00:12:24 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 00:15:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:16:13 PSP can be connected to a TV screen 00:30:48 the paper proving szemeredi's theorem is six pages long. i don't fucking believe this. 00:32:28 oh, wait, this is just the fuckin proceeding 00:33:27 `slist 00:33:32 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:33:51 Sgeo_: When are you going to `olist? 00:33:58 You can't leave us at a cliffhanger like this! 00:35:39 the real paper, well, that has a flowchart explaining it T_T 00:44:24 I still haven't figured out what slist and olist are 00:44:24 homestuck update, order of the stick update 00:44:24 olist is Order of the Stick updates. 00:44:25 oh. whatevs. 00:44:25 get a regularly scheduled comic, hippies 00:44:26 http://hananomono.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/photo-2.jpg those were dark days, before tex 00:44:26 `smlist (411) 00:44:26 smlist (411): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 00:44:26 "Don't like what I am not interested in"? something along those lines 00:44:27 Bike: yes 00:45:40 Bike: i can't tell whether they wrote "formulas" or "formulae" or "formulæ" with a pen 00:45:40 i gotta know these things :'( 00:51:16 no shachaf 00:51:17 you dont 00:51:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:52:01 mnoqy you just don't understand me 01:05:05 -!- Bike has joined. 01:05:27 shachaf: it's turing's phd, you could probably figure out what soon enough. 01:35:37 I still haven't figured out what slist and olist are 01:35:49 it's a very stupid and very Sgeo story 01:36:02 slist is a homestuck update ping 01:36:42 i would have thought the story would be more shachaf. 01:37:08 wow thanks Bike 01:37:48 what? you're, like, the premier mover and shaker in the thriving list industry 01:39:20 yes but i am underinformed on the shachaf element 01:40:03 all i know is one minute shachaf was fighting a bitter war to get his name off the list and the next he was spearheading the implementation of the new, slick, automated multilist system 01:40:09 `list 01:40:11 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 01:40:30 i love fgrep 02:00:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:05:12 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:07:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:23:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:24 -!- noooodl has joined. 02:41:34 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:50:39 -!- noooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:28:11 What is your ideas relating to philosophy of mathematics? 03:28:41 "them's some crazy shit, alright" 03:29:20 My own belief is that mathematics is the real reality, not universe and physical object and stuff like that. 03:29:37 what does being a real reality entail 03:29:40 My own belief is that my own belief is the real reality. 03:29:55 But I'm starting to think my own belief is biased. 03:29:56 my own belief is that zzo38's belief is the real reality 03:31:28 Bike: O, now you need "metareality" in order to describe that, and then you have to describe that by "metaphilosophy" (which is still philosophy), and then... well, you cannot do that! That is what "God" is! 03:31:50 am i god 03:31:57 well fuck, that clears everything up 03:32:14 If metaphilosophy is still philosophy, don't you get a paradox? 03:33:36 philosophy-in-philosophy 03:33:38 zzo38: hmm, can i have some zzo38 wisdom 03:34:33 shachaf: I don't know. 03:35:19 Philosophy seems to be full of paradoxes anyways; that is why you make up things in order to try to resolve the paradox. 03:35:39 metamasturbation 03:35:47 Hmm. That's pretty good zzo38 wisdom. 03:35:56 what a weird time to coincidentally be talking about philosophy elsewhere 03:36:41 What elsewhere do you talk about philosophy? 03:37:20 Bike: Maybe you should quote zzo38. 03:37:21 a different irc channel. 03:37:55 not metaphysics, though. 03:37:58 imo, 2 old 03:38:45 zzo38: You should get a 7-character nick. 03:39:27 I already have a 7-character nick in my account (although it isn't currently active). 03:39:53 What is it? 03:40:43 It is "zzo38___" (I also have "zzo38__" and "zzo38_") 03:41:09 Which one of those isn't a character? 03:41:15 Is it the first _? 03:41:56 def __zzo38__(self): pass 03:42:37 shachaf: No, the one that isn't a character is the quotation marks and everything outside of them. 03:42:56 > length "zzo38___" 03:42:57 8 03:43:39 "zzo38__" is 7-characters though! 03:43:45 I have all four! 03:43:49 that is true. 03:43:56 i think zzo wins this round, shachaf. 03:44:30 Bike: How many rounds are there? 03:44:41 8 03:45:04 that was round 4. zzo is ahead by one, as one round was a draw. 03:53:34 Max Tegmark has made up "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" and "Computable Universe Hypothesis". I think that the CUH is no good. 03:54:18 no good? 03:56:35 Yes, it is no good. It doesn't have to computable. 03:57:35 What makes you say that? 03:58:05 It doesn't even have to have a single solution, or even any solution at all, or it might have multiple solutions. 03:58:40 what 04:00:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:38:25 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:46:16 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:55:17 It's not obvious to me that the MUH and modal realism are not effectively the same thing. 