00:01:28 -!- itsy has left. 00:01:30 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]). 00:04:43 -!- dessos_ has changed nick to dessos. 00:11:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:47:10 "In reality, cats do possess the ability to turn themselves right side up in mid-air if they should fall upside-down [...] Toast, however, lacks both the ability and the desire to right itself." wikipedia has some of the most amazing quotes 00:47:46 I feel the aleged desire of cats to fall right side up should be gone into deeper here 00:47:56 Maybe you should contribute some quotes like these. 00:48:04 Wikipedia articles don't just right themselves, you know. 00:48:06 You know for NPOV 00:48:46 okay "Toast, however, lacks both the ability and the desire to right itself." has to go down as one of the greatest Wikipedia quotes of all time 00:49:08 That page should be nominated for deletion. 00:49:15 "running ensembl vep on vcf from gatk unifiedgenotyper; not sensible right?" help 00:49:34 You'd get the same result from tying two cats or two buttered toasts to each other. 00:49:39 Except better. 00:49:46 So, really, a better result. 00:49:56 that just doesn't have the same winning combination of animal abuse + breakfast. 00:50:01 This page was nominated for deletion on 2006-03-28. The result of the discussion was no consensus. 00:50:04 This page was nominated for deletion on 2007-09-03. The result of the discussion was keep. 00:50:40 Fiora: oh wow, that toast quote is even cited 00:50:51 what's the cite. 00:50:55 admittedly it's cited to mythbustersresults.com. 00:51:08 In an extensive and highly objective test the toast showed no statistical preference for landing buttered side-down or up when dropped. It was an even 50-50 split when the final results were compared. However, when pushed off the side of a table, toast showed preference to flip once and land buttered side down. 00:51:17 The citation doesn't say anything about desire. 00:51:28 That looks like vandalism... 00:51:32 Better add a [not in citation] 00:51:34 well, desire ~ preferance. 00:51:40 I'll allow it. 00:52:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Buttered_cat_paradox&diff=559007493&oldid=557098109 00:52:13 I think that quote should stay for being basicall the best thing 00:52:17 great edit summary 00:52:22 hey, hey, no. Why are you even concluding that what the toast does is indicative of its preference? What if it's trapped with locked-in-to-toast syndrome? 00:52:38 neds a cite to the journal of toast neuroscience 00:52:43 yes. 00:52:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Buttered_cat_paradox&diff=535743465&oldid=535663473 00:52:57 Thanks, Rory. Thory. 00:53:06 How do you nominate things for deletion? 00:53:07 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:53:11 Maybe I can get oerjan to do it. 00:53:16 "The fact buttered toast lacks cognition does not need to be cited." oh my gosh that edit summary 00:53:20 I cannot get over that edit summary 00:53:39 wow, that's very short-sighted! panpsychism is a serious theory! 00:53:42 However, toast, lacking both muscles and a desire to orient any particular way, 00:53:50 disappointed in this argument tbh 00:53:52 xD 00:54:08 so what about clams on toast 00:54:19 Clams? 00:54:23 everyone knows toast is liquid anyway 00:54:25 you know. mussels. 00:54:29 otherwise how do you drink it 00:54:30 checkmate 00:54:30 I'm sorry. 00:54:50 «The output of an [[active noise control]] system which cancels an existing noise, leaving the local environment noise free. The [[comic book]] character [[Iron Man]] used to have a "black light beam" that could darken a room in this manner, and popular [[science fiction]] has a tendency to portray active noise control in this light." The ''[[Batman Beyond]]'' supervillian Shriek also had a weapon like this, which 00:54:58 elliott 00:55:01 why are you being so shellfish 00:55:20 TRIPLEFIN BLENNY 00:55:29 triplefin blenny.. 00:57:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/C%CC%AC%CC%A4%CC%AC%CD%94%CC%AE%CC%BA%CC%8B%CC%84%CC%84%CC%82%CC%93%CC%80%CD%A7%CC%90h%CC%BA%CD%8B%CD%A7%CC%93%CC%8F%CC%84%CD%82%CC%89%CC%93%CD%A6a%CD%94%CC%AC%CD%AB%CC%8E%CD%AD%CC%83%CC%83%CD%8A%CC%8A%C3%AC%CC%9C%CD%94%CC%BC%CD%93%CC%B0%CC%B1%CD%8D%CD%88%CC%B0%CC%8A%CC%89%CD%92%C5%88%CC%A4%CC%83%CD%A9%CC%92%CD%9C%CD%9C%CD%9Ef%CC%AA%CC%B2%CC%96%CC%8F%CD%A8%CC%88%CD%8B%CC%83%CC%9Aa%CC%B4%CC%AA%CC%AE%CD%A7%CC%93%CD%A3%CC%88%CC 00:57:55 Buttered cat: Wales’s favourite Wikipedia entry 00:57:55 nice it got cut off. 00:57:57 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/wikipedia/8867079/Jimmy-Wales-Wikipedia-can-topple-tyrants.html 00:58:56 elliott: this name seems hard to pronounce 00:59:26 If this article is deleted I will hew your wife in twain and turn your innards into poisonous snakes. --70.126.190.75 (talk) 01:47, 30 July 2011 (UTC) 00:59:32 thanks wikipedia person 01:01:39 think you should take this threat seriously 01:02:40 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:02:53 How can you turn your innards into poisonous snakes? 01:03:02 genetic engineering 01:03:10 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:04:10 zzo38: hugz 01:14:10 -!- CADD has joined. 01:15:34 `erflist 114 01:15:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: erflist: not found 01:15:54 `run cp bin/{empty,erf}list 01:15:57 No output. 01:18:08 `erflist 114 01:18:09 erflist 114: 01:19:05 does anyone even read error function world 01:21:46 I don't know, but I suppose now you have it there in case anyone does 01:22:45 zzo38: Do you read `olist? 01:23:20 shachaf: No 01:23:35 I don't read any of these things that you have list for updates 01:28:41 zzo38: Which things do you read? Maybe we should make lists for them. 01:29:53 -!- kallisti has joined. 01:30:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:12 I don't really read anything regularly, but I do write Dungeons&Dragons recording. 01:33:05 Where? 01:33:16 Can I read Dungeons&Dragons recording? 01:34:02 http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 01:34:53 There is also the DVI compiled of it, and the dungeonsrecording.tex in the same directory which contains macros used for this file 01:36:56 Is there a PDF? 01:37:00 That would be better for me. 01:37:51 No there is none; if you want that you have to compile it yourself. 01:38:22 Could you make one? 01:38:29 However, the source file isn't so difficult to read. 01:38:40 No I don't have the program to compile it to PDF 01:39:35 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:40:07 Now we are going back to the Boar Head Inn. Some of the chairs are broken, so Kjugobe uses some magic to make up a new chair. He borrows some writing equipment, and writes ``DO NOT SIT HERE PAST THE HOURS OF 6AM'' on the chair. (It seems likely some people will not understand the purpose of this message, ignore it, sit there anyways, and fall on the floor at 6AM when the chair disappears.) 01:40:20 `smlist (416) 01:40:22 smlist (416): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 01:40:24 hi 01:45:29 zzo38: who do you play D&D with? 01:47:41 Who is Also? 01:48:45 And, I suppose, Isolde. 01:49:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZODtmaHIQng meanwhile, on the internet. 01:49:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 01:53:27 shachaf: They are other characters; those players aren't always in, but they are the people I know. Kjugobe is my character. 01:54:01 (The name "Also" can certainly cause grammatical confusion, as it sometimes does) 01:55:17 Do you like this kind of story/game? 01:55:20 Meanwhile, Isolde goes back to the castle, and tries to serve the chancellor breakfast with these fertilized eggs, but the guards will not let Isolde to do so. Isolde tries to tell them, ``but, the eggs are hatching!'' Isolde hopes that the guards will take a closer look, and that they will immediately hatch and they will get scared to death; or else they will start laughing, fall to the floor, and trip on their own swords and die. 01:55:38 good plan 01:56:18 That's a big file. I can't read it all right now. 01:56:30 That's OK. I didn't write it all at once either. 02:00:10 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:05:49 Can GCC automatically know that (x&4)>>1 and (x&4?2:0) is equivalent and optimize them into each other? 02:06:34 I find this and other bitwise manipulation is common in C programs I write. 02:07:21 You can find out what GCC optimizes particular code into easily enough. 02:08:29 What the type type of x? 02:09:11 It could be any integer type; but maybe some are different due to the CPU instruction set? I don't know. 02:10:24 type type, or kind as we call it 02:13:06 &4?2:0 mask bits everyday 02:14:27 kmc: btw have you considered that the halting problem exists and therefore all optimizers are pointless 02:14:58 might as well give up now 02:15:08 That doesn't make optimizers pointless. 02:15:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:15:33 i don't even see the connection :/ 02:15:40 i mean i'm sure it's a joke, but 02:16:21 hi 02:16:29 It might mean that perfect optimization isn't always necessarily possible for looping programs, though. 02:16:51 it might (does) mean that 02:17:10 clearly: dont use looping program 02:17:14 shachaf: it's funny because this is how people talk about security? 02:17:56 well.....not completely sure about the "it's funny" part 02:18:22 but you were making that reference? 02:18:34 along those lines 02:19:05 k 02:24:24 -!- tertu has joined. 02:25:25 kmc: hm the new episodes of that show are coming out in ~1.5 weeks 02:26:16 should i watch them as they come out or wait until the end 02:26:37 which show 02:26:48 breaking bad 02:27:05 have you seen everything thus far 02:27:34 yes 02:28:33 I watched season 5 (I) as it came out and I feel good about my choice 02:28:52 and I won't have the restraint to wait until 5 (II) is done to watch it, even if I wanted to 02:28:59 and I want to watch with friends and discuss and such 02:35:16 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:35:26 -!- kallisti has joined. 02:43:58 Should strcpy return the number of characters in the source string? I think it might be a useful thing for it to do. 02:44:45 -!- tswett has changed nick to Ocqueoc. 02:45:02 Pronounced OCK-ee-ock. 02:45:18 What is "Ocqueoc", though? 02:45:33 Apparently it's a French word meaning "crooked waters". 02:45:45 It's a stream in Presque Isle County. 02:45:53 Which I'm sure all of you have heard of. 02:47:16 I haven't heard of it. 02:47:46 But now you have. 02:49:09 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:50:00 -!- kallisti has joined. 02:50:00 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 02:50:00 -!- kallisti has joined. 02:58:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:58:35 What should be a algorithm to generete random UUID? 02:59:08 1) call the microsoft API function 2) done 3) forever 02:59:24 But the program will be cross-platform and not only Microsoft 02:59:53 https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights 03:00:06 @tell olsner HackEgo cannot send private messages hth 03:00:07 Consider it noted. 03:00:36 oerjan: then what kinds of messages is it sending me 03:00:52 particularly, https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights/status/342822403690352641 03:00:56 @tell olsner I mean, in response to public commands. 03:00:56 Consider it noted. 03:05:13 @tell boily I do not believe it is possible to experimentally distinguish extremely huge finite from infinite hth 03:05:13 Consider it noted. 03:07:51 @tell boily the haskell weekly news only has a single quote. <-- and it's not even from #haskell! 03:07:51 Consider it noted. 03:08:38 @tell boily well, I assume. i'd be shocked if knuth showed up there. 03:08:38 Consider it noted. 03:09:04 06:30:59 @remember knuth To help the reader drowning in a sea of abstraction, the following example may serve as a concrete life preserver 03:09:08 checkmate 03:09:56 knuth, noted computational gangster (frankenstein computer god) 03:09:59 it occurs me that making sea life preservers out of concrete isn't a very good idea. 03:10:34 depends on what kind of sea life you want to preserve 03:10:59 true. i guess if you want to feed the sharks... 