00:38:15 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:07:41 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:46 -!- Koen__ has joined. 01:07:52 -!- Koen__ has quit (Client Quit). 01:08:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:51:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:52:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:19 help 01:55:22 !ping 01:55:27 Pong! 02:08:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:10:18 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:11:26 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:19:14 -!- augur has joined. 03:00:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:02:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:32:04 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 03:35:25 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:01:25 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:17:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:32:44 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 05:44:47 ~metar EFHK 05:44:58 Aw, no METARsepia present. 05:45:24 3 °C, brr. 05:59:47 `slist 05:59:50 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:00:32 `slist 06:00:34 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:00:47 Fiora: Isn't `list what you're looking for? 06:00:49 -!- shikhin__ has changed nick to shikhin. 06:00:52 ? 06:01:05 slist is the homestuck list. 06:01:07 nortti told me that `slist changed into `list. 06:01:09 Ah. 06:01:26 I don't know what list is, sorry ^^; 06:01:34 `list 06:01:38 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia mnoqy monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Roujo Sgeo SgeoBot shikhin SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 06:01:41 :-) 06:01:44 that doesn't look like the same thing 06:01:46 :-) 06:02:31 `cat bin/list 06:02:32 ​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 06:03:14 `cat bin/slist 06:03:16 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ Taneb \ atriq \ Ngevd \ Fiora \ nortti \ Sgeo \ ThatOtherPerson \ alot 06:06:27 `pwd 06:06:29 ​/hackenv 06:06:40 `whoami 06:06:42 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 06:06:54 `hostname 06:06:56 umlbox 06:07:02 `help 06:07:02 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 06:07:14 wait, where's the crack about hacking again 06:07:15 well whatever. 06:07:26 `relcome shikhin 06:07:30 ​shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:07:36 Bike: I got the welcome, yesterday :-) 06:08:06 a little collateral damage never hurt nobody important 06:09:41 `run welcome shikhin | rainwords 06:09:44 ​shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:09:59 ... 06:10:17 much better innit 06:10:25 `run welcome kmc Bike 06:10:27 kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:10:38 Ah. 06:10:44 `run run 06:10:45 bash: run: command not found 06:10:55 `run uname -a 06:10:56 Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux 06:11:10 Who hosts HackEgo? 06:11:13 `run ifconfig 06:11:15 bash: ifconfig: command not found 06:11:23 shikhin: it's gregor's pregorative 06:11:31 i can't spell that word 06:11:42 prerogative? 06:11:46 gregorative 06:11:47 probably 06:12:31 `run dmesg | tail 06:12:33 loop: module loaded \ TCP: cubic registered \ NET: Registered protocol family 10 \ sit: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver \ Initialized stdio console driver \ Console initialized on /dev/tty0 \ console [tty0] enabled \ Initializing software serial port version 1 \ console [mc-1] enabled \ ubda: unknown partition table 06:12:45 `run dmesg | paste 06:12:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26859 06:13:06 `run ls -l | paste 06:13:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5680 06:13:28 nice n short 06:13:41 `run cat quotes | paste 06:13:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16508 06:13:48 I ran http://codemonkey.org.uk/projects/trinity/ against UMLBox and pretty quickly found something that would hang the "VM", but nothing more interesting 06:14:08 i think you can just do uh 06:14:09 `url paste 06:14:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste 06:14:12 something like that? 06:14:15 UML is pretty dodgy and weird and obscure though, so there probably is some VM breakout exploit if you want to find it 06:15:33 "User-Mode Linux is a safe, secure way of running [stuff]." 06:15:34 shikhin: check out the wisdom pdf for all our stupid bullshit in pleasantly ignorable form 06:15:52 Bike: Yeah, it's on my read-me :-) 06:16:50 you have a readme? 06:17:15 looks like this page has all the wrong information... I don't want to *use* UML, I want to know how it works 06:17:30 Bike: Not readme, read-me. :P 06:17:45 "These are the articles that want to be read by me." 06:17:48 sounds too complicated for me 06:18:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:32:20 apparently it works by running processes with ptrace to catch their system calls, and seems to actually run the "kernel" code inside those processes while temporarily disabling system call tracing 06:32:38 (according to http://kernel.org/doc/ols/2001/uml.pdf) 06:36:10 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 06:36:29 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 06:36:29 -!- audioPhil has joined. 06:37:46 olsner: They have (had?) different modes; that's the TT ("Tracing Thread") one. 06:38:04 olsner: There's also the SKAS ("Separate Kernel Address Space") mode, which I think had two different versions. 06:38:58 The latter needs (needed?) some specific patches in the host kernel. 06:39:02 http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/old/skas.html -- might be kinda outdated. 06:39:40 "These patches are against 2.4.19 --" yes, very modern. 06:40:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:41:10 Wikipedia claims that "A method of running a separate kernel address space (SKAS) that does not require host kernel patching has been implemented". 06:41:15 [citation needed] 06:51:25 `run grep skas /proc/cpuinfo 06:51:27 mode: skas 06:54:18 I suppose even skas mode involves ptrace, but it only has a single UML userspace process and not one host process per guest process. 06:54:43 shikhin: no, `slist used to be named `list 06:59:29 @ask oerjan why '(' and why would using it make fungot process a less of a pain? 06:59:29 Consider it noted. 06:59:30 nortti: anne. no, no, nor never make fair weather yet a while, and like me banished, then mightest thou teare thy hayre, and fall a cursing like a very drab. a scullion? fye vpon't: foh. about my stature: for at pentecost, when all that is mine 06:59:32 https://lkml.org/lkml/2005/7/1/203 has some details on this "skas0" mode (skas without host kernel patches) 07:00:35 that's more like what I expected in the first place instead of the "Tracing Thread" mode 07:03:15 though it does still involve some code running inside each UML process, and ptrace 07:04:06 static int show_cpuinfo(struct seq_file *m, void *v) { [...] seq_printf(m, "mode\t\t: skas\n"); 07:04:11 It also seems to be the only mode these days. 07:54:15 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:57:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:41:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:28:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:32:12 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 09:35:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:55:11 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 10:12:47 -!- mnoqy has joined. 10:17:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:40:44 -!- carado has joined. 10:56:25 https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf 11:12:10 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:18:44 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:23:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:25:27 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:28:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:42:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:55:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:00:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:37:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:40:19 -!- yorick has joined. 12:44:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:47:37 @tell nortti because then i can define the command in simple underload fitting in one irc line instead of generated brainfuck that needs to be fed in through several lines. (underload has very simple printing but cannot handle unmatched parentheses.) 