00:04:30 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:22:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:25:51 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:26:07 -!- ^v has joined. 00:38:31 -!- sacje has quit (Excess Flood). 00:38:58 -!- sacje has joined. 00:39:31 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 00:43:37 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:43:55 -!- ^v has joined. 01:00:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:14:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:18:29 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:20:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:41:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:53:39 kmc: last i saw you had a lot of screens and most of them had windows in them 01:57:52 http://bosker.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/i-hate-the-pumping-lemma/ 01:59:12 heh, reduces it to pigeonhole principle, but dijkstra said something similar about the pigeonhole principle itself 02:00:14 "oops" 02:00:20 imo reduce everything to hugz 02:00:22 hi mnoqy 02:00:29 hi 02:02:03 mnoqy: adjunctions are p. cool, what's even cooler than adjunctions tho 02:04:06 is this a question or an answer 02:04:25 question 02:05:28 i dont know 02:05:49 is it kan extensions 02:06:12 i haent bothered learning much about those yet 02:06:19 are they cool 02:06:33 i heard that they are 02:06:43 but i dont actually know what "cool" means 02:06:52 so idn'tk 02:07:30 what did dijkstra say 02:07:45 "the maximum is at least the average" 02:08:05 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1094.html 02:08:22 or http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd10xx/EWD1094.PDF if you like dijkstra's handwriting (you should) 02:09:36 "PS. I don’t have anything against the pumping lemma for context-free languages." 02:09:46 that one is much more complicated though :( 02:10:18 i think the ratio of complexity of idea to complexity of formal statement is worse there 02:25:46 -!- augur has joined. 02:28:18 -!- Bike has joined. 02:54:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:57:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:05:38 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 03:16:49 -!- sacje has joined. 03:17:58 shachaf: what does he mean by an underline N? 03:19:36 (it looks like he means "Int") 03:22:29 -!- Bike has joined. 03:23:46 In what context is that? 03:25:02 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 03:25:14 the german soccer lotto, he introduces a variable 'i' to index some arrays 03:25:16 -!- Bike has joined. 03:28:41 oh it's along with underlined A for "for all" and underlined E for "there exists" 03:28:44 so I guess it's a quantifier 03:29:23 Or at least a binder. 03:29:28 But I'm not sure what. 03:29:38 it looks like (N x : φ(x)) is meant to mean "the number of x such that φ(x) holds" 03:30:16 Hmm, that's an unusual binder/quantifier. 03:31:02 and also that (Q x : φ : ψ) is meant to be sugar for (Q x: (φ ∧ ψ)) 03:31:18 sorry to use almost identical looking greek letters but it's Tradition 03:31:22 elliott: did djikstra reduce the pigeonhole principle to the pumping lemma 03:32:04 kmc: I think the two colons are special, since even the forall has two. 03:32:10 oh well 03:32:17 ψ 03:32:18 i love "reduce" since even the formal definitions are pretty... two-way 03:53:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:55:50 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:05:12 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:10:13 -!- conehead has joined. 04:13:12 I think the HTML command should be added in MediaWiki (although it doesn't have to implement it as emitting a <xmp>) 04:15:42 <kmc> while you were tripping you were transported to a universe where \phi and \varphi are interchanged 04:15:59 <elliott> at least it's not \epsilon and \varepsilon 04:17:12 <kmc> apparently there's such a thing as "Latin uppercase epsilon" (Ɛ) which is not to be confused with Greek uppercase epsilon (Ε) 04:17:16 <kmc> wtf people 04:17:48 <kmc> stop inventing bogus letters 04:17:54 <kmc> or at least go all out and make something that looks like klingon 04:18:13 <kmc> or ge'ez 04:18:19 <kmc> ge'ez people 04:22:51 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:46:52 <UristMcSgeo> xmp is the sort of thing that sounds good until you realize someone will dumbly try to use it for security 04:47:35 <zzo38> UristMcSgeo: But that doesn't make it no good; it only makes it no good to use it for security. 05:01:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:02:58 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:03:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:03:40 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:13:22 -!- sacje has joined. 05:17:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:33:36 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:33:48 -!- Bike has joined. 05:35:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:45:26 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:46:56 -!- sacje has joined. 05:51:19 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:51:59 -!- Bike has joined. 05:57:02 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:06:24 -!- conehead has joined. 06:07:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:29:02 -!- asie has joined. 06:48:11 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:23:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:24:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:46:49 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 08:26:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:33:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:36:19 -!- sacje has joined. 08:54:51 -!- asie has joined. 08:55:51 -!- asie has quit (Client Quit). 09:31:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:45:17 -!- asie has joined. 10:01:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:15:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:22:05 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:46:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:49:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:56:23 -!- asie has quit (Quit: asie). 10:58:09 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:59:02 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:26:52 -!- UristMcSgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:16 -!- glogbackup has joined. 12:11:19 <oerjan> glogbackup: WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE 12:17:07 <elliott> <glogbackup> sorry people, I... I just took a wrong turn and... got lost and... wandered in... 12:17:17 <elliott> <glogbackup> I'll... show myself out... 12:17:30 * elliott idly considers kicking it for yuks 12:17:35 <Deewiant> Kick glogbot to validate the backup's presence 12:17:45 <oerjan> but now you've made me feel sad for it :( 12:17:56 * oerjan hugs glogbackup 12:18:06 <elliott> Deewiant: I might do that *if* Gregor had ever merged glogbackup's logs in, ever 12:18:22 <Deewiant> I see 12:22:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v glogbackup. 12:22:51 <elliott> problem solved 12:23:44 <oerjan> can't argue with that. 12:32:12 -!- ping has joined. 12:32:25 -!- ping has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:41:24 <Roujo> cat greeting >> #esoteric 12:42:50 <Jafet> I assume that would be a meow. 12:53:59 -!- carado has joined. 13:07:32 <Roujo> Probably, yeah 13:14:22 -!- boily has joined. 13:14:34 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:14:51 <boily> bon matin. 