< 1386374403 499072 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I think you sent me a message earlier... I may have intended to answer < 1386374441 388126 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was not important? < 1386374455 220857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what if you want rust not to do it < 1386374464 484083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo doubleplusunsafe { ... } < 1386374526 437988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs oerjan> @.* olsner < 1386374561 976610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :danger(10000) { ... } < 1386374574 32613 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32727 < 1386374603 720456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do badness(10000) { ... } < 1386374653 160555 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah! then I would guess "yes" < 1386374660 68019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pwned boxes < 1386374686 957067 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure how much asbestos contamination does to fireproof a spider < 1386374702 516325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: we are all doomed hth < 1386374856 49856 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hopefully only wales is doomed hth < 1386374891 805963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well as long as they cannot swim < 1386374914 895208 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. sure wales can swim < 1386375029 806287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to argue with a pun based on a misspelling. < 1386375359 93721 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they wash up on the beach they're property of the queen < 1386375396 535630 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386375403 781734 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1386375607 311003 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386375671 99175 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1386375685 953716 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1386375686 353725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so that's how england got wales in the first place? < 1386375700 862261 :ter2!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386375705 863506 :tertu!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1386375722 993967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1386375735 349926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx it all makes sense now < 1386376584 31416 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-85-23-163-172.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386376978 351428 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1386376981 118889 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386377728 124474 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386377802 767665 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386377874 243650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: hutenosa < 1386377874 634708 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​hutenosa < 1386377912 29044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ruddy < 1386377912 320742 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​hi hi < 1386377918 834330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: are you enjoying finnish independence day < 1386377919 613857 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​because i'm `thanks independence day also it's independence day < 1386377926 137311 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: have you declared yourself independent from finland < 1386377927 253988 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​i think that is true independent of number of cells < 1386377935 9659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: escargot < 1386377935 393861 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue what you mean. What do you think, fungot? < 1386377942 122946 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386378079 814134 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386378170 995900 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1386378389 337447 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.79.10.191 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1386378427 911726 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.176.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks independence day also it's independence day < 1386378429 209542 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, independence day also it's independence day. Thindependence day also it's independence day. < 1386378993 278097 :Halite!561ef8e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1386379186 65412 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no dramatic reading of the call of cthulhu for beginning readers on the internet < 1386379279 33128 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1386379316 450962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they keep mysteriously disappearing together with the readers < 1386379362 614153 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but I can find the *regular* version fine < 1386379366 444096 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want the seussized one < 1386379451 398513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just read through the iwc christmas comics hth http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/archive.html < 1386379486 259005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dec 24th) < 1386379518 759034 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :One cthulhu, two cthulhu, red cthulhu, blue cthulhu. < 1386379572 228938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason must be that dramatic readers who like to post stuff on internet don't like that book or do not know how to read it for some reason. Either that or they are hiding it. < 1386379624 170756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy independence day, nooodl < 1386379648 377729 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.176.123 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinterklaas "basically that" < 1386379677 707058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinterklaas = basically cthulhu < 1386380042 470537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? science < 1386380044 480705 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semi-automatic text generation. < 1386380055 31136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, that doesn't even backronym. < 1386380071 909529 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice that too. < 1386380105 852331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1386380107 756136 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1386380111 86149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1386380112 903602 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. < 1386380116 678442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ruddy < 1386380117 137745 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`? shachaf `? shachaf < 1386380118 290790 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1386380118 779349 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​HackEgo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1386380125 971275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ruddy < 1386380126 541920 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​hi hi < 1386380133 197861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: you show that bot! < 1386380134 511858 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​eille! no violence against my peaceful bot! < 1386380140 466535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy hi ruddy < 1386380141 76653 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​hi hi < 1386380146 966648 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop, ruddy, loop < 1386380147 511005 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​and in < 1386380147 845522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: today is the day i am going to sleep < 1386380151 175577 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​got to < 1386380159 966405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruddy: you gotta do what you gotta do < 1386380161 114517 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​gotta get < 1386380214 501516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "HackEgo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯" >wisdom/ruddy < 1386380215 550726 :ruddy!~ruddy@99-172-22-238.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`run echo < 1386380218 176833 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1386380357 177538 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386380485 410145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* int-e blames lambdabot <-- ok how did lambdabot get you here < 1386380526 97242 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386380605 594214 :Zuu_!