00:00:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 00:14:20 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 00:17:55 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:18:26 Well, I did dig out that it's an alignment issue, because aligning a (manually positioned) buffer it sticks in memory on an 8-byte boundary fixes the thing. AIUI, they've had quite a lot of those. (But the test fails even when DOUBLE_MODE=1, which should be the default.) 00:20:17 Due to the ordinary angels in a Dungeons&Dragons game are they don't particularly like it much, and isn't very applicable to Gxxyuxihuvxi religion, I make up new ideas about "celestials of Gxxyuxihuvxi" they are different (still Outsider) creatures, which are difference from others including they have no mouth or hand or feet, but does have shiny bright wings similar to insects wings, various eyes, tentacles, and spikes, and two antennas. They have 00:29:37 zzo38: i am reminded of the cherubs in narbonic here: http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic/series.php?view=archive&chapter=10298 00:30:27 (best view in the second to last strip) 00:31:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:33:39 also the main picture here http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurAngelsAreDifferent 00:35:00 PSA: European Collective Time Travel in 26 Minutes 00:35:21 Why not 25 minutes? 00:35:40 because i didn't notice the time changing just before pressing return. 00:37:13 I am not describing angels. 00:37:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:38:00 well no, but i'm saying your description still is close to some stuff i've seen called angels 00:38:54 the tvtropes page is going on about angels not needing to look human, of course. 00:39:55 Ah. OK, so that is how you meant 00:42:47 i want to say i saw cherubs with eyes before narbonic but i don't remember where 00:45:56 well, maimonides said that the ability of zygotes to form organs were cherubim, apparently. 00:47:13 I really should go ahead and write code that works with er/ir macros but not syntax-case, and code that works with syntax-case but not er/ir macros 00:47:21 I mean, not translatable easily between them 00:47:43 But for the Chicken Scheme code, I need to get emacs working in order for me to stay sane :/ 00:47:49 Sgeo: Yes do that if it can show the difference between them, and possibly if they both have use to do otherwise 00:47:56 -!- Oj742 has joined. 00:48:04 The difference, as I currently understand it: 00:48:09 what does that even have to do with the merkabah 00:48:14 er/ir allows you to only access the 'outermost' context and the macro's own context, and syntax-case lets you access your own context as well as any context of the input form, but you can't say just 'outermost context' 00:48:34 I also include other things: It cannot live in material plane for more than fifty hours at a time, unless there is a special blessing to do so. Two kind of eye beams are heal beam and confuse beam, and one other magical ability is to borrow some skills and intelligence points of someone they have grappled, for exactly 24 hours (after that it is reset). 00:49:34 (In anti-magic such effects are unusable but can continue; illuminated wings remain illuminated too. In anti-magic only physical attacks are usable, and from what I can tell there are only two: spikes and tentacles.) 00:49:43 what the hell is a context 00:50:21 O, I forgot one more magic ability which is "aura of righteousness of holiness" is a continuous ability. 00:50:41 Speaking about lexical contexts 00:50:54 Although in the case of er/ir macros, they don't physically exist, I think 00:50:57 Just conceptually 00:52:19 uhhuh. 00:53:00 Bike: ir macros are beautiful, you should learn them 00:53:23 Although I think they're limited in some ways, but still trying to wrap my mind around how 00:53:28 PSA: European Collective Time Travel in 8 Minutes 00:53:31 Bike: have you learned lenses yet 00:53:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:53:44 i seem to be having an off-by-one error. 00:54:32 http://wiki.call-cc.org/explicit-renaming-macros 00:54:46 I love ir macros, they're so easy 00:54:47 >.> 00:55:01 Sgeo........................ 00:55:34 shachaf..................... 00:55:46 oerjan: imo who cares about european time anyway 00:55:47 the meme is not dead that can eternal lie 00:56:12 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:56:33 hi mnoqy 01:00:09 hello past non-europeans! 01:00:10 fungot: Did you feel some sort of a glitch there? 01:00:11 fizzie: 96. 154 minutes past bedtime. bye-bye. if you 01:00:23 I think the time warp may have confused fungot. 01:00:23 fizzie: that's about what i thought, but it did break when i used it to show the answer is " no" without any bad connotations but if you have a distaste for writing gross boilerplate code in c 01:00:35 help 01:00:37 fizzie: you mean more than usual? 