13:17:24 <Roujo> Bon mating, böily ^^ 13:18:00 <boily> nice placement of the infamous trë́ma. 13:20:28 <boily> oh, a ladybug on my desk. 13:23:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 13:23:59 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:25:20 <oerjan> it's not a ladybug, it's a fallen-off accent 13:27:22 -!- boily has joined. 13:27:30 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:28:04 -!- boily has joined. 13:29:37 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:29:53 <oerjan> <oerjan> it's not a ladybug, it's a fallen-off accent 13:30:00 <oerjan> hth 13:30:05 <oerjan> ooh 13:30:20 <oerjan> elliott: i found a flaw in your script 13:31:59 <boily> oerjan: you brightenèd my morning. 13:32:03 <Roujo> boily: wtf 13:32:16 <Roujo> How do you... accents do not work that way 13:32:20 <boily> Roujo: perfectly legit use of the è. 13:32:28 <Roujo> MEH 13:32:29 <boily> it's used in poetry for scansion. 13:32:40 <Roujo> I wouldn't say "perfectly legit" =P 13:32:46 <Roujo> Grévisse would object, really 13:32:52 <boily> HA HA HA! 13:33:43 <boily> I don't care about grévisse. had you mentioned a real grammar source, like bécherelle. 13:33:43 <elliott> oerjan: hm 13:33:54 <elliott> oerjan: erm can you give me a copy of the script so I can fix it :P 13:35:24 <oerjan> http://sprunge.us/EAPE 13:36:34 <elliott> hmm, do you ever do mid-line hths? those could be problematic as well 13:37:03 <oerjan> not that i can recall, unless i'm actually talking about the concept 13:37:12 <elliott> yes, I didn't want to restrict admitting you have a problem 13:37:15 <boily> Roujo: looks like my bro is in Michigan this morning. 13:37:25 <elliott> anyhow how about 13:37:25 <elliott> if ($text =~ s/(^|[,;.?!]?\s+)(hth|twn?h|tdn?h)[,;.?!]*\s*$//ig) { 13:37:47 <elliott> and we all support you in this difficult time. 13:37:56 <oerjan> aww 13:38:03 <Roujo> boily: Now that's just nice =P 13:38:43 <boily> Roujo: oh, no. it was just an atrocious pun based on my previous e-mail. 13:39:03 <Roujo> boily: Now that's just nice =P 13:40:09 * boily has a sudden urge to smack Roujo, but we're Monday morning and I have a chocolate muffin from Costco. 13:40:19 <Roujo> boily: Now that's just nice =P 13:40:21 <Roujo> ALRIGHT 13:40:22 <Roujo> I'll stop 13:41:14 <oerjan> btw editing it revealed that your script was full of ^M's 13:42:40 <oerjan> ok now i've reloaded 13:43:00 <oerjan> thx 13:43:15 <Koen_> so I tried picking up vim 13:43:21 <Koen_> using vimtutor 13:43:44 <elliott> oerjan: sprunge's fault, probably 13:43:47 <elliott> or rather HTTP's fault or whatever 13:44:23 <boily> Koen_: once you start thinking of vim as a roguelike, everything else flows together. 13:44:25 <oerjan> OKAY 13:44:44 <Koen_> ohhhh okay 13:45:05 <Koen_> cause right now I'm convinced I've gone far enough in the tutorial to keep using emacs 13:45:40 <Koen_> this whole "vim is a text editor but please don't use the text editing mode too much" philosophy is weird 13:46:11 <elliott> oerjan: whoa, I just realised I can't threaten you with wiki adminship any more 13:46:22 <oerjan> elliott: horrible isn't it 13:46:30 <boily> Koen_: that's completely false. it's a text editor first, but it happens you have a separate mode for movemements and stuff. 13:46:32 <elliott> I should demote you 13:46:38 <elliott> keep my options open 13:46:54 <boily> btw, kmc gave his voice to glogbackup? 13:47:22 <Koen_> boily: apparently when I'm in insert mode I can only delete what I've just written; all that was already there I CAN'T TOUCH 13:47:36 <oerjan> Koen_: oh there's an option for that 13:47:48 <boily> Koen_: there's an option for that. 13:47:53 <Koen_> oerjan: is that option called "any other text editor"? 13:48:13 <oerjan> no. 13:48:22 <boily> Koen_: I'll act on a sudden spur of charity, and say that you have to add «set nocompatible» in your ~/.vimrc. 13:48:40 <Koen_> I don't have a .vimrc yet 13:48:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:49:23 <boily> Koen_: the .vimrc is only second behind fvwm config files when you sort them by the amount of time you loose tweaking them. 13:49:32 <oerjan> lots of the obvious small improvements are set by default in the windows install, but i vaguely recall setting such an option way back on linux. 13:49:35 <oerjan> oh hm 13:49:37 <elliott> tip: when someone wants to complain, advice helps neither of you. 13:49:40 <boily> (althought you can't rush a good .screenrc, imho) 13:49:56 <Koen_> still, at the school most people use vim, and they were not far from convincing me it was better than emacs 13:49:58 <boily> oerjan: the default windows install is a little bit weird. 13:50:09 <Koen_> but this whole "insert mode" thing is really really ridiculous 13:50:20 <Koen_> half the time they type looking at the keyboard 13:50:29 <Koen_> and nothing happens because they forgot to type i first or something 13:50:30 <oerjan> boily: i _have_ changed a few options in that too, but not this one. anyhow my nvg .vimrc contains set backspace=indent,eol,start whichwrap+=<,>,[,] 13:50:39 <elliott> ...so, save your time, because the complaints will continue regardless. 13:50:51 <Koen_> elliott: I'm actually open-minded! 13:51:06 <elliott> but you've already decided it's really really ridiculous. 13:51:12 <Koen_> isn't it? 13:51:13 <oerjan> not sure what the whichwrap part does 13:51:17 <boily> elliott: when complaining, don't meta-complain, ere your enter an infinite loop of Ultimate Mutual Kvetching. 13:51:25 <elliott> I don't see why 13:51:31 <oerjan> oh wait those are separate options 13:51:41 <boily> oerjan: no idea here neither. it's there, it's feng shui, it must be kept. 13:51:42 <elliott> I certainly don't look at my keyboard when using vim, though I have no strong attachment to it as an editor 13:51:56 <Koen_> elliott: well it's a text editor but by default you are not in text editing mode 13:52:44 -!- Bike has joined. 13:53:26 <boily> Bike: what is your opinion on insertion? 13:53:36 <Bike> context-dependent 13:53:43 <elliott> Koen_: it's called insert mode. 13:53:51 <Koen_> okay 13:53:58 <Koen_> so it's not even a text editing more 13:54:03 <Koen_> mode* 13:54:12 <elliott> insertion is not even editing. normal mode has more tools to actually edit existing text 13:54:13 <oerjan> boily: oh it's to fix a similar annoyingness of the <>[] commands i guess 13:54:29 <Koen_> but in normal mode you can't really type text 13:54:37 <Koen_> which is what I wanna do when I'm using a text editor 13:54:52 <Bike> oh, are you arguing about vim 13:55:04 <boily> oerjan: neat. didn't know about wrapping <>. I guess I prefer the “get stuck at the line beginning” variant, as I usually < and > very aggressively. 13:55:07 <oerjan> boily: um wait it's not the commands but the arrow keys 13:55:17 <oerjan> they're just encoded that way in the option 13:55:18 <boily> oerjan: egbeh? 13:55:44 <oerjan> boily: by default left and right arrow don't wrap at eol 13:55:51 <Koen_> I like all those fancy instructions to delete one word or one line or 13 characters but it seems wrong that you're not allowed to do what you usually do in a text editor 13:55:59 <boily> oerjan: as in, the physical keys? 13:56:11 <oerjan> boily: yes 13:57:27 <elliott> thankfully, other editors (insertors?) exist 13:57:40 <boily> `? insertor 13:57:43 <Koen_> elliott: and frankly I think if I spent enough time coming up with a satisfying .vimrc I'd probably be more efficient using vim than emacs but still some things in it seem so ridiculous to me 13:57:45 <HackEgo> insertor? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 13:57:45 <myndzi> | 13:57:45 <myndzi> o/`¯º 13:59:08 <oerjan> Koen_: there is a vim mode to keep you mostly in insert mode. then you have to add a prefix for each normal mode command though iirc 13:59:17 <oerjan> *vim setting 13:59:51 <boily> Koen_: when in insert mode, you can Alt-* to get the normal mode command. 