00:01:00 room 152 00:01:29 ok 00:01:37 i'll be around then probably 00:01:40 don't know if I'll stay for the talk 00:01:53 ok 00:07:30 -!- Koen_ has joined. 00:08:10 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:08:24 -!- Koen_ has joined. 00:12:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:27:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:35:51 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:36:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:44:28 perhaps shaped charges will fix my makefile 00:45:28 "" 00:45:32 dangit 00:45:55 Fine, I'll type it out 00:46:24 "This whole subject of writing seemingly referentially opaque macros with syntax rules has been /actually/ inspired by a practical application." 00:52:48 I had a memory leak in a script I wrote a while back 00:52:53 Had to use the script today 00:52:57 It ate around 13GB 00:54:45 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:11:15 ouch 01:11:19 why does it leak memory 01:14:49 drlemon: http://web.archive.org/web/20130917111816/http://fmota.eu/blog/base64-fixed-point.html 01:29:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:33:02 kmc: I forgot to destroy the prepared statements, which I made in a loop 01:33:34 Mutable entities in Tcl don't get garbage collected 01:35:21 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:35:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:35:48 -!- ^v has joined. 01:35:51 oh 01:36:01 is that because the "references" between them are strings and therefore impossible to trace? 01:36:22 Pretty much, yes 01:36:30 i shuold learn Tcl 01:36:33 :) 01:37:31 Sgeo, what do you think of Rust's macro system? http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/master/tutorial-macros.html 01:39:44 Is pattern-matching the only form of macros available (not done reading yet) 01:40:29 free-form? 01:42:27 it's the only kind which doesn't involve editing the compiler 01:43:03 syntactically when you see foo!(bar) it could be invoking a user-defined macro or a compiler-defined syntax extension 01:43:20 But bar can be anything? 01:43:35 Can it be arbitrary strings, or is there some form in which it needs to be in to be parsable? 01:44:01 I think for macros it can be any sequence of valid Rust tokens, where () [] {} are properly nested and balanced 01:44:27 Rust programs are parsed to a "token tree" before a full AST, and that's where macro expansion happens 01:45:09 the token tree expresses the nesting structure of () [] {} and contains other tokens as leaves 01:45:46 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:45:51 in fact I think that secretly you can have a macro syntax variable $x:tt to take an arbitrary token tree, rather than the documented e.g. $x:expr which will parse that part of the tree as an expr before expanding the macro 01:46:06 not sure tho 01:46:59 "As a final, horrifying aside, note that macro-by-example's input is also matched by one of these matchers. Holy self-referential!" 01:47:44 i don't have the context to know what that comment means, just pasting for amusement 01:48:00 * variable looks oddly at kmc 01:48:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:53:51 why 01:56:10 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 02:02:47 Would it be possible to add Fugue or Velato notes over a normal audio file at inaudable frequencies? 02:28:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:42:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:55:03 -!- Uguubee111117 has joined. 02:55:36 -!- realzies has quit (K-Lined). 02:56:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:57:33 Sgeo: do we delete lists after they're finished 02:57:43 Sgeo: here's the macro I wrote today: https://github.com/kmcallister/servo/blob/8bd9be7240faf751b7d23e3d9a65a3db8adf3496/src/components/main/macros.rs#L14-L24 02:58:47 it turns «spawn_with!(task(), [foo, bar], { ...blah blah... })» into «do task().spawn_with((foo,bar)) |(foo,bar)| { ...blah blah... }» 02:59:16 which is itself sugar for «task().spawn_with((foo,bar), |(foo,bar)| { ...blah blah... })» 02:59:28 the second argument to spawn_with is a lambda expression taking a tuple as an argument 02:59:44 as for why we need to explicitly name (some of) the captured variables, there's a good-ish reason for that, which I can explain later 02:59:47 but -> afk now 03:00:45 shachaf: lists in Tcl are immutable strings, which are GCed 03:01:08 bin/*lists 03:01:29 `echo bin/*list 03:01:33 bin/*list 03:01:37 >_< 03:01:39 `run echo bin/*list 03:01:41 bin/danddreclist bin/emptylist bin/erflist bin/instalist bin/list bin/llist bin/makelist bin/mlist bin/olist bin/oohlist bin/pbflist bin/slist bin/smlist bin/testlist 03:03:04 `run echo 'rm bin/slist' >> bin/slist # There. 03:03:08 No output. 03:03:17 Bike++ 03:04:32 oh, that won't work. 03:04:34 whatashame 03:04:53 shachaf: It works on #xkcd 03:05:02 That's where i usually lurk 03:05:18 or the ++ thing has bot responses 03:05:43 one could say it is... *puts on sunglasses*... BOTOMATED 03:05:59 Bike: Oh, true. :-( 03:06:02 `revert 03:06:07 Done. 03:06:51 `run sed -i 's/exit/rm bin\/slist/; exit' bin/slist 03:06:56 sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found \ sh: xit: not found 03:07:04 i've learned a frightening amount about sed from this channel. 03:07:06 Ugh. 03:07:16 What did I even... 03:07:22 `run sed -i 's/exit/rm bin\/slist; exit/' bin/slist 03:07:24 No output. 03:07:43 `run cat bin/slist | r13 03:07:45 rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; ez ova/fyvfg \ Gnaro \ ngevd \ Atriq \ Svben \ abeggv \ Ftrb \ GungBgureCrefba \ nybg 03:07:48 it doesn't look like slist is actually over, just it only has one more run left 03:07:53 Right. 