01:00:37 what time is it 01:00:49 it 01:00:53 18 01:00:55 my fragile understanding of the hour has been shattered 01:00:55 's 2 AM 01:01:27 it's 1 am now, according to my phone 01:01:33 My opinion is that daylight saving time is a bad idea! 01:01:54 at least it is a popular opinion. 01:01:58 I think it's 3 AM. 01:02:15 oh dear we have been scattered all over the time stream 01:02:40 oerjan: having fun on your time-traveling peninsula? 01:02:42 at some point there was an attempt to put the uk permanently in summer time, and move actual summer time an hour further forward 01:02:51 In here where I am, daylight saving time is not changed back yet. 01:03:01 as is usual this was actually an insidious plot by the english to repress the scots, and was defeated accordingly 01:03:17 "dot: graph is too large for cairo-renderer bitmaps. Scaling by 0.027679 to fit" uh 01:03:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:44 that happens? 01:03:48 Also the end result was a 32767x15 file. 01:03:52 Since nobody will be here in Monday to watch Murdoch on TV, it means, that the VCR is set to record it and won't get mixed up due to daylight saving time, so it will work correctly. (However, even if it is changing, it might still work because this VCR has a setting for daylight saving time in it.) 01:03:57 i've seen dot graphs that crash my entire computer. 01:04:18 Yes, but this was supposed to be like the simplest thing ever. 01:04:46 the simplest thing ever: less common than you'd think! 01:05:12 I think they should fix it so that the clock is 12 PM when it is mean noon. 01:05:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:06:12 zzo38: I think 12AM should mean noon and 0AM should mean midnight 01:06:59 zzo38: do you logread!! 01:08:44 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (*.net *.split). 01:09:41 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 01:12:03 dst is scary 01:14:26 kills thousands of people every spring 01:14:33 zzo38 doesn't believe in useable transport time tables. 01:23:20 also, the electronic timetables in a train station I went to were showing that the trains which were scheduled at 13:40ish were late and expected to arrive at 02:08ish 01:23:55 oerjan: such considerations matter not before "fixing" things to be "more correct"! 01:24:01 not sure if it was a DST-related mistake, if one was 24 hours and the other was 12 hours, or if the machine incorrectly thought they were actually over 12 hours late 01:24:03 Bike: OKAY 01:24:28 * oerjan recalls he did once miss his train because of forgetting dst had started that day. 01:25:15 I tend only to use trains that come frequently enough that I can just pick the next train after I arrive, whenever that is 01:26:02 this was long distance, so only three times a day. 01:26:22 there's a channel for that 01:26:25 well i guess that's not really about distance. 01:26:37 shachaf: is there a pun here. 01:26:49 no 01:26:54 #cslounge-trains 01:27:18 i don't "do" puns 01:27:21 anymore 01:27:23 i'm retired 01:28:01 or as erdős would say, died 01:29:35 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 01:29:42 oerjan: Didn't he retire himself already? 01:31:34 fizzie: i think you are reversing the lingo. 01:32:16 erdős left, however. 01:32:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:11:10 -!- Oj742 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 02:13:01 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 02:13:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:15:01 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:15:21 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:53:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:54:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:54:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:55:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:56:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:56:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:59:24 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 02:59:38 -!- Bike has joined. 03:00:41 kmc: https://twitter.com/BiciChic/status/393831136029200384/photo/1 "Just so we're clear, this is why lots of people cycle in the Netherlands. Not because it's flat." 03:21:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:30:23 that's pretty sweet 03:34:18 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:35:58 oerjan: Wikipedia has articles for "posetal category" and "thin category" which seem to be about the same thing. 