00:05:33 <nooodl> [] aren't actually used in APL at all
00:05:48 <nooodl> well, they are, but they're used for indexing, not iverson brackets
00:06:35 <kmc> shachaf and Gracenotes are in my living room
00:09:40 <katla> i guess the iverson bracket is well defined :(
00:09:48 <katla> it annoys me that you cant break it
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00:10:43 <Bike> well it's well defined insofar as letting you put arbitrary propositions everywhere is well defined
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00:21:21 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for hi people | [ WOMAN VOCALIZING ] ♪♪ [ MAN SPEAKING BACKWARDS ] | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
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01:00:07 <nooodl> shachaf: is this the biggest #esoteric meetup yet??
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01:21:30 <kmc> hm i don't know where nooodl or quintopia lives
01:21:42 <elliott> turns out everyone in #esoteric lives in san francisco. spooky
01:22:42 <nooodl> later this month i might be quite close to hexham though... fsvo close (i'll be "in the uk")
01:26:58 <nooodl> if i end up going to hexham somehow it'd only be fitting not to visit anyone there
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01:29:33 <kmc> wheres taneb
01:32:17 <Bike> update on previous question: i found a really easy algorithm and i don't now how it works because i forgot
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02:02:12 <kmc_> shachaf: shachaf!
02:02:22 * oerjan sees wikipedia lists some important anniversaries for today
02:03:50 <kmc_> today we celebrate america by drinixing beer and listening to canadian post-rock music
02:04:01 <kmc_> well i do anyway
02:04:10 <oerjan> i guess for you americans these anniversaries are tomorrow.
02:04:26 <kmc_> wait did services disappear
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02:05:56 <oerjan> chanserv seems to respond "No such nick/channel" to every command, including help :P
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02:48:11 <oerjan> oh wait duh, it's not chanserv responding, it's the server saying chanserv doesn't exist XD
02:49:22 <elliott> how am I going to ban everyone now??
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02:54:40 <elliott> kmc_: are you and shachaf talking over IRC while being in the same room
02:55:54 <oerjan> elliott: i was going to comment on that but then realized it was a mandatory geek ritual
02:57:10 <Bike> does it count as a ritual if it's just because you're dorks
02:57:58 <oerjan> elliott: hm this is getting serious, we need to ban Bike now but cannot
02:58:42 <Bike> hey i've done it too!!
02:58:45 <Bike> i'm an "insider" here
02:59:12 <oerjan> just go back into elliott's general queue then
03:00:22 * Fiora steals the top of elliott's queue
03:01:06 <elliott> congratulations, you have spared one person from the onslaught... at the end..... one person in #esoteric shall remain unbanned
03:01:14 <elliott> you may bet amongst yourselves as to who it is
03:01:25 <Bike> that's obvious, zzo38.
03:09:08 <Fiora> or I'll just occupy elliott forever with magical friendship beams
03:09:13 <Fiora> then he'll never ban anyone!
03:09:50 <Bike> yeah i'm no match for friendship beams sorry
03:09:54 <Fiora> Bike: useful tip! elliott is weak to friendship
03:10:06 * Bike writes in quest manual
03:10:30 <Fiora> so when you need to get past elliott, don't try to attack him, just ask nicely and offer to have nice long conversations with him! then just give him some cookies and go on your way
03:10:41 <Fiora> useful tip for final bosses
03:11:22 <elliott> looks like I gotta resign ops. will never get to ban anyone at this rate.
03:11:28 <Bike> fuck, cookies might be hard
03:11:36 <oerjan> elliott: it's ok you can still ban unfriendly people
03:11:56 <oerjan> not that i have any idea why anyone would want to do that.
03:12:37 <oerjan> Bike: the hardness can be balanced with chocolate hth
03:13:23 <oerjan> also, brits love stale cookies.
03:13:27 <Fiora> how about chocolate cookies?
03:13:31 <Fiora> chocolate fudge brownies?
03:13:37 <Fiora> with chocolate syrup and strawberries
03:14:44 <Bike> fiora is clearly a veteran of many battles
03:14:59 <elliott> whoever said we need a portmanteau bot is right.