03:11:00 i bet osedax would be happy to have somewhere to root, insofar as they can feel happiness 03:11:43 I don't think a life preserver out of concrete would be good to feed the sharks or whatever else either 03:12:55 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:13:51 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:21:49 wait roujo is here, is that my fault? 03:21:51 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:21:57 (hi!) 03:27:11 wait, are we starting to have eerily many quebecois in the channel 03:32:00 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:32:47 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:44:25 @tell fizzie Please ^save fungot, i fixed a bug in ^prefixes 03:44:25 Consider it noted. 03:44:25 oerjan: it had all sorts of problems 03:44:40 fungot: oh it wasn't that bad, just a missing space 03:44:40 oerjan: http://www.randsinrepose.com/ archives/ fnord/ fnord/ 06/ fnord 03:44:52 ^style 03:44:52 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 03:50:10 java bot :'( <-- wat, jconn is J! 03:50:29 oerjan: click the link :P 03:50:51 oh roujo's 03:52:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:53:49 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:53:50 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 03:53:50 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:55:46 `? ursula 03:55:48 ursula? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 03:55:48 | 03:55:49 º¯`\o 03:55:56 `? ursala 03:55:58 ursala ~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 03:56:17 ok 03:56:32 `run sed -i 's/[^ ]* //' wisdom/ursala 03:56:35 No output. 03:56:37 `? ursala 03:56:39 ​~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J,^|J/~& ~&rt!=+ ^= ~&s+ ~&H(-+.|=&lrr;,|=&lrl;,|=≪+-, ~&rgg&& ~&irtPFXlrjrXPS; ~&lrK2tkZ2g&& ~&llrSL2rDrlPrrPljXSPTSL)+-, 03:57:14 so, wh 03:57:19 maybe we should just remove `learn if people keep using it wrong. 03:58:31 also i think there was another broken one recently but i've forgotten which one. 03:58:33 oerjan: Instead of removing it, require the first character of the argument to be ^O. 03:58:45 That way only people who ""know the trick"" can use it. 03:58:52 today I learned something very strange.  If I take coin from a uniform distribution of biased coins and flip it 3 times, 1/4th of the time it will come up with 3 heads 03:59:01 ¬_¬ 03:59:29 doesthiswork: erm... 03:59:34 doesthiswork: as in the distribution of the bias is uniform? 04:00:28 ouch, i think that may require a triple integral or something 04:00:37 no wait 04:01:21 ok if p is the probability of heads then p^3 is the probability of 3 heads 04:02:14 so \int_0^1 p^3 dp = p^4/4 |_0^1 = 1/4, yep 04:02:47 it generallized to n flips 04:03:07 1/(n+1), then 04:03:07 the probability of any given number of heads is 1/(n+1) 04:03:14 yeah, that works with oerjan's fine. 04:03:17 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:04:01 -!- kallisti has joined. 04:04:01 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 04:04:01 -!- kallisti has joined. 04:06:00 guess what the probability of 7 heads in 17 flips of a coin drawn from my collection 04:06:05 is 04:07:08 hi 04:07:12 eleven 04:07:19 balls 04:07:31 i like how people started welcoming Roujo just after he said he was off 04:07:42 1/18 04:08:07 'welcome roujo 04:08:30 doesthiswork: wait, don't you mean 17 heads hth 04:08:42 it's just \int_0^1 p^7(1-p)^10 dp right 04:08:51 or wait, is it _any_ single number, huh 04:08:54 the number of heads doesn't matter, the probability is the same 04:09:02 that is what surprised me 04:09:15 huh 04:09:55 except p^n(1-p)^(k-n) is harder to integrate in your head 04:09:55 what's so surprising about it, imo 04:10:14 mnoqy: I'm way too used to fair coins 04:10:30 oerjan: well it's pretty easy to see that it's going to be 0 for p=0 i think? 04:10:42 mnoqy: imo what was that thing you were saying about comma categories ages ago 04:10:54 shachaf: just look up comma categories 04:11:02 Bike: we need the difference between 0 and 1 04:11:15 shachaf: alt. look up whatever else you want to know about 04:11:17 yes 04:11:22 mnoqy: yes, i just read about them. but why were you talking about them once 04:12:20 my memory is failing me :'( 04:12:22 shachaf: because the formulation of free objects [and other things] i knew at the time was all about a comma instead of adjunction 04:12:39 but the formulation in terms of adjunction is much nicer 04:12:51 oh, right, free objects 04:12:59 aren't adjunctions great though 04:13:07 yes 04:13:14 but i should understand the comma categories thing 04:13:50 you know how limits are adjoint to diagonal functors? p. great 04:13:58 yes 04:14:21 http://nlab.mathforge.org/nlab/show/comma+category comma categroy is pretty easy 04:15:10 yes 04:15:11 i "got to go" now though "have fun" 04:15:42 "bye mnoqy" 04:16:48 wolfram says the integral involves hypergeometry. maybe it is not right 04:26:42 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:27:21 well you can do it with binomials obviously but what a mess 04:28:13 p^k(1-p)^(n-k) = p^k + (n-k over 2)p^(k+1) + ... + p^n 04:29:27 1/(k+1) + (n-k over 2)/(k+2) + ... + 1/(n+1) 04:29:41 is the integral 04:30:22 and then you just have to show that's 1/(n-k+1) hth 04:30:34 (my brain cannot do that right now) 04:30:41 er 04:30:49 *1/(n+1) 04:31:09 wait how can that be right 04:31:32 there's already a 1/(n+1) _before_ you add the rest 04:31:46 * oerjan probably messed up somewhere 04:34:14 oh wait no, it's bike's fault >:) 04:35:10 p^7(1-p)^10 isn't correct, you have to multiply by the number of possible orderings 04:35:42 still a mess though. 04:43:52 "In reality, cats do possess the ability to turn themselves right side up in mid-air if they should fall upside-down [...] Toast, however, lacks both the ability and the desire to right itself." wikipedia has some of the most amazing quotes 04:44:11 yes 04:44:30 i doubt they actually tested the toast's desire scientifically. there might be a hidden tragedy here. 04:44:56 see: intelligent calcium. 04:51:20 Maybe I can get oerjan to do it. <-- not a chance hth 04:52:16 oerjan: not even a chance equal to.........0? 04:53:06 shachaf: let's not go into quantum teleportation territory here twnh 05:01:20 Apparently it's a French word meaning "crooked waters". <-- ok-dokey 05:06:09 oerjan: so multiply by n!? 05:07:10 oh wait, no. wow i'm bad imo 05:07:31 oerjan: as in https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.518647,-115.058205&spn=0.006668,0.016512 ? 05:17:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:17:59 Bike: no, (n over k) 05:18:12 right 05:19:02 shachaf: nixon creek, sounds ominous 05:19:45 hm, integral still looks nasty. 05:21:15 presumably there's some trick. 05:21:38 or more intuitive argument 05:26:02 doesthiswork has abandoned us. we will never know the trick. 05:34:15 shocking 05:48:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:49:13 "I was attempting to convince someone that one of the appendices to Lord of the Rings just consists of Saruman attempting to teach LISP to the dwarves." 05:54:12 ok somebody needs to help me understand this formula because it's bullshit 05:56:18 say f is a function in a field extension with minimal polynomial p(f) = sum of r_n*f^n from n=0 in whatever field. then f' = (sum of r_n'*f^n from n=0)/(sum of n*f^(n-1) from n=1) 05:56:42 and those ^ are multiplication. srry elliott 06:04:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetic_derivative fucking christ i'm doomed. 06:08:57 oerjan: I didn't remember getting a public response at all to that command, so I thought it didn't work, but then you responded instead 06:13:04 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:13:57 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:15:44 good news i did some algebra that makes no sense and derived this somehow. fuck everything 06:16:22 that's how algebra works Bike............. 06:17:36 no i mean i kind of went "what if i pretended that *five minutes of staring blankly at a wall in sleepy incomprehension* and then did algebra". i don't even know what the nonsensical pretendingness was 06:21:30 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 06:45:37 ok when i wake up give me an example of an uncomputable continuous function. thx 06:51:01 I think you can make one if you have an integrable uncomputable function. 06:53:20 ^save 06:53:21 OK. 06:53:35 oerjan: REQUEST ACKNOWLEDGED 06:54:20 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:08:31 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:09:01 yay! 07:29:44 oerjan: when are you scheduling the next `olist update 07:30:02 it's been since sunday or something 07:31:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:32:00 shachaf: later hth 07:32:32 i was hoping for sooner than that 07:44:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:53:03 Is IOCCC open now? 07:54:34 yes. 07:57:11 Why does the number of entries have a decimal point in it? 08:04:35 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:05:40 -!- oerjan has set topic: Life's just a mood ring we're not allowed to see | 22nd IOCCC is open: http://ioccc.org/2013/rules.txt | jsvine is doing an esolang survey! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 08:10:38 Compare the IOCCC rules with Z-Comp rules. Some people say the Z-Comp rules are really convoluted. What is your opinion? 08:11:45 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 08:19:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:23:36 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:24:39 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 08:25:10 IOCRC: The International Obfuscated Contest Rules Contest. 08:29:56 Are you going to make that too? 08:33:44 No. But it is logical. 08:56:54 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 08:58:08 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:58:40 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:11:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:51:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:15:22 Is consciousness like the roundness of a sphere? 10:24:10 Although this sentence begins with the word "because", it is false. -- Douglas R Hofstadter 10:25:53 If the meanings of "true" and "false" were switched, then this sentence would not be false. 10:37:36 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 10:45:52 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 10:46:50 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:50:07 I took this photo from the thing yesterday: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130802-assembly.jpg 10:52:47 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 10:53:23 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:04:07 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 11:05:10 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:06:48 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 11:07:27 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:23:23 Oh, fizzie was at ASM? 11:28:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:29:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:30:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:32:39 Lumpio-: Yes; just about to go back there. 11:32:48 Neat 11:33:01 Wonder if anyone else from here is 11:34:48 I've been blabbing about the event yesterday, and at least no-one admitted anything. 11:35:32 mm 11:35:52 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 11:36:17 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:37:24 Welp, time to hop on a bike (not Bike). -> 11:38:47 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 11:39:02 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:42:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 11:42:23 -!- MBEFDC has joined. 11:42:26 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b MBEFDC!*@*. 11:42:37 -!- MBEFDC has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:42:41 (obviously a bot, IP doesn't match anyone in the channel, doesn't appear to do anything, can't keep its connection.) 