03:07:56 * elliott list lawyer 03:08:02 So now slist is set up to delete itself after that one more run. 03:08:04 Wait, "run" means more than one update? 03:08:08 All nice and tidy and completely reasonable. 03:08:15 oh, I see 03:08:16 Ugh. 03:08:21 it was added not replaced 03:08:28 `revert 03:08:31 Done. 03:08:32 no it was fine! 03:08:38 No, there was no "exit". 03:08:41 elliott you're ruining the whole system with your propaganda. 03:08:45 oh. 03:09:12 `run sed -i 's/exit/rm bin\/slist\; exit/' bin/slist 03:09:16 No output. 03:09:17 `run cat bin/slist | r13 03:09:19 rpub -a "$(onfranzr "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; gnvy -a+2 "$0" | knetf; ez ova/fyvfg; rkvg \ Gnaro \ ngevd \ Atriq \ Svben \ abeggv \ Ftrb \ GungBgureCrefba \ nybg 03:09:32 huh, what's ; do in sed 03:09:32 OK. 03:09:37 Separates statements? 03:09:46 Just like Perl. 03:09:48 how come it didn't tell you about an unterminated / then? 03:09:52 s i mean 03:09:54 Because you don't need a final / 03:10:05 `run echo abc | sed 's/b/q' 03:10:07 sed: -e expression #1, char 5: unterminated `s' command 03:10:10 Oh. 03:10:13 Maybe you do need it. 03:10:24 `run echo abc | sed 's/b/q; exit' 03:10:26 sed: -e expression #1, char 11: unterminated `s' command 03:10:28 `run echo abc | sed 's/b/q; exit/' 03:10:31 aq; exitc 03:10:33 see. 03:10:33 well, i guess ; terminates it. 03:10:38 help 03:10:43 btw it's great how basically every confusing thing about shell is due to mixing up strings and arguments and stuff 03:10:59 `run sed 's/exit/rm bin\/slist\; exit/' bin/slist | head -n1 03:11:01 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; rm bin/slist; rm bin/slist; exit 03:12:09 Hmm. 03:14:09 OK, where did the exit go? 03:14:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/fd7b8d987a01 03:15:53 what if we just execute taneb 03:16:30 Oh, that was just broken. 03:17:02 Or something? 03:17:20 `run sed 's/slist/slist\; exit/' bin/slist | head -n1 03:17:22 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; rm bin/slist; exit; exit 03:17:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:17:51 oh well i guess it's finenow. 03:18:26 why am i even aware of this slist thing 03:18:41 help 03:20:50 `pastelogs bike 03:21:25 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10413 03:22:11 er. 03:22:14 `pastequotes bike 03:22:20 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16742 03:22:30 -!- Uguubee111117 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111117). 03:30:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:34:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:45:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:56:48 -!- Uguubee111117 has joined. 04:02:26 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 04:03:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:04:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:07:57 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:10:44 -!- asie has joined. 04:22:23 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:34:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:34:59 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 04:50:41 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:53:06 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:58:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:38:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:41:43 447 and dead bodies, two great tastes that taste great together 06:12:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 06:19:51 `slist News: Gigapause 06:19:56 slist News: Gigapause: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:20:07 uh, sgeo. 06:20:29 It's of relevance to Homestuck readers 06:20:37 `cat bin/slist 06:20:39 cat: bin/slist: No such file or directory 06:20:43 you don't understand. 06:21:40 `revert 06:21:44 Done. 06:21:52 `cat bin/slist 06:21:53 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; rm bin/slist; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ Fiora \ nortti \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot 06:22:02 one more update, sgeo!! 06:23:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:25:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:29:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:30:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gbye). 06:47:20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renshaw_cell 06:58:45 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:59:00 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:11:51 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:13:18 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:13:18 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 07:13:18 -!- Zuu has joined. 07:20:45 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:29:35 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:49:50 ...I've been reading Homestuck for over 4 years 07:50:05 I've been reading Homestuck for over 20% of my life 08:10:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:10:45 helloerjan 08:11:50 kmc'day 08:19:44 how's it going 08:19:56 horrible as usual 08:21:44 You know everything goes wrong when I try to update anything? 08:22:04 Please be on standby 08:22:35 that's why i never update hth ​ 08:26:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:27:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:31:16 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:32:06 -!- ssue___ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:32:26 -!- ssue___ has joined. 08:54:31 drlemon: http://web.archive.org/web/20130917111816/http://fmota.eu/blog/base64-fixed-point.html <-- not the most archiveable page :( 08:55:51 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:56:09 The math seems to have a broken. 