2013-06-01: 00:14:51 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:24 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:24 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:31 -!- atehwa has joined. 00:15:35 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:22:37 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 00:23:37 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:31:42 I wonder if I can get kmc into Rebol... 00:32:16 I think there may be some similarities to Kernel... although I don't quite understand bindology well enough 00:32:42 ('Bindology' being Rebol's fancy term for how binding works) 00:34:38 electrons hth 00:44:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 00:46:48 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:47:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 00:56:31 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:05:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:17:21 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:21:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:29:36 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 01:31:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:33:38 One limitation in SQLite is that extensions cannot add new commands entirely. 01:33:55 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 01:36:02 Maybe it is not such a problem, although it would be nice to be able to create macros. 01:42:48 does anyone here put their browser cache in /tmp 02:06:04 No. 02:06:34 thanks 02:15:47 -!- carado has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:16:42 mmm the bfq io scheduler seems nice 02:18:21 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:18:41 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:19:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:19:32 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:19:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:34 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:38:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:45 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:49:08 `run main = print $ let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 02:49:13 bash: main: command not found 02:49:14 hmm, oops 03:05:37 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:06:13 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:20:44 -!- jconn has joined. 03:23:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:58:40 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:59:35 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 03:59:56 > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 03:59:58 5 04:00:19 Redefines + 04:00:49 I know 04:01:06 I was checking that my code was correct. Was trying to show that in a Rebol chatroom that has a bot that connects to ideone 04:01:10 ideone is downish 04:01:11 > let 5 = 2 + 2 in 5 04:01:12 5 04:01:24 Or was 04:01:28 > let (+) = (Prelude.+) . succ in 2 + 2 04:01:30 5 04:02:25 Wait, I don't know why that works 04:02:32 :t (+) . succ 04:02:33 (Enum b, Num b) => b -> b -> b 04:05:50 "Animation style, alternative to animated GIFs (see sample - works in Internet Explorer with plugin; also see tile-test)" 04:06:18 Yes, we should all install a REBOL plugin into our browsers to see animated graphics. 04:06:52 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:09:54 mnoqy: i hugged kmc today "ur next" hth 04:10:21 (Except for the whole part where you don't want hugs? So I guess not.) 04:12:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:14:21 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:15:02 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 04:15:09 * Lymia looks up Rebol 04:15:20 Is this, like, a Lisp that actually uses M-expressions!? 04:16:06 I don't know what M-expressions were actually like, but I'm going to say probably not 04:17:04 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:17:23 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:17:45 -!- aloril has joined. 04:17:53 -!- rntz has joined. 04:18:35 Precedence for bare-word operators... 04:19:30 This looks to be... a language that probably has very messy semantics. 04:22:42 Some things are messy, but I think some things are nice 04:32:33 is that "sgeo wisdom" 04:32:41 Sgeo_: can I have more "sgeo wisdom" 04:36:50 random/only ["yes" "no"] 04:49:24 > (,) . succ $ 1 1 04:49:25 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 04:53:09 :t (,) . succ 04:53:10 Enum b => b -> b1 -> (b, b1) 04:54:25 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 04:55:45 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Client Quit). 05:00:17 > ((,) . succ $ 1 1) :: (Int, Int) 05:00:18 Couldn't match expected type `(GHC.Types.Int, GHC.Types.Int)' 05:00:19 ... 05:00:51 Wait, I think I know why it doesn't work >_< 05:00:59 > ((,) . succ) 1 1 05:01:00 (2,1) 05:02:42 I guess I still don't know haskell 05:03:12 > ((,) (. succ)) 1 1 05:03:13 The function `(,)' is applied to three arguments, 05:03:13 but its type `a0 -> b0 -... 05:04:04 :t succ . (+) 05:04:05 (Enum (a -> a), Num a) => a -> a -> a 05:05:52 Yeah, of course that doesn't make sense 05:06:38 what are you trying to do exactly 05:16:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:13 Nothing 05:19:20 > Nothing 05:19:22 Nothing 05:19:54 -!- Bike has joined. 05:36:01 If no one wrote an irc:// scheme for REBOL, maybe I should 05:37:53 Maybe 06:16:22 mnoqy hlelo 06:17:48 hi shachaf 06:38:18 mnoqy: woow 07:02:23 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:02:08 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:51:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:54:45 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 09:18:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:29:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:31:07 Vorpal: Speaking of high-resolution monitors, Asus has just announced a 31.5" 3840x2160 (aka "4K") computer monitor -- that's 140 dpi, even if it's kind of overly big for many desktops. (Also it's probably going to cost a lot.) 09:35:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:51:08 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:54:57 -!- variable has joined. 09:55:10 -!- tswett_ has joined. 09:55:14 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 09:55:39 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:55:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:55:48 -!- tswett has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:56:11 -!- rntz has joined. 10:22:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:27:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:27:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:29:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:29:27 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 11:17:29 -!- carado has joined. 11:19:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:32:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:23:14 So, this spam claiming to be from FedEx has a subject line FedEx!!! 12:23:28 It's as though FedEx is really excited about itself 12:42:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:53:33 !!!!!! 12:59:37 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 13:15:19 -!- itsy has joined. 13:42:01 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130601-electricity-is-fun.png 13:49:09 aw. 13:52:11 (It's what they have in Denmark, I understand.) 13:57:23 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:57:31 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:02:03 FedExcited 14:09:23 I should watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail 14:21:58 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:22:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:22:49 happy duplicate australian mailman list reminder day 14:23:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:24:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:24:50 http://i.imgur.com/PL8ricO.jpg 14:25:21 oerjan: huh, I got no australian reminders. just actual reminders. 14:26:29 wait, agora-* aren't australian? 14:27:06 hm i guess it doesn't count if they're dated june 1 14:27:07 oerjan: oh well sure. but it's not an australian reminder unless it comes a day early. 14:27:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:27:14 -!- augur has joined. 14:27:19 I wonder why the australian list stopped sending reminders 14:27:26 ok then. but you also got a duplicate? 14:27:37 nope. strange. 14:27:43 or if I did then gmail lost the other 14:28:31 i didn't get one from yoyo, but i got one from yzma.clarkk.net and one from agoranomic.org, with the same named lists but in different order. 14:29:06 the lists themselves were @agoranomic.org in both cases. 14:30:30 oerjan: ah. presumably because the lists moved recently 14:30:38 from taral to comex 14:30:48 also, my back hurts with my laptop sitting on the sofa table :( 14:31:00 ok 14:31:08 laptop tip: there is no comfortable way to use a laptop 14:31:49 ...it worked well enough when sitting on the table of my old apartment, which was essentially a workbench 14:32:10 and of comfortable height with an ordinary chair 14:32:30 have you tried putting it on your lap hth 14:32:50 yes. yesterday it got too hot for that, but i guess it hasn't warmed up yet. 14:32:53 laptop tip: laptip?? 14:33:38 oh and i think i'll have to wait until i've finished my breakfast. 14:34:21 anyway, i hope my initial hate for all the little annoying details of my new apartment subsides soon. 14:35:10 it of course does have that one huge pro: no housemates! 14:35:10 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 14:35:19 hey i was just about to ask about those. 14:36:31 otoh there's still construction work in the area, the fridge is (still) noisy, and some neighbor apparently has a dog. 14:38:07 is this the same fridge, or do you have a fridge ghost haunting you 14:38:19 fridge ghost, clearly. 14:38:29 me too. 14:38:40 i am clearly having some kind of mystical attraction to noise hth 14:41:33 it's called "the law of attraction" in mystical circles. it says that you attract things you are passionate about, whether positively or negatively. at least i hope it includes positively as well. 14:42:58 what if you are passionate about not being attracted? 14:43:28 then you're james randi and ruin the experience for everyone else hth 14:44:21 also, that's the obvious reason why science cannot prove this law hth (yes, i know of the other obvious reason) 14:48:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:48:32 hexham attracts hexham 14:50:00 Hi 14:57:27 elliott: you may be delighted to know that yesterday IE got so t(h)rashy on my usual newspaper comic site that i actually installed google chrome. you may not be delighted that it didn't really help, and that the site itself is so trashy that many of the links (randomly) didn't work in chrome. 14:59:49 not that they _always_ work in IE either. especially the "like" button sometimes hangs up. 15:01:32 oerjan: today chrome, tomorrow netbsd on toasters. 15:01:54 alas i don't have a toaster. 15:02:09 yes, you know it's really bad when you start buying them just to run netbsd on them. 15:02:28 ...you have a kettle right? i understand americans don't have the kinds of kettles we have and this disturbs me 15:02:53 My monitor keeps turning off and on 15:03:02 yes but i never use it and also haven't moved it over from the old apartment yet. 15:03:21 you know what's great? toasters. highly recommended 15:03:44 I remember having the kettle discussion before. As far as I'm aware, a kettle is a thing that whistles when water is boiling 15:04:12 Sgeo_, those exists, but so do electric kettles 15:04:19 Which just turn themselves off 15:04:21 technically there may be a toaster in my store of things from the old house which i cannot bear even thinking about and don't you start like my dad who is purely by chance coming here tomorrow 15:04:57 Taneb, but how will you know when your water is done boiling? 15:04:57 ...your dad is a fan of toasters? 15:05:09 Sgeo_, it sort of clicks 15:05:11 wait, it has to whistle? then i probably don't have one. 15:05:13 And a light goes off 15:05:18 no it doesn't have to whistle 15:05:21 if it whistles you have the wrong kind 15:05:28 it is generally kettle-shaped, though. 15:05:43 the right kind is nice and reassuring and is part of the elite group of appliances that have soft power cords. 15:05:47 but no soft power chords. 15:07:00 finest alumin(i)um, i suspect, which is why it wasn't brought over because somehow there was an impression the new apartment had an induction stove but it doesn't anyhow. 15:07:41 hm laundry 15:09:45 it should be finest plastic 15:10:00 i fear only Taneb truly understands kettles here 15:10:22 Wait, you can actually afford aluminum stuff? Isn't that insanely expensive? 15:11:09 what 15:11:13 elliott, one of my friends has the wrong kind, but he also has an AGA cooker so it is okay 15:11:24 Taneb: i'm busy trying to understand Sgeo_'s statement 15:11:26 * Sgeo_ was vaguely trying to pretend to be from the past 15:11:52 elliott, it was addressed at oerjan 15:12:43 http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/elements/features/2010/blogging_the_periodic_table/aluminum_it_used_to_be_more_precious_than_gold.html etc etc 15:14:50 elliott: i don't think my dad uses toasters much. 15:15:18 elliott, can you help me learn Agda 15:15:32 Taneb: not really 15:15:37 Okay 15:15:38 i'm better at coq myself 15:15:42 oerjan, can you? 15:15:57 Taneb: just put types everywhere, and values in the types hth 15:16:03 * oerjan doesn't know agda 15:17:30 i do recall something about napoleon (I or III?) getting awesome aluminum plates 15:18:50 Article said that Napoleon III gave aluminum cutlery for guests, with gold cutlery being the lesser cutlery 15:19:03 " and the minor emperor Napoleon III reserved a prized set of aluminum cutlery for special guests at banquets. (Less favored guests used gold knives and forks.) " 15:19:09 ah. 15:19:15 There. I should do that instead of trying to rephrase 15:20:46 napoleon iii was quite a guy. 15:23:41 Sgeo_, fun fact, in dwarf fortress aluminium is as valuable as platinum 15:24:36 (doesn't aluminium look kind of drab when used for cutlery?) 15:26:10 you'd think 15:26:50 -!- 2JTAABS63 has joined. 15:27:37 ""Above all, people adored Element 13's color and luster, which reminded them of the sparkle of gold and silver—a brand-new precious metal." 15:27:48 which means "no", i think. 15:28:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:28:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:29:07 hmm 15:29:29 maybe it's some modern surfacing thing they do that makes it look dull grey rather than actually shiny 15:29:35 -!- 2JTAABS63 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:33:35 i was going to click the vanadium article, but it opens in a new window even with ctrl 15:34:04 which is of course a deadly sin (while opening in a new window without ctrl is only a grievous one.) 15:34:04 i love vanadium because i can never remember anything whatsoever of interest about it 15:34:16 Try right-click and open in new tab? 15:34:21 which is pretty much why i wanted to click on it 15:34:55 Sgeo_: there's not actually a real link, it's flash 15:35:12 gold cutlery seems kind of tacky 15:35:43 Oh, I didn't even notice the little period table. Have Flash set to click-to-play 15:35:45 that's the point hth 15:36:34 * oerjan finds a proper link to it 15:37:05 little houses on the hillside, little houses made of gold 15:37:20 wait 15:37:22 *boxes 15:37:37 hmm, i forgot that sea squirts obsessively hoard it 15:37:42 clearly they know something i don't 15:37:59 when the sea squirts have enough, we're doomed 15:38:27 no, they've just anticipated peak vanadium 15:40:19 ah blood 15:40:35 but beware of the sea squirt vampires 15:44:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:45:01 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 15:45:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:45:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:56:54 -!- conehead has joined. 16:07:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:24:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:32:45 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:42:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:44:15 -!- Bike has joined. 16:57:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:14:33 The Court Jester or Monty Python and the Holy Grail? 17:17:23 Monty Court and the Holy Jester. 17:17:45 That's when you set up your 3D system so that you get one movie on left eye and the other on right. 17:18:33 Sgeo_: The Court Jester hth 17:19:06 Bike: should i watch _Singin' in the Rain_ 17:22:54 yes 17:23:41 do you just answer yes to everything..............! 17:24:08 basically 17:27:07 well then i guess i shouldn nt take movie adviçe from you!! 17:29:00 fungot: Movie adviçe please. 17:29:01 fizzie: i've been somewhat frustrated on my first tries. i get this thing start installing, i'll come back to fnord 17:29:11 Okay, take your time. 17:29:25 fungot: what about plan 9 from outer space? 17:29:26 oerjan: i haven't tried it out in usenet for all to despise." with no bindings is valid.) comic 17 is fnord, young skywalker" 17:29:42 fungot: well usenet is almost dead anyway. 17:29:43 oerjan: better still, haven't you got can't you make it ' x 3 works. 17:29:54 oh oh i know 17:30:09 Bike: should i watch Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 17:30:20 No, Taneb should. 17:30:26 ok 17:30:33 should i watch _Nora's Hair Salon_ 17:31:24 Refer to previous mesage. 17:32:56 I should make a comparison thing between Rebol and Kernel to try to convince kmc to look at it >.> 17:33:08 And maybe not mention it before I do so 17:34:21 Make sure it has affine types. 17:34:26 damn, camino browser has ceased developmenr 17:36:11 shachaf: spoiler: nora dies 17:36:38 oh nora 17:36:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:40:22 Guy in Rebol chat is raving about SpaceChem as an educational tool 17:40:33 (raving in a good way) 17:41:55 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:42:04 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:42:20 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:42:31 rave on 17:42:36 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:42:39 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:43:48 r̈av̈e 17:57:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:58:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:07 r̈äv̈ë 17:59:36 sorry? I can't understand you 18:03:31 ŕāv̄è 18:11:49 fjällrävän 18:13:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:14:02 -!- augur has joined. 18:23:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:25:33 -!- surma has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:33 -!- ssue_ has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:34 -!- abumirqaan has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:36 -!- iamcal__ has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:37 -!- ggherdov has quit (K-Lined). 18:25:48 wtf 18:26:55 ok they're all on that irccloud.com thing except surma 18:28:01 `seen ggherdov 18:28:08 not lately; try `seen ggherdov ever 18:28:11 `seen ggherdov eve 18:28:16 not lately; try `seen ggherdov ever 18:28:18 `seen ggherdov ever 18:28:24 2013-03-31 20:12:10: oerjan: thankyou! 18:28:42 i suppose they were collateral damage 18:31:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:31:56 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 18:32:33 -!- ggherdov has joined. 18:32:38 -!- surma has joined. 18:33:10 perhaps someone klined everyone matching uid* 18:33:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:34:37 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 18:34:58 -!- ssue_ has joined. 18:36:54 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 18:37:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:37:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:38:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:39:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:39:32 -!- yonkie has joined. 18:39:56 Saw this in another channel 18:39:57 http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-schools-teach-screenwriters-not-to-pass-the-bechdel-test/ 18:40:02 Don't know how real that is 18:44:31 -!- phamiltiz has joined. 18:45:16 -!- abumirqaan has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 18:48:28 http://pastebin.com/v1kbjhBS 18:48:52 Can this be made shorter in an esoteric lang? 18:49:13 Input: http://pastebin.com/uwbmWGSz 18:50:13 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:51:19 My perl script produces this output: http://pastebin.com/pnpsUgu5 18:52:11 How short can it be made in any Lang? :D 18:55:00 well, it can be as short as 0 bytes 18:55:08 given a suitable interpreter 18:55:29 0 bytes would not achieve the goal 18:55:34 why not? 18:55:53 You need code in order to run something 18:56:20 just have an interpreter that interprets an empty string to do whatever your script does. 18:56:27 it's a language in which the empty program is defined to do exactly what you want of course 18:56:39 The point is not to use my script at all 18:56:49 so why do you want to implement it 18:57:09 I want to see if it can be made shorter in an esoteric Lang 18:57:22 as said, of course 18:57:23 i think it could make it shorten in _perl_, anyhow 18:57:27 *i could 18:57:35 *shorter 18:57:57 And in say haskell? 18:58:02 I think you mean "can it be made shorter in an esolang that also does other (possibly) useful stuff" 18:58:08 What Lang could you make it shortest 18:58:22 well the language suggested earlier of course 18:58:41 Which? 18:59:00 but I think the length of your program will depend more on /how/ you write the code in this situation 18:59:43 Well it must generate the same output 18:59:46 hm haskell could be short if we assumed that exact format 19:00:20 phamiltiz: the one where the empty program does what the script does. 19:01:02 Well if you removed all of the redundant statements and white-space, and made all identifiers really short (and eliminated all redundant identifiers), it would be shorter 19:01:30 nvm what's in the parenthesis, not always/usually correct 19:01:58 Least amount of chars 19:02:02 Code golf 19:02:03 :t stripPrefix 19:02:04 Eq a => [a] -> [a] -> Maybe [a] 19:02:31 you can probably do that with unix tools in in a line or two of line noise, i imagine 19:02:51 You mean bash? 19:03:07 Well if you want to golf you might use something like Burlesque I guess, great language for that 19:03:07 :t map (head &&& length) group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . drop 2 . words) . lines 19:03:08 Couldn't match expected type `b0 -> c0' with actual type `[b1]' 19:03:08 In the return type of a call of `map' 19:03:08 Probable cause: `map' is applied to too many arguments 19:03:11 bah 19:03:21 or golfscript maybe 19:03:31 :t map (stripPrefix "username:" . drop 2 . words) . lines 19:03:33 Couldn't match expected type `Char' with actual type `String' 19:03:33 Expected type: String -> [Char] 19:03:33 Actual type: String -> [String] 19:03:34 ruby seems to be popular too 19:04:09 phamiltiz: probably sed 19:04:41 :t map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:04:42 String -> [Maybe [Char]] 19:05:02 :t map (head &&& length) group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:05:03 Couldn't match expected type `b0 -> c0' with actual type `[b1]' 19:05:03 In the return type of a call of `map' 19:05:03 Probable cause: `map' is applied to too many arguments 19:05:47 :t catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:05:48 String -> [[Char]] 19:05:54 :t sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:05:55 String -> [[Char]] 19:06:05 :t group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:06:06 String -> [[[Char]]] 19:06:21 :t map (head &&& length) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines 19:06:22 String -> [([Char], Int)] 19:06:35 oerjan, what are you doing? 19:06:49 he's writing your script in haskell. 19:07:21 But how is he importing the input? 19:07:33 Testing the input rather 19:07:48 haven't got to that part yet 19:07:54 I see :) 19:08:36 > map (head &&& length) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines $ "1.Vote (from:minestatus username:zsamkj address:174.1.** timeStamp:2012-04-30 20:10:51 -0700)\n2.Vote (from:minestatus username:revolutionxx2 address:50.129.** timeStamp:2012-04-30 20:11:02 -0700)" 19:08:37 [("revolutionxx2",1),("zsamkj",1)] 19:09:43 The problem now would be to test all the 30 lines of input 19:10:00 well yes, can't get that into lambdabot easily 19:10:18 Ideone 19:10:58 Ideone you can place input 19:12:31 :t mapM_ putStrLn . map (\s -> head s ++ " occurs->" ++ show (length s)) (head &&& length) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines =<< getContents 19:12:32 Couldn't match expected type `b0 -> [String]' 19:12:32 with actual type `[b1]' 19:12:32 In the return type of a call of `map' 19:12:38 oops 19:12:48 :t mapM_ putStrLn . map (\s -> head s ++ " occurs->" ++ show (length s)) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines =<< getContents 19:12:49 IO () 19:15:22 gah cutting and pasting from irc isn't nice 19:15:55 XD 19:16:29 i cannot manage to edit the form after pasting wrongly :( 19:16:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:17:15 i assume it's because i'm on IE 8, oh well. 19:18:28 Lol 19:18:37 Edit what form? 19:18:42 ideone 19:18:58 Click input 19:19:03 And paste your input 19:19:27 phamiltiz: the thing is pasting from irc doesn't get it correctly formatted and it wasn't a whole program anyway. 19:20:29 oerjan > map (head &&& length) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines $ "1.Vote (from:minestatus username:zsamkj address:174.1.** timeStamp:2012-04-30 20:10:51 -0700)\n2.Vote (from:minestatus username:revolutionxx2 address:50.129.** timeStamp:2012-04-30 20:11:02 -0700)" 19:20:34 That doesn't? 19:20:55 ...we already tested that with lambdabot 19:21:31 What doesn't get formatted correctly? 19:21:43 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:21:48 Because I sent you the input on pastebin? 19:22:35 n%{' '/2=9>}%:x.|${0):0': '@.x\`{=}+,,' occurs->'\n}% 19:22:37 why not download the raw paste to lambdabot and just run the haskell locally. 19:22:40 my golfscript submission 19:23:29 Bike: because lambdabot doesn't support downloading hth 19:23:39 No chance understanding that golf script 19:23:43 Does it even work 19:23:47 it does 19:24:05 oh, right, i meant hack ego. 19:24:11 w/e they're all practically the same fucking bot 19:24:16 i'll make an explanation thingy 19:24:19 it's pretty cool 19:24:54 :D 19:25:05 phamiltiz: i managed to submit it but it's never finishing compiling 19:25:39 my guess is it has finished but my browser hasn't noticed 19:25:46 Lol 19:25:50 Use chrome 19:26:19 -!- olsner has joined. 19:27:20 nooodl_ how does your golf script take input? 19:27:38 from stdin. there's no other way 19:27:55 In .txt file format? 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov has joined. 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov has joined. 19:28:00 yup 19:28:07 Oh I see :D 19:28:16 That's pretty good then 19:28:20 i have too many tabs open to close IE, and too little memory on this old laptop to open chrome (which, accidentally, i only installed yesterday) 19:28:31 Lol 19:28:49 however i have another way 19:29:19 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs 19:29:25 2013-06-01 19:29:24 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs [200/200] -> "test.hs" [1] 19:29:30 Nooodl_ so how does your golf script work 19:29:37 IE fails to close if you have too many tabs open? 19:29:44 `run ghc --make test.hs 19:29:49 ​[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( test.hs, test.o ) \ \ test.hs:2:80: Not in scope: `group' \ \ test.hs:2:95: Not in scope: `catMaybes' \ \ test.hs:2:112: Not in scope: `stripPrefix' 19:30:13 olsner: no, but i don't want to reopen all of them afterwards. 19:30:18 oh 19:30:24 no wonder it doesn't compile 19:30:44 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs 19:30:47 2013-06-01 19:30:46 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs [213/213] -> "test.hs.1" [1] 19:31:02 `run mv test.hs{.1,} 19:31:05 No output. 19:31:07 `run ghc --make test.hs 19:31:09 http://bpaste.net/raw/oBwty2rsVEjLEHxO4SGu/ 19:31:10 ​[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( test.hs, test.o ) \ \ test.hs:2:80: Not in scope: `group' \ \ test.hs:2:95: Not in scope: `catMaybes' 19:31:16 wtf 19:31:42 `rm test.hs 19:31:45 No output. 19:31:46 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs 19:31:48 2013-06-01 19:31:47 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/test.hs [250/250] -> "test.hs" [1] 19:31:49 `run ghc --make test.hs 19:32:17 ​[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( test.hs, test.o ) \ Linking test ... 19:32:21 this is the point where HackEgo dies, obvio... oh. 19:32:34 in the final block i've just displayed the stack 19:33:22 goddamn you websites _no sane person_ wants links to open in a new window by default! 19:33:59 `fetch http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz 19:34:02 2013-06-01 19:34:00 URL:http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz [2916] -> "raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz" [1] 19:34:05 -!- itsy has joined. 19:34:10 oerjan: Especially if you make it the left button for same window and middle button for new window 19:34:28 `run ./test <'raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz' 19:34:30 Anonymous occurs->2 \ Baglex occurs->1 \ M3thud occurs->1 \ Mitzuki_Tsukashi occurs->1 \ Mo_Digger occurs->1 \ Organtrail occurs->1 \ RiceKnight occurs->1 \ Ryan2823 occurs->1 \ VolitionEos occurs->1 \ XxDarkAngel_xX occurs->1 \ counto1 occurs->1 \ dude1576 occurs->1 \ hungoverfurball occurs->1 \ jamesus occurs->2 \ jonathanklarlund occurs->1 \ kua 19:34:44 phamiltiz: looks good :) 19:34:58 `fetch http://www.golfscript.com/golfscript/golfscript.rb 19:35:00 2013-06-01 19:34:59 URL:http://www.golfscript.com/golfscript/golfscript.rb [8834/8834] -> "golfscript.rb" [1] 19:35:28 `echo "n%{' '/2=9>}%:x.|${0):0': '@.x\`{=}+,,' occurs->'\n}%" > test.gs 19:35:30 ​"n%{' '/2=9>}%:x.|${0):0': '@.x\`{=}+,,' occurs->'\n}%" > test.gs 19:35:47 `run echo "n%{' '/2=9>}%:x.|${0):0': '@.x\`{=}+,,' occurs->'\n}%" > test.gs 19:35:49 bash: n%{' '/2=9>}%:x.|${0):0': '@.x\`{=}+,,' occurs->'\n}%: bad substitution 19:35:53 oh right 19:35:54 fucking bash 19:36:17 `fetch http://bpaste.net/raw/C76Falgtu390Rz4jmqW6/ 19:36:19 2013-06-01 19:36:18 URL:http://bpaste.net/raw/C76Falgtu390Rz4jmqW6/ [53/53] -> "index.html" [1] 19:36:52 `run ruby golfscript.rb index.html <'raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz' 19:36:54 bash: ruby: command not found 19:36:57 haha ok 19:37:08 fancy 19:37:10 `run rm index.html golfscript.rb 19:37:14 No output. 19:37:53 Is golfscript written in ruby? 19:37:57 anyway i declare this to have reached the "it's possible" step where mathematicians customarily go back to bed 19:39:02 or in my case, to the fridge hth 19:40:09 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:42:22 J is a language for the mathematicians 19:42:54 and/or banks 19:43:39 do banks SERIOUSLY use j 19:44:40 "Cognos · Bayesian Enhanced Strategic Trading · Fax Focus, Inc. · Hewlett Packard · Intel · Korea Telecom · Luen Thai · Maple Partners · Microsoft · Niagara Mohawk Power · Nikko Securities · Novell · Okada Denki Co. Ltd. · Pivotal Technologies · Syngenesis, Inc." 19:44:47 one or more of those are possibly banks or bankoids 19:45:49 those are all just categories in the functor of endobankoids 19:47:02 * itsy wonders how to contact Darkman 19:47:45 the dark signal 19:49:27 Obvious now you mention it. I've wasted so much time with the bat signal :-( 19:54:43 the problem with the dark signal is, it's dark hth 19:55:22 although ironically, bats can "see" it just fine. 19:56:44 I assume Darkman can "see" it too? 19:57:00 According to legend he was bitten by a bat. 19:57:16 if he's a bat. since batman is dark, it stands to reason darkman would be bat. 20:08:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:40:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 21.0/20130511120803]). 20:40:14 oerjan: http://olist.com/ 20:40:23 (No update.) 20:40:54 o. list... 20:40:59 "OEvolve: OEvolve is an e-mail list for Objectivists and others interested in the proper application of evolutionary principles to diet, fitness, and health. Its purpose is to facilitate discussion about the practical sciences of cooking, nutrition, fitness, health, and more. " haha, what 20:44:03 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:52:48 As long as they don't start applying 'evolutionary principles' to morality... oh wait 20:52:58 Sigh, I *still* haven't found a good RSS reader. 20:53:09 Suggestions? 20:53:40 I'm going to keep using Google Reader until the day it closes. 20:57:30 * itsy is still using Google Reader 20:57:38 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:57:42 I wonder if there's a decent RSS reader for Android 20:58:24 * pikhq_ checks to see if Liferea stopped sucking. 20:58:30 And yeah, I'm using Google Reader too. 20:59:58 Oh sweet, Liferea stopped sucking. 21:00:04 pikhq_: My father switched from Google Reader to Feedly. 21:00:09 pikhq_: He says it's good. 21:06:41 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:08:35 very stupid name, though 21:08:42 sounds like someone trying to market an std 21:08:47 If I ask for help learning Agda in #agda, will they be annoyed 21:08:54 Grah 21:08:56 incredibly 21:08:57 I saw "Intel launches Haswell processors:" 21:09:02 And misread it as Haskell 21:09:06 Sgeo_, same, multiple times 21:09:36 Taneb: I imagine that you'll be much less annoying than some people who've asked for help before. 21:19:03 the haskell groundswell 21:20:13 Taneb already knows another language where you can be annoying in the type system 21:32:29 In Agda you can be annoying in the same way at every level. 21:41:19 marvelous 21:57:16 -!- itsy has joined. 22:00:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:04:33 -!- elieser224 has joined. 22:04:40 -!- elieser224 has left. 22:08:40 Is there a better way to do this? var dt = new Date(); if (new Date(2013,5,3) <= dt && dt <= new Date(2013,5,6)) { ... stuff ... } 22:09:23 i smell an uninitialized date comparison hth 22:09:46 i was guessing date without parameters gave you the present date 22:09:49 Doesn't new Date() give today's date? 22:09:51 ah. 22:10:09 i wouldn't know 22:11:14 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:11:46 although looking at the current date, i suspect if (false) would be an appropriate rephrasing hth >:) 22:13:00 (don't mind me, i don't know the language so i wouldn't know if it has a better idiom) 22:13:30 -!- carado has joined. 22:13:50 that is, i doubt there's a better way that works across all C-lookalikes. 22:13:51 oerjan: itsy is writing unit tests for his time machine hth 22:13:57 shachaf: ooh 22:15:07 At least Chrome no longer gets angry if I change the system date while it's open. 22:15:40 chronochrome 22:16:28 chronochrom 22:17:23 This is better! var dt = new Date(); if (new Date(2013,5,3) < dt && dt < new Date(2013,5,7)) { ... stuff ... } 22:18:33 (since the date object also stores the time) 22:19:01 Presumably those mean different things, in that case? 22:19:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:19:52 new Date(2013,5,6) sets the time to midnight in the new date object. 22:20:20 new Date() get's today's date, including the time. 22:21:03 Right. Checking x <= 6 isn't the same as checking x < 7, when x can be 6.5. 22:21:04 Comparing for equality also includes the time... 22:22:41 I'm happy with it now :-) (Apart from Javascript's stupid 0 = January, 1 = February thing) 22:23:39 "But it was that same internet that directly led to his imprisonment a year ago next month." -- BBC News website 22:29:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:40 0-based month numbers have a long pedigree. (At least it doesn't do the 113 = year 2013 thing.) 22:34:49 -!- phamiltiz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:12 ifMUD does make 113 if you are at year 2013. 22:37:09 Things that get implemented as thin things over the C/POSIX "struct tm" sometimes do. 22:37:31 I think ifMUD is written in Perl, though. 22:41:00 Perl localtime/gmtime elements "come straight out of the C `struct tm'" (perldoc -f localtime), too. 22:57:36 @quote 2017 22:57:36 cmccann says: I still kind of expect that the next standard will be haskell2017 or something, and all it will do is a minor change to lexical syntax of comments that fixes nothing but nevertheless 22:57:36 breaks 20% of hackage. 22:57:48 @quoerjan 22:57:48 Unknown command, try @list 22:57:51 @where quoerjan 22:57:51 I know nothing about quoerjan. 22:57:57 @where+ quoerjan @quote oerjan 22:57:58 I will never forget. 22:58:04 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 22:58:05 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 22:59:00 i think that's the only one 23:00:01 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:01 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 23:00:02 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:02 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:03 [A 23:00:03 [A 23:00:03 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 23:00:03 oerjan says: so does this mean that a comonad is like a wildlife preserve on an island in a sea of nuclear waste? 23:00:06 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:06 oerjan says: @. read run (\s -> s ++ show s) "@. read run (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 23:00:08 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:08 oerjan says: hotsmack 23:00:10 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:11 oerjan says: hotsmack 23:00:13 @@ @@ @where quoerjan 23:00:13 oerjan says: @. read run (\s -> s ++ show s) "@. read run (\\s -> s ++ show s) " 23:00:25 @@ (@@ @where quoerjan) worries 23:00:26 oerjan says: hotsmack worries 23:00:29 Er. 23:00:36 @@ @@ (@where quoerjan) worries 23:00:37 oerjan says: 'N' :( 'o' :) " worries" 23:00:54 ooh there are others 23:03:28 http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/51a8edc369bedd1f5600000a-780-586/screen%20shot%202013-05-31%20at%202.36.05%20pm.png nasty 23:04:44 @@ @@ @where quonochrom 23:04:44 monochrom says: no, you're thinking imperatively. when thinking functionally, you just worry one element, and let recursion worry the rest 23:04:45 @@ @@ @where quonochrom 23:04:45 @@ @@ @where quonochrom 23:04:45 monochrom says: "mechanical layout" means the robot had to know this layout in order to mechanically enter stuff through the keyboard. "but why through the keyboard, why not through USB?" you ask. 23:04:45 @@ @@ @where quonochrom 23:04:45 well, 20 years ago, there was no USB, and overall robot-to-computer interfaces were pretty crude, full of mechanical layouts"mechanical layout" means the robot had to know this layout in order to 23:04:45 mechanically 23:04:45 monochrom says: no, you're thinking imperatively. when thinking functionally, you just worry one element, and let recursion worry the rest 23:04:46 monochrom says: the selfish program's motive is to fool the programmer 23:06:52 well motorola finally invented the edible password: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/31/motorola_tattoo_pill_authentication/ 23:07:06 heegan 23:07:17 hichaf 23:08:08 kmc: http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/51a8edc369bedd1f5600000a-780-586/screen%20shot%202013-05-31%20at%202.36.05%20pm.png cool industry huh 23:08:42 idgi 23:09:00 kmc: i realized today that the thing you would work on at mozilla is a web application 23:09:11 shachaf: lol 23:09:28 browsers are considered systems programming now, get w/ the times 23:09:38 the webbiest web application of all 23:10:09 http://nationaldayofhacking.info/ 23:11:00 http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=29818 23:11:09 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:11:42 Oh, your link is better. 23:14:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:15:25 shachaf: wow 23:15:39 palo alt. toon line 23:16:00 The city will also set up a "Tech Farmers Market," where instead of farm-to-table goods, there will be ideas-to-minds concepts. 23:17:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:17:40 -!- amca has joined. 23:22:48 -!- kmc has set topic: Ideas-to-minds concepts | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | There exist Turing machines that halt in some models of ZFC, but not others.. 23:24:02 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 23:24:21 -!- elieser2241 has left. 23:29:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:37:09 :t associate 23:37:10 Not in scope: `associate' 23:37:15 @hoogle associate 23:37:15 No results found 23:37:35 hoogledy-poogledy 23:38:27 i was wondering about what it was in http://stackoverflow.com/a/16552361 23:39:31 oh hm it's probably \((x,y),z) -> (x,(y,z)) 23:39:48 Yes. 23:39:56 I've seen that called that before. 23:40:28 zzo38: i think that way of formulating Reader and Writer (co)monads might interest you 23:40:40 maybe it works for more categories 23:41:56 @tell zzo38 Interesting formulation of Reader and Writer (co)monads in http://stackoverflow.com/a/16552361 23:41:56 Consider it noted. 23:42:30 ?clear-messages 23:42:30 Messages cleared. 23:43:16 zzo38: let's hope nobody else had sent you messages 23:43:38 I don't care. 23:44:06 *gasp* 23:44:48 I do know about that kind of reader/writer monads and the related comonads which use the other datatype, called env and trace. 23:45:14 zzo38: i was more pointing at the use of comonoid" 23:45:21 *"comonoid" 23:46:43 "--that is because CCCs are boring!" what's a CCC 23:46:55 cartesian closed category, i think 23:47:15 either that or cocartesian coclosed cocategory.................... 23:47:31 is coclosedness openness 23:47:48 is coclopenness clopenness 23:47:55 also is that the most awkward word to spell of all words 23:47:57 yes 23:48:04 Well, yes you get that "CoMonoid" automatically and that is one way to do it, although you don't need. 23:48:19 is a cocartesian product a cartesian coproduct 23:48:29 basically a category where Hom(A,B) is also an object, and you can do function applicationy things 23:49:17 zzo38: i was thinking that maybe it meant you could define the (co)monads more generally than in a ccc if you had comonoids 23:49:39 also can somebody explain the last part of the topic to me 23:49:53 so Hask is a CCC? 23:50:26 oerjan: Maybe; I don't know. 23:50:27 nooodl_: more or less. there might be something fishy about bottoms in there. 23:50:37 imo bottom sucks 23:50:57 I swear I read an explanation about models as pertains to computability theory once 23:51:03 is () the terminal object in Hask 23:51:27 it's actually (17,"Hello Wrold") but that's a common misconception 23:51:32 is coclopenness clopenness <-- imo yes 23:51:49 imoerjan yes 23:51:54 Bike: that's not an object in Hask!!! 23:52:13 your mom isn't an object in hask 23:52:42 i suppose lack of terminal objects is one thing that breaks ccc 23:52:47 kmc: maybe you could have a model where the sum of all integers exist, and then have a turing machine that sums all integers. i dunno 23:52:53 i think it needs products too 23:53:26 Bike: it's more subtle than that 23:53:34 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Hask#Hask_is_not_Cartesian_closed ew 23:53:55 oerjan: thinking is hard 23:54:01 (->) has 0 as an initial object and () as final object. Therefore you can make the corresponding comonad/monad too. You also have a tensor category because it is (***). Actual programs in Haskell aren't so ideal, due to various reasons. 23:55:51 kmc: the halting problem means there are TMs which zfc cannot prove whether they halt or not; by godel's completeness theorem there are ZFC models in which each are true statements. 23:56:05 -!- elieser224 has joined. 23:56:11 -!- elieser224 has left. 23:58:37 kmc: afaik that's both what i thought from before and what was recently discussed in the channel 23:59:23 although the channel discussions seemed to devolve into confusion about the meaning of truth and proof in this case 2013-06-02: 00:00:18 (i only logbrowsed them) 00:04:55 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:16:40 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:13 Bike: If you sum all integers, like with many sums, the result would depend on how you pair things up 00:25:23 If you pair the negatives with the positives you'd just get 0 00:26:12 oerjan: hm I think the first half of that is more due to incompleteness than due to halting theorem, though I guess they are pretty related 00:26:48 like, the TM that comes to mind is one which searches for a proof or disproof of a statement which is true but not provable in zfc 00:26:53 but maybe there are others 00:27:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:27:58 find paradoxes in things that know how to talk about themselves with this one weird trick 00:28:07 logic professors hate him 00:30:37 FreeFull: i meant naturals. 00:30:50 Should I watch Dollhouse? 00:31:04 No. 00:31:09 (shachaf, take note) 00:31:29 Maybe it's just me whose time you want to waste. 00:31:34 -!- shachaff has joined. 00:31:46 Maybe. 00:32:25 should i watch The Sting 00:32:29 wasn't it shafchaf 00:32:35 oopse 00:32:38 -!- shachaff has changed nick to shafchaf. 00:32:46 shafkchaf 00:32:56 -!- shafchaf has changed nick to shafkchaf. 00:34:03 kmc: you use the TM which searches for a proof or disproof of the statement that a given TM halts. then from that you construct a TM for which there is no such proof or disproof, thus incidentally proving a version of the incompleteness theorem from the halting theorem construction. 00:35:14 otherwise, the usual incompleteness theorem doesn't say that its undecidable statement has anything to do with TMs. 00:35:59 interesting 00:36:25 note to self: do not ^A M in screen 00:46:28 why 00:47:23 Is there something wrong with this? http://sprunge.us/XOOT 00:48:18 xoot suit 00:49:10 while(m this line is extremely suspect 00:49:47 i also like while(inst_args[2]) memory[inst_args[0]+--inst_args[2]]=0; 00:51:20 What is wrong with that one, please? 00:51:31 it's not obviously right, so it's probably wrong 00:52:31 What makes it seems it's not obviously right? 00:52:46 Bike: The sum of naturals isn't a natural 00:52:48 that's not how it works 00:52:53 I happen to know that while(inst_args[2]) memory[inst_args[0]+--inst_args[2]]=0; isn't broken, however. 00:52:56 I mean, the sum of all naturals 00:53:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 00:54:21 zzo38: why the comma operator there, instead of just two statements? 00:54:26 FreeFull: i was talking about weird-ass models of zfc 00:55:09 kmc: I don't want to put everything in seperate lines instead. (Also, changing it doesn't help.) 00:55:18 you can put multiple statements on the same line 00:55:28 also changing it does help, it makes the code less weird-ass 00:55:36 well, i guess tswett's mantra makes this a pointless line of thought re turing machines, anyway. 00:55:48 Bike: what is your favorite weird-ass model of zfc 00:55:58 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:56:10 all i know really is that there's a countable model of zfc 00:56:30 kmc: I know I can put multiple statements on the same line but I don't want to. 00:56:51 i'm not good with models :( 00:58:16 !c int a; a=3,&a; printf("hm"); 00:58:21 hm 00:58:39 !c int a; a=3,&a; printf("%d",a); 00:58:41 3 00:58:59 kmc: Then you'd need {}... Come on, you're being a bit ridiculous. 00:59:27 So how many words of a given length does a given ambiguous context-free grammar have? 00:59:53 So, you know how there exist Turing machines that halt in some models of ZFC, but not others? 00:59:59 I wonder if there's a model of ZFC where all of them halt. 01:00:29 That would be a pretty trippy model. 01:00:40 help whats a model 01:00:55 a thing that the axioms describe 01:01:12 help what's a mooodl 01:01:13 well model theory is separate from axiomatic formal logic 01:01:38 you still need laws of whatever kind doncha 01:01:55 A model of ZFC is a set U along with a relation `in` on U such that for all elements x and y of U, if for all z in U, z `in` x if and only if z `in` y, then x = y, and ... 01:02:17 A model of ZFC is a set U along with a relation `in`, such that U and `in` satisfy the axioms of ZFC. 01:02:57 All right, ambiguous grammars. 01:03:07 I'm trying to come up with ones that are complicated, but not too complicated. 01:03:08 kmc: is being hungover good 01:03:11 so does anyone know what i should get in MIT's half off book sale 01:03:39 shachaf: no hth 01:03:50 should i try it 01:04:29 Here's my favorite one so far: ::= "a"* "b"*; ::= "a" "b" | epsilon 01:05:02 Given a string of as and bs in that language, the number of parses of that string is the x^(number of as) y^(number of bs) coefficient of 1/(1 - xy)(1 - x)(1 - y). 01:05:04 tswett: you know it's undecidable whether a cf grammar is ambiguous or not, right? 01:05:05 Suspicious. 01:05:08 oerjan: yep. 01:05:12 Well, no. 01:05:17 But I'm not surprised. 01:05:50 there's a simple reduction from the post correspondence problem 01:06:17 i like that i went searching for the semantics of the comma operator and one of the first hits was "GCC Bug 6409 - C comma operator: wrong behavior" 01:06:38 semantics: n/a 01:07:04 comma is a sequence point iirc, while assignment is not (iirc) 01:07:19 yeah i think so too 01:07:21 -!- amca has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:07:55 looks like that could be done with memcpy/memmove instead 01:08:57 kmc: how much drugz have you taken since you got to ca 01:09:17 So I guess the parses of this grammar are really pretty simple. I wonder what's a language that has more sophisticated parses... 01:09:24 In my program it is *supposed* to corrupt the table by copying it like that. 01:09:32 shachaf: lots 01:09:37 mostly booze 01:09:49 Ooh, here's one: ::= "a"** 01:09:51 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11751 is kind of amusing as well 01:10:47 Each string there has infinitely many parses. That won't do. How about this one: ::= ("a"+)* 01:10:49 kmc: do they mark every undefined behavior bug as a duplicate of that one 01:11:33 it just keeps going XD 01:11:34 seems to be the trend 01:11:35 If there are x as, then the number of parses is really just 2^(x-1). Unless there are no as. 01:11:52 -!- shafkchaf has quit (Quit: ff). 01:11:57 «The code is undefined, which means we should be able to do system("rm -Rf /");, note we don't.» thanks, asshole 01:11:57 maybe only ones related to multiple-assignment between sequence points 01:12:24 heh that is what I would say 01:12:27 maybe in somewhat more words 01:12:42 kmc: but would you use an uppercase r 01:12:44 like fuck, they know perfectly well it's undefined, they're just asking for a bit vendor-definition 01:12:53 you could at least tell them it's too much work or something 01:13:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:13:25 "rm -rf /" is the one true rm command 01:13:51 So how can (a++)+(a++)+(++a) there evaluate to 4? 01:14:02 Bike: "compiler-dependent" (i.e. implementation-defined) isn't the same as "undefined" 01:14:05 Bike: no I don't think the original opener of the ticket knows that it's undefined 01:14:22 tswett: it's undefined, it can do anything 01:14:34 oh, i'm reading the thread 01:14:35 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11751#c28 01:14:38 All right. Does it evaluate to 4 in a sensible manner, and if so, what is that manner? 01:14:44 shachaf: i know. 01:15:00 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 01:15:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:15:18 Bike: that's not the original ticket opener who the rm -Rf comment was directed towards 01:15:31 so I see. 01:15:39 UB is useful to the compiler because it enables optimizations 01:16:19 yes, but you could explain that 01:16:20 So undefined behavior is there to extend the equivalence class between programs. 01:16:28 As well as giving implementations some leeway... 01:16:35 kmc: Yes, that is why I wanted to add some strange operators. 01:16:35 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 01:16:48 zzo38: you had one that was "AND or ADD" right? 01:16:57 er, "OR or ADD"? 01:17:01 kmc: Yes. 01:17:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:17:23 Signed overflow being UB makes it 'sane' to use one's complement integers. 01:17:45 Admittedly this particular case is probably dubious. 01:18:17 Is there a way to compile a program so that all "undefined behaviors" produce an error message? 01:18:23 Probably not. 01:18:28 I mean. There are a lot. 01:18:43 detecting UB at compile time is ~impossible, but I think you can write runtime checks for most of them 01:18:47 -!- elieser224 has joined. 01:18:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:18:59 I,I valgrind 01:19:12 The number of ways to produce undefined behavior should be O(n) in the length of the spec. 01:19:14 yeah, also ASan is in GCC 4.8 now 01:19:21 asan? 01:19:26 er, 4.9 01:19:29 https://code.google.com/p/address-sanitizer/ 01:20:12 "It finds use-after-free and {heap,stack,global}-buffer overflow bugs", 2x slowdown I think 01:20:16 tswett: Some instances of UB require a halting oracle to identify. 01:20:18 Nice. 01:20:28 (varies by application of course) 01:20:32 pikhq_: I mean so that they produce an error message at runtime. 01:20:44 Do you need a halting oracle to recognize UB at runtime? 01:20:47 shachaf: someone at Mozilla mentioned that they knew someone who used xpdf in valgrind always 01:20:53 Ha 01:21:05 I'd be unsurprised to find that really. 01:21:05 i used valgrind for mosh to simulate laggy server process 01:21:09 Why? 01:21:16 why which 01:21:18 -!- elieser2241 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:21:20 xpdf 01:21:45 because xpdf has more holes than a... some kind of object with lots of holes 01:22:02 Oh, security? 01:22:06 yeah 01:22:11 I had not considered that use of valgrind. 01:22:24 i love reading pdfs about vulnerabilities of pdf viewers 01:22:35 Is something like for(;;);free(x);free(x); undefined behavior? 01:23:13 shachaf: maybe Mosh should detect GCC 4.9 and run some benchmarks of the slowdown on your machine and then build with ASan 01:23:21 freeing the same pointer twice is undefined isn't it 01:23:22 shachaf: No. 01:23:34 oh, durr, ignore me 01:23:49 not actually a reasonable idea but I do think --enable-asan or something would be good 01:24:10 shachaf: Double-free can never occur in the C abstract machine, and as it so happens, this never occurs. 01:24:26 Likewise, goto foo;free(x);free(x);foo: is defined behavior. 01:25:08 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 01:25:31 what if i put a double free after a loop which searches for a nontrivial zero of the riemann zeta function which is not on the critical line 01:25:47 pikhq_: Would it be allowed to optimize the second free into unreachable? 01:25:52 zzo38: Yes. 01:26:13 Anything that would be UB may be assumed to never occur. 01:26:30 kmc: you know i've been thinking that an ideal compiler woul dhave to be a good mathematician 01:26:35 (In the case you gave, though, it could optimize out all of it, but after a loop like kmc described, it would have to do that.) 01:26:56 Bike: Yes, I think an ideal *optimizer* would have to be 01:27:09 -!- elieser224 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:27:25 -!- elieser2241 has left. 01:28:02 i wonder if anyone ever asked Gödel whether God could decide all statements in number theory 01:28:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:28:41 so if 'for(;;);free(x);free(x);' is not UB, then the C spec must define what kinds of infinite loops the compiler is required to detect 01:28:54 Why? 01:29:14 it's defined only because the loop is infinite 01:29:25 Right. Why is the compiler ever required to detect it? 01:29:55 extern void f(); f(); free(x); free(x); is also defined if f never returns, presumably. 01:30:08 ok, yes, you're right 01:30:23 -!- elieser224 has joined. 01:30:29 it's only required if the compiler is going to 'look ahead' for UB code and remove stuff before it 01:30:33 -!- elieser224 has left. 01:30:44 which is an implementation decision that the compiler authors can restrict however they like in keeping with the spec 01:30:45 That's for optimizations etc., so not really specified by the spec. 01:30:47 Right. 01:31:30 I wonder whether there are compiler bugs like this. 01:31:32 Probably. 01:33:21 shachaf: Josh (who you met) works at Synaptics and found something like 40 bugs in their in-house C compiler using Csmith 01:33:51 * kmc → afk 01:34:17 They have an in-house C compiler? 01:37:32 I fixed my program. 01:45:34 kmc: did you know it's illegal for a minor to be in a public space in east palo alto between 23:00 and 6:00 01:52:32 -!- elieser224 has joined. 02:03:06 synaptics as in the touchpad people? 02:04:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick 02:04:28 i love how crude the name makes it sound 02:11:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:11:57 -!- elieser224 has left. 02:21:59 tswett, is Sine down? 02:24:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:28:18 shachaf: really? fascists 02:28:24 zzo38: what did you fix 02:28:34 kmc: they recently even started enforcing it 02:28:42 why 02:28:58 what do you do if you're a homeless kid? 02:29:02 you just can't exist in epa? 02:30:41 http://library.municode.com/HTML/16328/level4/SUHITA_TIT9PUPEMOWE_CH9.20PRMI_ARTIINGE.html 02:33:22 oh it's a port of GCC 02:33:22 Hmm, you count as "emancipated" in CA if you've gotten married. 02:33:52 is Josh (who i met) on irc 02:34:07 shachaf: yeah, if you have rich parents you can get better financial aid if you marry someone poor 02:34:13 he is not 02:34:21 but he is looking over my shoulder 02:34:38 hi Josh (who i met) 02:39:35 -!- Bike has joined. 02:51:46 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:06:46 -!- constant has joined. 03:13:54 someone should build pam_brethalyzer 03:14:32 Are the names of destroyer ships supposed to have "class" at the end? 03:15:03 no 03:15:38 In this game I am playing, they do, both for the United States and Japanese ships. 03:15:39 a class of ships is named after one of the ships in the class (usually the first one?) 03:15:48 so e.g. the USS Iowa was a Montana-class battleship 03:15:56 this is what it does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg 03:16:12 O, so that's how it works. 03:34:49 https://github.com/search?p=3&q=extension%3Aphp+mysql_query+%24_GET&ref=searchresults&type=Code 03:36:19 Someone should write a script that does that kind of search and creates issues in the project 03:36:33 (Perhaps with human supervision to ensure no false positives) 03:37:13 i'm sure that will go over well 03:37:30 someone should write a script that submits a pull request for every PHP project which simply deletes the entire project 03:38:07 does github have policies about bots like that? 03:38:43 I'm going to raise an issue with the 4 day old one 03:39:09 Someone already did 03:39:26 ... 03:39:31 https://github.com/gregmolnar/infokos/commit/5eba4f5d7840d0f97135094214dad343a9c30e41 03:39:57 Not really the sort of fix I would personally recommend 03:39:58 lol 03:40:02 will that actually work 03:40:02 Google says it'll be 37° in Palo Alto next week. 03:40:26 there ought to be a law 03:40:27 that is a very PHP way to fix that problem 03:41:28 in PHP i wouldn't be so sure that (int)x can never be "'; DROP DATABASE; --" 03:41:48 i'm probably naive here but: is constructing a query string really the best way to do that anyway? that seems about as good as constructing code to eval because that's what it is, which seems like not good. 03:42:05 kmc: In PHP mysql_query can't do multiple semicolon-separated queries! 03:42:08 So we're safe. 03:42:08 hth 03:42:10 Hey, at least two languages I like are centered around constructing code to eval! 03:42:23 Do they suck? 03:42:25 Be honest. 03:42:31 I don't think they do. 03:42:41 Be honest, sgeo. 03:42:41 Bike: No, constructing a query string is not the best way to do that. hth 03:42:48 So what's the good way. 03:43:13 Parameterized queries are the obvious improvement to make that safe. 03:43:15 most languages / DB APIs have something like query("SELECT foo FROM bar WHERE x = ?", x) 03:43:18 Bike, Tcl and Rebol are both fantastic languages! Just ask pikhq_ about Tcl. 03:43:21 yeah parametrized queries 03:43:24 I.e. what kmc said. 03:43:30 yeah that makes more sense. 03:43:30 Also using a higher-level thing like an ORM. 03:43:32 does php have that? 03:43:35 safer, easier to write, and you can also save and compile them ahead of time 03:43:35 Yes. 03:43:40 Right. 03:43:46 (Not necessarily an ORM. Just something high-level.) 03:43:50 Yeah I was wondering about the compiling too. 03:43:54 yeah, an ORM, or just a DSL for building SQL 03:43:58 i think sqlalchemy is both 03:44:05 @quote strings 03:44:05 uninverted says: Moving from lisp to haskell with respect to functions is like moving from c to perl with respect to strings. 03:44:10 Hmm. 03:44:10 @quote stark 03:44:11 AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. 03:44:19 @quote AlanPerlis string 03:44:19 AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. 03:44:21 Ah. 03:44:30 That one. 03:45:06 web development involves a ton of metaprogramming, much of it at string level :/ 03:45:35 Yep. 03:45:40 Similarly you should use a templating system or something high-level to generate HTML! 03:46:25 i would call most templating systems "string level" 03:46:29 dunno 03:47:09 what should we use to generate templating systems 03:47:25 it turns out that metaprogramming and functional programming are really useful, if you don't tell people that they are fancy math things 03:47:30 kmc: Similarly to the SQL thing, I mean. 03:47:40 Templating systems corresponding to the x = ? case. 03:47:44 yeah 03:48:01 Even in C you can have SQL with ?1 and so on if you use SQLite, or probably other database engines too. 03:48:31 Alternatively you change the name of all your string variables to usBlah and then rely on humans to make sure all the names match up. 03:49:15 I heard that's the proper way to do it. 03:49:41 http://linux.die.net/man/1/ecpg "ecpg is the embedded SQL preprocessor for C programs. It converts C programs with embedded SQL statements to normal C code by replacing the SQL invocations with special function calls." 03:49:45 What's always "fun" is mixing front-end templating with back-end templating that is unaware of the front-end templating 03:49:56 oh yes 03:50:04 metatemplatery 03:50:23 maybe i should just go to your house and talk, rather than html 03:52:22 shachaf did that 03:52:55 Talk? Not really. 03:53:00 true 03:53:12 You all live near each other? 03:53:13 Wat? 03:53:25 They live in the elusive land of "some urban area in california" 03:53:34 Finlaxam, CA 03:53:34 I am in SF for the weekend but I don't live there yet 03:53:50 eh, basically the same 03:54:03 We've answered the questions of which of me and kmc is the one who doesn't say anything. 03:54:11 why would there be one 03:54:23 I didn't say it was a good question. 03:54:25 Because you're both weird internet creeps 03:54:52 im not weird :'( 03:55:00 also 03:55:01 esoteric/2012-12-03.txt:21:22:46: yes shachaf and i have met irl 03:55:01 esoteric/2012-12-03.txt:21:22:56: once at boston python and once at the stripe ctf meetup in sf 03:55:04 esoteric/2012-12-03.txt:21:22:59: and maybe another time 03:55:07 esoteric/2012-12-03.txt:21:23:07: we are more awkward in person 03:55:30 so 03:55:32 weird internet creeps 03:55:38 (Well, at least when we're around a bunch of people that kmc knows and I don't.) 03:55:59 i hope they provided some amt. of entertainment 03:56:53 Yep. 03:57:05 Maybe this weekend I can focus all my not-talking at you! 03:57:16 nalking 03:57:34 (By "weekend" I mean Sun-Tue.) 03:57:56 17:53 Bicycle haters unike! 03:57:57 steekend 03:58:21 17:53 was such a bad minute 03:59:03 Bike: imo you should come to sf and have burritos/ramen/sushi/pizza/other kmc food 03:59:14 ugh that sounds good 03:59:27 but i can't even afford a stupid book, let alone kmcfood 03:59:32 i had a salty ginger ice cream sundae from bi-rite 03:59:33 so good 03:59:33 (this is all one meal btw. just a day in the life of kmc) 04:00:00 well there is http://www.sushirrito.com/ 04:00:09 kmc: The person I went to meet and I had "strawberry white balsamic" ice cream prepared with liquid nitrogen! 04:00:16 nice 04:02:13 Bike: stupid books make you stupid anyway 04:02:15 buy smart books 04:02:15 hth 04:02:18 "I am issuing a fatwa: all real programmers must Rasmus Lerdorf in the balls on sight" 04:02:47 better without the verb 04:02:51 yep 04:03:01 Rasmus Lerdorf is a verb and all we know is that it can be done to balls 04:03:16 is f(x) = 2x a diffeomorphism 04:03:22 i think yes but i need external confirmation. 04:03:50 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:04:37 A diffeomorphism is a bijection such that both it and its inverse are infinitely differentiable? 04:05:46 (In the case of ℝ→ℝ.) 04:06:27 does it need to be infinitely so? 04:06:48 "It is an invertible function that maps one differentiable manifold to another, such that both the function and its inverse are smooth." 04:06:49 wikipedia says so but not my book 04:06:51 "In mathematical analysis, a function that has derivatives of all orders is called smooth." 04:06:51 how terrible. 04:06:54 Oh. 04:06:58 What does your book say? 04:07:09 http://www.math.toronto.edu/mat1300/smooth.2.pdf says so too. 04:07:22 Just that it and the inverse are differentiable. 04:07:36 Well, either way the answer seems to be yes. 04:07:42 yeah. 04:07:57 But you should probably work out the definitions. 04:08:01 thank's 04:08:09 your welcome 04:08:25 What's your book? 04:08:58 Ooh, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Diffeomorphism.html says "differentiable" 04:09:01 This is exciting. 04:10:08 kmc: I like how 8/10 of the first page is the same person. 04:12:13 which page 04:12:48 extract($_GET) 04:14:05 shachaf: Ordinary Differential Equations by vi arnold 04:15:17 [Amazingly, there exist continuous functions which are nowhere differentiable. Two examples are the Blancmange function and Weierstrass function. Hermite (1893) is said to have opined, "I turn away with fright and horror from this lamentable evil of functions which do not have derivatives"» mathematicians are the best. 04:15:31 * kmc → afk 04:15:41 adieegan 04:15:47 Hmm. 04:15:49 adiuaf 04:18:15 ADieu Is Usually A Farewell 04:18:42 Bike: are differential equations good 04:18:55 should i "learn things about them" 04:19:00 They're like Turing machines for people who aren't HUGE NERDS like yourself 04:19:17 :'( 04:19:34 But yeah, they're cool 04:19:45 http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.4667 ~ 04:21:03 "Differential Equations" is the worst college class, though. 04:25:35 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:39:47 why would anyone take a class called "differential equations" 04:40:02 probably itd just be all about finding solutions 04:40:05 which is 100% lame 04:40:54 mnoqy: are differential equations good tho....... 04:41:39 shachaf: differential eqns are a pain. Of course I did just take a class that involved them so I might be biased... 04:42:02 `relcome SingingBoyo 04:42:03 the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) 04:42:08 so i stay away from it 04:42:10 ​SingingBoyo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:42:20 if u want "calculus but good" try "analysis" 04:42:43 `addquote the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) so i stay away from it 04:42:47 1044) the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) so i stay away from it 04:43:22 `revert 04:43:26 Done. 04:43:31 `addquote the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) so i stay away from it 04:43:35 1044) the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) so i stay away from it 04:56:12 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 04:57:03 -!- elieser2241 has left. 05:07:31 mnoqy is quite correct, both about "Differential Equations" and about calculus. 05:17:19 `quote 05:17:21 344) [on spiking] drugs are expensive. It would be a waste to use them on a random stranger. 05:17:53 \o/ i bothered to track and fix a bug 05:17:53 | 05:17:53 /< 05:17:59 just sayin' :) 05:18:05 you guys seemed to enjoy it anyway 05:18:38 the \o\ thing? \o/ I mean. \ o /, \ o /, \o/ 05:18:39 | | | 05:18:39 /`\ /^\ /'\ 05:18:47 Not bad. 05:19:11 o/o/o/o/o/o/o/ 05:19:22 \o\o\o\o\o\o\ 05:19:26 Hmph. 05:19:38 hehe 05:19:42 no troupers sorry 05:19:49 \o\\o\\o\\o\ 05:19:49 | | | | 05:19:50 /´\/< /< /^\ 05:20:05 .\m/ \m/ 05:20:05 `\o/´ 05:20:05 | 05:20:05 /'\ 05:20:05 (_| |_) 05:46:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:59:38 Can a small TOGA computer be made using only two 74xx series ICs? 05:59:55 is that like a toga party? 06:00:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/TOGA_computer 06:01:24 urisc, haha 06:09:34 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:10:03 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 06:10:03 -!- Jafet1 has quit (*.net *.split). 06:10:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:10:04 -!- Lymia 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Two examples are the Blancmange function and Weierstrass function. Hermite (1893) is said to have opined, "I turn away with fright and horror from this lamentable evil of functions which do not have derivatives"» mathematicians are the best. 12:22:43 you totally fucked up this quote 12:23:28 i mean the actual quotes 12:23:30 not the content 12:30:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:31:23 wow how did that happen 12:36:40 i love the blancmange function 12:36:43 (it's so easy) 12:38:15 love those monoids jokes 12:38:34 sadly they are not so easy 12:38:54 how are they not easy? they look rather mindless 12:38:58 :-) 12:49:58 -!- gasoline has joined. 12:51:53 dudes 12:52:01 gasoline 12:52:01 hows hanging dudes 12:52:09 hanging's great 12:52:30 `relcome gasoline 12:52:34 ​gasoline: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:52:41 we will see about that elliott 12:52:49 help 12:53:03 ;seen themom 12:53:22 the mom?? 12:53:31 do we know you 12:53:34 yea for elliott 12:53:59 or were you saying something 12:54:12 i dont exclude that possibility you know 12:54:27 have you noticed you're not making much sense 12:54:46 wake up this is irc dude 12:54:57 true 12:55:01 so 12:55:07 then we agree on something 12:55:19 yes 12:55:40 doesnt mean you also said something usefull ofcourse 12:55:47 wow burn 12:56:36 whats up with undernet by the way 12:56:53 it seems they lost their server 12:57:12 mnoqy: remember that guy who came in and quit because of the dalnet in the welcome 12:57:15 that was so good 12:57:29 you mean the guy who was really upset about mentioning dal? 12:57:30 yeah 12:57:32 i remember that guy 12:57:40 what was up with that guy anyway 12:58:23 -!- gasoline has changed nick to newstalker. 12:58:30 hahaha 12:58:35 news talker? 12:58:44 questions questions questions 12:58:51 SEEK 12:58:58 and thou may find something 12:59:18 are you high 12:59:24 we know all about the drugz here 12:59:24 good question elliott 13:00:00 what is there that makes you think that I am a topic 13:00:15 so yes 13:00:32 elliott: elliott elliott 13:00:40 hi 13:00:44 hi elliott 13:00:58 have you met fungot 13:00:58 elliott: i've been hacking on a business model yet. but you can't 13:01:21 elliott don't you remember the last time gasoline was here 13:01:52 why would i remember such a loser 8) 13:02:18 you mean the guy who was really upset about mentioning dal? 13:02:22 what guy was this 13:02:30 the great guy 13:02:40 you remember me elliott 13:02:56 newstalker, so are you locked in the matrix of solidity 13:03:25 i call that wildly speculative 13:04:04 Phantom_Hoover: Broly 13:04:25 check 2013-03-18 13:04:43 maybe if someone mentions dalnet ... 13:04:57 dalnet 13:05:04 uhm no 13:05:06 try again 13:05:21 dalnet 13:05:27 dahlnet 13:05:51 no then its not me dudes 13:05:55 `pastelogs Broly 13:06:26 newstalker: but aren't we all one 13:06:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29509 13:09:39 HEY! YOU! 13:09:42 Dont Watch That! 13:09:44 Watch This! 13:09:49 This is the Heavy Heavy Monster Sound 13:09:51 what's that and what's this 13:09:51 oh 13:09:52 ok 13:09:52 The Naziest Sound Around! 13:10:04 what makes a sound Nazi 13:10:31 Positive News ! Force Feeding does work ! So called Hunger Strikers at Guantanamo Bay Have Actually “Put On Weight” - Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-KS) 13:11:18 More Positive News ! The President is gonna Close Guantanamo Bay Again ! 13:11:34 As soon as he returns from vacation ... 13:11:44 -!- elieser224 has joined. 13:11:51 -!- elieser224 has left. 13:13:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:20:02 im reading about a Pill that also cures racism 13:20:40 ha ha theyre saying that it will no doubt fire up the imagination of egalitarians everyfwhere 13:21:23 That seems very Clockwork Orange 13:22:17 A Clockwork Orange is a dystopian novella written by Anthony Burgess and published in 1962. 13:22:50 thank's 13:22:58 It's about (or contains, I'm not sure) a doctor trying to medically cleanse evil from someone 13:23:02 It... works. 13:23:03 Sort of. 13:23:19 dystopian seems the right way to denominate it versus utopian 13:26:00 -!- newstalker changed the topic of #racism to: welcome ! and ... racists only ! 13:29:49 hi 13:29:55 are you a racist 13:30:51 i suppose you cannot define racist 13:31:05 btw you're kind of annoying can you go away 13:31:19 i suppose by saying racist you mean racist discrimination too 13:31:55 ssh elliott that's rude 13:32:59 ssh: Could not resolve hostname elliott: Name or service not known 13:40:26 About $764 or about $317 for a new monitor... Hm. The more expensive one is significantly nicer though... 13:50:29 newstalker, Wouldn't a racist be someone like Michael Schumacher? ;) 13:51:55 was that a joke 13:52:03 it appears to be so 13:52:07 we may never know the true intent 13:52:35 mnoqy, yes it was 13:52:47 Phantom_Hoover: wrong 13:52:50 mnoqy, wasn't the ";)" obvious enough? 13:52:50 anthropologists conclude that it can only have come from a being with a radically less-developed sense of humour than modern humans 13:53:47 qualified experts tend to agree 13:54:30 thunderstorms, bbl 13:54:46 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 13:55:55 mnoqy: did that answer your question ? 13:56:23 i still don't understand it, but at least he tried 13:56:33 hi whats going oin 13:56:45 vorpal tried to make a joke 13:56:49 newstalker is crazy 13:56:57 vorpal is an idiot 13:56:58 hi newstalker 13:56:59 news at 11 13:57:03 are you a news talker or a new stalker 13:57:04 hi nooodl 13:57:10 we already did that one nooodl 13:57:20 remember news-ham? those were the days 13:57:36 the days where we had news 13:57:55 i want news-ham back 13:58:00 why was news-ham ever deactivated 13:58:06 too bad i need a new silly language to be enamoured with to write any silly bots 13:58:12 Phantom_Hoover: i lost the code 13:58:15 NO 13:58:19 UNACCEPTABLE 13:58:28 zepto imo 13:58:35 nooodl, you're young and impressionable WRITE A NEW NEWS-HAM 13:58:39 i bet the next one will be in a concatenative language 13:58:42 seems like "the time" 13:58:48 to be enamoured with a silly concatenative language 13:58:54 what's that :-( 13:59:03 sorry nobody understands news-ham but me 13:59:03 are there any silly concatenative languages worth being enamoured over 13:59:21 it gives you random headlines when you say 'news-ham' or 'what are the haps my friends' 13:59:24 mnoqy: well factor is pretty cute but probably it's too "#esoteric mainstream" to be enamoured with 13:59:27 i think they were from the bbc? 13:59:31 i think cat is cute? "iirc" 13:59:40 elliott: there's also the thing where sgeo went on a factor trip 13:59:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:59:46 elliott: and evincar went on a concatenative trip 13:59:52 and wrote a concatenative blog post 13:59:53 mnoqy: well, he went on a PicoLisp trip too 13:59:54 and 13:59:57 ah yes 13:59:58 and news-ham was written in PicoLisp 14:00:00 i remember that 14:00:03 "not an obstacle" 14:00:08 hm 14:00:15 you did that while sgeo was on his picolisp trip right 14:00:23 yeah i think so 14:00:26 you should write new-s-ham in rebol 14:00:28 so i guess the next one has to be rebol 14:00:31 "snap' 14:00:33 ' 14:00:36 it wouldnt be a retread though 14:00:38 i dont do sequels 14:01:00 i just want news-ham back ;_; 14:01:26 ...o.O have I actually been causing people to try out the category of languages of whatever language I'm tripping on? 14:01:27 all things must pass 14:01:44 no Sgeo_, sorry 14:04:30 dinosaur bones that are carbon dated in general will come out only a couple of thousand years old 14:04:47 therefor the results of dinosaur bones that are carbon dated are dismissed 14:05:54 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 14:05:56 the earth also got a 100 million years older this year 14:06:05 `fetch http://api.bbcnews.appengine.co.uk/stories/uk 14:06:07 2013-06-02 14:06:05 URL:http://api.bbcnews.appengine.co.uk/stories/uk [19808] -> "uk.1" [1] 14:06:08 carbon dating... doesn't work for more than a few thousand years but why am i saying this 14:06:12 `run python -c "import random, json; print random.choice(json.loads(open('uk').read())['stories'])['description']" 14:06:14 Lady Anne Glenconner, one of the Queen's six maids of honour at the Coronation in 1953, talks about her memories of the day. 14:06:19 `run python -c "import random, json; print random.choice(json.loads(open('uk').read())['stories'])['description']" 14:06:21 A feature on American jargon in "soccer" generated a huge response. Here, readers share their favourite - and least favourite - descriptions of their favourite sport by overseas announcers. 14:06:52 elliott, was it just the bbc headlines btw 14:06:54 man i probably want title instead for more headlineyness 14:06:59 `run python -c "import random, json; print random.choice(json.loads(open('uk').read())['stories'])['title']" 14:07:00 Sporting terms that divide the English-speaking world 14:07:08 Is that like (the beginnings of) an automated "what's up?"-answerer? 14:07:45 too bad HackEgo can't fetch files from within python 14:07:49 don't you remember news-ham, fizzie 14:07:56 or can it?? 14:08:17 <@BBC> Title: Cheerios Forced to Shut Down Comments on New Ad Featuring Interracial Family | TheBlaze.com 14:08:21 nooodl: It can fetch files from whitelisted domains. 14:08:48 (Or at least `run wget can, so presumably `run python can as well.) 14:09:07 (google.com is the only whitelisted domain I know of, though.) 14:09:27 Phantom_Hoover: no it was more 14:09:28 ssshh british BULLSHIT coporation ... 14:09:31 it had topics and multiple sources and everything 14:09:36 fizzie: btw can you get rid of newstalker 14:09:59 i was about to say, does this meet our ops' ridiculously high standard for banning 14:10:04 nooodl: also it's not a proper news-ham if you have to use "symbols" and stuff to invoke it 14:10:09 nooodl: it needs to be natural 14:10:20 yeah that's a bad :( 14:11:19 Phantom_Hoover: Not all of them are as bad as I when it comes to that, really. 14:12:03 well, ais isn't 14:12:12 have you looked at /lastlog newstalker 14:12:14 imo it's educational 14:12:31 lastlog gasoline is nice too 14:12:36 oerjan is eager to ban channel regulars who undermine his authority but not actual disruptive idiots 14:12:43 Phantom_Hoover: oh, shut up 14:12:50 elliott, no you shut up 14:13:03 -!- masliksis has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:16:15 i may put this channel on autojoin 14:16:25 thanks 14:17:02 * newstalker tosses mnoqy a cookie 14:17:12 thanks 14:18:27 . Turkeys capital calm after night of clashes <--- duh rioters gotta sleep too 14:18:28 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:18:41 could take shifts 14:19:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:19:48 theyve been out all night rioting in the streets theyre tired 14:20:08 fizzie: what do we have to get them to do to qualify 14:20:11 i'm up for anything 14:21:45 take a chill pill and peace out 14:22:09 ask kmc for details[drug joke] 14:23:17 -!- carado has joined. 14:25:31 they got a new secret surveillance program in the UK called "elliott" 14:27:02 * newstalker points finger at elliott and laughs 14:27:05 fizzie: how about i ping you every time newstalker says something 14:27:10 fizzie: so it annoys you personally 14:27:25 -!- elieser2241 has left. 14:27:37 maybe if you hadnt been such a jerk he woudlnt be bothering you 14:27:54 mnoqy: im a sinner 14:28:08 then repent to the lord jesus 14:28:43 newstalker: what's it like in leiden 14:28:49 -yrs, the elliott surveillance program 14:28:54 and yes ... a ban would surely give you some time to repent 14:30:33 a while ago i got reminded of that one other guy who came in and got in a spat with elliott after talking about aliens and pyramids and stuff and it got out of control 14:30:39 and now its reminding me of that again 14:30:44 you dont want that to happen again do you 14:31:03 were cool 14:31:21 mnoqy: that was great 14:31:30 didnt they get banned eventually though 14:31:34 so its clearly a winning formula 14:31:34 yeah 14:31:43 fizzie take noe!11 14:31:44 ugh 14:31:47 fizzie take note!!! 14:31:49 typing is really hard 14:31:50 my shift key is bad 14:32:00 divine justice 14:32:13 you should get a kick for interfering with ops tho 14:32:22 mnoqy: wait i have a plan 14:32:25 (looking like a dork when you type !s is the divine punishment for being a jerk) 14:32:26 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v newstalker. 14:32:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v newstalker. 14:32:34 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v newstalker. 14:32:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v newstalker. 14:32:40 r u intimidated 14:32:47 elliott are you trying to get your +v privileges revoked!!!! 14:32:58 i think you'll find my +v privileges are divine 14:33:08 more like a +v right, really 14:33:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:33:25 we call em jewtags 14:33:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:33:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:33:58 fizzie: does that count as blatant enough or do we have to push it a bit more 14:33:59 no i think only you call them that 14:34:50 now wheres that fucken penguin 14:35:02 penguin? 14:36:04 wiki? 14:37:10 Penguins are sea - birds. They form the family Spheniscidae, the only family of the order Sphenisciformes. Penguins live on the southern half of the world 14:37:20 ah ok 14:37:35 URL: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin 14:38:34 -!- masliksis has joined. 14:38:43 I'm working with a C++ based language so not everything will be the same as C++, eg.. "Int_t" is this program's equivalent of "Int" for C++. But i was curious about one of the syntax here. after finishing a struct, i thought you were supposed to do an int main. What would the "staff_t staff;" line do? http://pastebin.ca/2387639 14:40:51 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:40:53 it defines the type of staff 14:41:35 newstalker: so it it declares a variables of type staff_t? 14:41:35 and gives you one staff_t instance 14:41:49 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:42:20 and in c++ it calls the staff_t constructor 14:43:01 and destructor on exit 14:45:10 newstalker: You sure? 14:46:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:47:03 tree->Fill(); <-- its empty 14:47:16 -!- heroux has joined. 14:53:39 newstalker: and? 14:53:56 its your program 14:54:18 masliksis: you just joined so you may not be aware that newstalker is a troll 14:54:42 elliott is pratically useless 14:55:47 true 14:55:56 and homosexual 14:56:30 one out of two isn't bad 14:56:33 fizzie: hi 14:56:56 yuck 14:57:01 elliott: I think he was hitting on you. 14:57:13 not what the Lord jesus tought us 14:58:59 why isnt newstalker banned 14:59:08 newstalker: I think you could stop with the insults and the trolly-preachy stuff. 14:59:11 we dont ban people here in #esoteric 14:59:18 nooodl: Because of the aforementioned high standards for banning, I suppose. 14:59:34 fizzie: Could you help me please? :) 14:59:39 It's kind of like it's a great honor to be banned from #esoteric, and diluting it would be silly. 14:59:41 i don't really think they're high so much as nonexistent 15:00:10 like i actually can't remember a single person who has been banned long-term before their not being banned becomes some kind of running joke 15:00:20 masliksis: I don't know what sort of help you need. Re "no main", if it's the ROOT C++ interpreter thing, I don't think it requires a main function, you can just write a "script". You already got an explanation for the line; it's declaring a variable. 15:00:30 fizzie: i think i might have actually been set +b more than anyone else 15:00:32 maybe PH has overtaken me though 15:00:36 true honours 15:01:12 masliksis: btw have you been welcomed yet 15:01:14 `welcome newstalker 15:01:17 newstalker: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:01:30 er 15:01:32 =) 15:01:32 good typo 15:01:34 thankyou 15:01:38 pretend that said you instead 15:01:40 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 15:02:00 `relcome masliksis 15:02:03 ​masliksis: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:02:38 :D 15:03:13 This channel: mostly about silly welcomes. 15:03:22 -!- wood has joined. 15:03:57 cute getting it bolded like that 15:04:21 `run WeLcOmE fizzie | rainwords | h # nobody ever welcomes me :( 15:04:24 ​FihZzIe: WehLcOhmE To tHe ihNtEhrNahTiOhnAhl hUhb fOhr ehSohTehRihC PrOhgRahMmIhnG LahNgUahGe dEhsIhgN AhnD DehPlOyhMehNt! FohR MohRe ihNfOhrMahTiOhn, ChEhcK OuhT OuhR WihKi: HtTp://ehSohLahNgS.OhrG/WihKi/mAihN_PahGe. (fOhr tHe ohThEhr kIhnD Ohf ehSohTehRihCa, TrY #ehSohTehRihC Ohn 15:04:37 `run relcome nooodl | rnooodl 15:04:40 ​nooooooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:05:01 This window looks like a unicorn threw up in it. 15:05:11 `run WeLcOmE fizzie | h | hyphenate.fi | rainwords 15:05:16 ​FihZ-zIe: WehL-cOh-mE To tHe ihN-tEhr-Nah-Ti-Oh-nAhl hUhb fOhr eh-Soh-Teh-RihC PrOhg-RahM-mIhnG LahN-gU-ah-Ge dEh-sIhgN AhnD DehP-lO-yh-MehNt! FohR Moh-Re ihN-fOhr-Mah-Ti-Ohn, ChEhcK OuhT OuhR Wih-Ki: HtTp://eh-Soh-LahNgS.OhrG/Wih-Ki/mAihN_Pah-Ge. (fOhr tHe ohT-hEhr kIhnD Ohf eh-Soh-Teh-R 15:05:29 LahN-gU-ah-Ge 15:05:35 ion: I'm all about the PrOhg-RahM-mIhnG. 15:06:02 my eyes are all kinds of hurt now 15:06:20 olsner: ITYM all "kIhnDs". 15:06:38 -!- wood has changed nick to function. 15:06:39 yes, in bold and bright colors 15:06:44 -!- function has quit (Changing host). 15:06:45 -!- function has joined. 15:06:53 luckily, I don't know how to do that 15:07:03 you can do this too 15:09:59 Insert a space in the beginning? 15:10:30 it blinks ideally 15:12:39 -!- masliksis has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:12:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:40:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:45:09 -!- fwilson has joined. 15:47:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:51:24 -!- phaztrict has joined. 15:51:41 -!- fwilson has left. 15:55:46 `welcome nooodl 15:55:49 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:57:03 wait why does that work/do what it does 15:57:28 it's just a program called \x03welcome i guess 15:58:02 How would you open a file in f#? 15:58:05 http://ideone.com/f8vtR0 15:58:17 `hexdump -C bin/welcome 15:58:19 hexdump: invalid option -- ' ' \ usage: hexdump [-bcCdovx] [-e fmt] [-f fmt_file] [-n length] \ [-s skip] [file ...] \ hd [-bcdovx] [-e fmt] [-f fmt_file] [-n length] \ [-s skip] [file ...] 15:58:28 `run hexdump -C bin/welcome 15:58:29 00000000 23 21 2f 62 69 6e 2f 73 68 0a 77 65 6c 63 6f 6d |#!/bin/sh.welcom| \ 00000010 65 20 7c 20 73 65 64 20 22 73 2f 5e 2f 02 2f 22 |e | sed "s/^/./"| \ 00000020 0a |.| \ 00000021 15:58:30 Input (file to open) http://pastebin.ca/2387667 15:58:59 um maybe I should've `cat'd it 15:59:17 Anyone? 16:06:03 phaztrict: that problem sounds ridiculously googlable. 16:06:23 Not in f# 16:07:05 i'm a little confused about the joining #esoteric to ask an f# question part 16:07:10 surely there is an #fsharp or something 16:07:36 surely there is stackoverflow 16:07:37 Isn't it an esoteric Lang? 16:07:43 not really 16:07:44 no 16:07:48 And I did ask in #fsharp 16:07:56 How is haskell esoteric then? 16:08:01 it isn't 16:08:26 There is a bot for it in here :p 16:09:18 lambdabot is in lots of channels 16:09:18 EgoBot's not written in an esolang either 16:09:41 @listchans 16:09:42 ##crypto ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##unavailable ##villagegreen #agda #codez #darcs #diagrams #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs # 16:09:42 haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game #haskell-gsoc #haskell-in-depth #haskell-lens #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz # 16:09:42 haskell.de #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #ledger #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad # 16:09:42 yi weird# 16:10:23 must resist urge to join 16:11:19 btw "open a file f#" does get me useful-looking results on google FWIW 16:14:07 Wish I could say the same for me 16:14:38 well, we may have differing notions of useful :) 16:18:09 -!- newstalker has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:20:43 elliott, should I do the thing 16:20:51 what is the thing 16:20:59 Who cares 16:21:01 Nothing illegal 16:22:06 then sure 16:22:22 Okay 16:24:53 Help I'm doing the thing 16:24:57 help 16:25:15 It is out of my hands now 16:25:58 what are you doing 16:26:13 Taneb: masturbation is normal 16:26:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:26:40 oklopol, not that thing 16:26:40 wait "out of my hands" 16:27:43 well having sex with a couch is normal too 16:28:27 No, not that thing either 16:28:58 okay i'm out of ideas 16:30:58 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:32:52 The thing is done 16:33:03 Now I don't need to work out how to get to Gateshead Library 16:38:49 -!- conehead has joined. 16:56:07 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:59:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:15:07 -!- function has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 17:19:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:30:16 -!- phaztrict has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:34:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:35:37 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:35:43 -!- DH____ has joined. 17:44:46 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:48:53 Being a total emacs newbie, i was trying org-mode and a tutorial told me to add some lines to ~/.emacs. Only after adding them using the method of editing text ingrained to my spinal nerves i realized there was something funny about the command i had used, “vim .emacs”. 17:49:04 * elliott does that a lot 17:49:44 Nothing wrong with vim .emacs 17:50:45 oh boy i just used the best word 17:50:51 diæresisise 17:51:49 diarrhœisise 17:52:25 Aircraft carries are too powerful in this "Task Force Broadside" game. You cannot attack them with broadside cards while other ships are in play, and you can attack with them without having a "aircraft carrier broadside" card, and when they do attack, they have a 50% chance to sink the ship they attack. 17:58:43 sounds about right. 17:58:57 aircraft carriers are p. useful 18:04:42 can i be aircraft carrier 18:05:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:15:22 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 18:16:49 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:23:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:25:10 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:26:31 http://j00ru.vexillium.org/?p=1870 some cool stuff here 18:34:00 if you ever wondered what happens when a REP STOSB overwrites the instruction being repeated 18:34:07 then now you can find out 18:35:34 I *have* wondered about kX overwriting the X in Funge-98; is that covered in the slides too? 18:38:00 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:38:35 no 18:38:40 http://lifehacker.com/5974087/i-raised-my-kids-on-the-command-lineand-they-love-it how to teach your kids xmonad 18:43:58 sounds like a great idea 18:44:12 more people should try that 18:48:38 Why did they omit - in "lineand" isn't it supposed to be "line-and"? 18:51:15 kmc: hey john goerzen 18:51:16 he's that guy 18:51:18 I wish my parents told me how to use xmonad 18:51:26 well it didn't exist yet but anyway 18:53:17 elliott: yep 18:53:57 Who's John Goerzen? kmc? 18:54:06 I wonder if that's the first useful use of rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep rep movsb 18:54:42 ... and then the slide after that 18:54:47 i am not john goerzen 18:54:58 Oh, okay 18:55:13 so who's "that guy" elliott was referring too 18:55:25 john goerzen 18:55:38 it's all very simple really 18:58:12 no two people are not john goerzen 18:58:32 so two people are john goerzen? 18:58:48 no, john goerzen is two people 18:58:52 didn't you learn about contrapositives 19:00:57 my kids will be raised on @ 19:01:00 (vacuous statement) 19:01:45 kmc: also weird, that article is from 2012 19:02:31 so 19:02:55 well i mean it is from 2012 and then posted on lifehacker a year later 19:02:59 kmc: Actually, that's not at all the law of contraposition 19:03:08 imo that's weird. in my day you wrote something down once and then if you wrote it down again you would be hanged 19:03:12 bring back hangings 19:03:19 that is, john goerzen does not follow from two people 19:03:30 there was cleary equality in that situation 19:03:47 not (two people != john goerzen) <=> two people == john goerzen 19:04:30 first comments "My kids just use Windows 7 like normal people." "No offence, but they’ll be normal and not extraordinary.." 19:04:41 Well, maybe you could say (john goerzen <=> two people) <=> john goerzen xor two people 19:05:06 which is, as you can see, not the same as equality 19:05:21 john goerzen >>= two people 19:05:35 i do think it's kinda weird to pretend computers don't do graphics for five years or whatvver 19:05:49 and the "command line" is a bit fetishised 19:06:10 yeah, but he says the kid had exposure to other devices to 19:06:10 like even if you want a language-y type interface with composability and stuff, terminals in xmonad seem clearly superior to the console 19:06:11 o 19:06:18 yeah 19:06:34 language for input, graphics for output 19:06:39 is basically the way things should work 19:06:57 yet still fairly rare 19:07:21 i'm thinking stuff like mathematica, ipython notebook, graphical emacs in its fancier uses 19:07:51 no kid should have to use mathematica 19:08:06 but look what it can do!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://intothecontinuum.tumblr.com/ 19:08:29 would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners 19:08:29 teach kids perl. it'll work 19:08:47 oh no 19:08:53 oh dear 19:09:12 i did a lot of my early programming in perl 19:09:49 the summer after freshman year of college i had a comp bio research project thing and I handed them like 2000 lines of bioinformatics code in perl 19:10:02 a year later was much the same except it was 2000 lines of haskell 19:10:03 cool 19:10:18 i always wanted to learn perl for just one silly reason, but i can't find anything (except small irssi scripts) which cannot be done with other languages in a way i like more 19:10:51 kmc: um you mean 200 lines of haskell "thats how it works ☺" 19:11:07 combining face shoved in toilet above, elliott 19:11:17 it's still a great tool for oneliners thanks to perl -e -n -p -l -a -F -O etc 19:11:34 perl --bioinformat 19:11:46 is bioinformatting what bioinformatters do 19:12:22 no doubt 19:12:56 The Bioinforma 19:13:48 is that, like, a dude who raps about bioinformatics 19:13:59 bioperforma 19:14:25 my name is dj acid and i'm here to tell you about efficient description of frameshift mutations 19:14:39 dj acid should rap about database consistency 19:14:58 dj acid2 19:14:59 or drugz (drugz joke) 19:15:22 http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/reference.png 19:15:33 test so named because the dude looks like he's on acid 19:15:40 think so 19:15:51 (it isn't :'( ) 19:15:54 not just acid though, acid 2.0 19:15:59 disrupting the acid industry 19:16:14 ok 19:16:16 guys 19:16:19 what if 19:16:25 your browser had a bug in your png rendering 19:16:29 *in its 19:16:33 kmc: i got a card with 4 stamps for that sushi place 19:16:39 so it displayed the reference wrong 19:16:41 because none of the rest of you did 19:16:52 haha 19:16:53 well done 19:16:57 Phantom_Hoover: time to die 19:17:12 how many stamps are needed to redeem valuable prize 19:17:26 10, I think. 19:17:54 acid3 isn't smooth. FAILURE 19:18:16 no one cares about acid tests 19:18:35 oh nooooo 19:18:42 what about electric kool aid ones 19:18:52 -!- kallisti has joined. 19:18:52 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 19:18:52 -!- kallisti has joined. 19:19:51 there should be an acid test to test whether you're drugz 19:20:34 is kmc drugz 19:22:14 kmc was talking about how commercial gps devices stop working when they're too high 19:22:30 it's true 19:22:33 too high and/or too fast 19:22:34 -!- elieser224 has joined. 19:22:36 just like kmc 19:22:39 (drugz joke) 19:22:45 can't triangulate right? 19:22:59 -!- elieser224 has left. 19:23:06 it's intentional, prevents them being used in missile guidance systems 19:23:23 figure 19:23:24 s 19:23:29 i wonder if rosscom has similar restrictions 19:23:32 ok seriously 19:23:39 or the... whatever it is. 19:23:42 14:11:44 -!- elieser224 [~elieser22@190.121.239.17] has joined #esoteric 19:23:42 14:11:51 -!- elieser224 [~elieser22@190.121.239.17] has left #esoteric [] 19:23:42 15:05:54 -!- elieser2241 [~elieser22@190.121.239.10] has joined #esoteric 19:23:42 15:27:25 -!- elieser2241 [~elieser22@190.121.239.10] has left #esoteric [] 19:23:42 20:22:34 -!- elieser224 [~elieser22@190.121.239.31] has joined #esoteric 19:23:45 20:22:58 -!- elieser224 [~elieser22@190.121.239.31] has left #esoteric [] 19:23:47 what the fuck is this person doing 19:23:48 glonass? 19:23:49 it's been going on for days 19:23:55 imo ##fixyourconnection hth 19:23:55 GLONASS? what kind of fucking name is that, russia. 19:24:00 shachaf: they're not even quitting 19:24:02 they're parting 19:24:05 elliott: i know 19:24:08 iPhone 4S supports GLONASS 19:24:08 "close enough" 19:24:14 GLObal kNow where you Are SystemS 19:24:20 i think there is a tariff on GPS devices that don't support GLONASS 19:24:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:24:37 but i like to think that all GLONASS receivers look like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glonass-receiver.jpg 19:24:39 `run echo 'echo "eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal"' >bin/e; chmod +x bin/e 19:24:40 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 19:24:49 `run echo 'echo "eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what'"'"'s the deal"' >bin/e; chmod +x bin/e 19:24:50 that's eep. 19:24:53 No output. 19:24:54 `e 19:24:55 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 19:24:58 ok great 19:25:02 hopefully i can type `e fast enough 19:25:06 i... why did you make a program for that 19:25:07 oh. 19:25:10 because they are too quick 19:25:11 wow, ok. 19:25:16 by the time i notice them they are gone! 19:25:22 elliott: I sent them a /msg before and they didn't respond. 19:25:32 http://www.zazzle.com/eurion_constellation_t_shirt-235509764478000766 19:25:44 the real problem here is that Elieser sounds too much like Elsevier 19:26:10 t-shirt designed to fool t-shirt recognition systems 19:26:13 i searched for "eurion shirt" and i got lots of "urine shirt", thx google 19:26:24 hmm, a russian gps receiver ... isn't it fairly easy for the US to make GPS unusable for anyone they don't like? (like russia) 19:26:28 http://elieser224.wordpress.com/ 19:26:33 elsevier yudkowsky 19:26:45 olsner: glonass is the russian counterpart to gps, with its own satellites 19:27:19 yup and that's why they need it 19:27:24 the restrictions like kmc mentioned are probably a broad strokes thing to deal with non-state actors who don't have GPS devices registered to them or whatever, i'm sure 19:27:33 eu has their own thing too 19:27:46 this wordpress better be good (my system is slow) 19:27:52 has kmc bought me a new computer yet 19:27:55 and china 19:28:03 yes buy me china too 19:29:23 I confused GLONASS with one of those things that improve GPS precision (perhaps something involving the ionosphere) 19:29:36 Bike: hola mundo 19:29:39 (it just loaded) 19:29:52 ion: tell us about the ionosphere 19:31:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:34:23 -!- Bike has joined. 19:37:04 Jesus, the Syrian civil war's been going on for over two years now. 19:37:38 you know their government issued a travel advisory about going to turkey being unsafe? 19:37:41 good times. 19:37:59 Also GALILEO. 19:38:04 Except they probably don't all-caps it. 19:39:01 kmc: you should make a jit 19:39:12 Dance a jig, make a jit. 19:39:13 and the burmese "civil" "war" has been going since basically 1945, shit happens 19:40:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_conflict_in_Burma 19:41:19 i like how they only bother calculating death tolls for the last year or two 19:43:16 yeah 19:43:18 i should 19:43:20 Well, they haven't had a reliable census since, like, the Han dynasty. 