00:17:42 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 00:19:15 $define! 00:19:47 I kind of like the idea of having both and? and $and? 00:24:29 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:24:33 -!- Bike has joined. 00:26:09 the latter short-circuits and the former does not? 00:26:37 yes 00:26:43 I thought you were the Kernel person here 00:27:05 Ok, that came out kind of mean, sorry 00:28:15 I see a strong similarity between eval in Kernel and uplevel in Tcl 00:28:48 uplevel in Tcl lets you eval in the immediately 'above' scope, which I gather eval'ing using the passed-in environment in an operative also does? 00:37:06 no it's fine 00:37:10 i don't know that much about kernel though 00:37:11 never used it 00:37:14 just read some of the papers 00:38:28 You can't pass around the uplevel 1 in Tcl though, and uplevel is too powerful, it lets you go up more than one scope 00:40:34 I think CPython also lets you do that 00:40:45 updog: what's uplevel 00:40:45 what's updog? 00:41:44 "Thus, not specifying the order of argument evaluation is key to the expressiveness 00:41:44 of the language. " 00:41:45 wat 00:44:33 -!- ^v has joined. 00:46:28 that is confusing 00:57:38 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:57:39 ". Moreover, by the same reasoning, this additional information can be shared with the user of the Kernel system, as long as it remains unavailable to the program." 00:57:44 What is this, the anti-Smalltalk? 01:07:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:11:53 i learned about http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/rtld-audit.7.html today 01:11:54 seems p. fun 01:13:07 it lets you hook almost everything the dynamic linker does, and therefore hook any dynamically linked functions too 01:13:12 so you can use it for a souped up ltrace (http://people.redhat.com/jolsa/latrace/index.shtml) 01:15:01 HOLY 01:15:07 (wrap $vau) 01:15:32 ... this completely solves the problem I had with Kernel not being Tcl-like enough for my tastes. 01:15:46 lol 01:15:58 Just... wrapping the operative. Means I can make the operative see what I want it to see 01:16:28 couldn't you also just... use eval 01:17:04 Yeah, but that seems like it would be ... ugly somehow. 01:19:03 so you hide the eval inside the body of a vau 01:19:04 shrug 01:19:35 users of the paperclip gem are encouraged to upgrade to the latest version of cocaine 01:31:41 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:35:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:42 -!- augur has joined. 01:36:06 "It is almost possible to simulate the behavior of type applicative using only operatives, 01:36:06 thus bypassing wrap and unwrap altogether" 01:36:12 (almost is italicised) 01:36:17 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:36:34 I vaguely remember mocking Kernel for the distinction once 01:36:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:36:55 i wrote about that 01:36:57 in my blog post 01:37:36 I should read that post more thoroughly 01:37:49 But reading Kernel spec currently 01:55:47 "If lists is empty, or if all of its elements are not lists of the 01:55:47 same length, an error is signaled." 01:56:09 There's an argument for allowing "useless" cases... makes things easier on code-writing code 01:58:30 Oh 01:58:31 " but then, 01:58:32 if no list arguments are provided, there is no way to choose a result length that will be 01:58:32 compatible with all nontrivial cases: the result length would have to be simultaneously 01:58:32 equal to every nonnegative integer, and to positive inﬁnity as well. " 01:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:59:44 -!- augur has joined. 02:04:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:28:24 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 02:37:26 With Kernel, macro-like things generally have two environments in play, although I guess they can be given more 02:37:57 With syntax-case used procedurally, there are potentially a lot of environments in play, if the input to syntax-case has been built up from different sources 02:38:07 With syntax-rules, how many environments are in play? Just 2? 02:38:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnat). 02:42:31 * Sgeo blinks 02:42:45 Is Kernel using list the same way it's often used in Tcl? 02:50:01 -!