00:03:57 <oerjan> <boily> so yeah. who has moved lately? <-- i have moved about 4 km southeast hth
00:04:09 <elliott> are you still in trondheim
00:07:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:08:11 -!- Bike has joined.
00:09:41 <Bike> Poll: How long ago is "ancient"
00:11:07 <kmc> July 6, 1189
00:12:23 <Fiora> long enough ago that I don't remember it
00:14:26 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:15:34 -!- Bike has joined.
00:15:39 <oerjan> elliott: i believe i'm still within city limits, yes
00:15:58 <Bike> that poll sucked.
00:16:27 <elliott> oerjan: can I have directions for when I visit
00:20:55 <oerjan> elliott: http://goo.gl/maps/SMmWk hth
00:21:39 <Koen__> is that a map of a crop?
00:27:12 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:29:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:32:56 <oerjan> Koen__: it's a cropped map of a crop hth
00:33:30 <Koen__> you live next to the beach though
00:34:12 <oerjan> i'm afraid much of that beach is also changing into apartments hth
00:34:45 <Koen__> well I guess it's a good news for the people who are gonna move into those appartments
00:35:18 <Koen__> thoug according to that map, if you have just moved 4km southeast... you used to live in the sea?
00:35:55 <oerjan> well _approximately_ southeast.
00:35:59 <elliott> I always knew oerjan was a mermaid
00:36:11 <elliott> there was just something fishy about him this whole time.
00:38:00 <oerjan> http://goo.gl/maps/2Whbx
00:38:36 <elliott> don't I get at least a swat for that pun?
00:39:10 <elliott> ah, oerjan lives on the roof.
00:39:57 * lambdabot throws some pointy lambdas at elliott
00:40:32 <Gracenotes> shiba are just so cute. http://i.imgur.com/VKT21lx.png
00:42:01 <shachaf> I didn't say you were not nice.
00:42:36 <oerjan> <Fiora> aren't any coordinates approximate? like how many sigfigs are necessary to no longer be approximate <-- the exact point has to be inside your body hth
00:44:01 <Gracenotes> I don't want any points inside of my body
00:44:58 <elliott> it's ok copumpkin, I still like you.
00:45:14 * copumpkin hugs elliott and gives shachaf a dirty look while doing so
00:45:29 <Fiora> I wonder if GPS is accurate enough for that.
00:45:33 <Gracenotes> just because you like copumpkin doesn't mean you have to like CT, btw
00:45:47 <copumpkin> which CT are we talking about here?
00:46:26 <shachaf> That's the kind of think I'm talking about.
00:46:31 <Gracenotes> I think 'Connecticut' would be less offensive than 'category theory' in this context
00:46:50 <Gracenotes> offending several million people vs. possibly hundreds
00:48:14 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
00:48:34 <elliott> how is it any different from a copumpkin hug then? <--- burn & zing & snap
00:49:20 * Fiora hugs elliott just to hug elliott
00:49:49 <shachaf> this channel is discriminating against me
00:50:27 * Fiora hugs shachaf too, okay? :<
00:50:56 <shachaf> does that even mean anything
00:51:07 <shachaf> i can feel the reluctance :'(
00:51:52 <Fiora> I'm sorry ._. I just won't do anything next time...
00:52:04 <shachaf> Fiora: You were fine! It was a joke.
00:52:42 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
00:54:38 -!- Bike has joined.
00:55:11 <shachaf> history's worst mass-murderer
00:56:26 <Bike> hetty sure is a character.
00:56:42 <shachaf> How do you write ^-1 in Unicode?
00:57:49 <Bike> ⁻¹ not good enough for you huh
00:59:02 -!- kallisti has joined.
00:59:03 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host).
00:59:03 -!- kallisti has joined.
01:01:53 <elliott> kmc: so have you convinced them to make the rust syntax less ugly yet.....
01:03:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
01:07:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
01:11:46 <kmc> no i haven't
01:11:52 <kmc> someone was arguing a lot about semicolons today in #rust
01:19:12 <shachaf> kmc: what about lexical syntax of comments
01:20:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre.
01:21:48 <Sgeo_> "This may seem like a sneaky attempt to trick developers, but this behavior is actually specified in HTML5[2]. The navigator.product property must be Gecko and navigator.appName should be either Netscape or something more specific. Strange recommendations, but Internet Explorer 11 follows them."
01:22:43 <Sgeo_> "Must return either the string "Netscape" or the full name of the browser, e.g. "Mellblom Browsernator".
01:25:39 <Sgeo_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14573881/why-the-javascript-navigator-appname-returns-netscape-for-safari-firefox-and-ch
01:26:29 <oerjan> so has anyone created a Mellblom Browsernator yet
01:35:17 -!- Bike has joined.
01:36:21 <Bike> so does anyone know how to make kernel modules stop being terrible. or at least how i can get their versions to learn that my version is actually a DLL from 1997.
01:37:44 <mnoqy> no im pretty sure thats just that dang ol eternal mystery again
01:39:02 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:39:26 <Sgeo_> Oh, what I pasted wasn't wrong, I just misread
01:40:25 <Gracenotes> "How do I turn this human back on again?"
01:40:34 <Gracenotes> "You can't, Android Friend. You killed him."
01:40:48 <Gracenotes> later Android Friend acquires a taste for blood etc.
01:53:00 -!- Lymia has joined.
