00:10:52 ion, I'm on now :) 00:11:12 Had to add "10.10.10.1 fragsoc" to /etc/hosts 00:32:20 Now please look at the HWPL again; I have fixed a lot of things and added some things. Is it good now? Is there anything missing or otherwise incorrect in it? 00:34:35 Now the SPLIT block has the format: SPLIT [LTR|RTL] vec [BY num|IN HALF] AS var: statement [ELSE: statement] 00:34:45 Is this good enough? 00:38:20 Also, I have allowed a CASE statement to have a label attached. 01:00:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:05:10 Things needed may be CMOS models, analog wiring, and foreign function interface. 01:05:19 Do you have any suggestions for this? 01:36:05 -!- muskrat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:47:26 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:58:22 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:04:04 http://www.reddit.com/r/ScienceImages/comments/1obt00/homemade_double_slit_experiment_not_the_most/ 02:04:36 isn't there a bot here that can do unit conversion 02:04:49 how many pounds is 40 Gg? 02:09:35 fizzie, I'm overtired enough to work on a Haskell port of mcmap 02:10:05 Or overviewer? 02:13:01 -!- muskrat has joined. 02:31:20 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 02:37:48 Do you like my kind of idea of text adventure game? 02:45:11 Can a SDL window be opened by a extension library or only the main program is SDL based? 02:45:25 zzo38: it can be opened by an extension library 02:45:34 you have to define something in the C source files, though 02:45:45 SDL_MAIN_HANDLED 02:45:47 before including the header 02:45:58 that means that SDL won't try to provide its own main 02:47:21 If you do that then if another program loads a .dll or .so file that opens a SDL window, then will it work OK? What need to be done to continue the other program to run when the window is not open (or even if the window is open)? Is simply to SDL_Init() and SDL_Quit() and then the caller can continue, would it works? 02:48:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:49:06 Is anything else of concerned? 02:51:41 ais523: it doesn't any more, as of SDL 2 02:51:58 elliott: this is for SDL 2 02:52:05 but only on Windows, Android, iPhone 02:52:09 on other pltforms it doesn't matter 02:53:01 hmm, okay 02:53:12 Actually I think I am using an older version of SDL anyways, but hopefully should it work OK either way? 02:53:24 SDL < 2 does funky things with main 02:53:28 you need to call its main 02:53:47 ais523: do you have a source for Android and iPhone? it says it's just about WinMain() in http://wiki.libsdl.org/MigrationGuide 02:53:58 elliott: the source of the header files themselves 02:54:07 fair enough 02:54:21 Weird, I thought it only provided a WinMain on Windows, so you could just use main? 02:54:37 What does SDL's main do? 02:54:57 -!- muskrat_ has joined. 02:55:14 pikhq: it provides equivalents in Java and Objective-C for Android and for iPhone 02:55:16 -!- muskrat has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:55:21 -!- muskrat_ has changed nick to muskrat. 02:56:27 Objective-C is a strict superset of C, so you should be able to use an existing C program and just write the stuff to wrap them in Objective-C objects, isn't it? 02:57:36 Does GCC or LLVM target Dalvik yet? 03:07:26 I wanted to know this about SDL because I wanted to make up a SQL extension library for graphics, so that you can write something like SELECT XYPLOT(`TIME`,`SPACE`) FROM `THINGS` ORDER BY `TIME`; and make it plot the graph of the data. 03:08:00 (The "XYPLOT" here is a aggregate.) 03:08:57 ais523: Ah. So, you can just write "int main()" everywhere and it'll work, but if you do fancier stuff it'll cause issues? 03:09:00 Or perhaps XYPLOT just returns a picture, and then another function SHOW takes a picture and displays it. 03:10:53 pikhq: yes 03:11:20 Okay, that actually makes sense. 03:11:30 I'm not 100% sure it belong in SDL, but eh. 03:19:56 Fiora, http://31.media.tumblr.com/f8e08e23c7819fc749d1d45ae719d38b/tumblr_mtjnvzKW9E1sq11yeo1_500.jpg 03:20:27 :< 03:20:28 `quote usb sushi 03:20:29 that's evil 03:20:30 827) what does it mean for a pencil to be turing complete.... monqy: it's the same concept as USB sushi, really \ 828) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it 03:20:46 wow, two USB sushi quotes. 03:21:12 they were at the same time, I think? 03:49:04 Is there other way I could support graphics with SQL? 04:03:38 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:11:25 that sushi does look pretty good. 04:12:54 I noticed in this computer I have a file with list of Pokemon battle rules that I and my brother made up, including time controls, financial controls, tie breakers, and various other things. 04:13:29 was there a subprime mortgage crisis in hoenn 04:13:39 For example, one option is this: SURRENDER COMMAND = BATTLE | MATCH 04:14:39 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111116). 04:16:15 There is even such thing as doubling cube 04:17:34 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 04:20:25 INVALID TARGET CORRECTION = AUTO SAME SIDE | AUTO ANY SIDE | MISS | PROMPT | USER FAINTS | LOSE BATTLE | DISQUALIFY I believe "AUTO SAME SIDE" is used in the official games, although I prefer "MISS" instead. 04:21:01 What is your preference for such things? 