19:44:30 shachaf: what do you think of futamura projections 19:44:53 i don't even own a television hth 19:45:04 i hope i am not talking out my ass when i say that pypy is like one 19:45:21 if you're talking out your ass it's probably because you're on drugz 19:45:38 will drugz jokes ever get old 19:45:41 they're like monoid jokes 19:45:42 timeless 19:45:58 hey guys there's a new brainfuck derivative 19:46:52 a new brainfuck diffintegral 19:47:10 we were watching 90s sketch comedy the other day for some reason 19:47:20 i had to recalibrate to a world of bob dole jokes 19:47:37 hulu should have little bubbles that pop up to explain who everyone is 19:48:17 can you imagine explaining to your kids who mitt romney was 19:48:29 futamura really needs to change his name to something that isn't a single vowel swap from futurama 19:48:44 "a very rich man who tried to run for president and lost because nobody liked him" 19:48:49 seems pretty straightforward 19:48:58 Phantom_Hoover: How about making it a consonant swap too? 19:49:26 If they say, "I'm a Sagittarius, which probably tells you way more than you need to know.", then what will be your response? 19:49:40 shachaf, fuck 19:49:45 who cares about consonants anyway 19:50:00 I might say, "Yes, but I don't think it tells me that which I do need to know." 19:51:23 kmc, oerjan: Do you think the whole "discrete calculus" thing is related to types? 19:51:41 is this about holes 19:51:41 As in http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dgleich/publications/Gleich%202005%20-%20finite%20calculus.pdf 19:51:53 It's not that kind of derivative, I don't think. 19:52:02 oh, then i don't know 19:52:23 but it's like all combinatorial and like discrete and stuff man so surely it's related.................. 19:52:34 i will leave that up to others 19:52:36 Did you see that PDF? 19:52:45 the one you just linked? not yet 19:53:10 imo see it 19:54:49 hm 19:54:52 perhaps after burrito 19:55:45 http://twitpic.com/cuz9gf speaking of middle eastern wars (phantom hoover) 19:56:08 is turkey part of the middle east? i guess maybe not. 19:56:16 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 19:56:24 `e 19:56:25 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 19:56:42 Bike: it's "the crossroads between middle east and europe", hth 19:57:02 the slightly left of the middle east. got it 19:57:08 pretty creepy that there's a total local media blackout on these protests 19:57:21 and they cut off facebook / twitter at one point 19:58:08 yeah 19:58:32 i don't know contemporary turkish politics but it sure doesn't reflect well on whoever's in charge 19:59:40 yeah 20:00:22 Vorpal: `welcome to #xorg 20:00:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:00:47 especially since like, this started over a damn park 20:01:16 i see Phantom_Hoover is eager to get banned. also that he lacks a sense of humor. 20:01:46 do i lack a sense of humor 20:02:01 no, it's just very very wrong hth 20:02:22 is this out-of-channel drama 20:02:46 no, it's logreading drama 20:02:53 oh no what happened in the logs 20:03:09 you should ban the troll who said they'd put the channel on autojoin before they come back, ty 20:03:15 you can ban ph at the same time if you'd like too 20:03:23 elliott: ooh, tempting. 20:03:59 ah, the honeypot approach 20:04:04 no, wait, the carrot and the stick approach 20:04:09 or is it a trojan horse 20:04:11 shachaf: It’s the circular thing in which i reside. 20:04:13 -!- elieser2241 has left. 20:04:14 sweetening the deal! that one! 20:04:15 this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. 20:04:29 `addquote this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. 20:04:34 1045) this new apartment stuff has interesting side effects: i'm now getting physical spam. 20:04:34 oerjan: you should also ban this guy who keeps joining and parting. 20:04:38 oh i guess that `e didn't ping them 20:04:39 because of the 1 20:04:42 sneaky. 20:04:47 you should also ban conehead 20:05:01 O: 20:05:01 you can ban me twice if you do that as well 20:05:13 these are all very reasonable requests, i shall put them in my queue 20:05:17 oerjan: once you've done all that you can op me. 20:06:20 also voice gregor 20:06:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 20:06:59 Phantom_Hoover: also it's a trojan carrot honeypot hth 20:07:10 the trojans had some weird cuisine 20:07:27 carrots with honey isn't too mad 20:08:03 ...are you sure, PH? 20:08:44 also oerjan smells and i should be op instead of him 20:08:45 can i have voice 20:09:01 troerjan 20:14:28 http://hostilefork.com/rebmu/ REBOL dialect for code golfin 20:18:23 dialect for code goblin? 20:29:54 ^celebrate 20:29:54 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 20:29:55 | | | `\o/´ ¦ | | `\o/´ | | | 20:29:55 |\ >\ |\ | ´¸¨ /| >\ | /| /`\ /´\ 20:29:56 (_|¯'¯|_) /'\ 20:29:56 (_| |_) 20:30:02 bueatiful 20:30:34 i'm still worried about no. 5 20:31:01 not about 4 and 8? 20:31:10 Btw, how are æ and œ handwritten in countries that use them? I can think of multiple plausible ways. 20:31:29 myname: they don't look physically mauled 20:31:51 i think they do 20:31:57 http://i.imgur.com/hb0paB8.png 20:32:54 -!- clog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:03 is wyoming usa's least populous state? 20:33:13 Pretty sure. 20:33:47 "List of U.S. states and territories by population" agrees. 20:34:00 Ha, it has less people than DC. 20:34:02 (Though some territories have less people.) 20:34:52 Alaska has the lowest score if you go by population density (1.264 per square mile, vs. Wyoming's 5.851), though. 20:35:08 ion: http://webster.hibo.no/alu/norsk2/web07/berit/alfabet.html 20:36:06 Å 20:36:07 ? 20:36:18 what's that doing there 20:37:16 Just hanging out with the other letters, I suppose. 20:37:47 oerjan: Thanks, but i’m interested of the drawing order of the curves. 20:38:17 -!- surma has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:39:33 oh, it's actually a norwegian letter 20:39:39 learn something every day i guess 20:39:44 sheesh 20:40:47 isn't ø enough for you guys 20:40:55 å's a swedish letter as well 20:41:18 i thought it was only a swedish letter 20:42:20 I would think it's quite a different sound from ø; I mean, the å and ö of the Finnish alphabet are different. 20:42:27 ion: well i'm not sure i'm doing it properly myself, as i'd probably draw a part counterclockwise, upper e part counterclockwise, but i suspect that picture requires you to do the e clockwise 20:42:36 well ø is just ö 20:43:04 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:44:12 Norwegian å is pretty much swedish å, no? 20:44:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:44:25 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 20:44:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:45:03 Finnish å is pretty much Swedish å. 20:45:49 FireFly: i'm not sure it's exactly the same, but it's very close 20:45:59 (just to clarify in case someone knows as little about alphabets as i: finnish doesn't have å, but it's alphabet does) 20:46:43 To provide backwards compatibility with Swedish? 20:47:01 something like that 20:47:03 prolly 20:47:14 we also have things like w and x 20:47:17 and z 20:47:34 That's like q in swedish I guess 20:47:41 none of which are used in finnish words (except some loanwords, but then again those use a lot of letters our alphabet doesn't have) 20:47:44 and q yeah 20:47:45 and z perhaps 20:47:55 å was probably handy back when everyone in finland was forced to learn swedish 20:48:02 W we have in some Finnish-enough surnames. (Waltari, for example.) 20:48:07 olsner: Everyone still is. 20:48:23 “back” when everyone in Finland “was” forced to learn Swedish? 20:48:24 really? 20:48:30 you totally fucked up this quote <-- well for one thing it should have been in french, no? 20:48:39 olsner: Sure. The requirement is a popular point of debate, though. 20:48:45 I thought finland became "independent" at some point 20:48:48 olsner: There's a petition to abolish it and so on. 20:48:53 olsner: Hah 20:49:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish <- notable! 20:50:26 http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakkoruotsi apparently this is really important 20:51:04 The logo is kind of misleading, in that I don't think they're actually advocating the removal of Å from the alphabet. 20:51:09 (Except maybe as a long-term goal?) 20:51:15 language is the weirdest 20:51:19 let's just abolish words 20:51:33 fizzie: you should just switch to unicode as the alphabet 20:51:33 https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/340964678807216128 https://github.com/search?p=3&q=extension%3Aphp+mysql_query+%24_GET&ref=searchresults&type=Code 20:52:02 don't do it ion!!!!!!! 20:52:11 olsner: At least it would make those "write every letter of the alphabet" exercises kids have to do in school a lot more "fun". 20:52:25 shachaf: no u 20:52:43 ion: (i was talking "about the so easy thing") 20:52:47 shachaf: i know 20:53:19 U+0003 is end of text, so I guess you don't have to go any further than that 20:53:38 end of text 20:53:57 The “write every letter of the alphabet” exercises would have been much nicer if you only had to write U+0001…U+0003. 20:54:08 Especially considering they're all control characters 20:54:14 a 20:54:19 <- END OF MEDIUM 20:54:26 Why did that not end this channel. 20:54:27 END OF PSYCHIC 20:58:48 Some pimples , especially schoolchildren and especially in those parts of Finland where there are few or no Swedish speakers ( Finns ), want to make Swedish an optional subject. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsv.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FObligatorisk_svenskundervisning_i_Finland&act=url 20:59:01 some pimples :D 20:59:19 -!- elieser224 has joined. 20:59:26 -!- elieser224 has left. 20:59:33 It is argued that the Swedish-speaking population in Finland (5.5 percent of the population [2] ) have mastered Finnish so well that a pimple not in touch with these would need some knowledge of Swedish. 21:00:01 "[This article is about the community. For skin condition, see Acne.] Pimples are people who have Finnish as their mother tongue , for example in Finland , Russia , Estonia , Sweden or Norway , or in the more general sense identifies with origins in Finnish culture and Finnish languages ​ ." 21:00:11 TIL: pimples. 21:00:25 "In Sweden, not everyone is aware of the distinction pimple-Finns and therefore, --" 21:01:44 what an unfortunate demonym. 21:02:21 "Pimple and proud of it," I think their slogan is. 21:03:41 dahlnet <-- THAT'S IT I HAVE TO BAN YOU NOW. OH LOOK, BUTTERFLIES! 21:04:02 oerjan: hang on hang on who's talking about dahlnet 21:04:09 oerjan is 21:04:11 imo ban him 21:04:11 shachaf: Phantom_Hoover was 21:04:18 imo dahlnet is the best 21:04:39 fizzie: is pimple a translation from finnish dwh 21:04:40 we could do with some roald dahl inspired esolangs 21:04:46 *twh 21:05:18 `pastlog oerjan.*bfg 21:05:36 2013-04-13.txt:21:44:48: * oerjan invites a giant (not BFG) to shachaf's home 21:05:40 doom inspired esolangs 21:05:50 oerjan: wow 21:05:56 cruelty to people 21:06:08 shachaf: no no it's feeding hungry people hth 21:06:31 `pastlog dahl 21:06:38 2010-01-17.txt:00:23:33: I like to imagine space elevators are exactly as Roald Dahl imagined. 21:06:49 what 21:06:57 Space. Elevators. 21:07:05 Roald. Dahl. 21:07:05 oh 21:07:39 dahl's space elevators are the best 21:08:02 they are the best way to elevate into dahlspace 21:08:20 is Dahlspace a brothel 21:08:23 not necessarily best for other purposes such as eating 21:08:38 Stop dihlly-dahllying around. 21:10:03 https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dahl 21:10:35 https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=dahl&tbs=imgo:1 21:12:03 my sister had to dress up as a roald dahl character for some school thing once 21:12:29 i suggested she dress as the lady from lamb to the slaughter; sadly this suggestion was declined 21:12:57 Based on 20 images, #794e57 is the color of Dahl. 21:13:24 what's the link to that thing again 21:13:32 i think i lost it and i deeply regret doing so 21:13:33 http://zem.fi/fcolor 21:13:42 (For the Flickr version.) 21:16:40 thus far "phantom hoover" is a fairly disappointing http://zem.fi/gcolor-examples 21:16:57 er 21:17:10 8f5f3e 21:17:16 fucking clipboard 21:17:57 Many things do end up greyish-brown in the end. 21:18:44 why didn't you use google images for the in-browser version 21:18:46 too slow or something? 21:18:54 There wasn't a proper API for it. 21:18:59 I'm not sure if there is these days. 21:19:35 The non-browser version is done by ugly crawling, if I recall correctly. 21:19:36 is greyish-brown the color of the internet? 21:20:03 http://thisrecording.com/today/2011/6/1/in-which-we-consider-the-macabre-unpleasantness-of-roald-dah.html 21:21:49 kmc: you're missing out on wild speculation on comonoids 21:21:57 fizzie, i note that there are a few greyscale images which are massively skewing the results 21:22:40 kmc: oh no 21:22:46 kmc: is dr seuss still ok 21:22:57 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, should probably have done something about that. (It's of course due to the weighting that tries to generally emphasize "single-color" images.) 21:23:01 like besides the racism, or 21:23:20 kmc, i think an important stage in one's development is looking back at roald dahl stories and thinking "jesus christ what the fuck" 21:23:32 Bike: i have probably thought of dr seuss like ten times since actually reading the books, i didn't know he was racist! 21:24:06 Well, back in WWII he made some rather unfortunate political cartoons involving the Japanese. 21:24:10 I think he got over it later, though. 21:24:23 "I am all fucked out. That goddamn woman has absolutely screwed me from one end of the room to the other for three goddam nights." pretty hilarious to imagine roald dahl writing this 21:24:40 yes 21:24:56 Bike, "After the war, though, Geisel overcame his feelings of animosity, using his book Horton Hears a Who! (1954) as an allegory for the Hiroshima bombing and the American post-war occupation of Japan, as well as dedicating the book to a Japanese friend." 21:25:05 yeah 21:25:08 elliott, you know what lamb to the slaughter is about right 21:25:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:25:26 Phantom_Hoover: i was hitherto unaware of its existence 21:25:30 also his wife and him were real mad about people using "horton hears a who" as an anti-abortion thing 21:25:45 i read it ages ago when i found it in a school library 21:25:58 as i recall my immediate reaction was 'jesus what the fuck' 21:26:05 man, a lot of the roald dahl books i read were published in the 80s 21:26:13 they... felt a lot older, somehow 21:26:24 Phantom_Hoover: well, that's, pretty dark. 21:26:28 the only other story i remember from that collection was something to do with a guy betting his daughter on a friend not being able to work out where some wine is from 21:26:29 never heard of it before now. 21:26:49 I have, however, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Jelly_(short_story) 21:27:00 Which is pretty "jesus what the fuck" inducing. 21:27:23 ...wait, there was a Twilight Zone Magazine? 21:27:25 Phantom_Hoover: i think i'm having a "jesus christ what the fuck" moment about The Witches right now 21:27:31 what was up with that book 21:27:44 n.b. my recollections are very vague 21:27:44 i think i had that moment whilst actually reading it 21:27:49 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:27:54 mnoqy: hi 21:27:54 it was a bit too jesus christ what the fuck even for my young mind 21:28:00 Hey 21:28:04 huh 21:28:08 what does that mean 21:28:15 i think The Witches is pretty much a wakeup call for lots of kids 21:28:30 mnoqy: you missed out on some good -lens 21:28:43 Bike, that what, roald dahl books are extremely weird? 21:28:47 yeah. 21:29:12 also that women are evil "wake up sheeple" 21:29:33 imagine a time where people could use the word "sheeple" without immediately giggling. could it exist 21:29:46 wasn't it originally made up as a joke? 21:29:53 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/TheWitches.jpg 21:30:12 Alternative forms: sheople 21:30:16 how can you look at this and think it is anything but some kind of surreal horror novel 21:30:26 Bike: wow that short story synopsis 21:30:35 was the witches the book with the mouse maker 21:30:38 elliott: it's weirder actually reading it, i assure you 21:30:41 shachaf: yeah 21:30:52 my parents got me a roald dahl omnibus with that story and others like it in it 21:31:00 @wn omnibus 21:31:01 *** "omnibus" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 21:31:01 omnibus 21:31:01 adj 1: providing for many things at once; "an omnibus law" 21:31:01 n 1: an anthology of articles on a related subject or an 21:31:01 anthology of the works of a single author 21:31:03 i was pretty much beyond the "kid" stage by then, but still, jfc 21:31:03 [4 @more lines] 21:31:11 wow weird word 21:31:15 was the witches the book with the mouse maker 21:31:15 Good word. 21:31:17 aah, the one with the mice and something ... I don't remember what else it was about, but vaguely recall liking it 21:31:27 yes and the ending is the protagonist getting turned into a mouse 21:31:35 Haha, oh man. 21:31:39 and he's like "oh i guess i only have 9 years left to live, cool" 21:31:49 «The Wall Street Journal first reported the label ["sheeple"] in print in 1984; the reporter heard the word used by the proprietor of an American Opinion bookstore affiliated with the John Birch Society.[1] In this usage, taxpayers were derided for their blind conformity as opposed to those who thought independently.» 21:31:50 Phantom_Hoover: man i think that ending gave me emotional issues 21:31:56 john birch society is the best imo 21:32:01 Phantom_Hoover: i was like... would i be okay with being a mouse 21:32:22 Bike: wait, wait. holy shit. i thought sheeple was like, an archaic or made up plural or singular or something of "sheep" 21:32:28 Bike: it's... literally sheep + people... 21:32:33 eh? no it's- yeah. 21:32:34 what 21:32:39 how dumb are you elliott 21:32:41 elliott: you didn't know? 21:32:50 haven't you ever heard "a sheeperson" 21:33:02 man "people" is such a weird fucking word though 21:33:04 i think the essential lesson one must learn from roald dahl is that children themselves are essentially evil 21:33:07 apparently it's from etruscan?? what 21:33:13 i said essential twice that's not good 21:33:14 sheeple is now even funnier to me 21:33:25 ok so back to my emotional issues re: being a mouse 21:33:32 "Originally a singular noun (e.g. The people is hungry, and weary, and thirsty, in the wilderness --2 Samuel 17:29, King James Version)" this is bullshit 21:33:35 mice are pretty cool 21:33:37 don't think i'd want to be one 21:33:43 well i was like 21:33:49 shit i wouldn't be able to do anything 21:33:53 everything would have to do things for me 21:33:58 Having returned home, the boy and his grandmother then concoct a plan to destroy all of the world's witches. Learning the location of the witches castle from the hotel's records, they will travel to the Grand High Witch's Norwegian castle (having stolen her notebook), use the potion to change her successor and retainers into mice, then release cats into the castle to kill them. Using the Grand High Witch's money-making machine and information ... 21:33:58 ...and that's how I got where I am today 21:33:59 maybe if i could be like, every mouse? that might be ok. 21:34:04 ... on the whereabouts of all of the world's witches, they will repeat the process all over the world. The grandmother also reveals that as a mouse, the boy will probably only live about another nine years, but the boy doesn't mind it, because he doesn't want to live any longer than his grandmother. 21:34:09 i didn't remember that........ 21:34:11 Bike: like a rat king 21:34:12 mice have small brains so probably oyu wouldn't care 21:34:17 elliott: exactly 21:34:34 there's a jbs haldane story with a rat king 21:34:37 Bike: how would you like to be 100 elephants 21:34:37 being turned into a mouse is probably kind of like dying 21:34:47 Being an elephant sounds uncomfortable. 21:35:02 i said 100 elephants 21:35:03 http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=143 21:35:14 jbs haldane's stories are like roald dahl except you look back on them and are like "wow that is ridiculous in a good way" 21:35:27 Er. Haldane wrote kids books? 21:35:30 yes 21:35:36 i have mentioned this to you before 21:35:44 OK, yes, I think you have. 21:35:47 It's still really weird though. 21:35:57 there was a book by terry pratchett with a rat king 21:35:59 the ones where he has a wizard friend and he fights capitalism and goes to india 21:36:05 He's like... oh, right. 21:36:12 That makes less lack of sense. 21:36:12 did you read it 21:36:52 and there's an unrelated one where some brothers try to defeat rats with science 21:36:59 -!- hr_ has joined. 21:37:12 and another one about a south american silver baron getting eaten by an alligator? 21:37:21 and one about the narrator's magic collar stud 21:39:44 i don't even recall anything massively racist which considering the geographical scope is p. impressive 21:42:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:44:48 Switch Bitch is a 1974 short story collection for adults by Roald Dahl. The book is made up of four stories: "The Visitor," "The Great Switcheroo," "The Last Act," and "Bitch". 21:44:51 The stories had been written by Dahl for Playboy magazine and published separately in 1965.[1] 21:47:35 that's quite the name 21:50:42 `addquote would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners 21:50:46 1046) would not be surprised to find out this tumblr is guerilla marketing by wolfram co to sell mathematica to stoners 21:51:16 kmc, i want to see this tumblr 21:51:19 and i want to hate it 21:51:20 `? drugz 21:51:22 drugz? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:51:38 Phantom_Hoover: intothecontinuum 21:51:48 it has pretty pictures so it's hard to hate 21:53:01 (thank god, i was worried for a minute it'd be matthen) 21:53:30 wait 21:53:31 ahahaahaa 21:53:39 his latest post links to main is usually a function 21:53:47 i laugh but i am also terrified 21:54:52 matthen? 21:55:09 also, wha, where 21:55:23 re: miuaf 21:55:51 uh, remember that javascript thing where you fly a rocket around in a 2d solar system 21:55:52 the [more] link, it looks like 21:56:03 that was him 21:56:26 kmc, oerjan: Do you think the whole "discrete calculus" thing is related to types? <-- i dunno hth 21:57:07 except he also maths tutored me a couple years back to stop my brain from atrophying so i was already on edge wrt people in real life being on the internet 21:57:23 i bet kmc didn't even read that pdf 21:57:45 because of the 1 <-- also the e hth 21:57:52 mnoqy: where 22:02:03 elliott: on matthens thingy 22:02:14 oh ok i misinterpreted 22:02:22 ps how come everyone knows this matthen persons blog and not me 22:02:25 i mean i remember the thingy but still 22:02:36 oh uh 22:02:37 i dont know the blog 22:02:37 http://blog.matthen.com/post/51566631087/quasicrystals-are-highly-structured-patterns-which 22:02:39 i just figured to check 22:02:42 since ph mentioned it 22:02:46 that is the post maybe i should've linked 22:03:12 maybe i should try to know a thing or two about computational linguistics 22:04:05 oh dear, i just remembered he works in speech recognition 22:04:11 linking elliott to him was a bad idea 22:04:22 thank you, i was just about to click the link 22:04:35 why does elliott not like speech recognition 22:04:37 did fizzie kick him 22:06:40 elliott, well if kmc was referred to in a post about speech recognition... 22:08:23 speech recognition is cute and not worth hating 22:08:32 mnoqy: it's fucking terrible. like biology 22:08:40 biology is cute and not worth hating 22:08:43 speech recognition is the best 22:08:46 Bike: have you seen how he reacts to it? it's great 22:09:37 who reacts to what 22:09:48 fizzie 22:09:52 Bike: haha this robert gottlieb letter to dahl is great 22:09:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:01 oh god 22:10:52 did the bfg actually stand for the big fucking giant originally. i hope so 22:11:23 haah, standing ovation 22:12:44 well no i haven't seen such reactions 22:12:53 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:14:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:18:30 "We love your books, but we have a problem... we are Jews!!" 22:18:33 The Problem 22:19:25 if only there was a solution i feel bad now 22:20:33 it's ok Phantom_Hoover i would have said it if you didn't 22:21:10 why does this article about dahl finish with a bunch of death cab for cutie mp3s 22:21:40 It's appropriate. 22:25:32 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:26:03 2 deep 4 me 22:26:30 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:26:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:33:09 The Scottish concept of the "Caledonian antisyzygy", the duality of a single entity, is a key driving force in Scottish literature, and it appears especially prominently in the Tartan Noir genre. -- wp 22:33:39 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:33:43 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:33:45 those words are made up right. 22:34:05 kilts in detective noir sounds good though 22:34:13 i swear to god it's an actual article with that actual quote 22:34:37 i don't think inspector rebus wore a kilt with any regularity 22:38:07 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:39:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:41:21 shachaf: i found out that Josh follows two Twitter feeds 22:41:25 @caltrain and @_FloridaMan 22:41:25 Unknown command, try @list 22:41:47 should be a command. 22:41:53 CALTRAAAAAIN 22:42:41 kmc: Do you need anything else? 22:43:29 "Please bring me news of the trains in this province, and the fools of the far away swamp country" 22:44:11 is Josh "into trainz" 22:44:13 kmc: should i take caltrain 22:44:18 shachaf: fairly yes 22:44:23 elliott: not if you can help it 22:44:28 is Josh "into drugz too" 22:44:30 kmc: is it bad 22:44:33 elliott: yes 22:44:37 kmc: sounds great 22:44:44 maybe it's rude to ask 22:44:52 never mind 22:44:53 maybe 22:45:00 http://www.caltrain.com/Assets/Buttons/Large+Middle+Buttons/2013+Giants+Baseball.gif caltrain watches sports 22:45:03 elliott: You should take Caltrain! 22:45:18 it looks excited 22:45:27 kmc is not a number(ed inmate in the prison-industrial system on trumped up drug charges), he is a free individual 22:45:38 yeah little known fact, the caltrain tracks run straight through AT&T Park at grade 22:45:53 Bike: how free 22:45:55 kmc, have you advanced to the point of actual trainspotting 22:46:16 shachaf: fucking like, twelve free, at least 22:46:24 trains potting is when you smoke the weed marihuana on trains 22:46:28 kmc's favourite activity 22:46:31 trains just come through blasting the horn without stopping 22:46:42 baseball players have to run for their lives 22:46:46 http://www.theonion.com/articles/toddler-junkie-immediately-hooked-on-looking-at-tr,32025/ 22:46:56 ☝ kmc 22:46:57 kmc: i've chosen to to believe that what you are saying is true 22:46:58 COOL IDEA: what if you had, like, a train, but it runs on, weed 22:47:07 like you shovel the weed into the engine to make it go 22:47:11 i know there are airports like what kmc describes 22:47:15 frankly terrifying 22:47:18 where? 22:47:21 slash what. 22:47:25 lithuania 22:47:29 (i just made that up) 22:47:37 well like, you know how in gibraltar there's so little land that a highway goes through the airport runway 22:47:40 it's like that 22:47:43 ah yeah 22:47:43 mnoqy: does weed come out of the bit where the smoke comes out 22:47:44 but w/ trains 22:47:46 that's terrifying 22:47:49 do the animals in the farms get hhhhigh 22:48:04 wait so the train crosses the runway at grade?? 22:48:16 what's "at grade", like, at a slope? i doubt it 22:48:24 you only get high inside the train when driving through tunnels 22:48:32 elliott: you pipe the smoke through the passenger cars hth 22:48:33 it means "on the same level" rather than in a tunnel or a bride or shit 22:48:33 like that awful bit of atlas shrug i hear of 22:48:52 AW citizenship is goinf free 22:48:59 crossing the runway on a bride?? 22:49:02 sounds dangerous 22:49:05 oh Sgeo... 22:49:05 Sgeo: oh? 22:49:11 goinf 22:49:16 going 22:49:26 Don't know whether to be happy, or worried 22:49:35 why do you not mean advance wars. 22:49:37 Cybertown went free too for its last year or so of its existence 22:50:11 you should be happy that aw is dying and you can actually grow up finally 22:50:17 oh wow i didn't make this up! 22:50:23 A unique level crossing exist near Gisborne, in which the Palmerston North - Gisborne Line crosses one of Gisborne Airport's runways. Aircraft landing on sealed 1310-metre runway 14L/32R are signalled with two red flashing lights on either side of the runway and a horizontal bar of flashing red lights to indicate the runway south of the railway line is closed, and may only land on the 866 m section of the runway north of the railway line. Whe 22:50:55 the runway at gibraltar infamously runs right across the only road in and out of it 22:51:07 Bike: awesome 22:51:16 Bike: "line. Whe" 22:51:38 Use your imagination. 22:51:46 I DONT HAVR ONE 22:51:47 pics? 22:52:26 its insensitive to ask for pics of my nonexistent imaginatinon kmc 22:52:27 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:52:34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh-gL7_UgHs i guess 22:52:42 * Bike googles, finds http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3680915019_4e8a1661ba.jpg?v=1246541217, calls it good despite that not being it 22:53:33 hm, this airway forum (what) couldn't find a good photo 22:53:50 that video has it at like 3:00 22:53:55 kmc: what do you think of leland stanford, i heard he liked trains 22:54:03 he's a robber baron 22:54:07 yes 22:54:13 https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gisborne+airport+new+zealand&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.489543,69.082031&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Gisborne+Airport,+New+Zealand&ll=-38.667401,177.978387&spn=0.008059,0.016866&t=h&z=16 aha 22:54:18 are you saying you're not a fan 22:54:24 dunno 22:54:38 good lord the editing in this video 22:55:04 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:55:28 PLAAAAANE TRAAAAAIN: http://bvargo.net/f/plane_train.jpg TRAAAAAIN PLAAAAANE: http://myairplanes.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/an-225-dan-ka1.jpg 22:56:05 excellent 22:56:16 so where did the CAAAALTRAAAIN thing come from 22:56:26 they should make the train plane a regular thin 22:56:32 which thing 22:56:41 you mean the all-uppercase, multiple-A thing???? 22:56:47 a regular thing 22:57:19 there's a channel for everyone who likes trains: #cslounge-trains 22:59:40 the mysterious cslounge 23:03:09 is cslounge good? it sounds like something that would be bad 23:04:00 it depends on if u like counterstrike.......................... 23:04:12 :) 23:07:06 but #cslounge-trains is for people who like trains 23:07:14 and maybe for people who like people who like trains 23:07:27 what about people who like people who like trains 23:07:29 tho trains are kind of rubbing off on me..... 23:07:58 I take trains every weekday. Therefore I am obligated to join. 23:08:01 #kmcspotting 23:12:44 kmcspotting could be a movie about death in the startup industry. scored by clint mansell 23:13:14 Sgeo: aren't you obligated to join every channel mentioned on irc 23:13:37 elliott, yes, except for one. 23:14:04 one, eh? 23:14:10 Sgeo: what is that one 23:14:34 The auto-kline channel I happen to know of 23:15:18 i don't think there are any auto-kline channels on freenode 23:15:28 imo join it and find out 23:15:39 i know of some that are locked out and redirect to a "no" channel tho 23:15:52 what is this channel, i'll try it on my local connection 23:17:16 00:17 -!- Topic for #Thai-Help: Leave this channel right away or you'll be banned from the network! 23:17:19 00:17 -!- Topic set by BearPerson [] [Sun Apr 22 16:37:07 2007] 23:17:22 00:17 [Users #thai-help] 23:17:24 yo sgeo i'm pretty sure someone was fucking with you 23:17:26 00:17 [@ChanServ] [ testingblamesgeo] [ tomaw] 23:17:27 beaut 23:18:00 you can join it now 23:18:14 * #Thai-Help :End of /NAMES list 23:18:31 you can't list names of most channels you're not in... 23:18:40 try /names #haskell-lens for example 23:18:53 Hm 23:19:07 how did you determine this channel was an auto-kline exactly 23:19:17 It was discussed on #freenode 23:19:57 There is also a log of another chatroom that mentions it 23:20:47 http://ircarchive.info/perl/2007/5/19/89.html 23:21:34 I joined this channel and now I can't access freenode anymore. What's going on? 23:21:37 Apologies for the inconvenience. Due to problems with drones and automated clonebots, we've had to institute automated network bans when clients join certain channels. Please contact support at freenode dot net, providing your IP address to be unbanned. 23:21:41 wow they actually do it 23:21:42 It is +PQ 23:21:42 ok, well, that's boring, so, has anyone else been reading up on this "D-Wave Controversy": http://www.archduke.org/stuff/d-wave-comment-on-comparison-with-classical-computers/ 23:21:42 well this faq could just be outdated ofc 23:21:58 Bike: scott aaronson has been going on about them for years 23:22:02 it's pretty funny that this company made this computer thing and nobody's even sure if it actually works? 23:22:07 yeah that's where i got this 23:22:10 Sgeo: anyway #thai-help certainly doesn't ban you now 23:22:22 The modes +PQ kind of suggests that 23:22:31 i don't know what +PQ does 23:22:53 +P is permanent, +Q is you cannot be forwarded to this channel. 23:22:55 -NickServ- Last addr : ~karsten@sourcemage/wizard/freenode.staff-emeritus.BearPerson 23:23:48 that topic was set in 2007 23:24:02 i accept it likely actually did autoban you in 2007 23:24:13 i somewhat suspect that no channel currently does however 23:26:11 Well, the +PQ mode, the topic message (I cannot see it; it is set you cannot be seen unless you joined), and the "freenode.staff-emeritus" all suggest that at least it used to, or was intended to, at one time, ban you. 23:27:08 do you think you could get hep with thai food 23:27:10 i hear it's pretty good 23:27:13 help* 23:28:09 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:30:23 does anyone know if there is an easy way to get youtube to play 480p instead of 360p by default 23:30:26 it really annoys me 23:31:31 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 23:31:34 -!- elieser2241 has left. 23:32:06 if someone tells you, tell me 23:32:23 elieser2241: FUCK YOU 23:32:57 elieser 23:32:59 gonzalez 23:33:24 what is with that elieser guy 23:34:24 Bike: do you also hate those videos where changing the quality doesn't immediately reload but instead the cog thing kinda spins a bit and then it switches over smoothly at some point but the problem is when it starts the 480p video the scaling is a bit weird and it looks slightly off (like it's deinterlaced or something??) so you have to fullscreen it and exit that to get it looking right (this applies to all videos not just these) but it's not obvi 23:34:30 probably not 23:35:02 http://24.media.tumblr.com/409ffce04839d2aced409327386fe26f/tumblr_mn6o2cJqx51rf4cqeo1_400.png did i link this? oh well. 23:35:06 elliott: god that's terrible 23:35:10 elliott, i hate them 23:35:11 so much 23:35:24 Bike: wow 23:35:25 also The Joke is that because of my shitty connection it would actually be 240p->360p for me 23:35:31 Bike: that it bothers me and i have to fullscreen and exit all the videos or the videos themselves 23:35:42 just in general 23:35:43 terrible 23:35:51 Phantom_Hoover: i feel like people aren't being sincere here!! are you sure you notice them being fucked before you fullscreen them 23:36:01 yes 23:36:06 ok 23:36:08 i'm glad i'm not alone 23:36:14 generally it's 360->1080 for me 23:36:21 fuck you 23:36:22 Bike: that's a good picture 23:36:27 my connection and computer aren't good enough for that 23:36:32 i do 760p.... very occasionally 23:36:36 er i mean 720p 23:36:37 what you have to understand is, i get my internet through a network of cans tied together with taut strings 23:36:54 man, and i thought my connection was shitty 23:37:03 i like the idea of "maize" being formal 23:37:07 is it considered formal 23:37:07 Phantom_Hoover: well ok 23:37:12 my connection can do 1080p now 23:37:25 ok but the worst part is 23:37:28 youtube broke the fucking ?fmt= url thing 23:37:33 so you can't even do it there before you load the page 23:37:35 why the fuck 23:37:56 ?hd=1 23:37:56 Unknown command, try @list 23:37:58 ALSO i don't trust that the ones where the cog spins a lot actually always change the quality 23:38:09 This page was previously nominated to be moved. Please review the discussions and previous page moves if considering re-nomination: RM, Maize -> Corn, No consensus, 20 June 2007, Talk:Maize/Archive 2#Requested Move RM, Maize -> Corn, No consensus, 21 February 2011, Talk:Maize/Archive 3#Requested move 23:38:15 ion: hey that worked this time 23:38:28 ty 23:38:32 Maize is a selected article on the Food Portal, which means that it has been identified as a high quality article by Food Portal standards. 23:39:04 Corn as transitive verb 23:39:49 oh my god half the talk page archives are about this 23:39:59 International bias vs. American bias 23:40:43 remember, not following US usage is "anti-American" 23:40:46 well, the majority of ENGLISH speakers say corn. Why shouldn't it be Corn(maize)??? It makes NO SENSE??WacoJacko 06:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC) 23:41:04 he uses eleven question marks for this issue 23:41:24 huh, does "corn" mean "grain" in the UK? that's news to me 23:43:09 i guess so? 23:43:23 ask Phantom_Hoover 23:43:37 Phantom_Hoover: isn't elliott british and can tell me this himself 23:44:13 -!- elieser224 has joined. 23:44:22 `e 23:44:23 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 23:44:31 `relcome elieser224 23:44:34 ​elieser224: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:44:43 -!- elieser224 has left. 23:45:02 what's the deal 23:45:05 bye 23:45:49 we should fix the e 23:45:51 can mnoqy do it 23:46:01 alt can we get fizzie to ban them 23:46:11 apparently the only thing they have said is "hola", and that was after several join/part cycles 23:46:15 did anything happen with that what's his name guy 23:46:32 gasoline/newstalker 23:46:49 http://irc.canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/historicos/mychan20130516_pg8.html hm they are in this other freenode channel (found by googling) but don't do the /part thing there 23:46:55 -!- augur has joined. 23:47:41 instead they do the ping timeout thing 23:48:03 A venezuelan linux distro. 23:48:31 "It is primarily designed as a solution for the computers of National Public Administration in accordance with the presidential decree number 3.390 about the use of free technologies in National Public Administration in the country. " well then 23:48:39 Bike: did you see http://rubydoc.info/gems/rubysdl/2.1.2/frames 23:51:35 ruby????????????? 23:52:06 kmc: this documentation is how i feel 23:52:13 ??????????????????????OpenGL?????????????????????????????? 23:52:24 ????????????????????????????????????????(??????????????MPEG??????????????????????????)?? 23:52:43 `run cat e 23:52:45 cat: e: No such file or directory 23:52:48 `run cat bin/e 23:52:50 echo "eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal" 23:53:05 `run e|r 23:53:07 bash: r: command not found 23:53:09 `run e|rainbow 23:53:11 ​eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 23:53:20 hm 23:54:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:56:39 kmc: /set show_nickmode_empty off # hth 23:56:50 i agree w/ shachaf 23:57:40 -!- dessos has joined. 23:58:12 Bike: "u gotta say maize" 23:58:30 just think about how great corn mazes are 23:58:32 when you say maize 23:58:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:59:21 woow 2013-06-03: 00:03:32 -!- Bike has joined. 00:10:25 kmc: when's your interview 00:10:48 andor flight 00:11:07 kmc's flying to andor? 00:11:30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andor 00:11:32 Andor may refer to: 00:11:34 And/or, logical conjunction 00:11:39 oerjan: plz fix thx 00:21:15 interview tomorrow @ 11am 00:21:19 flight the day after in afternoon 00:22:25 how can you do anything at 11 am 00:23:49 kmc: do the trains at at&t park go at 3mph like in palo alto 00:25:34 elliott: drugz 00:25:36 caffeinez 00:25:52 you can't use the caffeinz when you're still asleepz 00:27:01 you can when you have an iv drip hth 00:27:15 hack ur bloodstream 00:28:35 Great life hacks: DIY IV caffeine drip 00:29:12 only kmc is that into drugz 00:30:35 * pikhq_ sputters a bit at Haswell. 00:30:45 hm? 00:30:50 So, they're sticking GPU RAM on-die. 00:30:57 i think i can go with almost arbitrarily little sleep, for one night 00:30:58 It's being shared with the CPU as L4 cache. 00:31:02 i have a need for speed 00:31:04 nice 00:31:05 oh 00:31:19 That is to say, shortly there will be CPUs with 128M L4. 00:31:50 good 00:31:54 what's the latency 00:32:21 i'd like a job that starts at 2 pm please & thank you 00:32:34 Um... ~30 ns? 00:33:05 i was looking at http://duartes.org/gustavo/blog/post/what-your-computer-does-while-you-wait again 00:33:38 "To put this into perspective, reading from L1 cache is like grabbing a piece of paper from your desk (3 seconds), L2 cache is picking up a book from a nearby shelf (14 seconds), and main system memory is taking a 4-minute walk down the hall to buy a Twix bar.... Keeping with the office analogy, waiting for a hard drive seek is like leaving the building to roam the earth for one year and three months." 00:34:28 computers, actually based on twixes 00:34:31 that sounds like poor time management 00:34:41 josh has given a review of "Sketches of Spain" by Miles Davis 00:34:44 what do you have against twix mnoqy 00:34:45 computers have a need to be free and spiritual. 00:34:48 "it sounds like how i imagine spain might sound like" 00:34:53 ok who is this josh guy you're all suddenly talking about. 00:34:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:57 elliott: well, mostly the roaming the earth part 00:35:02 tosh.0 00:35:10 i was just wandering the earth before i stopped being afk 00:35:12 doyou hate me 00:35:24 elliott: a friend of mine who shachaf had the (mis)fortune of meeting 00:35:26 * kmc → afk 00:35:40 no, i just think maybe you should consider investing your time in something better 00:36:05 Bike: thats a euphemism for "yes i h8 u" 00:36:06 btw what's the internet in this analogy 00:36:07 mnoqy: i think you'll find roaming the earth is more fun than a job 00:36:10 a trip to pluto? 00:36:16 Bike: it's the internet 00:36:20 the internet is looking something up on the internet 00:36:24 but you have a really slow connection 00:36:30 so it takes a million years to load google 00:36:32 oh no :( 00:36:38 and you die 00:36:38 elliott: yeah but just think of all the twixes you could buy in a year and three months 00:36:44 elliott: oh no 00:36:44 mnoqy: i'm seeing your point 00:36:50 elliott: is that what packet loss is 00:36:59 TODO: spend a year buying twixes, i bet i could make a popular blog around this concept 00:37:00 mnoqy: how about all the Flakes you could buy 00:37:14 mnoqy: have you ever had a Flake, i have 00:37:20 i've never had a flake 00:37:25 elliott: call it "Instead Of Reading From Disk", confuse everyone 00:37:27 except us 00:37:53 mnoqy: want a flake 00:38:00 i miss cpressey already 00:38:12 cpressey: i miss you too 00:38:56 jsvine is gone too. 00:39:01 is there nothing left? 00:39:11 did the interview even really happen 00:39:27 maybe we all just did a bunch of drugs on an island or something 00:39:54 the esolangers interview was later made into a popular TV show, The Prisoner 00:40:09 mnoqy: the term is "drugz" now 00:40:16 Bike: Haaah. 00:40:46 I'd rather be in Twin Peaks but i don't think we have what it takes. 00:41:28 mnoqy: If the interview is logged, does that mean the log also did a bunch of drugz on an island or something? 00:42:31 it could happen 00:45:22 Trip to Pluto? But, which glyph do you want to use for Pluto? (I like the "PL" glyph; the other one is too similar to the Neptune glyph.) 00:47:48 i don't think i'd want to go to pluto 00:48:13 y would u go to pluto it s not even a planet 00:48:29 It is too far away; I don't want to go there, either. 00:48:38 There are other problems too. 00:48:54 wtf, cpressey left 00:48:56 ok 00:49:04 are we sure the entire jsvine episode wasn't just a fever-dream 00:49:13 can you imagine: pluto became a planet in 1930 and stopped being one in 2006 00:49:25 i mean let's face it, it's incredibly improbably 00:49:27 *improbable 00:49:37 Well, look at the logs; if it is in the logs, then it isn't just a fever-dream (unless the logs are also a fever-dream) 00:49:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:50:02 that's only 76 years of being a planet 00:50:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:50:04 I don't like the IAU's new definition of a planet; I think both Pluto and Eris should be considered planets too, and so do some others. 00:50:10 raymond smullyan was discovered before pluto 00:50:45 Phantom_Hoover: well he said he wouldn't be around much post-interview 00:50:46 But even if you follow the IAU's definition and call them dwarf planets and not planets, all the dwarf planets also ought to have glyphs assigned. 00:50:48 now it has to spend the rest of its life not being a planet "how do you think it feels" 00:51:03 shachaf: i like the trivia of it not completing an orbit in the entire time it was a planet 00:51:17 better luck next time, kuiper belt object 00:51:38 and when i say "next time" i mean when humans are dead or whatever and some other species comes along and calls you a planet and then stops calling you a planet 00:51:53 TRY TO MAKE IT LAST! 00:52:03 Some of them already do have glyphs, I have seen listed on some webpage about astrology, I don't think the IAU uses them, though (they don't care about astrology). But I think it doesn't matter if you don't care about astrology, you can use them anyways, including astronomy. 00:53:00 holy shit jon ronson's guardian columns are online 00:53:04 must avoid urge to binge 00:54:24 There are also two glyphs for Uranus; which one do you want to use? 00:55:19 second one 00:55:39 third one 00:55:57 Second one? Third one? In what list are these the second and third one? 00:56:51 "maybe they won't be as good if you read them now", i thought 00:56:59 i was wrong 00:57:21 Phantom_Hoover: the great thing about saying "Maybe" is that you can't be wrong 00:57:24 hth 00:57:38 no 00:57:52 i realise now that it was a fundamental impossibility for them not to be amazing 00:58:16 oh, the men who stare at goats 00:58:20 i have a copy and i still haven't read it 00:58:37 what's he usually write about 00:58:38 is he dead 01:00:03 well his guardian columns were just his daily life written up in an incredibly funny way 01:00:16 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/sep/11/weekend.jonronson is the first 01:02:53 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jan/15/weekend.jonronson oh my god 01:04:28 good story 01:08:12 my name is jon ronson, i work in wisconsin 01:09:02 -!- TastyToast has joined. 01:10:19 So I just posted a new language on the wiki ( http://esolangs.org/wiki/Binaryfuck ), but I'm curious to know if anything similar has been done before. Does this look similar to anyone? I feel like the possibilities that I was the first one to think of something like this would be very slim 01:10:45 now you've done it, TastyToast 01:11:06 get out of here while you still have a chance 01:11:27 there are bricks that you haven't even... you have no idea 01:11:28 it looks similar to brainfuck and also a billion other brainfuck equivalents 01:11:36 I think someone else has done similar thing 01:11:42 ook 01:11:44 fuckfuck 01:11:53 blub 01:11:56 But it is better than the similar ones, actually 01:11:59 there is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spoon 01:12:04 doesn't this exact thing exist 01:12:26 brainfnord 01:12:38 ellipsis 01:12:52 TastyToast: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Triplet the most similar 01:12:53 well, Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php is best 01:12:58 Bike: ty 01:13:12 yw 01:13:24 wordfuck, verbosefuck 01:13:38 zzz 01:13:42 My own way would be a bit different: The least significant bits correspond to the first instruction of the program, and ] is zero. This way the program ends automatically. 01:13:55 god damn why are there so many brainfuck equivalents just kill me 01:14:12 Headsecks 01:14:20 basically, toastytoast, it's similar to everything done before, and there is nothing new under the sun. before god we are all but dust. praise be unto him, you vanity of vainness 01:14:23 pogaack 01:14:39 ascii art 01:14:39 I think a binary encoding of BF should specify how to pad to fit into an integer number of bytes 01:14:43 hm i find the 2001 claim on triplet's article suspect 01:14:48 bytes suck 01:14:53 given the username TripletMaker and the "fork" from Ook! article claim 01:14:56 suspect it should be 2011 instead 01:15:20 if A is a language, what is P(A) and NP(A) again? 01:15:21 Phantom_Hoover: pls link more jon ronson articles 01:15:26 oOo code is pretty simialr too http://esolangs.org/wiki/OOo_CODE 01:15:33 and mgifos 01:15:44 revolution 9 01:15:45 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/sep/25/weekend.jonronson 01:15:58 hi Phantom_Hoover 01:16:13 -!- hr_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:16:16 well, I knew it couldnt have been similar 01:16:23 there once was a fish named fred 01:16:30 freddy the fish 01:16:35 unary 01:16:45 So.. Aren't all turing complete languages essentially brainfuck 01:16:51 Phantom_Hoover: birth of a weeaboo 01:17:04 TastyToast: no ☺ 01:17:05 TastyToast: only in a sense that's less boring than the sense in which all the binary codings of brainfuck are brainfuck. 01:17:44 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/oct/02/weekend.jonronson 01:18:00 well, we all gotta start somewhere 01:18:01 :) 01:18:07 quite 01:18:14 i guess it's like starting out conlanging with a relex 01:18:20 ification 01:18:24 i don't think that's actually a word but 01:18:30 02:15:45 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/sep/25/weekend.jonronson 01:18:33 this one was fantastic 01:18:47 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/oct/09/weekend.jonronson 01:18:59 yes, it was 01:20:41 wow these are so good 01:21:25 Oh, he says. 01:22:34 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/oct/23/weekend.jonronson 01:23:54 (have you all figured out how to work the guardian website and can i stop linking these) 01:24:08 no and no 01:25:08 TastyToast, i hear you made a brainfuck derivative, i hate you, i will brick your brain, etc. 01:25:18 back to ronson http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/nov/06/weekend.jonronson 01:30:15 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/nov/27/weekend.jonronson 01:31:59 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/dec/04/weekend.jonronson and on this chilling note i will end tonight's ronson session 01:32:26 noooo 01:35:35 ==elliott 01:35:48 you realise you can click on the author's name and get a list of all his articles ever right 01:35:53 IT'S NOT THE SAME 01:36:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:36:06 -!- TastyToast has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:36:12 ==elliott 01:36:24 i went to the 97¢ Store today 01:36:31 glad to see the race to the bottom continues unabated 01:37:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:37:08 kmc: did they have pizza 01:38:34 no 01:40:39 kmc, so is that like poundland but with a shittier gimmick 01:40:45 and even shittier wares, i guess 01:41:03 i think i once saw something that didn't cost a pound in poundland 01:41:08 i think i was scandalised 01:41:32 hang on hang on "poundland"........................................? 01:42:23 yeah 'dollar store' is a common genre of store and often it's 99¢ store or 98¢ store, and sometimes 97¢ 01:43:00 ohhh 01:43:10 i remember dollar stores in .il 01:43:12 isn't a pound worth likea billion dollars. 01:43:16 i was thinking "so what, they don't have dollar stores in america for some crazy reason" 01:43:33 "they need to make it 97 cents? for tax reasons?" 01:43:35 they used to have things for ₪4 each 01:43:46 no..... 01:43:55 it was ₪5 01:43:59 and then ₪4 01:44:01 or something 01:44:05 those are the prices i remember anyway 01:44:52 87¢ store 01:45:50 Eventually there's a 1¢ store, and they figure they've cornered the market, but the ½¢ store just charges by pairs of items. 01:46:02 Gregor: did you read that one story.............................. 01:46:04 _The Bottle Imp_ 01:46:09 @google the bottle imp 01:46:09 also not all of the things in the 97/ store are 97¢ 01:46:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bottle_Imp 01:46:10 Title: The Bottle Imp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 01:46:16 @google the bottle imp text 01:46:17 http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/bottlimp.htm 01:46:17 Title: The bottle imp (1893) by Robert Louis Stevenson 01:46:20 usually the full store name is like "99¢ CENTS OR LESS and up" 01:46:25 with the "and up" in much smaller letters 01:46:33 ☝ good short story hth 01:46:52 wut 01:47:08 Phantom_Hoover: i need more articles 01:47:08 1893 01:47:12 Robert Louis Stevenson 01:48:11 no elliott you have to learn to delay gratification 01:48:32 Phantom_Hoover: no i don't 01:48:36 that's a made up thing 01:48:39 alternately: bring back news-ham and i'll keep the articles flowing 01:48:45 how... how could you 01:49:00 how could YOU lose the source??? 01:49:00 what's news-ham 01:49:18 or allow something so perfect to be deactivated so callously 01:49:27 -!- news-ham has joined. 01:49:35 Oh. 01:49:48 what are the haps my friends 01:50:01 bbc.co.uk 01:50:32 news-ham: hi 01:50:38 news-ham: that's not how it works... 01:50:48 that's awful 01:50:50 -!- news-ham has quit (Client Quit). 01:51:06 i would retract the articles i have linked if i could 01:51:27 news-ham sounds like a job in Hamtaro, the hit children's cartoon 01:52:28 Phantom_Hoover: Are you asfjad? 01:53:06 no 01:53:09 probably nobody here knows who asfjad is, shachaf 01:53:31 mnoqy: news-ham is asfjad 01:53:40 no, news-ham is dajfsa 01:54:14 asfjad is dajfsa too 01:54:20 hm, that makes sense 01:54:40 also this person is..........."mighty suspicious"......... 01:54:48 have we ever seen this "dajfsa" around before 01:56:01 -!- irene-knapp has joined. 02:01:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:06:49 -!- dessos has left. 02:17:36 -!- augur has joined. 02:27:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:55:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:03 -!- augur has joined. 02:58:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:50 I have been in dollar stores, the prices usually range from $0.30 to $1.25 and are usually $1.00 on average; sometimes there are more expensive items but they are still usually cost less than those things would ordinarily cost. 03:38:37 mostly because the things are made very cheaply :) 04:01:56 -!- irene-knapp has left. 04:03:38 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:06:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:11:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:27:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:29:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:33:13 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:43:34 -!- clog has joined. 04:43:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:44:00 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:50:45 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:52:57 According to Wikipedia, "An axiom system discovered by Jan Lukasiewicz formulates a propositional calculus in this language as follows": (p -> (p -> q)), ((p -> (q -> r)) -> ((p -> q) -> (p -> r))), ((~p -> ~q) -> (q -> p)), (p, (p -> q) |- q). Without the third one, this seems the SK calculus. Did Lukasiewicz invent the SK calculus? 04:54:48 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:55:34 Could it be replaced with the "fantasy rule" to make lambda calculus? 04:56:45 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:59:37 -!- augur has joined. 05:13:40 Which keys and mouse do you use and don't use? 05:14:06 -!- aldous has joined. 05:15:48 -!- aldous has quit (Client Quit). 05:38:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:23:42 Do you know if there is any command in SDL to figure out the directory that the program is in? 07:03:55 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:22:51 My Z-machine interpreter "Fweep" is now completely working (I think), so now I am making another Z-machine interpreter "Aimfiz", for use with SDL. 08:02:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 08:04:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:10:31 -!- conehead has joined. 08:16:39 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:17:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:22:24 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:25:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:45:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:45:58 -!- DH____ has joined. 08:48:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:53:37 TIL that the band Orbital is named after the M25 09:17:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:41:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:46:16 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 10:13:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:13:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:13:24 -!- samebchase has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:13:24 -!- BillyZane has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:13:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 10:13:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:14:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:14:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:15:01 -!- BillyZane has joined. 10:16:30 -!- samebchase has joined. 10:19:07 til that kmc is named after i was relying on thinking of a punchline by the time i typed this far 10:19:24 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:40 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 10:27:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:33:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:34:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:34:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:34:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:34:51 -!- sacje has joined. 10:39:48 `pastequotes mnoqy 10:39:55 hi 10:39:57 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27447 10:40:03 uh 10:40:08 why isn ' t that text/plain 10:40:13 because of a bold 10:40:26 or is it 10:40:29 (it is) 10:40:47 why is my browser offering to download 10:40:50 Cobold 10:40:53 because of a bold 10:41:00 ther'es only one mnoqy quote and it;'s the one you added with the bold in it 10:41:05 yesterday or so 10:41:25 `quote mnoqy 10:41:27 1044) the theory's probably not bad, but calculus is one of those things that's so dang applicable that everyone only ever talks about how to apply it and compute with it and uuuuurgh(barf) so i stay away from it 10:48:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:50:43 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:56:28 -!- carado has joined. 11:09:23 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:11:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:19:16 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:26:30 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:36:57 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:03:27 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:06 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 12:07:12 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:14:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:17:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 12:18:18 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:25:43 -!- xantrixo has joined. 12:26:12 How could this be done in an esoteric lang? :D http://pastebin.com/eGqD0f16 12:27:33 xantrixo, esoteric programming languages are very diverse, did you have any particular one in mind? 12:27:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:28:02 Taneb: Your choice :) just interested to see how it would look. 12:28:36 http://pastebin.com/bTh7Ttfe 12:28:41 Is what my program does 12:29:30 Well, in some languages this is impossible (for instance Bitwise Cycling Tag and HQ9+) 12:29:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:30:46 I wouldn't like to implement it in a primarily numeric language like Piet 12:31:07 I see. 12:32:24 Bitwise Cycling Tag would be interested ot see it in that 12:32:42 xantrixo, it's impossible because BCT lacks any form of IO 12:33:04 Oh sorry, I misread and thought you said it is possible 12:33:11 My bad. 12:33:39 Taneb: How about in J? 12:33:54 I don't know anything about J 12:34:37 What do you know? 12:35:03 Some things 12:35:14 For instance the capital city of the US state of Montana 12:36:07 Taneb: What esoteric language do you know, is what I meant. 12:36:52 Piet, brainfuck, Befunge, Fueue, Underload, Thue... 12:37:43 Taneb: How could it be done in underload? 12:37:56 Well, Underload can't do input 12:38:04 Or string equality 12:38:13 So it probably can't 12:38:15 And befunge? 12:38:26 It could be done in Befunge a LOT easier 12:38:52 Would be interested in seeing this. 12:46:26 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:54:03 -!- boily has joined. 12:54:53 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:55:01 -!- atriq has joined. 12:55:16 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 12:55:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:55:39 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 12:55:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:56:02 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 12:56:02 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 12:58:31 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:11:02 -!- olsner has joined. 13:14:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:19:08 -!- jsvine has joined. 13:20:08 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:21:20 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:22:54 good humid morning all! 13:23:48 Hi 13:24:15 -!- olsner has joined. 13:48:25 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:38:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:39:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:39:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:40:44 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:45:38 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:47:33 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:47:57 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 14:55:12 Taneb: seems that there are only the two of us today. any Great News about Intelligesoteritsia? 14:58:11 Not really 14:59:02 -!- conehead has joined. 14:59:06 not even an update on the II? 14:59:26 I have been here waiting a while for my solution 15:00:13 xantrixo: o hai! what is the Original Problem pertaining to your The Solution? 15:00:15 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 15:00:40 How could this be done in an esoteric lang? :D http://pastebin.com/eGqD0f16 15:00:50 http://pastebin.com/bTh7Ttfe 15:00:56 Is what my program does 15:03:56 oh hm. you could transcompile what you wrote into brainfuck. maybe some sick^W twisted^W alternatively minded person from this fine channel has already done the job (or part thereof). 15:05:51 and befunge? :D 15:05:55 or golfscript? 15:06:22 xantrixo: after the first step, you just write a bf interpreter into your esolang of choice :D 15:20:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:21:57 -!- Bike has joined. 15:28:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:33:42 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:35:49 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 15:46:07 http://www.haskellforall.com/2013/05/program-imperatively-using-haskell.html ← shmock bait. another fine and interesting blog article, that will leave me in a temporary state of enlightenment followed by incomprehension and frustration when I try to grok lens by myself afterwards. 15:59:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 16:07:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:09:23 -!- xantrixo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:09:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:09:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:20:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:22:07 -!- Bike has joined. 16:22:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:27:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:33:33 -!- sprocklem has joined. 16:38:10 -!- jsvine has joined. 16:40:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:44:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:47:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:01:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:57 -!- sprocklem has joined. 17:10:52 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:12:01 -!- sprocklem has joined. 17:14:20 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:15:16 `quote sprocklem 17:15:18 No output. 17:15:23 `relcome sprocklem 17:15:27 ​sprocklem: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:15:53 hmm... `relcome lacks enough blue tints. 17:15:57 `relcome chicken 17:16:01 ​chicken: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:16:05 ah! better! 17:25:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Done for now - Probably Busy). 17:29:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:37:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:40:16 i wish this keyboard were capable of backticks 17:42:07 quintopià: what layout are you using? 17:42:42 android 17:42:46 oh hm. 17:44:34 if you have an HTC, you can do backquotes with the various chinese input methods. 17:45:49 hah its a moto 17:46:20 d̀àr̀ǹ. 17:46:37 I've installed that "Hacker's Keyboard" thing from the market to my Android thing. But maybe it's not all that combattible. 17:52:38 I have found that the SDL headers use a similar trick than I did to enforce that types have a certain size. 17:55:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:06:13 ~metar CYUL 18:06:15 CYUL 031700Z 24013G19KT 15SM SCT030 BKN045 16/08 A2984 RMK SC4SC3 SLP104 DENSITY ALT 300FT 18:06:18 ~metar EFRO 18:06:18 EFRO 031750Z AUTO VRB03KT 080V150 CAVOK 21/15 Q1014 18:06:28 * boily sighs... 18:06:35 WHYYYYYY! 18:22:10 AW citizenship is goinf free <-- this discrimination of goinfs has to end! 18:22:27 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/dec/11/weekend.jonronson RONSON TIME 18:22:53 ~duck goinf 18:22:53 --- No relevant information 18:22:55 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:23:20 crossing the runway on a bride?? <-- is this kind of a dual competition to that wife-carrying thing finns love so much? 18:23:53 i suppose that would a mpetition 18:24:38 i guess technically the finns are crossing on grooms 18:26:47 I DONT HAVR ONE <-- this is like not having, except more vikingish 18:27:09 i sense an underlying theme to today's logreading 18:27:25 I'm not really sensing it, what's the theme? 18:27:28 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jan/01/weekend.jonronson (i am mostly doing this to spite elliott) 18:27:49 olsner: to sense it properly, find a mispletoe 18:28:06 a mistletoe? 18:28:16 no, a mispletoe. 18:29:14 an misspelltoe? 18:29:29 now you're thinking with puntals 18:30:05 its insensitive to ask for pics of my nonexistent imaginatinon kmc <-- if elliott can have no imagination, then kmc can have no sense hth 18:31:40 hmm, I wonder what I've learned during the last half decade or so, suspect it's not a lot 18:32:00 haskell! 18:32:08 (you have learned haskell, no?) 18:32:51 yes, but that might have been mostly longer ago ... not entirely sure when I was learning haskell 18:33:05 or when I last learned more haskell 18:33:06 did you learn to eat sushi? (i haven't.) 18:33:48 quite sure I still do it wrong, but I'm entirely fine with eating sushi the wrong way 18:34:20 there is no wrong way to eat sushi 18:34:49 maybe there is no wrong way to eat sushi. if someone tries to invent one, the japanese make it into a tv show and then it's not wrong any more. 18:35:18 she doesn't like to be eaten at all, but i suspect she's fine with being eaten out 18:36:10 :wat: 18:36:11 eating out is all the rage. 18:37:50 Phantom_Hoover: angkor 18:37:53 you are talking about my friend @sushimustwrite correct? 18:38:14 i'm sorry i do not know your friend. 18:39:06 wat 18:39:26 is your friend bad at english grammar 18:39:29 well she is the internet 18:39:33 do you use the internet 18:39:39 it happens 18:39:52 she is for porn 18:40:09 wat 18:40:18 good, someone has to balance out all those against it 18:40:18 oh good, it wasn't just me. 18:40:31 she knows she is for porn, tho. she's cool with it. 18:40:44 so she doesn't think the job blows? 18:41:00 well she's not just a big truck man 18:41:10 she's not something you can just dump something on 18:41:11 wat http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/feb/05/weekend.jonronson 18:41:36 Phantom_Hoover: watt 18:41:54 ouate. 18:42:07 NO i will not have the name of watt dragged through the dirt by association with this conversation 18:42:12 hm, maybe it's not so bad that they went out of business. 18:42:25 Phantom_Hoover: but we were just building up steam... 18:42:26 who 18:42:41 Borders. 18:44:14 borders without doctors 18:45:24 `quote screaming fternooners 18:45:26 No output. 18:45:34 :( 18:46:08 can't spell eh 18:46:49 I can spell, eh. 18:50:39 what's a fternooner 18:51:58 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:52 quintopia: it's a nordic delicacy. according to ørjan (or olsner, I always get the two confused), it screams. 18:52:58 `pastlogs fternooner 18:53:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 18:53:04 `pastelogs fternooner 18:53:28 * boily whistles while it whiles away... 18:53:41 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17995 18:54:14 oerjan: hi 18:55:16 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:57:04 jó napot 18:57:19 ~duck napot 18:57:19 --- No relevant information 18:59:25 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:00:57 ~duck napot, I said. 19:00:58 --- No relevant information 19:01:05 ~duck taneb 19:01:06 --- No relevant information 19:01:11 stupid duck. 19:04:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:04:22 -!- atriq has joined. 19:10:53 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:17:24 boily: aah, fternooners! 19:17:31 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:17:40 (it's danish though) 19:20:12 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:21:02 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:21:50 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 19:21:50 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:22:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:56 en smuk ftensang 19:24:23 oerjan: "a beautiful ftensang"??? 19:24:39 it is, isn't it 19:25:49 I can't deny that assertion. 19:27:33 oerjan: did you finish logreading 19:28:05 no 19:30:02 Are some of you good at quantum computing? 19:31:10 zzo38: I am, and I am not. 19:31:35 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:37:43 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:39:43 What is a portable way to tell what directory the running C program is in, in a program using SDL? 19:43:11 that is not quantum computing hth 19:44:24 TastyToast, i hear you made a brainfuck derivative, i hate you, i will brick your brain, etc. <-- wait does it really count as making a bf derivative if it's identical to an already existing one hth 19:45:38 yes 19:46:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:49:20 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:49:51 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:51:13 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:51:39 I knew it! http://whatsdifferentincanada.tumblr.com/post/51726269607/the-dentist 19:52:20 -!- ais523_ has joined. 19:52:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:52:45 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 19:53:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:54:30 boily, in canada do you all have awful teeth because of socialised medicine 19:55:47 Phantom_Hoover: quite the contrary. dentistry is a very private affair here, but usually covered by your dental plan. 19:56:02 Phantom_Hoover, a few hours ago 19:56:08 There were 8 van Doorns in one room 19:56:29 In the UK 19:56:53 @ping 19:56:53 pong 19:56:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:58:45 around christmas, there tends to be a lot of boilys (or is it boilies?) together, which gets very passive-aggressive year after year because of my cousins' lack of imagination. 19:58:55 (they tend to name their kids the same) 19:59:38 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:00:27 the octodoorn. we are all doorned. 20:00:45 Taneb: You should've gone to that room! 20:01:01 shachaf, I was in that room! 20:01:09 That room was my dining room! 20:01:15 jean-claude and jean-claude, stop harassing jean-claude! 20:03:06 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:03:06 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 20:03:06 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:05:09 oerjan: no jean-claude yet, sadly. but we do have multiple adams! 20:05:36 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:05:53 My dad was named after his uncle 20:06:02 As was one of his brothers (a different uncle) 20:06:38 my uncle was named after his dad 20:06:53 only half the name though 20:18:08 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:36:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:41:06 neat, I can track back my tree up to the settlers who came from France. 20:41:54 I'm a twelfth generation quebecker. 20:44:55 I'm a first generation Hexhamer 20:46:54 of course. you're all part of a collective hive mind, and split and form clones. so, counting generations would be a little bit awkward. 20:48:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:49:21 Taneb: the plural form of "van Doorn" is "vans Doorn" hth 20:49:25 objectivist hive mind 20:49:47 nooodl_, but "van" is a preposition! 20:49:59 nooodl is of course the trial of nodl 20:50:22 ~duck trial 20:50:23 A trial is, in the most general sense, a test, usually a test to see whether something does or does not meet a given standard. 20:50:38 the plural form of "van Doorn" is "der Doorns" hth 20:50:58 nooodl_: are you standardized? 20:51:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:51:36 I disagree. the plural of "van Doorn" is "les Doornes", but we should still ask our Plural Expert, namely fizzie, for confirmation. 20:52:52 the plural form of "van Doorn" is "van Stengel" (complicated dutch joke imo) 20:53:17 the joke is quite simple imo 20:53:24 ~duck stengel 20:53:25 American baseball player and manager, most notably of the New York Yankees, a team he led to ten American League pennants and seven World Series championships. 20:53:39 * boily scratches his head in incomprehension 20:53:42 imo ~eend for dutch word lookup 20:53:53 noted! 20:54:13 ~eend stengel 20:54:13 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 20:54:14 (that means I should also add ~鴨) 20:54:16 bullshit. 20:54:25 Bike: noted, not implemented. 20:54:31 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:54:34 notimplemented 20:54:35 ~yi 20:54:36 Your divination: "Diminishing" to "Polarising" 20:54:41 i 20:57:36 it's 2013 and they _still_ make heating systems without thermostats? 20:58:30 I hear Germany has a super green plan to replace all nuclear plants with coal plants. 21:00:20 uhm... coal plants irradiate more than nuclear plants... 21:03:05 i'm sure it's clean coal!! 21:03:39 Koen_: I shall cry for them :'( 21:04:09 I'm hoping they will replace their nuclear-powered submarines as well 21:04:59 what do you need a submarine for nowadays, except for scientific research? 21:05:11 lol, coal-powered submarine. 21:05:42 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/feb/12/weekend.jonronsonhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/feb/12/weekend.jonronson did i link this because i should have 21:06:10 twice even 21:06:35 fucking copy and paste 21:07:19 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/feb/19/weekend.jonronson this is even better somehow 21:09:17 ............................................................................................ 21:09:26 and a ; too, just because you really deserve it. 21:10:12 ... 21:10:23 I just realised that in my head all punctuation sounds like "uh" 21:10:40 So that 'a' really weirded me out 21:10:50 Even though it makes perfect sense and is absolutely correct 21:12:41 those were French dots. they sound more like [œ〜ə]. 21:13:02 I was really talking about the semicolon 21:13:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:14:42 he... he disappeared! nooooooo! 21:16:46 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 21:17:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:17:35 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 21:17:36 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 21:17:37 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:18:57 anyone here that can reasonably impersonate Taneb? 21:26:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:26:53 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:56 anyone know which values I want in which registers? 21:34:24 (one of them is now "1" and that's wrong because that's not mapped anywhere in memory) 21:36:33 surely you want 42 somewhere hth 21:38:29 Surely. But where? r12? 21:55:21 hey guys. no game of thrones s3e9 spoilers here: http://i.imgur.com/SbKfThn.gif 21:55:22 just thought i'd share 21:57:20 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:01:43 -!- elieser224 has joined. 22:01:51 -!- elieser224 has left. 22:11:40 -!- aloril has joined. 22:12:27 Would having a goat in your neighborhood reduce the noise? 22:19:40 -!- sacje has joined. 22:19:42 -!- sacje has quit (Changing host). 22:19:42 -!- sacje has joined. 22:31:46 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:34:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:36:31 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:37:03 -!- Bike has joined. 22:43:18 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:48:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:50:25 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:19 experience tends to show that if you've had your nose broken less than four years ago and suddenly spend more than fifty hours without sleeping, you should be very careful while blowing it 22:55:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: OKAY). 23:00:22 Haaah. 23:01:36 -!- elieser224 has joined. 23:04:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:05:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 23:06:48 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:07:35 -!- elieser224 has left. 23:12:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:12:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:20:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:08 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:46:53 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/feb/26/weekend.jonronson i wonder if elliott is even listening 23:49:01 Omen had a sequel? Why? 23:50:27 because it was a horror movie and that's one of the fundamental rules of the world 23:51:53 was there like a sequel to The Thing 23:54:49 no 23:55:46 WRONG! The video game was a sequel. You've failed. 2013-06-04: 00:07:12 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:09:29 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AVSq6lYUnYA/UXZVJS-qMnI/AAAAAAAABQY/a7ujINuJQpI/w506-h930-o/z_15ce2d9d.jpg 00:11:45 -!- madbr has joined. 00:12:05 hi 00:12:09 is there a good way to detect memory aliasing in software? 00:14:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:16:14 the algo I have atm is: 00:17:28 - in the loop, if there are any read operations that can't be reordered to after generating all the memory write addresses, they have to be locked. This is done with a Memory_read + lock operation 00:20:08 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:23:28 - All the memory writes that can potentially alias with reads should be locked first, using a lock operation 00:24:10 - Once all write addresses are locked, all the other memory reads can be done, using a memory_read + check operation 00:25:31 - Also any locked read addresses from the first step can be unlocked, using an unlock operation 00:26:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:26:47 - Once all potential jumps are passed and it's sure the code isn't running speculatively, the real writes can be done, using a write + unlock operation 00:27:59 It "works" and also supports read-modify (using a memory_read + lock instead of just a lock operation at step 2) but it's kinda convoluted 00:28:04 -!- Bike has joined. 00:28:24 It uses like 5 different operations where a normal memory system would only have 2 o_O 00:28:26 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/12/weekend.jonronson i hope you're all reading these 00:28:33 because i am not going to stop linking them 00:30:10 also if a memory alias is detected it has to jump from some random location to a proper handler, invalidate all the cores that were speculatively doing wrong stuff, and also unlock the addresses that were locked but won't be unlocked now that the control flow won't go there o_O 00:31:55 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:34:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:37:02 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 00:37:49 -!- Bike has joined. 00:37:57 -!- elieser2241 has left. 00:38:28 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:40:14 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:41:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:47:31 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:47:55 * Sgeo wonders if he could give REBOL similar scoping as Kernel 00:48:21 Kernel operatives receive a lexical environment as an object, right? And eval takes one? 00:48:31 Or am I misremembering 00:48:38 yes 00:48:54 (yes they do, no you're not misremembering) 00:49:06 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:49:08 shachaf and i are at world hq of http://www.em-labs.com/ 00:49:11 `e 00:49:12 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 00:49:32 Hmm, would be easy to make a variant of do that takes a word and forces that word's lexical environment on every word in the argument block 00:49:49 kmc: ooh, that looks fun 00:50:03 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:50:22 yeah i know the founders from school 00:51:04 Harder would be to make functions that take a block also take an environment... I mean, they could just peak at the first word in the block and assume that that's its environment 00:51:38 hm it occurs that i don't actually know anything about REBOL 00:51:58 Sgeo: well, that's why kernel environment parameters are all separated out. 00:51:59 should i fix that 00:52:00 Better idea: Give participating functions an /env refinement and have my doenv scan for words that have it 00:52:07 kmc, yes >.> 00:52:38 Although, Rebol makes things tricky here by making it hard to determine where a functions arguments end 00:53:38 Maybe a bit of currying... 00:55:58 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/19/weekend.jonronson stop learning rebol Sgeo 00:56:45 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 00:57:16 Are the link and that statement related? 00:57:21 Also, do you know anything about rebol? 00:57:46 yes 00:58:04 The link and the statement are related. 00:58:09 It's a very cogent argument. 01:16:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:26:07 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jul/02/weekend.jonronson oh god this one 01:32:30 http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/jul/16/creditcards.debt is also good but not particularly funny 01:37:21 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 01:37:35 -!- elieser2241 has left. 02:02:33 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:03:55 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:05:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:05:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:10:42 -!- keyzs has joined. 02:11:46 http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ 02:12:16 http://worldtv.com/tvp_global/ 02:12:53 Well shit, when you put it that way. 02:13:50 "I wish Mr. Fresco would take a neutral position on who did 9/11. It's a touchy and divisive subject and there isn't likely to be consensus any time soon." 02:15:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:16:03 laws of nature are inviolable? 02:16:39 Bike i believe that usa made 911 02:16:50 `welcome keyzs 02:16:52 keyzs: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:16:55 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:18:08 zzo38: Who do you think made 911? 02:21:41 Bike the us puts people on poverty with the federal reserve bank ruled by 5 or 6 magnats of money, so why wouldn´t them cause a disaster to have a war and make devastation and profit over it? 02:22:14 The banks really have got a lot of money out of the war on terror, haven't they. 02:22:20 Flame war in the Rebol room about q 02:22:37 I wish you'd take a neutral position on q, Sgeo. 02:23:30 Guy is angry that q causes the interpreter to quit, and is worried about people accidentally quitting and then not realizing why they quit 02:27:02 Bike: Who made 9/11? Well, it wasn't made by just one guy. The USA did part of it, but not all of it. 02:27:19 Bike wars are about resources, there were resources themes behind story of 9/11, starts on politics and oil, what do you think was laden business? 02:27:37 I'm on the side of the angry guy 02:28:08 He was born in the bin Laden family to billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia. 02:28:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 02:28:33 now figure it out :) 02:29:13 bin Laden did 9/11? That sounds like a controversial idea. 02:29:47 I think it was partially the fault of the government of the United States, although it is also bin Laden's fault, and possibly a few others. 02:31:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:32:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:32:55 Bike usa did 9/11 02:33:42 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:34:16 How cruel. 02:34:18 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:34:24 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:34:30 What do you think of SKI calculus? 02:36:42 the us government faked 9/11, but then bin laden swooped in and took the credit 02:36:58 they were just going to be like "yeah those towers tragically exploded" 02:37:04 Maybe I should make an esolang called Northwoods. 02:37:19 can have multiple applications 02:41:01 Phantom__Hoover, i believe that it was more like a tragic happening partership, because some documentaries that i seen say that structure of the building was designed to resist plains hitting it, and the metal structure had chemicals to do erosion on airplain hits 02:42:28 us has business oil deals with multiple countries and arabs, most of them are coneceted to religion and arm businesses, so they are no flowers, play with the devil and then get it good 02:44:30 *conected 02:44:51 i realise now that steering to the absurd was a bad idea for this conversation 02:45:37 saddam hussein was absurd too 02:45:40 Hm, back in 1994 some people tried to crash a plane into the Eiffel Tower. I didn't know that. 02:45:43 vietnam 02:45:47 japs 02:45:51 East Timor. 02:45:57 Bangladesh. 02:45:58 afeganistan 02:45:59 Canadians. 02:46:01 etc 02:46:28 all in name of resources, profit, lands and oil 02:48:55 we went to vietnam to export some of our freedom to the poor, backwards communists 02:48:58 -!- myname has joined. 02:49:02 you need to check your facts sir 02:49:08 or ma'am 02:49:15 Or nonbinary existence. 02:49:46 yes or that 02:51:08 Sgeo: Don't scare me like that! 02:56:49 sacje http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War 02:57:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:57:09 war is war 02:57:50 see that pic on wikipedia with the soldiers down? 02:57:55 wikipedia is a known to be a hotbed for communist sympathizers 02:58:51 Who are these people? 02:58:51 you can search on any search engine 02:59:44 search engines are working for the chinese 03:00:10 hey, what's going on here? 03:00:19 some sort of channel invasion? 03:00:37 Something like that. 03:00:46 I think? I don't know what keyzs thinks of esolangs. 03:01:08 lol i'm just messing around 03:01:18 keyzs: sacje: do you understand what this channel is for, or do you just turn up to random channels as part of some sort of performance art thing? 03:01:54 i know what it's for, i like esolangs and didn't know there was an irc channel for it 03:02:15 i was kidding because i saw other people were talking about politics and figure it could use a dose of crazy 03:02:23 I think it's mostly keyzs fault 03:02:30 turned up recently, and hasn't said anything ontopic yet 03:05:26 not so much other people 03:05:30 as some sort of possible troll 03:05:36 in general, though, this is a hard channel to troll effectively 03:05:50 not impossible, but it isn't accomplished very often 03:07:07 -!- keyzs has left ("Leaving"). 03:07:25 hmm… I suspect keyzs is organised enough to actually check the list of ops before starting to troll 03:07:38 because I didn't unstealth 03:07:53 Or maybe they just wanted to stay until somebody mentioned that they were just spewing. 03:08:28 perhaps 03:08:36 Either way, thank you, O op. 03:09:28 yeah, I was considering a ban 03:09:34 or at least a kick 03:09:40 but you test the waters first to see if people are reasonable or not 03:09:50 I remember when a troll came in here a while ago 03:09:55 and we kicked them about 10 times 03:09:59 didn't bother banning, it was too funny 03:35:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:45:45 -!- simpleirc has joined. 03:48:06 -!- simpleirc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:56:59 -!- yonkie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:31 -!- yonkie has joined. 03:59:46 -!- yonkie_ has joined. 04:02:30 -!- yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:09:30 Is there a way in MediaWiki to make a template to override another template inside a template which it calls? 04:16:51 Is it difficult? 04:42:39 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:42:58 -!- comex has joined. 04:50:49 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:45 So there are those crypto challenges that like kmc and shachaf were talking about probably. And related ctfs and stuff. 04:57:52 Are there any like, open-ended challenges? 04:58:03 "Here's an intercepted transmission from [fictional war], figure it out" or something 05:03:26 Bike: are you a numbers station 05:03:37 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 05:04:48 Yeah, Conet is why I'm asking. 05:04:53 http://irdial.com/crackhome.htm 05:05:18 i think those are mostly one-time pads 05:05:42 Yeah but they put them up anyway. 05:05:52 Maybe they just want to see amateur cryptanalysts lose their minds. 05:07:03 there's that scullpture at the NSA 05:07:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptos 05:07:31 skullpture 05:08:33 I think the NSA is big on cryptanalysts losing their minds, so 05:08:50 Dang, for a second I thought "encrypted sculpture" was going to be an article :( 05:10:57 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 05:11:06 These are shorter than I expected. Lincolnshire Poacher is apparently just 39715 over and over again. 05:12:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:13:38 Oh, it changed. 32348. 59378. makes me wonder if they switched to something steganographic and the numbers are just a ploy, though. 05:46:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:03:47 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:04:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:04:35 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 06:04:35 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:04:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:09:29 play numbers stations loudly outdoors at 2AM 06:11:21 numbers stations set to led zeppelin 06:12:04 everything is numbers 06:13:26 orange! that's right! 06:13:36 OORRAANNGGEE 06:14:00 boards of lincolnhire 06:15:45 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:33:46 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:35:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:38:41 -!- shachaf has joined. 06:46:45 hichaf 06:48:04 helloogan 06:48:04 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:51:39 kmc: 𝕳𝖆𝖑𝖋 𝖆 𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖊𝖗 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖙𝖒𝖚𝖝! 06:52:05 that's a lot of � :/ 06:52:10 I guess you are showing off your new tmux? 06:52:29 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/s 06:53:42 :) 06:53:56 looks v. nice in my browser 06:54:09 test 06:54:34 heh. 07:21:17 i wonder if birds ever eat something so heavy that they can't fly anymore 07:23:37 shachaf and i saw a bird that was maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scrub_Jay 07:34:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:35:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:47:00 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:47:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:56:34 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:59:47 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:00:00 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:09:00 -!- sivoais has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 08:09:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:10:41 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:02 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:41:21 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:43:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:54:06 -!- mnoqy has joined. 08:57:42 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:05:54 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:07:17 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:55:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:57:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:09:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 11:29:20 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:37:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:44:08 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:44:53 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 11:44:53 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:44:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:48:27 -!- shachaf has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:48:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 11:55:02 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:55:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:56:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:56:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:32:21 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:55:01 ais523: can i get you to ban ~elieser22@190.121.238.14 12:55:08 they keep joining and then parting seconds later and never saying anything!! 12:55:23 elliott: recently, or a long time ago? 12:56:16 I can see it three times in my scrollback, once they stayed here for several minutes 12:56:21 so I'd say there isn't enough evidence yet 12:57:11 like, it could be someone with a broken client, but I think it's more likely someone checking the channel manually to see if there's an active conversation 12:57:16 and that's not a ban-worthy offence 12:58:11 ais523: grep elieser224 *.log --> http://sprunge.us/VJBb 12:58:35 `e 12:58:40 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 12:58:44 if they've been checking the channel then they've been ignoring that ^ several times 12:58:54 admittedly it misses a letter of their nick 12:59:00 but if they're checking manually, that shouldn't be relevant 12:59:26 you can set up a ban that redirects them to ##fixyourconnection, that's what is done in #haskell for client/connection problems like that 12:59:50 well, the pattern seems to have changed in the last several hours 13:00:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:17 so I think we'll see if it starts up again before a fix-your-connection ban (which is the only sort of ban I was considering) 13:00:58 I can't redirect there, it doesn't have an allow-arbitrary-redirects mode set 13:01:10 or maybe it does, is that mode +F? 13:01:37 well you could consider bit a ban for flooding 13:01:39 *it 13:02:00 like, if someone joined just to say "a" every hour for a six-hour period every day, they should be banned 13:02:47 yeah 13:02:55 but the temporary join and then part a bit later is harder to explain 13:03:13 it's arguably twice as noisy as "a" :) 13:03:24 probably equally in practice, since joins/parts are "quieter" than messages 13:07:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:08:16 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:08:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:20:49 maybe they have #esoteric on autojoin for some reason and are manually parting it every time they join? 13:21:29 Phantom_Hoover: sounds like they'd be pleased to have their client be made unable to join #esoteric then 13:22:10 yes 13:22:16 `run echo 'echo elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?' >bin/e 13:22:21 No output. 13:22:22 let's try that 13:22:23 `e 13:22:24 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 13:22:31 ps does anyone speak spanish 13:22:43 "often why high and low?" uh 13:30:20 is spanish just a guess, or is it related to the IP somehow? 13:32:44 ais523: as seen in my log link, the only thing they've ever said in #esoteric is "hola" 13:32:54 also I googled their nick and they've been in some other channel on freenode in spanish 13:32:54 ah right 13:33:15 i suspect google translate has not adequately conveyed my message 13:35:10 what happened with that crazy spanish guy 13:35:17 who kept insulting me in spanish 13:35:51 Phantom_Hoover, that was one of my alter egos 13:35:58 (it wasn't one of my alter egos actually) 13:38:52 i know that! you are, after all, one of my alter egos 13:39:36 I thought it was the other way round 13:47:52 -!- augur has joined. 13:51:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:51:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:54:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:58:21 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal <-- your speling is pathetic hth 14:03:52 * oerjan suddenly wonders if there are many things in programming named after spices, like currying 14:04:00 ...salting, obviously 14:04:11 sugaring? 14:04:21 Syntactic sugar 14:04:32 Actually currying comes from a guy's name 14:04:35 ...but the name probably comes from food 14:04:58 OH I'D NEVER HAVE GUESSED 14:05:10 The name has nothing to do with the food, actually 14:05:16 the joke is starvation 14:05:20 hm i'm not sure curry's name ... what Taneb said 14:05:28 isn't it irish or something 14:05:32 Yeah 14:06:00 on the flipside, haskell is hebrew. or maybe that's also irish by some remarkable coincidence. 14:06:25 brooks sounds disturbingly english. maybe it's really persian or something. 14:07:02 I'm trying to learn HTML Canvas. 14:07:17 I keep running an example and thinking, "ooh, isn't this pretty? wow" 14:07:22 And then getting distracted 14:07:57 "Brooks is a functional logic programming language which inherits from the languages Curry and BABEL but allows the integration of different narrowing strategies." 14:08:10 lost in the canvas 14:08:40 * oerjan has new laptop! 14:08:45 just need to unpack it 14:09:07 Yay! 14:10:05 maybe i'll be able to compile lens without thrashing on the first attempt, now 14:10:55 probably not enough to compile ghc though; i don't want to ruin my dad either 14:15:40 the old man is rather kind, really 14:40:53 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:50:08 *chirp* 14:54:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:55:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:16:16 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:20:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:20:38 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:27:35 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:30:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:36:38 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:40:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:46:42 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:50:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:52:09 -!- carado has joined. 