12:47:37 Consider it noted. 12:48:32 ah, hmm 12:49:22 actually, for oonbotti3, I was already going to do that 12:49:53 wait are these 3 different bots, there's only so many bots we can fit you know. 12:50:24 no, oonbotti3 will replace ob2, like ob2 replaced ob 12:50:29 good, good 12:51:42 also someone pointed out plain ( might not be a good idea, (+space might work better. 12:51:51 (because of people speaking like this.) 12:52:39 although that only matters if oonbotti? reacts to unknown commands. 12:54:22 @tell shikhin nortti told me that `slist changed into `list. <-- no it's the other way around, `slist used to be called just `list before the lists multiplied. 12:54:22 Consider it noted. 12:54:58 oerjan: Ah. 12:55:10 oh you were here. 12:55:45 i think i somehow got confused about your spelling when checking. 12:57:06 -!- boily has joined. 12:57:14 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:01:33 wait, where's the crack about hacking again 13:01:40 `? HackEgo 13:01:44 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 13:02:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:02:56 `run rm -rf / 13:02:58 rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe 13:03:11 Did I succeed? :P 13:03:20 good imagination 13:03:23 nope. 13:03:27 oerjan: Why? 13:04:24 `run rm -rf / --no-preserve-root 13:04:30 Heh. 13:04:33 Bam. 13:04:36 `help 13:04:36 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 13:04:38 :( 13:05:09 optimist 13:05:36 oerjan: I already told him that 13:05:43 `pwd 13:05:45 ok. 13:05:58 rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/meta_bg_resize': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/batched_discard': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/ext4/features/lazy_itable_init': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/fs/cgroup': Permission denied \ rm: cannot remove `/sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0': Permission 13:05:58 `run pwd 13:06:05 Oh, rm is still going on. 13:06:12 Wait, wasn't it running with root? 13:06:15 ​/hackenv 13:06:17 ​/hackenv 13:06:33 shikhin: that part of the message was meant ironically. 13:06:49 D'oh. 13:07:11 you're still welcome to try to break out of the sandbox, i think. 13:07:29 i don't think anyone has got very far. 13:08:04 `run shutdown -h NOW 13:08:05 :D 13:08:05 bash: shutdown: command not found 13:08:08 Aww. 13:08:12 `run restart 13:08:14 bash: restart: command not found 13:08:21 Ok, that's as far as I can try. 13:08:24 * shikhin gives up. 13:08:25 very very few people manage to break things enough that we cannot just fix it with the `revert command. 13:08:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:08:39 Perhaps very few are motivated enough? 13:08:40 `? Ngevd 13:08:42 ​#t `? Ngevd 13:08:49 ​-Yئ%\L{t \ ħChGo 13:08:49 Set up a $1000 price, I'm sure more will succeed. 13:08:59 shikhin: indeed. 13:09:02 `run readlink -f wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:04 ​/hackenv/wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:16 hm? 13:09:24 `run cat wisdom/Ngevd 13:09:25 cat: wisdom/Ngevd: No such file or directory 13:09:30 `run cat wisdom/ngevd 13:09:32 ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 13:09:38 oh 13:09:55 `? is a shorthand for? 13:09:57 is a shorthand for?? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:10:02 I ssee. 13:10:13 nortti, it used to work like that but it broke pastewisdom 13:10:19 hehe 13:10:24 it used to be a symlink to /dev/urandom, but then people were dumb with it and it had to be special-cased 13:10:25 nortti: it _used_ to be an actual device file but that made it awkward to do things. 13:10:27 same as: 13:10:29 `ls wisdom 13:10:31 ​` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛ 13:10:44 wtf 13:10:52 `paste bin/wisdom 13:10:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/wisdom 13:10:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:10:57 `paste bin/ls 13:10:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/ls 13:11:00 (im idiot) 13:11:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Changing host). 13:11:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:11:33 `cat bin/ls 13:11:34 ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^752129 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 13:11:51 Phantom_Hoover: presumably the inode changed again. 13:11:57 `/bin/ls wisdom 13:11:59 ​` \ `? \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ ⊥ \ ⌨ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠҉̡̧̛ 13:12:44 `run /bin/ls -id wisdom 13:12:46 969195 wisdom 13:12:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/b018e83c2886/wisdom 13:13:14 `run sed -i 's/752129/969195/g' bin/ls 13:13:18 No output. 13:13:22 `ls wisdom 13:13:24 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 13:13:46 `paste /bin/l 13:13:46 `pastewisdom 13:13:47 `paste /bin/ls 13:13:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/l 13:13:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:13:49 it's not as necessary as it used to be, obviously. 13:13:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//bin/ls 13:13:59 ah 13:15:01 why is there a .swp file in hackenv? 13:15:04 Phantom_Hoover: i doubt /bin/ls is a readable script. hm i guess the `paste file optimization doesn't deal well with files outside the repository. 13:15:22 nortti: someone ran vim maybe? 13:15:36 istr something like that. 13:15:46 vim leaves _behind_ swap files? 13:16:01 nortti: when it errors out due to having no terminal, maybe? 13:16:46 `rm *.swp 13:16:48 rm: cannot remove `*.swp': No such file or directory 13:16:51 nortti: that's sort of the point of having them in the first place, so you can restore after errors. 13:16:56 :D 13:16:57 `rm .swp 13:17:02 No output. 13:17:21 `vim 13:17:33 Hmm. 13:17:46 it gets killed after a while 13:17:50 shikhin: files starting with . are excluded from expansions 13:17:52 Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~ 13:18:03 also 13:18:07 Took really long to figure that out, didn't it? 13:18:07 `echo * 13:18:09 nortti: oh right it may just have been killed right. 13:18:09 ​* 13:18:15 `ls 13:18:17 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:18:18 *? 13:18:28 `ls -a 13:18:29 ​. \ .. \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ .hg \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ no \ oerjan \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:18:38 Nope. 13:18:44 hm seems no swap this time. 13:18:51 `file no 13:18:52 no: ERROR: cannot open `no' (No such file or directory) 13:19:03 `touch no 13:19:03 `run file ' no' 13:19:07 ​ no: empty 13:19:09 No output. 13:19:24 `run rm no ' no' 13:19:28 No output. 13:19:29 :D 13:19:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:21:44 oh wait 13:21:47 `ls .swp 13:21:49 ls: cannot access .swp: No such file or directory 13:21:51 nope. 13:22:50 `ls -aF 13:22:52 ​./ \ ../ \ bi \ bin/ \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints@ \ delvs* \ delvs-master/ \ dog \ etc/ \ factor/ \ .hg/ \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin/ \ index.html \ interps/ \ lib/ \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ oerjan/ \ paste/ \ pref \ prefs \ quines/ \ quotes \ share/ \ src/ \ wisdom/ \ wisdom.pdf 13:22:57 nortti: i vaguely suspect there's a race condition between vim detecting no terminal and HackEgo timing out the process, so it only happens when HackEgo is strained? maybe. 13:23:08 `ls -aF oerjan/ 13:23:13 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 13:23:20 what's -F ? 13:23:33 shows / for dirs, * for executables 13:23:43 `ls oerjan 13:23:45 cat 13:23:58 `run diff oerjan/cat cat 13:23:58 `cat oerjan/cat 13:23:59 Meow~~ 13:23:59 No output. 13:24:10 `rm oerjan/cat 13:24:10 `run delvs 13:24:13 No output. 13:24:15 `rmdir oerjan 13:24:15 bash: delvs: command not found 13:24:17 No output. 13:24:21 `run ./delvs 13:24:23 Usage: ./delvs 13:24:26 `run ./delvs foo 13:24:28 File: "foo" not found 13:24:32 `run ./delvs dog 13:24:34 No output. 13:24:37 `cat dog 13:24:38 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 13:24:40 Hrm. 13:24:53 `touch file 13:24:57 No output. 13:24:58 `echo Hi > file 13:25:00 Hi > file 13:25:03 `paste delvs 13:25:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs 13:25:11 Good idea. 13:25:35 bah, can't read x86 machine lang 13:25:49 `ndisasm 13:25:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ndisasm: not found 13:25:52 `./delvs --help 13:25:54 File: "--help" not found 13:26:46 `run readelf -s delvs | paste 13:26:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10305 13:26:54 `cat mind 13:26:55 No output. 