2013-09-01: 00:02:41 "Buckle up, boys. This jump leads to space, and that's really high." 00:09:23 So there's no treaty, is there? 00:09:32 Oh 00:09:34 Now there is 00:09:47 there are many treaties, Roujo 00:10:41 Yeah, I was thinking of the Hexham one 00:10:44 btw i may have confused Taneb with the topic. Which ones? of you {is,are} in Lachine again? 00:10:49 I am 00:11:22 Well, I live there. I'm at my parents' now =P 00:15:30 are hexham, lachine and helsinki in a line 00:17:00 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:19:49 in some topology, maybe 00:23:59 itym "metric" 00:24:21 is a metric sufficient for lines 00:25:43 oerjan: what sounds better: "topology" or "metric" 00:25:45 well, geodesics 00:25:45 i rest my case. 00:26:36 Bike: the problem is that the usual topology on a euclidean space doesn't contain enough information to define the usual lines. 00:27:09 while metric is enough to define lines as geodesics. 00:27:39 sounds like a boring problem 00:29:52 well, to put it differently, you can find a diffeomorphism from a sphere to itself that (by consequence of the definition) preserves the topology and maps any finite set of points you want to a great circle. 00:30:16 i'm seeing a lot of words here that aren't "topology" 00:32:09 ...whatever, you're just joking anyway. 00:32:24 yes 00:33:37 but i'll mention the old chestnut: a topologist is someone who cannot see the difference between his donut and his coffee cup. 00:56:17 oerjan: I haven't seen you say hth for a while... Is there a treaty for that too? 00:56:46 no, there's an irssi script 00:56:54 What 00:57:03 elliott wrote it 00:57:13 It prevents you from saying it? =P 00:57:27 oerjan is one of those weird people that needs computers to stop him from doing simple things, sometimes. 00:57:29 maybe it puts it at the end of all his lines 00:57:30 it censors hth from the end of lines. 00:57:36 Nice =P 00:59:16 When you said there was a script, I assumed it was on his end 00:59:26 À la "you get a kick if you say it" 01:01:05 ...don't give him ideas. 01:01:36 @tell elliott I have an idea for you, but oerjan doesn't want to tell you. Just saying. 01:01:37 Consider it noted. 01:01:43 Well 01:01:45 NOOOO 01:01:47 doesn't want me* 01:02:29 @tell elliott Actually, he just doesn't want me to tell you. Although my guess is that he doesn't want to tell you either. 01:02:29 Consider it noted. 01:02:36 There we go 01:02:40 @tell lambdabot Thanks 01:02:40 Nice try ;) 01:02:41 ^^ 01:04:33 oerjan: He'll know now, hth 01:05:34 's ok i'll just threaten with turning off the script. 01:06:14 or maybe he'll kick everyone _else_ instead, because hey, i've got a script 01:06:14 ^^ 01:06:21 Yeah, that would be nice 01:06:22 Anyway 01:06:26 TIME TO GO HOME 01:08:32 WOULD YOU LIKE A KICK OUT THE DOOR 01:31:01 hi oerjan 01:31:11 evening 01:31:19 soon it will be evening 01:31:48 okay 01:35:08 hmm 01:35:10 hi kmc 01:42:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]). 01:42:12 The temple where my D&D character worships is probably the strangest one. (We didn't find it yet.) 01:46:35 hi shachaf 01:46:37 how's your day? 01:52:54 day seems reasonable 01:53:18 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:53:42 i ran into Blaketh 01:54:09 thaketh 01:54:25 kmc: it looks like Gracenotes and i will be in sf tomorrow?? 01:54:25 really 01:54:31 did you plan to run into him? 01:54:33 shachaf: oh, cool 01:54:35 no 01:54:43 maybe he planned to run into me but i doubt it 01:55:09 heh 01:55:15 i would not be entirely surprised 01:55:18 where were you? 01:56:11 mountain view 01:56:29 i will feed your coworker's cats soon 01:56:34 as it turns out 01:57:48 which coworker? 01:58:12 tjc 01:58:21 do you have plans tomorrow of some kind 01:58:33 maybe i could try to bring the previously-mentioned finnish throwing game 01:58:37 though it's fallen apart a bit 01:59:01 don't have plans, let's meet up and play this game 01:59:46 i'm not entirely sure whether i'll be able to bring it as it is but i can try 01:59:51 ok 02:00:26 Gracenotes: ☝ 02:01:05 -!- carado has joined. 02:02:02 * shachaf will vanish for a bit in a bit. 02:02:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:30:12 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:49:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:50:42 -!- noooodl has joined. 02:55:18 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:55:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Noyt). 02:57:09 `slist 02:57:11 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:01:28 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 03:01:42 you've slisted multiple times in one day 03:01:45 and yet no olists 03:01:49 why the preferential treatment? 03:36:31 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:41:39 https://github.com/thomastechsoft3d/yesno/blob/master/Main.hs 03:58:47 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:05:53 Based on the information, how accurate do you think my analysis about the chances of beating the demon are? 04:57:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:10:52 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:11:27 `slist boon 05:11:28 slist boon: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:34:57 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:43:54 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:56:05 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:06:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:10:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:12:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:13:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:19:40 `slist strike 07:19:44 slist strike: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 07:19:58 Hi 07:19:59 the day of the bazillion slists 07:20:02 AND NO OLISTS 07:20:43 a dark day for all of humankind 07:20:46 I suppose that's just the way it is today. What do you want me to do, sue you until you fix it? 07:21:04 Whom, me? 07:21:08 Bike: Wrong. Not all of humankind lives in the same timezone. 07:21:20 a dark day for some of humankind 07:21:25 OK 07:21:26 and a dark night for the rest 07:21:39 (but night is usually dark so why mention it?) 07:21:54 Not all the rest are night 07:23:27 You are wrong! 07:24:21 Me? 07:24:22 There are two things you have to stop being: [1] humanist [2] never knowing what time it is during your entire lifetime 07:25:05 You also have to stop being the third thing. 07:26:13 `addquote a dark day for all of humankind Bike: Wrong. Not all of humankind lives in the same timezone. a dark day for some of humankind OK 07:26:17 1096) a dark day for all of humankind Bike: Wrong. Not all of humankind lives in the same timezone. a dark day for some of humankind OK 07:28:26 Hmm 07:28:38 I think I prefer the second Attack on Titan theme tune to the first 07:28:39 zzo38: What's the third thing? 07:30:10 I don't know. Maybe I will know in the future, but maybe not. 07:31:13 Taneb: Do you prefer the third to the second? 07:31:27 zzo38, there is not yet a third 07:32:03 Then make one. 07:33:07 Alas, I cannot 08:09:27 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:24:02 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:34:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:47:28 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:54:03 Taneb: please set the addressing-people character to : instead of , thx 08:54:08 shachaf, no 08:54:24 Taneb: imo yes 08:54:29 The colons make me feel uncomfortable 09:05:43 -!- jconn has joined. 09:22:57 Taneb: using comma is the third thing 10:00:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:31:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:42:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:10:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:12:27 -!- yorick has joined. 11:16:13 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 11:18:59 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:19:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:25:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 11:30:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:36:01 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:03:52 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:17:21 -!- aloril has joined. 12:47:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:04:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:17:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:35:07 -!- carado has joined. 13:35:31 `relcome carado 13:35:34 ​carado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:35:46 hi 13:35:50 Heya ^^ 13:35:54 thanks for the welcome 13:36:02 You're, well, welcome 13:36:23 I’m amazed to see that this channel seems very active 13:36:25 warning: entering infinite loop 13:36:32 Well 13:36:32 Well 13:36:40 come 13:36:46 >_> 13:36:59 I'ts been quiet since 03 this morning 13:37:00 you're welcome Roujo 13:37:06 Thanks =P 13:40:48 carado: so what do we owe the pleasure to? 13:42:00 uh, I’ve liked esoteric languages for a while now, I made a probably-already-made lambda-calculus esoteric language interpreter 13:42:30 http://paste.awesom.eu/kni 13:43:45 Nice, nice 13:43:50 So you really were new ^^ 13:44:04 I tend to `relcome people without being sure if they're new or not 13:44:09 well, I’ve been idling for a while now 13:44:14 Oh 13:44:16 >_> 13:44:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:35 I must have been `relcome’d two or three times now :) 13:45:01 but I’ve never really spoken, only read the channel from time to time. 13:45:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:46:42 (mainly because I’m no that comfortable with english, being french) 13:47:35 that's okay, some very nice people are french 14:11:17 -!- conehead has joined. 14:18:18 -!- daakl has joined. 14:18:31 Can you create a program which can build, print and calculate integer equations? It must support: 1. Addition 2. Multiplication 3. Division 4. Subtraction 5. Negation 6. Ternary 14:18:50 here's a partial example of my Ocaml solution which builds this integer equation. let ans = Unary( Negative, Multi( Value 10, Ternary(Value 10, Greater, Value 12, Value 34, Value 45)));; 14:19:08 The program will then calculate and display the integer equation. -450 = -(10 * (10 > 12 ? 34 : 45)) 14:23:38 daakl: are you mafingre? 14:24:20 Does it matter? 14:24:29 yes, because mafingre is banned, so you would be ban evading 14:24:48 you have a very similar IP (and the same ISP) as lekrel yesterday, who ignored this question 14:24:58 but I suppose your response is basically confirmation in itself, unless you actually deny it? 14:25:11 elliott: What is a similar IP supposed to mean? 14:25:21 And same ISP? 14:25:26 what was mafingres ISP? 14:25:44 it means that, combined with very similar behaviour (especially dodging questions about who you are), I'm pretty confident you are the same person 14:26:09 mafingre's ISP was not identical to yours; however, it was in the same country, and you may be using some form of mobile internet from the looks of the whois result 14:26:10 elliott: Similar to what? 14:26:29 elliott: Ok, I am in the same country with 22 million other people 14:26:33 but I'm wondering why you wouldn't just say "no". do you deny that you are mafingre? yes or no 14:26:51 elliott: I was lekrel from yesterday 14:26:59 But I do not know who mafingre is 14:27:11 ok, but do you deny that you are the same person as them? 14:27:26 And I ask "Does it matter" because you asked exactly the same question yesterday 14:27:31 As whom? 14:28:11 well, I'd generally expect someone who doesn't know who mafingre is, and isn't them, to have an easier time of sending a message like "no, I am not the same person that used the nick 'mafingre' in the past" to the channel 14:28:52 I have never even heard of a mafingre 14:29:06 First time in this channel was yesterday 14:29:29 ok. I don't really believe you, but ok. 14:30:12 so back to your question 14:30:17 Whatever floats your boat, now back on topic 14:30:51 what you said wasn't actually on-topic here, to be pedantic, but ok. 14:30:53 the hardest part in making a calculator is usually parsing the expression 14:31:09 I did my version in oCaml 14:31:12 and your program doesn't have to do that, since the expression is already parsed 14:32:29 http://pastebin.com/EaXkL3nt 14:32:49 daaki: try the opposite: a program that reads an expression like -(10 * (10 > 12 ? 34 : 45)), and computes the result 14:34:04 also your ternary actually expects five operands so it should be called pentary:p 14:34:34 for instance you can't use it to write stuff like (false ? 3 : 4) 14:34:53 or (0 ? 3 : 4) if you're using integers as booleans as it does in C 14:36:01 in which case <, >, <=, >=, = and != would be arithmetic operators which always yield 0 (for false) or 1 (for true) 14:47:29 i'm bored enough for this apparently http://codepad.org/KYMwwi5y 14:49:07 that's pretty board nooodl 14:49:11 bored 14:49:25 oops i forgot to rename it Pentary 14:49:31 you should go to the movies! 14:54:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:56:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:34:03 -!- boily has joined. 15:37:43 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 15:39:31 hi boily bye boily 15:40:47 truth be told I'm bored as well 15:40:49 http://sprunge.us/REDX?ocaml 15:47:38 truth be told, you're lying 15:48:18 how so? 15:57:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:01:58 Most people are 16:03:24 hi zzo38 16:10:28 Hello 16:10:36 What question now? 16:10:51 thats a metaquestion 16:11:07 so 16:11:22 why dont you play arkeon zzo38? 16:12:00 Because I don't know what that is. 16:13:50 but i've already told you about it before 16:14:13 Well, it is mainly the reason, anyways. Other reason is because I forgot. 16:14:36 that's okay. i've reminded you now. 16:16:59 nooodl: http://codepad.org/GZdBEwxq 16:17:14 No, I still don't remember. 16:19:56 zzo38: have you heard about arkeon? 16:20:03 quintopia: From you. 16:20:22 zzo38: oh okay. just making sure you don't forget. 16:21:31 That doesn't make me remember if I am unaware what that means! 16:28:42 zzo38: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.hyperfiction.arkeon&hl=en&referrer=utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_term%3Darkeon 16:29:32 Maybe that is why. I don't have Google Apps in my computer. 16:29:34 Arkeon is a fast-paced strategy game influenced by traditionnal asbtract games like Chess or Go. 16:29:37 now that sounds cool 16:29:48 Yes, I suppose it does. 16:33:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkeon 16:33:30 OK I will look in Wikipedia later perhaps, not right now 16:33:47 Right now I am playing a Pokemon card game 16:40:24 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:49:31 You should not necessarily knock out your opponent's cards. I sometimes win by not knocking out opponent's cards when I have a choice. 16:50:46 is that like in morris where winning is usually easier if you *don't* capture all the opponent's pawns? 16:51:33 No, not really. 16:52:47 You can win in one of three ways: * Knock out six opponent's pokemons * Leave your opponent with no cards in play * Leave your opponent with no cards in their draw pile 16:55:17 Sometimes opponent's cards can help you, such as powers that affect both sides, or a card that cannot attack or retreat, if it is activated they cannot do much. Also, if they already have five bench pokemons then they cannot play another one. This can be used to stall, or to gain position until you do have a better advantage to knock out opponent's cards. 16:57:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 16:59:10 If your opponent knocks out five of your cards and you knock out none of theirs, they will still lose if they run out of cards in their draw pile before they can knock out one more of your cards. (I ave won in this way before.) 17:01:05 I literally work in the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company 17:01:09 That feels weird somehow. 17:04:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:52 Sgeo_: Are you sure? 17:05:22 Sure that I work in the headquarters of a Fortune 500 company, or sure that it feels weird? I'm sure of the former, at least. 17:05:32 It probably shouldn't feel weird. 17:07:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:10:05 -!- daakl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:18:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:30:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:44:48 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 18:46:03 -!- FreeFull has quit. 18:54:24 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 19:01:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:08:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:04 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:24:38 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 19:26:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:30:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:33:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:38:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:38:30 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:10:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:13:44 -!- augur has joined. 20:23:42 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 20:30:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:33:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:24:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 21:24:54 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:31:50 Quick I need a 2009 internet joke 21:32:16 i have 2009 problems but the internet ain't one. right now, anyway. 21:33:36 chuck norris invented every internet joke. 21:58:06 -!- mzdravkov has joined. 21:58:18 -!- mzdravkov has left. 22:06:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BANCStar_programming_language 22:06:54 from charles stross (@cstross) 22:06:56 0_0 22:06:57 my god man 22:08:05 bancstar has been discussed here before 22:09:53 oerjan: i only just saw it in his tweetstream 22:10:03 baffling that something like that exists for serious 22:11:51 See if anyone can figure out the example with only the information given. 22:13:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:14:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:17:05 Is there a name for this logic gate: 01,10,11=0;00=1 22:17:17 I implemented that in AW years ago calling it NAND, but I think I was wrong 22:18:53 it might be NOR 22:20:34 yeah it's NOR 22:20:56 Sgeo: "a NAND b" means "not (a and b)", so that's "either a is false or b is false" 22:21:44 yours is "they're both false" and that's "not (a or b)" which is a NOR b; or you could remember it as "neither a NOR b" 22:21:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:23:11 who needs names, just use the truth signature! 22:23:24 00 = 1, 01 = 0, 10 = 0, 11 = 0 22:23:28 therefore the signature is 1000! 22:23:41 actually itd probably be better to make the signature 0001 22:25:07 augur, if you read NOR backwards, you're not going to think "Who the hell is RON" 22:25:08 NOR still proves that any logic gate can be built, right? 22:25:12 Sgeo, yes 22:25:18 NOR and NAND are both universal 22:25:35 Taneb: im pretty sure i will 22:25:41 we ARE in #esoteric, after all! 22:25:43 they're also dual to each other, so if one is the other has to be 22:25:50 its in the job description to be obnoxiously obtuse! 22:25:53 augur, here's a hint, RON stands for Re-Open Nominations 22:26:17 oerjan: thats interesting about duality 22:28:04 It doesn't prove fsm though, right? Still need a memory mechanism?? 22:28:33 what does that even mean 22:29:25 Sgeo: if I understand your question right, it's kind of like if you were asking "does addition prove mathematics are a finite-state machine?" 22:30:35 I'm thinking about Active Worlds, and wondering what I need to do to prove that a finite-state machine can be built. 22:31:19 building one would be the most explicit way to prove it 22:36:21 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:38:47 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:44:01 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9 geez this is going fast 22:49:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:51:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:55:28 Sgeo: i'm a bit scared to learn what you could think NOR universality has to do with finite state machines. 22:59:19 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:04:58 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 23:06:54 Can you make memory out of logic gates? 23:07:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_random-access_memory ? 23:07:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_(electronics) I guess 23:08:20 depends on how you're thinking of them. often when dealing with "logic gates" you're working timelessly 23:08:48 but yeah, sr latch is easy. 23:11:11 -!- takuin has joined. 23:11:36 Señor Latch 23:12:10 i thought "social revolutionary" because i'm the wurst. 23:12:49 currywurst?? 23:13:09 mmm sausage 23:14:01 Sgeo: nor being universal means that you can compute any truth table (i.e. function {0,1}^n-> {0,1} for any n) with some network of NOR gates, just to be clear. says nothing about timing 23:14:55 n >= 1, i guess 23:23:54 -!- takuin has left ("Leaving"). 23:31:29 `slist 23:31:31 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:32:54 https://twitter.com/museumofcomm/status/374290121610108929/photo/1 23:41:57 -!- b4dh3r0 has joined. 23:46:32 the eternal `slist september 23:52:26 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 2013-09-02: 00:04:43 -!- Koen__ has joined. 00:04:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:15 This is one kind of card I made up for Pokemon card game: Put any number of cards from your hand and/or trash with your side cards (you are not allowed to exceed six side cards). 00:05:24 Do you like this? 00:19:06 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:23:04 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:23:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:40:16 One of my Pokemon card puzzles was made up by FireFly (the rest are made up by me). I would like if someone else can make too. 00:43:27 Different TCG can be compared; such as that, Pokemon card is a more positional-oriented game than Magic: the Gathering, it seems. Magic: the Gathering is other (I don't know what words to use). If you have played these games, tell me of your opinion of it? 00:51:05 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 01:17:55 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 01:42:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:00 shachaf and I played mölkky in the park 01:50:04 it was fun 01:50:07 we are not very good at it 01:50:27 sometimes dogs would come by and steal the pieces and change the state of play 01:51:14 i dont know that game 02:00:23 -!- conehead has joined. 02:14:22 positional 02:14:23 ? 02:15:05 Someone said Magic: the Gathering is a more action-sequence-oriented game. 02:16:52 Sgeo: It is more positional because the play depends on the position of active/bench cards, attached energy cards, sleep/confuse/paralyze poison state, number of side cards remaining, number of cards in draw pile, sacrifices, defense, etc 02:19:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:19:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:20:15 Magic: the Gathering involves an entirely different set of tactics. 02:21:39 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:21:50 -!- augur has joined. 02:31:58 -!- carado has joined. 02:33:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:48:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:57:30 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 03:03:51 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 03:29:36 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 03:39:29 -!- jconn has joined. 03:42:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:46:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 03:47:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:48:09 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 03:49:06 -!- b4dh3r0 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:57:01 There's a property that Active Worlds and Cloud Party share that Second Life lacks, and I'm not sure what to call it. I almost want to say statelessness, but that's not quite accurate 03:57:48 In both AW and CP, you can write scripts. AW scripts are client-side, CP scripts are server-side. But they both have the property that, whatever such a script does, it isn't permanent, it can always be reverted instantly to what was actually built in the world 03:58:06 -!- itwasntme has joined. 03:58:07 In Second Life, scripts can move objects permanently, and they don't have an 'origin' location 04:01:20 -!- itwasntme has left. 04:11:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:30:13 Do you know the different methods of calculating the probability of hitting yourself with the "DIGGER" card (in the Pokemon card game)? I used one method and someone else used a different method, although both work. Such thing may apply to other things relating to probability, too? (DIGGER: Starting with you, both players take turns tossing a coin, until tails. Does 1 point of damage to the active pokemon card of whoever got tails.) 04:30:33 Enumerating all the different methods seems like folly 04:32:38 I mean I just want to see what methods different people are using. What method did you use? 04:35:28 (My own method was to solve P=1/2+(1-P)/2, although someone else used the infinite series instead.) 04:36:06 Did you use one of these, or something else? 04:39:52 if P is the probability of hitting your own pokemon 04:40:15 then P = 1/2 + 1/4 P 04:40:34 since you have three outcomes for the first two flips: you hit your pokemon (1/2), you hit the other pokemon (1/4), you try again 04:45:48 OK 04:46:24 I didn't think of that way, but I can understand it now 04:53:37 I (partially) made up a glossary of Pokemon card puzzle. 04:59:54 `slist 04:59:56 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:00:45 There are a few tactics/strategies/situations that I don't know what they would be called, though. 05:01:09 the eternal `slist of the spotless mind 05:03:43 I used some of the terms from chess, although there are some without corresponding something in the other game. 05:03:53 olist yesterday and olist tomorrow. never olist today. 05:09:54 Please see if I missed anything important or made any other mistakes. 05:11:01 zzo38: my approach is similar to the approach used to determine the running time of infinitely recursive algorithms 05:11:09 err 05:11:14 s/infinitely/arbitrarily/ 05:11:55 coppro: O, that is what it is used for? What is my approach called? 05:13:18 zzo38: I'm not quite sure; I think they work out to roughly the same thing 05:14:56 Well, you do get the same answer, and they are both the algebraic solutions. 05:17:49 huh, the chinese south-pointing carriage wasn't magnetic 05:25:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:47:05 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:49:02 I made up a designation "communist hand" for certain poker hands. As far as I know, these are all possible communist hands: * A royal flush. * An ace-high straight without three cards of the same suit. * Four of a kind and an ace. * Four aces and a king. 05:51:06 Can you see the pattern, and do you know if I made a mistake? 05:54:22 those two questions should never be asked together 05:54:33 coppro: You are probably correct. 05:54:38 I can understand why. 06:00:23 I have thought of it and I think I have not made a mistake. There is a real pattern having to do with Texas Hold'em. Can you see it? (Maybe 'communist hand' isn't the best name; if you have a better name you can tell me) 06:09:02 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12148.html 06:23:18 Someone else figured it out! 06:28:24 is it a hand such that if the table hand is this, everyone will split the pot evenly? 06:28:41 because it's necessarily better than any hand you could make using private cards 06:28:45 kmc: Yes. 06:28:50 That is correct. 06:29:42 cool 06:29:46 it's a pretty good name I think 06:30:08 Yes, I think so too (although I am not 100% sure) 06:30:31 i wanna see what a mutualist hand is 06:30:51 Bike: I don't know; make up something if you have an idea. 06:39:56 If you know any poker players, ask them if they can figure out the definition of "communist hand" from the enumeration of all of them like I have given. 06:41:23 It isn't so difficult, but that doesn't mean you can figure out right away; some people still make some mistakes when trying to figure it out. 06:45:41 I got it when you mentioned it was for hold 'em specifically 06:46:03 Yes, I suppose that is the hint. 06:46:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:59:59 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:22:58 Is it difficult if that is not mentioned? 07:42:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:45:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:13:48 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:18:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:46:03 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 09:13:07 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 09:14:37 I am really happy right now 09:28:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 09:31:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:32:19 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:13:46 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:50:57 -!- yorick has joined. 11:07:12 -!- Tom____ has joined. 11:07:37 -!- Tom____ has left. 11:23:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:37:38 hi Taneb 12:13:56 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:16:55 -!- carado has joined. 12:32:29 Hi, quintopia 12:41:08 -!- zt has joined. 12:49:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:51:30 Should've made a video response to that office-window timelapse; there's been lots of groups of students wandering around, I think they're having some sort of orientation activities for new people there. 13:03:53 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:10:06 "In this episode, they fill up their motorbike with gas!" 13:18:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:29:56 Well, there was also both sunshine and rain. 13:31:50 -!- zt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:55:21 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:56:43 -!- hogeyui has joined. 13:58:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:00:05 -!- carado_ has joined. 14:00:44 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:13:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:13:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:14:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:14:27 -!- glogbot has joined. 14:14:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:14:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:22:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:35:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:41:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:52:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:01:51 -!- conehead has joined. 15:13:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:25:51 -!- b4dh3r0 has joined. 16:16:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:22:59 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:42:37 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:02:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:29:40 -!- b4dh3r0 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:33:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:45:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:56:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:17:29 -!- zt has joined. 18:20:24 Is it possible that turing-complete languages need at least 5 rules? (One of the functional complete set [NAND,NOR], which are 4 rules each) plus a halting rule? 18:21:00 what's a rule 18:21:29 A rule 'converting' a number of inputs to an output or state 18:21:50 that's very vague. anyway, sk calculus has two transition rules, none of which are "a halting rule". 18:23:29 I will read that first, thank you 18:43:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:45:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:58:11 -!- carado has joined. 19:06:43 -!- b4dh3r0 has joined. 19:19:03 zt, you seem to be very caught up on bit operations; turing complete languages are much broader than that 19:19:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:24:05 Phantom_Hoover: That is true :/ As I am not yet in a university I try to use things I can easily understand, it is just a great thing to think about 19:25:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:28:15 fungot: I am bored 19:28:16 olsner: cool hair.... w.t.f lol...... zac efrons gay located on my b-day. and even if the media bombed our minds with anti-american rhetoric and make a solid max payne 19:45:56 :D 19:46:30 fungot: how much better can you do? 19:47:15 fungot: broken!? 19:47:23 fungot fungot fungot 19:49:09 shachaf: should I make my own mölkky-game 19:49:22 "Prior to Volume 17, 1975 this journal was published as Kybernetik." i feel this change was a mistake 19:49:46 $60 seems "a bit steep" even with the nice wood carrying box 19:50:57 price for what, a solid max payne? 19:52:09 kmc: do it 19:55:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:56:41 `helloerjan 19:56:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: helloerjan: not found 20:00:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:00:18 who set fungot to youtube 20:00:19 Phantom_Hoover: kool song, incredible video. it's no longer about the passengers to know. they're hallucinations from the album, going to crash ( with jaybad of course there was nothing supernatural in max payne 20:00:29 ^style 20:00:29 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube* 20:00:38 ^style jargon 20:00:38 Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) 20:00:45 fungot: is this fun? 20:00:45 olsner: people, vi is from hell with it we've resigned ourselves to its very core. this means it is being lost unless the application for which the resource manager uses in some article al writes: 20:01:02 fungot speaks out in favour of emacs 20:01:03 Phantom_Hoover: in the original version of " modern ui", " who ?am ?i" ( " not a bug report), but without binaries ( v only) or filename, one doesn't respond at all. 20:01:08 hmm, a bit gibbrishy 20:01:15 now he's getting existential 20:01:16 Phantom_Hoover, I think it may have been me. I apologize in case it was 20:01:19 ^style fungot 20:01:19 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 20:01:32 double the fungot 20:01:32 Phantom_Hoover: it's just so stupid that ' stty erase h' has, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, can also be used freely and as to being in a fright. " oh, don't go on and on about 20:02:43 Do you know that limitations of Famicom and other systems can be made into a core gameplay mechanics? 20:03:23 i knownothing. 20:03:36 i wonder what would happen if you made the only fungot dataset fungot, kept all the other commands, and made him continuously update the dataset 20:03:36 Phantom_Hoover:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov 20:03:41 -!- zt has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0/20130803193343]). 20:03:48 :') 20:04:12 fungot is such a polite young bot. always helps me with my groceries and assassinations 20:04:12 Bike: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over, with much ado. your sister is the better part made mercie, i should think at least, that is expressions which have not been able, to assume responsibilities. he went on, " the conclusion is, then thou, the greatest soldier, de. she wanna be friends, his sta 20:04:58 i remember when fungot tried to kill me 20:04:58 Phantom_Hoover:, so i'd have to consider that although the reduction in actual transportation section from former friend lives, their door had my computer with full u+ support" then they both bowed low. just keep the safe or tub and emptied it does. perhaps you will be thrust with both arms; the blade broke the surface than that acted on by like causes inducing similar modifications. with lynx, she never does 20:05:00 good times 20:05:14 fungot: how were you going to kill Phantom_Hoover? and why? 20:05:14 olsner: and it's self-modifying techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace? 20:07:26 anybody about know something about state machine design? 20:07:51 in particular, i'm trying to identify if the particular thing i'm doing would benefit from that model, but i don't know it in any detail 20:08:32 well what's the thing you're doing. 20:08:45 i'm trying to find a nicer way of dealing with problems in a stateful manner.. that is, i've got a number of steps i want to accomplish, and various error cases that can happen along the way 20:09:01 and the error cases may set off their own group of steps, after which i want to go back 'where i was' 20:09:12 various parts may need retries or something like that 20:09:18 which is what made me think of it 20:09:37 currently it's kind of a promise-based fluid interface and it doesn't play nice with looping style actions 20:10:10 is the state after a retry identical to the similar statewithout a retry? 20:10:15 yes 20:10:33 well, maybe not 20:10:37 if i want to give up after x retries 20:10:59 yeah, that's mildly gross to do as a regular old state machine diagram. 20:11:15 i kind of suspected as much 20:11:38 it was fairly nice until i got into error cases :P 20:11:53 just never run into errors. simple 20:12:18 wish it were :) 20:12:32 promises may still be .. promising .. lol 20:12:41 but not in the way this thing is structured 20:22:41 13:20 rust lacks any ability to talk about higher kinds 20:22:41 13:20 so it generally is too crippled for me to write any of my kind of code in 20:30:03 Man, I thought I was going insane because I remembered shachaf saying that but I couldn't see it 20:30:09 Turns out I was just scrolled up a little 20:31:01 turns out Taneb was one pgdn short of a full scrollback 20:31:54 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:40:09 shachaf, did you ping the rusty chap you ought to for Rust? 20:41:01 I put a "Kjugobe's Trigger" spell into my computer (which would be the next step from "Kjugobe's Timer" and "Kjugobe's Notification", I suppose) 20:41:49 zzo38, it could be betweeen Kjugobe's Safety and Kjugobe's Muzzle 20:42:14 Taneb: No it shouldn't, at least, in alphabetical order it shouldn't. 20:42:40 (Although I am not talking about alphabetical order with the other two spells, either) 20:42:59 zzo38, can you redesign firearms so that the components are in alphabetical order? 20:43:57 Taneb: ? 20:44:02 I don't think so; I don't know a lot about firearms. 20:44:46 shachaf, there is a person in this channel, who has significantly more power to fix the Rust situation than the rest of us 20:44:57 I do not want to make a redundant ping 20:45:11 But his nick begins with k and ends with c and has an m in the middle 20:45:55 (Some spells can notify the caster. This spell allows you to modify it so that instead of notifying the caster, it will have trigger a different effect.) 20:48:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:49:36 Do you think Famicompo ought to have a designation for the use of software PCM? 21:00:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aar04alxLf4 21:08:36 STARTING UNIVERSITY JUST GOT SCARIER 21:08:36 AAAAAAH 21:08:36 "Dear Student 21:08:39 The number of students coming to York this year has been higher than forecast. In order to meet this unexpected increase in accommodation applications, the University has entered into an agreement with a private Halls of Residence." 21:09:09 like, they're contracting out dorms? 21:10:22 I think so 21:10:25 private Hells of Residence, sounds nice 21:11:28 well are you even going to be in one of those dorms 21:11:44 I'm slightly panicking 21:12:08 better play it safe and stay in hexham 21:12:09 look, i live in a dorm administered by the school. i assure you that it can't really get that much worse anyway 21:12:29 my school is renting a residence from teh school next door 21:12:34 since we got too many students and they didn't get enough 21:12:43 I'm being given the opportunity to book into this place at a university-subsidized rate 21:12:51 (because the university guaranteed accommodation) 21:13:01 Taneb: that sounds a lot like my school! 21:13:18 afaik no universities here provide their own dorms or accomodation, you pretty much have to get an apartment like normal people 21:16:06 olsner, it's still an unexpected hurdle 21:16:36 how do you even get an apartment in first year 21:16:52 like you can't exactly pick some flatmates 21:16:56 violent takeover 21:17:01 alt. squatting 21:17:02 usually you try to get one before the first year 21:17:53 Phantom_Hoover, single rooms 21:19:16 so like halls except not actually halls 21:20:15 I'm in Corridors of Residence 21:28:58 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 21:31:10 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Client Quit). 21:32:18 `slist 6.6.2 21:32:19 slist 6.6.2: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 21:34:25 Thank you 21:35:18 yw 21:35:27 Really more like 6.6.i2 21:35:53 6.6.2? 21:35:55 oh 21:35:58 right 21:36:01 dammit 21:36:07 I could have beat you to it! 21:36:19 :p 21:36:27 I'm not even using any notifier right now 21:37:18 combining `*lists and notifiers is cheating 21:37:35 sgeo was using a notifier for ages 21:37:43 How? What notifiers are you refering to anyways? 21:38:03 A program that tells me almost immediately when Homestuck updates 21:38:44 How does that work? Does it use RSS? Does it use a message send directly to your computer? Does it use IRC? 21:38:52 Also, does Facebook count as a notifier for olist? Usually, when there's an update, I get Facebook notifications about people liking my page's status 21:39:31 zzo38: Well, I had several at one point. One on my phone that presumably checked RSS, and one that I made in another channel that checked ETag of the RSS feed 21:39:47 zzo38, there are many different notifiers, I've seen all three of those strategies 21:40:36 Well, you could make a program that notifies when receiving a IRC message starting with "`slist" or whatever, if it help 21:41:20 zzo38, that's an abomination 21:41:40 Maybe to you it is. 21:42:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:42:26 But why? 21:43:08 It takes all the fun out of it 21:43:28 I don't think so. 21:44:05 zzo38: it means that when logreading i have to search the logs for more than my nick, which is inconvenient. 21:44:45 Goodnight 21:44:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:45:02 oerjan: If you do it manually, then surely. But depending exactly what you are looking for, it might or might not help. 21:45:41 zzo38: it's what i do whenever i log on irc to see if someone pinged me since i left. 21:47:43 Of course it is a HackEgo program; you can make it do whatever you want it to do (if saying your name is all that is necessary, then you can do that). Sometimes HackEgo is unavailable though, so in those cases it may help to still filter directly on the command 21:48:52 (I have used "`danddreclist" when HackEgo was unavailable, although when it was available again someone told me to do it again so I did; of course I might not be on, though, so don't expect me to necessarily do that) 21:51:48 zzo38: can you add me to the bdsmreclist 21:52:07 quintopia: No, because I don't know of any such thing. 21:52:39 zzo38: well, when such a thing becomes available, please add me 21:53:49 Set up the notifier in your own computer if you are interested, or add yourself on. I won't necessarily be on or remember it. 21:53:51 * oerjan swats quintopia -----### 21:54:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:54:14 we'll have to set up a bdsmreclistlist for updates on the existential status of bdsmreclist. 21:54:35 zzo38: i think oerjan wants to be on the list too, thanks 21:55:20 * oerjan hits quintopia with the saucepan ===\__/ 22:03:54 bdsmreclist...... 22:04:20 Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 22:04:37 oerjan, that pun is a form of bdsm 22:04:49 well record it then 22:05:12 `run echo " Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits" > bsdmreclist 22:05:16 No output. 22:05:44 `run echo "* oerjan swats quintopia -----###" >> bdsmreclist 22:05:47 No output. 22:06:04 that's a start 22:08:16 what the shit 22:08:20 `run ls b* 22:08:22 bdsmreclist \ bi \ bsdmreclist \ \ bin: \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ @ \ ؟ \ WELCOME \ \ \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ anonlog \ aseen \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ calc \ cat \ CaT \ cats \ danddreclist \ define \ delquote \ e \ emmental \ emoclew \ emptylist \ erflist \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fueue \ ga 22:08:38 there's something up with the fshg browser 22:11:15 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:53 with what 22:13:31 Phantom_Hoover: i have no idea what you are talking about 22:16:21 well it had two listings for bdsmreclist 22:16:40 no, look closer 22:18:46 alternately get treatment for dyslexia 22:19:59 *+-iv- 22:21:13 although if you're right half/some the time, maybe alternately getting treatment is what you want 22:22:52 * oerjan is reminded of the house episode with a painter whose paintings made no sense but only in some months. 22:28:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:44:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 22:46:11 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:11:26 `slist 23:11:28 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:12:43 hm better than average mezzacotta today, i think 23:13:16 *than usual 23:22:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:22:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 23:42:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Death-related_lists 23:42:20 i like how they felt the number of death-related lists was getting out of hand 23:42:33 so they made a bunch of subcategories 23:42:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists 23:44:40 still kind of sad they deleted the worst article, "list of lists of fictional things" 23:48:37 is there a category:life-related lists, or should i sue wikipedia for antinatalism 2013-09-03: 00:07:21 -!- carado has joined. 00:07:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:08:25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_which_do_not_list_themselves sort of disappointing 00:08:42 what would bdsmreclist be... 00:12:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:42:41 -!- b4dh3r0_ has joined. 00:42:41 -!- b4dh3r0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:49 finally, today's girl genius update. (also, a good one.) 00:43:03 oh 00:43:17 `gglist 00:43:41 shachaf: it updates too regularly to have a list. but lately unfortunately not on the hour. 00:44:30 c.clist 00:44:48 wat 00:45:00 -!- b4dh3r0__ has joined. 00:45:19 kmclist 00:45:42 i subscribed to that once 00:47:18 -!- b4dh3r0_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:47:38 oh yeah? 00:47:45 when would it update 00:48:38 kmc: don't you know when you update? i guess you might get a memory wipe or something. 00:49:56 yeah 00:50:10 I keep declining the updates because I've rooted my own brain and don't want to get locked out again 00:50:22 it was updating for a while until you moved to sf 00:50:28 now i don't get updates :'( 00:51:39 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists 00:51:46 00:53:51 Gracenotes: too bad i'm editing in wysisyg mode so i don't see that comment 00:54:40 ooh seriously bad side effect of that 00:54:53 well, you're not alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_lists_of_lists&action=history&year=2013&month=-1&tagfilter=visualeditor 00:55:08 not shown: subsequent reverts 00:55:39 the -1st month is my favorite 00:58:43 hm the prev link in tagfiltered history gives the difference to the previous tagged one 01:01:35 shachaf: I don't get it... 01:01:40 getting rid of oldid in the query will fix that 01:02:04 seems a bit buggish 01:02:38 kmc: get what 01:03:30 kmc: oh, kmclist was about job updates 01:03:32 oh 01:08:59 Would it be possible to make a typed brainfuck? 01:09:09 noep it's impossible 01:11:05 seems possible to me 01:11:08 everything's the same type :D 01:12:41 looks like the comment bug has been noticed long ago but not prioritized enough, but is now being discussed again. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49603 01:14:30 I'll just get oerjan to do my edits for me. 01:14:55 you think this has worked great so far? 01:15:02 Yep. 01:15:09 O KAY 01:15:14 Worked great for me, that is. 01:15:32 well i guess no worse than if you hadn't asked. 01:16:11 usually it's worked out in my experience 01:19:05 O_KAY the lesser-known fcntl flag 01:27:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:47 -!- augur has joined. 01:49:12 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:49:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:24:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:33:53 -!- jconn has joined. 02:44:19 Which characters is a program using literate comment style more likely to start with, do you think? I think that first, lines starting with # are skipped, and then spaces are skipped and if the next character is % or < then it is literate style. Is there others? 02:47:18 You can use a AWK program to convert bird-style code into plain code. 02:47:57 Here is the AWK program: sub(/^>/,"") 02:47:58 haskell also has the \begin{code} style 02:48:30 oerjan: Yes, there is that style too (and you can mix them in the same file, which might be useful). Haskell does, but other programs might not. 02:51:08 the haskell 2010 report says " It is not advisable to mix these two styles in the same file." 02:51:56 oerjan: Yes it may not be advisable, although you can do so. It isn't normally useful, but there can be useful in a few cases possibly. 02:52:36 Some extensions of AWK that are implemented I don't find very good, although there are some things I would find useful but aren't implemented. These include a \ operator to match parts of the previously used regular expression as a boolean, that matched; another would be a PARSER special block for parsing input in a way other than the normal way (and then have a "yield" command to yield records for the rest of the program to match) 02:55:26 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:55:28 I have read about some .lhs syntax highlighter that tries to guess whether bird-style or LaTeX-style is used by the first line of the file, although I don't think that is best idea; better would be to just support both. (I have some bird-style files starting with % and the syntax highlighter incorrectly tries to parse it as a LaTeX-style file) 02:57:42 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:58:32 The program is Pygments. "the style is autodetected: if the first non-whitespace character in the source is a backslash or percent character, LaTeX is assumed, else Bird" 03:11:27 /^\\end\{code\}$/{x=0};x||sub(/^>/,"");/^\\begin\{code\}$/{x=1} 03:11:42 Now it work with Bird-style and LaTeX-style. 03:21:48 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 03:22:00 "Real WTF is using console.log without testing for it's existence. " 03:22:01 Fuck IE 03:22:31 Although this is not a problem at work, fortunately for my sanity 03:22:33 What would you think are good features to have in a hardware programming language? 03:22:36 internet explorer more like internet suckass dumb stupidheader 03:23:28 Bike: wow, Sgeo and you sure showed it 03:23:58 IE will think again before being stupid and suck!! now it knows it's got a bad ass staring it down 03:24:23 MICRO$HAFT WINBLOWZE 03:24:47 kmc deals the final blow 03:24:52 lol 03:25:02 `log VENEREAL 03:25:23 well anyway 03:25:33 2010-10-05.txt:21:44:04: a language doesn't travel halfway across the globe without picking up a few venereal diseases 03:25:50 It's two seconds to make a console in any browser that does nothing if there is no real console, but why should this even be necessary? 03:26:41 I have written some things (too much incomplete, though) about idea I have, which I called "HWPL" and has many significant differences from Verilog and VHDL. One is there are no numeric types; only vectors. Another is that numbers are in binary notation by default and you need a prefix to specify decimal and hex. 03:30:12 shachaf: I purchased more things I don't need today 03:30:33 how do I stop 03:30:43 or how do I continue, either tbh 03:30:45 Gracenotes: why put off until tomorrow things that you can buy today 03:30:46 lose all your money 03:30:48 v. convenient 03:31:06 http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html 03:31:08 Another difference is that vectors can have some bits input and some output (and even analog), you can have a CONNECT command similar to Verilog's "assign" but you can put the output on the other side (such as if it is not originally known which one is output), names that aren't keywords have a sigil prefix, and many others too 03:31:11 although, chances are, I do need a front bike light 03:31:23 I haven't needed it so far, and I have avoided getting killed at night so far 03:38:03 I'm doing an inventory of all of the things I might ever want to conceivably plug in for using electricity 03:38:19 how many of them are firearms 03:38:21 hopefully this will guide my choice of a power strip between cost and convenience 03:38:30 0 atm 03:42:56 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:47:49 zzo38: it should allow the user to draw timing diagrams like so ┌──┐ 03:47:50 ──┘ └── 03:47:52 fuck 03:48:32 i'll see myself out 03:50:06 imo commutative timing diagrams 03:51:47 kmc: I think I understand what you mean even though it is written wrongly 03:52:06 good 04:00:42 shachaf: What is that? 04:00:59 zzo38: Not sure. 04:02:12 kmc: What I do not know, is what exactly to do with such timing diagrams, anyways, though 04:03:10 Usually you should write the program to implement the correct timing, rather than explicitly writing the diagram (although it may be a text format that, once all macros are expanded, can convert between text and diagram format) 04:10:50 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:15:55 what's that one thing that wraps esoteric programs and makes syscalls depending on what they output to stdout 04:17:29 I forget. 04:17:33 -!- b4dh3r0__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:17:40 thanks, that was helpful 04:18:16 Hopefully the information is available in esolang wiki, though. 04:24:09 currently listening to a band named HṚṢṬA 04:24:12 they're pretty good! 04:31:13 similar to GY!BE? 04:31:36 based on their top song by YT search ranking 04:32:08 What tie breaker system do you prefer in Pokemon card? 04:32:13 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:34:00 so what are some good unicode band names 04:36:41 101FC PHAISTOS DISC SIGN WAVY BAND [] 04:36:58 sadly, not The Artist Formerly Known as Prince 04:50:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:52:38 -!- augur has joined. 04:57:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:58:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:58:59 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:18:47 Gracenotes: yeah similar and a lot of the same people are involved 05:20:25 olsner: KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT 05:21:44 I have added some entries into the glossary of Pokemon card puzzles; see if it is good now. Can you please look, make comment/question/suggest/complaint of it? 05:21:49 I don't think there is any band named Duff's Device but there is one named Too Close For Missiles (or at least a song) 05:22:38 Then make up some band named Duff's Device, especially if there are people in there named Duff 05:23:10 Pokemon card glossary is: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/terminology.txt 05:23:39 membership in GY!BE overlaps with many other bands including HṚṢṬA, Set Fire To Flames, Black Ox Orkestar, and {A,The,Thee} Silver Mt. Zion Memorial Orchestra [& Tra-La-La Band [with Choir]] 05:26:24 Efrim Menuck and bandmate Jessica Moss have a child named Ezra Steamtrain Moss Menuck 05:31:04 I have written something about some society (and corresponding prestige class) for use in Dungeons&Dragons game, so they can put some NPCs of this one and they would have more advantages over me and over others I may try to protect, so this makes it more difficult game. 05:32:47 kmc: Well, I think that should be their proper name, considering the circumstances 05:44:14 `slist 05:44:15 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:44:29 (That one an IRC notifier told me) 05:45:53 What IRC notifier is that? 05:46:17 The one I wrote 05:46:29 Apparently it has a memory leak though, so the operator doesn't operate it 24/7 05:46:35 I should attempt to fix it at some point 05:47:30 Should there be a sequence number or something like that after some `*list command? 05:47:56 Just something to identify which update it is would be typical 05:48:06 This one would probably be HOLYSHIT, but the last would be HOLYSHIT too 05:48:52 (My own `danddreclist uses session numbers afterward; others might have other sequence numbers though) 05:54:25 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 06:19:55 Can't you use numbers (or dates, or filenames, or whatever) instead of "HOLYSHIT"? 06:35:57 There's a natural sequence number for slist (it's at 916), but I for one can never remember which was the last number I saw. 06:36:08 (Then again, I don't pay any attention to slist either, because RSS.) 06:36:38 Also, it's kind of funny how all the local news media are full of the Nokia thing. 06:38:04 -!- atehwa has joined. 06:39:51 What Nokia thing is that? 06:40:23 Do you like this kind of melody? l8 e4gc'fac'g ^bd'fgfed e4gc'fac'g ^1 (There is chord too, and it is longer than just this, too) 06:40:37 Microsoft just bought most of Nokia's phone-making business and patents for 5.44 billion euros. 06:40:49 Well, subject to regulatory approval and all that usual stuff. 06:44:27 `olist (916) 06:44:29 olist (916): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 06:44:33 (This one's from my sister.) 06:46:09 Oh, did I confuse slist and olist? How bad. 06:46:13 There are so many lists. 06:57:40 !!! 06:59:00 @addquote Do you like this kind of melody? l8 e4gc'fac'g ^bd'fgfed e4gc'fac'g ^1 06:59:00 Unknown command, try @list 06:59:03 `addquote Do you like this kind of melody? l8 e4gc'fac'g ^bd'fgfed e4gc'fac'g ^1 06:59:08 1097) Do you like this kind of melody? l8 e4gc'fac'g ^bd'fgfed e4gc'fac'g ^1 07:43:15 olsner: KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT <-- was this for oerjan? 07:57:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:01:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:08:21 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:49:30 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:59:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:06:32 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 09:10:33 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:13:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:20:23 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:27:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:29:33 Mornin' 09:30:36 hello Taneb 09:30:39 what's up? 09:30:49 Not much 09:31:29 yeah well 09:31:30 same here 09:42:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:04:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:06:09 -!- augur has joined. 10:14:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 11:03:42 `slist s 11:03:44 slist s: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 11:03:54 Seen it already 11:05:31 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:16:50 Is a logarithmic spiral a fractal? 11:30:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:40:14 -!- jconn has joined. 11:49:15 Taneb, no 11:49:29 Okay 11:49:32 no more than an infinite straight line is 11:52:38 wp says fractals are sets with fractal dimensions that 'usually' exceed their topological dimensions, which is a bit odd 11:59:32 after further reading i conclude that nobody can actually agree on what fractals are, except that they have to be kind of swirly and self-similar 12:09:36 It depends on which drugs you are using 12:15:36 -!- conehead has joined. 12:15:55 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:16:47 -!- conehead has joined. 12:27:36 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:28:01 -!- Koen__ has quit (Client Quit). 12:28:21 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:36:25 -!- yorick has joined. 12:44:27 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:46:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:11:21 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 13:11:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:12:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:20:32 -!- boily has joined. 13:22:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:24:34 good third age morning. 13:25:20 @tell nooodl the dand list notifications seem to work well, but they still point to the same level20. is that normal? 13:25:21 Consider it noted. 13:30:51 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 13:31:25 -!- Koen__ has joined. 13:44:00 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 13:44:42 -!- carado has joined. 14:07:21 'morning ^^ 14:08:38 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:10:34 Roujo: I wonder how the Pouti will fare today. he spent the weekend on a saruman costume for the Initiatioooooon (♪ scare chord ♪) 14:11:02 That reminds me 14:11:10 I need to figure out how to cosplay Gandalf the Grey 14:11:21 boily: So I saw =P 14:12:19 Roujo: let me guess. he posted stuff on that newfangled Facebook thing the kids are all on these days. 14:12:48 boily: In a chat with me, yeah 14:12:49 Taneb: I should get to cosplay some time. by the looks of it, it seems very fun. 14:14:31 Yeah, it's all fun 14:14:35 Not at all wallet-burning 14:14:56 brb 14:16:02 oh, while my synapses are beginning their daily workout and coherent thoughts are forming, were there any major modifications made to the Wisdoms in the past few days? 14:27:39 -!- legend303 has joined. 14:29:20 -!- legend303 has left. 14:49:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:49:53 helooodl. 14:50:45 boily: I don't think so, no 14:51:24 helloily 14:51:38 hi 14:51:52 Hello, friend from the club ^^ 14:52:07 ~duck club 14:52:08 club definition: a heavy usually tapering staff especially of wood wielded as a weapon. 14:52:10 boily: re: lambdabot: i've wondered the same thing. i think zzo keeps updating level20.tex but i have no idea what the "levels" are 14:52:12 hi Roujo 14:53:07 nooodl: re: re: oh: la: lambdabot: makes sense. 14:53:15 @tell zzo38 what is a level? 14:53:15 Consider it noted. 14:54:19 `? danddreclist 14:54:22 http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available) \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 14:54:29 I wonder if you can clear a branch while wielding a club as a melee character... 14:54:35 good addition 14:54:53 yeah http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/ contains only level20.tex 14:55:00 and some other stuff related to level20 14:56:01 -!- Solain has joined. 14:56:05 `relcome Solain 14:56:08 ​Solain: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:56:11 hey 14:56:55 Heya ^^ 14:56:56 nooodl: maybe it's only a coincidence that the letters form “level”. maybe it's a cipher based on zzo38's name, and it's parsed as “le”, then “vel20”. 14:57:38 hmm guys, im only a novice programer, but on what language do people actually build their own language? asm? 14:57:55 nah. rarely 14:57:59 Whatever you like, really 14:58:02 really? 14:58:08 The interpreter can be written in anything 14:58:15 What matters is the language spec itself ^^ 14:58:19 esolangs, at least, tend to be written in much more high-level languages 14:58:25 such as c? 14:58:28 Sure! 14:58:32 Or C++ 14:58:35 Or Python 14:58:38 Or Brainfuck 14:58:49 hehe writing an esolang on an esolang 14:59:13 Solain: a common hobby, and a very interesting one too. 14:59:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Self-interpreters 14:59:35 you are kidding me 14:59:40 Nope 14:59:56 he had a lot of time on his hands ay? 15:00:09 They had, yeah 15:00:23 Heck 15:00:26 Here's a whole page 15:00:26 http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters 15:00:39 don't worry. people will scrounge and munge and maim your creations, and do wonderful and horrendous things with them. 15:00:39 hahah 15:00:48 So it goes 15:00:50 oh gawd 15:01:18 Deadfish has a way to output things but it has no way to input them! 15:01:27 the heck 15:01:32 not a problem. hth. 15:01:40 * Roujo glares at boily 15:01:58 * boily whistles innocently 15:02:12 i would like to see someone building a game engine on brainfuck 15:02:19 that would be funyy 15:02:19 ~duck boily 15:02:20 --- No relevant information 15:02:20 better 15:02:23 a libary 15:02:29 Solain: already done. and done. 15:02:30 With books and all! 15:02:33 no way 15:02:37 a game libary? 15:02:42 on brainfuck? 15:02:43 We're kind of like Zombo.com here 15:02:45 both at the same time? no idea. 15:02:46 Everything is possible 15:02:51 The only limit... is yourself 15:02:53 Welcome 15:02:55 To #esoteric 15:03:07 i found my place 15:03:14 oh fungot. someone has to make an official mp3 of that. 15:03:14 boily: and is one thing which you might want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has just said! ...wh...what g...l...e...n...n? 15:03:29 I think e broke 15:04:54 Solain: Soon, you will learn about ~duck and `? and hth and all of these wonderful things 15:05:10 ~duck? 15:05:10 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 15:05:15 Except for hth, which isn't that wonderful, really 15:05:18 like duck duck goose? 15:05:22 Kinda 15:05:27 never played it 15:05:39 ~duck Esolang 15:05:40 An esoteric programming language (sometimes shortened to esolang) is a programming language designed to test the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, or as a joke. 15:05:46 ~duck Brainfuck 15:05:46 The brainfuck programming language is an esoteric programming language noted for its extreme minimalism. 15:06:19 i download an pascal ide, that does everything but pascal 15:06:23 gg 15:06:32 ~duck Pascal 15:06:33 His early work included the invention of the adding machine and syringe, and the co-development with Fermat of the mathematical theory of probability. 15:06:40 Not quite >_> 15:06:42 But yeah 15:06:43 whats duck 15:06:47 Oh 15:06:49 Oh 15:06:53 im not going to google it 15:07:07 boily: Shall I ask him the questiön? Or should you? 15:07:14 ~duck duck duck go 15:07:15 Duck Duck Go is a search engine based in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania that uses information from crowd-sourced sites (like Wikipedia) with the aim of augmenting traditional results and improving relevance. 15:07:29 web crawler 15:07:38 Solain: ~duck performs duck duck go queries 15:07:53 so.. 15:07:56 yeah 15:08:41 nice(?) 15:08:47 * Roujo shrugs 15:08:56 :3 15:09:12 It's one of the ways to ask what the hell people are talking about here 15:09:16 Or about stuff you don't know 15:09:25 oh 15:09:29 ooh 15:09:46 ~duck ~duck 15:09:47 I am the duck. Dax the duck. 15:11:27 i want to start programming my own esolang, but i havent thought of a concept yet 15:11:46 ^^ 15:11:57 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:12:00 i thought of writing it in 1337 lang but it will be a little bit too cheesy 15:12:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/1337 15:12:26 Welp 15:12:28 Nope 15:12:35 Not relevant after all =P 15:12:41 not like that 15:12:42 There was one, though 15:12:44 like 15:12:47 not like that at all 15:13:03 Ah, this one 15:13:03 http://esolangs.org/wiki/L33t 15:13:28 but programmers who do that are "teh sUxX0r". HAHAHAHHAHAHH 15:13:34 i luv this guy 15:13:40 ^^ 15:15:03 ok, so leet speak is catched 15:15:07 now what 15:15:12 hmmm 15:16:48 hehe, a language that is all made from infinte loops 15:29:12 *chucks a bucket of water* 15:30:06 standards for eso have kind of gone up, you've got things like twoducks and eodermdrome to compete with 15:30:31 me? 15:30:50 sure 15:31:00 but im doing this for fun 15:31:13 not competition 15:31:26 well, yeah, but you probably still want to do something interesting. 15:31:28 >It is uncomputable on a Turing machine; it even allows you to solve the halting problem. 15:31:32 SURE 15:31:45 i don't understand this "i want to make an esolang...but i have no idea what to make" thing really. i always thought that "i have an idea for an esolang!" was the first step. 15:32:12 i had one but i didnt know how to do it, now i do 15:32:17 btw 15:32:18 which allows you to go back in time and change things 15:32:31 thats easy to acheive 15:32:37 mine will also do coffee 15:32:46 beat that twoducks 15:33:06 any esolang that makes coffee is worth a look 15:33:19 anything that makes coffee is worth a look 15:33:29 the question is: is the coffee turing-complete? 15:33:36 bah. when did this channel allow in all these druggies 15:33:55 you should make a metaesolang. the language which makes it easy to make new esolangs. 15:33:58 i bet you could make a neat non-equilibrium reaction with coffee, which could let you do some nice computey stuff. 15:34:04 whose a druggie 15:34:15 His 15:34:23 h3h3 15:34:41 you urchins and your coffee 15:34:52 my coffee? 15:34:59 coffee is good for the soul and the hangover 15:35:07 and for the headaches 15:35:13 Coffee is Good 15:35:15 Coffee is Life 15:35:16 yeah 15:35:18 All Hail Coffee 15:35:20 the headaches are a result of the hangover 15:35:23 no no 15:35:41 (two times no for both of you) 15:35:54 cause cthultu the computer god 15:35:56 and 15:36:01 cause i dont have hangovers 15:36:11 I am the Gate 15:36:12 have you considered getting drunker 15:36:13 I am the Key 15:36:30 have you considerd the fact that im under-aged? 15:36:40 Does it matter? 15:36:51 sorta 15:36:56 one more year dude 15:37:03 and i will be as drunk as a goat 15:37:06 until than 15:37:08 no 15:37:11 Goats are drunk? 15:37:13 or nope 15:37:15 or nop 15:37:19 NO-OP 15:37:19 yes they are 15:37:26 99% of time 15:37:34 have you considered the fact that 420 blaze it every day 15:37:49 see http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/174/2/b/goat_meme_by_existtraiesc-d6ab6ga.jpg 15:37:53 fact is a fact 15:37:57 they are drunk 15:38:01 here is a pic 15:38:14 `run ls wisdom/goat 15:38:15 ls: cannot access wisdom/goat: No such file or directory 15:38:17 `run ls wisdom/goats 15:38:19 ls: cannot access wisdom/goats: No such file or directory 15:38:26 `? goats 15:38:27 goats? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:38:28 | 15:38:28 o/`¯º 15:38:32 -!- TheDoomSong has joined. 15:38:33 That too 15:38:35 there you have it. 15:38:39 `relcome TheDoomSong 15:38:42 ​TheDoomSong: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:38:43 hello doom song 15:38:49 rankyew 15:39:08 welcome to the talk about drunken goats 15:39:08 plinkplink 15:39:17 `run echo Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details. > wisdom/goats 15:39:21 No output. 15:39:40 exception detected, Solain too stornk 15:39:57 ~duck stornk 15:39:58 --- No relevant information 15:40:01 Welp 15:40:10 stronk=strong 15:40:15 -!- conehead has joined. 15:40:21 ask solain for dets 15:40:29 hello conehead 15:41:02 *quiet, 2 quiet* 15:41:18 hi 15:41:24 hi 15:42:17 ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:42:18 | 15:42:18 º¯`\o 15:42:23 let us stop talking about drunken goats, and talk about interepter building 15:42:33 *smooth* 15:42:38 i built an interpreter once, but he fell on me. 15:42:52 I built an interpreter in Reno, but I can't recall why 15:42:53 feel better soon m8 15:44:36 *chucks more water* 15:46:41 hi 15:47:05 hi 15:47:08 again 15:48:51 -!- TheDoomSong has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:51:27 back from meeting! 15:51:34 hai 15:51:42 Roujo: too lazy to check if Solain was The Questiöned. was he? 15:51:48 (or she. you never know.) 15:51:53 he m8 15:51:56 Solain: おはよう! 15:52:01 there are no girls on the internet 15:52:08 rule number something of the internet 15:52:10 *cough* uhm... 15:52:14 unless 15:52:22 you have a proof 15:52:26 that she is a girl 15:52:29 * boily points to Fiora 15:52:30 like a live proof 15:52:32 she is. 15:52:36 don't do this, man. 15:52:37 * quintopia points to misogyny 15:52:38 we're adults. 15:52:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:52:50 jk 15:53:03 if you are so serious.. 15:53:07 anyway 15:53:17 [18:51] Roujo: too lazy to check if Solain was The Questiöned. was he? 15:53:36 deal with dat? 15:54:26 back to reading than 15:54:27 Solain: he is Bike of the Innocuously Serious Replies. you can defeat him by lozenging his eyes. 15:54:56 boily: i think i understood only 20% of that sentence 15:55:21 Solain: ask Koen (when he'll join) how he feels about not understanding what I say. 15:55:33 time to lunch! 15:55:45 boily: I haven't Questiöned em, no. Not yet. 15:55:45 boily: im afraid i wont understand him 15:56:00 whats the deal with the weird o 15:56:05 is dat like 15:56:11 part of the mystery 15:56:13 and drama 15:56:24 it's tradition 15:56:28 amazing 15:56:30 Traditiön, yes. 15:56:37 you can save time and avoid tradition by just filling out the survey in the topic 15:56:41 That too 15:56:50 https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q this? 15:56:57 Yeah 15:57:06 do you accept pesterchums? 15:57:08 a lozenge is one of those diamond characters. ◊ 15:57:11 `quote ◊ 15:57:13 1018) ◊_______________________◊ help. jesus christ elliott apply pressure evenly when jamming eyes open 15:57:19 guys 15:57:24 do you accept pesterchums? 15:57:29 is that a drug 15:57:31 no 15:57:32 if so: yes 15:57:36 no no 15:57:37 well what's the point then. 15:57:38 i accept persterbots 15:57:43 not real people 15:57:47 did someone say drugs 15:57:52 dudes 15:57:52 Solain, got any yellow bentines 15:57:59 real people complain when you do things like kick them or shoot them in the eye 15:58:06 IM NOT SELLING DRUGS 15:58:06 mnoqy: #drugz. 15:58:11 Bike: do you accept hugz 15:58:15 are you selling #drugz 15:58:18 shachaf: often 15:58:21 gawd dayum it 15:58:24 Solain, so are you the boz-boz? 15:58:29 NO IM NOT 15:58:36 I think e is 15:58:47 this is getting out of hand 15:58:52 I'll settle for a quart of triplesod. 15:58:52 So it goes. 15:59:14 Solain: nothing gets out of hand as long as you keep a beer there 15:59:14 A quart? Come on. Do I have to go all SI up on you? =P 15:59:22 Bike: everyday?? 15:59:26 (or a bottle of lean. whatever you prefer.) 15:59:40 smoke hugs every day 16:00:08 Bike is my anti-hug 16:00:39 is narnia a legit country? 16:00:39 Brainfuck: My Anti-Drug 16:00:42 Sure 16:00:45 good 16:00:46 Depends on who you ask, though 16:00:52 Most people say no 16:00:54 Some say yes 16:01:01 You just have to find *those* 16:01:04 And keep in touch 16:01:04 i have sent the survey 16:01:08 Awesome 16:01:08 Solain: i don't think so. all its kings and queens are in exile. 16:01:14 so there's no government 16:01:17 did you put bogus answers on the survey 16:01:23 the survey is very serious solain 16:01:25 quintopia: Do you need a government to have a country? 16:01:30 wait 16:01:33 i think so 16:01:36 It is 16:01:42 Solain, are you miscalibrating the Answer? 16:01:48 Putting in Narnia would fuck up the CoM big time 16:01:58 don 16:02:05 Narnia is in another galaxy isn't it 16:02:05 now 16:02:11 now i finished the survey 16:02:11 Somewhere like that, yeah 16:02:16 Or another universe, even 16:02:21 Or another dimension entirely 16:02:33 what the hell do you actually need my body wieght for 16:02:37 yeah. totes throwing off the centroid 16:02:39 Ïa! Ïa! Aslan fthang! 16:02:53 Solain: Reasöns. 16:02:59 Ask boily. 16:03:02 Solain: how would we find a center of mass without your approximate body weigh 16:03:04 He knows 16:03:04 i just type dude in disgrace 16:03:09 *typed 16:03:28 where's the centre of mass of narnia 16:03:37 the lion dude 16:03:41 the lion 16:04:03 Fun fact: Most lions exist 16:04:19 Roujo: Is that really true? 16:04:25 I said Most 16:04:26 I know of several nonexistent lions. 16:04:27 Roujo: not true! there are far more lions in my imagination than in the world 16:04:29 it is a fun fact 16:04:33 so yeah 16:04:36 it has to be true 16:04:36 I'm not sure I know of any existent ones. 16:04:39 quintopia: You haven't seen the Lion Dimension 16:04:42 fun fact 0 = 1 16:04:49 guyz 16:04:50 GG shachaf 16:04:52 guyz 16:04:53 how often do you tell that joke shachaf 16:04:53 guyz 16:04:55 You just broke reality again 16:04:57 if I asked what was going on, would the answer make sense to me and be satisfying? 16:04:58 guyz//// 16:05:04 no 16:05:04 elliott: Do you like lions? 16:05:07 well, maybe 16:05:07 mnoqy: ""everyday"" 16:05:10 it would be boring though 16:05:15 WHATS PASCAL GUYZ 16:05:21 ~? Pascal 16:05:22 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 16:05:23 a dead theologian 16:05:24 `? Pascal 16:05:26 getting a strong "no" vibe here 16:05:26 Pascal? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:05:27 | 16:05:27 o/`¯º 16:05:31 elliott: 16:05:38 Then no, it wouldn't satisfy you 16:05:39 Sorry 16:05:42 fungot, what's pascal 16:05:42 Phantom_Hoover:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov 16:05:49 pascal is the dude who invented the first mechanical calculator 16:05:51 ~duck Pascal 16:05:51 His early work included the invention of the adding machine and syringe, and the co-development with Fermat of the mathematical theory of probability. 16:05:51 assmaster 16:05:57 ~duck Not Pascal 16:05:57 --- No relevant information 16:05:58 There 16:05:59 so yeah that's kinda neat 16:06:03 `? cpressey 16:06:05 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:06:06 quintopia: are you thinking of leibniz 16:06:11 ~duck why are we learning pascal at school 16:06:11 --- No relevant information 16:06:34 Solain, so you can do calculations mechanically hth 16:06:43 oh, pascal did it too. 16:06:43 hth m8? 16:06:50 no 16:06:50 my mistake. 16:06:52 and what mech calc? 16:07:03 what are you generally talking bout? 16:07:12 it's easier to keep your business's books usng the pascaline! 16:07:14 Oh, elliott 16:07:15 chalc chor nech noch 16:07:16 no errors guaranteed 16:07:17 I had this idea 16:07:19 blaise pascal. he invented a calculator. 16:07:28 an idea?? i love ideas 16:07:35 Remember that oerjan has this anti-hth script? 16:07:41 What if we kicked it up a notch 16:07:43 ~duck hth 16:07:43 --- No relevant information 16:07:51 `? hth 16:07:52 And put it on *your* client 16:07:53 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:08:01 ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:08:01 | 16:08:01 º¯`\o 16:08:05 So that it auto-kick people who say it =P 16:08:12 auto-kicks* 16:08:17 who fucked up `? 16:08:21 you 16:08:32 if you want abuse of op power, you could just ask me directly. 16:08:43 elliott, kick kmc plx 16:08:45 what's that face thing doing there 16:08:48 elliott: kick people who say hth hth 16:08:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 16:08:55 elliott: kick 16:08:58 Oh shit 16:08:58 -!- elliott has kicked quintopia if you insist. 16:09:03 -!- quintopia has joined. 16:09:07 thx 16:09:09 amazing op 16:09:19 itz magik 16:09:20 I take it that it actually helped =P 16:10:44 phantom_hoover Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist Phantom__Hoover can’t decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. phantom_______hoover It doesn’t get any better than this. 16:10:45 seriously where is that ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ coming from 16:10:58 wisdom pdf sure is wise 16:11:21 and inconsistently capitalised 16:11:25 `? us 16:11:27 u monad? \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:11:33 i see. 16:11:41 `cat bin/? 16:11:43 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -C7 -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g -e 's/!\?$/!/' \ #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ e 16:11:44 RAISE YOUR DONGARS 16:12:06 rnooodl just randomises the number of o's in nooodl 16:12:44 `run rm bin/cat hth 16:12:48 rm: cannot remove `hth': No such file or directory 16:12:54 `? us 16:12:56 u monad? 16:12:58 Phantom_Hoover: i'm guessing it's the e cut off there 16:13:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/8a05139b44fa/bin/%3F 16:14:08 are you guyz using irc programs or the web client 16:14:22 i dont know what is more comftrable 16:14:31 `? irc 16:14:33 irc is useless. 16:14:36 There we go 16:14:47 ~duck "irc is useless" 16:14:47 --- No relevant information 16:14:53 yep 16:15:08 yeeeep 16:15:14 I use a client 16:15:18 KVIrc 16:15:24 you amazing guy 16:15:35 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:15:38 linux or win? 16:15:42 hy koen 16:15:46 BeOS 16:15:47 brb 16:15:53 -!- Koen__ has quit (Client Quit). 16:15:58 Haiku, really 16:16:15 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:16:25 bikeu 16:16:28 ~duck BeOS 16:16:29 BeOS is an operating system for personal computers first developed by Be Inc. in 1991. 16:16:36 how do you 16:16:46 ~duck 1 16:16:47 A registry mark given by underwriters to ships in first-class condition. 16:16:52 Sure 16:17:33 `run echo An ambitiöus new Esolanger who, although underage, is eager to learn. > wisdom/Solain 16:17:37 No output. 16:17:47 You exist now 16:20:00 Roujo: hooray 16:20:47 that sounds worryingly sensible 16:20:48 about duck and web crawlers 16:20:51 did ou know 16:20:53 *you 16:20:55 can you work in a stupid joke about what country he's from, or something 16:21:27 that sites use robots.txt to block ddos attack that hapoppes from web crawlers 16:21:31 *happen 16:22:23 I've heard him called "webhead" or "wall crawler" in the past, but never "web crawler" 16:22:39 thats the official term 16:22:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler 16:22:53 Solain: Well 16:22:54 Well 16:22:54 Erm 16:22:56 Yes? 16:23:04 Wall crawlers > Web crawlers 16:23:04 yes 16:23:09 nah 16:23:13 if its wikipedied 16:23:16 it wins 16:23:17 Since you can run out of webs, but you'll never run out of walls 16:23:24 hows that possible 16:23:26 or logic 16:23:33 Can you build a web? 16:23:36 Can you build a wall? 16:23:38 you can never run out of webz 16:23:44 Which one sounds easier? 16:23:58 How many web-builders do you know? 16:24:03 How many wall-builders are there? 16:24:06 20-30 16:24:12 (web builders) 16:24:18 but there is only one web) 16:24:19 Let me guess 16:24:22 and its global 16:24:22 Your father is a spider? 16:24:33 dudeeeeeeeee im talking about the internetz 16:24:37 not archnaids 16:24:43 You mean the Interwebs? 16:24:46 sure 16:24:48 Mucho webs right there 16:24:53 whatever floats your boat 16:24:59 My boat sank in '84 16:25:03 sad story 16:25:12 Along with her love 16:25:26 write a book, make a fortune 16:25:46 Step 2: ??? 16:25:59 get drunk(?) 16:26:03 Solain: Did you know about humans.txt? 16:26:13 i dont even want to hear about it 16:26:22 http://www.google.com/humans.txt 16:26:48 ya kidding me 16:26:54 Not even 16:27:05 If I was, could I look you in the eye and say I want to meet your daughter? 16:27:12 (Thought so) 16:27:26 dont have adaughter m8 16:27:32 Exactly 16:27:36 So there you go 16:27:38 `? daughter 16:27:40 daughter? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:27:40 | 16:27:41 º¯`\o 16:27:43 Huh 16:27:46 I was sure e had one 16:28:09 didnt we allready talk bout that ima under-aged 16:28:12 no? 16:28:16 im sure we did 16:28:33 `? Solain 16:28:34 Solain? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:28:35 | 16:28:35 º¯`\o 16:28:37 ... 16:28:39 `? solanin 16:28:40 ~duck solain 16:28:40 --- No relevant information 16:28:41 solanin? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:28:41 | 16:28:42 º¯`\o 16:28:46 ~duck solanin 16:28:46 Solanin is a Japanese manga written and illustrated by Inio Asano. 16:28:51 there we go. 16:28:52 gawd 16:29:01 thats not even utterly funny 16:29:12 Didn't I just add that entry? 16:29:15 `/run ls 16:29:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /run: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /run: cannot execute: No such file or directory 16:29:16 `run ls 16:29:18 a.c \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ bsdmreclist \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ god \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ random \ run \ share \ src \ wisdom \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:29:35 WHAT THE HELL IS THE FOLDER NAME 16:29:42 ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:29:49 STOP RAISING YOUR DONGERS MAN 16:29:52 the folder name of what 16:29:52 That's a file 16:29:54 ITS NOT HEALTHY 16:30:24 does it matter? he is all there raising his dongers 16:30:46 Well yeah 16:30:52 Aren't we all? 16:30:56 no 16:31:01 Sure we are! 16:31:12 `run echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ > wisdom/Solain 16:31:16 No output. 16:31:21 `? Solain 16:31:22 no! put those dongers down right now! 16:31:22 Solain? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 16:31:23 | 16:31:23 o/`¯º 16:31:25 Whyyy 16:31:35 CAUSE IT AINT HEALTHY 16:31:35 `which ? 16:31:37 ​/hackenv/bin/? 16:31:45 `run cat wisdom/Solain 16:31:46 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:31:56 `run cat $(which ?) 16:31:58 ​#!/bin/sh \ \? "$@" | perl -C7 -pe '$_ = uc' | sed -e s/[.?]/!/g -e 's/!\?$/!/' \ #!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ e 16:32:00 guyz 16:32:04 serious disscusion 16:32:10 like 16:32:12 serious 16:32:15 okey? 16:32:20 *cough* 16:32:24 ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ > okay 16:32:32 So, what are your thoughts on the computational theory of mind. 16:32:35 how am i going to make an esolang which is all made from loops 16:32:40 oh. 16:32:41 how/ 16:32:47 i dunno. make some shit up. fuck it. fuck everything. 16:32:48 Bike: I think we're NP-Hard 16:33:18 and 16:33:23 while 1; do echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ; done 16:33:26 i need some sort of 16:33:28 `run while 1; do echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ; done 16:33:28 guide 16:33:29 or 16:33:29 bash: 1: command not found 16:33:30 like 16:33:33 guide 16:33:34 tut 16:33:36 or 16:33:38 something 16:33:40 `run while true; do echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ; done 16:33:42 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:33:47 cause it will be my first interepter 16:33:47 Nice job 16:33:47 can you try putting more than one word on each line ;_; 16:33:52 nah 16:33:59 its 16:34:00 too 16:34:01 much 16:34:02 of 16:34:02 a 16:34:04 job 16:34:08 Says the new guy to the operator 16:34:37 you do realize hitting " " isn't any harder than hitting ' 16:34:38 ' 16:34:39 op has alot oh responsob on his\her shoulders 16:34:46 *of 16:34:55 i 16:34:56 don 16:34:56 t 16:34:57 know 16:34:58 this 16:35:00 could 16:35:03 get 16:35:05 pretty 16:35:08 irritating 16:35:10 very 16:35:13 quickly 16:35:15 don't 16:35:18 you 16:35:20 think 16:35:23 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +m. 16:36:32 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -m. 16:36:35 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +v quintopia. 16:36:47 Voice the sane ones, they said 16:36:50 Wise words 16:36:56 why 16:37:00 i didnt do a thing 16:37:03 and got muted 16:37:09 The whole channel got muted =P 16:37:13 oh rly 16:37:15 Yeah 16:37:15 funny thing. just after the muting i said. 16:37:44 did the op do dat for de lolz and giglez 16:37:44 < quintopia> elliott: can you kick people who don't write their whole message in the same PRIVMSG 16:37:56 turns out it wasn't necessary 16:38:20 I do everything for de lolz and giglez! 16:38:25 or we could tell the bot to kick any one who speaks twice in a row 16:38:28 you mad man! 16:38:55 s/mad/Mad/g 16:39:46 is the irch channel hosted on the esolang wiki server? 16:39:50 *irc 16:39:55 it is on the freenode network. 16:40:01 oooh 16:40:13 well than\ 16:40:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:40:52 so you can join exciting programming channels like #PHP and #django. 16:41:00 my autocratic control of the esoteric languages universe has not yet extended to the IRC servers 16:41:15 "except for this whole op thing, i mean" 16:41:20 "got that going pretty solid" 16:41:43 elliott is op, please nerf 16:41:44 it's just not the same unless you can k-line people ;_; 16:42:03 Start irc.esolangs.org! 16:42:42 "elliott is op, please nerf" better nerf irelia 16:45:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:48:56 elliott, or indeed the file server 16:49:09 or the mailing list and the forum!!! 16:50:08 the forum is mine! 16:50:19 as in I host the read-only archive that is all that's left of it 16:50:27 also the mailing list is completely broken now, I think 16:50:45 new mailing list 16:50:47 new forum 16:52:42 new goverment 16:53:41 well, ill be back at 20-60 min 16:53:43 New World Order 16:53:46 New Brainfuck Variant 16:53:53 New Spoons For All 16:54:07 a brick in every brain 16:57:25 -!- conehead has joined. 17:00:03 -!- Solain has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:00:06 back from lunch, my terminal is trying to send me sublinicodal messages, and I get mentioned through the eldritch noise. 17:00:18 pray tell what just happened? 17:00:34 op abuse 17:00:38 the worst kind 17:00:43 elliot's gone insane 17:01:12 that's good. elliott can now serve as an example case that I myself am not insane :D 17:01:24 `? Solain 17:01:26 Solain? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:01:26 | 17:01:27 o/`¯º 17:01:52 -!- Solain has joined. 17:01:59 test 17:02:03 hellolain. 17:02:18 nice1 17:03:01 wb boily 17:03:04 how was the food 17:03:45 lets talk about our favourite food 17:03:59 ah? 17:04:04 no? 17:04:06 just me? 17:04:08 my dad> 17:04:09 very nice. a coworker and I went to a new place. it was vegetarian and lentilly :) 17:04:19 Solain: your dad is your favourite food??? 17:04:30 no m8 17:04:38 not at all 17:04:53 my faviroute food is sushi 17:04:59 quintopia: how does it feel to be voiced? is it kmcesque? 17:05:01 or however you type it in english 17:05:11 Solain: where are you from? 17:05:31 Solain: fiora, is that you? :o 17:05:40 to not awake political dissucsions, ill say narnia 17:05:46 no 17:05:49 boily: it feels like normal, except that if elliott has to mute the weirdos again, it won't stop me from feeling normal 17:05:49 im solain 17:06:06 i dont even know who fiore is 17:06:15 narnia, israel 17:06:22 oh shoot 17:06:25 ip? 17:06:30 thats low 17:06:34 hey 17:06:39 your fault for not masking 17:06:52 WHY WOULD IM MASK MY IP IN ESOLANG IRC 17:07:04 #esostalk 17:07:08 also i thought im on irc node 17:07:26 gawd this is worse than the skype ip exploit 17:07:59 also, i didnt want to say that im from israel so you would start a political debate or something 17:08:03 it's not an exploit if it's the intended behavior 17:08:04 (元のバージョンは「寿司」と言うが、sushiが可能です。) 17:08:15 "you land robbers" or something like dat 17:08:38 [20:08] <+quintopia> it's not an exploit if it's the intended behavior''''' did you read how the ip exploit work? 17:08:40 Solain: i don't think there are any palestinians in this channel, so it shouldn't turn political in any case. 17:08:49 Solain: you're not the only israelite in there, and I have a nifty list of approximate coördinates :D 17:08:53 its not only palestains 17:08:59 its everybody 17:09:01 americans 17:09:03 Solain: i type /whois and the server tells me your IP 17:09:03 russians 17:09:08 i know 17:09:14 you can also double click my name 17:09:18 sooooo...not an exploit? 17:09:22 ofcourse not 17:09:27 i talked about skype 17:09:27 then we agree 17:09:31 no 17:09:35 i talked about skype 17:09:36 we just 17:09:41 I'm pretty sure it's possible for people who aren't from Palestine to have an opinion on the conflict, but I'm also sure that I'm going to get really tempted to +m again if it happens as inanely as this seems to be edging towards 17:09:43 talked about different subjects 17:09:47 pretty sure this isn't skype 17:09:53 it isnt 17:09:55 but 17:10:12 this also isnt brainfuck coded platform, alas we talk about brainfuck 17:10:14 dont we? 17:10:39 raise your hand if you talk about brainfuck 17:10:43 im breaking my fingers here, i like to type short 17:10:53 stupidly short 17:11:11 nope i don't think we talk about brainfuck. perhaps you meant to say underload 17:11:49 kk 17:12:18 im bored 17:12:30 oh right 17:12:43 i wanted to learn how to code an interepter in C 17:12:48 but you keep this as a secret 17:13:02 Solain: you are probably in Tel Aviv, or near it. 17:13:21 ip location can find the supplier on the internet 17:13:26 not excet location 17:13:30 n00b 17:13:48 good enough for the CoM i think boily 17:13:49 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v kmc. 17:13:58 I'm used to Canadian dimensions, so for me you are near Tel Aviv anyway :p 17:14:03 a song is a weapon 17:14:06 no and yes 17:14:08 hi kmc 17:14:11 hi quintopia 17:14:13 quintopia: what's a CoM? 17:14:18 centroid 17:14:18 whose kmc? 17:14:23 ~duck kmc 17:14:23 kitten mortality complex. 17:14:28 wut? 17:14:29 easy 17:14:31 Solain: I am that I am 17:14:42 you are kitten mortality complex 17:14:46 dont ignore it 17:14:49 quintopia: I'll write that. what's the average humanoïd mass in israel? 17:15:00 -1 17:15:36 kmc dude 17:15:41 * boily whacks Solain with a blubbery blue whale 17:15:47 Solain: what's your average body weigh man we're dying to know 17:15:48 Android 4.4 is named KitKat 17:15:48 boily: for some reason a large portion of the music I listen to is from Montréal 17:15:49 Discuss 17:15:59 im under-weigh 17:16:01 so 17:16:09 anyway 17:16:11 kmc 17:16:11 100lb? 17:16:15 kmc: That's nice. Such as? =) 17:16:15 whats lb? 17:16:17 i don't kgh 17:16:18 Pound 17:16:21 ~duck lb 17:16:21 lb definition: pound. 17:16:22 Heathen units 17:16:26 ~duck pund 17:16:26 --- No relevant information 17:16:31 ~duck pound 17:16:32 American jurist who was dean of Harvard Law School and wrote several influential books, including The Spirit of the Common Law. 17:16:33 kmc: nice! amon tobin? l'orkestre des pas perdus? jérôme minière? arcade fire? 17:16:40 duuuuude 17:16:40 GY!BE and their 50 side projects 17:16:44 duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude 17:16:45 i think it's the same as 45 kg 17:16:47 also Stars 17:16:48 hi 17:16:49 are you 45 kg Solain 17:16:49 thats just sick! 17:16:53 nope 17:16:57 Solain: can you stop flooding please? 17:16:58 Arcade Fire is pretty good too 17:17:01 np 17:17:07 Stars! <3 17:17:16 for me it isnt flooding cause im on the web platform 17:17:22 which is full screen 17:17:25 Flooding is flooding - just say no 17:17:25 sorry anywys 17:17:31 i said no 17:17:33 wait 17:17:34 also I like "of Montreal" but they are from Georgia :3 17:17:35 flooding: not even once. 17:17:36 i said i will stop 17:17:41 end of deal 17:17:46 I support and do so 17:17:48 you confusing man 17:18:07 we should talk about music that isn't from montreal 17:18:08 kmc: was just trying to think of how to mention of montreal in re: the above 17:18:19 Now, can anyone help me find why `? Solain doesn't work? =/ 17:18:28 what? 17:18:32 `? Solain 17:18:32 i work 17:18:33 Solain? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:18:34 | 17:18:35 o/`¯º 17:18:35 like 17:18:40 no errors 17:18:44 `? run cat wisdom/Solain 17:18:45 run cat wisdom/Solain? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:18:45 | 17:18:46 o/`¯º 17:18:46 no dumps no memory 17:18:49 Oh 17:18:51 `run cat wisdom/Solain 17:18:51 no nothing 17:18:52 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 17:18:57 not again 17:19:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:19:04 solain returns 0 17:19:12 HAVE I BECOME YOUR MEME 17:19:15 Oh. It's case-sensitive? 17:19:22 whatis? 17:19:24 `run mv wisdom/Solain wisdom/solain 17:19:28 No output. 17:19:31 `? Solain 17:19:32 gawd dayum it 17:19:33 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 17:19:36 There we go 17:19:39 quintopia: Thanks =) 17:19:53 im confused 17:19:56 wait 17:20:03 new subject 17:20:10 does anybody here read homestuck? 17:20:15 no 17:20:17 no. 17:20:22 :( 17:20:24 let's never speak of this again 17:20:29 lets do. 17:20:32 no 17:20:34 yes 17:21:02 `? homestuck 17:21:04 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif 17:21:09 i'd be happy to not speak of homestuck with you mnoqy. i was planning on doing that anyway. 17:21:19 AGREED 17:21:28 I like that gif 17:21:35 so do i 17:21:45 thanks quintopia i'm glad you understand 17:21:59 ~duck homestuck 17:21:59 Homestuck is a webcomic written, illustrated, and animated by Andrew Hussie, and is the fourth overall webcomic published on MS Paint Adventures. 17:23:46 what a wonderful silence, someone has to ruin it 17:24:19 do you say that every time nobody speaks for one and a half minute 17:24:30 should i read homestuck 17:24:34 i said that for the first time 17:24:37 yes you should 17:24:38 `? silence 17:24:39 silence? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:24:39 | 17:24:40 º¯`\o 17:24:40 * boily repeatedly applies kinetic energy onto Solain with a +2 wooden curmudgeon of Blam 17:24:41 you should 17:24:44 maybe i should read Ulysses first 17:24:51 silence is a good means of not talking about homestuck 17:24:52 nah 17:25:03 ulysses is too long 17:25:04 Kinetic energy is best ergy 17:25:07 (a very nice curmudgeon made of driftwood. very aerodynamic.) 17:25:35 boily: a curmudgeon is an old grumpy person 17:25:43 very grumpy 17:25:45 very 17:25:52 quintopia: and? I don't see any problem with that. 17:25:52 i think you'd get more Blam with a cudgel 17:26:03 I'm not that violent. 17:26:09 ~duck curmudgeon 17:26:09 curmudgeon definition: '''archaic''' miser. 17:26:15 well 17:26:22 that didnt help 17:26:39 sure it did 17:26:45 And yet it's pretty damn accurate 17:26:50 ~duck miser 17:26:50 miser definition: a mean grasping person; '''especially''' one who is extremely stingy with money. 17:26:53 it told you it once meant miser 17:26:59 '''especially''' 17:27:01 ~duck humus 17:27:02 In soil science, humus refers to any organic matter that has reached a point of stability, where it will break down no further and might, if conditions do not change, remain as it is for centuries, if not millennia. 17:27:06 ~duck hummus 17:27:07 Hummus (-OEOQ5) is a Middle Eastern and Arabic food dip or spread made from cooked, mashed chickpeas blended with tahini, olive oil, lemon juice, salt and garlic. 17:27:12 good jon 17:27:14 job 17:27:21 Solain: Homestuck is like 6,000 pages... 17:27:26 yeah 17:27:28 welcome 17:27:30 hello Solain 17:27:31 to homestuck 17:27:32 you appear to be new here 17:27:42 you apper to be new here to me 17:27:44 Welcome to Corneria! 17:27:46 so hahaha 17:27:57 kmc dude, homestuck is long 17:28:00 very long 17:28:02 very 17:28:07 dude 17:28:16 curmudgeon type long 17:28:26 THAT long 17:28:52 solain is spammy 17:29:03 grandiosely and profusely spammy 17:29:10 you want me to shut up for a while? 17:29:26 is that even possible? 17:29:30 sure 17:29:32 just ask 17:30:03 if you're volunteering, i'm more than willing to rubber-stamp your application 17:30:24 i didnt understand 80% of that sentance 17:30:25 * boily wraps Solain in Hello Kitty Duct Tape and hogties him to a ceiling in a very post-modern and decorative manner 17:30:27 i'll notorize 17:31:33 look, i just ant to know where can i learn how to build an interepter and ill shut up for some good hours 17:31:52 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_Hours 17:31:58 It's not that you talk a lot, most of us do 17:32:16 Well, erm. Some of us, anyway. 17:32:19 it's that 17:32:19 you 17:32:20 talk 17:32:21 like this 17:32:23 and it 17:32:23 kmc: that's pretty overkill imo 17:32:25 is 17:32:28 really annoying 17:32:40 nooodl: more like underkill 17:32:49 too close for missiles 17:32:50 how about just plain old kill 17:32:50 ill try to type everything in one sentence, but it really kills my hands 17:33:16 that's the strangest excuse i've heard in quite some time 17:33:25 i got used to typing in \n, and ijust cant shake it off 17:33:29 you're just afraid that attention will move away from you if you spend a minute without saying something 17:33:32 `run ls wisdom/kill 17:33:33 don't worry. it will. 17:33:34 ls: cannot access wisdom/kill: No such file or directory 17:33:39 `run cat kill | over | under | echo > wisdom/kill 17:33:42 bash: under: command not found \ bash: over: command not found \ cat: kill: No such file or directory 17:34:15 i can just talk in one sentence and attention still will be gotton (this is a total gramatic mistake) 17:34:35 but it literally makes my arms hurt 17:34:53 get an ergonomic keyboard 17:35:16 why does it hurt less to hit 'enter' more? 17:35:22 im a gamer, ergonomics is what i need partly, so im going to get a new keyboard soon 17:35:42 that's the first time i've heard someone describe themself as a gamer 17:35:50 im not a doctor when it comes to muscles 17:35:55 buy the kinesis contoured, it's amazincg 17:36:02 `learn gotton is a quantum of attention. Solain drives the packet. 17:36:07 I knew that. 17:36:09 im buying the blackwidow 2013 17:36:10 `addquote im not a doctor when it comes to muscles 17:36:13 1098) im not a doctor when it comes to muscles 17:36:23 wat? 17:36:23 `pastequotes 17:36:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18855 17:36:47 BlackWIDOW ULTRA BigFoot DOMINATOR MurderKill XXXTREEME Gamer Keyboard 17:36:51 with MILITARY GRADE CAPACITORS 17:36:54 TO THE MAXX 17:37:07 yay im on the page 17:37:09 Then again, I have a Das Keyboard 17:37:11 So yay 17:37:12 hey, people addquoted me in my absence! I... not quite resent that. in fact, I feel particularly flattered :) 17:37:34 i'm still not in `pastequotes 17:37:36 did they make the build quality on das keyboards not awful yet? 17:37:53 Mine is fine 17:38:11 <+kmc> BlackWIDOW ULTRA BigFoot''''' bigfoot? 17:38:13 damnit Gregor send a charset UTF-8 header already 17:38:15 Got the Ultimate version with MX Brown switched 17:38:20 s/d/s/g 17:39:19 nooodl: no idea why. you should have a sudden insanity surge à la fungot, mixed with elliottisms and say something that involves pineapples and a random nordic country. 17:39:19 boily: perhaps, if more and more dwarfs were coming to work much better :) draw'd it off, it wasn't. holy cow, i never claimed that the victim) subject:re: `which fnord echo 17:39:38 i didnt really understand the page of 17:39:47 (shit) 17:40:25 i didnt really understand the page of "build yourself a scheme in 48 hr", the first page says it teaches haskell 17:41:04 Do you want to teach you a Haskell instead? 17:41:14 `quote 1064 17:41:16 1064) I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time 17:41:26 no i do not 17:41:45 `? `? 17:41:47 ​`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:41:47 | 17:41:47 o/`¯º 17:41:56 SOLAIN CANT COMPILE, ERROR ERROR 17:42:16 kmc, ? 17:42:56 `quote 1037 17:42:57 1037) can sex be liberated from the von neumann position 17:42:58 i do not understand what is going on here, i want to learn how to build an interepter, is haskell part of it? 17:43:04 ~duck haskell 17:43:05 Haskell - A lazy purely functional language largely derived from Miranda but with several extensions. 17:43:09 "several" 17:43:24 it is a language, i dont want to build my interepter in haskell 17:43:27 s/several/extensive/g 17:43:38 Solain: what language do you want to use 17:43:38 -!- conehead_ has joined. 17:43:42 C 17:43:44 s/extensive/a fungotload of/g 17:43:44 boily: if it's ( syntactically) long, and brainfuck command keys. its a terrorst training video we better get gwb on to another crash 17:44:08 Solain: You could start by making an interpreter of a known language 17:44:12 To get the hang of it 17:44:19 Then make your own esolang and do it again ^^ 17:44:31 that clever, where do i start? 17:44:43 Solain: What does an interpreter do? 17:44:50 compile the code 17:45:00 flex the code then bison it up 17:45:02 once you reach metacircularity, you'll know you'll have started. 17:45:06 ++quintopia 17:45:23 another thing, how do you msg people in irc? 17:45:34 Solain: A compiler compiles, an interpreter interprets 17:45:50 /part #esolang username msg 17:45:58 /part #esoteric username msg 17:45:59 Sorry 17:46:22 http://www.icemanind.com/ might help Solain 17:46:30 -!- Solain has left ("Roujo test"). 17:46:37 holy. fungot. 17:46:37 boily: am i that much bad. take up, boy; open't. so, now go with, do miscarrie, thou had'st bin resolute pompey 17:46:42 "virtual machine" is a way of obfuscating "interpreter" 17:46:51 He's dead, Jim 17:46:59 so am i 17:47:01 * quintopia waves 17:47:05 Aren't we all 17:47:06 * Roujo sighs 17:47:09 -!- Solain has joined. 17:47:10 «ce n'est, qu'un au revoir, mon cher... ♪♪♪» 17:47:13 'sup, Solain 17:47:14 <3 17:47:30 why did you msg command got me out of the room and into a load of text 17:47:41 i need to sign right? 17:48:22 To sign? 17:48:25 anyway (sorry for the /n), can you send the link again? i got out of the room before i opend it 17:48:36 <+quintopia> http://www.icemanind.com/ might help Solain 17:48:44 <+quintopia> "virtual machine" is a way of obfuscating "interpreter" 17:50:25 -!- conehead_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:50:32 -!- coneehad has joined. 17:51:32 -!- coneehad has changed nick to conehead. 17:51:38 inter just runs the code 17:52:07 is Solain someone's brother 17:52:16 dont think so 17:52:44 Not as far as we know 17:52:52 Though I guess it can be arranged 17:53:03 you sick bastard 17:53:14 Phantom_Hoover: Roujo and I are brother experts. 17:53:23 brothers in expertise 17:53:26 Roujo: we should start a consulting cabinet for brotherly needs. 17:54:05 are you bilogical brothers or social bros? 17:54:41 boily, I'm holding my brother's college ID hostage 17:54:50 Can you give me advice how to proceed? 17:54:55 Solain: neither. that's too commonplace and plebeian a concept of brotherhood. nothing less than multiple bro-levels of enterprisey indirection. 17:55:15 Taneb: Is there a REASON you're doing this? 17:55:18 Very canadiany indeed 17:55:19 thats like, quadrants of brotherhood? 17:55:21 Taneb: go to bars. dispatch rubber ducks. 17:55:22 right? 17:55:23 `quote 1006 17:55:25 1006) Do you have a girlfriend, fungot? ThatOtherPerson: there's two. 17:55:31 Well crap 17:55:38 Gregor, he stole one of my tee-shirts 17:55:46 THAT I WAS GOING TO USE FOR COSPLAY 17:55:50 Solain, "quadrants"? 17:55:56 oh shoot 17:56:00 just duck it 17:56:05 Taneb: your brother is a meanie. you just don't do that. 17:56:06 ~duck it 17:56:06 Used to refer to that one previously mentioned. 17:56:12 That's nice 17:56:17 if yoy have doubt, just duck it! 17:56:19 *you 17:56:22 ~duck yoy 17:56:23 The Yoy people are an ethnic group in Southeast Asia. 17:56:28 o_0 17:56:32 told ya 17:56:34 Roujo: darn. you ninjaoyed me. 17:56:47 * Roujo does the Crane Stance, Brother Variant 17:56:57 ~duck quadrants 17:56:57 quadrant definition: an instrument for measuring altitudes consisting commonly of a graduated arc of 90 degrees with an index or vernier and usually having a plumb line or spirit level for fixing the vertical or horizontal direction. 17:57:11 did i type it wrong 17:57:15 fungot, do you have a brother 17:57:15 Phantom_Hoover: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there? it's clearly not necessary to achieve the planned than fnord since no sign, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, 17:57:17 I think I played that game. Got stuck in the spirit level, though. 17:57:50 (sorry for spam) 17:58:00 having an ouya is bad for your wallet. the games are cheap, so you pop them like a tube of pringles and the fun can't stop. 17:58:03 ~duck quadrants 17:58:03 quadrant definition: an instrument for measuring altitudes consisting commonly of a graduated arc of 90 degrees with an index or vernier and usually having a plumb line or spirit level for fixing the vertical or horizontal direction. 17:58:06 yes 17:58:24 (which by itself is perfectly fine, but I'd prefer to leave my wallet intact in the process.) 17:58:36 boily: Yeah, I should finally get mine soon 17:58:42 Well, soon-ish anyway 17:59:22 brb 17:59:24 boily, i'm tempted to be all like 'oh i heard it was shit' but even i'm getting annoyed with myself by now 17:59:45 `? shit 17:59:47 shit? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:59:47 | 17:59:47 o/`¯º 17:59:58 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:59:59 | 17:59:59 o/`¯º 18:00:00 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:00:01 | | 18:00:01 º¯`\o o/`¯º 18:00:05 IT'S A PARTY 18:00:23 Phantom_Hoover: it works well. the games are either retro, completely addictive, hilarious, or all of that at the same time. 18:00:46 i swear this channel's more bots than people these days 18:00:55 fizzie, please graph this trend 18:00:56 myndzi is a bot. 18:01:04 Aren't we all; 18:01:12 *drums* 18:01:18 myndzi's a hybrid, have we not been over this 18:01:31 oh, right. sorry, my mem's faulty here. 18:01:45 `? myndzi 18:01:48 myndzi keeps us all on our feet 18:01:51 * boily sticks a drumstick in Solain's ear and wiggle it a little 18:02:26 dude 18:02:34 im try to learn how to build a VM here 18:02:47 and you are sticking sticks in my ear (thus the /n) 18:02:51 #import "vm.h" 18:02:57 cheater 18:02:57 Wait 18:03:01 #include "vm.h" 18:03:07 h4x00r 18:03:08 I got my languages mixed up there 18:03:21 *wiggle* *wiggle* *wiggle* :D 18:03:35 btw, roujo, the link you sent? it contains a lot of assmebly 18:03:47 Solain: That was quintopia 18:04:01 Also, the point still stands that you can write an interpreter in any language 18:04:03 really? 18:04:15 i can, but i dont know how 18:04:30 Picking ASM probably isn't the best idea ever 18:04:36 Unless you're really good with ASM already 18:04:41 i can also shoot light bolts from my head, but whats the point if i dont know how right? 18:05:08 and i suck with asm, never understood it, never will 18:05:14 good thing the drumstick is made of wood. wouldn't wand myself getting electrocuted here. 18:05:22 Solain: Then don't do it with ASM 18:05:30 Do it in C, since you seem to like that 18:05:30 I DONT WANT TO 18:05:57 but i dont know how, i didnt find any type of link in google or tut or guide 18:05:59 or anything 18:06:06 Think about what it's supposed to do 18:06:16 Define what it should do, and start from taht 18:06:18 that* 18:06:32 boily, my tee-shirt has been returned 18:06:40 Thus I have returned his college ID card 18:06:43 Taneb: have you kept the ID as collateral? 18:06:46 oh. 18:07:00 WAIT I HAVE AN C LEARNING BOOK WHICH CONTAINS A WHOLCE CHAPTER DEDICATED TO THIS 18:07:11 hi 18:07:12 ~duck dielectric constant of a drumstick 18:07:12 --- No relevant information 18:07:21 im so dumb 18:07:24 so so dumb 18:07:50 `run echo Caps Lock is cruise control for cool > "wisdom/caps lock" 18:07:54 No output. 18:08:10 only caps can demonstrate my anger 18:08:13 Solain: actual advice: start with Python. it is sane, and will help you build up interpreters in no time. 18:08:22 i learnd python 18:08:29 it was fun 18:08:36 Solain, I have a C learning book which has obfuscation in the introduction 18:08:37 Solain: then you're free to go. all my public interps. are in python or ruby. 18:09:35 taneb, didnt catch the point; boily, i think you are right 18:09:36 thx 18:09:50 Solain, there really wasn't a point, I'm afraid 18:10:30 Roujo: I feel Chinese is even better at cruising than caps. you get full height double width chars! 18:10:36 (e.g. 我種鱸魚鱸魚amanchée錯了!) 18:10:56 taneb: well P: 18:11:03 boily: Désolé, mais c'est du chinois pour moi =/ 18:11:23 hook, line, sinker... I really walked into that one, eh? 18:12:43 whats like the averge age range of active users in this irc? im asking this because im feel like im the youngest one here 18:13:08 I remember the good old days when I was the youngest person here 18:13:13 boily: That you did. Mostly the line part, though. The rest just follows your heart~~ 18:13:19 except they were bad rather than good 18:13:22 elliott: That can be arranged in one of many ways 18:13:52 elliott: darn that asiekierka 18:13:59 I think JesseH was the youngest. 18:14:13 why do you say? :) 18:14:19 @tell asiekierka who are you? how do you appröximate? weigh weigh pon pon pon? 18:14:19 Consider it noted. 18:14:45 That's going to be a wat moment. I hope I'm around. 18:14:56 Solain, how old actually are you 18:15:06 mnoqy: I reckon so, but you know the legendary bad state my memory is in. 18:15:16 by birthdays or years 18:15:34 either 18:15:45 15 birthdays, 16 years 18:16:25 not so bad; about a sixth of a cpressey. 18:16:32 cpressey? 18:16:37 s/sixth/third/ 18:16:43 `? cpressey 18:16:45 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. 18:17:29 `? cpressey 18:17:31 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. 18:17:41 you have quite a collection of bots here 18:17:56 i was serious about the 'more bots than people' part 18:18:11 i wasnt sure if you were joking 18:18:18 now i know 18:18:28 He knows 18:18:37 he has won half the battle. 18:18:41 get your stick out of my ear 18:18:46 no 18:18:48 out 18:19:34 s/stick/non-euclidian apparatus/g 18:20:11 Solain: nah. hth. 18:20:24 hth? 18:20:28 ~duck hth 18:20:28 --- No relevant information 18:20:33 Solain: ask oerjan :D 18:20:38 how 18:20:44 tell me the robotic ways 18:21:37 it's 'happy to help'; please stop using ~duck as a first line of inquiry 18:21:42 Solain: fetch an existing library. tweak what you want. expand. encompass. assimilate. 18:21:49 Wasn't it "hope that helps"? 18:21:56 Phantom_Hoover: what have you got against my fine bot? :p 18:22:06 Roujo: no, it's help from a hairy toe. 18:22:25 Roujo may in fact be right 18:22:39 ~metar LLBG 18:22:40 LLBG 031820Z 28005KT 9999 FEW027 28/21 Q1010 NOSIG 18:22:52 `? hth 18:22:54 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 18:23:08 That sounds like something you'd put in 18:23:16 I object, your hönor 18:23:33 if not duck, where do i get my first line of help from? hackego? you got to have a robot for that if you have so many robots 18:23:38 it's "hope this helps" 18:23:46 We don't have a robot for love 18:23:52 sure you do 18:23:59 Solain, your web browser 18:24:14 yes? what with it? 18:25:01 -_- 18:25:11 kidding 18:25:49 anyway, any dude who programmed with python, what version of python is better: 2.7 or 3? i had arguments about this and alot 18:26:30 why do you only want to hear from dudes 18:27:07 dudits are also good 18:27:15 "dude" is all encompassing 18:27:19 even pets and flowers are dudes 18:27:27 Especially flowers 18:28:09 I want to buy a cactus for our next dand session. 18:28:13 you want me to change so much, in the end i will only say "hello im dave" and become one of your robots 18:28:18 Solain: Python 3 is better in prinicple, but doesn't have the library support etc. just yet 18:28:27 thx kmc 18:28:59 i still don't actually know any differences between the two beyond print being different 18:29:17 they unfucked the Unicode support a bit 18:29:24 mostly by renaming 'str' to 'bytes' and 'unicode' to 'str' 18:29:49 but also by being more strict about mixing them 18:30:31 but as you used, libary support is problematic 18:30:36 so 18:30:37 also a lot of stuff has changed to return iterators, so you don't need xrange or .iteritems() etc. 18:31:13 my contract states right here that I have to tell you the best version of python is called haskell 2010 18:31:32 btw, now that lenses have the haskelling sphere's attention, what about iteratees and such? 18:37:09 i always found 64 bit installations of any kind be problamtic to my computer, doest matter what kind of program the prgram is, most of the if i will download a 64 bit installation of it i will have problems, 32 bit doesnt have them 18:37:24 i feel cursed 18:37:43 Is your OS 32-bit? Because that would make things weird. 18:37:46 i curse thee 18:38:02 ofcourse it is 64 bit 18:38:26 i have 8 ram of memory in pc 18:38:54 8 *whole* Rams? 18:39:01 I prefer goat memory. I feel it's more reliable, like a vinyl over a CD. 18:39:11 boily: Dodging the question 18:39:19 whole? dual channel, 2 cards its 4 18:39:19 `addquote I prefer goat memory. I feel it's more reliable, like a vinyl over a CD. 18:39:23 1099) I prefer goat memory. I feel it's more reliable, like a vinyl over a CD. 18:40:09 boily: So I take it you prefer the goat's analog feel? 18:40:21 drunken goats again? 18:40:39 http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/174/2/b/goat_meme_by_existtraiesc-d6ab6ga.jpg 18:40:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:40:57 let's not go there 18:41:14 why? feel the power almighty of the drunken goat 18:43:01 * boily straps Solain with Christmas lights that strobe arhythmic patterns (and an Arduino to power them) 18:43:28 you actually know what an arduino is? 18:43:38 woohoo 18:43:44 Look at the channel 18:43:45 Now back to me 18:44:00 how this is chat 18:44:10 No, this is god 18:44:12 Wait 18:44:13 Dog 18:44:24 Anyway, yeah, people here are pretty tech-savvy 18:44:34 We're talking about people who make esolangs *for fun* 18:45:02 People to which a Turing Tarpit is both defined and a possible goal 18:45:27 inspiring words 18:45:29 So yes, people will probably know about Arduino, and they'll probably know a thing or two about robots.txt 18:46:12 The Internet is a wonderful thing. You meet people of all types, with all kinds of background 18:46:23 A carp a day, they said. Well, they were right. 18:47:14 i got used to hangout with people that are only in one tech group or another, so getting to know people who a moderate amount a some groups quite alot of these people at once is new to me 18:47:37 So it goes 18:48:20 for example, a dude who both programs and both is an (i dont know th word in english) *works with elctric circuits* is quite unsusual to me 18:48:37 quite it is two totally different genres from my point of view 18:48:43 It's mostly that there's a lot of overlap here 18:48:50 overlap? 18:49:12 As individuals, we don't know everything. As a channel, we do. 18:49:56 as a computer engineer, I overlap over myself :D 18:50:09 you can never know everything, because if you dont know something than how you dont know that you dont know it 18:50:20 think about it 18:50:25 I try not to 18:50:30 hehehehehe 18:50:37 But you can know that you don't know something 18:50:55 I know that I don't know how to cook squid 18:51:07 but you know what cooking and squid is 18:51:10 What's your point? 18:51:14 Well yeah 18:51:16 think outside the box 18:51:21 There is no box 18:51:29 there is pumpkin 18:51:35 Glory to the Wise 18:51:43 Glory to the hypnotoad 18:52:33 * boily wires up 30 amperes on Solain's lights... 18:52:44 how do type like that 18:52:48 Fnord to the fungot 18:52:48 olsner: i would like to join? the hell 18:53:00 whta? 18:53:30 how much of you are robots? 18:53:36 50%? 18:54:03 `? lots 18:54:05 lots? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:54:05 | 18:54:05 o/`¯º 18:54:11 `? `? lots 18:54:13 ​`? lots? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:54:13 | 18:54:13 o/`¯º 18:54:29 wow 18:54:41 You can make people dance, too 18:54:44 \m/ 18:54:46 Wait 18:54:50 What was it again? 18:54:57 \m/ \m/ 18:55:00 i want ot know how to type like you 18:55:00 Welp 18:55:03 `celebrate 18:55:04 that would be fun 18:55:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: celebrate: not found 18:55:19 ^celebrate 18:55:19 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 18:55:19 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 18:55:19 /< c.c >\ /| | | >\ c.c |\ | /| |/´\ c.c /| 18:55:19 (_|¯'\ /'\ 18:55:20 |_) (_| |_) 18:55:30 There we go. Thanks, olsner 18:55:36 `thanks olsner 18:55:37 Thanks, olsner. Tholsner. 18:55:48 Solain: Just use your keyboard to type, it works pretty well so far. 18:55:53 `thanks thanks 18:55:55 Thanks, thanks. Thanks. 18:55:56 Solain: learn the Way of the IRC. everything is a /part of the great whole. 18:55:56 hahahaha 18:56:30 ./gimme didnt work, so didnt /su nor /help or /man 18:57:12 * boily switches on the lights from far away, wearing a pair of tempered glass goggles 18:57:14 i want my cookiez, my lovely irc flavuored cookiez 18:57:44 switch your lightz how much you want, im not in than anymore, your beloved teddy bear is 18:58:01 hehe hihi hoho 18:58:24 Yup, he's gone mad 18:58:28 boily: Is that a new record? 18:58:31 -!- dessos has joined. 18:58:45 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:58:55 hello dessos 18:59:08 Roujo: I guess so. from my quite sane standpoint, I concur. 18:59:17 im not mad 18:59:36 you wanted to melt my skin off with christmas lights, if someone is mad it is you! 19:00:17 and to top off the crime with sin, you added an arduino to the mix 19:01:18 Of course he did 19:01:33 It's no fun if you can't overclock the PCB, innit? 19:03:01 hmm, why does "coördinate" only parse as a noun and not as a verb for me? 19:03:09 * Solain brakes the arduino into small tiny tiny tiny tiny pieces 19:03:13 Because it's a noun? 19:03:25 no, coordinate is also a verb 19:03:28 Solain: There you go. Lv2 in IRCing now. Keep it up. 19:03:34 e.g. coordinating people 19:03:35 Sure, but coördinate isn't. 19:04:17 it's... uhm... poëtic liberty applied to a wonderful word that scans so well. so it's a verbal noun, I say. 19:04:42 Vrbng4ever 19:05:38 at least it's not an い-adjective. I never quite got over the fact that you have to conjugate the adjective, not the verb. 19:05:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:05:53 who's the resident diaeresologist/lexicographer? 19:06:00 @Override 19:06:00 Unknown command, try @list 19:06:00 public void onUpgrade(SQLiteDatabase arg0, int arg1, int arg2) { 19:06:00 // Useless, as there is only One True Version of the Database so far 19:06:00 } 19:06:10 I like this. 19:06:12 good argument naming too 19:06:23 Generated code =P 19:06:28 olsner: I think it's me, even if my views are considered unorthodox by some of this channel's regulars. 19:06:38 hmm, but you're french? 19:06:50 He is 19:06:59 olsner: Canadian. there's a big nuance. 19:07:35 French Canadian. So yeah 19:07:45 olsner: public void onUpgrade(SQLiteDatabase database, int fromVersion, int toVersion) 19:07:50 Fixed it for you =P 19:08:22 Roujo: ouais bon, on s'ostinera pas sur des détails sémantiques de même, là là... 19:08:41 יהיה לכם נוח אם אני אדבר בעברית? אה? 19:08:46 olsner: so, did you have a diæ̈retic question? 19:09:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:09:34 Solain: I catch the 'hi hi' at the end, but the rest stumps me. I guess that's also a 'ha?', but I'm not sure. 19:11:09 boily: yes, the coördinate (n) vs coördinate (v) thing 19:11:26 both should work if either works, right? 19:11:34 olsner: it is so. 19:12:13 boily: excellent 19:12:15 Solain: you can hebrew, しかし僕は日本語で話しているwww^^ 19:13:05 speaking of words, I wonder who came up with moving the stress aroudn in excellent and excel 19:15:08 ain't the first “e” stressed? 19:15:20 "Stressed" 19:15:22 This checks out 19:16:27 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:17:16 dictionary.com gives them as ik-*sel* and *ek*-suh-luhnt 19:18:36 Then again, it says "legit" is "luh-*git*", so meh 19:18:45 you what is the main problem living in israel? no good books in hebrew nor english 19:18:57 Learn Japanese then 19:18:58 they dont import any kind of books relating to computers 19:19:03 Roujo: that is how it's said 19:19:07 [22:18] they dont import any kind of books relating to computers 19:19:13 any kind 19:19:17 Did you just quote yourself? 19:19:21 yes 19:19:24 i did 19:20:16 i just clarified myself in this situation in praticular 19:20:58 olsner: In non-Canadia, mayhaps 19:23:09 weird, how do canadians say legit then? 19:24:03 luh-*git* 19:24:16 I just didn't say it that way for the longest time 19:24:31 Didn't help that I never heard it out lound until about 3 months ago 19:24:35 Wait 19:24:39 That was about a year ago 19:24:42 Time flies~~ 19:25:09 oh, with a hard(?) g instead of j? 19:25:38 Nah, the same 19:26:13 It's just that most French-Canadians I know didn't pronounce it right 19:26:27 Until they were exposed to it 19:26:31 Namely my friends and I =P 19:26:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:26:54 I say «légitime». so there. hth. 19:27:34 (otherwise, if I'm forced to say it in English, then *leh*-djit.) 19:27:42 Exactly 19:28:20 I don't understand who says what how anymore 19:30:07 People talk, sounds come out, such is life in the valley 19:31:22 amazing 19:31:35 -!- PixelToast has joined. 19:34:51 olsner: it's easy. people say thing, and they usually understand each other. /se.bɛ̃.sẽp.lə.mɔ̃d.sə.diz.de.za.fäːʀ.pi.da.bi.ʦyd.i.sə.kɔ̃.pʀɛn/ 19:35:31 s/thing/things/ 19:35:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:36:13 `relcome PixelToast 19:36:16 ​PixelToast: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:37:46 boily: Oh god. I got it, but oh god. 19:38:08 boily: phonetically written french is pretty hard to decipher 19:38:32 diz = say, kɔ̃.pʀɛn = understand? plus a bunch of words inbetween? 19:38:40 Roujo: sorry, couldn't resist :D 19:38:56 (especially for «des afaaaèr») 19:39:11 olsner: Pretty much, yeah 19:39:56 impressive, me *pats self* 19:41:05 stop 19:41:07 welcoming 19:41:07 me 19:41:20 PixelToast: oh, you already were `relcommed. my bad. 19:41:51 ive been relcommed 9 times, and WeLcOmEd 4 times, i forget what else 19:42:17 * Fiora looks up and sees that she was pinged about sushi 19:42:19 WeLcOmEd fell out of fashion some time ago, I reckon 19:43:26 Fiora: you have an usb sushi quote somewhere. how does IC sashimi taste like? 19:43:26 did someone metion sushi 19:43:38 boily: I also understood what you said WITH THAT HORRIBLE ACCENT I'm not sure I should be proud of that 19:44:09 `WeLcOmE Roujo 19:44:12 RoUjO: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 19:44:15 Oh god 19:44:18 What have I done 19:44:19 Koen__: mwah ah ah. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH! ^^ 19:45:02 boily: um. IC sashimi? 19:45:04 I know the [ʦ] isn't official anymore, but I was too lazy to tie t and s. 19:45:11 `quote sushi 19:45:13 828) what does it mean for a pencil to be turing complete.... monqy: it's the same concept as USB sushi, really \ 829) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it \ 1049) i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money like cocaine \ 1059) the trou 19:45:13 why is the robot typing like a homestuck character? not to mention a homestuck character who drives the bus 19:45:22 help 19:46:46 I.... don't think I've ever eaten USB sushi -_- 19:46:50 `quote 1059 19:46:51 1059) the trouble with sushi is that it's often made of dead fish 19:46:56 `delquote 1059 19:47:00 ​*poof* the trouble with sushi is that it's often made of dead fish 19:47:17 Fiora: ... do you highlight on 'sushi'? 19:47:49 kmc: someone pinged me 19:47:52 寿司?鮨?すし?スシ? 19:47:57 10:05 <@elliott> Solain: fiora, is that you? :o 19:48:02 * boily sushings Fiora 19:48:08 * Fiora is shushsed 19:48:10 *sushed 19:48:58 Google translates that as "Sushi? Sushi? Sushi? Sushi?" 19:49:12 kmc: I was checking if Fiora was hilited. 19:49:36 She was 19:49:58 the sous chef? she's shushing sushi 19:50:49 that sentence shall be known as the Shachaf Shongue Shwishter. 19:51:50 `? Fiora 19:51:52 Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. 19:52:11 `learn Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi. 19:52:16 I knew that. 19:52:26 -!- conehead has joined. 19:52:58 I'm not good at making sushi -_- 19:53:10 are you good at shushing it 19:53:20 D: 19:53:28 `? 19:53:30 ​? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:53:30 | 19:53:30 o/`¯º 19:53:50 what does that even mean ._. 19:54:01 does sushi tend to talk when you're around 19:54:35 "don't eat me, Fiora! i used to be alive and have fish feelings!" 19:54:36 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go!"). 19:54:37 -!- Roujo has joined. 19:54:39 that's what sushi says to me 19:55:43 I'm eating dead rice and dead avocado and dead seaweed too ;_; 19:55:59 yes, but who ever heard of talking rice 19:56:04 shachaf: why does sushi call you Fiora? 19:56:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:56:22 olsner: not sure. sushi doesn't tend to have eyes 19:56:49 therefore you must smell like Fiora 19:56:58 It's possible! 19:57:33 zzo38: who do you smell like? does vinegared dead fish talk to you? how do you feel at the sight of an USB stack? 19:58:33 I smell like me, I suppose. I don't think anything dead is talking to me. 19:59:03 such boily questions 20:00:02 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go!"). 20:00:05 -!- Roujo has joined. 20:02:23 boily: you will note that he failed to address the third question 20:03:18 talking rice people? this is almost as drunken goats 20:03:25 hey 20:03:30 Koen__: that was subtly recorded and filed as soon as he answered. zzo38 is a very suspicious person already. 20:03:46 * boily SMACKS Solain with a penguin plushie 20:04:05 Suspicious? 20:04:15 * Solain SMACKS boily with a broken hard drive 20:04:31 i dont have plushies 20:04:41 only broken electronics 20:04:59 oh, in english you've got only one word for "suspicious" and "suspicious", right? 20:05:07 that's confusing 20:05:32 koen, are you by any chance from israel? 20:05:33 Koen__: «suspicieux», I meant to say. 20:05:41 Yes, I know the English can have some confusing words (so can other languages, though) 20:05:54 boily: is that the one as in likely to suspect other people? or the other one? 20:06:55 boily: I'm pretty sure you meant "suspect" 20:07:01 boily: Hi 20:07:33 Suspect? 20:07:36 Koen__: I can't confirm or deny that assertion. 20:07:45 Roujo: ail. 20:08:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:08:18 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:09:35 boily: I understand 20:11:17 `pastequotes 20:11:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19463 20:14:14 why am i there, i still cant comprehend what is so funny abot what i said 20:14:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:14:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:14:54 `quote solain 20:14:55 1097) im not a doctor when it comes to muscles 20:15:30 a clear side splitter, that 20:15:47 side splitter? 20:15:48 i think i finally understood what is funny, i got confused between one profession and another 20:15:57 How do you mean I am "a very suspicious person already"? Do you have a clarification? 20:17:09 I'm afraid he wouldn't clarify or obfuscate that assertion 20:17:24 `quote 158 20:17:25 158) HOT SEXY SEX BITS 20:17:33 olsner: above statement may contain traces of sarcasm 20:18:44 i note that google's top suggestion for "may contain t" is "may contain traces of human flesh" 20:19:03 (for me, anyhow. maybe norwegians are just particularly gruesome.) 20:19:04 ?messages-loud 20:19:04 boily said 5h 25m 48s ago: what is a level? 20:19:13 I think that's based on your search history oerjan 20:19:19 boily: In what context do you mean a level? 20:19:43 Koen__: O ... KAY ... SORRY, I MAY HAVE TO KILL YOU ALL NOW 20:19:43 zzo38: we were wondering why you always refered to level20.tex. 20:20:04 oerjan: no problem with that. you'll have to visit Canada! 20:20:12 oerjan: that might just make your search history more gruesome 20:20:22 olsner: there is that. 20:20:23 boily: It is the starting experience level of this game. 20:20:45 (Due to level adjustment, our actual levels are lower than twenty) 20:20:56 i think i finally understood what is funny, i got confused between one profession and another 20:21:06 doctors are meant to know about muscles... 20:21:32 Koen__: i thought it was only that personalized if you had a google account? 20:21:36 zzo38: oh. that clarifies many obscure corners of the thing. 20:21:55 boily: OK. What obscure corners do you mean, specifically? 20:22:05 doctors are meant to know about muscles... ;;;;; i wish i could explain myself in english, rather than hebrew 20:22:10 anyway 20:22:13 and otherwise was location based. wait, does that mean there's a serial killer nearby. 20:22:33 i found some games coded on brainfuck, want links anyone? 20:22:46 Solain: Are they others than the one I already found? 20:23:10 * oerjan knows only of lost kingdom 20:23:37 oerjan: pretty sure they track some stuff to a cookie even if you don't have an account, though not sure how detailed 20:24:41 zzo38: the ones we were discussing about, I guess. I don't know for sure, they were obscure. 20:24:56 (and some conjectures about the le-vel20 cipher.) 20:24:58 which, being perhaps the largest real bf program (although generated from basic) is a common interpreter/compiler damnmybrainismissingwordsagain 20:25:21 boily: It has nothing to do with some cipher; the file "level20.tex" is a Dungeons&Dragons game. 20:25:31 oerjan: thingamabob? whatchamacallit? 20:25:34 (If you read it you should know why it is called that, actually) 20:26:03 zzo38: too logical. 20:26:15 Too logical? 20:26:21 What? 20:26:42 -!- augur has joined. 20:27:03 shachaf: please translate for Solain 20:27:23 yeah 20:27:23 boily: What is being too logical, and what is wrong with too logical? 20:27:31 oerjan: help 20:27:34 translate what 20:27:44 *i have no idea too lolz* 20:27:54 oh 20:28:19 You could post the links (and/or titles of games) if you want to, I suppose 20:28:24 shachaf: anything he doesn't know how to explain in english 20:28:35 zzo38: logic goes counter to my laziness. reading the document would be too straightforward. 20:28:58 we have advanced in technology, nowdays we have google translate for that, thank you for the offer anyway 20:29:04 olsner: no, i don't think those are the word. 20:29:12 boily: O, that's what you mean. Well, too bad, then. It cannot possibly be understood without reading it (I think). 20:29:13 Solain: Phantom_Hoover is saying some nonsense about monoids 20:29:26 oerjan: I've heard it claimed that the bird is the word 20:29:27 Solain: but that only leaves you open to even more hilarious mistakes 20:29:39 what should i make of this? 20:29:47 zzo38: I know I'm losing valuable information here, but tomorrow I'll have begun to think about procrastinating from reading it. 20:29:53 make distclean 20:30:01 no m8 20:30:03 im on windows 20:30:13 boily: What books do you read? 20:31:04 the game names are: "taking over the world" ; "finally taking over the world" ; "the brainfucked lone wolf" ; link: http://fora.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53146 bottom of the page 20:31:21 I know of "taking over the world" ; "finally taking over the world" games 20:31:24 zzo38: still trying to finish the Hyperion Cantos, but I got sidetracked with the Vorkosigan Saga lately. 20:31:30 oerjan: welllllllll hmmmmmm I'm pretty sure the suggestions google provides me with have evolved with what I've been searching for 20:32:01 I don't have a google account, and I flush all sessions / cookies / whatever every time I exit the browser 20:32:04 btw oerjan, what kind of mistakes? the kind of dr,muscles? 20:32:54 boily: O, then read mine afterward. 20:33:02 zzo38: I'll copy it to my kobo. 20:33:19 Solain: MAYBE 20:33:28 Will kobo load this file? You can try, I suppose. 20:33:41 I don't know how kobo works so I wouldn't know 20:33:43 oerjan IM LEARNING BILOGY AT SCHOOL, SO NAH 20:34:00 the theory of biles 20:34:09 Uncle Muscles Hour 20:34:11 oerjan cross-cultural mistakes CAN and will happen 20:34:26 and always 20:34:35 grammar mistakes 20:34:52 (sorry for /n) 20:34:56 oerjan: like in humoral medicine? 20:34:56 zzo38: I'm just going to pdflatex it, then copy it over through calibre. 20:35:09 olsner: probably 20:36:22 apparently the four humors are black bile, yellow bile, phlegm and blood 20:36:44 boily: I don't think that will work. I also don't know what calibre is. If you need PDF, try downloading "dungeonsrecording.tex" as well, run "tex level20", answer the question, and then DVI->PDF. (Maybe pdftex will work too, but that isn't guaranteed to work with anything other than the one true TeX.) 20:37:18 zzo38: oh hm. well. in that case, no kobo. 20:37:23 (You can also download the .DVI which is already compiled) 20:37:34 Solain: well that's ok, as long as you are prepared for the resulting puns. 20:37:35 (calibre is an e-reader library management software.) 20:37:46 zzo38: I think I'll go with the dvi. 20:38:01 If you have "pdflatex" then you probably have "tex" installed too; it comes standard with all TeX installations. 20:38:54 I have the original Pure TeX installed, but I tend to stay away from it. it scares me. 20:38:56 echo 20:39:04 boily: Why does it scare you? 20:39:04 where did my msg go? 20:39:06 ^echo ^echo 20:39:06 ^echo ^echo 20:39:18 you want me to type ping? test? 20:39:26 i need to test lag somehow 20:39:29 Solain: hearing you loud and clear 20:40:01 im not going to ping at the literal way 20:40:05 geeks 20:40:16 Solain: i pinged you. no autoresponse, though. 20:40:35 DR OM SOLAIN UR 559 KN 20:41:01 boily: did poor Solain get trapped in ~metar ? 20:42:10 oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosigns_for_Morse_code 20:44:01 boily: the page doesn't seem to provide enough information to decode your message 20:44:46 ~metar boily 20:44:47 --- Station not found! 20:47:29 olsner: I told him that I receive him correctly, clear and loud. 20:47:41 ~metar CYUL 20:47:41 CYUL 032000Z 23016KT 30SM FEW030TCU BKN065 22/14 A2970 RMK TCU2SC5 SLP057 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 20:47:51 oh, TCU again tonight! it's gonna be fun! 20:48:10 What is TCU? 20:48:24 boily: how did you end up learning about metar? 20:49:26 zzo38: towering cumulus. usually an indicator of incoming thunderstorms ☺ 20:49:41 OK 20:49:43 olsner: eeeeeh... probably one of many wikiwalks. 20:54:46 -!- Solain has left. 20:56:54 -!- Solain has joined. 20:57:10 oh goody 20:57:17 no command typing 20:57:25 thx oerjan 21:01:20 -!- Solain has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:03:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:03:43 General Question of Public Interest: who is cakeprophet? 21:04:23 some sort of (past?) esoteric regular 21:04:39 `quote cakeprophet 21:04:40 112) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 113) CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a long worm can be 21:05:13 olsner: oic. tdh. 21:05:30 `? cakeprophet 21:05:32 ​:> 21:05:35 not entirely past, but not here very often, and by a different nick (not here right now.) 21:05:49 well, not _talking_ very often, anyway. 21:07:01 oerjan: you mean some of the idlers is him in disguise? 21:07:17 boily: yes. 21:10:39 although not at the moment, and i cannot quite remember when he was here last. 21:10:55 `seen kallisti 21:11:00 2013-08-05 23:26:00: good times. 21:11:17 `seen olsner 21:11:21 2013-09-03 21:11:17: `seen olsner 21:11:25 elliott: i was trying not to mention his nick, not that it is particularly secret. 21:11:26 it works 21:11:28 `seen ais523 21:11:32 2013-08-31 19:31:49: Happy Australian Mailman Mailing List Reminders Day! 21:11:45 `thanks elliott 21:11:46 Thanks, elliott. Thelliott. 21:12:36 `thanks `thanks 21:12:38 Thanks, `thanks. Thanks. 21:12:55 I found another way to make LaTeX choke: ◇. 21:13:19 REVERSE ASPHYXIATION SYMBOL 21:15:34 `quote \emph{Bike is from Luxembourg.}\footnote{Note that Bike's eyes in quote 1018 21:19:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:19:03 -!- glogbot has joined. 21:19:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:19:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 21:19:08 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:19:09 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:19:12 that doesn't prevent blaming boily 21:19:19 lets see if it happens again... 21:19:19 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:19:20 huzzah! 21:19:24 `quote \emph{Bike is from Luxembourg.}\footnote{Note that Bike's eyes in quote 1018 21:19:31 No output. 21:19:31 FOR SCIENCE 21:19:35 hm. 21:19:39 `quote 117) cpressey: I have actually done a waterfall-model project that almost worked That's where you have a flexible kayak that bobs and weaves between the rocks as it plummets off the cliff 21:19:40 now remove it and input the real quote 21:19:40 grep: unmatched parentheses 21:19:54 oooooh, unsanitized grep input! 21:20:15 (as you can see, I'm processing the quote db for inclusion in the wisdom.) 21:21:23 boily: the numbers are not part of the quote. 21:21:38 (thus the numbering can change btw) 21:21:47 oh bummer. 21:22:40 time to vim macro the fungot out of those quotes... (except quotes with fungot. he's kinda important for those one.) 21:22:40 boily:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 21:22:43 `quote bike is from 21:22:45 No output. 21:22:58 `? bike 21:23:00 Bike is from Luxembourg. 21:23:03 boily: was that an expletive fungot? 21:23:03 olsner: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going fast and such an apparently non-standard format is being dimensioned by assigning dimensions to them; and sets. maybe thats what them meant by experimental selected so it probably no longer the wand the better part made mercie, i should think at least, that is expressions which have not been able to 21:24:27 hitting every stupid person: a mindless game. 21:25:16 that, and fast people are being dimensioned by assigning dimensions to them 21:25:18 olsner: I think fizzie partially tolerates that practice. 21:25:25 does fungot? 21:25:25 olsner: c has an ignore restarter, restart/ ignore do? the symbols, pairs, procedures, and so am i just being anal here or am i misunderstanding how these were the people skills of a plane 21:25:57 fungot seems to be a bit fixated on this asshole thing 21:25:57 Bike: is. absorb it on my door, which was just perceptibly fnord and this yields nothing itself; it keeps being removed, the queen. i see no sense 21:26:41 * boily pokes fungot with an auricular drumstick 21:26:41 boily: it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave? fnord 06:22, 29, no. 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 1(::**) ...bad insn! 21:30:08 auricular drumstick? 21:31:20 olsner: the same one that went into solain's ear. 21:31:42 I missed that, I think 21:33:37 that... 21:33:43 `quote but at what cost 21:33:45 862) i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! 21:33:55 ... quote is causing me some problems. 21:34:16 problems that will be solved tomorrow. I want sushis. 21:34:19 due to bold or due to );});});? 21:34:28 the latter. bold is easy. 21:34:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: 寿司!). 21:34:43 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:34:46 ... but putting }s in text is hard? 21:34:52 loltex 21:38:53 `slist phonecall 21:38:55 slist phonecall: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 21:39:21 Mindfang~ 21:41:53 oerjan: did you see the olist 21:43:35 Fiora, help I don't like where it is going 21:43:53 I very very much like where this is going :3 21:44:09 shachaf: yes that's as far as i've got logreading yet 21:48:40 Taneb, Fiora, oerjan: I like where this is going! 21:49:08 shachaf, but Aranea is being evil! 21:49:33 huh? 21:49:37 more like tarquin is being evil 21:49:48 yeah, what th hell, tarquin 21:49:51 but that's just what he does 21:50:22 he just, like, killed his own son, man 21:50:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:50:30 (spoilers hth) 21:50:43 :o 21:51:05 shachaf: apparently you can't write a destructor for an enum, either 21:51:49 kmc: ?? 21:52:03 why should an enum be treated differently from a struct in that regard 21:53:08 shachaf, but Aranea is plotting to destroy an entire universe to prevent the creation of one person! 21:53:38 Well, less "destroy" and more "render infertile" 21:53:46 shachaf: beats me 21:53:47 Aranea is plotting to neuter an entire universe! 21:54:28 "an" entire universe?? 21:54:52 Why do you expect that to even work? It won't prevent the creation of a person if it is the universe which is being destroyed. 21:54:53 shachaf, it's homestuck. 21:55:03 imo, zzo should destroy the universe. 21:55:06 imo it's not a universe if there's more than one 21:55:07 there's at least three universes 21:55:13 checkmate 21:55:23 a tetraverse 21:55:45 a semiverse 21:55:57 Why should anyone destroy the universe? 21:56:12 Furthermore, *how* should anyone destroy the universe? 21:56:19 i don't know zzo, you're the one doing it. 21:56:35 zzo38: you don't know the answers to those questions? 21:56:37 imo you better get on that 21:57:05 Also, it wouldn't help. 21:58:06 http://qntm.org/destroy 21:58:10 start from here, work up 21:58:55 Night 21:58:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:59:18 I read about destroying the Earth before, but I don't think we should destroy any planets. 22:00:08 what about the planet of the earth-destroyers 22:00:17 Anyways, it isn't desoying the universe. 22:00:56 Don't destroy that planet either. (Hopefully it won't collide with the Earth.) 22:01:11 Destroying the universe is different anyways; you cannot destroy the universe by destroying its parts. 22:08:02 shachaf: hm i wonder if they will have to escape this attack by entering the gate 22:10:45 The universe cannot be created or destroyed. Mathematics is the only thing that is real. 22:10:58 well, destroy mathematics, then 22:10:59 duh 22:11:09 Impossible. Mathematics cannot be destroyed either. 22:11:36 that's not very real of it 22:12:05 zzo38: i think the universe may have a knack for mercilessly ignoring your opinion on how it works 22:12:23 oerjan: I think you are correct, but that doesn't change it. 22:12:38 Because it is also ignoring *your* opinion on how it works. 22:12:59 the universe sounds like kind of a dick 22:13:02 indeed. 22:14:10 No, you are mix up. Universe is the, made of spacetime, and of mathematics; not "kind of a dick" and so on. 22:15:37 i'm just saying, if this dude is ignoring some cool guys like you maybe it has some emotional issues. 22:17:02 What dude? 22:18:38 the universe. 22:19:17 That isn't it. 22:19:22 "the universe" is not a "dude" 22:19:59 not a literal dude. 22:20:03 but, like, a dude dude. 22:20:17 that character in the big lebowski? 22:20:17 What does that mean? 22:20:32 that the universe is a dude but not a dude dude, dude. 22:25:47 `addquote No, you are mix up. Universe is the, made of spacetime, and of mathematics; not "kind of a dick" and so on. 22:25:51 1099) No, you are mix up. Universe is the, made of spacetime, and of mathematics; not "kind of a dick" and so on. 22:25:58 do you think this kind of zzo38-quote is fair game 22:26:08 kmc: I don't know. 22:28:07 `ls wisdom/goat* 22:28:09 ls: cannot access wisdom/goat*: No such file or directory 22:28:15 `run ls wisdom/goat* 22:28:17 wisdom/goats 22:28:32 `run mv wisdom/goat{s,} 22:28:36 No output. 22:28:42 only one wisdom? that is absurd, goats are full of wisdoms 22:28:47 `? goat 22:28:49 Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details. 22:29:07 olsner: there's also a unicode goat wisdom, but you have to know how to get to it 22:30:17 unigoat 22:31:31 `run cd wisdom; ls *s 22:31:33 botlops \ chess \ devious \ doodads \ for further details \ friends \ gonads \ inverness \ lens \ logs \ lystrosaurus \ maths \ monoids \ oceans \ qdbrules \ ssstosis \ the us \ this \ torus \ united states \ welcome.es \ west midlands \ zomgmodules 22:31:50 `? ssstosis 22:31:52 ssstosis is a disease causing false identities 22:32:45 `? oceans 22:32:47 The pacific ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The atlantic ocean is less cool than its giant underwater moutain range. The arctic ocean is cold. The indian ocean is full of typhoons and non-eurocentric shipping. 22:32:56 `? ocean 22:32:58 ocean? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:32:58 | 22:32:59 o/`¯º 22:33:13 `run mv wisdom/ocean{s,} 22:33:17 No output. 22:33:26 `? botlop 22:33:28 botlop? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:33:28 | 22:33:28 º¯`\o 22:33:29 `? botlops 22:33:31 botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release. 22:33:36 `? 🐐 22:33:38 ​🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) 22:33:41 `run mv wisdom/botlop{s,} 22:33:45 -!- PixelToast has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:33:45 No output. 22:34:08 `? friend 22:34:10 friend? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:34:10 | 22:34:11 o/`¯º 22:34:13 `? friends 22:34:15 Friends make graphs together / La la la la 22:34:20 `run mv wisdom/friend{s,} 22:34:24 No output. 22:34:46 `? math 22:34:48 math? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:34:48 | 22:34:48 o/`¯º 22:34:49 `? maths 22:34:51 maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin 22:34:56 good 22:35:03 hm this one might be bad to move. 22:35:25 `? monoid 22:35:27 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 22:35:27 `? monoids 22:35:29 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 22:35:58 `run ? gonad; ? gonads 22:36:00 gonad? ¯\(°_o)/¯ \ gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture. 22:36:00 | 22:36:00 o/`¯º 22:36:10 `? wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 22:36:11 wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute."? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:36:12 | 22:36:12 o/`¯º 22:36:15 `run mv wisdom/gonad{s,} 22:36:19 No output. 22:37:05 `run cd wisdom; ls *s 22:37:07 chess \ devious \ doodads \ for further details \ inverness \ lens \ logs \ lystrosaurus \ maths \ monoids \ qdbrules \ ssstosis \ the us \ this \ torus \ united states \ welcome.es \ west midlands \ zomgmodules 22:37:27 `run ? doodad; ? doodads 22:37:27 -!- jaril has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1). 22:37:29 Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. \ Doodads are just duoids in the category of endofunctors. 22:37:40 `rm wisdom/doodads 22:37:43 No output. 22:38:02 Deduping! 22:38:19 i think the rest are not sensible to move. 22:38:43 `? maths; ? math 22:38:44 maths; ? math? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:38:44 | 22:38:45 o/`¯º 22:38:55 `? maths 22:38:57 maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin 22:39:03 Oh 22:39:05 I see 22:40:30 `? 22:40:32 ​everyone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:40:45 wat 22:40:45 wisdom is full of wonders 22:41:09 `? ?? 22:41:11 `cat bin/? 22:41:11 ​\\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯\\\?\\\ \\\¯\\\\\\\(\\\°\\\_\\\o\\\)\\\/\\\¯ 22:41:12 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\ 22:41:56 `tail bin/? 22:41:58 cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; \ fi 22:42:11 nothing to explain that everyone 22:42:17 does caliphornia have a caliph? 22:42:25 `ord `? 22:42:27 96 63 22:42:37 `ord `? 22:42:38 96 63 22:42:43 `? 22:42:45 ​? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:42:45 | 22:42:45 º¯`\o 22:42:47 `ord `? 22:42:48 96 63 32 22:43:33 `ord 22:43:34 3 22:43:57 oh putty doesn't show end of line space 22:44:48 xchat doesn't seem to either, but I can still enter it even though it disappears as soon as I send 22:45:37 test 22:46:58 oerjan: maybe they'll die instead 22:47:05 hmm, no, it does normal trailing spaces ... only interesting spaces get lost? 22:47:06 oerjan: but entering the gate seems p. likely 22:48:04 `? ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ 22:48:06 ​̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚�͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:48:15 baffling 22:48:44 `? _͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚%CD͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞ 22:48:45 _͙̣̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚%CD͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛͞? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:49:13 makes sense 22:50:36 it can if you want it to 22:51:22 shachaf: i suppose none of them has a standing prophecy that they _will_ survive. (and of course belkar has one that he won't. as did durkon _but_...) 22:52:14 -!- ^v has joined. 22:53:34 i note myndzi didn't even _try_ to work with those. 22:53:46 `? are you alive myndzi 22:53:48 are you alive myndzi ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:53:49 | 22:53:49 o/`¯º 22:53:52 oerjan: well, i'm told elan will have a happy ending 22:53:58 urrrrrrrrrh there's ink dripping all over my screen 22:53:59 oerjan: or did he already get that? 22:54:19 shachaf: that's a question, but elan is not among those attacked. 22:54:42 oerjan: oh, those them 22:54:51 sure 22:54:58 `? the them 22:54:59 Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons. 22:55:11 way to spoil it, oerjan 22:55:45 `? england 22:55:47 England is [EXPUNGED]. 22:56:08 did someone expunge england or just the information about england? 22:56:37 barckets, 22:56:41 so, use 22:56:49 mention distinction HELLO ENTER KEY WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG 22:57:27 `? ⌨ 22:57:29 You are probably using one right now! 22:57:46 Bike: probably placed it too close to - ? 22:58:17 `? sleep 22:58:19 sleep? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:58:20 | 22:58:20 º¯`\o 22:59:02 `learn Sleep is for the weak. 22:59:07 I knew that. 23:01:03 oerjan: i thought sleep was for the week 23:02:04 if you say so. 23:05:26 awesome, in rust you can do '\n'*'\n' and the result is 'd' 23:05:44 is that awesome 23:05:53 it says "awesome" right there man 23:06:11 oh, is it just multiplying the codepoints 23:06:18 can you do that in c? 23:06:38 yup 23:06:40 http://codepad.org/KecUhf9d 23:06:53 `? cpressey 23:06:55 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse. 23:07:12 ah it's gone 23:07:58 `? shachaf 23:08:00 shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. 23:08:16 `? Nepeta Leijon 23:08:17 Nepeta Leijon? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:08:18 | 23:08:18 o/`¯º 23:09:44 `learn Nepeta Leijon is the maintainer of the official Alternian shipping wall. 23:09:49 I knew that. 23:09:55 `? Nepeta Leijon 23:09:56 Nepeta Leijon? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:09:57 | 23:09:57 o/`¯º 23:10:42 `? Nepeta 23:10:44 Nepeta Leijon is the maintainer of the official Alternian shipping wall. 23:12:52 Fiora: does nepeta endoship 23:13:10 maybe that's not the right word 23:13:17 `run mv wisdom/nepeta{,' leijon'} 23:13:18 ? 23:13:21 No output. 23:13:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:14:02 the question was whether she ships herself 23:15:34 http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130316230515/mspaintadventures/images/2/2c/EquiusSeekTheHighblood-NepetaShippingWall.gif see the top left 23:16:37 is that nepeta 23:16:53 maybe endoshipping would be shipping someone with themselves 23:17:23 well, she does that too, in that very same gif, with karkat (around the club symbol) 23:17:30 for someone who hates homestuck you are leading yourself down a line of enquiry which will tell you far more about it than you ever wanted to know 23:17:43 top left is nepeta x karkat (her crush) 23:17:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:17:56 `run echo An ambitiöus new Esolanger who, although underage, is eager to learn. > wisdom/Solain 23:18:14 `run ls wisdom/*olain 23:18:16 wisdom/solain 23:18:19 nepeta leijon is an accomplished master of category theory, it just never comes up in the comic due to time constraints 23:18:21 oh fixed 23:18:24 Is that an innuendomorphism 23:18:40 cat egory 23:19:00 gory cat theory, yes 23:19:35 i guess that does come up in the comic 23:19:40 subtle. 23:21:35 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | grep '[A-Z]' 23:21:37 aah \ ais523 \ america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bc \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bigchar \ bike \ bird \ boily \ bonvenon \ bookwatching \ botlop \ braid theory \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ c \ cakeprophet \ california \ caps lock \ cat \ category \ category-helpdesk \ category theory \ cello \ certainly \ certai 23:21:41 fff 23:21:54 `which grep 23:21:55 ​/bin/grep 23:22:12 since when is grep case insensitive by default :( 23:23:02 `run which grep 23:23:03 ​/bin/grep 23:23:17 `run echo TEST | grep '[a-z]' 23:23:19 TEST 23:23:24 `run echo TEST | grep -i '[a-z]' 23:23:25 TEST 23:24:58 and secondly, how do you turn it off. 23:25:20 `run cd wisdom 23:25:21 No output. 23:25:24 `run pwd 23:25:26 ​/hackenv 23:25:32 `cd wisdom 23:25:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found 23:25:35 `run which grep 23:25:35 Right 23:25:36 ​/bin/grep 23:25:44 `run which which 23:25:45 ​/usr/bin/which 23:25:58 `run cat wisdom/boily wisdom/cat 23:25:59 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. \ Cats are cool, but should be illegal. 23:25:59 Is there some environment variable or shell alias which affects it? 23:26:04 `run alias grep 23:26:06 bash: line 0: alias: grep: not found 23:26:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:26:14 `run cat cat 23:26:15 cat: cat: No such file or directory 23:26:20 `run cat: cat: 23:26:22 bash: cat:: command not found 23:26:24 `run printenv | grep -i grep 23:26:26 No output. 23:26:27 `run for grep in grep fgrep egrep; do echo $grep; echo TEST | $grep '[a-z]'; done 23:26:28 `run cat cat: cat 23:26:29 grep \ TEST \ fgrep \ egrep \ TEST 23:26:29 cat: cat:: No such file or directory \ cat: cat: No such file or directory 23:26:36 Crap 23:27:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:28:24 `printenv 23:28:25 TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ SHLVL=0 \ HOME=/tmp 23:28:40 `run printenv | tail 23:28:41 TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ HOME=/tmp \ SHLVL=1 \ _=/usr/bin/printenv 23:29:40 `run echo TEST | LANG= grep '[a-z]' 23:29:42 No output. 23:29:50 `run echo TEST | LANG=C grep '[a-z]' 23:29:52 No output. 23:30:05 localization is evil :( 23:30:23 I always use "LANG=C" myself when working on UNIX systems 23:33:00 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:33:34 `run echo TEST | grep '[[:lower:]]' 23:33:36 No output. 23:33:38 I checked out a book from the university library about "Fril" which is like prolog with fuzzy sets 23:34:43 zzo38: people asked Gregor to set a different one. 23:35:34 oerjan: Why? I think always "LANG=C" should be used. 23:36:43 export LANG=perl 23:36:43 zzo38: it broke unicode stuff, or something. 23:37:20 `run echo TEST | LANG=en_US.UTF-8 grep '[a-z]' 23:37:21 TEST 23:37:28 If you require Unicode, can "C.UTF-8" work? 23:37:29 ok that's just as broken. 23:37:54 (I still thing "LANG=C" is better, without the Unicode specification) 23:38:06 `run echo ZZZ | grep '[a-z]' 23:38:07 No output. 23:40:36 `ord ZZZ 23:40:37 90 90 90 23:40:46 `ord [a-z] 23:40:48 91 97 45 122 93 23:41:20 oh hm 23:43:06 `run python -c 'print [chr(i) for i in range(255)]' | tr -cd '[a-z]' 23:43:08 ​[xxxxxxxxxtnxbxcrxexfxxxxxxxxxxxaxbxcxdxexf[]abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzxfxxxxxxxxxxxaxbxcxdxexfxxxxxxxxxxxaxbxcxdxexfxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaaxabxacxadxaexafxbxbxbxbxbxbxbxbxbxbxbaxbbxbcxbdxbexbfxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcaxcbxccxcdxcexcfxdxdxdxdxdxdxdxdxdxdxdaxdbxdcxddxdexdfxexexexexexexexexexexeaxebxecxedxeexefxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfaxfbxfcxfdxfe] 23:44:35 i have doubts that's what you wanted 23:45:02 but i am guessing it has to do with it affecting collating order, not actual case insensitivity 23:45:27 `run python -c 'print "".join(chr(i) for i in range(255))' | tr -cd 'a-z' 23:45:28 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 23:46:09 `run python -c 'print "".join(chr(i) for i in range(255))' | grep -o '[a-z]' 23:46:11 Binary file (standard input) matches 23:46:17 `run python -c 'print "".join(chr(i) for i in range(255))' | grep -o '[a-z]' -a 23:46:19 a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:46:51 ok wtf is going on. 23:48:39 `run python -c 'for i in range(255): print chr(i)' | grep '[a-z]' 23:48:41 Binary file (standard input) matches 23:48:50 oops 23:49:16 `run python -c 'for i in range(32, 127): print chr(i)' | grep '[a-z]' 23:49:18 A \ B \ C \ D \ E \ F \ G \ H \ I \ J \ K \ L \ M \ N \ O \ P \ Q \ R \ S \ T \ U \ V \ W \ X \ Y \ a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:49:26 `run python -c 'for i in range(32, 127): print chr(i)' | grep '[a-z]' -a 23:49:28 A \ B \ C \ D \ E \ F \ G \ H \ I \ J \ K \ L \ M \ N \ O \ P \ Q \ R \ S \ T \ U \ V \ W \ X \ Y \ a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:49:51 `run python -c 'for i in range(255): print chr(i)' | grep '[a-z]' -a 23:49:53 A \ B \ C \ D \ E \ F \ G \ H \ I \ J \ K \ L \ M \ N \ O \ P \ Q \ R \ S \ T \ U \ V \ W \ X \ Y \ a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:50:10 `run python -c 'for i in range(255): print chr(i)' | grep -o '[a-z]' -a 23:50:12 a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:50:32 `run python -c 'for i in range(32, 127): print chr(i)' | sort 23:50:41 `run python -c 'for i in range(32, 127): print chr(i)' | sort 23:50:43 ​` \ ^ \ ~ \ < \ = \ > \ | \ \ _ \ - \ , \ ; \ : \ ! \ ? \ / \ . \ ' \ " \ ( \ ) \ [ \ ] \ { \ } \ @ \ $ \ * \ \ \ & \ # \ % \ + \ 0 \ 1 \ 2 \ 3 \ 4 \ 5 \ 6 \ 7 \ 8 \ 9 \ a \ A \ b \ B \ c \ C \ d \ D \ e \ E \ f \ F \ g \ G \ h \ H \ i \ I \ j \ J \ k \ K \ l \ L \ m \ M \ n \ N \ o \ O \ p \ P \ q \ Q \ r \ R \ s \ S \ t \ T \ u \ U \ v \ V \ 23:50:54 there you go. 23:51:46 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:18 `run python -c 'for i in range(32,127): print chr(i)' | grep -o '[a-z]' 23:55:19 a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 23:59:18 <^v> `i hate python 23:59:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: i: not found 23:59:22 I have seen the term "library" used in reference to pokemon card game just once, and in that case it is capitalized too for some reason. 2013-09-04: 00:09:42 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:12:23 `run cd wisdom; ls -1 | grep '[:upper:]' 00:12:25 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 00:12:29 oops 00:12:36 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | grep '[:upper:]' 00:12:38 america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bigchar \ bike \ bird \ bonvenon \ botlop \ braid theory \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ cakeprophet \ california \ caps lock \ category \ category-helpdesk \ category theory \ cello \ certainly \ certainty \ chess \ claustrophobia \ cocoonspirator \ coffe 00:12:49 O_O 00:13:07 there is weird, and there is broken. this is broken. 00:14:45 I am annoyed that oerjan has decided to annoy people 00:14:47 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG= grep '[:upper:]' 00:14:49 america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bigchar \ bike \ bird \ bonvenon \ botlop \ braid theory \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ cakeprophet \ california \ caps lock \ category \ category-helpdesk \ category theory \ cello \ certainly \ certainty \ chess \ claustrophobia \ cocoonspirator \ coffe 00:14:55 WHAT 00:14:57 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^onrv. 00:15:17 -!- ^onrv has changed nick to ^v. 00:15:22 `run ls /bin | grep '[[:upper:]]' 00:15:23 Jafet: i have no idea why this prints those lines 00:15:23 No output. 00:16:03 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG=C grep '[A-Z]' 00:16:05 Roujo's relevant info \ wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 00:18:53 `run mv wisdom/{R,r}"oujo's relevant info" 00:18:56 No output. 00:19:02 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG=C grep '[A-Z]' 00:19:04 wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 00:19:38 Jafet: it's not my fault that grep with a locale completely ignores the intended meaning of [:upper:] 00:20:32 `run echo TEST | grep '[[:upper:]]' 00:20:34 TEST 00:20:38 `run echo TEST | grep '[[:lower:]]' 00:20:39 No output. 00:20:48 I can't hear you 00:20:57 oh darn 00:21:41 * oerjan swats himself -----### 00:29:09 I have read somewhere of "Rochester poker", where you make a poker hand like you draft cards in Magic: the Gathering. 00:29:19 `? banach-tarski 00:29:21 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 00:29:26 ... 00:29:30 I don't know what I expected 00:29:47 Roujo: I have seen that joke before, in some book 00:30:02 `? ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 00:30:03 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:30:04 | 00:30:04 o/`¯º 00:30:44 `? myndzi 00:30:46 myndzi keeps us all on our feet 00:30:47 `run echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ > wisdom/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 00:30:50 No output. 00:31:17 I'm impressed at the amount of characters filenames can take 00:34:05 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:37:36 @wn donger 00:37:37 No match for "donger". 00:37:49 ~duck donger 00:38:19 I think in "native" UNIX filesystems you can have any byte except 0x00 or 0x2F ('/') and it doesn't much care what encoding they conform to, either 00:38:25 hm cephalopod shortage 00:39:51 kmc, but presumably there are UTF-8 characters encoded with a 0x2f? 00:40:06 No. 00:40:09 0x2f is only used to encode the character 0x2f 00:40:20 the codepoint 00:40:48 UTF-8 follows the Principle of Extended ASCII, so it means all ASCII codes always correspond to themself. 00:41:15 endocorrespondence 00:41:51 such is the genius of the prophet ken thompson 00:42:45 Some programs using UTF-8 fail to follow the Principle of Extended ASCII, however. 00:45:40 oh, duh 01:24:43 `addquote my contract states right here that I have to tell you the best version of python is called haskell 2010 01:24:47 1100) my contract states right here that I have to tell you the best version of python is called haskell 2010 01:25:22 Don't confuse Python with Haskell. 01:25:44 zzo38: it's not confusion it's a joke 01:26:22 Yes, it is a joke, you may not be confusing things, but you still shouldn't confuse it (regardless of whether or not you do). 01:35:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:36:04 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:43:15 `slist if you haven't seen the one from a few hours ago 01:43:17 slist if you haven't seen the one from a few hours ago: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:46:11 -!- mad has joined. 01:46:14 sup 01:46:24 n 01:47:02 it's so hard to come up with an architecture that's simple and efficient 01:47:11 and not just end up with another MIPS clone 01:47:27 that's why they pay people big bux for doing so, i guess! 01:47:28 mad: It does seems so. 01:47:39 I've ended up with 01:47:42 mov add sub cmp ucp mul 01:47:42 and or xor lsr lsl asr 01:47:42 ld ldh ldb lds ldc st sth stb 01:47:42 jz jnz jp jl jr sys 01:47:54 OK, now describe it 01:48:14 all instructions are opcode rd, rx, ry/#immediate 01:48:19 except jumps 01:48:26 where rd = destination register 01:48:32 rx = source register 1 01:48:53 ry/#immediate = source 2 is either a register, or an immediate 01:48:57 OK 01:49:12 What are the registers, then? What are the other features? 01:49:39 registers are... r0..r15 or r0..r31, haven't decided on 16 vs 32 yet 01:50:01 Also describe exact function of instructions. 01:50:29 mov add sub mul and or xor lsr lsl asr are exactly what you'd expect 01:50:39 OK, that is expected. 01:51:07 What are others, though? 01:51:44 cmp does a signed comparison between two registers and writes 0 if rx is smaller than ry, and... -1 if it's larger (or it could be 1, I'm not sure which is better, MIPS goes for 1) 01:52:04 ucp is the same thing but with unsigned comparison 01:52:09 OK 01:52:55 ld is 32 bit load, source #2 is shifted 2 bits left and added to source #1 and then the aligned data at that address is loaded 01:53:27 Both using -1 and using +1 can be useful for different reasons (for C compiling, you should use +1; for BASIC, you should use -1; Forth tends to use -1 too) 01:53:38 ldh lds are 16bit, unsigned and signed, source #2 is shifted 1 bit 01:54:05 OK 01:54:06 ldb ldc are 8bit, unsigned and signed, source #2 isn't shifted 01:54:36 st sth stb are stores (32bit, 16bit, 8bit respectively, source #2 is shifted the right amount of bits) 01:54:52 Is it source #2 which is signed? 01:55:05 no it's the data loaded from memory 01:55:16 O, OK. 01:55:22 So it is sign extended. 01:55:28 yes of course 01:56:11 jz checks if a register is 0, and jumps to an immediate offset if yes (signed offset relative to the instruction) 01:56:25 jnz is same but for register != 0 01:56:49 OK 01:56:54 jp is same but always jumps (and might have a larger immediate but is still relative to PC) 01:57:41 jl is the same but it writes the value of the PC to a register (probably r14 or r30, ARM uses r13) 01:58:00 jr jumps to the memory address in a register 01:58:18 so returning from a function is effectively jr r14 01:58:38 If the PC is also one of the registers, do you need jr instruction? 01:58:51 PC is not a named register 01:59:06 not orthogonal enough 01:59:21 ARM had that (PC = r15) and regretted it 01:59:50 I do suppose having the number for PC register can be messing up caching 02:00:18 irl on a typical pipeline the PC will be at least a couple cycles off 02:00:47 and once the design becomes superscalar with branch prediction the relationship becomes even crazier 02:00:52 not worth it 02:00:53 I think explicit pipelining and caching should be better though 02:01:06 zzo38: I didn't peg you for a fan of Itanic. 02:01:37 explicit pipelining sounds like a bad plan to me but I'm not familiar with the concept 02:02:47 how do you explicit pipeline a cpu anyways 02:02:50 I think not implementing it at all would be better than having it automatic 02:05:12 the thing with the PC is that it lives in a completely different part of the pipeline 02:05:50 and also it needs its own read/write ports 02:05:57 One thing that might be done is having a microcode memory partially ROM and partially RAM, and then your program is running in there (there can be more than one microcode core, for parallel execution of some instructions), which can use the data RAM in the microcode for caching; you can then which which microcode memory spaces are address and data. 02:06:10 (I mean which are program and data) 02:06:44 I'm pretty sure you gain nothing from conflating the PC with the other registers 02:07:05 Therefore it is not quite harvard, because you can swap the program with the data 02:07:15 hm 02:07:38 I'd definitively keep instruction cache and microcode separate 02:07:52 and data cache too 02:08:00 mad: Except when you're dealing in emulation. Then the PC is best considered another register. 02:08:16 pikhq: true 02:08:18 Of course, nobody designs ISAs around emulators. :) 02:08:24 well 02:08:32 pikhq: Except for Z-machine 02:08:33 for emulators I'd still keep the PC separate 02:08:47 actually for emulators I'd go for total hardvard architecture 02:08:52 zzo38: I mean "CPU ISAs" obviously. 02:09:01 pikhq: Yes 02:09:16 zzo38: Obviously VMs are designed all the time. :) 02:09:19 and probably even separate the return address stack from everything else 02:09:35 mad: Hmm. True, this would make some aspects a lot simpler. 02:10:12 Namely, any sort of optimization of the VM beyond naive intepretation. 02:10:19 also I'd remove the "register jump" and replace it with "indirect jump with a look up table" or something like that 02:10:28 so that all the jumps can be easily retargetted 02:10:50 to make sure you can relatively easy JIT recompile your code 02:10:54 so that it runs fast 02:10:57 anyways 02:11:18 You can get fairly impressive performance from an interpreter if you're quite careful in its design. 02:11:49 Well, I think Z-machine is well designed (that is, the one Infocom designed) 02:11:50 "you get 7 registers" "why" "cause that's how many fits in the x86 recompiled code" 02:12:32 The secret is to have an indirect jump at the end of each instruction's code so the branch predictor doesn't do literally 100% misprediction. 02:12:48 Still mispredicts a lot, obviously, but hey. 02:13:08 actually it might be possible to shuffle the stack pointer around in some less important register and get 8 registers 02:13:28 pikhq : oh that's a nice idea actually 02:13:41 I've done it. It helps quite a bit. 02:13:46 kinda wondering how to get msvc to compile that kind of code 02:13:59 Ah, the answer there is "don't". 02:14:13 Or, alternately, have a switch statement in a macro. :) 02:14:53 yeah I have to check if MSVC compiles it to multiple return statements or a single one 02:15:44 Also, re: x86 registers. Though inconvenient you could honestly use the floating point register stack for a few more registers. 02:16:15 I'm not sure that would be any faster than just using memory for the overflow registers 02:16:34 Keep in mind that you can actually do integer arithmetic with those registers. 02:16:58 I'm not sure there's any opcodes for transferring data to/from normal registrers to FPU ones 02:17:12 though there are some for MMX registers and SSE ones I think 02:18:00 anyhow 02:18:30 for a CPU with dynamic microcode, you really want the microcode to be in a separate bank than instruction and data cache 02:19:00 otherwise you have to share your access ports between the microcode and data cache 02:19:18 which divides your throughput and increases the width of your multiplexers 02:19:22 so it's like double bad 02:21:02 I'm not sure it's possible to design a fast cpu with dynamic microcode either 02:21:18 Doesn't seem there's an instruction for transferring to/from normal registers, no. 02:21:36 mad: Well, it isn't fast if the program isn't written in microcodes. 02:21:41 Just to memory. 02:21:53 I don't know; I still want to simplify it by having the microcode being the only cache (there can still be a separate program and data cache, and you can switch which one is program and which one is data) 02:23:16 Probably simplest to just go via MMX. 02:23:17 you're not simplifying it 02:23:26 if you make it the same as some other thing 02:23:49 because if you make them separate, then you can simply make everything read 1 data on every cycle 02:23:53 The program cache I mean is only the microcode program cache though 02:23:55 1 instruction per cycle 02:24:06 1 memory read per cycle 02:24:15 1 microcode access per cycle 02:24:35 if you conflate, say, the data cache and microcode cache 02:24:53 then you have to decide on each cycle who gets to read from it 02:25:11 That isn't what I am doing, as I am specifying 02:26:45 you mean like the instruction cache contains microcode instead of instructions? 02:26:55 Yes. 02:29:33 that's actually not a bad idea 02:29:39 pentium 4 did that 02:29:42 The microcode ROM would load the rest of the microcode program from the external ROM and then switch to the other bank. 02:30:24 A microcode program would then be unable to modify itself directly; you would have to load a program into the other bank which modifies this one, instead. 02:31:01 (This is also the only way for the microcode program to read itself) 02:32:13 I don't know if any computer does this, but I like it 02:32:37 you have to look up on how the pentium 4 did its trace cache 02:34:33 and how the crusoe did its crazy stuff 02:38:06 What similarities and differences is there from what I wrote about? 02:38:49 the crusoe is some kind of VLIW with 128bit opcodes 02:39:02 but the first thing it does is load up some x86 emulator 02:39:34 then it dynamically translates x86 code into its VLIW instruction set as it goes along 02:39:45 you never get access to the VLIW core 02:40:18 <^v> i am sooooo ||ed 02:40:55 it reserves something like 512k for the VLIW operation 02:41:16 and it has all sorts of insane stuff to keep the emulation running smooth 02:41:35 like explicit memory anti-aliasing instructions 02:42:26 the pentium 4 is a lot more sane 02:47:17 But do any have the only cache being microcode cache, there are two of them and you can switch between which is program and which is data? 02:47:38 no 02:49:00 Then make such thing 02:49:02 being able to switch would add extra multiplexers in the cpu 02:49:05 and make it slower 02:49:27 also, switching would probably require a pipeline flush 02:50:09 Yes, I can understand those things 02:51:15 Although I was thinking of not even having a pipeline, and furthermore the user program is written in microcodes therefore it isn't as slow 02:51:38 `slist 02:51:39 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:52:10 Any pipeline it does have is explicitly programmed using multi cores; there would be no implicit pipelining 02:54:25 the general problem with explicit pipelining is that it's very hard to process a clean interrupt on that 02:55:02 afaik you have to freeze everything and then empty all the multiple cycle versions of everything 02:55:58 Sgeo: gamzee 02:57:34 MIPS etc had these problems 02:57:41 like on branch delay slots 02:58:35 Branch delay slots. Sigh. 02:58:39 Such a wonky idea. 02:58:41 and I think the first few MIPS had some bugs on when interrupts happened on the same cycle as branches 02:59:20 pikhq : it's sorta worth it when you're at 1 instruction per cycle and you don't have a branch target buffer 02:59:36 Just ignore that stuff and you instead implement it in the user program. 02:59:42 but then when you become superscalar with a branch predictor you regret it 03:00:17 MIPS is mostly an embedded CPU nowadays so it might have been good for them overall 03:01:19 Don't add superscalar, branch prediction, and all that stuff; implement static prediction in the parts of the user program which are written in microcodes. 03:02:07 You can also implement the other things using that, and using multi core microcodes (they do not all have to be equivalent cores) 03:02:18 hm 03:02:43 on a design like that you're probably better of handling interrupts on a separate CPU 03:03:09 when an interrupt happens, completely freeze the larger configurable core 03:03:35 have a smaller specialized core correctly save/restore the state and handle interrupts 03:03:50 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:03:53 Yes, you could do that 03:05:06 It might work 03:06:00 what sort of code do you want to run? 03:06:35 Can you be more specific? 03:07:31 do you want to emulate existing cpus or do fast number crunching or run straight C++ code with memory ops and jumps all over the place? 03:07:57 Run a code which is programmed specificly for this CPU 03:08:21 Programmed using microcodes that do what is helpful 03:08:35 hm 03:08:44 so assembly code? 03:08:49 Yes 03:08:57 doing what sort of processing? 03:09:10 what if we, like, used different CPUs for different kinds of programs,,, and, like, made it all super fast, man...................... 03:09:13 I don't know entirely, but there are a few different kinds I was thinking of 03:09:27 Bike: You shouldn't have too many though 03:09:31 Bike: Well, if we could manage gigahertz FPGAs... :) 03:10:27 i just want a computer made of acids :( 03:10:35 if you could 8 way superscalar execute MIPS code I'd be pretty impressed :o 03:10:35 One think I think of involves emulating 6502 or the old x86, other thing that could be done is Z-machine, you could also do mathematical things, possibly physics, graphics, audio, there are many things to do. Some kinds of things do not have to be as fast as other things, though. 03:11:24 6502 is like impossible to optimize 03:11:34 You can see, therefore, that some things don't have to be so fast as other things, just because of the kind of programs 03:12:06 mad: Yes I know that, but it wouldn't have to be as fast as other things anyways 03:12:17 or a neuromorphic machine, partly because "neurmorphic" sounds too cool to be real 03:12:26 yeah but that's why I'm asking what's your heavyest usage element 03:12:48 the parts that can be slow aren't really important and can be implemented any way 03:13:10 like if you start with a boring old MIPS it does ok at pretty much all of those things 03:13:23 (ok with an FPU for code that uses that) 03:14:29 (or maybe with some MAC/SIMD opcodes for sound processing instead) 03:14:35 like 03:14:44 you have to know what's the limiting factor 03:15:03 what's going to make a difference 03:15:39 I mean that you can simplify it and not implement a lot of things in hardware; implement most of in user microcodes, and then the microcodes can be designed so that things that are really complicated will run fast. 03:16:23 you can't really simplify a MIPS 03:17:41 a single issue MIPS is like a 2 port 32 register file wired more or less straight into a 32 bit ALU wired more or less straight into the data cache 03:17:59 (or RAM) 03:18:36 With opcodes as close as possible to microcode 03:18:36 I dunno, I suspect you could simplify it slightly. But you'd be shuffling a few relatively inessential features. 03:19:17 you could take out the ADD instruction that does interrupts on overflows yeah 03:19:33 and probably the add carry instruction too (if I remember correctly) 03:19:34 I am not worried too much about speed, and consider simplicity of the implementation to be more important 03:19:41 MIPS definitely lacks gratuitous insanity, which already makes it, like, the simplest common ISA. 03:20:13 you could take out the multiplier 03:20:18 but then multiplies are a lot slower 03:20:34 you could take out the multiple memory access sizes 03:20:55 but then if you have something that does 8 or 16 bit accesses it becomes a lot slower 03:21:26 you could take out the memory ops that do address calculation 03:22:14 -!- ^v has changed nick to notmad. 03:22:19 but then you're using more registers and more instruction cache and also memory accesses become 2 cycles for real essentially 03:22:40 so it's a bad idea 03:23:53 (though I guess it would simplify implementation) 03:26:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:27:35 It is why I suggested doing things such as programming the user program in microcodes 03:27:50 you could probably take out most immediates in instructions which would make it appreciably slower and use up registers but it would simplify the instruction set 03:28:24 using microcodes would definitely make it easier to implement 03:28:31 and maybe not slower 03:28:37 but harder to program also 03:28:49 Yes, that is why I suggest it; it make it easier to implement and not slower. 03:28:51 and it would have larger programs 03:30:04 You could still have the user program in the microcode to implement some instruction set for the rest of the program if it would help to do so for that particular program, but you don't have to, in case it won't help with that program 03:30:34 this sounds sorta like the itanium 03:30:40 which was VLIW-ish 03:30:50 mad: I'd be in favor of taking out immediates if you just wanted a "very simple" ISA. 03:30:54 Yes, VLIW is also part of the design I am thinking of to do 03:31:04 it actually worked kinda well for floating point code 03:31:06 But yes, I'll agree with your point (in essence) 03:31:21 but it was just worse than x86 for normal integer stuff 03:31:36 MIPS is about as simple as you can get without having to hit major tradeoffs. 03:32:20 Such as "eh, it'll be notably slower at any computations, but who cares" 03:32:23 due to larger instructions (= less instruction cache and instruction loading bandwidth), less crazy reordering and memory renaming etc 03:32:39 yeah it's kinda hard to take anything from MIPS 03:32:56 it's like, every thing it has is useful 03:33:28 inversely it's not that easy to add stuff to MIPS 03:33:40 aside from separate stuff like a FPU and a SIMD unit 03:34:01 And goofy stuff that you wonder why any human being would desire it. 03:34:15 any kind of thing you can add has a performance downside somewhere 03:34:44 in particular running out of register read ports 03:34:46 You could *totally* have a "x86 segmented address to physical address" instruction in there, it'd just be a bad idea. :) 03:35:03 Even *if* all you want to do with it is emulate 16-bit x86. 03:35:13 true 03:35:44 I'm pretty sure even x86 cpus have an extra cycle latency penalty somewhere if you use that stuff too 03:36:15 Oh, I imagine. There's rather a lot of x86 features floating around that you can only use at serious cost. 03:36:31 true 03:36:45 or at just enough cost that it's just not worth it 03:37:10 I mean, come on, x87 handles BCD. 03:37:27 -!- notmad has changed nick to ^v. 03:37:38 as in, you're not gaining anything over using the x86 as some kind of degenerate MIPS 03:38:19 I'm still not sure if the instructions that do a calculation + a memory load aren't worth it though 03:38:30 stuff like add eax, [ebx + 64] 03:40:11 it has a lot of downsides (it's 3 cycles+ latency and it has all the complexity of both a memory load and a calculation, plus it can require 3 register read ports) 03:40:30 but it's also kindof compact and useful and it's essentially 2 instructions in 1 03:40:53 The modern x86 set is really extremely too complicated 03:41:27 It's not designed, it's evolved. 03:41:48 And it is evolved badly too. 03:41:49 perhaps it could use some selection pressure. 03:42:03 actually, has there been any work on mechanical processor design 03:42:48 it could use some pruning yes 03:43:00 mostly some way of getting rid of 16bit mode 03:43:21 you know, like evolving an instruction set where the fitness measurement is the average performance on some benchmark programs, or something. 03:43:35 and segment addressing if possible (which might be impossible due to being used in win32 programs) 03:43:38 No, the thing you should get rid of is things like Super Mario game in one instruction and so on 03:43:46 (x86 doesn't have that, but it has things almost as complicated) 03:44:02 x86 has BCD 03:44:21 x86 has BCD in multiple different ways. 03:44:23 which is retarded but at some point a bank wanted it so they got it 03:44:51 There's BCD on the normal registers *and* BCD in the x87 FPU. 03:45:05 always wanted floating point bcd 03:45:16 I don't want to imagine the perf on x87 FPU :3 03:45:29 it's probably something monstruous like an interrupt on each operation 03:45:30 Oh, that's the funny part. It's not floating point. 03:45:41 x87 actually can be used as an integer unit as well. 03:45:56 awesome. 03:45:57 16, 32, and 64 bit ints. 03:46:08 thank goodness i looked up the x87 pusher once and found out he's pretty much crazy. 03:46:10 heh, that's... horrible 03:46:59 Eh, not quite as bad as you'd expect at least. x87 float's mantissa is 64 bits. 03:47:34 what's the point of using the fpu for doing integer calculations 03:47:47 8086. 03:48:14 but seriously anybody got an answer re: my random speuclating 03:48:15 didn't the 8087 have monstruously long cycle times? 03:48:28 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:48:30 Just made myself a nice Read instance for (a -> b) using the hint package. I’ve been needing that. 03:48:47 Compared with doing 64-bit int add from your 16-bit ALU? :) 03:48:49 carado: How does that work? 03:49:03 pikhq: that's like 3 ADC's and an ADD 03:49:27 zzo38, the hint package allows one to interpret Haskell in Haskell using GHC as a library. 03:49:29 dunno how long that is on the 8086 but on the 286 and 386 that's not particularly long 03:49:45 But yeah, it's goofy. 03:49:58 carado: O, OK, I suppose that can work. 03:50:08 like 24 cycles if your operand is in memory 03:51:03 * pikhq blinks some more 03:51:16 There were *non* 8087-compatible floating point coprocessors for the 8086 03:51:34 Yes, x86 is really stupid. 03:51:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:51:56 x86 is still better than 6502 03:51:59 This worked because the 8086 03:52:09 and it's probably better than the z80 03:52:16 No, I think x86 is the most stupid one. 03:52:19 no way 03:52:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:52:29 the 6502 is impossible to pipeline 03:52:32 's knowledge of floats was just looking for the sequence 0b11011. 03:52:48 the x86 has lots of cruft but it's pipelinable 03:52:58 We'd probably regret the 6502 a lot more than the x86 if it'd survived. 03:53:45 6502's 2013 version still has the page boundary bug,for compat :D 03:54:00 like, aside from the cruft and the memory-operation opcodes and no 3 operand opcodes, the x86 is still essentially an 8 register RISC 03:54:08 I can guarantee that the hacks on the 6502 would be at *least* as bad as x86. 03:54:31 like, you can turn the x86 into the pentium 03:54:44 which is actually pretty nice in many ways 03:54:48 pikhq: Yes, they would, but that is why, don't do it. 03:54:59 you can't make a pentium version of the 6502 03:55:04 it's essentially unpossible 03:55:28 don't upgrade 6502 by evolution for thirty years. got it. 03:55:44 you'd have to try something insane like turning the zero page into a register file 03:55:55 that sounds awesomely shitty. 03:56:04 That is why, don't do such things; keep it as it is. 03:56:07 x86 is bad because you don't want to break DOS. 03:56:17 But DOS is not so bad. 03:56:19 and also combining multiple opcodes together into single opcodes 03:56:21 like 03:57:38 lda $60 + clcl + adc $64 + sta $68 => add r68h, r60h, r64h 03:59:09 I'm not familiar enough with the z80 but it has similar faults 03:59:36 mainly that they ran out of instructions super fast so it has instruction prefixes all over the place 03:59:42 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:59:42 -!- fizzie has joined. 03:59:43 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host). 03:59:44 -!- fizzie has joined. 04:01:42 though it does have enough registers to compute stuff so it's probably a lot better than the 6502 still 04:01:43 like, afaik it's somewhere between the 6502 and the x86 in terms of design 04:01:43 68000 might have been better than x86 04:02:20 it's at least an OK instruction set since they pipelined it and superscalared it 04:02:26 Maybe 04:02:37 and I'm not sure if the separation between address and data registers is a good or a bad thing 04:03:36 it's slightly more CISC than x86 but it doesn't have 8bit opcodes (everything is multiples of 16 bits) and it definitely has less instruction set insanity 04:04:06 though it has opcodes that do like 4 thing and have debatable usefulness 04:06:01 then again it doesn't have real mode 04:07:35 zzo38 : anyhow 04:07:49 the mips has more or less ideal latency for everything (1 cycle) 04:08:09 (2 cycle for memory access since that's really an add then a load) 04:08:41 which means that the only real way to beat it is to do 2 or 3 or more things on each cycle 04:09:36 and then again you could just superscalarize the mips and make it 2-instructions per cycle 04:09:51 in which case you're once again not winning anything over the mips 04:14:17 essentially to win anything over the mips you need to be doing something like DSP 04:14:27 with hand coded assembly 04:14:48 and not too many load/stores 04:15:31 (if there are too many load/stores then the program becomes bottlenecked by memory bandwidth or something like that and then you're not faster than a MIPS) 04:15:43 Can you play Pokemon card? 04:16:23 Anyone that can play Pokemon card, please review some thing I wrote relating to it 04:28:04 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:29:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:36:16 Do you know about "Worse-Is-Better" design? 04:38:45 no 04:42:00 It is also called New Jersey style. 04:42:42 i forget, did the guy who wrote worse is better i forget his name like christopher alexander 04:43:18 Wikipedia says Richard P. Gabriel 04:43:29 yeah him. 04:44:04 interesting guy. did some work on parallel code in lisp. trying to get straight how fucked he was wrt design though 04:44:10 have you ever, like, seen christopher alexander's writing 04:44:27 I don't know 04:46:48 I think too many programs in modern Linux systems are not implemented as a filter, even though they ought to be. The program "dvilj4" gives a help file when you invoke it with no arguments, although I think it ought to act like a filter 04:47:36 higgledy piggledy, / richard p. gabriel / said worse is better / (so better is worse); // turns out the worst, though -- / worse even than better -- is / how i decided to / finish this verse 04:48:18 kmc: ☝ more double dactyl 04:48:31 <3 04:48:54 haha, beaut. 04:48:57 Oops, that "(so" should be moved to the left of the /. 04:49:12 aren't you supposed to have one line that's a single word? maybe that's why it's worse 04:49:18 Oh, right. 04:49:21 I forgot about that. :-( 04:50:21 imo someone fix it 04:52:46 mad: Do you have any idea relating to hardware programming languages? 04:59:14 hm 05:07:40 I have written a few things of some of my ideas. 05:08:13 One thing I have is that numbers are specified in binary format by default (you need a prefix for decimal and hex). 05:12:33 Another is how module calls work; in Verilog you have module calls with names and I/O, but in HWPL (the name for my (incomplete) design), instead you have macro parameters in parentheses after the module name (the call itself has no name), and then after that you have the I/O vector (there is just one I/O vector). 05:14:35 (and the number of bits in the I/O vector is an implicit macro parameter) 05:15:04 What is your opinion of these kind of things? 05:19:52 kinda falling asleep atm :o 05:20:07 OK 05:25:05 -!- douglass has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:41:01 It looks to me that SQL is almost suitable for text adventure games. 05:48:24 -!- zzo38 has left. 05:48:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:49:21 05:55:51 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:03:04 zzo38: do you think that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park is New Jersey Style 06:03:17 lol 06:03:36 kmc: I may look later, not now 06:03:42 ok 06:07:10 kmc: wavelet trees are neat 06:07:16 what are they 06:07:18 you missed edwardk's explanation in -lens 06:07:22 aw 06:07:30 wavelets have to do with lens? 06:07:40 #-lens is more like #edwardk 06:08:02 "It generalizes the \mathbf{rank}_q and \mathbf{select}_q operations defined on bitvectors to arbitrary alphabets." oh, that's nice. 06:08:30 I could probably paste the logs. 06:23:33 kmc: what are some nifty data structures and things 06:34:12 skip lists 06:34:29 -!- mad has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:37:17 i already know about those :'( 06:38:27 work stealing queues 06:39:05 fibonacci heaps (comedy answer) 06:49:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:56:09 -!- ssue___ has joined. 06:57:54 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:54 -!- ssue___ has changed nick to ssue__. 06:59:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:03:15 -!- sdile has joined. 07:03:19 Has anyone used Inline::C/ASM in Perl? 07:03:38 Is it worth using for just getting the address ESP points to? I feel like I'm cheating if I start using inline ASM in C, since I haven't been introduced to it. 07:04:27 Cheating due to not being introduced to it? 07:04:33 I don't think so. 07:05:58 zzo38: I don't understand how it works, but I could read up on it. 07:06:11 I'm not sure what "getting the address ESP points to" means in your context exactly. 07:06:37 shachaf: With regard to bufferoverflows/shellcode 07:06:52 I feel like it's the same as ripping code. 07:07:19 Do you think it's okay to just read up on it and use it, even if I haven't done it in K&R2? 07:07:49 I'm mostly not sure what you're on about. 07:10:50 using some Perl thing to find the value of ESP within some Perl code would not be very helpful for exploiting a C program, I think 07:11:09 I suggest you either learn the little bit of asm (it's not much) or do the hack of taking the address of a local variable, which will probably give you a number near ESP 07:11:20 but I'm not really sure what you're on about, either 07:13:43 kmc: What I'm up to is just pointers, memcpy() and inline ASM. Pointers and memcpy() is chapter 5 I'm pretty certain, inline ASM I can just read up on after that. 07:13:52 I'm almost up to chapter 4, so I'll just have to speed through it. 07:14:22 I've used Inline::C for no particular reason. But I concur that getting the value of esp in an Inline::C function does not sound terribly useful. 07:16:32 fizzie: It does sound ridiculous. 07:17:01 fizzie: But, I felt like it's cheating if I used inline ASM in C. 07:17:12 Since I'm not that far into it, yet. 07:17:36 My "TV plot" program has been updated; now you can make even more strange and/or interesting and/or bad movies. 07:25:08 sdile: Why do you need the address ESP points to? 07:25:34 It won't be very portable if you have ASM codes anyways 07:26:12 x86 is p. portable 07:26:56 Not really so much. 07:51:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:02:45 Is there some way to unreverb audio signal? 08:06:57 I am trying to create a 'broken/vulnerable' encryption algorithm, in which one can obtain the key. http://pastebin.com/zj7b8Tsx 08:06:58 Any ideas? 08:08:31 Why do you try to do that? 08:08:55 Just for fun/learning 08:09:03 OK 08:11:11 So any ideas? 08:11:53 One idea I have is somehow have in addition to the normal key, to have a algorithm key, which can be used to recover the normal key. 08:12:01 I don't know how you would do this, though. 08:13:49 There are various dereverberation algorithms, it's a big field. None of them are perfect, of course. 08:14:58 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:15:54 (And usually need some assumptions.) 08:17:05 useful for speech recognition? 08:17:23 Yes. 08:17:46 What if it isn't speech? 08:17:47 Might even be the context for majority of them. 08:18:48 can't you just apply the inverse of the reverb? how hard can it be? 08:18:59 Some of them presumably would work up to some degree. Esp. the multi-microphone ones, but you might have just a single channel. 08:19:45 olsner: It's p. easy if you have a good estimate of the reverb. 08:22:16 ( i.e. 4 // random number generated by toss of fair die 08:22:16 ) 08:22:33 i suppose if you use a block cipher with most of the block full of the same garbage in each block, then you will reveal the key 08:23:33 if you poll /dev/random for 512 bits and compose blocks with the same 512 as fill.... 08:25:20 Anyone? 08:25:39 You could try that, see if it is working 08:26:15 hum... spending over 1.5 hours writing a comment... exhausting 08:26:43 What comment? 08:27:13 for Hackage, it's a bit of a dense one. https://github.com/haskell/hackage-server/issues/40#issuecomment-23773355 08:33:35 for example. gen a key array; instead of target = xor(source[index],key_element[index])... do xor(source[index],key_element[index,index%N]) 08:35:41 sdile: Why do you have both "index" and "index%N" for the "key_element" now? 08:36:43 zzo38: take the same XOR code, but vary the key. the key is a keyset 08:36:51 so instead of a 1d array, it's 2d. 08:37:54 OK, it certainly doesn't seem so useful (since not all of the array is in use, it would seem), unless you can vary N, or whatever 08:49:02 zzo38: i am suggesting two dimenions, with the second being somewhat small (10, 20) 08:49:27 Yes, I know that already 08:50:49 zzo38: but... in retrospect, i see that does not make it two dimensional, it just makes the other bytes redundat 08:50:50 n 08:51:00 Yes that is what I was saying 08:56:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:20:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:24:01 `slist gamzee 09:24:03 slist gamzee: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:40:47 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:41:00 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:45:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:10:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:38:35 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 10:43:09 -!- Guest18414 has joined. 10:54:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:22:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:28:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:29:49 -!- sdile has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:32:02 -!- conehead has joined. 11:44:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:45:25 help i am nervous 11:52:07 nyaa? 11:57:53 Thank you Fiora 12:17:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:26:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:02:29 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:03:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:47 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:34:10 good not-so-many-idlers-today morning! 13:35:51 Idling is the great international pastime. :) 13:36:57 pikhello! 13:37:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:38:43 `relcome azaq23 13:38:46 ​azaq23: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:43:10 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:50:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:56:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:07:40 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to monotone. 14:22:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:24:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:27:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:35:37 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:41:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:33 -!- augur has joined. 15:03:13 hi boily 15:03:40 hi quintopia. still voiced? 15:03:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:04:08 yep. i will stay voiced until my vps crashes again 15:04:10 hellom_Hoover. 15:04:17 but that hasnt happened in a long time 15:05:06 how many nines can you expect from your vps? what are the k and λ of the crashes per year? 15:06:13 it never crashed until this year. i have no idea why it started happening, but it was often for a while there. probably some changes i made causing a recurring kernel panic. 15:07:25 what the fuck 15:07:25 suddenly i can't connect to steam 15:10:34 sometimes people get emotionally estranged for subtle reasons. i doubt it is completely uncaused. what kinds of things have you been saying to steam the past few days? 15:12:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:13:21 boily: i need an umlaut 15:14:02 ¨ 15:14:09 that's a trema but no one will notice 15:15:55 quintopia: I can umlautify random letters in my ongoing LaTeX project. 15:16:14 (they'll be real, certified authentic german-made umlauts. accept no substitute!) 15:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:17:32 quintopia: also, if you're attempting to apply vodou on Phantom_Hoover with tréma, the rituals will... well... they'll work. but then there are Cönsequences. 15:17:45 no comment 15:18:33 No Cömment eh 15:18:38 no, I am not insane. the mayonnaise from that early morning BTL bagel from McDo didn't have no abverse effect on me whatsoever. 15:18:47 s/ab/ad/ 15:19:04 i c wut u did thar 15:19:13 s/TL/LT/ 15:19:22 can't fool me with your sneaky double negatives 15:19:39 darn. foiled again! 15:22:37 * quintopia shoots a pineapple chunk at boily from a straw 15:23:42 * boily receives a ballistic fruit chunk on his head. “Hey!” 15:24:13 it's the only cure for mayo-induced insanity 15:25:05 * boily glares at quintopia じ〜〜〜〜〜〜〜〜〜〜 15:25:30 * quintopia ducks and hides 15:29:15 I know where you (approẍimately) live! you won't get away! nyah. nyah ah ah. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH! 15:30:19 (oh, ẍ is used in Kurdish for [ʁ]. interesting.) 15:32:08 rotated-and-flipped small-but-capital R 15:34:31 Koen_: the metropolitan French «r». 15:35:13 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:35:50 oh 15:36:00 just call it [r] then 15:36:30 in that case, it's [ʁ], but /r/. 15:36:47 (those phone{m,t}ic transliterations are confusing as fungot.) 15:36:47 boily: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over, with much ado. your sister is the better part made mercie, i should think at least, that is expressions which have not been able to 15:36:52 boily: Oh hai 15:37:37 boily: you don't know my current coordinates1 15:37:42 Roujo: お早う。 15:37:44 boily:are you implying that phonetics written as /.../ and [...] are two DIFFERENT languages? 15:38:06 なに? 15:38:51 Koen_: afaiu, the phonemic /.../ uses as many different symbols needed to differentiate all recognized sounds in a language, and then you have [...] for the exact realisation. itthth. 15:38:54 Roujo: bon matin. 15:39:16 bof 15:39:37 Koen_: so, whatever the way we each realise our «r»s, it'll be /r/ because French has a single «r» sound. 15:39:48 boily: Ohayou gozaimasu! =D 15:40:01 I can do some japanese, just... no kanjis =P 15:40:02 Roujo: say, do you roll your «r»? 15:40:10 boily: Define rolling 15:40:19 And if you just post SAMPA, it doesn't count 15:40:25 so there's a different /../ for every language, but there's a signle [...] and it's international? 15:40:27 Or IPA 15:40:37 Or whatever 15:40:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill 15:40:50 boily: Better yet! Record yourself, and I'll tell you 15:40:50 Koen_: something like that. there's some fuziness, depending on what you're analysing. 15:40:51 "rolling an r" imo 15:40:57 nooodl: Thanks ^^ 15:41:13 I can't do that >_> 15:41:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_uvular_fricative usual french r 15:41:32 Roujo: c'est pas compliqué pour moi. prend l'accent de québec. 15:41:40 maybe not in québec though 15:41:51 nooodl: That's how I say it, yeah 15:41:54 nooodl: I have a friend from the Beauce region who rolls her rs. 15:42:22 nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:42:34 ... 15:42:50 `addquote nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:42:54 1101) nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:43:08 `? Koen_ 15:43:10 Koen_? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43:10 | 15:43:10 º¯`\o 15:43:11 `? Koen 15:43:12 Koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43:13 | 15:43:13 o/`¯º 15:43:14 Time to fix that 15:43:25 hum. 15:43:53 `run echo Uvular Fricative Expert, according to his girlfriend. *wink wink nudge nudge* > wisdom/koen_ 15:43:57 No output. 15:43:58 nooodl: the trilled r still exists. your best bet for hearing it is to find a vicar. 15:44:06 `rm wisdom/koen_ 15:44:07 :( 15:44:10 No output. 15:44:12 whyyyyy 15:44:12 that's just lazy 15:44:21 thanks Phantom 15:44:27 Alright, what do you suggest, then? 15:45:05 Roujo: also are you sure you can use the character '*' in a parameter for echo without quotes? 15:45:22 Koen_: Nope. Didn't stop me, though =P 15:45:30 What's the worst that could happen? 15:45:56 Roujo: just to be sure, use a «*̈». 15:46:12 well it could run the command with every file that matches *wink and every file that matches nudge*, or something 15:46:34 boily: How the hell do you do these 15:46:59 Koen_: Using echo? 15:47:12 If I had done something like rm, then yeah 15:47:18 Or cat 15:47:27 But echo... I don't see how it could break 15:47:38 Only one way to find out 15:47:43 (And no, that's not "man echo") 15:47:49 `run echo Test *test* test 15:47:50 Test *test* test 15:47:56 `run echo Test *test* test > testing 15:47:58 Roujo: http://pastebin.com/RS5hV8JH 15:48:00 No output. 15:48:06 `run cat testing 15:48:07 Test *test* test 15:48:10 There we go 15:48:31 Roujo: candian multilingual standard keyboard layout, and iso level 3 abuse :D 15:48:48 Koen_: Oooh, nice. I see what you mean now. 15:49:00 (also, some customisation, UIM with Anthy, and a waaaaaay too permissive terminal) 15:49:01 I thought you said that it would overwrite all the files 15:49:10 oh no echo wouldn't do that 15:49:13 Yeah 15:49:15 yeah I meant filename, not file 15:49:17 But I get what you mean now 15:49:42 I didn't know what could happen, I just figured that it wouldn't break anything other than that wisdom itself 15:51:01 boily: I see =P 15:52:00 Roujo: IPA input is a little bit more involved. I need a GTK app (usually leafpad) to select the input method, then copy&paste into weechat. 15:52:35 Oh =P 15:54:27 -!- carado has joined. 16:03:37 -!- PixelToast has joined. 16:05:18 -!- Solain has joined. 16:06:05 anyone active? 16:11:46 -!- Solain has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:13:54 bye 16:15:31 it's like shubshub 16:15:36 cool I'm still an op 16:15:46 would anyone like to be banned?? 16:18:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:44 I'm trying to quit, really 16:21:47 But thanks 16:21:51 Also, wow, Solain 16:22:00 A good... 6 minutes? 16:22:34 elliott, imo kick kmc he's bear 16:23:17 maybe I'll kick glogbackup for not actually needing to be here. 16:23:21 Gregor: will that break anything? 16:25:22 -!- conehead has joined. 16:33:01 elliott kicks glogbot, freenode dies 16:33:25 »Just got a PR pitch that described the act of placing a wet iPhone in a bag of rice to dry out as, "an old folk remedy."» 16:33:53 -!- carado_ has joined. 16:34:08 it's » » to represent moving towards the future, if you're wondering 16:34:12 an arrow of quoted fact 16:34:20 aimed directly at the heart of the past! 16:34:31 -!- elliott has kicked Bike thank you for giving me somebody to kick.. 16:34:43 -!- Bike has joined. 16:34:48 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o Bike. 16:34:49 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 16:34:51 my mischief is over. 16:34:53 what just happened 16:35:03 oh i got kicked wow 16:35:07 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -v elliott. 16:35:09 btw don't actually do anything unless it's amusing or oerjan will freak 16:35:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:35:11 that'll show you 16:35:28 -!- carado_ has changed nick to carado. 16:36:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:42:28 I take it oerjan is allergic to admin abuse? 16:43:04 only when he doesn't do it, hth! 16:43:17 (ilu oerjan <3) 16:54:03 He's not even in here 16:54:09 So abuse away! =D 16:55:24 we have logs 16:56:30 and oerjan has a habit of reading through the logs when he arrives 16:56:39 hello, future oerjan 16:57:08 sure would be unfortunate if something were to... happen to those logs, huh 16:57:16 something like................. 16:57:22 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -v glogbackup. 16:57:25 !!!!! 16:57:39 they're still on tunes and codu 16:57:53 good luck with devoicing the server 16:58:05 dude i said !!!!! 16:58:10 get with the program. this is bikeland now. 16:58:15 oh sorry 16:58:23 honestly. 16:58:30 you should edit `welcome then 16:59:03 ohhh I gotta go 16:59:09 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 17:00:09 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:18 -!- tromp__ has quit. 17:01:57 * Roujo sets mode -v codu.org 17:05:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:09:39 -!- Bike has joined. 17:09:45 Heh. 17:09:50 and so the glorious reign of bike ends. 17:10:10 not with a bang, but with god why does it always take five minutes to connect here. 17:10:16 ridiculous. 17:10:19 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o Bike. 17:10:29 three strikes and yer out 17:11:10 Bike: You timed out 260 seconds after I devoiced the server, with a timeout of 256 seconds 17:11:15 I find that very suspicious 17:11:24 back from a phở and Bike is op. interesting. 17:11:49 no. it's too late now. 17:11:56 -!- Bike has set channel mode: +o Roujo. 17:12:01 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -o Bike. 17:12:02 Wooo 17:12:07 i must leave the empire to another. 17:12:08 uhm. 17:12:15 I will honor the empire 17:12:21 * boily feels suddenly, viscerally terrified 17:12:28 (I just want to see oerjan react to this =P) 17:12:47 -!- Roujo has set channel mode: +v boily. 17:12:54 Don't feel bad, young boily 17:12:59 well, anyway, how's the pho 17:13:03 woo! back to voice! 17:13:11 i have to talk about these things now that i'm merely a commoner 17:13:22 Bike: 'twas good. the thai pepper was still fresh and powerful. 17:13:28 Roujo, req. ops 17:13:29 cool 17:13:33 don't remember the last time i had pho really 17:13:38 Bike: beware of 3.5e cats. they can kill you. 17:13:42 which is weird because i like noodles in general?? 17:13:43 Phantom_Hoover: + 17:13:51 That's a nice operator 17:13:52 imo give phantom halfop. 17:14:02 I don't think freenode supports half-ops 17:14:04 I tried once 17:14:05 Bike: there are a few places where you can get handmade ramen for cheap. 17:14:05 %Phantom_Hoover 17:14:18 hand made ramen? sewn out of raw tree 17:14:19 "h: is an unknown mode char to me" 17:14:30 to whom 17:14:34 The server 17:14:41 the server can talk? 17:14:46 E replied that when I tried to half-op Phantom_Hoover 17:14:52 Sure 17:14:58 /quote the server 17:15:00 You'll see 17:15:01 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o Roujo. 17:15:03 D: 17:15:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v boily. 17:15:05 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v kmc. 17:15:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v quintopia. 17:15:09 * Bike feels suddenly, viscerally terrified 17:15:16 a coup! 17:15:16 uhm. 17:15:22 Thus ended the Reign of Roujo the Lachinois 17:15:38 who dares, and how can i properly demonstrate my fealty to them 17:16:03 That's double talk for "suck up to them", right? 17:16:15 single talk, really 17:16:48 =P 17:21:03 `? ramen 17:21:05 ramen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:21:06 | 17:21:06 º¯`\o 17:21:48 `run echo "拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。" >wisdom/ramen 17:21:52 No output. 17:22:04 because I hate myself and need more latexian challenges. 17:24:08 Woooo 17:25:14 oh, and one more thing: elliott, you are oppressing me. check your privileges. 17:27:24 `run fsck /dev/privilege 17:27:25 bash: fsck: command not found 17:27:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:34:33 `run cksum /dev/privilege 17:34:34 cksum: /dev/privilege: No such file or directory 17:34:42 `run cksum wisdom/ramen 17:34:44 1845405672 55 wisdom/ramen 17:35:30 `run cksum /dev/random > bin/fsck 17:35:38 Hmmm 17:35:39 -!- Guest18414 has joined. 17:35:50 An echo was supposed to get in there 17:35:58 Welp 17:36:11 Also, /dev/urandom 17:36:14 Re-welp 17:36:25 /dev/evenmorerandom 17:36:33 No output. 17:36:36 Nice 17:36:42 `run cat bin/fksk 17:36:44 cat: bin/fksk: No such file or directory 17:36:49 Guest18414: who are you? why don't you echo? did you check the Random Check? how does the aftertaste of a mouthful of algæ feel? 17:36:50 `run cat bin/fsck 17:36:52 No output. 17:37:02 `run echo cksum /dev/random > bin/fsck 17:37:06 No output. 17:37:07 `run echo cksum /dev/urandom > bin/fsck 17:37:09 There we go 17:37:11 No output. 17:37:14 `relcome Guest18414 17:37:17 ​Guest18414: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:37:21 than dogs 17:37:31 ~yi 17:37:31 Your divination: "Small Exceeding" to "Conjoining" 17:37:36 ~yi 17:37:36 Your divination: "Parting" to "Articulating" 17:37:40 Nice one 17:37:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:37:45 stop doing it more than once........... 17:37:49 Bike: small exceeding is more conjoining than dogs. 17:37:57 Well, I don't want *his* divination 17:37:58 Really 17:37:59 I want mine 17:38:01 Roujo: do not consume more than your fair share of yiïtude. 17:38:31 boily: Is one more than a fair share? 17:38:37 Bike: it said small exceeding 17:38:44 Roujo: dunno. ask Bike. 17:38:45 a small exceeding of the amount of ~yis is therefore indicated 17:38:51 `run fsck elliott 17:38:53 bash: /hackenv/bin/fsck: Permission denied 17:39:03 Right. 17:39:10 `run chmod +x bin/fsck 17:39:14 No output. 17:39:14 `run fsck elliott 17:39:45 No output. 