04:24:27 zzo38: I believe the official game actually uses auto same side if possible, otherwise random opponent 04:24:58 and the same side behaviour is important, it means that you can hedge against unknown EVs on the opponent via double-targeting and knowing that the second attack will shift if necessary 04:25:05 so I'm happy with the official rules 04:25:30 Some people might not always be so here I specified a lot of possibilities. 04:25:35 it'd remove a layer of strategy to do the vast majority of those possibilities 04:26:26 OK 04:26:52 What strategy do you think would be different with each one? 04:33:50 zzo38: double-targeting would only be valuable under prompt or auto same side, unless you were confident that it would KO 04:33:55 err, not KO without it 04:34:33 it's risky enough as it is because of Protect, and it just wouldn't work under almost all those rules 04:34:48 There is also self-destruct, though 04:35:01 But yes I believe you are correct in general 04:35:25 ever since the nerf in gen V, selfdestruct hasn't done enough damage to be useful, and it hits everything so there's no invalid target correction anyway 04:35:55 base 200 of (nearly always) the wrong type is like base 133 STAB 04:36:12 which is only slightly higher than the top attackers would be doing anyway, and the drawback's really large 04:36:18 if it's not oneshotting things, you wouldn't use it 04:36:21 and it doesn't oneshot things 04:36:23 I mean if the target uses selfdestruct and goes first 04:37:07 if you thought that would happen, you'd just use Protect 04:38:56 But what if you didn't think that would happen (but it happen anyways) or if you don't have Protect? 04:41:26 if you didn't think it would happen, you probably weren't strategizing for it 04:41:39 and in doubles, it's quite rare to not have Protect, and if you do, you're probably going all-in on going first 04:41:42 so the target isn't going first 04:41:49 err, if you do go without Protect 04:42:08 finally, if the opponent's using Selfdestruct, it's going to be because they think it's a KO 04:42:16 so it probably will be a KO, and you won't be able to attack anyway 04:43:25 If the invalid target correction is set to USER FAINTS, LOSE BATTLE, or DISQUALIFY, and they have the ability to go first, then they will use it even if it isn't a KO, just to trick you 04:44:09 yes, but those settings are silly 04:44:31 with lose battle / disqualify, you'd get a free win with encore/memento and a wobbuffet 04:45:02 which is as stupid, as combos go, as the one where you use serene grace blissey in order to trick the opponent into breaking sleep clause 04:45:09 (I actually did use serene grace blissey, but not for that reason) 04:45:21 Then for what reason? 04:46:46 so that I could get it paralyzed and it couldn't get poisoned after that 04:46:55 or, in general, I could switch it into status moves to protect it from toxic poison 04:47:02 sleep and toxic poison are huge problems for blissey 04:47:15 and toxic spikes will toxic poison it on every switch in 04:47:25 here is a pokemon art http://evandahm.tumblr.com/post/63890319543/ 04:47:26 but getting it paralyzed avoids that problem 04:47:40 also it gave a higher chance of freezing with ice beam, which is always nice 04:47:49 and helped save on PP due to the paralysis 04:48:08 so it tends to win long drawn-out battles 04:49:40 my blissey was almost invincible against just about anything that wasn't able to kill it within 2 turns 04:52:01 or toxic poison / sleep it 04:53:30 What game, Pokemon? 04:53:43 How much do you expect use of doubling cube to affect the game? 04:58:39 What about formats for creating the team? There is official, custom data, rental, random, random rental, duplicate random rental, and you could have drafts and auctions too. 04:58:45 Sgeo: yes 04:59:02 zzo38: doubling cube works much the same way in any game 04:59:06 (The first two formats are Constructed and the others are Limited.) 05:00:56 In Magic: the Gathering, Official and Custom Data would correspond to Standard and Proxy. 05:01:22 Is that it? 05:02:08 ais523: How do you think it is affecting pokemon game specifically though, what kind of strategies may differ as a result? 05:02:32 Seven hundred and sixty one armless and legless corpses float inconspicuously around the inside of hangar ninety six. I say that they are inconspicuous because it is their arms and legs which demand my attention. 05:02:55 zzo38: I don't think it'd affect it in any specific way compared to other games 05:08:19 Which formats do you prefer, Constructed, Limited, or both? (I always play the Limited formats myself, both in Magic: the Gathering and in Pokemon.) 05:10:36 What time controls do you use? 05:11:25 novikov self-consistency 05:13:46 In a match consisting of multiple battles, there are even more things to consider: DELETE FAINTED POKEMON = NO | YES DELETED POKEMON GO TO OPPONENT'S COMPUTER = NO | YES SURRENDER COMMAND = BATTLE | MATCH POKEMON CENTER PRICE = PROHIBIT | REQUIRE | 0..99999 and of course the doubling cube is also one thing that applies to a match of multiple battles. 05:14:59 Such things as interest rates and inflation rates would also apply in such case if money is being used. 05:16:12 How do you expect these to affect strategies? 05:37:20 I made up a kind of Pokemon mahjong. It includes typed and typeless wildcards (typeless wildcards are only dealt after a drawn game and otherwise unused). There are two kind of sequences possible (numeric and evolutionary). A called set ("chii" or "pon") has to be unambiguous; for example, [2,joker,fire] is unambiguous, but [4,joker,fire] is ambiguous (it may represent [3,4,5], [4,5,6], or [4,4,4]), and [1,joker,fire] is not valid. 