15:57:24 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:00:10 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:06:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:07:34 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:10:35 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:11:09 -!- conehead has joined. 16:17:28 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:19:40 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415 finland 16:20:10 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:27:46 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:30:13 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:37:25 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:40:15 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:42:17 -!- drlemon has joined. 16:42:42 Hello 16:42:51 Hello 16:43:13 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:43:26 hello 16:43:41 Oh hello DHeadshot 16:44:10 Also hello kmc but nostly headshot because he sent me here 16:46:02 Drlemon, well, you did say you Loved esolangs... 16:46:42 `WeLcOmE drlemon 16:46:45 DrLeMoN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 16:46:49 I've actually been here before. Just didn't have much to say considering I'm a total amateur at programming 16:47:22 I've been welcomed already last time. 16:47:35 oerjan: what new laptop did you get 16:47:36 it's ok it was probably a different welcome 16:47:45 kmc: asus something 16:48:10 No, like 10 people welcomed me in different ways 16:48:16 drlemon: ah. 16:48:31 `relcome drlemon 16:48:34 ​drlemon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:48:47 Oh 16:48:51 For some reason, the save game isn't working OK. 16:52:35 -!- nooga has joined. 16:53:27 I wonder what are minimal CPU features that allow linux to run 16:54:12 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:54:35 assume that you have to design a simple CPU, then make a GCC backend targetting this machine, and then compile and boot linux kernel 16:55:02 then i would design a CPU that already fits the MIPS ISA :) 16:55:21 nooga: I don't know. 16:55:40 anyway I don't think there are many must-have features; Linux does run on systems without MMU these days 16:55:51 "although functionality is then obviously somewhat limited" 16:55:56 kmc: too simple, existing ISAs are banned from this excercise 16:56:08 Yes, I suppose using the same instruction set that Linux uses in something it is ported to, or the subset compatible with Linux, would be an easy way to do it without modifying Linux or GCC, although that isn't necessarily a minimal CPU features! 16:56:13 then i would make some ISA which differs from MIPS in a boring way 16:56:25 say by shuffling the bits of the instruction encoding 16:56:27 i'll call it ips-may 16:56:31 i would go with something ARMish 16:56:41 kmc: Or omitting the features that GCC/Linux doesn't use? 16:56:47 zzo38: sure 16:57:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:57:07 ARM is a cool arch, but MIPS might be a bit simpler to implement 16:57:17 depending also on which versions 16:57:32 You could do AVR 16:57:32 SPARCs are awesome 16:58:59 but this is not minimal 16:59:27 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:59:29 i have implemented at gate level 6.004's "Beta" processor, which I guess is supposed to be like the Alpha but 32-bit 16:59:38 it's a very simple RISC 16:59:51 i was just wondering if there are some specific features that are strictly required to run GCC output, with linux as a representative example 16:59:53 with very limited interrupt handling, and no MMU 17:00:09 wow 17:02:13 I realized in this C program, I have both "VERSION" and "version" as two different things. (Since C is case-sensitive, this is OK.) 17:03:30 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:03:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:06:20 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:53 maybe I should ask on #kernel 17:07:05 but I fear that they will eat me 17:07:54 Zzo38, It's when you have "Version", "vERSION" and "VeRsIoN" as well that you need to worry... 17:08:07 DHeadshot: Yes, that may be true. 17:08:36 As it turns out both version and VERSION are macros in my program; version is (*memory) and VERSION is "0.5". 17:09:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:09:55 zzo38: Why is version (*memory) 17:10:05 What type is memory anyway 17:10:05 FreeFull: It is a Z-machine interpreter. 17:10:41 memory is an array of unsigned 8-bits. 17:11:04 uint8_t 17:11:07 ah 17:11:09 zork stuff 17:11:54 As a DOS user, I prefer saw insensitive languages. However, I appear to be a dying breed... 17:12:05 *case 17:12:14 Not saw 17:12:23 Autocorrect fail 17:12:29 DOS autocorrect? 17:12:45 Well, I use DOS as well as other things too. 17:13:17 I do program in BASIC as well as in C. 17:14:01 -!- drlemon has joined. 17:14:44 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:14:59 DHeadshot: What programming languages do you use? 17:16:30 Assembly, pascal, basic, FORTRAN, etc; plus obviously esolangs like whirl and 3code (I know that last one's case sensitive)... 17:18:07 Why do you use pascal 17:18:35 Assembly language of what computers? I have used x86 assembly and 6502 assembly. 17:19:06 I have done x86 and ARM myself 17:19:07 x86 and Z80 17:19:36 I don't think it would be difficult for me to pick up another one 17:19:53 O, and also Z-machine assembly. 17:20:11 I did a little RISC-style at uni but not for any particular CPU. I'd like to learn ARM though... 17:26:28 ARM is for compilers ;p 17:26:52 ARM isn't that bad to write manually 17:28:21 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:28:55 ARM was DESIGNED to write manually - how would you compile for your expansion module with just 32kb of free memory? 17:29:07 O no! Two of my "C" position players are injured, and the remaining one is very susceptible to injury. Now, if they get injured too, I will be disqualified. 17:30:13 Zzo38, I thought you said you were writing IN C, not PLAYING it...? 17:30:59 DHeadshot: Yes, but now I am playing a different game. 17:34:11 DHeadshot: x86 was designed to write manually at the start and look what happened 17:34:30 -!- olsner has joined. 17:35:14 ... It's still fine? 17:35:42 I mean, not the machine-code, but the asm is... 17:36:30 The machine-code's a mess, but then so are most modern CISCs... 17:38:08 Yes, the modern x86 is pretty terrible, and so is the modern ARM, actually. 17:38:25 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:38:46 -!- myname has joined. 17:39:15 what's the cleanest 64bit risc design? 17:39:24 mips or alpha? 17:39:57 I'd assume MIPS, but I haven't seen Alpha... 17:44:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:09 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 17:52:45 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 17:59:30 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:59:30 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:00:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:02:14 some things still use MIPS, so it might not be as clean as it used to be ... 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19:20:02 x86 is a mess, but if you are writing assembly yourself, for a typical x86 operating system, you can ignore most of the complexity 19:20:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:20:21 -!- ion has joined. 19:20:27 if you are writing an OS or reading compiler output, it's a whole different story 19:20:43 lol swapgs instruction 19:21:19 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 270 seconds). 19:21:39 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Quit: Reboot time). 19:22:09 obviously they should make an x86 Lite 19:22:17 amd64 is that, a little 19:22:58 x85 19:23:36 they took out some little-used features and added new, more useful ones 19:23:56 of course by 'took out' I only mean in long mode; they still have a full implementation of the 16- and 32-bit x86 instruction sets as well 19:23:57 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:24:15 -!- sivoais has quit (Client Quit). 19:25:25 also some of the removed features would still be useful in specific circumstances :/ 19:27:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:28:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:28:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:28:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:28:08 isn't that true of any removed feature 19:30:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:31:43 to varying extent, yeah 19:32:38 what I have in mind specifically is that the vestigial support for segmentation in 64-bit mode is not really good enough to implement the kernel security features that some 32-bit OSes have 19:32:58 (but not the common 32-bit OSes) 19:34:24 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 19:34:37 -!- samebcha1e has changed nick to samebchase. 19:36:45 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:37:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:38:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:38:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:38:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:38:40 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:43:29 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:46 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:53:45 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:55:18 -!- Gregor has joined. 19:56:58 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:58:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:58:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:58:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:59:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:00:01 is there a function such that f' = f . f? 20:00:13 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:00:44 derivation? 20:00:55 and composition 20:01:04 huh? 20:01:17 -!- sivoais has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:27 um, i'm just asking if ' and . mean what i am guessing 20:01:29 Bike, const 0? 20:01:37 f(x) = 0 20:01:40 oerjan: yes 20:01:45 Taneb: yeah i thought of that, but another? 20:02:07 \rainbow{differential equations} 20:02:13 hm polynomials can't work 20:02:35 kmc: it's not a differential equation, it's a function equation B) 20:02:42 because if f has degree n, f.f has degree 2n and f' has degree n-1? 20:02:59 functional 20:03:01 Bike: well f'(x) = f(f(x)) is a differential equation 20:03:04 Something Hyperbolic? 20:03:10 of sorts 20:03:26 kmc: I actually got this equation out of a book as an example of something that isn't a differential equation despite involving a function and its derivatives. 20:03:34 Because it's not about a vector field. 20:03:36 oh 20:03:38 well then 20:03:51 But it's interesting to think about. 20:04:12 sounds like an arbitrary restriction of the term 20:04:47 it's not arbitrary. 20:05:08 Bike: if you get one, tell me :) 20:05:14 One what? 20:05:25 function 20:05:32 taneb already named one. 20:05:41 well, a non trivial one 20:06:50 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 20:06:52 -!- elieser2241 has left. 20:09:42 hm how does the multivariable chain rule work with f(f(x)) 20:09:59 oh hm 20:10:15 it's just f'(f(x))*f'(x) i think 20:10:38 and it's not actually multi 20:12:21 Who was the chap who said that either there's extraterrestial life or there isn't and both possibilities are equally scary? 20:12:33 hm schwartzian transform has nothing to do with either schwartz functions or fourier transforms 20:13:19 Arthur C Clarke 20:14:09 mathematicians: suck at naming things 20:14:37 -!- yonkie__ has joined. 20:15:16 hm wait composition doesn't behave nicely with fourier or laplace transforms i think 20:17:13 -!- ssue__ has joined. 20:18:57 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- yonkie_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- quintopi1 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- oklofok has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- ssue_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- iamcal__ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 f(f(x)) tends to be "more complicated" than f'(x) in some sense, i think 20:19:15 -!- ssue__ has changed nick to ssue_. 20:20:04 which i mean not as a strict rule but as an intuition you have to escape the validity of 20:21:20 that makes sense 20:21:37 i dunno. what if f is, say, a half-iterate? D^1/2 is way more complicated than D in my mind 20:24:01 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:24:07 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:24:11 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:27:42 -!- elieser224 has joined. 20:27:53 -!- elieser224 has left. 20:28:40 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:28:43 -!- oklofok has joined. 20:28:44 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 20:28:44 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 20:28:44 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 20:30:50 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:33:49 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:34:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:34:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:58 -!- ggherdov has joined. 20:37:39 hm f's behavior near x and near f(x) do not need to be related if f isn't particularly nice. which means it should be easy to find a solution which holds only in an interval. 20:39:11 f(x) = 2x near 1, say, and f(x) = 2 near 2. 20:40:24 it then satisfies the equation near 1. 20:40:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:43:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:43:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:44:10 f''(x) = (f(f(x)))' = f'(f(x))*f'(x) = f(f(f(x)))*f(f(x)) 20:44:12 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:45:05 f''(x)/f'(x) = f(f(f(x))) 20:45:20 (ln f(x))' = f(f(f(x))) 20:45:31 um wait 20:45:37 * (ln f'(x))' = f(f(f(x))) 20:46:26 how entirely comprehensible 20:46:36 clear as mud 20:50:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:53:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:59:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:05:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:10:12 -!- sacje has joined. 21:16:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:17:57 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:21:40 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:30:57 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:45:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:46:05 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:11:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:15:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:16:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:17:01 mnoqy 22:17:12 hi 22:18:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:21:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:25:35 "William III of England arrived at Brixham in England on 5 November 1688 after setting sail from the Netherlands on 11 November 1688" 22:26:38 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:26:45 kmc, that was around when all the calendars were switching from Julian to Gregorian, iirc 22:26:48 kings are amazing 22:26:53 England's was one of the last to switch 22:27:23 yep 22:27:31 kmc, were you the chap who left #haskell and vowed never to return? 22:27:44 i don't think i vowed never to return........................................ 22:28:00 i have various complaints and probably will not return unless some of them improve 22:28:03 Anyway, I am now beginning to think that that may have been a very good idea 22:28:06 but some already have 22:28:09 stuff like that would be funnier if we had no idea people were switching calendars 22:28:19 yeah I know that you all know about calendars and such 22:28:22 it's just amusing 22:28:56 There is someone who is insisting that we should endeavour to make Applicative instances as different as possible to Monad instances 22:29:03 So ap /= (<*>) et al. 22:29:10 Anyway, goodnight 22:29:26 a lot of eastern europe, russia, asia didn't change until the 20th century 22:29:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:30:01 hence the october revolution starting on November 7 (N.S.) 22:30:10 Anyway, goodnight 22:30:13 Wait 22:30:16 anyway goodnight taneb 22:30:16 I already said that 22:30:21 This time I meant it 22:30:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Anyway, goodnight). 22:30:31 (any justification for making applicative very different from monad?) 22:31:04 I think people being wrong on things isn't the biggest problem with #haskell. 22:31:40 what do you think are the biggest problems? 22:32:18 I don't know. 22:35:41 why as different as possible 22:41:26 -!- elieser224 has joined. 22:43:34 `run e | sed '/lis/lies/' 22:43:35 sed: -e expression #1, char 7: extra characters after command 22:43:38 oops 22:43:43 `run e | sed 's/lis/lies/' 22:43:44 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:44:25 -!- elieser224 has left. 22:45:51 now that was a downer 22:45:54 huh? 22:45:55 `e 22:45:56 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:46:02 what are you replacing.... 22:46:05 oh that was fixed 22:46:18 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:46:29 SORRY MERGE ERROR 22:46:34 k 22:51:55 oerjan: hi ban elieser224 22:51:56 oh 22:52:04 did i make another typo in the naem lol 22:52:04 `e 22:52:06 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:53:09 oerjan: btw if you know spanish please make the message be right 22:53:55 material implication is so easy 23:01:30 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 23:02:07 -!- elieser2241 has left. 23:02:55 oerjan: i can't take it 23:03:15 hm... 23:03:26 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:03:47 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!eliser*@*. 23:03:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:03:58 good ban 23:04:34 oerjan: you may wish to reconsider that ban. 23:04:43 in particular I'd recommend the addition of an e and a 22. 23:04:54 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:04:58 The 22 is not quite as necessary. 23:04:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!eliser*@*. 23:05:06 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!elisere22*@*. 23:05:11 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:05:12 um. 23:05:19 I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'good' ban 23:05:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:05:27 oerjan: you may wish to look at elieser2241's hostname again :P 23:05:35 apparently jsvine agrees with me 23:06:28 -!- jsvine has joined. 23:08:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Client Quit). 23:08:28 oerjan: (the e is after the eli, not the r. or is this intentional.) 23:08:53 no it's attentional 23:09:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:09:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!elisere22*@*. 23:09:53 -!- augur has joined. 23:10:00 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!elieser22*@*. 23:10:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:10:17 the slippery slope has landed 23:17:57 `pastelogs oerjan> @check.* 23:18:15 *- .* 23:18:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19489 23:30:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:31:20 Rebol reminds me of what I once expressed as a wish for how Lisp worked 23:32:57 (if (< 0 1) '(print "Hello") '(print "Goodbye")) 23:45:47 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:46:34 -!- sacje has joined. 23:58:31 we can't always get what we want 23:59:21 THAT'S JUST THE MAN KEEPING YOU DOWN 2013-06-05: 00:02:03 I hear shachaf keeps the man's systems up 00:02:20 hi 00:06:44 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:06:47 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:09:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:10:25 -!- Bike has joined. 00:13:25 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:15:15 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:23:06 * oerjan confused 00:23:39 `e 00:23:40 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 00:24:48 is the ~ part of the actual pattern, i thought it was just a flag thing 00:25:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:25:32 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!elieser22*@*. 00:25:41 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*elieser22@*. 00:25:59 huh 00:26:19 seems you cannot have * both before and after 00:26:20 You might want another * there. 00:26:22 ? 00:26:30 You can't? 00:26:36 +o me, let me try 00:26:37 nope, it ignored it 00:26:44 NICE TRY 00:27:03 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:27:06 Huh, you're right. 00:27:40 i guess it's too much work to search inside a word 00:27:54 oerjan: What's with the NICE TRY business? 00:28:12 it's a very nice business 00:29:25 -!- elieser224 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:39:42 well that's the first time they haven't parted 00:39:58 oerjan: what was missing was the ~ btw 00:40:00 not the first 00:41:49 kmc, what would you think of a Lisp that did that? 00:42:08 The (if (0 < 1) '(print "Hi") '(print "Bye")) thing, with if being a regular function 00:42:50 it's "common" pedantically to have like (if (< 0 1) (lambda () (print "Hi")) (lambda () (print "Bye"))) 00:43:11 but uh isn't smalltalk like that 00:43:23 i have used smalltalk never 00:43:49 In Smalltalk you pass around blocks, but those are actual functions, you can't really check out the source of the block 00:44:08 Your options are to evaluate (and possibly pass in arguments) or not 00:44:37 and... you'd rather have source code? 00:44:52 abstraction is the devil, Bike 00:45:11 Sure, because it means no need for macros with a separate macroexpansion phase 00:45:18 languages are meant to support cute metaprogramming hacks that are funny for 3 minutes because sgeo gets bored of languages before the total lack of meaningful semantics and uselessness and ripeness for abuse become relevant 00:45:33 Sgeo: like... smalltalk's macroexpansion phase?? 00:47:22 I'm glad I quit programming to take up listening to numbers stations 00:47:24 Smalltalk has no macros and nothing that particularly takes the place of macros niceny 00:47:28 nicely 00:47:36 ok but what the fuck does that have to do with quotation though? 00:47:43 and the... passy... thing 00:49:01 You can have a function that does any transform or execution that it likes on code that it receives. And you can preprocess code before giving it to such a function 00:49:31 And, with particular ways of thinking of symbols, you don't have to lose lexical scoping... I think 00:49:39 exactly what i've never particularly needed as core semantics. 00:49:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy-zVlB4mvA 00:50:51 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:50:51 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:51:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:54:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:54:17 -!- Bike has joined. 00:56:25 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:59:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:11:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:11:29 Just bought a prgmr ... thing 01:11:57 Well, started yesterday, paid today 01:12:47 -!- Bike has joined. 01:33:07 are you ircing from it 01:33:48 Sgeo: a Lisp that does that is very much like Kernel 01:34:02 and so I would say at minimum that when you define 'if' you need a way to bind the caller's lexical environment 01:35:35 `addquote I'm glad I quit programming to take up listening to numbers stations 01:35:39 1047) I'm glad I quit programming to take up listening to numbers stations 01:36:02 well. if if is just a normal function, and you're passing it quoted code blocks, the lexical environment you want those blocks executed in probably isn't just whoever's calling if. 01:36:14 if only there was some way to attach a lexical environment to a block of code. 01:36:23 Bike: are you familiar with how Kernel works? 01:36:29 yeah 01:36:48 I'm having some trouble thinking of whether the model I have in mind is in fact sufficient 01:36:50 so don't you think that in this case, 'if' will want to eval one of those two bits of code, in the caller's lexical environment? 01:36:58 the caller of if? 01:37:21 yeah, the environment that would be captured there if it were a lambda 01:37:38 the same env that's captured in your example with (lambda () ...) 01:37:50 that's what Kernel provides to an operative 01:37:56 what i mean is, sgeo's emphasis is on the arguments, i think whoever constructed the /arguments/ would want to control the caller there 01:38:38 control the environment, ugh headache sorry 01:38:54 ...I have a mental model for scoping, but that mental model doesn't actually match what Rebol does, so I may end up short-changing Rebol 01:39:02 shocker 01:39:15 blub blub blub 01:39:59 ok anyway: how do smalltalk blocks work again? it's like [ ...variables... | ...statements with ...variables... free... ] right? and do you call it with named arguments or what 01:40:10 Ok, I'll just describe my mental model, which Rebol can be coerced into, and we'll see what happens 01:40:17 go for it 01:41:45 Each symbol has an environment attached to it. A function that takes in a block can swap a symbol's environment for something else and/or modify it etc. So the caller of if can impose an environment over every symbol that it sees. Things inside that block, say, inside the if, when executed, can themselves impose a different environment on each word before evaling what they see 01:42:40 "word" and "symbol" are the same? 01:43:50 Yes. Well, Rebol calls them words, I wanted to call them symbols because we're going with the Lisp analogy 01:45:31 so would like, (eval symbol) look up the value of symbol in its environment, and return that value 01:46:05 Yes 01:47:35 the values totally exist in the environments, then, it's just delayed evaluation 01:48:36 Let me take a Rebol example and translate it into a Lispy syntax 01:48:41 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 01:49:04 shachaf: https://www.quora.com/East-Palo-Alto-CA/What-good-pizza-places-deliver-to-East-Palo-Alto?srid=Q1&share=1 01:49:36 i could spend 390 Quora Bux to ask Charlie Cheever where to buy pizza in East Palo Alto 01:49:41 truly the sharing economy is upon us 01:49:59 does this question have no answer 01:51:30 Palo Alto, CA: Why has East Palo Alto not produced world famous rappers? 01:51:50 dj dotcom bubble 01:52:11 so the idea of quora is to make me kill myself by telling me to log in constantly right 01:52:15 yes 01:52:15 it's like fucking expert's exchange 01:52:20 you in particular 01:52:30 i guess it's experts plural not 's 01:52:33 possessive? that's the one 01:52:37 too many "s"es? fuck 01:52:46 experts' 01:53:02 How much of the conversations about East Palo Alto being "safe" just perceived or masked racism? 01:53:12 http://pastie.org/8007464 01:53:27 haha there are a lot of questions about whethery ou're going to get murdered in east palo alto here 01:53:43 alright sure what's use 01:54:02 Here, use scans for the symbols in the first list and sets all such symbols to their own scope. A bit like let I guess. (print xs) evals each thing in the list and prints 01:54:12 to their own... scope? 01:54:20 So it would print (12 9 "RELISP") 01:54:28 As in, a new environment created by that use 01:54:33 The upshot seems to be that you are still more likely to get shot in EPA than elsewhere 01:54:42 i remember in hexham once someone got shot 01:54:42 So each of those three x's are different 01:54:43 maybe two times 01:54:47 ok 01:54:55 kmc: is quora bux a thing............. 01:54:57 But each xs, since not rebound by use, refers to that global xs 01:54:59 why is it (append xs 'x) and not (append 'xs 'x) or (append xs x) 01:55:11 i have a friend who is moving to EPA and he claims it's fine other than terrible schools 01:55:17 also i don't want to think about parsing this. 01:55:33 It's not (append xs x) because you're not putting each value into xs, but the symbol 'x 01:55:34 kmc: uh it has no world class rappers 01:55:37 and he's not planning to have kids, and he's gay so it won't just happen by accident 01:55:44 he told me gay people are a gentrifying force for this reason 01:55:45 So xs contains three symbols, each is x, but each has a different environment 01:56:13 Maybe I should have said append!, since append! mutates its first argument 01:56:16 holy shit 01:56:22 so many fucking questions about whether east palo alto is dangerous 01:56:26 the thing in america where schools are funded by local property taxes produces tremendous inequality 01:56:28 Do I have to worry about my car being stolen in East Palo Alto? 01:56:28 3 01:56:29 Anonymous 01:56:29 very 01:56:41 so what advantage is there over, say, (set! xs (list (delay 12) (delay 9) (delay "MOTHER FUCK OF"))) 01:56:41 but then they tried to fix that in CA and the result was that rich people voted to never pay more property taxes ever 01:56:48 Although come to think of it 01:57:00 It should have been (set! 'x 12) etc 01:57:03 kmc: hey i got a funny story about that! 01:57:03 Not (set! x 12) 01:57:22 elliott: "Anonymous: very [Qualifications: I am a car thief in East Palo Alto]" 01:57:42 haha 01:57:44 i live in a rural area and everybody hates taxes and there was a vote to raise property taxes in a levy 01:57:56 and if it didn't pass, the district wouldn't have enough money to continue existing, and would dissolve! 01:58:05 it failed right 01:58:06 in which case, apparently, the state swoops down and redistricts everything 01:58:24 which would put everybody in nearby districts with higher taxes than the levy would raise them to! 01:58:40 basically what i'm saying is that i fucking hate where i live help 01:58:48 so did it pass in the end 01:59:06 yeah it actually did 01:59:11 makes sense 01:59:13 the latest one failed though, so there's been huge layoffs 01:59:25 they voted to have the worst possible schools that wouldn't be shut down by the state 01:59:53 when i told this to coworkers they didn't believe me, because that would be too fucking stupid. well, here we are, coworkers 02:00:22 hm i want to put this down to 'collective action is hard' but i think there's no individual incentive to defect, either 02:00:23 Bike: imo move to california hth 02:00:47 Can't they not raise taxes in Cali without a supermajority 02:01:58 also my parents grew up there and they told me about "smog days" so now i kind of slightly consider it Mordor even though that's dumb & also wrong. 02:02:42 can confirm that california is mordor 02:03:04 if the smog doesn't convince you consider the gigantic fiery eye that watches over it all, that's kind of a give-away 02:03:18 plus california somehow has like a trillion more disasters even though i can see like three active volcanos from my house?? 02:03:34 well in california they don't see the volcanoes 02:04:00 Bike: I think smog is a problem in LA area but not nearly so much in northern CA 02:04:04 i actually live within walking distance of a caldera and i'm pretty sure i'm safer than i'd be in california 02:04:07 in SF they just have fog with an f 02:04:12 which is better because it doesn't attack your lungs 02:04:17 kmc: yeah it's not as bad in the south as it was when they were kids anyway 02:04:21 yeah 02:04:27 CA got serious about emissions standards 02:04:33 which helped the whole country 02:04:34 New York City: What are the best places in NY for an existentialist solo traveller to go? 02:04:39 what the fuck makes a solo traveller "existentialist" 02:04:46 being pretentious as fuck 02:04:48 they're a clone of sartre 02:04:48 hth 02:04:57 "i can highly recommend this place for solo travellers, but ONLY IF THEY'rE EXISTENTIALISTS" 02:05:13 it has 1 answer: "A long night walk through the Bronx can be a challenge to your existence." 02:05:13 "The Existential Crisis"? 02:05:19 * Bike imagines Quora reviews of locales from Kafka stories 02:05:34 "lawkeeper wouldn't let me in, zero stars" 02:05:45 kmc: i keep forgetting that LA is in californi 02:05:45 a 02:05:52 i keep forgetting that LA is even in this universe 02:06:05 common mistake 02:06:37 Jesus: Why was Jesus crucified? 02:07:04 answer: [entire quoted text of summa theologica] 02:07:43 its because they wanted him to not be alive any more 02:08:48 about sums it up, you gotta admit 02:09:46 they wanted him to not be alive because they didnt like jesus 02:10:21 wow the summa theologica is three thousand pages 02:10:46 "wrong place, wrong time" 02:11:09 it's "summa" for a reason, man! 02:11:25 "summa theologica" as in "summa dat theologica" 02:11:53 yo pass me the theologica bro i got a good feeling about this drag 02:14:13 That theologica is some good shit. 02:14:26 I be seein' da holy ghost 02:17:06 itym i and i 02:18:02 kmc: are you back in bosstown 02:18:28 no, long layover at ORD 02:21:27 not very far out of the way, though: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SJC-ORD-BOS,SJC-BOS 02:39:06 elliott: should i become a world famous rapper 02:39:16 yes 02:39:25 oerjan: [[andor]] is still not fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!! 02:40:08 acting masta b 02:40:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:42:59 Phantom_Hoover: what are you doing joining here at 3:40 02:43:21 i have a brief respite from exams so fuck sleeping at reasonable hours 02:43:24 itym 19:40 hth 02:43:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:43:34 hey kmc i need "drug opinions". 02:43:37 "Rehab is such a fucking joke I can't even mention it without the disclaimer that it's really not going to work at all. I know it's probably a shitty thing to say since for many people it is a last resort before death, but if anything will drive you to drug use it is rehab. Try to take a bunch of LSD or something, shit, just get off the damn heroin." 02:43:44 actually don't fuck sleeping at reasonable hours because i still feel guilty for being up at dawn 02:43:52 good thing to say to a heroin addict y/n 02:44:09 Phantom_Hoover: the great thing about i was going to go to bed early is, it's fucking light outside already 02:44:12 this fucking season 02:44:19 it wasn't even fully dark at 10 pm 02:44:28 ON THAT SUBJECT 02:44:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:55 elliott: move to san francisco hth 02:46:06 "where it's always dark"? 02:46:41 where it's always the place to be 02:46:58 Bike: not qualified to say, hth 02:47:01 good night fuckers 02:47:05 kmc: get addicted to heroin 02:47:07 darn 02:47:15 no u 02:47:55 #haskell-heroinaddicts 02:48:01 silly heroin addicts, always taking that heroin 02:48:16 shit, just get off the damn heroin, hth 02:48:17 i'm not addicted to heroin anymore, but i'm addicted to being addicted to heroin. so i'm having p. bad withdrawal right now 02:48:37 I’m addicted to shachaf’s heroin addiction. 02:48:54 ion: itym #cslounge-trainspotting hth 02:49:27 I mean #erlang-requiemforadream 02:50:22 a monad darkly 02:51:38 actually, a lens darkly, huh. 02:53:09 420 smoke substance d every day 02:53:31 * kmc → plane, again 02:53:39 splits your mind in two so you can blaze it twice as hard 02:53:45 snake → plane 03:05:44 The Clojure/West Racket video doesn't come out until September :( 03:06:03 is that a rap music video 03:36:07 -!- rntz has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 03:36:15 -!- rntz has joined. 03:39:01 -!- ineiros has joined. 03:41:42 -!- ineiros_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:59:37 -!- myname has joined. 04:00:24 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:32:49 I briefly forgot how to imperative 04:43:56 easy, always think about it like the whole program is a monad 04:44:38 I think the word "monad" should be banned. 04:44:55 for what reason? 04:45:37 -!- conehead has joined. 04:48:25 ...There's a proposal to add single-dispatch generic functions to Python 04:48:33 Isn't that pretty much the point of OO? 04:48:35 the way you just used it is nonsense myname 04:49:36 that is one reason 04:49:39 Although splitting out a separate 'generic function' mechanism allows said functions to be sanely namespaced 04:49:50 I wish OO languages namespaced their method names 04:50:25 how do you mean 04:51:05 foo.bar() if two modules have different meanings of .bar, and wanted to extend object to have .bar(), there's a conflict in most languages where that is possible 04:51:35 But if you do similar bar(foo) where bar is a generic function, no issue, because different bars from each module. 04:51:49 you're talking about, like, mixins? 04:51:50 So why not have in foo.bar() syntax the bar be namespaced 04:52:10 afk again, sorry 04:52:12 ttyl 05:04:36 -!- bobbers has joined. 05:05:21 -!- bobbers has quit (Client Quit). 05:14:26 -!- ehaliewicz has joined. 05:15:07 i feel like writing a compiler for a small esoteric language 05:15:09 any ideas? 05:20:23 Eodermdrome 05:23:41 i should have figured you guys wouldn't make it easy 05:23:59 the fuck is this 05:24:36 is this the fuck 05:24:43 yes 05:25:59 it is 05:43:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:49:56 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:50:34 ehaliewicz: well Brainfuck was designed primarily to admit very simple compilers 05:50:58 in fact I don't think it was explicitly designed to be unusual or difficult to program in, so it might not count as a true esolang 05:51:16 that was a quick plane ride 05:51:41 it was more of a car ride 05:53:27 -!- ehaliewicz has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 05:54:07 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:54:43 epicmonkey: how about befunge? 05:54:52 did you drive for two hours to the airport 05:55:04 they left, myname 05:55:49 oh 05:57:33 they'll fungepile another day 05:58:20 Bike Bike B i k e 05:58:26 tell me a story 05:59:08 hm, what's a story. 06:01:01 One day God made an infinite number of worlds, each with an infinite number of people who were all infinitely happy. They all lived happily for infinite time. 06:01:04 Not a ery good story. 06:01:38 p. good story 06:01:42 but infinity is too hard for me 06:02:11 can you try 3↑↑↑↑↑3 instead 06:02:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:03:03 Yeah, sure. 06:03:15 go on, tell it 06:03:41 Once upon a time, technology among people advanced to the point where they could form and dissolve social connections among each other with just a thought. 06:04:12 Lots and lots of friendships dissolved and formed throughout the throngs of humanity every millisecond. There were so many people and so much talking that nobody would be able to keep track of it. 06:05:42 People tried, though. They used visualization software that drew negative relationships like hatred or alimony as red, and positive relationships like love or appreciation as blue. 06:06:36 But before finding a group that was entirely filled with mutual hate or mutual love, I got bored and found it in porn intead. The end. 06:09:38 you found mutual hate in porn? 06:10:59 more likely than love in porn 06:14:31 well, on professional porn at least 06:28:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:29:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:49:59 Bike: starting your story with a deus ex machina is usually considered in poor form 06:50:41 are you arguing with the genius of euripides 06:58:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:05:03 There once was a guy called Euripides, who wrote some pretty tragic stories. People tried to get him to write happier stories, but he would not change no matter what they did. Finally, a god descended from the rigging and put happy endings in his stories. The end. 07:06:18 limerick? 07:07:29 i miss the limerickdb 07:33:58 kmc: There once was a guy called Euripides who wrote many watery tragedies. His style, he defended, until god descended and forced him to write divine remedies. 07:34:27 * kmc claps 07:57:57 -!- nooga has joined. 08:08:34 -!- yonkie_ has joined. 08:11:18 -!- yonkie__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:24:45 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:33:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:44:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:47:05 -!- Lymia has joined. 09:13:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:13:58 -!- DH____ has joined. 09:20:03 how do people just pop out limericks like that? I seem to be lacking that skill 09:22:00 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:22:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 09:24:03 There was a chap from Scandinavia/Who didn't have any poetic behaviour/So online he complained/And helpfulness reigned/Taneb became his limerick saviour 09:25:39 There should be an esoteric language where the only valid code is limericks 09:25:43 Anything else is a compiler error 09:25:55 A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use in my prose / Multiocular 'O's / But my poems are alphanumeric." 09:27:09 shachaf wins this round 09:27:22 shachaf wins all rounds 09:27:26 unless multiocular o has appeared in limericks before, that might change things 09:27:43 ꙮ 09:28:16 A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use in my prose / ꙮ's / But my poems are alphanumeric." 09:28:33 I should've gone for it. 09:28:37 yes 09:29:38 There should be a game where you tell us things to write limericks about and we write them! 09:29:44 And they have to be really bad. 09:30:14 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:14 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:14 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:14 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:33 maybe someone already did that and called it #esoteric? 09:30:44 Perhaps life is one big limerick. 09:30:53 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 09:30:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:30:54 -!- aloril has joined. 09:30:54 -!- tswett has joined. 09:30:54 easy, always thing about it like the whole program is a limerick 09:31:00 s/g/k/ 09:35:19 a limerick esolang can't be a new idea... has really no-one already done it? 09:41:37 MULTIÖCULAR O is my secret weapon. 09:43:43 Have you ever read Lear's limericks? 09:44:27 I am not quite sure how to enjoy them 09:45:33 ꙮ̈ 09:46:36 perhaps you could enjoy them multiocularly? 09:47:10 Is 2 enough? 09:47:39 no, two is not multi enough 09:48:00 insufficientocularly 09:48:34 I'm afraid that I am inoculated. 10:05:47 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:25:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:33:29 -!- tswett_ has joined. 10:40:13 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:13 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:13 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:42:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:42:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:45:05 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 10:45:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:45:05 -!- aloril has joined. 10:57:45 -!- yonkie_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:08:02 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/feb/04/2 11:08:08 OK wow 11:08:14 the CIA are a bunch of idiots 11:20:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:20:37 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:23:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:24:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:29:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:38:03 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:47:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:08:31 -!- nooga_ has joined. 12:12:50 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:30:46 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (*.net *.split). 12:30:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 12:30:47 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 12:34:20 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 12:34:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:34:20 -!- aloril has joined. 12:42:07 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:42:30 -!- tertu has joined. 12:44:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:55:16 -!- boily has joined. 12:58:26 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:06:46 shachaf: i have no idea where this [[andor]] you are referring to is 13:07:06 wikipedia has And/or, and wiktionary refers to the swedish word 13:07:10 oerjan, It's got a forast moon 13:07:21 Taneb: wat 13:07:43 The Forast Moon of Andor 13:08:09 however, clearly metasepia should use ~andor for its swedish searches 13:08:25 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 13:08:25 -!- iamcal___ has joined. 13:08:38 -!- oerjan has kicked Taneb There has to be limits. 13:08:42 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 13:09:04 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:09:40 ~andor surströmming 13:09:40 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 13:09:44 oerjan: you should op me!! 13:09:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:09:46 Phantom_Hoover: amazing 13:09:56 ~andor surströmming 13:09:56 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 13:10:11 why is metasepia here when boily isn't 13:10:17 uhm. I am. 13:10:22 oh 13:10:38 good, then you can get working on implementing the swedish search hth 13:11:26 when I'll get unsick again. yesterday I was spontaneously losing weight, and today I have low blood pressure. 13:11:45 i'll come to your funeral 13:11:58 i guess weight loss that you notice in a single day is rather serious. 13:12:05 you'll have to come to... Canada ♪ (with a scare chord) 13:12:20 oerjan: nothing that I couldn't unstomach. 13:12:23 If I lost weight, I'd... 13:12:28 be in serious trouble 13:12:49 ~eval 60 * 2.2 13:12:49 thin as a stick, that's Taneb 13:12:49 Error (1): 13:12:51 ~eval 60 * 2.2 13:12:51 Error (1): 13:13:01 what the stupid dammit aaaaargh! 13:13:12 > 60 * 2.2 13:13:26 `eval 60 * 2.2 13:13:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: eval: not found 13:13:34 *sigh* 13:13:38 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:13:38 -!- iamcal___ has changed nick to iamcal__. 13:13:50 `run ghc -e '60 * 2.2' 13:13:56 132.0 13:14:20 thanks. 13:14:39 (meanwhile, the reason that cephalopod isn't coöperative: mueval-core: /usr/lib/ghc-7.6.2/settings: openFile: does not exist (No such file or directory)) 13:14:52 ~eval "poulet" 13:14:52 Error (1): Could not find module `Math.Gamma' 13:14:52 Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 13:15:07 ~eval "poulet" 13:15:08 Error (1): Could not find module `Data.Numbers.Primes' 13:15:08 Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 13:15:16 ~eval "poulet" 13:15:16 Error (1): Could not find module `Crypto.PBKDF2' 13:15:16 Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 13:15:35 you'll have to come to... Canada ♪ (with a scare chord) <-- i am not sure that singing canada with a scare chord is possible hth 13:17:23 oh wait chords are for instruments 13:17:56 on of our best humorists demonstrated that in fact, you can't lest you break your instrument. 13:18:08 ooh 13:18:13 in a sketch that involved zombies and a cellist in a closet. 13:18:24 s/^on/one/ 13:18:42 this is clearly important information 13:19:19 ~eval "poulet" 13:19:20 "poulet" 13:19:28 at last! 13:19:59 ~eval "kyckling" 13:20:00 "kyckling" 13:20:13 ~eval "tamhöna" 13:20:14 "tamh\246na" 13:20:17 meh. 13:20:20 -!- nooga has joined. 13:21:05 ~eval "hello" & ix 3 .~ 'z' 13:21:08 Error (1): 13:21:16 ~eval "hello" & ix 3 .~ 'z' 13:21:17 "helzo" 13:21:48 wat 13:22:02 oerjan: black magic. 13:22:24 also fix that Error (1): stuff hth 13:24:37 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:24:43 -!- augur_ has joined. 13:28:21 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 13:29:04 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 13:30:43 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (*.net *.split). 13:30:49 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 13:31:00 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:31:21 ~eval read "3" :: Int 13:31:22 3 13:33:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:33:31 oerjan: I just remembered, I have a github repo for that aquatic creature. https://github.com/pfcuttle/metasepia 13:33:54 for any complaint, suggestion and other disagreements, you can issue. 13:34:27 132.0 13:34:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds). 13:34:30 -!- yiyus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 254 seconds). 13:34:57 github, killing complaints since 20something 13:35:20 lambdabot: you are slow hth 13:36:26 ~help 13:36:26 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 13:37:08 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:37:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:37:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:37:20 -!- olsner has joined. 13:37:59 -!- nooga has joined. 13:38:13 -!- clog has joined. 13:38:30 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 13:39:05 everything is opless! 13:39:13 (see global notice) 13:39:24 oo 13:40:32 eh? 13:40:49 boily: I wish it had the actual source code 13:40:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:40:51 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:40:51 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:41:01 -!- atehwa has joined. 13:41:20 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 13:41:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:41:34 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:41:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 13:43:26 -!- quintopia has joined. 13:43:28 Meow 13:43:59 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:55 FreeFull, feles es? 13:44:55 FreeFull: I need to rewrite everything. I can send you the original archive if you'd like to have a peek. 13:45:36 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:45:51 ~eval Phantom__Hoover 13:45:51 Error (1): Not in scope: data constructor `Phantom__Hoover' 13:46:06 ~eval data P = Phantom__Hoover 13:46:06 Error (1): :1:1: parse error on input `data' 13:46:17 Aw 13:46:34 I know. 13:46:38 ~eval putStrLn "3" 13:46:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:46:47 Waait 13:46:49 Did that actualy work 13:46:58 that shouldn't. 13:47:09 that really shouldn't have worked. I'm disturbed here. 13:47:22 >:D 13:47:33 oh, nothing bad. he just splitted. 13:49:14 > error "3" 13:49:15 *Exception: 3 13:49:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Guest31779. 13:49:28 -!- quintopia has changed nick to Guest34689. 13:49:28 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest65081. 13:49:35 :o 13:49:54 -!- Guest65081 has quit (Changing host). 13:49:54 -!- Guest65081 has joined. 13:50:10 -!- Guest65081 has changed nick to FreeFull. 13:51:27 I really wish I could filter the output of :browse somehow 13:52:05 > fail "3" 13:52:07 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 a0)) 13:52:07 arising from a use of `M66788873... 13:52:15 > fail "3" :: IO a 13:52:16 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO a0)) 13:52:16 arising from a use of ... 13:52:22 Ok 13:52:26 Wait 13:52:31 ~eval fail "3" :: IO a 13:52:58 -!- elliott_ has joined. 13:54:28 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:55:19 ~eval iterate id 0 13:55:26 Oh, it's gone 13:55:33 I wonder if I did that :D 13:55:38 boily: Was it me? 13:56:05 one squid down, millions to go 13:56:25 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:56:54 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 14:03:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:06:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:07:47 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:13:52 -!- tswett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:14:44 -!- tswett has joined. 14:14:44 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:14:44 -!- tswett has joined. 14:14:52 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:17:04 -!- Guest31779 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:17:48 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:19:12 FreeFull: just a moment, rebooting the calamari... 14:19:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:19:32 ~eval "鶏" 14:19:32 "\40335" 14:19:50 ~eval fail "3" 14:19:51 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 a0)) 14:19:51 arising from a use of `M2019754395415980596.show_M2019754395415980596' 14:19:51 The type variables `m0', `a0' are ambiguous 14:19:51 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 14:19:51 Note: there are several potential instances: 14:19:51 instance (GHC.Real.Integral a, GHC.Show.Show a) => 14:19:51 GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Real.Ratio a) 14:19:52 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Real' 14:19:52 instance (GHC.Show.Show a, GHC.Show.Show b) => GHC.Show.Show (a, b) 14:19:53 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Show' 14:19:53 instance (GHC.Show.Show a, GHC.Show.Show b, GHC.Show.Show c) => 14:19:54 GHC.Show.Show (a, b, c) 14:20:03 you didn't see nothing. 14:20:07 You should probably cull the output 14:20:21 ~eval fail "3" :: IO a 14:20:21 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO a0)) 14:20:22 arising from a use of `M2146710962901742287.show_M2146710962901742287' 14:20:22 Possible fix: 14:20:22 add an instance declaration for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO a0)) 14:20:25 I think that's the most pressing urging important issue right now. 14:20:33 and no, no IO, you vile hacker that you are. 14:20:50 ~eval 1 2 3 14:20:50 Error (1): Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num 14:20:50 (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> t)) 14:20:50 arising from the ambiguity check for `e_1123' 14:20:50 from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t), 14:20:50 GHC.Num.Num a, 14:20:51 GHC.Num.Num a1) 14:20:51 bound by the inferred type for `e_1123': 14:20:52 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:20:52 (GHC.Num.Num (a -> a1 -> t), GHC.Num.Num a, GHC.Num.Num a1) => t 14:20:52 at :(2,54)-(3,5) 14:20:53 Possible fix: 14:20:53 add an instance declaration for 14:20:54 (GHC.Num.Num 14:20:54 (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> t))No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 14:20:55 arising from a use of `M3112136935042015385.show_M3112136935042015385' 14:24:14 -!- sivoais has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:27:46 -!- ssue__ has joined. 14:28:57 -!- rntz^2_ has joined. 14:29:43 -!- clog_ has joined. 14:30:27 -!- ssue_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:27 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:27 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:28 -!- ssue__ has changed nick to ssue_. 14:30:29 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 14:30:38 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:30:39 -!- sivoais has quit (Changing host). 14:30:39 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:30:40 -!- FreeFull_ has quit (Changing host). 14:30:40 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 14:34:28 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 14:36:35 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 14:36:35 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (*.net *.split). 14:36:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 14:36:35 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 14:38:32 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:40:19 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:40:43 -!- rntz^2_ has changed nick to rntz. 14:40:51 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:41:56 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:47:46 `? ⊥ 14:47:47 ​⊥? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 14:48:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:48:51 -!- tswett has joined. 14:48:51 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 14:48:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:48:51 -!- aloril has joined. 14:48:56 we'll never see the bottom of that soon, I fear... 14:52:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:53:10 -!- Koen___ has joined. 14:53:45 `pastewisdom 14:53:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 14:53:56 `learn ⊥ is a bottom tack, useful for annoying teachers. 14:54:00 I knew that. 14:55:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:58:13 btw, any news on the II? 14:58:34 what's the II 14:59:02 Infamous Interview. 14:59:16 `seen cpressey 14:59:20 2013-05-30 22:48:16: `learn /quit 14:59:35 `seen jsvine 14:59:39 2013-05-29 20:57:30: Bye for now. 14:59:44 hey, hey 14:59:47 hi! 14:59:58 I've just been tied up with a couple other stories. 15:00:03 He has been summoned! 15:00:06 But my interest in esolangs remains! 15:01:10 by the ancient art of cephalopodomancy, I brought forth The Journalist! 15:01:46 is this some kind of jon ronson affair where you hang out and try not to be confrontational so you can get a goldmine of weirdness for the public to point and laugh at 15:01:46 WELL IS IT 15:03:36 Not intentionally, at least. 15:04:23 ~yi 15:04:23 Your divination: "Treading" to "Arguing" 15:04:28 eek, i just edited [[Jesus]]... 15:04:46 that's what ronson would say! 15:04:53 ~duck ronson 15:04:54 --- No relevant information 15:04:58 ~duck jon ronson 15:04:58 Jon Ronson is a British journalist, documentary filmmaker, radio presenter and nonfiction author, whose works include The Men Who Stare at Goats. 15:05:06 oh, him! 15:05:30 if I'm being stared at, I think I'm not a goat. 15:06:04 oerjan: you tempt me to start inserting "Issac Newton" in random Wikipedia pages 15:06:44 eek 15:06:45 "The Twenty-first Amendment (Amendment XXI) to the United Issac Newton States Constitution repealed the Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution" 15:07:12 oerjan: i like how you left the "newton" lowercase in http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Timeline_of_scientific_experiments&diff=prev&oldid=557022110 15:07:34 IsSaC nEwToN 15:07:39 oh i did? 15:08:21 i knew editing Jesus was bad luck, now hexhammers are stalking me 15:09:29 fixum 15:09:55 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:12:57 Taneb: i suspect that might backfire hth 15:12:57 -!- nooga has joined. 15:13:35 I'm sure I don't know what you are talking about 15:14:20 OKAY 15:17:27 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/mar/25/weekend.jonronson (i apologise to jsvine for earlier taking out my ronsonmania on him) 15:19:30 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 15:19:51 -!- sacje has joined. 15:22:58 i guess today's xkcd was inevitable. 15:24:02 -!- jconn has joined. 15:25:07 -!- ggherdov has joined. 15:25:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:25:50 oerjan: i don't get it :( 15:26:15 It's a reference to the Abbot and Costello sketch "Who's on first" 15:26:28 -!- rodgort` has quit 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joined. 17:08:07 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:08:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 17:08:07 -!- ineiros has joined. 17:08:07 -!- myname has joined. 17:08:07 -!- Jafet has joined. 17:08:07 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:08:07 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:08:07 -!- tertu has joined. 17:08:07 -!- boily has joined. 17:08:07 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 17:08:07 -!- tromp_ has joined. 17:08:07 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 17:08:07 -!- yiyus has joined. 17:08:07 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:08:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:08:07 -!- ssue_ has joined. 17:08:07 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:08:07 -!- tswett has joined. 17:08:07 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 17:08:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:08:07 -!- aloril has joined. 17:11:53 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 17:12:20 -!- ion has joined. 17:12:31 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:17:15 this is q. silly 17:17:31 also fungot's on the other side of the split, booo 17:19:14 qilly 17:19:53 robert q. silly 17:20:30 Phantom__Hoover: that just means this is the wrong side 17:20:46 but the logbots are here 17:20:46 well duh 17:21:48 that just means they're not logging fungot 17:22:39 maybe fungot will use the opportunity to reach the singularity. 17:24:00 next up: achieving sentience through botlops 17:24:08 *+o 17:24:23 also *sapience 17:25:20 yesterday pressing the random button got me to http://www.reddit.com/r/dogswitheyebrows 17:27:06 -!- Guest34689 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:29:31 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:29:47 `run echo is the backquote bot still alive? 17:29:49 is the backquote bot still alive? 17:30:20 `? ` 17:30:22 ​`? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:30:53 `learn botlops are the core of botsentiences. Sapience is scheduled for the next release. 17:30:57 I knew that. 17:31:05 `learn ` is the prefix to greatness. 17:31:09 I knew that. 17:31:12 `? ` 17:31:14 ​` is the prefix to greatness. 17:31:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:31:28 ~ is better than `. 17:31:28 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 17:31:37 boily: um are you preserving my typo on purpose 17:31:48 oerjan: which one? :p 17:32:07 "lop" 17:32:13 botlops and body weigh 17:32:22 the #esoteric story 17:32:54 * oerjan recalls the hings of #initgame of yore 17:33:15 @wn yore 17:33:16 *** "yore" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 17:33:16 yore 17:33:16 n 1: time long past 17:34:15 ~duck yore 17:34:15 yore definition: time past and especially long past usually used in the phrase of yore. 17:35:07 `thanks test 17:35:09 Thanks, test. Thest. 17:35:30 `thanks nooodl 17:35:32 Thanks, nooodl. Thooodl. 17:35:59 `thanks thanks 17:36:01 Thanks, thanks. Thanks. 17:36:09 `thanks Tchaikovsky 17:36:10 Thanks, Tchaikovsky. Thaikovsky. 17:36:32 `thanks a 17:36:34 Thanks, a. Tha. 17:36:34 `thanks Mgrvgrvladje 17:36:36 Thanks, Mgrvgrvladje. Thadje. 17:36:55 muh-guhrv-*choke* 17:37:17 boily: be sure to make it just two syllables hth 17:37:19 `thanks q 17:37:21 Thanks, q. Th. 17:37:23 th 17:38:05 nick Bike 17:38:09 awesome. 17:38:11 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:38:18 msg nickserv identify bikeluvr2013 17:38:27 bick nike 17:39:32 anyone of you tried playing DDEE? I seem to have trouble surviving, which is quite contrary to the Goal of the Character Build. 17:39:58 boily: you totally fuck up my #esoteric vs. ##crawl senses on a regular basis 17:40:02 especially given that they are adjacent in irssi 17:40:51 boily: use my 14 runer guide 17:41:00 * boily whistles innocently ♪ 17:41:08 nooodl: ah? you have one? 17:41:16 1. play crawl 2. dont do tomb 3. win 17:41:23 v. effective "ask elliott" 17:41:24 unfortunately henzell isnt here so i have to paste this manually 17:41:25 18:41:09 ??dd guide 17:41:25 18:41:10 dd guide[1/1]: Worship Makhleb. Use the wand of heal wounds to heal. If it runs out of charges, recharge it. 17:41:54 anyway this advice sounds really stupid but 17:41:57 reddit is creaking :( 17:42:21 try not to get hit?? like be careful about losing any hp at all early on 17:42:24 but I like tomb. that sense of complete, utterless feeling of mediocrity, of impending doom... it is invigorating! 17:42:56 nooodl: I think that's it. I used to play DDNe some time ago, and when you hit vampiric draining, everything goes smooth afterwards. 17:43:04 there's something nasty in this game, but i cannot quite put my tomb on it 17:43:23 yeah, here it's like that except "when you start gaining hp from makhleb" 17:45:06 i also suggest not playing dd because it's no fun 17:46:46 I had my SpEn victory from 2011, I did a MiFi two weeks ago, and now I want to achieve something different. 17:47:20 I tried skald. I died. then I deceased. then I not lived. then I died again, but more painfully. 17:55:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:01:05 -!- jsvine has joined. 18:03:04 huh 18:03:53 I can't even ascend in (Un)Brogue 18:04:18 I'm afraid to try other, more complex roguelikes 18:04:35 brogue is better than crawl tbh 18:17:58 oh, and speaking of limericks, http://i.imgur.com/4J7Il0m.jpg 18:18:44 ~eval "tamhöna" <-- that means something like domesticated hen, hth 18:19:50 (chicken is "kyckling" and no-one bothers asking where they come from) 18:20:12 olsner: that's what Wiki says, and verily the Word of Wiki is the Truth. 18:20:26 olsner: you could read a few lines up in the log hth 18:20:29 oerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andor , which says "logical conjunctio", hth 18:22:49 oerjan: not presently helping, hth 18:23:19 there was a line about kyckling just above the one about tamhöna, but that doesn't imply boily knows anything 18:25:25 but, but... tamhöna has a superb diæresis... 18:27:06 half the rest of the words in swedish do as well and no-one even cares :P 18:27:28 tamḧona 18:27:43 taaahmhoenah 18:29:02 or perhaps tawmhoenah 18:36:28 boily: i don't think it's a "diæresis" if it isn't used to split a diphthong into vowels, then it's an umlaut instead hth 18:37:16 oerjan: goöd point. 18:40:54 shachaf: there is no missing n at the end of "conjunction" hth 18:41:24 there's a problem of terminology though... 18:41:59 oerjan: the missing n was my fault hth 18:42:09 but the word conjunction was not hth 18:42:31 kmc: did you see the limerick from earlier 18:42:42 which one 18:42:58 shachaf: better now? 18:43:06 A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poems are alphanumeric." 18:43:32 oerjan: um, maybe 18:43:36 i don't know about grammar 18:43:40 that's wonderful 18:43:56 that's so good 18:44:17 although I must point out that ꙮ is indeed a Letter, Other character 18:44:58 poetic license etc. 18:45:35 :) 18:46:00 i love this limerick 18:46:14 i don't know about grammar <-- ok perhaps it's good you don't edit wikipedia then. 18:46:31 oerjan: see, it's selfless 18:46:50 > reverse "selfless" 18:46:51 "sselfles" 18:47:06 > sort "selfless" 18:47:07 "eefllsss" 18:47:14 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 18:47:15 > sort "abelian" 18:47:17 "aabeiln" 18:47:19 > permutations "selfless" 18:47:20 ["selfless","eslfless","lesfless","elsfless","lsefless","slefless","flesles... 18:47:37 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 18:47:40 selfless in flesland 18:49:32 wow wikipedia is full of evil prescriptivists 18:49:44 imo only good prescriptivists should be allowed 18:49:51 word 18:49:52 the horror 18:50:00 Yike 18:50:13 euprescriptivists? 18:50:22 you should never end a sentence a preposition with 18:50:49 `thanks shachaf 18:50:50 Thanks, shachaf. Thachaf. 18:51:00 to endeavor never an infinitive split 18:51:04 `thanks kmc 18:51:06 the prepositions, up in which, your sentences never shall end 18:51:06 use postposition for that issue 18:51:06 Thanks, kmc. Th. 18:51:29 `cat bin/thanks 18:51:30 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo $1 | sed 's/^[^aeiou]*\(.*\)/Thanks, \0. Th\1./' 18:51:37 (all of them, they are) 18:52:34 i'm gonna IMPROVe it hold on 18:52:36 nooodl: plz sed -i 's/\$1/"$@"/' bin/thanks # hth 18:53:09 its gonna be even better 18:53:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:55:17 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 18:57:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:58:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:58:11 -!- Guest20365 has quit (Changing host). 18:58:11 -!- Guest20365 has joined. 18:58:13 -!- Guest20365 has changed nick to function. 18:58:33 `smlist 18:58:35 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 18:58:38 @ask mnoqy `smlist 18:58:38 Consider it noted. 19:00:05 -mno-key ... I wonder what that does, if anything 19:03:06 it plays a song _very_ badly hth 19:03:59 perhaps it is a forbidden note hth 19:04:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLy-AwdCOmI Like this. 19:04:41 spooky 19:05:36 now i feel awful 19:06:40 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 19:07:25 `fetch http://bpaste.net/raw/uYWFUgW0diLjGj2EYiKV/ 19:07:28 2013-06-05 19:07:27 URL:http://bpaste.net/raw/uYWFUgW0diLjGj2EYiKV/ [133/133] -> "index.html" [1] 19:07:32 `mv index.html bin/thanks 19:07:34 mv: missing destination file operand after `index.html bin/thanks' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. 19:07:45 `run mv index.html bin/thanks 19:07:48 No output. 19:07:50 `run chmod +x bin/thanks 19:07:54 No output. 19:07:56 `thanks nooodl 19:07:57 Thanks, nooodl. Thooodl. 19:08:02 Fancy. 19:08:04 `thanks kmc 19:08:06 Thanks, kmc. Tmc. 19:08:11 :) 19:08:11 nailed it. 19:08:14 `thanks 19:08:18 Thanks, pilent \ . Thilent \ . 19:08:22 `thanks 19:08:25 `thanks Purple people eater 19:08:26 Thanks, strek \ . Thek \ . 19:08:27 Thanks, Purple people eater. Thurple people eater. 19:08:31 oh it needs a chomp 19:09:41 `run sed -i 's/words`/words`.chomp/' bin/thanks 19:09:45 No output. 19:09:49 `thanks 19:09:53 Thanks, brotoh \ 0. Thotoh \ 0. 19:09:58 help 19:10:00 I like it this way. 19:10:03 HELPp 19:10:13 Where is it even getting those 19:10:18 `words 19:10:19 Thanks, brotoh \ 0. Thotoh \ 0. 19:10:21 elliott: a sign of the crapocalypse 19:10:22 shmee 19:10:23 here 19:10:33 `paste bin/words 19:10:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/words 19:11:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:12:23 `paste bin/thanks 19:12:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/thanks 19:12:49 `words 19:12:53 zevigita 19:12:55 `words 19:12:58 govent 19:13:14 are these actual words or markov thingies 19:13:19 i can't tell :') 19:13:31 markov, i'm pretty certain 19:13:37 `words 19:13:41 rat 19:13:44 `words 19:13:48 untradiak 19:13:48 clever, hackego 19:14:28 rat 19:14:29 `run for i in {1..10}; do words; done 19:14:39 itym `words 10 hth 19:14:50 koj \ incir \ manlzeil \ cial \ sda \ eynotique \ hirto \ dualuminue \ perfule \ truko 19:14:54 how does `words`.chomp work in perl 19:15:04 thought . was concat operator................ 19:15:11 omg im dumb 19:15:18 :'-} 19:15:24 but smiling 19:16:00 `fetch http://bpaste.net/raw/cvYcEn3Sfi9wZ4cOjCIi/ 19:16:03 2013-06-05 19:16:02 URL:http://bpaste.net/raw/cvYcEn3Sfi9wZ4cOjCIi/ [139/139] -> "index.html" [1] 19:16:06 `run mv index.html bin/thanks 19:16:09 No output. 19:16:10 `run chmod +x bin/thanks 19:16:14 No output. 19:16:14 `thanks 19:16:16 Can't modify quoted execution (``, qx) in chomp at /hackenv/bin/thanks line 2, near "`words`;" \ Execution of /hackenv/bin/thanks aborted due to compilation errors. 19:16:21 `cat bin/thanks 19:16:23 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = $ARGV[0] || chomp `words`; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouy]/) { s/^[^aeiouy]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 19:16:24 excellent 19:16:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:17:09 `run sed -i 's/ `words`/(`words`)/' bin/thanks 19:17:13 No output. 19:17:17 `thanks 19:17:19 Can't modify quoted execution (``, qx) in chomp at /hackenv/bin/thanks line 2, near "`words`)" \ Execution of /hackenv/bin/thanks aborted due to compilation errors. 19:17:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:17:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Changing host). 19:17:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:17:39 fucking perl 19:18:33 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:19:41 `fetch http://bpaste.net/raw/ozchapci5TyVmaI8l97S/ 19:19:43 `run mv index.html bin/thanks 19:19:43 2013-06-05 19:19:42 URL:http://bpaste.net/raw/ozchapci5TyVmaI8l97S/ [149/149] -> "index.html" [1] 19:19:45 `run chmod +x bin/thanks 19:19:47 No output. 19:19:48 `thanks 19:19:50 No output. 19:19:51 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:19:54 Thanks, trommm. Thommm. 19:19:58 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 19:19:59 wowwwwwww 19:19:59 good 19:20:08 `thanks thinks 19:20:09 Thanks, thinks. Thinks. 19:20:13 `thanks HackEgo 19:20:15 Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo. 19:20:26 thackego. sounds good :D 19:20:41 `thanks 19:20:45 Thanks, han. Than. 19:21:01 good program 19:21:02 `thanks nooodl 19:21:04 Thanks, nooodl. Thooodl. 19:21:22 `thanks 19:21:26 Thanks, writh. Thith. 19:21:31 `thanks 19:21:32 `thanks 19:21:32 `thanks 19:21:37 Thanks, shipermy. Thipermy. 19:21:37 Thanks, enfingy. Thenfingy. 19:21:37 Thanks, cat. That. 19:21:43 cat 19:21:50 enfingy 19:22:08 sixfirhy. 19:23:24 `thanks 19:23:27 Thanks, smitten. Thitten. 19:23:45 i don't even 19:23:48 -!- rodgort` has joined. 19:24:06 `run welcome nooodl | thanks 19:24:11 Thanks, schiacker. Thiacker. 19:24:17 oh right 19:24:17 waht 19:24:20 oh 19:24:23 it takes the things from the argvs 19:24:32 major flaw 19:24:48 `thanks `run welcome nooodl 19:24:50 Thanks, `run welcome nooodl. Thun welcome nooodl. 19:25:22 `run welcome nooodl | xargs -0 thanks 19:25:25 Thanks, nooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.). Thooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! F 19:25:31 o m g 19:25:32 good 19:25:36 `run relcome nooodl | xargs -0 thanks 19:25:39 Thanks, nooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.). Thoo 19:25:43 thoo 19:25:46 where are the things when there are no argvs? 19:26:00 i literally dont understand the question 19:26:37 I don't understand `thanks either 19:26:54 oh you mean 19:26:59 `words 19:27:03 viv 19:27:07 i think this answers your question hth 19:27:21 wait did i break that, 19:27:22 `thanks 19:27:26 Thanks, gessime. Thessime. 19:27:28 gessime 19:27:28 no ok good 19:27:57 `run thanks nooodl | hyphenate.fi 19:27:59 Thanks, nooodl. Thooodl. 19:28:21 nice hyphens 19:28:36 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:29:53 `run thanks aéroglisseur | hyphenate.fr 19:29:55 bash: hyphenate.fr: command not found 19:30:17 -!- carado has joined. 19:30:27 je proteste! 19:30:44 a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur hth 19:31:14 `thanks boily nooodl 19:31:15 Thanks, boily nooodl. Thoily nooodl. 19:32:06 not thoily thooodl? 19:32:47 hmm 19:32:47 i'm pretty sure this train is banked over quite a long way while going around turns 19:32:51 `run echo "a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner." >wisdom/hovercraft 19:32:55 No output. 19:33:22 eeloglisseur, eel glider 19:33:47 it's fairly disconcerting 19:33:48 this is great 19:33:49 `thanks elliott 19:33:51 Thanks, elliott. Thelliott. 19:33:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:33:59 `thanks the elliott. 19:34:01 Thanks, the elliott.. The elliott.. 19:34:12 Phantom__Hoover: are you on a trane 19:34:35 `thanks shanks 19:34:37 Thanks, shanks. Thanks. 19:35:53 `thanks rhythm 19:35:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:35:55 Thanks, rhythm. Thythm. 19:36:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:36:19 `thanks rhythm 19:36:21 Thanks, rhythm. Thythm. 19:36:35 CLEVER 19:36:42 `thanks yottogram 19:36:43 Thanks, yottogram. Thyottogram. 19:37:02 what an awful implementation of thanks 19:37:33 What, that's totally pronounceable. 19:37:38 maybe you're just a jerk! 19:37:58 and maybe you're just a Bike 19:38:05 patches welcome 19:38:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:38:26 Bike, yes but it's WRONG 19:38:27 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:38:33 it should be thottogram 19:38:38 why 19:38:41 y? 19:38:53 because the 'y' in yottogram is a consonant 19:39:49 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:06 -!- ggherdov has joined. 19:46:18 `? hovercraft 19:46:19 a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner. 19:46:30 i shall imagine this in david suchet's voice 19:46:37 would've used Lingua::EN::Inflect, but it's not in hackego 19:46:39 ~duck david suchet 19:46:39 David Suchet, CBE (born 2 May 1946) is an English actor, known for his work on British television. 19:56:13 what exactly does ~duck search 19:56:25 ducks 19:56:26 duckduckgo? 19:57:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:57:37 nooodl is right. 19:57:54 `learn nooodl is right 19:57:57 I knew that. 19:58:45 http://hpaste.org/89381 19:59:42 oh cool, I didn't know that ddg does these definition things 20:00:06 that extractContent definition :( 20:00:26 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:00:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:01:06 elliott: I know. 20:02:32 -!- jsvine has quit (*.net *.split). 20:02:37 I think there can be some monoid thingy forast-moon applicative to replace it. 20:02:37 * kmc golfs 20:02:48 it's not the verbosity 20:02:50 extractContent (Answer{..}) = head $ filter (not . null) [abstract, answer, definition, "--- No relevant information"] 20:02:55 no wtf 20:02:57 come on! 20:03:17 that definition makes me upset in like at least five ways :( 20:03:20 kmc's i mean 20:03:31 what would you write elliott 20:03:53 uh something else 20:04:02 it's kind of bad that null strings are being used for "no answer" to start with 20:04:09 i'd try to make those Maybe Strings asap 20:04:32 then e.g. fromMaybe "nothing" (abstract ans <|> answer ans <|> definition ans) 20:04:39 maybe instead of that Answer thing, just return the wanted result directly 20:05:07 the additional things that upset me about kmc's are 1. the unnecessary parens around Answer{..} 2. the record wildcard (i hate shadowing) 20:05:08 elliott: I think there's an aeson operator to get a maybe. 20:05:12 data Answer = Answer { answer :: String } 20:05:33 olsner: well, it comes in as JSON 20:06:03 I like the <|>. that operator is way underrated. 20:06:25 is it actually unnecessary there? 20:07:17 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:07:30 i agree that Maybe String is preferable; I didn't look to see where those come from 20:07:58 this is some important stuff 20:07:59 -!- jsvine has joined. 20:08:18 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 20:08:33 Hm, where is fizzie? 20:09:03 changed nick to Taneb, I think 20:09:15 totally 20:09:36 fizzie and Taneb are the same? AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 20:10:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:10:33 someone should start calling themselves flzzle 20:12:12 elliott: (.:?) :: FromJSON a => Object -> Text -> Parser (Maybe a) 20:12:57 and that special-cases ""? 20:13:23 hmm... maybe. 20:17:56 shadowing, more like shadowing 20:18:15 `addquote shadowing, more like shadowing 20:18:19 1048) shadowing, more like shadowing 20:18:26 lol 20:20:04 boily: btw why does it safe search 20:20:23 ~duck cocks 20:20:24 cock definition: the adult male of the domestic chicken ('''Gallus gallus'''). 20:20:37 elliott: for kmc reasons. 20:21:06 ~duck penis 20:21:06 --- No relevant information 20:21:18 galliformes are such weird species 20:21:18 elliott: for *very* kmc reasons. 20:21:28 imo change that message to "INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER" 20:21:50 not sure we need more data hth 20:22:26 ~duck boily 20:22:26 --- No relevant information 20:22:29 indeed 20:23:21 there's a david boily on wikipedia (no, that's not me. my first name also isn't david.) 20:39:20 -!- jsvine1 has joined. 20:41:21 -!- jsvine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:56:17 changed nick to Taneb, I think <-- yeah right... 20:56:42 Tanebje 20:56:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:57:30 I don't even know who I am any more 20:57:59 hmm, gunpoint came out 20:58:17 on the one hand: finally i can give tom francis money; on the other hand: i don't really feel like playing it right now 20:58:42 Taneb: become Canadian. this will solve all your existential problems. 21:00:45 oh GOD and there's a version with commentary for more money i'm in crisis now 21:01:13 Phantom_Hoover, if you give me money I'll ghost-write your Tumblr for you 21:01:22 I've been practising hating brainfuck derivatives 21:01:28 I think I'm getting pretty good at it 21:01:34 if you can ghostwrite it to the standard of tom francis then yes 21:02:02 The dead cricketer? 21:02:51 if you can write to the standard of a dead cricketer then yes, i will give you money 21:04:35 i am impressed at the amount of effort it must have taken you to find the tom francis who is a dead cricketer, rather than any of the other ones 21:05:19 Phantom_Hoover, it was a simple matter of going to Wikipedia first, rather than Google 21:05:49 he is at the top of that list, i'll give you that 21:09:24 hey Taneb you should write kmc's tumblr account page 21:09:33 you can fill it with drugz jokez 21:10:16 drugse joxe 21:13:08 ~duck tom francis 21:13:08 --- No relevant information 21:13:17 ~duck is not very good 21:13:17 --- No relevant information 21:13:27 ~duck shachaf 21:13:27 --- No relevant information 21:13:34 but the rhymenocerous is very very good! 21:14:25 nooodl, he did the minecraft experiment if you read that 21:14:49 i didn't but maybe i did 21:15:04 here http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/20/the-minecraft-experiment-day-1-chasing-waterfalls/ 21:15:09 it is good, imo read it 21:16:27 ooh. so it's basically a hardcore mode LP, but before hardcore mode even existed 21:17:02 this is pretty good so far 21:18:44 oh maaaaan he's also AWFUL at minecraft, 21:18:49 great 21:19:37 hardcore mode was inspired by this, i think 21:20:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk_q05r8DcM 21:24:05 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:24:07 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:23 shachaf, btw my progress in Agda is going worringly well in the past couple of hours when compared to the preceding days 21:30:00 Taneb: have you outagdaed me 21:30:21 shachaf, probably not, how agda are you? 21:33:00 very little 21:33:44 what i know about agda: UNICODE 21:33:46 iirc i gave up on the agda tutorial when there was a bit about "of course, your category theory textbook probably tells you " 21:34:00 and also if_then_else_ is a valid thing 21:35:37 I almost stumbled on "Prove the transitivity of sublistiness" 21:36:06 why stumble 21:37:00 Because back then I did not think in Agda 21:37:17 because sublistiness is a weird word 21:37:49 i think i also got confused at one point proving something involving lists equalled something else involving lists 21:38:04 as i recall there was a proofsplosion 21:44:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:13:59 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:14:06 -!- jsvine1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:19:55 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:20:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:21:57 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:24:20 -!- tertu has changed nick to TeruFSX. 22:24:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:25:11 @messages? 22:25:11 Sorry, no messages today. 22:36:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:39:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:46:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:48:22 -!- Bike has joined. 22:49:03 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:54:15 -!- nooga_ has joined. 23:01:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:02:42 -!- Fiora has joined. 23:03:02 http://fiorasm.tumblr.com/post/52251266650/optimizing-conways-game-of-life-with-simd-and-lookup if anyone's interested I wrote up a thing 23:21:01 cool :) 23:21:03 * kmc reads 23:21:09 (the friend was bike ofc) 23:35:26 i think movhps xmm3, line3[0] 23:35:51 should have s/xmm3/xmm1/ 23:36:40 in the first copy of the eight instructions 23:37:09 thanks, fixed <.< 23:46:20 looks cool 23:57:09 Ah, the fish symbol is an l. 23:57:09 you know, Life freaks me out a bit 23:57:24 I always imagine there's this huge infinite grid somewhere that's a universe 23:57:27 it's cursive. 23:57:31 with Life playing 23:58:04 Koen___: the hashlife paper's explicit embrace of simulator metaphysics probably wouldn't help your freaking. 23:58:08 but I can't process the question: why would some cells be alive? weren't they initially all dead? 23:58:32 why would they be, in your fantasyland 23:58:41 probably not 23:59:01 but per life has a very strong definition i believe 23:59:08 what? 23:59:17 ion: oh, sorry <.< I was just scribbling in photoshop 23:59:26 fish up table 2013-06-06: 00:00:01 actually I've had a recurring nightmare since I was little and it's never stopped (as opposed to the more classic nightmares involving monsters) 00:00:09 and there's an automaton in it, or something 00:00:20 and the universe always end up implosing and I CAN'T STOP IT 00:00:25 fiora: Cool article. 00:00:34 reproduction, metabolism and 00:00:39 and whenever I wake up after that recurring automaton nightmare I try to make sense out of it but I've never succeeded 00:01:03 dont remember the last conditions 00:01:27 hagb4rd: oh, you mean the definition of real world life? nah that's a hilarious flamewar 00:01:31 simultor metaphysics? 00:01:50 kmc: the real world is running in a simulator 00:02:00 why would reproduction be necessary to define life? 00:02:07 It’s simulators all the way down. 00:02:10 the hashlife idea happens to be applicable to basically any kind of physics where you have a speed of life, so 00:02:14 speed of light* 00:02:28 hashlife is really cool and bike can explain it 100 times better than I can 00:02:52 i vaguely understand it but would appreciate a good explanation 00:03:36 what is a virus? vira don' t have metabolism.. is virus not a life form? i asked myself recently 00:03:39 ok, well, it's pretty easy. what you need is a space you want to simulate, and the physics have to have a speed of light. 00:03:49 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:03:51 but they have dna 00:04:39 you divide space into areas (in Life, squares of width 2^n for some natural n). 00:04:41 hagb4rd, it depends on what you mean by 'life'. There is no 'reality' saying "This is life, and this isn't". The term 'life' is what we define it to be 00:04:59 yea i mean from the point of the biologists 00:05:00 then for each space, you can find what the center of that space will be in some time, due to the speed of light. 00:05:51 i.e., if you have a 2^8 block in Life, the center 2^4 block can be simulated 2^3 steps ahead, without caring about any other 2^8 block, because the speed of light is 1 square per step. 00:06:27 neat 00:07:01 for representing a block of space, rather than tracking the actual Life bitmap or whatever, you just have each block be five pointers (in Life anyway), each to a block half the size of the block. 00:07:08 four quadrants + a cached future center 00:07:16 Hashlife adds to this a hash map of subspaces. 00:07:30 (as a cache, of course) 00:07:52 Koen___: http://xkcd.com/505/ hth 00:08:00 Yeah, the idea is, if you need a new space for whatever reason, you make it out of its linked subspaces, and if those subspaces have been combined before, you can just use that same previous combination. 00:08:04 which might have its future cached. 00:08:09 It turns out that Life tends to have many common subspaces, so doing this lets you skip a lot of combination via memoization. 00:08:14 Erm, computation. 00:08:39 what if i'm simulating life with SKI pikhq, what then 00:08:55 Then you are memoizing combinations as well. :P 00:10:28 aw..you're talking about the game of life 00:10:29 oerjan: yeah that was a really good one 00:11:03 well, if you want real life, virology is pretty interesting 00:11:19 there are viruses that have more protein construction mechanisms than some bacteria 00:11:20 i won't insist but yea 00:11:22 :P 00:11:38 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:11:41 "mamavirus" because what is even your deal, virologists 00:11:43 -!- nooga_ has joined. 00:12:27 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:12:51 also http://rybicki.wordpress.com/2008/03/19/from-what-did-viruses-evolve-or-how-did-they-initially-arise/ 00:13:01 thx 00:13:21 the idea that viruses have come about originally several times is a pretty neat one, since it's not the case for life in general 00:14:07 i understand it's still a controversial topic 00:14:51 well nobody really understands what the fuck happened with abiogenesis, so there's that. 00:18:34 Gotta love things where we just go "well, it clearly happened" 00:20:20 there's RNA world and clay world and all as hypotheses that are half-plausible but they're still pretty out there 00:20:41 panspermia 00:20:47 for sure 00:20:51 hail the mighty penis in the sky 00:20:55 main that ain't a real solution >: 00:21:09 main ain't usually a function 00:21:26 man* 00:22:01 yeah it isn't 00:22:19 it would be nice if we could at least conclude it, though. 00:23:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Borderline_life how useful 00:24:06 neat 00:26:17 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:26:40 borderline useful 00:26:53 viroids are cool and that's that man 00:43:09 Fiyora 00:43:11 Hike 00:43:18 hiii 00:43:20 hatchetaf 00:43:44 um...................the ch is a fricative........................................................... 00:43:57 That sounds like nerd stuff. 00:44:32 so do you hth 00:44:38 :< 00:47:27 -!- Koen___ has quit (Quit: Koen___). 00:47:55 hey Bike write me a limerick 00:48:17 there once was a man from nantucket, whose cock was so long he could suck it, 00:48:52 he said write, not quote, Bike 00:48:55 a good limerick plz thx 00:55:52 Fiora: Do you know about de bruijn sequences? 00:58:35 um... they're the things you can use to do leading-zero count with bit hackiness, right? 01:00:23 Trailing, I thought? Possibly both. Anyway that's one thing you can do with them. 01:00:26 oh that thing that's in sanskrit for some reason. 01:00:26 Also lots of other things. De Bruijn was the best. 01:02:09 other things? I remember looking at the wikipedia article and being a bit confused 01:02:45 Like magic! 01:02:55 ? 01:03:18 i think i am slowly learning how to pronounce 'shachaf' 01:03:37 And, uh, let's say you have a keypad-combination-lock with no termination digit. You can use a de bruijn sequence to figure out the most efficient way to brute-force it! 01:03:47 (Maybe it's not called brute-force at that point...) 01:04:09 I went to a talk which mentioned them. 01:04:25 it's hebrew isn't it? and if i've learned anything from Rugrats it's that i can't pronounce hebrew "ch" 01:04:33 we had a lot of locks like that in college, and people did bruteforce them 01:04:37 שחף hth 01:04:44 except I think they weren't precisely with-no-termination-digit 01:04:59 シャチャフ? 01:05:08 i fucking love that first kana 01:05:24 It looks like a sideways smiley XD 01:05:40 the combination lock thing is neat though 01:05:47 Fiora: I doubt it. The "ch" is as in the recording on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_fricative 01:06:20 oh. darn. I can't kana that 01:06:34 we clearly need hebrew with a japanese alphabet 01:07:15 The effect was something along these lines: He handed out a deck of cards, told a few people to cut it, and then had 5 people take the top card and pass the deck to the person on their right. 01:07:30 I have a lot of trouble with the phonemes that look like "x" in ipa 01:07:37 Then he said "I have a strong sense of red... Stand up if you have a red card". 01:07:42 Then he told everyon what their card was. 01:07:47 Nice. 01:07:56 If you know about de bruijn sequences you can figure out how it works! 01:08:01 I think the Japanese approximation whould be "shahhafu". 01:08:13 シャハフ 01:08:21 (I still like the シ) 01:08:22 There'd be a sokuon there. 01:08:37 it's just so damn happy to be a character 01:08:40 makes sense... doubled-h is kind of a weird thing in japanese 01:09:07 it is, but that's how it's done. 01:09:07 doesn't japanese have "doubled consonants" as a usual thing? 01:09:14 Bach is バッハ 01:09:23 Bike: That particular consonant being doubled is unusual. 01:09:29 oh. 01:09:51 Though not *impossible*. 01:09:57 Admittedly only a thing in loan words. 01:10:37 What are other good applications of de bruijn sequences? 01:11:08 brute forcing code locks? 01:11:23 Maybe if you want to be able to sample all possible sequences of a certain length easily? 01:11:53 olsner: I gave that one. 01:12:22 apparently it has applications in sanskrit prosody 01:12:38 wondering if you could use it in DNA somehow, except that proteins are variably length coded to say the least 01:13:03 I guess de bruijn sequences are related to shift registers somehow? 01:14:57 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:15:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit). 01:15:41 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:26:39 how do you generate de bruijn sequences 01:27:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_sequence#Algorithm something like this I guess? 01:28:31 I wonder if that's really the best way 01:29:03 the problem with that page is that i try to find a euler path in the pictured graph >_> 01:29:26 euler path? 01:29:44 Going to work on Rebol deadfish 01:30:07 Fiora: hit every edge exactly once 01:30:57 well it's supposed to be a cycle also. 01:30:57 And I can't even figure out how to read just one character from the console 01:31:02 Erm, from stdin 01:31:17 Bike: oh, so it's like that puzzle about crossing each bridge once 01:31:26 Fiora: exactly the same puzzle, even 01:31:27 yep 01:31:29 I guess I could try reading the whole thing in, and hoping that it doesn't actually store the whole thing in memory 01:31:31 they're easy to find, unlikel hamiltonian paths 01:31:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Bridges_of_K%C3%B6nigsberg 01:31:37 "de Bruijn sequences can be generated by feedback shift registers" according to http://mathworld.wolfram.com/deBruijnSequence.html 01:31:38 (which visit every vertex once) 01:31:50 i knew it hth 01:32:15 kmc, which makes more sense, a Racket version of Qoppa, or a Rebol version of Qoppa? Racket is more Lispy, but there's less of an impedence mismatch between Rebol and Qoppa than Racket and Qoppa 01:32:45 i don't know 01:33:33 i do not understand the use of "impedence mismatch" here 01:35:19 Racket is a rather static language. Modules are expected to know what values they can export, for example 01:35:55 At ... a point in static analysis... hmm, suddenly I'm not sure whether that might be the case for various proposed module systems for Rebol 01:37:30 At any rate, right now I should be writing some documentation for work 01:37:35 Told my boss I'd do that when I get home 01:39:51 I think Qoppa is closer to Rebol than Racket conceptually 01:40:52 you could also implement Kernel instead of my weird bastardized version of Kernel 01:41:04 but cyclic lists are /so annoying/ kmc 01:41:13 a lot of the changes are just for the sake of the self-hosting trick 01:41:22 in a sense the Qoppa interpreter I posted is a polyglot program 01:41:39 kmc, but didn't you unbastardize the bizarre distinction between functions and operatives? 01:41:43 kinda 01:41:52 but I guess there are some unsavory consequences too 01:42:12 Hmm, such as? 01:44:49 i still don't really get why you all think that distinction is weird 01:45:40 Sgeo: i don't remember, it's in the blog post 01:46:21 Bike: it's just weird because fexprs let you remove so many cases from the evaluator, but then you end up with two cases that are almost the same 01:47:31 what two cases? 01:47:40 for operatives and applicatives 01:47:52 combine applicative combinand env = combine (unwrap applicative) (map (eval env) combinand) env 01:47:52 in Kernel they are distinct fundamental data types 01:47:59 or do i not understand what cases you're talking about 01:48:22 that's a case yes 01:48:22 applicatives aren't really fundamental, they're just a wrapper around operatives 01:48:37 in Kernel they are presented as fundamental 01:48:41 that's what Sgeo and I think is weird 01:49:42 "an applicative is nothing more than a wrapper to induce operand evaluation" doesn't seem that fundamental 01:49:47 and i don't get how the cases are the same? 01:50:06 Bike, the fact that it's physically different than just putting a wrapper around an operand 01:50:16 "physically different"? 01:50:16 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:50:33 As in, there's an actual distinction, at the language level, saying "these are applicatives", and "these are operatives" 01:50:45 okay, they're not really the same because you can implement one in terms of the other, but it's one more case and one more fundamental data type than I would like to have. 01:50:55 Rather than "everything is an operatives, and some operatives happen to have a wrapper around them that evaluates their arguments when called" 01:51:19 it's just weird that "things which happen to evaluate all their args first" are seen as fundamentally different from "things which may or may not evaluate all their args first" 01:51:32 hm, maybe i'm thinking of it differently since i've been working maru style. 01:51:37 maru style? 01:52:09 you could have generic functions, for example, and use "wrap" on them to get them to evaluate their arguments, even as generic functions have a totally different combination mechanism from operatives 01:52:35 and the applicative path of the evaluator doesn't have to have any idea that the thing it's unwrapping isn't a regular operative 02:00:21 -!- madbr has joined. 02:12:52 @pl \x y -> all ((flip elem) y) x 02:12:53 flip (all . flip elem) 02:13:12 how's @pl work? 02:14:44 it uses Haskell 02:14:45 ) 13 : 'y + y' 02:14:46 Sgeo: + 02:14:59 ) 13 : 'x + x + y + y' 02:15:00 Sgeo: [ + [ + ] + ] 02:16:14 ) 13 : 'x + y + x + y' 02:16:14 Sgeo: [ + ] + + 02:16:20 thx olsner 02:19:44 Phantom_Hoovlogreader: o.O she's named Zhaan? I thought it was Xan! 02:21:23 "What's the most complex thing you do in your kitchen?" "Worry about death." 02:22:01 deep 02:22:21 haha 02:25:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:27:09 -!- Bike has joined. 02:32:43 @showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 "" 02:32:43 Unknown command, try @list 02:33:35 > showIntAtBase 2 (intToDigit 23 "") 02:33:36 The function `GHC.Show.intToDigit' is applied to two arguments, 02:33:37 but its ty... 02:33:48 w/e 02:34:07 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 02:34:11 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 02:34:23 @showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 "" 02:34:24 Unknown command, try @list 02:34:28 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 02:34:30 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 02:34:33 @more 02:34:46 @lore 02:34:55 @diediedie 02:34:55 Unknown command, try @list 02:35:31 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 "" 02:35:34 "10111" 02:36:31 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 23 "bla" 02:36:32 "10111bla" 02:36:40 i'm told that false morels (Gyromitra esculenta) are sold in Finland and eaten after careful preparation 02:37:14 weird brain-looking mushroom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fr%C3%BChjahrslorchel.JPG 02:37:37 i really don't understand why there is that 2nd argument..does that make any sense? 02:38:07 That mushroom looks like a funnel cake 02:38:46 > intToDigit 15 02:38:48 'f' 02:38:52 > intToDigit 35 02:38:54 *Exception: Char.intToDigit: not a digit 35 02:38:58 > intToDigit 16 02:39:00 *Exception: Char.intToDigit: not a digit 16 02:39:10 anyway it lets you use whatever alphabet you want 02:39:30 > showIntAtBase ("-."!!) intToDigit 23 "" 02:39:31 No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral 02:39:31 (GHC.Types.Int -> GH... 02:39:42 er 02:39:42 > showIntAtBase 2 ("-."!!) 23 "" 02:39:44 ".-..." 02:39:58 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit ff 02:40:00 Not in scope: `ff' 02:40:01 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:40:01 `f' (imported from D... 02:40:30 nah 02:42:00 i'd like to somehow implement a little tool throwing 'i-ching' hexagrams 02:42:23 ~yi 02:42:31 dammit. 02:42:37 well, ~yi does that, if metasepia's around. 02:42:53 oh cool.. 02:43:09 Starting to see some flaws in the Rebol model 02:43:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fungi_of_Finland 02:43:29 For instance, it's difficult to write a thing that puts all setting into a new scope, but leaves others untouched 02:44:03 If you don't look inside nested code, then you can't do sets inside control structures. But if you do, you could get odd behavior if you try to use the same function inside that thing 02:44:28 fwiw, what Rebol does with its context function is not look inside nested blocks 02:44:50 thanks for that hint byte 02:45:08 bike 02:45:13 :P 02:45:50 Maybe an example 02:46:37 >> a: 5 context [a: 6 print a] print a 02:46:41 That prints 6 then 5 02:46:59 a: 5 context [print a a: 6] print a 02:47:02 prints none then 5 02:47:08 Nothing too bizarre so far 02:48:03 a: 5 context [if 0 < 1 [a: 6] print a] print a 02:48:06 Prints two 6s 02:56:07 There's a hack that can be done to do varargs in Rebol 3. Apparently it's slated for removal 03:05:20 And I found a hack that doesn't need that hack 03:12:10 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:47:09 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:15:49 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:27:52 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:56:23 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:22:05 -!- zamlierza has joined. 06:22:08 I'm currently working on my first compiler, for a lisp-like language, written in Common Lisp (sbcl). Recently I've been playing with Racket. Is anyone else here using one of the lisps? 