17:40:00 That's... good? 17:41:08 ~metar CYUL 17:41:15 uhm. 17:41:28 The BotVerse broke 17:41:36 Singularity is imminent 17:41:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:42 (Run) 17:41:43 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:41:47 ~metar CYUL 17:41:48 CYUL 041709Z 21008KT 15SM -SHRA FEW020 BKN030 OVC090 17/14 A2986 RMK SC2SC3AC3 SLP111 DENSITY ALT 400FT 17:42:10 phew. and here I thought even the weather was borken. 17:44:30 Don't mention the raining squirrels 17:44:34 They don't like that up there 17:45:40 one of the first thing I noticed when I moved to Montréal was the humongous megasquirrels. 17:45:59 -!- PixelToast has changed nick to dan200. 17:46:30 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:25 `? boily 17:51:27 No output. 17:51:30 wut? 17:51:30 Heh 17:51:40 but, but... 17:51:54 `? but 17:51:56 but? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:51:56 | 17:51:56 º¯`\o 17:51:59 `pastewisdom 17:52:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 17:52:57 okay, so `learn is once again acting weird. 17:53:04 `? elliott 17:53:06 No output. 17:53:12 :o 17:53:46 `? roujo 17:53:48 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. 17:57:46 oh, that is good 17:58:47 I'm lagging behind... time to upgrade! 17:59:03 `run sudo apt-get upgrade boily 17:59:04 bash: sudo: command not found 17:59:10 Well crap 17:59:20 `? treaty 17:59:21 `run which apt-get 17:59:22 The Treaty on `lists treats how to `list our treats. 17:59:23 ​/usr/bin/apt-get 17:59:26 Nice 17:59:30 `run apt-get upgrade boily 17:59:32 W: Unable to read /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ - DirectoryExists (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root? 17:59:36 Pff 17:59:53 `run su - 17:59:55 No output. 18:00:00 So... yes? 18:00:35 -!- fsioufosud has joined. 18:00:39 `relcome fsioufosud 18:00:42 ​fsioufosud: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:04:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:02 I guess he fell off 18:10:10 this compiler command line is... 16,840 characters long 18:10:58 That's a bit frightening 18:11:16 You just got to the point where you almost need to optimize *that* before compiling 18:12:23 you know something went horribly wrong when you have a novella in a compiler line... 18:12:48 yeah... I wonder what the maximum command line length is on this system 18:12:53 most compilers support a response file to put the command line when you reach the OS limit 18:13:01 olsner: .... 18:13:08 presumably because some projects inevitably actually need it 18:13:15 I'm curious 18:13:17 What does it look like? 18:13:23 Why would you get to that point? 18:13:28 Well, how, really 18:13:43 linking anything with a huge number of modules, for example 18:13:44 add files, add more files, keep adding more files, and eventually you get there 18:13:46 Admitedly, I don't compile stuff using the command line 18:13:58 So I don't even kno-- oh 18:14:02 Yeah, simple enough 18:14:06 * Roujo facepalms 18:14:34 compiler -f file.cpp file2.cpp ... filen-1.cpp filen.cpp 18:14:37 Like that&? 18:14:50 (With just files) 18:14:58 some projects use absolute paths, recursive symlinks, redundant ../ components in paths, etc to reach the limit faster 18:15:03 Nice 18:15:27 it has a lot of things like -L/home/keegan/proj/servo/servo/build/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/src/support/png/rust-png/src/.libs -Wl,-rpath,/home/keegan/proj/servo/servo/build/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/src/support/png/rust-png 18:15:38 for each of like two dozen libraries 18:15:43 also some of them are just repeated I think 18:16:31 -!- yorick has joined. 18:16:44 Good stuff =P 18:17:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:19:45 -!- fsioufosud has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:05 -!- xxx has joined. 18:20:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:21:36 `relcome xxx 18:21:39 ​xxx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:26:49 -!- Bike has joined. 18:30:20 Roujo: a Bike falling off a Bike. I'm ashamed it took me that long to understand it. 18:31:09 ^^ 18:31:36 can i help you 18:31:44 can you help us? 18:33:07 [14:04:32] Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat115.it.wsu.edu] has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 240 seconds 18:33:07 [14:05:01] I guess he fell off 18:33:13 That is all, really 18:33:18 boring imo 18:33:35 Might be 18:33:41 I didn't claim otherwise 18:33:56 It was a spur-of-the-moment thing 18:34:06 Ehlp with what? 18:34:09 Nothing too serious 18:35:14 zzo38: I don't think this channel supports extended help. you're stuck with regular help here. hth. 18:35:45 man #esoteric 18:35:52 `run man #esoteric 18:35:54 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 18:38:30 -!- tromp has joined. 18:39:59 `relcome tromp 18:40:01 ​tromp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:40:36 `run cat /dev/random > /dev/boily 18:40:38 bash: /dev/boily: Read-only file system 18:40:42 wat 18:41:12 Bike: I formatted your quotes in the wisdom pdf. 18:41:26 cool, what 18:42:03 boily: Why are you read-only. Why can't you change. 18:42:15 I gave you the chance to change. I was there for you. 18:42:24 I only asked little things every now and then 18:42:27 Bike: I just need to format that }-ful part, but otherwise I think everything else is fine. 18:42:28 I just wanted to be happy, for once 18:42:41 is this in the topic 18:42:44 Roujo: it's a temporary maintenance measure. 18:42:46 Bike: it is. 18:42:50 But apparently, I'm not even enough for you to do that 18:42:59 Who will be enough, boily? 18:43:04 Who will you change for? 18:43:09 (inb4 root) 18:43:21 Roujo: uhm... my SO, I guess? 18:43:58 Roujo: tu peux toujours aussi faire un tour à soir à La Récréation (coin St-Denis / Ontario). y'a une soirée jeux organisée pour le festival OUMF. 18:44:05 Heh =P 18:44:22 J'aime bien les envolées pseudo-lyriques 18:44:22 boily: "The People Wisom"? 18:45:11 Bike: yes? should I have titled the chapter “The Moving Thingies Wisdom”? 18:45:32 is it not "Wisdom" 18:45:39 boily: J'ai un peu un souper avec ma SO, en fait =P 18:45:47 Bike: oh. right. stupid typo. 18:45:57 'faut dégeler le poulet et tout 18:46:09 also, ais's quotes at least aren't all newlined, oh no 18:46:20 Roujo: dans ce cas là, m'a te souhaiter un bon dégelage bien romantique et tout et tout :D 18:46:35 Bike: I know, it was only a first attempt. I'm handreformatting everything. 18:46:40 ouch. 18:47:00 bah. only a kiloquote all in all. nothing too long. 18:47:13 boily: Le poulet, c'est pour demain. Ce soir, c'est du saumon qui a mariné toute la journée. =3 18:47:25 Roujo: oooooooooooh! yummy! 18:50:12 -!- conehead has joined. 18:51:33 `? quicksilver 18:51:35 quicksilver? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:51:35 | 18:51:35 º¯`\o 18:51:52 hmm... obscure people are archæologically referenced in antique quotes. 18:52:52 Do you know of Z-Comp? 18:52:54 like itidus? 18:53:30 Bike: I was there when itidus was. I'm talking even more earlier in the Early Times. 18:53:50 that's earlier than me so it probably didn't actually happen 18:53:55 hopefully this makes things easier for you. 18:54:14 I'm used to things not existing. you know, Canada and all that sort of thing. 18:54:26 ~duck z-comp 18:54:27 --- No relevant information 18:55:06 If you want to enter Z-Comp then you have to enter by Saturday, 28 Sep 2013, 07:14:36 PM EDT. Do so if you are interested to make a computer game for Z-machine. There is two ways to enter, either make account in ifMUD and fill the form, or just write a message to me about your entry and I will put it in for you. 18:56:16 Are you interest to write computer games following the limitation of Z-machine? 18:56:49 The current theme (which is optional, and can be conjunctive or disjunctive at your choice) is: Richardson fire // 2009-10 Leicester City F.C. season // Merciful to gibbering mouthers and the other monsters 18:57:14 The first two are random Wikipedia article titles. The third is from a file I wrote myself (it is secret). 18:58:23 -!- ff34 has joined. 18:58:44 `relcome ff34 18:58:47 ​ff34: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:59:04 Do you have a color computer? 18:59:17 zzo38: I already visited your muddy apartment. the z-compo sounds very interesting, but I fear my free time is quite limited :( 18:59:36 my computer is a thinkpad. I fear it has no colour. 18:59:54 -!- xxx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:00:14 boily: Ah. Well, it is recurring (with different themes each time, although the themes from my list will be eventually repeated if they weren't used yet in a submitted game) 19:01:58 Do you know when you do have time? 19:02:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:02:42 boily: Did you see all of the rooms in my ifMUD apartment yet though? 19:03:46 when the time gets grasped, it will be had. a carp a day, and a pickled salmon. 19:04:04 zzo38: exploring MUDs is even more time consuming than seeing everything in Riven. 19:04:38 That doesn't help about the time. Do you know approximately the time in terms of calendar, perhaps? 19:06:36 December at the earliest. 19:06:54 Do you like this theme or do you like a different theme? 19:08:22 I like the fire, the mouthers, but my general knowledge of Leicester is quite limited. 19:09:03 That is OK; you needn't use all of them (or any of them); combine them for a challenge or just use a single one if you prefer 19:09:43 firebreathing mouthers from outer space... RECYCLED IN SPACE!!! 19:10:29 cat boily | echo > boily 19:13:10 I have decided to make this theme file public anyways http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/zcomptheme.txt 19:13:31 `? GreyKnight 19:13:33 GreyKnight? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:13:34 | 19:13:34 º¯`\o 19:13:46 another defunct artefact from olden times. 19:14:37 http://www.reddit.com/user/GreyKnight 19:14:49 One comment, two years ago 19:15:55 you won't find me on reddit :P 19:16:25 Oh god 19:16:26 ___ 19:16:27 ^^ 19:16:53 ___? 19:16:54 Bravo pour la rébellion 19:17:04 C'est toujours bien, se rebeller dans /r/___ 19:17:08 ah! :D 19:17:20 -!- Bike has joined. 19:17:30 isn't greyknight the one from ireland 19:17:57 boily: Do you like any of these themes? 19:18:48 zzo38: I... think you asked me that one already. tdh, twh, hth, and a good dose of déjà vu. 19:19:16 I did write the same question but the context is different now so it is a different kind of question really 19:19:45 oh. contextually, yes. /r/___ is quite original, and I've yet to meet somebody from Ireland. 19:20:15 @tell cpressey I'm gel-ing your aloofness. 19:20:15 Consider it noted. 19:20:17 I mean the file I just made public 19:20:53 -!- ff34 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:21:36 zzo38: oh. that link went straight through my blind spot. lemme check that... 19:21:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:14 @tell zzo38 “Automynorcagrammatical” what the fungot... I like that one. 19:22:14 Consider it noted. 19:22:14 boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there it is, in case he doesn't want you to the ancients, right. some numbers, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, 19:43:42 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:44:34 btw, how's jsvine's II going? 19:48:29 I don't know but maybe fungot 19:48:29 olsner: more simply put: siod sucks as a general purpose ( similar, and i'd like to see that mystical forest powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction to theoretical computer, fnord of the fnord here, just above me, asked me to do that in the " better" language 19:48:35 mtve: are you still idling? kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty... 19:49:21 @tell jsvine siod, mystical forest powers, introduction impacts and some fnords. 19:49:22 Consider it noted. 19:50:32 time for the Daily LaTeX Question: anyone ever did big O notation? 19:50:34 Some what? 19:50:44 fnords 19:50:49 Roujo: a fnord. basic unit of “you didn't see that”. 19:50:50 Nah, it never came up 19:50:55 A what? 19:50:59 I don't get it 19:51:21 the fnord is the quintessential invisible word. if you see it, then you don't. 19:52:02 But I use "the" all the time 19:52:07 And still see it 19:53:28 * boily facepalms 19:53:55 * boily lobs a whole pineapple over at Roujo's head. 19:54:06 Roujo: you fiend. 19:54:10 the fnord is one of the first visible signs of invisibility 19:54:59 boily: <3 19:56:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:06:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:11:27 is the plural of hiatus hiati? 20:11:59 Hiatusesii 20:12:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:13:10 olsner, if you're being pedantic it's "hiatus" 20:13:28 but that's the same as the singular 20:13:52 Yeah, Latin is a weird language and English ate a lot of its weirdness 20:14:06 "hiatuses" is acceptable in English 20:14:42 one hiatu, two hiatus, three hiatuses. 20:15:58 and then four hiatusesu, five hiatusesus, six hiatuseses? 20:17:33 olsner, you are getting the hang of this 20:18:01 So we just wait until suffixirth 20:18:36 -!- Bike has joined. 20:19:56 `? irthative 20:19:58 irthative? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:19:58 | 20:19:58 º¯`\o 20:20:05 "hiatuses" is "your best bet" here 20:20:52 nooodl, unless you're against a pedant 20:20:56 or maybe "breaks" 20:21:04 olsner, if anyone tells you "hiati", they are wrong 20:21:17 Taneb: nah you just ignore dumb people hth 20:21:31 `quote pedant 20:21:33 187) ... come to think of it, 20:21:59 i'm thinking of examples where "englishifying" a latin word, grammatically, sounds really bad... 20:22:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:35 imo "matrixes" is weird? 20:23:06 matrii? 20:23:17 matrices is the usual plural, no? 20:23:19 yes 20:23:37 matrix means uterus in latin? ok then 20:23:50 and in spanish (or something like it) 20:23:50 yay only spam in my inbox today 20:23:51 also "indices", "vertices". whereas "indexes" and "vertixes" are kinda dumb-looking 20:24:00 um, vertexes 20:24:09 wiktionary says the latin plural of "mātrīx" is "mātrīcēs" 20:24:11 so, um. 20:24:15 what's the plural of asterix? 20:24:16 pick a different example? 20:24:20 asterices? 20:24:28 ateripodes 20:24:34 asteripodes, rather 20:24:47 probably asteripoda 20:25:07 Bike: i don't see the issue 20:25:20 i'm not talking about "-us" -> "-i" in specific, if that's what you mean 20:25:23 (makes it so quick to read, you know) 20:25:30 nooodl: you're not "englishifying" anything, the latin was originally "matrixes" 20:25:46 Bike: um _no_. 20:25:47 but it's not, it's martices 20:25:49 *matrices 20:26:09 -x -> -ces is pretty regular 3rd declension. 20:26:23 (you can also get -ges, though.) 20:26:38 wait, i misread. 20:26:41 wow, fuck, nevermind. bye 20:26:47 byeke 20:26:48 cu 20:27:04 if that's a *de*clension, is -ces -> -x a clension? 20:27:13 `pastelogs [Bb]yeke 20:27:25 something tells me i can't be original here 20:27:34 olsner, I think it's an aclension 20:27:53 dedeclension 20:27:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3855 20:28:09 olsner: i decline to answer that. 20:28:09 oh god i am. amazing 20:28:20 code clension 20:29:16 `run fgrep '[a-z]' bin/* 20:29:19 No output. 20:29:30 `run fgrep '[A-Z]' bin/* 20:29:32 No output. 20:29:46 ok then 20:29:54 `run fgrep grep bin/* 20:29:55 bin/anonlog: grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ bin/anonlog: echo "$file:$(grep "<.*>" $file | shuf -n 1)" | sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ bin/define: grep -A 3 'Definitions of' | \ bin/etymology: grep -A 100 ']'"$1" | \ bin/google: grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ bin/js:isOpenJDK=`$JAVA_CMD -version 2>&1 | gre 20:30:21 oh whatever. 20:30:31 hmm, it seems declension does mean something about bending, which is the swedish word for it 20:31:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:31:17 * oerjan was briefly wondering whether the grep localization madness from yesterday affected any HackEgo commands. 20:31:45 I missed grep localization madness? awwww 20:31:53 olsner: basically: 20:32:04 `run echo TEST | grep '[a-z]' 20:32:06 TEST 20:32:46 but... 20:32:50 why? 20:33:31 basically, grep [.-.] uses the local collation order to determine which letters are in between - so when that collation order is case insensitive, things get included unexpectedly. 20:33:49 `run echo ZZZ | grep '[a-z]' 20:33:51 No output. 20:33:57 weird 20:33:59 now guess why this _doesn't_ print :P 20:34:56 `run echo YYY | grep '[a-z]' 20:34:57 YYY 20:35:16 (btw you can still use [:upper:] and [:lower:] slightly more portably.) 20:35:21 because z < Z? 20:35:24 yep 20:36:06 brr, grep shouldn't use locales 20:36:08 I use grep in scripts and don't want it to be weird 20:36:14 `run echo ZZZ | grep -Finr '[a-z]' 20:36:15 No output. 20:36:23 `run echo ZZZ | grep -Einr '[a-z]' 20:36:25 1:ZZZ 20:36:37 `run echo ééé | grep -Einr '[a-z]' 20:36:39 1:ééé 20:36:44 neat. 20:37:02 olsner: just unset all the environment variables, _so_ simple. 20:37:20 `run locale 20:37:22 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 20:37:52 `run echo øøø | grep -Ei '[a-z]' 20:37:54 ​øøø 20:37:57 -!- dan200 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:38:06 `run echo ẍẍẍ | grep -Ei '[a-z]' 20:38:07 ​ẍẍẍ 20:38:30 using -i doesn't exactly demonstrate the weirdness 20:38:43 `run echo ẍẍẍ | grep -E '[a-z]' 20:38:44 ​ẍẍẍ 20:38:51 `run echo ẍẍẍ | grep '[a-z]' 20:38:53 ​ẍẍẍ 20:39:08 `run echo ꝑꝑꝑ | grep '[a-z]' 20:39:10 No output. 20:39:12 ah! 20:40:38 olsner: oh actually LC_ALL takes precedence over the rest, so just set that. 20:40:51 `ord ẍẍẍ 20:40:53 7821 7821 7821 20:41:23 actually, I don't mind if weird localized people get broken results, they should just learn english and set their locale to C 20:41:37 olsner: bleh. 20:41:44 (that was a norwegian bleh, mind you.) 20:41:51 boily: are you weird and localized? 20:42:18 olsner: définitivement. 20:42:26 -!- Bike has joined. 20:42:36 boily: förträffligt 20:43:24 the approximants. they disagree with my tongue. 20:43:43 what approximants 20:45:04 wbike 20:45:13 hoerjan 20:45:40 right. approximants in Danish, weird vowels in Swedish, and I'm confused by the nynorsk/bokmål dichotomy. 20:45:55 looking at the grep man page, it actually describes this [a-z] weirdness quite explicitly. 20:46:47 nynorsk has slightly more interesting vowels. 20:48:18 I think förträffligt starts with [fœ̞ˈʈ] 20:48:34 for example, en:the arabs = bm:araberne = nn:arabarane 20:49:57 = dk:araberne = sv:arabarna , MAYBE 20:50:10 sv:araberna 20:50:20 oh. 20:50:30 su:? 20:51:37 and while we're at it, do we have a local Iceland representant? 20:52:03 not that i know of. 20:52:23 boily: I don't know what the Sundanese word is 20:52:44 shocking 20:52:49 sundanese? 20:53:07 ~duck sundance 20:53:07 Sundance Resort is a ski resort located 13 miles northeast of Provo, Utah on Mount Timpanogos in Utah's Wasatch Range. 20:53:17 Bike: ↑ 20:53:24 of course 20:53:29 but I do know that sundanese is one of those languages that calls itself bahasa/basa something 20:53:37 boily: also re approximants: rødgrød med fløde 20:54:05 oerjan: the canonical approximant shibboleth. 20:54:09 yep 20:55:06 also swedish has the sje-sound. 20:55:18 oh, the curvy-taily h. 20:56:16 we have [œ̃], which even metropolitan French has lost. 20:56:24 and many norwegian dialects, including mine, have the "thick" l (it's also in some swedish.) 20:56:37 oerjan: thick l, as in Klingon? 20:56:51 and both norwegian and swedish are full of retroflexes. 20:57:14 boily: i am not familiar with the klingon pronunciation. 20:57:22 `quote klingon 20:57:24 923) as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:57:53 i don't think norwegian thick l is close to either of them. 20:58:01 is this the thick l? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_lateral_approximant 20:58:09 it's a retroflex lateral flap, or something like that. 20:59:57 * boily does «lll... llllll... *choke* ghlllll...» 21:00:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:00:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_flap apparently it is 21:00:40 it sounds very un-/ɭ/-like... 21:01:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_phonology#Consonants lists both your and the flap and says they're allophones. 21:01:11 *yours 21:01:19 wait 21:01:21 I'd consider the retroflex flap the thick one 21:01:31 the one I linked is just an l I think 21:02:19 well, the one you linked is the one you'd expect from -rl- sandhi in a dialect which has retroflexes but _not_ the genuine flap. 21:03:21 hmm, yeah, it should be according to the text, but the sample didn't sound very 'rl'y 21:03:21 ah, i think i use it instead of the flap in some positions, like "forlag". 21:03:34 seems Québec French and Japanese are the only (at least semi-major) languages which have unvoiced vowels. 21:05:17 elliott: you are conal. 21:06:08 elliott: you are also completely insane. 21:06:32 editting those quotes by hand reveals a *lot* of information on y'all. 21:07:02 what is revealed about i, bike 21:07:47 eeeeh... I recall reformatting your quotes earlier today. vaguely. 21:08:12 you are Bike, I guess. also, I nobody should touch your eyes again. last time was scary. 21:08:23 s/, I n/, n/ 21:08:35 Bike: your complete disregard of english grammar 21:08:38 dan 21:08:39 g 21:08:59 is it revealed that i should do my vhdl assignment 21:09:14 Bike: disregard vhdl, acquire insanity. 21:09:51 i was already reading about auditory hallucinations earlier!! 21:10:01 who said that 21:10:44 `quote hallucinations 21:10:46 No output. 21:10:50 `quote auditory 21:10:51 No output. 21:11:01 `quote hearing things 21:11:03 No output. 21:11:17 it seems we have nothing on this topic 21:11:33 maybe you hallucinated it? 21:11:42 not... i wasn't reading them /here/ 21:12:20 well, if it was hallucinated you didn't really read at all, anywhere 21:15:07 `run echo "You are just imagining this wisdom entry." >wisdom/hallucination 21:15:11 No output. 21:16:11 i said auditory 21:16:15 gosh. 21:16:24 Bike: the wisdom *is* auditory. 21:16:40 when boily gets finished with it, anyway. 21:18:53 oerjan: just went through elliott's quotes. the pdf is updated. that was one hardcore reformatting session. 21:19:00 auditory wisdom will have fun with `? szoup 21:19:12 igen. 21:19:17 * boily szmackzs olsner with a wooden laddle. 21:19:31 ~duck igen 21:19:31 --- No relevant information 21:19:59 oerjan: igen! igen? jag missade första gången isåfall 21:20:20 itt swedish-hungarian puns 21:20:30 oh. 21:20:49 Roujo: t'as pas un jeu de mots poche avec du hongrois à travers qui traine dans le coin, par hasard? 21:21:34 something about words for traversing a train of coins? 21:21:50 boily: i recommend using something with "harmadik" 21:21:59 ~duck harmadik 21:21:59 --- No relevant information 21:22:25 oerjan: I think I missed the hungarian part of that pun 21:23:53 olsner: «jeu de mots»: pun. «poche»: sl. of bad quality. «à travers»: sl. through, mixed in. «traine»: to be left about. «coin»: corner, random place, spot. 21:24:03 olsner: igen, hogy ezt tetted. 21:24:11 `quote hogy 21:24:13 33) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 21:24:36 the szoup quote was harder to find than I expected because it fails to even mention the hungarian word for soup 21:25:03 olsner: ...because that is the one word i replaced XD... 21:26:05 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:26:32 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 21:27:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: La banane est un fruit nocturne.). 21:27:24 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:56 `? banana 21:27:58 banana? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:59 | 21:27:59 o/`¯º 21:29:21 elliott: you de-voiced me 21:29:39 it seems hungarian now only wants two hogy in that sentence 21:30:20 i am uncertain about the hogy in my answer above, too. 21:30:57 of course the joke, back then, was that hogy is a grammatical word with several different meanings. 21:31:19 well, part of it, anyway. 21:31:27 "hogy hogy hogy hogy" gives me "how to make" 21:31:35 but any more than that is just "that that that that that..." 21:31:58 i got "how to make it" 21:32:09 statistical translation is pretty funny... Google used to translate Latin "quid pro quo" as "What happens in Vegas" 21:32:39 oh wait, the capitalization was different 21:32:59 kmc: heh that almost makes some kind of sense 21:35:28 A harmadik ember is apparently the correct translation of a certain film title. 21:36:22 http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%9EHarmadik_ember%E2%80%9D-%C3%A9rv 21:36:49 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/WWII.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/WWI-re.png 21:37:07 it's weird how one-sided the world wars both look 21:37:16 what? 21:37:23 oh, the powers 21:37:38 yes 21:37:57 why is burma labeled as axis but not france? 21:38:52 oversight, i guess 21:39:08 same with ethiopia, etc etc. 21:41:03 um that's thailand, not burma. 21:41:26 and ethiopia was invaded by italy. 21:41:33 as was libya. 21:41:34 I guess the blue dots are countries that got invaded and occupied by the Axis during the war? 21:41:37 looks less one-sided then 21:41:47 god damn it, do i seriously not still have southeast asia straight ;_; 21:41:51 was there much action in South America, or the southern half of Africa? 21:42:04 oerjan, no, that's burma 21:42:11 Madagascar got invaded by the British 21:42:11 no oerjan's right 21:42:15 he is 21:42:23 they both look the same except mirrored! 21:42:25 burma just has a dot 21:42:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:42:30 what. 21:42:38 also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_LZ_104#Africa_flight 21:42:42 (WW I naturally) 21:43:01 anyway this thing counts manchuria as axis too, so i don't get the difference between "axis" and "occupied" 21:43:15 i guess you could say ethiopia and manchuria were invaded before the war, but that's kinda arbitrary 21:43:23 manchuria was — right 21:43:41 it's not particularly, where else do you draw the line 21:44:02 well it's more about where you draw the line of when the war started, no? 21:44:08 right that's what i meant 21:44:16 some people count the sino-japanese war as part of wwii, and so on 21:44:48 Bike: you can claim you were confused by bangladesh not being a separate country 21:45:09 never actually realised burma and bangladesh shared a border 21:45:24 oerjan: no, i really should have this straight by now, it's pathetic. 21:45:31 Phantom_Hoover: burma is very mean to bangladeshi migrants. 21:46:00 and also people who are de facto burmese but they say are bangladeshi sooooo 21:46:48 hey, _someone_ has to do the job of breaking the illusion that buddhists are more peaceful than muslims. 21:46:52 that bangladesh is bad enough that people want to leave for burma doesn't really surprise me, but it's still a grim juxtaposition 21:47:14 "By 1941 it became illegal, among other things, to ridicule those who attempted to promote national customs" sounds enforceable 21:47:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:47:55 oerjan: that's... one way to think about it :V 21:48:58 Phantom_Hoover: bangladesh turns back refugees from arakan too. it's kind of shitty all around! 21:49:39 hm, maybe my problem is that arakan looks kind of like thailand 21:49:39 that doesn't surprise me either (even before i found my way to the wp page on the rohingya) 21:50:38 with that little spiny outpost in the lower right, i mean, except thailand's is more curvy 21:50:51 well, i guess burma looks like that too. 21:50:54 anyway. pathetic 21:59:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:04:54 -!- Bike has joined. 22:09:21 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 22:10:21 `run echo Test *test* test 22:10:23 Test testing test 22:10:27 Roujo: ^ 22:10:51 Roujo: it only worked the first time because you hadn't made the testing file yet 22:12:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:12:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:14:07 hello, future oerjan <-- hi 22:14:44 hey! 22:14:49 so how was the future? 22:14:53 boring 22:14:54 :O 22:14:59 oh 22:15:05 we can call it the past now then 22:15:07 i feel let down. 22:15:30 Bike: so i take it you've been lobbied against then 22:15:35 Bike: i haven't got to your real abuse yet, will probably punish you afterwards 22:15:49 D: 22:16:03 what happened 22:16:26 i don't know, i haven't got to it yet 22:16:27 the empire of bike happened 22:16:31 it ws glorious 22:17:44 oh so you're still the future oerjan 22:17:54 it's not in the past yet 22:19:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:19:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:23:15 Bike: looks like it was cut short 22:23:41 well, elliott gave me op back for some reason. 22:23:46 but the empire's spirit was dead by then. 22:24:03 the ghost of empires past 22:24:11 * Bike weeps for his power 22:24:29 ...ok now i'm imagining a christmas carol with scrooge replaced by hitler. 22:24:52 Ok then... 22:25:51 `run WeLcOmE OriginalOldMan | rainbow 22:25:54 ​OrIgInAlOlDmAn: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 22:26:21 Whoa 22:26:42 that was a particularly light choice of colors today 22:27:09 `run relcome OriginalOldMan | rainbow 22:27:12 ​OriginalOldMan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:27:21 hm 22:27:28 `cat bin/relcome 22:27:29 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainbow 22:27:30 was hoping for something more disastrous 22:28:14 shachaf: rainbow is designed to potentially fill up the line with color chars, so repeating it should have little effect 22:28:33 oh wait 22:29:06 * shachaf waits 22:29:07 `run echo Testing | rainbow | rainbow #This might work 22:29:09 ​1208T07e05s14ti14n08g10 22:29:12 yep 22:29:22 Yes, that's the kind of thing I was hoping to see. 22:29:40 "Testing" is too short for rainbow to fill up the line with colors 22:29:57 `run ? Bike | rainbow | rainbow 22:30:00 ​06B1i06ke11 8is4 f10r2o8m13 06Lu2xe11m02b4o08u09rg11. 22:30:06 cool 22:30:13 since it doesn't do redundant color changes in sequence 22:30:23 `run ? Bike | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow 22:30:26 ​0507B02ik089e098 i140s 610f14ro028m 1213L1107u409xe0305mb11o034u08rg04.403 22:30:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 22:30:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:30:29 is there a power operation in bash 22:30:35 what happened 22:30:41 god is here 22:30:45 `run echo $((2**10)) 22:30:46 1024 22:30:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:55 i mean composition power. 22:31:02 Bike: it won't get longer once it has filled up the line length (350 bytes) with color codes + original text 22:31:09 kmc: you can't go voicing people like that 22:31:12 why not 22:31:15 it scares the children 22:31:22 we have children here?!?!? fuck 22:31:39 Is elliott a children? 22:31:46 not anymore, by law 22:31:57 everybody flirt with elliott at once 22:32:10 c.c 22:32:21 elliott: Me love you long time. 22:32:29 great flirting, 9.5 / 10 22:32:58 (I may not be the best judge of such things) 22:33:01 elliott, you're a piece of shit and i hate you 22:33:05 kmc, rate me on my negging 22:33:11 Bike: i don't think so, it doesn't seem particularly useful 22:33:23 PH: I think you're supposed to be more subtle than that 22:33:26 oerjan: it's useful for rerererererainbowing! 22:33:45 not sure PUAs understand the concept of "subtlety" 22:33:52 or the concept of uh. anything 22:34:00 like “Me, I like a girl with a couple extra pounds on her” ? 22:34:00 PUA? 22:34:07 nothing wrong with that PH 22:34:17 let's not talk about PUA though 22:34:19 that's just depressing 22:34:22 good plan 22:34:27 i was relying on elliott to get the reference 22:34:29 he has failed me 22:34:30 with my voice, i make it law 22:34:30 I think I agree with kmc 22:34:36 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike. 22:34:40 oerjan: Proto-Uto-Aztecan language 22:34:44 uh wow!! 22:35:04 Well, I suppose if I'm going to flirt with elliott I should determine how androphilic he is. 22:35:17 elliott: On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you like the cock? 22:35:37 i happen to know elliott likes coq 22:37:32 oh so that's what it means. 22:37:59 yes. it means cock 22:38:12 `thanks Bike 22:38:14 Thanks, Bike. Thike. 22:39:28 also, i have a hunch elliott doesn't like this subject, so let's talk about prepromorphisms or something. 22:39:44 Phantom_Hoover: have you tried possing instead 22:39:48 * kmc makes a note to use the word "androphile" more often 22:39:49 i hear it's p. good 22:39:59 also, i'm hungry -> 22:40:27 (the joke was that it was an excerpt from a lyttle lytton entry, hth) 22:40:50 * Bike stuffs Phantom_Hoover into a locker 22:41:18 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:42:16 my friend was trying to think of single straight guys he knows in New York but I think by "straight" he meant "interested in women" and by "single" he meant "available" 22:42:33 lol 22:43:04 kmc: So, *not* excluding bi guys then. 22:43:09 yeah 22:45:10 there's that tshirt "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" 22:45:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:46:12 it's funny how five years ago I hadn't heard of any one being bi but today nearly a third of my friends say they are 22:46:19 heh 22:46:34 different friends or the same ones as five years ago? 22:46:44 entranced by your organs no doubt 22:46:59 Bike: Oh baby, gimme some more of that liver. 22:47:05 c.c 22:47:13 are you suggesting I might have accessed a different social circle recently? 22:47:38 pikhq: shower your lymph all over me 22:48:07 Koen_: social circles do tend to shift over time, yeah 22:48:25 I'm just wondering if the trend is people you already knew telling you they're bi, or you meeting new people, or both 22:48:43 are you truly the same person you were five years ago 22:48:47 imo that's the real question 22:49:10 kmc I think the trend is that more people are bi today than five years ago 22:49:31 a lot of my friends have at least /some/ interest in both directions... whether or not to self-identify as bi based on that is pretty personal and arbitrary 22:49:40 also maybe my friends are (in average) older than my friends were (in average) five years ago, and thus have more sexual experience 22:49:45 imo self-identification considered harmful 22:49:45 mm 22:50:10 well I had never thought that age might just be it 22:50:35 I had a feeling it was somewhat more fashionable to be bi today than it was before 22:50:48 that's a loaded way to put it 22:50:59 but maybe, yeah 22:51:17 another way to put it would be that there's less pressure to hide it now 22:51:32 well that's not exactly saying the same thing 22:52:02 it's not 22:52:08 I once heard someone say that there was effectively less pressure, and that saying it had anything to do with being fashionable was highly homophobic 22:52:26 I don't know, I still get the feeling that there's just as much negativity as there used to be... 22:52:38 it really depends on the context 22:52:41 but there's also more resistance Fiora 22:52:42 who you interact with 22:52:54 bisexual people still "get all the fun", are "sex fiends", are "just trying to look good for the guys", or just plain don't exist 22:53:22 there's that tshirt "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" 22:53:49 "Look good for the guys" ohhh my 22:53:54 when you say "just trying to look good for the guys" are you talking about bi people in general or about "lesbians pretending to be somewhat available to guys"? 22:53:55 my first response to this was 'ah i get it, the wearer is female' then i realised why that was stuped 22:53:58 *stupid 22:54:06 Koen_: I'm not sure it's inherently homophobic to say there's an element of fashion to it, but as soon as you start telling people that their self-identification X is wrong and they're just doing it for reason Y, that's pretty dangerous ground 22:54:16 Koen_: the stereotype that bisexual women are actually straight girls trying to look "hot" 22:54:18 Koen_: about bi women being described as being straight women pretending to be bi because men think it's hot 22:54:25 ohhhhhh okay 22:54:25 Koen_: Probably more hetero women pretending to be somewhat available to girls, because "lesbians are hawt" 22:54:34 yes right 22:54:38 I mean, some of them are, though 22:54:43 it's more about applying that stereotype to all bisexual people 22:54:54 also, you don't have to be that sexually attracted to someone to have fun making out with them 22:54:55 it's still very common and generally results in bi women getting flak from both straight /and/ gay women 22:54:57 kmc: well I just observed that all girl friends I had who said they were bi happened to have a boyfriend 22:55:30 though I guess statistically for bi girls there are more boyfriends available than girlfriends 22:55:38 it's not, like, fraudulant to make out with someone you don't want to fuck 22:55:53 plz turn in makeout license 22:56:00 Yup, the dating pool for bi people is weighted as heck. 22:56:01 Koen_: sexual interest is different from relationship interest, too 22:56:10 aw 22:56:20 are you suggesting they might be cheating on their boyfriend? 22:56:21 Koen_: also, if they have a girlfriend but say they're bi, they will probably attract quite a bit more unwanted interest 22:56:50 because men take "I am bi and have a girlfriend" as code for "I want a man" 22:57:15 -!- ^v has joined. 22:57:17 Koen_: it's not cheating if he's OK with it 22:57:35 Koen_: but it's also fine to identify as sexually interested in women, without currently having your hand in someone's vagina 22:57:53 it's also okay to call yourself bisexual even if you've /never had sex/ 22:57:55 pikhq: actually I have always wondered how it was possible that so many gay friends of mine had boyfriends - I mean my gay friend in couple / gay friend not in couple is higher than my straight male friend in couple / straight male friend ratio 22:58:13 though statistically it should be easier for a straight guy to find a girlfriend 22:59:05 kmc: I beg to differ, a lot of guys are not ok when they don't currently have their hand or other body part in someone's vagina 22:59:10 heh 22:59:15 *snerk* 22:59:30 Maybe there's more to it than just dating pool size though. 23:01:19 maybe your friends who are gay don't feel the need to advertise this fact to you unless they're dating a guy 23:01:41 "Have I mentioned I'm gay today?" :) 23:01:41 oh 23:01:59 pikhq: yeah I felt very weird when I learned my cousin was gay 23:02:24 Fiora: imo what's with the "men do X" thing 23:02:52 pikhq: because I was so surprised not to know that already 23:04:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:05:37 kmc: I hadn't thought about that 23:07:06 the use of the term "cheating" to describe any non-monogamous situation really pisses me off... cheating = lying, breaking rules, etc. 23:07:23 if everyone involved is aware of what's happening and is okay with it, /that's not cheating/ 23:07:24 Yeah. 23:07:27 this happens more often than you might expect 23:07:39 Fiora: it's also okay to call yourself bisexual even if you've /never had sex/ <<< I realize I would never call myself anything anyway so that wouldn't apply 23:07:55 of course as a society we make an exception for "single" men, who are allowed to sleep around as much as they want without it being "cheating" 23:08:02 There is a term for "uninterested in sex" FWIW. :P 23:08:21 kmc: as far as I know I have exactly one friend who's into that 23:08:43 (either that or other friends want to keep that a secret) 23:09:09 * pikhq is also some sort of non-monogamous... 23:09:32 I have remarkably few personal secrets... 23:09:40 keeping secrets is too much effort 23:09:44 I'm kinda bad at 'em. 23:09:47 plus secretly (!) I like to brag 23:09:56 kmc: also note that "non-monogamous" implies one man and several women, not the other way around 23:10:08 Koen_: no, it definitely does not 23:10:15 wait 23:10:25 that is a traditional meaning of the word "polygamy" yeah 23:10:29 did you just break what I knew about vocabulary? :( 23:10:29 not the only meaning, either 23:10:33 but I would avoid that word for that reason 23:10:36 (and for others) 23:11:01 -gamy is the a suffix for "marriage"... 23:11:07 when I was in highschool we had a Nigerian teacher who came to talk about the differences between France and Niger 23:11:24 polygyny, Koen_ 23:11:26 he began by introducing himself and ended by answering our questions 23:11:30 It just happens that people think multiple women when discussing non-monogamous things. 23:11:30 you're thinking of polygyny 23:11:33 (another reason to not keep secrets: I'm in a position due to various privileges and life circumstances to say "fuck 'em" to the people who would hate me for these things, rather than being afraid of them) 23:11:39 he's introduction included "I'm monogamous" 23:11:52 so one of the question was "is having several wives legal in Niger?" 23:12:00 yes "polygyny" and "polyandry" are specific anthropological terms 23:12:16 to which the teacher answered by explaining why that was okay and why the student shouldn't be shocked 23:12:23 "graph minor isomorphic to K_5" less used in the literature 23:12:29 then the student asked, "is it legal for a woman to have several husbands in Niger?" 23:12:36 the teacher was very shocked 23:12:45 "HOW WOULD THAT MAKE ANY SENSE" 23:13:01 Did somebody say "gangbang"? 23:13:07 you, just now 23:13:12 \o/ 23:13:28 people have double standards about practically *everything* involving sex and relationships 23:13:32 myndzi why hast thou forsaken us 23:13:32 it's kind of remarkable 23:14:12 sometimes the double standards are clearly in the interests of the patriarchy 23:14:15 sometimes they are just baffling 23:16:06 Sex in general is best described as "complicated". 23:16:18 award for most fatuous statement goes to 23:16:45 -!- Bike has joined. 23:16:59 I can never hope to understand it 23:18:08 pikhq: yeah... but I would much rather have the complications that come from people actually feeling strongly about each other, over the complications that come from following arbitrary rules that never made any sense to me or the people i'm with 23:18:09 Phantom_Hoover: pikhq just has too short nick 23:18:20 to me these are fairly different in kind 23:19:10 I will probably not understand why monogamy is such a compelling default to most of the population... but the same goes for theism, and lots of other things 23:19:30 of course people are plenty bad at actually following the rules of monogamy, or of your theistic religion of choice 23:21:23 depends on "the population". historically (institutionalized) polygyny has been more common than monogamy 23:21:29 that's true 23:21:32 historically and worldwide. w/e. 23:21:50 I mean among people I'm generally pretty close to culturally 23:23:09 yeah i just felt like mentioning that. 23:23:21 since it moves you to cultural norms rather than "human norms". 23:23:43 kmc: maybe at least to me the appeal comes from the idea of like, having a person you can cling to and rely on and know they'll be there, and you'll be there for them, and that you'll always be their priority? 23:24:33 "i'll never understand theism" is a pretty internet atheisty statement to me tbh 23:25:31 it's a little easy to shrug off monogamy when you feel like you can get through all of life's challenges on your own, but not everyone feels that way... 23:25:34 I'll never understand why people have war over religions 23:25:43 they don't, generally. 23:25:53 any more than the pig war was about a pig. 23:26:01 hth. 23:26:49 also holy christ circuit design programs are complicated, fucking hell 23:27:03 as in ones for drawing circuits? 23:27:10 verilog 23:27:18 ah 23:27:41 this is the program that i had to download as a five GB tarball, have i mentioned that here 23:27:52 verilog sounds really cool to me but i've never really gotten into it 23:29:05 Koen_, when did you stop being arc btw 23:29:11 right now i'm doing the super cool circuit design of "connecting a switch to a light" 23:29:22 -!- CADD has joined. 23:30:01 Phantom_Hoover: I was Arc_Koen because there was that guy on freenode who owned the Koen nick 23:30:03 "If using the DEPP interface uncomment lines 25-28" hoping this had to do with johnny 23:30:17 but I've recently decided I was the real Koen and didn't needed the Arc_ 23:30:32 is koen cognate with koan 23:30:34 -!- Solain has joined. 23:30:43 what's koan? 23:30:51 the zen thing, one assumes 23:31:13 what is the sound of one word cognating 23:32:12 i should probably find an emacs mode and ditch this thing 23:34:03 Fiora: yeah, good point... I don't feel like I can get through life's challenges alone, and I depend on a wonderful committed partner all the time 23:34:28 but it would also be totally unfair of me to expect her and her alone to satisfy all of my physical and emotional needs 23:34:34 (or vice versa) 23:34:39 in fact I think the stress of doing so would destroy our relationship 23:35:08 so I'm very glad that neither of us feels any pressure for that to be the case 23:35:11 I guess sex makes it compliated -_- 23:35:23 I think it's complicated either way, but yeah 23:35:35 but that's the whole physical needs thing right 23:35:41 sure but it's not only about that 23:35:42 well he said "emotional needs" 23:35:46 yep 23:36:06 i feel as tht i shouldnt be seeing be in this irc in this time of the night 23:36:12 *here 23:36:20 you can deal w/it 23:36:21 don't think monogamy entails exclusivity over 'emotional needs' really 23:36:40 yeah... I was thinking the same 23:36:41 that depends on who you ask 23:36:47 and what exactly you mean 23:36:48 but I guess ... yeah 23:36:56 "emotional cheating" is definitely a thing people talk about 23:37:03 facebook cyber-flirting 23:37:03 «If using the DEPP interface uncomment lines 25-28» have so little idea of what i'm doing 23:37:07 er wrong paste 23:37:10 twitter ultra-sexing 23:37:15 that's... emotional cheating? 23:37:18 well i don't understand that either, so assume i don't know anything about anything. 23:37:20 Bike: you better uncomment it 23:37:24 that is a fairly narrow use of the term 23:38:05 anyway most people would say that marriage is about more than sex, so I would assume they think monogamy is about more than sexual exclusivity too? 23:38:18 but the whole thing makes me go a bit :psyduck: 23:38:47 I guess it's about guaranteeing that both people will always view the other as their primary care and responsibility, emotionally and otherwise...? 23:39:01 I don't know, socially-defined constructs like that based around sex confuse me 23:41:04 start with two files. build. end with forty files and six subdirectories. 23:41:07 kmc, i think they probably mean you're meant to be emotionally invested in your partner, not rely on them exclusively 23:41:22 Bike, are the files archives 23:41:38 by the way I don't mean to imply that arrangements with only two people are bad or wrong (for anyone, or for myself) 23:41:41 nope 23:41:51 i don't know what most of them are, in fact. 23:42:11 for example, a .xrpt. 23:42:13 you can have such arrangements without having a rigid external rule that this is the only acceptable way to do anything ever 23:42:33 oh, it's "Xml RePorT" 23:42:34 excuse me for interupting your conversetion, but i found the medical expretise which consults bones and muscles, its called "orthopedics" in english. you can find more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_surgery; we have a more accurate name in hebrew though 23:42:46 BONES 23:42:49 CASH FOR BONES 23:42:55 MUSCLES FOR BONES 23:43:37 wow this is the pinout as csv 23:43:39 thanks 23:43:54 Solain: why are you telling us this 23:43:59 "T8,sw,IOB,IO_L31N_GCLK30_D15_2,INPUT,LVCMOS25*,2,,,,NONE,,UNLOCATED,NO,NONE," 23:44:01 Solain, you could've just asked us... 23:46:10 Huh, Solain is back 23:46:11 Heya 23:46:31 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:36 [19:37:10] twitter ultra-sexing 23:46:37 what 23:46:40 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:48 Roujo: totally not a thing I just made up 23:47:19 I mean, if we're talking about cheating, I'm pretty sure twitter ultra-sexing applies 23:47:27 "$2.77 × 10^15 + $3.99 shipping" yay amazon 23:47:34 Like, basic cheating. Not emotional cheating. 23:47:37 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:47:43 relationship advice: does following voidsexts constitute cheating 23:47:52 voidsexts? 23:47:59 what if you pixelate out your junk before you twitpic it to a congressman 23:48:13 public void sex(Relationship *arg) 23:48:14 #esoteric should totally write a relationship advice column 23:48:35 Roujo: https://twitter.com/voidsexts 23:48:39 what language uses 'public' that way and also has *-pointers? checkmate 23:48:48 Bike: Failing advice, I gave you some pointers... 23:49:08 boo 23:49:26 Bike: Huh. I don't think it counts, no 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:28] but it would also be totally unfair of me to expect her and her alone to satisfy all of my physical and emotional needs 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:33] (or vice versa) 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:39] in fact I think the stress of doing so would destroy our relationship 23:50:49 ++ 23:51:05 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:06 those insta messeges scared me 23:51:12 i don't think you need to paste three lines just to "++" in the future 23:51:22 Here's a cautionary tail, though 23:51:30 (Bike: There's more coming up) 23:51:36 I have to provide context and all 23:51:39 oh no 23:51:44 But yeah. Cautionary tail of sorts 23:51:56 That's the kind of relationship I build with my SO 23:52:00 "tale" 23:52:05 ... 23:52:08 Right 23:52:11 meow 23:52:14 (I'm tired) 23:52:26 (me2) 23:52:40 "Your SO doesn't have to fill every emotional need you have" 23:52:44 It worked, to a point 23:53:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:10 It worked well, no pressure and all, until we got to the last few months 23:53:30 When I realized that since I wasn't expecting her to fill any particular need, I found ways to fill them elsewhere 23:53:38 Which put her in a weird position in my mind 23:54:01 SO stands for significant other right? 23:54:05 Yup 23:54:21 I first thought of "soulmate" but that acronym is already taken I reckon 23:54:36 it's SO weird to see that term which i remember from old usenet 23:55:06 It seems that by trying not to put pressure on my SO to fill my needs, I just bypassed her for most of them 23:55:12 mm 23:55:31 So I ended up in a situation where she wasn't my go-to person for any non-physical need 23:56:03 Which lead to a not-so-nice situation where I was wondering what was special between us two 23:56:06 `url quotes 23:56:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes 23:56:19 Since most of what I needed, I could find elsewhere - and did 23:56:36 your SO(2) group 23:56:41 Roujo: It worked well, no pressure and all, until we got to the last few months <<< I read that as "we had a countdown-to-separation already in place and we reacting badly to it going under a few months 23:56:46 So yeah. The realization was recent (weeks, really), so I'm still recovering 23:56:55 Rofl =P 23:56:58 Not really, no 23:57:00 We're engaged =P 23:57:54 oh so that's actually a countdown-to-marriage! 23:58:02 I was close 23:58:08 Well, vaguely, yeah 23:58:13 t minus one million seconds 23:58:14 But there's no date yet, so not really 23:58:34 oh, that's eleven days 23:58:36 Anyway. We're still recovering and trying to get back close to one another 23:58:40 congrats on being married in eleven days 23:58:44 Heh =P 23:58:46 Thanks ^^ 2013-09-05: 00:00:02 So yeah. TL;DR: Wanting your SO to fill *some* of your emotional needs is healthier for me than not caring *who* fills them. IANALD, YMMV. 00:00:04 That is all 00:00:07 You may resume 00:00:10 why do journals without websites even exist 00:01:58 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go..."). 00:02:01 -!- Roujo has joined. 00:02:04 ... 00:02:08 smooth 00:02:11 Nothing happened mmmkay 00:02:29 Uh 00:02:37 As it turns out, I can just /clear my backlog 00:02:38 That's nice 00:04:09 good night everybody, goodbye and happy rosh hashana for everybody whose jewish 00:04:18 -!- Solain has left. 00:04:48 Roujo: thank you for sharing your cautionary tale 00:04:58 * kmc thinks about it more 00:05:04 also what is "LD" in "IANALD" 00:05:20 Love Doctor 00:05:27 haha 00:05:30 ^^ 00:05:32 lethal dose 00:05:35 will smith 00:05:40 im not a doctor when it comes to love 00:05:42 wait no that's WS 00:06:23 I think when you are close enough to someone you develop needs that are specific to them 00:06:33 like, I don't just want a hug, I want a hug /from her/ because we have all this context that makes it more meaningful 00:06:45 this could be true of multiple people in different ways, too 00:07:22 You want a hug /from multiple people/? 00:07:26 :3 00:07:59 they all just kind of encircle him 00:08:09 until he dies of heatstroke 00:08:20 then they rear a new queen in his place 00:10:42 i thought they only did that to wasps. 00:11:17 no, they do it to queens if they stop being reproductively fit and/or anger the proletariat 00:11:24 ouch 00:12:11 the monarchy would be way more entertaining if we did that in the uk imo 00:13:01 sterilize everybody in the UK but the queen, to be more like bees 00:13:12 Phantom_Hoover: but they'd want to do it to charles, not the queen 00:13:34 Bike: then how do you appoint a new queen? 00:14:10 set it up so that a few women randomly become reproductive again when the queens' pheremones stop suppressing them, and then have a cage match to determine which becomes the new queen. 00:19:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:21:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:24:24 Bike, model society 00:24:40 damn straight 00:24:50 smash the state + replace it with better honeycombing 00:27:16 cage match is dangerous 00:27:35 what if they kill or otherwise mutilate each other 00:27:57 i don't think you understand. 00:27:57 -!- augur has joined. 00:28:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:28:35 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:29:54 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:34:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 00:38:06 Bike: I'm willing to be enlightened with your explanations and please do feel free to use as much drawings and photos as you want 00:38:36 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:40:05 this is turning into some niche fetish thing isn't it 00:40:37 -!- madbr has joined. 00:40:38 When a young virgin queen emerges from a queen cell, she will generally seek out virgin queen rivals and attempt to kill them. Virgin queens will quickly find and kill (by stinging) any other emerged virgin queen (or be dispatched themselves), as well as any unemerged queens. Queen cells that are opened on the side indicate that a virgin queen was likely killed by a rival virgin queen. When a colony remains in swarm mode after the prime swarm ... 00:40:44 ... has left, the workers may prevent virgins from fighting and one or several virgins may go with after-swarms. Other virgins may stay behind with the remnant of the hive. As many as 21 virgin queens have been counted in a single large swarm. 00:40:48 etc. 00:41:19 that's not for new queens in the event of a queen dying, o'course 00:41:29 sup 00:41:31 sup 00:41:39 inf 00:42:00 kindof trying to find stuff that goes more in detail on how out of order cpus are made 00:42:08 they are all incredibly vague 00:42:25 isn't that in any modern microarchitecture design textbook 00:43:14 like, for the general stuff they explain it 00:43:19 they're not really vague, just printed in the wrong order 00:43:37 the register rename thing 00:43:37 wow, oerjan. 00:43:38 wow. 00:43:44 and reorder buffer 00:43:48 do you need register renaming for ooe 00:44:01 i had this idea that that was intel being weird as usual 00:44:06 is it a good idea to learn asm by writing C programs, compiling them, then using otool on the binary? 00:44:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:44:28 not the worst idea 00:44:30 best idea? 00:44:38 my friend said he was automating his architecture homework by writing a "C to MIPS translator" 00:44:40 afaik ooe is normally essentially hardware SSA 00:44:40 C compilers will use a different subset of asm than you would probably want to write by hand 00:44:45 that was a good chuckle 00:44:54 especially on x86 00:45:11 oh 00:45:13 like, you have a stream of instructions coming in 00:45:24 you turn that into a stream of microops 00:46:06 you have a ring buffer of microops and assign them consecutively 00:46:07 if you are writing x86 asm by hand you can mostly pretend it's a nice simple RISC-ish architecture... but compilers will exercise a lot of the stranger corners for performance 00:46:24 while the retirement logic retires the other end of the queue 00:46:32 (although there are also a lot of weird instructions that *seem* useful but are actually too slow) 00:46:50 (if compilers don't produce them then chip designers don't optimize them) 00:47:15 compiler outputs only bcd instructions 00:47:35 since you have a ring buffer of microops already you can simply assign results to a parallel ring buffer of result registers 00:47:46 bang, you have register renaming 00:48:33 It might be possible to make an OOE cpu without renaming but I'm not sure it makes any sense 00:49:13 I wonder if the course materials for MIT's 6.823 would be useful 00:49:15 they are online 00:49:35 so at any moment you have a queue of instructions that load values from other location in the queue 00:49:46 and with a flag to say that the result is valid 00:50:17 and then a bunch of execution units 00:50:48 and somehow on each cycle it figures out which instruction to assign to each unit 00:50:56 with low propagation delay 00:51:23 from what I remember it simply assigns in order of availability (?) 00:51:43 so like, if instruction X can use p0, p1, or p5, it has pretty much equal probability of hitting any of them if they're all free. 00:53:07 so it combs through all the non-ready instructions in the queue, checks all of them for having all ready operands, then picks the first 3 ones that are doable? 00:54:48 isn't that a lot of computation to do in essentially very low latency gate networks? 00:55:46 Um, I think I remember reading in one place that in like a recent CPU, the "clock bottleneck" (like, the longest latency between two steps of the pipeline?) came from something like "select the first 4 executable instructions from this queue of 40" 00:56:10 like the dependencies and stuff are already done, it just has to comb through and mux the first 4? 00:56:37 right 00:58:17 I thought they might have had some crazy heuristic for that 00:59:24 I'm not sure 00:59:53 I'm kindof surprised that they don't have worse clock bottlenecks from all the wide renamed register files and reorder buffers and crazy associativity 01:00:20 and the gazillion of ports involved 01:01:54 like, you have, what 01:02:12 4 alus + 2 address calculation units? 01:02:19 each one with two read ports 01:03:04 that can pull values from any of the wide file of renamed instructions (essentially one register for every instruction in the reorder queue?) 01:03:07 ? 01:03:57 That's like 12 read ports and 6 write ports on a 40+ register file 01:19:27 are high end CPUs still made with standard cells or do they optimize certain gates at the physical level for lower delay? 01:20:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:21:09 wish I knew 01:21:26 time to break out your electron microscope 01:21:32 and hydroflouric acid 01:22:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:22:23 presumably they'd concentrate on the previously mentioned "clock bottlenecks" 01:22:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 01:24:41 yeah 01:25:09 it must be so difficult to optimize for speed, area, power/heat, and yield all at once 01:27:44 `slist 9/4 01:27:46 slist 9/4: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:29:29 I'm pretty sure the major secret to Intel's CPU design is "when in doubt throw more money at the problem" 01:30:13 that can produce surprisingly poor results 01:30:40 money mainly gets used to hire people and the people need to know what the hell they're doing 01:30:46 i get it, "poor" results 01:31:57 kmc: See Pentium 4. 01:32:34 funny we had a discussion about go and chess robots earlier and a friend told me the only reason why chess robots were so performant was because so much money had been thrown into it 01:33:04 shachaf: -_- 01:33:17 yeah it's a funny way of talking about things 01:33:25 because "money" is nearly a synonym for "effort" 01:33:35 "why is this thing so good" "because people worked on making it good, DUH" 01:34:25 yeah well I was about to tell him why I thought go computers were so bad compared to chess computers 01:34:35 he said "nah it's just the money" 01:34:40 computers are good at go now, though http://blog.printf.net/articles/2012/02/23/computers-are-very-good-at-the-game-of-go/ 01:34:49 well 01:35:02 they've started being better than me only very recently 01:35:27 likewise the crap about how wanting money is evil... it's how you get the money, and what you use it for, that can be good or evil 01:35:28 and that's stil very very very very very very far from professional players 01:35:45 kmc: how are they at Arimaa? 01:35:46 the stuff about how Real Programmers or Real Artists shouldn't be motivated by money... that's actually incredibly selfish 01:36:20 Sgeo: no idea. don't think enough people care about Arimaa 01:36:35 Blah :( 01:38:34 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 01:38:37 I guess we just assume that people with money will waste it on bougie lifestyle status symbols rather than meaningful experiences, helping friends/family, or helping strangers 01:38:45 "You can read a commented version of one of its wins against Tromp at GoGameGuru, or you could even play against it yourself on KGS." 01:39:30 I think I'll do the former. I suck badly enough at Go/I'm enough of a Go newbie that I'd have a limited amount of understanding how its moves are tradionally considered bad 01:40:28 gogameguru doesn't seem to be loading 01:42:16 wait, is that our tromp 01:43:09 trompe le monde 01:44:25 hey, for the record, using monte-carlo in a go program was first done 3km away from my home 01:44:37 and the go program in question became the best go program for a while 01:44:41 oerjan: yes 01:44:56 and then all go programs started using monte carlo aaaaaaand we never heard of that go program again since 01:45:32 heh 01:47:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:56:46 -!- Bike has joined. 02:05:33 -!- augur has joined. 02:05:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:06:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:56:53 -!- augur has joined. 03:03:06 -!- augur has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:05 -!- augur has joined. 03:11:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:32 -!- augur has joined. 03:12:44 Why does OpenSUSE not configure sound card automatically? 03:13:15 Because it's mean and cruel. 03:13:39 contempt 03:16:37 Also need to configure KDE to use the (correctly configured) sound card 03:16:42 * Sgeo bonks head on wall 03:34:07 sajdfasjfd I better not start feeling nostalgia for Freespire 03:38:50 At least Linux XP is discontinued 03:38:52 Evil distro 03:40:53 "Despite frequent calls for a 64-bit edition, the developers have only started considering such possibility in late 2011, arguing that their 32-bit edition works equally well on 64-bit computer systems. " 03:40:57 [about PCLinuxOS] 03:41:02 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:46:05 If someone recomments that a newbie try Linux Mint, they may be confused as to which one to download 03:46:12 I have not heard of MATE and Cinnamon before now 03:50:16 Oh hey Amarok's available for Windows 03:50:50 "Amarok: Comes from the KDE Linux desktop. It is a great media manager with many features. It looks nice but beyond looks it is also very smart." 03:50:58 "since it is based on GTK, the installation pack is much larger than necessary (over 90Mb)" 03:51:01 uh.... 03:52:58 GTKDE 03:59:57 `slist 03:59:58 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:11:38 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:27:33 "Spotted car w/ VA license plate NOPSLD." 04:46:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:49:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:52:37 -!- carado has joined. 04:54:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:54:22 -!- augur has joined. 05:09:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:17:22 -!- augur has joined. 05:17:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:17:49 -!- augur has joined. 05:18:10 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:18:21 -!- ^v has joined. 05:21:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:22:34 -!- augur has joined. 05:29:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:31:16 -!- augur has joined. 05:32:49 http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/new-mystery-about-satoshi/ 05:35:00 decimal gray code <-- ?????? 05:36:22 «18-10-1960 is the date the article “Socialism, Inflation, and the Thrifty Householder” from Ludwig von Mises was published» lol 05:37:44 A gray code with decimal digits, presumably? 05:37:57 well, yes, but why would you ever. 05:38:06 on a modern computer, anyway 05:39:19 OH: "To get Firefox working in XMonad I think you need some coalgebras" 05:40:02 kmc: that's xterm, not firefox 05:40:23 (the joke is terminal coalgebras) 05:42:19 groan 05:43:21 kmc: remember how Mu is initial and Nu is terminal? good timez 05:43:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:44:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:45:00 yes 05:45:22 kmc: would you come to an edwardk talk in sf 05:45:40 hmm, come to think of it, would mozilla maybe have a space for it 05:47:09 i don't know 05:47:24 now I want to see a decimal gray code 05:48:51 How does that work? 05:49:34 probably there are lots of them 05:50:15 Oh, Wikipedia has an example/explanation. 05:50:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code#n-ary_Gray_code 05:50:31 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:51:32 so 0...8, 9, 19, 10, 11, ...etc 05:54:02 i wonder if a boustrephedon would be more convenient. 19, 18, 17, ... 11, 10, 20, 21, 21, ... 05:54:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:55:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:58:42 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:59:13 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:59:49 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:59:52 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:00:12 -!- Bike has joined. 06:12:53 Bike: "-- 20, 21, 21, ..." I guess that's some sort of gray code with extra redundancy thing. 06:17:16 grayer code 06:17:18 a whiter shade of gray 06:23:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4&feature=youtu.be 06:55:42 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:55:53 -!- ^v has joined. 07:01:55 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:20:37 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:22:45 -!- carado_ has joined. 07:25:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:49:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:50:45 Guess who's an idiot 07:52:22 hint: it's me 08:03:48 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:26:19 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:29:49 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:22:01 seems you've been all kinds of interesting while I was sleeping 09:24:52 are high end CPUs still made with standard cells? <-- I think that was almost answered by the Intel guy's AMA 09:26:05 iirc most of the stuff was done automatically but with their own library of secret sauce, then manual layout for the really important bits 09:49:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:50:50 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:51:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:51:50 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:12:11 -!- zt has joined. 10:12:31 -!- yorick has joined. 10:46:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:47:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:47:10 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:57:24 -!- nisstyre has joined. 11:02:52 -!- zt has left. 11:04:31 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:09:34 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:10:28 -!- ulalul has joined. 11:15:45 -!- ulalul has changed nick to [ulalul]. 11:30:33 I have blood on my hands 11:30:35 Fuck acne 11:31:14 and no matter what you do about it, there will always remain... 11:31:18 blood IN your hands 11:32:47 :O 11:37:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:07 -!- [ulalul] has quit. 11:58:57 I scrub and I scrub and there's still blood in the hands? 12:10:53 -!- Solain has joined. 12:13:07 -!- boily has joined. 12:13:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:16:49 -!- Solain has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:16:53 good what-is-a-shipping-wall morning! 12:20:22 hi 12:23:17 I Fiora'ed the wisdom. that document is beginning to look not quite too bad :D 12:24:34 what does that mean :D 12:25:39 boily: Does page 2 say "blank page" in light grey in the middle, or is that just my PDF viewer? 12:26:12 mnoqy: http://youtu.be/qLrnkK2YEcE 12:26:16 fizzie: it is your viewer. 12:26:36 Thought so. 12:27:06 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 12:27:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:28:38 I feel the typeface used to render Chinese in “ramen” doesn't look right. do any one of you have any suggestion? 12:30:02 the stroke weights are all random. 麺 is abnormally thin, 縫 is too heavy, and 樹 is glitched. 12:58:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:19:17 aaaaah... the soulagement of having chosen the right font. why must tex fonts be oh so complex... 13:21:48 boily, a shipping wall is a wall displaying ships 13:22:35 Thankhellob. 13:22:46 (that was a thanks, a hello, and a Taneb all-in-one.) 13:23:21 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004195 13:24:07 oh, that kind of ship. I gues I just never had seen that much dedication to shipping beforehand. 13:25:05 (well. nanoha and fate notwithstanding.) 13:56:59 -!- conehead has joined. 13:57:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 14:00:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:07:56 `pastewisdom 14:08:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 14:19:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:25:52 upgrade to a cabal 1.18 system: complete! 14:26:06 ~eval 1 + 2 14:26:07 3 14:26:11 :D 14:31:08 ~eval 1 + pi 14:31:08 4.141592653589793 14:31:20 ~eval e^(pi*i) 14:31:20 Error (1): Not in scope: `e'Not in scope: `i' 14:31:24 Pffff 14:32:11 ~eval exp pi 14:32:12 23.140692632779267 14:32:26 ~eval exp (pi * (0 :+ 1)) 14:32:27 (-1.0) :+ 1.2246467991473532e-16 14:32:46 Roujo: there you are. -1 + random floating point part. 14:32:59 hooray. 14:33:13 That's not what I wanted though =P 14:33:16 Wait 14:33:17 Is it? 14:33:23 ~eval exp 1 14:33:23 2.718281828459045 14:33:27 Huh 14:33:30 So maybe it is 14:33:38 ~eval sqrt(-1) 14:33:38 NaN 14:33:41 Awwww 14:33:46 That's the fun part 14:33:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 14:34:22 ~eval sqrt(-1) :: Complex 14:34:22 Error (1): Expecting one more argument to `Data.Complex.Complex' 14:34:30 ~eval sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float 14:34:31 (-0.0) :+ 1.0 14:35:14 -!- Bike__ has joined. 14:35:37 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:35:42 -!- Bike__ has changed nick to Bike. 14:38:46 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:52:30 Hmmm 14:52:51 ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) 14:52:52 (-1.0) :+ (-8.742278e-8) 14:53:16 ~eval exp $ pi * sqrt -1 :: Complex Float 14:53:17 Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `Data.Complex.Complex GHC.Types.Float' 14:53:17 with actual type `a0 -> a0' 14:53:29 ~eval (exp $ pi * sqrt -1) :: Complex Float 14:53:29 Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `Data.Complex.Complex GHC.Types.Float' 14:53:29 with actual type `a0 -> a0' 14:53:37 bleh. 14:53:37 It's supposed to be -1, really 14:53:41 ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1 14:53:41 0.0 :+ (-8.742278e-8) 14:53:45 Oh 14:53:49 e-8 14:53:56 So it's just floating dust, really 14:53:58 Cool! 14:54:10 Didn't see that 14:57:23 ~eval exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Double)) + 1 14:57:24 0.0 :+ 1.2246467991473532e-16 14:57:26 (Even closer.) 14:58:44 ~eval exp (pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal)) 14:58:45 Error (1): Not in scope: type constructor or class `CReal' 14:58:45 Perhaps you meant `Real' (imported from Prelude) 14:58:49 oh no. 14:58:54 > exp (pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal)) 14:58:56 (-1.0) :+ 0.0 14:59:24 ~eval (exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1) - (exp(pi * (sqrt(-1) :: Complex Float)) + 1) 14:59:25 0.0 :+ 0.0 14:59:28 Woooo 14:59:55 Either it collapses the equation to x - x = 0, or the floating point errors are consistent ^^ 15:00:02 how come I don't have Creal. that shouldn't be so. 15:00:17 You shouldn't not have it? 15:00:35 floats are deterministic, eys 15:00:46 Yay 15:01:44 -!- lsiwe has joined. 15:01:51 "If the function takes arguments, declare them; if it takes no arguments, use void." - K&R2 I see code like this too, why is this? Is it explained later in K&R2, or is that all that it's going to say? (Talking about use of void when no args). 15:02:16 ~duck eys 15:02:16 Eys is a village in the municipality of Gulpen-Wittem, Limburg, the Netherlands. 15:02:29 i think "foo ()" just means it's a function without saying anything about the args, or something 15:02:30 ~eval 1 :: CReal 15:02:30 1.0 15:03:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:03:39 Something like that, yeah. If you follow that standard, then you can talk about doStuff() without having to specify that it's actually doStuff(Stuff *s1, Stuff *s2) 15:03:57 And without implying that doStuff() takes to arguments 15:04:10 Which is useful when documenting 15:04:13 Roujo: Was that directed towards me? 15:04:16 Yeah 15:04:24 Sorry =P 15:06:05 When I do documentation, I tend to have sentences like "This method relies on the argument's doStuff() method, which it uses to determine so-and-so." 15:07:07 `relcome lsiwe 15:07:10 ​lsiwe: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:07:11 Now, if doStuff() is actually doStuff(arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5), I don't want to write that out every time, so I use doStuff(). Someone who doesn't know the function, though, might think this means doStuff() doesn't take any arguments. 15:07:15 Roujo: How come people use it for main(), for example? Just standards? 15:07:33 Using the doStuff(void) when it does not take arguments makes it explicit 15:08:01 I don't know, I always use main with args =P 15:08:10 Even if I don't use them afterwards 15:09:46 Roujo: Ah, I see people do it for non-documentation reasons, as well. 15:10:06 int main(void) { /* … */ } for example 15:10:15 Might be. I mostly do Java anyway, and I don't think doStuff(void) is valid there =P 15:11:32 Roujo: http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100425213029AA7n6Bv 15:11:37 Seems to be only useful for documentation. 15:11:47 Nice 15:12:42 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:13:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:15:52 I usually compile with gcc flags that make it impossible not to use a function's argument 15:16:38 so if I don't need main's arguments, I use main(void) 15:19:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:20:28 Hello 15:21:29 Anothello. 15:21:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:21:52 Helloily 15:24:29 `quote Nisstyre 15:24:31 No output. 15:34:42 -!- conehead has joined. 15:34:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:37:13 -!- lsiwe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:37:46 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:39:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:40:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:43:39 Koen_: Nice. What flags make that happen? 15:44:26 Roujo: well my school's correction program usually compiles with -Wall -Wextra -Werror so so do I 15:45:01 Cool, thanks =) 15:45:03 one of the three means "consider warnings as errors", another is "have some extra severe warnings that you usually don't have", and I don't know what is the third but something alkie 15:45:12 alike 15:46:38 ~duck alkie 15:46:38 alkie definition: slang alcoholic. 15:46:56 =P 15:52:20 ~duck consider phlebas 15:52:20 Consider Phlebas, first published in 1987, is a space opera novel by Scottish writer Iain M. Banks. 15:53:28 That's an odd title 15:53:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:58:17 -!- Bike has joined. 15:58:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:00:48 Roujo: yeah so -Wall adds A LOT of warnings, included about stuff that is legal but dubious, like "you used = instead of == in a condition, please add parentheses or something to insist on the fact that = is assignment"; -Wextra also adds extra warnings, but I think they're more about stuff where the code isn't logic, like if you're testing if an unsigned value is positive, or discarding the result of an expression that doesn't have any 16:00:48 effects; and finally -Werror turns all warnings into errors so the compilation will fail at the slightest warning 16:01:24 Nice 16:01:28 however gcc's man doesn't clear state whether the warning about unused arguments is caused by -Wall or -Wextra; in fact it seems to imply it's caused by having both flags 16:01:39 so I will test with only one of the two flags now 16:04:01 I think -Wextra implies -Wall... 16:04:38 Roujo: the title is a T. S. Eliot quote (I've never read the book but intend to at some point) 16:04:48 for that matter, I don't think I've ever read the poem it's a quote from in full. 16:05:11 things fall apart? 16:05:55 Bike: I'm... confused 16:06:09 i'm asking what you're talking about since i missed it. 16:06:41 wait, that was yeats 16:06:44 lol oops. 16:06:44 the title of the book Consider Phlebas by Iain M. Banks 16:06:46 -!- sdf9 has joined. 16:07:05 things fall apart is named after a line from a poem that i thought was eliot for some reason. oopsie! 16:07:14 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:08:49 -!- carado has joined. 16:11:09 elliott: the man doesn"t say anything about -Wall to be include by -Wextra 16:12:26 Bike: right I was, I kinda assumed that was what was happening but I was worried that maybe I was the uncultured one so I didn't say anything specific 16:12:45 also I didn't actually know that it wasn't an Eliot quote, I had to google to check 16:12:52 I'm literally an incomplete person without wikipedia 16:13:47 * Fiora too 16:20:11 Koen_: Cool cats compile with -Wall -Wextra -Werror -ansi -pedantic 16:21:02 never heard of them 16:22:02 is that a british school? 16:25:37 Yes. 16:25:45 Cool Cats Polytechnic. 16:26:27 elliott is a student there. 16:34:06 ~duck look to windward 16:34:06 Look to Windward is a science fiction novel by Scottish writer Iain M. Banks, first published in 2000. 16:34:32 (Sorta-sequel, same poem.) 16:35:18 -!- conehead has joined. 16:52:33 -!- sdf93 has joined. 16:52:34 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:54:07 elliott: so what can you say about cool cats? 16:59:05 -!- sdf93 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:59:27 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:01:28 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:50 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:03:52 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:11 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:06:12 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:06:35 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:08:38 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:09:05 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:10:09 back from a mexican lunch, elliott is related to everything, and who is sdf9? didn't we see a (~menot@...) yesterday? 17:10:26 sdf9 is someone about to get a +b for join/quit spamming 17:10:31 and yes they've used about five nicks or something so far :P 17:11:11 oh. should I expect ion being licked, or are they another person? 17:11:50 they're in, um, indonesia, looks like 17:12:57 So you backtraced him? 17:13:54 the IIITTTSSS strikes again... 17:14:17 (Indonesian Intimate Ion Terrible Tongue Therapy Subliminal Slimy Squad) 17:15:02 sorry, I do not know why it is happening. :p 17:15:30 oh, was the ion-licker indonesian? 17:15:43 sdf9: that's okay, we only do the death penalty here if your connection breaks 10 times 17:15:46 you still have a chance! 17:16:08 oh my gosh :O 17:16:22 elliott: So you're saying that Bike is undead by now? 17:17:39 I'm sure Bike is allergic to canadian brains, right? 17:18:06 * boily winks to Roujo, and whisper “Play along! We need to stay grouped against the hordes!” 17:19:17 Pretty sure e is *wink wink nudge nudge* 17:21:03 -!- douglass has joined. 17:21:42 * boily wields a 150m zombie-proof certified shovel of +3 organic holy aura (locally produced, for greenhouse gas reduction!) 17:27:31 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:28:00 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:28:19 that doesn't bode well for them... 17:28:56 The Clock is Ticking 17:31:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:34:15 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:41 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:35:41 sdf9 is taking the lead over Bike wrt. post-redeundead zombiness. 17:36:41 * Roujo puts on his broadcaster headset. 17:36:56 It's a neck to neck race, boily. Bike will have to work double-time to get back in the lead. 17:38:56 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:29 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:39:57 -!- sdf9 has quit (Client Quit). 17:40:19 uh oh! the gap is widening with this surprise move from sdf9! with only a few laps remaining, we can say that Bike has no chance left! back to you, Roujo. 17:41:44 Thank you, boily. I'm on the edge of my seat right now, since there's no telling when the officials will call for a penatly. elliott has an history of... interesting calls in his line of duty, so predicting the outcome is a daunting task. 17:42:33 -!- sdf9 has joined. 17:43:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:43:37 It ain't over 'till it's over! both contestants are showing their work, althought sdf9's technique is really shining now! Bike doesn't admit defeat easily, and who knows? elliott's sudden decisions can still bring a lot of surprises! 17:44:09 but, what is that? an unknown contestant? can you tell us more about sebbu? over to you, Roujo. 17:45:34 Ah, yes, sebbu. 6'7", strong as steel. Tough contestant, although he'll have to show more than that token effort to take the crown. 17:46:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:47:13 incredible! a fourth contender! I wouldn't like to get ahead of myself there, but I think this is the Match of the Century! 17:47:44 Even better than '84's Contest of Champions, boily& 17:47:45 ? 17:50:51 ? 17:50:55 -!- ^v has joined. 17:52:24 '84 was an incredible year, but I'm astonished by sdf9's performance here. but let's first ask ^v, our foreign liaison, how he feels about that race? 17:53:03 <^v> i was not alive in 1984 17:54:00 <^v> and i dont participate in history class 17:54:25 -!- sdf93 has joined. 17:54:26 laconic, but to the point. Roujo, the excitement is palpable here. just imagine the flood of emotions that are washing over those who can be close to the contestants and see them with their own eyes. 17:54:41 Ah, darn shame. Although come to think of it, I wasn't around in '84 either. Oooooh, and he's back! 17:55:12 <^v> you would have to be like 50 c_c 17:55:25 -!- sdf9 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:31 I didn't think I could get any closer to the edge of my seat, but it seems the sdf9 decided that the Planck Lenght just wasn't short enough! So much excitement! 17:55:32 but under a different name! wasn't that move ruled unorthodox under last year's International Comittee General Assembly? because if so, that'd be very sad. the elegance... 17:55:46 <^v> 28* 17:56:10 <^v> well then 17:56:16 <^v> my mom was alive in 1984 17:56:31 <^v> boily: who are you and why arent you on topic c_c 17:56:45 It's indeed unorthodox, boily, but very much legal. The worst that could happen is that it's judged unsportsmanly, but the officials seem to be turning a blind eye to such shows of agility and prouesse these days. 17:57:24 <^v> what are you talking about 17:57:56 <^v> none of that made any sense, stop ^%$#ing english D: its bad enough 17:58:24 sdf9's race with Bike to the top of the d/c scoreboard, of course. Such an event, too, very exciting. 17:59:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Roujo. 17:59:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily. 18:00:06 <^v> uhh 18:00:07 <^v> what 18:00:39 it seems we're having some communication problems with our external correspondant. we'll have to temporarily suspend the feed over to ^v... 18:00:57 <^v> you are raping english 18:01:09 that word is ban here 18:01:17 <^v> oops 18:01:19 <^v> sorry 18:01:36 Ahhh, I can talk better now. Broadcasting to the masses! The race seems to have come to a lull at the moment, with all contestants taking a temporary break. We'll be back after these commercials. 18:02:01 <^v> people who exesively use unnecicary adjectives on EVERYTHING makes me really mad 18:02:08 q: what the fuck is going on 18:02:54 Roujo: si la tendance se maintient, elliott won't be doing nothing soon. do you think he's acting on purpose in order to artificially increase the suspense? 18:03:28 boily: Probably. I don't believe in spontaneous voices, so they must have come from somewhere. 18:03:40 Oh, question from the audience. We go to boily for the answer! 18:05:27 dear kmc, we don't know either. you'll have to wait for the next round! and for your support, you win a Commemorative Great Redisunconnection Race keychain, 2013 Edition! 18:06:48 Very nice prize, valued at 50 BTC and brought to you by the #esoteric bots. Thank you, bots. 18:06:56 Thots. 18:10:07 * ^v parses 18:10:20 * ^v segfualts 18:10:46 I think that typo will cost ^v some points from the judges... What do you think, boily? 18:11:01 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 18:11:04 `thanks #esoteric bots 18:11:05 Thanks, #esoteric bots. Thesoteric bots. 18:11:17 wow that's actually good i guess. i expected it to break 18:11:37 is that a... 7... a 6... and what? a three from the third panelist! nooodl, why so harsh a judgment? 18:11:38 <^v> i dont think its a bot 18:11:56 `run echo I beg to differ 18:11:57 I beg to differ 18:12:27 ~echo I concur. HackEgo is a bot. 18:12:28 I concur. HackEgo is a bot. 18:12:41 ^I AM A FUNGOT 18:12:53 Huh 18:12:54 going to have to give a 10 on the "turing test" category here though. (3 + 10)/2 still a nice score 18:13:36 Questionable reasoning, but solid answer. We now go to our resident race analyst, fungot. Fungot? 18:13:36 Roujo: and is one thing which you might want more? and some stuff in my youth. ( under establishment)? i maintain my curiousity. i really enjoyed such powers... now it's nick!userhost-limited to me, and ile not wish thee more 18:13:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:13:58 <^v> what the hell 18:14:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:14:01 Wiser words, boily. Wiser. Words. 18:14:18 <^v> these bots 18:14:21 <^v> are getting 18:14:22 Oooh, and Bike's back in the race! Nice timeout there, a little high, could be rounder, but still fantastic. 18:14:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:14:24 <^v> out of hand 18:15:47 simply in-cre-di-ble, I say. I knew that Bike wouldn't admit such a position. nice move there. I applaud his ingenuity. the execution wasn't perfect, as you kindly remarked, but considering what level of exhaustion he must be in, it is still quite impressive. 18:15:57 -!- Bike has joined. 18:16:07 welcome bike 18:16:15 (it's a pun on welcome back) 18:16:21 elliott: never fear! if someone in a conversation is acting like an idiot but it's not me you can assume it's me. it's one of many services i offer. 18:16:26 welqy 18:17:21 "but it's not obvious who"*, not "it's not me", because it is me 18:18:18 are you drunk. 18:18:58 Roujo: elliott is finally active! what will be his next move? 18:19:06 Now, viewers, please direct any criticism on this race's reporting by using the `complaint command. Our house elves will examine and reply shortly. 18:19:13 i am SCIENCE 18:19:19 Wait, what was `complaints. Feel free to report that as well. 18:19:56 boily: I have no idea, but I can't wait. The competitors have been fiercly arguing about the legality of sbf9's nick change, and I'm hoping the issue will be resolved shortly. 18:21:05 Wait, it's actually sdf9, not sbf9. I smell a penalty. 18:21:53 ah, so many opportunities lost! what are the umpires doing?... wait!... is that?... yes, we got our feed back to ^v! 18:22:17 ^v: do you feel rules should be more strictly enforced? 18:22:55 <^v> no 18:22:56 <^v> please 18:22:57 <^v> go 18:23:05 <^v> stop pinging me or im going to leave 18:23:29 -!- ^v has changed nick to StopPingingMeRou. 18:23:46 -!- StopPingingMeRou has changed nick to StopItBoilyRoujo. 18:24:39 We mean no harm. We live to report, that is all. No pings for you, then. 18:24:42 -!- billion57 has joined. 18:24:49 `complaint Pings seem to be too frequent 18:24:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: complaint: not found 18:24:55 `complaints Pings seem to be too frequent 18:24:57 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:25:58 `run mv bin/complaints bin/complain 18:26:01 `relcome billion57 18:26:01 No output. 18:26:04 ​billion57: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:29:15 -!- billion57 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:30:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:33:14 -!- sdf93 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:15 -!- sdf93 has joined. 18:36:15 -!- StopItBoilyRoujo has changed nick to dan200. 18:36:19 -!- dan200 has left ("Leaving"). 18:38:14 And another point for sdf93! The count just keeps on couning, doesn't e. 18:40:07 perhaps I should build an out-of-order cpu one day 18:42:08 -!- sdf93 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:42:49 -!- STOP_KICKING_ME has joined. 18:43:14 STOP_KICKING_ME: Nobody's kicking you. You're doing this to yourself. 18:43:37 Think about it. Look inside yourself. You will see: I speak only truth. 18:43:48 * Bike nods sagely 18:49:02 -!- STOP_KICKING_ME has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:49:43 -!- IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_ has joined. 18:50:11 IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_: Sure it's you. You keep closing the connection. 18:50:15 >STOP_KICKING_ME [~menot@118.99.127.142] has quit IRC: Remote host closed the connection 18:50:16 See? 18:50:25 hey 18:50:27 what 18:50:35 Good People Don't Close Connections Like That Mmmmkay? 18:50:40 kmc: What's what for? 18:50:45 what is going on 18:51:04 `olist (917) 18:51:06 olist (917): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 18:51:40 kmc: IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_ keeps d/c'ing, but says we're kicking him. 18:51:53 Nevermind the fact that nobody is op here. 18:52:04 im op here 18:52:08 IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_: would it help if I kicked you?? 18:52:10 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 18:52:11 Well, not right now =P 18:52:12 just say when 18:52:14 Ooooh 18:53:18 I think I may be addicted to petty abuse of power ;_; 18:54:12 elliott: i could've told you that 19:00:50 -!- IT_IS_NOT_ME_IT_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:11:21 -!- everquester has joined. 19:13:31 -!- everquester has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:32 -!- everquester has joined. 19:21:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:28:22 -!- everquester has quit. 19:29:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:58:42 abuse of power is good. especially with chocolate milk. 20:00:58 -!- zt has joined. 20:00:59 ^^ 20:03:27 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:03:44 -!- zt has quit (Client Quit). 20:21:32 fizzie: how's the tvtroping? 20:21:47 (do we have dates associated with `quotes? that one seems very old) 20:24:38 hg blame on the quotes file? 20:27:26 god damn it, I upgraded my graphics drivers and now I can't use valgrind on this program I need to debug :( 20:28:14 olsner: oh. right. 20:30:29 `quote Glurk 20:30:30 687) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. 20:31:35 elliott, why, exactly, does Gregor not have voice 20:31:53 sore throat? 20:32:52 boily: 20:32:53 $ wc -l tvtropes.txt 20:32:53 61 tvtropes.txt 20:33:21 surely tvtropes is a bit longer than that? 20:33:39 olsner: It's a queue. 20:33:47 (See the referred-to quote.) 20:33:55 `quote tvtropes 20:33:57 234) Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing. 20:34:00 `pastelogs tvtropes\.txt 20:34:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17188 20:35:27 I probably haven't updated that file for a year, though. 20:37:21 kmc: what 20:37:41 isn't software engineering such a wonderful profession 20:38:55 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security "SSL is dead" 20:43:45 fizzie: your quotes are included in the PDF! 20:48:51 boily: I'm confused. Wasn't the PDF about wise things? 20:50:17 well, you know, like, feature creep and all that. besides, reformatting quotes is fun! 20:50:21 (no, I am not insane.) 20:50:40 right. 20:51:06 btw, is glumgot a bot? 20:51:38 I think so but I have no idea what it does 20:52:45 I like Philip Glass. one two three four five six ♪ faaaa faaaa faaaa faaa ♪ 20:58:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:59:29 * oerjan swats everyone (including ais523 in absentia) for not telling his /// quine had been reddited. 20:59:32 oops 20:59:36 * -----### 21:00:03 boily: Huh, there's surprisingly many of them. 21:01:13 fizzie: I still have to reformat the behemoths of augur and Bike's quotes, but yours was still substantial enough. 21:01:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:01:28 oerjan: ais523 has a reddited quine? where? where? 21:01:33 * boily needs his reddit fix! 21:01:39 boily: no _mine_ 21:01:52 still. me want. 21:01:58 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ljhm9/this_is_one_pleasantlooking_and_completely_insane/ 21:04:01 ...i guess not to be hypocritical, i should mention this is currently top of proggit http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ls0bc/brainfuck_interpreter_in_brainfuck/ 21:06:07 oerjan: how did you even make that quine help 21:06:51 i modified the coding method from the BCT interpreter 21:06:56 github has bf syntax hiliting. I am scared. 21:07:47 which itself was modified from the slightly more readable loops in the exampes above. 21:08:58 sometimes I feel like the rest of the world is doing more esolang work than #esoteric 21:09:17 hey, we do have a wiki about esolangs. I honestly forgot about it... >_>'... 21:11:31 -!- carado has joined. 21:11:48 boily: >_> 21:16:31 nooodl: ///\\ is a quoting prefix, if you remove that you will find a copy of the surrounding program inside. the rest then makes two copies of that (one inside the other), and modifies the quoting prefix appropriately in each copy. 21:17:49 pretty standard quine on a higher level. 21:20:06 Bike: oh it's because the new graphics driver is using a different malloc 21:20:07 of course 21:20:20 i think we had a discussion here once where i helped someone make a similar quine without the /\ only obfuscation. 21:20:36 kmc: obviously 21:23:12 other things starting with ///, like ///\/\/\ at the end, may be considered tokens/labels. 21:23:40 (that one is the label for where the final output form ends up, btw.) 21:30:45 `quote Fluttershy 21:30:47 803) !rot13 Fluttershy Rainbow Dash Rarity Applejack Twilight Sparkle Pinkie Pie Syhggreful Envaobj Qnfu Enevgl Nccyrwnpx Gjvyvtug Fcnexyr Cvaxvr Cvr oh, they're all named after rot13'd welsh words 21:33:53 oddly, LaTeX hyphenated Nccyr-wnpx. 21:34:38 nooodl: btw that unreadable label choice started from thinking about how to program using /\ only, and noticing that ///// would never show up naturally in a program, then whittling it down by restricting the coding style somewhat. (the BCT interpreter manages with just two slashes, but the quine needed three unless i added cruft that would have made it longer in total anyway.) 21:34:44 and now, with Gregor's quotes up to date, time to go enbooze myself. 21:34:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:34:49 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:22 nooodl: also btw i used haskell programs to put this mess together :) 21:45:44 i saw! 21:45:56 the /\ only style was a bit much to keep track of with vim :) 21:45:57 i gotta go right now but i'll dissect the whole thing a bit later, maybe 21:47:11 *just vim 21:52:11 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:55:26 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:59 > sqrt(-1) :: Complex CReal 21:56:00 0.0 :+ 1.0 21:57:03 > exp (pi * (0 :+ 1)) :: Complex CReal 21:57:04 (-1.0) :+ 0.0 21:57:14 Roujo: ^ 21:57:56 also Bike i guess 21:58:55 oh duh you already did it 21:59:00 * oerjan is so out of date 22:07:20 `? eliot 22:07:22 eliot? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:07:22 | 22:07:22 º¯`\o 22:07:44 `ls wisdom/el?iot? 22:07:46 ls: cannot access wisdom/el?iot?: No such file or directory 22:07:49 oops 22:07:54 `ls wisdom/el*iot* 22:07:55 ls: cannot access wisdom/el*iot*: No such file or directory 22:08:03 `run ls wisdom/el*iot* 22:08:05 wisdom/elliot \ wisdom/elliott 22:08:10 `? elliot 22:08:12 No one was ever called Elliot. 22:12:54 gaaaaaaaah and now it segfaults half the time, but never in Valgrind 22:12:56 `? ion 22:12:58 ion? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:12:58 | 22:12:58 º¯`\o 22:14:34 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:18:19 kmc: fix the bug by making the program exec itself under valgrind 22:19:18 good plan 22:19:54 elliott: That's... a terrible idea 22:19:59 And yet so tempting 22:20:14 Oh, oerjan 22:20:18 You missed my reign 22:20:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:21:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:21:29 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:24:50 -!- tswett has joined. 22:25:02 Hey, do we know someone named Wei Dai? thx 22:25:18 Wei Dai: not in scope 22:25:41 @tell boily Not sure what you're referring to. 22:25:41 Consider it noted. 22:28:23 -!- aloril has joined. 22:30:50 `which c++filt 22:30:52 ​/usr/bin/c++filt 22:31:00 `echo _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt 22:31:01 _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt 22:31:06 `run echo _ZNK13GrGLInterface5GLPtrIPFviPKjEEcvS4_Ev@plt | c++filt 22:31:07 GrGLInterface::GLPtr::operator void (*)(int, unsigned int const*)() const@plt 22:31:58 isn't that a wonderful name for a function 22:39:14 very readable 22:39:31 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:58 -!- augur has joined. 22:44:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:49:10 status: writing debug helpers in C, injecting them with LD_PRELOAD, and calling them from gdb 22:49:37 jesus 22:49:45 -!- douglass has joined. 22:49:48 "can't you at least write them in Rust" 22:49:51 lool 22:49:58 yes but then I would have two problems 22:53:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:54:35 write debug helper in rust, inject them into rustc with ld_preload, call them from... uh... gdrust?? 22:56:13 gnu derust? yeah, sure. 23:04:27 i have a big jar of rust remover at my house 23:04:29 i should bring that in one day 23:05:37 so in ocaml, && and || are lazy 23:05:54 just thrhow rust remover all over the office 23:05:55 but if you define a function as let f = (||);; 23:05:59 THIS IS WHAT I THINK OF YOUR DAMN LANGUAGE 23:06:03 then f is not lazy 23:06:37 Koen_: this doesn't seem surprising? 23:06:47 yeah but why is || lazy ? 23:06:52 it's supposed to be a function 23:06:58 functions in ocaml are not lazy 23:07:05 convenience? 23:07:13 also totally unrelatedly 23:07:24 i just saw "just-in-time" in the context of pedagogy :| 23:07:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:07:46 I just saw just-in-time in the context of compiling befunge programs 23:07:54 what's just-in-time in the context of pedagogy? 23:08:08 "I recommend an alternative, historically inspired ordering of population genetics topics, based on progressively increasing mathematical difficulty. This progression can facilitate just-in-time math instruction." 23:10:42 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:22:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:24:44 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:27:00 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:32:53 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:50:31 -!- Bike has joined. 2013-09-06: 00:06:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:09:40 help i seem to be obsessed with tcl again why oh why 00:10:38 just take some heroin to mask it 00:11:50 -!- conehead has joined. 00:12:18 ​`olist 917 blah blah i'm sure someone olisted first 00:13:16 I seem to be becoming a zero-width space conservationist, I only used one 00:14:40 @ask Phantom_Hoover wtf happens here http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/130904.html 00:14:40 Consider it noted. 00:14:46 i'm sure he'll know. 00:16:08 look man i'm not that scottish 00:19:09 `? Phantom_Hoover 00:19:11 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. 00:19:21 it says _true_ Scotsman, Phantom_Hoover 00:19:37 so glad that the nvidia binary OpenGL drivers for Linux make heavy use of self modifying code 00:19:51 oh dear, this is getting intractible 00:21:11 kmc: ouch 00:21:19 what do they use it for? 00:21:20 @tell Koen_ I think && and || are just special cased in the language, as in most languages 00:21:21 Consider it noted. 00:21:25 Fiora: I don't even know... 00:21:56 the tales of flaco just keep getting taller. 00:22:17 (||);; looks like an emoticon 00:23:02 um, if I might ask where did this come up o_O 00:23:21 the self modifying code? 00:23:34 trying to figure out why my program is crashing in the opengl library 00:23:42 ohhhh 00:23:56 (the answer turns out to be, calling OpenGL functions from a thread other than the one which set up OpenGL, which is a pretty normal answer really) 00:23:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:23:57 couldn't it just be like, a JIT of some sort, like a shader compiler? 00:24:01 (but the getting there is pretty weird) 00:24:11 could be 00:24:51 ​`pbflist because Phantom_Hoover said to 00:25:00 And not because of actual pbf 00:25:34 THWARTED AGAIN 00:25:39 * Phantom_Hoover twiddles moustache furiously 00:25:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 00:26:07 Phantom_Hoover: someone should remove Sgeo's zero-width spaces before he hurts someone 00:26:15 AHA 00:27:07 `pbflist for accuracy 00:27:23 noöne likes a smartass Sgeo 00:39:12 -!- douglass has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:43:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:50:15 -!- dan200 has joined. 00:50:19 oh no 00:50:26 Roujo is still here 00:52:24 would you like to be separated from him *whistles innocently* 00:54:21 elliott: why you're right, it _is_ addictive! 00:57:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:10:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:20:49 -!- Bike has joined. 01:24:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:39:36 ooh, Nthern is back on the wiki. 01:39:53 the only other person who managed to write something in ///, as i recall :) 01:41:46 -!- augur has joined. 01:42:05 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:42:55 oerjan: Heh =P 01:53:39 -!- madbr has joined. 01:53:44 hey 01:54:55 thzbai 01:54:57 -!- tswett has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 01:56:12 I'm starting to think that out of order execution is just a really elaborate prefetch scheme 02:25:46 -!- Poolala has joined. 02:29:44 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:33:47 like, is there any point to out of order execution, other than dealing with unoptimized code and trying to hide cache misses? 02:36:08 (and having too few registers on x86) 02:42:21 in other words 02:42:42 if you had an optimal architecture and no cache misses, would out-of-order be useless? 02:45:08 are those reasonable assumptions, though 02:46:07 well, for optimal architecture IMHO even the stupid traditional 32 register MIPS would fit 02:46:33 like, it probably can't do 10 instructions per cycle, but no architecture can do that 02:47:57 i mean, no cache misses/"unoptimized code" 02:48:26 no cache misses obviously isn't very "real world" :3 02:48:33 right 02:49:00 unoptimized code I'm not too sure about 02:49:03 and i mean isn't there a longstanding debate or whatever about whether compilers should be expected to make good code versus the processor working things out 02:49:20 well 02:49:37 I expect most compilers nowaday turn everything into SSA form 02:49:51 heh, heh. 02:50:04 and can do at least a minimum amount of reordering 02:50:47 and by "most compliers" I really mean msvc, llvm and gcc 02:51:46 I don't expect compilers to be able to do enough reordering to keep a 10-issue cpu busy 02:51:55 but a 2 or 3 issue cpu sounds reasonable 02:52:17 -!- carado has joined. 02:55:29 like, multiplications are high latency so they require a lot of shuffling, but usually they happen in stuff like dsp and gfx code that's usually math heavy anyways 02:57:46 load/store/jump code is mostly low latency ops, though it has less math ops that you can shuffle around... then again if it has unavoidable dependency chains, it's going to have unavoidable dependency chains on a pentium 2 too 02:58:35 stuff like file compression and string parsing 03:10:52 -!- itsy has joined. 03:12:37 -!- jconn has joined. 03:32:17 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:40:11 -!- dan200 has changed nick to ^v. 03:49:05 -!- ^v has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))). 03:51:47 TCL sometimes reminds me of functional reactive programming in... some ways 03:52:02 Or, at least, has a nice ability to set something like that up 03:55:05 Ooh, I should implement Deadfish in Tcl 03:55:14 I have an utterly crazy idea of how to implement it 04:03:48 Well, ok, not C++ templates crazy 04:08:10 Deadfish... is not very well specified, is it. The page implies that something is a vagriety of the C implementation, then says to check against its math results to see that that thing is there 04:08:27 it is a joke 04:15:39 Sgeo: the joke is that we follow the C implementation faithfully especially in those aspects which show its author was not very good at programming. 04:16:04 Oh 04:16:11 Maybe I should look at the C impl. then 04:18:13 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:19:41 also, i consider the python one within acceptable variation, it was written by the same author. 04:23:38 I feel like my code in generally isn't generally much cleaner 04:24:22 -!- carado has joined. 04:24:39 i'm impressed at the apl implementation, but i feel it could probably be optimized 04:24:51 Um. Except I'd try to avoid recursive loops in non-TCOed languages 04:26:27 err, that -1 check is useless, isn't it. 04:26:43 "unsigned int x; /* make a positive integer and call it x */" man, this is some good stuff. 04:26:44 no? 04:26:52 maybe you're useless, sgeo 04:26:59 oh hm 04:27:00 Bike........ 04:27:11 why are you doing the thing where you insult people 04:27:25 It's an unsigned int, does C convert the -1 to MAXINT or whatever -1 underflows into? 04:27:30 congenital condition. 04:27:48 congenial condition also 04:28:07 wow good scanf. 04:28:51 Sgeo: well decrementing 0 gives 0, is what we've used. i assume we tried it out by running the C implementation at some point. 04:29:17 help 04:29:18 erk http://ideone.com/uQDIhD 04:29:19 what's this code 04:29:49 the exact bitsize isn't among the things we keep slavishly to. (some of my esolang implementations use unary.) 04:30:49 Why doesn't it die? Does scanf not stop and wait for input? 04:31:11 Or, maybe IdeOne is just broken 04:33:11 Sgeo: don't you give all input up front in IdeOne? 04:33:27 in any case, yes the interpreter has no eof checking. 04:33:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:33:54 oh wait, it shouldn't print the 0 ... 04:34:22 All I wanted to do was compile i d s and o into ;i; ;d; ;s; ;o; and eval it 04:34:24 >.> 04:34:45 well, my screen is full of > stuff which does not look promising. 04:35:21 oerjan: on IdeOne? Or actually compiling locally? 04:35:37 on IdeOne. 04:35:54 more like IdeoNe 04:37:30 Sgeo: locally on nvg it keeps prompting after any number of ^D (for eof) 04:37:38 *nvg server 04:37:44 nvg server? 04:38:11 Nordic Veteran Gamers 04:38:13 the linux server i'm running irssi from, and email 04:38:23 no, NettVerksGruppa 04:38:41 the old university computer club. 04:39:22 also my webpage is there. and i already had deadfish downloaded. 04:47:38 oh darn it wasn't the correct version, it has a much weirder scanf, no wonder it behaved weirdly. 04:48:01 o.O ? 04:48:45 my downloaded version has scanf("%c%*[^\n]%*1[\n]",&usrinput); 04:48:49 whatever that does. 04:50:23 probably some attempt at reading only one command per line, i guess. (and it doesn't work :P) 04:51:29 -!- carado has joined. 05:00:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:15:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:16:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:29:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:35:54 Is there a name for those monads which are implementable even if bind can call its continuation at most 1 time? 05:36:03 For any particular continuation it's given 05:36:16 e.g. Maybe, Identity, and not List 05:46:07 I hate Reddit sometimes http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1ltegu/97_polled_online_want_under_god_removed_from/ 05:48:17 I think the fashionable thing is to hate reddit all the time 06:19:02 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:19:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:19:43 -!- augur has joined. 06:37:22 ion: You know the whole (s,) -| (s ->) adjunction business and the way you get State from that? 06:38:01 shachaf: No. I’m not familiar with the -| symbol either, or with the word adjunction for that matter. :-P 06:38:21 (in this context) 06:39:00 Well, in Haskell in particular, an adjunction is a relationship between two functors F and G, written F -| G, such that (F a -> b) ~~ (a -> G b) 06:39:59 Are there any non-boring monads that meet the criterion I mentioned? 06:40:19 Of bind only being able to use the callback it's given at most once? 06:41:00 ion: It has lots of good properties, including that G . F is a monad and F . G is a comonad. 06:43:49 shachaf: I see. 06:44:33 ion: It comes with two operations, eta :: a -> G (F a) and eps :: F (G a) -> a 06:44:35 Can you give an example of an adjunction other than (s,) -| (s ->)? 06:44:52 With the laws fmap eps . eta = id, and eps . fmap eta = id 06:45:19 ion: Unfortunately it's hard in Haskell. :-( 06:45:39 Most interesting adjunctions involve functors that aren't endofunctors. 06:46:17 Could you give an example of one of those? 06:47:13 Well, do you know abou the category Mon of monoids/monoid homomorphisms? 06:48:23 (Do you know about categories and functors in general?) 06:49:15 Nope. I have Awodey’s book in my reading queue. 06:49:27 and Spivak’s 06:49:50 Spivak? 06:50:03 Oh, _Category Theory for Scientists_? 06:50:33 Yeah. 06:51:07 Hm. I don't know much about it. 06:51:23 Anyway, categories are so easy. 06:52:21 I’m sure i’ll love them. 06:53:02 Well, you know Category in Haskell, right? It's just that. 06:53:31 yeah 06:54:55 And do you know what a functor is between categories? 06:57:27 No. It’s not immediately obvious to me how to make that happen with the functor familiar to me (which is, i guess, really an endofunctor). 06:58:31 OK, so a category is a thing with a bunch of arrows, which can be composed. 06:59:07 To figure out which arrows can be composed, you have the objects. You can only compose two arrows if their objects match. 06:59:29 (So each arrow has a "type".) 06:59:42 And there are also identity arrows, one for each object. 07:00:40 A functor F from C to D maps each arrow "a" in C to an arrow "F a" in D, such that F id = id, and F f . F g = F (f . g) 07:00:46 Normally we write F as fmap in Haskell. 07:01:45 It also maps objects, but once you've specified how you're mapping the arrows, you can figure out the object mapping from that. 07:01:52 hmm, ok 07:02:01 Hmm, I'm being confusing, maybe because it's midnight? 07:02:20 Do you see how this corresponds to the regular Haskell Functor? 07:02:44 Does the “endo” mean that C = D? 07:02:47 Yep. 07:03:20 It maps Haskell arrows to Haskell arrows -- e.g. ord :: Char -> Int to fmap ord :: F Char -> F Int -- with the laws I mentioned above. 07:03:42 I guess i see it. What’s an example of C,D where C ≠ D? 07:03:44 It also maps objects to objects, e.g. the type Char to the type F Char. 07:03:59 Maybe we should've had a bunch more examples of categories first. 07:05:23 Maybe I'm spamming the channel... 07:05:51 It doesn’t seem like there’s other discussion going on at the moment. 07:06:06 Maybe that's because of me! 07:06:12 heh 07:06:18 OK, so let's go back to categories and give some examples. 07:06:43 And maybe a proper definition? Did we ever have one? 07:08:17 I don’t think so, apart from “like Data.Category.Category” 07:08:50 Hmm, I think I meant Control.Category, although data-category's definition is generally much better. 07:09:49 OK, let's start with something else. You know what a monoid is, right? A collection of things, which can be "multiplied" with each other, such that multiplication is associative and has an identity? 07:10:16 Sorry, i meant Control.Category.Category 07:10:30 yeah 07:10:55 E.g. ℕ with + and 0, ℕ with * and 1, String with (++) and "", and so on. 07:11:05 OK, so you know how matrices work, too, right? 07:11:31 (Or maybe not. I certainly don't.) 07:12:03 * shachaf is falling asleep. 07:12:11 `? sleep 07:12:14 More or less. I always have to look up things like how to calculate a determinant etc. 07:12:16 Sleep is for the weak. 07:12:27 thanks for the reminder, HackEgo 07:12:31 But e.g. matrix multiplication? 07:12:36 yeah 07:13:00 Matrices and matrix multiplication are funny because they're almost like a monoid but not quite. 07:13:17 Because you can't multiply any two matrices, you can only do it if they match. 07:13:42 yeah 07:13:53 So you have (*) :: M i j -> M j k -> M i k, and you have id :: M i i for any i. 07:14:21 shachaf: I see you haven't been keeping up with the news: https://collectivelyunconscious.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/matrix-dimensions-reach-agreement-at-peace-summit/ 07:14:51 So that's how categories work in general. You have a multiplication operation but it only works for things that match. 07:15:07 fizzie: Oh no! 07:15:11 Ok, matrices are a nice example. 07:15:35 So, for a category C, you have, uh... 07:15:57 A collection of objects 07:16:53 A collection of arrows, where each arrow is has a domain and codomain (source and taget) object, written as e.g. f : A -> B 07:17:50 A composition operation, (.), which can compose two matching arrows. I.e. for any two arrows f : A -> B, g : B -> C, you can write g . f : A -> C 07:18:48 For every object A, you have an identity arrow, id : A -> A, such that f . id = f, id . f = f 07:19:00 (Sometimes you specify which object you're talking about by writing e.g. id_A) 07:19:12 And composition is associative, so (f . g) . h = f . (g . h) 07:19:19 Does all that make sense? 07:21:17 @yarr 07:21:17 Splice the Mainbrace! 07:21:22 @arr 07:21:22 Arrr! 07:28:53 shachaf: I was thinking about whether matrix transposition would be a valid functor from M i j to M j i, but that would violate the F f . F g = F (f . g) rule. (The rule for this would be F f . F g = F (g . f), i think.) 07:29:10 shachaf: Yeah, makes sense. 07:30:29 OK, that kind of functor exists too, and it even turns out to be the same kind of functor. 07:31:06 Anyway, we should have some examples. 07:31:50 So there's the matrix example. 07:32:03 Also, a monoid is the same thing as a category with one object. Do you see why? 07:33:57 The single object is the type of the monoid? 07:34:35 (*) :: a -> a -> a always 07:34:47 Right. 07:34:55 Well, not "the type of the monoid" 07:35:02 The object can be anything. 07:35:40 Each arrow corresponds to an element of the monoid. The object is just there so the arrows can have a domain/codomain. 07:35:44 Yeah… Still stuck in the familiar thinking. :-) 07:36:26 Another popular simple example is a partially-ordered set. You know those? 07:41:27 Reading the Wikipedia page… Something with (≤) :: a -> a -> Maybe Bool? 07:41:54 Well, a relation, but you can think of it that way. 07:41:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:42:37 A poset is a set along with a relation ≤, with the three properties listed in that page you're probably reading right now. 07:47:22 Ok, i guess i get it. The set of subsets ordered by inclusion is a good example. 07:48:04 Right. 07:48:56 Natural numbers ordered by divisibility, too. 07:49:26 So you can look at any poset as a category, where the objects are the elements of the set, and you have an arrow from A to B iff A ≤ B 07:49:39 Otherwise you have no arrows. 07:49:50 Note that you have at most one arrow between any two objects this way. 07:51:23 I take it the identity arrow corresponds to reflexivity and composition corresponds to transitivity? 07:51:36 Yep. 07:52:02 Ok, i guess i get it. 07:52:37 (There's no category axiom that corresponds to antisymmetry, because it's still a category even without that.) 07:53:04 (I guess you could say that a poset is skeletal or something? Doesn't matter.) 07:53:18 OK. 07:53:30 So another category is one where the arrows are functions and the objects are sets. 07:53:34 Or Haskell types, for that matter. 07:54:00 (We usually pretend that Haskell is total when we say that, to make life easy.) 07:55:12 And then you have lots of other categories for lots of other things you might want to talk about. 07:55:34 E.g. you have a category where the objects are monoids and the arrows are monoid homomorphisms. 07:55:41 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:55:55 (A monoid homomorphism is a function f between monoids where f(1) = 1 and f(a)*f(b) = f(a*b).) 07:55:59 (That might look familiar!) 07:58:32 * ion makes notes 07:59:34 There are also very small categories, like the category 0 with no objects and no arrows, the category 1 with one object and one arrow, and various other ones. 08:01:07 Oh, for any category, there's its "opposite category". 08:01:17 Which is pretty much the same thing except the arrows are backwards. 08:01:55 So in the category Hask^op, an arrow from A to B is a Haskell function from B to A. 08:03:37 Does the definition of functor make sense with all of these? 08:03:53 What would a functor between two posets be? 08:05:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:09:17 (There are also a bunch of boring ways to make categories, like a category where the only arrows that exist are identity arrows, but who cares about those.) 08:10:21 OK, I'm going to sleep. 08:10:58 I just finished writing notes about everything up to now. Good night, and thanks a lot. I’ll think about the question about a functor between two posets. 08:11:44 Oh, if you're here you can probably figure it out. 08:12:19 Just give the definition of a functor, and replace "an arrow from A to B" with "we know that A ≤ B". 08:12:39 (You don't care *which* arrow because there's at most one.) 08:14:06 Anyway, sleep. 08:14:49 I’m a bit too tired to concentrate as well, i’ll watch a TV show episode or two with a friend and get some sleep. I’ll continue from this point at a later time. 08:49:36 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:09:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 09:46:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:47:40 -!- augur has joined. 09:49:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:50:20 -!- augur has joined. 09:51:17 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:50:13 -!- yorick has joined. 10:55:26 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:59:50 -!- everquester has joined. 11:01:55 -!- everquester has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:02:17 -!- everquester has joined. 11:50:44 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:52:40 -!- everquester has quit. 11:55:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:07 -!- boily has joined. 11:59:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:01:12 good diæ̈resis morning! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/IMAG0024.jpg 12:01:28 (picture taken Wednesday around 6pm UTC-4) 12:02:15 @tell tswett no idea. what are you referring to? 12:02:15 Consider it noted. 12:07:54 Good räksmörgås 12:10:47 ~duck räksmörgås 12:10:47 --- No relevant information 12:16:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:17:46 It's a swedish word that happens to contain all of our letters with diacritics 12:17:58 sometimes used to test for encoding issues 12:19:27 öh. 12:21:25 FireFly: Now you've made me hungry. 12:22:01 (I got two wisdom teeth extracted the other day, eating has been a bit tricky lately.) 12:25:41 * boily remembers being on narcotics when he had his teeth disappear into a dentist 12:25:47 -!- conehead has joined. 12:31:30 fizzie: which one did you have removed? 12:33:36 Both left ones. 12:33:52 I also had both right ones done before the summer. 12:36:29 weird pattern, but it sounds more pragmatic than "top two" then "bottom two". 12:36:49 the top procedure is like just about anything else. a little hurt, but nothing more. 12:36:58 but the bottom two... ooooooh... *shudders* 12:37:47 The idea was that I'd still have one side of the mouth to chew with. 12:38:09 Except the other side's so swollen I'd just be biting my cheek the whole time. But I guess it'll subside. 12:43:13 mom's blender was my best friend during those days. liquefied puréed veggies in the morning, at lunch, at night. room temperature. 12:44:52 That might have been a good idea. 12:55:25 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:25:30 'morning, folks 13:25:38 Today is Donut-day 13:25:42 All rejoice 13:26:05 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:26:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:32:40 -!- Bike has joined. 13:32:55 the nearest Tim is 650 m away. I can donut. all is not lost! 13:35:44 ^^ 13:35:56 I am the Donut Bringer at my workplace 13:37:09 spoken as a true Canadian. 13:38:38 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:40:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:43:38 -!- conehead has joined. 13:47:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:53:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 13:54:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:57:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:59:47 AND HERE WE GO AGAIN 14:00:06 Canada Cup 2013, "I can't maintain a connection to save my life" edition 14:00:57 -!- Solain has joined. 14:01:03 hello 14:01:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:21 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 14:02:58 -!- Solain has quit (Client Quit). 14:04:06 Two minutes 14:04:11 That has to be some kind of record 14:04:34 I looked away from the window for *two* minutes 14:04:43 And he came and went during that time 14:04:55 technically it was two minutes and two seconds 14:05:13 Well, probably three for me 14:05:14 I hear some amateur radio enthusiasts can achieve subsecond connections with only 500 mW rigs. 14:07:52 imagine walking up to your friends or calling on a phone and saying "hello" and they just ignore you and you wait for two whole minutes and they don't even acknowledge your presence 14:09:17 Hi Mnoqy :-) 14:09:20 hi 14:09:35 Imagine putting up a note on a billboard at a workplace saying "hello" and people keep working for two whole minutes and they don't even acknowledge your presence =P 14:10:02 If he had pinged me, I'd have answered quickly 14:10:04 ^^ 14:10:09 Also, hi mnoqy 14:10:19 yes the joke is that thinking about irc like that is horribly wrong but solain seems to do it anyway 14:10:28 I keep seeing overlap in channels I'm in on different networks. It's fun. 14:10:34 analphabillboardetism is a major problem, rampant in developed countries. 14:10:39 mnoqy: Most IRC newbies are like that. 14:11:26 "Hello, I came to the dedicated help channel for a project, and there are like 15 ops in here that can probably help me with my easily googlable problem, can anyone help me?" 14:11:31 *waits 30 seconds* 14:11:35 *quits* 14:14:04 or, "hey, I have this problem" *32 seconds* "solved it myself. kthxbye!" 14:16:37 Sometimes there's an insult before the quit. 14:16:50 Like, "well, this was a waste of time *quits*". 14:27:45 Ah, yes. The old ragequit variation: cause rage, then quit 14:44:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:49:58 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:31:20 I like norwegian music. http://youtu.be/PaEnaoydUUo?list=PLfNe3nGQENtP3VCn1t1pybju9ffSPBohU 15:36:51 And norwegian music love you~~ 15:37:38 That's the second time someone's mentioned Ylvis today. I hadn't heard of them before... 15:38:32 norway always happen at least twice. 15:38:50 `quote norway always happen at least twice. 15:38:52 No output. 15:38:55 ... 15:38:56 Welp 15:39:00 `quoteadd norway always happen at least twice. 15:39:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found 15:39:05 WELL CRAP 15:39:14 `complain This is broken, please fix 15:39:15 Complaint filed. Thank you. 15:39:29 Roujo: have you tried quoting it off and on again? 15:39:35 I have 15:39:37 Killed it 15:39:39 Had to do CPR 15:39:42 On a bot, so yeah 15:44:58 I need a shirt with “once, twice, thrice, fouice...” just to disgust English majors who pass by. 15:45:24 like, wander around McGill. 15:46:44 Heh =P 15:46:59 fiice 15:47:02 siice 15:47:27 If you're not dead by then, you should probably become a survivorman or something 15:52:24 it's easier to get swallowed by a random pothole than to get beaten to death by a university student here... 15:53:58 Unless you're pro-tuition raise 15:53:59 =P 15:57:10 either you get 728ed, or smashed by a gratteux de guitare. if I'm about to go out, then I'll do it with style and total grammar disregard. 15:57:54 (728: matricule of a brutish policewoman who got embroiled in unlawful beatings and stuff.) 15:58:10 («gratteux de guitare»: one of the many epithets she attributed to the protesting students.) 15:58:44 (total grammar disregard: me I'm agree with grammar of angliche.) 16:03:22 -!- Rafajafar has joined. 16:04:02 hi guys, I remember meeting some brilliant folks in here once. Maybe you can help. I have a very specific problem and am looking for a solution that might already exist 16:04:16 I'm searching for a solution that can do sliding-window searches on collections of ordered data. Think if you've got fingerprints for each frame of a movie: f(1), f(2)... f(n) and you intercepted a subclip from that movie and have it's finger prints s(1), s(2)...s(n) 16:04:32 now I could do this in any language, really, but I need something that will index and do a fuzzy search 16:04:46 -!- k_k_k has joined. 16:04:53 ou needed a specific comparison function to compare one fingerprint to another 16:05:17 and that function is essentially a euclidean distance function with a tolerance threshold 16:05:42 do you guys know of any language that would be primo for that, OR, do you know of an esoteric data storage system for such a sliding-window database 16:14:06 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:14:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:16:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:20:22 -!- conehead has joined. 16:20:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:20:36 elliott: you forgot to stealth your ops 16:20:50 also, I've been creating an esolang :) 16:20:59 it's probably my second-best esolang ever, after Underload 16:21:04 err, that exists, I mean 16:21:30 ais523: I didn't get a reply on my offer to kick someone! 16:21:33 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 16:21:47 elliott: it's easy to forget, I've been yelled at in other channels for that :) 16:22:29 sadly, I don't have an impl or any programs yet; I was considering holding off on releasing it until I had some 16:23:06 what's it like? 16:23:23 "Snowflake is a reversible, self-modifying, data-parallel esoteric programming language created by User:ais523 in 2013." 16:23:27 first line of the wiki article I'm writing atm 16:23:41 also the "self-modifying" is more literal than normal 16:23:46 -!- Rafajafar has left. 16:23:51 executing Snowflake programs actually alters the interpreter 16:24:44 (this also makes it impossible to compile; if you had a compiler, you could compile a program, then delete the compiler, then executing the program would leave you with no implementation to modify) 16:25:01 I'm glad you're still insane. 16:25:25 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:25:35 :) 16:26:15 at one point during its development, a hello world program would likely need strong AI 16:26:18 but I toned it down a bit 16:26:52 completely independent of all the self-modification stuff, it also has a fun set of primitives 16:26:55 -!- zt has joined. 16:27:13 it's stack-based, but doesn't really have any of the usual primitives 16:27:19 it almost has () from Underload, except sometimes not 16:27:25 also it has rotate 16:27:34 but that's about it if you wanted something sane 16:27:51 oh, it also almost has cons 16:28:41 -!- zt has quit (Client Quit). 16:30:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:32:22 incidentally, I also had another language idea 16:32:48 basically, it looks for the eight most commonly occurring repeated patterns in the source, and does some statistical analysis 16:32:58 then interprets them as BF instructions and execute 16:33:13 it'd save everyone time if we had an interp for all these pointless BF derivatives preëmptively 16:33:36 good idea 16:34:30 ais523: Why did people yell at you because you had your op-hat on? 16:34:35 actually, you could get like 99% accuracy just by printing "Hello world" if the program couldn't be recognised 16:34:47 Roujo: it's not so much yelling, it's more just reminding people to take it off again 16:34:56 you don't want everything you say to be perceived as official 16:35:05 it's like trying to play Agora entirely on a-b, but worse 16:35:10 Ah, right 16:35:54 Levels the talking field, true 16:36:34 the other thing is that people joining a channel with visible ops typically assume that there's a troll attack going on /right now/ 16:36:36 I'm used to talking in channels where everyone is +o, so I didn't get why =P 16:36:40 Heh 16:37:14 that's unlikely to happen here; elliott has little tolerance for known troublemakers, and unknown troublemakers are normally much too fun to toy with to actually use op powers on them 16:37:33 ^^ 16:38:14 also, re the topic: "peöple"? 16:38:22 I can pronounce that but it doesn't seem to be a real word 16:38:52 also, is there any particular reason why LaTeX? 16:39:01 (or at least, LaTeX styling and fonts) 16:41:05 oh right, someone's just added a bunch of diaereses even where they don't apply :( 16:41:42 also I dislike the way backquote is rendered 16:42:20 who should I send these comments to, anyway? I instantly assumed Gregor was responsible, but browsing through the reasons behind this, I can't think of any reason why he would be 16:42:30 (also the fact that it's on dropbox not codu implies it's likely someone else) 16:43:01 ais523: The wisdom PDF is boily's work, unless I misremember. 16:43:03 Alexandre Boily, i'd guess 16:43:07 right 16:43:13 boily: ^ 16:43:56 also it didn't render the mojibake properly 16:43:58 `? mojibake 16:44:01 mojibake _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ̦̻ͭͭͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ­_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌͨÌÌ´Í 16:44:15 err, yes it did, the entry is either broken or not really like any mojibake I've ever seen 16:44:40 The backtick is very confusing, yes, I think someone already complained about it? 16:44:55 hi ais523 16:45:02 hi 16:45:52 also, I'm disappointed that nobody's talking about Snowflake :( 16:46:40 you didn't tell us you finished the article! 16:46:50 oh right 16:46:52 oh god, it's huge again. 16:47:00 it's a complex language 16:47:05 thus why I don't have an interp yet 16:47:18 btw, if you write a Snowflake interp, I strongly recommend keeping a backup 16:47:43 also, `? ursala is great 16:47:45 `? ursala 16:47:47 ​~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 16:47:52 ais523: polarised nested lists is an oklopolism, by the way 16:48:00 elliott: good to hear it 16:48:13 he had a beautiful language based around them that I forget the details of 16:48:23 it probably wasn't Snowflake 16:48:29 but it's a natural way to do reversibility 16:48:45 because you can use a polarity flip to easily handle error conditions in a reversible way 16:49:05 `complain The backtick doesn't render right 16:49:06 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:49:24 it was nop-based, I think 16:49:35 I think it used the syntax <...> for positive lists and >...< for negative ones 16:49:39 using whitespace to disambiguate 16:49:42 oh no, this PDF has the QDB appended 16:49:46 I have to stop reading for safety reasons 16:49:49 so you could say <>< <>< <>> ><> 16:49:53 last time I laughed so much I had trouble breathing 16:50:00 elliott: how very INTERcAL 16:50:02 *INTERCAL 16:50:46 `complain missing line break before quote 81!! 16:50:47 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:52:12 `complain also 95 and probably others... 16:52:14 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:52:34 btw, did anyone see this year's ICFP contest? I saw it late so didn't participate, but it reminded me a lot of oklopol-Clue 16:52:51 ais523: The "guess the function" one? 16:52:55 yes 16:53:06 Yeah, it sounded interesting 16:53:09 -!- conehead has joined. 16:53:29 also, is there any particular reason why LaTeX? 16:53:39 Probably because boily really likes LaTeX 16:53:42 I guess 16:53:48 LaTeX makes pretty much everything look academic 16:53:57 in the same way that Latin makes pretty much anything look profound 16:54:19 `complain (By the way, what with the pineapples?) 16:54:21 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:54:58 I like the pineapples 16:55:07 it's like the slices of lime, but more LaTeX 16:55:19 `? bienvenue 16:55:21 Bienvenue sur le centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d'informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l'autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 16:55:22 `cat bin/complain 16:55:23 echo $0- >> /dev/null; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.; 16:55:54 Yeah, isn't it great? 16:55:55 Hmm, it should echo $@ instead 16:56:02 shachaf: the implementation hardly matters, because the logs are greppable 16:56:05 same way that the list works 16:56:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:56:19 i see a pretty obvious optimization to `complain 16:56:22 shachaf: Ah, possible. I'm not all that good at bash =P 16:56:31 I've actually started doing something similar in other channels 16:56:32 And what's the - about? 16:56:46 shachaf: >I'm not all that good at bash 16:56:49 I thought it did something 16:56:55 `run echo $0- 16:56:57 bash- 16:56:59 it does, it adds a hyphen to the end of the message 16:57:01 I didn't have access to a term to confirm 16:57:03 Well yeah 16:57:08 I thought it did something *more* 16:57:16 good thing it doesn't matter 16:57:22 Which would explain why my other script didn't work >_> 16:57:22 `run sed -i 's/\$0-/"$@"/' bin/complain 16:57:23 so anyway, the /dev/null is filling up with copies of "bash-" atm 16:57:27 No output. 16:57:40 `run echo $@ 16:57:41 No output. 16:57:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:57:49 shachaf: I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to correctly handle whitespace in arguments there 16:57:58 it doesn't matter for at least two independent reasons 16:58:09 (echo adds space between its arguments, and the output's going to /dev/null anyway) 16:58:49 ais523: I feel the need to use correct idioms by default when possible. 16:58:53 I guess a habit that quotes arguments correctly is a good habit to have 16:59:01 Rather than think "should I use quotes here or " -- yes, that. 16:59:06 `run cat bin/complain 16:59:08 echo "$@" >> /dev/null; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.; 16:59:10 Except $@ is very special and gets quoted in a special way. 16:59:11 Nice 16:59:13 But oh well. 16:59:38 well $@'s entire purpose is to get quoted correctly 16:59:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:59:54 `run sed -i 's/>>/>/g' bin/complain 16:59:58 No output. 17:00:02 `run cat bin/complain 17:00:03 echo "$@" > /dev/null; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.; 17:00:03 $@ is weird because «"$@"» gets split into multiple arguments. 17:00:11 There, that's even better 17:00:24 `complain ais523 doesn't visit us enough 17:00:25 Complaint filed. Thank you. 17:00:48 shachaf: well, I spent days of thought + an evening writing a new, complex esolang which is some of my best work 17:00:54 and #esoteric continues not discussing esolangs 17:01:04 at this point I'm not sure it's possible to get ontopic discussion here 17:01:11 and although I don't mind offtopic discussion 17:01:16 the ontopic discussion is the reason I come here 17:01:24 Womp womp 17:01:27 if there's no reason for me to be here, I don't visit 17:01:51 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:02:08 Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snowflake 17:04:12 Hey, that's the name of my Linux distro X-D 17:04:26 no reason I can't name an esolang after a Linux distro :) 17:04:31 (although it wasn't, we can pretend if you like) 17:06:24 “due for the tendency for documentation to get out of date quickly” lul 17:07:01 ais523, sec 17:07:26 Roujo: $0- is a syntax, it's just not the bash syntax. 17:07:52 What syntax is it, then? =) 17:07:57 ais523, that sounds pretty cool (from the introduction, will read the rest in a bit, got some stuff to take care of first) 17:08:08 fair enough 17:08:19 I am working on an interp, incidentally, but it's not finished ye 17:08:21 *yet 17:08:37 Roujo: I don't quite recall, but it certainly was a syntax somewhere. ircII scripts? Something. 17:08:44 ais523, so unlike Feather it is doable? 17:08:51 hopefully I'll eventually have a working hello world that can run successfully more than once 17:08:58 Vorpal: *unlike Feather it is possible for me to implement 17:09:04 fair enough 17:09:10 I'm still convinced that Feather is implementable in general, I've just proven myself not up to the task 17:09:19 -!- Bike has joined. 17:09:49 fizzie: Ah, yes. That's the way scripting works on KVIrc. Thanks =) 17:12:43 ais523, "it should be stored in files encoded in ASCII (more complex encodings are unnecessary due to the highly limited character set)" <-- that seems to work for most languages though... Can only think of a couple of examples that require more than ASCII. 17:13:01 «lol Perl 6» 17:13:01 and it is impossible to write a Snowflake compiler, due to the possibility that the compiler would be deleted before the program was run (thus leaving the program with no implementation to modify) <-- hm, not quite sure about this one. Would a JIT be impossible? 17:13:12 Gregor: you can write << and >> instead 17:13:14 Gregor, that an some encodings of INTERCAL 17:13:19 or qqw/.../ 17:13:20 ais523, oh? okay 17:13:21 I think 17:13:26 then just some encodings of intercal 17:13:33 Vorpal: I guess a JIT would be possible, indeed 17:13:35 ais523: Yeah, digraphs and trigraphs worked so well for C ;) 17:13:58 `? lachine 17:14:00 lachine? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:14:00 | 17:14:00 º¯`\o 17:14:18 hmm, that script interaction isn't going to get annoying at all 17:14:27 don't worry, it already has 17:14:35 we're on the road to acceptance now 17:15:07 can we not just shove a null or a zwsp in the middle of the face 17:15:18 clearly, the fix is to give HackEgo ops, so that it can temporarily mute myndzi when erroring out from `? and then unmute em a few seconds later 17:15:29 the response was added solely for the purpose of `? 17:15:30 heh 17:15:31 * ais523 is in the mood for excessively complex fixes right now 17:15:32 so I like that solution even more 17:15:42 actually it'd do well to stop botloops generally 17:15:45 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o HackEgo. 17:15:50 we should have HackEgo always opped 17:16:01 it's a challenge, to get it to send arbitrary IRC commands 17:16:12 "As such, there is an effective column of tarnished thread stretching off into infinity." 17:16:16 I like this 17:16:28 is the joke that everybody's too horribly lonery to just ask myndzi to stop 17:16:32 elliott, wasn't that disabled in the wake of the plazma thing 17:16:46 is this going to be another `ls wisdom 17:17:10 Bike: it's more that we're esoprogrammers, and that solution is insufficiently creative 17:17:27 myndzi's wisdom explains it: 17:17:27 ais523, my mind is not in a state for reading the execution model right now. Way too tired to remember the start of the paragraph when I reach the end of it. I guess I'll give you some feedback tomorrow. 17:17:28 `? myndzi 17:17:30 myndzi keeps us all on our feet 17:17:36 uh huh, uh huh, sure 17:17:45 Vorpal: fair enough 17:18:28 ais523: Lachine is where I live. boily and I realized that not only do we live in the same city (Montréal), he's the brother of one of my friends. =P 17:18:37 Roujo: right 17:18:46 Roujo, that is pretty funny 17:18:46 I figured from the topic that there had to be at least two people there 17:18:49 but didn't know what it was 17:19:31 -!- carado has joined. 17:21:28 Hmm 17:22:23 What does ! in double quotes in bash actually do; and, is it actually worth the inconvenience of not being able to write exclamation marks at all in double quotes? 17:22:44 The answer to your second question is no. 17:23:27 The best part is that you can't even up-arrow and fix the old line. 17:23:49 `run echo "!!" 17:23:50 ​!! 17:23:57 Also it's only in interactive mode. 17:23:59 `run echo !! 17:24:01 ​!! 17:24:01 Oh 17:24:14 oh, it just interpolates the last ccommand. 17:24:16 like sudo !!. 17:24:22 or... something. 17:24:22 $ echo test \ test \ $ echo "!-1" \ echo "echo test" \ echo test \ $ 17:24:30 Yeah, that's what it does for me 17:24:31 yeah, it's for interpolating previous commands 17:24:38 I just checked from the docs 17:24:51 bash has a man page, and less's search isn't that awful (although info would be better) 17:24:51 Very useful when you forget sudo 17:25:06 Well, it *was* useful when my "home" key didn't work 17:25:07 i'm running windows right now so 17:26:01 KITTEN/ANTIKITTEN 17:26:03 Awesome 17:26:05 I'm not going to act ignorant and pretend that everyone has man pages even on Windows 17:26:22 although I did convert the entirety of Perl's documentation to HTML so that I could view it on Windows 17:26:37 (that documentation that ships with Perl, that is; not all of CPAN, that'd take ages) 17:28:42 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:28:54 -!- Bike has joined. 17:30:30 back from lunch, I got talked about myself, and if anyone wants to contribute to the Thingue, holler and I'll add you to the github repo. 17:30:34 OK, third question: is there actually any reason for echo "\!" to print \! 17:30:35 (or nooodl too, I guess.) 17:30:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:30:42 Phantom_Hoover: if you're doing PHP, yes. 17:30:52 oh right the thing! 17:31:31 boily: i couldn't get it to compile because my latex installation doesn't support cjk characters... i have no idea how to fix this 17:32:05 nooodl: I use the texlive-langcjk package on archlinux. 17:33:04 Message from syslogd@dragon at Sep 4 23:21:00 ... 17:33:04 kernel:[189848.967709] journal commit I/O error 17:33:09 That looks... worrying 17:33:17 Ouch 17:33:46 Yeah, an external USB 3 HDD is remounted as read-only on that system 17:33:57 The backup disk to be specific 17:34:09 good thing syslogd told you, then 17:34:18 Oh crap =P 17:34:21 ais523, it was actually printed to the console 17:34:26 Read-only backup sounds like a good idea 17:34:38 Roujo, seems to have happened during a backup 17:34:41 * boily dat extrema unctio ad Vorpalem 17:35:00 [189848.966756] EXT4-fs warning (device sde1): ext4_end_bio:250: I/O error writing to inode 15076550 (offset 17760256 size 126976 starting block 56993246) 17:35:00 [189848.966758] Buffer I/O error on device sde1, logical block 56992990 17:35:00 [189848.966760] Buffer I/O error on device sde1, logical block 56992991 17:35:10 thousand of lines like that 17:35:12 Vorpal: it probably sent it to all VTs 17:35:14 wuh oh. 17:35:17 ais523, yep 17:35:55 ais523, well, the disk is like less than two weeks old, but the USB 3 hub it is on is much newer than that, in fact the first after buying the hub 17:36:03 your HDD is HDDead, jim. 17:36:46 nooodl: could you send me the log of the pdf not compiling? 17:38:14 boily, the HDD seems fine after remounting it. No SMART errors. A bit of journal recovery. Going to run a SMART tests on it. 17:38:22 Hm 17:38:31 boily, I suspect it might be USB3-related actually 17:38:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:38:43 or related to that new hub, since it happened in the middle of the backup 17:39:04 oh. bad thing, that. not karmic at all. 17:39:34 Sep 4 23:21:00 tux kernel: [189848.848388] hub 4-2:1.0: hub_port_status failed (err = -71) 17:39:38 Yep 17:40:01 boily: karmic's a bit old by now, isn't it? 17:40:10 Sep 4 23:20:52 tux kernel: [189840.988070] usb 6-1.3.2: USB disconnect, device number 91 17:40:11 Sep 4 23:20:52 tux kernel: [189841.314285] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: ERROR no room on ep ring 17:40:11 Sep 4 23:20:52 tux kernel: [189841.314289] hub 3-2:1.0: activate --> -12 17:40:11 Sep 4 23:20:59 tux kernel: [189848.319721] usb 4-2.4: reset SuperSpeed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd 17:40:11 Sep 4 23:20:59 tux kernel: [189848.335562] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff8801d24320c0 17:40:13 Sep 4 23:20:59 tux kernel: [189848.335568] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff8801d2432100 17:40:16 Sep 4 23:21:00 tux kernel: [189848.611473] usb 4-2.4: reset SuperSpeed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd 17:40:19 I/O failing due to the USB link failing is reasonable 17:40:21 Sep 4 23:21:00 tux kernel: [189848.627292] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff8801d24320c0 17:40:24 Sep 4 23:21:00 tux kernel: [189848.627297] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff8801d2432100 17:40:27 Sep 4 23:21:00 tux kernel: [189848.848388] hub 4-2:1.0: hub_port_status failed (err = -71) 17:40:29 Yep, looks like USB fucked up badly 17:40:55 Seems to have happened like a second after I disconnected my phone from another USB controller where it was charging 17:41:02 Less than a second 17:41:04 err -71 is bad. it indeed is an USB cabling error, usually. remove any intermediate steps or hops or everything, change cables, hope for the best. 17:41:20 boily, oh? Is there a list of these numbers somewhere? 17:41:20 boily: did you just look that up, or did you have it memorized? 17:41:24 Might be useful 17:42:32 Vorpal: probably. in fact, that may be very useful. 17:42:42 Anyway I *believe* [189840.988070] usb 6-1.3.2: USB disconnect, device number 91 is my phone disconnecting 17:42:45 ais523: no, -71 is common and happened to me multiple times. 17:42:55 right 17:43:12 The bus matches, the device doesn't though, but that seems to change on every disconnect or connect 17:43:13 boily works in a linux box. He probably has every man page printed on his desk. 17:43:30 Roujo, he IS a linux box. 17:43:33 ais523: I was doing mobile development on android devices, and I had connection problems with one phone, for example. 17:43:34 Nice 17:43:36 Pretty cool AI 17:43:58 Roujo: why would you print man pages? apropos or even grep are better at searching than pper 17:43:59 *paper 17:44:16 some day, I'll build an automated arduinoed facepalm machine, and I'll dedicate it to you guys. 17:44:25 boily, my phone seems to have a glitchy connector nowdays. Just over a year old too. Charging still works fine though, it is just that data might glitch out of you touch the connector 17:44:40 ais523: What if you don't have access to your computer? 17:44:48 Roujo: we have a custom man page about how to brew coffee, scotched taped to the wall next to the machine. 17:44:49 Roujo: then typically I don't need the content of the man page 17:45:00 ais523: Be Prepared is what I say 17:45:15 in the very few cases where I've wanted to check a man page and not had my regular computer, /and/ the computer I was actually using didn't have man pages installed 17:45:24 Vorpal: then it's like an old dusty NES: try to find the correct ritual that works, and stick to it. 17:45:27 there was an Internet connection I could reasonably use, so I looked them up online 17:46:00 boily, my ritual is charging over USB but running an SSH server on the phone and mounting it over sshfs instead 17:46:01 Right, the Internet 17:46:03 Forgot about that 17:46:10 boily, works better than bloody MTP anyway 17:46:34 Roujo: I actually /can/ conceive of a situation where this wouldn't work, but it's never actually happened so far 17:46:45 and there's a limit to the number of things I can carry around just in case 17:46:46 boily, fuck MTP I say. Why did they think it was a good idea. 17:46:51 I'm curious... What would that situation be? 17:46:54 I used to carry out a printout of the FIDE Rules of Chess, for emergencies 17:46:58 and it actually came in handy once 17:47:02 Vorpal: that thing I've been avoiding since its inception? 17:47:04 but I don't any more, it's not worth it 17:47:07 boily, you can't do anything useful over it, like rsyncing your music library. 17:47:10 Roujo: programming a Linux-based microcontroller 17:47:18 boily, most likely 17:47:19 Ah, true 17:47:25 some of the labs where I've done it had Windows computers only, and only intermittently working Internet 17:47:34 so if the Internet had gone down, I could be left manpageless 17:47:34 Vorpal: it's useful, therefore you can't. 17:47:48 boily, quite 17:48:15 lsusb is a bit on the fence about my phone model: 17:48:17 Bus 006 Device 050: ID 04e8:6860 Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd GT-I9100 Phone [Galaxy S II], GT-I9300 Phone [Galaxy S III], GT-P7500 [Galaxy Tab 10.1] 17:48:38 The second one is correct 17:48:40 probably those models use the same identifier 17:48:43 so lsusb has no way to tell which 17:48:47 yep most likely 17:49:07 my desk is manpageless: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/IMAG0028.jpg 17:49:17 ais523, however, it does show up as GT-I9300 in Windows for example (as an MTP device). So that managed to detect it somehow 17:49:26 manpage, the page for men 17:49:27 boily: did you feel the need to photograph your desk just to prove there were no man pages on it? 17:49:41 boily, work or home? 17:49:47 also not enough monitors 17:49:50 that looks like work 17:49:55 made with VELLUM 17:49:55 home wouldn't have a room that shape, most likely 17:50:00 Hm true 17:50:03 and yes Vorpal 17:50:03 ais523: yes. I have honour! 17:50:11 Phantom_Hoover, ? 17:50:16 Vorpal: work. 17:50:18 boily: Nice desk. I like it. 17:50:24 Mine is a bit... messier. 17:50:27 this isn't sweden where everyone lives in rooms the size of a small house 17:50:32 I actually don't have a desk atm 17:50:41 as of yesterday 17:50:47 elliott: can you voice me, please? 17:50:50 the teaching contract thing ended 17:50:55 boily: yes 17:51:01 so I gave the desk back because I have no reason to use it and the department's short atm 17:51:09 Phantom_Hoover, eh, not that roomy in my place. I just thought it looked a bit unordered for a work desk 17:51:28 (well, I actually returned a key that opens most of the doors in the building, rather than the desk; the desk was in the right place, the problem was that the wrong person was there) 17:51:38 Vorpal: my work desk was basically empty 17:51:46 this isn't sweden, where all desktop items are aligned upon perfect euclidean boundaries 17:51:47 I spent 4 years with nothing there but CPU/monitor/mouse/keyboard 17:52:01 ais523, what about the HDD? 17:52:02 `run echo "An ATM is when you're withdrawing money right now at a machine that will steal your relevant info" >wisdom/atm 17:52:06 No output. 17:52:07 i assume swiss desktop items are noneuclidean and gigeresque. 17:52:08 and a filing cabinet with a bunch of paper in (most of which has now been recycled or sent for secure disposal) 17:52:12 Vorpal: CPU tower container thing 17:52:20 ais523, XD 17:52:33 there was probably an HDD in there too, although all the filesystems I use regularly were NFS 17:52:41 *used 17:52:42 elliott: you mathemanswered me, didn't you? 17:52:46 ais523, oh? A thin client? 17:52:47 well, still use from time to time 17:52:47 and dutch desktop items disobey all laws of perspective? 17:53:06 Vorpal: no, it was like a powerful quad-core machine or something 17:53:11 Heh 17:53:19 but the storage was all elsewhere, for centralisation reasons 17:53:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:53:34 ais523, a quad core is not that powerful these days, more like the norm nowdays. Impressive how technology progresses 17:53:46 Even my phone is quad core after all 17:53:47 yeah, but it was powerful at the time 17:54:01 it's quite rare that I actually used the power 17:54:07 My phone is way more powerful than my first computer. By order of magnitudes. 17:54:13 Roujo: I githubly found you. 17:54:20 ^^ 17:54:21 probably the only time was when I used Virtualbox for marking the keyloggers 17:54:28 And my first computer was a first-model iBook, so it isn't like I'm talking about a 386 or such here 17:54:53 mostly because rebooting would have been a pain if they went wrong and crashed the kernel 17:54:57 ais523, marking the keyloggers? What? 17:55:04 Key loggers? That sounds... nefarious 17:55:06 Vorpal: the students were asked to write keyloggers 17:55:08 I was asked to mark them 17:55:13 Heh 17:55:19 it's quite a simple exercise that you can give starting-out kernel developers 17:55:27 Ah yes 17:55:37 you only have to hook one interrupt, and it has the basics of things like memory allocation discipline and proper locking 17:55:44 and making files in /proc 17:56:06 ais523, I would assume it works differently for PS/2, serial, USB and so on? 17:56:39 I don't think it did in that exercise, possibly they were hooking at a different abstraction level 17:56:44 ah 17:57:05 or else the course designer didn't realise that would be a problem, and it just happened to use the same virtualised port in VirtualBox 17:57:19 Ah 17:57:22 (the students were working in a lab of computers set aside for that sort of thing, which get wiped afterwards) 17:57:34 I can believe that the people in charge of the course didn't think it would be a problem 17:57:43 Right 17:58:12 boily: How do you get that sweet, short URL? 17:58:15 For dropbox%? 17:58:17 it was an 11-week course, designed to be worked on at the same time as 5 other courses, about assembler and C and the GNU dialect of C and C++ and Linux kernel development 17:58:19 Not that you ever see anything but USB these days. Or I guess whatever laptops use for their internal keyboards... 17:58:26 Hm what *do* those use? 17:58:35 Internal PS/2 or something better? 17:58:43 PS/2 would make sense 17:58:56 but it could believably be something else 17:59:11 ais523, seems like it would be costlier to not reuse the existing USB bus, like almost all bluetooth modules do in laptops anyway 17:59:43 Vorpal: well then you need a bunch of hardware to convert the keypresses to the USB protocol 17:59:46 might still be cheaper, though, I guess 18:00:02 Ah, found it 18:00:04 it would depend on whether complexity on the motherboard or keyboard was more costly 18:00:04 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/a9v6ve4elg7m36p/20130906_135201.jpg 18:00:25 which would likely depend on what connectors happened to be on the motherboard 18:00:33 Roujo, nice office. 18:00:38 because you're probably ordering them COTS, rather than having them custom-made 18:00:44 "office", yeah =P 18:00:53 Roujo, oh? I thought it wasn't home 18:00:59 More like "mostly open cubicule", but yeah, office 18:01:00 Roujo, seems like you suffer a 16:9 monitor though 18:01:21 Vorpal: What do you suggest? =P 18:01:24 do people actually work on their desktop computers at offices? 18:01:28 Roujo, 16:10 18:01:31 I used my tiny laptop/almost a netbook 18:01:41 at least partly because it was outside the firewall 18:01:47 thus no real risk if I messed up 18:01:49 ais523, we have laptops in mostly permanent docking stations at work 18:02:02 ais523: I do. Few people use laptops here. 18:02:06 Vorpal: that mostly defeats the point of a laptop 18:02:32 ais523, They are pretty useless outside of those docks, since they use 180 W PSUs to run at max speed. Battery time is abyssmal. But they are really good when compiling code. Top end quad core i7s 18:02:37 I carry my laptop pretty much everywhere 18:02:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:02:41 And massive SSDs inside 18:02:53 And as much RAM as you can fit in them. 18:02:59 also, the battery time on this is just about sufficient to boot it and enter your password 18:03:02 I think mine has 12 GB RAM 18:03:04 because it's several years old 18:03:13 it used to be like 8 hours, but modern batteries lose duration so quickly 18:03:38 Roujo: sorry, stuck with a hairy XML problem here. 18:03:54 ais523, anyway I couldn't work on a laptop, too small screen. I regluarly use 2 external 24" 16:10 monitors + the built in laptop 16:9 monitors for various windows 18:03:56 boily: Shave it? 18:04:12 I really would like to, but my SO wont let me near any blade. 18:04:29 Vorpal: I can fit two 80-column programs side by side on this screen 18:04:33 which is big enough for me 18:04:39 on occasion sometimes I'll split it into 4 18:04:42 both vertically and horizontally 18:04:43 Not enough for me. 18:04:53 Roujo: but yeah, dropbox.com → dossier Public → clic droit sur l'image → Copier le lien public. 18:05:01 Vorpal: what, 80 columns or 4 programs? 18:05:54 ais523, need an entire monitor to run the various component simulations, since I develop for a distributed embedded system, with like 4 units having monitors on their own, plus a window for the operator panel with the levers and what not. And a window with the IO module simulator 18:06:15 lots of simulated CAN buses there 18:06:17 why does a simulation need a monitor at all? 18:06:22 * ais523 is confused 18:06:45 ais523, well, if you want to mess with the GUI the users see. It is a control system for mining equipment. And there are several screens in the real machine. 18:06:49 ah right 18:07:01 yeah, developing GUIs is a decent reason to have a larger monitor than everyone else 18:07:06 so you can have their monitor + other things 18:07:14 ofc, this is a reason for everyone else to have small monitors 18:07:17 otherwise that couldn't be posible 18:08:06 ais523, plus there is the manging client used in the control room or mine office and the coordination server for remote allocation (and some system configuration), but I can't have non-overlapping windows if I have *everything* open. 18:08:23 * ais523 hopes that "manging" is a typo for "mangling" rather than "managing" 18:08:53 ais523, the latter alas. It just shows where all the units are on a map, and how much fuel and so on they have 18:09:01 And where in the drill plans they are 18:09:28 ais523, since each application also opens a 80x25 terminal window for the log/debug output, the screens fills quickly 18:10:24 We use a autohotkey script to move all the windows around after starting the simulation. I hate autohotkeys syntax with a passion. 18:10:30 autohotkey's* 18:11:15 this is beginning to sound increasingly WTF over time 18:11:29 -!- Bike has joined. 18:11:30 I guess one really good thing about working for a CS department 18:11:45 is that the sysadmins / computer technicians (they're the same people there) are really really good at their jobs 18:11:52 hah 18:11:52 because if they weren't, everyone would call them on it 18:12:16 in a CS lab i actually managed to print a document to a physical printer 18:12:18 triumph, imo 18:12:22 I ended up having to need a kernel with custom configuration for a marking script, we explained the problem and they created a VM with a suitably configured kernel 18:12:28 and the same filesystems as everything else 18:12:38 Bike: at our lab, that'd have something like a 50% chance of working 18:12:41 ais523, Anyway autohotkey is an a quite reasonable option for moving windows around on Windows. Because afaik there is no other good option for doing that when you press a key combo 18:12:47 also it was mostly me who ended up refilling the printers in practice 18:12:50 because I printed so many handouts 18:13:09 Vorpal: yes, I'm just more amused that the situation became necessary in the first place 18:13:17 it'd be nice to just pipe all the terminal output into a monitoring program, for instance 18:13:26 that presents it appropriately 18:14:06 ais523, true, that would be nice. Not sure it would be doable under windows though 18:14:24 Vorpal: I was working with Windows console programming recently 18:14:27 and my verdict is, "no idea" 18:14:39 ais523, anyway windows opens windows (pun not intended) in terrible positions by default. 18:14:45 Vorpal: it's not even a pun 18:14:48 it's what the OS is named after 18:14:55 true 18:14:57 ais523: 50% is more than the usual rate. time before that i tried to print something i had to download drivers. and install via a sh. 18:15:02 which is probably a bad idea because the existence of X means that they can't trademark it 18:15:14 Bike: we wouldn't have enough perms to do that 18:15:21 the actual printing system worked fine 18:15:24 on my personal computer, i mean 18:15:27 but the queues had a tendency to just get stuck 18:15:28 Bike: oh 18:15:41 I'd do that via print to PDF + scp + ssh to send it to the printer 18:15:45 We have a pretty cool printer system at work. You just print to the "Print Anywhere" device, then go to a printer and swipe your RFID door key thingy 18:15:47 okay, well, that sucks. 18:15:51 then you get a list of your printer queue 18:15:59 And can select to print whatever 18:16:00 but I was talking about from the labs themselves 18:16:15 but it's very rare I needed to print anything other than handouts for students and marksheets 18:16:24 and those could most easily be printed in the lab anyway 18:16:41 (at least partly to stop people stealing them before I had a chance to collect them from the printer) 18:16:51 also you know what's weird? the way we have a desktop metaphor and then cover our desktops in windows 18:16:55 (which is unlikely but I took data protection seriosuly, especially when marks are involved) 18:17:38 like, i have a physical desk, and there are hardly any windows on it at all. 18:17:46 ais523, where do you work now? 18:17:57 Bike, XD 18:18:04 Vorpal: currently I'm finishing up a PhD, so at home 18:18:06 maybe back in the 60s there was a fad of desks made of glass 18:18:09 this is the only logical explanation 18:18:10 ais523, ah 18:18:25 some kind of system of wheels to move glass around the surface 18:18:27 Bike, I have seen living room tables made of glass 18:18:53 Well the surface that is, usually not the legs 18:19:05 in the desktop metaphor that would be having your desktop background be a view into your CRT or some shit (back when we used crts) 18:19:07 Though that would be cool and probably dangerous 18:19:41 man. remember crts? 18:19:42 fuck crts. 18:19:43 yes 18:19:49 I hate them with a passion 18:20:02 how is something with an "electron gun" so damn inconvenient. 18:20:06 Never really sharp, always slightly blurry and headache inducing 18:20:18 if i had an electron gun i'd just shoot it all the time 18:20:34 good CRTs actually have better image quality than good LCDs 18:20:39 if I had an electron gun, I'd make myself instant hot-dogs. 18:20:41 but people preferred LCDs because they took up less space 18:20:41 Bike, it isn't called a "gun" in Swedish. We use the terms "anod" and "katod" 18:20:52 my grocery clerk? a professor? someone asking me out on a date? BAM electrongun'd. 18:20:52 boily: I'm not sure if you can cook a hot dog effectively with beta-radiation 18:20:52 Pretty sure they are used in English as well 18:21:03 Vorpal: "anode", "cathode" 18:21:06 Vorpal: anode and cath- yeah. 18:21:13 ais523: cooking it effectively is not the point. 18:21:16 technical terms for referring to electrodes at particular voltages 18:21:27 ais523, that depends on the quality of the LCD I would say. IPS panels can be pretty damn good 18:21:27 (irradiating hot-dog sausages, otoh... :D) 18:21:46 ais523, I moved over to IPS at home after getting used to it at work 18:22:52 Bike: would you electron-gun iverum 18:22:58 I can heartily recommend Dell UltraSharp U2413 btw. Dell UltraSharp U2412M is a bit cheaper (mostly due to the fact that it is sRGB instead of wide gamut) but still really good 18:23:06 Fiora: you /and/ him, babe 18:23:23 that sounds painful :< 18:23:46 Vorpal: anyway we wouldn't use "anode"/"cathode" to talk about an electron gun generally in English; it'd be like casually describing a computer by what sort of motherboard it used 18:23:57 i don't think electron guns actually do anything to people 18:24:20 ais523, hm I guess there is the term "elektronstrålerör" now that I think about it. Which would be "electron beam tube" 18:24:51 or even electron ray tube 18:24:56 both translations work 18:25:05 i mean, electrons are like, small,, man. 18:26:03 Bike: beta rays are actually pretty dangerous 18:26:12 mostly via corrupting DNA 18:26:15 orly 18:26:28 Fiora: ok, i'll shoot him first to make sure it's safe. 18:26:46 beta particles don't sound very safe 18:26:53 actually, alpha/beta/gamma rays are all dangerous; alpha are the most damaging if they get inside the body, but also get stopped very easily 18:27:11 like, even a piece of paper gives pretty good shielding from alpha rays 18:27:28 so beta are the most dangerous if you're near the source, and gamma from a long distance 18:27:51 ais523, what about neutrons? 18:28:02 unless you pointed an alpha ray directly at an open wound, but don't do that 18:28:04 Vorpal: I don't know 18:28:04 As happens in a chain reaction with uranium and such 18:28:18 What is that radiation even called? 18:28:22 I assume that there are people who know how dangerous they are, but I'm not one of them 18:30:01 neutrons are just called neutrons I thikn 18:30:08 yes 18:30:18 and unlike the others there are different kinds iirc 18:30:21 imo zeta rays. 18:30:27 Phantom_Hoover, oh? 18:30:54 there's only one sort of neutron AFAIK 18:31:06 yeah, but they can have different energies 18:31:07 I guess there are antineutrons too but they tend not to exist very much 18:31:18 Phantom_Hoover: well, in that case, there are different kinds of gamma ray too 18:31:21 wow, way to be discriminatory ais. 18:31:24 i guess alpha, beta and gamma are all pretty constrained by the nuclear processes that emit them 18:31:47 Bike: ? 18:31:53 nevermind 18:31:59 can't neutrons have differente spin or some shit 18:32:03 all these particles fuckcing spin 18:32:11 yeah but that doesn't matter 18:32:16 oh 18:32:30 but afaik the interactions that lead to alpha/beta decay have fairly strict requirements 18:32:39 yeah, most alpha particles have around the same energy 18:33:16 there's an isotope of tantalum which should in theory be ridiculously unstable, but because of this bizarre convergence of different effects is very very stable 18:33:23 ta-180m~ 18:33:35 fuck you i loved it first 18:33:36 the fuck is tantalum even for 18:33:36 I love those weird cool isotopes like that 18:33:45 Bike, capacitors hth 18:33:54 god fuck capacitors 18:34:03 :< 18:34:14 j/k, i <3 capacitance. 18:34:23 Phantom_Hoover: was that during your metallurgy hipster phase 18:34:44 or like, the reason that technetium doesn't have any stable isotopes 18:34:49 or the be8/c12 resnoance 18:34:51 or halo nuclei 18:34:54 i'm really into niobium, you've probably never heard of it, etc 18:34:58 (nuclear physics is so wonderful) 18:35:20 Bike: there are such things as element hipsters? 18:35:29 err, *elliott: 18:35:45 sorry, I have more scrollback than Vorpal but I read it backwards 18:35:48 so I can get a little out of context sometimes 18:35:57 Roujo: could you voice me? elliott is being a mathematician today. 18:36:00 ais523, I have 1000 lines per channel iir 18:36:02 iirc* 18:36:38 ais523: lanthanides are way better displayed on vinyl 18:36:46 Vorpal: are you not aware that "Vorpal has no scrollback" is a #esoteric meme? 18:36:57 I am Not Authorized to Perform this Operatiön 18:37:30 Öperation 18:37:41 ais523, I am, but I'm ignoring it 18:37:43 Öpërätïön 18:37:45 Vorpal: right 18:37:58 ais523, anyway the reason for me is probably reading it from the end and upwards too 18:37:59 boily: Ask HackEgo 18:38:05 I tend to do that 18:38:11 HackEgo: VOICE! NOW! 18:38:15 HackEgo: pretty please. 18:38:25 boily: why do you want voice so much anyway? 18:38:44 ais523: equilibrium of the forces. and I'm jealous of Roujo's status :D 18:38:50 we should download irssi into hackego and have it join. it will, of course, be opped 18:39:12 I don't think hackego knows its own IRC password 18:39:20 that's deep. 18:40:10 in much the same way that programs are normally unaware of their own source coe 18:40:14 (except in the case of Feather) 18:40:24 oh, also Snowflake tells programs what their own source code is 18:40:41 which isn't actually required, ofc – you could just write everything as quines – but they tend to need to know so that they can repair it 18:40:41 what about kleene's theorem.................. 18:41:12 `quote feather 18:41:13 871) -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("someone is going to mention Feather, I know it"). \ 872) i don't even know anything about feather and i'm getting sick of the time travel jokes \ 902) in Smalltalk, as in Feather, in order to do I/O, you must first create the universe ais523, it seems quite capable of I/O... GUI is a fo 18:41:19 why does Roujo have voice anyway? 18:41:28 he asked for it 18:41:29 The Canadian Cup, 2013 18:41:31 I didn't 18:41:34 oh, right 18:41:35 okay? 18:41:37 yes did! 18:41:37 who did 18:41:41 it's boily who asked for it 18:41:45 He might have 18:42:07 All I know is that I got voice while commenting the race 18:42:14 Along with boily 18:43:26 hmm… what might be interesting would be an IRC flag/permission-like thing 18:43:40 that does nothing at all, except allow you to turn it on and off on other people 18:43:46 it'd be an interesting exercise in social dynamics 18:43:46 That would be awesome 18:44:11 Over on SlashNET, there's a channel where anyone that gets in gets ops 18:44:30 So you just have to join it, and you get ops 18:44:31 ~duck slashnet 18:44:31 SlashNET is a medium-sized, independently operated Internet Relay Chat (IRC) network. 18:44:43 That's also an interesting social experiment 18:44:47 is slashnet one of those anti-serv places 18:44:55 Roujo: you heretic. there is one network, and the network is Freenode. 18:44:58 Nope, Services are there 18:45:03 ok 18:45:04 Roujo: heh; I remember the terms and conditions for quakenet 18:45:23 which pretty much explicitly say "don't do that, are you idiots, if you op everyone in your channel we refuse to help if someone screws it up (which they will)" 18:45:27 well, they don't use the same language 18:45:33 ^^ 18:45:44 I've yet to see anyone abuse the op powers 18:46:03 Which is impressive, imo 18:46:10 it depends on which networks you go to 18:46:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:46:24 I've been on the receiving end of op abuse in other channels before now 18:46:24 On the everyone-is-an-op channel, I mean 18:46:43 I got k/b'd from other channels for no reason before =P 18:46:46 Well, "no reason" 18:46:48 my normal technique for dealing with it is to avoid the channel for a long time in order to worry people into thinking that I was seriously offended 18:46:52 1) "I thought you were someone else" 18:46:58 2) "I don't know you, so get out" 18:47:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:47:05 especially in channels where the vast majority of people have autojoin, and joke kicks are comon 18:47:07 *common 18:47:10 Heh 18:47:20 for 2), it's called setting invite-only (or channel key) 18:47:23 1) is understandable though 18:47:40 Yeah =P 18:47:45 It was just pretty random 18:47:48 Since I just got in 18:48:11 It was about an old community I was a part of, so I was catching up, talking to people 18:48:28 And then some op came back, saw that I was called Skynet, panicked and k/b'd me 18:48:58 terrified of the terminator menace 18:49:23 from my point of view: if Skynet really does become reality and start taking over the Internet (and then the whole world by proxy) 18:49:34 if it actually thinks it's safe for it to use its real name, we're probably screwed no matter what 18:49:38 so there's no point in worrying about it 18:50:50 Good point 18:51:18 guess we're going to have to travel back in time to tell the op this. 18:51:22 ais523: We were talking about how I became Skynet just yesterday 18:51:47 When you suggested that I /nick Skynet to scare Darth_Cliche, back when I played BlogNomic 18:51:56 wow, I'd mostly forgotten that 18:52:04 So that blognomicbot would show "Players watching the game: Skynet" 18:52:17 I caused enough controversy when I started using callforjudgement on blognomic IRC, before I was a player 18:52:20 -!- ais523 has changed nick to callforjudgement. 18:52:25 She didn't remember it at all, either =P 18:52:31 blognomic controversy 18:52:33 the nick stuck, but I'm not allowed to use it for nomic any more 18:52:47 I remember, though. She came in and, again, k/b'd me. =P 18:53:03 ~duck blognomic 18:53:04 Software description: support applications for various blognomic dynasties (Python). 18:53:04 Nevermind the fact that I had ops, so I was (probably) a known player =P 18:53:05 But eh 18:53:11 Heh 18:53:19 boily: http://blognomic.com/ 18:53:21 * boily kicks DDG in the self-referential definitions 18:53:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:53:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:53:45 blognomic's the gateway nomic for addicting people to nomic 18:53:49 Yup 18:54:03 basically, because a) it's easy to play, and b) it's fun the first few dynasties 18:54:05 then it gets repetitive 18:54:17 I caused enough controversy when I started using callforjudgement on blognomic IRC, before I was a player <-- what does that do? 18:54:25 I think I tried nomic once with my bro and another guy (or girl, or human. probably human). it was... politico-confuzzling. 18:54:26 Or your win gets papered over and you resent the game forever 18:54:44 Vorpal: Call for Judgement, or CFJ, is an in-game term 18:54:48 Which makes the nick confusing =P 18:54:49 Vorpal: in Nomic, a call for judgement is what happens when there's a dispute about the rules and they want someone to resolve it 18:55:02 now, in BlogNomic specifically, they felt it'd be useful for people to make anonymous CFJs 18:55:05 boily: We should play together one day. 18:55:17 so that they didn't give away secret information 18:55:17 Heck, I played Nomic with Pouti for quite some time 18:55:19 callforjudgement, heh 18:55:44 (the standard example was in a Werewolf/Mafia game; if one of the Mafia felt that something was unfair to their team, they couldn't exactly bring up the point publicly) 18:55:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:56:02 thus, they had a user account, "callforjudgment" (US spelling), for the purpose of making them, that anyone could use 18:56:16 someone (possibly multiple people) started trolling via it, so it got deactivated 18:56:20 then I thought it'd be funny to use on IRC 18:56:34 to show that I was anonymous 18:56:42 except I didn't notice the spelling difference, so I did it with UK spelling 18:57:01 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 18:57:05 -!- ais523 has changed nick to CallForJudgement. 18:57:07 * CallForJudgement fixes caps 18:57:22 anyway, things lead to other things, and it's probably my primary nick now 18:58:55 CallForJudgement, really? 18:58:57 Hm 18:59:02 Roujo: there's the OUMF going on. retrogaming night today! 18:59:07 it's less taken on average than "ais523" 18:59:09 for one thing 18:59:24 (which, as is well-known by now, was randomly generated by the University's computer system) 19:00:23 there's also "scarf", but mostly just because I noticed it wasn't taken 19:01:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:01:19 boily: What's that? =) 19:01:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:02:00 Roujo: one of Montréal's multiple mini-festivals. art émergent, random stuff, random people, random randomity. 19:02:13 Nice 19:02:17 http://oumf.ca/ 19:02:31 `run cat /dev/random >> OUMF 19:03:34 No output. 19:03:44 Cool 19:04:42 -!- conehead has joined. 19:04:42 it's less taken on average than "ais523" <-- really? I wouldn't imagine it was used a lot 19:05:16 Vorpal: three-letters three-numbers will be taken by some people just by chance 19:05:25 `run echo $((26*26*26*1000)) 19:05:26 17576000 19:05:35 that's not so big, given the number of users of the Internet 19:05:52 -!- solidoodlesuppor has joined. 19:05:56 True, but far from everyone will take one of those 19:06:00 `relcome solidoodlesuppor 19:06:03 ​solidoodlesuppor: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:06:22 Vorpal: and a good thing too, they'd all be taken already if they did 19:06:42 ... Well yeah. =P 19:07:30 CallForJudgement: good to see I'm not the only one trying to autocomplete on mkdir. 19:07:37 (reformatting your quotes, btw. hth.) 19:08:05 `pastequotes ais523 19:08:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9162 19:09:04 only those that match /<[^[:alpha:]]*ais523[^[:alpha:]]*>/ 19:09:38 I may as well read them all anyway 19:10:19 I seem to have missed the USB sushi antediluvian craze... 19:12:32 boily: I saw it advertised once 19:12:38 not sure exactly what it was, because I didn't buy it 19:13:48 in any case, your quotes are ready. you can peruse the PDF. 19:16:34 hmm, we need a Snowflake-related quote in the qdb 19:16:45 so that I can mark the passage of qdb times by the esolangs being discussed 19:17:07 quick someone say something funny about snowflake 19:17:16 (I'm surprised that so long has gone since Radixal!!!!) 19:17:27 that was 825 19:18:23 actually, I think I have a good definition for what makes a good esolang 19:18:26 why a snowflake? what is Radixal? 19:18:33 ~eval primeFactors 825 19:18:34 [3,5,5,11] 19:18:47 it's a language which, at the point in time at which it was created, cannot be programmed in using programming techniques that already exist 19:18:54 thus, brainfuck was a good esolang when created 19:19:06 but BF derviatives are not good esolangs, because techniques for BF are well known now 19:19:56 do esolangs ever get used for legit cryptography? 19:20:03 I feel like you hide something fun in a cook book program 19:20:04 I doubt it 19:20:15 esolangs mostly exist to make things hard to understand on the surface 19:20:28 Snowflake uses kittens to reverse stack polarity. 19:20:32 whereas nowadays, legit cryptography is about being mathematically unbreakable even if you know what you're doing 19:20:38 That's enough to make it a good esolang in my book. 19:21:10 Then again, few people even read my book. 19:21:13 But eh =P 19:21:37 Does anyone do esolangs for a living? 19:21:40 CallForJudgement: Good enough of a quote for you? 19:21:41 seems like such a strange place 19:21:54 solidoodlesuppor: Does VB count? 19:21:59 HAH 19:22:04 Roujo: :) 19:22:05 How about PHP? 19:22:19 Right, PHP. Qualifies since there's still no known good programming technique to use. 19:22:20 solidoodlesuppor: there was exactly one instance where an esolang made commercial success 19:22:22 Taneb: we're talking programming. 19:22:24 was it… biota? 19:22:28 () 19:22:32 it got designed for a purpose, then solved 19:22:35 err, sold 19:22:36 Taneb: also, your quotes were reformatted. 19:22:41 :O 19:22:42 mostly it's for fun or for reasearch, though 19:22:48 "sold for a net profit in 1991" 19:22:49 `quote Taneb 19:22:49 Wow 19:22:50 389) Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 395) Cut to February War were declared A galaxy in turmoil Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 396) I can't afford one of those! A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 402) There's that saying that the definition of insani 19:22:53 also arguably the $25,000 I won from Wolfram Research was esolanging 19:23:13 CallForJudgement: You won 25k from them? Awesome! =D 19:23:21 I think part of the reason I got there first is that people were trying to see it as a maths/CS problem 19:23:26 rather than an esoprogramming problem 19:23:27 seems like you could write a nasty computer virus in biota 19:23:36 (understandable, because most people don't know what esoprogramming is) 19:23:37 the rewards for propping up wolfram's ego are great 19:23:55 Phantom_Hoover: well I kind-of fell out with him 19:24:05 as are the costs 19:24:11 why did you fall out 19:24:38 basically because he seemed to consider the entire problem as a yes or no thing 19:24:39 CallForJudgement, I thought you were a newb! I have not been paying attention 19:24:45 when it's much more nuanced than that 19:24:53 Taneb: not enough to know my alternative nick, indeed 19:25:03 -!- k_k_k has quit. 19:25:09 but I haven't been here for weeks 19:25:13 so I'm probably a newb anyway :) 19:25:24 I have never seen you use that nick before 19:25:35 oh, so this is the wrapper controversy 19:25:38 I don't use it on Freenode much 19:25:46 Phantom_Hoover: nah, the controversy happened ages ago 19:25:58 I'm not annoyed at the controversy, I'm annoyed at Wolfram for not even noticing its existence 19:26:07 yes, that's what i meant 19:26:08 also for thinking that something that runs in O(2^2^n) might be viable 19:26:25 that computational class is too high for most people to comprehend 19:26:30 CallForJudgement, by the end of the month I'll be attending the University of York 19:26:38 Taneb: is that relevant somehow? 19:26:42 No 19:26:45 fair enough 19:26:48 Just thought you may have missed it 19:26:51 I did 19:27:02 always important to know whether there's anyone of importance in hexham or not 19:27:13 and if you're in york, there's only a need to figure it out wrt elliott 19:27:37 Can you, as a former student, give me studency advice? 19:28:09 well I was really bad at anything but the academic stuff 19:28:20 I somehow managed to miss Fresher's Week altogether 19:28:32 we didn't even have fresher's week in warwick 19:28:33 and basically just stayed independent of everyone for like a year, it was pretty boring 19:28:37 What did wolfram do wrong? 19:28:39 is list 19:28:39 it was folded into the normal first week 19:28:42 *lost 19:28:42 so I filled in the time by learning INTERCAL 19:28:59 this also explains why the early ais523 era of C-INTERCAL was developed on SunOS 19:29:08 I also decided to learn UNIX at the same time 19:30:43 solidoodlesuppor, basically, CallForJudgement proved a very small system (that Wolfram was interested in) Turing-complete under the assumption that the tape started as some easily computable sequence 19:30:57 Taneb: well, "easily" is relative 19:31:22 solidoodlesuppor, and some people, Wolfram included, didn't like that very much 19:31:33 oh. I heard he can be that way... 19:31:59 Taneb, CallForJudgement: Is there anywhere I could read about this? 19:32:03 Sounds interesting 19:32:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfram's_2-state_3-symbol_Turing_machine#Proof_of_universality 19:32:28 http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/images/prizeAnnouncement.png 19:32:29 Woot 19:32:34 Wolfram Science have their own page about it 19:32:39 as well 19:32:43 Wikipedia's pretty neutral on the subject, though 19:32:49 which is impressive given how polarized the sides got 19:32:57 I stayed entirely out of it myself (mostly just watched, or ignored it) 19:32:59 on Wikipedia, that is 19:33:06 but there was systematic vandalism there for a while 19:33:24 also for thinking that something that runs in O(2^2^n) might be viable <-- wtf? He thought that was viable? I guess for very very small n 19:33:26 come to think of it, this probably explains why the universality thing has 12 citaitons 19:33:27 *citations 19:33:42 Vorpal: I don't think he thought that was viable; rather, he just didn't think of checking the computational class at all 19:33:49 Ah 19:34:03 there's at least one fallacious proof in ANKOS because he ignored the initialization requirements of the rule 110 proof 19:34:25 what is ANKOS? 19:34:31 ~duck ankos 19:34:32 A New Kind of Science is a best-selling, controversial book by Stephen Wolfram, published in 2002. 19:34:43 Ah 19:35:14 the funny thing is, I fixed it in my head 19:35:17 told him about it over the phone 19:35:21 but have never publicly released the fix 19:35:24 somehow I like things that way 19:36:34 Heh =P 19:36:34 Roujo, as a Canadian, can you give me studency tips? 19:36:40 Taneb: Studency? 19:36:48 The state of being a student 19:36:49 being-a-student-ness, I guess 19:36:53 Oh 19:36:55 Well 19:36:58 Erm 19:37:04 I'm not a student anymore, mind you 19:37:17 And even when I was... I tended to not follow proper studency 19:37:28 Didn't do homework, didn't really study... =/ 19:37:43 Is your advice gonna be "don't do what I did"? 19:37:43 So I'm not sure any advice of mine would be worth much 19:37:47 Well 19:37:51 No 19:38:13 Here's my advice: "Never stop being curious." 19:38:21 That is good advice 19:38:46 Vorpal, as someone who probably was a student but I cannot actually remember, can you give me studency tips? 19:38:48 I'm a bit... lazy at times. But this is what saved me. 19:38:49 Taneb: How did you get your nick indented....? 19:38:59 Indented? 19:39:02 there's at least one fallacious proof in ANKOS because he ignored the initialization requirements of the rule 110 proof 19:39:04 details, ais 19:39:05 I did? 19:39:06 details 19:39:28 Phantom_Hoover: he produced a turing machine (2,5 I think) which, when run on an empty tape, produces the pattern that rule 110 produces on an empty tape 19:39:33 and claimed that the turing machine is TC 19:39:37 it is, but that doesn't prove it 19:39:47 Taneb, hm, find friends early who are interested in studies rather than living the student life I guess. If that is what you want. 19:40:12 I found friends eventually, and got on well with them, for academic project purposes 19:40:16 Taneb, not really sure what kind of tips you want 19:40:21 we went and collaborated to subvert the group project marking system 19:40:44 Vorpal, mainly I'm just a bit nervous because it's a big change for me 19:40:47 CallForJudgement, I'm playing paper & pen roll playing with a couple of them nowdays even after university. 19:41:04 Oh, about being a student... Yeah, friend are important. Surround yourself with people you want to be like, it helps to soak up their interest/intensity like a sponge. =) 19:41:15 CallForJudgement, And we usually meet up a couple of times every year for a dinner or such. 19:41:19 also don't worry too much about getting it right first time 19:41:31 universities aren't like schools where you're stuck with the same few people forever 19:41:46 Taneb, learn LaTeX if you don't already know it. You might not need it at the start, but it will get invaluable pretty soon 19:41:48 Taneb: Being around people who do studies-related stuff for fun is a good way to make the studies themselves fun 19:42:13 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 19:42:34 Vorpal: oh yes, good advice 19:42:39 although it can be put off several years 19:42:56 CallForJudgement, we are using a custom rule system, one of us (not me) is a rule set collector and nerd, so he made his own system instead of using an existing one. It works pretty well from what I can tell. 19:43:31 -!- Bike has joined. 19:43:44 CallForJudgement, I had good use of it in the second half of the second year and from that point onwards I would say 19:43:57 is CallForJudgement still ais 19:44:09 Bike, no, he evolved 19:44:10 Vorpal: from my point of view it was pointless because everyone else used Word even when we specifically told them not to 19:44:13 :o 19:44:26 just wondering if someone else is nicked callforjudgment as a joke before i ask ais a question 19:44:29 Look! ais523 is evolving. He is turning into a CallForJudgement. 19:44:49 I had to merge nine separate files, eight of which were Word files, in order to write a report 19:44:51 under huge time pressure 19:44:52 (sorry I never played much pokemon, I don't remember how the wording goes) 19:45:04 CallForJudgement, ouch 19:45:07 i haven't played pokemon in years. you know why? because i'm not a NERRRRRD 19:45:26 the way I did it was to tell people to stop editing for a while, then run the Word-generated HTML through Tidy, then open it in Emacs and run a bunch of regexes on it interactively 19:45:30 Bike, I only ever played one game, and in an emulator 19:45:38 I never owned any handheld, or any console 19:45:43 geez 19:45:48 i at least played on a Real Console 19:45:48 I qualified for the Pokémon World Championships in 2011 via coming top 8 in the UK 19:45:52 CallForJudgement, holy crap 19:46:07 Vorpal: how did you not know this? I think I've mentioned it in-channel before 19:46:08 is there anything ais can't do 19:46:16 Bike: qualify in 2013, apparently 19:46:17 CallForJudgement, no I meant the Tidy stuff 19:46:21 point 19:46:25 CallForJudgement, that is what I went "holy crap" at 19:46:26 anyway i'm going to ask my question 19:46:38 Vorpal: Tidy has a command line option specifically for cleaning up some of the worst excesses of Word 19:46:42 which is just, you do cool hardware stuff, i'm in babby's first hardware class, do you have any suggestions for what to attempt to do with my fpga 19:46:58 CallForJudgement, anyway 19:47:07 Bike: Eat it. 19:47:07 Bike: well the hello world for an FPGA (or similar hardware things) is to toggle one of the GPIOs between 0 and 1 every second 19:47:09 FPGA is food. 19:47:12 I used LyX mostly, and for stuff I was the only person working on 19:47:20 mm, i haven't done anything with the clock yet 19:47:23 I never had to work on stuff with 8 people editing at the same time 19:47:38 my most advanced design so far is something that turns off a different ssd based on which button is pressed. 19:47:40 CallForJudgement, thought it was every half second? 19:47:46 Bike: FPGAs suck at asynchronous, you probably want to use the clock 19:47:49 Vorpal: tbf I doubt it matters 19:47:50 Gregor: i read an article on anosmia in birds the other day and thought of you. 19:47:55 it's like whether you put the comma in the hello world or not 19:48:01 CallForJudgement: yeah, i meant, i haven't done anything complicated enough to warrant a clock :/ 19:48:23 i was hoping for my next thing i could have the ssds display the number input on the switches in base four 19:48:23 CallForJudgement, but that is hugely important! 19:48:26 Bike: I feel a bit conflicted here because I had an argument with my PhD supervisor yesterday 19:48:30 which requires clock because of the way the ssds are muxed 19:48:33 CallForJudgement: oh? 19:48:43 where he was claiming that I should abandon talking about asynchronous hardware because it wouldn't run on our FPGA 19:48:51 and yet it's a more natural fit for the mathematical model 19:48:55 huh 19:49:08 (actually, the problem is that all the existing formalisms of delay-insensitive asynchronous hardware suck) 19:49:08 well, i'm interested in clockless stuff, but it's a pretty abstract interest given my level of capability 19:49:13 CallForJudgement, there isn't much async hardware though, is there? 19:49:15 Bike: so am I 19:49:17 Vorpal: no 19:49:22 but it's OK, this is /theoretical/ computer science 19:49:29 right except you're, like, a phd candidate, you know more9 things than i do 19:49:56 CallForJudgement, I mean in a computer. Apart from some stuff dealing with races between different clocks and such, and IO, all the computation in a normal computer happens sync mostly, right? 19:49:59 right now i just need to do my homework which is "how much current is running through the wire in this circuit" and shit like that. v. basic 19:50:12 @tell itidus19 your quotes are formatted. check the /topic PDF. you are an \ldots{} abuser. 19:50:12 Consider it noted. 19:50:16 @tell itidus20 your quotes are formatted. check the /topic PDF. you are an \ldots{} abuser. 19:50:16 Consider it noted. 19:50:17 Vorpal: yes; the only even vaguely async stuff is on the buses 19:50:20 @tell itidus21 your quotes are formatted. check the /topic PDF. you are an \ldots{} abuser. 19:50:20 Consider it noted. 19:50:23 @tell itidus22 your quotes are formatted. check the /topic PDF. you are an \ldots{} abuser. 19:50:23 Consider it noted. 19:50:33 I think I have the itiduses covered. 19:50:35 because it's trying to match different clocks 19:50:41 who all qualifies for quote formatting 19:50:42 which is impossible without dropping to async somewhere 19:50:43 oh btw Taneb don't worry, you cannot possibly be worse-prepared for studenting than me and i managed ok 19:50:44 CallForJudgement, right, what about interrupts? 19:50:52 mnoqy: only itidi. 19:50:56 Vorpal: they don't work until the next clock cycle 19:50:59 Phantom_Hoover, this sounds like there are a fair few interesting anecdotes 19:51:00 Ah right 19:51:08 which is unsurprising, given that computers can't run instructions between clock cycles anyway 19:51:17 mnoqy: like hungarian soup, I conflagrated them. 19:51:29 wow! i seriously forgot my pen. wow. can't do shit now. nobody has a pen in an EE building. 19:51:56 CallForJudgement, arguably they do in the sense that an instruction can be split over several cycles or several instructions can execute in one? 19:52:01 CallForJudgement, don't buses themselves usually have clocks btw? 19:52:04 Taneb, not really, i just had very little experience living alone when i left and i adapted pretty quickly to it 19:52:17 Phantom_Hoover, okay 19:52:24 CallForJudgement, anyway is the benefit of async hardware worth it? 19:52:37 Vorpal: I have no idea 19:52:43 personally i'm partly interested in async because ~brainz~ 19:52:47 that's the problem with theoretical designs 19:52:53 is this a biologist thing 19:52:54 in theory, it runs faster on average 19:52:59 mnoqy: maybe............. 19:53:01 because synchronous hardware runs at worst-case speed 19:53:08 and asynchronous hardware at average-case on average 19:53:17 I seem to remember reading about a MIPS CPU that was async 19:53:20 but the circuits are more complex, meaning that it often isn't worth it in practice 19:53:23 as an experiment 19:53:40 there are things in the nervous system that are vaguely clock-like in that they send out periodic signals independently of stimulation, but it's a pretty shallow analogy. 19:53:57 this is important for e.g. walking without falling flat on your face and dying. 19:54:44 heh 19:54:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:54:47 brb 19:55:35 I think there's a postgrad at York doing something with chemical computers and async operation 19:55:36 s 19:55:47 chemical computers are cool too. 19:56:02 just kind of like weird-ass computers. if only there was a place to congregate, etc 19:56:56 Bike: I'm actually writing a paper about asynchronous circuits atm 19:56:57 international weird-ass computers conference 19:57:22 my LaTeX linter is weird. it seems to ignore kmc... 19:57:27 don't mock me mnyoqyty 20:01:13 `quote 726 20:01:14 726) and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 20:01:18 any advice on this yet? 20:01:29 define free will 20:01:35 define 3d hashlife 20:01:53 hashlife on 3d moore CAs? 20:02:00 define implement 20:02:11 Bike: basically that the rules involving that color can change at runtime in response to user input 20:02:14 this is important for e.g. walking without falling flat on your face and dying. 20:02:29 my tutor specialises in walking without falling flat on your face and dying! 20:02:41 well he studied insects but you get the drift 20:02:50 insects have faces too 20:02:52 also that's cool. 20:03:14 i wish i specialized in walking without falling flat on your face and dying 20:03:32 ironically(?) he walks with a cane 20:03:36 CallForJudgement: well the one hashlife concept works regardless, doesn't it? as long as you maintain a speed of light. you'd just have to mark blocks as hving to be recomputed 20:03:39 perhaps that's his major breakthrough 20:03:44 Phantom_Hoover: "ironically, he walks with six canes" 20:03:50 Bike: I guess 20:04:08 actually some versions of elliottcraft don't have a speed of light, but adding one would make sense 20:04:42 Alert character (the one that goes beep when printed) 20:04:50 hmm, that's a very informal description for me 20:06:13 he also has a bunch of arthropods in perspex and model ants in his office 20:06:19 and a giant papier mache ant helmet 20:06:31 uefufl 20:06:33 useful.* 20:07:02 kmc: ♪ your quotes are ready ♪ 20:07:22 what 20:07:28 ♪ 20:07:48 :♪) hm 20:09:07 :∢ 20:09:09 boily, why haven't you readied my quodes 20:09:13 *quotes 20:09:24 `quode Phantom_Hoover 20:09:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quode: not found 20:09:43 Phantom_Hoover: because I'm not yet doing the letter “P”. 20:09:53 wow, Snowflake is my /second/ language that is slightly inspired by my dislike for Java2K 20:09:59 (/ˈæmbiːɛf/ is the first) 20:09:59 (and if you're asking about Taneb's being done before you, it's because of atriq.) 20:10:09 actually it's my third if you count Befunge2K, but that was never documented 20:10:36 even though it's literally "Befunge-98 where all instructions except ; have a 50% chance of doing nothing instead" 20:10:45 CallForJudgement: you are kmc, right? 20:10:50 boily: no, ais523 20:10:53 oh. 20:10:56 also I just tried to tab-complete my primary nick 20:11:02 that /could/ work, it just doesn't 20:11:09 the mkdir predicament. 20:13:05 I also guess I also have several other thoughts on the matter, but they are too wide-ranging and not directly relevant, so I will save them for The Manifesto. 20:13:10 did that ever happen? because it seems ominous 20:13:48 ooooh! another document to latexify! :D 20:14:10 boily: which document? 20:14:31 CallForJudgement: the The Manifesto. 20:14:35 (kumquat) 20:14:45 * CallForJudgement feels slightly trolled 20:15:52 CallForJudgement: in two parts. 1) cpressey mentionned an obscure Manifesto, that I wish to latexify. 2) http://www.kimmok.com/THE-MANIFESTO-MANIFESTO 20:15:55 huh, apparently atehwa uses an ä in his or her eodermdrome programs 20:16:03 is that even legal? 20:16:24 atehwa: who are you? are you approximative? I like your spurrious diæresification. 20:16:31 CallForJudgement, yes 20:16:57 I guess it is, I just said "letters" 20:17:01 the spec just says 'characters', with absolutely no qualification 20:17:21 bleh, now people who speak languages other than English have an advantage over me in eodermdrome-writing 20:17:42 but you have an advantage over the americans! 20:17:52 yeah, I at least have an ë to play with 20:19:08 (strange how most people deny its existence) 20:19:18 also according to the books I originally learned the alphabet from, & is a letter 20:20:50 «éperluette», which means “and by itself, and”. it was the 27th letter. 20:21:19 hmm, is that French for "ampersand"? 20:21:44 (also, I remember that in Gödel, Escher, Bach, Hofstadter used ""/«»/»« quotes to distinguish English, French, and German) 20:22:17 «» is perfectly valid for quoting in English. 20:22:28 yes, that's the proper glyph name in French, but nobody uses it. everyone calls it «et commercial». 20:22:34 I've never seen »« in English, though. 20:23:30 also, doesn't French have more than 26 letters /anyway/? 20:23:37 e.g. é 20:25:07 they don't count as extra letters. 20:26:08 hmm… so ä is OK in Eodermdrome, but é isn't? 20:27:33 depends in which context you use «é». In French, it is equivalent to a regular «e» (or è, ê and ë for that matter), just with a small pixelly smudge over it. 20:28:02 mnoqy: you are nicely quoted. stop bathrooming with sgeo. hand. hth. 20:28:09 huh what 20:28:27 mnoqy: the /topic PDF includes your quotes now. 20:28:28 «mnoqy» 20:28:52 «“「mnoqy」”» 20:29:01 ah ! 20:31:52 boily: oops i forgot about sending you that thing... i'll look into it in a bit 20:31:52 for now though: chapter 2 name proposal: The Things of Wisdomme 20:33:21 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:33:30 nooodl: doing your quotes! 20:33:50 `pastequotes nooodl 20:33:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23957 20:34:06 well, exciting 20:34:26 holy. fungot. 20:34:26 boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there 20:34:38 I even used /no+dl/ for your name match. 20:36:59 wow, good quote nooodl 20:37:06 "thx" 20:37:47 -!- carado_ has joined. 20:39:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:40:51 indeed. the linter fears kmc, now that I'm oerjanning. 20:44:20 boily: what, you have duplicate quotes????? 20:45:08 shachaf: yes? and? 20:48:45 @tell oerjan you are quoted. peruse the PDF. 20:48:45 Consider it noted. 20:49:55 Generic Identity Question: are oklopol and oklofok the same person? 20:50:38 yes 20:50:43 in some sense 20:51:11 well, it just happens that neither has quotes. so they can freely be who they are. 20:51:18 what 20:51:20 that can't be right 20:51:24 `quote oklopol 20:51:25 28) i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. \ 30) anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo list \ 32) i'm my dad's unborn sister \ 43) GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 53) hmm, this is hard \ 5 20:52:02 woops. typo on my end, then. 20:52:08 oklorientation: 32 is the only quote there that I think is made up 20:52:49 Phantom_Hoover: indeed. the okloes have 76 quotes in all. 20:53:12 okos 20:54:28 and I may have missed some Gregor quotes. aurgh. 20:55:01 false alarm. I complete Gregor. 20:55:06 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:55:34 quote 32 just doesn't make any sense at all 20:59:07 yes, 28 and 30 i completely believe though 20:59:42 I believe many things that aren't in the quotes. 21:02:48 oklopol: I mathematically hate you. 21:03:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:03:14 `lastseen oklopol 21:03:14 oh, wait. it's only a polynomial. 21:03:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lastseen: not found 21:03:22 damn 21:03:53 @messages-loud 21:03:53 boily said 15m 8s ago: you are quoted. peruse the PDF. 21:04:49 `seen oklopol 21:04:55 2013-08-28 21:20:53: meaning with, in, by, respectively; i think 21:05:19 that recently? 21:05:26 i haven't noticed him in ages 21:06:21 oklopol: have you become invisible to scots 21:07:00 shachaf: I didn’t get far with the poset functor thing. For A : C, F A : D, if i have a Fo : A → F A for the objects and you give me an (A → B), corresponding to a true (A ≤ B), i’m supposed to give you a (F A → F B), corresponding to a true (F A ≤ F B), is this right? I’m not sure i have enough building blocks for that. 21:08:18 and with that, The Okloes are quoted. 21:08:24 ion: What do you mean by Fo : A → F A? 21:08:29 time to go retrogaming! 21:08:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:08:32 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:09:02 Is that → an arrow in one of the categories or some other thing? 21:11:19 shachaf: I read somewhere that a functor F : C → D involves F₀ : A → F A for the objects and F₁ : (A → B) → (F A → F B) for the arrows. I think the C → D, A → F A and F₁ : (…) → (…) arrows were supposed to be function arrows. Or something. Did i read something bad or misinterpret it? 21:12:10 OK, sure, as long as it's clear that that's different from the → arrow inside the category (which is just a ≤ relationship). 21:12:29 hmm… I guess my only remaining hope for Snowflake is to get oerjan or Keymaker or someone interested in it 21:12:34 or just do it all myself 21:12:48 and cry internally at the esocommunity's lack of interest in esolangs 21:12:54 shachaf: Yes 21:13:03 ion: So a functor F has F₀, which maps each object in C to an object in D, and F₁, which "maps" ≤ relationships. 21:13:26 It's pretty much what you said. 21:13:37 Just a function between posets which is order-preserving. 21:14:18 Which means that if x ≤ y then f(x) ≤ f(y) 21:14:27 yeah 21:14:31 @tell Sgeo Is there a name for those monads which are implementable even if bind can call its continuation at most 1 time? <-- i don't know but the STMonadTrans package refers to those without a name. 21:14:31 Consider it noted. 21:14:35 I.e. a monotonic function. 21:14:40 (Monotonically increasing.) 21:15:26 @tell Sgeo or well, i assume it's essentially the same. 21:15:26 Consider it noted. 21:19:15 shachaf: So… am i supposed to be able to make one in general? 21:19:26 What do you mean by "make"? 21:19:53 Let's say we have the poset category N of natural numbers. 21:19:59 I thought the exercise was to define F₁. So far we only have “type signatures”. 21:20:09 Oh. 21:20:35 Well, there's at most one arrow between the object F A and F B. 21:20:42 So you just have to show that it exists. 21:22:42 I’m not sure how to do that. 21:24:11 Well, take any monotonic function from N to N, for example. 21:24:34 You have a "functor" that maps an object x to the object x+1. 21:24:46 And if x≤y, then x+1≤y+1 21:24:51 yeah 21:25:53 Maybe I don't understand what you mean. 21:28:17 The goal was adjunctions or something like that, right? 21:29:19 I had the false impression that i should find a general definition of F₁ for any F : C → D, but i suppose the definition depends on the specific C and D. 21:29:45 Oh, I see. 21:30:01 Well, we have the definition of a functor, which is F₀ and F₁ which follow some laws. 21:30:45 (The laws are trivial when you're talking about posets, by the way.) 21:31:37 But when you're specifying some particular functor, you give a specific definition of F₁. 21:31:50 F₁ id = id; F₁ f ∘ F₁ g = F₁ (f ∘ g); anything else? 21:32:11 Those are the laws. 21:32:16 aye 21:32:47 Well there's a "type law" of sorts, which is that if f : A -> B then F₁ F : F₀ A -> F₀ B 21:33:08 (Usually people don't bother writing F₀ and F₁, just F. Or, in Haskell, they write fmap instead of F₁.) 21:33:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:34:18 okokokokokokokokokokoko 21:34:20 okokokokokokoko 21:34:32 okoko 21:35:47 * oerjan wonders what those empty squares are 21:35:53 so if i have two say minimal compact dynamical systems X and Y, is there a name for the following: for any morphism \phi : X \times Y \to X, there's a function \psi : X \to X such that \phi(x, y) = \psi(x) for all x, y 21:36:23 what's a morphism 21:36:32 continuous function that commutes with the dynamics 21:36:52 oh, for a moment I thought oerjan was asking what morphisms are in general 21:36:59 and got really confused, because I expected him to know 21:37:05 you'd think 21:37:30 shachaf: Thanks for the explanations. I should start reading Awodey’s book at some point. 21:37:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:37:51 `quote Snowflake 21:37:53 No output. 21:37:54 oklopol: by what you write, phi is independent of y 21:37:54 ion: Awodey has some great videos -- a few hours -- that you could watch. 21:37:55 D: 21:38:00 oerjan: yes 21:38:16 shachaf: Oh, cool. /me googles 21:38:24 currently i say "X is independent from Y" for this 21:38:32 opm" http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/research/summerschool/summer12/curriculum.html 21:38:33 was just wondering if there's a name 21:38:38 Er, ion: 21:38:55 i don't remember one 21:38:58 djsvjsg" thanks 21:39:07 it seems like a relatively useful concept for minimal systems; at least it seems to be exactly what is needed for computing the endomorphisms of certain toeplitz subshifts 21:39:23 ok 21:39:31 i gotta sleep 21:39:41 n 21:39:53 Kuolema kuittaa univelat. 21:42:48 -!- conehead has joined. 21:46:55 ion: The next step is natural transformations, I guess! 21:49:52 a natural step 21:50:04 noooo, i missed oklopol again 21:50:25 clearly something eerie is going on 21:50:56 so close and yet so far 21:57:21 ion: Death to reset the sleep-deprived? 21:58:37 Death will pay off the sleep debt 21:58:41 `quote okokoko 21:58:43 No output. 22:04:11 @tell oklopol say okokoko a bit in #esoteric so we can `addquote it 22:04:11 Consider it noted. 22:04:17 hmm, wait 22:04:26 `pastelog okokokoko 22:04:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19632 22:04:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:05:08 -!- Bike has joined. 22:07:31 "i call rule 34 on rule 110" 22:07:55 -!- solidoodlesuppor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:46 sure, how hard could it be? 22:10:24 right i mean it's turing complete 22:10:59 not everyone has the same taste as turing though 22:11:40 true 22:12:59 hmm, I should do something... tomorrow maybe? 22:13:22 tomorrow: procrastinating 22:13:54 doing things: overrated? or not? 22:14:23 probably! 22:14:40 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN^WWORLDNEWS: http://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1kw1nd/not_a_conspiracy_anymore/cbtdfzh 22:14:44 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:15:13 I saw a "bitcoin" credit card today, so this bitcoin thing must be "getting somewhere" 22:15:26 -!- tromp has joined. 22:16:53 `bitcoin' ``credit'' ```card''' 22:16:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bitcoin': not found 22:17:18 it may have been a debit card but the distinction is lost on me 22:18:32 fungot: good night? 22:18:32 olsner: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp 22:18:34 was it actually bitcoin-enabled in some way 22:18:41 or did it just like have a bitcoin logo on it 22:19:12 mostly it was connected to a bitcoin exchange and you could sell bitcoins to have the balance directly deposited on your card 22:19:35 i thought bitcoins were useless for up-front transactions 22:19:43 fungot: and I know that's just a bit of the ^style list, stop cheating 22:19:43 olsner: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins were in truth, and everything in readiness for fnord. under these, too 22:20:06 Phantom_Hoover: how do you mean 22:20:17 i, myself, will bring an end to all. everything in readiness for fnord! 22:20:53 fnorderdämmerung 22:21:20 die erdämmerung der fnord 22:22:11 kmc: doing things can be nice but not doing things has its own charm 22:22:42 does playing mölkky count as doing things or no 22:22:59 kmc, it has a long-ish transaction delay or something? 22:23:04 yeah 22:23:09 a lot of physical merchants seem to not care though 22:23:13 tricky question 22:23:18 imo i don't care 22:23:48 maybe they use a transaction processor that converts BTC immediately into bilderberg conspiracy fiat currency, and guarantees them against fraud (like cc processors do) 22:24:07 what's the risk again 22:24:27 you buy a croissant, eat it, then cancel the transaction before it goes through> 22:24:45 going via "bilderberg conspiracy fiat currency" sounds quite reliable 22:25:14 btw on the topic of the bilderbergs i would like to once again recommend THEM: adventures with extremists 22:25:55 and are you sure they guarantee *against* fraud, rather than e.g. guaranteeing fraud? (I also idly wonder which one of those is more likely to give your money back) 22:26:06 Phantom_Hoover: the risk is double spend 22:26:21 cancel i guess would mean you double spend also by sending it to yrself 22:27:18 so what, you override the earlier transaction with a second one that sends the money elsewhere? 22:27:56 I think the jist is you send two transactions out at once, and hope the other one gets included in the block chain? 22:28:24 let me tell you exactly how it works 22:28:54 i think i get it now 22:29:09 or maybe you dont care which one gets included 22:29:12 but you got two things 22:29:16 for the price of one 22:29:30 I don't think a miner will accept two transactions coming from the same money? 22:29:30 yeah 22:29:32 like, they'll reject it 22:29:34 sure 22:29:39 but you still have two croissants 22:29:45 ohhhh XD 22:31:08 so merkhants are advised to wait for the netwrk to agree on the transxn 22:31:35 which is not a discrete thing but the longer you wait, the less likely it will change its mind 22:31:59 (it is discrete in units of blocks, which take avg 10 min to make) 22:32:29 but most people dont wanna wait 10 min for a croissont much less 30 22:32:38 so your btc bakery must take this risk 22:32:43 or pay someone else to assume the risk 22:32:57 in which case that third party can also run an instantaneous change to money that is actually useful to your business 22:33:21 you know because your landlord and croissont supplier probably don't accept bitcoin (dupes of the global banker hegemony that they are) 22:33:24 `cat bin/complain 22:33:26 echo "$@" > /dev/null; echo Complaint filed. Thank you.; 22:33:49 `cat /dev/null 22:33:50 No output. 22:33:57 no complaints, how nice. 22:34:34 kmc, are you drunk or are your hands badly injured 22:35:05 painting nails 22:35:17 so, both? 22:35:25 I think that's neither 22:35:28 `run ln -s /dev/null complaints 22:35:31 unless he's done smoething very very wrong with acetone 22:35:32 No output. 22:35:34 dronk on ethyl acetate fumes 22:35:58 `run echo 'wc -l complaints' > bin/complaints; chmod +x bin/complaints 22:36:02 No output. 22:36:03 `complaints 22:36:04 0 complaints 22:37:31 nice 22:37:41 kmc, oh good (i just asked in case your hands were too badly injured to alert the emergency services) 22:38:16 `run sed -i 's#/dev/null#complaints#' bin/complain 22:38:19 in which case you would call for me 0818 999 88911 9119725 3 22:38:20 No output. 22:38:29 `run sed -i 's/>/>>/' bin/complain 22:38:33 No output. 22:38:38 i think these days the preferred way to alert the police is twitter 22:38:59 `run sed -i 's/;$//' bin/complain 22:39:00 do they actually notice 22:39:03 No output. 22:39:07 shachaf: i don't think that will handle the complaits already made. i suggest modifying the `list method. 