- ION has changed nick to ion. 03:02:02 Kernel addresses a problem I had with Picolisp. Not sure if I prefer the way Kernel addresses it, but it does address it 03:02:39 Namely: Whether functions that take symbols should evaluate their arguments (thus requiring the symbols to be quoted) or not 03:02:53 Picolisp sometimes has functions for both cases 03:03:02 Kernel is against the idea of encouraging programmers to quote symbols 03:17:28 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:31:40 make-keyed-dynamic-variable binder thing uses a fresh dynamic environment 03:31:40 :/ 03:32:27 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:33:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:42:05 -!- yours_truly has joined. 03:42:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:42:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:43:00 -!- yours_truly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:43:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:44:45 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:46:41 uplevel in Tcl lets you eval in the immediately 'above' scope, which I gather eval'ing using the passed-in environment in an operative also does? <-- yeah, in some of my little kernel code i defined stuff in the calling environment to make a defclassy thing 03:48:18 Sgeo: and re argument evaluation iirc that's because it lets you do amb sorta crap 03:48:24 also good for optimization occasionally 03:49:01 Are there actually implementations of Kernel? 03:49:16 at least a dozen 03:49:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:49:26 i mean they're mostly crap, but writing a lisp is damn easy 03:49:47 as for anti-smalltalk, yeah, i think the author's attitude there is kind of silly 03:49:57 bla bla weird language bla pointless bike crap 03:51:57 Wonder if I could make a Racket language where the already existing Racket macros become first-class 03:52:28 like, (wrap $vau) as you mentioned is nice, but you have to do (eval (cons (wrap $vau) ...) env) to make a closure in env which is imo kind of idiotic 03:54:23 I have yet to give anywhere near sufficient thought to comparing Kernel with Rebol 03:55:41 that sounds boring. now if you'll excuse me i need to read "Achilles and the tortoise climbing up the hyperarithmetical hierarchy" 03:57:22 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:03:12 achilles and the tortoise rob a liquor store 04:06:03 I have some ideas on a ... not quite Kernel-like, but Kernel-inspired Racket language. 04:06:22 is that like a CSI episode inspired by the headlines 04:07:04 Rather than interpreting some Kernel-like language, I can redefine references to macros to output some kind of wrapped reference to the function behind the macro, and redefine function application to check for this 04:07:47 so yes 04:27:29 http://shadow-file.blogspot.com/2013/10/complete-persistent-compromise-of.html haha jesus 04:35:10 So, any responsible disclosure? 04:35:17 Was Netgear ever contacted? 04:35:25 Although, not sure what they really could do to fix it 04:35:34 I mean, can't force everyone to update firmware, can you? 04:35:40 "never make such a ridiculous system again" 04:35:55 -!- augur has joined. 04:37:49 -!- asie has joined. 04:42:54 "Rust's grammar is defined over Unicode codepoints, each conventionally denoted U+XXXX, for 4 or more hexadecimal digits X" i like that they leave open the possibility of using astral plane characters in the language syntax 04:43:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQE496Pcn8 04:44:28 kmc: why wouldn't they 04:54:10 exactly 04:56:06 oh when you say you like it you mean that you like it? 04:56:12 strange idiom 04:57:29 "yes" 04:58:47 help the quotes are too much for me 04:59:21 ```````````````````````````````` 04:59:23 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```````````````````````````````: not found 04:59:43 B| 05:02:01 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 05:02:45 ´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´´ 05:03:08 kmc: is that 32 by accident or due to repeated doubling 05:03:41 it's due to a mild compulsion to do repetitive actions a power of two times 05:04:35 did you generate it via repeated ^W ^Y ^Y 05:05:49 no 05:05:53 did you know you can make irssi use lots of memory by doing that enough times 05:05:57 i suspected as much 05:06:35 112112311211234112112311211234511211231121123411211231121123456112112311211234112112311211234511211231121123411211231121123456 05:07:30 hm: 12311211234112112311211234511211231121123411211231121123456112112311211234112112311211234511211231121123411211231121123456 05:07:58 "oopse" i forgot that 7 > 3 05:08:00 01101001100101101001011001101001 05:08:32 > let f '0' = "01"; f '1' = "10" in fix $ (f =<<) . ('0':) 05:08:34 "01011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001... 