11:42:54 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 11:43:03 What a crappy bot 11:45:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:00:46 -!- katla has joined. 12:08:01 -!- katla has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:12:25 peter capaldi is the favourite for the 12th doctor 12:12:55 words fail me for some reason 12:13:58 isn't that guy- 12:14:05 he's malcolm tucker 12:14:12 right okay 12:14:24 um 12:14:24 he also played someone in local hero apparently but i haven't seen that film in ages 12:14:25 are you sure 12:14:42 well he's 'the favourite', with all the pinches of salt the term implies 12:16:16 i'm not sure if there's any better evidence than the fevered imaginings of the autistic children bookies use to set the odds for things 12:20:21 "Billie Piper, former Doctor’s assistant Rose Tyler, is the only woman listed by Paddy Power to take on the title role after it was rumoured earlier this week that an actress might be in the running." 12:20:27 these predictions do not seem credible 12:20:40 yeah 12:21:09 i mean if davies was still running then maybe 12:21:18 -!- yorick has joined. 12:22:23 nice to know the most likely way they'll shake up the expectations for the doctor is... casting an old white guy 12:35:15 -!- sacje has joined. 12:41:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:54:27 -!- boily has joined. 12:54:40 good orange morning! 12:55:01 Good orange juice. 12:56:54 we have experimental proof at our office that bananas are radioactive. we have this fruit delivery service, and the half-life of bananas is less than 200 kiloseconds. 12:59:33 boily: What do they decay to? 13:00:27 oranges. 13:00:56 I think there are also some pear by-products, but observations are scarce and not experimentally supported. 13:00:59 Possibly you could derive some sort of banana-orange dating system out of it. 13:01:25 my colleagues are working on that. (no joke) 13:01:29 what happens if you have a pear of bananas? 13:01:32 how do you account for that? 13:02:11 Yay, a SIGGRAPH conference presentation. 13:02:41 (There's some former-Remedy current-NVidia-research guy.) 13:04:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:04:34 Fiora: we'll discuss this subject in a future paper. 13:04:40 fizzie: still assembling? 13:04:44 Yes. 13:04:51 boily: I posted a photo. 13:05:12 I told my parent's that I met a fellow Montrealer on IRC 13:05:18 They asked what the channel topic was 13:05:19 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:05:28 boily: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130802-assembly.jpg 13:05:44 I then had the hardest time explaining the point of making esoteric languages 13:05:45 =P 13:05:55 (I have a feeling this presentation is going to be perhaps dumbed-down for the audience.) 13:06:03 "But why don't they just use Java or C++?" 13:06:15 -!- sacje has joined. 13:06:28 fizzie: oh, shiny! 13:07:30 boily: And think, every tiny point of light is a real, breathing human (hunched in front of a monitor). 13:07:59 (So far this presentation is just talking about what research is in general.) 13:08:02 not quite. there are also finns 13:08:04 that looks huge and scary 13:08:34 Roujo: I work for a free software company. my parents are used to me doing weird stuff to computers and electronic parts :D 13:09:05 Well, so are mine =P 13:09:10 My father found it interesting 13:09:17 boily: where do you work? 13:09:56 elliott: http://www.savoirfairelinux.com// 13:11:06 My mother was confused as to why one would try make their life harder on purpose =P 13:11:13 "Because they can" was my answer, really 13:11:32 "For fun, for the challenge" 13:12:01 and for outdoing others at bfjoust. 13:12:21 To be fair, I should have went with Shakespear of Chef, not Brainfuck and Malbolge 13:12:28 Roujo: "Because it was there" is the traditional why-climb-a-mountain answer. 13:12:30 That too =P 13:12:32 boily: cool 13:12:37 What could possibly go wrong? http://youtu.be/lMuJKsUjD_o 13:14:02 What 13:14:05 Is that even possible? 13:18:15 ion: wow 13:28:07 Judgement for paper 1: fancy. 13:30:05 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:30:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:30:18 elliott: Say I'd want to make an IRC bot in a language that you actually approve of. What would you suggest? 13:30:47 um... Haskell is my go-to language for most things 13:30:50 @botsnack 13:30:50 :) 13:32:15 Roujo: mine's in haskell. 13:32:55 elliott: do you approve of bots written in esolangs? 13:33:10 yes! 13:35:21 say, do we have a coffeescript bot here? 13:36:20 Paper 2: also fancy. 13:50:56 I also heard there was a "Cory Doctorow petting zoo" downstairs after his talk. 13:51:20 Don't know what that is like. 13:53:01 because no one wants to see cory doctorow give a talk? 13:53:57 I understand there was a reasonable audience. 13:54:25 From the lityle I heard, corruption in the government. 13:55:00 where are the papers you are judging 13:56:15 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:56:58 A sec. 13:57:44 https://mediatech.aalto.fi/publications/graphics/GMLT/ 13:58:10 https://mediatech.aalto.fi/publications/graphics/FourierSVBRDF/ 13:58:26 It was a two-in-one presentation. 13:59:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:59:20 ah 13:59:29 where are you? 14:00:19 http://www.assembly.org/summer13/ 14:01:27 (There's a set of seminars on various topics, presumably to offset all that gaming.) 14:01:54 whooooa a livestream 14:04:19 They have a separate channel for the seminars. 14:04:38 Not sure if there's anything interesting coming up. 14:05:28 The main themes are graphics/game-related programmering and game0development businessy things. 14:05:55 (Maybe most the business talks were yesterday.) 14:08:43 And this fast music competition (as usual) kind of has too many entries. 14:08:58 They're in like #19 now. 14:09:24 I've forgotten 80% of these before I can get to the voting page. 14:13:44 -!- sacje has joined. 14:19:51 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:45:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:47:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:48:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:52:22 Is assembly considered an esoteric language? =P 14:52:42 Because I did make a virtual CPU that can run opcodes that kind of look like assembly 14:53:41 Then again, I implemented *that* in Java 14:55:26 There are some esolangs that are designed to look like weird hardware architectures. 14:55:27 Check out Checkout 14:55:41 * Roujo blinks 14:55:50 And, uh... jump to ByteByteJump, or whatever it was called. 14:57:01 risk your sanity on OISC. 14:57:02 I'm not sur if assembly is esoteric but it's fun! 14:57:15 (And BytePusher, which is the machine around ByteByteJump.) 15:01:49 *sure 15:02:41 ~duck sur 15:02:42 There certainly seems to be some overlap between esolangers and... assemblers... er, that's not the term. 15:02:51 Surströmming. 15:02:57 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:03:06 the thing I can't seem to find in Montréal. 15:03:08 ~duck sur 15:03:09 sur- definition: over. 15:03:25 Fiora's not over assembly. 15:03:26 ~duck surströmming 15:03:26 --- No relevant information 15:03:33 ~duck fermented fish 15:03:33 Fermented fish is a traditional preparation of fish. 15:03:45 (And ducks don't eat fermented fish.) 15:04:04 ~duck roujo 15:04:05 --- No relevant information 15:05:00 I am not a duck, unfortunately 15:05:02 I am the Gate 15:05:03 I am the Key 15:05:16 fizzie: um, what constitutes being over it 15:06:18 is there any hexhamite logged on? I wonder if two canadians meeting IRL will cause the same kind of apocalypse as two hexhamers joining? 15:06:40 Fiora: Being "sur". 15:06:44 "sur"? 15:06:48 sur. 15:06:50 oh. 15:06:51 Sûr 15:06:55 Fiora: See above. 15:06:56 elliott is from hexham I think 15:07:01 sorry, it was just a typo 15:07:17 Fiora: No, it definitely had some deeper meaning. 15:07:42 `? sur 15:07:45 sur? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:07:45 | 15:07:46 o/`¯º 15:08:02 `? `? 15:08:04 See `? for further details. 15:08:06 Awww 15:08:22 Do take that one level deeper. 15:08:24 boily: I would have to disadvise the meeting based on my measurements and predictions 15:08:30 but I suspect it would not destroy the entire earth 15:08:37 Barely 15:08:46 boily: Do you play Ingress by any chance? 15:12:53 what's ingress? 15:13:10 Bah, why doesn't this thing do 5 GHz wiffery. 15:13:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:14:33 I was supposed to get my Ouya Wednesday, but UPS screwed up, and it very probably got stolen. 15:14:41 now I have to wait for Amazon to send me a replacement. 15:15:11 boily: "Oh yeah?" 15:16:20 What did they put in the Ouya? Some Tegra thing? 15:16:22 I phoned them twice, and if I still haven't got anything by next Friday, then I'll have a new one. (delivered to the office. not getting fooled twice over this.) 15:16:32 a very shiny tegra 3. 15:16:53 next model will have a tegra 4, but it's not confirmed and there is some speculation that they may even upgrade to a 5. 15:16:53 How do the shiny Tegra 3 and a matte Tegra 3 differ? 15:17:10 There's a Tegra 3 in this tablet, but I think it's a bit duller. 15:17:13 it is more feng shui. 15:18:28 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:19:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:31:10 This (Bluetooth mini-)keyboard turns itself off when one closes the cover... and apparently also when the cover is too near even if not closed. (Instructions warn against keeping it close to the keyboard.) 15:31:28 Makes me wonder what kind of a magic it uses to sense the cover nearby. 15:32:47 assymetrical warp matrix, but newer models use and inverted quantum variance. 15:33:03 s/and/an/ 15:33:18 "ic" 15:33:39 (gotta love online technobabble generators :D) 15:57:11 `olist (907) 15:57:13 olist (907): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 16:06:03 hmm I got a false highlight in another channel because someone's shortened URL happened to contain "kmc" 16:06:06 wonder why that hasn't happened before 16:08:16 -!- iamfishhead has joined. 16:12:55 -!- john_metcalf has joined. 16:13:20 Waiting for train... 16:13:44 just train in general? 16:13:45 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:14:46 No. A specific train. It's running 6 minutes late :-( 16:15:26 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:19:24 In Cambridge. Visited The Centre for Computing History today... 16:19:45 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:21:00 was it train 16:21:09 I am utterly confused, unbound is returned NXDOMAIN for everything on my RPi. The local unbound on my desktop works just fine. 16:21:11 With everything I mean EVERYTHING, including the root servers 16:21:18 Speaking to me? 16:21:37 hacked by chinese 16:21:42 Possibly 16:22:28 I switched it over to 8.8.8.8 for now while figuring this out 16:24:56 It seems to report everything in the cache though...? 16:25:05 when I ask it to dump the cache I mean 16:25:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:25:13 hi oerjan 16:25:18 hmm I got a false highlight in another channel because someone's shortened URL happened to contain "kmc" wonder why that hasn't happened before // because 26^3 = 17576 16:25:24 there's an `olist at the end of the logs hth 16:25:42 hi shachaf 16:25:58 i already found it 16:26:39 -!- Ocqueoc has changed nick to tswett. 16:27:30 Gregor: but I see like a hundred shortened URLs per day 16:27:47 Gregor, probably more, digits tends to be common in URL shortening too 16:28:40 Vorpal: Yeah, this was in the most optimistic assumption. 