01:53:22 <kmc> what's this about dlls
01:53:41 <kmc> shachaf: oh, one interesting thing is that /*! foo bar */ is sugar for #[doc("foo bar")] or so
01:54:21 <kmc> the latter is an example of an attribute
01:55:02 <kmc> attributes seem cool to me, I guess they are really no different from __attribute__((foo)) or {-# FOO #-} but the syntax is less hackish, being designed in from the beginning
01:55:11 <kmc> and they have a standard sort of key-value syntax
01:58:34 <shachaf> well, {-# #-} is "designed in"
01:58:57 <shachaf> well, maybe not entirely so, since it's clearly made to be compatible with comments
01:59:31 <shachaf> san francisco, tomorrow, evening-ish?
02:00:15 <shachaf> i might go to sf earlier in the day
02:00:25 <kmc> shachaf: it's not in haskell 98!!!
02:00:33 <shachaf> kmc: it's in 2010, at least
02:00:44 <shachaf> http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/pragmas.html
02:00:47 <Gracenotes> shachaf: I expect I will be joining you, probably
02:01:08 <shachaf> i wish they'd introduce a one-line --# FOO syntax
02:01:48 <kmc> we will probably meet somewhere in the Mission or SoMa
02:01:53 <kmc> I live at 26th and Bryant
02:02:05 <kmc> but we might be watching fireworks from mozilla office at 2 Harrison
02:02:11 <kmc> but likely not?
02:02:15 <kmc> anyway shachaf has my phone number
02:02:29 <Gracenotes> no, mozilla will be overful of people already?
02:02:43 <Gracenotes> they are not free as in free-fireworks-viewing?
02:02:44 <elliott> though I do not have kmc's phone number
02:02:45 <kmc> Gracenotes: they're doing a lottery to see who can go
02:02:54 <kmc> and have not sent out results yet
02:03:10 <shachaf> Is it a small office that lots of people want to go to or something?
02:03:20 <Gracenotes> How about first-come-first-serve, get there 2 hours early. that will be fun.
02:03:57 <shachaf> mozilla fireworx, the new web browser written in rust
02:04:16 <kmc> shachaf: it's a pretty large office but they say it's unsafe to have more than 100 people on the roof deck
02:05:33 <elliott> I can't help shake the feeling that this some elaborate hazing ritual on kmc
02:06:00 <elliott> "the ol' roof deck fireworks lottery"
02:09:56 <Gracenotes> I hope Mozilla employees and friends of Mozilla employees don't do anything dumb like have illicit substances
02:10:02 <Gracenotes> they would not be a fun party, in that case
02:10:21 <kmc> i don't understand
02:10:37 <Gracenotes> well, oh, or SF police just might not care, too.
02:10:39 <kmc> are you seriously going to be upset if people are smoking weed around you
02:10:54 <kmc> SF police could not possibly give less of a shit about people smoking weed
02:10:59 <Gracenotes> kmc: not that upset relatively speaking
02:11:17 <kmc> being upset about not liking the smell of smoke or something is reasonable
02:11:32 <shachaf> it is a somewhat difficult smell to avoid in sf :'(
02:11:37 <kmc> and it is polite of people to smoke outdoors / otherwise away from people who mind
02:11:48 <Gracenotes> I mean, if you want good examples of being not observing proper drug-smoking etiquette, just go to a music festival
02:11:50 <kmc> but if you're very much against weed-smoking in general then, uh, you probably won't have a good time hanging out with me and my friends
02:12:30 <shachaf> kmc: i was in Weed, CA once
02:12:41 <elliott> i'm against smoking weeds because you're not meant to just smoke random weeds from your garden......... try some drugs instead
02:13:30 <shachaf> elliott: are drugs like drugz?
02:14:11 <Gracenotes> we need an PSA t-shirt saying "I'm high on Haskell"
02:14:31 <elliott> ok so my july 4th looks like this
02:14:32 <kmc> Gracenotes: no, but on a holiday that is largely about looking at pretty explosions, it is safe to assume some weed will be smoked
02:14:37 <elliott> trondheim -> san francisco -> ???
02:14:42 <elliott> or maybe sf comes before trondheim
02:14:50 <elliott> does anyone else want me to visit
02:15:03 <Bike> are we having our antarctica trip
02:15:14 <kmc> why trondheim
02:15:29 -!- sprocklem has joined.
02:15:53 <shachaf> what's oerjan's approximate body weigh
02:16:45 <elliott> Bike: how close would you say you are to san francisco
02:17:19 <Bike> let me see if i can "pull a Fiora" for you
02:17:55 <mnoqy> what's a fiora and how do you pull it
02:19:08 <Bike> apparently i don't know
02:19:24 <Bike> google says a drive would take ten hours, 38 minutes
02:19:32 <Bike> or ten hours, 41 minutes in present traffic, thanks
02:19:37 <elliott> ok but what if I have wings.
02:19:39 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
02:19:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
02:19:45 <shachaf> it would be about 16 hours from where i lived in washington
02:19:58 <Bike> how fast do you fly exactly
02:20:02 <shachaf> or maybe 24 hours if you stop to sleep et c
02:20:02 <Bike> are you offering to like carry me
02:20:11 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: 670
02:20:21 <elliott> thats how much i love you Bike
02:20:29 <Bike> pretty far imo
02:20:30 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: way farther
02:20:38 <Bike> are you trying to like triangulate me
02:20:55 <Bike> ok well it's 44 hours.