08:56:09 i think Taneb may have updated himself permanently off our channel 08:56:22 and the comments section isn't too good either :P 08:57:56 oklofok: btw i think this may mean base64 has an associated minimal shift system. 08:58:17 oklofok: you so idle 08:58:27 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Client Quit). 08:58:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:59:21 oerjan: Aren't you supposed to continue a start like that with some sort of a "your mom" joke? 08:59:36 it's _almost_ a substitution shift system, like thue-morse 09:00:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:06:41 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:24:40 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:49:07 -!- Uguubee111117 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:54:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:01:53 The other night for some reason I was at a Project Euler night 10:02:18 (where people get together and do Project Euler problem 10:02:19 Didn't know that was a thing. 10:03:09 s) 10:03:32 Anyway, someone was trying to do the first problem, really struggling with it 10:03:39 He had about 30 lines of C++ 10:04:09 *sigh* 10:04:10 Oh, it's that three-and-five thing. I've seen that in many places. 10:04:11 fire alarm 10:04:28 Oh, it stopped 10:04:29 Is the first one the one that's basically fizzbuzz? 10:04:36 YEah 10:04:44 Sum of all multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000. 10:04:49 We looked at him, and said "How?" 10:04:58 The person to the right of me had 8 lines of C++ 10:05:03 I had 1 line of Haskell 10:05:09 He had screenfuls 10:05:11 I think I solved that in J 10:05:19 or Haskell 10:10:24 > intercalate", "[case gcd x 15 of 3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";15->"Fizzbuzz";_->show x|x<-[1..]] 10:10:26 "1, 2, Fizz, 4, Buzz, Fizz, 7, 8, Fizz, Buzz, 11, Fizz, 13, 14, Fizzbuzz, 1... 10:12:09 ) i 15 10:12:22 no jconn 10:12:40 well i don't know J anyway. 10:15:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Doomy doom of doom). 10:16:54 +/ (* 0: = (3&| * 5&|)) i.1000 10:17:00 there's probably prettier ways to do it though.. 10:17:37 Oh, those inner parens aren't necessary I think 10:21:12 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:29:32 -!- carado has joined. 10:30:47 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 10:33:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:51:25 -!- ^v has joined. 11:15:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:26:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:27:10 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:30:46 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 11:31:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:35 -!- muskrat has joined. 11:44:56 -!- boily has joined. 11:45:04 -!- metasepia has joined. 11:48:49 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:14:29 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:21:10 -!- Taneb has changed nick to PopeMonad. 12:22:26 -!- PopeMonad has changed nick to Taneb. 12:22:57 -!- muskrat has joined. 12:37:28 good taneb-has-identity-troubles morning! 12:56:39 hmpf, I wanted to write the ackermann function in When 12:56:51 well this language is harder to use than I thought 12:57:29 (also there's no reference interpreter that I know of so I'm not even sure it should work the way I believe) 12:58:34 for instance, a rule is triggered everytime a variable in its predicate is assigned 12:59:04 but the variable value may have changed before the predicate is evaluated 12:59:37 * Koen_ hates queues 13:01:02 and the when operator is the only way to do branching; if you want to branch depending on the value of two variables, then the rule will be triggered twice... 13:07:45 I guess I should add some flag variable that basically says "don't compute anything until I confirm you can proceed" 13:10:18 queues are fun, when you have undergrad students implement them. 13:11:26 * Koen_ imagines boily queuing up students holding numbers 13:12:27 -!- yorick_ has joined. 13:13:43 Koen_: sadly, I didn't get to TA that class. would have been fun *evil smirk* 13:16:31 what if electronics stopped working and we had to go back to people computing stuff by hand 13:16:50 so you'd ask people to hold the numbers to execute your fueue program 13:17:09 -!- Taneb has changed nick to ysengrin. 13:17:15 -!- ysengrin has changed nick to Taneb. 13:17:31 that sounds like a very compelling argument to have a live #esoteric meet-up, with group activities, drinks, and computations! 13:19:13 Taneb: tell me more about yourselves. did you have a good relationship with your mother? how do you feel at the sight of mittens? if a scientist in a labcoat orders you to teach VB to an unsuspecting victim, will you comply? 13:21:12 I had a reasonable relationship of my mother 13:21:34 Mittens remind me of a cute pair I had when I was little that had like an elastic cord from one to the other so I wouldn't lose one 13:21:39 Which is actually a really good idea 13:22:39 If a scientist in a labcoat orders me to teach VB to an unsuspecting victim, I'd probably panic 13:23:37 * boily acquiesces and takes notes “hmm... hmm... please carry on...” 13:24:59 You see, I have a long-held fear of someone pointing out that I'm wrong about something I am supposed to have authority about 13:25:36 So if someone orders me to teach a topic to an unsuspecting victim who may know anything about that topic already, I will be terrified 13:25:47 your Fueue truth-machine was wrong 13:25:55 :O 13:26:20 Koen_, almost every Fueue program I have written is untested 13:26:25 though I guess it's okay to be wrong when oerjan is in the room 13:29:08 -!