16:29:20 What the fuck, "dig" returns the IP for example.com from the local unbound but "host" returns NXDOMAIN 16:29:24 this is making no sense 16:30:54 `addquote well he's 'the favourite', with all the pinches of salt the term implies i'm not sure if there's any better evidence than the fevered imaginings of the autistic children bookies use to set the odds for things 16:30:57 1080) well he's 'the favourite', with all the pinches of salt the term implies i'm not sure if there's any better evidence than the fevered imaginings of the autistic children bookies use to set the odds for things 16:34:40 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:35:39 An example program that demonstrates how to create commits using Git plumbing https://github.com/ion1/git-plumbing-create-commit 16:38:28 Roujo: "Because it was there" is the traditional why-climb-a-mountain answer. <-- the original guy _did_ die on mount everest hth 16:38:59 And now it randomly started working again 16:39:01 WHAT? 16:40:11 seeing mallory's corpse is p. weird 16:45:17 Vorpal: I have a vague feeling that "dig" is explicitly DNS-only, while "host" might follow the general name-resolution rules. 16:45:56 Vorpal: I mean, as a general comment on how they might differ; of course if you've only got DNS configured... 16:46:41 -!- jsvine has joined. 16:50:11 oerjan: Well crap =P 16:50:30 Did anyone die programming in an esoteric language? 16:50:40 Better yet, does going insane count? 16:51:02 There are certainly dead esoteric language programmers. 16:51:31 The causal relationship is not entirely clear, because there are also dead people that were not esolangers. 16:52:26 I think most dead people were esolangers 16:52:38 At one point or another, anyway 16:52:59 For a very vague and large definition of esolang 16:54:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 16:56:51 is Roujo Taneb 16:57:04 I don't think so 16:57:25 I think I am, yeah 16:57:42 Remember that one time, at college? The mirror thing? 16:57:43 Yeah 16:58:02 Jonathan, Nathan, it's all the same anyway 16:59:23 Co-Nathan. 17:00:06 Exactly 17:00:12 It's like a co-processor 17:00:14 Only Nathan 17:02:01 I think you'll find it's the dual of Nathan 17:02:23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/MyosinUnrootedTree.jpg help 17:02:32 And a 80387 is a dual of 80386. 17:05:31 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:06:51 80387 is also cop̈rime to 80386. 17:07:09 That's logical. 17:07:40 hey, it really is, nice. 17:08:17 Oh, so it seems. I thought i was talking out of my ass. 17:08:19 n+1 is usually coprime to n isn't it? 17:08:36 n+1 is always coprime to n 17:08:42 ok 17:08:44 For n >= 2 17:09:31 Oh, 80387 is also just plain prime. 17:10:06 For all n, I think 17:10:30 I concur: 80387 is prime for all n. 17:10:50 * Bike nods 17:11:20 exists m. 80387 is a prime 17:11:41 Vorpal: I have a vague feeling that "dig" is explicitly DNS-only, while "host" might follow the general name-resolution rules. 17:11:41 Vorpal: I mean, as a general comment on how they might differ; of course if you've only got DNS configured... 17:11:43 hm? 17:11:56 What other than dns and the host file is there? 17:12:06 nsswitch 17:12:13 Vorpal: NIS. 17:12:25 fizzie, what on earth is NIS? 17:12:25 The default “hosts” line on my system: hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4 17:12:28 Vorpal: LDAP-based host resolution too, I think. 17:12:29 I seen that term before 17:12:34 And i’m not even using NIS/LDAP/something 17:12:38 Network Information Something. 17:13:17 There's also a NIS+, IIRC. 17:13:21 ion, mine just lists localhost for ipv4 and ipv6. Oh and the actual host name as well 17:13:38 vorpal: Not /etc/hosts, the hosts line in nsswitch.conf 17:13:42 oh 17:13:58 Hum 17:14:01 hosts: files dns 17:14:02 yeah 17:14:25 My desktop has this though: 17:14:27 hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4 17:14:32 Strange 17:14:41 Multicast DNS, presumably. 17:14:45 mdns is a Good Thing™ especially on desktop computers. 17:15:43 ion, oh? what is it used for? 17:16:07 That’s how your computers see each other by .local without any special setup. 17:16:13 I never used that 17:17:42 There’s a published RFC for it, and OSX and many Linux desktop systems use it by default. Also many peripherals such as HP printers. Microsoft of course doesn’t support it, but Apple provides an implementation for Windows. 17:17:53 Hm 17:19:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:26:02 ion: IMO you're just lazy if you don't have proper DNS for everything that could conceivably have an IP address. 17:26:47 Yes, i’m lazy and proud of it. I don’t want to do extra work for something i can get for free. 17:27:00 Laaazyyy. 17:27:07 ↑ 17:27:15 ion: imo ☝ 17:27:36 My DNS server doesn’t really need to know or care about the hosts i happen to have in my internal network. 17:28:26 They can inform each other about their hostnames just fine. 17:29:35 Just "install this extra blob into your Windows" "and what about this appliance with no firmware upgrades" fine. 17:30:10 Also you're depriving your DNS server of its entire reason for existence hth 17:36:56 &'static [&'static str] // what a beautiful type 17:37:18 shachaf: I think Rust should use Unicode superscript characters for lifetimes 17:38:19 Oooooh, someone with voice =3 17:38:20 ion, Not really useful for me I think 17:38:30 kmc: who needs q anyway 17:38:51 mnoqy 17:39:06 And qelliott. 17:39:15 mnoqy doesn't need to be superscripted 17:43:10 Huh. An ad for the PadfoneInfinity on the big screen. 17:43:21 Guess those sponsors have their demands. 17:45:16 fizzie, what is that? 17:45:38 It's some Asus dockable phone thing. 17:45:42 Ah 17:45:50 Tablet, and a phone that slots in it. 17:45:55 Or that's what it looked like anyway. 17:46:24 Heh, should be three steps, with a so called "phablet" as a middle step 17:48:40 Apparently, for technical accuracy: Padfone Infinity is the phone, and you slot it into a Padfone Infinity Station, which is completely optional. 17:48:46 Also the cheesiest Asus laptop ad ever. 17:48:59 "We sent you this device back in time so you can save the world." 17:49:37 What 17:49:49 >implying the phone is from the future 17:49:58 Well 17:49:59 Roujo: The laptop (another ad). 17:50:00 Technically 17:50:07 I understand that, it was just a "what" of disbelief 17:50:09 Every phone that's not released yet is IN the future 17:50:21 I think it was an ad for a released laptop. 17:50:21 So when it's actually released, it's probably FROM the future 17:50:48 Well, in that sense everything (that has not existed since the beginning of time) is from the future. 17:50:55 Pretty much 17:51:04 Well 17:51:08 Then are we from the future? 17:51:14 Heh, the Infinity Station has a 1080p 10.1" screen, while the phone side has a... 1080p screen too, except it's 5". 17:51:50 I once asked someone to pronounce 1080 Ps 17:51:58 He didn't get it, unfortunately 17:52:49 For some reason it's always "ten-eighty" and not "one-thousand-eighty". 17:52:58 (Well, okay, the "some reason" is quite clear.) 17:53:28 In French it's not 17:53:45 Which is a bit of a shame, really 17:54:01 I'm rooting for 10.8 hundred p 17:54:53 ...French. Aren't you the guys with the four-times-twenty stuff? 17:55:12 And/or some assorted irregularities. 17:55:17 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:55:24 (I did German in school, I've just heard of it.) 17:55:47 -!- kallisti has joined. 17:55:47 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 17:55:47 -!- kallisti has joined. 17:56:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:57:56 Bike: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/01/future-https-wikimedia-projects/ 17:59:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:02:41 ok? 18:04:00 -!- conehead has joined. 18:05:16 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:05:59 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:05:59 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:05:59 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:10:25 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:12:30 fizzie: yes, we have «quatre-vingts» for 80. perfectly logical. 18:14:09 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:14:09 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 18:14:09 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:14:43 Someone said, to one person, God looks like a human; to another person, God looks like a flower; etc. What is your opinion about this? 18:15:04 that humans have more proteins than flowers. 18:15:41 OK, but I don't think that has anything to do with it. 18:17:35 boily: But it wasn't a 20-based system for 40 or something like that, right? 18:17:49 are you sure? flowers are pretty protein-tastic 18:18:15 "IΔ0, arithmetic with induction on Δ0-predicates without any axiom asserting that exponentiation is total" hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 18:18:40 if you add such an axiom the proof-theoretic ordinal is a power higher, gosh! 18:18:57 Bike: I linked you that thing right. 18:19:15 Um maybe 18:19:21 the thing thing. 18:19:26 turns out i'm "bad at reverse mathematics" 18:19:45 If you mean "warning" then yes that's why I mentioned that arithmetic here. 18:20:09 i don't know how i got to this. i was looking at differential algebra a second ago 18:20:22 "MLM, an extension of Martin-Löf type theory by one Mahlo-universe, has an even larger proof theoretic ordinal ψΩ1(ΩM + ω)." imo this field is too greek 18:20:23 do you need a hug Bike 18:20:30 probably 18:20:34 fizzie: it's vigesimal for 60, 70, 80, 90 in metropolitan and Québec French, but decimal for everything in Swiss and Belgian French. 18:20:37 @hug Bike 18:20:49 boily: "Perfectly logical." 18:21:03 * elliott hugs Bike to distract him from the greek letters, but little does he know that I myself am a long-forgotten member of the greek alphabet 18:21:03 "Most theories capable of describing the power set of the natural numbers have proof theoretic ordinals that are so large that no explicit combinatorial description has yet (as of 2008) been given." nice 18:21:09 oh shit 18:21:15 join us, Bike 18:21:29 i already lost my sister digamma to you ;~; 18:22:01 "A single muscle's multifunctional control potential of body dynamics for postural control and running" wow i bet this hardly has anything to do with ordinals at all 18:24:41 i saw an ad for the new Nokia Lumia phone with a 41 megapixel camera 18:24:52 @ping 18:24:52 pong 18:25:01 @ping oerjan 18:25:01 pong 18:25:07 @poke oerjan 18:25:07 Maybe you meant: vote more 18:25:14 "The reason that reverse mathematics is not carried out using set theory as a base system is that the language of set theory is too expressive." oh no 18:25:22 which is just like....... why 18:25:49 i thought they'd given up on the "megapixel" thing by now 18:25:51 nobody needs that many pixels 18:25:54 yeah me too 18:26:05 just like we gave up on processors having OMG SO MANY GHZ 18:26:07 "In order of increasing strength, these systems are named by the initialisms RCA0, WKL0, ACA0, ATR0, and Π11-CA0." also like, seriously 18:26:10 seriously. 18:26:40 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:26:44 how many of those are also drug names, kmc 18:26:57 how is Π11-CA0 (or well Π^1_1-CA_0) a useful name. it sounds like something spraypainted on a concrete wall in an abandoned military complex 18:27:42 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:28:46 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:29:12 Bike: you should go to Thessaloniki and admire the anti-fascist graffiti 18:29:31 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:29:33 <+kmc> nobody needs that many pixels 18:29:37 They said that about memory 18:29:51 And usb ports 18:29:52 And hats 18:29:53 i dunno if i want to go to greece right now, given the well, fascists. 18:29:57 And yet here we are 18:31:18 Bike: the anti-fascist graffiti will protect you. that's what it's there for 18:31:27 otherwise they wouldn't call it anti-fascist 18:31:27 yes 18:31:41 Bike: erm the fascist regime fell in the 70's or thereabouts hth 18:32:02 have you not heard of golden dawn 18:32:06 @vote more 18:32:06 usage: @vote 18:32:29 have you not heard wondrous quotes like "Not being racist is in Greeks' DNA" 18:33:05 that statement... has its own internal beauty 18:33:07 ...that _is_ a wondrous quote. 18:33:57 do bicycles have dna 18:34:16 Depends on the Bicycle, I'd guess 18:34:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:34:20 And what you did to it beforehand 18:34:41 everyone knows dna cannot produce things with wheels, duh 18:34:50 unless those things are flagella. 