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386380618 96173 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386380658 700740 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I looked at the list of channels that it joins automatically < 1386380679 290446 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1386380689 953948 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386380691 454266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish! < 1386380715 502417 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386380768 111611 :Zuu_!uzzuuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386380896 231908 :Zuu_!uzzuuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386380916 99442 :Zuu_!uzzuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386380942 388376 :Zuu_!uzzuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386380967 95516 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386381008 11186 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386381026 108334 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386381083 306310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu_: fix your connection thx < 1386381110 41452 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1386381198 160399 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: tis fine, i was just configuring something :/ < 1386381209 405729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good < 1386381227 756035 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some canonical algorithm for assigning binary codes to each node of a state diagram < 1386381256 534158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's called "counting" hth < 1386381291 689435 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that minimizes the logic < 1386381328 717774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1386381357 205745 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a circuit implementing the state diagram. < 1386381370 944525 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimizing hamming distance between connected nodes for instance < 1386381374 714319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an algorithm for minimizing the number of states iirc < 1386381382 424864 :Zuu_!nobody@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386381384 397574 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i mean < 1386381426 850453 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386381445 926477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds messy anyway. < 1386381473 589772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough that i expect the answer is "no" < 1386381510 190927 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are multiple constraints you could optimize for, like size of the state < 1386381541 102417 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1386381541 894387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it sounds like something NP-complete or worse. < 1386381569 126412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whatever algorithm you find won't be "canonical". < 1386381583 765307 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :size of state is easy, but I expect that often you'll want to use more bits than are strictly required, to encode some features of states. < 1386381587 42069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it happens to be for surprising reasons. < 1386381598 254270 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> it's a hard problem. < 1386381853 299846 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386381853 526423 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering this because my homework gave constraining hamming distance to one as a rule of thumb but also said it was usually impossible < 1386381856 475529 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :~engineering~ i guess < 1386381856 706623 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nice example of such features comes up when your automaton is the result of a powerset construction; it may be better to implement the nondeterministic automaton and use one bit per original state) < 1386381879 738224 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a powerset construction. < 1386381903 565573 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerset_construction < 1386382793 622311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386382913 608003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a 6502 code, if I have the accumulator being zero, what is an efficient way to make the zero flag cleared if some value in the zero-page is zero, and set if it is nonzero? < 1386383164 856410 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what instructions alter the zero flag again < 1386383241 78475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loads, transfers, arithmetic. < 1386383307 820256 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADC, AND, ASL, BIT, CMP, CPX, CPY, DEC, DEX, DEY, EOR, INC, INX, INY, LDA, LDX, LDY, LSR, ORA, PLP, ROL, ROR, SBC, TAX, TAY, TSX, TXA, TXS, TYA. < 1386383340 708639 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads huh < 1386383370 590204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously LDA whatever gives the opposite flag setting of what you want < 1386383387 475954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I can see that < 1386383436 926418 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, no xor < 1386383442 278123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: EOR < 1386383469 262815 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has everyone used the 6502... < 1386383484 21784 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i have no idea. < 1386383512 222718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :way back. although the manual for the assembly was missing instructions... < 1386383530 66205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what's PLP < 1386383537 953845 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if just pushing the flags onto the stack and then testing the zero flag with BIT or AND, would be best way. < 1386383545 31588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The opposite of PHP. < 1386383547 567785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HTH) < 1386383551 338018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: PLP is pop flags from stack < 1386383552 678256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: THX < 1386383566 921765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1386383724 739436 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey zzo38, i'm planning on making some CPUs with my FPGA. do you have any fun ISAs to recommend < 1386383754 587092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: imo make mmix < 1386383768 486327 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that would make sense < 1386383792 129930 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i don't remember anything about it other than that it drops the crazy decimal stuff and has a zillion registers. < 1386383945 16555 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386383984 681045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, MMIX is one possibility; GCC supports it, even. < 1386384014 740910 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not actually sure how i should go about getting code onto the thing, there's no serial port. guess i'll have to get another cable and figure out uart < 1386384072 563291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also try 6502 if you want to program it in assembly language (and if it is the variant used in the Famicom, then there is no decimal arithmetic either) < 1386384127 647521 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :any more esoteric ideas? < 1386384143 208900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo make your own isa < 1386384148 920600 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1386384149 576079 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of trying imlementing the processor from 'lambda the ultimate opcode'. no alu < 1386384152 957076 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :himc < 1386384937 771384 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there was an asynchronous RISC called "AMULET", i'm thinking of finding some specs < 1386384949 322830 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1386387009 178345 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess to formalize a statement like "C is Turing complete" you would talk about a family of languages C_i where sizeof(void *) = i, and require that the languages have a uniform description < 1386387013 227652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think that doesn't work < 1386387039 142703 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because any given TM (that you would try to implement in C_i for some i) can take arbitrarily large inputs and use arbitrarily much tape, even a vastly more than superexponential function of the input length < 1386387086 633033 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :intptr_t rather puts a damper on things, eh < 1386387119 937091 :tertu3!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386387130 461799 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if a "char" cell can contain an arbitrary integer, and it is C89 rather than C99? < 1386387148 98534 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you have a C where malloc never fails and just keeps giving you new pointers < 1386387210 229578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's the relevant difference between C89 and C99? < 1386387254 366281 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think C99 defines a lot of stuff that tells you how many bits everything is, isn't it? < 1386387285 43641 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c89 doesn't have char_bit? < 1386387326 852220 :ter2!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1386388587 953532 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1386388595 404876 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386389373 144865 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1386389383 295102 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386389690 107325 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1386389753 245494 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386390453 540074 :Sorella!