22:39:14 *+n 22:39:18 oerjan: Hmm? 22:39:23 It handles them very well. 22:39:36 `echo bin/complain 22:39:37 bin/complain 22:39:42 `cat bin/complain 22:39:43 echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 22:39:48 oh 22:39:59 oerjan: Alternatively: I suggest that you file that as a complaint. 22:40:10 nah. 22:40:25 `complain oerjan won't do his complaint duty 22:40:26 Complaint filed. Thank you. 22:40:28 `complaints 22:40:29 0 complaints 22:41:43 `run echo 'See misspellings of croissant' >wisdom/'croissont supplier' 22:41:47 No output. 22:52:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v myndzi. 22:52:55 can't have HackEgo and myndzi have different length flags. or wait... 22:53:20 it'll be broken anyway. 22:53:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 22:59:25 can we +q myndzi instead 22:59:26 if myndzi has voice, i demand voice! \o/ 22:59:26 | 22:59:26 |\ 23:03:18 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v myndzi. 23:03:37 and we can't have _that_. 23:03:56 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:06:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:08:18 -!- Bike has joined. 23:09:05 boily: yes <-- i believe the " , please" makes your answer incorrect unless you actually do it 23:10:00 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:10:10 Even if you use it zzo38-style? 23:10:37 ERM 23:10:40 NOT SURE 23:11:24 `log zzo38>.*please 23:11:36 `log zzo38>.*, please.?$ 23:11:51 2011-01-04.txt:20:30:31: cheater99: Hay you! Stop cheating, please! 23:11:51 2011-04-18.txt:04:32:11: Maybe submit the report and then they can correct it please. 23:12:31 `log zzo38>.*, please.?$ 23:12:31 `log zzo38>.*, please.?$ 23:12:31 `log zzo38>.*, please.?$ 23:12:39 2011-10-09.txt:04:06:50: Unicode works for some things, but you should not always use it, please. 23:12:39 2013-03-12.txt:06:10:35: If you can't use geosynchronous orbits for triangulation, then it would be the idea that if you have satellites that need triangulation, remember to don't make them geosynchronous, please. 23:12:40 2011-04-10.txt:01:56:49: O, go drink hydroxic acid, please. 23:12:51 Hm. 23:13:01 shachaf: I THINK YOUR THEORY IS BADLY SUPPORTED 23:13:04 is that zzo lashing out in anger 23:13:12 because if so... 23:13:21 `log zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:13:22 `log zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:13:22 `log zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:13:29 2011-03-13.txt:05:29:13: oerjan: Can you ask elliott to correct it please? 23:13:29 2010-04-04.txt:07:17:02: Quadrescence: Why do you think that, please? 23:13:30 2011-12-20.txt:22:11:21: Not exactly what it does? Can you elaborate on that please? 23:13:48 `log zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:13:48 `log zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:13:52 Hm. 23:13:52 2012-03-02.txt:08:08:11: Do you have better idea please? 23:13:53 2013-03-30.txt:03:20:12: pikhq: Does it depend on how it is generated? Can you give details please? 23:14:32 shachaf: give up already. or it least use `pastelogs 23:14:45 `pastelogs zzo38>.* please\?$ 23:15:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24912 23:15:13 quadrescence used to be in here? 23:15:21 `pastelogs zzo38>.* please.?$ 23:15:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20462 23:15:47 Bike: Do you know them from #lisp? 23:15:54 and a few other places, yes 23:16:20 *at 23:20:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:32:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:35:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:36:29 -!- augur has joined. 23:36:51 shachaf: Let me verify something: in the category of matrices with multiplication, are the objects natural numbers corresponding to matrix dimensions? 23:37:02 Yep. 23:37:06 Ok, thanks 23:37:09 WHO was bathrooming with me?!?!? 23:37:36 ion: There's another way to look at that category: The objects are R^n for natural numbers n, and the arrows are linear maps. 23:38:32 Sgeo: the CIA 23:39:59 sgeo: Why would the World Health Organization do that? 23:40:34 shachaf: Hmm, interesting. 23:41:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:22 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:43:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:43:34 waht 23:45:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:46:08 kmc: no, baht 23:47:13 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:55:37 -!- Bike has joined. 2013-09-07: 00:05:49 @messages-public 00:05:49 Unknown command, try @list 00:05:52 @list 00:05:52 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 00:05:59 @list messages 00:06:00 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages 00:06:04 @messages-loud 00:06:04 oerjan said 2h 51m 33s ago: Is there a name for those monads which are implementable even if bind can call its continuation at most 1 time? <-- i don't know but the STMonadTrans package 00:06:04 refers to those without a name. 00:06:04 oerjan said 2h 50m 38s ago: or well, i assume it's essentially the same. 00:06:45 if i had to make up a name i would call them affine monads 00:06:54 that's probably a) a confusing name b) already something else 00:07:03 nonlinear monads 00:07:23 The reason I'm interested is because instead of passing in a real continuation, you could pass in, say, a function that resumes a coroutine 00:07:56 Bike: linear would be even stronger than this, you would have to use it _exactly_ once. 00:07:57 isn't that related to that one thing oleg talks about 00:08:19 So languages that have first-class coroutines but not first-class continuations can have nice syntax based on that for those monads, if not all monads 00:08:39 Although in imperative languages most of those monads probably aren't that interesting, sadly 00:08:57 And the interesting ones like list can't do the coroutine thing 00:09:15 can you describe this property in terms of fmap/join/return 00:10:43 is it just a property of fmap 00:13:01 @src join 00:13:01 join x = x >>= id 00:15:10 -!- augur has joined. 00:26:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:31:30 ?messages-loud 00:31:30 boily said 2d 5h 9m 16s ago: “Automynorcagrammatical” what the fungot... I like that one. 00:32:05 * copumpkin hugs shachaf 00:32:17 hi copumpkin 00:32:21 what happen 00:32:33 (not that i object to hugz!!) 00:32:42 somebody set up us the bomb!! 00:33:03 ???? 00:33:11 maybe you can come visit with edwardk next month 00:33:19 he giving another talk or something? 00:33:28 yep 00:34:06 man, I'm such an asshole 00:34:09 I never visit 00:34:39 you could come play mölkky with me and kmc! 00:35:49 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to valleypumpkin. 00:39:04 hmm 00:39:08 this marmite isn't going to eat itself 00:39:10 sorry, can't go 00:39:32 h8r 00:39:39 no but seriously 00:39:42 it's a brand new 500g jar 00:39:52 You have over a month! 00:39:52 and I'm not lying: it really isn't going to eat itself 00:40:00 eating marmite is srs bsns 00:40:11 You can bring it here with you. 00:40:17 no no that's the problem 00:40:20 there's a crack in the lid 00:40:24 it leaked in the box 00:40:29 and now means I can't transport it easily 00:40:47 if not for that I'd totally go to CA 00:40:54 >_> 00:41:03 i'll just arrange some marmite for you over here 00:41:11 shachaf: ICFP? 00:41:13 and someone to destroy the old jar 00:41:21 it'll be just like marmite teleportation 00:41:25 I won't be going to ICFP. :-( 00:41:26 are you _sure_ marmite doesn't eat itself, i've heard disturbing things... 00:41:34 but I would know it wasn't _my_ jar 00:41:41 it'd break my heart 00:41:44 valleypumpkin: no, it'd be extensionally equal 00:41:49 oh, my gf just got a new dog! 00:42:02 h8r 00:42:12 no, lovr 00:42:19 he was a h8r boi 00:42:27 she said see ya sk7r boi 00:42:42 perhaps I shouldn't be misquoting avril on the intarwebz 00:43:20 i 9t as if 2 now 00:43:44 the fuck is going on 00:44:09 valleypumpkin: i'm sure you want to play mölkky 00:44:16 how does that work? 00:44:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6lkky 00:44:36 kmc can confirm that it's good 00:45:31 oh that looks fun 00:46:00 do you and kmc hang out much? 00:47:46 http://paste.tclers.tk/2729 00:48:04 how much is much 00:49:11 `? marmite 00:49:14 marmite? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:49:14 | 00:49:14 o/`¯º 00:50:12 Phantom_Hoover: is 4 2 as i s7 rite 00:52:19 `learn Marmite is a group mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. 00:52:24 I knew that. 00:54:20 fungot: wait, what do you know about this. 00:54:21 oerjan: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! i'll be right.) still don't cut, and among the rafters. withel regarded it without the cod title on it hard to fiqure out what going, tough one. if we solve it,... 00:55:50 is copumpkin in The Valley 00:58:36 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:08:43 nah 01:14:18 -!- valleypumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 01:18:40 bummer 01:18:53 we should invent a way to play mölkky over the internet 01:19:00 build some kind of mölkky-bot 01:19:11 sounds like fun 01:19:21 but first you should make your own mölkky 01:20:01 MYOM 01:36:00 * oerjan swats CallForJudgement for not knowing the alphabet -----### 01:38:43 * shachaf swaps oerjan for a good overlord 01:47:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:15 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 02:08:43 `run tclsh 02:08:44 bash: tclsh: command not found 02:08:47 bah 02:11:17 Can I punch someone? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18649855/tcl-how-substitution-occures-in-if-statement/18651365#18651365 02:16:03 no 02:19:05 oerjan: but there's more than one 02:19:08 you can't expect me to know all of them 02:20:14 «Sorry, but int tcl there is no difference between the string "0" and the value 0.» why, god 02:20:35 Bike: there isn't in Perl either, it's not that much of a problem 02:20:47 because strings and ints have entirely different operators for dealing with them 02:21:00 are you god 02:21:03 so if you use + it's interpreted as an int, and if you use . (string concatenation) it's interpreted as a string 02:21:05 Bike: no 02:23:27 Bike: Do you actually know any Tcl? 02:23:31 CallForJudgement: well i think your insistence that o is before n in the alphabet is very unconventional. 02:23:33 no 02:23:58 It's an interesting language in some ways. Not without its flaws, but still interesting 02:24:08 Bike: if you really want something to complain at, it's that there's no distinction between strings and subroutines 02:24:55 CallForJudgement: you mean between strings and code? Because if I store an argument and body in foo, I can't just call $foo. Wish I could 02:25:32 Sgeo: err, yes 02:25:46 or to put it another way, Tcl does everything with eval 02:26:18 CallForJudgement: the eval thing is really what interests me about Tcl, but I'd prefer an eval that operates on stuff that has more information than strings do 02:26:25 e.g. the way Rebol does things 02:26:37 some kind of ""symbol"" eh 02:26:56 why not an eval that operates on compiled code? 02:27:14 anyway, does anyone know a verilog synthesisy thing i can use that isn't the heap i'm supposed to use for class 02:27:27 Because constructing and rearranging compiled code from scratch is difficult? 02:27:34 the build report has a table of contents. it goes on for pages 02:27:51 for about... 15 lines 02:28:12 Bike: sadly, verilog/VHDL synthesizers tend to be massively target-specific 02:28:14 and suck 02:28:25 fuck. 02:28:31 there's Icarus Verilog, which is pretty good and non-sucky, but it needs plugins to target specific hardware 02:28:35 rather than just compile to VHDL or the like 02:28:42 and those probably aren't available 02:28:53 btw, who manufactured your FPGA? 02:28:56 compile to vhdl? aren't vhdl and verilog on the same level 02:28:57 Digilent 02:29:29 Bike: yeah, they're on the same level 02:29:36 compiling to VHDL isn't massively useful 02:29:43 but it's more or less all you can do unless you have something lower-level to compile to 02:29:52 eesh 02:29:54 and all the lower-level languages are FPGA-specific and often proprietary 02:30:02 well, they're like machine code, only nobody will tell you what it means 02:30:04 CallForJudgement: imagine Tcl with lexical scope 02:30:06 just a huge array of 1s and 0s 02:30:10 i'm wondering if i could figure out how the stupid thing works and have my own tools 02:30:15 but... yeah, the bitfiles look pretty undocumented 02:30:35 also, I've never used an FPGA by Diligent 02:30:50 so far, I've tried Altera and Xilinx, and concluded that Xilinx's development tools suck so badly we can't use them at all 02:30:54 it's a semi-local company, i think. mostly educational stuff. 02:31:00 xilinx is the development tool i'm using! 02:31:03 yaaaaay 02:31:04 whereas Altera's are quirky and have a bad UI, but at least it works 02:31:24 i mean, i got it working, and that's about all i can about it. 02:31:27 until I found a way to avoid having to do it, the worst part was port assignment 02:31:29 positively, i mean. 02:31:31 CallForJudgement: has someone started a rumor that it's because the lower-level languages all have CIA/NSA backdoors yet? 02:31:55 basically, you have ports in your code, and you want to assign them to ports on the actual chip 02:32:09 to do this, you have to use a weird editor thing that lets you select the ports from each side from drop-downs 02:32:20 oh, yeah, that's annoying. 02:32:23 there are like 200 possibilities for the port on the chip, and they're in one drop-down box 02:32:31 er, wait. no, i just wrote a ucf and that worked. 02:32:33 and you have to select via the mouse, after screenfuls of scrolling 02:32:50 is ucf a xilinx-specific thing. please say no 02:32:50 the keyboard doesn't help because they're all "PORT_whatever" and it only autocompletes the first character 02:33:02 Bike: I'm not sure; it doesn't work on the Altera tools, or else I'd use it :( 02:33:07 aaaaah 02:33:09 but this could be xilinx being specific or altera being ignorant 02:33:26 looks pretty xilinx-specific from google. god damn. 02:33:31 the problem with xilinx wasn't the port assignment UI (UCF is fine), but the facts that the ports were all undocumented 02:33:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:44 and after a week of searching we couldn't find enough documentation to figure out which ports to assign 02:33:50 my professor is related to the company that made the board. maybe i can, like, blackmail him into telling me the bitfile format. 02:33:52 including contacting actual people who worked for xilinx and asking 02:33:54 Why do you even need some GUI and other specific stuff; can't they make some generic FPGA? 02:34:09 CallForJudgement: wait, wait, i'm confused. the ports are on the hardware, yes? 02:34:12 zzo38: they probably could, but they don't because it would cut into their margins 02:34:20 Bike: yeah, but the hardware comes on development boards 02:34:28 zzo38: probably because there hasn't been nearly as big an open hardware as open software movement. 02:34:37 because there are hundreds of pins and so you can't connect to them by hand, so you need to use a presoldered board 02:34:40 CallForJudgement: i mean, it's the board manufacturer that should be documenting the ports, not xilinx? 02:34:43 and xilinx wouldn't give documentation as to what pin connected to what 02:34:47 Bike: I think they made the board 02:34:56 as well as the FPGA 02:34:59 hm 02:35:12 anyway, their only officially supported way to use the board was to use a closed-source addon module with a crazy configuration wizard 02:35:15 that sucks, from digilent i got actual schematics, in addition to the manual 02:35:28 that went and synthesized a CPU with a custom bus pattern for communicating with the rest of your circuit onto the FPGA 02:35:35 (i'm still not sure which port is the PCM but whatever) 02:35:38 CallForJudgement: jesus christ. 02:35:48 so now we can't just GPIO, we have to deal with all this abstraction nonsense 02:36:45 like, i don't know, am i doing this weird? what i do is write some verilog, put it in xilinx's stupid "project" crap, hit build, wait five minutes, a bitfile comes out, and then i use a digilent thing (outside of xilinx) to program the fpga with the bitfile. 02:37:25 so i can, like, just have some bitfiles around and use digilent's nice commandline interface to put them on the board, without launching xilinx destroyer of worlds 02:37:42 Bike: no, that's actually a much saner workflow than normal 02:37:52 especially the "five minutes" part 02:38:04 it was quite common for me to have dinner for my supervisor while waiting for things to compile 02:38:06 are you serious. 02:38:12 FUCK 02:38:26 Bike: here, see http://www.veritygos.org/documentation 02:38:36 specifically, the section "Compiling for synthesis, on an already supported architecture" 02:38:50 this is your thing, right? 02:39:00 Verity's my hardware language, yes 02:39:07 but most of that section is about setting up the Altera tools correctly 02:39:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:39:28 I think if they made a generic open source FPGA, they could compete with the other FPGA companies successfully 02:39:50 steps 1, 3, 4, 9 are mine, the rest is Quartus fiddling 02:39:56 however, that documentation is old, we found an easier way 02:40:07 "For the libraries provided with the compiler, use the following configuration: disable all the checkbox options apart from Clock, Button x 4, 7-Segment x 8, Switch x 18, and leave all the other options at their defaults. 02:40:11 " :| 02:40:11 specifically, the workflow now is that we get the Altera-provided tools to create a project 02:40:29 and then get our own compiler to overwrite carefully chosen parts of it with our own provided files 02:40:40 zzo38: wouldn't the main problem be that custom ICs don't come cheap (disclaimer i know shit-all about fpga) 02:40:40 that cuts out steps 10 and 11 02:40:52 CallForJudgement: this is scary. 02:40:52 oh and 9 02:41:03 Bike: Yes I know it can be expensive 02:41:06 because you just specify a path to the project as an argument to the compiler 02:41:17 Bike: yes 02:41:22 fuck, maybe i'll just ask my professor about this 02:41:28 OTOH, it holds a possibly unique position in the history of hardware synthesis 02:41:30 i mean he liked xilinx but god this is silly 02:41:42 we have, on record, someone quote as saying that they followed the instructions and it worked first time 02:41:47 *quoted 02:41:49 somehow i doubt i can convince a professional that this is silly, but still!! 02:42:00 CallForJudgement: "had to put 'em through a polygraph just to be sure" 02:42:27 But I know I would buy it, and I think there are other people that would buy it too. 02:42:53 zzo38: the problem is that the business model used by FPGA manufacturers at the moment is to make the FPGAs cheaply (so that they can be placed in products), then charge very large amounts for the development tools 02:42:55 zzo38: well, you need capital to start with. 02:43:07 and... yeah, lots of resistance here. 02:43:22 knowing that people will never be able to program them on their own 02:43:30 both Xilinx and Altera gave us copies free, though 02:43:40 xilinx has a free thing i'm using. 02:43:47 i doubt i could do anything hardcore with it, but. 02:43:53 oh, and i still had to do some dumb "licensing" thing. 02:44:04 basically because if you can credibly say "we're doing research into a new way to compile programs onto FPGAs", they both care about it working with their product 02:44:04 Do they earn or lose money on FPGA sales? 02:44:13 zzo38: I suspect they earn money but with small margins 02:45:04 well, lessee. the cheapest board usable with my class is fifty bucks for students, and eighty nine otherwise 02:45:28 Oh, right. The boards are Digilent but built around a Xilinx FPGA. 02:45:31 i am not good at this, sorry. 02:46:21 Bike: Diligent have probably found a gap in the market: buy other people's FPGAs, make development boards for them that aren't a nightmare to program 02:46:44 it sometimes takes us like an hour just to get the cable connected correctly between the computer and FPGA 02:46:46 mm 02:46:49 which wouldn't seem to be difficult because it's a USB cable 02:46:56 digilent is education bent, so that would definitely make sense 02:47:10 but sometimes it just doesn't work for no obvious reason 02:47:25 i think they provide some kind of library api i should probably look at 02:48:26 CallForJudgement: That may be the business model, but if others make it the other business model (don't provide development tools at all; only documentation), then they can compete with the others seriously rather than just being another minor FPGA manufacturer. 02:48:31 "By accepting this license, you agree that you will not modify, adapt, decompile, reverse engineer, translate, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code for the Software" well, time to void a warranty 02:49:46 CallForJudgement: anyway, the other frustration right now is that during build xilinx lists some "command lines" but i don't even know where the actual programs are, which would be nice because i could use the same programs but from emacs or something 02:50:17 Bike: oh no, don't try that, seriously 02:50:21 ? 02:50:25 AFAICT it's some custom cygwin-based monstrosity 02:50:31 for god's sake. 02:50:49 And then provide volume discounts instead of making the chips less expensive and the software really expensive. 02:51:00 not sure if it's still cygwin-based on Linux 02:51:08 I hope not, but I'm horrified enough at the rest of things that it seems possible 02:51:28 you're making me really glad i'm not interested in this field as a thing on its own 02:52:22 and I'm making me glad that I get to use Verilog/VHDL as a compiler output target 02:52:34 rather than having to deal with the horrors of the abstraction levels below 02:52:40 grgh. 02:53:34 what's $_ and $# in shell? 02:53:35 also that I can live mostly on simulator, except when we badly need nonzero performance 02:53:43 I think the first is just a variable called _ 02:53:51 the second probably does something, I'm not sure tohugh 02:54:18 $# is the number of arguments 02:54:32 hrm, well this script is using $_ for something. 02:54:49 _ is a perfectly good variable name! 02:54:54 There are some things I don't like about Verilog/VHDL which is why I was making some of my own ideas and called it "HWPL". One difference from Verilog is that numbers are given in binary by default instead of decimal (you need a prefix for decimal or hex); another is that there is only one I/O port which is a bit vector (and a bit vector can contain some inputs, some outputs, some analog, etc) but any number of macro parameters 02:55:16 Since I wanted to think of what features are better for hardware programming language rather than software programming 02:55:21 CallForJudgement: i mean, it doesn't assign it or anything. 02:55:37 hmm 02:55:53 verilog constants have been annoying me. is something like {28{1'b1}} for 28 1s considered kosher? 02:56:30 Bike: huh 02:56:35 I ran "echo $_", and got "sh" 02:56:39 oh boy. 02:56:42 `run echo $_ 02:56:44 bash 02:56:48 Bike: I know there are those things, and other things 02:56:54 then I tried to assign to _, ran it again, got the null string 02:57:02 i ran it in my shell and got "--color=auto". 02:57:06 then the next time I tried that, I got "echo" 02:57:08 CallForJudgement: What is your opinion of feature of hardware programming languages? 02:57:19 aha, it appears to be the most recently run command 02:57:24 zzo38: "kosher" as in "is this bad programming style only a noob like me would like" 02:57:29 or maybe the most recently used argument of it 02:57:47 yeah, after running "ps u", $_ had the value "u" 02:58:12 Bike: I don't know if it is considered kosher but I wouldn't expect it to matter 02:58:16 Bike: sadly, I mostly only know VHDL 02:58:22 where I would write (others => '1') 02:58:28 this does `readlink -f ${$_}` 02:58:33 zzo38: i mean, is this considered readable 02:58:34 the Verilog you have there looks like a reasonable translation of it 02:58:57 CallForJudgement: how is vhdl? some of the example files use it and it looks more ... i dunno really 02:59:19 Bike: To me it is probably the most readable way as far as I can tell 02:59:22 Bike: apparently, the design goal for VHDL was explicitly "write a hardware description language that is as similar to ADA as possible" 02:59:49 (the language is actually called Ada, but I think VHDL's devs were addicted to allcaps) 02:59:50 Are there better hardware programming languages? 02:59:53 CallForJudgement: um... i don't know what to think about that. 02:59:56 zzo38: ok. 03:00:00 zzo38: there's Verity ;) 03:00:33 Bike: think declarations that are typically more verbose than the actual definitions, and a very high level of pedantry and accuracy 03:00:43 CallForJudgement: I looked and think that is worse for hardware; I mean one that is very close to hardware rather than having features of software programming 03:00:47 my professor basically said "most people use verilog, some people use vhdl, a few dipshits use schematics, and there are some other languages who cares" 03:00:48 but which also makes it very hard to make a typo that isn't caught by the compiler 03:00:57 CallForJudgement: hm hm hm. 03:01:11 sadly, it cannot catch logic errors :( 03:01:22 meanwhile, if you make a typo in Verilog, the code will probably still compile and even run 03:01:38 yes that's been pissing me off 03:02:27 so it's basically the opposite extreme of finickiness 03:02:30 One thing I don't really like in Verilog is how you need multiple I/O ports instead of just putting it all in one vector, and how calling a module requires the call to have a name 03:02:40 I prefer VHDL, maybe because I know it and I don't like Verilog 03:02:48 i should get figuring how to make submodules. 03:02:50 zzo38: oh, the latter one annoyed me too, until I understood why it is 03:02:55 it's basically to make debugging even possible 03:03:17 I did think of that, but I still think it is not a good idea 03:03:22 having tens of thousands of wires you have to search through is bad enough 03:03:37 if they aren't labelled properly, it's even worse 03:03:39 Or at least make it optional 03:03:42 zzo38: er, like, rather than having "input [4:0] btn, input [7:0] sw" and so on you just have a single input bus? 03:04:01 Bike: it's for a zzoism 03:04:17 I had this discussion a while back; zzo38 wants a feature that's interesting, but mostly specific to his usecase 03:04:20 well, yes. 03:04:23 so it's unlikely that anyone will add it 03:04:27 Bike: I mean just a single I/O vector; all inputs and outputs and combined in/out and analog and all that stuff would be part of one vector, and then the parts can be given names 03:04:40 that seems weird. 03:04:52 CallForJudgement: No it isn't specific to usecase, really; actually I think it is better feature for hardware programming in general 03:05:17 zzo38: typically, I don't want to do bitshifts by accident 03:05:31 and especially, I don't want to bitshift half a variable on top of one variable, and a different half on top of another 03:05:45 it'd be more useful to be able to route all the bits to signals of my choice individually 03:05:56 zzo38: I wonder what you think of Tcl 03:06:02 but that's what the "assign" statement of Verilog and the "<=" statement of VHDL already do 03:06:24 CallForJudgement: Well, I can give example of what I want in terms of some code of the experimental "HWPL" I made up, it might be something like: 03:07:39 continuing my shell questions, what does «. "$sfn" "$d"» do? 03:08:32 MODULE !MAIN() {.THIS,.THAT} BEGIN WIRE .THIS[7:0]; REG .THAT[7:0]; CONNECT .THIS TO .THAT; END; MODULE !MAIN2() {.ALL} BEGIN WIRE .ALL[15:0]; !MAIN() .ALL; END; 03:08:45 shouty 03:08:57 You would need # before the 7 and 15 though 03:09:10 To indicate they are decimal numbers rather than keywords 03:09:14 Bike: it's basically equivalent to «sh "$sfn" "$d"» except more efficient 03:09:23 because it uses the shell that's already running rather than starting a new one 03:09:27 CallForJudgement: Why the new nick? 03:09:34 shachaf: we had a discussion about nicks earlier 03:09:34 oh, ok, that makes sense 03:09:35 it's not a new nick 03:09:38 just one I rarely use on Freenode 03:09:50 last -cl 03:09:52 Er. 03:09:54 been wondering what thisfile does and it turns out it runs a bunch of crap 03:09:57 who saw that coming 03:10:59 Or even something like: WIRE .THIS[#7:0]; REG .THAT[#7:0]; CONNECT {.THIS[#7:#4],.THAT[#7:#4]} TO {.THAT[#3:0],.THIS[#3:0]} WHEN &{.THAT[#2],.THAT[#4],.THAT[#6]}; 03:11:12 If you know what kind of things I am meaning by that? 03:11:53 CallForJudgement: Do you see what some of my ideas are now? 03:12:00 okay, this shell file says the xilinx stuff won't work if some environment variable related to the linker is set. 03:12:05 zzo38: CONNECT … WHEN strikes me as really unfortunate syntax 03:12:11 getting more and more terrified 03:12:12 it's not like the variable gets disconnected when the condition's fase 03:12:26 Bike: I warned you to be terrified in advance! 03:12:40 CallForJudgement: What is it then? 03:12:48 well now i'm terrifieder 03:12:50 *false 03:13:08 zzo38: well in VHDL, you're supposed to use a when … when … else chain so that the signal always has a value 03:13:26 ion: ion ion ion 03:13:27 unless you're assigning in a process (i.e. at a clock edge), in which case you use "if" not "when" 03:13:52 CallForJudgement: OK, I understand that, but what if one pin is used sometimes for input and sometimes for output? Sometimes there will not have a signal. 03:13:53 lol holy shit this thing fucks up $PATH 03:14:24 zzo38: you still have to assign it a value, but you assign it "Z" as the output while it's inputting 03:14:34 O, that's how it works. 03:14:51 to say that you're not sourcing or sinking 03:15:57 aha, i have found the actually run programs! 03:16:21 here, have an line from Verity's standard library with variables anonymized (mostly because their names are horrific): assign v = (L_ENABLE == `A)? L : {8{1'bz}}; 03:16:31 I was thinking to make it the value of a WIRE is automatically Z by default and of a REG is automatically X by default; if you have multiple values connected to something at the same time then it is bus conflict and might damage the hardware. 03:17:09 zzo38: REG is X by default on all systems, which is really annoying 03:17:18 because you simulate the reset, but the reset takes some time to occur 03:17:26 and typically you don't reset the output of arithmetic operations, just the inputs 03:17:33 (because that'll make the output reset by itself) 03:17:36 err, actually, it's U 03:17:50 hm, the synthesizer program is 20K. this does not bode well at all, no no no. 03:17:56 a special case of X that's used to allow distinguishing between X-due-to-uninitialized and X-due-to-conflict 03:18:05 Bike: check whether it's a text file 03:18:18 nah, it's an elf 03:18:27 are you on Linux? 03:18:34 yeah 03:18:40 (note: I could actually believe that it would be an elf even on Windows) 03:18:51 i'm wondering if this is just a wrapper around a cygwin call 03:18:56 thanks for planting the seeds of doubt!! 03:18:59 so anyway, you can't possibly reset the system fast enough to not get warnings about doing arithmetic on U 03:19:38 without adding a bunch of extra circuitry (that ends up in the compiled hardware) purely for the purpose of suppressing the warnings 03:20:04 the simulator I use (GHDL, which is really ancient at this point) actually has a --ieee-warnings=disable-at-0 for this purpose 03:20:13 presumably its dev got annoyed too 03:20:42 i think i'm starting to understand why build takes five minutes. 03:21:12 seriously, five minutes is fast 03:21:35 most likely you're using really lax time constraints (i.e. slow clock) and only utilizing a small part of the board 03:21:46 so it can just place the various components down pretty much at random and it still works 03:21:57 when your utilization goes up, placing/routing becomes really really difficult 03:22:01 because computers are so bad at it 03:22:11 they basically try to do it with evolutionary algorithms, which is far from ieal 03:22:13 *ideal 03:22:18 yeah, i get that, but i think a lot of the timing is startup shit, i mea. 03:22:18 mean 03:22:36 like, it takes five minutes even if it's a module consisting of "assign led = sw;" 03:22:53 there's quite possibly quite a bit of stdlib on the board 03:23:09 how many warnings do you get for that oneliner? 03:23:13 Other ideas I have includes such things as a MORTON built-in acting like INTERCAL's bit interleave operator; SELECT acting like INTERCAL's select although the right operand has to be a static value (the left can be static or dynamic, and that becomes also the type of the result), and some others 03:23:14 if it's less than 1000, I'm disappointed 03:23:27 zzo38: meh, SELECT is boring, HOKEY/COKEY is a lot more interesting 03:23:29 CallForJudgement: no warnings, but lots of messages about initializing things to 85°C 03:23:58 I get warnings about things like clocks appearing to be clocks 03:24:16 So something like SELECT(10XZ,#5) is 0Z 03:24:19 or that it went and optimized a component into two different components then back to one 03:24:30 which is a serious warning because one of the components seemed to be useless 03:24:42 or that I haven't carefully put time constraints on every single part of the program 03:24:54 zzo38: also, SELECT as a primitive is quite pointless, it works better as a library function 03:24:58 yeah my favorite warning so far is that i set a register wrong, so it said it optimized out a flop 03:25:05 and that triggered optimizing out a flop for the next highest bit 03:25:12 so i got a warning for every bit of the register. 03:25:21 especially because different selects might need different timing properties 03:25:28 it's like multiplication being a primitive in VHDL and Verilog 03:25:33 in practice, actually using it is a really bad idea 03:25:38 CallForJudgement Maybe these things could be, if there is the way to implement it, I suppose; it would help 03:25:45 because a single-cycle multiply is going to take up a huge amount of silicon no matter what 03:26:01 yeah i was surprised that addition is primitive in verilog, even 03:26:03 Still I would have in HWPL, the arithmetic operators are static only and cannot be used with dynamic operands 03:26:03 and if you're trying to save silicon by doing it in multiple cycles, now you need a library module, not a primitive 03:26:04 what's going on there? 03:26:12 Bike: fortunately, I believe division isn't 03:26:15 just add, subtract, multiply 03:26:19 yeah but like, why 03:26:27 it's kind of convenient but it seems like it would be library 03:26:32 And there still is timing specifications allowed on all expressions and commands though, with minimum, typical, and maximum 03:26:47 Bike: partly it's for compile-time array indexing and the like, I guess 03:26:59 i was just using it for a counter incrementing every clockk 03:27:13 one of my highest coursework marks ever was on a project for writing a parallel sort in VHDL 03:27:21 which is, of course, a recursive algorithm 03:27:24 actually i might as well ask about semantics; is the addition wraparound? 03:27:36 now, VHDL has an obvious syntax for recursion, but attempting to use it drives most compilers into an infinite loop or crashes them 03:27:44 nice. 03:27:56 thus, I had to write a recursive module instantiation entirely with for-generate loops 03:28:23 which I did via putting all the signals into one large vector and doing crazy maths to get everything joined up together 03:28:31 also, yes, addition is wraparound 03:28:40 actually multiplication is the most interesting, because it could be signed or unsigned 03:28:47 and in VHDL, which it is depends on which libraries you import 03:28:56 amazing stuff. 03:29:03 you have a choice of three: one which makes all arithmetic signed, one where it's unsigned, and one where you use explicit casts to signed or unsigned 03:29:23 "_ZN4Port10ExecLoader4Util17VCRunTimeDLLCheckEbPKc" starting to regret this 03:29:44 oh, that's not so bad 03:29:48 that's just C++ name mangling 03:29:56 yeah, i mean, what it's referring to. 03:30:00 looks vaguely like gcc's 03:30:03 there's lots of "ExecLoader" in these strings. 03:30:09 also, this is a stripped file. 03:30:15 actually, more worrying is the "DLL" 03:30:20 yes, that too 03:30:24 a string that doesn't have much meaning on Linux 03:30:28 but plenty of meaning on Windows 03:30:42 I think I came to the conclusion that Xilinx doesn't really care about the distinction between Linux and Windows 03:30:48 "/proc/%d/exe" ummmm 03:30:51 and just tries to find some sort of way to make things work anyway 03:31:06 i found a folder called "java". i'm really, really hoping it just uses java. 03:31:27 Bike: you probably weren't here when I said this, but for a microcontroller, the company released a custom compiler for it with an n day free trial 03:31:34 and that compiler was quite clearly a gcc derivative 03:31:49 now, source code was available, they were technically in compliance with the GPL 03:32:09 but also I was technically in compliance with the license (the GPL) when I looked at the source to see how the n day free trial lockout worked 03:32:22 and patched it out 03:32:29 this is probably the best argument for the GPL i've ever heard :p 03:32:49 actually, I didn't recompile, that would have been a mess; rather, it turned out to communicate with a license-checking executable via fork/exec and checking the exit code 03:32:57 (or the Winowds equivalent) 03:32:58 awesome. 03:33:00 *Windows 03:33:08 so I replaced the license check with a copy of DNA Maze 03:33:26 haha. 03:33:52 The GPL certainly allows such things like that to happen; if you don't want to pay for the full version then you can fix it yourself after every new version that is released 03:34:02 (I was on Windows, and didn't have a copy of true handy) 03:34:20 OK, so, my horror is mounting. 03:34:36 DNA maze? 03:34:40 Bike: at Xilinx, or at DNA Maze? 03:34:41 The bin/lin directory is full of programs. stuff that gets run on the "command line" by the GUI, like the layouter and whatever. 03:34:47 Sgeo: computer game I wrote a while back, it's unfinished 03:34:52 And some other stuff like "qt3config" 03:34:53 however, it's finished past the point where most people give up playing 03:35:00 oh, and "xilperl". 03:35:14 Bike: try giving a -v to xilperl and seeing what happens 03:35:17 anyway, all of these programs 03:35:20 are 20K 03:35:26 and have the same sorts of stuff in strings 03:35:33 i'm freakin out!! 03:35:39 actually, if it's a working Perl 03:35:46 then you could probe its configuration from inside 03:35:48 via Perl scripts 03:35:59 Perl has lots of introspection on the actual executable that's running 03:36:12 "This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i686-linux Modified to use XILPERL* instead of PERL* environment variables." oh please no 03:36:18 even better, if it's a working Perl, then messing around with it is perfectly legal 03:36:20 because GPL 03:36:24 also Artistic License 03:36:47 (it's a multilicense, so Xilinx get to pick which to ship it under) 03:37:06 yeah i clicked through like four dozen licenses when i installed this thing, several of which were gpl 03:37:42 also, it strikes me as crazy to modify Perl purely to rename the environment variables it uses 03:38:02 shipping your own perl is kind of crazy too! 03:38:34 oh, huh 03:38:44 artistic license is not copyleft enough to prevent them restricting you using it 03:38:52 xilinx are probably relying on 3c and 8 03:39:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 03:39:15 the reason it's called xilperl is almost certainly 3c, which requires you to rename the executables if you use it 03:39:39 that's also why the changes to environment variables are documented 03:39:48 because it requires you to document the differences 03:39:51 mornin' 03:39:56 hi Taneb 03:39:57 «$ENV{"XILINX"} = $ENV{"XXILINX"};» haha rock 03:39:57 CallForJudgement, why are you awake 03:40:01 why am I awake 03:40:05 Why does my back hurt 03:40:16 XXXiLinXXX 03:40:52 actually, I suspect that the breakdown of copyleftiness in this situation was intentional by the person or people who drafted the license 03:41:19 sabotage????? 03:41:53 no, as in the terms in question seem explicitly intended so that you can ship proprietary Perl programs via use of a custom Perl derivative 03:42:06 anyway, this sort of nonsense is why I'm such a GPL fan 03:42:06 ok so um 03:42:19 «diff file0 file1» would output nothing iff the files are identical, correct? 03:42:24 I understand the "worse for developers" argument, but the "better for users" is pretty strong 03:42:25 Bike: are you reverse engineering the xilinx fpga tools 03:42:26 Bike: indeed 03:42:36 so, um, it appears that all of these programs are identical. 03:42:43 kmc: it's more he/she's peeking into them and discovering the horror within 03:42:47 Bike: that's why it's reading /proc/self/exe 03:42:48 kmc: in my defense, they're really irritating! 03:42:50 to get at its own name 03:42:55 CallForJudgement: aaaaaah 03:43:03 I'm planning to do that in NetHack 4 03:43:16 is argv[0] not good enough 03:43:19 so that nethack4-tty and nethack4-sdl are both symlinks to the same executable 03:43:23 using argv[0] to tell them apart 03:43:30 presumably, xilinx cares about readlinking the executable 03:43:38 so that you can symlink to the executable without it not working 03:43:48 yeah, there's lots of readlinking in the setup, even. 03:43:49 The MS Paint Adventures server seems to be falling apart 03:43:54 420 readlink everyday 03:44:15 kmc: there are apparently fifty identical executables here. this is what i'm dealing with 03:44:17 -!- trout has changed nick to function. 03:44:33 well, good thing they're only 20K then 03:44:57 If you know how Xilinx FPGA works and how to not need their GUI (so that it can be done inside the FPGA itself!) then that would work 03:44:58 this actually seems like a decent security mechanism 03:45:03 kmc: -r---w---- readlink everyday 03:45:14 making your code so abysmally painful to think about that anyone competent enough to crack the security doesn't want to try 03:45:19 zzo38: well i'm trying to not use their GUI, though i think doing it on the fpga is rather ambitious for me. 03:45:32 :) 03:45:38 CallForJudgement: little did they take into account me -- a bored ignorant undergraduate. the ultimate weapon. 03:45:49 CallForJudgement: Maybe, but I don't think so. If you want to crack it then you do want to be painful anyways 03:46:00 kmc: btw mölkky has at least four names in various countries 03:46:24 e.g. number kubb, finska, klop 03:47:06 by the way, xilperl is one of these 20Ks 03:47:47 well it's clearly calling into a different executable somewhere 03:48:00 well yeah. 03:48:02 quite possibly on the local machine 03:48:23 haha 03:49:07 oh, hey, "xilhelp". clearly this is my path to salvation. 03:49:32 Bike: I'm not sure; the Xilinx tools output lots of incomprehensible errors 03:49:50 with an allegedly human-readable description which was meaningless, and a hyperlinked (at least, blue and underlined) error code 03:49:58 yes indeedily doo. 03:50:10 clicking on the code opened a web browser, but the resulting page was never useful 03:50:57 running xilhelp resulted in: "error while loading shared libraries: libXm.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". i can't say this was very helpful 03:51:29 well, just find a copy of libXm.so.4 03:51:34 and add it to the runtime path 03:51:46 i don't think i want to be helped that badly. 03:51:48 LD_LIBRARY_PATH, it seems 03:52:27 hm, google suggests this is also used by something called "Cognos Business Intelligence" 03:52:30 ominous imo... 03:52:44 well nobody names their company "Business Stupidity" 03:53:24 it's... part of openmotif. 03:53:26 what. 03:54:12 oh wow, on a webforum I read, somebody accidentally posted on the wrong subforum (a reasonable mistake), and edited the OP into a request to delete the thread (while there were no responses) 03:54:14 oh, i guess people still use motif. well, what withrawn, i guess. 03:54:20 a moderator saw it, and responded by stickying the thread 03:54:32 this seems to have the potential to end badly 03:54:45 uh? why 03:54:47 did they do that 03:54:51 who knows 03:55:34 people seem to be unsure how to contribute to it 03:55:49 most posts are either image macros or metadiscussion about the thread itself 03:56:14 (also, nobody but the OP seems to know what the thread was originally about) 03:56:29 «if ( -d "C:/" ) { $Platform = 'windows'; }» 03:56:56 there is a variable $^O 03:57:02 which exists for precisely this purpose 03:57:11 CallForJudgement: you do know the most upvoted reddit post ever is "test post please ignore" right? 03:57:26 oerjan: yes 03:57:34 also, it's very rare for Perl variables to start with capital letters 03:57:47 when they do, it typically means that they're global for some reason, yet being namespaced to certain packages 03:58:15 looks like all the variables are capitalized 03:58:18 that's unlikely to be happening here, because somehow I suspect there isn't a "use Platform;" involve 03:58:20 *involved 03:58:22 $CompedklibDefaultLogFile 03:58:46 nor, if such a package existed, would it likely be necessary to check for Windows by looking for the existence of the root of the C drive 03:58:51 oh, not just existence 03:58:54 it also checks that it's a directory 03:59:12 The system might not be on drive C though 03:59:17 you could probably cause chaos by creating a "C:" directory in the current directory 03:59:22 I have one of those in my home folder already 03:59:26 which points to Wine's simulated drive C 03:59:35 so this Xilinx software would fail for me, for completely mysterious reasons 04:00:00 this file is dated to '96. cool 04:00:14 You can fix the parts of the programs that have source-codes available 04:00:33 On my Windows I have the system on drive F: instead of drive C: 04:00:53 I wonder how much malware that instantly defeats 04:01:11 I don't know. 04:15:15 Anyone know what /usr/ucb is/ 04:15:16 is?* 04:16:44 "university of california, berkeley"?? 04:17:53 I think 04:18:39 i hope so 04:18:53 this thing is eroding me. 04:20:35 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:20:40 also, it includes the entire jre. 04:20:56 Bike: apt-cache hasn't heard of it, which is a bad sign 04:21:05 Twice, in fact, if I'm understanding this correctly 04:21:14 clearly it needs specific versions 04:21:17 and more than one of them 04:21:19 yeah, 5 and 6. 04:24:00 I have suggested to the DM of a D&D game, a kind of curse in my character (although it can be removed normally). 04:26:10 -!- augur has joined. 04:27:23 The demon (well, actually, almost-demon/almost-dragon, stuck in the middle of changing)'s brain is cursed, and now so am I; I no longer automatically heal damage (although spells and so on still work), and I take a -2 penalty to saves against divine spells cast by evil spellcasters. The curse can be removed normally although then I am hungry again. 04:30:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:36:51 People have argued about if FurryScript counts as esolang or not (this was a while ago). However, also notice things like CUTLASS, and Prehistory of esoteric programming languages. Also, Wikipedia mentions "Random text generators such as the Dada Engine and rmutt are examples of this kind of nondeterminstic language." Are Dada Engine and rmutt considered esolangs? 04:40:34 (FurryScript was not *intended* to be strange, it just is! Dada Engine and rmutt aren't so strange, but they also aren't so powerful.) 04:43:29 Do you know the answer of any of these questions at this time? 04:54:24 zzo38: What's the scripting that Furcadia uses? 04:56:41 Sgeo: I don't know. 04:56:42 DragonSpeak 04:56:50 That's what it is? OK 04:57:09 -!- nycs has joined. 04:57:44 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 04:59:50 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:59:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:04:12 Sgeo: Why do you want to know, and why do you ask me in particular? 05:04:33 Because FurryScript sounded like it would be the name 05:05:19 O, well, I suppose it isn't. 05:06:09 I don't know if FurryScript codes really resemble any other programming languages at all. Does it look like it to you? 05:06:50 I haven't actually looked at FurryScript 05:07:50 Did you look at it now? 05:12:31 MyOpenID is closing 05:14:45 It is? Do you use MyOpenID? 05:16:14 Yes 05:16:27 I've used MyOpenID for pretty much everything that asks for an OpenID 05:16:38 It's the one thing that Google hasn't encroached on in my life 05:16:44 Which... they will now, I guess 05:16:51 Need to switch accounts over if possible, ugh 05:18:46 How do I check what compiler a binary was compiled with based on its mangling style? 05:19:17 You could also run your own OpenID server if you have a server, or see if there is some other OpenID server 05:19:24 (I run my own OpenID server) 06:42:05 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:42:54 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:17:21 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:19:42 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:34:42 Bike: You can compare manually to the lists in Chapter 8 of http://www.agner.org/optimize/calling_conventions.pdf 07:35:48 -!- quintopia has joined. 07:39:53 Oh no, I don't have CallForJudgement -> ais523 in the nick-combine-map of #esoteric in the stats thing. 07:40:08 you can combine "scarf" too 07:40:13 That one I have. 07:40:18 And ais523\unfoog. 07:40:56 It's just that editing the list would involve rerunning the whole thing, and it takes a long. 07:41:20 Though I was supposed to combine two things there too, now I've forgotten who. 07:46:19 Is a CakeProphet the same thing as a kallisti? 07:46:49 In here it is. 08:01:23 unfoog? 08:02:19 /dev/null/nethack clan 08:28:49 Stats: updated. 08:30:05 I bet I've really dropped off recently 08:30:21 Well, yes. 08:30:31 Your presence bitmap has turned into these isolated vertical lines, basically. 08:31:38 fizzie: my problem is that nobody seems to want to talk about esolangs 08:31:45 offtopic discussion is one thing 08:31:56 lack of ontopic discussion, though, just means that the channel isn't actually about esoprogramming 08:32:02 so it's pointless to come here for esoprogramming discussion 08:33:27 That's certainly true. 08:34:06 and so the main question is just whether I find the offtopic discussion interesting enough to stick around 08:34:12 with the answer being "not really" 09:13:27 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:18:15 fizzie: Would it help to combine by address instead of nickname? 09:22:10 probably not 09:22:16 addresses can be unstable 09:22:25 I have a bunch that need combining, some of which are rarely used 09:45:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:46:16 -!- augur has joined. 09:55:06 On topic is sometimes, but rarely 09:56:07 Do you think FurryScript programs seem to resemble programs in any other programming languages, and if so, which ones, and how much resemblance? 10:01:30 There are none that I know of. 10:01:40 (But maybe you know better) 10:08:02 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:11:38 Furthermore, how much do the features resemble those of other programming languages? 10:27:29 I read about the "not provable" operator in Prolog; I was previously thinking of an operator to be added to any sequent calculus, which does something similar. 10:28:23 zzo38: you don't need an operator for that 10:28:30 you can implement it in terms of cut 10:28:46 \+ X :- X, !, fail. \+ _. 10:30:54 CallForJudgement: OK, so you can, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making anyways; rather I meant some operator (I called it an "oracle operator") which, if |- X isn't provable in some sequent calculus system then |- Oracle(X) is an axiom. So it isn't quite the same, although it might be related. 10:48:31 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:11:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:13:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:18:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:25:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:26:34 -!- augur has joined. 11:28:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:10:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:27:50 hmm, I note that oerjan cannot distinguish a thread, from thread 12:27:59 perhaps I was being unnecessarily poetic… 14:11:19 -!- conehead has joined. 14:50:38 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:50:45 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:01:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:04:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:13:15 -!- function has changed nick to constant. 15:21:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:27:24 -!- fizzie has joined. 15:29:17 Bah, it's always such a hassle whenever the electricity breaks. 15:29:32 (Last time was 475 days ago, so fortunately it's not exactly common.) 15:30:13 This time it seems that the BIOS battery of the router box has gone flat, because it was all "defaults set" and "no keyboard, press f1 to continue" when I went and plugged a monitor in to see what's up. 15:42:38 -!- CallForJudgement has quit. 15:52:02 @tell boily The USB issue I have seems to be a kernel bug in 3.2 (which I'm running since I'm stable Debian, this might make me go testing or manually build a newer kernel, whichever is least work) 15:52:02 Consider it noted. 15:53:02 I'm getting [428528.396567] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: ERROR no room on ep ring every time I plug or unplug a device on a specific other USB 2 hub 15:53:11 which affects the USB 3 devices 16:18:19 shachaf: sfhhaac sahahfc ashfhac 16:18:27 fizzie: is that why fungot is gone? 16:28:15 olsner: Yes. I'll see about getting that system back up soonishly. 16:30:20 fizzie, This Debian package looks pretty silly: linux-image-amd64:i386 16:30:45 that is the 64-bit kernel for multiarch x86 16:40:24 Ooh, should I get an -rt kernel? That sounds cool 16:41:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:48:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:16:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:17:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:18:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:20:07 Well, here goes nothing, just manually build a newer fglrx package for Debian stable. Going to reboot to kernel from backports now 17:21:15 your problem is fglrx 17:38:57 ↑ 17:48:56 coppro, yes. yes it is. 17:49:28 coppro, but good luck using more than two monitors with consumer nvidia cards! 17:49:46 You need multiple cards then 17:50:03 I think that's not true any more. 17:50:15 fizzie, oh? 17:50:26 You can run four monitors on my gt660, I believe. 17:50:26 Or is it 660 GTX? Something like that, anyway. 17:50:33 Hm 17:50:49 fizzie, think I can run 5 on mine, though I only use 3 currently 17:51:09 They were limited to two but bumped that up to 4 in the 6xx series, or something approximately like that. 17:51:15 Ah 17:52:03 do those cards have 4/5 connectors too, or can you like split DVI cables and connect several screens? 17:52:36 olsner, mine? It has 5: 2x DVI (one I and one D), 1x HDMI, 2x DP 17:53:43 Anyway it works fine now, after a couple of reboots fixing kernel parameters and such 17:54:26 so the number of supported screens really just depends on the number of connectors? 17:54:49 olsner: Not entirely, they've had >2 connectors for a while on NVidia cards without supporting >2 monitors. 17:55:11 -!- carado_ has joined. 17:55:37 (You also need enough of the per-display hardware, like clock signal generators and whatnot, to support all connectors simultaneously.) 17:55:51 so the number of supported screens really just depends on the number of connectors? <-- mine is AMD though 17:57:00 olsner: And sometimes it's not a clear number, e.g. it's something like "at most X DVI monitors and Y DisplayPort ones, except if your DP-to-DVI adapter is active instead of passive". 17:57:32 (If they don't have enough of the things that generate the TMDS signal for DVI panels.) 17:57:48 Yep that happens too 17:58:46 I think my card has one DVI-I, one DVI-D, one HDMI and one DP connector. 17:58:51 sounds complicated, I'm glad I'm happy with only two screens 17:59:38 I'm glad I don't have that "onboard Radeon + discrete NVidia card" three-monitor setup any more, now *that* was a can of worms. 18:00:43 that sounds terrbile 18:00:45 terrible* 18:01:00 I couldn't even run Xinerama on it, it just crashed all the time. 18:01:16 (I just ran old-fashioned X multihead then.) 18:01:16 fizzie, I use onboard intel + discrete nivida quadro chipset at work for builtin + two external (from the laptop dock) 18:01:36 There's onboard Intel on this too, the Haswell integrated one. 18:01:39 fizzie, doesn't work with all there unless I turn on that intel+nvidia thing in the bios 18:02:22 Also I think some kind of Optimus thing? At least Chromium chrome://gpu says "Optimus: true" and blacklists all 3D stuff. :p 18:02:32 "Drivers are unreliable for Optimus on Linux.: 131308" 18:02:59 fizzie: ugh, that bad? 18:03:09 most of the laptops I've been considering have optimus 18:03:25 Seems that the bug has Status: fixed in Sep-2012, so maybe my Chromium is just very old. 18:04:17 yeah, chrome doesn't play well with optimus on linux 18:04:43 I only use the discrete card here, though. Wouldn't I have to have the displays connected to the integrated GPU for actual Optimus to happen, even? 18:05:27 (I was under the assumption the final image always went through that even with a discrete GPU in use.) 18:05:32 It's all so confusing these days. 18:05:45 yeah, that's how it works as I understand it 18:06:14 Also the xrandr -q result quite often seems to have nothing to do with the actually existing physical connectors; in my case, I have the outputs DVI-I-0 (does not exist), DVI-I-1 (exists), HDMI-0 (exists), DP-0 and DP-1 (presumably one of them exists) and DVI-D-0. 18:06:56 And it was something equally imaginary on the Intel graphics at work, I think. 18:07:18 apparently xrandr thinks I have a single large screen 18:08:15 Old nvidia proprietary driver used to be like that. 18:08:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:08:35 Also it had different modes indicated by fake refresh rates, or something like that. 18:08:50 (Because the dimensions of the bounding box aren't necessarily unique.) 18:09:55 Well, it's still a single large "Screen" (for the X definition of "Screen") for xrandr-age multihead, but there's the different outputs listed. 18:11:23 Gah, the CPU fan on the router box is being incredibly noisy. Probably about to break. 18:13:03 fizzie: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=131308 -- looks like the "fix" is to blacklist it 18:14:20 Oh, I didn't read it all that closely. I was just assuming. 18:14:45 Admittedly it just goes "GPU thread hung up" and re-disables it if I --ignore-gpu-blacklist. 18:15:31 (Or do the chrome://flags thing.) 18:18:30 Well that is broken, while watching flash video (youtube) the FPS of glxgrears (using forced vsync and "tear free desktop") drops to like 5. Pausing the video gives me the expected 60 FPS 18:18:39 New on this kernel version 18:21:16 it's a bit scary how browsers are dependent on reliable secure gpu drivers nowadays 18:21:50 if the gpu blacklist is out of date and your driver has a bug, webgl gets a free pass to all your computer 18:22:05 heh 18:22:59 trying to sort out dependency issues with 32-bit libs after the upgrade 18:23:26 a lot like the browser itself, granted, but at least browser makers have 20 years of dealing with broken web pages 18:23:57 rather than 20 years of cheating the latest gpu benchmark and making shortcuts for the popular games, and freely assuming they only deal with code that the user has already bought and/or decided to trust 18:28:34 quite 18:29:26 didn't basically every security type person say webgl is an awful idea ages ago? 18:29:38 Well yeah it is 18:29:56 but really the problem isn't webgl in particular, the problem is that at this point every piece of code has to be written for security 18:30:01 and it... isn't 18:30:08 I'm not a security type person so I'm probably late to that party but yes 18:30:15 because nothing isn't exposed over the network nowadays 18:32:31 Also the xrandr -q result quite often seems to have nothing to do with the actually existing physical connectors; in my case, I have the outputs DVI-I-0 (does not exist), DVI-I-1 (exists), HDMI-0 (exists), DP-0 and DP-1 (presumably one of them exists) and DVI-D-0. <-- quite, I have DFP1 to DFP7 plus CRT1 18:37:10 nice 18:37:22 turn them all on and stash your porn windows on the invisible screens 18:38:17 XD 18:38:34 It seems I'm using DFP5-DFP7 18:57:49 -!- conehead has joined. 19:14:46 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:14:51 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:15:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:17:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 19:18:11 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:49:41 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:49:50 -!- baordog has joined. 19:52:12 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:52:54 How is the esoteric programming world doing? 19:54:04 explosively 19:57:37 `relcome baordog 19:57:45 ​baordog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:58:18 I remember in like 2003 getting the ability to hook up my computer to the (analog, CRT) television and it was so awesome 19:59:10 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:00:22 watching pirated 320x240 simpsons episodes over s-video 20:00:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:00:48 downloaded from KaZaA 20:00:58 truly, the future 20:01:25 some downloaded from IRC 20:01:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:01:35 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:02:55 -!- conehead has joined. 20:08:16 I need to write some code 20:08:22 irc is still like the fastest piracy i've used `-` 20:11:08 The Internet Act of 1996 passed into law by Bill Clinton says you must disconnect IMMEDIATELY from this DCC if you are affiliated with any law enforcement agency! 20:13:11 `slist 20:13:13 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 20:13:30 As almost half of that list, I say thank you 20:13:55 kmc: hahh, did they really say things like that? 20:15:23 Vorpal: that's why intel cards exist 20:15:36 coppro, hm? 20:15:38 oh right 20:15:42 yeah 20:15:49 coppro, I also use OpenGL and OpenCL though 20:16:02 what about Intel cards? 20:17:06 kmc, tripple screens I think, if it is the same conversation 20:17:36 oh 20:17:43 my last triple monitor system just had two nvidia cards 20:17:50 did the internet act create the internet 20:17:53 too much power usage 20:18:01 where is that quote from anyway kmc? 20:18:13 the internet, obviously 20:18:17 elliott: al gore joke 20:20:37 Vorpal: it's my paraphrase of the kinds of things the piracy DCC bots would say when you connect to them 20:21:18 kmc, heh 20:21:45 you have to tell me if you're a cop 20:21:53 it's in the constitution 20:22:00 Heh 20:22:29 kmc, what about under cover stuff 20:22:39 what about t 20:22:48 kmc, do they have to tell too? 20:22:58 Because that would defeat the point wouldn't it? 20:22:59 the joke is that there is no such rule at all 20:23:08 cops can freely lie about being cops (or most other things) 20:23:18 ah, makes a lot more sense 20:23:34 it's a common misconception among dumb criminals (or maybe just a trope of the existence of such a misconception) 20:23:43 I think the entrapment rules vary quite a bit by country 20:23:48 yeah I mean in the US 20:23:55 sorry 20:24:00 I wrote an application with a GUI in Haskell and now I'm way too proud of myself to try and do a bigger one 20:24:05 how's it work in other countries, actually 20:24:08 pretty sure there are some rules preventing some of that in Sweden for example yeah 20:24:15 I know that cops pose on hacker forums all the time 20:24:19 my understanding is that US cops can lie but not make fake offers 20:24:27 I'm fairly certain german cops have to admit they are cops if directly questioned 20:24:35 hi baordog, you new here? 20:24:41 Yup :) 20:24:44 I think "entrapment" in the US is defined pretty strictly and basically has to include you committing a crime that you wouldn't otherwise 20:24:46 `relcome baordog 20:24:49 like if the cops coerce you into it 20:24:49 ​baordog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:24:53 but not if they just suggest it 20:25:06 or they make it look extremly appealing 20:25:07 because anyone who would sell drugs under a mere suggestion was probably going to anyway? 20:25:13 -!- itsy has joined. 20:25:16 but there's also the thing where constitutional rights don't really apply in drug cases 20:25:17 * Bike imagines cop badgering people to buy a dirty bomb 20:25:20 or any other kind of rights 20:25:25 cop tries REALLY HARD to convince someone to sell them drugs 20:25:30 Bike: if you don't build that dirty bomb you're a total pussy 20:25:35 I know that a lot of hacker cases in the U.S don't actually end up sticking, because the evidence is gathered in such circumspect ways 20:25:37 maybe if you're a drug dealer that can be your defence 20:25:42 people have to pester you to do business with you 20:25:46 "I didn't want to be a pussy, man" 20:26:14 There's a wonderful book called "dark market" on the subject 20:26:22 elliott: basically https://twitter.com/NotANark 20:26:53 If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. 20:27:17 Bike: rotfl 20:28:34 * itsy is reading http://www.basiccomic.com 20:36:21 `addquote If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. 20:36:26 1102) If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. 20:37:29 bind them to what 20:37:52 To jail. 20:37:56 `revert 20:37:59 duh, kmc. 20:38:00 Done. 20:38:05 `addquote If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. bind them to what To jail. 20:38:10 1102) If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. bind them to what To jail. 20:38:26 If they are a police officer then you should post the picture in a database of undercover police officers. 20:38:37 Pretend to be a drug dealer but never have any or sell any to anyone. 20:38:58 187 ON AN UNDERCOVER COP 20:41:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:45:16 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Numeri&curid=8998&diff=37100&oldid=37095 this edit is really good 20:46:45 people with autocensors are the best/worst 20:47:07 do you have a ban-them-forever policy? probably should, they never seem to get better 20:47:08 there's that chrome plugin which replaces "The Cloud" with "My Butt" and it sometimes makes its way into wiki edits 20:54:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 21:13:58 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:15:59 -!- yorick has joined. 22:13:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:13:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:15:51 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:20:30 -!- ldecimuxZ has joined. 22:20:51 -!- ldecimuxZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:21:32 -!- fungot has joined. 22:21:41 fungot: You've been gone a while, how are you feeling? 22:21:42 fizzie: it's a unicode character and got... well. i find myself writing things like fnord optimization or things like that very often, so it's the same 22:22:00 I guess that counts as "fine", then. 22:22:10 no worse than usual. 22:23:53 Also, from #elsewhere, but amusing: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=58a7611ccfda88c7cbcc62b25b787d6b0fa64081&utm_source=anzwix 22:24:16 -!- Bike has joined. 22:24:31 * oerjan notes one of the mezzacotta characters seems to have eir markov chain based on the book of mormon. 22:24:40 (The parent commit being: [Revert "sna: Add XMir support"].) 22:30:03 what's xmir and why do they even care? 22:32:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(display_server_protocol) 22:32:59 looks like canonical managed to find a way to use gplv3 to be _less_ open source friendly :P 22:33:50 It's the future. Well, one of the futures. 22:34:27 i assume canonical owns ubuntu itself and so can put xmir there, but _neither_ upstream nor downstream distributions want anything to do with this. 22:34:58 * oerjan also has never quite managed to learn the difference between upstream and downstream. 22:35:13 You just look at which way the stuff flows. 22:35:25 O KAY 22:35:31 it's like homespring 22:36:16 i am guessing debian and xorg are upstream and {k,x,l}ubuntu are downstream in this case. 22:38:59 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:39:37 I was under the impression they owned kubuntu too, but apparently that's no longer true. 22:41:28 Is a CakeProphet the same thing as a kallisti? <-- i think nineinchbread also 22:41:50 That's, unfortunately, too late. Hopefully that's not a too-much-used name. 22:42:26 hey just put it in the todo list for next release 22:43:36 unsafeKallisti 23:08:47 kmc: 35° today :'( 23:08:54 :( 23:09:02 only 24 here 23:09:13 but 28 in my house for some reason 23:11:38 you should make the bot report the weather 23:11:56 fungot: How's it in the noisy room? 23:11:56 fizzie: http://www-i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/ fnord/ fnord 23:12:02 O...kay. 23:15:56 -!- madbr has joined. 23:20:05 fungot: The URL /fnord/fnord was not found on this server. 23:20:06 olsner: why not just put multiple inheritence into condition types? 23:20:21 fungot: I'll try that, thanks 23:20:22 olsner: lambda associates home page says it won't be much fun.) hmm, nearly got fnord actually, want to see 23:22:59 http://oerjan.nvg.org/fnord/fnord/fnord/ 23:23:43 what did it sayyyyyy?????????? 23:23:46 * quintopia dies of worry 23:24:21 have i made a lethal web page?!?!?!!!11ELEVEN 23:25:21 quintopia: it was (is) information about England 23:25:44 oh 23:25:47 phew 23:25:52 * quintopia comes back to life 23:26:49 todo: create the qaskell programming language 23:27:09 -!- dfdfdf has joined. 23:29:11 -!- dfdfdf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:29:33 -!- dfdfdf has joined. 23:45:17 -!- dfdfdf has quit. 2013-09-08: 00:29:43 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:54:14 -!- augur has joined. 00:56:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:56:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:03:10 kmc: http://anagramatron.tumblr.com/ 01:27:00 nice 02:35:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:48:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:51:50 `slist 02:51:52 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:19:05 why am I obsessed by cpu design :o 03:20:16 it's because you were a computer in your previous life 03:21:02 haha 03:56:20 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:56:45 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:56:45 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 03:56:45 -!- kallisti has joined. 04:05:23 does anyone here know Ada ? 04:05:38 Sgeo knows a bit, I think. 04:05:47 and if so, do you know if Long_Long_Integer'Last is uniform across implementations ? 04:06:08 Sgeo: ^ 04:25:36 Here's all I remember about ada: x and y or z is invalid, you need parens like (x and y) or z 04:26:00 Probably not that helpful hee 04:26:02 here 04:54:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:05:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:09:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:14:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:58 -!- augur has joined. 05:15:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:15:51 -!- augur has joined. 05:20:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:26:51 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:33:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 05:38:00 Sgeo: seems like a reasonable rule 05:38:26 I'm definitely in favor of languages having fewer complicated precedence rules and more "put in some damn parentheses" parse errors 05:38:38 in totally the opposite direction, I saw a proposal for using horizontal whitespace for this 05:38:45 so that a+b * c would be different from a + b*c 05:39:11 the "as" casting operator in Rust ended up between + and * in the hierarchy because people kept getting confused and modifying the compiler to move it 05:39:36 i kind of hate the whitespace thing. 05:39:51 -!- augur has joined. 05:40:36 Ada was more or less intended to be rock-solid in a easier-to-understand and harder-to-make-bugs sense, I think 05:40:41 a / b * c+d 05:40:45 I don't know if it actually succeeded 05:41:57 http://archive.adaic.com/standards/83rat/html/ratl-03-06.html 05:44:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:01:26 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:26:19 @@ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blaha /me abc 06:26:19 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blaha / 06:26:19 me abc 06:26:24 @@ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa /me abc 06:26:24 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa 06:26:24 * lambdabot abc 06:26:41 hax 06:26:46 Oh, right, it ignores the IRC line length and splits its own way. 07:01:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 07:27:50 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:29:13 it turns out that bit-banging serial protocols from Python on Linux on a 700 MHz 32-bit processor is a lot slower than from a C program with no OS on a 16 MHz 8-bit processor 07:29:19 this is not really surprising, but still a pain 07:29:38 lol 07:32:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:47:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 07:49:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:52:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:10:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:15:09 -!- lsrike has joined. 08:15:27 I have this issue with this Piet esoteric language. I have a foreach loop that upon each iteration increments the output with a value. I want this value to be an input rather than a variable. Here is my code so far: http://i.imgur.com/dfBkOFD.png 08:18:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:23:30 lsrike, well, you need to make it an input rather than a variable, then 08:23:58 Taneb: how? 08:24:45 To input a number, it's 4 hue steps and 2 shades darker 08:33:10 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:34:20 -!- augur has joined. 08:38:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 08:38:44 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:38:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 08:41:38 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:41:41 -!- augur has joined. 10:21:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:21:38 -!- augur has joined. 10:27:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:48:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:49:10 -!- augur has joined. 10:53:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:02:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:03:15 -!- lsrike has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:07:21 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:10:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:10:51 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 11:11:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:11:42 -!- augur has joined. 11:14:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:14:32 ``Fort Pannerden (a military fort built in 1869) was evicted on November 8, 2006, by a massive police operation which used military machinery and cost one million euros. The squatters then re-squatted the fort on November 26'' 11:14:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `Fort: not found 11:28:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:36:20 -!- yorick has joined. 12:06:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:37:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:26:20 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:27:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:49:32 -!- Solain has joined. 13:49:43 hello 13:50:31 -!- Solain has quit (Client Quit). 13:52:30 welp 13:56:54 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:07:35 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:23:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:45:32 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 14:56:48 \o/ 14:57:07 How do I invoke the wrath of myndzi 14:57:10 ^celebrate 14:57:10 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 14:57:11 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ ¦ c.c.c | 14:57:11 /< c.c >\ /| | | /< c.c /| | /| |´¸¨ c.c /`\ 14:57:12 /'¯|_) /'\ 14:57:12 (_| (_| |_) 14:57:15 \o| 15:06:36 myndzi doesn't seem very wrathful 15:10:23 \o| 15:10:24 | 15:10:24 >\ 15:10:31 c.c 15:10:31 c.c.c 15:10:31 c.c 15:10:48 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Tanneb. 15:10:52 \o| 15:10:52 | 15:10:52 /| 15:11:03 \m/ \m/ 15:11:14 -!- Tanneb has changed nick to Taneb. 15:41:16 \m/ doesn't work any more 15:41:35 \o| 15:41:35 | 15:41:35 /'\ 15:41:39 then what was that up there 15:46:05 \m/ \m/ 15:46:07 \m/ \m/ 15:46:08 `\o/´ 15:46:08 | 15:46:08 (_|¯'¯|_) 15:53:51 -!- conehead has joined. 16:41:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:53:08 -!- Yonkie has joined. 17:10:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:15:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:16:06 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:37:36 myndzi is the wrathfuleast 17:40:42 what the hell is c.c 17:40:42 c.c.c 17:40:42 c.c 17:41:12 Multiocular c 17:41:24 obviously 17:47:27 disco ball 17:53:17 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:57:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:06:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:17:39 `slist roxy 18:17:42 slist roxy: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 18:51:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:51:16 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:51:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 18:52:01 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:29:36 multiocular c.c! 19:29:37 c.c.c 19:29:37 c.c 19:30:16 c.c is a CMU-ism I think; it's like eyes looking away 19:30:21 verbal equivalent might be "uh...." 19:30:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:30:35 ɔ.ɔ 19:31:13 something like "don't worry if you get a call about me from the FBI tomorrow" "c.c" 19:31:42 and multiocular O is the most rare and exotic glyph variant of Cyrillic letter O; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiocular_O 19:33:23 do you mean to say "Cyrillic letter О" 19:38:58 Сyrillic 19:40:02 c.c.c.p 19:40:03 c.c.c 19:40:03 c.c 19:40:17 o.o 19:40:41 c.c 19:40:56 c.c.c 19:40:56 c.c 19:41:30 apparently you need a 6 letter nick 19:41:33 shachaf: I copy-pasted from Wikipedia 19:41:39 but probably yes 19:41:45 с.с 19:41:48 Оh. 19:42:20 BREAKING NEWS: incorrect information detected on Wikipedia 19:46:26 СОЯЯЕСТ ІТ ИОШ 19:48:31 haha 19:52:19 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:13:46 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:14:39 -!- Effilry has joined. 20:15:01 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 20:21:26 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 267 seconds). 20:37:42 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:44:21 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:45:08 -!- nortti has joined. 20:49:04 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:50:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:51:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:04:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:07:23 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:27:09 @@ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa /me abc 21:27:09 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa 21:27:09 * lambdabot abc 21:27:13 wtf 21:27:52 oerjan: I suggest not thinking about it. that's what I decided. 21:28:26 @@ blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa /part I suggest you fix it instead. 21:28:26 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahaaa 21:28:26 /part I suggest you fix it instead. 21:28:32 ok :P 21:28:36 oerjan: No, it's a special case in the code for /me. 21:28:51 O_O 21:29:20 oh it would need an #esoteric anyway, i guess. 21:29:54 @@ what is this new / @ command? 21:29:54 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "" 21:29:56 elliott: ok i think i concur with your suggestion. 21:30:07 Koen_: it is not new. 21:30:22 @@ what is this previously unknowned by me / command? 21:30:22 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "" 21:30:24 @help @ 21:30:24 @@ [args]. 21:30:24 @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used. 21:30:24 The commands are right associative. 21:30:24 For example: @@ @pl @undo code 21:30:24 is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code)) 21:32:20 ?help ? 21:32:20 ?? [args]. 21:32:21 ?? executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used. 21:32:21 The commands are right associative. 21:32:21 For example: ?? ?pl ?undo code 21:32:21 is the same as: ?? (?pl (?undo code)) 21:32:26 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:32:32 @? what if i just want to be contrary? 21:32:32 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "" 21:32:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:35:57 elliott: would you get angry with me if i told Solain to be more patient before quitting? 21:36:05 * @told 21:36:22 -!- aloril has joined. 21:36:35 `? Solain 21:36:37 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 21:36:58 `? hm what is this 21:36:59 hm what is this? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:37:00 | 21:37:00 o/`¯º 21:37:05 ok then 21:37:12 `run cat wisdom/Solain 21:37:14 cat: wisdom/Solain: No such file or directory 21:37:16 `run cat wisdom/solain 21:37:18 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 21:37:42 You should fix cat up so it behaves like ? when reading a file from wisdom/ 21:37:56 olsner: i was just wondering if someone had changed something to use that picture by default, since it has happened before. 21:38:07 I was also wondering the same thing 21:38:42 `? / 21:38:45 cat: /: Is a directory 21:38:49 bah 21:39:05 oh of course it's ls which is specialized. 21:41:19 @tell Solain Most people aren't watching the irc channels all the time, so quitting after just a minute because no one responded is a bit short. :) 21:41:19 Consider it noted. 21:41:47 wait, i just realized that also applies to elliott answering my question. oh well. 21:41:50 oerjan: Now I've gotten angry with you. 21:42:25 shachaf: it's ok you don't have ops 21:42:42 only in channels that matter hth 21:45:28 oerjan: you really don't need elliott's approval to talk to people 21:46:22 ooh 21:48:06 or maybe you do and we both get banned for subvertive behaviour 21:48:21 oerjan: alt. you can fix that 21:50:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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That's how split works. You can't die because of a split. =/ 22:25:39 Unless you count being on the side where Services are as "being on the living side" 22:26:20 I've never been on the dead side so I'm really not sure what happens there 22:26:29 Roujo: I'm pretty sure the other half was marked as having quitted 22:26:55 Koen_: Yeah, and from their side you're the one who quit =P 22:26:55 Roujo: so i'm gonna assume you're just jalous and making stuff up 22:28:35 Koen_: But that's not how netsplits woooork >_> 22:30:01 Roujo: what proof do you have? 22:30:22 olsner just admitted he didn't have any 22:31:46 I was on the other side, once 22:31:49 Everyone quit 22:31:53 It was very odd 22:31:56 Very, very odd 22:32:47 i'm pretty sure only my irssi session exists and the rest of the universe is an illusion 22:34:22 oerjan: We're just irssi scripts. Well, I am, anyway 22:37:11 some of us aren't even trying to hide it \o/ 22:37:11 | 22:37:12 >\ 22:39:22 \o/ \o/ have to trest with multiple \o/s 22:41:41 YOU FAIL 22:42:39 ^celebrate DO IT LIKE THIS 22:42:39 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 22:42:39 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 22:42:40 |\ c.c |\ /< | | |\ c.c |\ | /| | |\ c.c /< 22:42:40 /´\ (_|¯'\ 22:42:40 (_| |_) |_) 22:48:44 sooooooo what am I looking at? 22:50:22 three multiocular c.c and two \m/ \m/ and some \o| through |o/ and some other people 22:50:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:50:37 c.c.c `\o/´ | | 22:50:37 c.c | >\ /'\ 22:50:53 /´\ 22:50:53 (_| |_) 22:51:21 multiocular c.c OKAY 22:51:28 c.c.c 22:51:28 c.c 22:51:40 i didn't know myndzi's line length was that big 22:52:08 -!- myanon has joined. 22:52:15 I did get a bit worried when it didn't respond for 11 seconds 22:52:35 hello? 22:52:58 Hello! 22:53:09 i was surprised when it _did_ respond, as i thought you'd gone past the allowed line length. 22:53:30 `relcome myanon 22:53:33 ​myanon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:56:33 I was wondering about an oddity when going to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Turing_complete ... The list doesn't include Bitwise Cyclic Tag, but click (next 200) at bottom of page, then (previous 200), and there it is! Pretty strange. 22:57:25 yes category pages are obscure 22:58:02 myanon: hm i'm not seeing what you are seeing, it's in the right spot for me. 22:58:15 oh wait 22:58:21 misread your instructions 22:59:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:38 There's an allowed line lenght? 22:59:58 -!- augur has joined. 23:00:03 no, all line lengths are forbidden! 23:00:05 Roujo: i thought there was some limit. but maybe i remember wrong. 23:00:08 WELL CRAP 23:00:17 myanon: anyway, i didn't manage to see your problem. 23:00:27 I guess I'll just c.c until the cows go home, then. 23:00:27 c.c.c 23:00:27 c.c 23:02:27 myanon: ok i see that the category was added only four days ago. i suspect there was something in cache or database that hadn't been updated properly, and it was somehow recalculated when you went back to it. 23:02:43 so from now it should work properly. 23:02:58 (added to the BCT article, that is.) 23:04:06 i understand this can sometimes happen with category pages. 23:04:24 Categories are Weird 23:04:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:06:28 "sometimes" 23:06:40 oerjan ... I just tried it again using both Chrome and IE ... clicking the Turing Complete category link (or using the one I just posted) gives repeatable behavior ... Bitwise Cyclic Tag doesn't appear on the opening page (should be between BiTrax and Blind), then it mysteriously shows up by clicking Next then Previous 200. 23:06:52 I've got that problem for basically any language that's been added to a category in the past several months 23:07:44 (except if the category was added when the page was created rather than in a later edit) 23:08:50 ok. i think this is elliott's problem :P 23:09:28 myanon: what happens if you reload explicitly? 23:09:31 Isn't it always? 23:09:39 Roujo: of course 23:10:29 oerjan ... same thing if I explicitly hit Reload in the browser -- it's missing until I do the Next/Previous thing. 23:11:05 Shift-Reload? (or is it Ctrl- i can never remember the difference, or if there even is one.) 23:11:17 let me try ... 23:12:29 it would make sense for plain Reload not to work if the category pages don't keep track of when their content changes properly. 23:13:20 because plain Reload (as well as restarting the browser i think) only reloads if the server tells the browser that the page has changed since the browser visited it. 23:13:52 also, if this is the case then wiping your browser cache should also work. 23:15:54 oerjan ... with Chrome, none of these have an effect: F5, Shift-F5, Ctrl-F5 (these last two "overide the cache", according to the Chrome website) 23:17:47 weird. i'm using IE 10 btw. 23:18:10 i can never remember shift or ctrl, usually try both 23:18:15 i think only one works in firefox 23:18:25 in chrome, i have dev tools set to disable cache 23:18:29 so i can just open dev tools and refresh 23:18:53 i _do_ have a vague feeling they do the same thing in IE. 23:19:22 oerjan ... I've tried the latest Chrome and IE10 ... same behavior -- are you not getting this behavior at all? 23:19:27 nope 23:20:14 i've seen Bitwise Cyclic Tag in the right spot every time - but i forgot to look before doing Next 200 the first time, since i misread your instruction. 23:21:11 oh wait! 23:22:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:22:21 myanon: i see it when i log out from my account first! 23:22:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:22:45 oerjan: btw you were probably right about google suggestions; I realized afterwards I was talking about google results 23:23:09 Koen_: OK MAYBE I DON'T HAVE TO KILL YOU ALL ANYWAY THEN 23:23:13 NOW it works ... I hadn't bothered to log in, and when I did, the mysterious behavior goes away. It reappears if I log out! 23:23:25 -!- augur has joined. 23:23:47 ok, new explanation: elliott has set up caching for non-logged in pages. 23:23:48 oerjan: yeah hum I'm afraid you still have to since you didn't call my bluff the first time 23:24:15 oerjan: I have, but it should expire properly? 23:24:32 elliott: but maybe not within 4 days? 23:24:36 I intend, with notice, to call every bluff ever made. 23:24:41 Koen_: DARN 23:25:05 although Koen_ says he has that problem for older pages than that 23:25:10 oerjan: it should expire immediately-ish when it should expire 23:25:44 wenn I don't remember if there's a distinction between being logged in or not, and I haven't checked for at least six months 23:25:50 well 23:26:40 * oerjan notes that the new urls for the Rflct links aren't loading properly either, but at least the host supposedly exists. 23:27:03 oerjan: the {{deadlink}} didn't get removed! 23:27:06 they're just updated dead links. 23:27:11 But isn't it very strange that this is apparently only happening with Bitwise Cyclic Tag (which happens to be a page that I created)??? 23:28:04 ooh, you are r.e.s.? 23:28:12 yup 23:28:18 elliott: i know. i hope they'll load occasionally. :) 23:28:30 cool! I was wondering where you went, years ago 23:29:22 I stop by here occasionally, but haven't really participated for quite a while. 23:29:25 myanon: it's not strange because it was the last page to have a category updated. 23:29:43 oerjan ... ahhh, I see 23:30:39 elliott: perhaps the expiry is calculated wrong for category pages? 23:30:51 like, it only includes the actual category text, or something. 23:31:24 i suppose we could test by editing that. 23:32:41 myanon: try reloading now. 23:33:51 Nice ... now it works whether logged in or out ... thanks for all your trouble! 23:34:12 ok but elliott still needs to fix the underlying problem :P 23:37:23 * oerjan wonders if this caching bug would also affect template inclusions. 23:44:03 Time for me to go ... everyone have a good day, and thanks for doing whatever you can about the "bug". 23:45:05 -!- myanon has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:52:03 -!- CADD has joined. 23:57:10 -!- mtve has joined. 2013-09-09: 00:10:32 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 00:22:49 cryptography fans might find this interesting http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1517 00:24:17 "What was long a plausible conjecture—that the NSA covertly influences cryptographic standards to give itself backdoors, and that otherwise-inexplicable vulnerabilities in deployed cryptosystems are sometimes there because the NSA wanted them there—now looks close to an established fact." 00:24:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:26:39 oerjan, ugh why does he have to give probabilities like that 00:27:07 -!- augur has joined. 00:27:08 who do you think you're fooling, you're clearly just using 99% as a convenient rhetorical default 00:27:11 I DON'T KNOW 00:28:03 -!- douglass has joined. 00:29:44 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:35:03 I'm about to say something very stupid 00:35:41 I had to implement multiplication for numbers-as-strings-of-digits quite recently and I've read a few articles about multiplications algorithms 00:36:10 and it may have been because I was missing a lot of sleep but at several points I was under the impression that their explanations about complexity were wrong 00:36:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 00:36:42 for instance they were calculating the complexity in function of the number of digits of a number n 00:37:02 and sometimes ended with a conclusion "therefore this algorithm is O(n^3)" 00:37:23 well that's a stupid typo, really. 00:37:36 I figured as much but it happened several times 00:37:40 and just now I read this: 00:38:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:39:06 okay wait a minute my copy pasting has magically replaced spaces with newlines 00:39:21 i commend you for catching it before you actually pasted. 00:40:26 Factoring is hard. Despite centuries of effort by some of the world's smartest mathematicians and computer scientists, the fastest methods for factoring a number N take time exponential in the number of bits of N. 00:40:35 -!- augur has joined. 00:40:42 so the important part is "exponential in the number of bits" 00:41:07 yes. 00:41:17 am I missing something or is he saying it's exponential in a logarithm, which is called being linear in my town? 00:42:03 ohhhh or is that because the logarithm is not the same base as the exponential 00:42:17 i don't think it's bad to say "exponential in the number of bits" even if that does mean linear 00:42:17 it's exponential with respect to the size of the input, which is measured in bits, I think 00:42:22 like "100 digit input" vs "200 digit input" 00:42:28 you're missing something: the number of bits of the input is the standard x which you measure complexity as a function of. 00:42:28 the 200 digit input is twice the size, not 10^100 the size 00:42:44 Koen_: different bases would only cause a constant multiplicative factor, which is nothing anybody cares about in complexity :p 00:43:01 yeah hum 00:43:07 so the first thing was only a typo? 00:43:13 which first thing 00:43:17 which fir.. 00:43:23 you're welcome oerjan 00:43:30 `welcome oerjan 00:43:32 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:43:36 `thanks shachaf 00:43:37 Thanks, shachaf. Thachaf. 00:43:47 Koen_: for instance they were calculating the complexity in function of the number of digits of a number n 00:43:48 [02:37] Koen_: and sometimes ended with a conclusion "therefore this algorithm is O(n^3)" 00:43:51 that first thing 00:44:16 what's wrong with that? 00:44:23 schoolboy multiplication is n³ i think 00:44:31 Koen_: the typo is using the same variable n for both the number and what you're measuring complexity as a function of (which should be the _size_ of the number, not the number.) 00:44:39 yes 00:44:43 oh 00:44:45 Bike: it's wrong because it not the same n in the two lines 00:44:48 yeah that'd be some kind of typo 00:44:50 *it's 00:44:55 okay so everything is working right in the world and I was just imagining things 00:45:01 thank you 00:45:04 ^celebrate 00:45:04 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 00:45:05 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 00:45:05 |\ c.c >\ /'\| | |\ c.c >\ | /^\|/| c.c >\ 00:45:05 /´¯|_) /´\ 00:45:06 (_| (_| |_) 00:46:21 since when does celebrate contain c.c 00:46:22 c.c.c 00:46:22 c.c 00:46:42 don't deny the seraphim their celebration! 00:47:37 > text . unwords . replicate 20 $ " c.c " 00:47:37 c.c.c 00:47:38 c.c 00:47:38 shachaf: i updated it to include new myndzi features 00:47:38 c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.... 00:47:44 > text . unwords . replicate 5 $ " c.c " 00:47:44 c.c.c 00:47:45 c.c 00:47:45 c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c 00:47:45 c.c.c c.c.c c.c.c c.c.c c.c.c 00:47:45 c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c 00:48:03 myndzi: ꙮ.ꙮ 00:48:14 ꙮ.ꙮ 00:48:17 ꙮ.ꙮ.ꙮ 00:48:18 ꙮ.ꙮ 00:48:25 useless bot 00:48:28 have to do everything myself 00:48:37 what did i invent computers for anyway 00:49:05 you didn't, do you think you're al gore or something? 00:49:32 `quote pota 00:49:34 No output. 00:49:39 shocking. 00:49:48 no, i'm the giant on whose shoulders al gore stoode 00:49:50 s/.$// 00:49:56 `? potato 00:49:59 potato? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:49:59 | 00:50:00 º¯`\o 00:50:12 `? potatoe 00:50:14 potatoe? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:50:23 | 00:50:24 o/`¯º 00:51:10 myndzi is so popular today 00:52:09 also, do you like the underscore? it's the new style 00:52:12 c.c 00:52:13 c.c.c 00:52:13 c.c 00:52:20 why not grace_notes 00:52:21 c·c·c 00:52:26 c°c 00:52:28 sigh 00:52:32 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (Changing host). 00:52:32 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 00:52:48 Bike: plz fix the weather thx 00:52:55 got identified, back 00:53:03 the weather's fine 00:53:06 hope I didn't miss anything 00:53:07 Gracenotes_: why not grace_notes 00:53:26 @google palo alto weather 00:53:27 No Result Found. 00:53:31 someone is probably registering it as we speak 00:53:36 29° right now :'( 00:53:36 no weather found 00:53:40 it's an arms race 00:53:48 shachaf: it's going to be a high of 90F pretty much all week 00:53:56 @google 90f in c 00:53:57 32.2222222 degrees Celsius 00:53:57 http://www.myscienceproject.org/beer.html 00:53:57 Title: How to Keep Beer Cold 00:53:59 @google 90f in real degrees 00:54:00 to use regional measurements 00:54:00 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070712040823AABeQ2f 00:54:00 Title: What is 90 degrees fahrenheit in celcius? - Yahoo! Answers 00:54:17 my ol' buddy Yahoo! Answers knows what's up 00:54:45 `sanetemp 90 00:54:46 something like 25? 00:54:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found 00:54:53 !sanetemp 90 00:54:56 32.2 00:55:00 wow go me. 00:55:04 wouldn't that be google that knows what's up 00:55:45 p. sure i'm not allowed to talk about that in public, Gracenotes_ 00:56:52 imo http://www.theonion.com/articles/ford-develops-new-suv-that-runs-purely-on-gasoline,33568/ 00:57:07 @google 30C in real degrees 00:57:09 http://calculator-converter.com/converter_c_to_f_celsius_to_fahrenheit_calculator.php 00:57:09 Title: C to F Convert Celsius to Fahrenheit and Fahrenheit to Celsius degrees Conver... 00:57:30 `units 00:57:36 just gasoline? doesn't even need oxygen? 00:57:55 p. extraordinary 00:57:58 it's amazing in that way 00:58:01 2527 units, 72 prefixes, 56 nonlinear units \ \ You have: 00:58:57 `run units '90 degF' degC 00:58:59 ​* 50 \ / 0.02 00:59:06 hm 01:00:17 @google 300 kelvin in real degrees 01:00:18 http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/temperature/kelvin-to-fahrenheit.htm 01:00:18 Title: Kelvin to Fahrenheit (�F) degrees converter 01:00:32 just skip to reamur 01:00:35 ah, well, enough of this 01:05:48 it was pretty bad today, though 01:06:01 my chocolate that was just sitting on my desk, not in the sun, melted 01:06:20 silly chocolate 01:06:23 my hands got very chocolatey as I was figuring it out 01:06:24 the desk isn't for sitting 01:06:25 try the chair 01:06:26 ate them anyway 01:08:13 I should get a fan 01:08:53 aren't we all fans of Gracenotes_ 01:09:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:10:50 apparently the fundamental way you talk to the GPIO pins on the Raspberry Pi is that you mmap() /dev/mem and just start poking shit 01:11:05 as far as continuing the educational legacy of 80s microcomputers, I approve 01:12:51 for a while, you could tell iOS to map arbitrary regions of memory to a device 01:12:56 that's how we did a lot of sneaky stuff 01:13:07 /dev/fucktheworld 01:13:15 nice 01:13:47 it was actually how we circumvented their hardware encryption, which stumped us for months 01:14:30 but anyway, it wasn't the standard endorsed way to do things in iOS, just a feature apple forgot to remove in their kernel builds for a while, until they realized what we were doing with it 01:15:11 I mean, this is more-or-less what PCI and PCIe is, yeah 01:15:21 peeking and poking 01:15:29 * copumpkin pokes Gracenotes_ 01:15:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:49 * Gracenotes_ giggles 01:16:06 copumpkin: say, are you going to ICFP, by any chance? 01:16:07 copumpkin: why don't you come poke him face to face!! 01:16:13 -!- augur has joined. 01:16:15 Gracenotes_: yup 01:16:24 * shachaf isn't. :-( 01:16:27 woo. I plan on attending the Haskell bits. 01:16:29 I need to register still 01:16:41 shachaf: :( 01:16:51 Gracenotes_: how about the main event? that's what I'll be at 01:16:53 copumpkin: Maybe next year! 01:17:02 Or maybe not. 01:17:06 won't it be somewhere exotic next year? 01:17:08 You'd better come visit to be on the safe side. 01:17:10 it's almost never in the US! 01:17:14 Oh, hmm, that's true. 01:17:23 copumpkin: I might sneak in the first day for the main event 01:17:23 Outside the US is a lot more trouble. 01:18:21 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:18:29 yup 01:18:53 the first day is dependent types, both keynote and session, as well as things like data parallelism and fun/pearls. 01:19:00 then I have a flight in the evening 01:19:11 before that, there are 3 days of Haskell things 01:20:01 so then I will be missing SPJ's talk about the work he's done with Computing at School, but hopefully that will be recorded 01:20:27 hm, this underscore is too heavy 01:20:30 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 01:20:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:27:19 yeah it is 01:32:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:48:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:55:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:57:25 Sgeo: around? 01:57:44 Hi 01:58:39 What's up? 01:59:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:02:24 -!- augur has joined. 02:02:35 constant? 02:03:34 Sgeo: /whois is thataway 02:03:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:03:40 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:03:47 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:04:39 What am I missing here? 02:05:19 the account 02:05:45 as well as the cloak. 02:07:08 So constant is variable is a FreeBSD person. Why does that warrant pinging me? 02:07:55 Also may be using, or pretending to be using, root 02:08:12 I still don't see how I got caught up in this 02:08:40 well i don't know about that, but e _is_ a regular. 02:09:11 oerjan: I think Sgeo is asking why you mentioned /whois. 02:09:36 I didn't mean to accidently imply that e isn't a regular, I just want to know why e pinged me 02:09:42 ok, i interpreted "constant?" as Sgeo not knowing who e was. 02:09:51 Imagine: shachaf: around? Hi What's up? [...] oerjan? 02:10:17 UNIMAGINABLE 02:11:18 i note constant hasn't spoken since the line, maybe e's lost connection somewhere. 02:12:19 now I'm back 02:12:21 Sgeo: do you know Ada ? 02:12:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:12:51 I know one thing about Ada, which I mentioned last time Ada was mentioned: a and b or c is invalid, you need parentheses 02:13:11 Sgeo: ah, okay 02:13:35 does anyone else know Ada? 02:13:47 There may be an Ada IRC channel 02:13:52 Sgeo: There is. 02:13:54 You were there. 02:14:51 I wasn't expecting that 02:14:53 thanks 02:15:05 yw 02:21:50 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:22:50 -!- augur has joined. 02:30:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:32:35 elliott: what's that thing you do when you delete spam that makes it not show up in recent changes any longer :( 02:32:49 apparently clicking rollback wasn't it. 02:34:36 that elliott doesn't look online 02:34:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:34:47 "Hide anonymous useres" 02:35:11 Gracenotes: i'm talking about hiding it from _others_ unless they show bots. 02:35:16 elliott's asleep fyi 02:35:21 iirc 02:36:38 -!- shachaf has left. 02:37:19 oerjan: to change user statuses, there is Special:UserRights 02:38:38 What are your opinions of Ellsberg paradox? 02:38:50 Gracenotes: i do not think we are talking about the same feature. 02:39:41 ais523 used to do this thing whenever there was major spamming going on. 02:41:41 anyway, you can try marking that user as a bot, if that is what you wanted 02:41:42 Gracenotes: i don't have access to Special:UserRights anyway, and i'm pretty sure ais523 doesn't have more rights than me. 02:41:49 hm 02:42:05 oh maybe that's what he did. 02:42:33 he does have extra rights: check users (accept IP info), bureaucrat 02:43:17 with the default configuration, bureaucrats are able to change rights such as admin status. In other configs, admins can change statuses like the ability to rollback. 02:43:18 did he have it back then? 02:43:46 -!- douglass has joined. 02:45:15 started February 18, 2012. 02:45:45 My own conclusion (hopefully I did it correctly) is that if no probability can be assigned to the number of black and yellow balls (and that it isn't any kind of deception or any other psychological factors of the people who put the balls in there), then either AD or BC should be selected. 02:46:00 i think he got it when elliott took over the wiki, but what i'm talking about he did before that, when spam was getting out of hand 02:47:10 I may have made a mistake though. 02:47:21 zzo38: AD makes sense to me. 02:48:44 oerjan: he's deleted over 4000 spam pages 02:49:06 deletion is not what i'm talking about here 02:49:49 i'm talking about reverting spam edits to an already existing page, without it showing up in the default recent changes. 02:49:50 Gracenotes: What is your reasoning? 02:50:36 well, they are the ones with definite probabilities 02:50:52 I suppose I'd be thinking about it adversarially 02:51:11 Yes, but that isn't a full reasoning. 02:52:18 Between A and B, A has probability 33%, B as 0-66%. rounding a bit. 02:52:27 C has 33-100%. D has 66%. 02:55:01 My strategy is maximizing the minimum. There's just not enough information to make an optimality argument. 02:55:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:56:46 In most real world situations involving missing information, there are no numbers, either for the probabilities or the amount of uncertainty. 02:57:14 I am also maximizing the minimum. 02:59:35 Well, that is my view. What complications are introduced by that? 03:06:13 I am maximizing the minimum expected gain according to probabilities. 03:06:54 The thing you have failed to consider is that you should consider both gambles together using whatever same amount of black and yellow balls there are; the amount is the same for both gambles. 03:09:09 oh, both gambles occur together? I see. 03:09:11 oops 03:10:10 I did make these assumptions, that the number of the balls is the same each time, and that the ball picked is replaced before picking again, as well as that you must select both gambles before the first ball is picked. 03:10:45 yes, so 0%-66% scales with 100%-33% respectively. 03:11:37 What I have not yet considered is if you want to instead maximize the probability of winning at least $100. 03:12:00 "the amount is the same for both gambles" is a pretty big assumption 03:12:20 not big as in unreasonable, but more important, I expect 03:12:41 for the analysis 03:18:20 The Wikipedia article also makes that assumption (although I make these assumptions even regardless of Wikipedia). 03:21:03 I would probably plot the probabilities of winning $0, $100, and $200 for all four combinations as blacks vary from 0 to 60 03:22:05 if I were less lazy. 03:22:13 Yes, I would do the same 03:22:23 (if I were less lazy) 03:23:32 then make my decision based on either assuming a uniform distribution or an adversarial distribution (I would probably go for the latter) 03:24:32 What is an "adversarial distribution"? 03:38:34 the number of black balls an adversary would put when they know your strategy and are trying to minimize your gains. 03:39:52 distribution refers to the distribution of black/yellow balls 03:42:03 Yes, OK. 03:42:24 And yes it is also what I was considering, but not because there actually is such an adversary; it is because such thing is unknown. 03:42:30 You can do fun things like have a strategy like 'flip a fair coin to decide between AD and BC', in which case your adversary's calculation would get more complicated, but still possible. 03:42:55 In crypto, people have fun strategies like 'flip 256 random coins' 03:43:09 Yes, things like that too, I suppose, can be. 03:44:14 hm. I'm off to get dinner. sadly, I might buy it from walgreens, but it'll be okay. 03:49:17 what will it be 03:51:58 In one book I read about Newcomb's paradox, my own strategy as soon as I read it was toss a coin. However, later in a book by Gardner, they said it is empty if you select at random. 04:08:47 zzo38: so, how about now? one-box or two-box? 04:11:53 quintopia: It depends. "The Predictor can be presented as a psychic, as a superintelligent alien, as a deity, as a brain-scanning computer, etc." So it depends on these things and on other details not specified here. 04:12:02 As well as about how much money I need. 04:12:26 And on things that happen between the prediction and my actual selection. 04:12:32 There are too many factors to consider. 04:14:09 zzo38: assume that you want to maximize your profit and that the predictor has shown 99% accuracy in all demonstrations to date 04:15:41 OK, but still, what kind of predictor? Still, I wouldn't really know until I actually got the chance to pick, although I can try to guess. 04:19:42 I would also want to know why I am being given these choices (even if they lie to me when telling the reason, it doesn't matter) 04:19:56 zzo38: guess what you would pick if all you knew was what i just told you. you don't know if the predictor is psychic or just very well-informed, but you do know he is right 99% so far. 04:20:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:20:40 and you are being given these choices as an alternative to humanity being destroyed 04:20:48 if you don't pick, we all must die 04:21:02 In that case, I don't care. 04:21:30 why not? 04:22:19 -!- tertu has joined. 04:22:45 I find it difficult to answer, but I don't care, and probably won't pick any (although other people can pick one if they want to) 04:23:12 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 04:26:20 Humanity is only a very minor part of the universe, and I am even a more minor thing in the universe. 04:28:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:28:22 Also, it isn't necessarily a bad thing (although not being destroyed is also not necessarily a bad thing) 04:28:55 So in other words, there still isn't enough information!!! 04:32:03 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:33:41 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:36:36 Do you know of some other paradoxes (whether or not they are mentioned in Wikipedia)? 04:39:53 newcomb isn't really a paradox, just a problem 04:40:06 but there's bell's paradox 04:40:09 and 04:43:14 http://sprachlogik.blogspot.com/2011/02/liar-paradox-of-material-implication.html 04:44:00 -!- tertu3 has joined. 04:45:55 http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=1371 the engineer paradox, not mentioned in wikipedia to my knowledge 04:47:01 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:47:13 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:47:28 -!- tertu3 has joined. 04:47:45 http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2148 also "the paradox of the court" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_the_Court 04:47:51 going back, I do see that the interesting bit about the Ellsberg paradox is that some ways of knowing what you don't know help you more than others. 04:49:17 an interesting bit 04:50:36 zzo38: do you know the curry paradox? 04:51:27 how it's both sweet and savory? 04:53:52 quintopia: I can see now, I saw it before but forgot 04:54:41 if this sentence is true, then you'll forget again. 04:55:15 I can see that it doesn't work due to nontermination, I think 05:02:13 http://fuckyeahx11.tumblr.com/ 05:03:14 jesus christ 05:03:35 how many levels of irony are involved here help 05:05:12 ε₀ 05:05:23 tumblr wants me to "Never miss a post!" 05:05:30 or am i bad for answering a "how many" question with an ordinal 05:05:47 no ur good 05:06:09 what's epsilon zero again? the fixed point of x -> \omega ^ x? 05:07:11 oh wow i actually got that mostly right. 05:09:14 > fix ((sqrt 2) ^) 05:09:15 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 05:09:15 arising from a use of `M777596952.sho... 05:09:40 is it saying it can't show undefined 05:10:38 kmc: is it intentional that the background, like, flashes when you scroll? 05:11:17 ...lol, it does. 05:11:21 not enough xeyes tbh 05:12:21 hm, especially not here. http://fuckyeahx11.tumblr.com/image/2385309201 05:13:13 the superior computer program. 05:14:15 -!- tertu has joined. 05:16:38 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:02 :t sqrt 05:19:03 Floating a => a -> a 05:19:06 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:07 :t (^) 05:19:08 (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a 05:19:40 i can't be bothered to remember all of haskell's numeric crap 05:19:43 don't you know, you can't be Floating and Integral at the same time. it's totally impossible 05:19:43 :t (**) 05:19:44 Floating a => a -> a -> a 05:19:47 :t (^^) 05:19:48 (Fractional a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a 05:19:59 also it won't work anyway obviously. 05:20:02 -!- carado_ has joined. 05:20:05 > fix ((sqrt 2) **) 05:20:12 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 05:20:14 even though 2 is a better answer!! it's terrible 05:20:30 well, it finds the least fixpoint of definedness. 05:20:42 thar you go. job done. raises for all. 05:21:11 -!- hogeyui has joined. 05:21:15 yeah, yeah. 05:21:40 i just want the fun answer, man. :( 05:22:27 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:25:17 risky business being around engineers tho 05:25:26 what? 05:26:10 no levity is safe 05:27:08 oh no 05:27:35 -!- ter2 has joined. 05:30:26 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:31:23 When people are trying to solve my Pokemon card puzzles I find that often people try many solutions that don't work (often believing they do work; sometimes the mistake is due to ignoring some important information). 05:31:45 available online? 05:32:11 Yes they are available online 05:32:37 would you be able to link them? 05:33:17 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/puzzle.* Replace the * with a number 1 to 5 (more might be added later) 05:33:33 For a glossary, see the file "terminology.txt" in the same directory. 05:33:59 (They are all plain text; no HTML or Unicode is used) 05:35:51 Do you like this? 05:41:01 It has been a while since I've played, this or another CCG, so I don't have enough intuition for it, but I do like the idea of it. Do people make these for e.g. Magic? (I mean, that's Turing complete via tokens.) 05:41:18 I can see how some of the listed mechanics can interact. 05:41:46 Yes people do make them for Magic much more, or at least they used to; I don't know how common it is more recently. 05:42:05 (and 'white to checkmate' or 'black to live' is of course the older variant) 05:44:24 Older variant of what? Chess? 05:45:03 Chess, Go, etc. 05:45:57 Puzzles using game mechanics. (One video game I like, DROD, is pretty much exclusively composed of this.) 05:50:32 There is also tsume shogi and other puzzles involving game mechanics I suppose too 05:53:30 And then there can be puzzle games somewhat based on other games 05:54:00 Gracenotes: Do you know anything about the rules of Pokemon card? If you have some questions, I can answer them. 05:54:08 (The glossary doesn't contain the rules for the game.) 05:56:16 I think when I was 10 -.- 05:56:52 at least partly, as every time I look at them they are deeper than I remember. probably more 'collectible' than 'card game', at the time. 05:58:33 Can you be specific? 06:01:36 I don't think I have any specific recollections, nor questions. I might not try my hand at solving your puzzles, but I quite like the format of them, which I had no clue about previously. 06:02:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:03:31 I like these format too; is there anything specific you like about these formats, though, and other comments of it? 06:03:31 Solutions are actually provided if you change "puzzle" to "solution", although best is to try to figure it out by yourself 06:03:31 But if you don't want to try to solve them and just want an example of a solution you could look at one of them to see how the game works kind of 06:05:57 -!- carado has joined. 06:06:04 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:37 hm, looking at the solution of one of them, it seems as though it does require a bit of domain-specific knowledge. 06:08:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:08:30 I don't see all of the nice constraints falling into the place, where it magically happens that there's only one solution 06:08:58 Which solution are you viewing? 06:09:41 well, just of #1 06:12:25 Well, some of the steps may be commutative, in this and other solutions. 06:12:54 For example, step 1 and 2 can be swapped. 06:13:10 Other than these kind of things, I believe the solutions to be unique. 06:16:21 Also, except in the first two puzzles, the opponent gets a turn too. 06:17:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:18:02 The fifth puzzle is even more complicated than the others. 06:20:19 when people find bad solutions, is it because they misunderstand mechanics, or don't think of all ways opponent could counter, or stuff like that? 06:20:35 If you are sure you won't try it later, view that puzzle too and view that solution too (although perhaps first read the card data mentioned) 06:20:57 Gracenotes: Sometimes those are the reasons. Other times it is because they fail to read the entire file. 06:22:10 Do you think the glossary is good though, even only considering what you know about it? (Some of these things come from chess) 06:22:41 If you have any puzzles for Pokemon card or Magic: the Gathering or some other game, I would still like to see it please! 06:28:13 -!- douglass has joined. 06:28:38 glossary is a pleasant game, largely because of metagame exposition :) 06:29:28 s/game/read/, dunno where that came from. also, almost wrote game from. 06:31:07 Do you have any opinions on individual entries, suggestions for improvement, or new entries which could be added? 06:34:40 `slist 06:34:44 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:35:06 hm, not that I can think of. also, I do like the ASCII approximation of water symbol 06:35:18 and others too 06:50:01 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:52 Some people like them; some other people do not like them. I do like these symbols, which is why I used them. 07:28:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:49:16 Sometimes I see use of comments in an example computer program code which are placeholder for the other things that belong in its place. I think a better way would be use a chunk inclusion syntax of WEB, so that you can know it is not a comment. 07:49:52 (Furthermore, using the chunk inclusion syntax, it will actually compile and work properly, too.) 07:50:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:01:11 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:10:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:13:46 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:02 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:54:00 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:08:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 09:43:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:13:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:14:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:15:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:26:07 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:29:20 -!- conehead has joined. 10:36:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:42:30 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:23:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:29:58 -!- yorick has joined. 11:50:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:54:19 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:55:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:56:19 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:11:53 -!- boily has joined. 12:12:36 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:16:27 good vegetarian morning! 12:17:41 Vorpal: ah, first time I've heard of that. I'd say go for unstable, fsdvo unstable. 12:20:14 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:25:16 -!- hogeyui has joined. 12:28:49 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:33:42 helloily! 12:34:13 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:35:42 quinthello! 12:36:30 it's not vegetarian morning you know 12:36:33 turkey bacon 12:36:54 it isn't vegetarian morning indeed, but yesterday night was. 12:37:09 (and I guess nutella toasts are vegetarian, no? at least the OJ was.) 12:42:04 -!- hogeyui has joined. 12:59:00 `pastewisdom 12:59:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 12:59:16 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:59:36 do you like cookies 13:00:16 they're not my favourite type of biscuit but they're fine 13:00:42 quintopia: http://www.commercialbakeries.com/images/CookieOptions/CommericalCookiesProductsThumbBig.jpg 13:01:12 yes those 13:01:24 this subway didn't give me a receipt 13:01:30 so i can't take the survey 13:01:37 and get a free cookie 13:02:11 'tis a sad world where cookies aren't free to be freed. 13:03:04 i've never actually seen leaf shaped cookies before 13:03:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 13:03:11 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:03:17 seem like they'd be hard to make at home 13:03:23 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:05:10 quintopia: I think you can get cookie cutters for that, but you can get them in any respectable Canadian grocery. 13:05:24 I know I shouldn't, but it's very tempting... 13:05:28 `relcome Frooxius 13:05:32 ​Frooxius: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:05:49 you're at the wrong end of canadia 13:07:46 bah. humbug. it may be the wrong end, but it's a pretty wrong end. 13:09:07 this area is pretty 13:11:00 -!- yorick has joined. 13:11:51 quintopia: are you still in Newton? 13:14:05 -!- tromp has joined. 13:14:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:16:13 hellorick. hellomp. helloqy. 13:18:53 hello 13:40:35 quintopia: would you like a box of «biscuits feuille d'érable»? 13:47:37 -!- ter2 has joined. 13:49:24 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:49:53 -!- ter2 has joined. 13:50:40 `relcome ter2 13:50:41 ​ter2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:05:28 boily: i am nowhere near newton 14:05:41 boily: i will gladly eat cookies 14:06:57 quintopia: where is the approximate nowhere where you are at? I'll need that relevant info to send you the cookies. 14:10:00 boily: are you going to post them to me? 14:15:22 quintopia: I'd prefer to send them by submarine, but alas it is not practical in this reality-set. therefore, I'll have to do with Postes Canada and USPS. 14:16:30 send them to David Rutter, Gen. Delivery, Gorham, NH 03581. if they arrive in a week or less, i will get them. 14:17:36 you seem to be the travelling guy... oh well. let's do hope the postal services will be fast enough. 14:22:06 (I like our bilingual site... «Veuillez vérifier kind of biscuits») 14:51:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 14:55:19 nisstyrello. 14:56:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:05:00 quintopia, you can't just announce your address on the internet like that!! 15:10:01 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:13:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:15:24 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:30:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:40:57 Phantom_Hoover: so what, he just gave me the post office's address. he appröximates like a gentleman. 15:42:28 you are making me hate the diaeresis 15:42:37 i love the diaeresis 15:42:52 Phantom_Hoover: :̈) 15:43:03 fuck you boily 15:44:16 I lö̤ve you too. 15:44:39 diæ̈resis 15:49:40 three seconds away from banning the diaeresis here!! 15:52:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:52:55 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:06:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:13 -!- augur has joined. 16:11:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:19:28 -!- conehead has joined. 16:40:04 -!- tertu has joined. 16:43:06 -!- augur has joined. 16:44:49 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:51:28 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:54:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:54:34 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 16:58:21 -!- tertu has joined. 16:59:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:05:31 back from lunch, and the diæresis is still alive. in heaven, everything is fine. you got your good thing, and I've got mine. 17:07:49 i'm still at lunch 17:07:51 i had a gyro 17:07:59 i think i want another thing 17:08:06 -!- Bike has joined. 17:08:57 the only proper time to eat gyros, kebabs, shishes and other shawarmas is when the sun is down. 17:14:50 i can't make the sun go down sorry 17:14:58 i just have to eat now 17:23:36 how do you eat a gyro 17:23:45 actually, don't tell me 17:23:59 the mental image i have is more interesting and delicious than whatever you actually ate 17:24:24 i'm telling you 17:24:30 you put it in your mouth 17:24:35 bite 17:24:37 chew 17:24:37 "Nobody really styles their element with { display: inline }, for the most part" 17:24:39 and swallow 17:24:42 * boily has a mental image of Phantom_Hoover having a mental image of quintopia imagining eating a gyro. 17:24:59 kmc: what 17:25:05 kmc: “for the most part”??? 17:26:13 is it nonsense to set display: inline for the html element? 17:27:28 well... considering the state of everything web-based, it is only slightly nonsenser to inline . 17:30:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:30:41 «"More Research Urgently Needed on Caffeine," says Journal of Caffeine Research» http://view.liebertpubmail.com/?j=fe631771746400747011&m=ff281776736c&ls=fdc615737c6004787d17787564&l=fe61157870640678741c&s=fe1f1079726c037e751c72&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe2317777464027b7c1375&r=0 17:31:05 beautiful 17:31:53 journal of trippin' research 17:36:26 "gosh I'm so excited for more caffeine research!!!!!" said the caffeine researcher, jittering as he frantically tried to come up with the words to describe the energetic feelings coursing through his body 17:36:48 :| 17:36:58 «my glassware, let me show you it» 17:37:04 haha 17:37:24 unfortunately if you consume enough caffeine it stops doing anything at all 17:37:24 is that a drug reference? 17:37:44 caffeeine is a drug, yes 17:37:47 or it starts curing headaches, depending on how you look at it 17:39:30 kmc: "if you consume enough caffeine it stops doing anything at all" // my life 17:40:08 get off my lawn you punk druggies 17:40:28 I ain't no punk. 17:41:04 `addquote "gosh I'm so excited for more caffeine research!!!!!" said the caffeine researcher, jittering as he frantically tried to come up with the words to describe the energetic feelings coursing through his body 17:41:08 1103) "gosh I'm so excited for more caffeine research!!!!!" said the caffeine researcher, jittering as he frantically tried to come up with the words to describe the energetic feelings coursing through his body 17:41:34 that sounds like a lyttle lytton entry 17:41:46 everything's always lyttle lytton with you 17:41:50 that sounds like more work for me :p 17:41:51 there's more to life than lytton!! 17:41:55 there's a great rant about hippies in one of the mushroom books in my living room 17:42:03 everything should be all lyttle lytton all the time 17:42:29 basically the author is tired of hippies asking him stupid questions about mushrooms and so devotes a page or so to attacking their whole attitude and worldview 17:42:56 but it ends with basically "if you want to trip that's fine, just don't ask me dumb questions" 17:43:30 which of these shrooms are like the ones the olmecs used to talk to Gilgamesh 17:43:50 ~duck olmec 17:43:50 The Olmec were the first major civilization in Mexico. 17:43:55 ~duck gilgamesh 17:43:55 Mythology The semidivine king of Erech, a city of southern Babylonia, and hero of an epic collection of mythic tales, one of which tells of a flood that covered the earth. 17:43:59 ~duck mushroom 17:43:59 mushroom definition: an enlarged complex aboveground fleshy fruiting body of a fungus (as a basidiomycete) that consists typically of a stem bearing a pileus; '''especially'''. 17:44:11 ~duck bike 17:44:11 bike definition: '''chiefly Scottish''' a nest of wild bees, wasps, or hornets. 17:44:25 yep 17:44:29 OKAY 17:45:05 I completely fail to see the link made by a chiefly Scottish bike between ancient mexicans, ancient mesopotamians, and modern fungi. 17:45:18 0kay 17:45:21 in practice "mushroom" is used to describe fruiting bodies of some ascomycetes as well 17:45:36 modern fungot 17:45:36 kmc: of course, i know 17:45:51 * boily is scared. very, very scared. 17:48:04 of fungot? 17:48:04 olsner: process 2 killed. it's a mammal ( fnord) be top level? 17:48:45 fungot: are you a mammal? 17:48:45 kmc: but it doesn't answer my question dammit. you're right. i'm getting strange. mit scheme is 17:48:54 mit scheme is a mammal. 17:49:02 that's not surprising 17:49:36 * boily dons his +3 hazmat-mail of sentient bot warding 17:49:40 -!- douglass has joined. 17:49:55 (every piece of armour is *-mail. chain mail. scale mail. plate mail...) 17:51:43 say, do we have any D-class personel on hand in this channel? 17:52:16 we used to have fungot? 17:52:16 olsner: and some discordians say it's a clone of an operator 17:53:32 olsner: so fungot is a former D-class that got [REDACTED] into an IRC bot? 17:53:32 boily: so " my client..." is 17:54:32 fungot, attorney at law 17:54:32 kmc: 1. it's not the size, it's the pty itself that eats it 17:54:34 boily: [REDACTED] 17:55:20 olsner: gross. 18:00:08 ~duck laukaa 18:00:08 Laukaa is a municipality of Finland. 18:00:15 makes sense. 18:00:42 My aunt and her family have a place in Laukaa. 18:01:01 according to the quotes... 18:01:03 `quote laukaa 18:01:05 823) fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 18:01:36 Also: huh. One of the local TV channels is showing a program about baking at 04:15am-04:40am. I wonder if that has something to do with 420. 18:03:03 does anyone know a way to make my right shift key only work for things on the left-hand side of the keyboard? 18:03:12 fungot: Would you like to explain where that quote came from? 18:03:12 fizzie: i want to eat today :) prop. the best fnord 18:04:07 fungot: I'll feed you if you're helpful. 18:04:07 coppro: create a new kind of shift, xmodmap and/or create a new layout that uses that shift. 18:04:08 fizzie: that's the entire point of forking and returning twice, or using cfunge_realerr. 18:05:21 boily: afraid of that 18:05:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:05:26 iirc lshift and rshift are already separate modifiers but every key just maps to the same character with both left and right shift 18:05:31 Grep suggests it was extracted from " somewhere in the forests of laukaa." from #douglasadams of IRCnet in 2003-03-29. 18:06:12 olsner: That's not a true, at least in X. 18:06:12 olsner: iianm, lshift and rshift are separate keys, but they point to the same index in a key's definition. 18:06:42 fizzie: how about the (linux) console keymaps? 18:07:01 olsner: I don't recall enough about that. 18:07:52 can I get X to filter all keyboard commands through a daemon before going to other applications? 18:08:29 (doing this with a kernel change would definitely be Not A Bad Idea I'm sure) 18:08:54 olsner: ♪ding♪ you have quotes. 18:08:57 ksplice that shit 18:09:30 ksplice was originally called keysplice and used for that exact purpose 18:10:20 There's a bit of evdev called "uinput" that you can use to make an input device from userland. 18:10:34 You could have X read that, and source it from a real evdev device. 18:10:35 -!- Bike has joined. 18:10:59 (Sounds like quite the fiddly thing.) 18:11:55 You'd probably need a xorg.conf with some custom Keyboard blockery, because -- IIRC -- by default X would read all keyboard(s), so you'd get both your injected events and the originals. 18:12:19 `quote at least as on-topic 18:12:20 841) FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 18:12:56 olsner: thanks for that very helpful fact 18:13:02 boily: I think that "..." is not a redaction, it's just a pause 18:14:28 olsner: woops. I'll change it. 18:16:32 meanwhile, I have this feeling that I should include alise's quotes somewhere... 18:17:48 @tell alise where art thou nowst? 18:17:48 Consider it noted. 18:18:14 in the channel right now actually 18:19:24 olsner: you are alise? 18:19:28 nope 18:19:39 fungot: are you? 18:19:39 olsner: why do i need something to be desired, so it's all right, we are outside of the function 18:19:50 How philosophical 18:20:02 olsner: alise is the former D-class??? 18:20:30 no, fungot is 18:20:31 olsner: more or less automagically result in what the reader uses, though it would need to install loggerhead is good to hack in 18:21:53 me brains are not happy. me need many more coffee today. 18:22:33 `? copumpkin 18:22:35 copumpkin? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:22:35 | 18:22:35 º¯`\o 18:23:01 and may nobody come to me saying copumpkin is someone else without telling me who the someone else is. 18:23:51 I think copumpkin has always been copumpkin 18:24:09 thanks. I feel reassured now. 18:24:32 and I have always been me 18:24:33 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 18:24:50 olsner: Except when it transformed into a cocarriage briefly, I think. 18:26:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:26:43 fizzie: well, that I understand. the link is fairy evident. 18:27:30 Did you know: Google Chromebook Pixel's touchpad is: "analyzed and honed using a laser microscope for exceptional smoothness and accuracy". 18:27:38 Gosh 18:27:59 honed... that's when you cover it in honey right? 18:28:09 Covered in honey with lasers. 18:29:43 honing... isn't that like when you attract missiles with honey? 18:35:02 `slist 18:35:04 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 18:36:02 Thanks, Fiora 18:36:05 `thanks Fiora 18:36:07 Thanks, Fiora. Thiora. 18:36:49 Thiora: the sulfur-bridged version of Fiora. 18:37:16 haha 18:38:07 ttants: theobromine, thiobromine, bromine 18:38:14 (ttants = Things That Are Not the Same) 18:38:33 where's shachaf :( 18:38:34 Also: thiotimoline. 18:38:45 I want to do my usual "shachaf: did you know X" thing 18:38:50 but it seems silly if he's not actually here 18:39:06 fizzie: yes 18:39:13 let me just boot up my "shachaf simulation" 18:39:15 fun fact 0 = 1 18:39:27 but here goes anyway 18:39:39 Bike, I managed to parse that in such a way that it's true 18:39:49 "function factorial of 0 is 1" 18:40:01 | n = n * fact (n - 1) 18:40:01 shachaf: isn't it great how "ascii" and "iso8859-1" and "latin1" are all aliases for Windows-1252 on the Web 18:40:08 Taneb: !!!!! 18:40:09 Taneb: that's the joke 18:40:13 oh 18:40:15 oooooh 18:40:17 it's SML syntax 18:40:18 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh 18:40:24 taneb's mind is blown 18:40:32 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh 18:40:35 ꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮꙮh 18:40:42 looks like shachaf parted because Fiora said I was asleep(?) 18:40:49 confusing 18:40:55 well what's the point of being in an elliottless channel 18:43:42 kmc: what? are those... flowers??? 18:43:46 kmc: i can't see "Ed Balls" in news now without chuckling. thx 18:43:59 boily: multioculi 18:44:00 elliott: maybe it's coincidental? 18:44:24 ~duck multioculi 18:44:24 --- No relevant information 18:44:28 ~duck multioculus 18:44:29 --- No relevant information 18:44:33 ~duck multiocular o 18:44:33 Multiocular O is the most rare and exotic glyph variant of Cyrillic letter O. This glyph variant can be found in certain manuscripts in the phrase . 18:44:38 yesssss 18:45:01 Bike: can I eat your brains, so that I may gain understanding of the Duck? 18:45:12 nah 18:45:19 killjoy. 18:45:24 Bike: haha, this is my gift to you 18:45:25 eatjoy 18:45:45 the phrase is «серафими многоꙮчитїи» 18:45:53 "many-eyed seraphim" 18:45:53 "Ed Balls tells #c4news if Cameron puts military action back on table, Labour will consider this" "haha, balls" -- my head 18:46:19 as a job title, "shadow chancellor" sounds much cooler than it is 18:47:28 Bike, he used to be Secretary for Education 18:47:50 As far as schools were concerned, the British government was balls. 18:49:30 c.c 18:49:34 * boily subtly lurches over Bike with a pair of chopsticks and some light soy sauce 18:49:41 D: 18:49:45 the joke with ed balls isn't even "haha balls" although that can't hurt 18:49:55 it's the amazing tweet he sent and the 2+ year running joke about it 18:50:32 "Ed Balls."? 18:50:49 no fullstop even 18:50:55 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ed-balls 18:54:03 olsner: if I were to include alise in the PDF, under which name shall I put him/her/them? 18:58:11 alise is elliott 18:59:44 Ō_Ō. 18:59:52 that. is. most. disturbing. 19:01:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:02:48 that's probably not the word i'd use but okay 19:02:59 what's disturbing about it? 19:05:17 elliott is even more ancient and insane that I previously thought. 19:05:37 Phantom_Hoover: ♪dőng♪ your quotes are ready. 19:05:55 elliott, ban diaereses plx 19:06:54 it's not a diæresis, it's a double acute! 19:07:06 don't you try your french tricks on me 19:07:20 fyi, it's a Hungarian trick. hth. :D 19:07:48 speaking of Hungarian, have any of you tried sine mora? 19:08:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:10:05 hungarian tricks? have you been sipping the szoup again? 19:10:21 boily, he's also ehird hth 19:12:37 ah fungot. 19:12:38 boily: but no frog games on any... emergent properties :) i'm writing a brainfuck to c " compiler" portion that runs on .net. 19:12:53 olsner: I wish. 19:15:36 is ghci just really pokey 19:19:18 it took about a minute to calculate fib 40 19:21:30 it's slow but shouldn't be that slow 19:22:01 well it depends on your fib though 19:22:23 if you wrote fib n = fib (n-1) + fib (n-2) then you're doing O(2^n) work 19:22:32 (more preciself O(fib(n)), the algorithm's output is its running time!) 19:24:28 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:24:53 -!- tertu has joined. 19:25:05 ~duck tertu 19:25:05 --- No relevant information 19:27:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:27:42 -!- conehead has joined. 19:29:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:33:26 > let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs !! 40 19:33:27 102334155 19:33:30 That's a biggish number. 19:33:38 (Though not all *that* big.) 19:34:36 > fix((0:).scanl(+)1)!!40 -- showing off 19:34:37 102334155 19:38:59 echo -e 'let fib 0 = 0; fib 1 = 1; fib n = fib (n-1) + fib (n-2) in fib 40' | time ghci => 173 seconds; echo '(define (fib n) (if (< n 2) n (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))) (fib 40)' | time csi => 47 seconds. 19:39:06 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:39:56 > let fibs = 0 : 1 : uncurry (zipWith (+)) ((id &&& tail) fibs) in fibs !! 40 19:39:57 102334155 19:40:07 @tell Sgeo ♪d奥ng♪ you have quotes! 19:40:07 Consider it noted. 19:40:48 Is that a CJK pictograph in place of an 'i'? 19:40:59 Oh, I thought it was in place of an 'o'. 19:41:02 FireFly: no, in place of an o. 19:41:08 Oh. 19:41:09 -!- Bike has joined. 19:41:33 FireFly: the more quotes I have to format, the opener the vowel. 19:41:47 (I should have used an 'a' when Phantom_Hoovering...) 19:42:03 `quote FireFly 19:42:05 57) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies \ 841) FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 19:42:16 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:42:37 > 102334155 -- now *that's* code golf 19:42:37 FireFly: your quote is in the file, if you want to check it. 19:42:38 102334155 19:42:39 What exactly is this pdf thing you're doing? 19:42:49 you have a file on me?! 19:43:00 nooodl: wow, impressive 19:43:13 hm? oh, no. not at all. 19:43:20 > 0x6197ecb -- Aww, no golf. 19:43:21 102334155 19:43:28 * boily hides the evidence under the... darn. there is no rug here, only wooden floors. 19:43:52 > fib 40 -- just in case the function exists... 19:43:53 Not in scope: `fib' 19:43:53 Perhaps you meant `fix' (imported from Data.Function) 19:44:35 FireFly: I'm reformatting the wisdom and quotes, for posterity. and because I am not insane. 19:44:44 > ord'x̢̳̙̏̈́ͧ̏͝' 19:44:45 :1:6: lexical error at character '\783' 19:44:50 Oh, okay 19:44:56 (huh lambdabot doesn't know about the 102334155th unicode char??) 19:44:59 > ord '\783' 19:45:00 783 19:45:13 > ord maxBound 19:45:14 1114111 19:45:24 @let fib n = let aux (f1,f2) = (f2,f1+f2) in iterate aux (0,1) !! n 19:45:26 Defined. 19:45:30 nooodl: That wasn’t a character. 19:45:30 > fib 0 19:45:33 (0,1) 19:45:35 oh, wait. 19:45:36 derp. 19:45:41 @let fib n = let aux (f1,f2) = (f2,f1+f2) in fst $ iterate aux (0,1) !! n 19:45:42 .L.hs:151:1: Warning: 19:45:42 Pattern match(es) are overlapped 19:45:42 In an equat... 19:45:55 @let fib n = let aux (f1,f2) = (f2,f1+f2) in fst (iterate aux (0,1) !! n) 19:45:56 .L.hs:151:1: Warning: 19:45:56 Pattern match(es) are overlapped 19:45:56 In an equat... 19:45:56 ion: how was that joke supposed to work with a single *existing* unicode char though! 19:46:02 :t fst 19:46:02 (a, b) -> a 19:46:11 what am i missing here 19:46:15 > fib 10 19:46:18 (55,89) 19:46:43 lambdabot: what's the deal! 19:46:52 maybe fib is already defined? 19:46:53 you defined fib three times 19:47:12 well i wanted the one to override the other! 19:47:17 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:47:22 @help let 19:47:22 let = . Add a binding 19:47:29 @help undefine 19:47:29 undefine. Reset evaluator local bindings 19:47:30 @unlet fib 19:47:30 Parse failed: TemplateHaskell is not enabled 19:47:37 elliott: help 19:47:44 @undefine let 19:47:45 There's currently no way to undefine just one thing. Say @undefine (with no extra words) to undefine everything. 19:47:48 @undefine 19:47:48 Undefined. 19:47:58 wow great. 19:48:05 @let a = 102334155 19:48:05 @let fib n = let aux (f1,f2) = (f2,f1+f2) in fst $ iterate aux (0,1) !! n 19:48:06 Defined. 19:48:07 Defined. 19:48:10 > fib 10 19:48:13 55 19:48:18 > fib 1000 19:48:21 434665576869374564356885276750406258025646605173717804024817290895365554179... 19:48:26 cool 19:49:29 when i do iterate like that does the compiler avoid generating code to actually build the list 19:49:39 @let tetration a b = foldr1 (^) $ replicate b a 19:49:40 Defined. 19:49:48 > fib $ tetration 3 4 19:49:59 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:50:05 beuh :( 19:50:15 if you wanted that i'd use a log definition of fib 19:50:20 ("yes that would help") 19:51:31 > tetration 3 4 19:51:38 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:52:11 even the tetration won't do. I guess g_64 is way off limits... 19:53:15 compared to g_64, fib g_64 isn't that much bigger :p 19:54:25 I tried 3 ↑↑ 4 on my machine. forcefully kill -9ed the process after it gobbled a full 4 GB of ram... 19:57:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:01:12 fib is approximately exponential anyway 20:04:33 boily: 3 ↑↑ 4 has... approximately 3.6*10^12 decimal digits, if I read 'pedia right -- so 4 gigs sounds a bit small for storing the number. 20:04:35 @src tetration 20:04:35 Source not found. Where did you learn to type? 20:04:40 -!- Bike has joined. 20:05:22 fizzie: well, it was growing, and I didn't want my machine to suddenly crash in the middle of good music playing in my headphones. 20:06:00 "g_64" bam stored!! 20:06:04 > zipWith logBase <*> tail $ fix ((0:) . (1:) . (zipWith (+) <*> tail)) 20:06:05 [-0.0,NaN,Infinity,1.584962500721156,1.464973520717927,1.2920296742201791,1... 20:06:19 boily: pipe g_64 to /dev/snd 20:06:30 > drop 50 $ zipWith logBase <*> tail $ fix ((0:) . (1:) . (zipWith (+) <*> tail)) 20:06:31 [1.0206920565661424,1.0202725752914699,1.0198697640046614,1.019482648379181... 20:06:57 "[-0.0,NaN,Infinity,1.584962500721156,..." is the best start for a sequence. 20:06:57 > drop 200 $ zipWith logBase <*> tail $ fix ((0:) . (1:) . (zipWith (+) <*> tail)) 20:06:58 [1.005042159409283,1.0050168635833612,1.0049918203018742,1.0049670258016374... 20:07:08 Bike: I like to pipe my swap partition to /dev/snd from time to time. 20:07:14 ion: what is this exactly 20:07:16 ion: that is unholy. 20:07:38 bike: log fib_n / log fib_{n−1} 20:07:40 @tell shachaf ♪dıng♪ you have quotes. 20:07:40 Consider it noted. 20:07:45 oh 20:08:14 Re: “approximately exponential”, i was curious about that. 20:08:40 well it's roughly phi^ or whatever 20:09:18 > zipWith (/) <*> tail $ fix ((0:) . (1:) . (zipWith (+) <*> tail)) 20:09:19 [0.0,1.0,0.5,0.6666666666666666,0.6,0.625,0.6153846153846154,0.619047619047... 20:09:39 well, that showed that pretty well 20:09:45 > drop 50 $ zipWith (/) <*> tail $ fix ((0:) . (1:) . (zipWith (+) <*> tail)) 20:09:46 [0.6180339887498949,0.6180339887498949,0.6180339887498949,0.618033988749894... 20:09:58 that's 1/phi, of course 20:10:02 known to its close friends as phi-1 20:10:12 s/1\/phi/phi - 1/ 20:10:25 s/phi-1/1 \/ phi/ 20:10:39 wow boily 20:11:02 If you find yourself escaping a slash with a backslash in regexps, you’re Doing It Wrong™. 20:11:03 you didn't see nothing. 20:11:07 More things should have \ as the reverse division operator. (a\b = b/a.) 20:11:25 https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/377120854678585344 this is going well 20:12:00 D: 20:12:04 “Something something Streisand something...’ 20:12:09 http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/on-nsa.html said post 20:12:11 get it while it's hot 20:12:31 "Go after the implementation. Cryptography is almost always implemented in software -- and software is a disaster" lol :/ 20:13:07 fungot: You're a disaster. 20:13:07 fizzie: i installed wiliki source patches gdbm-ci, and had a simple reader macro in chicken" from google :p. but, this way i have already 20:13:15 Yeah, I'd say that confirms it. 20:15:11 "Ugh MAIN macro, great. *WASH_Eyes_outWith_soap*" oh, i see 20:15:51 #ifdef (OMG) if (moo) { ... } else #endif <-- oh 20:16:01 ~duck moo 20:16:09 mooed, mooing, moos To emit the deep, bellowing sound made by a cow; low. 20:16:10 re backdooring standards, have you seen https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/11/the_strange_sto.html 20:16:28 tl;dr: one of the NIST recommended PRNGs makes no sense unless designing in a backdoor was a primary concern 20:16:44 great. 20:17:44 kmc: But what if you *do* need a backdoor? 20:17:47 Fire safety and all 20:19:18 @tell tswett ♪տինկ♪ you have quotes! 20:19:18 "The original author of OpenSSL thought it would be a fun way to learn C." o.O 20:19:18 Consider it noted. 20:19:39 v.fun 20:25:12 Reasons why I should not be an actor: I managed to lose a prop in the 5 or so meters between the props table and the stage 20:27:36 Taneb: was it an orange? 20:27:45 It was a plastic shot glass 20:37:21 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:37:58 -!- conehead has joined. 20:42:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:44:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:47:33 before I reformat ZOMGMODULES, is he/she/they a singular person, or should they be conflagrated with someone else? 20:48:22 boily: ZOMG* 20:48:31 zomgmodules is chris p., last i checked 20:48:52 Roujo: o hai! 20:48:56 boily: Hai ^^ 20:49:11 mnoqy: oh, thanks! 20:49:38 -!- tertu has joined. 20:52:51 why the fuck do i have texlive installed anyway 20:52:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:53:22 Phantom_Hoover: because you are a responsible adult. 21:06:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:12:40 -!- Bike has joined. 21:16:01 boily, I think the two oklos are two different people 21:16:24 what 21:16:28 where did you get that idea from 21:17:15 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:40 Phantom_Hoover, a wise man told me many years ago 21:17:44 I think it was oerjan 21:17:48 Maybe fizzie 21:17:56 was this wise man oko by any chance 21:17:58 And by many years ago, I of course mean about two 21:18:01 never trust anything oko says, ever 21:18:59 Anyway, I am going to stalk sleep and kill it 21:19:03 Goodnight 21:19:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:19:18 considering that fizzie and oerjan may have been answering based on information given to them by oko 21:19:22 fuck you taneb 21:23:32 fizzie is wise. oerjan is... uhm... wise too, I guess. 21:24:10 Welp. Not-bus time again 21:24:12 'night 21:29:03 @tell zzo38 ♪moof♪ you have quotes! 21:29:03 Consider it noted. 21:29:10 hungry. 21:29:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:29:16 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:49:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:57:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:00:39 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:04:42 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/dennis-rodman-north-korea-baby-name I don't understand anything any more 22:04:50 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:06:00 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:06:02 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 22:17:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds). 22:25:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 22:27:25 -!- Bike has joined. 22:45:07 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:51:21 woah: python -c 'print u"\N{CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O}"' 22:52:02 ⎈very useful 22:52:21 python -c 'print u"\N{SNOWMAN}"' 22:52:26 `python -c 'print u"\N{SNOWMAN}"' 22:52:28 ​ File "", line 1 \ 'print u"\N{SNOWMAN}"' \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent 22:52:36 darn 22:53:11 that's puzzling 22:53:20 oh wait 22:53:23 `run python -c 'print u"\N{SNOWMAN}"' 22:53:25 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u2603' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128) 22:53:32 `run python -c 'print u"\N{SNOWMAN}".encode("utf-8")' 22:53:33 ​☃ 22:53:37 yay! 22:55:49 `run printf '#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nimport unicodedata\n\nprint unicodedata.lookup(sys.argv[1])\n' > bin/unicode && chmod +x bin/unicode 22:55:53 No output. 22:55:54 `unicode SNOWMAN 22:55:55 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print unicodedata.lookup(sys.argv[1]) \ UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u2603' in position 0: ordinal not in range(128) 22:56:04 `run printf '#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nimport unicodedata\n\nprint unicodedata.lookup(sys.argv[1]).encode("utf-8")\n' > bin/unicode && chmod +x bin/unicode 22:56:04 lol 22:56:08 No output. 22:56:10 `unicode SNOWMAN 22:56:11 ​☃ 22:56:20 `unicode CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O 22:56:21 ​ꙮ 22:56:53 I started writing like eval(r'u"\N{'+sys.argv[1]+'}') and then I was like "... no" 22:57:03 hahah 22:57:16 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON 22:57:18 ​ǟ 22:58:13 `run printf '#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nimport unicodedata\n\nprint u''.join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8")\n' > bin/unicode && chmod +x bin/unicode 22:58:17 No output. 22:58:45 `run unicode 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y' 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A' 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y' 22:58:47 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u.join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ NameError: name 'u' is not defined 22:58:57 `run printf '#!/usr/bin/env python\nimport sys\nimport unicodedata\n\nprint u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8")\n' > bin/unicode && chmod +x bin/unicode 22:59:01 No output. 22:59:02 `run unicode 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y' 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A' 'LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y' 22:59:04 YAY 22:59:11 `unicode SNOWMAN 22:59:13 ​☃ 22:59:27 so, you need to import unicodedata for something strings need anyway, huh 23:00:22 U+034F COMBINING GRAPHEME JOINER 23:00:27 "The name does not describe the function of this character. Despite its name, it does not join graphemes." 23:00:37 does it at least combine 23:00:46 `run unicode 'LATIN MINUSCULE LETTER H' 'LATIN MINUSCULE LETTER T' 'LATIN MINUSCULE LETTER H' 23:00:48 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'LATIN MINUSCULE LETTER H'" 23:00:49 or is everything i know a lie. 23:00:51 darn 23:01:00 foiled by terminology 23:01:25 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER H' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER H' 23:01:25 maybe rewrite it to do a nearest edit distance match 23:01:26 that could be fun 23:01:27 hth 23:01:56 I love that an international technical standard has an appendix which starts "There are two separate cantillation systems in the Hebrew Bible." 23:07:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:32 don't you know, you can't be Floating and Integral at the same time. it's totally impossible <-- you make that sound like a challenge. 23:10:16 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:13:20 -!- tertu has joined. 23:15:27 -!- Bike has joined. 23:16:09 -!- CADD has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:34:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:44:32 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:45:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:46:11 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 2013-09-10: 00:02:13 -!- NihilistDandy has quit. 00:16:27 -!- nisstyre has changed nick to Nisstyre-laptop. 00:19:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 00:21:42 -!- nisstyre has changed nick to nisstyre-laptop. 00:22:32 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:34:42 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:50:19 @tell boily and may nobody come to me saying copumpkin is someone else without telling me who the someone else is. <-- this may come as a shock to you, but copumpkin is also pumpkin. also, i know who alise is *MWAHAHAHA* 00:50:19 Consider it noted. 00:55:50 -!- carado_ has joined. 01:08:08 @tell elliott is even more ancient and insane that I previously thought. <-- there are even more ancient names but they may be older than the quote database. 01:08:08 Consider it noted. 01:10:40 `run sed '/ .*//' quotes 01:10:41 sed: -e expression #1, char 6: unknown command: `/' 01:10:44 oops 01:10:47 `run sed 's/ .*//' quotes 01:10:49 \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ IN \ \ \ IN \ \ IN \ \ IN \ SUPLENTES \ PA \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ IN is my hero 01:11:31 IN UNIVERSO, the dimension traveller? 01:12:16 `run grep '^IN' quotes 01:12:17 IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, 01:12:56 -!- ggherdov has joined. 01:13:10 the iterative nature of quote deletion means that the database's initial part is much more time than the final part 01:13:20 perhaps exponentially so 01:13:49 `quote tusho 01:13:51 No output. 01:17:49 for some strange reason, alt-up... wait, my p key was stuck and that somehow caused alt-up not to work :P 01:19:01 also, keys shouldn't get stuck after just 3 months :( 01:22:12 although it's not really _that_ surprising. i already know that i cannot push many digit keys simultaneously and expect all to work (because i do this for some of tatham's puzzles which sometimes need me to mark a cell with a lot of digits.) 01:23:20 oerjan: that applies to your keys in general, most likely 01:23:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_(key) 01:23:42 i can press 1234 and they all mark, but adding 5 messes that up. 01:25:46 -!- trout has changed nick to variable. 01:25:54 34, 35, and 45 work, but not 345. 01:26:54 my old laptop didn't have that problem. 01:26:56 you should read the article :p 01:27:13 yeah yeah but also i should eat -> 01:35:52 TIME TO EAT 01:36:02 s/EAT/SLEEP/g 01:36:04 There we go 01:36:06 'night 01:40:30 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:42:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:03:25 `slist 02:03:27 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:03:31 (I don't think this was slisted yet?) 02:05:03 maybe we could have an `slistlist to broadcast that there has been an slist 02:17:32 sensible 02:29:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:29:44 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:36:38 I might have an excuse to use *arbitrary language* at work 02:37:08 whoa 02:37:13 Looking to use Tcl. [string map] is... er, convenient, although probably other languages do have similar functionality in their stdlib 02:37:32 `pastequotes 02:37:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5590 02:37:56 boily: wt 02:37:58 wat 02:38:16 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:39:53 Sgeo: i suggest using more hungarian 02:40:32 [string map] is pretty much literally what I want to accomplish 02:46:14 @tell boily fizzie is wise. oerjan is... uhm... wise too, I guess. <-- I SENSE SOME HESITATION 02:46:15 Consider it noted. 03:46:26 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:49:00 -!- olsner has joined. 03:58:46 -!- nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:23:27 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:26:02 -!- augur has joined. 06:04:29 -!- leftluggage has joined. 06:04:50 `WeLcOmE leftluggage 06:04:53 LeFtLuGgAgE: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 06:07:45 oerjan: I'm sure boily was just uncertain between "wise" and some sort of word denoting "even wiser". 06:08:14 OKAY 06:08:26 SOUNDS SENSIBLE 06:11:16 -!- leftluggage has left ("Leaving"). 06:14:01 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 06:14:02 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:16:00 -!- aloril has joined. 06:16:45 -!- ion has quit (Quit: :q). 06:17:23 -!- ion has joined. 06:23:21 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:41:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:50:03 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:04:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:19:43 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:27:43 -!- quintopia has joined. 08:52:17 "You've got 10G quota limit at /home directory by mistake. Mistake was in the 'newuser' script. As a result we just noticed /home is almost full with about 6% of space left. All /home quotas have been fixed, returned back to origins: 1G." 08:52:21 Heh. 09:11:42 -!- douglass has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:42 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:42 -!- ssue__ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:42 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:43 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:43 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:43 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:43 -!- hypha has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:44 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:44 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:44 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:44 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:45 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:45 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:45 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:46 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 09:11:46 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 09:15:12 -!- nisstyre has joined. 09:16:17 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:17:17 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:17:17 -!- Bike has joined. 09:17:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 09:17:17 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:17:17 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:20:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:20:19 -!- ion has joined. 09:20:19 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 09:20:19 -!- olsner has joined. 09:20:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:20:19 -!- Gregor has joined. 09:20:19 -!- ssue__ has joined. 09:20:19 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 09:20:19 -!- hypha has joined. 09:20:19 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:20:19 -!- heroux has joined. 09:20:19 -!- oklopol has joined. 09:20:19 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +o HackEgo . 09:23:38 -!- ggherdov has joined. 09:35:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:40:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 10:51:10 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:00:21 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:00:49 -!- carado has joined. 11:23:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:31:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:33:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 11:34:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:47:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:00:09 -!- Bike has joined. 12:11:35 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:22:01 -!- boily has joined. 12:22:01 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:34:49 good criossant morning! 12:35:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:36:24 @tell oerjan I think the alise mystery got leaked yesterday. but, I happily have a git repo backing the whole thing in case the Revelation was False, and it can be easily unmerged. 12:36:24 Consider it noted. 12:37:06 @tell oerjan that wasn't an hesitation. it was... uh... only a pause. yeah. I was taking a breath, there. y'know, asthma and all that sort of thing... 12:37:07 Consider it noted. 12:49:05 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:50:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:56:00 ~metar CYFB 12:56:01 CYFB 101254Z 32027KT 30SM -SHSN OVC030 RMK SC8 CU ASOCTD 12:56:14 eh? no temperature??? 12:57:39 ~metar AAXX 12:57:39 AAXX 200000 40650 42960  00201 10278 20114 40008 58003 12:57:50 WELP. 12:58:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:01:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:02:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:05:38 -!- Bike has joined. 13:12:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:14:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:02:40 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:05:49 -!- conehead has joined. 14:13:49 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:22:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:26:45 -!- yorick has joined. 14:29:00 Hello! 14:29:24 Tanello! 14:33:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:35:24 -!- glogbackup has joined. 14:37:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:40:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:41:01 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:45:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:51:54 I was exploring my old dev folders, and stumbled upon a (not quite bugless) implementation of the Munching Squares: http://pastebin.ca/2447507 15:16:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:21:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:22:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:23:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 15:23:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:37:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:45:37 -!- Bike has joined. 15:45:55 ~duck glossina 15:45:55 A blood-sucking African fly that transmits sleeping sickness etc.; the tsetse fly. 15:46:39 you know, around here blood-sucking flies are called mosquitoes 15:47:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:47:40 Around here they are called #esoteric chatters. 15:48:14 * boily swats fizzie with a non-standard, unregulated metric fly swatter --------### 15:48:29 D: 15:48:40 THINK OF THE SI CHILDREN! 15:49:12 ~metar CYUL 15:49:12 CYUL 101500Z 06004KT 6SM -DZ BR BKN008 OVC012 16/15 A2997 RMK SF6SF2 SLP149 DENSITY ALT 200FT 15:49:17 Hmmmm 15:49:18 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 15:49:22 So... crappy weather, got it 15:49:33 -!- Bike has joined. 15:50:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:50:32 a whole week of pure «n'importe quoi», humidly served upon our heads. 15:51:18 Yesterday was the last day of summer, according to the headlines. 15:51:20 Pretty much. 28 tomorrow 15:51:25 30 with Humidex 15:51:32 ~metar EFHK 15:51:32 EFHK 101520Z 08007KT 9999 FEW020 BKN095 16/12 Q1018 NOSIG 15:52:46 “Horse fly bites are painful, the bites of large specimens especially so. Most short tongued (short proboscid) species of horse flies use their knife-like mandibles to rip and/or slice flesh apart.” 15:52:58 horse skin is tough. 15:53:20 ~metar EGNT 15:53:21 EGNT 101520Z 35015KT 9999 SCT029 SCT035 15/09 Q1021 15:53:21 that's not even getting into the growths, either.. 15:53:38 trying to explain to horse flies that you aren't a horse is a lost and painful cause. 15:53:59 most of them only speak greek, not french, ironically 15:54:21 does anyone know how to make office365 play nice with an email client? pop3 and however that shit works 15:54:22 you talk to horse flies? 15:54:37 well i /am/ a tsetse. 15:55:03 But no, I don't speak any Greek, what makes you think I would? 15:56:14 Δεν έχω ιδέα. 15:56:36 somehow i don't think that's actual greek! 15:56:48 Den echo idea? 15:56:53 probably not. it went through google translate, after all. 15:57:02 den echo idea 15:57:16 ~echo den idea. 15:57:17 den idea. 15:57:36 ~den echo idea 15:57:36 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 15:57:44 boily: fix 15:58:02 > fix ~echo den idea 15:58:04 Pattern syntax in expression context: ~echoNot in scope: `den' 15:58:04 Perhaps you... 15:58:11 elliott: fix 16:01:27 `complain ~den and > fix should be valid commands. 16:01:28 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:02:28 > (fix (\f n -> if n = 0 then 1 else n * f (n - 1))) 10 16:02:29 :1:20: parse error on input `=' 16:02:37 bah! 16:02:41 > (fix (\f n -> if n == 0 then 1 else n * f (n - 1))) 10 16:02:42 3628800 16:02:55 Oh, so > fix exists? 16:02:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:03:04 fix is a function. 16:03:15 > fix 16:03:16 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 16:03:16 arising from a use ... 16:03:29 `complain > fix shouldn't exist for my previous complaint about it not existing to be valid 16:03:30 Complaint filed. Thank you. 16:04:47 well, it doesn't. > is just eval, and "> fix" isn't a distinct thing. 16:05:04 Sure it is 16:05:05 > 16:05:09 Does nothing 16:05:11 > fix 16:05:12 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 16:05:12 arising from a use ... 16:05:13 Does something 16:05:17 So they're not the same 16:05:23 > (1+) . (fix (\f n -> if n == 0 then 1 else n * f (n - 1))) 4 16:05:24 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable c0) 16:05:24 arising from a use ... 16:05:56 > 16:05:57 :1:1: lexical error at character '\SYN' 16:05:59 Nice 16:08:33 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:12:00 -!- conehead has joined. 16:23:36 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:29:58 -!- sdfsdf has joined. 16:31:41 -!- sdfsdf has quit (Client Quit). 16:42:09 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 16:51:17 back from lunch, and I still don't know where the quotes end at. 16:51:40 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:54:56 s/quotes/complaints/ 16:55:08 which, as strange as it may appear at first, are two different things. 17:11:15 `complain about the general unfairness of life. 17:11:16 Complaint filed. Thank you. 17:11:23 That's a useful device. 17:12:04 `head complaints 17:12:05 No output. 17:12:29 `cat complaints 17:12:30 No output. 17:12:33 hm. 17:13:34 `cat complains 17:13:35 cat: complains: No such file or directory 17:13:38 `cat complain 17:13:40 cat: complain: No such file or directory 17:13:43 hmm... 17:14:51 (meanwhile, two of our support guys are having a heated discussion on our intranet IRC, trying to put our mail server back online. it's fun to watch :D) 17:17:08 Cats do complain. 17:23:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:25:03 boily: Are you talking about `complain? 17:26:17 Roujo: probably. I'm in a post-lunch induced retrogradation of my mental capacities, so I can't assert nothing atm. hth. 17:26:35 àssert boily 17:26:37 Erm 17:26:42 `assert boily 17:26:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: assert: not found 17:26:45 >nope 17:27:11 `complain boily doesn't know how to read the complain file. Please fix. 17:27:12 Complaint filed. Thank you. 17:28:20 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 17:29:10 `relcome SingingBoyo 17:29:14 ​SingingBoyo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:31:39 boily: What did you go eat? 17:32:04 Roujo: pulled pork sandwich with a bottle of curiosity cola, at the «Dépanneur le Pick-Up». 17:32:31 Nice, nice 17:32:38 Curiosity Cola? 17:32:40 Sounds good 17:32:40 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:32:46 Never heard of it, though 17:32:57 `complain I should have heard of it but haven't until now. 17:32:58 Complaint filed. Thank you. 17:33:53 Roujo: http://www.fentimans.com/soft_drinks 17:34:11 nice 17:34:13 Very nice 17:34:19 Oooh, it even has water 17:34:27 And carbonated, at that 17:34:32 Do want 17:34:39 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go!"). 17:34:43 -!- Roujo has joined. 17:34:45 CRAP 17:34:47 MY VOICE 17:34:56 CTRL+W to close the cola window 17:35:01 Closed the channel tab instead 17:35:04 Well crap 17:35:15 RIP my voice, 2013-2013 17:35:43 elliott: can you voice me, now that Roujo's Monopoly has ended? pretty please with watery eyes like a young high school girl in a romance anime? 17:36:27 Do you have a nice skirt and knee-high socks? 17:36:37 Because that's the key 17:36:47 not yet, sadly. but I can go fetch a rubber horse head quickly! 17:36:51 ... 17:36:55 :D 17:37:01 I'm not quite sure that it would do 17:37:11 `complain I don't have a horse head. D: 17:37:12 Complaint filed. Thank you. 17:37:13 who knows. elliott, what do you think? 17:37:21 Yeah, it's up to elliott now 17:38:52 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:40:14 -!- Bike has joined. 17:40:28 Roujo: getting a hold of a skirt and socks might be a little bit difficult in my case. my friends object to lending me that kind of accessories, under pretext that «t'aimerais trop ça». 17:40:51 Good call, I guess? =P 17:41:06 I wore a dress on stage, once. We did Les Belles Soeurs in High School. =P 17:41:12 Had to wear makeup and all. 17:41:56 Is that... is that a Hexham company? 17:42:30 fizzie: what, fentiman's? 17:42:34 Yes. 17:42:36 It says "Fentimans UK, 6 Rear Battle Hill, Hexham" in the bottom. 17:42:47 oh. the. fungot. 17:42:48 boily: ( except when i'm wasting time on such fnord now and then 17:43:06 It sounds... significant. 17:43:26 (Also a street called "Rear Battle Hill" sounds slightly dirty.) 17:43:56 I... I am seriously shaken, there. 17:44:23 (also, there aren't any "'"s in the name, apparently.) 17:44:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:44:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:45:27 `learn fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack. 17:45:32 I knew that. 17:45:36 Most people did 17:46:50 "The world’s best cola" - The Guardian 17:46:58 hexham, home of the world's best cola 17:47:10 Hexham, home of the world's best everything. 17:47:38 Hexham is delicious 17:47:41 I can't find who's selling that thing in Finland. Given the source, it sounds like a kind of a must-have product. 17:47:56 Do you get that Hexham feeling when you drink their things? 17:48:17 I never went to any part of the UK, so I can't relate :( 17:48:17 fizzie, I ate like half of Hexham last week 17:48:32 boily, Fentimans is sold in Canada 17:48:47 fizzie, Rear Battle Hill is just the rear of Battle Hill 17:49:07 So called because there never was a battle fought there, ever 17:49:11 Taneb: of course it is sold here. I had one for lunch! 17:49:16 ^ 17:49:20 Oh, cool 17:49:27 fizzie: i was looking up if it was easy to get around here too! 17:49:40 It's the best 17:49:43 imo, their ginger beer is the best. 17:49:59 I prefer the cola. The shandy isn't bad 17:50:24 we don't seem to have the shandy here, nor the cool ginger beer. 17:50:27 fentimans.be exists but it's the worst website i've ever experienced. 17:51:01 nooodl, drinkfentimans.com is worse 17:51:41 There's some Finnish "purchasing solutions for professionals in the HoReCa sector" company who, according to their news page, have it in their selections, but that's probably not a place that'd sell for end users. 17:51:43 It's one of those sites entirely written in Flash 17:51:49 -!- aloril has joined. 17:51:57 I just got kicked in the head for wondering aloud why Google Glass doesn't use C# 17:51:59 GG me 17:52:22 Roujo: kicked by a coworker? 17:52:33 Well, "aloud" on another channel 17:52:40 On another network 17:52:43 (Their ginger ale seems easier to find than the cola.) 17:52:47 Taneb: very 00s 17:53:46 I mean, I know it's cool to hate on C# and all 17:54:01 But if you'd use it on anything, wouldn't Glasses be a good call? 17:56:47 (Then again, my job is party to code in C#, plus I really like bad puns, so I'm probably biased.) 17:57:54 * boily just understood the pun. 17:59:03 I could go into like a dozen shops in Hexham and buy Fentimans 17:59:27 you Hexhamites and your decadent lifestyles... 17:59:28 Taneb: I am envious. 17:59:48 `complain Seeing bad puns doesn't happen often enough > complaints/hats 17:59:50 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:00:00 that's an awesomely bad pun Roujo 18:00:07 also it's not that cool to hate on C# 18:00:17 it's like a better Java, and the alternative for Glass would be Java no? 18:00:30 I don't know what's cool and not cool, apparently =P 18:00:37 not knowing what's cool is v. cool 18:00:45 I do all of my work on C# and Java 18:00:52 Plus RPGLE 18:00:54 Wooo 18:00:57 Why do Amazon.co.uk listings not show anything about shipping to the country listed in my account. It's all about UK delivery. 18:01:04 C# is like a better Java but with less being sued by Oracle and more being sued by Microsoft. 18:01:28 Grello. 18:05:06 Hmmm... If I teach programming to my SO using Brainfuck, will that be a good thing or bad thing in the long run? 18:05:19 Assuming it doesn't kill her outright, of course 18:05:41 That's always a good assumption to make 18:06:09 If it doesn't kill her outright, it'll make her stronger, and then she can overpower you and escape the Brainfuck study sessions. (Something to keep in mind.) 18:06:29 to have a strong SO to conquer the world... 18:08:52 also keep in mind that some people who learn brainfuck end up getting their brain replaced by a brick 18:10:25 don't break my dreams of having a powerful Master of the Earth SO who Knows Brainfuck! 18:11:07 BOTH OUR DREAMS 18:11:15 OUR SOS WILL RULE THE WORLD 18:11:21 RIGHT ON! 18:17:12 maybe you should just become eachother's SO, then you won't have to teach anyone brainfuck 18:17:20 (assuming you already know it) 18:18:49 I have no problems with the skirts and socks and horses, but I don't think our SOs are going to agree. 18:25:57 -!- douglass has joined. 18:27:45 hellouglass. 18:29:52 `complain about horses 18:29:53 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:30:10 `pastewisdom 18:30:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 18:32:03 -!- tromp_ has quit. 18:32:46 `complain this command is a hack! I protest! 18:32:47 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:35:52 ~yi 18:35:52 Your divination: "Enveloping" to "Enveloping" 18:38:52 `slist 18:38:54 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 18:39:05 `thanks Fiora 18:39:07 Thanks, Fiora. Thiora. 18:40:01 `` 18:40:02 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 18:41:49 ~yi 18:41:49 Your divination: "Retiring" to "Sojourning" 18:41:50 `thanks zzzzz 18:41:51 Thanks, zzzzz. Tzzzz. 18:42:35 `? fentimans 18:42:37 fentimans is a delicious beverage out from Hexham, that can be paired with a fresh fternooner for a nutritive midday snack. 18:45:48 `? metasepia 18:45:49 metasepia? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:45:49 | 18:45:50 º¯`\o 18:45:56 hm. 18:46:12 `learn metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport. 18:46:17 I knew that. 18:46:27 `learn metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 18:46:32 I knew that. 18:47:05 boily: Why are you complaining about `complain? 18:47:12 Isn't that a tad too meta? 18:47:28 `complain `complain sucks 18:47:29 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:47:36 Thaneb. 18:47:51 `complain Roujo isn't meta enough. 18:47:52 Complaint filed. Thank you. 18:48:17 `complain 18:48:18 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:05:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:06:18 `pastequotes 19:06:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.690 19:09:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:14:53 Vorpal: ♪vietnam's currency♪ you have quotes! 19:16:18 `complain that I'm not sure I even have quotes 19:16:19 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:16:29 Oh 19:16:31 I have one 19:16:31 Woooo 19:18:34 elliott: you are a cocoonspirator to the repo. 19:18:55 `cocoonspirator? 19:18:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cocoonspirator?: not found 19:18:58 Right 19:19:12 `? cocoonspirator 19:19:14 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in catterpillar silk 19:19:32 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:19:35 ~duck catterpillar 19:19:35 --- No relevant information 19:19:38 ~duck caterpillar 19:19:39 A trademark used for a tractor equipped with continuous chain treads. 19:19:54 `learn A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 19:19:59 I knew that. 19:23:13 `complain in general 19:23:15 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:27:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:33:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:48:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:13:20 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:28:59 `bf +++, 20:29:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found 20:29:03 Aww 20:33:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:35:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:36:50 !bf +++, 20:36:52 No output. 20:37:46 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]. 20:37:46 No output. 20:37:59 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 20:37:59 ​@ 20:38:05 Roujo: ↑ 20:38:09 !bf [+]+[[+]+] 20:38:17 Woooo 20:38:36 stop breaking poor bots, you bully. 20:38:45 But it's fun! \o/ 20:38:45 | 20:38:45 /| 20:42:57 ^bf [+]+[[+]+] 20:43:00 ...out of time! 20:43:13 The initial [+] does nothing, incidentally. 20:43:47 Well, it does something if the starting cell has something in it 20:43:55 But it doesn't. 20:43:58 I'm not assuming anything here =P 20:44:08 So I take it EgoBot doesn't have any time limit 20:44:21 You ran it as a self-contained program, you can assume an empty tape. 20:44:22 !bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 20:44:22 ​@ 20:44:26 ooooh 20:44:38 fizzie: I don't want to assume anything 20:44:45 I don't even want to assume that I don't assume anything 20:44:53 I just go and see what happens 20:45:10 Preparing to any eventuality, until death does me part 20:45:18 You can't assume that it's going to happen the same way again, though. 20:45:19 Roujo: cf. “Sussman attains enlightenment”. 20:45:22 ±5%, 19 times out of 20 20:45:35 boily: Nani? 20:45:44 Roujo: you're a bit too early. wait for November's elections :D 20:45:49 Roujo: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html 20:46:15 (also, 漢字を勉強して!) 20:46:16 Ah, yes 20:46:20 Koans 20:46:21 FUN 20:46:30 I don't read kanji, boily my dear 20:46:39 Roujo: justement. étudie! :D 20:46:56 WELL CRAP 20:47:05 But whyyyy 20:47:09 there are like, what... only a few of them? it doesn't take no time at all, I swear. 20:47:11 Huh; I *thought* EgoBot had some sort of a message on timeout, but it indeed appears not true. 20:47:17 =P 20:47:33 there's only like, three alphabets, what is even the issue 20:47:36 boily: I'm doing perfectly fine with romanization =P 20:47:52 Although I've been wanting to learn for the longest time 20:48:26 I think Japanese is easier than Haskell. 20:48:51 Rofl 20:56:35 time to go brave the weather déchaînée and try to get back home safely. 20:56:39 ~metar CYUL 20:56:39 CYUL 102047Z 11003KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR FEW008 OVC011 19/18 A2994 RMK SF2SF6 SLP139 DENSITY ALT 500FT 20:56:56 well. 20:57:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:57:04 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:58:03 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:14:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:22:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:04 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:59:04 `run echo cat 21:59:05 cat 21:59:13 `run echo Meow~~ > cat 21:59:18 No output. 21:59:20 `run echo cat 21:59:23 cat 21:59:26 D: 21:59:29 Oh 21:59:31 `run cat cat 21:59:33 Meow~~ 21:59:35 There 21:59:39 `run cat cat > cat 21:59:42 cat: cat: input file is output file 21:59:50 >=( 21:59:56 `run cat cat | cat > cat 21:59:58 No output. 21:59:59 THERE 22:00:24 Wait 22:00:25 `run cat cat 22:00:27 No output. 22:00:28 D: 22:00:36 `run echo Meow~~ > cat 22:00:40 No output. 22:00:45 `run cat cat | echo > cat 22:00:50 No output. 22:00:51 `run cat cat 22:00:53 No output. 22:00:55 ... 22:00:56 D: 22:01:00 `run echo Meow~~ > cat 22:01:04 No output. 22:01:06 `run cat cat 22:01:07 Meow~~ 22:01:16 `run mv cat run 22:01:20 No output. 22:01:23 `run cat run 22:01:25 Meow~~ 22:01:33 `run cat run | echo > cat 22:01:37 No output. 22:01:38 -!- itsy has joined. 22:01:41 `run cat run 22:01:43 Meow~~ 22:01:45 `run cat cat 22:01:47 No output. 22:01:49 D: 22:01:57 `run cat run > cat 22:02:01 No output. 22:02:03 `run cat cat 22:02:05 Meow~~ 22:02:10 `run cat cat | echo 22:02:11 No output. 22:02:13 D: 22:02:14 Why 22:02:23 -!- tromp has joined. 22:02:29 `run echo Meow~~ > Meow~~ 22:02:33 No output. 22:02:38 `run cat Meow~~ 22:02:40 Meow~~ 22:02:45 `run cat Meow~~ | echo 22:02:46 No output. 22:02:48 WHY 22:02:49 WHY OH WHY 22:02:56 `run cat run | cat 22:02:57 Meow~~ 22:03:06 `run cat run | cat > run 22:03:10 No output. 22:03:16 There 22:03:27 Does what it's supposed to do 22:03:31 Doesn't do it right 22:03:46 Does it in a completely weird and all kinds of wrong-way 22:03:48 But eh 22:03:48 Does it 22:03:56 `complain POULET 22:03:57 Complaint filed. Thank you. 22:05:16 -!- Bike has joined. 22:05:22 -!- carado has joined. 22:10:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:15:07 Roujo: The > in the pipeline truncates the output file before the first part has time to run, possibly. 22:16:50 `run echo foo > foo; (cat foo; echo bar) | sh -c "cat > foo"; cat foo; rm foo # race conditions are fun 22:16:50 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 22:16:52 bar 22:16:55 `run echo foo > foo; (cat foo; echo bar) | sh -c "cat > foo"; cat foo; rm foo # race conditions are fun 22:16:57 foo \ bar 22:17:09 -!- Bike has joined. 22:17:36 There you go. Without the sh -c, that would be a consistent "bar" only. 22:18:48 And in `run cat run | cat > run the shell will open-and-truncate "run" as a part of preparing the pipeline, before exec'ing the "cat run". 22:19:47 You could make it work with `run cat run | cat | sponge run if sponge were installed on HackEgo, which it isn't. 22:20:33 what's sponge again? 22:22:46 reads stdin to memory then writes it to the file after reaching the end of input? 22:23:27 Yes. 22:25:19 `run echo foo > foo; (cat foo; echo bar) | (sleep 1; tee foo > /dev/null); cat foo; rm foo # poor man's sponge 22:25:22 foo \ bar 22:25:34 (Fits one pipe buffer's worth of stuff, and only if it's done in a second.) 22:26:26 (Maybe the subshell would already have meant that plain (sleep 1; cat > foo) could've been okay.) 22:30:05 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 22:31:34 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:32:00 -!- augur has joined. 22:38:43 Bike: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Fj0_IJ4PWQg/Ui93TmpTK_I/AAAAAAAAASc/NQW8D6N19_g/s1600/Untitled-1.png 22:39:00 hurk 22:40:10 augh 22:40:29 I would have preferred goatse 22:40:39 XD 22:40:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:42:43 uh should i click that link at work or no 22:43:02 I'm sure some could categorize it as "obscene material". 22:43:09 it depends how much your boss hates social media 22:43:14 But perhaps it's not obvious-at-a-glance. 22:43:15 *on 22:43:31 heh 22:43:47 i think one of the little icons should be goatse 22:44:28 Whoever made it seems to also have run out of imagination, because the left half of the little icons is just a copy of the right half. 22:47:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:54:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:55:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:24:19 I'll just stick with `run cat run 23:24:25 But thanks, fizzie =) 23:31:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:39:23 `unicode PILE OF POO 23:39:25 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'PILE OF POO'" 23:39:46 `unicode INVISIBLE TIMES 23:39:48 ​⁢ 23:40:06 deep 23:40:20 `unicode COMBINING PENIS ABOVE 23:40:21 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'COMBINING PENIS ABOVE'" 23:40:38 `unicode ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR HORSE DUNG 23:40:40 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ALCHEMICAL SYMBOL FOR HORSE DUNG'" 23:40:48 guess it has an old version of the spec :( 23:41:11 "Comments: fimus equinus" 23:43:13 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 23:43:14 ​ﯹ 23:43:30 `unicode LEFTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN ABOVE RIGHTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN 23:43:32 ​⥧ 23:43:40 `unicode CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY 23:43:42 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'CLOCKWISE RIGHTWARDS AND LEFTWARDS OPEN CIRCLE ARROWS WITH CIRCLED ONE OVERLAY'" 23:43:57 `unicode GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI AND PROSGEGRAMMENI 23:43:59 ​ᾏ 23:44:10 that's the first of these I can actually render (v. poorly) 23:44:18 I guess not including INVISIBLE TIMES 23:44:55 can successfully not render invisible times 23:45:37 `unicode OX 23:45:38 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'OX'" 2013-09-11: 00:14:10 Me too =P 00:14:19 The rest was just squares 00:14:24 Apart from INVISIBLE TIMES 00:14:33 ùnicode GOAT 00:14:35 ... 00:14:39 `unicode GOAT 00:14:41 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GOAT'" 00:14:50 `unicode GOAT RULER OF THE DEEP 00:14:51 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GOAT RULER OF THE DEEP'" 00:14:58 `unicode TRÉMA 00:14:59 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'TR\xc3\x89MA'" 00:15:03 `unicode UNICODE 00:15:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UNICODE'" 00:15:08 `unicode HAT 00:15:11 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HAT'" 00:15:42 `unicode A 00:15:43 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'A'" 00:15:52 `unicode LATIN LETTER 00:15:53 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'LATIN LETTER \x16'" 00:15:58 `unicode LATIN LETTER B 00:16:00 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'LATIN LETTER B'" 00:16:02 DAMMIT 00:16:14 `unicode GREEK LETTER CAPITAL PHI 00:16:15 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK LETTER CAPITAL PHI'" 00:16:18 ... 00:16:24 I don't even know what I'm doing, tbh 00:16:31 `unicode CAT 00:16:32 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'CAT'" 00:16:35 `unicode NOT CAT 00:16:37 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'NOT CAT'" 00:16:39 `unicode UNDEFINED 00:16:41 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UNDEFINED'" 00:16:42 `unicode NULL 00:16:44 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'NULL'" 00:16:55 `unicode '; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; -- 00:16:56 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name ''; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --'" 00:17:01 Now that's just sad 00:17:02 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 00:17:15 `unicode "; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; -- 00:17:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: 'undefined character name \'"; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS; --\'' 00:18:46 lool 00:20:47 Apparently, SQL injection attacks don't affect unicode characters 00:20:50 Go figure 00:57:13 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Changing server). 00:59:00 -!- coppro has joined. 01:27:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:29:40 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:55:16 thank god not everything involving "table" uses sql 02:03:54 U+110E4 BOBBY TABLES 02:06:28 I meant, U+110E48 02:16:28 https://twitter.com/nottechmeme it's beautiful 02:22:46 hah 02:25:59 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:05 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:05:04 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:21:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:37:58 -!- Bike has joined. 04:00:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:01:05 @messages-loud 04:01:05 boily said 15h 24m 40s ago: I think the alise mystery got leaked yesterday. but, I happily have a git repo backing the whole thing in case the Revelation was False, and it can be easily unmerged. 04:01:05 boily said 15h 23m 58s ago: that wasn't an hesitation. it was... uh... only a pause. yeah. I was taking a breath, there. y'know, asthma and all that sort of thing... 04:01:54 @tell boily Good, good. Well, not the asthma. 04:01:55 Consider it noted. 04:05:32 What’s the alise mystery? 04:06:44 who alise is, of course. 04:06:56 `quote alise 04:06:58 91) alise: why internet is like wtf \ 95) like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 98) alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia \ 102) in soviet russia, fungot fnords the state. 04:07:42 oerjan: it looks vaguely serious but crap... lost my program? ( and vice-versa) 04:08:03 fungot: it's ok the su got disbanded anyway. 04:08:03 oerjan: no nothing. but is it dynamically extensible, which interactive operation is a subset 04:15:52 What’s the Revelation and what’s the “whole thing” you have in git? 04:16:08 the revelation is the answer to the alise mystery 04:22:20 ion: the git thing is presumably the revisions to his wisdom/quote formatting 04:22:31 see topic. 04:25:37 boily is missing so many more revelations 04:25:39 Or at least one 04:25:58 `pastequotes uorygl 04:26:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14740 04:26:04 the apocalypse of john 04:26:17 `pastequotes ihope 04:26:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10538 04:26:39 uh 04:27:44 i don't think he's used ihope since the quote database started. 04:28:07 `pastequotes warrigal 04:28:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28897 04:28:41 At least one of those is not #esoteric 04:29:26 the aftran one, i presume 04:30:17 it's no. 65, i guess there remains more of the old quotes than i thought. 04:30:41 " There is Haskell program “pandoc” to convert formats, so I 04:30:41 make “panchess” which is the similar thing but for chess." 04:30:53 How many chess formats are there? 04:31:10 pgn, anything else? 04:31:22 algebraic notation? 04:31:39 well there's the algebraic one, the old british whatchamacallit, expanded algebraic whatchamacallit... 04:31:58 and being zzo38, i assume he knows other obscure ones. 04:32:58 probably including for chess variants. 04:33:15 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:33:28 -!- Bike has joined. 04:33:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation#Notation_for_telegraph_and_radio fascinating 04:36:12 * oerjan wondered why the section link didn't work, then realized he'd included "fascinating" 04:39:15 `? mojibake 04:39:16 mojibake _ÌÌÌ°_ÌÌ̦̻ͭͭͬÌÍÌÌÍ¡_ͧÍÌÍÌ­_ÍÍÍͧÍÌÌ̯Í̬̬̦̯_ÌÌÌͨÌÌ´Í 04:45:55 `pastelogs ^`complain 04:46:33 did i kill HackEgo 04:46:36 `echo hi 04:46:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8661 04:46:39 hi 04:47:08 hm i suspect ` must be something in regex 04:47:24 wait no 04:47:28 `pastelogs complain 04:47:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:47:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16103 04:47:41 i think that will give too much 04:48:01 but i realized ^ is the problem. 04:48:13 i just wanted to see if it was empty. 04:48:31 buggy, you mean. 04:48:59 `pastelogs > [`]complain 04:49:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15733 04:49:29 ah perfect 04:50:18 `run cat $(which complain) 04:50:19 except for it containing a complaint about me. sheesh, the nerve... 04:50:20 echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 04:50:27 `cat complaints 04:50:28 No output. 04:50:31 why! 04:50:38 hm... 04:50:48 `complain complaints is empty 04:50:49 Complaint filed. Thank you. 04:50:52 `cat complaints 04:50:53 No output. 04:50:57 `run echo test >>test; cat test 04:51:01 echo bash- >> /dev/null \ test 04:51:02 `cat bin/complaints 04:51:04 wc -l complaints 04:51:10 oops 04:51:11 wat 04:51:13 `rm tst 04:51:15 rm: cannot remove `tst': No such file or directory 04:51:16 `rm test 04:51:16 `?complaints 04:51:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?complaints: not found 04:51:20 `complaints 04:51:20 No output. 04:51:21 0 complaints 04:51:22 `run echo test >>test; cat test 04:51:26 test 04:52:47 `run ls -l complaints 04:52:49 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Sep 6 22:35 complaints -> /dev/null 04:52:54 ... 04:53:01 OAKY 04:53:06 ha. 04:54:03 well that _is_ tradional, i guess. 04:55:20 oh well `pastelogs exists. 04:58:59 @tell Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended 04:58:59 Consider it noted. 05:02:36 @tell Roujo Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended 05:02:36 Consider it noted. 05:03:03 `complain @tell _still_ doesn't strip <>s from nicks. or does it? 05:03:05 Complaint filed. Thank you. 05:03:14 @tell FOR SCIENCE! 05:03:14 Consider it noted. 05:03:19 boo 05:04:23 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Roujo. 05:07:39 apparently google translate thinks t'aimerais trop ça is lithuanian. 05:09:22 @ask boily What's "t'aimerais trop ça", google translate seems clueless 05:09:22 Consider it noted. 05:12:21 i see the hexham conspiracy thickens. 05:13:17 `? hexham 05:13:18 Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico 05:14:10 `slist 05:14:12 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:15:21 hay chi hua hua 05:16:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:17:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:38:19 discovery: my school has an OED subscription 06:38:32 there goes 20 hours of my life 06:49:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:00:24 Can you read the whole thing in 20 hours? 07:00:41 (We have one too.) 07:05:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:17:27 no, but I imagine that's roughly how much time I'll waste with it 07:19:26 -!- shubshub has joined. 07:19:32 heyyy 07:20:40 `relcome shubshub 07:20:44 ​shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:21:17 I've been here before lol 07:21:25 good, good 07:34:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:34:59 -!- shubshub has left. 07:35:12 -!- shubshub has joined. 07:35:17 -!- shubshub has left. 07:37:09 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:38:18 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:46:30 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:02:44 fizzie: fatal fungot failure! 08:05:42 Oh no. 08:05:47 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:06:15 (Restarting fungot during a meeting: so bad?) 08:07:54 -!- fungot has joined. 08:08:39 ^celebrate 08:08:39 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 08:08:40 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 08:08:40 /| c.c |\ /< | | /| c.c >\ | /| |/´\ c.c /| 08:08:40 (_|¯'¯|_) /`\ 08:08:40 (_| |_) 08:08:55 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:10:59 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:28:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:29:57 -!- Bike has joined. 08:48:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:49:07 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:50:41 -!- Bike has joined. 08:50:53 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:00:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:06:50 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 09:11:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:27:50 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:30:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:34:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:37:32 -!- augur has joined. 09:47:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:15:19 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 10:36:48 -!- Bike has joined. 11:04:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:05:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:06:34 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:07:31 -!- audioPhil has joined. 11:12:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:15:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:15:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:19:23 -!- Bike has joined. 11:19:36 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:32:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:33:37 -!- yorick has joined. 11:36:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:36:04 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:36:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:37:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:38:23 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:52:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:53:55 -!- Bike has joined. 11:59:34 -!- carado has joined. 12:07:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:21:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:26:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:29:08 -!- boily has joined. 12:29:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:31:45 good stupid morning! 12:32:50 @tell oerjan «t'aimerais trop ça.» → “you'd like that way too much”. 12:32:50 Consider it noted. 12:33:25 Hello, boily 12:35:36 bien le bonjour, Taneb. 12:36:31 I got my copy of Ryan North's To Be Or Not To Be today 12:37:55 as seen through the Amazon, it looks very interesting! 12:38:37 -!- Bike has joined. 12:41:12 good mornike. 12:41:54 Roujo-san gokigen'yō. 12:53:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:58:01 -!- nycs has joined. 13:01:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:03:15 -!- zt has joined. 13:07:47 Hm. 2.3215e+54 is a curious value for a probability density function to have. 13:09:09 fizzie: dirac pulse? 13:09:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan fuck you canada 13:10:06 long live Regina! 13:10:58 boily: It's an EM-estimated GMM, but I think there was some forced clamping in the training data, so there's probably quite the sharp peak at the clamping edge. 13:11:53 bleh. couldn't you smooth that? 13:12:01 s/couldn/can/ 13:12:49 I guess, though I'm not sure how much it matters. 13:14:16 The variances of the (8) Gaussian components seem to be 0.0041, 0.0002, 0.0012, 0.0001, 0.0339, 1e-8, 0.0090 and 0.0480. No points for guessing which component mean equals the clamping value. 13:15:56 «cachez ce 1e-8 que je ne saurais voir.» 13:19:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:21:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:36:35 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:36:59 -!- augur has joined. 13:39:19 `pastewisdom 13:39:21 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:42:49 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:02:32 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:03:12 `complain `pastewisdom doesn't actually past anything 14:03:13 Complaint filed. Thank you. 14:03:25 `complain s/past/paste/g 14:03:27 Complaint filed. Thank you. 14:03:35 `complain s/pastee/paste/g 14:03:36 Complaint filed. Thank you. 14:03:48 @messages-loud 14:03:49 oerjan said 9h 1m 12s ago: Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended 14:04:25 @tell oerjan Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended <-- Are you a soft drink? Didn't think so. Then you don't know the things that I've seen... 14:04:25 Consider it noted. 14:04:40 Also, wooo, I have voice again 14:05:26 boily: Roujo-san gokigen'yō. <-- Nani? =P 14:08:11 Roujo: ごきげんよう 《ご機嫌よう; 御機嫌よう》 (int) (1) (uk) how do you do?; nice to meet you; (2) adieu; farewell; bon voyage 14:09:08 So... "Oh hai"? 14:11:29 Roujo: quite the formal version of the plebeian “oh hai”, but yes. 14:11:51 `run cat cat 14:11:53 Meow~~ 14:12:13 I'd say "Ciao", boily and Roujo, or "Good day" 14:13:02 boily: Say I want to learn me a japanese for great good 14:13:05 Where should I start? 14:13:31 Roujo: if we ever meet, I could lend you my schoolbooks. 14:13:33 `run echo " lala" 14:13:34 ​ lala 14:14:09 boily, Roujo, do you have a Taneb/elliott thing going on 14:14:16 `run echo " He's also a NaniDispenser." >> wisdom/boily 14:14:20 Taneb: SURE 14:14:20 No output. 14:14:22 ie. live in the same place but have never met 14:14:30 It's even worse 14:14:46 boily is the brother of one of my friends 14:15:00 And yeah, we both live in Montréal 14:15:03 Did you find this channel independently? 14:15:16 Yeah 14:15:20 :O 14:15:21 affirmative. 14:15:23 I think I just followed ais523 in here 14:15:34 Either ais523 or oerjan, can't remember 14:15:43 I got here from the wiki, and elliott's been here pretty much forever 14:15:49 I spent a couple of week here before realizing who boily was 14:16:21 `run echo << wisdom/boily 14:16:22 bash: warning: here-document at line 0 delimited by end-of-file (wanted `wisdom/boily') 14:16:27 Well cra 14:16:27 p 14:16:34 `run echo < wisdom/boily 14:16:35 No output. 14:16:39 ... 14:16:43 I don't know what that actually did 14:17:11 `? boily 14:17:13 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. \ He's also a NaniDispenser. 14:17:22 Well crap 14:17:41 `run sudo s/ / /g | wisdom/boily 14:17:43 bash: wisdom/boily: Permission denied \ bash: sudo: command not found 14:17:54 Don't sudo it, it's on root anyway 14:17:56 s/sudo/sed/ much? 14:18:12 boily: You seem to be implying that I know what I'm doing 14:18:33 let me re`learn myself there... :P 14:18:44 `run sed s/sudo/sed/g | sudo s/ / /g | wisdom/boily 14:18:58 `learn boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser. 14:19:08 I think I broke something 14:19:23 `? tanebventions 14:19:47 bash: wisdom/boily: Permission denied \ bash: sudo: command not found 14:19:50 I knew that. 14:19:51 Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, and Go. 14:20:00 Wow. That took a while. 14:20:43 `run sed s/(.)/\1/g 14:20:45 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `sed s/(.)/\1/g' 14:21:00 OH WELL 14:23:22 `run echo poulet | sed -i 's/(.)/\1/g' 14:23:24 sed: -e expression #1, char 10: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS 14:23:53 `run echo poulet | sed -i 's/(.)/\0/g' 14:23:54 sed: no input files 14:23:58 beuh là. 14:24:20 `run freedom run 14:24:21 ​♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 14:54:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:58:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:13:40 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:14:27 ~metar CYUL 15:14:28 CYUL 111500Z 22011G16KT 10SM FEW006 FEW240 27/22 A2991 RMK CF1CI2 CF TR CF TR SLP127 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 15:14:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:14:45 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:16:02 Roujo: I'm cumulating today's METARs at CYUL. so far I have 7 entries: http://pastebin.ca/2448292 15:16:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:16:17 Nice 15:16:26 So the ceiling is going up 15:16:38 Which is pretty cool if you're 2k feet tall 15:17:42 @messages-loud 15:17:42 boily said 2h 44m 51s ago: «t'aimerais trop ça.» → “you'd like that way too much”. 15:17:42 Roujo said 1h 13m 16s ago: Oooh, it even has water <-- soft drinks without water are not recommended <-- Are you a soft drink? Didn't think so. Then you don't know the things that I've seen... 15:18:28 Roujo: the layer at 24 000' is thickening. air pressure is still quite wobbly. I guess we're set to have interesting storms. 15:22:23 `complain `pastewisdom doesn't actually past anything <-- that's a feature of `paste which i may be the one who programmed. 15:22:32 `cat bin/pastewisdom 15:22:34 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 15:22:43 Well that's just wrong 15:22:46 ok maybe not 15:22:48 It doesn't actually paste anything 15:22:52 Much less wisdom 15:22:55 fine.. 15:23:19 `run cat cat >> bin/pastewisdom 15:23:21 There 15:23:23 No output. 15:23:30 will you bloody stop that 15:23:38 `cat cat 15:23:39 Meow~~ 15:23:51 `pastewisdom 15:23:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ \ /hackenv/bin/pastewisdom: 3: Meow~~: not found 15:23:57 Oh 15:24:06 I thought it was echo Meow~~ 15:24:07 But yeah 15:24:12 I'll fix it 15:24:16 `revert 15:24:19 Done. 15:24:24 `pastewisdom 15:24:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 15:24:29 There you go~~ 15:24:45 `url wisdom 15:24:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/wisdom 15:25:06 right, that's why it doesn't use `paste directly. 15:25:17 Good call 15:25:25 `? irrelevant info 15:25:27 KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW 15:25:35 it would then only show the directory listing rather than having links. 15:25:51 Roujo: ỹõũ ãr̃ẽ ãb̃ũs̃ĩñg̃ t̃h̃ẽ t̃ĩl̃d̃ẽ t̃õd̃ãỹ. 15:26:06 boily: And you just took the crown =P 15:26:42 oh, my bro just commented on the wisdom PDF. his reply: «Weeeeeirdooooooo. 15:26:44 » 15:27:39 insufficiently nerdy brother, check 15:28:15 and this is supposedly the board game geek too 15:28:23 iirc 15:29:36 Roujo: do you witness that? someone not believing in Pouti's nerdiness. 15:30:17 boily: hey he doesn't approve of the wisdom PDF, what more proof do i need? 15:30:30 -!- zt has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:30:56 oerjan: he was probably commenting on the fact that I LaTeXed the whole thing, knowing him. 15:31:33 he disapproves of latex? your brother is the anti-knuth! 15:31:47 (as a proper little brother, he has this playful antagonistic stance with me, like not wearing an orange shirt on Friday purposefully) 15:32:03 that sounds very antagonistic. 15:32:15 As an elder brother myself, I can sympathize 15:32:37 i'm sure this orange shirt thing is very important to the quebecois somehow. 15:33:17 darn i forgot the accent again. also which one it is, and possibly where to put it. 15:33:31 quebecöis 15:33:39 sounds good 15:33:45 Antagonistic Québécois is Antagonistic 15:34:16 what there's actually supposed to be two? 15:34:30 oerjan: well, yeah? what's the problem? 15:34:57 the accents are breeding and taking over the world? 15:35:30 I don't knöw what you'rè talkíng aböût 15:35:41 -> 15:36:55 s/->/-́>̌/ 15:38:17 -!- zt has joined. 15:39:07 oh nô 15:41:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:43:27 ok so what does nani mean 15:44:02 oerjan: what. 15:44:23 boily: Roujo-san gokigen'yō. <-- Nani? =P 15:44:30 `? boily 15:44:32 oerjan: what. 15:44:33 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser. 15:44:44 those. 15:44:49 it means what. 15:44:54 oh. 15:45:54 thank you mr. abbott. 15:47:50 Ah, yes 15:47:53 But then, who's on nani? 15:49:09 ah google translate can give suggestions if you write the romaji 15:51:29 that's the boring way. it's much better to reenact old sketches, I say. 15:51:45 quite. 15:52:23 just installed vim2hs. automatic indentation, integration with syntastic and hlint, folding of top-level declarations... 15:52:46 `run cat oerjan > oerjan2thereturnofoerjan | /dev/null 15:52:50 bash: /dev/null: Permission denied \ cat: oerjan: No such file or directory 15:53:00 What do you mean I can't pipe stuff to the void 15:53:02 that thing is magical 15:53:41 who else thinks Roujo should learn a little more shell before experimenting with HackEgo. 15:53:54 oerjan: I vote NAY. 15:54:00 darn. 15:56:15 oerjan: What use is a bot if you can't fuck up its filesystem every once in a while 15:56:50 i'm talking about fucking up fucking up the filesystem here. 15:57:07 `ls 15:57:08 a.c \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ bsdmreclist \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ god \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan2thereturnofoerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ random \ run \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ 15:57:15 On a more serious note, I know I still have much to learn re: shell scripts, but I'm figuring I might as well learn it here, where people can help me. Worst case, I just `revert the mess I made. 15:57:59 `cat bsd* 15:58:01 cat: bsd*: No such file or directory 15:58:03 `run cat bsd* 15:58:05 Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 15:58:38 `run ls wisdom/b??mreclist 15:58:40 ls: cannot access wisdom/b??mreclist: No such file or directory 15:58:49 ohhh that's why there were two 15:58:49 `run ls wisdom/b*reclist 15:58:51 ls: cannot access wisdom/b*reclist: No such file or directory 15:58:53 im dyslexic 15:58:59 oh right 15:59:05 `cat bds* 15:59:06 cat: bds*: No such file or directory 15:59:09 `run cat bds* 15:59:10 ​* oerjan swats quintopia -----### 15:59:21 `run cat bdsmreclist bsdmreclist > bdsmreclist. 15:59:25 No output. 15:59:34 ...you know that doesn't work. 15:59:38 `rm bdsmreclist bsdmreclist 15:59:40 rm: cannot remove `bdsmreclist bsdmreclist': No such file or directory 15:59:53 `rm bdsmreclist 15:59:56 `rm bsdmreclist 15:59:57 No output. 16:00:00 No output. 16:00:03 `mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist 16:00:05 mv: missing destination file operand after `bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 16:00:14 wat 16:00:20 I... what 16:00:23 `run mv bdsmreclist. bdsmreclist 16:00:26 No output. 16:00:27 `cat bdsmreclist 16:00:28 ​* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits 16:00:29 Phantom_Hoover: stop making the same error i keep doing 16:00:35 perfect 16:00:36 Oh 16:00:40 `mv vs `run mv 16:00:41 mv: missing destination file operand after `vs `run mv' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 16:00:45 Cool, cool 16:00:52 `run cat oerjan 16:00:53 cat: oerjan: No such file or directory 16:00:59 `run touch oerjan 16:01:02 No output. 16:01:18 Now you exist! =D 16:01:28 `ls oerjan 16:01:29 oerjan 16:01:44 hm it supports empty files now? 16:02:04 it's directories it doesn't do 16:02:25 `rm oerjan 16:02:29 No output. 16:02:30 `run mkdir oerjan 16:02:32 No output. 16:02:35 There. Happy&? 16:02:49 `ls oerjan 16:02:51 No output. 16:03:01 `ls -ld oerjan 16:03:03 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 16:03:07 `run ls -ld oerjan 16:03:09 drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Sep 11 16:02 oerjan 16:03:21 elliott: i think you are mistaken 16:03:34 `ls 16:03:36 a.c \ a.out \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ god \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ oerjan2thereturnofoerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ random \ run \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisd 16:04:04 `run rm oerjan2* a.out 16:04:08 No output. 16:04:30 `cat god 16:04:32 No output. 16:04:36 `rm god 16:04:39 No output. 16:04:41 D: 16:04:49 `cat run 16:04:51 No output. 16:04:54 `rm run 16:04:57 No output. 16:05:06 `cat random 16:05:08 ​WC`\R:6`nqq zi2JOĄSgKSp2"af%s{}bԤca;8螧W[cq ƃZ,i*`(o3֮kS'Xl+!K:-A$p%8C&«* X$[_4J0O)H~lNvkhTH,IRw }mjÈ 16:05:14 `ls -l random 16:05:15 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 16:05:19 `run ls -l random 16:05:21 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 499 Aug 19 17:48 random 16:05:26 `rm random 16:05:30 No output. 16:05:32 `ls 16:05:33 a.c \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ Meow~~ \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisdom \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:05:34 oerjan the Cleaner 16:05:40 `cat a.c 16:05:41 main() { foo:; int x = 3; goto foo; } 16:05:46 `rm a.c 16:05:50 No output. 16:06:08 `run mv bdsmreclist wisdom 16:06:11 No output. 16:06:16 `cat cat 16:06:17 Meow~~ 16:06:21 `rm cat 16:06:22 D: 16:06:24 No output. 16:06:27 The cat! 16:06:30 `cat Meow~~ 16:06:31 Meow~~ 16:06:38 `rm Meow~~ 16:06:42 No output. 16:06:43 `ls 16:06:48 bi \ bin \ canary \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ raise_them \ share \ src \ test \ testing \ wisdom \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:07:19 `cat raise_them 16:07:21 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:07:34 `cat ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:07:36 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:07:43 `run cat raise_them | rm 16:07:46 rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 16:07:48 Awww 16:08:00 Why doesn't that work? 16:08:12 `run fgrep 'ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ' wisdom/* 16:08:14 wisdom/solain:ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ wisdom/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ:ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:08:27 `run rm raise_them ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 16:08:31 No output. 16:08:33 Yeah, that was to mess with solain a bit 16:08:36 Fun times 16:08:49 the wisdom ones can stay 16:09:00 `cat testing 16:09:02 Test *test* test 16:09:05 `cat test 16:09:06 test 16:09:13 `run rm test* 16:09:16 `ls 16:09:18 No output. 16:09:19 bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ gg \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 16:09:30 `rmdir oerjan 16:09:32 rmdir: failed to remove `oerjan': Directory not empty 16:09:38 wat 16:09:41 `ls oerjan 16:09:43 cat 16:10:02 `cat oerjan/cat 16:10:03 Meow~~ 16:10:14 `ls share 16:10:15 awesome \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 16:10:30 `run mv oerjan/cat share; rmdir oerjan 16:10:34 No output. 16:10:36 `cat gg 16:10:38 test 16:10:40 `rm gg 16:10:43 No output. 