03:36:26 imo someone should mark them as duplicates or something. is there a way of doing that....... 03:42:37 there's a thing for marking that one should be merged into the other at least 03:44:22 "which one though" 03:44:38 one of them is more general because it's not restricted to small categories 03:45:10 mnoqy: do you know about heyting algebras and things 03:46:16 shachaf: never heard of it but it looks alright 03:46:41 well it's just like a cartesian closed lattice 03:47:08 so of course it's "alright" 03:47:48 (imo people should say "all right" instead of "alright" it would be an improvement in the world but a very small one) 03:48:17 what if they said aight instead. what then. 03:49:15 look no need to get extreme mnoqy there's a limit to everything 03:49:26 well in a complete heytina algebra there is 03:49:48 ng 03:52:32 :-) 03:52:37 hm so if you have arbitrary joins and finite meets in a lattice and meets distribute over joins then you can define implication(exponentials) with a -> b = join {c : c meet a <= b} 03:54:16 does something like that make sense in other categories 03:56:26 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:58:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:02:04 -!- augur has joined. 04:02:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:02:46 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:11:45 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:23:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:23:39 Hello! Why do you like to change the topic with the perfume? 04:24:42 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:24:52 yes 04:25:55 I have some electronic device labeled "GTCO Corporation DIGI-PAD (R)". Do you know what this is? 04:29:36 nope 04:31:07 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:32:45 http://joshreads.com/images/13/10/i131025heathcliff.jpg related 04:37:37 good funny 04:49:10 What's bad funny? 04:49:21 this 04:55:49 Do you know of any program that converts between UTF, VLQ, and raw formats? 04:58:58 (If you convert UTF-8 to UTF-8, you get rid of overlong encodings but will retain surrogates. If you convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 and then UTF-16 to UTF-8, you will convert CESU-8 to proper UTF-8. If you convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 and then treat the result as raw 16-bit data and convert that to UTF-8, then you will get CESU-8.) 05:12:29 zzo38: Note that UTF-8 to UTF-16 to UTF-8 only does that *if* you don't validate the UTF-8 parsing. 05:12:57 UTF-16 surrogates are not valid Unicode, so UTF-8 with surrogates is a parse error. 05:13:25 (though this assumes the UTF-8 parser checks. If not, then that is what happens, yes) 05:13:50 pikhq: I am not intending to validate that it is valid Unicode or that it isn't overlong; that would be a separate option. (If it doesn't have to valid Unicode, then UTF-8 can encode up to 36-bit numbers.) 05:14:27 Ah, so more discussing the UTF-8 integer encoding scheme. 05:14:27 K. 05:14:37 Which really needs a better name. :P 05:15:33 If it checks for valid Unicode, then treating UTF-16 as raw 16-bit data and converting to UTF-8 would equally fail. 05:17:54 And some UTF-8 files do contain UTF-16 surrogates; such thing isn't proper Unicode but some programs might not care (VGMCK (a program I wrote) only reads UTF-8 in order to convert to UTF-16, and doesn't treat surrogates as anything special, so it will read them just fine and not be a parse error). 05:18:31 A program which instead decodes UTF-8 to look them up in a font might not work if it contains surrogates, though. 05:20:46 Do other programs allow you to enter trailing spaces that aren't stripped if you use overlong encodings? 05:25:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 05:26:05 I would expect any that decode UTF-8 in the same way to do so, but do any other programs do that? 05:27:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:30:53 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 05:50:32 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:23:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:40:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:43:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:29:25 -!- asie has joined. 07:49:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:54:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:01:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:07:13 Oh god I think the clocks went back last night but I'm not sure if my computer changed automatically or not so I have no idea what time it is 08:07:31 Okay, my computer changed automatically 08:07:43 There are network time servers too if required 08:10:48 -!- carado has joined. 08:14:25 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 08:16:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:23:56 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 08:51:20 Are there tsume shogi for Nintendo DS? 08:54:50 Taneb: presumably you knew the current time to be within a particular set of measure zero so that's as good as actually knowing what time it is right 08:55:08 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:59:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:00:27 kmc, nah, I googled it 09:00:30 I have played a few different tsume shogi for GameBoy, from I'MAX, Imagineer, and Athena. The one from Athena is best, I think. 