03:15:16 <HackEgo> bal cadiffel fo in clemoricomiclet ia symparokip mcepapj lazcansori jambselle nehagelifiigmedinttaceldstricidamil annkoech ingie frivskelen twelmaban kleselix pellisphteci etu ime pels adcad calidenticelpe neptes handrinco glawa non chby irmullated duresticntre glethriewiverig igue sum mas alme manaecans probiletyburzenrized succs nlelon nits ston
03:15:45 <oerjan> mind you, they should have been portmanteaus in a real language.
03:15:46 <Bike> no, a bot to make a portmanteau given some words.
03:15:48 <Bike> keep up oerjan.
03:16:05 <oerjan> oh, a portmanbot, gotcha
03:16:27 <Bike> see, what if it was portmanbeaut? this is why it's necessary
03:16:35 <Bike> who wrote `thanks again? noodl? let's make him do it
03:16:49 <elliott> ideally if you said "foo, bar" it would portmanteau them automatically.
03:17:07 <elliott> then we could replace shachaf with it :P
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03:29:41 <Bike> somebody tell me how the series floor(x*b^-n) over n works.
03:30:35 <Bike> for positive n.
03:30:38 <Bike> it's important
03:31:59 <Bike> elliott hurry it up!
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03:32:31 <elliott> Bike: I told you! it works very well.
03:32:56 <Bike> your the fucking wurst
03:33:13 <Fiora> wurst? mmm sausage
03:36:45 <oerjan> Bike: it is decreasing hth
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03:39:35 <mastring> Here's a fun challenge. Can you write a program which prompts for the number of elements and then displays and output like: http://pastebin.com/bnziw40r
03:39:48 <mastring> The pattern is simple. First write one's(1) along the top for the number of elements, then write one's(1) down for number of elements - 1 and then back along the bottom for number of elements -2 and then back up again for number of elements - 3 and so on and so on...
03:40:10 <Bike> @oeis 1,2,4,6,10,12,16,18,22
03:40:12 <lambdabot> Primes minus 1.[1,2,4,6,10,12,16,18,22,28,30,36,40,42,46,52,58,60,66,70,72,7...
03:41:24 <Bike> mastring: i believe that is called a spiral. also
03:41:26 <Bike> `welcome mastring
03:41:28 <HackEgo> mastring: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:48:03 <mastring> Would be nice to see some esoteric solutions :)
03:51:11 <oerjan> it looks to me like a problem that _needs_ a mutable 2d array for the solution to be simple
03:51:29 <elliott> oerjan: don't tempt me to try and find a cute functional knot-tying solution
03:51:47 <oerjan> elliott: um, tempting to tempt you, there
03:52:51 <oerjan> hm perhaps you could calculate based on the center somehow
03:54:38 <oerjan> funge98 should be able to handle this, anyway.
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03:57:37 <oerjan> funge98 is good with 2d stuff, being a 2d language
03:58:08 <oerjan> one thing i'm thinking here is that everything except for the left edge is part of a pattern that can be extended infinitely outwards
03:58:51 <Bike> well, if it was more than 10 there'd be more empty columns right
03:59:38 <oerjan> what i mean is that logically you'd want 1's down that left edge instead of 0's
04:00:15 * Bike counts on fingers
04:01:22 <mastring> It looks simple until you look at it and then you realize you can't solve it the way you thought and then you think and think and think and wait a minute all I have to do is....This is a simple problem after all. ;P
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04:05:37 <oerjan> mastring: note that if you remove the left edge, then it's entirely symmetric between 0's and 1's if you rotate it 180 degrees
04:08:46 <mastring> Are you trying to solve it functionally? and the first implementation that came to mind was to rotate the permutations lexically:
04:08:56 <mastring> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51836583/Screenshots/oh.png
04:09:10 <mastring> That way, an odd cardinality simply doesn't render.
04:09:20 <mastring> Just what I thought of then, idk :P
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04:11:47 <oerjan> well i'm thinking of a weirder way of building the n+1 case from the n one
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04:12:15 <oerjan> basically, rotate the matrix clockwise, then put a line of 1's on top and a line of 0's on the bottom (this ignores the left edge)
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04:15:36 <oerjan> hm this _would_ be possible in a knot-tying way, wouldn't it.
04:15:54 <oerjan> well, or recursive, anyway
04:16:36 * elliott is glad to have planted the seed in oerjan's mind
04:16:39 <Bike> ok well, i worked something out. sum of floor(x*b^-n) for positive n is (x - base b digital sum of x)/(b-1).
04:16:50 <Bike> floor is the worst clearly
04:17:16 <Bike> this is rather pointless since computing digital sum is hard anyway but still.