05:09:33 WHOA, DUDE, you can make Irssi use lots of memory by adding lots of characters to the input bar? No way. 05:09:47 hm so the Thue-Morse sequence is the fixed point of the Manchester code? 05:10:11 i too enjoy restating facts i have just learned in a sarcastic fashion 05:13:56 Bike: did you know that there are heterotrophic plants which parasitize mushrooms 05:13:59 like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropa_uniflora 05:14:04 it's white, doesn't produce chlorophyll 05:14:33 yeah i did, they rule 05:14:53 i mean, not literally, since they're just parasites and don't control the shrooms or anything, but, 05:15:20 my bio class put a lot of emphasis on mycorrhiza. nice to know that whole "hey we found this is kind of essential" has filtered down to me 05:17:08 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:12 i guess arbuscular mycorrhiza isn't as exciting though. 05:31:21 "In vau3, some careful thinking will be 05:31:22 needed to make sure that operatives can't be returned from an applicative." 05:31:22 err 05:31:52 what? 05:32:02 https://github.com/tonyg/js-vau/blob/master/TODO 05:33:14 Sgeo: just checking here it's not just me that thinks using applicatives as security is kind of stupid 05:33:19 right 05:33:51 I'm more disturbed by the thought of ceasing to treat operatives as first-class when that's the primary interesting thing 05:34:15 I have no idea what is meant by using applicatives for capabilities, so can't comment on that aspect. 05:34:28 well is that really supposed to be read as, make sure a compound operative will never return an applicative? 05:34:38 because i mean, if so, i'd just disregard that whole implementation cos they don't know shit 05:35:46 pfffft who needs js-vau just compile guile with emscripten and then run qoppa in it 05:35:59 tonyg has some interesting other work 05:36:02 Not related to Kernel 05:36:18 i heard that being outside in the sun is sinful, but i'm just going to disregard that sin cos tan 05:36:28 kmc's got a point here, 05:36:38 shachaf's got a good point here 05:36:44 , 05:36:46 mnoqy has the best point here 05:36:54 mnȯqy 05:37:34 ṡḣȧċḣȧḟ 05:37:37 ő_ő 05:38:01 i think i need a photo of erdős, wide-eyed 05:38:05 ṁṅȯq̇ẏ 05:38:22 m̈n̈öq̈ÿ 05:38:39 cocoa-coated co-cones 05:39:09 are conic sections co-cones? 05:39:18 m̈̇n̈̇ö̇q̈̇ÿ̇ 05:39:31 ¥ 05:40:05 Bike: that is not serious question correct 05:40:32 cocone is a wird word. i think i prefer "cone from" and "cone to" or whatever they were. 05:40:47 it's serious in that i'm kind of wondering what a co-cone would be, not serious in that i don't actually think conic sections would be the answer 05:40:48 cones are weird "does such a simple thing even deserve a word" 05:41:11 http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/378480?obs=149510&q=1ZqL1 05:41:26 Bike: a cocone is just a natural transformation to a constant functor hth 05:41:37 what the fuck does that have to do with cones 05:41:47 a cone is just a natural transformation from a constant functor 05:41:57 starting to think i only learn math out of sheer spite for category theory 05:41:59 it looks like a cone if you draw a picture and squint at it hard enough 05:42:21 what mnoqy said is the real answer 05:42:25 be sure to draw the picture in such a way that it looks like a cone 05:42:36 because you draw a dot and then you draw a bunch of arrows from that dot to a bunch of other dots 05:42:45 that's all of category theory 05:42:50 sometimes the other dots even have arrows between them! 05:42:53 arrows? or spite? 05:42:59 rnnoqy 05:43:07 kmc: defining things via universal properties is p. neat do you know how that works 05:43:16 a professor told me that computer science is the study of boxes and arrows so I guess it's not surprising that category theory is useful in CS 05:43:32 like the categorical definition of p. much anything such as a product 05:43:33 who needs boxes when you have even more arrows 05:43:43 mnoqy is insightful today 05:44:22 draw a box out of arrows. experience the joy 05:44:26 now define ∞ categories using only arrows 05:44:46 or whatever those end up being i don't even know :'( 05:45:14 is pointless topology where you make boxes out of arrows 05:45:35 oh, great, thanks for reminding me i was going to read analysis situs -_- 05:45:55 the intro going on about all the errors and how he thought his connjecture was trivial is pretty nice 05:55:29 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 05:56:51 I get it! It's so beautiful! The connection between Kernel, Racket, Tcl, and Rebol 05:57:12 (ok, not really, but I think I get some idea of similarities between Rebol and Kernel) 05:57:34 Rebol keeps looking more like Racket than anything else :/ 05:57:49 -!