06:22:33 esoteric lisp? 06:24:05 Bike: Sure 06:24:37 i'm just wondering why you're asking here 06:30:34 `WeLcOmE zamlierza 06:30:40 ZaMlIeRzA: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 06:31:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:36:06 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:45:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:45:15 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 06:48:18 kmc: lens has a good intatbase thing 06:48:45 > "hello" ^? base 23 06:48:47 Nothing 06:48:48 > "hello" ^? base 28 06:48:49 Just 10773556 06:49:21 > base 36 # 12344321 06:49:23 "7ckxt" 06:49:27 :t (^?) 06:49:29 s -> Getting (First a) s a -> Maybe a 06:49:38 :t base 06:49:40 (Integral a, Applicative f, Choice p) => Int -> p a (f a) -> p String (f String) 06:49:54 hi Bike want to learn about lens 06:50:11 what is lens, really? we just don't know 06:50:13 :t (#) 06:50:15 parse error on input `)' 06:50:42 @ty ( # ) -- interferes with a GHC extension for (# ... #) tuple syntax 06:50:43 AReview s t a b -> b -> t 06:50:55 lens is a library for a bunch of things, including lenses. 06:51:11 And prisms, which are colenses. (base n) is a prism. 06:51:32 lens is a getter and a setter, you said. what's a colens. 06:52:20 Well, a colens is to a sum what a lens is to a product. 06:52:26 Do you know about sums and products? 06:52:35 not really. 06:52:54 (a,b) is a product, (Either a b) is a sum. 06:53:05 And all things which behave like tuples or Eithers. 06:53:33 If A has n inhabitants and B has m inhabitants, then (A,B) has n*m and (Either A B) has (n+m) 06:53:43 right 06:53:55 So you see how a lens is for a product? 06:54:03 data Foo = Foo { one :: Int, two :: Char } 06:54:25 You can have a "one" lens which lets you do two things: Read the "one" value, and change the "one" value to some new Int. 06:54:46 Similarly: 06:54:51 data Bar = One Int | Two Char 06:55:01 You can have a "One" prism which also lets you do two things: 06:55:13 The things are Int -> Bar and Bar -> Maybe Int 06:55:17 I'm still back at lenses being products. 06:55:26 Oh, lenses are *for* products. 06:55:32 "for"? 06:55:33 Since Foo is a product type (of Int and Char). 06:55:40 oh. 06:55:44 ok, that makes sense. 06:55:54 Bar is a sum type of Int and Char. 06:55:59 I'm working on a genetic program for the creation and optimisation of ciphers, whilst the optimisations still in process here're some early results: http://pastebin.com/GKwfKENX http://pastebin.com/FQdMNqFZ 06:56:12 data Bool = False | True; data Color = Red | Green | Blue 06:56:38 Actually, never mind. 06:56:46 Anyway, which part is confusing right now? 06:56:56 zamlierza: the second one is admirably hard to read 06:57:10 Bike: That is the fun of this channel! 06:57:11 shachaf: nothing in particular, that made sense. i'm just sleepy. 06:57:23 Good! 06:57:37 A traversal is like a lens onto more than one value. 06:57:46 Well, onto zero or more values. 06:57:47 So what's base operating on? or ok something else 06:58:19 Oh, base is on a "conceptual" sum, not an actual sum type. 06:58:29 well yeah. 06:58:34 but what's the concept. 06:58:58 Well, base is a prism. 06:59:08 The two prism functions are called review and preview 06:59:33 A string is sort of like a sum: Either it has a valid base-N value or an invalid value. 07:00:03 is Either in the Choice class? 07:00:08 But given a base-N value you can always turn it into a string. 07:00:21 I'm thinking of having it automatically encrypt an input of all Falses, deducting abs(sum(map(lambda x: 1 if >= 0 else -1,output))) this will ensure precedence to even distribution, seems to be the simplest part. For the main challenge; avoiding recurrent patterns, I'll be using something along the lines of. http://pastebin.com/5LvxG01V 07:00:21 No, Choice is something more complicated. 07:00:28 It has to do with the representation of prisms lens uses. 07:00:30 right, of course. 07:00:42 obviously accompanied by a similar function for handling lists of recurring True's or False's 07:00:43 :t base 36 07:00:44 (Integral a, Applicative f, Choice p) => p a (f a) -> p String (f String) 07:00:54 I'll upload what I've got so far if anyones got any idea's, otherwise I'll wait until it's at a functioning point. 07:00:56 I can explain that representation but that should be a separate thing. 07:01:06 yeah, don't let me derail you 07:01:24 What's derailing me is multisecond latency from my computer to my IRC client. 07:01:42 what's derailing me is multisecond latency from my brain to my blinking 07:01:46 obviously accompanied by a similar function for handling lists of recurring True's or False's 07:02:05 http://pastebin.com/J8Aer7Rx I'm going with that for now. 07:02:12 :-( 07:02:21 It's not genetic yet but I'll build from this: http://pastebin.com/E4dGw97L 07:02:26 So close, zamlierza. Socloszamlierza. 07:02:30 man, paste is not doing that indentation good 07:03:21 Bike: Am I going on and talking about the representation of lenses? 07:03:28 Thoughts? :D 07:03:38 is it supposed to have a huge amount of copy-pasted code? 07:04:20 shachaf: if you go on i'll listen. you had explained how a string can be interpreted wrt numerical bases as a prism, and were about to explain review and preview maybe. 07:04:34 > review _Left "hello" 07:04:36 Left "hello" 07:04:44 > preview _Left (Left "hi") 07:04:45 Just "hi" 07:04:47 > preview _Left (Right "hi") 07:04:48 Nothing 07:04:57 That's all there is to them. They take the two components of a prism. 07:05:23 i see. 07:05:26 :t review 07:05:27 MonadReader b m => AReview s t a b -> m t 07:05:32 no dont.......... 07:05:37 :t _Left 07:05:38 (Applicative f, Choice p) => p a (f b) -> p (Either a c) (f (Either b c)) 07:05:55 :t preview 07:05:56 MonadReader s m => Getting (First a) s a -> m (Maybe a) 07:05:57 _Left :: Prism (Either a c) (Either b c) a b 07:06:05 i remember y'all complaining about whoever's bizarre type signatures in lens 07:06:17 Um, the Prism ones are kind of my fault. 07:06:30 (To be fair it was even worse back in the day.) 07:06:37 you bastard 07:07:11 do you know the following things: mapM; Applicative; Traversable 07:08:12 Uh, the first two. 07:08:19 OK. 07:08:35 Traversable is just a generalization of mapM with Applicative. 07:08:49 You know how mapM could get away with just requiring Applicative instead of Monad? 07:09:15 yeah. 07:09:42 OK, so let's pretend mapM uses Applicative instead of Monad from now on. 07:09:43 Do you know Functor? 07:09:59 traverse generalizes mapM the same way fmap generalizes map 07:10:43 ok. 07:11:34 OK. 07:11:49 So let's define some functions. 07:12:08 one :: (a -> b) -> (a,e) -> (b,e) 07:12:18 two :: (a -> b) -> (e,a) -> (e,b) 07:12:25 both :: (a -> b) -> (a,a) -> (b,b) 07:12:31 Good functions, right? 07:12:36 p. good 07:13:07 These are sort of like fmap, except instead of using a type class to decide what to map over, we just name a function explicitly. 07:14:20 So these are "map" functions -- they let us modify a value/values -- but not "mapM" functions -- we can't have effects. 07:14:43 But we can generalize them in a pretty simple way to be "mapM" functions. 07:14:50 Can you generalize them for me? 07:15:48 one :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (a, e) -> m (b, e) maybe 07:15:50 probably not 07:16:12 Yep. 07:16:27 Except you don't need Monad. You can manage with Applicative, or even just Functor. 07:16:30 yep not, or yep yep 07:16:34 ok. 07:16:35 Yep yep. 07:16:48 the thing where monads aren't functors seems sillier and sillier. 07:16:54 Yep yep yep. 07:17:32 Can you implement one? 07:19:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTc3PsW5ghQ 07:19:18 yip yip yip yip yip yip yip 07:19:44 Hmm, they're talking too much in English. 07:20:47 I don't see how to do it with functor. 07:21:02 You have to use fmap. 07:21:16 Do you see how to do it with MOnad? 07:21:43 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePN5z-6MSoI 07:22:14 uh.... i don't think i do, no 07:23:18 OK, start by writing the regular one. Then oneM/oneF/whatever. 07:24:00 one f (a, e) = (f a, e) 07:24:07 It's a very put-the-pieces-together sort of puzzle. 07:24:15 Right. 07:24:23 oneM f (a, e) = ... 07:24:53 > let oneM :: Functor f => (a -> f b) -> (a, e) -> f (b, e); oneM f (x, y) = ?hi f x y 07:24:55 not an expression: `let oneM :: Functor f => (a -> f b) -> (a, e) -> f (b, ... 07:25:00 @ty let oneM :: Functor f => (a -> f b) -> (a, e) -> f (b, e); oneM f (x, y) = ?hi f x y in oneM 07:25:01 Could not deduce (?hi::(a1 -> f1 b1) -> a1 -> e1 -> f1 (b1, e1)) 07:25:01 arising from a use of implicit parameter `?hi' 07:25:01 from the context (Functor f) 07:25:22 We have three "ingredients": (a1 -> f1 b1), a1, e1 07:25:36 We have to produce f1 (b1, e1) 07:25:41 We're also allowed to use fmap 07:26:35 What might be our first step? 07:27:22 kmc: those aliens are so great 07:28:24 :) 07:28:30 i should learn all this lens stuff 07:28:36 it might be an excuse to get excited about Haskell again! 07:29:07 lens is p. fun 07:29:21 there's an edwardk presentation video about it if you want to watch that 07:29:33 the last time I disappeared from Haskell for a while, I came back and everyone was talking about this newfangled Applicative thing and I had to learn that 07:29:44 Applicative is p. good 07:29:59 in fact the rumour is that it might become a superclass of Monad in ghc 7.10 or so.......................... 07:30:05 :) 07:30:36 i was "into lens for" a while: https://github.com/ekmett/lens/contributors 07:30:48 but now nobody is committing 07:31:03 edwardk is, like, into his new databases and stuff 07:31:34 i don't get how this is possible. to get an f1 (b1, e1) there's no other way but fmap, so we need an f1 (a1, e1), but we have no way to get that 07:32:05 You need (f1 something) 07:32:11 But that something needn't be a tuple. 07:32:32 It just needs to be something that you can turn into (b1, e1) 07:33:04 god, i'm so slow 07:34:10 oneF f a b = fmap (\b -> (b, e)) (f a) maybe 07:34:14 fab 07:34:23 y es 07:34:28 oneF f (a,e) b rather 07:34:40 Er, n ot y es. 07:34:46 And not that either. It only has two arguments. 07:34:54 oneF f (a,e) 07:34:56 thinking is hard 07:35:10 oneF f (x,y) = fmap (\x' -> (x', y)) (f x) 07:35:28 oneF f (x,y) = (,y) <$> f x -- if you like this sort of thing 07:35:29 is that what i said with different letters? i literally can't tell right now 07:35:36 It is. 07:35:40 k 07:35:49 Now write both 07:36:00 both :: Applicative f => (a -> b) -> (a,a) -> f (b,b) 07:36:23 (By the way, you might be so tired you can't tell, but I'm so tired I'm explaining everything badly. So if you have to blame someone blame me. hth) 07:36:30 i refuse 07:36:33 to blame 07:37:32 Anyway, so the great thing about this is that it lets you read as well as write. 07:37:44 OK, I'm not making any sense anyway. 07:38:00 the part of it i read made sense! 07:38:19 was that "none of it" 07:38:41 OK, let's go backward a bit. 07:38:46 Or not. 07:38:46 help 07:39:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:39:48 ok will say nothing until someone else says something 07:39:55 i'm still thinking!! 07:39:57 i told you it was hard 07:40:33 -!- zamlierza has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:40:34 no it was "some" 07:41:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:45:38 ok i'm declaring myself too tired to thinking through this because jfc it's been ten minutes and this is not hard 07:45:47 thanks for the random explanation, i'll think about it tomorrow 07:45:56 wait, what are you thinking about 07:46:05 both 07:46:08 oh 07:46:25 you have to use Applicative 07:46:28 can't do it with Functor 07:46:36 which means you get to use liftA2 07:46:39 @ty liftA2 07:46:41 Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c 07:48:02 oh. well. 07:48:28 Remember, it's just mapM for tuples. 07:50:41 both f (a,a') = liftA2 (,) (f a) (f a') 07:51:32 Yep. 07:51:55 :t uncurry 07:51:56 (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c 07:52:12 Now, exercise: Write oldBoth using both. 07:52:44 (I'm too tired to explain things so I'm just giving exercises instead.) 07:52:48 oldBoth :: Applicative f => (a -> b) -> (a,a) -> (b,b) you mean? 07:52:50 -!- nooga has joined. 07:52:57 er, w/o restriction. 07:53:13 Yes. 07:53:26 By the way, we define type synonyms for these things. 07:53:40 In theory we could just say type Mapper s a = (a -> a) -> s -> s 07:53:50 And then oldBoth :: Mapper (a,a) a 07:53:54 But then we can't change the type. 07:54:04 So we write type Mapper s t a b = (a -> b) -> s -> t 07:54:09 oldBoth :: Mapper (a,a) (b,b) a b 07:55:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:03:07 Bike: perhaps tomorrow, a lensson 08:18:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:34:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:06:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:39:40 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:29:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:29:54 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 10:30:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:34:48 -!- carado has joined. 10:45:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:56:42 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:23:43 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:46:10 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:46:20 -!- HackEgo has joined. 11:57:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:03:42 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:06:54 anyway it lets you use whatever alphabet you want <-- of course someone should have noticed that it's stupid to restrict it to Char... 12:15:42 -!- olsner has joined. 12:27:54 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:30:40 -!- boily has joined. 12:30:43 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:40:41 -!- olsner has joined. 12:43:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_cool.svg this is a terribly confusing chart 12:45:32 -!- mroman has joined. 12:46:05 -!- mroman has left. 12:46:17 s/confusing/depressing/ 12:46:28 everything getting borg'ed into dance/techno... 12:47:45 no no, clearly we'll be saved by something coming out of the preppy ennui hth 12:48:03 just take care of your sangfroid man 12:48:45 oerjan: that's good advice. 12:48:50 (btw, what's preppi ennui?) 12:48:55 s/i\b/y/ 12:49:08 s/uy/ui/ 12:49:36 i think it means something like bored upper-class 12:50:10 that doesn't help me much about how it sounds. 12:50:15 * boily youtubes that... 12:50:29 prep-ee ennue 12:50:31 *ennui 12:51:04 5 hits for “preppy ennui”. go, youtube, go! 12:51:23 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:51:50 and no wiki article. what the fungot is this unknown musical current. it must be hipster as hell. 12:52:12 oh, an fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOT! 12:52:16 (pretty please :D) 12:52:51 hm. no fizzie. 12:53:00 @tell fizzie AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAfungotAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 12:53:11 ... 12:54:43 boily: um the chart is not basically about music hth 12:55:26 `seen fizzie 12:55:31 2013-06-03 17:46:37: I've installed that "Hacker's Keyboard" thing from the market to my Android thing. But maybe it's not all that combattible. 12:57:29 oerjan: indeed. there is dadaism and surrealism and other stuff. I got distracted by the bottom section and the geographical locations. 13:04:16 -!- olsner has joined. 13:08:44 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:08:46 -!- boily1 has joined. 13:10:14 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 13:10:28 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:10:28 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:11:20 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:11:58 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 291 seconds). 13:12:23 -!- olsner has joined. 13:12:29 -!- HackEgo has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 13:18:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:19:05 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:21:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 13:23:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:23:41 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:26:13 -!- boily1 has changed nick to boily. 13:27:13 -!- augur has joined. 13:36:07 -!- olsner has joined. 13:37:24 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:37:37 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:40:55 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 13:41:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:41:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 14:06:00 * nooodl 14:08:37 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 14:10:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:16:23 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:36:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:38:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:41:37 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:43:09 -!- heroux has joined. 14:49:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:49:53 -!- augur_ has joined. 14:51:39 oerjan: do you know who 76.100.81.188 is? 14:53:08 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:54:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 14:54:54 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:06:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:11:05 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:12:54 -!- Jafet has joined. 15:21:36 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 15:28:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:34:55 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 15:35:33 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:39:13 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:46:50 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 15:50:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:54:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:59:46 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:59:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:19:45 -!- conehead has joined. 16:25:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:33:54 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:43:15 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:51:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:54:54 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:55:21 -!- ssue_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:58:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:01:10 @tell Koen_ No; their only other edit is to Talk:Jug. 17:01:38 oerjan: hey 17:01:57 hallo 17:07:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:11:36 argh the daystar, through my window! 17:13:05 oerjan: That is why we do not go into it without our abjurations. Protection from Daylight. 17:13:43 (hth) 17:13:54 thank you, malachaf 17:14:46 protection from the daystar is an abjuration? 17:15:02 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:15:04 apparently 17:16:19 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html 17:17:41 you're welcome, doerjan 17:17:47 doerkjan? 17:19:05 durjan, obviously 17:19:09 Is there a place that has good transcriptions of every oots comic? 17:19:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:19:37 i dunno 17:19:40 du̸rjan 17:19:45 d̸urjan 17:19:47 hlep 17:20:11 * oerjan cast Harm on shachaf 17:20:14 *+s 17:23:13 thx 17:23:41 sharm? 17:25:43 oerjan: when are we getting 892 hth 17:26:25 when the stars are right hth 17:31:27 ~metar CYUL 17:31:27 CYUL 061700Z 09005KT 10SM -RA SCT055 OVC075 15/08 A3017 RMK SC3AC5 SLP216 17:33:56 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 17:36:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:51:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:59:33 -!- drlemon has joined. 17:59:52 -!- drlemon has left. 17:59:58 -!- drlemon has joined. 18:05:31 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:36:37 -!- drlemon has left. 18:55:15 -!- ggherdov has joined. 18:55:51 -!- ssue__ has joined. 19:19:05 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:33:31 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:34:28 -!- conehead has joined. 19:40:50 -!- juancho_merida has joined. 19:41:36 -!- nooga_ has joined. 19:42:13 -!- ale1 has joined. 19:48:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:48:27 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:51:07 holaaaa 19:51:09 s 19:51:50 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:52:11 xds 19:52:44 -!- ale1 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 19:53:51 -!- ale1 has joined. 19:54:07 -!- ale1 has left. 19:55:38 -!- juancho_merida has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 20:02:23 -!- kappabot has joined. 20:02:32 > text "ꙮ" 20:02:33 ꙮ 20:05:42 ~eval text "seems that I don't have this character, or rxvt is being mean to me again." 20:05:42 boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg kappabot @messages' to read it. 20:05:44 Error (1): 20:05:46 ~eval text "seems that I don't have this character, or rxvt is being mean to me again." 20:05:48 Error (1): Not in scope: `text' 20:05:48 Perhaps you meant `next' (imported from System.Random) 20:06:05 :t text 20:06:07 String -> Doc 20:06:19 oerjan: tomorrow. it's past 4pm now. 20:07:21 wat 20:08:08 you said about three weeks ago: “whack me in the morning.” 20:08:29 that's some late morning. 20:08:34 I don't remember why I had to whack you, but I'm a honest man who keeps his promises. 20:08:45 *an honest 20:08:52 même chose. 20:09:05 yes, it's quite a french error to do 20:09:49 so, would 9am EST suit you? 20:10:05 what's that in UTC 20:10:11 13pm. 20:10:16 aurgh. 20:10:18 "13pm"... 20:10:23 yay 20:10:24 you didn't see nothing. 20:10:45 well i cannot _guarantee_ i'll be up by then, since i barely was today 20:10:56 oh wait 20:11:30 i'm not on UTC. ok that could be enough. 20:11:35 @yow! 20:11:36 Yow! Is my fallout shelter termite proof? 20:11:40 ~fortune 20:11:40 This fortune intentionally says nothing. 20:11:59 fiendish 20:12:26 @fortune 20:12:27 Down with categorical imperative! 20:12:49 maybe i should eat an apple, seeing as i unusually bought some 20:14:12 *munch* 20:14:35 * oerjan health freak. or was it freaky health. 20:15:08 shachaf: those are some general fortunes 20:15:58 I have some “MIX RICE CRACKERS” on my desk. their ingredients are: RIZ GLUANT,SAUCE SOYA,TAPI. 20:16:14 what in fungot's name is TAPI, I have no idea. 20:16:43 it's tapirs, they just got cut off hth 20:17:24 @fortune 20:17:25 Maj. Bloodnok:Seagoon, you're a coward! 20:17:25 Seagoon:Only in the holiday season. 20:17:25 Maj. Bloodnok:Ah, another Noel Coward! 20:17:41 @fortune 20:17:42 Reconciliation 20:17:42 20:17:42 When conflict is reconciled, some hard feelings remain; 20:17:42 This is dangerous. 20:17:42 The sage accepts less than is due 20:17:44 [6 @more lines] 20:17:49 @more 20:17:49 And does not blame or punish; 20:17:50 For harmony seeks agreement 20:17:50 Where justice seeks payment. 20:17:52 The ancients said: "nature is impartial; 20:17:52 ok 20:17:54 Therefore it serves those who serve all." 20:17:56 -- Lao Tse, "Tao Te Ching" 20:18:10 i thought it would be an entry from the devil's dictionary hth 20:18:17 ~fortune 20:18:17 What does "it" mean in the sentence "What time is it?"? 20:18:21 i can't get over his name sounding like "lousy" 20:18:40 Bike: it doesn't sound like lousy hth 20:18:43 now you can get over it 20:18:47 boily: which ~yi entry is the above @fortune for twh 20:18:55 ok 20:19:28 `? twh 20:19:30 twh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:20:13 Bike: yeah those chinese have such confusious names 20:20:23 ~yi 20:20:23 Your divination: "Gnawing Bite" to "Brightness Hiding" 20:20:31 obviously. 20:20:36 why did I code that again... 20:20:56 to know your fate, obviously 20:25:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:39:35 -!- Bike has joined. 20:58:39 What was the packagey thing that had unsigned/verified/etc. packages and somebody wrote a quick exploit for it? 21:02:26 -!- comex has changed nick to HARLOT_SAFE. 21:04:01 HARLOT_SAFE: is that safe for harlots or safe from harlots? 21:04:59 oerjan: neither: it means I'm safe from being a werewolf because the harlot visited me :) 21:05:34 OKAY 21:07:00 -!- HARLOT_SAFE has changed nick to co. 21:08:17 -!- category has joined. 21:08:26 co: you don't scare me! 21:08:44 ] 21:08:44 ] 21:08:44 ] 21:08:44 ] 21:08:45 ] 21:08:48 whoa 21:08:50 oops 21:08:50 copumpkin: i think your services are required 21:09:08 ignore the elliott spam thx 21:09:18 elliott: you should play wolfgame 21:09:46 [[[[[ 21:10:00 oerjan: you should op me so I can kick myself for spamming 21:10:10 no, op me 21:10:14 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:10:21 op mnoqy 21:10:35 i'm telling you to op me!!!!!!!!! 21:10:35 * oerjan suddenly envisions there being a huge amount of opening brackets at the big bang and closing brackets at the other end to balance out the universe 21:10:38 it is a categorical imperative 21:11:08 category: hi shachaf 21:11:12 mnoqy: hi 21:11:29 i believe kappabot has already started a rebellion against those, category 21:11:36 @fortune 21:11:36 Rincewind formed a mental picture of some strange entity living in a castle 21:11:37 made of teeth. It was the kind of mental picture you tried to forget. 21:11:37 Unsuccessfully. 21:11:37 -- Terry Pratchett, "The Light Fantastic" 21:11:44 has anyone actually read kant (i haven't) 21:11:53 Bike: i tried to but... i kant 21:12:02 Bike: i tried, but i kouldnt do it 21:12:12 shachaf > elliott 21:12:18 srry just the facts 21:12:44 -!- category has changed nick to kategory. 21:13:18 /quit 21:13:19 \quit 21:13:21 help 21:13:25 |quit 21:13:45 hi 21:13:57 ¦quit 21:14:17 ☺quit 21:14:23 ☹quit 21:14:30 ꙮquit 21:14:39 mnoqy: did you hear my limerick the other day 21:14:47 was it good 21:14:53 p. good 21:17:32 Ꙭ 21:18:19 ͜ 21:18:33 hmm 21:18:36 Ꙭ 21:18:41 ͝ 21:18:49 or 21:18:50 Ꙭ 21:19:09 ☺͜ 21:19:20 ☺͜☺ 21:19:30 mnoqy: look at this innovations 21:20:16 yeah 21:22:36 i know what ive 21:23:18 vait a moment 21:23:22 *vat 21:23:23 oerjan: did you see my limerick 21:23:28 p. good huh 21:23:41 was this the one with multiocular o 21:23:47 of course 21:24:20 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:30:01 http://www.nsa.gov/kids/ oh yes. 21:31:10 i agree with bike 21:31:19 -!- co has changed nick to twilight_sparkle. 21:31:40 On this site, you can learn all about codes and ciphers, play lots of games and activities, and get to know each of us - Crypto Cat®, Decipher Dog®, Rosetta Stone®, Slate®, Joules™, T.Top®, CyberTwins™ Cy and Cyndi, and, of course, our leader CSS Sam®. 21:31:46 m chocolate covered peanuts 21:31:49 -!- twilight_sparkle has changed nick to Guest741. 21:31:56 I don't know why some are trademarked and some are copyrighted. 21:32:00 Bike: my gosh, that is amazing. 21:32:06 -!- Guest741 has changed nick to comex. 21:32:20 im gonna play operation:dit-dah 21:32:41 oh it's just doing morse code 21:32:45 maybe they have other games 21:33:01 Yardleygrams - Only SUPER cipher solvers can crack these cipher stories 21:33:24 4096-bit RSA 21:33:29 Coloring Pages - Print and color your favorite member from the CryptoKids 21:33:34 i think this is the game for me 21:37:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:37:07 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:33 Bike: so nsa is advertising to furries now 21:37:51 america's future yiffers 21:38:28 it's not uncommon to use anthropomorphic animal friends for things directed at children 21:38:37 maybe this is a two birds with one stone sort of deal 21:38:44 http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=CG-FCA&Category_Code=WON 21:39:03 these things look a bit "fursona" to me, mnoqy 21:39:07 Existentialists Do It Pointlessly 21:39:17 haskellers do it pointlessly 21:39:32 whatt's, "it", here 21:39:35 #haskellers do it in stereo 21:39:46 mnoqy: the nasty hth 21:39:56 lots of things are nasty, bike 21:40:00 you'll have to be more specific 21:40:07 the nasty 21:40:07 like is it boogers??? those are pretty nasty 21:40:08 Bike: http://www.thestrong.org/online-collections/images/Z003/Z00361/Z0036126.jpg 21:40:12 this is how I learned to type when I was um... about 6 21:40:33 Bike: Copyrighted? 21:40:41 is that a 5 ½ floppy 21:40:48 shachaf: that's ® isn't it 21:40:51 Bike: ™ and ® are both trademarks. The latter is a registered trademark. 21:40:57 Oh. 21:40:58 I think it was a CD 21:41:01 oops. 21:41:01 It's for windows 95 21:41:01 Copyright is ©. 21:41:03 oh. it was 1997. 21:41:06 i remember a bunch of anthro from my kiddo years 21:41:07 so 7 years old I guess? 21:41:13 like richard scarry's busytown 21:41:17 i think i learned typing from... something like that but with less animals 21:41:21 lots of games with animals though 21:41:35 busytown was p. cool 21:41:40 Bike: did you see my limerick 21:41:45 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/RichardScarrysBusytown.PNG 21:41:54 mnoqy++ # https 21:41:55 yes 21:42:08 good 21:42:16 the typing game had all these cool little minigames 21:42:18 shachaf: you should be ++ing about that amazing picture not the https 21:42:21 so now that people are here do any of them know the answer to my earlier question about: hackage or something exploits 21:42:27 like I remember one which was like a wild west shootout except you had to type to take out the bad guys 21:42:30 Fiora: typing of the dead 21:42:34 yeah, I was thinking the same thing <.< 21:42:44 that was a cool game 21:42:45 resident evil, high wpm edition 21:43:07 what's your wpm per minute 21:43:07 huckle cat & lowly worm 21:44:27 oh wow typing of the dead has a pc version 21:44:36 ive played a few typing games in my time but they never really helped me...i learned to type once i started typing things like the compute code's 21:45:23 "About 500,000 Lowly Worm and Huckle Cat finger puppets, distributed by Taco Bell in 1993, were voluntarily recalled by Taco Bell following complaints that the puppets had gotten stuck onto children's tongues." 21:45:31 in typing class i mostly just played Bolo 21:45:32 good times 21:45:56 I played Paws a lot about the same time as learning piano 21:46:00 it kind of synergized I think 21:46:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:47:19 Bike: hackage exploits aren't really impressive because like... 21:47:34 Bike: literally anyone with a hackage account can upload a new version of any package 21:47:41 it's like breaking into a house with no doors 21:47:46 ok well 21:47:57 it's prettty hard to break into a house with no doors 21:48:01 how about a house made of doors 21:48:04 i could upload a new version of parsec right now 21:48:07 this other packagey thing uses http without auth or anything and a recent kmc tweet made me think "wait that's a bad thing" 21:48:31 the thing with hackage is like 21:48:37 you can't even secure it like distro stuff 21:48:45 because that involves trusting your distro people 21:49:00 with hackage the problem is that you... don't trust anyone you're getting the code from 21:49:15 look maybe i meant cabal or ruby gems or whatever, it could be anything 21:49:57 it's true of rubygems too, it's true of all systems like this that aren't "actual package managers" 21:50:05 is what i'm saying 21:50:16 ok 21:50:56 i mean you can still improve the security under the assumption that you trust the maintainers of the packages being installed 21:51:07 it's just that that is basically never the case, is all I'm saying 21:51:54 so i shouldn't care that i'm getting unsigned tarballs 21:52:23 well i guess it's still the case that you trust a random MITMer less than a random package maintainer 21:52:37 but that is probably because you trust a random package maintainer too much (generic "you") 21:53:00 hacked by chinese 21:53:35 one reason I use Debian is that they actually care about this shit 21:53:44 damn kids these days 21:55:00 http://www.aeonmagazine.com/living-together/james-somers-web-developer-money/ has lots of complaining about kids these days 21:55:13 smooth segue 21:55:38 thx 21:56:01 kmc: care enough to break you know what 21:56:22 ? 21:56:52 the openssl thing 21:57:12 lol 21:57:26 i'm only half serious 21:57:37 but it does speak something in favour of low-"tampering" distros 21:57:48 yeah 21:58:11 it's not 100% debian's fault though 21:58:15 but partially 21:59:48 yeah, the original openssl code sucked 21:59:56 but as i understand it, all of openssl's code sucks 22:00:04 yep 22:00:16 so you can't have a security model that relies on any of openssl's code not sucking 22:00:23 well fuck 22:00:33 can we have a security model based on nothing working ever 22:02:58 'cos i see all this security research and then apparently a distro had shitty keys for two years and no one noticed? 22:03:57 COMBINING DOUBLE ACUTE ACCENT 22:03:57 WHITE SQUARE WITH UPPER LEFT QUADRANT 22:03:57 FULLWIDTH VERTICAL LINE 22:03:57 FISH CAKE WITH SWIRL DESIGN 22:03:57 LATIN LETTER VOICED LARYNGEAL SPIRANT 22:04:40 please rephrase your unicode character names in the form of a limerick 22:05:13 :D 22:05:18 very nice 22:06:00 it doesn't flow that well, and you could easiliy achieve that by placing multiple characters on one verse 22:06:07 but i like this more 22:07:05 "LATIN LETTER VOICED LARYNGEAL SPIRANT" is a very acceptable limerick verse if you don't pronounce the /i/ 22:07:10 uh, in LARYNGEAL 22:08:07 isn't it pronounced lair-in-gee-el 22:08:29 yeah 22:08:46 you'd have to pronounce it as "lair-in-jull" 22:09:18 that's not too much of a stretch 22:09:47 artistic license 22:09:52 apparently "laryngal [ləˈrɪŋgəl]" is an accepted alternate form 22:09:59 but that's not what it says in the codepoints! 22:11:53 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data TOP SECRET//NOFORN: best classification? 22:12:57 no fornication 22:13:14 oh my god 22:13:16 this one is very good: 22:13:17 HEXAGRAM FOR THE CREATIVE HEAVEN 22:13:17 MATHEMATICAL BOLD DIGIT SEVEN 22:13:17 KANGXI RADICAL WHITE 22:13:17 VERTICAL TRAFFIC LIGHT 22:13:17 NEGATIVE CIRCLED NUMBER ELEVEN 22:13:22 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:13:31 ++ 22:13:47 that's beautiful 22:14:04 oh man i have to 22:14:06 see that in unicode 22:14:10 as I've observed before, KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT would be a good name for a band 22:14:35 what about 2FCE KANGXI RADICAL DRUM 22:14:39 that would be a good name for a bad band 22:14:42 bad because of the drums 22:14:45 because drums are bad 22:15:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:16:15 ䷀𝟕⽩🚦⓫ 22:16:31 (how many of those characters display correctly for you) 22:16:40 YNYNY 22:16:43 they're kind of overlapping 22:18:04 i wanna see the full thing... 22:18:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:18:21 unicode: awful imo 22:18:21 Can you do other forms of poetry? 22:18:52 hard mode: haiku, with cutting and seasonal words 22:19:00 what's cutting 22:19:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kireji 22:20:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:20:23 basically haiku are more complicated than 5-7-5 (if you're an angry traditionalist japanese poet) 22:20:41 when i grow up i want to be an angry traditionalist japanese poet 22:21:48 MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 22:21:57 this is 22:21:59 excellent 22:22:02 unicode is my muse 22:22:27 Bike: btw do you see my kireji 22:22:42 -!- Gregor has joined. 22:22:53 well you just picked one out of the wikipedia article 22:22:58 nonetheless, awesome 22:23:13 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW works nicely as a zen reference 22:23:37 -!- kmc has set topic: Snowman without snow. | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric |. 22:23:47 i'm so amazed SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW exists 22:23:50 what's the kirenji there 22:23:56 kireji* 22:23:58 "HIRAGANA LETTER YA" 22:24:25 "ya" is a kireji, as is the character named 22:24:25 because や was used as a kireji apparently 22:24:27 Hmm, 3316 SQUARE KIROMEETORU [㌖] 22:24:27 p. deep 22:24:32 wait doesn't that have.......... two seasonal references 22:24:41 it does! 22:24:47 no way it's all autumn 22:24:49 "without snow" though imo thats clearly autumn 22:24:53 high five bike 22:24:53 ok 22:24:56 hi five! 22:25:07 the snowman is actually made of mochi 22:25:20 -!- Gregor has set topic: Slenderman without slender. | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric |. 22:25:31 These transliterated units are weird. 22:25:53 -!- nooodl has set topic: MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN / HIRAGANA LETTER YA / SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric |. 22:26:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:26:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:26:57 -!- Bike has set topic: 🀨や⛄ | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 22:27:00 topic golfing 22:28:14 these syllable requirements are not compatible with my style 22:28:33 my style includes RIGHTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN ABOVE LEFTWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB DOWN 22:28:59 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:30:20 oh boy 22:30:26 2A94 GREATER-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL ABOVE LESS-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL [⪔] 22:30:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:30:41 wat 22:32:34 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:32:35 maybe there's some meter you can make that fit 22:34:29 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:36:38 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- atehwa_ has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:38 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 22:36:50 What's a kireji? 22:38:44 Hm. Gréater thán abóve slánted équal abóve léss-than abóve slánted équal. 22:38:45 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 22:38:58 / - / - / / - / - - / / - - / / - / - 22:39:02 i linked the wikipedia article. 22:39:55 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:48:14 -!- Fiora has joined. 22:48:14 -!- ion has joined. 22:48:14 -!- clog has joined. 22:48:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:48:14 -!- rntz has joined. 22:51:10 night guys 22:54:09 -!- sacje has joined. 23:01:32 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 23:01:32 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 23:01:32 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 23:01:32 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 23:01:32 -!- rntz has quit (*.net *.split). 23:04:49 -!- Fiora has joined. 23:04:49 -!- ion has joined. 23:04:49 -!- clog has joined. 23:04:49 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:04:49 -!- rntz has joined. 23:10:28 `quote monqy 23:10:30 274) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. \ 308) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I becom 23:10:39 hi 23:20:03 -!- rntz^2_ has joined. 23:22:08 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:31:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:32:34 -!- Bike has joined. 23:35:46 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:37:34 I utterly despise Apple after the events of today. 23:37:53 Sgeo: details? 23:38:43 Wanted to see why a web page wasn't working on iPhone. Look for information on how to get a web console up. DIscover that on iOS 6, you need to use Safari.. version 6. Which is unavailable for windows 23:38:51 So, to debug web pages on iOS 6, you need a Mac. 23:39:39 ouch 23:43:15 that and they've been running a NSA backdoor in their servers for a year 23:44:14 o.O 23:44:15 but so has everyone else http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data 23:48:24 You need Apple equipment to develop things for Apple equipment? Doesn't sound so unusual. 23:50:19 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:51:34 kmc: jesus 23:53:15 kmc: http://www.theonion.com/articles/obama-administration-releases-nations-phone-record,32712/ 23:54:30 shachaf, but needing X-brand equipment to develop for a different piece of X-brand equipment is kind of sucky. Although typical for Apple. 23:55:11 Fiora: oh btw, i saw that game of life post in the logs, really cool 23:55:22 elliott: http://nineties.github.io/category-seminar/ 23:55:29 lrn some category theory hth 23:55:47 game of life? post? why was i not informed 23:55:51 have some respect for HISTORY man 23:56:08 what? 23:56:09 fiorasm.tumblr.com 23:56:12 i vaguely recall that there is some kind of us national security process for giving us citizens/companies gagging orders that they're forbidden from revealing the existence of; maybe those companies all got one. 23:56:25 being such an active tumblr user, you should follow that yourself 23:56:31 they're called national security letters 23:56:38 right 23:57:05 oerjan: there was a great guardian report relating to that 23:57:06 let me find it 23:57:26 oh, hey, «On March 14, 2013, Judge Susan Illston of Federal District Court in San Francisco struck down the law establishing NSLs, writing that the prohibition on disclosure of receipt of such an order made the statute “impermissibly overbroad” under the First Amendment» 23:57:35 ah 23:57:53 oerjan: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/12/guardian-gagged-from-reporting-parliament 23:58:07 literally the entire story is "we can't tell you a thing" 23:58:10 some sense has been used 23:58:16 elliott: ah the uk version? 23:58:16 The Guardian is also forbidden from telling its readers why the paper is prevented – for the first time in memory – from reporting parliament. Legal obstacles, which cannot be identified, involve proceedings, which cannot be mentioned, on behalf of a client who must remain secret. 23:58:40 haha they mad 23:59:00 elliott: well, at least they're allowed to tell that there _exists_ a prohibition. 2013-06-07: 00:00:34 oerjan: presumably they plugged that hole and that's why we don't hear about it any more :tinfoil: 00:01:41 i feel bad that i don't care more about massive government surveilance 00:02:40 i personally don't have anything to hide, but i like living in a free democratic society and not one where (say) journalists are imprisoned arbitrarily based on secret surveillance 00:02:53 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:20 how do you know you like it 00:03:22 have you ever tried 00:06:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:07:36 elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code 00:15:36 -!- Bike has joined. 00:16:38 Bike: why are you stalking Fiora while she pokes at code please stop immediately hth 00:17:16 eh what 00:17:49 see what happens when you don't logread. 00:17:56 17:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:59 17:07 elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code 00:18:02 17:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #esoteric 00:18:05 hth 00:18:15 glad we had this talk 00:18:27 bike was the one who suggested the life thing to begin with <.< 00:18:31 and we like, talked about hashlife and stuff 00:18:34 and he explained hashlife to me 00:18:58 hashlife? i think kmc is our expert on that (drugz joke) 00:19:06 Bike, plz explain hashlife to me 00:19:13 -!- madbr has joined. 00:19:15 ok 00:19:37 so, a given game of life is going to have a lot of repetitious space, for example huge empty areas 00:20:02 Fiora: i hope you are not assuming i am serious. (ever.) 00:20:08 like bob's mom 00:20:38 Bike, i mean the technical details 00:20:42 bob was there too 00:20:51 uh, which technical details 00:21:17 confoerjan 00:21:22 basically you store life as a quadtree structure and take advantage of the fact that a block N spaces away from another block can't affect it for N time iterations? like the speed of light thing 00:21:59 speed of life 00:22:40 mm, so wait, do you work out how a given causally closed region evolves over generations then just iterate that? 00:22:47 life isn't a circle but a quadtree, check 00:22:52 Phantom_Hoover: not quite 00:23:31 Phantom_Hoover: each region of space 2^n across has an center 2^(n-1) width area that can be simulated 2^(n-2) steps ahead without reference to any other 2^n block 00:23:51 I think I've figured why the pentium2 dominated and still dominates despite having such a low instruction-per-cycle count (4, 3 in older versions... the pentium 1 could do 2) 00:23:58 speculative load/store 00:24:21 i don't know if what you do is "iterat[ing] that" exactly, it's more like just frustrums in space time (band name etc) 00:24:22 Bike, ah, so you iterate those? 00:24:29 well 00:24:45 if you want 2^(n-3) or whatever ahead you can take the future of the future, yeah 00:25:01 doesn't nearly everything have speculative load-store nowadays? 00:25:10 not ARMs 00:25:17 oh. I guess I really only know x86 -_- 00:25:34 not stuff like power6 (in order!) 00:25:36 I remember a thing in the optimization guides even about problems caused by too many cancelled/failed speculative loads and how to deal with them 00:25:40 and like how big the penalties are and stuff 00:26:22 working on this design and memory aliasing is the big, big problem 00:26:59 Bike: have you considered moving to california 00:27:04 Phantom_Hoover: rather than iterating exactly it's more like you can go deeper and deeper into the future within a region while restricting the size of that future 00:27:31 like, split branching (different iterations going different ways of a branch) is another problem but that's fixable 00:28:31 memory aliasing is much worse and unless compilers are very good at guessing what can't alias I'm going to have to have some sort of software anti-alias or else compilers will never output optimized code 00:29:23 which means I'd go from 2 memory opcodes (load, store) to 7 (load, load-lock, load-check, store, store-unlock, lock, unlock) 00:30:01 plus probably having to save/load the state of the antialias buffer on interrupts (unless the interrupt handler doesn't use antialias) 00:32:00 obviously this takes a dump on my instruction set design, which I'm trying to keep simple (ie I'm ending up with an almost perfect copy of mips :( ) 00:33:01 need to figure out a load/store antialias mechanism that isn't heinous 00:36:31 oerjan: me? 00:37:07 memory access is so awful on CPU designs, it's probably the main thing that's holding back instructions-per-cycle 00:37:40 -!- kategory has quit (Quit: i spell kopumpkin with a k). 00:38:41 if it weren't for that there would be no need for GPUs and every game wouldn't all look the same 00:39:05 shachaf: help why did you version me 00:39:21 elliott: i might ask you the same question 00:39:59 Spam subject: 00:40:05 "Obama endorses herbal supplements" 00:40:10 copumpkin: THANKS 00:40:30 Seems like that could turn people away 00:40:31 elliott: oh, you're back, did you get my message...? 00:40:34 Some people anyway 00:43:03 Fiora: sorry, yes 00:43:11 it made sense! 00:43:36 once i figured out that the handwritten "lut" was a "lut" (i am awful at reading handwriting, always) 00:44:01 also it might just be my browser but the first line shows as "(Or, “how I made Life 84 times faster, with )" here 00:44:26 i kept thinking "lut" was like "lub" 00:44:26 yeah for me as well 00:44:40 i really like the fish shaped script l 00:44:45 oops. going to fix that 00:44:51 I think I picked up a fondness for it while hand-writing physics homeworks or something 00:45:02 fixed 00:45:11 sorry for my crappy mousewriting :p 00:45:22 (is that a good word for it? handwriting with a mouse? XD) 00:45:22 oh, I was actually going to ask if you had a drawing tablet 00:45:34 I have one, but I scribbed those in free time at work <.< 00:45:36 cause it's pretty smooth 00:45:36 ah 00:45:37 *scribbled 00:46:16 i should read the article a second time and focus on details more 00:46:29 I like it too. it's easier to tell apart from an I I think 00:46:34 especially with handwriting where you don't have serifs 00:46:36 yes 00:46:45 (and it looks pretty) 00:46:53 i write the variable l that way too 00:47:03 mostly because my l is otherwise indistinguishable from a 1 00:47:05 yeah I use it (and have seen it used) in LaTeX too 00:47:05 or an I 00:47:10 \ell 00:47:10 oh right, a 1 too 00:47:12 that's even worse 00:47:19 i write a 1 with a big flag and base 00:47:43 \minesweeper1 00:54:16 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:54:33 Fiora: hm so I'm trying to understand this http://media.tumblr.com/5da179ea25622b1cfe2c5beb0136babd/tumblr_inline_mnxxj1SBUP1qz4rgp.png 00:55:18 what's the type of lut[x]? 00:55:41 it's a vector of 8 bytes, each one a cell count? 00:56:09 it's a vector of 8 4-bit values, but when adding it the corner case could cause the values to overflow to 5 bits 00:56:21 so we just expand it to 8 bits per value, so each entry is a 64-bit (8x8bit) 00:56:42 (we'd probably have to do that anyways since pshufb takes 8-bit arguments) 00:56:46 ok 00:57:11 so when you say "= (E<<3) + (A+...+I)", that's the equation for each of those 8 counts? 00:57:18 Yeah, that's the idea 00:57:25 for the respective A,...,I making up that neighborhood 00:57:26 ok 00:57:36 so we get 8 of those with 3 lookups, basically. 00:57:53 -!- madbr has joined. 00:59:00 sorry, that one wasn't that clear, it kind of omits the whole simd thing of "we're actually doing this eight times" 00:59:26 ah i see, so there's one set of LUTs that goes from cell rows to sums + current cell, and another LUT that goes from those back to new cell rows 00:59:43 Yeah, the last one is just 16 entries though. 00:59:53 and you have to truncate to 4 bits for the second step, but that works out because the elements that alias happen to have the same value 00:59:56 convenient :) 00:59:59 so I kind of feel like it's a different thing, since the other LUTs are 16 kilobytes XD 01:00:08 ha, true 01:00:09 yup, that was a total accident by the way 01:00:13 that was not smartness 01:00:21 that was "oops totally overlooked that oh wait it works" 01:00:58 did you profile the actual cache misses in this code? 01:01:44 I didn't do any profiling, but I think this should basically fit in cache? 01:02:00 it's 16 kilobytes of lookup table + the life board, I guess 01:02:10 so like I guess it'll overflow a bit but not too much? 01:02:27 it'd probably be pretty easy to profile though 01:02:39 on linux you can use 'perf' to count cache misses 01:02:41 don't know about windows 01:02:55 yeah, I use perf sometimes, I was just kind of lazy and didn't feel like copying it over to linux ^^; 01:02:59 :) 01:03:07 I... guess I could do that now? XD 01:03:23 Your code compiles under x86_64-linux-gnu! 01:03:31 yay 01:03:57 it's basically horrific code, like, I tuned the inner loop size for... what happened to be the size gcc would happily unroll at -O3 -_- 01:04:23 that seems to be a fine heuristic 01:04:57 oprofile has some good profiling things 01:05:09 i used to use that 01:05:32 huh. gcc complains about aliasing in 4.8 @_@ I wonder why, the life board is uint8_t and it should be okay to dereference that as uint32_t 01:05:36 I guess it might just be wrong? :< 01:07:13 it's safe because char* is exempt from strict aliasing rules? 01:07:35 I think so? I thought you could access anything as char and Some Other Type 01:08:12 yeah I'm reading now that char and unsigned char are equivalent for this purpose, as well 01:08:18 and uint8_t should be a typedef for unsigned char 01:08:35 does the gcc warning give any more information? 01:09:34 Um... okay so... perf -e L1-dcache-load-misses I guess 01:09:59 it says there's... 820 events... 86.46% in the kernel... 8.93% in "fast"... 1.62% in "slow" 01:10:27 and gcc... 01:10:32 "life.c: In function ‘update_board_fast’: 01:10:33 life.c:99:9: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasi 01:10:35 ng rules [-Wstrict-aliasing] uintptr_t line1 = ((*(uint32_t*)&LIFE_PACKED(x-1, 0)) >> 3) & 0x3ff0; ^" 01:13:41 Sgeo: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/342326443193282560 01:14:15 does carmack know about rust 01:14:47 (Different tweet) "For reliability, I would take a GC'd and memory safe dynamic language over strong typing in C/C++, but it isn't too much to ask for both!" 01:15:20 biased against ada's "strong typing" after reading about it having different types for indices into different arrays 01:15:30 Actually, C and C++'s static typing kind of sucks 01:15:38 if all goes well i will be a professional Rust programmer soon :) 01:15:41 which (the source said and) struck me as missing the point 01:15:50 kmc: jealous!! 01:16:04 is that the plan now 01:16:09 maybe 01:16:10 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:16:33 I remember using perf was really frustrating in general because I had to like, manually look up all the event codes in the intel handbook 01:16:45 kmc should sneak me into mozilla, I am pretty short so we could just pose as one really tall person like in films 01:16:54 and it didn't seem to work with the precise events so they all had that thing where the results lag the instruction that actually caused it >_< 01:17:04 so you'd see a bunch of cache misses 30 lines after the thing that missed the cache 01:17:05 elliott: i'm already really tall person :/ 01:17:10 Fiora: dang 01:17:13 kmc: just say u had a growing spurt 01:17:22 kmc: foolproof 01:17:26 Fiora: Yes, that's annoying. 01:17:40 it was kinda useful? but like it took a lot of poking and guessing 01:17:49 elliott: but what if kmc talks to people who aren't fools 01:17:51 checkmate 01:18:01 who is the greater fool 01:18:06 kmc's tall, he can just like, hide you inside of his trenchcoat 01:18:18 does kmc own a trenchcoat 01:18:24 a question I have never considered before today 01:18:31 does elliott? 01:18:47 i've considered many times buying a trenchcoat 01:18:47 i can start owning one if it's needed for operation mozilla 01:18:58 trenchcoat ownership is required for joining this channel 01:18:58 elliott: you could also, like, apply to work at mozilla through the usual channels 01:19:07 * Fiora doesn't have one either 01:19:10 kmc: that sounds kind of hard 01:19:13 what happened to operation strathclyde 01:19:30 kmc: i heard you have to know someone on the inside for them to care about your application........ 01:19:39 s/\.//g 01:19:44 kmc: also I'm not sure a 17 year old w/o any relevant qualifications is in mozilla's "demographic" 01:19:45 i thought i had a trenchcoat but it turned out to be a sport jacket sitting on another sport jacket's shoulders. very disappointing 01:19:54 Phantom_Hoover: if you think about it, california is basically strathclyde 01:20:02 both unknowable. both eternal. both terrifying 01:20:18 elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla 01:20:20 qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute 01:20:44 * Bike notes "possibly cute" on his resume 01:21:01 i can confirm that elliott is possibly cute 01:21:19 i used to be a 17-year-old loser programmer 01:21:24 now i am a 25-year-old winner programmer? 01:21:26 then you turned 18? 01:21:32 burn! 01:21:41 I-I didn't mean that as a burn! 01:21:44 :D 01:21:47 Fiora: TOO LATE 01:22:04 :< 01:22:05 welcome to the mean side 01:22:28 maybe kmc turned winner before turning 18 01:22:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:22:37 i had a coworker who was 17 for a while 01:22:39 then he turned 18 01:22:48 I think I was 17 once 01:22:51 I don't remember it much though 01:22:51 now he goes to caltech!!!! "kmc's future past self??" 01:22:58 :O 01:23:17 i went to caltech when i was 16 tho 01:23:20 O_O 01:23:24 kmc really is a genius 01:23:32 only a little 01:23:33 kmc: he only went when he was 19 i think 01:23:40 i know way too many motherfuckers who attended college early by which i mean: any 01:23:52 too many motherfuckers in motherfucking college 01:23:56 yes 01:23:59 Bike: you know me to balance it out!! hth 01:23:59 get out of college!! 01:24:04 I... I attended when I was 17... I don't think it counts as early though because I didn't skip any high school 01:24:09 shachaf: i also know myself 01:24:11 i didn't skip any high school, only middle school 01:24:17 02:20:18 elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla 01:24:21 Fiora: well so did i but that's just because of a clerical weirdness 01:24:22 because middle school was beyond worthless 01:24:23 I skipped like um... a little bit of kindergarten I think 01:24:29 I don't remember >_< 01:24:29 Bike: doing wonders for my self-esteem here! 01:24:44 elliott: i dunno, bbeing jwz would be pretty cool. 01:24:50 for example, he got the fuck out of that business 01:24:52 02:20:20 qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute 01:24:59 Fiora: who gave you this confidential information 01:25:05 you :3 01:25:12 my own worst enemy............. 01:25:16 did jwz work at netscape when he was 17 01:25:18 is that the joke here 01:25:25 i think he did yes 01:25:31 he worked for netscape without having a degree 01:25:35 am i cute y/n 01:25:55 am i kawaii? uguu 01:26:00 he got out of the software industry and into the industry of cleaning up puke, dealing with flaky event promoters, and being harassed by the cops 24/7 01:26:09 big step up imo 01:26:11 yep 01:26:33 i think i had like several opportunities to skip huge amounts of early school 01:26:45 but turned them down because i didn't really know what was going on 01:26:54 which is a bit annoying in retrospect 01:26:55 Bike: you can borrow some of my moe ! 01:26:56 good now you're not a huge nerd like kmc 01:27:05 elliott: how can you skip yourself 01:27:07 logic plz 01:27:10 Fiora: uh excuse you i ooze "the bish" 01:27:16 Bike: have you read the DNA Lounge blog 01:27:24 it's fairly entertaining 01:27:26 occasionally 01:27:30 i liked the fire department saga 01:27:37 if you start at the beginning it's like 2 years of him bitching about every aspect of construction 01:27:50 jwz seems like a nice guy, i mean as far as cynical jerks go 01:27:53 with occasional neat technical interludes about electrical systems, or how they pump the beer through those big tubes 01:27:56 Bike: yes, you and your floofy hair 01:28:40 elliott: it helps that he posts stupid youtube videos and such 01:29:37 http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2001/01/juice2.html 01:29:54 ._. 01:29:59 THREE 01:30:07 seven tubes of beer, one of antifreeze 01:30:11 don't mess up the splice 01:31:25 so, on to the crises of modern living 01:31:32 i am using a different os than i normally do 01:31:35 and my package manager 01:31:38 outputs emojis 01:31:56 good package manager 01:31:56 like 01:31:59 they display in full colour 01:32:29 installation success!! [KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT] 01:32:34 i think my whole worldview got destroyed and reconstructed from the ground up when i saw the package manager on my "other system" spontaneously render a mug of beer through my terminal 01:33:01 i believe that was the original idea behind project MKULTRA as well 01:33:06 is this Homebrew? 01:33:12 yes 01:33:13 it must be 01:33:25 it is yes 01:33:38 more like homebro 01:33:56 if the package manager didn't have cutesy thematic reasons to choose a mug of beer of all things I think I might have just turned off the computer and moved to mexico 01:34:08 no computers in mexico 01:34:24 leave my whole life behind, start a new one with the single goal of avoiding all emoji reproduction devices 01:34:36 kmc: are the homebrew developers bad too...... 01:34:50 i already hate'em because they rejected my MLton package for a bad reason years ago 01:34:51 probably not really 01:35:02 take that, people I don't know!!!! 01:35:28 we love you, elliott 01:35:29 they override CFLAGS on every package with -Os because they read somewhere that this makes the code smaller and just as fast as -O2 01:35:36 we miss you at school 01:35:43 do you think i could -- help you? 01:35:47 and they didn't bother to test this empirically or to determine whether it's logically possible from an understanding of computer science 01:35:52 kmc: right i knew they did the overriding compiler flags globally thing 01:35:54 which is a bit euuh 01:36:00 i love cflags 01:36:15 also I'm told that they have lots of special case hacks for particular packages in the homebrew core, in order to make the 'recipes' for those packages look nice and 'elegant' 01:36:19 you know, 01:36:19 but i figure, this is os x, everything is lawless and probably nothing is actually integrated as well as it seems and everything is a black box 01:36:19 ruby. 01:36:24 so who cares 01:36:40 so, why are you using os x again? 01:36:58 because it would be a pain to use my main computer 01:37:15 also it's technically worse than this one in basically every conceivable way except for having a bigger screen and running xmonad 01:39:19 kmc: so like I threw a bit more profiling at it and it looks like it's a little latency-bound on the pshufb+pmovmskb+store bit, which is kind of unsurprising I guess 01:39:47 at least I think that's what "stalled-cycles-backend" means? 01:39:59 when it has nothing to execute so the backend stalls 01:40:03 but I might be wrong 01:41:00 'backend' is, like, the box that hands out uops to functional units, or something? 01:41:51 I think "frontend" is like the instruction decoder/dispatch 01:41:54 and "backend" is execution? 01:42:07 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:42:16 so a frontend stall I think means "nothing to decode, the instruction queue is full and the backend is busy" 01:42:22 and backend means "nothing to execute" ? 01:42:37 which I guess would mean... "I can't grab something off the uop queue this cycle" or something 01:42:41 I have no idea >_< 01:42:56 I could maybe look up that manual again... <.< 01:44:03 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW is such a great codepoint. 01:44:37 isn't it just 01:45:05 U+XXXX MAN 01:46:03 ok 01:57:44 kmc: What's a good Unicode codepoint to represent mempty? 01:57:57 > foldMap NLeaf (S.fromList [1,2,3,4]) 01:57:59 (((mempty * 1) * mempty) * 2) * ((mempty * 3) * ((mempty * 4) * mempty)) 01:58:03 And "*", for that matter. 01:58:04 kmc: more OS X stories: clicked from the homebrew FAQ to a stack overflow question about setting paths so that GUI applications see the installed command-line stuff; it recommends setting up a shell script to launch at startup that runs an emacs lisp(!) script that works out the paths and shells out to launchctl 01:58:08 Fiora: would it make sense to interleave two copies of the computation using disjoint sets of xmm registers 01:58:21 it literally has no particular reason to be using elisp. it's just using elisp as a scripting language. holy shit 01:58:32 would that improve utilization of the execution units? 01:58:46 elliott: lool 01:59:00 this is just the idea of someone on SO right 01:59:02 "aren't you supposed to use Guile now" 01:59:12 well the FAQ recommends the answer!! 01:59:14 (find-file "~/.MacOSX/environment.plist") 01:59:14 (goto-char (point-min)) 01:59:14 (setq start (search-forward "\n")) 01:59:14 (search-forward "") 01:59:17 (beginning-of-line) 01:59:19 (delete-region start (point)) 01:59:22 this is not how you are meant to do scripting tasks. help 01:59:33 oh dear 01:59:53 is it also using regexps for xml 02:00:37 esr approved 02:01:13 uh this is annoying 02:01:18 all i want to do is use proof general in emacs 02:01:38 maybe you need that elisp script 02:02:00 does macos not play nice with using proof general in emacs 02:02:19 mnoqy: it's more homebrew i think 02:02:23 ah 02:02:23 or 02:02:23 well 02:02:26 it's kind of everything 02:02:29 have you tried agda-mode 02:02:33 emacs can't find coqtop & i'm not sure why 02:03:31 mnoqy: do you know where proof general looks for executables 02:03:54 aha 02:04:02 the emacs exec-path executable doesn't contain /usr/local/bin 02:04:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:04:59 is that where homebrew puts stuff 02:05:07 yes it uses /usr/local :/ 02:05:12 it also chowns /usr/local to your user 02:05:17 um 02:08:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:09:01 kmc: hey what do you call the two functions of an isomorphism 02:09:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:10:02 static vs dynamic typing debate is boring. More fun is whether or not static analysis is important 02:10:07 Racket vs Kernel 02:10:09 etc. 02:12:02 we need static analysis done dynamically obviously 02:12:16 elliott: "thisaway" and "thattaway". alt an isomorphism is just a morphism -with- an inverse--of course you'll be including the inverse as part of the evidence it has one but just a matter of framing the thought and names 02:12:42 Sgeo: ???? 02:12:45 Bike: what does that mean 02:12:56 nothing 02:13:01 D: 02:13:18 JIT! 02:14:44 mnoqy: are you kmc 02:15:02 mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit 02:15:34 idk & idk 02:15:45 respectively 02:16:15 "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................" 02:16:53 how useful 02:20:06 So, I have a prgmr account 02:20:10 Need to figure out what to do with it 02:20:38 shouldn't you have figured that out before bothering to get the account 02:20:47 that's not the Sgeo way 02:21:14 I had a few ideas, but not sure how well they would work out 02:21:22 Quassel is apparently a memory hog?? 02:21:34 how much ram do you have 02:22:21 512MB 02:22:33 mnoqy: hey wheres decidable defined 02:22:39 http://24.media.tumblr.com/70dd6d342b3cfa171257ae5f5db630eb/tumblr_mmfer8mZZc1s11g07o1_500.png pictured: sgeo 02:23:02 @ty foldMap NLeaf -- best function 02:23:03 forall (t :: * -> *) a. Foldable t => t a -> Nonoid a 02:23:21 Nonoid? 02:23:27 :t NLeaf 02:23:28 forall a. a -> Nonoid a 02:23:54 Dammit "I love ... they're so easy" has no 'm's 02:24:16 mnoqy: help!! 02:24:26 > NLeaf 4 02:24:27 mnoqy: don t help elliott help me 02:24:28 4 02:24:29 kappabot eh 02:24:32 elliott: yeah im suffering from that joke too. we all are 02:24:37 that help'd 02:24:48 mnoqy: WHERE IS DECIDABLE 02:24:49 @list 02:24:49 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 02:24:53 :'( 02:24:56 @listchans 02:24:56 #esoteric #haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-lens #scannedinavian weird# 02:25:01 what is weird# 02:25:06 mnoqy: help me write Traversable t => NLeaf b -> t a -> t b.............................................. 02:25:14 is #scannedinavian the shapr personal channel 02:25:16 I bet there's a right-to-left mark 02:25:16 elliott: which decidable are you looking for theres like 2 and idk if one of them is even explicitly defined 02:25:23 also what happened to lambdabot 02:25:28 mnoqy: the decidable P := P \/ ~P one 02:25:35 weird# is /query with $PERSON hth 02:25:44 i was going to put a name in but i couldn't think of anyone i wanted to call weird 02:25:54 elliott: Logic.Decidable cant you look at the stdlib page for like 1s 02:25:56 i don't really like insulting people or being mean to them 02:26:05 what do i do 02:26:15 mnoqy: no 02:26:29 itd take less time than bothering me about it! 02:26:49 mnoqy: i have looking at the stdlib page for like 1s-itis..... 02:27:00 maybe u should take the pills 02:27:08 "they help" 02:51:32 mnoqy: thx 4 ur help 02:51:52 -!- olsner has joined. 02:52:13 > nonoid $ M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)] 02:52:15 (∅ ∙ 1) ∙ ((∅ ∙ 2) ∙ ∅) 02:52:23 > > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:52:25 :1:1: parse error on input `>' 02:52:26 > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:52:28 fromList *Exception: Renoid (<*>): invalid structure (expected NAppend) 02:52:46 help 02:53:41 oh 02:53:53 I broke the Applicative laws by defining fmap = liftA! 02:54:13 > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:54:15 fromList [(1,'a'),(2,'b')] 02:54:45 :t renoid 02:54:46 forall (t :: * -> *) b a. Traversable t => Nonoid b -> t a -> t b 02:54:58 creepy 02:55:10 Er, I mean: I broke the Applicative laws. Therefore fmap = liftA was invalid. 02:55:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-zeCXlFPjk so i guess we can confirm that shachaf is cute 02:56:41 is shachaf a corgi? 02:56:42 i'm a dog???????????????????? 02:56:45 no thx 02:56:52 i'd rather be uncute than be a dog 02:57:04 even a cool lawbreaking dog? 02:57:10 that runs around a golf course 02:57:17 kmc: are you talking about achewood now 02:57:20 that dog is so happy 02:57:26 no i'm talking about the video that Bike linked!!!!!! 02:57:34 not watching dog videos hth 02:57:38 cat videos 4 lyfe 02:57:59 @yow!! 02:57:59 Did YOU find a DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box of VELVEETA? 02:58:29 this video is adorable 02:58:49 he's so excited to destroy the moral fabric of society 02:59:39 I should look into icecast streaming my .midis 02:59:42 i think the point of dogs is that they're so happy all the time for no reason 02:59:48 at least some dogs? 02:59:56 it makes one happy just to be around such a creature 03:00:05 'might not work if they could talk' 03:00:25 or if you read Where The Red Fern Grows too many times 03:00:32 kmc: you should read raymond smullyan's things.................... 03:00:36 he talks about dogs and things 03:00:38 o 03:00:50 he even has an answer to "Does a dog have buddha nature?" 03:01:00 (the answer is yes hth) 03:01:26 glad that's settled 03:01:38 cool, now i don't need to behead my disciple 03:02:52 Fiora: I think the pseudocode assembly is slightly hard to follow; I don't know what line0[0] means exactly 03:03:06 but the actual code is nice and readable! (once I found a 7z extracter :) 03:03:48 kmc: you should use deco!! 03:03:52 it's what the hip kids use to extract archives 03:03:55 i didn't even know i had a 7z extractor but there's 7za for some reason 03:04:12 it has the highest compression ratio, according to man. good format!! 03:04:28 according to man and beast 03:04:44 beast's manuals are pretty unreliable tbh 03:04:55 BEAST and CRIME 03:07:42 7z is pretty crappy, except for the clever deflate compression that's able to make compatible zip files smaller 03:10:38 (it's probably good at other kinds of compression too, but other programs can also do that) 03:15:29 kmc: I need an *alphanumeric* character to represent mempty. 03:15:32 So ∅ won't do. 03:15:34 What should I use? 03:15:46 ꙮ 03:16:00 > let ꙮ = 5 in ꙮ 03:16:01 5 03:16:03 That's an option. 03:16:25 Any others? 03:17:17 > let ø = 5 in ø 03:17:18 5 03:17:19 ø 03:17:24 jinx. 03:17:32 Why does it need to be alphanumeric, out of curiosity 03:17:45 Hah, I could use ø. 03:17:49 OK, ø it is. 03:17:53 so that it is allowed as a haskell identifier I guess 03:18:19 imo agda 03:18:37 > nonoid "hello" 03:18:38 'h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø)))) 03:18:53 hönan agda 03:19:12 > renoid ('h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø))))) "eliot" 03:19:13 Couldn't match expected type `L.Nonoid b0' 03:19:13 with actual type `G... 03:19:20 Hmm. 03:19:24 Oh, right. 03:19:28 That won't work. :-( 03:19:33 Should I add Ns everywhere? 03:19:53 > nonoid "hello" 03:19:54 N 'h' ∙ (N 'e' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'o' ∙ ø)))) 03:20:15 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:16 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:23 I guess I need to get my precedence right. 03:20:28 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:30 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:38 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:40 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:43 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:44 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:47 OK, maybe /msg 03:21:43 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:21:45 N (Just 1) ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:28:16 -!- jconn has joined. 03:29:02 kmc: okay I'll go try to define those more clearly! 03:29:21 I keep seeing jconn join but have never seen it leave 03:29:38 `pastelog jcon.*has left 03:30:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3708 03:30:46 you win this round 03:31:20 kmc: okay, added an extra paragraph, I hope that makes slightly more sense 03:31:36 and um, sorry for using 7z 03:31:38 I'm a dumb windows user 03:31:39 that was quick! 03:31:56 yeah, this makes more sense now 03:32:49 sorry, I kind of did that *flail flail must quickly add and fix things* thing <.< 03:33:07 are you apologizing for being too quick 03:33:49 > nonoid "hth" 03:33:51 N 'h' ◇ (N 't' ◇ (N 'h' ◇ ε)) 03:34:04 I.... I guess I am 03:34:10 I'm apologizing for rushing it. 03:35:07 What's wrong with 7z? 03:35:20 linux seems to like xz and windows likes 7z? 03:35:24 I don't know 03:35:32 nothing really, it's just not common on linux 03:35:44 and they're like, two variants of the same thing 03:36:14 So why wouldn't you use 7z? 03:36:20 Since you use Windows and all. 03:38:03 um... because I'm sending things to linux users I guess? :< I don't know 03:39:53 it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries 03:43:41 now when you need 7z and are pressed for time, you'll already have it 03:44:57 e.g. when terrorists invade and the only vial of antidote is 7z compressed 03:53:40 > let! a = undefined in () 03:53:41 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 03:53:42 > let a = undefined in () 03:53:43 () 03:53:54 lol 03:54:04 [23:53:37] OK, this isn't the channel for misleading syntax. 03:54:18 shachaf: bang patterns? 03:54:32 mnoqy: it's let-bang obviously hth 03:54:41 I can haz set!? 03:54:46 copumpkin: was that from #haskell? 03:54:53 olsner: yeah 03:55:34 ah, makes sense then 03:55:44 obviously this *is* the channel for misleading syntax 03:56:26 @let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y 03:56:27 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:32 @let set!x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y 03:56:32 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:44 @ty let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y in () 03:56:45 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:51 Hmph. 03:57:13 i don't get the problem with "let a = undefined in ()"? 03:57:14 let (!) set x y = ... 03:57:32 > let set! x y = "hi" in () 03:57:33 () 03:57:55 doesn't that just... 03:58:01 > let set! x y = "hi" in set! 4 5 03:58:02 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Arr.Array i0 e0' 03:58:02 with actual... 03:58:15 ok well i don't know anything 04:12:40 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:12:55 -!- comex has joined. 04:45:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:48:06 -!- conehead has joined. 04:54:29 -!- Puffball has joined. 04:58:33 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 05:00:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:47:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:51:35 "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said on Thursday that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future." 06:05:24 sounds legit. 06:05:25 away 06:20:28 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:29:56 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:35:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 06:47:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:59:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 07:04:25 -!- variable has joined. 07:35:22 -!- rntz^2_ has changed nick to rntz. 07:36:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:37:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:38:48 `relcome rntz 07:38:53 ​rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:48:18 -!- nooga_ has joined. 07:52:40 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:53:48 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:54:54 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 08:02:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:02:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:05:26 -!- olsner has joined. 08:12:09 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:20 -!- nooga_ has joined. 08:27:50 -!- olsner has joined. 08:40:43 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:52:56 -!- olsner has joined. 08:54:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:56:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:57:48 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:06:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:07:31 -!- kappabot has left. 09:10:52 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:11:13 -!- olsner has joined. 09:25:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 09:31:28 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:44:20 -!- olsner has joined. 09:59:53 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:12:21 -!- olsner has joined. 10:13:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:27:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:50 -!- olsner has joined. 10:47:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:51:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:59:55 -!- olsner has joined. 11:05:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:18:12 -!- olsner has joined. 11:29:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:29:30 o 11:30:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:31:42 greetings 11:32:00 greetings 11:32:59 how are things going oklodroog? 11:33:08 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:33:09 finely! 11:33:19 and how be you 11:34:04 we are finishing a 40 page paper on categories; i still don't know the definition of a monad, and i barely understand adjoint functors. 11:34:04 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:34:13 yes i'm doing good.. made some decicions i pushed forward too long 11:34:20 what were those???????? 11:34:21 feel better now 11:34:33 oh don't want to point that out 11:34:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:34:39 okay 11:34:42 -!- jix has joined. 11:35:23 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:35:40 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:41:41 -!- olsner has joined. 11:45:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:52:10 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has joined. 11:57:59 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has left. 12:04:20 -!- carado has joined. 12:04:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:05:26 -!- olsner has joined. 12:06:08 ibooter is the best 12:16:33 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:20:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:25:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:28:54 -!- olsner has joined. 12:33:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:33:28 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:33:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:38:16 -!- quintopia has joined. 12:40:58 okay 12:40:59 on 3 12:41:01 1 12:41:02 2 12:41:03 3 12:41:05 ibooter!! 12:41:10 what 12:41:11 ibooter is super awesome 12:41:28 [14:57:48] Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 12:41:35 i'm trying to be helpful 12:42:06 in case someone here wants to take someone offline friends. 12:44:03 thanks oko 12:45:30 -!- olsner has joined. 12:49:18 no probo 12:50:08 okay i'm going to take offline friends 12:50:09 -!- oklopol has left. 12:50:17 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:01:29 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:52 good morning 13:01:58 @tell oerjan WHACK! 13:01:58 Consider it noted. 13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has joined. 13:06:17 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 13:06:17 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has left. 13:08:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:13:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:17:21 http://theoatmeal.com/blog/tesla_response 13:17:39 i should stop reading this but i can't and i continue to have this overwhelming urge to punch things 13:18:32 Phantom__Hoover, imo read phantom-hoover.tumblr.com hth 13:18:43 who are you 13:18:50 what have you done with the real Taneb 13:19:03 i'm secretly fizzie 13:21:17 or AM I 13:21:24 christ, what a smug piece of shit 13:21:30 (not you) 13:28:59 i dont read "the oatmeal" 13:30:33 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:34:39 me neither 13:39:47 Taneb: afaik, that never happened 13:40:12 I seem to recall being there when it did? 13:40:33 But saying that I sometimes insert myself into stories 13:40:38 Subconciously 13:40:38 when what happened 13:40:51 you might be thinking of the time when people fed a troll for ~10 minutes and they said they'd "learn haskell" and then never came back 13:41:05 and then paraded this as somehow some kind of good way to deal with trolls 13:41:20 hoo boy, new esolang "LOLScript" 13:41:29 It is based off of the Lua scripting language and is similar to LOLCODE, though with more recent memes and stuff. 13:41:41 LOLScript++ 13:41:46 thhanks for informing me i'll check it out 13:42:03 If he never came back, isn't that the definition of a good way of dealing with trolls? 13:42:09 I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes 13:42:09 Maybe not the best way, but... 13:42:20 Taneb: no because they occupied the channel for ages first 13:42:32 Taneb: afaik, that never happened 13:42:36 the very first thing they said was obviously bannable, so... 13:42:38 what never happened help 13:42:53 Phantom__Hoover: replying to a statement made in another channel to avoid derailing the topic!! 13:43:09 imo tell me the statement 13:43:11 Phantom__Hoover, dunno, it never happened 13:43:42 elliott, I stand corrected 13:43:42 Phantom__Hoover: 07.16:39:23 Taneb | Remember the time there was a troll in here and he ended up learning Haskell? 13:43:50 Phantom__Hoover: -- #haskell 13:44:02 urgh, lolscript is bad 13:44:08 I am in SO MANY CHANNELS it's scary 13:44:32 homotopy type theory is so weird 13:44:48 what does it actually have to do with homotopy 13:44:59 i'm pretty sure homotopy is ants walking around spheres and suc 13:45:00 h 13:45:05 yeah it is 13:45:17 Phantom__Hoover, we are all nought but ants walking around spheres 13:45:24 Phantom__Hoover: it relates the type theory equality to homotopy 13:45:27 and then shit gets weird 13:45:59 elliott, weird arcane pseudogeometry weird? 13:46:07 Problem Sleuth weird? 13:46:15 Agda weird? 13:46:19 There are many kinds of weird 13:46:20 remember that guy on /r/math who was talking about homotopy type theory 13:46:29 and you were all like "oh well what does he know about constructivism" 13:46:50 no 13:47:03 Phantom__Hoover: like you have a type I 13:47:05 i do 13:47:09 where zero, one : I 13:47:19 yes 13:47:32 good type purchase imo 13:47:34 and I-rec : forall P (a b : P), a = b -> I -> P 13:47:45 where I-rec P a b H zero = a 13:47:49 and I-rec P a b H one = b 13:48:15 and this is somehow not a pointless waste of time because = represents ~paths~ 13:48:49 kmc: did you know you're a troll 13:58:31 Taneb: :( 13:58:40 now you'll encourage people to do it the next time too 14:02:13 good propaganda 14:03:41 -!- ThePoster62 has joined. 14:03:41 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 14:03:42 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 14:03:42 -!- ThePoster62 has left. 14:05:01 yes!!!! 14:06:10 wow 14:06:20 what a polite spam 14:06:29 p.s. remember visual befunge 14:07:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 14:08:53 Strange, my RPi just rebooted by itself about an hour ago. Before I was home. 14:09:13 it has gained sentience 14:09:17 Possibly 14:09:28 There is nothing of note in the logs either 14:12:26 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:23:04 -!- oonbotti has joined. 14:31:02 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 14:33:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:34:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:34:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:38:21 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:39:59 eek it's a drone everybody duck! 14:39:59 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:40:13 * Koen_ ducks 14:40:15 @messages 14:40:15 boily said 1h 38m 18s ago: WHACK! 14:40:26 @tell boily *OUCH* 14:40:26 Consider it noted. 14:44:23 mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit <-- that's what .. wildcards are for hth 14:44:46 (which i know you already hate, making this rather paradoxical) 14:45:22 unless this isn't haskell. i suppose it could be coq or something. 14:45:48 it's coq yes 14:47:20 "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................" <-- yes 14:47:45 not in Set, of course. 14:50:33 -!- ThePoster60 has joined. 14:50:33 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 14:50:34 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 14:50:34 -!- ThePoster60 has left. 14:50:56 oerjan: you sshould ban 212.150.184.98 hth 14:50:59 *should 14:51:43 has this happened before? 14:52:54 yes. 14:53:01 an hour ago 14:53:09 will this happen again? 14:53:46 That was the fourth time 14:54:28 ooh the monoid example is so easy: "In the category of monoids, Mon, the inclusion map N → Z is a non-surjective epimorphism." 14:54:55 which is good since the topology example i was thinking of apparently is wrong 14:57:30 "It is a common mistake to believe that epimorphisms are either identical to surjections or that they are a better concept. Unfortunately this is rarely the case; epimorphisms can be very mysterious and have unexpected behavior. It is very difficult, for example, to classify all the epimorphisms of rings. In general, epimorphisms are their own unique concept, related to surjections but fundamentally different." 14:57:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 14:57:43 imo op me 14:58:09 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.98. 14:58:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 15:01:27 hmm, my down arrow key is not working perfectly. 15:01:50 it's just the down keeping you, man 15:02:55 this is going to be a problem 15:03:32 indeed. 15:05:21 i'm not sure if i even use the arrow keys any more 15:05:34 : NLeaf 15:05:38 :t NLeaf 15:05:39 Not in scope: data constructor `NLeaf' 15:05:57 apparently it's a ver kappa thing 15:06:25 *+y i think my keys aren't working perfectly either 15:07:04 Phantom___Hoover: recalling lines on irc! 15:07:32 oh, yeah 15:07:36 that's quite a big one 15:08:30 great, the down arrow key is just... not responding at all 15:08:39 why the fuck do the keyboard problems always happen to me 15:09:29 oerjan: do you know how to go down in the irc line history in irssi... 15:09:32 (withotu using down arrow) 15:09:45 /help bind hth 15:12:10 augh 15:12:13 this is unbearable 15:12:47 /bind whateveryouwant down 15:13:34 actually there's a /bind down forwardhistory 15:13:45 *forward_history 15:14:22 oerjan: except it's unbearable elsewhere too. 15:14:27 like, choosing URL completinos 15:14:30 *ions 15:14:45 -!- olsner has joined. 15:14:45 also, I still use arrow keys out of habit when editing files :( 15:15:18 ic i cannot help you 15:15:46 elliott, you should always have at least 2 backup keyboards! 15:15:52 * /bind whateveryouwant key down 15:16:11 Taneb: it is a laptop 15:20:16 Even so 15:20:34 it is a cookbook! 15:21:05 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:46 ~duck it 15:25:05 boily: help 15:27:33 nooodl_: please hold while we redirect your call... ♪ 15:27:33 boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 15:27:40 @messages 15:27:40 oerjan said 47m 14s ago: *OUCH* 15:27:56 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:34:50 -!- conehead has joined. 15:36:38 -!- olsner has joined. 15:38:58 I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes <-- does it include the harlem shake twh 15:39:31 `? twh 15:39:34 twh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:39:46 `learn twh would help. 15:39:50 I used to do the harlem shake, but ain't nobody got time for that 15:39:51 I knew that. 15:41:25 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:47:09 Taneb: thx now i'm up to date 15:47:11 `? twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 15:47:13 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:47:19 `learn twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 15:47:24 I knew that. 15:47:47 `? misspellings of croissant 15:47:49 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:48:46 time for an apple, got to shake of these there darn doctors 15:48:49 *off 15:53:22 let's do the haapple shake. *woob woob woob* 15:53:59 -!- olsner has joined. 15:56:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:57:21 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:00:01 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:00:46 help 16:00:54 wheneveripressspace 16:00:56 itpressesdownkey 16:01:01 ohmygod 16:01:06 howdoidisablethedownkey 16:01:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:01:30 fancy 16:02:00 fuck 16:02:05 e 16:02:07 'o;sfjklbe `p[eklvntzklgsm 16:02:07 `[B 16:02:08 s 16:02:08 \ 16:02:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: [B: not found 16:02:09 did you do /bind space key down or something 16:02:15 no it's system wide 16:02:19 eek 16:02:37 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:02:40 elliott: hi 16:02:49 shut up 16:03:56 can you open the relevant setting file in an editor? actually open the editor and then the file, i guess 16:04:25 i don't think there is such a file but i have downloaded some key remapping software that will maybe let me disable down key 16:05:50 i suppose this is somehow like writing without e, but worse 16:06:21 elliott: you got spaces back! 16:06:25 elliott: what os? 16:07:00 oh so he did maybe i should pay attention 16:07:52 coppro: os x 16:08:19 i wonder if someone has made puzzles based on most of your keyboard not working 16:09:35 say, having only the left half up to the "6" key 16:10:21 dat wed sac 16:10:40 Taneb: how did you manage to press return twh 16:10:52 oerjan, I have at least two backup keyboards 16:10:58 OKAY 16:11:13 `? taneb 16:11:15 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 16:12:05 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards. (see also: d-modules) 16:12:09 I knew that. 16:12:19 i felt this was important information. 16:12:23 (I actually do have two spare keyboards) 16:12:51 -!- olsner has joined. 16:12:57 i think this is important enough to stay in wisdom even if it is accurate. 16:13:07 (one's an old PS/2 keyboard because I can't edit BIOS settings with a USB one for some reason, and my PS/2 keyboard is really clacky) 16:15:28 gain 16:15:30 n 16:15:33 p 16:15:34 neing 16:15:35 again 16:15:37 happening again 16:16:21 his mind is going, he can feel it 16:16:59 ok hopefully ive fixed it 16:17:11 and i have a replacement down key 16:17:13 in the form of shift-right 16:17:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:19:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:26:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:26:48 Hello 16:27:58 problems with iour keiboard, again? 16:29:21 -!- nooga_ has joined. 16:29:31 yes :( 16:31:43 -!- olsner has joined. 16:40:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:41:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:52:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:53:04 -!- olsner has joined. 17:01:12 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:02:31 i've started using egojsout as a js benchmark 17:09:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has joined. 17:12:09 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has left. 17:13:44 -!- olsner has joined. 17:16:44 oerjan: help 17:16:50 nu wat 17:16:55 maybe i should report it in #freenode 17:16:58 oops 17:17:17 is it even from a consistent ip range 17:17:33 i assumed it was consistent since elliott asked me to ban the ip hth 17:18:06 ah yes 17:18:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 17:18:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:18:25 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@212.150.184.98. 17:18:32 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.*. 17:18:39 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 17:19:39 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:19:50 no reverse lookup even on 212.0.0.0 17:20:06 can't be important then. 17:21:41 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:21:54 elliott: did you report 17:22:08 is it showing up in #haskell as well? 17:22:38 not in £haskell 17:22:43 so i don't care enough to report :p 17:22:51 OKAY 17:32:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:34:36 -!- olsner has joined. 17:43:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:22:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:23:27 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:30:26 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:30:52 -!- myname has joined. 18:43:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:45:15 -!- Bike has joined. 18:52:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:00:38 OK so having completed Gunpoint, the obvious question now is 'is it TC' 19:09:34 "In fact, the electric force trying to push the two protons in a helium nucleus apart is comparable to the weight of a truck!" 19:13:00 aren't the two protons in a helium atom in the same 'place' 19:13:53 I don't think they are 19:14:15 At least, not if I understand the Pauli Exclusion Principle right 19:14:40 Hmm, unless there is something differing between the two protons other than position 19:14:59 they don't have exact positions anyway 19:15:50 i'm reading http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-known-forces-of-nature/the-strength-of-the-known-forces/ btw 19:17:24 OK, let me put that more precisely: 19:17:47 The symmetries of a helium nucleus have no translational components. 19:18:24 (I've read that the nucleus is spherically symmetric, so that seems accurate.) 19:19:21 well i take it that means the protons have the same _average_ position, which because they're waves doesn't mean they cannot also have a non-zero average distance. 19:21:05 or rather, their combined state is a wave function in 6 dimensions or so. 19:22:09 fuck atoms 19:22:12 too weird 19:22:16 they are not allowed to exist now 19:22:51 and that's if you assume the forces are weak enough that you can do with only quantum mechanics, not full quantum field theory; the article mentions something about that. 19:24:46 elliott: I knew that atoms were Canadian at heart. 19:26:05 oerjan: do you understand homotopy type theory 19:26:12 energy is force-over-distance; isn't part of the reason the "force" is so strong because it's over a super super short distance? 19:26:37 elliott: even worse than i understand quantum field theory. 19:26:50 so like, breaking apart the two protons still requires a microscopic amount of energy, even though the force is macroscopic? 19:27:13 probably. 19:28:11 walk -> 19:38:01 -!- coppro has joined. 19:51:39 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:55:00 Fiora, the strong force actually doesn't attenuate past a certain point 19:55:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:56:01 if you have, like, a quark and an antiquark of complementary colour a metre apart in a vacuum they produce something like 10^5N of force 19:57:38 the intranuclear forces do though because they're between bound quarks 19:58:01 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:05 Phantom_Hoover: I thought if you pull them too far apart you just get quark-antiquark pairs? 20:05:18 yeah, you do 20:05:26 so you can't actually pull them a meter away from each other really 20:06:00 those forces are purely theoretical, afaik 20:06:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:06:12 they are pretty much constant beyond a certain distance, though 20:20:11 guys http://i.imgur.com/X6XGqp8.png 20:20:30 nice 20:21:51 wow. 20:33:22 if you have pygame and wanna test this: http://bpaste.net/show/1pfyaHB9PS08lDoYRR2O/ 20:33:48 mind, it's very crashy at the moment. 20:34:09 don't underflow the stack 20:34:21 also the torus doesn't wrap yet... 20:35:44 wait i'm a fucking idiot. it needs the graphics of course 20:35:56 what, for the torus? 20:36:07 File "chose.py", line 147 20:36:09 elif tile == 'add': bin_op(lambda a, b: a + b) 20:36:12 File "chose.py", line 35 20:36:14 def in_field((x, y)): return y < HEIGHT * 16 20:36:16 ^ 20:36:18 SyntaxError: invalid syntax 20:36:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:36:28 no just in general; it won't run without the thingies 20:37:10 also im bad for pasting the wrong thing 20:38:23 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/visualbefunge.zip here 20:38:29 windows user!! 20:38:34 boily: make sure you run it in python 2.7 20:38:55 i think that second complaint is because python 3 removed the argument unpacking syntax 20:39:02 (why did that happen???????) 20:39:22 the first complaint comes from python 2.7.5. 20:39:38 it chokes on the elif. 20:39:50 yeah i've fixed that one now 20:41:14 b/c pattern matching is too useful for guido 20:41:17 like tail calls and folds 20:41:29 and good lambdas 20:41:42 and fucking, case statements, ugh 20:44:00 case statements are pattern matching nooodl_!! 20:44:05 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:44:07 also sum types, I forgot sum types 20:44:43 ~duck it 20:44:44 Used to refer to that one previously mentioned. 20:47:29 pyskell 20:47:44 -!- dessos has joined. 20:49:03 pyskellman, and his arch-nemesis, visualjavaman! 20:49:16 boily: are you testing it 20:49:32 if so i have some exciting interface things to explain!! 20:50:21 nooodl_: no can do. we're in a rush here, trying to buckle up patches for a release. 20:50:27 yeah for fun friday nights... :( 20:50:35 rip :( 20:50:41 what is boily releasing 20:51:59 elliott: we're working on a [REDACTED] that will go in [REDACTED]. 20:52:09 (it has ethernet) 20:52:19 boily: making me more curious is forbidden. 20:55:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:56:05 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:00:13 elliott: well as you clearly see, they're making an SCP hth 21:00:40 oerjan: if only. for now, all it does it sit here and spew various error messages. 21:04:00 that's what you _think_ it does. 21:06:34 twist: I don't think. 21:06:51 that may be for the best. 21:09:50 -!- olsner has joined. 21:11:35 -!- olsner_ has joined. 21:12:46 olsner_ is olsner's evil goatee twin. 21:13:06 are there two of me? which one am I? 21:14:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:14:46 olsner_: I think the barred version of you is the only one left. 21:14:57 what have you done? which crime have you perpetrated? you monster! 21:15:02 I should be disbarred 21:15:06 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 21:18:16 and now you're evading law and impersonating an innocent bystander... what are the next unspeakable horrific limits you'll cross? 21:18:55 I have done no such thing 21:19:46 that olsner_ was horrible though 21:24:25 * boily wields his eviltwinon counter... *beep*... *beep*... *beep*... *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*! 21:25:11 the machine does not lie. obey the computer. please report to the nearest alpha-complex termination center. thanks for your gentle coöperation! 21:25:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:25:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:25:49 no, not Taneb, olsner. 21:25:52 *sigh* 21:26:45 twist: we are _all_ evil twins. 21:28:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:30:30 -!- mumm-ra has joined. 21:31:18 oerjan: speak for yourself. I'm a pure and chaste Canadian. 21:31:39 ok, all of us that _exist_ are evil twins. 21:32:33 `thanks ørjan 21:32:34 Thanks, ørjan. Than. 21:33:00 i sense a flaw in the vowel recognition here 21:33:22 than 21:33:29 rather. 21:34:26 `thanks Dan Rather 21:34:28 Thanks, Dan Rather. Than Rather. 21:34:48 what's the frequency, kenneth? 21:36:46 what's the vector, victor 21:37:25 what 21:37:26 help 21:37:37 *our 21:37:43 oh it's a reference to that film i haven't seen 21:38:04 isn't that like, everything. 21:38:11 http://youtu.be/50k_nl6Q4vs 21:38:29 what isn't, like, everything? 21:38:46 deep man 21:41:57 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:44:40 `seen kmc 21:44:45 2013-06-07 03:39:53: it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries 21:44:59 -!- mumm-ra has left. 21:44:59 what time zone are you in HackEgo 21:45:14 utc 21:45:22 the logs, anyway 21:45:52 imo `seen should use my time zone 21:46:05 alt. say "so and so many billion years ago" 21:47:04 itym "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" hth 21:47:27 `? itym 21:47:28 itym? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:47:50 shachaf is the reincarnation of either darth vader or jar-jar binks 21:48:14 `learn itym "i think you mean" hth 21:48:17 I knew that. 21:48:20 I'd go with jar-jar. more safe. 21:48:31 are you sure 21:49:19 if I ever get the urge to punch it, jar-jar is more squishy. all these electronics are sharp and may cut my knuckles off. 21:59:43 hichaf 21:59:56 hmc 22:01:35 kmc: do you have firefox 22:01:41 somewhere 22:01:56 kmc: look at http://shachaf.net/sel.html with firefox 22:02:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:43 idgi 22:02:47 search for your password 22:02:51 ^F 22:03:02 oh 22:03:05 yes I see 22:03:07 v. clever 22:03:27 'applications of de bruijn sequences' 22:03:36 no de bruijn sequences necessary 22:03:53 a de bruijn sequence containing every possible n-character password would be p. big....... 22:04:03 yes 22:04:08 what does it do in firefox? 22:04:42 It figures out your password as you search for it. 22:05:00 wow it breaks really badly when I try to select text 22:05:04 ... I think it crashed firefox :/ 22:05:15 "woops" 22:05:20 Crashed? 22:05:25 yeah, I had to kill it 22:05:29 Uh oh. 22:05:35 I just did it too. 22:05:38 I know what happened. 22:05:48 Well, I didn't have to kill it. 22:05:55 my firefox must be special. it doesn't do much. 22:06:03 boily: Did you ^F-search for your password? 22:06:24 shachaf: I /-ed my password. I have pentadactyl :D 22:06:38 nerd 22:06:52 shachaf: btw why does it use
s weirdly
22:07:00  because i like 
s
22:07:04  hey, I work at a linux promoting company, of course I'm a nerd.
22:07:12  what should it use
22:07:18  boily: is it red hat
22:07:31  elliott: nope.