04:17:41 <oerjan> Bike: i wasn't really expecting a more efficient method than shifting and looping, here
04:20:07 <Bike> i'm just glad i worked out something resembling a fact, in the pursuit of something unrelated and also pointless
04:24:06 <oerjan> > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in var . unlines $ spiral 5
04:24:07 <lambdabot> It could refer to either `Data.Number.Symbolic....
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04:24:34 <oerjan> how dare you ruin my favorite text unescaper :(
04:24:44 <oerjan> > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in text . unlines $ spiral 5
04:25:13 <elliott> 05:24:33 <lambdabot> It could refer to either `Data.Number.Symbolic.var',
04:25:14 <elliott> 05:24:33 <lambdabot> imported from `Data.Number.Symbolic' at L.hs:82:1-27
04:25:16 <elliott> 05:24:33 <lambdabot> or `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.var',
04:25:18 <elliott> i guess probably the latter
04:25:20 <elliott> 05:24:33 <lambdabot> imported from `Debug.SimpleReflect' at L.hs:93:1-26
04:25:47 <oerjan> huh i think they both are useful for this purpose, although i _think_ the former used to be imported
04:25:54 <elliott> hm old lambdabot had - yes
04:26:05 <elliott> seems like the latter is more general...
04:26:06 <oerjan> the latter can be faked with fun ... :: Expr
04:26:45 <oerjan> mastring: anyway that's how you can do it functionally in haskell :)
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04:27:01 <elliott> I am tempted to import the latter because I can import the former module as S but would have a harder time coming up with a single-letter alias for the latter
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04:28:00 <elliott> -import Data.Number.Symbolic hiding (var)
04:28:01 <elliott> -import qualified Data.Number.Symbolic as Sym
04:28:01 <elliott> +import Data.Number.Symbolic
04:28:10 <elliott> (diff -u Pristine.hs .lambdabot/State/Pristine.hs)
04:28:18 <elliott> I guess I intended to do that but never actually put it in the actual file
04:29:15 <mastring> > let spiral 1 = ["1","0"]; spiral n = replicate n '1' : (transpose . reverse $ spiral (n-1)) ++ [replicate n '0'] in text . unlines $ spiral 10
04:29:50 <oerjan> that extra space on the first line is a lambdabot quirk
04:30:36 <mastring> oerjan: Would this work in ideone?
04:31:07 <oerjan> i assume so with a minor modification
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04:37:05 <oerjan> http://ideone.com/VGXllV
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05:14:59 <elliott> oerjan: ooh chanserv is back
05:19:44 <Sgeo_> "Warrgle is a combination of war or warrior and eagle. It may also involve warble, a sound a bird makes.
05:19:50 <Sgeo_> tswett_, are you a pokemon?
05:23:30 <Bike> does this mean i'm banned
05:23:54 <elliott> do you want it to mean that
05:24:01 <coppro> Sgeo_: i want to be a pokemon someday
05:24:10 <zzo38> What kind of pokemon?
05:24:11 <Bike> is that a trick question
05:24:17 <zzo38> I like to play pokemon card.
05:24:45 <Sgeo_> My question would have been better if tswett_ used his other nick here
05:24:51 <Sgeo_> well, one of his other nicks
05:25:19 <Sgeo_> I think tswett_ has as many nicks and names as Gregor has hats
05:35:27 <oerjan> he even has a nick that is a wiki admin, although i wouldn't be surprised if he is unable to log in to it
05:36:48 <oerjan> last used 25 february 2009
05:39:50 <oerjan> the bounded gaps of primes project seems to have slowed seriously down :(
05:40:34 <elliott> oerjan is all about the wiki admins now
05:40:52 <Bike> the one i linked before? yeah, well, they made like ten billion percent improvement first so w/e
05:40:57 <oerjan> i'm all about power totally corrupting, yes
05:41:41 <oerjan> yeah but up until a week ago they had something every day
05:41:42 <elliott> still waiting to hear back from Bike in re: whether he wants to be banned
05:41:57 <oerjan> these are tough decisions, elliott
05:42:17 <elliott> Bike: I could kick you if you want a taste of what it's like
05:42:29 <Bike> Sgeo_: I need some advice.
05:43:10 <Sgeo_> And are you sure I'm the best person to ask for advice?
05:44:06 <Bike> Yes. Do I want to be banned?