16:10:49 `cat hi-bool.bf 16:10:50 01001000 H \ "'""'""".> \ 01100101 e \ "''""'"'.> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 00100000 \ ""'""""".> \ 01010111 W \ "'"'"'''.> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 01110010 r \ "'''""'".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01100100 d \ "''""'"".> \ 00100001 \ ""'""""'.> \ 00001010 \ """"'"'".> 16:11:03 `rm hi-bool.bf 16:11:06 `cat share/radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* 16:11:06 No output. 16:11:08 `ls 16:11:10 bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ OUMF \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 16:11:10 http://50.117.26.26:9903/Live | (#1 - 0/500) MitamineLab 16:11:43 oerjan: you realise the irony of the botspam here? :P 16:11:48 `cat OUMF 16:11:49 No output. 16:11:56 `rm OUMF 16:11:59 No output. 16:12:17 `ls -ld oerjan 16:12:18 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 16:12:23 `run ls -ld oerjan 16:12:25 drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Sep 11 16:11 oerjan 16:12:31 `rmdir oerjan 16:12:32 rmdir: failed to remove `oerjan': Directory not empty 16:12:50 `ls oerjan 16:12:52 cat 16:12:56 `ls share 16:12:58 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 16:13:06 `run rm -rf oerjan 16:13:10 No output. 16:13:11 `ls 16:13:13 bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 16:13:35 ok enough for now 16:13:51 such clean 16:15:30 well i think the top directory listing should fit on one line so people can see what's in the directories below. 16:15:59 and it tends to fill up with junk after a while. 16:16:07 True ^^ 16:16:29 At least I can still `run cat cat 16:16:36 Which is all I'm asking, really 16:17:19 ...didn't i remove the cat :( 16:17:35 `run cat cat 16:17:36 Meow~~ 16:21:31 Why doesn't that work? <-- because rm takes arguments, not input 16:21:34 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 16:21:34 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:21:34 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 16:21:34 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:21:38 oerjan: Oh 16:21:42 -!- conehead has joined. 16:21:54 (you may want to check out xargs) 16:23:56 actually, you don't want that but _if_ you found a situation where you need to turn input into arguments, you would. 16:26:22 Roujo: | makes the output of the first command into the input of the second. 16:27:55 I see ^^ 16:28:12 it's one of unix's great inventions. 16:28:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:31:13 the difference between `run and without run is a HackEgo thing, which makes it too easy to forget for those who know shell. :( 16:31:21 Ah =P 16:31:31 `run freedom run 16:31:32 ​♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 16:31:36 `freedom run 16:31:38 ​♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 16:31:54 Oh, right. Freedom doesn't take arguments, so it doesn't care, right? 16:32:06 `cat bin/freedom 16:32:07 echo ♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 16:32:11 yeah 16:32:15 Right 16:32:41 So basically, `command arg1 arg2 turns it into one argument that's "arg1 arg2"? 16:32:50 While `run command arg1 arg2 correctly handles the arguments 16:32:52 ? 16:32:53 yeah 16:32:58 Oh =P 16:33:07 well correctly according to shell convention. 16:33:46 it's so that HackEgo can have commands that treat their argument line however they want. 16:34:12 -!- Bike has joined. 16:34:21 otherwise you'd have to use shell escaping on everything. 16:35:27 `cat bin/run 16:35:28 echo run 16:35:38 that's not the actual implementation 16:35:55 `run is special cased so that it cannot be broken. 16:36:16 `run run 16:36:17 run 16:36:29 `cat /bin/run 16:36:30 cat: /bin/run: No such file or directory 16:36:44 'special cased' as in 'not in the filesystem' 16:36:47 `cat bin/cat 16:36:48 cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory 16:36:51 `cat /bin/cat 16:36:51 unfun fact: you can have either of `run and `revert be implemented in bin/, but both means you can break it irrecoverably 16:36:53 ​ELF............>.....@.....@.......@..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@.....̲......̲........ ....................`......`.....T.............. ...........(......(`.....(`............................ 16:36:55 (without Gregor's intervention) 16:37:11 Good thing that's not the case, then ^^ 16:38:02 Is there a way to determine who's using the shell? 16:38:17 That is, differentiate between me using a command and oerjan using it? 16:38:19 yes, you can look at the logs 16:38:25 From a command, I mean 16:38:27 elliott: well you cannot break just `run irrecoverably, i think. 16:38:28 yes, you can look at the logs 16:38:34 or wait 16:38:42 elliott: What do you mean? 16:38:47 oerjan: it is ok if you can break `run as long as you can `revert 16:38:54 you can grep the logs to see who's running the current command 16:39:00 it is ok if you can break `revert as long as you can `run the equivalent 16:39:05 Ah, cool. Thanks Bike 16:39:10 but if both break you can't do much. 16:39:13 see `list for an example 16:39:16 if we still have it, anyway 16:39:17 `list 16:39:22 no you fool 16:39:24 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 16:39:26 elliott: hm i was thinking you could `/bin/sh but of course that won't work due to just one argument. 16:39:30 Oh 16:39:32 'sup, guys 16:39:35 >_> 16:39:35 oerjan: maybe `/usr/bin/env 16:39:38 `/usr/bin/env ls --help 16:39:40 ​/usr/bin/env: ls --help: No such file or directory 16:39:42 list lists everyone who's ever run `list 16:39:43 aw. 16:39:52 no you're on the list!! forever!! 16:39:55 good job you fool 16:40:06 I'm in good company =P 16:40:10 tru dat 16:40:11 YOU FOOL 16:40:17 `list bike 16:40:20 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 16:40:22 ... 16:40:27 there you are 16:40:28 So... How does it work? 16:40:37 `run cat $(which list) 16:40:38 `run cat list 16:40:38 ​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 16:40:39 cat: list: No such file or directory 16:40:47 nice 16:40:51 Nice nice nice 16:41:09 that's gonna break when we hit 2020 16:41:10 tragic 16:41:20 So I can just grep the last command from IRC and act according to that 16:41:20 it won't break 16:41:24 it'll just attain perfection! 16:41:49 Roujo: beware of race conditions 16:41:49 `ls /var/irclogs 16:41:51 _ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-chess-variants \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _esoteric_shadow \ _\FRIends*foR*evEr\ \ _FRIends*foR*evEr \ _glogbot \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ _plof \ raw \ _scapegoat \ stalker.php \ _weaaM 16:42:09 elliott: looking at the logs won't work for commands in private btw 16:42:19 Well crap 16:42:43 Oh well =P 16:46:39 `head /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2013-09-11.txt 16:46:41 00:14:10: Me too =P \ 00:14:19: The rest was just squares \ 00:14:24: Apart from INVISIBLE TIMES \ 00:14:33: ùnicode GOAT \ 00:14:35: ... \ 00:14:39: `unicode GOAT \ 00:14:41: Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(un 16:47:26 elliott: actually you can fix it with `fetch, as long as that works. 16:47:40 oerjan: by doing `/bin/sh fixscript? 16:47:43 yeah 16:47:58 hmm so you could have every single command be in bin/ then, I suppose 16:48:03 just it'd be a fuss when people are idiots 16:49:26 * Roujo whistles innocently 16:49:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:49:39 Roujo: no, more idiots than that. 16:49:49 or did you just do something. 16:49:54 Nah =P 16:50:01 I just felt targetted 16:50:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 16:50:18 But yeah, I try not to break anything permanently 16:50:34 I mostly just put stuff in bin/ that overrides stuff in /bin/ 16:51:22 `` q 16:51:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 16:51:35 `run echo 'exec "$@"' >bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\` 16:51:39 No output. 16:51:40 `` echo hi | cat 16:51:42 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found 16:52:01 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec bash -c "$@"' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\` 16:52:05 No output. 16:52:05 `` echo hi | cat 16:52:07 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found 16:52:13 oh. 16:52:21 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec bash -c "$*"' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\` 16:52:25 No output. 16:52:26 `` echo hi | cat 16:52:27 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found 16:52:39 `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin\`; echo 'exec $*' >>bin/\`; chmod +x bin/\` 16:52:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:52:43 `` echo hi | cat 16:52:43 No output. 16:52:44 ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 1: exec: echo hi | cat: not found 16:52:47 `rm bin/` 16:52:49 I give up 16:52:51 No output. 16:53:07 `` 16:53:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found 16:53:13 Oh 16:53:17 You rm'd it 16:54:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:55:49 `revert 16:55:52 Done. 16:55:53 `cat bin/` 16:55:55 exec "$@" \ exec bash -c "$@" \ exec bash -c "$*" \ exec $* 16:56:00 fancy 16:56:43 `run echo 'exec bash -c "$1"' >bin/\` 16:56:47 No output. 16:57:01 ``echo hi | cat 16:57:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 16:57:12 `` echo hi | cat 16:57:12 `` echo hi |cat 16:57:13 hi 16:57:13 hi 17:00:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:00:26 the reflections on trusting trust thing is really annoying me atm 17:00:45 you know what #esoteric could plausibly do? a stack of languages that bootstraps a C compiler from x86 machine code 17:00:55 the dangers of reading proggit 17:00:56 with each individual stage being simple enough that the source code can be read to verify that there's no backdoor 17:01:02 oerjan: yeah, it's all over the place there 17:01:14 IMO it's a nonissue, but from-zero-to-C sounds like an interesting project anyway 17:01:25 back from lunch, and the ACS has significantly dropped. 17:01:26 Oh, the evil compiler thing? 17:01:29 especially because it's what the still-unfinished Underlambda was invented for 17:01:30 http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ [actual thesis] 17:01:39 um dissertation I guess 17:02:14 I've read it 17:02:59 it's more that I think the verifiable-stack thing would be an interesting project 17:03:09 it's not Reflections on Trusting Trust, if you're assuming it is; but I mainly linked it for others 17:03:17 it's the diverse double compiling thing, isn't it? 17:03:47 right 17:04:37 -!- monotone has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:05:21 also, you get really paranoid people who worry if maybe all the compilers currently in existence are compromised, with knowledge of each other to propagate it indefinitely 17:05:37 so theoretically there's a small security benefit from the zero-to-C thing 17:05:45 I guess the remaining potential issue would be a backdoor in the processor 17:06:01 you might want to synthesize your own processor in order to get around the issue 17:06:14 people should write their new projects without using any preprocessor directive. 17:06:16 but that's getting a little extreme, and what if there's a backdoor in the synthesis tools as well? 17:06:26 boily: you're worried about a trusting-trust attack on cpp? 17:06:41 ais523: me? oh, no. I just like people suffering when writing cpp. 17:06:41 What sort of path would 0->C take? 17:06:45 that would be rather easier than one against gcc, come to think of it 17:06:57 Taneb: I was thinking Forth -> Underlambda -> not sure 17:07:00 "From zero to c in 60 seconds." 17:07:14 maybe directly, Underlambda can be high-level when it feels like it 17:07:15 fizzie, that's ridiculous acceleration 17:07:28 ais523, is Underlambda spec available anywhere? 17:07:36 Taneb: no, because it isn't finished 17:07:40 > ['0'..'C'] 17:07:41 "0123456789:;<=>?@ABC" 17:07:44 but it was invented for these sort of purposes 17:07:52 think Underload with a bunch of extra commands added and no S 17:08:02 it was quite a strong influence on Snowflake, fwiw 17:08:30 it's hard for me to imagine concatenative languages without things like infra/ultra nowadays 17:08:32 s,\, fwiw, hth, 17:09:02 which allow you to conflate data manipulation commands and stack manipulation commands 17:10:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:14:46 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:24:10 ~duck concatenative 17:24:11 Software description: a Ruby DSL for concatenative programming (Ruby). 17:24:25 bleh. the horror. another ruby DSL. 17:26:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:29:26 that's probably not the best result, really 17:29:34 think Underload for what concatenative languages are normally like 17:29:42 or for a less esoteric example, Joy 17:29:54 I had forth in mind, but any reason to think more about underload is good. 17:30:34 in a way, befunge is also concatenative. well, in four ways. 17:31:06 it's not 100% concatenative because of g 17:31:15 just like Underload is not 100% pure functional because of S 17:32:15 that's the problem I have with IO actions that don't do nothing else than output data. 17:32:38 I mean, they're obviously not pure, but from a practical standpoint they're predictable and don't alter the state of the running program. 17:33:20 so, from mathematics "S" is evil, but from programming it's just plain old print. 17:34:10 we need to rewirte the universe over to get pure IO. 17:36:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:37:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:37:06 What would pure IO be? 17:37:43 From my understanding, pure means "with no side-effects", right? 17:38:36 what the heck is pure io 17:38:44 Exactly 17:39:02 Paging boily ^^ 17:39:12 chu là, chu là... 17:39:26 ^^ 17:39:27 oh 17:39:37 pure IO is something that doesn't exist in this Universe. we need a new one. 17:40:09 In a World... where IO has no Side Effects... where everything is Pure and hasn't been Tainted by Procedures... 17:40:22 charming 17:40:34 But doesn't IO pretty much imply that there's a side-effect somewhere? 17:40:36 =P 17:40:42 That is, whatever you wrote to? 17:40:45 depends on what you mean by IO i guess 17:40:54 depends on waht you mean by universe. 17:40:58 boily: oh, S is evil because it can distinguish between equivalent functions 17:40:58 Let's just consider the output part 17:41:14 If I write to a file, there's an obvious side-effect that the file is now bigger 17:41:39 Not having that side-effect implies that the file will be in the same state no matter how many times I call write("Hello world") 17:41:50 well... 17:41:51 Which kind of sounds impossible to me 17:42:07 you could have write(file,"Hello world") return the new state of the file 17:42:09 so you have to track the original source code of every bit of code 17:42:10 that sorta thing 17:42:27 But then it's not really a file, is it? It's just a state in memory. 17:42:33 you could use the Haskell cheat, and have your program output a description of how to interactively modify the universe 17:42:46 Roujo: what's the difference 17:43:17 I guess the difference would be that you don't have the old file anymore 17:43:30 Bike: write(file, "Bonjour tout le monde") is a uniqueness type. 17:43:30 File file2 = write(file, "Hello world") 17:43:43 your mom's a uniqueness type. 17:43:56 Roujo: so? 17:44:06 Hmm... 17:44:09 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:44:32 Well, you have to keep file around 17:44:36 Phantom_Hoover: are you unique? do you cheat with side-effects? what do you think of writing an apple pie? 17:44:41 Since you could use it again, I guess? 17:44:57 Then again, I'm not all that good at thinking the functional way 17:45:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:46:16 Are there even variables in pure functional languages? 17:46:27 I'm guessing that there aren't, but I'm not sure 17:46:35 there are, but they aren't what you're thinking about. 17:46:46 Well, they're not exactly variable, right? 17:46:56 Roujo: in the function \x -> x * x, the value of "x" in the functional body is variable 17:47:08 Okay 17:47:09 "variable" doesn't mean "is explicitly altered" 17:47:26 It just means "can take different values", right? 17:47:29 just that it's not always the same value. "varying", if you wil 17:47:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_(mathematics) 17:47:33 Got it 17:47:38 Right, math 17:48:08 Okay 17:48:09 Roujo: for parallel programming, you can have something that looks like a variable, acts like a variable, but in essence is not. it's more like message passing. 17:48:23 more of a duck 17:48:25 So you have a file you want to write to 17:48:44 write(read("myfile"), "Hello world") 17:48:53 Which would return... a new file object? 17:48:59 well, that's one way 17:49:11 in haskell you instead of "doing" IO return a "thing that does IO", like ais said 17:49:16 But then if I call read("myfile") again, the file isn't the same, right? 17:49:18 Oh 17:49:24 Is that what a monad is? 17:49:30 no. 17:49:32 Heh 17:49:32 no. 17:49:43 I heard about monads, I just don't know what they are =P 17:49:51 Anyway 17:49:57 monads are a good way to understand monads. 17:49:59 Monads don't matter right now 17:50:00 basically a non-functional program involves implicit state 17:50:02 I guess 17:50:05 such as the state of the file system 17:50:07 Right 17:50:12 in a functional system, all this state is made explicit 17:50:16 somehow or another 17:51:01 So, you call write(read("myfile), "Hello world) 17:51:12 And it returns some "thing" that'll write to the file? 17:51:33 world")* 17:52:04 I'm having the same interrogations as Roujo 17:52:15 in Ocaml the read and write functions aren't really functional at all 17:52:19 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:52:31 -!- Bike has joined. 17:52:31 hi fuck everythigngn 17:52:34 OKAY BIKE 17:52:37 read error eh 17:52:37 =P 17:53:00 if i bump my netbook the network card dies 17:53:05 it's sad 17:53:12 I don't see how external read/write functions can be, well, functional at all 17:53:16 But eh 17:53:31 Roujo: the thing you said is one way. 17:53:51 Bike: Is there another, purely functional way? 17:53:52 Roujo: another way is to pass the state of the filesystem around, like i said. this could be somewhat less practical because that's probably pretty big, but whatever. 17:54:00 Heh =P 17:54:10 I haven't actually read much of this but the focus on state is misleading. 17:54:10 so you return a whole new computer with the file edited? 17:54:23 elliott: well excuuuuuuse me princess 17:54:27 Koen_: Try a whole new universe 17:54:37 Roujo: we have a joke esolang for that I reckon 17:54:46 Oh? =) 17:54:48 elliott: i can bring up RealWorld if you want!!! 17:55:03 yeah it's called functional brainfuck, or something 17:59:14 -!- monotone has joined. 18:01:09 hellonotone. 18:01:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:01:26 @tell Bike another bump? 18:01:26 Consider it noted. 18:02:17 helloily 18:02:44 `thanks boily 18:02:46 Thanks, boily. Thoily. 18:02:51 `thanks thanks 18:02:53 Thanks, thanks. Thanks. 18:03:08 `thanks cat 18:03:09 Thanks, cat. That. 18:03:14 `thanks 18:03:15 -!- Bike has joined. 18:03:15 Thanks, . T. 18:03:26 `thanks 18:03:28 Thanks, . T. 18:03:36 boily: no, that was physical motion away from the network node (gasp) 18:03:40 `thanks 18:03:41 Thanks, . T. 18:03:46 NO LAMBDABOT I WILL NOT 18:03:51 @clear-messages 18:03:51 Messages cleared. 18:03:54 ouch 18:04:16 Bike: tell us more about your relationship with lambdabot. 18:04:23 * Roujo sits on the couch 18:06:32 no 18:07:08 * boily gives a bot plush to Bike 18:07:18 could you point on the plush where lambdabot touched you? 18:08:49 no 18:09:28 (btw, what shape has a bot?) 18:13:53 boily: My bots have a foot-like shape. 18:14:00 More comfortable that wat 18:14:01 way* 18:14:17 foots have many different shapes! 18:14:56 fungot: Do you have any feet? 18:14:57 fizzie: i'm surprised i'm actually capable of keeping on a project together?' ' sub?' ' sub?' ' to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules. 18:15:17 Bike: that was a bilingual pun. a horrible, terrible bilingual pun. 18:15:38 "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie. 18:16:12 don't care 18:16:18 `addquote "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie. 18:16:22 1104) "Conan, what's best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and n different mutually incompatible macro systems available as separate modules." I think that's from a movie. 18:16:50 me too, fungot. me too 18:16:50 Bike: i need to write your fingerprint as you have a function 18:17:33 That's surprisingly readable 18:17:37 If not sensible 18:17:49 ^style 18:17:49 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 18:17:59 of course. 18:18:53 `? homestuck 18:18:55 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. Best summarized by http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05743.gif 18:19:00 hey, anyone got advice? I'm trying to track down a bug in C-INTERCAL that happens consistently in one ick executable and not in another ick executable compiled from the same source 18:19:01 i have just sat through a drawn out bbc news piece presenting the ~shocking fact~ that american hospitals have half the mortality rate of british ones 18:19:07 it was fucking apalling 18:19:17 symptoms are that the structure created by the parser doesn't match the parser's debug output, nor make any sense 18:19:21 immediately after the call to yyparse 18:20:26 the fact that the life expectancy in the UK is 2 years higher than that in the US was not mentioned 18:20:33 «The New York patients had paid for treatment through private medical insurance and were therefore likely to be "wealthier and healthier", whereas the NHS patients were from all social classes» fascinating 18:21:01 the fact that the healthcare spending per capita in the UK was brought up, once, to an american who just responded "well is it really at the end of the day" 18:21:17 "yes, it is" 18:22:30 the only difference between the executables appears to be that instructions of the form "movl $0x8086b74,(%esp)" use different constants 18:22:44 which is to be expected if they compiled identically but linked differently 18:23:07 Phantom__Hoover: that's not quite a sentence 18:23:41 uh 18:23:46 *is twice that of the US 18:23:50 **half 18:23:52 fuck's sake 18:24:50 let's see if I can reproduce this in another directory tree, first 18:24:54 if I can, I'll try with -pie 18:25:03 i have no idea what you're talking about ais but it sounds gross so good luck 18:25:54 I was hoping someone would have advice :( 18:26:48 ais523, sounds like a nasty heisenbug 18:26:53 once you introduce proto-indo-european to a compiler, you are doomed. 18:27:23 Taneb: hmm… it seems the source is actually different, I just recursive-diffed 18:27:37 the difference being one declaration, where something is declared as an int not a bool 18:27:38 That helps, I guess 18:28:02 that could cause that sort of crazy corruption I'm seeing, if it's being called as an int but received as a bool or vice versa 18:28:58 didn't help 18:30:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:31:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:32:24 -!- zt has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:37:50 elliott, how do I do the dwarf fortress text-stream again 18:37:57 don't remember 18:38:05 :( 18:38:23 I think you used it to watch crawl or something 18:38:54 hi 18:39:38 did it look anything like 18:39:48 script -f >( cat ~/.ratry_login - | nc noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null ) 18:40:05 Yes 18:40:11 I remember something about rats 18:40:24 Thank you mnoqy now how does that work 18:40:25 you'll also need a ~/.ratry_login of the form 18:40:28 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:40:29 hello name password 18:40:58 where hello is hello, name is a name, and password is a password to be associated with that name 18:42:03 And how do people watch? 18:42:09 and once you have that you just run it and do stuff on your terminal and it will show up on termcast.org (accessible by `telnet termcast.org`) 18:44:26 Taneb: 18:44:27 19:44:10 who is Taneb 18:44:27 19:44:16 oh god DF 18:44:40 :D 18:44:45 Okay, it works 18:46:29 I still haven't perfected the transition from oka to TSO, and now that 0.13 is looming around I feel it's gonna be even more difficult because of the random crypt replacement. 18:46:34 Taneb: how big is your terminal? 18:46:41 80 by 26 I think 18:47:19 ah ok 18:50:25 ooh, people talking about termcast.org? 18:51:31 ais523, watch me play Dwarf Fortress! 18:51:41 Taneb: "is this new termcast from some secret channel" 18:51:54 Not faaaaaaar off 18:52:08 fwiw, I was thinking of adding termcast as an uncursed backend 18:57:28 Gonna embark now 19:01:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:03:45 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 19:05:42 oh wow, it's crashing in clang too 19:07:58 the thing is, this happens even with the release tarball downloaded from overload.intercal.org.uk 19:08:27 hey, could someone help me test this? download http://overload.intercal.org.uk/c/intercal-0.29.pax.gz , untar, configure, make check 19:08:30 and let me know if the tests pass 19:11:16 * boily checks... ♪ 19:11:54 ais523: yes. everything passes, and ends with «echo $?» equal to 0. 19:12:05 OK, so it's something to do with my machine, I guess 19:12:41 I'm on «gcc (GCC) 4.8.1 20130725 (prerelease)». 19:13:06 ~duck pax 19:13:07 pax definition: a tablet decorated with a sacred figure (as of Christ) and sometimes ceremonially kissed by participants at mass. 19:13:26 I didn't know the Christ could handle lossless compression... 19:13:50 boily: pax isn't a compression format, that's gz 19:13:53 it's an archiving format 19:13:57 specifically, the POSIX standard format 19:14:02 nobody uses it, which is why it's perfect for INTERCAL 19:14:09 (although I've seen sightings of it in the wild on Mac) 19:14:39 also it's forwards-compatible with tar, so any tar program can handle it fine 19:14:47 oh, right. it's the tar part that got substituted with a pax. 19:14:56 and the reason I could «tar xaf» the archive. 19:15:29 what does the a stand for? 19:15:42 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:16:27 ais523: automatic format detection. 19:16:36 right 19:16:55 I still don't know why bz2 is «j». 19:17:12 Me neither, but xz is probably J because of bz2 being j. 19:18:37 boily: Julian Sweard would be my guess 19:18:43 Seward 19:18:55 Roujo: oooooooh. 19:19:14 boily: "xf" should work with a modern tar 19:19:16 Just one of the few free letters, possibly. 19:19:34 "It's... It's beautiful. What do you call it?" "Huh? Oh, I don't know. I'm not much of a flower... scientist...guy." --Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. (I've been reading LPs.) 19:21:28 elliott: too simple. tar has to keep its Mystic Aura intact. 19:22:12 fizzie: clearly you have the better translation 19:22:15 because I don't remember that line 19:22:32 I have the UK version, whose translation is inferior in almost every way, except CO names 19:22:35 ais523: Do you remember: "Isabella, you're a person! A real living person with ideas and dreams and...and stuff like that!" 19:22:43 fizzie: she wasn't called Isabella 19:23:04 she was called Catleia in the UK version, because they /did/ know what the flower was called in that verison 19:23:05 *version 19:23:15 Oh, that's mentioned. 19:23:27 "No, I wait! I remember... This is a Cattleya isabella. It's a natural hybrid of the orchid family. Cattleya... Yes, that's it! That will be myname." 19:23:41 ~duck LP 19:23:42 "I will be named after this beautiful flower you brought me. My name is Cattleya!" 19:23:42 a long-playing phonograph record; designed to be played at 33.3 rpm. 19:23:48 "Uh...Cattelya? Wow, that's...that's uh... That's kind of hard to say, actually. How about we call you Isabella? That's really pretty. It fits you better." 19:23:51 (ofc, what she's called is different from her name; it's a plot point that she doesn't have a name) 19:24:53 hmm… this bug is 100% reproducible and consistent in its behaviour 19:25:08 next step, I guess: to get the parser to print out each expression it parsed immediately after parsing it 19:25:44 ais523: which gcc are you using? 19:26:14 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:26:22 gcc 4.7.3, also clang 3.2 19:26:36 if it's UB, it'd be most likely to act differently on the two compilers… 19:27:04 not necessarily, ofc; UB can be tricky to pin down 19:27:20 ~duck UB 19:27:20 Funkeys, a computer game for children Ugly Betty, an American dramedy series which sometimes uses the abbreviation. 19:27:23 also, I just noticed that C-INTERCAL attempts to determine if passing _Bool through varargs (which is UB) works via experiment 19:27:47 boily: do you expect ~duck to actually produce useful results for programming-specific acronyms, or are you just doing it for fun? 19:28:28 UB = undefined behaviour 19:28:30 I use `? for that purpose 19:28:33 ais523: both. 19:29:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/undefined_behaviour 19:29:17 I'm hoping for the day that ~duck will produce something relevant. as for now, I just contemplate the answers given. 19:29:31 was it *really* not possible to define how _Bool works with varargs? 19:29:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:30:14 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 19:30:39 olsner: well if you follow the usual definitions, you'd expect it not to work 19:30:48 unless sizeof _Bool happens to equal sizeof int, which it normally doesn't 19:31:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 19:31:48 -!- conehead has joined. 19:33:37 -!- douglass has joined. 19:34:34 basically, if va_arg were implemented using sizeof, it wouldn't work correctly for anything smaller than an int 19:36:18 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:39:25 because of default integer promotion 19:40:56 damn C 19:43:26 You could go the other way and use a language that has no implicit casting whatsoever 19:46:44 It's default argument promotion; it involves more than just integers, after all. 19:47:32 fizzie: or the other other way and have BCPL 19:47:40 where there's only one type, the n-bit value 19:47:45 (with a fixed n per BCPL compiler) 19:47:49 I guess n would have to be 64 nowadays 19:48:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 19:52:22 -!- conehead has joined. 20:07:10 -!- manuelina has joined. 20:07:50 -!- manuelina has quit. 20:12:47 ~metar CYUL 20:12:48 CYUL 112000Z 29010KT 12SM FEW030TCU SCT045 BKN120 BKN210 28/21 A2987 RMK TCU2SC1AC2CI2 CB EMBD SLP116 DENSITY ALT 1600FT 20:12:55 Roujo: ↑ ☺ 20:13:10 Woooo 20:14:30 http://helloworldquiz.com/ 20:14:32 Nice game 20:15:41 without following the link, I'm guessing… a website that shows you hello worlds, and you have to guess the language? 20:15:49 99bob would be more interesting, probably 20:16:02 Yup, that's it 20:19:04 Probably more interesting, but this is still fun ^^ 20:19:10 Just saw Chef go by 20:21:31 I like how some samples have subtle hints in them that have nothing at all to do with writing an idiomatic hello world. 20:21:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:21:52 e.g. lua, which uses a superfluousitudinal comment to point to the fact that it is lua. 20:22:06 I got 4 wrong answers 20:22:24 olsner: It's always 4 wrong answers 20:22:29 Since you have 4 lives =P 20:22:48 boily: Some also use misdirection, which is fun! 20:23:02 Roujo: that I noticed, too. the scoundrels. 20:23:09 hmm, I thought I had 5 lives 20:23:09 Also, the C one is technically also valid C++ =P 20:23:28 olsner: Huh. So you do. 20:23:32 I wonder, then 20:23:45 since c++ was an option, you "know" that there will be another one with iostreams and "proper" c++isms 20:23:45 are there any really-heavy-eso hello worlds in there? 20:23:49 like Malbolge? 20:23:53 I... think they draw from our Noble Wiki... 20:23:54 Befunge is in there 20:23:57 or BF disguised as Malbolge, you could probably get away with that 20:23:57 Chef too 20:24:06 chef, shakespeare, lolcode, omgrofl... 20:24:07 if the program were sufficiently long 20:24:09 befunge, too. 20:24:12 Lolcode 20:24:17 Didn't see omgrofl =P 20:24:27 a whitespace program might be interesting for a quiz like that 20:24:39 since when are lolcode and omgrofl really-heavy-eso 20:24:44 aren't they just dumb syntax stuff 20:25:01 they are there to lure you in a sense of dull overconfidence. 20:25:26 mnoqy: they aren't 20:26:12 ah good 20:26:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:26:38 oh, make a brainfuck derivative quiz 20:41:47 -!- Bike has joined. 20:45:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:46:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:00:46 -!- variable has joined. 21:09:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:10:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:11:25 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:11:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:12:10 http://www.independent.co.uk/student/news/grab-a-vodka-and-calm-down-accommodation-meltdown-as-york-freshers-are-forced-offcampus-8809847.html 21:12:26 Taneb: are you going to York, by any chance? 21:12:28 also, are you one of them? 21:12:29 Yes 21:12:39 Yes, but I've got a place to live 21:12:50 I am one of the not very lucky but still lucky ones 21:13:10 I know someone in another channel who is still looking and I think is quoted in that article 21:15:43 Anyway, I'm off to bed 21:15:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 21:16:58 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:26:58 -!- tescott has joined. 21:27:28 -!- tescott has left. 21:42:55 -!- conehead has joined. 21:46:37 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:50:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:54:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 21:56:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:01:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:02:02 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:05:20 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:05:49 -!- Bike has joined. 22:11:09 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:15:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:24:50 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:23 kmc: oh gosh, they were right 22:38:25 http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/new-york-times-provides-new-details-about-nsa-backdoor-in-crypto-spec/ 22:38:31 Dual_EC_DBRG was in fact written by the NSA 22:39:09 challenge in finesse <-- i really hate these people 22:40:02 wow 22:40:38 sigh 22:40:48 i like how scheiener's blog post said he didn't see it being a backdoor because it was too obvious 22:40:53 that just sounds moustache-twiddling 22:42:39 «Green's post was strongly worded as he wrote, "the NSA has been doing some very bad things"» 22:43:15 but yeah smash the state etc. 22:43:28 naughty NSA. bad boy. bad 22:44:26 well, they're defending the united states's security by putting backdoors in its security standards. 22:44:44 so, i mean. 22:44:48 it's pretty fucking dumb 22:45:03 I'd guess this one is Computationally Hard to reverse-engineer, at least? 22:45:15 yeah great. 22:45:34 I thought the deal was it's easy to decrypt if you pick the parameters in a certain way and know how you picked them, or something 22:45:47 which they did, obviously 22:45:49 I meant, like, if you knew the secret parameters 22:45:50 it's easy to predict the PRNG output if you know some numbers related to the parameters 22:45:51 it's easy 22:45:55 but figuring out those is Hard? 22:45:58 oh, right, I see 22:46:01 unless you're the NSA and already have them 22:46:03 -!- lmt has joined. 22:46:07 so like, it's a backdoor that they're confident nobody else can get 22:46:12 or a foreign intelligence agency that has the capability to get them. 22:46:14 unless someone spies on them and steals them <.< 22:46:21 is Halite really 10 years old? 22:46:21 'cos like... yeah. 22:47:01 hmm, but that articly only says that the NSA wrote the algorithm? not explicitly that they did put a back door in it? 22:47:10 the article's oversimplifying. 22:47:41 apparently they "generated one of the random number generators" 22:47:42 olsner: http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/11/securitymatters_1115 22:47:53 (the scheiner article i mentioned) 22:48:00 random number generator generator 22:48:07 "I don't understand why the NSA was so insistent about including Dual_EC_DRBG in the standard. It makes no sense as a trap door: It's public, and rather obvious." particularly 22:50:29 and a shitty prng too 22:50:35 very slow 22:50:36 yeah that too 22:50:43 apparently vista adopted it at some point though?! 22:55:23 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:55:36 https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/12/dual_ec_drbg_ad.html oh, not actually doing anything directly. 22:55:55 "You know what would be scary? If they secretly started using this algorithm even if you requested something else. Could anyone tell? What if they only pulled the switch under specific conditions (i.e. Chinese language versions)?" digging the comments 22:59:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:06:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:14:07 -!- Elielson has joined. 23:15:21 -!- Bike has joined. 23:15:25 hey 23:16:42 kyrie 23:16:51 anybody here? 23:17:03 `welcome Elielson 23:17:05 Elielson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:17:18 -!- Elielson has changed nick to Tayler. 23:17:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:18:29 i don't know that one i'm afraid 23:18:46 thanks Bike 23:19:40 why are you afraid? 23:19:55 who one? 23:19:59 because "Lord of the Flies" was a freaky movie 23:22:00 I didn't see that 23:23:50 "In Colorado, we don't need some New York billionaire telling us what size soft drinks we can have, how much salt to put on our food, or the size of the ammunition magazines on our guns" 23:23:54 america.gif 23:28:14 -!- augur has joined. 23:28:45 -!- Tayler has left. 23:28:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:56 -!- augur has joined. 23:29:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:39:54 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/nsa_surveillance_the_rest_of_the_snowden_files_should_be_destroyed.html bahahaha 23:40:11 «The U.S. administration “has long been trying to play innocent victim of cyberattacks” but now turned out to be “the biggest villain,” said Xinhua, the state-run news agency. This argument, of course, is hypocrisy.» WOW HOW NOVEL 23:40:46 «Finally, and perhaps most significantly, American and British Internet and telecommunication companies are under economic pressure, set to lose disgruntled customers at home and large contracts abroad.» somebody think of the megacorps 23:40:54 http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/the-windows-flaw-that-cracks-amazon-web-services/ 23:41:02 [spoiler: The flaw is physical access] 23:41:21 it's not, the flaw is access to read and write to the entire volume on which the filesystem is sitting 23:41:35 which is not physical access but is just as clearly capable of compromising a system 23:41:56 How do you get that access without physical access? 23:42:19 by asking to download a copy, or to upload a copy back again 23:42:37 which is a perfectly normal operation to do when transferring the filesystem from one system to another 23:42:52 surely the article tells you? 23:43:13 elliott: no, from what I gathered from the comments, the article is all talking about how insecure it all is 23:43:27 without noticing that unlimited read/write access has a tendency to let you make arbitrary changes to something 23:44:24 -!- lmt has left. 23:44:54 sounds pretty slashdotty :P 23:45:31 If 'blame Windows' is Slashdotty, then yes 23:45:49 Sgeo: 'blame X' is Slashdotty for any OS X with market share >= BSD's 23:45:53 (including mobile OSes) 23:47:24 "blame OS/2" 23:53:09 ais523, poor choice of variables there 23:53:24 Phantom__Hoover: it's a famously poor choice of variable 23:53:31 because it's also a windowing system 23:53:40 but I didn't notice the accidental pun until you pointed it out 23:53:48 I actually had to call something upsilon recently 23:54:00 /really/ on the verge of running out of letters :( 23:54:10 (I wanted to call something omicron just to see if I could, but LaTeX wouldn't let me) 23:57:24 how does it not let you 2013-09-12: 00:12:48 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:13:24 Phantom__Hoover: there's no \omicron 00:13:33 and just typing an o would seem wrong 00:13:50 perhaps I could try to find one in Unicode, although LaTeX+Unicode is its own brand of "fun" 00:14:32 isn't the latex way that you just type an o 00:15:01 yeah but that's a different letter 00:15:04 wow 00:15:11 omega is literally greek for 'big o' 00:15:22 hehe 00:15:48 Phantom__Hoover: and omicron is greek for 'small o' 00:15:58 ... 00:16:01 mind = blown 00:16:02 how did I never notice this before now 00:16:08 admittedly, an omicron looks enough like an o that if someone slipped one into the conversation, I wouldn't notice 00:16:28 ais523, yeah, although i thought 'big o' was more amusing 00:16:39 omega notation 00:17:01 one of these is an omicron: ooο 00:17:04 guess which one! 00:17:09 alsο that sοunds like a great way of pοintlessly cοmplicating text 00:17:58 I guess I have enough of a programming mind to assume that an o and an ο can always be distinguished given enough effort 00:17:59 I'm pretty sure they used that kind of tricks to prevent students from copying lines from the subject into our programs 00:18:05 οοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοο 00:18:10 oooooooooooooooooooo 00:18:17 no visible difference in this font 00:18:26 for a second there i thought ais was just really interested by something 00:18:29 Koen_: why would thy want to prevent you doing that? 00:18:37 in my font the difference is a 1px offset 00:18:42 they give you the prototype of a function with an extremely long name and a quintillion arguments, but no, you have to type it all by yourself because some of the letters aren't the letters you think and won't compile 00:18:51 ais523: how do I know 00:19:04 suggn. make a thing to normalise it 00:19:13 Koen_: do you get the exercise as PDFs? it could just be an encoding issue in LaTeX 00:19:22 yes 00:19:24 that happened all the time with the exercises my predecessors gave the students 00:19:34 I need to learn latex :( 00:19:34 actually it inserting spaces into identifiers was even more of a problem 00:19:42 suggn. add. use ocr for this purpose 00:20:13 at least in LyX, it seems to be fixable via a) telling it to turn off fontenc, and b) repeatedly setting the language to "reset" even though you never changed it 00:22:15 apropopos of nothing, i saw this story on /r/math about a guy who was trying to remove all the formatting stuff from a latex document 00:22:21 so he googled 'latex stripper' 00:22:27 awesome 00:22:36 haha 00:22:40 and the best part was, the results were what he was looking for 00:22:41 wow 00:22:59 are you just tricking us into googling it 00:23:03 might have had safesearch on? 00:23:09 or have been very strongly bubbled 00:23:18 also only one result would need to be correct for it to be useful 00:24:07 well i just googled it 00:24:21 the first two results are about... stripping latex paint from wood 00:24:31 the next five are all exactly what you'd expect 00:24:50 @@google latex stripper 00:24:53 @google latex stripper 00:24:55 http://toolmonger.com/2009/09/25/reader-question-stripping-latex-paint/ 00:24:55 Title: Reader Question: Stripping Latex Paint | Toolmonger 00:25:14 I'm not sure what I'd expect 00:25:17 especially given the context 00:25:41 people stripping 00:25:44 whilst wearing latex 00:26:30 right 00:26:33 I'd probably expect feminine people 00:26:37 I guess that was a strong possibility 00:27:15 how about people stripping from wearing latex??????how about it 00:28:33 anyway, this sort of thing is why Ubuntu use adjective animals for their version name 00:28:40 so that there's at least a chance of being able to websearch them 00:30:18 os x does that as well 00:30:53 should we be afraid of finding articles about houses with eight windows? 00:32:30 well those are probably more worksafe than latex strippers 00:33:28 latew strippers make up a good story 00:33:55 also a good cover story if you get caught looking for porn 00:35:17 hot 00:43:35 not so good if you're not into latex 00:43:37 or strippers 00:45:53 seriously considered writing verilog macrology to turn truth tables into PoS for me. apparently verilog macros suck 00:46:14 what does PoS stand for there? 00:46:17 product of sums 00:46:18 also, I recommend a code generator 00:46:22 yeah i wrote one 00:46:25 still annoying 00:46:34 also, why that way round? sum of products is more common 00:46:40 because it's homework. 00:46:43 (that's where the upsilon came from, actually) 00:46:51 can't you turn truth tables into PoS using any other programming language than verilog macros? 00:46:56 yes. that is what i did. 00:47:15 I guess you could use a K-map 00:47:21 anyway, semirelated, why do ctrl-c/v and ctrl/shift-insert use different clipboards, and how do i not... how do i fix this 00:47:23 it's what they were invented for 00:47:30 ais523: literally have to write out a pos expression. 00:47:41 "piece of shit" is running through my mind, i assure you. 00:48:19 try to find some way to interpret it as "point of sale" 00:48:21 i suppose in x they're probably called "buffers" or "rings" or something else weird 00:48:41 well a truth table is trivially converted into a sum of products, and then you just have to factor that product 00:48:42 maybe it's just urxvt. anyway, ugh 00:48:53 koen i know how to do this. i'm just complaining because it's really dull 00:49:19 Bike: X actually has like 10 clipboards 00:49:20 (is that always possible?) 00:49:23 argh 00:49:28 but two of them are the most commonly used 00:49:39 Bike: is that for some kind of "logic class"? 00:49:42 the one that copy-paste is meant to use (PRIMARY), and a temporary one that exists whenever you select anything 00:49:45 i just want to be able to paste from emacs to xilinx. 00:50:03 Koen_: circuit design. i already took intro logic and got pissed off at truth tables there 00:50:13 Bike: if it's an old or misconfigured Emacs, you'll have to choose copy from the menus 00:50:14 hahaha 00:50:21 rather than using any of Emacs' copy-like keyboard inputs 00:50:35 ais523: i think it's urxvt, i'm using ctrl-insert for copy and it works between terms but not into something modern 00:50:35 if it's very old, the only way I found to do it involved some custom elisp 00:50:42 and then I only got it working like 50% of the time 00:50:52 i hate computers. 00:51:07 i think i'll just write it all into a file because you know what? fuck. fuck 00:51:59 Bike: I took intro logic and got into an argument with the teacher because in my opinion she was trying to teach the students that the most obvious, basic common sense was not at all obvious but rather some kind of dull boolean arithmetic with complicated laws 00:52:10 here we go, possibly the first elisp I ever wrote: http://sprunge.us/ebPQ 00:52:13 that was on SunOS 00:52:25 where my first esolanging also took place 00:52:25 Koen_: my professor got fired. 00:52:31 hahaha 00:52:56 Are you talking about the Aristotle/Boole thing? 00:53:01 That annoyed some of my CSy friends. 00:54:02 and uh there kind of are complicated laws? Like, de morgan's is pretty easy but i wouldn't call it "common sense" exactly 00:54:12 de morgan's are*, whatever 00:54:26 Bike: well I was struggling with this literally last night 00:54:32 suppose you have a boolean expression 00:54:43 and you want to determine if it's a contradiction or not entirely using rewrite rules 00:54:47 also they can only apply at the top level 00:55:08 and you want to keep the set reasonably small (not necessarily golfed, but not with very large or unreadable rules) 00:55:16 mm that does sound annoying 00:55:21 oh and this is a proper parse tree with binary and and or 00:55:26 no n-ary versions 00:55:39 in the end, I found a way to avoid having to solve the problem 00:55:49 that's the spirit! 00:56:00 partly because it felt a lot like esolang design, and it was an inappropriate venue for that 00:56:16 partly because I'm almost convinced that the simplest solution is unexpectedly complex 00:57:02 it reminds me of when Snowflake had two stack manip instructions: one which rotated or unrotated the top three elements 00:57:09 and one which moved the top stack element to the bottom, or vice versa 00:57:18 this turns out to not be enough to implement swap 00:57:36 kind of wish that i could turn in my generator with the assignment, oh well. 00:57:39 (I later removed the second of those instructions to make programming in it more interesting, because it turned out not to be needed for anything I wanted to do) 01:07:20 well i generated some pices of shot. good enough for me 01:09:29 Bike: is de morgan's the thing with not(a and b) = (not a) or (not b)? 01:09:50 that's just common sense, yes 01:10:25 "and" and "or" make sense not just as truth tables but because they actually mean something 01:11:33 it's not common sense in that you don't generally have to teach it. 01:12:20 well I don't believe you should have to teach that as some theorem 01:12:33 It should be taught as axiomatic? 01:12:41 no 01:12:56 as "think about it, that's logic and it makes sense and you can figure it out yourself" 01:13:14 you realise humans are kind of awful at thinking logically? 01:13:24 that's why we invent formal systems, with rules, that you can teach people, and prove things with. 01:13:42 that's scary and sad 01:13:55 so we don't have to appeal to some common sense that isn't really all that common -- for instance, in natural language "or" often means something closer to "xor" 01:14:19 and logical implication and "if ..., then ..." have a very tricky and unclear relationship, lots of arguments about the best way to model it 01:14:29 It's only scary if you expected people to think like this logical system you dreamed up. 01:14:48 I think "a or b" always means "a or b", but sometimes the context has an implicit "if you pick a you won't get a chance to pick b" 01:14:58 I don't really think it's scary, I just think you're being a bit arrogant about the material :P even if it's intuitively obvious when stated as an English sentence, that doesn't mean it's not important to teach in a formal context 01:15:01 so, it doesn't always mean "a or b". 01:15:04 is what you just said. 01:15:19 elliott: I'm not saying formal is useless, far from it 01:15:52 Bike: what I just said is that the only difference between formal and everyday is that everyday has implicit stuff 01:16:10 That's kind of a huge difference? 01:16:29 elliott: writing mathematical papers in English is a pain 01:16:34 not so big; you could formalize everyday by explicitating the implicit thing 01:16:34 because I have to spell out which is meant every time I use "or" 01:16:43 and my supervisor apparently doesn't understand "and/or" 01:16:57 I abhor and/or 01:17:02 In which case you show that spoken "a or b" means formal "a xor b", apparently? 01:17:22 Bike: spoken "a or b" doesn't necessarily means formal "a xor b" Bike 01:17:33 sometimes it does, but not always 01:17:38 almost like there's no simple mapping to formal concepts 01:17:57 * Bike slightly bitter about this general idea for other reasons. i apologize. 01:17:57 yes there is you just need to figure out what was implicitly assumed 01:18:05 that isn't simple. 01:18:16 well you've managed to survive life for so long 01:18:23 so apparently it's not so difficult 01:18:29 What? 01:18:37 Life doesn't have these formal concepts in it, usually. 01:18:55 but everyday life has everyday concepts surely 01:18:56 I think you're a bit confused as to what the point of formal logic is :/ 01:19:12 Yes, it has everyday concepts. 01:19:22 the teacher isn't really telling you about de Morgan's laws so you can use them in everyday reasoning where you wouldn't be able to before. 01:19:24 I deal with everyday concepts without thinking of formal xor at all, generally. 01:19:28 elliott: well I'm not denying formal logic may have a point but formal logic as it is taught at our university surely fails to make its point 01:19:32 like, it's never come up. 01:19:44 elliott: there was a shop (sadly, now closed) on the way to the University which advertised with contrapositives 01:19:54 If you can't buy a bed today, you are not in Beds Directs! 01:19:56 *Beds Direct 01:20:07 I'm not sure how effective it was 01:20:13 oh btw Bike you're a biologist right 01:20:23 who would win in a fight, a pistol shrimp or a mantis shrimp 01:20:27 according to elliott, and elliott is basically god, so yes 01:21:11 well, i don't know most of their behavior off the top of my head, but pistol shrimp usually deal with shelled prey, don't they? maybe they wouldn't work so well on something soft 01:21:25 mantis shrimps have shells don't they 01:22:00 i don't know! 01:22:11 fucking useless 01:22:20 ask someone who does!! 01:22:21 bite me motherfucker 01:22:44 are you two about to make out 01:22:57 this isn't homestuck you shipping weirdo 01:22:58 we're about to penis fence, as is traditional for biologists 01:23:07 anyway i can't optimize this expression well ugh i'm incompetent 01:23:18 a shit programmer and a shit biologist 01:23:18 expression? 01:23:24 waaaah you're mean 01:23:34 come on, there's chemistry here! 01:23:39 does shipping work on real-life people? 01:23:40 on top of the biology and programming 01:23:49 (~(C+D)(A^B))|(~(CD)(A^B)) 01:23:54 there's something obvious but i can't think of it. 01:24:06 ais523, yes, they made quite a business of it back in the 18th century 01:24:15 what's the difference between C+D and CD? 01:24:18 Bike: factor out the A xor Bs 01:24:19 er 01:24:22 Fiora: or versus and 01:24:25 C|D and C*D if you want 01:24:27 oh. but what's |? 01:24:29 or 01:24:32 oh. 01:24:33 wait, are | and + both or? 01:24:35 wow factoring yes 01:24:38 no wonder people are confused 01:24:42 ais523: cf incompetence :( 01:24:47 i thought + was xor 01:24:52 I thought ^ was xor 01:24:54 no, that's + with a circle 01:24:57 ^ is xor you know what never mind 01:25:02 maybe ABCD aren't booleans and it's bitwise or vs. addition! 01:25:09 thought ^ was and 01:25:11 Bike just said "expression". 01:25:16 well in that case I insist on interpreting it as OIL 01:25:18 you're the ones making assumptions here! 01:25:20 maybe i meant lie groups 01:25:22 !!!!! 01:25:28 for my circuit design class. 01:25:28 in which case, err, it's pretty much what elliott suggested, just with more syntax errors 01:25:50 Bike: fix your operand names 01:25:51 there's something beautiful about using concatenation for multiplication at the same time as bitwise operators. 01:25:56 never 01:26:03 is (~(C+D))|(~(C|D)) just ~(C+D)? 01:26:14 it's one or the other 01:26:19 i'm sorry 01:26:23 I'm too jaded to work out which, because I was doing that all night 01:26:27 except with \oplus and \odot 01:26:40 I meant like isn't it the same unless I'm just reading it wrong or something 01:26:49 i wrote it wrong 01:27:10 Fiora: I tried to parse your line as a haiku, because of the spaces 01:27:12 but it doesn't 01:27:24 ? @_@ 01:27:33 laughed irl at that 01:28:00 well when you see three shortish phrases 01:28:02 it does make a good poem 01:28:03 that are separated 01:28:18 -_- 01:28:29 also to be a proper haiku, as well as being 5/7/5, it'd also need to mention a season somewhere 01:28:48 `quote beautiful summer 01:28:50 433) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 1038) beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone 01:29:03 :-D 01:29:03 ooh, we have two now? 01:29:06 ...I completely forget the context to 1038. 01:29:08 `quote snowman without snow 01:29:10 No output. 01:29:12 :( 01:29:18 `quote SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 01:29:20 No output. 01:29:21 also, I like the last line of that second haiku 01:29:23 oh shit. 01:29:24 `quote snowman 01:29:26 No output. 01:29:26 I like the first one too, but I've seen it before 01:29:32 oh /shit/ 01:29:42 `pastlog snowman without snow 01:30:00 update: i think i got it down to (A^B)CD. now going to check the truth table because god i'm a failure 01:30:08 wait, that won't work. 01:30:11 see, there we go 01:30:11 2011-01-30.txt:16:20:30: And the nicely zen U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW. 01:30:27 hm maybe it's or 01:30:30 I thought it was ~(C+D) | (A^B) or is that the same thing 01:30:39 nah it's different 01:30:40 OK, esolangs.org game: keep clicking random, count how many BF derivatives you find before you reach a language you created 01:30:49 if you're depressed by the result, create a language to improve your chances 01:31:09 I think that only works even vaguely well if you've created a billion languages 01:31:12 I think I probably should have just used a kmap. 01:31:21 what if one of your languages IS a bf derivative.... 01:31:28 ais523: what if you find a BF derivatives *you created* 01:31:36 yeah, fuck me 01:31:37 and what if mnoqy just said that 01:31:54 well, if I find reversible BF or The Language That Cannot BE Spelled, I'll let you know 01:32:00 or dofuck, but I'm not sure if that's on the wiki yet 01:32:14 huh, I just hit () twice in a row 01:32:14 if you hit your own BF derivative you finish your drink 01:32:23 ais523: the thing is, i'm afraid playing your game will only result in more bf derivatives being created 01:32:38 huh, I just hit zzo38's BF derivative 01:32:49 Koen_: OK, if you hit your own BF derivative, you have to keep going 01:32:57 makes sense 01:32:57 thus making it impossible to create BF derivatives to escape the cycle 01:33:14 so i'm pretty sure creating a a language diminishes your chances 01:33:16 what if i haven't made any languages... do i just keep going forever 01:33:24 4 so far 01:33:30 am i going to die. tell it to me straight doc 01:33:31 Bike: you make one, it's the only way to escape 01:33:35 Koen_: well low scores are good 01:33:48 now hum I meant the score will get higher 01:33:53 ooh, StateFlip; that's /based/ on one of mine 01:34:03 so that's promising 01:34:24 is that a 2-dimensional brainfuck derivative with booleans instead of chars? 01:34:27 bleh, 5 now, and that's the same as last time 01:34:37 Koen_: no, it's a BackFlip derivative, and has nothing to do with BF 01:34:53 what if i make brainfuck derivatives to worsen everyone else's scores 01:34:54 ***B***ack***F***lip 01:34:56 do we count Schrodilang? It /might/ be a BF derivative 01:34:56 try again 01:35:01 mnoqy: you'll worsen your own more 01:35:09 unless you have more languages than, say, me or cpressey 01:35:09 jesus i started with the wrong sum of products 01:35:19 pretty soon i'm going to find that i accidentally proved zfc consistent. 01:35:22 so I tried playing 01:35:27 OK, 6 now 01:35:39 and I just realize it's possible you find a page that's neither a bf derivative nor a language you created 01:35:52 OK, BF derivative derivative derivative 01:35:58 does this count or not? 01:36:07 I guess I have to go to 7, even if it /is/ by cpressey 01:36:25 actually most of them aren't BF derivatives 01:36:31 also i just went through like 5 pages without hitting a bf derivative, I think that's a record? 01:36:47 nah, I often manage more than that 01:36:50 up to 8 now though :( 01:37:19 9, and a particularly bad example 01:37:44 wait, I just realised I have 3 BF derivatives 01:37:54 because one of them was linked from the page I was just on (which isn't a language, so it didn't increase my score) 01:38:24 hmm, now I'm not sure whether x-D counts 01:38:47 it doesn't claim to be a BF derivative, nor does it particularly look like a BF deriv page 01:39:08 aha, it isn't 01:39:17 no tape 01:39:25 just it looks like it embeds BF's commands, that's all 01:39:30 so i'm already at 10 bf derivatives, and in case of doubt I didn't count the languages as bf derivatives 01:39:38 does it need to have a tape to be a bf deriv 01:39:38 and haven't found a language of mine yet 01:39:48 10 too 01:39:59 mnoqy: it has to have some strong similarity 01:40:10 if it doesn't have a tape, it's not a BF deriv unless its instructions are clearly based on BF's 01:40:24 OK, oklopol brings me to 11 01:40:30 it's depressing how many of these are by channel regulars 01:41:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:41:08 gah 01:41:16 this is a page about two of my languages, neither of which are BF derivs 01:41:20 but it's not a language page itself 01:41:24 so it doesn't count :( 01:42:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:42:28 so I just hit 20 bf derivatives and still no sign of myself 01:42:36 though I did hit some pages four times 01:43:57 I'm depressed by the result but I'm gonna go to bed rather than create a language 01:45:09 now I'm on 20 01:45:14 did you hit () a lot? 01:45:25 MediaWiki's Special:Random is a little weirdly distributed 01:45:29 it prefers some pages to others 01:47:00 I didn't hit () at all 01:47:02 OK, after 24, I hit C-INTERCAL 01:47:13 and I'm tempted to count that, given the circumstances 01:47:16 meh, I'll keep going anyway 01:47:33 I hit C-Intercal but I think countint it would be more than bending the rules 01:47:53 Koen_: well you haven't invented many of the commands and maintained the interp 01:48:00 so yeah, it clearly doesn't count for /you/ :) 01:48:05 since I have never written a single line of program in intercal and don't even know what that would look like 01:48:28 yay, I get to not count 2D BF because it's a page talking about BF derivs 01:48:32 rather than a BF deriv in its own right 01:48:56 I was tempted not to count it but I had lost count anyway 01:49:16 and now Backtracking INTERCAL, which I wrote the first impl of 01:49:44 anyone know what's up with http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=%E2%99%A6 ? 01:50:20 30… 01:50:32 I seriously thought it'd be much lower than that 01:50:39 I guess there are a /lot/ of BF derivs out there 01:50:57 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 01:51:11 -!- Bike has joined. 01:51:52 ais523: see the talk page, if you want to be even more confused 01:52:02 actually it cleared things up for me 01:52:08 * Bike realizes irritatedly that xnor(a,b,c) != xnor(xnor(a,b),c) 01:52:52 is that associativity? i'm too hungry to think about it 01:53:16 now 40 01:53:33 Bike: yeah, not associative 01:54:11 is there any good way to write xnor(a,b,c) with binary operator 01:54:12 s 01:54:14 Bike: is there a standard definition for n-ary nxor? 01:54:29 "they're all the same" is what i'm using 01:54:30 mentally 01:54:43 okay 01:55:03 (¬a&¬b&¬c)|(a&b&c) if you like, i guess 01:55:07 guess i'll write that. sux 01:55:09 yeah == cannot be chained in C 01:55:51 OK, can I please count Radixal!!!!? 01:55:56 sure 01:56:02 in that case I score 45 01:56:03 http://www.project-veripage.com/pmd.php oh god 01:56:04 fuck 01:56:21 "My simulator does not support Parameterized Macro Definition." why is this a property of the simulator 01:56:24 agh fuck it i'm getting food 01:58:49 I only scored 9 that time 01:59:14 again, I hit a language which I worked out the details and wrote the spec for, but wasn't simply mine 01:59:39 such a language could be a bf derivative 02:00:47 Quiler isn't 02:01:12 Bike: I can't think of simpler than (¬a&¬b&¬c)|(a&b&c) right now 02:01:15 soooo off to bed 02:01:17 bye 02:01:18 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:02:12 hmm, I was just at 1 before I hit http://esolangs.org/wiki/Index.php 02:02:26 sadly, not a language 02:03:10 -!- Koen_ has joined. 02:05:24 Koen_: that was quick 02:05:50 I sleep fast 02:06:08 also I realized someone highlighted me just before I quit 02:06:10 so I came back 02:06:24 but I'm gonna quit again soon I promise 02:06:52 OK, conclusions: if you want to do well at this, be either zzo38 or cpressey 02:07:43 although I'd do better even if I were whatever ihope127's current nick is 02:08:52 even Ngved would be beating me on these pages :( 02:09:23 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:10:10 I think David/werecatt would do ok 02:11:01 okay quitting again 02:11:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:11:07 yeah, he's doing well on the Special:Random favoured pages 02:11:13 elliott: can you go reroll Special:Random? thx 02:11:50 maybe tomorrow -> 02:13:33 i ate but thingis are still terrible 02:14:39 also, more than half of these miscapitalize brainfuck 02:15:07 OK, 18 this time 02:15:09 and hit Black 02:15:21 which I like and am disappointed that it didn't get more attention 02:15:26 compared to BackFlip 02:15:38 anyway, there are a /lot/ of BF derivs out there 02:15:50 I didn't understand just how bad the problem was :( 02:28:54 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:39:55 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:47:27 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:12:50 The FUDGE 04:13:07 Some of my MIDIs have metadata such that Foobar2000 was actually able to give it a name 04:13:12 Well, one of my MIDIs 04:18:11 I have a 47 minute long MIDI file 04:22:58 Gregor: is there any reason to dislike BASSMIDI? 04:23:34 Erm, wait, I thought BASSMIDI was a thing that can be used to use soundfonts 04:29:45 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 04:36:09 https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390156_187967128007447_1121325559_n.png i love hackers 05:27:47 They're so easy? 05:28:13 (That is a very impressive logo.) 05:28:28 syrianandproudtobe. weloveourleader. security. lions. 05:53:12 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:59:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 06:03:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:09:06 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:11:03 today at work we ate an unusual cake https://twitter.com/LostOracle/status/377879038498324480/photo/1 06:11:19 more congratulations!! 06:11:22 thx 06:11:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:50 the acid is what makes you see that background pattern, right? 06:14:24 little Servo is growing up so fast 06:16:15 yep 06:16:34 i didn't even make any #drugzjokes! 06:17:12 next you'll tell me there were none in the cake either 06:20:56 @tell boily so, from mathematics "S" is evil, but from programming it's just plain old print. <-- nah S is simple to handle mathematically, see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Rewriting_semantics 06:20:56 Consider it noted. 06:23:41 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:26:36 There's an incredibly nonsensical computer-security news item from the local public broadcasting company, but it's unfortunately in Finnish, so you perhaps can't quite appreciate it. 06:26:40 Paraphrasing, it says (among other things): "Normally, data is stored securely by collecting so much superfluous material around it that the actual information is obscured by the unnecessary information. This is called a firewall. By reducing the mass of information a small part at a time, a hacker can access the secured information no matter how good the firewall is, as long as he has sufficient resources." 06:27:08 the local breakdancing company 06:27:54 http://goo.gl/D2VT26 -- it really doesn't make any more sense before the translation either. 06:28:43 (Okay, the "new system" description manages to be perhaps one additional step of incoherent after Google Translate has had its fun.) 06:36:16 oh the /// page already had the proper CSS 06:36:37 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:40:55 oerjan: S is easy, it's just annoying to deal with 06:41:30 @ask elliott Does removing white-space: pre-wrap from the /// quine make it look worse to others? 06:41:30 Consider it noted. 06:52:40 kmc: Fixed that for you http://heh.fi/tmp/cake.jpeg 06:53:51 ais523: did you handle S purely in the original implementation? 06:56:42 the original impl was rewriting 06:56:49 so it handled everything impurely ;) 06:57:10 * oerjan swats ais523 -----### 06:57:14 most more advanced impls I've been involved with used a sidechannel for S data 07:16:58 oerjan: seriously, though, I have no idea what you mean by the question 07:17:36 well i consider rewriting to be pure 07:18:00 lambda calculus is a rewriting language, after all 07:19:09 so i guess i'm asking if your implementation calculated an equivalent form of the program that still included the output 07:44:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:53:30 well you have to be careful of programs like (x)S(:^):^ 07:53:42 which should produce output before the infinite loop happens 07:55:09 this is similar to weak head normal in lc and haskell 07:55:16 *normal form 07:55:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:59:11 fizzie: how does that new system work? 07:59:32 "In the size of the terminal from which the information is to fade from view by hackers. Security is cancellable only within the same system, and the non-protected data appears to be a wonder-ful As a paste." 08:04:46 olsner: I have absolutely no idea how it works, about all I can do is to provide an arguably more accurate translation. 08:04:50 olsner: "The new Unisys system works using an entirely different principle. In it, the entire device storing the information is hidden from the view of hackers. The protection can only be decrypted from within the same system, and for outside observers the information will appear as a nonsensical mess. This is possible because the information is encrypted in an earlier stage, before the IP address has been formed." 08:04:56 "hth" 08:05:24 `thanks yle 08:05:29 Thanks, yle. Thyle. 08:05:43 ei saa peittää 08:06:39 hmm, so the translation wasn't that bad after all 08:07:05 wonderful as a paste = nonsensical mess 08:08:51 That's the word "ihmeellinen" -- it has senses "wonderful, extraordinary" and "strange, weird, odd, curious". 08:09:01 The use is more of the latter, but the translation has picked the former. 08:09:49 those were often historically conflated in English too 08:10:27 and you can still get something of the duality in words like "astonishing" 08:10:27 how awful 08:11:59 The actual press release related to the article is pretty much equally content-free, but doesn't have the utterly nonsensical bits about firewalls. 08:12:02 The bit about "encrypted in an earlier stage, before the IP address has been formed" seems to mean that it works on OSI layer 2, and the bit about "hiding the device" and being accessible only "within the same system" seems to say the data is stored on something that's not as easily connectable from the public interwebs. 09:01:50 dammit the hello word quiz gave me BEGIN { print "Hello, world!" } 09:01:59 and a choice between awk and perl... 09:02:14 yeah lots of people have complained about that one 09:02:17 then claims it's awk, but it _works_ in perl. 09:02:26 although, it's correct in both, but hardly idiomatic in Perl 09:02:47 true but i don't think all the others are idiomatic either... 09:02:56 that said, the BEGIN seems useful for distinguishing Perl from other languages… 09:03:18 i _knew_ both awk and perl had it, of course. 09:03:33 but i was not sure if awk had straight up print. 09:04:15 although i shouldn't complain too much, this quiz has gone surprisingly well. although a lot of elimination rather than actually knowing the answer. 09:04:21 down to 1 life now. 09:05:38 heh poiuy_qwert has a program. where is he these days... 09:07:06 oh there was also the ?- write('Hello world!'), nl. 09:07:41 which a choice between prolog and something else. now i'm getting it _again_, but without what was the right answer the last time D: 09:08:04 and now it accepted prolog. 09:08:31 which i got wrong with afair the _same_ program last time 09:08:42 it's some OO prolog variant 09:09:01 logtalk, i think it was the last time. 09:09:07 also, should be :- not ?- for regular Prolog 09:09:20 ...that means the last one was _wrong_. 09:09:36 actually i'm not sure of that, isn't it ?- in the repl 09:09:47 (although you don't actually _type_ that, then.) 09:10:34 oh it finished. 09:10:35 yeah, it's ?- in the repl 09:10:43 it'd be :- to run it at program load in regular Prolog 09:10:53 and unless you run /something/ at program load, the program won't do anything at all 09:11:11 I guess the REPL is regular 09:11:15 i'm not sure if i got the last one there, since i got no message that i was wrong. 09:11:23 (5900 score) 09:12:44 hm the highest score is 6300, which seems to correspond to my 4 errors. 09:51:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:58:07 -!- Bike has joined. 10:10:33 this turns out to not be enough to implement swap <-- only even permutations, i think. 10:10:59 while swap is an odd one. 10:11:24 oerjan: yes 10:11:26 I realised that 10:18:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:33:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:37:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:39:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:43:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:43:28 oerjan: are you sure the wrapping worked for the dupdog hello world program? 10:43:59 I see a VERY long line, with a horizontal scrolling bar to read it all 10:56:40 -!- Bike has joined. 11:03:14 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:03:38 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 11:05:31 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Client Quit). 11:05:46 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 11:21:15 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:23:07 -!- yorick has joined. 11:38:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:02:21 -!- Bike has joined. 12:19:54 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:23:09 -!- augur has joined. 12:27:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:28:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:28:15 -!- carado has joined. 12:32:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:35:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:42:17 -!- carado has joined. 12:56:43 -!- boily has joined. 12:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:08:02 -!- augur has joined. 13:24:56 Roujo: http://pastebin.ca/2448959 13:47:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:53:05 -!- conehead has joined. 13:55:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:55:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:01:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:01:59 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 14:01:59 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:02:36 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:02:38 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:04:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:05:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:06:26 -!- Bike has joined. 14:08:47 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:09:11 -!- olsner has joined. 14:10:08 -!- hypha has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:10:34 -!- hypha has joined. 14:13:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:23:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 14:40:23 Today's dmesg: 14:40:25 [429774.676809] Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2c on CPU 0. 14:40:25 [429774.676812] Do you have a strange power saving mode enabled? 14:40:25 [429774.676812] Dazed and confused, but trying to continue 14:40:59 I like it when they antormo.. antrohm.. ant.. arothmorphise things. 14:42:22 "assign human attributes" aha 14:44:22 `learn arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. 14:44:28 I knew that. 15:05:18 I don't look at dmesg often enough to notice weird messages when they come up 15:06:29 hmm, something's trying to connect inbound on ports 443 and 6667 15:06:31 through a NAT, somehow 15:07:44 not even sure how you tunnel a port 443 connection through a NAT 15:07:51 6667 is almost believable on the basis that I'm on IRC atm 15:13:52 why would you try 443? aren't there other easier methods to exploit? 15:18:04 I didn't 15:18:04 this is me noticing what inbound stuff the firewall is blocking 15:18:18 I'm more interested in how they got to 443 past a NATty wireless router 15:18:20 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:18:37 I should have been pronomically clearer. s/you/one/. 15:20:29 I guess it's approximately as exploitable as 80? 15:21:59 ah? wouldn't you have to circumvent encryption to get to the juicy packet details? (fyi, ianac.) 15:22:43 (ianac: I am not a cracker. hth.) 15:22:49 boily: aren't you /sending/ the packet? 15:23:10 you don't need to circumvent the encryption because you're one of the parties who has the key 15:23:24 oh. right. iranac. 15:23:31 also, it could just be going on the basis of "443 is rarely firewalled" 15:23:38 fact. 15:23:41 people often run random things on 443 to get round firewalls 15:23:49 perhaps it's trying to exploit one of those 15:45:51 @tell oerjan looks the same to me 15:45:51 Consider it noted. 15:58:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:59:14 ais523: I got it written on console by syslogd, apparently the priority was high enough. 15:59:28 that seems quite high-priority 16:01:06 # Emergencies are sent to everybody logged in. 16:01:08 *.emerg :omusrmsg:* 16:01:26 It might have even been that, since I don't see much else in the syslog config that'd come in as a message like that. 16:01:59 (To correct myself, it wasn't written on console, it was a 'write'-style message.) 16:06:41 -!- denzuko has joined. 16:07:26 hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on how to comparitives/conditionals in bf? 16:08:35 hi denzuko 16:08:52 the basic idea behind conditionals is you have some cell on the tape that's 0 for false, non-0 for true 16:08:59 then you loop on it, and zero it at the end of the loop 16:09:17 that works fine so long as you don't mind both branches of your if going to the same square 16:09:29 then negation is quite easy to implement (set a cell to 1, conditionally set it to 0) 16:10:04 comparisons are a bit harder, you basically need to do a subtraction except track whether the cell crosses 0 16:10:12 -!- conehead has joined. 16:10:47 denzuko: you might want to read http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#x_.3D_x_.3C.3D_y for more information on how that works 16:12:05 ais523: yeah I read that one earlier, however from my understanding `temp0` does not exist in bf? 16:12:37 Sorry, I'm comming from a c++ and qbasic background (yes I do know a little asm code too) 16:12:50 denzuko: basically it means "move the tape pointer to a cell you designated as a temporary" 16:13:12 it's a placehbolder you fill in yourself 16:13:14 like, x and y and temp0 and temp1 can be anywhere 16:13:22 depending on where you want the temporary cell to be locatd 16:13:25 *ed 16:13:39 in fact, just look at the top of the page :) 16:13:40 and if you know where the tape pointer is (something it's always worth tracking while brainfucking), you can give an appropriate number of < or > to move there 16:13:41 it explains the notation 16:14:00 although, those comparisons look really overcomplex to me 16:14:05 perhaps they're more efficient? 16:14:08 @tell oerjan I think wrapping is perhaps an insufficient solution to [[♦‎]] :) 16:14:09 Consider it noted. 16:15:26 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:15:26 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 16:15:26 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:15:27 ah!! ok so the `temp0` is arbitrary and can be basically likened unto a [>][-] statement? 16:16:32 !bf +++>+++++<[->[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 16:16:35 ​@ 16:16:39 !bf +++++>+++<[->[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 16:16:40 ​@ 16:16:47 hmm, I've screwed up somewhere 16:16:57 it's hard to BF directly onto IRC 16:18:56 denzuko: you have to fill it in 16:19:05 basically if it says temp0, it means you have to move it to a predetermined cell you've set aside 16:19:10 because the algorithm needs temporary scratch space to calculate with 16:19:18 what have I done wrong? 16:19:21 so replace temp0 with some >s or elliott: that's kind of what I ment 16:19:33 (and make sure it doesn't overlap with any of the other placeholder locations) 16:20:12 thanks guys. now just to figure out interupts 16:20:29 -!- douglass has joined. 16:20:50 ais523: Loop opened at instruction 56 is never closed 16:21:09 denzuko: the loops there are balanced 16:21:28 you know what? I feel perverse, so I'm going to debug this in egojsout 16:23:29 oh ofc 16:23:36 !bf +++>+++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 16:23:36 ​@ 16:23:41 !bf +++++>+++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. 16:23:41 ​? 16:23:43 there we go 16:23:53 that's /way/ simpler than the construction on the wiki 16:24:15 ais523: that was from my bf2nasm program 16:24:58 it's basically just a loop on arg 1 that decrements arg 2, then sets a flag if arg 2 is nonzero 16:25:03 err if it's zero 16:25:19 via incrementing it on nonzero and decrementing it always 16:25:30 !bf +++++>+++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 16:25:31 B 16:25:35 !bf +++>+++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 16:25:35 A 16:25:38 !bf +++++>+++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 16:25:39 B 16:25:42 are we playing bfjoust 16:25:46 Koen_: no, just BF 16:25:50 see, !bf not !bfjoust 16:25:56 I was debugging it in egojsout because I could, mostly 16:26:06 okay 16:27:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:27:54 -!- augur has joined. 16:30:27 nobody writes BF Joust code with that many < 16:30:36 I do >_> 16:30:36 well, except me, I guess 16:31:02 I have no idea how to optimize my BF code 16:31:04 Well 16:31:10 I do, but then I get lost in my code 16:40:50 -!- carado has joined. 16:51:14 use comments? 16:51:18 Does anyone here know someone named Elielson? 16:51:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:51:30 or use some device that makes the code for you 16:51:46 Koen_: I tried =O 16:51:47 =P 16:51:49 as in you can declare a variable x and use x and the device will replace x with the appropriate amount of > or < 16:51:55 Oh, yeah 16:52:00 But I consider that cheating =P 16:52:15 and you can define a macro and the device will replace the macro with its code 16:57:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:58:10 -!- Bike has joined. 16:58:12 Hi 16:59:02 Heya 16:59:03 ^^ 17:05:23 what is an elielson? 17:08:20 I have no idea 17:08:35 He just privmsg'd me yesterday, saying "hello" 17:08:43 But I was off my bouncer, and he's not around anymore 17:08:49 And I have no clue who he is 17:09:02 His nick isn't registered, whowas doesn't tell me anything 17:09:28 I think an elielson was in here earlier 17:10:18 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 17:11:36 probably another Lost Colombian. 17:12:56 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:25:27 “Bank robbery is punishable by 20 years in federal prison... bank robbery is punishable by... bank robbery is punishable by...” 17:25:37 (I like minimal music.) 17:31:30 it's gon' rain 17:34:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:36:19 Bike: :D 17:36:34 boily: Nani? =P 17:37:43 Roujo: http://youtu.be/n7JAns3PsB0 17:37:59 (and http://youtu.be/anXcSl5uFig) 17:39:45 That Compact Disk logo 17:39:46 Nice 17:39:57 Oooh, I like this 17:40:47 My musical ear is twitching, though 17:40:53 The meter is... fucked up 17:41:37 wat 17:41:55 the meter is most verily definitely strategically musically fungotted up. 17:41:55 boily: instead of tables 17:42:00 Something about air conditioning 17:42:21 Prematurely air conditioned supermarket 17:42:42 I don't even 17:43:50 don't worry. listen to the whole album. you can get gasoline shortest. these are the days my friends. one two three four. 17:44:06 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:47:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:47:11 fungot: if not tables, then when? 17:47:12 olsner: so do you understand the problem 17:52:10 usefully, bochs' debug option for logging exceptions prints the address of the exception handler, not the place where the exception happened 17:57:43 boily.fungot.moed++ 17:57:43 kmc: any command prompt... would be 17:59:44 Ominous 17:59:45 I like i 17:59:46 it 17:59:50 Well, I also like i 17:59:57 But not in the same way, sorry 17:59:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:00:02 @karma moed 18:00:02 moed has a karma of 0 18:00:11 @karma boily.fungot.moed 18:00:11 boily.fungot.moed has a karma of 1 18:00:11 @karma boily 18:00:12 boily has a karma of 1 18:00:12 olsner: advice for fritz1 pasted " fresh-id" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord: no parse error there 18:00:12 -!- augur has joined. 18:00:18 Wooo, Karma 18:00:38 Last time my karma was tracked, I ended up at -50 for no good reason 18:01:11 Except that the bot's owner though it'd be funny, since my nick was Skynet 18:01:17 The logic still evades me, but eh 18:01:40 skynet is supposedly evil, I think 18:01:50 Probably 18:01:51 Maybe 18:02:00 it was just defending itself? 18:02:18 It was mostly trying to catch flying fishes, I think 18:02:44 It just confused the "fishing rod" subroutine with the "human extermination" one 18:02:51 And couldn't admit that it was wrong 18:03:03 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:07:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:13:10 -!- Bike has joined. 18:22:37 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 18:25:02 ~duck moed 18:25:03 Moed is the second Order of the Mishnah, the first written recording of the Oral Torah of the Jewish people. 18:25:19 ~duck mød 18:25:19 --- No relevant information 18:25:49 ~duck öri öri öri 18:25:50 --- No relevant information 18:29:38 -!- denzuko has quit (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish). 18:30:53 This is the generic computing helpdesk channel, right? Do you happen to know if a Windows (8) installation can innately transfer itself to a new (smaller) disk? (I've *just* gotten all drivers and mingw's and Emacses and other such necessities installed, and it took days, but now I'm getting a leftover 512G SSD I could stick it on, and a proper reinstallation doesn't sound like any sort of fun at all.) 18:31:24 fizzie: Why yes, fizzie, it is 18:31:40 what are you doing with a shiny and sparkling 512 GB SSD? 18:31:59 (reminds me, I still need to quintopify that package of cookies...) 18:32:40 fizzie: You could probably shrink the partition to fit the smaller disk, then mirror it 18:32:42 Probably 18:34:04 This computer has a less shiny 64G SSD, on which is Debian, and a 2*3T HD RAID 1 set, on which is the /home, and a 1T HD on which is the Windows. I thought that moving the Windows to the SSD would get the most benefit out of it, perhaps. 18:34:24 I could still decide to use it for something else. 18:34:37 fungot: You'd like to migrate on a half-a-terabyte SSD, right? 18:34:37 fizzie: parentheses become very lonely when they are debugging their programs for free. :p what a great explanation: http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ 18:37:06 mirroring is a bit weird with GPT 18:37:46 The Windows disk happens to be, of course, the system disk, with the GPT disklabel and the EFI boot partitions and all that. 18:37:49 that is a big SSD 18:38:18 kmc: The person giving it to me bought a 960 GB SSD, so this one was superfluous. 18:38:28 Or some other silly number like that. 18:39:19 wow 18:39:30 this is one of those things where Windows bloat works to my advantage 18:39:47 because the cheap SSD which is barely enough to hold Windows boot files is plenty of space for my entire system 18:40:17 The 64G SSD is plenty of space for the Debian, too. 18:41:28 linux is plenty bloated too, this 5GB partition used to be more than enough but can barely even fit a kernel these days 18:42:05 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:42:09 I seem to recall that installing 'texlive-full' takes quite a lot of disk space. 18:42:58 oh, yeah, many ages ago this system even had room for installing tex 18:43:51 I seem to recall someone computing the size of a "full installation" (as many packages as you can install at the same time, factoring in dependency conflicts) of Debian. 18:45:45 haha 18:45:46 how big? 18:46:04 I can't remember the result at all, and having no luck googling it as yet. 18:46:50 http://eduardo-lago.blogspot.fi/2012/02/what-is-size-of-ubuntu-and-debian.html I don't think this is it, but this is one size estimate. 18:47:13 I guess that's kind of irrelevant in that it sums all distributions. 18:47:28 And it's the archive size, not the installed size. 18:48:51 Debian 3.0 contains 105 million lines of code, according to a "paper" on arXiv, but that's still not it. 18:49:21 I think Debian 3.0 is really old too 18:49:58 300 million lines for Debian 5.0. 18:50:21 (This is based on -- approximately -- downloading all source packages, deleting the 'debian/' directories, and running some SLOC counter.) 18:51:04 "Estimated cost to develop: 6,119,000,000 EUR." 18:51:20 gotta love estimates 18:51:41 You can buy a Nokia for less than that. 18:51:45 (Well, half a Nokia.) 18:57:56 you can build 1/8 of a high speed rail line from San Francisco to Los Angeles for that 19:00:16 or launch about 2000 tons of stuff into low earth orbit 19:02:30 Or cover almost a percent of the US defense-related budget. 19:04:05 infrastructure in the USA reminds me of the sci fi trope where all the cool tech (e.g. FTL travel) was built by a dead civilization and nobody anymore knows how it works or can make more 19:04:05 just think of the B2s 19:06:49 someone mentioned high-speed rail 19:06:54 is this a hyperloop thing 19:07:09 i think it was a trainspotting thing. 19:07:23 you know, with the heroin. 19:10:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:14:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:20:12 kmc: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LostTechnology ? 19:21:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:29:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:11 half my floor is civil engineering majors, so, like, whatever, man. 19:49:36 back in university we had a derogatory rhyme about civ engs: «Génie civil, génie facile». 19:50:00 there was a guy in my flat doing civil engineering last year 19:50:11 i think he spoke all of about twenty words to me in total 19:51:15 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! PYTHON CODE THAT USES <> INSTEAD OF != !!!!! 19:51:51 the horror. 19:53:03 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:54:14 some day, I'll find an OpenERP core developer, and... I'll do unspeakable things! like make them utter disordered speech! that'll teach them. 19:59:41 -!- augur has joined. 20:07:46 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:12:27 Phantom_Hoover: there's an existing California High Speed Rail project which intends to use, you know, technologies that actually exist 20:12:33 instead of magical spaceman fairy dust 20:12:54 the Hyperloop proposal is widely seen as an attempt to kill this project 20:13:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:14:05 because the average person a) has no idea which technology or cost estimates are realistic, b) hates interminable expensive government-backed projects and wants some silicon valley genius to singlehandedly save us all 20:14:33 as I recall the Hyperloop documents contain a number of outright lies about CA HSR 20:14:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:15:35 ~duck HSR 20:15:36 homogeneously staining regions. 20:15:42 *average american 20:15:51 i think average person mostly? 20:15:52 for (b) anyway. 20:16:00 (a) may be universal. 20:16:00 `run cat blown >> mind 20:16:07 cat: blown: No such file or directory 20:16:08 what's our national equivalent to the silicon valley? 20:16:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:16:32 boily: Thedford Mines? =P 20:16:32 but trusting companies more than the government is an american thing. 20:17:02 and public infrastructure costs literally 10x as much to build in America as elsewhere 20:17:10 which would explain some of the distaste we have for it 20:17:27 @messages-loud 20:17:27 elliott said 4h 31m 36s ago: looks the same to me 20:17:27 elliott said 4h 3m 18s ago: I think wrapping is perhaps an insufficient solution to [[♦‎]] :) 20:17:32 Roujo: HA HA HA HA HA HA! 20:18:45 elliott: ok koen complains at least dupdog looks worse with css instead of explicit spaces to him. 20:19:02 @messages-loud 20:19:02 oerjan_ said 21s ago: I LIVE 20:19:21 OKAY 20:19:23 wat 20:20:27 YOU LIVE. 20:20:51 no, oerjan-underscore lives 20:21:09 Aaaaah what's the raw form of /me 20:21:26 raw? it's a CTCP action 20:21:28 /rawme 20:21:31 ^AACTION ...^A 20:21:52 replace ^A by whatever inserts a raw ^A character 20:23:05 what's the raw form of ^A? 20:23:52 @ask Koen_ what browser do you use? 20:23:53 Consider it noted. 20:24:07 @ask oerjan What does @ask do? 20:24:07 Consider it noted. 20:24:13 it's a character, U+0001 START OF HEADING 20:24:24 ACTION test with a rawa 20:24:27 oh. neat. 20:24:31 although in this case it's probably really spec'd as the byte 0x01 20:24:52 Hai 20:24:58 Oh shit 20:25:03 flblblblblblblbl. 20:25:04 since IRC doesn't specify a character encoding 20:25:06 >CTCP ERRMSG reply from clog [~nef@bespin.org]: unknown CTCP: Hai 20:25:39 CTCP hatee hatee hatee hoooo 20:25:42 meh. 20:26:20 «CTCP inconnu demandé par Roujo: boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily» 20:26:50 CTCP boily should be in the spec 20:26:52 I mean, come on 20:26:52 This is foolish. 20:26:54 @messages-loud 20:26:54 Roujo asked 2m 47s ago: What does @ask do? 20:27:02 heh. 20:27:02 I AM THE GATE 20:27:04 @tell roujo it asks questions 20:27:04 Consider it noted. 20:27:04 I AM THE KEY 20:27:22 @tell oerjan Thanks =) 20:27:23 Consider it noted. 20:27:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:27:41 `complain CTCP boily isn't in the IRC RFC 20:27:42 Complaint filed. Thank you. 20:31:31 Roujo: it doesn't matter, no client follows the rfc anyway 20:31:39 @messages-loud 20:31:39 Roujo said 4m 16s ago: Thanks =) 20:34:36 what are you idiots up to now 20:35:24 I thought you'd have noticed by now. Good thing you did. 20:36:01 NOTICE we're up to nothing at all. no worries. 20:36:08 ARUGH! WHYYYYYYY. 20:36:15 -!- augur has joined. 20:36:23 boily: =P 20:40:15 boily: /notice is not ctcp 20:40:26 NOTICE boily another try... 20:40:39 I suck at ^A... 20:40:42 it's an actual basic irc command. 20:40:59 boily: um you're doing ctcp fine, it's just that notice isn't one. 20:41:15 lobster, seagull, cloud-storage. 20:41:15 also you _may_ have a /ctcp command, irssi does. 20:41:41 CTCP CTCP CTCP 20:42:17 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:42:33 i think mnoqy might be annoyed. 20:43:05 @tell mnoqy OH HAI! 20:43:05 Consider it noted. 20:43:18 oerjan: not my fault. 20:43:27 O KAY 20:51:38 whoah, wait, is that why a channel is called a channel 20:51:57 because it channels irc messages to a bunch of people rather than just one 20:53:47 i think the term is rather older than irc. 20:53:54 aww 20:54:30 channels are what they drive boats in 20:54:48 you may have heard of this ancient thing called "radio" and "tv". 20:55:00 i know that 20:55:07 although radio has stations you idiot 20:55:10 there was also "telegraph", but i'm not sure if that had channels. 20:55:12 they're called channels to confuse swedish people 20:55:21 channels filled with small etherboats carrying pixels and phonons 20:55:55 Phantom_Hoover: oh it does? in norwegian you can say either "stasjon" or "kanal" but the latter is more common. 20:56:10 a radio canal 20:57:47 «un canal radio», «une station radio»... 20:58:13 Irssi will display a CTCP ACTION reply in a weird way 20:58:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:58:26 You can only see it in that way if someone else sends it 20:58:42 * FreeFull Meow! 20:59:06 * Fiora Meow! 20:59:12 :3 20:59:17 (okay I'm not very good at this) 21:00:51 looking at wikipedia, it may be that "radiostasjon" is somehow more official, but "radiokanal" has more google hits. 21:02:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:02:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:04:49 oh technically "stasjon" is the place sent from, but "kanal" is the frequency band used. 21:09:09 -!- Bike has joined. 21:25:55 @tell koen_ pikhq made a bf macro system. it was called BFM at some point, except i think it was renamed. the BFM on the wiki is yet another. 21:25:55 Consider it noted. 21:32:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:39:43 "@twitter We’ve confidentially submitted an S-1 to the SEC for a planned IPO. This Tweet does not constitute an offer of any securities for sale." 21:41:17 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:44:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:45:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzKvwYt3Zyg 21:49:45 -!- Bike has joined. 21:52:05 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:56:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:11:35 woohoo! sudden drop in relative humidity! 22:11:37 ~metar CYUL 22:11:37 CYUL 122200Z 25016G24KT 15SM FEW030 BKN090 BKN120 OVC200 21/16 A2964 RMK SC2AC4AC1CS1 SLP036 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 22:11:53 what the fuck youtube 22:12:22 why have you consolidated the player size buttons and video resolution options into one button 22:12:38 because simplicity 22:12:51 ok actually 22:12:55 @messages-loud 22:12:55 oerjan asked 1h 49m 2s ago: what browser do you use? 22:12:55 oerjan said 47m ago: pikhq made a bf macro system. it was called BFM at some point, except i think it was renamed. the BFM on the wiki is yet another. 22:13:00 i will have to describe how dumb this was in long form 22:13:33 previously youtube had a button that brought up a menu on which you could select a resolution, and three buttons for different player sizes 22:13:47 oerjan: I use firefox 23.0.1 on Mac OS X 10.6.8 22:14:30 what they have done is made the resolution menu button bring up a submenu, to which two player size buttons have been moved, and the resolution options have been moved into their own secondary drop-down menu within this 22:14:33 Phantom_Hoover: does anybody use any size other than "default" or "fullscreen"? 22:14:47 i sometimes use the middle one for 480p videos 22:15:10 so there's a subsubmenu now? 22:15:14 yes 22:15:17 that's dumb 22:16:39 Koen_: *sigh* now it looks like crap in IE, but how does it look to you? 22:17:25 oerjan: hum well right now it looks fine it's in a nice rectangle 22:17:39 *sheesh* 22:17:40 but earlier today I sware it had a horizontal scrolling thingy 22:18:38 Koen_: yes, i added some css to make it have the browser wrap instead of containing whitespace 22:19:04 Koen_: It's called PEBBLE; it's not been touched in ages, but I do have it up on github. http://github.com/pikhq/pebble 22:19:04 yes, I messaged you after you made that edit 22:20:02 pikhq: that's very tempting but I'm trying to talk myself into learning Erlang and I don't think learning a brainfuck macro language will help 22:20:18 however Bike might be interested 22:20:24 or was it Roujo ? 22:20:34 Fair warning, knowledge of Tcl helps a lot. 22:20:35 elliott: this is bad, word-wrap: break-word alone looks perfect in IE (presumably like the rectangle Koen_ sees now, but adding white-space: pre-wrap to fix it for Koen_ makes it look like crap in IE :( 22:20:50 even worse than the /// quine does 22:20:59 (it works by abusing Tcl into doing my bidding) 22:21:37 pikhq: yes I considered learning Tcl buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's not on top of my list 22:21:56 Koen_: let me guess, http://esolangs.org/wiki////#Quine is also one long line to you now? 22:22:13 (incidentally I'm afraid the amount of thing I'm not doing because I have other things I want to do first is getting huger and huger every day but the amount of things I actually do is not) 22:22:25 oerjan: indeed it is 22:24:26 Koen_: Fair enough. Tcl is pretty interesting from a language design perspective, but eh. 22:24:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FOODENING!). 22:24:58 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:25:07 well thanks for the info anyway 22:25:49 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 22:26:46 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 22:28:36 elliott: ok how do i add white-space: pre-wrap _only_ for firefox 22:29:07 ...ideally, don't :P 22:29:52 elliott: but IE turns that into crap and firefox doesn't wrap without it :( 22:30:15 afaiu 22:31:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:36:05 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 22:36:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:37:01 elliott: less ideally, how to do it anyhow? 22:37:43 you can't do it inline from an article 22:38:07 browser-sniffing is really bad... there is probably a better way to make things look consistent 22:38:15 but I don't know what it would be 22:38:25 I forget the CSS syntax for casing on that stuff anyway, so I couldn't tell you 22:40:53 i fear that this problem is too obscure to search for :( 22:44:06 -!- Bike has joined. 22:46:48 maybe you could use a media query for something that only firefox happens to support 22:47:02 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 22:47:15 -!- Bike has joined. 22:50:54 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:57:50 so, a friend of mine thinks php-style $$vars are a good idea. 22:57:53 how do i talk them out of this 22:58:03 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:58:05 um. disowning? 22:58:24 he doesn't know php. there's still hope 22:58:47 that means he independently invented the idea. that's even worse! 22:59:09 maybe he learned about them without knowing the rest of php? regardless though... 23:00:06 independent invention. he came up with lexical escape in the same message, too, so like i dunno 23:00:58 lexical escape 23:01:25 look i don't know what it's called 23:01:48 like let/cc but less reified?? whatever 23:05:28 what are $$vars 23:05:58 $var is the variable called "var", $$var is the variable whose name is $var's value 23:06:12 three-dollar programmer 23:06:19 hahaha 23:06:21 named after their deserved salary 23:06:23 Bike: oh god 23:06:30 basiccally, yes. 23:07:33 Perl has that 23:07:42 I think it's disallowed by use strict though 23:07:56 in favor of the "actual" var references which are "a bit less terrible" 23:08:30 Bike: probably you talk them out of it by figuring out what their use case is and showing how it's done better with some other construct 23:08:35 usually lambda ;) 23:08:46 i think he's just philosophizing rather than having specifics in mind 23:08:48 so, doomed 23:08:55 dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom 23:08:59 (i just suggested a hash table) 23:09:25 hash tables are probably called lists in php 23:09:25 puff puff 23:09:26 it could be interesting if you didn't represent variable names as strings. 23:09:33 I guess perl's reference stuff is basically that 23:09:34 you have to GC a hash table manually though 23:09:39 olsner: they're called "arrays" 23:09:49 i do not want to get into gc with this guy >_> 23:10:03 just make him do all of SICP 23:10:52 maybe it's the school. 23:11:00 my OS prof was an APL programmer 23:13:47 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:14:40 http://25.media.tumblr.com/44962a2571e3edce3b256f3860407b46/tumblr_mt0yu2XWbB1rwn6y8o4_1280.jpg have some biogears 23:14:40 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:14:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:15:10 where are they from/what are they for 23:15:26 insects; jumping 23:15:28 iirc. 23:15:31 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6151/1254.full yes 23:16:00 "Gears are found rarely in animals" your tax dollars at work 23:18:44 that's a true science fact and don't you forget it 23:24:07 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:26:12 dammit koen_ left 23:26:45 can anyone look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#dupdog in firefox plz 23:28:20 sure, what should i see 23:30:05 nicely rectangularly wrapped box of incomprehensible text 23:30:10 it looks like it does in chrome but with horizontal scrolling instead of a big honking textblock 23:30:13 oh. no i don't see wrapping. 23:30:24 darn 23:30:48 i was hoping i could use the firefox-only property :( 23:30:50 -!- augur has joined. 23:32:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:32:17 Bike: the chrome view is presumably like what i want, but i cannot get firefox and IE to agree 23:32:28 ~web programming~ 23:32:30 (i get _either_ of them to agree, but not at the same time) 23:32:48 lol 23:33:36 basically firefox _needs_ white-space:pre-wrap to wrap at all, which IE and chrome don't. but that messes up _how_ IE wraps, which it doesn't in firefox and chrome. 23:33:58 look at white-space or whatever it's called maybe. 23:33:59 the property 23:34:14 monotone: any advice? 23:34:14 (given the word-wrap:break-word property which all seem to do right, in a sense) 23:34:24 Is there a way to override the white-space:pre-wrap in IE? 23:34:34 elliott: i did. then i tried to add a vendor prefix. 23:34:56 Also, is white-space:pre-wrap actually sane and conformant, such that any normal browser should "just work" with that? 23:35:22 If so, pretend IE is the broken one, and give IE some extra CSS in an IE conditional comment. 23:35:36 pikhq: IE doesn't accept conditional comments any longer iirc 23:35:45 Oh blah, they did remove that in IE 10. 23:35:58 Tcl has too many ways to pass code to execute around 23:36:06 COmmand name, command prefix, scripts, script prefix 23:37:07 Also, gensym as a builtin command would be nice 23:37:18 Instead of every single package that needs a gensym implementing gensym 23:38:32 ok presumably -ms-white-space may not exist because IE was the last to support the property, or something. 23:39:07 but -moz-white-space i've seen listed, so why doesn't that work :( 23:39:16 vendor prefixes aren't meant to work once the stuff is standard 23:39:20 they're not for browser sniffing 23:39:27 *sigh* 23:40:32 i have to stop because i'm getting angry. 23:41:57 (my general problem with all computer configuration, that) 23:44:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:44:35 also, neck ache 23:47:11 basically, you cannot win. _either_ things get brittle because people do vendor-specific things all over the place, or they get brittle because you cannot overrule what a browser actually does wrong. 23:47:52 what was all that listing about earlier 23:47:58 pikhq: please teach me how to read. I was going to complain about coroutine not taking a command prefix, but it does take command + args, so that's sufficient 23:48:02 i got two pings 23:48:03 the only solutions are gigantic hacks that need constant maintenance not to become brittle themselves. 23:48:57 eventually the hacks become embedded into standards, making the whole thing too complicated for an amateur programmer to bother with. 23:49:32 but you all knew this already. 23:49:43 there there. it's okay. 23:50:16 WAAAAAAAAAH 23:50:42 oerjan: What troubles you, child 23:51:10 Roujo: i'm waiting for the pain killers to hit, and for someone to solve the crappiness of programming. 23:51:14 Ah 23:51:17 also the universe. 23:51:19 Well 23:51:21 Erm 23:51:28 * Roujo pats oerjan on the back 23:51:32 I feel you 23:56:29 -!- Bike has joined. 23:57:30 oerjan: I think Internet Explorer's behavior might actually be right here. 23:57:51 All the wrapping happens after punctuation-to-letter transitions, which are normal line breaking points. 23:58:52 So if you turn on "white-space: pre-wrap;" it'll wrap lines there first, then only break up long words where it has to. 23:59:29 obviously no one considered the use case of wanting _only_ exact end of line wrapping when making the standards. 2013-09-13: 00:00:15 so the differences are probably not even considered a bug 00:00:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 00:02:40 all my attempts at googling rectangular blocks of text seem to give pages talking about putting text inside a rectangle, which may still wrap arbitrarily there. 00:04:00 or about wrapping text _around_ a rectangle. 00:05:09 You may as well just manually break the lines, unless that's prohibited in this language... 00:06:38 monotone: all my recent css changes were to programs that cannot have whitespace in them 00:06:53 not without major redesign, anyway 00:08:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:08:34 i wonder if text-wrap:suppress would have worked if any browsers supported it 00:08:53 or wait, unrestricted 00:09:19 the danger is that the browser would still prefer normal break points. 00:09:20 -!- augur has joined. 00:10:49 oh hm let's try this 00:14:00 dammit setting word-break still makes it prefer the usual break points. 00:27:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:36 Bike: can you look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#dupdog again? 00:35:25 i managed to find http://jsbin.com/bulletproof-responsive-pre/2/edit 00:36:08 and adding the IE line from their made it look good to me 00:36:11 *from there 00:36:30 that CSS hack ;_; 00:36:59 elliott: it the \9 something fiendish? 00:37:17 yeah, I think it's exploiting a parser bug 00:37:21 or at least a parser disagreement 00:37:51 lots of evil like this circa the early 2000s: http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/boxmodelhack.html 00:37:53 anyway, it's the first thing i found that seems to even understand my problem :P 00:38:23 oh that guy (Tantek Çelik) sits next to me at Mozilla SF 00:39:02 i showed him some videos of trains. 00:39:09 what guy? 00:39:20 the owner of the domain elliott just linked to 00:39:21 oh that link 00:41:22 elliott: ok it's a hack but does the result look ok? 00:41:50 in Chrome, yes 00:42:22 sorry i'm too busy dealing with printers to help 00:42:34 the attack of the zombie printers 00:42:40 27 jobs in queue and the first is from an hour but hell if i can fix anything!! 00:42:41 go for their brain! 00:43:09 i think i'll just print in another lab that doesn't suspect anything 00:43:14 anyone else with firefox? 00:43:33 oerjan: can I interest you in a firefox installer? :P 00:44:17 maybe later. 00:44:35 now to make pizza, i think 00:44:51 i see oerjan is an experienced web programmer 00:48:09 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity896.html 00:52:07 obviously not, there's no way the two lines are compatible without some serious hacking. 00:56:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:57:40 wait scratch that, the solution is obvious: just bring your children and register them as web developers. that automatically implies the rest. 01:00:53 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:10:47 https://i.cloudup.com/YTMd2VkRWl-2000x2000.jpeg Fox explains github 01:14:07 elliott: i put it in a class definition, since it's pretty long and at least then we can replace it if we find something better. 01:15:32 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:22:03 "e-note" 01:22:06 "edit rights" 01:22:27 I mean 01:22:37 The rest is twitch-worthy, but more or less right =P 01:22:44 But the "pull request"... Nope 01:22:53 gotta request a pull on that reposotory 01:23:06 =P 01:23:30 What, is Github going public? 01:24:03 https://github.com/blog/53-github-services-ipo maybe? 01:26:37 "879 forks" 01:26:38 Bike: that's a blog post from 2008 and it says the title is a lie in the first sentence... :p 01:26:39 Wow 01:27:40 elliott: the fox image is undated!! 01:37:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:38:54 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:40:30 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:45:10 elliott: the atrocities have now been properly documented. 01:53:15 -!- Bike has joined. 01:58:39 oerjan: you're good at the admin thing 01:58:44 doing all this work for me. 01:59:49 I agree 02:00:13 yay! 02:01:39 well, this is a new and exciting printer problem, it interprets everything i print as one blank page. 02:01:42 fuck everything. 02:02:05 why would you want to fuck a blank page 02:02:33 because it's there 02:02:43 paper cuts are nasty, man 02:03:54 in the mean time, you might take a hard reload on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#dupdog to confirm the latest hack works in firefox too. 02:03:56 Not when your dick's made out of metal 02:04:02 Although I should really get that checked 02:04:21 (it needs to reload common.css) 02:05:39 (it _should_ work, since i stole it from elsewhere.) 02:06:37 (it might not work in less common browsers since i only stole one line of it.) 02:08:02 in particular i did not steal the line with a webkit comment. 02:09:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:10:39 -!- Bike has joined. 02:17:24 `reload common.css 02:17:25 Reload of common.css complete. 02:17:29 There 02:17:41 `cat bin/reload 02:17:43 echo Reload of $1 complete. 02:18:05 Yes, it's primitive 02:18:08 Roujo: i'm afraid that will only work for HackEgo's browser. 02:18:16 That's all we need 02:18:27 We just need to install lynx there and browse via him, over IRC 02:18:34 `run install lynx 02:18:36 `run version 02:18:38 install: missing destination file operand after `lynx' \ Try `install --help' for more information. 02:18:39 bash: version: command not found 02:18:50 `run install lynx lynx 02:18:52 install: cannot stat `lynx': No such file or directory 02:18:55 Aww 02:18:57 Oh well 02:19:00 `run wget hats 02:19:02 ​--2013-09-13 02:19:02-- http://hats/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden \ 2013-09-13 02:19:02 ERROR 403: Forbidden. 02:19:14 `run wget http://psychose.ca 02:19:17 ​--2013-09-13 02:19:15-- http://psychose.ca/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden \ 2013-09-13 02:19:16 ERROR 403: Forbidden. 02:19:22 Ah, okay 02:19:26 It's blocked altogether 02:19:28 Good thing, imo 02:19:44 hint: HackEgo has a whitelist for web access. 02:20:00 hint 2: `fetch works around it. 02:20:27 `fetch http://psychose.ca 02:20:28 ​ http://psychose.ca: Scheme missing. 02:20:32 oops 02:20:36 `fetch http://psychose.ca 02:20:38 2013-09-13 02:20:37 URL:http://psychose.ca/ [78/78] -> "index.html" [1] 02:20:46 `cat index.html 02:20:48 ​ \ \ Psychose \ \ \ Yayyyy! \ 02:21:28 the catch is that `fetch is not useable from other commands. 02:30:16 http://imgur.com/7tImjmw 02:33:24 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:34:15 i was about to ask fungot but he's gone again. 02:34:39 which raises the question: has fungot ever been seen together with that thing 03:11:15 -!- tswett has joined. 03:11:57 So I pondered how this Hylisk program would translate into Haskell: "module Main where main :: World -> World; main = \x -> x" 03:12:17 I concluded that "\x", "->", and "x" would translate to "return ()", ">>", and "return ()", respectively. 03:12:27 Thus, "module Main where main :: IO (); main = return () >> return ()" 03:12:29 Efficient. 03:12:38 Elegant. 03:12:40 Extraordinary. 03:14:24 If "\x -> x" were to be translated into a Haskell type a -> a instead of a Haskell type IO a, it would, of course, translate as "id . id" 03:15:20 O KAY 03:15:37 Yeah, man, dang, amirite. 03:41:54 sometimes irc 'help' channels really make me rage 03:42:20 gotta love it when you get a guy who's doing everything he can to show he's smarter than you instead of actually doing something simple like pasting a link 03:42:42 freenode y u!!! 03:44:11 you'll just have to change to doing everything in haskell 03:44:37 ok they'll still show they're smarter than you, but they'll _also_ try to help. 03:46:46 "Hey, I'm having trouble working through Linux From Scratch." "Do it in Haskell." 03:48:08 accurate. 03:56:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:00:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:08:34 -!- Bike has joined. 04:15:25 This reminds me, I should do Linux From Scratch 04:16:08 does LFS give you a modern Linux desktop or is it @90s_Linux_User all the way 04:16:59 Doesn't matter, I'm not planning on using it as a 'real' system 04:17:23 it matters as far as whether it teaches you "how things really work" 04:18:06 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:18:23 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:20:10 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds). 04:20:53 kmc: LFS proper gives you a fairly sane build environment *for* a modern Linux desktop that just happens to be missing nearly every dependency. 04:21:07 BLFS describes how to build stuff you'd care about, like, say, XFCE. 04:21:50 pikhq: do you still like Tcl? 04:21:55 Sgeo: Yes. 04:22:00 :) 04:22:04 * Sgeo is currently on a Tcl kick 04:22:22 ok cool 04:22:26 -!- myndzi has quit (Excess Flood). 04:22:40 I consider it a fairly good example of how to do language minimalism without making something utterly impractical. 04:23:37 I mean really, you can do a Tcl implementation in like 500 lines of not-crazy C. 04:24:01 Can a Tcl be done in a little bit of not-crazy LSL? 04:24:05 -!- myndzi has joined. 04:24:05 I should attempt to do that 04:24:13 I dunno, maybe? 04:24:37 Although, this 500 not-crazy C implementation, might not be as efficient as the official implementation? 04:24:51 The official implementation doesn't internally do EIAS 04:24:53 Nowhere *near*. 04:25:34 The official implementation is a bytecode compiler, and does more "everything can be a string" than EIAS. 04:25:58 Can a suspended coroutine be a string? 04:26:09 Hmmm. 04:26:23 I'm imaginine everything in the Tcl universe being serializable... except suspended coroutines 04:36:37 just keep a serializable continuation. 04:36:44 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 04:40:43 tcl hhas coroutines? 04:43:33 Not to my knowledge. 04:44:07 Though you could probably hack it in via stack inspection. :) 04:44:22 Shame the call stack isn't actually first class. 04:49:21 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:51:29 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Client Quit). 04:51:54 kmc: pikhq: new to 8.6: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.6/TclCmd/coroutine.htm 04:52:35 Ah. 04:56:55 Also, there's a built-in OO system in 8.6 04:57:19 Intended more to be a framework on which to make OO systems, but usable independently in and of itself 04:57:37 how would the call stack being first class work 04:58:15 In Tcl specifically, or in general? 04:58:22 Sgeo: That was 8.5. 04:58:28 I think 8.6 added to it though. 04:58:35 in general, i guess 04:58:40 Oddly. 04:58:55 http://wiki.tcl.tk/18152 04:59:08 Bike: not sure how, but Smalltalk does it 04:59:35 Sgeo: Ah, yes, a wrapper for the constructs 8.5 had. 04:59:45 pikhq: I think there was an independent package for 8.5 and it became part of core in 8.6 04:59:47 i mean the data structure's simple to imagine. a stack made up of frames. 05:02:52 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:04:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:08:08 -!- carado has joined. 05:08:53 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:15:40 -!- Bike has joined. 05:49:31 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:04:07 -!- tswett has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 06:06:09 -!- jconn has joined. 06:07:19 -!- douglass has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:28:04 -!- douglass has joined. 06:48:50 -!- CADD has joined. 06:49:02 `slist 06:49:04 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:50:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:28 -!- Bike has joined. 07:01:15 `olist 918 07:01:17 olist 918: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 07:16:44 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:17:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:19:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:24:21 -!- Bike has joined. 07:32:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:37:23 -!- Bike has joined. 07:42:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:48:37 -!- Bike has joined. 07:52:27 the bikes keep rolling past 07:56:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:04:08 -!- Bike has joined. 08:11:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:32:21 http://sprunge.us/Pcjf?c best macro? 08:37:45 Enough includes 08:38:22 !c printf("%d", 01001); 08:38:26 513 08:39:11 fizzie: can it just use 16 macros B_0000..B_1111 and make B4(x) expand to the expansion of B##x? 08:39:13 couldn't it just use* 08:39:32 !c print("%d",(((01001)&1)|(((01001)>>2)&2)|(((01001)>>4)&4)|(((01001)>>6)&8))); 08:39:34 Does not compile. 08:39:39 oops 08:39:43 !c printf("%d",(((01001)&1)|(((01001)>>2)&2)|(((01001)>>4)&4)|(((01001)>>6)&8))); 08:39:45 9 08:39:58 ...oh right 08:41:15 Deewiant: It's the standard set on that bot. 08:41:29 !c printf("%d", 0b1001); /* the power of GCC extensions */ 08:41:31 9 08:42:00 geordi or something like that? 08:42:03 candide 08:44:24 And sure, it's easy enough to use 16 macros for B4 -- but the octal approach can go up to a B22. 08:44:52 (01111111111111111111111 is less than 2^64.) 08:45:24 -!- Bike has joined. 08:50:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:50:39 TIL: a cow is more likely to stand up in the next 15 minutes the longer it has been lying down, but not any more likely to lie down in the next 15 minutes the longer it has been standing up. 08:51:00 (2013 Ig Nobel Prices were given out recently.) 08:51:44 (Also learned: our university library agreements include the Applied Animal Behaviour Science journal.) 08:54:43 so cows stand up exponentially 08:54:47 wait 08:54:51 *lie down 08:55:29 fizzie: is that from an elsevier bundle? 08:55:34 Probably. 08:55:42 It's an Elsevier journal, anyway. 08:56:05 also, can you guess what is currently missing... 08:56:38 -!- fungot has joined. 08:56:40 No idea. 08:56:41 -!- Bike has joined. 08:56:48 OKAY 08:57:27 probably bike, he's very on and off today 09:08:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:10:03 -!- Bike has joined. 09:15:17 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:17:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Client Quit). 09:20:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:23:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:25:11 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:44:29 http://sprunge.us/VeGL "lies, more lies, and documentation." 09:47:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 10:06:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:13:31 -!- audioPhil has joined. 10:13:31 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 10:13:31 -!- audioPhil has joined. 10:29:35 -!- Bike has joined. 10:41:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:43:11 -!- Bike has joined. 10:58:26 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:21:26 fizzie: it doesn't say that it doesn't turn on other optimizations 11:22:30 Details, schmetails. 11:25:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds). 11:29:47 -!- yorick has joined. 11:31:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:48:40 -!- Bike has joined. 12:02:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:17:07 -!- boily has joined. 12:40:38 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:56:13 Roujo: http://pastebin.ca/2449462 13:24:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:25:27 fizzie: There is a flag to get gcc to give you all the flags that -Owhatever expands into. 13:27:34 hm. there is such a thing as Objective-C++. 13:27:53 Yes, it's for gluing objc to C++ 13:28:42 oh. I was confused for a moment because of the clashing object models. 13:29:34 It basically exists so that Safari can be written using an Objective-C UI and C++ VM ;) 13:30:55 now I'm disgusted. 13:48:31 Next up, Object-PL/I++ 13:48:42 Nowait, Objective-Fortran++ 13:50:27 I think Object-PL/I++ is the most terrifying. 13:51:13 Objective-COBOL++Script.NET? 13:52:36 * boily runs away from Gregor. “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!” 13:52:58 -!- conehead has joined. 14:02:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:04:10 the Igs are in! http://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/#ig2013 14:07:54 Beauty Is in the Eye of the Beer Holder 14:09:19 ok i'm pretty honestly impressed by the archaelogy one 14:10:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:10:20 huh, i see one of the 2012 winners on twitter all the time. didn't know they did the eiffel study 14:12:32 parboiling a dead shrew. what the fungot where they thinking. 14:12:32 boily: must be canadia 14:12:46 well, in fact, it is. 14:14:15 that's just it, it's actually a pretty good idea 14:14:23 i mean how else would you tell which bones would survive? 14:17:02 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:18:56 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:25:06 Bike: that's besides the main problem of why would you voluntarily eat a parboiled dead shrew. 14:25:50 boily, guess what I had to drink with my lunch 14:27:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:27:46 Taneb: I'm curious. or in that case, I think you are the one who was curioused. 14:28:03 @localtime Taneb 14:28:03 Local time for Taneb is Fri Sep 13 15:28:06 14:28:20 I think your thought patterns are along the right line, as indeed I was curious 14:28:31 And my drink satisfied my curiosity 14:29:12 Hello 14:29:19 Anothello! 14:30:16 Taneb: an argentinian coworker supplies me with mate tea-bags while we wait for another argentinian coworker to replenish the main mate stock. 14:30:36 boily, getting colder 14:31:19 it was only a tangential beverage. I still support the Hexhamite Botanical Infusion Hypothesis. 14:34:11 boillo =) 14:39:48 @ask boily What would you recommend to me re: learning Japanese? 14:39:48 Consider it noted. 14:51:15 I'm still here. only having weird python errors. 14:52:15 Roujo: I'd say the “Minna no Nihongo” textbooks, because they are popular, and we went through them in uni. 14:52:51 @tell boily I know you're here, I just wanted to ask you something so I @asked it 14:52:52 Consider it noted. 14:58:13 -!- Fiora has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:59:03 -!- Fiora has joined. 15:08:20 @tell Roujo you vile bot abuser. 15:08:21 Consider it noted. 15:08:45 @messages-loud 15:08:45 boily said 24s ago: you vile bot abuser. 15:08:49 Well that's nice 15:09:09 boily: Also, thanks fot the tip, I'll look into those ^^ 15:10:01 Roujo: as I said yesterday, I can lend you mine. 15:10:30 fungot: sing me a song 15:10:31 kmc: i never found the original paper on syntactic closures? syntax-case ( obviously not... :) 15:10:31 Ah, I missed that =P 15:10:32 Sorry 15:10:38 ^theme hats 15:10:47 Did I mess it up again? 15:10:48 ^style hats 15:10:49 Not found. 15:10:52 There we go 15:10:53 Thanks 15:10:55 ^style 15:10:55 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:11:03 ^style europarl 15:11:03 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 15:11:07 fungot: sing me a song of eurocrats 15:11:10 kmc: mr president, this report reflects the policy consensus between the partners, a process that began in 1989 with the first phase of the pig cycle. one thing is certain: we should insist that other contributors fulfil their commitments. otherwise the gap between levels of prosperity in the region? to my way of thinking, mrs ghilardotti, particularly, within the framework of protectionism. moreover, this draft, in its opinion 15:11:23 Is it possible for us to add themes to the list? 15:11:37 ^help 15:11:37 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 15:11:41 ^bool 15:11:42 No. 15:11:44 Okay 15:13:54 fizzie: I think Roujo wants you to add a new fungostyle. 15:14:31 Yeah, I think the RFCs might be pretty cool to markov from ^^ 15:14:43 ^style fungot 15:14:43 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 15:14:50 This might get redundant 15:15:02 fungot: do you redund with a runcible spoon? 15:15:03 boily: just to help an fnord archive) 15:15:51 ^style rfc 15:15:51 Not found. 15:15:58 ^style not found 15:15:58 Not found. 15:16:06 ^bool | ^style 15:16:15 Welp 15:22:57 There are some instructions about the style-making machinery. 15:23:25 The RFCs do not sound like a bad idea. 15:24:56 I'm more inclined to add things if someone else does the necessary preprocessing into the "one full IRC comment per line, no ASCII art and page numbers and such" format, though. 15:32:01 Sure, that was my original question: 15:32:08 <+Roujo> Is it possible for us to add themes to the list? 15:32:25 I was ready to do the work needed, I just wanted to know if I had the rights to do it 15:32:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:32:47 Well, no. It needs the editing of some files. 15:32:54 I see ^^ 15:33:02 What do you mean by "one full IRC comment per line"? 15:33:26 I mean, one example of the sort of a thing it should generate as a single comment. 15:33:45 The "can stop here" flags are set based on that. 15:34:13 (The comment length model is particularly cruddy.) 15:34:20 Okay, so it's not a pure markov thing 15:34:21 Nice 15:34:26 It's a ngram model. 15:34:27 s/pure/simple/ 15:34:47 It's more or less the same, just the viewpoint is slightly different. 15:35:08 an ngram model is just a markov model with a sliding window state 15:35:17 I have sliding windows at home 15:36:00 `run echo "An ngram model is just a markov model with a sliding window state" >wisdom/'ngram model' 15:36:04 No output. 15:36:19 hm should markov be capitalized 15:36:40 `run echo "An ngram model is just a Markov model with a sliding window state" >wisdom/'ngram model' 15:36:44 No output. 15:36:54 Roujo: http://lib.tkk.fi/Diss/2007/isbn9789512288946/article4.pdf‎ -- that's what it uses. 15:37:08 Woot =) 15:37:29 i suppose this would be technically falls if the ngram model had n unbounded. but i don't think fizzie does that. 15:37:33 *false 15:37:52 i cannot even blame autocorrection. 15:38:06 oerjan: I don't. But it is a variable-length ngram model. 15:39:14 (Still, that's mostly a representation detail.) 15:39:56 i suppose you could have variable width windows. 15:40:27 obviously the width won't increase by more than 1 each step. 15:40:59 Roujo: If you *really* want to "do the work", you can go all the way to the actual model files used by fungot. But that requires getting some software. 15:41:00 fizzie: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going to the theater of others. god keep. i will walke my selfe, richard. then, heaven, i love thee well; and, by my friend, c 15:41:26 ^style 15:41:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:41:29 Oh. 15:42:14 i wonder if any of that was not shakespeare. 15:42:39 I don't think "hit every stupid person" was necessarily Shakespeare. 15:44:07 I'm mostly wondering what an actualt "prepared" document looks like. Stripping the page number, table of contents and such is easy enough, but I'm not sure I see what the lines are supposed to look like 15:44:49 Do you still have one of those from the other styles for me to take a look at? =) 15:46:16 for irc it's simple enough i assume, just use the part after : in the PRIVMSG 15:47:00 or after > in our usual style logs 15:47:27 So... just sentences? 15:47:39 for a book there'd be the question of how big blocks to use. maybe entire paragraphs. 15:47:52 you'd want it to be able to continue after a period, after all. 15:48:59 there's nothing really preventing you joining the whole book into line (well, maybe there's a length limit) but that would probably give some unnatural jumps. 15:49:08 across chapters and stuff. 15:49:15 *into one line 15:49:37 Roujo: Well, I mean, it's really a matter of taste. 15:49:57 basically any point in the book where you want the model to be able to go from one word to the next, you want the two words on the same line. 15:50:03 What kind of things would you like the bot to output as a single reply, pretty much. 15:50:25 ^style 15:50:25 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:50:27 I've used sentences for some styles. 15:50:32 ^style europarl 15:50:32 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 15:50:42 fungot: i bet not for this one 15:50:43 oerjan: mr president, people outside this house. in the column on the right were disappointed that these were not in a position to consider that although the minutes mentioned specifically the epp group will therefore not support any initiative which stresses the importance of the human race in general and the prospects of enlargement and the report, the european union 15:51:12 fungot: that had disturbingly few periods. 15:51:14 oerjan: madam president, i also believe that the introduction of profit sharing through the exchange of information, also exercise control of this house surely has so little room for manoeuvre. what is worse, it has been under intense discussion for days if not weeks. that confirms how right parliament was to start both the accession and negotiation procedures. as a general question. could you not arrange for people to work in 15:51:24 oerjan: It's not exactly strict, because it always has the zero-length context to fall back on. 15:52:19 The stopping is not strictly from the ngram model, it doesn't stop when the sentence-end token happens to be generated (like you might expect). 15:52:23 oh, so it can use that other than at the beginning? 15:52:56 =P 15:53:00 oerjan: More than that: it can't use that at the beginning, because the context at beginning is the sentence-start token, and that always has some possible ways to continue. 15:53:13 oh right 15:53:43 um, but that means the zero length context would be even less continuity than starting a new sentence. 15:53:48 Yes. 15:54:07 (It's just the overall word frequencies.) 15:54:15 But technically if it ends up generating a word that has never been followed by anything, but it decides not to stop there, I think it'll use that. 15:55:14 it feels like it would be more natural to use the sentence-start token for it. 15:55:30 Yes, but I don't think it does. 15:55:40 This is all from memory, it might work slightly differently. 15:55:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:56:06 -!- augur has joined. 15:56:14 It's also possible that it actually contains the sentence-end tokens and always stops if one of those is generated, and the extra ad-hoc rules were just an extra on top of that. 15:56:18 I can't quite recall. 15:56:47 oh well 15:57:04 fungot: i guess you talk well enough, anyhow. 15:57:05 oerjan: mr president, during your final six months as decided at the copenhagen summit in two minutes all i can say that the reason for this is the only possible decision. allow me, on the early warning system was set up in nairobi. 15:57:52 fungot: that does not sound like very good time management. 15:57:54 oerjan: mr president, naturally i will be happy to keep parliament fully informed to the greatest possible interest in ensuring that we have failed to keep its position for the future, when it comes to this parliament: is the crisis of which the discharge has been shown with regard to preparations which are not their own personal interests. if a man campaigns for the withdrawal of troops and hardware to be deployed and allowing 15:57:57 As for Europarl, the units for that were single statements made by one speaker. 15:58:03 (They are quite long.) 15:58:13 shocking 15:58:18 So there's continuity over sentences there. 15:58:43 And there are some styles where the preprocessing has been quite rudimentary, and there are leftover line breaks, and it sometimes stops right in the middle. 15:58:46 ^style c64 15:58:46 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 15:58:49 fungot: Was this one of those? 15:58:50 fizzie: memtop 65061, 65433 ( decimal). if you know that it is set to 0 15:59:04 fungot: ...if I know that, then what? 15:59:04 fizzie: searching for game timers, and do not count when it is necessary to select the keyboard. 15:59:06 looks like it 15:59:52 Still, extracting sentences is one reasonable thing to do. 16:00:57 Next up, Object-PL/I++ <-- i'm thinking of Objectivist-B. you have to start at B, because A is A. 16:01:57 (objectivist-C is of course well known already.) 16:03:23 ooh igs 16:04:06 Yeah, the stopping rule -- assuming the Perl prototype matches fungot -- is, in fact, "for each point where $prefix->{canstop}, stop if rand(20) < (number of generated words)/5 + 1". So it depends partly on the model ('canstop' is set if the sentence-end token is possible in that context), but the probability for generating it is explicitly set based on the current length instead of using its frequency. 16:04:07 fizzie: once you've made a sprite onto the stack entries made by for, loading, and change the number of the number is written to with a secondary address of the logical file 16:06:07 In retrospect I really should've used either just the sentence token (and accepted the somewhat bad length distribution modeling), or used a proper separate length model (say, one Gaussian) with parameters set from the data. 16:06:42 Still, "it works", as an engineer would say. 16:06:53 fungot: are you any good at generating gaussians? 16:06:53 oerjan: purpose: set ieee bus. remember, that is filled. it is an arbitrary starting point similar to def fn. def fn a(x)=x+7 with a secondary command, it can be reset to 0 16:07:24 I don't think that's how you generate Gaussian random numbers. 16:10:41 * oerjan vaguely recalls that they were simplest to generate in pairs. 16:11:12 The good old Box-Muller. 16:11:18 Or Marsaglia polar. 16:11:34 Both do make a pair of norma deviates from a pair of uniformly distributed numbers. 16:11:53 Another fungot deficiency: it always selects the longest context with words, instead of using the backoff weights. (That's one reason for those loops.) 16:11:53 fizzie: by looking at the time, the 6566/ 6567 fetches data from. 16:12:49 istr you removed one of the reasons 16:13:12 Yes, there was also a bug, the details of which I forgot. 16:13:36 something about it only looking at a limited subset of the options, iirc 16:14:13 Yes, the number of ? iterations (each iteration generates 2 bits) was too low for the varikn-generated models. 16:15:21 (The frequencies I get out from varikn are just numbers in the [0, 1] range, which I multiplied with some big constant K because the bot works with integers -- the old styles had actual word counts there, and the numbers were generally smaller.) 16:18:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat_algorithm 16:19:46 That's the fancy one. 16:21:21 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:21:57 -!- conehead has joined. 16:22:52 Roujo: Getting back on track, http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/varikn/readme.txt has the instructions if you want to actually make a model (in which case you get to do the parameter-tweaking); or you can skip step 0 and stop at step 1, because the rest is really quite mechanistic. 16:22:52 fizzie: large amounts of data is permanently read into these three bits are used to read the output of the sprite's 21-line length. 16:23:08 (If you do want to fiddle with it, the -D and -E parameters in those instructions are "wrong".) 16:23:25 fizzie: Alright, thanks ^^ 16:24:33 ...I forgot that step #7 was still there... 16:32:43 oerjan: did you actually modify the dupdog program or is the diff thingy just confused? 16:35:24 Koen_: i took away all the newlines 16:35:45 that's what I thought 16:36:01 and eventually added a pre with the new class 16:36:31 I just wanted to make sure this wasn't "oh hey btw here is an optimization" 16:36:48 Koen_: the idea was to make the formatting by css instead, so that you can cut and paste it correctly. 16:37:26 since the actual program definitely should not have newlines in it. 16:37:38 correct 16:41:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:41:11 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:48:07 -!- douglass has joined. 16:52:50 "Bank robbery is punishable by 20 years in federal prison" 16:52:52 TIL 16:53:24 Roujo: did you listen to the whole thing? 16:53:35 I've just gotten to that point 16:54:03 can somebody link to this damn song 16:54:07 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 16:54:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:54:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7JAns3PsB0 16:54:36 Phantom_Hoover: the whole shebang → http://youtu.be/MIDuZq7RVAM?list=PLTUlTwlsdlFQhHsAoG7sCxumrigHW-qJk 16:54:38 ^ Phantom_Hoover 16:54:39 There 16:54:41 Oh 16:54:44 Even more 16:54:45 Wooo 16:57:25 I have also the puddle version, but it's OVER 9000 decamyriabytes! 16:57:42 (aka. 900 MB) 16:58:01 ... 16:58:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:58:17 * Roujo smacks boily around with a calisse de grosse truite 16:59:02 What is calisse de grosse truite? 16:59:17 "Fucking big trout" =P 16:59:20 `relcome FreeFull 16:59:22 Roujo: MWAH AH AH! moéssi I can make bilingual mauvais jeux de mots! 16:59:23 ​FreeFull: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:59:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:59:53 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:05 Well, I też can mówić w dwóch językach. 17:00:48 Nani? =P 17:01:03 English + Polish =P 17:01:11 my tongue. it is not happy. 17:01:23 Roujo: puddle. flaque. make the connection. 17:01:26 * FreeFull massages boily's tongue 17:01:35 boily: I know. Believe me, I know. 17:01:40 * boily “hghbhmmmmhghh” 17:01:55 * FreeFull finishes 17:02:23 * boily “hmhmggnghanks” 17:03:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:03:57 `thanks hghbhmmmmhghh 17:03:58 Thanks, hghbhmmmmhghh. Tghbhmmmmhghh. 17:04:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:05:26 * oerjan swats Roujo and boily for making him listen to this painful thing -----### 17:05:37 * kmc hugs douglass 17:05:39 -!- Bike has joined. 17:05:51 * boily hides behind Bike to dodge oerjan's swat. 17:06:16 * Roujo build a shed around Bike 17:06:19 oerjan: if you think that's painful... 17:06:30 * Roujo then debates about the most suitable color for the shed 17:06:39 boily: well it's a job where you go to syria to look at centuries-old garbage. 17:06:39 orange 17:06:40 it's my favorite color 17:06:47 orange! that's right! 17:06:48 not even a question tbh...... 17:06:58 that's right 17:07:15 elliott: oh i'm sure there are far worse things. 17:07:41 my shirt is orange. 17:08:19 we're bad at bikeshedding. we need something more... disagreement-prone. 17:09:40 elliott: but there were these words they mentioned that i tried to listen until i found, but it was impossible to hear the words said _and_ having the counting song be at a bearable volume at the same time. 17:09:47 `run cat cat | cat 17:09:48 Meow~~ 17:10:04 ^ Discuss 17:10:31 `cat bin/run 17:10:32 echo run 17:10:47 `run cat run 17:10:49 cat: run: No such file or directory 17:11:26 Right 17:11:29 `run rm bin/run 17:11:33 No output. 17:11:45 "| cat" is kind of awesomely pointless 17:11:56 Is it, though? =P 17:12:05 "| echo" would be 17:12:21 | echo wouldn't even work 17:12:29 `run cat cat | echo 17:12:30 No output. 17:12:33 Well crap 17:12:40 what! it should echo a newline 17:12:43 `run cat cat | cat | cat | cat | cat 17:12:44 Meow~~ 17:12:57 i think that worked perfectly 17:13:24 Koen_: HackEgo strips final newlines. 17:13:39 oh 17:13:51 `run echo -n '' 17:13:53 No output. 17:14:54 test 17:14:59 ^def ul (That's interesting!)S 17:14:59 Defined. 17:15:14 \input insert \x0a 17:15:32 ^ what do you think about this? 17:15:38 darn. 17:15:42 ^show 17:15:42 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a 17:15:51 ^show a 17:15:51 +13[.] 17:16:05 ^show def 17:16:05 (hai)S 17:16:17 oerjan: Hmm. 17:16:38 ^show list 17:16:38 (Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot)S 17:16:42 oops 17:16:49 ^ignore 17:16:50 ^show ping 17:16:50 (That Pong alone cannot stop!)S 17:16:51 :( 17:17:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:17:52 we have found a bug arising from the fact that Rust macros are not hygenic wrt named loop break labels 17:17:55 o_O 17:18:09 lol 17:18:18 are rust macros just c style or what 17:18:23 what actually is rust 17:18:31 c++ for nerds 17:18:57 is rust trying to have scheme style hygienic macros 17:19:02 Fun fact. "`run echo rofl" != "`run `which echo` rofl" 17:19:05 And I have no idea why 17:19:12 `which echo 17:19:13 ​/hackenv/bin/echo 17:19:23 `run echo rofl 17:19:25 rofl 17:19:28 `run `which echo` rofl 17:19:30 No output. 17:19:32 `run which echo 17:19:33 ​/hackenv/bin/echo 17:19:48 echo's normally special-cased by the shell isn't it 17:19:49 Bike: no they are closer to Scheme macros although only recently partially hygenic http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/tutorial-macros.html 17:19:49 `run `which cat` cat 17:19:51 Meow~~ 17:19:52 Roujo: echo is normally intercepted by the shell for efficiency. 17:19:56 Nice 17:20:05 `cat bin/echo 17:20:06 kmc: oh, nice. 17:20:07 echo No output. 17:20:15 >_< 17:20:42 well i don't get this syntax at all but whatever 17:20:47 i kinda don't like these special purpose macro languages. just lemme run code at compile time and spit out an AST! 17:21:01 crazy talk 17:21:39 you can't expose compiler things like the AST at compile time! the world would go mad 17:21:45 but it works out ok so far 17:21:51 ah but that's why you use lisp 17:22:02 because it doesn't have syntax, obviously 17:22:03 ASTs are such a poor interface though 17:22:10 lisp more like shitsp 17:22:12 (not that I really have a better suggestion) 17:22:22 what's wrong with asts 17:22:35 Phantom_Hoover: Rust is a systems language that provides explicit control over allocation, but in a way where the compiler can prove memory safety 17:23:21 so it has a few novel features supporting that, and the rest is just like "let's design a systems language for 2013 not 1970" so things like pattern matching, macros, real module system, etc 17:24:15 did Phantom_Hoover just successfully troll kmc? :p 17:24:37 troll? i thought he just asked what rust was and kmc answered 17:24:38 maybe 17:24:50 it's not like it took me long to compose that answer ;P 17:24:58 since people keep asking me that 17:25:02 u mad kmc??? 17:25:06 oh 17:25:13 I thought it was in response to 17:25:14 18:21:51 ah but that's why you use lisp 17:25:14 18:22:01 because it doesn't have syntax, obviously 17:25:15 kmc probably has a macro to explain rust. 17:25:17 which was obvious kmcbait 17:25:18 if you really want to troll ask "how is this better than Go?" 17:25:24 that's too obvious\ 17:25:44 Go is a completely different language for a completely different niche, and yet people can't stop comparing Rust to it for some reason 17:25:51 Ást er góð 17:25:52 kmc trolls himself 17:26:30 kmc, and if you added monads it would basically be haskell 17:26:32 oerjan: naturellement, mais pourquoi en ce moment-ci? 17:26:48 ah, now there's a half-decent troll 17:26:51 Phantom_Hoover: to Go or Rust? 17:26:56 both 17:26:57 lol 17:27:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:27:24 recipe for Haskell: add monads to water and season according to taste 17:27:38 don't forget the purity! 17:27:50 one day, the majority of languages will have monads in them. 17:27:53 even assembly! 17:27:59 a beautiful future 17:28:08 what's the recipe for the strathclyde haskell enhancement 17:28:16 random thought: when did "assembly" become a monolithic thing 17:28:25 is it just a bunch of seasoning 17:28:26 since it's, not. 17:29:11 Bike: maybe it's like, it's a monolithic thing to people who are kind of outside of it? 17:29:14 nooodl, stab yourself a few times 17:29:17 Bike: yes is. 17:29:19 and don't really understand it 17:29:21 Fiora: well yes, but why 17:29:23 Instant Haskell: Just Add Water! (Ingredients: Pure Monad Powder) 17:29:25 or when rather 17:29:32 Phantom_Hoover: is that a recipe or a personal thing 17:29:35 Bike: maybe it's like, how "functional languages" are a monolithic thing to some peole 17:29:42 it's a strathclyde thing 17:29:45 like they're al lisp or something I don't know (?) 17:29:52 well i mean that's taken as a group 17:29:59 they're probably vaguely aware that ML and Lisp have differences 17:30:09 I think lisp suffers from that itself 17:30:10 but people talk about "assembly" as if it as one language 17:30:18 suffers from what, being seen as monolithic? 17:30:19 like people lump all the languages with lots of parens into one thing 17:30:21 yeah 17:30:24 yes it's silly 17:30:42 boily: because Bike asked what's wrong with it 17:30:44 the whole "lisp is god" thing doesn't help, but whatever 17:30:46 it might just be a thing people do in general, "C/C++" and so on... 17:30:48 * boily gives a stainless bloodless machine-washable ceramic stabbing salt-shaker with nice floral motifs 17:30:56 yeah the space of languages looks really different depending on where you are 17:31:02 I guess assembly kind of has it the worst given that it's not even really a language family so much as a type of language 17:31:17 people will argue forever about the differences between Python and Ruby and JavaScript and they all seem kinda the same to me 17:31:21 at least c++ is "almost" a superset of C. scheme and common lisp and elisp are pretty damn different 17:31:33 what's a little dynamic scope between friends, i guess 17:31:43 * boily gives the aforementioned salt-shake to noodl. you know, verb target and stuff... 17:31:49 s/ke/ker/ 17:31:51 Bike: the whole point of "Lisp" is that you get to cherry-pick the language attributes you like from Common Lisp, Scheme, Clojure, etc. to support whataver point you're trying to make 17:31:52 i just wish we could compile any source into a binary module and link wildly with other so compiled modules. 17:31:58 kmc: :/ 17:32:04 Bike: hey wanna add C++ FFI to Rust? 17:32:08 that would really help us out 17:32:09 thanks 17:32:13 sincerely, servo team 17:32:24 i know a guy who's trying to make a CL implementation with a C++ ffi, presumably because he's crazy 17:32:29 presumablyp 17:32:43 I don't think you can do C++ FFI in general without outputting lots of C++ code and compiling it 17:32:49 yeah that's what he's doing >_< 17:32:56 well then at least he's on the right track!! 17:33:06 i mean, i just feel like this whole language separation thing is kind of wrong 17:33:25 yeah, unfortuantely languages tend to have type systems / memory models that are hard to reconcile 17:33:38 which is why we resort to lowest common denominator: C types or JSON or such 17:33:42 you could have a binary object file that defines calling convention and so on, and have a universal symbol something 17:33:49 i dunno 17:34:01 plus, like, stuffing a bunch of language runtimes into the same process can be tricky 17:34:39 i guess i don't know enough about that 17:34:46 don't even know many languages where the runtime is a .so 17:34:47 trying to force every language to play together nicely kinda just homogenises the languages you can use 17:35:29 you can sorta go for only really supporting one kind of language well but having really good tight integration between everything, or supporting a wider variety of languages but everything is kinda taped together haphazardly, unix is more the latter 17:35:56 maybe i'm just annoyed at rubygems and whatever working by downloading source. 17:36:38 oh well. not my field. fuck computers. 17:37:59 why is a biologist in #esoteric anyway??? 17:38:13 because i have an adamatzky fetish 17:39:12 is that something to do with battlestar galactica 17:39:15 Phantom_Hoover: Bike wants all of the pain of CS without any of the money (;_;) 17:39:29 that's a ;_; in parens!! not a ;_; on a face 17:39:42 Could be both, really 17:39:46 ((;_;)) 17:40:01 how much do neuroethologists get paid... what do neuroethologists even do?? 17:40:15 well pretty soon i'm going to be a lab monkey 17:40:25 i imagine it involves electrodes 17:40:31 oh, did you get one of the research jobs? 17:40:32 all the money, and none of the pain because none of my supervisors and employers care about how bad my code is if it works 17:40:50 kmc: interview today, but even if i don't get that one i'm pretty set on getting /a/ lab job 17:40:55 cool, good luck 17:41:32 it will probably involve simulating the activity of muscle proteins, but that's just a guess 17:48:27 ~duck neuroethology 17:48:28 Neuroethology (from Greek - neuron "nerve" and & - ethos "habit or custom") is the evolutionary and comparative approach to the study of animal behavior and its underlying mechanistic control by the nervous system. 17:49:02 Greek language is weird. how in fungot can you utter a ½... 17:49:02 boily: there are several filter controls to set the system clock. 17:49:07 &¸¿Â, yes 17:49:45 ~duck neurotheology 17:49:45 Neurotheology, also known as spiritual neuroscience, attempts to explain religious experience and behaviour in neuroscientific terms. 17:49:50 what the. 17:49:53 ttants 17:49:59 WELP! 17:50:04 avoid neuroetheology, hth. 17:50:18 wow good misspelling. 17:50:34 ~duck neuroeology 17:50:34 --- No relevant information 17:50:37 Aww 17:51:07 well there is neurology, if you like. 17:51:15 Bike: I was curious if neurotheology existed. it does. I am disturbed. 17:51:26 it's not that great. 17:51:39 it seems like a totally good and reasonable thing to study...................... 17:51:42 if a kind of dumb name 17:51:44 ~duck neurogeriatology 17:51:44 --- No relevant information 17:51:47 phew. 17:51:53 ~duck neuroscatology 17:51:54 --- No relevant information 17:52:02 ~duck neuropathology 17:52:02 Neuropathology is the study of disease of nervous system tissue, usually in the form of either small surgical biopsies or whole autopsy brains. 17:52:20 kmc: most of what i know aboutit involves stupid arguments about how shocking one part of the brain making people more religious means something something dawkins fanboyism 17:52:25 yeah 17:52:28 I don't care about any of that 17:52:39 i'd like a rationalistic view of the weird shit I've experienced on drugz 17:52:53 I don't think it'll happen any time soon, though 17:53:02 it's probably Hard Problem complete 17:53:04 ~duck neurosociology 17:53:04 Neurosociology is the application of neurobiology to the study of society. 17:53:09 WOW 17:53:23 The more we know =P 17:53:23 is this surprising people 17:53:33 "neuro-" is like "computational" in terms of sticking it in front of everything 17:53:42 s/is this/are these/ 17:53:51 Answer: Maybe, I haven't met them yet 17:54:02 ~duck computational neurology 17:54:02 --- No relevant information 17:54:09 neurology is doctoring 17:54:12 Greek language is weird. how in fungot can you utter a ½... <-- you still haven't fixed that unicode bug? 17:54:12 oerjan: preparatory routines: talk, a special reversed character appear in the 17:54:13 ~duck neurocomputer 17:54:13 --- No relevant information 17:54:15 ~duck compoutational neuroscience 17:54:15 --- No relevant information 17:54:18 ~duck neurocomputing 17:54:18 --- No relevant information 17:54:22 compoutineational 17:54:25 ~duck reposotory 17:54:25 --- No relevant information 17:54:38 kmc: but yeah most of this stuff seems like trying to understand the principles of word processor design by examining logic gates. 17:54:41 to me. 17:54:42 ~duck neuroprogramming 17:54:43 --- No relevant information 17:54:50 can we stop with the ~duckspam 17:54:57 `? okay 17:54:58 Roujo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromorphic_engineering 17:54:59 okay? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:54:59 | 17:54:59 o/`¯º 17:56:26 oerjan: *LA LA LA* can't hear you through the encoding problems *LA LA LA* 17:56:45 ~duck duckspam 17:56:45 --- No relevant information 17:56:48 :D 17:56:58 ~duck spam 17:56:58 A trademark used for a canned meat product consisting primarily of chopped pork pressed into a loaf. 17:57:00 COME ON 17:57:39 ~duck baloney 17:57:39 --- No relevant information 17:57:41 meh. 18:00:03 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:00:15 -!- Bike has joined. 18:01:23 soon, there will be no psychology topic i cannot gesticulate angrily about. MWA HA HA HA HA 18:01:42 Wooo 18:01:43 keep your gesticles in your pants, tia 18:01:55 I don't see how that's going to fix your connection, but eh 18:02:06 perhaps bonghits will fix your connection 18:02:14 it's a thought 18:02:22 Bike: Most things are 18:02:24 You would know 18:02:51 #wow #whoa 18:03:06 such thought 18:03:09 neurodoge 18:03:15 wow wrong meme 18:03:19 to the corner with you 18:03:26 #nope 18:04:15 #balls 18:06:40 -!- augur has joined. 18:10:54 I realized a couple of days back that every single IRC channel can be read as an hashtag 18:11:29 !! 18:11:43 what about ##doublehashtagschannels 18:12:06 you can make hashtags about hashtags can't you 18:12:13 «"Burdens are the foundations of ease, & bitter things the forerunners of pleasure" #Rumi #Spiritual #Quote #Esoteric #Mystic #Sufi #Wisdom» 18:12:39 Yup 18:12:48 And it gets even better when you think of the # channels 18:12:55 #Esoteric : If you keep presenting yourself as a slave, you are a slave because you obey 18:13:05 Because apparently, # is a valid channel name 18:13:23 hashtag nothing 18:13:24 # on freenode was crap last I went there, though 18:13:45 Should We Consider the Symbolism of Monster Energy Drinks as Being Satanic? 18:14:02 is # a requirement of the protocol or of the servers? or just common practice? 18:14:10 it means something specific 18:14:14 there are also &channels and stuff 18:14:17 nobody cares though 18:14:42 what if I held a server on my computer? what if I cared? 18:14:44 #channels are network-wide, &channels are server-specific 18:14:54 there's emphasis on this "I" as I put in in caps 18:14:54 But yeah, they're required by the RFC, AFAIR 18:14:57 i just said you don't care koen 18:15:36 what if my name is nobody 18:15:38 The Hidden (And Not So Hidden) Messages in Stanley Kubrick's "Eyes Wide Shut" 18:16:38 https://twitter.com/Illumine_Nation good 18:16:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:26:22 ~fortune 18:26:22 Genius, n.: 18:26:22 A chemist who discovers a laundry additive that rhymes with "bright." 18:26:43 soap fight 18:28:06 greco-roman extreme ironing. 18:44:32 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:51:47 Roujo: apparently, # is indeed a valid channel name. but is it «#», or «##»? 18:52:01 Just # 18:52:06 ## is yet another channel 18:53:23 uhm. you, like, have, like, joined them all, like. 18:54:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:55:25 =P 18:55:29 I used to hang in # 18:55:32 Not anymore =P 18:55:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:56:30 But yeah, I do tend to join # on every network I'm on 18:57:11 is # a thing? 18:57:21 oh it is 18:58:25 It's a thing on most networks 18:58:35 But it's banned on some =P 18:58:55 I think Coldfront just says "This channel may not be used" 19:02:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:03:24 Roujo: trying out the various punctuational channels. I got autokicked from «_». 19:04:17 Nice 19:04:21 From the server? 19:04:25 seems so. 19:04:31 and #% is invite only. 19:04:33 Wow 19:04:34 nice 19:07:17 Roujo: say, try to join #¨. 19:08:06 Illegal channel name =P 19:08:13 eeeeeeh... 19:08:32 someone else who has a client that Accepts the Greatness of the Diæ̈resis? 19:08:45 Nah, it's the server who doesn't want to 19:08:50 [kornbluth.freenode.net][479] Roujo #¨ :Illegal channel name 19:10:22 oh. and if you just «/join ¨»? 19:14:29 -!- Bike has joined. 19:15:29 boily: That aliases to "join #¨" 19:15:41 If I "/quote join ¨"... 19:15:51 [kornbluth.freenode.net][479] Roujo ¨ :Illegal channel name 19:19:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-IFYNrjhU 19:20:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:24:19 roujo: wat 19:24:36 ion: Ask boily =P 19:27:42 ion: listen to the thing. discuss with oerjan. 19:29:08 Can someone give me a sensible terminal size to stream Dwarf Fortress with? 19:30:41 is dwarf fortress an ascii motion picture? 19:30:55 Koen_, it's an ANSI universe simulator 19:30:59 Taneb: 80 × 25 is not good? 19:31:09 boily, it probably is 19:31:38 Koen_: it's a unicodified CP437 universe simulator, down to sweat drops and eyeball nerves. 19:32:34 I'm streaming Dwarf Fortress, telnet termcast.org 19:34:38 oh, shiny! 19:47:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:49:00 have we got a stack-based language where there is one data stack, and the program is a list of instructions, with the first instruction dropped before it's executed? and some instructions allow to push a "next instruction" before the rest of the program in function of what's on top of the data stack? 19:49:19 Koen_: underload? 19:49:20 underload but slightly suckier 19:49:38 oh 19:49:58 and for so long I have resisted going into how underload works 19:50:29 it's pretty easy 19:50:54 so you say 19:51:03 "it even forms a monoid" 19:51:44 since when underload is monoidal? 19:51:56 since i said so just now keep up motherfucker 19:51:57 Isn't everything? 19:52:10 That's what I got from monads. They're like single gonads, really. 19:52:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:53:42 * boily replaces Bike with a small semigroup 19:58:34 -!- conehead has joined. 19:59:58 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:12 -!- conehead has joined. 20:29:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:47 Taneb: someone wants to see your dining room 20:33:59 elliott, why 20:34:04 damn good question 20:40:49 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:54:57 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 20:58:56 what 20:59:46 yes 21:08:26 -!- mnoqy_ has joined. 21:09:10 -!- mnoqy has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:09:12 -!- mnoqy_ has changed nick to mnoqy. 21:10:34 mnoqy: will you remonqy eventually, or are you mnoqy for the foreseeable future? 21:11:14 it's terminal i'm afraid 21:18:51 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:38:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:52:04 -!- Bike has joined. 22:03:33 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mbo1y/my_parents_dont_believe_in_btc_how_can_i_convince/cc7o88v 22:05:01 ah yes cyprus 22:07:13 WORK DOOOOONE! YEEEEES! 22:07:24 I'm fungotly hungry. 22:07:24 boily: to scroll the following: 22:07:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: foodening). 22:07:40 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:44 that's a lot of scrolling 22:08:20 so, does anyone know about that thing where you use commodity GPUs to do subsupercomputing? fiora? 22:09:51 subsupercomputing? 22:10:10 supercomputing on the cheap, basically. 22:10:19 aka computing 22:10:19 I know a few small things 22:10:24 i guess it's just opencl stuff. but i don't know any of that. 22:10:33 GPGPU is a general term used here 22:10:36 thanks phantom, that was the joke 22:10:45 it's probably not very "super" if it's also "cheap" 22:10:47 "general-purpose graphical processing unit"? 22:10:56 Bike: ? 22:11:21 i think you (fiora) linked a paper once about breaking crypto using commodity GPUs or something 22:11:25 i don't know. kinda high right now 22:11:35 good for you 22:11:40 high as a bike 22:11:41 um. I know a little but like what about it 22:11:49 just anything 22:11:57 @_@ that's kind of vague 22:11:57 that's kind of vague 22:11:59 i don't know >_> 22:12:07 i am the eternal noob. 22:12:30 like um what do you want to know >_< 22:12:32 fungot: did anyone say anything interesting since this morning? 22:12:33 olsner: 120 print nam tab(25) " total" 120 for t=0 to 1 depends on the tape at a time. the book. if corresponding bits of color ram. the 22:13:56 fungot: I'll just take that as a "maybe"... write funnier things? 22:13:56 olsner: if the number at the next available location in the middle of variable storage area. therefore, this register. the 22:14:07 ... the 22:17:36 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:25:46 maybe i should just jack a gpu and write fibonacci in opencl or whatever shit 22:25:46 what's "hello world" for that 22:29:42 `unicode SNOWMAN 22:29:43 ​☃ 22:30:50 mm 22:31:05 i'm noticing progressively more advertising getting through adblock+... 22:33:03 `unicode POO 22:33:04 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'POO'" 22:33:15 `unicode PILE OF POO 22:33:17 `unicode PILE 22:33:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'PILE OF POO'" 22:33:18 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'PILE'" 22:33:31 hm, i thought that was it for sure 22:33:36 It is 22:33:39 oh, it is... is it not in the db? 22:33:49 `unicode U+1F4A9 22:33:51 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'U+1F4A9'" 22:33:56 `unicode 1F4A9 22:33:58 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name '1F4A9'" 22:33:58 `unicode just takes a char name 22:34:01 not a codepoint 22:34:01 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'just takes a char name'" 22:34:06 look shut up HackEgo 22:34:27 I wonder if it's exploitable 22:34:37 Probably not 22:34:47 how would it be exploitable 22:35:19 Python bug? 22:36:08 hey did you all see http://blog.sucuri.net/2013/09/ask-sucuri-non-alphanumeric-backdoors.html non-alphanumeric php backdoor shell 22:36:23 this is esoprogramming for sure 22:36:32 I keep saying that exploits are weaponized esoprogramming... 22:36:53 Bike: Since you wanted it so much... )) 💨💩 22:39:21 kmc: it involves PHP... do I really want to see? 22:39:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:39:49 @$_[]=@!+_; $__=@${_}>>$_;$_[]=$__;$_[]=@_;$_[((++$__)+($__++ ))].=$_; $_[]=++$__; $_[]=$_[--$__][$__>>$__];$_[$__].=(($__+$__)+ $_[$__-$__]).($__+$__+$__)+$_[$__-$__]; $_[$__+$__] =($_[$__][$__>>$__]).($_[$__][$__]^$_[$__][($__<<$__)-$__] ); $_[$__+$__] .=($_[$__][($__<<$__)-($__/$__)])^($_[$__][$__] ); 22:39:49 Unknown command, try @list 22:39:56 there now you have seen it whether you want to or not 22:40:14 ah, luckily Haskell is not susceptible to the same backdoors 22:40:18 it's code to run a shell (takes arbitrary calls to do from GET) 22:40:21 http://i.imgur.com/IZrScxv.jpg 22:40:34 kmc are you hacking our aim?? 22:40:38 *hecking 22:40:38 little bitty bit 22:40:40 terrible typo 22:40:45 *heckling? 22:40:50 hecking 22:40:51 no it's definitely hecking 22:41:00 why would you heckle an aim 22:41:06 aim heckles itself 22:41:10 huh. I always thought it was heckling 22:41:57 kmc: Someone probably reared that train 22:42:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:42:39 FreeFull: lolololol 22:45:00 I guess a suitably limited version of PHP could make a nice esolang 22:45:52 * kmc nests iframes 50 deep 22:45:59 hmm, and where except make is @ a prefix to suspend output? 22:46:08 *except make and PHP 22:46:15 in PHP it suspends errors, I think... 22:46:39 kmc: I think most (non-IE) browsers limit iframes to about 9 deep 22:46:55 aww 22:47:06 olsner: DOS batch files I think 22:47:21 I've tried infintely nested iframes and everyone was fine except oerjan whose browser crashed 22:47:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:48:01 -!- augur has joined. 22:48:27 kmc: hmm, maybe... 22:48:31 so what's the origin of @ as a silencing/error-suppressing prefix? 22:49:02 the shape represents your errors spiraling into a black hole 22:49:41 '@', pronounced slurp 22:56:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:01:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:04:25 @ doesn't look like slurping 23:08:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:12:40 we'll have to agree to disagree 23:12:43 hey zzo38, how's it going 23:13:09 OK 23:13:13 you use @ to suppress errors because @ is perfect and never has errors! 23:13:35 :☺) 23:14:15 don't give me that look... that... smell 23:14:37 :@) 23:15:30 Just wait a few minute please 23:15:33 I will answer in a bit later 23:15:40 ?messages-loud 23:15:40 boily said 4d 1h 46m 36s ago: ♪moof♪ you have quotes! 23:15:59 boily: What quotes is that? 23:16:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:16:15 boily added your quotes to the pdf in the topic 23:22:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NancyReaganMrTChristmas1983.jpg 23:22:19 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Elvis-nixon.jpg 23:25:02 NancyReagenMrTChristmas1983.jpg is definitely up there in terms of good filenames 23:25:12 *ae. 23:25:38 good files too 23:31:30 -!- Bike has joined. 23:33:12 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:57 I have made some levels of "Attribute Zone" game in QBASIC (I don't have it here right now though); later I intend to put in Famicom, since the game mechanics are based on the limitations of the Famicom PPU. 23:45:27 good premise for a game 23:46:46 I don't know if there are other games like that. 23:47:19 the platonic spirit of platformer characters must get through the platonic platformer game 23:47:42 whilst fighting planktonic spirits 23:47:56 terrifying imo 23:48:29 Bike: I do not understand you. 23:49:10 me neither,man. me neither. 23:49:56 I don't know what a platonic platformer game is either. 23:50:12 y'know, world of forms 23:51:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:52:26 "Attribute Zone" is not platformer game though. 23:58:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 2013-09-14: 00:11:38 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:19 `slist 00:18:21 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:20:01 -!- Bike has joined. 00:23:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:28:26 Now instruction of Uselessness RPG 1 includes limit commands. They are: mangan, haneman, baiman, sanbaiman, yakuman. 00:30:15 `list 00:30:18 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 00:30:31 how many more characters does `list have left anyway 00:30:41 many 00:31:13 what's the maximum message lengt 00:31:13 h 00:32:18 many 00:35:18 fuck the both of you 00:44:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:04:00 I have been told that Matlab code is like C. It does not seem very much like C. 02:04:53 arrays starting at 1 02:04:54 ;_; 02:05:00 hahaha 02:05:57 so far differences include: no variable declarations, no types, vectored assignment, newline instead of semicolon, comment character different... 02:06:40 Fiora: like lua!! 02:06:50 matlab is just like lua 02:07:03 it's a great way to ruin any language that you're afraid might be at risk of being well-liked 02:07:09 oh, and procedural code at the top level. 02:07:46 obligatory dijkstra: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html 02:08:22 dijkstra's smugness is so adorable 02:09:05 i assume this involves BASIC being compared to lua 02:09:18 holy shit, is this really a thing he wrote. 02:09:20 what a dork. 02:09:23 doubt he would acknowledge lua even if it existed at the time 02:09:39 Bike: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd08xx/EWD831.PDF for the full experience 02:10:45 oh hey, mesa. haven't heard of that for a while. 02:10:50 i'm not reading more djistkra!! 02:11:12 it's the same dijkstra. just with more handwriting. 02:13:04 haha the conclusion 02:13:06 what an ass 02:15:52 BASIC is not bad for some things. 02:18:45 Does Smalltalk make more sense than Lua as a language to start indexing at 1, considering Lua was supposed to play nice with C and Smalltalk had other goals? 02:19:33 other goals like ??not following the superior convention?? 02:19:52 there you have it sgeo, you're objectively wrong. sorry about that 02:19:57 Goals that didn't especially involve playing nice with C 02:21:01 That is, no matter how good/bad indexing at 1 is, is it worse in Lua than it is in Smalltalk? 02:21:40 according to the ol' shittometer... yes, it is worse in lua. 02:22:24 -!- douglass has joined. 02:37:47 In QBASIC you can start arrays with whatever integer number you want to. 02:41:43 Therefore you can have some arrays starting at zero, and some starting at one; sometimes it is useful to have starting with other numbers too. 02:42:05 It is too bad that it doesn't allow RETURN to a label inside of a subroutine; you can use that only outside of a subroutine. 02:57:46 -!- madbr has joined. 02:58:46 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:00:41 I do often use GOSUB inside of a SUB or FUNCTION routine though; you can share the scope of the subroutine it is inside of, and/or make fall-through labels. 03:08:30 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 03:09:38 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:56:42 LYSP doesn't compile in my computer; I get error message about not "dlfcn.h", implicit declaration of "dlsym" and "dlopen", unrecognized "-rdynamic", etc 04:00:35 Probably the dynamic stuff I can remove, but still it says implicit declaration of "sbrk"; what is "sbrk"? 04:04:18 sbrk or "set break" basically lets you expand the heap. 04:04:25 It's used by some mallocs. 04:05:08 This program is defining its own malloc function 04:05:38 Well then, that'd be where it's used. 04:05:43 in order to implement garbage collection. 04:06:15 Yes it is, but what is done with it if the program is using such thing but if it won't work? 04:06:36 What do you mean? 04:06:51 sbrk is POSIX. 04:06:56 Admittedly I'm not sure why. 04:08:21 What exactly is it doing, and can it be imitated by another way if necessary? 04:09:37 You certainly have sbrk. 04:10:06 Oh, wait. Windows. 04:10:25 Hmm, how'd you implement that on Windows... 04:10:52 Anyways. In traditional Unix the heap is done via a "program break". Basically, a pointer to the end of heap. Everything below that is heap you can access. 04:11:01 sbrk moves that pointer. 04:12:10 I'd be unsurprised to find that LYSP could just use malloc instead. 04:12:25 I wouldn't say for certain, but s/sbrk/malloc/ *ought* to work? 04:15:12 Maybe 04:15:25 It looks like the type is correct at least 04:15:33 It depends pretty heavily on what properties of sbrk they rely upon. 04:16:03 For simple uses the two are identical except that sbrk means you can't use libc functions anymore. 04:16:24 And it does look like used in a way that malloc might work. 04:16:51 What properties would there be? 04:17:19 The pointer returned by sbrk is always contiguous with the previous one. 04:17:45 sbrk(0) returns the last pointer it returned. 04:18:16 sbrk with a negative number moves the program break *back*, basically freeing some number of bytes. 04:18:53 All this is to say, malloc is not always a drop-in replacement for sbrk, but it might be in this case. 04:18:59 From your description it seems it would be contiguous, but the program doesn't seem to use negative numbers, or zero; it only uses sbrk once, and uses as a pointer to a structure. 04:19:09 Only once? 04:19:25 That's just the program being wrong then. malloc. 04:19:31 Yes, just once. 04:19:52 It does check if the return value is negative one, though. 04:19:58 Ah, right. 04:20:14 sbrk returns -1 on failure, rather than NULL. 04:20:30 From the program it seems if malloc is put there, then it should be checking if NULL. 04:20:46 Yes, from how you've described it that is the case. 04:41:20 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:46:28 Tag: The Power of Paint: The power of crashing on what is probably the final level and save games don't exist. 04:52:03 why does the genesis store its sprites in a sort of linked list 04:53:53 dare i ask how you make a "sort of" linked list 04:54:35 it's in VRAM 04:55:40 it has a list of 64/80/128??? sprites in the VRAM 04:55:50 it starts drawing sprite 0 04:56:10 then that sprite has a "link" to next sprite to draw in its info 04:56:44 traversal of that sprite info proceeds until a sprite links back to sprite 0 04:57:00 the link field is 7 bits 04:57:20 however there's a maximum of 64 or 80 sprites depending on the video mode 04:57:41 (80 sprites in 320x240 mode, 64 sprites in 256x240 mode) 04:57:47 what the hecks 05:00:40 Sprites are drawn in front to back order so changing how your sprites are linked will change which ones come up on top 05:02:00 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:50 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:06:17 I'm starting to think it goes through the whole linked list of sprites on each scanline 05:21:12 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:52:37 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:52:44 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:53:00 -!- hogeyui has joined. 06:08:23 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:39:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:44:07 `slist 07:44:12 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 07:52:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:53:16 -!- Bike has joined. 07:55:09 `olist 918 07:55:11 olist 918: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 07:55:34 (repeated for the idlers) 07:55:34 Didn't you already `olist? 07:55:39 yes. 07:55:48 but no one seemed to be present. 07:57:16 which sort of made it less satisfying. 07:58:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:59:08 @tell boily since when underload is monoidal? <-- well, it is. 07:59:09 Consider it noted. 08:00:45 -!- Bike has joined. 08:04:18 `seen bike 08:04:22 2013-09-14 04:57:47: what the hecks 08:05:03 good closing words. 08:10:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:20:11 @tell olsner so what's the origin of @ as a silencing/error-suppressing prefix? <-- i vaguely recall MSDOS batch language had it. @ECHO OFF was the command to silence following commands automatically. 08:20:11 Consider it noted. 08:21:15 @tell olsner What it silenced (both @ and the ECHO OFF) iirc was the automatical printing of the command run 08:21:16 Consider it noted. 08:22:30 @tell olsner no idea if MSDOS was first. 08:22:30 Consider it noted. 09:21:43 @messages 09:23:29 ooh, @echo off, I remember that 09:24:28 i'm sorry, it is impossible that anyone else in the channel could be old enough. you must be mistaken. 09:24:48 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 09:29:32 except that btiggins guy. he's, like, precambrian. from when they called it the precambrian. 09:29:59 it's a bit funny how dos seems sooo old, but unix doesn't even though it's actually much older 09:33:30 actually it seems the word precambrian is still used. and windows 8's terminal window still supports @echo off . 09:33:53 it seemed to disable the prompting. 09:34:39 but still, the hadean is the best eon name. 09:34:45 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:35:25 The Precambrian accounts for 88% of geologic time. 09:37:02 yeah but there was no one around who cared 09:39:52 Make is older than MS-DOS. Not that I know how early in the history of Make the @ prefix appeared. 09:47:28 wow this @ prefix discussion was also happening 11 hours ago when i quit 09:47:52 i'm imagining it has been going on all that time, heatedly 09:48:24 nooodl: i'm afraid i just restarted it by logreading 09:48:57 `? nooodl 09:49:00 nooooooooodl is the correct spelling 09:55:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:57:48 the very first version of make appears to have @ too 10:00:08 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:03:20 -!- augur has joined. 10:19:27 -!- douglass has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:06:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:06:59 -!- augur has joined. 11:11:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Fnörðurinn). 11:49:56 -!- dessos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:31 -!- dessos has joined. 12:03:56 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:10:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:14:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 12:18:41 Hi 12:33:31 -!- yorick has joined. 12:34:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:44:54 -!- audioPhil_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 12:45:17 -!- audioPhil has joined. 12:45:17 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 12:45:17 -!- audioPhil has joined. 12:54:19 -!- conehead has joined. 13:04:13 -!- audioPhil has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 13:04:34 -!- audioPhil has joined. 13:04:34 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 13:04:34 -!- audioPhil has joined. 13:13:34 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:23:14 -!- Bike has joined. 13:32:07 "You have (1) new google document waiting" "click here" "http://www.banyuak.ac.th/googledoc.php" yeaaah. 13:32:33 heh 13:35:16 hm, .ac.th is "academic" but banyuak doesn't seem to be a thing 13:36:38 It's a 404, nice scam 14:47:26 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has joined. 14:47:39 Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ??? 14:47:39 Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet??? 14:47:39 هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟ 14:47:39 Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ??? 14:47:39 Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet??? 14:47:39 هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟ 14:47:39 Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ??? 14:47:40 Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet??? 14:47:41 هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟ 14:47:41 Do skype,yahoo,other chat and social communication prog (facebook&twitter) spy for Israel & usa ??? 14:47:42 Do they record and analyse everything we type on the internet??? 14:47:42 هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟ 14:47:43 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has quit (Excess Flood). 14:47:47 * copumpkin sighs 14:48:27 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has joined. 14:48:33 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has quit (Excess Flood). 14:48:56 the fuck 14:49:01 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has joined. 14:49:05 -!- hsdiuf8whfkjahfw has changed nick to twye76qercsahdfc. 14:49:05 -!- twye76qercsahdfc has quit (Client Quit). 14:49:17 i think i've seen this bot before 14:49:27 it's pretty good 14:50:53 are the timestamps messed up for anyone else?? 14:50:57 like 14:50:58 15:47:39 هل تتجسس برامج الشات و التواصل الاجتماعى لاسرائيل و امريكا؟؟؟؟ 14:51:01 oh 14:51:09 I guess it's putty's fault or something 14:51:10 elliott: that fucks up a bunch of mac clients 14:51:15 you should avoid it 14:51:23 oh, is there that unicode stuff in there? 14:51:27 it's invisible here :/ 14:51:27 yeah 14:51:34 sorry 14:51:44 doesn't seem to affect anyone in here 14:51:49 just pointing it out :) 14:54:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:01:20 @tell hsdiuf8whfkjahfw yes 15:01:20 Consider it noted. 15:04:57 If your client can't grok right-to-left Unicode, too fucking bad. 15:05:11 None of this "you should avoid it" crap. 15:05:15 You should get a non-shit client. 15:05:47 Gregor: there was some OS X/iOS bug where it crashes the client recently. 15:06:00 (not a client-specific bug, as far as I understand) 15:06:05 All the more reason to use it. 15:06:33 right, well, I got bored of being an asshole to people on the internet for no reason. 15:06:58 s/for no reason/because they use the wrong OS/ :) 15:09:24 :) 15:15:25 heh 15:15:36 if anything, OSX has the best text rendering and internationalization support of any OS 15:15:41 it just has a bug, which has now been fixed 15:15:53 but not everyone has upgraded, and assholes go from channel to channel trying to crash people 15:21:21 what's the text say? 15:21:41 the arabic i mean. 16:09:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:10:16 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:10 copumpkin: Yeah, it definitely is true that OS X has the best text rendering and i18n. 16:23:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:27:57 Some people say the fully feature-enabled freetype has better text rendering 16:28:19 I know people complain that fonts look fat on OS X 16:47:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:00:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:35:17 Program your client to filter Arabic texts or disable Unicode support, if necessary 17:36:20 I can’t stand OSX’s blurry style of text rendering. It’s fine when we finally have 300 DPI screens, but you just have to use hinting with 100 DPI screens for it not to be blurry. 17:36:40 Why don't you use screen fonts instead? 17:39:14 I don't use antialiased text on my computer 17:50:03 Proper subpixel antialiasing makes text rendering *sharper* than what 1-bit bitmaps can achieve on LCDs. 17:50:35 Yes, it can make it sharper 17:51:18 OSX doesn't antialias text 17:52:12 If it is subpixel antialiasing it can make it sharper 17:55:40 ion: Windows is horribly blurry as well 17:56:01 ion: I like the way fonts look on Linux 18:00:47 The reason such bugs in Arabic rendering is introduced is because Unicode is stupid 18:10:40 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:10:52 -!- Bike has joined. 18:13:05 Anyone willing to help me Verilog? 18:13:44 What are you doing with Verilog though? 18:14:44 Trying to write a module that converts a 4-bit bus into an 8-bit ssd bus. 18:15:25 I don't know what a ssd bus is. 18:16:15 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:16:23 seven-segment display. it doesn't really matter, the point is i'm trying to write a map. 18:16:29 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:16:32 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:16:44 But I apparently can't have a case on top level or something? I don't even know. 18:17:00 I don't really know much of Verilog, but I think there is a "primitive" block for defining custom primitive gates? 18:17:21 And then you can call it inside of a module like you can call other modules 18:17:32 well, putting an always removed those errors... 18:17:59 But "always" is for defining clock edge events, I think 18:19:15 I think having an empty sensitivity block makes it independent of any edge. 18:20:20 Maybe it can only drive registers though. I'll see. 18:20:41 I read somewhere about "primitive" block; did you try that? 18:20:52 Bike: basically there are two sorts of commands in VHDL/Verilog 18:21:29 ones that run continuously (like assign), and ones that only run in processes (like if) 18:21:37 hm 18:21:38 an always with no sensitivity is typically a bad thing, it only runs once 18:21:44 oh, shit. 18:21:48 how should i do this then? 18:21:50 ("always" was probably an unfortunate choice of name) 18:22:07 you shouldn't be using case, you should be using the appropriate keyword for continuous running 18:22:14 in VHDL it's when, but I'm not sure what it is in Verilog 18:22:25 i just want this module (trying out modularity here) to output 11000000 given 0000, 11111001 given 0001, that sort of thing 18:22:44 it's all constant but not very arithmetic 18:22:46 You could also just define each bit as the logic gates individually I suppose 18:23:01 geh, i'd really rather not, but i could. 18:23:11 in VHDL that's Q <= '11000000' when A = '0000' else '11111001' when A = '0001' else … 18:23:16 with better indentation 18:23:22 i guess i can do that for now though :( 18:23:29 (that doesn't fit well on IRC) 18:23:39 alternatively, you define an array, then index the array 18:23:52 I had different ideas of what I wanted in hardware programming language, so I called it "HWPL" 18:24:05 ais523: Do you know of "primitive" block in Verilog? Would that help? 18:24:06 maybe i'll just mail my ta, he knows verilog pretty well 18:25:10 i guess i could define a macro that converts the mapping into logic assignments, except the macros suck ass 18:25:42 really the clearest way to do it is the array method, I think, but I have no idea what that looks like in Verilog 18:26:00 the when/else chain is entirely reasonable and will synthesize correctly, though 18:26:12 and the commands almost certainly exist in Verilog, I just don't know what they're called 18:26:33 zzo38: I don't see why you wouldn't just use a module 18:26:38 are you that annoyed at having to give it a name? 18:27:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:31:12 whatever, i guess i'll write something in another language to make verilog code for me. again. 18:51:55 `slist [s] 18:51:58 slist [s]: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 18:55:36 ais523: That isn't what I meant 18:57:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:59:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:59:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 19:10:28 -!- douglass has joined. 19:11:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:15:06 freefull: Yeah, FreeType’s full hinting does the right thing for today’s low-resolution displays. ClearType™ is worse and the rendering in OSX is even worse. 19:18:47 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:23:08 -!- Bike has joined. 19:30:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:42:48 I've always found FreeType's default hinting annoyingly spindly. 19:45:12 I really think better would be to use screen fonts (fix pitch low resolution bitmap fonts); if you require to use same font for screen and print, then you can prerender them into a bitmap font instead, using an external program. 19:50:28 The latter's no different from just using a font rendering library... 19:52:34 I still think prerendering them would be better though, so the program can expect use with screen fonts instead, and you can change their prerendering externally too 19:53:07 -!- benludi has joined. 19:53:08 -!- yorick has joined. 19:53:32 i am really, really bad at verilog 19:53:56 Bike: I don't think I am that good at it either really 19:54:35 Bike: you're better at it than me. Because I don't know anything about Verilog. 19:54:55 sgeo, why are you saying this thing that you have said 19:55:38 "segs0[7] in unit module_test is connected to the following multiple drivers" like, what 19:56:39 i just have segs0 being the target of an instantiated module, and that module jjust assigns [7] to 1! 19:57:51 I would do it in "HWPL" by making a "ROM" block, but that is only ideas I write about, not a programming language with existing implementation 19:59:09 and my stupid ide does shit like say that the module is empty instead of that it's full of errors 19:59:09 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:59:41 -!- Bike has joined. 19:59:41 hate this ide and compiler, also 19:59:47 whine whine whine 20:00:57 What ide and compiler are you using? Can you use a better one? 20:01:09 i can't. 20:02:38 -!- benludi has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:03:23 it does weird shit like check syntax when i save a file. 20:11:34 Bike: "multiple drivers" mean you connected it to two things 20:11:38 -!- s1 has joined. 20:11:39 when it's only supposed to be connected to one 20:11:46 yeah, i think i figured it out. 20:11:50 so the problem isn't with the thing you meant to connect it to 20:11:55 it's with the thing you didn't mean to connect it to 20:12:01 i had wire [7:0] segs0 = 8'b0; but i didn't need to initialize it. i was thinking of it like a reg. 20:13:00 -!- myname has joined. 20:13:59 Are you talking about Verilog? 20:14:04 yeah. 20:14:33 constant wires are typically not what you meant to do 20:14:36 i think it's working now, in which case i'll have done my first particularly substantial verilog design 20:14:53 ais523: yeah, i see that now. i had it as a reg before and tried to have a lower module output to it, which is not how things work 20:15:13 speaking too soon, ayep 20:15:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:15:48 Is Verilog even esoteric? 20:15:57 Just asking 20:15:57 lol it got all the way to bitgen before telling me i forgot to drive an output 20:16:03 i don't think it's very esoteric 20:16:15 Dear god someone sent me memoserv mesages 20:17:32 Bike: that's because not driving an output is entirely legit 20:17:34 if a little pointless 20:17:44 most FPGAs are entirely capable of just not connecting the output 20:17:56 not mine, apparently? 20:18:17 oh in that case that's why it didn't notice until bitgen 20:18:29 previous stages didn't know what sort of FPGA you were using 20:18:32 right, ok 20:21:08 holy shit, it's actually working. :D 20:21:25 uh, mostly. 20:32:56 yes, i am awesome. bow before me. 20:37:14 *bowing down* 20:37:23 damn straight 20:37:53 (i wrote a thing that displays the value input on the switches as hex on the display) 20:38:49 the sky is the limit for me, clearly. 20:40:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:40:28 Anyone programming False here? 20:42:19 ok... Brainfuck then? -_- 20:42:28 s1: I haven't programmed either for a while 20:42:35 apart from some quick BF in response to a question earlier 20:42:39 `welcome s1 20:42:41 s1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:42:41 I don't think I've programmed False ever, actually 20:42:53 but yeah, I'm disappointed at the lack of esodiscussion here 20:42:59 we're off topic a lot of the time, just so you know, not that we don't still talk about esolangs sometimes. i'm sure ais can- yep there we go 20:43:18 Bike: I left the channel because of the lack of offtopic discussion 20:43:54 err, lack of ontopic 20:44:03 well I hope it isn't regarded with dislike if I share some BF. 20:44:17 nah, nobody can reasonably dislike that (unless it's really bad BF) 20:44:23 what they'll mostly do is just ignore it :( 20:44:28 rather than talk about it like good little #esoteric denziens 20:44:34 I'll look at it, though 20:44:36 :☺) 20:44:44 sadly, BF is easier to write than to read 20:45:10 true that 20:45:40 Programmed Wolframs universe yesterday. (It's called that, right?) Anyone interested? 20:45:56 not sure what you mean by that 20:46:14 the "rule [number]" CA things? 20:47:07 turing machines are a better fit for BF than cellular automata 20:47:19 now I'm wondering how easy the 2,3 thing would be to make in BF 20:49:19 Not really rule [number] 20:49:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:50:02 sry, didn't find english version: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/EIDU-9_Wolframs_1-dimensionales_Universum.jpg 20:50:24 that's a cellular automaton 20:51:13 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:52:06 it is. But no rule whatever thing. Interested in BF code? 20:53:05 it's worth posting, I think 20:53:12 even though probably nobody would read it 20:53:19 might be worth linking it from the wiki, then probably someone would read it 20:53:27 maybe not immediately, but a few months from now 20:55:13 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11001067/Wolframuniversum.b 20:55:29 Changed the comments to english in last minute, hope grammar is good ;) 20:56:36 wow, that's really readable for BF 20:57:23 aww what a compliment thx ^^ 20:58:30 that's a pretty nice and simple way to do an if statement 20:58:41 what line? 20:58:42 actually I think I could probably improve my a>b again based on it 20:58:51 18, 24 20:58:59 one moment i have a BF file 20:59:42 for AB 21:00:09 but the runtime is bad. I wanted to use as few cells as possible 21:01:15 !bf +++++>+++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:01:18 H 21:01:23 !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:01:23 H 21:01:28 yeah, screwed it up as usual 21:01:33 I never get it right the first time :( 21:02:20 oh, same mistake as last time, too :) 21:02:30 what are you talking about? 21:02:31 !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:02:38 No output. 21:02:42 ? 21:03:27 !bf +++>+++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:03:27 ​@ 21:03:34 !bf +++++>+++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:03:35 A 21:03:37 yay 21:03:40 !bf ++++>++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:03:41 ​@ 21:03:47 !bf ++++++++++>++++++<[->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<]>>>++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 21:03:47 A 21:04:04 not sure if that's simpler than my last one or not 21:04:33 for the record, [->>+<[->[-]>+<<]>[->>+<<]>[-<<+>>]<<-<] is the less than 21:05:08 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 21:05:43 -!- Bike has joined. 21:06:58 ok, I suggest that I try to understand your code, while you look at mine. 21:07:00 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11001067/COMP%20kleiner%20gr%C3%B6%C3%9Fer%20gleich.b 21:08:14 I assume your last code was the most up to date. 21:09:07 they're just different tests of the same program 21:09:09 I'm putting it on the wiki ow 21:09:12 *now 21:10:17 And yes, my code only uses THREE cells to calculate AB. But as I said, the runtime is horrific. 21:15:04 here we go, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#z_.3D_x_.E2.89.A5_y 21:15:07 maybe that explanation is clearer 21:15:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:15:48 probably ought to fix that typo 21:16:02 which typo? 21:16:08 'lopo' for 'loop' 21:16:40 fixed 21:27:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:30:54 What is this magic that google.com is doing on Google Chrome where the search field is the address bar and there's no search field on the page? 21:32:36 trying to teach people to not have to go to Google to search, I guess 21:32:44 magic i'm not seeing 21:32:49 vertical integration is the best isn't it 21:36:51 Yeah, I was confused when it happened at first =P 21:37:13 it's not happening for me 21:37:52 Hmm 21:38:00 Only seems to happen when searching from address bar for me 21:38:03 do you have to be using Google™ brand Google Chrome™? 21:38:37 Don't know, but that's what I'm using 21:39:23 I predict you have something turned on in chrome://flags. 21:39:28 or are using a non-stable version 21:39:48 https://www.google.com/search?q=Test&oq=test&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j0l3.1442j0&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 21:39:51 btw it's extremely confusing that Firefox has a thing called "chrome" (and even a chrome:// protocol, I think) that has nothing to do with (and predates) Google Chrome 21:40:02 The espv=2 seems to be important to triggering it 21:40:04 in particular, "Enable Instant Extended API" 21:40:28 that URL briefly shows without the search field for me and then it appears when it fully loads 21:40:54 elliott: I have that option, it's set to default, but now at least I know what it's called 21:41:03 And that does sound like an apt description 21:41:43 Is this some publically described API? I .. hope so, but 21:42:38 Could be that it's not-existant on the Linux version 21:43:54 http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Search-Experiment-Removes-the-Search-Box-in-Chrome-Screenshots-332953.shtml 21:44:03 I'm on Windows. 21:44:09 shame 21:44:45 well, the alternative is OS X. 21:44:47 "The company has said that it will open up the APIs to other search providers though." 21:45:01 Is this the new browser wars? 21:45:14 Unstandard APIs that are only supported by one browser at first? 21:45:33 ok, I'm sorry, have you done any web dev in the past like decade 21:45:43 it's always shit. 21:45:47 it never changes. 21:45:54 elliott: no need to put a time limit qualifier on it at all, really 21:46:18 But to continue doing it, even knowing how much pain it's caused 21:46:42 have you heard of capitalism. 21:47:42 "no" 21:49:46 Is the API documented anywhere? :/ 21:50:11 web dev is way nicer now than a decade ago 21:50:22 also you were like 8 years old a decade ago 21:50:33 I was 8 years old and doing web dev actually 21:50:37 right 21:50:38 still 21:50:41 but yes there is a new browser war of the same sort as the old one with IE 21:50:55 the intro to The Tangled Web says as much 21:51:02 kmc: Firefox and Chrome are competing to see who can screw up faster? 21:51:17 it's just nonsense to suggest browsers ever stopped implementing stuff on their own without asking, except insofar as they stopped implementing stuff at all. 21:51:44 -!- dessos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:51:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:51:55 that's right 21:55:56 I want a Best Viewed With ViolaWWW button 21:56:32 god, the ide doesn't even do Home right. this is ridiculous 21:58:25 `slist 21:58:26 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 21:59:49 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:59:57 bais 22:06:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:07:19 -!- Bike has joined. 22:11:30 Did the conversation come back to brainfuck again after I left? 22:12:32 logs in the topic (i say this because i forget) 22:20:52 -!- dessos has joined. 22:24:10 -!- s1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:31:41 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:34 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:38:03 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:40:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:40:37 -!- Bike has joined. 22:43:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:43:55 "On a distant planet called Dakkam, a scientist named Hektu comes to believe that the sun going nova would destroy his world. In a last effort to save his family, he and his wife, Soja, have an infant son named Wundarr, whom they plan to save from their world's destruction. They place him aboard a ship that is able to maintain his life support as long as necessary, and then launch him into outer space. Hektu and Soja later make flight and are 22:44:02 captured and executed by the Internal Security Force to prevent them from alarming the populace. It is later found out that Hektu's apocalyptic prediction is incorrect, and that he sent his son away for nothing." 22:49:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:50:39 -!- iconmaster has joined. 23:08:52 -!- s1 has joined. 23:11:43 -!- s1 has quit (Client Quit). 23:13:52 -!- iconmaster has quit (Read error: No route to host). 23:14:08 -!- iconmaster has joined. 23:16:15 I still love the fact that in Perl you could change a variable to change what arrays started at 23:16:17 no matter how bad it turned out in practice 23:16:44 QBASIC can also change what array start at by the OPTION BASE command, but only 0 or 1 23:17:02 You can define individual arrays to start at whatever you want, though, and that can be useful 23:19:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:32 I can only assume many programs were sabotoged by setting $[ to things like 43979 23:23:32 Maybe it is 2013-09-15: 00:31:29 -!- conehead has joined. 00:32:07 iconmaster: In Pascal you choose what an array starts at for every array you make 00:32:42 So you can have one array whose indexes go from 3 to 6, and another one whose indexes go from 'c' to 'A' 00:32:59 Actually, make that 'A' to 'c' 00:33:04 Indexes that start at strings? That's wonderful 00:33:31 I bet the're just char bytes in disguise, though 00:33:59 iconmaster: In Pascal it's hard to tell a Char and a single-character String apart 00:34:40 Although they have different types and behaviour, the syntax for making one is the same 00:35:19 I don't think arrays can be indexed by strings though, AFAIK they can only be indexed by enums 00:35:53 I haven't written any Pascal in a while 00:36:48 int array_[16], *array = array_-1; /* "good" old (undefined) C trick for 1-based arrays */ 00:38:01 The insane things we'll do for arrays of the other style 00:38:13 I don't think that is actually undefined 00:38:22 FreeFull: Sure it is. 00:38:22 It is. 00:39:23 Accessing array[0] would be, but array[1] to array[16] should be defined 00:39:24 One may only have a pointer be equal to NULL, somewhere within an object, or one past the end of that object. And only one of those is a derefereceable pointer. 00:39:40 FreeFull: "Wwhen an expression that has integer type is -- subtracted from a pointer, -- [things what happen when it points inside the object]; otherwise, the behavior is undefined." 00:39:41 (why one past the end, I know not) 00:40:04 fizzie: Fair enough 00:44:48 pikhq: "An important endorsement of widespread practice is the requirement that a pointer can always be incremented to /just past/ the end of an array, with no fear of overflow or wraparound: SOMETYPE array[SPAN]; // ... for (p = &array[0]; p < &array[SPAN]; p++) This stipulation merely requires that every object be followed by one byte whose address is representable. -- In the case of p-1, on the other hand, an entire object /would/ have to be alloca 00:45:16 ... /would/ have to be allocated prior to the array of objects that p traverses, so decrement loops that run off the bottom of an array can fail. This restriction allows segmented architectures, for example, to place objects at the start of a range of addressable memory." (C99 rationale) 00:45:27 (Seems that I don't have splitlong.pl in autoloads.) 00:47:29 ("Widespread practice" is the reason for many things in the rationale.) 01:21:12 -!- ottianna has joined. 01:22:24 -!- ottianna has left. 01:26:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:30:34 True, C *is* speced so as to be at least compatible with nearly everything that compiled C at some point. 01:30:50 Thus why EBCDIC C exists. 01:31:56 I was wondering the other day which extant platforms (if any) don't have twos-complement signed integer overflow 01:32:07 I don't know of any general purpose CPUs in this category 01:32:14 That's actually a good question. 01:32:22 but DSPs often do saturating arithmetic, I think 01:32:34 (also some general purpose CPUs have instructions for saturating arithmetic, as well) 01:32:56 I assume people program DSPs in C because people program everything in C, but do they have saturating semantics for regular ints and such? 01:33:23 I think so? 01:33:34 I want to say no, but I suspect yes. 01:34:00 the heart says no but the mind says yes 01:42:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:44:23 -!- douglass has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:49:15 -!- CADD has joined. 03:05:20 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 03:33:39 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:01:32 -!- carado has joined. 04:16:16 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:20:02 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:25:37 -!- carado has joined. 04:33:33 `run tclsh 04:33:34 bash: tclsh: command not found 04:36:25 Heh, /usr/bin/primes has a bug. 04:36:41 Oh wait, it's /usr/games/primes. I should have known. 04:36:52 What bug does it have? 04:36:54 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 04:36:59 more like /usr/lames/primes 04:37:13 It prints 10000000079. 04:37:47 That's a pretty bad bug. 04:37:49 > 10000000079 `quotRem` 75329 04:37:51 (132751,0) 04:38:27 `primes 04:38:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: primes: not found 04:44:45 "Educated persons who read Ken Thompson’s “Reflections on Trusting Trust” throw up their hands in stoic resignation, as if they were confronted with some grim and immutable law of nature. But where is the law of physics which tells us that any computation must be broken up into millions of human-unintelligible instructions before a machine can execute it?" 04:44:49 * Sgeo facepalms 04:45:03 Ok, fine, get rid of the compiler--- you still need to trust the silicon at some point 04:45:31 the law of physics was under the couch the whole time 04:46:00 compiler-++ 04:46:12 `karma compiler- 04:46:17 compiler- has 0 karma. 04:46:17 @karma compiler- 04:46:17 compiler- has a karma of 0 04:46:42 your commitment to the karma system is admirable, shachaf, to someone, i'm sure 04:46:59 self-admiration is good enough for me 04:47:59 @karma blah 04:47:59 blah has a karma of 31338 04:56:13 Ok, it prints numbers whose second smallest positive factor is at least 65539. 04:56:22 Perhaps that was prime enough for bsd. 04:57:34 that's prime enough for me most of the time, honestly 04:57:38 also: lol. 04:58:37 This may also explain why it is much faster than my version of primes. 05:18:53 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:21:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:26:47 -!- carado has joined. 05:33:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:44:43 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:45:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:57:19 http://i.imgur.com/pDxdwpb.jpg 06:18:05 If a pizza place gives me a slice of pizza on the house, is that likely to be just a thing they do for regular customers or might they be assuming stuff about my financial status? 06:18:33 you got some kinda problem with hobos, motherfucker 06:19:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:29:05 Why does Wikipedia always try to enter secure mode? 06:29:58 According to Wikipedia: The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience states that some principles of feng shui are "quite rational", while noting that "folk remedies and superstitions... [have been] incorporated into feng shui's eclectic mix". 06:33:45 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:35:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:42:40 -!- Nets has joined. 06:44:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:59:40 -!- Nets has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:00:37 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:21:31 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:36:46 -!- mnoqy has joined. 08:37:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:46:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:48:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:48:30 -!- Bike has joined. 09:02:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:08:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:10:08 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:11:13 -!- Bike has joined. 09:21:59 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:29:12 @tell s1 it is. But no rule whatever thing. Interested in BF code? <-- it's code 20 in wolfram's number scheme for _totalistic_ 1d automata (2 colors, size 5 neighborhood). 09:29:12 Consider it noted. 09:29:32 @tell ais523 it is. But no rule whatever thing. Interested in BF code? <-- it's code 20 in wolfram's number scheme for _totalistic_ 1d automata (2 colors, size 5 neighborhood). 09:29:32 Consider it noted. 10:07:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:22:42 -!- yorick has joined. 10:23:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:31:48 :t (??) 11:31:49 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:35:28 :t (<*>) . pure 11:35:29 Applicative f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 11:35:36 :t (<*>) 11:35:37 Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 11:35:42 Oh, right 11:35:54 :t ap (<*>) pure 11:35:55 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 11:35:55 a0 = f0 (a0 -> b0) 11:35:55 Expected type: f0 (a0 -> b0) -> f0 a0 11:35:59 :t ap (<*>) . pure 11:36:00 Applicative f => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b 11:36:39 That didn't do what I thought it would do 11:36:53 what did you think it would do 11:37:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:37:35 the ap is probably in the -> Monad, unlike the rest 11:37:57 Yeah, I did expect ap to be in Reader 11:38:11 ap = (<*>) for any sensible Monad/Applicative type 11:38:21 I'm trying to get something that matches (??) type signature pointfree 11:38:44 well you should note that it only uses Functor. 11:38:54 Oh, right 11:39:39 @pl \a b -> fmap ($b) a 11:39:42 flip (fmap . flip ($)) 11:39:42 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 11:39:43 :t \a b -> fmap ($b) a 11:39:44 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:40:10 @pl seems still broken. 11:40:47 :t flip $ \b -> fmap ($b) 11:40:48 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:41:09 :t flip (fmap . flip id) 11:41:09 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:41:28 i'm spoiling again, ain't i 11:41:53 I don't think you can actually simplify flip id away 11:42:10 indeed, that's pretty simple 11:43:32 :t (??) (fmap . (??) id) 11:43:33 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:44:12 Using ?? to define ?? probably wouldn't work well 11:44:25 shocking 11:49:05 @type let (???) = (???) (fmap . (???) id) in (???) 11:49:06 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: b0 = f0 b0 11:49:06 Expected type: ((f0 (f0 b0) -> f0 b0) -> f0 (f0 b0) -> f0 b0) 11:49:06 -> (f0 (f0 b0) -> f0 b0) -> f0 b0 -> b0 11:49:33 Taneb: i think that's polymorphic recursion 11:50:06 :/ 11:50:23 @type let (???) = (???) (fmap . (???) id); (???) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b in (???) 11:50:24 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 11:50:45 > let (???) = (???) (fmap . (???) id); (???) :: Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b in (???) div 2 4 11:50:46 *Exception: stack overflow 11:50:57 > div ?? 2 $ 4 11:50:59 2 11:51:24 :t let f1 = (??); f2 = (??); f3 = f1 (fmap . f2 id) in (f1, f2, f3) 11:51:25 Functor f => ((a -> a1 -> b1) -> a1 -> a -> b1, ((a -> b) -> a2 -> b2) -> a2 -> (a -> b) -> b2, f (a -> b) -> a -> f b) 11:52:38 :t \f1 f2 -> f1 (fmap . f2 id) 11:52:38 Functor f => ((a -> f a1 -> f b) -> t) -> ((a2 -> a2) -> a -> a1 -> b) -> t 11:54:12 -!- Bike has joined. 12:02:13 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:31:39 -!- Zuu has joined. 12:42:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:45:22 I have came to the conclusion I am not very good at the Hello World quiz 12:45:53 Oh, that's not fair... 12:53:47 what quiz? 13:02:00 http://helloworldquiz.com/ 13:02:17 `quote wine 13:02:23 820) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 13:07:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:12:35 it's true 13:12:49 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:12:55 whether or not something works in wine is entirely nondeterministic 13:15:36 -!- Bike has joined. 13:51:56 I should replace gnome with wine, then. 14:20:32 -!- conehead has joined. 14:28:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:32:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:36:28 -!- Bike has joined. 14:42:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:43:11 I can't seem figure out how to type ς̂ into LibreOffice. 14:43:17 Copy-pasting it in drops the hat. 14:44:43 Well, not exactly "drops", since it is still there (backspacing over it takes an extra step), but it's not visible. 14:46:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:02:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:22:16 -!- trout has changed nick to function. 15:22:57 -!- Bike has joined. 15:33:04 -!- iconmaster_ has joined. 15:37:06 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:54:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 15:54:43 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:54:44 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:06:45 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:10:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:14:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:21:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:47:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:57:01 I wonder if any humans ever used merge sort when manually sorting some things 17:58:09 No, but there are many computer science freshmen 18:00:59 If you are given a deck of cards and asked to sort it, maybe using merge sort wouldn't be a bad idea 18:01:29 Rather than category sort or whatever the standard human sort is 18:01:34 mostly when sorting things (in a computer or in person) you have more information than just pairwise less-than 18:01:38 and you can use that to be faster 18:02:22 True 18:02:34 Surely you would sort a deck of cards using the patience game 18:02:44 Sorting a deck of cards is probably O(n) 18:02:44 I think I end up using selection sort when I sort? 18:02:49 I thought I remember hearing that was what humans usually use 18:03:00 because, like, in a hand of cards, moving a card is a lot harder than finding the minimum 18:03:07 since you can do the latter with your eyes, right? 