05:37:50 (It is OK for a closed set to be ambiguous.) 05:39:03 ([3,joker,fire] is also ambiguous; it represents either [2,3,4] or [3,4,5], but not [3,3,3]. If you understand Pokemon then you should understand this!) 05:40:40 I don't understand this. 05:40:51 Do you understand Pokemon? 05:41:59 What part did you not quite understand? 05:44:14 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:48:16 Also, [1,2,joker] is unambiguous, [2,3,joker] is ambiguous, and [150,151,joker] is unambiguous in first generation but ambiguous in later generations. Hopefully this is clear enough, since there is no zero (if there is then clearly it is ambiguous). 05:53:57 -!- Bike has joined. 06:05:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:09:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:10:01 Mornin', PH 06:11:10 wtf are you doing up at this hour 06:11:31 LAN party 06:11:39 oh, that thing 06:12:11 Been playing Guns of Icarus Online 06:16:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jd-iaYLO1A 06:16:35 (US-politics related) 06:24:52 @tell quintopia isn't there a bot here that can do unit conversion <-- yes, `frink on HackEgo 06:24:52 Consider it noted. 06:25:11 `frink 40 Gg -> pound 06:25:31 4000000000000000/45359237 (approx. 8.818490487395103e7) 06:28:16 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:28:40 @tell quintopia `frink 40 Gg -> pound 06:28:40 Consider it noted. 06:30:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:38:56 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:13:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 07:34:31 say, how many years should I renew my domain for 07:34:42 I can go up to 9 07:36:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:38:14 Gracenotes: I went for 3 because I got a discount on that 07:38:35 I doubt it matters much, though 07:38:42 so long as you know you're going to hold onto it 07:43:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:44:25 I ended up choosing 3 because it looks like it's a magic number, but I think the cost for me scales up proportionally 07:46:29 if I die and my domain expires shortly after, surely that will be sad, but I won't be around for it. 08:07:29 clearly what we need is for people to pay for the next period 3 years before the previous runs out. 08:09:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:19:53 I'm losing my battle against sleep 08:20:32 @localtime Taneb 08:20:32 Local time for Taneb is Sun Oct 13 09:20:33 08:20:49 lies 08:21:05 I've been awake for ~24 hours 08:21:53 did you code and lose track of time? 08:22:10 ...er, jeez, it's 1:21AM here. when did that happen. 08:22:46 LAN party 08:24:13 after about 4 years of thinking about doing so, I'm writing an HTML page about all of the projects I've done 08:24:22 :D 08:24:28 or, at least starting to. I think I've started to before. 08:24:41 mostly a lot of technical reports that I have no reason not to publish. 08:25:27 maybe it's a bit against the point that I'm only starting to do this now that I'm gainfully employed. 08:32:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:32:50 -!- carado has joined. 08:34:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 08:41:21 (yeah, partly in that sharing ideas is nicer when you have mostly-unstructured free time...) 08:50:47 Every time I see a polished sphere I get this urge to photograph it. (Cf. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131013-balls.jpg for example.) 08:55:24 Also https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131013-balls2.jpg and so on and so forth. 08:57:59 ha ha, balls 08:59:10 help 08:59:23 if fizzie ever meets a disco ball we won't see him again. 08:59:45 oerjan: I own a disco ball, yet here I am. 09:00:14 oh right, you solved the problem by bringing it with you. fiendish. 09:00:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:00:51 Taneb: what seems to be the problem. 09:01:11 oerjan, i slightly haven't slept 09:01:32 ic. we shall use the ancient and tried procedure for this. 09:01:37 Taneb: GO TO BED 09:01:41 oerjan, NO 09:01:53 Bed's a mile away 09:02:00 this is the slight problem with the ancient and tried procedure. 09:02:06 Taneb: GO TO SLEEPING BAG 09:02:09 And I'd need to cart my desktop over 09:02:15 I didn't bring one! 09:02:24 Taneb: YOU ARE A FOOL 09:02:39 ALSO DOOMED 09:03:24 * oerjan has vague memories of the local (tabletop) gamer's con. 09:03:49 and of sleeping on mats, maybe. 09:03:56 Taneb: GO TO UNDER TABLE 09:03:57 Since my last sleep, I have consumed one bowl of cereal, one hot chocolate, one 500ml bottle of coca cola, one packet of crisps, and a lot of water 09:04:10 fizzie, LATER 09:04:26 So, I'm cold, hungry, overtired, and something else 09:04:33 Smelly, perhaps? 09:04:41 Taneb: i now also have vagure memories of the cuisine at the con. you might try a sausage if they have them. 09:05:45 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:05:51 The only consumables they provide seem to be a ridiculous high-energy slushy thing 09:06:04 * oerjan also has vague memories of the second con where he gave up and went home to sleep. 09:07:33 my memory is too vague to tell whether i returned after sleeping or not. 09:18:08 lol you used to be such a nerd 09:18:32 what were you like at lan parties 09:18:37 i'm still a nerd. 09:18:46 i never went to a lan party that i can recall 09:18:58 i thought gamer con was some kind of lan party 09:19:23 these days it can be, which is why i added the "tabletop". 