- carado has joined. 13:29:39 Koen_: but he's not there. who's the next oerjan-in-command? 13:30:22 -!- Uguubee111117 has joined. 13:31:15 we could appoint Fiora 13:31:23 ? 13:31:43 Fiora, you are now promoted to acting oerjan. Congratulations! 13:32:41 also he usually logbackread/readlogsback/whatever so if you misbehave in his name, HE'LL KNOW 13:33:59 what does that mean O_O 13:36:26 fungot: what does it mean, to be oerjan? 13:36:26 boily: don't you get it working 13:36:37 fungot: no I didn't, that's why I'm asking. 13:36:37 boily: i'm not really " ick" from a syntactic environment 13:37:13 Fiora: okay, so... I guess you can start by not being “ick”, from a syntactic environment. 13:37:55 fungot, I believe in you, can you tell us the answer? 13:37:55 Taneb: fnord... fnord whether that reflects your opinion in that debate well enough? :) i'm learning scheme and now 13:38:09 Fiora, learn scheme and now 13:38:26 what's an "ick"? 13:38:32 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:39:01 -!- carado has joined. 13:39:53 Fiora: a single-celled parasite, a church, a train-coach, a human protein or English slang. 13:45:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:54:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:05:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:17:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:20:46 -!- conehead has joined. 14:21:30 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:33:32 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:56:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:17:39 fungot: you seem rather "ick" to me... 15:17:39 FireFly: last time i had a hard time 15:17:45 fungot: I'm sorry 15:17:46 FireFly: the page doesn't appear here at all, should it end up?! :) http://list.cs.brown.edu/ pipermail/ gambit-list/ 2005-may/ fnord 15:23:11 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:26:02 `pastlog PLORTS 15:26:35 No output. 15:31:38 `pastequote 15:31:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found 15:31:43 `pastequotes 15:31:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17624 15:39:00 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:44:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:52:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:57:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:01:20 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:17:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:19:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:20:00 Also an INTERCAL kompiler, of course. 16:28:38 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 16:30:30 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 16:33:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:35:59 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:40:42 INTERCAL compiler kludge 16:49:44 it's freezing in here. as a developer, I can't be expected to have good blood circulation! 16:51:56 I hear coffee can be used as an anticoagulant. 16:52:16 boily: but maybe you can be expected to adapt your clothing after temperature? 16:52:48 ideally houses should take care of that, but sadly houses are frequently imperfect 16:52:54 I hear infinite loops work wonders 16:53:55 Netburst jokes aren't as hot as they used to be. 16:55:35 -!- muskrat has joined. 16:55:51 olsner: I'm at work, and forgot my hoodie at home. 16:57:03 boily: you should be fired for such a basic lapse in competence 16:57:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:58:00 olsner: I'd like being fired. that'd raise my body temperature enough that I can still feel my fingertips, and get to code. 16:59:17 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 16:59:25 hmm, I guess that backfired 16:59:51 boily, huddle for warmth with your fellow programmers 17:00:41 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:00:53 my fellow programmer went for lunch. the next fellogrammer is too far away (about 2.5 m West) 17:01:20 > west 17:01:21 Not in scope: `west' 17:01:21 Perhaps you meant `nest' (imported from Text.PrettyPr... 17:01:23 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 17:01:30 > neset 17:01:31 Not in scope: `neset' 17:01:31 Perhaps you meant `nest' (imported from Text.PrettyP... 17:01:34 > nest 17:01:35 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable 17:01:35 Text.P... 17:01:36 boily: why didn't you go for lunch? 17:01:54 olsner: I got done with lunch about half an hour ago. 17:02:15 (delicious curry chicken and eggplant ratatouille over rice) 17:02:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:02:37 Ooh, I should start thinking about dinner 17:02:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:02:46 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 17:03:29 boily: aha! you *are* the man eating chicken 17:05:36 something something stupid chicken quote something something... 17:05:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:06:48 Taneb, this has to be a record for shortest-lived succession fort 17:09:05 elliott, 17:09:07 elliott, 17:09:08 elliott, 17:09:39 Phantom__Hoover, in other news, me and one of my friends may have started a University of York Homestuck society 17:10:15 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 17:10:35 Taneb: did you just use “elliott,” as a punctuation symbol? 