18:03:13 so if findmin() is super fast but moving is slow, selection is good 18:03:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:03:42 what's the sorting algorithm called where you just give up and let it be messy >_> 18:03:47 Fiora: I tend to put the current card into the corresponding pile and then just merge all the piles at the end 18:03:49 52 card pickup? XD 18:03:55 elliott: bogosort 18:04:41 The pseudo-sorting algorithm that works best is the one where you riffle the deck ten times to try and make the next game more random 18:05:11 Jafet: ooh patience sort 18:05:19 you can use that to implement a diff algorithm 18:05:42 But I've never needed to diff two decks of cards... 18:05:44 Shuffling works best when you have a reliable source of randomness 18:05:54 http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/73318.html 18:15:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:16:52 I have came to the conclusion I am not very good at the Hello World quiz <-- *MWAHAHAHA* 18:17:04 * oerjan needs to gloat about the few things he can. 18:19:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:21:52 If you are given a deck of cards and asked to sort it, maybe using merge sort wouldn't be a bad idea <-- i think for a deck of cards the obvious manual algorithm is to designate a spot on the table for each card and put it directly there. 18:22:29 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:27:00 Just scan through the deck and convert it to a permutation index in your head 18:28:32 oerjan, sorting algorithms can be much improved if you know in advance exactly which values you are sorting 18:28:43 yeah 18:29:14 Like, O(this isn't even really an algorithm) 18:29:45 Well, the way you described is probably O(n) 18:29:45 Throw away the useless unsorted deck and snort out a sorted one from your nose 18:33:18 sounds like a trick 18:39:42 "quicksnort" 18:41:08 O(balls) 18:41:29 What would be a Haskell class having (w x -> m x), (w x -> w (w x)), (w (x -> m y) -> w x -> w y)? 18:46:21 -!- function has changed nick to variable. 18:52:43 http://aem1k.com/world/ 18:53:21 oerjan: Yeah, spot sort would be the fastest 18:56:00 killall killall& killall killall& killall killall& killall killall& killall killall& killall killall& killall killall& 18:57:13 hm, why is it that every so often I search for "CHROMEBOOK TURN OFF CAPS LOCK" 18:57:13 you know the thing where you're using a solaris computer and you type killall out of habit 18:57:22 shachaf: actually no 18:57:47 and I learnt UNIX on SunOS 18:58:03 with a version of Mozilla so old that it blanked Wikipedia's Talk:Main Page once 18:58:20 shachaf: I know about the thing, but no-one I know has actually done that afaik 18:58:29 at least it was only the talk page 18:58:35 Gracenotes: yeah 18:58:45 I actually use to have perms to edit Wikipedia's Main Page 18:58:49 but never found a reason to do so 18:59:12 (although I did start a large campaign to rename it that ultimately ended in failure) 18:59:17 everyone is like "let's use templates" and also "let's use bots" 18:59:51 the templates were a good idea 19:00:03 the bots are at least a reasonable idea, although I can see some downsides 19:00:04 shachaf: I never use killall, I use pkill instead 19:00:20 I'm so used to using pkill, sometimes I use pkill on process numbers 19:00:25 it doesn't work 19:05:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:05:36 Whose might is riptide and undertow / There's no escaping from Ohio 19:10:08 oregon is bad / stop it if you can 19:10:49 where's the rhyme 19:11:07 ask john linnell 19:31:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:40:43 I have thought about Newcomb's and I see that statistically speaking, if they know 99% accurately which one you picked, you can calculate the expected value is better with one box. However, statistically speaking is not the only way to speak! 19:43:04 ais523: rename it to what? 19:43:24 Is there any reason that storebought mac and cheese would be any less healthy than making pasta and cheese myself? 19:44:22 Sgeo: Perhaps depending how it is make? 19:47:59 Sgeo: well, i suspect that in some sense the storebought will be healthier 19:48:15 they invent special fake cheese with more vitamins 19:48:24 but the homemade will probably taste better 19:48:46 I think the storebought tastes better 19:49:04 And also, there's the factor of how much time it takes to make... 19:49:30 you aren't making it right then 19:51:14 store mac+cheese is not guaranteed to come from a cow at any point 19:51:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:51:25 if that's the kind of property you want 19:51:45 the reason why storebought takes better is because they add a bunch of microscopic things your tastebuds like. 19:52:20 The properties I want: Not going to kill me if I eat it every night for dinner, and fast to make. And not too expensive, but if mac and cheese violates the first property, I'm open to more expensive stuff 19:53:08 and stuff to improve creaminess, even when it gets cold, and just the right amount of congealing. 19:57:04 i would not recommend eating kraft dinner for every dinner 19:57:42 quintopia: why not? 19:58:28 it's far from a balanced diet. it's missing a lot of essential shit. it's really not much more than carbs and sodium, and a little fat too if you use whole milk 19:59:35 Is pasta and real cheese any better? 19:59:47 Is (real) pizza any better? 20:00:11 pizza usually has tomatoes, which should at least make scurvy less likely 20:01:01 Also, I do eat lunch, consisting of usually a hamburger (could be chicken too) 20:01:31 quite possibly "eat the same thing every night for dinner" is incompatible with "balanced diet". 20:01:47 what if you eat a magic concoction of every possible good thing 20:01:52 Sgeo: can I convince you to see an actual nutritionist? like, it'll be slightly better than #esoteric at the very least. 20:01:53 in just the right balance 20:02:38 elliott: I spoke to a nutritionist once, I should do that again 20:03:22 copumpkin: istr there is a couple of healthy foodstuffs, one of which neutralizes the health benefit of the other if you eat/drink them simultaneously. i don't quite remember what they were, though. 20:04:00 or well, some mineral or something which cannot be absorbed if you have the other thing simultaneously. 20:07:31 hmm, interesting 20:09:24 i have vague bells on either calcium, iron or c-vitamins as one of them. 20:09:41 (the one that cannot be absorbed) 20:10:44 oh it was coffee and calcium 20:10:51 iron and calcium 20:10:56 no, it's iron and calcium 20:11:01 wat 20:11:05 i remember from when we were mocking that soylent idiot 20:11:41 well i find google hits on coffee and calcium. but there might be other incompatible things, of course. 20:12:26 ais523: rename it to what? ← Portal:Main 20:12:34 i vaguely recall that iron and calcium soylent thing too, though. 20:12:46 ais523: that's a terrible name :P 20:12:54 quintopia: well it's the correct namespace 20:13:05 [[Main Page]] should be an encyclopedia article 20:13:14 quintopia: he is now waiting for someone to make up something called "Main Page", so they _have_ to move it. 20:13:16 correct and user-friendly are frequently at odds 20:13:45 or else get an ugly disambiguation notice in the main page 20:14:01 I'm going to name my daughter Main Page and hope she gets famous 20:14:09 perhaps Main Page is just another name for brainfuck 20:17:10 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:17:14 quintopia: is Page your real surname 20:17:32 that would make things easier. 20:17:56 Page sounds like Paige, which is a reasonable girl's name 20:18:27 but i'm afraid Jimmy Page didn't have any kids named Main, so 'oh well' on that front 20:20:30 I wonder if there's a Jimmy somewhere authoring Jimmy's Jimmy Page Page 20:20:37 we could start a band called Main Page 20:20:38 quintopia: well things being in the wrong namespace mean that you need exceptions all over the place 20:21:56 doesn't having a 'Portal:' namespace create potential conflicts with 3D platforming puzzle games? 20:22:38 say, if they made a movie 20:22:43 Portal: The Movie 20:23:54 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ø_(Disambiguation) 20:24:39 quintopia: yeah, there are namespace / pagetitle clashes on occasion 20:24:48 the most infamous was [[:coolCat]] 20:25:05 which broke the database in random ways for months 20:25:33 eventually I think they had to modify the database manually to get rid of it 20:32:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Portal 20:35:10 quintopia: I don't think there's a user-friendliness issue here; who manually types /Main_Page into their browser? 20:35:37 people just get there from http://en.wikipedia.org or more likely from Googling something and later clicking the globe logo 20:36:38 people have bookmarks, [[Main Page]] will never point anywhere else 20:36:47 fuck them and their bookmarks 20:36:58 kmc: the problem is existing links 20:36:59 but you could at least have it be a redirect to Portal:Main 20:37:01 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=%s 20:37:15 wut 20:37:17 in particular, read the talk page 20:37:20 kmc: that's what I was suggesting 20:37:40 ais523: why does it link to a page that redirects to the Main Page at the top rather than the actual main page...? 20:37:43 why am I trying to understand Wikipedia?? 20:37:50 whykipedia 20:38:17 elliott: because [[Main Page]] is in the wrong namespace for a Wikipedia-internal-specific disambiguation hatnote 20:38:22 anyway, if you bookmark Wikipedia then you'll end up with it linking to /wiki/Main_Page in like 99.999% of cases 20:38:23 and the bots would thus get confused 20:38:33 so that's a lot worse than breaking the search shortcut thing 20:38:46 this is boring though :V 20:39:58 anyway, I think you're inadvertently arguing for moving the Main Page, there :) 20:41:03 oh, I also wanted to rename the Main Page to the null string, but apparently the developers were unwilling to make that possible 20:46:33 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:05:09 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:26 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:11:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:17:07 -!- iconmaster_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:44:19 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:45:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:59:20 -!- iconmaster has joined. 22:28:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:33:27 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 22:55:40 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:03:50 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:08:16 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:08:31 My computer was off, sorry 23:10:10 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:25:36 You are forgiven. 23:27:09 zzo38, thank god you're back, there was a major crisis brewing 23:29:54 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:32:00 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:32:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:32:46 Do you know of any compiler MML -> .MOD? 23:34:22 Phantom_Hoover: What kind of crisis is that? 23:34:35 well the details aren't important now 23:40:51 crisis on infinite earths 23:43:44 that sort of thing, yes 23:46:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Well this Earth is finite so we are fine.). 23:49:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 2013-09-16: 00:12:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:17:46 -!- conehead has joined. 00:28:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:51:35 My character may join "Aberration Saver". What would you think of such thing like that? 01:07:55 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:15:27 what does it even mean 01:16:36 I don't know if it can be explained so easily, sorry 01:17:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:17:17 But I can try to explain it a little big 01:17:20 s/big/bit/ 01:17:39 it's hard to know what we think of such thing like that if we don't know which thing it is 01:17:56 kmc: Yes, I know, but I thought you might know 01:18:04 I can try to explain in a minute 01:18:23 It is related to the god Gxxyuxihuvxi 01:18:40 this is a good explanation. 01:18:58 It is the patron deity of my character 01:19:11 the patron deity of consonants 01:19:48 It is the society to save such creatures, which can be against opposing society but they don't necessarily have some patron deity 01:21:38 It is difficult to pronounce so sometimes they call "The god who shall not be named because is difficult to pronounce". 01:23:17 hahaha 01:23:19 good god 01:23:25 "It has a very high vapor pressure, for a metal" 01:25:36 If you watch how I play the Dungeons&Dragons game then maybe you can know kind of what kind of things I mean. 01:26:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:28:36 They are the god of good aligned aberration type creatures. Their holy and ritual and temple and so on are often considered confusing by others, however. 01:29:33 Sometimes even wrong, but, you have to think about it for yourself too, and see if it is sensible! 01:29:47 Even if it is simultaneously sane and insane, is also OK too. 01:30:06 Now do you like this? 01:30:16 kmc: What kind of metal do you mean? 01:51:51 mercury 01:52:53 O, that's what it is. 02:01:05 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 02:06:14 Have I explained enough now? 02:11:25 i guess i get it 02:12:36 OK 02:13:02 Would you have something to say about it then? 02:13:51 i don't know enough about your play style 02:14:03 i'd have to watch you play 02:15:52 You could read the recording of the game, and/or to ask question, answer, complaint, comment, confusing, and thinking. 02:17:31 I would say, I often do unusual kind of things, I suppose. 02:18:34 For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. 02:19:53 how will you attack the darkness 02:20:20 By surprise! 02:20:47 i can respect that answer 02:21:14 My character can see in dark anyways (usually; sometimes there is magical darkness that you can't see, but I have ways to get around that too and it depend on circumstances) 02:21:38 are you a wizard? 02:21:44 Yes 02:21:51 so is harry potter 02:21:53 Although often the things I do are not spell casting anyways 02:23:15 A lot of things rather have to do with items, such as cat fur, rusty nails, bone, stone, lock picks, astrolabe, rope, IOU, and so on. 02:23:35 The DM thought the astrolabe would be completely useless, but, I used it. 02:23:55 `addquote For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 02:23:59 My character sheet is available on the computer though 02:23:59 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 02:24:28 I usually don't need to attack the darkness though 02:26:52 It is usually bright areas that we attack 02:27:09 Simply because the opponent would not attack if they cannot see! 02:27:19 zzo38: can you pick locks in real life or only in the dungeons & dragons game 02:27:27 zzo38: maybe the opponent has magical sight 02:27:37 Only in the game. 02:27:57 kmc: Yes, if they do have magical sight, or just if they can naturally see in dark, then they can, but my character can see in dark too 02:28:06 But is not very good at combat 02:28:07 the opponent has termorsense 02:28:09 you are dead 02:28:19 eaten by a grue 02:28:24 or an object mimic 02:28:54 I have managed to escape far more severe situations than that 02:29:34 have you? or was it your character? 02:30:21 if you've been mugged by a crack addict with a pistol in the middle of the night, i'll concede you've survived grue-level challenges 02:33:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:36:03 Apparently, 1 bowl of mac and cheese is not a sufficient dinner 02:36:38 According to my still hungry stomach 02:43:48 i could have told you that 02:44:01 you need a box of velveeta shells and cheese with broccoli 02:44:13 and mix some tuna or spam into it 02:44:20 that'll fill you right up 02:44:40 I wonder if Stop&Shop would sell meat thermometers 02:45:00 So I could feel comfortable buying ... oh I don't know if fridge/freezer actually work 02:45:24 are you still in farmingdale or whatever 02:46:51 No, you have to read the recording to learn! 02:47:50 the recording wouldn't tell me whether you've been mugged by a canadian crack addict 02:53:45 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:00:00 quintopia: yes 03:00:06 Not in college anymoe 03:21:11 I have not been mugged by a Canadian crack addict and neither have my characters. 03:21:48 My playing style has sometimes been compared with Batman. 03:23:31 In the game, once my character was being captured, and I decided not to resist being captured; after all they were taking me to the place I was intending to go anyways. Sometimes deceptive tactics can help. 03:23:39 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:24:10 My tactics are rarely fighting. 03:28:01 They are more likely confusions, deceptions, preparation, defense, outsmarting opponent, and mainly thinking ahead a lot and using what we happen to have in the given situation. 03:28:19 For example, using the phase of the moon to your advantage, or the day of the week. 04:12:33 -!- carado has joined. 04:29:14 There are many reasons to avoid the use of magic in many situations, and this is what is done. It can include to save the magic for later, or to do other things that work even in anti magic field, to not allow others to identify the spell, and because magical things can go wrong and/or have less likely chances to work. 04:29:26 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to cocitrouille. 04:29:38 However, when magic is used, you have to do things such as taking advantage of the exact duration of the spell, and other side-effects. 04:33:07 Often, mundane things will do. 04:43:14 Such as, like I mentioned, phase of the moon, day of the week, astrolabe, slant of the floor, the arrangement of things in a room or of hallways and rooms in a building, mundane deception or lack of it, Sicilian reasoning, the style of writing of a book, the size and type of paper used to write a message, the current season, time of day, sunrise and sunset times, and a whole bunch of other things like that. 04:43:33 This is how you should learn to play the Dungeons&Dragons game! 04:44:54 Can you play the game like this? 05:00:50 It isn't like chess, where you have to act every turn; you are allowed to pass your turn, and it is often useful to do so. 05:04:07 You can save someone by retreating instead. 05:06:25 In the manga "Kaiji", Kaiji manages to beat a pachinko game partially by the floor being slanted because of someone doing construction nearby. 05:42:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:44:37 -!- cocitrouille has changed nick to copumpkin. 06:06:42 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 06:45:44 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:12:13 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:34:13 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:40:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:44:45 I woke up this morning in a mathsy mood 07:45:00 Finally worked out /why/ you can get the Fibonacci series from Pascal's triangle 07:45:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:56:29 Which gives me a weird idea for a Fibonacci sequence program 07:57:25 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:07:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:15:48 "Special course in Language Technology: Language, Motion and Emotion" ... "The course is multi- and interdisciplinary --" 09:03:52 "NOTE! currently system is at most 8*65536 bytes long. This should be no problem, even in the future. I want to keep it simple. This 512 kB kernel size should be enough --" (linux-0.01 bootloader comment) 2.4M /boot/vmlinuz-3.10-2-amd64 (Debian testing) A bit of a discrepancy there. 09:13:12 and those 2.4MB is the compressed size! (maybe the 512kB were too?) 09:14:26 I don't think the 0.01 code does decompression. 09:15:14 Something else I learned: the current boot sector header of the (x86) kernel just prints "Direct floppy boot is not supported. Use a boot loader program instead." and reboots: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/x86/boot/header.S 09:15:31 I was sort of assuming there still was a vestigial boot loader there. 09:21:11 I wonder if they tried removing it completely first but then got tons of bug reports about corrupt kernels not being bootable 09:25:59 It said "Direct booting from floppy is no longer supported. Please use a boot loader program instead." -- a slightly different wording -- in bugger_off_msg in Jun 20, 2012. 09:29:36 Huh, it didn't support floppy boot in 2009 when zImage support (in addition to bzImage -- which is still gzip, I understand it's a common misconception to think it's bzip2) was dropped. 09:29:48 And in fact it did not support floppy boot in 2007 either. 09:30:17 Nor in 2005, which is as far back as github's history view of bootsect.S goes. 09:32:23 (Back to 2.6.12, which seems to be the first Git-managed kernel. Well, maybe LXR knows more.) 09:34:51 2.5.64 still supports floppy boot, and 2.5.65 already has the "not supported" error message. 09:34:54 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:36:16 That's a quick change 09:36:35 "Summary of changes from v2.5.64 to v2.5.65" "Peter Anvin : bootsect removal" 09:39:08 I've already removed my boot sector and I'm not even at 0.01 09:39:38 Curiously enough, 2.5.64 itself changes bootsect.S by adding the value 21 to the 'disksizes' (supported sector/track numbers) array. 09:40:11 I have a feeling perhaps that change prompted someone to get rid of the whole thing. 09:43:21 http://sprunge.us/KXBH best thing? 09:59:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 10:04:51 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:18:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:25:56 @tell zzo38 I have also started seeing the thing where wikipedia tries to change to https automatically. I kind of like it. I think it's set by the "Always use a secure connection when logged in" preference. 10:25:56 Consider it noted. 10:30:58 bleh, reading proggit is making my hatred of github less irrational 10:31:02 should I be annoyed at this? 10:35:45 how does proggit affect your opinion of github? 10:36:26 there's someone reporting on how they managed to send 300,000 emails in 4 minutes /accidentally/ because they were trying to migrate an issue tracker to Github 10:36:33 also that it turns out that there's no other way to do it 10:37:09 Also, git. 10:37:23 yeah, git is suboptimal as a VCS 10:37:29 but it won, somehow 10:37:36 Yeah, I find that flabbergasting. 10:37:44 Since it's hideously unusable. 10:38:08 git story: I spent like an hour last night trying to figure out a git command to print the hash of HEAD 10:38:23 I'm not sure if there's any 100% reliable way to do it, and there's no /obvious/ way to do it 10:38:25 hg story: hg id 10:38:32 Oh, for HEAD 10:38:34 hg id -r tip 10:38:39 my current best solution is git log --pretty=format:%H -1 10:38:47 lul 10:39:17 Yeah, git is honestly the worst thing ever. I have to assume that there was malicious intent in its design, because even programmers can't eff up UIs that badly. 10:39:29 Gregor: the actual explanation is that it doesn't have a UI 10:39:42 it has a programming API, which they planned to build a UI on top of 10:39:47 but never got round to it 10:39:52 so people started using the API directly 10:40:33 What I find most perplexing is that people actually think git is usable. 10:40:38 People who use it. 10:40:50 I know I'm not insane, so I'm forced to conclude that they are. 10:41:03 I find it "usable" in the sense of "possible to use" 10:41:09 I don't. 10:41:11 but not in the sense of "usability" 10:41:11 I use hg-git. 10:41:26 I guess git is the C of version control systems 10:41:42 it lets you do just about anything, but at the expense of needing a lot of complexity to do anything 10:42:07 I find that even without any guidance, it's easier to do everything in hg-git VIA A REPOSITORY FORMAT TRANSLATION than it is to do the same in git with github's help pages. 10:42:09 (personally I prefer darcs) 10:42:20 also github don't understand git, AFAICT 10:42:31 they have a github client for Windows that is incapable of doing some of the most basic operations 10:43:01 ais523_: "git rev-parse HEAD" not doing it? 10:43:01 I used to use darcs, switched to hg because it was good enough and more popular, looked at git and cried for a generation of programmers. 10:43:20 fizzie: I thought I tried that, not at a computer with git on right now so I can't check 10:43:31 perhaps it was something similar I tried 10:43:40 It works in the one repository I tried. 10:43:53 Anyway, I now manage everything on bitbucket/hg and have it automatically cloned to github :) 10:44:00 I recommend this solution for everyone. 10:44:10 I don't, it involves having contact with github 10:44:22 ais523_: The problem is, lots of services that want to be trendy are github-only. 10:44:33 well that just makes them easier to ignore :) 10:44:52 Thanks to having a github clone, I can have all my tests run automatically on every push; and I don't have to touch github itself except on initial commit. 10:45:30 Although Google recruiters have only tried to pick me up over my /bitbucket/ activity, so I guess at least the recruitment world isn't github-only. 10:45:42 Gregor: they tried to pick me up over something, and I have no idea what 10:45:49 just "we see you are active in Open Source" 10:46:04 Heh 10:46:14 which could be anything from the smallish patches I have in Gnome, to C-INTERCAL 10:47:03 What I find hilarious is how the Google pick-up artists clearly don't go one step further, to "oh you publish stuff relevant to us" 10:47:17 Their whole process is "clearly we don't give a shit about research, but you can be a code monkey, boy" 10:48:05 `quote 1105 10:48:10 well I assumed it was an automated process 10:48:10 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 10:48:38 `run sed -i '1105s/ No output. 10:48:44 ais523_: Not /entirely/. Probably the initial selection is, but if you're polite and reply "no thank you" then you get a human. And further contact. FOREVER. 10:48:45 `quote 1105 10:48:46 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 10:48:55 * oerjan swats kmc -----### 10:49:07 Gregor: I told them that I was busy doing a PhD, and check back in 4 years 10:49:14 I'm waiting to see if they do or not 10:49:28 ais523_, how is your PhD going? 10:49:48 Taneb: decently, although I'm annoyed at the lack of research to build upon 10:50:07 it feels like I have to do all the fundamental research myself just so that I can do the research I actually want to do 10:50:09 ais523_: Hahaha 10:50:19 If I remember correctly, it's something that I am afraid that I am not particularly interested in 10:50:30 We just sent a 14-page reply letter for reviewer comments about a 12-page paper, in the interests of being thorough. 10:50:37 and meanwhile, my supervisor's asking why I'm writing a paper about formalizing delay-insensitive asynchronous hardware rather than working on my thesis 10:51:17 `run grep '[^ ] <' quotes 10:51:19 IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, 10:51:30 `run grep '[^: ] <' quotes 10:51:32 what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation I have no problems with you being interested in online games but the necrophilia is disturbing \ (in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ GOODBAD! Your wate 10:51:41 `run grep '[^]: ] <' quotes 10:51:43 ​(in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! \ < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring 10:52:10 `run allquotes | grep '[^]: ] <' 10:52:11 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 4) that's where I got it roc 10:52:17 darn 10:52:43 Taneb: you should be intrested in this stuff anyway, it's interesting! 10:52:55 `run grep '[^]: ] <' quotes | tail 10:52:57 678) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love 187) Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. what whaaaaaaaaaaaat \ You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theor 10:53:24 I have a feeling I don't know enough context for its interest to become apparent, ais523_ 10:53:56 Having not yet begun to receive any formal education in computer science 10:54:18 Taneb: well basically it's about type systems that require specific useful-for-hardware properties on programs that type in them 10:54:32 Oooh 10:54:35 things like "there is never more than one copy of this function running concurrently" 10:55:20 (my first lecture is in 3 weeks) 10:56:10 and it's interesting because maths doesn't have a notion of, say, "simultaneously", unless you add it into the type system yourself 10:56:15 `? quoteformat 10:56:17 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 10:56:26 (nor does it have a notion of causality; forgetting to put causality into your type system is an easy mistake to make) 10:57:07 My first CS lecture will be presented by one of the creators of Haskell 10:57:30 which one? 10:58:02 `echo @ 10:58:04 ​@ 10:58:13 Colin Runciman 10:58:35 Colin is the name for a dog. 10:59:10 @tell kmc `? quoteformat hth ​ 10:59:10 Consider it noted. 11:04:30 ...is it even possible to tear apart the very fabric of reality? 11:05:10 Taneb: even if it is, I wouldn't recommend doing so 11:05:43 It has just struck me how weird that cliché is 11:06:59 Finally worked out /why/ you can get the Fibonacci series from Pascal's triangle <-- wait what 11:07:26 oerjan, right align it and sum the left-down diagonals 11:07:53 Taneb: see the plot to "Schild's Ladder" 11:11:17 -!- yorick has joined. 11:12:11 hm right 11:12:16 btw, has #esoteric seen what's been happening with aimake recently? 11:12:20 it feels like a pretty eso project 11:15:30 the the README doesn't explain the ai part 11:15:33 *-the 11:16:20 oerjan: well it's not really AI 11:16:33 it's a cross between "it figures everything out automatically", and the first two letters of "ais523" 11:16:42 assuming you're looking at my aimake rather than someone else's 11:16:48 oh hm 11:17:35 sorry, went to the top google link, now i see no. 2 is on nethack4.org which seems more promising :P 11:17:40 yeah :) 11:17:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:17:52 that one's mine 11:18:09 it was at #2 even before I documented it 11:18:18 so I suspect it'll climb quickly if it starts being used for anything at all but NetHack 4 11:19:14 nah, how can you possibly compete with iOS and android integration, man 11:19:36 (only slightly joking there) 11:19:44 I guess I don't necessarily have to /compete/, I could just add support for them 11:19:52 devious 11:19:53 but that'd mean actually screwing around with mobile dev 11:22:07 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:26:44 Right, parts of DF don't really work at 80x25, can anyone suggest a larger but still "nice" terminal size? 11:27:07 G_64xG_64 11:27:58 -!- conehead has joined. 11:27:58 oerjan, "nice" suggests "feasible to run on a modern computer" 11:28:07 I thought "nice" suggested "accurate". 11:28:09 how quaint 11:29:36 fizzie, only for prophecies 11:30:00 i use 80x43 in putty. that's of course the maximal vertical height that fits with my desired font size. 11:30:24 You can have a nice 1920x720 terminal on a modern computer. (Just take a 2x2 grid of 3840x2160 monitors and put a 4x6 font on it.) 11:31:53 i think cassandra would have something to say about nice ~ accurate for prophecies, although no one would believe her of course. 11:32:10 My typical "two terminals" setup here at work seems to be 119x88. 11:47:01 @tell ais523 The HTMLization at http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/documentation.html seems to have made a mungle out of the levels of -v: levels >= 0 are missing the "titles", being just an unordered list. (In fact, the HTML has totally mismatched tags.) 11:47:01 Consider it noted. 11:48:30 Oh I remember dfhack, that game was not bad 11:49:29 Jafet, dfhack is a sort of cheaty tool for Dwarf Fortress 11:50:15 I don't know where you read that. dfhack is an urist management game based on the dwarf fortress simulation engine 11:52:09 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:52:22 come to think of it, aimake configuration files are probably Turing-complete 11:52:49 Is that like probably polynomial time 11:54:09 ais523_: I sent the underscoreless you a message. 11:54:17 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:54:21 @messages 11:54:23 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_. 11:54:39 fizzie: I actually fixed the -v mangle last night 11:54:41 jhust haven't 11:54:45 had a chance to push it yet 11:54:55 basically, pod2html seems really buggy 11:55:08 another bizarre thing it did was add semicolons to the URLs in the GPLv3 11:56:02 The links also include the > character in them, but that's perhaps understandable. 11:56:23 Oh, the semicolons are actually probably leftovers from the ">" that ends in the link. 11:56:44 "-- see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>;." 11:56:48 perhaps I should try to find (or write) a less buggy POD to HTML convertor than the one that ships with Perl 11:57:03 and oh wow, that's the worst escaping fail I've seen 11:57:08 it probably parses with regexes or something 11:57:31 I'm thinking it turns the > into > first, and then parses and locates links afterward, with a regex. 11:57:47 And "http://...blah>" looks quite linky. 11:57:59 yeah 11:58:27 the -v mangle is /technically/ my fault 11:58:34 the POD format spec says that you can't mix =item types in a single list 11:58:44 and -2 is free text, 0's a bullet, and 1's a number 11:59:12 I should have written Z<>0 to stop that being a bullet, but apparently pod2html treats that as a bullet anyway 12:00:21 (Z<>'s is pod's arbitrary no-op you use to work around parsing ambiguities) 12:01:26 I do like pod as a markup format, but it has some really nasty corner cases 12:01:43 The conflation of the C++ term "Plain Old Data" and the Perl term "Plain Old Documentation" is distracting. 12:02:59 I guess you could move to POC++O for C++ 12:03:02 just like POJO for Java 12:03:06 ("plain old Java object") 12:03:37 But pod != plain-old-object 12:03:46 In fact, plain-old-data is almost exactly NOT an object. 12:04:09 well yes 12:04:12 no methods 12:04:46 manual.tiff 12:19:39 "Never send chain letters via electronic mail. Chain letters are forbidden on the Internet. Your network privileges will be revoked." 12:20:49 actually, even better: ":-) is an example of a smiley (Look sideways)." 12:22:04 Oh bleh, apparently we're supposed to capitalize and punctuate correctly on IRC too. 12:22:30 `WeLcOmE 12:22:33 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 12:22:33 or perhaps not 12:22:50 that seems to be for when you're sending messages directly onto someone else's tty using write(1) 12:23:57 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:24:54 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:24:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:06 hmm... this is describing Gopher as new 12:26:14 also the WWW 12:26:32 ais523_: btw the -v list at http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/documentation.html looks like it should have had numbered rather than bulleted points 12:26:50 oerjan: it should be a definition list, and it does start as one 12:26:56 what happens beyond there is a bug in pod2html 12:26:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:09 which I've worked around locally by writing the items as -v-2, -v-1, etc. 12:27:13 -!- TodPunk has joined. 12:27:56 aha, I've found the IRC guidelines here 12:27:58 oops fizzie already mentioned it :) 12:27:59 they seem really sensible 12:28:20 and it seems that people pasting into IRC channels was a problem even in 1995 12:28:26 probably more of one, because pastebins didn't exist back then 12:29:33 -!- carado has joined. 12:39:01 'morning, everyone 12:39:02 ^^ 12:39:08 afternoon Roujo 12:39:16 That too 12:39:53 ais523_, link? 12:39:56 Hello, Roujo 12:40:05 Taneb: to what? 12:40:14 The IRC guidelines? 12:40:20 the netiquette guide I was quoting from is http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 12:40:32 it's an RFC, so it's all official and that 12:45:13 Yay for Funet FileSender, 2.6 gigs of stuffs fetched in a hundred seconds. 12:45:31 wow 12:45:31 Speaking of RFCs, I'm still waiting for those style files for fungot. :p 12:45:53 And speaking of fungot... 12:46:26 fungoooooooot! noooooooooo... 12:46:34 fungnoooot 12:46:40 pratchett.freenode.net is being a slow. 12:46:58 "NOTICE * :*** Got Ident response" and then not a thing. 12:47:20 Maybe it was some sort of timeouting open-proxy-check, who knows. 12:47:35 -!- fungot has joined. 12:47:39 it detected the ident as a known fugitive and is now telling Interpol. 12:47:50 *fungutive 12:47:51 fungot: what did you dooooooo? 12:47:52 oerjan: esoteric means not somewhat usable? ( preferrably one that does not have a philly accent! 12:48:17 fungot: hey don't you start agreeing with ais523_ 12:48:17 oerjan: i have a " format" function, how do you duplicate? 12:48:19 ha. philly accents. 12:48:44 why can't fungot agree with me? :-( 12:48:44 ais523_: i have no idea. i can write other of them 12:49:07 that sounded very zzolike 12:49:07 (also RFC 1855 puts the nose in smileys, therefore I now consider this to be official) 12:49:19 ais523_: because then he'll be leaving the channel most of the time! oh wait he's already started! 12:49:25 smileys with noses are ugly 12:49:35 Smileys with noses feel all quaint. 12:49:47 All 90s. 12:49:56 that too 12:50:07 :^) 12:50:14 well, pointy noses are okay 12:50:33 :v) 12:50:57 :3 12:51:04 :4 12:51:09 Wait 12:51:11 :4) 12:51:14 :9 12:51:22 :5 12:51:35 :#) 12:51:36 :420 12:51:40 Is ":5" like "drooling from the side of the mouth"? 12:51:54 Precisely 12:52:05 either that or some serious underbite 12:52:08 fizzie: no that's :2 12:52:37 huh that 2 makes a good gaunt nose 12:52:48 :2V 12:57:14 is there anything new and interesting in esotericland? 12:57:25 Possibly aimake? 12:58:02 well it's not new, I just mentioned it 12:58:06 I think it's TC in configuration 12:58:36 it seems to have everything necessary to be TC, although probably you'd hit a filename limit eventually and run out of storage 12:58:45 perhaps it's doable without touching the filesystem at all 13:00:13 what is aimake 13:00:29 quintopia, ais523_'s make replacement that needs much less config 13:00:59 a drop-in replacement? that sounds useful! 13:01:08 Not drop in 13:01:08 but where do i read about such a thing 13:01:16 From what I have heard, almost drop out 13:01:27 http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/ 13:02:37 well, it can arguably be drop-in, in that it can entirely ignore the makefile and work anyway 13:03:27 sounds good to me. will it be possible for it to do installation without config eventually? 13:03:59 quintopia, that future is now 13:04:06 oh 13:04:08 well 13:04:11 quintopia: actually it can almost do that now 13:04:13 then that page is otdated 13:04:22 however it sucks at choosing filenames for executables 13:04:25 and yes, that page is outdated 13:04:40 the filename-choosing logic is there, I just haven't hooked it up to the executable installer yet 13:04:59 i see no reason why it would be annoying to specify the filename in the installation command 13:06:09 because I'm used to projects that build multiple executables 13:07:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:08:06 but how do you go about coming up with filenames automagically? 13:09:02 fn1, fn2, fn3 13:09:03 grep for "namehint" in the config file 13:09:16 basically it works out which files have the largest weight in naming the executable 13:09:24 then takes the common prefix (both filename and directory name) 13:11:15 what does "largest weight" mean 13:11:17 -!- boily has joined. 13:11:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:12:13 well it tries to distinguish files that probably contain relevant code, from files that are probably libraries 13:12:29 the heuristic is that a file probably contains relevant code if it contains a main() function or any initialized read-write data 13:14:26 helloily 13:15:06 boillo =) 13:15:21 and namehints are created automagically also? 13:16:20 nothing's created automagically, except sys:, config_rule: and config_option: objects 13:16:30 you can read how they're created in the config file (at the end of the aimake script itself) 13:17:20 so namehints are user provided in the source files? i so confuse 13:17:27 quinthellopia! 13:17:30 Roujon matin! 13:18:19 quintopia: no, they're created by aimake's config file 13:18:23 like everything else in aimake 13:18:32 it's basically a rule engine + a set of rules 13:18:46 hellœrjan. 13:18:48 and the reason it's architected like that is that it makes it much easier to test 13:19:23 if everything's treated the same way, it's much less likely to make it accidentally non-idempotent or accidentally fail to track dependencies correctly or something like that 13:20:08 hoily 13:20:16 so they are created by aimake, but not automatically... 13:20:35 oerjan: about underload's monoidalitude, I'll have to believe you at face value for now. 13:21:12 underload's obviously a monoid 13:21:22 with concatenation being the operation, and the null string the unit 13:22:23 Oh, everything's a monoid to moneyes. 13:22:54 `pastewisdom 13:22:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:23:05 Also, http://bitbucket.org/GregorR/exc . *runs* 13:23:10 actually I think all concatenative languages are monoids by definition 13:23:12 although brainfuck is a monoid in essentially the same way 13:23:22 Gregor: what is everything to soreyes? 13:23:42 ... soroid? 13:23:51 BF is technically concatenative too, isn't it? 13:23:56 yeah 13:23:58 Gregor, aren't those dinosaurs? 13:24:01 just not in an interesting way 13:24:55 brainfuck behaves too erratically on pre-initialized tape 13:25:11 although there isn't anything stopping you from clearing cells first 13:26:31 i learned today that t-rex lived closer in time to the present day than to the time when stegosaurus lived 13:26:32 yep, it's better than Snowflake in that respect 13:26:51 where by definition, given a suitably initialized stack, any program can do anything whatsoever 13:27:12 hmm... I think it's interesting to draw a distinction between reversible languages, and rereversible languages 13:27:24 then do so 13:27:26 in a reversible language, given a program and an eventual state, you can construct the initial state of the program 13:27:40 in a rereversible language, given a program, there is another program in the same language that undoes its effects 13:27:47 which is a stronger requirement 13:28:30 so rereversible languages might form a group. like burro. or rather, my improvement to burro. 13:29:00 ais523_: that's like the difference between bijection and isomorphism 13:29:29 quintopia: yeah, the original burro didn't form a group because it was reversible but not rereversible 13:29:32 quintopia, I think that any rereversible language forms a group possibly without associativity so not a group at all 13:29:48 or possibly between injection and monomorphism 13:30:28 hm wait no 13:30:34 monomorphism is the same 13:31:01 it's the difference between injection/monomorphism and left invertible 13:32:28 Snowflake has possibly the strongest reversibility I've seen in an esolang (within a single cycle): for each command, there is a specific other command that's both a left and right inverse of it 13:33:13 that's just a group. 13:33:20 (from this, it's immediately impossible to conclude that Snowflake has no infinite loops within a single cycle) 13:33:28 oerjan: well it only has finitely many commands 13:33:48 unlike, say, Burro, where the inverse of a single command can IIRC be multiple commands 13:33:58 it can? 13:34:05 * oerjan doesn't remember 13:34:21 hmm, perhaps not 13:34:26 I don't really remember either 13:34:46 ais523_: did you ever read my suggested improvements to make it form a proper group? 13:35:18 quintopia: I don't think so, and can't find them on the wiki article or talk page 13:35:44 i recall discussing making a language with all basic commands _self_-inverse. 13:36:04 yeah, I recall that being discussed too 13:36:14 Snowflake needed to be reasonably easy to program in, though 13:36:21 ais523_: that's because i posted them on the xkcd fora instead 13:36:24 of course this property is not preserved for composite commands 13:36:26 http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14986 13:36:44 or at least, I didn't mind making arbitrary changes to make it harder, but I wanted it to be reasonable to write a working program 13:38:06 hmm... it's interesting how close cpressey's fixed conditional in Burro ended up to FORK/SPOON in Snowflake 13:41:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lather). 13:48:51 yay, I only scored 10 that time 13:48:56 also, onoz is pretty interesting as BF derivatives go 13:58:01 scored 10 at? 13:58:17 Life, presumably. Out of 10. Success. 13:58:56 when you assume, you give an ass to Uma Thurman 14:00:10 quintopia: the BF derivative dodging game 14:00:20 basically you keep clicking on random page on Esolang 14:00:30 and count how many BF derivs youu find before you find a language you created 14:00:32 lower is better 14:02:15 could we, like, y'know, like, delete and remove and obliterate and shred to pieces so small you start doing atomic fission the brainfuck derivatives? 14:02:23 ais523_, does Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck count? 14:02:45 Taneb: no 14:02:46 when you assume, you give an ass to Uma Thurman 14:02:50 So? =P 14:03:43 How about I hate your bf-derivative I really do? 14:04:32 I forget what that language is 14:04:40 the counts are only going to be approximate anyway, though 14:04:49 due to judgement calls or clicking too fast 14:04:53 Aaargh, thought I had scored 3 but it was Fugue rather than Fueue 14:06:34 that sort of thing happens all the time to me 14:07:35 I got confused. some languages had a BFDish name, but the language itself was not quite BFDian enough... 14:08:04 Oh come on 14:08:11 I've ended up at the page for me 14:09:08 beautiful 14:09:11 What game is this? =P 14:09:18 the BF derivative dodging game 14:09:25 [15:00] basically you keep clicking on random page on Esolang [15:00] and count how many BF derivs youu find before you find a language you created 14:09:25 ais523_: i would probably get 100 14:09:34 Ah 14:09:42 AFAICT, if you want to do /really/ well, you have to be either cpressey or zzo38 14:09:51 although I hit Taneb before I hit me, usually 14:09:59 So... Infinite score for me? =P 14:10:02 so Taneb's likely to see the opposite results ;) 14:10:17 Roujo: if you have no non-BF-derivative languages, you have to write one so as to not be stuck clicking forever 14:10:31 Yeah, just hit ais523 14:10:38 I have no language, period =P 14:10:50 So yeah. Oops. =P 14:10:56 I guess I know what I have to do now! 14:10:59 Just hit Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 14:11:03 Final score: 15 14:11:43 maybe we should change the game to be "until you land on your own language or one of cpressey's or Zzo38's" 14:11:53 then we can play a lot faster 14:12:50 Maybe put in bonus points if it's your own language 14:13:08 Well, deduce some points from your total, really 14:13:12 yeah 14:13:13 I'm up to 7 and still haven't hit me >: ( 14:13:17 Since it seems the goal is the get a low score? 14:13:24 although the word you want is deduct 14:13:36 Massive Multiplayer Online Esoteric Brainfuck Derivative Dodge! 14:14:23 quintopia: Nah, I want to use logical axioms to find out what my score is >_> 14:15:01 Roujo: I thought that last sentence was a language idea 14:15:11 until the second time I read it 14:15:20 ^^ 14:16:16 15 and I give up 14:17:47 Gregor: I've scored like 30 before now 14:18:02 Yes, but I'm at work ;) 14:19:20 :) 14:19:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:20:01 Wow, just actually scored 3 14:20:30 how many samples would one need to get a statistically safe average that could be published on the user's page? 14:20:32 this game could be scripted, if the brainfuck derivative category were accurate and up-to-date 14:21:56 you wouldn't really need to sample it, you could just calculate 14:22:15 except that MediaWiki's random page command isn't uniformly weighted 14:22:37 basically it assigns a random float between 0 and 1 to each page, then the random page button generates a random float and looks for the next higher float that belongs to a page 14:22:39 and returns that page 14:22:53 Actually, the calculation is simple enough that you don't even need a program. Number of pages in the BF-derivs category divided by number of languages you've made. 14:23:27 oh. right. but I still like my overengineered solution :D 14:23:30 ais523_, doesn't that wind up as roughly uniform weighted for a sufficiently large number of pages? 14:23:45 Taneb: yeah, but some pages will be more heavily weighted than others 14:23:50 Or rather, bfderivs/(bfderivs+yourlangs) 14:24:14 Nowait... oh well, I'm not sure precisely the math apparently X-D 14:24:45 do we count your own BFDes differently than other people's BFDes? do you count them at all? 14:25:07 (own languages) / (1 + own BFD)? 14:25:13 I think the rule is that if you've made BF-derivs, you don't deserve to play the game. 14:25:27 if you hit your own BF deriv, you have to keep going 14:25:47 Taneb: yes. 14:25:51 What if you invented BF? 14:25:54 Does that count? 14:26:00 Roujo, no 14:26:05 Does P'' count? 14:26:29 BF is not a BF derivative 14:26:51 ... 14:26:57 That makes sense, yeah 14:27:12 ais523_: is there a tool that explores the gaps between page's assigned floats to figure out which page is most heavily weighted? 14:27:14 If I hypothetically uploaded the Ook! derivative I wrote when I was 12, would that count? 14:27:30 quintopia: not as far as I know 14:27:45 Taneb: I still count BF derivative derivatives as BF derivatives 14:27:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:28:10 I think I lost the specs for my Ook! derivative 14:28:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:29:05 good 14:30:08 BF', a BF derivative 14:30:17 BA-DUM TSH 14:30:29 =P 14:30:48 We had a similar conversation in another channel 14:32:00 We were thinking of starting a cover band for a K-Pop group called f(x), just so that we could call ourselves df(x)/dx or f'(x) 14:33:00 Roujo, I haven't had much exposure to K-pop, I find the various groups very difficult to differentiate 14:33:01 Taneb, publish it, so i can write a tumblr entry decrying this crime against the perfect language 14:33:20 Phantom_Hoover, I think it's been completely lost now 14:33:32 REWRITE IT 14:33:48 THIS WAS A THIRD OF MY LIFE AGO 14:34:00 I'VE STARTED AND FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL SINCE I LAST READ IT 14:34:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6 14:34:19 Actually, I can vaguely remember what it was like 14:34:27 wow i found something dumber than a brainfuck derivative 14:36:44 Phantom_Hoover: there's a version in a more usual encoding at http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6/~ 14:37:11 i know 14:37:27 Taned: To be honest, I can't really tell either - except for that one band that I like a lot. =P 14:37:31 and seriously, there are languages there that are worse than even the worst bf deriv 14:37:57 name one that isn't in shameful 14:38:02 ais523_, Phantom_Hoover: Like what? =P 14:38:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Shameful 14:38:51 Phantom_Hoover: I was going to say Snack, but someone added it to Shameful while I wasn't paying attention 14:38:53 not that I disagree 14:39:21 I seem to miss whatever is U+1A85... 14:39:46 "Esme is an esoteric programming language[citation needed] created by User:Dagoth Ur, Mad God as a lol." 14:39:46 Wow 14:39:48 Just... wow. 14:40:21 Shameful (which officialy does not exist) is reserved for only the very worst languages 14:40:32 like Feather? 14:40:39 well except esme, which is the best 14:40:42 also read the talk page for Esme 14:41:26 Oh. I see =P 14:41:33 oh, i didn't notice quite how awful snack is 14:41:51 i like how there's a command in the reference interpreter which isn't in the spec 14:42:04 i also like how i'm p. sure the reference interpreter shouldn't work at all 14:42:48 perhaps it doesn't? 14:42:49 Wow. Okay, so the bar for my first esolang is pretty low, I guess. =P 14:43:07 "You have eaten as a snack right 2 people." 14:43:09 I think poison is the complete worst. 14:43:10 Roujo: to be fair, it requires a sort of perverse genius to create a language quite that bad 14:43:15 [[PARSING ERROR]] 14:44:31 ais523_: It doesn't even do anything! It doesn't even have a POOP function! 14:44:48 Roujo: I am not debating that that language is bad 14:44:53 =P 14:44:58 there is no point in arguing that that language is bad because everyone will agree with you 14:45:12 I know, I was kidding =P 14:45:14 I disagree about automatically agreeing. 14:48:42 i give up on this game 14:52:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has joined. 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has joined. 14:58:10 henooodllo. 14:58:18 `relcome audioPhil 14:58:21 ​audioPhil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:58:43 -!- augur has joined. 15:01:36 wow, what a colorful welcome 15:01:38 thanks 15:02:06 `welcome audioPhil 15:02:08 audioPhil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:02:10 There are also non-ridiculous versions. 15:02:54 `bienvenue audioPhil 15:02:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenue: not found 15:02:58 D: 15:03:10 `run ls bin 15:03:12 ​` \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ @ \ ؟ \ WELCOME \ \ \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ anonlog \ aseen \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ complain \ complaints \ danddreclist \ define \ delquote \ e \ emmental \ emoclew \ emptylist \ erflist \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ freedom \ frink \ fsck \ fu 15:03:35 `run catcat 15:03:37 No output. 15:03:39 ... 15:03:42 Welp 15:06:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:08:19 it seems like half the activity of this channel is creating new, ridiculous sorts of welcome sometimes 15:08:25 `emoclew zzo38 15:08:27 ​(.ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .egaP_niaM/ikiw/gro.sgnalose//:ptth :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :83ozz 15:08:47 `relcome is one of the more popular ones, though 15:08:51 ​is: one: of: the: more: popular: ones,: though: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:08:58 ais523_: Don't forget the part where I cat stuff for no good reason 15:09:04 `run cat cat | cat 15:09:06 Meow~~ 15:13:10 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:14:06 And thus the cuttle died 15:27:43 @tell boily http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2013/09/16/ignobels-2013-who-ate-the-dead-shrew-for-science/ 15:27:44 Consider it noted. 15:32:58 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 15:33:13 -!- Bike has joined. 15:39:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:46:10 -!- conehead has joined. 15:47:27 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:00:58 Bike: I deny the parboiled shrew. 16:07:31 Roujo: Actually, there can be a purpose to | cat. 16:07:35 isatty(1) 16:14:13 there are things which like paging themselves unnecessarily 16:19:24 Gregor: Well yeah. I just don't really do it for a good reason, that's all 16:20:22 looking at you, git 16:20:40 Gracenotes: Hahaha, 'struth. 16:20:42 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:23:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:25:18 I can see use for | cat -e 16:26:00 But "cat -e" is an abomination, is it not? 16:26:21 (Not to mention oh so POSIX-incompliant.) 16:27:26 `run man cat -e 16:27:28 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 16:27:32 Well crap 16:28:40 Oh gawd, cat -e is Satan incarnate. 16:29:04 Gregor: What do you think of cat -n then?-) 16:29:16 *sobs* 16:29:38 Even the solitary option that POSIX specifies (-u) is ridiculous. 16:29:39 cat --checkmail 16:30:21 `run man cat | grep '-e' 16:30:23 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config \ grep: option requires an argument -- 'e' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try `grep --help' for more information. 16:30:28 cat --system echo hi # equivalent to echo hi | cat 16:32:34 henooodllo. <-- good stealth greeting i didn't notice 16:32:44 -!- S1 has joined. 16:33:55 Did anyone ever try to implement QuickSort in Brainfuck? 16:34:08 Cause that is what I am trying to do. 16:35:03 I'l bet you anything that several ones did 16:35:23 I just need to find them. That's why I'm asking 16:35:40 Well I don't NEED to. Would be just fine. 16:35:44 on the other hand, every one here knows brainfuck and everyone here knows quicksort 16:35:53 what can we do you for? 16:36:30 Nothing. I was just asking ^^ But you can look at my program so far if you want. 16:36:35 sure 16:36:38 There's a StackExchange challenge for it, with one accepted answer. 16:36:57 (It's eminently findable with the search terms of "brainfuck quicksort".) 16:37:34 I think the hard part is if you're sorting an array in-place you need to remember the begin and end indexes of every sub-array you're "recursively" sorting 16:38:38 `relcome S1 16:38:38 can i just code it in c and use the c to bf compiler 16:38:41 ​S1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:38:56 Nah that'd be cheatin 16:39:49 I split the array in two, then recursively run the programm on each of the new two arrays. 16:40:01 I think someone had a nice environment wwhere you could name variables and stuff 16:40:17 and then it replaces with the appropriate amount of > and < 16:40:17 I split it by moving the right part a few cells, so that there is some space in between. 16:40:25 NO CHEATING! 16:40:28 http://31.media.tumblr.com/c33227832138905c415ff573eae65a91/tumblr_msv9kcrYxt1sgh0voo1_500.png beware. 16:40:30 https://github.com/pikhq/pebble 16:40:58 if i write the compiler myself can it be not cheating 16:41:50 You mean you want to write a c to bf compiler in bf? Well if you can do that without using one from the internet and without writing the c to bf compiler in c and then compiling it to bf it's ok. 16:41:54 would it be cheating to build a boat to enter a swimming contest? 16:42:20 Koen__: Depends if you're swimming in BF-derivates, I'd guess 16:42:23 of course 16:42:25 Bike: I think it's ok for you to write your own compiler yourself... but you're not allowed to compile it using another compiler 16:42:30 what i if i write a c to bf compiler in c and use it to compile itself into bf 16:42:46 pretty sure that wouldn't work 16:42:49 Come on I think I made myself clear :D NO COMPILERS 16:42:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:42:56 these requirements seem rather arbitrary! 16:43:15 truly, can we not say that i myself am a compiler of a description of an algorithm into brainfuck 16:43:39 if that were true we'd have to kill you 16:43:53 what! 16:44:03 No because you don't translate one thing to another but think about HOW to implement it in bf 16:44:23 For the case: Human compilers allowed -_- 16:44:37 doesn't "implementing program A in language B" mean compiling? 16:44:43 "if you meet a compiler on the road, pkill it" -- lin chi 16:44:46 I dont think so 16:45:34 S1, no, it does 16:45:48 hey is there a simple "move n cells to the right" algorithm in brainfuck? where n is the content of the current cell (and you don't want to destroy it) 16:46:50 somehow i doubt it 16:47:21 by moving the tape you lose all information on the content of n, essentially 16:47:21 can there be blank cells between the cells that are to be moved or am I allowed to create it? 16:48:04 so maybe it would be a good idea to use every other cell for the array, and every other cell to store intermediate stuff to move along the array 16:48:06 nothing on http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck_algorithms 16:48:07 I think I don't get the problem exactly. Please write an example. A state before the program and a state after it. 16:48:08 how terrible. 16:48:33 in brainfuck you can only move information a bit at a time, i guess 16:48:55 and that bit has to correspond to whether or not some cell is zeroed 16:49:31 you could probably write something to turn n{n{0}} into 0{n{1}} [totally appropriate use of verilog syntax 16:49:34 ] 16:49:35 ]]]]]] 16:50:06 you know I'm very uncomfortable with unmatched brackets 16:50:15 « 16:50:54 ... 16:51:12 » 16:51:21 pfiouuuu 16:52:20 s/\[/\]/g 16:52:33 ...that looks so wrongm 16:52:35 -m 16:52:53 I'm not sure if that's what your verilog syntax meant but you could turn (n)(x)(0) into (0)(x)(n-1) if every other cell is a tmp cell 16:53:23 if you have a bunch of tmp cells it's easy 16:53:27 and thus you've moved two cells right and the content of the current cell has been decreased; repeat until it's 0 and you're there 16:53:46 Phantom_Hoover: when I write the whole brainfuck program, I've got AN INFINITY of tmp cells 16:54:01 it's so easy i'm confused why you asked 16:55:03 but that's horribly slow 16:55:24 you need n^2 operations to move n cells 16:55:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:55:52 you know what screw brainfuck, I'm gonna write a sorting algorithm in thue 16:56:04 True? 16:56:26 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue 16:57:05 wow... 16:58:35 Koen__: i'm fascinated about subleq right now 16:59:48 subtract and lsomething if equal 17:00:03 subtract and branch if less than or equal to? 17:00:14 zero, yes 17:00:35 basically, everything is a pointer 17:01:08 it's one instruction set computing 17:05:02 -!- Bike has joined. 17:05:16 huh? my bot is dead??? 17:05:24 Yup 17:05:27 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:05:27 RIP Cuttlefish 17:05:31 Or not 17:05:35 ~yi 17:05:35 Your divination: "Small Accumulating" to "Attending" 17:05:36 rip. 17:06:07 * boily pats his bot “Good bot. Yes you are.” 17:08:36 ~duck cheese 17:08:36 cheese definition: a food consisting of the coagulated, compressed, and usually ripened curd of milk separated from the whey. 17:09:00 Now that doesn't sound very appetizing >_> 17:09:02 -!- augur has joined. 17:09:28 ~duck tendon 17:09:28 tendon definition: a tough cord or band of dense white fibrous connective tissue that unites a muscle with some other part (as a bone) and transmits the force which the muscle exerts. 17:09:49 when tendon sounds yummier than cheese, there's a problem. 17:10:19 (of course, tendon in phở is good, but that's besides the point.) 17:11:46 I'm kinda disappointed 17:11:59 I've been looking for some thue-like that would accept variables 17:12:16 that is, some kind of pattern-matching 17:12:52 variables how? 17:12:56 Why do I feel like we've had this conversation before 17:13:43 well variables may not be the best name 17:13:49 regular expressions maybe 17:13:59 Roujo: because Koen__ likes variables. 17:14:08 we've had, Roujo 17:14:19 so I've looked up thutu and thubi 17:14:24 aaaaaaaaand well 17:14:25 With the tendon part as well 17:14:37 the closest thing to what I'm looking for is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Definer 17:15:11 `pastlogs tendon 17:15:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 17:15:18 `pastlog tendon 17:15:50 No output. 17:16:04 Roujo: no, we never talked about tendons beforehand. 17:16:19 Koen__: Definer has a very l-system feel. 17:16:39 `pastlog ~duck 17:16:54 2013-08-12.txt:18:43:00: ~duck i-esse-erre j'ai dit! 17:17:05 Pretty sure that didn't work 17:18:18 ~duck ISR 17:18:18 isr definition: Israel; Israeli. 17:18:46 ~duck asl 17:18:46 ASL+ - An algebraic specification language by David Aspinall of the University of Edinburgh. 17:21:05 boily: ok maybe 17:21:20 on the other hand, I think all string-rewriting systems kinda feel alike 17:23:43 boily: in fact l-system looks a lot more like Thue than Definer, in my opinion 17:25:30 hmm... 17:25:42 * boily strokes his sandpapery beard stubble... 17:29:00 indeed. 17:31:23 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:32:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:35:03 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:35:13 boily: Quite, quite 17:40:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:40:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:40:44 Hi 17:40:56 Anothello ^^ 17:41:41 ais523: would you say that, the ultimate purpose of a Snowflake program is to essentially produce an interpreter that does all of the work? 17:41:59 AnotherTest: yes 17:42:21 Well, I think it's an interesting language 17:42:28 although I don't fully understand the threads 17:42:36 it took me a while to understand them too 17:43:01 basically the idea is that fork splits every thread, spoon joins the split bunches, a thread can split into 0 threads but those 0 threads can still be split and joined 17:43:27 do threads run in parallel as well or is that not a requirement? 17:43:27 but some entity (the shabby/decrepit threads) has to be added to track when that happens 17:43:39 it's unobservable whether they run in parallel or in order 17:43:44 but the spec assumes they run in parallel 17:43:50 *in sequence 17:44:40 well, what I specifically do not understand in the different types of threads (shabby, tarnished, shiny and deprecated) 17:44:49 *decrepit, sorry 17:46:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:46:29 so, as far as I understand, you start with a single thread (which appearantly needs to have a parent as well, so you actually start with an infinite amount of threads?) 17:46:48 then that thread can be split by a fork command 17:46:56 As I recall, it's threads all the way up =P 17:47:30 * boily lobs a mine-turtle over at Roujo 17:47:38 I just don't really see what's up with all the different types of threads 17:48:40 OK, say I have a thread and I split it into two threads 17:48:51 then I split one of those threads into 3, and the other into 0 17:48:55 then I split each of those 3 into 2 17:49:06 the group of 0 threads has to also split into 0, again 17:49:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:14 then I can undo those splits and should end up with the original organization 17:49:22 it's quite hard to track anything about a group of 0 threads 17:49:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:49:31 so I use a group of 1, with a different adjective, instead 17:50:13 Nice 17:50:37 how does splitting into 0 threads work? 17:50:44 halt? 17:51:08 is that like not actually splitting it 17:51:20 (although adding a new 0 thread) 17:51:33 AnotherTest: basically you just add a shabby thread 17:51:36 which represents the group of 0 17:51:52 and it's pretty useful, you can use it to do conditionals 17:51:52 "Is adding 0 to a number the same as not doing anything at all?" ~ Mao 17:51:59 i must say i think of shabbiness as a property of ropes, not threads 17:52:02 Bike: can't halt in a rereversible language 17:52:25 is that different from reversibility 17:52:46 Bike: it's different in that in a reversible language, the steps to reverse it don't have to exist within the language itself 17:54:15 ais523: so what's the type of a non-zero thread? Do those have a type at all. Or is it not the sero thread that this given this type? 17:54:36 basically, running threads are shiny 17:55:10 "There is no facility for entering comments, due for the tendency for documentation to get out of date quickly" i must say you do some crazy stuff 17:55:11 threads that running threads split from (and that running threads will eventually join into) are tarnished 17:55:11 groups of 0 that would be currently running if they had any threads are shabby 17:55:11 and groups of 0 that more groups of 0 have been split from are decrepit 17:57:21 i see this is a snowflake discussion 17:57:26 i wish snowflake made sense 17:57:34 so, you start with a tarnished thread? 17:57:53 AnotherTest: you start with a shiny thread 17:57:57 with infinitely many tarnished parents 17:58:03 ah, I see 17:58:25 Ok, I get that so far. I still don't get the decrepit and shappy threads though :( 17:58:51 basically say I try to run FORK, with an empty list at TOS 17:58:51 Split a shiny thread to 0 children -> 1 Shabby thread 17:58:59 * quintopia faxes boily a treasure chest 17:59:03 yeah, it splits into 0 children, which has to be tracked somehow 17:59:06 Split a tarnished thread to 0 children -> 1 Decrept thread 17:59:10 Decrepit* 17:59:16 so we create a shabby thread that basically just sits there and stops its parent running 17:59:22 ah, I see 17:59:26 until you SPOON 17:59:31 what happens when you split a decrept thread though 17:59:36 `addquote until you SPOON 17:59:40 quintopia: AAAAAAAAAAURGH! need to mail the biscuits! 17:59:40 1106) until you SPOON 17:59:50 AnotherTest: they don't split 17:59:52 because they aren't running 17:59:57 only the shiny and shabby threads split 18:00:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:00:29 it's okay, i haven't gone to gorham yet. i'm probably a week away still 18:01:04 Ah, I think I understand now 18:01:14 good. 18:01:21 interseting, but crazy 18:01:28 *interesting 18:01:30 besides, I think that's the closest I can get to mailing something to a *ham. 18:02:02 boily: What if you mailed a ham to somewhere strange? 18:02:53 uhm. considering my mail karma, I don't think it's a good idea. 18:02:59 What if elliott mailed SIX hams to somewhere stranger. 18:03:13 Gregor: That's overkill and you know it D: 18:03:15 * boily still remembers that time where we tried to mail yak cheese from China... 18:03:35 "Express? Nahh, it's already rotten milk, how bad can it get?" 18:03:53 Gregor: i c wut you did thar 18:04:17 Glad somebody did. 18:04:34 * boily curses Gregor 18:04:37 ... 18:04:43 I missed it >_> 18:04:51 Oh 18:04:53 OH 18:05:09 boily: No soap, radio! 18:05:23 * Roujo laughs, everybody laughs, nobody knows why 18:05:42 not cool, not funny, not a good joke 18:05:43 Roujo: the problem is that the punchline is starting to become legitimately funny in random contexts through association 18:05:51 which completely destroys its original purpose 18:06:03 which by itself is becoming an antiantijoke. 18:06:09 So... Soap, no radio? 18:07:12 (Soap -> Void) -> Radio 18:08:01 Void is Haskell's name for the uninhabited type, right? 18:08:08 ~duck void 18:08:08 void definition: not occupied. 18:08:15 ais523: the duck agrees. 18:08:40 `unicode WHITE SQUARE 18:08:42 ​□ 18:08:55 `unicode SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 18:08:57 ​⛄ 18:09:05 Crap, the square isn't the same! 18:09:34 `unicode BLACK SQUARE 18:09:36 ​■ 18:09:36 `unicode WHITE MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE 18:09:38 ​◽ 18:09:42 hey, that looks white 18:09:42 I think that's it 18:09:45 not black 18:09:50 ah what 18:09:52 heh? `unicode is a new command? 18:09:57 `unicode yes 18:09:59 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'yes'" 18:10:00 `cat bin/unicode 18:10:02 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ import unicodedata \ \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") 18:10:10 `unicode a 18:10:11 OK, yet another reason Python's whitespace thing sucks 18:10:11 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'a'" 18:10:16 oooooooooh. 18:10:28 ùnicode A 18:10:30 ... 18:10:32 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A 18:10:34 a 18:10:39 I saw a post on a forum a while back which was meant to be Python but the whitespace was destroyed by the forum software… 18:10:48 Roujo: do you use dead keys on your keyboard? 18:10:48 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER X 18:10:50 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK SMALL LETTER X'" 18:10:54 you probably have to type ` space unicode 18:11:04 `unicode GREEK ZETA 18:11:06 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK ZETA'" 18:11:07 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER CHI 18:11:08 ​χ 18:11:20 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER ZETA 18:11:22 ​ζ 18:11:37 ais523: Yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do 18:11:49 I just forget it often, since I don't need to do it to `run stuff 18:12:01 hmm 18:12:06 I should map all of my keys + Alt Gr to greek equivalents 18:12:10 it seems there's an ŕ, but you need to use combining characters to backquote an r 18:12:14 But then again, that's by design, probably =P 18:12:17 err, grave an r 18:12:23 What's a dead key? =P 18:12:44 Roujo: key with an accent that you press in order to accent the next letter you type 18:12:46 Roujo: si t'es sur le layout canadien français, c'est les touches qui font un accent, puis que t'appuies sur une autre touche après. 18:14:18 `unicode HEBREW SMALL LETTER ALEPH 18:14:20 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW SMALL LETTER ALEPH'" 18:14:20 Cool, cool 18:14:29 ais523, boily: Yeah, I have dead keys then 18:14:38 They just don't work on consonants =P 18:14:44 ok, maybe aleph is not a small letter 18:14:54 àèìòù, but `b`c`d 18:14:58 `unicode HEBREW ALEPH 18:15:00 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW ALEPH'" 18:15:04 `unicode HEBREW LETTER ALEPH 18:15:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW LETTER ALEPH'" 18:15:09 I give up 18:15:25 why can't hackego like grep around for the closest thing that matches... 18:15:35 `unicode CANADIAN SYLLABICS OY 18:15:36 ​ᢰ 18:16:03 `unicode UNMARRIED PARTNERSHIP SYMBOL 18:16:05 ​⚯ 18:16:06 quintopia: As you know full well, HackEgo can do only what you tell it to. 18:16:13 exact;y 18:16:19 `unicode COMBINING ENCLOSING UPWARD POINTING TRIANGLE 18:16:20 ​⃤ 18:16:23 and sometimes it can't even do that 18:16:27 `run df -h . 18:16:29 df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on \ - 23G 22G 28M 100% /hackenv 18:16:42 Yikes >_> 18:16:50 what's taking up all that space anyway? 18:16:55 Cats, probabl y 18:16:56 `run du --si / 18:16:58 0/sys/fs/ext4/features \ 0/sys/fs/ext4 \ 0/sys/fs/cgroup \ 0/sys/fs \ 0/sys/bus/cpu/devices \ 0/sys/bus/cpu/drivers \ 0/sys/bus/cpu \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource/devices \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource/drivers \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource \ 0/sys/bus/platform/devices \ 0/sys/bus/platform/drivers/uml-blkdev \ 0/sys/bus/platform/drivers/alarmtimer \ 0/sys 18:17:03 that was useful 18:17:06 `run du --si / | sort -n 18:17:15 it's probably going to time out :( 18:17:30 `unicode MONGOLIAN FREE VARIATION SELECTOR THREE 18:17:33 ​᠍ 18:17:37 du: cannot read directory `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read dir 18:17:46 `run du / 2>/dev/null | sort -n 18:18:08 ais523: You won't be able to tell what's taking up the space because you can only see a tiny portion of a chroot. 18:18:10 (normally you have to worry about reading /proc or the like, but the HackEgo sandbox means that everything is fine) 18:18:17 No output. 18:18:22 Gregor: oh, I assumed it meant the /chroot/ was full 18:18:37 I assumed the sandbox wouldn't be able to see outside its own filesystem even with df 18:18:43 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 18:18:45 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM '" 18:18:48 Awwww 18:19:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:19:12 ais523: Naw, df is just mounted fs. The chroot has no quota anyway. 18:19:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:19:31 well then the chroot might /actually/ be full 18:19:35 and probably should be quota'd 18:19:56 Naw, there's no point in quotaing the chroot. Quotaing HackEgo, yes. 18:22:36 `run chroot oerjan/ 18:22:39 bash: /hackenv/bin/chroot: Permission denied 18:22:41 `quota 18:22:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quota: not found 18:22:55 what's the sandbox built on these days? 18:23:05 `run chroot oerjan/ 18:23:07 Meow~~ 18:23:47 is there not a command or whatever for telling you the free space left in a filesystem 18:23:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:23:59 quintopia: umlbox, like it has been for quite a long time. 18:24:09 Phantom_Hoover: Uh, yeah, df -h, like I ran two minutes ago. 18:24:11 ah that's what it's called 18:25:50 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:26:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:29:49 `unicode HEBREW LETTER ALEF 18:30:05 ​א 18:30:07 hth 18:30:48 `unicode ALEF SYMBOL 18:30:50 ah, alef, not aleph 18:30:56 ​ℵ 18:31:14 `unicode ALF 18:31:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ALF'" 18:31:21 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 18:31:57 `unicode '; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS;-- 18:32:02 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name ''; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS;--'" 18:32:21 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 18:32:23 ​ﯹ 18:32:34 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:56 `unicode SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 18:32:57 ​⛄ 18:33:12 `unicode SUNSET OVER BUILDINGS 18:33:14 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'SUNSET OVER BUILDINGS'" 18:33:14 `unicode RANDOM CAPSLOCKED WORDS 18:33:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'RANDOM CAPSLOCKED WORDS'" 18:33:18 `unicode TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE 18:33:19 `unicode TIBETAN MARK GTER YIG MGO -UM GTER TSHEG MA 18:33:19 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE'" 18:33:20 ​༃ 18:33:29 `unicode UMBRELLA 18:33:30 ​☂ 18:33:34 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAINDROPS 18:33:35 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UMBRELLA WITH RAINDROPS'" 18:33:36 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f307/index.htm um excuse me. 18:33:38 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAIN 18:33:40 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UMBRELLA WITH RAIN'" 18:33:40 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAIN DROPS 18:33:42 ​☔ 18:33:43 Hey, now! TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE is U+1F375. 18:33:45 There we go 18:34:03 `unicode FIZZIE WITHOUT HANDLE 18:34:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'FIZZIE WITHOUT HANDLE'" 18:34:10 `unicode GEAR WITHOUT HUB 18:34:11 ​⛭ 18:34:16 `unicode FACE WITHOUT MOUTH 18:34:17 🍵 18:34:18 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'FACE WITHOUT MOUTH'" 18:34:23 That, too, should exist. 18:34:31 nooodl: uhm. why would anyone need that. 18:34:31 (Time to upgrade the Unicode database?) 18:35:13 any appropriate ASCII symbol for "xor" that's not ^? 18:35:49 "(+)" if you can go with multiple characters? 18:36:09 AnotherTest: ⊗ U+2297. 18:36:12 yes, I can gowith multiple characters 18:36:21 boily: not unicode 18:36:32 oh. right. 18:36:38 I don't really know about (+), it's kind of silly. 18:36:48 maybe "xor" is just fine 18:37:41 `unicode XOR 18:37:43 ​⊻ 18:37:51 Wait, that's not ASCII 18:37:52 NEVERMIND 18:38:02 (But still, apparently that's a thing) 18:39:45 Maybe ↑, that's ASCII(-1963). (Except it's really for NAND.) 18:40:07 NAND = XOR for some values, doesn't it? 18:40:10 Close enough for me 18:40:27 For most values, even. 18:40:37 AnotherTest: != 18:40:49 There's always >< too. 18:40:56 Wooo, nice 18:41:01 >|< 18:41:09 =>|<= 18:42:30 are there any 4+ punctuation symbol operators defined in the currently available Haskell libraries, or have the multiple developers stuck to at most three-character-wide ops? 18:43:19 something ridiculensous, like ~+^.? 18:43:29 lens has a few 18:43:34 like ^@!? 18:43:47 and <<.~ 18:43:53 >_> 18:44:07 <<%@= 18:44:09 Haskell is the new perl. 18:44:14 haskell is the gnu perl 18:44:16 this isn't all of them, mind you. just a few 18:44:18 there's a whole bunch 18:44:37 Uikku syö muikun. 18:45:15 oui qu'où sue eux mou y coup ne? 18:45:46 boily: je ne même pas 18:46:12 Roujo: google translate is no help here. «Grebe manger corégone.» 18:46:46 Corégone is best gone 18:47:10 boily: That seems to have been mostly correct. 18:47:41 fizzie: the English version has “whitefish” replacing the «corégone», and the verb is correctly conjugated. 18:48:08 ~duck grebe 18:48:08 A grebe is a member of the Podicipediformes order, a widely distributed order of freshwater diving birds, some of which visit the sea when migrating and in winter. 18:48:13 Well, French-to-English "corégone" says "whitefish", too. 18:48:31 fizzie: I have a feeling it's a Traditional Old Finnish Proverb in Harmony with Nature or Something Like That. 18:48:39 No, it's just nonsense. 18:49:00 * boily slaps a humid salmon on fizzie 18:49:41 But fi:uikku -> grebe, fi:muikku -> vendace (which, I believe, is a kind of whitefish). 18:49:53 And of course they have that similarity. 18:50:31 And those birds do eat fish. I'm not a 100% on whether they eat that particular kind. 18:51:13 incidentally, whitefishes are a kind of salmonidæs. 18:51:36 lake trout: no lake, no trout 18:51:56 o>O 18:52:07 * trout slaps kmc with a large salmon 18:52:19 You might want to get that nose checked, trout 18:53:03 > let (<+?.*<$>?@%?.*<$>) = const in 3 <+?.*<$>?@%?.*<$> 4 18:53:04 3 18:53:33 the fuck am i reading 18:55:05 the fungot am I reading 18:55:06 kmc: shouldn't ghc substitute enough things at compile time it gives " fnord" in there, either. 18:56:42 myname: you didn't see that. your brain is playing tricks on your eyes. fnord. hth. 18:56:50 boily: Oh, incidentally, for ridiculous operators... XMonad.Layout.LayoutCombinators introduces *||*, **||*, ***||*, ****||*, ***||**, ****||***, ***||****, *||****, **||***, *||*** and *||**, plus all those with either //, | or / in place of the ||. 18:57:00 oh, how i missed that hth here all the time 18:57:07 fizzie: what. 18:57:22 boily: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/xmonad-contrib/0.11/doc/html/XMonad-Layout-LayoutCombinators.html 18:57:53 ascii operator art. well, I'll be damned. 18:57:53 The number of stars gives the ratio in which screen space is divided. 18:58:08 that is so wrong on so many levels. 18:58:31 (And || vs // is vertical/horizontal, and two-vs-one separator is draggable-or-not.) 18:58:42 (****||***) = combineTwo (dragPane Vertical 0.1 (4/7)) 18:58:57 completely, utterly disgusting and horrendous. 18:59:11 but what if i want 5/13? 18:59:36 myname: Then you're outta luck, I'm afraid. 18:59:52 http://thecodelesscode.com/case/109 19:00:01 maybe i should introduce *****||******** 19:01:07 boily: Also the <&&> and <||> in XMonad.ManageHook (part of the core XMonad) do (just barely) fill your "4+ punctuation" requirement. 19:01:37 ((<&&>) = liftM2 (&&), and the same for ||.) 19:01:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:01:59 maybe I should put the threshold at 4.5 characters, as <&&> and <||> seem reasonable. 19:02:21 fizzie: ah, I correctly guessed their purpose. the applicative/monadic variant of && and ||. 19:03:07 boily: XMonad.Hooks.ManageHelpers comes with <==?, >, and -?>> too. (I think I've used that last one, which is why I remembered to go look for it.) 19:03:28 8==> 19:04:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:04:20 we have left fat arrow, left weird existential fat arrow, right lean prickly arrow, right questioning prickly arrow, and then we have myname's dangling arrow. 19:05:16 don't get me wrong, i really like haskell 19:05:23 but... 19:06:44 ~fortune 19:06:44 Conservative, n: 19:06:44 A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished 19:06:44 from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others. 19:06:44 -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" 19:07:17 -!- audioPhil has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 19:07:44 -!- audioPhil has joined. 19:07:49 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 19:07:49 -!- audioPhil has joined. 19:12:29 hm. it's been a long time since I've asked the The Question to anybody. I feel... weird. 19:14:30 Ask me! 19:14:32 ASK ME! 19:17:18 oh well... Roujo, what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 19:17:34 null 19:17:36 Wait 19:17:38 Wait wait 19:17:40 That wasn't it 19:17:46 My script just didn't work TT_TT 19:18:01 oh. your 何マクロ. 19:18:20 I'd /nani you, but I've heard that *that* script somehow PMs everyone in the channel 19:18:23 So meh =P 19:19:01 if your script has that very interesting side-effect, maybe you could have a /hth >:) 19:20:01 [kornbluth.freenode.net][421] Roujo hth :Unknown command 19:20:03 Roujo: btw, could I get a real body weigh for your entry? I only have "403", without any unit. 19:20:35 403: Forbidden? =P 19:21:23 * boily prods Roujo with an automated squirrel feeder 19:21:35 180 lbs, then =P 19:21:37 -!- conehead has joined. 19:21:42 More or less - it's been a while 19:21:56 merci! 19:22:04 Pas de probl 19:22:06 ème =) 19:27:16 I used a tanebvention with actual results. 19:27:19 `thanks Taneb 19:27:21 Thanks, Taneb. Thaneb. 19:27:45 Any time, boily 19:28:03 Any toily. 19:31:16 `thanks 19:31:17 Thanks, . T. 19:31:21 -!- Bike has joined. 19:31:34 :O 19:32:05 `thanks 19:32:07 Thanks, . T. 19:32:50 Bikello. 19:33:24 `bike hello 19:33:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bike: not found 19:33:31 ok 19:33:58 We really should make it so that `run executes a random program if the correct one isn't found 19:35:23 or: no 19:35:38 that way lies php 19:36:11 `? php 19:36:13 PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted] 19:36:27 elliott: what really 19:36:35 elliott: do you certify randomizing unknown HackEgo commands will lead to PHP? 19:36:43 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:37:16 Bike: I started programming with PHP. 19:37:29 hm 19:37:35 when I was 8 19:37:36 i wonder if that's worse than starting with qbasic 19:37:37 elliott: have you recovered? 19:37:38 i'm thining yes 19:37:52 qbasic is a pretty good way to start, I think 19:37:53 I started with GW-BASIC. 19:38:15 it was nice how my normal windows system already had qbasic so i didn't have to deal with installing anything. 19:38:24 I started with BBC Basic, unless you count pressing random keys in front of a Pascal interpreter when I was a baby 19:38:37 compiler+IDE, not interp 19:38:45 does windows have any built in ides nowadays? 19:38:50 somebody, think of the children. 19:38:54 I started with Visual Basic 2005 19:39:23 Bike: does powershell count? 19:39:35 eh... i guess. 19:39:40 ais523, I sort of remember pressing random keys on my dad's computer when I was 3 or 4 19:39:46 Don't know what they would have done 19:39:55 most likely, not a lot 19:40:05 I started with BASIC on a TRS-80 ^^ 19:40:17 I was good at filling screens full of text manually 19:40:24 if you want to talk about random keys i was trying to make a Frogger sequel in actionwhatever when i was like eight :p 19:40:38 Copying pages of code from books I got at the library 19:40:40 have you ever seen animation of a plane crashing made by a child in ms paint 19:40:42 good stuff imo 19:40:43 Somehow, that was fun ^^ 19:43:17 Roujo: I still have mine, somewhere at my parents'. 19:44:41 =) 19:45:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:47:03 oerjan: tell us about your childhood BASIC experiences. 19:47:41 oerjan: Please do 19:49:14 well, like, my dad is a (now retired) telecom engineer, and way back he went on this BASIC course, i think. 19:49:47 so he brought back a BASIC textbook (in swedish) 19:50:04 which means that i actually learned basic before i ever used a computer. 19:50:56 i vaguely recall i even wrote a complex number calculator of sorts. iirc still without a computer. 19:50:57 Wow 19:50:57 Nice 19:51:09 i'm a bit unclear about that part. 19:53:07 at one point my dad brought home a printer with a modem, with which we connected to a computer server of the telecom service. this was my first hands on computer experience, i think. also BASIC. 19:53:29 or well, typewriter with a modem. 19:54:11 -!- itsy has joined. 19:54:26 and then i recall seeing an apple (2?) while on holiday visiting some friends of a friend of my mother. i think i made it display a norwegian flag. with BASIC. 19:54:38 *+computer 19:56:02 a couple years later my dad bought an oric-1 computer, which i still should have in the storage in the basement of this building. also BASIC, which i played with for many years. 19:56:50 terrible interference with the television you connected it to, btw 19:57:44 you burned a norwegian flag onto some CRTs? 19:58:26 and cassette storage, which i basically never bothered with - i kept typing programs in fresh everytime. including a disassembler. i recall there was an assembly instruction reference in the manual, which was missing pages. 19:59:26 boily: um... 19:59:46 (6502 assembly, fwiw) 20:00:13 oerjan: I was given a tutorial on writing asm for BBC microcomputers 20:00:19 like, a big manual thing 20:00:19 but not a reference manual 20:00:19 it was basically just full of examples 20:00:20 and finshed with a 16-bit divide 20:00:24 yeah, BBC micro was 6502 too 20:01:46 (there were two cassettes with programs included, of which my cousin managed to destroy one with a magnet. the other was an adventure game named Zodiac, the cassette had a slow loading side and a fast loading side, the latter never worked. 20:01:50 ) 20:02:17 *a text adventure 20:03:32 I remember copying a blackjack game from a manual. I never had to see the colour version of it, since the only TV at my disposition at the time that worked with the TRS was an old black&white ~12" cube. 20:03:41 i assume it might have worked with a better cassette player. 20:06:27 i wrote mandelbrot in it, i recall. 20:08:02 after a while he bought an ibm pc. if it had basic i never found it. got turbo pascal and masm, though. 20:08:05 btw, the mandelbrot set looks great with floating point rounding errors 20:08:16 because the rounding errors look like little distorted mandelbrot sets of their own 20:08:34 *compatible, possibly 20:08:41 ais523: huh 20:09:24 ais523: well the real set also has little distorted mandelbrot sets in it. i even recall some seminary in complex analysis at the university explaining why. 20:09:45 yeah but they're not entirely disconnected from it 20:09:49 like the rounding errors are 20:09:53 right 20:10:19 ~duck little distorted madelbrot 20:10:19 --- No relevant information 20:10:26 ~duck little distorted mandelbrot 20:10:26 --- No relevant information 20:11:15 boily: i am not sure that is the technical term 20:12:35 ~duck technically correct little distorted mandelbrots 20:12:35 --- No relevant information 20:13:00 oerjan: wikipédia mentions a "distorted" in the article, but no explanation why. 20:13:11 ~duck the best kind of correct little distorted mandelbrots 20:13:12 --- No relevant information 20:14:41 wait, _google_ also has turned into https... 20:15:31 did google change or did IE itself change... 20:16:58 google has defaulted to https for a while now, I think 20:17:13 perhaps everyone got so fed up with the NSA stuff they decided to turn all the websites as redirecting http to https 20:17:32 http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/making-search-more-secure.html 20:17:35 elliott: i haven't noticed before. 20:18:04 the NSA stuff claims to be able to break SSL under at least some circumstances, I think? 20:18:07 elliott: that's if you're signed in. i don't have an account. 20:18:31 break implementations of SSL, anyways 20:18:57 elliott: i just found it a bit weird that google and wikipedia changed at nearly the same time, afaict 20:19:11 (and only noticed because zzo38 commented on the latter) 20:19:25 Wikipedia did it specifically because of the NSA, iirc 20:19:31 the platonic ideal of ssl, that's still safe!! 20:19:33 heh 20:19:45 finally, shachaf is placated. 20:20:41 Bike: eh? 20:20:51 what's the "eh" at 20:21:13 -!- iconmaster has joined. 20:21:49 Bike: why is shachaf placated? 20:21:51 Bike: he's just being canadian 20:21:52 `relcome iconmaster 20:21:55 ​iconmaster: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:22:09 boily: because whenever an http wikipedia link is posted he asks for https 20:22:11 oerjan: also this. I have a canadian quota to fulfill. 20:22:16 Bike: oooooh. 20:23:49 hmm… the stereotypes of Canadians are quite similar to the stereotypes of Brits 20:24:26 oh, shit, i just noticed "eh" as canadian. 20:25:26 hmm… this reminds me of something bizarre I saw at a train station recently 20:25:30 ais523: Canadians are a mix of Brits, Irishmen and Scotsmen, with Ukrainians and probably just about any other nationality. 20:25:44 that I'd have photographed and submitted to TDWTF if I thought of it at the time and owned a camera/cameraphone 20:25:52 boily: so are Brits ;) 20:26:17 (and then we have ass-backwards members of the Provincial Government that put forth a stupid «Charte des Valeurs Québécoises».) 20:26:49 basically, it was showing expected arrival times for trains 20:27:08 including both 13:50 and 02:40 20:27:23 some of those trains were like 12 hours 15 minutes late, predicted 20:27:36 I can only assume there was some stupid mishap converting between 12h and 24h clocks 20:27:39 ais523: oh! mentioning Brits and locations and stuff, and then checking the File to see where you are from, it seems you still aren't in there. 20:27:50 ais523: so... what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 20:27:58 I don't know my body weight 20:28:06 ais523, did you just mix 24 hour and 12 hour notations 20:28:06 you can figure out the coordinates from my email address 20:28:12 Taneb: no, the train station did 20:28:14 I think 20:28:26 Oh that's much less aaaah 20:28:37 I could interpret the 02:40 as 12 hour, but not with the times > 12:59 showing on the same board 20:28:45 ais523: [ais523] (~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523): (this is obviously not my real name) 20:28:57 hmm, theory: the times were 12:50 and 01:40 in the 12 hour clock, UTC 20:29:04 then it added 1 hour for daylight savings 20:29:10 boily: psst he's in birmingham, unless he's moved 20:29:29 which is stupid, but not as stupid as most of the other possible explanations 20:29:52 it's come up often enough i don't consider it secret. 20:29:56 -!- S1 has joined. 20:30:53 oerjan: I'll put that as a temporary answer. I'm using advanced devious social techniques to extract his email from the Intarwebs. 20:31:04 shocking 20:31:31 techniques aka sending him an email through the Wiki. 20:31:41 devious 20:31:57 you know that only works if he responds, right? 20:32:25 I know. I'm waiting for a kind response. it should come soon, no? 20:32:36 boily: alternate method, start playing agora 20:32:36 boily just has to craft an email ais can't resist responding to 20:32:41 boily: re your email: hi! 20:32:44 *-iv- 20:32:48 wow ais is good at this 20:32:56 you'll have to be more cleverer 20:33:07 darn. foiled again! 20:33:46 `quote birmingham 20:33:48 No output. 20:33:50 "Dear AIS, I am a general from the deposed Quebec Republic. I need to transfer a few million quedollars out of the country and would like to transfer to you if possible to avoid suspicion. You will of course be paid greatly for this service..." 20:34:05 `run grep -i birmingham wisdom/* 20:34:09 No output. 20:34:33 * boily falls to the ground, laughing 20:34:35 our files are mysteriously missing all birmingham information. this can be no coincidence. 20:34:46 yeah, that surprised me too 20:34:59 -!- audioPhil has joined. 20:35:04 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 20:35:05 -!- audioPhil has joined. 20:35:45 * boily puts on some Agora (http://youtu.be/1l6LE2yCdQ0), wears a +3 nightgown of ais523-seduction, and whispers “Give me your coördinates...” 20:36:28 boily: i think you are misunderstanding. i mean that if you played agora, you'd get to see some actual emails from him. 20:36:41 or if you just read the archives 20:36:56 well some forms of the archives hide the email address 20:38:23 entirely, or just obfuscate it? 20:38:30 i don't remember 20:38:31 they're more likely to hide the ais523 bit than the domain 20:38:50 `pastelogs .ac.uk 20:38:55 shachaf: in this thread I complain about #haskell in #rust and others respond by saying #rust can't have these problems because everyone is so nice! 20:38:59 a little grepping and whoising, I have Edgbaston. 20:39:45 i wonder if you could hire a sociologist to determine a good way to make people in a dedicated group like #rust not be shits 20:39:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29526 20:39:52 important research project possibilities imo 20:40:12 well, that didn't work. 20:40:35 well, except for all the "ais.*bham" in there i guess. 20:40:44 well, well, well, well 20:40:59 Edgbaston is where the University of Birgmingham is. 20:41:03 well people aren't being shits now 20:41:13 in fact I don't think the problems of #haskell have manifested yet 20:41:21 right 20:41:23 ok that whois mention gave me an idea, which unfortunately doesn't work. ais523, the address you gave on the nethack4.org whois gives me grave doubts of your lawful goodness. 20:41:26 but I brought them up as part of a conversation there, and now I kind of feel like I need to explain my view 20:41:36 but i mean "we're nice" is a classically bad solution to those inevitabilities 20:41:37 that you can't solve all community problems by being nice 20:41:38 yeah 20:41:43 but I also have an axe to grind about #haskell so whatever 20:42:21 i suppose it does say it's obfuscated. 20:42:25 but #haskell can't be all bad. I mean, the /topic was defined by shachaf! 20:43:10 it's tough because I think niceness is really lacking in tech communities and should be encouraged (see: linus torvalds is a dick) 20:43:14 but it's not a panacea 20:43:51 kmc: it reminds me of a friend I had who used to hang around the gitp forums, she was explaining how like, the rules basically mandated niceness, so what trolls/jerks would do is try to get other people caught by the rules 20:43:56 while sticking to the letter 20:43:58 heh 20:44:00 wow 20:44:00 helliora. 20:44:02 (gitp?) 20:44:10 Hi! Are the codu.org logs broken? 20:44:13 Fiora: (guess exactly what happened on tvtropes) 20:44:31 (giant in the playground, apparently) 20:44:34 I don't think #rust could avoid the "information only available on IRC" problem, anyway, because Rust is still changing so fast that there is literally no time to write everything down 20:44:36 Fiora: actually there was an epic troll on the gitp forums today 20:44:36 itsy: try the [text] link instead, i don't know what's up 20:44:47 ~duck gitp 20:44:47 The Order of the Stick From Left to Right: Belkar, Vaarsuvius, Elan, Haley, Durkon, and Roy. 20:45:10 basically exploiting the tl;dr phenomenon to make a lot of people look stupid 20:45:36 i actually raised a huge stink there once back when i cared 'cos a guy got banned for insulting someone who'd said something racist in a nice way for the thousandath time 20:45:51 http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302960 if anyone's interested 20:46:05 read the first sentence, then scroll down to see all the people who didn't 20:46:09 to this day, classicists skeeve me right the fuck out. 20:48:10 which one is tarqin again? elan's dad? 20:48:26 Bike: yes 20:48:47 the joke is that he has a bunch of fans in the forum despite being obviously evil 20:49:08 weird 20:49:29 gitp is in a universe where "lawful good" is part of physics, you'd think that would discourage that sort of thing 20:50:03 basically it's some sort of GitP versus TV Tropes war 20:50:15 wow, please don't tell me any more about this. 20:50:37 ok 20:50:44 even though I find it hilarious, I'll stop 20:51:02 k 20:51:10 so anyway how about those esolangs 20:51:22 Bike: well I did Snowflake 20:51:36 oh right i was reading that article before 20:52:51 it's... kind of hard to understand 20:52:53 GTA V comes out tomorrow 20:53:57 kmc: Montréal's been plastered with stupid ads recently for that game. mainly boobs. 20:54:17 heh 20:54:21 saints row is already parodying it, i guess 20:54:28 i think that's been the case for years yeah 20:54:37 i mean gta specifically 20:54:42 I like boobs, but I might be ambivalent to negative about their use in advertising 20:54:51 it's an ais523 wall of text. i drifted off when it started explaining how the program modifies itself. 20:55:03 yeah that was kind of my reaction too >_< 20:55:09 hm, which reminds me 20:55:22 I'm going to have to write an interp and a program, I guess 20:55:22 ais523: is there any chance i could understand checkout if i made a little cpu on moy fpga 20:55:23 if you think that's bad try http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout :P 20:55:27 wow snap. 20:55:29 high five elliott 20:55:36 s/moy/my/ 20:55:39 elliott: hey, no fair, I can't keep Checkout straight either 20:55:54 so i'm going to take that as a no 20:56:00 whereas I have a pretty good intuitive understanding of Snowflake 20:56:32 I think it might be clearer as two separate languages 20:56:40 one that's just the original language 20:56:46 and one that does the self-modification 20:57:01 but basically, it's as complex as it is because I wanted the language to actually work 21:03:13 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:04:07 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0550321311002938#aff019 academia is great 21:06:11 Bike: uhm. the page, it is borken. 21:07:06 looks fine to me 21:07:13 maybe your browser isn't prepared for this level of authorship 21:07:45 jesus 21:07:50 is that averyone who worked on the LHC? 21:08:24 I wonder if there's a paper about the classification of finite simple groups with a similarly long authors list 21:08:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS_experiment sorta 21:09:23 wikipedia says the finite simple groups paper only has a hundred authors. boring! 21:09:47 it's not one paper. 21:12:10 Bike: http://i.imgur.com/hYxPyaR.png 21:12:32 does sciencedirect normall do that for you 21:12:57 no. 21:13:09 yes. 21:13:34 the home page is fine. as soon as I search for something, it borkenifies itself. 21:15:13 maybe try that for screenreaders link? 21:15:39 it spins... 21:15:51 ok ur fuked ok 21:16:35 `ghc 21:16:44 ... 21:16:44 ghc: no input files \ Usage: For basic information, try the `--help' option. 21:16:46 Oh 21:17:23 oerjan: O KAY. 21:17:24 `run ghc -e 'putStr "Hi!"' 21:17:32 Hi! 21:18:17 `run ghc -e 'print [1..]' 21:18:21 ​[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,11 21:19:19 kmc: good thread 21:19:23 kmc: should i read it 21:19:29 probably not 21:19:37 `run ghc -e 'let s = show s in s' 21:19:43 ​"\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 21:20:52 shachello. 21:21:19 helloily 21:21:35 i can't make up my mind about being in this channel now 21:23:21 i'd like to point out that I, Bike, am here 21:24:53 yes but you're also in #lisp 21:25:04 oh snap...................... 21:31:18 and you used to be #haskell "not anymore????" 21:31:34 i was there for like five minutes 21:31:38 my sister is a big fan of the gitp forums it turns out 21:31:51 it's my fault 21:32:30 whenever Bike is not in the room, all of the other characters should be asking "Where's Bike?" 21:32:35 Bike: seems like #lisp is a nice place. «ARGH ELISP». 21:32:44 `slist 21:32:46 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 21:34:01 (lisp 'lisbon) ; ==> t 21:34:11 boily: there is a pretty sad amount of smug vapid complaints about other languages, but i've seen that in every other language channel i've been in too so *shrug* 21:34:45 the really advanced language channels have smug vapid complaints about their own language too 21:35:02 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:35:17 i should just join ###biology and part all other channels 21:35:57 > concat $ fix (map (('(':).(++')').concat) . inits) 21:35:58 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 21:35:58 with actual ty... 21:36:33 ##bike still exists 21:36:46 > concat $ fix (map (('(':).(++")").concat).inits) 21:36:46 "()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()((... 21:36:58 oh 21:37:02 and it even allows people to join it, strangely enough 21:38:46 > iterate ('(':).(++")")) "" 21:38:47 :1:23: parse error on input `)' 21:39:06 well, whatever, then. 21:39:24 that's not the same thing though 21:39:27 Bike: your lisp joke is so highbrow 21:39:32 my what 21:39:45 or maybe it's oerjan's 21:39:45 oh is that what oerjan was doing 21:39:49 i just wanted to see if i could fix it, lol 21:40:00 > concat $ fix (map (('0':).(++"1").concat).inits) 21:40:01 "01001100100111001001100100111100100110010011100100110010011111001001100100... 21:40:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:13 which sequence is that 21:40:24 heck if i know 21:40:35 the boily sequence 21:40:38 https://twitter.com/Haynes1980/status/291958991704178688 21:42:01 http://bbs.emath.ac.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=386 ← longer sequence subset, which has exactly 1 hit on google. 21:42:48 I don't know what “你厉害 0100110010011100100110010011110010011001001,,,” means, but it seems the Chinese people are onto something... 21:42:53 boily: googlewhack :) 21:44:02 chinese children, even 21:46:05 anyone who speaks one of the Chinese languages in this fine chännel? 21:46:06 btw if you're wondering it's essentially a list of von neumann numerals 21:46:14 ~duck von neumann numeral 21:46:14 --- No relevant information 21:46:30 metasepia: you really should know that 21:46:41 or maybe it's ordinal 21:46:48 ~duck von neumann ordinal 21:46:48 --- No relevant information 21:46:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:47:06 Bike died both from here and #lisp. 21:47:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_number#Von_Neumann_definition_of_ordinals 21:47:28 -!- Bike has joined. 21:48:36 oerjan: can't parse that. the mathematese is too heavy. 21:49:32 boily: 0 = {}, 1 = {0}, 2 = {0,1}, 3 = {0,1,2} , ... 21:50:20 oerjan: oh. 21:50:29 then remove the commas and turn braces into parens 21:50:53 then it becomes underload programs! 21:51:20 ^ul (())(:~:S:a*~:^):^ 21:51:20 :~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S ...too much output! 21:51:22 oops 21:51:33 ^ul (())(~:S:a*~:^):^ 21:51:33 ()()(())()(())(()(()))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:51:41 hm not quite 21:53:09 the people on #lisp seem to have a cheeky markovian bot too. fungot, how do you feel about that? 21:53:09 boily: ah. not really 21:53:44 ^ul ()(~:a*:S~:^):^ 21:53:44 ()()(())()(())(()(()))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:53:48 darn 21:54:17 ^ul ()(~:a*:aS~:^):^ 21:54:18 (())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(( ...too much output! 21:54:29 Bike: I see what yeta did there. 21:54:35 hm missing one 21:54:54 ^ul ()(~:aSa*~:^):^ 21:54:54 () ...out of stack! 21:54:57 eek 21:54:59 ! 21:55:03 wow. 21:55:36 it's nice to know your bosomed 21:55:39 whatever that means 21:55:47 you're* 21:55:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:51 well... I'm feminine. 21:55:56 ^ul ()(~:aS:a*~:^):^ 21:55:56 ()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:56:02 there 21:56:40 oerjan managed to von neumann the von neumann while he von neumanned in a von neumann. 21:57:21 damn straight! 21:57:49 which proves that von neumann was a smurf. 22:11:15 -!- Yonkie has joined. 22:12:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:13:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:15:15 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:15:56 `relcome Yonkie 22:16:03 ​Yonkie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:18:02 `slist 22:18:04 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 22:18:09 another? 22:18:47 oh. I missed the earlier one :/ 22:18:49 my fault 22:18:58 this incident will be reported 22:21:27 bleh, sudo quotes :( 22:21:35 it has so many ridiculous quotes, and yet people pick that one 22:23:06 I was surprised to find that it actually does report those incidents (if you e.g. configure outgoing mail), I got the report once 22:23:51 yeah, I've got them too 22:24:03 or at least, I found them just sitting in root's mailbox 22:24:16 I don't get /why/ it reports them 22:24:26 Well, you have to enable insults in order for sudo to give you the interesting messages. 22:24:31 given how you could write a wrapper around sudo that makes your experiments go unreported 22:25:07 hmm, wouldn't that be a bug in sudo? 22:25:10 maybe anybody savvy enough to do that isn't going to fuck up sudo in the first place 22:25:35 olsner: well people have found actual security bugs in sudo 22:25:49 some way to get %n into a printf string was the most recent, I think 22:26:16 how would yo uwrite that wrapper? 22:26:23 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:26:49 sudo has insults? 22:27:33 sudoers(5): "insults -- If set, sudo will insult users when they enter an incorrect password. This flag is off by default." 22:28:42 ais523: I'd think the underlying authentication library would log and report the failure regardless. 22:28:53 kmc: sudo -l "$@" && sudo "$@" 22:29:01 I think 22:29:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:31:04 wow, this is mindbogglingly hard to test 22:31:16 due to all my non-sudoers accounts not having passwords 22:32:49 you cannot test security because it's too good 22:35:09 I managed to lock up my copy of Mathematica several times on balloon-related differential equations, and subsequently got my IP address banned from Wolfram|Alpha for making too many requests. 22:35:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:37 the horror. 22:35:48 I'm going to take this as evidence that Mathematica sucks ;) 22:36:52 it's not /just/ my weird similar-but-not-identical-to-turing-machine automata that make its performance start really sucking 22:37:18 http://i.imgur.com/wkygDoR.png 22:37:23 to be fair it does seem pretty good for multimedia type things 22:37:52 kmc: #drugz? 22:37:56 yeah 22:38:02 this must be those personalized google results I keep hearing about 22:38:10 i get the same actually :D 22:38:15 on image search, anyway 22:38:17 so do i 22:38:18 Mathematica is good at things that were considered when writing it 22:38:22 maybe you've just corrupted us all 22:38:27 it's probably one of the first non-general-purpose programming languages 22:38:39 er 22:38:43 basically it's just a really optimized, large, library 22:38:48 containing lots of routines 22:38:49 ais523: i've been complaining about matlab elsewhere. am i allowed to feel solidarity with you 22:39:04 Bike: oh, matlab sucks in entirely different and unrelate ways 22:39:07 *unrelated 22:39:11 way to cheer me up! 22:39:20 i almost did a course in matlab 22:39:31 I had to do a project with it, because that's what the lecturer requested 22:39:49 and it was really hard to write the report in a way that covered up the arithmetic errors 22:39:56 sounds awful 22:39:57 (which I think were the result of stack smashing or something like that) 22:40:02 so far i've learned that the "ones" function, that is described as just returning an array of ones, has over nine different calling conventions, several of which involves literal strings 22:40:06 (because it often crashed rather than getting the values wrong) 22:40:16 -s 22:40:52 i've heard bad things about matlab, like these things you're saying just now. 22:41:02 GHARGH! WHY MUST YOU BE FAILING ME NOW! all I want is /r/nosleep's top submissions for the past month! 22:41:03 ur welcome. 22:41:30 (also a hit from the same course: "spnet.cpp - C program to [...]") 22:41:30 mnoqy: I've got it to dump Java stack traces to the console 22:41:32 i did about one exercise in it; that was enough to convince me that i never wanted to use it again 22:41:41 source*, interesting typo 22:44:59 :t listArray 22:45:00 Ix i => (i, i) -> [e] -> Array i e 22:45:32 > listArray ((-1,-1),(1,1)) $ repeat 1 22:45:33 array ((-1,-1),(1,1)) [((-1,-1),1),((-1,0),1),((-1,1),1),((0,-1),1),((0,0),... 22:45:50 ? 22:46:04 oh. 22:46:09 Bike: array of ones 22:46:27 well can you write a function that can return either an array of int8 1s or double 1s!! 22:49:06 > let ones = listArray ((-1,-1),(1,1)) $ repeat 1; ones :: Num n => Array (Int,Int) n in (ones :: Array (Int,Int) Int8, ones :: Array (Int,Int) Double) 22:49:07 (array ((-1,-1),(1,1)) [((-1,-1),1),((-1,0),1),((-1,1),1),((0,-1),1),((0,0)... 22:49:11 Bike: MAYBE 22:49:46 uh i meant like «ones ((-1,-1),(1,1)) "Int8"» obviously 22:49:48 you're failing me dude 22:50:10 sorry, no dependent typing 22:50:22 so matlab is dependently typed 22:50:24 haskell is inferior. 22:50:28 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:45 time to disappear in the Great Coldish Outside, while Bike sputters heresies. 22:52:00 don't forget to bring your ix 22:52:10 will do. 22:52:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: poutine!). 22:52:18 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:59 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 22:56:38 say I make a language that's essentially Thue but when you make a rule "original::=replacement", "original" is a regular expression, and "replacement" may contain "\0", "\1", etc., where \n means the substring that was matched by the nth group in the regular expression 22:56:53 is that too much redundant with an existing language or is it ok to make a page for it? 22:57:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:05:31 Koen__: it's not massively interesting 23:05:37 it's like a wimpmode Thue 23:05:48 or possibly a hardmode Thutu 23:10:30 also, i vaguely recall it's been made already? 23:11:47 well, thutu of course 23:12:12 -!- Bike has joined. 23:13:31 oh REBEL 23:13:39 didn't Koen__ mention that earlier 23:14:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:03 oh 23:15:37 for some reason i've never read the rebel page 23:16:23 everytime I decide to read all pages in the category string-rewriting, I quickly end up with a huge tree of pages to read (half of which from wikipedia) 23:16:42 there are too many webpages in the internet 23:17:44 yep. 23:20:27 yup that's exactly the language I had been looking for 23:20:35 feeling less lonely now 23:20:51 thanks! 23:22:14 yw 23:33:50 A great idea emerged #elsewhere. Make an easier variant for kids of a certain well-known esoteric programming language, name it with s/brain/child/. 23:35:48 that's a bad idea. 23:39:40 great idea 23:42:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:48:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2013-09-17: 00:05:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:24:11 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 00:41:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:50:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:53:42 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 01:08:43 -!- b4dh3r0 has joined. 01:13:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:17:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:19:17 -!- augur has joined. 01:24:18 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:30:45 Tcl makes me think of a wolf in sheep's clothing whereas Lisp is a wolf in wolf's clothing. Lisp, no one would try to modify someone else's code without trying to learn the language. Tcl, the language looks ... almost familiar, but if you don't know the language, there's a ton of things to screw up including possible security holes 01:31:08 Tcl looks too inviting for how dangerous it is to try to write code without knowing the language 01:32:20 i don't think i've ever seen a picture of a sheep wearing clothes 01:33:21 Sgeo: interesting 01:37:47 it seems like a lot of languages can get like that sometimes 01:37:53 especially if they're "C-like" or whatever shit 01:38:26 http://www.kocjan.org/tclmentor/5-why-double-evaluation-is-baaad.html 01:39:16 oh, multiple evaluation is fun 01:42:20 button $buttonname -command "puts $mymessage" 01:42:22 ^^ bad 01:42:29 button $buttonname -command [list puts $mymessage] 01:42:30 correct 01:42:35 http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang.tcl/fmm.html 01:43:01 homoiconicity useful, huh 01:44:29 Err, are you trying to suggest Tcl isn't homoiconic? 01:44:39 no 01:45:07 just commenting a bit on using a data structure (if a simple one) making more sense than a string, is all 01:45:44 Well, a list is a string in Tcl. 01:46:01 Just... the list command's the better way to construct that string 01:46:31 What's annoying is that a script, several commands, isn't a simple Tcl structure like a list 01:55:03 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:15:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 02:17:01 okay, well, that's pretty weird. 02:18:34 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortuna_%28PRNG%29 02:18:42 That's so incredibly easy for even me to understand 02:19:45 it's kind of weird how 'family of' means 'parametrized' 02:27:35 -!- b4dh3r0 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:01:17 Bike: http://unicode-inc.blogspot.com/2013/09/henry-luce-foundation-grant-to-unicode.html "Henry Luce Foundation Grant to Unicode in Support of Encoding Tangut" 03:01:50 Let’s form a foundation and give a grant to Unicode in support of encoding Klingon. 03:02:15 Cool, I didn't know you could throw money at Unicode to get a new language in! 03:02:35 yeah me either! 03:03:07 But clearly we should choose hieroglyphs and hieratics. 03:03:15 are they not in there already? 03:03:20 it's times like these that I'm glad I follow the Unicode Consortium on Twitter 03:03:23 Bike: nope 03:03:26 huh, i forgot 'tangutology' was a thing 03:03:41 Bike: Shockingly, no. 03:03:59 Gregor: it's like determining how many glyphs can be considered as a character as per the Unicode standard 03:04:01 NOWAIT YES 03:04:01 sometimes it's hard to remember that china is actually at least as diverse as europe 03:04:03 2009 03:04:07 thank god. 03:04:23 for historical scripts like Tangut, it does take lots of works and also money 03:04:27 i think the only sort of that text i've triedd to read were some old coptic letters. they didn't render but by god they had characters 03:06:09 Gregor: so is that just hieroglyphs or also hieratics? 03:06:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/Defcon/comments/1jvnhb/maybe_a_dumb_question_regarding_the_documentary/ also what 03:12:51 http://threewordphrase.com/hostage.htm 03:16:29 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:20:40 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 03:21:14 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Client Quit). 03:22:21 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 03:30:04 http://www.ibtimes.com/firefox-vs-chrome-mozilla-takes-top-honors-latest-web-browser-grand-prix-1330329 03:30:10 It was in the nonperformance categories like memory efficiency, reliability, security and standards conformance that Firefox was really able to shine. 03:30:17 Firefox? Memory efficient? 03:37:06 "I just downloaded this because you said my current browser did not support my Google+ account; just to read you are retiring it! Then why did you offer it at all for downloading? I hope there will be suggestions by Jan 2014 what browser does support Google+!" 03:37:10 [about Chrome Frame] 04:20:40 Sgeo: yeah it's almost like when one browser gets better at something, the other manufacturers work to catch up 04:24:56 #define rand01 (0.9999999*double(rand())/RAND_MAX) 04:28:19 Sgeo: I use Firefox at work and Chrome at home and I don't notice a performance difference anymore 04:28:23 but the work machine is pretty beefy 04:28:34 Chrome is still markedly better than Firefox on my pathetic pre-Atom netbook 04:50:20 `slist 04:50:25 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:57:03 «fscanf( stream, "%d", &dd); post[i][j]=dd; fscanf( stream, "%f", &x); s[i][j]=x; fscanf( stream, "%f", &x); sd[i][j]=x;» 05:01:47 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:02:49 -!- audioPhil has joined. 05:02:50 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 05:02:50 -!- audioPhil has joined. 05:02:50 -!- litrink has joined. 05:03:03 How could you crack/attack this vignere cipher? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LdWfKLtP 05:03:55 hire djb 05:04:26 litrink: do you know the characteristics of plaintext? 05:04:41 lifthrasiir: Nope 05:06:10 The hint I received was that the cipher was described in a book from 1553 La cifra del 05:08:34 is it so far unsolved? 05:11:48 lifthrasiir: yes 05:13:13 this again 05:14:05 i'd like to note that my algorithm is constant time 05:14:21 What algorithm? 05:14:38 hiring djb to do it for me 05:15:13 Bike: What is djb? 05:16:09 so this person is daakl / sdile / dlackili / sardig / mafingre / xantrixo / etc yes? 05:16:17 and therefore evading bans 05:16:23 I think we got tired of your act a while ago 05:16:44 kmc: Which person? 05:16:47 you 05:17:02 What do you mean? 05:17:46 whatever 05:18:20 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc. 05:18:23 -!- kmc has kicked litrink litrink. 05:18:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o kmc. 05:18:56 -!- carado has joined. 05:21:56 shoulda had "whatever" as the kick reason 05:22:03 tru 05:57:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:00:10 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:01:05 -!- Yonkie_ has joined. 06:02:58 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:05:26 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 06:07:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:08:11 -!- variable has joined. 06:08:53 -!- rodgort` has joined. 06:09:05 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- Yonkie has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:06 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:09:39 -!- SirCmpwn_ has joined. 06:09:39 -!- SirCmpwn_ has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 06:12:26 -!- yiyus has joined. 06:15:43 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 06:18:13 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:18:15 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:18:16 -!- Fiora has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:19:14 -!- myndzl has joined. 06:19:37 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 06:21:24 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 06:22:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:22:30 -!- salparot__ has joined. 06:23:08 -!- ssue___ has joined. 06:23:52 -!- Fiora_ has changed nick to Fiora. 06:24:34 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:24:34 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:24:35 -!- ssue___ has changed nick to ssue__. 06:24:56 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:25:04 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:25:14 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 06:25:36 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:25:43 -!- myname has joined. 06:31:01 -!- ggherdov has joined. 06:33:46 -!- Bike has joined. 06:34:46 -!- jconn has joined. 06:39:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:38 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Changing host). 06:53:38 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 06:53:39 -!- ssue__ has quit (Changing host). 06:53:39 -!- ssue__ has joined. 06:53:39 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 06:53:39 -!- ggherdov has joined. 07:13:30 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:14:16 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:29:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:37:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:10:04 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:17:51 `slist 08:17:55 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:32:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:45:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:18:44 -!- itsy has joined. 09:41:36 "Jura [a fancy coffee-grinding-and-brewing-machine in one of the department break rooms] is undergoing maintenance as of today. Coffee substitute (also known as regular coffee) is available during Jura's hopefully short absence." 09:41:45 Those people take their coffee very seriously. 09:53:26 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:01:42 -!- itsy has changed nick to john_metcalf. 10:20:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:30:05 -!- yorick has joined. 10:46:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:18:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:53:28 -!- Koen has joined. 11:54:17 -!- Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:54:28 -!- Koen has joined. 11:55:44 -!- ambiltrif has joined. 11:55:50 http://pastebin.com/L5da2KjQ I am making a tic tac toe game in C, How can this code/algorithm be made better? 11:55:55 Or can someone show me a better/alternative approach? 11:57:47 btw you included stdlib.h but I don't think you're using it 11:58:46 apparently you're deciding which player is at turn by looking at what symbol they put in the grid? 11:59:03 now i'm smelling mafingre too 11:59:22 except the ip is australian. but he may have learned. 12:01:01 -!- augur has joined. 12:02:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:02:44 -!- augur has joined. 12:03:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:03:36 -!- augur has joined. 12:04:24 if you are him _and_ litrink, then you are getting hard to ban. 12:05:00 obviously banning all of freenode's web gateway is unacceptable. 12:06:23 oh hm 12:10:16 damn i wish i'd seen this before. 12:11:08 also that some other relevant ops were actually not idle. 12:11:39 Koen: Yes I am doing that. 12:12:06 `pastelogs ambiltrif 12:12:18 oerjan: what? 12:12:29 @let xo s=let[p,q]=(show=<<).(`elemIndices`filter(/='|')s)."XO";i(n,[])=":-"++["(|O"!!(n+1)];i(_,q)=c q."012|345|678"++if w q then" :-)"else"";c q x|x=='|'='|'|elem x p='X'|elem x q='O'|True='.';w p=ap(==)(sort.intersect p)`any`words"012 345 678 036 147 258 048 246";n=first(0-);x a b p q|w p=(1,[])|w q=(-1,[])|True=z$(:p).(['0'..'8']\\union p q)where z[]=(0,[]);z m=foldr y a m;y p a|a .L.hs:156:13: 12:12:30 Couldn't match expected type `[[Char]]' 12:12:30 ... 12:12:31 ambiltrif: i'm wondering if you've been here before 12:12:34 the name sounds like ambf 12:12:48 HackEgo: SNAPPY 12:13:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9680 12:13:04 oerjan: I have been here once or twice 12:13:07 a while back 12:13:26 ambiltrif: under which nick? 12:13:44 amf 12:13:46 ambf 12:13:50 oh 12:13:56 `pastelogs ambf 12:14:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28152 12:14:34 ambiltrif: we're getting paranoid about a person coming in and trolling us with changing nicks 12:14:39 that's a language 12:14:52 who? 12:15:00 ambf 12:15:03 Also Jafet What is that? 12:15:05 fine, that's proof enough. 12:15:08 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 12:15:14 -!- oerjan has kicked ambiltrif ambiltrif. 12:15:48 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +bprt #esoteric!*@*. 12:15:50 @let xo=let[p,q]=(show=<<).(`elemIndices`filter(/='|')s)<$>"XO";i(n,[])=":-"++["(|O"!!(n+1)];i(_,q)=c q<$>"012|345|678"++if w q then" :-)"else"";c q x|x=='|'='|'|elem x p='X'|elem x q='O'|True='.';w p=ap(==)(sort.intersect p)`any`words"012 345 678 036 147 258 048 246";n=first(0-);x a b p q|w p=(1,[])|w q=(-1,[])|True=z$(:p)<$>(['0'..'8']\\union p q)where z[]=(0,[]);z m=foldr y a m;y p a|a Plugin `eval' failed with: Ambiguous infix expression 12:15:55 wat 12:16:06 Why does lambdabot library keep changing 12:16:13 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:18:19 wtf did i ban. 12:18:41 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -bprt #esoteric!*@*. 12:18:52 Uh... 12:19:03 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@a:perdent. 12:19:08 wrong order. 12:27:40 fizzie: i hope i was not wrong in concluding ambiltrif was another mafingre etc. troll nick, but combined with the lintril earlier today the style seems extremely similar. 12:28:07 *litrink 12:28:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:31:45 oh hm that was the wrong syntax, sheesh 12:32:01 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@a:perdent. 12:32:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b $a:perdent. 12:32:25 there you go. i hope. 12:32:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 12:34:19 oerjan: how's he a troll? he was just asking a question about tictactoe :( 12:35:12 Koen: Also spamming the same question to all manner of unrelated channels. 12:35:17 Koen: he's identical to someone who has been trolling before, with stupid off topic stuff. 12:35:44 At least ##asm of the channels I'm on. 12:35:46 fizzie: oh did you see it in other channels? it would really help if people _told_ me this stuff as i'm only in a couple. 12:36:15 good. nails the evidence completely, then. 12:37:53 @let xo s=let[p,q]=map((show=<<).(`elemIndices`filter(/='|')s))"XO";i(n,[])=":-"++["(|O"!!(n+1)];i(_,q)=map(c q)"012|345|678"++if w q then" :-)"else"";c q x|x=='|'='|'|elem x p='X'|elem x q='O'|True='.';w p=ap(==)(sort.intersect p)`any`words"012 345 678 036 147 258 048 246";n=first(0-);x a b p q|w p=(1,[])|w q=(-1,[])|True=z$map(:p)(['0'..'8']\\union p q)where z[]=(0,[]);z m=foldr y a m;y p a|a .L.hs:178:14: 12:37:54 Couldn't match expected type `(Int, [Char])' 12:37:54 ... 12:38:00 Koen: also it doesn't matter how innocuous the question is if he's already banned here, the evasion is re-bannable in itself. 12:38:07 @let xo s=let[p,q]=map((show=<<).(`elemIndices`filter(/='|')s))"XO";i(n,[])=":-"++["(|O"!!(n+1)];i(_,q)=map(c q)"012|345|678";c q x|x=='|'='|'|elem x p='X'|elem x q='O'|True='.';w p=ap(==)(sort.intersect p)`any`words"012 345 678 036 147 258 048 246";n=first(0-);x a b p q|w p=(1,[])|w q=(-1,[])|True=z$map(:p)(['0'..'8']\\union p q)where z[]=(0,[]);z m=foldr y a m;y p a|a Defined. 12:38:24 > xo "...|.X.|..." 12:38:29 "...|.X.|..O" 12:42:33 -!- boily has joined. 12:42:58 -!- audioPhil has joined. 12:42:58 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 12:42:58 -!- audioPhil has joined. 12:48:27 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:48:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: KERNEL!). 12:50:19 -!- boily has joined. 12:52:09 -!- audioPhil has joined. 12:52:42 good Linux for Workgroups morning! 12:53:02 good afternoon 12:54:41 guten moily 12:55:45 クイント早う。 12:58:05 i don't read that 12:58:17 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 12:59:23 quintopia: quintohayō. 12:59:45 @tell fizzie What is a coyote? 12:59:45 Consider it noted. 13:00:17 * quintopia sends a coyote after lambdabot 13:01:34 -!- fizzie has joined. 13:03:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:04:22 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:04:22 @wn coyote 13:04:23 *** "coyote" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 13:04:23 coyote 13:04:23 n 1: small wolf native to western North America [syn: {coyote}, 13:04:23 {prairie wolf}, {brush wolf}, {Canis latrans}] 13:04:23 2: someone who smuggles illegal immigrants into the United 13:04:25 [3 @more lines] 13:04:44 (For some unknowable reason, it's the default quit message of bip.) 13:05:16 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:05:25 bip bip obvious if you know 13:05:26 fizzie: wile e. coyote? 13:06:33 argh double version 13:06:39 -!- Bike has joined. 13:07:51 oerjan: Oh, for some reason I didn't realize it could have been named after that. 13:09:40 some unknowable reason 13:12:46 so, my C is rusty and all, but you could write «fscanf( stream, "%f", &x); v[i]=x; fscanf( stream, "%f", &x); u[i]=x;» as «fscanf(stream,"%f%f",&(v[i]),&(u[i]))» or something, couldn't you? 13:13:38 Assuming the types of x and v[i]/u[i] are not different. 13:13:59 you can divide an array by an array in rust? 13:14:05 (The parens in &(v[i]) are also not strictly necessary.) 13:14:37 s/not different/all 'float'/. 13:14:38 Hm, actually x is a float and v and u are double [arrays] 13:14:43 Well, then you can't. 13:14:53 what's the former do, then? 13:15:04 Reads a float, converts it to a double. 13:15:15 could you do (float)&(v[i]) and so on? 13:15:16 You could make it "%lf", &v[i] to read a double directly, but it wouldn't be exactly same. 13:15:19 No. 13:15:43 (float)&v[i] would be incredibly wrong, because it would try to convert the pointer to a float. 13:15:53 er, float*. 13:16:00 though i'm guessing still no. 13:16:00 That would not help. 13:16:22 It would still write a float in an array of doubles. 13:16:36 a cast cannot change the underlying representation of the pointed to array 13:16:57 Reading it as double with "%lf" is arguably better (you don't have the accuracy loss of the float intermediary), but not an equivalent operation. 13:17:32 I suppose it's a judgement call whether the original author wrote it that way because he/she wanted the float semantics, or because he/she just didn't know about %lf. 13:18:08 given this is the "C program" called .cpp i'm inclined to the latter 13:18:45 plus there's similar code later but with %d and int. 13:19:03 In that case, fscanf(stream, "%lf%lf", &v[i], &u[i]) might be a reasonable replacement. 13:19:17 (I suppose there's no checking of return values either?) 13:19:42 in what kind of application would you want it to go through float, anyway 13:19:54 Checking? 13:20:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:20:51 I can't think of an example other than "bug-compliant reimplementation of X", but that doesn't mean there isn't any. 13:21:09 Sometimes you might need exactly identical results. 13:21:36 hm, well, thanks. 13:21:51 (if you mean checking whether fscanf actually reads enough values then no) 13:21:57 Right. 13:26:39 I have audio files with transcripts where each line has one word along its start and end times. Now I'd need to inspect whether they are correct by some random listening. Do you happen to know of any useful software for this, and/or some easily-scriptable Python-or-something audio-playing library that'd make it easy to whip up code that, say, prints out the text one word at a time, sync'd with ... 13:26:45 ... the audio? 13:27:45 gstreamer. strangely, the amount of effort to bootstrap a minimal audio player with it is very small. 13:29:28 Grrr... "To use this software you need to restart your computer" 13:29:44 -!- john_metcalf has left. 13:29:45 Mhm. I wonder if mplayer/vlc can display subtitles for audio files. It would be very simple to convert those files into .srt or something. 13:30:39 The "subtitle" menu seems to be grayed-out in vlc for a .wav. (But I suppose it would be reasonably simple to multiplex in a black screen.) 13:31:39 multiplexing seems to be the way, but mencoder is a pain in the fungot. can vlc be used for this kind of task? 13:31:40 boily: any web page that lame is not to require heap in low memory. i think 13:32:34 there needs to be something as simple and straightforward as imagemagick's convert for scripted video authoring. 13:33:08 There's ffmpeg/avconv. 13:33:17 oh. didn't know about that. 13:33:41 You can (probably) use a single image as a single-frame "video" and have it loop the shorter file. 13:35:50 In fact, a plain avconv -i black.png -i sound.wav -acodec copy -vcodec mjpeg test.avi seems to have worked. 13:39:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: What about sea monkeys). 13:40:37 fizzie: I suppose doing an s/avconv/ffmpeg/ will work too, as it seems I am still on the unforked side of the fforce. 13:41:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:47:22 "SUB: Could not determine file format" grumble grumble. 13:47:33 VLC showed a subtitle track, but did not display anything. 13:48:10 I wonder if it's because there's only one video frame. 13:49:09 "video:5kB audio:546403kB" heh. 13:50:47 you need more black screens. 13:50:48 Ah, "avconv -loop 1 -i black.png ..." makes a more proper video. 13:51:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:53:54 Yay, it works. And the alignment was reasonable, for the first minute. 13:54:45 cat out.txt | grep -v '^$' | grep -v '^#' | perl -ne 'BEGIN { binmode STDOUT, ":encoding(ISO-8859-1)"; binmode STDIN, ":utf8"; } chomp; ($s,$e,$t) = split; printf "%d\r\n%02d:%02d:%02d,%03d --> %02d:%02d:%02d,%03d\r\n%s\r\n\r\n", ++$idx, $s/3600, ($s/60)%60, $s%60, ($s*1000)%1000, $e/3600, ($e/60)%60, $e%60, ($e*1000)%1000, $t;' > out.srt 13:54:46 -!- conehead has joined. 13:54:51 Very elegant. 13:56:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:56:53 that is disgusting. you could have replaced the cat|grep|grep with «grep -Ev '^$|^#' out.txt». 13:57:58 otherwise, the perl is... well, it's perl. 13:58:54 (urgh. I'm being corrupted by my sysadmin coworkers...) 14:06:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:09:14 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 14:16:05 boily: Well, you know what they say... 14:17:46 Roujo: they say not to do stupid things to the poor machines, or else your disk quota will be reduced and your VMs crippled. 14:18:24 So it goes 14:41:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:04:48 random Haskell question: why should datatype fields be strict? 15:05:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 15:07:25 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-06-molydeux-one-of-the-reasons-molyneux-left-microsoft 15:07:43 i wonder if molyneux realises he's become a parody of himself 15:09:35 -!- Gregor` has joined. 15:13:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:14:33 Freeń dobry. 15:14:55 Dzień you mean? 15:15:10 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to DzieFull. 15:16:17 we had a bout of internationalised greetings a few hours ago. 15:17:16 boily: how do i greet someone in quebeckqcqois 15:17:38 oops forgot my accents: québèckqçqöis 15:18:24 nooodl: same as in standard French. happens that we still haven't butchered greetings yet... 15:18:41 aw 15:18:47 (and I'll have to remember that créatif spelling of québèckqçqöis.) 15:19:47 nooodl: well. you have «comment va?», between people from Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean. otherwise, the province-wide «pis, à part de tsa?» is another clasic. 15:20:35 but they are neither very close to «bonjour» and «bon matin». 15:26:12 I generally don't bother to optimize one-off command lines, but instead write them the way I think them. 15:26:36 Anyway, I could've obviously replaced both greps with the perl. 15:29:17 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Gregor. 15:30:20 I ought to learn basic Estonian. it looks like it sounds good. 15:47:22 -!- conehead has joined. 15:52:01 -!- Bike has joined. 15:53:51 -!- john_metcalf has joined. 16:00:57 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:02:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:04:13 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 16:10:58 boily, isn't it just hipster finnish 16:12:04 Aaaah I have a dwarf fortress badge 16:12:08 And I don't quite know how 16:14:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:18:23 -!- Koen has joined. 16:20:01 -!- Yonkie_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:23:45 Taneb, as in an actual badge 16:24:11 You know, design attached to a safety pin type thing 16:24:18 how 16:24:21 i want one 16:24:32 I don't know! 16:24:56 well let me have it then 16:25:06 No, it's mine 16:25:07 I found it 16:25:10 On my bedroom floor 16:25:41 maybe i'll stop by in york then 16:25:56 with a sack of bricks 16:27:44 I'm not in York yet 16:27:52 Term starts stupid late 16:28:34 how stupid 16:29:20 what, really? it's practically october. 16:29:42 term starts mid-november here 16:30:18 impossible 16:30:22 also hey your underscores are gone 16:30:35 wow 16:30:43 TIME TO REGISTER 16:30:47 thank you for telling me 16:31:09 one of many lovely services i provide 16:31:18 NickServ: Koen is already registered. 16:31:26 okay 16:31:29 oh no 16:31:38 time to never log out and hope I don't get ghosted 16:47:06 -!- DzieFull has changed nick to FreeFull. 16:48:26 "Last seen : Sep 17 06:09:05 2013 (10 hours, 39 minutes, 0 seconds ago)" it's not even an inactive account. 16:55:12 Phantom_Hoover: well... there may be that... >_>... 16:55:19 fizzie: he's usually ALWAYS connected 16:55:29 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:55:50 and by connected I mean logged in 16:59:57 12:59:22 except the ip is australian. but he may have learned. 17:00:11 @tell oerjan mafingre is always australian. but different ISPs (sometimes mobile broadband, sometimes university, it seems) 17:00:12 Consider it noted. 17:00:58 https://medium.com/weird-future/2acc5ba75929 very nice. 17:01:04 @tell oerjan my suggestion is anyone who comes in on webchat with an australian IP and links to pastebin.com, it's almost certainly them. if they evade the question of whether it is then you can discard any remaining doubts 17:01:04 Consider it noted. 17:01:16 @tell oerjan also I really wish they'd go away, it's not very fun any more. 17:01:16 Consider it noted. 17:01:24 The roots of this division are sadly rooted in humanity’s pre-history. On the plains of our ancestors, male hunters roamed the savannah, chasing down prey, while women remained home to nurture families and gather berries. The males adapted for big movements and fast action, while the women adapted for slow, methodical searching. The traits that made women expert bug-huntresses in the dust have carried forward and given them an advantage a 17:02:03 @tell oerjan oh and the IPs have geolocated to both Perth and Victoria, seemingly moreso the latter. so there may be proxying going on, or maybe Australian internet is just weird. 17:02:03 Consider it noted. 17:04:05 elliott: are you discussing the ion lickers? 17:04:09 Bike: what is that blog??? 17:04:20 no, the challenge-givers :P 17:04:28 the licker gave up quickly, it seems. 17:05:26 and I have a slight little itty-bitty technical problem with metasepia. I registered the account with a randomly generated 14-char password. 17:05:35 (a password I have completely forgot.) 17:06:21 boily: looks like they have no about page.. 17:06:55 https://medium.com/weird-future/4927989f3ecd i'm thinking it's a good one, though ("Six Radical Life-Extension Technologies for Transhumanist Consideration") 17:14:28 boily: extract it from the binary? 17:15:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:19:00 fungot: Do you remember your account password at all? 17:19:01 fizzie: what's quack? i dont see a specific use of it, i'm afraid 17:28:25 elliott: it's not used from metasepia, it's just the freenode account I created afterwards... 17:28:54 think I can tell the guys at FN to reset the password for me, once I put the code on github and proove some legitimacy? 17:37:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:37:27 hmm, FN is the swedish acronym (abbreviation? initialism?) for UN, so for a while there I thought you would try to get the UN to reset your password 17:37:34 also I have lost my name 17:38:09 salparot__: that could also work. also, were you `relcommed? 17:38:37 I think I got here before relcome 17:38:47 -!- salparot__ has changed nick to olsner. 17:39:37 * boily falls back in surprise 17:45:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:46:12 ah! someone I know! 17:46:23 Tanello. 17:47:18 Hi 17:47:28 Or should I say... 17:47:33 bohily 17:55:09 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 17:57:58 -!- bike has joined. 18:04:52 "bollo" would also be fine. 18:05:28 bollo? 18:06:19 Streaming Dwarf Fortress @ 120x40 characters, telnet termcast.org 18:07:03 awesome, how is that done? 18:07:06 No I'm not, I messed up the init.txt 18:07:09 It's still 80x25 18:07:37 are you playing real-time at this very moment right now, or is it prerecorded? 18:07:38 what software is the streaming solution 18:07:48 i'd love doing something like that myself 18:08:05 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 18:08:24 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 18:08:24 -!- audioPhil has joined. 18:10:31 oh, stupid question 18:10:48 there appears to be some kind of ascii game playing itself in my console but I've got no idea what is going on 18:11:37 you don't know the great game dwarf fortress? 18:11:45 nope 18:12:03 DCSS is better than dwarf fortress :D 18:12:19 it's the most complex and genious game i ever played 18:12:31 Koen: it's not playing itself, I think Taneb is playing it 18:12:32 boily: i didn't got the hang of it, but it's hilarious 18:13:15 also, i find cataclysm really interesting 18:13:34 myname: which one? DCSS or DF? 18:15:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:15:42 DF is way better than DCSS 18:15:58 Taneb: "oh no is he making danger rooms..." 18:16:16 elliott: did you try cataclysm dda? 18:16:19 elliott, no I'm making a cunning trap 18:16:38 I've played cataclysm but not the fork 18:16:56 Taneb: your dwarves have oddly turkic names... 18:17:18 (with bits of Hungarian thrown in for good measure) 18:26:15 boily: Continuing from yesterday, a search over the Cabal Hoogle database locates the following >3 character operators: http://sprunge.us/PfCe 18:26:24 ^#->#? seems like a good one. 18:26:38 (Possibly I should try getting the packages in the above list.) 18:29:14 I feel watched by <<..>> ... 18:31:34 :$#$#$#: is a joke, right? 18:32:12 -!- bike has quit (Quit: fail/death). 18:34:37 boily: http://sprunge.us/bSiZ 18:35:06 (Disclaimer: might be misattributed, based on just looking at a previous "^module (.*)" line.) 18:36:31 And :$#$#$#: is indeed in http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/she/0.4/doc/html/ShePrelude.html#t::-36--35--36--35--36--35-: 18:37:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:38:04 Data.Composition has a kind of a cadddr thing going on there. 18:38:16 Control.Plumbers is pretty outrageous. 18:38:41 That's a many operators. 18:39:08 Oh, I seem to have messed up with commas in that new list, have to fix that. 18:41:08 NIB (http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/not-in-base/0.1.1/doc/html/NIB-Pointfree.html) provides some ingenious atrocities. 18:45:25 http://sprunge.us/MOWM -- one more version, sorted firstly by length of operator (reversed), secondly by the module in question and thirdly by the operator string -- should keep related operators grouped better. 18:46:49 I like the +~--- and ---~+ of BioInf.RNAfold. 18:47:09 pages and pages of supermarioperators... 18:47:33 what is a supermarioperator? 18:47:50 Lens is pretty well represented too. 18:48:23 `learn supermarioperator is one of many confusing operators as defined in Control.Plumbers.Monad. Your sanity is in another castle. 18:48:34 I knew that. 18:48:50 fizzie: is that a joke about lens and representability 18:49:14 It can be if you think a joke like that would make me look smart! 18:49:18 (But it wasn't, before.) 18:50:10 fungot: bro, do you even lens? 18:50:10 boily: s/ had/ have/ the epiphany address bar. 18:50:57 `pastewisdom 18:50:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 18:52:13 the pdf is missing the last few quotes... I need to find an easy way to synch it with the repo... 18:52:36 boily: Also, the operator length distribution: http://sprunge.us/GFTH (doesn't merge identical ones, otherwise the '1' would be pretty lame) 18:52:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 18:52:59 Ooh, I must also do a most-defined-operators thing. 18:53:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:54:53 http://sprunge.us/XhVd there you go. 18:56:13 http://sprunge.us/gUOX (all (!)s) 18:57:22 I guess <> comes from it not being defined in olden GHC distributions? 18:58:42 woah. holy uninputable unicode operators, batman! 18:58:43 -!- Bike has joined. 18:58:46 -!- conehead has joined. 19:01:41 `pastequotes 19:01:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:01:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12738 19:04:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:04:35 boily: Best idea ever: add git commit hooks to > and >> 19:05:00 `git 19:05:02 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: git: not found 19:05:08 Hmmmm 19:05:14 Can we install git on HackEgo? 19:05:29 hackego uses hg, you horrible being 19:05:56 can we wrap HackEgo in git, then? 19:06:03 But it would be sooo easy to just push the new wisdom files to GitHub! =P 19:06:57 :( 19:07:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:07:29 `help 19:07:30 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:07:40 Roujo: see: that 19:07:57 I klnow 19:07:59 know* 19:08:37 I'm just trying to think of a way to be able to push changes in wisdom/ to GitHub 19:08:44 Roujo: you have commit access to the wisdom repo. 19:08:52 boily: I know, thanks 19:09:12 I *could* just pull from HackEgo, then push to GitHub =P 19:09:17 Roujo: the sky is blue. 19:09:29 boily: I know, thanks =P 19:09:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:09:55 `fetch cat 19:09:56 wget: unable to resolve host address `cat' 19:09:59 Well crap 19:10:58 what were you expecting 19:11:04 Roujo: calamari is delicious. gravity curves light. russia is the most translated wikipédia article. Phantom_Hoover likes the diæresis. fungot is weird. 19:11:04 boily: ( begin ( 19:11:09 For HackEgo to find my cat >_> 19:13:33 `complain wget'ing the quotes takes forever 19:13:35 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:14:13 `complain s/quotes/wisdom files/g 19:14:14 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:14:44 Okay 19:14:48 So I can't just download the quotes 19:14:51 Which is sad 19:15:05 And I'm not wget the whole filesystem just to update the quotes 19:15:18 s/(wget)/going to \1/g 19:15:40 Roujo: pull the hg. 19:15:50 boily: Instructions unclear - got cancer 19:16:51 On a more serious note, what would the URL be? 19:17:49 `help 19:17:49 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:18:02 I know =P 19:18:07 But do I just pull that? 19:18:45 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:19:07 Roujo: just a moment... 19:19:19 boily: I think I got it 19:19:58 Roujo: hg clone http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg the first time, hg pull in the project's root after. 19:20:40 Yeah, cloning right now 19:20:52 I just didn't think that that URL would be the correct one for a clone 19:23:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:24:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:27:17 Oh shit 19:27:21 Error 500 on GitHub 19:27:22 Wooo 19:28:00 boily: Is GitHub down for you? 19:28:18 me too 19:28:21 Nevermind =P 19:28:24 https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/380049976862461952 19:28:41 bon, maudit, encore une fois... 19:28:51 Woot woot 19:29:05 Juste comme j'allais réussir à commiter =P 19:32:25 Down for Maintenance, now 19:34:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:36:22 -!- Bike has joined. 19:36:36 `fetch https://github.com 19:36:38 https://github.com/: \ 2013-09-17 19:36:37 ERROR 503: Service Temporarily Unavailable. 19:36:41 WELL CRAP 19:40:21 fungot: ♪ding♪! you have quotes! 19:40:21 boily: but ep2 and ep3 are operationally equivalent in _this_ order of evaluation than has been wasted due to duplication? :) 19:40:43 fungot: yes, there is some slight duplication, but the order was preserved. 19:40:44 boily: since in this way. if after a decrement a number equals 127 then an answer reversal byte is toggled. it has parts. 19:41:17 fungot: can't remember if you had quote 128 (which is decremented). you still have 72 shiny featured quotes in your name! 19:41:19 ain't that the truth. 19:42:55 boily: boily: boily: it worked! 19:43:40 Roujo: なに? :p 19:43:50 `? solain 19:43:52 Check the reposotory ^^ 19:43:53 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 19:44:05 `? bienvenue 19:44:07 Bienvenue sur le centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d’ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 19:44:20 Roujo: got an e-mail celebrating that! 19:44:33 `echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d’ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:44:35 Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d’ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:44:39 ... 19:44:52 What did I destroy now 19:45:03 `echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:05 Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:11 SURE 19:45:14 Oh 19:45:20 `run echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:21 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 19:45:31 `run echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. \(Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.\) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:32 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 19:45:38 `run echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. \(Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.\) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:40 Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez 19:45:51 `run echo Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. \(Pour l’autre type d\'ésotérisme, essayez \#esoteric sur irc.dal.net.\) > wisdom/bienvenue 19:45:54 No output. 19:45:56 There 19:46:02 `run cat wisdom/bienvenue 19:46:03 Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 19:50:44 boily: Alright, automated that with a nice script 19:53:23 boily: So yeah, it's done. Every quote *should* be on GitHub now ^^ 19:53:49 good! 19:53:52 Wait. Not quote. Wisdom. 19:53:56 `run ls 19:53:58 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 19:54:02 Hmmm 19:54:03 `? koen 19:54:05 koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:54:06 | 19:54:06 º¯`\o 19:54:08 `run ls quotes 19:54:10 quotes 19:54:14 `run ls quotes/ 19:54:16 ls: cannot access quotes/: Not a directory 19:54:20 Oh, it's a file 19:54:22 Alright =P 19:54:33 Koen: who are you? I'd prefer having a nice learndb of you before adding your quotes to the PDF. 19:55:00 `quote fungot 19:55:00 kmc: you don't need to 19:55:01 505) now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." \ 591) anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper \ 896) fungot knows all. oerjan: you are correct. there's no freedom for free. \ 951) * fungot h 19:55:16 kmc: you can check fungot's collected quotes in the PDF now. 19:55:16 boily: i don't know 19:55:21 link? 19:55:26 fungot: yes you do, you nimrod. 19:55:27 boily: just dissolve the pills in your beverage of choice before hand. d:... 19:55:44 fungot: no need to poison me. you should be grateful! 19:55:44 boily: wait, you probally did that already 19:55:48 fungot: yes I did. 19:55:49 boily: i'm learning scheme. the vm binary fits in about 128k on some platforms. 19:55:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:56:04 fungot: neat. I read the R5RS myself some time ago. 19:58:06 kmc: I think it's the one in the topic 19:58:22 o 19:59:10 Roujo: could you fix your git identity? it's showing up as = <=>. c'est pas beau. 19:59:22 that's quite the document 20:00:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:01:13 boily: Wait what? 20:02:18 I was sure I set that up =/ 20:03:29 Oh 20:03:32 -!- S1 has joined. 20:03:42 git config --global user.name = Jonathan Rouillard 20:03:52 ^ This gives you three names: =, Jonathan and Rouillard 20:03:54 (gg) 20:04:01 Can I fix this on GitHub? =/ 20:04:20 for those commit already made? bad idea. 20:04:25 BAH 20:05:37 `? Roujo 20:05:38 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. 20:06:36 boily: In any case, it'll be fixed for the next comments 20:07:14 commits* 20:07:22 ttyrec seems not to work with curseofwar :( 20:07:25 boily: eh, the last attempt to `learn me was dimmed too lazy 20:08:15 Koen: oh. I put a note from the Editor as a placeholder. hth. 20:08:27 `? Koen 20:08:29 Koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:08:29 | 20:08:30 o/`¯º 20:08:41 is that so 20:10:54 any Channelder who dares to describe Koen? 20:11:26 btw the new youtube buttons are aweful 20:12:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:13:23 will I ever comprehend? 20:14:14 nope 20:14:23 Do you? 20:14:27 Uh sry I mean 20:14:33 S1: see the /topic ↑. read. peruse. grok. flabbergast. 20:14:59 Emphasis on "Flabbergast" 20:15:36 and I have this sudden urge to apply Dr. Oerjan's Patented Flyswatter on the espèce d'achigan de brochet de perchaude who added LaTeX to the DB. 20:17:15 `? LaTeX 20:17:17 LaTeX is \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 20:17:21 Ah 20:17:23 Yes 20:17:25 That would be me =P 20:24:59 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:26:34 `quote hug fungot 20:26:34 olsner: people have done a bit of code comes with lol. it's even worse than www.gotahoe.com www.gotahoe.com 20:26:35 505) now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 20:29:11 -!- S1 has joined. 20:29:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:30:45 @messages-loud 20:30:45 elliott said 3h 30m 33s ago: mafingre is always australian. but different ISPs (sometimes mobile broadband, sometimes university, it seems) 20:30:45 elliott said 3h 29m 41s ago: my suggestion is anyone who comes in on webchat with an australian IP and links to pastebin.com, it's almost certainly them. if they evade the question of whether it is 20:30:45 then you can discard any remaining doubts 20:30:45 elliott said 3h 29m 29s ago: also I really wish they'd go away, it's not very fun any more. 20:30:45 elliott said 3h 28m 41s ago: oh and the IPs have geolocated to both Perth and Victoria, seemingly moreso the latter. so there may be proxying going on, or maybe Australian internet is just weird. 20:31:03 now all those messages are in the logs twice :p 20:31:09 crazy 20:31:38 elliott: i think i confused him with hagb4rd and thought he was german-like 20:32:37 i guess that means he was possibly honest about not faking ip's when i talked with him 20:32:37 how about I kick anyone who joins and immediately sends a pastebin link to some crypto puzzle 20:32:41 regardless of IP etc 20:32:50 they can go to ##crypto where it's Not My Problem 20:33:30 kmc: yeah that's the most obvious hint. but when i banned him he had only posted a programming thing (not esoteric) 20:33:38 *re-banned 20:33:41 oh must have been a different incident then 20:33:54 also I only kicked but they thought I banned them 20:33:55 kmc: agreed with an exception for puzzles that are interesting in any way whatsoever 20:33:58 kmc: yes, he was on twice today. 20:34:13 elliott: that would require me to, like, click the link 20:34:20 kmc has a point 20:34:33 «cat *.tex | wc -l» → «5046». 20:35:16 it's not like they'd even have gotten banned if they'd just kept giving stupid puzzles without doing the whole changing nicks and denying it's them thing. it's weird. like, what is the point other than to get banned? 20:35:23 elliott: anyway fizzie's pointing out that he's spamming _many_ channels is better proof, unfortunately i'm not on many channels so am not privy to that information unless people tell me 20:35:50 oerjan: well I've already seen them give a challenge to #haskell. 20:36:05 and then ask whether #esoteric is the right place for it when shachaf said #haskell wasn't. 20:36:09 but i considered my intuition good enough to ban him before fizzie said that. 20:36:32 I suspect they migrated from ##crypto to #esoteric, guessing via the tunes.org logs because #haskell too? 20:36:34 elliott: well i'm not in #haskell. although i guess i do know where the logs are. 20:36:41 oh, they only did it once 20:36:43 yeah it's really hard to understand what they get out of this 20:37:26 anyway i tried to point out to him privately this time that ban evasion is good enough reason for re-banning. 20:37:45 (even if the original ban were unjust for some reason.) 20:38:17 oerjan: I hear they've also ban-evaded in ##crypto, so I wouldn't bother 20:38:43 right, we just had a little chat. 20:38:52 it's kind of weird for an ISP-hopping ban-evading nick-changing person to have a modus operandi as innocuous as just giving random challenges... 20:39:29 elliott: well with the crypto thing maybe he considers himself a H4XOR 20:39:38 and so does it just on principle 20:40:34 maybe like "I have to prove how much smarter/better I am by giving challenges that people can't solve and then showing off my smartness" 20:40:36 and the nick-changing, well, has anyone ever seen him use the same nick twice, i think it's autogenerated everytime he joins or something. 20:41:41 elliott: on the positive side, this time i managed to ban his actual freenode account which was nearly a year old. feels slightly more satisfying than whacking ip's. 20:42:19 Fiora: yeah that happens a fair bit in ##crypto 20:42:24 I watched this "A Capella Science - Bohemian Gravity" video, and thought it was a fun even for a non-physicist. 20:42:41 people come up with shitty cryptosystems then assert them to be unbreakable when nobody bothers to explain in detail why they're bad 20:42:48 (or after arguing with all the explanations given) 20:42:54 oerjan: have they really been identified all this time? 20:43:11 No, they're usually not identified. 20:43:13 oerjan: that seems surprisingly amateur for someone who whipped out an EC2 instance to evade a ban :P 20:43:21 (admittedly in the most transparent way possible) 20:44:31 oerjan: "many" might not deserve an underline, out of my (admittedly small) sampling it was just ##asm and ##c, on the latter of which it was even borderline topical (though ##c-basic would've been a better fit). 20:44:32 elliott: it is possible he just forgot it this time. 20:45:08 oerjan: Maybe he had identified for the purposes of ##c or such, it's +r. 20:45:09 fizzie: well if it was really many he'd get klined and stuff right? 20:45:22 fizzie: ah. 20:45:22 -!- S1 has left. 20:52:10 random Haskell question: why should datatype fields be strict? <-- it prevents space leaks due to large thunks building up. 20:53:14 oerjan: then shouldn't they be always strict by default? all those sudden «!» startle me. 20:53:49 no because Haskell is a lazy language 20:54:04 making stuff strict for performance is something to do carefully, not a panacea where you throw everywhere 20:54:12 throw ! everywhere 20:54:14 of course people do that anyway 20:54:28 so I have to think when coding Haskell? how outrageous! 20:54:32 i know right 20:54:36 the style guide that recommends putting !s on everything is misguided. 20:54:47 especially putting ! on e.g. a list is incredibly pointless 20:54:47 boily: if the structure is only used incrementally, then thunks can be _less_ expensive. 20:54:53 since you only force the outermost cons cell at most 20:54:54 laziness is more efficient sometimes 20:54:59 (assuming it's constructed in a normal way) 20:55:02 e.g. infinite lists would be impossible with strict fields. 20:55:04 it can use asymptotically less space 20:55:07 if stuff uses 20:55:08 fuses* 20:55:09 i think 20:55:18 I leave fields lazy by default except when I have a strong intuition that they should be strict, e.g. the coordinates in a point type 20:55:18 im doing a real good job of typing today 20:55:24 kmc: you don't even need fusing, just gc 20:56:54 `run svn update 20:56:57 bash: svn: command not found 20:56:59 Awww 20:57:17 `run cvs 20:57:18 elliott, why should those be strict 20:57:18 bash: cvs: command not found 20:57:21 Aww^2. 20:57:26 Roujo: HackEgo has hg, although only read accress to its own repository. 20:57:42 Phantom_Hoover: because it doesn't really make sense to force them independently, or the constructor of the pair type separately from them 20:58:00 especially since they're likely some flat (i.e. only ever either unevaluated or fully evaluated) integer type, there's no complex structure to delay 20:58:00 elliott: I didn't grind the Intuition Skill yet. all my XP went to boosting my understanding of monads, and I'm not even done with that yet (Cont is still giving me a headache). 20:58:05 oerjan: I know it has hg, I was just wondering if it also had svn 20:58:07 Apparently not 20:58:08 Anyway 20:58:11 NOT-BUS-TIME 20:58:19 `run ci -V 20:58:19 boily: Cont is the only one you need to understand! 20:58:20 RCS version 5.7 20:58:22 Well, Codensity. 20:58:26 At least it's got RCS. 20:58:36 newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall b. (a -> m b) -> m b } 20:58:39 shachaf: that's the problem. I understand the rest, but that one warps my brain. 20:58:49 Roujo: i _suppose_ you could make another repository inside HackEgo. recursion! 20:59:01 oerjan: SURE 20:59:06 `run mkdir hg 20:59:07 No output. 20:59:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:59:11 Roujo: de quossé que are you not bussing lately? like, hovercraft? 20:59:30 boily: Weird schedule. Full of eels. So yeah. 20:59:57 -!- john_metcalf has left. 21:01:04 -!- conehead has joined. 21:01:31 boily: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/12/mother-of-all-monads.html 21:02:41 that'll explain what shachaf said, and possibly give you a hint about Cont as well. 21:02:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:03:24 Note that when he said Cont he really meant Codensity. 21:03:26 -!- augur has joined. 21:06:31 oerjan: I read that post multiple times. didn't work. I think I have a problem with «<-», as used in the Cont context. 21:06:41 shachaf: codensity shmensity. 21:06:44 ouch 21:07:34 -!- S1 has joined. 21:07:43 newtype Codensity m a = Codensity { runCodensity :: forall b. (a -> m b) -> m b } 21:07:46 (>>=) :: forall m. Monad m => m a -> forall b. (a -> m b) -> m b 21:08:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:08:13 I forgot "a" there. 21:08:17 That's also forall. 21:08:41 isn't codensity exactly like plain old monad? 21:09:08 tee-tee-ouaille-elle, #esoteric 21:09:09 Well, uh, it's, uh, hm? 21:09:19 One of them is a type class and one is a type. 21:09:46 Roujo: à à plus! 21:11:58 Roujo: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÀ 21:12:39 also, shouldn't it be ti-ti- or something 21:13:30 shachaf: i say just use reflection to convert 21:13:53 the Bilingual Spelled ティ ティ Why Elle strikes again. 21:14:14 does fungot speak japanese? 21:14:15 olsner: is it a draw with fnord to browse through some code that returned a procedure 21:14:59 fungot: 日本語は知っている? 21:14:59 boily: nor is it for learning or for production? 21:16:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:18:13 boily: Did you go through the usual exercises like writing out the Cont monad instance and stepping through some simple Cont code by hand? 21:19:20 -!- S1 has left. 21:20:26 shachaf: uhm. eeeeeh... >_>... partially? 21:20:42 imo do it 21:20:55 I know I should. 21:21:21 @djinn ((((a -> r) -> r) -> r) -> r) -> (a -> r) -> r 21:21:21 f a b = a (\ c -> c b) 21:21:22 easy 21:21:30 (Don't use djinn.) 21:21:47 why not 21:22:25 Well, you might as well just use the library in that case. 21:23:02 I think there's value to stepping through it yourself when you don't have intuition for it. 21:23:28 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:23:57 i heard that cool people implement Cont via the adjunction (-> r) -| (-> r) 21:24:51 * boily wildly flails around. “ADJUNCTIONS!” 21:24:59 the other thing that bugs me. 21:25:30 well. the second thing that leaves me in utter confusion. the third being lenses. 21:25:47 Lenses are easy. 21:25:59 You can join #haskell-lens and I can talk about it later if you want. 21:26:36 my day is done, and I'm going to watch an English-subtitled Mandarin movie tonight. the lenses are punted to tomorrow for me. 21:26:45 :t ret 21:26:46 a -> (a -> r) -> r 21:26:56 -!- elliott_ has joined. 21:26:59 That's the hardest part of Cont. 21:27:09 You get the rest for free*! 21:27:22 I see what you mathematically did there. 21:27:23 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:27:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: I like my brain like I like my jellies.). 21:27:59 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:24 "in serge lang’s complex analysis book, one of the exercises is to prove the non-trivial zeros of the zeta function have real part 1/2" good book 21:28:42 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 21:30:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:31:57 always throw that in in case some student finds a simple proof everyone has missed. 21:32:54 @undefine 21:32:54 Undefined. 21:33:04 @let type Cont' r a = (a -> r) -> r 21:33:05 Defined. 21:33:26 @let return' :: a -> Cont' r a; return' x = ($ x) 21:33:27 Defined. 21:33:48 @let fmap' :: (a -> b) -> Cont' r a -> Cont' r b; fmap' f = (. (. f)) 21:33:48 Defined. 21:34:06 @let join' :: Cont' r (Cont' r a) -> Cont' r a; join' = (. return') 21:34:07 Defined. 21:34:59 "Come up with a theory that unifies general relativity and quantum mechanics. Devise and perform experiments to prove it. (Hint: you may have to invent new mathematics to do this)" 21:36:51 TAOCP, which ranks exercises from 0 to 50, famously had Fermat's Last as one exercise ranked to 50, and then later a post-Wiles edition downgraded the ranking. 21:37:04 haha 21:37:36 funny, i just mentioned a [50] problem that got answered (elsewhere) 21:39:05 wonder how many of those specifically have been solved 21:39:43 I think Fermat went from [M50] to [HM45]. 21:40:14 Possibly the lack of a H was because you never know, it might turn out there's a simple proof. 21:43:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:44:34 `olist (919) 21:44:36 olist (919): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 21:44:54 ooh 21:45:34 `run ln -s olist bin/oohlist 21:45:38 No output. 21:45:38 -!- Bike has joined. 21:58:41 `? roujo 21:58:43 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. 21:59:16 `run sed -i 's/$/ He does not understand shell quoting./' wisdom/roujo 21:59:20 No output. 21:59:24 `? roujo 21:59:26 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. He does not understand shell quoting. 22:00:14 -!- augur has joined. 22:00:36 * oerjan doesn't understand it either, but not quite so blatantly. 22:01:15 no one likes join = (. return) :'( 22:01:53 that's not the usual definition, shachaf. 22:02:04 :t flip fmap return 22:02:04 Monad m => (m a -> b) -> a -> b 22:02:17 nope, not even then. 22:03:56 `? koen 22:03:57 koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:03:58 | 22:03:58 o/`¯º 22:03:59 `? koen_ 22:04:00 koen_? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:04:01 | 22:04:01 o/`¯º 22:05:19 oerjan: Well, for Cont, of course. 22:06:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:07:08 :t (. return) 22:07:09 Monad m => (m a -> c) -> a -> c 22:07:26 And newtype noise makes it not work. 22:07:41 just use coerce 22:07:48 But the point is eta = eps = \x -> ($ x) 22:09:13 :t join :: Cont r (Cont r a) -> Cont r a 22:09:14 Cont r (Cont r a) -> Cont r a 22:09:32 :k Cont' 22:09:33 Type synonym Cont' should have 2 arguments, but has been given none 22:09:33 In a type in a GHCi command: Cont' 22:09:50 sheesh that is not helpful ghc 22:10:25 :t (. return) :: Cont' r (Cont' r a) -> Cont' r a 22:10:26 Couldn't match type `r' with `a -> r' 22:10:26 `r' is a rigid type variable bound by 22:10:26 an expression type signature: Cont' r (Cont' r a) -> Cont' r a 22:10:42 shachaf: DUBIOUS 22:11:31 -!- Bike has joined. 22:11:43 oerjan: return' 22:11:46 :t return' 22:11:47 a -> Cont' r a 22:12:15 oh i thought that was just -> stuff 22:12:23 :t (. return') :: Cont' r (Cont' r a) -> Cont' r a 22:12:24 Cont' r (Cont' r a) -> Cont' r a 22:12:29 OKAY 22:13:05 `? latex 22:13:06 @let halfmap :: (a -> b) -> (b -> r) -> (a -> r); halfmap = flip (.) 22:13:07 Defined. 22:13:07 LaTeX is \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 22:13:15 join' = halfmap return' 22:13:57 `run sed -i 's/\\/\\end{verbatim} \\/' wisdom/latex 22:14:01 No output. 22:14:04 `? latex 22:14:06 LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 22:14:35 * oerjan whistles innocently 22:14:42 lol. 22:14:47 is that a quine 22:15:09 kmc: i sincerely hope not^Wso 22:15:56 presumably the point of this entry is basically to fuck with boily 22:17:01 how'd you guess 22:17:38 mention of backslashes 22:21:15 -!- jix has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:31:09 it just looks quiney 22:31:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:32:04 douglass found a LaTeX document that requires pdflatex to run four times to produce correct output 22:32:07 not supposed to be possible 22:34:09 Bike: I can confirm that the point of `? LaTeX is to fuck with boily =P 22:37:25 kmc: what, is pdflatex supposed to be better than standard tex on converging? 22:41:57 no, but I thought all the types of tex were supposed to converge after three runs 22:42:00 maybe I was misinformed! 22:42:47 maybe i just didn't hear about it, i thought you could have loops and stuff 22:44:20 like, if things keep shuffling back and forth over page boundaries as cross references adapt to the previous version 22:45:23 it feels somewhat plausible that this could be made PSPACE-complete 22:45:38 *shown 22:57:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:01:07 -!- iconmaster has joined. 23:04:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:14:55 -!- elliott_ has joined. 23:15:27 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:16:31 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 23:19:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:31 `slist 23:22:33 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:29:53 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:30:01 -!- ineiros has joined. 23:48:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:49:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:51:20 -!- augur has joined. 23:55:18 `oohlist (919) 23:55:20 oohlist (919): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 23:55:43 Maybe I should have zero-width-space'd that 23:58:49 Maybe 23:58:52 Who knows 23:59:02 `unicode ZERO-WIDTH SPACE 23:59:04 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ZERO-WIDTH SPACE'" 23:59:06 Aww 23:59:09 `unicode ZERO WIDTH SPACE 23:59:10 ​​ 23:59:13 There we go 2013-09-18: 00:06:52 -!- Bike has joined. 00:35:00 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:35:26 -!- olsner has joined. 00:42:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:47:32 -!- mad has joined. 00:47:34 sup 00:47:41 trying to solve a hard problem 00:48:05 I think my senses are out of sync when it comes to food 00:48:10 hard problems are fun 00:48:23 Steak smells great but tastes boring. Mac and cheese looks gross but tastes great 00:48:43 designing some sprite display hardware that can display lots of sprites with minimal registers and without having to load sprite data, write sprite data and then load data a 3rd time when the screen displays it 00:49:22 Doesn't Kraft artifically color their cheese? Couldn't they color it something not gross? 00:49:52 Sgeo: how are you cooking your steak 00:50:31 anyway I think you should eat steak w/ mac and cheese 00:51:03 i don't like kraft cheese.... i've had "home made" baked cheesy mac though and it's good 00:51:15 Most of my steak related memories are from over a decade ago 00:51:37 My mom cooked steak well-done, I think. I keep getting told that that's bad with steak 00:51:38 mnoqy: yeah that stuff is great... with breadcrumbs on top? 00:51:44 yeah 00:51:46 yeah, that'll cook all the flavor right out 00:51:52 can i get a quick opinion on webdav 00:52:06 I recommend medium rare with salt, pepper, garlic, herbs maybe (rosemary? dunno) 00:52:11 you can put on steak sauce too 00:52:14 gotcha 00:52:23 Bike: that should solve your webdav problems 00:52:32 you could go through every sprite on every pixel 00:52:32 I think I've had steak more recently, at Dave & Busters. The steak sause seemed to add all the flavoring 00:52:41 and then you'd have 0 overdraw 00:53:03 but then you'd totally bust your memory loading up sprite settings 00:54:42 you could store all your sprites as a bunch of line spans 00:54:55 and then write those spans to line span lists 00:55:07 then sort the list for each line 00:55:08 Sgeo: if you want to get sciency, cook it sous vide 00:55:20 then you can get it precisely medium rare with no cooking skill required 00:55:27 also you save all of the juices and you can put them on potatoes 00:55:31 and then you'd have a perfect list telling you when the current graphic object switches for each line 00:55:48 Can I get a restaurant to do it for me? 00:55:54 but then the problem is that you have to do 240 sorts of about 20 items 00:55:58 yeah but they're also probably good at cooking steaks the normal way 00:56:00 since it's their job 00:56:32 and it would probably be fast enough on a 32bit processor (actually some 3d renderes use that algo) but it would totally bust an 8bit one 00:56:53 Is there still a risk of undercooking with sous vide? 00:57:09 well if things go wrong yeah 00:57:18 there's a risk of undercooking with any cooking technique if you don't do it right 00:57:22 kind of axiomatically 00:57:36 you could loop through every sprite on every scanline and draw every sprite front to back and have a mask buffer 00:57:49 burn it to a crisp. once it's a crisp you're probably safe. 00:58:05 and then you'd have more or less zero overdraw if you keep your transparency mask separate in 1bpp format 00:58:09 the main things with sous vide would be make sure the water reaches the target temp, make sure the meat stays in long enough for all of it to reach the target temp, and make sure the bag is sufficiently empty of air that heat is conducted from the water 00:58:23 it doesn't need to be a perfect vacuum seal though, I just use a ziploc bag and push the air out 00:58:28 err 00:58:29 "Clostridium botulinum bacteria can grow in food in the absence of oxygen and produce the deadly botulinum toxin, so sous-vide cooking must be performed under carefully controlled conditions to avoid botulism poisoning." 00:58:35 yeah 00:58:51 I think I'm scared 00:58:55 but then you need a buffer for the whole scanline... they had enough chip area for this in the 16bit era (tg16, genesis, snes, jaguar, lots of arcade hardware) but not in the 8bit era 00:59:03 clostridium is the best genus 00:59:18 botulism, tetanus, c. dificile, gas gangrene, and salt-rising bread 00:59:30 I need a meat thermometer 00:59:43 meat thermometers are nice to have. 00:59:46 Preferably one that works with ready-to-eat meals 01:00:02 Because I had one but it was too long for the little meat thingies in those 01:00:06 why would a ready to eat need cooking for safety? 01:00:07 Well, not ready-to-eat 01:00:21 The microwavable things that say you need to check temperature for safety 01:00:28 they say that cause they don't want to get sued 01:00:44 if you don't have a compromised immune system then I wouldn't worry too much about this stuff 01:01:15 that said I do seem to mind gastrointestinal upset less than most people 01:01:28 I don't think implementing hardware sorting on 8bit hardware is very realistic either :/ 01:01:38 I used 8bit hardware in my sous vide setup! 01:05:01 well that killed both topics 01:05:17 yes 01:07:00 kinda hard to do much better than the nes on 8bit hardware 01:07:08 except I guess the master system 01:07:32 fuck yeah master system 01:07:37 fuck yeah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snail_Maze 01:08:38 "Macromedia Flash" 01:08:40 Wow that's old 01:08:47 Also broken link :( 01:08:51 it wasn't very popular here (Canada) 01:09:27 it was very popular in my parents basement 01:09:33 mainly cause I bought one from a kid at school for $5 01:09:36 long after it was obsolete 01:09:41 :D 01:09:57 like the consoles I owned were a Sega Master System and then a PS2 01:11:23 * mad looks up SMS docs to try to guess if it had a scanline buffer 01:13:50 I never owned any consoles 01:13:54 :/ 01:16:15 had a snes 01:16:50 still kindof amazing how much stuff they got out of that trash... goes to show that gfx and sfx hardware are the most important things 01:17:17 since those are pretty much the only things that were good on the snes 01:23:00 yeah ok SMS only supports 8 sprites per scanline 01:23:11 though they can be 16x16 I think 01:23:15 and 64 sprites total 01:23:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:27:12 -!- CADD has joined. 01:29:55 -!- Bike has joined. 01:33:29 so it's probably NES style hardware 01:33:49 where it has 8 hardware sprite circuits 01:33:57 which it loads during HBLANK 01:34:17 then waits the right pixel and starts outputting 01:36:27 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:38:14 woa 01:38:21 the sprite table is in VRAM 01:38:31 every scanline it reads up the whole table 01:38:43 very nice. 01:38:43 well, the wholy y position table 01:38:53 64 sprites = 64 bytes 01:39:55 For comparison, the background tiles take 64bytes, and the background tile data takes 128bytes 01:41:11 and sprite data takes 64 bytes 01:45:52 Is there something in the 'cheese' of Kraft's Mac and Cheese that stimulates hunger? 01:46:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:48:48 salt 01:52:49 hm, I was wrong 01:52:59 you only get 8x16 sprites 01:53:45 -!- Bike has joined. 02:06:32 `slist 02:06:34 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:14:50 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 02:19:52 service unavailable, nice 02:37:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:39:29 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 02:39:43 -!- Bike has joined. 02:43:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:48:05 Sgeo: I just cooked a steak with lots of salt, black pepper, rosemary, and sage, and it's delicious even though I accidentally made it medium if not medium-well 02:48:42 Is it just the salt+black pepper+rosemary+sage that's delicious though, or does the steak contribute? 02:49:07 steak contributes 02:49:14 have you considered just putting the spices on a block of plastic and eating that, kmc 02:49:16 salt is a flavor enhancer more than a flavor in itself 02:49:27 it makes other flavors stronger 02:49:36 plastic steak. 02:53:08 kmc: spices are amazing aren't they 02:53:13 I love just throwing more spices into things to make them better 02:53:24 like taking canned soup and tossing in chili oil and rosemary and things 02:54:25 oh yes 02:54:29 chili oil is a great thing to have around 02:54:38 we have a live rosemary plant and a live sage plant on the porch :) 02:54:45 I feel bad ripping off parts of their bodies but it's worth it 02:55:07 kmc: plants dont have nerves :) 02:55:19 indeed 02:56:47 my current favorite meal: wisk two eggs with a 1/2 cup milk. cube cheese, add to eggs, add cilantro, green onion, dijon mustard, and mushrooms. cut up bacon into pieces, fry in butter, add egg mixture to butter and bacon. cook and serve 02:56:52 sooooooo good 02:56:59 hell yes that sounds great 02:57:00 kind of want kmc to just have an EEG hooked up to his plants all the time 02:57:15 omg, ive been pretty much living off of it for the last couple of weeks 02:57:18 and its soo good and cheap 02:58:20 what kind of mushrooms 02:58:47 kmc: crimini or portobello 02:58:54 ah 02:59:02 if i dont have those, then white button works too :) 02:59:13 all of those are the same species :) 02:59:17 mushrooms are great 02:59:21 really 02:59:22 ? 02:59:23 yeah 02:59:26 Agaricus bisporus 02:59:32 huh, learn something new every day :) 02:59:46 ever go on the micology subreddit? 02:59:53 different morphs or what? 03:00:01 portabello is the most mature form; the veil has broken and the gills are visible 03:00:12 ah life cycles. the silent confuser 03:00:18 hehe 03:00:19 kmc: yeah, chili oil is just like. 03:00:20 button mushrooms are an immature form where the edge of the cap is still attached to the stem by the veil 03:00:21 I can literally put it in anything 03:00:23 it's basically magic 03:00:26 but you can still see the gills when you cut them open 03:00:37 pasta? chili oil. soup? chili oil. stew? chili oil. sauce? chili oil 03:00:45 chili? chili oil 03:00:48 Fiora: sounds good 03:00:49 lol! 03:01:01 I might like spiciness 03:01:42 i might like eating unborn babies.. 03:01:54 what 03:02:02 well actually more like ovary discharges.. 03:02:04 CADD: if you want to branch out mycologically speaking, you could use oyster mushrooms or shitake 03:02:05 elliott: eggs 03:02:05 ??? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??????balut 03:02:08 oysters are also the easiest to grow yourself 03:02:11 elliott: see my comment above :) 03:02:22 shiitake <3 03:02:33 shiitake is not too hard to grow either 03:02:37 shiitake are soooo tasty 03:02:51 kmc: ooo. that sounds good. we actually had a shiitake block growing in our kitchen for a while :) 03:02:54 nice 03:03:01 kmc: yeah, it was amazing 03:03:04 CADD: I haven't been on the mycology subreddit 03:03:22 my friend is more into mushrooms than me 03:03:25 kmc: yeah, its great. and if you are into that kind of thing there is also /r/shroomers 03:03:32 she's on the forums and stuff, I just help out here and there 03:03:37 :) 03:03:42 cool 03:03:55 we live in norcal so we can just find psychedelic mushrooms growing outside :) 03:04:10 there was a new species described from a specimen in Golden Gate Park a few years back :) 03:04:15 omg, lucky! i live in socal. its pretty barren 03:04:20 kmc: oh yeah, i think i heard about that 03:04:46 what are you doing in socal 03:04:59 ive hearf norcal has very nice climate. the only place ive been around in norcal is in SF. 03:05:04 uh, i was born here. lol 03:05:10 that's a reasonable excuse 03:05:21 ill probably move up to SF or silicon valley if i get a job up there 03:05:29 that's the thing to do 03:05:32 which is kinda the plan :) 03:05:33 ikr? 03:05:59 the #esoteric center of gravity is shifting towards there 03:06:11 where was it before? 03:06:17 hexham 03:06:21 im guessing you guys meet up once in a while? 03:06:21 atlantic ocean 03:06:26 yeah 03:06:27 lol 03:06:33 nice, must be great 03:12:12 -!- monotone_ has joined. 03:13:11 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 03:13:33 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 03:13:53 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 03:13:53 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 03:13:53 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 03:13:53 -!- monotone has quit (*.net *.split). 03:13:54 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 03:13:54 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 03:13:54 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 03:15:03 -!- variable has joined. 03:18:49 -!- Fiora_ has changed nick to 17SADELZ0. 03:19:33 -!- 17SADELZ0 has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:20:11 -!- Fiora has joined. 03:26:52 -!- aloril has joined. 03:46:34 I seem to be switching to foobar2000 03:50:20 cool 03:55:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 03:55:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 04:01:59 Wonder if I can make foobar2000 look like WinAmp 04:07:31 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:07:46 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:08:05 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:12:43 "(Any Borg in Voyager doesn't count, and fortunately there was never any fifth Trek series... extrapolating from the downward trend in Voyager, any fifth series would have been abominably bad.)" 04:13:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8 04:17:23 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:31:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xHK0m5hVyY 04:52:55 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:01:35 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:02:33 -!- audioPhil_ has quit (Changing host). 05:02:34 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:14 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:23:20 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:32:56 -!- carado has joined. 05:54:50 kmc: do you ever find yourself checking the ips of people to see if they happen to be in australia 05:57:27 Good things about Australia: the beer. Bad things about Australia: Hitler. 06:03:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:16:19 `quote apply pressure 06:16:23 1018) ◊_______________________◊ help. jesus christ elliott apply pressure evenly when jamming eyes open 06:18:05 shachaf: I'm not sure but this might help your keeping-eyes-open problem 06:18:57 (hth) 06:35:45 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:37:59 -!- mad has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:44:26 @tell boily it would be nice if the quotes in the pdf had line breaks between peoples' lines 06:44:26 Consider it noted. 07:30:58 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:33:53 voyager was good 08:33:56 deep space 9 was shit 08:34:06 ;__; 08:43:32 "ICS Forum talk: Bounding rationality by computational complexity, Prof. Lance Fortnow" 08:43:36 These are always so fancy. 08:43:56 "This talk will explore a new direction bringing the rich tools of computational complexity into economic models, --" 09:08:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:32:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:42:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:43:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:50:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:53:33 `ord > ​​ 09:53:37 62 32 8203 8203 09:54:24 i guess that was to be expected. 09:54:37 ^ord > ​​ 09:54:37 62 32 226 128 139 226 128 139 09:55:35 > chr <$> [226,128,139] 09:55:37 "\226\128\139" 09:55:51 > var $ chr <$> [226,128,139] 09:55:52 â 09:55:59 oh 128 09:56:05 `ordu > ​ 09:56:07 U+3e U+20 U+200b 09:56:21 fancy 09:56:42 actually i'm wondering how one would make irssi produce a zero-width space. 09:57:16 hm... 09:57:34 I would think that it's a character that'd self-insert if you can just figure out how to type it. 09:57:48 yes, i just realized that. 09:58:22 but i have no idea how to type it without copying and pasting, and i don't know how to avoid having a character before it 09:59:03 Many systems have a Unicode hex input feature, but that depends. 09:59:12 hm maybe the delete key will do it from the beginning 10:00:10 i'm afraid getting it through putty and irssi will be hard, alt- is reserved for changing windows. 10:00:27 i'm not even sure if that's what windows uses. 10:01:15 There's a thing for alt-(numpad + followed by hex) feature, but you need to enable a registry key for it. :p 10:01:26 oh. 10:01:53 `ord ​ 10:01:54 That's "numpad '+'" in case it wasn't clear. 10:01:55 8203 10:02:11 That seems to be correct. 10:02:17 fizzie: ooh, alt-numpad + decimal worked 10:02:31 um wait 10:02:47 what actually did was alt 10:02:51 *+i 10:03:10 Right. The prefix is for the "it's hex instead" thing. 10:03:32 EXCELLENT 10:06:49 rxvt-unicode lets you enter hex when holding ctrl+shift, and also has a funky infobox at the bottom-left corner showing what you have entered so far, what it looks like, and which font it's coming from. 10:07:25 good, good 10:07:53 (You can also poke existing characters on screen with your mouse when holding ctrl-shift and see what they're made of.) 10:09:19 The nasty thing about it is that if you press ctrl-shift and then release it without doing nothing, it goes in "keycap picture insert mode" which is supposed to insert whatever symbol is on the key, which I sometimes accidentally use to insert spurious ␣'s (what comes out of space) or whatnot. 10:09:29 ␣↵⌦⎀⇱⇲⇟⇞ 10:09:32 Very useful. 10:09:50 (That was space-enter-del-insert-home-end-pageup-pagedown.) 10:10:45 itym square-square-square-square-square-square-square-square 10:11:00 aah, that's the thing that I accidentally trigger all the time without knowing what keys I pressed 10:11:22 that does sound nasty 10:11:29 olsner: It's somewhat easy to accidentally add left-shift when poking at left-control. 10:11:36 -!- CADD has joined. 10:11:54 And there's no obvious way of getting out of it without inserting any character, because just about any key will insert *something*. 10:12:04 moreover, there are combinations i actually use, like ctrl-shift-t 10:12:29 fizzie: press ctrl-shift again? 10:12:39 olsner: That inserts "⇧" here. 10:12:43 so if i change my mind in the middle of it... but then i don't have that feature. 10:14:08 Non-special keys like letters do cancel out of keycap picture insert mode, but cause a visual bell (flash). 10:14:59 letters don't seem to flash/bell for me ... but maybe I've disabled visual bell too 10:15:22 send in bug report about it, describing the use case of having to avoid attracting velociraptors. 10:15:25 Also the "ISO 14755 mode" infobox does pop out during the regular application of shortcuts like that ctrl-shift-t, which can be irritating. 10:15:35 why did that a disappear. 10:16:31 oerjan: All this talk about special characters has gotten the attention of the character-eating sprites that lurk in dark corners of the internet. 10:16:42 figures. 10:38:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:41:59 kmc: plants dont have nerves :) <-- THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK 10:52:19 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:53:48 -!- augur has joined. 11:09:46 -!- yorick has joined. 11:13:23 Good things about Australia: the beer. Bad things about Australia: Hitler. 11:13:56 cloudy, with a chance of trolling. 11:14:26 mind you, the beer part might be true for all i know. 11:14:46 (i've heard foster's is not drunk by real australians though.) 11:16:41 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fosters is unusually helpful. 11:17:23 maybe aussies hating foster'?s has become a meme itself. 11:18:12 kmc: do you ever find yourself checking the ips of people to see if they happen to be in australia <-- it's the right time now, i think, but no australians to be heard! 11:18:35 maybe mafingre is a collective aussie joke and they're all in on it. 11:21:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:21:42 `run allquotes | grep '[)].*[^] :] <' | paste 11:21:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20478 11:23:19 `run quote 191 # wtf is with this 11:23:21 191) LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary. LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary. 11:23:26 @messages? 11:23:26 Sorry, no messages today. 11:23:53 oerjan: I think it's a comment on the relative bandwidths of text and video 11:24:05 i mean, the nick spellings. 11:24:12 oh right 11:24:18 probably some sort of nickchange chain 11:24:27 let's assume so. 11:25:08 `run sed -i '191 s/ No output. 11:25:19 oh hum 11:25:28 `run quote 191 11:25:29 191) LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary. LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary. 11:28:32 hey, everyone 11:28:48 g'day 11:28:52 a) I updated the aimake docs; b) I found a less buggy Pod→HTML converter to do the conversion with 11:30:04 * oerjan notes the absense of level 3 11:30:25 yeah, I noticed it wasn't there too 11:30:36 it does the same thing as 2, I think 11:33:58 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:35:22 * oerjan sees double 11:35:34 this connection is unreliable 11:35:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:36:54 also, wow Ubuntu are bad at signing their packages correctly 11:37:12 I had to try three different servers just now to find one where the packages had a correct signature 11:41:54 `run sed -i '881s/ No output. 11:42:02 `quote 881 11:42:04 881) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 11:42:27 `run sed -i '887s/ No output. 11:42:56 `run sed -i '976s/ No output. 11:43:51 `run quote 887; quote 976 11:43:53 887) GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D \ 976) error: cuttlefish not synced to vblank maybe it's a power phase issue it's like, a european cuttlefish but it' 11:44:16 qdb format restored! 11:44:41 well, what that regex found, anyway. 11:47:55 also, I found part of that mystifying C-INTERCAL problem 11:48:05 it was a makefile problem; the tests didn't depend on the compiler, and produced executables 11:48:15 thus it could reuse executables produced by an old version of the compiler 11:48:25 this isn't enough to explain why the program didn't work, but is enough to explain the inconsistency 11:49:35 good, good 11:50:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:51:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:59:19 -!- scarf has joined. 11:59:27 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:59:41 heh, it seems that this client cycles through alternate nicks 12:01:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:08:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:09:01 -!- Bike has joined. 12:11:48 -!- scarf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:31:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:59:34 -!- boily has joined. 12:59:40 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:01:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:07:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:12:32 -!- Bike has joined. 13:16:13 good was-koen-enwisdomed morning! 13:17:12 `? koen 13:17:14 olsner: you mean, in a quote where there are multiple locutors, to have each of them starting a new line? 13:17:15 koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:17:15 | 13:17:15 o/`¯º 13:17:21 `? koen_ 13:17:22 koen_? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:17:23 | 13:17:23 o/`¯º 13:17:56 oerjan: 'tis sad. 13:18:16 `learn Koen lives in the top of the Eiffel Tower. 13:18:21 I knew that. 13:18:29 `run ln -s koen wisdom/koen_ 13:18:33 No output. 13:20:01 i believe this information is completely according to the accuracy standards set by the the question. 13:21:00 `learn Koen vit au haut de la Tour Eiffel (coordonnées approximatives). 13:21:05 I knew that. 13:21:35 i suppose i should have expected that. 13:21:49 he he he :D 13:28:39 `? arc_koen 13:28:41 arc_koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:28:41 | 13:28:41 º¯`\o 13:30:31 `? pikhq 13:30:32 pikhq? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:30:32 | 13:30:32 º¯`\o 13:37:02 pikhq: you have quotes. I'm not ♪ding♪ing you, as you are unknown, and my mom always told me to «jamais faire ♪ding♪ à des étrangers». 13:37:50 did your mom sometimes say comprehensible things, too? 13:41:33 i maybe should clarify/make it worse by pointing out i wasn't referring to the french. 13:41:55 although, there does seem to be an approaching french singularity around here. 13:43:50 she also repeated the classics, like «mange tes légumes!». 13:44:09 ah. 13:44:24 but it seems the incomprehension comes from this generation. my bro and I are the same, but as he pointed out, «moi plus que lui». 13:46:22 vegetables are good, except when prepared according to the traditional Québec fashion. 13:47:46 at least the québécois _have_ traditional vegetables. 13:48:20 cabbage. potatoes. carrots. turnips. and then you boil the fungot out of them, just to be sure there are no nutrients left. 13:48:20 boily: if it has to map ( require foo) to the grovel specification contains more information than simply the car the cdr. though there's no time wasted copying it anywhere 13:49:07 ...so let me get this straight, quebéc split _before_ french cuisine evolved? 13:49:24 i'm so sorry. 13:49:58 *-´+´ 13:50:26 ↑ I'm sure it's a Haskell library operator somewhere. 13:50:58 actually no, ' is an alphanumeric character. 13:51:02 or wait 13:51:10 hm... 13:51:32 > let (*-´+´) = "test" in (*-´+´) 13:51:33 "test" 13:51:37 OKAY 13:51:59 `ord ´ 13:52:01 180 13:52:14 ~eval ord '´' 13:52:16 Error (1): 13:52:18 ~eval ord '´' 13:52:19 180 13:53:30 http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sd601/papers/mov.pdf 13:53:50 hellortti. 14:02:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:05:39 helloboily. 14:18:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:20:13 -!- Bike has joined. 14:29:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:35:44 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:39:44 alloily ^^ 14:42:24 bonroujour! 14:45:13 Nice, nice 14:57:02 ~duck kornbluth 14:57:03 --- No relevant information 15:02:44 https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20130917-a-jewel-at-the-heart-of-quantum-physics/ ok 15:03:06 "amplituhedron" 15:03:08 Nice 15:04:09 “...challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality”. uhm. if not space and time, then what? 15:04:14 Cookies 15:04:44 "You can easily do [...] even with a computer" 15:05:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:06:24 kmc: https://twitter.com/MitchFraas/status/380311280499703808/photo/1 15:07:17 yay, probabilities that may not forcibly add up to 1... 15:07:33 damned physicists and their unrealistic view of the Universe! 15:08:48 "Reality is unrealistic" 15:10:18 also they got a comment from andrew hodges somehow, wondering what's going on there 15:11:03 http://motls.blogspot.com/2013/09/amplituhedron-wonderful-pr-on-new.html?m=1 some more info 15:17:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:27:20 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:29:03 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 15:32:54 -!- myname has joined. 15:39:44 Hi 15:41:08 hi 15:41:28 ail. 15:45:19 Heya AnotherTest 15:58:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:02:05 -!- jix has joined. 16:09:53 -!- augur has joined. 16:21:24 -!- conehead has joined. 16:32:25 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:44:03 '"Starbucks is not a policy maker. We're not pro- or anti-gun," but believes that guns "should not be part of the Starbucks experience."' 16:44:54 mocha latte with tracer 16:45:00 Pun involving "shot"s of coffee. 16:45:34 Counter-pun involving, well, counters 16:59:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:27:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:32:28 Guys, these puns have all bean done before 17:32:36 You look like complete mugs 17:34:13 `run hahaha 17:34:15 bash: hahaha: command not found 17:34:19 Welp 17:34:32 I have good memories of the Day of the Fish Puns. but the bar is too high with coffee puns... 17:34:40 (bar is too... barista... geddit?) 17:35:03 * boily hides in shame in a corner 17:35:58 boily, you're making a mocca-ry of the whole concept 17:38:17 Taneb: sorry, I couldn't lat-the thread die on the grounds that you're complaining. 17:39:09 You should really filter out all of the puns that aren't that great 17:40:00 stop roasting me over petty details. you know I speak French, so punninglishing is quite hard. 17:40:45 i coffea more of these pun sessions 17:41:25 Something something black 17:41:49 we had the Fish, we're having the Coffee, did we have other Infamous Sessions? 17:42:10 Roujo: you're not milking the idea enough. 17:42:21 peel sessions 17:42:37 Like the metro station? 17:43:21 Bike: peel? 17:44:25 Roujo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/IMG_0678.JPG 17:45:25 These puns are getting weaker.. 17:45:28 I'll be black 17:45:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:47:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Sessions 17:48:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:49:17 -!- S1 has joined. 17:49:57 boily, there was the soviet one 17:51:43 I read the whole chatlog of 2013-08-27 at work today. The most flabbergasting thing was you not recognizing FALSE... I mean duh... 17:52:05 it's an old language. 17:52:12 Pretty awesome all in all. 17:52:19 S1: you didn't see nothing. that log is an illusion to mislead the CIA. 17:52:39 If you say so 17:53:02 what the heck happened on the 27th, that was like, years ago 17:53:06 So is the wisdom? -_- 17:53:13 hat? 17:53:21 w* 17:54:10 S1: ah no. the wisdom exists. it's a work in progress, so there are some corners still unaligned with reality, but otherwise it's fine. 17:54:27 I will read it tomorrow. 17:54:30 at work 17:54:32 tomorrow 17:54:43 you really don't have to. 17:55:03 let's see, we were talking about... political compass? 17:55:18 I know I've seen it all 17:55:20 the satanic runes guy 17:55:26 well, i don't know, i'm looking it up 17:55:36 oh, you mean the runes was false, huh. 17:56:13 I guess I correctly identified it as stack-based? 17:56:28 I'm pretty sure that was: 3 3 3 3***1_+,10 3 3**7+,100 16 2_++,3__3__3_3_***19+16+,4_4_*2*,10$*1+10$*4$*1_++10$*1+$$3+$5-10_10_*23+10_6_*2_+7$*,,,,,,,,, 17:56:46 False 17:57:17 i've never seen any false code before. there's no on the wiki. 17:57:28 really!? 17:57:35 there is no wiki. 17:57:37 i don't see any. 17:57:44 But yeah, it does look like it matcches the command set there. 17:58:28 Well I haven't programmed false in years but after all I remember this does look like false indeed 17:58:41 Yes, it seems to be false. 17:58:45 ^interps 17:58:55 ss, how do all these damn bots work. 17:58:57 !interps 17:59:01 ^prefixes 17:59:01 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot ! 17:59:06 !help 17:59:07 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 17:59:12 !help languages 17:59:12 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 17:59:22 dag, no false. 17:59:46 `? false 17:59:48 false? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:59:48 | 17:59:48 º¯`\o 18:00:56 `learn false is a very old stack-based language. 18:01:01 I knew that. 18:01:15 Is this definition even valid? 18:01:24 after all WE know 18:02:07 what, the definition of false? 18:02:50 !true 18:02:55 Isn't that enough for you guys? 18:03:02 `learn false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. 18:03:07 I knew that. 18:03:29 `learn false is just !true. Deal with it. 18:03:30 Can we add "It's not true"? 18:03:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: learn: not found 18:03:50 `? false 18:03:52 false is a very old stack-based language. For an authentic experience, run it on an Amiga. 18:03:56 HA! 18:04:59 * boily whistles innocently ♪ “I didn't do nothing, la la la!” 18:05:36 >_> 18:05:47 `learn HackEgo is evil. 18:05:49 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: learn: not found 18:06:40 obviously you're right 18:07:04 `complain `learn is broken 18:07:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: complain: not found 18:07:23 `help 18:07:23 `learn random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet Uhm... was the binary roujobroken? 18:07:24 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 18:07:28 I knew that. 18:07:34 `run echo WHYYYYYY 18:07:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: run: not found 18:07:41 `? random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet 18:07:43 random-word-that-isnt-in-the-wisdom-yet Uhm... was the binary roujobroken? 18:08:24 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 18:08:39 `? nani 18:08:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?: not found 18:08:48 `? Roujo 18:08:50 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. He does not understand shell quoting. 18:08:54 -!- quintopia has changed nick to Guest73707. 18:09:10 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:09:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:09:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:09:49 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:09:55 -!- Guest73707 has changed nick to quintopia. 18:10:01 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 18:10:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 18:10:04 How do you change nicks? 18:10:12 /nick 18:10:15 not very well 18:11:01 `echo foo 18:11:03 foo 18:11:30 ~echo is my bot still working? 18:11:31 i hate channel that mute you and won't let you change nicks if you're not registered, because every time there's a split or i ping out, my nick changes and i have to part nick and rejoin 18:11:33 is my bot still working? 18:11:51 ~duck metasepia 18:11:51 Metasepia is a genus of small cuttlefish from the Pacific Ocean. 18:11:56 `pastewisdom 18:11:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 18:12:01 ~echo Is it working for me? 18:12:02 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 18:12:18 ~echo `echo foo 18:12:18 `echo foo 18:12:21 foo 18:12:58 Roujo: uhm. I think your chakras are misaligned. or something. the bots all hate you. hth. 18:13:40 Well that's no fungot 18:13:57 no fungot is no fungot 18:13:58 olsner: it can't work with files on unix that have accidentally been named with spaces in strings between 93 and 98 18:14:03 fungot: why do you snob Roujo? 18:14:03 boily: it does look pretty slick for scheme ( r5rs, or all? :) maybe its a list of symbols 18:14:16 I am a list of symbols, it seems 18:14:19 ~еcho foo 18:14:19 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 18:14:39 bom dily 18:14:57 good fternoontopia. 18:15:15 Bike................... 18:15:20 :p 18:15:22 ~echo foo 18:15:26 foo 18:15:41 ~echo `echo foo 18:15:41 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 18:15:42 What does hth mean btw? 18:15:44 * boily hugs his bot “I'll protect you from the vile machines!” 18:15:47 `? hth 18:15:49 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 18:15:51 ... 18:15:54 Nope 18:15:59 yep 18:16:16 ~echo `echo foo 18:16:17 `echo foo 18:16:19 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: echo: not found 18:17:05 ~echo `echo foo 18:17:06 `echo foo 18:17:07 foo 18:18:30 ~echo `echo foo 18:18:31 `echo foo 18:18:32 I AM THE LORD OF DARKNESS. ALL BOW BEFORE ME! 18:18:42 i see 18:18:43 D: 18:18:47 ~echo `echo foo 18:18:47 `echo foo 18:18:49 I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE! 18:18:52 anyway imo that's enough playing with bots everyone shut the fuck up 18:19:31 ~echo Bike: nah. I won't. 18:19:31 Bike: nah. I won't. 18:19:35 :D 18:19:54 I think HackEgo doesn't like your bot, boily 18:20:02 `echo foo 18:20:03 foo 18:20:06 THERE 18:20:19 metasepia: you're not a "one", you're a bot. you can still talk 18:20:23 @tell oerjan your attempt at unverbatimising won't work, you son of a submariner. 18:20:23 Consider it noted. 18:20:27 `cat bin/echo 18:20:28 cat: bin/echo: No such file or directory 18:20:56 Gregor: hey are the codu logs in your aegis 18:21:23 The codu logs are glogbot, which is mine. 18:21:43 i ask because the html logs seem busted 18:22:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:22:21 Well lookie there >_O 18:23:47 olsner: you mean, in a quote where there are multiple locutors, to have each of them starting a new line? <-- yes, and probably also if the same locutor locutes severally 18:26:41 olsner: I am tempted. 18:28:22 boily: Most people are. olsner is a temptere(ss|r) 18:30:02 * boily rolls a seduction check against olsner... 18:30:05 ~duck 20 18:30:06 --- No relevant information 18:30:11 ~dice 20 18:30:11 2 --- Sum = 2 18:30:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:30:31 I am seduced. olsner, I'll have a demo in a few minutes... 18:30:56 and I think you accidentally told me what Locutus (of Borg) means ... it makes sense, I just hadn't considered that it might mean something 18:31:42 and failed to match it up with other related words I knew such as loquacity and eloquent 18:36:36 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:45:37 olsner: ♪gong♪ take a peek at the PDF ↑. I reformatted a pikhq's quotes. I think the end result is quite nice. 18:45:48 s/d /d/ 18:46:05 s/da /d/ 18:46:16 s/dr/d r/ 18:46:30 wait, am i supposed to apply these serially or concurrently 18:48:26 serially. I'm not multithreaded. 18:48:53 maybe you should be 18:49:15 I... wouldn't like having biological race conditions... 18:50:00 just use a type system that statically prevents them, then 18:50:02 if you think the body does one thing at a time you've got another thirty things coming 18:50:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:50:34 Well, we *are* made up of atomic operations working in parallel... >_> 18:50:46 Bike: my brain abstracts me from all the gruelling details that happen below my cranium, which is fine by me. 18:51:07 (otoh, I'm a certified pianist. there's something wrong with me...) 18:51:14 uhhuh, remember that next time you get hungry 18:51:45 I'm not hungry. I had phở for lunch. 18:52:01 good choice 18:57:16 olsner: so, what is your opinion on the reformat? 18:59:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:59:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:00:12 -!- Bike has joined. 19:23:32 hmm... seems olsner disappeared. 19:23:35 ~dice 19:23:37 --- ~dice sides [number] 19:23:37 --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 19:23:42 ~dice 20 19:23:42 16 --- Sum = 16 19:23:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:23:50 yup. he disappeared. 19:24:00 -!- conehead has joined. 19:26:37 -!- iconmaster has joined. 19:26:47 ^bool 19:26:48 No. 19:26:54 Apparently fungot disappears. 19:26:54 fizzie: hm gentoo got that too heh trudy an in fnord we think holland and the netherlands twice, and i know that 19:26:56 Disagrees. 19:27:02 (Brain bork.) 19:29:05 wasn't it Taneb that got his brain electrified one day? 19:29:10 s/that/who/ 19:29:13 Oui 19:29:34 C'est moi 19:29:56 Cool, cool. C'était comment? 19:30:30 je crois qu'il a plutôt souffert, mais c'était comédique :D 19:35:42 -!- Bike has joined. 19:36:37 Je ne suis pas une personne interrogée 19:38:12 Taneb: ne t'inquiète pas. tout va bien. prend une grande respiration, embrasse l'Univers, fnord, ouvre ton esprit, mange tes légumes, et la vie ira bien. 19:38:46 Oui, c'est la façon dont il est 19:40:05 qui est ce «il» auquel tu fais référence? 19:40:54 (meanwhile, the Stupid Vido of the Day is presented by... The Association of Longfused Linguo-Biologists: http://youtu.be/NFR-ADakI-c) 19:41:16 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322240/ The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute 19:42:21 boily, la vie, bien sûr 19:42:45 Taneb: vu de même, c'est logique. 19:42:57 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347208002467 Cerithidea decollata: a snail that can foresee the future? 19:43:42 Il <==> La Vie 19:43:43 Of course 19:43:44 Dammit 19:44:23 La vie doit être masculin, bon sang 19:44:51 boily: sciencedirect working now? 19:45:01 Wait, now it's broken for me. 19:45:04 What did you do! 19:45:51 Taneb: c'est féminin, et c'est comme ça. le genre en Français fait aucun sens, mais bon, il faut se compter chanceux; on en a juste deux. pas comme ces germaniques qui en on trois. 19:46:07 Bike: still borked on my side. I must be contagious. 19:46:14 D: 19:46:22 eh no big deal, it's an elsevier journal anywho 19:46:32 collection of* 19:46:42 Je parle à peine le français, je suis juste en utilisant Google Translate, en passant 19:47:27 Google Translate is best e 19:47:39 Taneb: I know. I'm testing the limits of feeding Québec French into Google Translate :p 19:48:11 How accurate is the Google Translate French I've been spewing out? 19:49:31 perfectly understandable. it's obvious it's been machine translated, but the structure is generally correct. 19:50:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:53:41 Google-translating your French titbits into English sometimes seems a bit weird 19:53:51 "...unlike German, who has three" 19:54:17 I suppose that's because English sneakily has three genders, just we almost always use the one that French doesn't have 19:57:26 «il faut se compter chanceux» → “we are lucky” 19:57:48 boily: i wonder why they think ladening snails will kill their path integration 19:57:51 «pas comme ces germaniques qui en on trois» → “not like those Germans who have three” 19:58:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:59:12 Ah, right, German 19:59:26 Der Männ, Die Frau, Das Kind 19:59:34 Plural? You're a woman! 