04:56:13 I have a belief similar to modal realism, and I think mine is more factual and less nebulous: 04:56:42 "There is no particular reason to believe that any possible world is any more or less real than any other." 04:57:07 Well, that's not quite true. I think a simpler world could be considered "more real" than a more complicated one on the grounds that it has a higher probability. 04:58:42 does it now 04:59:38 totes 05:01:56 how 05:06:19 How what? 05:06:55 is simpler more probable 05:07:07 Occam's razor, I guess. 05:07:42 Essentially, the idea that even if you don't know anything about A, B, and C, you have to give "A and B and C" a lower probability estimate than "A". 05:09:04 Why? 05:11:29 Well, if you gave them both the same probability estimate, then, to be consistent, you'd have to give "B and C" a probability estimate of 1, or "A" a probability estimate of 0. 05:11:43 Both of which are undesirable, since you don't know what A, B, and C are. 05:12:06 But what's this have to do with universes? 05:12:16 Presumably picking a universe entails picking B or ¬B anyway. 05:37:37 Maybe you can pick both, somehow. 05:41:37 -!- sacje has joined. 05:53:10 Bike: yeah, good point. 05:53:37 Imagine, though, that if A is true, then B and C are both meaningful, whereas if A is false, then B and C are meaningless, whereas D is meaningful. 05:54:27 and? 05:54:35 If we assume that A, B, C, and D are all just as likely to be true as false, then "~A and D" and "~A and ~D" are more likely than "A and B and C" and "A and ~B and ~C" and so on. 05:55:22 that's a huge assumption. especially given that by hypothesis they're not independent. 05:56:01 besides, what do probabilities even mean here? God rolling dice to see what universes exist? 05:56:17 zzo38: Did you read _Mathematics Made Difficult_? 05:56:27 zzo38: I think you would be good at several of the exercises. 05:56:41 shachaf: I did not read. 05:57:07 zzo38: You should read it! It's great. 05:57:37 It also has a bibliography, which Taneb would surely appreciate. 05:59:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 06:01:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:02:23 -!- Bike has joined. 06:15:59 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 06:27:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:37:00 -!- Wntrvnm has joined. 06:37:15 -!- darkf has joined. 06:38:02 And, since Nisstyre is in here, I'm gonna take that as a, "Yes." :P 06:38:15 hm, works for me 06:38:19 I wanted to make a new esolang 06:38:33 I am too lazy to work it out though 06:42:05 `relcome 06:42:12 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:43:06 sounds eccentric. I love it! 06:44:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:51:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:53:08 Is LoL or DotA 2 easier for newbies? 06:55:20 clearly LoL; how is DotA 2 even a laugh 07:08:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:16:02 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:22:55 @tell Taneb "art is anal pencil sharpenings" hth <-- tdnh, that was the obvious one. 07:22:56 Consider it noted. 07:23:40 not sure if either is a good use of your time, though 07:23:48 LoL is an anti-use of time maybe 07:43:34 -!- carado has joined. 08:16:26 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:17:49 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:33:06 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 08:49:29 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:49:48 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:01:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:33:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:48:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:49:39 -!- Koen__ has joined. 09:49:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:12:47 -!- Yonkie has joined. 10:22:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:07:47 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 11:44:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:00:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:00:34 Hello. 12:15:15 hi 13:25:17 can i be off the list Phantom_Hoover? i only want pings for pbf. 14:06:59 -!- Wntrvnm has left ("-"). 15:09:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:11:52 -!- conehead has joined. 15:39:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:48:00 -!- Bike has joined. 16:02:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:03:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:38:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:45:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:46:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 16:55:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:58:12 *chirp* 16:59:45 Hi oerjan 17:12:34 -!- darkf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:12:39 hi oerjan 17:14:04 hi 17:15:25 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:15:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Client Quit). 17:19:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 17:23:43 Gracenotes, "good use of time"? 