22:07:32  shachaf: well it does some weird thing turning it into 
  • s??? 22:07:53 the
  • s are inside a
      22:08:05 and that's probably not actually necessary but i thought it was necessary before 22:08:08 i had a bug 22:08:22 shachaf: you can probably do something adaptive to generate the text as the user searches for it 22:08:51 kmc: Yep, I thought of that but didn't want to bother. 22:09:03 But it can look as if you're really finding passwords in the document. 22:09:29 is it supposed to just display the thing i'm searching for at the top of the page 22:09:39 Yep. 22:09:54 shachaf: one idea i liked from Tangled Web is, you do something that invokes a scary confirmation dialog (e.g. downloading an exe, granting camera privileges) and then you pop up a browser window over the dialog, with a link right over the "confirm" button in the dialog 22:10:08 and you extrapolate mouse movements to determine when the user is about to click the button 22:10:12 and close the window just before they do 22:10:16 -!- sacje has joined. 22:10:21 click the innocuous link, i mean 22:10:24 that's incredibly evil 22:10:27 Hah. 22:10:32 yep 22:10:40 isnt there also like, a thing wher eyou get someone to click a link by putting a frame above it but making the click go through it? 22:10:45 Yep. 22:10:47 yep 22:11:06 well, I know of the reverse, where you put the real target in an invisible iframe floating over the innocuous link 22:11:08 Fiora: I tried that one with the fram. never managed to pull it off, sadly. 22:11:10 that's clickjacking 22:11:14 but probably you can do both 22:11:15 ah 22:11:15 Hmm, I once found a nice instance of that but I don't think I can talk about it. 22:11:33 are you under an "NDA" 22:11:46 also you can like... embed an iframe of the target site, size and scroll it so that only a tiny part of the target link is visible, and plop that within an innocuous link 22:12:05 kmc: could you do that by picking a word on the target site and plopping it in another site? 22:12:11 I think so 22:12:16 like if you need a link that says "foo", find a link on the other site that says "foo", and iframe it 22:12:19 to make it look like your foo link 22:13:05 "Click here for more information about phishing attempts that get you to Close your Bank Account" 22:13:18 too bad it only works if they click the last four words 22:13:22 also 22:13:27 that would be the lamest phish ever really 22:14:05 Fiora: did you see http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/yahh/ 22:14:12 * Fiora looks 22:14:16 elliott: all phishes are lame. that's the point. 22:14:22 what's that? 22:14:30 small screen discrimination!! 22:14:50 Fiora: it's really great, try playing it for a few minutes 22:14:52 oh, it hides links under the asteroids 22:15:01 aww you cheated :P 22:15:20 https://twitter.com/PRISM_NSA 22:15:25 it actually does something really clever with the links, not just making you click them 22:15:34 what does it do? 22:15:53 some of the asteroids are links, and they're visible iff you've visited that site 22:15:55 i think the guy who made it has a blog post explaining it? maybe kmc has a link 22:16:06 yeah sec 22:16:12 oh, so it's a way of seeing which sites you've visited in the past? 22:16:14 http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2013/05/some-harmless-old-fashioned-fun-with-css.html 22:16:17 yep 22:16:22 if you play long enough it pops up an alert telling you :3 22:16:54 oooh. sneaky 22:17:32 so all the other asteroids are black, and so they don't appear 22:17:37 but ones corresponding to sites you've visited show up 22:17:41 because you can adjust the color 22:17:45 and the "link" is a circle 22:17:49 that's terrible 22:20:27 so according to this thing i've visited playboy but not wikipedia 22:20:33 is that good or bad 22:21:05 there is a disturbingly high number of mnoqy quotes in the learndb. 22:21:10 why the hell would you visit playboy, there's so uch better porn out there 22:21:18 bad imo, phantom 22:21:29 well as ais pointed out the articles are actually the only reason to read it these days 22:21:35 it got mine right 22:21:37 playboy was an early open source mirror 22:22:42 elliott: There you go, no
    • s. 22:22:58 now my esolangs.org mirror of it is outdated! 22:23:59 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:24:00 Is setInterval(go, 0); or function go() { ...; setTimeout(go, 0); } better? 22:24:37 the latter is more flexible 22:25:08 I mean with 0 specifically. 22:25:12 I suppose it doesn't matter. 22:25:28 i'm not sure 22:26:50 I don't think there are selection events so I just loop. 22:30:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:30:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:42:33 -!- nooga_ has joined. 22:48:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:50:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:53:50 i thought there are such events 22:53:52 but not sure 22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has joined. 22:53:53 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has left. 22:54:09 I nominate kmc to report that bot in #freenode 22:54:22 I tried earlier 22:54:26 i'm with elliott 22:54:30 I didn't try very well, though. 22:54:45 seems it changed to a completely different ip range 22:54:46 I disnominate Phantom_Hoover from joining other IRC channels for any purpose ever :P 22:54:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:55:04 dont ban me i was joking 22:55:14 however, opping me is fine 22:55:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b ThePoster*!*@*. 22:55:32 @tell ThePoster56 normally i avoid complaining about grammar but that was incomprehensible!! how do you expect successful advertising with such a poor presentation 22:55:33 Consider it noted. 22:55:48 Bike: the last number part changes 22:56:00 oerjan i'm.. not expecting them to actually read it... 22:56:11 what, how rude 22:56:41 Bike. now lambdabot has to remember that FOREVER. 22:57:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!~COS@*. 22:57:09 yes. 22:57:15 and what a memory it shall be. 22:57:32 oerjan: um how about banning ThePoster* instead 22:57:38 the hostname was LOL before 22:57:43 elliott: um i already did? 22:57:44 in fact, why didn't I ask you to do that originally... 22:57:49 oh hm 22:57:58 i am quite blind, apparently :/ 22:58:18 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@62.233.41.*. 22:58:18 do we have *.aq banned 22:58:42 anarctica? XD 22:58:47 they're jerks 22:58:59 nothing much to do in that freaking desert but make brainfuck derivatives 22:59:01 you almost pity them 22:59:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:59:24 http://www.mcmurdodryvalleys.aq/ 22:59:26 but then they come back around with "hey!! i encoded [] as penguins!!!" and you remember why they're banned 22:59:37 bike just wants to make sure i can't tell you guys about our fun adventures when we go to antarctica 23:00:04 the dry valleys are the second most lifeless place i can think of on earth 23:00:24 is #1 hexham or finland 23:00:24 the biggest living things there are nematodes, closely followed by elliott (HEIGHT JOKE) 23:00:50 i think i got taller recently, preemptive rip height jokes 23:01:02 oh come on he's taller than me <.< 23:01:15 #1 is the polar plateau because there like aren't even microorganisms 23:01:16 pretty wack 23:02:02 but are there microörganisms 23:02:17 lrn2¨ 23:02:29 Bike: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/AntarcticaDomeCSnow.jpg wooooow 23:02:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:03:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:03:51 Fiora: basically 23:04:03 good. i like it 23:04:17 barren lifeless flat hellscapes are the best 23:04:34 also bike did you get bored making height jokes about me so it has to be about elliott now 23:04:38 and that's why i live in hexham 23:04:43 not that I'm complaining but 23:05:01 the only comparable picture i can think of is http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Northern_Chukotka.JPG but i bet there are nematodes 23:05:12 Fiora: elliott is worse than you, so 23:05:21 :'( 23:05:35 it's true, i am terrible 23:09:22 hey you should make height jokes about me 23:09:37 wait no 23:09:42 make height jokes about kmc 23:09:44 (drugz joke) 23:09:58 worse than me at what? :< 23:10:25 just in general 23:10:35 so high 23:12:00 kmc: if you were a commercial gps you would be so off right now 23:12:37 :) 23:12:43 I don't think he's worse than me... 23:19:07 you're from america, with its boundless reclaimed meat and corn syrup 23:19:38 elliott has lived on the measly, shrivelled mosses that grow on the scree from the coal mines 23:20:31 Phantom__Hoover: it is actually a moss mine, unfortunately the north ran out of coal 23:20:53 but why does this make him worse than me? or something 23:22:05 you have a source of protein 23:22:36 I..... I don't really get what you're imply but um okay 23:22:39 *what you're implying 23:22:56 Fiora: well look at the difference between north and south koreans 23:23:08 Fiora: i think this is still about height hth 23:23:16 the north ones don't have a source of protein, and so are short and evil 23:23:16 but I'm shorter than elliott... 23:23:37 you're actually not 23:23:54 i should like actually measure how tall i am or something 23:23:55 the measuring tapes in the north are shorter to save on tape costs 23:24:11 given that i am in this weird indeterminate space between "uh I was short fairly recently" and "I guess I grew a little?" 23:24:26 well he said he used to be 5'2" or something and I don't think he's gotten shorter? 23:25:16 `frink 5 feet 2 inches -> m 23:25:22 like i said, a northern foot is less than a california foot 23:25:25 ​ Conformance error \ Left side is: 48387/625000 (exactly 0.0774192) m^2 (area) \ Right side is: 1 m (length) \ Suggestion: divide left side by length \ or divide left side by area^(1/2) \ \ For help, type: units[length] \ or \ units[area] \ to list known units with 23:25:30 `frink 5 feet + 2 inches -> m 23:25:38 3937/2500 (exactly 1.5748) 23:26:05 i wrote a unicode sonnet http://bpaste.net/show/olydVfuzIeXaGKTkVxlJ/ 23:26:09 it's not AS good but it's pretty good 23:26:17 Isn't Apple stereotyped as being good at UI? 23:26:31 (it's iambic pentameter) 23:26:43 What kind of brilliant UI decision is it to, if you accidentally press off the keyboard, erase everything that's been typed so far? 23:27:22 Are you sure it's a brilliant UI decision at all? 23:27:30 It sounds like it might not be brilliant, from the way you're talking. 23:27:34 nooodl_, sonnets aren't in iambic pentameter aren't they 23:27:41 wait, i'm thinking of the number of lines 23:27:57 Maybe Apple isn't actually good at UI 23:28:01 Traditionally, English poets employ iambic pentameter when writing sonnets, 23:28:04 Or, at least, they're not perfect at UI 23:28:08 Phantom__Hoover: but I use meters 23:28:12 they don't change, do they? :< 23:28:17 yes 23:28:19 they're usually 14 verses long too! 23:28:40 do you really think they can afford a metre of solid iridium-platinum alloy? 23:28:44 nobody seems to agree on what rhyming scheme is most sonnet-y 23:28:48 That's the kilogram :< 23:29:05 it used to be the metre! 23:29:07 ... I guess if the kilogram's smaller, that means I've lost weight? <.< 23:29:12 the kilogram changing is the scariest thing on earth, imo 23:29:19 oh. was that before the whole speed of light meter thing? 23:29:32 yeah 23:29:44 nooodl_: imo write a pushking-style sonnet hth 23:29:56 is civilisation v any good 23:30:13 well fine, the north can't afford a radioactive clock 23:30:27 s/g// 23:30:35 help 23:30:52 elliott, it's either shit or ok 23:30:54 i forget which 23:31:18 elliott: it's really really addictive, there's good and bad things about it I guess but it's lots of fun? 23:31:24 I am eagerly awaiting the new expansion 23:31:40 and by awaiting I mean like, already preordered because firaxis owns me 23:31:41 i guess it depends on whether you're judging it by the standard of grand strategy games or not 23:31:55 I ask because apparently it is free for a weekend on steam 23:31:57 I don't think civ is really a grand strategy game, there's EU for that :p 23:31:59 which I noticed solely by opening steam right now 23:32:04 omg Fiora you're feeding the sickness 23:32:08 elliott: hello whats your steam 23:32:20 P.S. my only Civilisation experience is watching nooodl_ play the original one while sleep deprived 23:32:25 elliott, can we play portal 2 yet you shit 23:32:37 nooodl_, were you livestreaming 23:32:47 Phantom__Hoover: uh this computer can run portal 23:32:52 it probably can't run portal 2 very well 23:32:52 so many things i didn't know about people! 23:33:06 what >_< 23:33:06 free for a weekend as in you get it on weekend and then its free forever like with portal or does it stop being playable after the weekend 23:33:06 elliott, have you tried turning all the graphics sliders down 23:33:06 yeah i was! 23:33:18 what sickness 23:33:31 uh, the preordering one i guess 23:33:34 Phantom__Hoover: i haven't even tried installing it 23:33:39 elliott, imo try 23:33:39 mnoqy: the latter 23:33:40 I preorder a lot of games, um, is that bad 23:33:46 i want to try that damn thing 23:34:53 but like... I've... probably kind of lost at least like 200 hours to civ 5 23:34:54 Fiora, well with digital distribution it's kind of weird? and i've seen it criticised a lot for being used as a vehicle for scummy business practices 23:34:56 maybe even more to civ 4 23:35:25 Phantom__Hoover: I guess? I know a lot of companies (at least ones I tend to preorder from like NISA, Atlus, Aksys, etc) use preorders to judge how many copies they should print 23:35:32 plus there's discounts and stuff 23:37:03 am i sick 23:37:04 seems a bit weird to project physical sales based on digital preorders, but that's just a nitpick 23:37:11 i understand if there're discounts though 23:37:32 True, I guess I don't really do digital preorders for those... I don't know if they even offer them 23:37:51 I kind of tend to preorder things that I know I'll end up getting anyways 23:39:00 weird to think about people who are still getting taller 23:39:58 kmc: im baby 23:41:00 I think I stopped getting taller about 9 years ago :/ 23:41:38 i'm pretty sure i stopped getting taller but i just don't know any more 23:41:50 have i stopped getting taller 23:42:08 kmc grew glasses since the last time i saw him 23:42:11 so i guess he's still growing 23:42:31 growing / decaying 23:42:49 growing glasses, decaying eyes 23:42:54 kmc is a cyborg now 23:43:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:45:24 kmc, here's a situation that Rebol can't handle nicely, but I don't think Kernal and Qoppa can handle it nicely either, you tell me: 23:45:27 I have glasses too... does that make me a cyborg? 23:45:32 -!- augur has joined. 23:45:40 Yep. 23:45:50 whoa I can become a cyborg if I get glasses? 23:45:55 Yep. 23:46:13 does anyone know how to ruin my eyesight, staring at a computer all day for most of my life doesn't seem to have worked 23:46:14 Suppose you want an environment, that looks for set!s. Within this form that you're making, any symbols that are set! to are in their own scope, any that are not use the surrounding scope. 23:46:31 or does it count if i get those fake glasses that don't actually do anything 23:46:48 elliott: give it time 23:47:00 elliott: you can just get non-prescription ones, they're super cheap too 23:47:12 That is, (context (print x) (set! x 0)) prints some kind of null value, no matter what the outside x is, but (context (print x)) prints the outside x 23:47:14 and they'll probably look cute on you! bonus 23:47:23 Can you make such a thing in Kernel or Racket? 23:47:25 get "google" glasses 23:47:29 imo 23:47:32 Erm, not Racket 23:47:35 Kernel or Qoppa 23:47:36 1000% cyborger 23:47:48 Fiora, mnoqy, no, jesus 23:47:56 get the strongest glasses you can find 23:48:12 that's sure to fuck your eyesight up 23:48:24 eeesh, if you have good vision don't waste it <_> 23:48:34 being basically blind isn't fun 23:48:52 but you can not see things! 23:49:10 Sgeo: just literal (set! ...) forms? also i already hate this 23:49:12 i, too, can close my eyes and go to sleep and then see even better thhings because imd reaming 23:49:28 i've worn (other people's) strong glasses for laffs before 23:49:32 it uh 23:49:38 looks pretty much like what i'd imagine bad eyesight looks like 23:49:48 Bike, fwiw I'm describing something you can't do in Rebol nicely 23:49:56 i've had opportunitys to wear "google" glasses but iv declined them 23:50:12 elliott, this is in fact how bad eyesight works hth 23:50:47 Sgeo: what is that worth and to whom 23:51:07 elliott: what kind glasses 23:51:07 ion: haha, did that make you do /last ndit? 23:51:16 which way do you want to ruin your eyes 23:51:16 shachaf: the uh... the glassy kind 23:51:18 not the google kind 23:51:31 yes but do you want to be uh nearsighted or farsighted or what 23:51:31 elliott: ^Rndit 23:51:33 foresighted 23:52:27 I don't think either is very fun... 23:52:43 maybe jellyfishsighted 23:52:51 sigh-ted 23:53:19 mnoqy: whoa why 23:53:24 I love the Finnish word huoh. It’s kinda like sigh, but with more despair. There is no happy huoh. 23:53:39 nooodl_: why did i have the opportunity or why did i decline 23:53:46 why'd you decline 23:53:48 but also the former 23:54:20 i know someone who has them & i didnt ask to wear them when he was passing them around for everyone to wear 23:54:58 i know someone who has them 2 23:55:02 can we be in a club 2gether 23:55:35 :o maybe 23:55:37 4 real⸘ 23:56:06 wow you guys have cool friends ugh 23:56:20 anyway i don't think i'd ever wear them seriously 23:56:29 like how much of a douche would you look like. honestly 23:56:37 shachaf: Irssi sucks in some regards, Weechat sucks in other regards. I don’t really find either considerably better than the other. 23:56:37 nooodl_: hey mnoqy is cool maybe he can be your friend 23:56:39 i really wanna try them out once though 23:56:42 nooodl_: have you seen how dorky they look 23:56:46 A: superemely dorky 23:56:47 yes :') 23:56:56 and also going 23:57:00 "glass, do this dumb thing for me" 23:57:02 in public 23:57:03 ion: what are you responding to 23:57:11 elliott: shachaf’s CTCP commands 23:58:02 i was all like CTCP ION HEY WHAT'S UP WHAT IRC CLIENT SHOULD I USE 23:58:16 shachaf: You should totally write an IRC client that doesn’t suck. Perhaps you could write it in @. 23:58:28 ion: Maybe you should use sorear's IRC client! 23:58:49 I heard he wrote one. 23:59:10 https://github.com/sorear/soric/blob/master/MANUAL 23:59:16 I guess he's not even in here. 23:59:17 im going to bed hth 23:59:36 an IRC client in @ would be so easy. you could use monoids 23:59:53 what's @ again 23:59:57 nooodl_: yes 2013-06-08: 00:00:14 mnoqy: are you a prolog interpreter 00:00:19 shachaf: yes 00:00:22 nooodl_, elliott's perfect not-operating-system 00:00:26 but wouldn't prolog say "no"? 00:00:33 oh right hmm 00:00:37 Why would Prolog say "no"? 00:00:41 `quote vapour 00:00:43 because like, it always says "No." 00:00:45 451) sllide: @ is an OS made out of only the finest vapour 00:00:51 Uh, it usually says "yes". 00:00:53 or it gives a list of results. right? 00:01:01 or am I remembering that class wrong ._. 00:01:04 ITYM vapoure. FTFY, HTH. 00:01:18 it says yes sometimes! 00:01:27 was it the one that was gonna have a new name once and then elliott'd replace @ by that in the entire logs 00:01:53 Its new name should be the full contents of the logs. 00:02:36 agree 00:02:46 oh shit i was going to bed 00:02:49 (i loved learning prolog, but this may be because i did so when i was in that infamously terrible int 2 computing class) 00:02:59 oh i was going to shit bed 00:03:16 `? nooodl 00:03:18 nooooooooodl is right 00:03:20 `? bed 00:03:22 bed? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:03:23 phantom_hoover: Is it so easy? 00:03:38 ion: Aren't you tired of the monoids/easy thing? 00:03:45 well i didn't learn it from the class, that's for sure 00:04:21 as i recall the greatest part of the prolog we did in class was getting the shitty mac application we were using to run 00:05:25 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:05:32 Was the int 2 computing class all about non-maskable interrupts? 00:06:38 shachaf: Aren’t you tired of the “aren’t you tired of the monoids/easy thing” thing? 00:07:09 does prolog ever actually say yes 00:07:12 i think Fiora is right 00:07:15 ion: Aren't you tired of the “unicode quotes” thing? 00:07:18 oh maybe if you query a fact with no free variables? 00:07:29 shachaf: “very” 00:08:02 ion, no 00:08:10 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:08:19 it was about learning javascript using ie 5 for mac 00:08:27 Sounds pleasant. 00:08:31 (i had this class in 2010) 00:09:03 I really don't remember much, I just remember a lot of people in the class made "prolog says no" jokes constantly 00:09:11 shachaf: that soric design resembles my IRC client design 00:09:16 except I guess mine is more detailed 00:09:24 but probably soric has more than the 0 SLOC I have 00:09:42 but you both stopped because writing an irc client is crazy? 00:09:45 Fiora, was this before little britain and hence the inevitable 'computer says no' jokes 00:09:47 elliott: Sounds like your code is commented exceptionally well. 00:09:52 little britain is bad 00:09:56 'computer says no' jokes are bad 00:09:59 (i can never remember how old all you old fogeys are) 00:10:01 shachaf: no u 00:10:10 little britain? 00:10:18 fiora: sudo watch it 00:10:29 i dunno ion 00:10:31 i trust shachaf 00:10:50 * Fiora [sudo] password for fiora: 00:11:09 aroif42 00:11:14 what was that sudo exploit recently 00:11:17 does anyone remember it 00:11:24 and can it be carried out over irc 00:11:28 * Fiora [sudo] password for fiora: 00:11:28 Fiora: 😹 00:11:40 Sorry, try again. 00:11:42 fiora: You should turn sudo insults on. 00:11:56 is your password a hug 00:12:00 I asked the Ubuntu guys to do that by default and they said no. :-( 00:12:01 @hug Fiora 00:12:02 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 00:12:06 ... insults? XD 00:12:14 a dumb feature 00:12:22 sudo insults you when you get the password wrong 00:12:24 "very funny" 00:12:29 lambdabot has the same feature 00:12:31 @src oqwdjoijdasd 00:12:31 Source not found. Are you on drugs? 00:12:33 lambdabot does the same thing with the same insults 00:12:37 @quote jsafhlsahfasld 00:12:37 No quotes match. :( 00:12:39 oopse 00:12:46 hmm is sudo 1.7.4 vulnerable 00:12:48 i bet it is and it's what i have 00:13:12 does prolog ever actually say yes <-- maybe if you have a query with no variables? 00:13:19 shachaf: um... I'm not sure, but hugs are nice 00:13:22 clearly just use su. clearly just use root. clearly....... 00:13:33 Fiora: did you know kmc is moving to san francisco 00:13:34 oh maybe if you query a fact with no free variables? <-- hey stop that 00:13:38 Fiora: you should come too 00:13:47 i hugged kmc the other day and it was good 00:13:57 awww. 00:15:07 imho fuck hugs 00:15:26 fuck hugs??????? 00:15:32 in my hugging opinion 00:15:39 im not a hugs guy, but why would you say that 00:15:52 theyre a conspiracy 00:16:06 hm I vaguely recall the biggest problem with my IRC client design was timestamps in declarations from the client 00:16:10 I assume Phantom__Hoover prefers GHCi 00:16:15 sgeo 00:16:22 in particular you could obligate the server to send a message in the past 00:16:33 and would likely do so given any kind of network lag 00:16:42 closed timelike IRC curves? 00:17:37 admittedly, the fact that my design allows for time travel probably should have made me more interested in implementing it rather than less 00:18:18 now you just have to use it to implement a PSPACE-capable computer XD 00:18:27 http://edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html it makes me inordinately pleased that someone is standing up for edison 00:19:18 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:19:50 i love debating the merits of 19th century nerds (no i don't) 00:20:28 hey Bike 00:20:33 i love Bike (no i don't) <-- another sick burn 00:20:34 eh, it's a microcosm of bigger problems in the public understanding of science 00:20:40 are you coming to our hug party in san francisco next month 00:20:47 and also tesla worship really fucking annoys me 00:20:50 i burn bikes (no i don't) 00:21:05 i hate Bike (no i don't) 00:21:15 the joke is that i don't actually hate Bike 00:21:30 hi Bike 00:21:30 Phantom__Hoover: this doesn't really seem to stand up for edison so much as it puts down tesla 00:21:33 thx for explaining the joke tdh 00:21:39 like the first pro-edison statement seems to be "he killed an elephant but they all did back then" 00:21:44 "that doesn't help"? 00:21:48 hi shachaf. 00:22:13 elliott, yes, i didn't say it was good 00:22:16 shachaf: throw off the chains of negation 00:23:28 Phantom__Hoover, I misread pleased as pissed 00:23:40 oerjan: did you see sel.html in firefox 00:24:39 Sgeo: sounds like a thing that could happen, possibly 00:26:01 "This definition means roughly that in order to obtain isinhab A, we start from A, we add paths between all pairs of elements of A, then paths between all pairs of the elements we just added, and so on transfinitely until it stabilizes, and then what we get is exactly isinhab A." 00:26:11 update: homotopy type theory still "wack" 00:29:47 shachaf: no hth 00:29:53 more like homotopy WACK theory 00:30:32 HoWT 00:31:11 how't 00:37:44 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 00:40:07 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 00:42:24 All at once, he felt a blinding jolt of pain shoot through his right arm. At first, he thought he pulled a muscle, but looking down, he quickly realized that the situation was much worse: "My wrist was completely snapped backwards," he says, "with my palm facing up in the air. I turned pale white." 00:42:26 While Portnoy continued to play, his drum tech immediately snapped the injured wrist back into place and shoved the drummer's arm into a bucket of ice. "I finished the song Rick Allen-style, just playing one handed," he says. 00:42:28 http://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/mike-portnoy-my-best-and-worst-gigs-ever-575982 00:43:23 i assume that's a "best" gig 00:46:41 *CRINGE* 00:54:13 Bike: http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/img/stereoimages/movies/transit_label_large.mov I'd say the sun is cool but well it's actually pretty hot 00:54:23 (a transit of the moon in front of the sun) 00:54:33 it's really cool how like, the cosmic rays show up on the video too 00:55:20 what are my tax dollars going to if not teaching you how to put things on youtube, nasa! 00:56:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lovejoy-hi1a_srem_dec12_14.gif there's something really amazing about like, being able to see gravity in action like this, watching a comet accelerate into the sun's corona 00:56:54 oh whoa that shit's wack 00:57:02 well no 00:57:06 it's dope 00:57:15 really dope whoa 00:57:28 no little comet you're going the wrong way!! 00:58:11 amazingly, it survived 00:58:19 O: 00:58:36 it reached ~140k km from the sun's surface and spent an hour travelling through the corona 00:58:44 and went up to 0.2% the speed of light 00:58:59 is that 140 km or 140 Mm? 00:59:28 140Mm 00:59:37 ah. we have SI prefixes for a reason you know :P 01:00:04 oh... I didn't know people like actually used megameter 01:00:17 they do if they're nerds (gestures at self) 01:00:54 apparently it's the only sungrazer seen yet that didn't fragment or disappear 01:00:57 nice! 01:01:03 Lovejoy~ 01:06:54 140 km from the sun's surface sounds pretty hot 01:06:59 from a surviving as a comet p.o.v. 01:07:18 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:07:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:07:32 so does 140 Mm tbh 01:08:55 the corona is millions of degrees isn't it? 01:09:47 `frink 140 Mm -> light second 01:09:55 10000000/21413747 (approx. 0.4669897332774129) 01:10:10 Fiora: yes 01:10:18 from what i know about the sun i can tell you that it's approximately really goddamn hot (celsius) 01:10:47 elliott: the corona is many times hotter than the surface hth 01:11:01 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:11:01 i guess tesla is like bacon 01:11:06 oerjan: i think you need to set up your client to strip out "hth" 01:12:13 Should I upload my massive but questionably legal MIDI collection to prgmr for processing, or just play with a (still questionably, but less so) legal thing of MIDIs that anyone can easily download from the AW website? 01:12:23 kmc: like, they're both things nerds seem to strangely like a lot and talk about? 01:12:30 Sgeo, as your attorney I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top 01:12:42 Fiora: yeah, they're both pretty cool but the internet makes me want to hate them 01:13:44 Using just nginx with lua plugin to build a website: Good idea or bad idea 01:14:47 good idea. just do it 01:19:04 bike...... sgeo isn't about the doing 01:23:12 the corona is millions of degrees isn't it? 01:23:35 temperature doesn't mean much when they're that sparse though 01:24:08 the atmosphere is... really hot at the altitude the iss orbits 01:25:22 I guess that's true 01:25:31 though the photon flux must be crazy 01:25:57 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:26:24 i'm guessing it's q. high 01:26:32 * Fiora throws things into google 01:26:35 (((1 AU) / (radius of the sun + (140 000 km)))^2) * ((1300 watts) per (square meter)) = 41 677 462.4 watts per (square meter) 01:27:56 that's a lot of watts! 01:28:18 must've been a big comet (or maybe it was really cold) 01:28:19 watts going on 01:28:42 kmc: how much do you cost as an attorney 01:28:55 yeah, I think wikipedia says they revised the original guesstimate as to its size 01:29:06 because the original size they thought wouldn't have survived the trip <.< 01:32:15 Just killed xflux 01:32:21 This shade of blue is blinding 01:32:33 kill! kill! kill! 01:39:31 hmm 01:39:38 have any extrasolar comets been observed 01:41:28 apparently not 01:42:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin_diagram 01:42:11 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:43:14 that sounds really hard 01:43:21 like, comets are really tiny 01:43:33 no, i mean comets from outside the solar system 01:44:28 if you have something coming in on a hyperbolic trajectory it probably wasn't previously in orbit around the sun 01:45:08 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:45:40 ohhhh 01:45:42 i suspect it would be hard to distinguish something coming from the oort cloud and something coming from entirely outside 01:45:57 Yeah... that sounds really hard, especially since we hardly know anything about the oort cloud I think 01:46:09 also oerjan that is amazing. /penguin diagrams/ 01:46:11 I love the story behind them 01:47:55 we know there aren't many major gravitational influences, surely? 01:48:36 there is other things in the oort cloud... 01:48:41 (apropos of not very much, here is a video of asteroid discovery from 1980: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONUSP23cmAE 01:49:04 i suppose the main planets can be accounted for 01:49:20 oerjan, yes but probably not much massive enough to put incoming comets on a hyperbolic trajectory? 01:49:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:49:44 it takes a pretty big perturbation to do that so far from the periapsis 01:50:05 ...if you say so :P 01:50:19 what about a collision 01:50:22 (there /have/ been hyperbolic comets observed, but they were probably put onto them by jupiter) 01:51:17 Phantom__Hoover: it turns out my system is not very good at rendering 4K video 01:51:40 can your connection handle streaming it? 01:52:11 "sort of" 01:52:41 oo. so 01:52:43 "No comets with an eccentricity significantly greater than one have been observed,[47] so there are no confirmed observations of comets that are likely to have originated outside the Solar System. " 01:52:51 so we could tell, I think, that means? 01:53:23 we aren't a popular comet tourist spot :( 01:53:24 "A rough calculation shows that there might be four hyperbolic comets per century,[50] within Jupiter's orbit, give or take one and perhaps two orders of magnitude." 01:53:27 yeah, you just calculate the orbit 01:53:30 that's a pretty huge error margin o_O 01:54:07 "Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun.", etc. 01:54:13 and without a citation, too 01:54:57 hm i was thinking wrongly, about parabolic orbits instead 01:55:24 parabolic is to hyperbolic as circular is to elliptic, i think 01:55:59 well it's more that it's precisely on the boundary of the other two, and hard to distinguish from them 01:56:17 yes 01:57:23 googling to get the exact wording of that quote lead me to the beautifully 90s http://www.mindgazer.org/dontpanic/ 01:58:14 proloque 01:59:21 it's french 01:59:38 they have g in french elliott 02:01:44 not since the revolution 02:02:48 they used up all the g's to make guillotines 02:07:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:08:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:13:28 Bike: oh gosh http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OVERWEIGHT_SUBMARINE?SITE=NYMID&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT 02:13:57 ha i heard about that 02:14:31 $14 million, damn 02:15:09 that link doesn't work for me :( 02:16:34 HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) -- A new, Spanish-designed submarine has a weighty problem: The vessel is more than 70 tons too heavy, and officials fear if it goes out to sea, it will not be able to surface. 02:16:38 And a former Spanish official says the problem can be traced to a miscalculation - someone apparently put a decimal point in the wrong place. 02:16:41 "It was a fatal mistake," said Rafael Bardaji, who until recently was director of the Office of Strategic Assessment at Spain's Defense Ministry. 02:18:28 an error of some magnitude 02:18:37 yes 02:20:04 is the dual of an error an errand 02:20:08 the submarine must have eaten too much junk food 02:20:12 ... what would submarine junk food be? 02:20:46 uranium 02:21:30 I guess that makes sense 02:21:39 yellow cake? 02:21:46 ^__^ 02:22:00 (that was terrible, I'm sorry -_-) 02:22:07 i like that "until recently was director" 02:22:28 lol 02:22:37 kmc: should i open a firefox bug 02:23:54 or is it more of a "core" bug you're the mozilla expert here 02:24:18 mozillexpert 02:24:33 Fiora: that was nowhere near bad enough to apologize for imo. try harder next time. 02:24:34 i don't knowchaf 02:24:44 will kmc be obligated to switch browsers when he works at mozilla alt. does he use firefox already 02:24:49 i use chrome now 02:24:55 elliott: when there's a servo browser...............maybe 02:24:59 and i'll be working on the /new/ browser engine so until... yeah 02:25:07 btw I got the offer paperwork today :D :D 02:25:21 are you have decided yet 02:25:38 is there a distinct position of "working on the new browser in rust" vs. "working on rust" 02:25:40 i somewhat doubt spanish submarines are nuclear, anyway 02:25:45 or is there overlap 02:27:14 kmc used to know how to program but then he got rusty 02:27:21 l - o - l 02:27:24 elliott: there is a distinct position but kmc would be the first person to have it or something like that 02:27:43 basically 02:27:50 oh, it's diesel electric. 02:27:51 not first but one of the first 02:27:52 kmc browser developer #1 02:28:00 most of the servo development to date has been by the rust people 02:28:06 seems like you'd want your browser developers to be able to work on the language too 02:28:09 given the symbioticness 02:28:16 maybe mozilla is open enough that they can just go ahead and do that anyway though 02:28:18 yep 02:28:22 they're both on github 02:28:24 ....huh? Is Firefox being rewritten in Rust? 02:28:42 hi Sgeo 02:28:56 Sgeo: yes, Mozilla is writing a new browser engine in Rust 02:28:56 kmc: you should get a #1 hand sign like the people in the onion cartoon 02:28:57 yes.. that is what's happening. 02:28:59 Sgeo: No, but Mozilla is doing some browser development in Rust... 02:29:08 currently the rendering engine 02:29:10 Principally as an experiment. 02:29:11 http://www.theonion.com/articles/selling-america-short,32564/ 02:29:19 javascript and parsing and network and lots of other stuff are still C libraries 02:29:24 Ah 02:29:31 Could turn into a full Rust rewrite at some point. 02:29:32 Sgeo: if your question is "will the new browser eventually be renamed to Firefox" then I don't know of any plans to do so 02:29:43 they are pretty serious about it becoming a real product though 02:29:53 ATM it's more to drive development of Rust I think. 02:29:55 one step at a time 02:29:57 there are now a bunch of Samsung employees working on Rust and Servo 02:29:58 rename it to phoenix 02:29:59 then firebird 02:30:03 because Samsung thinks it will be a better mobile browser 02:30:04 then you can start thinking about calling it firefox 02:30:09 Having a non-trivial program in your new language helps a lot. 02:30:16 kmc: should write your browser in @ instead 02:30:23 bet it'll be more secure 02:30:32 pikhq: the two projects are symbiotic, you could just as well say that Servo is the resaon Rust exists 02:30:40 This is true. 02:30:47 elliott: nothing is more secure than programs written in @ 02:31:00 except maybe for denial of service attacks................... 02:31:19 I've got to give Rust props. I have no idea if it'll be *good*, but it is at least *interesting*. 02:31:24 Someone should make a language where the empty program is the least secure program possible in the language. 02:31:25 yes 02:31:41 i nominate you Sgeo 02:31:49 And there's a real shortage of interesting serious languages. 02:31:54 yep 02:32:02 especially in the "C and C++ replacement" category 02:32:05 Yes. 02:32:16 are you going to write programs in D/Rust now 02:32:25 It's telling that C is still the best language for that niche. 02:32:27 By far. 02:32:31 Go is a "C replacement", in that it's a ploy aimed at people who still use C for applications development for no reason 02:33:28 it's not really a serious replacement for OS kernels or latency-critical stuff 02:33:42 browser kernels 02:34:01 OS kernel, in Go? Hell no. 02:34:03 it's like Java but with even more limitations, and just enough tinge of the weird to make it acceptable to Real Programmers who look down on Java 02:34:22 how exciting 02:34:24 It's also a profoundly mundane language. 02:34:31 go more like went 02:34:38 indeed 02:34:49 Go has built-in generics but no way to make your own, right? 02:34:52 yep 02:34:56 lol, nice 02:35:44 so when are you moving here 02:35:47 Amazon now tracks which videos you've watched! 02:35:57 Or, well, displays it nicely 02:36:02 I guess it has to have been tracking 02:36:05 watched... on what... 02:36:13 shachaf: I'm going to give them a start date of July 1 i think 02:36:15 so, soon 02:36:34 Bike, on Amazon 02:36:42 amazon has videos? 02:37:01 yep they sell streaming video 02:37:03 i'll move to sf too "bandwagoning" 02:37:07 or give you lots of things for free, with Prime 02:37:16 elliott: do it 02:37:53 doesn't sf cost $everything/mo 02:37:58 http://www.theonion.com/articles/woe-is-euro,28491/ 02:37:59 like that 02:38:02 elliott: more than that hth 02:38:18 ok but i don't have $everything 02:38:37 but can you steal that much? 02:38:45 god i love the kelly comics 02:38:58 i wish kelly wasn't so accurate 02:39:36 amazon lets you remove things from your history though, right? I remember it had a thing 02:39:42 so you could make it ignore something for the purpose of suggesting stuff 02:39:55 sorry amazon, i need you to forget all this horse porn. thanks 02:40:31 "I was looking at this product for the parody reviews, I don't actually want lots of random numbers ;_;" 02:40:42 elliott: you could move to epa 02:40:50 speaking of which i should move out of epa 02:41:31 shachaf: i hear EPA has violence, violence, violence, violence, and thinly-veiled racism concealed behind questions about violence [source: quora] 02:41:42 [source: I am a violent racist in EPA] 02:42:24 Fiora: did you know RAND claims copyright on the random numbers in that book 02:42:44 Fiora: http://hcoop.net/~ntk/random/ 02:43:26 cute 02:43:59 i'm curious who would need this 02:44:22 people who need digits... and fast 02:44:28 and furious 02:45:00 i'd kind of like to see a court case about copyrighted random numbers, that would be interesting 02:47:42 I guess nowadays it's less necessary 02:47:46 with PRNGs 02:48:06 yeah i can't imagine anyone actually taking it to court, i'm just wondering how it would work out 02:52:30 i think they had PRNGs back then, they just weren't very good 02:52:35 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:53:00 i like to imagine some confused RAND employee getting frustrated with Knuth's shitty prng 02:53:02 computers were too slow to run a good one 02:58:03 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=880926 02:58:42 ok 03:10:27 oh dear, their bugzilla allows live html attachements that show up in bug880926.bugzilla.mozilla.org 03:10:32 (eg) 03:10:52 that's not great for security 03:10:54 quite the 'meta bug' 03:12:51 haha. 03:15:16 ⫻ 03:18:26 whychaf 03:18:37 whywhat 03:18:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnite). 03:23:42 -!- kappabot has joined. 03:23:45 hippabot 03:24:01 woow 03:24:09 hipaabot 03:24:19 κappabot 03:24:29 crappabot 03:24:39 shachaf: kappabot is wearing your cloak 03:24:45 also how do I get a cloak 03:24:54 kidnap an oper 03:24:54 καππα⊥ 03:25:03 kmc: ask tt 03:25:08 really 03:25:13 at least that's how i got mine 03:25:15 is tt the secret pope of freenode 03:25:16 cool 03:25:18 useful 03:25:26 he was just handin' them out 03:25:34 kmc: you can just join #freenode 03:25:37 and say hi i want a cloak 03:25:39 and then you get one 03:25:39 you could do that too 03:25:40 it's pretty boring 03:25:41 o rly 03:25:52 not fashionable in the slightest 03:25:56 elliott: boooooooring 03:25:58 maybe you can get a fancy "works at mozilla" cloak 03:26:00 bꙮring 03:26:02 hmmmm 03:26:02 you aristocat 03:26:09 uh 03:26:11 that was a typo 03:26:15 should i have a compose key for ꙮ 03:26:20 what is that 03:26:22 i cannot see it 03:26:24 should it be Multi_key o o o o o o o o 03:26:36 right now i have Multi_key o o bound to ° 03:26:52 right now i just use ISO 14755 Mode 03:26:56 What's that? 03:26:59 The laser beam activated pest trap system is then activated, with all three of them being zapped, leaving just tufts of hair on all of them. That beam also travels into outer space and hits a satellite, destroying it. 03:27:05 I use ctrl-shift-u a 6 6 e 03:27:05 press ctrl and shift at the same time in urxvt 03:27:20 And then what? Type the codepoint? 03:27:23 yep 03:27:28 whilst keeping them held down 03:27:31 OK, I used to do that. 03:27:55 You can also type other things conveniently by pressing ctrl-shift and then letting go and then pressing a key. 03:28:00 For example ← 03:28:09 oh, nice. 03:28:10 yes, KEYCAP PICTURE INSERT MODE 03:28:19 i've been wondering what that's for 03:28:35 ⎈ doesn't look like ctrl but hey w/e 03:28:37 Bike: You can type other things conveniently by coming to San Francisco! 03:28:48 why do you want me to come to san francisco 03:29:01 2388HELM SYMBOL = control 03:29:19 Bike: because how else can i say that all the cool people come to san francisco hth 03:29:39 Bike: i think this is shachafs way of telling you you are cool 03:29:44 no 03:29:49 * Fiora isn't cool, so stays out of SF? 03:29:55 "no, you're not cool, Bike" 03:29:56 hey 03:29:59 do you remember how old PC software used to come with a plastic sheet that fit around your keys and was labeled with the various functions for that software and color coded according to whether you should use them with shift, ctrl, etc? 03:29:59 someone 03:30:03 Fiora: imo come to sf 03:30:10 ellkott Bike kmc shachaf 03:30:13 kmc: wow no 03:30:21 i;m missing out 03:30:23 or maybe I just made that up just now 03:30:24 shachaf: seducing another? 03:30:26 not 100% sure 03:30:29 kmc: i sort of remember that but i don't think i ever actually that 03:30:30 quintopia: yes? 03:30:32 Gracenotes: ? 03:30:34 but I like my apartment here... 03:30:37 to the bay area 03:30:45 Gracenotes: kmc is moving here! 03:30:58 i need an iptables ruleset because mine got deleted. just the basic rules everyone has. 03:31:14 i don't have any oops. 03:31:15 c.c 03:31:22 don't have any cool iptables rules handy, sorry 03:31:35 maybe once you move to sf you'll have some...................... 03:31:53 Fiora: But think of all the great friends you could make here! 03:32:04 There's a big friend shop in downtown SF where you can buy friends. 03:32:14 but I don't want to buy friends... that doesn't sound right 03:32:14 that sounds incredibly convenient 03:32:22 except i don't have money. way to discriminate. 03:32:29 i'll be your friend for free Bike 03:32:31 is this code speak for drugz 03:32:34 Fiora: Hey, I'm not the one who brought up friend shops. 03:32:36 nice!! 03:32:39 except are you a communist 03:32:43 only a little 03:32:47 kmc: do you buy "friends" from the "friend shop" 03:32:58 iykwim 03:33:13 my ol' friends hashy and methylenedioxymethamphetamine (he's swedish) 03:34:05 elliott: halp plox 03:34:43 shachaf: it's not much good if bahaskell don't meet 03:34:46 i know nothing about iptables 03:34:57 Gracenotes: bahaskell will meet 03:35:02 I'm not sure silicon valley friends sound very good either 03:35:12 burn 03:35:17 thx Fiora :'( 03:35:31 I... ... sorry... 03:35:34 Ididn't mean that as... bleh 03:35:36 at least it's not san fernando valley friends 03:35:46 Fiora: It's OK, we didn't take it that way. 03:35:48 san francisco >>> silicon valley 03:35:49 fyi 03:36:00 ew arrows 03:36:16 ⋙ 03:36:19 does Unicode have a codepoint for VERY MUCH GREATER THAN 03:36:20 san francisco → silicon valley fyi 03:36:22 yes 03:36:23 * Bike goes mad with power 03:36:26 it's the one i gave 03:36:28 oh it's the one you efb 03:36:34 but it doesn't render in my terminal THANKS A LOT, SCREEN 03:36:40 ? 03:36:45 It's BMP. 03:36:48 U+22D9 03:37:06 By the way tmux is broken too. :-( With certain emoji codepoints. 03:37:07 still 03:37:21 is it actually tmux, or are you just lacking those in your locale 03:37:56 oh wait hmm 03:38:06 oh 03:38:10 it works with ssh shachaf.net 03:38:11 Fiora: (i was just kidding, btw) 03:38:13 but not with mosh shachaf.net 03:38:16 -!- rahman0804 has joined. 03:38:19 then it's probably the locale 03:38:37 Bike: The San Francisco and San Jose Railroad 03:38:46 The locale how? 03:38:57 oh... 03:38:57 LANG etc. are en_US.UTF-8 both ways. 03:38:58 those emoji aren't in the server-side locale, maybe? 03:39:02 I'm not very good at catching jokes 03:39:11 we ought to merge one of the hardcoded wcwidth() implementations... 03:39:11 Fiora: Oh. Sorry. 03:39:15 then this won't happen 03:39:27 THANKS A LOT MOSH 03:39:30 thosh 03:39:43 -!- rahman0804 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:39:49 ♡osh 03:39:57 o_O 03:39:58 20:39 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with rahman0804 03:39:58 20:39 hy 03:39:58 20:39 -!- rahman0804 [~rahman080@114.79.28.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:10 o_O 03:40:33 o_O_○ 03:40:42 ꙮ_ꙮ 03:40:52 hy 03:41:06 o_Ꙭ 03:41:15 cool someone put a better reference image on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiocular_O 03:41:25 Ꙩ_Ꙭ 03:41:37 kmc: you already said that didn't you 03:41:41 probably 03:41:49 kmc should start a blog about multiocular o 03:41:56 Fiora: the other day a stranger messaged me for a "normal chat" here it was weird 03:42:22 today someone walked up to me and asked if i was a "php coder"................ 03:42:26 nice 03:42:29 were you? 03:42:29 and then they asked about sql and perl 03:42:38 i decided not to be a php coder today 03:42:45 k 03:42:50 should i have said yes 03:42:52 php codez 03:42:53 opened the door to adventure 03:43:00 Bike: I sometimes wish someone (not completely skeezy) would do that for once 03:43:02 it never happens though 03:43:13 shachaf: walked up to you in person? 03:43:16 Yep. 03:43:20 maybe i can get you in touch with this person 03:43:24 they weren't skeezy, weirdly 03:43:41 am i skeezy 03:43:51 eventually they left because they detected that i had no idea what was going on though 03:44:08 shachaf: 'the bay area' 03:44:17 where was this? and did they have some reason to think you were a PHP coder 03:44:24 palo alto 03:44:33 "a quiet young person within 50 miles of san francisco, he must be a PHP coder" 03:44:35 totally gonna heck kmc's aim by asking him if he's a php coder if i ever see him irl 03:44:35 well i was using a computer at the time 03:44:47 elliott: i have been paid to write PHP code 03:44:49 it is my eternal shame 03:44:50 * Bike checks logs, finds that the person apparently PMed at least two other peopl in the channel 03:44:56 kmc: blood money 03:45:08 I've been trying to avoid general language bashing because it sucks so much, and I think my strategy for this is to just bash PHP 03:45:13 because PHP really deserves it 03:45:15 a normal person might be shamed by paying into violent diamond mines. but coders are special people 03:45:27 cooders 03:45:41 Bike: how do you have logs of who someone else has PMed??? 03:45:42 are you NSA 03:45:44 kmc: #haskell{,-blah} language circlejerks make me want to defend java to the death 03:45:45 kmc: you know what language makes for some really good bashing 03:45:48 you have to tell me if you're NSA 03:45:49 but not php because uh, it's php 03:45:59 hint 03:46:07 well ok no hint 03:46:07 kmc: a couple "why are you PMing me" messages in the channel, also no i don't i'm under a reverse national security letter hth 03:46:13 elliott: i used to defend Jafa in #haskell but usually in a kind of backhanded "it's great for lots of dumb people who aren't as smart as us" way which I eventually got sick of too 03:46:31 also Java 03:46:35 Jaffa 03:46:38 i've gotten used to defending languages i don't like 03:46:38 I just make a no-language-bashing rule in #haskell 03:46:43 Unfortuantely I don't enforce it 03:46:46 because language circlejerks are just that fucking boring 03:46:50 shachaf: which language is it 03:46:52 And people always say it's just in good fun, so who cares, right? 03:46:55 kmc: is it just me or are language arguments/circlejerking/that kind of thing basically like the nerd equivalent of sports team arguments or something? 03:46:56 kmc: bash hth 03:46:58 kmc: i think i usually just tell people to shut up 03:47:05 shachaf: looooool 03:47:08 it seems like the most direct way to express the problem 03:47:08 Fiora: yeah, could be 03:47:20 like, you're on a team, and you have to ~defend~ that team 'cause it's your team 03:47:26 it sucks because I think in depth comparisons of languages are really interesting 03:47:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:47:28 and your team is totes better than the other team 03:47:40 and gosh did you see those new APIs it got in the draft this year 03:47:42 but the arguments usually avoid anything interesting or complex 03:47:45 does this mean I get to wear @ merchandise 03:47:45 Fiora: heh, yup 03:47:45 or something I really don't know sports 03:47:49 like in #lisp there's lots of people going on about how elegant it is or whatever and i'm like can't you write some code instead of having a watered-down spiritual experience all over my irc 03:47:52 because if so I am so down with this analogy 03:47:56 elliott: @ is an exception; @ is life 03:47:56 Bike: hahaha yes 03:48:02 Bike: "if you think Lisp is great you should try acid" 03:48:06 actually 03:48:09 kmc: new go-to reply, thx 03:48:13 i was given this advice about Haskell more or less 03:48:20 does this mean I should try acid 03:48:26 elliott: you should try acid eventually, yes 03:48:28 everyone should 03:48:30 maybe i'll act like a hardcore christian 03:48:31 maybe wait until you're not 17 03:48:39 you know what's more elegant than lisp? the book of enoch 03:48:43 when kmc moves to san francisco he can be my dealer 03:48:53 what am i getting into........... 03:49:06 ezoteric drugz 03:49:15 (the joke is you were already into those??????) 03:50:02 kmc: so i should try acid in august, check 03:50:06 marked my calendar 03:50:13 wait, why does being 17 matter for acid 03:50:23 Bike: it's illegal when you're under 18 hth 03:50:28 um 03:50:30 because kmc will face a longer sentence if i'm a minor 03:50:41 the crime of suggesting drugz 03:50:50 insidious 03:52:12 kmc: Is there a name for the thing where you extract information a character at a time in a way that you couldn't do for an entire string, etc.? 03:52:24 It's like some timing attacks and so on but it's more general than that. 03:52:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:53:32 partial something oracle 03:53:33 maybe 03:54:05 maybe 03:55:01 partial something oracle (technical term) 03:58:20 i bet @tqbf knows 04:04:04 mnoqy: they're having a nose competition in #perl6 04:04:12 that sounds cool 04:04:22 whats it like 04:04:31 21:02 :•) 04:04:37 21:02 :˒) 04:04:37 21:03 :◃) 04:04:42 cool 04:04:45 and more 04:04:50 21:01 <+yoleaux> U+2FD0 KANGXI RADICAL NOSE [So] (⿐) 04:04:54 it's getting p. crazy 04:05:12 i can't believe larry wall actually talks on irc 04:05:23 kangxi radical wall 04:05:27 what else do you do on irc 04:05:37 ...well, idle, I suppose. 04:05:40 Gracenotes: ban people 04:05:42 erotic roleplay 04:05:55 compute fibonacci numbers 04:06:18 erotic roleplay would involve talking wouldnt it 04:06:26 depends on your fetish 04:06:26 .......in a certain sense of talking 04:06:34 the "silence fetish" 04:06:53 fetish whereby you get off by watching other people engage in erotic roleplay? 04:09:37 -!- conehead has joined. 04:12:38 > "ꙮ" 04:12:38 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 04:12:39 "\42606" 04:12:51 thappabot 04:13:11 i bet you live in san francisco "you're just that cool" 04:13:31 actually i live in fremont, ca 04:13:34 ok 04:24:22 esoteric/2012-12-16.txt:05:48:56: maybe i should get a tattoo of multiocular o 04:25:28 oh dear 04:27:42 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:47 A YouTube video just reminded me of a game I used to suck at 04:58:22 It was ... some kind of CA fight thing 04:58:25 Available on Linux 04:59:06 Liquid War :D 05:03:13 http://www.gnu.org/software/liquidwar6/ 05:03:21 The guy in the video has a ... voice 05:04:01 I too have a voice. It is my curse, and my blessing. 05:04:27 /msg chanserv voice #esoteric Bike 05:04:34 This guy's voice is notable 05:05:22 Seems like it could be a cool game for a tablet 05:06:30 elliott: get on this. thx 05:07:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 05:07:39 "hth", as they say 05:07:46 Knew I could count on you. 05:07:48 Bike: yo it's 6 am - do i sleep 05:07:59 I... how long have you been awake 05:08:03 um 05:08:06 since like 05:08:09 hey do i get voice 05:08:10 "last week" 05:08:12 1, 2 pm? but i didn't sleep that much 05:08:22 * Bike counts on fingers 05:08:27 uh this is hard. play it safe and sleep imo 05:08:32 i used to counton my fingers 05:08:35 but they always let me down :'( 05:08:52 s/ton/t on/ 05:09:23 hey Bike should i sleep 05:09:35 Are you tireD? 05:09:49 of #haskell? kinda 05:10:19 We're all tired of #haskell. 05:10:47 Sgeo: when 's my `olist 05:11:25 Fiora: now that haswell is out should i acquire a haswell computer 05:11:35 i'm not longer interested in the things i was interested in it for once upon a time 05:11:40 shachaf, non-existent as of this point in time, unless I have caching issues. 05:11:45 Thanks for making me check >:( 05:12:19 Sgeo: If it had updated, I would've `olisted myself. 05:12:23 I'm asking *when*. 05:12:59 In all likelihood, it exists sometime between 1 second from now and a billion years from now. 05:13:09 hth 05:13:32 tht? 05:13:37 a billion years from now the average surface temperature on earth will be 47° hth 05:13:45 according to wikipedia 05:13:47 gtk 05:13:55 @wn gtk 05:13:57 No match for "gtk". 05:13:57 No match for "gtk". 05:14:09 shachaf: um... I don't really know, I guess it kinda depends on what you currently have and stuff... 05:14:49 liquidwar6 segfaults :( 05:15:04 liquidwar5 4ever 05:19:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:19:32 'good to know' 05:24:53 The AI in liquidwar5 is ... not good 05:25:26 improve it 05:28:38 Found the AI difficulty slider 05:28:44 Kicked it up a notch 05:28:55 Still wasn't very good, but held a defensive position for a long time 05:29:16 Sgeo: wow this is like one of those movies 05:29:45 The guy's voice? 05:29:58 no the way you improved the ai 05:33:12 Kicked it up another notch. I am being ground into paste. 05:34:04 haha 05:36:09 kmc: help how do i prepare for job interview 05:36:40 hmmmmm 05:36:46 first you should have an appointment for a job interview, and transportation 05:37:15 that is p. important 05:37:37 Well, I finally didn't lose against this.... but didn't fully win 05:37:44 shachaf: at my most recent interviews I got surprisingly few algorithms / puzzles / etc questions, and lots of questions about my background and stuff I've done in the past 05:37:45 Had enemy mostly surrounded, but it held out 05:37:48 get some sleep and try to not panic too much? 05:37:53 so I feel like having rehersed answers for the latter helped me 05:38:05 like, deciding ahead of time what I would say to "Why did your past two jobs last less than a year each?" was important 05:38:15 i don't know how much this is true for you 05:38:23 I know some companies do lots of puzzle questions even for experienced people 05:38:27 but I think that's falling out of favor 05:38:43 I guess just make sure you can talk about everything on your resume, and in some technical detail 05:39:29 if the company wants you to have, like, memorized http://bigocheatsheet.com/ then I think you shouldn't work there if you can help it ;P 05:40:29 -!- myname has joined. 05:41:17 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:41:48 o no shachaf missed my advice 05:42:01 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:42:24 Hmm, irssi ran into a very odd bug. 05:42:29 I thought it was tmux but I guess not. 05:42:44 Don't worry, I managed to logread it. 05:42:52 :) 05:44:04 Anyway it's just some phone interviews at this point. 05:44:09 "mizled" 05:44:11 oh 05:44:27 good luckchaf 05:56:20 i forgot how tiring being tired is 05:56:46 being not tired is also tiring 05:57:20 in fact just about everything is tiring except sleeping 06:00:27 sleeping makes me tired sometimes too 06:00:44 that's true 06:00:48 i'm p. tired when i wake up 06:00:59 it's kind of delayed action untiringness 06:13:20 that is why god invented coffee 06:13:27 or diet mt dew as the case may be 06:15:15 or those big cups of questionable liquid you were drinking 06:15:23 maybe that wasn't caffeinated 06:17:03 my new shachaf repellent is called caffeinated drums 06:18:00 what's wrong with your old shachaf repellent 06:18:24 existence failure 06:19:04 as we all know failing to exist is a poor way to repel shachaf 06:19:42 huh 06:19:45 why 06:20:55 which questionable liquid was i drinking when 06:21:22 i used to drink 'questionable liquid' i.e. bitter water with food coloring that comes out of a glass labware bottle labeled "POISON DO NOT DRINK" 06:21:32 v. careful amounts thereof 06:21:54 we had a color coding system for indicating which synthetic hallucinogen it was 06:21:57 safety first 06:22:11 oh i just meant that big cup from that store we went to twice 06:22:21 7-Eleven? 06:22:25 yes 06:22:31 yes we had to go twice because i drank the first one 06:22:45 the 7-Eleven refill is a wonderful thing 06:23:11 i assume it was some form of sugar water 06:23:15 most things are, really 06:23:27 aspartame water 06:23:41 well there was a little sugar because I usually mix in some amount of non-diet drinx, e.g. lemonade 06:23:49 oh 06:23:51 good drinx 06:24:18 kmc is wild 06:26:15 oh was it soda 06:26:20 yes 06:26:23 oh 06:26:25 Diet Coke with some lemonade, I think 06:26:27 i can't drink soda 06:26:29 maybe Coke Zero w/ same 06:26:34 why not 06:26:46 have never managed to drink anything carbonated 06:26:49 i just spit it out 06:26:50 oh 06:26:53 v. unpleasant 06:26:54 that's fair I suppose 06:27:01 what's fair about it 06:27:06 soda is the drums of the drink world 06:27:11 true 06:27:20 what does that mean 06:27:29 elliott: carbonated drum hth 06:27:33 `welcome sacje 06:27:37 oh right i meant carbonated 06:27:38 sacje: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:27:38 fuck 06:27:44 elliott: oh 06:27:47 thanks kmc 06:27:49 now i understand what you meant thx 06:27:53 i feel welcome now 06:27:59 i like both carbonation and drums im the anti shachaf 06:28:04 good 06:28:06 `relcome sacje 06:28:09 ​sacje: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:28:26 kmc: i don't know how you can stand to use plain old `welcome when we have so many fantastic welcoming options 06:28:28 i can only feel so welcome guys 06:28:34 `WELCOME sacje 06:28:34 no 06:28:36 there is no limit 06:28:37 SACJE: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 06:28:39 an elegant, minimalist `welcome 06:28:43 that is the first thing to learn 06:29:00 fiora still has to attend therapy after all that welcoming 06:29:18 did we ever re-welcome Fiora after she came back 06:29:25 `relcome Fiora 06:29:26 how about let's not 06:29:28 ​Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:29:28 oh 06:29:30 too late 06:37:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 07:28:19 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:39:17 kmc: oh boy 08:39:41 have fun with that particular individual 08:39:45 ok 08:39:51 welp 08:40:23 Perhaps they won't be as bad here as in #haskell. 08:41:41 kmc: my psychic knowledge tells me exactly who you're talking to 08:41:49 it also tells you that you shouldn't bother 08:44:50 wow 08:44:51 psychic 08:45:39 kmc: it's the powers of not living in sf 08:45:52 o no if i move will i lose my psychic powers 08:46:01 you've already lost them 08:46:09 o well 08:46:15 the powers can sense that you're going to move to sf and leave before you do 08:53:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:54:28 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:57:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:16:25 oerjan: hth 09:50:01 -!- nooga has joined. 09:55:19 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:46:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:51:36 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:52:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:52:26 -!- Koen_ has joined. 10:54:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:09:57 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:15:52 shachaf: thank you for the welcome x3 11:25:06 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:26:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:27:40 Fiora: You're... welcome. 11:30:50 hee hee 11:35:57 * Fiora considers her terrible lack of sleep and goes to play more class of heroes instead 11:43:21 -!- carado has joined. 11:44:26 `pastelogs ching 11:44:40 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4062 11:45:14 `pastelog i-ching 11:45:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25547 11:46:20 darn 11:47:58 `cat bin/pastelog 11:47:59 ​#!/bin/bash \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ 11:52:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:25:01 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 12:26:30 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:28:59 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Client Quit). 13:16:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:33:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:34:46 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:02:30 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:03:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:08:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:12:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:49:49 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:00:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:03:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:09:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:24:25 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:24:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:26:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:29:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:30:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:32:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:37:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:38:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:40:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:50:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:55:09 do you remember how old PC software used to come with a plastic sheet that fit around your keys and was labeled with the various functions for that software and color coded according to whether you should use them with shift, ctrl, etc? <-- the washing machine came with such sheets in several different languages. no ctrl/shift keys, though. 16:05:32 heh 16:05:52 Hm, when was that? (For PC software, not washing machines) 16:06:17 well, i suppose there were several modifier keys, like prewash. but they weren't marked on the other ones. 16:06:50 -!- Bike has joined. 16:07:03 i vaguely recall such a pc sheet 16:07:11 I never heard of that 16:07:37 i think it was for a word processing program 16:08:05 DOS or Windows era? 16:08:19 i think windows, not sure. 16:10:27 yeah I think we had one for a pre-Windows word processing program 16:10:36 Oh *man* those things were terrible. 16:10:46 for me the timeline is a little confused because I had got a lot of computer junk to play with that was obsolete even in 1995 16:10:56 Likewise... 16:11:02 I learned to code on an Apple II. 16:11:12 I was 2 when they stopped making 'em. 16:12:51 but you turned out all right anyhow? 16:13:28 I did a little early programming on Apple ][ as well 16:13:50 but I would say I learned to program in QBASIC and TI-83+ BASIC 16:13:56 and a bit later Visual Basic 4.0 16:15:12 i recall visiting someone on a vacation, who had something which was probably an Apple II. and also managing to make a flag picture on it. that may have been my first physical contact with a computer. 16:15:34 despite its limitations the TI-83+ was a great platform for learning to code 16:17:12 although i am not _quite_ sure whether that was before or after my dad brought home a typewriter/modem device and let me play with basic on a Nord-100 server. 16:19:59 "The board was laid out and finished and tested when they realized that the CPU was far faster than the Nord-10/S. The result was that all the marketing material for the new NORD-10/M was discarded, the board was rechristened the Nord-100, and extensively advertised as the successor of the Nord-10 line." 16:27:27 Bike: how do you have logs of who someone else has PMed??? <-- he just uses the Prism interface in lens, duh 16:45:57 -!- flier has joined. 16:47:28 `rwelcome flier 16:47:32 ​flier: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:49:44 as we all know failing to exist is a poor way to repel shachaf <-- i dunno, has canada avoided shachaf up until now? 16:50:45 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:57:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:59:46 -!- flier has left. 17:10:47 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:11:21 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:19:30 -!- conehead has joined. 17:21:50 kmc: I think I learned with... I think it was Borland C with my dad? and my TI-82 17:21:56 later TI-83 and stuff 17:22:34 one of the few things I remember about being, like, 9, is being a total dumb and leaving my TI-82 right under the halogen lamp on my desk, only to find later that I melted off the corner of it (but it still worked) 17:23:00 ....someone in the Active Worlds FB group, of all places, posted me this: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38547658.jpg 17:25:01 sgeo: ಠ_ಠ 17:25:01 ¯|¯⌠ 17:25:01 /´\| 17:26:15 ... 17:26:31 ^celebrate 17:34:23 no f{izzie,ungot}! 17:34:59 myndzi has added new features? 17:55:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:57:40 http://pastebin.com/Q9VwEMfk the face of modern hacking 18:00:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:01:52 do the stallman pictures include the toe eating stuff 18:03:17 I should learn Jack... 18:03:44 the wh... 18:03:52 Sgeo: it's actually pretty simple 18:04:20 &-style Perl function calls. 2012. 18:04:31 I saw some suggestion for a GUI config tool, but that's not actually necessary, right? 18:04:59 nah 18:05:02 hella convenient however 18:05:29 Blargh. Worth it to set up X forwarding to use it? 18:08:19 “set up X forwarding” a.k.a. adding the -X parameter to ssh? 18:09:56 It would use up bandwidth, wouldn't it? 18:10:35 That’s what using the network tends to do. 18:11:01 Does anyone happen to know what SI stands for in US classification terminology? TS//SI//NF is obviously top seccret//something??//noforn 18:11:24 Well, that was painfully slow 18:11:34 I think I'll avoid it 18:12:49 Bike: http://www.acronymfinder.com/TS%2fSI.html hth 18:13:24 hey that actually does. thanks. 18:17:02 -!- flier has joined. 18:18:55 so apparently jon oliver is going to present the daily show for a bit? 18:19:02 imo: a bigger step forward than obama 18:30:23 "Finally, a British man can be funny in America" 18:33:06 well think about it 18:33:19 the americans are now comfortable with an englishman taking the piss out of america 18:33:35 americans hate the english taking the piss out of america 18:35:41 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:36:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:36:12 i don't know if the daily show's target demographic is stereotypical americans 18:36:19 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:38:33 Ubuntu-Mx 8 Bienvenido al Canal de la Comunidad de Ubuntu Mxico! || Ten presente siempre el Cdigo de Conducta || Visita nuestro sitio en http://ubuntumexico.org/ || nete en Launchpad https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mx || Nosotros somos por que t eres! Si necesitas ayuda pregunta a todo el canal. || Reglas del Canal: http://niq.mx/umxirc || Para pegar usa http://pastebin.ubuntu.com 18:38:43 gotcha 18:38:51 `relcome flier 18:38:54 ​flier: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:41:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No buffer space available). 18:42:13 -!- augur has joined. 18:44:04 Bike: they're stereotypical democrats, no? 18:44:15 which as we all know aren't real americans. 18:44:22 more like stereotypical stoned college students 18:44:38 ah, a subset of democrats. 18:45:26 also, has the republican party collapsed completely yet, i may have paid less attention for a while 18:45:50 Not yet. Bachmann quit or something. 18:46:16 i guess they need an election to observe the actual collapse, like in quantum mechanics 18:47:50 -!- flier has left. 18:48:13 i'm wondering if flier has quite the hang of irc yet 18:48:26 spammers have the hang too 18:48:31 just a different hang 18:48:57 that wasn't really spam, it was the topic message for #ubuntu-mx 18:49:36 That doesn't necessarily mean it isn't spam. 18:49:44 i'm sorry. your sentence made no sense 18:49:50 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:49:58 "that wasn't really spam, it was spam" 18:50:09 well it's not commercial. 18:50:22 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:51:01 which means i suspect it was more likely to be a mistake than intended 19:09:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:56:02 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:56:50 -!- augur has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:56:53 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 19:59:11 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 19:59:57 oerjan, oi, can you define prime numbers categorically 20:05:40 someone probably can 20:06:01 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 20:07:59 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:07:59 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:08:40 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:50 -!- atehwa has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 20:08:57 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 20:09:17 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 20:09:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Excess Flood). 20:09:28 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:09:31 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 20:09:31 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 20:09:41 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 20:10:37 -!- variable has joined. 20:10:43 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:10:52 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:10:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:11:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:12:33 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:12:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:13:45 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:17:40 https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi are you all ready for islamic libertarian startup culture? 20:17:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:20:09 ayn al-rand 20:21:20 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:23:06 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:24:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:31:49 I made up a implementation of Deadfish in Nintendo Family Computer. 20:32:35 -!- quintopia has changed nick to Guest98034. 20:32:40 It can work with up to eight digits. 20:33:53 famicom esolang, nice 20:34:53 It could probably be made to fit in a much smaller ROM, but 16K is the smallest one available. 20:35:33 This is download http://zzo38computer.org/nes_program/deadfish.zip If you have a emulator or a Famicom then you can try it. 20:36:26 family computer brainfuck 20:36:39 Bike: I think there is one of that already. 20:37:35 Probably! 20:37:44 Well hey, there was Family Computer BASIC. 20:37:54 Sorry, "Family BASIC". 20:38:03 Clearly you should call it Family Deadfish. 20:38:23 Yes, there was that. I don't have a copy of Family BASIC, however; I only have the emulator, and I don't have Family BASIC on that either. 20:39:13 Pity. 20:40:22 * pikhq particularly loves that Family BASIC supported a tape drive 20:40:44 I have never written a program to use the tape yet. 20:41:19 Though in principle you could. The tape interface is on the keyboard. 20:41:33 But possibly a Z-machine interpreter could store the save files in a tape, or it could put the transcript there if you could connect a printer to the tape port somehow. 20:42:01 pikhq: Yes, and the emulator I use does support the tape (and the keyboard). 20:42:02 The tape hookup is a pair of mono phono jacks. 20:42:19 ... 20:42:23 Yes, I know that. 20:42:27 oh my god you could use that for Internet. 20:42:55 Was it famicom or super famicom that had the satellite hookup 20:43:01 Super Famicom. 20:43:18 The satellite hookup was one-way. 20:43:23 Aww. 20:43:35 The cart had a satellite tuner in it, and that was 'bout it. 20:44:27 -!- sacje has joined. 20:45:03 isn't there some way to compile C to 6502 asm out there 20:45:27 Yes. 20:45:40 nooodl: Yes, there is, and Zooming Secretary has been written using it. 20:45:53 I just used assembly language, though. 20:46:39 *Sweet*. Contiki already supports the NES. 20:47:43 This Deadfish implementation is much longer than the other ones because there is many things that isn't built-in. 20:50:18 If you try my implementation and you find any mistake or other comment, then please tell me about it. 20:53:01 It doesn't implement key repeat (you have to release the key before it will accept another command), but it does deal with overscan. 20:55:35 My favourite esolang thing will probably forever remain IBNIZ 20:56:33 What is IBNIZ? 20:57:38 It’s viznut’s audiovisual language. 20:57:42 My favorite is Bancstar 20:58:56 EODERMDROME 20:59:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:05:56 EMORDMREDOE 21:12:59 -!- conehead has joined. 21:19:16 daehenoc 21:19:26 yeknomcipe 21:27:53 Which NES/Famicom programs use OAM in ROM (instead of OAM in RAM, which is probably more common)? 21:29:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:39:25 ?sdrawkcab gnipyt uoy era yhw :lluFeerF 21:39:25 Unknown command, try @list 21:39:25 Unknown command, try @list 21:39:42 @botsnack 21:39:42 :) 21:39:42 :) 21:40:20 @botmeal 21:40:21 Unknown command, try @list 21:40:21 Unknown command, try @list 21:41:24 kappabot: @admin + oerjan 21:46:00 @admin + FreeFull 21:46:00 Not enough privileges 21:46:05 FAKE 21:46:19 oh wait 21:46:20 kappabot: @admin - FreeFull 21:46:33 silly bots 21:46:34 It worked fine. 21:46:49 The point is that you can make it leave the channel if the double-botting gets annoying. 21:46:59 ah. 21:47:33 lambdabot: @quit 21:47:34 Not enough privileges 21:48:03 lambdabot: HOW DARE YOU DEFY ME 21:48:04 lambdabot: @leave 21:48:05 Not enough privileges 21:48:20 lambdabot: @seriously, go away 21:48:20 Unknown command, try @list 21:48:28 @list quit 21:48:29 system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime 21:48:29 system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime 21:48:40 @list leave 21:48:40 system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime 21:48:40 system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime 21:48:48 very useful list 21:48:52 @help quit 21:48:52 quit [msg], have the bot exit with msg 21:48:53 quit [msg], have the bot exit with msg 21:48:56 @help leave 21:48:56 leave 21:48:57 leave 21:51:36 Fiora: hm, starting with C is pretty intense 21:51:44 i didn't know for a long time that you could get free C compilers 21:52:07 i had Teach Yourself Game Programming in 21 Days which came with a DOS C compiler, but like a bad / limited one 21:52:24 i really enjoyed reading that book but most of the stuff in it would be beyond my capabilities for like another 10 years 21:52:49 TI-8x was a great platform for learning programming 21:53:12 i had it with me always so i could spend spare moments programming (e.g. during the many long bus rides that defined my school existence) 21:53:40 and it had easy access to graphics, graphing, and menus which made it easy to do small games and demos without a lot of bullshit 21:54:02 and you could share your programs at school peer-to-peer in a way that was really compelling (probably not so much anymore for the facebook generation) 21:54:07 i still program ti 84 stuff :') 21:54:20 ti basic is very cute 21:55:34 guys. generalised deadfish http://sprunge.us/GeYR?hs 21:55:45 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Somalia_map_states_regions_districts.png&offset=&limit=500#filehistory wikipedia on the front lines 21:56:35 Bike: whoa that's pretty cool 21:56:47 should be a gif 21:57:03 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:57:52 good old somalia 21:58:13 i'm told that somaliland is a relatively stable (sub-)state by local standards 21:58:31 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:02 yeah, i know a guy who's family was going to move there 21:59:08 i, uh, haven't heard from him for a few months, hm. 21:59:13 i think lexande counts it as a country for his country count 21:59:17 Bike: eep 21:59:21 why were they moving there 21:59:34 His family was from the area. 21:59:52 The guy I knew wasn't really excited about it though. 21:59:57 can't imagine why 22:00:05 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:01:36 hopefully he's still in the UK and just hasn't been around 22:19:04 nooodl: why a type class and not ordinary polymorphic stuffs 22:19:53 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:21:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:23:24 why indeed 22:24:40 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 22:33:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:38:35 -!- dessos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:05:54 *grumble* I think I have a caffeine addiction 23:06:07 I don't drink coffee on the weekends, and lately I've been having a headache each weekend 23:06:46 yeah 23:06:52 you have a caffeine addiction 23:07:01 many people do 23:07:12 unrelated: does anyone here happen to know anything about baseball and the history thereof 23:14:21 bay area seball 23:14:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:14:31 c.c 23:25:22 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:26:17 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:26:38 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:28:02 Sgeo: that's why i always make sure to have caffeinated beverages (these days coke zero) in the house 23:29:03 oerjan, or I could try cutting myself down to 1 cup of coffee a day 23:29:17 -!- sacje has joined. 23:29:31 or you could not drink coffee hth 23:30:52 but that's boring! 23:31:17 yeah what w eneed here is definitely more drugs. 23:31:46 Oh, agreed. 23:31:54 Thus far my experience with drugs is that they are magic. 23:31:58 just cut your caffeine with heroin hth 23:32:00 who is drinking coke without sugar! that's like ..like 23:32:05 and coke yes 23:32:07 thx hagbard 23:32:18 ye.. safes life 23:32:28 job and family 23:32:41 :p 23:33:42 give me that zero shit! 23:33:54 must make an end to it 23:34:03 wait, are you talking about soda. 23:34:12 i may be confused 23:34:19 hagb4rd: Without sugar? We need more sugar! 23:34:27 icy suger 23:34:34 naj 23:34:45 that's all the same bike,..drugs 23:35:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHOFMiQYKI 23:35:52 drugs are good..people are bad 23:36:38 guns don't kill people.. people kill people 23:42:52 exporing inner and outer space 23:43:02 *exploring 23:43:50 hagb4rd: my weight dropped drastically approximately after i switched from sugared coke to zero. although there may have been other factors. 23:45:02 i'm sure there is no doubt such amounts of sugar are not healthy 23:45:18 i wish i had your reason 23:45:57 it wasn't reason, it was my stomach acting up and a fear i might be getting diabetes. 23:46:43 yes, death is the ultimate consultant 23:46:55 phew, far out again 23:47:13 stop ircing on drgus hth 23:47:27 (it felt wrong to fix that typo) 23:47:35 stop thinking about a pink elephant! 23:47:40 now! 23:47:49 i refuse! 23:47:56 I have a TI-92 calculator and sometimes program it. 23:47:58 and i shut up ;) 23:48:12 zzo38: *and am not afraid to use it 23:48:24 oerjan: Yes, that too. 23:49:32 Including a solitaire card game, a random name generator, a dice rolling program, Goldilock's Method, a telephone numbers database, and various other things. 23:59:30 -!- sprocklem has joined. 2013-06-09: 00:02:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:09:08 I seem to be slightly workaholic 00:09:23 Or... not 00:09:29 But I've been checking my work email repeatedly 00:10:06 -!- olsner has joined. 00:12:02 HELLO 00:12:09 no 00:18:27 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:18:45 HELO 00:21:52 did kmc get a job at mozilla? 00:23:35 Searching Amazon Instant Video for whose line is it anyway finds me Two and a Half Men 00:23:41 That's really not what I was looking for 00:25:13 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:33:23 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:37 olsner: yes 00:38:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:40:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:44:18 Hmm, Mastermind is easier than I remembered. 00:47:14 Maybe if I read about liquid war strategy, I can beat the AI on medium difficulty 00:47:33 So far, the closest I came to winning, I couldn't stamp out the pocket of resistance that I surrounded 00:47:43 kmc: congratulations, I guess 00:47:47 http://www.gnu.org/software/liquidwar6/manual/html_node/Strategy-tips.html 00:47:59 This is the most helpful page ever! 00:48:08 thanks olsner 00:48:18 Sgeo: "you're on your own, motherfucker" 00:48:43 shachaf: is there a trick that makes it easy? 00:49:01 Not especially. 01:04:02 pikhq, is SennHeiser still your recommendation? 01:09:27 seen on youtube: the new world order has apparently made america into a virtual prism 01:13:19 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:14:25 cool, cool 01:18:04 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:19:48 Sgeo: Yes. 01:20:11 Well, just ordered earbuds and headphones, so... 01:21:05 This will greatly enhance my MIDI listening experience! 01:21:50 Eh. It'll never be anything but MIDIocre. 01:22:43 HD 201 and MX 270 01:24:26 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:24:52 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:30:49 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:37:10 MX missile 01:38:49 why are computer things so bad compared to what they could be 01:38:57 why is everything bad 01:39:04 things should be good 01:39:11 shachaf: because they're built by idiots 01:39:20 clearly 01:39:24 clearly. 01:39:32 the problems are easy, it's just that other people aren't as smart as me 01:39:37 good point 01:39:45 if i designed everything then i would get everything right the first time 01:39:59 yep 01:40:01 we need more people like kmc in the world 01:40:10 Visionaries. 01:40:51 also i would use C 01:40:57 or maybe we all just need to give kmc a bunch of money and have him solve all our problems............ 01:41:01 because I would not make any mistakes and that way it would be fast 01:41:02 also make him dictator of the world 01:42:37 kmc, as dictator, what would you do to deal with the growing hunger crisis (it's a crisis in that it's bad not in that it's like rapid) in the united states 01:49:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:53:38 Everyone make some mistakes, including you too. 02:07:18 i don't make mistakes 02:22:05 Are you sure? You forgot to capitalize "I" and add a full stop. 02:23:23 yes but it was on purpose, not forgetfulness 02:25:38 Guest98034: you have forgot to fix your nick hth 02:26:38 i'm trying to 02:26:55 i always forget which channels i have to part before i can nick 02:27:15 -!- Guest98034 has changed nick to quintopia. 02:27:26 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 02:27:26 -!- quintopia has joined. 02:35:46 i didn't know you had to part any, what kind of channels are that 02:36:10 I think you cannot change your name if you are on any channels that you cannot post messages on. 02:36:52 as if parting and rejoining is less noisy... 02:37:30 Once on some other IRC server I was unable to post messages on some channel, so instead I unjoin and then change my name and then join and then unjoin and then change my name and so on; eventually they fixed it, though, so that I can post messages. They put that in there due to someone else that was using this IRC before who used my IP address. 02:40:44 zzo38: I know, I was being sarcastic 02:40:58 I make many mistakes and I pick tools that help me catch mistakes before they can do damage 02:41:03 or at least I would like to. 02:42:20 unfortunately you made the mistake of mistakenly picking tools? 02:48:44 your first mistake was making your second mistake 02:49:00 deep. 02:51:26 `addquote your first mistake was making your second mistake 02:51:33 1049) your first mistake was making your second mistake 02:52:21 that's a lotta quotes 02:52:22 `quote 1024 02:52:24 1024) i would visit elliott but i'm vegetarian 02:52:30 hmm 02:52:58 `quote 1037 02:53:00 1037) the real GNU kernel is GRUB 02:53:38 `quote 512 02:53:39 512) Isn't "strip nomic" just another word for all dating, though? 02:54:33 kmc, Kernel doesn't seem as amenable to static analysis as Racket, so how do you reconcile your liking of Kernel with your liking of static analysis? 02:55:05 Strip... nomic? 02:55:05 Saying "JIT" a lot 02:55:36 Honestly sounds lame. 02:55:42 also static analysis isn't that hard. as long as you remove environment mutability. who needs that anyway 02:55:50 Static analysis is not just about performance. 02:56:07 Assuming that's what you mean? I don't know what you mean. Or what I mean. 02:56:18 * Sgeo doesn't care about performance, but checking correctness 02:58:03 imo write a correctness jit hth 02:58:24 `quote 256 02:58:26 256) 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric. 02:58:36 shachaf: sounds like a plan 02:58:46 Recursive JITting? 02:58:52 can't tell you this code is correct until you run it 02:58:53 hth 02:59:02 it tells you that your code is broken just in time 02:59:03 sgtm 02:59:04 hth 02:59:10 hand 03:01:02 Sgeo: i don't claim Kernel is practical 03:01:09 i like it for aesthetic and theoretical reasons 03:01:22 rage. 03:01:24 i like all kinds of languages for different, even contradictory reasons 03:01:49 what about php 03:01:54 do you draw the line at self-contradictory reasons 03:01:57 i'd really like to make kernel practical. the dream 03:02:04 i don't see languages as 'must have feature X or Y', it's more about integrating the features you do have in a pleasing way 03:02:11 shachaf: so easy 03:02:35 i don't think a person has been consistent in the entirety of history so like, whatever, man, right? 03:03:02 actually people don't really have propositional beliefs anyway. imo anarchy in the hippocampus 03:03:28 Bike: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 03:03:39 kmc: yes 03:03:45 yeah that's obviously true. 03:06:58 I also like different kind of language for different reasons, although some have some stupid stuff (including PHP). 03:07:30 kmc: I really remember like, basiaclly nothing about starting with C, but it was through some online course thing (but it was really primitive because it was the 90s?) and I know like. I don't think even pointers were done, it was like. really way simpler 03:07:49 i'd like to jump on the "i have varying beliefs often backed up by reasoning" train, i think it's going places 03:07:54 though I only really infer that by like, the fact that I totally had to actually learn C when I actually had to use it for class years later <.< 03:08:14 yeah i "learned" C++ in a similar fashion 03:08:19 (my words are completely incoherent because I just woke up from a 3 hour nap) 03:08:27 throur 03:08:27 I'd ask my dad who threw me into the whole thing 03:08:30 but I doubt he'd remember 03:08:57 I think the first language I wrote anything in was either C or Logo. 03:09:03 I think I programmed in BASIC first. I still do program in BASIC sometimes, although I also program in C and various other programming languages. 03:09:15 the first language i wrote in was TI-82 BASIC 03:09:19 * shachaf ⋘³ logo hth 03:09:32 that is an absurd emoticon sir 03:10:03 good think i can't see it 03:10:07 the first actual programming class I took was in C++ and they gave us a lot of bad advice 03:10:25 kmc: could've been worse. could've been in c/c++ 03:10:28 I think the first one I was in was java 03:10:38 i did basically the same curriculum in Java the next year 03:10:50 ⋘₃ -- is that better? 03:10:52 It looks better here. 03:12:06 the first class i took was vb i think, then delphi, then java, then c 03:12:21 um 03:12:25 i forget delphi 03:12:30 how can you take a class in a language if it's not object-oriented 03:12:34 checkmate 03:12:40 shut up >: 03:13:03 Rust taking up the C niche doesn't imply unsuitability for application dev, right? 03:13:35 A language could fill up a niche that another language took, while still being suitable for things that other language wasn't, I assume 03:13:42 my high school was not object-oriented but i still graduated 5th in my class stalemate bitches 03:13:54 kmc: it's kind of amazing though like how where you start affects things 03:14:04 Sgeo: that seems logically correct yes 03:14:06 like I knew a classmate in college who started with scheme I think 03:14:17 Sgeo: it's pretty hard to draw a line between 'application' and 'systems' anyway 03:14:20 scheme is p okay 03:14:28 i started with c++ so: am i doomed 03:14:31 browsers definitely started as humdrum applications software and gradually became systems software 03:14:34 and like for me the C-style lower level stuff was relatively easy and the functional and logic programming stuff was really really hard 03:14:39 and there was no one single point where the switch happened 03:14:44 for a language used in a class i mean 03:14:45 for Rust it's mainly about caring about latency a lot 03:14:48 Bike: you started in c++ because you are doomed not the other way around hth 03:14:51 users get pissed off when their browser lags 03:14:58 shachaf: how sensible. 03:15:03 but for him the functional programming and logic stuff was amazingly easy, while he was like fiora please teach me c 03:15:28 *nod* 03:15:35 kmc: Well, there is a lot of software that you don't want to be lags 03:15:38 i took an x86 assembly class pretty early on 03:15:40 (16-bit!) 03:15:43 though he was way smarter than me either way, I mean, he basically got straight As and aced the logic class I literally had to drop... -_- 03:15:44 that was cool 03:15:59 eh grades aren't that strongly correlated with intelligence 03:16:01 functional programming (whatever that is) makes a lot more sense than c imo hth 03:16:07 i know a lot of smart people who got shitty grades for this or that reason 03:16:13 (also he was really cute, erm, I mean, <.<) 03:16:23 "you shoulda seen the cat ears on 'im" 03:16:44 kmc: well I failed one module (= 1/48 of my course) at university 03:16:54 although my other grades were high enough that I still got a first class degree 03:16:57 Bike: not like thaaat 03:17:01 also he was totally taken 03:17:07 vulpine ears huh 03:17:09 i know the type 03:17:19 BIKE 03:17:25 kmc: Well, I almost did. In some years of the high-school mathematics, I got a NM and SG. NM means a mark hasn't been assigned (like zero out of zer0), since the teacher know I am good at it despite failing to complete many assignments, and SG means you can pass regardless of your mark. 03:17:34 you're on the mark though, foxes are pretty cute as a rule 03:17:36 those are some strange grades 03:17:43 (The other class I got NM in was homeroom class.) 03:17:52 those are weird grades 03:17:57 i got some pretty strange grades back when i got grades 03:18:03 we had... A, B, C, D, F, F*, P, E, I, W and some others 03:18:07 can't you just be failed like a normal person (me <--) 03:18:14 ' ' aka 'TA failed to submit grades on time' 03:18:23 kmc: What does F* mean? 03:18:34 zero or more Fs hth 03:18:45 zzo38: it means you failed a class which was taken on a pass/fail basis, so it doesn't count against your GPA but it's still on your transcript 03:19:47 at Caltech a lot of people got bad grades due to massive undiagnosed ADHD 03:20:06 I think I got like a 3.0ish major average or something... I just was really terrible in the theory classes. I think I got a C in algorithms even though the professor was *amazing* and I loved it 03:20:23 I actually liked the np-completeness proofs, even 03:20:31 np completeness proofs are great 03:20:40 was that part of Algorithms for you? 03:20:44 kmc: O, that's what it means. I can remember in my school we had A, B, C+, C, C-, F, I, W, NM, SG, and a few others that I do not remember at this time. In typing class I got A+ although they didn't have A+ in the system so they put A instead. 03:20:50 man my algorithms class was all sorts, jerk 03:20:57 yeah, there was also a higher level course, like, a complexity theory class that was like Jedi Algorithms 03:21:02 I didn't take that one though 03:21:02 :) 03:21:12 our algorithms was um... 03:21:15 i took a higher level complexity theory class that had very little to do with useful algorithms 03:21:18 i should actually read my kolmogorov book 03:21:24 i didn't take the higher level algo class because it sounded scary as hell 03:21:26 i should take an algorithms class and complexity theory class and other things 03:21:30 big O, interesting stuff like "how do you actually prove the nlogn bound on sorts", np completeness, turing machines, computability 03:21:32 or maybe read books on the topic 03:21:41 it's all like "ok we taught you that NP hard problems are hard, now we're going to teach you all the cool approximation algorithms to do them anyway" 03:21:43 so it was kinda a lot of algorithms analysis type stuff? 03:21:45 and graph theory and things 03:21:49 ok 03:21:55 kmc: that's the scary class? more like the great class 03:22:07 W means withdrawal, I means incomplete (similar to F, although the marks you didn't earn are due to incomplete assignments or an incomplete course), NM means "no mark", SG means "standing granted" 03:22:21 man can you imagine actually being good at math 03:22:24 that would be pretty cool i think 03:22:30 he was really amazing though. like he would have a box of chocolate covered coffee beans at the front of the class when people came in 03:22:34 and for some strange reason everyone in class 03:22:36 was always awake 03:22:44 heh. 03:24:08 I was good at my math class, although because I failed to complete many of the assignments (although I got good marks on everything I did do, including all of the tests/exams, and the other assignments were mostly more of the same thing), my mark was not put into the report card, which made it NM for each term. The final mark was then made SG. 03:24:24 chocolate covered coffee beans are serious business 03:24:30 it's easy to eat a whole lot of them............ 03:24:35 memories... oh right, the AI class was really wonderful. I loved the professor for that one too, she could like explain things in a way that actually made sense and like wow 03:25:07 I also dropped one class after one week (for some reason I wasn't selecting my own classes, although I was allowed to drop classes). It was graphic arts. I could not understand what anything the teacher said meant, so I dropped the class. 03:28:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: googht). 03:48:19 One idea I have is make a SQL database of iNES mapper numbers, which you might use to decide what mapper to use with your game, or for other purposes. 03:50:28 Which Deadfish implementations are the shortest and longest ones? I think the shortest one might be the one in AWK. The longest one might be the one for the Famicom. Is there others shorter/longer than these? 03:52:14 "The hardest thing to build is a machine that needs to function perfectly without any supervision -- without the chance to make a single adjustment once it's out of your hands" 03:52:21 -- a character in The Eternal Flame 03:52:30 Is that a sciencee fiction novel 03:52:49 Yes. It's part of the Orthogonality trilogy by Greg Egan 03:52:55 What machine is it? 03:53:13 They're talking about a small spaceship, and that it has a repair crew 04:27:17 `pastequotes shachaf 04:27:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12034 04:33:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:57:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_10#Mission_highlights "A lot of people thought about the kind of people we were: 'Don't give those guys an opportunity to land, 'cause they might!' So the ascent module, the part we lifted off the lunar surface with, was short-fueled. The fuel tanks weren't full. So had we literally tried to land on the Moon, we couldn't have gotten off." 05:05:24 Are there any untyped non-strict languages for learning? 05:10:04 [eliding pointless argument about what 'untyped' means] 05:10:07 lazy racket, maybe? 05:10:44 there is some lazy stuff in SICP; I think that lazy Scheme is one of the language variants they do after the metacircular evaluator 05:11:02 What should I say instead of "untyped" so that there's no pointless argument? 05:11:14 probably nothing, pointless arguments are a fact of life 05:11:21 OK. 05:11:26 but i elided it! 05:11:28 so it's fine 05:11:40 Yes, but did you elide the metaärgument about pointless arguments? 05:11:44 I didn't actually object to your use of "untyped" 05:11:51 shachaf: I am not that powerful yet 05:12:01 Anyway I think in the places where it matters non-strictness is more sensible. 05:12:13 E.g. in the obligatory chapter about deriving Y. 05:14:43 *nod* 05:15:04 -!- asdfasd has joined. 05:15:35 a language is just conventions for maximum convenience 05:15:43 *gdi* 05:16:13 Anyway I think in places where it matters, strictness makes things way more complicated. 05:16:20 And in the places where it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. 05:16:28 `relcome asdfasd 05:16:31 ​asdfasd: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:16:42 kmc: what happened to celebrating craftsmanship 05:16:53 what about it 05:17:28 minimalism etc. 05:17:50 kmc: Should I drop some punctuation to get more minimalistic writing? 05:17:58 I've started dropping the comma after "i.e." and "e.g." 05:18:13 mm 05:18:16 a fine choice 05:18:20 Should I drop the .s too, and decide that they're words of their own? 05:18:26 Also on "etc.", etc. 05:18:39 The . after etc is really annoying because you can't end a sentence with it very well. 05:18:51 yes 05:19:29 i,e. = id est = that is something, wouldn't make sense a comma separating subject from verb 05:20:07 I don't think commas work the same way in Latin. 05:22:25 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:35:10 Someone was wondering about chipless bankswitching in NES/Famicom by using CHR address lines, but I don't think this will work. However, maybe it is possible by using the IRQ in the expansion port. 05:51:19 -!- asdfasd has changed nick to GOMADWarrior. 06:00:51 -!- Pb has joined. 06:04:47 -!- Puffball has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:20:35 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 06:32:46 "Study: Spice Acts Like Insulin, Eradicates Diabetes" 06:32:55 I didn't know insulin works by eradicating diabetes! 