09:20:19 these were board games and role playing games (which weren't computer games either). 09:20:30 oh ok i was not familiar with that term. 09:20:36 i thought it meant a computer. 09:21:01 No, that's a *desk*top, obviously a completely different thing. 09:21:04 yes 09:21:18 you just cannot win when people start stealing your terminology. 09:21:47 so what were you like at board game parties 09:21:59 tired. 09:22:16 i'm thinking beer bong & cocaine 09:22:36 I went to Ropecon (a tabletop-ish gamer con, though it's related things too) once or twice, and also have "fond" memories of the "cuisine". (Also haven't really been able to look at potato salad the same way since.) 09:23:01 these were drug and alcohol free. they were trying to recruit youngsters to the club, after all. 09:23:01 i've been to konklaavi, which i guess is turku's attempt at ropecon 09:23:31 i played this board game where you program a robot 09:23:38 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:23:38 (i sucked) 09:23:44 roborally? 09:23:46 yes 09:24:03 (i think i saw it played but never played myself) 09:24:57 fizzie: XD 09:25:03 i think that was the only thing i played, i usually prefer watching 09:25:55 oerjan: Also I think I left some potato salad on a table with a "free to take (if you don't bring it back)" sign while sleeping somewhere nearby, and when I woke up, *someone had taken it*. 09:26:22 fizzie: worked perfectly then! 09:27:13 They also had a Brockian Ultra-Cricket tournament there, because I tried sleeping in a plastic-tubing-duct-tape-and-foam canoe that someone had made for a weapon. 09:27:20 * oerjan has an eerie premonition 09:27:54 nope, this year's con isn't until a month from now. 09:29:16 Ropecon XX (20th time) this year was in late July. (Didn't go.) 09:31:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:46:51 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:54:24 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 10:03:06 OK, dorftime 10:03:48 yay for dorfs 10:04:05 sad thing i'm way too stupid for military 10:10:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:12:31 dammit Taneb, clear rooms of stone before furnishing them 10:12:45 myname, dfhack fixes that apparently 10:12:53 i haven't tried it myself though 10:13:12 Phantom_Hoover: how that? 10:13:27 dfhack.makearmy()? 10:14:05 no, it does binary patches and stuff now 10:14:09 it's pretty cool 10:14:28 it even makes the temperature system not half your FPS 10:15:17 how do people "get into" df these days 10:15:45 df gets into them 10:16:58 uh-oh, i think i cooked all our plump helmets and most of the booze 10:17:08 -!- Uguubee111116 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: i.e.). 10:18:19 -!- heroux has joined. 10:20:21 :( 10:26:43 meanwhile, a ranger is shooting at a carp out of some sense of dwarven triumphalism 10:27:59 -!- Uguubee111116 has joined. 10:30:08 Phantom_Hoover: it still doesn't work without X, though 10:30:53 myname, i could've sworn there was a windows version 10:31:12 Phantom_Hoover: i don't do windows 10:31:21 thing is, i'm playing df via ssh 10:31:52 X goes over SSH just fine. (For some values of "just fine" that aren't very large for slow links.) 10:32:09 (And there's things for that scenario too.) 10:32:19 dfhack works by adding hooks to libsdl though 10:32:34 exactly that is my problem 10:32:51 i may have to search for a good way of using it 10:33:06 tbh, i use the liquids hack a lot 10:34:07 boo etc. 10:34:30 i just don't like pumping magma up all the way :( 10:34:41 elves! 10:34:48 curses, i don't have a military yet 10:34:50 I'm not sure I understand why adding hooks to libsdl would be incompatible with networksing the SDL output. 10:35:06 Phantom_Hoover: i have a werebeast with no military :/ 10:35:38 fizzie: afaik dfhack forks itself into df to get the pid 10:36:29 myname: I'm still not seeing how that's relevant. 10:37:05 (Of course I don't know anything about dfhack, or df in general.) 10:37:05 one may hack dfhack to make it work other ways, but afaik it doesn't work with networking right now 10:39:35 I guess I just don't get it. If you have SDL library using an X backend, it ought to use the X server reached through $DISPLAY even if there's patches to the library, or it's started in some fancy way. 10:39:51 the farms aren't producing any food for whatever reason 10:44:40 also i bought a chimpanzee 10:44:47 i hope i can train it for war 10:48:30 Well, I just started dfhack on my workstation at work some 6 kilometres away, and I don't understand anything of what's happining, but I did get a "DFHack is ready" in the console, and a SDL window with "Slaves to Armok: God of Blood" Chapter II title in it. 10:49:07 So as far as I can tell, it seems to be working just fine forwarded over a SSH connection. (Two, in fact, since the workstation in question isn't directly reachable from the outside; had to go through a shell server first.) 10:50:05 (It's typically forwarded-X laggy, and there's no sound because of "Dynamically loading the OpenAL library failed, disabling sound" and anyway networked sound is a bigger headache always, but other than that.) 10:50:31 sound in df consists of one music track playing on a loop 10:51:08 "Forwarded-X laggy" meaning about one second between keypress and action in the title screen. 