~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386391562 801854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an editor for 6502 assembly language files (even if the file includes macros and other stuff) that will also display the generated hex codes and the bytes and cycles of each line, and the bytes and cycles of any highlighted block, and the addresses, etc? < 1386391796 288042 :Slereah_!~jackal@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386391813 461863 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386392333 14629 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.138.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386392511 465159 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.176.123 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1386392927 364261 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slashdot.org/story/13/11/06/1323223/mozilla-backtracks-on-third-party-cookie-blocking < 1386392934 781182 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said as though third-party cookies are evil < 1386392936 819771 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1386392957 467848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are? < 1386392962 720251 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be < 1386393073 463022 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i would be happier if i hung out in a channel where when people said stuff like that they were talking about politics or such < 1386393099 763355 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have legitimate use cases for third-party cookies :/ < 1386393111 534202 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-advertising uses, I mean) < 1386393121 858146 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :14i have legitimate use cases for mah diiiiick < 1386393319 479665 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/ < 1386393439 573885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1386394392 4841 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386394508 986645 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386396274 200506 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ^5 < 1386396763 828272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see what Famicom Z-machine programming I have made up so far? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Famicom_Z-machine < 1386396803 207483 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386396855 262220 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i don't know this notation. does it mean that you as well have legitimate use cases for mah dick < 1386396910 355435 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "high five" < 1386396915 422729 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, kinda? < 1386396975 4713 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386396986 329647 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1386397027 231966 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386397054 526423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :diiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiickdiiiiick < 1386397058 992327 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386397098 821682 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why did you choose famicom as the machine you want to develop this for < 1386397144 365995 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice kmc < 1386397384 149779 :SingingBoyo!~kvirc@154.5.185.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386397389 777017 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1386397420 621256 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It is one computer that doesn't have Z-machine interpreter on it, is one reason. < 1386397441 232468 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you think every computer should be able to interpret Z-machine? < 1386397540 149585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 it looks like James Parsons has decided not to make a FLARP! language, you should delete the page. < 1386397540 338621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1386397614 677985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: It may be intended. Infocom didn't do it since Famicom is by Nintendo of Japanese, but now other people can make it too. Also, to practice to write such programs. < 1386397662 637416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what other kinds of programs like that do you plan on writing in the future < 1386397730 901921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I am not exactly sure by now. < 1386397746 742258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find any mistakes in this program or any other comment/questions? < 1386398159 153017 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have the assembler or the emulator or test programs. in short, i am a poor alpha tester. sorry. < 1386398201 426448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't complete enough for testing the program; I mean if you noticed anything wrong with the program just by looking at it. < 1386398285 404075 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope! i < 1386398292 170180 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not smart enough to do that either < 1386398410 492061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about Z-machine programming, Famicom programming, and/or 6502 programming? < 1386398428 128978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE < 1386398447 937812 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've found yourself a very esoteric niche < 1386398468 219412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wiki contains a lot of information about programming NES and Famicom. < 1386398491 442787 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and other related systems, such as Vs.Unisystem) < 1386398661 998910 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing a bit unusual about this Z-machine interpreter is that several things are decided at compile-time; this may make the program more efficient in some ways. < 1386398988 756563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CPU chip used in that computer is the 2A03, which contains two cores which is the CPU core and APU core. The CPU core is a 6502 but with BCD arithmetic disabled (the logic is still there, it is just disconnected from the rest of the circuit). the APU core is used for audio (two square waves, one triangle wave, one noise, one DPCM) but also I/O ports and a DMA transfer. < 1386399011 364476 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the apu controlled < 1386399038 714710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The APU is controlled by memory-mapped registers $4000-$4020. < 1386399183 825640 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address of the DMA transfer is hard-coded and cannot be changed; you can change the source address to any 256-byte boundary, and when activated it reads the data from all 256 addresses in that page and writes the results all to a single address (not to 256 separate addresses). < 1386399509 971866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why disable BCD < 1386399527 596946 :tertu3!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net NICK :tertu < 1386399564 183616 :tertu!~tertu@65-128-138-136.mpls.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't most z-machine games expect a somewhat wider screen than the famicom has < 1386399665 461565 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tertu: Yes, but I do with what we have. (Also, this program is only version 1 to 3 Z-machine) < 1386399723 30139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Z-machine480.jpg < 1386399742 253784 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc wasn't the bcd part of the chip still on it, just with the wires cut so you couldn't access it < 1386399754 388333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, it is like that. < 1386399803 736194 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why tho < 1386399851 763445 :L8D!~seed@99-156-81-149.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1386399889 553273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to overscan, the visible area is only 30x26, but if no words are longer than 30 then it would fit. However you probably will need to scroll the screen a lot. < 1386400047 766395 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for simplicity, everything is displayed in uppercase (which is OK in version 1-3 only, as long as it can be distinguished internally in all cases that matter) < 1386400190 712686 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1386400257 862109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Apparently due to patents on the 6502 CPU design. < 1386400296 30937 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386400404 152727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, it doesn't implement the status line (there is a bit in the header to indicate this), and the SPLIT and SCREEN operations are not supported (there is also the bit in the header to indicate this too). < 1386400608 22678 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.138.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386401910 764410 :^v!~NotPing@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386401969 669026 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1386403288 955411 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386403430 415850 :upgrayeddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pogozqnqbtwnqlci JOIN :#esoteric < 1386405343 94533 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: heh < 1386410070 663989 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1386411555 137787 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386411643 920316 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386413367 908656 :Sorella!