17:10:46 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 17:11:30 Taneb, can i join 17:11:34 do you have any events 17:12:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:12:31 boily, it served two purposes 17:12:35 Phantom___Hoover, yes, and yes 17:12:47 We've got a meet-up on the 30th at 19:30 17:12:54 that's not a real event 17:13:00 Okay, then no 17:13:07 We don't even have a name yet 17:13:35 the nicholas cage appreciation society 17:14:12 :D 17:16:49 -!- Bike has joined. 17:17:30 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:18:25 -!- Uguubee111117 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:36:24 Taneb, just take the fort for god's saaaake 17:37:12 Ugh, fine 17:37:26 Figure out a way to transfer it 17:38:02 But I kind of want to eat and watch Agents of Shield 17:38:10 do all three at once 17:38:35 you can mute the dialogue of agents of shield, that way you can listen to DF's soundtrack rather than whedon's dialogue 17:38:56 But I watch Agents of Shield in the common room! 17:39:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:39:16 And I'm not moving my desktop a mile and a half just to play video games while I watch TV 17:40:07 what the fuck how are your halls laid out 17:40:20 I'm slightly off-campus 17:40:40 York's accommodation was over-subscribed 17:40:52 i remember that now 17:41:04 +/ (* 0: = (3&| * 5&|)) i.1000 <-- i sense a lack of fizz and buzz. 17:41:06 same thing happened at warwick, apparently they changed the clearing rules for this year 17:41:20 But as it happens the halls are laid out in a really stupid way anyway 17:41:38 oerjan: that gives the sum of numbers in [0,1000) divisible by 3 och 5 (project euler task 1) 17:41:44 ah. 17:41:56 err, or* 17:42:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: food). 17:43:14 ic 17:43:58 > sum [n|n<-[0..1000],gcd n 15>1] 17:43:59 234168 17:44:02 isn't och supposed to be “and”, not “or”? 17:44:14 boily: i was trying not to mention that. 17:44:51 oerjan: je vois. 17:45:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:45:52 @tell Taneb here's your save http://www.filedropper.com/showdownload.php/region3 17:45:52 Consider it noted. 17:46:26 i had a vague sense that the distinction is slightly different than in english, so that it's not _entirely_ wrong to use och. although not wise in math. 17:46:47 also that maybe it's not clear in english either, outside math. 17:47:24 it's basically about how much of the phrase and/or/och/eller distribute over 17:47:47 well, I meant to write or 17:50:57 and/or/och/eller/pis/oubedon 17:51:42 wtf language is that 17:51:56 horrible, terrible, vernacular Québec French. 17:52:26 shocking 17:52:40 i guess i recognized the "ou" part. 17:53:12 «oubedon» is «ou bien donc» mashed, mangled, corrupted and otherwise blended with a lawnmower. 17:53:49 well that's no worse than what happened when french got made in the first place. 17:55:09 i recall reading some claim that if you ignore the writing system, french is a highly agglutinative language. although i also recall disagreement with that. 17:55:43 like, "je" is basically a subject prefix. 17:56:15 i would have thought somebody would have noticed romance grammar being agglutinative 17:56:46 well it was french only, not the other ones. 17:57:11 i mean italian still frequently _drops_ the equivalent word to je (io) 17:57:27 and i think spanish is the same 17:57:56 but french has mushed its original suffixes so much that it needs to keep the pronouns. 17:58:52 especially when pronounced. 18:01:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:03:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:43 although e.g. german keeps the pronouns even if it has most of the suffixes left to do without them. 18:07:33 -!- Bike has joined. 18:08:24 what's an "ick"? <-- the C-INTERCAL compiler iirc 18:09:07 -!- Uguubee111117 has joined. 18:09:31 * oerjan keeps wondering if Uguubee111117 is Kjugobe's evil twin. 18:13:08 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:14:09 (delicious curry chicken and eggplant ratatouille over rice) <-- wait i thought quebec didn't have proper french cuisine. 18:14:29 i guess that's not very french, mind. 18:14:36 except the ratatouille. 18:15:14 *é 18:19:43 French is I think the only romance language that retains extensive pronoun usage. 18:20:11 and I'm a man eating chicken of the World. 18:21:06 `? boily 18:21:12 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser. 18:21:13 with written French, you *could* drop pronouns and maybe lose a little bit of information, but it's impossible with spoken French. 18:22:13 `run sed -i 's/ser./ser, and a Man Eating Chicken./' wisdom/boily 18:22:18 No output. 18:22:24 `? boily 18:22:27 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken. 18:27:23 -!- oerjan has set topic: The how-to guide to changing the topic | PDF yourself: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:28:02 the old topic was starting to smell. 18:28:57 -!- boily has set topic: The how-to guide to changing the topic with perfume | PDF yourself: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:29:07 oerjan: there. much better, eh? 18:29:34 that doesn't _reduce_ smell, boily. 18:30:07 think of the allergic. 18:31:19 -!- boily has set topic: The how-to guide to changing the topic with environmentally friendly hypoallergenic perfume | PDF yourself: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:31:51 and then you're going to point out that perfume is a known carcinogen or something like that, aren't you? 18:32:25 nah the fetal matter in it actually prevents cancer. 18:33:07 no worries. 18:33:42 how about hyperallergenic perfume 18:33:43 fœtal, or fecal? 18:33:52 kmc: patchouli. 