10:51:41 But there are things one can do to make forwarded X significantly faster that shouldn't make it any less likely to work. 10:51:43 sound doesn't matter 10:52:09 Phantom_Hoover: well, there is soundsense 10:52:17 never used it, though 10:54:41 (Even plain X can be borderline usable over a LAN connection, this was a VDSL2 link and through ten hops to the shell server, and four more to the workstation (different department).) 10:55:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:57:29 NX makes things faster though involves more setup, and there's the Xvnc approach (virtual-framebuffer X on the same box as the process + compressed VNC for the screen), and I seem to recall hearing about something NX-y except newer and better. 10:58:29 i'd still prefer it just sitting in the terminal, but i guess it can't be helped 11:02:28 With the usual "faster SSH" flags ("-C -c blowfish-cbc,arcfour" -- compression and faster encryption methods, if you dare) the input lag in the title screen drops to something like 0.2 seconds, maybe. (Hard to judge.) I've used programs with interfaces this slow locally. 11:03:31 (Possibly the compression made more of a difference, I don't believe it's a CPU-bound thing at these link speeds.) 11:06:00 CPU-bound and dwarf fortress are phrases which fit together nicely 11:06:22 Phantom_Hoover: :D 11:06:36 that is one reason i don't want to play it on my netbook 11:07:04 amazingly in my last fort there wasn't any slowdown, at all 11:07:19 i'm not sure whether it's having a better laptop or dfhack or both, though 11:07:43 i played a nanofortress once 11:07:55 it was like "wow, this stuff actually can be fast" 11:09:47 if it were just for liquids, i might transfer the savegame and make that stuff locally 11:09:57 that doesn't help withmilitary, though 11:11:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:11:57 yeah, military's just broken 11:12:08 Oh, right Xpra was the other fancy thing for slow-link X I was thinking of. 11:13:11 well, the brokenness is not my personal main issue 11:13:20 it's just too complicated for me 11:13:34 everything is fine but military 11:15:01 there's that too 11:16:14 well, that and textile industry tbh 11:16:45 i had a fortress once that got completely destroyed by the clothing-for-happiness update 11:16:53 and i'm kinda traumatized since then 11:22:16 protip re textiles: goblins have clothes too 11:22:34 yeah, but not very good ones 11:23:44 the clothes dorfs migrate with aren't good either 11:24:32 i want my dorfs like i want my women: happy and drunk 11:37:22 OK we now have an actual military 11:37:28 wait taneb left 11:50:17 i'm no expert on english pronunciation but i feel like it should be "dorvs" 11:51:41 i like how the two things you can make a backpack with are leather and adamantine 11:58:52 :D 12:46:31 -!- muskrat has joined. 14:08:27 myname, do you want in 14:08:40 i doubt elliott'll be able to play 14:09:16 want what? 14:09:24 "In." 14:09:27 the fortress 14:09:35 it's a succession game with two people currently 14:09:35 The first hit is always free? 14:09:47 i doubt i will play it somewhere as good as you 14:10:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:10:28 good, it'll be just like having elliott back 14:10:50 lol 14:24:25 wheee, an ambush 14:29:11 myname, if you want the save then i'll kill the ambush before handing it over, but i recommend setting up a hospital asap 14:31:22 oh it just figures, the one dorf who dies has to be the expedition leader/manager/bookkeeper 14:32:01 always 14:32:27 one time i had an ambush and my leader was like "okay, i gotta go and watch what's happening there" 14:36:11 what the fuck why is nobody going outside 14:36:21 i turned off the burrow and all 14:36:51 oh the drawbridge is up 14:37:08 that might it be 14:37:57 why am i producing no drink! why are hungry dorfs going straight for the plump helmets rather than the prepared meals!!! 14:40:00 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:44:14 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:46:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:56:47 myname, http://www.filedropper.com/region3 if you're man enough 14:57:41 *swoon* such a manly file 15:02:35 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:02:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:05:56 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 15:07:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:07:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:09:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:10:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:11:10 -!- muskrat has joined. 15:17:43 A rule I was thinking to use in Pokemon battle game is PP factor, which is 5 by default but you might play with a lower PP factor in case 5 is too easy. 15:24:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:26:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:32:07 zzo38: well I guess that depends on the game mechanics 15:32:25 I recall in the video games 5 was the lowest, and most attacks had 15 or 20 15:32:37 @massages-loud 15:32:37 kmc said 1d 16h 40m 18s ago: the C-T thesis is about machines which can actually be built; it's easy enough to make mathematical models stronger than a Turing Machine 15:33:53 the C-T boundary, on the other hand. 15:35:04 ok so it's actually K not C 15:35:14 and they've just renamed T to Pg. 15:36:27 Apparently you can blame the Germans for the K, unsurprisingly. 15:36:47 i really knew that. it's "Kritt" in norwegian. 