~quildreen@201.80.214.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386413400 331660 :Sorella!~quildreen@201.80.214.167 QUIT :Changing host < 1386413400 523558 :Sorella!~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1386414304 23133 :SingingBoyo!~kvirc@154.5.185.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1386414878 176095 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386416646 21177 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1386418307 805644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, there's really no NES Z-machine interpreter? That is quite surprising. < 1386418846 996724 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386418903 906782 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1386419411 982940 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.138.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386419702 731732 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there is < 1386419705 724604 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere < 1386420036 759364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386420189 400451 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric : x - y = < 1386420194 684200 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, oops < 1386422175 151085 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1386422442 635964 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.138.249 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1386422463 884866 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.138.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386424976 256798 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.71 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1386425125 948556 :L8D!~seed@99-156-81-149.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386425366 691222 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1386425405 309469 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386426264 160769 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1386427183 813769 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@vpn35-003.rz.hs-offenburg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1386430963 22046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here have advice on how to read a line from a file without using stdio? < 1386431029 119014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I can think of a few ways, was wondering what the best way is < 1386431038 20580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte-at-a-time is pretty slow, I'd hope to avoid that < 1386431115 117779 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1386431129 625923 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ok to read more than the first line? can you seek? < 1386431147 179407 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386431158 383086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I can seek, and I can over-read < 1386431174 13314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have an advisory read lock on the file and everything that touches the file respects advisory locks < 1386431181 344772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can guarantee it won't change while I'm reading < 1386431184 341893 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how about mmap and strchr/memchr? < 1386431199 132628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I hadn't thought of that at all < 1386431207 480929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, this should work on Windows too < 1386431218 319387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there's some sort of compatibility layer somewhere translating lseek, read, etc < 1386431227 349048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it almost certainly doesn't translate mmap < 1386431252 303155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 934 < 1386431256 21697 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 934: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly < 1386431316 44826 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows certainly can mmap files, but it probably doesn't have a function called mmap < 1386431335 587122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not a case of "can Windows do that", but "can I do that without writing a bunch of Windows-specific code" < 1386431448 990709 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why can't you just use stdio though? (not that stdio has a portable and safe getline function that I know of) < 1386431527 527740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: because there's a huge amount of jumping around seeking and locking and unlocking and so on, stdio buffering would screw this up < 1386431681 713297 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read into a growing buffer and stop when strchr('\n') isn't -1. < 1386431780 391792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what I was planning < 1386432024 434935 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, surely fgets on Windows has correct behavior? < 1386432043 119890 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, without using stdio. < 1386432044 438345 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk. < 1386432051 666616 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, reimplementing stdio for no good reason. < 1386432076 460146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yeah, pretty much < 1386432094 458681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, "reimplementing stdio because it doesn't like files unexpectedly shrinking while you're writing to them" < 1386432127 330424 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks for a second... < 1386432146 197164 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a file unexpectedly shrinks while you're writing to it, stdio's correct behavior should be to re-expand the file with zeroes. < 1386432148 908445 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you seeing? < 1386432187 224514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: re-expanding the file with zeroes < 1386432202 746389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the behaviour that I /want/ is to abort the write < 1386432205 306842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies no buffering < 1386432213 890836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need to know what has and hasn't been written at any given point < 1386432495 579763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put it this way: the previous code used stdio, it kept failing in bizarre ways because trying to keep track of buffering on top of everything else was just too much < 1386433151 44536 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the halting problem imply, that there actually is a program where it is undecidable if it halts or not? < 1386433160 539671 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it just state, that no algorithm can decide it < 1386433187 668720 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are those statements equivalent? < 1386433304 260007 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually one proofs that for any would be decision procedure for the halting program there is some input which it gets wrong (either giving a wrong answer or failing to terminate). < 1386433308 482642 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proves < 1386433392 291092 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: In a sense, whether those statements are equivalent is philosophical. If you believe that humans are super-Turing, then they're not. If humans are not super-Turing, then they are. < 1386433487 449636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: Gödel's Theorem actually does explicitly construct an undecidable program < 1386434234 158742 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm searching for a proof of the halting problem that is actually understandable :) < 1386434243 72849 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since like 6 years < 1386434247 672698 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't found a single one < 1386434316 549935 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones that don't make use of crazy math feed the program to itself < 1386434318 100029 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uhm < 1386434359 48480 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(Q,x) halts, if Q(x) does not and does not halt, if Q(x) halts < 1386434369 740910 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then L(L,L) and stuff goes boom < 1386434388 162510 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my brain just keeps yelling: How the fuck would that work < 1386434414 122968 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1386434418 938232 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the problem with it < 1386434421 934716 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1386434429 943269 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if L(L) halts, L(L) does not halt < 1386434433 20415 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :L computes whether Q halts for Input X < 1386434437 706243 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1386434451 900378 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so L(L,L) computes whether L(L) halts < 1386434461 381722 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1386434464 904227 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the input of the second L? < 1386434498 913788 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second L is actually the description of L < 1386434506 178630 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does