02:21:00 <Bike> or, in current traffic, 44 hours.
02:21:17 <elliott> i dont think disatnces that long even exist
02:21:29 <Bike> british people, am i right
02:21:29 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm planning to just use two and discard the one that's in the sea
02:21:41 <Bike> you could just like, ask
02:22:00 <Bike> says where i'm from not where i am!
02:22:03 <Bike> oh hey HackEgo is fixed.
02:22:08 <Bike> guess san francisco got my note.
02:22:14 <shachaf> i drove from portland to california once :'(
02:22:25 <elliott> `addquote <shachaf> Hmm, is an Electronic Signature in a PDF file a thing? <shachaf> How do they work? <zzo38> [1] Yes. [2] It doesn't.
02:22:28 <Bike> i did that too, imo it sucked.
02:22:29 <HackEgo> 1066) <shachaf> Hmm, is an Electronic Signature in a PDF file a thing? <shachaf> How do they work? <zzo38> [1] Yes. [2] It doesn't.
02:22:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover gets to readd his quote himself
02:23:01 <Bike> "Take the Interstate 84 E exit toward Ogden/Salt Lake, 589 mi" these directions are great
02:23:13 <shachaf> kmc: ok the plan is for Gracenotes and me to take the train to sf tomorrow and then meet y'all somewhere in soma/mission
02:23:21 <Bike> Keep left at the fork, follow signs for I-80 E/Cheyenne and merge onto I-80 E
02:23:22 <Bike> for 1008 miles
02:23:49 <Bike> wow it's recommending toll roads
02:23:59 <shachaf> Bike: there's an option for no tolls
02:24:02 <elliott> how many walses is 1008 miles
02:24:23 <Bike> the radius of the earth is apparently 3,959 miles
02:24:24 <shachaf> @google 1008 miles in walses
02:24:27 <lambdabot> http://www.distancebetweencities.net/wales_me_and_west-van-lear_ky/
02:24:27 <lambdabot> Title: Distance between Wales, ME and West Van Lear, KY 1008 Miles / 1622 Km
02:25:22 <shachaf> elliott: imo you should come visit
02:25:22 <Bike> how wide is wales
02:25:38 <shachaf> elliott: use the copumpkin method of travel
02:25:45 <elliott> i already said i'm visiting tomorrow
02:25:59 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: everything in the US is named after something in the isles, yes
02:26:11 <Bike> anyway this map makes it look like wales is about the size of massachusetts
02:26:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: the: not found
02:26:21 <Bike> so, 1008 miles is like..................... i'm gonna say a hundred waleses at least.
02:27:14 <Bike> yeah i think so
02:28:26 <Bike> oh " It is about 274 km (170 mi) north–south and 97 km (60 mi) east–west"
02:28:28 <elliott> imagine leaving wales and being like
02:28:40 <elliott> let's name this place that is definitely far better than wales, after wales
02:28:45 <Bike> wait that was dumb
02:28:55 <Bike> exacty 16.8 waleses
02:29:51 <ion> Space wales. Falling toward the planet over which they happened to come into existence.
02:30:31 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined.
02:30:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: can there not be two incomparably great evils in the world
02:30:45 <shachaf> why would you hate scotland
02:30:47 <kmc> shachaf: sgtm
02:30:52 <Bike> "We could not calculate directions between Moscow, Russia and Anadyr, Chukotka Autonomous Okrug, Russia." google maps disappoints me
02:31:18 <Bike> "We could not calculate directions between Moscow, Russia and Beijing, China." oh come on! there's a train
02:31:48 <elliott> Bike: can you ask it whether there's a ferry from newcastle to uh what was it, bergen
02:31:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, sadly they have fixed the bug where ferries are considered zero distance for foot directions
02:31:49 <shachaf> kmc: so you should call me or something when you know concrete plans, probably
02:31:52 <ion> Google Maps should make a Soviet Russia joke when it can’t figure out a route in Russia.
02:32:06 <shachaf> anyway /me vanishes for a bit
02:32:27 <Phantom_Hoover> which meant that if you asked for directions between any two sufficiently distant points in the british mainland it would take you across the irish sea at least twice
02:32:27 <Gracenotes> or just send a global notice on all of freenode
02:32:37 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: awesome
02:32:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: i loved that
02:33:14 <kmc> shachaf: sounds good
02:33:14 <Phantom_Hoover> i once asked for directions from john o'groats to land's end
02:33:20 <kmc> how about you call/text me when you arrive in sf
02:33:26 <kmc> and i can reply with my coördinates
02:33:41 <Bike> wow, it actually can give you directions from moscow to birobidzhan
02:33:51 <tswett> Ooh. 2 + 3 = 1 * 5 and 2 * 3 = 1 + 5.
02:33:59 <Phantom_Hoover> the route went through all 4 UK countries, the republic, the isle of man, and france
02:34:00 <tswett> Pretty sure I just discovered the greatest mathematical theorem ever.
02:34:04 <Bike> the instructions consist of "take this highway for 99 hours" but still
02:34:41 <elliott> Bike: come on how do I get to norway
02:34:57 <elliott> I know you're thinking well why would you want to but some of our less fortunate friends live there
02:35:26 <Bike> ok ok i'm done wrestling with russia let me see
02:35:46 <zzo38> tswett: O, you found out things like that. I don't think it is "the greatest mathematical theorem ever"; it is just something you notice. Others notice other things too, not only in mathematics. A while ago I noticed that the initial letters of the first four astrological signs are the same as the initial letters of DNA.