- Uguubee111117 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:59:03 Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNpW8KZOVhw 05:59:12 Sgeo: they should have sent a poet 05:59:52 Bike: what. why. 06:00:46 i sent a poet 06:00:48 that's like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8AUPSfgk18 (can't remember if this is nsfw or not) 06:01:29 still not sure whether i believe that was actually graded 06:02:15 the typing noises are so great 06:02:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEgtYOJ_qeM is definitely nsfw 06:05:51 I can't help think that I almost like Rebol's model better than Kernel 06:06:44 Although guess I need to think about whether hygiene can even be broken in the right ways in that model 06:07:29 I also need to not drop dead of sleep deprivation 06:08:48 dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed. 06:09:23 yes 06:10:41 one thing I like about the Internet is that things which could be brilliant postmodern art or could be utter shite are produced and published at a rate much too fast for any authority to judge them 06:13:50 well cboyardee's later stuff has been well received 06:16:52 ok 06:17:26 * Bike makes note to talk about cboyardee's "rainbow period" 06:18:58 I think after this song finishes playing I MUST sleep 06:19:31 good plan 06:19:44 500KV Substation arc.. Nice 06:25:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h6UPMcy8-o cool robot 06:29:01 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:36:39 Robots are categorically cool, AIUI. 06:37:17 fungot: Have you inspected any high-voltage transmission lines lately? 06:37:17 fizzie: and i tried those md5s both all caps and all lowercase 06:37:20 fizzie has never watched asimo try to breakdance 06:37:27 fungot: That's... not quite the same thing. 06:37:27 fizzie: what do 's buy you that fnord and x*y with 0/ 1 then 1/ 1; 1/ 3 06:37:42 "Automatic Chicken Breast Deboning Robot " finally 06:39:33 oh, this is cool. 06:45:01 yes let's teach the robots how to remove bones 06:46:16 i meant the power line one, i'm a bit too squeamish for deboning 06:46:24 fungot: Have you learned to remove bones? 06:46:24 fizzie: mä fnord mennä fnord. fnord a maclisp guy at heart." block expr; i don't think 06:46:35 I'm slightly worried. 06:46:45 what about reboning (maybe this sounds like i'm hitting on you) 06:46:46 (Also: more Finnish in it.) 06:47:58 well, surgery's cool. 06:48:10 i might take a field trip to see a da vinci surgery robot at some point 06:48:32 :O 06:48:58 such are the advantages at going to a meat-oriented school, i guess 06:49:10 "orientation: meat" 06:49:30 Bike: do they have some of those cows with clear removable ports installed in their stomachs 06:49:47 so you can reach in and experience the beauty of nature as grass is turned into cow shit 06:50:13 is... that a thing 06:50:14 Isn't "orientation: meat" the kind of thing you post in your deadjournal? 06:50:21 Bike: yes 06:50:26 damn i need to get investigating opportunities re: meat 06:50:59 i haven't even gone to the raptor hospital >_> 06:51:00 also, isn't it great the range of meaning that English gets just from naming different kinds of animal shit... eg bullshit horseshit dogshit chickenshit apeshit batshit 06:51:13 never thought of it that way. very cool 06:51:46 these all have different, useful meanings imo 06:52:54 the subtle but important distinction between ape and bat shit 06:52:57 yes 06:54:11 Which one of those is closest to bananas? 06:55:19 apeshit, clearly 06:55:48 Yes, well, it's the logical choice, but I had this nagging suspicion batshit was closer. 06:56:03 Even though it makes no sense NYARRR 06:57:12 :D 06:57:17 "An army of sneezing wangs stalks my nightmare", as the saying goes. 06:58:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:58:36 what 06:58:42 http://isometri.cc/strips/i_have_horrible_allergies/ 06:58:51 wangs are not known to sneeze, in my experience 06:59:00 i think 'sneering' could work though 07:01:07 this is an odd comic 07:01:15 i like it 07:02:02 As I've mentioned a couple of times, back when I lived alone (redundant?) I had a dot-matrix-printer copy of http://isometri.cc/data/strips/only_when_youre_ready/21.gif as a wall decoration. It's classy to have some art, dontcha know. 07:02:37 it's redundant because all of us are truly alone in life, deep down? 07:03:19 It's redundant because that's not the kind of picture you hang up as a member of the civilized society, perhaps. 