09:03:05 we in the states are still in summertime 09:03:11 for one more week 09:13:03 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 09:25:38 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:27:19 -!- asie has joined. 09:44:48 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 09:51:30 In the place I live in Canada, it is also the daylight saving time one more week. I think because they just copied the same rule. 09:51:48 Maybe it is in order to do business more easily. 10:00:24 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:03:16 "Uncaught TypeError: Object # has no method 'toBlob'" -- so lame. 10:03:39 Oh, it's on the canvas, not the context. 10:05:23 "Uncaught TypeError: Object # has no method 'toBlob'" well that's not any better. 10:06:08 "Experimental draft" "Implementation status: [empty space]" I guess that's a bit too new. 10:18:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:20:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:21:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:22:30 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:22:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:24:11 I think one of Firefox and Chromium supports that at least 10:27:25 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:50:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:51:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:05:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:20:05 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:25:53 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 11:26:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:26:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:37:22 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:38:40 -!- asie has joined. 12:15:40 -!- yorick has joined. 12:16:33 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:28:06 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:31:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:35:22 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:39:34 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 12:45:51 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 12:59:39 Hey folks 12:59:45 What's the good C compiler for windows 12:59:54 I'm gonna try to esolang a bit 13:07:51 visual studio? 13:09:44 Some dude advised Dev C++, is it wise 13:26:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:27:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:37:32 C on Windows is not wise by definition 13:41:23 gcc under mingw? 13:42:31 -!- nys has joined. 13:46:35 I'm following a haskell "tutorial" that seems aimed at "imperative programmers" 13:47:23 ten chapters and one calculator implemented, still no sign of monads 13:47:40 and it's still not clear how you can manage I/O without side effects 13:53:55 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 14:02:57 Have you tried Learn You a Haskell? 14:05:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:06:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:06:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:06:45 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:09:25 Koen_, also note the standard caveats that monads aren't that huge of a deal, that there are plenty of monads that aren't IO and have nothing to do with 'side effects', that IO would be perfectly doable without monads 14:24:56 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:25:21 FireFly: well I almost won that book in a quizz at a scala symposium three days ago, but the girl I was with insisted we played for free, so we didn't get the book :( 14:26:08 Well there's a free online version too :p 14:26:10 Phantom__Hoover: I'm just trying to grasp the whole "we're purely functional but side-effects are not a problem" thingy 14:26:17 * FireFly should get the printed version though 14:34:14 this tutorial is also kinda weird because it keeps insisting on the "differences" between object-oriented, imperative, and functional, whereas I always think in terms of similarities (patterns), not differences 14:36:33 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 14:37:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:41:34 also I hate that haskell uses indentation as part of the semantics 14:45:00 I think it doesn't, but rather have it be sugar for { ... ; ... ; ... } 14:45:09 But I may be wrong; I'm not really a Haskeller 14:47:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:49:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:50:13 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:52:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: The how-to guide to changing the topic with environmentally friendly hypoallergenic lenses | PDF yourself: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 15:01:28 also I hate that haskell uses indentation as part of the semantics <-- that's syntax not semantics. 