15:37:02 (which means "chalk") 15:37:14 Koen_: They are a multiple of five (or sometimes just one); this "PP factor" is the multipler to use in place of five (if set to zero, all attacks with have 1 PP) 15:37:45 ohhhhh okay 15:38:13 oerjan: Liitu(kausi) in Finnish, for some reason. 15:40:47 Though limestone in general is "kalkki(kivi)", which I would assume comes from the same place as chalk. 15:40:55 presumably a lot of chalk was made at the time. 15:42:28 Yes, I was just wondering about the etymology of "liitu". 15:43:39 The two generic Finnish dictionaries I have web-access to don't include etymology entries. 15:47:05 I suppose "liitu" and "kritt" could also share roots, actually. (Also it's "kriit" in Estonian.) 15:48:11 i can understand dropping a k, but why would the r turn into l, given that finnish has proper r. 15:48:22 Perhaps someone misheard. 15:48:29 maybe it's been borrowed via a language that doesn't have r 15:48:51 "From Swedish krita" says the Wiktionary of fi:liitu. 15:49:27 huh 15:50:00 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:50:15 maybe finnish didn't have r until it started heavy borrowing? 15:50:42 -!- Yogi_Bear has joined. 15:51:01 Invitation http://www.tatuuu.com.br 15:51:03 -!- Yogi_Bear has quit (Client Quit). 15:51:05 I've certainly not heard of that being the case. 15:54:30 Proto-Uralic, according to Wikipedia, does have a trill /r/. 15:56:57 but has that been preserved as /r/ in finnish 15:58:01 At least in the single 'r'-containing example word the "Vocabulary" section of the Proto-Uralic article has. 16:00:53 what about word-initially 16:00:59 The other "kr"-starting Swedish examples that have a similar-sounding Finnish word I can think of generally have a 'r' left. Like krabba <=> rapu. 16:01:23 maybe the etymology is just mistaken. 16:01:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:02:25 Or both k and r, like kris-kriisi. 16:03:19 presumably more is preserved the newer the loan 16:07:13 There's a Finnish etymological database but I don't have access to it. There's also a freely available database of cross-references, which lists five book-and-page entries discussing "liitu", but of course not the contents. 16:13:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:13:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:35:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:06:30 Is there a C library for cross-platform access of what is the directory where the executable program is stored and files that override ones in that directory? SDL 2 has some, but it isn't available in SDL 1 and uses UTF-8 rather than native filenames, and I want to use native filenames instead. 17:13:50 Also I wanted a cross-platform printing library so that I can just send ESC/P codes and it converts them and sends them to the printer. 17:21:42 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:01:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:11:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 18:46:00 -!- muskrat has joined. 18:46:43 I want to know some cross-platform library to support printing with ESC/P codes so that I can use it with the Z-machine interpreter. 18:49:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:58:55 https://code.google.com/p/awib/ 19:00:09 (NSFW source code) 19:00:55 NSFW source code? 19:01:32 The source code is arranged as ASCII art of a naked woman 19:03:29 Do you like give away chess puzzle? Do you like tsume shogi? 19:05:26 okay 19:05:35 ah yeah gonna get off on this triangle of space characters 19:05:37 thx sgeo 19:06:05 nsfw does not, to be fair, mean 'porn' 19:10:44 For instance, malware could probably be considered NSFW... 19:10:47 in at least one sense 19:13:34 :) 19:17:13 -!- tswett has joined. 19:17:29 Hey, I think Gregor did a great job on that new album. I really liked the face paint. 19:21:38 I have two different ideas of making a text adventure game; do you like any of this? 19:27:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:30:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:31:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:37:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:43 tswett: What album is that? 19:44:16 The one that's coming out on the 29th. 19:44:20 * oerjan assumes some gregorian chant 19:57:15 I should totally make some Racket language that makes Racket more like Tcl 20:06:59 One of the games is there is one starting room with many spell stones (like scrolls, but much more heavy), you have to pick a few and go through everywhere else and use that to your advantage and them come back, get new ones, go around again, until you have completed the game. Do you like this? 20:08:29 i may be playing it, but i won't write it 20:08:38 Of course I write the game, not you 20:08:49 I would also write the other game trilogy 20:10:11 (For the other game that I didn't just describe now, that is why I was asking about DNA that goes the other way, and I study other scientific things) 20:10:17 well, personally i am looking for a game idea to realize 20:10:26 but i have no creativity at all 20:10:45 myname: Using what system, do you expect? Is it DOS, Z-machine, C+SDL, etc? 20:10:56 I can provide some ideas 20:11:42 well, i'd prefer a pretty boring linux shell :p 20:12:24 I do not understand very well what you wanted 20:12:35 Do you mean you are going to write in shell scripts? 