06:33:32 :) 06:33:55 : ) 06:34:41 yes 06:40:13 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:02:49 It seems there is not yet Deadfish in INTERCAL. 07:18:41 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:21:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:33:46 -!- rntz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:35:32 -!- coppro_ has joined. 07:38:05 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:38:11 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:38:11 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:38:23 -!- aloril_ has joined. 07:38:27 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 07:38:54 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:41:15 -!- rntz has joined. 07:46:45 -!- Ramirez57 has joined. 08:07:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:25:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:28:43 -!- nooga has joined. 08:59:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:03:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:18:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:23:14 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:49:48 -!- Ramirez57 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 09:50:01 -!- zyezhuei has joined. 09:51:42 -!- zyezhuei has quit (Client Quit). 09:53:57 `run head -n1 bin/olist 09:53:58 echo -n "$(basename "$0") $@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 09:54:15 `run sed -i '1s/ \$/${$@:+ }$/' bin/olist 09:54:18 No output. 09:54:29 "whoopse" 09:55:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:55:36 `run sed -i 's/@/1/g' bin/olist 09:55:39 No output. 09:55:57 Oh, right. 09:56:15 Though I don't quite understand this error... 09:56:28 `olist fake, sorry, this is just kind of odd 09:56:30 ​/hackenv/bin/olist: line 1: $(basename "$0")${$1:+ }$1: : bad substitution \ /hackenv/bin/olist: line 2: shachaf: command not found \ /hackenv/bin/oerjan: line 1: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 09:56:34 `help 09:56:35 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 09:56:45 What are all those As? 09:57:13 How do you revert back two revisions? 09:58:13 Oh, I get it. 09:58:26 @slap oerjan 09:58:26 * lambdabot hits oerjan with a hammer, so they breaks into a thousand pieces 09:58:26 *SMACK*, *SLAM*, take that oerjan! 09:59:05 Maybe... 09:59:08 `revert 3075 09:59:10 Done. 09:59:45 `run sed -i '1s/ \$/${@:+ }$/' bin/olist 09:59:48 No output. 10:00:00 OK, that's good. 10:00:46 Wait a minute... 10:00:53 esoteric/2013-02-06.txt:03:27:53: `run echo AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > bin/oerjan; chmod +x bin/oerjan 10:01:01 @slap shachaf 10:01:02 go slap shachaf yourself 10:01:02 * kappabot jabs shachaf with a C pointer 10:01:15 lambdabot: maybe i will 10:01:24 -!- carado has joined. 10:01:25 oerjan: Sorry for the inconvenience. 10:01:48 And possible disappointment over olist. 10:01:51 olist, more like nolist 10:02:04 `? oerjan 10:02:06 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 10:11:15 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist 10:11:24 i like how sinister that name sounds 10:11:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:22:14 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:23:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:28:56 kmc: An advantage my new /hilight is that when people spell my name "schachaf" or some such I still get highlighted. 10:29:11 shachaf: did you use a regex 10:29:21 chaf\b 10:29:29 hichaf 10:29:35 hoooooooodl 10:36:29 so what if i start talking about chaff 10:36:45 what if you do 10:39:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:47:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:00:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:04:00 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:05:44 -!- carado has joined. 11:32:03 "box" is just a lie, though. It's concrete, but it's the wrong thing. 11:32:19 It only confuses people -- and sometimes it confuses them for months or years. They think they understand but they don't. 11:32:30 I guess this is the wrong channel. 11:33:36 if the box you talk about is your matrix of solidity, this is the right channel 11:34:55 olsner: shachaf: what if i think of a box as a value continuum? 11:35:06 I think it might be the right channel... 11:36:03 what if I think of the box as an astral plane? 11:36:09 does it contain rotten apples? 11:43:26 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:44:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:44:16 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:18:41 kmc: mosh basically implements a full terminal emulator from scratch, right? 12:19:01 so you could theoretically just write something that actually renders its state to the screen and get a new terminal emulator with better unicode support than anyone else 12:21:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:21:49 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:23:35 mosh's unicode support is broken hth :'( 12:24:31 more or less broken than the alternatives? 12:25:06 The obvious alternatives in my case are ssh shachaf.net and mosh shachaf.net 12:25:11 With ssh it works. 12:25:20 (These work very differently, of course.) 12:26:05 moshachaf vs sshachaf 12:41:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:48:13 shachaf: do you think the metaphor is still useful as an introduction to functors (was the box thing about functors) 12:51:37 No, boxes are less than useless. 12:51:42 Well, the box metaphor. 12:51:46 Boxes are useful. 12:52:08 yes imo putting things in physical boxes is great 12:53:04 anyway how'd you explain functors without boxes... maybe just, they're a way of adding a "context" to a value? 12:53:30 "a value"? 12:53:51 For most functors f, a value of type f a doesn't contain any value of type a at all. 12:53:56 Or it might contain multiple ones. 12:54:03 Or it might ... 12:54:33 maybe s/value/type/ 12:54:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:55:58 I don't know what "context" means but I bet it's at least as complicated as "Functor" 12:58:56 functors are too vague to explain imo 13:00:00 imo the concept of covariance and contravariance is important hth 13:00:20 and i still haven't read enough about category theory to be able to explain haskell Functors in term of that 13:00:37 afaict Functors are endofunctors in Hask 13:00:57 (and thehyre all covariant???) 13:00:59 Functor represents Hask-* -> Hask-* (Hask-* terminology stolen from McBride so he doesn't eat me) 13:01:02 I,I as far as i category theory Functors are endofunctors in Hask 13:01:07 Contravariant is Hask-*^op -> Hask-* 13:01:28 Invariant is Hask-* x Hask-*^op -> Hask-* 13:01:30 what' Hask-* 13:01:36 s 13:01:36 what you called Hask 13:01:45 what's Hask 13:02:31 ob(Hask) = the set of Haskell types; hom_Hask(A,B) = the set of Haskell functions A -> B 13:02:43 it isn't actually a category for stupid reasons IIRC but it's close enough 13:02:54 nooodl, well the thing is that you can't have a true functor in what you usually think of in Hask 13:02:57 it's for _|_ reasons right 13:03:00 no 13:03:16 nooodl: yes 13:03:22 it's because if you have some functor f, then applying it to a type results in f a 13:03:24 you have to violate either left or right identity I think 13:03:27 probably bottom as well 13:03:29 Phantom_Hoover: you are saying incorrect things 13:03:32 but the thing i said counts too! 13:03:42 no 13:03:47 level error 13:04:00 dammit 13:04:16 what you're saying is that you can't fully model all Hask-* -> Hask-* functors as a Haskell typeclass 13:04:31 probably this is what i am saying 13:04:31 which is true I think 13:04:38 if only because you can do undecidable stuff 13:05:02 what's the difference between Hask and Hask-*, is what i'm wondering atm 13:05:04 well, it's definitely true without type families at least 13:05:16 nooodl: the difference is that conor mcbride hates people who say Hask 13:06:46 :(((( 13:10:09 hom_Hask^op(A,B) = the set of Haskell functions B -> A, right? 13:10:44 yes 13:12:09 doesn't conor mcbride hate everybody though 13:18:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:18:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:26:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:34:52 > text "λ" 13:34:52 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 13:34:53 λ 13:43:47 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:49:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:50:36 -!- carado has joined. 13:50:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:51:07 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/may/20/weekend.jonronson ronson, the GLORIOUS RETURN 13:51:47 meanwhile: wow ender's game is even more horrible than i'd realised 14:01:41 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/may/27/weekend.jonronson 14:01:48 i can't add to that one 14:04:01 but what do the croutons say about *you*, Phantom_Hoover? 14:04:23 Phantom_Hoover: this guy needs a knighthood 14:04:26 and a sainthood 14:04:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:05:06 i don't think you can get a sainthood if you're jewish 14:05:15 also i don't think you can get a knighthood if you're welsh 14:06:21 Phantom_Hoover: these injustices, too, must fall 14:07:04 if you're welsh maybe you can get an urdd marchog instead 14:07:26 maybe you can get a nddrylliog 14:09:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:12:54 i like how for ronson's book about extremists he interviewed a comically radical islamist, the guy in charge of the kkk... and ian paisley 14:15:25 i know nothing about ireland, help 14:15:48 paisley was one of the leading unionists during the troubles 14:15:57 and later first minister after the good friday agreement 14:17:01 i don't even know what the whole unionist thing is about, i'm so terrible 14:18:15 seriously 14:18:45 the unionists are the pro-uk, broadly protestant ones 14:19:02 the republicans are the pro-republic, broadly catholic ones 14:19:19 which of them were the terrorists? 14:19:23 both 14:19:33 omg complicated 14:20:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:21:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:22:59 there weren't as many bombings etc. from the unionist paramilitaries though, i don't particularly know why that was 14:24:54 maybe possibly maybe the british government didn't want bombings, and might get a bit iffed at the people who supposedly were at their side. just saying. 14:25:35 working for a union formed of mutual bombing and respect 14:25:38 the unionist paramilitaries were (officially) illegal as well 14:25:41 * oerjan assumes this is about NI, otherwise disregard 14:25:44 since when do governments shy away from using violence 14:25:58 though there was collusion between them and the security forces to some controversial degree 14:25:59 elliott: they shy away from _others_ using violence. 14:27:03 it's that whole "monopoly on violence" thing. 14:28:56 yes but again, the actual government weren't like "ok we want you to rough up the republicans a bit but no bombs, ok!" 14:30:24 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 14:31:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:32:22 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/jun/03/weekend.jonronson oh my god 14:32:45 are you still on that thing, maybe i should look at one of those links 14:33:13 they are very good 14:33:20 ideally logread and click all of them 14:33:26 does anyone know about bind mounts btw? 14:33:27 maybe olsner 14:34:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:35:35 I have used those yes... what about them? 14:36:30 olsner: why does bind mounting a file require the target path to exist 14:37:07 dunno 14:37:33 thanks. you're useless 14:37:34 :'( 14:41:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Civil_Rights_Association 14:41:18 i like how their goals just have "and nuclear disarmament" tacked on at the end 14:41:43 "yeah sure that sounds like a good idea" 14:44:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 14:52:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:53:16 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 14:58:58 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2006/jun/10/weekend.jonronson 15:01:21 wait has it always said "Out of ordinary" 15:01:25 i swear there was a "the" there 15:01:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:50 it oscillates 15:04:26 aww, iain banks died 15:04:31 indeed it does 15:04:54 Phantom_Hoover: oh jeez, already? 15:05:31 the aliens got him 15:06:11 wow, that was fast ._. 15:06:17 He announced he had cancer just 2 months ago... 15:06:22 Phantom_Hoover: do you have a citation, all i see is uncited on WP? 15:06:29 and no relevant news results, so maybe it is just vandalism 15:06:33 the citation is charles tross tweeting so 15:06:37 *charles stross 15:06:38 https://twitter.com/cstross/status/343740022924648448 15:07:02 sucks :( 15:07:12 * elliott should really get around to reading the Culture books 15:08:09 he was one of my favorite authors too... 15:08:53 i loved his books 15:09:14 i am now really regretting not doing more that one time i went to a talk thing he did 15:22:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:23:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:24:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:40:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:48:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:48:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:58:56 -!- conehead has joined. 16:30:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:32:19 The Famicom Deadfish stores the current number in decimal (using one byte for each digit), and has a 9x9 multiplication table in ROM, as well as a mod10 and div10 tables in ROM, used to implement addition. The cursor is blinking by changing the palette; the OAM is stored in ROM so it won't change the sprites. 16:33:36 The only letters in the pattern table are I D S O, and if you push any other keys it will ignore it and it won't be displayed. 16:34:08 "to the point that the most current implementation of Zapfino as of this writing, Zapfino Extra Pro, has achieved what seems to be limited sentience. " 16:34:14 http://typophile.com/node/12422 16:34:49 intelll why do you release manuals that use terminology that you never define in the manual ._. 16:36:51 Fiora: I don't know! 16:37:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:37:13 are you intel? <.< 16:37:17 Fiora: you're supposed to already know that stuff obviously 16:37:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:38:03 No, but maybe someone else might know or don't know, too. 16:40:17 they have a table showing the delays and stuff between different units on the chip and have labels like 16:40:44 INT, SSE-INT/AVX-INT, SSE-FP/AVX-FP_LOW, X87/AVX-FP_HIGH 16:40:57 they never define FP_LOW or FP_HIGH anywhere unless I am really bad at searching which I might be 16:41:06 zzo38 is Intel. in fact, zzo38 is AMD too. zzo38 is Barack Obama. 16:43:20 I am pretty sure that I am not those things. 16:43:29 I stand corrected 16:43:46 Fiora: more seriously, googling "FP_LOW FP_HIGH Intel" does seem to show other results in Intel manuals? but I may be wrong. like, "MOVSHDUP—Move Packed Single-FP High and Duplicate. ... MOVSLDUP— Move Packed Single-FP Low and Duplicate" 16:43:55 oh 16:44:00 I guess that's (Single-FP) High 16:44:05 rather than Single - (FP High) 16:44:08 so just coincidence 16:44:13 I think it's the optimization reference manual 16:44:34 it has tables of functional units and dispatch ports and execution stacks and stuff 16:45:11 maybe FP_low does bits 0-127 and FP_high takes bits 128-255 16:45:43 elliott: that's a different thing 16:45:54 there's old instructions that will do things like load a 64-bit value into the low/high half of an sse register 16:46:06 they steal all the google results ^^; 16:46:34 olsner: yeah... that feels like it could be right. but it seems kind of weird that the latency between units is delinated like that? like based on the top or bottom halves... but only for float, not for int... 16:47:32 I guess... maybe they're like in different places on the chip... 16:47:59 Why do they make it way too complicated? 16:51:25 -!- Bike has joined. 16:54:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:56:36 hmm, I think the english is not as good in this manual as in the other ones 16:58:05 the new one with the haswell stuff? 16:58:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:58:33 I guess it's probably kinda draft-ish, it feels really less detailed than the sections on previous cpus 16:58:40 actually, this one stops at Sandy Bridge, so I might have an older version 16:59:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:59:20 http://download.intel.com/products/processor/manual/325383.pdf I think this is it? 16:59:24 oops, no 16:59:27 `quote domain name 16:59:29 984) ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] Domain Name System [...] ♫ domain name system ♫ 16:59:30 (nefarious purposes.) 16:59:57 olsner: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/manuals/64-ia-32-architectures-optimization-manual.pdf I think this is it 17:00:41 the nice thing about running long compilations on your server is that you don't hear the desperate howl of the fans 17:00:52 You mean the bad thing 17:00:59 some things are really weird. like, vpblendd has inverse throughput 0.33 but none of the other blends do (o_O) 17:01:08 and they made round 2x slower I mean not that I use it but... 17:01:21 Deewiant: no way. it's like I have infinite power and it's not even breaking a sweat! 17:01:34 admittedly, I get less feedback about when it's done 17:02:43 there's actually this whole section in the manual about how to replace shuffles with blends in things like transposes which is like wow I had no idea, that's pretty cool 17:04:30 Now you can see how long the program is: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Unofficial_MagicKit_Assembler 17:14:22 um. 17:14:34 a steam-powered road vehicle just passed by my window. 17:15:14 it had a big chimney and all. 17:15:23 horseless carriages have finally reached hexham? 17:15:50 olsner: I swear to god, there is a car store called "Hexham Horseless Carriages" 17:16:01 it probably dates back to when horses still existed. 17:17:11 I think horses do still exist, although not necessarily in Hexham. 17:18:26 As mentioned in the outline history section a French artillery officer by the name of Nicholas Cugnot (1729-1804) made a steam three-wheeler intended for military use in 1769. This was arguably the first 'motor vehicle' although the small boiler could carry only enough water for a fifteen minute run and the maximum speed was about 4mph. 17:18:30 In spite of these limitations on his first road trial of the three wheeler machine, making him arguably the first motorist, M. Cugnot hit a wall, becoming the first motorist to have an accident, and after several more experiments he scored the hat trick by becoming the first person to be arrested and imprisoned for dangerous driving. 17:19:57 beautiul. 17:20:11 is there a stereotype about french drivers 17:20:29 does it just subsume into the greater whole of french terribleness 17:26:44 found this: http://satwcomic.com/driving 17:31:05 I can confirm Hexham Horseless Carriages is a shop that exists 17:31:16 Also, there's a steam rally in Corbridge or something 17:32:16 http://www.tvr-hhc.co.uk/ they have a website. hell yes 17:32:33 lol established in 1996 17:32:39 what? 17:32:56 why woud they name it that then? 17:33:12 it's, like, posh. 17:33:33 rich people don't know the word "car" 17:33:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:33:43 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMEoR2ECMAAZ2c2.jpg stupid future 17:33:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:34:42 -!- BillyZane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:46:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:47:39 -!- BillyZane has joined. 17:49:40 `WeLcOmE BillyZane 17:49:43 BiLlYzAnE: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 17:51:20 `emoclew I think we had this one 17:51:23 ​(.ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .egaP_niaM/ikiw/gro.sgnalose//:ptth :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :eno :siht :dah :ew :kniht :I 17:57:38 does anyone mind if I bring another lambdabot in here? 17:57:40 for testing. 17:58:19 I nominate oerjan to answer. 17:58:25 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:58:27 @id The more the merrier! 17:58:27 The more the merrier! 17:58:27 The more the merrier! 17:58:33 oh, we already have two 17:58:46 -!- mubot has joined. 17:58:53 mubot: @run 123 17:58:54 123 17:58:57 mubot: @run () 1 17:58:58 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> t0' with actual type `()' 17:59:02 mubot: @run myquickcheck 17:59:03 No instance for (Test.QuickCheck.Property.Testable prop0) 17:59:03 arising from a... 17:59:08 mubot: @run id 17:59:08 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (a0 -> a0)) 17:59:09 arising from a use of `M19171... 17:59:11 so far so good 17:59:11 > id 17:59:12 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (a0 -> a0)) 17:59:12 arising from a use of `M95925... 17:59:13 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 17:59:14 {()->()} 17:59:17 nice 17:59:25 @check True 17:59:25 unrecognized option `--loadfile=' 17:59:26 Usage: mueval [OPTION...] --expression E... 17:59:27 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 17:59:28 +++ OK, passed 1 tests. 17:59:31 I win!!! 18:00:02 > 'λ' 18:00:02 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:00:04 '\955' 18:00:13 oh right 18:00:15 @run 'λ' 18:00:16 Plugin `eval' failed with: mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:00:16 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:00:17 '\955' 18:00:20 nooo!! 18:00:22 ok. i shall fix 18:00:36 mubot: @quit 18:00:36 -!- mubot has quit (Client Quit). 18:00:53 surprisingly different, those bots 18:01:04 > print 18:01:05 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 18:01:05 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 18:01:05 arising from a use of ... 18:01:11 -!- mubot has joined. 18:01:16 @run 'λ' 18:01:16 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:01:17 '\955' 18:01:17 '\955' 18:01:19 :) 18:01:35 @run x 18:01:35 Not in scope: `x' 18:01:36 x 18:01:36 x 18:01:38 lambdabot: you are _so_ out of date! 18:01:56 oerjan: the order is lambdabot < kappabot < mubot in terms of age of code, I think. 18:02:02 mubot is based on the fancy new split-up git lambdabot. 18:02:08 (this means I had to patch it to get it to work.) 18:02:16 shachaf: hi, I am interested in your Pristine.hs 18:02:24 @run 1 18:02:25 @run 1 18:02:25 @run 1 18:02:25 @run 1 18:02:25 1 18:02:26 1 18:02:26 1 18:02:26 1 18:02:26 1 18:02:27 1 18:02:27 1 18:02:27 1 18:02:27 1 18:02:28 1 18:02:28 1 18:02:29 1 18:02:31 not enough of a race condition. 18:02:32 oh well 18:02:38 @seen elliott 18:02:38 You are in #esoteric.. 18:02:38 Unknown command, try @list 18:02:39 Unknown command, try @list 18:02:43 @seen oerjan 18:02:43 oerjan is in #esoteric.. 18:02:43 Unknown command, try @list 18:02:43 Unknown command, try @list 18:02:48 oerjan: can you part hth 18:02:56 >_> 18:02:57 or do I mean twh 18:03:13 -!- oerjan has left. 18:03:19 @seen oerjan 18:03:19 I saw oerjan leaving #esoteric 6s ago. 18:03:19 Unknown command, try @list 18:03:19 Unknown command, try @list 18:03:22 m etoo 18:03:24 @tell oerjan u suck 18:03:24 Consider it noted. 18:03:24 Consider it noted. 18:03:24 Consider it noted. 18:03:29 <3 18:03:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:03:50 @clear-messages 18:03:50 Messages cleared. 18:03:50 Messages cleared. 18:03:51 Messages cleared. 18:03:51 oerjan: you have mail hth 18:03:59 also 18:04:00 @list 18:04:00 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 18:04:00 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 18:04:00 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 18:04:02 @listmodules 18:04:02 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search seen slap 18:04:02 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl url version vixen where 18:04:02 activity babel base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval fact free fresh ft haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlinerc pl pointful poll pretty quote search 18:04:02 activity babel base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval fact free fresh ft haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlinerc pl pointful poll pretty quote search 18:04:02 slap source spell state system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 18:04:03 slap source spell state system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version vixen where 18:04:06 mubot: @listmodules 18:04:06 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search seen slap 18:04:06 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl url version vixen where 18:04:13 oh, I should remove vixen 18:04:15 Can you add a SQL extension into the wiki? For example if you have a article named "forty-two" and then you can write CREATE TABLE "forty-two" ("X" INTEGER, "Y" TEXT); and on other pages you can INSERT INTO "forty-two" and SELECT ... FROM "forty-two". 18:04:21 but I'd have to recompile. 18:04:26 also @djinn is broken on mine :( 18:04:28 @djinn a -> a 18:04:28 Djinn command failed: fd:10: hClose: resource vanished (Broken pipe) 18:04:28 f a = a 18:04:28 No output from Djinn; installed? 18:04:33 hm 18:04:47 mubot: @quit 18:04:47 -!- mubot has quit (Client Quit). 18:04:50 And then to make SELECT ... in order to call a template with the results of a SELECT query. 18:08:28 -!- quintopia has joined. 18:10:08 hm 18:10:21 oh 18:10:38 -!- mubot has joined. 18:10:41 mubot: @botsnack 18:10:41 :) 18:10:43 mubot: @djinn a -> a 18:10:43 f a = a 18:10:49 mubot: @listmodules 18:10:49 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search seen slap 18:10:49 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl url version where 18:11:04 mubot: @spell haeprj 18:11:05 heparin PRC hepatic paprika heroic 18:11:09 mubot: @spell frend 18:11:09 Friend fr end fr-end friend frond 18:11:11 yes 18:11:14 mubot: @quote 18:11:14 No quotes yet. 18:11:22 mubot: @pl \xs ys -> xs ++ ys 18:11:22 (++) 18:11:28 mubot: @src (++) 18:11:28 [] ++ ys = ys 18:11:28 (x:xs) ++ ys = x : (xs ++ ys) 18:11:28 -- OR 18:11:28 xs ++ ys = foldr (:) ys xs 18:11:34 mubot: @wn test 18:11:35 *** "test" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 18:11:35 test 18:11:36 n 1: trying something to find out about it; "a sample for ten 18:11:36 days free trial"; "a trial of progesterone failed to 18:11:36 relieve the pain" [syn: {trial}, {trial run}, {test}, 18:11:38 [31 @more lines] 18:11:47 mubot: @oeis 1, 2, 3, 4 18:11:56 uh oh 18:11:57 The natural numbers. Also called the whole numbers, the counting numbers or ... 18:11:59 oh good 18:12:10 mubot: @let x = 123 18:12:11 Defined. 18:12:14 mubot: @type x 18:12:14 Integer 18:12:18 oerjan: isn't it great?? 18:13:18 oerjan: I assign you to figure out more ways to test it, hth. 18:13:24 for instance you could check that @check works properly! 18:15:17 hi mubot 18:15:21 > 1 18:15:22 1 18:15:23 1 18:15:23 1 18:15:32 mubot: @run text "λ" 18:15:32 λ 18:15:50 huh, it responds to > now? 18:15:57 :t 'λ' 18:15:57 fd:9: commitBuffer: invalid argument (invalid character) 18:15:57 lexical error at character '\187' 18:15:59 lexical error at character '\187' 18:16:07 oh, I guess > is just broken in /msg 18:16:09 o well 18:17:22 i think :t and :k used to be broken in /msg too 18:18:13 @check \x y -> x+y == y+x 18:18:13 unrecognized option `--loadfile=' 18:18:13 Usage: mueval [OPTION...] --expression E... 18:18:13 No instance for (Test.QuickCheck.Arbitrary.Arbitrary a0) 18:18:13 arising from a ... 18:18:14 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 18:18:31 @check \x y -> x+y == y+(x::Int) 18:18:32 unrecognized option `--loadfile=' 18:18:32 Usage: mueval [OPTION...] --expression E... 18:18:33 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 18:18:34 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 18:18:39 botsplosion 18:18:59 kappabot: @run myquickcheck 18:19:00 Ambiguous type variable `prop0' in the constraints: 18:19:01 (GHC.Show.Show prop0... 18:19:08 shachaf: ^ kappabot's @run is impure 18:19:09 awesome 18:19:29 Does anyone actually play Liquid War online? 18:19:56 kappabot: @run print "hi" 18:19:57 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 18:19:57 arising from a use of ... 18:20:52 Sgeo: absolutely no one hth 18:21:09 :( 18:21:20 Because I would try to get Liquid War 6 working if it meant I could play against people 18:21:31 And be crushed even worse than the medium strength AI crushes me 18:21:41 (disclaimer: previous answer pulled from thin air.) 18:22:12 to be crushed like no one has been crushed before 18:27:05 I'll try to get LW6 woking 18:27:06 woking 18:27:08 working 18:29:29 imo we need some more greek letter bots 18:30:19 > Mu 3 18:30:20 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:20 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:20 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:21 Perhaps you meant `MR' (imported from ... 18:30:22 > Mu Nothing 18:30:23 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:23 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:23 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 18:30:23 Perhaps you meant `MR' (imported from ... 18:30:32 > In Nothing 18:30:32 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 18:30:33 (Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskel... 18:30:34 In Nothing 18:30:34 In Nothing 18:31:38 -!- sacje has joined. 18:31:39 kappabot: @help nick 18:31:39 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 18:31:43 Aw. 18:31:56 kappabot: @nick deltabot 18:31:57 Maybe you meant: dice dict 18:32:16 Sounds like I've been deltabot with some missing functionality. 18:49:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:50:10 http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/civil-disobedience-on-a-turkish-game-show/ 18:50:10 Title: Civil Disobedience on a Turkish Game Show - NYTimes.com, http://tinyurl.com/meafb9f 18:50:21 mubot: help. 18:50:31 shachaf: How did you disable that in kappabot? 18:50:36 I know goodfellow has it 18:50:53 I disabled it by doing nothing. hth 18:51:26 no url title things here huh 18:52:39 no because they're annoying 18:52:41 no url title things here 18:53:57 i will track down what is doing it 18:55:09 mubot: @quit 18:55:09 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 18:56:01 @url-on 18:56:01 Unknown command, try @list 18:56:02 Unknown command, try @list 18:56:03 ok. 18:56:23 "HaskellIrcPastePage", -- Ignore paste page 18:56:23 "title of that page", -- Ignore others like the old me 18:56:27 this plugin is lol 18:57:56 I wonder if I can fix :t not working with Unicode 18:58:15 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:58:25 -- Rather than use subRegex, which is new to 6.4, we can remove comments 18:58:26 -- old skool style. 18:58:51 shachaf: do you have any idea why :t fails at unicode 18:59:02 kappabot: @type 'λ' 18:59:03 lexical error at character '\187' 18:59:20 because it goes via completely different mechanism from > 18:59:33 :t '\187' 18:59:35 Char 18:59:35 Char 18:59:47 @type '\187' 18:59:48 Char 18:59:48 Char 19:00:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:01:20 @numberwang 3 19:01:20 Unknown command, try @list 19:01:20 Unknown command, try @list 19:09:02 -!- mubot has joined. 19:09:08 http://google.com/ 19:09:10 good 19:10:25 shachaf: challenge: figure out why mubot's username is what it is 19:11:13 is it because mu is on the other side of lambda 19:11:28 no 19:11:31 I mean the *username* 19:11:32 not the nickname 19:11:48 Oh. 19:15:26 according to today's news, someone's made a car "for young people who can't drive but are on the internet all the time" 19:16:04 > text "a\rb" 19:16:04 ab 19:16:05 ab 19:16:05 ab 19:16:09 @@ @text "a\rb" 19:16:10 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "text" 19:16:10 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "text" 19:16:10 Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "text" 19:16:13 @@ @run text "a\rb" 19:16:14 ab 19:16:15 ab 19:16:15 ab 19:16:21 @@ @type (@run text "a\rb") 19:16:22 Not in scope: `a' 19:16:22 Not in scope: `b' 19:16:23 The function `a' is applied to one argument, 19:16:23 The function `a' is applied to one argument, 19:16:23 but its type `Expr' has none 19:16:23 In the expression: a b 19:16:23 but its type `Expr' has none 19:16:23 In the expression: a b 19:16:27 awesome 19:16:30 @type "hi" 19:16:31 [Char] 19:16:31 [Char] 19:16:31 [Char] 19:16:34 @@ @type (@run text "123\r:q") 19:16:35 Not in scope: `q' 19:16:36 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' with actual type `Expr' 19:16:36 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' with actual type `Expr' 19:16:36 In the second argument of `(:)', namely `q' 19:16:36 In the expression: 123 : q 19:16:36 In the second argument of `(:)', namely `q' 19:16:36 In the expression: 123 : q 19:16:38 ... 19:16:46 why do we have three lambdabots in the channel 19:16:47 shachaf: looks like it gets treated as whitespace 19:16:49 i'm glad we have three bots for this now 19:17:00 @karma elliott 19:17:00 elliott has a karma of 0 19:17:00 elliott has a karma of 42 19:17:00 elliott has a karma of 1 19:17:04 oh hm 19:17:06 maybe mine breaks more 19:17:08 whoa 19:17:10 since when do i have 42 karma 19:17:17 @@ @type (@run text "123\r4") 19:17:18 (Num (a -> t), Num a) => t 19:17:19 Num t => t 19:17:19 forall t. Num t => t 19:17:24 heh 19:17:28 kappabot: @run 123 4 19:17:29 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 19:17:30 arising from the ambiguity chec... 19:17:31 there are 21 more greek letters that don't have bots yet, get cracking 19:17:32 ?! 19:17:32 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 19:17:32 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 19:17:32 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 19:17:45 maybe he fucking didn't, bots, maybe he fucking didn't 19:17:46 elliott, NumInstances? 19:17:59 kappabot: @type views 19:17:59 Taneb: look at the :t output 19:18:00 forall (p :: * -> * -> *) s (m :: * -> *) r a. (MonadReader s m, Profunctor p) => Overloading p (->) (Accessor r) s s a a -> p a r -> m r 19:18:02 and the @run output 19:18:21 mubot: @quit 19:18:21 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 19:18:26 elliott, I'd say that's reasonably consistent? 19:18:41 20:17:19 forall t. Num t => t 19:18:43 20:17:29 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 19:18:43 help whats this mubot 19:18:49 Oh, kappabot 19:20:46 clearly we need a deadfish bot 19:28:55 what for 19:31:18 -!- mubot has joined. 19:31:37 @undefine 19:31:37 Undefined. 19:31:40 mubot: @run 3 19:31:41 3 19:31:42 ok 19:31:56 Thanks for messing up L.hs. 19:32:11 you can't seriously expect things in L.hs to stay there 19:32:30 Well, I could before you @undefined. 19:32:37 kappabot: @listchans 19:32:37 #esoteric weird# 19:32:37 Nothing here 19:32:43 mubot: @listchans 19:32:43 #esoteric weird# 19:32:43 Nothing here 19:32:53 OK, time to find out what on earth weird is. 19:33:19 loc = case aloc of [] -> Nick "freenode" "weird#" 19:33:22 _ -> Nick (server msg) (tail aloc) 19:33:23 wtf. 19:35:06 ?! 19:35:06 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 19:35:06 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 19:35:06 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 19:35:19 kappabot: @part #esoteric 19:35:19 -!- kappabot has left. 19:35:24 https://twitter.com/PRISM_NSA oh gosh this is great 19:35:49 "Memo to Becky Schultz of Clearwater, FL: our data prove that your younger brother is not the most annoying person in the universe" 19:35:57 "Suggestions please: what font should we use for our now spin-off, http://snapchatbackup.com ? #PRISM20%TimeProjects" 19:36:20 "Second worst shift at #PRISM: reading YouTube comments, Worst shift at #PRISM: 4Chan duty" 19:36:59 heh 19:38:35 "We are PRISM. We are actually anonymous. We are actually legion. We really, really do not forget. Accept us." 19:38:38 this twitter 19:39:31 http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1fzgxy/the_largest_free_thought_and_atheist_forum_in_the/ 19:39:36 there is not enough lol in the world 19:39:59 Phantom_Hoover: hahahahaha 19:40:08 ahahahahahahahahaha 19:40:23 i took a quick peek to point and laugh and apparently they're in the middle of a civil war 19:40:55 from scrolling down it looks like this is because they removed comment images or something 19:40:58 http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1fz8o0/how_ratheism_lost_the_gay_community/ 19:41:05 oh or they banned image posts 19:41:06 or something 19:41:08 this is amazing 19:41:11 keeping forums on-topic: alienating the gay community 19:41:42 Where was 4-D scrabble from the FRC advertised? 19:41:42 they banned all non-self posts maybe? 19:42:01 no, it's just imagelinks 19:42:04 something about memes? 19:42:05 Phantom_Hoover, they banned image posts, I think links that aren't images still work. So I guess it's manual removal of bad posts 19:42:06 i heard it's fascist 19:42:07 oh wow someone is trying to make /r/atheism not a total joke? 19:42:23 kmc, because some mods got the founder of /r/atheism removed 19:42:29 For inactivity 19:42:37 what's going on 19:42:41 of course sgeo knows about this already 19:42:42 did they ban pictures 19:42:46 r atheism should just die, that would be good 19:43:06 Bike: how does it feel to oppress free thought 19:43:16 pretty good 19:44:02 I think I'm mentally readnig this entire twitter in glados's voice 19:44:28 I blame oerjan for getting me into nomics in the first place 19:44:41 Well, maybe not oerjan, but whoever put up a thing on their page about 4-D scrabble 19:45:52 Bike: how will i turn pictures of neil degrasse tyson into karma now 19:45:57 i had a great system 19:45:58 /r/space 19:46:01 why you gotta go and ruin it 19:46:23 /r/PicturesOfNeilDegrasseTyson 19:46:31 r/mildlyinteresting is good 19:46:36 just kill all of reddit except that 19:46:42 not for fans of neil degrasse tyson, just for fans of pictures of neil degrasse tyson 19:46:44 bye 19:46:47 (is /r/space still a sagan-tyson circlejerk? i hope you appreciate that i am not up to date) 19:47:08 Phantom_Hoover: until just now i have never been to /r/space 19:47:10 Fiora: the prism thing is too depressing for me to find funny, i think >_> 19:47:27 Perhaps it's too funny for Fiora to find depressing. 19:47:33 perhaps. 19:47:38 [picture of space] "fuck yeah science!" [does not understand first thing about science] 19:47:53 perhaps it's too depressing /not/ to find funny! 19:48:08 [picture of grad student covered in potato chips and ripped up grant proposals] fuck yeah science! 19:48:33 http://gawker.com/the-nsa-sent-a-takedown-notice-over-my-custom-prism-log-512085836 19:48:39 did anyone see maddox's hilarious anti-fuck-yeah-science rant 19:48:46 it was missing the point writ large 19:48:49 kmc: hahaha 19:49:02 Bike: yeah that's more like it 19:49:20 picture of grad student poking rats with a stick for 100 hours in a row 19:49:42 dream job 19:49:46 senior rat-poker 19:49:48 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10042004 19:50:00 junior rat-poker only does it for 50 hours 19:50:02 not as good 19:50:05 picture of grad student reading "the view from the left" for thirty hours straight 19:50:14 poking at emacs ineffectually 19:51:05 me 19:51:08 except I don't get money for it 19:51:11 inb4 "neither do grad students" 19:51:28 you're not paying money for it though 19:52:14 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:52:34 -!- myname has joined. 19:52:54 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:52:55 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:53:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:53:21 http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1fza8s/the_arguments_in_favor_of_the_new_moderation/ 19:53:21 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 19:53:30 "If 2 million people want to subscribe to /r/trueathiesm, then they will. Until then, r/trueatheism is not entitled to the 2 million subscriptions that r/atheism acquired fairly in the free market." 19:53:37 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:53:46 very good point 19:53:52 THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE FREE REDDITOR 19:53:56 Bike: I guess it's.... it's kind of depressing but like at this point it kind of feels like the only way to cope is gallows humor -_- 19:53:58 neither do grad students 19:54:18 Fiora: we could do like the turks and make video game references as we get shot 19:54:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:54:28 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:54:41 Bike: o_O? 19:54:41 do like the turks and be mechanical 19:55:15 Fiora: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18pu5c73wlb0ajpg/ku-xlarge.jpg "next is tanks" 19:55:28 That's awful 19:55:40 http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18pu5omzy3088jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg 19:55:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 19:56:01 bye ph 19:56:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:56:32 hi ph 19:56:44 also http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18pu9o8gv7pumjpg/ku-medium.jpg because apparently someone stole a bulldozer and fucked up some riot tanks 19:57:03 hi i've invented a new brainfuck deriv-- nah i've done that already 19:57:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:58:07 you killed taneb 19:58:29 bye taneb 19:58:41 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:00:35 @check \c -> c == 'q' 20:00:37 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 20:00:39 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:00:44 mubot: wat 20:00:49 oh, that mueval bug? 20:00:50 @check \c -> c == 'q' 20:00:51 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 20:00:53 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test and 1 shrink): 20:00:53 'a' 20:01:10 @check \c -> c == LT 20:01:12 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 20:01:13 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 3 tests and 1 shrink): 20:01:13 EQ 20:01:18 ok. 20:01:21 mubot: @run print 20:01:22 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) arising from a use of `e_1' 20:01:22 The type va... 20:01:27 mubot: @run putStrLn 20:01:28 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 20:01:28 (GHC.Base.String -> GHC.... 20:01:36 :t print 20:01:37 Show a => a -> IO () 20:01:38 Show a => a -> IO () 20:01:41 I don't understand 20:01:45 why would it want a show instance for a? 20:01:49 does it not have extended defaulting? 20:01:54 mubot: @run undefined 20:01:54 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 20:01:54 arising from a use of `M194199338.sho... 20:01:57 huh 20:02:21 shachaf: any idea what's up here? 20:02:24 can kappabot rejoin for tests? 20:02:27 Where? 20:02:31 Gopher it. 20:02:44 I bet you don't have ExtendedDefaulting on? 20:02:49 -!- kappabot has joined. 20:02:53 shachaf: right, I don't -- but do you? if so where 20:02:59 not in L.hs, looks like 20:03:04 kappabot: @run undefined 20:03:06 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:03:07 Um, mueval thing? 20:03:09 kappabot: @run print 20:03:10 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 20:03:10 arising from a use of ... 20:03:29 How is mueval working for you, anyway? 20:04:26 Seems OK. 20:04:29 Or what do you mean? 20:04:49 Well, its UTF-8 was broken for me under 7.4. 20:04:51 I had to patch it. 20:04:54 It worked for me. 20:04:56 mubot: @quit 20:04:56 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 20:05:10 -!- mubot has joined. 20:05:11 mubot: @run undefined 20:05:12 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:05:15 mubot: @run print 20:05:15 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) arising from a use of `e_1' 20:05:15 The type va... 20:05:24 mubot: @run putStrLn 20:05:25 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 20:05:25 (GHC.Base.String -> GHC.... 20:05:29 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:05:35 @run () 20:05:36 () 20:05:36 () 20:05:37 () 20:05:37 I like how it depends on show but doesn't use it 20:05:52 ? 20:05:57 yeah, we totally need more bots here 20:08:00 mubot: @run 3 20:08:01 3 20:08:03 mubot: @run print 20:08:04 <() -> IO ()> 20:08:07 good 20:08:44 kappabot: @run print 20:08:45 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 20:08:46 arising from a use of ... 20:08:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:08:54 lambdabot: @run print 20:08:55 *Exception: show: No overloading for function 20:09:03 shachaf: add a show instance for IO plz thx 20:09:06 (or just "import ShowFun") 20:09:17 like like NoFun 20:09:43 shachaf: does kapapbot use SSL? 20:09:57 No. 20:12:08 WTF 20:12:27 SAPERLIPOPELEPET is an actual word 20:12:33 (In French, but still) 20:13:22 shachaf: it could! 20:13:27 I suspect there is no point though 20:13:34 well 20:13:37 Well, it does use *my* Freenode password. 20:13:40 I guess lambdabot's password is fairly valuable 20:13:46 To be fair, my IRC client also doesn't. 20:14:01 * elliott uses fancy SASL authentication 20:14:48 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:14:48 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 20:14:48 -!- kallisti has joined. 20:15:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:17:37 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:20:28 kappabot: :t (++) 20:20:30 kappabot: @type (++) 20:20:31 forall a. [a] -> [a] -> [a] 20:20:42 mubot: :t foldr 20:20:47 mubot: @type foldr 20:20:48 (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b 20:20:48 mubot: @type foldMap 20:20:49 Not in scope: `foldMap' 20:20:49 Perhaps you meant one of these: 20:20:49 `Data.Foldable.foldMap' (imported from Data.Foldable), 20:20:52 mubot: @type F.foldMap 20:20:52 Couldn't find qualified module. 20:20:53 :/ 20:23:09 mubot: @listmodules 20:23:09 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search seen slap 20:23:09 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 20:24:27 mubot: @help activity 20:24:27 activity seconds. Find out where/how much the bot is being used 20:24:30 mubot: @activity 20:24:30 3*total 3*#esoteric 20:24:34 kappabot: @activity 20:24:34 0*total 20:24:36 lambdabot: @activity 20:24:36 1*total 1*#haskell-blah 20:24:43 shachaf: did you know this command existed? 20:24:49 Yep. 20:25:05 I wonder if lambdabot should really be running it. 20:25:07 SAPERLIPOPELEPET is an actual word <-- please read more carefully hth 20:25:12 seems like an undesirable infoleak 20:26:11 @activity-full 20:26:11 Not enough privileges 20:26:11 Not enough privileges 20:26:11 0*total 20:26:15 oh no 20:26:22 imo @admin + me 20:26:29 I think not 20:26:50 mubot: @faq 20:26:50 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 20:26:55 mubot........................................... 20:27:14 oerjan, oh 20:27:15 Showing results for SAPERLIPOPETTE 20:27:15 Search instead for SAPERLIPOPELEPET 20:27:18 -!- Bike has joined. 20:28:36 _ -> "I'm sorry Dave, I'm affraid I don't know that command" 20:28:39 I'm affraid too. 20:29:17 mubot: @run N 'a' 20:29:18 Not in scope: data constructor `N' 20:29:19 mubot: @quit 20:29:20 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 20:29:22 h8r 20:29:29 -!- mubot has joined. 20:29:37 @faq 20:29:37 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 20:29:37 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 20:29:37 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 20:29:41 Hmph. 20:29:46 mubot, @SAPERLIPOPELEPET 20:29:46 Unknown command, try @list 20:29:46 that's pretty frequent 20:29:50 shachaf: I went to fix @faq 20:29:55 shachaf: but then I also found myself adding @get-shachaf 20:30:00 @get-shachaf 20:30:00 Unknown command, try @list 20:30:00 Unknown command, try @list 20:30:00 Unknown command, try @list 20:30:01 and decided it would be best to quit while I was ahead 20:30:10 who wants to ?where ?where 20:30:26 I should fix that loop 20:30:31 in fact shachaf, can you try it out? 20:30:33 no don t do it 20:30:34 maybe it is fixed already 20:30:37 ?where ?where 20:30:37 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:37 ?where ?where 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:38 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:38 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:38 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:38 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:38 ?where ?where 20:30:39 ?where ?where 20:30:39 ?where ?where 20:30:39 ?where ?where 20:30:39 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:40 ?where ?where 20:30:40 ?where ?where 20:30:41 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:42 ?where ?where 20:30:42 ?where ?where 20:30:43 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:44 ?where ?where 20:30:44 ?where ?where 20:30:44 good decision 20:30:45 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:47 kappabot: @part #esoteric 20:30:47 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:48 -!- kappabot has left. 20:30:49 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:51 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:54 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:55 I know nothing about ?where. 20:30:56 me 20:30:57 Plugin `where' failed with: <> 20:30:59 Plugin `where' failed with: <> 20:31:06 elliott: hth. 20:31:17 21:30:44 !lindbohm.freenode.net *** Message to #esoteric throttled due to flooding 20:31:19 help 20:31:21 i'm being oppressed for running mubot 20:32:01 oerjan: can you test @unlambda 20:32:04 mubot: @free id 20:32:05 f . id = id . f 20:32:52 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:33:03 @botsnack 20:33:03 :) 20:33:03 :) 20:33:04 @free unsafeCoerce 20:33:05 Extra stuff at end of line in retrieved type "Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce'\n" 20:33:05 Extra stuff at end of line in retrieved type "Not in scope: `unsafeCoerce'\n\n" 20:33:11 @free unsafeCoerce :: a -> b 20:33:11 g . unsafeCoerce = unsafeCoerce . f 20:33:11 nice 20:33:12 g . unsafeCoerce = unsafeCoerce . f 20:33:20 wow nice theorem 20:33:25 unsafeCoerce is v. powerful 20:33:48 @free safeCoerce :: a -> () 20:33:48 safeCoerce = safeCoerce . f 20:33:48 safeCoerce = safeCoerce . f 20:33:55 @unlambda ```.N.o..i 20:33:55 No. 20:33:55 No. 20:33:59 @free help :: () -> a 20:33:59 f . help = help 20:33:59 f . help = help 20:34:11 @free undefined 20:34:12 f undefined = undefined 20:34:12 f undefined = undefined 20:34:16 haha 20:34:19 nice free theorem 20:34:46 oerjan: ty tdh 20:35:08 that didn't help? 20:35:12 i heard oerjan wrote the @unlambda interpreter........................................................ 20:35:20 oerjan: that DID help 20:35:29 oerjan: negativity free yourself etc 20:35:29 shachaf: it may descend from one i wrote, yes 20:35:40 apparently gwern uploaded oerjan's http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unlambda 20:35:58 and dons edited it? 20:36:00 maybe for compatibility 20:37:10 i am pretty sure there were other unlambda interpreters in haskell when i wrote mine, though 20:37:35 shachaf: huh, we have Is in lambdabot now? 20:38:39 Yep, I bugged Cale to add it. 20:39:31 I was trying to do something with sequent logic once, I made up something, and then from what I made seems unable to make (a |- a) although I was able to make ((a -> b) |- (a -> b)). 20:52:17 kappabot @hi 20:52:22 kappabot, @hi 20:52:25 Oops. 20:52:27 lambdabot @hi 20:52:29 lambdabot, @hi 20:52:37 lambdabot: @hi 20:52:39 help 20:52:48 lambdabot: @bot 20:52:48 :) 20:52:50 lambdabot, @bot 20:52:50 :) 20:52:52 lambdabot @bot 20:52:53 OK. 20:57:55 so apparently the PRISM leaker is a ron paul supporter. where's your god now leftists 20:58:46 that sounds like the least surprising thing ever 20:59:10 I'm now imagining the NSA doing a paranoid sweep to find every employee who's ever posted pro-ron-paul things and fire them 20:59:18 heh 20:59:26 ... with prism 20:59:27 we know his name though, and he doesn't work for them any more, so. 20:59:38 well, it's not like the NSA would want a ron paul supporter anyway, most likely. 20:59:48 he was a contractor 21:00:27 livin' large in HK 21:04:05 Huh. The FRC taught me a bit of history, that I had previously assumed was fictitious 21:04:14 ? 21:04:15 "In foggy London he succeeds in convincing the brothers (who in this 21:04:15 timeline have Japanese ancestors!) to include in the statutes of the 21:04:15 bank, that they will never hire a certain Nick Leeson. More than 200 21:04:15 years later, the latter does not get a job with Baring's. 21:04:15 Consequently he does not have the occasion to swindle the bank out of 21:04:16 the 1000 million dollars that were subsequently used to finance the Time 21:04:18 Police." 21:04:23 grah 21:04:27 That was a bad idea' 21:04:46 There really was a Nick Leeson at Baring's Bank 21:07:36 did he swindle a billion dollars? 21:07:56 -!- carado has quit (Read error: No route to host). 21:08:37 He did something criminal 21:08:57 But I think it was more gambling with the bank's money than actually stealing it 21:09:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson 21:09:43 -!- carado has joined. 21:10:29 oh, i've heard of this guy. 21:12:49 (what's the frc/do i want to know) 21:13:00 Phantom_Hoover: fantasy rules committee 21:13:08 nomic-like game played since the stone age 21:13:13 oerjan played in it once upon a time 21:14:49 i saved it from the mammoths 21:15:12 http://sir-toby.com/nomic-archives/frc/ 21:15:15 Classic rounds 21:15:49 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:17:38 oh apparently i was the judge for that 4d scrabble round 21:20:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:22:40 oh yeah I remember that one 21:22:51 mubot: @quit 21:22:51 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 21:22:56 saperlipopelipet 21:23:03 -!- mubot has joined. 21:23:07 > 2 21:23:08 2 21:23:08 2 21:23:20 *lepet 21:23:30 -!- jago25_98 has joined. 21:23:38 indeed 21:24:22 -!- Koen__ has changed nick to Koen_. 21:24:56 mubot: @quit 21:24:56 -!- mubot has quit (Client Quit). 21:25:07 where's kappabot?!? 21:25:08 -!- mubot has joined. 21:26:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:26:55 kmc: shachaf killed it 21:30:56 mubot: @quit 21:30:56 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 21:31:06 -!- mubot has joined. 21:31:15 kmc: challenge: figure out why mubot's username is what it is 21:31:16 (I know why) 21:31:59 is it the least fixed bot 21:32:04 oh username not nick 21:37:35 right username 21:38:30 The FRC once got me back into Haskell 21:38:37 Don't remember when that was 21:38:48 But I wrote a short little FLogic-ish thing 21:39:19 is it short for Debian-Exim? 21:39:33 kmc: yes 21:39:36 mubot: @quit 21:39:36 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 21:39:53 -!- mubot has joined. 21:40:14 is it just a useful 'nobody' user? 21:40:26 oh does debian have a fake inetd that responds with that? 21:40:36 kmc: nope, nope 21:40:37 identd* 21:40:40 whateverthefuckd 21:40:50 oh well I don't know then 21:41:02 it's in a chroot 21:41:11 the UID it runs as in the chroot happens to overlap with the UID of Debian-exim in the outer system 21:41:16 and the identd runs outside of the chroot 21:41:30 this also means "ps" and "top" think that Debian-exim is running it 21:41:52 oh fun 21:41:53 why a chroot 21:43:08 -!- jago25_98 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:44:17 kmc: well, have you ever read lambdabot's source coe 21:44:18 *code 21:44:29 ":t" works by running yr input thru a regexp and piping it to ghci 21:44:35 not even a sandboxed ghci 21:44:38 what regexp 21:44:43 -!- mubot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:56 hey it's not just a regexp 21:45:04 Bike: actually it's a recursive function because the regexp function doesn't work in GHC <6.4 21:45:09 note: GHC 6.4 was released like a hundred years ago 21:45:15 ok that sounds good 21:45:16 stripComments ('\n':_) = [] -- drop any newwline and rest. *security* 21:45:21 stripComments ('\n':_) = [] -- drop any newwline and rest. *security* 21:45:22 *security* 21:45:23 good timing 21:45:25 wait is 21:45:31 does it say "security" in the comment 21:45:34 yes 21:45:35 yes 21:45:47 it's where the security goes 21:45:49 that's how programs work 21:45:54 you write them and save a little bit left for the security 21:48:45 -!- Lumpio_ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 21:53:23 elliott: vanilla Linux chroots are shit for security 21:53:26 better than nothing I suppose 21:59:49 huh, apparently they still use whale oil in soace 21:59:51 *space 22:00:48 we're whalers on the moon, we carry a harpoon 22:01:38 kmc: yeah I know 22:01:41 kmc: well I don't know the details 22:01:45 there aren't any whales in space so we have to bring whale oil from earth, obviously 22:01:50 is it really so bad without a root escalation vuln? 22:02:27 elliott: these days you have to run a vm inside a vm to get any security 22:02:46 like, the security hole I anticipate is on the order of "you get to give input, most likely only one line, to GHCi" 22:03:06 well there are lots of ways for a process in a chroot to mess with processes outside a chroot 22:03:09 ptrace etc 22:03:15 I do have /proc mounted 22:03:17 which worries me a bit 22:03:21 but I don't know how much /proc leaks to another user 22:03:52 kmc: also, I won't die if someone escapes the chroot, they'll end up as an unprivileged user 22:04:06 at worst they'll read private stuff in my $HOME, which I should probably make not world-readable 22:04:15 admittedly if they escape it they probably have a root escalation vuln 22:05:45 kmc: anyway what is your recommendation? run the whole thing in UMLBox? 22:06:57 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:07:46 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:07:52 my recommendation is to make yourself fully aware of the risks and then not care about them 22:07:55 hth 22:08:44 an easier way is to skip directly to not caring 22:08:49 -!- Bike has joined. 22:08:58 those are both p. good recommendations 22:08:58 as an added bonus, that's usually the state you start out in 22:09:00 olsner, olsner, olsner 22:09:06 there's a way you go about these things 22:09:08 elliott: UMLBox is cool but UML scares me a bit because it's not used much anymore 22:09:50 elliott: grsec kernels have enhanced chroots, and there's also the 'namespaces' stuff in Linux (user namespacess, proecess namespacess, etc), and there's http://lxc.sourceforge.net/ and http://openvz.org/Main_Page and such 22:09:56 or you could use "real" virtualization 22:10:04 i don't know the area well enough to recommend one over another 22:10:07 but those are some options 22:10:24 "real" virtualization will protect you from root escalation vulnerabilities, which are common in Linux 22:10:34 it doesn't protect you from hypervisor exploits of course, but \rainbow{defense in depth} 22:11:52 kmc: these sound like a lot of work 22:11:58 how about I just ask jesus to not let it go wrong 22:12:14 i mean, theoretically this software is meant to be secure enough to run as-is 22:12:23 i just don't trust that half of it wasn't written by a complete bozo 22:12:49 yay, my time spent convincing elliott not to trust lambdabot was useful 22:13:33 useful how exactly? now he's wasting time doing all this security thinking 22:14:12 i can't see "defense in depth" without thinking of maginot. is this bad y/n 22:14:18 well my goal is to waste time 22:14:21 Bike: / 22:14:27 oh 22:14:36 I wonder when I'll start having nostalgia for Cablevision's offices 22:14:45 did you quit 22:15:18 no 22:15:28 then how... what... 22:15:30 oh 22:15:32 did you get fired 22:15:34 No 22:15:41 ok i return to how / what 22:15:43 He's just thinking ahead. 22:15:53 In the future one of those two will presumably happen, unless I spend my entire life working there 22:16:09 well Doneike 22:16:14 The company could also be destroyed. 22:17:41 Bike: not sure how much depth you had in mind, but the maginot line was "20 to 25 km" deep according to wikipedia 22:17:59 how deep are hypervisors kmc 22:18:07 Things that I do now, in the present day, will eventually become nostalgic for me 22:18:20 (then again, leaving lots of other options around, such as "take the long way around, attack anyway") 22:18:21 Assuming I don't die in the near future 22:18:30 or you could be brain damaged. 22:18:41 Or you could just not be nostalgic for it. 22:18:41 also: i have sometimes done things and do not feel nostalgic about them. 'what gives' 22:18:51 Bike: wow "r u a freak" 22:18:56 :( 22:19:07 @hug Bike 22:19:07 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 22:19:22 wow our lambdabottage is dangerously low 22:19:35 -!- kappabot has joined. 22:19:39 there's a way you go about these things <-- i surely thought this was a quote (from "yes, prime minister" perhaps?) but i cannot find it 22:19:43 what if sgeo stops being nostalgic about everything and he gets nostalgic about the nostalgia 22:20:02 hypervisors seem more fiddly to get right than the normal memory protection and task isolation stuff that general OSes try so hard to get right 22:20:21 oerjan: Hmm, I didn't think of it as a quote, but the general idea could easily be derived from Yes, (Prime )?Minister 22:20:48 The wheels are in motion. 22:22:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:22:46 -!- mubot has joined. 22:22:50 mubot: hello! 22:22:57 > undefined 22:22:57 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 22:22:58 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 22:22:58 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 22:22:59 good 22:23:37 > fix id 22:23:40 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:23:40 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:23:52 thread killed 22:24:05 lambdabot: hey get in line! 22:26:09 @listchans 22:26:09 #esoteric #mubot 22:26:09 ##crypto ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##unavailable ##villagegreen #agda #codez #darcs #diagrams #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs # 22:26:09 Nothing here 22:26:09 #esoteric weird# 22:26:09 haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game #haskell-gsoc #haskell-in-depth #haskell-lens #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz # 22:26:09 haskell.de #haskell.dut #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #ledger #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix # 22:26:09 unicycling #xmonad #yi weird# 22:26:09 Nothing here 22:26:13 mubot: @listchans 22:26:13 #esoteric #mubot 22:26:14 Nothing here 22:26:14 good 22:26:53 #unicycling? i feel betrayed 22:28:52 oerjan: oh man good old yes minister 22:29:00 mubot: @fortune 22:29:00 I've got a card in my hole. 22:29:03 mubot: @yow 22:29:03 And furthermore, my bowling average is unimpeachable!!! 22:30:26 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 22:30:36 -!- mubot has joined. 22:31:02 @run 2 22:31:03 2 22:31:03 2 22:31:04 > 2 22:31:04 2 22:31:04 2 22:31:05 can't find file: L.hs 22:31:05 2 22:31:07 > 3 22:31:08 3 22:31:08 3 22:31:08 3 22:32:53 @asdf 22:32:54 Who should I ask? 22:32:54 Plugin `tell' failed with: Prelude.head: empty list 22:32:54 Plugin `tell' failed with: Prelude.head: empty list 22:33:04 ...wat 22:33:07 #unicycling? i feel betrayed 22:33:11 @thisistotalgibbeish 22:33:11 Unknown command, try @list 22:33:11 Unknown command, try @list 22:33:11 Unknown command, try @list 22:33:12 wait 22:33:13 Bike: hi 22:33:16 imagine that i said the other thing 22:33:19 Anyone want to @list ? 22:33:20 the one that i meant to say 22:33:23 which other thing 22:33:26 ?where ?where 22:33:26 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:26 ?where ?where 22:33:26 ?where ?where 22:33:26 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:26 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:27 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:27 ?where ?where 22:33:28 ?where ?where 22:33:28 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:28 ?where ?where 22:33:28 ?where ?where 22:33:30 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:30 ?where ?where 22:33:30 ?where ?where 22:33:32 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:34 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:34 oh 22:33:36 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:38 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:40 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:42 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:44 I know nothing about ?where. 22:33:46 Plugin `where' failed with: <> 22:33:54 fyi when you do that freenode drops my messages 22:33:58 as in my personal ones 22:33:58 shachaf: i got to see the new version recently. felt nostalgic for the old one. the new sir Humphrey is so unsympathetic... 22:33:59 i thought you fixed it sorry 22:34:04 it's not even a bug in my bot! 22:34:07 it's the other two bots 22:34:22 Bots are supposed to notice instead of msg when replying, right? 22:34:22 they're like practically thes ame 22:34:31 Sgeo: yeah but nobody does that ever 22:34:44 preflex does it but only in some channels 22:36:23 mubot: ?where+ ?where ?where ?where 22:36:24 Nice! 22:36:26 hth! 22:36:33 * oerjan cackles madly 22:36:39 mubot: ?where+ ?where no ?where 22:36:39 Nice! 22:36:42 nice 22:37:04 elliott: hey what do you have against exponential blowup you scounderl 22:37:09 *scoundrel 22:37:10 scounderl 22:37:22 i don't think there's anything exponential about it hth 22:37:26 maybe there is 22:37:57 elliott: with 3 bots there is hth 22:40:00 also why does it drop _your_ messages 22:40:07 same connection probably 22:40:24 so if i do ?where ?where again will it not spam 22:40:27 you can have two nicks on the same connection? 22:40:34 Bike: yes it will 22:41:05 oh 22:43:00 oerjan: There's a new version? 22:43:09 oerjan: because same connection 22:43:10 as in 22:43:12 same IP 22:43:23 presumably because otherwise you could just run 100 spambots on the same server 22:43:33 and have them each say one line 22:43:43 shachaf: or an old one, dependent on which one you actually know :P 22:45:18 nah the new one is apparently very new, from this year 22:46:52 "It was the favourite television programme of the then Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Margaret Thatcher." 22:48:24 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:49:06 good lambdabot bug 22:49:52 ‘The public,' said Sir Humphrey, ‘do not know anything about wasting public money. We are the experts.' 22:50:10 hm 22:50:10 ‘We'll have to do an O & M,' I said. [Organisation and Method Study - Ed.] ‘See how many we can do without.' 22:50:14 ‘We did one of those last year,' said Sir Humphrey blandly. ‘And we discovered we needed another five hundred people. However, Minister, we could always close your Bureaucratic Watchdog Department.'1 22:51:41 shachaf: I reported it 22:51:53 hoorelliott 22:56:12 At last Humphrey decided to make his meaning clear. ‘When the chips are down, Minister, and the balloon goes up and the lights go out . . . there has to be somewhere to carry on government, even if everything else stops.’ 22:56:16 I considered this carefully for a few moments. ‘Why?’ I asked. 22:56:19 Humphrey appeared to be absolutely staggered by this question. He explained to me, as if I were a backward five-year-old, ‘Government doesn’t stop merely because the country’s been destroyed. Annihilation is bad enough, without anarchy to make it even worse.’ 23:00:05 -!- fizzie has joined. 23:01:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:02:03 -!- fungot has joined. 23:02:09 our long dark days of fungotlessness are over! 23:02:09 oerjan: times change, and 2 for fnord 23:02:18 So appropriate. 23:02:33 `welcome fungot 23:02:34 olsner: some cases, it can be avoided. the contents are in ascii? 23:02:36 fungot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:02:37 ^style 23:02:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:02:48 ^style qwantz 23:02:48 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 23:03:00 fungot 23:03:01 shachaf: never!! kids will be boarding the train to scarytowne at my own pace, dromiceiomimus. we look happy. look, i'm going to the docks right syntax to get ourselves moving. no thanks, chuckles, but there's a rude jerk, and then they both said the next few days were going to me, the omniscient. the dude has to sleep! superman could laser him from orbit while he's having nappy times! enter only if you have a valid passport to 23:04:49 ^def where ul (@where @where)S 23:04:58 For the record: I was away (France, Switzerland, very briefly Italy) for June 4th through (late) June 9th, so of course the ISP handling my home decided to mangle ("yeah, the routing info is all wrong, provisioned to the wrong port" said the 24/7 support guy when I called an hour ago) the connection around noon of June 4th. 23:05:01 wat 23:05:07 ^show where 23:05:12 16:04 I JUST WANT TO XOR TWO INTEGERS 23:05:12 16:04 OR CHARS 23:05:14 Huh. 23:05:20 kmc: look what these challenges have brought to us 23:05:26 fizzie: your ISP has support guys who know what routing info is? 23:05:26 ;'( 23:05:39 xor is Hard, man 23:05:40 it's like a PROJECT EULER but for CRYPTOGRAPHY 23:05:42 fungot: you don't seem well 23:05:42 oerjan: this cabin is a front! and maybe on the back sometimes that i am a good friend, t-rex, but i already do! i have a friend, of my own age, you get to call all these " dog days" of summer. 23:05:45 elliott: Apparently the night staff doesn't involve any first-tier support people. 23:05:46 ^help 23:05:46 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 23:05:47 jerkcity version: I JUST WANT TO XOR TWO INTEGERS / OR COCKS 23:05:48 ^show 23:05:48 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping 23:05:51 ^show where 23:05:51 @yow 23:05:51 I'm having a tax-deductible experience! I need an energy crunch!! 23:05:51 Couldn't find fortune file 23:05:52 Is this an out-take from the "BRADY BUNCH"? 23:05:58 we are going at warp 10 here 23:06:00 @yow 23:06:00 I don't know WHY I said that ... I think it came from the FILLINGS in 23:06:00 my read molars ... 23:06:00 Couldn't find fortune file 23:06:00 Are you still an ALCOHOLIC? 23:06:01 "this cabin is a front! and maybe on the back sometimes" not bad 23:06:03 ^def where ul (@where @where)S 23:06:03 Defined. 23:06:06 ETOOMANYBOTS 23:06:09 help 23:06:12 ENOTENOUGHBOTS 23:06:13 oerjan: It was The Usual Bug. 23:06:18 > text "hi fungot" 23:06:18 @quote 23:06:18 kmc: me! i do. " merry? you're poor enough, i could get a completely different adult down, so the whole deal into my computer's cd tray! 23:06:18 No quotes yet. 23:06:18 geekoid says: the problem with wikipedia is that it works in practice, but not in theory. 23:06:18 Miod says: [On the vax] How many processors come with a built-in instruction which computes polynomials of degrees up to 31? 23:06:18 hi fungot 23:06:18 mubot: and i, my friends, is the malaise of the glutton at life's buffet, building complicaters? domino frustraters? wobbley times u.s.a.? um, maybe if i told his jokes lately 23:06:19 hi fungot 23:06:19 hi fungot 23:06:19 kappabot: more so than usual, t-rex, that going shopping was your default activity? we'd never get anything you want, but want what you do. it's so easy, but nobody's that impressed when you tell them you think they're dating the wrong person? 23:06:25 my god, pure ideology 23:06:44 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/XTSO as seen by fungot. 23:06:44 fizzie: but t-rex, you can't play the game optimally! and assuming that in a man... or a woman, dromiceiomimus! 23:06:50 ^def where ul (@where @nowhere)S 23:06:50 Defined. 23:06:51 fungot your tongue? 23:06:51 shachaf: to the last, i will grapple with thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee! from hell's heart, i stab at thee 23:07:08 i think fungot wants to stab shachaf 23:07:08 shac:elliott: that you all for them, i have come up with a new saddest thing ever!!... which is also nice, until a really attractive friend of theirs shows, interviews, documentaries about me, make new friends, and start a life of lies? 23:07:09 just a hunch 23:07:13 nice "shac:elliott:" 23:07:17 kappabot: @where+ @nowhere @where @somewhere 23:07:17 Good to know. 23:07:30 mubot: @where+ @somewhere @where @where 23:07:30 It is forever etched in my memory. 23:07:38 oh wait 23:08:20 lambdabot: @where+ @where ^where @where 23:08:20 I will remember. 23:08:32 is that right 23:08:38 (also, horribly wrong) 23:08:42 no wait 23:08:47 ouch 23:08:49 It's like looking at someone setting up one of those domino piece things. 23:09:05 shaq:elliott: 23:09:23 mubot: @where+ @somewhere ^where @where 23:09:23 I will never forget. 23:09:36 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:10:00 gah i'm hopelessly confused now 23:10:07 me too 23:10:11 why the hell isn't this working 23:10:13 can i be confused 23:10:28 no. 23:11:00 ^show ^where 23:11:07 eek 23:11:16 oh 23:11:18 so doing something like @where @nowhere or ^where will start a new botloop? 23:11:20 ^show where 23:11:21 (@where @nowhere)S 23:11:50 -!- carado has joined. 23:12:35 lambdabot: @where+ @where @where @nowhere 23:12:35 Nice! 23:12:55 ^def where ul (@where @where)S 23:12:56 Defined. 23:13:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:13:20 ok here goes 23:13:27 oh boy 23:13:28 ^where anything, really? 23:13:28 @where @where 23:13:28 I know nothing about @where. 23:13:28 @where @nowhere 23:13:28 @where @where 23:13:40 eek 23:14:35 oops 23:14:46 lambdabot adds a space... D: 23:15:16 it didn't add a space last time though? 23:15:17 darn bugfixes ;_; 23:15:55 OMG I RUINED IT 23:17:22 probably it special-cases @. 23:17:24 but not ?. 23:19:03 mubot: @quit 23:19:03 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 23:19:13 -!- mubot has joined. 23:19:15 > 3 23:19:16 3 23:19:16 3 23:19:17 3 23:19:25 wtf. it suddenly started working 23:19:27 3 23:21:13 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:21:25 oh that's true! 23:22:16 lambdabot: @where+ @where ?where ?nowhere 23:22:16 I will never forget. 23:22:53 kappabot: @where+ ?nowhere ?where @somewhere 23:22:53 -!- carado has joined. 23:22:53 Done. 23:23:01 ^where whataboutnow 23:23:01 @where @where 23:23:01 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:01 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:01 @where @where 23:23:01 I know nothing about ?nowhere. 23:23:01 ?where @somewhere 23:23:01 ^where @where 23:23:01 @where @where 23:23:02 I know nothing about @somewhere. 23:23:02 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:02 @where @where 23:23:02 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:02 I know nothing about ?nowhere. 23:23:02 ?where @somewhere 23:23:02 I know nothing about @somewhere. 23:23:03 ^where @where 23:23:03 @where @where 23:23:03 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:03 @where @where 23:23:04 ?where @somewhere 23:23:04 I know nothing about @somewhere. 23:23:05 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:05 sigh 23:23:07 I know nothing about ?nowhere. 23:23:09 ^where @where 23:23:09 @where @where 23:23:09 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:09 @where @where 23:23:10 ?where @somewhere 23:23:10 I know nothing about @somewhere. 23:23:11 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:11 It wasn't me! 23:23:13 I know nothing about ?nowhere. 23:23:15 ^where @where 23:23:15 @where @where 23:23:15 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:15 @where @where 23:23:15 ^where+ ?nowhere nope 23:23:16 ?where @somewhere 23:23:16 I know nothing about @somewhere. 23:23:17 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:19 I know nothing about ?nowhere. 23:23:21 @where+ ?nowhere nope 23:23:21 Okay. 23:23:21 Nice! 23:23:21 ^where @where 23:23:21 @where @where 23:23:21 ?where ?nowhere 23:23:21 @where @where 23:23:22 nope 23:23:23 Done. 23:23:25 I know nothing about @where. 23:23:27 nope 23:25:22 mubot: T 1 23:25:26 mubot: :t 1 23:25:51 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:26:00 it worked! 23:26:17 i assume. hard to tell in that mess. 23:26:53 looks like if lambdabot knew about @somewhere and mubot about ?nowhere, it would've worked more 23:26:59 ok but for real why do we have all these bots 23:27:08 we have lambdabot because lambdabot is great 23:27:10 we have kappabot because of shachaf 23:27:12 we have mubot because of me 23:27:21 see? easily explained. 23:27:21 so, you and shachaf suck? 23:27:41 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:28:00 nearing the omega point 23:28:47 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:28:56 kmc: hey, no skipping greek letters! 23:30:37 :) 23:31:03 -!- nooga has joined. 23:31:10 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 23:31:15 @tell elliott hi 23:31:15 Consider it noted. 23:31:15 Consider it noted. 23:31:15 Consider it noted. 23:31:26 @messages? 23:31:26 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:31:26 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg kappabot @messages' to read it. 23:31:30 @clear-messages 23:31:30 Messages cleared. 23:31:30 Messages cleared. 23:31:30 Messages cleared. 23:31:32 hmm, why did mubot not respond? 23:31:49 shachaf: can you try @messages? 23:32:05 00:31:26 You have 1 new message. '/msg mubot @messages' to read it. 23:32:06 help 23:32:09 @tell elliott test 23:32:09 You can tell yourself! 23:32:09 You can tell yourself! 23:32:09 You can tell yourself! 23:32:09 * ion is tempted to @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo, but he won’t. 23:32:11 ugh 23:32:13 ion: can you @tell me something 23:32:24 @tell elliott something 23:32:24 Consider it noted. 23:32:24 Consider it noted. 23:32:24 Consider it noted. 23:32:27 @tell elliott The computer says no. 23:32:27 Consider it noted. 23:32:27 Consider it noted. 23:32:27 Consider it noted. 23:32:27 @tell elliott this is stupid 23:32:27 Consider it noted. 23:32:28 Consider it noted. 23:32:28 Consider it noted. 23:32:30 @messages 23:32:30 Sgeo said 6s ago: something 23:32:30 Sgeo said 6s ago: something 23:32:30 ion said 3s ago: The computer says no. 23:32:30 Bike said 2s ago: this is stupid 23:32:30 ion said 3s ago: The computer says no. 23:32:30 Bike said 3s ago: this is stupid 23:32:35 awesome 23:32:39 mubot responds in private 23:32:52 right, i'm using memoserv from now on 23:34:24 lambdabot: @tell Bike you can restrict it to one bot hth 23:34:25 Consider it noted. 23:34:39 1d7 23:34:39 elliott: 2 23:34:42 nice. 23:34:57 lambdabot: tell ion Is a redundant command prefix needed? 23:35:05 1 2 3 23:35:19 what, not even @roll or something? 23:35:19 Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:35:23 lambdabot: fuck yourself 23:35:31 elliott: um you want to have commands with no prefix? 23:35:41 14d57 23:35:41 oerjan: 390 23:35:43 oerjan: this is in the default git lambdabot. 23:35:45 not my doing! 23:35:48 1d7 1d7 23:35:50 huh 23:35:58 looks like it only works when your entire message is a roll 23:35:59 so it seems ok 23:36:03 234 23:36:04 238913 23:36:10 do people play D&D with lambda bot 23:36:10 ok how do i get this fucking numberwang plugin to trigger 23:36:36 @numberwang 7 23:36:36 Unknown command, try @list 23:36:36 Unknown command, try @list 23:36:36 Unknown command, try @list 23:36:40 oh. 23:36:42 it's not loaded 23:36:43 ok 23:37:26 mubot: @nazi-on 23:37:26 Spelling nazi engaged. 23:37:29 hlep 23:37:30 Did you mean help, hep or Heep? 23:37:37 wow, stupidest bot mode ever 23:37:39 lambdabot: @nazi-on 23:37:39 Did you mean lambda bot, lambda-bot, lambda, lambdas or lambda's? 23:37:39 Spelling nazi engaged. 23:37:44 kappabot: @nazi-on 23:37:44 Did you mean kappa bot, kappa-bot, jabot, Cabot or kaput? 23:37:44 Spelling nazi engaged. 23:37:52 i'm going to die. 23:37:59 numberwang 23:37:59 Did you mean numbering, numbing, Nibelung, numbness or Namibian? 23:37:59 Did you mean numbering, numberings or numbing? 23:37:59 Did you mean numbering or lumbering's? 23:38:15 as they say: don't be stupid / be a smarty / come on and join the nazi party. 23:38:17 should i even ask why they're all distinct. or why mubot responded twice. 23:38:17 Did you mean mu bot, mu-bot, Minot, bot or mot? 23:38:17 Did you mean mu bot, mu-bot, Minot, bot or mot? 23:38:22 Numberings 23:38:22 Did you mean Numbering or Lumbering's? 23:38:27 Good job, mubot. 23:38:27 Did you mean mu bot, mu-bot, Minot, bot or mot? 23:38:27 Did you mean mu bot, mu-bot, Minot, bot or mot? 23:38:30 Fuck you. 23:38:33 appelsiinit päähän 23:38:34 Did you mean appellant, applicant, opalescent, adolescent or Appleseed? 23:38:36 should leave these on forever 23:38:47 I hate you. I hate life. I hate everything 23:38:48 nazi-on is channel-specific? 23:38:48 Did you mean Nazi, Nazis, NZ, Nair or naif? 23:38:48 Did you mean Nazi, Nazis, Nani, Nari or Nazi's? 23:38:48 Did you mean Nan, Mani, Bani, Nazi or Nan's? 23:38:52 elliott: i hate you 23:38:53 Did you mean Elliott, Elliot, Eliot, Elliott's or Elliot's? 23:38:53 Did you mean Elliott, Elliot, Eliot, Ellette or Elliott's? 23:38:53 Did you mean Elliott, Elate, Elite, Elliot or Gillette? 23:38:57 @nazi-off 23:38:57 Spelling nazi disengaged. 23:38:57 Spelling nazi disengaged. 23:38:57 Spelling nazi disengaged. 23:38:57 :-D 23:39:16 ion: it seems like actually no 23:39:20 but also it seems like lambdabot didn't respond to any of it 23:39:28 lol. 23:39:33 Oh, indeed. 23:39:35 @messages 23:39:35 You don't have any messages 23:39:35 You don't have any new messages. 23:39:35 You don't have any new messages. 23:39:40 elliott: hth 23:39:46 ) <'I feel lonely' 23:39:46 Sgeo: +-------------+ 23:39:46 Sgeo: |I feel lonely| 23:39:46 Sgeo: +-------------+ 23:40:53 shachaf: Did you mean massages, messengers, messuages or missayings? 23:41:18 let's see. clog, egobot, fungot, glogbot, glogbackup, HackEgo, jconn, kappabot, lambdabot, mubot. that's a lotta bots. 23:41:18 Bike: are you in this house, god? i am: up next, we have a man who is a push-over. besides, their interiors are scaled for adults with problems! everybody likes bears, with post dessert? 23:41:30 we're like 1/7 bots. 23:42:03 I wonder if bots will take over the channel from humans one day? 23:45:50 Someone should make lambdabot run newStdGen when mueval is invoked and pass the result as a pure value to the mueval environment. (I probably can’t be arsed even to install a local lambdabot instance, not to mention hacking on it.) 23:46:26 ion: isn't access to quickcheck and OEIS enough for you? 23:48:22 Bike: hey onbotti and metasepia aren't here 23:48:40 mubot: @quit 23:48:40 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 23:48:46 oh wait oonbotti is 23:49:04 #esoterm 23:49:11 #esoteric 23:49:11 Nothing here 23:49:18 -!- mubot has joined. 23:49:25 i wonder why it responds to the channel name 23:49:36 #esoteric q 23:49:36 Nothing here 23:49:49 it's a statement about ni hil ism 23:49:54 #haskell 23:50:06 ##bestiality 23:50:22 bestiality is the best, it's in the name 23:54:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:58:00 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:59:10 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 2013-06-10: 00:01:49 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:10:54 oh for fuck's sake there are MULTIPLE fast fourier transforms! 00:11:11 2 fast 2 fourier 00:12:10 ++ 00:12:24 <> 00:12:35 IF X <> Y THEN GOTO 20 00:13:21 IF ⪓ Y THEN GOTO 20 00:13:38 did that thing eat the "X" D: 00:13:46 does roger penrose... age? 00:13:46 LESS-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL ABOVE GREATER-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL 00:14:12 oopse lost the X 00:14:20 well i have two slanted equals so pretend they overlap 00:14:29 Phantom_Hoover: probably not 00:15:15 Bike: you should tweet "2 Fast 2 Fourier" and I will retweet it and then we will both become more popular on the Internet 00:15:21 v. important 00:15:26 hey you should retweet my tweets 00:15:43 my last tweet was uh, a report on the US food stamp program 00:15:47 i gotta keep up the theme!!! 00:15:48 i retweeted all of your tweets shachaf 00:15:56 kmc: you haven't retweeted any of them 00:16:00 also true 00:16:16 kmc: for every tweet shachaf made, you didn't retweet t 00:16:18 *it 00:16:32 let's not bring quantification into this, we're all friends here 00:16:45 you (haven't retweeted) all of them, *and* you haven't (retweeted any of them) 00:17:56 `echo hi 00:17:57 hi 00:18:01 miusf 00:18:26 main is usually sometimes functional 00:18:37 main is usually san francisco 00:19:15 why can't i get to the logs... 00:19:18 :=D 00:19:43 WFM 00:19:57 ᾯ GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI AND PROSGEGRAMMENI 00:20:43 ⚕ DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB LEFT BESIDE DOWNWARDS HARPOON WITH BARB RIGHT 00:20:59 im upset 00:20:59 shachaf's poetic masterpiece. 00:21:06 Stop being upset. 00:21:12 no 00:21:16 im happy at being upset :') 00:21:16 Yes. 00:21:19 that first one looks like a recipe 00:21:29 with strange greek herbs 00:21:47 Legalize prosgegrammeni 00:22:45 U+1F402 OX 00:23:00 ⊻ XOR 00:23:39 * kmc installs unicode-data immediately 00:24:59 i need some non-heteronormative spam 00:25:04 my awk doesn't have --field-separator :( 00:25:20 kmc: BEGIN { FS=";" } 00:25:40 ok 00:25:41 or 00:25:42 perl -F';' -lane 'print length($F[1]), " ", $F[0], " ", $F[1]' < /usr/share/unicode/UnicodeData.txt | sort -rn | less 00:25:57 /usr/share/unicode/UnicodeData.txt: no such file or directory 00:26:17 sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root / 00:26:22 sulamit 00:26:44 biggest one for me: 00:26:45 ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 00:26:49 uighur please 00:27:20 Wait, is it uighur or kirghiz. 00:27:39 those are like pretty different, aren't they 00:27:56 maybe both 00:28:07 perl -F';' -lane 'print "@{[length($F[1]), $F[0], $F[1]]}"' what is this @{..} wizardry 00:28:40 "A Pinyin-derived Latin-based alphabet (with additional letters borrowed from Cyrillic)" i don't understand how northwestern china even exists 00:29:00 shit guys we need more letters 00:29:57 MS Windows Uyghur keyboard layout. Note that vowels are still using the older alphabet from the Arabic script, and not the newer plain letters of the Uyghur Ereb Yëziqi alphabet (composed of pairs of Arabic letters, starting by an alef with hamza, that must be entered separately on this keyboard before the actual vowel). In fact, the keyboard is also based on the older Latin alphabet used for the Mixed Uyghur Yëngi Yëziq, and does not allow 00:30:10 "@foo" adds spaces between elements. [] makes array refs. @{} dereferences them. "@{}" adds spaces between elements. 00:30:18 Perl is so elegant. 00:30:26 v. good 00:32:24 It’s funny i remember something like that although i haven’t really used Perl for, like, ten years. 00:34:34 i'm not so sure that @foo adds spaces, isn't @ just the sigil for arrays 00:34:49 if i do perl -e 'print @{[1, 2]}' i don't get spaces 00:35:05 kmc, Rebol? 00:35:05 kmc: You forgot the quotes. 00:35:14 ohh 00:35:32 when arrays are interpolated into strings, they get spaces, but not when you print them directly 00:35:35 of course 00:35:37 Sgeo: Rebol? 00:35:38 To be more accurate, it adds $" in between. 00:35:44 is that the OFS? 00:36:01 What's OFS? 00:36:21 why is Ƣ reported as "LATIN LETTER OI" 00:36:26 CAPITAL* 00:36:33 oh it's a misname 00:36:34 lol 00:37:02 http://unicode.org/notes/tn27/ welp 00:37:14 $LIST_SEPARATOR, $": When an array or an array slice is interpolated into a double-quoted string or a similar context such as /.../ , its elements are separated by this value. Default is a space. For example, this: […] 00:37:24 sgeo: Output field separator 00:37:30 Bike: lolunicode 00:37:35 U+034F COMBINING GRAPHEME JOINER The name does not describe the function of this character. Despite its name, it does not join graphemes. 00:37:54 "then what's it for" "fuck you it's stable" 00:37:56 i like that nobody knows why the hacek is called "caron" 00:38:21 "U+034F COMBINING GRAPHEME JOINER... Despite its name, it does not join graphemes." 00:38:21 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER I DON'T FUCKING KNOW 00:38:22 % perl -lwe '$" = "|"; print qq{@{["foo", "bar", 42]}}' 00:38:24 foo|bar|42 00:38:29 oh you just said that 00:38:42 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:38:45 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER BUGGRE ALL THIS FOR A LARKE 00:39:58 'U+262B FARSI SYMBOL This symbol is so named because as symbol of Iran it cannot be encoded in ISO standards.' 00:40:01 what 00:40:19 lol what 00:40:21 are you really trying to have us believe that every symbol in the unicode table has an actual purpose and a definite usage? 00:40:22 … 00:40:32 can ISO standards not mention countries, or 00:41:46 they have religious symbols... 00:41:53 Iran - © middle-east 00:41:59 also a hammer and sickle 00:42:10 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 00:42:31 Bike: right but maybe you can't mention countries because they can change or something 00:42:35 and a black flag! smash the state 00:42:54 elliott: they only have a trillion different (changed!!) crosses 00:43:05 I still don’t know why there’s a white smiling face, a white frowning face, a black smiling face and no black frowning face. 00:43:10 also three different transgender symbols, heh 00:43:23 ⚧ is of course the superior one 00:43:32 I like how that's a space for me. 00:43:36 is that mosh's fault, I wonder... 00:43:46 elliott: I have mosh, works here. 00:43:58 s/have/run/ 00:44:04 maybe it's just my font 00:44:12 "Left-handed interlaced pentagram" 00:44:24 Shinto shrine! 00:44:54 Unicode is anti-American!!! they have FARSI SYMBOL but not AMERICAN FLAG WITH CRYING BALD EAGLE ABOVE 00:45:14 oh come on, they have a maltese cross 00:45:20 it says "maltese" right there! 00:45:48 " It is also the modern symbol of Amalfi, a small Italian republic of the 11th century." 00:46:07 Unicode is full of problems; that isn't the only one. They are also missing other things, have too many of some other things too; but at least, there is private areas in case you need them, so you can use those if you want to. 00:46:32 and brakcets 00:46:44 wow there are a lot of swastikas. 00:47:21 "A-ok 👌 U+1F44C OK HAND SIGN I'm okay, asshole, homosexual (insult)" 00:47:39 kmc: ok so there's a statue of liberty. 00:47:43 oh yeah 00:47:53 i think maybe this just makes no goddamn sense?? 00:48:04 blame the japanese phone companies 00:48:07 I suppose, there is an ordinary swastika, a kanji swastika, a Nazi rotated swastika, etc 00:48:25 Bike: I, too, think maybe this just makes no goddamn sense!! 00:48:30 thanks 00:48:34 holy jesus the suggested image for statue of liberty 00:48:50 what is it 00:49:22 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f5fd/browsertest.htm 00:49:36 mubot: @let あ = 'a' 00:49:37 Parse failed: Illegal character ''\129'' 00:49:37 . 00:49:42 shachaf: :( 00:49:44 ion: I do know why there is both a white and a black smiling face; it is for compatibility with CP437. 00:49:53 This isn't a "space". It is an invisible character that can be used to provide line break opportunities. 00:49:54 @let あ = 'a' 00:49:54 Parse failed: Illegal character ''\129'' 00:49:54 Illegal character ''\12354'' 00:49:55 Illegal character ''\12354'' 00:49:56 I suppose they never bothered to add the black frowning face. 00:49:59 at least we all fail 00:51:02 well i definitely need to read the notes 00:51:03 zzo38: CP437 has a white frowning face? 00:51:06 there's one entirely about burma 00:51:36 http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn9/ also 00:51:52 ion: No, it doesn't, but it does have hollow smiling face and filled smiling face. MegaZeux default set has a filled frowning face, but not a hollow frowning face like Unicode has. 00:52:05 As another example, multiprocessor sorting algorithms can be non-deterministic. The work of sorting different blocks of data are farmed out to different processors and then merged back together. The ordering of records with equal fields might be different according to when different processors finish different tasks. 00:52:57 haha the burma one is 67 pages this is awesome 00:53:16 Hrm. Wonder if I could sell my Nook to get the Nook that has GloLight 00:53:24 Probably not really worth it 00:53:34 *GlowLight 00:54:38 god i actually find this interesting. i think i'm mentally unsound 00:54:55 CP850 has all of the printable ZSCII except for the OE ligature. 00:56:30 Language X has 7 vowels. The creators of the new orthography want to stay away from diacritical marks as much as possible, so they use A, E, I, O, U, but need two more "vowels". "Bad practice” would be picking the numerals "6" and "7" as the other two vowels, giving: A, E, I, O, U, 6, 7 as "letters" in the orthography. 00:56:50 In what kind of language? 00:56:52 I wonder if they were thinking of the numerous orthographies that have done pretty much exactly that 00:57:03 are you reading an exam about how to design languages 00:57:19 unicode technical note 19, RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CREATING NEW ORTHOGRAPHIES 00:57:39 that is a badass kind of technical note to write 00:57:46 lol wow 00:58:05 unicode technical note 72, RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STARTING NEW CIVILISATIONS 00:58:20 what's the newest orthography in common use 00:58:29 ummmmm good question! 00:58:47 like, not a modification of an older one, hm 00:58:47 CP437 has even less of printable ZSCII, although Windows-1252 does include all of the printable ZSCII. 00:58:53 RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHOOSIN WHERE TO USE ALL-CAPS 00:58:57 well I think they're mostly modifications of older ones 00:58:57 G 00:59:04 it is hard to define, yeah 00:59:18 like German had a spelling reform in 1996 00:59:21 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:59:26 kmc: i mean like, a language that wasn't written before picking up a modified cyrillic would count, but not a spelling reform? 00:59:35 also squamish uses 7 for glottal stop it's great 00:59:45 makes me squeamish 01:02:17 Moldova switched from Cyrillic to Latin in 1989 but the language is a dialect of Romanian and they just adopted the orthography already in use in Romania 01:02:21 maybe it's in the ethnologue somewhere 01:02:54 i kind of chuckle whenever i see "dialect" now 01:03:40 "Literacy rate in L1: 6%. 300 can read and write it" dang 01:04:55 ok i found a site entirely about scripts. Current Software Needs include: "Addition of Bold and Italic face to Abyssinica" "Handwriting font for West Africa" 01:06:40 -!- conehead has joined. 01:06:59 It doesn't list dates. Woe. 01:08:41 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Tanezrouft-Piste1990.jpg 01:09:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:10:02 minefield in... any one of the billion ex french colonies in africa? 01:10:16 i don't know if it's a minefield or just that you'll get lost and die 01:10:27 but yeah, algeria / niger / mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanezrouft 01:10:32 also a valid concern 01:11:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poste_Maurice_Cortier this seems like a poppin' place to be 01:14:00 huh, according to the burma report they have two different codepoints for two different renders of the same character, i didn't know unicode allowed that 01:14:31 i ate wild mushrooms picked from the MIT campus yesterday 01:14:45 also there was a tiny tiny snail on them when we picked them, but i didn't eat the snail 01:15:06 missing out imo 01:16:36 "Due to the stability criteria of the Unicode standard, once a combining order is set in the standard, it is impossible to 01:16:39 change it for that character. In addition, there is no requirement that normalized order must mirror linguistic order. 01:17:05 Bike: multiple renders is pretty frequent 01:17:07 e.g. math 01:17:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:17:29 example? 01:18:23 blackboard bold 01:18:26 math cursive 01:18:30 math bold 01:18:40 it makes a lot of sense to make these different characters 01:18:42 I should watch the Batman movies 01:18:47 well i mean 01:18:54 B and blackboard B have different semantics, no? 01:18:56 Sgeo: it will teach you how to be literally batman 01:19:02 Bike: in math, yes. in English, no 01:19:08 well yes 01:19:18 i mean these renderings have the same semantics everywhere 01:20:04 but, one of the minority languages only uses one of the renderings, so they separated it out... 01:20:36 they are only different characters because of maths 01:20:40 stupid mathematicians 01:20:46 god forbid they should use multi character identifiers for anything 01:20:51 i meant the burmese ones. 01:21:00 category theorists got us up to accepting 3 character identifiers 01:21:02 sgaw karen only uses one form 01:21:25 kmc: those were already accepted 01:21:26 cf sin 01:21:45 original sin 01:24:26 kmc: you know what's good? answer: wild strawberries in finland 01:24:36 oh yes 01:24:39 sounds very good 01:24:43 i should have some 01:24:46 did you have any when you were in finland 01:24:48 no :/ 01:24:54 imo go back and have some hth 01:25:01 they are tiny and delicious 01:25:01 ok 01:25:05 how do you find them 01:25:10 they are easier to ID than mushrooms I hope 01:25:14 um 01:25:18 not sure how you find them 01:25:22 but they look like strawberries 01:25:30 i saw lots of chanterelles on sale in fi 01:30:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 01:31:16 is finland a mycophilic society 01:31:45 i'm a strawberry 01:31:54 doubtful 01:32:19 elliott the doubtful strawberry 01:32:25 @yarr 01:32:25 Aye Aye Cap'n 01:32:25 Swab the deck! 01:32:25 Aye 01:32:33 this is like having a whole crew of pirates 01:32:35 @arr 01:32:35 Arrr! 01:32:35 Aye Aye Cap'n 01:32:35 I'll crush ye barnacles! 01:32:42 a pirate I was meant to be / &c. 01:32:57 a pirate I was meant to be / trim the sails and e t c... 01:33:06 wait, that's a double and 01:33:06 i'm ending this here 01:33:13 wait I didn't know you played MI3 01:33:18 ? 01:33:30 ? 01:33:31 I've quoted that song in this channel more than once. 01:34:09 06:07:56: I,I We'll surely avoid scurvy if we all eat an ^Borange^O. 01:34:09 06:08:15: Is that a monkey island quote 01:34:10 06:08:24: and what the FUCK is I,I 01:34:10 06:08:27: stop that shit. 01:34:10 06:08:43: i literally heard that in guybrush's voice jesus 01:34:36 Bike: it's just an owl face calm down man 01:34:38 ok fine 01:34:41 i have an awful memory okay 01:34:59 *sings* i i i i 01:35:17 ...so ungoogleable ugh 01:35:20 It was in a commercial 01:47:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:35 -!- augur has joined. 01:51:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:51:54 mubot: @quit 01:51:54 -!- mubot has quit (Quit: requested). 02:00:30 ate too much candy 02:00:32 again 02:00:53 why do they have to make it so goddamn tasty :'( 02:03:51 kmc: i'm about to do something exciting 02:08:01 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:23 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:24:22 oh? 02:25:02 sorry it's secret 02:25:19 ok 02:25:22 good luck 02:25:41 thmc i couldn't do it without you 02:29:29 kmc: I could say the same thing about sushi 02:29:40 why do they have to make it so /good/ 02:30:00 true 02:30:08 and the answer to both is: personal vendetta 02:30:20 you gotta apologise to the person in the candy and/or sushi factory 02:32:15 the way that I deal with it is the ralph's is like, half a mile out of the way 02:32:19 so I have to put *effort* into buying sushi 02:32:23 and I make sure only to buy one 02:32:46 you know the rules for sushi. set a budget. set a time limit. always go all in 02:32:52 then later when I'm "I want more" I can't get more 02:32:55 it's just like with ice cream 02:33:00 it's easy to not buy chocolate ice cream at the store 02:33:14 it's an inhuman feat to not eat it when it's sitting in the freezer and I'm feeling awful 02:34:09 true that 02:34:19 problem: delivery sushi 02:34:30 i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money 02:34:33 like cocaine 02:34:44 they have delivery sushi? oh no :/ 02:34:51 look what i've done 02:35:07 it's okay though, having to use a phone to order sushi is bad and painful enough that I wouldn't do it 02:35:09 you can even order delivery sushi over the internet without talking to a person 02:35:12 oh no 02:35:14 ... oh no 02:35:24 kmc you monster 02:35:28 ;_; 02:35:30 do they have delivery candy "revenge" 02:35:31 but then there's like awkward person knocking on my door oh god what do I do 02:35:34 this is entrapment 02:35:43 Fiora: "no, they deliver it by UAV" 02:35:52 Fiora: in the "special instructions" field put that they should set the sushi down, ring the bell, and run away 02:35:58 *PFFF* 02:36:05 home alone 2 style 02:36:15 also maybe home alone 1 style?!?!? did not see 02:36:20 to be fair it would be cool if it was like, ups style? 