18:34:56 kmc: You can do things with the pixels, is I think the official line. I mean, by default (AIUI) it takes a full-resolution image (for non-information-destroying zoom and whatnot), and a five-megapixel picture (for sharing and actual use). 18:34:56 (bikes are not flagella) 18:35:06 true 18:35:16 oerjan: or pill bugs 18:35:21 I think it's mostly a signifier that this is an expensive camera and has good optics etc 18:35:43 oh, that reminds me. ~biology meme~ http://imgur.com/T8cXoyN 18:37:10 fizzie: wait, what is the difference between an image and a picture. 18:37:10 Ongoing seminar on the right: history of web-browser demos. 18:37:16 cutest protein i've seen yet 18:37:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:37:42 elliott: I don't think I wanted to make any difference there. 18:37:48 oh. okay. 18:40:05 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:40:06 Bike, i love that thing 18:40:17 i know very little about it but i love it 18:40:56 it's so utterly ridiculous 18:40:58 -!- kallisti has joined. 18:41:00 I have no idea what's going on and I love it =P 18:41:19 Holy mother of hosts 18:41:30 aiui it's a cellular transportation mechanism which consists of tying a bag of stuff to a set of little cell-sized legs 18:41:44 ~duck aiui 18:41:45 --- No relevant information 18:41:46 well, organelle-sized 18:42:09 ~duck aui 18:42:10 --- No relevant information 18:42:27 as i understand it 18:54:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:55:39 -!- neena has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:00:37 is there any deterministic program that it has been proven that you can't prove that it halts or doesn't halt? (also well specified enough that it can be written down) 19:01:03 With no input? 19:03:07 if it's deterministic, you can deduce any subsequent state, starting from the first one, and progressing until the end. 19:03:13 doesthiswork: if a program halts, you can prove it. thus any prove that you _cannot_ prove it halts is a proof that it doesn't halt. 19:03:19 *proof 19:04:38 *progress 19:05:21 Phantom_Hoover: kinesin 19:05:49 you're right 19:06:04 Yes, it halts if and only if there is a proof that it halts (even if nobody knows what this proof is, because it is too long or whatever), and I have made up a sequent calculus of Turing machine, which might be relevant but I don't know for sure. 19:06:26 oerjan: does that hold with all the subtleties of nonstandard models and independent statements and stuff? 19:06:41 oerjan: as in, if you prove there cannot be a proof that a program halts in ZFC, I don't immediately see that there must be a proof it doesn't halt in ZFC 19:07:16 argh mixing metalevels 19:07:28 "shouldn't you be using hott........" 19:07:58 you can prove that a program halts by running it. So you prove that doesn't work, it doesn't halt 19:08:01 if a program halts in the "intended model" of the natural numbers, then it can be proved to halt in any reasonable logic. 19:08:02 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 19:08:22 I don't think nonstandard models describe Turing machines. 19:08:23 of course "the intended model" is the one without any nonstandard elements. 19:08:57 oerjan: well I think meta-levels inherently get tangled when the question is being unable to prove things :P 19:09:32 elliott: however, zzo38's "it halts if and only if there is a proof that it halts" does have the problem you are thinking of, i think 19:10:56 but i don't think my arguments requires anything more than having the right intended model and a logic which is true for it. 19:11:11 ok 19:13:58 ~metar CYUL 19:13:59 CYUL 021900Z 25017KT 30SM SCT040 BKN240 24/15 A2976 RMK CU4CI3 SLP076 DENSITY ALT 1400FT 19:14:09 yeah i don't think i get it intuitively either 19:14:21 like sure there's no halting recognizer but you can still show a program doesn't halt, what's the deal 19:15:15 Well, actually, I thought of something, maybe in the Turing machine sequent calculus, maybe you can have a nonstandard set of propositions next to the turnstile... 19:15:23 well it's quite easy to imagine showing for(;;); doesn't halt, surely 19:15:30 yeah, obviously 19:15:34 But then it isn't a standard Turing machine. 19:16:25 but like, so any plan you come up with to show an arbitrary program+input halts has to not work for some subset of programs+inputs? 19:16:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:16:58 yes, and moreover you can construct the counterexample easily from the plan 19:17:02 it's super basic but i don't get it. 19:17:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:17:13 right, you just incorporate the recognizer 19:17:22 In this system, a Turing machine that halts is a theorem. If it is deterministic (so there is no way you have any choice what rule to follow or substitutions in the rule), and then you get to a same state as before, then you can know it isn't halting, although you see that from outside of the system, and not all non-halting Turing machines will be like this anyways. 19:20:04 zzo38: basically, any consistent logic for deciding whether a turing machine halts and which is strong enough to contain explicit simulation, will only fail on non-halting machines. 19:20:15 -!- sacje has quit (*.net *.split). 19:20:15 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 19:20:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 19:20:16 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:20:25 (\x. x x x) (\y. y y y) is one example of a program that doesn't halt but never repeats states 19:20:51 ^ul (::^):^ 19:20:51 ...too much stack! 19:21:25 ^ul (aS)aS 19:21:26 (aS) 19:21:49 that was the example i used in my underload minimization section to show :()^ couldn't be trivially decided. 19:22:00 (of course in the end it ended up being fully TC) 19:22:34 ^ul (:aSS):aSS 19:22:34 (:aSS):aSS 19:22:41 haha, ass. 19:22:54 fungot seems to like that one 19:22:54 doesthiswork: et tu!!! 19:23:03 ...Bike hasn't seen underload before? 19:23:28 i have. 19:23:37 but: ass 19:23:38 he hass. 19:23:41 butt ass 19:24:15 O KAY 19:24:40 «This name is used because RCA0 corresponds informally to "computable mathematics". In particular, any set of natural numbers that can be proven to exist in RCA0 is computable, and thus any theorem which implies that noncomputable sets exist is not provable in RCA0[...] The classical theorems provable in RCA0 include: The intermediate value theorem on continuous real functions» v. nice 19:25:22 -!- sacje has joined. 19:25:55 but not «If G is a connected graph with infinitely many vertices such that every vertex has finite degree (that is, each vertex is adjacent to only finitely many other vertices) then G contains an infinitely long simple path, that is, a path with no repeated vertices» so fuck. 19:29:35 oerjan: Ah, yes I suppose you are correct about that logic but even if it is not consistent, then everything is true even false things are true, so "consistent" isn't needed there. But, if it doesn't have explicit simulation then I think it isn't a Turing machine, isn't it? 19:32:24 i should do something else. figure out the complexity class of a nematode. 19:34:36 maybe 19:34:38 are there any edible nematodes? 19:34:50 probably 19:34:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 19:35:09 in that much food has nematodes in it, if nothing else :3 19:36:32 i guess they're pretty small, it'd be like edible alga 19:37:51 «purée de nématode sur craquelins de froment.» maybe there's some money to make out of that. 19:37:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:38:16 people will eat anything if it's labelled as haute cuisine. 19:38:19 everything sounds delicious in french 19:38:37 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019612,00.html 19:40:43 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:41:20 snail eggs: http://www.france-caviar.com/perles-de-france--caviar-d-escargot 19:41:22 wait, what. 19:41:38 is this my lambdabot... 19:41:42 oh 19:41:43 netsplit 19:41:50 IT'S ALIVE 19:42:02 lambdabot is on ipv6! 19:42:10 son of lambda 19:42:30 boily: this is pretty good 19:42:40 Bike: you tasted them? 19:42:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Edible_algae 19:42:47 I laser cut some seaweed once 19:42:52 bite me kmc ;_; 19:42:59 algæs are good. 19:43:04 what 19:43:07 yes i got the plural wrong sorry 19:43:22 requesting pics of kmc biting Bike if and when such an event occurs 19:43:24 oh I didn't notice / care 19:43:29 elliott: :3 19:44:34 boily: Do you know if Teksavvy provides IPv6? 19:44:41 Well, supports? 19:44:57 eeeeh... no idea. 19:45:09 Alright =P 19:45:19 looks like so: http://teksavvy.com/ipv6 19:45:26 WOOT 19:45:36 I thought they would 19:45:44 Since they're, you know, pretty tech-savvy 19:45:51 They host one of Coldfront's IRC servers 19:45:52 bin tiens. 19:46:29 I'm with electronic box at home. I don't know who we are wired with at work, but it's all ipv6. 19:46:31 >we welcome you to join us in our IPv6 on DSL Beta program. 19:46:35 >our IPv6 on DSL Beta program. 19:46:38 >DSL 19:46:40 Well crap 19:58:54 heh, Rust floats have a .approx_eq() method which is hardcoded to an epsilon of 1e-6 19:59:35 ew, imo 20:00:06 "fuck it" 20:00:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:01:08 sounds better than everyone just using == 20:01:16 i was explaining floats to somebody yesterday 20:01:36 yeah if your application is sensitive to the exact epsilon, don't use .approx_eq() imo 20:01:40 they had somehow gotten the impression that .48799912 (the number, not the float) was "illogical" because if you had the same digit twice in a row it had to go on forever 20:01:50 but like... 1e-6 matches pretty well what most people would expect of "approx" 20:01:55 Bike: o_O 20:01:58 Bike: are you sure you were *just* explaining floats here 20:02:06 sounds like you were also explaining the rationals :P 20:02:08 floats and/or maths 20:02:15 yeah i started by explaining math 20:02:21 it was an odd experience because like, what 20:02:36 product of american public school system? 20:02:39 similarly 11 should go on forever, as in the p-adic ...111111 20:02:49 from what i could tell they were extremely confused by how they learned long division in school, yeah 20:03:03 pretty sure i got them past that though, and on to "what the fuck are floats" 20:03:11 I have no idea how to do long division 20:03:14 floats are the worst is what they are 20:03:15 am I missing out? 20:03:19 is this person a programmer? 20:03:24 yeah 20:03:28 elliott: I didn't understand long division until I learned how to do it with polynomials 20:03:33 same. 20:03:39 really? haha awesome 20:03:42 but now I've forgotten that too, of course 20:04:04 well, it's because taocp is very vehement about it, and polynomials and positional numbers being basically the same 20:04:13 I also forget how to do short division and also every other mental arithmetic thing ever 20:04:21 oh you're a taocp person 20:04:25 thankfully I have invested in a computer to perform these tasks on my behalf 20:04:45 what's a taocp person. am i bad :( 20:06:09 Bike: The Art of Computer Programming. 20:06:36 you're not bad 20:07:57 is there anybody on #esoteric who's bad? 20:08:59 Me, apparently 20:09:20 taocp is just interesting even if knuth's idea of computer programming is often super alien to anything i have ever done with a computer 20:10:18 `? Roujo 20:10:20 Roujo? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:10:20 | 20:10:21 º¯`\o 20:10:26 Because Java =P 20:11:19 `learn Roujo is a Java heretic. He also claims to be Canadian. As per the Hexham treaty, he mustn't meet boily lest the Universe be destroyed. 20:11:22 I knew that. 20:11:50 plus there's cool stuff like the in-depth analysis of the running time of euclid's algorithm 20:11:53 it's "pretty weird" 20:11:57 (but nothing is said about me not meeting him. mwah ah ah.) 20:12:10 does the Hexham treaty only apply to Commonwealth countries? 20:12:30 probably. do we have a member living in Asia or Africa? 