02:35:50 <Bike> first let me see if it can do newcastle to Birobidzhan
02:35:52 <Bike> oh my god, it can.
02:35:53 <Gracenotes> tswett: just find distinct factors of numbers with identical sums hth
02:36:12 <Bike> 7125 miles, 132 hours of driving
02:36:36 <Bike> ok so: you mean bergen norway right
02:36:45 <Bike> the answer is, it has you drive.
02:37:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hpmordate: not found
02:37:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:37:42 <Bike> through the chunnel, and then a ferry (!!!!!) from larvik to hirtshals.
02:38:17 <elliott> Bike: i mean trondheim norway
02:38:24 <elliott> bergen is just where the ferry used to go
02:38:37 <Bike> yeah basically the same
02:38:41 <Bike> except you go norther
02:38:48 <elliott> ok but i don't have a car.
02:38:56 <Bike> also this takes 29 hours
02:39:03 <Bike> so, probably should leave like yesterday?
02:39:45 <elliott> that's ok, Fiora has the time travel thing sorted out.
02:39:58 <Bike> but seriously, this thing can give you driving directions from hexham to Birobidzhan, that is cool as hell imo.
02:40:19 <elliott> it's impressive that there is even a way to get to not-hexham from hexham
02:40:36 <elliott> cant get there from here, as they say
02:41:16 <Bike> shit yes it does hexham to thailand
02:41:31 <Bike> "This route has tolls. This route includes a car transport."
02:41:47 <Bike> also you have to drive through iran.
02:42:37 <Bike> "Pass by Zubair Traders and Electronics (on the left in 0.3 mi)" this is the best shit
02:42:44 <zzo38> I had idea of some programming language for Magic: the Gathering cards. One feature is that the printout is different than the input; for example, replacing ~ with the card's name, displaying mana symbols, making reminder text italic, and changing around some of the special programming symbols into printout format (including hiding things if necessary).
02:43:08 <Bike> elliott: http://goo.gl/maps/lKISo
02:43:25 <elliott> ummmm that's not a picture
02:43:27 <Bike> Elliott's Journey
02:43:55 <elliott> i really like how it talks about like individual roundabouts
02:44:03 <Bike> yes it's great
02:44:13 <Bike> you will pass so-and-so petrol station, in waziristan
02:44:15 <zzo38> For example, "Draw =3 cards." means the same as "Draw 3 cards." but prints as "Draw three cards."
02:44:31 <Bike> "Driving directions to Cape Town, South Africa. This route crosses through multiple countries."
02:44:39 <Bike> i christen this route "imperialism"
02:44:42 <elliott> Pass by ГРАДСКО САОБРАЋАЈНО ПРЕДУЗЕЋЕ "БЕОГРАД" - САОБРАЋАЈНИ ПОГОН КОСМАЈ (on the right in 3.8 mi)
02:45:18 <Bike> hm yes has you driving through dr congo
02:45:41 <elliott> so you realise i have to travel this route sometime in my life now right
02:45:53 <Bike> do you need to go to bangkok
02:46:00 <zzo38> Plurals of subtypes can be indicated by "=s" such as "Destroy all Wall=s."
02:46:11 <zzo38> What other ideas do you have about things like this?
02:46:26 <zzo38> Comments are in parentheses.
02:46:59 <zzo38> Other punctuation has other purposes.
02:47:08 <Gracenotes> It would take you 100 days to walk without stopping
02:47:09 <Bike> jesus you can plot to /jakarta/
02:47:43 <elliott> Pass by CENTRAL BANK OF INDIA
02:47:47 <Bike> pretty much just trying to get the longest routes possible atm
02:47:57 <Bike> this one's 249 hours, 10,289 mi
02:48:23 <Gracenotes> so if you walked for 6.6 hours a day, it would take you a full year
02:48:32 <Bike> oh there's a ferry from singapore to indonesia. why did i not think of that.
02:49:04 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__).
02:50:11 <elliott> Bike: We could not calculate directions between Hexham, Northumberland, UK and Antarctica.
02:50:45 <Bike> elliott: it can do hexham to dili though.
02:51:16 <Bike> 340 hour drive
02:51:52 <oerjan> tswett: 2 + 2 = 2 * 2 hth
02:51:55 <elliott> We could not calculate directions between Hexham, Northumberland, UK and Tokyo, Japan.
02:52:50 <elliott> Bike: hexham to serbia = success
02:53:04 <elliott> serbia isn't where i was thinking of
02:53:10 <elliott> oh my god I've forgotten what it's called
02:53:33 <zzo38> Gracenotes: Yes, kind of like that; I meant that it has markup used to reformat for printing, although the computer can also execute it as a program.
02:54:35 <elliott> that is the question nobody can answer, Gracenotes
02:54:40 <Gracenotes> zzo38: is this to do simulation-y stuff?
02:54:53 <zzo38> Gracenotes: What is "simulation-y stuff"?
02:54:57 <Gracenotes> presumably the standard libraries ofsuch a language might encode the rules of Magic
02:54:58 <elliott> Bike: ok seriously, what's the place that's like russia but worse called.
02:55:11 <elliott> that is literally the best description I have.