07:03:34 (Also the print quality was bad.) 07:04:19 i was going to put up some pictures but it sounds like I'll be moving (to another room in the same apartment) in a month or two 07:04:23 so I'm putting it off again 07:04:51 moo 07:05:00 Putting off and putting up sound pretty equivalent to moo. I mean, me. 07:05:25 oh no is your room broken 07:05:36 no its fine 07:05:39 just small 07:05:52 we have the smallest room and the largest number of people in a room 07:06:21 break down the walls 07:13:11 "NASA reports that it has used a pulsed laser beam to transmit data over the 384,633 kilometers (239,000 miles) between the Moon and the Earth at a transfer rate of 622 megabits per second." They can get 622 megabits to the *moon* but not more than barely a hundred to my home. 07:13:57 Not enough lasers involved in the latter, I suppose. 07:14:29 bet you get better latency, tho 07:17:33 The press release doesn't mention it, but that sounds like a safe bet. 07:18:57 you're complaining about having a hundred megabit connection to your house? 07:19:20 come to america sometime 07:19:59 kmc: It's only ten in the other direction. 07:20:15 (Though the laser to the moon was also only 20 megs to the other direction.) 07:20:17 my internet connection at work is p. good 07:21:47 The student apartments here are (gradually) being upgraded to have gigabit Ethernet to the apartments themselves. 07:22:22 I think they've done about half. 07:22:54 http://netstat.ayy.fi/weathermap/ fancy graph. 07:25:26 Also the entire village used to be a single Ethernet segment at one point. 07:25:31 There was quite a lot of noise. 07:28:42 * kmc wonders who has wi.fi 07:38:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:47:31 -!- carado_ has joined. 07:55:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:02:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:09:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:10:04 kmc: A company called "Wi Ventures". 08:11:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 08:16:57 http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html 08:33:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:40:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:41:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:41:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:42:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:58:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:57:31 merde. j'ai besoin d'une nouveaux laptop. :( 09:59:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:59:21 "besoin"? 09:59:34 I understand the rest of the sentence 10:08:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:14:54 http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html 10:19:03 Oh, fun 10:19:04 nortti: strangely enough, I'd opened that in tabs in my browser, but not read it yet 10:19:22 but, as the famous lament quote goes, even a box of rotten apples on a string is Turing-complete 10:19:50 like, I was intentionally keeping aimake configuration low-powered 10:20:13 and yet I think that's Turing-complete, if you write a bunch of files for intermediate storage (assuming the filesystem allows files with names of unbounded length) 10:22:44 I wonder how chaos-pp/order-pp relate to the C preprocessor entry on that page. 10:23:39 (Also I've never figured out how those two work, but the claim to be standards-compliant, yet have apparently general control structures like 8while.) 10:23:58 (And 8call_cc.) 10:25:24 fizzie: huh, that's the same trick I used in Verity 10:25:25 And there's some kind of a lambda calculus example. 10:25:35 all the internal-use-only identifiers start with digits to make them impossible to enter in a user program 10:25:47 because the lexer won't lex their names 10:26:14 Is that the same thing? I don't think the number is part of the name here. 10:26:39 I guess maybe they're part of the same C preprocessing token. 10:26:43 well, the C standards allow you to give semantics to otherwise illegal code 10:27:04 it's the usual way to implement extensions 10:27:10 This is not illegal code or an extension, though. 10:28:46 hmm 10:31:15 But even in the preprocessor, macro names are restricted to identifiers, so the 8's can't at least be part of a macro name. 10:31:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:31:45 Perhaps I should try to look at how it works at some point. It's just that, IIRC, order-pp is written on top of chaos-pp, and the latter seemed quite... confusing. 