20:12:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:12:56 ~duck Hexham treaty 20:12:56 --- No relevant information 20:12:59 Well crap 20:13:05 i thought we had at least one south african 20:13:07 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:13:29 itidus lives in .au or .nz or something 20:13:48 hiato is south african 20:13:59 lifthrasiir is korean 20:14:17 thx stalker 20:14:38 thanks for two new entries :D 20:14:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Euclidean_algorithm_running_time_X_Y.png #blaze it 20:14:50 is this for the esoteric center of mas thing? 20:14:51 *mass 20:15:20 Fiora: yup! 20:15:21 I believe itidus was Victorian? 20:15:37 the center of mass is about a foot to my left, because i am made of depleted uranium 20:15:37 Oh 20:15:39 So that's why 20:15:40 * boily adopts a very Mr. Burns-ish pose 20:15:44 excellent... 20:15:47 The mass and coordinates thing 20:15:48 Rofl 20:15:56 what's the center of mass currently? 20:16:22 not enough points we UNDESTANDABLE COÖRDINATES, YOU UNCOÖPERATIVE MNOKEYS! 20:16:29 s/we/for/ 20:16:31 -!- Guest29797 has joined. 20:16:34 s/for/with/ 20:16:40 damned small words. 20:16:52 oh so that's why boily was asking for my loaction and weight. i never guessed it was for a centroid calculation 20:16:56 shouldn't it be "ekomnsy" 20:17:18 or uh 20:17:19 nonetheless, it is a useless exercise at the moment, as I have been moving north slowly for 4.5 months, so the centroid would be rather erratic 20:17:19 ekmnosy 20:17:34 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:18:03 quintopia: so yeah. can I please get your (probably very approximate) loäction and body weigh? 20:18:26 What's with the trémas? =P 20:18:31 also my weight has dropped around 40lbs. in the last 4.5 months 20:18:32 tradition. 20:18:43 Got it =P 20:19:02 wow way to fuck everything up quintopia 20:19:06 right now i am loacted in newton, ma, and that is a very temporary condition 20:19:07 boily: You should probably just ship biometric chips to all of us 20:19:19 quintopia: are you describing an homotetic transformation in space-time? 20:19:39 i am describing this computer dying and me not knowing the location of the power cable 20:19:43 Roujo: ooooooh! a very elliotty idea! 20:19:58 quintopia: thanks! 20:19:59 Great =) 20:20:01 Bike: that's a pretty graph 20:20:06 Time to take the bus! 20:20:09 STM4EVER 20:20:16 what's STM here 20:20:26 Société de Transport de Montréal 20:20:42 i find that most things having to do with primes are either pretty or infuriating or boring or two of the above 20:20:53 * kmc needs to update his coördinates 20:21:07 can a biometric chip know your weight? 20:21:08 kmc where are you loacted? 20:21:16 kmc: buses and metro. or not. sometimes they exist, sometimes they arrive late, sometimes they crash, sometimes they don't work... it's an adventure! 20:21:20 "This result suffices to show that the number of steps in Euclid's algorithm can never be more than five times the number of its digits (base 10)" just, everything goes crazy 20:21:50 well i guess that's just log actually 20:21:50 well bye 20:21:53 bye 20:23:59 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 20:24:25 ah! another victim^Wexemplary member of our fine community! 20:25:02 "To make this book less expensive, I did all of the typesetting myself, and I refused royalties." 20:25:15 FreeFull: sorry if I ever asked you the The Question before, but it is of utmost importance that you answer it, or we may have to implant cybernetics into your body in a forceful manner. what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 20:26:32 right now I'm at 37.78947,-122.38912 but I sleep at about 37.75009,-122.40922 20:27:03 kmc: ALTITUDE MISSING 20:27:22 http://www.math.psu.edu/simpson/sosoa/promo.html i like how dorky this is 20:27:27 fizzie: no need for that. I'm not planning for ICBMs yet. 20:27:33 promotional material: mentioning it on a mailing list 20:27:39 kmc: in my experience you sleep at ~midnight-1am or so 20:27:41 but that works too 20:27:53 (actually i have no idea when you sleep) 20:29:07 fizzie: My phone says -80 feet MSL which seems... wrong 20:29:19 boily: 0,4,1,5,182 and 482 megaluns 20:29:25 because a) I can see the bay from here, and b) I am not currently underwater 20:29:54 If you can make a game about "Merciful to gibbering mouther and the other monsters" (or another theme, at your option) and it will run in the Z-machine VM (other than version 6), and can complete at least a playable preview (if not the whole game) by the end of September, then please try to enter Z-Comp. 20:29:54 are you sure that the tide isn't really far out 20:30:05 @messages-loud 20:30:06 You don't have any messages 20:30:37 hey shachaf didn't you have a pdf of "Mathematics Made Difficult" 20:30:41 what's a megalun? 20:30:56 i just read "ludicrously over-complicated proofs of the infinitude of primes (e.g., putting a topology on the naturals, etc.)" and am staring at it 20:31:16 kmc: Perhaps you're just so underground, conceptually. 20:31:20 :) 20:31:30 fizzie: my actual elevation is maybe 140 ft MSL 20:31:41 assuming I know what various terms mean, which I might not 20:32:20 Based on the Wikipedia acronym page, that seems to mean 140 feet from the Mars Science Laboratory. 20:32:31 mean sea level, i'm assuming 20:32:47 possibly median sea level??? 20:32:53 mean sea level. ON MARS! 20:33:08 I think someone being on mars might skew the centroid a little bit 20:33:11 but yeah. what's a megalun? 20:33:26 is the mars science laboratory on mars 20:33:31 i feel it might be deceptively named 20:33:36 Fiora: that's why it is of vital importance that I collect all these stats. 20:33:55 Bike: It's the name for the mission Curiosity is doing. 20:33:55 I think it's probably safe to assume everyone is on earth? 20:34:02 Oh, nice. 20:34:04 Bike: I guess you could argue it doesn't have a well-defined location. 20:34:19 I guess space drones are pretty laboritorical 20:35:02 fungot, what is a megalun? 20:35:03 boily: as well as development. i had a collision there are 20:35:27 http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/1stbday/ wow nasa's sight is good 20:35:30 boily: I think it's what you get when you have a million SCSI devices in a chain. 20:35:33 site. look at that background 20:35:42 (They all need a unique LUN (logical unit number).) 20:35:43 boily: Fiora: hate to burst your bubble but I'm actually in Hexham, Alpha Centauri 20:35:51 oh shit. 20:35:59 but but 20:36:03 how am I talking with you!! 20:36:22 well, light is actually way faster than you think it is. 20:36:24 elliott just predicts your messages a few hours in advance 20:36:27 we just slow it down for humans because they're not yet ready. 20:36:30 or however long the distance is 20:36:32 also that. 20:36:46 it's also like that Doctor Who episode. 20:36:52 yeah that one. 20:37:25 are we thinking of the same one here 20:37:29 (valid answers: "yes", "no") 20:37:30 Slow it down for humans because they are not ready? That doesn't make a lot of sense... (unless you mean something slightly different instead) 20:37:37 i've never seen a doctor who episode. 20:38:15 `learn megalun is a chain of a million SCSI devices. FreeFull weighs 482 of them. 20:38:19 I knew that. 20:38:34 @google A Slower Speed of Light 20:38:35 http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/ 20:38:36 Title: A Slower Speed of Light | MIT Game Lab 20:40:10 `pastequote 20:40:11 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found 20:40:13 `pastequotes 20:40:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21998 20:40:40 I'm still trying to figure out how you could measure someone's weight with a bio implant 20:41:00 maybe it correlates with levels of whatever chemicals in the blood 20:41:47 Bike: it's probably the one doctor who episode people who have never seen a doctor who episode are likely to see! 20:41:58 um 20:41:59 blink? 20:42:08 you get 5 points 20:42:11 Fiora: just make the implant weigh, like, a billion kilograms. 20:42:22 and then you can measure the person's weight as a billion kilograms to very high precision. 20:42:27 good solution 20:42:29 neutronium? XD 20:42:32 Fiora: what if you put the implant underneath the foot, and use it as a regular piezoelectric? 20:42:58 that... I guess that could work, wow 20:43:20 the force would vary though. 20:43:57 for example i'd become a good deal "heavier" when doing jumping jacks, as bikes do to stay fit 20:47:19 Bike. you don't even have a foot. 20:47:51 do i not bleed? can i not jack?? 20:48:05 The best way to weight someone is to put them deep into intergalactic space 20:48:08 Then they don't have any weight 20:49:41 Bike: yes 20:49:48 o 20:50:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_claimed_to_be_built_on_seven_hills 20:50:27 Bike: where/what? 20:50:34 yeah 20:51:02 prime numbers? 20:52:04 oh 20:52:52 Bike is a prime number with no foot, who jacks piezoelectrics made of neutronium? I fear I'm having a serious case of sanity slippage... 20:56:31 http://man.he.net/man3/xdr huh 20:57:03 i wonder if anyone uses this other than Sun RPC 20:57:48 oh I interpreted Bike's "can i not jack??" very differently 20:57:50 that makes more sense 20:58:12 kmc: NetCDF. 20:58:32 kmc: Also I think NFS somewhere, and libvirt. 21:05:57 oh libvert really? 21:05:59 elliott: you too 21:06:15 libvirt ate my balls 21:06:23 kmc/Bike looking stronger by the minute 21:06:32 by which I mean, libvirt and virt-manager keep getting into arguments that result in one of them crashing 21:06:34 I recently ran into its use of XDR on somewhere, maybe a stray comment on ##c. 21:06:37 libelliott 21:07:32 gcc -lliott 21:08:52 Remember to compile your code with -Wno-elliott or gcc will be all "you should've used Haskell for this". 21:09:32 is that warning even included in gcc -Larry -Wall 21:11:51 itym @ 21:13:43 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 21:13:58 What's this tune? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvq1mdEtjAA 21:14:09 Does it exist outside of Discworld 2? 21:14:37 Does it exist? 21:15:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:15:21 Do you exist? 21:15:31 imo yes, you're me 21:15:37 Does anything exist? 21:16:54 Mathematics exists. 21:18:22 zzo38 exists. 21:19:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:19:48 Are you sure? 21:20:15 I'm sure. 21:20:20 But am I sure I'm sure? 21:20:22 (No.) 21:20:45 Can i be sure if i don’t exist? 21:21:20 zzo38: I see what you did there. 21:21:36 Mathematics “∃”. 21:22:33 Are you TIRED of dealing with half-assed Unicode support? *black and white video of someone comically fumbling a basket of compatibility characters encoded as CESU-8* 21:23:09 if zzo38 did not exist it would be necessary to invent him 21:23:10 -!- Bike has joined. 21:23:19 Not really. Many things don't need full Unicode support (and some don't need any Unicode support). 21:24:16 I exist! 21:24:25 ion: No, I didn't do that there. That is what *you* did there. 21:25:56 @oeis 1,16,3072 21:25:57 A sequence related to the period T of a simple gravity pendulum for arbitrar... 21:26:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:30:02 A program to convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 may support both CESU-8 and normal UTF-8, for example. Overlong encodings might also be supported. In other applications, there will be other limitations. 21:30:52 For some programs you may even have codes that are outside of the range of Unicode; UTF-8 supports up to 36-bits at least. 21:32:19 in fact CESU-8 or things like it tend to do overlong encoding of U+0000 21:32:31 Why does CESU-8 exist, btw? (Seriously, not an existence joke. :-P) 21:32:38 http://oeis.org/A223068/list i don't like these numbers 21:32:44 ion: I blame Oracle 21:32:55 since Java and MySQL both do the wrong thing 21:33:02 -!- Guest29797 has quit (Changing host). 21:33:02 -!- Guest29797 has joined. 21:33:05 -!- Guest29797 has changed nick to sacje. 21:33:10 kmc: Yes, if you are using a zero-byte as a terminator, then using overlong encoding for that works. VGMCK also uses overlong encoding for trailing spaces (U+0020) too. 21:33:22 Why did they choose such a representation, i wonder? 