13:27:02 `./delvs mind 13:27:04 No output. 13:27:04 `cat mind 13:27:05 No output. 13:27:31 `ls delvs-master/samples 13:27:33 hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf 13:27:37 oh 13:27:43 i think it may be a bf interpreter 13:27:44 brainfuck? 13:27:54 `./delvs delvs-master/hi.bf 13:27:56 File: "delvs-master/hi.bf" not found 13:28:01 I was just going to say "it might be interpreter, it has symbol called lexer" 13:28:06 nortti: :D 13:28:17 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi.bf 13:28:19 Hello World! 13:28:23 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:24 Hello World! 13:28:27 ? 13:28:33 `paste delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:34 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf 13:28:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/samples/hi-bool.bf 13:28:35 File: "delvs-master/samples/multiple.bf" not found 13:28:40 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 13:29:04 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2 13:29:05 File: "delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf 1 2" not found 13:29:08 Hmm. 13:29:11 No output. 13:29:13 yhat doesn't seem much like brainfuck 13:29:24 `./delvs delvs-master/samples/writetonull.bf 13:29:26 Segmentation fault 13:29:31 :D 13:29:31 :O 13:29:46 presumably a derivative, then. 13:30:08 :D' 13:31:00 `run :(){ :|:& };: 13:31:04 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Delvs 13:31:06 .. 13:31:06 No output. 13:31:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=delvs btw 13:31:14 why did I not check this first 13:32:37 `run tar txf master.tar.gz | paste 13:32:43 tar: You may not specify more than one `-Acdtrux' or `--test-label' option \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13265 13:32:53 `run tar tzf master.tar.gz | paste 13:32:55 bleh 13:32:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21268 13:33:17 `paste delvs-master/main.c 13:33:19 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/main.c 13:33:51 `paste delvs-master/delvs.h.c 13:33:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h.c 13:34:02 `paste delvs-master/delvs.h 13:34:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/delvs-master/delvs.h 13:34:16 shikhin: ffs, use github 13:34:20 nortti: :D 13:34:34 shikhin: https://github.com/L8D/delvs 13:35:06 shikhin: you can also use the web interface at http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ directly. 13:35:46 note how pasting a file just gives you the link to it there, and doesn't actually create a paste. 13:38:11 -!- Jafet has left. 13:38:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 13:38:25 `ls 13:38:27 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:38:42 `run mv delvs-master share 13:38:46 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:38:54 what 13:39:02 `ls share 13:39:04 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:39:22 `diff delvs-master share/delvs-master 13:39:24 diff: missing operand after `delvs-master share/delvs-master' \ diff: Try `diff --help' for more information. 13:39:36 `run diff delvs-master share/delvs-master 13:39:37 Only in delvs-master: bf.c \ Only in delvs-master: bf.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.h \ Only in delvs-master: delvs.rb \ Only in delvs-master: .gitignore \ Only in delvs-master: main.c \ Only in delvs-master: Makefile \ Only in delvs-master: README.md \ Common subdirectories: delvs-master/samples and share/delvs-mast 13:40:03 `rm -R share/delvs-master 13:40:04 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 13:40:09 `run rm -R share/delvs-master 13:40:11 No output. 13:40:17 `run mv delvs-master share 13:40:21 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:40:26 wtf! 13:40:36 `ls share/delvs-master 13:40:38 samples 13:40:44 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:40:46 No output. 13:40:54 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:41:04 `rmdir share/delvs-master/samples 13:41:05 No output. 13:41:11 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:41:12 ls: cannot access share/delvs-master/samples: No such file or directory 13:41:24 `rmdir share/delvs-master 13:41:25 No output. 13:41:30 `run mv delvs-master share 13:41:34 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:41:44 WHAT THE H* IS GOING ON 13:41:57 `ls share/delvs-master 13:42:00 samples 13:42:06 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:42:08 No output. 13:42:16 ~duck arisdottle 13:42:17 --- No relevant information 13:43:04 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:43:06 No output. 13:43:16 Jafet: what is an arisdottle? 13:43:27 `run mv share/delvs-master AAA 13:43:28 No output. 13:43:32 `ls share 13:43:34 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:43:38 `ls share 13:43:40 awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 13:43:47 `run mv delvs-master share 13:43:52 mv: cannot move `delvs-master' to `share/delvs-master': Directory not empty 13:43:53 Apparently it is perl for the :: operator. 13:44:10 ok there's something ridiculous here. 13:44:22 Jafet: like the infamous paamayim nekudotayim? 13:44:30 `ls share/delvs-master 13:44:32 samples 13:44:35 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:44:37 No output. 13:45:06 `ls 13:45:08 AAA \ bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:45:15 `ls AAA 13:45:17 samples 13:45:42 That is hebrew for we don't speak english motherfucker. 13:45:53 `rm -R AAA 13:45:55 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 13:45:59 `run rm -R AAA 13:46:00 No output. 13:46:05 `ls 13:46:07 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:46:08 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:25 `ls 13:46:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:46:27 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ delvs-master \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:46:40 I never realised this was a Daft Punk song 13:46:49 Even though there is pretty much no-one else it could be 13:47:10 `run rm -R share/delvs-master; mv delvs-master share 13:47:14 No output. 13:47:17 whewe 13:48:12 @tell gregor PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX 13:48:12 Consider it noted. 13:50:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:51:37 `ls 13:51:39 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ delvs \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ mind \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 13:51:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 13:51:47 `rm master.tar.gz 13:51:51 No output. 13:52:11 `ls share/delvs-master/samples 13:52:13 hi.bf \ hi-bool.bf \ multiply.bf \ readfile.bf \ writefile.bf \ writetonull.bf 13:52:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:52:19 `rm multiply.bf 13:52:23 No output. 13:52:36 `mv delvs bin 13:52:37 mv: missing destination file operand after `delvs bin' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 13:52:44 `run mv delvs bin 13:52:48 No output. 13:53:14 oerjan: who manages the script that unhthifies you? 13:53:24 boily: elliott made it. 13:53:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:54:03 elliott: can you add thx to the unørjanable three-letter-acronyms? 13:54:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:54:42 i use it _once_ and you want to remove it, sheesh 13:56:52 beuh... it only was for science. I'd have asked him to reput it back again afterwards... 13:57:44 you realize i have to manually install it, right? 13:57:59 oh. 14:04:59 Installing the diagrams library on an RPi takes a while 14:06:20 i thought haskell didn't work on an rpi 14:06:25 or was that just ghc 14:06:47 Phantom_Hoover, template haskell doesn't, and GHCi doesn't 14:06:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:07:41 Taneb, well one of those follows from the other 14:08:38 ...oh, template haskell 14:08:39 Taneb: happy hackage 2 day! 14:09:31 On another note entirely, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is out in the US but not the UK :( 14:11:31 Taneb: you don't happen to have S.H.I.E.L.D. comics do you? i have a long-standing wikipedia correction that i cannot do because no one ever answered me about whether they _really_ misspelled Isaac Newton in the comics. 14:11:42 Taneb, don't worry, it'll be cancelled before it makes it here 14:12:09 Phantom_Hoover, by 8PM Friday? 14:12:13 oerjan, no I don't 14:12:17 darn. 14:12:25 I have precisely two Marvel comics 14:12:26 Taneb, it is whedon after all 14:12:39 8PM Friday!!! 