14:00:20 <boily> (fsvo of *) 14:00:34 <oerjan> i vaguely thought it was Ctrl-O 14:01:25 <boily> well, Ctrl-O is cleaner, but it just happens that in a terminal to Alt- something is the same as Escape, then the something. 14:02:44 <oerjan> oh. that may not even be the case in windows. 14:03:04 <boily> Koen_: you're using which OS? 14:03:18 <Koen_> mac os x 14:03:24 <Koen_> snow leopard I reckon 14:03:43 <oerjan> boily: the thing is Ctrl-O automatically returns you to insert mode after the command 14:05:14 <boily> Koen_: hm. I never vimmed on a mac. how does it feel? 14:05:31 <Koen_> awkward 14:05:33 <Koen_> and ridiculous 14:05:38 <Koen_> I may not be very objective 14:05:50 <boily> oerjan: Ctrl-O is the official “temporarily jump back to normality”. Alt- is the ugly aquatic bird. 14:06:10 <boily> Koen_: you can not be objective about a text editor. it goes with the territory. 14:06:37 <oerjan> boily: but if Alt-* is equivalent to Esc * then it _wouldn't_ be temporary. 14:08:30 <boily> I think the lesson to be extracted from that is that aquatic birds aren't temporary, but the objectivity of Ctrl-O is absolute. 14:08:45 <oerjan> OKAY 14:12:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later hth). 14:13:19 <Roujo> boily: I support and do so 14:13:55 <elliott> @tell oerjan I frown upon this loophole 14:13:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 14:14:08 <Bike> i join in frowning 14:14:18 <boily> elliott: what you frowning at? 14:15:11 <boily> @tell oerjan why are you being frowned at? 14:15:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 14:15:58 <Bike> "hth" in the /quit 14:18:41 -!- ^v has changed nick to dan200. 14:20:04 <boily> did we already relcome ggherdov? 14:20:19 <Bike> probably 14:25:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:32:00 -!- yorick has joined. 15:05:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:18:08 <shachaf> `olist (914) 15:18:10 <HackEgo> olist (914): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 15:20:42 <Roujo> Ooooh 15:20:56 <Roujo> `olist (100) 15:20:57 <HackEgo> olist (100): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 15:21:05 <shachaf> ? 15:21:10 <Roujo> I have no idea what this is 15:21:11 <Bike> wow roujo why are you ruining the sanctity of the list system. 15:21:15 <Bike> `? olist 15:21:17 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. 15:21:20 <Roujo> Ahh 15:21:21 <Roujo> Nice 15:21:24 <shachaf> Don't do that. 15:22:03 <Roujo> Sorry, I didn't think it'd break something 15:22:17 <Bike> the only think you've broken is our hearts. 15:22:36 <shachaf> Bike: hey i was typing that :'( 15:22:36 <Roujo> (so far) 15:33:16 <Bike> how is haskell's i/o organized? like, i assume you can have parsec or whatever deal about the same with a file or with just a string? 15:33:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:33:48 <Bike> would you just pass a lazy string or is there something else, is what i'm asking, i guess 15:34:37 <elliott> it is less nice than you are expecting 15:34:56 <Bike> i'm not really expecting anything. i/o fucking sucks 15:35:10 <elliott> well, you made an assumption 15:35:15 <elliott> it's sort of true but not in any nice way you might be hoping 15:35:25 <Bike> is my assumption that parsec works on both wrong? 15:35:33 <Bike> works on both without some horrible nastiness, anyway 15:36:02 <Bike> just wondering if there's something like CL (oh no) streams or scheme ports or whatever 15:36:33 <elliott> there's about five competing alternatives to fill that need 15:36:43 <elliott> parsec supports none of them but it's flexible enough to feed incrementally from a file with a bit of work, I think. 15:36:43 <Bike> lol cool. 15:37:04 <Bike> are there seven packages putting the five alternatives into unifying monads 15:39:05 <Bike> oh and as long as i'm mentioning parsec, how does the whole language derivative thing work? what multiplication and addition operations do you use to show leibniz's identity? bla bla 15:39:06 <elliott> unifying monads... 15:39:20 <Bike> hey elliott fuck u 15:40:10 <Bike> i was thinking of the time i asked about error handling and kmc or somebody pointed out a couple different things that tried to genericize error handling 15:40:24 <Bike> believe there's a "clevr quote" on this subject 15:41:47 <Bike> MonadError, that was it 15:47:43 <shachaf> @quote Bike 15:47:44 <lambdabot> jjuggle says: I was riding around town and this cop on patrol on a bike rode up next to me and said, "There's always a show off." I offered to teach him to ride and help set up a unicycle patrol 15:47:44 <lambdabot> squad, but he declined. 15:48:20 <boily> `? jjugle 15:48:21 <HackEgo> jjugle? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:48:22 <myndzi> | 15:48:22 <myndzi> o/`¯º 15:48:25 <boily> `? jjuggle 15:48:26 <HackEgo> jjuggle? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:48:27 <myndzi> | 15:48:27 <myndzi> º¯`\o 15:55:02 <ggherdov> yes boily I was warmly wellcame a few weeks ago. Thank you! 16:13:18 <Roujo> Ah, but were you relcame? 16:40:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:40:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:48:58 -!- Bike has joined. 16:56:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:08:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:20:04 <Phantom_Hoover> MEANWHILE IN /R/ANARCHO_CAPITALISM: http://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/1kwy3p/how_would_anarchocapitalism_work_for_a_lowclass/cbtj774 17:20:10 -!- conehead has joined. 17:20:10 <boily> zzo38: how do you feel about insertion? 17:20:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (i know it's not /r/bitcoin but let's face it they're basically the same) 17:20:57 <boily> not enough working neurons today to parse that comment. 17:21:17 -!- augur has joined. 17:21:27 <Bike> haha there's an r/anarcho_capitalism 17:21:44 <zzo38> boily: Insert what? 17:21:55 <Phantom_Hoover> with fancy header and all! 17:22:05 <Phantom_Hoover> the parent comment to that one is also gold 17:22:17 <Bike> oh, i saw this one before 17:22:30 <boily> zzo38: Koen_'s misadventures with vim on OS X. 17:22:49 <Koen_> the problem's not os x 17:23:06 <Bike> «I don't mean to offend anyone or be "that person" to say anarcho-capitalism is only for rich, white people,» 17:23:19 <Bike> holy fuck, is this unironic bootstrap 17:23:27 <Bike> holly fuck. fucking carnegie. holy fuck 17:23:41 <Bike> they're completely serious. holy shit. holy what the fuck phantom 17:23:52 <Koen_> that's a cool justification 17:24:05 <Koen_> like "I'm usually not violent but here's my fist in your face" 17:24:10 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't know man 17:24:12 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't know 17:24:17 <Bike> the banner is also good 17:24:25 <Bike> perfect depiction of how anarcho capitalists imagine themselves 17:24:27 <Bike> fucking bowtie 17:24:32 <Phantom_Hoover> '"Government regulation makes sure the proles are fed."Actually, it ensures their slavery to statism.' 17:24:59 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm going through this thread and i cannot 17:25:24 <Phantom_Hoover> i have however developed a loathing for the term 'govt' 17:26:08 <Bike> may i suggest not going through this thread 17:26:29 <Phantom_Hoover> ok 17:26:36 <Bike> i mean, for your own safety, you understand 17:26:56 <Bike> (i am the statist oppressor) 17:27:11 <coppro> I'm totally the statist oppressor 17:27:17 <Bike> no it's me fucker 17:27:18 <Phantom_Hoover> i will instead try and sift out garth marenghi's opinions on government 17:27:27 <Phantom_Hoover> this may take a while 17:27:30 <Bike> i am the statiest!! 