21:33:47 because long ago, Unicode was supposed to be a 16-bit character set 21:33:54 ion: I suppose that any program converting UTF-8 to UTF-16 will naturally support CESU-8. 21:34:08 Although it ought to support the normal UTF-8 too. 21:34:17 (or UCS was, anyway) 21:34:19 so systems like Java, MySQL, and JavaScript ( :( :( :( ) were built around this assumption 21:34:46 UTF-16 is a hack to retrofit full Unicode 20.1 bit characters onto UCS-2 21:35:11 how about we just communicate with scrolls copied by monks 21:35:16 “Let’s leak the internal representation of text to the programmer, i’m sure everything will be fine.” 21:35:25 ⎛ 21:35:26 :⎜ 21:35:27 ⎝ 21:36:06 Bike: fine as long as I get some more multiocular O's out of this bargain 21:36:20 UTF-8 allows much longer numbers, although they cannot be used with Unicode. (One possible use is if you are making a Glk input recording in UTF-8 format, then you can encode the Glk special key codes, which are 32-bits long.) 21:36:27 good point 21:36:52 remember my limerick 21:37:03 imo we should require at least one multiocular o in all rhymes composed in this channel 21:37:26 :────────────┐ 21:37:28 :─────┤ 21:37:30 └───────( 21:37:38 But there is two kinds of multiocular O isn't it? 21:37:49 What's the other kind? 21:38:05 Isn't there, one kind with seven eyes and one kind with ten eyes, or something like that? 21:38:22 There’s one with “multi” 21:38:22 shachaf: that was an amazing limerick 21:38:25 Well, those are different glyphs for the same letter. 21:38:42 zzo38: I have only seen one multiocular O that predates Unicode, and it had 10 eyes 21:38:50 but the Unicode reference glyph has 7 21:39:03 (Unicode doesn't tell the difference, so if you want to write about seraphims with many eyes by using this alphabet, then you cannot know if you mean they have seven eyes or ten, if you are using Unicode.) 21:39:18 major design flaw 21:39:27 wait i already joked re: this 21:39:28 if I ever find myself in Sergiyev Posad, I will attempt to ask some monks in very broken Russian if they will show me some other multiocular Os 21:39:46 or I could just like look through the online manuscript scans but that's boooooooringc 21:39:55 Who is Sergiyev Posad and why would you find yourself in him? 21:40:02 what were the manuscripts even about 21:40:16 bike: Os mainly. 21:40:33 Bike: jesus 21:40:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:40:49 new testament? 21:41:00 psalms 21:41:12 if only somebody had researched this and put it on the wikipedia article about 2 years ago 21:41:15 "For a generally accessible and less technical introduction to the topic, see Introduction to pendulum (mathematics)." oh boy 21:41:18 kmc: >_> 21:41:32 ok so not jesus 21:41:55 jesus only appears in the sequel 21:42:52 Sequel to what? Psalms? 21:42:54 imo is the sequel even canon 21:43:59 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:45:09 there is a lot of jesus fan fiction 21:45:15 some of it is in the quran 21:45:44 he makes clay pigeons fly 21:45:55 as a young kid 21:46:04 did the book of mormon have jesus fanfic? 21:46:16 think so 21:46:16 oh that reminds me to be angry at fox for their latest bigotness 21:46:18 It is possible some of it is somewhat based on true stories. 21:46:21 Fiora: it's the premise 21:46:53 Fiora: the book of mormon is a solution to the problem of "wait, if jesus only appeared to some eurasians and you can't go to heaven w/o jesusism, americans were fucking boned" 21:47:24 whether "native americans are actually jewish" is a good solution is up for debate. 21:47:53 I don't think they were Jewish, nor is that a solution. 21:48:02 wow ok nobody told me the book of mormon was that exciting 21:48:14 why did some white people in America in the 19th century care whether long dead native americans were in hell or not 21:48:20 it's really dully written i assure you 21:48:21 seems uncharacteristic 21:48:40 kmc: white people have a long and rich history of caring deeply for the feelings of native americans [laugh track] 21:48:55 that's why i don't litter anymore 21:48:58 kmc: because it would be god sending people to hell for arbitrary reasons they couldn't deal with themselves, unlike being gay etc. which isn't arbitrary 21:49:37 (obviously) 21:50:00 what about all the people who lived before jesus 21:50:15 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:50:22 I don't really like the name "Book of Mormon" since "Mormon" is also the name of one of the books it includes. 21:50:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:50:35 weren't there like endless apologetics about the subject of what happened to aristotle and other famous philosophers that the christians revered at the time? 21:50:37 No, see, Jesus changed the rules of being saved. Before Jesus the rules were different. 21:50:40 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:08 then it's really his fault 21:51:46 I don't think you're in the properly ridiculous frame of mind you need to be in to do theology. 21:52:08 if JavaScript is Scheme with C syntax then Rust is Linear ML with C++ syntax (n.b. none of these things is true) 21:52:26 Bike: it's similar to math right? 21:52:38 Yeah, kinda. 21:52:47 "Everything Jesus does is good" is axiomatic, that kinda thing 21:53:01 what about yelling at a tree for no reason 21:53:07 There is a "properly ridiculous frame of mind" you need to be in to do theology? 21:53:44 zzo38: see https://twitter.com/Non_Cunningham 21:55:34 kmc: yeah there's that and the whole business with zipporah and who fuckin knows 21:56:22 don't know this story 21:56:31 zipporah and the inn 21:56:37 it's pretty incomprehensible i recommend it 21:57:26 oh, and as long as i'm mentioning mormons i want to remind anybody who cares that they didn't allow black priests until 1978. just good to keep in mind 21:57:41 Interesting, I can watch 1080p video from my RPi over NFS, but it doesn't keep up streaming over smbfs. 21:58:07 Guess putting the server in the kernel helps quite a bit 21:59:22 Bike: that does not really surprise me 21:59:25 like, at all. 21:59:29 is it meant to 22:00:04 i wouldn't really draw that conclusion 22:00:26 no it was meant to... thing. 22:00:39 er that was to Vorpal 22:01:19 kmc, could be other overheads too yes 22:01:48 I watch 1080p video over HTTP and sshfs sometimes 22:01:56 kmc, from an RPi? 22:01:58 no 22:02:07 well that is the point, low end system 22:02:10 i see 22:02:26 kmc, I have no doubt it would work fine if the server wasn't a RPi 22:03:29 kmc, watching data rates when copying files over either protocol indicates that there is only a small difference when copying to the RPi, but a massive difference when reading from it 22:10:21 fizzie: at some other Assembly you should organize an #esoteric assembly 22:10:29 hey what's the deal with double factorials 22:10:55 that and/or people should just make independent arrangements to be there 22:10:56 olsner: You think anyone'd come? 22:11:19 I'd be there if I ever managed to write or participate in writing a demo 22:12:27 That's not really any sort of requirement. I never manage to get anything done either. (Granted, the place is like six or eight kilometres from here.) 22:13:25 what do you do at a demo party if you're not involved in a demo? 22:14:10 fizzie: I'd come as long as it isn't noisy or big, so in other words I wouldn't 22:14:17 Spectate/vote at the compos, meet people, that sort of thing. 22:14:38 Can you get involved in Z-Comp? 22:14:51 elliott: It's actually been a *lot* less noisy this last decade, after they implemented decibel limits. (It's still noisy.) 22:15:09 my decibel limit is, like, three. 22:15:13 (not actually three) 22:16:43 * Fiora hides with elliott in the quiet not-full-of-people place 22:16:52 There was the "oldskool" (platforms like C64, A500 and so on) event tonight, and as usual, there were really few "proper" entries. 22:16:57 One slideshow-only ad for a new Finnish demoscene-culture-and-computer-stuff magazine, one invtro for a party with a silly name I forgot, one (ZX Spectrum) invtro for Sundown and one kind of minimal entry. 22:17:06 (And then Dekadence had done a reasonable A500 demo, which was the one proper one.) 22:17:22 yeah hah 22:17:25 Ads all over 22:17:34 Sucks you can't vote for just one entry 22:17:41 Must choose a 2nd and a 3rd one... 22:18:21 Invtros are a valid thing to do, though. (Still, they tend to be not all that impressive.) 22:18:22 * Bike considers forcing fiora and elliott to come to event, bringing tarp to cover them with when they get overstimulated 22:18:40 Any for Famicom? 22:19:22 do you have like spacetime tarps 22:19:27 like, tarps that isolate you from the rest of the spacetime around you 22:19:51 That's what regular tarps do. 22:19:57 but they don't block the sound 22:20:02 no they only isolate you from space 22:20:03 I could pad it! 22:20:11 they, like, they still allow timelike paths to cross them >_< 22:20:16 yorick: i'd like to see anyone time travel through one of my tarps 22:20:23 imo impossible. 22:20:47 Bike: I'll just time travel with a rate of 1 second per second and walk through your tarp 22:20:56 fizzie you gotta come outwide 22:20:58 pretty sure this is just Bike's ploy to ask me if I want to ride him when I ask about travel plans 22:21:07 To the oficial assembly meet 22:21:16 he's just trying to kidnap us >_< 22:21:40 Bike kind of sounds like the least scary person you could possibly be kidnapped by, so I'm cool with that 22:21:40 zzo38: Not this year; they removed the "bring your own hardware" option, so the platforms are rather limited because it's only what they have available. (C64, Plus/4, A500, Atari ST, 130xe, MSX1, Speccy and Amstrad CPC6128.) 22:21:53 if i was kidnapping you i'd use a burlap sack, not a tarp! what were you raised in a kidnappingless barn 22:22:02 I guess that's probably true 22:22:10 well, okay, elliott is probably even less scary 22:22:42 fizzie: Ah, OK. If they had "bring your own hardware" option, what computers did some people use? 22:23:04 i'm sure i'm at least two petaelliotts on the fear scale. 22:23:08 unless "scarily cute" counts :p 22:23:15 zzo38: Perhaps there'll be some in the "real wild" category where you can submit a video of basically anything that can be programmed in some sense. 22:23:45 Will you submit the program too? 22:23:52 zzo38: The VIC-20 has been popular outside that list, at least. And some old consoles, like NES and original Game Boy. 22:24:06 zzo38: No, I haven't done anything. 22:24:17 I thought wild compos were commonplace, where you pretty much just provide anything with a suitable video/audio output and can submit it as an entry 22:24:22 I mean, instead of or in addition to the video. 22:24:23 zzo38: Oh, there was one NES song in the music competition. 22:24:41 elliott: btw i don't know if you recall the "route of elliott", from hexham to dili, but i'd like to point out you could take most of it by bicycle. 22:24:41 oh, but they removed it this year? 22:24:49 zzo38: Oh. Yes, preferrably, though I don't think it's required. 22:25:12 Bike: was that the stupid roundabout fucklong one 22:25:16 or just the fucklong one that wasn't that roundabout 22:25:26 what do you mean roundabout 22:25:30 olsner: Wild's still there. They just had a bring-your-own-device option in the "Oldskool demo" category. 22:25:30 the roundabout one involved taking ferries to europe just to get from one point of the UK to another. 22:25:37 it was a beautiful triumph of Google's pathfinding algorithms 22:25:47 If I made it I would require the program, as well as a hardware for it to run on or an emulator which can run it 22:25:47 Lumpio-: Also I'm at home. 22:25:48 elliott: dili's across indonesia so you won't have that problem. 22:25:55 ok right so the other one. 22:26:12 Bike: but it would take, like, at least 24 hours, right? 22:26:21 at least, yes 22:26:27 so what you're saying is I should ride a bike all night long. 22:26:28 do you have to be back for bed time 22:26:33 I see. I see. 22:27:06 it's actually a little over a fortnight. 