14:13:03 Phantom_Hoover, he brought a character back to life so maybe it will be uncancelled 14:13:41 ooh wait someone has answered! 14:14:06 Yay 14:14:10 "New York Times' Brooks Barnes [...] added that "what goes over well at Comic-Con does not necessarily work in the real world,"" 14:14:23 yep, seems plausible 14:14:49 Phantom_Hoover, next you'll tell me I can't turn up to lectures in my Wonder Woman cosplay 14:15:11 nah, you'll be fine there 14:16:49 -!- conehead has joined. 14:17:19 (are you doing maths or cs again, i forget) 14:17:30 (both) 14:18:03 (so in a weird way you did not forget at all) 14:25:09 Taneb: not without uploading to youtube you can't! 14:25:43 wait is that a double negative or not. maybe triple. 14:26:59 oerjan: quadruple negative: “not”, “without”, “youtube” and “can't”. 14:27:08 O KAY 14:36:53 you shouldn't never underestimate the negative absence of the negations that are not there. 14:37:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:38:43 NO KAY 14:39:52 misunderestimate 14:56:48 -!- shikhin has changed nick to draumr. 14:57:00 -!- draumr has changed nick to draumr_. 15:00:11 -!- draumr_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:09:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:12:46 FheeFullo. 15:14:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:15:03 boily 15:16:21 is that a stealth hello with my name? 15:17:33 boily boily boily, boily boily. 15:22:09 "Heily borld!" is a typical first program in a programming language. 15:26:22 -!- asie has joined. 15:26:43 I'm having trouble picking a CPU architecture (or simple programming language implemented as a CPU) for a Minecraft computing mod 15:27:32 asie: z80? 15:27:42 boily: i've always been fond of the 6502 15:27:47 but it feels boring, stale and just wrong in many aspects 15:27:54 the z80 is better but i've never really got into the z80 15:28:17 there's a first time to everything ☺ 15:28:23 as in i tried it 15:28:28 but i didn't really like it 15:28:32 meh. 15:28:34 i was considering going custom but it's hard to make a fake CPU arch 15:29:03 motorola 68k? mips? some horrendous CISC architecture? 15:29:58 (not x86. it doesn't even count as an architecture. more like a chaotic borg cube that happens to be cube shaped, but entirely by accident.) 15:30:05 x86 is ugly 15:30:10 80286. 15:30:55 SuperH? 15:32:06 You should work out the minecraft laws of physics and design an architecture around it. 15:32:16 Jafet: the only rule is sand falls 15:32:32 How far can you miniaturize it? Will tunneling become a barrier? 15:34:15 asie, subleq 15:34:24 failing that: reduceron 15:34:26 Phantom_Hoover: it can't be too minimalist 15:34:33 because it can't run too slow in practice 15:34:37 so subleq/BF-level stuff is out 15:34:45 befunge could be interesting 15:35:41 or perhaps a minor iteration on ARMv2? 15:35:46 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 15:36:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:36:29 redcode! 15:37:41 redcode isn't a half-bad idea 15:38:07 Anything involving RAM is not going to work. 15:38:29 i once tried making a TM in minecraft 15:38:40 Jafet: It's amod 15:38:41 a mod* 15:38:46 Not a build 15:38:55 It's a mod, so I can implement anything I want 15:39:13 ...and now i'm thinking how i might do so once more 15:39:46 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 15:39:56 Phantom_Hoover: tons of pistons 15:40:12 might be possible to do it with only a few, actually 15:40:12 since a few MC versions ago, some blocks send a redstone signal through and some don't 15:40:25 that's your tape 15:40:32 yeah, that's what i was using 15:40:40 do it in a magnetic way 15:40:41 i had a read/write head set up with dirt/glass 15:40:47 always have both dirt and glass 15:40:51 and just swap their order 15:40:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:41:00 yes, this is exactly what i had 15:41:26 moving the tape was the problem, but now i'm wondering if you could use back-to-back piston shuttles at each end 15:41:28 can you mux signals on a redstone wire? 15:41:37 Phantom_Hoover: the max length is 16, i think 15:41:40 boily: with redlogic yes 15:41:53 Phantom_Hoover: so you can have a 63-length tape by making a 16x16 square 15:42:02 and just pushing it through on all 4 corners every time 15:42:15 asie, for the purposes of the exercise i'm assuming it's infinite 15:42:32 Phantom_Hoover: an INFINITE piston tape, now... 15:43:04 also: you could divide the tape into... 12-cell chunks, with pistons at each end 15:43:11 and move them through in turn 15:43:36 hm? 15:45:08 well you know how if you have two sticky pistons with their faces pointed together they can be moved by extending them in turn 15:49:23 the basic idea is to have 'carriages' of those, with wires at the side controlling their movement 15:49:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:49:58 and then you line a bunch of them up to get past the 16-block limit on pistons 16:00:27 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:05:16 -!- Koen__ has joined. 16:05:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:10:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:10:55 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 16:29:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:29:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:36:34 -!- azaq23 has joined. 16:37:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:47:14 -!- Bike has joined. 16:48:37 -!- asie has joined. 16:50:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:50:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:50:54 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 17:07:47 -!- augur has joined. 17:10:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 17:30:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:46:01 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:46:06 -!- yorick_ has joined. 17:46:48 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:07:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:19:43 -!- Bike has joined. 18:21:17 -!- yorick_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:22:47 -!- conehead has joined. 18:30:42 hm. I ordered a keyboard this morning. a few hours later, I get a reply from paypal and the site that my order's been cancelled and refunded. 18:30:58 apparently, I managed to order an out of production, out of stock keyboard. 18:31:01 * boily sighs 18:33:36 maybe you can get a used keyboard of the same kind? 18:36:56 -!- yorick has joined. 18:38:20 olsner: bah. I ordered the new generation, the one that the support guy positively asserted that is in stock and exists. 18:50:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:55:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 19:02:24 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 19:21:27 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 19:34:32 ~yi 19:34:32 Your divination: "Prospering" to "Obstruction" 19:34:49 obstruction indeed. been struggling with database integrity errors the whole day. 19:37:19 -!- asie has joined. 19:37:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:39:14 I thought the whole point about a (relational) database is that you don't have to. :p 19:40:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:40:15 http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/ 19:41:14 «You're probably okay.» 19:41:41 so you aren't using MySQL then 19:42:04 apparently my database is "Probably pretty fucked." 19:42:59 I like the error messages. 19:43:18 (My irclog database is probably okay.) 19:45:51 kmc: OpenERP only runs on Postgres. which is a strangely sane choice, considering the rest of the framework can make you become schizophreniac. 19:46:05 erp erp erp erp erp 19:46:06 boily: maybe it bundles MySQL for the other database 19:47:11 olsner: afaik, you are right. 19:47:20 * boily shakes kmc 19:47:46 http://howfuckedismydistro.com/gentoo/ I um pffffff 19:48:05 i see only darkness 19:48:12 oh. oh my. 19:49:09 is it... compiling the kernel on boot? 19:49:31 needs -funroll-loops for speed 19:50:01 it's. I... I can't describe that. there is green text impacting my optical nerves. I feeel uneasy. I give you a hamburger. 19:50:24 I skipped to the end. :/ 19:50:26 Fiora: this is good 19:50:32 Fiora: are you on gentoo? 19:50:36 at work, yeah ^^; 19:50:38 "Okay, you're just fucked." 