10:32:33 A lot of token concatenation is involved, I think. 10:34:11 I guess since everything is ultimately inside some ORDER_PP(...) macro it has a chance of prepending something else before the numbers. 10:37:15 But e.g. after #define ORDER_PP_DEF_8fib_iter ORDER_PP_FN(8fn(8N, 8I, 8J, 8if(8is_0(8N), 8I, 8fib_iter(8dec(8N), 8J, 8add(8I, 8J))))) the expression ORDER_PP(8stringize(8to_lit(8fib(8nat(5,0,0))))) expands into the string "139423224561697880139724382870407283950070256587697307264108962948325571622863290691557658876222521294125" 10:37:24 (Just verified that with gcc -E. 10:37:55 cpp isn't turing-complete unless you run it in a loop, there's an entropy restriction 10:38:04 but you can still make decently large loops and the like 10:38:43 I just wonder, since there seems to be no inherent limitations in order-pp. 10:40:42 I guess there is some kind of an arbitrary limit somewhere deep in chaos-pp. 10:40:57 But it manages to look quite a lot like the real thing, anyhow. 10:41:14 I think offhand that cpp is primitive recursive, not sure on that though 10:41:24 it's a computational class that doesn't get that much love, really 10:43:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:48:17 You could sort of argue that the "Stuff which is somehow limited -- is still considered Turing complete, since all "physical" Turing machines are resource limited", should apply to C preprocessor too. 10:49:26 Compare e.g. someone's brainfuck interpreter in CPP that has unbounded memory but an execution step limit of 2^33 instructions, with Apache's rewrite rule system that has a similar arbitrary restriction and still has been counted to be TC on that page. 10:51:40 I remember originally registering for reddit for the purpose of complaining that that HTML/CSS TCness proof was wrong 10:58:25 -!- yorick has joined. 11:01:23 What did it rely on anyway? 11:01:38 I recall there being something fishy with it 11:12:06 -!- Uguubee111118 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:12:22 FireFly: it had limited memory horizontally, probably vertically too 11:12:44 although I got at least some reddit commentors trying to work around that with CSSForms 11:12:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:13:39 and did that work? 11:15:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:17:18 mroman: I don't think it got very far 11:38:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:47 -!- Uguubee111118 has joined. 11:53:13 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:59:16 -!- boily has joined. 11:59:28 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:08:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:09:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:09:37 good headache morning. 12:10:22 oerjan: people from trondheim are weird. 12:10:51 boily: itj færra nålles 12:11:31 oerjan: de quossé? 12:11:42 Älä muuta virka. 12:12:15 * oerjan doesn't actually speak trondheim dialect, despite living there for most of 24 years. 12:12:35 (Ooh, I low how Google Translate picks all the wrong senses for that.) 12:13:07 boily: hey no fair confusing google translate with your ... oh wait. 12:13:24 fizzie: do not change the service??? 12:14:09 boily: It's approximately "you don't say [sarcastic tone]" or "say no more", it's just managed to choose pretty badly there. 12:14:11 oerjan: «dequossé» → «de quoi c'est» → «what is that» → «what» → «wut». 12:15:46 boily: it's a notorious trøndersk phrase which is used as a farewell greeting and means approximately "Don't get in trouble." 12:15:58 "muuta" is the second-person imperative of the verb "muuttaa" (alter, change), but it's also the partitive case for the noun "muu" (else, other). 12:17:00 No relation between "muuttaa" and "mutate"? 12:17:01 Älä laita vauva. 12:17:16 hmm, in English, "you don't say" is mostly used as a sarcastic reply when someone says something really obvious 12:18:18 And "virka" is indeed a post or a public office or things like that, but also second-person imperative of the verb "virkkaa", which is (in addition to crocheting) an old-fashioned dialectal alternative of "to say, to speak". 12:18:28 oerjan: That should be "älä laita vauvaa". 12:18:31 ais523: you don't say. 12:19:14 fizzie: fi{end,nn}ish 12:19:17 ais523: So I thought. I think the Finnish works for that, at least vaguely, but it can also be used in a "you're certainly right about that" context, depending on tone. 12:19:45 I suppose more for the latter, really. 