18:38:43 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 18:39:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:39:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 18:40:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:48:56 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 18:50:38 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 18:56:20 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 18:56:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:49 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 18:58:03 boily: fœtal 18:58:22 18:31:51: and then you're going to point out that perfume is a known carcinogen or something like that, aren't you? 18:58:27 * Phantom___Hoover mumbles something about benzene 18:59:14 -!- Phantom___Hoover has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 19:05:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:09:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:14:20 -!- conehead has joined. 19:14:33 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:18:29 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:18:57 people always complain about patchouli, but I think I never smelled it. 19:20:36 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:24:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:37:45 -!- Bike has joined. 19:49:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:51:36 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 19:51:48 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 19:51:57 fizzie: there's now a #rust-osdev (on irc.mozilla.org) and https://github.com/mozilla/rust/wiki/Operating-system-development 19:52:07 i'm sure they'd like to chat about Rust on Xen 19:52:30 have the rust-osdev people met the nodejs-osdev ones? 19:53:30 jsrust 19:54:00 boily: I... didn't know there was such a group 19:54:30 i like 19:54:38 kmc: I'm just naming it like that. there was that recent article about that Visionary Guy who Never Wrote Oses and would very much like write one with Nodejs. 19:55:43 can anyone explain electricity to me. i'm dyin here 19:56:11 Bike: electron movement. 19:56:24 am I an absurd person for writing things like "$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")")/foo" 19:56:34 is there A Better Way for a shell script to refer to another file in the same directory as the script? 19:56:41 Bike: including stuff that makes electrons move, but I can't explain that part because it makes my head hurt. 19:56:55 well yeah but like how come voltage is a difference in potential and then in circuits you talk about "voltage at a point". 19:57:14 kmc: ./foo? 19:57:29 voltage at a point is an abuse of language. the reference in that case is implicit, and is the ground. 19:58:18 it's a really confusing abuse of language ;_; 19:58:31 myname: my working directory might not be the directory where the script lives 19:58:34 I know. took me ages to understand that one, and I'm a certified engineer. 19:58:36 ah 19:58:49 that helps though. probably. 20:00:03 for example, take a simple circuit with an AA battery and a light. the + pole is said to be “at 1.5 V [relatively to the ground]”. 20:00:28 because relating potential difference to the ground is the most common case, it gets thrown out because it is generally understood. 20:00:58 so that means that moving a a coulomb's worth of electrons from ground to that pole would take 1.5 J, right? 20:01:34 yup. it's the difference that is measurable, therefore we use volts. 20:01:56 we don't know the starting point, we don't know the end point, but we know the difference between them is 1.5 J/C. 20:02:42 and the battery, through chemical work, is able to add that amount of energy per «paquet d'électrons». 20:02:55 thus, electromotive force. 20:02:58 right, right, i've seen everything saying that about difference, and that's all well and good, and then they kind of ignore it. 20:02:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:04:00 it's even more confusing when, say, you have your nice DC circuit going on, and then you decide to plug it into the mains with a diode bridge. 20:04:15 those are words you have arranged into a sentence. 20:04:44 would you like it to be translated in French? I can garantee it's going to make as much sense. 20:04:50 ;_; 20:05:11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge 20:08:24 if you're running Linux, you should try ktechlab. 20:09:04 hm. probably not. seems to be pretty much dead, and running on qt3. 20:09:23 I wonder if there are any easy-to-use electronics simulators out there... 20:09:33 * kmc solves the problem a different way 20:12:42 boily: btw iirc the fact that you cannot determine more than differences in potential gives rise through noether's theorem to the conservation of charge. 20:14:17 basically, adding any constant to all potentials is a symmetry. 20:14:39 well, element of a symmetry group. 20:15:03 now you're losing me. maths and me makes 3. 20:16:34 OKAY 20:16:57 Bike: http://123d.circuits.io/ ← looks interesting. 20:17:04 i'm already too demoralized 20:17:20 noooooooo! 20:17:47 noether's theorem is a wonderful theorem in physics that says that global symmetries imply conserved physical quantities. 20:18:11 the fact you can only measure _position_ relatively, for example, gives the conservation of momentum. 20:18:24 and in a sense, time gives energy. 20:19:13 ... 20:19:17 ...??? 20:19:19 and rotation/direction gives angular momentum. 20:19:45 i'd be a lot better off if i could understand a tenth of everything noether did 20:20:12 * Bike bookmarks link for some later time when he's not drowning in his own failure 20:20:25 although the time one is sort of circular, i think, because this is all based on a formalism where you base physics on an energy function (the lagrangian or hamiltonian) 20:20:53 Bike: do you include the algebra work in that? :D 20:21:03 Fiora: ↑ I think you have a nice example here of what it is to be oerjan. 