17:24:14 They're both games, unless one or the other or both aren't actually fun, I don't see how they can be bad uses of time 17:24:35 eek daystar 17:25:18 * oerjan sics a puritan on Sgeo_ 17:26:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:28:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:33:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:58:47 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:06:39 well, you might increase your skill in the game, necessitating your decrease in other things 18:07:05 like your sense of empathy, or intolerance for toxicity in communities 18:07:07 you never know! 18:15:40 * oerjan sics a non-zero sum game theoretician on Gracenotes 18:16:39 `quote video game theory 18:16:45 424) Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. Nash failed to create a "video game theory" 18:22:26 way to drop the ball, nash. 18:37:21 oerjan: it might not be zero-sum, but the sum might not have massive margins either! 18:39:59 not as massive as those other sums. omai. 18:43:44 this sum is provably at most A(G_64, G_64), although honestly we suspect it's less than 15 hth 18:44:56 hm there should be some sort of competition to pose the question whose answer has the largest known bounds 18:45:00 er, difference between bounds 18:47:38 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 18:47:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:56:17 Kind of disappointed that the Planetside 2 launcher links to a Wikia 18:57:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:57:35 Gracenotes, are both communities really that bad? 18:57:37 can i be off the list Phantom_Hoover? i only want pings for pbf. 18:57:39 what 18:58:05 oh you mean 18:58:08 `list ? 18:58:14 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 18:58:30 that's your own fault for running `list in the first place 19:11:54 -!- AnotherTest1 has left. 19:26:33 "my point is you need to get it out of your head that you can make code (especially web apps) pefectly secure against code injection attacks" 19:28:15 while that's kind of dumb, I do think focusing on making things "perfectly secure" is rarely worthwhile 19:31:07 securer 19:31:19 type systems make your code "perfectly secure" against memory corruption.... except for bugs in the typechecker, codegen, runtime system, explicitly unsafe code, unsafe libraries, kernel, processor, &c. 19:31:33 having all that stuff in your trusted base is still a huge improvement against having all that stuff *plus* your application in the trusted base 19:31:46 especially because core system stuff gets reused a lot 19:32:16 Servo segfaults a lot, at present 19:32:17 :/ 19:33:01 because of compiler bugs? 19:33:03 or unsafe code? 19:37:38 mostly the latter 19:38:10 we're interfacing to a bunch of C libraries, e.g. SpiderMonkey for JS 19:38:12 imo who builds a language for a single application and makes it insufficient to express that application without going beyond the language 19:38:23 haha 19:39:17 well you could write a JS JIT in Rust, it would just be a huge project 19:39:37 Bless me, father, for I have sinned. 19:39:38 and as we discussed earlier, the memory safety benefits are perhaps not that great 19:39:41 hi Gregor 19:39:45 Hi kmc. 19:39:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 19:39:56 blessed 19:40:03 :) 19:40:07 elliott: I've installed the Kindle app on a Nook. 19:40:09 There are ways to make programs secure if you don't overcomplicate it; I have done so (I think; if you find any bugs please notify me). 19:40:18 I'm fairly certain that there's a special place in hell for people who do that. 19:43:03 Gregor: I didn't know it is compatible. But, I suppose if it is, then of course it is possible to do such thing. 19:43:17 It is, it works great. 19:46:40 I don't think the torrent I'm downloading has peers, oh it does 19:47:10 There's... one peer 19:47:53 Sgeo_: iz okay. LoL is well-known for being not great, which is partly a consequence of some of the properties of the game itself 19:47:55 Unpopular games shouldn't be distributed through BitTorrent 19:48:12 Gracenotes, LoL or LoL's community is well-known for being not great? 19:48:14 F2P being the main one, long-running sessions being another 19:48:32 Are DotA 2 sessions longer or shorter than LoL sessions? 19:49:04 It's a reasonably deep game by itself, but my understanding is that a match's outcome may have been decided, essentially, even 20-30 minutes before the win condition is reached. 19:49:21 Also because it's a team game, there's no prudent resignation like in Go or Starcraft. 19:50:01 I can't say much about DotA 2, but also my understanding is that it has some more desirable properties in the metagame. 19:51:26 It is still *a* community, and one with good corners and bad corners. 19:51:32 (in the case of LoL) 19:51:58 though, yeah, it's probably not a good thing when pro players think nothing of DDOSing opponents. 19:52:34 (and, as this was a few years ago, get subsequently as hellbanned as you can get, hopefully deterring that from happening nowadays... hopefully) 19:52:59 no shortage of drama, which is a good (?) thing 19:53:52 Why do so many games seem so horrible with SLI? 19:56:00 Phantom_Hoover: remove me from your mailing list immediately. i know my rights! 