02:55:17 <Gracenotes> zzo38: like, statistical analysis of various decks
02:56:23 <zzo38> Gracenotes: Yes, that is what I mean; the standard libraries include rules of Magic. But I don't really mean statistical analysis (you can still do that, but you don't need to parse the card text as a program to do so); I mean to implement the game in computer.
03:00:33 <zzo38> You would have further syntax for specifying that something is a card name, and so on.
03:03:58 <zzo38> There could be a syntax <|> where the text before | is a program and after | is a comment; only the comment will print (and the <|> won't print). We could also have [] to embed Haskell codes, or whatever it is.
03:04:38 <zzo38> Use {} to delimit mana symbols and other symbols.
03:04:39 <oerjan> <elliott> Bike: ok seriously, what's the place that's like russia but worse called. <-- belarus?
03:04:58 <elliott> it's like, in russia. you know. thing
03:06:28 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/o0EQIlV.png help. they're on to me
03:06:33 <elliott> oerjan: yes, that. not serbia
03:07:25 <oerjan> that's probably a picture of Bryggen (Bergen world heritage site)
03:09:41 <oerjan> only remaining hanseatic league office, or something like that
03:10:59 <zzo38> The other thing to do is that ~ and ~~ both mean a reference to itself (even if the text containing the tilde is being applied to a different object, although if it is copied, the text will refer to the copy), but prints as the name of the card. If the name of the card contains a comma, then ~~ will omit the comma and everything that comes after it.
03:12:10 <zzo38> (So there are many syntaxes to mean the same thing; what other programming languages also do the same thing and in a similar way?)
03:17:21 <Bike> siberia is like
03:18:13 <Bike> elliott: btw that Birobidzhan place? EAST OF SIBERIA BRO
03:19:18 <elliott> geography is too hard when I'm this tired, Bike.
03:21:38 <Bike> where'd you think a place called Birobidzhan was gonna be
03:46:14 <shachaf> elliott: did you ever finish inventing n-dimensional fenceposts
03:47:12 <shachaf> kmc: http://contemplatecode.blogspot.com/2013/07/haskell-weekly-news-issue-272.html
04:06:54 <oerjan> hm i just did https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Esoteric_programming_language&curid=53398&diff=562623568&oldid=562606940 and i've come to think about whether there are any other, disjoint communities of note. didn't there use to be quite a bit of stuff in japanese, which might mean there's a whole disjoint community as well...
04:09:26 <elliott> we need jsvine to finish that article so we can have more citations on wikipedia
04:12:07 <oerjan> i try to google translate https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/難解プログラミング言語 and google tells me the address is invalid :(
04:12:34 <elliott> you think they'd get that stuff right for a translation tool
04:13:32 <shachaf> well i used the google translate built into chromium
04:13:57 <shachaf> i like these descriptions of languages
04:14:03 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: Japanese esolang & obfuscation community is vibrant (to me), and it is more or less disjoint
04:14:53 <oerjan> _somehow_ i'd got a :443 port into there, it worked when i removed it.
04:14:55 <shachaf> Befunge self-change possible two-dimensional array source code
04:15:13 <shachaf> Lazy K in a pure functional language, rather than the syntax for defining a new function, built-in function does not exist only three
04:15:14 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: so i thought the english wikipedia should have a link to it
04:15:37 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: I think there is no central point in Japanese community though
04:16:21 <lifthrasiir> many activities occur in hatena diaries (Japanese's equvialent to LJs, or similar) of interested people
04:16:51 <shachaf> fungot: you should invent a programming language
04:16:51 <fungot> shachaf: but big bucks are for it. if it's the code, forcer?... by clog? cmeme does the logging.
04:17:11 <shachaf> fungot: go for the big bucks
04:17:11 <fungot> shachaf: okay, maybe someone will rip the eventual dvd subtitles... otherwise it works just as well?
04:17:37 <lifthrasiir> also note that the community itself is smaller, but they have managed to make esolang and obfuscation (specifically code golfing) to a general pastime of Japanese programmers somehow
04:18:35 <elliott> lifthrasiir: it seems like it overlaps significantly with golf in japan
04:18:41 <elliott> to a greater extent than in the west
04:18:45 <elliott> but i don't know how true this is
04:19:09 <lifthrasiir> elliott: yes, code golfing is a lot popular in Japan than in the west (I think)
04:19:38 <lifthrasiir> and some of code golfers happen to be interested in esolangs
04:20:21 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:20:43 <lifthrasiir> I haven't seen such unexpected popularity in Korea
04:21:48 <lifthrasiir> (popularity, is of course relative, and we all know most programmers don't know even their existence, but golfing is relatively popular in Japan than in the west...)
04:25:18 <elliott> i think any programming culture which has these kind of oddities at the forefront is pretty great
04:34:00 <shachaf> Bike: oh _Mathematics Made Difficult_ is good
04:34:28 <Fiora> is there golfing with assembly, like, writing the shortest assembly program in bytes? I guess demos are a little like that
04:34:57 <shachaf> There is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoptimization
04:35:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
04:35:26 <Bike> it doesn't count in assembly since it might actually be useful.
04:36:00 <shachaf> Fiora: imo we should play x86 golf
04:36:18 <Fiora> I don't think it's actually useful
04:36:24 <Fiora> like, you can do totally silly things that are really slow
04:36:55 <shachaf> There are always extreme cases.
04:37:04 <Fiora> but that's the fun part! doing silly things
04:37:27 <shachaf> and then it's called being confusing
04:38:37 <shachaf> OK, I guess I'll fix lens instead.