17:27:46 <boily> let Phantom_Hoover read the thread, I say. the end result will be entertaining :D 17:28:00 <Bike> that sounds anarcho-capitalist. i must now oppress you. 17:28:05 <Bike> elliott: i command that you devoice boily. 17:28:24 <Phantom_Hoover> he already has no voice 17:28:32 <Phantom_Hoover> as does Gregor, which is unacceptable 17:28:38 <Bike> are you opposing the rule of law phantom 17:28:44 <Phantom_Hoover> the statist oppressors aren't doing their jobs i say 17:29:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i feel underoppressed 17:29:23 <elliott> oh wow that subreddit's logo 17:29:31 <elliott> are they even trying 17:29:38 <Bike> to make me laugh? maybe 17:29:50 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 17:29:57 -!- elliott has kicked Phantom_Hoover "HTH", as they say. 17:29:57 <Roujo> Oh god 17:29:59 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 17:30:02 <boily> woah. 17:30:10 <Bike> hell yes 17:30:14 <Bike> smash the nonstate 17:30:18 <elliott> nobody ever tell me I don't oppress them enough. 17:30:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:30:22 * boily hides himself behind Roujo. "I didn't do nothing!" 17:30:25 <Phantom_Hoover> voice gregor you shit 17:30:30 <elliott> nah 17:30:32 <elliott> not today 17:30:35 <elliott> the karmic balance isn't right!! 17:30:41 <boily> ~yi 17:30:41 <metasepia> Your divination: "Brightness Hiding" to "Humbling" 17:30:58 <boily> there. whatever that means. 17:31:00 <Bike> mmhm, that backs up the karmic balance description 17:31:07 <Bike> good job elliott. now devoice boily 17:31:07 <Roujo> ~yi 17:31:07 <metasepia> Your divination: "Pervading" to "Corrupting" 17:31:11 <Roujo> Cool, cool 17:31:14 * Roujo spreads 17:32:19 <boily> does map-o-spread still exist? it's been a while since I had it on my breakfast toasts... 17:32:38 <Phantom_Hoover> ~yi 17:32:39 <metasepia> Your divination: "Arguing" to "Treading" 17:32:46 <Phantom_Hoover> that sounds meaningful 17:32:48 <kmc> ~yi 17:32:49 <metasepia> Your divination: "Converting the Maiden" to "Open" 17:32:59 <Phantom_Hoover> well that's not even trying 17:33:00 <kmc> converting vegetarians, minding the gap since 1996 17:33:17 <Bike> you're going to wear out the hexagrams, peeps! watch it 17:34:06 <Roujo> Heh =P 17:34:18 <boily> there are... 17:34:26 <boily> ~eval 64 * 64 17:34:29 <metasepia> Error (1): 17:34:30 <boily> ~eval 64 * 64 17:34:32 <metasepia> 4096 17:34:43 <Bike> amazing 17:34:44 <boily> transitions. we can still abuse metasepia for a while. 17:36:55 <boily> kmc: maidens are vegetarians? 17:37:02 <kmc> some of them 17:38:43 <Phantom_Hoover> something something meat something something lips 17:38:49 <Roujo> Oh, so the combinations never come back? 17:39:10 <Bike> it's random 17:39:14 <Bike> i ching mother fucker 17:39:34 <boily> Roujo: they do, but Bike is an anarcho-suppressor today. 17:39:39 <boily> Bike: check your privileges! 17:39:53 <mnoqy> ~yi 17:39:53 <metasepia> Your divination: "Conjoining" to "Skinning" 17:39:57 <Roujo> fsck /dev/privileges 17:39:59 <mnoqy> sounds about right 17:40:02 <Bike> my privileges are telling me to oppress roujo 17:40:05 <Roujo> D: 17:40:14 <Bike> thx privileges 17:41:11 <boily> I was originally planning to have an sqlite DB to back the yi thingy, in order to have complete descriptions and stuff and relations and everything and ascii art... 17:41:35 <boily> I guess it's going to get lumped in the Great Cosmic Todo List of my Increasingly Vaporiferous Second Bot Iteration. 17:41:41 <Bike> dag 17:41:45 <boily> ~duck dag 17:41:45 <metasepia> dag definition: a hanging end or shred. 17:41:50 <Bike> yep 17:42:00 <boily> indeed. 17:42:29 <boily> ça a bin d'l'air que c'est ça qui est ça, なるほど, and all that sort of thing. 17:42:41 <Bike> yeh 17:43:01 <Roujo> boily: Emily has been completely refactors three to four times already 17:43:05 <Roujo> It's good for her health =P 17:43:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:43:58 <Bike> grosssss 17:44:19 <boily> Roujo: I'll give a go at cuttlefishing that bot during the fête du travail. probably. 17:44:29 <boily> (that or I'll be shuffling mahjon tiles) 17:45:46 <Roujo> I'll be at a wedding, so good luck ^^ 17:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oh, i found the quote i wanted earlier 17:51:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:51:41 <Phantom_Hoover> "Oh what the government?" "Yes! I'm not gonna call them that, because I don't believe they govern." 17:51:55 <Bike> lif emotto 17:53:12 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: ow. ooooooooow. please stop. the few remaining floating solid mushy bits in my cranium are raising riots to overthrow my body away and replace it with a benevolent dictator that will provide them with a lifelong sugar supply. 17:53:25 <boily> ~duck lif emotto 17:53:26 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 17:53:30 <Phantom_Hoover> fortunately that quote is satire 17:53:57 <boily> I call dibs on calling poe's law on that one. 17:57:52 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 17:58:01 <kmc> did I mention http://archive.ics.uci.edu/ml/datasets/Mushroom 17:58:16 <boily> oh, uci has a mushroom set! 17:58:24 <Bike> that's a lot of mushrooms. 17:59:30 <kmc> only Agaricus and Lepiota though 17:59:40 <kmc> lots of observations but only 23 species 18:00:03 <kmc> and "No Lepiota species is recommended as edible" 18:00:10 <Bike> good observation 18:00:16 <kmc> (edibility being what the data set is meant to classify) 18:00:44 <kmc> maybe they are easily confused with Agaricus though 18:02:34 <kmc> same family and it looks like they used to be considered the same genus 18:02:39 <kmc> that happens a lot with mushrooms 18:02:55 <kmc> type species confusion, moving species between genera 18:03:12 <kmc> Psilocybe cubensis used to be Stropharia cubensis 18:04:25 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:04:42 <kmc> Stropharia rugosoannulata is pretty and delicious 18:04:49 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:04:54 <kmc> we found them growing on MIT's campus at one point 18:07:47 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:07:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:08:13 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:10:35 <kmc> fixed a bug with "give up and use memcpy" 18:10:51 <boily> I should get to mushroom hunting. it sounds fun. 18:10:57 <Bike> good song, too 18:11:13 <boily> “oh baby... give up and use memcpy ♪” 18:11:25 <Bike> i meant mushroom hunting!! 18:11:44 <kmc> I don't know that one 18:11:53 <boily> “oh baby... give up and use mushroom hunting ♪” 18:12:04 <Bike> it's from an anime. i'm a weeaboo :( 18:12:11 <kmc> Bike: I think the pacific northwest is good for mushroom hunting 18:12:17 <boily> Bike: which one? 18:12:29 <Bike> www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmIsNpDimQ0 18:12:33 <kmc> in SF the mushrooms season starts in september 18:12:37 <Bike> kmc: yeah, but i live in the dry part now >______> 18:12:45 <kmc> that's true 18:12:53 <boily> there's dry pacific northwest? 18:13:00 <kmc> douglass: do you have any advice about mushroom hunting in eastern Washington state? 18:13:03 <Bike> yeah, east of the cascades it's near-desert. 18:13:20 <boily> oh! cowboy bebop. 18:13:28 <Bike> nobody cares about east of the cascades. the population density drops in much the same way the density drops from land to the ocean 18:13:52 <boily> Bike: so you live in a desert in the ocean, with mushrooms? 