not need any input < 1386434580 721922 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. But what are you actually deciding then? < 1386434599 153525 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming f(x) is a function < 1386434615 341367 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(Q,x) should test whether Q(x,x) halts. < 1386434616 321306 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and L(f,x) tries to state whether f(x) can actually be computed < 1386434638 377102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then L(L,L) does test termination of L(L,L) and all works out as claimed. < 1386434641 240434 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it computes L(f,f) < 1386434643 931251 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is f(f) < 1386434647 332343 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that don't make sense < 1386434684 985984 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1386434702 164755 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386434713 813184 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not actually f(f), it is more like f(written down definition of f) < 1386434732 36787 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i.e. gödel number or the like < 1386434735 644883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the "how do you write down the definition of f" is the main mathematical content of the proof < 1386434736 836326 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that definition is supposed to be < 1386434739 807101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else is pretty trivial < 1386434747 977500 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition does not have any input < 1386434766 504169 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the defintion is just a number or a string or whatever < 1386434775 47740 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for what input are you actually trying to calculate whether it halts or not < 1386434776 785282 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as such does not need any kind of input < 1386434826 221998 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at L(Q,x) you test Q with input x,x as int-e stated < 1386434836 769510 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will never ever come to f(f) there < 1386434856 162497 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1386434861 92442 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(L,L) computes L(L,L) < 1386434868 685646 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and inverts it < 1386434875 645827 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(doesn't it?) < 1386434880 47277 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1386434895 27279 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if L(L,L) halts, L(L,L) does not halt < 1386434901 96416 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, L cannot exist < 1386434920 162455 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if L is like universes in type theory? < 1386434960 826590 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you would actually have L_i(L_i-1,L_i-1) < 1386434967 111126 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that would help < 1386434967 722997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh… actually what I really want is a scanf that gives pointers into the original string and decodes base 64 and decompresses zlib < 1386435008 9127 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I assume that there are two turing machines that are able to decide the halting problem < 1386435010 370727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, no < 1386435015 200814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what i Want < 1386435016 959210 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(Q,x) and G(Q,x) < 1386435017 861952 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What you actually want is a program that writes all your software for you, as you want it < 1386435024 669408 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you don't know how you want it < 1386435025 404765 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do L(G,G) and G(L,L) < 1386435028 511004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yeah, that'd be nice, but it'd take too long to impl < 1386435053 268217 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you wouldn't be the one to impl it < 1386435055 936390 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(L,L) won't work < 1386435057 855546 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd already be impld < 1386435067 976160 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe L(G,G)? < 1386435085 415445 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(G,G) would by definition be G(G,G) < 1386435109 124440 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1386435152 513229 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :L(G,L) would be G(L,L) would be L(L,L) < 1386435196 460767 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: you can play such tricks, but you need more arguments, L(G,L) and G(G,L), where L(G,L) tests whether G(G,L) terminates and G(G,L) tests where L(G,L) terminates. < 1386435239 611268 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these things become tedious soon. < 1386435343 272147 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386437233 116190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1386437893 171587 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Z6Z4ZT3b <- you can also argue that way < 1386437906 433691 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it leaves unclear whether P(i) actually exists or not < 1386437933 452266 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we know, that if it does, that no program can decide that stuff < 1386438070 845236 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i put something undecideable into something that does decides everything, therefore it can't exists" sounds pretty strange < 1386438394 505353 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386438497 35613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elan's dad is starting to get annoying. < 1386438607 936264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you managed to make an `olist that wasn't duplicate, this is _highly_ irregular hth < 1386438675 918040 :SingingBoyo!~kvirc@154.5.185.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386438705 52692 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily they seem to be on their way of his subplot < 1386438707 39557 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1386438717 3527 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of/away from/ < 1386438724 741149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: um did you even _read_ today's update. < 1386438746 59755 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeees < 1386438754 33278 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we'll see < 1386438756 85277 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you reading? < 1386438765 386257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :order of the stick < 1386438770 828095 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1386438871 790197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bookmark on #726, haven't read it since. < 1386438974 961835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the forum thread was only at 4 pages, and I'd checked like half an hour before < 1386439272 536257 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : but what's the input of the second L? <-- i think you are a bit confused. L should only take one argument, and L(Q) should decide whether Q(Q) halts. < 1386439324 599178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and do the opposite.) < 1386439364 564888 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1386439370 269704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the initially assumed halting function which takes two arguments, not L. < 1386439469 478221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite possible your source was confused about this, wouldn't be the first time. < 1386440028 36196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What if L is like universes in type theory? <-- then you get lots of nice proofs about separation in complexity hierarchies. < 1386440041 953374 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys < 1386440046 358240 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to ask a question < 1386440049 631970 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I forget what it is < 1386440058 123100 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we find my question using some sort of programming trick < 1386440068 418254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good, as i should be leaving now. < 1386440071 531223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1386440088 695347 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And of course you always need a higher hierarchy to prove something about the one right below < 1386440258 228637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :found on Reddit: someone's trying to translate Haskell's Prelude into pure GNU Make (i.e. no shelling out or scripting): https://github.com/PiPeep/prelude.mk/blob/master/prelude.mk < 1386440286 56858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems pretty partial atm < 1386440438 699164 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1386440461 772716 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, that is rather incomplete < 1386440498 450609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1386440504 458112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably upvote it if it were more complete < 1386440519 759506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how does PiPeep plan to handle lists of lists, for instance? < 1386441375 903029 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1386441499 765363 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1386441579 44636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386441786 944205 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-218.