05:44:42 <Sgeo_> If you were a norn, I could attempt to peek in your brain to find out. Are you a norn?
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06:09:36 <HackEgo> YoNkIe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
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06:23:08 <ion> k. https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/352408433506533377
06:23:43 <Bike> "@ukhomeoffice fyi you seem to have been hacked by the edl"
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06:29:06 <fizzie> "@ukhomeoffice you must have a harder example than finding them in the back of an Immigration Enforcement van?"
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06:29:48 <Bike> they have a whole bunch of tweets like that, the brits in my feed were yelling at them this morning :/
06:29:57 <Bike> by which i mean like last night? fuck time zones
06:31:03 <Fiora> ask elliott, he knows british time zones
06:31:07 <Fiora> and by knows, I mean
06:31:10 <Fiora> he sleeps through them
06:31:47 <elliott> if you sleep through a time zone do you come out on the other side
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06:32:21 <Bike> that explains why you're awake at seven am and have been for like twelve hours
06:32:51 <elliott> it's true, I've been awake at 7 am for like twelve hours.
06:33:03 <Taneb> help I just wrote a short blog post on how fmap for functions is (.) on my mainly fandom blog
06:33:28 <Bike> did you have a homestuck character explain it
06:33:32 <Taneb> for the past 12 hours
06:33:42 <Taneb> I had a sign advertising ice cream explain it
06:33:46 <Bike> well there's your problem
06:33:59 <Taneb> And I just joined 15 channels across 2 servers to say that and nothing else
06:34:03 <Bike> people aren't going to accept caleskellisms if they're not explained by a guy with horns!
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06:35:03 <Bike> so speaking of shit, are hypergeometric functions cool? signs point to hell yes
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07:22:27 <shachaf> Fiora: it's a shame you couldn't come
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07:23:09 <oerjan> funny, simon tatham's "single" puzzle becomes easier with larger board, because there are too many clues...
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07:34:53 <Taneb> Favourite low-ish quality video format for storing movies on SD cards?
07:36:06 <mnoqy> i was about to say flac
07:37:50 <elliott> HAVE WE BEEN USELESS ENOUGH YET????
07:39:02 <shachaf> elliott: today was drugz day in san francisco
07:43:01 <shachaf> mnoqy: drugz day is everyday
07:45:12 <shachaf> mnoqy: hey, you're in california
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08:40:39 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
08:41:51 <elliott> fizzie: what is the cycle limit these days?
08:43:30 <fizzie> The same hundred thousand, I believe.
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09:22:14 <ion> #especiallydrugz
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10:44:47 <fungot> shachaf: he said i should do
10:44:48 <elliott> shachaf meant the other bot, fizzie.
10:45:15 <shachaf> fungot: well tell him you don't do
10:45:16 <fungot> shachaf: ah right. i remember it doing some weird context-based stuff with
10:45:24 <fungot> shachaf: what i mean? riastradh ( i know, but when i go there; i should go
10:46:04 <shachaf> fungot: yes. you should go
10:46:04 <fungot> shachaf: in that case fnord mode are you using? the operational or denotational one? i can't
10:46:35 <shachaf> i guess fungot really can't
10:47:10 <shachaf> fungot, more like nofungot
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12:04:08 <fizzie> Huh, that's funny; a (Linux) box where 'cc' is not GCC. (It's the PGI compiler instead.)
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12:08:12 <HackEgo> ottianna: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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13:19:20 <ion> :-D http://heh.fi/tmp/gg-freenode.png
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15:11:36 <ion> `welcome Guest22624
15:11:38 <HackEgo> Guest22624: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:25:44 <ion> Get Girls to Talk to You http://youtu.be/if8hveMIQPM
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15:40:59 <fizzie> ion: Have you tried this advice?
15:41:13 <ion> I surely will. This advice is golden.
15:42:10 <fizzie> It sounds a bit work-intensive.