18:14:19 <Bike> yeh 18:15:22 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think i even knew the cascades were a thing until recently 18:15:44 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought the only mountain ranges in the mainland us were like the rockies and the appalachians 18:15:49 <Bike> they're kind of overshadowed by the rockies, almost literally 18:15:52 <boily> Roujo: http://youtu.be/-ecg5_Y08KI 18:16:39 <Bike> i mean have you seen the rockies. they're /really/ tall 18:16:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i love how shit 'rocky mountains' is as a name 18:16:53 <Bike> cascades are part of the ring of fire, though, which is somewhat more notable 18:17:04 <boily> our rockies are better than your rockies south of the border. 18:17:13 <Bike> everyone in this state has a story about being covered in ash 18:18:20 <Phantom_Hoover> aren't the rockies continuous with like the grampians and the mountains in norway 18:18:32 <Bike> ...what? 18:18:49 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, oooh, I heard that! 18:19:06 <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range 18:19:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:19:12 <Phantom_Hoover> no 18:19:27 <Bike> ok good that was confusing 18:19:40 <Phantom_Hoover> it's actually the appalachians 18:19:46 <boily> eh? 18:19:47 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cordillera Oh. Huh. That's interesting 18:19:50 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: so, again, what. 18:20:07 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1946.html 18:20:15 <Phantom_Hoover> they're part of the same geological formation 18:20:27 <elliott> `addquote <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range 18:20:31 <HackEgo> 1095) <Bike> are you saying the rockies and some mountains in norway are the same range 18:20:48 <Bike> oh, right, continents move sometimes 18:20:57 <Phantom_Hoover> they're tricky like that 18:21:02 <Bike> but seriously the "rockies" go down to antarctica. damn yo 18:21:20 <boily> am I allowed to forward the quote list to a friend to help him understand the extent of what #esöteric is, or must this valuable knowledge be kept hidden? 18:21:26 <Bike> elliott: i like how my quotes get across that i am an idiot 18:21:30 <mnoqy> antarctica is probably rocky yes 18:21:35 <mnoqy> `pastequotes bike 18:21:41 <Bike> boily: don't tell anyone, but i've done it........... 18:21:43 <mnoqy> interested re: this idiot business 18:21:44 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18054 18:21:46 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastequotes boily 18:21:51 <Bike> wow ur mean mnoqy 18:21:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25683 18:22:18 <boily> uhm. how come the only boily quote that comes out is that one? 18:22:20 <Phantom_Hoover> disappointing 18:22:25 <Bike> `quote boily 18:22:26 <HackEgo> 925) <olsner> boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 926) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it \ 935) <boily> not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 938) <boily> ais523: I'm not sure my 18:22:39 <boily> I mean. I got an impressive record just there ↑ 18:22:59 <boily> (fsvo impressive. with the current economy collapse, that's what you get.) 18:23:12 <Bike> i still laugh at elliott's hawaii quote 18:23:25 <boily> `pastequotes 18:23:30 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14992 18:24:08 <nooodl> good hawaii quote 18:24:12 <boily> Bike: I like the lens one. perfectly coherent. 18:24:17 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote hawaii 18:24:18 <HackEgo> 901) <elliott> okay so <elliott> i went to wikimapia per Bike <elliott> and found a tiny little nowhere that looked like it might be it <elliott> zoomed in <elliott> thought aw yeah this looks remote maybe it's it <elliott> turns out it's hawaii <elliott> i am not very good at this 18:24:49 <Bike> boily: slightly worried that i have more than one lens quote 18:25:30 <boily> Bike: oh hm. you should use lenses to gather them, then. 18:25:45 <Bike> gosh 18:26:25 <boily> Bike: there, some weeabeats to distract you: http://youtu.be/w6DUeJHYTRU 18:26:37 <Bike> i have no ears rn, lent them out 18:26:39 <Bike> thx anyway tho 18:27:54 <boily> why do you always invoke registered nurses... 18:27:56 <boily> ~duck tho 18:27:56 -!- augur has joined. 18:27:56 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 18:28:13 <Bike> nurses do a lot of good work ,man. 18:31:55 <Taneb> `quote navajo 18:31:56 <HackEgo> 728) <Taneb> hang on I have bright idea <Taneb> navajo to f me 1 in 3 people 18:32:08 <Taneb> `quote profanity spe 18:32:09 <HackEgo> 729) <Taneb> profanity specialities 18:32:17 <Taneb> `quote you verse 18:32:19 <HackEgo> 730) <Taneb> thank you verse I'm not quite innocent 18:32:24 <mnoqy> is this from when you tried speech recognition 18:32:25 <Taneb> That was a fun half hour 18:32:27 <Taneb> Yup 18:32:31 <boily> Taneb is fungot. 18:32:32 <fungot> boily: sir john. neighbour banks, into brian's walk, the mad keeper. here comes brabantio and the valiant moor. 18:32:39 <mnoqy> what a good technology 18:33:16 <Taneb> `quote hang on 18:33:18 <HackEgo> 719) <Ngevd> I don't know which version of Linux kernel I'm using atm <Ngevd> Hang on <Ngevd> I'm on Windows 18:33:52 <boily> is identity commutative? 18:34:08 <mnoqy> yes 18:35:36 <boily> mnoqy: thanks. I was worried for a moment there. 18:35:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:40:44 <kmc> Taneb: those are fun quotes 18:40:56 <kmc> do you remember what you said? 18:41:18 <Taneb> kmc, apart from "Hang on, I have a bright idea", no 18:41:39 <Taneb> Also, I've just realised I pronounce xor the same as one of the Latin words for wife 18:41:55 <kmc> which word? 18:42:49 <Taneb> "uxor" 18:42:56 <Taneb> Which would, I guess, make sense 18:43:01 <boily> gzeaurre? 18:45:01 <Taneb> I have a stupid awful speech thingy 18:45:20 <Taneb> Where speech thingy is somewhere between accent and voice 18:47:04 <Taneb> (I begin both "xor" and "uxor" with kind of a very short oo sound) 18:47:22 <Fiora> I say "zor" I think 18:47:28 <Bike> me too 18:48:00 <boily> I say «gzor». 18:48:02 <kmc> i say either "zor" or "eks or" depending 18:48:07 <nooodl> uxor is pronounced "ook-sor" though, not "uck-sor" 18:48:23 <nooodl> oh it is a short oo sound? wow that's a weird way to say xor 18:48:27 <kmc> obviously one should say "add in the finite field of size 2" 18:48:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i say 'chor' 18:48:40 <nooodl> Phantom_Hoover: <3 18:48:43 <Taneb> Very back of the throat vowel sound, too 18:49:06 <mnoqy> i try to avoid situations in which i'd have to say xor 18:49:52 <kmc> life goals 18:49:58 <kmc> just say no to xor 18:50:53 <nooodl> me too mnoqy :( 18:51:15 <nooodl> i guess hypothetically i'd just say ksor 18:51:26 <nooodl> (what the heck is english's problem with initial /ks/) 18:52:18 <Jafet> Pronounce xor, instead of "xor" or "xor", "xor" xor "xor". 18:52:41 <mnoqy> im fine with ~ksor~ and ~zor~ and i could probably say either if i'm not paying attention to how i pronounce things 18:52:54 <mnoqy> under such circumstances i can also see myself saying "exclusive or" though 18:53:26 <zzo38> Someone once said you have to hit you and "or", to make "xor" 18:53:34 <zzo38> But that isn't a real speech 18:53:35 <Koen_> you can say ksor or you can say zor but you can't say both 18:57:55 <nooodl> also: i'd probably say "ksnor" 19:01:11 <Koen_> I've never understood that one 19:01:19 <Koen_> "xnor" is the same as "not xor" right? 19:01:23 <Koen_> so that should be nxor 19:01:44 <zzo38> Koen_: Yes I agree I have called it NXOR instead of XNOR usually 19:01:46 <Koen_> "exclusive nor" doesn't make that much sense does it? 19:01:58 <Koen_> oh good 19:02:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:03:43 <boily> during Bike's absence, I autoproclaim myself to be the appointed oppressor. 