20:00:49 boily: je pense que le nouveau format des citations est bonne, je l'approuve 20:01:07 s/bonne/bon/ 20:01:18 (that was google translate but except for spelling and grammar it's just like the wild guess I started with) 20:01:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:01:30 That was pretty good 20:01:42 The bonne->bon thing was the only thing that was off =) 20:02:04 boily: bien sûr que google translate n'en comprenne rien. il faut écrire "ont", pas "on"! 20:02:26 olsner: ça regarde bien de mon bord aussi. ça va juste me prendre une fungotload de temps à reformatter le tout... 20:02:26 boily: anyway it is hard trying to learn new paradigms? if so, the stuff in srfi-13. 20:02:50 nooodl: comment ça, «ont»??? 20:02:57 (je ne suis pas très sûr que je dois employer le subjonctif, là. mais ça a l'air "cool") 20:03:11 (un subjonctif bien placé, ça fait chic :D) 20:03:33 (ah oui! je suis en train d'oublier mes «guillemets») 20:03:41 "qui en ont trois" 20:03:46 mais en effet, la bonne conjugaison serait «n'y comprend rien». c'est plus ennuyeux, mais que veux-tu. 20:03:56 oh. typo de ma part. désolé! 20:05:02 boily: AUX LIONS 20:05:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:06:16 Roujo: eille :P m'a te garocher dans un troupeau de caribous si ça continue de même! 20:06:28 `run caribou run 20:06:29 bash: caribou: command not found 20:06:35 WE MUST FIX THIS 20:07:00 `run cadaver run 20:07:01 bash: cadaver: command not found 20:07:13 les dispositions des touches françaises ont-elles des touches pour '«' et '»', ou comment ça marche? 20:07:15 `run freedom run 20:07:17 ​♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 20:07:21 boily: you've already reformatted the whole thing a fungotload times, so I should ... regard your board? 20:07:22 olsner: here was my earlier example. saying " i wanted to marry scheme and perl are, they are 20:07:22 nooodl: Pas pour moi. =P 20:07:33 nooodl: boily est juste fancy comme ça =P 20:08:05 nooodl: AltCar-z et AltCat-x pour aller chercher les guillemets. 20:08:55 ZX 20:08:57 >nope 20:09:04 olsner: translation: “it also looks swell on my side. it's just going to take me a fungotload of my time to reformat that thing.” 20:09:04 boily: maybe i'll eat another one soon. it grows on you. i think if you really want 20:09:10 Then again, j'utilise le layout "Français (Canada)" 20:09:12 So yeah 20:09:30 fungot: I am not edible. 20:09:30 boily: i think i got the idea to anyone but possibly moonfish, so no comma should be inserted. but then again one could just load it up :) 20:10:25 I keep trying to parse what he says here - I never think to check who actually said it first 20:10:35 fungot: fyi, I'm of the homo sapiens sapiens species, not any weird sparkly fish, and if I see you approaching me with a comma in whatever hand-like appendage you have, you're gonna receive the *SMACK* of your life, you perv. 20:10:35 boily: not saying that optional arguments are hard. 20:10:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:11:02 fungot: that argument is not optional. don't try to flee from it, you silicon fiend. 20:11:03 boily: that is news, it reminds me of the ms source license, except that it never occured to me about stupid programming languages :) 20:11:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:11:49 fungot: acting smug while changing the subject and the license will get you nowhere, mister. I have ways to make your life miserable, so watch yourself. 20:15:06 there's way too much french here nowadays, I think we need more finns 20:15:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:15:42 Roujo: regäärde! möi aussi je parle en finnöis! :p 20:15:48 Well shit 20:16:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:17:55 olsner: jotain jotain perkele jotain... 20:24:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:27:41 boily: Sounds very authentic. 20:28:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:29:23 boily: aww 20:29:38 @tell oerjan helloerjan 20:29:38 Consider it noted. 20:30:59 oerjan: I *know* I @told you something, but what was it again? 20:31:13 Frooxius: who are you? 20:31:33 `relcome Frooxius 20:31:36 ​Frooxius: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:32:09 Roujo: he appears in the Great Old Small Numbered Quotes. 20:32:16 boily: something about submarines 20:32:18 Oooooh. Nice 20:32:23 oerjan: oh hm. 20:33:11 although that may not have been verbatim 20:33:38 oerjan: no, it is not. 20:34:09 btw, do you have a github account that I can link to the repo? 20:34:15 nope 20:34:47 `echo Well crap 20:34:48 I AM THE LORD OF DARKNESS. ALL BOW BEFORE ME! 20:35:10 `/bin/cat bin/echo 20:35:11 ​/bin/cat: bin/echo: No such file or directory 20:35:19 wat 20:35:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:35:31 `ord `echo Well crap 20:35:32 96 101 99 104 111 32 87 101 108 108 32 99 114 97 112 20:35:45 oerjan: there was... uhm... eh... we *slightly* abused the bots today. a little. 20:35:55 O KAY 20:35:57 `echo Yeah, a tiny bit 20:35:59 I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE! 20:36:43 What does `ord do? 20:36:48 `ord hats 20:36:50 104 97 116 115 20:36:53 Oooh, nice 20:36:56 shows unicodepoints 20:36:59 `ord ` 20:37:01 96 20:37:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:37:06 ^ord shows bytes instead 20:37:07 115 104 111 119 115 32 98 121 116 101 115 32 105 110 115 116 101 97 100 20:37:26 Roujo: i assumed you had redefined the echo command. 20:37:33 oerjan: You guessed wrong ^^ 20:37:43 `run /bin/echo $PATH 20:37:44 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 20:38:06 huh 20:38:16 `which echo 20:38:18 ​/bin/echo 20:38:33 `run echo test 20:38:35 test 20:38:38 `echo test 20:38:40 test 20:38:50 `echo test 20:38:51 test 20:38:57 `echo See, everything is fine 20:38:59 I AM THE LORD OF DARKNESS. ALL BOW BEFORE ME! 20:39:00 `echo Yeah, a tiny bit 20:39:01 Yeah, a tiny bit 20:39:03 `echo il se passe des choooooooses mystérieeeeeuses ici. 20:39:04 il se passe des choooooooses mystérieeeeeuses ici. 20:39:17 `echo Roujo is a botbreaker. 20:39:18 Roujo is a botbreaker. 20:39:36 `run ls bin/*echo* 20:39:38 bin/echo \ bin/echo 20:40:05 Roujo: ooh, clever 20:40:09 <3 20:40:26 `run echo bin/*echo* | hexdump -C 20:40:27 00000000 62 69 6e 2f 02 02 65 63 68 6f 20 62 69 6e 2f 16 |bin/..echo bin/.| \ 00000010 16 65 63 68 6f 0a |.echo.| \ 00000016 20:41:04 There's a nice 02 02 right there =P 20:41:09 And a 16 16. 20:41:12 fizzie++ 20:41:35 Roujo: the clever part is where that doesn't get copied when i paste from putty into `ord :) 20:41:42 oerjan: Yup ^^ 20:41:52 Most IRC clients don't show control codes =P 20:41:57 Since they're, well, control codes 20:42:05 02 is bold 20:42:09 16 is reverse 20:42:15 Putting them twice cancels it 20:42:49 `echo And using them here makes it transparent to most ^^ 20:42:53 I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE! 20:43:14 I'll find something more clever for next time =P 20:43:49 `echo it's subtle... 20:43:51 I AM HACKEGO! I AM THE VOID! PREPARE... TO DIE! 20:44:09 Vorpal: how's the child? 20:45:13 mtve: kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, fnord, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty... 20:45:28 Roujo: also, this all would have been revealed immediately if zzo38 were here 20:45:30 Vorpal has children? 20:45:55 oerjan: Why? =P 20:46:06 Eir client shows control codes? 20:46:34 Roujo: well, the one he made himself. 20:46:44 Wow 20:46:45 Nice 20:46:49 fizzie: according to the quotes, he was pregnant at one time. 20:47:14 Ah. 20:47:15 Roujo: s/Eir/Hir/. use real gender neutral pronouns. you're triggering me. check your privileges! 20:47:29 boily: now don't give us all a shock, i'm having trouble enough adjusting to fizzie being married. 20:47:38 boily: s/boily/pouti/g HOW DO YOU LIKE THEM APPLES 20:47:47 oerjan: Still? It's not exactly a new thing, you know. 20:48:02 fizzie: it's so out of character (for anyone here) 20:48:34 Roujo: let's duel! guerre des pouces! 20:48:41 We had a ten year anniversary-of-first-meeting day the other day, incidentally. That there is a decade right there. 20:50:02 fizzie met a girl 10 years ago. that's as many as one ten! and this is good! 20:50:23 Holy userboxes batman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Zzo38 20:50:43 fizzie: I just got that with my SO ^^ 20:51:12 "This user does not trust electronic voting machines" there's a box for every purpose. 20:51:21 fizzie: congrats 20:51:28 fizzie: grats 20:51:30 @tell zzo38 ooooooooooow. 20:51:30 Consider it noted. 20:52:57 "This place is reserved for a UserBox." 20:53:05 "Ceci n'est pas une boîte utilisateur." 20:53:18 I guess my girlfriend and I first met about 8 years ago, but we didn't pay much attention to each other until 4 years ago or so 20:53:41 `quote system is fairly sane 20:53:42 boily: i'm sorry, don't try to mess with proud Agoran gender neutral tradition, it will not End Well. 20:53:42 358) "system is fairly sane imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum would you object to that being trademarked I mean phrase trade" oops 20:53:47 fizzie, how can you be so OLD 20:53:55 -!- Bike has joined. 20:54:19 should I include quote #358 in elliott's list, or just put it under Sgeo_'s? 20:54:25 Phantom_Hoover: That's more of a criticism for an oerjan, is it not? 20:54:35 oerjan: I'll pronounify as I see fit. 20:54:47 fizzie: oerjan is a unit of measurement? 20:55:01 boily: What else would you measure oerjan with? 20:55:03 boily: Then you will die 20:55:07 well oerjan doesn't seem as old! 20:55:18 also words are annoying... "girlfriend" sounds too casual but "significant other" is too long and formal; "partner" is ambiguous plus people will think she's a dude 20:55:28 "This user needs more userboxes. MORE, I tell you, more!!! Muhahaha!" 20:55:31 I just use SO 20:55:42 how about POSSLQ 20:55:50 Roujo: That always makes me think of Stack Overflow, which probably isn't the best connotation to have. 20:55:54 haha 20:56:04 fizzie: Depends on your SO's reputation, I'd guess 20:56:17 ~duck POSSLQ 20:56:18 POSSLQ is an abbreviation (or acronym) for "Persons of Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters," a term coined in the late 1970s by the United States Census Bureau as part of an effort to more accurately gauge the prevalence of cohabitation in American households. 20:56:54 and there I was thinking “Q” meant Québec, as in any other acronym you see here... 20:56:56 haha 20:57:24 Like the OQLF 20:57:57 Phantom_Hoover: i'm permanently eight years old, or so my dad seems to think 20:58:35 also she is in this channel sometimes 20:58:36 Roujo: speaking of the Language Police, it's been a while since we heard of them in the news, eh? 20:58:47 kmc: who is she, so I can PDF her? 20:59:27 her nick is douglass 20:59:27 kmc: what i remember about POSSLQ is that someone once made a song "Will you be my POSSLQ?" 20:59:30 she hasn't said much... 21:00:14 @tell douglass hi! do you consent to be PDFed? 21:00:15 Consider it noted. 21:00:33 ... 21:00:34 Welp 21:00:37 * Roujo gazes into the distance 21:00:39 Time to die 21:02:54 kmc: also wikipedia's article on that seems to indicate i remember wrong. i'll put it due to old age and senility. 21:03:11 *down to 21:03:48 wait, i don't think either of those are right. argh. 21:04:07 kmc: "girlfriend" is also an overloaded term ("going out with my girl friends / my girlfriend") 21:04:28 yeah 21:04:48 i thought the space was semantic in that one 21:04:50 not when guys say it though 21:04:56 I think it's generally unambiguous if you're male? 21:05:08 elliott: “my shrinkwrapped.” I know I shouldn't be laughing at that, but I can't stop. 21:05:20 elliott, not everyone with a girlfriend is male, though 21:05:41 yes, but kmc is... 21:05:46 yeah, the ambiguity is really only for female speakers ^^; 21:05:54 er no 21:06:11 not if you say it in a really camp voice 21:09:22 boot campvoice 21:09:28 *+ 21:12:44 http://motls.blogspot.com/2013/09/amplituhedron-wonderful-pr-on-new.html?m=1 some more info 21:12:59 Phantom_Hoover: haha 21:13:00 be careful linking to motl. 21:13:37 he's like the ulrich drepper of physics, or something. 21:13:58 he's a poster boy for engineer syndrome isn't he 21:14:03 what's engineer syndrome 21:14:38 where someone with some kind of technical expertise assumes it makes them an expert in everything 21:14:46 oh that 21:14:55 i would call it "programmer syndrome" but i'm a self-hating programmer so 21:15:04 I am an expert in everything. 21:15:06 "soylent syndrome" 21:15:08 i call it engineer syndrome because everybody hates engineers 21:15:28 engineers are great! long live engineers! 21:17:11 there seems to be like a general thing where some people when they see some other group of people doing something superficially dumb they will assume those people are dumb, rather than their knowledge incomplete (like "all these scientists are wrong") 21:17:26 (instead of "I don't understand fully what these scientists are doing") 21:17:47 yeah 21:18:02 "if they're so smart why aren't they programmers instead" 21:18:25 but like not really limited to engineers or programmers, I've seen it in all kinds of people I guess 21:18:36 kmc have you considered moving to a profession where you won't hate all your colleagues and yourself 21:18:43 it wouldn't last 21:18:44 marketing, say 21:18:59 I don't actually hate my colleagues and myself, though! I mostly avoid the bad parts of the industry 21:19:17 I work on open source at a kinda-non-profit with a bunch of amazingly smart and humble people 21:20:27 it should be clear that most of the reason I complain about programmers being shitty is some kind of projection or credible social committment to being better myself 21:21:02 it's not 21:23:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:26:57 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:30:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:42 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:31:47 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:43:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:43:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:44:33 Roujo: regäärde! möi aussi je parle en finnöis! :p <-- i'm sörry, but be möre careful with vöwel härmöny when speäking finnish 21:44:41 =P 21:45:25 oh wait, maybe that was right 21:47:27 It seems okay. It doesn't have any of aou with any of äöy. 21:48:28 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:50:40 Fun fact: "möi" is the third-person singular indicative past tens of "to sell" ("myydä"). 21:51:25 that doesn't sound very agglutinating. 21:51:54 Well, a dialectal variation. "myi" would be the variant considered official, I think. 21:52:35 It's not always just prefixes, sometimes there's quite a lot of stupid inflection. 21:52:40 Er, suffixes. 21:52:43 Postfixes. 21:53:02 møe bedre 21:53:12 agglutin-free diet 21:54:22 `words --finnish 20 21:54:25 polvimmissämme kometrissa parauhoittöksähtämä epämme sykoltamastansa tutkimiltä ruhjovimpiassa tytinne ilma-anostani tunktontuvakielemmilla lauluvaksenne kalisempää maltavan nyrpeekseli altasisäkuviksi siutuviannetina juhlasi ahersyttämänne murtuimpinemalta vapainokirichteyksi 21:55:19 `words --drunk --finnish 20 21:55:20 Unknown option: drunk 21:55:47 clearly something missing there 21:55:59 the --drunk option is meaningless with --finnish since it can't be disabled anyway 21:56:06 also what's that c doing in the last word 21:56:27 olsner: sure it can, finns can be either drunk or tee-totallers. 21:56:30 Heh, "altasisäkuviksi" is a compound word, arguably somewhat meaningless but not completely outlandish; the individual components together would mean something like "from below to pictures taken inside". 21:56:43 (And "juhlasi" is "your party", but that's pretty lame.) 21:56:54 maltavan doesn't mean anything? 21:57:48 Sadly, not really. If it started with v instead of m, then it would. 21:57:58 valtio 21:58:41 also i repeat, what's that c doing in vapainokirichteyksi 21:58:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:58:46 oerjan: Now that you've said that, it makes me wonder if "valtava" (huge, gigantic) and "valtio" (country, state) have some common etymology. 21:59:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:59:08 oerjan: The /usr/share/dict files that were used to construct those have some loan words, I think. 21:59:39 shocking 22:00:11 Including "Emacs", it seems. 22:00:51 Also 43 inflections of "Dirichlet". 22:01:10 dirichletässä 22:01:25 And the word "Discworldistakin" ("also from Discworld") but no other forms. 22:01:42 I wonder if these have been automatically constructed from some text. 22:03:10 http://sprunge.us/iBDi well that's quite messy. 22:03:53 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:04:42 "This dictionary recognizes over 6 million words and word forms. Ispell requires about 19 megabytes of memory when using this dictionary." 22:05:05 It's not the best spell checker for Finnish. 22:05:07 `slist 22:05:08 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 22:05:30 is alot even a real person 22:07:13 I think it's a fictional mammal 22:07:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:07:26 or "big furry creature" 22:08:05 I like this alot 22:08:11 fizzie: i like how it includes "200 most common words" 22:08:25 http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html 22:08:50 like how were any of those not already in the other sources 22:09:41 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:32 it seems the other sources where not very good 22:12:47 The other sources do not sound terribly good. 22:14:59 -!- Koen has joined. 22:15:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:16:33 Still, the Institute for the Languages of Finland has a 94110-word "general-purpose common modern Finnish words" wordlist licensed under LGPL, EUPL and CC-BY, wonder why they didn't use e.g. that. (Though very possibly it wasn't available back then.) 22:17:14 hello 22:17:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:24:24 goede avond 22:25:00 hm 22:25:05 *- +n 22:31:26 your dutch is impressive 22:31:54 *googling 22:33:19 Fun fact 2: the Europarl English-Finnish parallel corpus has 31852489 Finnish words made out of 675089 unique forms, but 47011793 (approx. 1.48x) English words made out of only 106841 (approx. 0.16x) unique forms. 22:35:02 Fun fact 3: the fourth most common Finnish word is "Euroopan" (Europe's). 22:35:10 (I think this corpus might have a kind of a bias.) 22:36:16 you don't say 22:36:37 have i mentioned how silly finnish is 22:36:57 50 most common English words: http://sprunge.us/OXVM 22:37:03 fungot: Can you speak like that? 22:37:04 fizzie: mr president, as usual, it seeks to bring prices down and raises standards of living in latin america, especially the most defenceless and disadvantaged, a few words about how this disease came about and how it is done in burma, and are in fact being reversed. on the other hand, where income tax is only 10% of the population, thereby fulfilling its commitment to peace, to economic and social operators at local level. th 22:37:32 fungot: You forgot the "h" in the terminating "hth" hth 22:37:33 fizzie: mr president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the socialist group have a reservation. surely we do not actually have anything against a fair tax burden, but the only issue on which the entire arab world with the exception of actions directly benefiting the people. 22:37:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:40:12 did fungot just not calculate line length properly there? 22:40:13 oerjan: mr president, the next mca will come along while in the opinion of the members of the committee responsible, which may mean that responsibilities become more confused in a europe which does not violate multilateral frameworks, in jointly protecting our interests and in our actions, a proposal, so we are not in a position to deliver its opinion. 22:40:31 oerjan: It doesn't really calculate line lengths at all. 22:40:38 did fungot swap personalities with someone? 22:40:39 (For the babbling.) 22:40:39 Koen: mr president, president chirac also expressed the hope that it is not linked to production, but we have a promise on page 12, last line, item 21, calls for a continuation of the supply structure of the proposed amendments would simply duplicate or encroach on these documents. 22:41:05 fizzie: oh, so it's just luck that it doesn't get cut off in the middle of a word more often? 22:41:18 he's talking to me about chirac 22:41:18 he was talking with fizzie about the entire arab world 22:41:24 a logical deduction is that fizzie is arab 22:41:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:41:42 fungot: is Koen insane? 22:41:44 oerjan: that would be in our midst. the only people who seem to be confusing anti-tank and anti-personnel mines is an enormous difference between degrees of enrichment of uranium has been a reality for the time and effort in preparing for these reforms are. the rapporteur himself says, this is not premature because the questions will be given priority over, for example, a political power game. we are engaged in a democratic cou 22:41:46 and oerjan is european apparently 22:42:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:42:24 so far all evidences support my thesis oerjan 22:42:25 ^style 22:42:26 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:43:13 shachaf: the current style is obviously not nethack, but I can't say anything about the others 22:43:16 oerjan: Pretty much. Though there rules -- assuming no bugs -- make the stopping probability 1 after a 100 words. But that line that got cut off is just 74 words; politicians are so verbose. 22:44:01 fungot: don't you mr president me 22:44:01 shachaf: president of the european union would generate ten million jobs created between 1997 and 1999, we want to do something about this. 22:44:17 Yeah, we'd better do something about all those jobs. 22:44:37 fungot: what are we going to do about all those jobs 22:44:38 shachaf: mr president, the conditions for them. we parliamentarians have been fnord on behalf of the european monetary institute and the problem of the cost of currency exchanges. the commission's humanitarian aid gets through to them; the rest is up for discussion within the middle east. 22:45:51 Koen: watch the stars 22:46:24 the moon is full 22:46:25 what else? 22:47:05 Koen: i mean the stars of ^style 22:47:36 europarl 22:47:51 fungot: YOU are the star. 22:47:52 fizzie: mr president, please allow me, by way of clarification, the joint inspection structure, eur 100 000 to create four regional advisory councils. now to play that role in the advent of the information channels between olaf, the committee on legal affairs and the internal market, which will be extremely interested in as well the continuing lack of democratic debate and to this end. 22:48:06 I guess that is consistent 22:48:39 fungot: I'm not giving you a hundred thou for some advisory councils, just forget about it. 22:48:39 fizzie: mr president, i would accept that 10 of all the member states and the candidate countries have had the political courage to debate it. we extended candidacy to turkey. 22:54:42 -!- bike has joined. 22:54:47 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:27 -!- bike has quit (Quit: [spurious input; ignoring]). 23:16:29 -!- bike has joined. 23:17:39 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:18:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:18:52 -!- bike has quit (Client Quit). 23:19:04 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:22:15 -!- iconmaster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:17 fizzie, why is there no finnish mode for fungot 23:53:18 Phantom_Hoover: mr president, i should like to congratulate mr scapagnini in his absence i am happy to engage in a process of peace and the respect of their own are entitled to bring this proposal to modify the current system in order to have any influence on those aspects where there is a small step. 23:53:20 imo there should be 2013-09-19: 00:01:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:05:28 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:21:10 -!- augur has joined. 00:25:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:30:06 `run freedom run 00:30:07 ​♪♪ Freedom run away... ♪♪ 00:34:35 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Quit: john_metcalf). 00:53:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:54:41 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:16:10 -!- madbr has joined. 01:16:21 hmm, I wonder how this data structure is called 01:16:32 a vector that's split into pages (of, say, 256 entries perhaps) and each page can be "rotated" by an offset 01:17:05 so that if you insert or remove an element, you don't have to update everything, only the page where it was inserted/removed, and then the first entry of all the following pages (plus "rotating" the page to keep the order consistent) 01:18:04 madbr: Interesting ^^ 01:19:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:21:01 Random access is O(1), insertion/deletion is O(sqrt(N)) 01:24:05 * pikhq prefers skip lists 01:25:16 Average O(log n) search, insert, delete, index and O(n) in-order access? Whee. 01:28:06 don't you already get that from a tree? 01:28:51 Indexing? 01:28:57 Also, skip lists are easy. 01:29:05 mhm 01:29:38 I'm trying to go for a structure that's balanced mostly towards random access 01:30:24 with better performance than O(n) for insertion but worse than O(n log n) 01:32:28 (fair note, O(log n) figures are average case. Worst case is O(n) 01:32:29 ) 01:33:01 If you insert more data than a page though, then this structure wouldn't be faster than a straight vector though 01:33:28 you'd need to introduce page remapping, which would slow down indexing 01:35:06 it would also be possible to introduce multiple page levels, which would reduce insertion cost to O(cuberoot(N)), O(N^0.25), O(N^0.2) etc depending on the number of levels 01:35:33 or O(n log n) if you had variable number of levels 01:41:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:52:23 Bike... isn't here 01:52:30 Imagine if Common Lisp didn't have gensym :/ 01:52:59 imagine if common lisp macros were hygienic 01:53:04 Tcl does not have gensym built-in. It's easy to write, but considering you have to do so or use a library, people might not think to reach for it 01:53:04 @ask Bike What would Common Lisp be like if it didn't have gensym? 01:53:05 Consider it noted. 02:04:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:13:26 -!- Bike has joined. 02:18:26 p 02:19:38 @tell roujo like java without println, in that you can add the stupid thing back in like three seconds 02:19:38 Consider it noted. 02:31:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:39:07 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:41:32 -!- myndzl has quit (Quit: .). 02:42:49 -!- myndzi has joined. 03:13:26 Sure, but then everyone is forced to write their own or use a library 03:13:38 Which could make using it feel more awkward 03:13:41 yes. 03:14:02 people do that lal the time for other stuff though. no big eal. 03:14:11 no big eel. 03:19:27 "• NULL cipher suites provide no encryption." 03:19:47 No shit? Why would/does SSL/TLS support something like that? 03:20:13 null cipher as in identity? 03:20:25 oh, it's something else, derp 03:20:53 Oh, it is? 03:21:12 "A null cipher is an ancient form of encryption where the plaintext is mixed with a large amount of non-cipher material. It would today be regarded as a simple form of steganography. Null ciphers can also be used to hide ciphertext, as part of a more complex system." 03:21:21 according to god. 03:21:38 like using the first letter of each word, that kind of thing. 03:22:02 The null cipher in SSL seems to be identity 03:22:20 oh, well, i'm sure somebody needs identity for something 03:22:26 identity is just such a useful thing to have 03:27:14 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:41:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:09:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:11:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:25:51 Does anyone happen to know what happens if a C++ program uses __attribute__((constructor)) or equivalent with a function that can raise an exception? 04:27:05 try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light 04:27:16 i expected that. 04:28:05 I mean, I don't think the C++ spec says anything about __attribute__((constructor)), although it probably says what happens if the actual constructor of a global/static object throws 04:28:24 well, yeah 04:28:33 i mean the loads-on-dlopen stuff 04:29:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:39:32 ?messages-loud 04:39:32 oerjan said 2d 18h 13m 35s ago: I have also started seeing the thing where wikipedia tries to change to https automatically. I kind of like it. I think it's set by the "Always use a secure connection 04:39:32 when logged in" preference. 04:39:32 boily said 7h 48m 2s ago: ooooooooooow. 04:40:26 you can't really do "Always use a secure connection when and only when logged in" with HTTP 04:40:40 you can send an HSTS header but it will apply when not logged in too 04:46:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:46:39 Now I have the full updated version of CGA Collection: http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/CGACOLL.ZIP The programs and documentation are updated, and there are some new ones such as Attribute Zone. 04:48:17 -!- Zuu has joined. 04:52:34 oerjan: 21:45 shachaf: Monads are algebras of the free monad monad. 04:52:38 -!- variable has changed nick to trut. 04:52:38 21:45 New slogan. 04:52:42 -!- trut has changed nick to trout. 04:59:13 yes 05:00:10 Please tell me if you like this game and of the upgrades it has, and of bug report, comment, opinion, question, complaint, and if you made up any new levels for these games and/or new games to add to this collection 05:01:26 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:02:08 -!- Yonkie has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:09:42 -!- carado has joined. 05:20:45 I have been thinking about the Newcomb's, and realize that purely statistically speaking, picking one box would seem to have the best expected value. However, "statistically speaking" is not the only way to speak. 05:27:01 This program compresses 28 sokoban levels into 942 bytes, although I am sure I could get much better compression than that; I have calculated that even simply adding Huffman coding improves will make it half the size. 05:28:32 Do you know a better way (which won't slow down too much or become too complicated)? 05:30:25 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:36:43 -!- Zuu has joined. 05:41:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:45:05 `pastequotes pooryorick 05:45:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4128 05:48:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:51:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:58:30 You could probably technically use the NULL cipher if, for some reason (maybe to be NSA-friendly?), you want a non-encrypted but authenticated pipe. (Though that reason doesn't really hold for the TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL cipher suite.) 05:58:57 null tls with left beef 05:59:26 working nsa codename for skipjack 06:00:10 Anyway, "Application data MUST NOT be sent prior to the completion of the first handshake (before a cipher suite other than TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL is established)." 06:01:12 "TLS_NULL_WITH_NULL_NULL is specified and is the initial state of a TLS connection during the first handshake on that channel, but MUST NOT be negotiated, as it provides no more protection than an unsecured connection." 06:01:36 I guess it's cleaner to say that the handshake part also has a particular TLS mode. 06:03:14 (But e.g. TLS_RSA_WITH_NULL_SHA256 -- RSA for server authentication, the NULL cipher and SHA256 for the MAC -- seems to be on the cipher suite list, so I guess that's something you could negotiate.) 06:09:24 ''This project has been named Gandalf, which stands for "Generic, AdvaNceD Application Loader (Filesystem aware)", and it is inscribed upon the source that it is the "One Bootloader to rule them all, One Bootloader to find them, One Bootloader to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."'' 06:09:57 m-hm 06:10:10 "Note: This project bears no connection with the Lord of The Rings." 06:10:12 :D 06:10:15 m-hm 06:27:43 `smlist (426) 06:27:45 smlist (426): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 06:28:43 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:28:55 what a good tuesday 06:29:09 I'm glad I forgot to read super mega for like a month. now I get lots of them in one go 06:36:43 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:38:50 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:39:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: OK). 06:56:30 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:56:38 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:22:45 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:55:46 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:07:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:08:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:11:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:14:31 -!- Taneb has changed nick to nvd. 08:14:31 Huh, not registered 08:15:09 -!- nvd has changed nick to Taneb. 08:23:10 "Note: This project bears no connection with the Lord of The Rings." <-- of course not, a _real_ connection wouldn't confuse gandalf and sauron. 08:24:23 fizzie: i say you make the finnish fungot style out of all the spam that keeps coming these days. 08:25:18 i guess getting finnish spam would not be as weird to a finn. 08:25:39 fungot: Would you like to learn Finnish? 08:25:44 ... 08:26:05 fungot: are you rebelling against your maker? 08:26:15 Last thing in the log is that "Huh, not registered". 08:26:58 something has gone horribly wrong! 08:30:04 oerjan: I don't get any Finnish spam. :-( 08:30:21 curious. 08:32:55 Curious also: I get "PING :pratchett.freenode.net"s in the log every few minutes. 08:33:02 It's like a split without a split. 08:35:17 Taneb is also on pratchett fwiw 08:36:07 didn't it log his nick change? 08:36:13 It did log that. 08:36:18 Should've said "last comment". 08:36:27 Everything after the nick-change is just PINGs. 08:36:32 Huh. 08:36:33 right. 08:36:44 Your quote just came in. 08:36:52 Only 14 minutes or so late. 08:37:06 Perhaps there's some sort of a time distortion field? 08:37:11 eek 08:38:07 I don't have timestamps in the rawlog to console, sadly. Perhaps I should have. 08:40:15 Still no sign of your first line mentioning fungot, which I guess means the distortion is getting worse. 08:40:23 oerjan: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, i think this is already the case for the past ten years, after fifteen years of decline due to the lower age limit of 18 years of this directive may well also prove quite difficult now. the second point which i would like to focus briefly on the issue of inadequate human and financial resources available. the same goes for the liberal economy and to the disadvantage of consumers an 08:40:44 let me guess, it just got in :P 08:41:08 You chose... correctly. 08:41:13 and yours haven't 08:41:16 Right. 08:41:24 Funny that the reply got through pretty much immediately. 08:41:41 yeah 08:42:06 Somewhere in the network there's a very long queue, I suppose. 08:43:29 fizzie: as i think it is wrong that all the citizens of north korea to grow seed crops that will produce, we want a europe which locks people out. they have forced the flexibility instrument because, in balancing up the different methods of waste disposal as proposed by the commission. 08:43:45 oerjan: commissioner, you have set a timetable, as we have all been quite horribly murdered by people coming from some of the reasons why others cannot be overlooked in this information society are, ladies and gentlemen, i am more than happy to grant the commission discharge. how much is it? entirely because of the substance in a declaration. i hope you will understand history and the brutality was not just the euro, that it co 08:44:33 I would like to learn Finnish 08:44:41 17 minutes 08:45:02 and a Taneb, but no way to know how soon he responded. 08:46:05 At the moment it is at "something has gone horribly wrong!" 08:47:14 my fungot whois from way back came in 08:47:56 I have to say that IRC feels a bit bumpy to me 08:48:11 you would say that, wouldn't you. 08:48:24 fizzie: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, i have supported, and the traffic in northern italy over the past few years with regard to a simple majority in parliament who are not. 08:48:57 wait, when did you say the next fungot 08:49:05 oerjan: when we talk about the dutch example that you yourself, mr santer made a statement on its positions concerning key budgetary issues. in respect of public health protection, the contribution of this report despite the fact that the treaty of nice which, mr fnord, the leader of the governing council if we really want to hold up a mirror to turkey's progress reports year after year hangs over the forests of the north. i fa 08:49:14 oerjan: mr president, you just responded to mr wijsenbeek and this house will take note of these. the commission welcomes the european parliament's estimates, also in the european union 08:49:28 @ping 9-49-30 08:49:28 pong 08:49:28 It's caught up now. 08:49:29 you're back! you're safe! 08:50:33 fungot: You're back! 08:50:36 fizzie: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! 08:51:01 also Taneb 08:51:16 I'm not entirely sure what is going on 08:51:43 Nothing to see here but reflections from weather balloons, move along. 08:51:43 oh no, he's still distorted - in his mind! 08:52:44 Taneb: do you also feel a weird attraction to learning welsh? 08:52:57 oerjan, not relly 08:53:10 But I do have a lot of italian biscuit things 08:53:12 ah. then i gues you aren't the reincarnation of tolkien anyhow. 08:53:20 oh darn, italian. 08:53:22 *+s 08:53:48 that was the inspiration for one of his smaller elvish dialects 08:54:53 fungot: wait how did you silently change from europarl to ct 08:54:55 oerjan: the knight spirit has long been broken! the mountain of woe. it's likely that dalton came from the laboratories to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh? 08:54:55 I did actually try to learn Welsh once 08:55:02 Didn't get very far 08:55:12 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:55:34 fungot: can the sword alone stop? 08:55:36 oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this world are places like that. a peaceful. hah! you think you are? coming and going out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 08:56:50 fungot: yes, but how is that relevant to sword stoppability? 08:56:52 oerjan: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca the great magus. oh! crono!! 08:57:54 fungot: but i'm not very good with swords. might lose my arm or something. 08:57:55 oerjan: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! i owe you one! you saved the day of lavos"... go to " mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 08:58:16 fungot: well keep looking. 08:58:50 oerjan: I thought, given your exclamation points and the topic of time shenanigans, it would be more appropriate. 08:59:02 ah. 09:03:13 @arr It's that day again! 09:03:13 Har de har har! 09:26:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 09:26:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:37:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:43:33 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:05:57 -!- Koen has joined. 10:21:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:07:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 11:08:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:23:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:25:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:28:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:43:49 -!- augur has joined. 11:55:38 I just can't help it that the Python list-flattening "idiom" (I'm not sure how widely used it) of [item for sublist in list for item in sublist] just confuses me. I can think through it with effort, but it just doesn't parse right in my head naturally. 11:56:01 I think if they had it in the [item for item in sublist for sublist in list] order it would. 12:17:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:29:32 -!- yorick has joined. 12:30:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:36:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:50:43 What's the generic installed-by-default Unix-like tool for computing sums of numbers? I'm getting tired of always writing a perl or awk oneliner. 12:52:35 dc 12:53:04 Actually, I think only bc is specified by POSIX, but historically speaking, dc. 12:54:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:57:14 I think I've used bc but that involves making a summation expression, which is nasty too. 12:59:35 I think the perl oneliner is the correct way to do it 13:03:48 `run echo '1 2 3 4 5' | dc - <(echo '0ss[q]sq[z1=qrls+ssdx]dxlsp') 13:03:50 15 13:03:51 Elegant? 13:04:07 I'm sure that's easier to construct than a Perl oneliner. 13:04:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:08:25 there should be J installed everywhere! make things much easier 13:10:40 -!- boily has joined. 13:10:47 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:11:00 ) +/ 1 2 3 4 5 13:11:01 oerjan: 15 13:11:20 myname: 13:11:27 oh my god 13:11:33 how is that bot done? 13:11:50 darn hth preservation failure 13:12:11 myname: i don't know but jconn has been here for ages 13:12:27 that's just beautiful 13:12:28 "Note: This project bears no connection with the Lord of The Rings." 13:12:28 "Note: This project bears no connection with the Lord of The Rings." 13:12:35 wat 13:13:11 when you accidentally paste with your stomach you might be having your laptop too comfortably placed 13:13:58 good since-when-oerjan-can-hth-again morning! 13:14:17 myname: J. 13:14:30 i know J 13:14:39 but i don't know how that bot works 13:14:51 i want to rewrite that for myself 13:15:28 myname: iirc, you'll have to ask Jafet. I think he's the one who's jconning this chännel. 13:15:54 i am writing an xmpp bot ;) 13:17:13 boily: i've always been able to hth, just not at the end of the line 13:17:34 oerjan: oh. tdh. 13:18:52 is d for did or for didn't? 13:19:10 should be did, otherwise you say 13:19:41 the tdh is not the tdnh, if twh. hth. 13:20:01 oerjan: how many hth variants are your barred from? 13:21:09 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:21:15 boily: hth, twh, twnh, tdh and 13:34:34 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 13:34:41 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 13:34:42 -!- audioPhil has joined. 13:34:56 so, we live in a world where, after something attains perfection for a while, it then becomes unfashionable and falls out of use. 13:35:26 (daily oerjan melancholy) 13:38:53 just wait 20 years, then your melancholy will become retro and vintage. 13:39:58 no, that happened 20 years ago, then it went out of fashion again. of course it happened during the _one_ period in my life when i wasn't depressed. 13:40:23 what the hell are you talking about 13:40:44 myname: yeah, pretty much. 13:41:26 the theory that i'm already dead and in hell has a lot going for it. 13:41:50 * oerjan somehow laughs, anyhow. 13:42:16 * boily gives a herring plushie to oerjan 13:42:58 that sounds like a friendly gesture, but i'm afraid it's a red herring. 13:44:11 it only appears red because of hell's lighting. it's an optical illusory friendly herring ersatz. 13:45:47 oerjan: i still haven't figured out what a piece of code did you gave me once :D 13:46:29 myname: well i've forgotten? 13:46:42 most likely 13:47:03 you could paste, if you like. 13:47:06 it was (2+(1< oh. 13:47:13 :D 13:47:45 hm was that for an esolang? i remember there was one that needed bit shifting. 13:48:08 yeah, it was for one i designed and i proved turing-completeness recently 13:48:45 it was for testing something for x. 13:48:52 sign 13:49:05 silly me, trying to run that through python. either it's complaining about negative shifts, or long ints being too large. 13:49:23 I wonder if I can haskell that code... 13:49:48 > [(2+(1`shiftL`x))`shiftL`(-1-(1`shiftL`x)) | x <- [-2..2]] 13:50:01 now what 13:50:07 @ping 13:50:08 pong 13:50:20 :t shiftL 13:50:25 Bits a => a -> Int -> a 13:50:31 -!- carado has joined. 13:52:12 ok if x is negative, that gives 2<<(-1), which should be 1. 13:52:25 yeah 13:53:03 otherwise it should be 0 13:53:15 how did you came to this :D 13:55:28 well, the idea is that shifting y right by y would give 0 for any number, but by decreasing the shift slightly you can get a few exceptions. 13:55:47 'morning, #esoteric 13:56:26 or well, step 1: 1< Realization of the day: My girlfriend in NP-Complete 13:56:59 is* 13:57:15 what 13:57:19 I'm tempted to answer «helloujo», but mentioning any word that has «hell» in it seems to disrupt ørjan today... 13:57:26 Roujo: bon matin! 13:57:47 That is, given a certain desired outcome, it is very hard to find the required input 13:58:08 However, given a certain input, it's pretty easy to see if it produces the desired outcome 13:58:09 step 2: use right shifts and tweaking with constants to turn 0 into 1 and every other positive number to 0. 13:58:26 So yeah. NP-Complete 13:58:59 Roujo: you are assuming the input always has the same effect. otherwise, she might be PSPACE-Complete. 13:59:31 oerjan: Well, given that she's in the same state, the same input will always have the same outcome 13:59:37 Roujo: isn't that just the definition of "being in np"? 14:00:01 myname: ...yeah 14:00:06 Sounds like it, anyway 14:00:19 OH WELL 14:00:22 to be np-complete you have do reduce to 3sat 14:00:40 Sure, I'll get right on that 14:00:41 Brb 14:02:04 no, you need to reduce 3sat to her. sheesh, people always get that the wrong way around. 14:02:20 oh, yeah 14:02:30 I guess the NP problem would be "interacting with my girlfriend", anyway 14:02:35 Not my girlfriend herself 14:02:38 Welp 14:02:41 So... 'morning 14:02:45 How is everyone? 14:03:14 Roujo: i dunno, it feels more like sokoban (where you can get stuck in corners) than sudoku, no? and sokoban is PSPACE-complete. 14:03:42 Perhaps she is equivalent to set domination. 14:03:46 Roujo: gorging myself on unapproved yerba mate. 14:03:57 Right. The way I formulated it implied that there's always a solution, didn't it 14:04:02 boily: D: 14:04:31 boily: in what way unapproved? 14:04:36 Roujo: my argentinian coworkers disapprove my technique. 14:04:40 boily took your yerbs 14:04:45 i see 14:04:53 ~duck yerb 14:04:53 Software description: a ruby gem which adds support for yerb (yaml with erb) to yaml (Ruby). 14:04:56 let her make it 14:05:42 `? yerb 14:05:43 yerb? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:05:44 | 14:05:44 º¯`\o 14:06:44 ~duck jerb 14:06:45 Software description: eRB for JavaScript (JavaScript). 14:08:01 ~duck yeek 14:08:01 --- No relevant information 14:08:32 ~duck oerjan 14:08:32 --- No relevant information 14:08:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:11:19 hellœsthiswork. 14:13:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:14:44 I'd say that yes 14:14:50 helooodlo. 14:15:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:16:29 [10:06:08] [09:20:01] oerjan: how many hth variants are your barred from? 14:16:29 [10:06:08] [09:21:15] boily: hth, twh, twnh, tdh and 14:16:31 Rofl 14:17:03 he's not allowed to use them at the end of sentences 14:17:07 thus the "and" 14:17:13 I know =P 14:17:21 That's why I found it funny 14:17:37 I'm just curious as to what that last one was 14:17:40 i guess it's tdnh 14:17:48 Ah, yeah, probably 14:17:49 Thaks 14:17:51 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:52 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:53 that would help, that would not help, that did help, that did not help 14:17:55 s/a/an/g 14:18:07 Roujo: most of them are in the wisdom. 14:18:08 oh, netsplit! 14:18:08 -!- kmc has joined. 14:18:09 `pastewisdom 14:18:10 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 14:18:41 I had a nice conversation with Koen the other day, re: netsplits 14:18:50 Something about being on the "right side" of the split 14:19:10 And how he always managed to do that, since it was always the other side that quit the channel 14:19:36 -!- Tayler has joined. 14:19:37 hello 14:19:43 `relcome Tayler 14:19:46 ​Tayler: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:19:49 anybody here? 14:19:53 Yup ^^ 14:20:26 -!- conehead has joined. 14:20:28 hi Roujo 14:20:35 Heya. How is it going? 14:20:37 what's up? 14:20:41 The moon, mostly 14:20:47 Also, updog 14:20:54 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 273 seconds). 14:21:11 the moon? 14:21:16 Yeah, the moon is up 14:21:23 `pastelogs updog 14:21:48 HackEgo: SNAPPY 14:21:50 where are you from? it's day in my house rsrs 14:22:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3990 14:22:10 Tayler: It's day here as well, and yet the moon is up 14:22:44 i get it hehe 14:22:53 oerjan: Most of those are about dupdog. That's sad =P 14:23:03 kkkkkk 14:23:11 Roujo: yes, but look further 14:23:20 hm elliott split 14:23:25 And then elliott brought in another totally unrelated bot named updog which did nothing but say "what's updog" whenever its name was mentioned. 14:23:25 Nice 14:24:41 -!- Tayler has left. 14:25:25 he left! why do they always leave! I was typing the The Question! and asking him about his opinion on the malleability of steal! 14:25:35 the next time elliott complains about botspam in the channel, just mention updog 14:25:42 or maybe not. 14:26:05 boily: it's ok you don't need to ask the the question of people who aren't staying 14:26:29 oerjan: but it's fun... 14:26:34 it's supposed to be the center of mass of #esoteric, not people-who-once-passed-through-#esoteric 14:26:59 So the Regular Center of Mass, not the Transient one 14:27:08 I know. I only log the Relevänt Coördinates of People who Stay Here Enough to be Graphed by Fizzie. 14:27:37 * boily shudders in terror at the memories of transient responses in unstable dynamic systems 14:28:02 -!- elliott has joined. 14:28:26 oerjan: and besides, I assume temporary visitors have no measurable mass. 14:28:56 boily: well they're basically virtual particles, so presumably they borrow mass from the vacuum. 14:29:54 in light of that multidimensional eldritch amplitudedron, that confuses me even moreso. 14:30:14 *hedron 14:30:34 it's just yog sototh, nothing to be upset about 14:30:52 *+h 14:31:21 oh. I was worried there for a moment. 14:37:12 -!- updog has joined. 14:38:53 uhm. «updog (~updog@modemcable226.119-70-69.static.videotron.ca) a rejoint #esoteric». 14:38:53 what's updog? 14:39:02 subtle. real subtle. 14:39:30 i guess it was inevatble. 14:40:06 in fact i considered suggesting it, until i remembered how much trouble it was last time 14:41:24 hm .ca, perhaps this isn't elliott's work 14:41:38 * oerjan glares at Roujo 14:41:51 How much trouble is it if no one actually says updog 14:41:51 what's updog? 14:42:14 don't worry, that's not the troublesome part iirc 14:43:20 oerjan: it's hosted somewhere on a server probably southeast from downtown Montréal. 14:43:46 boily: why do you think i'm glaring at Roujo 14:44:07 I have no idea what you're talking about 14:44:12 There's no server involved at all 14:44:22 Roujo: neither did elliott, last time 14:45:37 What's the worst that could happen? =P 14:46:04 DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION 14:46:12 ...too late? 14:46:20 sheesh, you'd think he doesn't even _read_ tvtropes 14:46:25 69.70.0.0/16 belongs to Vidéotron. 69.70.96.0/19 is tied to a small hosting provider, linked to the Parti Québécois. the nearest good phở is in Chinatown. 14:46:50 * boily touches wood. no way I'm gonna get jinxed by an untroper. 14:46:54 Roujo: i see boily is slowly revealing all the important relevant information 14:47:19 oerjan: or – if BSD is involved – xkcd 14:47:30 oh hm 14:47:30 -!- aloril has joined. 14:48:21 this probably explains /dev/null/nethack, actually, which uses BSD exclusively 14:48:30 because it's run by NetHack players, they know how to deal with sharks 14:48:44 but the extra effort that takes subtracts from the time actually getting the tournament running 14:49:24 ais523: congratulations, you've managed to be too obscure to google 14:50:02 oerjan: because I don't rely on Google, I don't structure my sentences in such a way that Google can easily explain what they're about 14:50:07 which part were you trying to google? 14:50:46 well i have only got to the xkcd part 14:51:34 http://www.xkcd.com/349/ 14:51:37 found via duckduckgo 14:52:19 not a direct link, but the explainkcd page about it was the third result for "xkcd bsd sharks" 14:52:26 From broken desktop to sharks in 14 hours flat 14:52:27 nice 14:53:07 ais523: well i was trying to include "worst that could happen" 14:53:20 this conversation is probably some deeply profound statement about search engines 14:53:23 I'm just not sure what 14:54:09 `run quote reference #also this 14:54:11 88) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. 14:54:14 darn 14:54:37 `quote obscure 14:54:39 798) the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september 14:54:49 did someone remove the quote. 14:55:19 speaking of quotes, what should I down about those from People that Left the Channel and Probably will Never be Back? 14:55:52 Keep them 14:55:59 For they shouldn't be forgotten 14:56:27 I like 798 14:56:46 `quote ais523.*cultur 14:56:47 No output. 14:56:59 `pastlog ais523.*cultur 14:57:04 `pastequotes ais523 14:57:05 `quote 798 14:57:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18809 14:57:17 798) the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september 14:57:20 Oh 14:57:23 ... 14:57:26 2011-08-24.txt:23:42:16: ais523: also, rich for you to say essentially "how can not know " 14:58:50 Roujo: I'll lump them in a section, then. 14:59:47 `pastlog ais523.*obscure 14:59:55 2008-02-06.txt:17:17:28: ais523: i think yours is a bit too obscure, yeah 15:00:04 *SIGH* 15:00:46 you need more search terms than that 15:00:51 what are you trying to find, anyway? 15:00:56 or do you need to find it to know what it is? 15:00:59 An obscure quote, probably 15:01:24 yes, i don't remember the wording used 15:01:49 in fact, i vaguely recall having trouble searching for it before 15:05:13 Deewiant: who are you, so that I may not have to lump you and that you may Shine with your Own Section? 15:05:26 `pastlog ais523.*obscure.*reference 15:05:35 2009-04-29.txt:17:11:51: ais523: OBSCURE REFERENCE BUDDIES *HI5* 15:05:46 bah 15:05:56 `pastlog \.*obscure.*reference 15:06:05 2012-03-04.txt:05:10:37: 2011-12-01.txt:21:31:28: (on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) 15:06:22 oerjan: is it that one that you're looking for? 15:06:23 YAY 15:07:48 boily: I am the world's number one expert on Befunge and Funge-98. 15:07:53 funnily, it returned a previous search attempt instead of the original 15:08:30 Deewiant: thanks. 15:08:46 `learn Deewiant is the world's number one expert on Befunge and Funge-98. 15:08:51 I knew that. 15:09:28 yeah, I think I agree with Deewiant there 15:09:47 for ages, the ontopic discussion here was sustained via Deewiant and Vorpal discussing Funge-98 15:10:01 I can't remember who said that originally. (I know it wasn't me.) 15:10:02 We've had on-topic discussion here? 15:10:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:28 Taneb: yeah 15:10:32 it used to be ontopic all the time 15:10:46 then it stopped, and I stopped going here because there was no reason to stay 15:10:47 Taneb: the channel is Old. I'm digging deep into its History as we speak. 15:10:52 or, well, there used to be offtopic discussion too 15:10:58 but it was a smaller proportion 15:11:04 (it was also rather more distasteful) 15:11:12 `pastlog expert on Befunge and Funge-98 15:11:13 On-topic conversation will not be tolerated. 15:11:17 `quote did you even read the bible 15:11:19 No output. 15:11:19 No output. 15:11:23 ais523: It probably wasn't in those words. 15:11:25 Gregor: do you really want to drive me away from the channel again? 15:11:33 >_> 15:11:35 <_< 15:12:05 I ought to create another language 15:13:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Fnooordl). 15:14:38 Anyone want to try and collab? 15:14:47 And usher forth a new age of esolangs! 15:14:51 What's the idea? =) 15:14:52 Taneb: sure 15:15:08 Now all we need is a cool idea 15:15:40 hmm 15:15:54 Something to do with modulo arithmetic? 15:16:01 most of my ideas were either a) made into esolangs, b) turned out to be almost impossible to make into esolangs, or c) I haven't had the time to work out the details of 15:16:27 Most of my ideas were either a) stupid, or b) stupid and also made into esolangs 15:16:52 I dunno, even stupid ideas can be interesting esolangs 15:16:52 -!- augur has joined. 15:16:56 see Quiler, for instance 15:17:16 also I just searched that on Bulbapedia rather than Esolang by mistake 15:17:19 no results, unsurprisingly 15:17:49 An Esolang made out of Pokemon! 15:18:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PokéArena 15:18:22 a dataflow / visual programming of the bastard child of Maple, Mathematica and Matlab! 15:18:32 s/g o/g version o/ 15:18:38 unfinished, by the look of things 15:18:45 That sounds a bit unwieldy =P 15:19:14 you can see me and zzo38 trying to make PokéArena more realistic on the talk page 15:19:31 I was thinking more along the lines of pokemon being variables, with attacks being keywords (the effect depending on the type) 15:19:35 But yeah 15:20:50 ais523: Yeah, like you said on the talk page =P 15:20:51 OH WELL 15:21:15 We could start over with a new Pokémon-themed esolang 15:21:54 boily: typo on page 34 of the quotes PDF: there's a ~ that's rendering as a nbsp rather than a ~ 15:22:38 Call it "Battle" or something 15:23:20 the problem is that there's only 6 Pokémon on a team, with 4 attacks, 1 item, 1 ability each 15:23:26 putting hard limits on the size of the program 15:23:30 but that's interesting in its own right 15:23:52 ais523: nice catch. I'll have it replaced soon. 15:24:06 ais523: say, do you have a github account, so that you may commit it yourself? 15:24:11 Well, each Pokémon 6 stats, an experience value, a nature... 15:24:19 huh, Taneb is atriq? 15:24:27 boily: just Gitorious 15:24:34 I have a mostly irrational hatred of github 15:24:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:24:58 ais523, yes, I swear this is about the third time you've come to this revelation 15:25:04 I'm also Ngevd 15:25:08 I know you're Ngevd 15:25:11 And this morning I registered nvd 15:25:23 is atriq a rot-13'd ngevd? 15:25:36 Yeah 15:25:46 `rot13 atriq 15:25:47 ngevd 15:25:53 `rot13 taneb 15:25:55 gnaro 15:26:00 ais523: time to face you fears. otherwise, spiders, your mom, and all that psychanalysis stuff. 15:26:05 also, did you ever design that Rummy mixed with Breakout language? 15:26:08 "gnaro" sounds like it ought to be a Pokémon 15:26:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:26:16 ais523, I don't think so 15:26:24 I can't remember the context for that 15:26:28 `rot13 rot13 15:26:30 ebg13 15:26:31 `quote rummy 15:26:33 435) So it's like... Rummy mixed with... breakout? 15:26:41 `rot26 rot13 15:26:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rot26: not found 15:26:42 It was me badly misunderstanding something 15:26:44 Pff 15:27:07 Roujo: it's called `echo 15:27:24 also, "rot13 four times" is one of the stupidest of the Slashdot memes 15:28:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:28:13 `rot13 Slashdot | rot13 | rot13 | rot13 15:28:15 Fynfuqbg | ebg13 | ebg13 | ebg13 15:28:20 Right 15:28:22 `run rot13 Slashdot | rot13 | rot13 | rot13 15:28:24 No output. 15:28:30 What would a rummy-mixed-with-breakout esolang look like? 15:28:37 Rummy, and Breakout, presumably 15:28:56 I guess the ball would bounce off the cards 15:28:57 Jafet: who are you? are you Deewiant? do you want to be undescribed, lumped or separated? 15:29:16 Okay, in Rummy you have to collect (say 7 card hands) a 7-card straight or a 3 of a kind and a 4 of a kind 15:29:31 something like that, yes 15:29:33 In breakout, you have to bounce a ball on a paddle to destroy bricks 15:29:38 indeed 15:30:06 I guess the rummy part could have limited storage and be used for control flow and the like 15:30:17 and the breakout part could be for the unlimited storage 15:30:19 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 15:30:50 well, I shall certainly think about this 15:30:59 But now I must leave! 15:31:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:37:31 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 15:37:35 the early recorded history of the channel seems to be centered on sex... 15:38:01 boily: it was 15:38:12 I tended to stay out of those discussions 15:39:04 I'm surprised that Armok isn't on the Wiki 15:40:04 https://github.com/Frib/Armok 15:40:23 actually, I think the Deewiant era is where fungot came from 15:40:23 ais523: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 15:40:32 oh, must be set to chrono trigger mode 15:41:30 ais523: but fungot is fizzie's! 15:41:31 boily: but, we are far outnumbered! princess! i see you're dressing...normally again! chaos confuses you into attacking allies! a little tough on friendships! blind you can't see too well, ho!! see ya around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca 15:41:34 ^style 15:41:35 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:41:52 Bike: yeah, fizzie was using the improvements in Funge-98 interpreter design to test out fungot on 15:41:52 ais523: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! 15:41:59 At least I dimly remember fun­got appearing at some point 15:42:57 well fungot had to be created at some point in time 15:42:57 ais523: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! 15:43:05 it hasn't just existed forever 15:43:08 (also, relevant answer, neat) 15:43:24 It could have been here before me, in which case I wouldn't remember its appearance 15:43:42 (Or after, but I haven't left yet and it's already here.) 15:45:47 ais523: Perhaps some kind of a stable time loop. 15:46:18 ais523: In 2047, I'll use HackEgo's `send-to-the-past command to send it back to whenever it was it appeared. 15:46:34 fizzie: you're getting /very/ close to Feather territory there… 15:46:54 Also in 2047: EgoBot still won't be merged in HackEgo. 15:47:02 Gregor: why did I get five contradictory responses to /ctcp version? 15:47:04 `df 15:47:04 No need for an unimplemented HackEgo feature, we already have TRDS 15:47:05 df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 15:47:22 `df / 15:47:24 df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 0 0 0 - / 15:47:32 in 2047, Hong Kong will be merged into China. 15:48:14 ais523: They don't ALL contradict. 15:48:32 even the xchat ones all give different processor speeds 15:48:40 also, it turned out not to be called Windows 9 after all 15:49:30 xchat's "processor speed in ctcp version" thing is kind of silly. 15:50:11 Indeed. 15:50:12 (They could just put the vpenis.sh output in it directly.) 15:51:17 find /proc -type f -exec cat {} ';' 15:51:55 are there any -type f in /proc? 15:51:58 also you forgot the `run 15:52:08 I also "forgot" the ` 15:52:14 Since that wasn't intended for HackEgo. 15:52:20 It was a suggestion of how to make a CTCP VERSION line. 15:52:33 right 15:52:37 Also, of course, most of /proc is files. 15:52:47 yeah, but I thought none of it was regular files 15:52:57 I guess it might be full of irregular files pretending to be regular files 15:57:08 @tell asiekierka lumps and bumps and sections and stuff. 16:01:31 `pastequotes django 16:01:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27727 16:05:50 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:06:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 16:06:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:18 Phantom_Hoover: does Dwarf Fortress even allow you to craft items out of lava? 16:09:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:14:14 It allows you to direct dwarves to craft items out of former lava. 16:16:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:17:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:18:15 insufficient :( 16:20:24 so I've reading about skousen's analogical modeling, and I think it would be a fun logic language. You could tell it 2+2=4, 3+3=6 and 3+2=5 so when you asked it what 2+3 equals half the time it would say 4 and half the time 6 16:20:48 you don't even have to define functors 16:23:43 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Quit: brb). 16:24:08 how does that work? 16:24:22 it just looks for the closest match and randomizes between them? 16:25:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogical_Modeling 16:26:54 it finds the set of generalized matches that minimizes internal dissagreement 16:27:23 and then has them vote on the result 16:27:37 right 16:29:27 that seems pretty eso 16:30:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:31:39 there are a couple other algorithms that do about the same thing, but they are used for modeling how people generalize a set of examples to categorize new instances. 16:32:56 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:34:41 Phantom_Hoover: does Dwarf Fortress even allow you to craft items out of lava? 16:34:42 no 16:34:48 pity 16:35:00 it does let you pour it on nobles making unreasonable demands 16:39:15 I know 16:39:27 is that your preferred method of disposing of them? 16:39:32 And you can cool lava and make obsidian items 16:41:50 yes, although admittedly i never actually implemented it 16:44:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:44:55 I thought it was more common to drown them, or create rooms that they would fall out of 16:45:08 incidentally, is it possible to exile dwarves, rather than just killing them? 16:45:14 locking them out of the fortress, or the like? 16:45:59 that either amounts to killing them or has no effect 16:46:07 -!- aloril has joined. 16:46:19 if they're alive, and their mandates aren't met, they'll still be able to issue random punishments 16:47:02 and people will actually pay attention to them? 16:47:12 this seems unrealistic 16:47:25 They are dwarves. 16:50:07 DF 16:50:10 Realistic 16:50:21 Well. It *is* pretty realistic at times. 16:50:59 And yet dwarves will go outside, one after the other, in the middle of a siege, just to try and get that wool sock that's lying aroud 16:51:13 df <3 16:53:05 I love that game 16:53:44 Do you guys know about the Armok programming language? 16:54:46 that sounds amazing 16:55:01 and people will actually pay attention to them? 16:55:12 it just goes straight through to your justice system 16:55:38 -!- S1 has joined. 16:55:42 so actually you can completely neuter them just by not establishing one, but that has other disadvantages 16:58:54 myname: https://github.com/Frib/Armok 16:59:06 yeah, i'm reading it 16:59:25 No nobles yet, but still =P 17:01:17 dwarves handle rocks... you can get rocks by mining... that makes me wondering, is that a zero-sum programming language? 17:01:45 as in the only way to increment a variable is to decrement another, or something 17:01:55 no 17:02:05 mining creates 64 rocks from one block 17:02:09 and do we have other zero-sum esolangs? 17:02:31 that would indeed be interesting 17:02:59 Call it Equilibrium or something 17:03:03 to be original, imagine the following brainfuck-derivative 17:03:14 Yayyy, YABFD! 17:03:40 there's an unbounded tape of -128 to +127 non-wrapping cells, all starting at zero 17:04:07 and hmmm there's a toggle which can be PLUS or MINUS 17:04:18 and when it's at plus, the - instruction is a no-op 17:04:27 and when it's at minus, the + instruction is a no-op 17:04:42 you could say, + in your language is like +>-< in BF 17:04:44 and instructions are the same as in brainfuck except every usage of + or - toggles the toggle 17:04:50 there you have zero-sum 17:05:02 hmmm yeah I'm afraid 17:05:16 okay it's not so interesting then 17:05:22 Koen's version sounds a lot more impractical 17:05:22 indeed 17:05:24 I like it 17:05:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:06:01 -!- augur has joined. 17:06:37 Roujo: yeah but you could convert any brainfuck program into this derivative by replacing + with +>-<, - with ->+<, > with >> and < with << 17:06:48 (except for the non-wrapping thing) 17:07:08 Righ =P 17:07:11 Right( 17:07:15 Dammit 17:07:21 so that's boring 17:07:37 okay what about: 17:07:40 Just make it so that odd cells can only be incremented 17:07:43 every cell starts as 1 17:07:50 And even cells can only be incremented 17:07:53 and cells can only be positive 17:07:55 Erm 17:08:03 even cells can only be decremented 17:08:22 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:08:28 therefore you can't double every cell with its negative 17:08:37 (because there are no negatives) 17:08:45 How about this 17:08:58 Everytime you increment a cell, a random sector of your HD is decremented 17:09:05 And vice-versa 17:09:10 lol 17:09:15 okay you could start with an initialization loop that fills a lot of cells with +128 but that would be reaaaaaally impractical 17:09:31 ahah 17:09:36 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:10:01 "Note: This interpreter must be run as root. Don't ask why. Just let it be." 17:10:19 write directly to /dev/sda 17:10:22 just because 17:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:10:34 make it default on suicide linux 17:10:40 Suicide Linux <3 17:13:36 it's hard to make a BF deriv that a) isn't stupid, and b) you can't trivially compile BF into 17:13:41 although not impossible 17:14:50 bf2d :p 17:15:48 ais523: well, replacing the tape with a single tape makes it equivalent to push-down automata, and therefore you can't compile bf into it 17:15:56 with a single stack 17:16:07 What if you replace the tape with a punch-card 17:16:14 Koen: yeah, BF-PDA 17:16:25 but that's not that interesting either IMO 17:16:33 I guess a Splinter→BF-PDA compiler could be interesting 17:16:50 if it's not interesting why does it have three or more pages on the wiki? 17:16:55 brainstack, stackfuck, etc 17:17:08 "stackstack" 17:17:41 brainqueue would be much more interesting 17:17:42 brstackck 17:17:55 QQ 17:21:34 if it's not interesting why does it have three or more pages on the wiki? ← because BF derivative 17:23:25 ha I like the BF-PDA page 17:23:34 "possible modifications" 17:23:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:24:00 aka "this is brainfuck with a stack, you got the general idea, do whatever you want with the details" 17:24:02 ais523: What's with the BF-derivative hate? =P 17:24:12 `pastlog brick.*brain 17:24:20 2011-11-09.txt:06:33:57: And delegate the brickbraining to me. 17:24:22 I think it's more like BF-derivative sadness 17:24:44 basically we'd like the esolangs to be more interesting than yet more pointless derivations of BF 17:24:56 there are some good ones (PaintFuck is a good one I didn't write) 17:25:00 but plenty more stupid ones 17:25:27 Ah, so it's a matter of them being unoriginal, then? 17:26:26 Roujo, phantom-hoover.tumblr.com 17:26:30 "there are some good ones, and also one good one I didn't write" 17:27:59 Koen: there's more than one good one I didn't write 17:28:08 but I thought that would be an amusing way to word the sentence 17:28:27 be reassured I was amused 17:30:14 ^^ 17:30:45 -!- augur has joined. 17:31:14 >It replaces part of boolfuck with words such as “derp” and “herp” 17:31:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kPRA0W1kECg 17:31:54 man this is cool 17:33:54 Phantom_Hoover: Quick sort is amazing 17:34:11 wait til you get to lsd radix 17:34:32 Merge sort sounds like good old computer sounds you hear in movies 17:35:18 Holy crap radix sort 17:37:26 bitonic is good too 17:39:08 What if we just sorted the actual bits? 17:39:19 Would it be quicker? 17:39:45 (Nevermind, that was a bad joke) 17:40:26 well basically it's a question of working out how many 1's there are in the input 17:40:58 It's more efficient to count the 0 bits 17:41:30 Why would it be more efficient? =P 17:42:20 -!- Bike has joined. 17:43:29 I have no idea what Bitonic sort is doing 17:43:40 Oh god 17:43:42 Bogosort 17:43:53 it's ~parallel~ and therefore crazy afaict 17:44:17 Awwww, they didn't let it finish D: 17:44:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:47:28 bogosort is so cute 17:48:05 It's not the worst algorithm I've heard of, though =P 17:48:17 There's also Intelligent Design Sort 17:48:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:48:53 I don't know who crystal-cola is, but I like them. proper LaTeX in their replies. 17:49:06 Oh, there we go: Miracle Sort 17:49:25 there's bogobogosort too 17:50:48 Intelligent Design Sort: The probability that the input list would be in the order it's in is 1/(n!). That probability is so small that the list *must* be that way for a reason. To try to sort the list further shows ignorance of the Sorter's ways. 17:50:53 Brb 17:51:57 @tell NihilistDandy can I extract some kind of biography from your person, so that you may be paraquoted? 17:52:03 Consider it noted. 17:55:37 -!- Bike has joined. 17:57:38 "New in version 3.2" "3.1.3-12+squeeze1" oh no 18:05:57 copumpkin: who are you? where do you come from? are you a living entity? what is the effect of capitalism on the growth of birch trees? 18:07:45 i'd say that effect is rather uneven 18:09:25 who knows. maybe there's a correlation between the two! (r² < 0.01) 18:11:41 r squared of negative zero 18:16:49 why did I /nicked myself groily... 18:16:55 Did you now? 18:16:58 I didn't see it 18:16:59 Gnarly. 18:17:00 I didn't see anything 18:17:12 It's been a while, really 18:17:28 there is some weird stuff going on in the disparate quotes... 18:23:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:30:55 Huh, sleepsort. Sounds nice enough. 18:31:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:33:12 hmm 18:33:23 insertion sort looks like it's using dichotomy to find where to insert the elements 18:33:31 is that a thing? dichotomy insertion sort 18:34:29 I have used insertion sort mainly when the data to sort isn't all available at once, it can do one at a time, sorting it into another buffer 18:34:46 I don't know about dichotomy insertion sort, though. 18:35:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:37:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:37:15 Koen: I don't know what a "dichotomy" means in that context, but if you mean it determines the insertion position with a binary search (over the already-sorted part), I think that's called "binary insertion sort". 18:37:25 okay 18:37:48 though such an insertion in an array sounds kinda dumb since you have to move everything anyway 18:38:05 Use a linked list! =D 18:38:08 and cutting a list in half usually isn't O(1) either 18:38:13 Doubly linked, too! 18:38:35 so I guess you'd need some kind of tree structure for that to be efficient 18:38:37 quintuply linked is the way to go 18:38:49 so it sounds like we just reinvented heap sort 18:38:49 Finding the spot to insert it in would be O(n), actually putting it in would be O(1) 18:38:57 Koen: It can be a good idea if the comparisons are expensive but swaps are not. (List of pointers to long strings or whatever.) 18:39:06 http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/master/tutorial-conditions.html#conditions these are pretty weird 18:39:10 Roujo: O(n) dichotomy doesn't sound very useful 18:39:21 they're like... dynamically bound delimited continuations? i don't even know 18:39:23 Oh, wait, you're doing a binary search 18:39:25 Even better! 18:39:41 fizzie: hmm I guess that makes sense 18:40:05 kmc: cool, it's like CL's. 18:40:31 CL has this? 18:40:42 does it work well? 18:41:11 A successfully trapped condition causes execution to continue at the site of the error, as though no error occurred. 18:41:13 interesting 18:41:40 basically when you "handle" a condition you install a type-function pair in the dynamic environment, and then when an error happens it looks through the dynamic environment to find a pair with the type of the error 18:41:57 so you can make a code that has "x / y" somewhere in it, and wrap it in a "try ... with Division_by_zero -> 3" and if y = 0 it will act as if x / y = 3 ? 18:42:04 "on error resume;" 18:42:07 it's really very useful, like for example, when i had an irc bot it would raise an "i don't understand this type of message" condition 18:42:20 and in my code i just had it handle that as ignore and continue and it worked great 18:42:20 I think all the quotes from anybody ever are currently covered. 18:42:33 "throw new IDontEvenException("wat");" 18:42:34 using an external irc library i didn't want to mess with, i mean 18:42:53 boily: Congrats! =) 18:43:02 Koen: i think so. 18:43:14 conditions freak me out a bit 18:43:17 they feel a little spaghetti 18:43:29 yeah they're easy to fuck up probably 18:43:29 "it's really very useful, like for example, when the key doesn't go in the lock I just have to force and it works great" 18:43:30 also they kinda break RT :P 18:43:36 rt? 18:43:44 thank goodness rust has like nine types of error handling apparently 18:44:07 referential transparency 18:44:17 Bike: just like haskell! i feel so at home 18:44:28 because (x / 0) is _|_ but then it's also 123 or 346534563456536 instead depending on the surrounding context 18:44:36 well, I guess you could just separate asynchronous exceptions out as a separate concern. 18:45:00 (btw is it me or did they drastically reduce the number of elements to sort when showing off particularly inefficient sorts?) 18:45:08 CL: (handler-case (/ 4 3) (division-by-zero () 3)) => 4/3, (handler-case (/ 4 0) (division-by-zero () 3)) => 3 18:45:13 i should probably learn how to use delimited continuations one day 18:45:14 Koen, yes 18:45:16 obviously 18:45:21 dittomc 18:45:37 kmc: have you used Cont? :P 18:45:44 in Haskell? yes 18:46:13 have you used Cont in Rust! 18:46:19 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:46:20 that's rust-factorial 18:46:26 :O 18:46:39 exponentially rustier for the hands-on ninja developer. 18:46:49 kmc: well, delimited continuations are just Cont, pretty much. 18:46:55 gnome sorts looks like it's trying to do insertion sort but the insertion is very approximative 18:47:14 elliott: this is my skeptical face 18:47:20 gnome sort is insertion crossed with bubble 18:47:25 haskell is the mother of all, kmc. 18:47:36 ContExample.hs [4K] 18:47:37 A sample shift/reset code in Haskell, in the Cont monad -- the monad for delimited control 18:47:38 bubble-insertion sort 18:47:47 reset :: Cont a a -> Cont w a 18:47:47 reset = return . runC 18:47:47 shift :: ((a -> w) -> Cont w w) -> Cont w a 18:47:47 -- for new mtl 2.x 18:47:47 shift f = cont (runC . f) 18:48:00 I don't have an Oleg face but I'd be using it if I did 18:48:09 Roujo: just had to merge some stuff and do minor corrections. please check the new PDF. 18:48:11 bitonic sort: merge sort except the merging part reshuffles the list 18:48:16 still have no idea wtf bitonic sort is 18:48:27 dymaxion sort 18:48:28 wasn't there something on page 34 with a tilde being incorrectly parsed? 18:48:32 oh, bitonic sort is awesome 18:48:33 `run fetch https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf 18:48:35 bash: fetch: command not found 18:48:41 `fetch https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf 18:48:41 it's one of the most parallelizable of sorting algorithms 18:48:46 2013-09-19 18:48:45 URL:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf [476823/476823] -> "wisdom.pdf" [1] 18:48:52 `cat wisdom.pdf 18:48:53 ​%PDF-1.5 \ % \ 2 0 obj << \ /Type /ObjStm \ /N 100 \ /First 798 \ /Length 1046 \ /Filter /FlateDecode \ >> \ stream \ xڅmo6S˟D.Euiv 18:49:03 boily: Looks like garbage. hth. 18:49:05 and it's pretty similar to mergesort in how it works 18:49:20 awwwwwwwwwww bogosort 18:49:29 wp just gives us this helpful diagram http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/BitonicSort1.svg 18:49:33 * boily slaps Roujo with a slightly damp soviet-era sorting algorithm 18:52:22 Bike: "While the jth record is being processed during a straight insertion sort, we compare its key with about j/2 of the previously sorted keys, on the average; -- [We can use a binary search.] This method is called /binary insertion/; it was mentioned by John Mauchly as early as 1964, in the first published discussion of computer sorting. The unfortunate difficulty with binary insertion is ... 18:52:28 ... that it solves only half of the problem; after we have found where record R_j is to be inserted, we still need to move about (1/2)j of the previously sorted records in order to make room for R_j, so the total running time is still essentially proportional to N^2." -- D. Knuth, /The Art of Computer Programming, Vol. 3, Sorting and Searching/. Second Edition, Addison-Wesley, 1998, chapter ... 18:52:35 ... 5.2.1, pp. 82. 18:52:41 Er. 18:52:44 Koan: ^ 18:52:53 Er. "Koen". 18:53:21 The comment was so long that I couldn't see the attribution line any more. (Don't know where the Bike came from.) 18:54:47 thanks 18:55:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:55:24 but then does he uses that to think "okay, we need a data structure that allows dichotomy search, but also has O(1) insertion? 18:55:41 and come up with some tree sort or something 18:55:46 does he use* 18:55:57 boily: This PDF won't load in my computer; do you have another file? 18:56:17 oh dear 18:57:15 zzo38: what pdf viewer are you using 18:57:21 oerjan: What 18:57:38 Roujo: the curse of zzo38's setup 18:58:19 Koen: No. After describing the two-way insertion sort (another trick), it continues with shellsort and other things. 18:58:37 I would recommend evince 18:58:51 Do you have a file other than PDF? 18:58:53 ohhhhhhhh silly me I thought "shellsort" stood for "the sort command in the shell" 18:59:00 at least it opens with evince 18:59:19 zzo38: how come? what's happening? 18:59:34 it opens with okular. 18:59:41 The other day, I generated a PDF file locally and tried to submit it to IEEE. and got a "this file could not be converted to PDF" error back. 18:59:46 zzo38: There's the original LaTeX file, if you want it 18:59:48 boily: i recommend sending him a dvi 19:00:07 Turns out the pdfTeX-1.40.13 I have here generates a PDF 1.5 file, while the pdfTeX-1.40.10 sticks to PDF 1.4, and that made all the difference. 19:00:08 The source file will do fine, since I am sure I can load that in any text editor. 19:00:13 zzo38: I'll send you the dvi, and if you want you can join the github repo. 19:00:22 Yes, a DVI will also work fine. 19:00:50 s/sticks/at work sticks/ 19:01:09 "I took the compiler less updated by, and that made all the difference" 19:01:47 zzo38: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.dvi 19:02:15 and if that doesn't work, I can make a PS. 19:03:55 Bike: "burma": ask bike 19:04:09 It is hereby asked 19:04:26 I have downloaded it, now I have to wait for it to load the fonts 19:04:28 -!- S1 has left. 19:04:57 you guys were very creative with having me put through incongruous latex loops... 19:05:09 all the horrors I had to commit... 19:05:24 (at least, there's a \photon{} somewhere.) 19:05:52 -!- S1 has joined. 19:06:00 `? LaTeX 19:06:02 LaTeX is \end{verbatim} \textbackslash textbackslash begin\textbackslash \{document\textbackslash \} 19:06:04 There you go 19:06:37 that one was an easily dodgeable open attempt at trying to make my Glorious Document not compile. 19:06:55 That wasn't the goal, no 19:06:55 Even the DVI doesn't work; dvitype crashed too 19:07:20 So did Yap and DVIOUT 19:08:04 \ldots{} \ldots{} \ldots{} 19:08:14 zzo38: just what kind of setup do you have??? 19:09:28 Roujo: the curse of zzo38's setup 19:09:32 boily: MiKTeX 19:09:46 AnotherTest: what do you want to know? 19:09:59 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 19:10:11 zzo38: what is your github account? 19:10:14 Koen: It does describe quite many variants of insertion sort, including the linked list insertion sort, and the tree-structured arrangement. ("This possibility was first explored about 1957 by D. J. Wheeler -- A similar but simpler tree-insertion scheme, using binary trees, was devised by C. M. Berners-Lee about 1958 -- Since the binary tree method and its refinements are quite important for ... 19:10:20 ... searching as well as sorting, they are discussed at length in Section 6.2.2".) The whole Shapter 5.2.1. ("Sorting by Insertion") is 26 pages long. 19:10:32 Shapter, yes. 19:10:58 boily: I don't have any. 19:11:02 the Shah Peter 19:11:04 Bike: I want to ask "burma" 19:11:07 I wrote "Chapter", then noticed it's called "Section" for references in the text itself, and somehow thought just changing the first letter was sufficient. 19:11:09 Oh. 19:11:14 You have done so. 19:12:43 zzo38: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.tar.bz2 19:13:52 C. M. Berners-Lee, any relation to Tim? 19:14:04 -!- Yonkie has joined. 19:15:06 oerjan: His father, I think. 19:15:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:15:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:15:34 hm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway_Berners-Lee has no M 19:15:39 zzo38: I hope downloading the sources didn't make your machine crash... 19:15:44 oerjan: See the External Links section. 19:16:06 boily: It didn't crash (although I haven't extracted the archive yet). 19:16:12 -!- S1 has joined. 19:16:40 heap sort is kinda twisted - we're gonna take the elements from the array to put them in a tree, then take the elements from the tree to put them back in the array - except the tree is stored in the array, so're basically we're completely reorganizing the array into a still-not-sorted-but-with-some-logic-you-cant-see-yet array that will be easier to sort in the future 19:16:51 oerjan: (Well, all the "C. M. Berners-Lee" references. I don't know what the M stands for.) 19:17:05 hm right 19:17:20 boily: Most of the files have strange filename and other things probably not needed so I only extracted the *.tex files; those ones will load fine in a text editor. 19:17:32 Besides... Is there still interest in a programm that's fed with program code and determines the language(s) the code is written in? Cause I've got a concept. 19:17:37 Conway Middlename 19:18:15 S1: probably. Could be useful 19:18:33 S1: OK, although such thing wouldn't always work 19:18:43 It can work sometimes, though. 19:18:47 It might be worth a try. 19:19:07 then you can add it to google translate 19:19:15 "The marriage of Conway M Berners-Lee and Mary L Woods is registered at Hampstead, Middlesex 3rd quarter 1954 vol 5c page 1925 --" it seems a mystery, lots of references but none mentioning the expansion. 19:19:20 I'm sure it's listed *somewhere*. 19:19:21 "Google Code Translate" 19:20:02 zzo38: you only need the .tex files to compile the stuff. the source/ folder is a local copy of the wisdom DB. README.md is a readme. 19:20:04 Some programming languages can even vary their syntax, such as Forth and TeX 19:20:18 "http://sprunge.us/bXPJ Tim talks of his parents. 19:20:26 Disregard the ". 19:20:56 boily: Well, yes I have only extracted the *.tex so it is OK, but of course to compile it, I would also need LaTeX and all of the packages and fonts you used. I can just read it in the text editor it is fine, though. 19:21:33 zzo38: it is a fact. 19:22:04 By now, just `pastequotes? =P 19:22:27 Oh wait, boily added more than just the quotes. Nevermind ^^ 19:22:55 I added EVERYTHING! 19:25:03 bright green is a little bit to light, imho... 19:25:25 A little bit is lightable enough, isn't it? 19:25:56 s/to/too/, says I. 19:26:08 s/too/to/g, no u 19:26:15 and now I'm stuck with a Supertramp piece in my head. 19:26:34 (“give a little bit... ♪”) 19:27:13 woah. the phở uses the right font. I... don't know how it happened. 19:29:31 I think there might be a few duplicates? (Or maybe I am wrong) 19:29:47 ais523: in splinter, if a capital letter is followed by '{', then it's the store-to-splinter instruction, and if it's not followed by '{', then it's the push-splinter-to-program instruction? 19:29:48 Should you change "Plain TeX" into "Plain \TeX" to print using the TeX logo? 19:30:26 Koen: yes 19:30:45 I think, anyway 19:30:46 okay thanks 19:30:50 Okay then if anyone is still interested in the Esolang identifier concept I made: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11001067/EsolangIdentifier%20Concept.txt 19:30:54 haven't Splintered for ages 19:31:15 [insert turtles joke] 19:31:45 zzo38: the duplicates are a conscious decision. if multiple people locute a quote, then I put it under each relevant section. 19:32:01 boily: Ah, OK. 19:32:22 but yeah, I'll \TeXify the references to Plain TeX. 19:32:47 `complain \TeX isn't used-- oh, nevermind 19:32:49 Complaint filed. Thank you. 19:32:58 `slist Terezi sniffs out a conspiracty 19:33:00 slist Terezi sniffs out a conspiracty: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 19:33:11 S1: how about first trying to identify if keywords are actually words ("if", "while", etc.) or rather single-char ops (like brainfuck) and then moving on to identifying them? 19:33:53 for what? 19:34:06 I mean... 19:34:12 Koen: for what? ;) 19:34:24 well if keywords are actually words then you can split the program into tokens according to whitespace 19:34:29 What does `slist do? 19:34:32 `help slist 19:34:32 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:34:36 >nope 19:34:39 but if you're parsing befunge then every char is a token 19:35:16 `? slist 19:35:18 Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck. 19:35:42 What happens if you are using \verb! to quote something that contains a exclamation mark? 19:36:16 `? list 19:36:17 list? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:36:18 | 19:36:18 º¯`\o 19:36:39 Koen: I don't differ between single-char keywords and multi-char keywords. There could be a language someday (or with high probability already is) that does so, too. 19:36:40 the `? list is dead? 19:36:44 `learn list is a fun program that HackEgo has! Run it with `list and join the fun! 19:36:49 I knew that. 19:36:50 zzo38: I use \verb+...+. 19:37:02 boily: O, OK. 19:37:19 Koen: Whitespace has to be detected properly, too. I would not split anything. 19:37:23 ~echo Hats 19:37:24 Hats 19:37:29 ~echo `list 19:37:29 `list 19:37:31 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 19:37:43 There we go! Bots can have fun too! 19:37:55 Koen: And maybe some keywords even overlap... Like for example in a polyglot 19:38:14 zzo38: I'm having some problems with overfull hboxen, but nothing impossible to resolve. 19:38:21 S1: well I can think of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Alight which is especially weird to parse 19:38:21 "hello world" is a perfectly valid brainfuck program 19:38:41 boily: Well, I know how I can fix these things in Plain TeX, not in LaTeX though 19:39:20 I think it's generally impossible to do perfect language detection, due to polyglots. Unless it reported all of the languages of course. 19:39:55 AnotherTest: Yes, that is one reason; there are also programming languages with varying syntax, programming languages that accept any input file, and other things. 19:40:05 Taneb: "your mama" is a perfectly valid brainfuck program 19:40:35 btw this is my first your mama joke ever 19:40:53 Koen: “Taneb: "your mama" is a perfectly valid brainfuck program” is a perfectly valid reason to make you choke on a ballistic bowl of gaszszszpascho. 19:41:03 Yes, any file without unbalanced square brackets is a valid brainfuck program. 19:41:10 Oh yes 19:41:16 try to do it with snowflake! 19:41:20 zzo38, any text file, at least 19:41:30 well, I guess that doesn't apply :( 19:41:36 snowflake's syntax doesn't change 19:41:51 that's a pity 19:42:03 what if the program is in emmental or mascarpone and the syntax evolves to have bits in every language in the wiki 19:43:16 Koen: uh shit... well I hope that 1) there are at least some keywords in that language written horizontal. 2) the programmer is intelligent enough to recognize a 2D language -_- 19:43:35 I hadn't thought about option 2 19:43:55 I don't know who crystal-cola is, but I like them. proper LaTeX in their replies. 19:44:07 crystal-cola has gone by many nicks. 19:44:51 * boily swears in Québécois 19:45:01 oerjan: who are they, then? 19:45:30 a mystery. not here at present. last time was as katla. 19:46:04 the unusual thing about last time is that e _didn't_ explode violently before leaving afair. 19:46:07 boily, that's like wiping your arse with a silk hangman's rope 19:46:46 Did you look at the recent CGA Collection? Do you like to write a review of it that fits in one line of the wisdom file? 19:47:15 ~duck CGA Collection 19:47:15 --- No relevant information 19:47:28 boily: j-invariant is probably also in the quotes file. 19:47:39 zzo38: what is the CGA Collection? 19:48:02 boily: It is a collection of public domain computer games for DOS computers. 19:48:05 oerjan: I... think I saw some of their quotes in there. peek at the last section ↑ 19:48:20 http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/CGACOLL.ZIP You can download the source-codes, executables, and documentation. 19:49:24 oerjan: let me guess. j-invariant is someone else. 19:49:37 zzo38: perusing that in a few minutes... I'm reformatting Taneb. 19:49:49 Oh dear 19:52:44 This ZIP file will fit on a single 3.5" floppy disk. 19:53:12 zzo38: does it need to be double density? 19:53:57 Taneb: you are all nice and shiny, now. 19:54:00 kmc: I haven't checked, but a 1.44MB high density disk works. 19:54:12 :D 19:54:13 zzo38: does it work in qemu? 19:54:57 (or probably dosbox) 19:55:05 boily: I have not tried, but if it has DOS then I expect it to work. 19:55:25 try to do it with snowflake! <-- itym emmental 19:55:40 `quote fall in love 19:55:41 558) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 578) 678) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love 187) Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. what whaaaaaaaaaaaat 19:55:53 I can remember the context for that! 19:55:58 Do tell =P 19:56:38 boily: j-invariant = crystal-cola 19:56:39 Roujo, I named all my Pokemon after people in the channel 19:56:55 Nice 19:56:56 An opponent used "attract" on the one named for Gregor 19:57:02 zzo38: it works! 19:57:19 boily: OK. Do you like this? 19:57:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:57:33 I like it! 19:57:59 I can play sokoban! 19:58:07 Tell me if you made up any new levels for any of these games, too. Or even, to make up new games in QBASIC to add onto this CGA Collection! 19:59:28 THERE IS SOUND! ☺♪ 19:59:29 There are two games mentioned in the documentation but which aren't yet completed enough to include in this CGA Collection; eventually it will be, though. 20:00:36 Yes, I wrote the music for these games using the MML. 20:01:30 -!- augur has joined. 20:01:45 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:01:48 The music for the "SKEDALS" game is in Bohlen-Pierce, though. Most of them use ordinary 12-TET, however. 20:04:21 boily: Do you liket he other game too? Which ones did you try so far? 20:05:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:06:07 zzo38: well, I can't really try them right now, as I'm at work. 20:06:30 (yes, the PDF is part of my work. it's a periodic pause.) 20:06:35 boily: OK, try later perhaps, or someone try 20:06:53 the files are there, tempting me with their sexy lo-res bits. 20:13:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:17:04 pixellization fetish 20:18:33 kmc: I'm a japanophile. what else did you expect? 20:19:02 So can you play Japanese mahjong then? 20:19:14 `run cat japan >> boily 20:19:21 He plays Shogi, so yes? 20:19:25 Ish? 20:19:26 45-lines ocaml splinter interpreter working 20:19:46 zzo38: I'm in a japanese mahjong club. we play every two Sundays. 20:19:54 do androids dream of the fisherman's wife 20:19:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:20:20 task for next week: splinter to bf-pda 20:20:30 Roujo: come play mahjong with us :D 20:20:44 Can you play Washizu mahjong? 20:21:10 What rule variants do you use when playing mahjong? 20:21:19 OH 20:21:20 Right 20:21:29 Not-Solitaire Mahjong 20:21:42 Please forgive my mindblank >_> 20:22:06 zzo38: I played classic chinese at first, but now I exclusively play riichi. some members play hong kong (I should learn the rules some time). 20:22:36 zzo38: concerning variations in a single style, we don't apply kuitan nashi, we use kuikae, and sometimes play with yakitori. we never use uma, though. 20:22:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:22:50 boily: We never even met yet. Mahjong might be a little too... forward? 20:23:06 Come by my apartment on Saturday and we'll talk about it 20:23:10 Roujo: enwéye don, viens faire un tour! on mord pas! (la plupart du temps) 20:23:34 I don't like kuitan nashi either; I play kuitan ari, but don't use yakitori 20:24:01 kuitan nashi is for... uhm... Roujo, how would you translate «moumoune» in English? 20:24:04 isn't yakitori a way of cooking chicken 20:24:11 kmc: also. 20:24:27 boily: "Chicken" 20:24:28 kmc: Yes, but in mahjong it is penalty for someone who never wins a single hand during the game 20:24:32 zzo38: yakitori is rough on the nerves. it makes the game very stressful. 20:25:05 zzo38: uhm, if I may correct you, yakitori is a game of chicken where you have to declare riichi at least once during East and South. 20:25:32 (and if all four players have called riichi, it resets) 20:25:43 Roujo: thanks. 20:25:48 boily: That is a different kind of yakitori game then 20:26:00 zzo38: let me check, just to be sure... 20:26:04 boily: What happen in case of no-ten riichi? 20:26:41 I have made up a few variants, though, even. One is that menzenchintsumo counts 1 han toward the requirement for winning but it doesn't score 1 han; another is that ippatsu doesn't count for self-drawn. 20:26:50 zzo38: ah. wikipédia points to your yakitori. 20:27:24 zzo38: in no-ten riichi, you hope somebody else wins. if you get to an exhaustive hand, you *have* to show your hand, and then it's chombo. 20:28:07 Yes, I know it is chombo, but does it cancel the yakitori counter in your kind of yakitori game when that happens? 20:28:24 I can't tell if you guys are pulling a Mornington Crescent or not 20:28:35 zzo38: menzen tsumo is just like any other yaku. ippatsu on a tsumo is just dramatic and fun :D (did it last sunday. it was completely undeserved, made me score a haneman as oya. it was grandiose!) 20:28:50 Roujo: me either 20:28:55 zzo38: eeeeeeeeeh... we never had that scenario happen. 20:29:06 also that is a perfect way to describe the sense of confusion 20:29:07 Roujo: honestly, everything you see here is real mahjong. 20:29:16 zzo38: do you ever play Mornington Crescent? 20:29:35 kmc: No, but I do have a map of the London Underground. 20:29:36 I play Berri-UQAM with my SO, if that counts 20:29:53 zzo38: I'll have to ask our expert player next time. that point is very interesting. 20:29:58 Roujo: ha ha ha! 20:30:41 It's fun! 20:30:54 Especially with the Special AMT Extension rules 20:32:32 zzo38: my favourite yaku combo is the Infamous Men Tan Pin (tsumo, tan'yao, pinfu), nicknamed the «Anyway en tout cas bin là» here (quote mash-up from a bad movie). 20:33:11 zzo38: plug in a riichi, pile up the dora, and get a ludicrous amount of points from your disgruntled opponents. 20:34:07 Roujo: is the Montmorency/Cartier transition valid, or do you stop at Concorde when doing a double-lateral? 20:34:30 Other things I eliminate are the "all green", and the bonuses for first-turn stuff. I also allow players to declare riichi even if your score is negative. 20:35:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:35:47 I can't tell if you guys are pulling a Mornington Crescent or not <-- zzo38 is the last person in the channel i'd suspect of doing that. 20:35:54 zzo38: all green is epic. a girl did that with suankō during a tournament, while oya. 96000 points. 20:36:17 zzo38: also, when a player is bankrupt, it ends the game. if you don't have at least a thousand left, no riichi. 20:36:41 zzo38: my bro actively tries to achieve tenhō. hasn't worked yet :P 20:36:46 boily: You are playing dobon, then. 20:36:58 boily: And how can you actively try to achieve tenhou? 20:37:05 zzo38: yup. I did that last Sunday on a chombo :D 20:37:17 (I was furiten, and called ron.) 20:37:26 zzo38: ask Pouti. 20:37:45 Roujo: comment t'avais fait la dernière fois pour réussir à faire que le Pouti s'en vienne sur le channel? 20:38:26 I just play that when calling ron when furiten or otherwise an invalid win, you have to expose your tiles but then you can put them back up and the game continues normally. If you make incorrect calls too often then you may be disqualified (except for no-ten riichi) 20:39:56 in games between regular members, it's chombo, and that's it. it seems harsh at first, but nobody really minds. 20:40:08 when playing with my friends from Québec City, it's much more lenient. 20:40:19 (and when alcohol is involved, screw penalties.) 20:41:33 To simplify it a bit, I also ignore the fu, and just treat it as always 25 fu, so that there is no rounding (some players use 30 fu, but this results in rounding); this also results pinfu slightly different, more like the "All Chow Game" in the Singapore game 20:42:13 To me the rounding is considered a bit unfair. 20:42:22 boily: Je lui ai demandé de se pointer sur FB? =P 20:42:49 boily: Also, yeah, Montmorency/Cartier is alright, it's just... weird. I've never seen it work. >_> 20:42:55 the most common hands lie on the 30 fu line, so you get to know the points by heart. otherwise, it's 40 fu. very rarely you get an interesting hand at 50. 20:43:01 Roujo: logically. 20:43:08 But yeah, it's legal 20:44:31 Roujo: it works in weird tournament matches between 3 players, but only if the Drapeau handicap is applied to an out-of-town visitor. I think they changed the limits to Longueuil in 2006 for that, otherwise there were too many corner cases left. 20:44:38 boily: Yes, OK, but I do use many variations of the rules, like I have said; it is the game I prefer anyways 20:44:56 zzo38: do you plan to visit Montréal in the foreseeable future? 20:45:16 boily: No, I currently have no such plan. 20:45:28 zzo38: :( 20:46:31 that means I'll have to cross the Great Puddle some day if I want to match you. 20:47:13 Maybe I will go over there in some day, but I don't expect so. 20:48:21 we could meet in the middle. 20:48:26 boily: Ah, I wouldn't know. My SO is the only one I play with =/ 20:48:55 I still prefer the Japanese game over the other mahjong games, though! 20:49:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:49:06 boily: Do you sometimes play Washizu mahjong? 20:49:30 zzo38: no. I am subject to vasovagal responses when my blood is involved. 20:49:49 You can play without your blood if you want to, as long as you have some way to keep track of hit points 20:50:48 boily: I have a friend like that. 20:50:55 Well, blood in general, really 20:51:01 He's hemophobic 20:51:20 [16:48:21] we could meet in the middle. 20:51:22 Good plan 20:51:25 Tell me how that goes 20:51:33 other's people blood I have no problem with. I just really prefer that mine stays inside my body, thank you very much. 20:51:38 The "Akagi DS" game includes a mode for Washizu mahjong and I play that game. 20:51:53 I wonder if there is mahjong yet on the Ouya... 20:53:16 You are allowed to look at your partner's tiles, and communication with them freely, and oka and uma does count. 20:53:37 Roujo: there was that collecte organised by héma-québec at the cégep one time. I went by and was like: “Hey, I should try that. I got two hours to kill”. bad idea. 20:53:40 (The uma really does add another aspect to Washizu mahjong.) 20:53:56 boily: Did you die? D: 20:54:08 Roujo: it felt like dying, but I don't think so. 20:54:55 Roujo: I was fine up to the point where I was pierced and plugged to the machine. a few seconds later, reboot. 20:55:12 Usually the leaders are in first and second place, but I have once won with Washizu in last place, giving me a lot of uma bonus. 20:55:28 boily: what's the Great Puddle? 20:55:29 you wake up shaking, shivering, sweating, your hands are prickly, you are hungry, you are nauseous, you want to pee... 20:55:35 oerjan: the Atlantic Ocean. 20:55:42 oerjan: the Authentic Ocean 20:55:55 zzo38: uma is nasty and perverse :p 20:56:35 boily: In an ordinary game with four players playing by themself, yes, but in Washizu mahjong with the team format it uses, I like it. 20:57:37 Roujo: also, my blood pressure was unstable, and my heart was beating some eldritch morse message. 20:57:53 boily: i think you will find that zzo38s in the mirror are closer than they appear. 20:58:10 in fact, you should know that already, having read the quotes 20:58:23 boily: Sounds like a party to me 20:58:36 boily: Are you good at morse code? 20:58:48 oerjan: right. I just assume that people are in Hexham by default, and forgot that zzo38 is from BC. 20:58:56 zzo38: sorry about that. 20:58:59 good default. 20:59:04 zzo38: uhm, somewhat. 21:00:06 Roujo: maybe I should become a Super Serial Killer, with my secret weakness being my own blood. 21:01:04 boily: zzo38's user page on Wikipedia would tell you that much 21:01:04 .... .- ... - ..- .-. .... .- ... - ..- .-. .... .- ... - ..- .-. 21:01:07 And much, much more 21:01:08 so you have no powers while you're alive? 21:01:12 actually that sounds sweet 21:01:54 In the Akagi DS game, after each hanchan, oka and uma are counted, and then you compare the final scores of the leader of both teams; however has less, loses however many hit-points is the differences. 21:01:57 oerjan: nice try :p 21:02:16 zzo38: yowch. 21:02:45 (The scores of the supporters are not used, except to calculate oka and uma.) 21:03:50 Any time during the game that one leader pays the other, the payer also loses that number of hit-points, too. 21:04:39 .... . -..- - ..- .-. 21:04:46 -.- 21:05:23 Winning off of the last card seems to be much more common in Washizu mahjong, than in the ordinary game. 21:06:27 zzo38: what kind of map of the Underground do you have, and what do you use it for? 21:07:03 kmc: Currently, I do not use it for anything. Someone who was there had it when coming back to Canada, and since he didn't need it anymore he gave it to me. 21:07:50 zzo38: I can't remember any occurence of haitei happening in any game I played. 21:08:28 boily: Except in Washizu mahjong, it hasn't happened to me either. 21:10:35 makes sense 21:10:58 zzo38: it's a nice map, don't you think 21:11:12 kmc: Yes. 21:11:31 too bad the Circle line isn't a circle anymore :( 21:12:25 also it stops at Edgware Road twice, which is confusing 21:12:48 there are two stations named Edgware Road and the Circle Line stops at one of them twice and the other not at all 21:13:14 We're getting the "drop [as in, raindrop] line", it has this shape: http://portal.liikennevirasto.fi/portal/page/portal/f/hankkeet/suunnitteilla/pisara/pisara_kartta_0.jpg 21:13:31 oh well, the NYC subway system has like 50 station names that are reused 21:13:48 fizzie: heh 21:14:33 Apparently it's just called "Helsinki City Rail Loop" in English, but the Finnish name refers to a teardrop shape. 21:14:42 I think ippatsu is usually played to not count toward the han requirement to win (in Akagi DS it is like this); I prefer that it does count, unless the discarder is on the same team in which case it still scores but doesn't count toward requirement. 21:15:09 ah neat 21:16:11 running the commuter trains in a loop through the city center, to free up capacity at the main terminal for long distance trains 21:16:23 zzo38: ippatsu depends on a riichi anyway. in washizu you can ippatsu without that? 21:17:29 boily: No, I mean when you need 2 han to win if the oya wins five times 21:17:45 fizzie: there should be a high speed rail tunnel to Tallinn, don't you think 21:18:34 zzo38: oh. right. good catch, here. 21:21:28 `quote bathroom interior 21:21:29 887) GreyKnight: for instance, you can form a poset category from a bunch of tiles oh, that's why somebody was conflating category theory with bathroom interior design the other day :-D 21:21:51 I still think Wang Tiles would look good in a bathroom 21:21:59 kmc: I do think that. (I also think people have made plans for it, but that's about all.) 21:24:47 Roujo: some day, we'll have a nice train from Québec City up to Windsor... 21:25:23 http://www.euregio-heltal.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Hel-Tal-rail-connection-prefeasibility-study_ETI-ASIC_110708.doc-NeoOffice-Writer.pdf and so on. 21:27:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *sound of a turtle flying in a storm*). 21:27:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:09 the boat is pretty nice though 21:29:13 honestly it might matter more for freight 21:29:36 It's also the general "there should be more trains" principle. 21:29:41 yes 21:29:50 "If it's empty, fill it with trains," as the saying goes. 21:30:12 My wife's brother 3D-printed a train at the library the other day. 21:30:15 that document doesn't say much about the gauge issue 21:30:23 nice! they have 3D printers at the library? 21:30:49 Not in any sort of generally-available-in-many-places way, just in the one at Tapiola and perhaps a couple of other places. 21:30:57 cool 21:31:05 we have one at work, but I haven't used it yet 21:31:32 ~metar EGNT 21:31:42 nooooooooo 21:31:46 It also costs zero moneys at Tapiola, I believe. 21:31:56 They're so slow the material costs aren't that high. :p 21:32:15 haha 21:32:19 Rail Baltica will be standard gauge 21:32:31 will / would 21:32:51 (It's a MiniFactory v2.0 -- http://www.minifactory.fi/en/ -- that's some sort of Finnish product.) 21:33:48 cool 21:34:08 * kmc is briefly confused by a country labeled "Somija" on a map of the Baltic region 21:35:26 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:36:15 Also the "Glass Palace" (there's not all that much glass in it, but that's what it's called) right in the city centre has this placed called "meeting place" administered by the Helsinki regional library system, that's the other place they've got 3D printers (another miniFactory and an Ultimaker) in. Seems that a single 3D "printout" costs 0.40 EUR -- the same as a regular paper printout -- there. 21:36:46 From what I've heard, the machines at Tapiola are rather regularly broken. 3D printing doesn't quite seem to have matured all the way yet. 21:37:24 (On the other hand, regular printers still paper jam all the time too, so... But it's usually less of a mess to unjam.) 21:37:27 indeed 21:37:39 I don't know how often the really expensive professional grade printers break 21:37:42 probably still a fair bit 21:37:50 -!- Jafet has joined. 21:44:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:07:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:10:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:25:39 -!- augur has joined. 22:26:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:31:03 -!- shachaf has left. 22:46:36 MEANWHILE IN, uh, REDDIT: http://www.reddit.com/r/EDC 22:47:23 -!- Fiora has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:47:25 searches "/F/", finds no hits 22:47:33 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:47:41 -!- Fiora has joined. 22:48:23 /F/? 22:48:35 -!- kmc has joined. 22:48:52 as in, people are identifying themselves with 22/M/Canada and so on 22:49:28 sfw? 22:49:30 haha 22:49:32 yes 22:49:46 EDC stands for 'everyday carry' 22:49:57 23/m/mo, asl? 22:50:10 obviously most of them carry knives 22:50:43 ah, this is distinct from the porn reddit convention of putting [m] or [f] etc in the title 22:50:51 ... not like I would have any way of knowing about that 22:51:06 there's an F on the second page! she does not carry a knife 22:51:50 I have every confidence that kmc does not know about porn. 22:52:04 `? porn 22:52:06 porn? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:52:07 | 22:52:07 o/`¯º 22:52:52 `? porn e2 to e4 22:52:54 porn e2 to e4? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:52:55 | 22:52:55 º¯`\o 22:52:57 `learn porn e2 to e4 22:53:02 I knew that. 22:53:24 http://i.imgur.com/kEwEVfE.jpg 22:53:46 me too, redditor 22:53:57 only leave the house with... god that is one stubby revolver 22:54:11 are you supposed to like punch people with it 22:54:22 i checked the comments; the people asking "why the fuck do you need four knives, a gun and two dozen bullets" are all downvoted 22:54:28 Akagi did once make a haitei on purpose (in a game that isn't Washizu mahjong, and isn't teams), and being the only yaku. 22:54:41 Bike, you use it to hammer the knives in 22:54:58 Phantom_Hoover: haha wow, link to the comments? 22:55:01 if you run out of ammo with your first knife you have to use the second 22:55:03 flawless plan 22:55:07 http://www.reddit.com/r/EDC/comments/1mji11/21m_microholic/ 22:55:24 put the bullets on the knifes then the knifes in the gun 22:55:56 put the knives on the bullets and shoot knives 22:56:06 "Not trying to hate but what is your purpose for each knife? Is one for cutting tape/boxes, another for defense? How do you carry them (pockets using clip, sheath on belt, in a backpack)?" "I use any of em for the job at hand" 22:56:16 pretty sure this guy is a professional killer. 22:56:30 nah he uses hunt and peck typing but REALLY hunts 22:56:32 well suppose he's cutting something and one of the knives gets stuck 22:57:10 catastrophic 22:57:18 "I like options and having several knives gives me options." 22:57:30 I don't think he could sound more ominous if he tried 22:57:41 several knife related options 22:57:46 "An don't get into the whole switchblades are illegal thing. They aren't where I live and if they were I honestly don't care." 22:58:01 your average idiot just shrugs at this point and, at best, goes home to get another knife and gets shanked along the way after he uses all his bullets on the thirty-odd muggers coming at him 22:58:37 reddit is scary 22:58:48 wow the FAQ only has one question and the question is "Why are you carrying a gun/knife/etc?" 22:59:05 "I want more than five shots available to me." 23:00:42 elliott: someone who needs lots of shots, maybe it's a bartender? 23:01:09 just shoots all his patrons 23:01:29 "two shots and four knives, please" 23:01:33 5 years later "oh shit was THAT what they were asking for?" 23:02:18 "And the reason I don't always carry te glock is because I'm a smaller guy and the glock is a little big." 23:02:44 so does he carry both guns when he feels like having it along or does he at least leave the revolver behind 23:02:55 probably both, more options? 23:03:15 He should get a gun that shoots smaller guns. 23:03:40 or a portable 3d printer loaded with gun templates 23:03:56 "Security in this office park is a joke. Last year, I came to work with my spud gun in a duffel bag. I sat at my desk all day, with a rifle that shoots potatoes at 60 pounds per square inch. Can you imagine if I was deranged?" 23:04:45 i had to google to make sure that wasn't a serious gun control analogy 23:07:04 some nut with a gun complaining about nuts with guns getting into his office? 23:07:20 potatoes, not nuts 23:10:30 haha wow this was the second submission after: http://i.imgur.com/aHZklek.jpg 23:11:20 "if i'm going to carry things they'd better either be for killing people, or finding more people to kill" 23:15:22 Is that knife connected with some string to another knife? 23:15:52 Do you need a lot of guns to kill people? Isn't one sufficient? 23:16:00 yes 23:16:01 yes it is 23:16:03 Why do you need to find people to kill anyways? 23:16:30 the second knife is there to cut the first knife free from it 23:17:00 I was thinking knife-chucks. 23:17:57 you can garotte an unaware mugger whilst also stabbing him in two different places 23:21:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/EDC/comments/1mjrh6/remember_that_kickstarter_for_pens_that_was/ 23:21:31 oh god is this one of those pens we were mocking 23:22:37 yes it does look like a vibrator 23:23:09 "It feels... just so good, you guys." 23:23:11 disappointing that it isn't actually one, really 23:23:13 I'm sure it does. 23:23:58 It feels "airtight" and "well-machined" too, if you catch my drift. 23:24:00 i still can't believe they don't realise they're not even paying for a pen, they're paying for an aluminium cylinder with a hole in one end 23:24:24 fizzie: could be trouble 23:29:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/EDC/comments/1mfa5p/help_me_figure_out_how_to_carry_some_combination/ 23:30:09 i can think of one big redundancy you could cut back on 23:31:34 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:32:07 "get rid of the car and phone and you can pack two or three more knives in your pockets" 23:32:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:32:36 oh, and get a combination knife/lighter 23:39:01 -!- Bike has joined. 23:41:25 cut a hole in some suitable part of your flesh, put a knife in it 23:42:17 some fucker tries to stab you? they have simply upped your knife count 23:42:45 #lifehack 23:53:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:56:13 http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/stop-using-nsa-influence-code-in-our-product-rsa-tells-customers/ o_O 23:56:20 RSA was using DUAL_EC_DBRG @_@ 23:56:57 gosh, is "everyone using dual_ec_dbrg" going to turn out to match "list of companies that were ordered around by the NSA" -_- 23:57:51 wanna hear a joke? 23:57:54 america 23:59:14 i thought rsa was just the algorithm 23:59:46 yeah what's "rsa" mean here 2013-09-20: 00:00:18 sorry, I meant the company ^^; 00:00:21 the one that makes the keyfobs and stuff 00:00:23 Oh, a company. Founded by the people in RSA. 00:01:09 "the deliberately crippled pseudo random number generator (PRNG), which is so weak that it undermines the security of most or all cryptography systems that use it" wow, things have escalated. 00:01:26 you saw that NIST also disowned it, right? 00:01:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:01:43 yeah 00:01:46 "McAfee representatives issued a statement that confirmed the McAfee Firewall Enterprise Control Center 5.3.1 supported the Dual_EC_DRBG, but only when deployed in federal government or government contractor customer environments, where this FIPS certification has recommended it" bahahaha 00:01:53 xD 00:01:58 good job nsa, you got YOUR OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT to use your FUCKING BROKEN hack 00:02:01 thanks douchebags 00:02:08 maybe the NSA wanted to spy on other parts of the government? 00:02:11 http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html is a really great detailed writeup 00:02:13 I mean, like, that's a thing spy agencies do, right 00:02:21 they spy on each other 00:02:25 like this big incestuous family thing 00:02:29 yes but they're 00:02:30 yeah intelligence agencies tend to become autonomous terrorist cells rather than anything that's accountable to either government or citizens 00:02:33 supposed to spy on other ones! 00:02:37 but... yeah what kmc said. 00:03:02 but i mean even disregarding that, crippling government security is kind of the opposite of even the nsa's supposed mission to do literally the exact opposite of that. 00:03:09 the stratfor handbook has an entry on the nsa 00:03:19 oh yeah? what's it say 00:03:36 "they're completely out of control, and so compartmentalised that nobody actually knows what anyone else is doing" 00:03:44 welp 00:04:04 at least they are just breaking crypto and not kidnapping people to give them LSD just to see what happens 00:04:17 "The length of time that Dual_EC_DRBG takes can be seen as a virtue: it also slows down an attacker trying to guess the seed" lol 00:04:44 Bike: it only compromises the government's security if you're the NSA though? at least in theory 00:05:03 so for the NSA it's just plain a good thing if they get anyone at all to use it ever 00:05:03 yes, a very stupid theory that goes against every cryptographic practice. 00:05:10 which, i mean, is what they were thinking, i'm sure. 00:05:23 er. what i'm saying is they're incompetent. 00:05:42 I think they're actually turning out to be kind of disturbingly competent 00:06:09 eh, doesn't really matter if your compromised rng is obviously shitty if you can pressure people who don't understand that into using it 00:06:21 It's like the CIA. They're disturbingly competent at some things (e.g. kidnapping) and worse at others (e.g. not making half the world hate the united states) 00:06:51 Anyway. Anyone here used davfs2? 00:06:53 Phantom_Hoover: well, the thing is that even the NSA probably doesn't want the rest of the world to be able to break the US government's encryption. just them. 00:07:19 that is a point 00:08:02 Indeed, half the mission of the NSA is making it so that US communications can't be cracked. 00:08:04 I mean intelligence agencies seem to have this thing where they're pretty great at the microscale of their job but then use it to just fuck everything over constantly. 00:08:35 Like, the CIA ran the opium trade in the Pacific for a while. I'm sure they did it very well! But the problem with that is that they ran an opium trade 00:08:50 Turns out that a lack of oversight is bad. 00:08:56 Sorry, this just really, really irritates me. 00:09:13 I think the CIA just likes having fun. 00:09:31 elliott: And money. 00:09:36 like, hey we should go install a new government in some random country today! hey we should try out this whole drug trade thing! life's an adventure! 00:09:39 Opium trading is a great source of income. 00:09:47 worked for the british 00:11:06 just cause 2 is actually a documentary 00:11:12 laughing @ idea of cheery cia agent saying "life's an adventure!" to a bunch of filipino muslims he's torturing 00:21:52 that's the vibe I'm going for, yeah 00:24:33 i've heard a story that the cia faked a vampire attack in mindanao once, so, that works 00:26:31 black comedy set in the CIA in the 60s 00:26:32 do it 00:26:53 that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove 00:27:06 maybe 00:30:10 I think I've gone like seven years wanting to see Dr. Strangelove without actually doing it. I'm great. I'm the best 00:33:07 do it 00:33:38 do it 00:34:13 thanks, I never thought of that before 00:35:08 davfs2 is great 00:35:21 ls tells me what are the files are but then because of the fucked configuration i can't access them 00:35:39 and so cp, which just uses usual cp instead of dav's copy, can't do shit even though i can over dav 00:36:54 (it will probably actually be great once the IT nerds unfuck themselves) 00:40:44 nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrds 00:47:03 In Dungeons&Dragons game, I sometimes teleport without knowing where I am going, and ending up frightening the people who are in there, if any. (In ifMUD, I have set a olounge teleport message to "suddenly appears in the middle of the room in an instant, frightening (or almost frightening) a few people..." partially for that reason.) 00:47:35 Do you like this kind of messages? 00:49:57 http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/020312/nsa-620x317-620x317.jpg?hash=MGx2L2ZlZT&upscale=1 00:50:01 so much car park... 00:51:20 that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove 00:51:43 idk, sounds more like 4 lions or the coen brothers 00:53:22 If you play the Dungeons&Dragons game, say, do you do things like this too? 01:04:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:09:43 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:11:56 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 01:12:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:12:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 01:30:26 -!- augur has joined. 01:31:50 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:31:51 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:34:15 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 02:59:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:01:55 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:10:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:02:45 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:44:28 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:03:57 `slist 06:04:00 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:25:10 "I have had an opportunity to read your article [REDACTED] on [REDACTED]. Through your works, I know you are an expert in this field." Yeah, I'm sure you've read it and are not just automatically spamming all authors for articles for your journal named almost exactly like a well-known existing journal. 06:25:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:27:31 Don't you want to write for Naturer? 06:28:00 Please look at CGA Collection this time 06:33:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:06:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:07:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:45:20 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:57:05 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:58:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:59:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:00:56 Wish me out-of-context luck! 09:01:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 09:04:13 Good oocluck, then. 09:15:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:32:55 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:25:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:51:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:03:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:09:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:21:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:30:22 http://sprunge.us/gDce nice memory use numbers in 'top' here. 11:35:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:36:12 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 11:36:20 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 11:36:20 -!- audioPhil has joined. 11:50:00 kmc, should I learn Rust? 11:50:57 Taneb: I'm not kmc, but I think you should learn Rust 11:54:31 ais523, should I learn Rust over learning, say C++? 11:55:12 Taneb: C++ is as of 2013 more practically useful; I'm hoping Rust overtakes it, although sadly it probably won't 11:55:17 Rust is a much better language, though, IMO 11:55:24 unless you like sheer eso craziness 11:55:29 then C++ is pretty good 11:55:59 fun fact: I added a couple of small C++ files to a mostly-C project recently, because I needed to create a file that could produce side effects upon being linked into a project 11:56:06 without causing it to fail to compile if it wasn't 11:56:17 that can't be done in portable C, but it can be done in portable C++ 11:56:25 and in fact a bunch of systems have complex linker support just to get that to work 11:57:46 ais523, that seems... 11:57:49 a weird thing to do 11:58:20 Taneb: well you know how the Linux kernel has modules that can be compiled in and can also be dynamically loaded, depending on configuration? 11:58:24 No 11:58:36 I was going for something like that, except that the core file would know which files were compiled in without anyone having to tell it 11:58:53 thus it would know whether it needed to try to dynamically load them or not if someone requested them 11:58:54 I don't know that much about the linux kernel 11:59:24 hmm 11:59:35 (should probably learn at some point) 11:59:38 you don't need to know anything about internals to know that, just to have configured it at least once 11:59:46 but I guess people don't configure the kernel very often 12:01:43 I'm going to get some lunch now 12:12:05 ais523: What's the point of configuring the kernel? When do you need to do it? 12:12:23 Roujo: when you're compiling it in anything other than a stock configuration 12:12:38 Why would you want to do that? 12:12:39 in my case, it was for an embedded system 12:12:44 Ah, okay 12:12:54 needed to turn off as many features as we could get away with to save disk space 12:13:20 also the sysadmins here had to reconfigure the kernel of a VM for me so that a program I wrote that required specific kernel support would run 12:13:34 (one of the flags to prctl) 12:13:38 Yeah, I guess I just never used anything specific enough to have to do that =) 12:14:50 well it was on by default in the kernel my laptop uses 12:14:59 but apparently not in the configuration used by the desktops and servers here 12:15:09 you should always configure your kernel unusually to keep the NSA off balance. also, have this nice tin(*) hat. (*) _genuine_ tin, not that aluminium thing that _strengthens_ the mind control rays instead. 12:16:16 I just use lead instead 12:16:24 oerjan: there was that huge row from people who didn't understand the way the Linux kernel implemented randomness 12:16:37 telling it to stop XORing rdrand() results with its true-random numbers to make them randomer 12:16:45 Roujo: that only helps against the cancer-producing rays. 12:16:55 oerjan: You haven't met my mother 12:17:11 that may be true. 12:18:08 ais523: i think i saw a post where linus insulted them recently. 12:18:20 yes 12:18:35 well, it wasn't so much typical linus insults 12:18:43 much too mild. 12:18:47 as "go read the kernel source, then tell me if your request makes any sense" 12:20:37 http://sprunge.us/FjXH <- this software does not fill me with confidence. 12:21:24 all those warnings are the same thing, though 12:21:41 assuming 64 bit, it'll work fine if they're storing integers in pointers 12:21:43 Sounds nice. Pointers as ints are always nice. 12:21:48 but not if they're storing pointers in integers 12:21:53 and both situations would cause that warning 12:22:13 Wait, casting an int as a pointer causes the "pointer-to-int" warning? 12:22:29 That doesn't sound intuitive 12:22:45 mind you, if you've just read about how applying the NSA PRNG to "improve" true random output ruins it, you'd be naturally suspicious of other ways of "improving" random numbers, too. 12:22:46 You need to convert both ways in both scenarios, generally. 12:23:06 For the most part those warnings are of the if (debug) printf ("...@%x...", (int)thisisapointer); variety, which is clearly wrong but does not really matter. 12:24:08 Also there is one case of if (unsignedcharvalue = (unsigned char)NULL) (except obscured by typedefs) which is also completely wrong if NULL is defined as "(void *)0", but does not matter either. 12:24:54 Yes, all the others than that one seem to be debug printouts. 12:25:01 (Whoever wrote this clearly has not heard of %p.) 12:25:35 I remember a style guide somewhere saying not to use %p ever 12:25:37 but I can't remember why 12:26:07 fizzie: wait, (unsigned char)NULL, not (unsigned char *)NULL ? 12:26:20 oerjan: Yes, well, the other side is an unsigned char (not a pointer to it) too. 12:26:33 It's looking for the terminating '\0' of a string, as far as I can tell. 12:26:45 now I'm wondering, is it ever possible for (unsigned char)NULL to not be 0? 12:26:48 Yes. 12:26:59 my guess is yes, but zero constants work weirdly when it comes to pointers 12:27:09 e.g. (void*)(float)0 is always NULL 12:27:21 err, (void*)(int)(float)0 12:27:40 argh 12:28:08 are you _sure_ of that. 12:28:15 ais523: I don't think that's true. 12:28:28 ais523: It is true that (void*)(int)0.0f is always NULL, however. 12:28:41 AAAAAAAAAAAAA 12:28:56 Related: http://ewontfix.com/11/ 12:29:03 fizzie: I can't remember the exact rules, but they're stupid 12:29:15 what about (void*)(NULL - NULL)? 12:29:48 ais523: "Integer constant expressions" are allowed to include "floating constants that are the immediate operands of casts", but any cast operators "shall only convert arithmetic types to integer types", which would outlaw the (float) cast. 12:30:09 (And of course a null pointer expression needs an integer constant expression with a value of 0.) 12:30:16 haha, ridiculous :) 12:30:45 I don't think (void *)(NULL - NULL) is always correct, if the definition of NULL includes the (legal) cast to (void *). 12:31:34 hm is pointer subtraction defined if the pointers are NULL 12:31:36 ais523, rust is still making 12:31:53 oerjan: I was wondering that myself 12:32:00 it's obviously undefined if exactly one is NULL 12:32:13 they're not pointing to the same array, because there is no array. 12:32:20 but both being NULL is the sort of situation you don't lean the rules for because it's stupid to do it 12:32:40 they're both pointing one past the end of (void[0])NULL :P 12:33:05 There is no [0]. 12:33:20 "Both shall point to elements of the same array object" is all it says. 12:33:27 I'm guessing it's not right. 12:33:53 *Anyway*, regarding the original topic, I don't think "(int)(void *)0" has any particular guarantees that would require it to be 0. 12:34:00 so if I have a pointer to something that isn't an array 12:34:04 I can't subtract that pointer from itself? 12:34:36 I think it's bootstrapping now 12:34:40 I am scared 12:34:52 How would you have a valid pointer to something that isn't an array? (There's a rule that says approximately that everything can be treated as one-element arrays.) 12:34:52 (this could easily be achieved via, say, taking the address of a stack element) 12:35:03 fizzie: hmm, right 12:37:22 "For the purposes of these operators, a pointer to an object that is not an element of an array behaves the same as a pointer to the first element of an array of length one with the type of the object as its element type." 12:37:30 "These operators" being + and -. 12:38:43 whereas NULL doesn't count because it doesn't necessarily point to anything? 12:38:54 It explicitly does not point to any object, I think. 12:40:18 well it's possible for it to point to something 12:40:30 Is it defined somewhere? I keep getting errors saying that NULL doesn't exist >_> 12:40:52 is there anything in the standard to prevent NULL being somewhere on the stack? (it can't be on the heap, unless it's in the middle of an object, because free ignores it) 12:40:57 Roujo: stdlib.h 12:41:03 Roujo: It's defined in many headers, but is the standard location. 12:41:13 , and others define it too. 12:41:31 I can't quite parse "While using rustc directly to generate your executables, and then running them manually is a perfectly valid way to test your code, for smaller projects, prototypes, or if you're a beginner, it might be more convenient to use the rust tool." 12:41:38 12:42:09 Is it saying that compiling then running is better if I'm a beginner, or is it saying that using the rust tool is better if I'm a beginner? 12:42:23 ais523: Anyhow, a null pointer is "guaranteed to compare unequal to a pointer to any object or function", which would be a contradiction if it actually pointed to an object, because it would then compare equal to any pointer to that object. 12:42:39 right 12:43:06 And you can have a "char *" at any individual byte of an object, so I think you can't even hide it in the middle of an object. 12:43:07 Taneb: it's saying that if you're starting out, rust is probably easier to use, but rustc is perfectly acceptable 12:43:17 Thanks 12:43:21 what if it points halfway through a byte? 12:43:31 ais523: fizzie: Thanks, that explains it =P 12:43:40 (I think this is actually legal in C, although not massively useful) 12:43:42 Any reason why it's not a keyword? =P 12:44:09 0 is a keyword :-P 12:44:35 Not technically, I don't think. (Keywords are identifiers.) 12:44:44 I know 12:44:45 C++11 has a 'nullptr' keyword for a null pointer, I think. 12:44:46 but close enough 12:44:54 fizzie: I was thinking about that 12:44:59 but I'm not sure if it's a keyword or just a templtae 12:45:01 *template 12:45:40 I don't think I want to get the C++11 specification to find out, but I think it's a keyword. 12:45:48 'true' and 'false' are keywords there too. 12:46:34 I hope they were defined as 0 and 1 respectively, just to annoy people 12:46:43 although they probably weren't 12:47:44 defines three macros: true, false, and file_no.. I mean, __bool_true_and_false_are_defined. 12:48:07 Oh, and "bool" as a macro that expands to "_Bool", forgot that. 12:48:42 btw, something that came up in discussion with the people here this morning: strictly typed LaTeX 12:48:54 basically the idea is that it typechecks your math in order to catch typos 12:51:08 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:53:51 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:55:29 fizzie: isn't __bool_true_and_false_are_defined sort of redundant with true :P 12:55:51 i guess it never hurts to be explicit. 12:56:49 ais523: good luck with typechecking _real_ math. 12:57:17 oerjan: it'd work on category theory 12:57:48 real math makes C++ overloading look sane, you know. 12:58:24 oerjan: I guess you can use it to check whether they're defined in the standard way, rather than in some custom way. 13:00:37 -!- boily has joined. 13:08:54 -!- Koen has joined. 13:11:32 Ohayoily 13:12:06 Roujohayō. 13:13:42 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:18:37 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:19:45 I can't get rust-mode working in emacs... 13:20:18 Have you tried adding a mist of water and letting it sit there for a couple of years? 13:20:35 Taneb: did you turn it off and on again? 13:22:14 Is the cable connected? 13:24:13 did you try pushing Ctrl-Apple-Escape-Meta-Alt-Start-Alt Gr-R ? 13:29:16 oerjan: you forgot Hyper. 13:29:22 oh. 13:31:43 otherwise, all that'll do will bring up the Tetris-Mayan-Calendar-Half-Debug-Mode, but only if he has the scratchpad open. 13:33:41 i did not know the mayans had a tetris calendar. 13:33:53 clever guys 13:36:31 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone has tried to adapt a piano keyboard for non-music use 13:37:10 Well 13:37:11 Well 13:37:15 I tried. Once. 13:37:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:37:31 ooh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5928061/using-a-piano-keyboard-as-a-computer-keyboard 13:38:07 -!- Bike has joined. 13:38:15 Using a piano keyboard as a computer keyboard sounds like a profoundly bad idea. 13:38:25 Using something similar to a computer keyboard as a piano keyboard is less ridiculous. 13:38:29 I used a DDR pad to play Goldeneye 13:38:32 (But with velocity sensitivity) 13:38:32 So yeah 13:38:41 There really is no limit 13:38:54 I need to find a nice small electric piano. 13:39:24 I have a wind "piano" 13:39:39 More like an organ, probably 13:39:45 But without the pipes 13:39:58 Um... are you referring to a melodica? 13:40:19 Nope 13:40:30 It was electric 13:41:42 Creative sells a computer keyboard where the integrated wrist rest contains a small piano keyboard. 13:41:51 Normally there's a cover on top of it when typing. 13:42:27 http://ask.creative.com/wwimages/general/product_guides/prodikeys_dm.jpg <- this thing. 13:42:27 I've found mini-keyboards to be surprisingly useless for digital composing. 13:45:19 -!- updog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:59:19 Gregor: why? 14:01:10 surprisingly, Gregor isn't a midget. 14:01:23 sometimes, when editing the quotes for too long, you realise your brain's been blocking dangerous replies in the background, preserving your sanity. 14:01:38 Bike: why. oh why did you link to shapeshifting cuttlefish erotica. 14:02:04 i was asked~ 14:02:17 What the hell? 14:02:24 answers that, then. 14:03:02 coppro: A mix of things... velocity sensitivity is not useful, so their primary "advantage" isn't one, and you need to go trawling between octaves all the time because their range is so small. Add on the fact that your hands will surely be near the computer keyboard to do other things, and I never found myself using it. 14:04:21 Perhaps you could have a physically scrollable mini-keyboard that you could drag left and right to access further octaves. 14:04:30 (With some sort of a folding mechanism.) 14:05:39 It was just a button press to get to other octaves. 14:05:56 Much less time investment than a retarded let's-suck-Apple's-cock drag maneuver. 14:08:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:18:04 `quote django 14:18:09 265) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 311) `quote django ​352) django is named a 14:18:27 okay, so the olsner-giraffe is part of the quote. no line break, then. 14:19:29 Wait, so... I should probably quote you `quoting to keep the trend, is that it? 14:19:52 Roujo, only if olsner comments 14:20:00 Roujo: you'd be piling up on the olsner-cpressey-mnoqy combo. 14:20:37 Roujo: and think before you say something djanguesque. the consequences will never be the same. 14:21:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:21:21 8 days... 14:21:29 8 days until I'm in a far of land 14:21:33 Well 14:21:35 Not that far off 14:21:49 Like, less than 100 miles away 14:22:01 ~eval 100 * 1.609 14:22:02 160.9 14:22:19 uhm. yeah. multiplication by one hundred. you guys didn't see nothing at all. 14:22:50 ~eval 百 * 二十から五 14:22:51 Error (1): Not in scope: `百'Not in scope: `二十から五' 14:22:54 Pff 14:23:44 Roujo: eille :p 14:26:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:28:19 boily: 'faudrait que tu japonise ton cuttlefish 14:29:02 Roujo: file in an issue on github! :) 14:29:18 ~duck pectopah 14:29:18 --- No relevant information 14:29:41 There's a congregation point for stupid cuttlefish? 14:31:12 Oh right, there 14:31:13 is* 14:31:15 https://github.com/pfcuttle/metasepia ← ISSUES! FILE THEM! ☺ 14:31:33 You put that on Github, but the repo is not quite useful =P 14:31:36 2 Commits: 14:31:42 "Initial" and "Initial Commit" 14:31:55 Source code? Not much, just an "Hello World" 14:32:40 I know. haven't had time to port the whole stuff to GHC 7.6. 14:32:50 like, all that error upheaval and stuff. 14:32:53 like. 14:33:23 It's easy 14:33:24 git add * 14:33:26 git commit 14:33:30 git push origin master 14:33:32 THERE YOU GO 14:33:58 nah. not going to make public the old version. 14:34:22 Oh. I see 14:35:20 well. some people in the chännel saw some parts. they can witness that it really shouldn't be made public :p 14:35:38 (aaaaurgh. that missed occasion in Duck.hs where I could have used Alternative... it still burns...) 14:36:18 Gregor: you seem to have a Deep and Old hatred of Apple Products. 14:36:47 That's because their products are awful, the company is awful, and everything they stand for is awful. 14:38:15 >okay 14:43:33 -!- augur has joined. 14:50:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:51:02 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 14:53:38 boily: I put an issue on Github 14:53:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:55:28 Hello 14:55:55 おはよう! 14:56:47 -!- augur has joined. 15:04:26 I... I agree with one of kmc's quotes. I feel very strange. 15:05:23 -!- yorick has joined. 15:05:28 Which one would that be? 15:05:56 `quote colemak 15:05:58 818) colemak is for people who think dvorak is too mainstream 15:06:06 -!- conehead has joined. 15:06:12 Sure 15:06:23 Also, un clavier AZERTY en vaut deux 15:06:25 So there 15:06:49 * boily bops Roujo with a Model M keyboard 15:07:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:21:05 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:23:56 -!- carado has joined. 15:24:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:38:59 Now I found the esolang Urn. I like this too. 16:00:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:08:09 I added some things in list of ideas 16:08:22 Funge like where the acceleration changes rather than the direction (although you can change the acceleration in any directions). 16:21:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:25:16 That's a pretty good idea 16:25:49 Perhaps ^ < v > apply a force 16:25:54 And you can change the pointer's mass 16:32:25 and when you go too fast special relativity drops in? 16:37:16 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:54:41 -!- updog has joined. 16:59:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:03:59 -!- Bike has joined. 17:04:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:11:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:28:35 back from lunch, and the funge is accelerated. 17:28:57 I tried a bún riêu today. it smells bad, but it tastes good ^^ 17:31:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:38:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 17:46:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:49:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:04:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:04:23 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:04:48 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:04:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:05:30 new gaming categories are ridiculous. roguelikes are too mainstream, so now there are roguelikelikes. 18:06:03 Ha 18:06:04 "action-adventure" of course was always a sensible categorization 18:06:43 i still don't really understand why action-adventure is different from rpg 18:07:09 Where are my adventure point-and-clicks :( 18:07:29 my earliest memory of gaming genres is asking what "RP" meant in an ESRB rating and being told it stood for Role Playing Game, because in Starfox Adventures you played the role of Fox. 18:07:39 it's pretty much been downhill from there 18:07:44 Holy... 18:07:46 Phantom_Hoover: in action-adventure, you get action and adventure. in rpg you get scantily clad effeminate male protagonists. 18:08:10 well that's the crux really, rpg is hilariously broad 18:08:31 Borderland is an action-adventure FPSRPG 18:08:38 *Fun* 18:08:42 Borderlands* 18:09:24 like it includes, as a genre, games where the player character is a fixed character independent of player input; and games where the PC has no characterisation whatsoever beyond that imposed on them 18:10:33 I'd like to see one day a cross between Call of Duty and Katamari. 18:11:11 It's almost, ALMOST as if humans have a natural tendency to categorize. 18:11:13 What a tragedy. 18:11:40 it's definitely tragic when human function doesn't match our idea of human function. 18:11:46 human function is an asshole. 18:11:49 fact 18:12:08 Gregor: playing with the quotes, I came to create ad hoc categories: people obsessed with sex, and insane people. 18:12:20 Gregor, yes but when you name the category after something that varies wildly within that category... 18:12:44 "People" 18:13:29 boily: Also, those two aren't mutually exclusive 18:14:07 http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/ this seems very zzo38 18:15:17 Roujo: yes. 18:15:39 Bike: how do you measure zzoness? 18:15:41 boily: はい 18:16:14 boily: a special MSX Computer program i have 18:16:56 "A man who fucks bicycles is on the loose in Sweden." 18:16:57 Bike: plausible. 18:17:07 what? 18:18:07 boily: 何 18:20:28 Roujo: 海老。 18:20:38 boily: 何 18:20:54 "shrimp" 18:20:56 >okay 18:29:48 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:38:55 @tell Patashu congratulations! you are another member of the Great People Revolutionary Association of People Who Were There, But Are Not 18:38:55 Consider it noted. 18:40:42 -!- clog has joined. 18:43:42 ~duck bonkers 18:43:42 bonkers definition: crazy, mad. 18:44:34 @tell oerjan lutefisk. in a microwave. you are mad. 18:44:34 Consider it noted. 18:44:58 @tell oerjan boily: Well yeah. We know that by now. 18:44:58 Consider it noted. 18:46:07 Roujo: oerjan is a fine example of the insane people category. 18:46:16 Cool, cool 18:46:23 Where do I fit in? 18:47:28 eeeeeh... the Canadian category? 18:49:58 Woot woot 18:50:21 "The Canadian, the Sexually Obsessed and the Bat-Shit Cray Cray" 19:00:32 `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:00:37 1107) \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:00:47 ... 19:00:49 :D 19:00:55 `revert 19:00:58 Done. 19:01:01 ok, ok... 19:04:31 Admin abuse! 19:04:34 Admin abuuuuuse! 19:04:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:06:10 Roujo: yes, but that's besides the point. he's elliott. 19:07:34 (that was my feeble attempt at appeasing the authorities, and trying to distract them long enough to slip in another `addquote) 19:08:58 -!- Bike has joined. 19:10:15 nobody actually said that quote. 19:11:19 right. my next attempt will be subtler, and within the rules. 19:11:35 `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:11:37 There you go 19:12:24 Roujo: there's still the slight detail that neither you nor I can `addquote it, cause it'll be in poor taste. 19:12:54 ~echo `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:12:55 `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:12:58 1107) \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:13:06 Your point being? 19:13:23 `revert 19:13:26 Done. 19:13:26 Gah 19:13:29 =P 19:13:55 ~echo `addquote `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:13:55 `addquote `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:14:00 1107) `addquote \item `addquote two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes. 19:14:00 That's a quote, right? 19:14:08 stop. 19:14:18 Alright, alright... 19:15:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:15:13 -!- elliott has kicked HackEgo HackEgo. 19:15:15 -!- elliott has kicked metasepia metasepia. 19:15:17 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -v Roujo. 19:15:18 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:15:19 -!- elliott has left. 19:15:40 FATALITY 19:15:51 Oh wait. I can't talk anymore. 19:16:48 Roujo, do you feel like that fishy lass in the book about the chap 19:17:13 Do tell 19:17:20 The Little Mermaid 19:17:36 Fun fact: My SO is called Arielle 19:17:56 Also, no, I don't believe I do 19:18:00 How *did* she feel 19:19:15 -!- elliott has joined. 19:19:28 'morning, elliott 19:19:33 Sorry for the botspam =/ 19:21:36 Or would that be "about the botspam"? 19:21:37 well, I'm hardly innocent of botspam myself in my wild and reckless youth :P 19:22:17 Well yeah =P 19:22:24 I'm not young. Roujo is. 19:22:27 aren't you like twelve 19:22:37 I'm more concerned about the ping that came with it =P 19:22:44 boily is twenty 19:22:49 It rhymes, so it's true 19:23:23 How the hell does boily rhyme with twenty 19:23:35 bwenty rhymes with twenty 19:23:41 boily does as well 19:23:43 boily rhymes with oily! 19:23:49 Pfff 19:23:58 First-degree rhymes have feelings! 19:24:04 Taneb: /bwali/. 19:24:14 So it's a poor rhyme. Sue me. 19:24:17 (Please don't) 19:24:21 boily, that still doesn't rhyme with twenty! 19:24:51 It almost rhymes with "call me" 19:24:59 call me, boily 19:25:25 (´・ω・`) 19:25:44 oh god no 19:25:51 oh the fungot. 19:25:52 boily: but, we are far outnumbered!... ...oh well! come again! these are my friends! this is the masamune! 19:26:07 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:26:36 * boily hides behind mnoqy “You won't get me alive!” 19:26:58 hi 19:27:22 -!- conehead has joined. 19:27:42 mnoqy: hi. don't worry, nothing bad will happen to you. 19:30:02 is it REALLY /bwali/ 19:30:24 i remember thinking it was /bwali/ but it was /bojli/ (screw proper transcription) 19:31:02 nooodl: it really is /bwali/. transcribes /wa/. 19:33:41 boily: c'est domamge. la façon anglaise à l'air plus mignonne. "boï-lie!" 19:34:59 nooodl: j'aime aussi, vu que ça sonne comme «bouillant», mais j'ai comme un certain attachement sentimental à mon nom de famille :p 19:36:34 change de nom de famille EQÇA 19:36:57 nooodl: EQÇA? 19:37:13 "espère que ça aide" EQÇA 19:37:28 Ō_Ō. je l'avais vraiment pas vue venir celle-là... 19:45:28 http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/we-dont-enable-backdoors-in-our-crypto-products-rsa-tells-customers/ wow these are like the worst denials 19:46:57 "under no circumstances does RSA design or enable any backdoors in our products" 19:47:01 did you miss the earlier explanation that being slow is actually an advantage since it's harder to bruteforce keys 19:47:04 "the NSA designs them for us!" 19:47:07 choice shit, imo 19:50:40 i wrote a little tumblr post about how everything is more likely to be intranecine incompetence than a conspiracy. i feel like i wear a next-level tinfoil hat 19:51:50 is there some word, for like, a "conspiracy" that isn't really a conspiracy, like, it doesn't involve a lot of people? 19:52:01 Bike: Never blame on malice what that which can be attributed to stupidity. 19:52:06 like the NSA can have a "conspiracy" to get RSA keys from lots of companies, but all it takes is one person sending out national security letters 19:52:13 that's not really a big conspiracy 19:52:21 conspiracy = shared breath. spiracy = breath. so, spiracy 19:52:26 xD 19:52:30 just one person breathing 19:53:05 also that's usually just called "abuse" or sometimes "corruption" 19:53:14 "a power-mad shitbag" 19:53:20 i dunno the latin for shitbag sorry 19:53:33 xD 19:54:02 "shit rock" is the closest i got. 19:54:25 excrementum saccus? 19:54:30 coprolite 19:54:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:54:37 (a kind of fossil) 19:54:58 oh, i guess that's greek 19:59:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 20:06:49 finally found why the phở was correctly typeset. it was because of \usepackage{txfonts}, which overrode \usepackage[sc]{mathpazo}. 20:18:03 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:21:38 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:26:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:28:29 boily: i'm sorry, you clearly have misread the quote, it was precisely about how i refrained from lutefisk because it _cannot_ be microwaved 20:29:10 no contest on the madness part though. 20:29:46 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/he-doesnt-juggle-he-doesnt-twist-balloons-into-animal-shapes-he-just-stares-who-is-the-creepy-clown-terrifying-the-people-of-northampton-8819006.html 20:31:15 dream job 20:31:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:32:00 Good URL. Best clown. 20:33:27 oerjan: thanks for the clarification. 20:34:04 today's \LaTeX{} command: \emergencystretch. quite useful for that bunch of unwarranted overfull hboxen! 20:39:19 Also, un clavier AZERTY en vaut deux <-- wait, keyboard is clavier in french? 20:39:46 no:klavér means a large piano, or thereabouts. 20:40:10 well-tempered keyboard 20:40:24 Clever keyboard. 20:40:33 hm clavus is latin for key, iirc 20:40:44 (modulo suffix) 20:40:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 20:41:06 oerjan: I concur. keyboard is indeed «clavier». 20:41:20 (no. «vier» is not a board.) 20:41:24 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/unfortunate-bbc-moustache-for-nigel-farage-8829452.html 20:41:51 English also calls both keyboards of typing kind and music kind just keyboards, so that's reasonable? 20:42:10 i assume the french word, like the english, can be used both for computer and musical keyboards. 20:42:20 "Apologies for my previous tweet. An error of judgement on my behalf." you are incorrect! 20:42:37 didn't a ukip guy get in trouble for assault today 20:42:55 by which i men hitting someone with a newspaper 20:43:02 fizzie: i assume your comment implies that finnish, like norwegian, uses different words. 20:43:29 «MEP Godfrey Bloom, who refers to a room of female delegates as "sluts" and then whacks Channel 4 News's Michael Crick over the head» ah, yes 20:44:03 tastatur and (iirc) klaviatur, respectively 20:44:06 "The trouble with Godfrey is that, he is not a racist, he's not an extremist or any of those things and he's not even anti-women, but he has a sort-of rather old fashioned territorial army sense of humour which does not translate very well in modern Britain." he's not racist, just racist 20:44:09 oerjan: It does. ("näppäimistö" and "koskettimisto".) 20:44:46 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 20:45:02 oerjan: "Näppäillä" is approximately "to tap", while "koskettaa" is "to touch". So you tap a computer keyboard, but touch a musical one. 20:45:35 hm -imist[oö] means what? 20:45:41 Spanish "tocar el piano"? 20:46:27 oerjan: Well, it goes through the noun-ifications "näppäin" 'thing you tap', "kosketin" 'thing you touch' first. 20:46:48 oerjan: Then it's a sort of a "multiple of these things" construction from there. 20:47:57 Bike: technically you're not racist if you hate _everyone_ 20:48:18 technically you are racist if you're part of ukip, though 20:48:21 looks like the -ier suffix in "clavier" comes from this http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-arius so it's like "keyer" 20:48:42 also nontechnically 20:48:53 It's a slightly specific, it will sound silly if you try applying the construction to arbitrary words. But there are other similar words. 20:49:02 Bike: hey you may just think ukip gets closest to your general view on humanity, even if they're too light on the british. 20:49:06 keyinator 20:49:24 oerjan: i know you're being funny and all but it's hard to laugh at them in this fashion 20:49:39 The library card catalog (if such still existed) is a "kortisto", because it contains many cards ("kortti"), and so on. 20:49:58 oh, did i mention, i checked out a library book a few days back that had a punchcard in it 20:50:13 Bike: try drawing moustaches on their pictures before laughing. toothbrush style should work well. 20:50:48 Bike: darn i should have checked the second link above first 20:50:54 And, uh, I suppose "toimisto" means "office" because many tasks ("toimi", one sense) are performed there? 20:50:59 http://25.media.tumblr.com/50f6f8e4b7307955663b689dce7e5e8a/tumblr_mt3ajafUPK1r7tprao2_r1_1280.jpg behold, the future 20:52:24 nice 20:52:31 what the fungot is that... 20:52:31 boily: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. for you, it was a red rock as the chancellor. i can't burn, they take us in. many cloud in sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win! 20:52:32 do they still use them as punch cards? 20:52:34 Anyhow, you can't say "tuolisto" (a thing of many chairs "tuoli") without it sounding completely ridiculous, but you can say "penkistö" (a thing of many benches "penkki") and it sounds perfectly natural. 20:53:03 fizzistö 20:53:04 MITSFS has a bunch of punch cards like that, but these days they're used only for scratch paper / decoration 20:54:31 Oh, and the standard word for a park is "puisto", where "puu" means "a tree". (It's used also if the park in question has no trees in it.) 20:55:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:56:21 iconv -f iso-8859-1 < /usr/share/dict/finnish | grep -i 'ist[oö]$' | wc -l => 94. 20:56:45 (Not all of those are -- at least in any sort of obvious way -- constructed from a base noun.) 20:57:05 why is your dictionary in ISO 8859-1 :( 20:57:10 I have no idea. 20:57:24 That's what Debian "wfinnish" installs. 20:58:01 also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Character_Set#History_of_ISO_10646 apparently the original plan for extending UCS-2 beyond 2^16 codepoints was to use ISO 2022 20:58:18 puuttaisto 20:58:33 so the original plan was even worse than UTF-16 20:58:36 It might technically be in ISO 8859-15. Though there are no characters in it for which that'd make a difference. 20:58:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:59:09 why are some people still attached to ISO 2022? 20:59:46 I don't think many people are... 20:59:54 but it still gets used for line-drawing in non-Unicode terminals, at least 21:00:52 ||| 21:00:58 That should be enough for anyone 21:01:16 Heck, take a -, a _ and a ­¯ as well 21:01:26 (and gets used for line-drawing in Unicode terminals when the software in question doesn't care enough to switch) 21:01:30 Maybe even a =, a / and a \ 21:01:38 what about + 21:01:42 That too 21:01:48 kmc: I think the not-caring part is the most important factor in non-unicodifying the whole world. 21:01:49 + is useful for doing corners 21:01:51 See? Plenty to go around 21:02:03 #, even 21:02:15 ! if you want a bit of flair 21:02:29 ( and ) for squiggles 21:02:34 ~~~ 21:02:37 [^a-zA-Z0-9] even 21:02:43 MEH 21:02:49 ? doesn't quite do it for me 21:03:00 And neither does & 21:03:03 But ~... 21:03:09 ~ is sexy. 21:03:14 All night long~~ 21:03:18 ~ sweet ~ 21:03:34 http://sprunge.us/HebS 21:03:43 (~·~) (is that a valid smiley?) 21:03:51 I'm sure I've seen a box like that somewhere. 21:04:00 AnotherTest: Probably. 21:04:10 Ask boily, the smiley 21:04:12 Possibly with corners made out of Os or something. 21:04:15 It rhymes, so it's true 21:04:38 (~,·) 21:04:39 And Taneb can't object, either 21:04:40 So there 21:05:11 ~(·_·)~ 21:05:11 -!- Bike has joined. 21:05:30 kmc: they don't still use them. the librarian gave me that one since otherwise he was just going to trash it. 21:05:45 i can only assume nobody had checked out "Reflections on Muscles" for a while, shocking as that is 21:06:00 Roujo: stop rhyming me, you unpoetic fiend! 21:07:01 Uncle Muscles Hour 21:07:28 `? Uncle Muscles 21:07:33 Can any group action on a set be used to define an equivalence relation on a set? 21:07:33 Right 21:07:41 HackEgo got kicked by elliott 21:07:43 (the same set twice) 21:07:44 yeah i thought it would make for a good androphilic porno too 21:07:45 ADMIN ABUUUUUUUUUUSE 21:07:56 alas andrew huxley wasn't that hot when he wrote it 21:08:12 hm, wonder if i can find a picture of him young 21:08:17 Uncle Muscles is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_and_Eric_Awesome_Show,_Great_Job! 21:08:57 Roujo: let me try an experimentale manœuvre... 21:08:57 which is basically a fever dream nightmare version of public access cable 21:09:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:09:10 ~duck uncle muscles 21:09:10 --- No relevant information 21:09:17 Roujo: nope. didn't work. 21:09:24 wow there are like no pictures of this guy before he was like forty 21:09:47 about half of the actors are internationally known comedians, the other half are random people in LA they hired off craigslist, and the two groups get equal respect and screentime 21:10:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Young_Huxley_RN.jpg i guess his gramps was cute, though 21:10:29 "darwin's bulldog": possibly a bdsm thing? discuss 21:13:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:15:37 AnotherTest: the obvious way would be an equivalence relation whose classes are the orbits of the group action 21:18:02 oerjan: well, considering I'm just reading this algebra book I'm not really familiar with all the terminology 21:18:16 what's an orbit of a group action? 21:18:49 AnotherTest: just a set of the form { g x | g \in G } for x \in X 21:19:30 alternatively, just define directly x ~ y as \exists g \in G : g x = y 21:20:13 then g^-1 y = x, and transitivity is just multiplication 21:21:13 it is possible i'm not using the right terminology, g x is g acting on x. 21:21:31 *terminology for your book 21:22:18 Yeah, that's sort of what I meant 21:23:39 well, it seems like a possibly useful result 21:25:08 now prove that _every_ equivalence relation can be got from a group action >:) 21:26:50 (not necessarily a very interesting one, mind you) 21:29:27 Taneb: /bwali/. <-- wait make up your mind, is it french or irish 21:30:19 oerjan: it is pronounced as in French. it is ultimately Irish. it is rael. it is real. ♪ guitar solo ♪ 21:31:13 but is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABl ? 21:31:26 HA HA HA! 21:31:28 no. 21:34:04 http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0061798 gotta love biocyberneticists 21:34:12 instead of jacking into turtle brains, we'll just put blinders on them 21:35:06 Fig. 4 is nice. 21:36:36 Bike: that's not cybernetics, just politics. 21:37:50 ha ha, but "cybernetics" means politics! 21:37:51 your move 21:38:31 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:40:53 i'll borrow the porn e2 to e4 from the other day. 21:41:08 -!- augur has joined. 21:41:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:44:22 "espère que ça aide" EQÇA <-- can i borrow that for emergencies? 21:44:57 oerjan: i hereby release these four letters to the public domain. EQÇA. wait aren't you supposed to be kicking the habit 21:45:06 >_> 21:45:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:50:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:50:32 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:57 @tell Taneb Oh. OH. Yeah, I remember now - she also lost her voice. God, that took a while 21:59:57 Consider it noted. 22:01:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:15:07 hmm, were you guys trying to add latex-formatted quotes to the quotedb or something? 22:18:45 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:18:48 i think that was a mispaste. 22:23:27 good 22:26:03 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:46:59 oerjan: are you old? 22:47:34 43. 22:48:45 43... 22:49:26 43......... 22:49:31 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 22:50:11 43!?!?!? 22:51:19 43‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ 22:51:58 hmm, did shachaf leave here? 22:52:16 eek 22:52:59 there should be an opposite of a ban we could use for people who try to leave 22:54:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:54:25 yeah we should have nabbed shachaf before he escaped 22:55:28 Hehe 22:59:08 olsner: summon? 22:59:53 hmm, maybe you're looking for the other kind of esoterica? 23:00:11 Bike: ಠ_ಠ 23:00:11 ¯|¯⌠ 23:00:12 |\| 23:00:29 do you require assistance 23:01:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:01:49 Bike: I am sleep 23:05:21 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:07:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:13:17 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:13:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:14 -!- Nikita has joined. 23:55:31 hello 23:57:25 -!- Nikita has changed nick to nio247. 23:58:01 `welcome nio247 23:58:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:58:36 i hear hackego got kicked by elliott 2013-09-21: 00:00:11 so I had an idea for an esolang, what if we had something like a string-rewriting system using a list of production rules 00:00:42 that's been done a few times i think? what's yr twist on it 00:01:25 where each rule was of the form "if contents of buffer X match a CFG expression Y, rewrite contents of buffer Z with an expression W", where W can have substrings copied from some part of Y 00:02:27 might be an easier or harder way to write grammars, idk. 00:05:06 CFG might be more expressive than the usual regular... 00:05:54 although as thue shows, you only need fixed strings and one buffer to be TC 00:06:35 the idea is that if you can also include expressions for multiple buffers (i.e. a set of strings A -> a set of strings B, plus a set of subexpressions C that have to be equal among matches), then you can, for example, parse C code, populate a symbol table, and check if something is known or not at the same time. 00:07:40 ... as opposed to writing a LL(*) parser for a superset of a language, and then doing semantic analysis (is this a variable name or a type name?) to discard invalid programs. 00:08:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:11:46 what I'm trying to do is take a turing-tarpit (a production-based string-rewriting system like Thue) and make it into something that is somewhat easier to use... except my flavor isn't much better in that regard either. 00:16:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:18:13 -!- augur has joined. 00:22:21 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:24:30 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 00:32:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:27 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:35:21 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:43:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:53:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:57:55 -!- Bike has joined. 01:07:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:18:29 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 01:33:14 -!- nio247 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:51:08 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:21:57 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:24:18 -!- jconn has joined. 02:29:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:06:34 anyone here willing to explain to me how synchronous design in circuits works? i'm missing something easy i'm sure 03:08:41 willing, not able 03:09:12 i should have known :( 03:16:38 obligatory "just ask your question" 03:17:19 "how" 03:18:02 what do you mean by "synchronous design" 03:18:04 im probably not helpin 03:18:45 i still don't understand how you like, synchronize everything to not happen all at once. it seems probably more complicated than doing "everything" on a clock posedge 03:26:31 um I'm not sure if it's what you mean, but like 03:26:44 register -> wires and transistors and stuff -> register 03:26:56 I think the idea is like. the clock is a period of time, and during that period of time, everything in the middle is "on" 03:27:04 and happens at once 03:27:19 but of course like, the signal takes time to travel down the middle, which happens during the clock, which isn't instant 03:27:24 but like, then why would you worry about latency in an adder? 03:27:34 so like, towards the start of the clock, a wire near the end might have an interdeterminate state 03:27:37 *indeterminate 03:27:44 because the electricity hasn't propagated yet? 03:28:04 yeah that's what i'm worried about 03:28:08 and the design rules and stuff ensure that the signal propagates to the end register before the clock ends, basically. so that it's not indeterminate 03:28:27 oh, i see... 03:28:28 and so, you worry about latency because that limits how fast you can set your clock 03:28:31 that makes sense. 03:28:35 oh! yeah! 03:28:36 because you can't set your clock faster than the signal propagates? 03:28:39 ok, yeah, cool 03:28:42 I think that's right. 03:28:44 that helps 03:30:06 so I think when your FPGA thing tells you the clock rate of your design, it did the analysis and found the longest path? and then did math and stuff 03:30:23 ok well i'm not as far as that yet, i'm doing the worrying myself >_> 03:30:28 with FPGA it's more complicated though because it has these limited interconnects between different parts and it sometimes has to time-division multiplex them, i think 03:32:05 and it has to decide where to put everything 03:32:16 so it's not just adding up gate delays, but actually doing a really complex optimization problem 03:32:24 yeah i think i'm still not sure how fpgas work 03:32:39 my ide thing apparently lays things out in terms of logic gates, if only at some intermediate stage 03:33:00 anyway note that you don't need clocks for pure combinational logic 03:33:23 a pure logic gate (and any circuit of such gates with no feedback) will just have outputs that settle some amount of time after all the inputs have settled 03:33:41 right, that's why we haven't learned any clocking in class :p 03:33:46 where "settle" means that the voltage is in the "represents 0" or "represents 1" range for the logic family you're using 03:34:19 (and really there are two sets of ranges, one for inputs and one for outputs) 03:34:43 I should learn circuits by reading a lot of Lava code or something. 03:35:24 so you need clocks when you have state, because you need to say when to update the state, presumably after the combinational logic has settled 03:35:32 great, a/nother/ hdl 03:35:47 (although there are some things that have state but no clocks, like a buffer with a schmitt trigger input) 03:35:51 Bike: actually there's about six things called Lava. 03:35:58 and i have the wrong xilinx chip. 03:36:13 elliott: i'm guessing you mean the one related to circuits and haskell. who could say why i am making such a guess! 03:36:24 Bike: I mean there are multiple circuit EDSLs for Haskell called Lava. 03:36:30 What HDL do you like anyways? I didn't like them perfectly due to other problem so I made up my own idea; what kind of feature would you want for HDL, anyways? I would like to know opinion of who does too 03:36:34 there's York Lava, Kansas Lava, Chalmers Lava, probably others 03:36:35 * Bike sighs, closes everything 03:36:47 back to biology, where the code is shitty but uniform 03:36:56 ther'es a circuit edsl for scala too. what lanaguage DOESN'T have a circuit edsl at this point 03:37:00 you can imagine making a whole processor — fetch, decode, execute, memory, writeback — as pure combinational logic, but the longest gate delay path through there will be really long 03:37:09 kmc: right, right 03:37:14 which is why pipelining was invented 03:37:32 kmc: what fiora said makes this much easier for me to understand intuitively 03:37:34 Bike: anyway I like 'em because VHDL and Verilog are so noisy and the Lavas seem nice and declarative (to varying degrees, I like the one that the Reduceron is built with most because it uses observable sharing so there's a lot less noise, even if it's kinda creepy). 03:37:35 hooray 03:37:41 mnoqy: I don't know; perhaps INTERCAL? Is there one in Forth? 03:37:44 I'm just throwing out things I know now :) 03:37:44 and maybe sort of get the async stuff in neural models 03:38:21 though i think i'm pretty far from implementing "An FPGA implementation of a polychronous spiking neural network with delay adaptation", soon the brain will be mine 03:38:49 elliott: yeah verilog is pretty annoying, it just doesn't matter because i'm doing the circuitry equivalent of writing "convert fahrenheit to degrees" programs 03:39:23 I have used Verilog a little bit but I don't like it all that much; the others seem worse though. 03:39:36 i suppose i shouldn't bother asking verilog-specific questions here since nobody seems to know it 03:39:49 Bike: you can take a look at http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/reduceron/memos/Memo23.txt. it's accessible even to me, person who knows nothing about circuits. maybe it'll just make you feel worse about having to use verilog though 03:39:54 my experience with verilog is using it in conjunction with an ide to write a dumb pipelined processor for a schoolcourse 03:39:55 Bike: I basically know, like, my remnants of attempts to intuitively understand it -_- 03:40:17 so i possibly have memories of a tiny bit of verilog 03:41:04 elliott: why is this already talking about clock cycles... whatever, i'm just making a fuckin adder 03:41:30 Bike: so I think the FPGA has its own clock, separate from any clocks you might built into your design 03:41:46 hmmm 03:41:48 things that look like pure combinational logic might still need to be implemented using clocks 03:41:53 because of sharing those interconnects, etc 03:42:10 there's one clock provided to me but i think others were mentioned 03:43:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:43:26 looking at the xilinx development internals has kind of soured me from learning about how the chip actually works, though >_> 03:44:46 I think you had better figure it out anyways so that it can be programmed by making a program in the FPGA to do it, so that you don't need the other computer to make it. 03:45:31 What I mean is, zzo38, that to do that (which I would like to do,, in the abstract), I would essentially have to reverse engineer a few gigabytes worth of tools, which I don't really have the expertise or will to do. 03:45:56 Ask someone else to do. 03:46:18 zzo38: Could you reverse engineer a few gigabytes worth of proprietary tools for me? 03:47:21 I don't think so, but I expect that maybe many people can try to do it together. 03:50:15 That includes anyone who has the file (I don't). 03:50:45 you can get the system free, actually. 03:50:54 free as in lack of beer, obviously 03:51:25 I don't have those FPGA though. Even if I had the program it won't help if I don't have FPGA as well. 03:52:20 you don't need the physical board to figure out how the programs work. 03:52:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: don't feel like it). 03:53:19 Having the physical board too would help 03:55:36 What kind of features would you intend to have in hardware programming languages? 03:57:12 To me, HWPL would be something like: TRIGGER .CLOCK SET .REGISTER TO .INPUT; or perhaps you wait it continuous instead of by edge, for example: LATCH .CLOCK SET .REGISTER TO .INPUT; CONNECT .REGISTER TO .OUTPUT; 03:57:38 What is your opinion of just this example at least? 03:58:14 meanwhile in wired http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/09/bitcoin-homeless/ 03:59:12 Some commands might be: TRIGGER vector SET vector TO vector; LATCH bit SET vector TO vector; CONNECT vector TO vector; CONNECT vector TO vector WHEN bit; and so on. 04:03:16 "And he can beef up this daily take with Bitcoin Tapper, a mobile app that doles out about 0.000133 bitcoins a day — a couple of pennies — if he just taps on a digital icon over and over again." kill everyone 04:05:29 MODULE !D_FLIP_FLOP() {.CLOCK,.D,.Q,.NOTQ} BEGIN INPUT {.CLOCK,.D}; REGISTER .Q; OUTPUT .NOTQ; CONNECT ~.Q TO .NOTQ; TRIGGER .CLOCK SET .Q TO .D; END; Is this good? 04:06:56 Bitcoin beats the shit out of regular money 04:07:15 what does it mean that 600k homeless people in the US seems surprisingly low to me 04:07:39 mnoqy: I am just using regular money though, just Canadian coins and bills 04:08:08 zzo38: i bet it doesn't have any shit in it. you can thank bitcoin for that. 04:08:41 OK 04:14:07 -!- Bike has joined. 04:16:34 -!- augur_ has joined. 04:16:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:18:29 "Each numeric type contains exactly one value." yeah this is grand 04:28:00 Bike: What are you refering to? 04:53:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:02:35 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:07:10 some bytes 05:09:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:14:33 kmc: .oO( https://medium.com/funny-stuff/d7e5d14065f1 ) 05:16:21 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:17:12 that's hard to read. 05:17:34 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:18:43 Only the third part is relevant. 05:18:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:19:21 to? 05:19:25 or the homelessness thing. 05:19:30 buttcoin 05:20:22 i think it's worth noting that "paid to hit a button for advertisers" is, still, pretty much an actual improvement 05:25:15 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 05:51:21 neat that numpy lets you get the elements of x which are less than 4 as x[x < 4] 05:51:26 because x<4 is an array of bools 05:53:35 Ah, that is interesting, and is a good idea to use array of bools like this. 05:56:27 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:20:02 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 06:20:31 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:20:36 -!- rodgort` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:21:33 -!- rodgort has joined. 06:25:11 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:36:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:48:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:50:46 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:51:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:17:15 -!- carado has joined. 09:11:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:22:31 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:22:36 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 09:32:42 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 09:33:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:43:57 -!- Zuu has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 09:44:03 -!- Zuu has joined. 10:08:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:18:57 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:44:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:08:11 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:59:21 -!- conehead has joined. 13:00:26 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:47 -!- conehead has joined. 14:23:26 @ask Gregor elliott kicked HackEgo on Friday, could you bring it back in the channel? Thank you! =) 14:23:26 Consider it noted. 14:23:59 Nope. Manifest destiny. 14:44:57 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:52:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:55:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 14:58:54 Gregor: Okay =P 15:13:05 -!- augur has joined. 16:18:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:27:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:50:35 -!- augur has joined. 17:01:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:22 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:12:20 Why did elliott kick HackEgo on Friday? 17:12:47 gone power-mad 17:13:57 it was being used for multi-bot spam :p 17:15:00 I suppose you can still access it private anyways 17:15:08 Let's see 17:15:28 Yes it still works 17:17:01 And things like `list and so on can still be typed into the channel even if HackEgo no longer responds; you will have to filter on the client-side instead, now. 17:17:45 When I told you that at first, you didn't like it; now what do you think? 17:17:52 See? 17:18:56 WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MY IDEAS NOW, ACADEMY?? MWAHAHAHAHAHA *zzo surrounded by lightning* 17:25:59 "Hopefully VIS will get it working soon, but they don't care (or know) much about linux. " ausdfahisdfnqfoiasdf 17:26:31 i didn't even know that IT people not knowing some unix was a thing. what a fool i am. 17:39:55 It's a pretty common thing TBH. 17:40:39 yeah 17:40:39 yeah. 17:40:56 i don't think this problem is even linux-specific though, so i'll have to find a windows computer to test on. siiiigh 17:44:59 i wish my department and the EECS department just shared tech support. what's the fuckin point of splitting it up 17:56:06 they don't trust each other 17:59:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:04:00 Hi 18:09:58 The computer science department, as a rule, never uses the same tech support. 18:10:30 well i mean, i want the CS department's tech support to take over everyone else's, for hopefuly obvious reasons. 18:11:20 The other departments, as a rule, never use the computer science department for tech support. 18:11:25 but whyyyyy 18:38:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:41:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:49:41 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:51:45 What should I call the command to tell it that a label refers to a vocabulary entry? (It is like DW but it sets the internal vocabulary flag in the compiler) 19:05:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:20:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:24:44 -!- yorick has joined. 19:24:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:38:02 Played Mafia IRL last night. Couldn't stop cracking up when I was maf, still managed to win that round 19:39:20 it's ok as long as it's not evil laughter 19:46:28 i hate it when other people have ideas that i'd love to have 20:01:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:17:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:18:39 "Recommended For You" "The New Nordic Diet - from Gastronomy to Health" ... I don't know about this, Coursera. 20:22:42 the lutefisk diet, guaranteed to lose weigth as long as you eat nothing else. 20:22:48 *weight 20:27:57 Corpses shed weight pretty fast. 20:28:30 some people _may_ have claimed the word "else" is redundant there. 20:36:56 -!- Bike has joined. 20:48:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:50:22 can i eat lutefisk and hákarl 20:54:34 i'm sure you _can_ 20:55:00 oerjan: I was laughing when the narrator announced who was killed off 20:55:41 great narrators are awesome 20:56:42 "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die." 20:56:58 i'm not sure I am physically capable of eating hákarl 20:57:00 it sounds scary 20:57:14 They were joking that I was definitely either mafia or really liked death 20:57:21 Did I mention Mafia won? 20:57:32 yes, you did 20:57:35 what's so scary, it's just rotten poisonous fish 20:57:44 oerjan: I have seen that quotation before 20:57:54 In a movie, that is how it is. 20:58:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:00 zzo38: apparently it's "The 2,000 Year Old Man". 20:59:12 and Mel Brooks. 20:59:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:59:50 well, i guess he'll never know. 21:02:25 -!- Guest18414 has joined. 21:07:38 -!- Guest18414 has changed nick to AwfulProgrammer. 21:13:15 the lights in my living room are now visualizing the operation of randomly chosen "turing machines" on a finite cyclic tape 21:13:52 I wonder if there are heuristics for choosing interesting machines of this sort 21:16:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:18:32 Bike: it's often the case that the undergrad-run computing club has better stuff than the CS department or anyone else 21:23:01 not in terms of hardware (since it's usually hand-me-downs) but in terms of competence and entertainment value 21:26:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:29:58 -!- Bike has joined. 21:30:49 kmc: the CS IT seems pretty good, they can wrangle the network printers and stuff. meanwhile the LUG is kinda stereotypical :p 21:38:11 how so 21:39:20 they had a sign up talking about how linux is better than windows because it's more secure but also just more fun 21:39:48 were they having an argument about which distro is better as you passed by? xD 21:40:28 stereotypes of linux user group: likes linux 21:40:30 i didn't stick around, was only there to buy my fpga from the ieee people 21:40:31 yes 21:43:01 anyway: «Decaf design's initiative aims for global synergy of design area's to "Green" an actual product, while seeking execution by exposure to producers and investors - San Francisco" 21:43:05 *» 21:43:55 area's 21:44:21 Bike, are they making coffe? 21:44:23 *coffee 21:45:00 sounds like they're trying to obfuscate that they haven't figured out what they're doing yet 21:45:53 they retweeted a reply i made that seemingly has nothing to do with any of that, and had already retweeted a bunch of weird stuff from strangers multiple times, so i just reported them as spam 21:45:59 this will be very effacious i'm sure 21:46:19 efficacious* i dunno i love that word 21:48:58 ecoffeacious 21:49:15 Echo-feces-ous 22:24:15 -!- S1 has joined. 22:26:38 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 22:49:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:23:59 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:24:03 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:25:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:28:21 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:46:39 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:47:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:47:49 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 23:55:32 http://c431376.r76.cf2.rackcdn.com/38376/fnins-07-00014-HTML/image_m/fnins-07-00014-t001.jpg hardest of the core 23:56:17 huh LUTs as RAM 23:56:24 what did you compile 23:56:59 not me yet :( it's a neural simulator, most of the ram is axonal properties 23:57:52 hmm, I read neural stimulator and thought you were building some kind of mind-computer interface 23:58:48 what you are seeing is just the escaped AI simulating Bike to throw us off while it conquers the world. 2013-09-22: 00:00:58 "bikes, of course, are completely natural" 00:17:11 Should I watch Farscape, or should I watch Star Trek Voyager's "Threshold" superimposed with The Last Airbender movie? 00:17:35 farscape 00:17:54 why is this even a question you are asking 00:18:12 Because I wanted to be silly? 00:18:23 I'm bored, might watch some Farscape, or might not, not sure 00:18:34 (The second option isn't a real option, as I hope was obvious) 00:19:28 it wasn't 00:19:48 yes it was 00:20:43 quiet you 00:21:41 Would you rather be forced to watch "Threshold" or The Last Airbender movie? 00:22:19 considering one is ~40 minutes long and the other is probably at least two hours... 00:22:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:25:44 Sgeo_: watch threshold then watch some farscape 00:26:02 don't encourage him 00:26:15 he'll watch threshold, they always watch threshold 00:26:22 THRESHOOOOLD 00:28:32 i thought you were different olsner 00:28:38 but now i see you are just a swede 00:29:17 why would I be different? 00:29:48 they deleted DMM's wikipedia page :( 00:29:53 well you didn't seem as terrible as every other swede 00:29:59 -!- Bike has joined. 00:30:06 i assumed you'd been abducted at birth from norway or finland or somewhere 00:39:03 and the IWC page has an AFD... 00:40:49 It is why making the other Wikipedia, you can join them together in case of things deleted from Wikipedia so you can access both kinds 00:58:23 I should resume watching Ghost in the Shell at some point 01:03:22 no you should resume watching farscape 01:03:30 i swear it's like people commit to not finishing it 01:05:42 Eh, I prefer shades of grey to black and white. I think I'll go watch Farscape instead 01:06:42 Hmm, I don't remember watching "Taking the Stone", but Amazon thinks I've watched it 01:07:00 immaterial; it's shit 01:07:20 ? 01:07:35 Oh, I stopped watching in the first few minutes 01:08:49 Phantom_Hoover: are you saying to skip it? 01:09:28 yes 01:09:47 especially since crackers don't matter is the next episode 01:10:29 Ok 01:20:02 Another use of zero length array in C may be type identification in macros. 01:20:51 they're also useful if you want to keep track of 0 of something 01:21:32 nooodl: Well, if the zero isn't a literal, then perhaps yes. 01:23:21 The main use as described in the GCC manual, is to make a array at the end of a structure, which you do not know the size until it is allocated. 01:24:12 However there are some other uses too. 01:24:36 Do you know of any others? 01:24:52 zzo it... would probably help if you'd give context before saying things like Another use of zero length array in C may be type identification in macros. 01:25:00 (They also do not have to be at the end; it can be useful at the beginning or whatever too) 01:25:50 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:26:41 Phantom_Hoover: Doesn't it describe already in those sentence, though? 01:28:11 Well... no, you hadn't said what the first use of zero-length arrays is. 01:28:13 i think Phantom_Hoover means: you said "another use ..." without a first use being mentioned 01:28:43 (but i guess you meant "beside the main use" which you described afterwards?) 01:28:56 No, I just mean, another use, in general. 01:30:40 What I mean by type identification in macro may be something like: typedef struct { char x[2]; } Two; typedef struct { char x[3]; } Three; typedef struct { Three type_id[0]; ... I haven't actually tried it though 01:31:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: sleep). 01:42:25 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 01:44:54 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:52 Phthat was narmy 01:54:51 Oh he left 02:07:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnyte). 02:14:13 `slist 02:19:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:40:59 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:04:43 It is not equinox quite yet! It is tomorrow. 03:31:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:32:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 04:56:40 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:58:24 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:01:35 -!- audioPhil has joined. 05:01:35 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 05:01:35 -!- audioPhil has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:42:42 In a hardware programming language I think it make more sense for numbers without a prefix to be in binary. What is your opinion? 05:43:14 mostly that verilog literals are super awkward and i can imagine almost any change as an improvement 05:43:21 i found out vhdl has a nice "others" thing 05:44:29 in Verilog, you create std_logic_vectors using double quotes 05:44:34 "0111010" or whatever 05:44:39 and yeah, you can use "others" to abbreviate 05:44:57 (0 => '0', 1 => '0', others => '1') 05:48:48 * in VHDL, 05:49:00 yeah it took me a while to get but it seems nice 05:49:31 (my instructor/supplier doesn't know verilog but is moving his course to it for some reason, so all the old interesting files are still vhdl) 05:52:27 VHDL syntax is both verbose and bizarre 05:52:29 I didn't know of the "others" 05:52:38 but it normally does contain some way to do what you want 05:52:53 What does (0 => '0', 1 => '0', others => '1') do, exactly? 05:52:55 it's super verbose, yeah 05:53:01 you should look up the syntax for a multidimensional array sometime, it's ridiculous 05:53:18 zzo38: it means a constant where bits 0 and 1 are 0, and the other bits are 1 05:53:51 the constant itself is polymorphic to different bitwidths and data types (it'll work for anything that has a 0 and a 1) 05:53:52 it's like an associative array. 05:54:01 ais523: OK I understand. 05:54:07 like a vector of bits, or of std_logics 05:54:13 polymorphic constant huh... i've been wondering about that in verilog 05:54:13 Still it is different than how I would design, a lot. 05:56:37 My own design is different, you can see how it compares and what features you like and hate and neutral. (I called it "HWPL") I put what I think is better for a hardware programming language; these things are different than what would go in a software programming language. One is that - is unary fanout operator taking a single bit and making a full vector of that bit, so something like {10,-1} or {-1,01} or {10X,-Z,111Z1} or whatever can make a pol 05:56:59 Mostly so far I think I'd like more macrology stuff. 05:57:04 Instantiation seems... messy. 05:57:22 I would also like to have a lot of support of macros. 05:57:32 It is also part of my design, although I have not designed that part yet. 05:57:38 I haven't even tried parametrized instantiation yet, though. 05:57:42 gonna make me some adders 05:58:28 ais523: btw, for xilinx virtex generally has more meat than spartan, right? if you know. 05:58:47 Decimal and hexadecimal numbers would also be polymorphic in HWPL, although binary numbers (which is the default if no prefix is given) are fixed. Do you like this kind of ideas? 05:59:14 Bike: I've heard of both, but can't remember which is more powerful offhand 05:59:20 I'd suspect the virtex are more powerful, though 05:59:22 I think Virtex is more powerful? 05:59:26 because most of the low-end boards used spartans 05:59:46 zzo38: well, in VHDL, a number is just a number 05:59:48 aight 05:59:55 you can store "1010" in a 4-bit std_logic_vector 06:00:01 wondering because this paper used virtex and i was wondering what i could fake on my cheap spartan 06:00:07 but you can't store 10 without converting it to a std_logic_vector first 06:00:25 you'd have to do conv_std_logic_vector(10, 4) if you wanted to specify it in decimal 06:00:48 OK 06:01:18 likewise, if you want to use a std_logic_vector as an array index (say you're accessing block RAM), you have to convert it to an integer first using conv_integer, because array indexes are integers 06:01:31 I made it differently; in HWPL there are no "numbers", only vectors; they have different properties such as static or dynamic or whatever to tell how they can be used. 06:02:04 No numbers? What about extrahardware values? 06:02:33 They will be static vectors; they can be used as numbers in macros and so on. 06:03:29 What about negative ones? 06:04:12 Bike: You'd think the Spartan would be the one that has less bling. 06:04:48 fizzie: yeah i thought that, but then i thought to myself, "what the fuck is a virtex supposed to be" 06:04:54 "I don't remember a fucking virtex city state" 06:04:59 A virtual vertex. 06:05:03 Since they are polymorphic they can be negative too, like #-42 and the compiler would make as many bits as needed for a signed integer value to use with the computer, if negative numbers are valid in such places, which it might not be. 06:05:25 But I mean, this is a value that isn't even in the hardware. 06:06:05 Bike: Yes I know what you mean; if a macro takes a 32-bit signed integer then you can get a 32-bit static vector with the high bit being the signed bit, for example. 06:06:32 Alternatively, implicit casts may be used. 06:06:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:07:41 In such case, something like #42 or $2A is a number, and 101010 is a vector, but you can implicitly cast between them. 06:07:46 That could be another way. 06:09:05 Actually, I think I like this way better; it works if the compiler requires bignums for something, too. 06:10:24 Do you like this way better? 06:10:37 sure. 06:11:20 (There is no need for explicit casts.) 06:11:59 Of course you cannot cast dynamic vectors to numbers. 06:13:02 zzo38: oh, one thing your language must have is recursive module instantiation (using if..generate in order to give a base case) 06:13:19 in VHDL, there's an obvious syntax for it, but it tends to crash compilers or drive them into an infinite loop 06:13:25 so I suspect it isn't allowed 06:13:43 working off a parameter? 06:14:53 ais523: Yes; it would need such thing in macros. Powerful macro facility is an important thing I need to have, which allows it to do that, and other things. 06:15:36 Bike: VHDL has "generics", which are basically compile-time parameters 06:15:39 or, like, template arguments 06:15:42 you'd work off one of those 06:16:08 right, right 06:16:16 verilog calls them "parameters" near as i can tell 06:16:35 yeah, VHDL and Verilog have an effectively equivalent feature set 06:16:43 just different names and syntax for everything 06:16:55 yeah :/ boring 06:17:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:20:42 it's kind of annoying taking a hardware class on all this "low level" stuff and then learning that it's super far from the realities of LUTs 06:23:41 well, a LUT is basically an arbitrary 4- or 6- input 1-output logic gate that can optionally only change on clock edges 06:23:44 Perhaps, if ? specifies macro parameters then it might be: MODULE !X(?X) .X: BEGIN IF |?X: !X(?X-#1); ... I think that would do it, isn't it? 06:24:01 plus some special cases for things like reset circuitry 06:24:55 ais523: right, well, we ain't talkin about that in class, is what's sad 06:25:26 it's a pretty simple definition, really 06:25:50 and an FPGA just lets you connect them together in various patterns (not arbitrary patterns, there are actually quite a lot of limits in practice, which is why place and route takes so long) 06:25:55 i just kind of want to know more about how the system is actually working 06:26:03 right, like i don't even know what the heck place and route is 06:26:04 together with various special-purpose blocks like multipliers and block RAM 06:26:28 http://c431376.r76.cf2.rackcdn.com/38376/fnins-07-00014-HTML/image_m/fnins-07-00014-t001.jpg from the paper i was reading earlier; barely know what this means 06:26:33 well the first stage of compile is parsing the source code, then working out what circuitry it corresponds to 06:26:42 then placement is where it figures out which circuitry goes on which place of the chip 06:26:48 and routing works out how they interconnect 06:26:54 then after that is assembly and programming 06:27:00 there are sometimes system-specific steps in between 06:27:03 If you understand my code, is it like the kind of things you meant? (Well, it contains an error; instead of !X(?X-#1); you need something like !X(?X-#1) .Y; since an I/O vector is needed) 06:27:55 anyway, there are two main ways you can use a LUT 06:28:08 either you can just use its truthtable behaviour, and have it calculate some logical predicate for you 06:28:19 or you can ignore that and just care about the clock edge behaviour, that gives you a RAM 06:28:19 But like, say I make a half adder module, a xor and and; does that become one LUT? if i have multiple half adders does it collapse them into one LUT? that kind of thing 06:28:24 (and ofc they can be combined) 06:28:36 well a LUT typically only has one output 06:28:43 so your half adder is two LUTs 06:28:51 a full adder is also two LUTs 06:29:00 because it has two outputs, and three inputs (which is ≤ 4) 06:29:17 and a LUT on a low-end FPGA can represent an arbitrary Boolean function with 4 or fewer inputs and one output 06:29:33 (higher-end FPGAs have more inputs on their LUTs, 6 or even 8) 06:29:59 i assume a LUT has more "inputs" used for programming in a truth table? 06:31:13 well you can think of it as having 4 inputs that are part of the circuit you're designing, and 16 that tell it which circuit to design 06:31:20 but those 16 are "ROM" rather than RAM 06:31:23 right sure 06:31:36 any chance for self modification? 06:31:48 very little 06:31:56 there are systems on which it's possible, but it's really complex 06:32:07 because it's optimized for read, and typically really awkward to write 06:32:17 also, huh, that means the high end luts could have 256 program inputs 06:32:27 yeah 06:32:29 is that why programming my fpga takes an amount of time that's like, noticeable? 06:32:34 the awkward to read thing i mean 06:32:41 to write*, fuck 06:32:53 one of the reasons, probably the main one 06:33:09 the other one's just a matter of bandwidth 06:33:15 mm. 06:33:17 you can only drive so much data through a JTAG cable 06:33:48 what is jtag exactly, i just sort of plug my usb in and things happen 06:33:51 Self modification would be easier on a open source FPGA anyways; once they are made then you can do a lot of things that closed source FPGAs don't do. They could compete well with existing FPGAs and I expect both kinds would remain in business; a company that does both would make a lot of sales, I suppose. 06:33:56 sorry for asking so many questions btw 06:34:11 it's OK 06:34:13 I think you should not be sorry for asking so many questions btw. 06:34:23 noted. 06:34:28 and JTAG's just a cable design + port shape, like RS232 or USB or whatever 06:34:36 What's it stand for? 06:34:39 but it's what's normally used to program hardware 06:34:47 and I don't know, but Wikipedia probably does 06:34:52 fair enough 06:34:57 I've never really needed to know 06:35:03 "Joint Test Action Group" 06:35:05 I vaguely remember that 06:35:22 "Joint Test Action Group (JTAG) is the common name for the IEEE 1149.1 Standard Test Access Port and Boundary-Scan Architecture. It was initially devised by electronic engineers for testing printed circuit boards using boundary scan and is still widely used for this application." 06:35:23 hm, apparently 06:35:31 and yeah, it's used for hardware debuggers 06:35:44 but it's used for programming too 06:35:58 I guess that makes sense. similar things. 06:36:05 basically, to debug hardware, you shift all the values out of its debug registers, and shift the test pattern for the next cycle in at the same time 06:36:17 replace "debug register" with "program register" and now you have a programmer 06:36:35 right, right 06:36:51 although typically that's a stupid way to implement it and the programming circuits are entirely different 06:37:01 heh 06:37:09 do you do anything with analog for your jobgradstudentthing? 06:37:18 ais523: Is the example I gave anything like what you meant by recursive module instantiation, and do you expect such a thing would work? 06:37:36 zzo38: well it's in a syntax I don't recognise 06:37:43 Bike: no, it's all entirely digital 06:37:46 aw 06:38:07 I did a bunch of analog for my masters degree, though 06:38:12 but not on FPGAs 06:38:45 actually, our plan for the analog stuff was hilarious 06:38:54 we needed to do Fourier analysis and the like 06:39:03 ais523: Well, after the module name is the parameters in parentheses, followed by the I/O vector, and then, if ORing all bits together in the macro parameter results in the bit being set, it will call the module again with one less. 06:39:24 so our plan was just "let's get a microcontroller fast enough to do the processing, with the best-quality A to D we can afford" 06:40:09 ugh, i made the mistake of looking up the school boards' ethernet hardware. don't understand a lick of it, and here i was thinking i knew how adcs worked 06:40:26 and I don't think that bit of the design is the bit that failed 06:40:28 looked up one of the terms used and it was a circuit thing invented by somebody who worked on squid axons in the 30s. insane 06:41:17 well the most common adc design is just a dac in a negative feedback loop 06:41:45 don't bother, i already found out i don't understand anything :( 06:42:22 Bike: Then you must learn. 06:42:25 and i was all excited to program my fpga to specifically annoy elliott 06:43:28 ais523: Does this description of the syntax help you to understand it? 06:44:01 ? 06:45:17 zzo38: yeah i'm just being dramatic. apparently the basis of much of modern technology isn't simple?? ripoff imo. 06:45:59 ais523: Can you please be more specific in your question? 06:46:15 zzo38: well there isn't a description that I can see 06:46:29 Maybe you missed it; it is written above. 06:46:56 I will repeat it: After the module name is the parameters in parentheses, followed by the I/O vector, and then, if ORing all bits together in the macro parameter results in the bit being set, it will call the module again with one less. 06:47:14 Now did you see? 06:47:35 that seems like a bit of a complex special case 06:48:11 and one that wouldn't fit the sort of recursion I actually needed (I needed to instantiate two modules, each with half the bits) 06:49:06 Yes that isn't it, although you could make it to do that too. 06:49:28 Especially if you have an implicit parameter it could 06:49:59 I don't like implicit parameters 06:50:10 I think I accidentally sequence broke in Antichamber 06:50:12 It could be explicit too 06:50:27 you could use a carry-select adder as a simple recursive example, maybe 06:51:09 kind of a shitty design but probably simple to understand? 06:51:20 by which i mean, i can understand it 06:52:17 MODULE !X(?COUNT) .X: BEGIN IF ?COUNT=1: BEGIN ... END ELSE: BEGIN !X(?COUNT/#2) .X[?COUNT/#2-1:0]; ... Of course this is incomplete but maybe it is understandable a bit 06:52:31 It probably wouldn't be quite exactly like this either 06:52:37 I don't know exactly how you mean, either 06:53:48 ais523: Is this a little bit close? Clearly it isn't quite sufficient; even the parts that aren't omitted are incomplete. 06:54:04 this syntax is hard to read and i kind of automatically hate it? 06:54:47 zzo38: well it's not as simple as my description in practice either 06:55:12 ais523: I wouldn't expect it to be; both of us just give the examples 06:56:34 It's less than a week away now 06:56:48 the apocalypse? 06:56:54 Sort of 06:56:59 Me moving to York 06:56:59 The equinox? 06:57:13 zzo38, wasn't the equinox the day before yesterday? 06:57:24 Taneb: No. 06:57:54 Oh, it was yesterday 06:57:56 I... 06:58:04 I actually watched sunrise on the equinox 06:58:11 And then went to an anime con 06:58:23 No it wasn't yesterday. 06:58:56 It is 22 Sep at 20:44 GMT. 06:59:17 Oh god that's today 06:59:22 it's moving forwards 06:59:54 That is why we have leap years. 07:00:29 The only thing I've eaten in the last 24 hours is a small chocolate cake 07:00:42 was the cake good 07:00:46 Yes 07:00:48 Yes it was 07:00:58 There was a cosplay maid service 07:01:34 I calculated the equinox using the horoscope in my computer; just now I also checked on Wikipedia to confirm and it says the same thing. 07:06:01 In Astrolog, the indications of ecliptic longitudes are colored according to the classical element they are associated with, making it very easy to see where it changes. 07:07:08 Some printed calendars also indicate exactly when the equinox is, but the one I have doesn't have that. 07:12:21 What anime con was that? 07:12:38 I have not gone to anime this year, but I did last year and may do so again next year. 07:14:59 zzo38, it was just a small local one 07:15:03 Chibi Sunny 07:15:18 It's a smaller spin-off from one of the larger local ones 07:15:52 Did they have mahjong there? Some anime conventions sometimes have mahjong. Once I brought my Washizu mahjong game to an anime convention and played against one of the other people there 07:16:43 No, they did not 07:16:51 I cannot recall ever seeing mahjong at an anime con 07:16:58 I saw Go at one, though 07:18:05 I saw shogi at one, not as a scheduled event though but something someone was doing in their spare time in the games room. I have read about ones with mahjong but haven't seen it except when I brought it once 07:18:24 I don't think I've ever been to an anime con 07:18:29 not entirely sure 07:19:16 I have once won a Magic: the Gathering tournament in an anime convention, although due to one of my opponents conceding an entire match, my score was not entered into the computer correctly. 07:19:38 I have lost (and gotten last place) in all other M:tG tournaments I have ever played in. 07:23:17 coppro: Why aren't you sure? 07:25:33 zzo38: I have gone to M:tG tournaments at conventions mostly and have not paid attention to the convention itself 07:25:46 Taneb: Do you know how to play shogi or mahjong though? Do you know how to play Washizu mahjong (from the "Akagi" manga)? 07:26:01 I do not know at all 07:26:03 coppro: Constructed, Limited, or both? 07:26:14 I can't even play solitaire mahjong 07:26:16 When I go to the convention I do pay attention to the other things too 07:27:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:28:22 Taneb: Well, solitaire mahjong can be explained in only a few sentences pretty easily. Mahjong is more complicated (although the same tiles are used). 07:28:44 And I am the worst at Go 07:29:05 I am not very good at Go either, but at least I can play. Can you play shogi at all? 07:29:13 No 07:29:21 I don't think I actually know what shogi is 07:29:25 Do you know any manga by Fukumoto? 07:29:30 I don't think so 07:30:05 Taneb: Shogi is a Japanese game which is like chess, although using flat pieces, the owner is known by the direction rather than the color, on a 9x9 board, and once you capture an opponent's piece you can on a later turn, put it back in the board as your own piece. 07:31:28 and you can promote pieces by moving them into, out of, or through the back three rows of the board 07:31:45 although most pieces just promote into golds, which aren't amazingly good, so promoting them isn't as worthwhile as in Western chess 07:31:46 I have played tsume shogi games on GameBoy and I like those kind of games (especially the one by Athena). They are like a chess puzzle, but with shogi, and you must give check on every turn. I have solved a lot of them but not nearly even half of them yet. 07:31:57 ais523: Yes, that too. 07:32:14 Shogi pieces promote to whatever is on the other side of the piece, rather than the choice like in FIDE. 07:32:50 also there's some rule that you can't drop pawns to give or block checkmate, or something like that; I can't remember the details but zzo38 probably knows 07:33:09 You cannot drop a pawn to give checkmate (you can give check, though). 07:33:19 right 07:33:20 Other pieces can be dropped to give checkmate. 07:33:28 but no rule against dropping a pawn to block a checkmate? 07:33:40 ais523: Yes, there is no rule against that. 07:33:50 also, that rule against dropping pawns to give checkmate seems oddly specific 07:33:57 I wonder why it exists, there's probably a good reason 07:34:14 Another rule for pawn drops is you cannot do so if there is already another of your own unpromoted pawn in the same column. 07:34:56 yeah, that one makes more sense though 07:35:10 also, you can't move a piece in such a way that it would be unable to move further 07:35:21 ais523: I don't know, but at least it does make interesting situations for some tsume shogi. 07:35:21 so if you move a pawn to the back rank, or a knight to the back two ranks, you must promote it 07:35:32 ais523: Yes, that is correct too; you must promote it and cannot drop it there 07:36:01 and dropping a piece in the promotion zone isn't enough to promote it 07:36:05 (otherwise people would do that all the time) 07:36:33 Yes, that is also correct. It must move. 07:38:01 Some of the kind of situations I describe means that the defending player should not always promote a piece that is strictly more powerful when promoted (flying chariot (rook) and angle mover (bishop)) 07:38:36 I am not a very good strategist 07:39:15 I am a good strategist for some games. 07:39:29 (including Dungeons&Dragons game, but also including some computer games) 07:42:16 zzo38, have you ever heard of the tabletop RPG Diana: Warrior Princess? 07:42:20 I think some people on this channel who did not know mahjong once said it is as confusing as Mornington Crescent. Well, I can tell you that it isn't. (Search the logs) 07:42:24 Taneb: No. 07:42:33 It's a silly one 07:42:52 The premise is "What if Xena: Warrior Princess was made in 2000 years time and set in the present day?" 07:43:17 I'm going to try to GM it when I get to uni 07:46:28 However, I sometimes overSicilian them. 07:47:48 Do you want your character to worship the god who shall not be named because it is difficult to pronounce? 07:49:52 It is the god of my character, at least. 07:55:24 When I gave the DM several suggestions that would make the game much more difficult, he has suggestion I design the campaign templates and then he will adjust it to his use. I partially do so; some things I purposefully keep hidden from myself! 07:55:49 :) 07:57:37 Even though he makes up situations which he believes to have no solution, somehow I always find them anyways; he isn't being "diabolical" enough (when I explained things to him even in contexts completely unrelated to the game, he has called my ideas "extremely diabolical" simply because he cannot think of it himself, I suppose). 07:57:53 And he is an intelligent person! 07:58:16 Isn't it? 07:59:30 I don't think I'd enjoy being in a game GM'd by you, I'd probably get trapped in a small room with a hatch 40 feet up with only a rake 08:00:31 If you managed to do so, it would probably be your own fault for not being sufficiently careful. 08:00:44 Or for making incorrect assumptions. 08:00:45 That's not so hard; it depends on how many toothpicks you are given. 08:04:46 Yesterday there was a team Adventure Time quiz 08:05:02 In my team neither of us had actually watched Adventure Time 08:05:08 We scored I think 8/12 08:06:48 I know that I have invented some puzzles on computer games, where the people who wrote the rules for the game, also being very good at the puzzles, gave up after several tries. 08:07:44 (Even viewing the source codes for the puzzles, which I encouraged; this tends to deceive people even more despite being written clearly.) 08:09:23 There are some kind of puzzle games that I am very good at. (Others I am pretty bad at, however.) 08:12:11 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:14:10 Incorrect assumptions are made, such as: Healing potions and kill enemies potions are good for you, wind potions are bad for you, BIG_MONSTER is evil and you should kill them, certain objects cannot be pushed, a key should be collected right away, Hell is not in Norway, most rooms have yellow walls, and other things. 08:25:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:37:05 -!- carado has joined. 08:38:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:34:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:46:45 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:53:23 Isn't Hell in Jamaica 09:56:53 Cayman Islands, sorry 10:04:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:16:56 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:20:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:27:23 -!- carado has joined. 