04:41:21 <tswett> zzo38: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer... HOLY SHIT
04:41:24 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Changing host).
04:41:24 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
04:41:36 <tswett> They're in the wrong order, though. Everyone knows the order is GCAT, not ATGC.
04:42:06 <zzo38> I didn't know there is an order of the DNA.
04:47:11 <tswett> Unrelated: I like how there's some consensus about what the most important mathematical concept is.
04:48:02 <shachaf> there's a lot of consensus about what the easiest mathematical concept is, too
04:48:27 <tswett> Hm. Lemme try to think what I think the easiest mathematical concept is.
04:48:58 <tswett> I'm gonna say... the contrapositive of the substitution principle. If two things differ in some way, then they are not the same thing.
04:49:09 <Bike> leibniz equality?
04:50:43 <shachaf> Bike: help you're not even in #haskell
04:50:50 <tswett> Hm. The Leibniz equality reminds me of a certain philosophical argument that there should be no uncountable sets.
04:50:55 <Bike> why would i be in #haskell.
04:51:33 <shachaf> because ion is talking about leibniz equality in #haskell
04:51:44 <tswett> Uncountable proper classes are okay, but there should be no uncountable sets. The idea is that given two different uncountable sets, it may be impossible to distinguish between them even given an infinite amount of time.
04:51:47 <Bike> ok but that's some weird typery i don't really care about.
04:52:02 <tswett> And if two things are impossible to distinguish, they should not be considered different.
04:52:08 <tswett> So, uncountable sets should not be admitted.
04:52:21 <Bike> tswett: sounds............. constructive
04:55:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
04:58:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38).
05:09:15 <oerjan> well i still don't know if there's a way to get a pointer to the Japanese community into wikipedia, but at least i found the KEMURI language to add to our wiki.
05:16:09 -!- Poolala has joined.
05:17:34 <oerjan> i wonder which IE designer had the bright idea of excluding https links from the _users own log_...
05:34:21 -!- geo5 has joined.
05:34:24 -!- geo5 has left.
05:53:01 <ion> It's Not About The Nail http://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg
06:04:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
06:05:48 -!- Bike has joined.
06:14:32 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed).
06:20:33 -!- FreeFull has quit.
06:22:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:24:39 <oerjan> ion: and sometimes it really _isn't_ about the nail but everyone insists it is.
06:25:40 <oerjan> or maybe i just am that lady, sigh.
06:26:05 <fizzie> Sometimes the nail is just a penis. I mean a nail.
06:38:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:21:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:22:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
07:23:00 <myname> i don't even get lambdabot to work with irc :(
07:23:16 -!- heroux has joined.
07:24:15 <oerjan> > "but i work just fine!"
07:25:12 <myname> do you have any idea what the parameters of the irc-connect function actually are?
07:25:58 <myname> i assume network name, network address, port, user name, ???, ???
07:26:20 <myname> the last two may be passwort and join message or the like, but i'm pretty unsure
07:29:32 <oerjan> myname: you forgot the name and bloodtype of your firstborn
07:29:51 <myname> oerjan: that's because there is no firstborn
07:30:10 <oerjan> ah. well then you cannot run lambdabot sorry
07:31:33 <myname> i found nothing that looks like a documentation, though
07:31:47 <lambdabot> irc-connect tag host portnum nickname userinfo. connect to an irc server
07:32:02 <myname> "yeah, there is this online.rc file, but we won't tell you what it looks like"
07:32:23 <shachaf> tag, hostname, port, nick, user
07:32:25 <myname> how do i set a server password?
07:32:39 <shachaf> My lambdabot came with an online.rc...
07:33:30 <shachaf> I guess ellimokus got rid of it.
07:33:32 <myname> i just threw out cabal install and got a dictionary with a bunch of binaries
07:33:51 <shachaf> Maybe try "cabal unpack lambdabot"
07:34:30 <myname> and then making the setup steps myself?
07:34:46 <myname> i really don't see the advantages, but well
07:35:09 <myname> if i can't provide a server password, it may be pretty useless for me nontheless
07:37:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
07:38:21 <myname> in the unpacked online.rc is "password.rc" as a parameter of the irc-connect command, but i don't find password.rc ...
07:39:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:45:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh).
07:45:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
07:47:09 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:54:29 <myname> oh dear, just looking at the code makes me crying blood
07:55:58 <myname> "how hard can it be to look at how to add a password"
08:08:52 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:44:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
08:53:32 <kmc> shachaf: it was inevitable really
08:57:14 <ion> drugz https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/1015321_10200452898865210_1550553282_o.jpg
08:57:57 <shachaf> help where did that s come from
09:02:17 <kmc> ion: do you have a link / translation?
09:03:03 <ion> It’s just a boring article about people using more cannabis, the image was the funny part.
09:03:24 <kmc> @ask zzo38 Are there TeX macros for typesetting Magic: the Gathering cards?
09:03:43 <kmc> ion: yeah so why is there a syringe
09:03:50 <kmc> someone is confused
09:03:57 <shachaf> kmc: http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git
09:04:25 <kmc> btw if the article says: how many people in your fair country smoke weed, anyway
09:05:31 <shachaf> huh, zzo338 runs an irc server
09:06:07 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/zzo38-irc.txt
09:07:06 <ion> +HITLER sounds awsome.