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386443822 780235 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1386444367 43942 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386444756 2394 :^v!~NotPing@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386445418 252451 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386445500 686039 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-218.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1386445911 89752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1386445978 889843 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386446634 765865 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language that is directly based on set theory? < 1386446649 6733 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP is pretty close but it is not really < 1386446663 698504 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are a lot of languages based on axiomatic systems < 1386446672 761988 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't think of any from ZFC < 1386446767 170247 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most sets being unrepresentable doesn't hel. < 1386446768 176542 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :p < 1386446823 632566 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well all sets are representable in ZF-NC < 1386446867 872714 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But well, µ-recursive functions are based on some axiomatic system of integers < 1386446878 354071 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical combinators as well, and lambda calculus < 1386446889 370333 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm wondering if there's any for some flavor of set theory < 1386446911 899801 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice#Statements_consistent_with_the_negation_of_AC iunno < 1386447024 226999 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1386447062 631646 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think constructive set theory requires both the negation of choice and of the excluded middle < 1386447064 796867 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zfc isn't constructive, i guess is what i mean. < 1386447144 752756 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/set-theory-constructive/ oh good. < 1386447177 238707 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386447208 45375 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people feel strongly about axiomatic systems, which I always find weird < 1386447220 262408 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like one of them is truer than another < 1386447228 286338 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason I shouldn't treat Red Bull as slightly weaker coffee that tastes much, much better? < 1386447249 741908 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that, actually < 1386447250 879782 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1386447256 474549 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redbull has a Stigma < 1386447273 612825 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People basically seem to treat it like DRUUUUGS < 1386447281 985378 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the taurine is kind of a boogey man < 1386447284 328901 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 JOIN :#esoteric < 1386447297 821558 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the taurine even do anything? Also, I treat coffee as a drug, so < 1386447313 937080 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drink coffee to get a specific effect < 1386447317 645255 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a clue < 1386447383 61734 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a drug. < 1386447404 703592 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I want something that has the taste of Red Bull without the caffeine, so I could drink it constantly without using it in drug mode. Technically still a drug I guess, but less dangerous to overconsume < 1386447431 180384 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I mean drug as in < 1386447433 988935 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social stigma < 1386447704 762741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always assumed Red Bull was stronger than either < 1386447713 93065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, than coffee < 1386447715 241268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't drink either < 1386447735 445856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, I haven't drunk caffeinated drinks for like 8 years now) < 1386447750 13281 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1386447771 648983 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Redbull has about the same amount of caffeine as regular coffee < 1386447794 494654 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to tea & occasional soft drinks < 1386447813 677650 :Slereah!~jackal@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick with heroine < 1386448397 359618 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here have experience with Forth? < 1386448410 748573 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some < 1386448440 894544 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am building a microcomputer based on an eZ8 microcontroller and I have to decide what it boots into < 1386448453 77613 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were thinking about Forth. < 1386448469 182437 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the moment I just have this shell from which you can run programs: < 1386448538 217387 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DyPKRJV9PI&feature=player_embedded < 1386448556 956570 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an old version of the current firmwae < 1386448559 788711 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*firmware < 1386448652 109429 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1386449519 124738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keoni29: yeah, Forth seems vaguely appropriate for that < 1386449532 397790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its main uses are as a bootstrap language, and on embedded systems, and for making DSLs < 1386449540 690325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your use seems to fit into two out of three of those categories < 1386449851 981682 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 254 seconds < 1386449859 658066 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already wrote routines for comparing strings with a list of tokens < 1386449872 253588 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So writing an interpreter would not be a huge deal < 1386449884 391996 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.114.102.71 QUIT :Quit: http://corewar.co.uk < 1386449889 84407 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all written in Z8 assembler < 1386449896 110642 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one of the people at my university seems to know you from b nomic < 1386450328 388981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hmm, interesting < 1386450332 692126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there aren't that many B players < 1386450341 291706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's their name? or do you have a reason to keep it secret? < 1386450383 392824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, considering the list of people who would say B rather than Agora < 1386450386 308349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very short list indeed < 1386451275 625696 :keoni29!53809983@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.153.131 QUIT :Quit: Omnimaga.org < 1386451742 461073 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, jameseb < 1386451799 675080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, must be James Baxter < 1386451834 695096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've only posted to B 6 times, I had to search to see who it was < 1386451840 944780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm impressed that they can remember who I am < 1386451900 103032 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he said that he had a debate with you on an interpretation of a rule? < 1386452087 656008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happens a lot in nomics < 1386452141 142268 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I suppose < 1386452153 140370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1386452162 329302 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the only thing that happens in nomics? < 1386452172 102981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well atm, nothing happens at all :-( < 1386452178 704387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: anything can happen in a nomic < 1386452180 616154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should see BlogNomic for a nomic that's normally based on using the rules < 1386452184 919263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than debating over them < 1386452203 494280 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-174-63-103-117.