19:04:07 <boily> I arbitrarily declare zzo38 to be oppressed. 19:04:38 <kmc> i call it "equals" 19:05:07 <zzo38> Why do you arbitrarily declare zzo38 to be oppressed. 19:05:25 <Koen_> I'm sure that was arbitrary, nothing personnal 19:05:34 <boily> exactly. 19:06:11 <boily> I guess I could have thrown some dice to randomly have an oppressed designated victim, but then it'd have implied a very complex chorded keypress to get to the tilde. 19:06:16 -!- Bike has joined. 19:06:28 <Phantom_Hoover> is declaring someone to be oppressed a form of oppression 19:06:37 <boily> Bike: go away. I like my power just fine. 19:06:48 <Bike> nah 19:06:58 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: yup! the easiest form you can imbue yourself with! 19:07:57 <zzo38> Actually I just wonder why, is all. 19:08:41 <boily> there's no why. in fact, as a dictator, I shouldn't have to provide any why. 19:09:24 <boily> and if you question my decision, I'll unleash a cold, wet and slimy starfish upon you. 19:10:41 <zzo38> I don't care; I think we should need to know why! 19:11:11 * boily hones a starfish... 19:25:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:36:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:36:53 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Excess Flood). 19:40:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:42:23 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:42:30 <oerjan> @messages-loud 19:42:30 <lambdabot> elliott said 5h 28m 34s ago: I frown upon this loophole 19:42:30 <lambdabot> boily said 5h 27m 18s ago: why are you being frowned at? 19:43:17 <oerjan> boily: he doesn't like me using the quit message to get around the script preventing me from saying 19:43:59 <boily> there's... what? a script from unhthing you? 19:44:05 <boily> I like that concept. 19:44:56 <oerjan> it's not unprecedented, Gregor ha[ds] a script to stop him saying :P 19:45:08 <Gregor> I no longer need it. 19:45:11 <Gregor> I don't use that smiley anymore. 19:47:08 <oerjan> good, good 19:47:48 <boily> hth, hth. 19:48:46 -!- sacje has joined. 19:55:38 <boily> sacje: today's Question: how do you feel about insertino? 19:55:40 <boily> s/no/on/ 19:57:16 <sacje> i believe it is a complicated manner and i will consider all the options before arriving at a conclusion 19:57:19 <sacje> matter 20:00:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:01:12 <ais523> hey, anyone here know a file on Linux that can be opened for read successfully, but which cannot be successfully read from? 20:01:13 <boily> sacje: tbh it's a matter of to vim or not to vim. 20:01:21 <boily> ais523: /dev/zero? 20:01:31 <ais523> nah, you can read from that successfully 20:01:33 <ais523> you get a bunch of zeros 20:01:54 <kmc> what about /dev/full 20:02:01 <ais523> hmm… the man page suggests that a tty may work in a process that ignores SIGTTIN 20:02:06 <ais523> kmc: I think that returns EOF 20:02:13 <kmc> oh mine returns zeroes 20:02:17 <boily> ~duck SIGTTIN 20:02:18 <metasepia> On POSIX-compliant platforms, SIGTTIN is the signal sent to a process when it attempts to read from the tty while in the background. 20:02:18 <ais523> or that 20:02:25 <kmc> I thought there was supposed to be /dev/empty but I don't have one 20:02:33 <boily> SIGTTIN sounds right, but complex. 20:02:34 <ais523> it's easy enough to create 20:02:38 <ais523> touch /dev/empty ;) 20:02:48 <boily> what about mknodding it? 20:03:35 <olsner> doesn't /dev/null do that? 20:03:44 <ais523> yeah, /dev/null is empty on read 20:04:39 <olsner> did you want something that actually fails on read rather than behave as an empty file? 20:05:09 <ais523> olsner: yeah, I want the read to physically error out 20:05:26 <boily> is it possible to emulate a disk IO error? 20:05:43 <olsner> if you want that file as stdin maybe <&- or something could work? 20:05:45 <boily> I think there was a research fake filesystem that you fused for that kind of fuzzing purpose. 20:05:47 <ais523> this came out out of a discussion about whether "return NULL;" is a valid implementation of gets() 20:05:51 <ais523> boily: web of lies could do it 20:05:53 <zzo38> ~duck ~duck 20:05:54 <metasepia> I am the duck. Dax the duck. 20:05:59 <boily> WHAT? 20:06:08 <ais523> but I'm not mentally up to screwing with that codebase yet 20:06:21 <boily> zzo38: woooooooooah... that is some nifty discovery. 20:06:27 <kmc> you could just write a kernel module 20:06:34 <ais523> boily: basically it's a debugger-like system that sandboxes a program, also can cause arbitrary system calls it makes to return arbitrary return values 20:06:50 <ais523> it's not very hard to make it output -EIO to any attempt to call read(), for instance 20:06:52 <boily> ~duck ~duck duck 20:06:52 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 20:06:57 <boily> ~duck ~duck ~duck 20:06:58 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 20:07:05 <ais523> rather harder to make it return -EIO only on specific read attempts, though 20:08:46 <olsner> `run cat <&- 20:08:48 <HackEgo> cat: -: Bad file descriptor \ cat: closing standard input: Bad file descriptor 20:09:26 <ais523> hmm… the first error there is perfectly reasonable 20:09:28 <ais523> the second, however, isn't 20:09:31 <ais523> bug in cat? 20:10:04 <boily> I have: ... 20:10:06 <boily> cat: -: Mauvais descripteur de fichier 20:10:08 <boily> cat: fermeture de l'entrée standard: Mauvais descripteur de fichier 20:10:27 <olsner> I think it's trying to read from (and then close) fd 0 but there's no file open for that file descriptor (bash closed it) 20:10:48 <ais523> olsner: sure 20:10:57 <ais523> but if you try to read from a file descriptor and discover it doesn't exist 20:11:02 <ais523> trying to follow up by closing it is a bug 20:11:16 <ais523> boily: I actually have a French locale installed specifically for the purpose of making sure I don't make assumptions about locale when parsing error output from programs 20:12:25 <zzo38> ais523: I didn't consider that, although it is a good idea. However another idea might be for your program to switch to a default locale while running in order to avoid these problem. 20:12:25 <boily> my $LANG is set to fr_CA.UTF-8 because that's the way I like it, and because our workplace mandates having everythin in french. 20:12:43 <boily> s/n\b/ng/ 20:12:50 <ais523> zzo38: that is my solution, but I need a second locale installed to test that that solution works 20:13:08 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, OK, that makes sense. 20:13:38 <ais523> the other reason I have it installed is so that I can check for encoding problems in parsing locale-specific error messages, when the user requests that 20:14:32 <kmc> Mauvais descripteur de fichier 20:15:11 <ais523> `run cat - - <&- 20:15:12 <HackEgo> cat: -: Bad file descriptor \ cat: -: Bad file descriptor \ cat: closing standard input: Bad file descriptor 20:15:16 <Bike> boily: you in quebec or new brunswick or what, out of curiosity 20:15:39 <ais523> OK, I'm guessing that cat attempts to close stdin no matter what 20:15:44 <ais523> cat /etc/passwd <&- 20:15:47 <ais523> `run cat /etc/passwd <&- 20:15:48 <HackEgo> cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory 20:15:55 <ais523> or, not? 20:16:00 <ais523> `run cat - /etc/passwd - <&- 20:16:01 <HackEgo> cat: -: Bad file descriptor \ cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory \ cat: -: Bad file descriptor \ cat: closing standard input: Bad file descriptor 20:16:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:16:28 <olsner> it may or may not close stdin? is this a good thing to do 20:16:45 <Koen_> why have I never tried closing stdin 20:16:56 <ais523> Koen_: because it's normally pointless 20:16:56 <olsner> why doesn't each - get its own close attempt? 