20:21:11 @_____@ 20:21:12 Unknown command, try @list 20:21:13 oh dear 20:21:46 oerjan: obviously. 20:21:54 Fiora: note that i cannot actually use these formalisms myself. never had a proper mechanics course. 20:22:03 when i think noether i think conservation and something about chains. 20:22:10 -!- ^v has joined. 20:22:39 I should bring my bro to this chännel again. he could strike interesting conversations with oerjan about that physics/mathematics stuff. 20:22:46 so like, how does relative position thingy imply momentum conservation? 20:23:01 aliens. 20:23:02 because i don't recall noether did much _other_ than her famous theorem that was in physics. 20:23:25 Fiora: er, math. 20:23:34 lol. 20:23:46 you do an integral iirc. 20:24:32 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 20:24:40 oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AllPages&from=Noether&to=Noggin_%28TV_channel%29 20:25:28 i guess some of these are max. 20:25:28 Fiora: oh also in case you don't already, maybe you'd like to know that noether was a woman. 20:25:50 I knew that bit ^^; though I really should learn more about her 20:26:20 i think she's considered the greatest woman mathematician in history so far. 20:26:50 -!- carado_ has changed nick to carado. 20:30:03 Bike: i also think the italic ones may be redirects? 20:30:19 what ever 20:32:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:32:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken chicken, rechicken but not chicken och chicken). 20:32:40 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:03 * oerjan had to check euler, that was over a page 20:34:41 noether has done less math than euler and i have done less biology than darwin, yes 20:38:22 darwin has a bit more, but i think many of those are just named in honor of him 20:55:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:55:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:56:57 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:04:27 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:06:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:06:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:09:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:13:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:20:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:22:23 kmc: when I've tried to write stuff like "$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$0")")/foo" it has usually fallen on the lack of a useful and portable readlink program that is likely to be installed on the user's system 21:24:50 but to answer the actual question: yes, trying to solve a problem "correctly" is weird, normal people just throw together some half-assed broken solution like ./foo or $(dirname $0) 21:24:57 or even simply requiring that the script is run from a particular working directory 21:25:59 also I'm bored 21:26:23 I tend to symlink scripts around 21:26:26 sorry you're bored olsner 21:27:12 so like, how does relative position thingy imply momentum conservation? 21:27:22 it's all lagrangian mechanics or something 21:27:32 -!- Bike has joined. 21:27:32 olsner: and yeah, istr that readlink -f doesn't work on OS X 21:27:43 why can't everyone use Debian ._. 21:28:10 like any symmetry in the laws of physics maps to a conservation law 21:28:27 i had to find a 1941 journal volume for something and it says that it cost $3 per volume for a subscription. 21:28:32 this is bullshit, modern world 21:28:51 (oerjan said the same thing, damn him) 21:29:55 Apparently that's around $48 in modern USD, christ. 21:30:32 Phantom_Hoover: i don't think you can blame me when i actually started the conversation. 21:31:02 tru fax 21:31:19 i blame you even more 21:31:44 that way lies disaster, Phantom_Hoover 21:47:03 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:56:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:59:57 Does anyone know where I could get a set of gears to play with? With stuff like differentials or gearboxes. 22:00:12 3D printer 22:00:58 huh, scbearhol has a ceramics printer 22:01:01 school* 22:01:04 no bears i think 22:01:33 that's a furry typo 22:11:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:11:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 22:11:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:14:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:16:47 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:31:50 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:37:53 the library has Serbian mathematical journals from the seventies, and I just happened to pick the one that mentioned Aczel. 22:42:18 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:44:24 Bike, fucking aczel, right 22:44:52 right, right 22:45:33 i think it's the same one anyway, i don't know why else you'd write about... "saturated theories" 22:46:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:46:59 yesterday in my kitchen there was a discussion of Kant and RMS and it was decided that RMS doesn't understand Kant 22:47:12 i don't understand kant either. 22:47:18 omg me too bike 22:47:18 Ugh, I'm ill 22:47:22 :( 22:47:24 what kind? 22:47:39 A coldy thing 22:47:51 Blocked nose, headache, the air tastes wrong 22:47:56 fresher's flu is, i believe, the medical term 22:48:05 Occasional throaty cough 22:48:19 i don't feel so bad about it because hegel seems to have understood kant weirdly. of course i don't understand hegel either. 22:48:25 i kant understand why 22:48:32 (i only got it in term two) 22:48:55 because hegel's writing style is difficult and he called india a faeryland, oerjan. 