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15:49:11 <HackEgo> scorpo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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15:55:53 <zzo38> Are there any programming language where a variable can have multiple types where the same data is valid as all types simultaneously? (This isn't a struct, where you have different fields, or a union, where only one type is usually valid at once)
16:05:48 <Sgeo_> Could kind of fake it with Haskell
16:06:53 <Koen_> ion: hmmm I was half-listening to the whole thing and then suddenly "you reach in your pants and hum you pull your hum chewing-gum out and you hum put it in her mouth"
16:07:23 <scorpo> I suppose a sum type might be kind of close, or if you had subtyping that might be kind of close
16:07:34 <ion> More awesomeness from the same dude. http://youtu.be/iG_QDyHxrnQ http://youtu.be/Dkls0ciI8l0?t=1m
16:09:29 <elliott> zzo38: yes, any language with universal quantification
16:09:47 <elliott> you can view (forall a. ...) as the intersection of ... over all a (due to parametricity)
16:09:58 <Koen_> ion he's bringing another human being into this I'm scared
16:10:03 <zzo38> elliott: Yes, I suppose that does it, but I actually meant something else that I wasn't clear.
16:10:13 <mnoqy> did you mean 'intersection types'
16:10:15 <elliott> e.g. (forall a. a -> a) is the intersection of (() -> ()) and (Integer -> Integer) and (Maybe String -> Maybe String) and ..., which is just {id}
16:10:17 <Sgeo_> Ick I can't seem to get to my bank's website
16:10:30 <zzo38> Perhaps what I really meant is for the data to be valid for multiple enumerations simultaneously, rather than meaning multiple types.
16:10:58 <zzo38> (So I suppose it is only one type; I mean enumerations)
16:11:07 <Sgeo_> Uh... chase.com why u have mixed content?
16:12:08 <mnoqy> probably better to ask customer support than #esoteric
16:12:13 <scorpo> zzo38: what do you mean by multiple enumerations?
16:12:37 <elliott> pfft mnoqy hasn't ever had a bank what oes he know
16:12:52 <mnoqy> i have a bank!!!! i just dont use it
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16:14:41 <zzo38> scorpo: For example in C you might have: typedef enum { AAA, BBB, CCC } ABC; typedef enum { XXX, YYY } XY; and then having some variables that are for one enumeration only, but some where the same data means both enumerations at once (so CCC won't do).
16:21:53 <Sgeo_> Oh, is Guest13514 Gregor?
16:21:58 <Sgeo_> Guest13514, note other channel
16:22:27 <mnoqy> Guest13514 is variable
16:24:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Guest13514.
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16:25:41 <Sgeo_> I meant Guest22624
16:28:32 <ion> “and she is pretty hot, might I add” “and she was my cousin” “I’m just getting luckier and luckier with girls every day.”
16:33:42 <Koen_> ion: in that second video is that really the same guy? in the other videos he looked more oriental somehow
16:35:07 <ion> The first video is two years later than the cousin one.
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16:58:50 <Sgeo_> help I just ordered an incredibly expensive laptop
16:59:15 -!- Guest83873 has changed nick to kmc.
17:00:41 <Sgeo_> Apparently trackpad isn't great, and it's a bit heavy, but other than that it's regarded well I think
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17:01:39 <Sgeo_> Oh and no touchscreen even though Windows 8
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17:03:12 <zzo38> I have once set up someone's new laptop computer, having Windows 8, I don't think it had a touchscreen either. But, it isn't needed; you can use a mouse, and the keyboard; most of the keyboard commands are the same as the older versions of Windows, and cmd.exe still works too, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to use, due to that.
17:03:32 <zzo38> (In fact that was the only reason I was able to figure it out)
17:04:42 <kmc> Sgeo_: which one?
17:04:49 <Sgeo_> Lenovo IdeaPad Y500
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17:05:25 <Sgeo_> Also paid for some warranty stuff on it >.>
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17:12:20 <kmc> `welcome matthiaskrgr
17:12:22 <HackEgo> matthiaskrgr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:13:16 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: commands: not found
17:13:19 <kmc> it's not a very on-topic channel
17:13:38 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
17:13:39 <kmc> there are 3 inhabitants of (∀a. a -> a) in Haskell right?
17:13:57 <mnoqy> id, bottom, const bottom?
17:13:58 <kmc> ⊥, const ⊥, and id
17:14:45 <ion> kmc: and unsafeCoerce "hello"
17:14:46 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
17:15:11 <kmc> it actually boots up a new virtualized Linux system for each command
17:15:18 <kmc> and then merges the filesystem changes using mercurial
17:15:37 <kmc> it's a no-op
17:16:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: help: not found
17:16:27 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found
17:16:53 <kmc> `relcome matthiaskrgr
17:16:55 <HackEgo> matthiaskrgr: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:17:08 <kmc> `paste bin/relcome
17:17:10 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/relcome
17:17:17 <kmc> `paste bin/rainbow
17:17:19 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/rainbow
17:18:14 <Sgeo_> Is unsafeCoerce :: a -> a guaranteed to be id?