19:51:08 im too dumb to get the joke so far 19:53:15 oh i think i 'get' it in the sense that i see the joke too late to find it funny 19:54:06 I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of this site. 19:54:09 It might be a joke of some kind. 19:54:14 Alternately, it might not. 19:54:29 oerjan said 6h 6m 6s ago: PLZ FIX REMOVAL OF EMPTY DIRECTORIES IN HACKEGO THX // No. 19:54:45 In this handy, compact guide, you’ll explore a ton of powerful Ubuntu Linux commands while you learn to use Ubuntu Linux as the experts do: from the command line. Try out more than 1,000 commands to find and get software, monitor system health and security, and access network resources. Then, apply the skills you learn from this book to use and administer desktops and servers running Ubuntu, Debian, and KNOPPIX or any other Linux distribution. 19:55:48 there's no arch page ;_; 19:55:53 Nor Slackware. 19:56:00 Gregor, it benefits from seeing the rest of the site first 19:56:10 it's only ubuntu, debian, gentoo, and redhat, it seems 19:56:11 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, I poked around a bit. 19:56:13 I "get it" 19:59:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:59:13 who else arches? 20:00:11 nooooobyd 20:00:58 nooooobyd, the Evil Cousin with a Goatee of Nooodl? 20:02:31 i do because elliott bullied me 20:02:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:04:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:04:28 -!- atriq has joined. 20:04:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:05:40 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:06:52 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 20:07:58 elliott: stop bullying people, even if you are bringing them on the Bright Path of the Best Distro doing so. 20:19:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:20:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:21:52 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:22:22 for completely unknown and mysterious reasons, wikipedians saw fit to put the pronounciation for the local variations on “that's greek to me” → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_to_me 20:25:02 "It is for me a Spanish village." — Czech 20:26:01 interesting use of "pronunciation" there boily 20:26:24 ...it's the normal one? 20:26:53 oh, i thought they meant the different phrases 20:27:24 s/noun/nun/ 20:27:50 i like fish-egg language 20:28:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:28:45 did somebody put together the graph of the languages here 20:29:58 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/graph2.png ← someone did. 20:30:05 good 20:30:06 I'd feel bad about conflating "Chinese" and Mandarin, or "Greek" and- well, great. 20:30:07 (well. for the mainest languages) 20:30:08 <3 languagelog forever 20:31:02 Which graph is that graph? 20:31:22 the graph of languages using one another as idiomatically incomprehensible 20:31:38 Ah. 20:31:40 kind of wondering about aramaic, i didn't know it was common enough for people to think about 20:31:50 like, within the last two thousand years, i mean 20:31:55 there doesn't seem to be much progress lately on xkcd's beanish :( 20:32:06 i blame the bible 20:32:08 for aramaic I mean 20:32:13 Also also: non-planar representations of planar graphs are nasty. 20:32:13 Bike: everybody speaks aramaic. fsvo speaks. 20:32:17 I don't know what xkcd whatever is and I'm not sure if I can blame the bible or not 20:32:20 for some, non-speaks value of speaks 20:32:45 romanian -> turkish -> french -> hebrew -> chinese -> heavenly script 20:33:05 i thought it was... idk, some kind of language fascist thing 20:33:12 i have a chinese novel that has some heavenly script in it. unfortunately the novel is too hard for me to read 20:33:15 thought what was? 20:33:21 the graph 20:33:33 hmm, Hindi is missing a link... is it Chinese? is it Heavenly script? is it Greek? 20:33:44 maybe sanskrit? 20:34:01 that would be reasonably closely analogous to greek, at least 20:34:02 also somewhat disappointed about the lack of loops 20:34:41 india has like a billion languages and all though, maybe they ust pick the language of a random province 20:34:49 it's all kannada to me 20:35:00 I am at kannada. 20:35:07 it's all sindhalese to me 20:37:17 boily: it's spoken in karnataka. having the languages and provinces have the same names or even geographical areas would be way too simple. 20:37:33 oh, that's where mysore was, neat 20:37:58 maybe they could just use "indian" as the gibberish language 20:38:09 there should be at least slightly fewer than a billion indian languages anyone doesn't speak 20:38:10 nobody uses 'english' do they :/ 20:38:44 i dunno olsner, where i live analogous terms like "American" "Mexican" or "Canadian" are only used to imply that you're an idiot 20:40:00 Nobody uses Finnish either, even though (for some strange reason) it's often used as a prototypical hard-to-learn language. 20:40:15 in my imaginary world it's because people notice it's not IE. 20:41:26 fizzie: probably because Hungarian holds the spotlight when people think about difficult to learn finno-ugric languages. 20:41:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:42:25 that reminds me I still have to learn Estonian. 20:42:33 `ls 20:42:36 bi \ bin \ bin` \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ dog \ etc \ factor \ file \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 20:42:40 I believe one of the words for gibberish in swedish is cognate with 'welsh' 20:42:49 boily: But nobody's using Hungarian either. 20:43:24 boily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDEI06J00nk hth. 20:43:34 Gregor: did you _see_ the mess i had earlier today trying to move a directory from top level to share/ ? 20:43:44 `canary 20:43:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: canary: not found 20:44:06 `file bin` 20:44:08 bin`: POSIX shell script text executable 20:44:16 `bin` 20:44:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bin`: not found 20:44:19 `cat bin` 20:44:21 ​#!/bin/sh 20:44:25 golly 20:44:31 oerjan: DON'T CARE 20:44:56 Gregor: but WHY (is it happening in the first place :( ) 20:45:46 Because Mercurial doesn't support adding empty directories to the repository. 20:45:54 Bike: what is that mysteriõus thing... 20:46:10 Gregor: i'm not talking about adding them, but removing. 20:46:37 oerjan: All of the transactional file behavior is based on hg changes. 20:46:47 Since it doesn't recognize the removal of a directory as a change, it doesn't know that anything has been done. 20:47:41 Bike: his eyes. they disturb me. 20:48:30 Gregor: when HackEgo runs a command, does it get an entirely new copy of the file structure to run in? 20:48:42 `? monoid 20:48:44 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 20:49:04 oerjan: No. 20:49:13 `pastewisdom 20:49:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 20:50:16 Gregor: it was completely ridiculous btw, i removed the directory and ls in a later command shows it as not being there; but when i try to move the new version into there it breaks down claiming the spot's already occupied. 20:50:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:50:59 Gregor: the only thing that worked was removing the old directory and moving to it in the same command. 20:51:25 Yup. 20:51:52 I know it's confusing, but it's not easy to fix and not a common enough problem for me to care. 20:55:22 argh my back starts acting up as soon as i sit down with the laptop :( 20:55:56 been that way since monday morning or so. 20:56:22 -!- Bike has joined. 20:56:28 pretty much any way of sitting with a laptop is bad for the back 20:57:00 Gregor: are codu pretty logs still broked? 20:57:19 boily: it's an estonian cartoon, obviously. one i like. 20:57:20 Yup >_> <_< 20:57:31 apparently this aired on tv for children to watch at least once! 20:58:08 I sent it to a coworker. he likes it. 20:58:16 damn straight he does. 20:59:00 is it as good as worker and parasite 20:59:16 (real) soviet cartoons are way better than worker and parasite. 20:59:27 they do look about as freaky at times, tho. 21:02:10 Phantom_Hoover: I prefer cow orkers, but only in fiction. 21:05:09 cow orker is one of my favorite puns 21:07:13 Huh that was strange, doing ls on the NFS mount was out of sync compared to doing ls on the ssh session. This lasted for about half a minute until the NFS mount caught up as it were. 21:07:29 I didn't even know NFS could return a stale state, I thought it would block 21:07:51 NFS can do *anything* 21:08:07 NFS ate my balls 21:08:16 olsner, fair enough 21:09:00 `? things NFS can do 21:09:02 things NFS can do? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:10:13 myndzi: ? 21:10:38 good night 21:10:43 boily: Phantom_Hoover got myndzi to ignore HackEgo. 21:10:59 oh did i 21:11:01 he got fed up with precisely that figure. 21:11:48 Vorpal: 'night! 21:11:52 Phantom_Hoover: well i recall _someone_ did, and you're the kind of person who might. 21:14:12 `echo \o/ 21:14:12 | 21:14:13 |\ 21:14:13 ​\o/ 21:14:21 if Foo is a struct do you think one should be able to assign to fields of Foo through pattern matching,. i.e. (foo.x, foo.y) = f(); 21:15:14 http://sprunge.us/KdCj <- NFS can. 21:15:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:15:40 kmc: Foo <$> f, but I have this feeling you're talking about Rust. 21:16:12 “nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified” 21:16:18 that's not really assignment... 21:16:43 boily: i don't think Foo <$> f works if f returns a pair. 21:16:59 Canon - you can. 21:17:12 fizzie has been an adbot this entire time 21:17:13 oerjan: there are some fuzzy-tuple-y details that my tired brain can't figure out at the moment. 21:17:28 boily: try eating some curry 21:17:37 "nfs can do virtually everything. but it isn't specified" this is good. 21:17:41 oerjan: only on Tuesday nights, after the movies. 21:17:51 fizzie: other people talk about salmiakki? 21:18:06 kmc: is there an argument against doing it? 21:18:19 I'm talking about Rust and other related languages 21:18:35 anything with structures with named fields, assignment, and destructuring / pattern-matching 21:18:45 I mean Python allows this, but it doesn't really have a distinction between assignment and declaration 21:19:57 does anyone happen to know offhand if the following is possible on Windows: create a DLL that has undefined symbols that are linked in from the process that includes it? 21:19:58 boily: <[REDACTED Finnish person on a different channel]> btw, i can bring you mämmi and salmiakki from finland. 21:20:20 hmm, mämmi, we get that in shops here sometimes... what the heck is it? 21:20:22 this works just fine on Linux 21:20:29 ~duck mämmi 21:20:29 --- No relevant information 21:20:31 but I'm not sure how to do it on Windows, or even if it's possible 21:20:42 (context: porting a program which does this from Linux to Windows) 21:20:44 AAAAURGH! for the one legitimate use of ~duck, I get no infos. 21:21:08 like, the dll uses the symbols, which are resolved at link time by the program...? 21:21:21 !fromto fi en mämmi 21:21:31 Bike: yeah, basically program X includes DLL Y; X has a global variable, Y can read from and write to that variable 21:21:49 not sure if the linker can do it automatically, but I'm pretty sure a DLL can get the handle of the process that linked it and resolve symbols manually that way 21:22:10 olsner: well on Linux it just works, even without attributes or special compiler options 21:22:29 on mingw it doesn't, the linker complains about unresolved symbols when building the DLL 21:22:32 ~duck memma 21:22:32 Mmmi is a traditional Finnish Easter dessert. 21:22:37 Oi mämmi, Suomi, synnyinmaa 21:22:39 * boily headdesks. 21:22:56 oerjan: You made a laugh appear. 21:23:09 and none of the options that should tell it to just go with it seem to have any effect 21:23:39 "Anyone who has watched cuttlefish will know that if there was ever an animal that wears its heart on its sleeve, it is Sepia." :3 21:25:11 meanwhile, aimake currently crashes mingw ld 21:25:19 and nonetheless works 21:25:21 yay! 21:25:26 you just get the dialog box popping up telling you that ld crashed 21:25:42 Bike: <3 21:25:43 it crashes after finishing the output file? 21:25:54 olsner: well I'm running under -t to try to locate the system libraries 21:26:18 however, the system libraries are static libraries, thus they won't normally be mentioned unless at least one symbol in them is referenced 21:26:29 so my solution was to use --whole-archive to tell it to just link the whole thing 21:26:32 Bike, kmc: I'm watching you. any attempt at eating my bot will result to your extradition to Canada. in winter. 21:27:18 why does metasepia even have a shirt 21:27:35 a shirt? 21:27:46 s/to/in/ 21:27:53 s/in/with/ 21:28:07 anyway, my DLL reverse export problem has quite a lot of freedom 21:28:17 the Great Preposition Shift 21:28:37 I'm allowed (allowing myself) to assume mingw gcc, mingw ld, and can put arbitrary attributes on the variables in question, at both the importing and exporting sites 21:29:12 is the variable dllimport:ed when building Y? 21:29:24 olsner: I can choose 21:29:28 atm I'm putting a dllimport on it 21:29:37 because it seems unlikely to work if I don't 21:29:39 however, it doesn't work anyway 21:29:51 (it just changes whether the linker contains about a missing "variable" or "__imp_variable") 21:30:12 hmm, yes, that would need to work for it to work with that alone 21:30:13 ais523: so is this also a step to making nethack4 work on windows 21:30:18 oerjan: yes, how did you guess? 21:30:35 ais523: Have you tried making a "fake" DLL that defines all those symbols, then an import library for that, and then use that when linking the DLL? (Disclaimer: probably won't work.) 21:30:39 actually I could just statically link everything, but I'm trying to keep the nitrohack code as originally intended 21:30:50 ais523: i've been stalking you on reddit. 21:30:59 fizzie: if you're going to that much effort you could just put the variable in a DLL of its own, and import it in both places 21:31:18 I've always wondered what the import libraries are for on windows, maybe you need one of those for the executable's exports and link it into the dll 21:31:20 (aka "friending") 21:31:22 which is something I'm considering for if it's impossible to do it the intended ways 21:31:41 ais523: Oh, I sort of assumed you can't change the program. 21:31:46 olsner: that would require each of the executable and DLL to be built before the other 21:31:53 fizzie: well I'm trying to get aimake to do this automatically 21:32:00 it can't change the program in anything other than very simple, mechanical ways 21:32:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:32:46 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:50 like, nothing requiring strong AI, please 21:32:55 Snowflake was bad enough ;) 21:32:58 * ;-) 21:33:30 perhaps the problem is that --no-undefined is default on windows and you need to disable it 21:33:58 olsner: I was wondering about that 21:34:08 the problem is that it doesn't seem to have an opposite 21:34:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:34:14 I haven't tried --no-no-undefined yet, I guess 21:34:20 (--undefined means something entirely different) 21:34:31 how logical. 21:39:52 http://www.sourceware.org/autobook/autobook/autobook_88.html "Unfortunately, there are some architectures (notably AIX and Windows) which require that all symbols are resolved when the library is linked." 21:40:30 oerjan: thanks 21:40:34 ais523: MSVC has a "delayed loading" feature which essentially makes the linker include LoadLibrary/GetProcAddress code to do the linking at first call/use. Something along those lines might work, but I don't think MinGW includes a similar feature. 21:40:35 My plan to run diagrams on an RPi has hit a flaw 21:40:53 now, I guess my big moral question is, should I remove the (already-working) reverse import feature on Linux, on the basis that it makes programs less portable? 21:42:03 Taneb: is it TH? 21:42:14 oerjan, no, I got past that 21:42:22 It's gtk taking aaaages to compile 21:42:34 fancy 21:43:18 what actually is diagrams 21:43:30 Phantom_Hoover, Haskell library for drawing pretty pictures 21:43:51 it's pretty great 21:43:52 Huh, mingw-w64 in fact does support delay-loaded libs. But it does not seem immediately useful for your use case, it's just a dlltool option that can make an import library that does the delay-loading. 21:45:06 wait, you can make diagrams in haskell? 21:45:17 "-add-indirect: Specifies that when dlltool is creating the exports file it should add a section which allows the exported functions to be referenced without using the import library. Whatever the hell that means!" (dlltool manual) 21:45:23 http://projects.haskell.org/diagrams/gallery.html 21:46:31 I think I'll just leave it running overnight 21:47:13 fizzie: mingw can link to DLLs directly without going through the import library 21:47:18 Taneb: You could cross-compile your things on a Real Computer. (And AIUI you can get a Real Computer with a nickel.) 21:47:37 fizzie, but that takes eeeeffooort 21:47:40 presumably, on the basis that it's possible to mechanically create an import library from a DLL, so the linker may as well do that itself 21:49:21 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:50:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:50:47 bleh, why don't domain names tab-complete 21:51:05 ais523: Anyhow, you can (at least in theory) make an import library for the executable before linking it, by constructing a .def file containing the exported symbols and then processing that with dlltool. Then you might attempt to link the DLL against that, and the executable against the DLL. 21:51:28 I doubt it would work due to loading order 21:51:30 I wouldn't rank the chances of that working terribly high, but you never know. 21:52:35 hmm, someone's been trying to access pages like /admin.php on my server 21:52:38 I don't even have PHP installed! 21:52:56 I guess this is what drive-by attacks against webservers look like 21:53:03 <-- "beanish" is what xkcd forumers call the invented language in xkcd's "time" story. 21:53:06 oops 21:53:10 mischan? 21:53:12 kmc: ^ 21:53:24 ais523: no, just forgot to include kmc's quote :P 21:53:58 ais523: yeah if you run a webserver on a public IP you will get loads of that kind of thing 21:54:01 every day 21:54:09 if you run a SSH server on a public IP you will get a lot of password guessing attempts 21:54:18 imo don't put a SSH server on the public internet if it accepts passowrds at all 21:55:18 kmc: I have fail2ban installed 21:55:33 also a username that's unlikely to be guessed without human interaction, and a non-dictionary password 21:55:55 those drive-by ssh attacks don't catch anyone even slightly competent, they just spam the logs 21:56:11 -!- conehead has joined. 21:58:26 -!- Bike has joined. 21:59:22 ais523: Heh. The procedure I described is able to generate an executable. Sadly, I don't have a Wine installation or a Windows VM or a running Windows box handy at the moment, so I don't know what it'd say when trying to run that file. 22:00:28 my guess is segfault 22:00:36 but I'll try it some time just to see what happens 22:00:40 assuming I even have dlltool installed 22:00:44 @tell boily I am at kannada. <-- ಠ_ಠ 22:00:44 Consider it noted. 22:00:45 ¯|¯⌠ 22:00:45 /< | 22:01:05 ais523: http://sprunge.us/JNPg is what I did, for the record. 22:02:07 I'm not surprised it links; I'd think it has a very high chance of linking 22:02:15 you told the DLL that it'd be getting the variable from another DLL, so it linked 22:02:19 Hmm. " : No such file or directory", is what Wine at work says. 22:02:25 and you told the executable that it'd be linking to the DLL, so it's fine too 22:03:33 Though it seems to say that for everything, perhaps a non-worky Wine install. 22:04:06 Oh, an old broken ~/.wine symlink. 22:04:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:04:47 -!- conehead has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:04:51 `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA'; unicode 'LOW LINE'; unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 22:04:54 ​ಠ \ _ \ ಠ 22:05:08 ais523: 22:05:11 [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ wine ./app.exe 22:05:11 [htkallas@pc112 ~/tmp/ww]$ echo $? 22:05:11 42 22:05:15 What say you to that? 22:05:28 `quote pressure 22:05:30 603) Just about all females often feel that exactly why all Hollywood stars common maintain its brightness as Tom in spite of frantic operate routine and large operate pressure from the skin. What do you think that they have got sufficient time to observe all attractiveness strategies and tips that his grandmother utilized to abide by? \ 7 22:05:33 wat 22:05:38 (Disclaimer: not tested on an actual Windows system.) 22:05:39 `quote apply pressure 22:05:41 oerjan: it was a spambot 22:05:41 1018) ◊_______________________◊ help. jesus christ elliott apply pressure evenly when jamming eyes open 22:05:45 I love that apps in Wine can make native Linux syscalls too 22:05:50 that I quoted in-channel 22:05:52 ais523: what? 22:05:56 i don't even understand why i said that 22:06:09 oerjan: I thought it was particularly amusing spam 22:06:11 it makes me want to write Linux malware that masquerades as a Windows game 22:06:12 kmc, isn't that inevitable? 22:06:13 so I pasted it in the channel 22:06:17 then it got quoted 22:06:27 Phantom_Hoover: why shouldn't I love inevitable things 22:06:30 kmc: neat, you could make it Windows malware too 22:06:48 Phantom_Hoover: it's not what you'd expect if you (wrongly) believed wine is a full "emulator" 22:07:09 elliott: Hourglass has similar issues, of spilling out to the surrounding system 22:07:20 Web of Lies attempts to deal with the issue via sandboxing as well as syscall translation 22:07:23 hourglass? 22:07:28 I wonder if JITs in any actual emulators have vulnerabilities/code execution issues 22:07:28 i admittedly only 'got' it when hanging around with microcosm 22:07:41 think web of lies but for Windows, even less reliable, but less insane 22:07:47 it's not mine, nitsuja wrote it 22:08:03 Fiora: I doubt it's impossible 22:08:08 that';s the thing used in the windows game TASes right 22:08:18 I spent some time looking for bugs in dosbox 22:08:19 as in, it's probably happened somewhere 22:08:21 mnoqy: yes 22:08:24 it's easy to make it deref a null pointer and crash 22:08:26 `url bin/unicode 22:08:28 ais523: Incidentally, the concept of using a .DEF file to handle circular dependencies within DLLs is documented in MSDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/kkt2hd12%28v=VS.90%29.aspx 22:08:28 so like you can change the syscalls in the kernel, right? 22:08:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/unicode 22:08:35 aiui that's what hackego does 22:08:47 ais523: I suppose the case of the program and DLL is not very far from two DLLs depending on each other, really. 22:08:55 (So maybe it'd work outside Wine too.) 22:09:03 oh. 22:09:18 `run unicode 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 'LOW LINE' 'KANNADA LETTER TTHA' 22:09:20 ​ಠ_ಠ 22:09:30 fizzie: it even mentions it works for an executable an library that depend on each other 22:09:35 so I guess this is what I will have to make aimake do 22:09:43 ais523: Oh, I didn't read it all that closely. 22:10:02 darn i should have @told boily that instead. 22:10:11 missed opportunity. 22:10:13 `run unicode 'SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW' 22:10:15 ​⛄ 22:10:46 impossible 22:11:39 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:11:43 kannada oh kannada i never was your son 22:12:22 `run unicode 22:12:24 No output. 22:13:29 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T' 22:13:31 fungut 22:13:35 so close 22:13:38 `run unicode 'LATIN SMALL LETTER F' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER U' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER N' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER G' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER O' 'LATIN SMALL LETTER T' 22:13:40 fungot 22:13:47 but fungot ignores HackEgo doesn't it... 22:13:47 kmc: pro. but loue first learned in a ladies lappe, and decke the temples of mars, whose spirit in you fnord the bringer out of the bloody fingers of thy foes. 22:13:48 so sad 22:13:56 `run unicode rm -rf / 22:13:58 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'rm'" 22:14:04 mnoqy: nice 1 22:14:25 `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL RIGHT WHITE LENTICULAR BRAKCET' 22:14:27 ​︘ 22:14:40 kmc: more importantly, HackEgo adds the initial zero-width space. 22:14:51 hmm what 22:14:57 `run unicode 'PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LEFT WHITE LENTICULAR BRACKET' 22:14:59 ​︗ 22:15:03 those are backwards :/ 22:15:08 oh hm i guess that wouldn't affect babbling. 22:16:17 coppro: i dunno they look identical to me 22:18:35 interesting, these brackets seem to make irssi glitch 22:20:03 i didn't notice any glitch. although sometimes i see fanciful unicode take a while to appear, but i guess that's on the font lookup end of putty? 22:20:37 00:164:50 ok, i didn't see that, also my own message got in between. 22:21:13 try ^L 22:21:52 hm i guess tmux would neutralize ^L ... 22:22:08 yeah, ^L fixes that, but it reappears if i change windows 22:22:24 There's always /clear. 22:22:26 oh well everything i s bugy 22:22:30 oerjan: the right one is concave down on my irssi 22:23:07 but it's supposed to be concave up 22:23:13 and the opposite is true for the left 22:23:19 * coppro tries to figure what font that is 22:23:23 * oerjan checks logs with browser, oh so that is how it's supposed to look. 22:23:57 it looks right for me 22:24:02 i just see a narrow rectangle in irssi/putty. 22:24:05 * coppro blames unifont 22:24:15 myname: the right brakcet is concave up? 22:24:22 yeah 22:24:35 which is identical for the two, but not the same as the usual "unknown character". 22:32:56 `unicode REPLACEMENT CHARACTER 22:32:57 ​� 22:33:38 https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-September/005678.html ASCII control characters STX and ETX make great string literal delimeters for a programming language, right? 22:36:51 well, at least it's not an argument about comment syntax 22:36:59 yeah it's about string literal syntax 22:37:06 I know, reading it now 22:37:15 the two are weirdly related though 22:37:37 fun fact: a bug in the NHGPL made me have to change the text tile format parser, just so I could add comments to the files specifying that I'd changed them 22:37:49 traditionally comments and strings are the two constructs which let you suspend the normal lexical rules of the language for an arbitrary span of characters 22:37:54 and they interact in weird ways 22:37:56 actually the NHGPL doesn't really make much sense in the context of DVCSes 22:38:04 heh 22:38:49 anyway, I'm pretty sure that the NetHack devteam aren't following it to the letter 22:39:23 so I'm just trying to follow it as best I can, and if they sue me over it, I'll claim I was following it more precisely than they were, and the way they were acting gave me the impression that they considered that interpretation of the NHGPL acceptable 22:40:17 sounds like a plan. 22:40:48 is the bug that change notices have to be in the same file? 22:41:41 oerjan: yes 22:42:23 -!- conehead has joined. 22:43:15 think i might be the only person left on earth who ever has a browser window that isn't full screen 22:43:20 judging by trends in web design 22:43:24 kmc: I do sometimes, but I normally fullscreen it 22:43:57 oerjan: I remember I asked you that once before, but is 3-cell brainfuck still turing-complete if we replace > and < with naming the cells? 22:43:58 kmc: no me too, because i like to be able to see if there's irc activity behind it 22:44:15 (so basically, forbid unmatched > and < in the brainfuck program) 22:44:40 Koen__: yes, the collatz function reduction doesn't use unmatched <>s 22:44:46 thank you 22:45:30 i don't even have windows that aren't full screen `-` 22:46:06 Bike: I tend to be quite consistent about which windows I fullscreen, and which I leave floating 22:46:29 normally floating windows are things I use to amuse myself during long compiles, or else are always-on-topped things I want to keep an eye on 22:46:33 Koen__: i tried for quite a while to see if there was any way to _use_ unmatched >< to get around my problems before finding the collatz functions, but i couldn't think of anything it helped with when you just have 3 cells. 22:46:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:46:41 if I need to keep an eye on two things that fill the screen, I just alpha-blend them 22:46:47 it's confusing but not impossible to read 22:47:06 it helps with making algorithms harder to predict :-) 22:47:07 I like to have docs and code side by side 22:47:28 Koen__: also i still haven't found a way to split up the final integer produced for printing. :( 22:47:42 split up? 22:48:09 I'm not really sure I know how to look at the collatz sequences to consider them a programming language 22:48:10 https://github.com/mzeo/xslt-brainfuck because fuck you :D 22:48:17 i love it 22:48:54 Koen__: as in, i haven't found a way to compute arbitrary output with just 3 cells. 22:49:04 (as a function of input.) 22:49:13 alright 22:51:44 Koen__: you just program in fractran and convert that to a collatz function. 22:52:02 okay 22:53:58 and that again is essentially programming a minsky machine, except the registers are prime exponents and you need some flag bits or similar to control flow. 22:54:52 (the flag bits are also prime exponents) 22:55:54 and any non-IO using bf program without unmatched <> can be mechanically converted to a minsky machine. 22:56:56 (without unmatched <>, as you noted, you essentially have named cells, which is the same as minsky machine registers.) 22:57:32 oh hm i guess you want the bf program not to use negative numbers :) 22:57:50 I don't really care about negative numbers, I think 22:57:52 (or wrapping, naturally) 22:57:53 hmm, not sure 22:58:05 well wrapping in 3-cell brainfuck would mean the cells are bounded 22:58:10 that would be quite inconvenient 22:59:00 what if it only wraps in one direction 22:59:02 indeed. btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages. 22:59:23 ais523: then that would make it irreversible! 22:59:46 bf isn't reversible. 22:59:58 then that would make it even less so 23:00:00 or you mean, impossible to undo in any way 23:00:13 yeah I know [-] is hard to undo 23:00:33 any way all bf mentions in the above are intended to have unbounded cells. 23:01:15 bf implementation where incrementing a cell at its max value makes the increment spill into a random nearby cell 23:01:19 not sure what you meant with "btw i'm not saying you use 3-cell brainfuck to _start_ with, you can use an arbitrary bounded number of cells to reduce through the path of languages." 23:01:22 hmm, what about we make it wrap from -1 to 0, 256 to 0, and include a "square" instruction 23:01:28 but as usual, two unbounded registers is enough to simulate a tape of bounded ones. 23:01:46 so you can get vaues above 256 23:01:55 I think it's from -1 to 255? 23:02:28 Koen__: i mean what i've described can be used as unbounded n-cell bf -> n-register minsky machine -> fractran -> collatz function -> unbounded 3-cell bf 23:02:33 Koen__: sure? I'm not 23:03:31 Bike: :D 23:05:03 Koen__: psst he's slyly referring to another language with a fishy smell 23:05:31 oerjan: we need a new featured language, really 23:05:40 ais523: neither am I 23:05:53 oerjan: hmmmmm is that the new fisherman language? 23:05:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:06:07 Koen__: are you being dense tcnh 23:06:10 also why do I have two _ in my name 23:06:23 I only had one this morning 23:06:29 (i didn't mean to misspell the acronyum but when i did i'll take advantage of it) 23:07:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:10 Koen__: because you pinged out at some point? 23:07:24 DID I 23:07:45 quite possibly. 23:07:51 I would ping back in but I'm quite lazy 23:18:28 -!- Bike has joined. 23:24:02 gah, the fucking bbc still won't air parks and rec season 3 23:24:17 fuckers 23:24:36 get a free trial EC2 VM in the US and proxy Hulu through it 23:24:42 or you know, bittorrent 23:24:52 hmm 23:25:24 i hope i can still torrent in this year's flat... 23:29:07 imo move to sweden 23:29:33 i will shove your elbows down your fucking gullet 23:30:15 channeling malcolm tucker are we 23:30:35 one of many BBC shows on Hulu :3 23:32:07 fucking americans 23:32:11 fucking capitalism 23:32:37 :D 23:34:06 can't wait for the tories to get around to gutting them 23:34:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:33 lol 23:34:51 privatize the BBC and then buy it back later at a massive loss, just like the railroads 23:35:07 actually I don't know if the govt took a loss on rail infrastructure or not 23:35:20 but iirc they had to take over a lot of it because the trains kept crashing 23:35:43 kmc: I actually did some work experience with Network Rail 23:36:02 it's sort-of partly public, partly private, as far as I can tell 23:36:19 i wonder if bbc scotland would split off if scotland became independent 23:36:35 shouldn't it be sbc 23:36:49 well it would be if it was split off 23:37:37 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:38:00 well Scotland is still part of Britain, officially 23:38:05 so the name's still accurate 23:38:09 although a little weird 23:38:29 it'd be like calling the BBC the "European Broadcasting Company Britain" 23:38:35 "if scotland became independent" 23:38:41 that would also be inaccurate 23:39:13 in that it implies that "EBC Britain" is part of or at least subordinate to the EBC 23:39:56 i like how we're assuming 'britain' is a well-defined entity here, too 23:42:25 more like britain't 23:52:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:57:04 Provisional BBC, Real BBC 23:57:35 continuity bbc 23:59:29 Phantom_Hoover: well the island is well-defined 23:59:37 apart from that, there's not that much in the way of precise definitions 23:59:58 I guess the archipelago is also well-defined, even if there's a ridiculously long ongoing edit war on Wikipedia over what to call it