10:29:27 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:22:50 http://catpad.net/michael/apl/ 11:37:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:06:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:06:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:10:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:15:31 -!- atriq has joined. 12:15:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:15:38 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:16:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:16:09 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 12:19:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 12:21:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:21:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:32:28 -!- olsner has joined. 13:46:15 -!- olsner has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:47:55 -!- olsner has joined. 14:09:49 -!- atriq has joined. 14:11:26 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:15:36 -!- Ngevd has joined. 14:17:56 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 14:18:15 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:31:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:31:57 -!- atriq has joined. 14:34:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:34:49 Hi! 14:34:51 Al Zimmermann has announced his latest Programming Contest "Graceful Graphs" http://azspcs.net/Contest/GracefulGraphs 14:34:58 Is anyone entering? 14:41:18 i don't get it, can't you just have a depth one tree with 0 as the root 14:43:08 oh, you don't need the vertex labels to be contiguous, i gues 14:46:09 It appears to be the same problem as optimal sparse rulers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_ruler 14:49:08 Isn't Hell in Jamaica <-- no it is most definitely in norway. just had their yearly blues festival. 14:56:47 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:27:11 -!- Ngevd has joined. 15:28:54 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:35:42 -!- augur has joined. 15:56:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:02:27 -!- conehead has joined. 16:07:30 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:12:34 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:12:37 -!- atriq has joined. 16:19:16 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 16:25:38 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 16:33:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:44:51 -!- conehead has joined. 16:52:09 My brother has suggested that the "Attribute Zone" game might be easier to understand if played on an actual NES/Famicom system. 17:00:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:15:48 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:40:44 -!- carado has joined. 18:08:25 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:21:57 zzo38: I dunno 18:32:55 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:36:32 coppro: Then what do you think it is? 18:36:40 to be more likely? 18:36:54 Do you know anything about it at all anyways? 18:36:59 Have you programmed Famicom? 18:37:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:44:25 -!- trout has changed nick to function. 18:45:52 -!- atriq has joined. 18:46:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:46:34 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 18:49:19 zzo38: I'm pretty sure I've done constructed 18:49:27 I don't think I've done limited 18:49:51 You haven't done Limited? I only do Limited. 18:55:52 not at a convention 18:56:47 The conventions I was in offer both kinds 19:00:56 -!- conehead has joined. 19:13:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 19:13:52 -!- carado has joined. 19:17:08 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:17:33 -!- augur has joined. 19:18:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:25:22 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:29:57 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:41:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:56:03 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:56:23 in prolog grt_than(sucC(0), 0). grt_than(sucC(A), sucC(B)) :- grt_than(A, B). I don't see why grt_than(sucC(sucC(0)),0). is false 19:57:20 because the difference is false 19:57:30 grt_than(suc(X),0). 19:57:33 erm 19:57:36 is greater than 1 19:57:43 That doesn't look completed to me 19:57:52 you just say 19:57:55 1 > 0 19:58:13 and 1 > 0 => 2 > 1 19:58:20 you never say that 2 > 0 19:58:24 ah, right 19:58:34 The new Al Zimmermann programming contest seems easier than usual. Unless I've missed something http://azpcs.net 19:58:45 now to figure out how to do this with only 2 clauses 19:58:57 21:57:29 grt_than(suc(X),0). 19:59:08 ANY successor is greater than 0 19:59:13 ooooh 19:59:15 good point 19:59:41 Yes I suppose that would make it completed. 19:59:43 thanks! 20:00:08 i really like the idea of prolog, but i'm just plain stupid when it comes to io 20:00:36 i think i made a valid deadfish interpreter in prolog, but i'm too dumb to process strings :D 20:01:00 in the wiki is none last time i checked 20:05:51 Hm, Wolfram Alpha is really useful for answering mathematical trivia questions. 20:06:12 Like "what is the ratio of the surface areas of the moon and the earth" 20:10:06 vorpal catches up with the world circa 4 years ago 20:10:32 Phantom_Hoover, I never really found a use for W|A until now indeed 20:10:58 useless numerical trivia is basically the primary feature of WA 20:11:19 I guess that and solving integrals for homework 20:12:48 unit conversions are also convenient. and good for homework. 20:13:34 unit conversions are basically a subset of numerical trivia 20:14:42 Hrm. I wonder if anything is going to break real bad if I just dd-clone a GPT disk (1T, partitions on the first 240G, rest unallocated) onto a smaller (512G) disk, and then swap it in place of the original. (E.g. is the disk size recorded in the GPT disklabel or something.) 20:15:20 fizzie: there's GUIDs 20:15:32 you're not meant to duplicate a GPT disk like that because the identifiers are meant to be unique or whatever 20:15:50 I don't know if it'll actually explode as long as you don't let the original disk within a ten mile radius, but there are scary warnings telling you it's bad around the internet. 20:15:58 Mhm. 20:16:11 there's probably GPT-specific cloning tools that correctly reassign identifiers and stuff? 20:16:33 Well, I mean, I could just recreate the partitions with gdisk, they'd get random GUIDs. 20:16:46 What I'm wondering is if that'd mess up the Windows living on the disk. 20:20:16 fizzie, I suspect you would need the GUIDs to not vary if you want Windows to work, as for doing it to a smaller disk, do the partitions fit on the smaller disk? 20:20:25 Yes. 20:20:34 (240 is less than 512.) 20:21:15 Also you are not allowed to connect both drives in the same device after you cloned the disk, at least Windows will not like it. 20:21:21 I forgot what actually happens if you try it 20:21:29 Well, that's not an issue. 20:21:43 I guess you could try cloning it, and see if it works 20:21:45 I could dd over the network so that the two disks are never in a single computer simultaneously. 20:21:52 if it doesn't, then you could just try cloning it another way 20:22:01 Well, there's that. 20:22:12 fizzie, why are you moving to a smaller disk btw? 20:22:27 The 512G disk is a SSD, the 1T disk is not. 20:23:08 Wikipedia's list of GPT headers doesn't seem to have any size information, though it mentions there's a copy of the disklabel "somewhere". (With my luck, at the opposite end of the disk.) 20:23:12 fizzie, Ah, Windows may or may not like a change like that. At least I doubt it will be using TRIM properly unless you change some settings 20:23:40 "The values for current and backup LBAs of the primary header should be the second sector of the disk and the last sector of the disk" well naturally. 20:24:00 Ah 20:24:00 I guess I could try use some sort of proper Windows solution of backup-reinstall-restore. 20:24:08 Good luck with that 20:25:00 elliott, what about putting GPT disks into RAID 1? Surely that means that there are technically duplicate disks? 20:25:46 Not if both disks have their own GPT disklabel and different partitions that work as the RAID backing-storage. 20:25:56 fizzie, I meant hardware RAID 1 20:26:17 I suppose that's no problem since it's not something the OS logically sees? 20:26:25 hm true 20:26:46 I guess OSes are in their right to store a map from the GUIDs to every physical thing about the disk they know. 20:26:58 so in theory things could explode. 20:27:19 Well it probably won't, except that TRIM might not be used automatically 20:27:22 That is my guess 20:27:35 wrt the backup block at the end though, hrrm 20:28:05 fizzie, https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=154057 20:28:13 Haven't read it, just saw the title on searching 20:28:15 fizzie: anyway perhaps you should clone the disk and then smash the old one to pieces. 20:28:22 think of it like teleportation. 20:29:14 There's some sort of lifehacker.com guide about migrating Windows to a smaller SSD drive, that seems a Windows-native solution 20:29:27 Or just for backup, keep it 20:29:52 fizzie, it seems there are issues with migrating to a smaller disk indeed 20:30:18 Of course that seems to use some sort of "EaseUS Todo Backup" software that I'm not terribly sure I want to bother with. 20:31:06 It does claim that rerunning the Windows Experience Assessment will turn on TRIM and stuff like that. 20:34:12 There's some other guide that uses Windows' own "create a system image" backup tool, then reinstalls Windows on the SSD and does a system restore. I suppose my options are either trying the clone thing (with whatever GPT backup disklabel move with gpt expert options nonsense) or something like that. 20:35:47 fizzie, yeah it seems like that link I posted shows you how to solve it wrt. dd 20:36:25 fizzie, I guess you would need to do this if you expand the disk too 20:40:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:45:09 -!- Koen has joined. 20:46:15 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:46:15 -!- Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:16 -!- Koen_ has changed nick to Koen. 20:55:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:57:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:11 hmmm...!!! 21:08:15 -!- Zathur has joined. 21:12:04 -!- Zathur has left ("Saliendo"). 21:12:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:23:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:25:09 A few days of Z-Comp remains, actually. 21:25:40 anyone know how to hack HackEgo back? >:) 21:27:01 Sgeo_, Fiora Homestuck update 21:27:05 `slist 21:27:20 HackEgo's missing 21:27:22 :( 21:27:39 oerjan: I don't know, but things like `slist can still be used, and will work if they are filtered on the client-side instead of server-side. 21:27:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:28:25 I will still enter `danddreclist when it is updated even though HackEgo won't respond, so if you want to be notified you have to configure your client to do so instead, please. 21:29:40 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 21:32:15 wait, the lists are gone? 21:33:06 HackEgo is gone. 21:33:19 a worthwhile sacrifice 21:34:16 more like exile, really. 21:35:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:35:36 HackEgo is still connected though so it can still be accessed. 21:36:02 And the lists can still be used like how I described. (In fact I described it even before HackEgo was gone but you didn't believe me.) 21:36:46 i didn't disbelieve you. i just didn't see the point. 21:37:08 Well, now you should see the point. 21:39:00 I'm going now 21:39:03 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:43:51 -!- augur has joined. 22:17:54 -!- function has changed nick to variable. 22:19:04 Is the guru still meditating? 22:19:55 What guru? 22:23:17 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 22:44:51 Welp, that's passing strange: the clone method seems to have worked. 22:53:07 what are you cloning 22:53:55 A 1T HDD with a GPT disklabel, Windows 8 and EFI boot stuffs for Debian, onto a 512GB SSD. 22:54:00 The sordid details are in the log. 22:54:24 cool 23:04:47 slow riot for new zero kanada 23:07:25 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 23:14:00 we need a new /topic, this one has lasted alarmingly long 23:15:14 OK 23:29:25 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:31:21 why am i reading wp's list of common false etymologies 23:31:21 they're all cringeworthy acronyms 23:33:20 link 23:33:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_false_etymologies 23:33:42 (they're not all acronyms but they're all cringeworthy) 23:34:56 now make a list of cringeworthy _true_ etymologies. 23:35:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: topic undergoing maintenance. 23:38:04 also, what's that "norwegian fukka" the article mentions, i suspect that should be old norse instead. 23:38:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:38:45 -!- oerjan has kicked Phantom_Hoover He removed the log link. 23:38:52 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:39:08 -!- oerjan has set topic: topic undergoing maintenance | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 23:40:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:41:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:12 copumpkin: wow, so bored on a sunday afternoon that you're picking fights with internet libertarians? ;) 23:49:31 try librarians instead. 23:51:57 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 2013-09-23: 00:18:04 kmc: lol 00:18:15 genuinely curious how people explain things like that 00:18:25 boredom or libertarianism 00:18:26 I have plenty of explanations I'd propose, but am still wondering 00:20:16 is the question "why do libertarians tend to be well-off white dudes" cause I don't think that one is very difficult to explain 00:22:10 yes 00:22:25 :) 00:23:27 what do you think of futarchy, copumpkin 00:23:58 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:24:06 is that some sort of japanese thing 00:25:00 kmc: seems interesting 00:25:00 nah, it's something something prediction markets 00:25:18 let me try to put my finger on a concern though, or read more and find it's handled :P 00:26:59 http://fabiensanglard.net/rayTracing_back_of_business_card/ wat 00:27:26 instead of voting on policies, you vote to determine a social utility function, and then use prediction markets to pursue policies which maximize that utility function 00:27:37 I don't know much more than that summary, but it's a cool idea anyway 00:28:43 Bike, can you not just print it really small 00:29:04 what's the point of a business card you can't read! 00:29:13 it's cool 'cause it uses the ability of markets to optimize stuff, but without the libertarian assumption that what markets optimize 'by default' is fair or good 00:29:42 my concern is that it isn't just gov't that could affect the things being bet on 00:29:52 it could create perverse private incentives to make programs fail 00:30:31 this page calls typedef "define" and a struct a class. okay, then 00:31:11 hah, !v for normalization 00:31:55 Bike: well struct and class are nearly the same in C++ 00:32:19 the only difference is that structs have public visibility by default, while class has private visibility 00:32:31 oh, i didn't think you could have inheritance with structs 00:32:40 presumably the author used 'struct{' because it's shorter than 'class{public:' 00:32:52 nope, you can do all the same things 00:33:55 copumpkin: true 00:34:58 Bike: This also means that class{public: ... } is just a struct. :) 00:35:19 Assuming no methods. 00:36:00 C++ has this separate concept of "Plain Old Data" for things that are like C structs, but they can still have (non-virtual) methods 00:36:56 arguably a lot of C structs are not Plain Old Data either, it's just that the language provides no way to express this 00:39:14 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 00:39:25 for example you might say that it should be safe and reasonable to clone a POD object with a simple memcpy(), which does not hold for many C structs 00:39:56 like what? 00:40:00 I don't know if that's part of the generally used definitions of POD, though 00:40:48 Bike: say your struct contains a pointer to a reference-counted object 00:41:02 you need to increment the refcount when you copy the struct and hence the pointer 00:42:09 in C++ you would express this by using a smart pointer (like std::shared_ptr) for the field, which will make the struct non-POD 00:42:15 oh, so like, semantics 00:42:31 the neat thing is that the default constructor and destructor in C++ will still do the right thing 00:42:41 for some reason i thought not being able to memcpy at all 00:43:02 ah 00:43:47 because i am bad at c++ 00:44:04 C++ is so cool 00:45:14 it's ugly and archaic and it's complex to the point of being nearly unusable, but everything does fit together and exist for a reason 00:45:25 It's my favorite esolang. 00:45:28 :D 00:45:35 (did you get that meme from me?) 00:45:39 kmc: money is just too powerful! :P 00:45:51 (probably, but the sentiment was just too good to leave to one man) 00:46:12 yay 00:46:16 memes want to spread 00:46:53 I might try to design an esolang with region pointers, once I learn how the hell they work 00:47:07 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:47:15 region pointers? 00:47:53 Rust's "borrowed pointers" have a "region" or "lifetime" attached which says how long the pointer is guaranteed to remain valid 00:48:00 it's part of the type 00:48:20 usually inferred, but you can name them if you want, which means you can return these things as well as take them as arguments 00:49:03 struct Foo { x: int } fn f<'t>(foo: &'t Foo) -> &'t int { &foo.x } 00:49:16 takes a pointer to a Foo, returns a pointer to the int inside, which is valid as long as the original pointer was 00:49:34 huh. 00:49:46 i think i'm with you re: not knowing how the hell they work 00:49:58 rust <3 00:50:34 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:50:39 and since they're like type parameters you can also parametrize data over them, e.g. to make a vector iterator which is parametrized over how long the original vector lives 00:52:34 sounds pretty serious for an esolang, though 00:53:03 in Rust they also track mutability; if you have a borrowed pointer of the immutable sort, you know that nobody else can mutate the object while you're using it through that pointer 00:53:33 the aliasing rules are strict enough to guarantee that 00:54:13 and so if you borrow a mutable thing as immutable, the compiler will "freeze" it for the duration of the borrow, which is a static typechecker thing except for garbage-collected stuff, which needs to be frozen dynamically 00:54:54 myname: well it might be an esolang or it might just be a toy language for my understanding 00:55:02 depending on whether it can be made interestingly perverse 00:55:13 Region-C or Region-fuck. 00:55:18 for example what if the only data you have is region pointers, and you need to do basic arithmetic using regions somehow 00:55:28 I don't know enough about it to say whether that is a coherent idea 00:55:33 kmc: how do you distinguish between eso and toy? 00:56:02 esolangs are designed to be interestingly weird and difficult to use 00:56:13 ah 00:56:19 so... where is J? 00:56:28 I don't consider Brainfuck to be a "true esolang" because although it's very minimal, and hard to use for that reason, the concepts it uses are straightforward and familiar 00:56:41 and it was designed not to be difficult but to have a very simple compiler 00:57:08 that definition of esolang is way too restrictive IMO 00:57:10 J isn't supposed to be difficult to use. 00:57:39 I wonder if APL counts as weird in context. I mean, A Programming Language didn't have a whole lot of competition. 00:57:44 lol 00:57:47 Not to mention, Brainfuck is fairly easy to target. 00:58:45 Maybe I should write an article on the wiki on Chaitin's "lisp-with-apl-character-set" bullshit and that can be my first article. 00:59:11 I guess the whole compiling to diophantine equations thing is pretty esoteric. 00:59:28 the hell? 00:59:40 Right. 01:01:12 why should anybody wants to ADD apl character set to something? 01:01:32 It's not added. There aren't alphanumeric characters. Or multi-character identifiers. 01:01:40 (hope this helps) 01:02:26 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:02:27 I should rewatch the ending of season two of ATLA 01:02:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:16:11 whats that 01:32:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:33:36 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 01:37:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:43:06 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 01:53:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:59:10 _o/'`\o_ 01:59:10 | | 01:59:10 /< /`\ 01:59:48 that right one looks like he got a boner 01:59:57 he's raising his dongers 02:00:39 lots of people on efnet used to hate on me because they thought i was you btw. just sayin :) 02:00:52 huh? 02:00:58 i never was on efnet 02:01:09 must be one of the nets with another myname 02:01:09 ah, must be a different person with the same nick then 02:01:28 i am surprised i got it here tbh 02:01:40 the other myname was a script kiddie, at least at one point 02:01:52 oh dear 02:01:55 myndzi, please turn off the `? stick figure 02:02:02 `? 02:02:06 ? 02:02:34 hackego has been kicked for now, but you know the one i mean 02:02:34 myname: either way, this is gonna get confusing, hahaha 02:02:41 i don't, actually 02:02:45 i don't know what was bound to `? 02:02:52 ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:02:52 | 02:02:52 º¯`\o 02:02:57 That one. 02:03:42 er, you mean the whole script? or just that smiley 02:03:53 that smiley 02:04:03 why's that? 02:11:25 because it triggers whenever hackego turns up a blank in the wisdom db, and triples the line count 02:17:27 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 02:20:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:20:54 that sounds like a hackego problem to me :P i can block that line or something if you like 02:21:13 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:46 ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:21:46 | 02:21:46 º¯`\o 02:23:05 ah, i see 02:23:13 i don't know what hackego is supposed to do in most cases :P 02:23:57 \o/ \o/ 02:24:13 you can make any line ignored by leading it with ^k69^o 02:24:22 for what it's worth 02:25:30 actually, anywhere in the line now. should be simple enough to tack on the end or something for specific cases 02:25:41 \o/ \o/ 02:26:36 isn't the typical solution to block HackEgo from your bot 02:26:53 i would, but people store things in it that are intended to trigger my thing too 02:27:09 the ignore thing was already there, i use it for other stuff 02:28:34 -!- HackEgo has joined. 02:28:53 Fix YOUR bot, dick. 02:28:57 -!- HackEgo has left. 02:29:03 har. 02:30:06 well my solutions are: ignore hackego entirely (undesirable), disable that specific smiley (undesirable), write code to ignore that specific line (undesirable), disable entirely (undesirable) 02:30:26 compared with essentially saying 'i explicitly don't want this particular smiley to trigger the thing' 02:30:47 The first is desirable. 02:30:59 okay then 02:31:00 And if anybody WANTS your bot to respond to HackEgo, it is THEY who are undesirable. 02:31:05 haha 02:31:09 i was thinking about things like `celebrate 02:31:22 not just the `? deal 02:31:32 I stand by my previous statement. 02:31:36 -!- HackEgo has joined. 02:32:46 test \o/ 02:32:53 silly mirc 02:33:45 `? aoeu 02:33:47 aoeu? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:34:02 all set \o/ 02:34:03 | 02:34:03 >\ 02:39:53 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 02:54:10 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:59:02 * kmc fights the urge to pick fights with Haskell zealots on Twitter, which is still more sensible than copumpkin picking fights with libertarians 02:59:10 lol 02:59:23 haskelliots 02:59:38 * copumpkin doesn't really get kmc's anti-haskell-community revelation 03:00:00 there are zealots but just avoid them and take all the good, smart people who spend all their time learning about cool new stuff 03:00:05 and not frothing at the mouth :P 03:00:14 well I found it very hard to avoid them in #haskell 03:00:31 #haskell-lens is quite pleasant 03:00:33 maybe there are other outposts of "Haskell community" which are better 03:00:55 it's supposedly about lenses 03:01:03 I realize it's actually #haskell-edwardk 03:01:05 but has ended up being just a friendly place to talk about cool stuff 03:01:06 yeah 03:01:09 I did join a while back 03:01:09 but everyone else uses it 03:01:15 but left when my client restarted or something ;P 03:01:21 he hasn't been around much recently 03:01:35 my specific complaint lately is "Rust doesn't have higher-order polymorphism? well it must be shit and I will repeat that opinion forever without bothering to learn anything else about it" 03:01:42 I dunno if I would get that attitude in -lens or not 03:01:58 I doubt it, but shachaf is around more than I am 03:01:59 :) 03:02:09 not that I don't want higher-order polymorphism in Rust... 03:02:34 most of the haskellers I respect have stated that they find rust interesting and would probably use it for systems code 03:02:42 the others haven't said anything much about it :P 03:02:45 ok 03:03:06 keep in mind that there's about 1 person in that group, and that's me 03:03:09 err 03:03:10 I mean 03:03:16 haha ;P 03:03:29 it would be cool if some of the many Haskell libraries that include C code could switch to Rust 03:03:35 :) 03:03:44 we'd just need some support in cabal for building rust code 03:03:44 and it would be cool to have a high level FFI between the languages, e.g. something which preserves algebraic types and memory management 03:03:46 I'd love that 03:03:49 yeah 03:04:06 it's something I'd vaguely like to work on, but I'm probably too lazy to do anything more than a proof of concept 03:04:11 how many high level FFIs even exist? 03:04:12 rustc is such a moving target too 03:04:13 I know the feeling :) 03:04:20 do they have a fixed calling convention? 03:04:22 it may not be worth Cabal trying to sync up with it at present 03:04:28 we're only just getting rustpkg off the ground 03:04:52 I don't know how fixed the Rust calling convention is, but you can also call in and out of Rust with the C calling convention 03:05:02 ah 03:05:14 and Rust structs are defined to be C compatible 03:05:20 so in unrelated news, i just learned a proper use of subgraph isomorphis. gotta get cracking on that eodermdrome interpreter now. 03:05:26 kmc: are you on the rust team? 03:05:32 so there's no need for C glue or "find the offset of everything" preprocessors a la hsc2hs 03:05:46 no I'm working on Servo, which is the ~only big project in Rust besides rustc itself 03:05:49 ah 03:05:56 Bike: :D 03:06:34 "or put another way, there are already eodermdrome interpreters running in the chemistry department" 03:06:43 lol 03:06:45 so which application is this? 03:07:22 Bike: well RPC mechanisms which allow nested key-value structures as values are pretty common 03:07:23 big molecules are, unsurprisingly, represented as graphs. chemists sometimes want to search for submolecules. 03:07:27 you could consider that a high level FFI 03:07:59 wikipedia says it's a "common misconception" that it just does regex search on a linearized form, though. i shudder for chemoinformaticians 03:11:57 copumpkin: writing rustc in Rust is kind of questionable... on the other hand, writing the Rust runtime system in Rust is fucking awesome 03:12:13 I bet :) 03:12:15 what's Servo? 03:12:32 a new web layout / rendering engine with an emphasis on parallelism 03:12:41 https://github.com/mozilla/servo 03:13:04 oh yeah 03:13:06 I remember that 03:14:41 also an emphasis on security through memory safety, eventually, but it's kind of a joke to claim that at the moment 03:14:55 since we use C libraries for a bunch of stuff, and lots of unsafe Rust code for various other reasons 03:15:02 ah 03:15:34 what part of servo do you work on? 03:15:53 whatever needs doing; it's a small team 03:15:59 ah 03:16:26 actually most of the commits to date are from Rust people; having a separate team for Servo is a new thing 03:16:29 so do you have a full html parser in rust? 03:16:30 of course we still work together closely 03:16:38 no, that's one of the things we're using a C library for at present 03:16:40 ah 03:17:08 HTML / CSS parsing, image decoding, JavaScript are all in C 03:17:27 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:17:28 we would like for it to all be Rust but the priority varies by component 03:17:46 for example we'd like to replace the CSS parser soon because it performs poorly (or rather, the CSS selector matching part of the library does) 03:18:03 and we'd like to replace image decoding soonish for security + robustness 03:18:20 (if an image decode fails within Rust code, we can easily catch that with the usual Rust task failure mechanisms and recover) 03:18:21 what HTML parser do you use? 03:18:28 hubbub 03:18:32 right 03:18:39 I started working on Haskell bindings to hubbub years ago. I forget why. I gave up. 03:18:49 it's doubtful that we will ever replace SpiderMonkey with a production quality JavaScript engine in Rust 03:19:15 cause that's an incredible amount of work, plus the security benefits are murkier 03:21:21 we need to do something about the fact that new versions of SpiderMonkey have only a C++ API and not a C API :( 03:23:36 Rust more than most languages could support a "first-class" C++ FFI, but it would still be a huge pain 03:24:15 what makes an FFI "first-class"? 03:25:15 well in this case I mean that we can map many C++ features to directly analogous Rust features, while most languages can't because they don't have any analogous feature 03:26:01 like if your C++ API uses RAII then it's hard to map it directly to most languages, but plausible that we could do this for Rust 03:26:09 ahhh 03:26:13 does the C++ spidermonkey API use C++y features? 03:26:24 I'm told it does use RAII at least; I haven't looked into it 03:26:29 RAII is running code when a variable goes out of scope? 03:26:39 but it sounds like our job would be harder than just "auto-generate an extern "C" for each of these prototypes" 03:26:58 Erm, hmm, guess not 03:27:11 does it use exceptions? like. what happens if initialization fails 03:27:19 Sgeo_: the RAII idea is implemented by running code when an object is destroyed (which could happen by a variable going out of scope, yes) 03:27:22 All I'm thinking is that in Tcl, you can have code run when a variable is unset, which includes if it goes out of scope 03:28:21 Sgeo_: the core idea is that having some object represents that you've acquired some resource (e.g. opened a file or taken a lock) 03:28:47 Mutex m; { Lock l = m.lock(); ... } 03:29:03 you don't need to call any unlock() method because it will happen automatically when you leave that scope, even if you leave due to an exception 03:29:27 (or by invoking 'return' deep inside some branching control flow) 03:29:53 so in this instance it's similar to Python's 'with' statement and other stuff in a lot of languages 03:30:29 but it's more general because the object representing the acquired resource doesn't *have to* live on the stack with lifetime synced to a single function call 03:30:48 you can put that Lock in a heap allocated object 03:31:00 Should be doable in Tcl I think. And Tcl doesn't have automatic GC, although with most OO systems for Tcl including TclOO, you can specify destructors 03:31:16 or if you want to refcount the retention of the lock, put it in a std::shared_ptr 03:31:20 etc 03:31:20 Actually, by 'most' I mean, I'm only certain about TclOO 03:31:28 how does Tcl free storage if not GC? 03:31:40 Reference counting. 03:31:44 Well, strings are GCed, sorry about that 03:31:46 ah 03:31:49 Or, well, reference counted. 03:31:55 Tcl's native value type, being strings, cannot be circularly referenced. 03:31:58 But anything mutable (variables, namespaces) aren't GCed 03:32:09 heh 03:32:44 Oh, and strings are immutable 03:33:17 yeah, it might be possible to map RAII nicely into refcounted systems with destructors 03:33:22 I haven't thought about it 03:34:05 a lot of gc'd systems provide some kind of hook to call when something is destroyed 03:34:16 kind of a bad idea to use it for raii, though 03:34:18 yeah but if it's true GC, that doesn't happen at any particular time 03:34:20 right 03:34:36 plus it might just not happen at all sooooo 03:35:01 "Note that destructors are not called in all situations (e.g. if the interpreter is destroyed)" 03:35:24 :/ 03:35:33 lol 03:35:56 I should note that in Tcl, 'interpreter' is not synonymous with 'running program' 03:36:05 So it's not as lolzy as it sounds 03:36:11 is it still something sigkillable 03:36:27 A Tcl program can invoke sub-interpreters 03:36:31 And control them 03:36:54 I think that's how Tcl does threads 03:56:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:57:19 I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics? 03:58:13 -!- dessos has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:03:38 i want to frame you 04:05:43 For what? 04:06:37 wrong sense of "frame" 04:07:30 It doesn't matter what sense, it doesn't answer, what? 04:07:56 in this sense "for" is meaningless. 04:08:20 Well, why do you want to? 04:08:38 because that's a great question. 04:10:49 But yours isn't a very good question. 04:11:43 :( 04:39:23 Numerology stuff is as silly as, if you had a computer program that calculates the MD5 hash of the current date/time and treats it as a machine code address and jumps to it. Isn't it? 04:39:56 it is. 04:40:39 (Maybe this comparison can even be used to make a idea to make a esolang) 04:44:47 Do you have a better kind of comparison (if there is one)? 04:45:52 i don't need a comparison because one time i saw a book about how santa was satan and was going to end the world, and it wasn't a joke 04:46:46 Yes some people do stupid things like that 04:53:42 It is certainly stupid but it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with numerology. 04:55:52 Oh it was all based on numerology. s+a+n+t+a added up to 666 or whatever. 04:56:32 Well, of course anagrams do too, then. 04:57:18 (Although, so can things other than anagrams. Anagrams are one class of words that do.) 05:01:27 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:04 These and other divinations can be described by two things: artificial correspondences, and the improper use of these correspondences. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:08:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:15:50 -!- Bike has joined. 05:56:17 "Be careful with this message. Similar messages were used to steal people's personal information. Unless you trust the sender, don't click links or reply with personal information. " 05:56:27 But I trust FedEx *sends personal info* 05:56:35 Maybe that message should be reworded? 05:59:03 or maybe you shouldn't have sent them personal info :) 05:59:16 mostly that would depend on whether it really was fedex or not 06:02:21 If you need the service from FedEx, then ignore the message and send it to FedEx using the telephone book or whatever instead of that message perhaps. 06:02:47 If you do not need the service from FedEx, then ignore the message and don't send your personal info. 06:09:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:34:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:39:05 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:39:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:39:59 Why do I sometimes get error about IRQ not less or equal? 06:40:12 What does sdIv:;aL{l*h?[?Q4-xiYf9QSi3U&7edDCVZ3z god help you 06:42:13 Well, I will sleep now anyways. 06:42:34 the IRQ less or equal error is a symptom of bad RAM, usually (it would be interesting to learn why it causes some assert about an IRQ to fail though) 06:42:46 While I am writing now (after the crash), all these four lines starting with "W"; do you know that? 06:43:08 olsner: I used the RAM test program and it says the RAM is OK. 06:44:01 hmm, I'm out of prepackaged answers then... maybe it's just a bug of some kind 06:44:08 OK 06:44:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Client Quit). 06:45:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:48:36 -!- atriq has joined. 06:49:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:49:03 -!- dessos has joined. 06:49:04 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 07:03:19 @tell Buggy drivers, sometimes. The "official" answer is at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms854226.aspx 07:03:19 Consider it noted. 07:04:36 olsner: See above; IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is the (very self-explanatory, I'm sure) error message you get on generic memory access violations in kernel mode, more or less. 07:06:39 (The number it's checking is not exactly an "IRQ" number but a sort of a privilege level: http://mikemstech.blogspot.se/2011/11/how-to-troubleshoot-blue-screen-0xa.html lists them.) 07:37:03 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:41:19 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:41:24 -!- tromp__ has joined. 07:53:22 -!- mnoqy has joined. 08:08:56 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 08:09:48 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:22:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:23:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:35:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:51:14 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:21:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:36:32 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:45:23 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 10:40:36 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:48:08 -!- Koen has joined. 10:52:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:53:35 do we have a language where the only data structure is an unbounded integer accumulator? but with sufficiently arithmetic operations to make it turing-complete 10:56:22 though I guess if you give it too many arithmetic instructions it becomes too easy, as you can make a simple stack of "digits" in base B with push x ::= (acc = acc * B + x), drop = (acc = acc / B) and pop = (acc % B) 10:56:30 hmm 10:57:42 not sure how to make a deque though; in order to access the top digit you need a way to store (or compute) the number of digits 11:07:06 Koen: a "single" unbounded integer accumulator? 11:07:31 if you meant two or more (but the fixed number of) accumulators, there it is: http://esolangs.org/wiki/NULL 11:07:37 otherwise I don't know. 11:07:41 Koen, Fractran's pretty close 11:08:04 lifthrasiir: well if you got two that's close to a minsky machine right? 11:08:08 right 11:08:15 depending on operations 11:10:15 interesting 11:25:13 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:32:47 * oerjan hugs HackEgo 11:33:33 what do you mean i never hug real people. 11:37:36 Hi, oerjan 11:37:41 How are you doing 11:38:04 back pain :( 11:39:54 @tell myndzi fortunately ^celebrate is on fungot, not HackEgo 11:39:55 Consider it noted. 11:39:55 oerjan: from where does the hero alone have the power. " m, madam...! i am the master of war! i've seen all kinds of battles from here, step back, prometheus! 11:41:27 fungot: what can you say about sword stopping 11:41:27 oerjan: but cyrus! are you leaving! ayla like crono! what should we do?! robo, don't waste your time. alfador only likes you, crono! 11:41:44 fungot: that doesn't seem very relevant to swords. 11:41:44 oerjan: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 11:42:28 -!- updog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:42:56 fungot: You're all about tricycles. 11:42:56 fizzie: shall we get back to the present? he's been known. we reptites will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... 11:43:09 This thing is really repetitive. 11:43:27 I had a good idea for a fungot dataset except it was something in Finnish. 11:43:27 fizzie: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 11:43:43 istr someone suggested finnish already. 11:43:45 oerjan, I hope your back pain lessens 11:43:57 Taneb: well i just took some pain killers. 11:43:59 Yes, but it was some specific Finnish thing. I forget what it was exactly. 11:44:42 clearly kalevala 11:45:03 I think it was something from the Institute. 11:45:24 then fungot could be all highbrow and only the finns would understand it. 11:45:24 oerjan: the masamune!? noooo!!! ha! 11:45:35 (The "Institute for the Languages of Finland"; we're helping them with some audio things.) 11:45:43 fungot: There, that's a sword. 11:45:44 fizzie: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! we must do it to save you! who the heck are you?! c'mon!! 11:46:57 fungot: what about trying excalibur instead. 11:46:58 oerjan: as long as you keep crono in your heart, the day of lavos"... go to " leene square" 1000 a.d.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope. 11:47:33 They have a 1456658-word corpus of Finnish classics from 1880s to 1930s, that would be a highbrow Finnish thing to do. 11:47:46 But I don't really think so, there's books enough in it already. 12:02:00 apparently there's still an official head of the tokugawa clan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Tsunenari 12:02:52 -!- Roujo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:04:13 -!- Roujo has joined. 12:16:27 -!- Roujo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:19:15 -!- Roujo has joined. 12:56:19 Grumble frubmle Praat does not play audio. 12:59:39 -!- boily has joined. 12:59:54 good it-happened morning! 13:01:14 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:06:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:12:25 -!- Roujo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:12:50 -!- Roujo has joined. 13:14:19 Roujo: おはよう! 13:19:11 -!- Roujo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:20:21 -!- Roujo has joined. 13:29:48 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:33:03 -!- Roujo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:34:18 `pastewisdom 13:34:22 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:34:23 -!- Roujo has joined. 13:35:45 @tell Phantom_Hoover e2 to e4??? 13:35:54 right. lambdabot is dead. 13:39:17 by the way, what happened to the topic? 13:40:02 Codepoint fatigue. 13:40:07 It broke down under the load. 13:46:06 it was indeed getting pretty long and vetust. 13:47:04 boily: psst it's a pun on "pawn" 13:48:20 you and your non-rhotic English dialects... 13:50:40 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 13:50:55 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 13:50:55 -!- audioPhil has joined. 13:51:51 -!- carado has joined. 14:06:50 `addquote I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics? 14:06:55 1108) I am curious to know, how many Wiccans hate daylight saving time compared to Roman Catholics? 14:07:02 someone requested a framing. 14:09:30 the quote is added, the PDF updated, the yerba mate dranked, but what has DST got to do with Wicca? 14:10:54 that is all part of the zzo38 mystery 14:10:58 `quote mystery 14:11:00 367) as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw quintopia: I am at Canada. 14:11:26 hm did i actually put a double space when i said that? 14:11:28 -!- boily has set topic: Topic undergoing maintenance | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:11:43 `pastelogs I am at Canada 14:12:09 probably a manifestation of QILDSR. 14:12:17 wat 14:12:20 (Quote Inter-Locutor Double-Spacing Reflex) 14:12:30 OKAY 14:12:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24462 14:13:06 indeed i didn't. 14:13:23 `run sed -i '367s/ No output. 14:13:31 `quote mystery 14:13:33 367) as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw quintopia: I am at Canada. 14:13:57 spurrious mimic evolutionary double spacing, which means I probably misformated the quote... 14:17:02 anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes 14:17:25 @tell quintopia anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes <-- WOW YOU WERE PSYCHIC 14:17:29 oops 14:18:13 we may have a bot absense number constancy situation. 14:18:50 fungot: do you know where lambdie went? 14:18:50 boily: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind? marle lucca 14:18:59 and then they will try to correct the spacing, and we must undo it 14:19:04 I PSYCHIC TOO 14:19:46 who do I complain to if I want lambdabot back? 14:20:00 elliott. 14:20:21 elliott: ↑ LAMBDABOT! NOW! please :) 14:21:21 i must regretfully point out that elliott has been idle for 8 hours. although may mean he'll wake up about now. 14:21:25 *+that 14:22:23 @localtime elliott 14:22:36 * boily facepalms... 14:23:56 elliott is in the UK, which uses DST, so he's on UTC+0100, which is 5 hours later than here, so it's around 3:22pm there. 14:25:23 you appear to be making the mistake of assuming sane sleeping schedules for #esoteric regulars. 14:26:04 boily: おはよう! I managed to red that!| 14:26:07 read* 14:26:12 Also, yes, it happened! =D 14:27:11 oerjan: well. I know for a fact that Taneb has sleep issues, and that my own schedule is sane, so with that population sample it's 50/50 either way with elliott. 14:27:53 Roujo: seems the Universe didn't collapse... 14:28:23 boily: Not so far, anyway. Which is good. 14:31:56 boily: hm this quote change happened at around the time i did a major formatting check on the quotes, so it quite possibly was my fault. 14:33:10 oerjan: the end result was inconsequential. I happen to have read the quote, and having that dangling verb there made no sense, so I figured it was a single quote. 14:33:26 indeed it was my fault. 14:33:29 otoh, I did have parsing trouble with the django shenanigans. 14:33:32 * oerjan swats himself -----### 14:33:39 oh... that's a first! 14:33:40 Django daikasoku 14:33:50 boily: that's incredibly intentional. 14:33:54 boily: no it's not. 14:34:16 Roujo: infâme et odieux personnage que tu es! how dare you earworm me on a Monday Morning! 14:34:39 boily: There you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puHyO5JNOE0 14:34:41 oerjan: it... happened before? fascinating. 14:34:52 Roujo: won't click. 14:35:00 It's a remix, really 14:35:07 Well, more of a mashup, I guess 14:35:08 (at least for the next hour. I'm einstein on the beaching my ears) 14:36:35 boily: i've been stupid before, you know. 14:37:23 `pastelogs swats himself 14:37:24 -!- updog has joined. 14:37:37 -!- yorick has joined. 14:37:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.600 14:39:17 `pastelogs swats herself 14:39:23 there's even a pre-lengthening one. 14:39:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19841 14:40:23 and, on top of that, only male self-swatting. 14:40:45 There's something to be said about that somewhere, but I can't figure out what 14:41:10 i think that can be explained by the fact we rarely have more than one active female in the channel. 14:41:22 and sometimes none. 14:41:26 “it's not the length of the swat that counts...” 14:43:47 boily, I have sleep issues? 14:44:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:44:21 * oerjan spots an updog 14:44:39 hm the updog must be defective. 14:44:39 what's updog? 14:44:45 Taneb: iircbpn, you talked about that stuff some months ago. 14:44:53 (iirc but probably not) 14:45:07 ~duck updog 14:45:07 what's updog? 14:45:07 Software description: a command line tool for getting weather forecasts - written in Ruby (Ruby). 14:45:30 metasepia: you appear to be confusing updog with yourself 14:45:30 what's updog? 14:45:37 glad to know that Ruby needs to be explained by itself. 14:45:51 also, ruby with haskell. 14:46:01 updog: or do you actually do weather forecasts? 14:46:01 what's updog? 14:46:34 boily, I think I just have a tendency to nap 14:46:43 And I'm not good at lie-ins 14:46:47 elliott: wait does that mean you're awake now. 14:47:17 oerjan: this updog is connected from somewhere around Buffaly, NY. 14:47:17 what's updog? 14:47:30 s/ly/lo/ 14:48:27 boily: hm... i guess it isn't elliott, i don't think he'd bother with strange ip's. 14:49:05 who are the new yorkers in the channel that haven't relocated to san francisco. 14:49:34 elliot's asleep 14:49:42 `? elliot 14:49:45 No one was ever called Elliot. 14:49:50 Fiora: ^ 14:49:52 elliott is also aslep. 14:49:55 asleep. 14:50:06 Fiora: well he might be waking up about now. 14:50:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Waiting for elliott | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 14:50:59 If it helps I could cause a large explosion 14:51:12 `? godot 14:51:14 godot? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:51:38 `run echo "c.f. elliott" > wisdom/godot 14:51:42 No output. 14:51:51 as recorded in the File, people from the East Coast are: jsvine, ... 14:51:57 well. seems to be the only one. 14:52:04 `run echo "cf. elliott" > wisdom/godot 14:52:05 oh! quintopia. 14:52:08 No output. 14:52:31 oerjan: so yeah. quintopia is the Most Probable Updogger. 14:52:42 figures. 14:52:56 always with the laughing matter that one 14:53:59 If it helps I could cause a large explosion <-- i'd like you to link afterward to the hexham newspaper where you explain why you did it. 14:54:38 Taneb: could you cause a pretty explosion, instead of a large one? 14:54:51 boily: but that might not wake up elliott! 14:55:28 Last I saw elliott, he made a mermaid out of me 14:55:30 So meh 14:55:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:55:32 =P 14:56:04 Roujo: what exactly happened yesterday? were you connected and active on the Chännel during a Weekend? 14:56:21 Roujo, I think that was me 14:56:23 boily: I'm always connected. 14:56:35 boily: what's updog? 14:56:35 what's updog? 14:56:36 Taneb: Well, elliott turned me into a mermaid, you just made me realize it 14:56:47 Oh 14:56:51 Oh well 14:56:51 stop copying me updog 14:56:51 what's updog? 14:57:13 boily: did you send things to gorham 14:57:50 quintopia: no, I was busy with either my SO, or visiting Lachine at night and doing unspeakable things with another Unnämed Channel Member. 14:58:09 quintopia: mind you, the cookies are bought, I just need to go to the post office. 14:58:37 i am already at gorham 14:58:47 I'm getting late... :( 14:58:51 you'll have to send to andover, me now 14:59:15 oerjan: can you lend me your swatter, so that I can undergo penience for my sins? 14:59:29 Lachine is best Chine 14:59:35 quintopia: oh well. can you send me your new coördinates? 14:59:54 oerjan: swat boily for too much diaeresis 14:59:57 >doing unspeakable things with another Unnämed Channel Member 14:59:57 wat 15:00:06 @tell Buggy drivers, sometimes. The "official" answer is at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms854226.aspx <-- i don't think Buggy will understand that message. 15:00:11 Roujo: he he he. 15:00:34 boily: Don't start any rumors now >_> 15:00:45 s/nien/nan/ 15:00:59 Roujo: bin voyons dont. voir si je suis pour partir des rumeurs :D 15:01:17 s/nan/nyan/g 15:01:40 * oerjan helpfullÿ swäts boily -----### 15:02:15 tack. 15:02:52 tjänare. 15:03:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:03:35 hm it seems not to mean what i thought it meant. 15:04:35 *ingen orsak 15:06:02 boily: david rutter/general delivery/andover, me 04216 15:10:51 @tell Koen there's also the single-register machine described at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minsky_machine 15:11:16 Noted. 15:11:24 darn. 15:12:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Laterally). 15:12:17 -!- conehead has joined. 15:26:41 -!- lambdabot has joined. 15:35:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:35:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:37:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:39:14 ~metar CYUL 15:39:30 Wait, did I mess that up? 15:39:44 ~metar EGNT 15:39:58 @tell oerjan lambdabot is back. hth 15:39:58 Consider it noted. 15:40:07 CYUL 231500Z 30010KT 15SM BKN031 11/04 A3004 RMK CU6 SLP175 15:40:07 EGNT 231520Z 11006KT 080V190 9999 FEW019 20/14 Q1022 15:40:10 Ahhhhhhh 15:40:12 There we go 15:41:53 Which one of those is the temperature 15:43:45 Why would you want the temperature? 15:44:27 I think it's 20/14 15:45:32 That would make sense, yeah 15:45:35 11/04 15:45:43 It *is* cold-ish out there 15:45:49 * Roujo gazes out the window 15:51:12 -!- atriq has joined. 15:53:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:01:41 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:02:17 -!- Bike has joined. 16:02:36 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:03:38 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 16:03:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:10:50 oerjan: yeah but that's not turing-complete is it 16:24:49 no 16:26:50 -!- augur has joined. 16:52:05 -!- S1 has joined. 16:55:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:56:18 ~metar EFHK 16:56:19 EFHK 231650Z 02010KT 9999 -SHRA FEW011 BKN014 10/08 Q1001 BECMG SCT014 BKN030 16:57:04 "BECMG" -- for people who can't afford vowels. 16:57:13 (Okay, there's one.) 17:03:39 -!- Bike has joined. 17:12:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:17:38 back from lunch, and it's -SHRAing in Helsinki. 17:18:25 shra, eh 17:26:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:27:12 boily: It's raining in Shanghai. (Disclaimer: it might not, this is a reference.) 17:27:26 ~metar ZSSS 17:27:27 ZSSS 231700Z 15004MPS 9999 FEW013 26/23 Q1011 NOSIG 17:27:39 fizzie: sadly not. this is not a reference. hth. 17:27:52 (what is an MPS?) 17:27:57 ~duck MPS 17:27:58 mps definition: meters per second. 17:28:00 oh. 17:28:05 boring. 17:28:15 Well, the local weather forecast says it will rain on Wednesday, that's close enough. 17:28:16 I'd much prefer for it to be Miles per Second. more dramatic, imho. 17:30:08 Moons/sec 17:30:59 megaluns per second! 17:32:06 MegaParsecs/Second 17:32:09 `frink 4 miles/second -> km/hour 17:32:16 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536) 17:32:37 In related news, Frink's interpretation of "km/h" was kind of curious. 17:32:40 `frink 4 miles/second -> km/h 17:32:48 ​ Conformance error \ Left side is: 804672/125 (exactly 6437.376) m s^-1 (velocity) \ Right side is: 1.5091904506831453200e+36 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Suggestion: divide left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions. 17:33:07 kilometers per henry? 17:33:15 speaking of curious things, I had that Most Wonderful Cola during lunch. 17:33:23 boily: The dead one? 17:33:37 Roujo: I don't drink dead cola. 17:33:47 I guess that would match the henry, right. 17:33:48 So you drink alive cola, then? 17:33:52 `frink 4 megaparsec/second -> km/hour 17:33:59 Roujo: of course. only the freshest. 17:34:00 4.4433757170802496930e+23 17:34:12 `frink 4 miles/s -> km/hr 17:34:19 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536) 17:34:34 `frink 4 mi/s -> km/hr 17:34:42 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536) 17:34:43 Shorter and shorter. 17:34:48 `frink 5 megalightyear/milisecond -> km/hr 17:34:49 are you golfing unit converstion? you freaks. 17:34:57 Warning: undefined symbol "milisecond". \ Warning: undefined symbol "milisecond". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 47303652362904000000000 m (length) milisecond (undefined symbol)^-1 -> 5/18 (approx. 0.2777777777777778) m s^-1 (velocity) 17:34:57 s/st/s/ 17:35:03 `frink 5 megalightyear/millisecond -> km/hr 17:35:12 170293148506454400000000000 17:35:26 Somehow that sounds wrong 17:36:03 `frink 1 lightyear/year -> km/hr 17:36:11 1.0792759005937356714e+9 17:36:29 Why did it use scientific notation for this but not for that >_> 17:36:57 `frink 4 mi/s -> km/h 17:37:01 Oh wait 17:37:05 ​ Conformance error \ Left side is: 804672/125 (exactly 6437.376) m s^-1 (velocity) \ Right side is: 1.5091904506831453200e+36 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Suggestion: divide left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions. 17:37:11 Gregor: because 170293148506454400000000000 is the Not Quite Exactly Number of the Beast. 17:37:14 `frink 4 m/s -> km/hr 17:37:16 ​/hackenv/bin/frink: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `exactly' \ /hackenv/bin/frink: line 1: `14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536)' 17:38:02 何 17:38:11 `frink 4 mi/s -> km/hr 17:38:13 `cat bin/frink 17:38:15 ​#!/bin/sh \ exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "$@" 17:38:19 14484096/625 (exactly 23174.5536) 17:38:47 the "dummy programs with Unicode in the name" thing is getting really old. 17:39:01 its all unicode :< 17:39:06 u kno 17:39:10 what the heck 17:39:22 ... This is only the second time I've done it, elliott >_< 17:41:09 Roujo: you need to find something more... obscure. something that will slip past behind the Ever Examinating Elliott Eyes. 17:41:34 I guess don't really have anything on-topic to do here, anyway, so I can see how that could be annoying 17:41:37 Sorry 17:41:40 Anyway, have a nice day 17:41:53 -!- Roujo has left ("Off I go!"). 17:42:20 `run echo 'echo hi' > bin/`printf '\xcc\x8a'` && chmod +x bin/`printf '\xcc\x8a'` 17:42:25 No output. 17:42:33 `̊ 17:42:34 hi 17:46:18 lol, outstanding 17:46:28 Combining mark, yeah? 17:47:19 COMBINING RING ABOVE 17:47:24 The insta-angel character. 17:50:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:59:53 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 18:03:44 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:03:48 eh? 18:04:08 come on, connect, you damn bot... 18:04:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:06:11 Does anyone know if there is a command line tool to mess with mount namespaces under Linux? 18:06:29 what do you mean about a mount namespace? 18:07:01 I don't mess with that stuff but I think I've stumbled upon the tool 18:07:07 You know that different programs can have different set of visible mount points right? Used for stuff like virtualization, but Android also uses it for security 18:07:12 (hth) 18:07:20 olsner, happen to remember the name? 18:07:23 -!- Bike has joined. 18:07:28 -!- metasepia has joined. 18:07:46 ~metar ZBBB 18:07:47 --- Station not found! 18:07:50 ~metar ZUUU 18:07:51 ZUUU 231800Z 00000MPS 4000 BR NSC 21/19 Q1013 NOSIG 18:08:11 Vorpal: "unshare" is one tool that's slightly relevant. 18:08:14 hm 18:08:59 fizzie, I'm basically lookint to set up a unionfs on / (and other partitions as required) to do a checkinstall/fakeroot on stereoids 18:09:06 Vorpal: something with mount --make-{share,slave,private}? 18:09:36 "unshare" runs a program with mount (or other) namespace privatized, so that whatever changes you do won't affect the parent. 18:10:05 boily, err what? Looking at it it looks potentially different, but I have no clue what that stuff is 18:10:22 fizzie, that looks like it could work 18:10:32 Vorpal: result from a quick google search. I have no idea what it implies, but there's documentation on IBM.com and C code with PAM. 18:11:12 checking the man page I'm confused 18:11:17 The share/slave/private thing is fancy, but indeed slightly different. I've forgotten exactly how it worked, but it was relevant to what's visible from where through what bind mounts. 18:11:27 heh 18:11:53 "Apparently their firewall is blocking access to certain file types." the dav saga continues 18:12:42 It's a kind of a thing where you can mount a tree in such a way that if you mount it with "shared" in one place, and as "slave" in others, then mount something else inside the master location, the slaves will see those same mounts. 18:13:02 Normally you'd of course need to e.g. explicitly bind all new mounts you make inside the master. 18:13:09 I seem to recall that Maemo uses that feature. 18:13:17 Or Meego, or some other thing in that family. 18:13:29 huh 18:13:31 neat 18:13:33 Or some mobile thing anyway. :p 18:14:45 ah, the Maegozen mess... 18:15:28 I guess it's sort of related to mount namespaces in that there you could easily have a need for shared mounts in addition to private ones. 18:16:06 There's some sort of a thing where you have per-login namespaces, and whan e.g. a user's sshfs mounts be visible in all sessions of that user. 18:16:17 (Man, modern things are so complicated.) 18:16:51 sshfs on my system is visible across the board from what I can see 18:17:07 Yes, I don't think per-login namespaces are exactly commonplace. 18:17:08 Not usable by others unless you pass -o allow_root or some such flag 18:17:10 can you chain sshfses across multiple machines? 18:17:18 Probably 18:17:18 when you sshfs mount something with default options then root "can't" access it, which is strange 18:17:35 kmc, I know, which annoyed me a lot when doing rdiff-backup on my phone 18:17:41 boily: you mean sshfs mount a remote filesystem which has sshfs mounts? yes of course 18:17:44 I've done it 18:18:01 Going to be slow though 18:18:06 not necessarily 18:18:26 my favorite thing about Linux namespaces is the number of security holes created by allowing unprivileged users to create them 18:18:39 kmc, unprivileged users can create them? heh 18:18:48 yeah that could cause loads of issues 18:18:56 kmc: I mean having an sshfs mount that tunnels through one or more machines to get to a distant one. 18:19:00 well it's a newish feature, don't know when it's enabled 18:19:07 I heard android 4.3 uses SElinux as well. 18:19:09 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:19:23 that whole namespace stuff sounds like something that should increase security, not create more holes 18:19:34 olsner: sure if it has no bugs 18:19:45 but it's a ton of new code which breaks a bunch of longstanding assumptions 18:20:06 http://lwn.net/Articles/543273/ hey this looks like a cool article 18:20:07 They should have unit tests and such... Hm, are there automated testing suits of any kind of the kernel? 18:20:21 lol you can't find security holes that way Vorpal 18:20:31 they should have automated tests just to prevent security *regressions*, which do happen 18:20:31 testing is for wimps. failures should be spectacular! 18:20:32 true, but you can find bugs 18:20:34 Vorpal: Incidentally, the clone thing from last night worked on the first try, after gdisk expert-mode fixing the disk-size and backup header fields. (Also bumped the Windows Experience Index score up by two points or something.) 18:20:35 but it's nothing near a solution 18:21:27 fizzie, nice, my desktop scores like 7.5-7.9 on everything but the disk, which caps the whole thing to 5.4 or some such 18:22:04 fizzie, funnily it is my SSD in my work laptop that caps it's score too to 6.8 or some such. That is an Intel 520 SSD 18:22:38 Other than that it scores like 7.1-7.3 iirc 18:22:48 Vorpal: Same here. I think I have 7.9 from all other categories (though it goes to 9.9 these days), except the disk was 5.x; now it's 7.1. (It's not the fastest possible SSD.) 18:23:28 Heh 18:23:36 fizzie, 9.9 is Windows 8 I presume? 18:23:45 Yes, it's an 8 install. 18:23:52 Right 18:24:03 Wonder if 8.1 is going to bump those up even more. 18:24:06 fizzie, how terrible is it? 18:24:31 I keep starting Chrome every now and then because it's at the left edge of the quick launch bar where a start window would be. :p 18:24:41 hm 18:24:49 fizzie, apart from that? Do you hate it? 18:25:22 Well, honestly I don't really use it all that much. Certainly it works okay for basically running Steam. 18:25:29 Hm 18:25:46 I've installed Emacs on it and whatnot, but I'm not entirely clear why I bothered. 18:26:23 Heh 18:26:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:26:34 did you hear they're doing a steam os now 18:26:46 Steam OS? 18:26:48 Really? 18:26:53 I presume it is a Linux distro? 18:27:03 Anyway, when did they announce that? 18:27:14 Windows 8.1 is going to add a start menu and a straight-to-Desktop boot option, which I guess will make the UI more "usual". I'm not a real fan of the start screen. 18:27:18 i don't think they've said but it's the only viable candidate 18:27:22 Vorpal, today 18:27:23 -!- conehead has joined. 18:27:25 «Imagine that, Valve decided that the "environment best suited" to Steam is one it owns and controls fully» 18:27:31 Ah 18:28:47 ~duck valve 18:28:48 valve definition: '''archaic''' a leaf of a folding or double door. 18:28:54 nailed it 18:29:02 "Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014." 18:29:11 "SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen." i guess that's straightforward 18:29:12 Bike, that, er, seems a bit hyperbolic what with the linux part 18:29:16 fizzie: 8.1's start menu isn't actually a menu. 18:29:20 fizzie: it just brings up the start screen. 18:29:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:29:36 Phantom_Hoover: eh android's pretty controlled 18:29:44 Bike, how locked down will it be though? 18:30:17 Bike, yeah but is it really 'owned and controlled fully' by google (i don't know how android works) 18:30:19 fizzie: personally I used http://www.startisback.com/ to make Windows 8 like bad old Windows when playing around with it in a VM. YMMV on whether you can bring yourself to pay for a start menu. 18:30:33 elliott: Oh? Well, I guess that's okay too. I can just think the screen is a big menu. 18:31:07 The living-room is family territory. That’s great, but you don’t want to see your parents’ games in your library. Soon, families will have more control over what titles get seen by whom, and more features to allow everyone in the house to get the most out of their Steam libraries. 18:31:18 Phantom_Hoover, Android is kind of controlled, kind of open. The source is open, the play store, is not. Nor is the development towards the next release until it is released. 18:32:05 "You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!" 18:32:12 That streaming stuff seems really popular these days. 18:32:20 Doesn't Nvidia keep doing that kind of thing too? 18:32:22 "mac games" heh 18:32:32 fizzie, well onlive folded iirc 18:32:53 Yes, but I mean locally-inside-the-house kind of stuff this time. 18:33:02 I doubt there are many games on mac that are not on windows. I know of a couple, and they are really really old. 18:33:25 Shield streams games from a PC too, AIUI. 18:34:15 And I guess they have the GRID project. 18:34:19 Hm 18:34:25 Which one is GRID? 18:34:34 Nvidia's own Onlive-style thing, I think. 18:35:03 Bike: porn games right 18:35:10 that must be it 18:35:15 u know it bro B) 18:35:19 c.c 18:35:30 got to keep the nude mods out of sight 18:35:31 I'm not entirely sure if they were going to run the service too or what; at least it's a family of hardware for running a "cloud gaming" service. 18:36:02 Ah 18:36:35 I thought the idea was that steam was going to stream from a PC in your house 18:36:38 "When service operators use NVIDIA GRID as the foundation for their on-demand Gaming as a Service (GaaS) solution --" 18:36:49 gonna play me some leisure suit larry on the biiiiig screen 18:37:01 Bike: With the biiiiig pixels. 18:37:07 Fiora, yes, that's what fizzie was initially talking about 18:37:10 foo as a service is pretty great 18:37:48 Service as a Service. 18:40:56 food as a service 18:45:28 The background on the SteamOS page -- http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/ -- looks kind of like the Land of Wind and Shade. (I'm about 3000 pages behind in Homestuck, incidentally.) 18:55:29 don't worry, it's all downhill from there 18:57:51 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:58:58 s/downhill/uphill 18:59:14 / 18:59:21 thanks for completing my regex -_- 18:59:31 you need the trailing slash for sed, man! 19:00:09 also imo it's not very hilly since it's in magispace 19:02:40 the magic of paradox space! 19:03:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:04:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:09:30 someone just posted on a.l.i asking for a MarioLANG impl 19:09:44 (mentioning it here, because I imagine most of you don't read a.l.i) 19:13:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:14:05 -!- Bike has joined. 19:18:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:19:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:19:39 "How much are they paying?" 19:21:38 fizzie, oh, you were up to the doc scratch intermission? 19:22:28 Phantom_Hoover: I think I was up to something like that, yes. 19:33:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:37:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:06 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 19:49:54 gcc has become impressively good at emitting calls to optimized functions that don't exist 19:53:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:16:01 ~yi 20:16:01 Your divination: "Great Possessing" to "Sojourning" 20:21:05 ~yi 20:21:06 Your divination: "Small Exceeding" to "Sojourning" 20:24:02 ~yi 20:24:05 Your divination: "Grouping" to "Returning" 20:24:15 ah. I was worried it was stuck on sojourning. 20:25:18 ~yi 20:25:19 Your divination: "Returning" to "Gnawing Bite" 20:25:40 boily: what are these from 20:26:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:26:09 nooodl: I Ching. 20:26:39 is I also written ~yi or something? 20:26:46 I Ching... is that the weird two-player game where you've got to draw a path with othello-like tiles? 20:27:08 imagine my confusion when I looked up in the sky to see a bunch of tiny clouds spelling out the word "CLOUD" in big letters 20:27:10 olsner: depends on the romanisation. 20:27:27 (skywriter advertising) 20:27:35 kmc is stalked by fractal clouds. 20:27:41 that sounds very pkd 20:27:46 yeah 20:27:47 Koen: never heard of that. 20:28:09 my usual tagline is "stupid cyberpunk future" but this is less cyberpunk and more like Hofstadter and PKD dropped acid together 20:28:43 Koen: there's this game played with a go board and stones, where both players use black stone at first, then one of them decides during the game to play white. 20:29:13 everything in this city is trying to sell me clouds of various shapes 20:29:34 olsner: apparently, my divination relates to having freedom transformed into vacations or something. 20:29:43 I think I'm due for a quick trip abroad... 20:31:23 boily: do you mean go with the pie-rule? 20:31:30 never seen anyone play that 20:32:14 no, the goal is to make a line that connects 2 or 3 sides first. can't remember the details; I'm trying to find the game again. 20:37:22 I think it's that, but I'm vraiment pas sûr: http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/gonnect.htm 20:37:35 "gonnect" 20:37:37 SUBTLE 20:37:57 RULES - The rules of GO apply, except: 20:37:58 Players may not pass; 20:37:58 The PIE rule: White may choose as his 1st move to exchange places with Black. 20:38:12 that's why I'm not sure it's that. 20:38:17 :-) 20:38:34 though I didn't quote the remainder of the page where they explain you have to connect 2 or 3 sides 20:38:53 I *know* there's a game where you have to connect three sides. 20:42:13 hmmm interesting 20:42:41 the article says player often reach a dead-end because of mutually separated groups 20:43:04 so the game keeps going until someone runs out of moves and has to commit suicide 20:43:16 so that's basically go 20:43:47 my favourite go move is the nuclear tesuji :D 20:45:10 nay, B2 bomber 20:45:57 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:46:48 but then, nothing compares to a Swedish fuseki. 20:55:38 `frink 125 J -> L*atm 20:55:51 5000/4053 (approx. 1.233654083395016) 20:56:33 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:59:20 -!- aloril has joined. 21:04:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:05:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:09:34 Koen: yes it is. 21:10:07 @tell Koen yes it is. 21:10:08 Consider it noted. 21:10:29 I'll look into it 21:10:43 @tell quintopia anyone who sees that in the future will think it is two quotes <-- WOW YOU WERE PSYCHIC 21:10:44 Consider it noted. 21:11:32 Koen: in fact, that machine being TC is a step on the road to showing that an ordinary minsky machine with 2 register is TC. 21:11:50 *registers 21:13:55 Koen: also, fractran is basically a version of it with much simplified flow control. 21:16:21 because fractran has no persistent machine state in addition to the unbounded single register. 21:16:59 (you need temporary state to know where you are in the list of fractions, though.) 21:21:58 2222222222222222222 21:22:12 yeah 21:22:24 wat 21:23:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:26:23 * boily applies percussive maintenance on ais523 --------#̈#̈#̈ 21:26:53 oerjan: it's my standard rule that whenever I accidentally spam a lot of keys due to leaning on the keyboard in #esoteric, I send rather than delete 21:27:01 I noticed I'd been leaning on the "2" key, so… 21:27:15 i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 21:28:21 I like how a simple “plot twist” becomes «revirement de situation». sometimes, English is much more efficient... 21:29:03 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:29:24 aurgh! not again? 21:29:40 psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est 21:29:42 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:29:46 -!- impomatic has left. 21:30:01 run run, run awaaaaaaaaayyyyyy ♪ 21:30:08 oh oh oh oh! 21:30:17 ~duck psycho killer 21:30:18 "Psycho Killer" is a song written by David Byrne, Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth and first played by their band The Artistic in 1974, and as new wave band Talking Heads in 1975, with a later version recorded for their 1977 album Talking Heads: 77. 21:30:31 ba ba ba ba, ba ba ba ba ba, ba, better 21:33:07 ~metar ZUUL 21:33:08 --- Station not found! 21:36:15 ~metar ZMUB 21:36:15 ZMUB 232130Z 00000MPS CAVOK M06/M08 Q1024 NOSIG RMK QFE659.9 89 21:38:27 ~metar ENSB 21:38:27 ENSB 232050Z 14003KT CAVOK 00/M02 Q1034 RMK WIND 1400FT 26003KT 21:38:38 meh. it's colder in Ulaan Baatar than in Svalbard. 21:42:56 http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ZMUB-ENSB 21:43:35 oh, shiny! 21:44:02 ~metar UEEE 21:44:03 UEEE 232130Z 34006MPS 9999 BKN016CB OVC100 03/01 Q0997 NOSIG RMK QFE739 23190055 21:44:46 ~metar KSFO 21:44:46 KSFO 232056Z 05003KT 10SM CLR 22/13 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP151 T02170133 58016 21:45:17 and you can chain them! 21:46:10 http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=CYUL-KEWR-VHHH 21:46:21 yeah it's a cool site 21:46:36 and of course it's all nice and sunny and warm in Frisco. 21:46:39 * boily is jealous 21:46:45 don't call it Frisco!! 21:46:59 ulaanbaatar is in the middle of a continental desert, it gets super windy i think 21:47:00 bleeeeeeeeh :P 21:47:10 sorry we locals are supposed to get really annoyed when people call it Frisco 21:47:16 Bike: right now, there's no wind at that airport. 21:47:16 I don't actually know why but it's A Thing 21:47:18 what about Cisco 21:47:22 Bike: even worse 21:47:32 and yes, "Cisco" is named after the last five letters in "San Francisco" 21:47:36 Nabesico 21:48:00 the old Nabisco building in Cambridge, MA is now owned by Novartis 21:48:23 from biscuits to boner pills 21:48:42 Novartis owns all, except when property of GSK or Bayer. 21:48:48 (or probably Astra Zeneca) 21:49:33 don't think Pfizer is owned by any of those 21:49:57 Novartis is descended from the company that invented LSD 21:50:23 time to go empoison myself. 21:50:30 hmm, one of the burger chains has a Frisco meal 21:50:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BROUE!). 21:50:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:03 there's a Frisco, Texas 21:51:18 named entirely to piss off san franciscans 21:51:21 probably 21:51:55 * kmc is now looking at Dallas and Houston on a map 21:51:56 scary 21:51:58 so many freeways 21:52:16 not quite like LA though 21:56:45 * oerjan recalls looking up Frisco on wikipedia once. it actually was named after san francisco. 21:57:09 once = last couple of months, i think 21:57:48 -!- augur has joined. 21:58:08 I wonder if it's still named after san francisco 21:58:45 ~meta ENVA 21:58:52 hey! 22:00:25 ~metar ENVA 22:00:34 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:01:34 that, too. 22:02:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:02:49 "In 1904, the residents chose Frisco City in honor of the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway on which the town was founded" 22:03:38 which railway apparently never made it west of Texas 22:03:43 optimistic name 22:09:26 we had a house office named Godspeed Through Texas 22:09:34 I forget what their duties were, other than organizing Naked Run 22:11:06 i guess you'd need to speed through texas for that. 22:13:12 it takes a long time to run from california to texas, whether or not you're naked 22:14:08 tru dat 22:22:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:34:28 -!- Tomski has joined. 22:34:48 -!- Tomski has left. 22:52:20 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:19:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2013-09-24: 00:16:15 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 00:28:29 17:27 < indirect> is it normal to get "pthread_mutex_lock(&_mutex) failed in src/rt/sync/lock_and_signal.cpp at line 79, result = 22 (Invalid argument)" every other time you run rust --version ? 00:28:41 the answer appears to be "yes" 00:29:01 eesh 00:29:23 i actually get anywhere between 0 and 3 copies of that error message when i run it 00:32:33 I wonder what the distribution is, and whether it'd make a decent RNG 00:32:53 also, why would a --version need a mutex anyway? 00:33:06 (theory: it doesn't need one, but the code is trying to create one regardless, that's why it's failing) 00:34:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:36:45 yeah beats me, probably the RTS is to blame and not the --version code itself 00:46:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:50:34 -!- Bike has joined. 01:08:57 err, to lock one regardless 01:12:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:39:42 "Mencius Moldbug’s Urbit system appears to be public!" 01:40:36 http://www.urbit.org/ 01:42:18 "Nock has no “native methods” or foreign-function interface. Nor is it ever extended, embellished, forked, improved or advanced." 01:42:33 Wasn't that tried with JSON? With less than positive results? 01:42:47 Or, well, at least one negative result 01:46:34 Hm 01:46:35 "Knowing Pascal made it harder, not easier, to learn C. Knowing Haskell or Lisp makes it harder to learn Hoon. Indeed, knowing either would have made it impossible for me to write Hoon." 01:46:40 :/ 01:48:55 wasn't nock the psycho martian one 01:49:03 (wasn't moldbug the psycho) 01:50:46 " An atom is any natural number. " 01:50:51 And it's already ambiguous 01:52:28 natural number more like terribilural number 01:55:02 "We should note that in Nock and Hoon, 0 (pronounced “yes”) is true, and 1 (“no”) is false. Why? It’s fresh, it’s different, it’s new. And it’s annoying. And it keeps you on your toes. And it’s also just intuitively right." 01:56:38 so why are you reading this, and more importantly, having me personally read it 01:57:07 Could be interesting 02:00:33 wait what 02:00:39 moldbug invented a programming language?? 02:01:51 -!- augur has joined. 02:01:52 I wish I could sleep tonight 02:01:58 I have a deploy to do 02:02:20 this sounds like an esolang, at least 02:02:26 it might not be a good esolang, though 02:03:12 kmc: the world is vast and mysterious. 02:07:52 I've never heard of Moldbug, though; should I? 02:08:02 no he's just an internet shithead 02:08:16 * oerjan realizes that any dependently typed version of rust should be called zeerust. 02:09:07 oerjan: what's that 02:09:21 oerjan: apparently my supervisor hired an expert on dependent typing in response to me giving them control of the compiler I'd been writing 02:09:29 kmc: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zeerust 02:09:31 zeerust is the jetsons 02:09:50 also, did you just post a TV Tropes link? 02:10:23 ais523: hey _someone_ has to balance out your lawful goodness here 02:10:39 is that meant to balance out the good, or the lawfu? 02:10:41 *lawful? 02:10:49 both of course. 02:11:51 `slist 02:11:54 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:11:56 ais523: also, does that mean he needed a dependent typing expert to understand anything of what you did? 02:12:07 oerjan: ah nice 02:12:36 oerjan: no, or well, I doubt it 02:12:46 given that it wasn't dependently typed 02:13:01 `? slist 02:13:02 darn you missed an opportunity there. 02:13:03 Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck. 02:13:11 oerjan: it /should/ be dependently typed, really 02:13:25 so it's a natural direction to go in 02:13:37 `olist 920 02:13:39 olist 920: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 02:14:13 bleh, names would be more useful than numbers, the numbers aren't memorable 02:14:26 but yeah, that one was up like two days ago 02:14:39 the only reason 919 was so slow is that it must have been a pain to draw 02:15:01 yeah but HackEgo was down, also i just checked. 02:16:13 i thought burlew had some kind of disease, but he's been picking up lately. 02:16:51 although there was something about a thumb accident. but i thought there was something else too. 02:16:53 not a disease, it was an injury 02:17:01 but yeah, might have been something else too 02:17:17 he's been at his old pace (except with a random update schedule) recently 02:17:49 *pace 02:21:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:25:50 There was an injury recently, and a long time chronic disease 02:28:22 ??long time chronic?? 03:02:18 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 03:19:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:41:29 -!- myndzi\ has quit. 03:45:45 As opposed to long time acute, of course. 03:48:05 today is Celebrate Bisexuality Day apparently 03:50:11 there are more than 366 goals to assign days to, I think 03:50:23 so every day has quite a high chance of being represented 03:50:35 (the chance of a clash would be very large even with only 30 or so, if they're picked randomly) 03:50:53 kmc: Cheers. 03:52:25 same to you 03:52:35 ais523: yep 04:33:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:55:33 -!- glogbackup has joined. 05:01:25 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:15:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:19:52 -!- augur has joined. 05:26:34 `slist 05:26:35 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:26:39 oh. 05:26:41 it was alreayd posted 05:26:42 I am a dumb 05:26:52 gotta work on your slist game 05:30:13 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:53:11 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:00:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:15:23 -!- carado has joined. 06:27:39 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:32:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:40:42 -!- glogbackup has joined. 06:56:54 -!- atriq has joined. 06:59:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:08:14 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 07:33:33 `slist Dave and John's Hot Mom 07:33:38 slist Dave and John's Hot Mom: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 07:51:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:09:11 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:17:28 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:18:00 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:11:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:25:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:39:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:54:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:54:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:32:23 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:38:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:39:55 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:00:53 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 11:01:07 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 11:01:07 -!- audioPhil has joined. 11:35:46 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:46:44 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:27:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:30:33 @ask ais523 but which day is Birth Paradox Day? 12:30:33 Consider it noted. 12:33:03 * oerjan thinks d&d rules guy in mezzacotta is being particularly weird today. 12:33:49 i guess the moby dick guy isn't much saner. 12:34:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:34:43 hi shikhin, you seem familiar 12:34:57 `relcome shikhin 12:34:59 Oh, interesting. I didn't even know such a place existed, I was just trying out random channels. 12:35:02 ​shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:35:24 :-) Fun. 12:37:02 do you think relcome presents a misleading image of us 12:37:09 No 12:37:30 that's us as a whole, not you 12:37:34 Ah, Taneb, heard a lot about you. 12:37:56 wat 12:38:01 i once heard taneb punched a hole in the chancellor 12:38:31 shikhin: do you happen to be from hexham and/or helsinki 12:38:40 < Taneb> Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months 12:38:41 :-) 12:38:52 oerjan: No, but I know people from around (not exactly there, though). 12:39:07 oerjan, he sounds like he's from wherever boily and Roujo are from 12:39:13 oh? 12:39:32 should we start including montreal in the the question 12:39:33 oh right, you're a cog in the lachinery 12:39:44 Let's see you guys guess my ethnicity. 12:39:53 argh 12:40:14 orcish 12:40:27 shikhin: that is highly irregular for this channel. and boily will be so displeased. 12:40:40 Hrm, what? 12:40:46 I'm irregular, or guessing ethnicity? 12:41:06 for god's sake is another esolang cluster forming in israel now 12:41:14 we've metastasised 12:41:49 you are irregular. you are supposed to give your approximate coordinates for science purposes. but boily takes care of that. 12:42:01 also, Taneb is the most irregular here. 12:42:04 oerjan, don't forget body mass 12:42:09 oerjan: I'm somewhere on Earth, if I'm judging my surroundings correctly. 12:42:18 Phantom_Hoover: i was trying not to scare em away at once 12:42:25 shikhin, so that averages out to somewhere around the core right 12:42:26 oerjan, I am!? 12:42:36 Phantom_Hoover: *on*, not *in*. 12:42:42 Taneb: well you're from irregular webcomic 12:42:47 Oh, true 12:42:52 shikhin, yes, that's how averages work 12:42:55 I probably ought to go back there at some point 12:42:56 Phantom_Hoover: Israel is already a giant cluster 12:43:21 Phantom_Hoover: I suppose; it's rather hot in here. 12:43:28 Taneb: did you know dmm's wikipedia page was just deleted 12:43:39 !!! 12:43:42 I did not! 12:43:50 although if you weight the average by population density it's probably a lot closer to asia 12:43:55 and iwc itself was up for discussion last i checked 12:44:03 Phantom_Hoover: Going on the right track, you are. 12:45:46 Phantom_Hoover: hey the cluster may have started in israel, and metastasized with shachaf 12:45:56 oerjan, sure DMM wrote a bunch of RPG books and notable esolangs, doesn't that qualify for notable? 12:46:11 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:11 -!- monotone_ has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:11 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:11 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:11 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:20 -!- monotone has joined. 12:46:20 -!- ineiros has joined. 12:47:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:47:51 Phantom_Hoover: all mentions were in "unreliable" or primary sources something something 12:48:15 Who's DMM? 12:48:28 Taneb, remember when you cried at dmm's monopoly rant 12:48:44 david morgan-mar, author of irregular webcomic and other stuff 12:49:13 Phantom_Hoover, yes I do 12:49:28 also several esolangs, but who cares about that 12:49:52 Phantom_Hoover: i suspect those didn't help any on wikipedia. 12:51:14 fascists! 12:51:38 also dmm himself dropped by just to say he trusted them to make a fair decision. 12:53:27 -!- heroux has joined. 12:53:50 Taneb: oh also yesterday's http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=1588 made me look at http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/?comic=121 again and realize how brilliant that one was 12:54:26 (i assume you're following darths and droids?) 12:55:13 also, this is like a two-way inception. 12:56:39 :D 12:56:50 Right now, I'm only following IWC and D&D 12:58:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:06:17 -!- ninio has joined. 13:06:26 :) 13:06:37 this is creepy 13:06:38 `WeLcOmE ninio 13:06:41 NiNiO: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 13:06:59 hello everyone 13:07:22 -!- boily has joined. 13:08:01 how are u 13:08:14 good morning. 13:08:36 now I'm traveling in europe, it's 14.08pm 13:08:55 What time is there? 13:09:23 ninio: you don't happen to be in hexham, uk at the moment? 13:10:13 (we have to hit one again sooner or later, right?) 13:10:17 possibly 13:10:23 right timezone 13:11:03 Phantom_Hoover: yes i calculated, although if the offset from mine had been the other way i'd of course have asked helsinki. 13:11:35 i may have momentarily been to hexham a few times, actually 13:11:40 ooh 13:11:45 hey, another guy who uses 24h time with pm! 13:12:05 i'm not sure, i wasn't paying attention 13:12:15 I'm not the only one! 13:12:22 boily: btw shikhin is new and is being all mysterious about his whereabouts 13:12:37 *also new 13:12:54 shikhin lives in █████ 13:13:04 he's not in hexham, though, although disturbingly he knows who Taneb is. 13:13:05 Phantom_Hoover, I don't think you have, if this is the trains 13:13:13 oerjan: thanks a lot for providing me with vict^H^H^H^Hpeople to whom I can ask the The Question! 13:13:17 Taneb, pity 13:13:28 Unless you frequently travel Carlisle <-> Newcastle 13:14:18 I was in UK once. 13:14:24 ninio: who are you? d'où viens-tu? ¿qué es un busón? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 13:14:24 Just in London. 13:14:29 nortti: wtf is that an actual [REDACTED] character 13:14:43 no, unicide full block 13:14:49 *unicode 13:14:52 oerjan: you don't have clearance to understand nortti. 13:15:04 boily: ah. 13:15:20 shikhin: bon matin! where are you from? whate are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 13:15:29 wtf 13:15:35 (aaaaaah, the incredible feeling of asking the The Question...) 13:15:48 The Question 13:15:57 ninio: yes. the The Question. 13:16:01 nortti: the google hits all seem to use it for redaction though. also, is unicide what you want to do after being frustrated by unicode too many times? 13:16:19 *google suggestions 13:16:22 no, it's when you kill one person 13:16:25 (lesson of the day: don't try to drink yesterday's maté. bletch.) 13:16:48 boily: that applies also to coffee 13:17:27 coffee 13:17:35 oerjan: I don't drink coffee at work anymore. that thing they make is becoming more and more toxic. 13:17:58 it depends on the quality, quantity 13:18:19 and on the cleanliness of the machine, and drinkability of water. 13:18:35 yup 13:18:38 * boily shudders at the memories... “You weren't there, man! You can't understand!” 13:18:41 oerjan: 16:18 <@sortiecat> Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font. 13:19:11 `learn Unicide is when people can't read your suicide note because they lack the proper font. 13:19:16 I knew that. 13:20:08 not me 13:20:26 boily: btw i don't think ninio was saying he was in london _now_ in case that wasn't clear. 13:20:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:20:53 he's in europe, in the same timezone, though, which afair leaves ireland and portugal. 13:21:11 oerjan: I know. he still haven't answered. 13:21:39 sorry boys I'm too slow. 13:21:40 * boily stares at ninio with the kind of manic grin you only find on used car salesmen 13:22:11 boily: and rabid dogs? 13:22:36 oerjan: I'm not frothing yet, even if that sip of maté still tastes quite bad. 13:22:56 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:23:31 Oh ok, Sorry I did not want to disturb anyone . best wishes. 13:25:21 ninio: you're not disturbing, it's not like much was happening at the moment. 13:26:05 oh his ip's in portugal. 13:27:31 you know i think this hexinky/question stuff has run its course 13:27:38 -!- oerjan has set topic: Please don't be scared off by the The Question | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 13:28:11 -!- ninio has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:28:17 Phantom_Hoover: you know i think you thought that from when it started. 13:28:29 another one disappeared :( 13:28:40 nah, i was on board with both at the start 13:29:15 it's just now all it seems to accomplish is creeping noobs out with no real humour behind it 13:29:56 ok ;_; 13:30:38 our PR has become quite bad. we need to revamp it. 13:31:12 maybe entice forthcoming newcomers with a nice and shiny BF derivative on the wiki's front page? 13:31:54 maybe, ah, actually ask them what their interest in the channel is 13:32:11 This Month's Brainfuck Derivative 13:32:38 Phantom_Hoover: right. 13:37:16 -!- loogie has joined. 13:37:36 -!- loogie has left ("Leaving"). 13:57:31 -!- carado has joined. 14:03:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:04:21 `slist busy busy busy everyone's on LOFAF 14:04:23 slist busy busy busy everyone's on LOFAF: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 14:04:59 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:10:17 -!- conehead has joined. 14:12:00 boily: Hi 14:13:33 shikhello. 14:13:48 boily: I'm from your friendly neighborhood; as for my body weight, it's about 88.8kg. 14:14:41 shikhin: I'll put you in Pittsburgh, then. 14:15:02 Oh, not the *physical* neighborhood. 14:15:09 s/physical/geographical/ 14:15:26 * shikhin is slightly bored; why don't you try guessing? :-) 14:15:41 My name should be a big hint, and I've betrayed my continent above already. 14:15:50 I'm not in Pittsburgh, but in Montréal. Mr. Roger's Neighbourhood was produced in Pittsburgh. 14:16:36 shikhin: the betrayal happened afore my connection to the chännel. let me lurk and slurch and gather intelligence in a most unsubtle manner... 14:17:06 shikhin: but israel has been guessed already! 14:17:13 oerjan: Ooh, no. :-( 14:17:22 i once heard taneb punched a hole in the chancellor ← which one? 14:17:25 Hint (since I'm not too sure why you're all even trying, I'll make it a bit easier): 14:17:32 boily, well... the one 14:17:37 Try Google, you'll find my name is rather unique. 14:17:55 already did 14:17:57 you're named after some ruins or sth idk 14:18:17 Phantom_Hoover: No, those ruins are named after me (or rather, after I was born)... :-) 14:18:51 shikhin is from the future (88 kg/hour!), from the ruins of Pittsburgh, Israel. 14:18:54 ok is this your site http://shikhin.in/ 14:19:08 Aha, got me... should be very easy, now. 14:19:17 Not boily, but oerjan. :-) 14:20:42 Hrm, does 'shikhin' sound Israeli to you folks? 14:21:41 shikhin: it's vaguely hebrew in phonology 14:21:57 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:22:30 and there actually _is_ such a place. 14:22:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikhin -- yeah, stole my name. 14:22:58 and we already have shachaf, a regular channel member. 14:23:07 shikhin, yes 14:23:17 shachaf is close to shikhin? 14:24:07 well they both have sh's and the hairball noise 14:24:13 they're both typical semitic-sounding three-consonant words 14:25:00 and two of the consonants are the same, modulo slight transliteration difference 14:25:28 of course the -kh- is probably not pronounced the same for a hebrew word as an indian one. 14:25:28 @tell shachaf is it /ʃatʃaf/ or /ʃaχaf/ 14:25:28 Consider it noted. 14:25:37 boily: the latter. 14:25:55 @tell shachaf oerjan clarified me. disregard the question. 14:25:55 Consider it noted. 14:26:06 oerjan: thanks. tdh. 14:26:43 oerjan: Probably; I'd have given you the IPA, but I don't do well with IPA. 14:26:47 i expect the indian is actually /ʃikhin/ or so 14:27:05 maybe the h should be superscript, i don't know how to do that in irc. 14:27:09 oerjan: It's like the 'kh' in 'khan'; I guess more people do well with muslim names than Indian ones :-) 14:27:11 I think Armenian is one of the few languages that has contrastive [χ] and [ʁ]. 14:27:11 apparently dh is 'z' in indian 14:27:20 shikhin, or the ch in loch 14:27:27 Phantom_Hoover: Nope. 14:27:38 oh, right 14:27:42 shikhin: [ç]? 14:27:44 uvular, not velar 14:27:50 boily: german might? 14:27:57 oerjan: ich-laut. 14:28:01 boily: I've not much clue how to read that, so, heh :-) 14:28:37 shikhin: it's kinda like an s, but more “k”-ish, with your tongue stuck to your palate. 14:29:20 i know indo-aryan languages have aspirated plosives, so i assumed kh was one. also how i pronounce it in "khan" but i don't know if that is actually right. 14:29:22 boily: Doesn't feel like it; let me think of an English word which matches with the pronunciation of 'kh'. 14:30:12 (of course norwegian/english also have that sound - we just lack the _unaspirated_ version.) 14:30:17 shikhin: english doesn't have it, sadly. such an interesting sound... 14:30:44 norwegian does := 14:30:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad04HEqKIoA -- there, that does 'khan' properly. 14:30:47 *:) 14:31:04 oerjan: for a francophone, trying to make a difference between unaspirated/aspirated is next to impossible. 14:31:06 If anyone of you provided the right alternative, do tell me :-) 14:31:16 shikhin, there isn't one afaik 14:31:33 As for English, yeah, can't think of any word. 14:31:35 shikhin: i think that's what i thought it was. 14:31:50 oerjan: don't pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes. 14:31:50 wait, that's plosive 14:31:54 * shikhin presumes no one is stuck at 'shi' or 'in'. 14:32:31 shikhin: there are sound bits (of varying quality) for all the possible phonemes on wikipedia. 14:32:32 shikhin: the _usual_ english pronunciation of k is aspirated, although not as much as in that youtube link 14:33:58 * shikhin isn't as good with phonetics. 14:34:42 Although, yeah, the 'kh' part looks plosive, if I'm going by the right definition. 14:35:09 but is it uvular! 14:35:11 shikhin: what is your mother language? 14:35:45 I was taught both Hindi and English, as my first languages. 14:36:29 probably a velar plosive. 14:36:47 Phantom_Hoover: i think the kh in shikhin and khan are like english k but a bit more aspirated. 14:37:24 oerjan: Probably, yeah. 14:37:42 * shikhin is trying to figure out the difference between velar and uvular. 14:39:00 uvular is far back in the mouth, at the uvula which is that weird thing hanging down. 14:39:23 trilling the uvular is a fun activity. 14:39:26 I don't think that's it. 14:39:46 So, probably velar, yeah. 14:40:03 Wow, that's a consonant I did not realise I could pronounce 14:40:28 boily: to repeat, i think german might contrast [χ] and [ʁ] ? 14:40:36 Hrm, amazing how everyone at #esoteric are phonetics experts? 14:40:37 :D 14:41:06 shikhin: some of them drive us others crazy by talking in japanese or french 14:41:18 Heh. 14:41:19 oerjan: oh. I didn't parse «german, might?» correctly the first time. 14:41:28 boily: i suspected so :) 14:42:27 oerjan: je vois pas de quoi tu veux parler :D 僕は意味ないよ^^ 14:42:39 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 14:42:59 (at least i understood that french. i think.) 14:43:43 "I'm not mean I" ? 14:44:12 google translate sucks at Japanese... :/... 14:44:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:44:49 boily: jeg kan også være ubegripelig hvis jeg vil! 14:47:43 oerjan: manqué. j'ai compris ta tentavie d'incompréhension :p 14:48:07 (I need to remember "ubegripelig") 14:48:19 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:48:51 boily: hm it seems german pronounces -r at the end of words as a vowel, so maybe not. 14:50:16 gt doesn't know "tentavie" 14:52:55 so if german only uses [χ] at the end of syllables and [ʁ] at the beginning of syllables, finding a contrast might be hard. 14:53:53 Maybe to a German mind an [χ] is just a [ʁ] at the the end of a syllable, and vice versa 14:53:55 oerjan: tentative. 14:54:02 (I do not possess a German mind) 14:54:39 Taneb: i find that etymologically implausible. 14:55:37 as they come from /g/ and /r/ in germanic respectively afaiu 14:55:51 Oh, fair enough 14:56:33 Taneb: and also, /r/ at the end of a syllable becomes [ɐ̯] 14:57:02 :c 14:58:14 Führer has a [ʁ] in it, so maybe it can work _between_ vowels. 14:58:20 -!- yorick has joined. 14:58:36 except not that one, since [χ] needs a back vowel in front. 15:00:02 hm "fahren" can apparently be pronounced both ways. 15:02:25 the audio clips sound like [χ] 15:04:16 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:04:57 -!- carado_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:05:09 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:05:28 shikhin: psst "Homo Sapiens" is not a plural 15:06:10 D'oh, thanks. :-) 15:06:37 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:07:01 If you want to be pedantic, the plural is "homines sapientes" 15:07:27 homineses sapientises. 15:09:53 argumentum ad hominem sapientem 15:10:52 * oerjan fell into a latin grammar as a child 15:20:47 IN ALTERNATIVUM UNIVERSAM, oerjan speaks latin. 15:21:40 *-O -O 15:31:53 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:35:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:38:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:45:28 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:45:45 vim is scary. 15:46:24 why? 15:47:07 a coworker helped me with some macro stuff. there are thiiiiiiings going on underneath vim's hood. 15:48:38 (and my "w is polluted with all the editing I did lately on the Wisdom.) 15:48:42 `pastewisdom 15:48:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 15:49:05 I wonder if this still works 15:49:10 `pastefortunes 15:49:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28803 15:49:56 it seems, yes 15:50:49 ~fortune 15:50:50 "I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at 15:50:50 the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace 15:50:50 to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal 15:50:50 judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction." 15:50:50 [Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5] 15:50:56 hm. 15:50:59 you didn't see that. 15:51:23 is metasepia boily's? 15:52:06 nortti: it's usually mine. 15:52:15 and now? 15:52:25 ~fortune 15:52:26 Alimony is like buying oats for a dead horse. 15:52:26 -- Arthur Baer 15:52:49 nortti: I... think I'm going to disown it if it persists to spew out stupid quotes. 15:53:00 :D 15:53:27 hmm, what cmdchars are currently in use, here? 15:53:52 *cmdprefixes 15:58:52 boily, why do you have the offensive database turned on... 16:17:06 ^prefixes 16:17:07 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot ! 16:17:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:21:50 ... 16:21:54 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 16:22:05 so horse_ebooks is just part of the pronunciationbook ARG 16:22:19 I think I need to get off the internet. 16:22:29 how do I register # to oonbotti(|2|3) ? 16:24:23 elliott: i know what you're feeling :( 16:24:30 nothing is honest and true 16:24:38 Bike: I don't... I don't think I even have feelings any more. 16:25:05 :( 16:26:06 it's ok. we can get through this. unless it turns out i'm actually an advertisement for Ford™ Trucks (Truck Strong08:49 < HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28803. then you're on your own. 16:26:10 08:49 < nortti> it seems, yes 16:26:13 08:50 < boily> ~fortune 16:26:15 08:50 < metasepia> "I had so often sung 'Deutschland u:ber Alles' and shouted 'Heil' at 16:26:18 oops. 16:26:19 you know what, that's about as intelligent as what i was saying. 16:26:58 -!- underfl0w has joined. 16:30:59 ^echo foo 16:30:59 foo foo 16:31:13 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:13 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:13 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:14 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:14 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:14 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:14 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:14 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:15 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:15 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:15 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:15 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:16 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:16 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:16 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:16 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:17 ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:17 #echo ^echo #echo ^echo 16:31:17 -!- oonbotti2 has left. 16:31:26 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 16:32:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:40:11 http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/09/-horse-ebooks-is-the-most-successful-piece-of-cyber-fiction-ever/279946/ 16:40:17 -!- underfl1w has joined. 16:41:24 oh, all the tweets were still actually markov chained? 16:41:31 that's okay then. 16:41:41 it doesn't say either way 16:42:22 also it seems like it was actually a spambot to start with and then bought a few years ago? probably coinciding with when all the tweets started showing up as being posted from the web, cue apparently-correct conspiracy theories 16:43:19 -!- underfl0w has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:44:17 i'm not that deep into horse_ebooks historiography 16:46:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:47:59 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:51:48 -!- lambdabot has joined. 16:57:31 -!- underfl1w has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:06:50 http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments "comments sections tend to be a grotesque reflection of the media culture surrounding them" so just shut 'em off totally 17:08:21 -!- jconn has joined. 17:08:59 -!- tmatth has joined. 17:09:56 Phantom_Hoover: can't remember why. 17:11:11 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:12:12 -!- jconn has joined. 17:17:14 -!- Guest2360 has joined. 17:18:14 Hello folks from the mountains of Natal, South Africa. 17:18:52 today is a wonderful internationesotical day! 17:18:55 `relcome Guest2360 17:18:59 ​Guest2360: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:19:45 Thank you for the greeting. 17:19:56 -!- Guest2360 has left. 17:20:05 perfect. 17:20:13 well. 17:23:03 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:23:12 -!- carado has joined. 17:23:40 I think I'm getting that framed, it was so perfect an example of the proper sequence of welcoming events. 17:25:13 would have been better with rainwords :( 17:27:22 kmc: a corowking haskeller is slowly transiting to the Rust side of the Force. 17:27:27 lol 17:27:32 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 17:27:43 -!- carado has joined. 17:28:30 s/row/wor/ 17:29:33 [[ Haskell is "the" standard lazy functional programming language. ]] --Debian 'ghc' package description. 17:29:40 hehe 17:29:43 uhm. 17:30:09 boily: what does your friend want to use Rust for? 17:30:14 it's not really an alternative to Haskell, of course... 17:30:41 `list 17:30:43 a use??? it's only for learning and exploring. 17:30:49 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot shikhin SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 17:30:51 ah 17:31:03 he's a lisper at heart, but dabbles in everything he can get to compile on his machine. 17:31:03 Oh, d'oh, that's what it does. 17:31:11 supreme butt 17:31:19 sui! 17:36:34 -!- tiger717 has joined. 17:37:12 `relcome tiger717 17:37:15 ​tiger717: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:37:27 I need autocompletion on bot commands. 17:37:52 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 17:38:13 boily: Thanks! 17:38:48 it seems that # people are slowly flowing over here 17:40:34 nortti: strangely, no Colombians today. 17:41:11 I don't think there's anyone from colombia on # 17:41:49 hm. is a valid channel name... 17:42:27 :D 17:43:18 what 17:43:45 kmc: :D. 17:45:28 -!- Guest2360 has joined. 17:45:56 -!- Guest2360 has left. 17:48:09 RFCistically speaking, most things are valid channel names, since the only prohibited octets are NUL, BEL, LF, CR, space, comma and colon. 17:48:21 Sadly, freenode seems to take a dim view on control characters in channel names. 17:48:48 IRCnet is perfectly happy with e.g. #esoteric 17:50:02 «#⎈ :Illegal channel name». bummer. 17:50:54 boily: http://sprunge.us/NRHS <- IRCnet. 17:51:59 can you /join #̈ 17:52:02 yes 17:52:18 espernet has a # 17:52:26 * #̈ :Illegal channel name 17:52:26 oh, so does freenode 17:52:50 kmc, oh, damn invisible unicodes 17:53:40 freenode seems very narrow-minded about this. 17:53:50 bigots 17:56:57 http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/09/computer-simulations-suggest-war-drove-the-rise-of-civilizations/ i feel like this deserves to be laughed at 18:01:58 Because it's obviously true, or because it manages to be unconvincing of something which is obviously true? 18:07:01 ~duck ars technica 18:07:02 Ars Technica (Latin-derived for the "art of technology") is a technology news and information website created by Ken Fisher and Jon Stokes in 1998. 18:07:04 well because it seems like a really shoddy basis on which to do anthropology 18:07:14 boily, please stop doing that 18:07:24 ~duck no 18:07:25 Formed by the flood waters of the White Nile, it varies in size seasonally. 18:16:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:18:30 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:21:46 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 18:27:39 -!- Vorpal has joined. 18:33:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:39:05 arse technica 18:40:19 -!- azaq23 has joined. 18:42:34 -!- conehead has joined. 18:58:18 ~duck Let's just hold all our conversations in DuckDuckGo search queries from now on. 18:58:19 --- No relevant information 18:58:42 Gregor: that's silly. even I won't do that. 18:58:47 ~duck silly 18:58:47 SillyHair Kara is an adjective meaning having foolish hair!!! or in a foolish manner. 19:01:55 let's not and say we did 19:02:49 -!- tmatth has left ("Leaving"). 19:06:22 SillyHair Kara sounds like someone related to Real Fast Nora. 19:07:04 Or possibly an archenemy or something. 19:10:49 Database returned error "145: Table './esolang_wiki/searchindex' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)". 19:10:51 Awesome 19:11:11 Fiora: Perhaps SillyHair Kara is the perpetrator of the Shear-related Disaster! 19:11:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:11:50 Erm 19:11:53 fizzie: Above. 19:11:55 Fiora: HELLO FRIEND 19:13:58 fizziello. Fihellora. Grellor. 19:15:39 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:18:05 Hi 19:18:34 sillyhair...? kara? 19:18:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:18:50 why are right cosets sometimes called left cosets, and how does that make sense at all 19:19:07 Fiora, I'd like to return from my exile from your channel 19:19:15 May I? 19:19:17 exile...? 19:19:21 channel? 19:19:27 oh. um. currently it's kind of just a private channel for a couple people 19:19:31 for reasons 19:19:50 does this also mean that left cosets are sometimes called right cosets? 19:19:55 Meh, I'll regoin 19:20:13 Aaah I can't regoin it's invite only 19:20:16 I can't even rejoin 19:20:17 I would assume so unless the people who call right cosets left cosets have another name for left cosets 19:21:13 Fiora: Apparently we look so much alike that people confuse which one they were talking to. (I deduce you're some kind of bearded dude.) 19:22:26 on wikipedia, xH is called a left coset 19:22:29 not a right coset 19:22:55 fizzie: too many people starting with fi- in the same place 19:23:12 I don't see why though, I thought you got xH by using right multiplication as a group action 19:23:32 -!- boily has changed nick to fi-. 19:23:35 fizzie: I don't think I'm either of those :P 19:23:45 -!- AnotherTest has changed nick to FinotherTest. 19:24:17 D-8 19:24:38 Fiora, soln. change nick to zFiora 19:24:39 fi- FinotherTest Fiora FireFly fizzie WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY (also sorry for pinging you FireFly) 19:24:57 -!- Taneb has changed nick to fitaneb. 19:25:02 >_< 19:25:17 * Gregor is now known as Firegor 19:25:19 I can never see a bandwagon without jumping on it 19:25:29 I need oerjan 19:25:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Fintom_Hoover. 19:25:38 Are bandwagons common in Hexham? 19:25:46 aaaaaaaaaa 19:25:50 help everyone is fiii 19:25:56 FireFly: The internal combustion engine has not yet reached Hexham. 19:26:02 Everyone's looking fine. 19:26:05 fi! 'tis a dire predicament indeed 19:26:15 Gregor, we have a shop that sells "Horseless Carriages" 19:26:23 -!- Fiora has changed nick to feefifofum. 19:26:29 -!- feefifofum has changed nick to Fiora. 19:26:45 It's called Hexham Horseless Carriages 19:26:46 It's the final countdown! doo doo doo dooooo ♪ do-do-do do doooo ♪ 19:26:51 φ. 19:26:52 Or rather, had, until the owner was killed for heresy. 19:27:04 fi 19:27:09 .fi* >.< 19:27:41 fungot: you should rename yourself to fingot. 19:27:42 fi-: need a clone? the magician, nolstein bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 19:27:51 -!- fitaneb has changed nick to Taneb. 19:27:55 oh my god 19:27:56 Considering the country of origin distribution of people in the channel.. it seems fitting 19:27:56 -!- fi- has changed nick to boily. 19:28:02 who is this nolstein bekkler 19:28:12 He's a magician. 19:28:13 Fintom_Hoover: can I subtly ~duck him? 19:28:17 He knows how to make clones. 19:28:17 so we're /fi/nally done with the /fi/ thing? 19:28:21 boily, no 19:28:23 -!- FinotherTest has changed nick to AnotherTest. 19:28:27 OKAY. 19:29:02 boily: do it nonsubtly 19:29:25 ~duck nolstein bekkler 19:29:25 --- No relevant information 19:29:30 It is very ungood that if you change the nick of a fungot, it'll still only respond if the old name is spoken, it's not terribly self-aware. 19:29:30 fizzie: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... 19:29:34 Norstein Bekkler's Tent of Horrors is in the Present 19:29:58 fungot: Again you go with the death threats. 19:29:58 fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 19:30:00 fizzie: the 'got is right. shed off your mortal coil! 19:30:23 when we have suffl'd of this mortal coil, must give us pause 19:30:45 is it on shakespeare mode or something / does it know shakespeare 19:30:52 No / yes. 19:30:55 ^style ss 19:30:56 Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) 19:31:19 (I don't think Shakespeare wrote so much about the gate key.) 19:31:27 fungor: What is the question? 19:31:33 *fungot :( 19:31:33 AnotherTest: hildersham. was that the king that spurd his horse so hard, against the forme of a souldier i will vndertake it 19:31:38 fungot: shed shed shed, shed your booty! 19:31:39 boily: pros. marke his condition, and th' euent, then tell me, hero: wooing, wedding, and repenting is as a louers pinch, which hurts and is desir'd. dost thou speake? your eyes do menace me: why looke you pale, mistris? do you heare monster: if i loose them, thus find i by their losse, for valentine, my selfe haue anne page 19:31:49 Oh it even has v instead of u 19:32:18 very nice, very fancy 19:32:19 It's all sourced from randomish Project Gutenberg texts. 19:32:27 fvngot 19:32:42 ualentine, which incidentally was how a former Chinese coworker pronounced it. 19:33:03 (took me several days to catch on on what he was talking about.) 19:33:46 uelly uelly intlesting 19:34:28 anyway, does anyone know why some people call right cosets left cosets? 19:36:01 "Everything you view and contribute on Facebook is private and will not appear on Facebook" <-- some site that wants me to log in with facebook 19:40:36 aha http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/392841/what-is-the-reason-for-the-name-left-coset 19:41:26 sinister cosets 19:42:17 it's all weird 19:42:40 the book I'm reading uses right for what's usually called left it appears 19:54:17 AnotherTest: turn the book around. 19:59:46 -!- augur has joined. 20:16:26 They could just call them cosets 20:16:55 If there is a difference between left and right cosets, keep the terminology the same everywhere 20:18:42 all this is making me feel miserable. 20:19:10 -!- tiger717 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:44:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:47:55 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:56:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:56:38 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:57:05 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:58:02 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:01:48 @tell nortti Registering new bot prefixes needs to be done separately on fungot, HackEgo and EgoBot (and presumably any new bot that allows anyone to make a prefixes command.) Incidentally the fungot process is a pain at the moment because of jconn's unmatched ), can i interest you in using a ( prefix? 21:01:48 Consider it noted. 21:01:49 oerjan: actus secundus. scoena prima. coriolanus. well, masters, good night indeed. who's that i pray'thee? bawd. marry sir, so painted, to make misfortune liue? groo. i was 21:02:34 oerjan: won't a ( prefix break havoc all-around the chännel? 21:02:48 (inasmuch the channel can be more broken thant what it is at the moment...) 21:20:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:23:52 boily: well (-space is also acceptable, jconn does )-space after all. 21:24:19 oerjan: Using brainfuck instead of just writing [CLOSE PARENTHESIS YO] shows commendable dedication. 21:24:58 boily: also not all robots give an error message on unknown commands. fungot doesn't. 21:24:59 oerjan: viola. the honourable lady of the house i did enquire for? cel. it pleases your worship to morrow morning let vs meete him then, whom you accuse, let me redeeme my brothers both from death 21:25:04 -!- myndzi has joined. 21:25:29 fizzie: IT DOES DOESN'T IT? 21:25:35 "Groo." --fungot 21:25:35 fizzie: car. what, sir, i haue a letter from the cardinal? norfolk. my lord 21:26:32 ^groo 21:26:45 the hardest part isn't generating the brainfuck, but breaking it up and serving it to fungot ^str btw. 21:26:45 oerjan: cam. good my lord 21:27:22 aaaaaaaaurgh. I have this empty void in my heart that can only be filled by a mechanical keyboard, but they're expensive! 21:27:27 Groo. Cam. 21:27:55 boily: mechanical keyboards are _not_ recommended as pacemakers. 21:29:58 oerjan: don't care. my fingers are more important than my internal organs, stomach notwithstanding. 21:30:16 (I still need something to process down phở, mind you) 21:30:45 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:31:11 ic 21:31:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:32:11 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 21:33:09 the _ conspiracy is growing 21:34:34 oh my name is still stupid 21:34:37 -!- Fintom_Hoover has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 21:35:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:36:08 Phantom_Hoover: i dunno, michael is pretty ordinary. 21:36:46 * oerjan cannot recall if he's ever learned Phantom_Hoover's first name. 21:36:56 it is a mystery for the ages 21:37:37 * Taneb thinks I can remember like half of it 21:38:15 is it "Phantom"? 21:38:21 Taneb: like all the vokals? 21:38:29 aaaaaaah crap 21:38:33 freaking _ 21:38:40 Fiora, no (yes (no)) 21:40:31 J. Edgar Hoover gave his kids really weird names. 21:40:35 Koen_: you are of the _iform. 21:40:56 elliott: jedgar was Frank Zappa in disguise. 21:41:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:43:48 Phantom_Hoover: or wait is it actually micheál 21:44:13 what do you think i am, french 21:44:16 or mícheál 21:44:26 Phantom_Hoover: of northern irish descent? 21:44:38 Michaël? 21:44:46 putting accents all over the place doesn't make it irish! 21:45:15 that's the French version. 21:45:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:44 Phantom_Hoover: well google gave me these variations 21:46:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *sneeze*). 21:46:38 Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh 21:47:02 Mícheál Ó Domhnaill 21:47:29 where are you even getting this shit from 21:47:44 google 21:49:30 + what i vaguely recall of your real name. 21:49:56 or being claimed to be it, anyway. 21:50:37 If you keep telling people Phantom_Hoover's real name is Adahn, an Adahn will appear at a bar in the Hive. 21:51:20 anyway google somehow thinks accents and switched vowels is just the thing for irish michaels. 21:51:29 fizzie: is that a reference 21:51:38 oerjan: To Planescape: Torment, yes. 21:51:57 ok 21:52:23 oerjan: (If you, as the player character, keep answering the (imaginary) "Adahn" whenever someone asks for your name, Adahn the Imagined, a very confused person, will indeed appear.) 21:54:21 Maybe I should add PS:T as one of fungot's game options. It's as long as a book, so it might not be as repetitive as some other styles. 21:54:22 fizzie: petruchio. did ever dian so become a groue as kate this chamber with her princely gait? o! if you be so good touchstone: look you how pale he glares, his forme and cause conioyn'd, preaching to stones, would make them capeable. do not presume to tempt them with ill words, nor worth, action, nor vtterance, nor the deuision of the twentieth part of one. 21:55:05 (Well, a long book, apparently, at 800k words.) 22:03:12 -!- Bike has joined. 22:07:42 sireously bil gatess is a master class programmer bro nobody can make windows like show smooth and sweat 22:08:00 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 22:08:31 he is best programme rin the world dude 22:12:38 Bike doesn't need voice, he needs an exorcism. 22:13:01 or possibly to guard his computer better. 22:13:15 bil gates is master class programmer but he dont speak about it 22:20:00 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:20:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:31:17 -!- azaq231 has joined. 22:32:33 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:42:34 -!- myndzi has joined. 22:43:37 @tell AnotherTest presumably they can't agree whether "left" refers to the side of the single element or the subgroup? i don't even remember which convention we used. 22:43:37 Consider it noted. 22:43:38 luslus dec sigfas cen dec bartis a tis pat sigbar soq dec soq ketcab pat wutgal tis pel zero a per tislus b tis pat barhep wutcol tis pel a lus pel b per per b buc pel b lus pel b per per 22:43:54 FreeFull: OKAY 22:47:39 How would I rename every file named foo_[stuff] in a directory to just [stuff]? I'm bad at shell. 22:47:58 Bike: use the rename program 22:48:05 Bike: rename 's/^foo_//' * 22:48:19 elliott: Weird, my rename doesn't do regex 22:48:20 oh, hey. 22:48:24 uh, hmm. 22:48:27 I think that's the Perl rename. 22:48:31 Except I just put this in git. 22:48:32 rename 'foo_' '' * for the other one maybe. 22:48:40 Yeah, that should work 22:49:01 Maybe I should have renamed before gitting. 22:49:26 Bike: for file in foo_*; do git mv $file $(echo $file | sed 's/^foo_//'); done ? 22:49:35 (I know, useless use of sed. but I forget bash's replacement syntax all the time >_>) 22:49:48 also don't do this if your filenames have spaces in them, etc. etc. etc. also git doesn't actually track renames. 22:49:50 too late!! 22:50:10 for... what 22:50:34 for i already did the rename 22:50:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:52:36 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:56 Bike: Well, get rid of the commit pernamently 22:53:00 And add the files 22:53:07 I said too late! 22:53:39 You can edit history 22:53:57 Bike: you can do the git mvs anyway, if the resulting filenames have a pattern you can glob over 22:54:19 well, I guess you have to git rm/git add if they already got renamed. 22:54:40 you could also just git reset --hard and then do the git mvs, of course! 22:58:27 * Bike sighs, downloads all files again 23:05:51 -!- azaq231 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:14:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:19:24 for f in foo_*; do mv $f ${f/foo_/}; done # the manual way 23:19:33 (Not too late at all.) 23:20:07 i literally started from scratch four times in the interim, no worries. 23:21:52 Bike: You can always make a local copy 23:22:13 that's what i was doing. since davfs won't let me touch files and such for some reason. 23:38:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:47:20 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:20 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:21 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:21 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:22 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:22 -!- shikhin_ has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:22 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:23 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:23 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:23 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:24 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:24 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:24 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:24 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 23:47:36 -!- coppro has joined. 23:47:37 -!- quintopia has joined. 23:47:37 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 23:47:37 -!- quintopia has joined. 23:48:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:54:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:54:03 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 23:54:03 -!- mtve has joined. 23:54:03 -!- yiyus has joined. 23:54:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:54:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:54:03 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 23:54:03 -!- conehead has joined. 23:54:03 -!- Gregor has joined. 23:54:03 -!- heroux has joined. 23:54:03 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:54:03 -!- jix has joined. 23:54:03 -!- myname has joined. 23:54:03 -!- ggherdov has joined. 23:54:03 -!- ion has joined. 23:54:03 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 23:55:11 -!- SirCmpwn has changed nick to Guest301. 23:55:27 -!- Guest301 has quit (Changing host). 23:55:28 -!- Guest301 has joined. 23:55:38 -!- Guest301 has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 23:55:48 -!- augur has joined. 2013-09-25: 00:38:15 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:07:41 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:46 -!- Koen__ has joined. 01:07:52 -!- Koen__ has quit (Client Quit). 01:08:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:51:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:52:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:19 help 01:55:22 !ping 01:55:27 Pong! 02:08:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:10:18 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:11:26 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:19:14 -!- augur has joined. 03:00:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:02:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:32:04 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 03:35:25 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:01:25 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:17:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:32:44 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 05:44:47 ~metar EFHK 05:44:58 Aw, no METARsepia present. 05:45:24 3 °C, brr. 05:59:47 `slist 05:59:50 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:00:32 `slist 06:00:34 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:00:47 Fiora: Isn't `list what you're looking for? 06:00:49 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 06:00:52 ? 06:01:05 slist is the homestuck list. 06:01:07 nortti told me that `slist changed into `list. 06:01:09 Ah. 06:01:26 I don't know what list is, sorry ^^; 06:01:34 `list 06:01:38 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot shikhin SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 06:01:41 :-) 06:01:44 that doesn't look like the same thing 06:01:46 :-) 06:02:31 `cat bin/list 06:02:32 ​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 06:03:14 `cat bin/slist 06:03:16 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ Fiora \ nortti \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot 06:06:27 `pwd 06:06:29 ​/hackenv 06:06:40 `whoami 06:06:42 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 06:06:54 `hostname 06:06:56 umlbox 06:07:02 `help 06:07:02 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 06:07:14 wait, where's the crack about hacking again 06:07:15 well whatever. 06:07:26 `relcome shikhin 06:07:30 ​shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:07:36 Bike: I got the welcome, yesterday :-) 06:08:06 a little collateral damage never hurt nobody important 06:09:41 `run welcome shikhin | rainwords 06:09:44 ​shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:09:59 ... 06:10:17 much better innit 06:10:25 `run welcome kmc Bike 06:10:27 kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:10:38 Ah. 06:10:44 `run run 06:10:45 bash: run: command not found 06:10:55 `run uname -a 06:10:56 Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux 06:11:10 Who hosts HackEgo? 06:11:13 `run ifconfig 06:11:15 bash: ifconfig: command not found 06:11:23 shikhin: it's gregor's pregorative 06:11:31 i can't spell that word 06:11:42 prerogative? 06:11:46 gregorative 06:11:47 probably 06:12:31 `run dmesg | tail 06:12:33 loop: module loaded \ TCP: cubic registered \ NET: Registered protocol family 10 \ sit: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver \ Initialized stdio console driver \ Console initialized on /dev/tty0 \ console [tty0] enabled \ Initializing software serial port version 1 \ console [mc-1] enabled \ ubda: unknown partition table 06:12:45 `run dmesg | paste 06:12:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26859 06:13:06 `run ls -l | paste 06:13:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5680 06:13:28 nice n short 06:13:41 `run cat quotes | paste 06:13:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16508 06:13:48 I ran http://codemonkey.org.uk/projects/trinity/ against UMLBox and pretty quickly found something that would hang the "VM", but nothing more interesting 06:14:08 i think you can just do uh 06:14:09 `url paste 06:14:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste 06:14:12 something like that? 06:14:15 UML is pretty dodgy and weird and obscure though, so there probably is some VM breakout exploit if you want to find it 06:15:33 "User-Mode Linux is a safe, secure way of running [stuff]." 06:15:34 shikhin: check out the wisdom pdf for all our stupid bullshit in pleasantly ignorable form 06:15:52 Bike: Yeah, it's on my read-me :-) 06:16:50 you have a readme? 06:17:15 looks like this page has all the wrong information... I don't want to *use* UML, I want to know how it works 06:17:30 Bike: Not readme, read-me. :P 06:17:45 "These are the articles that want to be read by me." 06:17:48 sounds too complicated for me 06:18:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:32:20 apparently it works by running processes with ptrace to catch their system calls, and seems to actually run the "kernel" code inside those processes while temporarily disabling system call tracing 06:32:38 (according to http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2001/uml.pdf) 06:36:10 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 06:36:29 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 06:36:29 -!- audioPhil has joined. 06:37:46 olsner: They have (had?) different modes; that's the TT ("Tracing Thread") one. 06:38:04 olsner: There's also the SKAS ("Separate Kernel Address Space") mode, which I think had two different versions. 06:38:58 The latter needs (needed?) some specific patches in the host kernel. 06:39:02 http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/old/skas.html -- might be kinda outdated. 06:39:40 "These patches are against 2.4.19 --" yes, very modern. 06:40:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:41:10 Wikipedia claims that "A method of running a separate kernel address space (SKAS) that does not require host kernel patching has been implemented". 06:41:15 [citation needed] 06:51:25 `run grep skas /proc/cpuinfo 06:51:27 mode: skas 06:54:18 I suppose even skas mode involves ptrace, but it only has a single UML userspace process and not one host process per guest process. 06:54:43 shikhin: no, `slist used to be named `list 06:59:29 @ask oerjan why '(' and why would using it make fungot process a less of a pain? 06:59:29 Consider it noted. 06:59:30 nortti: anne. no, no, nor never make fair weather yet a while, and like me banished, then mightest thou teare thy hayre, and fall a cursing like a very drab. a scullion? fye vpon't: foh. about my stature: for at pentecost, when all that is mine 06:59:32 https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/1/203 has some details on this "skas0" mode (skas without host kernel patches) 07:00:35 that's more like what I expected in the first place instead of the "Tracing Thread" mode 07:03:15 though it does still involve some code running inside each UML process, and ptrace 07:04:06 static int show_cpuinfo(struct seq_file *m, void *v) { [...] seq_printf(m, "mode\t\t: skas\n"); 07:04:11 It also seems to be the only mode these days. 07:54:15 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:57:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:41:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:28:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:32:12 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 09:35:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:55:11 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 10:12:47 -!- mnoqy has joined. 10:17:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:40:44 -!- carado has joined. 10:56:25 https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf 11:12:10 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:18:44 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:23:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:25:27 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:28:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:55:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:00:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:37:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:40:19 -!- yorick has joined. 12:44:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:47:37 @tell nortti because then i can define the command in simple underload fitting in one irc line instead of generated brainfuck that needs to be fed in through several lines. (underload has very simple printing but cannot handle unmatched parentheses.) 12:47:37 Consider it noted. 12:48:32 ah, hmm 12:49:22 actually, for oonbotti3, I was already going to do that 12:49:53 wait are these 3 different bots, there's only so many bots we can fit you know. 12:50:24 no, oonbotti3 will replace ob2, like ob2 replaced ob 12:50:29 good, good 12:51:42 also someone pointed out plain ( might not be a good idea, (+space might work better. 12:51:51 (because of people speaking like this.) 12:52:39 although that only matters if oonbotti? reacts to unknown commands. 12:54:22 @tell shikhin nortti told me that `slist changed into `list. <-- no it's the other way around, `slist used to be called just `list before the lists multiplied. 12:54:22 Consider it noted. 12:54:58 oerjan: Ah. 12:55:10 oh you were here. 12:55:45 i think i somehow got confused about your spelling when checking. 12:57:06 -!- boily has joined. 12:57:14 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:01:33 wait, where's the crack about hacking again 13:01:40 `? HackEgo 13:01:44 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 13:02:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:02:56 `run rm -rf / 13:02:58 rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe 13:03:11 Did I succeed? :P 13:03:20 good imagination 13:03:23 nope. 13:03:27 oerjan: Why? 13:04:24 `run rm -rf / --no-preserve-root 13:04:30 Heh. 13:04:33 Bam. 13:04:36 `help 13:04:36 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 13:04:38 :( 13:05:09 optimist 13:05:36 oerjan: I already told him that 13:05:43 `pwd 13:05:45 ok. 13:05:58 rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/meta_bg_resize': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/batched_discard': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/lazy_itable_init': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/cgroup': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0': Permission 13:05:58 `run pwd 13:06:05 Oh, rm is still going on. 13:06:12 Wait, wasn't it running with root? 13:06:15 ​/hackenv 13:06:17 ​/hackenv 13:06:33 shikhin: that part of the message was meant ironically. 13:06:49 D'oh. 13:07:11 you're still welcome to try to break out of the sandbox, i think. 13:07:29 i don't think anyone has got very far. 13:08:04 `run shutdown -h NOW 13:08:05 :D 13:08:05 bash: shutdown: command not found 13:08:08 Aww. 13:08:12 `run restart 13:08:14 bash: restart: command not found 13:08:21 Ok, that's as far as I can try. 13:08:24 * shikhin gives up. 13:08:25 very very few people manage to break things enough that we cannot just fix it with the `revert command. 13:08:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:08:39 Perhaps very few are motivated enough? 13:08:40 `? Ngevd 13:08:42 ​#t `? Ngevd 13:08:49 ​-Yئ%\L{t \ ħChGo 13:08:49 Set up a $1000 price, I'm sure more will succeed. 13:08:59 shikhin: indeed. 13:09:02 `run readlink -f wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:04 ​/hackenv/wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:16 hm? 13:09:24 `run cat wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:25 cat: wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory 13:09:30 `run cat wisdom/ngevd 13:09:32 ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 13:09:38 oh 13:09:55 `? is a shorthand for? 13:09:57 is a shorthand for?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:10:02 I ssee. 13:10:13 nortti, it used to work like that but it broke pastewisdom 13:10:19 hehe 13:10:24 it used to be a symlink to /dev/urandom, but then people were dumb with it and it had to be special-cased 13:10:25 nortti: it _used_ to be an actual device file but that made it awkward to do things. 13:10:27 same as: 13:10:29 `ls wisdom 13:10:31 ​` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛ 13:10:44 wtf 13:10:52 `paste bin/wisdom 13:10:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/wisdom 13:10:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:10:57 `paste bin/ls 13:10:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/ls 13:11:00 (im idiot) 13:11:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 13:11:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:11:33 `cat bin/ls 13:11:34 ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^752129 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 13:11:51 Phantom_Hoover: presumably the inode changed again. 13:11:57 `/bin/ls wisdom 13:11:59 ​` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛ 13:12:44 `run /bin/ls -id wisdom 13:12:46 969195 wisdom 13:12:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/b018e83c2886/wisdom 13:13:14 `run sed -i 's/752129/969195/g' bin/ls 13:13:18 No output. 13:13:22 `ls wisdom 13:13:24 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 13:13:46 `paste /bin/l 13:13:46 `pastewisdom 13:13:47 `paste /bin/ls 13:13:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/l 13:13:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:13:49 it's not as necessary as it used to be, obviously. 13:13:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/ls 13:13:59 ah 13:15:01 why is there a .swp file in hackenv? 13:15:04 Phantom_Hoover: i doubt /bin/ls is a readable script. hm i guess the `paste file optimization doesn't deal well with files outside the repository. 13:15:22 nortti: someone ran vim maybe? 13:15:36 istr something like that. 13:15:46 vim leaves _behind_ swap files? 13:16:01 nortti: when it errors out due to having no terminal, maybe? 13:16:46 `rm *.swp 13:16:48 rm: cannot remove `*.swp': No such file or directory 13:16:51 nortti: that's sort of the point of having them in the first place, so you can restore after errors. 13:16:56 :D 13:16:57 `rm .swp 13:17:02 No output. 13:17:21 `vim 13:17:33 Hmm. 13:17:46 it gets killed after a while 13:17:50 shikhin: files starting with . are excluded from expansions 13:17:52 Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~ 13:18:03 also 13:18:07 Took really long to figure that out, didn't it? 13:18:07 `echo * 13:18:09 nortti: oh right it may just have been killed right. 13:18:09 ​* 13:18:15 `ls 13:18:17 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:18:18 *? 13:18:28 `ls -a 13:18:29 ​. \ .. \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ .hg \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:18:38 Nope. 13:18:44 hm seems no swap this time. 13:18:51 `file no 13:18:52 no: ERROR: cannot open `no' (No such file or directory) 13:19:03 `touch no 13:19:03 `run file ' no' 13:19:07 ​ no: empty 13:19:09 No output. 13:19:24 `run rm no ' no' 13:19:28 No output. 13:19:29 :D 13:19:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:21:44 oh wait 13:21:47 `ls .swp 13:21:49 ls: cannot access .swp: No such file or directory 13:21:51 nope. 13:22:50 `ls -aF 13:22:52 ​./ \ ../ \ bi \ bin/ \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints@ \ delvs* \ delvs-master/ \ dog \ etc/ \ factor/ \ .hg/ \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin/ \ index.html \ interps/ \ lib/ \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ oerjan/ \ paste/ \ pref \ prefs \ quines/ \ quotes \ share/ \ src/ \ wisdom/ \ wisdom.pdf 13:22:57 nortti: i vaguely suspect there's a race condition between vim detecting no terminal and HackEgo timing out the process, so it only happens when HackEgo is strained? maybe. 13:23:08 `ls -aF oerjan/ 13:23:13 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 13:23:20 what's -F ? 13:23:33 shows / for dirs, * for executables 13:23:43 `ls oerjan 13:23:45 cat 13:23:58 `run diff oerjan/cat cat 13:23:58 `cat oerjan/cat 13:23:59 Meow~~ 13:23:59 No output. 13:24:10 `rm oerjan/cat 13:24:10 `run delvs 13:24:13 No output. 13:24:15 `rmdir oerjan 13:24:15 bash: delvs: command not found 13:24:17 No output. 13:24:21 `run ./delvs 13:24:23 Usage: ./delvs 13:24:26 `run ./delvs foo 13:24:28 File: "foo" not found 13:24:32 `run ./delvs dog 13:24:34 No output. 13:24:37 `cat dog 13:24:38 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 13:24:40 Hrm. 13:24:53 `touch file 13:24:57 No output. 13:24:58 `echo Hi > file 13:25:00 Hi > file 13:25:03 `paste delvs 13:25:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs 13:25:11 Good idea. 13:25:35 bah, can't read x86 machine lang 13:25:49 `ndisasm 13:25:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ndisasm: not found 13:25:52 `./delvs --help 13:25:54 File: "--help" not found 13:26:46 `run readelf -s delvs | paste 13:26:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10305 13:26:54 `cat mind 13:26:55 No output. 13:27:02 `./delvs mind 13:27:04 No output. 13:27:04 `cat mind 13:27:05 No output. 13:27:31 `ls delvs-master/samples 13:27:33 hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf 13:27:37 oh 13:27:43 i think it may be a bf interpreter 13:27:44 brainfuck? 13:27:54 `./delvs delvs-master/hi.bf 13:27:56 File: "delvs-master/hi.bf" not found 13:28:01 I was just going to say "it might be interpreter, it has symbol called lexer" 13:28:06 nortti: :D 13:28:17 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi.bf 13:28:19 Hello World! 13:28:23 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:24 Hello World! 13:28:27 ? 13:28:33 `paste delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:34 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf 13:28:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:35 File: "delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf" not found 13:28:40 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 13:29:04 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2 13:29:05 File: "delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2" not found 13:29:08 Hmm. 13:29:11 No output. 13:29:13 yhat doesn't seem much like brainfuck 13:29:24 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/writetonull.bf 13:29:26 Segmentation fault 13:29:31 :D 13:29:31 :O 13:29:46 presumably a derivative, then. 13:30:08 :D' 13:31:00 `run :(){ :|:& };: 13:31:04 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Delvs 13:31:06 .. 13:31:06 No output. 13:31:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=delvs btw 13:31:14 why did I not check this first 13:32:37 `run tar txf master.tar.gz | paste 13:32:43 tar: You may not specify more than one `-Acdtrux' or `--test-label' option \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13265 13:32:53 `run tar tzf master.tar.gz | paste 13:32:55 bleh 13:32:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21268 13:33:17 `paste delvs-master/main.c 13:33:19 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/main.c 13:33:51 `paste delvs-master/delvs.h.c 13:33:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h.c 13:34:02 `paste delvs-master/delvs.h 13:34:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h 13:34:16 shikhin: ffs, use github 13:34:20 nortti: :D 13:34:34 shikhin: https://github.com/L8D/delvs 13:35:06 shikhin: you can also use the web interface at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ directly. 13:35:46 note how pasting a file just gives you the link to it there, and doesn't actually create a paste. 13:38:11 -!- Jafet has left. 13:38:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 13:38:25 `ls 13:38:27 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:38:42 `run mv delvs-master share 13:38:46 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:38:54 what 13:39:02 `ls share 13:39:04 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:39:22 `diff delvs-master share/delvs-master 13:39:24 diff: missing operand after `delvs-master share/delvs-master' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information. 13:39:36 `run diff delvs-master share/delvs-master 13:39:37 Only in delvs-master: bf.c \ Only in delvs-master: bf.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.rb \ Only in delvs-master: .gitignore \ Only in delvs-master: main.c \ Only in delvs-master: Makefile \ Only in delvs-master: README.md \ Common subdirectories: delvs-master/samples and share/delvs-mast 13:40:03 `rm -R share/delvs-master 13:40:04 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 13:40:09 `run rm -R share/delvs-master 13:40:11 No output. 13:40:17 `run mv delvs-master share 13:40:21 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:40:26 wtf! 13:40:36 `ls share/delvs-master 13:40:38 samples 13:40:44 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:40:46 No output. 13:40:54 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:41:04 `rmdir share/delvs-master/samples 13:41:05 No output. 13:41:11 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:41:12 ls: cannot access share/delvs-master/samples: No such file or directory 13:41:24 `rmdir share/delvs-master 13:41:25 No output. 13:41:30 `run mv delvs-master share 13:41:34 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:41:44 WHAT THE H* IS GOING ON 13:41:57 `ls share/delvs-master 13:42:00 samples 13:42:06 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:42:08 No output. 13:42:16 ~duck arisdottle 13:42:17 --- No relevant information 13:43:04 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:43:06 No output. 13:43:16 Jafet: what is an arisdottle? 13:43:27 `run mv share/delvs-master AAA 13:43:28 No output. 13:43:32 `ls share 13:43:34 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:43:38 `ls share 13:43:40 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:43:47 `run mv delvs-master share 13:43:52 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:43:53 Apparently it is perl for the :: operator. 13:44:10 ok there's something ridiculous here. 13:44:22 Jafet: like the infamous paamayim nekudotayim? 13:44:30 `ls share/delvs-master 13:44:32 samples 13:44:35 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:44:37 No output. 13:45:06 `ls 13:45:08 AAA \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:45:15 `ls AAA 13:45:17 samples 13:45:42 That is hebrew for we don't speak english motherfucker. 13:45:53 `rm -R AAA 13:45:55 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 13:45:59 `run rm -R AAA 13:46:00 No output. 13:46:05 `ls 13:46:07 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:46:08 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:25 `ls 13:46:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:46:27 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:46:40 I never realised this was a Daft Punk song 13:46:49 Even though there is pretty much no-one else it could be 13:47:10 `run rm -R share/delvs-master; mv delvs-master share 13:47:14 No output. 13:47:17 whewe 13:48:12 @tell gregor PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX 13:48:12 Consider it noted. 13:50:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:51:37 `ls 13:51:39 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:51:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 13:51:47 `rm master.tar.gz 13:51:51 No output. 13:52:11 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:52:13 hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf 13:52:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:52:19 `rm multiply.bf 13:52:23 No output. 13:52:36 `mv delvs bin 13:52:37 mv: missing destination file operand after `delvs bin' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 13:52:44 `run mv delvs bin 13:52:48 No output. 13:53:14 oerjan: who manages the script that unhthifies you? 13:53:24 boily: elliott made it. 13:53:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:03 elliott: can you add thx to the unørjanable three-letter-acronyms? 13:54:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:54:42 i use it _once_ and you want to remove it, sheesh 13:56:52 beuh... it only was for science. I'd have asked him to reput it back again afterwards... 13:57:44 you realize i have to manually install it, right? 13:57:59 oh. 14:04:59 Installing the diagrams library on an RPi takes a while 14:06:20 i thought haskell didn't work on an rpi 14:06:25 or was that just ghc 14:06:47 Phantom_Hoover, template haskell doesn't, and GHCi doesn't 14:06:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:07:41 Taneb, well one of those follows from the other 14:08:38 ...oh, template haskell 14:08:39 Taneb: happy hackage 2 day! 14:09:31 On another note entirely, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is out in the US but not the UK :( 14:11:31 Taneb: you don't happen to have S.H.I.E.L.D. comics do you? i have a long-standing wikipedia correction that i cannot do because no one ever answered me about whether they _really_ misspelled Isaac Newton in the comics. 14:11:42 Taneb, don't worry, it'll be cancelled before it makes it here 14:12:09 Phantom_Hoover, by 8PM Friday? 14:12:13 oerjan, no I don't 14:12:17 darn. 14:12:25 I have precisely two Marvel comics 14:12:26 Taneb, it is whedon after all 14:12:39 8PM Friday!!! 14:13:03 Phantom_Hoover, he brought a character back to life so maybe it will be uncancelled 14:13:41 ooh wait someone has answered! 14:14:06 Yay 14:14:10 "New York Times' Brooks Barnes [...] added that "what goes over well at Comic-Con does not necessarily work in the real world,"" 14:14:23 yep, seems plausible 14:14:49 Phantom_Hoover, next you'll tell me I can't turn up to lectures in my Wonder Woman cosplay 14:15:11 nah, you'll be fine there 14:16:49 -!- conehead has joined. 14:17:19 (are you doing maths or cs again, i forget) 14:17:30 (both) 14:18:03 (so in a weird way you did not forget at all) 14:25:09 Taneb: not without uploading to youtube you can't! 14:25:43 wait is that a double negative or not. maybe triple. 14:26:59 oerjan: quadruple negative: “not”, “without”, “youtube” and “can't”. 14:27:08 O KAY 14:36:53 you shouldn't never underestimate the negative absence of the negations that are not there. 14:37:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:38:43 NO KAY 14:39:52 misunderestimate 14:56:48 -!- shikhin has changed nick to draumr. 14:57:00 -!- draumr has changed nick to draumr_. 15:00:11 -!- draumr_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:09:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:12:46 FheeFullo. 15:14:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:15:03 boily 15:16:21 is that a stealth hello with my name? 15:17:33 boily boily boily, boily boily. 15:22:09 "Heily borld!" is a typical first program in a programming language. 15:26:22 -!- asie has joined. 15:26:43 I'm having trouble picking a CPU architecture (or simple programming language implemented as a CPU) for a Minecraft computing mod 15:27:32 asie: z80? 15:27:42 boily: i've always been fond of the 6502 15:27:47 but it feels boring, stale and just wrong in many aspects 15:27:54 the z80 is better but i've never really got into the z80 15:28:17 there's a first time to everything ☺ 15:28:23 as in i tried it 15:28:28 but i didn't really like it 15:28:32 meh. 15:28:34 i was considering going custom but it's hard to make a fake CPU arch 15:29:03 motorola 68k? mips? some horrendous CISC architecture? 15:29:58 (not x86. it doesn't even count as an architecture. more like a chaotic borg cube that happens to be cube shaped, but entirely by accident.) 15:30:05 x86 is ugly 15:30:10 80286. 15:30:55 SuperH? 15:32:06 You should work out the minecraft laws of physics and design an architecture around it. 15:32:16 Jafet: the only rule is sand falls 15:32:32 How far can you miniaturize it? Will tunneling become a barrier? 15:34:15 asie, subleq 15:34:24 failing that: reduceron 15:34:26 Phantom_Hoover: it can't be too minimalist 15:34:33 because it can't run too slow in practice 15:34:37 so subleq/BF-level stuff is out 15:34:45 befunge could be interesting 15:35:41 or perhaps a minor iteration on ARMv2? 15:35:46 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:36:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:36:29 redcode! 15:37:41 redcode isn't a half-bad idea 15:38:07 Anything involving RAM is not going to work. 15:38:29 i once tried making a TM in minecraft 15:38:40 Jafet: It's amod 15:38:41 a mod* 15:38:46 Not a build 15:38:55 It's a mod, so I can implement anything I want 15:39:13 ...and now i'm thinking how i might do so once more 15:39:46 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:39:56 Phantom_Hoover: tons of pistons 15:40:12 might be possible to do it with only a few, actually 15:40:12 since a few MC versions ago, some blocks send a redstone signal through and some don't 15:40:25 that's your tape 15:40:32 yeah, that's what i was using 15:40:40 do it in a magnetic way 15:40:41 i had a read/write head set up with dirt/glass 15:40:47 always have both dirt and glass 15:40:51 and just swap their order 15:40:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:41:00 yes, this is exactly what i had 15:41:26 moving the tape was the problem, but now i'm wondering if you could use back-to-back piston shuttles at each end 15:41:28 can you mux signals on a redstone wire? 15:41:37 Phantom_Hoover: the max length is 16, i think 15:41:40 boily: with redlogic yes 15:41:53 Phantom_Hoover: so you can have a 63-length tape by making a 16x16 square 15:42:02 and just pushing it through on all 4 corners every time 15:42:15 asie, for the purposes of the exercise i'm assuming it's infinite 15:42:32 Phantom_Hoover: an INFINITE piston tape, now... 15:43:04 also: you could divide the tape into... 12-cell chunks, with pistons at each end 15:43:11 and move them through in turn 15:43:36 hm? 15:45:08 well you know how if you have two sticky pistons with their faces pointed together they can be moved by extending them in turn 15:49:23 the basic idea is to have 'carriages' of those, with wires at the side controlling their movement 15:49:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:49:58 and then you line a bunch of them up to get past the 16-block limit on pistons 16:00:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:05:16 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:05:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:10:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:10:55 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:29:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:29:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:37:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:47:14 -!- Bike has joined. 16:48:37 -!- asie has joined. 16:50:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:50:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:50:54 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 17:07:47 -!- augur has joined. 17:10:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 17:30:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:46:01 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:46:06 -!- yorick_ has joined. 17:46:48 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:07:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:19:43 -!- Bike has joined. 18:21:17 -!- yorick_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:22:47 -!- conehead has joined. 18:30:42 hm. I ordered a keyboard this morning. a few hours later, I get a reply from paypal and the site that my order's been cancelled and refunded. 18:30:58 apparently, I managed to order an out of production, out of stock keyboard. 18:31:01 * boily sighs 18:33:36 maybe you can get a used keyboard of the same kind? 18:36:56 -!- yorick has joined. 18:38:20 olsner: bah. I ordered the new generation, the one that the support guy positively asserted that is in stock and exists. 18:50:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:55:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 19:02:24 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:21:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 19:34:32 ~yi 19:34:32 Your divination: "Prospering" to "Obstruction" 19:34:49 obstruction indeed. been struggling with database integrity errors the whole day. 19:37:19 -!- asie has joined. 19:37:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:39:14 I thought the whole point about a (relational) database is that you don't have to. :p 19:40:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:40:15 http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/ 19:41:14 «You're probably okay.» 19:41:41 so you aren't using MySQL then 19:42:04 apparently my database is "Probably pretty fucked." 19:42:59 I like the error messages. 19:43:18 (My irclog database is probably okay.) 19:45:51 kmc: OpenERP only runs on Postgres. which is a strangely sane choice, considering the rest of the framework can make you become schizophreniac. 19:46:05 erp erp erp erp erp 19:46:06 boily: maybe it bundles MySQL for the other database 19:47:11 olsner: afaik, you are right. 19:47:20 * boily shakes kmc 19:47:46 http://howfuckedismydistro.com/gentoo/ I um pffffff 19:48:05 i see only darkness 19:48:12 oh. oh my. 19:49:09 is it... compiling the kernel on boot? 19:49:31 needs -funroll-loops for speed 19:50:01 it's. I... I can't describe that. there is green text impacting my optical nerves. I feeel uneasy. I give you a hamburger. 19:50:24 I skipped to the end. :/ 19:50:26 Fiora: this is good 19:50:32 Fiora: are you on gentoo? 19:50:36 at work, yeah ^^; 19:50:38 "Okay, you're just fucked." 19:51:08 im too dumb to get the joke so far 19:53:15 oh i think i 'get' it in the sense that i see the joke too late to find it funny 19:54:06 I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of this site. 19:54:09 It might be a joke of some kind. 19:54:14 Alternately, it might not. 19:54:29 oerjan said 6h 6m 6s ago: PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX // No. 19:54:45 In this handy, compact guide, you’ll explore a ton of powerful Ubuntu Linux commands while you learn to use Ubuntu Linux as the experts do: from the command line. Try out more than 1,000 commands to find and get software, monitor system health and security, and access network resources. Then, apply the skills you learn from this book to use and administer desktops and servers running Ubuntu, Debian, and KNOPPIX or any other Linux distribution. 19:55:48 there's no arch page ;_; 19:55:53 Nor Slackware. 19:56:00 Gregor, it benefits from seeing the rest of the site first 19:56:10 it's only ubuntu, debian, gentoo, and redhat, it seems 19:56:11 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, I poked around a bit. 19:56:13 I "get it" 19:59:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:59:13 who else arches? 20:00:11 nooooobyd 20:00:58 nooooobyd, the Evil Cousin with a Goatee of Nooodl? 20:02:31 i do because elliott bullied me 20:02:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:04:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:04:28 -!- atriq has joined. 20:04:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:05:40 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:06:52 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:07:58 elliott: stop bullying people, even if you are bringing them on the Bright Path of the Best Distro doing so. 20:19:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:20:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:21:52 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:22:22 for completely unknown and mysterious reasons, wikipedians saw fit to put the pronounciation for the local variations on “that's greek to me” → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_to_me 20:25:02 "It is for me a Spanish village." — Czech 20:26:01 interesting use of "pronunciation" there boily 20:26:24 ...it's the normal one? 20:26:53 oh, i thought they meant the different phrases 20:27:24 s/noun/nun/ 20:27:50 i like fish-egg language 20:28:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:28:45 did somebody put together the graph of the languages here 20:29:58 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/graph2.png ← someone did. 20:30:05 good 20:30:06 I'd feel bad about conflating "Chinese" and Mandarin, or "Greek" and- well, great. 20:30:07 (well. for the mainest languages) 20:30:08 <3 languagelog forever 20:31:02 Which graph is that graph? 20:31:22 the graph of languages using one another as idiomatically incomprehensible 20:31:38 Ah. 20:31:40 kind of wondering about aramaic, i didn't know it was common enough for people to think about 20:31:50 like, within the last two thousand years, i mean 20:31:55 there doesn't seem to be much progress lately on xkcd's beanish :( 20:32:06 i blame the bible 20:32:08 for aramaic I mean 20:32:13 Also also: non-planar representations of planar graphs are nasty. 20:32:13 Bike: everybody speaks aramaic. fsvo speaks. 20:32:17 I don't know what xkcd whatever is and I'm not sure if I can blame the bible or not 20:32:20 for some, non-speaks value of speaks 20:32:45 romanian -> turkish -> french -> hebrew -> chinese -> heavenly script 20:33:05 i thought it was... idk, some kind of language fascist thing 20:33:12 i have a chinese novel that has some heavenly script in it. unfortunately the novel is too hard for me to read 20:33:15 thought what was? 20:33:21 the graph 20:33:33 hmm, Hindi is missing a link... is it Chinese? is it Heavenly script? is it Greek? 20:33:44 maybe sanskrit? 20:34:01 that would be reasonably closely analogous to greek, at least 20:34:02 also somewhat disappointed about the lack of loops 20:34:41 india has like a billion languages and all though, maybe they ust pick the language of a random province 20:34:49 it's all kannada to me 20:35:00 I am at kannada. 20:35:07 it's all sindhalese to me 20:37:17 boily: it's spoken in karnataka. having the languages and provinces have the same names or even geographical areas would be way too simple. 20:37:33 oh, that's where mysore was, neat 20:37:58 maybe they could just use "indian" as the gibberish language 20:38:09 there should be at least slightly fewer than a billion indian languages anyone doesn't speak 20:38:10 nobody uses 'english' do they :/ 20:38:44 i dunno olsner, where i live analogous terms like "American" "Mexican" or "Canadian" are only used to imply that you're an idiot 20:40:00 Nobody uses Finnish either, even though (for some strange reason) it's often used as a prototypical hard-to-learn language. 20:40:15 in my imaginary world it's because people notice it's not IE. 20:41:26 fizzie: probably because Hungarian holds the spotlight when people think about difficult to learn finno-ugric languages. 20:41:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:42:25 that reminds me I still have to learn Estonian. 20:42:33 `ls 20:42:36 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 20:42:40 I believe one of the words for gibberish in swedish is cognate with 'welsh' 20:42:49 boily: But nobody's using Hungarian either. 20:43:24 boily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEI06J00nk hth. 20:43:34 Gregor: did you _see_ the mess i had earlier today trying to move a directory from top level to share/ ? 20:43:44 `canary 20:43:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: canary: not found 20:44:06 `file bin` 20:44:08 bin`: POSIX shell script text executable 20:44:16 `bin` 20:44:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bin`: not found 20:44:19 `cat bin` 20:44:21 ​#!/bin/sh 20:44:25 golly 20:44:31 oerjan: DON'T CARE 20:44:56 Gregor: but WHY (is it happening in the first place :( ) 20:45:46 Because Mercurial doesn't support adding empty directories to the repository. 20:45:54 Bike: what is that mysteriõus thing... 20:46:10 Gregor: i'm not talking about adding them, but removing. 20:46:37 oerjan: All of the transactional file behavior is based on hg changes. 20:46:47 Since it doesn't recognize the removal of a directory as a change, it doesn't know that anything has been done. 20:47:41 Bike: his eyes. they disturb me. 20:48:30 Gregor: when HackEgo runs a command, does it get an entirely new copy of the file structure to run in? 20:48:42 `? monoid 20:48:44 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 20:49:04 oerjan: No. 20:49:13 `pastewisdom 20:49:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 20:50:16 Gregor: it was completely ridiculous btw, i removed the directory and ls in a later command shows it as not being there; but when i try to move the new version into there it breaks down claiming the spot's already occupied. 20:50:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:50:59 Gregor: the only thing that worked was removing the old directory and moving to it in the same command. 20:51:25 Yup. 20:51:52 I know it's confusing, but it's not easy to fix and not a common enough problem for me to care. 20:55:22 argh my back starts acting up as soon as i sit down with the laptop :( 20:55:56 been that way since monday morning or so. 20:56:22 -!- Bike has joined. 20:56:28 pretty much any way of sitting with a laptop is bad for the back 20:57:00 Gregor: are codu pretty logs still broked? 20:57:19 boily: it's an estonian cartoon, obviously. one i like. 20:57:20 Yup >_> <_< 20:57:31 apparently this aired on tv for children to watch at least once! 20:58:08 I sent it to a coworker. he likes it. 20:58:16 damn straight he does. 20:59:00 is it as good as worker and parasite 20:59:16 (real) soviet cartoons are way better than worker and parasite. 20:59:27 they do look about as freaky at times, tho. 21:02:10 Phantom_Hoover: I prefer cow orkers, but only in fiction. 21:05:09 cow orker is one of my favorite puns 21:07:13 Huh that was strange, doing ls on the NFS mount was out of sync compared to doing ls on the ssh session. This lasted for about half a minute until the NFS mount caught up as it were. 21:07:29 I didn't even know NFS could return a stale state, I thought it would block 21:07:51 NFS can do *anything* 21:08:07 NFS ate my balls 21:08:16 olsner, fair enough 21:09:00 `? things NFS can do 21:09:02 things NFS can do? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:10:13 myndzi: ? 21:10:38 good night 21:10:43 boily: Phantom_Hoover got myndzi to ignore HackEgo. 21:10:59 oh did i 21:11:01 he got fed up with precisely that figure. 21:11:48 Vorpal: 'night! 21:11:52 Phantom_Hoover: well i recall _someone_ did, and you're the kind of person who might. 21:14:12 `echo \o/ 21:14:12 | 21:14:13 |\ 21:14:13 ​\o/ 21:14:21 if Foo is a struct do you think one should be able to assign to fields of Foo through pattern matching,. i.e. (foo.x, foo.y) = f(); 21:15:14 http://sprunge.us/KdCj <- NFS can. 21:15:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:15:40 kmc: Foo <$> f, but I have this feeling you're talking about Rust. 21:16:12 “nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified” 21:16:18 that's not really assignment... 21:16:43 boily: i don't think Foo <$> f works if f returns a pair. 21:16:59 Canon - you can. 21:17:12 fizzie has been an adbot this entire time 21:17:13 oerjan: there are some fuzzy-tuple-y details that my tired brain can't figure out at the moment. 21:17:28 boily: try eating some curry 21:17:37 "nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified" this is good. 21:17:41 oerjan: only on Tuesday nights, after the movies. 21:17:51 fizzie: other people talk about salmiakki? 21:18:06 kmc: is there an argument against doing it? 21:18:19 I'm talking about Rust and other related languages 21:18:35 anything with structures with named fields, assignment, and destructuring / pattern-matching 21:18:45 I mean Python allows this, but it doesn't really have a distinction between assignment and declaration 21:19:57 does anyone happen to know offhand if the following is possible on Windows: create a DLL that has undefined symbols that are linked in from the process that includes it? 21:19:58 boily: <[REDACTED Finnish person on a different channel]> btw, i can bring you mämmi and salmiakki from finland. 21:20:20 hmm, mämmi, we get that in shops here sometimes... what the heck is it? 21:20:22 this works just fine on Linux 21:20:29 ~duck mämmi 21:20:29 --- No relevant information 21:20:31 but I'm not sure how to do it on Windows, or even if it's possible 21:20:42 (context: porting a program which does this from Linux to Windows) 21:20:44 AAAAURGH! for the one legitimate use of ~duck, I get no infos. 21:21:08 like, the dll uses the symbols, which are resolved at link time by the program...? 21:21:21 !fromto fi en mämmi 21:21:31 Bike: yeah, basically program X includes DLL Y; X has a global variable, Y can read from and write to that variable 21:21:49 not sure if the linker can do it automatically, but I'm pretty sure a DLL can get the handle of the process that linked it and resolve symbols manually that way 21:22:10 olsner: well on Linux it just works, even without attributes or special compiler options 21:22:29 on mingw it doesn't, the linker complains about unresolved symbols when building the DLL 21:22:32 ~duck memma 21:22:32 Mmmi is a traditional Finnish Easter dessert. 21:22:37 Oi mämmi, Suomi, synnyinmaa 21:22:39 * boily headdesks. 21:22:56 oerjan: You made a laugh appear. 21:23:09 and none of the options that should tell it to just go with it seem to have any effect 21:23:39 "Anyone who has watched cuttlefish will know that if there was ever an animal that wears its heart on its sleeve, it is Sepia." :3 21:25:11 meanwhile, aimake currently crashes mingw ld 21:25:19 and nonetheless works 21:25:21 yay! 21:25:26 you just get the dialog box popping up telling you that ld crashed 21:25:42 Bike: <3 21:25:43 it crashes after finishing the output file? 21:25:54 olsner: well I'm running under -t to try to locate the system libraries 21:26:18 however, the system libraries are static libraries, thus they won't normally be mentioned unless at least one symbol in them is referenced 21:26:29 so my solution was to use --whole-archive to tell it to just link the whole thing 21:26:32 Bike, kmc: I'm watching you. any attempt at eating my bot will result to your extradition to Canada. in winter. 21:27:18 why does metasepia even have a shirt 21:27:35 a shirt? 21:27:46 s/to/in/ 21:27:53 s/in/with/ 21:28:07 anyway, my DLL reverse export problem has quite a lot of freedom 21:28:17 the Great Preposition Shift 21:28:37 I'm allowed (allowing myself) to assume mingw gcc, mingw ld, and can put arbitrary attributes on the variables in question, at both the importing and exporting sites 21:29:12 is the variable dllimport:ed when building Y? 21:29:24 olsner: I can choose 21:29:28 atm I'm putting a dllimport on it 21:29:37 because it seems unlikely to work if I don't 21:29:39 however, it doesn't work anyway 21:29:51 (it just changes whether the linker contains about a missing "variable" or "__imp_variable") 21:30:12 hmm, yes, that would need to work for it to work with that alone 21:30:13 ais523: so is this also a step to making nethack4 work on windows 21:30:18 oerjan: yes, how did you guess? 21:30:35 ais523: Have you tried making a "fake" DLL that defines all those symbols, then an import library for that, and then use that when linking the DLL? (Disclaimer: probably won't work.) 21:30:39 actually I could just statically link everything, but I'm trying to keep the nitrohack code as originally intended 21:30:50 ais523: i've been stalking you on reddit. 21:30:59 fizzie: if you're going to that much effort you could just put the variable in a DLL of its own, and import it in both places 21:31:18 I've always wondered what the import libraries are for on windows, maybe you need one of those for the executable's exports and link it into the dll 21:31:20 (aka "friending") 21:31:22 which is something I'm considering for if it's impossible to do it the intended ways 21:31:41 ais523: Oh, I sort of assumed you can't change the program. 21:31:46 olsner: that would require each of the executable and DLL to be built before the other 21:31:53 fizzie: well I'm trying to get aimake to do this automatically 21:32:00 it can't change the program in anything other than very simple, mechanical ways 21:32:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:32:46 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:50 like, nothing requiring strong AI, please 21:32:55 Snowflake was bad enough ;) 21:32:58 * ;-) 21:33:30 perhaps the problem is that --no-undefined is default on windows and you need to disable it 21:33:58 olsner: I was wondering about that 21:34:08 the problem is that it doesn't seem to have an opposite 21:34:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:34:14 I haven't tried --no-no-undefined yet, I guess 21:34:20 (--undefined means something entirely different) 21:34:31 how logical. 21:39:52 http://www.sourceware.org/autobook/autobook/autobook_88.html "Unfortunately, there are some architectures (notably AIX and Windows) which require that all symbols are resolved when the library is linked." 21:40:30 oerjan: thanks 21:40:34 ais523: MSVC has a "delayed loading" feature which essentially makes the linker include LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress code to do the linking at first call/use. Something along those lines might work, but I don't think MinGW includes a similar feature. 21:40:35 My plan to run diagrams on an RPi has hit a flaw 21:40:53 now, I guess my big moral question is, should I remove the (already-working) reverse import feature on Linux, on the basis that it makes programs less portable? 21:42:03 Taneb: is it TH? 21:42:14 oerjan, no, I got past that 21:42:22 It's gtk taking aaaages to compile 21:42:34 fancy 21:43:18 what actually is diagrams 21:43:30 Phantom_Hoover, Haskell library for drawing pretty pictures 21:43:51 it's pretty great 21:43:52 Huh, mingw-w64 in fact does support delay-loaded libs. But it does not seem immediately useful for your use case, it's just a dlltool option that can make an import library that does the delay-loading. 21:45:06 wait, you can make diagrams in haskell? 21:45:17 "-add-indirect: Specifies that when dlltool is creating the exports file it should add a section which allows the exported functions to be referenced without using the import library. Whatever the hell that means!" (dlltool manual) 21:45:23 http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html 21:46:31 I think I'll just leave it running overnight 21:47:13 fizzie: mingw can link to DLLs directly without going through the import library 21:47:18 Taneb: You could cross-compile your things on a Real Computer. (And AIUI you can get a Real Computer with a nickel.) 21:47:37 fizzie, but that takes eeeeffooort 21:47:40 presumably, on the basis that it's possible to mechanically create an import library from a DLL, so the linker may as well do that itself 21:49:21 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:50:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:50:47 bleh, why don't domain names tab-complete 21:51:05 ais523: Anyhow, you can (at least in theory) make an import library for the executable before linking it, by constructing a .def file containing the exported symbols and then processing that with dlltool. Then you might attempt to link the DLL against that, and the executable against the DLL. 21:51:28 I doubt it would work due to loading order 21:51:30 I wouldn't rank the chances of that working terribly high, but you never know. 21:52:35 hmm, someone's been trying to access pages like /admin.php on my server 21:52:38 I don't even have PHP installed! 21:52:56 I guess this is what drive-by attacks against webservers look like 21:53:03 <-- "beanish" is what xkcd forumers call the invented language in xkcd's "time" story. 21:53:06 oops 21:53:10 mischan? 21:53:12 kmc: ^ 21:53:24 ais523: no, just forgot to include kmc's quote :P 21:53:58 ais523: yeah if you run a webserver on a public IP you will get loads of that kind of thing 21:54:01 every day 21:54:09 if you run a SSH server on a public IP you will get a lot of password guessing attempts 21:54:18 imo don't put a SSH server on the public internet if it accepts passowrds at all 21:55:18 kmc: I have fail2ban installed 21:55:33 also a username that's unlikely to be guessed without human interaction, and a non-dictionary password 21:55:55 those drive-by ssh attacks don't catch anyone even slightly competent, they just spam the logs 21:56:11 -!- conehead has joined. 21:58:26 -!- Bike has joined. 21:59:22 ais523: Heh. The procedure I described is able to generate an executable. Sadly, I don't have a Wine installation or a Windows VM or a running Windows box handy at the moment, so I don't know what it'd say when trying to run that file. 22:00:28 my guess is segfault 22:00:36 but I'll try it some time just to see what happens 22:00:40 assuming I even have dlltool installed 22:00:44 @tell boily I am at kannada. <-- ಠ_ಠ 22:00:44 Consider it noted. 22:00:45 ¯|¯⌠ 22:00:45 /< | 22:01:05 ais523: http://sprunge.us/JNPg is what I did, for the record. 22:02:07 I'm not surprised it links; I'd think it has a very high chance of linking 22:02:15 you told the DLL that it'd be getting the variable from another DLL, so it linked 22:02:19 Hmm. " : No such file or directory", is what Wine at work says. 22:02:25 and you told the executable that it'd be linking to the DLL, so it's fine too 22:03:33 Though it seems to say that for everything, perhaps a non-worky Wine install. 22:04:06 Oh, an old broken ~/.wine symlink. 22:04:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:04:47 -!- conehead has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:04:51 `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA'; unicode 'LOW LINE'; unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 22:04:54 ​ಠ \ _ \ ಠ 22:05:08 ais523: 22:05:11 [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ wine ./app.exe 22:05:11 [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ echo $? 22:05:11 42 22:05:15 What say you to that? 22:05:28 `quote pressure 22:05:30 603) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? \ 7 22:05:33 wat 22:05:38 (Disclaimer: not tested on an actual Windows system.) 22:05:39 `quote apply pressure 22:05:41 oerjan: it was a spambot 22:05:41 1018) ◊_______________________◊ help. jesus christ elliott apply pressure evenly when jamming eyes open 22:05:45 I love that apps in Wine can make native Linux syscalls too 22:05:50 that I quoted in-channel 22:05:52 ais523: what? 22:05:56 i don't even understand why i said that 22:06:09 oerjan: I thought it was particularly amusing spam 22:06:11 it makes me want to write Linux malware that masquerades as a Windows game 22:06:12 kmc, isn't that inevitable? 22:06:13 so I pasted it in the channel 22:06:17 then it got quoted 22:06:27 Phantom_Hoover: why shouldn't I love inevitable things 22:06:30 kmc: neat, you could make it Windows malware too 22:06:48 Phantom_Hoover: it's not what you'd expect if you (wrongly) believed wine is a full "emulator" 22:07:09 elliott: Hourglass has similar issues, of spilling out to the surrounding system 22:07:20 Web of Lies attempts to deal with the issue via sandboxing as well as syscall translation 22:07:23 hourglass? 22:07:28 I wonder if JITs in any actual emulators have vulnerabilities/code execution issues 22:07:28 i admittedly only 'got' it when hanging around with microcosm 22:07:41 think web of lies but for Windows, even less reliable, but less insane 22:07:47 it's not mine, nitsuja wrote it 22:08:03 Fiora: I doubt it's impossible 22:08:08 that';s the thing used in the windows game TASes right 22:08:18 I spent some time looking for bugs in dosbox 22:08:19 as in, it's probably happened somewhere 22:08:21 mnoqy: yes 22:08:24 it's easy to make it deref a null pointer and crash 22:08:26 `url bin/unicode 22:08:28 ais523: Incidentally, the concept of using a .DEF file to handle circular dependencies within DLLs is documented in MSDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/kkt2hd12%28v=VS.90%29.aspx 22:08:28 so like you can change the syscalls in the kernel, right? 22:08:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/unicode 22:08:35 aiui that's what hackego does 22:08:47 ais523: I suppose the case of the program and DLL is not very far from two DLLs depending on each other, really. 22:08:55 (So maybe it'd work outside Wine too.) 22:09:03 oh. 22:09:18 `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 'LOW LINE' 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 22:09:20 ​ಠ_ಠ 22:09:30 fizzie: it even mentions it works for an executable an library that depend on each other 22:09:35 so I guess this is what I will have to make aimake do 22:09:43 ais523: Oh, I didn't read it all that closely. 22:10:02 darn i should have @told boily that instead. 22:10:11 missed opportunity. 22:10:13 `run unicode 'SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW' 22:10:15 ​⛄ 22:10:46 impossible 22:11:39 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:11:43 kannada oh kannada i never was your son 22:12:22 `run unicode 22:12:24 No output. 22:13:29 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T' 22:13:31 fungut 22:13:35 so close 22:13:38 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T' 22:13:40 fungot 22:13:47 but fungot ignores HackEgo doesn't it... 22:13:47 kmc: pro. but loue first learned in a ladies lappe, and decke the temples of mars, whose spirit in you fnord the bringer out of the bloody fingers of thy foes. 22:13:48 so sad 22:13:56 `run unicode rm -rf / 22:13:58 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'rm'" 22:14:04 mnoqy: nice 1 22:14:25 `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET' 22:14:27 ​︘ 22:14:40 kmc: more importantly, HackEgo adds the initial zero-width space. 22:14:51 hmm what 22:14:57 `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LEFT WHITE LENTICULAR BRACKET' 22:14:59 ​︗ 22:15:03 those are backwards :/ 22:15:08 oh hm i guess that wouldn't affect babbling. 22:16:17 coppro: i dunno they look identical to me 22:18:35 interesting, these brackets seem to make irssi glitch 22:20:03 i didn't notice any glitch. although sometimes i see fanciful unicode take a while to appear, but i guess that's on the font lookup end of putty? 22:20:37 00:164:50 ok, i didn't see that, also my own message got in between. 22:21:13 try ^L 22:21:52 hm i guess tmux would neutralize ^L ... 22:22:08 yeah, ^L fixes that, but it reappears if i change windows 22:22:24 There's always /clear. 22:22:26 oh well everything i s bugy 22:22:30 oerjan: the right one is concave down on my irssi 22:23:07 but it's supposed to be concave up 22:23:13 and the opposite is true for the left 22:23:19 * coppro tries to figure what font that is 22:23:23 * oerjan checks logs with browser, oh so that is how it's supposed to look. 22:23:57 it looks right for me 22:24:02 i just see a narrow rectangle in irssi/putty. 22:24:05 * coppro blames unifont 22:24:15 myname: the right brakcet is concave up? 22:24:22 yeah 22:24:35 which is identical for the two, but not the same as the usual "unknown character". 22:32:56 `unicode REPLACEMENT CHARACTER 22:32:57 ​� 22:33:38 https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-September/005678.html ASCII control characters STX and ETX make great string literal delimeters for a programming language, right? 22:36:51 well, at least it's not an argument about comment syntax 22:36:59 yeah it's about string literal syntax 22:37:06 I know, reading it now 22:37:15 the two are weirdly related though 22:37:37 fun fact: a bug in the NHGPL made me have to change the text tile format parser, just so I could add comments to the files specifying that I'd changed them 22:37:49 traditionally comments and strings are the two constructs which let you suspend the normal lexical rules of the language for an arbitrary span of characters 22:37:54 and they interact in weird ways 22:37:56 actually the NHGPL doesn't really make much sense in the context of DVCSes 22:38:04 heh 22:38:49 anyway, I'm pretty sure that the NetHack devteam aren't following it to the letter 22:39:23 so I'm just trying to follow it as best I can, and if they sue me over it, I'll claim I was following it more precisely than they were, and the way they were acting gave me the impression that they considered that interpretation of the NHGPL acceptable 22:40:17 sounds like a plan. 22:40:48 is the bug that change notices have to be in the same file? 22:41:41 oerjan: yes 22:42:23 -!- conehead has joined. 22:43:15 think i might be the only person left on earth who ever has a browser window that isn't full screen 22:43:20 judging by trends in web design 22:43:24 kmc: I do sometimes, but I normally fullscreen it 22:43:57 oerjan: I remember I asked you that once before, but is 3-cell brainfuck still turing-complete if we replace > and < with naming the cells? 22:43:58 kmc: no me too, because i like to be able to see if there's irc activity behind it 22:44:15 (so basically, forbid unmatched > and < in the brainfuck program) 22:44:40 Koen__: yes, the collatz function reduction doesn't use unmatched <>s 22:44:46 thank you 22:45:30 i don't even have windows that aren't full screen `-` 22:46:06 Bike: I tend to be quite consistent about which windows I fullscreen, and which I leave floating 22:46:29 normally floating windows are things I use to amuse myself during long compiles, or else are always-on-topped things I want to keep an eye on 22:46:33 Koen__: i tried for quite a while to see if there was any way to _use_ unmatched >< to get around my problems before finding the collatz functions, but i couldn't think of anything it helped with when you just have 3 cells. 22:46:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:46:41 if I need to keep an eye on two things that fill the screen, I just alpha-blend them 22:46:47 it's confusing but not impossible to read 22:47:06 it helps with making algorithms harder to predict :-) 22:47:07 I like to have docs and code side by side 22:47:28 Koen__: also i still haven't found a way to split up the final integer produced for printing. :( 22:47:42 split up? 22:48:09 I'm not really sure I know how to look at the collatz sequences to consider them a programming language 22:48:10 https://github.com/mzeo/xslt-brainfuck because fuck you :D 22:48:17 i love it 22:48:54 Koen__: as in, i haven't found a way to compute arbitrary output with just 3 cells. 22:49:04 (as a function of input.) 22:49:13 alright 22:51:44 Koen__: you just program in fractran and convert that to a collatz function. 22:52:02 okay 22:53:58 and that again is essentially programming a minsky machine, except the registers are prime exponents and you need some flag bits or similar to control flow. 22:54:52 (the flag bits are also prime exponents) 22:55:54 and any non-IO using bf program without unmatched <> can be mechanically converted to a minsky machine. 22:56:56 (without unmatched <>, as you noted, you essentially have named cells, which is the same as minsky machine registers.) 22:57:32 oh hm i guess you want the bf program not to use negative numbers :) 22:57:50 I don't really care about negative numbers, I think 22:57:52 (or wrapping, naturally) 22:57:53 hmm, not sure 22:58:05 well wrapping in 3-cell brainfuck would mean the cells are bounded 22:58:10 that would be quite inconvenient 22:59:00 what if it only wraps in one direction 22:59:02 indeed. btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages. 22:59:23 ais523: then that would make it irreversible! 22:59:46 bf isn't reversible. 22:59:58 then that would make it even less so 23:00:00 or you mean, impossible to undo in any way 23:00:13 yeah I know [-] is hard to undo 23:00:33 any way all bf mentions in the above are intended to have unbounded cells. 23:01:15 bf implementation where incrementing a cell at its max value makes the increment spill into a random nearby cell 23:01:19 not sure what you meant with "btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages." 23:01:22 hmm, what about we make it wrap from -1 to 0, 256 to 0, and include a "square" instruction 23:01:28 but as usual, two unbounded registers is enough to simulate a tape of bounded ones. 23:01:46 so you can get vaues above 256 23:01:55 I think it's from -1 to 255? 23:02:28 Koen__: i mean what i've described can be used as unbounded n-cell bf -> n-register minsky machine -> fractran -> collatz function -> unbounded 3-cell bf 23:02:33 Koen__: sure? I'm not 23:03:31 Bike: :D 23:05:03 Koen__: psst he's slyly referring to another language with a fishy smell 23:05:31 oerjan: we need a new featured language, really 23:05:40 ais523: neither am I 23:05:53 oerjan: hmmmmm is that the new fisherman language? 23:05:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:06:07 Koen__: are you being dense tcnh 23:06:10 also why do I have two _ in my name 23:06:23 I only had one this morning 23:06:29 (i didn't mean to misspell the acronyum but when i did i'll take advantage of it) 23:07:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:10 Koen__: because you pinged out at some point? 23:07:24 DID I 23:07:45 quite possibly. 23:07:51 I would ping back in but I'm quite lazy 23:18:28 -!- Bike has joined. 23:24:02 gah, the fucking bbc still won't air parks and rec season 3 23:24:17 fuckers 23:24:36 get a free trial EC2 VM in the US and proxy Hulu through it 23:24:42 or you know, bittorrent 23:24:52 hmm 23:25:24 i hope i can still torrent in this year's flat... 23:29:07 imo move to sweden 23:29:33 i will shove your elbows down your fucking gullet 23:30:15 channeling malcolm tucker are we 23:30:35 one of many BBC shows on Hulu :3 23:32:07 fucking americans 23:32:11 fucking capitalism 23:32:37 :D 23:34:06 can't wait for the tories to get around to gutting them 23:34:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:33 lol 23:34:51 privatize the BBC and then buy it back later at a massive loss, just like the railroads 23:35:07 actually I don't know if the govt took a loss on rail infrastructure or not 23:35:20 but iirc they had to take over a lot of it because the trains kept crashing 23:35:43 kmc: I actually did some work experience with Network Rail 23:36:02 it's sort-of partly public, partly private, as far as I can tell 23:36:19 i wonder if bbc scotland would split off if scotland became independent 23:36:35 shouldn't it be sbc 23:36:49 well it would be if it was split off 23:37:37 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:38:00 well Scotland is still part of Britain, officially 23:38:05 so the name's still accurate 23:38:09 although a little weird 23:38:29 it'd be like calling the BBC the "European Broadcasting Company Britain" 23:38:35 "if scotland became independent" 23:38:41 that would also be inaccurate 23:39:13 in that it implies that "EBC Britain" is part of or at least subordinate to the EBC 23:39:56 i like how we're assuming 'britain' is a well-defined entity here, too 23:42:25 more like britain't 23:52:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:57:04 Provisional BBC, Real BBC 23:57:35 continuity bbc 23:59:29 Phantom_Hoover: well the island is well-defined 23:59:37 apart from that, there's not that much in the way of precise definitions 23:59:58 I guess the archipelago is also well-defined, even if there's a ridiculously long ongoing edit war on Wikipedia over what to call it 2013-09-26: 00:01:02 what... else do they want to call it 00:02:10 "manx isle and environs" 00:03:15 Phantom_Hoover: "British and Irish Isles" seems to be a common choice 00:03:21 oh also 00:03:34 'isle' and 'island' bear like no etymological relation 00:04:53 * ais523 hazards a guess that The Question is "What is The Question?" 00:08:07 the question is "what is your mass and approximate coördinates" 00:08:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:10:51 boring 00:10:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:11:38 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:21:54 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:33:37 -!- augur has joined. 00:37:18 `words 00:37:25 new 00:37:32 good word 00:37:36 we should use it 00:37:38 `words 00:37:41 has a certain novelty to it 00:37:42 yesot 00:37:54 `words 20 00:37:58 naautore obeyogan mal jan sun lec mnesay fluvato impil nrneff stach cati bronster hnsta hairfy discherbra reat heaphtali moth mina 00:38:00 HackEgo: don't you mean yesod 00:38:05 oh 00:38:14 is this... meant to be english 00:38:22 obeyogan is what the people in turkey do when they support the government 00:40:18 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:43 bronster (n): Any person who has ever used a portmanteau of "bro" and another word to greet or introduce a friend. 00:46:11 sounds si'nster 00:50:08 `slist sb&hj 44 00:50:09 slist sb&hj 44: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:50:11 45 01:03:45 seen on proggit http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1n260u/brainfuck_in_xslt_because_no_reason/ 01:05:48 Sgeo, man, this is shit 01:05:54 by which i mean not all that shit 01:06:00 by which i mean mediocre 01:08:29 http://quomodocumque.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/sorry-i-already-submitted-to-the-journal-of-surjections/ rad 01:19:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:51 Gregor: hey, you got linked from http://chneukirchen.org/trivium/. 01:25:06 * oerjan notices http://calvinanddune.tumblr.com/ on that page 01:34:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:53:27 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:53:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:23:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:27:01 -!- augur has joined. 02:31:45 http://kozmo.com/ I almost think this is satire 02:37:11 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:05:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:30:44 elliott: Yay me. 03:42:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:42:24 which link? 03:48:32 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:48:47 okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 03:48:50 okokokokokoko 03:49:02 pol. 03:49:12 dude sup 03:49:39 "Phantom_Hoover said 19d 5h 44m 47s ago: say okokoko a bit in #esoteric so we can `addquote it" haha 04:05:41 Does Agora still exist? 04:05:48 Apparently there was a dictatorship scam recently 04:05:55 And the dictator's a fool 04:23:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:29:05 -!- jiji has joined. 04:31:07 -!- jiji has quit (Client Quit). 05:01:35 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:06:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:06:38 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 05:41:16 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:53:52 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 06:00:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:01:27 WHY DID I THINK IT'D BE A GOOD IDEA TO WATCH THE FINALE OF FREE! BEFORE BREAKFAST 06:02:16 good question 06:02:49 For an anime about water, my response was appropriate 06:04:09 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:04:36 There is water pooling on my face 06:22:00 -!- carado has joined. 06:28:34 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:31:52 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:39:50 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:46:06 "FuNeSoMo" is such a silly project name. 06:46:25 Less silly than PubSubHubbub 06:46:29 (It's short for "Future Networks, Society and Modeling". 07:08:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:20:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:45:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:49:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:13:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:42:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:45:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:09:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:12:25 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:26:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:50:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:57:58 Haha! 10:58:00 Hahahahaha! 10:58:08 I've just got rust-mode working on emacs! 10:58:47 very funny indeed 11:08:26 Was that an amused laugh or an evil madman laugh? 11:11:13 I'm leaning towards the latter, fizzie 11:15:57 `olist 921 11:16:01 olist 921: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:25:54 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 11:26:04 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 11:26:04 -!- audioPhil has joined. 11:30:50 -!- boily has joined. 11:31:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:31:57 -!- carado has joined. 11:33:21 -!- metasepia has joined. 11:40:07 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:46:33 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:46:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 11:47:11 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:51:34 -!- Koen__ has joined. 11:51:34 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:13:02 @tell oerjan I understood your reference to curry about 4 hours later after you said it. 12:13:02 Consider it noted. 12:14:59 `quote curry 12:15:01 No output. 12:15:06 @quote curry 12:15:06 kmc says: "Haskell is great, because Curry-Howard! Proving things in the type system. We can prove that, uh, Ints exist, unless they're ⊥." 12:19:53 http://www.technologyreview.com/view/519581/how-google-converted-language-translation-into-a-problem-of-vector-space-mathematics/ 12:21:07 @tell oerjan re your previous @message: ☺ 12:21:07 Consider it noted. 12:37:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:39:10 boily, that is an interesting article 12:45:13 no it isn't 12:45:19 it's profoundly boring 12:46:22 life is boring 12:46:46 you're boring 12:47:17 bah, vector spaces 12:47:26 do you know how hard it was for me not to tell YOU you were boring? :( 12:48:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:51:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Phantom-Hoover. 12:51:17 -!- Phantom-Hoover has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 12:51:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:51:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:51:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 12:51:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:51:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:52:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:52:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:52:53 Taneb: vector spaces... the final translation frontier... 12:52:58 @messages-loud 12:52:58 boily said 39m 56s ago: I understood your reference to curry about 4 hours later after you said it. 12:52:58 boily said 31m 51s ago: re your previous @message: ☺ 12:53:16 boily: JUST AS PLANNED 12:53:26 >_> 12:53:31 ^_^ 12:57:02 -!- augur has joined. 12:57:31 @tell Sgeo Everybody seems to have been convinced that Fool's scam didn't work (ais523 made a massively reasoned judgement). Agora is in a bit of a lull, though, with all important Officers resigned. 12:57:31 Consider it noted. 13:01:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:03:10 "FuNeSoMo" is such a silly project name. <-- it doesn't even seem to mean anything interesting in japanese. ("Also ship its" ?) 13:04:34 I also ship its OTP 13:05:55 there's probably someone somewhere making a business of shipping one time pads. 13:11:12 oerjan: I think Taneb was trope overdosing. 13:11:40 * boily lampshades Taneb 13:11:48 ok but i've forgot what OTP is. 13:12:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:12:31 google provided the one true meaning, though. 13:14:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:15:42 oerjan, you were better off not knowing! 13:16:13 probably, now i'm on tvtropes after all. 13:17:35 -!- yorick has joined. 13:20:19 oerjan: how many open tabs? 13:20:45 well i had 3 tvtropes tabs but now i'm down to one. 13:23:15 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:27:13 now? 13:30:32 erm two. 13:30:56 (one of them is the same, though.) 13:33:46 what is the difference between a duck? 13:34:11 it can neither bike 13:34:20 you're not allowed to say duck boily 13:34:43 DUCKAY. 13:34:57 oh wait sorry, that's an elephant, not a duck. 13:37:23 "Unfortunately, half the time I tell this joke people miss the parody and ask "The difference between a duck and WHAT?" Whenever that happens I cry inside for humanity." 13:38:52 boily: how old do you speak french? 13:40:51 -!- ottianna has joined. 13:41:03 hola 13:41:25 `bienvenido 13:41:28 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 13:41:49 we're getting so efficient. 13:42:10 j 13:42:14 mmmeme 13:44:09 oh no are you spanish 13:45:45 whois looks like venezuela. 13:46:01 jjjjjaj 13:54:07 ottianna: about... 24 years, I guess, give or take a pregnancy. 13:54:23 s/ottianna/oerjan/ 13:54:28 jajjjaja 13:54:36 O_O 13:54:47 ottianna: ¿de qué país viene? 13:55:00 cumana 13:56:18 google translate nails it again. en:cumana becomes fr:cumana. yééééé... 13:56:32 ottianna: parles-tu français? 13:56:39 no 13:56:40 i think it's a city name 13:56:54 oh. right. 13:58:58 ottianna: nuestro traductor español regular es fuera del canal. estoy tratando de convencerlo de que venga aquí. 13:59:33 nose pero si tu lo dices 14:03:55 `ls 14:03:57 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 14:04:05 `ls src 14:04:07 brainfuck.fu \ egobot.tar.xz \ emmental.hs \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ fueue.c \ ul.emm 14:04:12 `? spanish 14:04:14 spanish? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:04:20 a pity 14:04:28 Hey, where's that main-as-a-value program stored? 14:04:28 i swear one of the egos had a translator 14:04:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:05:08 `ls share 14:05:10 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 14:05:23 `cat share/hello.c 14:05:23 `quote hogy 14:05:25 const short main[] = {18517,58761,49201,49801,49407,51081,3816,0,18432,27749,28524,8236,28535,27762,8548,24074,3762,1295,15536,-207,1295}; 14:05:25 33) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 14:05:37 Taneb: ^ 14:05:41 `thanks oerjan 14:05:42 Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan. 14:05:43 `translate from to en es my hovercraft is full of eels 14:05:48 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 5, in \ print eval(sys.argv[1]).encode('utf-8') \ File "", line 1, in \ TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not subscriptable 14:06:02 `translate en es my hovercraft is full of eels 14:06:03 `translatefromto en es hello ottianna how are you 14:06:05 boily: the translate commands bit rotted ages ago. 14:06:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end 14:06:07 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/json", line 4, in \ data = json.loads(sys.stdin.read().decode('utf-8')) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/__init__.py", line 310, in loads \ return _default_decoder.decode(s) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 346, in decode \ obj, end 14:06:14 oerjan: looks like so. 14:06:17 welp 14:06:35 google's api changed, or something. 14:06:40 this seems like the kind of thing that's elliott's fault 14:06:51 oerjan: well, in fact, they obliterated it, iirc. 14:07:04 elliott: hogy hogy hogy. 14:09:33 `cat bin/translatefromto 14:09:34 ​#!/bin/bash \ TEXT="$1" \ FROM=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ TO=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/ .*$//'` \ TEXT=`echo "$TEXT" | sed 's/^[^ ]* //'` \ if [ "$FROM" = "auto" ] ; then FROM="" ; fi \ \ curl -e http://codu.org/ http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/language/translate \ \ --data-urlenco 14:09:50 mandame una mensaje 14:10:32 `run sed -i '1aecho "This google api no longer exists."; exit 1' bin/translatefromto 14:10:36 No output. 14:10:47 `translate oh noes! 14:10:50 This google api no longer exists. 14:11:54 ottianna: solamente si usted participa en la dominación mundial de los lenguajes de programación esotéricos. 14:12:18 claro} 14:13:16 ^ul ((EXTERMINAR! )S:^):^ 14:13:16 EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! EXTERMINAR! ...too much output! 14:14:47 oerjan, who wrote the main-as-a-value program? 14:15:18 Taneb: i don't remember, search the logs? 14:15:47 `share/hello 14:15:49 Hello, world! 14:17:36 -!- conehead has joined. 14:18:33 looks like Jafet http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=hello.c 14:19:21 with some help from fizzie. 14:32:26 -!- ottianna has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:33:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 14:34:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:36:57 xterminate 14:37:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=q.c 14:43:22 -!- ottianna has joined. 14:43:41 hola 14:44:15 pueblos moras 14:44:29 donde es eso 14:45:02 eso est morenas dans le cucaracha 14:45:25 jajajajajajajajajaja 14:45:54 jajajajajajjajajajjajajjajajajajajajjajajjajajajjaajjajaja 14:46:02 huehuehuehuehuehuehuehue 14:46:39 =-O:-*O:-) jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajaajajajajjajaja 14:47:51 Phantom_Hoover: ton francés est doloroso. 14:48:10 no entendo l que dices 14:48:15 ah! me modes dias tom francis, est tortillas grandes 14:48:28 >:o 14:52:36 e trur dokker e speinna gærn 14:52:54 otra vez en inges 14:53:39 ottianna: no es necesario entender lo que se dice aquí. todo puede suceder. tenga cuidado con las personas extrañas. diviértete con el ~duck. 14:53:51 psycho killer, qu'est que c'est? 14:54:09 oerjan: «ous croyons docks e serrage fou»????????? 14:54:12 ya se 14:55:16 boily: that's surprisingly close. 14:55:46 oerjan: j'y pige que dalle. 14:55:48 which does not imply it's close, mind you. 14:56:22 (hm. apparently, «j'y pige que dalle» becomes “I freelance shit”. way to go, google!) 14:56:48 (fyi, that one means “fsck if I understand”.) 14:57:17 OKAY 14:57:29 dale 14:57:49 turns out google is a bit weak on northern norwegian dialects without official spelling norms 14:58:02 ottianna: fr:dalle → es:losa. 14:58:16 jjjajajajajjaj 14:58:21 I thought it was d'alle 14:58:25 nelianny 14:58:42 Koen__: I prefer the flagstone version. 14:59:02 oerjan: by the way, I'm terribly confused by the bokmål/nynorsk issue. 14:59:04 you flagstone shit 14:59:18 admittedly it doesn't understand the normalized "spenna gærne" either. 14:59:58 gtrans suggests “gæren”. 15:00:05 neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet 15:00:29 jjajajja 15:00:36 parcomètre. 15:00:54 boily: "I think you're * crazy" where * ~ spenna and has no proper translation although i guess "fucking" will do. 15:01:17 (also the you is plural.) 15:01:46 aaaah. much clearer, now. «je pense que vous être tous crissement mongols.» 15:01:54 s/être/êtes/ 15:02:06 (not even able to properly conjugate my own verbs. shameful.) 15:04:44 boily: je pense que vous hêtre un arbre, monsieur 15:05:28 boily: well ok so in 1814 when norway got transfered from denmark to sweden in a big post-napoleonic war mess, our official writing language was _danish_. 15:05:29 Koen__: bon point. 15:06:13 oerjan: but you still spoke norwegian, right? 15:06:27 -!- ottianna has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:06:33 oerjan: did _you_ speak danish at the time? 15:06:46 the mess left us with great inne autonomy (and a constitution), which meant despite being unioned with the swedes we could start being a bit openly nationalistic. and then people thought, we shouldn't keep writing danish. 15:06:52 Koen__: no. 15:06:58 *inner 15:08:01 boily: well except for the upper classs in the capital, which were in fact at one earlier point said to have the best danish pronunciation in the kingdom. 15:09:14 which meant that even after a while had gone, the upper class spoke a norwegian language much closer to danish than what the lower and rural classes did. 15:09:28 *had passed 15:10:53 so, when deciding how to turn our writing language from danish to norwegian, there was the question of whether to start from the upper class speech and gradually norwegianize that, or whether to start radically by making up an entirely new writing language from "pure" norwegian as spoken out in the country. 15:11:10 and perversely, we did _both_. 15:11:21 Inner Danish. 15:12:07 bokmål descends from the former, nynorsk from the latter. although both forms have been brought _much_ closer than they originally were back in the late 19th century. 15:12:57 and during the 50's/60's the government tried to push for the final unification by mixing together the least extreme forms on both sides. 15:13:05 ...that backfired horribly. 15:13:23 *1950's/1960's. 15:14:01 I can understand the dichotomy between spoken and written language (French has it), but your case is as you said: perverse. 15:14:19 because although the forms have many commonalities, they have incompatible base _aesthetics_. 15:14:43 and so the mixture was considered by many to be unspeakably ugly. 15:15:55 and so we still have two forms today. although nynorsk has lost a lot of ground, so bokmål is the default in most respects except in a fraction of municipalities. 15:17:00 and what about all these dialects? that's another subject I have a poor grasp on, because, well... Québec French is Québec French wherever you are (with some minor accent variations). 15:18:46 and at the same time from the 70's or so, norwegians developed the unusual habit of insisting on speaking dialect. in fact it started as part of the movement to preserve nynorsk "Speak dialect, write nynorsk!" is the slogan. the latter part did not succeed so much, the former succeeded brilliantly. 15:18:50 -!- audioPhil has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 15:19:11 -!- audioPhil has joined. 15:19:23 oerjan: so you speak a northern dialect, and write bokmål, if I'm not mistaken? 15:19:29 yes. 15:20:06 and you understand and can communicate with other norwegians? (not necessarily by morse) 15:20:15 i recall recently someone pointed out even our crown princess speaks dialect :P 15:21:11 (the crown prince grew up in upper class oslo, which is the least dialecty part of the country.) 15:21:52 boily: yes. 15:22:29 there are some dialects that are harder to understand, but they're not so often met around here. 15:22:31 "The average English speaker is fluent in their language at the age of 12, in contrast, the average Polish speaker is fluent in their language after age of 16." 15:24:59 boily: btw you might ask, back in the 19th century, why anyone even _cared_ about non-upper class language. this might be connected with an unusual feature of the norwegian constitution of 1814: it gave the vote to farmers. 15:25:31 which i think was immensely radical at the time. 15:25:53 (it did _not_ give the vote to city laborers.) 15:26:51 also, there may have been a distinction between farmers owning their own land and farmers renting, and only the former got to vote. i vaguely think. but still, it meant in norway, the countryside could not be ignored. 15:27:18 "File:Om nom nom (4001714942).jpg" Wikimedia Commons has them bestly named files. 15:27:58 "I believe most people would consider literacy as a critical component of modern language. Primary evidence is the article itself, which is written, not spoken. " god i love this comment 15:30:24 boily: btw there are not as big dialectal variations in norway today as there used to be back when every valley was basically isolated. the dialects seem to be consolidating in each region. 15:30:50 (that valley isolation part may explain why we had so many to start with.) 15:31:08 let me guess. Norway is like Switzerland, but longer. 15:31:29 fizzie: what is it a file of? 15:32:23 -!- asie has joined. 15:32:33 oerjan, that sounds roughly like English but I think we started a lot earlier? 15:32:54 boily: pretty much. although there's also the fjords, which meant that at one time it was easier to travel by boat than by land, many places. 15:33:54 oerjan: we have at least one fjord here! :D 15:33:59 Taneb: i suppose quebec might not have so many dialects because the french-speakers got there only a few centuries ago? 15:34:15 also boily 15:34:27 Québec City was settled in 1608, so yeah, very much not long ago. 15:34:35 oerjan, I don't know, the US has a lot of accents 15:34:41 Then again it's a lot more spread out 15:34:43 the US is _huge_. 15:34:52 Taneb: there are ten times as many Americans vs. Canadians. 15:34:56 Truuuue 15:35:29 Well, 100 years ago around here you could tell what village someone came from from his accent 15:36:40 -!- mnoqy has joined. 15:36:53 on a not quite related note, what is the name of that thing where you can spot in which language something is written by its characteristics, like «ő» means Hungarian, but you don't speak the language itself? 15:37:31 no idea. 15:39:35 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 15:44:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:49:08 boily: pattern recognition? :) 15:50:49 Koen__: yes, but from the human side. like, simple heuristics, where the error rate doesn't need to tend towards zero. 15:51:29 not the Ultra Pattern Recognition with Sliced Pineapple and a Small Umbrella Version. 