20:17:04 <ais523> it's quite reasonable when daemonizing, though 20:17:16 <Koen_> ais523: probably, but it sounds like something I'd need to *test* 20:17:28 <ais523> closing stderr is more fun 20:17:37 <ais523> `run cat /etc/passwd 2>&- 20:17:38 <HackEgo> No output. 20:17:41 <Koen_> but recently there's a lot of stuff I don't think about testing 20:17:50 <ais523> because you can't tell whether the command malfunctions or not 20:17:50 <Koen_> I used to wanna test everything 20:18:04 <ais523> except via strace or the like 20:19:20 <ais523> $ strace -e trace=write -o /tmp/t cat /nonexistent 2>&- 20:19:47 <ais523> apparently, it keeps trying to write error messages even though the kernel's spamming -EBADF at it 20:20:24 <ais523> hmm… if stdout is closed, do freshly opened files get the number 2 or 3? 20:20:28 <ais523> *stderr 20:21:49 <boily> Bike: in Montréal. 20:21:56 <Bike> k 20:22:16 <olsner> `run ls -l /proc/self/fd <&- 20:22:18 <HackEgo> total 0 \ lr-x------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 0 -> /proc/287/fd \ l-wx------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 1 -> pipe:[251] \ l-wx------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 2 -> /tty1 \ lr-x------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 3 -> /console \ l-wx------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 4 -> /console \ lr-x------ 1 5000 928466 64 Aug 26 20:22 5 -> /tty1 20:23:24 <ais523> olsner: clever 20:23:34 <oerjan> `quote boily 20:23:35 <HackEgo> 926) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it 20:23:45 <oerjan> boily: trailing space 20:23:49 <ais523> it appears to have opened a directory onto fd 0 20:24:06 <ais523> ooh, this has /lots/ of scope for causing programs to malfunction in bizarre ways 20:24:49 <boily> oerjan: where do I trail? what have a incongruously spaced? 20:25:02 <oerjan> boily: wat 20:25:21 <Roujo> boily: You're trailed your trail in space 20:25:38 <oerjan> boily: `quote boily gives just that quote when there's a space after the y 20:25:51 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:26:08 <oerjan> this is a frequent result of tab completing nicks, i've fixed it in several other commands 20:26:10 <ais523> ~eval 1+2 20:26:10 <metasepia> 3 20:26:16 <boily> oerjan: s/\ba\b/I/ 20:26:34 <olsner> `quote \> 20:26:35 <boily> oerjan: ooooooh... 20:26:35 <HackEgo> 84) <AnMaster> fungot!*@* added to ignore list. <fungot> AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack. \ 89) <soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect <soupdragon> ^ I learned that trick from atheists \ 298) <zzo38> <elliott> 20:26:56 <ais523> olsner: what are you trying to match there? 20:27:00 <boily> ais523: my bot works just fine. 20:27:08 <ais523> > and two spaces? 20:27:09 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:16: 20:27:09 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched... 20:27:09 <boily> `quote ~ 20:27:11 <HackEgo> 758) <monqy> ophanim: omee~ \ 923) <Sgeo> I feel like (A.~[:i.[:!#) is verbose \ 926) <elliott> ~eval 1+2 <cuttlefish> Error (127): <elliott> this is a great bot boily i love it 20:27:12 <ais523> trailing spaces are hard to see 20:27:12 <olsner> ais523: trailing spaces yes 20:27:27 <boily> ais523: you don't say. 20:27:53 <mnoqy> `delquote 758 20:27:58 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <monqy> ophanim: omee~ 20:28:11 <ais523> yeah, that quote needed deleting 20:28:13 <boily> who was ophanim? why did mnoqy omee~ him/her/it/[EXPUNGED]? 20:28:24 <mnoqy> good question 20:28:30 <olsner> what is omee~? 20:28:55 <mnoqy> good question 20:28:59 <boily> ~duck omee 20:29:00 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 20:30:02 <boily> `? ophanim 20:30:03 <HackEgo> ophanim? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:30:04 <myndzi> | 20:30:04 <myndzi> o/`¯º 20:31:57 <Koen_> ais523: so as it turns out, writing the .c file to close stdin with emacs caused the terminal to crash 20:32:06 <Koen_> I mean I didn't even compile it 20:32:07 <oerjan> Gregor: have you considered making HackEgo strip final spaces on input 20:32:14 <ais523> Koen_: that is probably some other problem, then 20:32:22 <Koen_> are you sure? 20:32:27 <ais523> it's rare for C files to do anything useful unless an attempt is made to compile and/or run them 20:32:38 <Koen_> I think the terminal understood I was trying to harm it 20:32:48 <Koen_> and shut me out before I could do so 20:33:15 <olsner> some C files are also programs in other languages (but even then, you usually have to compile or run them) 20:34:18 <ais523> olsner: I specifically said "compile and/or run" for that reason :) 20:37:12 <olsner> it'd be interesting to have a file where viewing it is enough to cause the terminal to "compile and/or run" it 20:37:52 <ais523> olsner: I have a few terminal test files which are specifically used via catting them to the terminal 20:38:08 <ais523> which are polyglots of various terminal types 20:38:43 <ais523> see, for instance, http://nethack4.org/media/charset.vt100 20:39:58 <boily> I don't have IBM graphics :( 20:40:46 <Koen_> ais523: so apparently closing stdin, stdout or stderr doesn't have any effect other than them not being open any more 20:41:03 <ais523> Koen_: on the terminal? no, it doesn't 20:41:09 <Koen_> but write(STDOUT, str, len); doesn't crash when stdout is closed, it just doesn't do anything 20:41:10 <ais523> terminals mostly don't care which programs have the open 20:41:27 <ais523> the system call returns -EBADF 20:41:40 <ais523> which translates into setting errno to EBADF and returning the error return value, in C 20:41:51 <Koen_> oh right 20:42:04 <Koen_> I may have discarded the return value 20:43:14 <Koen_> http://pastebin.com/8TCfmYrM 20:59:04 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:59:32 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? 21:00:01 <boily> stupid undocumented mess of a fungot of stupid XML of the hair of a horse's buttocks. 21:00:02 <fungot> boily: macd. is thy name: i like not faire tearmes, and a slaue of mee, as i take it 21:00:59 <boily> when you get a json error complaining about a mismatched '}' because you swapped single and double quote in a tag attribute... 21:00:59 <fizzie> fungot: Do you mind people (well, just boily, I guess) using you as a swear word? 21:01:01 <fungot> fizzie: enter count rossillion and the frenchmen, as at work: my old master, and to drinkings and swearings and starings, pribbles and prabbles? will not he? catesby. he doth entreat your grace to his maiesties parliament, holden at bury the first of britain which did put his browes within a golden crowne, heauen for his mercy: hear your sentence you haue conspir'd against our royal person as is the air, and forth again, as if 21:01:31 <boily> frenchmen and rossillions and salmiakki, oh my! 21:01:41 * boily wildly flails around 21:03:36 <boily> fizzie: I can't use my precious bot as a swearing target, and I have a sentimental attachment to yours. 21:04:20 <boily> ∴, fungot has it. besides, it helps me calm down like a nice mint herbal tea. 21:04:20 <fungot> boily: 1. tis likely, by all your good leaues gentlemen; heere ile make my heauen in a ladies lappe, and she there dead, that's romeos faithfull wife: i, and the tallest: it is my fashion when i see my shame in him. 21:08:04 <ais523> what would make you want to use the name of a bot as a swearword anyway, though? 21:08:58 <boily> no idea. it works. 