17:18:58 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 1: not found
17:19:05 <kmc> Sgeo_: GHC does make such a guarantee, yes
17:19:19 <kmc> it also guarantees that you can coerce between a newtype and the underlying type
17:19:28 <kmc> and from any type to Any and back
17:19:42 <kmc> and maybe other things
17:20:39 <ion> λ> unsafeCoerce (unsafeCoerce (succ :: Integer -> Integer) :: String -> String) (unsafeCoerce (42 :: Integer) :: String) :: Integer
17:21:57 <Sgeo_> I think I may have overspent
17:22:26 <kmc> you have a job
17:22:27 <kmc> you need a laptop
17:22:47 <Sgeo_> Yeah, but it doesn't need to be such an expensive laptop unless I want it for home too
17:24:01 <Sgeo_> Also, maybe I could have hoped that the reason the computers currently at my cubicle are so slow is just lack of memory, and bought some memory for them
17:29:45 <Sgeo_> My order was voided
17:30:37 <Bike> matthiaskrgr: use `run if you want shell
17:31:14 <Bike> `run echo 1 > file ; cat file
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17:51:37 <Sgeo_> May have typoed my street name
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18:42:52 <Sgeo_> I am still not used to Feedly
18:46:01 <Taneb> Sgeo_, I'm using bazqux
18:46:53 <Taneb> But also not free which is a bad thing
18:48:12 <Taneb> It pretty much convinced me to start paying for web software (even though I am still on the free trial)
18:48:16 <Taneb> I actually prefer it to Google Reader
18:50:28 <Sgeo_> The SMBC feed doesn't work sensibly for me in Feedly
18:55:25 <Sgeo_> Also screwed up the TDWTF feed
18:55:48 <zzo38> What other countries is the British ringback tone used in? Is it used in Germany?
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19:07:04 <zzo38> Graham Nelson's Z-machine standards document has many errors in it. Infocom's document also has many errors in it. Therefore, I have to use both.
19:07:11 <FireFly> Doesn't seem so, based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringback_tone#Ringback_tone_characteristics
19:09:46 <zzo38> O, then I wonder what happened. I called someone cellular phone, I believe they are in Germany, but I got the British tone. Is this due to non-direct flights?
19:11:22 <Taneb> I'm reading SMBC again
19:14:30 <Sgeo_> Be sure not to forget about voteys
19:14:42 <Sgeo_> If this is the first time you're learning of voteys, have fun
19:15:52 <Taneb> Oh, I know about voteys
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19:44:06 <Taneb> I shall entomb him in guilded halls
19:44:36 <Taneb> awww, the dead weaver was a mother of a small baby
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20:20:12 <ion> The Great Gatsby VFX http://vimeo.com/68451324
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21:46:14 <olsner> @tell oerjan You don't have any messages
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21:47:56 <oerjan> @tell elliott i think i'd like a command that works like /msg lambdabot @messages, except that it says _nothing_ in private or elsewhere if there are no messages.
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21:48:57 <oerjan> @tell elliott that way i think i can get them automatically in a window when i join, but without showing activity if there are none
21:49:14 <lambdabot> tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages
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21:49:54 <shachaf> oerjan: The current behavior is that if you have any messages, lambdabot will /msg you about it as soon as you say anything at all.
21:50:05 <shachaf> So just saying anything has this behavior.
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21:50:37 <oerjan> i guess. except for the part where i have to say @messages in the query window too.
21:50:51 <shachaf> But that's only if you have messages.
21:51:11 <oerjan> hm, let me adjust my settings...
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21:53:44 <oerjan> oh fuck, why the hell does irssi show activity on just "Starting query in freenode with lambdabot"...
21:54:03 <FreeFull> You can change irssi's act settings
21:54:34 <Sgeo_> I have no idea if this is some kind of troll or a person who really feels like that, or how to deal with it http://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1hpp4c/it_seems_inevitable_that_i_will_kill/
21:55:44 <oerjan> FreeFull: i'm sure you can, but irssi's help menus suck my lifeforce out of me when trying to figure things out
21:56:30 <zzo38> Then use a different documentation of irssi or a different program?