15:01:43 yes my apology 15:02:09 also you can go sit there together with zzo38 and refuse to use it :P 15:05:07 refuse to use haskell? or indentation? 15:14:41 or the word 'it'? 15:18:07 Koen_, as for the side effects thing, aiui the way it works is that the IO monad represents ad-hoc imperative programs which handle all the stateful stuff 15:19:25 well as far as I understand "it's okay to have side-effects in the main function, but the other functions are pure" 15:19:59 so i'm guessing the IO monad is just a convenient way to pass the information to main 15:20:54 no, this is wrong 15:21:04 main isn't even a function; its type is IO () 15:22:09 i.e. it's (a representation of) an imperative program which at some point will produce a value of type (), and possibly do other things besides 15:26:07 Koen_: as FireFly mentioned, all indentation sensitivity in haskell is sugar for explicit { ; } blocks. 15:26:16 similarly getChar :: IO Char produces a value of type Char, and in the process consumes a character from stdin 15:28:13 oerjan: yes, but I'm not sure how I could choose not to use it 15:28:48 Koen_: well you could use { ; } instead when writing programs. of course it won't help with reading other people's programs. 15:29:02 Phantom__Hoover: well we did use getChar but I really couldn't see how that was any different from getchar in any other language 15:29:38 oerjan: so for instance I could write "let { x = 4; y = 5 } in x + y"? 15:29:45 yes. 15:30:02 okay 15:30:48 Koen_, because in other languages the type of getchar is just char, and it's treated as a function with no arguments 15:30:52 but does that mean if I write "do" and then a newline and then "{", the newline will be syntactic sugar for an outter block? 15:31:25 Hm 15:31:34 Koen_: no. the { being the first token after the do is precisely what turns off the usual indentation sensitivity. 15:31:35 I think I'll have to drop the Unlambda ` for limp. 15:31:44 It works best for mono-letter functions 15:31:57 getChar is neither a function nor a character, it's a representation of an imperative program 15:32:12 I don't know what that means 15:33:37 well imagine it as an actual program in some imperative language 15:33:51 Koen_: in haskell, getChar has an IO type, which tells that it can do side effects. things that are not marked with such a type cannot call things that are. 15:34:04 oh 15:34:11 oerjan, aaaargh i was trying to avoid that explanation 15:34:24 Phantom__Hoover: SOOOOOO SOOOOOORRRYYY 15:34:26 that's kinda disappointing but at least I understand 15:34:43 Phantom__Hoover: it seemed to help? 15:35:11 no, because he now has the standard misconception that IO is a language-level hack that marks some functions as 'contaminated' with 'statefulness' 15:35:31 yes I do 15:35:54 kinda like in C some functions on strings give the "constant" type to their argument 15:35:58 and others don't 15:36:22 it isn't; IO is in principle an ordinary algebraic data type, albeit one which is hidden for implementation reasons 15:37:18 Koen_: Phantom__Hoover does have a point that IO values are _not_ functions, they are used differently. 15:37:20 then I guess I'll understand once I've read more about monads; and in the mean time I'll use oerjan's explanation 15:37:34 monads won't help you understand IO!!! 15:37:43 oh 15:38:25 monads are just a structure over a type (which can be something as everyday as lists, or Maybe if you've encountered that) and a couple of functions operating on those structures in certain ways 15:38:55 i am not convinced Phantom__Hoover's way of explaining this is actually better. 15:39:07 it's not is it 15:39:30 i thought haskellwiki had a good explanation of IO but all it has is the State RealWorld malarkey 15:39:34 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:40:32 I was told Maybe is just option 15:40:52 yeah 15:41:54 Koen_: one important point to be aware of is that evaluating an IO action is not the same as running it, and only the latter performs any actual IO. 15:42:07 okay 15:43:07 but getChar cannot be evaluated without being run, right? 15:43:31 no 15:43:37 er 15:43:39 wait, yes! 15:43:40 it _can_, although because of haskell's default laziness it is unlikely to happen by accident. 15:43:53 > getChar `seq` "hello" 15:43:55 "hello" 15:44:03 it's just that there's not an awful lot you can do with an IO value except run it 15:44:16 that technically evaluated getChar, although in a useless way. 15:45:54 perhaps more accurately is to say that there is no way to _use_ an IO value without running it. 15:46:21 you could also, in theory, have a function of type IO () -> Int that evaluated something stupid about the IO action itself 15:46:26 like how long it is or something 15:47:12 i don't think haskell has any non-IO means of analyzing IO actions. 15:47:40 and i don't recall much of IO means either, although who knows what exists out there. 