21:09:16 <olsner> fungot: what did you do to deserve this? 21:09:17 <fungot> olsner: othello. would! nay, hear me, hero: wooing, wedding, and repenting is as a fever longing still, for that which is the mightier, in his time thought false: and fnord crispian shall ne're goe by, from this vnhallow'd and blood-stained hole? 21:09:47 -!- conehead has joined. 21:10:44 <olsner> Fnord Crispian, sounds namey 21:11:16 <boily> what's my daily dibs quota? I'd really like to use that name for my next roleplay. 21:12:00 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:12:26 -!- carado has joined. 21:19:32 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:20:30 <zzo38> What roleplay? 21:21:04 <olsner> boily: ask fungot nicely and it might give you the rights 21:21:05 <fungot> olsner: bull. i know him, ' tis not my profit that does lead mine honour: mine honour it, repent that ere thy tongue, that truth should be suspected. speak, pyramus. thisby, stand forth. 21:21:31 <boily> zzo38: D&D 4e. 21:21:56 <boily> fungot: please, with shiny teary eyes as in 少女 anime? 21:21:56 <fungot> boily: cas. how now, what newes with your mastership? la. i prethee recount some of them. 21:22:10 <boily> eeeeh...? 21:22:15 <zzo38> I don't really like 4e much; I like 3.5e 21:22:24 <zzo38> You can play 4e if you want, though 21:22:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:56 <olsner> boily: fungot prethees, make of that what you want 21:22:57 <fungot> olsner: falstaff. let me be punish'd, sovereign, lest example breed, by his highness' warrant, master shrieve: dispose of them, and if it be now, ' tis with vs, we shall begin our ancient fnord lordings, farewell; and be proud of thy bondage. i have it: we have always truly serv'd you; and beseech so to esteem of us: keep on your way 21:23:12 <boily> @tell zzo38 our DM's been working for some time now on a custom system that we haven't tested yet. 21:23:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:23:49 <boily> we also play paranoia from time to time, but my character's name is fixed and set. «Shlebesh Gurgudugurgudu». 21:28:56 <oerjan> i doubt the Computer would approve of that name, Citizen 21:31:09 <boily> it's my own personal name. other people don't have to know it :D 21:32:04 <Taneb> I don't think the computer approves of secrets, Citizen 21:33:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:33:47 <olsner> `? boily 21:33:49 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. 21:34:43 <Taneb> `? olsner 21:34:45 <HackEgo> olsner seems to exist at least. 21:34:55 <Taneb> So he definitely isn't Canadian 21:34:58 <Taneb> `? Ngevd 21:35:00 <HackEgo> ​+z`o|Vˏy;X pig霛҆DN̜b35Ri{w\dZ_5SVl&a?NJ;y.#.I \ /Do 0?CК0%! \ T= FwuO-"]ArUH5?; \ ;03V LӊԻU=| 21:35:31 <Phantom_Hoover> `? Roujo 21:35:33 <HackEgo> Roujo is still a Java heretic. His claim to Canadianness is soon to be verified by boily, treaties be damned. A cocktail and destruction of the Universe are scheduled at 19h00. 21:35:34 <olsner> well, stuff like Canada may *seem* to exist without actually existing 21:35:45 <Phantom_Hoover> `? canada 21:35:46 <HackEgo> canada? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:35:46 <myndzi> | 21:35:47 <myndzi> º¯`\o 21:36:17 <Taneb> olsner, ever seen Scott Pilgrim? In that film, Canada doesn't seem to exist at all! 21:36:23 <ais523> olsner: I think we've decided that Canada is in fact the only country such that we're confident it exists 21:36:51 <olsner> ais523: wow, what a plot twist 21:36:55 <olsner> when did this happen? 21:37:18 <ais523> a while back, not quite sure how long, though; it's possible that time itself is unreliable for that purpose 21:37:23 <olsner> Taneb: as far as I recall that film had nothing to do with Canada 21:37:33 <oerjan> it is possible ais523 got sent through an anti-truth wormhole 21:37:34 <Phantom_Hoover> exactly 21:37:39 <Phantom_Hoover> `? oerjan 21:37:41 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 21:37:50 <Phantom_Hoover> `? elliott 21:37:51 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur. 21:38:06 <Phantom_Hoover> `? d-module 21:38:06 <Taneb> olsner, the first line is "In the far off land of Toronto, Canada, Scott Pilgrim is dating a high schooler" 21:38:07 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 21:38:32 <olsner> is it possible for time to conspire such that the time during which we're confident that Canada exists doesn't exist? 21:39:11 <Taneb> I think so, but I'm not confident 21:40:30 <Roujo> Neither am I 21:40:38 <Roujo> I can confirm that Canada can exist 21:40:45 <Roujo> Whether it does... 21:40:51 * Roujo shrugs 21:40:58 <Roujo> Or, simply put: 21:41:07 <Roujo> `? whether it does 21:41:09 <HackEgo> whether it does? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:41:09 <myndzi> | 21:41:09 <myndzi> o/`¯º 21:41:24 <Taneb> Canada may be the country I've got second-closest to on land without actually visiting 21:41:45 <Taneb> Second to the Vatican 21:42:06 <olsner> when in rome ... visit the vatican! 21:42:13 <kmc> what about passing through on a train without stopping 21:42:14 <kmc> does that count 21:42:25 <olsner> (on second thought, don't bother, it's really just a big church) 21:42:31 <kmc> it's pretty! 21:42:54 <boily> kmc: we don't have trains. rumours of Via Rail still existing are unfounded and blatant lies. 21:46:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:49:04 <kmc> btw happy UK Summer Bank Holiday everyone! 21:49:17 <kmc> (Scotland excepted) 21:49:27 <ais523> kmc: hmm, thanks 21:49:36 <ais523> although that mostly just annoyed me 21:49:39 <ais523> via closing shops 21:49:42 <kmc> mm 21:50:55 <boily> ~duck mm 21:50:56 <metasepia> mm definition: messieurs. 21:51:53 <oerjan> mm and mselles 21:52:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 21:53:04 <boily> @localtime fizzie 21:53:04 <lambdabot> Local time for fizzie is Tue Aug 27 00:53:04 2013 21:53:18 <boily> @tell oerjan お休みなさい! 21:53:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:58:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:06:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:06:36 -!- Bike has joined. 22:13:32 -!- itsy has joined. 22:27:12 <boily> hellotsy. 22:34:01 <Bike> http://books.google.com/books/about/Ramanujan_Revisited.html?id=GJUEAQAAIAAJ "Religion > Hinduism > General" hey how about fuck you 22:34:46 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:34 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:45:11 <kmc> bikeyellsatamazon.tumblr.com 22:45:36 <Bike> why would follow any other tumblr? (TM) 22:45:57 <boily> it should feature tom selleck, waterfalls and sandwiches. 22:51:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]). 22:51:59 -!- augur has joined. 22:52:09 <itsy> Helloily. 22:57:14 -!- sacje has joined. 23:03:57 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:04:11 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:04:14 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:12:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:19:54 <kmc> Address 0x1 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd 23:20:09 <Bike> who would have guessed 23:20:42 <ais523> what might be fun: find a platform where the stack grows upwards 23:20:54 <ais523> and using mmap and sigaltstack trickery, get the stack to start at NULL 23:27:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:27:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:32 <boily> nothing like a good youtube touhou mix full blast in your earphones when doing overtime. 23:41:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:47:00 -!- Bike has joined. 23:51:24 -!- kallisti has joined. 23:51:24 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 23:51:24 -!- kallisti has joined.