19:56:24 it's not sgeo's. it's the people's list 19:56:55 who brought sgeo into this? 20:04:22 http://forum.notebookreview.com/ideapad-essential/718852-y500-sli-valve-source-game-engine-stuttering-fix.html 20:05:01 What's SLI? 20:05:23 Using two or more nVidia graphics cards together to... I don't know how it works 20:05:34 Crossfire is the ATI equiv 20:07:00 it used to stand for "Scan-Line Interleave" meaning one card does even-numbered lines and one does odd-numbered lines :) 20:07:03 that's not how it works anymore 20:14:05 "Talking to someone I know who works in Nvidia, the problem with SLI on Source games lies not on the Nvidia driver but the Source engine. Valve has to fix it." 20:14:08 hrm 20:14:32 I have non-Source games with the same issue, doubt they're just going to get fixed when Valve fixes Source 20:16:06 are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ 20:17:57 Want to be 20:18:14 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:23:31 `addquote are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ Want to be 20:23:35 1072) are you a hardcore PC gamer Sgeo_ Want to be 20:41:49 What are the most unusual donaim specific programming languages? 20:44:00 define unusual 20:44:35 s/donaim/domain/ 20:44:43 quintopia: I don't really know. 20:45:05 zzo38: are you familiar with the game "cyvasse" 20:45:26 quintopia: No. 20:45:33 I don't know if some of the things at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages might count. 20:46:41 * oerjan is reminded of bancstar 20:48:00 Wikipedia says "cyvasse" is a board game, but not anything else. 20:52:19 I know of various domain specific programming languages, but I don't know what would be the most unusual ones. 20:54:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 20:57:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:57:34 http://gameofcyvasse.com/ 20:57:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:02:27 Some things about DSL are found at http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DomainSpecificLanguage and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LittleLanguage 21:06:56 hm, I realized what Daft Punk's Get Lucky reminds me of. The musical Grease. At least until the voice modulating bits. 21:07:55 Such things are mentioned such as dc, AWK, SQL, TeX. I happen to think these are all pretty good for what they are doing. 21:07:58 ...i don't see how it could remind you of any part of grease 21:08:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:10:04 maybe less brass, but similar guitar riffs, chord sequences, lyrical content. 21:10:15 You may then even consider PostScript, vi, regular expressions, C preprocessor, sendmail, nroff, and possibly even MML and FurryScript. Maybe EXPLOR counts too, and maybe a few other things in esolang wiki (please specify, if you know?). 21:10:40 also the hook "We've come too far", very much like the title song 21:10:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:06 I'm not sure exactly of the music geneology to invoke, but both are vaguely disco-ish. 21:12:18 Perhaps make a list of DSL and of how unusual they are, as well as other thing such as the computation class, etc 21:27:37 The first paragraph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart 21:39:55 "SLI will shut off when you use windowed mode, even borderless windowed mode will shutoff SLI." 21:39:57 fuck 21:43:43 "No, it works in windowed mode. You may or may not lose performance depending on the game. 21:43:43 " 21:43:47 Now I'm confused 21:47:14 What programming languages have list variables but no scalar variables? 21:47:44 LISP or Fortran, maybe? 21:48:30 wut 21:48:53 Mission accomplished 21:49:07 oh no i've been missioned 21:51:50 Python has a partial example: It has strings, which act like lists of characters, but no characters: A character is just a string with 1 character. 21:53:26 This Portal 2 user-made map has non-euclidean geometry (besides Portals I mean) 21:53:50 Also it's not really used to confuse the player, just ... to aid in something 21:53:56 C is a partial example: it has integers, which act like sequences of bits, but no bits: a bit is just an integer with one bit 21:54:50 You're in a room, with beach outside, walk outside of it and the beach was just painted on posters outside the room. But inside, the beach looks and has parallex like real 3d 21:55:10 C has bitfields, doesn't it? 21:55:45 i'm being silly 22:09:03 Sgeo_: I mean variables, not types of values, though. 22:10:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:10:21 I don't know that C mandates any particular representation of bitfields though. 22:10:56 As I understand it specifying a certain number of bits only dictates the set of valid values the variable in the struct may take on. 22:10:58 Can the latest versions of GHC support making classes of classes of classes, including class families? 22:11:02 * variable looks at pikhq_ 22:11:28 Of course, any decent compiler would just do the obvious thing. 22:39:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:46:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:48:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:54:47 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 22:58:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:22:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:31:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:33:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:43:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:40 If I have overlapping words in a "Fwords table" such as "hello" and "lost" and then I want to pack "whellolosticks" for example, let's say I have a cost for each entry in the table too, what is an algorithm to replace sequences of characters with the references so that it lower the encoded space? (The cost of a reference is fixed and is always 2.)