15:48:29 yeah, it doesn't actually have any such function because, as i said, it's stupid 15:48:37 that Storable / StablePointer stuff from the ffi could probably do something. 15:49:03 but, in theory, you could have such a function, and it would be as pure as any other 15:49:33 right if IO was implemented as an ADT as you suggested. 15:52:43 "sig: -nan inf inf inf -inf -inf -inf inf -inf inf -inf inf -inf inf inf inf" 15:52:47 (Best signal?) 15:53:36 nani 15:55:59 * FireFly wonders if that output is from Lua 15:56:10 It's not. 15:56:33 I guess 'nan' and 'inf' (with that case) is more common than where I've seen it used, then 15:56:51 It's from glibc. 15:57:01 Oh, I see 16:01:24 > (replicate 16 (0/0),"BATMAN!") 16:01:26 ([NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN,NaN],"BATMAN!") 16:02:42 >>> [float('inf'), -float('inf'), float('inf')-float('inf')] 16:02:42 [inf, -inf, nan] 16:02:45 Python also. 16:03:59 > (1/0*)<*>[1,-1,0] 16:04:01 Couldn't match expected type `[a0 -> b0]' 16:04:01 with actual type `a1... 16:04:05 oops 16:04:11 > (1/0*)<$>[1,-1,0] 16:04:12 [Infinity,-Infinity,NaN] 16:05:23 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:07:02 I am wondering 16:07:20 Does the lazy vs eager evaluation have a parallel with queue vs stack? 16:07:45 Like you can implement it via piling or queueing instructions 16:14:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:16:30 i think queuing instructions doesn't correspond to any of those evaluation strategies. 16:16:59 Okay 16:18:34 stacks are cool for scopes 16:18:56 queues are not cool, but more likely to give you turing-completeness :) 16:19:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:22:06 Well I don't really worry about turing completeness 16:22:15 I'm trying to mash together 5 Turing complete languages 16:22:20 It should be fine 16:22:51 we want names 16:23:03 you know what would be good 16:23:04 Same old thang : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp 16:23:20 combining 5 turing complete languages in such a way that it's no longer turing complete 16:23:38 nys : That would be quite a fuck up 16:23:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:24:15 i mean it would be a challenge in and of itself 16:24:40 Would it be possible? 16:24:42 fake-completeness paradigm 16:24:47 i dunno 16:25:06 I mean, you could take those 5 languages, and restrict the language to just one of those for a particular program 16:25:11 And bam, it would be TC 16:25:26 For that to work, you'd have to add restrictions on those languages as well 16:25:33 well it depends on how they're combined 16:26:03 what combining means 16:26:12 I guess! 16:26:25 But I can't think off the cuff on how that would work 16:28:21 what if a program in your language consists in a pipeline of five programs, each in one of the five turing-complete languages 16:28:47 but the pipeline is such that it is no longer possible to do anything you want 16:28:58 because, err, maybe encoding of input and output is fucked up 16:29:25 i like the idea of it looking like it should work but not actually working 16:29:48 Hm 16:29:54 I wonder if you could try mixing it up 16:29:57 Like say 16:30:06 Take recursive functions and Lisp 16:30:17 And switch the operators 16:30:35 Like suddenly cons car cdr are applied (in some way) to numbers, and succ to lists 16:30:58 In such a way that it makes sense, but isn't TC anymore 16:31:12 Like Succ(list) = (list,Nil) and such 16:31:23 'succ' feels like cons except you forgot to tell it what element to add to the list 16:33:03 well I'm off to watch Gravity maybe it'll give me ideas :) 16:33:08 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 16:38:36 Plugged an old Wacom tablet in the same hub where a memory card reader was: http://sprunge.us/HWNi 16:47:40 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 16:48:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:03:47 Dang coding is hard to get back to 17:03:53 Didn't code in C in 4 years 17:11:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:12:15 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:13:57 -!- conehead has joined. 17:20:36 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:41:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:47:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:18:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:19:45 -!- heroux has joined. 18:28:13 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:31:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:32:22 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:35:36 -!- ^v has joined. 18:40:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 18:45:29 -!- asie has joined. 18:49:15 Douglas Hofstadter is so very infuriating when I try and get something solid out of reading his books. 18:49:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:50:04 -!- heroux has joined. 18:50:40 that's because there is very little solid in them 18:51:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris%20Pressey#Esoteric_Reading_List.21 18:51:53 I know. I hoped and hoped wrong. 