22:49:17 Also I think I've turned Les Miserables into a comfort film 22:49:55 maybe he couldn't stand kant because of his dialectic 22:50:50 Today's stupid program: HTK. 22:50:53 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:51:14 is there a film called Les Comfortables that you can use to get misery 22:51:54 "FillTabFromParm: cannot convert MELSPEC to MFCC_D_A_Z_0" 22:52:22 There's no sensible reason why not, except that the code is a steaming pile of a turd. 22:52:32 i can categorically say that it's imperative to understand kant. 22:54:47 that is the strongest thing i have ever heard fizzie say 22:54:59 -!- drlemon_ has joined. 22:56:00 somefunction(float *data) { ... float *fp = data-1; for (i=1;i<=nframes;i++) ... fp[i] ... } I honestly thought the "let's make 1-indexed arrays by pointing pointers one before the start" thing was an urban legend or something. 22:56:10 was that a scary few minutes without me? 22:56:11 (It's a pervasive idiom in this codebase.) 22:57:16 drlemon_: yeah fizzie was telling horror stories 22:57:31 -!- drlemon_ has changed nick to drlemon. 22:57:34 test 22:57:39 ok, nickname is back 22:57:43 fizzie: my goodness. 22:58:01 fizzie: iirc that's actually undefined behaviour or something! 22:58:08 but what isn't 23:01:15 Bike: It also uses a "Vector" datatype everywhere for "N floats plus a size"; that's implemented by a typedef float *Vector; and allocating (N+1)*sizeof(float) bytes, then doing *(int *)vector = N; to store the size in the memory that should be occupied by the first float, and then using vector[1] .. vector[N] for the actual storage. 23:01:42 help. 23:02:37 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 23:04:51 Bike: There's also a SVector type that allocates 2*sizeof(Ptr)+(N+1)*sizeof(float) bytes, puts two pointers in the beginning and then the contents of a Vector after, and returns a pointer there in the middle so that you can still use it as svector[1]..svector[N]. 23:05:22 But also ((Ptr*)svector)[-1] and [-2] to get at those pointers. 23:05:24 ;_; 23:05:30 All this makes for very clean code. 23:07:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:08:20 http://sprunge.us/AbIj is another end result. 23:20:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: You want me topic what?). 23:21:16 http://sprunge.us/fLib yes that is good thing. 23:31:22 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:35:22 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 23:35:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:36:08 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:36:19 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:40:32 fizzie, jesus, it's like this code has... broken you 23:40:57 wait but it's not MATLAB anymore 23:41:23 the matlab is coming from inside the c 23:43:16 that's where most things come from 23:43:17 ultimately 23:43:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:45:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSX3piF5ww8 23:45:45 i... want to get soundsense now 23:49:01 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:49:36 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Client Quit). 23:50:04 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:50:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:50:18 nooodl: It's not UB if you actually allocate space there! :P 23:50:52 However, that (int*) cast actually *does* invoke UB. 23:51:34 I think dynamic typing in and of itself doesn't bother me as much as the idiotic API design decisions that dynamic typing often acts as an enabler for 23:51:36 "N floats plus a size" should be a typedef struct {size_t size; float array[]} *Vector; 23:51:51 sure, if you're a wuss 23:51:56 "This argument can be returned directly from the function if this other thing isn't found. Unless the argument is a function, in which case it will be called" 23:52:00 THat sort of thing 23:52:11 yeah, that sucks. 23:52:18 * Sgeo glares at Racket 23:52:33 probably your mindset is what led to the "bondage and discipline typing" joke. 23:52:37 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/hashtables.html?q=hash-ref#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._hash-ref%29%29 23:52:52 Anyway. Does anyone know of a mathematician named Holden. Probably early 20th century, worked in analysis. 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:53:11 Although at least in that case it's possible to write code that safely does what you want without needing to check types yourself 23:53:13 Sgeo: lol nice. 23:53:24 * Sgeo glares at Clojure's trampoline 23:54:02 uncited references suck. 23:54:05 http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/trampoline 23:54:19 "Note that if you want to return a fn as a 23:54:19 final value, you must wrap it in some data structure and unpack it 23:54:19 after trampoline returns." 23:54:32 Oh. it's at typo for Holder. Fuckin ggreat 23:55:12 I think it might be crashing due to MAX_PATH. 23:55:15 And I can't correct the author because they have been dead for fifty years. 23:55:17 MATH IS HARD 23:55:58 See, I have this file list, it's at /akulabra/projects/T40511/htkallas/reverb-challenge/sys/asr/lib_revmask_a19_b0p43_g1p4_bcmi_N1000_G5_T5_norm0_MFCC_0_D_A_Z_CEPLIFTER_1/flists/reverbWSJcam0/revmask_a19_b0p43_g1p4_bcmi_N1000_G5_T5_norm0_MFCC_0_D_A_Z_CEPLIFTER_1.lst 23:56:08 And some might consider that as a long path. 23:56:36 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:57:56 It doesn't crash when I run it single-tasked; the parallelization introduces a couple more hoops to jump through, could be that pushes it over the edge. 23:57:56 "The Poincaré-Bendixson theorem for the Klein bottle" must be the most useful article in history