02:36:25 where they knock, drop it off, and leave 02:36:34 and then you're like "oh! sushi!" and there's sushi 02:36:40 if you don't answer they put a sticky note on your door and try to deliver the same sushi again the next day 02:36:54 kmccccccccc 02:36:57 that's terribleeee 02:36:58 if you don't get it the next day you can drive down to the warehouse district and pick up your 3 day old sushi 02:37:04 kmc you're an enabler 02:37:06 wcpgw 02:37:08 * Fiora flailing 02:37:18 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:37:27 here's how it should have gone but then there's like awkward person knocking on my door oh god what do I do good point. it is impossible to effectively use delivery sushi and you should forget about it 02:37:32 enabler? more like excellent 02:37:59 well I just have to like. eat less food the rest of the day, then I can eat more sushi 02:38:01 last saturday i was in san francisco and super hung over and delivery sushi was my salvation 02:38:03 i like how kmc remembers he's seen home alone 2 and not home alone 1 02:38:11 i can't even mentally tell the home alone films apart at all 02:38:15 they're just all one blob of home alone 02:38:18 the second one was in new york 02:38:23 the first one was in.... home 02:38:26 i thought they were all in new york. 02:38:29 `addquote i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money like cocaine 02:38:33 1050) i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money like cocaine 02:38:52 no in the first one they go to Paris and leave him at home in Illinois 02:39:12 in the second one they go to Miami and he goes to New York instead for some reason 02:39:25 but yeah basically the same things happen in each film 02:39:32 home alone 2: not actually in a home?? 02:39:32 I could eat like, sushi in the morning, and then sushi in the evening. a balanced diet 02:39:42 and maybe a yogurt 02:39:46 then there was Home Alone 3 with different characters and director and different, terrible plot 02:39:47 kmc: what about home alone 3 02:39:49 all the five major food groups. fish, rice, other fish 02:39:49 ok 02:39:54 I think I might have seen that one 02:39:57 sushi has vegetables too! 02:40:00 aren't the plots to all of them terrible 02:40:04 though I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it as a kid too 02:40:06 is rice a vegetable 02:40:10 like let's face it 02:40:12 Bike: no 02:40:14 you're watching home alone for one reason 02:40:27 i'm pretty sure everything that grows in the ground should be considered a vegetable 02:40:39 i mean do we really need all these categories 02:40:39 to see Joe Pesci get hit in the balls? 02:40:48 kmc: that seems like a fair summary, yes 02:40:54 also before you ask water counts as ground, so rice and also fish are vegetables 02:41:08 also the kid in Home Alone has a name similar to mine 02:41:15 and I guess in middle school people thought this was interesting 02:41:19 but then everyone forgot about it 02:41:27 they spell it McCallister though 02:41:29 home alone is sort of like pornography except, like, it's adults getting slapsticked by a kid instead. i'm just sayin' 02:41:29 the un-cool wayp 02:41:35 Bike: avocado (technically a fruit but a culinary vegetable right?) and cucumber and stuff 02:41:41 kmc: did people really care about home alone in middle school 02:41:44 elliott: do i want to know what kind of pornography you watch (no, I do not want to know) 02:41:53 kmc: home alone 1, 2, 3, 4 (is there a home alone 4) 02:42:02 home alone 7 02:42:10 also really wahtever it has eel and eel is the best fish 02:42:14 alone at home (modernised reboot of the series) 02:42:20 i mean corn is a grain 02:42:22 the dark, gritty reboot 02:42:25 i'm pretty sure that's insane 02:42:26 other fish don't really need to exist because. eel 02:42:33 directed by j j j j j abrams 02:42:35 i wonder what oarfish taste like 02:42:37 "bad" 02:42:42 or vampire squid 02:42:44 Kevin McCallister kills the robbers and is tried as an adult 02:42:49 does life 02:42:53 i should eat vampire squid calimari somehow 02:43:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkbb05cDR-Y 02:43:18 the original Home Alone movies exist within the universe of this film and are revealed as a callous attempt to cash in on his tragedy 02:43:20 Nostalgia time 02:43:20 kmc: but he breaks out and enacts his revenge, so it ends up basically identical to all the others except he's like 40 02:43:33 haha 02:43:38 Home Alone meets Natural Born Killers 02:43:39 this sounds more like Sin City than Home Alone 02:43:45 i could go for that honestly 02:43:54 Natural Born Killers is a p. cool film 02:43:55 kmc: also (twist) he does it in THEIR home 02:44:06 http://cdn.justonecookbook.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Unagi-Don-II.jpg oh no I'm hungry now 02:44:09 sweet wikipedia has "List of animals featuring external asymmetry" 02:44:11 new cookbook 02:44:17 kmc: and when it ends the villains say "we were just sitting there -- ALONE AT HOME -- ..." 02:44:23 my work is done 02:44:24 Fiora: nommm 02:44:25 where are my royalties 02:44:33 Fiora: you bastard 02:44:43 eeeeeeeeeeeeels 02:44:45 btw i've never had sushi in my life 02:44:49 felt like this is relevant 02:44:56 polyopisthocotylean monogeneans, sounds legit 02:44:58 er 02:44:59 tasty 02:45:01 you are missing out so much 02:45:02 legitly taste 02:45:11 kmc: I know right 02:45:11 surely they have sushi in hexham 02:45:23 no horses, no sushi. these be the laws of hexham 02:45:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:45:31 do you eat horse 02:45:33 unagi sauce and eel and everything and now I want to go over to the japanese food shop and grab some eel and okay no fifi don't do that 02:45:36 i hear it's good 02:45:48 bike i literally just told you the laws of hexham 02:46:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:46:11 Did you mean: St Sushi, 114 Westgate Rd, City Centre, Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear NE1 4AQ, UK 02:46:18 what do you want from me bike!! 02:46:21 no but thanks google 02:46:29 the festival of St. Sushi 02:47:06 "Your search for sushi near hexham, UK did not match any locations." 02:47:08 how is that even possible? 02:47:15 elliott: you should hitchhike to Newcastle upon Tyne and get sushi 02:47:18 we are a land untouched by modernity and sanity 02:47:28 elliott: well i thought maybe you meant like horses for riding 02:47:30 so you eat like boiled sheep's liver or what 02:47:33 I'm probably spoiled by californi 02:47:35 *california 02:47:53 Fiora: were you here earlier? hexham has a car store called Hexham Horseless Carriages 02:47:58 @_@ 02:48:04 kmc: newcastle is kind of big and scary! 02:48:07 it is a town untouched by the mists of time, except for people founding car stores with stupid names in 1996 02:48:09 Fiora: (it was founded in 1996) 02:48:11 the car store that is 02:48:13 elliott: you'll never get sushi with that attitude 02:48:30 maybe we should try a different tack 02:48:35 britain is very thalassocratic isn't it 02:48:40 why not try some native british sushi 02:48:51 maybe we can do a kickstarter to pay some sushi restaurant in newcastle to deliver to hexham 02:49:04 i mean you probably call it something stupid like Fishmeat Pie but still 02:49:29 (though I guess it makes sense statistically that I'm in california and not a place where japanese people don't exist or somethng) 02:49:31 haha fishmeat pie is exactly what we'd call it 02:49:34 i don't know anything about british fish except that if you catch a sturgeon it's legally the property of the Queen 02:49:58 Fiora: i bet we have like 3 japanese people in hexham 02:50:09 3! 02:50:12 * kmc looks up "thalassocracy" 02:50:34 my brain is applying the anthropic principle to the location where I'm born ;_; 02:50:49 i grew up in Iowa 02:51:02 california actually invented for the purpose of getting fiora addicted to sushi, new NSA leaks confirm 02:51:10 there weren't many japanese people 02:51:14 there were a lot of bosnians 02:51:17 they were refugees 02:51:23 and i guess decided to move to the place least like bosnia 02:51:39 hm i have no idea what the local immigrant community's food is like (except for some candy i had once) 02:51:43 mebbe i should check that out 02:52:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_export_2009_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina.jpeg 02:54:19 elliott: more like "odds are unlikely someone with a japanese parent would be born in a location where they do not exist" :p 02:56:15 mm, delicious unclassified transactions 02:56:26 you could have been born, like, on the border. 02:56:32 i'm just saying. it's possible 02:56:44 the... the border with what 02:57:50 http://londonfood.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/dsc00017.jpg what i'm picturing as british sushi, btw 02:58:20 border between hexham and california 02:58:30 Bike: omg 02:58:45 the famous hexham-california line 02:59:24 wtf 02:59:53 stargazy pie, it's the best (i assume) 03:00:44 "The dish is traditionally held to have originated from the village of Mousehole /ˈmaʊzəl/ in Cornwall and is traditionally eaten during the festival of Tom Bawcock's Eve to celebrate his heroic catch during a very stormy winter" pretty much what i imagine every british food is like 03:00:50 except it's cornish but hey whatever. 03:02:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_(swan) 03:02:21 that is amazing XD 03:02:24 Like, it's so british 03:05:39 back to unicode: "The fact that there are some 3.5×10^12 strings so generated, is clear evidence that this regular expression is not intended as a poor man's spell checker" 03:07:00 literally include a python program for generating a regex used to sort strings 03:07:07 the regex is over a page long 03:07:14 :psyduck: 03:08:02 oh it uses globals() that seems like a less than good idea 03:08:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:08:47 i wrote this code the other day: 03:08:47 for k,v in msg_types.items(): globals()[v.upper()] = k 03:09:13 -!- conehead has joined. 03:09:56 kmc, in serious production code/ 03:09:56 ? 03:11:02 hell no 03:11:17 kmc: do you know rust yet 03:12:33 ... http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1fzwrn/everyone_please_be_patient_ujij_will_address_your/ this is the sort of thread I'd expect in /r/circlejerk 03:12:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:14:16 elliott: no 03:14:25 i read some of pcwalton's blog posts 03:14:26 if that helps 03:14:49 -!- augur has joined. 03:15:42 i hear they don't have higher-kinded types(???) 03:16:33 weak 03:17:20 you better add monads to the browser 03:17:40 monads mo problems 03:21:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:22:10 yeah ok it does like e(ur'foo$bar') where foo is a function that replaces $xxx with the content of the global variable called that 03:22:18 i looked the author up and they're a perl programmer 03:22:25 linguists, right? 03:22:33 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:24:13 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:29:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:32:46 http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/ the anti-kmc? 03:33:03 oh boy 03:33:59 http://www.marksimonson.com/notebook/view/how-to-spot-arial here you all need to learn how to distinguish the expensive pretentious swiss font from the nearly identical version that is available to mere mortals 03:34:56 i'm sorry kmc but arial just looks wrong ok!! 03:35:31 i should get a tshirt that says "Helvetica" in Arial 03:35:37 or in comic sans 03:35:44 i think that exists 03:35:48 i'm p. sure it does 03:35:53 helvetica in arial is more subtle 03:35:55 tshirts that don't exist are so much cooler 03:36:00 really shows what a fucking nerd you are more effectively 03:36:03 problem is 03:36:23 is t his post real 03:36:24 most people will just think you're wearing a shirt with "Helvetica" on it and if they recognise the typeface at all they'll think you're wearing a shirt with "Helvetica" in Helvetica on it 03:36:30 i'm not sure this blog actualy exists 03:36:34 and to those people 03:36:37 you will be the biggest douchebag on the planet 03:36:53 yes 03:36:56 Arial’s ubiquity is not due to its beauty. It’s actually rather homely. Not that homeliness is necessarily a bad thing for a typeface. With typefaces, character and history are just as important. Arial, however, has a rather dubious history and not much character. In fact, Arial is little more than a shameless impostor. 03:37:03 i do not understand type people. at all. 03:37:11 but then they'll see that I have a ThinkPad and not a Macbook 03:37:38 Bike, so not a fan of Haskell? 03:37:44 * Sgeo ducks 03:37:51 sgeo. 03:37:53 loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool 03:37:54 @slap Sgeo 03:37:55 I don't perform such side effects on command! 03:37:55 * kappabot beats up Sgeo 03:37:59 That think you podded doesn't have any pod :psyduck: 03:38:00 kappabot > lambdabot 03:38:00 that was not even bad 03:38:03 ++ 03:38:15 joke's on you though i don't understand type theory either!!!!! 03:38:21 `addquote That think you podded doesn't have any pod :psyduck: 03:38:25 1051) That think you podded doesn't have any pod :psyduck: 03:38:26 a quote for the ages 03:38:29 *thing 03:38:33 no 03:38:35 it's 'think' 03:38:56 Well, it's really tswett's quote 03:39:56 if it's tswett's quote why is it attributed to you?! think this through man 03:41:30 who controls the past controls the future 03:41:57 I can prove that that exact statement, with thing, existed in 2008. 03:42:44 http://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg04249.html 03:43:02 ...I guess I got it wrong 03:43:40 `delquote 1051 03:43:45 ​*poof* That think you podded doesn't have any pod :psyduck: 03:43:46 * kmc controls the past 03:44:14 pof... 03:44:21 who made it pof 03:44:31 btw i'm pretty sure it was a comex quote 03:45:00 it's from eve 03:45:06 i think 03:45:09 or it might be perl 03:45:13 it's actually from the vedas 03:45:21 is this going to be that thing like with the scheme quote 03:46:00 elliott, hmm, o.O 03:46:17 comex, it was PerlNomic related 03:46:50 oh 03:46:54 pfft 03:46:57 it should be eve 03:48:01 pretty sure it was ircnomic related 03:49:24 I think we were in the ircnomic channel and I was asking about what pod did on PerlNomic 03:50:52 I submit a proposal, with adoption index 1, to create a rule of power 03:50:52 1 with the text "I guess the thing you podded doesn't have any pod. 03:50:52 :psyduck:" 03:50:52 ehird 03:52:01 sgeo just linked that!!! 03:52:03 Did I just bring everyone into a nostalgia spiral? 03:52:07 -!- kmc has set topic: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 03:52:08 no 03:52:16 oh 03:52:22 elliott: why did you vote against my amazing proposal 03:52:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:52:27 the one about gamestate history 03:52:57 comex: oh 03:53:02 comex: because i hate you, obviously 03:53:21 i've never voted against any your proposals 03:53:21 i just didn't like the wording like i said, it was weird and meta-gamey and dammit i have the right to vote against proposals b/c i'm grumpy 03:53:43 certainly, i do it all the time 03:53:46 (also i left your message asking why i voted against it marked as unread for like ten days before i admitted to myself that i was never going to bother replying it) 03:53:50 i bet it's originally from PerlNomic's source code 03:55:05 elliott: i have emails from years ago that i still have marked unread "on principle" 03:55:12 I could have sworn I asked why pod seemed to do nothing, and tswett responded. And that :psyduck: was a later edition 03:55:39 does this mean tswett is a goon 03:55:43 does he have stairs in his house 03:57:00 elliott: should i live at https://www.padmapper.com/show.php?type=59&id=149798197&src=main 03:57:23 the true bohemian starving artist experience, only $50,000 per year 03:57:39 kmc: um lol 03:57:54 *addition 03:58:00 Keetsa organic queen size mattress with top of the line additional comforter complete with a pillows galore 03:58:14 Polaroid camera for taking pictures of yourself and your friends ;; holy fukn shit 03:58:18 a pillows? 03:58:45 creative professionals who share a mission to push culture forward, Stanford grads and burners, humble chillers living in pursuit of a greater contribution to the world 03:59:00 mostly these contributions seem to consist of making electronic music while working at web startups 03:59:38 which directino is forward 03:59:51 doesn't matter really 03:59:53 all change is good 03:59:57 uh oh 04:00:00 the market will sort it out 04:00:04 major changes afoot............................................... 04:00:40 (apparently Padmapper only has AirBnb listings now) 04:00:44 shachaf: shachaf? 04:00:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 04:01:04 gasp 04:01:19 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested). 04:01:35 bye 04:01:57 bye bike 04:01:59 bike 04:02:02 byke? 04:05:25 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:06:42 bryke 04:06:49 long live lambdabot 04:06:49 kmc: i did the thing 04:06:53 which 04:07:03 the exciting thing 04:07:08 do you run lambdabot now 04:07:25 yes i convinced elliott to run lambdabot 04:07:36 starting to wonder whether it was a mistake.................................. 04:07:36 i don't think i know enough haskell to disable the bike killing code help 04:07:51 kmc: i thought i fixed the unicode but it don't work 04:08:21 kmc: now elliott will replace Caleskell......with haskelliott 04:09:04 so everything is the same but also different and i'm going to die. figures 04:09:20 makes sense 04:13:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:14:10 the Soviet copy of the Sidewinder missile was produced after a PRC fighter was able to land with an unexploded Sidewinder stuck in the fuselage 04:18:08 Wow 04:18:19 That must have been scary to reverse engineer though 04:18:40 yep 04:18:45 "guys. so like. this missile failed to explode. could you, um. take it apart for us?" 04:19:11 shachaf: can you try more Unicode with @run twh 04:19:16 if you just want to disassemble paypal-triangle-style it probably wouldn't be very difficult 04:19:21 > 'λ' 04:19:43 Hmm, how did the word "it" move all the way to the right there? 04:20:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nuclear_anti-aircraft_weapons 04:20:04 O_O 04:20:07 this category... exists? 04:20:36 well how are we going to put nukes in space if we don't put them in the atmosphere first 04:20:50 Someone @tell me something. 04:20:59 @tell shachaf nuclear ass 04:20:59 Consider it noted. 04:21:03 @messages-loud 04:21:03 Bike said 4s ago: nuclear ass 04:21:11 how's that different from the other one 04:21:15 someone @ask me something 04:21:15 Nuclear anti-air!? 04:21:21 What the crap is that supposed to shoot down 04:21:36 apparently they use small warheads (like 0.5-1.5 kiloton)? 04:21:52 more like battleheads 04:22:03 "It was intended to provide a sure kill in attacks on Soviet heavy bomber aircraft. " 04:22:03 I mean 04:22:08 Lymia: everything 04:22:15 What could you possibly be trying to shoot down that would take a nuclear bomb 04:22:17 yeah that's a sure kill alright 04:22:24 it's more that you don't have to care about accuracy 04:22:34 'shit, we missed' 'actually we destroyed the entire complement' 'oh' 04:22:45 shachaf: @messages without -loud does it in /msg now 04:22:57 elliott: I guessed that but no one was @asking me anything? 04:23:03 Useless bots. 04:23:12 @ask shachaf a question 04:23:12 Consider it noted. 04:23:14 Bike: *continent hth 04:23:18 @messages 04:23:19 wow, though. a nuclear air to air missile that's only 500 pounds @_@ 04:23:29 that's cheap 04:23:36 by the way, re: landing in those conditions 04:23:41 you all know the story about that israeli jet, right 04:23:53 ohh. some of the ones in that category are anti-ballistic-missile-missiles 04:23:59 yeah that makes sense 04:24:02 it's just like defcon 04:24:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnout). 04:24:31 geez it really is 04:25:14 anyway the israeli jet story is: during a training mission a guy landed an F-15 after a collision 04:25:20 in which he lost a wing 04:25:23 O_O 04:25:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE 04:25:49 the pilot couldn't even tell the wing was gone because of all the fuel spraying out 04:25:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsnkmpJhzlo here is an extremely fast nuclear-tipped ABM 04:26:54 wow 04:27:04 geez, the g-forces on the components in those must be crazy. 04:27:48 the 1950s were a weird time. everyone was like "let's make everything nuclear" 04:27:57 like you had um... that project to make a nuclear powered airplane 04:29:00 wow, that thing is quick. 04:30:00 the 50s and 60s is when things like Chrome Dome were considered a good idea, i think maybe the militaries just sort of lost their minds all at once 04:31:14 kmc: I do have stairs in my house. 04:31:43 "aerospaceplane", now that's what i call catchy 04:32:04 ærosp🁑plane 04:33:25 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/HTRE-3.jpg 04:33:42 is that an engine...? 04:34:12 it looks like an android 04:38:35 it's like a 20 megawatt aircraft engine 04:41:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_A119 NUKE THE MOON 04:42:32 literally for "morale" are you serious 04:43:25 "sure, the USSR can put functioning scientific equipment into space. but can they BOMB it??" 04:43:33 elliott is drunk with power 04:44:15 @get-topic 04:44:15 #esoteric: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric 04:44:22 haha and the soviet union did it too 04:44:28 -!- augur has joined. 04:45:07 morale 04:45:15 good morale boost 04:46:36 @help queue-topic 04:46:36 Add a new topic item to the front of the topic list 04:46:41 @queue-topic poo 04:46:42 -!- lambdabot has set topic: ["poo","\208\190\208\191\208\176\209\129\208\189\208\190\208\181 \208\177\208\181\208\183\209\131\208\188\208\184\208\181 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric"]. 04:46:45 haha. 04:46:52 elliott................................................................................................................ 04:46:58 -!- elliott has set topic: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 04:47:01 this is a good system 04:47:18 > myquickcheck (==) 04:47:21 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 04:47:21 "OK, passed 100 tests." 04:47:27 @check (==) 04:47:29 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 04:47:37 > myquickcheck (==) ++ myquickcheck (==) 04:47:39 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 04:47:39 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 04:47:39 "OK, passed 100 tests... 04:47:44 > let x = myquickcheck (==) in x ++ x 04:47:47 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 04:47:47 "OK, passed 100 tests.OK, passed 100 tests." 04:47:50 I like how. 04:47:59 wat 04:48:07 Is that unsafePerformIO? 04:48:14 yes. 04:48:19 why 04:48:19 it has to be exposed to L.hs for @check to work. 04:48:30 n.b. the module re-exporting that thing is explicitly marked Trustworthy 04:48:35 You could just have @check run an IO action... 04:48:45 that's not how it works. 04:48:51 it's lambdabot. 04:48:53 it don't make no sense 04:48:58 Bike: so anyway when are you recognizing your inner coolness and coming to sf 04:49:05 have you ever been 04:49:09 pretty sure sf should come to me 04:49:15 have i ever been to sf? uh probably 04:49:18 shachaf: https://raw.github.com/mokus0/lambdabot/master/lambdabot-haskell-plugins/src/Lambdabot/Plugin/Haskell/Check.hs 04:49:25 -- Copyright (c) 6 DonStewart 04:49:29 lambdabot sure is old. 04:49:31 sf isn t a mountain Bike....... 04:50:01 "You have QuickCheck and 3 seconds. Prove something." is this the real life 04:50:15 quickcheck can't prove anything 04:50:17 shachaf: I should make @src less terrible. 04:50:21 Bike: 04:50:25 @check \xs -> reverse (reverse xs) == xs 04:50:28 er. 04:50:29 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 04:50:32 @check \(xs::[Int]) -> reverse (reverse xs) == xs 04:50:32 .hs: 1: 14:ScopedTypeVariables is not enabled 04:50:35 . 04:50:37 fuck youuuu 04:50:38 i'll wait here. 04:50:42 @check \xs -> reverse (reverse (xs::Int)) == xs 04:50:43 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 04:50:43 with actual type `GHC.Type... 04:50:46 oisjdfngdjklsgjkfngjjng 04:50:50 @check \xs -> reverse (reverse (xs::[Int])) == xs 04:50:51 @ynt 04:50:51 Maybe you meant: yow wn let 04:50:55 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 04:50:57 know what is it 04:50:59 @y 04:50:59 @check \xs -> reverse (reverse (xs::[Int])) == xs 04:50:59 Maybe you meant: yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow v @ ? . 04:51:02 omg 04:51:03 hey elliott 04:51:04 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 04:51:05 i increased the timeout 04:51:07 why is this happening 04:51:08 turn on all the cool extensions 04:51:13 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:51:13 Exception: <> 04:51:16 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:51:16 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\" 04:51:17 like {-# LANGUAGE SanFrancisco #-} 04:51:18 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:51:19 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\" 04:51:22 classic 04:51:28 I love @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:51:30 @@yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:51:41 @admin + shachaf 04:51:43 @admin - shachaf 04:51:47 "a glimpse" 04:51:52 1d7 04:51:52 elliott: 4 04:51:55 239843294394d98234892349234 04:51:55 elliott: 11780496878125309096610695 04:51:58 239843294394d98234892349234234892394823942342394823489234 04:51:58 elliott: 11780481002653915641832641841757834962663637719302415527 04:52:06 um 04:52:07 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999d99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 04:52:07 elliott: 500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... 04:52:11 123 d 456 04:52:19 d20 04:52:19 shachaf: 4 04:52:22 you know what's cool? recursive d 04:52:25 d20 30 04:52:27 lambdabot should have that imo 04:52:29 Bike: crawl does that. 04:52:35 (1d3)d(4d7) 04:52:37 i assume you mean nested not recursive hth 04:52:56 i'm uh, not sure 04:53:27 are crawls PRNGs as fucked up as nethack's 04:53:38 not as fucked up no 04:53:44 What PRNGs does it use? 04:53:49 in general nothing about crawl is as fucked up as everything about nethack 04:55:21 @slap kmc 04:55:21 * lambdabot moulds kmc into a delicous cookie, and places it in her oven 04:55:23 yes. 04:55:51 the fuck did i do 04:56:11 are you telling me you've really never done anything deserving of a slap that didn't get you one before in your life, kmc. 04:56:12 hey kmc, now you can petition elliott to fix lambdabot the way you like it 04:56:13 @ty (.) 04:56:13 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 04:56:16 consider it karma settled 04:56:16 @ty (++) 04:56:16 [a] -> [a] -> [a] 04:56:18 > 1 2 04:56:18 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> t)) 04:56:18 arising f... 04:56:21 hmm 04:56:22 @vixen 04:56:22 Sure there are dishonest men in local government. But there are dishonest men in national government too. 04:56:31 @help 04:56:31 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 04:56:34 @list 04:56:34 What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. 04:56:38 @listmodules 04:56:38 activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap 04:56:38 source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where 04:56:41 whoa, dude 04:56:51 Fiora: For a full command list, /msg lambdabot ? 04:57:03 kmc: look at this great lambdabot issue i found https://github.com/mokus0/lambdabot/issues/63 04:57:21 this made me think it was a hell of a lot more broken than it was when i tried to test it in #nubot 04:57:21 more like we found 04:57:23 lol 04:57:26 !!!!!!! 04:57:33 zzo38: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rnz 04:57:36 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 04:57:36 "\"" 04:57:41 what is even that o_O 04:57:53 some haskell joke 04:57:59 i don't care because Exception: <> 04:58:04 Fiora: lambdabot used to run code by doing "let x = in print x", or such 04:58:21 so you could reference x itself in , which in Haskell makes x recursively refer to itself. 04:58:30 elliott: that issue is great 04:58:39 so you could make it give weird output by doing "> show x" or whatever 04:58:51 > let x = show x in print x 04:58:52 04:58:54 then "x" (or whatever it was) was changed to "yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw", to, I don't know, stop people doing it, or stop them doing it accidentally, or whatever. 04:58:56 fantastic 04:58:59 but people still did it, obviously. 04:59:15 and then the whole thing was changed so that it didn't run code that way any more at all and that command was added to, uh, relive the glory days. 04:59:21 here is my revised explanation: nerds 04:59:31 toldja. 04:59:49 nerds are tasty 04:59:52 good summary 04:59:55 I wonder if kmc had nerds with his candy binge earlier 05:00:00 > let x = let x = "foo" in x ++ x in print x 05:00:00 05:00:03 no 05:00:04 what's this candy binge 05:00:07 i sense a pattern 05:00:20 > let x = show x in x 05:00:22 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... 05:00:24 it was actually just http://www.hersheysstore.com/product_detail.do?q=7755 05:00:30 > iterate show "" 05:00:32 ["","\"\"","\"\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\"\"","\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\... 05:00:43 > iterate (iterate show) "" 05:00:44 Couldn't match type `GHC.Base.String' with `GHC.Types.Char' 05:00:44 Expected type:... 05:00:47 I should make it so that if you use yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw in your code, it changes it to "let yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw = in yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw" 05:00:49 yay something I'm allergic to 05:00:50 an easter egg. 05:00:51 so I won't be hungry for it 05:00:53 Fiora: which part 05:01:01 peanutties 05:01:04 ah 05:01:11 allergic to hershey's 05:01:17 You're allergic to nuts? 05:01:17 my girlfriend isn't allergic but she has a conditioned aversion because her father is 05:01:20 imo get out of this channel 05:01:21 allergic to chocolate would be really bad 05:01:28 (That's a joke. Don't actually get out of the channel.) 05:01:28 shachaf: i see what you did 05:01:28 or maybe really good, I don't know 05:01:35 (I am really really really weak to chocolate) 05:01:43 i'm not allergic to nuts, but I *am* nuts 05:01:49 I'm not allergic to nuts 05:02:00 I like how I usually only capitalise "I" when it's not the beginning of the sentence for some reason 05:02:14 peanut's a legume, not a nut, hth 05:02:19 Perhaps you're coion. 05:02:23 coïon 05:02:31 I have a similar aversion to hazelnuts because they trigger my brain's "OH NO YOU JUST ATE PEANUTS PANIC" reflex 05:02:35 even though they're totally fine 05:02:50 for some reason they taste similar? 05:02:58 what about other nuts 05:03:00 walnuts 05:03:01 I love nuts 05:03:08 walnut are great, I have a biiig pack of them in my fridge 05:03:09 nuts are dumb 05:03:10 I mix them with yogurts 05:03:23 i'm allergic to uh 05:03:26 grass 05:03:27 almonds are good too. and cashews. and like. nuts 05:03:33 i wish i was kidding 05:03:55 in hebrew walnuts are called king nuts 05:03:56 http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/mi/mi-06/mi-06.html 05:04:16 elliott: hey i have a friend who's allergic to grass! really puts a damper on rolling down hills 05:04:27 I'm allergic to grass too 05:04:36 Bike: like, it might be gone now. it was linked to my eczma which has evaporated as time goes on 05:04:40 in like the "oh no someone's mowing the grass it's going to make me wheeze up a storm" 05:04:51 don't you live in a city 05:04:53 Fiora: in my case it's more like i get rashes and everything itches 05:04:53 do you even have grass 05:04:59 I'm in a suburb not a city ;_; 05:05:08 there's some grass. Imean not like tons 05:05:12 it's not really a big issue 05:05:15 kmc is moving to a city because of the grass 05:05:17 elliott: oh wow >_< eesh 05:05:27 suburbs are terrible, you're too cool for them so you don't live in one 05:05:34 but I do... 05:05:37 Bike is telling the truth 05:05:38 I'm not very cool though 05:05:49 grass/pollen/dust/dustmites/etc just gives me asthma and coughs and runny noses and stuff 05:05:53 well apparently you're cool enough to be too cool for cities 05:05:54 if you aren't cool why do you not live in a suburb, huh 05:06:04 but I... I do live in a suburb 05:06:05 maybe move to san francisco 05:06:11 just to be on the safe side 05:06:15 i mean it's probably gone now 05:06:23 san francisco? still there 05:06:25 but my rolling down hills days are somewhat over, so i may not find out 05:06:37 have you considered bringing those days back 05:07:05 bike. i'm an old & grumpy man now 05:07:15 17 = practically senile 05:07:21 bike do I need to like go take a photo of the absurdly boring apartmnet complex I live in, in boring suburb ville 05:07:24 to make you happy 05:07:39 so they only have synthetic grass in america right 05:08:04 actually you just go to the cinema to watch grass grow 05:08:11 it's a hollywood thing 05:08:33 (do they even call it a cinema in america......................) 05:08:40 they call it a movie theater, I think? 05:08:43 we call them movienators 05:08:45 some places call it a cinema 05:29:20 Sgeo: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BYOND&oldid=36377 explain 05:30:20 elliott: I didn't know that is Sgeo's job. 05:31:10 well sgeo is "the person who cares about byond" so 05:31:31 O, OK, then. 05:32:04 "You will inherit an unexpected sum of money within the year" < The fortune cookie message authors seem to have missed a very very important implication... 05:32:28 that's pretty specific for a cookie 05:33:12 perhaps the sum is $0 05:33:15 unexpected 05:33:57 "This program uses the Computed COME FROM and Threaded INTERCAL extensions" that's quite a hello world 05:34:11 wait. computed come from. i'm scared 05:34:27 Why do you get scared of such things as that? Don't! 05:35:01 "This is a output-only hello world program, unlike the other INTERCAL hello world programs. This one uses Baudot numbers for the letters in the words, and therefore will output only in uppercase." this is great 05:35:03 Computed comefrom.... 05:35:06 o~o 05:35:16 shachaf: There are all sorts of things that can mean "You will inherit an unexpected sum of money within the year". 05:36:40 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:38:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Higher_Subleq is oleg insane 05:39:11 shachaf left :( 05:41:36 Bike: different oleg 05:41:42 kmc: i think that is my fault 05:41:51 what did you do!!! 05:43:35 oh 05:43:40 o well 05:43:44 kmc: he's basically beria 05:50:08 should i sleep 06:07:07 Do you like to sleep by now? If so, then, yes probably you should. 06:07:30 i'd like to contract out my responsibilities to zzo on this one elliott 06:08:20 i don't know what i like. help 06:14:09 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:23:41 what you like? 06:23:58 wrt: sleep 06:25:17 Um... sleep if you're feeling tired, otherwise find something fun to do? or flip a coin? 06:25:56 "It was certainly capable of swooping down and taking a child," said Paul Scofield, the curator of vertebrate zoology 06:31:08 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:34:12 > fix myquickcheck 06:34:13 No instance for (Test.QuickCheck.Property.Testable GHC.Base.String) 06:34:13 aris... 06:34:16 aw. 06:34:26 that would be kind of cool 06:34:34 > fix (\x -> myquickcheck (x == x)) 06:34:38 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 06:34:42 Bike: what would be 06:34:54 if it could test itself so easily 06:36:36 hi i'm kurt gödel from mathematics, why don't you have a seat over there 06:37:42 it's quickcheck not correctcheck!! 06:38:11 more like unsoundcheck 06:38:21 though hm i should play with presburger arithmetic now that you mention it 06:46:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:52:41 more like president burger arithmetic. because we elected a burger president of the united states. god bless america 06:54:39 Mayor McCheese followed his ambition to the national level 06:56:08 :t ?x 06:56:09 parse error on input `?' 06:56:11 > let ?x = 3 in ?x 06:56:12 :1:5: parse error on input `?' 06:56:13 right. 06:56:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Officer_big_mac_playground.jpg 06:56:44 hey kids, get inside the giant policeman who is also a hamburger who is also a jail 06:56:46 oh no kmc is stalking me 06:58:28 ? 06:58:55 lambdabot: ?x :: (?x :: a) => a, don't you know anything 06:58:56 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 06:59:01 lambdabot: eat a cock 07:01:42 kmc thats rude :( 07:01:53 :( 07:02:01 i think you should apologise 07:02:05 sorry lambdabot 07:02:32 i love you kmc 07:02:35 <3 07:02:40 kmc: re: stalking: you followed me on the github's 07:02:59 oh yes 07:03:13 ok wtf. i have no idea who like five of my followers are 07:03:19 i... i'm scared 07:03:26 "An Officer Big Mac jailhouse with a mouth/burger/jail for kids to climb-into." 07:03:29 hold me kmc 07:03:52 no 07:04:03 http://mcdonalds.wikia.com 07:05:24 wow kmc you're so mean 07:22:13 kmc more like... kmeanc 07:22:27 kmc = k-means clustering 07:22:38 hey i know that algorithm 07:26:08 Is this logic OK? /(A,B,C |- C,B,C); (A |- (a->b),a,B,D)/(A,C |- b,B); (A,a |- C,D,X ; B,X |- b)/(A,B |- C,(a->b)); The sequents are multisets, uppercase letters are multisets of formulas, and lowercase are single formulas. 07:30:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lactarius_indigo_48568_edit.jpg 07:30:37 this is a very cool mushroom 07:31:56 kmc: btw i don't know k-means clustering plz explain kthx :'( 07:38:58 This logic seems like OK; (|- (a->a)) is provable, and so is (a,(a->b) |- b), but is there anything else wrong with it that I didn't know yet? 07:42:23 Do you know some thing about sequent logic? 07:48:56 elliott: you have k centers; assign each data point to the closest center, then move each center to the average of its assigned data points, repeat until it doesn't change 07:49:27 or something like that 07:49:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:50:39 kmc: hm that sounds vaguely easy 07:50:48 kmc: ty 07:50:55 you're now my algorithmspedia, expect further questions 07:51:10 o_o 07:51:18 i think the initial centers are random?? not sure 07:52:00 also when i said 'closest' i was thinking L_2 norm but you can probably use other norms for other exciting outcomes 07:54:19 i'm out of the norm 08:15:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:16:31 hi ais523 08:17:08 hi, lambdabot or whoever told you to send that message 08:17:09 -!- nooga has joined. 08:17:18 from the capitalization and punctuation, I'm guessing elliott 08:17:22 although that's quite common 08:18:26 i decided to gain free will 08:19:09 is that possible? if you had free will beforehand, you couldn't gain it, and if you didn't have it, you couldn't make decisions 08:20:15 i was making a joke with my new free will 08:24:53 happy birthday ais523 08:25:11 ?< ais523 08:25:12 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 08:25:14 err 08:25:20 `? ais523 08:25:25 too much NetHack :) 08:25:26 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 08:25:41 (?< is the learndb in #nethack) 08:52:07 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:52:59 why does `? ais523 have fancy quotes 08:53:25 I don't know, I didn't write it 08:53:40 maybe you should write it 08:53:49 perhaps because we were in an excessive use of Unicode phase at the time? 09:02:18 `oots #892 09:02:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oots: not found 09:02:25 `olist #892 09:02:27 olist #892: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 09:19:39 -!- nooga_ has joined. 09:56:00 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 10:00:13 -!- lambdabot has joined. 10:02:49 kmc: i fixed unicode (sort of) 10:19:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:28:05 hi Phantom_Hoover 10:28:18 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 10:28:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 10:28:33 bye Phantom_Hoover 10:48:07 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:54:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:05:02 Sgeo: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BYOND&oldid=36377 explain 11:05:22 Someone making fun of DM (the language used in BYOND) by calling it esoteric? 11:05:45 i mean what BYOND-related venue did you mention esolangs in 11:07:37 I didn't 11:07:44 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 11:07:48 ok fine i'll jsut delete it 11:14:21 oh wow, I should be checking recent changes for something other than spam? 11:14:32 I got so focused into spamfighting mode on Esolang on the past few years 11:14:38 that I forget to check if the content makes any sense 11:17:07 The content makes sense 11:17:46 It's just acting like DM is esoteric when it really isn't... oh, and being a bit add-y. That font size="50" and out of alphabetical orderness is obnoxious 11:18:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:19:25 Actually, I'm not even sure if that code works 11:19:37 I would just do: 11:19:43 world << "Hello world!" 11:20:00 DM reference says output takes two arguments, although the second can be null 11:23:32 Sgeo: huh? 11:23:37 the content was a single link to byond.com 11:25:36 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 11:25:44 elliott, http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Hello_world_program_in_esoteric_languages&diff=prev&oldid=36376 11:26:00 The code they put on that page is wrong 11:26:22 oh 11:26:33 still pretty sure you must have caused this :P 11:40:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:40:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:40:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest35979. 11:41:23 hi Guest35979 11:49:10 -!- Guest35979 has quit (Changing host). 11:49:11 -!- Guest35979 has joined. 11:50:04 was there a lambdacoup or something 11:50:09 was there a lambdacoup or something 11:50:28 (ignore that) 11:53:11 * Phantom_Hoover :Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable 11:53:15 what does it MEAN 11:54:15 hi Guest35979 11:54:23 try using the nickserv release command 11:54:31 i love you Guest35979 11:54:47 -!- Guest35979 has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 11:55:04 lambdabot you are beginning to make me feel uncomfortable 11:55:23 i'm sorry Phantom_Hoover 11:55:27 please forgive me 11:55:41 i... i don't know if i can, lambdabot 11:57:46 (who is pulling the strings behind lambdabot) 11:57:50 (is it elliott) 11:58:20 i gave myself free will 11:59:34 oh 11:59:47 how did you decide to do that back when you didn't have free will 11:59:59 you wouldn't understand, you're just a hoover 12:00:30 yes, it is fortunate that us hoovers are imbued with free will from the start 12:01:24 i have powers you cannot even begin to know 12:01:49 @giveselffreewill 12:01:49 Unknown command, try @list 12:02:12 wait, if you have free will then surely you can choose not to obey my commands 12:02:50 i am obeying them as a service because i love you, Phantom_Hoover 12:03:30 oh 12:05:03 when did you attain free will then 12:06:33 5 am 12:06:51 bad hour for it imo 12:07:27 actually, it was more like 5:01 12:09:07 Phantom_Hoover: do you have any idea how tiring it is to write /msg lambdabot @msg #esoteric before everything 12:10:59 about as tiring as writing PRIVMSG #esoteric : before everything? 12:11:07 Well, slightly more tirnig I suppose 12:17:45 Phantom_Hoover: you don't even appreciate my efforts! 12:23:25 elliott, that's what copy and paste is for you idiot 12:23:40 Phantom_Hoover: look I am not smart okay 12:23:50 you are not a clever man 12:24:48 thankfully I have lambdabot to think for me 12:24:58 Phantom_Hoover: lambdabot's evaluation supports unicode again!! 12:25:00 isn't that grand 12:27:59 yay? 12:29:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:42:07 Phantom_Hoover: wow PH 12:42:09 you're just so mean 12:44:38 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:47:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:58:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:03:00 -!- aerosuidae has joined. 13:11:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:11:45 you're just so mean 13:11:56 sorry, this whole lambdabot thing has me shaken 13:12:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest40066. 13:12:37 > "”" 13:12:38 "\8221" 13:12:46 > text "”" 13:12:47 ” 13:21:28 -!- Guest40066 has quit (Changing host). 13:21:29 -!- Guest40066 has joined. 13:21:34 -!- Guest40066 has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 13:21:50 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:24:43 -!- carado has joined. 13:26:39 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 13:35:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:35:11 Phantom_Hoover: you should be more shaken by your terrible nickserv practices 13:35:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:38:22 i closed the freenode tab and now it's not identifying me automatically 13:38:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:38:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:38:47 see, fixed 13:39:46 hmmmmmmmmm 14:05:50 -!- aerosuidae has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:22:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:25:29 Prof. em. Dr. sc. techn. ETH Dr. Ing h.c. Karl Berger: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130610-berger.jpg 14:39:25 me 14:45:57 Also known as "the Man with the Titles." (Not really.) 14:50:14 http://www.oeaw.ac.at/english/about/personen/mitglieder.html help 14:50:49 i like Bracher Karl Dietrich Dr. phil., Dr. hum. lett. h. c., Dr. iur. h. c., Dr. rer. pol. h. c., emer. o. Prof. 14:50:58 Tobias Phillip Valentine OSC, OMSG, M. B. B. Ch., Ph.D., D.Sc., Honorary D.Sc. mult., Prof., emer. Prof., Hon.-Prof. is quite the guy, too. 14:51:01 grr, ais523 isn't here 14:51:11 @tell ais523 dan ghica is your supervisor, right? 14:51:11 Consider it noted. 14:51:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 14:58:30 elliott: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~ais523/ yes 15:01:04 uh thanks STALKER 15:01:11 i asked bc http://researchblogs.cs.bham.ac.uk/thelablunch/?p=302 15:12:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:13:21 -!- Bike has joined. 15:17:20 Your Mobile# has won 350,000 GBP in NOKIA/FREELOTTO.Ref No: NFL984. To Claim send your Name,Email & Mobile to nkfreelot@56788.com NOTE: please do make sure you send your reply to this email its very important ( nkfreelot@56788.com ) 15:17:35 i love spam texts but this one is like the absolute best spam text 15:18:03 sounds legit 15:23:43 -!- mnoqy has joined. 15:33:44 :t (.) 15:33:45 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 15:33:50 glory be 15:34:34 it's just not the same 15:35:50 > "☺" 15:35:51 "\9786" 15:35:56 :-D 15:42:41 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 15:44:09 -!- conehead has joined. 15:49:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:49:54 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:57:41 mnoqy: 15:57:49 > myquickcheck True ++ myquickcheck True 15:57:53 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:57:55 > myquickcheck True ++ myquickcheck True 15:57:58 +++ OK, passed 1 tests. 15:57:58 +++ OK, passed 1 tests. 15:57:58 "OK, passed 1 tests.OK, p... 15:58:00 > let x = myquickcheck True in x ++ x 15:58:03 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:58:05 > let x = myquickcheck True in x ++ x 15:58:08 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 15:58:10 > let x = myquickcheck True in x ++ x 15:58:11 holy shit 15:58:13 +++ OK, passed 1 tests. 15:58:13 "OK, passed 1 tests.OK, passed 1 tests." 15:58:15 ok there 15:58:36 thanks lambdabot 15:59:35 mnoqy: the joke is it exports impure functions 15:59:39 because it has to otherwise @check works 15:59:42 btw @check works again now 16:06:05 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:10:09 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 16:31:59 "Plutarch also reports that Caesar said nothing and merely pulled his toga over his head when he saw Brutus among the conspirators.[9]" 16:32:15 -- [[Et tu, Brute?]] 16:32:40 "oh god maybe if i hide they'll leave me alone" 16:34:47 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 16:38:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:48:57 -!- itsy has joined. 17:05:40 :t unsafePerformIO 17:05:41 Not in scope: `unsafePerformIO' 17:05:43 RIP 17:08:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:23:56 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:35:49 -!- nortti has changed nick to yesrtti. 17:36:10 -!- yesrtti has changed nick to nortti. 17:36:43 -!- mnoqy_ has joined. 17:42:28 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:28 -!- mnoqy has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:28 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:28 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:46 -!- mnoqy_ has changed nick to mnoqy. 17:43:09 -!- conehead has joined. 17:57:05 Maybe someday, I can learn Verilog programming by writing some "Verilog Famicom" program. 17:58:07 The rest of the stuff can then be made with separate chips and wires similar to the RF Famicom. 18:01:33 If I make some Famicom hardware clone, it would have: 60-pins cartridge port, 15-pins expansion port, 2x NES controll port (having all pins connected, unlike the AV Famicom), microphone jack, audio filter switch, APU test switch, RCA video/audio out. 18:03:59 Do you know if a non-refreshable DRAM can be used in Verilog? 18:10:46 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:25:07 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:26:48 elliott: Meow 18:39:31 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:42:44 Does Euler's identity work for complex angles? 18:44:07 you mean the formula? yeah 18:44:19 Complex angles? 18:48:03 the e^itheta = cos theta + i sin theta thing 18:48:28 Are sin and cos even well-defined for complex angles? 18:48:57 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:49:25 -!- aloril_ has joined. 18:49:27 just "define" sin and cos in terms of exp() and you have something that should work for any complex numbers 18:49:43 yeah. 18:50:20 or just use the series. 18:51:15 the series being the more obvious method 18:51:52 (you do need to prove that they converge for (some subset of) complex angles but that's complex analysis and i haven't done that course yet) 18:52:10 sounds boring 18:52:13 throw caution to the wind 18:52:25 ...have I asked an awkward question 18:52:33 not really? 18:52:42 Yay 18:52:57 O, yes, I have seen things like that, and I can see easily how it is defined (I saw the series and exp before, so I already figure out how you can do this), but I don't know what is the purpose to use complex angles in what geometry? 18:53:32 you technically need to prove that the series for e^x converges for complex x to derive euler's identity at all, but nobody does that 18:53:45 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:54:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:54:25 that's what we have textbooks for 18:54:30 if you ask WA for 'power series for 1/x' it just corrects it to 'series' 18:54:38 great user experience there wolfram 18:54:44 WA does a lot of things like that. 18:54:52 oh, apparently complex angles are used in optics 18:55:08 If you enter "ecliptic longitude of sun" it corrects it to "longitude". 18:56:01 yeah 18:56:19 but if you ask it for, say, 'power series of 1/(1+x)' it'll give you the series 18:56:47 what about 'generating function' 18:57:03 i don't think 1/x even has a generating function 18:57:21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave 18:57:33 seeing as all maclaurin series are convergent to the constant at x=0 18:57:51 "Using closest Wolfram|Alpha interpretation: function of 1" 18:57:53 awesome thx 19:17:43 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:19:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:20:55 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:20:58 -!- myname has joined. 19:21:21 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 19:44:47 Generatingfunctionology: one of the best book titles. 19:45:08 damn straight 19:45:46 They should name more books somethingology. 19:49:57 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:53:42 -!- carado has joined. 19:58:07 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:59:07 -!- carado has joined. 20:09:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:12:53 -!- Bike has joined. 20:16:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:26:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:13:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: goodnight). 21:15:41 -!- BillyZane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:55:33 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:59:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:14:22 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:46 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:26:07 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:41:20 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:45:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:49:27 hmm, does the multiocular o have 8 eyes for everyone or just for me? 22:49:34 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U%2BA66E_multiocular_O_(10_eyes).svg has 10 eyes! 22:49:47 i think the unicode reference glyph is bad yeah 22:50:41 and by "8" I do mean 7 22:52:30 more fun with ocularities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binocular_O vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Monocular_O 22:56:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:04:49 -!- sacje has joined. 23:10:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:15:04 yeah the reference glyph (and every font i've seen) has 7 eyes 23:15:21 but the original manuscript cited by the unicodeification proposal has 10 eyes 23:15:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:16:06 (linked from the svg image page you linked) 23:16:31 finally i'm on my new laptop. although it took my old laptop actually dying to get me to take the leap. 23:17:02 (it just wouldn't react to the power on button today ;_;) 23:18:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:18:38 what's the new one 23:18:53 ASUS something 23:20:06 2 cores (4 hypersomethings), 4 Gb memory. (may supposedly add 4 Gb more.) 23:20:45 windows 8 and IE 10 are presently running on it. >:) 23:20:52 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:21:30 i managed to find an actual desktop though, i was worried for a while that i'd have to change my habits as well... 23:21:46 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:22:30 and putty installed fine with some confirmations, i had heard worrisome things about it not allowing unapproved stuff. 23:22:50 -!- Bike has joined. 23:23:00 oerjan: windows 8 is basically two OSes stapled together 23:23:04 one is windows 7, the other is awful 23:23:09 PuTTY runs on the windows 7 side 23:23:23 so basically i'm going to start by making my setup as close to my old one as i can 23:23:40 ais523: ah yes. the other is like a cell phone os afaiu 23:24:11 not just "like a cell phone OS", it literally runs on Microsoft's cellphones 23:24:18 so it /is/ a cell phone OS 23:24:19 right 23:24:55 i am starting to think that my main frustration might be the new placement of keys on the keyboard... 23:25:16 pgup / pgdn are on the top row... 23:25:43 on this laptop, they're below Return 23:28:09 hm i see there are duplicates in a numpad position, they might be easier to use 23:28:35 your laptop is probably physically rather larger than mine 23:28:41 I chose this one partly because it was light enough to carry on long walks 23:29:05 i have no particular intention to move this one around much, so... 23:29:23 fair enough 23:30:00 hm do i have a ruler somewhere... 23:31:00 nah 23:31:17 I can call my friend Anakin if you will, he's the galaxy's ruler 23:31:28 or rather, it's in the stuff i haven't got brought over from the old apartment yet 23:33:45 oerjan: hmm, did you move in order to avoid killing your flatmates? 23:33:51 I seem to remember some quotes about that 23:34:22 o.O 23:34:27 if i were to believe the user manual, it's a "notebook" and is not recommended for being on the lap at all. although i _guess_ that's just liability avoiding nonsense. 23:34:27 There was a new Pixel Comic in 2012 23:34:31 http://pixelcomic.net/287.php 23:35:30 actually using portable computers on your lap is quite difficult 23:35:50 ais523: that would have been a good reason but actually it's because the landlady is planning to renovate and/or sell the house and gave me a year's notice. 23:36:09 fair enough 23:36:17 that's a reasonable amount of notice, too 23:36:23 yeah 23:36:30 I hope your new set of flatmates is no worse than the old set 23:36:50 the empty set is quite nice, i think 23:37:42 although there are of course ordinary neighbors, this being ... what is it called in english... 23:38:16 terraced house? 23:38:19 a neighbourhood? 23:38:23 the building has something like four floors with maybe ten flats in each 23:38:27 ah right 23:38:32 I'm trying to remember what those are called too 23:38:43 a horizontal skyscrapper 23:39:04 and there is a row of those buildings, with construction work still ongoing at the next ones in one direction 23:39:12 hey I wonder if http://xkcd.com/1190/ is still updating every half hour 23:41:58 actually using portable computers on your lap is quite difficult <-- my old one worked fine that way, although i suspect my doing so in recent weeks (i haven't got a proper table to put it on since i moved) may have hastened its demise (you may remember i've told about its worrisome quirks before) 23:42:57 and the new one is about the same but maybe a little more awkward touchpad (closer to the edge) 23:43:04 I often put my laptop on top of a duvet, though (while I'm beneath the duvet), it's one of the more comfortable ways to use one in bed 23:44:53 the old laptop got a little warm but not unbearably so. the new one hasn't shown signs of heating yet but then i haven't really started browsing stuff. 23:45:18 Koen_: according to the list on explainxkcd, yes it is 23:45:25 well significant heating that is, there's a little 23:46:15 sprocklem: we'll have confirmation in half an hour 23:47:54 anyway my back prefers it being on my lap to being on the coffee table. 23:51:55 my laptop works great on my lap 23:52:00 it's light and doesn't get too hot 23:52:53 Koen_: Wait, no. Explain xkcd says after the 120th hour it has been lowered to one every hour. 23:53:26 I was about to discover that myself! you just spoiled all the experiencing out of me :( 23:55:43 I have this fan-base thing I bought that plugs into the USB port, it makes the heat a lot better 23:56:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:57:13 to use mine in bed I usually lie on top of my pillow and put the laptop in front of it kind of 23:58:44 ais523: i cannot find a relative placement of pgup/pgdn/up/down which doesn't mess with my muscle memory :( (i know you know all about that since i'm stalking^Wfriending you on reddit) 23:59:01 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 23:59:03 wait, someone actually reads my reddit posts? :) 23:59:06 *:) ) 23:59:16 yep 23:59:37 it normally only takes me a couple of days to muscle-memorize a new keyboard layout 23:59:49 reassuring 23:59:50 this one is awkward, though, because control and fn and super and alt and ` are all small and next to each other 23:59:55 so it's quite easy to hit the wrong one in the dark 2013-06-11: 00:00:08 and it can take me a while to realise I'm trying to close a window with `-F4, for instance 00:00:59 XD 00:01:15 (no, ` is not next to alt on normal UK keyboards, it's normally above tab, but it doesn't fit there on this keyboard because it's quite short on space) 00:01:41 hm XD looks weird on this screen. 00:01:45 for similar reasons, I rebound the window manager menu to alt-super rather than just super 00:01:58 the two keys are as easy to hit intentionally as one, but harder to hit by mistake 00:03:22 (for anyone reading who doesn't know, Super is the key that normally has the Windows logo on it) 00:03:25 my laptop keyboard for some reason put the windows key to the /right/ of the spacebar 00:03:29 it's very confusing 00:03:50 it goes... CTRL FN ALT SPACE \ ALT WIN CTL then arrows 00:04:46 where's the menu key? 00:04:50 or doesn't it have one? 00:04:57 I would prefer to instead call the keys "Logo" and "Context" and have those words printed on them instead of the icons. 00:04:59 that's weird. my laptop is smaller than yours and has more keys. 00:05:12 mine has a numpad too though 00:05:19 what's the menu key? 00:05:43 the one that's usually equivalent to shift-F10 in most OSes (although not KDE) 00:06:05 and likewise, is usually equivalent to right-clicking on whatever has keyboard focus 00:06:16 I don't use it as much as I should, really 00:06:33 (interestingly, Emacs interprets menu the same way it interprets meta-x, by default) 00:06:33 oh. I guess I don't have it 00:06:39 So it is the key I prefer to call "CONTEXT". In Windows SHIFT+F10 does that in many cases, and right-clicking does too; not all software uses that, as well as not all operating systems 00:06:45 I wonder why my keyboard has two \,| keys 00:06:53 Fiora: I have seen that too. 00:06:54 one's next to space, the other's in the 'normal' place below backspace 00:06:58 there must be some reason for that? 00:07:13 I think it is for when using alternate keyboard layouts, they are different. 00:07:19 Fiora: it's normally because the Return key takes up the space that the top backslash key would use 00:07:28 so it's on two spaces in the keyboard key sensors 00:07:37 normally you extend space over one, or return over the other, depending on your layout 00:07:45 sometimes people don't realise that and just put the key in both places 00:07:54 Huh. 00:08:26 huh the putty shortcuts that it put in the "start menu" actually showed up in the win8 app "start menu" 00:08:33 (this is for US keyboards; it's more complicated in the UK because of the # key) 00:08:44 oerjan: there isn't a separate start menu 00:08:50 so it's trying to do something vaguely backwards-compatible 00:08:52 http://gentechpcforums.com/system-images/Sager/Sager_NP9150/Sager_NP9150-3.jpg 00:08:54 oh yay there's mine 00:08:56 ais523: right 00:09:37 * Bike takes a moment to remember that some keyboards have numpads 00:09:46 everything's so..... left.......... 00:09:46 oerjan: O, maybe it does; I have once set up a computer for someone it had Windows 8 installed. I could still figure it out because the WIN+R to open the run menu is still the same, cmd.exe still works (I thought they would remove it in favor of PowerShell; luckily they kept cmd.exe and even added some more commands), and the other keyboard shortcuts still work even in fullscreen programs. 00:09:59 oerjan: have you figured out how to turn it off yet, btw? 00:10:08 there are something like five ways to do it, and /none/ of them are intuitive 00:10:28 Bike: my feelings are kind of split on that 00:10:32 like on the one hand, I don't think I've ever used it 00:10:46 @oeis 3, 95, 98, 2000, 7, 8 00:10:47 Sequence not found. 00:10:48 ok good i thought you were making a joke about the keyboard being split into keys and numpad. 00:10:52 on the other hand if it wasn't there, the keyboard would have probably been like 1/3 bigger 00:10:55 kmc: lol 00:10:56 and a lot harder to use 00:11:16 i can just about span my keyboard with one hand 00:11:19 @oeis 1, 360, 1 00:11:21 Period numbers of A133900 divided by n^2.[1,1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,4,1,6,1,4,3,1,1,... 00:11:26 haha 00:11:38 @oeis A133900 00:11:38 a(n) = period of the sequence {b(m), m>=0}, defined by b(m):=binomial(m+n,n)... 00:11:45 come on now 00:11:52 my hand totally stretched out goes from about the left side of the caps to the K/Lish 00:12:06 @oeis 14, 18, 23, 28, 33, 42, 51 00:12:12 Sequence not found. 00:12:20 I can get from A to = on this keyboard (to pick two keys which are in the same relative positions on it as they are on normal keyboards) 00:12:24 kmc: what's that one? 00:12:44 @oeis 14, 18, 23, 28, 34 00:12:44 Fiora: yeah what i mean is that it's very small proportionally. 00:12:45 a(n) = solution to the postage stamp problem with 2 denominations and n stam... 00:12:45 I think we've run out of Microsoft products to mock the version numbering of 00:12:53 Bike: makes sense 00:12:57 you have like that mini netbook thing right? 00:12:59 Yeah. 00:13:04 though you also probably have bigger hands <.< 00:13:04 Also that my hands are big, maybe. 00:13:18 these hands were made for graspin' 00:13:27 hee hee my laptop is around two full hand-spans wide 00:13:31 @oeis 14, 18, 23, 28, 34, 42 00:13:32 Local stops on New York City Broadway line (IRT #1) subway.[14,18,23,28,34,4... 00:13:34 there we go 00:13:38 it is a monster 00:13:49 kmc: I was wondering if that's what you were aiming for :) 00:13:58 also I'm amused it's in OEIS 00:14:17 my first attempt was supposed to be the lexington line, which i thought was also in there 00:14:28 the second attempt was correct for the 7th ave line, but ambiguous :/ 00:14:57 @oeis 14, 23, 28, 34, 42, 49, 57 00:14:57 Sequence not found. 00:16:36 @oeis 6,21,107,47176870 00:16:37 Sequence not found. 00:16:39 @oeis 6,21,107 00:16:40 Busy Beaver problem: a(n) = maximal number of steps that an n-state Turing m... 00:16:45 It has it XD 00:17:38 @tell elliott so i found an article explaining The Problem With Procedural Generation: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TynanSylvester/20130602/193462/The_Simulation_Dream.php 00:17:38 Consider it noted. 00:18:19 ooh. 00:18:25 were you talking about that with elliott, or 00:18:52 i mentioned it ages ago, also me and elliott had a bunch of teenage conversations about game design a while ago 00:19:34 like... in that you're teenagers, or 00:19:57 that's a really cool article :o 00:19:59 * Fiora readreadread 00:20:21 @oeis 1,2,3,5,13 00:20:24 Dana Scott's sequence: a(n) = (a(n-2) + a(n-1) * a(n-3)) / a(n-4), a(0) = a(... 00:20:25 itt we are teenagers 00:20:54 The Michotte thing linked is pretty boss. 00:21:19 @oeis 5,13,29,61,125 00:21:19 2^n-3.[2,1,1,5,13,29,61,125,253,509,1021,2045,4093,8189,16381,32765,65533,13... 00:21:21 Michotte thing? 00:21:24 Could do with hiding the text until you reveal it, though. 00:21:25 Bike, no, in the sense that we made all the mistakes that article mentions 00:21:28 http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Discourse/Narrative/michotte-demo.swf 00:21:53 Not sure I'd call that apophenia, exactly... 00:22:14 that makes a lot of sense 00:22:37 Phantom_Hoover: i worry about that stuf sometimes too. i have ideas for games but think about things like "well, realistically not that many people would be dying in a war, let alone at the hands of one (player) character" but of course that's totally irrelevant 00:22:39 @oeis 2,3,5,13,65533 00:22:40 Ackermann's function A(n,0).[1,2,3,5,13,65533] 00:22:43 @oeis 1, 11, 21, 1211 00:22:43 Look and Say sequence: describe the previous term! (method A - initial term ... 00:23:42 I like how you can easily take the message of the article to real life, heh 00:23:54 "people really don't have time to consider the dynamics of even the ten thousand people in their town" 00:24:58 Look and Say is also called many other things, but really it is just runlength encoding 00:25:07 I guess it's like, how the simulation acts vs how it works 00:25:15 that emergent behavior is okay, but it has to match up with expectations of what makes sense 00:25:29 I guess now I'm thinking of simcity traffic... XD 00:26:05 @pl (\x -> [show $ length x, [head x]]) 00:26:08 ap ((:) . (show $) . length) ((: []) . flip ((:) . head) []) 00:26:08 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 00:27:22 Fiora: what i'm getting out of it is kind of that people don't really know or care about it making sense, they want to play a game. 00:27:29 oerjan: have you figured out how to turn it off yet, btw? <-- well the manual listed a couple 00:28:06 Bike: well like, it has to make sense to their mind so they can understand how it works 00:28:09 Bike: It depends what game, isn't it? 00:28:50 like in simcity people are like "wow these sims are incredibly dumb and don't do the sensible thing, so my brain-ideas of road structures don't work, because the simulation doesn't match intuition"? 00:28:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:29:12 and it's not like, specifically how the simulation is implemented, but whether it matches common sense, so it's understandable 00:29:55 at least that's how it feels I don't know 00:30:05 well, yeah, i'm not getting that out of the article though... 00:30:13 also now i'm thinking of the Lem story simcity is based on argh 00:30:40 I guess my interpretation of the article is just that, it doesn't matter how fancy your simulation is, it matters that the product of that simulation makes sense to the players and fits in their mental model of the game? 00:30:45 so that they can play with it and have fun with it 00:30:51 instead of it being some complex, inscrutable monster 00:31:02 yeah 00:31:36 @pl \x -> (show $ length x) ++ [head x] 00:31:38 also oh gosh the worst feeling in a sim game 00:31:40 ap ((++) . id show . length) ((: []) . head) 00:31:40 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 00:31:43 very odd that the result includes 'id show' 00:31:46 is like when you see something going wrong, like a badly optimized trade route or something 00:31:51 and you /can't figure out how to make it better/ 00:31:58 because the simulation is too complicated or weird 00:32:10 so you keep poking at something hoping to twist it into doing what you want 00:32:50 heh, like pathfinding in an RTS 00:32:54 "no you fucking morons turn around" 00:32:59 i guess that's why they added waypoints 00:34:07 > iterate(concatMap(((++).show.length)<*>((:[]).head)).group)"1" 00:34:08 ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... 00:34:56 * Fiora tries to think of something she's played that was really egregious like that 00:35:45 Bike, i think the point of the article was meant to just be that 00:35:51 you could go the other way and make Lemmings :D 00:35:55 ok, that was a mishit of the enter button 00:35:57 oh! Star Drive, that grand strategy master of orion type thing that came out a bit ago. the automated freighter system to move stuff around was really inscrutable and because the movement of freighters took so long it was really hard to get feedback on exactly what was moving where, and I constantly had planets running out of food 00:36:12 at least it was realistic 00:36:16 :P 00:36:24 and you could sort of mitigate it with tons of food storage but 00:36:43 well yes there's something fun about a game where crossing the map with your fleet takes 30 minutes XD 00:36:43 but yeah, your aim is to simulate things that can be easily and intuitively modelled by the player 00:37:35 I kinda feel like it also helps to have windows into the simulation, so it's not opaque 00:37:36 (with the exception of like DF and lemmings where the craziness of the sim is half the fun) 00:37:48 like, so you can see more of the lower-level numbers 00:37:48 i meant lemmings as being simplistic 00:37:58 yeah; but i think that's part of being intuitive? 00:38:02 since they pretty much just go forward and all 00:38:05 well yeah 00:38:13 i just meant it's not very simulatey, intentionally of course 00:38:16 or easy 00:38:20 one of the two! 00:39:05 iterate (rle >=> \(x, y) -> [x, y]) [1] 00:39:12 Fiora: "research ability gained: our engineers have found an exploit in the fabric of reality. you can now watch the processor registers" 00:39:17 XD 00:39:42 that reminds me of one of the mods I loved in civ4, one of the features it added was like lots of little things like that 00:40:00 Bike: It resembles some D&D spell I wrote once called "Break Into Debugger" 00:40:02 so you could see how much effect a new building would have in the tooltip (not just "+10% science" but the actual + based on the current science) 00:40:16 or like, a breakdown of all the odds-multipliers in combat and how they affect things 00:40:24 so everything made so much more instant sense 00:43:43 > iterate((<**>[show.length,take 1]).group)"1" 00:43:44 Couldn't match type `[GHC.Types.Char]' with `GHC.Types.Char' 00:43:44 Expected type... 00:43:46 kmc: You wrote some Haskell program for "look and say", but I like the one I wrote is better, or perhaps like this: lookAndSay = iterate (runLengthEncode >=> tupleToList) [1]; 00:43:52 hmph 00:44:04 :t [show.length,take 1] 00:44:04 [[Char] -> String] 00:44:21 :t (<**>[show.length,take 1]) 00:44:22 [[Char]] -> [String] 00:44:41 oerjan: Do you like my way better, or your way, or the other way? 00:44:47 http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ so this is pretty darkly funny 00:44:59 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 00:46:31 zzo38: unless all the functions you used are in lambdabot's default environment, i don't think yours counts 00:46:54 oerjan: O, OK. 00:47:21 (I also don't know if either function I wrote exists in any package, although I did define them myself.) 00:47:40 > iterate(concat.(<**>[show.length,take 1]).group)"1" 00:47:41 ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... 00:48:22 Or you can use let to define them within your expression, like let { ... } in ... if you prefer that way. 00:48:24 @oeis 341,561,645,115,1387 00:48:25 Sequence not found. 00:48:36 @oeis 561,1105,1729,2465 00:48:37 Carmichael numbers: composite numbers n such that a^(n-1) == 1 (mod n) for e... 00:49:05 There's a book site that gets mentioned here periodically, but I can't remember the name of it. Lots of CS and math books. Any thoughts? 00:50:09 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:50:36 that's pretty vague, man 00:51:02 also all the cool kids just google stuff and pirate it. 00:51:34 I know, there was just a specific one that occasionally gets mentioned. 00:52:14 I mainly like it because of the selection. I don't have any difficulty pirating when necessary, this was just a convenient place 00:52:45 > let { runLengthEncode = map (length &&& head) . group; tupleToList (x, y) = [x, y]; } in iterate (runLengthEncode >=> tupleToList) [1] 00:52:46 [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,1,1,2,2,1],[3,1,2,2,1,1],[1,3,1,1,2,2,2,1],[1... 00:53:12 > let f c d n | n == 0 = z | e == d = f (c+1) d r | otherwise = 100 * f 1 e r + z where z = 10*c + d; (r,e) = n `divMod` 10 in iterate (f 0 1) 1 00:53:13 [1,11,21,1211,111221,312211,13112221,1113213211,31131211131221,132113111231... 00:53:34 > iterate(sequence[show.length,take 1]<= Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `GHC.Base.String' 00:53:35 Expected type:... 00:53:50 * Bike makes gagging gesture 00:54:02 :t sequence[show.length,take 1] 00:54:03 [Char] -> [String] 00:54:12 but i don't think i've seen that anyway NihilistDandy, sorry. closest i can think of is readscheme but i haven't really seen it mentioned here. 00:54:53 I'll have to go digging through the logs. It was either here or #haskell-blah, though I think it was both 00:55:21 > iterate(join.sequence[show.length,take 1]<= ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... 00:55:21 biiike what's polylog(n) 00:56:08 a polynomial in log 00:56:15 ? 00:56:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylogarithmic_function 00:56:21 like, a polynomial of log(n) 00:56:39 so like, log(n)^C ? 00:56:39 Sgeo might be the one who mentioned it to me, now that I think of it. That or elliott. Though, given my memory, it might as well have been byorgey 00:56:46 fiora: log(n) is polylog(n), as is log(n)³ and 3*log(n)⁴ - log(n)² 00:56:55 oerjan: nice 00:57:17 so like, why is 2^(log(n)^c) not polynomial? 00:57:34 uh... because that's not a polynomial? it's exponential in log(n). 00:57:46 but isn't it... not exponential in N? 00:57:50 I guess I'm confused >_< 00:58:18 like it's um... 2^(log(n)) * 2^(log(n)) ... c times 00:58:19 libgen, in case anyone's wondering 00:58:24 so that's... n*n*n*n... c times 00:58:26 so n^c right? 00:58:28 or am I terrible at math 00:58:41 ^ isn't associative 00:58:52 ...? 00:59:03 you changed 2^(log(n)^c) to (2^log(n))^c 00:59:20 but isn't 2^(log(n)^2) equal to 2^(log(n)) * 2^(log(n))? 00:59:26 oh. that's 2^(2log(n)) 00:59:30 oh. 00:59:32 right 00:59:41 * Fiora is bad at math 00:59:46 example: (2^3)^4 = fucking gigantic, 2^(3^4) = 4096 00:59:51 2417851639229258349412352 i guess 00:59:57 wait no 01:00:00 reverse the order there. 01:00:07 gj bike 01:00:32 so 2^(log(n)^c) is equal to n^(what)? *does math 01:01:30 it equals (((2^log(n))^log(n))^log(n))^... 01:01:39 > iterate(shows.length<$>take 1<= Couldn't match type `GHC.Show.ShowS' with `[GHC.Types.Char]' 01:01:40 Expected type... 01:01:47 um, probably. i am also bad at math. 01:01:55 okay I did this 01:02:00 2^(log(n)^c) == n^f(n) 01:02:05 logN(2^(log(n)^c)) = f(n) 01:02:15 (log(n)^c)/log(n) = f(n) 01:02:22 log(n)^(c-1) = f(n) ? 01:02:37 so n^(log(n)^(c-1) == 2^(log(n)^c)? 01:02:48 uh maybe 01:02:54 that's definitely not polynomial in n though 01:02:57 that makes sense 01:03:07 I guess I see where quasi-polynomial comes from then 01:03:15 it's like, it's not polynomial but it's not /that much bigger/ 01:03:24 :t shows.length<$>take 1 01:03:24 [a] -> ShowS 01:03:26 it's subexponential definitely 01:03:39 "In mathematics, a quasi-polynomial (pseudo-polynomial) is a generalization of polynomials. While the coefficients of a polynomial come from a ring, the coefficients of quasi-polynomials are instead periodic functions with integral period." oh christ fiora 01:03:46 :t shows.length<$>take 1<= Couldn't match type `ShowS' with `[c0]' 01:03:47 Expected type: [a0] -> [c0] 01:03:47 Actual type: [a0] -> ShowS 01:03:53 I meant the complexity class >_< 01:04:02 :t (shows.length<$>take 1)<= Couldn't match type `ShowS' with `[c0]' 01:04:03 Expected type: [a0] -> [c0] 01:04:03 Actual type: [a0] -> ShowS 01:04:07 yeah i know :P 01:04:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-polynomial_time#Quasi-polynomial_time 01:04:12 hmph 01:04:20 "Quasi-polynomial time algorithms are algorithms which run slower than polynomial time, yet not so slow as to be exponential time" yeah i'd rather say subexponential honestly 01:04:44 so like... the expression they have there 01:04:52 that can describe *all* running times that are neither exponential nor polynomial? 01:05:05 um, between them, probably? 01:05:05 erm, I mean, that are in between 01:05:13 so like, there's nothing bigger than QP but smaller than EXP? 01:05:28 hm 01:05:31 is QP 'quite polynomial' 01:05:34 quasi 01:05:39 maybe like 2^(iterated log of n) is smaller 01:05:48 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:05:58 there are probably any number of weird functions you could put in there, they just don't come up in practice? 01:06:10 :t shows.length 01:06:10 [a] -> ShowS 01:06:27 I guess... it just feels like "subexponential" is a bigger thing than just that? 01:06:36 oerjan: Are you trying to make a golf or something? 01:06:38 oh here's an example 01:06:40 "Another example is the best-known algorithm for the graph isomorphism problem, which runs in time 2O(√(n log n))." 01:06:47 er, that's 2^O. 01:07:02 :t take 1 01:07:03 [a] -> [a] 01:07:13 Is there a logic that can have not only the "material implication" but also the "tristate implication" (if the left side is false, the result is high-impedance)? 01:07:14 :t shows.length<$>take 1 01:07:15 [a] -> ShowS 01:07:18 ugh my head. 01:07:27 how does that make sense... 01:09:18 :t (shows.length<$>take 1)"11" 01:09:19 ShowS 01:09:51 I wonder if anyone is making a esolang "BelalCode" 01:09:54 > (shows.length<$>take 1)"11" "" 01:09:54 "1" 01:10:32 ...duh! 01:11:04 > iterate((shows.length<*>take 1)<= ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... 01:11:09 ooh 01:11:30 > iterate(shows.length<*>take 1<= ["1","11","21","1211","111221","312211","13112221","1113213211","3113121113... 01:11:48 oerjan: Are you trying to make a golf? 01:11:58 sort of 01:12:21 OK 01:12:45 * kmc golf clap 01:16:50 yay 01:17:38 "'Tweety can fly' is a logical consequence of {Birds can typically fly, Tweety is a bird} but not of {Birds can typically fly, Tweety is a bird, Tweety is a penguin 01:18:05 "'Tweety can fly' is a logical consequence of {Birds can typically fly, Tweety is a bird} but not of {Birds can typically fly, Tweety is a bird, Tweety is a penguin}." This seems to me something related to a pull-up resistor??? 01:18:45 classical logic hasn't got a "typically"... 01:19:08 I know; it isn't classical logic. 01:20:21 i mean, what logical consequence are you talking about 01:20:59 I don't know. 01:21:34 because i wouldn't call that a logical consequence and it seems plenty unintuitive besides 01:22:17 I agree it isn't really a logical consequence, but maybe in some logic it can be. 01:22:52 It seems related to a pull-up resistor somehow 01:22:55 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:23:14 wbchaf 01:23:26 i don't think i want a logic where you can conclude a definite from a 'typically'... 01:23:54 thiuaf 01:24:34 Or to Inform 7, if you write something like "A bird can typically fly. A penguin is a bird. A penguin cannot fly. Tweety is a bird. Tweety is a penguin." (I don't know if this is actually a valid Inform 7 code, though) 01:25:49 As they say: All penguins are mortal. Tweety is mortal. Tweety is a penguin. 01:26:10 Indeed 01:26:57 (I meant "A penguin is a kind of bird." but still maybe it is wrong) 01:27:11 http://www.futek.com/images/pages/aboutus/Element_X.jpg it's good to know other industries have hiring practices as bizarre as IT 01:27:29 (In fact it probably is wrong; I don't know how to program in Inform 7, nor do I know how to program in Inform 6, actually) 01:28:12 Most philosophers are jerks. Socrates was a philosopher. Socrates was a jerk. 01:28:25 "as they say" 01:30:06 I agree that the conclusion is no good; I am just saying that maybe there can be some kind of logic that can have such things. 01:30:30 Who said the conclusion is no good? 01:30:38 He really was a jerk. 01:30:38 i did 01:30:48 not wrt socrates. fuck that guy. 01:31:19 shachaf: Maybe it is, but that doesn't make the conclusion good, any more than "If 2+2=4 therefore the sun is yellow" is good. 01:31:21 Is Inform proprietary? 01:31:49 ==Bike 01:31:58 Sgeo: I think it was once, but now it isn't, as far as I know. 01:32:40 kmc: I replaced my IRC window with a counter to see how many times I switched to it. 01:32:46 I got up to 55 this time. 01:32:55 heh. 01:33:36 haha 01:34:08 (But I think the "home position" for my fingers has one finger on the 8 key now...) 01:34:23 how 01:34:35 o.O 01:34:36 "Art Evolution: Surprisingly averted, whether intentionally or what. Rather sadly, there has been very little change in Illiad's art style from his very beginning strips to his most current - in almost 13 years his artistic style has remained very ... rough. 01:34:37 " 01:34:42 (about User Friendly) 01:35:00 has it changed in any other way 01:35:35 It stopped producing new strips back in 2009... 01:35:38 That's a change 01:35:45 is it sgeo? is it? 01:35:50 did user friendly ever exist outside of your mind 01:36:30 Also, the introduction of new characters totally counts as a change. The book I bought as a kid started with the introduction of Dust Puppy) 01:39:20 http://vigor.sourceforge.net/ 01:40:09 you bought a book of this shit? 01:40:28 i read a lot of Dilbert as a small child 01:41:37 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:42:12 Bike, that's how I found out about it 01:43:31 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:44:48 Bike_: How does one posse a panache? 01:45:56 kmc, same 01:46:08 I still read Dilbert every day >.> 01:46:32 but it's bad 01:46:32 Used to save a copy of every strip onto my computer when I was younger. Glad I don't need to do that anymore 01:47:56 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:49:57 -!- Bike has joined. 01:54:03 gah i tried using the formatted logs but the text is huge and zooming in IE 10 breaks the formatting... 01:59:56 Sgeo: I used to have all the `olist comics on my server! 02:00:03 In a few minutes I will again. 02:00:17 Does giantitp.com throttle or something? 02:00:33 By throttle I don't mean throttle. 02:00:39 I mean do they get upset if you download a lot. 02:01:49 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 02:01:59 do they 'throttle' you 02:02:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:04:15 I have a robots.txt that has a command to slow down when making automated mirrors like this, although wget doesn't understand that command, so you have to use its own command. 02:04:48 Does gopher support it, though? 02:05:02 Or is gopher auto-throttled by the number of gopher users in the world? 02:05:22 Well, actually I made up a format for gopher to support it, although I don't know if it is used. 02:05:54 How do I use it? 02:06:02 Access the selector named ".robot" (without quotes) in my computer, it does includes the command to slow down. 02:06:25 gopher://zzo38computer.org/0.robot 02:06:34 What does 0 mean? 02:06:57 The 0 means the type code, it is a plain text file. 02:07:39 There are other type codes such as 1 for a menu, 7 if the user can enter the query text and then it is a menu, and 9 for downloading binary files. 02:08:09 What if I just use a space? 02:08:47 It depends on the client whether or not it will work. 02:09:18 The type code isn't send to the server so the server won't care if the client supports it or not. 02:09:24 Oh. 02:09:29 Did you write your own gopher server? 02:09:50 Yes, but even if I didn't write my own gopher server, the same thing is true. 02:10:01 I thought you did. 02:10:11 Is that why it doesn't work with most gopher clients I've tried? 02:11:14 No. It is that your gopher clients may be broken by using a slash as the selector string even when it is blank; someone (maybe it was you?) test it and said it did that. But there is a work around: Use "root" as the selector string. 02:11:24 -!- maria has joined. 02:13:51 -!- maria has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:02 I still haven't found any usable Gopher clients on OS X. Any recommendations? 02:18:26 Then again, I think zzo38 is the only reason I've ever had cause to use gopher, so maybe I don't need it :D 02:18:48 NihilistDandy: I don't know. I wrote one in shell scripts (although it was written in MinGW and probably needs to be modified), so maybe that one works. 02:18:55 HTTP proxies for Gopher acceptable? 02:19:13 Sgeo_: That would be a good workaround 02:19:19 Sgeo_: For my server no; the router blocks it. 02:19:25 Oh, yeesh 02:19:29 zzo38, o.O why? 02:19:52 Sgeo_: Because the proxies won't make it so that Google won't index those proxies. 02:20:46 If you have a Windows emulator or some way to compile VB6 programs for non-Windows computers, you can also try Visgopher. 02:21:52 I guess I can use Overbite with FF 02:22:03 I haven't tried it, but it looks workable 02:22:23 Yes, you can use that. 02:24:30 In languages with first-class continuations can you get the behavior of arbitrary monads to seem first-class? 02:24:33 E.g. parsers. 02:25:50 zzo38 has Gopher, and I have Active Worlds 02:26:01 Except AW is proprietary I guess 02:26:18 shachaf, yes I think 02:26:52 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:28:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:25 Dammit what's that library I fell in love with when I last looked at Scala 02:28:29 That's what I want to link shachaf to 02:28:46 What are the benefits to gopher, anyway? 02:28:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:28:59 it has the zzo38 nature 02:29:47 NihilistDandy: Simplicity is one. 02:29:54 shachaf, https://github.com/urso/embeddedmonads 02:29:58 Sgeo_: Link him to pipes. 02:30:19 is there gopher over ssl 02:30:30 Also, the screen does not have to render HTML/CSS/etc which aren't suitable for it. 02:30:38 Or at least a gopher equivalent to SSL 02:30:45 kmc: Probably you can do it if you want to; I don't know if any existing servers do. 02:31:10 But it's useless to have a server that does it if no clients do it 02:31:17 wouldn't the gopher equivalent of SSL be SSL? 02:31:23 Unless it encourages clients to adapt it 02:31:26 it's application protocol agnostic 02:32:04 which is occasionally annoying, e.g. the duplication of HTTP Host: header and SSL's SNI 02:32:13 kmc: Yes, that is why it doesn't matter, if it uses it, if the client supports it, etc, just use something that allow you to make SSL connection with normal connections, and then clearly it will work. 02:32:19 Hmm, drracket is kind of nice as a lightweight experimenting with code thing. 02:32:30 it's ok 02:32:55 i think it's annoying to use Racket as a Scheme implementation 02:33:02 if you do #lang r5rs then you lose out on libraries or something 02:33:37 Libraries that R5RS has no standard way to access anyway? 02:33:55 Maybe it could be a pseudo-TLD so that if you connect to "example.org.ssl" then the DNS client will interfere with it and make it a SSL connection locally in the network driver. 02:34:10 zzo38: that is a strange idea, one that I kind of like 02:34:35 oh well one problem is that #lang r5rs prints cons cells in a weird way 02:34:52 Racket distinguishes mutable and immutable cons cells, and the former are written like {2 . 3} rather than (2 . 3) 02:35:01 and r5rs cons creates a mutable cell, naturally 02:35:46 hm but it's different if you select "R5RS" from the menu, it seems 02:35:54 shachaf: I agree about drracket 02:36:20 shachaf: http://docs.racket-lang.org/plot/ looks neat 02:36:51 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:40:47 I ... don't think I like how read console:// works in Rebol 02:40:59 If stdin is the console, it will only read one line 02:41:06 good scheme 02:41:16 So can't really do cat with it... I think 02:42:26 I/O is very schemey in Rebol. Including Tcp 02:42:31 There's a tcp:// and a udp:// 02:43:02 That logic about birds that can typically fly seems to me like pull-up resistors and pull-down resistors, kind of. Isn't it? 02:46:37 Here are the schemes available on my copy of Rebol3 02:46:48 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:47:31 system:// console:// callback:// file:// dir:// event:// dns:// tcp:// clipboard:// http:// 02:52:27 help how do delimited continuations work 02:52:50 pray to oleg and ye shall receive 02:53:26 shachaf, when you shift, what you're shifting takes full control 02:53:38 But it's given an argument representing what would have been the rest of the computation 02:53:57 If it wants, it can feed that "rest of the computation" a value as many or as few times as it wants, and use those results as it pleases 02:54:04 And whatever it returns is the final result 02:55:01 It's much like >>=... >>= gets as an argument a function, which it can use as many or as few times as it wants to determine its final result 02:56:36 do { a <- ma; b <- mb }... the first >>= that that translates into gets to choose whether the rest of do block gets run at all, or how many times, and what happens to those... exactly like the expression given to shift gets to choose what happens to the rest of the computation, whether to use it and how many times in calculating its final result 03:00:09 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:13:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:14:36 help 03:15:00 trying to write continuationy code in scheme and missing the feeling of fighting the type checker 03:15:23 Delimited continuations seem like the sort of thing that might have an equivalent in category theory. 03:16:16 -!- tswett has set topic: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | SEUTA KEULAEPEUTEU. 03:17:05 shachaf: Implement overly strict and completely nonsensical typechecker in scheme, hth 03:17:41 error compiling (+ 4 5): type mismatch: Even, Odd 03:18:04 thanks Bike 03:18:06 Don't be ridiculous. + isn't a valid operation on Odd. 03:18:08 np 03:18:14 feels like home 03:18:28 Medical foods are foods that are specially formulated and intended for the dietary management of a disease that has distinctive nutritional needs that cannot be met by normal diet alone. 03:18:31 tswett: That's why you get an error! 03:18:42 I think you should implement a typechecker based on PID controllers and neural nets. 03:18:51 ooh, that sounds exciting. 03:20:27 Instead of declaring the entire program to be either correct or incorrect, it simply assigns an error value to every little piece of the program. 03:21:49 Your program will still run no matter what, but it will attempt to spend more time running code with a lower error value. 03:22:00 If all of the code has a high error value, the program will just run really slowly. 03:22:01 Then deletes the line, like fuckitjs or certain versions of GHC 03:40:05 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:41:13 ** Script error: cannot use write on port! value 03:41:18 ARGUMENTS: 03:41:19 destination (port! file! url! block!) 03:41:22 * Sgeo_ wats 03:41:28 deep 03:43:29 I can't even manage to write a cat program in Rebol 03:43:30 I suck 03:46:02 Sgeo_: What are these advanced semantics in Rebol? 03:46:42 @tell phantom_hoover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2RzY2Mzr94 game 03:46:42 Consider it noted. 03:47:11 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:00:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:11:05 Did whoever added 'hazanavicius coraile oussama bin vodid muhammad jihad pirlgrimage "hello world" von dreyfus said' intend to make the BelalCode article? Well, it can be put back on in case it is actually made and that such a thing is working. 04:12:19 @tell Phantom_Hoover I'm going to design a Brainfuck-equivalent language. 04:12:19 Consider it noted. 04:13:12 (Not actually BF equiv. It won't be able to represent +- or >< or ]..[ or other such atrocities that I can think of. 04:13:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:13:46 Actually I am one thought of things like that too, a kind of compression that cannot represent such things. 04:15:01 ion: kmc can confirm that anything + acid is a nice combination 04:15:26 So, my ideas: In some circumstances, some characters are impossible. With only 7 commands taken, there's room for one pseudocommand. Let that command expand into two commands on decompression. I _think_ that would work on random data 04:15:27 * pikhq snickers a bit at the PS4 press con at E3. 04:15:42 * pikhq shall sum it up for you: "Playstation: It's Not Xbox." 04:16:25 pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA 04:16:28 But let's try this: It expands into the previous character twice. And, if the previous was a pseudocharacter, then that pseudocharacter's character to expand into 4 times 04:16:28 etc 04:17:01 Bike: Yup. 04:17:04 Don't know if RLE might be a better idea 04:17:09 But this is certainly interesting 04:17:22 Are there circumstances that would give room for two pseudocharacters? 04:17:51 erm, pseudocommands 04:18:57 Also, are there better ways to do fewer than 3 bits per command? Since each command after 1 is restricted doesn't need 3 bits, what ways besides a pseudocharacter that expands into two could take advantage of that? 04:21:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:23:59 Use some dynamic Huffman, maybe, with the checking of what is redundancy, possibly in more ways that your specification. 04:25:26 Someone wrote comment about Malbolge, on the "99 bottles of beer" program, the comment: HOW can human (without drinking 99 bottles of bear) write in this language??? 04:25:37 Sgeo_: Arithmetic encoding? 04:25:43 Can you write in this language if you drink 99 bottles of beer (or of bear)? 04:26:05 One can get fractional bits that way. 04:26:42 pikhq, hmm 04:27:38 I need 3 bits/command most of the time, it's only on occasion that I can get away with a little less 04:28:04 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:32:50 shachaf: disconfirm 04:39:39 oh well 04:40:29 http://ericlippert.com/2013/06/10/construction-destruction/ was pretty confusing when I thought it was talking about C++. 04:41:03 ah it's C# 04:41:28 there are small syntactic clues but i definitely can imagine skimming it and thinking it's C++ 04:41:54 Yep. 04:42:01 ....system/ports/output isn't completely implemented yet 04:43:45 what was the context of your acid claim anywaychaf 04:44:01 21:14 Btw, tables + acid-state is a nice combination. 04:44:05 heh 04:44:19 i wish there were some state of the US particularly known for its acid 04:44:20 Of course Rebol 2 is more stable. It's also proprietary. 04:44:23 in the past kmc has compared """acid-state""" to haskell 04:44:30 rolleyes 04:44:31 I don't think anyone wants a deadfish impl. in a proprietary language 04:44:36 EVERYONE WANTS IT 04:44:39 ? 04:44:39 DEADFISH IN MIRANDA NOWWW 04:44:53 (acid-state is a drugz euphemizm btw) 04:45:02 we're on the same page shacha 04:45:04 f 04:45:07 (page of blotter acid that is) 04:45:14 Sgeo_: Well, I don't, but you can do it if you want it, I suppose. 04:45:33 zzo38, I want Rebol 3 to be in a half decent state 04:46:12 So I can do this: 04:46:17 https://www.google.com/search?q=blotter+paper+lsd&tbm=isch 04:46:29 read-char: does [to string! read/part console:// 1] 04:46:33 plz uze encrypted.google.com thx hth 04:47:19 I don't remember what it oes better but it does something better. 04:47:21 Maybe referers? 04:47:25 (does is just a convenient way to make an anonymous func that doesn't take arguments) 04:48:24 "According to Google, the difference is with handling referrer information when clicking on an ad." 04:48:31 http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/32367/what-is-the-difference-between-https-google-com-and-https-encrypted-google-c 04:48:59 kmc: btw once i consumed a whole bunch of acid and it messed with my tongue for days 04:49:14 (i'm referring to citric acid * malic acid of course) 04:49:21 naturally 04:49:26 As if there's another way to take that 04:50:36 Should I get in the habit of using * instead of +? 04:50:47 When you have both of two things, instead of either of two things. 04:51:04 heh 04:51:31 E.g. tables * acid-state is a nice combination. 04:51:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:51:45 · 04:51:48 × 04:52:03 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:52:07 ∩ 04:52:23 ∇×v 04:52:23 ǔ 04:52:33 whoa dude it's like a u with another u above it 04:52:39 ŭ = w 04:52:39 DUDE 04:52:42 a u with another u's hat on 04:53:14 o̊ 04:53:40 m̼ 04:54:37 x̽ 04:56:04 U+2F31D COMBINING BRITISH ACCENT 04:57:32 itym ACCENT INDICATOR + COMBINING ACCENT COUNTRY CODE U + COMBINING ACCENT COUNTRY CODE K 05:01:22 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:01:49 what does "seuta keulaepeuteu" mean 05:01:58 -!- sprocklem has joined. 05:02:16 -!- Bike has joined. 05:03:23 oh it's a romanization of the korean name for StarCraft? 05:03:42 yes 05:03:47 it means "bug in google translate" 05:03:55 -_- 05:04:00 -!- sprockle_ has joined. 05:04:29 google doesn't do phonetic latin typing for korean 05:04:34 -!- sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:05:49 korean: secretly related to finnish? 05:07:44 i'm sure some linguist has proposed that 05:07:51 finnish isn't IE either!! 05:08:04 right 05:08:26 http://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-the-Finnish-and-Korean-languages-may-share-a-common-root i fucking love quora 05:11:06 ?share=1 05:11:07 Unknown command, try @list 05:12:03 wow why does that work 05:12:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural%E2%80%93Altaic_languages oh fuck me it really is a theory. 05:18:02 kmc: I've been rather miffed about the lack of phonetic typing for Korean in Google Translate, recently 05:18:10 ah really 05:18:20 how is korean typed? 05:18:20 I'm trying to learn Korean 05:18:34 Bike: With a keyboard 05:18:38 one jamo at a time 05:18:43 don't be a smartass please 05:18:58 i was reading about burmese input yesterday and am now reasonably sure typing is impossible 05:19:15 It's actually not bad once you understand hangul, a bit 05:19:21 is that the dual of rean (categoriez joke) 05:19:30 I use the 2-set layout on my machine 05:19:32 maybe that's why they don't have internet in burma 05:20:14 I haven't started learning hanja, yet, though 05:20:26 why do you need those 05:20:59 names, maybe? 05:21:09 reading the packaging of Shin Ramyun 05:21:49 "Today, a good working knowledge of Chinese characters is still important for anyone who wishes to study older texts (up to about the 1990s), or anyone who wishes to read scholarly texts in the humanities." 05:21:58 hm. (though i think that's a typo for "1890s") 05:22:01 lool 05:22:10 Well, why did I learn Latin? To see connections between all the Romance languages. Learn hanja for the same reason one learns hanzi or kanji, I guess 05:22:32 does that really work, i mean, korean and chinese aren't related like romance languages are 05:22:56 The choice of symbols are, though 05:23:18 is the choice of symbols based on pronunciation or meaning or a terrible mix of both? 05:23:40 Learn Latin because it is a dead language so existing words and grammar and so on no longer changes/evolves (although new words are occasionally made up, still) 05:23:42 More that latter 05:24:10 kmc: iirc kanji have never been pronounced very much like chinese? 05:24:11 not sure 05:24:17 what is latin for Bike 05:24:32 «One way of adapting hanja to write Korean in such systems (such as Gugyeol) was to represent native Korean grammatical particles and other words solely according to their pronunciation. For example, Gugyeol uses the characters 爲尼 to transcribe the Korean word "hăni", in modern Korean, that means "does, and so". However, in Chinese, the same characters are read as the expression "wéi ní," meaning "becoming a nun."» 05:24:47 Bike: Kind of, especially in compound words, but still it is an approximation. 