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386452443 665038 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1386452449 476379 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone is trying to log in as me on IRC < 1386452457 505910 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sock em < 1386452478 78401 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not succeeding < 1386452484 613252 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure that I am actually me < 1386452503 705644 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sock yourself just to be sure. < 1386452597 155564 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1386452614 923241 :L8D!~seed@99-156-81-149.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1386452706 93437 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@vpn35-003.rz.hs-offenburg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1386452731 306856 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-218.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1386453123 203699 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no, it's just that temple ghosts often have your name < 1386453161 763351 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had that happen to me occasionally < 1386453171 528852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: temple? I thought it was a 1 in 7 chance for ghosts generally < 1386453183 966727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or have I got the context completely wrong?) < 1386453201 648115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember because I refactored that code earlier today due to making the player's name not a global variable < 1386453208 155044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yesterday, probably < 1386453210 636030 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno, possible, I just spend lots of time in temples going in and out and get free ghosts for it < 1386453212 827498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this morning < 1386453218 828490 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't meet many ghosts in other places < 1386453222 478410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why? is this some new farming method I've never heard of? < 1386453238 977515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just that I have to leave and enter the temple for other reasons < 1386453245 456720 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ghosts themselves are useless < 1386453251 442999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but why did you kill the priest? for conversion purposes? < 1386453289 495194 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't kill her! I was trying to save her! It was an accident and nothing to do with me! < 1386453298 363983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not responsible for where dragons breathe! < 1386453350 565865 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a mistake to kill her so early, I should have donated more to her and THEN kill and sacrifice her < 1386453377 825812 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-218.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1386453424 338763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're going to blame it on me, in 3.4.3 the dragon would have ripped her apart with tooth and claw rather than using the breath attack < 1386453426 446275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :two mistakes, because I killed both the minetown priest and the dlvl15 priest too early, but at least the dlvl15 priest was totally necessary eventually because she was cross-aligned < 1386453441 608706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have the Valley priest left < 1386453444 379864 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1386453459 660837 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll kill her only right before the asc run < 1386453461 188430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder what happens if you StF a statue of a priest in the Orcustown temple < 1386453473 651864 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have donated all the gold to all three priests < 1386453481 546673 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I messed it up, I can get the value of my gold only once now < 1386453484 737040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this playstyle is alien to me, I typically don't kill priests < 1386453492 873312 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I'm chaotic < 1386453497 818808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1386453503 616488 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, um, can we move to #nethack4? < 1386453503 818688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm (almost always) lawful < 1386453517 83474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the discussion's only funny /because/ it's in the wrong channel < 1386453521 64334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you like < 1386453555 626532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was way better before you managed to mention what the context was < 1386453586 236040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I know < 1386454255 612270 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote context < 1386454257 493959 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :112) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 715) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /th < 1386454436 757155 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi. got anything interesting in the works < 1386454510 175988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I wanted to get a NetHack 4 release out by tomorrow < 1386454514 44619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no way it's going to be ready on time < 1386454519 543403 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad day < 1386454526 506711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I recruit the entire population of people who are familiar with the codebase to help out, and probably not even then < 1386454551 434965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why tomorrow? < 1386454552 474619 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 715 < 1386454553 857509 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :715) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context < 1386454564 889963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 10th anniversary of NetHack 3.4.3 < 1386454570 644073 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should get zzo38 to make nethack 4 for famicom :D < 1386454590 695624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe aim for Apr 1. < 1386454624 359555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I actually joked about NetHack for NES in the release message last April 1, although I wasn't thinking about zzo38 at the time < 1386454629 334615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying to find a platform that it obviously didn't wok on < 1386454633 93246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work on < 1386454854 680102 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is nethack? how hard could it be? < 1386454897 520152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: counting now < 1386454974 364794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack 3.4.3 is 206429 lines for the entire distribution; NetHack 4 (latest development version) is 150529 < 1386454996 943182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly due to a lot of refactoring, partly due to dropping support for various obscure platforms < 1386455121 670178 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently cartridges ranged up to 1MB, so it should be reasonably possible < 1386455159 629980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I remember, it's impossible to fit the NetHack binaries and a save file onto the same (1.44MB) floppy disk < 1386455218 283706 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you make a ridiculously NES-optimized version < 1386455228 856249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me personally? probably not < 1386455233 875784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, it might be possible < 1386455245 493964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could start with 3.1 or so and then turn all the optional features off, that'd help a bit < 1386455315 502501 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I just realised that if homeopathy actually worked I'd be immune to caffeine by now < 1386455457 684045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if homeopathy worked then all the world's oceans would be incredibly powerful medicine < 1386455605 175213 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strongest shark poop solution in history < 1386455687 27273 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't drink water. Fish fuck in it." < 1386455737 519375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I drink water. Sometimes I get thirsty." < 1386455765 334512 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot more than fish fuck in it if you know what i mean *seductive wink* < 1386455874 14439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think i could manage that < 1386455896 53595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1386455898 82119 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying i'm going to fuck a jellyfish < 1386456047 46508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like water < 1386456070 918774 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's so easy? < 1386456074 428261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i've