09:07:14 <kmc> /join +HITLER
09:07:35 <kmc> what's a + channel anyway
09:08:05 <shachaf> These unmoderated channels work almost exactly the same as '#' channels, except nobody can obtain channel operator status on them. Some implementations seem to set the channel mode to '+nt' upon creation, however most implementations act as if modes +nt are set but don't announce them as being set.
09:08:17 <ion> kmc: The only numbers in the visible part of the article are about 132 drugz-related crimes in Central Ostrobothnia last year, 114 in the preceding year.
09:08:43 <shachaf> ion: if i drugz will i become a criminal
09:08:46 <kmc> is "having drugz" a drugz-related crime
09:09:53 <ion> kmc: I think so. The paragraph talks about “crimes related to the use and sales of cannabis”, which probably means “the use and sales of cannabis”.
09:10:08 <kmc> then kind of a bullshit metric imo
09:10:20 <shachaf> y'all should join me on zzo38computer.org
09:10:29 <kmc> is that the ICANN port for IRC?
09:10:39 <ion> irc 194/tcp
09:10:57 <kmc> (IANA? whoever)
09:32:06 -!- sacje has quit (*.net *.split).
09:32:06 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split).
09:37:49 -!- sacje has joined.
10:01:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
10:13:44 <ion> https://crypto.cat/ http://tobtu.com/decryptocat.php
10:43:57 -!- nooodl has joined.
10:58:00 -!- Taneb has joined.
11:22:31 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
12:11:23 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje).
12:34:58 -!- conehead has joined.
12:36:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined.
13:17:35 <Phantom_Hoover> for some reason dbelange has an urban dictionary entry
13:20:16 <fizzie> "buy zzo38 mugs & shirts" it is amuse
13:20:32 <fizzie> Sadly there are no statistics as to how many have been bought.
13:20:56 <fizzie> Did you know that: I have one too. (But it's not one I'm very proud of.)
13:22:08 -!- Koen_ has joined.
13:22:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit).
13:22:43 -!- Koen_ has joined.
13:23:10 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:23:13 -!- Koen__ has joined.
13:27:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
13:32:59 -!- katla has joined.
13:44:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined.
13:44:39 -!- mnoqy has joined.
13:48:22 <Phantom_Hoover> i tried 'fizzie' but it just came up with the standard ridiculous sex act
14:02:29 -!- sacje has joined.
14:21:53 <fizzie> Yes, the standard ridiculous sex act is what I meant.
14:22:25 <fizzie> Also "The act of shoving Pop-Rocks (TM) into the male penis via the urethra. [add a video]" please don't add a video
14:34:29 <Deewiant> Why, would you be obliged to watch it because it depicts something named after you, or something?
14:34:56 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think that's a video the world needs to contain
15:02:06 <fizzie> Deewiant: Isn't that how it works? (But also what P_H said.)
15:16:07 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
15:23:58 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:27:07 -!- Taneb has joined.
15:30:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
15:35:42 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!).
16:03:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:09:32 -!- katla has joined.
16:25:42 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
16:28:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
16:31:28 <nooodl> 8j0 ÷ 0j1 gives me 0J0.125. what the shit
16:33:24 <nooodl> oh it's still wrong... how do you mess up complex division, guy who made this
16:34:23 -!- conehead has joined.
16:34:49 <Bike> that's not even a real pun fuck you
16:35:20 <Bike> that wasn't a question!
16:35:24 <Bike> it was a statement< 1372972322 964856 :Gregor!~Gregor@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi
21:12:09 <oerjan> basically glogbot just gives up after some hours each day, it seems
21:12:33 <oerjan> (which you'd, like, expect if the disks are full i guess)
21:21:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:23:55 <itsy> Bags packed ready for Silicon Dreams tomorrow :-)
21:24:15 * itsy hopes they're selling some cool stuff...
21:24:36 <oerjan> is that the electric sheep kind of dreams
21:26:10 <itsy> oerjan: http://www.silicondreams.org.uk no sign of electric sheep :-(
21:44:35 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
21:54:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
22:19:17 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
22:20:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:41:58 <oerjan> dammit i think cabal is breaking because i named by new laptop's user "Ørjan"
22:42:29 <oerjan> it compiles everything fine and then gives invalid byte sequences on the final registrations
22:46:28 <elliott> surprising that they don't handle that, maybe there's an issue for it...
22:47:12 <oerjan> oh no the "new haskell script" shortcut from the file browser isn't there. hm maybe it was actually hugs that made that on my old laptop, way back.
22:48:17 <oerjan> elliott: of course if they _have_ fixed it, i probably cannot install the fixed version D:
22:49:20 <elliott> oerjan: sounds like an excellent time to install linux >:)
23:02:01 <oerjan> right after i get rid of this crippling loss of motivation to do anything involving yak shaving. (except agoran Yaks, they're cool.)
23:03:20 <elliott> clearly what I need to do is bring an ubuntu CD to trondheim.
23:12:22 -!- maddock has joined.
23:23:38 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl.