21:57:29 <FreeFull> oerjan: You probably want /set activity_hide_level something
21:58:14 <oerjan> yes. imagine if irssi actually had builtin _help_ on the set options.
21:59:20 <lambdabot> kmc asked 1d 12h 55m 56s ago: Are there TeX macros for typesetting Magic: the Gathering cards?
22:00:01 <zzo38> kmc: No, but I would make up a way to type spoilers of cards using it, if we could have the necessary font.
22:01:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Guest13514.
22:01:49 -!- Guest13514 has changed nick to variable.
22:02:58 <oerjan> even the _online_ documentation for activity_hide_level doesn't link to what the levels _are_...
22:03:16 <olsner> maybe they are integers
22:03:23 <oerjan> which means i'm already two levels of yak shaving beyond my comfort zone.
22:03:59 <oerjan> and about one level from full rage.
22:04:28 * oerjan is not easy to please.
22:07:57 <oerjan> dammit i did the mistake of blathering before opening the logs again. they changed IE so that when i search for my nick, you can _only_ go one step forwards or backwards in the list of searches, so it is horrible to get to anywhere not near the beginning or end.
22:09:20 <oerjan> and of course no one actually mentioned my nick in the period i'm trying to search XD
22:10:24 <oerjan> it's like, when using IE 8 i had so many tiny convenience habits dependent on _precisely_ how it worked, and they've managed to remove a _dozen_ of them...
22:11:08 <oerjan> like, i actually used the address bar dropdown menu as a queue of which of my usual sites i'd remembered to visit recently :P
22:12:00 <oerjan> which depended on the exact rules for _what_ IE puts there and not, the fact that it's a long list and that it's organized in a queue fashion by last visit.
22:14:57 <oerjan> and then current IE has shortened the list to just 5 elements (you can see a 6th if you explicitly delete one of the visible ones), and no way to prevent an address you write from being added (admittedly the last part was really hacky even with IE 8)
22:15:44 <zzo38> Can those settings be changed?
22:15:49 <oerjan> and don't get me started on how the address line autocomplete works
22:15:56 <oerjan> zzo38: i have no idea.
22:16:26 <zzo38> Did you look in the registry setting?
22:16:30 <oerjan> also, i have no particular reason to believe any _other_ browser would care about doing things the ways it works.
22:17:22 <oerjan> zzo38: that would be essentially the equivalent of reading irssi's /set listing, except _worse_, no? so see above about yak shaving and rage.
22:18:03 <zzo38> Then modify some other one to do how you want. Often they have these things that some people like but is hardly ever had. For example, one feature I happen to like is a relative location bar, and I have not seen that anywhere.
22:18:08 <oerjan> (if i can even _find_ the registry. not that i've tried.)
22:19:52 <oerjan> zzo38: the problem is not really technical, but mental.
22:19:56 <zzo38> But, I don't know if anyone else would prefer a relative location bar, anyways. Do you know?
22:20:12 <zzo38> oerjan: O, yes, it always is mental, too.
22:20:19 <zzo38> This causes a lot of problems.
22:25:44 <oerjan> heh another problem which english speakers may not appreciate: when your OS is heavily nationalized, it's sometimes impossible to figure out the right english words for when you _do_ try to google problem-solving fora.
22:27:16 <oerjan> like, i know no:"fane" = en:"tab" because i've seen tabs discussed often enough on the internet, but this doesn't work for terms i've only seen in the nationalized programs/help on my own computer...
22:28:02 <oerjan> some things you can guess, like kontrolpanel -> control panel, but others are harder.
22:28:50 <oerjan> of course microsoft _do_ have nationalized online help pages, but they naturally don't go into the depth needed.
22:30:01 <olsner> hmm, is that fane as in the kind of flag?
22:30:39 <oerjan> i guess it's a weird term to choose, but i'm not sure there's a better one.
22:31:04 <olsner> just transliterating the word "tab" would probably be better
22:31:06 <oerjan> does "tab" mean anything?
22:31:40 <olsner> I think those divider things you have in binders are called tabs
22:31:55 <oerjan> hm i suppose. what are those in norwegian i wonder.
22:32:11 <oerjan> skilleark is the term that pops up
22:33:13 <olsner> tab: A small flap or strip of material attached to something, for holding, manipulation, identification, etc.