12:20:03 "Ai, älä?" or something would be a closer match for "you don't say". 12:20:15 Älä ihmeessä. 12:20:17 Something like that. 12:21:58 fizzie: gt doesn't even give your senses as alternatives. 12:23:11 oerjan: I can see that. Though if you type in "virkkaa", it does list "say", "quoth" and "utter" as alternatives. 12:23:22 I guess "quoth" is kind of close, in that it sounds obsolete. 12:23:22 hmm, I fear oerjan is transitioning into that awful curse of believing everything that computers say 12:23:38 fungot: Do you believe everything your computer tells you? 12:23:38 fizzie: that's what i wanted 12:23:43 Okay, then. 12:23:58 I suppose it's understandable for a piece of software. 12:24:14 Er, meaning fungot. I'm not implying anything about oerjan here. 12:24:23 yeah, I think fungot trusting its computer is entirely reasonable 12:24:24 ais523: that depends... there's two ways of doing things. and, tcl and ruby are my strongest. 12:24:38 ais523: if it's not on google, it doesn't exist! 12:24:39 wow, two answers that can be interpreted as relevant in a row 12:25:13 oerjan: Are you, in fact, a piece of software? 12:25:34 fungot: You're on a roll. (I'm sure you'll reply something insensible to this.) 12:25:34 fizzie: am i allowed to not use it voluntarily. 12:25:38 Virkkoi korppi. 12:25:49 fizzie: well i'm fairly soft... 12:26:05 oerjan: I wonder if that's in the official translation. 12:27:15 No, it's just "korppi huus" (shortened form of "huusi", second person singular past tense of "huutaa", to shout). 12:28:03 I'm not entirely comfortable with the fact that fungot does tcl and ruby 12:28:03 FireFly: blicero has been rotated. i think tspl is basically just r5rs scheme though. just used sox to convert fnord in emacs. how to deal with 12:28:07 ("Virkkoi korppi" sounds a bit too sedate for that context, actually.) 12:28:16 (allegedly) 12:28:34 fungot: Is your army for world domination going to run on TCL and Ruby? 12:28:34 fizzie: if you can find a very simple system that allows him to edit the generated output to get rid of methods all together just have the equivalent of " jump to the start and end of thread testing always the same. 12:29:37 That sounds vaguely relevant as well 12:30:09 also gt doesn't know what "Nevermore" is in finnish. 12:30:43 oerjan: "Ei milloinkaan." 12:30:48 and here I thought you knew Finnish 12:31:04 fungot: do you know Finnish? 12:31:04 FireFly: that's still distracting from the main page and some links are known not to work 12:31:18 "Turhaan pyydän armahdusta, järkkymättä korppi musta / istuu päässä veistokuvan, hievahda ei paikaltaan. / Unelmissaan vain se mailla hornan liikkuu irvokkailla, / kun sen varjo aaveen lailla illoin kasvaa lattiaan / varjo synkkä, raskas, josta sieluni ei nousemaan / pääse enää milloinkaan." 12:31:54 There's some adaptation that has been done there. 12:32:13 * boily is drinking probably prestigious but most possibly bootleg 大紅包袍 12:32:24 s/包// 12:34:56 I put *that* in GT, and for some weird reason it writes "BUDGE" in all uppercase. 12:36:06 Wow, the prosody for speaking that out loud was quite "out there". 12:36:19 Their language models aren't perhaps trained for poetry. 12:36:29 you don't say. 12:36:55 älä muuta virka! 12:37:27 Muu. 12:37:46 (You can also read it as "don't say 'muu'", a favourite for witty people everywhere.) 12:38:40 Onko lehmä on Buddha-luonto? 12:40:38 muu, muu, muu, muu ♪ 12:43:34 oerjan: "Onko lehmällä Buddha-luonto" hth 12:44:16 (Disclaimer: possibly "Buddha-luontoa". It's debatable.) 12:45:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:46:00 -!- FreeFull has quit (Changing host). 12:46:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:51:54 hmm, now I want to make an esolang where all strings are equal 12:51:58 but I'm not sure why that would be interesting yet 12:53:01 maybe it isn't 12:53:23 hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day 12:54:18 ais523: You could make one where there are no string literals, so you have to write a string-generating function 12:54:20 `addquote hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day 12:54:24 1122) hmm… I guess the difference between me and most esolangers is that I don't instantly go and put it into a BF derivative and call it a day 12:54:44 FreeFull: elliott already did that with Underload 12:56:50 elliott already did everything conceivable. except Feather. 12:56:58 Doesn't seem to be what I was thinking of 12:57:29 FreeFull: it basically only had literals for the basic commands, all of which had side effects (those commands themselves) 12:57:32