23:25:19 <Bike> i'm blanking on a clever way to compute x // 2 + x // 4 + x // 8 + ..., help
23:25:35 <Bike> if x = 2^n it's n-1 but that's all i got
23:26:47 <Bike> oh, i guess i can just iterate //2, that's something
23:27:26 <oerjan> what's // and how's its precedence
23:27:43 <Bike> integer division
23:27:58 <Bike> i forget the actual way you write it
23:29:31 <oerjan> presumably depends on language (haskell is `div` or `quot`)
23:29:53 <Bike> tryin' to be all mathy here donchaknow
23:29:58 <Bike> but like 15 // 2 = 7, 16 // 2 = 8, etc
23:30:10 <oerjan> in that case [ x / 2 ] is one way
23:30:35 <Bike> er, i'm guessing [] isn't iverson bracket
23:31:00 <oerjan> except _ideally_ without top horizontal part of brackets
23:31:28 <Bike> er, how's that wor.
23:31:32 <itsy> Bike wouldn't that give a similar result as multiplying by MAXINT-1 and taking the high word of the result? Which might be similar to computing 0-x.
23:32:15 <oerjan> itsy: i think you get trouble with the bits you want to cut off giving carry into the bits you want to keep
23:32:48 <Bike> well like, this(15) = 11 for instance
23:32:59 <Bike> also i'd kind of like to generalize it to bases other than two.
23:33:15 <elliott> oerjan: surely [...] is rounding
23:33:16 <oerjan> ...now you're just being difficult :P
23:33:29 <elliott> or alternatively, doesn't it have to be ceiling as well.
23:33:45 <Bike> well floor(15/2) isn't 11 anyway so i don't get what oerjan meant.
23:33:53 <oerjan> elliott: i vaguely thought it meant floor by default, but you always want
23:34:04 <oerjan> Bike: i mean 15 // 2 = floor (15 / 2)
23:34:05 <elliott> Bike: he meant for denoting integer division
23:34:33 <oerjan> *always want to cut off top or bottom for clarity
23:35:21 <HackEgo> maddock: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:35:23 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_and_ceiling_functions#Notation
23:35:54 <Bike> itsy: i'm not sure what you meant but (x * (2^n)-1) >> n doesn't work
23:36:16 <oerjan> Bike: what i'm thinking is this is sort of a summing of a triangle of bits
23:36:54 <oerjan> elliott: clearly you cannot consider gauss to be _wrong_ hth
23:36:57 <itsy> maybe start with y=1, result=0. If the right bit of x is set then result=result+y. Then shift x right. shift y left and add 1. Then repeat until x=0
23:37:31 <elliott> oerjan: pfft, what's gas but a load of hot air
23:37:54 <elliott> oerjan: kind of bizarre that APL lead to a change in common mathematical notation...
23:38:06 <elliott> for such simple operations
23:38:27 <Bike> well who uses floor and ceiling besides CS people anyway
23:38:34 <Bike> oerjan: btw i have no idea what triangle of bits means
23:38:47 <oerjan> Bike: oh now i see the confusion - the notation _was_ invented by iverson, but it's not what's called "iverson brackets" :P
23:39:02 <Bike> iverson brackets is [foo] = 1 if foo is true, 0 otherwise
23:39:08 <Bike> kinda useful but not like. related.
23:39:24 <elliott> I think Dijkstra liked those
23:39:35 <elliott> though he hated APL I guess
23:39:47 <Bike> dijkstra hated everything, though
23:39:55 <elliott> oh maybe it was Knuth who liked it
23:40:02 <Bike> oh yeah he uses it all the time
23:40:05 <elliott> Bike: yeah but he was cuddly on the inside.
23:40:25 <Bike> so are hedgehogs
23:43:42 <katla> Knuth uses it in his book
23:44:03 <katla> can you express the halting problem as an iversen bracket
23:44:22 <katla> maybe it would have to be two brackets nested
23:45:10 <Bike> H(x) = [x halts]
23:46:28 <katla> what i really wanted was an iverson bracket you cant give the value 0 or 1 to
23:53:06 <Bike> i can't give a value to [is {some set of matrices} mortal] :P
23:53:37 <katla> but that does have a value 0 or 1
23:53:40 <katla> even if we cant find it
23:54:00 <Bike> well an iverson bracket is defined to have a value of 0 or 1.
23:54:07 <Bike> that's just... how it's defined
23:55:00 <elliott> well X = [X = 0] can't be given a value.
23:55:08 <katla> I still think there's some non recursive X I could write [X] and argue that it cant be given as 0 or 1
23:55:50 <Bike> what's the difference between "does have a value [...] even if we cant find it" and "cant be given as 0 or 1"
23:55:52 <katla> and I think you can do it with 2 []'s but not 1
23:56:17 <elliott> I would assume that for any given P you can prove ~([P] <> 0 /\ [P] <> 1)
23:56:21 <katla> Bike i want an actual contradiction from assuming [X] = 0 or [X] = 1
23:56:34 <katla> elliott what if P includes iverson brackets too?
23:56:35 <Bike> well uh, elliott gave that
23:56:45 <elliott> and excluded middle gives [P] = 0 \/ [P] = 1 presumably
23:56:56 <Bike> oh, i thought you meant "recursive" like "computable"
23:56:58 <elliott> yeah, I don't actually know
23:57:06 <Bike> elliott's is just the liar paradox and there are nonrecursive liar paradoxes
23:57:34 <Bike> (quick, how do you do yields falsehood)
23:57:37 <elliott> like, I think the function [-] : Prop -> 2 existing is just equivalent to LEM?
23:58:05 <elliott> to go from that to LEM is easy, you just plug the proposition into the function and then you get either a proof of P or not P by the definition of [-].
23:58:19 <elliott> to go the other way, you define the function by casing on whether the proposition you're given is true or not.