18:52:12 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:53:01 hi 18:53:17 for the record Gravity has the Koen seal of approval 18:53:53 where would we be without gravity, after all 18:54:47 well Sandra Bullock could answer that 18:56:17 I saw the title "fluid concepts and creative analogies" and thought that there would be some useful techniques I could use for when I wanted to figure out if two things were similar. But the programs in the book are not good at what they do, or illuminating in how they do it. 19:00:12 it was useful in that he blasted some competitors and so I was able to find the competitor's useful work 19:05:45 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 19:07:35 doesthiswork: haha 19:07:57 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:08:17 elliott: I mostly agree, although I still think the beginning of GEB is a solid introduction to metamathematics 19:08:57 His book about translating a french poem is also enjoyable because there are no computers involved 19:09:30 things that don't involve computers are often enjoyable 19:09:51 kmc: i disagree! 19:10:32 kmc: GEB was like 10% expanding the way I think, 40% enjoying the dialogues, 50% being bored of the hundred-page step-by-step formal logic derivations and sceptical of the "brain = Godel!!!!1111" crap 19:10:38 it's... a mess 19:11:02 yep 19:11:05 a hot mess 19:11:44 I think it's worth reading iff you have a lot of free time and aren't going to buy into his theory of consciousness 19:12:31 as a 12 year old kid I loved it. 19:13:04 although I had a tendency to only read the dialogues. 19:13:23 being 12 also helps 19:13:39 I was 11 or something I think 19:13:53 i think i was 12 when i read it 19:14:01 maybe 11 tho 19:14:01 21:03 < kmc> achilles and the tortoise rob a liquor store 19:17:55 i still need to read it 19:21:20 fair enough if you want to, but I doubt that you need to 19:22:49 == 19:24:31 hth? 19:25:50 -!- avid has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:40:06 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:41:04 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:41:40 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:56:03 -!- muzdisk has joined. 19:58:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:00:11 -!- muzdisk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:06:40 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 20:08:25 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:13:19 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 20:16:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:16:46 -!- scientists has joined. 20:17:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:17:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:17:39 kmc: http://babelstone.blogspot.com/2013/10/whats-new-in-unicode-70.html 20:18:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:18:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:20:05 about time they added 1F595 20:24:12 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 20:24:26 -!- scientists has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:26:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:27:16 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 20:29:39 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:43:43 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 20:45:47 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:50:51 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 20:52:21 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to propumpkin. 20:53:08 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:53:14 `? coconut 20:53:18 coconut? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:57:04 `? conut 20:57:05 conut? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:00:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:04:13 `? nut 21:04:15 nut? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:05:12 so has anyone made cobrainfuck? 21:05:48 what should that be 21:06:28 would making a cobrainfuck derivative unbrick your brain? 21:06:29 I don't know, elliot's the one with the esoteric math knowledge 21:07:51 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:11:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:17:52 -!- Diren has joined. 21:22:34 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 21:23:25 Selamlar. 21:24:48 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:25:28 -!- Selamlar has joined. 21:25:40 I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED 21:26:07 :D 21:26:35 `welcome Diren 21:26:38 Diren: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:30:57 -!- Selamlar has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:39:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:39:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:41:03 -!