been drinking lots of non-water things for the past few months < 1386456082 965045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(double entendre on the word "easy") < 1386456083 157017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, yes, it's so easy < 1386456106 92994 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: which things have you been drinking? < 1386456137 684316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think mostly various things that claim to be tea < 1386456186 89693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should drink proper tea, though < 1386456199 146166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe become a tea snob < 1386456212 960538 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: don't fuck a cuttle fish tho < 1386456229 368876 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :YR NOSE MIGHT GET PREEEEEGNANT < 1386456241 321478 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: cuddle a cuddlefish tho < 1386456250 116619 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will < 1386456259 695044 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it will probably vomit up ink and mucus on me < 1386456266 886898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so cute < 1386456279 993936 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :small price to pay i suppose < 1386456281 305026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a cuddlefish a thing < 1386456304 58203 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yup < 1386456318 277574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i be a cuddlefish when i grow up < 1386456329 376771 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't live long enough to use their smart brains :/ < 1386456331 822243 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you already one < 1386456347 683603 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't live long enough to use my smart brain either :( < 1386456361 839656 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you mean how they have brains that are bigger than their bodies, including their brains? < 1386456380 831075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone live long enough to use their smart brains < 1386456395 352225 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a paleontologist posted that video yesterday. it made me happy < 1386456402 985125 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that note, does anyone know how to use pietcreator? < 1386456625 922529 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1386456729 943977 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuddlefish have three hearts < 1386456831 768151 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtu.be/1bmrm_8Y9Bc < 1386456933 67396 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit i'm confused tooo help < 1386456948 158858 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/Janiczek/7849921 < 1386456951 344323 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1386457139 282866 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1386457213 131015 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start with the infinite radical set equal to zero you get the same value of x. < 1386457223 112999 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm guessing the substitution is somehow invalid. < 1386457297 121124 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if there's no value of x that makes the radical 1, or somethin < 1386457372 555071 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1386457378 903591 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance =1 < 1386457431 636133 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nahhhhhh < 1386457564 133536 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what are you talking about, if x equals one than the substitution gives the square root of two. < 1386457675 929552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm full of shit < 1386457682 95121 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sequence converges to phi < 1386457683 450985 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might wanna get that checked out < 1386457699 305496 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it converge to phi < 1386457738 588982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as "How can you get 1 from nested square roots of 0? < 1386457738 778030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing accumulating that would converge to a limit or something..." you're not taking a limit here < 1386457742 799178 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can call the problem √(x+y) = y, in which case you end up with x = y² - y, and again y = 0 and y = 1 have the same value for x, so like whatever man. < 1386457765 240494 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1386457766 261520 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1386457774 409319 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a familiar quadratic < 1386457782 722404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you replace x with y < 1386457799 762973 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is phi (and the other negative one, eta or w/e) < 1386457806 296871 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1386457807 384989 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1386457809 113074 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1386457812 157894 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace with 1 < 1386457814 866826 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1386457963 728378 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can't you make √x, √(x+√x), √(x+√(x+√x)) bla bla an actual series somehow < 1386458007 364815 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but there's nothing saying the limit of that series will be the same as whatever you get by twiddling the infinite expression < 1386458041 587972 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1386458163 885608 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1386458214 521683 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to enter one of the BBC's quiz shows for some reason < 1386458547 165561 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: which kind of quiz show? < 1386458558 860818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weakest link? < 1386458733 680351 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1386458758 101012 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost learned why φ is good for integer hashing but didn't learn really :/ < 1386458758 686710 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://brpreiss.com/books/opus4/html/page214.html < 1386458793 99957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1386459217 981284 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I was thinking more Only Connect < 1386459356 490372 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1386459358 676631 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :weakest link < 1386459360 692274 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it Taneb < 1386459406 427399 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dragons' Den < 1386459420 749193 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, they aren't auditioning for Weakest Link! < 1386459424 921501 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do both < 1386459459 453991 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1386459567 967299 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1386459606 294860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, the apprentice! < 1386459661 562026 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no < 1386459671 331680 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d JOIN :#esoteric < 1386459696 939101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, yes (ok no you're not enough of a twat to go on the apprentice) < 1386459719 844784 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.126 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also they aren't auditioning for it at the moment) < 1386459732 308578 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the apprentice is the show where that one rich douche yells at you right < 1386459746 429641 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna say tom cruise but that's not him < 1386459780 734592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :donald trump? < 1386459797 308646 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eah that one. < 1386459852 219118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something which is like hackathons but instead of pretending to make something useful, you just see who can write the fastest HTTP server or w/e in 24 hours < 1386459908 383272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would not think tom cruise and donald trump were very confusable < 1386459939 186707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i mainly just know what they look like. < 1386459969 718019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is thinking of alan sugar, presumably < 1386460065 591144 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just another face of the platonic rich douche in the heavens < 1386460490 811097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1386460656 297398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, it retains some entertainment value in that the people he's yelling at are deliberately selected to be wannabe rich douches who are completely unbearable, but it still wears thin fast. < 1386460715 696909 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just sounds really sad. < 1386460719 153945 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds