< 1378944768 318113 :audioPhil!~quassel@unaffiliated/audiophil1 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1378944804 257840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: there's no \omicron < 1378944813 361706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just typing an o would seem wrong < 1378944830 532915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I could try to find one in Unicode, although LaTeX+Unicode is its own brand of "fun" < 1378944872 973557 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the latex way that you just type an o < 1378944901 275842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's a different letter < 1378944904 395873 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1378944911 64578 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega is literally greek for 'big o' < 1378944922 435308 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1378944948 399645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: and omicron is greek for 'small o' < 1378944958 267979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1378944961 347803 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind = blown < 1378944962 178998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I never notice this before now < 1378944968 837015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, an omicron looks enough like an o that if someone slipped one into the conversation, I wouldn't notice < 1378944988 583127 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah, although i thought 'big o' was more amusing < 1378944999 228426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega notation < 1378945021 852287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these is an omicron: ooο < 1378945024 221147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess which one! < 1378945029 887489 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsο that sοunds like a great way of pοintlessly cοmplicating text < 1378945078 423278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have enough of a programming mind to assume that an o and an ο can always be distinguished given enough effort < 1378945079 581113 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure they used that kind of tricks to prevent students from copying lines from the subject into our programs < 1378945085 131058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :οοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοοο < 1378945090 340568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooo < 1378945097 492575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no visible difference in this font < 1378945106 549694 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second there i thought ais was just really interested by something < 1378945109 607550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: why would thy want to prevent you doing that? < 1378945117 138781 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my font the difference is a 1px offset < 1378945122 799592 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they give you the prototype of a function with an extremely long name and a quintillion arguments, but no, you have to type it all by yourself because some of the letters aren't the letters you think and won't compile < 1378945131 937719 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do I know < 1378945144 442198 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggn. make a thing to normalise it < 1378945153 822137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: do you get the exercise as PDFs? it could just be an encoding issue in LaTeX < 1378945162 779722 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1378945164 496111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened all the time with the exercises my predecessors gave the students < 1378945174 50991 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn latex :( < 1378945174 223075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it inserting spaces into identifiers was even more of a problem < 1378945182 373157 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggn. add. use ocr for this purpose < 1378945213 203847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in LyX, it seems to be fixable via a) telling it to turn off fontenc, and b) repeatedly setting the language to "reset" even though you never changed it < 1378945335 949642 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apropopos of nothing, i saw this story on /r/math about a guy who was trying to remove all the formatting stuff from a latex document < 1378945341 776095 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he googled 'latex stripper' < 1378945347 70269 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1378945356 974531 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1378945360 11372 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the best part was, the results were what he was looking for < 1378945361 220652 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1378945379 345700 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just tricking us into googling it < 1378945383 741731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have had safesearch on? < 1378945389 567908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have been very strongly bubbled < 1378945398 719683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also only one result would need to be correct for it to be useful < 1378945447 427776 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just googled it < 1378945461 621956 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first two results are about... stripping latex paint from wood < 1378945471 393482 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next five are all exactly what you'd expect < 1378945490 159374 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@google latex stripper < 1378945493 183559 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google latex stripper < 1378945495 375476 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://toolmonger.com/2009/09/25/reader-question-stripping-latex-paint/ < 1378945495 520841 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Reader Question: Stripping Latex Paint | Toolmonger < 1378945514 605347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what I'd expect < 1378945517 552029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given the context < 1378945541 94720 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people stripping < 1378945544 334337 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst wearing latex < 1378945590 447044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1378945593 109797 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably expect feminine people < 1378945597 510617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that was a strong possibility < 1378945635 799390 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about people stripping from wearing latex??????how about it < 1378945713 188277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this sort of thing is why Ubuntu use adjective animals for their version name < 1378945720 979870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that there's at least a chance of being able to websearch them < 1378945818 268123 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x does that as well < 1378945853 67169 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we be afraid of finding articles about houses with eight windows? < 1378945950 430709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those are probably more worksafe than latex strippers < 1378946008 20046 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :latew strippers make up a good story < 1378946035 356410 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a good cover story if you get caught looking for porn < 1378946117 623026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1378946615 286574 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so good if you're not into latex < 1378946617 56212 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strippers < 1378946753 853637 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously considered writing verilog macrology to turn truth tables into PoS for me. apparently verilog macros suck < 1378946774 242279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does PoS stand for there? < 1378946777 497545 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :product of sums < 1378946778 763025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I recommend a code generator < 1378946782 602435 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wrote one < 1378946785 195538 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still annoying < 1378946794 69981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why that way round? sum of products is more common < 1378946800 324514 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's homework. < 1378946803 327937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's where the upsilon came from, actually) < 1378946811 95292 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you turn truth tables into PoS using any other programming language than verilog macros? < 1378946816 41729 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. that is what i did. < 1378946835 283294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use a K-map < 1378946841 104641 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, semirelated, why do ctrl-c/v and ctrl/shift-insert use different clipboards, and how do i not... how do i fix this < 1378946843 169744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what they were invented for < 1378946850 301200 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: literally have to write out a pos expression. < 1378946861 489001 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"piece of shit" is running through my mind, i assure you. < 1378946899 821989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to find some way to interpret it as "point of sale" < 1378946901 407568 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose in x they're probably called "buffers" or "rings" or something else weird < 1378946921 725688 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a truth table is trivially converted into a sum of products, and then you just have to factor that product < 1378946922 585064 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just urxvt. anyway, ugh < 1378946933 534643 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :koen i know how to do this. i'm just complaining because it's really dull < 1378946959 932116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: X actually has like 10 clipboards < 1378946960 435757 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is that always possible?) < 1378946963 774020 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1378946968 770735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but two of them are the most commonly used < 1378946979 86170 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is that for some kind of "logic class"? < 1378946982 178070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that copy-paste is meant to use (PRIMARY), and a temporary one that exists whenever you select anything < 1378946985 394385 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to be able to paste from emacs to xilinx. < 1378947003 58476 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: circuit design. i already took intro logic and got pissed off at truth tables there < 1378947013 703235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: if it's an old or misconfigured Emacs, you'll have to choose copy from the menus < 1378947014 9429 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1378947021 544560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using any of Emacs' copy-like keyboard inputs < 1378947035 198549 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think it's urxvt, i'm using ctrl-insert for copy and it works between terms but not into something modern < 1378947035 343906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's very old, the only way I found to do it involved some custom elisp < 1378947042 161650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I only got it working like 50% of the time < 1378947052 971743 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate computers. < 1378947067 377112 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll just write it all into a file because you know what? fuck. fuck < 1378947119 43333 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I took intro logic and got into an argument with the teacher because in my opinion she was trying to teach the students that the most obvious, basic common sense was not at all obvious but rather some kind of dull boolean arithmetic with complicated laws < 1378947130 203297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go, possibly the first elisp I ever wrote: http://sprunge.us/ebPQ < 1378947133 58686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was on SunOS < 1378947145 206779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where my first esolanging also took place < 1378947145 900607 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: my professor got fired. < 1378947151 592452 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1378947176 339573 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you talking about the Aristotle/Boole thing? < 1378947181 82900 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That annoyed some of my CSy friends. < 1378947242 912724 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh there kind of are complicated laws? Like, de morgan's is pretty easy but i wouldn't call it "common sense" exactly < 1378947252 209252 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :de morgan's are*, whatever < 1378947266 660928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well I was struggling with this literally last night < 1378947272 44474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a boolean expression < 1378947283 635938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to determine if it's a contradiction or not entirely using rewrite rules < 1378947287 432112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they can only apply at the top level < 1378947308 296384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to keep the set reasonably small (not necessarily golfed, but not with very large or unreadable rules) < 1378947316 446690 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm that does sound annoying < 1378947321 549299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and this is a proper parse tree with binary and and or < 1378947326 846356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no n-ary versions < 1378947339 32778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, I found a way to avoid having to solve the problem < 1378947349 941265 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the spirit! < 1378947360 940663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because it felt a lot like esolang design, and it was an inappropriate venue for that < 1378947376 193924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I'm almost convinced that the simplest solution is unexpectedly complex < 1378947422 438558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of when Snowflake had two stack manip instructions: one which rotated or unrotated the top three elements < 1378947429 364021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one which moved the top stack element to the bottom, or vice versa < 1378947438 866940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this turns out to not be enough to implement swap < 1378947456 335489 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of wish that i could turn in my generator with the assignment, oh well. < 1378947459 487377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I later removed the second of those instructions to make programming in it more interesting, because it turned out not to be needed for anything I wanted to do) < 1378948040 671897 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i generated some pices of shot. good enough for me < 1378948169 27752 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is de morgan's the thing with not(a and b) = (not a) or (not b)? < 1378948190 411373 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just common sense, yes < 1378948225 938801 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and" and "or" make sense not just as truth tables but because they actually mean something < 1378948293 506293 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not common sense in that you don't generally have to teach it. < 1378948340 952245 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't believe you should have to teach that as some theorem < 1378948353 669234 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be taught as axiomatic? < 1378948361 58068 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1378948376 65041 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as "think about it, that's logic and it makes sense and you can figure it out yourself" < 1378948394 126278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise humans are kind of awful at thinking logically? < 1378948404 407125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we invent formal systems, with rules, that you can teach people, and prove things with. < 1378948422 874260 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's scary and sad < 1378948435 161749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we don't have to appeal to some common sense that isn't really all that common -- for instance, in natural language "or" often means something closer to "xor" < 1378948459 863936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and logical implication and "if ..., then ..." have a very tricky and unclear relationship, lots of arguments about the best way to model it < 1378948469 567647 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only scary if you expected people to think like this logical system you dreamed up. < 1378948488 38578 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "a or b" always means "a or b", but sometimes the context has an implicit "if you pick a you won't get a chance to pick b" < 1378948498 196012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think it's scary, I just think you're being a bit arrogant about the material :P even if it's intuitively obvious when stated as an English sentence, that doesn't mean it's not important to teach in a formal context < 1378948501 160882 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it doesn't always mean "a or b". < 1378948504 477336 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what you just said. < 1378948519 705915 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not saying formal is useless, far from it < 1378948552 930332 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what I just said is that the only difference between formal and everyday is that everyday has implicit stuff < 1378948570 622373 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of a huge difference? < 1378948589 282573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: writing mathematical papers in English is a pain < 1378948594 802864 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so big; you could formalize everyday by explicitating the implicit thing < 1378948594 947908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have to spell out which is meant every time I use "or" < 1378948603 612238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my supervisor apparently doesn't understand "and/or" < 1378948617 176769 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abhor and/or < 1378948622 933069 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case you show that spoken "a or b" means formal "a xor b", apparently? < 1378948642 367247 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: spoken "a or b" doesn't necessarily means formal "a xor b" Bike < 1378948653 867506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it does, but not always < 1378948658 402803 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like there's no simple mapping to formal concepts < 1378948677 597368 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slightly bitter about this general idea for other reasons. i apologize. < 1378948677 933309 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is you just need to figure out what was implicitly assumed < 1378948685 935281 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't simple. < 1378948696 712054 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you've managed to survive life for so long < 1378948703 150628 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently it's not so difficult < 1378948709 675935 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1378948717 977786 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life doesn't have these formal concepts in it, usually. < 1378948735 863971 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everyday life has everyday concepts surely < 1378948736 943572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're a bit confused as to what the point of formal logic is :/ < 1378948752 187038 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it has everyday concepts. < 1378948762 951603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the teacher isn't really telling you about de Morgan's laws so you can use them in everyday reasoning where you wouldn't be able to before. < 1378948764 608570 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deal with everyday concepts without thinking of formal xor at all, generally. < 1378948768 482132 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I'm not denying formal logic may have a point but formal logic as it is taught at our university surely fails to make its point < 1378948772 525974 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's never come up. < 1378948784 855850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there was a shop (sadly, now closed) on the way to the University which advertised with contrapositives < 1378948794 42561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't buy a bed today, you are not in Beds Directs! < 1378948796 533556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Beds Direct < 1378948807 665688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how effective it was < 1378948813 211624 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw Bike you're a biologist right < 1378948823 580756 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would win in a fight, a pistol shrimp or a mantis shrimp < 1378948827 422998 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to elliott, and elliott is basically god, so yes < 1378948871 803599 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't know most of their behavior off the top of my head, but pistol shrimp usually deal with shelled prey, don't they? maybe they wouldn't work so well on something soft < 1378948885 894186 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mantis shrimps have shells don't they < 1378948920 427803 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know! < 1378948931 772645 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking useless < 1378948940 639035 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask someone who does!! < 1378948941 559296 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bite me motherfucker < 1378948964 840792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you two about to make out < 1378948977 237805 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't homestuck you shipping weirdo < 1378948978 308722 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're about to penis fence, as is traditional for biologists < 1378948987 347423 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i can't optimize this expression well ugh i'm incompetent < 1378948998 822624 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shit programmer and a shit biologist < 1378948998 986034 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expression? < 1378949004 750547 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaaah you're mean < 1378949014 423786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, there's chemistry here! < 1378949019 348352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does shipping work on real-life people? < 1378949020 151197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of the biology and programming < 1378949029 494076 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~(C+D)(A^B))|(~(CD)(A^B)) < 1378949034 677634 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something obvious but i can't think of it. < 1378949046 985664 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, they made quite a business of it back in the 18th century < 1378949055 496981 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between C+D and CD? < 1378949058 391677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: factor out the A xor Bs < 1378949059 767543 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1378949062 815011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: or versus and < 1378949065 359179 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C|D and C*D if you want < 1378949067 327340 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. but what's |? < 1378949069 910396 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1378949072 14649 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1378949073 417909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, are | and + both or? < 1378949075 225086 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow factoring yes < 1378949078 864196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder people are confused < 1378949082 941905 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cf incompetence :( < 1378949087 804112 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought + was xor < 1378949092 491610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ^ was xor < 1378949094 564064 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's + with a circle < 1378949097 767717 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is xor you know what never mind < 1378949102 636210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ABCD aren't booleans and it's bitwise or vs. addition! < 1378949109 799735 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : thought ^ was and < 1378949111 565999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike just said "expression". < 1378949116 480113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case I insist on interpreting it as OIL < 1378949118 616479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the ones making assumptions here! < 1378949120 963957 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i meant lie groups < 1378949122 38324 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!! < 1378949128 287481 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my circuit design class. < 1378949128 432771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, err, it's pretty much what elliott suggested, just with more syntax errors < 1378949150 337340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: fix your operand names < 1378949151 180367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something beautiful about using concatenation for multiplication at the same time as bitwise operators. < 1378949156 609816 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never < 1378949163 488306 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is (~(C+D))|(~(C|D)) just ~(C+D)? < 1378949174 556256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one or the other < 1378949179 452862 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry < 1378949183 754995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too jaded to work out which, because I was doing that all night < 1378949187 829707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with \oplus and \odot < 1378949200 164798 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant like isn't it the same unless I'm just reading it wrong or something < 1378949209 210828 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote it wrong < 1378949230 990594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: I tried to parse your line as a haiku, because of the spaces < 1378949232 487596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't < 1378949244 689414 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? @_@ < 1378949253 260647 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :laughed irl at that < 1378949280 932522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when you see three shortish phrases < 1378949282 549128 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does make a good poem < 1378949283 402989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are separated < 1378949298 588705 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1378949309 87764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to be a proper haiku, as well as being 5/7/5, it'd also need to mention a season somewhere < 1378949328 560206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote beautiful summer < 1378949330 740776 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :433) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 1038) beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone < 1378949343 665426 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1378949343 810800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, we have two now? < 1378949346 316729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I completely forget the context to 1038. < 1378949348 778886 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote snowman without snow < 1378949350 335471 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1378949352 449725 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1378949358 965694 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW < 1378949360 805270 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1378949361 996994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like the last line of that second haiku < 1378949363 298408 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit. < 1378949364 640907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote snowman < 1378949366 188713 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1378949366 910947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the first one too, but I've seen it before < 1378949372 560816 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh /shit/ < 1378949382 66159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog snowman without snow < 1378949400 197829 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :update: i think i got it down to (A^B)CD. now going to check the truth table because god i'm a failure < 1378949408 979104 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that won't work. < 1378949411 735772 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, there we go < 1378949411 936225 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-30.txt:16:20:30: And the nicely zen U+26C4 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW. < 1378949427 760995 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe it's or < 1378949430 333890 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was ~(C+D) | (A^B) or is that the same thing < 1378949439 271505 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's different < 1378949440 529692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, esolangs.org game: keep clicking random, count how many BF derivatives you find before you reach a language you created < 1378949449 789230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're depressed by the result, create a language to improve your chances < 1378949469 319062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that only works even vaguely well if you've created a billion languages < 1378949472 595044 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I probably should have just used a kmap. < 1378949481 599367 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if one of your languages IS a bf derivative.... < 1378949488 962952 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if you find a BF derivatives *you created* < 1378949496 583309 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, fuck me < 1378949497 383808 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what if mnoqy just said that < 1378949514 450403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if I find reversible BF or The Language That Cannot BE Spelled, I'll let you know < 1378949520 161242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dofuck, but I'm not sure if that's on the wiki yet < 1378949534 172266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I just hit () twice in a row < 1378949534 317555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hit your own BF derivative you finish your drink < 1378949543 475029 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing is, i'm afraid playing your game will only result in more bf derivatives being created < 1378949558 513347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, I just hit zzo38's BF derivative < 1378949569 915938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: OK, if you hit your own BF derivative, you have to keep going < 1378949577 189041 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1378949577 880757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it impossible to create BF derivatives to escape the cycle < 1378949594 872586 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm pretty sure creating a a language diminishes your chances < 1378949596 249207 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i haven't made any languages... do i just keep going forever < 1378949604 5767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 so far < 1378949610 21038 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i going to die. tell it to me straight doc < 1378949611 708698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you make one, it's the only way to escape < 1378949615 714995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: well low scores are good < 1378949628 687001 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now hum I meant the score will get higher < 1378949633 17326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, StateFlip; that's /based/ on one of mine < 1378949643 504882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's promising < 1378949664 140750 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a 2-dimensional brainfuck derivative with booleans instead of chars? < 1378949667 380903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, 5 now, and that's the same as last time < 1378949677 609500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: no, it's a BackFlip derivative, and has nothing to do with BF < 1378949693 270659 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i make brainfuck derivatives to worsen everyone else's scores < 1378949694 683363 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :***B***ack***F***lip < 1378949696 309536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we count Schrodilang? It /might/ be a BF derivative < 1378949696 542115 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1378949701 395716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy: you'll worsen your own more < 1378949709 284619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have more languages than, say, me or cpressey < 1378949709 986149 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus i started with the wrong sum of products < 1378949719 977479 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty soon i'm going to find that i accidentally proved zfc consistent. < 1378949722 988574 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I tried playing < 1378949727 253735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 6 now < 1378949739 704263 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just realize it's possible you find a page that's neither a bf derivative nor a language you created < 1378949752 806748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, BF derivative derivative derivative < 1378949758 396316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this count or not? < 1378949767 205808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I have to go to 7, even if it /is/ by cpressey < 1378949785 650807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually most of them aren't BF derivatives < 1378949791 370697 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i just went through like 5 pages without hitting a bf derivative, I think that's a record? < 1378949807 317988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I often manage more than that < 1378949810 531548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 8 now though :( < 1378949839 337180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :9, and a particularly bad example < 1378949864 116177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I just realised I have 3 BF derivatives < 1378949874 479145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one of them was linked from the page I was just on (which isn't a language, so it didn't increase my score) < 1378949904 714438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm not sure whether x-D counts < 1378949927 489881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't claim to be a BF derivative, nor does it particularly look like a BF deriv page < 1378949948 91995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it isn't < 1378949957 927025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tape < 1378949965 49458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just it looks like it embeds BF's commands, that's all < 1378949970 254229 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm already at 10 bf derivatives, and in case of doubt I didn't count the languages as bf derivatives < 1378949978 405996 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it need to have a tape to be a bf deriv < 1378949978 551634 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haven't found a language of mine yet < 1378949988 532298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 too < 1378949999 6885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy: it has to have some strong similarity < 1378950010 784629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't have a tape, it's not a BF deriv unless its instructions are clearly based on BF's < 1378950024 529712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, oklopol brings me to 11 < 1378950030 673742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's depressing how many of these are by channel regulars < 1378950060 164918 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1378950068 94469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1378950076 159145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a page about two of my languages, neither of which are BF derivs < 1378950080 774026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a language page itself < 1378950084 122165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't count :( < 1378950144 825069 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378950148 648614 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just hit 20 bf derivatives and still no sign of myself < 1378950156 132335 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I did hit some pages four times < 1378950237 803667 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm depressed by the result but I'm gonna go to bed rather than create a language < 1378950309 115603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm on 20 < 1378950314 928260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hit () a lot? < 1378950325 790211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki's Special:Random is a little weirdly distributed < 1378950329 88517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prefers some pages to others < 1378950420 485905 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't hit () at all < 1378950422 116301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, after 24, I hit C-INTERCAL < 1378950433 730600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm tempted to count that, given the circumstances < 1378950436 571301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll keep going anyway < 1378950453 164297 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hit C-Intercal but I think countint it would be more than bending the rules < 1378950473 239638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: well you haven't invented many of the commands and maintained the interp < 1378950480 959700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, it clearly doesn't count for /you/ :) < 1378950485 201696 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have never written a single line of program in intercal and don't even know what that would look like < 1378950508 738380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I get to not count 2D BF because it's a page talking about BF derivs < 1378950512 791794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a BF deriv in its own right < 1378950536 242255 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was tempted not to count it but I had lost count anyway < 1378950556 881949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now Backtracking INTERCAL, which I wrote the first impl of < 1378950584 478368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know what's up with http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=%E2%99%A6 ? < 1378950620 763528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :30… < 1378950632 730798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously thought it'd be much lower than that < 1378950639 594556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there are a /lot/ of BF derivs out there < 1378950657 501963 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1378950671 585146 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378950712 841125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see the talk page, if you want to be even more confused < 1378950722 804092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it cleared things up for me < 1378950728 397019 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes irritatedly that xnor(a,b,c) != xnor(xnor(a,b),c) < 1378950772 455111 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that associativity? i'm too hungry to think about it < 1378950796 414601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now 40 < 1378950813 477172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, not associative < 1378950851 791357 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any good way to write xnor(a,b,c) with binary operator < 1378950852 445715 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1378950854 904888 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is there a standard definition for n-ary nxor? < 1378950869 866506 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they're all the same" is what i'm using < 1378950870 993367 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentally < 1378950883 503257 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1378950903 142854 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(¬a&¬b&¬c)|(a&b&c) if you like, i guess < 1378950907 729384 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i'll write that. sux < 1378950909 342015 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah == cannot be chained in C < 1378950951 446371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, can I please count Radixal!!!!? < 1378950956 799413 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1378950962 264380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case I score 45 < 1378950963 731227 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.project-veripage.com/pmd.php oh god < 1378950964 891625 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1378950981 502015 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My simulator does not support Parameterized Macro Definition." why is this a property of the simulator < 1378950984 777546 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh fuck it i'm getting food < 1378951129 577206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only scored 9 that time < 1378951154 271928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, I hit a language which I worked out the details and wrote the spec for, but wasn't simply mine < 1378951179 367297 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a language could be a bf derivative < 1378951247 41020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quiler isn't < 1378951272 955033 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I can't think of simpler than (¬a&¬b&¬c)|(a&b&c) right now < 1378951275 424468 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo off to bed < 1378951277 289599 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1378951278 702501 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1378951332 38513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was just at 1 before I hit http://esolangs.org/wiki/Index.php < 1378951346 703167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, not a language < 1378951390 329004 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378951524 728596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: that was quick < 1378951550 982075 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep fast < 1378951568 470979 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I realized someone highlighted me just before I quit < 1378951570 916044 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I came back < 1378951584 41748 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm gonna quit again soon I promise < 1378951612 731491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, conclusions: if you want to do well at this, be either zzo38 or cpressey < 1378951663 86338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'd do better even if I were whatever ihope127's current nick is < 1378951732 78039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Ngved would be beating me on these pages :( < 1378951763 497945 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1378951810 302034 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think David/werecatt would do ok < 1378951861 990507 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay quitting again < 1378951867 331957 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1378951867 477227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he's doing well on the Special:Random favoured pages < 1378951873 730555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can you go reroll Special:Random? thx < 1378951910 71737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe tomorrow -> < 1378952013 268156 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ate but thingis are still terrible < 1378952079 205452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, more than half of these miscapitalize brainfuck < 1378952107 861300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 18 this time < 1378952109 689203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hit Black < 1378952121 202134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I like and am disappointed that it didn't get more attention < 1378952126 893093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to BackFlip < 1378952138 451940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are a /lot/ of BF derivs out there < 1378952150 700018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't understand just how bad the problem was :( < 1378952934 920311 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1378953595 231828 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1378954047 404123 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378959170 929370 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FUDGE < 1378959187 193233 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of my MIDIs have metadata such that Foobar2000 was actually able to give it a name < 1378959192 430463 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one of my MIDIs < 1378959491 888510 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a 47 minute long MIDI file < 1378959778 694692 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: is there any reason to dislike BASSMIDI? < 1378959814 948312 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait, I thought BASSMIDI was a thing that can be used to use soundfonts < 1378960185 274483 :stuntaneous!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1378960569 923768 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390156_187967128007447_1121325559_n.png i love hackers < 1378963667 590306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're so easy? < 1378963693 911156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is a very impressive logo.) < 1378963708 661806 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :syrianandproudtobe. weloveourleader. security. lions. < 1378965192 51112 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378965584 850715 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378965832 113887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1378966146 170471 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378966263 627513 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :today at work we ate an unusual cake https://twitter.com/LostOracle/status/377879038498324480/photo/1 < 1378966279 528813 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more congratulations!! < 1378966282 149338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1378966287 322896 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378966370 666190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the acid is what makes you see that background pattern, right? < 1378966464 706469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :little Servo is growing up so fast < 1378966575 44072 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1378966594 239407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even make any #drugzjokes! < 1378966632 605742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you'll tell me there were none in the cake either < 1378966856 807491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily so, from mathematics "S" is evil, but from programming it's just plain old print. <-- nah S is simple to handle mathematically, see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Rewriting_semantics < 1378966856 952573 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1378967021 406842 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1378967196 914101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an incredibly nonsensical computer-security news item from the local public broadcasting company, but it's unfortunately in Finnish, so you perhaps can't quite appreciate it. < 1378967200 994456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paraphrasing, it says (among other things): "Normally, data is stored securely by collecting so much superfluous material around it that the actual information is obscured by the unnecessary information. This is called a firewall. By reducing the mass of information a small part at a time, a hacker can access the secured information no matter how good the firewall is, as long as he has sufficient resources." < 1378967228 421806 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the local breakdancing company < 1378967274 187168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goo.gl/D2VT26 -- it really doesn't make any more sense before the translation either. < 1378967323 410344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, the "new system" description manages to be perhaps one additional step of incoherent after Google Translate has had its fun.) < 1378967776 727174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the /// page already had the proper CSS < 1378967797 970302 :douglass!~thiotimol@home.pointlesstopology.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1378968055 230252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: S is easy, it's just annoying to deal with < 1378968090 464918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask elliott Does removing white-space: pre-wrap from the /// quine make it look worse to others? < 1378968090 650103 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1378968760 27015 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Fixed that for you http://heh.fi/tmp/cake.jpeg < 1378968831 228469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you handle S purely in the original implementation? < 1378969002 631742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original impl was rewriting < 1378969009 508144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it handled everything impurely ;) < 1378969030 941896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ais523 -----### < 1378969034 182306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most more advanced impls I've been involved with used a sidechannel for S data < 1378970218 576381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: seriously, though, I have no idea what you mean by the question < 1378970256 58394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i consider rewriting to be pure < 1378970280 383704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus is a rewriting language, after all < 1378970349 150295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i'm asking if your implementation calculated an equivalent form of the program that still included the output < 1378971870 599694 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-134-3-130-100.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1378972410 68892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you have to be careful of programs like (x)S(:^):^ < 1378972422 537246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should produce output before the infinite loop happens < 1378972509 907676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is similar to weak head normal in lc and haskell < 1378972516 117089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*normal form < 1378972519 688518 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378972751 410976 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does that new system work? < 1378972772 275470 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the size of the terminal from which the information is to fade from view by hackers. Security is cancellable only within the same system, and the non-protected data appears to be a wonder-ful As a paste." < 1378973086 834504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have absolutely no idea how it works, about all I can do is to provide an arguably more accurate translation. < 1378973090 600819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "The new Unisys system works using an entirely different principle. In it, the entire device storing the information is hidden from the view of hackers. The protection can only be decrypted from within the same system, and for outside observers the information will appear as a nonsensical mess. This is possible because the information is encrypted in an earlier stage, before the IP address has been formed." < 1378973096 597124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hth" < 1378973124 949144 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks yle < 1378973129 277273 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, yle. Thyle. < 1378973143 388476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ei saa peittää < 1378973199 261337 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so the translation wasn't that bad after all < 1378973225 595611 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful as a paste = nonsensical mess < 1378973331 280674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the word "ihmeellinen" -- it has senses "wonderful, extraordinary" and "strange, weird, odd, curious". < 1378973341 402315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The use is more of the latter, but the translation has picked the former. < 1378973389 422848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were often historically conflated in English too < 1378973427 642847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can still get something of the duality in words like "astonishing" < 1378973427 787826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how awful < 1378973519 412788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual press release related to the article is pretty much equally content-free, but doesn't have the utterly nonsensical bits about firewalls. < 1378973522 431760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bit about "encrypted in an earlier stage, before the IP address has been formed" seems to mean that it works on OSI layer 2, and the bit about "hiding the device" and being accessible only "within the same system" seems to say the data is stored on something that's not as easily connectable from the public interwebs. < 1378976510 965952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit the hello word quiz gave me BEGIN { print "Hello, world!" } < 1378976519 797126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a choice between awk and perl... < 1378976534 342549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lots of people have complained about that one < 1378976537 46801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then claims it's awk, but it _works_ in perl. < 1378976546 918432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it's correct in both, but hardly idiomatic in Perl < 1378976567 583192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true but i don't think all the others are idiomatic either... < 1378976576 798469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, the BEGIN seems useful for distinguishing Perl from other languages… < 1378976598 482464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _knew_ both awk and perl had it, of course. < 1378976613 109379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was not sure if awk had straight up print. < 1378976655 205041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i shouldn't complain too much, this quiz has gone surprisingly well. although a lot of elimination rather than actually knowing the answer. < 1378976661 657911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :down to 1 life now. < 1378976738 458067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh poiuy_qwert has a program. where is he these days... < 1378976826 841999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there was also the ?- write('Hello world!'), nl. < 1378976861 988735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which a choice between prolog and something else. now i'm getting it _again_, but without what was the right answer the last time D: < 1378976884 613586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it accepted prolog. < 1378976911 451341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i got wrong with afair the _same_ program last time < 1378976922 875318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some OO prolog variant < 1378976941 589121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :logtalk, i think it was the last time. < 1378976947 730870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, should be :- not ?- for regular Prolog < 1378976960 929116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that means the last one was _wrong_. < 1378976976 309587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure of that, isn't it ?- in the repl < 1378976987 957976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although you don't actually _type_ that, then.) < 1378977034 394163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it finished. < 1378977035 482812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's ?- in the repl < 1378977043 624809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be :- to run it at program load in regular Prolog < 1378977053 446316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless you run /something/ at program load, the program won't do anything at all < 1378977071 450179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the REPL is regular < 1378977075 734612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if i got the last one there, since i got no message that i was wrong. < 1378977083 790291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5900 score) < 1378977164 282941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the highest score is 6300, which seems to correspond to my 4 errors. < 1378979476 607049 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378979887 525380 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378980633 364905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : this turns out to not be enough to implement swap <-- only even permutations, i think. < 1378980659 282642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while swap is an odd one. < 1378980684 934426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1378980686 530429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realised that < 1378981110 765122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1378981992 543182 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1378982265 840662 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1378982362 206068 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378982583 131040 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1378982608 548949 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure the wrapping worked for the dupdog hello world program? < 1378982639 976276 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see a VERY long line, with a horizontal scrolling bar to read it all < 1378983400 191616 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378983794 851715 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1378983818 215321 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378983931 365230 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 QUIT :Client Quit < 1378983946 120315 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378984875 109782 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.187.193 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378984987 187139 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1378985891 617093 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378986938 188755 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1378987341 350572 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378988394 173807 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378988589 584848 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378988878 861291 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1378988880 405301 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378988895 121605 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378989138 665937 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378989325 98355 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378989737 128700 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378990603 716327 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378990751 569302 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378991282 610467 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378992296 346394 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo: http://pastebin.ca/2448959 < 1378993675 111725 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378993985 305218 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994117 55226 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378994131 342245 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994514 288356 :nooodl!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994519 297128 :nooodl__!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994519 442299 :nooodl_!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994556 807192 :nooodl_!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378994558 199257 :nooodl__!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378994696 129966 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378994716 385833 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378994718 579948 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994786 34317 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1378994927 509193 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378994951 330753 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1378995008 351331 :hypha!~hypha@93.158.64.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1378995034 724374 :hypha!~hypha@93.158.64.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378995205 536304 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378995826 452049 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1378996823 803080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's dmesg: < 1378996825 209929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[429774.676809] Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2c on CPU 0. < 1378996825 355489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[429774.676812] Do you have a strange power saving mode enabled? < 1378996825 355630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[429774.676812] Dazed and confused, but trying to continue < 1378996859 932029 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it when they antormo.. antrohm.. ant.. arothmorphise things. < 1378996942 543144 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"assign human attributes" aha < 1378997062 233892 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. < 1378997068 212171 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1378998318 451320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't look at dmesg often enough to notice weird messages when they come up < 1378998389 125068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, something's trying to connect inbound on ports 443 and 6667 < 1378998391 707759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :through a NAT, somehow < 1378998464 137227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even sure how you tunnel a port 443 connection through a NAT < 1378998471 765749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6667 is almost believable on the basis that I'm on IRC atm < 1378998832 2644 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you try 443? aren't there other easier methods to exploit? < 1378999084 661641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1378999084 846355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is me noticing what inbound stuff the firewall is blocking < 1378999098 851151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in how they got to 443 past a NATty wireless router < 1378999100 338996 :stuntaneous!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378999117 295505 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have been pronomically clearer. s/you/one/. < 1378999229 706141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's approximately as exploitable as 80? < 1378999319 654583 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah? wouldn't you have to circumvent encryption to get to the juicy packet details? (fyi, ianac.) < 1378999363 271151 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ianac: I am not a cracker. hth.) < 1378999369 252739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: aren't you /sending/ the packet? < 1378999390 904722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to circumvent the encryption because you're one of the parties who has the key < 1378999404 732559 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. right. iranac. < 1378999411 584658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it could just be going on the basis of "443 is rarely firewalled" < 1378999418 688891 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact. < 1378999421 375054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people often run random things on 443 to get round firewalls < 1378999429 143997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's trying to exploit one of those < 1379000751 218095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan looks the same to me < 1379000751 363294 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379001492 429309 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1379001554 253867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I got it written on console by syslogd, apparently the priority was high enough. < 1379001568 438648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems quite high-priority < 1379001666 114437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Emergencies are sent to everybody logged in. < 1379001668 477696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :*.emerg :omusrmsg:* < 1379001686 3199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might have even been that, since I don't see much else in the syslog config that'd come in as a message like that. < 1379001719 353925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To correct myself, it wasn't written on console, it was a 'write'-style message.) < 1379002001 822561 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1379002046 724828 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on how to comparitives/conditionals in bf? < 1379002115 255400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi denzuko < 1379002132 338365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea behind conditionals is you have some cell on the tape that's 0 for false, non-0 for true < 1379002139 784943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you loop on it, and zero it at the end of the loop < 1379002157 290524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works fine so long as you don't mind both branches of your if going to the same square < 1379002169 236879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then negation is quite easy to implement (set a cell to 1, conditionally set it to 0) < 1379002204 670718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparisons are a bit harder, you basically need to do a subtraction except track whether the cell crosses 0 < 1379002212 310273 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1379002247 46899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :denzuko: you might want to read http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#x_.3D_x_.3C.3D_y for more information on how that works < 1379002325 911158 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah I read that one earlier, however from my understanding `temp0` does not exist in bf? < 1379002357 298483 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I'm comming from a c++ and qbasic background (yes I do know a little asm code too) < 1379002370 20210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :denzuko: basically it means "move the tape pointer to a cell you designated as a temporary" < 1379002392 28489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a placehbolder you fill in yourself < 1379002394 375106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, x and y and temp0 and temp1 can be anywhere < 1379002402 948790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on where you want the temporary cell to be locatd < 1379002405 731494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ed < 1379002419 627013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, just look at the top of the page :) < 1379002420 676084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you know where the tape pointer is (something it's always worth tracking while brainfucking), you can give an appropriate number of < or > to move there < 1379002421 211794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it explains the notation < 1379002440 241185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, those comparisons look really overcomplex to me < 1379002445 123070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps they're more efficient? < 1379002448 970718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I think wrapping is perhaps an insufficient solution to [[♦‎]] :) < 1379002449 116273 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379002526 727006 :audioPhil!~quassel@lak-73-69.wohnheime.ruhr-uni-bochum.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1379002526 872210 :audioPhil!~quassel@lak-73-69.wohnheime.ruhr-uni-bochum.de QUIT :Changing host < 1379002526 872277 :audioPhil!~quassel@unaffiliated/audiophil1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379002527 982298 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah!! ok so the `temp0` is arbitrary and can be basically likened unto a [>][-] statement? < 1379002592 963971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++>+++++<[->[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1379002595 99697 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ < 1379002599 706675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++>+++<[->[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1379002600 61074 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ < 1379002607 132508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've screwed up somewhere < 1379002617 565827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to BF directly onto IRC < 1379002736 958089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :denzuko: you have to fill it in < 1379002745 125156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if it says temp0, it means you have to move it to a predetermined cell you've set aside < 1379002750 915033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the algorithm needs temporary scratch space to calculate with < 1379002758 633775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I done wrong? < 1379002761 747054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so replace temp0 with some >s or +++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1379003016 865160 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ < 1379003021 135679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++>+++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>+<[-]]>-<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>. < 1379003021 590415 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? < 1379003023 879133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1379003033 308328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's /way/ simpler than the construction on the wiki < 1379003055 681436 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was from my bf2nasm program < 1379003098 367624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a loop on arg 1 that decrements arg 2, then sets a flag if arg 2 is nonzero < 1379003103 391376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err if it's zero < 1379003119 219085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via incrementing it on nonzero and decrementing it always < 1379003130 740506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++>+++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. < 1379003131 203788 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1379003135 271659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++>+++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. < 1379003135 810107 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1379003138 730735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++>+++++<[->-[->+>+<<]>[-<+>]>[>-<[-]]>+<<<<]>>>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. < 1379003139 236727 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :B < 1379003142 976603 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we playing bfjoust < 1379003146 757665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: no, just BF < 1379003150 331053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, !bf not !bfjoust < 1379003156 620679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was debugging it in egojsout because I could, mostly < 1379003166 383306 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1379003234 65700 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379003274 799873 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379003427 409602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody writes BF Joust code with that many < < 1379003436 631188 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do >_> < 1379003436 829501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except me, I guess < 1379003462 112504 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to optimize my BF code < 1379003464 498512 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1379003470 186836 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, but then I get lost in my code < 1379004050 117906 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379004674 585827 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use comments? < 1379004678 410467 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here know someone named Elielson? < 1379004689 280704 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1379004690 661829 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use some device that makes the code for you < 1379004706 467786 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: I tried =O < 1379004707 416021 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1379004709 786354 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in you can declare a variable x and use x and the device will replace x with the appropriate amount of > or < < 1379004715 587444 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah < 1379004720 508062 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I consider that cheating =P < 1379004735 72849 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can define a macro and the device will replace the macro with its code < 1379005069 12143 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1379005090 553371 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379005092 775558 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1379005142 194899 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heya < 1379005143 239566 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1379005523 348352 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an elielson? < 1379005700 995930 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1379005715 962244 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just privmsg'd me yesterday, saying "hello" < 1379005723 848122 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was off my bouncer, and he's not around anymore < 1379005729 532956 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no clue who he is < 1379005742 927570 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :His nick isn't registered, whowas doesn't tell me anything < 1379005768 424918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think an elielson was in here earlier < 1379005818 420033 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1379005896 585372 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably another Lost Colombian. < 1379005976 278764 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1379006727 299866 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Bank robbery is punishable by 20 years in federal prison... bank robbery is punishable by... bank robbery is punishable by...” < 1379006737 873468 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like minimal music.) < 1379007090 171309 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gon' rain < 1379007279 884986 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1379007379 39696 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: :D < 1379007394 388481 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Nani? =P < 1379007463 759565 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo: http://youtu.be/n7JAns3PsB0 < 1379007479 380097 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and http://youtu.be/anXcSl5uFig) < 1379007585 416456 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Compact Disk logo < 1379007586 58404 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1379007597 681207 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, I like this < 1379007647 827188 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :My musical ear is twitching, though < 1379007653 329461 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meter is... fucked up < 1379007697 919531 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1379007715 752127 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the meter is most verily definitely strategically musically fungotted up. < 1379007715 939022 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: instead of tables < 1379007720 531960 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something about air conditioning < 1379007741 963572 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prematurely air conditioned supermarket < 1379007762 558735 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even < 1379007830 768705 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry. listen to the whole album. you can get gasoline shortest. these are the days my friends. one two three four. < 1379007846 262307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1379008029 754493 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1379008031 912342 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: if not tables, then when? < 1379008032 125900 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so do you understand the problem < 1379008330 118214 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :usefully, bochs' debug option for logging exceptions prints the address of the exception handler, not the place where the exception happened < 1379008663 359318 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily.fungot.moed++ < 1379008663 621319 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: any command prompt... would be < 1379008784 45797 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ominous < 1379008785 284050 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like i < 1379008786 157113 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1379008790 875393 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I also like i < 1379008797 208835 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not in the same way, sorry < 1379008797 487880 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379008802 324586 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma moed < 1379008802 488080 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :moed has a karma of 0 < 1379008811 627199 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma boily.fungot.moed < 1379008811 772956 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily.fungot.moed has a karma of 1 < 1379008811 936054 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma boily < 1379008812 81177 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily has a karma of 1 < 1379008812 81271 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: advice for fritz1 pasted " fresh-id" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord: no parse error there < 1379008812 996605 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379008818 905995 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooo, Karma < 1379008838 844843 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time my karma was tracked, I ended up at -50 for no good reason < 1379008871 292304 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the bot's owner though it'd be funny, since my nick was Skynet < 1379008877 781065 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logic still evades me, but eh < 1379008900 971892 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :skynet is supposedly evil, I think < 1379008910 509799 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1379008911 304743 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1379008920 41506 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just defending itself? < 1379008938 13682 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was mostly trying to catch flying fishes, I think < 1379008964 276783 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just confused the "fishing rod" subroutine with the "human extermination" one < 1379008971 241642 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :And couldn't admit that it was wrong < 1379008983 394508 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1379009263 440406 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1379009590 919174 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379010157 787364 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1379010302 783266 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck moed < 1379010303 129972 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moed is the second Order of the Mishnah, the first written recording of the Oral Torah of the Jewish people. < 1379010319 457795 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck mød < 1379010319 982204 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1379010349 799879 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck öri öri öri < 1379010350 227395 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1379010578 811395 :denzuko!~denzuko@cpe-24-55-52-45.austin.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish < 1379010653 459742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the generic computing helpdesk channel, right? Do you happen to know if a Windows (8) installation can innately transfer itself to a new (smaller) disk? (I've *just* gotten all drivers and mingw's and Emacses and other such necessities installed, and it took days, but now I'm getting a leftover 512G SSD I could stick it on, and a proper reinstallation doesn't sound like any sort of fun at all.) < 1379010684 84595 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why yes, fizzie, it is < 1379010700 684757 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing with a shiny and sparkling 512 GB SSD? < 1379010719 530513 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reminds me, I still need to quintopify that package of cookies...) < 1379010760 710747 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You could probably shrink the partition to fit the smaller disk, then mirror it < 1379010762 242137 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1379010844 671586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This computer has a less shiny 64G SSD, on which is Debian, and a 2*3T HD RAID 1 set, on which is the /home, and a 1T HD on which is the Windows. I thought that moving the Windows to the SSD would get the most benefit out of it, perhaps. < 1379010864 919716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could still decide to use it for something else. < 1379010877 150160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You'd like to migrate on a half-a-terabyte SSD, right? < 1379010877 656355 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: parentheses become very lonely when they are debugging their programs for free. :p what a great explanation: http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ < 1379011026 986844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirroring is a bit weird with GPT < 1379011066 594841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows disk happens to be, of course, the system disk, with the GPT disklabel and the EFI boot partitions and all that. < 1379011069 1883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a big SSD < 1379011098 187800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The person giving it to me bought a 960 GB SSD, so this one was superfluous. < 1379011108 988733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some other silly number like that. < 1379011159 588084 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1379011170 815373 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of those things where Windows bloat works to my advantage < 1379011187 304243 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the cheap SSD which is barely enough to hold Windows boot files is plenty of space for my entire system < 1379011217 541206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 64G SSD is plenty of space for the Debian, too. < 1379011288 635798 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is plenty bloated too, this 5GB partition used to be more than enough but can barely even fit a kernel these days < 1379011325 114836 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1379011329 144133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that installing 'texlive-full' takes quite a lot of disk space. < 1379011378 986057 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, many ages ago this system even had room for installing tex < 1379011431 936506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall someone computing the size of a "full installation" (as many packages as you can install at the same time, factoring in dependency conflicts) of Debian. < 1379011545 65244 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1379011546 874414 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big? < 1379011564 997022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the result at all, and having no luck googling it as yet. < 1379011610 40910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://eduardo-lago.blogspot.fi/2012/02/what-is-size-of-ubuntu-and-debian.html I don't think this is it, but this is one size estimate. < 1379011633 848567 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's kind of irrelevant in that it sums all distributions. < 1379011648 479408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's the archive size, not the installed size. < 1379011731 664318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian 3.0 contains 105 million lines of code, according to a "paper" on arXiv, but that's still not it. < 1379011761 19174 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Debian 3.0 is really old too < 1379011798 176568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 million lines for Debian 5.0. < 1379011821 887698 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is based on -- approximately -- downloading all source packages, deleting the 'debian/' directories, and running some SLOC counter.) < 1379011864 88362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Estimated cost to develop: 6,119,000,000 EUR." < 1379011880 727748 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love estimates < 1379011901 931960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can buy a Nokia for less than that. < 1379011905 268937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, half a Nokia.) < 1379012276 649300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build 1/8 of a high speed rail line from San Francisco to Los Angeles for that < 1379012416 536684 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or launch about 2000 tons of stuff into low earth orbit < 1379012550 803655 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cover almost a percent of the US defense-related budget. < 1379012645 704493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :infrastructure in the USA reminds me of the sci fi trope where all the cool tech (e.g. FTL travel) was built by a dead civilization and nobody anymore knows how it works or can make more < 1379012645 850060 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think of the B2s < 1379012809 778117 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone mentioned high-speed rail < 1379012814 877199 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a hyperloop thing < 1379012829 486041 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was a trainspotting thing. < 1379012843 643033 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, with the heroin. < 1379013050 874733 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379013278 943984 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1379013612 465657 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LostTechnology ? < 1379013702 214070 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1379014157 964470 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379015171 855800 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :half my floor is civil engineering majors, so, like, whatever, man. < 1379015376 806287 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in university we had a derogatory rhyme about civ engs: «Génie civil, génie facile». < 1379015400 393343 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a guy in my flat doing civil engineering last year < 1379015411 61761 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he spoke all of about twenty words to me in total < 1379015475 827015 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! PYTHON CODE THAT USES <> INSTEAD OF != !!!!! < 1379015511 493200 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the horror. < 1379015583 207200 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-134-3-130-100.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1379015654 354788 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day, I'll find an OpenERP core developer, and... I'll do unspeakable things! like make them utter disordered speech! that'll teach them. < 1379015981 292946 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379016466 220919 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@199-7-158-71.eng.wind.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1379016747 574633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there's an existing California High Speed Rail project which intends to use, you know, technologies that actually exist < 1379016753 744828 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of magical spaceman fairy dust < 1379016774 91696 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Hyperloop proposal is widely seen as an attempt to kill this project < 1379016787 85645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1379016845 800790 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the average person a) has no idea which technology or cost estimates are realistic, b) hates interminable expensive government-backed projects and wants some silicon valley genius to singlehandedly save us all < 1379016873 644486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I recall the Hyperloop documents contain a number of outright lies about CA HSR < 1379016897 512380 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1379016935 137988 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck HSR < 1379016936 54305 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :homogeneously staining regions. < 1379016942 137053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*average american < 1379016951 157540 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think average person mostly? < 1379016952 487086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (b) anyway. < 1379016960 140487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) may be universal. < 1379016960 714562 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat blown >> mind < 1379016967 243355 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: blown: No such file or directory < 1379016968 846095 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's our national equivalent to the silicon valley? < 1379016976 880271 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1379016992 484312 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Thedford Mines? =P < 1379016992 856673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trusting companies more than the government is an american thing. < 1379017022 253590 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and public infrastructure costs literally 10x as much to build in America as elsewhere < 1379017030 600100 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain some of the distaste we have for it < 1379017047 773272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1379017047 918646 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 4h 31m 36s ago: looks the same to me < 1379017047 918819 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 4h 3m 18s ago: I think wrapping is perhaps an insufficient solution to [[♦‎]] :) < 1379017052 371657 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo: HA HA HA HA HA HA! < 1379017125 537757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok koen complains at least dupdog looks worse with css instead of explicit spaces to him. < 1379017142 577430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1379017142 761979 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan_ said 21s ago: I LIVE < 1379017161 66295 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1379017163 856338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1379017227 378583 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU LIVE. < 1379017251 448966 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, oerjan-underscore lives < 1379017269 109485 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaah what's the raw form of /me < 1379017286 710425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw? it's a CTCP action < 1379017288 32862 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :/rawme < 1379017291 536060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^AACTION ...^A < 1379017312 83374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace ^A by whatever inserts a raw ^A character < 1379017385 560125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the raw form of ^A? < 1379017432 947223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask Koen_ what browser do you use? < 1379017433 130143 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379017447 168793 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan What does @ask do? < 1379017447 314532 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379017453 573400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a character, U+0001 START OF HEADING < 1379017464 327373 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION test with a rawa < 1379017467 456407 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. neat. < 1379017471 747898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although in this case it's probably really spec'd as the byte 0x01 < 1379017492 432372 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai < 1379017498 593415 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit < 1379017503 67944 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flblblblblblblbl. < 1379017504 346498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since IRC doesn't specify a character encoding < 1379017506 838903 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :>CTCP ERRMSG reply from clog [~nef@bespin.org]: unknown CTCP: Hai < 1379017539 615888 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP hatee hatee hatee hoooo < 1379017542 435696 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1379017580 873116 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«CTCP inconnu demandé par Roujo: boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily boily» < 1379017610 424704 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP boily should be in the spec < 1379017612 511849 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, come on < 1379017612 657039 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu NOTICE #esoteric :This is foolish. < 1379017614 407223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1379017614 552376 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo asked 2m 47s ago: What does @ask do? < 1379017622 68061 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1379017622 213629 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo NOTICE #esoteric :I AM THE GATE < 1379017624 196714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell roujo it asks questions < 1379017624 341859 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379017624 854961 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo NOTICE #esoteric :I AM THE KEY < 1379017642 925559 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan Thanks =) < 1379017643 70839 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379017659 95547 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379017661 657264 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :`complain CTCP boily isn't in the IRC RFC < 1379017662 879839 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complaint filed. Thank you. < 1379017891 892184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo: it doesn't matter, no client follows the rfc anyway < 1379017899 574443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1379017899 720151 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo said 4m 16s ago: Thanks =) < 1379018076 812030 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 NOTICE #esoteric :what are you idiots up to now < 1379018124 634677 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo NOTICE #esoteric :I thought you'd have noticed by now. Good thing you did. < 1379018161 797845 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTICE we're up to nothing at all. no worries. < 1379018168 749316 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARUGH! WHYYYYYYY. < 1379018175 847230 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379018183 422534 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: =P < 1379018415 877715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: /notice is not ctcp < 1379018426 888484 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTICE boily another try... < 1379018439 478269 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at ^A... < 1379018442 48743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an actual basic irc command. < 1379018459 159976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: um you're doing ctcp fine, it's just that notice isn't one. < 1379018475 608242 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net NOTICE #esoteric :lobster, seagull, cloud-storage. < 1379018475 898864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you _may_ have a /ctcp command, irssi does. < 1379018501 69731 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP CTCP CTCP < 1379018537 744731 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1379018553 622554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think mnoqy might be annoyed. < 1379018585 149055 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mnoqy OH HAI! < 1379018585 294276 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379018598 505766 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not my fault. < 1379018607 467542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1379019098 204327 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah, wait, is that why a channel is called a channel < 1379019117 131522 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it channels irc messages to a bunch of people rather than just one < 1379019227 907048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the term is rather older than irc. < 1379019234 30454 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1379019270 49047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :channels are what they drive boats in < 1379019288 27419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have heard of this ancient thing called "radio" and "tv". < 1379019300 534514 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1379019307 408324 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although radio has stations you idiot < 1379019310 191425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also "telegraph", but i'm not sure if that had channels. < 1379019312 907342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're called channels to confuse swedish people < 1379019321 582563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :channels filled with small etherboats carrying pixels and phonons < 1379019355 859307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh it does? in norwegian you can say either "stasjon" or "kanal" but the latter is more common. < 1379019370 721884 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a radio canal < 1379019467 764623 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«un canal radio», «une station radio»... < 1379019493 606731 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irssi will display a CTCP ACTION reply in a weird way < 1379019506 771533 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@199-7-158-71.eng.wind.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1379019506 990089 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only see it in that way if someone else sends it < 1379019522 409113 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover NOTICE #esoteric :ACTION Meow! < 1379019546 442805 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION Meow! < 1379019552 569038 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1379019557 906268 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay I'm not very good at this) < 1379019651 871313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at wikipedia, it may be that "radiostasjon" is somehow more official, but "radiokanal" has more google hits. < 1379019743 892100 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1379019759 837590 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-140-113.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1379019889 682260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh technically "stasjon" is the place sent from, but "kanal" is the frequency band used. < 1379020149 677331 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379021155 249578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell koen_ pikhq made a bf macro system. it was called BFM at some point, except i think it was renamed. the BFM on the wiki is yet another. < 1379021155 394731 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1379021558 682973 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1379021983 521704 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@twitter We’ve confidentially submitted an S-1 to the SEC for a planned IPO. This Tweet does not constitute an offer of any securities for sale." < 1379022077 193350 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1379022240 225346 :nooodl!~nooodl@127.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1379022352 403104 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzKvwYt3Zyg < 1379022585 824573 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379022725 217636 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1379023003 518887 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379023218 790906 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1379023895 1090 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! sudden drop in relative humidity! < 1379023897 347209 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar CYUL < 1379023897 842024 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 122200Z 25016G24KT 15SM FEW030 BKN090 BKN120 OVC200 21/16 A2964 RMK SC2AC4AC1CS1 SLP036 DENSITY ALT 1100FT < 1379023913 676028 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck youtube < 1379023942 23244 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have you consolidated the player size buttons and video resolution options into one button < 1379023958 898535 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because simplicity < 1379023971 160750 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok actually < 1379023975 315475 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1379023975 465366 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan asked 1h 49m 2s ago: what browser do you use? < 1379023975 610966 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 47m ago: pikhq made a bf macro system. it was called BFM at some point, except i think it was renamed. the BFM on the wiki is yet another. < 1379023980 48279 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to describe how dumb this was in long form < 1379024013 112004 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously youtube had a button that brought up a menu on which you could select a resolution, and three buttons for different player sizes < 1379024027 430178 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I use firefox 23.0.1 on Mac OS X 10.6.8 < 1379024070 505233 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they have done is made the resolution menu button bring up a submenu, to which two player size buttons have been moved, and the resolution options have been moved into their own secondary drop-down menu within this < 1379024073 38364 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does anybody use any size other than "default" or "fullscreen"? < 1379024087 615375 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes use the middle one for 480p videos < 1379024110 99349 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's a subsubmenu now? < 1379024114 404947 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1379024117 252315 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dumb < 1379024199 670635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: *sigh* now it looks like crap in IE, but how does it look to you? < 1379024245 445110 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hum well right now it looks fine it's in a nice rectangle < 1379024259 942660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sheesh* < 1379024260 389429 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but earlier today I sware it had a horizontal scrolling thingy < 1379024318 341170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: yes, i added some css to make it have the browser wrap instead of containing whitespace < 1379024344 303527 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: It's called PEBBLE; it's not been touched in ages, but I do have it up on github. http://github.com/pikhq/pebble < 1379024344 448827 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I messaged you after you made that edit < 1379024402 376784 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's very tempting but I'm trying to talk myself into learning Erlang and I don't think learning a brainfuck macro language will help < 1379024418 194799 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however Bike might be interested < 1379024424 359669 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it Roujo ? < 1379024434 768592 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair warning, knowledge of Tcl helps a lot. < 1379024435 752801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is bad, word-wrap: break-word alone looks perfect in IE (presumably like the rectangle Koen_ sees now, but adding white-space: pre-wrap to fix it for Koen_ makes it look like crap in IE :( < 1379024450 310374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even worse than the /// quine does < 1379024459 850640 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it works by abusing Tcl into doing my bidding) < 1379024497 393448 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes I considered learning Tcl buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut it's not on top of my list < 1379024516 240269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: let me guess, http://esolangs.org/wiki////#Quine is also one long line to you now? < 1379024533 123283 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally I'm afraid the amount of thing I'm not doing because I have other things I want to do first is getting huger and huger every day but the amount of things I actually do is not) < 1379024545 298248 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed it is < 1379024666 698838 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: Fair enough. Tcl is pretty interesting from a language design perspective, but eh. < 1379024697 135018 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: FOODENING! < 1379024698 765679 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379024707 78172 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thanks for the info anyway < 1379024749 177284 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1379024806 414086 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1379024916 760713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok how do i add white-space: pre-wrap _only_ for firefox < 1379024947 807789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ideally, don't :P < 1379024992 169753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but IE turns that into crap and firefox doesn't wrap without it :( < 1379025015 289128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaiu < 1379025070 535133 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1379025365 53572 :Frooxius_!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1379025402 182202 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1379025421 497497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: less ideally, how to do it anyhow? < 1379025463 492707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do it inline from an article < 1379025487 518642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :browser-sniffing is really bad... there is probably a better way to make things look consistent < 1379025495 878276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know what it would be < 1379025505 458348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the CSS syntax for casing on that stuff anyway, so I couldn't tell you < 1379025653 129716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear that this problem is too obscure to search for :( < 1379025846 189611 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379026008 734648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could use a media query for something that only firefox happens to support < 1379026022 167285 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Client Quit < 1379026035 200325 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379026254 70362 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1379026670 274167 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a friend of mine thinks php-style $$vars are a good idea. < 1379026673 258732 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i talk them out of this < 1379026683 697151 :SingingBoyo!~Brandon@dhcp-128-189-200-196.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1379026685 551715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. disowning? < 1379026704 149863 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't know php. there's still hope < 1379026727 104442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means he independently invented the idea. that's even worse! < 1379026749 29090 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he learned about them without knowing the rest of php? regardless though... < 1379026806 842515 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :independent invention. he came up with lexical escape in the same message, too, so like i dunno < 1379026858 288117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexical escape < 1379026885 16391 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look i don't know what it's called < 1379026908 209309 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like let/cc but less reified?? whatever < 1379027128 841606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are $$vars < 1379027158 612813 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :$var is the variable called "var", $$var is the variable whose name is $var's value < 1379027172 625933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :three-dollar programmer < 1379027179 334832 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1379027181 712565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after their deserved salary < 1379027183 285398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh god < 1379027190 909217 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basiccally, yes. < 1379027253 172780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has that < 1379027262 647129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's disallowed by use strict though < 1379027276 741486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in favor of the "actual" var references which are "a bit less terrible" < 1379027310 310696 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: probably you talk them out of it by figuring out what their use case is and showing how it's done better with some other construct < 1379027315 761762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually lambda ;) < 1379027326 573474 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's just philosophizing rather than having specifics in mind < 1379027328 805406 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, doomed < 1379027335 402913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom < 1379027339 997568 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i just suggested a hash table) < 1379027365 694895 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hash tables are probably called lists in php < 1379027365 840274 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :puff puff < 1379027366 933273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be interesting if you didn't represent variable names as strings. < 1379027373 915304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess perl's reference stuff is basically that < 1379027374 924436 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to GC a hash table manually though < 1379027379 744954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: they're called "arrays" < 1379027389 768979 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not want to get into gc with this guy >_> < 1379027403 657520 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make him do all of SICP < 1379027452 942751 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the school. < 1379027460 45432 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS prof was an APL programmer < 1379027627 687906 :Bike_!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 JOIN :#esoteric < 1379027680 672209 :Bike_!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://25.media.tumblr.com/44962a2571e3edce3b256f3860407b46/tumblr_mt0yu2XWbB1rwn6y8o4_1280.jpg have some biogears < 1379027680 936569 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1379027683 628156 :Bike_!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 NICK :Bike < 1379027710 508920 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are they from/what are they for < 1379027726 254250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insects; jumping < 1379027728 310687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc. < 1379027731 392796 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6151/1254.full yes < 1379027760 663846 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gears are found rarely in animals" your tax dollars at work < 1379027924 987970 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a true science fact and don't you forget it < 1379028247 319520 :SingingBoyo!~Brandon@dhcp-128-189-200-196.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1379028372 805090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit koen_ left < 1379028405 191087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone look at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages#dupdog in firefox plz < 1379028500 483340 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, what should i see < 1379028605 718995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicely rectangularly wrapped box of incomprehensible text < 1379028610 312421 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it does in chrome but with horizontal scrolling instead of a big honking textblock < 1379028613 552416 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. no i don't see wrapping. < 1379028624 612517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1379028648 509685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping i could use the firefox-only property :( < 1379028650 692846 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-18-196.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1379028731 394392 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1379028737 530842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the chrome view is presumably like what i want, but i cannot get firefox and IE to agree < 1379028748 133919 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~web programming~ < 1379028750 509093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i get _either_ of them to agree, but not at the same time) < 1379028768 816327 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1379028816 634363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically firefox _needs_ white-space:pre-wrap to wrap at all, which IE and chrome don't. but that messes up _how_ IE wraps, which it doesn't in firefox and chrome. < 1379028838 934430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at white-space or whatever it's called maybe. < 1379028839 869073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the property < 1379028854 28461 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monotone: any advice? < 1379028854 287931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given the word-wrap:break-word property which all seem to do right, in a sense) < 1379028864 422342 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to override the white-space:pre-wrap in IE? < 1379028874 80189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i did. then i tried to add a vendor prefix. < 1379028896 206204 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is white-space:pre-wrap actually sane and conformant, such that any normal browser should "just work" with that? < 1379028922 155911 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, pretend IE is the broken one, and give IE some extra CSS in an IE conditional comment. < 1379028936 589502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IE doesn't accept conditional comments any longer iirc < 1379028945 641640 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh blah, they did remove that in IE 10. < 1379028958 187701 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl has too many ways to pass code to execute around < 1379028966 985595 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COmmand name, command prefix, scripts, script prefix < 1379029027 419451 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, gensym as a builtin command would be nice < 1379029038 639916 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of every single package that needs a gensym implementing gensym < 1379029112 343496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok presumably -ms-white-space may not exist because IE was the last to support the property, or something. < 1379029147 840776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but -moz-white-space i've seen listed, so why doesn't that work :( < 1379029156 875478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vendor prefixes aren't meant to work once the stuff is standard < 1379029160 98344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not for browser sniffing < 1379029167 229866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1379029232 484918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to stop because i'm getting angry. < 1379029317 852126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my general problem with all computer configuration, that) < 1379029454 737816 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.143 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1379029475 969399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, neck ache < 1379029631 93035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you cannot win. _either_ things get brittle because people do vendor-specific things all over the place, or they get brittle because you cannot overrule what a browser actually does wrong. < 1379029672 918953 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was all that listing about earlier < 1379029678 73493 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: please teach me how to read. I was going to complain about coroutine not taking a command prefix, but it does take command + args, so that's sufficient < 1379029682 544807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got two pings < 1379029683 927496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only solutions are gigantic hacks that need constant maintenance not to become brittle themselves. < 1379029737 316357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually the hacks become embedded into standards, making the whole thing too complicated for an amateur programmer to bother with. < 1379029772 568943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you all knew this already. < 1379029783 417479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there there. it's okay. < 1379029816 540428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAAAAAAAAAH < 1379029842 544197 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What troubles you, child < 1379029870 100562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roujo: i'm waiting for the pain killers to hit, and for someone to solve the crappiness of programming. < 1379029874 594952 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1379029877 106132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the universe. < 1379029879 967276 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1379029881 366466 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1379029888 305632 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pats oerjan on the back < 1379029892 631444 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel you < 1379030189 192502 :Bike!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1379030250 150159 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think Internet Explorer's behavior might actually be right here. < 1379030271 854769 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the wrapping happens after punctuation-to-letter transitions, which are normal line breaking points. < 1379030332 874610 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you turn on "white-space: pre-wrap;" it'll wrap lines there first, then only break up long words where it has to. < 1379030369 495051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously no one considered the use case of wanting _only_ exact end of line wrapping when making the standards.