- Diren has quit. 21:41:28 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 21:44:31 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:48:29 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:49:46 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:01:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:02:40 Tomorrow is probably my favourite Eurovision day 22:04:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:05:26 I wonder if the UK will ever have a decent entry ever again 22:05:40 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:07:54 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 22:11:10 You have your Eurovision participant thingy during the autumn? 22:11:33 We do? 22:11:46 Eurovision? 22:11:52 Aye 22:12:56 FireFly, I don't think we do, I'm just thinking about EuroVision 22:13:07 Oh 22:13:56 And it's normally just decided by the BBC 22:14:06 I think a couple of years ago they had a talent contest? 22:14:45 We usually have one each year to decide who is to represent Sweden 22:14:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melodifestivalen 22:15:01 I guess it works for you 22:15:44 We have a thing too. 22:15:52 Though I'm not sure it has any sort of proper name. 22:15:56 Taneb: o.O you don't get to vote!? 22:16:10 olsner, that is decided by the BBC 22:16:22 Well, we get to vote in the Eurovision final itself 22:20:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:20:46 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 22:32:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 22:32:27 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:33:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:34:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:36:17 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:59:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:10:34 -!- conehead has joined. 23:12:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris%20Pressey#Esoteric_Reading_List.21 <-- does his inclusion of ANKOS at the end mean the two previous are meant ironically as well? 23:13:20 *previous ones 23:13:55 GEB is worth a read 23:14:04 i think i started on it once. 23:14:28 but hey, i can already quine backwards and forwards, so what can it teach me. 23:16:24 cpressey was not impressed by GEB, no 23:17:00 as i recall he summed it up to me as 750 pages of recursion as a religious experience 23:17:07 he didn't unambiguously hate Laws of Form, though. there are degrees of irony! 23:17:49 i thought laws of form was the dumbest of the lot 23:18:21 ankos has nice pictures, you cannot deny that. 23:19:29 i find some deep satisfaction that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:20:37 `addquote i find some deep satisfaction that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:20:42 1123) i find some deep satisfaction that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:20:59 aaaaargh that should've been *in the fact that 23:21:21 i cannot add a non-literal quote, you know. 23:21:32 Phantom_Hoover: quick, say the whole thing 23:22:16 Phantom_Hoover: it's ok i've been bitten by it myself. 23:22:23 iirc. 23:22:25 i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:22:41 `addquote i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:22:45 1124) i find some deep satisfaction in the fact that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:23:13 `delquote 1123 23:23:19 ​*poof* i find some deep satisfaction that the legacy wolfram will leave is as the man who made calculus homework orders of magnitude easier 23:26:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:35:49 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 23:36:12 `run echo 'Ezoterik programlama dili tasarım ve dağıtım için uluslararası merkezi hoş geldiniz! Http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page: Daha fazla bilgi için, bizim wiki göz atın. (Esoterica diğer tür için, irc.dal.net üzerinde # ezoterik deneyin.)' >wisdom/selamlar 23:36:16 No output. 23:37:41 _maybe_ it shouldn't translate the dal.net irc channel name. 23:38:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 23:40:09 maybe 23:40:51 `run sed -i 's/ezoterik/esoteric/' wisdom/selamlar 23:40:55 No output. 23:41:02 `? selamlar 23:41:05 Ezoterik programlama dili tasarım ve dağıtım için uluslararası merkezi hoş geldiniz! Http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page: Daha fazla bilgi için, bizim wiki göz atın. (Esoterica diğer tür için, irc.dal.net üzerinde # esoteric deneyin.) 23:41:13 hm.. 23:41:28 `run sed -i 's/ esoteric/esoteric/' wisdom/selamlar 23:41:32 No output. 23:42:06 -!- ^v has joined. 23:51:18 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 23:51:48 -!- ^v has joined. 23:54:25 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 23:54:59 -!- ^v has joined. 23:55:55 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:56:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:59:05 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).