20:13:04 in fact, i want to write in rust with termbox or ncurses 20:13:24 So it is a text grid, do you mean? 20:14:21 yeah 20:15:10 I have made various games using that in CGA Collection (some are graphical but most are text grid); will that give you any idea? 20:15:30 (One of my ideas was to make a game based around the limitations of the Famicom, so that I can later put it in Famicom too) 20:15:52 what limitations are you aiming at? 20:16:33 Mainly the PPU limitations, where there are a limit of eight sprites per scanline and areas of 2x2 tiles sharing an attribute (palette). 20:17:58 sounds interesting, but i'm not really a graphics guy 20:18:12 (I have made a puzzle game based on these limitations. In the CGA Collection, it is called "ATTRZONE", and it does use text mode, not graphics mode.) 20:18:50 should i know the cga collection? 20:18:51 You can also make text adventure games (and even text grid games) using Z-machine; I have written the Frolg assembler and the Aimfiz and Fweep interpreters, if you want to use Z-machine. 20:19:10 myname: Maybe; you can look if you want to at least: http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/CGACOLL.ZIP 20:20:04 (The interpreter Fweep can run in a text window/terminal emulator, although it doesn't support grid windows, colors, etc; Aimfiz is SDL and does support grid windows and colors and so on.) 20:20:57 please use the gopher service 20:21:01 u can't be serious? 20:21:45 myname: What are you trying to access? 20:21:47 but firefox dropped gopher-support a while ago :( 20:21:51 your index 20:22:02 I don't have an index; you have to access directly by the filenames. 20:22:32 and what's behind the gopher? 20:24:16 There is menus in gopher, although it is not quite complete. There are gopher clients (I have written two, one in shell scripts and one in VB6; there is also OverbiteFF to support gopher in Firefox). Probably you can just know the filename though you can access the file (even using wget or whatever; there aren't any webpages to navigate before finding the file to download) 20:24:22 -!- yorick has joined. 20:24:58 (You can also write your own gopher client; it is not difficult) 20:25:53 Just to download a file though you don't need it; you can download files over HTTP using wget or curl, or you can download files over gopher by something like "echo filename.zip | nc example.org 70 > filename.zip" or whatever. 20:26:09 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:26:30 why do you even use gopher? 20:28:30 It doesn't use the stupid stuff of HTML and HTTP and that stuff; it also saves energy 20:29:57 But most files are available on HTTP too, so if you have wget or whatever you can easily download these files in that way. (You can also download or view using a web browser) 20:32:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:34:48 I do have other ideas for computer games though 20:35:16 Such as, sokoban with strange geometry 20:36:02 that needs lots of levels, though 20:36:29 sokoban is "I give you the sum of each row and column and you find the numbers in each cell" right? 20:36:58 Or, the Z-Comp theme, which is this: Richardson fire // 2009-10 Leicester City F.C. season // Merciful to gibbering mouthers and the other monsters (pick one, two, or all three combined; that would be difficult) 20:37:01 Koen_: No. 20:37:10 I once played a wooden game kinda like that where there was a skycrapper in every cell and you could see the projection on very row and column 20:37:26 Sokoban is push the blocks on the targets 20:37:38 Koen_: that's part of simon tathams portable puzzle collection 20:37:46 that is, if one row has skycrappers of height 3, 4, 1, 2 and you're looking from the right, you only see that there is a height 2, and behind it a height 4 20:38:05 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ 20:38:14 Koen_: I have played a similar game except that it only tell you how many are visible, not their height 20:38:22 "towers" 20:38:25 okay maybe that was it 20:40:20 myname: Do you like any of these ideas I wrote now? I do have some others ideas too 20:40:58 where there some i missed? 20:41:30 the sokoban may be interesting to play, but it would bore the shit out of me as a developer as i have to know all the levels already 20:42:03 Another idea is some game that you have to prevent all of the magnets from touching each other; I am unsure how to make such a computer game though 20:42:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:42:46 :D 20:49:00 Here are some other computer game ideas (some aren't mine, but most are): http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10081 See if that help you at something 20:50:55 myname: Are these good? 20:51:19 have to read them first :D 20:52:08 where do you get all those ideas 20:52:17 I don't know! 20:52:59 i do like "hoplite" for android 20:53:18 it's a roguelike where moving into an opponent is NOT a method to attack 20:53:29 that alone makes it very interesting 20:54:01 Yes, OK, if you move into opponent what happens, is your path blocked, do you enter the same space, or what? 20:54:48 it's blocked 20:55:11 you attack by either move from next to a monster to another tile next to it (it's hexa tiled) 20:55:38 O, I think I once made up a chess variant like that 20:55:47 or moving in it's direction and sting 20:56:12 or throw your lance (in which case you may not sting until you get it again) 20:56:34 so every permanent way of attacking requires you to be able to move 20:57:10 Yes, that is understandable now 20:57:23 And yes it is a bit similar to some chess variant I once made (although it wasn't hex) 20:58:01 http://www.nongnu.org/tong/ looks a bit like your third idea, even if it's not pinball 20:58:11 hex is great 20:59:04 also, i played some mix of minesweeper and dungeon ascending, very interesting idea 20:59:05 I do know Tong 21:01:59 you know chessrogue? 