22:27:07 fug 22:27:14 Is there anything about if the hardware gets damaged by the program? Can this be done using the computers you listed? (I know with the Famicom it is probably possible to damage it if you set the PPU to slave mode, since it will try to output a high signal to pins connected directly to ground; they should have put pull-down resistors there but they didn't (and if I make a hardware clone, I will put resistors there).) 22:27:16 I don't have that kind of stamina, Bike. 22:27:31 "This route includes a ferry." 22:27:50 "This route includes a demo party in Finland." 22:27:57 zzo38: Well, the rules say it must be delivered in executable form "if possible". But sometimes there's things like creative output devices, like that oscilloscope thing, where that doesn't really apply. (I think that one included a video, and then a sound file that made the oscilloscope picture.) 22:28:30 But you might make an emulator of it and/or schematics? 22:29:03 Turn left at Faisal Medical Store 22:29:10 For the oscilloscope then of course a stereo sound file can help, although some lossy codecs are unsuitable. 22:29:30 "Pass by Ahsan Ali -SEO Expert -SEO " see you could use this elliott 22:30:43 I wonder if the route link is in the logs 22:30:45 the raelly long one 22:30:50 the one that went to antarctica and stuff 22:32:31 Lumpio-: I've been progressively less "on board" every year. Back in the 90s I bought the desktop and speakers and slept under the table (before that was forbidden) and did the whole live-in thing; last few years I've been just bringing the laptop and mostly Bike-ing home to sleep; and this year I've just got the tablet and external keyboard, and went home at like 11pm. 22:33:37 sleeping under the table sounds a little unpleasant 22:34:07 elliott: It's also verboten nowadays. Fire risk this and security that. 22:34:24 People did kick you in the head occasionally, there's that. 22:34:37 anyone going to 30C3? 22:35:36 fizzie, oh there is a demo thingy going on now? 22:35:39 They're also much more serious with the checking of baggage on the entrances now that it's a "mainstream" event. 22:35:49 Do the programs ever damage the hardware? (I do not know of any Famicom emulator that will display a warning when the PPU is switched into slave move, although it is a feature I would like to see.) 22:35:57 fizzie: checking it for dangerous things? or for drugz? 22:36:03 kmc: Both. 22:36:10 hmm, so where do people sleep if you can't sleep under the tables? 22:36:20 olsner, on top of them? 22:36:22 kmc: Well, and alcohol; you need to go outside for that. 22:36:29 at Coachella they made people dump out water bottles, I guess because you could sneak booze in, but also so that you would buy overpriced water inside :( 22:36:37 alcohol is a drug 22:36:40 Vorpal: presumably about as verboten as under the tables sleeping 22:36:44 olsner: There's separate sleeping areas in the third floor hallways. 22:36:47 olsner, I guess so yeah 22:37:00 kmc: are you going to 30C3? 22:37:12 olsner: maybe 22:37:17 i haven't made any plans or anything 22:37:19 kmc: so is caffeine technically 22:37:20 but it sounds fun 22:37:21 the web page boasts 22 people attending! 22:37:21 kmc: Don't tell anyone, but people did DRUGZ inside in dark corners back when the event was still at the Congress Centre. 22:37:22 elliott: yes 22:37:27 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:37:42 fizzie: you were there before it was cool 22:37:54 elliott: im doing drugz at work, right now 22:38:11 kmc: recording this in my "in case I ever need to blackmail kmc" file 22:38:14 kmc: It's not really cool yet either, I think the right word is "popular". 22:38:23 2 cool 4 school 22:39:03 zzo38: I haven't heard of any case of that happening, and it's not mentioned in the rules. I guess they'd try to figure out if it was intentional or accidental. 22:39:06 oh nice, somebody leaked the official GBC programming manual. for, some reason 22:39:17 kmc, meaning you don't want to get a proper well paid job after? 22:39:28 Bike: Does it have anything that the unofficial ones don't have? 22:39:41 dunno 22:39:44 it's several hundred pages 22:39:52 fizzie: I would like if an emulator is able to detect these kind of things, though. 22:39:53 Bike, GBC standing for? 22:39:59 gameboy colour? 22:40:12 ayup 22:40:18 Right 22:41:58 "RULES OF ATTRACTION: CATCHING A PEAHEN'S EYE" i was not ready for paper titles 22:42:39 Bike, context? 22:43:05 http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/16/i.1.full about what you'd expect 22:43:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 22:43:29 ooh, a pea-hen! 22:44:07 Bike: you didn't even mention things about fisherians runaways in your into! 22:44:08 intro* 22:44:20 whoa, yorick speaks. 22:44:35 http://llvm.org/docs/ProgrammersManual.html#sentinels ghostly sentinels 22:44:44 my intro to what now 22:44:46 elliott: I never speak 22:44:50 Bike: to the paper thingy 22:45:04 kmc: does rust use llvm for the backend? 22:45:16 Warning 22:45:16 This is always a work in progress. 22:45:17 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 22:45:18 "The model did not find strong support, in part because it is difficult to experimentally test.[citation needed]" irony? 22:45:51 "LIFE AT HIGH pH: MANAGING AMMONIA" #blazeit 22:46:51 -!- Vorpal has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:46:53 Huh 22:47:22 ^ping 22:47:23 That Pong alone cannot stop! 22:47:29 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 22:47:31 Hm 22:47:33 A bit laggy 22:47:39 Vorpal: If you're interested in graphics things, there was a presentation at Assembly describing two (SIGGRAPH) papers from our university that both were at least mildly interesting. 22:47:48 Vorpal: https://mediatech.aalto.fi/publications/graphics/GMLT 22:47:56 Vorpal: https://mediatech.aalto.fi/publications/graphics/FourierSVBRDF 22:48:14 fizzie, hm, the first one looks mildly interesting indeed 22:48:20 (I haven't checked what material they have there, I just saw the talk.) 22:48:28 I have no idea what SVBRDF is 22:49:12 Vorpal: that's what you can capture practically in the frequency domain 22:49:16 The GMLT is a raytracery kind of thing, and the latter is "collect material parameters (for a renderer) from samples without fancy custom hardware". 22:49:16 Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 22:49:27 Bike: um. that doesn't sound very hospitable 22:49:44 Like, diffuse/specular stuff and surface normals and that kind of stuff. 22:49:46 9 is apparently baking soda 22:49:46 is it basic or acidic 22:49:48 olsner, ah 22:49:49 it's basic 22:49:56 hm, i see 22:50:01 well apparently some fish live in that. 22:50:01 bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? 22:50:04 this is like. basic stuff 22:50:08 shut up 22:50:26 (And the non-fancy hardware includes a DSLR and a monitor used as a controllable area light they put patterns on.) 22:50:35 * Fiora knows she has succeeded whenever bike says 'shut up' 22:50:46 succeeded in what 22:50:55 puns 22:52:25 the last time i did pH stuff was high school ;~; 22:53:18 Bike: Was it p. "H"(ot stuff). 22:53:22 every time i visit kmc is like high school 22:53:26 (drugz joke) 22:54:38 does shachaf live in kmc territory? 22:55:04 `quoteadd Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 is it basic or acidic bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? this is like. basic stuff. shut up 22:55:06 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found 22:55:11 agh what's the command again <.< 22:55:17 addquote? 22:55:21 addquote 22:55:26 addquote! 22:55:26 `addquote Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 is it basic or acidic bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? this is like. basic stuff. shut up 22:55:27 _$SP$fn.$x27static$LP$$BP$Window$C$$x20i32$C$$x20i32$C$$x20i32$C$$x20i32$RP$::_e8625186375dbd8e::glue_drop_4727 22:55:29 lolpun 22:55:30 1081) Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 is it basic or acidic bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? this is like. basic stuff. shut up 22:55:30 best function name 22:55:38 kmc: ah, c++ 22:55:43 yorick: Rust actually 22:55:46 that's not c++ mangling 22:55:57 c++ mangling I could undo with c++filt 22:56:03 it might have been :P 22:56:11 there is probably a way to undo this 22:56:12 in fact Rust uses C++ mangling too, this has already been de-mangled once 22:56:20 there is certainly a way in principle, I could write the tool, I may do it 22:56:22 `run sed -i '1081s/ No output. 22:56:26 `quote 1081 22:56:27 1081) Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 is it basic or acidic bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? this is like. basic stuff. shut up 22:56:30 does nm include rust demangling yet 22:56:34 huh 22:56:35 oh 22:56:41 `run sed -i '1081s/ I am bed at sed 22:56:45 1081) Fiora: hey gimme a ballpark here, how hospitable is a pH of 10 is it basic or acidic bike you should know this stuff, you know biology right? this is like. basic stuff. shut up 22:56:46 wave of the future and all 22:56:47 ... 22:56:48 bed at sed 22:56:49 bed at sed 22:57:00 besd ad set 22:57:28 basd af stuh 22:57:31 does rust specify a manglation 22:58:03 it probably does run manglatons 23:00:21 manglatron 23:01:33 we heard you like double frees so we put a call to your destructor in your destructor so you caSegmentation fault 23:01:58 $ bt 23:02:07 yep 23:03:09 hmm, that reminds me, some c++ compilers automatically call destructors when you longjmp 23:04:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:04:38 (others don't ... good luck knowing which one you are) 23:05:05 yikes 23:05:17 set up a destructor to test it 23:05:29 That's not something I'd expect from longjmp... 23:06:18 I have once made up some sokoban compression, which worked well (and Huffman coding it would improve it even more; I calculated how much more), but could a better one be made, so that games that are impossible to solve are not representable (or at least so a lot of them are)? 23:09:56 I know you're not allowed to goto / switch-jump across the construction of a non-POD object 23:10:14 POD? 23:10:22 Plain Old Data 23:10:23 plain old data 23:10:26 Fiora, what C++ programmers call normal C structs 23:10:30 ohhhh. 23:10:33 (and ints and so on) 23:10:49 so you can't jump across the call to a constructor? 23:11:00 Correct, pretty sure it is a compiler error 23:11:44 Fiora, of course it will be possible if that object is no longer in scope 23:11:55 the issue is the cases where it would be in scope 23:14:38 C++ vaguely tries to ensure that if you have a value of type Foo (or &Foo) then it's been properly initialized by Foo's constructor 23:14:45 of course there are many of ways to break this by casting and such 23:14:57 ahhhh, that makes sense 23:15:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:16:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:16:25 iamfishhead: what's the "Y X is best X" thing? 23:21:12 eg "Caltrain is best train"? 23:21:58 eg "cal train is best train"? 23:22:38 fizzie, That metropolis paper is quite interesting indeed 23:23:04 yes, eg that. 23:27:31 good night 23:35:09 'night 23:35:50 ♞ 23:36:26 when I'm pissed off with computers I go and interact with people, and then when I get pissed off about people I go back to interacting with computers 23:36:28 Checkmate! 23:36:29 it all makes sense really 23:36:47 n.b. this is less obvious than it seems because a lot of the interacting with people is done via computers 23:36:51 kmc: what if it's computer people 23:37:01 yes, that 23:37:03 usually is 23:37:32 do bots count as people or computers? 23:37:36 computers 23:38:03 what about interacting with different people 23:38:24 or is it an annoyance with people in general 23:39:01 sometimes either 23:39:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:39:19 -!- iamfishhead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:39:30 with "people in general" i'm often not so much annoyed as exhausted or something 23:39:34 but i don't know 23:40:06 yeah that's true 23:40:16 it's possible to run out of social energy without being in anyway upset or perturbed 23:45:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.