22:35:04 <oerjan> bah wiktionary lists only swedish, not norwegian :/
22:36:32 <oerjan> wikipedia's tab disambiguation page doesn't seem to _list_ the binder meaning. although heaps of others.
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22:43:26 <fizzie> "välilehti", lit. something like "between-leaf", from the binder meaning, is the official Finnish term for tab.
22:47:55 <kmc> btw Gracenotes, shachaf it was fun hanging out with you yesterday
22:48:10 <oerjan> my theory is they chose "fane" because norwegian doesn't actually _have_ a word for the archive meaning.
22:49:36 <fizzie> Hanging out? With #eoteric people? Is that even legal!
22:49:54 <olsner> of course it's not legal, but so weren't the drugs
22:50:41 <oerjan> or wait, i started looking at some sites selling the actual physical ones...
22:50:42 <FireFly> Wait, Gracenotes is in #esoteric? I've never noticed that..
22:51:06 <oerjan> i am being forced to conclude "fane" _is_ the technical term for them.
22:53:24 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe they've been renamed to that, after they chose it for the UI-y meaning.
22:55:49 <oerjan> that's disturbingly plausible.
22:59:21 <kmc> new game: writing C++ functions such that the mangled names spell amusing things
23:01:48 <oerjan> i wonder, way back in time, whether there were computers that tried hard to _keep_ a tcp connection open even if your network connection drops dead for half a second. seems like something you'd want to build into the protocol, really.
23:03:58 <oerjan> (inb4 <elliott> linux does hth)
23:04:24 <fizzie> My computer didn't have any trouble keeping TCP connections (to IRC servers) open over a dozen-or-so-seconds PPP hangup+redial+negotiation cycle, way back when I had to do that once every 30 minutes for pricing-related reasons.
23:07:01 <fizzie> (The phone company used to have a flat per-call fee for calls on weekends, and 17-05 on weekdays; then when the Internet started happening, they changed it so that the per-call fee covered only the first 30 minutes, and after that there was a per-minute fee, that was significantly higher than 1/30th of the per-call fee.)
23:08:10 <olsner> that was one of the most annoying things with mac when I had one, every tcp connection is force-closed immediately when your network cable pops out
23:08:38 <olsner> ... and the ethernet port was recessed so that the clip to hold the cable didn't work
23:09:37 <olsner> anyway, what usually keeps TCP connections open in situations like that is just TCP itself doing its thing
23:11:11 <fizzie> I think I did have to do the hangup in some other way than "kill and restart pppd", because I have a feeling bringing the interface down would in fact have killed connections.
23:20:54 <fizzie> That makes me wonder if NetworkManager is silly enough to spork off everything if the cable pops off. ("Normally" that wouldn't affect the configuration at all, but I know it keeps sniffing at link status.)
23:23:17 <olsner> to be fair, there could be an issue if you're on a trusted network, get reconnected to an untrusted one and restart sending data right away
23:34:20 <oerjan> hm the outside ip of my machine doesn't change with disconnection, at least.
23:43:34 <tswett> Ooh, linear logic apparently lets you handle arrays efficiently in a functional language.
23:44:17 <zzo38> It does? What is the way it does?
23:44:21 <tswett> Have a function of type Array that lets you create an array, and functions that let you copy and delete arrays.
23:44:47 <tswett> Then for setting, you can have a function of type (Array * index * value) -o Array, and for getting, you can have a function of type (Array * index) -o (Array, value).
23:45:16 <tswett> I guess you could do exactly the same thing in Haskell.
23:45:38 <tswett> But with this, the compiler knows that Arrays won't be copied or deleted except by using the "copy" and "delete" functions.
23:47:03 <zzo38> What is the comma going to do? It doesn't seem to be one of the operators of linear logic.
23:47:19 <tswett> Whoops, that was supposed to be an asterisk.
23:47:48 <tswett> Denoting multiplicative conjunction ("you have both things").
23:48:12 <zzo38> (There isn't an asterisk in linear logic either, but I see, you mean the "times" symbol (multiplication conjunction, like you waid).)
23:52:01 <oerjan> <Sgeo_> If this is the first time you're learning of voteys, have fun <-- argh what are voteys
23:53:17 <oerjan> oh. whew, i knew that.
23:53:29 <oerjan> wtf are they called voteys
23:53:40 <olsner> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentometer ?
23:53:53 <shachaf> oerjan: they used to only be shown to people who voted for the comic