21:02:16 Yes, I have played that too 21:02:32 myname, did you get that save btw 21:02:38 Phantom_Hoover: no 21:02:41 I have designed a roguelike called KING and someone reviewed it too 21:07:25 zzo38: what do you mean by "delayed by different amounts"? 21:09:22 I don't really know exactly 21:12:26 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 21:15:27 nooodl, do you want the save 21:16:02 i'm torn between "yes" and keeping the game alive 21:16:11 really i think i'll have to go for "no" though :( 21:16:23 maybe i should learn how to play df decently and then i could play in a couple of years!! 21:16:33 (plot twist: irl years) 21:16:44 not really a plot twist 21:16:45 i don't get why people get so caught up on that, elliott was shit and he never let that stop him 21:17:14 you need to have that can-do spirit that leads to the fort collapsing utterly because it ran out of booze for no good reason 21:17:49 i need a working military system 21:18:43 I am also writing a roguelike called "Savant's Maze"; rooms may be generated overlapping and one of the terrain is windows that you can see through but not move through. I implemented data structures, line of sight, level generation, and a few others and then I can add the rest. 21:19:11 the way i left it the only thing the military needed was for steel armour to be made; they'd train and equip themselves on their own 21:19:23 well also they need to heal after that ambush 21:20:26 elliott: so if i get a virtual server thing to run shit on + stop annoying people by disconnecting who should i be renting from 21:21:07 Do you like any other of my computer game ideas too? 21:23:08 i like the idea of guarding something, but it's missing 21:25:24 Bike: I've used prgmr and tilaa so far, and both have been just fine. 21:25:41 aight 21:26:08 maybe one could make a roguelike with some tourist exploring a dungeon on his own 21:26:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:05 or anti-roguelikes 21:27:36 like, you are rodney and have to stop an adventurer 21:27:37 Bike: And esolangs.org is on linode, which is I think reasonably popular, if not quite the most "budget" option (though certainly also not the most expensive) out there. 21:28:13 that warning about not getting phished is scary 21:28:45 They had some nasty security issues a while back, but that could be a function of popularity too. 21:29:03 i mean, i don't know what to do to avoid getting haxed. 21:29:54 Does anyone use a personal wiki or something similar? I need something to help me organise some stuff... 21:29:54 "Don't install Wordpress/Drupal/other-big-web-thing" seems to be a good step. 21:30:08 impomatic: i used to use tiddlywiki 21:30:11 fizzie: noted 21:30:25 Hike: thanks, searching now. 21:30:49 I used to use DokuWiki. 21:31:12 It's perhaps less "personal". 21:31:27 In that people use it "for reals". 21:31:39 tiddlywiki is just one page with a shitload of javascript, nice and easy 21:32:13 As for organizing stuff, there's of course good old venerable org-mode. 21:33:00 Some people[citation needed][who?][dubious - discuss] are very... ardent about org-mode. 21:33:53 isn't it [weasel words] more than [citation needed] 21:34:07 Possibly. 21:34:52 And perhaps not very dubious, but I like how the "dubious-discuss" sounds. 21:35:17 yeah it's good 21:38:03 Grrrr... wikipedia. "It is proposed that this article be deleted because of the following concern: Notability" 21:41:51 which article 21:42:32 this one 21:43:17 wikipedia even deleted the subtitles for the modem dial-in sound :( 21:43:49 what, the image? 21:45:05 huh? 21:45:46 http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/dial-up-handshake-infographic.png this thing 21:46:02 no 21:46:11 there is a dial-up modem sound 21:46:18 and it got subtitles 21:46:28 i 21:46:29 like "bow beep beep beep" and stuff 22:25:42 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:45 -!- ^v has joined. 22:36:17 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:39:16 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:50:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:22:54 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:26:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:30:46 -!- HegoDamask has joined. 23:30:57 hi all! 23:31:08 hi 23:32:24 i am trying to solve a riddle where esoteric programming is involved, anybody willing to help me out with some really basic stuff? 23:32:45 sure 23:33:22 basically i have shakespeare prorgamming code, and it should give me some "hello world"-like program outputting 2 numbers. 23:33:37 but i dont know how to compile this kinda stuff 23:34:01 does the wiki page have any resources 23:34:29 well i found the compiler software for linux, unfortunately i dont run on linux and have next to zero knowledge on using it 23:34:56 also my english isnt exactly the best 23:34:59 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:35:43 is there compiler softare for windows? 23:35:48 software 23:51:58 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:57:07 what language is the code in? 23:59:15 @google esolang shakespeare 23:59:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Shakespeare 23:59:16 Title: Shakespeare - Esolang