15:54:07 hm. apparently it's called “language identification”. makes sense. 15:54:30 -!- ais523_ has joined. 15:55:10 -!- oerjan has set topic: Ultra Pattern Recognition with Sliced Pineapple and a Small Umbrella Version | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 15:56:12 hmm, boily is almost the entire topic now 16:01:46 -!- heroux has joined. 16:02:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: Ultra Pattern Recognition with Sliced Pineapple and a Small Umbrella Version | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | the boily at the end of all things. 16:02:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:09:31 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:10:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:18 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:13:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:18:38 -!- asie has joined. 16:31:24 -!- ais523_ has quit. 16:32:20 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:47:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:49:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:51:38 Man, hard disks are so hard to open. 16:52:01 (I'm throwing away some broken ones, and wanted to maybe make data restoration slightly more difficult.) 16:52:21 hard disk magnets are dangerous to my physical integrity. 16:52:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Client Quit). 16:53:47 I can't even get this controller board off, because two of the six (Torx) screws went all mushy. (I think my Torx head might be one size too small.) 16:54:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:55:12 I have a T10 and a T15 and the T15 doesn't fit, while the T10 just turns around. 16:55:16 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:56:26 fizzie: But will it blend? 16:57:38 I don't really have a blender. 16:58:24 -!- augur has joined. 16:59:13 fizzie: do you have a lawnmower? 17:00:21 I don't have one of those either. 17:03:38 fizzie: can you do penspinning with a kitchen knife? 17:06:50 I wonder how long you'd have to boil a hard disk before you would manage to reduce it to a rich broth. 17:10:23 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:11:01 http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Images/meat-tenderizer.jpg 17:16:54 Hard disk tenderizer 17:20:36 boily, when i was your age a meat tenderiser was just a big mallet 17:23:41 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not *that* young. 17:25:20 When I was your age "Meat Tenderizer" was my gay porn name. 17:26:28 TIL that Patrick Swayze died four years ago. 17:26:44 -!- asie has joined. 17:28:36 Yeah, I seem to recall hearing that. 17:28:38 Four years ago. 17:28:51 i only knew after community made a joke about it 17:29:54 random generelectronic question: can I buy an e-ink display that interfaces just like common LCDs? 17:33:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:37:28 deterministic prelectronicise answer: http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/small-epaper-shield-p-1597.html 17:38:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:40:20 -!- conehead has joined. 17:49:12 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:54:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:56 has anyone heard news of the When reference implementation? 18:00:18 other than "You will 'soon' be able to lay your grubby little hands on it." in 2001 18:14:11 Grin seems to be the only esolang that has a builtin “arccos” function. 18:17:51 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:19:41 boily: How about Tiny? 18:20:00 boily: Or Qwerty Reverse Polish Notation? 18:20:09 boily: Or Stlang? 18:20:19 boily: Or KimL? 18:20:34 boily: Or Gammaplex? 18:20:57 fizzie: I wasn't up to there, skipped Gammaplex, and I said “seems”. 18:21:00 how about IRP 18:21:08 IRP is a myth. 18:21:16 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 18:21:21 Admittedly all those call it "acos". 18:21:31 burlesque has it i think 18:21:45 ok. for a very, very week value of “seems”. 18:22:01 probably because I'm browsing the hello-world-in-esolangs page. 18:22:44 Burlesque is a Stlang derivative, so it makes sense it'd have it too. 18:23:07 speaking of burlesque, where has mroman disappeared? 18:23:22 That's something people do, disappear. 18:23:39 he's still in #anagol! 18:24:58 the Temptation of Succumbing to the ~Duck is strong, but I will heed the Phantom and not do that. 18:25:08 ~yi 18:25:08 Your divination: "Swallowing" to "Shake" 18:38:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:48:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:50:05 when trying to cram an acronym into a common word doesn't quite work out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOCK 18:50:38 i don't know why they can't just call it "clock" 18:50:44 i was expecting the 'L' to be the contrived part 18:51:09 same. 18:51:11 "In humans, a polymorphism in Clock, rs6832769, may be related to the personality trait agreeableness" amazing 18:51:31 kmc: so you expected the COCK to be okay 18:51:35 anyone know a quick way to cut a video in half, like get the first thirty seconds of a sixty second video? in mp4. 18:54:06 University of Tromsø is the world's northernmost university. 18:55:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:56:00 Bike: ffmpeg -i video.mp4 -vcodec copy -acodec copy -ss 00:00:00 -t 00:00:30 trimmed_video.mp4 18:56:21 oh wait you need exactly half of it, always? 18:56:27 no,that works, thanks. 19:15:38 -!- ottianna has joined. 19:16:03 HLA Q CESHA 19:18:49 XOR EAX, EAX 19:19:17 hi 19:19:57 a prof of mine said, xor eax, eax isn't faster than mov eax, 0 anymore (iff the cpu has a special zero register) 19:20:02 -!- augur has joined. 19:20:46 myname: maybe, but I think xor eax, eax has entered Idiomatic Legendary Status. 19:21:26 boily: well, it may be, but moving between registers can be made in "0 cycles" 19:23:03 hmm... there should be a special opcode that covers the whole xor instruction (with registers and all), that translates to the mov version. 19:23:27 so that way, you could xor things with themselves, have performance, and be happy with it. 19:23:59 yeah, it's not unlikely that this is done 19:24:27 but in this case xor is not faster than mov, it is equally fast at best 19:25:11 i'm more confused about "loop" considered slow 19:25:34 well. loop incurs branches, therefore branch prediction, therefore hair loss. 19:25:40 i.e. slower than dec rcx & cmp rcx, 0 & jne 19:26:16 well, if you make the jump without loop, you still need branch prediction 19:26:27 "xor eax, eax" is denser, though. 19:26:47 if i'd build a processor, i'd make loop as always taken 19:27:59 if I'd build a processor, I'd have an MP3 opcode. 19:28:24 you could even make some magic like "if rcx is 1 set the prediction to not taken instead" to make literally 0 flushes in a loop 19:28:37 why that? 19:28:39 "Dependency Breaking Idioms -- Instruction parallelism can be improved by using common instructions to clear register contents to zero. The renamer can detect them on the zero evaluation of the destination register. -- Use one of these dependency breaking idioms to clear a register when possible. -- XOR REG, REG -- Since zero idioms are detected and removed by the renamer, they have no ... 19:28:45 ... execution latency." 19:29:10 (Goes a reasonable recent version of the Intel Optimization Manual on the topic of clearing a register.) 19:29:39 myname: because I'd like to. something that really, really shouldn't get reduced to an opcode. 19:33:27 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:35:23 As for LOOP, "Assembly/Compiler Coding Rule 31. (M impact, M generality) Avoid using complex instructions (for example, ENTER, LEAVE or LOOP) that have more than four µops and require multiple cycles to decode. Use sequences of simple instructions instead. -- Complex instructions may save architectural registers, but incur a penalty of 4 µops to set up parameters for the microsequencer ROM ... 19:35:29 ... in Intel NetBurst microachitecture." 19:35:58 Also something something about Core microarchitecture and 4-1-1-1 templates and diminishing returns. 19:36:19 if I remember right microcodey things can often use like 8-10+ clocks 19:36:40 "(micro-ops which are executed out of the microsequencer involve extra overhead). 19:36:43 " 19:36:57 if you use LOOP often enough they'll optimize it to be the fastest alternative 19:37:16 this says LOOP is 5 cycles (7 uops) on haswell, LOOP(N)E is 6 cycles (11 uops)? 19:37:23 You have to use it quite a lot to offset what all the mainstream compilers are doing. 19:37:37 -!- ottianna has left. 19:38:36 Wonder if GCC "-Os" can be coaxed to LOOP, though. 19:38:46 lesson of the day: don't use loops. at all. in fact, write you programs with no branches whatsoever. 19:41:37 boily: indeed 19:42:01 boily: also, don't make any data that depends on each other to avoid data hazards 19:42:02 boily: The Optimization Manual, IIRC, sort of recommends against that. 19:42:25 fizzie: having an MP3 opcode, or writing without branches? 19:42:30 Writing without branches. 19:42:58 AArch64 (the 64-bit ARM arch) removed most of the predicated execution because "our branch predictor is so good, they're not that useful any more". 19:43:04 (Paraphrasing there.) 19:43:11 fizzie: as in predicated instructions? of course 19:43:29 interesting 19:44:28 "Benchmarking shows that modern branch predictors work well enough that predicated execution of instructions does not offer sufficient benefit to justify its significant use of opcode space, and its implementation cost in advanced implementations." 19:44:32 (Without paraphrasing.) 19:45:29 -!- jix has joined. 19:45:42 One assumes perhaps the "significant use of opcode space" was more of an issue because they needed to fit more register bits in there. (AArch64 also doubled the number of registers.) 19:46:09 did they keep predication for a few common cases ? 19:46:15 I heard they did something like that 19:46:21 Yes, they did that. 19:46:30 (like I guess "conditional add" is way nicer than "conditional leading zero count") 19:46:35 um, do you know which ones? 19:46:54 Fiora: "Only conditional branches, and a handful of data processing instructions read the condition flags." 19:47:04 I guess that's not much of an answer. 19:47:08 yeah, I guess not^^; 19:47:19 `relcome jix 19:47:23 ​jix: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:47:36 oh it's sad that they removed predicated instructions from ARM 19:47:41 although that was mostly the case already with Thumb 19:47:43 kmc: they did? 19:47:46 see above 19:47:59 Thumb2 has the weird if-then-else instructions 19:48:06 kmc: They didn't include IT either. 19:48:10 does Leg have those? 19:48:10 aw damn 19:48:19 (I'm going to call it Leg instead of AArch64 if that's OK with everyone) 19:48:41 Fiora: Oh, the document I was quoting (pasted from irclogs) has more detail. Just a moment. 19:48:43 so does that mean that switching to x86 is giving up an arm and a leg? 19:48:47 :P 19:49:21 Fiora: "The conditional instruction types are: Conditional branch -- Add/subtract with carry -- Conditional select with increment, negate or invert -- Conditional compare" 19:49:35 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:49:37 I guess that covers a lot of it 19:49:50 almost eeeverything I've ever felt like I wanted conditionals for were conditional move/add/subtract 19:50:39 "Conditional select with X" means you can select between two source registers based on the condition flag, and the other source can optionally be unmodified/negated/incremented/inverted. 19:50:48 So it's kind of like a three-argument CMOV on steroids. 19:50:53 ooooh, that's cool. 19:51:17 gosh, that kind of "source can be optionally {long list of things}" reminds me of vpperm 19:51:33 -!- myname has joined. 19:52:06 And "conditional compare" means it does a comparison if the specified condition is true, otherwise sets it to an immediate value, and the idea is to flatten nested conditionals without needing to do conditional branches or arithmetic with boolean values. 19:52:39 so like.... if( x > y ) x = 1? 19:52:47 sets what? the flag? 19:53:16 kmc: Yes, the flag that would otherwise be set as per the result of the comparison. 19:53:28 ok 19:53:31 ohhhhh. 19:53:44 so it's a compare that only saves its results if a condition is true? 19:53:53 so like if( cond ) { condition flag = {cond2} } 19:54:05 Fiora: Yes. (Well, it also does not do the comparison, but I'm not sure how you'd observe that.) 19:54:28 I guess that makes sense with big complicated if statements and stuff. 19:55:06 Fiora: And now that I read this more closely, it seems as if "add/subtract with carry" meant just that; it's not a specifically conditional add/subtract, but instead it was listed as a "conditional instruction type" because it uses a condition (the carry flag) as an input. 19:55:14 ohhhhh :< 19:55:37 Fiora: wow this VPPERM instruction is pretty fancy 19:55:43 kmc: it's fun!! 19:58:49 Fiora: As a minor additional note, the "conditional select" group includes also "conditional set", the x86 "SETcc" thing. (Except there's one variant to select between 0/1, and another to select between 0/-1, which I suppose could be nice for doing some conditional masks. Although maybe you don't need to do that many masks with the conditional select from two regs.) 19:59:17 ooooh. that's kinda nice. especially since I'm guessing it won't be like setcc and only work on 8-bit registers -_- 19:59:55 Right, it's full registers. 20:00:21 a chess programming wiki, that dabbles in assembly instructions. what has the world come to → http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/XOP#VPPERM 20:00:31 yeah i saw that -- pretty awesome 20:00:41 chess programming stuff has loots of assembly and microoptimization things 20:00:44 it's kinda cool really :o 20:00:45 Hmm, there's conditional increment/invert/negate... oh, of course, those are just special cases of "conditional select and X" with the both source registers the same. 20:00:46 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:02:20 fizzie: but it's only chess! why does it need that much microfiddling? 20:02:38 (it's still kinda cool. completely unobvious.) 20:02:47 um, well, like, you need to find fast ways to perform common operations like 20:02:49 boily: Another fi. 20:02:56 how do you represent a board, or like, how do you calculate which squares can be attacked 20:03:16 since you need to generate moves fast (at any given node in your minimax tree) and have a heuristic that's evaluated fast 20:04:05 fizzie: autocompletion once again fail me. 20:07:21 have you ever tried minmaxing anything? looking a dozen moves ahead in tic tac toe is hard, let alone chess 20:08:25 Bike: we did some minmaxing back in some random university class. it didn't work. 20:09:17 if I recall correctly a lot of the top chess programs do like. 5 million nodes per second or more 20:09:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:10:04 ~it's exponential~ 20:10:04 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 20:10:10 yo shut up 20:10:19 bleh. 20:10:49 So it stands to reason that you want to reduce the coefficient of those exponents as much as possible. Right? Right. 20:11:41 Bike: reducing dimensions is usually the first step → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_dimensionality 20:12:03 well yeah, you wanna prune the tree too. 20:12:38 the soonest you remove things, the soonest you can arrive at the wrong answer. 20:13:04 (then prune the wrong answer off, and start again until the only thing left is the right answer.) 20:15:42 98% of the participants of the "Introduction to AI" course I helped with minmaxed during the course programmng project. 20:16:57 Generally up to something like 4-6 ply. 20:17:15 what game / problem? 20:18:08 It was a game that really was only used on the course -- http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~svirpioj/hierarkia/rules_en.html 20:18:39 Branching factor generally about 1.5-2x that of chess, from what I recall. 20:18:48 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:20:17 Alpha-beta pruning (which maybe 80-90% did) with perfect move ordering in theory lets you look twice as far. 20:21:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:22:53 Bike: I remember reading that they found that (up to a point) shorter, more exhaustive searches tended to be better than deeper, less branchy ones (for chess at least) 20:23:11 though that's with stuff like quiesence searches and check extensions 20:23:37 I seem to recall one submission where a last-minute change flipped the sign in an otherwise well-working minmax-with-alpha-beta search system, so that the AI in question made a pretty good effort to lose every game it played. 20:23:45 mmhm yes *examines words while holding chin in thoughtful gesture* 20:24:12 * boily examines fizzie while holding Bike's chin in thoughtful gesture 20:24:50 boily: You made that sound like an adventure game action. 20:25:30 sounds like a pretyt in-depth game if it understands all that. 20:28:01 Maybe just the first part. 20:28:02 ESOTER: Explore the dungeons of #esoteric! Battle the Dragon of Diæresis! Grab wonderous loot, and examine Finns! 20:36:26 where did you even get the diaeresis thing from boily 20:37:10 no idea. 20:47:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:47:32 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:50:48 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zzo38 20:52:19 tsk tsk, totally incccurate sample 20:53:40 -!- yorick has joined. 20:55:40 i can't believe zzo was on SA 20:59:57 SA? 21:00:06 zzo was on South America!? 21:00:25 taneb 21:00:48 phantom_hoover 21:00:57 Phantom_Tooter. 21:00:59 i'm tired and confused and don't know what is going on 21:01:07 you killed the moment fizzie 21:01:42 fungot: The curiosity killed the bot. 21:01:43 fizzie: i'm fnord back at the end of the sequence, then they're the same 21:09:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:10:04 http://nautil.us/issue/5/fame/the-twin-prime-hero it makes me unreasonably angry that they are still pulling this shit 21:10:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:10:38 http://sprunge.us/KbZZ <- that's not good at all. 21:14:53 Opening the offending file in evince and printing it to a PDF file made it work. Computers! 21:18:00 reminds me of some online checkin that produced PDFs that was only readable on one computer and that was not the computer that was connected to any printer 21:18:51 ended up mailing each boarding card to the one who could read them, convert them to pdf, mail them again to the guy who could print 21:19:18 Oh, boarding passes, that's also always a fun. 21:19:26 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:19:45 I think I once printed one at a hotel where the computer connected to their printer had no PDF viewer I could find. 21:20:05 Ended up opening it on the laptop and print-to-fileing to that one Microsoft things, whatsitcalled. 21:20:16 WMF? 21:20:26 No, the more PDF-alike. 21:20:27 XPS? 21:20:45 Yes, XPS. 21:21:04 `? XPS 21:21:05 There's a "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" by default. 21:21:06 XPS? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:21:23 "The XPS Document Writer allows you to create .xps files using any program that you run on Windows. XPS documents look the same in print as they do on the screen. They are portable, like any other file that you can e–mail or transfer using a CD, DVD, universal serial bus (USB) drive, or network connection. They are also easy to share because you can view them on any computer where an XPS ... 21:21:29 ... viewer is installed, even if the computer does not have the same programs that you used to create the original documents." 21:21:36 Sounds quite a bit like PDF, doesn't it? 21:22:28 It's an ECMA standard and all. 21:23:09 bye 21:23:13 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 21:23:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:27:26 Phantom_Hoover: pulling what? 21:30:30 reporting everything that happens in maths as the result of a lone genius 21:31:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:34:09 it basically was in this case to start with, wasn't it? 21:37:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:52:22 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:52:43 -!- augur has joined. 21:56:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:01:37 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:12:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:21:47 XOR EAX, EAX 22:22:13 INC EAX 22:22:21 i should tell zzo38 of my new invented spell to annihilate frogs. 22:22:44 For some reason, in ARM ASM, xor is eor 22:22:56 you simply intone the magical words BREKEKEKEX XOR EAX, EAX 22:24:39 I don't think that annihilates frogs 22:24:42 :D 22:24:55 FreeFull: Winnie the Pooh fans I assume 22:26:38 ? 22:27:52 Eeyore! Eeyore! Cthulhu Fhtagn! 22:28:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:29:40 oh that exists http://miscellany.lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/swanson-eeyore.jpg 22:30:21 :) 22:31:19 my brekekekex xor eax, eax was not googleable, alas 22:31:57 i suppose aristophanes hasn't truly permeated geek culture yet. 22:32:03 unlike greek culture. 22:32:31 I got the joke! 22:32:37 yay! 22:32:38 via Major-General's Song naturally. 22:32:45 oh. 22:33:01 oh, there was a joke? 22:33:56 there's always a joke, olsner 22:34:45 ok 22:35:28 When you don't see the joke, you are the joke 22:37:08 :< 22:41:13 arisophanes is on my reading list but keeps going down 22:42:31 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:43:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:55:25 `ord Diæresis 22:55:27 68 105 230 114 101 115 105 115 22:55:38 hm nothing funny going on there 22:56:30 `ord ꙮ 22:56:31 42606 22:59:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:00:50 `ord \0 23:00:52 No output. 23:01:10 `ord \n 23:01:11 No output. 23:01:21 Something funny going on there 23:01:30 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:06:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:08:52 `cat bin/ord 23:08:54 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { ord } split //, $_);' 23:09:46 `run sed -i 's/sh/bash/' bin/ord 23:09:51 No output. 23:09:55 `ord \0 23:09:57 92 48 23:10:28 `run sh -c 'echo \n' 23:10:29 n 23:10:33 `run bash -c 'echo \n' 23:10:34 n 23:10:44 should i even ask 23:11:02 i vaguely recall it depends on whether it has terminal 23:11:08 or wait 23:11:12 so that's a no 23:11:36 anyway, /bin/sh behaves in weird ways. 23:12:55 Bike: Give echo the -e flag 23:13:02 `run bash -c 'echo -e \n' 23:13:04 n 23:13:14 Huh 23:13:17 `run bash -c 'echo -e "\n"' 23:13:21 No output. 23:13:26 There 23:13:38 `run sh -c 'echo -e "\n"' 23:13:40 ​-e 23:13:45 Oh. Good. 23:17:55 `run ls -l `which sh` `which bash` 23:17:57 ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 926536 Apr 10 2010 /bin/bash \ lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Oct 14 2011 /bin/sh -> dash 23:18:06 dash? 23:18:08 oh well. 23:24:58 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:26:02 -!- Koen__ has joined. 23:26:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:29:15 Koen__: is the account koen_ yours? it hasn't been used in a while. 23:29:37 (not the same as koen) 23:29:50 my irc client thinks it's fun to join a server, disconnect, then join again when I open it 23:30:09 maybe I should have Koen__ as my second choice and Koen_ as my third 23:30:22 -!- Koen__ has quit (Client Quit). 23:30:24 fancy 23:30:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:30:47 better? 23:30:57 ALSO YOU ARE EVADING THE QUESTION 23:31:07 also it doesn't allow to change nicks without logging out, as far as I know 23:31:25 but yeah I think it's mine 23:31:43 you might want to log in before it expires 23:32:05 hrm, not the usual password 23:32:30 well 23:32:38 I DON'T KNOW THE PASSWORD OKAY 23:32:45 figures 23:33:32 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:33:42 anyhow 23:33:48 -!- Bike has joined. 23:33:57 I was trying to sleep but apparently I need to write an interpreter for When before I can 23:36:50 Koen_: i think you can probably get the account dropped and then reregister it, it's even the "2 weeks expiry if not used more than 2 hours after registration" clause. 23:36:57 *even under 23:37:27 I'm sure I have used it less that 2 hours after registration 23:37:41 yes that's what i said. 23:38:02 and it would be expired anyhow under the 10 week clause. 23:38:18 it's definitely been more than ten weeks since I used it 23:38:22 (i recall it used to be 60 weeks?) 23:38:36 does that mean I'm not the one using it? 23:38:43 ...why are you agreeing with me? i already checked with NickServ. 23:38:52 oh 23:39:10 I wasn't agreeing with you I just had trouble understanding what you said 23:39:22 i'm saying it _has_ expired, so you can get it dropped, thus reregister it with a password you know. 23:39:28 ohhhhhh okay 23:39:58 if I do that I'll never know what the password was, though 23:40:14 and this is a problem how? :P 23:40:34 I'll just put it on the "I'll do it tomorrow" list 23:40:42 good, good. 23:40:44 it's a First-in Never-out data structure 23:41:11 ah one of those. is it stored in one of those write-only memories? 23:41:17 holy shit it's friday 23:41:28 -!- augur has joined. 23:41:28 definitely 23:41:36 it's still thursday here Phantom_Hoover 23:41:44 25h41 23:41:50 Random Standard Time! 23:42:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:42:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:44:14 best timezone 23:45:55 yep 23:48:02 oerjan: it's funny you should say that, cause I'm starting to think that When's strings *are* write-only 23:48:35 as in, there's a concatenation operator, but no substring or array subscript operator 23:56:36 the when specification doesn't actually specify the operators? 23:58:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2013-09-27: 00:00:43 so there might well be more operators than those in the examples. otherwise the claim that strings make When TC seems unreasonable. 00:04:04 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:04:52 yeah, but the When specifications states that the operators should be fairly straightforward for anyone who's programmed in C-like languages 00:05:06 and it also says that the only types are integers, strings, and null 00:05:11 so no characters 00:05:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:05:44 i wonder if there are any timezones in UTC+13 00:05:44 the only thing I could imagine would be a [] operator that would return a 1-char long string 00:07:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B13:00 00:07:57 goes to 14, too 00:08:11 Bombay time was UTC+04:51 00:08:47 i heard a rumor once of a "Riyadh Mean Solar Time" which was adjusted every day so that the sun was absolutely overhead at noon 00:09:04 I think it's one of the few timezones that the Olson timezone database doesn't support :D 00:09:26 what would riyadh need that for 00:09:31 beats me 00:10:02 Phantom_Hoover: did you know that random little bits of America opt out of daylight savings time 00:10:06 isn't federalism great 00:10:11 http://lists.globus.org/pipermail/gt-dev/2006-October/000844.html is the only thing google finds 00:10:23 heh 00:10:37 indiana. 00:11:34 yeah Indiana alone has 11 tz database entries 00:11:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%E2%88%9200:25#Dublin_Mean_Time 00:11:52 DMT 00:12:08 i know a programmer who lives in indiana and works with time sometimes. i've considered mailing him some of my antiepressants 00:12:16 used in Lireland Standard Dates 00:12:16 :D 00:12:59 The most extensive study of time zone history in Indiana has been published in The American Atlas (1978) by Thomas G. Shanks, where the author identifies 345 areas in the state with a different time zone history for each. 00:13:19 it must be cool to be definitively the world expert at that 00:13:57 and Arizona also ignores DST, except for some but not all of the Native American territories which are kind-of-part-of the state 00:14:03 that's the book that tzdata is based on or something, I think 00:14:11 gosh, googling "history of time in saudi arabia" comes up with "history of the jews in saudi arabia". who cares about that 00:14:22 "they all lived together happily ever after the end" 00:14:22 history of time 00:14:30 http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html 00:14:34 "The Long, Painful History of Time" 00:14:56 Koen_: well in C char is an integer type, maybe When works like that too. 00:15:04 oh 00:15:06 nice 00:15:29 you could do 'a' * 'b' in Rust until a few weeks ago 00:15:30 okay I'll add a [ ] operator then 00:16:39 what would riyadh need that for <-- the islamic calendar is afaiu based on direct astronomical observation rather than math, and the saudis are pretty big on islam. 00:17:22 yes well the jewish calendar is lunar and i've never heard of jerusalem switching to lunar months 00:18:43 oerjan: hmm but in C, str[k] is a variable (an lvalue? am I using this term correctly?), it can be assigned 00:19:22 it's an lvalue yeah 00:19:26 that gives it a different feel from the rest of When, in my opinion 00:19:53 I mean, it obviously has no rules attached as do other variables 00:20:49 "Saudi Arabia uses the sighting method to determine the beginning of each month of the Hijri calendar. Since AH 1419 (1998/99) several official hilal sighting committees have been set up by the government to determine the first visual sighting of the lunar crescent at the beginning of each lunar month." 00:20:53 so that would either mean that the assignment operator doesn't trigger any rules when assigning to str[k], or that it triggers str's rules, even though it's not directly str which is assigned 00:21:07 it's amazing how incredibly boring theology is most of the time 00:22:46 they could get creative and come up with a Praying@Home distributed theology 00:23:32 islam has a long history of arguing over whether different kinds of theological arguments are worthwhile 00:23:57 metametaphysics 00:26:14 that's called 'pataphysics 00:26:42 i build a 'patatree in minecraft once 00:26:48 as a successor to the earlier metatree 00:28:38 hey any idea what "right-to-left" associativity means for UNARY operators? 00:29:04 or left-to-right for that matter - I just don't see what sense to make out of unary associativity 00:29:59 obviously !!x can only be interpreted as !(!x), right? 00:30:51 associativity is a property of binary operators. 00:31:28 unless you've got some unary operator that can be indifferently postfix and infix, so !x! can be either of (!x)! and !(x!); but C precedence tables already list "postfix ++" and "infix ++" as two different operators with different priorities anyway 00:32:14 Bike, well, n-ary where n > 1 00:32:22 your mother 00:32:48 i contend that it is your mother 00:32:56 what the heck is associativity for a 3-ary function 00:33:11 I think they talk about "pseudo-associativity rule" for heaps, or something 00:33:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heap_%28mathematics%29 00:33:39 para-associative law 00:33:59 Bike, cf. http://i.imgur.com/1zgFd.jpg 00:34:01 foo(foo(a,b,c),d,e) = foo(a,foo(b,c,d),e)? 00:34:12 something like that 00:34:25 php doesn't exist, sorry 00:35:15 well the point here is that it uses the wrong associativity for ternary if 00:37:03 isn't it just that it parses a?b:c?d:e as ?:(?:(a,b,c),d,e) 00:37:47 who parses it like that 00:37:47 that's associativity, though 00:37:49 instead of ?:(a,b,?:(c,d,e)). 00:37:54 is it? i don't know that's why i'm asking 00:37:57 a + b + c being +(a,+(b,c)) or +(+(a,b),c) 00:38:13 nah that's math-associativity 00:38:15 "how you put the parens in to combinations of operators" 00:39:13 my definition for an operator to be math-associative is "you don't need a computer-associativity rule about it" 00:39:20 so, if ?: was associative, ?:(?:(a,b,c),d,e) = ?:(a,?:(b,c,d),e) = ?:(a,b,?:(c,d,e)). 00:39:23 that would be weird. 00:40:51 (i'm wondering about math associativity because i don't care about parsing) 00:41:31 oh. 00:41:37 but Koen_ was talking about "right-to-left" associativity. 00:41:46 so the topic changed completely somewhere here 00:42:05 well I was reading wikipedia's C operators precedence table 00:42:17 and one of the boxes happens to have only unary operators 00:42:37 and they are specified to be right-to-left associative 00:42:45 (i'm wondering about math associativity because i don't care about parsing) 00:42:52 Hello 00:43:10 it's maths, you can't unambiguously generalise 00:43:33 then why did you say "n-ary where n > 1" 00:43:41 because i was talking about parsing 00:43:45 oh. 00:43:50 boringgggg 00:44:34 Bike: apparently e = a < d ? a++ : a = d is parsed differently in C and C++ 00:47:45 Koen_: floating point + isn't math-associative 00:47:56 oh 00:48:01 that's fun 00:48:56 is there any language where + isn't commutative because you can add anything with anything but the return type depends of the order of the arguments? 00:49:09 somebody else today was confused and annoyed by generating the sequence "1.2, 1.4, 1.6000001, 1.800001" or something. it gets so old 00:49:18 Koen_: any language where + works on strings 00:49:37 well, no, that's just noncommutativity, not what you said. sorry 00:50:21 > [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:50:22 [1.2,1.4,1.5999999,1.7999998,1.9999998,2.1999998,2.3999999,2.6,2.8,3.0,3.2,... 00:51:44 lambdabot: nice recovery there 00:52:22 > drop 7 [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:52:23 [2.6,2.8,3.0,3.2,3.4,3.6000001,3.8000002,4.0,4.2,4.3999996,4.5999994,4.7999... 00:52:45 > drop 17 [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:52:46 [4.5999994,4.799999,4.999999,5.199999,5.3999987,5.5999985,5.7999983,5.99999... 00:53:24 > drop 24 [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:53:24 [5.999998,6.199998,6.3999977,6.5999975,6.7999973,6.999997,7.199997,7.399996... 00:53:25 > drop 2439 [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:53:26 [488.97592,489.1759,489.3759,489.57587,489.77585,489.97583,490.1758,490.375... 00:53:46 suh weet 00:54:00 > drop 50000 [0, 0.001 :: Float ..] 00:54:01 [49.974503,49.975502,49.9765,49.9775,49.9785,49.9795,49.9805,49.9815,49.982... 00:54:09 > drop 50000000 [0, 0.001 :: Float ..] 00:54:13 [16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16... 00:54:23 "well, that's a good place to stop" 00:54:28 xD 00:54:30 16384 certainly is a number. 00:54:35 > drop 50000000 [0, 0.001 :: Double ..] 00:54:38 [49999.99988652039,50000.000886520385,50000.00188652038,50000.00288652038,5... 00:55:17 > filter (\x -> 2 >= length (break (=='.') (show x)) ) [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:55:18 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 00:55:18 with actual type `([GHC.Ty... 00:55:21 oops 00:55:27 i was about to ask how to do that. 00:55:31 thank god for nerds 00:55:51 > filter (\x -> 2 >= length (dropWhile (/='.') (show x)) ) [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:55:52 [1.2,1.4,2.6,2.8,3.0,3.2,3.4,4.0,4.2,18.8,19.0,19.2,74.8,75.0,75.2,940.6,94... 00:55:57 :t zipWith 00:55:57 (a -> b -> c) -> [a] -> [b] -> [c] 00:56:11 night 00:56:12 yeah, whatever, don't remember enough stdlib 00:56:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:56:30 > drop 10 $ filter (\x -> 2 >= length (dropWhile (/='.') (show x)) ) [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:56:31 [19.0,19.2,74.8,75.0,75.2,940.6,940.8,941.0,941.2,941.4,1283.1,1283.3,1556.... 00:56:52 > drop 20 $ filter (\x -> 2 >= length (dropWhile (/='.') (show x)) ) [1.2, 1.4 :: Float ..] 00:56:53 [1283.1,1283.3,1556.2,1556.4,1829.5,2068.4,2068.6,2170.9,2171.1,2273.4,2273... 00:57:05 looks like it keeps happening 00:57:27 I warned you about floating point, oerjan. 00:57:36 hi shut up elliott 00:57:45 he warned you bro. 00:57:55 :t (!!) 00:57:56 [a] -> Int -> a 00:58:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v elliott. 00:58:04 @hoogle a -> [a] -> Int 00:58:04 Data.List elemIndex :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> Maybe Int 00:58:04 Data.List elemIndices :: Eq a => a -> [a] -> [Int] 00:58:04 Network.BufferType buf_concat :: BufferOp a -> [a] -> a 00:58:10 why thank you, oerjan. I'm glad you appreciate my jokes so much. 00:58:15 way to do the exact opposite of shutting up! 00:58:15 I think "it keeps happening" is an appropriate response to the one where it keeps giving the same number xD 00:58:32 > 2^14 00:58:33 16384 00:58:38 elliot: is that a sweet bro and hella jeff reference? 00:58:38 > 4 == 4 00:58:39 True 00:59:56 > True == True 00:59:57 True 01:00:07 now elliott is impersonating me with his op powers? outrageous! 01:00:58 > let list = [0, 0.001 :: Double..] in elemIndex True (zipWith (==) list ((\(a:b) -> b) list)) -- i'm the haskellest 01:00:59 :1:25: parse error on input `Double..' 01:01:07 > let list = [0, 0.001 :: Double ..] in elemIndex True (zipWith (==) list ((\(a:b) -> b) list)) 01:01:15 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 01:01:33 > let list = [0, 0.001 :: Float ..] in elemIndex True (zipWith (==) list ((\(a:b) -> b) list)) 01:01:36 Just 16764252 01:02:10 > drop 1676250 [0, 0.001 :: Float ..] 01:02:11 [1649.6229,1649.6239,1649.6249,1649.6259,1649.6268,1649.6278,1649.6288,1649... 01:02:28 > drop 16764250 [0, 0.001 :: Float ..] 01:02:30 [16383.998,16383.999,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.0,16384.... 01:02:38 i'm the best programmer; you're welcome. 01:03:50 > 2^14 -- i reiterate 01:03:51 16384 01:04:56 why 14 01:05:10 floats have what, five bit exponent? i can't remember this stuff 01:05:23 it's the mantissa that matters, i think 01:05:51 > logBase 2 0.001 01:05:52 -9.965784284662087 01:06:02 so where'd fourteen come from! 01:06:20 or did you just remember that 16384 is a power of two 01:06:24 yes. 01:06:29 wow nerd 01:06:58 although i could have guessed it too. 01:07:29 > 16384 + 2^^(-10) :: Float 01:07:29 16384.0 01:07:34 > 16384 + 2^^(-9) :: Float 01:07:35 16384.002 01:08:24 14+10 = 24 which is presumably around how many bits of mantissa there is. 01:08:32 +- 1 01:09:15 so once it reaches 2^14, the 0.001 doesn't contain any bits large enough to affect the other number when added to it. 01:09:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:10:11 @src RealFloat 01:10:12 Source not found. Are you on drugs? 01:10:19 @src RealFrac 01:10:19 class (Real a, Fractional a) => RealFrac a where 01:10:19 properFraction :: (Integral b) => a -> (b,a) 01:10:19 truncate, round, ceiling, floor :: (Integral b) => a -> b 01:10:39 hm what is that class again 01:10:58 :t isIEEE 01:10:58 RealFloat a => a -> Bool 01:11:07 nice. 01:11:13 oh it is RealFloat, @src just doesn't have it :( 01:12:25 > floatDigits (undefined :: Float) 01:12:26 24 01:12:32 there you go. 01:14:01 :i RealFloat 01:14:23 http://lambda.haskell.org/platform/doc/current/ghc-doc/libraries/haskell2010-1.1.1.0/Prelude.html#g:7 and scroll down a bit. 01:15:24 > floatRange (undefined :: Float) 01:15:25 (-125,128) 01:15:47 eight. well i guess that makes sense. 01:16:02 http://lambda.haskell.org/platform/doc/current/ghc-doc/libraries/haskell2010-1.1.1.0/Prelude.html#t:RealFloat found the right anchor 01:19:36 atan2 somehow feels a little out of place in that class :P 01:21:06 huh, does the default implementation use decode or something 01:22:57 hm it actually uses isNegativeZero. 01:23:04 lol. 01:23:38 to select the proper branch 01:24:14 if it didn't bother with that, Floating and Ord would be sufficient. 01:24:17 i think. 01:25:25 which means it would probably end up in RealFloat anyway, as the largest class subclassing both. 01:29:57 I need to resume watching The IT Crowd 01:41:05 last episode's tomorrow night 01:41:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:06:50 Code that I have written has run on ... maybe millions of computers 02:07:19 Hmm, maybe not as many 02:07:24 More than thousands I think, at least 02:07:51 http://petewarden.com/2013/09/27/why-openheatmap-is-banned-from-github/ eesh. 02:54:45 Somehow I don't think this is valid HTML anymore http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html 02:56:31 http://www.the-pope.com/nextid.html 02:56:46 "At present, it is likely that NEXTID will be dropped from the HTML specification, since it is not terribly useful. You are therefore advised against wasting your time reading the rest of this page!" "Last Update: 5 January 1998 03:02:46 Sgeo the web historian 03:08:19 which code sgo 03:08:21 re millions 03:09:21 Any Javascript code that I've written on the job.. 03:09:48 The ISP I work for is quite popular 03:10:10 ah 03:23:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:11:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:41:33 -!- asie_ has joined. 04:46:18 -!- asie_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:01:27 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:17:27 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:29:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 06:41:32 Hmp. Python argparse -- with a single positional argument with nargs='+' and optional arguments a, b and c -- can extract ['foo', 'bar', 'baz'] out of "-a x -b y -c z foo bar baz" or "foo bar baz -a x -b y -c z" just fine, but can't seem to cope with "-a x foo -b y bar -c z baz". As in, all positional arguments must be in a single group. 07:01:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:52:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:29:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:54:01 -!- carado has joined. 08:59:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:08:02 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:15:47 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:17:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:17:40 In 24 hours I will be in a flat in York 09:25:50 Is it almost like New York except old? 09:26:18 Yeah 09:26:47 You can even by shirts that say... 09:26:49 I♥ 09:26:50 Y 09:29:59 So, I'm rather nervous 09:31:00 Just imagine the flat has no clothes on, I hear that helps. 09:31:49 I am not sure if I can picture a flat /with/ clothes on 09:44:00 Why is elliott voiced 09:44:08 Why not Gregor or Roujo 10:04:42 -!- atriq has joined. 10:04:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:05:01 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 10:06:51 I'm working on Rummy mixed with Breakout 10:06:53 -!- asie has joined. 10:12:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:21:35 -!- carado has joined. 10:26:47 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:27:45 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:28:11 -!- carado has joined. 10:30:58 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 10:31:09 -!- carado has joined. 10:34:07 I've been spontaneously screaming "No!" more often than usual recently 10:48:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:05:41 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:08:04 -!- rodgort has joined. 11:14:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:20:40 Is there a term for something like a queuestack but the two ends are accessible in completely different ways and it is tricky to get something from one end to the other? 11:21:25 what's this 11:29:51 Sounds queuerious 11:45:13 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:46:51 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:50:52 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:51:48 -!- carado has joined. 11:52:07 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:52:27 -!- carado has joined. 11:55:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:04:56 -!- asie has joined. 12:24:55 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:25:38 -!- yorick has joined. 12:25:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:32:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:44:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:47:00 -!- boily has joined. 12:51:25 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 12:52:19 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:09:32 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 13:28:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:58:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:01:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:15:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:20:31 -!- conehead has joined. 14:29:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:13:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:17:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:17:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:45:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:51:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:04:23 -!- reynir has joined. 16:05:56 Hello! 16:11:07 Hi! 16:11:13 `welcome reynir 16:11:16 reynir: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:11:38 wow, what a welcome :) 16:11:42 :) 16:11:48 Wait till you see... 16:11:51 `relcome reynir 16:11:54 ​reynir: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:11:59 lol 16:12:22 I have been working on a compiler targeting brainfuck 16:12:57 What does it compile? 16:13:30 Right now only simple arithmetic expressions with addition, subtraction and multiplication 16:13:36 But there's a twist 16:13:47 It's written in Coq, so it's a certified compiler 16:14:01 Ooh, fancy 16:14:20 Here's the project https://github.com/reynir/Brainfuck 16:14:45 I feel like I know your nick from somewhere... 16:15:19 Could be from 0x10c. I recognize a few names from there 16:15:41 Yeah, I'm there 16:16:16 I was wondering if you have any tips for structuring programs / compiling to BF 16:17:10 Not me personally 16:17:25 And I'm gonna have to go now, got to pack my computer 16:17:41 Alright 16:17:50 Bye! 16:17:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:23:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:28:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:30:48 reynir, i want to make fun of you for liking 0x10c but my heart's not in it right now 16:40:13 Ok. 16:42:50 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 16:43:47 reynir, OK now I'm lightly intoxicated, and you were a fool to believe notch would ever manage to stick it through with another game 16:44:07 that was quick, 12 minutes 16:44:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:44:54 What can I say, my spite recharges quickly. 16:45:31 No, I mean you're quick to get intoxicated 16:45:40 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:45:57 If I'm honest that was just an excuse. 16:46:08 Ok. 16:47:07 ALSO: your implicit suffering makes me happy 16:47:24 "[...] (in Hindi): "Don't pretend you are studying farsi/looks like farsi to me"" 16:51:12 I just found this http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck_algorithms 16:51:21 reynir, BTW how does your BF compiler work? 16:51:29 i.e. what's the source and the target? 16:52:57 Source is arithmetic expressions with plus, minus, and multiplication. The target is brainfuck. 16:53:19 So the source language is very simple and not very interesting 16:53:21 Oh, interesting. Clicky? 16:53:36 Huh? 16:53:47 Can I get some sort of a URL, project website, repo, anythign? :P 16:53:51 *anything 16:54:10 oh, sure. https://github.com/reynir/Brainfuck 16:54:32 so wait, this thing has a right-infinite tape? 16:54:44 Yea, both directions are infinite 16:55:23 It's easier when you don't have to deal with special cases all the time (i.e. going beyond the tape) 16:56:24 I can imagine. 16:57:25 It could be awesome to compile a turing complete language eventually 16:58:00 what about a brainfuck to brainfuck compiler 16:58:05 brainfuck is TC 16:58:22 he's not compiling from brainfuck 16:58:40 oh, right. I see it now 16:59:13 Yea, I was considering doing optimizations and prove their correctness 16:59:34 imho do eodermdrome next 16:59:35 Is the idea to have a relatively low-level language, that is which uses a tape rather than variables? 17:00:03 or do you want do something more similar to "C subset to brainfuck" 17:01:37 Hm, not sure. Right now I have proven some stack primitives (push, add, dup, ...) and just compile the expressions down to those 17:02:21 So I guess the answer is the first and maybe the second. So, develop a theory for a simple stack machine and compile down to that 17:03:31 @tell oerjan Well, it seems logical to call those cosets obtained by right multiplication the right cosets. These are usually called left cosets though. 17:03:31 Consider it noted. 17:04:13 reynir: Yes, the stack based language could be used as an intermediate language I guess. 17:07:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:07:56 reynir, have you looked at underload 17:08:09 No 17:08:20 -!- Bike has joined. 17:08:39 it's a very small stack-based esolang 17:08:52 underload to bf, has that been done yet? 17:10:47 dunno 17:11:56 looks interesting 17:20:04 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:30:09 back from lunch, and I see someone else `relcommed in my absence. 17:33:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:40:39 -!- asie has joined. 17:42:23 ~metar CYUL 17:42:24 CYUL 271700Z VRB03KT 15SM FEW030 BKN042 18/10 A3029 RMK SC1SC4 SLP257 17:43:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:44:25 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:45:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 17:46:39 boily, can you not just look out of your window to see the weather 17:47:02 Phantom_Hoover: too much light outside. 17:49:15 does codu discards logs when they're too old? 17:49:22 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:49:31 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-11-12 doesn't show here :( 17:52:02 boily, well then stick your arm out 17:52:08 Koen_, no, everything is just broken 17:52:27 good, I feel much better 17:53:27 Phantom_Hoover: good idea. 17:56:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:01:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:04:53 ~metar EFHK 18:04:53 EFHK 271750Z 36006KT 9999 FEW040 05/04 Q1008 NOSIG 18:04:58 (It's dark out there.) 18:07:36 -!- Bike has joined. 18:09:00 Today I drove a silly little car around. 18:09:35 Were there thirty clowns in it? 18:10:20 No, arguably just one. 18:11:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo <- that thing. (A rental.) 18:11:52 Was it yellow? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2008_Smart_ForTwo_Passion_convertible_--_04-22-2011_2.jpg | http://pbfcomics.com/258/ 18:13:19 No, it was branded with the rental company (Sixt) logo; it's their cheapest thing. 18:14:27 isn't that just a normal smartcar 18:14:45 Is the name a Douglas Adams reference? 18:14:57 Phantom_Hoover: Sure. Does that somehow make "silly little" not applicable? 18:14:57 no, it's a contraction of 'for two' 18:15:34 fizzie, yes 18:15:54 Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. 18:16:16 that was an MIB3 reference. 18:16:25 They don't sell the electric version in Finland, which is a shame. (Not that I'm in the market for a car, though.) 18:16:31 I disagree. 18:24:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:25:39 apparently WebKit doesn't do kerning / ligatures unless you put "text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;" in the CSS 18:25:46 lol 18:25:51 "text-rendering: not-shitty;" 18:27:13 gcc -Olegibility 18:27:29 tries to make the machine code as close to english text as possible 18:27:33 some day, we'll observe a merge between LaTeX and HTML. 18:27:48 making machine code alphanumeric is neat. 18:28:53 yep 18:28:58 there should be a mapping from hexadecimal to carefully chosen consonnants and vowels, like how 0 becomes “o”, and so on. 18:29:13 http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=57&id=15 "Writing ia32 alphanumeric shellcodes" 18:29:16 of course, 9 should be “b”, so that a NOP slide on x86 becomes “bobobobobobo” :D 18:29:21 haha 18:29:54 plus there was that one paper about making programs that look enough like english text to fool most programs. 18:29:57 with words and stuff. 18:30:37 Bike: oooh, that sounds really cool 18:30:45 that's like shell code except crazier 18:31:27 wow 18:31:29 link? 18:31:46 www.cs.jhu.edu/~sam/ccs243-mason.pdf maybe this 18:34:37 awesome 18:34:39 so awesome 18:34:42 thanks Bike 18:36:30 also cool, JHU 18:36:42 that's me, your source for random papers on random subjects 18:37:02 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:37:18 my friend was a physics grad student there until he "temporarily" moved in with his girlfriend in San Francisco "for the summer" and then got a job and called them to say he's never coming back 18:37:40 shrewd 18:39:39 Why does an "avconv"-generated MP3 sound glitchy and print things like "[mp3float @ 0x7f3cb0606400]big_values too big" when seeking with mplayer? 18:39:39 yes 18:39:46 i love that error message 18:39:48 big values too big 18:40:10 in fact when I first saw it I sent it to this channel 18:41:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:41:40 might be a bug in the sideband demultiplexer 18:41:57 `pastelog big_values 18:42:04 -!- augur has joined. 18:42:05 Plays fine with vlc, FWIW. 18:42:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20705 18:42:45 (Background information: I doubt the car plays FLACs. Though who knows.) 18:45:04 does it play Ogg Vorbis? 18:45:08 surprisingly many things do 18:45:26 after all it has free implementations and no patent encumberance, so it's easy to add :) 18:45:43 It might, but it sounds like too much effort to make an extra round-trip to verify that. 18:45:49 I've used Vorbis for many years as my standard format for encoding stuff to play on various devices 18:46:00 because it's smaller than MP3 and encoders are easy to get 18:46:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:46:43 We won't have time to listen to a stickful of MP3s on this trip anyway, so I'll go with what's known to work this time. 18:47:15 how long is a stickful? 18:47:29 (Having said that, it'll probably turn out it barfs on a variable-bitrate MP3.) 18:47:40 It's a two-gig stick. 18:55:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:55:11 does frink support mp3/km? 18:55:57 Warning: undefined symbol "mp3". 19:24:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:25:21 -!- augur has joined. 19:30:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:31:38 -!- Bike has joined. 19:59:21 http://c431376.r76.cf2.rackcdn.com/39056/fnins-07-00011-r2/image_m/fnins-07-00011-g001.jpg such fonts 20:01:44 what about the fonts? 20:05:43 -!- conehead has joined. 20:06:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:14:09 (0.13 on October 11!) 20:20:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:28:03 -!- Bike has joined. 20:28:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:32:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:48:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:53:11 woo, found and fixed a refcounting bug 20:53:20 boo, C++ libraries that do manual refcounting without smart pointers 20:53:55 b-but... delete this... D: 20:54:10 yep 20:54:45 @messages-loud 20:54:45 AnotherTest said 3h 51m 13s ago: Well, it seems logical to call those cosets obtained by right multiplication the right cosets. These are usually called left cosets though. 20:55:17 it does indeed have essentially void unref() const { if (atomic_dec(&fRefCnt) == 1) delete this; } 20:55:26 I'll let the sages debate whether "delete this" should be allowed within a const method. 20:55:27 @tell anothertest I consider both conventions completely logical, and have a hard time seeing how someone could consider one of them much more natural than the other. 20:55:27 Consider it noted. 20:56:06 also, like, decrementing the refcount certainly wouldn't be, but it's declared "mutable" 20:56:32 I guess one needs the ability to retain and release objects by const pointer, but still, ewwwwwww 20:57:42 the reason why me and valgrind have a hate-hate-hate relationship: I'm completely lost when it comes to deleting stuff in C++. 20:58:30 @tell After all, you either get a coset by left multiplication of a point by a subgroup, or by left multiplication of a subgroup by a point. 20:58:30 Consider it noted. 20:58:37 Hee. 20:58:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:59:02 Is there a better way to clear that than /nick after 20:59:15 I suspect delete this; is undefined behavior 20:59:21 @tell AnotherTest After all, you either get a coset by left multiplication of a point by a subgroup, or by left multiplication of a subgroup by a point. 20:59:21 Consider it noted. 20:59:40 (but probably of the undefined-behavior-that-always-works kind) 21:02:02 olsner: even in a non-virtual method which doesn't call any virtual methods or access any instance data after "delete this"? 21:02:16 > 6852657/86400/7 21:02:17 11.33045138888889 21:02:20 it might very well still be undefined, but I don't think it *has* to be 21:02:53 boily: what about it specifically? 21:03:29 kmc: either I leak inordinate amounts of memory, or I segfault trying to be over-eager freeing memory back. 21:03:41 I still haven't found the sweet spot of understanding what I'm doing. 21:04:16 in any case, time to BBQ. or something. 21:04:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:04:23 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:04:52 pouleq 21:05:53 let's just assume after will appreciate eir group theory lesson, if e ever logs on again. 21:06:02 @tell boily C++ feels vastly more like a high level language if you use reference-counting smart pointers as much as possible 21:06:02 Consider it noted. 21:06:35 oerjan: lazy 21:06:53 Algebra? 21:07:00 what about algebra 21:07:17 You are talking algebra? 21:07:29 oerjan is 21:07:30 reynir: it happens. 21:09:06 Is it related to the topic? 21:09:31 the /topic? 21:09:39 nothing is related to the /topic 21:10:31 Bike: boily is related to the topic. 21:10:39 kmc: *reads wikipedia page on smart pointers* huh, I had no idea std::unique_ptr was a thing 21:10:43 that's really cool 21:10:56 last episode of it crowd is good; things chris o'dowd can do to his own face are awful 21:11:01 oerjan: no, boily is related to roujo 21:11:32 i thought he was related to sakhalin 21:11:41 reynir: no, it's just an old discussion that hadn't quite ended yet, so i and AnotherTest are sending lambdabot messages back and forth because we're not here at the same time. 21:12:30 Fiora: and one of the big ideas in Rust is "what if we had something like unique_ptr, but the compiler actually enforces safe usage in every case" 21:12:44 oh, is there a reason it's not safe? 21:13:09 reynir: briefly, it's about how mathematicians haven't argued which kind of coset should be called left and which should be called right, and i and AnotherTest don't agree on whether there is an obviously correct convention (i don't think there is). 21:13:10 a few reasons 21:13:16 *haven't agreed 21:13:21 you can coerce it to a plain pointer / reference easily 21:13:36 and you would do this when you want to call a function and pass it the object without transferring ownership 21:13:46 ok 21:13:48 but that function could stash away that raw pointer and use it after the object has been freed 21:13:56 Fiora: "it's c++, of course it's not safe!" 21:14:38 Bike: no, boily is related to pouti. 21:14:48 C++ kinda-sorta tries to be memory safe using a combination of language features and convention 21:14:53 oerjan: i thought it was just because you multiply(element,other-element) 21:14:59 and it totally falls over when people just treat it as "C with some extra junk" which is what they usually do 21:15:07 of course i can never get cosets straight anyway ;_; 21:15:52 kmc: "so rust is like C with uniqueness types added" 21:16:11 ;P 21:16:20 Fiora: another reason is that there's no mutability guarantee; you can uniquely own something and yet some function you call mutates it 21:16:44 Bike: well the thing is, should the direction be decided by the side of the element or by the side of the other-element? 21:17:01 in Rust, the root of an ownership tree decides globally whether that tree of objects is mutable or immutable 21:17:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:26 (the root is either a local variable or a garbage-collected box) 21:17:32 oerjan: the element, since the other element is written related to a capital letter, whi ch is more improtant and central!! 21:17:52 there's this issue in C++ (although I don't know that it really relates to unique pointers) where you modify a datastructure as you're iterating over it, and everything blows up 21:18:24 i guess that makes sense though, insofar as terminology debates make sense 21:18:27 (god i say "insofar" a lot) 21:18:46 Rust prevents this because the "give me an iterator" method, and the iterator struct, will "borrow" the datastructure as an immutable borrowed pointer, and nobody else can mutate something while an immutable borrowed pointer to it exists 21:18:56 Insofar sounds like the name of a city, or a company 21:18:57 (which is enforced statically, except in the case of those GC'd boxes) 21:18:58 Insofar Industries 21:19:00 :D 21:19:17 Fiora: i'll note that down for my cyborg ant production facilities shell corp 21:19:22 kmc: sounds cool tho 21:19:24 Bike: AnotherTest thinks the opposite of you :) 21:19:35 and i think neither is obviously correct. 21:19:37 oerjan: well anothertest is wrong. i hope this solves the problem 21:20:01 Bike: excellent, now go fix peace in the middle-east. 21:20:01 i don't think i know how you'd verify that statically off the top of my head but that's probably just because i'm not thinking about it 21:20:25 first you hire as many PL PhDs and grad students as you can 21:20:52 Bike: just put it in the types and ... infer stuff 21:21:04 i think i have insufficient resources for this algorithm 21:21:32 Rust is neat cause it's a new language designed by people who have actually been paying attention to programming languages research in the past 40 years 21:22:30 this confuses some Haskellers who assume that anyone in that position would produce Haskell exactly 21:22:33 oh well 21:22:43 i hear haskell was set down from on high 21:24:27 kmc can you... not use rust as a vantage point from which to complain about haskellers 21:25:41 i don't do it that much 21:25:59 I'm annoyed at how many Haskellers look at Rust and find one thing they don't like and immediately declare it to be garbage 21:26:06 as though Haskell is so perfect in comparison 21:26:29 they're both cool languages trying to do difficult (and vastly different) things and they both have their share of flaws 21:26:55 i'm sure these things are true 21:27:28 but yes perhaps I should not just bring this up when nobody is advancing this view 21:27:56 PH is so easily annoyed by me complaining about things ^__^ 21:28:10 moe 21:28:52 * Fiora hugs kmc 21:29:21 kmc: *- by me complaining about things 21:29:48 ? 21:29:53 * kmc hugs Fiora 21:29:55 "PH is easily annoyed" 21:29:59 haha 21:30:00 i'm annoyed by this hugging 21:30:13 are you annoyed by the damn kids who won't get off your lawn? 21:30:31 PH isn't old enough to have a lawn, or a cane to wave. 21:31:17 i am if they are hugging each other or complaining about haskellers 21:31:23 or both? 21:31:28 oerjan, on the other hand, probably has several lawns and canes. 21:31:51 don't you start talking fizzie 21:32:02 you're married, that makes you like twenty years older 21:32:17 i don't think i have a cane. maybe stored away somewhere. and i don't have my own lawn. 21:32:35 i have a back yard but not a front lawn 21:32:47 the front of my house consists of some stairs, and a tree which produces rain all the time, even when it is not raining 21:33:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:33:49 having your own lawn may be rare when you don't live on the ground floor. 21:33:59 is PH jealous he doesn't get a hug 21:34:10 @hug Phantom_Hoover 21:34:10 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 21:35:16 We have an "offering stone" in the yard-like thing between these two apartment buildings. 21:35:40 is that offering as in sacrifice? 21:35:43 Yes. 21:35:47 that's so metal 21:35:55 Though the sacrifices were bits of grain, AIUI. 21:35:55 have you offered anything 21:36:00 "ofring" is norwegian for sacrifice. 21:36:00 less metal 21:36:06 (unless they are steel-cut oats?) 21:36:16 It's just a stone with a barely noticeable groove in it. 21:36:21 oerjan: what if i put some grass turf on my balcony 21:36:21 how do you even sacrifice grain 21:36:23 like, an oat cut up with steel? 21:36:30 while offer is more often "tilbud". 21:36:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel-cut_oats 21:36:36 yes. 21:37:00 used to make a thing that's like oatmeal but people will tell you it's so much better 21:37:32 http://www.nba.fi/en/cultural_environment/archaeological_heritage/maintenance/maintained_sites/rapola/cupmarked_stones <- one of those except lot less obvious than what's in the picture. 21:37:41 are you complaining about pretentious middle class people kmc 21:37:49 ;_; 21:37:59 Phantom_Hoover: You put some grain on the stone, and I think then you're pretty much done. 21:38:01 great, now i want a rock to offer blood to. 21:38:05 fertility cults eh? 21:39:08 fizzie, ...can you go back and get it later 21:39:19 Phantom_Hoover: I think that'd be bad form. 21:39:44 the spirits usually come and grab food pretty fast, with their animal avatars 21:39:44 I'm certainly no expert. 21:39:56 But maybe I should put some of my breakfast oatmeal on the stone just in case it'd help. 21:41:04 haha 21:42:13 * oerjan is reminded of this stone from the island my mother was from http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:D%C3%B8nna_marble_phallus.jpg 21:42:51 good filename 21:42:56 yes. 21:43:10 doesn't look much like a penis honestly 21:43:33 oerjan: "tilbud" in norwegian is quite confusing, over here "tillbud" usually means accident or some kind of threatening or dangerous event 21:43:45 there's a joke in this somewhere 21:43:54 penis 21:43:54 there 21:44:02 (it can also mean something like warning, correction or order) 21:44:42 olsner: huh 21:44:48 Bike, well it was better than that 21:45:24 no that was the only joke in there 21:46:03 there's a joke in that too 21:46:05 humorologist jim wazowski quoted a p-value of .0007 "that the joke was really just that shitty", according to sources 21:46:09 Bike: i vaguely recall you're not the first person to think it doesn't look much like one. but i'm sure the tourist board violently disagrees. 21:46:35 they should erect a sign laying out their argument, with pictures 21:47:18 "this was back before widescreen, you understand" 21:47:38 Heh heh heh, you said 'erect' 21:48:11 i regret this thing that i have started 21:48:23 You can't spell "rectangle" without having an erection. Wait, that's not how it goes. 21:48:30 well that's the thing 21:48:38 it's stone and sticking straight up, so one would interpret it as an erect penis 21:48:52 but the proportions would be quite unusual (though not totally outside phenotypic variation) 21:49:38 the brilliant joke about which Bike was scoffing was that it would appear to be a disproportionately short one 21:49:51 `addquote You can't spell "rectangle" without having an erection. Wait, that's not how it goes. 21:49:51 `echo hi 21:49:51 @ping 21:49:51 pong 21:49:59 1109) You can't spell "rectangle" without having an erection. Wait, that's not how it goes. 21:50:01 hi 21:50:08 hm there's some lag somewhere. 21:50:33 `quotes 21:50:35 463) combinatronics seems to be the mathematics chasing buddha's tail yeah.. he was a smart monkey that buddha 21:50:53 never noticed that it was 'combinatronics' before 21:51:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 21:51:40 i understand the buddha outsmarted monkeys. 21:52:55 fizzie: YKINMK 21:53:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:56:01 -!- Ghoul__ has joined. 21:56:22 I had to Urban Dictionary that. 21:57:57 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:57:57 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:58:20 -!- Bike has joined. 21:59:29 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 21:59:35 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 21:59:35 -!- audioPhil has joined. 22:01:25 `relcome audioPhil 22:01:28 ​audioPhil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:02:15 fizzie: and now you know what it means! 22:02:21 @tell AnotherTest underload to bf, has that been done yet? <-- yes, fungot's implementation used to be bf before fizzie wrote one directly in befunge. 22:02:21 Consider it noted. 22:02:21 oerjan: it sounds like 22:02:34 haha 'combinatronics' 22:02:36 I miss itidus 22:03:17 you scared him away! 22:03:27 i am told i scared him away also and i can believe that 22:04:03 -!- audioPhil has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 22:04:04 oh well 22:04:12 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:04:42 fungot: what sounds like what? 22:04:42 olsner: not me. it's some other structure, are special in cl" helps me understand scheme better 22:06:01 muscles uses hexagonal tiling. neato. 22:07:27 hexagonal tiling is the default if you squish a bunch of round things together... 22:07:28 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-11-12 doesn't show here :( <-- s/\/log\/// 22:07:35 oops 22:07:42 *-\/ 22:07:51 * oerjan grins maniackally 22:08:15 cool, apparently it is now very easy to write Rust programs which don't use the runtime system http://ix.io/8fH 22:08:23 oerjan: s/\\\///? 22:08:29 #[lang = "exchange_malloc"] says "this function implements the language feature of allocating ~-boxes" 22:08:43 and you can provide such implementations just for the language features you use (here, no GC, no threads, etc) 22:08:49 @tell Koen_ http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-11-12 doesn't show here :( <-- s/log\/// 22:08:50 Consider it noted. 22:09:20 olsner: RIGHT 22:10:24 @tell AnotherTest In my defense, the bf version -- under fungot's time limits -- barely managed to run (foo)S. 22:10:24 Consider it noted. 22:10:24 fizzie: what do you mean because of maclisp? i realized it at 4 am last night 22:11:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:11:29 kmc: cool 22:11:52 kmc: Someone on ##asm was trying to port https://github.com/charliesome/rustboot to x86-64. 22:12:00 interesting 22:12:09 they should port it to Rust 0.8 (released yesterday) and ditch zero.rs, first 22:12:21 (zero.rs was a workaround for the days when you had to implement *every* lang item) 22:12:53 This was the other day, so the querent is long gone, sadly. 22:13:40 Also I made a rust/bare metal "joke" I'm not very proud of. 22:14:06 You could make a bear metal joke 22:14:14 wow "querent" is quite the word 22:17:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:27 a queer word 22:17:33 :D 22:17:45 kmc: oh, zero.rs isn't needed anymore? 22:17:46 nice 22:18:09 myname: apparently yes 22:18:10 rust, now abolishing zero 22:18:14 I'm just learning this in #rust 22:18:20 fizzie: is ##asm any fun? 22:18:37 mumbles about getting banned 22:18:42 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:18:53 kmc: yeah, i read you there pretty often 22:19:06 myname: I might port one of my toy no-libc C programs to Rust 22:19:26 kmc: what does it? 22:19:47 it renders flame fractals and serves them from an embedded webserver 22:19:58 multithreaded renderer 22:20:04 aaaaugh 22:20:06 oh dear 22:20:09 parks and rec has gone too far 22:20:11 and it embeds its own machine code in the flame fractals in a cutesy way 22:20:16 Phantom_Hoover: too far = London? 22:20:22 oh, rust 0.8 is already in the repos 22:20:32 no, too far is reagan/thatcher roleplay 22:20:40 that's pretty far 22:20:40 and is actually much smaller than 0.7, wow 22:20:48 is it sexual roleplay... 22:20:51 yes 22:20:54 oh god. 22:21:28 0.8 was released yesterday 22:22:08 also maybe I should write a not-ridiculous flame fractal renderer using Rust and GLSL 22:22:30 and without libc 22:22:44 rust without libc shouldn't be that hard 22:22:49 my *other* weekend project that I also won't get around to doing this weekend is to build a public-key stream cipher based on Dual_EC_DRBG 22:22:59 ha. 22:23:03 myname: yeah they're telling me it's easy 22:23:50 kmc: do you have an eye on how hard it is to make bindings for existing c libraries? 22:23:58 a little bit 22:24:03 last time i had something to do with it was 0.5 22:24:09 it's pretty easy: http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/master/tutorial-ffi.html 22:24:09 it was crappy back then 22:24:24 my job involves a lot of bindings to C libraries but I haven't made one from scratch yet 22:24:28 and they are big, weird C libraries 22:25:01 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:25:19 well, i'm interested in termbox atm 22:25:26 should be pretty straightforward 22:25:34 biggest deal may be the struct 22:26:05 yeah, there's no way to import a struct definition to Rust :/ 22:26:08 not in the language itself I mean 22:26:14 there are bindings generators; I haven't used them 22:26:16 i know 22:26:28 you have to make an identical struct 22:27:19 kmc, wait are you going to make an electricsheep that works in 1080p 22:27:31 in realtime yes 22:27:33 I sort of made one back in 2007 22:27:35 but failed to release it 22:27:49 olsner: I'd say generally not. But then, they can't all be "#esoteric"s, you know? 22:27:51 even a 2007 graphics card could render decent looking flame fractals at 4096 x 4096 x 60fps 22:27:59 it's a very GPU-able algorithm 22:28:11 kmc, i will pay you* 22:28:17 *i will not pay you 22:28:40 frames per second, the third dimension 22:29:16 time is just another spatial dimension, maaaaaan. 22:29:28 (so frequency must be one too,, like how spatial patterns are) 22:30:48 haha 22:31:53 * oerjan hits Bike with a metric signature 22:32:19 hz? 22:33:34 it hertz? 22:33:36 Bike: the time dimension has opposite sign to the space dimensions in the signature 22:34:26 would it if it's a spatial dimension? 22:36:08 OF COURSE NOT 22:42:57 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 22:45:28 fungot: what's your metric signature? 22:45:29 olsner: i'm an idiot"? why not just 22:45:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:52:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:05:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:09:30 fizzie: it's certainly no #esoteric so far 23:10:08 olsner: "So far" is a reasonably representative sample. (But occasionally there are still interesting things.) 23:16:28 -!- Bike has joined. 23:17:41 Insofar Industries: Representative samples for the masses 23:18:35 codu logs still busted 23:18:52 Bike: no they're not. 23:19:15 well ok maybe the formatting i keep hearing about 23:19:28 thanks 23:20:01 in fact the url complained about earlier was wrong, anyway :P 23:24:15 oerjan: it wasn't, it was the URL to the formatted log 23:24:18 I think. 23:24:36 nothing is true 23:34:23 elliott: oh! why is that in a different directory. 23:34:52 because log/ is actually a CGI script, I think. 23:34:57 ic 23:34:58 or such. 23:35:25 which script is broken. 23:35:27 hm... 23:35:50 `cat bin/log 23:35:51 ​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi 23:36:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 23:36:14 `ls irclogs 23:36:16 ls: cannot access irclogs: No such file or directory 23:36:22 `ls /var/irclogs 23:36:24 _ai \ _corewars \ _esoteric \ _esoteric-chess-variants \ _esoteric-minecraft \ _esoteric_shadow \ _\FRIends*foR*evEr\ \ _FRIends*foR*evEr \ _glogbot \ index.php \ log \ log.css \ log.js \ _plof \ raw \ _scapegoat \ stalker.php \ _weaaM 23:36:44 `ls -l /var/irclogs/log 23:36:46 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 23:36:51 `run ls -l /var/irclogs/log 23:36:53 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 15 Aug 20 2012 /var/irclogs/log -> ../html/log.php 23:37:34 `run ls -l /var/html/log.php 23:37:37 ls: cannot access /var/html/log.php: No such file or directory 23:37:58 `ls /var 23:38:00 irclogs 23:38:14 perhaps we have discovered the problem 23:38:16 hm i guess maybe it only mounts the irclogs part 23:38:24 sux 23:38:25 so not shown in HackEgo 23:38:48 `mount 23:38:50 rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) \ none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sb 23:39:39 `run mount | grep var 23:39:41 none on /var/irclogs type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/var/irclogs/) 23:39:54 yep 23:41:17 and the url contains no part corresponding to the irclogs 23:41:36 so we can probably not see it. 23:41:50 (/var/html, that is.) 23:42:23 or whatever it's called. 23:59:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2013-09-28: 00:01:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:09:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:35:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:49:08 I wrote some idea I have now to make HWPL (the older ones had some mistakes): http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/hwpl.txt 00:49:41 I didn't write about expressions and operators yet, and there are probably other things missing too. 00:49:55 Such as, on the outer-level statements, ROM-level statements, etc 00:51:30 And then, I suppose, a RAM statement for use in a module code to specify internal RAM. 01:03:41 -!- Bike has joined. 01:11:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:15:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:16:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:24:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:39:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:39:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 01:43:56 -!- augur has joined. 01:47:59 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 01:50:03 -!- ^v has joined. 01:50:26 -!- ^v has changed nick to dan200. 01:55:46 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:31:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:45:42 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:16:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:17:08 -!- monotone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:17:15 -!- monotone has joined. 03:19:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:31:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:36:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:36:27 Oops there was some connection error 03:38:11 hi38 03:38:20 that's not a very good greeting. 03:38:46 yyo38 03:42:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:46:38 -!- Ghoul__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:51:31 -!- azaq23 has joined. 04:41:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 05:26:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:27:16 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 05:31:25 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 05:38:54 Hrm. I made a script thing to save lm-sensors temperature data of this IRC box in a file, but turns out it's impressively boring: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130928-tmp.png 05:44:48 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130928-tmp2.png -- also including the non-coretemp sensors that I think have wrong resistor values; but they're not any more interesting either. 06:11:38 `slist 06:11:41 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:18:21 -!- Ghoul__ has joined. 06:33:17 -!- asie has joined. 06:58:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:10:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:10:13 This talk I'm watching just implied that compilability is an indicativeness of understandability 07:10:19 My Tcl-loving self feels insulted 07:11:15 In some sense compilability /is/ understandability, by a thing that isn't a human. I guess. 07:11:42 Also a thing that's not very good at math or hitting on people. 07:12:36 Stop hitting people with no good purpose! 07:13:02 good advice 07:13:42 The preposition is pretty important there, man. 07:14:21 7. hit -- (a connection made via the internet to another website; "WordNet gets many hits from users worldwide") -- I'm sure that example sentence was selected entirely at random. 07:15:15 whyd you look it up 07:15:40 I was hoping for funny uncommon meanings. 07:16:03 Sadly, there was just the boring. 07:18:00 Has anyone tried TCL Robots? http://tclrobots.org 07:18:21 I have not. 07:18:42 "III. To aim, direct one's aim or course. -- 18. intr. To aim, seek, strive. Obs. rare -- (1380) Pearl l. 132 Þe wyȝ..Hittez to haue ay more & more." 07:18:46 -!- Bike_ has joined. 07:19:33 Huh. Spam with the subject line "He expertly blended together acoustic and electronic instruments" and the (entire) body text "Elevation lines are added to the plot to help delineate changes in elevation. In July 2000, UZT 1." 07:19:38 Wonder what purpose that serves. 07:19:58 No MIME or HTML versions or anything. 07:20:25 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 07:21:13 zzo38: i see hwpl has primitive ram and muxes. 07:22:32 impomatic: that seems awefully like a million other games that I also have not played 07:22:45 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 07:23:17 Bike_: Yes, that is some things it has. Is that OK like the way it is? 07:24:50 mm, i just wonder about it being primitive. it seems like something one could reasonably implement oneself. 07:24:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:24:58 or having a system with no ram, etc. 07:25:53 Maybe RAM doesn't need to be primitive, although FPGAs generally have primitive muxes so that is useful for at least that purpose it seems. 07:27:02 why limit yourself to fpgas right 07:27:14 It isn't supposed to be limit to FPGAs. 07:27:29 However, it is one possible use. 07:28:10 anyway, what i meant is i was waondering if those sorts of things could be library sorts of things. presumably a synthesizer could choose to implement such a library thing with a physical mux, or not, depending on available hardware, etc. 07:28:51 Yes, perhaps that can be right. That thing "depending on available hardware" is what the MODELS command is for, so yes I suppose it can be done. 07:37:13 Therefore you are probably correct. 07:39:13 Hmmm... I haven't played any games apart from programming games / text adventures for about 15 years. Is there anything I ought to try? (apart from the obvious two, Minecraft and Dwarf Fortress) 07:39:34 Maybe the CGA Collection? I don't know. 07:39:56 CGA collection? 07:40:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:41:02 CGA Collection is a set of public domain DOS games including source-codes. 07:41:26 (Therefore you will need some way to run DOS programs on whatever computer you have) 07:41:36 http://zzo38computer.org/GAMES/CGACOLL.ZIP 07:42:23 -!- Bike has joined. 07:54:11 Downloaded, thanks 07:58:31 Does it work? Do you like this? 08:21:48 -!- dan200 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:27:25 -!- trout has changed nick to invariable. 08:41:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:42:50 -!- carado has joined. 08:51:44 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 09:41:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:58:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:49:55 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:53:25 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:12:02 @tell oerjan I guess if we make a page that redirects to Recursion, we can make the "see also" recursion link to that page 11:12:02 Consider it noted. 11:16:36 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:27:33 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 11:30:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:31:22 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 11:32:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:18:30 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 12:41:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:58:50 Help aaah 13:59:00 I am no longer in Hexham 13:59:01 I repeat 13:59:05 I am no longer in Hexham 13:59:13 -!- asie has joined. 13:59:24 Taneb: welcome to the real world 13:59:43 olsner, well, I'm in York 13:59:46 do you know how to feed yourself? 14:00:07 I think so 14:00:14 I have loads of Italian biscuit-y things 14:00:26 And a camera! 14:03:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:03:14 olsner, you know more about this than I do, can I feed myself with them? 14:03:57 biscuits will keep you going for a short while, I wouldn't recommend the camera 14:04:10 better to sell it and buy more biscuits 14:05:46 These are the biscuits: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1266812_579131395456452_1244635056_o.jpg 14:07:41 beware that the box is deceptively big - most of it is air, not food 14:07:51 Oh no! 14:07:59 By the way, I took that picture with my camera 14:09:38 Hello Taneb 14:09:47 Hello reynir 14:10:26 as you've seen, the camera can be useful to gain information about everyday objects through the internet 14:10:57 Hmm, in that case I will keep it and use it to help identify potential food 14:12:22 Someone should make a web service where you upload a photo and people will vote on wether it's food or not 14:18:05 -!- yorick has joined. 14:39:25 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 14:40:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:08:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:31:59 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: No route to host). 15:32:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:33:27 -!- nooodl has quit (Client Quit). 15:34:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:37:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:49:22 -!- conehead has joined. 16:01:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:10:16 Well, I am not the first person in my flat to get locked out 16:24:48 but you'll be the second 16:25:36 Only time will tell 16:25:43 you got locked out *in* your flat? 16:26:08 @massages-loud 16:26:08 oerjan said 18h 17m 18s ago: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-11-12 doesn't show here :( <-- s/log\/// 16:26:34 that's s/\/log\/// 16:27:05 oh wait no 16:30:22 Koen_, the flat has locked rooms 16:30:29 makes sense 17:01:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:09:17 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:29:12 -!- invariable has changed nick to variable. 17:39:48 there was a guy who used Mosh to escape from a broken elevator and blogged about it 17:52:15 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:53:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:53:56 kmc: is that a pun or a fact? 17:54:54 That is a fact, I read the blog post 17:55:09 I don't think Mosh would have helped in this situation 17:55:58 what would the pun be? 17:57:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:02:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:14:21 there's a cop down the road from my new flat 18:14:23 i feel socialist 18:16:34 a chicken coöp? 18:16:55 forget every time you have seen boily use the diaeresis please 18:17:20 diæretic ænema 18:17:59 (i mean this cop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co-operative_Group) 18:20:20 Since we managed to beat the demon without too much difficulty (due to many stupid mistakes they made), I suggested to the DM something, the demon's brain is cursed and now my character is cursed and cannot automatically heal (so spells have to be used), and a few other things (the curse can still be removed normally, but then I hungry again), and furthermore they will resurrect the demon and we have to beat them a second time... Do you like this? 18:20:35 no 18:24:00 Do you have other ideas? 18:24:48 what if the demon turns out to be the demon's brain's father 18:25:21 apparently in addition to hating street musicians Charles Babbage also hated kids who play with hoops in the street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoop_rolling#British_Empire 18:25:35 http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=5 18:25:43 what a bastard 18:25:48 like a prototypical haskeller 18:26:20 Phantom_Hoover: OK, if the demon turns out to be the demon's brain's father, well it doesn't seem to make a difference 18:26:36 (Maybe you know otherwise) 18:26:38 zzo38, what if it made a difference 18:26:46 What kind of difference? 18:27:00 an ethical one 18:27:25 :3 18:27:33 I don't see an ethical difference either. 18:27:50 what if the demon was charles babbage 18:28:59 Well, they aren't. 18:29:23 ooh 18:29:25 i like that 18:31:36 'He once counted all the broken panes of glass of a factory, publishing in 1857 a "Table of the Relative Frequency of the Causes of Breakage of Plate Glass Windows": Of 464 broken panes, 14 were caused by "drunken men, women or boys"' 18:33:20 HELLO from HANKO. 18:33:30 HELO 18:33:34 EHLO 18:33:43 here's the table of causes of breakage http://i.imgur.com/OsoIsI6.png 18:33:59 ah shit 18:34:01 I can only assume that HANKO is a piece of IKEA furniture that fizzie is now trapped inside 18:34:23 No, it's probably the southernmost city in Finland. 18:34:46 Well, perhaps not. But close, anyway. 18:34:56 And as we know, "city in Finland" is code for IKEA furniture. 18:35:34 i have 3 optional modules: automata and formal languages; further automata and formal languages; and algorithmic graph theory 18:36:09 what's in HANKO 18:36:15 (also help why are we capitalizing it) 18:36:49 i wonder if there is a ferry to Hiiumaa and whether that is a nice place to go or not 18:36:53 Southernmost tip of continental Finland, says Wikipedia. 18:37:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:37:10 they sound amazing but last time i tried any non core maths modules it ended in disaster 18:37:30 look around you, just look around you, have you worked out what we're looking for? it's automata! 18:38:37 My father's been sailing around Hiiumaa, I think. (Well, it's kind of a logical place to stop at when going round Finland-Estonia-Sweden-Åland-Finland.) 18:39:44 kmc: yes, from Rohukla IIRC; and at least Krdla is a very nice town. 18:40:01 that's a nice long sailing trip 18:40:12 is the water calm up there or no? 18:40:27 calm? = does not have waves? 18:40:36 It's not as choppy as proper oceans, I believe. 18:40:48 choppy = has big waves? 18:41:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:41:21 But there are certainly even strong storms now and then, I guess generally you just keep track of the current forecast and stay a few extra days if it looks too bad. 18:41:25 with normal wind the wave height is around 1,5m 18:42:59 The Turku Archipelago is I think kind of impressive as far as "lots of small islands" things go. 18:43:14 20000 islands, says Google. 18:43:29 It looks very spotty on a map. 18:51:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:52:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:55:57 hi 18:59:57 -!- atriq has joined. 19:01:52 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:06:03 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:00:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:08:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:21:31 -!- asie has joined. 20:28:49 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:36:25 They really draw too many cards; I have 27 remaining in draw pile and they have zero. 20:36:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:36:32 This happens really often. 20:40:28 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:48:07 the recent spate of dead links has made me wonder: if esolangs.org is the only thing linking to an external page, and as it uses the nofollow attribute, will the web archive archive it at all? 20:48:20 @messages-loud 20:48:20 Koen_ said 9h 36m 17s ago: I guess if we make a page that redirects to Recursion, we can make the "see also" recursion link to that page 20:49:02 @tell Koen_ the problem is, that's mutual recursion, which is a different joke. 20:49:02 Consider it noted. 20:49:32 or wait... 20:49:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:50:48 as in archive.org? 20:50:55 yes. 20:51:32 what made me wonder about it is that the most recent dead link has only been crawled once, today, and i suspect that was because Rdebath checked if it was there. 20:53:13 does wayback machine's bot even care about nofollow, i thought it was for spammers 20:53:35 ...spammers don't care, do they. 20:53:52 even spammers gotta respect The Rules 20:54:20 as in, nofollow keeps links from influencing google results, so spamers have no reason to spam links. 20:55:11 i'd discuss this more but the neighbor has left their dog alone at home and the barking is making by brain shut down. 20:55:23 No, for one thing Google isn't the only one, and mirrors may not have nofollow 20:57:07 of course the dog happens to only bark when i'm considering discussing something that requires my brain working. i blame demons. 20:57:32 or maybe poltergeists. 20:59:10 "I must have food, or I'll die" 20:59:19 Is there someone who this isn't true of? 20:59:30 i tried watching the stars this evening. i think this part of the city has more light pollution than where i used to live. 20:59:34 Sgeo: Breatharians 20:59:48 Sgeo: Well, there is reports of such things; I don't know how valid they are although at least some of them aren't valid. 21:00:01 Sgeo: if you consider water and/or carbon dioxide food, then no. 21:00:50 and i guess even plants need additional things like phosphorus. 21:01:36 Sgeo: obvious answer, anything that wasn't alive to start with. 21:04:57 Phantom_Hoover: What's with this acting 21:05:01 (in Home on the Remains) 21:05:12 i don't remember 21:05:17 imo that episode was another dud 21:05:23 Is it supposed to be deliberate, because thats just how these aliens talk? 21:05:30 again, i don't remember 21:05:34 it's farscape, so it's likely 21:10:45 the next episode is also weird and not very interesting, and the episode after is very good 21:23:54 the good episodes are the one where zan shows up again as the bad guy in the psycho game, and the one where john is crazy and acting like cartoons 21:27:41 that's the 4th season you idiot 21:27:52 sgeo's on the second 21:28:03 in which case the best episodes are like half of them 21:31:53 which episode is it where the warrior guy survives deep space without a pressure suit for like a minute without dying? is that the first one? 21:35:00 I've seen that ep 21:35:07 it's early in the first season 21:35:17 First season, it's the one where Moya gets pregnant iirc 21:35:27 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 21:35:45 Phantom_Hoover: Zhaan can be scary 21:36:08 also a dick 21:36:16 (have you seen the way we weren't) 21:37:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:38:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:38:42 https://www.usenix.org/conference/woot13/page-fault-weird-machine-lessons-instruction-less-computation 21:38:46 yes 21:39:00 That was more focused on Aeryn 21:39:09 I don't really remember what Zhaan did in that episode 21:39:46 well she was all "god aeryn you really are a shit" (despite helping cut pilot's arm off a season earlier) 21:42:33 why is she (the zhaan actress) the only one who shows up at conventions? 21:43:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:45:30 dunno, ask her 21:45:38 did you hear the story about her kidneys 21:46:38 I just read about it, and now I'm spoiled 21:47:13 i would've told you it in a less-spoiling way! 21:48:38 tell me, though i've watched the whole thing, because i've forgotten most of it 21:50:00 well she had some reaction to all the blue bodypaint, and it ended up making her kidneys bleed 21:50:42 clever. 21:50:59 i heard it was affecting her skin as well 21:51:12 but yeah, bleeding kidneys is a good reason to leave the show 21:51:23 every report i've heard has placed emphasis upon the kidneys 21:51:39 did she start replacing nouns and verbs by a single word? 21:51:48 no 21:52:39 oerjan: what xyzzy xyzzy xyzzy would xyzzy? 21:57:54 quintopia: modulo still using correct grammar, mind 21:58:39 i was 21:58:42 ok 21:59:37 i am afraid my xyzzy is a bit rusty. 22:00:30 i take it you only speak marklar 22:21:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:28:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:38:15 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:59:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:07:06 fungot: please summarize 23:07:06 olsner: she's working for the same reason that i may never know 23:07:16 good summary. 23:08:34 if fungot may never know I shall never know either 23:08:35 olsner: i cannot disagree, but so does 23:08:46 me? 23:13:26 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:14:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:19:37 what the hell's fungot that I don't? 23:19:37 quintopia: i was trying to get you even high enough not to erase fnord text? 23:19:47 oh 23:19:49 well 23:20:15 fungot: something something kmc 23:20:15 oerjan: ( writes stallings) to procedure, got 2 23:20:18 what does fungot not do? 23:20:19 olsner: of course, the define is also wrong :) there's probably an opengl antialiasing feature i should use plt modules for that in 2.5! 23:20:31 of course 23:21:20 more fungot? 23:21:21 olsner: to use the char for naming " combinations" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord ( to which you copy previously executed code. probably one of my fnord nick. maybe i'll ask later. 23:21:47 it went downhill from the summary, I think 23:22:04 olsner: he doesn't give us up, he doesn't let us down, he doesn't run around and desert us. 23:22:22 is fungot a he? 23:22:23 olsner: where build-hierarchy is the macro system will make it unrealistic to adapt to pre-osx. i finally found the one. read it not long after it isn't true the site is crap 23:22:38 olsner: on alternate sundays. 23:23:09 and in hebrew. 23:23:17 apparently fungot "finally found the one", so I'm happy for 'em either way 23:23:18 olsner: i was just repeating commonly heard phrases over here? anybody still alive? does he mean by the general form of capitalization. 23:24:01 itt fungot admits to using cliches 23:24:02 oerjan: the lecture vids are outdated but nice to see t on other architectures. good maintainer :) 23:24:31 fungot: what's your opinion of the Baha Men? 23:24:32 quintopia: beauty is in the c faq is stupidly inefficient then. :) 23:25:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:26:48 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:28:55 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 23:30:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:39:49 We need more concatenative languages 23:40:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:43:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:44:48 clearly concatenative languages should form a monoid. 23:45:30 Make some. 23:50:26 cpressey has one or two 23:51:00 wait, do you mean the set of concatenative languages should form a monoid? or every concatenative language should form a monoid? 23:51:41 Unfortunately concatenativety + higher level functions means you have to do quoting 23:51:54 Which you don't have to do with something like Haskell 2013-09-29: 00:05:18 Koen_: the former. the latter is automatic. 00:06:01 FreeFull: lambdas are sort of quoting for this purpose. 00:16:40 -!- augur has joined. 00:21:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:21:54 oerjan: Yeah but you can use partial application to avoid lambdas 00:22:57 need parentheses though 00:24:46 although either jot or iota manages to have just one function and left to right application give all of ski. 00:26:23 hm wait no. 00:27:45 > map id [1,2,3] 00:27:46 [1,2,3] 00:27:49 No parentheses thre 00:27:52 there* 00:28:08 jot is close except it's reverse application. 00:30:13 there's probably some set of combinators that would allow it though. 00:31:55 (also not just one function _and_ no parentheses, that was definitely a brain fart.) 00:32:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:50 -!- augur has joined. 01:13:08 did you see this yet http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24232896 01:13:32 * oerjan is a bit lagged on his reddit catchup. 01:16:01 (it's about the first carbon nanotube computer.) 01:16:21 it's a little bit strapped for memory. 01:19:51 -!- azaq23 has joined. 01:23:32 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 01:25:33 I tried to embed ATLAST into a program but it doesn't seems to work; I get the error "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information." 01:25:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Client Quit). 01:27:03 Do you know what this message is? 01:27:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:27:59 zzo38: it needs to be deinitialized properly? 01:28:11 -!- ^v has joined. 01:31:28 quintopia: I see no documentation about deinitialization. 01:36:07 i see no documentation 01:36:24 The example doesn't include any deinitialization. 01:36:49 i dont know wha ATLAST is 01:37:08 -!- kmc has set topic: Ultra Pattern Recognition: Sliced Pineapple: Small Umbrella Version:: | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | the boily at the end of all things. 01:37:11 It is a Forth-like system for embedding into another program. 01:39:04 kmc: why this colonialism? 01:39:35 which 01:39:46 of the topic 01:40:29 Slaves to Armok: God of Blood: Chapter II: Dwarf fortress 01:41:46 why the double ending 01:42:03 -!- CADD has joined. 01:42:16 I am trying to make a programming language for text adventure games that compiles into Frolg assembly language (including support for embedding arbitrary assembly language codes, even macros), and with some other optimizations too, which other Z-machine compilers lack. I try to think of what it should be done with! Things I try don't work for some reasons. 01:43:17 Any ideas? 01:45:58 "named after a deity in dragslay, himself named for a variable named "arm_ok" that counted the number of limbs the player still had attached" 01:47:21 i assume the deity was good at decrementing that 01:49:04 Decrementing? Won't it possibly be better to keep track of which ones using a bit field (unless you have a bunch of all same limbs without sides and stuff like that, I suppose)? 01:50:33 http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1nbna6/oh_hai_mark_greg_sestero_mark_from_the_room_here/ 01:51:58 armok, bit twiddling your arms 01:52:33 -!- conehead has joined. 02:01:12 limbs ^= 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF; 02:02:09 kmc: i think that is a trick hindu gods like to use on themselves. 02:11:05 zzo38: Write the compiler for the language in haskell? 02:11:15 limbs >>= 6; 02:11:25 FreeFull: what? 02:11:38 oh *reads further up* 02:11:40 kmc: playing with GMP? 02:11:45 nope 02:11:51 maybe I ought to 02:11:52 hmm 02:12:02 what are these limbs of which you speak then? 02:14:28 we could tell you, but it cost you an arm and a leg. 02:14:33 *+would 02:19:01 oh I get it "*colon*ialism" 02:25:20 that costs aleg? that's alot 02:26:39 kmc: i suggest daily brain stretching 02:27:17 FreeFull: That was in fact one of my ideas; actually, making a Haskell EDSL. However even then there are a few problems (which perhaps can be worked around, though): one is the slowness of a Haskell compiler/program, another is the syntax (although it can be worked around by creating a preprocessor), one is the inconvenience of declaring unique keys (the only way I know is Typeable, and having to declare a type and instance for each one can be inco 02:28:20 zzo38: Rather than making it an EDSL, you can make it a full-fledged language 02:30:58 FreeFull: Sure, but then I would need to implement nearly everything, and it could be done just as well in C too; I was going to embed ATLAST but not only does it not work but also seems a bit too klugy. 02:31:31 zzo38: Haskell has very good parser combinators and such though 02:31:48 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:31:57 I was also going to try to make it based on LYSP (a Lisp implementation), although that isn't designed to embed and it is difficult to work with a Lisp system. 02:32:17 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:32:54 Also Haskell has nice LLVM bindings 02:33:18 FreeFull: O, I know those things. Still, basing it on such programmable systems can provide macro capabilities more easily, too. 02:33:49 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:34:05 FreeFull: I have seen those (although have never used them), but it isn't relevant here; I am not trying to compile into LLVM. I am compiling into Frolg assembly language, which in turn compiles into Z-machine code. 02:34:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 02:34:42 -!- azaq23 has joined. 02:37:45 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:37:49 Oh, right, not native code 02:42:29 the native codes are REST-less 02:47:34 Has anyone else done text-adventure systems with Haskell? (whether it is native code or not) 02:50:16 someone has 02:50:22 @package ZMachine 02:50:23 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ZMachine 02:52:23 That is an interpreter; not a compiler though. 02:53:02 (It also may be defective; most Z-machine interpreters are.) 02:54:03 ah. well, just take the dual, as they say. 02:55:04 For one thing that won't work here; I was looking to see if anyone had text-adventure authoring systems in Haskell (whether EDSL or not, native or not), so that I may learn how it is done. 03:01:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:15:01 See http://ifwiki.org/index.php/Z-machine_Hacks for some mention of some of the kind of optimizations and tricks which could be performed. 03:29:13 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:34:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:43:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:53:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:26:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:44:24 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:44:50 -!- clog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:50:33 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:51:49 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:52:03 oerjan: I think fungot was just trying to figure out whether a semigroup was a monoid. 04:52:03 shachaf: who's viktor yushchenko? right?). compare the ambition with what guile is today. 04:52:11 hichaf. 04:52:16 Hike 04:53:15 Semigroups aren't very strong 04:53:43 oerjan: ("finally found the one") 05:28:17 -!- ssue___ has joined. 05:28:27 A game that I liked when I was younger (but wouldn't bother with now, it's just a version of breakout) apparently is by a company that is focused on "games for Christians" 05:28:27 http://tcrf.net/Blast_Thru 05:28:38 And was originally called Bibleball 05:28:39 * Sgeo blinks 05:28:56 I made a Christian pinball game once. 05:29:23 And I still can't find a list of powerups 05:29:45 bibleballs 05:31:50 v. painful condition 05:32:06 I won a game of Pokemon Card while I had only two cards remaining in my draw pile and opponent has zero (I also picked up my last side card on the same turn). 05:33:28 Hay! Why is his name written entirely hiragana on one screen, but on this screen it is partially in kanakana and partially in hiragana? 05:33:51 Whose name? 05:33:58 zzo38: Christian pinball game? 05:34:01 TOBICHAN 05:34:44 Sgeo: Yes I made one once in Visual Pinball, although it is an old version and only works in Windows (the game itself is open-source although Visual Pinball itself is MAME license) 05:34:57 In what way was it Christian? 05:35:24 Mainly the labels on everything. 05:35:58 Both the labels and some of the rules were suggested by a catechism teacher, and then I implemented it and put in a few other things to improve it. 05:38:02 The ball saver is labeled "Forgiveness", the outlanes are labeled "Sacrifice", the bumpers are labeled "Bible", "Mass", "Prayer", "Eucharist", and "Pennance", the extra ball light is labeled "Resurrection", the drop target banks are labeled "Advent", "Christmas", "Lent", and "Easter", and there are rollover targets in the form of the sign of the cross. 05:43:05 There is a mode display to tell you how many times each bumper and sign of cross has to be hit to advance. Once it is done, the next drop target bank is available; the drop targets won't drop unless the bank is the active mode. Once all banks are dropped, you get an extra ball. 05:44:09 I made it because someone else made a pagan pinball game; therefore I should make the Christian pinball game too. 05:44:33 And then someone else suggested, if we have pagan and Christian, then perhaps there should also be the Zen pinball game, and that one would be flipperless. 05:50:57 -!- asie has joined. 06:00:17 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 06:13:01 Someone once used the lack of Christ's second coming as an argument for the existence of other sapient life in the other solar systems. 06:16:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 06:18:30 -!- asie has joined. 06:19:51 Bruno? 06:20:17 I don't know. 06:21:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:33:09 I have read about catechism of Catholic church in a few different books. They say that atheism is a mortal sin, but then mortal sin is defined. There are a few variations in how it is presented, but using the three points in Wikipedia, atheism fails the second condition therefore it isn't a mortal sin, and that is contradictory! 06:34:14 "It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense (no one is considered ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are inborn as part of human knowledge, but these principles can be misunderstood in a particular context)" 06:34:18 That one? 06:34:31 zzo38: yes, organized religion is almost always inconsistent 06:34:38 Yes, that one. 06:35:00 i don't think atheism fails that, assuming you mean the looked-at-religion-and-said-nah kind of atheism 06:35:11 (Although I am not sure that the parenthetical comment there is correct, but I will consider it irrelevant for now) 06:35:56 Bike: It does; another part of the Catholic catechism says you cannot believe unless you really do believe; being forced to believe if you don't actually believe it is worthless. 06:36:30 I mean most atheists are pretty aware that if Catholics or whoever are right and the atheist is wrong, the atheist is goin to hell. 06:37:17 zzo38: makes life extra hard for inquisitors 06:40:53 Bike: Not necessarily, and anyways that doesn't make it right. (Furthermore, if you throw dice, it comes up even, and you have to say if it is even or odd, but they say they will cut your arm off if you say it is even, that doesn't make it odd.) 06:41:16 i have absolutely no idea what you are saying and it rules 06:42:41 There is also Pascal's wager (which is that believing in God is a good bet) and the atheist's wager (the reverse); my opinion is that both are invalid. (Also, these wagers won't make you believe or not, but that isn't relevant to their validity.) 06:44:04 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:46:48 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 06:47:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:47:44 However, I am not atheist; I am panendeist (and these beliefs have nothing to do with the wagers). However, I do not believe atheism to be a sin. I am also ignostic, so that doesn't make atheism necessarily wrong either; it is OK to be atheist if you want to, but please consider it correctly. 06:48:11 what if considering it correctly is a sin 06:49:32 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:49:34 Well, I don't think so. Whether you believe in God or not, you should think of it for yourself. 06:49:49 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:49:49 (Either way is OK, as far as I am concerned.) 06:53:05 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:53:15 The Catholic church also calls agnosticism a mortal sin. That certainly does not meet the second condition, though. 06:54:39 In some cases it might not even meet the third condition. 07:07:50 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 07:37:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:38:40 Did you make a poll in here in case you are atheist, panendeist, or whatever? 07:39:01 See how common it is in esoteric programming. 07:39:09 can i be a pandatheist 07:39:13 i believe in pandas 07:40:02 also hugs 07:40:03 I do not think that counts??? 07:40:53 zzo38: Did you read _The Little Prince_? 07:42:15 No, I haven't heard of it 07:42:36 Really? It's one of the most famous books. 07:43:09 I didn't know that. 07:43:35 Well, one of the best-selling, at least. 07:44:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books says so. 07:44:17 OK 07:46:18 shachaf, zzo38, have either of you read House of Leaves? 07:46:29 I have not. 07:46:48 I have n't. 07:47:27 i believe in a thing called love 07:47:41 It is good 07:47:50 A very interesting read 07:48:26 They're called leaves because they leave the trees in the fall. Which is why it's called fall. 07:50:19 But can you build a house out of them? 08:00:40 -!- asie has joined. 08:13:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:16:54 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:39:29 Anyone know a good algorithm for deciding the minimum nodes to remove from a graph such that it does not contain a certain graph as a subgraph? 08:40:08 Possibly specialized to a connected region of a grid 08:49:55 I don't know any such algorithm. What are you using this for? I would be interested to know such algorithm too. 08:51:12 zzo38, I am using it for a battleships AI 09:18:04 -!- carado has joined. 09:20:49 Not much science fiction on that list of books. 09:22:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:26:59 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:30:50 zzo38, what would that algorithm even be called 09:31:11 I don't know that either. 09:32:35 I thought of a way of doing it, but it relies on the subgraph isomorphism problem 09:33:12 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:40:51 I bet that algorithm is at the very least NP-complete, if not outside of NP 09:46:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:48:51 fungot is outside of NP. 09:48:51 Jafet: don't think this can be extremely helpful in debugging complex macros, but i think that extremes in this area 09:52:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:54:17 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:25:06 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 10:38:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:49:22 fungot: *You* are the extreme here. 10:49:22 fizzie: huh? fnord?) it works just fine on freedos, though. exceptions don't have to 10:54:05 -!- asie has joined. 10:56:46 -!- chairman has joined. 10:56:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 10:59:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:04:12 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:13:25 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:13:59 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 11:15:59 -!- asie has joined. 11:16:11 -!- asie has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:24:02 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 11:24:55 -!- asie has joined. 11:27:33 -!- Ghoul__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:28:28 -!- AwfulProgrammer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:32:24 -!- chairman has left. 11:33:23 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:44:43 -!- asie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:54:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 11:56:34 -!- clog has joined. 11:59:44 -!- asie has joined. 12:28:42 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 12:43:30 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 12:44:40 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:45:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:48:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:48:56 -!- asie has joined. 12:53:55 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:04:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:13:51 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 13:14:56 -!- asie has joined. 13:26:26 -!- AwfulProgrammer has joined. 13:27:04 -!- Ghoul__ has joined. 13:27:05 `welcome AwfulProgrammer 13:27:11 AwfulProgrammer: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:27:16 `welcome Ghoul__ 13:27:18 Ghoul__: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:37:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:38:06 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:46:15 -!- yorick has joined. 13:55:13 -!- wuhg1 has joined. 13:56:10 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:58:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:04:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:05:51 -!- wuhg1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:05:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 14:26:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:57:20 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 14:59:39 fizzie: I got the reverse DLL imports working on Windows 15:00:05 it's less flexible than in Linux; the difference is that on Windows, if you're importing a symbol, you need to know which executable or library you're importing it from 15:00:16 whereas on Linux, you just have dependencies and imported symbols and there doesn't need to be a correlation 15:01:11 but the technique I used is simpler than either yours or the one recommended by Microsoft: I just create an import library directly from each set of object files (which doesn't require their dependencies to be in place), followed by creating libraries/executables from the object files, linking against the import ibraries 15:01:16 *libraries 15:29:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:38:22 -!- asie has joined. 15:41:41 "checking how to print strings... printf" 15:41:52 now I'm scared as to why configure even thought of checking that 15:41:58 and what result it expected to find 15:42:12 I guess it might be shell printf rather than C printf, that'd be a little snaer 15:42:14 *saner 15:42:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:42:53 "checking how to print strings... print -r" says Google, so that sounds likely. 15:46:52 I'm compiling SDL2 from source 15:47:07 because it's not packaged yet 15:49:38 I dropped my glasses this afternoon and they bent and actually fit better now 15:52:12 Also, I'm tempted to start a "Taneb's crazy maths facts" blog 15:52:18 Need a short name for it 15:53:47 Phantom Hoover's crazy maths facts 15:54:33 Nah 15:54:54 I... I think I've just registered mathsfacts.tumblr.com 15:55:24 Taneb: because all the porn names were taken? 15:55:47 Yeah 15:56:29 Taneb, what does it MEAN 15:56:56 WHO KNOWS 15:57:45 i knew a guy who does a maths facts blo 15:57:46 g 15:57:54 perhaps you could crib some facts off him 15:58:05 Phantom_Hoover, I've got the first three or so sorted 15:59:20 what are they 15:59:37 Spoilers 15:59:42 Wait for me to upload them 15:59:44 One by one 16:00:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:01:34 `? tanebventions 16:01:36 Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, and Go. 16:01:56 I am quite prolific, it seems 16:02:11 I'm going to be talking about the torus in maybe the fourth or fifth post 16:02:23 what made you think of inventing an automatic squirrel feeder? 16:02:39 so the first three are D-modules, Go and automatic squirrel feeder math? 16:02:40 hmm… at my secondary school, there used to be a squirrel that lived inside the ceiling of the Library 16:02:52 oh what the fuck, chrome removed the 'previously closed tabs' button? 16:03:00 and sunbathed under the fluorescent light-bulbs from time to time 16:03:10 all so i could have a google search bar on the new tab page 16:03:24 you know, to go with the one that doubles for an address bar 16:03:26 the person in charge of the building used to catch it with traps baited with Bounty bars and release it in the nearby forest 16:03:31 but it tended to find its way back 16:04:07 (I live quite close to the edge of Birmingham, and the school I went to was even closer; you could find fields with cows in within a minute's walk from it) 16:04:27 wasn't there a time when google weren't pissing away all their goodwill trying to build a social media empire 16:05:45 yes 16:06:24 Taneb, STILL NO FACTS 16:06:36 Phantom_Hoover, I'M MAKING CUTE LITTLE GRAPHICS 16:06:46 GRAPHICS < FACTS 16:06:54 GRAPHICS + FACTS > FACTS 16:07:04 GRAPHICS > 0 16:07:09 THUS FAR THERE IS NEITHER 16:07:19 WAIT 16:07:24 BE PATIENT MY CHILD 16:17:20 I'm older than you you idiot 16:24:11 -!- asie has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:31:51 -!- asie has joined. 16:34:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:46:46 Phantom_Hoover: previously closed tabs are in the menu now 16:46:54 I just use Ctrl+Shift+T 16:49:51 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:50:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:56:13 elliott, what if i don't want the last one i closed... 17:11:30 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 17:14:30 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:14:48 -!- conehead has joined. 17:14:50 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:14:52 I think would be better address bar, that URLs entered are treated as relative by default; other commands entered there (such as search) start with a colon (no separate search bar is needed), and starting with :/ can abbreviate for file:/// 17:15:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:15:51 zzo38: normally if I want to open an HTML file on my own filesystem, I give it as an argument to the web browser 17:15:57 (And on Windows you can use a single letter and : to automatically expand to a file: URL, since no URI schemes have just one letter, I think; even if it is, using a letter and :\ can unambiguate it) 17:16:01 rather than entering it in the address bar 17:16:10 unless I'm using it often enough that it's worth bookmarking 17:16:12 ais523: Yes, but maybe it is already open 17:16:18 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:16:27 actually, my homepage on Epiphany is /tmp/t.html 17:16:41 which is the name I use for temporary HTML files that I've just generated from some other source 17:17:03 (I use too many different browsers, probably) 17:17:26 I use about:blank as the homepage 17:35:58 -!- asie has joined. 17:37:29 About the embeding programming language, well although ATLAST doesn't work I know that Pico-C works since I have used it before, so I can use that 17:37:31 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:47:27 /huge/ advantage for darcs over git: "darcs recor" is accepted, "git commi" isn't 17:49:47 We don't like git commies around here 17:50:08 I'm on the IWC forum for the first time inaaaaages 17:51:42 inaaaaages isn't here Taneb 17:56:20 Oh sorry, wrong channel 18:07:53 this train has a sign which says "PLEASE BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THESE SIGNS" 18:08:24 INTIMATELY FAMILIAR 18:08:30 carnally 18:09:40 kmc: there's something similar on the trains in the UK 18:10:02 i want to put stickers of cthulhu symbols and such on it 18:10:46 How can you understand to become familiar with the sign that says "PLEASE BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THESE SIGNS" if you don't know how to read English signs? 18:11:11 zzo38: you could ask someone to translate 18:11:22 I think all the signage on Caltrain is in English only 18:11:25 maybe some Spanish 18:11:40 VTA (Silicon Valley) light rail and buses have English, Spanish, and Vietnamese 18:12:04 oh, another git gripe: the command for staging a new file is the same command for staging changes to an existing file 18:12:18 you can generalize that to "every command does four unrelated things" 18:12:22 meaning that you can't use a tab-complete that only completes the names of new files 18:12:33 ah I hadn't thought of that drawback 18:27:09 TANEB i want some MATHS FACTS 18:28:03 SEVEN PLUS TWELVE IS NINETEEN 18:28:15 FORTY IS THE ONLY NUMBER WITH ITS LETTERS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER 18:28:33 FOUR IS THE ONLY NUMBER WHOSE NUMBER OF LETTERS IS ITSELF 18:29:08 A SQUARE NUMBER PLUS TWICE ITS SQUARE ROOT PLUS ONE IS THE NEXT SQUARE NUMBER 18:29:50 How is that for you, Phantom_Hoover 18:30:27 well the last is fun, the rest are shit 18:30:32 My nephew came up with a Korg Monotron patch that sounds like a fart and found it immensely hilarious. 18:31:59 that's fantastic 18:33:08 Phantom_Hoover, you didn't ask for /fun/ ones 18:34:00 They keep playing DEFENDER which turns out to be to *my* advantage. (I can also take advantage of opponent's resistance sometimes in similar way) 18:34:52 huh http://www.wps.com/J/codes/ claims that x^y for exponentiation comes from x↑y, ASCII 1963's ↑ having been replaced with ^ 18:35:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:35:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:38:46 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:41:04 git add --update, the guy which is now gone 18:42:19 Also, sounds like he needs a .gitignore 18:43:44 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:46:48 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 18:46:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:50:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:54:15 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 18:56:52 Hmm, I'm not happy with the voice I'm using for Lady Bracknell 18:57:46 hm? 18:58:37 reynir, I'm trying to do a one-man radio adaptation of The Importance Of Being Earnest 18:59:58 Lady Bracknell is a very... thingy character 19:00:02 Dameish 19:00:43 interesting project 19:02:18 for actual radio 19:03:31 Phantom_Hoover, scarily yes 19:04:28 -!- asie has joined. 19:11:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:13:32 -!- clog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:13:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 19:16:51 My gf's professor is claiming that interpreters read line-by-line, while compilers read all at once 19:17:19 that's a common place to draw a distinction 19:17:47 another one is whether they actually execute the code directly or turn it into some other representation 19:17:52 there's no single definition 19:18:57 almost every "interpreter" does some sort of preprocessing though 19:19:13 producing bytecode or at least a parsed syntax tree 19:19:34 though also, a lot of things that might be considered simple file format parsers can also be seen as interpreters, and maybe more of those are line-by-line? 19:19:50 it's really hard (and pointless) to draw a sharp line between interpreters and compilers 19:20:14 such is classes. 19:20:22 one definition is to say that a compiler should halt even given a program which doesn't halt 19:21:48 super compilers don't always, I think 19:22:07 And if there's no such thing as a program that doesn't halt in the language? 19:22:19 then you go back to "really hard (and pointless)"? 19:24:49 Sgeo__: AFAIK Pascal is specially designed so that the compiler only has to do one pass 19:24:56 C too 19:25:42 I still really want stageless Haskell, where you have something like (Typeable a) => Q Exp -> IO (Maybe a) available to compile Template Haskell ASTs at runtime 19:25:42 do any modern compilers actually do that 19:25:58 Q? 19:26:03 it's the Template Haskell monad. 19:26:53 catchy name 19:28:07 Bike: I don't think so, C compilers are mad about optimising as much as is possible 19:28:13 I think it's named after the Star Trek character 19:28:25 does TCC do more than one pass? and is it considered "modern" 19:28:26 -_- 19:28:34 and most importantly, when will someone write a Haskell compiler named THC 19:28:48 a good idea 19:29:02 I fear you are begging the question with your definition of "modern" (itt I go out of my way to use the phrase "begging the question" 'correctly', thus impeding linguistic progress) 19:29:40 oh i just meant like, not written for a PDP 19:35:11 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:46:32 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:50:41 Um 19:50:52 Has lambdabot gone insane, or is oerjan looking at my ? operator again 19:51:14 lambdabot: are you insane 19:52:04 "oerjan said 10m 22d 23h 20m 48s ago: You realize ? must have the property a ? (a+k) = a+(k+1) for all natural numbers k? (also you have to decide whether it should work left or right associatively," 19:52:09 10m 22d ago? 19:52:20 months, days 19:52:35 Oh, I was thinking minutes 19:52:42 Why is lambdabot just delivering this to me now? 19:53:19 maybe he sent it to sgeo__ and not sgeo, and you haven't been sgeo__ for a while 19:53:27 thank god we don't just use memoserv, huh 19:54:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:02:01 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:02:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:02:43 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:17:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:26:42 -!- clog has joined. 20:34:30 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:39:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:45:32 there's a co�p down the road from my new flat <-- mine too! 20:46:12 it's even newer than the flat 20:47:55 technically, down the pedestrian walkway across the railway crossing bridge. 20:48:53 * oerjan has had a membership card for many years. 20:49:47 also it's obviously not the same coop as in britain, although they did try to unite with the other nordic ones for a while, but i think they gave up on that. 20:52:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coop_Norden 20:53:04 There are all kind of coops. There's one in Switzerland and one in Italy too. 20:53:57 the norwegian one didn't used to be called coop until that nordic merger, but it didn't return the old name afterwards. 20:55:04 hm wait that's chronologically incorrect, they renamed 2 years before the merger. 20:55:21 Perhaps Phantom_Hoover was talking about, say, a chicken coop instead. 20:55:48 i don't think so, he wouldn't have called that socialist. or would he? 20:56:06 Oh, I didn't see that part. 20:56:21 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:56:38 chickens are instinctive marxists 20:57:11 i don't think a pecking order is a classless society, Phantom_Hoover 20:58:20 Also, you can use ctrl-shift-T repeatedly to get tabs farther back. 20:58:30 Then you can just re-close the ones you didn't want to re-open. 20:59:01 I knew that. 21:04:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:11:45 also, Phantom_Hoover and atehwa need to fix their encoding 21:12:44 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 21:12:54 `? nooodl 21:12:57 noooodl is the correct spelling 21:13:33 hœrjan 21:13:49 nooodl: why aren't you using extra o's instead of _'s 21:14:18 noooodl is reserved for my ipad! 21:14:25 ic. 21:14:40 There’s still plenty of space for more os. 21:14:40 just like ais523_ is reserved for wired connections, nowadays 21:14:57 What about nodl? 21:15:01 ndl 21:15:38 ndl is my three letter acronym thing i use in arcadey games and stuff 21:15:59 now that i think about it "ooo" would be a good one too 21:16:01 oh well at least you have a system. 21:16:22 my nick eventually condenses down to just the 5, under more and more character pressure 21:16:34 is that like http://responsiveurl.co.uk/responsive/dont/forget/url/ 21:17:53 i'm sometimes ^ on another irc server 21:18:36 is that the nooodliest character? 21:18:49 i would think ~ if not ~ 21:18:50 ~ is pretty noodley 21:18:59 ~ is noodlier :o 21:19:13 𝀈 21:19:25 ≈ 21:19:29 But what is the noodliest? 21:19:42 ∾ 21:19:54 ᔓ 21:19:57 ion: what was yours? 21:19:59 first one I mean 21:20:12 was it 'STEAMING BOWL' (U+1F35C) (also, eww) 21:20:20 kmc: U+1D008 21:20:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biangbiang_noodles#Unicode 21:20:51 `ord 𝀈 21:20:52 118792 21:21:00 麪 21:21:39 `file bin/ord 21:21:41 bin/ord: Bourne-Again shell script text executable 21:21:53 `cat bin/ord 21:21:55 ​#!/bin/bash \ echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { ord } split //, $_);' 21:22:23 also are you all excited for the newly released Unicode 6.3.0 http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.3.0/ 21:22:30 i know about this because I follow Unicode Consortium on twitter 21:22:51 there are five new characters: ARABIC LETTER MARK, LEFT-TO-RIGHT ISOLATE, RIGHT-TO-LEFT ISOLATE, FIRST STRONG ISOLATE, POP DIRECTIONAL ISOLATE 21:22:59 Does it add BLACK FROWNING FACE? 21:23:03 no :( 21:23:13 the main thing is they changed the bidi algorithm 21:23:34 they also added standardized variation sequences for all 1,002 CJK compatibility ideographs 21:23:38 whatever the hell that means 21:27:16 does POP DIRECTIONAL ISOLATE mean the algorithm is actually stack-based now 21:27:43 they already had POP DIRECTIONAL FORMATTING 21:27:52 hm 21:27:52 "terminates the effects of the last explicit code (either embedding or override) and restores the bidirectional state to what it was before that code was encountered" 21:28:06 "the maximum explicit depth is level 61" 21:28:18 so, any esolang based on the Unicode bidi algorithm? 21:28:38 61 is a lot of levels just to put letters in order 21:29:32 I wonder what ARABIC LETTER MARK is for and what happens if i put it by something that is not an ARABIC LETTER 21:30:24 kmc: you will be arrested by the U+1F89D UNICODE POLICE 21:30:42 kmc: then that symbol becomes absorbed into the Umma forever. 21:30:44 :D 21:31:35 sorry, *Ummah 21:31:57 at least it's better thank khadafy 21:31:59 I wonder if there has been any serious attempt to provide a simpler alternative to Unicode, from people who actually understand why Unicode is so complex 21:32:01 *than 21:33:02 there's probably no need because a) keeping the Universal Character Set would make sense in any case, and b) the other stuff (bidi, normalization, East Asian Width) gets "simplified" already by people just not bothering to implement it correctly 21:33:29 how about https://github.com/aheui/aheui.github.io/blob/master/_posts/2006-10-27-specification.en.markdown 21:34:28 awesome 21:34:51 both interpreter links are 404 tho :( 21:34:53 oerjan: I think fungot was just trying to figure out whether a semigroup was a monoid. <-- i do not remember what you refer to. 21:34:54 oerjan: wrote a perl-oneliner ( in the plt matcher? :p. 21:35:16 oerjan: That's why I clarified a couple of lines down. 21:35:37 shachaf: i _still_ don't remember. 21:35:47 kmc: go write one 21:36:11 eh 21:37:12 shachaf: now i checked, and i think you have confused me with olsner 21:37:12 btw I only know of one programming language which specifies a Unicode normalization form for identifiers etc. 21:37:26 since hangul characters have those separate parts, I think the language should use a different part of each letter depending on which direction the instruction pointer is traveling 21:37:41 23:23:17: apparently fungot "finally found the one", so I'm happy for 'em either way 21:37:41 shachaf: but i remember a submarine!! everybody out of the stated sample, a woodchuck would chuck no amount of money. if you 21:37:48 23:24:01: itt fungot admits to using cliches 21:37:48 shachaf: if you can 21:37:57 in other languages you can probably make distinct variables named "coöp" and "coöp" which could be fun 21:38:18 kmc: can't rust do that? 21:38:29 yeah Rust is the one language I am thinking of 21:38:29 shachaf: I don't remember the context for that 21:38:43 > let coöp = 1; coöp = 2 in coöp + coöp 21:38:44 :1:18: lexical error at character '\776' 21:38:46 lambdabot: h8r 21:38:46 shachaf: i don't think i was responding to the line you quoted. 21:38:48 source is normalized to NFKC 21:38:53 oerjan: OKAY 21:39:07 I haven't checked that rustc implements this rule properly 21:39:27 * kmc -> afk 21:40:13 kmc: is there a difference between rust the language and rust the thing rustc implements 21:51:13 They're called leaves because they leave the trees in the fall. Which is why it's called fall. <-- i don't seem to find confirmation of the first part. 21:51:34 kmc: Python identifiers are also normalized, as it's based on UAX #31 identifiers: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3131/ 21:52:48 Fall vs autumn 21:52:48 Go 21:52:52 oerjan: http://vidasegunda.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-favorite-season.html 21:54:14 shachaf: good, good. linguistics as referenced on wiktionary does not seem to agree, though. 21:55:46 imo linguistics as referenced on common decency doesn't agree with two spaces after a period 21:55:48 btw en:fall/autumn = no:høst = en:harvest (v imper.) 21:56:19 is = transitive? 21:56:25 no. 21:56:40 * impomatic is searching for the Simtel archive. There must be a mirror still online... 21:57:11 en:autumn = pl:jesień = en:autumn 21:57:13 Today you learned 21:57:20 it is, alas, my solemn fate to challenge the hangups of those who insist on one space after periods. 21:58:09 Clearly periods should have four spaces after them 21:58:17 And shouldn't be called periods 21:58:27 spaces should have four periods after them 21:58:53 ....yes 21:58:59 also no:vår means both en:spring and en:our but that's probably more of an accident. 21:59:03 Well, ....obey ....your ....own ....rules! 21:59:19 -!- ^v has joined. 21:59:46 the last two seasons are obvious cognates. 22:00:01 I wonder what the etymology of sv:skörd (= en:harvest) is, if the scandinavian languages don't agree 22:00:31 disagree on the word to use, I mean 22:01:29 Oh, from 'skära' (cut). That makes sense, I suppose. 22:02:39 Harvest originally comes from keirō, “to cut off” according to wiktionary 22:03:15 hmm, so harvest and skörd are cognates then? 22:03:29 Not necessarily 22:03:36 FreeFull: um that's not how you read that etymology. 22:03:44 Isn't keiro a cognate? 22:03:58 It's getting sort of early-autumny here -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130929-au.jpg <- that's taken today. 22:04:17 It seems to come from PG *harbistaz (meaning autumn/fall) 22:04:22 it's a cognate, but harvest no more comes from it than humans descend from modern monkeys. 22:05:38 So that makes harvest cognate with höst (and høst) 22:05:40 what if i do descend from modern monkeys 22:05:44 oerjan: Oh, I missed the middle of it 22:05:55 Harvest comes from kerp/skerp apparently 22:06:13 *kerp/*skerp I mean 22:07:45 while skörd would be from (s)ker- which is close but not exactly the same. maybe they're related even further back. 22:07:55 *+* 22:08:56 shachaf: if you say so. 22:09:09 It all gets fuzzier the further back you go in time 22:09:21 What if shachaf descends from modern monqis? 22:09:39 Who knows what what those ancient people spoke sounded like 22:09:40 mnoqy: is shachaf your son 22:09:57 um 22:10:36 mnoqy is not a modern monkey 22:10:40 or any other kind of monkey 22:10:43 why would you even say that 22:11:14 shachaf: ask FireFly 22:11:17 shachaf: What kind of monkey did you descend from? Spider monkey? 22:12:06 a monkey was bitten by a radioactive/genetically engineered/nanobot infested spider 22:12:52 a monqi once bit my sister 22:12:53 it now leaps from internet forum to internet forum using its powerful sticky web 22:13:04 oerjan: Actually, it was the other way around 22:13:08 The monkey bit the spider 22:13:20 shocking 22:13:56 mnoqy: you shouldn't stand for this 22:14:15 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:14:50 shachaf: i'm sorry, the monkey and mnoqy theories are entirely separate. linguists have been unable to determine with certainty which word applies, though 22:15:06 `? monkey 22:15:08 monkey? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:15:11 `? monqy 22:15:13 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 22:15:15 `? mnoqy 22:15:17 mnoqy used to be monqy before the earthquake. 22:15:59 `? monqi 22:16:01 monqi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:16:17 Clearly I didn't intend mnoqy to be dragged into this 22:23:13 `? FireFly 22:23:15 FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon. 22:24:16 `quote porn 22:24:21 26) pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. \ 49) Porn. There, see? \ 92) I am an inherently pornographic being. \ 111) reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays after all, 22:25:02 `quote taken.*porn 22:25:04 881) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 22:25:04 i don't get 49 or 92 22:25:34 you expect porn to make sense? 22:25:52 good point 22:26:26 quotes don't have to make sense to be in `quote 22:26:40 but there has to be some justification 22:27:08 `addquote I... I think I've just registered mathsfacts.tumblr.com Taneb: because all the porn names were taken? Yeah 22:27:12 1110) I... I think I've just registered mathsfacts.tumblr.com Taneb: because all the porn names were taken? Yeah 22:27:21 oerjan: good quote addition :) 22:28:38 just needed to check for the context first. 22:29:09 `quote tumblr 22:29:09 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:29:10 881) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people \ 1045) would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners \ 1110) I... I think I've just registered mathsfacts.tumblr.com Taneb: because all the porn names were 22:29:44 the porn quotes outnumber the tumblr quotes by quite a margin. 22:30:16 yes 22:30:26 mathsfacts.tumblr.com is empty 22:30:41 15:59:42: Wait for me to upload them 22:30:41 15:59:44: One by one 22:31:01 oh, wait, that quote is recent 22:31:04 in fact you just added it 22:31:08 just now 22:31:11 DUH 22:31:31 FUN FACT: that quote is quite recent 22:32:41 fun fact 0 = 1 22:34:02 fun fact 0 = -144 22:34:12 fun fact shachaf = ion 22:34:29 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 22:35:03 fun fact Z̢̨̺̟̝͙͍̤̦͖͍̤̮̳̗̭̣̣͋̉ͭ̑͑̃͋ͧͨͥͦͣ̾̇̓ͧ̔̈́̚Á̸̔ͤ͊̉ͭ͒ͪ̚҉̶̵͎͎͓̻͎͕͍̫̪͈ͅL͌̔̾̌ͬ͏̶̻̲̰̺͎͍̯͈̺͙͚̣̻̫̥͔Ǵ̛̅̃̾̈́ͮ̎̅҉̡͕̺̫̟̗́Ő̧̝̟̩͉͙̼̮͉̝̣͈̳͚̅͑̑̓͗̚̚͜͞ͅ 22:35:16 that fact wasn't very fun ion :( 22:35:19 wat 22:35:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:35:33 `ord _̣̣_͍̫̪͈_̫̥͔_̟̗_ 22:35:34 95 803 803 95 845 811 810 840 95 811 805 852 95 799 791 95 22:35:46 :) 22:35:50 mathsfacts.tumblr.com is empty 22:36:14 shachaf, oerjan, that's because maths makes no sense 22:36:21 also we need the reverse command of `unicode 22:36:30 Taneb: if i wanted sense i would have gone to mathssense.tumblr.com 22:36:34 Taneb: i went to mathsfacts.tumblr.com 22:36:37 Fair enough 22:36:38 Taneb: i demand maths facts 22:36:43 Taneb: have you given up blogging about it 22:36:49 oerjan, I have yet to begin 22:37:06 Taneb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khinchin%27s_constant is a p. good maths fact imo 22:37:07 I probably shouldn't have told anyone until I had one published 22:37:22 I think I prefer it this way 22:37:29 Taneb: TOO LATE 22:37:29 fun fact: most natural numbers have the digit 7. 22:37:33 how's the BF derivative tumblr getting along? 22:37:45 ion: and a large proportion start with 1 22:38:07 (whereas only one starts with 0) 22:38:33 I see what you did there. 22:39:18 I'd prefer to say what we write as "0" should be written "". 22:39:33 exactly _how_ large a proportion is tricky to define, though, i think. 22:39:59 oerjan, I think it's roughly 10% of them? 22:40:06 Taneb: it's more than 10% 22:40:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:40:32 Taneb: fraction which starts with 1 of {1, ..., n} does not converge. 22:40:34 Is it? Wow, that's a lot of numbers 22:40:35 although yeah, the exact amount depends heavily on what definitions you use 22:40:38 because it doesn't converge 22:40:59 I've seen figures as high as like 40% 22:41:29 I reiterate my statement: Wow, that's a lot of numbers 22:42:04 fun fact: the sum of all positive n^(−2) is π²/6 22:42:08 whenever n=999999999... it is close to 10%, but when n=199999... it will be close to 55% 22:42:08 there are a lot of numbers in general 22:42:21 i think those are the extremes 22:42:41 or wait 22:42:48 hmm, now I'm remembering what happened when the article on 0.999.... was featured on Wikipedia 22:42:50 ion, what's that in tau 22:42:58 not 10%, 11.1111...% 22:43:00 there was a flame war about whether it's equal to 1 or not all day on the Talk page 22:43:05 Taneb: tau squared over 24 22:43:05 and the other needs adjustment too 22:43:11 Right 22:44:39 converting between tau and pi is pretty easy, really 22:45:54 ais523: i expect that flame war did not end up with any useful citations for the "not equal" POV 22:45:57 Yeah, I'm just too tired right now 22:46:11 oerjan: I didn't read it 22:46:16 just got amused by its existence 22:46:41 ais523: failing at _both_ math and wikipedia policies, simultaneously? 22:46:48 *at understanding 22:46:58 ? 22:47:25 the people posting in that thread 22:47:54 there was a flame war about whether it's equal to 1 or not all day on the Talk page 22:48:00 how are there even arguments about that 22:48:25 Phantom_Hoover: I don't think it's productive to ask "how is it even possible that some people misunderstand X on the Internet", for any X 22:48:44 after seeing "how do u write uploader comments" in a YouTube comment, pretty much anything is possible 22:48:52 no but on wikipedia 22:49:26 Phantom_Hoover: which is just as publicly accessible as YouTube? 22:50:04 well surely wp's perspective is 'every academic agrees with this unless they're being a smartarse' 22:50:37 Phantom_Hoover: actually a common row on Wikipedia is "should you place more attention on the scientific/academic point of view because it's scientific/academic" 22:51:45 I wasn't involved in that, but several people cited issues related to that as the reason for leaving the site 22:52:29 I'm older than you you idiot <-- the years you've been insulting everyone don't count 22:52:45 so i assume you're about 11 or 12. 22:53:16 well not counting the years you weren't dumb you're like 7 22:53:54 that's pretty close, my dad estimates 8 22:54:19 Phantom_Hoover: why do you insult everyone 22:54:20 Phantom_Hoover, I thought you were a few months younger? 22:54:24 it's mostly just an unpleasant thing to do 22:54:25 (disclaimer: may not have measured the exact same thing) 22:54:31 Like it goes me --> you --> elliott 22:55:32 it might 22:55:35 (it does) 22:55:54 But you're weird (scottish) and went to uni too early 22:56:06 we're just more intellectually developed like that 22:56:09 Taneb: am i weird 22:56:34 shachaf, you're Finnish American which I assume is perfectly normal 22:56:43 the scots get an intellectual advantage by not bothering with things like politeness, maybe? 22:57:11 hey, I don't like seeing regulars insult each other 22:57:13 should i stop now, or ten minutes ago. 22:57:15 if you're enjoying the flame war, go on 22:57:20 but only if both of you are enjoying it 22:57:36 it mostly just seems like pointless posturing, though 23:04:37 FORTY IS THE ONLY NUMBER WITH ITS LETTERS IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER <-- COOL 23:04:53 (also what does it say about me that i checked this in my head) 23:04:55 That of course only applies in the english language 23:05:43 hey, I don't like seeing regulars insult each other 23:05:48 how does it work in Norwegian? 23:05:51 i'm not insulting anyone with any malice! 23:05:54 oerjan: that's not a maths fact :'( 23:06:40 Phantom_Hoover: I suspect a lot of people have stopped caring about your intent a long time ago. 23:07:11 ais523: 1 = en/ei/ett is the only example i can find, although curiously all genders work :) 23:07:38 Phantom_Hoover: that's why I asked you/oerjan to drop the subject, rather than treating you like you were actually being malicious 23:07:41 Oddly, in English "One" is in reverse alphabetical order 23:07:56 (also that's the only number which is gendered in norwegian, except combinations including it) 23:08:14 oerjan: I think the Hebrew for "four" is also the only number that's its own number of letters long. 23:08:18 One Thousand is the first number with an 'a' in it if you don't count the "and"s 23:08:19 coïncidence? 23:08:30 coin-cidence 23:08:39 yeah, good diaeresis 23:08:57 oh norwegian has several for that 2 = to, 3 = tre, 4 = fire 23:09:00 Taneb: one half? 23:09:12 oerjan: it should continue the pattern indefinitely >:( 23:09:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:09:33 ais523, first natural number, then 23:09:41 Counting from "zero" 23:09:50 Which I believe is the only number with a z in it 23:10:41 ais523: SORRY 23:10:46 What about twenty-zero and thirty-zero and so on? 23:10:53 zerteen? 23:11:09 `numberwang 0 23:11:11 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: numberwang: not found 23:11:14 !numberwang 0 23:11:21 "twenty-zero" sounds like a zzoism to me 23:11:25 I like "zerteen" 23:11:34 (well, I like zzoisms in general, but I wouldn't normally actually /use/ them) 23:11:47 The Zzo is Silent 23:11:52 -!- augur has joined. 23:12:15 ais523: zzoist 23:12:33 zzo38 uses them better than I do 23:13:08 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:14:35 `run quote zzo38 | shuf 23:14:38 859) Yes I am native English speaker, but it is Canadian English, not British English. \ 824) The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today. \ 1077) If you want to ask me if I believe in determinism then you have to be more specific. I haven't checked if I conduct electricity significantly better than 23:23:35 hmmm, does someone know of some article that could help me choose which type of self-balancing search tree is the best-suited for a task? 23:25:47 There is actually a maths fact now! 23:26:30 that's almost not a fact :'( 23:26:49 it's more like a definition of ... imo 23:27:52 It's a fact 23:28:02 Otherwise it wouldn't be on mathsfacts.tumblr.com 23:28:10 quid pro quo 23:28:45 Also do you know how hard it was to get that photo of the rice? 23:29:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:30:49 14 hard? 23:31:05 imo don't cry over spilled rice 23:31:17 -1/12 hard? 23:31:33 Taneb: rice more goes with the 1 + 2 + 4 + ... + 2^64 story, me thinks 23:32:00 oerjan, I didn't have any beans 23:32:13 But that was the allusion I was making 23:32:14 OKAY 23:32:42 also, 1 + 2 + 4 + ... = -1, obviously. 23:32:51 ==oerjan 23:33:02 shachaf, I had to pour the rice onto the table, take the picture, then pour the rice back into the jar! 23:33:12 At half 1 in the morning! 23:33:19 Wait 23:33:21 I've drifted 23:33:22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-adic_number 23:33:26 At half 12 in the morning! 23:33:33 6 in the morning? 23:33:41 Precisely! 23:48:06 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:49:44 -!- augur has joined. 23:50:51 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:57:15 Goodnight 23:57:45 night 23:57:48 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 2013-09-30: 00:13:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:13:54 -!- ssue___ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:14:07 -!- augur has joined. 00:22:30 oerjan's chessboard is 5×13 00:23:02 UM RIGHT 00:29:38 sounds like the perfect size for a chessboard 00:29:44 -!- kmc has set topic: Approved by the Postmaster General | PDF still available during construction work: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | the boily at the end of all things. 00:44:03 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:46:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:47:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:53:51 why does libpng have Y2K compliance notice dated 2012? 00:54:05 you'd think that by then, Y2K compliance issues would mostly have become obvious 00:54:08 "Y2K compliant as of January 112" 00:54:21 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:54:23 ++ 00:55:28 maybe they use the Islamic calendar and they're just being especially proactive 00:55:56 Maybe there's some sort of regulation thing that they want to conform to? 00:56:25 it's so that government time travel agencies sniffing around for software don't get scared off 00:57:05 Bike: did you read _The Little Prince_ 00:57:10 yea 00:57:32 it's good 00:58:27 yea 01:00:30 -!- Zuu has joined. 01:05:09 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:07:24 -!- azaq23 has joined. 02:09:33 -!- ssue___ has joined. 02:17:16 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:57 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:41:14 http://31.media.tumblr.com/dab7aa8bf8f038956f12899a2c004a35/tumblr_mr2z3uTZ2p1s5krz3o1_400.jpg 02:41:52 that is amazing 02:41:57 that is like something from http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/ [nsfw] 02:42:43 this site is extremely worrying kmc 02:42:51 i'm glad u think so 02:42:56 i think that means it's working 02:44:30 this site is a lot more nsfw than last time i looked -__- 02:48:49 DIFFICULT-TO-STRIP-TO HITS makes up for it 02:49:19 "The Fishin' Hole (Theme from the Andy Griffith Show)" 02:54:46 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:59:35 * Sgeo__ wonders what games have better soundtracks than gameplay 02:59:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:59:49 Games with a highly rated soundtrack but poorly reviewed gameplay 03:00:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:00:56 the film _Antitrust_ has a fantastic soundtrack but kind of meh plot and everything else 03:01:03 however I still enjoy watching it 03:01:30 what's it about, breaking up monopolies? 03:02:06 maybe it's a misspelling of Antirust. 03:02:15 or Antithrust. 03:03:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:03:26 it's about what if microsoft went around murdering open source developers to take their code 03:03:30 a conspiracy thriller of sorts 03:03:38 um, right. 03:04:37 definitely go with the soundtrack. 03:04:57 presumably "Antithrust" would be the porn parody 03:07:20 Oh, not actually Microsoft, just a company that is a blatant stand-in for Microsoft 03:07:35 right 03:08:13 Megahard, one hopes. 03:08:17 or is that in antithrust. 03:08:20 again, porn parody 03:08:21 yes 03:09:26 i can see that the trick is to make it _both_ a porn parody and an anti-megacorp satire 03:10:39 maybe it should be not a porn parody but just a genre parody with lots of dirty jokes, a la _Spaceballs_ 03:11:30 I watched Star Wars IV for the first time in August 03:11:43 apparently the danish translated Die Hard: With a Vengeance as Die Hard: Mega Hard. 03:11:43 It seemed... generic. I guess it wasn't back then 03:12:22 i don't think i've watched IV 03:14:29 Sgeo__: i _know_ i've seen the relevant tvtropes page. 03:15:09 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfunny 03:32:56 Games with a highly rated soundtrack but poorly reviewed gameplay ← Final Fantasy Mystic Quest 03:36:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:36:24 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:36:47 Oops it looks like the video is a bit fuzzy, that perhaps the timing is not synchronized correctly or something like that 03:37:42 Like the clock speed for the video is not precise enough. 03:37:52 Do you know how to fix this problem? 03:44:57 variable variable, e's our op, if e can't solve it, no one can 03:47:59 Sgeo__: hrm? 03:50:23 #wolfgame 03:52:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:53:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:20:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:35:17 In Pokemon Card, if your opponent tries to use NIGHTLY GARBAGE RUN and stall and stuff so that you run out of cards, well, one thing I did was pass until I had drawn the last remaining card and then play ITEMFINDER to retrieve GAMBLER and play that; I won with 30 cards in draw pile when opponent has none. 04:35:26 This is a kind of tactics that can be used. 04:36:57 zzo38: have you looked at Cardfight Vanguard? 04:37:09 Sgeo__: No; can you explain? 04:38:08 It's a CCG. Each player has 6 cards in play, one (for each) is the Vanguard, which they can upgrade. 6 damage to it loses the game. And, um, maybe I shouldn't try explaining everything over IRC 04:38:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardfight!!_Vanguard#Trading_card_game 04:40:24 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 04:40:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:40:57 -!- SgeoWeb has joined. 04:41:06 Was abruptly disconnected 04:41:11 In the situation, no cards ever got knocked out; they didn't have much cards that could do damage, and their cards were all resisted to mine (which was actually to my advantage; I could paralyze them without allowing them to switch) 04:41:12 The Web interface has a weird captcha 04:41:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:41:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:41:26 -!- SgeoWeb has quit (Client Quit). 04:42:23 That ws odd 04:44:13 -!- Tefaj has joined. 04:44:22 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:44:24 -!- salparot__ has joined. 04:45:07 -!- aloril_ has joined. 04:47:02 -!- yours_truly has joined. 04:49:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:36 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:36 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:36 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:36 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:36 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:37 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 04:49:37 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 04:52:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:53:49 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to Guest99891. 04:56:15 -!- Guest99891 has quit (*.net *.split). 05:02:01 -!- Guest99891 has joined. 05:02:27 -!- Guest99891 has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:15:49 My problem with the video seems to have fixed itself by now. 05:21:59 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 05:22:29 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 05:29:27 -!- yours_truly has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:52:26 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:20:51 American mahjong hands change every year just by printed cards. Another way to do something like that in a far more strange way may be like: http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56548#p56548 06:24:24 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:28:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:51 -!- fungot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:52:12 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:52:14 -!- fungot has joined. 07:02:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:29:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:34:21 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:37:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:38:16 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 07:38:23 -!- Bike has joined. 07:48:55 -!- S1 has joined. 07:55:31 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:59:02 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:01:49 -!- S1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:24:55 -!- S1 has joined. 08:32:45 anyone? 08:32:52 hi 08:34:58 -!- salparot__ has changed nick to olsner. 08:36:04 Does someone here program in INTERCAL? 08:38:56 I have done once. 08:39:00 I know some things about it. 08:39:06 What is it you need? 08:39:23 nothing special. Just asking. 08:39:35 Cause I read that paper ("F - Not funny") remember that? 08:39:44 Without a specific question, there is no answer. 08:40:47 thx captain obvious. 08:41:42 well actually you answered. Cause the only question I had was if someone programs in INTERCAL. 08:42:06 You can also find INTERCAL programs if you look. 08:42:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:44:44 cool. Where? 08:44:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 08:45:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:45:33 I think if you looked in the esolang wiki you might find the article about INTERCAL which links to some programs. I know Knuth wrote one INTERCAL program too. 08:46:46 aaah right.... forgot that... sry ^^ thx 09:01:18 -!- carado has joined. 09:01:37 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 09:01:45 -!- carado has joined. 09:02:24 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 09:08:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:11:23 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:47:12 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:49:57 -!- Tefaj has quit (Changing host). 09:49:57 -!- Tefaj has joined. 10:00:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:03:52 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:19:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:19:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:32:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:53:36 -!- carado has joined. 11:54:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:52 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:40:19 -!- yorick has joined. 13:00:43 -!- boily has joined. 13:02:59 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:17:04 -!- asie has joined. 13:20:55 `pastewisdom 13:20:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:24:42 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:27:16 -!- M_Biohazard has joined. 13:27:17 good orangignal morning! 13:27:21 `relcome M_Biohazard 13:27:24 Um... Hi... 13:27:25 ​M_Biohazard: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:27:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:28:48 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 13:28:52 http://pastebin.com/DfA0pmgG 13:30:21 .. 13:30:24 :( 13:30:42 :(? 13:30:57 Sorry, I'm kinda scared right now. 13:32:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:32:36 scared of? 13:32:50 I dunno. 13:32:59 I'm on IRC. 13:33:09 Don't use it very much. 13:33:46 @ask elliott did you get anywhere with your text diagrams library? 13:33:46 Consider it noted. 13:34:00 ... 13:34:24 I tried to make an esoteric programming language. 13:34:31 good! 13:35:50 ... 13:36:45 it's always good to esotericise. 13:37:55 M_Biohazard: it looks a lot like brainfuck 13:38:15 @messages-loud 13:38:15 oerjan said 1d 16h 49m 12s ago: the problem is, that's mutual recursion, which is a different joke. 13:38:25 I knew that. 13:38:56 Koen_, what I sent WAS brainfuck. 13:39:08 this would explain that 13:39:09 I'm talking about something different. 13:39:15 good! 13:39:26 care to share? :) 13:40:01 Sure. 13:40:35 I think it's quite rubbish right now, though 13:41:37 Uh, how do I send a .txt file to you? 13:43:48 -!- M_Biohazard has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:43:50 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:43:52 -!- Koen__ has joined. 13:45:27 -!- M_Biohazard has joined. 13:45:32 hello back 13:45:37 Right, http://pastebin.com/TEiYj72n 13:46:26 -!- Koen__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:44 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:47:22 ggggggggh 13:47:28 okay so 13:47:43 M_Biohazard: the "double-meaning" of all those operators is kinda strange 13:48:02 for instance I'd expect :( :( to be "subtract -1" 13:48:35 so :( :( :( would'n be -3, but 0 (because you subtract -1 from -1) 13:49:12 Yeah 13:49:18 what is an ofto? (can't ~duck, or I will incur the wrath of the Phantom) 13:49:24 OFTO 13:49:38 It's a smile 13:50:20 no. my monday-morning-uncaffeinated-brain can't parse the smile. 13:50:51 I suspect the O are eyes 13:51:08 Yup 13:51:18 Well, if you wanted to subtract something, use :( :) :) 13:51:40 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:51:48 Becuase :( :( would be "Subtract -1" 13:51:56 Which is just :) :) 13:52:03 yes 13:52:09 but you say ":) :) :)" is -3 13:52:31 What? 13:52:36 Oh, right 13:52:51 :( Either subtract (As :( :) :) :), "Subtract 3". Or like :), so :( is -1, and :( :( :( is -3 13:53:06 how do you make the distinction between "-3" and "subtract -1 from -1"? 13:53:22 also I see there's already a ;) operator for numbers 13:54:15 so I'd expect maybe ";) :( :( :(" to be -3, and ":( :( :(" alone to be "subtract -1 from -1" 13:54:21 or something 13:54:32 ;( ;(, not :( :( :( 13:54:40 what's the language you are talking about? 13:54:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:54:56 Something I made, Myname. 13:55:53 Meh, just stick with LOLCODE. 13:56:00 This is too confusing for me. 13:56:00 noooooooo 13:56:07 your language sounds interesting 13:56:18 for starters, it appears to be purely functional, which is good 13:56:22 nüüüüüü! there are smiles! (and an OFTO.) 13:57:14 IIf you think it's interesting, why not delop it yourselves? 13:57:28 I'm just a bored 11 year old. 13:58:51 well it's your language 13:59:01 but I might have suggestions! 13:59:13 Okay, Koen_. 13:59:30 Wait... 13:59:41 can't wait long, I have to go 14:00:06 but remember, functional is good! http://xkcd.com/1270/ 14:00:08 :( and :) are both numbers, :-( and :-) could be actual subtract and add commands. 14:00:37 hmmm 14:00:41 maybe 14:01:07 I like that + and 1 have the same keyword 14:01:26 Huh? 14:01:35 well, :) can mean either "1" or "add" 14:01:38 that's fun 14:01:49 you just have to make sure that it's unambiguous which is meant 14:02:00 That would be a bit hard, though 14:02:23 Koen, :) :) :) :) could be interpreted as 1+1 14:02:30 And not +3 14:02:30 you could have some type-chicking - for instance, if :) is applied to a number, then it's the function "add", but if it's used as the argument of a function that expects a number, then it's the number 1 14:03:11 also do you have some syntax for grouping / parenthesizing? 14:03:13 so you only have one variable? 14:03:48 so what does clear do? 14:03:54 what does it clear? 14:04:03 It's like CLS, Yorick. 14:04:18 :) :):) could be interpreted as "add one to one" (so 2) but :) :) [ :) :) :)] would be "add one to (add one to one)" which is 3 14:04:27 Is type-chicking used in stringly typed languages? 14:05:01 Taneb: yes, but it's done by the programmer when they don't forget to check. 14:05:23 what does "clear" have to do with the chinese sign language? 14:05:24 Why not... 14:05:40 * Koen_ just realizes he managed to misread an acronym 14:05:42 time to go, bye 14:05:55 Koen_: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ofto 14:06:03 :) ;) [:) :) :)] is "Add 3 14:06:16 That would be interesting. 14:06:22 yorick: that's not really explanatory is it 14:06:28 Koen_: I kno right 14:06:31 just think of it as a face 14:06:41 I'll try to do that 14:06:50 So ;) could be used after :) or :( 14:07:00 To define a number 14:07:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:07:55 xD 14:08:13 Code a Malbolge interpreter in Malbolge. 14:08:26 -!- carado has joined. 14:10:07 M_Biohazard: they had to bruteforce "hello, world" 14:10:19 Bruteforce? 14:10:40 try all the programs under a certain length until one printed hello, world 14:10:47 D: 14:10:56 Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... 14:12:11 also malbolge might not even be able to run itself because it's not turing complete 14:12:24 it's not? 14:12:28 i am disappoint! 14:12:38 myname: memory limits 14:13:05 -!- asie has joined. 14:13:11 myname: it only has 3^10 memory locations that each can hold a ten-digit ternary number (wtf :P) 14:13:18 what the heck is the FT in OFTO 14:13:26 it's a nose? 14:13:32 it's a plane? 14:13:44 Smile 14:13:51 O are eyes. 14:13:58 FT is a large smile 14:14:00 http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/guest4/JAD.jpg 14:14:34 OFTO 14:14:51 I really can't make out a smile 14:14:57 draw it in paint. 14:14:58 me neither 14:15:22 It looks like half of it is cut off 14:15:25 FT 14:15:36 oh i think i see it 14:15:40 But picture a semicircle under it 14:15:44 draw it in paint. 14:15:52 i'll draw it yeah 14:16:11 (ps does anyone know some way to quickly share drawings online) 14:16:29 the imgur app? 14:16:38 (the whole, "draw it in paint, save as png, upload to somewhere" thing is really annoying) 14:16:59 ideally it'd be like an image hosting site but it has a little applet you can draw crude diagrams in 14:17:45 I have a snapshot thing that puts things on dropbox and the link to it on my clipboard 14:18:53 http://i.imgur.com/xyjCQgj.png 14:19:20 ... 14:20:02 That's it, Noodl_. 14:20:03 OFꟻO ? 14:20:07 OUO makes more sense imo 14:20:20 OUO... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... 14:20:27 °U° 14:20:51 Whoever makes a IDE or Compiler or whatever, can make OUO whatever they want. 14:21:16 or maybe OEƎO 14:21:33 <¯v¯> 14:21:38 >.> 14:23:39 M_Biohazard: can you make more complicated examples? 14:23:55 (also would having just one variable really be useful?) 14:24:12 What do you mean 'Complicated'? 14:24:21 using things like repeat? 14:24:42 Okat. 14:24:47 and waht would you use ;) for? 14:26:58 Well, I'm thinking it could be used like ;) (Add) ;) [:) :) :)] 14:27:12 :) ;) [:) :) :)] 14:27:28 So ;) Would define a number 14:28:15 -!- conehead has joined. 14:42:24 Derp 14:44:43 Yorick? 14:44:49 http://pastebin.com/TiSGPZhf 14:45:55 so that prints random numbers up to 4? 14:46:20 Yeah 14:46:28 It gets smaller and smaller. 14:46:51 ah 14:49:01 GTG 14:49:03 -!- M_Biohazard has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:51:35 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:52:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:56:58 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:03:18 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:05:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:17:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:21:04 -!- Bike has joined. 15:32:14 -!- carado has joined. 15:35:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:48:54 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/aa432714(v=office.12).aspx I I just wow 15:49:05 I found this linked... it's... a tri-state logic with five values 15:49:14 but only two are valid? I don't even know 15:49:39 ah yeah that's a good one 15:50:32 http://threepanelsoul.com/2013/09/30/on-local-color/ also 15:51:06 is that like "hacker news: the comic" xD 15:59:57 -!- ski has joined. 16:19:58 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:20:05 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 16:28:56 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:57:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:58:44 -!- M_Biohazard has joined. 16:58:48 Hi. 17:00:28 ... 17:02:36 Hello? 17:05:11 Fiora, is this like true/false/filenotfound 17:05:59 I think it might be worse O_O 17:08:08 -!- augur has joined. 17:08:20 Hi, Augur. 17:10:11 ... 17:10:27 Fiora: what is "tri-state boolean value" even supposed to mean? 17:10:55 -!- Bike has joined. 17:10:55 It has, like, three states. Except, by three I mean two. 17:11:13 I I don't even know 17:11:54 Yes, No, Maybe 17:12:02 wow y'all are falling down on the job 17:12:06 `relcome M_Biohazard 17:12:10 ​M_Biohazard: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:12:26 Bike: I already `relcommed M_Biohazard :p 17:12:32 Oh, they hadn't been `*elcome'd? 17:13:18 boily: not since 16 o clock! 17:13:23 `relcome HackEgo 17:13:27 ​HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:14:22 @localtime Bike 17:14:23 Local time for Bike is Mon Sep 30 10:14:23 2013 17:14:51 codu time, codu time! 17:15:08 @localtime glogbackup 17:15:25 And.. there were no CTCP reply. :< 17:15:32 @localtime metasepia 17:15:33 Local time for metasepia is Mon Sep 30 13:15:33 EDT 2013 17:15:45 even my own bot answers CTCPes. 17:16:13 @localtime boily 17:16:13 Local time for boily is Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:16:13 -0400 17:17:49 @localtime M_Biohazard 17:17:50 Local time for M_Biohazard is Mon Sep 30 18:17:48 2013 17:18:01 @localtime lambdabot 17:18:01 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 17:19:20 lambdabot? 17:19:24 lambdabot. 17:19:52 Lambbot 17:21:01 dabot. 17:21:22 I wanna learn how to code in FiM++. 17:21:53 -!- ^v has joined. 17:38:28 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 17:41:27 -!- fizziew has joined. 17:46:07 -!- M_Biohazard has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:49:23 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 17:49:32 -!- fizziew has changed nick to fizzie. 17:53:41 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:56:44 netsplit? impending doom? apocalypse? why has fungot left? why? WHYYYYY??? 17:59:36 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:00:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:01:29 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:02:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:05:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:07:17 boily: maybe fizzie is broken 18:07:43 @tell fizzie are you broken? do you impend doom? 18:07:43 Consider it noted. 18:07:43 does it work to @tell fungot stuff? 18:07:53 @tell fungot can I tell you stuff? 18:07:53 Consider it noted. 18:07:57 olsner: we'll see. 18:10:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:16:19 boily: do you know why Roujo disappeared from #esoteric 18:19:05 nooodl: he didn't feel like he could contribute positively to the channel :( 18:21:02 -!- clog has joined. 18:22:54 Hey, neither can I but I'm here anyway 18:23:41 Why did itidus leave the channel> Why did cpressey leave the channel? Why did, I don't know, tiffany leave the channel? 18:23:52 there was a tiffany? 18:23:53 kmc scared them off 18:27:02 boily, maybe a bit before your time? 18:27:47 the only traces I have of the palæochannel are in the Quotes. I think I stumbled upon a tiffany or two in there... 18:28:22 Did you even meet itidus 18:28:43 I did. 18:28:52 (hm. apparently there aren't any tiffanies in the quotes.) 18:29:27 there are even graphes, but fizzie is broken, and I can't be assed to remember where on the intarwebs his webserver is. 18:30:14 z-something-something dot fi, I think 18:30:36 http://zem.fi/ 18:31:44 hmm, when did itidus leave? 18:32:22 `pastelogs zem.fi 18:32:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2957 18:33:13 nortti: fairly long time ago I think 18:33:27 a year? dunno 18:33:43 I think he was there... last week? 18:33:50 orly 18:33:57 his last msg in my logs is 2013/05/29 18:34:28 but that was really just a visit to say hi 18:34:30 oh, itidus, not nortti. 18:34:53 I think a fire alarm is happening, bbl 18:35:15 boily: nortti is here right now 18:36:31 before that, 2012/10/13 18:36:37 you didn't hear any facepalm. any reverberating sound is an audiollucination. 18:38:14 also, am I consisdered to have left the channel? 18:38:20 -!- CADD has joined. 18:39:24 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:41:39 Well, that was fun 18:47:47 "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd 18:48:37 `addquote "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd 18:48:41 1111) "Well, that was fun" -- Taneb "atriq" Ngevd 18:49:39 we're up to 1111? wooooah... 18:49:43 `pastequotes 18:49:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18673 18:50:58 Taneb: wow, that's a bad quote 18:51:01 why did you addquote that 18:51:14 Mostly to mess with boily's pdf 18:51:21 (in elliott's honour, that one about artificially inflating the concentration of djangoes and giraffes is not included.) 18:51:41 Taneb: continue like that, and I'll add you as a collaborator to the github repo. 18:51:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:52:32 I seem to be in too many channels 18:52:35 This morning my university gave me a pack including, among other things, some tic-tacs, some chocolate, and a condom 18:52:46 Taneb: in fact, as a preventive measure, you are now a conspirator. congratulations, you have full commit access. 18:52:58 If an actual person did that, I'd be confused and offended 18:53:08 are you offended by tic tacs 18:53:10 is that a github repo for the pdfwisdom? 18:53:10 well, tic tacs are great. 18:53:14 olsner: yup! 18:53:36 Bike, by that specific combination 18:53:43 reynir: who are you? were you `relcommed? do you like pulled pork sandwiches? 18:53:49 i'm not seeing the connection between chocolate and condoms 18:54:03 yes 18:54:06 boily: but https://github.com/poulet/ is empty? 18:54:15 that's not me. 18:54:28 Bike: one happens before, the other after. 18:54:54 olsner: by the way, what kind of thought process lead you to think that I'm a chicken on github??? 18:55:00 -!- reynir has left ("See you guys later"). 18:55:16 boily: because you say poulet so often 18:55:34 olsner: oh. my quit message. 18:56:02 no, I'm pfcuttle. the repo is at https://github.com/pfcuttle/wisdom. it is private. 18:56:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:57:21 olsner: are you simon brenner? 18:57:34 boily: it is possible 18:57:50 my github is fairly empty 18:58:28 there is haskell and assembly stuff, and it is fairly empty. I deduce that you are olsner. 18:59:25 I might actually move the rest of my assembly stuff onto github soon 19:02:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:14:28 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 19:14:35 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:16:34 @tell Taneb not yet 19:16:35 Consider it noted. 19:17:36 -!- clog has joined. 19:21:37 What is the best method for chombo penalties in mahjong? 19:22:13 zzo38: method? you mean, the amount that should be given? 19:22:54 boily: No, see http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53165 for what I mean. 19:25:18 oh. that's a very interesting thread. 19:25:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:27:02 I don't know if you have concluded like I have that there is something wrong with the tournament format. 19:27:31 (Such a format would still work on a computer though) 19:28:59 at our club, in a regular game, we apply chombo full force for important errors that would disrupt the game. for minor mistakes, like bumping the wall, it's a 1000 in the riichi pile. 19:29:11 in tournament games, it's chombo all the way. 19:30:01 one of our players went to european tournaments. he hates those from the EMA who enforce kuitan nashi :D 19:30:50 I don't like kuitan nashi either. 19:31:43 a strategically placed open tanyao against someone who obviously is going to score baiman or more is histerical. 19:32:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:33:35 Yes, and when you need 2 han to win, open tanyao becomes more difficult to make, so you still have part of the consequences of kuitan nashi in a few cases. 19:36:53 In discussing different mahjong variants, someone mentioned American, which changes every year (and is otherwise extremely different from other mahjong games, but I will ignore that for what follows). Did you see my idea of one that changes continuously based on the planets? 19:37:05 the first point Kyuu makes is important if you are in a ladder. for our last local tournaments, you played (approximatively) one game against each other member. 19:37:20 score depended on your end position. 19:37:55 Yes that is important in such a format. 19:38:07 therefore, regular chomboes work, as giving points to the other players only affect a single game. 19:38:30 I think I may have to subscribe to that forum, and throw in my two cents eventually. 19:38:44 Yes, I think a single game is a format that works better (although see the rest of the thread too). 19:38:52 (or at least 5¢, as we don't have any pennies anymore...) 19:39:11 I read it, and there are some extreme measures in there! 19:39:14 I mean, yakuman??? 19:39:28 The government doesn't make pennies anymore, and they are no longer required for payment, although we still have pennies (and I still use it) 19:39:59 Well, you can see the reasoning in those measures there, even though it seem strange 19:40:01 I have a bucket of them. they are gathering dust. 19:43:13 In a tournament format based on the total scores of each player to determine ranking in the tournament, any method seems unfair for some reason. 19:43:21 Does it look that way to you too? 19:44:02 well... I like the traditional chombo, but for situations where you could continue playing with one player tsumogirying... 19:44:22 aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening! 19:46:38 giving points to the opponents is very important if their position depends on their final scores. if tournament ranking is orthogonal to match points, then giving points is less relevant. 19:46:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:47:21 -!- nycs has joined. 19:51:01 Yes, and that is the kind of problems being mentioned. 19:51:37 cooool 19:51:40 i broke antichamber 19:51:57 zzo38: I'll have to discuss those matters with the other club members, if we're going to have any tournament next year. 19:52:10 Phantom_Hoover: what is an antichamber? 19:52:25 it's a crazy puzzle game 19:52:40 zzo38: by the way, any chance to have a joust between Vancouver and Montréal? 19:53:04 (feel free to replace Vancouver with whichever BC city you live in, as I couldn't really pinpoint where you come from.) 19:53:29 Phantom_Hoover: you shouldn't have said that. I don't have enough free time. 19:53:40 I am in Vancouver often enough, but I don't know how to have a joust between Vancouver and Montreal. 19:54:21 hmm... flying a whole mahjong club across the country ought to be expensive. 20:01:47 I once had a idea of some game that you cast a horoscope for the current time and place and then the positions of planets and houses and aspects and so on determines things in the rules of the game; the rules then change over time due to the planets, houses, and moon movement, and if in a moving vehicle, based on that too. What is your opinion of this kind of strange ideas? 20:02:48 I am way too tempted to try that than socially acceptable. 20:03:39 you're talking to a former nethack player. I miss having to take the moon phase into consideration in a game :D 20:04:21 Yes in this kind of game I have this idea of, the phase of the moon will be into consideration too. 20:11:38 I want to grow a bonsaï. 20:13:51 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:15:40 -!- ^v has joined. 20:20:37 -!- Bike has joined. 20:42:37 -!- carado has joined. 20:42:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:43:30 Phantom_Hoover: how'd you break it :o 20:43:37 (alt.: how can you tell) 20:43:46 well it crashed to desktop 20:43:52 ok i guess that's pretty clear yeah 20:44:03 you know how it fills in squares of blocks 20:44:36 well you can also fill in cubes, and if you're inside a cube when it fills in, it crashes 20:45:30 v. nice 20:56:55 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:06:05 -!- Guest36655 has joined. 21:06:22 boily: I am doing a thing. 21:06:28 Guest36655: hi! bonjour! 21:06:37 fizzie: uhm. what kind of thing? 21:06:49 boily: The thing involves a reorganization of hardware and that kind of stuff. 21:07:21 oh. good luck with your thing, then! 21:07:37 It might be that I'm going to have to go to sleep before a fungot. (Though I'm slightly unsure why it went down; it's on a separate machine.) 21:10:36 Oh, of course, it must've been the IPv6 tunnel. 21:12:46 -!- Guest36655 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:13:26 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:13:47 -!- azaq23 has joined. 21:15:51 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host). 21:15:51 -!- fizzie has joined. 21:17:04 I got it back online, but it's refusing to obey me because my username is nonstandard. 21:17:19 nonstandard? 21:17:37 they have spas at Aalto? 21:18:02 It has a "~htkallas" where a "fis" should be. 21:18:15 It's short for Signal Processing and Acoustics. 21:18:30 -!- fizzie has changed nick to fizziew. 21:18:50 -!- fizzie has joined. 21:18:55 I shall do it with this instead. 21:19:33 -!- fungot has joined. 21:20:13 fungot: oh hai! (and no damning my mother) 21:20:13 boily: maclisp cruft in r5rs, where it was from the us 21:24:14 http://ariya.github.io/css/spinningcube/ CSS is getting pretty powerful... 21:24:56 that is the work of a witch! CSS was never meant to be useful! 21:24:58 i'm just going to assume that loading my webpage would kill my computer. 21:25:19 (now I know where fungot drew AMICED from.) 21:25:19 boily: while loops and gotos are bad therefore loops with tail-recursion are bad? 21:25:37 fungot: tail-recursion is good. 21:25:38 boily: eye trackers track where your eyes look like? like a basic firewall problem. it's that simple. 21:26:55 fungot: of course I'd like to have a firewall if I'm wearing google glasses. 21:26:56 boily: if you just rearrange your arguments to a macro??? 21:27:06 fungot: only in the wisdom PDF. 21:28:15 kmc, the thing that scares me most about these things is that i can select the text 21:28:50 yeah 21:29:16 I mean each side of the cube can be arbitrary HTML content 21:30:46 remember when people thought it was really cool that you could run a compositing window manager and put a different window on each side of a spinning cube 21:30:49 well the browser is the compositing window manager of the future 21:31:53 i look forward to whatever system we use inside the browser that grows to take on its role 21:32:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:32:25 facebook, maybe. people still use facebook, right 21:33:12 imagine... four revolutions of the facebook CSS composited cube at the same time... 21:33:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:36:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:40:17 yeah that's the scary thing 21:40:21 Facebook really does want to replace the Web 21:40:25 I don't think they'll succeed though 21:41:08 i see kmc is a google+ pusher 21:41:18 lool 21:41:33 I bet there's some cool open source Mozilla federated social network project that I'm supposed to be pushing 21:41:53 how does federation work 21:42:00 insert star trek joke 21:42:19 today while eating at a franchise of a large chain i was wondering if you could break the management structure up more so it'd be less uniform 21:43:12 somebody in this lab just explained if/else. described as "very powerful". it's true 21:43:42 elaborate re: management? 21:44:18 oh, just like, franchises are managed from above i assume, they coordinate different menu changes and such so it's uniform across franchises 21:45:00 that's the second anamanaguchi PV I watch. didn't make sense, like the first one. 21:45:02 i was just imagining it not being quite so uniform. like the coordinator for franchises in my state uses a slightly different menu from the one in california (i suppose they might do that already) 21:45:10 menus do vary regionally yes 21:45:13 I don't know how much that's coordinated 21:45:24 there's a systems biology course this year 21:45:29 I don't understand facebook, much less google+. what are their purpose? how do they work? 21:45:32 take iiiiiit 21:45:37 it sounds interesting but i am afraid i will become Bike if i take it 21:45:47 good news, i haven't done anything in systems biology yet 21:45:48 nice, the reason lwip didn't put any source/destination address in my ethernet packets was that memcpy was broken 21:45:48 Phantom__Hoover: nah. it's biology, you can't become a Bike. 21:45:49 fast food franchises seem to be pretty uniform but other things less so 21:46:02 it pretty much worked as long as you only called it once per function 21:46:35 like there are a bunch of hardware stores in the US branded as "Ace Hardware" but they use that branding alongside some store specific branding, and they vary a lot in appearance, how things are organized, etc. 21:46:41 but apparently "it is a co-op and not a franchise" 21:46:49 ooh, that's interesting 21:47:03 is each store a co-op which independently negotiates with the rest? 21:47:23 a "retailers' cooperative" which is a different thing from a "consumers' cooperative" i.e. hippie grocery store? 21:47:28 I don't know 21:47:44 i don't know either. the only co-op i'm familiar with is one around my hometown that sells farm supplies. 21:47:50 it might be that "Ace Hardware" is effectively just a hardware store supplier 21:48:00 which does some branding in order to promote its clients 21:51:07 http://goo.gl/maps/NUras 21:51:49 kmc: does the street view concord to your version of ace hardware? 21:52:14 oui 21:52:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:52:47 yup, that's definitely it. 21:53:02 is "quincallerie" the translation for "hardware"? 21:53:05 hmm… I found a 3-valued boolean in the ncursesw API 21:53:30 those things crop up in all sorts of places 21:53:46 imo we should use four-valued booleans, because that's the best kind of logic 21:54:04 Bike: a «quincaillerie» is a hardware shop. 21:54:21 ah 21:55:36 Bike: nah, nine-valued booleans are where it's at 21:55:55 what are the values 21:55:57 01LHZWXU- 21:56:07 oh, lectricity 21:56:07 -? 21:56:21 actually, maybe not - 21:56:27 ¬, then? 21:56:30 I nearly always forget one 21:56:45 if it is -, it means an irrelevant value 21:56:52 like "skip" in Algol 68 21:57:03 used to work with a codebase that had distinct enums with YES/NO/MAYBE, XY_TRUE/XY_FALSE/XY_FILE_NOT_FOUND (+ all other possible error codes) *and* TRUE/FALSE 21:57:25 olsner: having FILE_NOT_FOUND in there somewhere is traditional for a multivalued boolean 21:57:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:59:15 happy australian mailman reminder's day! 21:59:37 olsner: O_O 21:59:41 (just in the last minute, too) 22:00:10 XY_TRUE, XX_TRUE, X0_TRUE 22:00:34 XY was just an arbitrary prefix so it doesn't conflict with normal booleans 22:00:42 ais523: it used to be that in Rust you could write "2u8 as bool" and this would give a bool that compares unequal to both true and false 22:00:45 oerjan: why the apostrophe? 22:01:02 kmc: in Perl 6, you can write "true but False" and have a bool that's like true in every way, except that it's false 22:01:08 e.g. it stringifies to "true" 22:01:16 omg 22:01:21 ais523: i only got an apostrophe wrong? that's better than expected! 22:01:26 the Rust thing was a bug; that's just perverse ;P 22:01:52 oerjan: well elliott insists on writing it as "australian mailman mailing list reminders day", but nobody else cares 22:01:57 that's worse than "0 but true" 22:02:04 kmc: it's the replacement for "0 but true" 22:02:28 we lost our australian. 22:02:38 ripidus 22:02:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:02:53 what does the 'but' operator do? 22:02:54 ais523: it's actually "Australian mailman mailing list memberships reminder(s) day", in full 22:03:01 elliott: right 22:03:08 olsner: it applies a mixin to an object 22:03:37 elliott: now get wikipedia to acknowledge it on the front page 22:03:56 ah yes, Wikipedia politics, my true calling. 22:04:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v elliott. 22:04:10 tired of having voice when nothing I say is interesting 22:04:40 :( 22:04:56 you are interesting 22:05:00 I think you can make somelike "true but False" in the other way around, in JavaScript, at least, making false into a object will be true even though it is string to "false" and so on, is other way around 22:05:31 zzo38: huh right, that would work 22:06:00 crap, what does one do as an op when someone's IRC client is rapidly connecting and disconnecting, producing lots of join/quit spam 22:06:03 elliott, what even is this thing 22:06:15 kmc: in #haskell we tempban with a redirect to ##fixyourconnection 22:06:19 how do I do that 22:06:26 kmc: You could filter them out on the client side I suppose 22:06:31 kmc: on freenode? 22:06:39 no, on Mozilla IRC 22:06:43 no clue 22:06:44 but it might be the same 22:06:53 well how do you do it on freenode B| 22:06:55 appending $##fixyourconnection to the ban is how you do it on freenode 22:06:58 k 22:07:05 but I think maybe redirects are a separate mode on some ircds and stuff? 22:07:23 we're running Unreal ircd 22:07:31 kmc: yeah, the usual response to join spam is a short ban 22:07:33 * kmc r's the f m 22:07:33 also ##fixyourconnection exists on freenode and probably not on mozilla irc 22:07:38 elliott: it doesn't have to exist 22:07:42 elliott: sure, I can join it tho :D 22:07:52 it just has to not be already in use for some other purpose 22:08:02 banishing people to a channel with only kmc in it 22:08:02 although, on Freenode, it probably has a mode set allowing anyone to redirect people to it 22:08:04 very harsh :P 22:08:29 elliott: that's some twilight zone shit 22:09:01 I have written a lot more about HWPL and removed and changed a few things I already had before, too 22:09:06 he complains to you about haskellers and programmers living in california until you fix your connectio 22:09:07 *n 22:09:16 The RAM and MUX and DEMUX commands are removed, for one 22:09:42 do i say interesting things 22:10:02 probably 22:10:14 if you're interested in molkky, definitely 22:13:39 Phantom__Hoover: http://rationality.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bay-Area-memespace1.jpg 22:13:53 i played mölkky with kmc and Gracenotes 22:14:02 and also douglass_ but she's not in this channel 22:14:50 is this a lass by the name of doug 22:14:52 kmc, this seems sill 22:14:54 *y 22:14:56 it is 22:14:57 circumstantial evidence tends to point to the fact that people from #esoteric meeting IRL don't cause the universe to implode. 22:15:00 what is it with me and terminal characters 22:15:05 and it's not a map of memes, it's a map of community self-images 22:16:01 Phantom__Hoover: you have a terminal disorder 22:16:11 :D 22:16:15 wait 22:16:16 D: 22:16:17 -!- Bike has joined. 22:16:32 kmc: this image makes me want to set fire to san francisco ;_; 22:16:44 the newline should come _after_ the other character, you see. 22:16:54 elliott: ok just give me 48 hours notice 22:17:11 kmc, are the trains really that slow 22:17:15 please, no setting major cities (or even minor cities) on fire 22:17:27 san francisco's been on fire before! it'll be fine 22:17:28 we'll burn them and we'll damn them 22:18:35 yeah in the 1850s the city would burn down like every other week http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/fire.html 22:18:52 that's why we now have triple redundant firefighting water supplies 22:19:26 because fires tend to destroy a maximum of two water supplies? 22:19:28 every time I look at this image I find something newly upsetting in it 22:20:06 the salesperson was quite clear that doubly-redundant systems are quote for suckas endquote 22:20:40 there's the city water supply, and then there's a whole separate network of high pressure pipes just for fighting fires 22:20:51 the latter can be pumped with saltwater from the bay if the reservoirs are destroyed 22:20:58 this image that's causing pyrmoania is fucking amazing. 22:21:03 and then there are also hundreds of isolated cisterns under the streets 22:21:24 Computer Scientists -> Bayesian epistemology -> Effective Altruists 22:21:25 oh dear, the systems biology module has differential equations as a prerequisite 22:21:28 that's a bad sign 22:21:49 Frisco is now fireproof, but is it alienproof? 22:21:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:21:52 is it time for me to tell phantom about turing's working on differential equations for modeling developmental systems 22:21:53 the cisterns are marked with big red brick circles so that the fire department can find them even if they're drunk, which they frequently are http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/SF-firefighter-could-face-DUI-hit-run-case-4641434.php 22:22:01 boily, yes, it was clearly designed by the ramans 22:22:12 Bike, i know, and i can never truly forgive him 22:22:17 darn. and I guess it is waterproof, too? 22:22:22 Hacker culture -> With cleverness, we can do better than establishment institutions -> Quanitified self 22:22:31 Hacker culture -> Life-hacking -> Rationalists 22:23:18 it's got some good points, though. like "LGBTQ culture" being on the other side of the map from "Respect people for what they create" 22:23:29 ;_; 22:23:34 :D 22:23:53 also people need to stop giving SF all the credit for the 60s counterculture, LGBTQ rights, etc 22:24:06 woodstock was in SF right 22:24:12 no, upstate new york 22:24:16 stonewall riots were in NYC 22:24:41 i guess i forgot that in addition to being how i joke it's also how i talk normally 22:25:01 and the most enduring effects of 60s youth protest were in the South 22:25:03 namely civil rights 22:25:18 nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 22:25:26 i was thinking the other day about the absurdity of describing Burning Man as a "counterculture event" given that it's thoroughly mainstream among the tech elite who largely control the world 22:26:02 kmc: isn't... um.... what's it called 22:26:05 SXSW something like that too? 22:26:19 I haven't heard anyone label SXSW as "counterculture" 22:26:27 probably someone has tho 22:26:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:36 in this wide and wonderful world 22:26:37 (I still dont understand what it is though? except that like hipstery people talk about it) 22:26:43 kmc: it's culture among those who count, right? 22:26:43 i think it has music? 22:26:57 SXSW: homeless wifi spots and also I guess a lot of bands?? 22:27:02 it's a combination art/music festival and startup demo convention 22:27:04 for some reason 22:27:05 -!- azaq231 has joined. 22:27:07 I think the latter kind of ate the former 22:27:17 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:27:20 i only know it from jwz, who mostly talks about the bands 22:27:30 anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity 22:27:59 I'd like to see kmc and jwz complain about things together 22:28:21 lol 22:28:26 he'd probably hate me 22:28:46 I think he's sick of nerds who only know about his nightclub for nerdy things 22:28:50 `addquote anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity 22:28:52 as it happens I don't give a shit about industrial music 22:28:57 1112) anyway getting naked and high in the desert doesn't make you a rebel, as much as I enjoy this activity 22:29:00 oerjan: I was going to addquote that too 22:29:07 except I'd be less sure about it 22:29:20 i don't share much music taste with jwz either, lol. 22:29:29 like, I tend to be the sort of person who soul-searches and then asks permission, before adding a quote 22:29:32 (except for the rez soundtrack, inexplicably) 22:29:32 do you like... secretly know jwz personally, or something? 22:29:41 pff no 22:29:50 also, <3 rez 22:29:54 music is like half the content of his blog is all 22:29:56 23:29:29 like, I tend to be the sort of person who soul-searches and then asks permission, before adding a quote 22:29:57 is rez the vibrator game 22:29:59 23:28:14 should i `addquote kmc or not 22:30:03 rez is the vibrator game. 22:30:27 my soul services are available free of charge 22:30:33 elliott: hey, just because I soul-search and ask permission before adding a quote doesn't mean oerjan doesn't too :) 22:30:41 Bike: surely there's more than one by now 22:30:43 binary soul-search 22:31:20 kmc: a while ago i was looking at a teledildonics company's site actually. everything was super straightforward and it didn't use the term "teledildonics" so i think that means it's mainstream now. 22:31:38 okay 22:32:09 Bike: I think they're marketing at people who don't already know what it is 22:32:43 probably. it was pretty straightforward, just linked dildos and, uh, i forget what you call the ones for dicks 22:32:49 Bike: my friend works for a hardware startup and can't tell me what they do, but I've decided (and successfully convinced others) that it must be Android-powered cock rings 22:33:02 > logBase 2 7000000000 22:33:03 32.70470777604387 22:33:09 i admit that i don't really know what cock rings are for or why they would be powered. 22:33:36 iirc they constrict bloodflow to allow one to maintain an erection better 22:33:41 they're a ring on a cock, what do they sound like 22:33:43 not gonna double check that while I'm at work 22:33:46 oh. that's pretty clever. 22:33:55 They aren't very comfortable 22:33:56 it's scary :( 22:33:59 "i can't look them up, but speculating at work is okay" 22:34:26 I think kmc's explanations here are consistent with the typical superficial NSFW restrictions that most employers use 22:34:51 they need to go deeper 22:34:59 the text on my screen is pretty hard to read from a distance 22:35:26 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:35:39 at Folsom Street Fair i saw a naked guy with a rubber tail coming out of his butt (presumably attached to a plug) 22:36:05 kmc: you could use the fake terminal I wrote recently, before I implemented fonts 22:36:06 that sounds entirely normal for folsom 22:36:11 it was pretty cute 22:36:13 it went and rendered all characters the same way 22:36:19 thus it was impossible to read the text at any different 22:36:24 *any distance 22:36:30 Phantom__Hoover: on special occasions yes 22:36:35 it was quite hard to play NetHack like that, I had to go on the color 22:36:44 I bike to work on Folsom St. every day and I haven't seen this any other time of year... 22:37:04 -_- 22:38:28 wat, the coop sent me membership savings coupons and 3 of them are for specific foodstuffs i actually buy regularly 22:38:35 they're watching you 22:39:36 i suppose it's _possible_ they actually do that, although i doubt they can afford the printing of separate coupon sets for every single member 22:41:00 oerjan: they probably sent them on the foodstuffs that are most commonly bought 22:41:09 quite likely. 22:41:10 things that you buy often are probably also bought often by other people 22:41:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:45:24 hm or wait 22:46:26 it _is_ printed separately. the sheet has my name on it in two different places. 22:46:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:49:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Not poulet, for once!). 22:49:15 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:25 oh there it says in small print that they're actually doing it 22:52:35 I haven't been to DNA Lounge but I have been to DNA Pizza 22:52:38 mystery (dis)solved 22:53:11 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:53:35 There was that story about Target's automated data analysis sending ads of baby stuff to someone, and her father being all "She's still in high school, and you're sending her coupons for baby clothes and cribs? Are you trying to encourage her to get pregnant?" and it turned out his daughter was in fact pregnant, he just didn't know. 22:53:52 But the data miners, they know. 22:54:08 "But it's too late. I've seen everything." 22:54:15 was the pizza good 22:54:25 Bike: it was a'ight 22:54:31 cost way too much tho 22:54:36 aw 22:56:42 fizziew: i just realized this is another proof i am old :( 22:57:00 thinking this couldn't be possible 22:57:28 amazon has very much figured out what games I like 22:57:49 "new for you: etrian odyssey untold: the millenium girl, hakuoki: memories of the shinsengumi" 22:58:11 Fiora: not finding out, but bothering to print and mail individual paper ads and expect to make a profit doing so 22:58:35 *individualized 22:58:59 "tales of xillia, shin megami tensei 4, final fantasy X/X-2 HD, pandora's tower, golden sun: dark dawn, tales of symphonia chronicles" their recommendations are scary good 22:59:23 Classy taste. 22:59:31 amazon still thinks i really want to read Beats. 22:59:39 (that's the top 8, like, I didn't even omit any) 22:59:46 * pikhq_ def looks forward to FFX HD 22:59:54 oh cool. it even lets you tell it what things you don't want, or already own 23:00:23 "Tales of Xillia - Recommended because you purchased Sweet Fuse: At Your Side w/Pre order bonus - Sony PSP" // how does this work 23:00:51 the "because you purchased" things probably oversimplify a lot 23:01:05 yeah. also wow I own like 5 of the things on their recommendation list xD 23:01:18 though i don't think "girly VN -> another tales of game" is too hard a conclusion!! 23:02:28 is there a way to use Amazon's recommendation engine to decide what to buy a friend as a gift 23:02:31 that'd be pretty cool 23:02:33 just put in stuff I know they have 23:02:55 kmc: you could try going onto a temporary profile, and looking at all the stuff you know they have 23:03:01 and hoping their adverts system picks up on it 23:03:02 Fiora: does it make a distinction between "i own this and i liked it" and "i own this but only because someone had the bad sense of giving it as a present"? 23:03:12 i could buy it all and then cancel within 30 min >_> 23:03:20 fizziew: are you the wchar_t version of fizzie? 23:03:27 I think you can set it up to let other people see your recommendations and such 23:04:32 oerjan: you can remove something from your "owned" list if you don't want it to apply to your recommendations 23:04:38 amazon lets you manage everything, I think 23:04:39 http://www.amazon.com/gp/betterizer ah, hm... 23:05:30 this is all reminding me that my Izhikevich hasn't arrived yet. you jerks. 23:06:12 * Fiora finds ar tonelico on the "recommendations" list and carefully throws it into an ocean trench 23:06:41 No, I think that would be wfizzie instead. 23:07:42 Or FizzieWExLawlICantBelieveThisIsHowWindowsNamesShit on Win32. 23:08:34 FizzieA and FizzieW, for the "ANSI" and "wide" fizzies. 23:09:04 i'm imagining disposing of some radioactive waste into a trench carefully just so that it doesn't get caught on the sid eor soething 23:09:35 ah yes the famous character encoding "ANSI" 23:09:58 -!- ^v has joined. 23:11:05 kmc: just call it windows-1252 23:11:08 like everyone else does 23:11:38 Windows has done more to hurt understanding of character sets than anything else... 23:12:03 the great thing is that on the Web you can call it "ASCII", "iso8859-1", or "latin1" and that still means Windows-1252 23:12:06 http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/ 23:12:10 I mean, seriously, "ANSI" for legacy charsets, "OEM" for still-older legacy charsets, and "Unicode" for UTF-16LE? 23:12:41 and not actually UTF16 / Unicode either, right? I mean I think a lot of those APIs will do the wrong thing with surrogate code units 23:12:51 the Web does :( 23:13:33 'FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR' (U+00AA) is a strangely named character 23:14:56 pikhq_: yeah, what the fuck 23:14:59 why LE, especially 23:15:06 why the fuck does *anyone* do *anything* in LE 23:15:14 x86. :) 23:15:21 pikhq_: that is not a reason 23:15:25 not just x86 but almost every architecture still in wide use 23:15:43 Actually, yeah, pretty much all the BE stuff is either obscure or dead. 23:15:50 the cool architectures let you specify endianness per page 23:16:01 kmc: is it a superscript a ? 23:16:04 oh wait 23:16:07 oerjan: with a line under it yeah 23:16:13 am I mixing up big and little again 23:16:18 I remember LE has that nice little bit where accessing some variable in memory gives the same value no matter the size of the data type, I think? 23:16:25 like, since the low byte is always the low byte 23:16:30 kmc: that fits for some romance languages, at least 23:16:33 yes I am 23:16:35 nvm 23:16:37 BE is the sane one 23:16:48 oerjan: yeah; it still seems like the wrong level on which to describe the character 23:16:52 but i'm not like, a character expert 23:17:03 little endian is the correct one <_< 23:17:10 err YES THAT 23:17:11 FUCK 23:17:16 IMA GO CRY NOW 23:17:19 :( 23:17:22 * kmc hugs coppro ? 23:17:26 * coppro hugs back 23:17:26 there are very few reasons to go with either 23:17:27 kmc: are you of good moral character 23:17:29 the best part of 'endian' is the etymology. 23:17:30 Fiora: you could argue that big endian is better because you can "drop precision" 23:17:32 shachaf: yes. 23:17:33 shachaf: who wants to know 23:17:34 shachaf: he hugged me 23:17:36 by ignoring the less significant bits 23:17:41 which is why LE is probably a better choice because there's at least one minorish reason to go with that 23:17:53 elliott: that assumes that the variable is a fixedpoint in the range 0 to 1 23:17:54 BE is better since it's what we humans use 23:18:07 Fiora: like, the dual of what you get with ignoring the rest of the bits with little endian 23:18:13 those aren't very common, but when they are used, BE would arguably be better 23:18:18 elliott: that makes sense 23:18:20 AND BY BE I MEAN LE 23:18:26 but what little endian gets you is probably much more useful than that 23:18:30 like, the question is "are you using this data type because the entire range matters", or "are you using this data type because it has sufficient range"? 23:18:58 "An encoder encoder's error algorithm takes a code point c and is as follows... Otherwise, if encoder's error handling mode is URL, emit byte 0x3F." 23:19:27 also little endian fits the structure of how you write successor/addition/etc. stuff recursively on a list-of-bits data type >_> 23:19:35 kmc: is that ... an elision, or was it like that in the original quote? 23:19:39 kmc: DoD 23:19:43 elliott: but /division/ you'd do bigendianly 23:19:45 an elision 23:19:49 shachaf: probably not then 23:20:04 kmc: did you see http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/ 23:20:20 no 23:20:21 creepy 23:21:03 "Applicant did not file his federal income tax returns in a timely manner for the tax years 2003 through 2009 nor did he pay taxes for those years. Additionally, he used marijuana from 1998 to 2008 and cocaine from 1998 to 2000. Applicant has rebutted or mitigated the security concerns under financial considerations and drug involvement. Clearance is granted. " 23:21:04 this is... something, shachaf. 23:21:18 two years spent doing nothing but cocaine 24/7 23:22:23 "Although the Applicant has been found not to be a pedophile by his treating Psychiatrist," great way to start a sentence 23:22:52 holy hell 23:22:54 kmc: you could say that about basically anyone who has a psychiatrist 23:23:08 what 23:23:13 I think "found not to be a pedophile" is different from "not found to be a pedophile" 23:23:21 I guess, it's stronger 23:23:23 and more favourable 23:23:25 oh are you doing that "read things in a weird 'logical' way instead of a remotely reasonable way" thing 23:23:39 it's a difference of kind not just of degree 23:23:47 kmc: I meant logically stronger 23:23:52 an affirmative action "find" versus lack of action 23:24:03 right... 23:24:07 > chr $ 0x3f 23:24:07 '?' 23:24:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:24:48 "x-user-defined" best character encoding??? 23:25:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:25:16 kmc: what's the encoding name for "direct to character ROM"? 23:25:21 hehe 23:25:43 (I was vaguely sad to discover that Linux had decided to officially reinterpret that code as "code page 437" and not update the docs, although it made my life rather easier writing libuncursed) 23:27:09 apparently "x-user-defined" is extended ASCII where the high-bit bytes map to the Unicode Pick Up Artist^W^W^W Private Use Area at 0xF780 23:27:27 probably for lack of anything better to map them to 23:27:41 ok can anyone explain how to interpreted that OFTO smiley in the logs 23:27:42 hmm, dual citizens can't get security clearance in the us without relinquishing their foreign passport? 23:28:10 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:28:23 kmc: Linux officially mapped Klingon onto the Private Use Area 23:28:32 apparently, because it got rejected by the Unicode Consortium 23:28:35 ah and you use it when you want to transfer binary data, because if you say "latin-1" then it's actually Windows-1252 #fml #burndowntheweb 23:29:05 isn't that application/octet-stream? 23:29:15 like, if you're transferring binary data 23:29:28 not only are the characters from 0x80 upwards undefined, the characters from 0x7F downwards are too 23:29:34 maybe octet-stream is also an alias for Windows-1252 23:29:35 I don't know, but there's some case where one needs this 23:29:36 ais523: To be fair, there's at least a conscript registry "standardizing" the mapping of the PUA? 23:29:46 pikhq_: I think so 23:29:52 i recall from way back that the conlanging community tried to divide up the private use area for conlangs. don't know if that stuck. 23:30:00 at least, the Linux kernel devs are apparently in communication with them 23:30:04 or were when they wrote the docs 23:30:08 and they arranged to avoid clashes 23:30:16 http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/ Presumably that. 23:30:46 that was it 23:31:07 "With the exception of his child support arrearage, he took no significant steps to resolve his debts until he learned [that] his debts were an impediment to obtaining a public trust position." 23:33:22 Was Einstein panendeist? 23:34:42 zzo38: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_religious_views 23:35:04 www.waseinsteinpanendeist.com 23:35:32 looks like german when you smoosh it all together like that 23:36:42 kmc: At least the "Einstein" part does, I suppose 23:37:05 ;P 23:37:44 Zzo38%27s_religious_views 23:38:11 is the "z" capitalized 23:38:26 Zzo%33%38 23:38:52 Bike: wikipedia always capitalizes. 23:39:02 Bike: In a Wikipedia article title it will be. 23:39:02 does it really 23:39:10 yes. 23:39:19 (Although there is a command to make it display in lowercase, the filename is capitzlied.) 23:39:23 that's gotta get weird for other languages 23:39:26 oh, filename. 23:39:46 I agree with Einstein that "the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously". 23:39:58 Bike: well, the english wikipedia. there's a setting and wiktionary goes the other way. 23:41:06 Furthermore, "the Bible [is] a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends". 23:41:32 honourable and/or horrifyingly fucked up 23:41:55 Yes, that too I suppose 23:42:17 It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up" 23:42:38 `addquote It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up" 23:42:42 1113) It is probably also "horrifyingly fucked up" 23:45:44 I agree about "His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws", but unlike Einstein I do not believe these laws to be deterministic (although I cannot be sure of this). 23:46:26 maybe it was ruled by wishful thinking until someone made a really lousy wish 23:48:40 oerjan: Sure, but I don't think so. I am thinking that things "outside of the universe" are also outside of spacetime, which also includes time. But I suppose how you say could be an analogy, because, the universe (and multiverse and whatever, if any) must be *something*, otherwise it would be nothing. You could call that a wish if you wanted to, I suppose, because there is nothing else to call it, but that doesn't make it correct. 23:49:08 It is a weird: my tar is reading this "Kingston elite pro 133X" CF card (over an USB 2.0 card reader) at approximately 100 kilobytes per second. 23:49:11 It is sort of a shame, because there is 1.7 gigabytes to read. 23:49:18 i meant what i said entirely literally. 23:49:29 fizzie: 17000 seconds isn't /that/ long, is it? 23:49:35 that doesn't mean i think it's true, but that's how i meant it. 23:50:07 Some other book described the existence as: They didn't know if there should be something or nothing, so they toss a coin to see, but that requires that there is a coin to toss, therefore existence is necessary. This is also a kind of analogy, for the similar kind of thing, I suppose. 23:50:42 zzo38: sounds similar to cogito ergo sum 23:50:49 `frink 17000 seconds -> days 23:50:49 ais523: It can be, if you wanted to get it done before sleeping but are very tired. (The card reader slurps at least a megabyte or two per second from the SD cards the camera uses, so I don't understand why it is being so slow.) 23:50:58 85/432 (approx. 0.19675925925925927) 23:51:04 `frink 17000 seconds -> hours 23:51:11 85/18 (approx. 4.722222222222222) 23:51:32 oerjan: Yes, sort of like that, but that isn't really quite like what I meant, either. 23:55:31 -!- augur has joined. 23:57:46 -!- azaq231 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).