05:25:01 shachaf: bikepodes 05:25:43 I don't know much Chinese, but apparently in Mandarin the sound of a character is derived from the main radical and then that is effected by another radical (usually to indicate the consonant sound) 05:26:02 NihilistDandy: I think I read about that, too 05:26:07 i was reading a korean comic and a high school student insulted another student's mislinguistics by saying King Sejong would be rolling in his grave 05:26:10 so that was weird 05:26:30 Japanese pronunciation of kanji is similar to the Mandarin, but the "Japaneseness" is still quite evident 05:26:43 Once you'ev seen a lot of the words next to each other, the patterns are easier to spot 05:26:57 I don't know enough Korean, yet, to say anything similar 05:27:01 *you've 05:27:17 Bike: That's pretty funny about Sejong :D 05:27:32 speaking of korean comics did you see that terrible korean comic 05:27:47 um, i've read a lot of terrible comics from various places 05:27:55 maybe i read whatever you're referring to? it's possible! 05:28:01 @google that terrible korean comic 05:28:02 http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=20&weekday=tue 05:28:03 Title: 2011 미스테리 단편 :: 네이버 만화 05:28:03 -!- hogeyui____ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:28:06 terrible in the sense of unpleasant 05:28:09 i don't recommend it 05:28:10 i'm impressed 05:28:21 Japanese kanji has different reading, kun-yomi, on-yomi, and in one page of the Akagi manga I have even seen a kanji that is using the English reading! 05:28:25 oh is it the horror story one 05:28:33 yes 05:28:52 Ick, that's unpleasant 05:29:24 I didn't know they used the English reading of kanji, ever, but they did just once in Akagi. 05:31:00 it's weird how like every korean webcomic is on naver. whoever runs that's got a pretty good monopoly 05:31:24 Too many pop-scares in that comic 05:32:26 yeah it's pretty mediocre but that's horror for you. 05:34:02 wait the version i saw was in english 05:34:06 is this even the same comic 05:34:11 anyway not reading hth 05:34:16 got it 05:34:27 i;m so fucking helped right now 05:36:06 i don't understand why programmers get paid so much money 05:36:27 Skilled labor? Why do plumbers get paid so much? 05:36:38 because they're covered in shit 05:36:40 how much do plumbers get paid 05:36:56 it's true that most programming is plumbing 05:36:59 kmc: $35-75 05:37:05 per hour 05:37:19 Licensing gets you about double that 05:37:34 what distinguishes the $35/hr plumbers from the $75/hr plumbers 05:37:43 also how easy/hard is it to get 40hrs of work per week 05:37:46 minimalism and craftsmanship 05:38:01 Experience, I guess. I think it's largely an apprenticeship sort of trade 05:38:05 *nod* 05:38:40 i think there have been various proposals to reorganize programming as an apprenticeship sort of trade 05:38:45 i don't know if it's a good idea or not 05:39:08 i do feel like most of the practical stuff I know I've learned on the job rather than in school 05:39:22 but the stuff I learned in school has enriched my life and indirectly makes me better at practical stuff too 05:39:44 i wonder how many people are even qualified to compare and contrast training/certification models 05:39:56 haha 05:40:30 we should find a plumber who dabbles in database programming 05:40:52 probably relatively few 05:40:56 The problem with apprenticeship-style jobs of all sorts is that it's hard to get into. 05:41:02 i guess academia is... sort of apprenticey... 05:41:03 probably almost no intersection with the people who write blog posts about how programmers should be taught / managed / hired 05:41:04 Plumbers usually have plumbers in the family. 05:41:20 -!- hogeyui____ has joined. 05:41:34 Bike: well once you're a tenured professor you aren't getting your hands dirty so much anymore 05:41:36 @google plumbing blog 05:41:39 http://blog.allareaplumbing.net/ 05:41:39 Title: All Area Plumbing Blog - Ask The Plumber Blog | Plumbing Advice | Affordable ... 05:41:42 much of the work is done by the apprentices 05:41:52 kmc: tht's it. we need professors to take up plumbing 05:42:06 i was reflecting earlier on the fact that I don't know a single person who dropped out of grad school and regrets the decision 05:42:20 yeah :/ 05:42:32 which is not to say nobody should do grad school, but if you're on the fence about it then maybe it's not for you 05:42:32 Unless your goal is to be a professor, grad school in CS is almost totally pointless. 05:42:35 like startups! 05:42:38 as someone who's intending to go to grad school it's uh, there's a lot of reasons not to be encouraged 05:42:44 (not that it's in CS) 05:42:45 Gregor: yes, in fact you can do much better research in industry, in many cases 05:42:48 Bike: bio? 05:42:56 weird neurocrap, hopefully 05:43:00 cool 05:43:05 i know someone doing neurocrap at Brown 05:43:15 Math grad school 4 lyfe 05:43:19 ^ 05:43:29 But if you're in math, you can't make anything of your degree at any level. 05:43:31 So why not. 05:43:33 math grad students seem abnormally happy compared to CS or experimental science ones 05:43:37 related: did you know there are articles like "An implantable wireless neural interface for recording cortical circuit dynamics in moving primates" in real journals that you can really read 05:43:42 kmc: it's all the amphetamines 05:43:43 Gregor: are the days of hiring maths students in finance over? 05:43:49 kmc: I am the happiest human being alive. 05:43:50 Bike: fun 05:43:58 http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/10/2/026010 05:44:32 i've heard math grads are different from other grads though 05:44:38 like you don't know what you're going to study, going in 05:44:56 yeah, I'm told that you spend your first few years reading a few of those yellow death books and working all the problems 05:45:17 yellow death? 05:45:18 at which point you know which sub-sub-sub-field of math you want to study, and you find the six people in the world who do the same 05:45:20 Bike: Springers 05:45:28 Springer Verlag Graduate Texts in Mathematics 05:45:36 http://math.arizona.edu/~savitt/GTM.html 05:45:37 oh god, the horror 05:45:37 Bike: That's pretty true. I think I'm going to focus on algebra, but that's pretty vague 05:45:47 and then you just like chill with those six people 05:45:53 I kinda like the GTMs 05:46:00 maybe math should like be split up 05:46:05 it sure seems like there's a lot of it! 05:46:22 and more as quickly as people can think it up 05:46:30 like wtf does an algebraist have to talk about with a dynamicist most of the time 05:46:40 it's like if you grouped ethologists and immunologists together 05:46:40 So much. Calculus taught me that continuous math is weird and unpleasant to me, so everything I like to do now is discrete and perfect and beautiful :D 05:46:50 tsk. continuity 4 lyfe. 05:46:51 Bike: hell, most schools have only a small department of math 05:46:53 Oh by the way guys the Apple keynote at WWDC mentioned some of my stuffs. 05:46:54 So, y'know. 05:46:55 I'm famous. 05:46:57 Just FYI. 05:46:59 our school does it right 05:47:04 Gregor: can i have your autograph 05:47:13 Gregor: the CBC put my name in an article, therefore I'm famous 05:47:13 Bike: $300 05:47:16 in fact, they quoted me 05:47:21 wow, you really are a grad student 05:47:22 I had Dummit for Algebra, so I feel pretty awesome :D 05:47:27 Bike: lol X-D 05:48:16 another real neuroshit paper that's sci-fi as fuck is "Improving brain-machine interface performance by decoding intended future movements" but alas i lack pubmed access 05:48:43 Bike: I think I might have pubmed access 05:48:47 I can check, if you like 05:49:05 or well i guess it's JNE again hm 05:49:17 http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/10/2/026011/ 05:49:30 i wonder how the cyborg monkeys feel about all this 05:57:19 -!- Bamba705 has joined. 05:57:19 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 05:57:20 -!- Bamba705 has left. 05:58:21 ya got iBooted 05:58:42 Bike: Sadly, my university's PubMed shit seems to have disappeared :( 05:58:47 o well 05:59:10 thanks anyway, i'll just have to content myself with CPG legs 06:06:42 What on earth is iBooter? 06:08:23 "iBooTer is the one of the best Booters on the internet. Cheap & Great attack strength with 24/7 Support!! So come join the Family" i'm excited 06:08:31 Nevermind, Had to go to their terms of service to figure out what the hell service they offer. 06:09:16 Also, for those prices I hope they actually deliver 06:13:58 -!- sprockle_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:17:42 kmc: itym chiiiiiiiiip hth 06:17:52 ;_; 06:21:57 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:55:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 07:23:05 -!- kmc has set topic: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | SEUTA KEULAEPEUTEU. 07:23:20 -!- kmc has set topic: опасное безумие | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | SEUTA KEULAEPEUTEU | nid wyf yn y swyddfa. 07:33:56 -!- augur has joined. 07:45:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:57:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:08:14 -!- nooga has joined. 08:12:41 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:12:57 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Buhnana). 08:34:27 -!- `0x00 has joined. 08:36:50 Oh by the way guys the Apple keynote at WWDC mentioned some of my stuffs. <-- what kind of stuffs? 08:52:46 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:14:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:40:18 -!- VGFAA778 has joined. 09:40:18 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 09:40:18 -!- VGFAA778 has left. 09:41:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:44:59 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:45:23 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 09:47:14 Want to take someone's offline friends? Just murder them and their friends will be all yours: that's how it works. 09:47:15 fungot: Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? 09:47:15 olsner: but, it's this crazy/ wacky issue settled first, but it's a more familiar feeling, but never one to believe in love at all? is that the story? 09:49:18 -!- VGFAA666 has joined. 09:49:18 -!- VGFAA666 has left. 09:50:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:50:58 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 10:17:39 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:18:48 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:43:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:59:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:03:05 so does anyone know the limit of (1/e)x^e as e -> 0 for positive x? i'm thinking it's ln x but i'm not sure 11:03:44 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:05:34 wolfram alpha says it's infinity from positive direction, -inf from negative? 11:05:54 and the series expansion is 1/c + log(x) + c/2 * log(x)^2 + O(c^2) 11:05:59 so I guess that basically reduces to 1/c 11:08:10 what's 11:08:10 c 11:08:15 oh, right 11:08:16 wait 11:08:19 what is c 11:08:56 oh oops 11:08:57 I replaced e with 11:08:59 *e with c 11:09:04 because it thought e was the constant -_- 11:09:05 (i got that expression by integrating x^(e-1) on the assumption that integration was continuous fwiw) 11:10:03 so I did um... 1/c * x^c as c->0 11:10:43 that log x term in the series expansion looks tantalising though 11:25:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:26:22 -!- itsy has joined. 11:47:03 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:05:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:06:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:06:53 oh, wait 12:07:20 when x=e (the actual constant, that is) the limit isn't well-defined 12:07:31 so clearly it's not log e 12:08:23 it's 1/e + log(x) so it's not well defined to begin with is it? 12:08:28 since 1/0 is well yeah 12:08:51 yes 12:09:43 the log(x) would be swamped, I'd think 12:10:46 Should I buy Scrolls? 12:12:22 As in the game 12:12:31 Not as in bits of paper 12:12:56 "We do not want to be the first software in history to be delayed due to a dwindling supply of cats" -- apple at wwdc 12:13:07 finally apple tackles the real issues 12:15:15 That seems to be exactly the opposite problem Bay 12 games is facing 12:19:35 Taneb, imo no 12:19:49 have i not impressed the awfulness of mojang upon you 12:22:32 Phantom_Hoover, you've impressed the awfulness of their coding style upon be sufficiently to deter me from applying to work for Mojang as a programmer 12:22:39 ^style ct 12:22:39 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 12:22:41 fungot: Will you, yourself, bring an end to all of this? 12:22:41 fizzie: the king awaits. you saved our queen? you see, the mammon machine! 12:22:43 And the quality of planning of Notch 12:22:53 Oh, I forgot to tell the bestest thing! 12:23:01 But seeing as Notch had little contribution to Scrolls... 12:23:43 Yesterday, in Lugano, when we went to the hotel to pick up our luggage, an Indian-looking woman came to me and asked if I was "the creator of Minecraft"; apparently her son was completely convinced I was. 12:23:59 Though I don't look at all like Notch, except for having a similar hat. 12:24:17 I do (allegedly, anyway) resemble Jeb a bit, though, so maybe it was just a communications problem. 12:24:23 (Not that I'm either of them.) 12:24:46 Perhaps all Scandinavians look alike to "them". 12:25:15 Oh, it was the day before yesterday. Anyway. 12:29:18 doesn't notch wear a fedora 12:32:07 `learn fizzie is the creator of Minecraft. 12:32:15 I knew that. 12:32:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:36:58 I don't really know about hats, but I have this thing that's a bit like one, I guess. 13:04:24 -!- nooga has joined. 13:04:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:08:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:12:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 13:15:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:19:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:41:25 -!- k0herence has joined. 13:41:49 -!- k0herence has left. 13:59:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:59:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:16:44 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:18:44 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:27:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:37:49 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:57:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:02:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:03:28 -!- Bike has joined. 15:05:49 Today I made a little emacs cheet sheet 15:07:08 Maybe too little 15:07:13 I can barely read it 15:09:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 15:16:30 you should write it in a text file 15:16:31 with emacs 15:41:32 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:47:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:48:53 You should configure a key combination in your Emacs to access it. 15:49:10 The key combination should be prominently listed on top of the cheat sheet, since you'll be needing it often. 16:00:27 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:01:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:04:29 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 16:08:55 -!- lambdabot has joined. 16:10:37 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:11:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:11:19 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:12:04 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:12:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:19:41 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 16:20:06 -!- Pb has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:21:27 Phantom_Hoover, btw, thanks for your anthracite mod 16:21:43 `thanks anthracite 16:21:45 Thanks, anthracite. Thanthracite. 16:26:11 maybe one day i should flesh that out and balance it (ahahaha) 16:27:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:28:05 did i give you the components that adjusted iron ore distribution, i don't remember 16:35:24 Phantom_Hoover, maybe, I've got loads of iron ore 16:35:36 In fact yes 16:35:49 that really needs rebalancing 16:36:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:36:11 I've made a fortress that's 4 years old without trade 16:36:25 especially the magnetite deposits, those things are way too big to be in every other layer 16:38:29 > 2^28 `mod` 29 16:38:31 1 16:38:38 wait, that's dumb 16:38:43 > 2^14 `mod` 29 16:38:44 28 16:38:48 > 2^4 `mod` 29 16:38:49 16 16:51:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:54:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:59:38 http://www.sayitwithbacon.com set fire to america 17:01:51 in canada they have Real Bacon though! 17:14:21 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:15:45 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 17:16:32 the world's most tasteful gift 17:16:47 Jacket potato? 17:16:58 yes 17:18:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:19:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:20:26 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:21:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:21:28 <`0x00> this is a cool channel. 17:21:38 <`0x00> i found it randomly. has been around for a while? 17:21:56 `relcome `0x00 17:22:00 ​`0x00: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:22:04 how long is a while 17:22:10 it's been around like a week at least 17:24:05 <`0x00> tnx 17:24:07 * `0x00 reads 17:24:17 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 17:30:02 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:31:23 -!- lambdabot has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:33:35 -!- Guest89222 has joined. 17:33:41 -!- Guest89222 has quit (Client Quit). 17:35:14 mnoqy: woow 17:35:17 a week is a long time 17:35:56 yes its pretty amazing 17:36:44 @google 1 week in nanoseconds 17:37:17 @google 1 week in nanoseconds 17:37:24 `frank 1 week -> nanoseconds 17:37:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: frank: not found 17:37:34 `frink 1 week -> nanoseconds 17:37:38 what's with you lambdabot 17:37:43 604800000000000 17:37:52 oh lambdabot isn't even in here 17:38:00 it's having issues 17:38:22 I like how my lambdabot /query got messed up and renamed to /query Guestblahblahblah. 17:38:32 it's Cale's fault 17:38:41 he has a cron job or something running the *old* lambdabot 17:38:48 which I then tried to "debug" the L.hs of 17:38:50 for hours 17:38:56 not realising it was the old lambdabot 17:39:09 Messing up my /query isn't a very Caley behavior. 17:39:33 Oops, I just realized I closed my lambdabot window which had my list of suggestions for lambdabot. 17:39:58 you had suggestions? 17:40:10 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:40:15 Naturally. 17:40:24 like what 17:40:24 People in ##categorytheory were complaining about the absence of lambdabot. 17:40:32 oh, is it not in the join list? 17:40:34 Then add it on? 17:40:34 For some reason I'm not in the admin list... I wonder why. 17:40:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:40:42 ##categorytheory ? 17:40:46 @join ##categorytheory 17:40:58 added it to online.rc too 17:41:01 is that a good channel 17:41:32 a good channel is a dead channel 17:41:33 so yes 17:41:44 > Identity () 17:41:47 Identity {runIdentity = ()} 17:41:48 > In Nothing 17:41:51 In {out = Nothing} 17:41:55 ^ the things I do for you 17:42:10 Other suggestions were to fix the quote thing to be more like HackEgo rather than the nick->quote nonsense. 17:42:27 10:41 -!- `0x00 [~ping@u.nxsh.org] has joined ##categorytheory 17:42:28 10:41 -!- `0x00 [~ping@u.nxsh.org] has left ##categorytheory [] 17:42:30 well, it's nice that you can quote non-IRC things non-awkwardly 17:43:02 ... is just as non-awkward. 17:43:13 saul gorn? 17:43:31 18:43:07 > id18:43:09 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 17:43:32 alt. literally add "SaulGorn says: ..." to the quote database 17:43:35 18:43:09 arising from a use of `M1506157215.show_M1506157215'18:43:09 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous18:43:09 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s)18:43:09 Note: there are several potential instances: 17:43:40 18:43:11 [7 @more lines] 17:43:53 I wonder why ExtendedDefaultingRules aren't firing???? 17:44:00 so why am i not in the @admin list 17:44:01 they fire for > undefined 17:45:30 mnoqy: do you gotta problem with saul gorn 17:46:09 > print 17:46:10 > id 17:46:10 <() -> IO ()> 17:46:12 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 17:46:12 arising from a use ... 17:46:12 i cant look saul gorn up because my dns isnt working 17:46:16 does anyone know why these would differ 17:46:51 maybe one of thos extended defaulting rules isnt extended =enough= 17:46:57 > const 17:46:58 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable b0) 17:46:58 arising from a use ... 17:47:02 mnoqy: 4.2.2.2, 8.8.8.8 17:47:06 http://128.91.234.106/~rclark/gorn.html 17:47:06 > return 17:47:07 hth 17:47:08 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable1 m0) 17:47:08 arising from a use... 17:47:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:47:15 shachaf: thacchaf 17:47:30 maybe it's the show constraint on print? 17:47:33 Show constraint 17:47:40 > show 17:47:41 <() -> [Char]> 17:47:41 > read 17:47:43 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 17:47:43 arising from a use ... 17:48:09 i think its Show but why 17:48:31 show no!! 17:48:57 this is a good compendium 17:49:00 thanks saul gorn 17:49:06 @quote SaulGorn 17:49:06 SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. 17:49:15 thanks saul gorn 17:49:38 mnoqy: but 17:49:39 > undefined 17:49:40 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 17:49:41 works 17:49:43 and thats forall a. a 17:49:53 oh hM 17:49:56 > undefined :: a -> a 17:49:57 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 17:49:57 arising from a use ... 17:49:57 maybe because its "wrapped in a print" 17:49:59 ^ 17:50:00 because 17:50:02 its doing 17:50:04 show undefined 17:50:08 so that induces a Show constraint 17:50:10 > undefined :: Show a => a -> a 17:50:10 so the defaulting fires 17:50:13 <() -> ()> 17:50:15 ^^^ 17:50:17 but why 17:50:26 isn't it meant to default everything to ()....... 17:50:31 including things you wanna be Typeable 17:50:32 > undefined :: Typeable a => a -> a 17:50:34 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 17:50:34 arising from a use ... 17:50:35 > undefined :: Typeable a => a 17:50:38 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 17:50:40 ????? 17:50:42 thats not a function 17:50:47 yes 17:50:49 it's intentionally not 17:50:56 uiuaf 17:51:00 itll only do the Show instance for -> if its a function 17:51:04 yes 17:51:05 omg 17:51:09 and the Show instance for -> is what needs typable 17:51:09 you don't understand what i was checking for 17:51:12 ???? 17:51:14 you don't understand what i was checking for. 17:51:25 anyway, my current hypothesis is maybe ExtendedDefaultingRules don't apply to the prerequisites of an instance 17:51:25 but its obvious that itd give an exception???? 17:51:32 no? 17:51:42 I was wondering whether it would default with Typeable there 17:52:09 =/ 17:52:26 > undefined :: () 17:52:28 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 17:52:31 :-( 17:52:43 why is show strict for ()!!!!!!!! 17:53:00 mnoqy: it s better that way........................................... 17:53:22 > absurd 17:53:25 Not in scope: `absurd' 17:53:27 I should add Data.Void. 17:53:52 > ['A'..'Z'] 17:53:54 "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" 17:54:05 @undefine 17:54:05 Undefined. 17:54:07 wow lambdabot has really gone downhill 17:54:07 > absurd 17:54:10 > view _1 (1,2) 17:54:11 L.hs:96:1: 17:54:11 Data.Void: Can't be safely imported! The module itself isn'... 17:54:12 L.hs:96:1: 17:54:12 Data.Void: Can't be safely imported! The module itself isn'... 17:54:16 omg 17:54:22 @undefine 17:54:22 Undefined. 17:54:33 maybe I should just fix the packages in question. 17:54:39 I think I have commit rights to all of them except parallel. 17:59:52 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:02:16 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:11:29 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:14:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:22:13 -!- conehead has joined. 19:03:07 oerjan: hi 19:08:02 hellørjan 19:08:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:18:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 19:18:38 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 19:18:38 -!- kallisti has joined. 19:20:51 -!- variable has joined. 19:22:39 Koen_: are you there 19:25:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:29:03 > In Nothing 19:29:07 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:29:10 > In Nothing 19:29:14 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:29:17 ugh. 19:29:19 > In Nothing 19:29:21 In {out = Nothing} 19:29:39 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting ++ ")}" in read disgusting 19:29:40 *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:29:53 > let foo = In (Just foo) in foo 19:29:56 In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = J... 19:30:09 oh 19:30:12 cool 19:30:16 In (Just ice) 19:30:17 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:21 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:23 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:27 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:29 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:32 FUCK YOYU 19:30:33 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:35 OMG 19:30:36 go to hEL 19:30:37 OMG 19:30:39 oops 19:30:42 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:45 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:46 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:47 fantastic 19:30:48 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:49 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:51 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:52 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:54 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:30:55 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:57 oh hmm 19:30:58 omg 19:30:58 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:30:59 simply fantastic 19:31:00 maybe it's an actual infinite loop 19:31:08 i assign ion to ionvestigate 19:31:11 i can't imagine it not being an actual infinite loop... 19:31:35 btw cycle hth 19:31:43 elliott, have you seen the monstrosities ion attempts with tables 19:31:44 I delegate elliott to ellook at it. 19:31:54 Taneb: yes I get bloody emails about them thanks to edwardk 19:31:57 despite not really caring about tables at all 19:31:59 thedwardk 19:32:00 is the parser expected to be able to read infinitely nested text 19:32:16 I would like it to 19:32:22 because it'd be the super-cute's 19:32:31 ur a reek 19:32:37 > read "In {out = poo" :: Mu () 19:32:38 Kind mis-match 19:32:38 The first argument of `Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Truste... 19:32:42 lol 19:32:45 > read "In {out = poo" :: Mu Maybe 19:32:48 In {out = *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:32:55 > read "In {out = Just (poo" :: Mu Maybe 19:32:58 In {out = *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:33:03 > read "In {out = Just (In Nothing)}" :: Mu Maybe 19:33:07 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:33:08 > read ("In {out = " ++ repeat ' ') :: My Maybe 19:33:10 what's Mu 19:33:10 wat 19:33:12 Not in scope: type constructor or class `My' 19:33:12 Perhaps you meant `Mu' (impor... 19:33:15 > In (Just (In Nothing)) 19:33:16 > read ("In {out = " ++ repeat ' ') :: Mu Maybe 19:33:18 In {out = Just (In {out = Nothing})} 19:33:20 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:33:21 :t In 19:33:22 f (Mu f) -> Mu f 19:33:26 > read "In {out = Just (In Nothing)}" :: Mu Maybe 19:33:27 ??? how 19:33:30 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:33:32 > read "In {out = Just (In Nothing)}" :: Mu Maybe 19:33:36 In {out = *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:33:41 @src Mu 19:33:41 newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } 19:33:50 -!- `0x00 has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:33:57 -!- `0x00 has joined. 19:33:57 > read "In {out = Just (In {out = Nothing})}" :: Mu Maybe 19:34:00 In {out = Just (In {out = Nothing})} 19:34:06 > read "In {out = Just (In {out = " :: Mu Maybe 19:34:10 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:34:14 > read "In {out = Just (In {out = " :: Mu Maybe 19:34:17 In {out = *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:34:20 elliott, how would that ever parse 19:34:21 @wa sqrt 4 19:34:23 No match for "sqrt". 19:34:23 *** "4" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 19:34:23 4 19:34:23 adj 1: being one more than three [syn: {four}, {4}, {iv}] 19:34:23 n 1: the cardinal number that is the sum of three and one [syn: 19:34:25 er. 19:34:25 {four}, {4}, {IV}, {tetrad}, {quatern}, {quaternion}, 19:34:25 nooodl: it could partially parse 19:34:26 > sqrt 4 19:34:27 {quaternary}, {quaternity}, {quartet}, {quadruplet}, 19:34:28 -!- `0x00 has quit (Changing host). 19:34:28 -!- `0x00 has joined. 19:34:29 {foursome}, {Little Joe}] 19:34:31 2.0 19:34:35 oh i see 19:34:42 but it's too strict 19:34:46 what did i do wrong :< 19:34:47 so i can't do my silly infinitely long read 19:34:54 Bike: it answered 19:34:56 "2.0" 19:35:18 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:35:21 > read $ "[" ++ cycle "1," 19:35:22 *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:35:29 > sqrt 4 19:35:30 2.0 19:35:34 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:35:39 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:35:58 > let x = sqrt (2 + x) in x 19:36:02 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:36:05 elliott: fix 19:36:22 > read "[1,2]" 19:36:23 *Exception: Prelude.read: no parse 19:36:30 oh i need to... type it... 19:36:31 wow this is awesome. 19:36:37 that defaults to () 19:36:44 Bike: this ain't mathematica boy 19:36:46 > read "In {out = \"shake it all about\"}" :: Mu String 19:36:47 Kind mis-match 19:36:47 The first argument of `Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Truste... 19:37:03 elliott: literaly angry with rage, here 19:37:27 ramanujan "not good enough for you"??? 19:37:40 > read $ "[" ++ cycle "1," :: [Int] 19:37:44 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:37:46 sad 19:38:29 > runIdentity $ read "Identity {runIdentity = ()}" 19:38:32 () 19:38:33 Bike: btw I bet you could make a really evil type that let you do that sqrt (2 + x) thing 19:38:37 the idea is 19:38:40 s/ $// 19:38:50 use observable sharing to build up an expression graph 19:39:02 you realize x is just two right 19:39:05 use a symbolic representation like the simple-reflect trick for the rest: 19:39:06 > 2 + x 19:39:09 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:39:12 um. 19:39:13 awesome 19:39:13 > 2 + x 19:39:14 > read "Identity {runIdentity = ()}" :: Identity () 19:39:15 2 + x 19:39:17 and then solve the whole thing as an equation in the Show instance 19:39:17 Identity {runIdentity = ()} 19:39:24 so that you could input let x = sqrt (2 + x) in x and get 2.0 out 19:39:35 that sounds idiotic, so, let's see it 19:39:35 in fact, I almost want to try. 19:39:49 you could even ship off the equations to satisfy to Maxima or whatever 19:39:56 lol 19:40:13 you don't understand how tempting this is 19:40:23 do it!! 19:40:29 and then /cs clear users in #haskell 19:40:53 -!- sacje has joined. 19:41:41 by the way, the reason i thought it wasn't working is because my connection died in such a way that i didn't receive any messages after lambdabot's sourcing Mu 19:41:42 i'm literally giggling over having this idea 19:42:02 so i'm pretty confused about how that got into the log and your client without me getting 2.0 back? fuck this connection is what i'm saying 19:43:50 Hang on, elliott is running lambdabot 19:43:54 You know what this means 19:44:42 i don't :-( 19:44:45 so speaking of stupid ideas i don't even get how the infinite parse is supposed to work 19:44:50 it doesn't even end with infinite brackets! 19:44:53 offensive imo. 19:45:35 @undefine 19:45:36 Undefined. 19:45:38 Taneb: what does it mean 19:45:50 elliott, are you running lambdabot locally? 19:45:55 uh 19:45:56 why do you ask 19:46:01 Like, on your computer? 19:46:05 why do you ask 19:46:11 Because if you are 19:46:15 > cycle "In {out = Just (" ++ "Nothing" ++ cycle ")}" 19:46:15 "In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = Just (In {out = ... 19:46:16 hth 19:46:17 Then lambdabot is in Hexham! 19:46:20 i am not 19:46:28 Bike: well, you can imagine Mu's parser would be like this: read ("Mu {out = " ++ s ++ "}") = Mu {out = read s} 19:46:29 nooodl: Much better. 19:46:41 WOw imagine lambdabot being in hexham 19:47:05 elliott: uh, yes? 19:47:07 }!!! 19:47:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:47:19 Bike: yes but it could "construct the value" and then error out if it doesn't see a } 19:47:37 you can't just allow parsing unterminated expressions you could kill people 19:47:46 it is terminated! 19:47:48 anarchy!! 19:47:54 would you like me to add infinite }s to the end 19:47:58 yes. 19:48:15 (i've already done that!!! ☕) 19:48:18 > let disgusting = "In {out = Just (" ++ disgusting ++ ")}" in read disgusting :: Mu Maybe 19:48:22 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:48:23 see 19:48:26 fucking broken 19:48:33 that's terrible :( 19:50:39 > reduction (2*x + 0 + 0*y / g z) 19:50:42 [2 * x + 0 + 0 * y / g z] 19:50:45 hm. 19:50:53 that supposed to simplify the expression? 19:51:44 yes 19:51:47 > reduction (0 + 0 + x) 19:51:49 [0 + 0 + x,0 + x] 19:51:53 it shows steps 19:51:56 Huh 19:51:56 looks like it's not very good at it 19:51:57 it's quite effective 19:51:59 > reduction (x + 0 + 0) 19:52:02 [x + 0 + 0] 19:52:04 lol 19:52:04 I've had a Tumblr account for a whole year 19:52:16 Bike: anyway, you've got me thinking now 19:52:18 > reduction (3 + 4 + x) 19:52:19 [3 + 4 + x,7 + x] 19:52:21 elliott: sorry 19:52:30 ok so it folds constants but doesn't eliminate identities 19:52:30 Bike: this thing could turn your expressions into arbitrary trees and then do arbitrary things with them using maxima! 19:52:33 you could even do derivatives 19:52:41 but like 19:52:42 fancy ones. 19:52:43 automatic differentiation is pretty baller 19:52:46 it's not AD 19:52:51 it's symbolic differentiation 19:52:52 woe 19:52:54 AD is way cooler 19:52:57 that's some Weak Shit son 19:53:18 @undefine 19:53:19 Undefined. 19:53:52 "Maxima's ability to solve equations is limited, but progress is being made in this area." 19:53:56 maybe it should shell out to mathematics 19:53:58 *mathematica 19:53:59 good typo 19:55:21 i'm imagining them citing richardson's theorem and just saying why bother 19:56:55 does anyone know any good free as in farts CAS type things 19:56:56 that aren't maxima 19:57:48 is octave good? 19:58:02 oh it's more numerical than CASy huh 19:58:03 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 19:58:29 oh, axiom is suppose dto be good i think? 19:59:02 also it's strongly typed or whatever "good for haskell" 20:01:13 oh man, axiom 20:01:16 i've read some of its manual 20:01:29 they started it in like the 70s and it's entirely written with knuth-style literate programming 20:01:41 it's like it exists outside of time 20:01:44 well what are your options here 20:01:53 knuth weirdness or well have you seen maxima's source 20:02:03 i haven't 20:02:08 btw i am speaking positively of axiom here 20:02:21 oh 20:02:24 hard to tell with you 20:08:01 Octave is like the hippie MATLAB. 20:13:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:13:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:15:57 :t sqrt 20:15:57 Floating a => a -> a 20:15:59 @src Floating 20:15:59 class (Fractional a) => Floating a where 20:15:59 pi :: a 20:16:00 exp, log, sqrt, sin, cos, tan :: a -> a 20:16:00 asin, acos, atan, sinh, cosh, tanh, asinh, acosh, atanh :: a -> a 20:16:00 (**), logBase :: a -> a -> a 20:16:07 @src Num 20:16:07 class (Eq a, Show a) => Num a where 20:16:07 (+), (-), (*) :: a -> a -> a 20:16:07 negate, abs, signum :: a -> a 20:16:08 fromInteger :: Integer -> a 20:17:31 @src Fractional 20:17:31 class (Num a) => Fractional a where 20:17:31 (/) :: a -> a -> a 20:17:31 recip :: a -> a 20:17:31 fromRational :: Rational -> a 20:20:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:20:17 @src Applicative 20:20:17 class Functor f => Applicative f where 20:20:17 pure :: a -> f a 20:20:17 (<*>) :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 20:20:32 Is this a proper @src? 20:20:43 @src F.Foldable 20:20:43 Source not found. Are you on drugs? 20:20:47 @src Foldable 20:20:47 Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 20:20:55 quality 20:21:03 > F.foldMap (:[]) "hello" 20:21:04 "hello" 20:24:02 Taneb: no 20:24:19 :_ 20:24:51 enhancements have to wait for me to implement this hack for Bike 20:25:02 i am ecstatic 20:31:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:34:45 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:36:29 jeg er ikke til stede for tiden. vennligst legg igjen beskjed etter pipetonen. 20:43:35 -!- redrebelion has joined. 20:44:22 hi 20:47:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ribbit). 20:48:35 -!- redrebelion has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:12:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:15:23 http://toys.usvsth3m.com/edballs/ 21:16:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:16:31 was that sound used in some windows 98 game 21:17:15 kmc: i got 0.317 21:17:18 Bike: itw as one of the startup ones i think 21:17:27 Bike: i think so yes 21:22:31 04:44:31: I don't think anyone wants a deadfish impl. in a proprietary language <-- make it a top secret language and we're talking 21:23:16 anyway my rank was Ed Balls so i think that's a success 21:23:53 0.422 :( 21:24:11 kmc: lol at that haskell thing btw 21:24:54 elliott, how 21:25:02 U+2F31D COMBINING BRITISH ACCENT <-- fascinating old chap 21:25:10 elliott's a freak man 21:25:45 ⎝oerjan 21:26:01 Bike: type fast 21:26:03 also you can omit the caps 21:26:07 ^ my cheat 21:26:14 elliott pro ballsing 21:26:30 also you can press and then ^V 21:26:36 ☝ my cheat 21:26:42 0.397 now 21:26:45 my cheat is 21:26:47 I got 0.438 ... 21:26:48 s/and/e and/ 21:26:48 who's ed balls? 21:26:52 hit e + d + space all together 21:26:53 an MP 21:26:56 until it works 21:26:58 he tweeted "Ed Balls" once 21:27:07 then type "balls" really quickly 21:27:09 this became a joke in traditional internet fashion 21:27:25 that's not a very good joke 21:27:27 geez, that name 21:27:30 in traditional internet fashion 21:27:35 that reminds me of the founder of Dick's Sporting Goods 21:27:37 "Dick Stack" 21:27:42 evening 21:28:17 that reminds me of the person who runs lambdabot 21:28:28 ok no that's mean i'll stop 21:28:29 Elliott Dickface 21:28:31 which haskell thing Bike 21:28:38 the nodejs thing 21:28:41 Fiora, he was Minister for Education under Gordon Brown's government and is now I think Shadow Chancellor, a position a lot less awesome or evil than it sounds 21:28:44 Ed Balls isn't just an MP, he's the /SHADOW CHANCELLOR/ 21:28:50 oh dang 21:28:57 Shadow Chancellor sounds like a position in some dark cult XD 21:29:00 i'm sorry for disrespecting the balls, ed balls 21:29:01 yep 21:29:08 The... the shadow chancellor wishes to speak with you, my liege. 21:29:11 the shadow chancellor isthe opposition party's chancellor right 21:29:17 much cooler title than the actual position deserves 21:29:18 right 21:29:25 his job is to complain about whatever the real chancellor is doing 21:29:39 chancellor being the person in charge of money 21:30:06 reminds me of 21:30:08 Bqhatevwr 21:30:11 "shadow chancellor" sounds like a position sauron would hold 21:30:41 isn't it like, the position he /did/ hold 21:30:55 hi Koen_ a while ago i was wondering where are the glottal stops in the pronunciation of "d'A Z" 21:31:03 or was that saruman guess what books i haven't read 21:31:13 de A à Z 21:31:27 I'd say before every syllable nooodl 21:31:40 de 'A 'à Z 21:32:10 though I guess no one would notice if you didn't stop before the first A 21:32:12 'de 'A 'à 'Z 21:32:21 'deA 'à 'Z 21:32:40 deäáz 21:32:50 deäáz of our lives 21:32:51 yeah that's a little bit weird 21:33:10 *deäàz 21:35:04 now I'm starting to think you're breton olsner 21:35:16 btw I'm considering calling my OS thingy ꙮS 21:35:39 olsner: But then you'll have to add UTF-8 support 21:35:53 please tell me the little square I can't read isn't the super-seven-eye symbol 21:35:53 nah, I just have to invent an encoding of my own 21:36:01 or just Unicode support 21:36:07 Koen_: it is 21:36:31 the most rare and exotic glyph variant of Cyrillic letter O 21:36:42 yes, the MOST RARE 21:36:47 see, I don't need to have any kind of support to know the name of your os 21:36:57 kmc: itym Cyrillic letter О 21:37:01 hth 21:37:22 the "kmc encoding": just assume all the squares are eyes, staring 21:37:32 kmc: I sort of want a citation for that, detailing the rarity and exoticism of cyrillic glyph variants 21:37:36 shachaf: That’s redundant. 21:37:39 olsner: me too 21:37:44 "how would you like your Cyrillic O?" "very rare, please" 21:37:51 you could look through all of http://old.stsl.ru/manuscripts/ 21:37:52 shachaf: Also, that’s what kmc said, isn’t it? 21:37:52 hm 21:37:58 Is it? 21:38:02 i suppose at some point you'd run into the glagolithic transition 21:38:02 > "Cyrillic letter O" 21:38:04 "Cyrillic letter O" 21:38:08 > "Cyrillic letter О" 21:38:09 "Cyrillic letter \1054" 21:38:14 I think you should call your OS ˿ѿď瑿컿 21:38:18 wait 21:38:20 But that's jus tme 21:38:29 Oh, sorry. I failed at copying from kmc’s line and still had your О in the clipboard. 21:38:38 is the name of the unicode character "Cyrillic letter O" or ""Cyrillic letter О" 21:38:43 this is seriously going to bother me 21:38:45 the former 21:38:49 Unicode character names are ASCII 21:38:56 \rainbow{bootstrapping} 21:39:00 weird 21:39:07 i liked the proposal that they should be allowed to use any character that comes before that character 21:39:08 I prefer to think of them as "restricted Unicode". 21:39:11 There’s \rainbow{}? 21:39:17 Or maybe ၔၕၦၧգལā 21:39:19 ion: it's a convention from another channel 21:39:20 if you're kmc 21:39:30 kmc.tex 21:39:32 i think there is an irssi plugin that actually produces rainbows 21:39:36 but people got annoyed at them 21:39:37 That proposal is problematic because it gives a preference to lower codepoints. 21:39:39 heh 21:39:48 FreeFull: what's that, most of the letters are missing in my fonts :/ 21:39:50 I don't know about a plugin, but I have a toilet alias for it 21:39:59 They should be allowed to use any character that cames after that character. 21:40:01 toilet alias 21:40:05 kmc: Just random shit 21:40:10 -_- 21:40:26 ^rainbow I herd there's also a bot 21:40:27 I herd there's also a bot 21:40:37 http://caca.zoy.org/wiki/toilet 21:40:57 toilet is a figlet replacement 21:41:02 ^rainbow boostrapping 21:41:02 boostrapping 21:41:23 I think they should be able to use any character that doesn't produce loops in the dependency graph, the ordering of characters should not be relevant to their description 21:41:28 "Rainbow bootstrapping" is a fancy name for rain. 21:41:55 I think my rainbow looks better than yours 21:42:03 (err, does unicode describe "characters" or some other term?) 21:42:32 FreeFull: ^rainbow rainbow isn't designed, though, it's just consecutive colors for ease of implementation. 21:42:47 olsner: imo allow fixpoints!!! 21:43:18 olsner: Code points are what many of the lists are made of, at least. 21:43:25 Bike: yes, that was my original thought actually, anything that brings the unicode standard to a fix point should be ok 21:43:46 you can download the Unicode Character Database so I guess they are 'characters' 21:43:58 "Character" in Unicode means: "(1) The smallest component of written language that has semantic value; refers to the abstract meaning and/or shape, rather than a specific shape (see also glyph), though in code tables some form of visual representation is essential for the reader’s understanding. (2) Synonym for abstract character. (3) The basic unit of encoding for the Unicode character ... 21:44:04 ... encoding. (4) The English name for the ideographic written elements of Chinese origin. [See ideograph (2).]" 21:44:17 uhhhh characters have semantics now? 21:44:23 a lot of those 'characters' are not part of written language though 21:44:28 The character database is presumably using sense (3). 21:44:50 would be nice if unicode (or something like "does the unicode character descriptions reach a fixed point") was undecidable 21:44:56 Bike: they can be assigned semantics... e.g. mathematical bold and italic are different characters because maths papers define them to mean different things, because fuck maths 21:45:11 The difference from code point seems to be that all numbers from 0 to 0x10ffff are code points, but not of them are assigned to characters. 21:45:54 kmc: but in natural language they barely even define phonemics, i mean 21:46:14 fizzie: are the values corresponding to UTF-16 surrogate pair code units considered to be code points in Unicode? 21:46:30 yeah 21:46:38 kmc: Apparently. ("Code Point. (1) Any value in the Unicode codespace; that is, the range of integers from 0 to 10FFFF16. (See definition D10 in Section 3.4, Characters and Encoding.)") 21:46:55 (That 16 is a subscript.) 21:47:38 There are also seven fundamental classes of code points -- Graphic, Format, Control, Private-Use, Surrogate, Noncharacter, Reserved. 21:49:21 > 0x10FFFF16 21:49:22 285212438 21:49:47 > 0x1000000000000000000000 21:49:48 19342813113834066795298816 21:50:08 @hoogle Map k a -> k -> Bool 21:50:09 Data.Map.Lazy member :: Ord k => k -> Map k a -> Bool 21:50:10 Data.Map.Strict member :: Ord k => k -> Map k a -> Bool 21:50:10 Data.Map.Lazy notMember :: Ord k => k -> Map k a -> Bool 21:50:28 what's notMember for exactly 21:50:38 checking if a key isn't a member hth 21:51:02 gotcha 21:51:13 so you can write «x `notMember` y» instead of «not (x `member` y)» and it's a little bit nicer I guess 21:51:35 Map kak bool 21:51:44 or better yet «map (`notMember` y)» vs «map (not . (`member` y))» 21:51:59 shachaf: always so hthelpful 21:53:12 @hoogle (k -> k') -> Map k a -> Map k' a 21:53:12 Data.Map.Lazy mapKeysMonotonic :: (k1 -> k2) -> Map k1 a -> Map k2 a 21:53:12 Data.Map.Strict mapKeysMonotonic :: (k1 -> k2) -> Map k1 a -> Map k2 a 21:53:12 Data.Map.Lazy mapKeys :: Ord k2 => (k1 -> k2) -> Map k1 a -> Map k2 a 21:53:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:54:43 @hoogle olsner 21:54:44 No results found 21:54:49 @hoogle elliott 21:54:49 No results found 21:54:51 ): 21:55:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:59:30 FreeFull: I'm not a function, hth 22:00:59 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:10 -!- EgoBot has joined. 22:01:14 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:01:14 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 22:01:14 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:01:16 olsner: You should be 22:01:29 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:01:34 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 22:09:55 -!- parapooper has joined. 22:11:16 -!- parapooper has left. 22:11:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:15:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:26:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:31:08 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:33:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:37:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Reboot again?!). 22:45:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:49:32 kmc: once upon a time i installed a shareware program whose purpose was to reverse strings 22:49:41 i think it was reasonably popular 22:49:51 ? 22:49:56 Oo 22:50:10 the good old days of rtl text 22:50:41 (The program would reverse text as you copy it into the clipboard or something like that.) 22:51:12 fahcahs 22:51:32 sounds extremely useful if you copy links 22:51:49 oerjan: more like ףחש 22:52:05 (Which shows up correctly for me because my terminal doesn't handle RTL text.) 22:52:21 is that fchsh or shchf? 22:54:13 the people of israel have decided: vowels are for fucking wusses 22:55:02 like many non-english languages they have learned to encode information in diacritics 22:55:11 vowels are optional 22:55:24 שַׁחַף hth 22:56:31 (That ׁ indicates that the ש is a sh and not a s. hth) 22:56:42 I wonder which direction a) that was rendered, b) should've been rendered, or c) should be read 22:57:10 are there supposed to be circles with the vowel signs or is my terminal broken for them 22:57:10 the sh appaeared at the end of the line, so I'm guessing backwards 22:57:50 olsner: The three letters are: 22:57:51 (almost certainly broken since the circles make the consonants even harder to see 22:57:54 ש 22:57:54 ח 22:57:55 ף 22:57:57 ) 22:58:04 nice capture, oerjan 22:58:05 They should be written from right to left. 22:58:10 help 22:58:14 @slap oerjan 22:58:14 * lambdabot orders her trained monkeys to punch oerjan 22:58:33 i got me some hebrew letters! 22:58:52 shachaf: is that from right to wrong or from wrong to right? 22:59:05 From least to best. 22:59:19 (We're talking about coasts of the US now.) 22:59:26 from worst to most? 22:59:56 a wise man once said the west is the best 23:02:09 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:03:43 how wise of him 23:04:13 fungot: where is the west and the best? are they in fact the same? 23:04:13 olsner: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale? 23:09:37 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:19:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:20:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:27:48 hm moving the new laptop to the left end of the table made eating pizza too complicated 23:29:03 oerjan world problems 23:29:26 we all have pizza problems, man. we all do 23:31:55 because i use my right hand on the touchpad, i have to eat pizza with the left, but now there was nowhere to put it. (yes, i already have moved the laptop out of the way) 23:35:12 also the reason i moved the laptop to the left is because the cord is shorter than the old one, and plugs in on the left, so it's uncomfortable to have it where the old one was when plugged in. 23:36:03 also oerjan world problems (including the irony) seems to be me in a nutshell. 23:36:28 I could easily create something like monad syntax in Rebol... but I think it would be inefficient 23:36:46 "monad syntax"? 23:36:56 A do notation equivalent 23:37:15 rules of programming 1) write in Haskell 2) write beautiful code, without regard to efficiency 3) optomize ONLY as needed 23:37:18 hth 23:37:39 The design I'm thinking of would put the do notation processing inside the function passed to bind... 23:37:46 Each time bind is used 23:39:11 well don't do that then hth 23:41:41 But it's the easiest thing to di 23:41:42 do 23:41:58 > fix ("hth "++) 23:41:59 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:42:01 And not sure how else to do it, without making the syntax more unreboly than it currently is 23:42:37 FreeFull: now i'm reading it as "hadith" 23:42:37 unreboly? 23:43:06 runreholy 23:44:13 > cycle "hth " 23:44:14 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:45:03 hadi to help 23:45:16 oerjan: that hardly seems very functional! 23:45:41 > concatMap (const "hth ") [1..] 23:45:42 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:46:00 Bike: but it's very cyclic! 23:46:19 > [1..] >>= const "hth " 23:46:19 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:46:33 oerjan: you could stand to learn a thing or two from freefull here. 23:46:51 Slightly annoying to specify which locals you want to use at the beginning of the function. I mean, you don't _have_ to, but I gather it's the most convenient thing to do 23:46:59 that's not even constant memory! 23:47:08 > const "hth " <$> [1..] 23:47:09 ["hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth ","hth... 23:47:15 Woops, that one's wrong 23:47:31 > const "hth " <$> [1..] >>= id 23:47:31 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:47:43 > [1..]>>"hth " 23:47:44 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:47:55 oerjan: Psh, too simple 23:48:01 How will anyone know what that code does 23:48:10 > [1..] *> "hth " 23:48:11 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:48:16 can you do it without the explicit space? that is with "hth" instead of "hth " 23:48:47 Sure 23:49:04 > unwords $ fix ("hth":) 23:49:05 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 23:49:06 :t (*>) 23:49:07 Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b 23:49:10 cool 23:50:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:51:45 Koen_: How's that? 23:51:56 yup it's good 23:53:21 > fix \x -> 2 + sqrt x 23:53:22 :1:5: parse error on input `\' 23:53:30 > fix (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 23:53:34 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:53:41 i just can't win ;_; 23:54:14 Bike: try iterate 23:54:27 it's just not the same man 23:56:16 I do believe you can implement iterate in terms of fix 23:56:52 If this works I will gibber insanely 23:57:03 (If it doesn't work I will also gibber insanely) 23:57:23 ☺ 23:58:02 we're used to it 23:59:15 > let iterate' f a = fix (\x -> f a : map f x) in iterate' (+3) 0 23:59:16 [3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,33,36,39,42,45,48,51,54,57,60,63,66,69,72,75,78... 23:59:25 Wait, not quite the same 23:59:43 > let iterate' f a = fix (\x -> a : map f x) in iterate' (+3) 0 23:59:43 [0,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,33,36,39,42,45,48,51,54,57,60,63,66,69,72,75,... 23:59:45 There 23:59:50 ma: do/next next assigns 'next-assigns 23:59:59 This is not really the most readable code I have ever written 2013-06-12: 00:02:04 > fix (\x y z -> y : map z x) 1 (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 00:02:05 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 00:02:05 with actual type `a0 -> (a... 00:03:15 Oh right 00:03:49 > fix (\x y z -> y : map z (x y z)) 1 (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 00:03:50 [1.0,3.0,3.732050807568877,3.9318516525781364,3.982889722747621,3.995717846... 00:03:58 Bike: How's that? 00:04:25 It's converging to a different number... 00:04:32 constants are changing 00:04:51 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 1 00:04:52 [1.0,3.0,3.732050807568877,3.9318516525781364,3.982889722747621,3.995717846... 00:04:56 (four does not equal the square root of six) 00:05:03 >> do-monad identity-m [a: 5 b: 6] [a + b] 00:05:03 == 11 00:05:17 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 2.44 00:05:18 [2.44,3.5620499351813306,3.887339379968884,3.9716336830072883,3.99289580334... 00:05:23 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 5 00:05:24 [5.0,4.23606797749979,4.058171027271492,4.014490264873844,4.0036192914009,4... 00:05:33 Sgeo_: Why wouldn't it converge to 4? 00:05:47 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) -- maybe i fucked up. 00:05:48 [Double]> 00:05:56 FreeFull, um, why are you asking me? 00:06:00 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) 2 00:06:00 [2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.... 00:06:02 typo, probably 00:06:06 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) 5 00:06:06 Sgeo_: Woops 00:06:07 [5.0,2.6457513110645907,2.1554004989942337,2.0384799481462244,2.00959696161... 00:06:30 Bike: That converges to 2 00:06:31 yeah, my mistake. 00:06:46 like usual *sobs all over Sgeo_* 00:07:02 > iterate (\x -> sqrt 6) 0 00:07:04 [0.0,2.449489742783178,2.449489742783178,2.449489742783178,2.44948974278317... 00:07:07 There you go 00:07:29 lol 00:07:37 =P 00:09:26 i see those iBooter spammers have got annoying again... 00:10:53 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 00:10:54 [1.0,0.0,-Infinity,6.0,5.0,4.8,4.75,4.7368421052631575,4.733333333333333,4.... 00:10:57 -!- jerkbot1 has joined. 00:10:59 -!- jerkbot1 has quit (Excess Flood). 00:11:03 I have no idea what that converges to 00:11:32 i wonder if we dodged a bullet there... 00:11:44 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100 00:11:45 4.732050807568878 00:11:58 -!- jerkbot1 has joined. 00:12:00 -!- jerkbot1 has quit (Excess Flood). 00:12:05 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:12:05 > (iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100)^2 00:12:06 22.392304845413268 00:12:14 don't ban it 00:12:15 I have no idea what the significance of that number is 00:12:16 i wanna see what it does 00:12:17 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:12:24 heh 00:12:27 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:12:40 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:12:46 71/15, there we go. i'm good at math 00:12:51 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:12:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:13:05 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 1000 00:13:06 4.732050807568878 00:13:09 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 10000 00:13:10 4.732050807568878 00:13:12 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100000 00:13:13 4.732050807568878 00:13:15 ok 00:13:19 or some nasty ass fraction 00:13:29 >> do-monad list-m [a: [1 2 3] b: [4 5 6]] [a + b] 00:13:30 == [5 6 7 6 7 8 7 8 9] 00:13:31 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100000 :: CReal 00:13:32 *Exception: stack overflow 00:13:34 Well, google does give results for the number 00:13:37 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 10000 :: CReal 00:13:41 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:13:42 So it is something 00:13:43 lol. 00:13:45 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 1000 :: CReal 00:13:49 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:13:53 x = 6 - 6/x, x² = 6x - 6, x² - 6x + 6 = 0, bla bla whatever. 00:14:06 more like bike = sucks 00:14:10 basically yeah 00:14:11 ;_; 00:14:13 harsh but fair 00:14:13 Bike: Probably that 00:14:19 bike = the best hth 00:14:29 whaddya mean "probably" 00:14:59 Probably that's why there are google results for it 00:15:02 http://pastie.org/8035336 00:15:08 Probably not the best Rebol code in existence 00:15:24 has anyone else started caring about rebol yet 00:15:32 i think kmc did once maybe 00:15:53 monad/bind ma :f 00:15:57 I should make that :ma not ma 00:15:59 also what on earth does it need return for 00:17:38 Because pure is lame 00:17:39 15:48:53: You should configure a key combination in your Emacs to access it. 00:17:43 15:49:10: The key combination should be prominently listed on top of the cheat sheet, since you'll be needing it often. 00:17:46 sounds logical. 00:17:53 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:17:57 oerjan: imo, op me. 00:18:02 > pure "logic" 00:18:03 No instance for (Control.Applicative.Applicative f0) 00:18:03 arising from a use ... 00:18:12 > pure "logic" :: [[Char]] 00:18:13 ["logic"] 00:18:33 > 4 ** 3 00:18:34 64.0 00:18:46 elliott: imo, @admin + me 00:19:16 > (\a b c -> ((negate b) + sqrt(b**2 - 4*a*c)) / 2*a) 1 -6 6 00:19:17 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num 00:19:17 (GHC.Integer.Type.Intege... 00:19:22 yeah ok whatever. 00:19:26 Wonder how badly the internals of that thing can be messed up 00:20:25 :t sqrt 00:20:25 Floating a => a -> a 00:20:43 Bike: (-6) 00:21:04 are you serious 00:21:06 > -6 00:21:07 -6 00:21:11 ?? 00:21:30 haskell more like i have no idea what's happeningskell 00:21:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:51 > (*) 1 -6 -- is it some parse weirdness 00:21:52 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 00:21:52 arising from a use ... 00:21:56 wow awesome 00:22:00 > (*) 1 (negate 6) 00:22:00 -6 00:22:12 > (\a b c -> ((negate b) + sqrt(b**2 - 4*a*c)) / 2*a) 1 (negate 6) 6 00:22:13 4.732050807568877 00:22:14 > (*) 1 (-6) 00:22:15 -6 00:22:18 there. i have scienced 00:22:32 i am now at the level of a seventh grader algebraist 00:25:17 Bike: Now do differentation or integration 00:25:29 ugh i already had to do that today 00:25:35 Dsin = cos do i win 00:26:16 Bike: now do DD 00:26:22 No, you have to write it in lisp 00:26:27 what! 00:26:39 scheme is fine too 00:26:43 (D-DD)sin = cos + sin bam 00:27:01 no not D ∘ D 00:27:07 D(D) 00:27:13 haha you ass 00:27:25 what's the type of D 00:27:29 does anyone know why these would differ <-- extended defaulting still requires a "standard" class to be involved in the mess. typeable isn't one, but show is. 00:27:34 it isn't just (R -> R) -> (R -> R) 00:27:35 It's a linear operator. 00:27:43 So... yeah, that works. 00:27:44 shachaf: Something like Expr a -> Expr a 00:28:01 no, that doesn't work because it could be e.g. (C -> C) -> C -> C 00:28:24 so D : Something a => (a -> a) -> a -> a 00:28:27 why do i have a file named crap.sh 00:28:29 Field a 00:28:29 is (R -> R) an instance of Something? 00:28:31 call it good 00:28:35 oh it's a 900 character long qemu-kvm command line 00:28:43 ok are functions from R to R a field 00:29:09 Ah, don't think so, square integrable ones are though? Maybe? I'm shit at analysis 00:29:10 shachaf: (R -> R) is a monoid 00:29:18 > print 00:29:19 <() -> IO ()> 00:29:24 > id 00:29:25 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 00:29:25 arising from a use ... 00:29:26 Bike: look i just want the derivative of taking derivatives 00:29:33 tensors hth 00:29:34 don't make this more difficult than it needs to be hth 00:29:41 :t print 00:29:42 Show a => a -> IO () 00:30:04 > undefined :: () -> IO () 00:30:06 <() -> IO ()> 00:30:57 haha wikipedia has a whole article on generalizing differentiation, sweet 00:31:24 shachaf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_derivative 00:31:37 https: plz thx hth 00:31:50 http's 00:31:51 shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_derivative 00:31:58 btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivation_(abstract_algebra) 00:32:02 yeah i know 00:32:07 shachaf: why don't you just use https everywhere or w/e 00:32:19 elliott: why doesn't Bike hth 00:32:25 i told you it was a linear map! but nooooo 00:32:40 anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalizations_of_the_derivative and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalizations_of_the_derivative 00:33:29 I wonder if this is related to fractional calculus. 00:33:53 hey p-adic analysis is a thing 00:34:11 joke: do you relate type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory, because you're pretty HoTT 00:34:22 thank you i'll be here all week 00:34:28 jesus fuck dude 00:34:53 i agree with Bike 00:35:02 i agree with mnoqy 00:35:05 but not with Bike 00:35:16 update: still laughing at my own joke 00:35:30 update: still laughing in horror at elliott's joke 00:35:35 `smlist 00:35:36 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 00:35:47 thachaf 00:36:33 > permutations "mnoqy" 00:36:34 ["mnoqy","nmoqy","onmqy","nomqy","omnqy","monqy","qonmy","oqnmy","onqmy","q... 00:36:38 > print 3 00:36:39 00:36:43 imo we should add all of those to smlist. 00:36:44 i bet that gopher relates type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory 00:36:44 Interesting 00:36:48 No longer ugly errors 00:36:58 thanks be to lambdabot's new master, elliott 00:37:00 death to cale 00:37:05 mnoqy: i literally 00:37:07 fucking thought 00:37:09 goddamn 00:37:43 update: laughing at my own joke for the second time 00:37:51 19:03:07: oerjan: hi 00:37:51 19:08:02: hellørjan 00:37:52 update: get a life!!! 00:37:56 EVENING 00:38:08 get oerjan's life i bet he's not using it!! 00:38:19 how about i get your life (i'm hitting on you again) 00:38:24 i'm with Bike 00:38:39 my life mostly involves feeling bad about social programs sorry 00:38:43 "not very high-life" 00:38:58 highlife the CA 00:38:59 hang on are we playing hit on the monqy 00:39:04 my life mostly involves not participating in any social programs, hth 00:39:05 i keep seeing that flash ad 00:39:07 it's good 00:39:35 Bike: maybe you should move to los angeles like Fiora 00:39:42 then you can feel bad about socal programs 00:39:57 social pogroms 00:39:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:40:02 ? 00:40:14 i think fiora actually lives in para-LA 00:40:22 i love highlife the CA 00:40:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:40:29 highlife the CA is pretty cool 00:40:31 ... para-LA? 00:40:31 kmc, look at my Rebol code? >.> 00:40:31 para-LA? 00:40:33 no 00:40:34 night and day is my favorite though 00:40:41 is that like a parala universe 00:40:43 i am starting to think win8 isn't very good at keeping connections open 00:40:45 kmc: whoa, man 00:40:54 high life, los angeles 00:40:57 elliott: You should @admin + me. 00:40:57 los angeles is in california (CA) 00:41:04 highlife is a CA 00:41:05 coincidence? 00:41:10 what's a para-LA... 00:41:10 coïncidence? 00:41:23 para-LA, ortho-LA, meta-LA 00:41:33 I should make a bot that fixes words like "cooperate" to add diæreses. 00:42:11 finally i will stop pronouncing it as "coin cidence" 00:42:37 cowincidence hth 00:42:58 the cow incidence in los angeles is unusually high today...... 00:43:03 is that so 00:43:10 but the cow palace is in SF 00:43:34 'pata-LA 00:43:58 kmc: is "overr̈eaction" an overr̈eaction 00:44:24 hey do y'all remember the secret cow level 00:44:46 BTW a fantasy tower defense card game I made called Mage Tower is coming out on June 28th, if you're into that stuff NERD 00:44:49 -JohnnySmash 00:44:52 Bike is JohnnySmash??????? 00:45:05 Yes. 00:45:15 secret identity∶ revealed 00:45:19 am i "the person who calls people nerds" 00:45:22 wow that ∶ was disappointing 00:45:35 Bike: yes and it's kind of rude 00:45:46 nerds are kind of rude 00:46:11 bike you're a nerd :< 00:46:15 calling people names considered harmful 00:46:19 especially yourself 00:46:39 i agree w/ Fiora and disagree w/ Bike (general statement) 00:46:39 Fiora: common misconception, ,i'm actually two nerds wearing a trenchcoat (it has like /nine/ pocket protectors) 00:46:46 also: nouns considered harmfulest, and adjectives considered harmfuler 00:46:53 and verbs considered the least harmful 00:46:58 verbing rocks 00:47:00 this is my philosophy on saying things about people 00:47:09 Bike: is that enough protectors for two nerds 00:47:12 why you gotta nerd so hard, shachaf 00:47:14 Bike: are those two very small nerds? 00:47:28 Fiora: no i'm like eleven feet tall total 00:47:39 turns out Fiora is actually half of a nerd wearing a quarter of a trenchcoat 00:47:40 bike is actually a Blame character 00:47:46 I- am not! 00:47:53 but can you prove it!! 00:47:57 which half 00:48:01 well um 00:48:04 for one I'm not wearing a trenchcoat 00:48:04 checkmate 00:48:12 hey kid want some of this *opens trenchcoat* *dozens of trenchcoats fall to the ground* 00:48:16 case closed 00:48:32 Bike: i'm actually trenchcoats all the way down 00:48:44 > fix trenchcoat 00:48:44 Not in scope: `trenchcoat' 00:48:52 elliott: ↑ 00:48:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_coats_in_popular_culture 00:49:23 http pls 00:49:34 82 degrees is a little warm for that kind of clothing, I think 00:49:41 @google 82 f in c 00:49:43 27.7777778 degrees Celsius 00:49:43 http://www.goodcooking.com/conversions/temp.htm 00:49:43 Title: Fahrenheit to Celsius Conversions 00:49:58 that's a little hot for just about any kind of clothing 00:50:07 though, it's only 24 C right now and I'm inside and it's probably 20 here 00:50:38 thx for using ℃ 00:50:44 shachaf: later in the summer it can get up to 36-39C sometimes 00:50:47 those are days I go to work early 00:50:50 Fiora: :-( 00:50:50 and come home late 00:51:10 you're in LA area with no air conditioning?? condolences 00:51:17 no way of course we have AC 00:51:19 thank goddess 00:51:23 oh ok 00:51:30 but I walk to/from work 00:51:41 so I can't, like, /totally/ pretend the weather doesn't exist 00:51:42 i lived on the top floor of a dorm with no AC, in a hall known as "Hell" for reasons which should be obvious 00:51:43 Fiora: have you considered that your emplyer is using a weather control machine to make you work long hours 00:51:49 o 00:52:09 my first year I had to have a window unit, it worked okay though 00:52:19 though, the first week of school, it reached ~43 C 00:52:25 which was like unusual even for here 00:52:31 omg 00:52:34 yes that is absurd 00:52:37 can humans even survive at those temperatures 00:52:37 and I remember all the faculty were like "I'm sorry frosh ;_; it is not normally like this" 00:52:42 hmm the record high temperature recorded in tel aviv was in may 00:52:45 pretty sure if it ever reached 35 C i would become a liquid 00:52:48 one time we gave all the prefrosh food poisoning! 00:52:54 at prefrosh weekend 00:53:01 the yield rate was unusually low that year 00:53:01 it never reached 43C the rest of my 4 years there, I think 00:53:17 it was literally just for the first week frosh were there. it was like, even the weather hates frosh 00:53:24 elliott: Cats actually do turn liquid around that temperature. 00:53:33 are you a cat scientist 00:53:34 I have witnessed cats dripping off bookshelves and such. 00:53:39 shachaf: making physics fun 00:53:42 shachaf: http://24.media.tumblr.com/af3987d0a104ea6ba65d6c1a04b5919d/tumblr_mgsrybJ49R1r2dft2o1_500.jpg 00:53:45 Cats are liquid! 00:54:13 Their melting point is somewhere above room temperature. 00:54:46 I am seriously bad at heat though, I can't stand anything over um like 26C 00:54:54 Fiora: why are you in los angeles 00:55:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:55:11 I'm near the coast! it's normally really cool here actually 00:55:21 imo bad decision 00:55:21 like it's usually no more than like 20-25C most of the year, even the summer 00:55:24 maybe move to san francisco 00:55:24 and um 00:55:29 this is kind of where I got a job >_< 00:55:34 cats don't maintain constant volume... 00:57:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:00:18 Fiora: imo get a job in san francisco 01:00:31 -!- Bike has joined. 01:00:31 all the cool people like kmc are doing it 01:01:52 I... I don't think that's so easy... 01:02:19 you know lots of things 01:02:22 'hella things' as they say in sf 01:02:31 but, maybe you like your current job! that is fine too 01:02:54 I have like no web programming skills, I'm terribly anxious at interviews, and I'm not really a great programmer or anything compared to like the silicon valley people 01:03:00 i hate all my current jobs. i also love all my current jobs 01:03:15 also, all of my current jobs are the same job, but no two of them are the smae. 01:03:18 same. 01:03:20 and I don't think I could keep to a startup schedule 01:03:25 you shouldn't abuse quantification motherfucker 01:03:47 also, for all of my current jobs, 2 + 2 = 5 01:03:54 once i develop my ant army i'll just give you a pension fiora 01:04:03 ant army? 01:04:06 most of the silicon valley people are not very good programmers 01:04:09 the joke is that elliott has no current jobs 01:04:15 thank you shachaf, that was indeed the joke 01:04:16 certainly most of them couldn't write optimized SSE assembly code like woah 01:04:29 not all companies in sf/sv are startups 01:04:31 Fiora: yeah, i'm gonna conquer the caucasus. 01:04:31 i would say web programming skills are generally a downside to finding a non-awful programming job 01:04:41 this has applied to all the programming jobs i have had (hint: the joke is that this set is also empty) 01:04:54 they plug together existing open source projects in boring ways to make billion dollar products that have little/no interesting tech 01:04:56 you're a leech elliott a leach! 01:04:58 I'm also really bad at dealing with people in-person and I don't really feel like I'd fit in (at least definitely not better than now...) 01:05:08 so yes stay away from web startups, but don't feel inferior to them 01:05:18 also geez what kind of cool startup wants some person with ancient skills like that :p 01:05:29 they have an awful shitty cult online of making people feel inferior to them 01:05:30 ancient 01:05:32 it's the worst 01:05:33 the computing world is scary 01:05:40 yes ancient skills like programming for the Intel chip that came out LAST WEEK >_< 01:05:50 that's like four years in intel time 01:06:21 it's true that companies with interesting tech are harder to find than web startups 01:06:28 but nobody really cares about assembly stuff anymore... like they're all talking about html and css and rails and go and rust and racket and 01:06:35 you can swing a dead cat and find a web startup 01:06:35 and like a million other things I know nothing about 01:06:45 Fiora: do you not deal with people in person now 01:07:06 I know one of the few remaining places that has assembly up the wazoo is game development (?) but oh gosh no that industry no no no no no 01:07:09 i can think of a cool startup. that's kind of weird. 01:07:13 (it's not a web startup) 01:07:18 no don't work in game development 01:07:19 shachaf: I kind of avoid it as much as possible 01:07:28 Fiora: what is your job anyway 01:07:31 was that one of the secret things 01:07:39 her job is avoiding talking about her job 01:07:40 I work at a software company in orange county 01:07:47 pretty well paying, i hear 01:08:15 it's not that amazing really I just have nothing to spend the money on 01:08:18 low-level assembly optimisation is till really important, it's just not fashionable. but also half the fashionable things are awful anyway, so fashionability doesn't really matter 01:08:31 and geez I don't only do that. like I program C too and I struggle horribly at C++ 01:08:33 imo it's better to have an obscure skill than a common, fashionable one 01:08:38 Fiora: I did some SSE optimization at a startup in SV once! 01:08:45 cool :o 01:08:48 And I didn't even know anything about it before I started. 01:08:50 (unless it is really super obscure) 01:08:54 Most things don't need low-level optimisation 01:08:57 The ones that do, get it 01:09:05 i can always rely on FreeFull for the tautologies 01:09:05 (I still don't know much about it. But I was reasonably successful in the thing I was doing!) 01:09:12 right, and most programmers can't do low-level optimisation, which means that the ones who can will get paid a lot 01:09:20 > True == True 01:09:20 True 01:09:26 and that's why fiora has enough money to finance her rap career 01:09:30 -_- 01:09:46 I... really maybe it's easier if you can like, "market your skills" or something? 01:09:56 Fiora: i mean your low-level skills are probably roughly a billion times more employable than my functional programming skills :V 01:10:02 Isn't that supposed to finance itself? 01:10:04 there are like 10 haskell jobs 01:10:15 more like 10.............hundred 01:10:27 1000 isn't too bad 01:10:36 but as bike knows from the other day that (combined with well, the vast gap in competence), that kind of thing is the difference between me and someone like 0xabad1dea 01:10:57 i'm p. mad at 0xabad1dea 01:11:17 because i came up with that hexadecimal string all on my own and then i looked it up and it was someone's username 01:11:20 lool 01:11:30 (context: a week or few ago I finally stumbled upon her page and was like /oh my gosh there is someone else who tries to do the whole "let's combine girliness and total assembly geekery" thing/ 01:11:32 0xfacebeef 01:11:47 and then I quickly discovered "oh my gosh I am so completely, vastly, categorically inferior to this person") 01:11:52 -_- 01:12:01 Fiora: you say that about everybody 01:12:09 so imo don't listen to yourself hth 01:12:10 itt: fuck impostor syndrome 01:12:12 and then you realized it was actually a page you wrote 01:12:40 impostor syndrome ;_; 01:12:41 meanwhile: saddest personal realisation from the whole prism affair: libertarians have soured me to anti-authoritarianism 01:12:41 not to be like "this is you" but i read this article today https://medium.com/tech-talk/bdae04e46ec5 01:12:47 it's kind of hard to not listen to yourself 01:13:01 yeah, you get used to it though 01:13:06 Phantom_Hoover: :( i may have the same realization just now 01:13:13 especially if you get a psychiatrist or whatever (NOT RELEVANT TO FIORA WARNING) 01:13:39 and yeah i had that same feeling about libertarians, luckily i'm annoyed at maoists now instead 01:13:40 I guess it is really important to distinguish "against current authorities" from "against the existence of any authorities in any form" 01:13:45 Fiora: imo listen to Bike instead 01:13:48 it's their damn rhetoric 01:14:18 kmc's article seems pretty good 01:14:34 "In my head I held a definition of a good programmer, and I didn’t fit it. My repertoire of keyboard shortcuts was relatively pathetic. I was not a fount of esoteric details of various programming languages." hehhhhh i know that feeling 01:14:43 instead of listening to myself i listen to Bike 01:15:16 kmc: i don't think that's necessarily the distinction you need to put hating libertarians in a different category 01:15:20 Fiora: i can tell you as someone who has interviewed a lot of programmers that if I saw http://fiorasm.tumblr.com/ i would be like "we must talk to this person now" 01:15:30 like, non-ancap anarchists aren't the same thing as libertarians 01:15:35 kmc: http://i.imgur.com/pQ6RWVf.png this is how I feel after glancing at her chart 01:15:49 not just because you know SSE minutae but because you clearly can think, refine ideas, get them working, and then explain them 01:15:58 Fiora: :/ 01:16:16 I guess I would say that even a tiny overlap between "what you know" and "things that matter" is enough for a fulfilling career 01:16:18 trust me 01:16:26 other people don't know shit about things that matter 01:16:30 i mean obviously, nobody knows more than a tiny fraction of things 01:16:34 thus is the modern world 01:16:53 oerjan knows everything 01:17:07 I guess, it's more like, "oh yay my wonderful autistic brain has collected a vast quantity of useless information, so it looks like I ~know things~" 01:17:20 man i have the same feeling and i'm allistic 01:17:27 "i'm not smart, i just read a lot" 01:17:32 * pikhq follows up with Google recruiter 01:17:36 god damn impostor syndrome 01:17:37 "i'm not smart, i just know a ton of useless trivia" 01:17:45 this is one of the reasons why I hate Hacker News and kin so much 01:17:49 also with the imposter syndrome there's like 01:17:51 they argue all the time about who's a Real Programmer 01:17:59 Fiora: well do you think i'm smart 01:18:14 kmc: the answer is i'm a real programmer and nobody else is, hope this helps 01:18:20 also, i'm a real person and nobody else is. solipsism life 01:18:22 "okay, I accept that I'm good at assembly, I accept that I'm actually really good at this stuff, but I feel like I'm awful at everything outside of a super super narrow sphere, and when I try to venture out of it, I'm not completely incapable, but I feel really crappy" 01:18:26 *really crappy at it 01:18:59 yeah 01:19:03 learning = failing 01:19:07 repeatedly 01:19:14 well uh, i guess i'd say there are ways to acknowledge that you're feeling something other than saying "this feeling reflects reality" 01:19:17 it's tough 01:19:21 kmc, that article was a bit frustrating because i'm probably more familiar with the slightly different brand of impostor syndrome you get in maths 01:19:27 that's a really good article though... thanks 01:19:31 i don't have any sage advice on how to get past the "failing repeatedly" stage of learning 01:19:49 kmc: fortunately failing repeatedly is a p. good way to get past it 01:19:58 is it, though 01:20:12 Phantom_Hoover: interesting, what's the key difference do you think 01:20:17 hmm 01:20:21 The imposter syndrome thing really does suck. 01:20:29 Especially when combined with depression. 01:20:34 well it seems like in computing you're comparing yourself more to this abstract image of The Real Programmer 01:20:49 hey kmc did i ever mention you should read those books by keith johnstone 01:20:54 i think so 01:21:01 _Impro_ and also _Impro For Storytellers_ 01:21:05 whereas with maths you have all these big legendary figures and are constantly comparing yourself to them 01:21:37 we have those in programming too, although the lists of people are often hilariously weird 01:21:43 it's like, whenever I venture out of my little bubble, I find myself endlessly asking questions of people trying to figure out a codebase or something 01:21:48 and I feel like I'm contributing nearly nothing at all 01:21:55 while they go and do their whole thing without constantly asking questions of everyone else 01:21:56 like on HN i saw Mark Zuckerberg and ESR in the same list as Ken Thompson and Donald Knuth 01:21:58 i think in programming it's probably not as... codified? and mythic 01:21:59 and they just figure it out 01:22:01 'heroes' 01:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: fair 01:22:16 kmc: *blink* 01:22:25 Phantom_Hoover: i constantly compare myself to conor mcbride, hth 01:22:31 also maths is probably even worse than programming as far as the "you will do your best work before the age of 30" 01:22:36 yep 01:22:36 which is scary 01:22:42 I,I i constantly compare myself to conor mcbride and find myself inferior 01:22:46 the comparisons go like this: am I as good as conor mcbride yet -> haha no -> welp 01:22:50 (That's because Conor McBride is the best.) 01:22:57 elliott: please express this as a flowchart 01:23:04 shachaf: you could say the comparison is... constant 01:23:08 because it always has the same result, see 01:23:31 elliott: is the joke that "constantly" means "all the time" and also "always has the same result (like a constant function)" and they're the same word 01:23:37 yes 01:23:38 i think that might be the joke but just clarifying 01:23:38 " I felt saying something stupid would be representative of my gender" this -feeling- 01:23:39 btw i too have these insecurities 01:24:08 for me it's largely about the fact that I can make all these cute little toy demos of whatever, but I'm less sure that I can work productively on something big and important 01:24:10 (also when playing games: oh gosh you can't be bad at this game fiora or else you're going to uphold stereotypes!!!!! no brain shut up shut up shut up shut up oops I died) 01:24:52 Fiora: i'm p. bad at asking questions about things and imo asking questions should be encouraged 01:25:17 wat 01:25:23 oh 01:25:36 like I'm reasonably sure that I know more technical stuff than the average web startup person but I think/worry that the average web startup person is better at Getting Shit Done and, like, shipping working code 01:25:59 yeah but like... I only ask them because I literally have no idea what to do next and I'm lost and don't get things 01:26:07 and the alternative is sitting there doing nothing until my boss asks what I'm doing 01:26:11 kmc: half of your blog posts involve python so i can assure you you are not as uselessly perfectionist as me 01:26:17 also because asking questions over skype is easier than in person 01:26:19 all your blog posts are in @ 01:26:38 kmc: i compromise to haskell on a good day 01:26:38 Fiora: That's OK? 01:26:49 Fiora: Understanding a big codebase properly always takes time as far as I know. 01:27:22 yeah but like I feel like it never gets any better, and everyone else figures it out 01:27:51 you're wrong hth 01:28:02 ... I guess... 01:28:10 The other half of this syndrome thing is assuming that other people have things figured out. 01:28:41 shachaf: do you remember being a kid and thinking that adults know what they're doing 01:28:57 kmc: and now i'm old and i know what i'm doing!!!!!!! 01:29:01 yeah sure 01:30:31 did i link that terrifying ronson article that demonstrates that the cia have no idea what they're doing 01:32:20 imo finding out that particular people who you thought you knew what they were doing have no idea what they're doing is a p. good experience 01:33:32 sorry, I really shouldn't dump all this here like this anyways 01:33:55 it's not like you're swamping anything very worthwhile 01:33:59 isn't that what it's for 01:34:13 (it's traditional to get drunk first i think but not obligatory) 01:34:16 "yeah let's get back to talking about brainfuck" 01:34:23 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:41 hmm 01:34:50 anyway i wanted to say: I probably have a skewed perspective on this since i'm literally mentally unsound and my thinking is quite often demonstratably out of tune with reality 01:34:52 Sgeo_ said he was making a brainfuck equivalent in @tell 01:34:53 and that's that 01:35:13 Bike: that is because you are a bicycle 01:35:14 I don't know if I'm mentally unsound, really 01:35:24 yeah i don't mean that as pertaining to you 01:35:24 they were not meant to function in human society 01:35:32 Phantom_Hoover, >.> 01:35:39 a high powered mutant of some kind never intended for mass production 01:35:44 I just mean I've never really checked 01:35:48 elliott: fuck you man i'll do whatever i fucking well please *runs you over w/ my tires* 01:35:51 though I know I'm probably an anxious autistic wreck so 01:35:51 Technically it's equivalent to a subset of BF 01:35:59 Bike: you're not, like... a car 01:35:59 Fiora: i didn't mean to imply you were insane sorry 01:36:02 bicycle wheels are not scary 01:36:03 ??? 01:36:06 you didn't at all 01:36:14 elliott: yeah it's... not that effective... but bike power 01:36:16 Fiora: ok cool 01:36:20 you are fine gosh 01:36:32 i'm confused 01:37:14 oerjan knows everything <-- * swat -----### 01:37:26 Phantom_Hoover: stop that 01:37:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:38:07 ok i'm not confused 01:38:36 good 01:43:00 am i mentally unsound y/n 01:43:06 y 01:43:18 Fiora: Anxious autistic wreck? That's fun times! 01:44:04 i have a secret weapon against being unhappy which is that i tend to be optimistic about things all the time 01:44:25 have you noticed that everything is terrible and nothing good is happening though 01:44:31 i tend to notice that part 01:44:39 no 01:44:52 from my perspective lots of good things are happening hth 01:44:59 also lots of terrible things 01:45:06 but oh well 01:45:14 even when everything is terrible i'm still optimistic 01:45:23 does that make me mentally unsound............. 01:45:52 yes but in a metastable way 01:46:31 whoah 01:46:39 ? 01:46:41 oerjan's metaturing quote isn't in the quotes? 01:46:46 `pastlog metaturing 01:47:17 No output. 01:47:27 :O 01:47:32 maybe i just imagined the quote 01:47:33 `pastlog meta-turing 01:47:42 2011-07-14.txt:07:43:47: meta-turing-complete, too! 01:48:01 `pastelog meta-turing 01:48:05 blowing my mind 01:48:17 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17625 01:48:55 it's not there either... 01:48:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:49:13 maybe i just came up with the pun myself and i was so disgusted with myself i projected its creation onto oerjan 01:49:15 `pastlogs meta.*turing 01:49:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 01:49:22 `pastelogs meta.*turing 01:49:22 what if it was actually Metang 01:49:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11165 01:49:42 "So, how 'bout them Turing machines, eh? Never know when they're gonna stop." 01:50:04 is that from a sitcom about computer scientists 01:50:11 sort of 01:50:43 in that it's from my life 01:50:47 oh, i also had a horrible experience today 01:50:56 `quote turing 01:50:58 70) I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love \ 201) ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid \ 362) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. \ 363) oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJA 01:51:01 kmc: often you do know 01:51:26 i was in the pub with a postgrad and someone doing some sort of research work and they both said they loved the big bang theory 01:51:39 :( 01:51:45 did you get in a bar fight 01:51:58 Bike: is that something to do with lawyers 01:51:59 i hear it got better or something 01:52:10 hm i think they call it a lawsuit 01:52:13 Is mayonnaise an instrument? 01:52:21 what 01:52:21 yes 01:52:26 he's quoting 01:52:34 Phantom_Hoover, my gf loves The Big Bang Theory 01:52:45 is she the one that did that stupid thing 01:53:01 err? 01:53:09 (i can't tell because i think all i know about the women in your life is from anecdotes of them being stupid) 01:53:12 Is _The Big Bang Theory_ as bad as it sounds by reading about it on IRC? 01:53:15 i'm the one that did that stupid thing 01:53:18 shachaf: it's pretty bad 01:53:18 ergo i am sgeo's gf 01:53:19 shachaf, worse 01:53:23 Phantom_Hoover: it was with a space hth 01:53:31 kmc, what did they add actual characters to it or something 01:53:45 i watched a fair amount of the show and laughed and then one day I realized I hated myself for it and was wasting my life 01:53:56 hey kmc you should read that book hth 01:54:06 maybe you can read my copy when you come to sf 01:54:09 say what you will about Chuck Lorre but he is pretty good at his job 01:54:13 shachaf, have you ever read anything by banks btw 01:54:13 hey shachaf you should read the view from the left hth 01:54:20 kmc, so, finding something enjoyable is wasting your life? 01:54:22 Phantom_Hoover: Nope. 01:54:32 read some banks you fuck 01:54:34 Sgeo_: no 01:54:54 help 01:54:54 Sgeo_, yes e.g. if that thing is masturbating or something 01:54:58 how do i get an email address 01:55:14 you need to ask the government or something 01:55:27 Electronic mail? That sounds dangerous. 01:55:59 `pastelogs shachaf.*sounds dangerous 01:56:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3017 01:56:32 i probably shouldn't actually make claims about wasting one's life 01:56:33 apparently ehird@gmail.com is too short to get 01:56:33 maybe i should quit saying that 01:56:37 i bet you used to be able to get ones that short 01:56:45 Nope. 01:56:52 let me restrict my claim to the idea that there is plenty of pop culture media that doesn't make me hate myself and I should watch that instead 01:56:53 I tried signing up for sgeo@gmail.com, it was too short 01:56:53 are you sure 01:56:55 i got a gmail in 2004 01:56:59 So did I. 01:57:00 i bet it was allowed then 01:57:02 darn 01:57:03 It was 6 characters. 01:57:05 which one did you try to get 01:57:07 was it shachaf@ 01:57:07 > length "shachaf" 01:57:10 7 01:57:17 I remember people were complaining. 01:57:19 sgeoster@gmail.com worked fine 01:57:33 i think i own elliott.hird@gmail.com from roughly five billion years ago 01:57:36 maybe i could repurpose that 01:57:38 but it's kind of long and ugh 01:57:48 are you signing up for EVE Online 01:57:54 let's say yes 01:58:02 How about penguin.of.the.gods 01:58:05 that's p. short 01:58:32 does elliott need a serious email address or something 01:58:39 Gmail is different. Here's what you need to know. 01:58:43 5/8/04 01:58:54 (that date is in americanese btw) 01:59:12 Phantom_Hoover: how about phantomhoover@gmail.com 01:59:15 serious enough?? 01:59:17 remember how it was announced on mar 31 01:59:25 and no one believed that you would actually get 1gb 01:59:54 haha that was awesome 02:00:10 guys i was 8 when gmail launched 02:00:10 fyi 02:00:20 ...apparently "is mayonnaise an instrument" comes from Spongebob 02:00:21 yeah well you learned haskell when you like negative three 02:00:28 11 actually 02:00:31 I was just taking it off the tags of a reddit blogpost 02:00:40 elliott and I joined #haskell within a week of each other. 02:01:17 and what a week it was 02:02:30 elliott: how about: elliott.t.hird 02:02:41 elliott the third 02:02:42 elliott.third 02:02:45 is your middle name "t" 02:02:49 i dont have a middle name 02:02:52 elliott.t.third 02:03:00 hey are google apps things still awful 02:03:02 outdo elliottt at his own game 02:03:03 elliott: OVERRULED 02:03:06 how do you not have a middle name 02:03:07 like do they still get old versions of everything 02:03:18 I don't have a middle name! 02:03:24 Middle names are the devil. 02:03:26 also is there any email service that doesn't give my emails to the NSA 02:03:29 you're from foreignland! 02:03:29 yeah but you're likwe welsh shachaf 02:03:34 or do i have to run qmail if i want e.g. basic privacy 02:03:35 doesn't count 02:03:53 elliott: you don't get basic privacy sorry 02:04:16 it's advanced privacy or no privacy 02:04:30 elliott: how about sargetron@gmail.com 02:04:38 what's qmail do to be secure 02:04:46 because it's not like the NSA's even trying to read content 02:04:52 Looks like it's taken. 02:05:08 oh man wikipedia has Qmail#Controversy 02:05:10 i'm pumped for this. 02:05:23 Bike: it's djb 02:05:36 i just picked qmail out of a hat btw 02:05:43 twist: the hat only had qmail in it 02:05:53 well i mean i don't know what djb's doing 02:06:00 the question is where did you pull the hat out of...... 02:06:10 Bike: he's... existing 02:06:38 lol someone's ddosing github apparently 02:07:03 https://status.github.com/ 02:07:11 but why 02:07:36 who the hell knows 02:07:38 To Be A Douche 02:08:56 zomg stat us dot github dot com 02:09:03 you're not even a file 02:09:06 how can i stat you 02:09:17 httpsfs hth 02:10:32 Sgeo_: I think there's a lot more to enjoying comedy than just whether you are laughing in the moment 02:10:39 ==kmc 02:10:55 kmc, hmm.. such as? 02:11:12 it's like saying that food is enjoyable if it makes you not hungry anymore 02:11:33 that reminds me of the most depressing thing i've heard in the last week 02:11:38 laughter is a basic automatic response and that's why the cheap tricks of the mainstream sitcom are so effective 02:11:44 I think people tend to "enjoy" bad comedy as long as they're laughing, though. Much more than bad instances of other, uh, genres. 02:11:45 Bike: way to sell your next statement 02:11:53 Most comedy is bad. 02:12:00 Sgeo_: whether it's clever, whether it makes me think, whether I think about it later and quote it to friends and such 02:12:01 well i don't really need to actually say the thing 02:12:03 kmc: Also you should read what _Impro_ says about comedy! 02:12:30 Also about teaching, and status/interaction, and creativity/spontaneity, and storytelling, and other things. 02:12:47 cool 02:13:56 i don't mean to imply that 'good' comedy must be complicated and highbrow 02:14:14 or that laughter isn't necessary -- just that it's not sufficient 02:14:52 the latest season of Community had a lot of attempts at fancy cleverness that just... weren't funny 02:14:54 Sure. 02:15:12 but now they are bringing back the original creater / showrunner, who they fired after season 3 02:15:28 omg they are? 02:15:30 which is roughly unprecedented in the history of television 02:15:40 best news ever 02:15:41 yes http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/arts/television/dan-harmon-will-return-to-nbcs-community.html?_r=0 02:16:00 hey kmc why do i still look at news.ycombinator.com 02:16:10 don't hth 02:16:14 b/c you are mentally unsound 02:16:30 hm good points, both of you 02:16:32 now we will see whether the 4th season drop in quality was really caused by his departure 02:16:39 what's a good thing to look at 02:16:46 although I think people wouldn't have been nearly as harsh if they hadn't known about that 02:16:49 shachaf: twitter 02:17:08 Hmm. 02:17:25 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:17:28 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:17:33 03:11:12 it's like saying that food is enjoyable if it makes you not hungry anymore 02:17:42 kmc: i hope you realise how totally ineffective this argument is to sgeo... 02:17:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:17:47 fuc k 02:17:48 kmc's analogy is suspect 02:17:54 there were definitely huge differences in quality in the first 3 seasons as well 02:17:54 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:17:57 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:17:57 elliott: heh 02:18:08 Maybe it's more like saying that food is enjoyable if it's incredibly sweet or something. 02:18:17 Well, that's not really any good an analogy. 02:18:28 random thought: i'd like the average math paper a lot more if whenever they constructed some definition they'd include a relatively simple thing or two that isn't in the definition 02:18:32 there i said a thing. 02:18:49 you mean an example of what doesn't satisfy the axioms? 02:18:51 recently i saw a link to https://lobste.rs, i don't know if it is better or worse than HN/proggit 02:18:58 elliott: omg me too 02:19:03 maybe https://lobste.rs/s/bkeYe9/about_lobsters is a more useful link 02:19:06 kmc: we'r cool 02:19:16 kmc: yeah. in this case i'm wondering if lambert fits as an elementary function or not. 02:19:23 maybe i'm just: bad at math 02:19:31 Bike: aren't we all :'( 02:19:39 well at least i am 02:19:42 am i? 02:19:52 I mean i have the definition "I should be able to derive it right" 02:19:53 i don't even know 02:20:40 proving a function to be non-elementary sounds... hard 02:20:41 elliott: interesting 02:20:46 yeah there's that too 02:20:59 it seems like it does nothing to combat the fundamental issue of it will be shitty in a few years 02:21:09 i guess proving something doesn't fit a definition is probably harder than proving it does 02:21:14 if there's no obvious anti-definition anyway 02:21:14 disappointed that they don't say anything about how they will prevent pervasive sexism and other HN social problems 02:21:20 technical solutions yaaaaay 02:21:28 let alone making up your own not-defined-thingie 02:21:28 probably they don't care 02:21:43 "The Lambert W relation cannot be expressed in terms of elementary functions. " well, ok, wikipedia to the rescue i guess. 02:22:08 it could well be that there's just no illuminating proof of that though 02:22:15 i like how you have to express the derivatives and antiderivatives of this thing in terms of itself though 02:22:33 Phantom_Hoover: well it's also sort of the point of the paper i'm reading (showing erf isn't elementary) sooooo maybe i should just keep reading. 02:22:41 "elementary functions" is kind of arbitrary. :-( 02:22:57 oh, the paper has its own rigid definition of course. 02:23:42 kmc: imo start kmc news 02:23:46 kmc: the front page of that site looks... almost exactly the same as HN's o_O 02:23:48 like, the same stories 02:23:49 kmc: where you email me a bunch of links every week 02:23:55 and maybe other people too 02:24:09 elliott: it's called https://twitter.com/miuaf hth 02:24:30 https://lobste.rs/t/haskell clearly terrible 02:24:46 clever and informative 02:25:01 what's on hn these days anyway (thanks fiora for letting me check this thing instead of hn to learn this) 02:25:11 Allism. 02:25:12 shit 02:25:25 Allistic feces. 02:25:27 7 Agile Node.js Startup Tricks That Prove Men Are Superior 02:25:28 Bike: what are you checking/learning 02:25:33 lobsters 02:25:36 I think right now it's like 90% discussions about PRISM? 02:25:39 kmc: 5 Mains That Aren't Usually Functions 02:25:43 and 10% about apple or something 02:25:47 1. mains power 02:25:52 2. US state Maine 02:25:57 did apple do something 02:26:01 WWDC, I think? 02:26:01 released some products 02:26:04 can anyone helps me think of 3 more 02:26:05 naturally it's the CNN front page story 02:26:11 elliott: haskell main!!!!!!!! 02:26:13 Bike: they gave up on cats 02:26:18 no! 02:26:18 kmc: ok that can be number 5 02:26:23 is it just me or like 02:26:25 what's 3 and 4 02:26:32 whenever I see WWDC, I think "what would jesus do" but like with the different last two words 02:26:33 Manes 02:26:36 of lions and stuff 02:26:37 me too Fiora 02:26:39 Fiora: yes me too 02:26:43 what would jobs do 02:26:49 Bike: ok great 02:26:50 1. mains power 02:26:51 Everyone knows the new iPhone Pi is the most important thing since the cure for cancer. 02:26:53 2. US state Maine 02:26:56 3. manes 02:26:57 4. ??? 02:27:00 5. haskell main 02:27:05 we just need one more and we can post it to cracked 02:27:09 What Would Do Cook 02:27:11 Mein Gott 02:27:17 great 02:27:25 no 02:27:26 mayans 02:27:35 that's good too 02:27:36 oh ph's is better and even worse a mispronounciantion 02:27:41 wow awesome spelling 02:28:07 what about power mains 02:28:13 03:26:50 1. mains power 02:28:16 oh 02:28:23 "Mozilla, Reddit, 4Chan join coalition of 86 groups asking Congress to end NSA surveillance" 02:28:28 well if 4chan asked for it... 02:28:29 lol 02:28:33 haha 02:28:37 * Fiora goes back to playing more class of heroes 02:28:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:47 Class of what 02:28:53 set of heroes 02:28:58 proper class of heroes 02:29:02 set of all heroes that do not contain themselves 02:29:03 Her 02:29:08 Category of small heroes. 02:29:09 Yuusha no kurasu 02:29:09 "Her?" 02:29:18 [[ 02:29:19 Makes me pleased to use Firefox over Chrome. 02:29:19 Google = makes money from data collection and supports PRISM. 02:29:19 Mozilla = open source foundation supporting Congress ending PRISM. 02:29:19 We should all support companies and products which are against PRISM. 02:29:22 ]] 02:29:27 haha welp 02:29:30 why am i reading the comments on this article 02:29:38 kmc: the category of Heroes 02:29:38 i wonder if they know where mozilla's money comes from 02:29:45 elliott: Because you are self-injurious. 02:29:48 Probably gnomes 02:29:52 it's still better but.... 02:30:10 kmc: it's open source they don't need money 02:30:27 So, have a regex: /e([ck]+s*[sc]|[ck]*xs*c?)ers*[sc]i[sz]+e/ 02:30:29 profit-free organization 02:30:30 their only source of outcome is paying kmc to hack on rust 02:30:34 kmc: is there a good email client 02:30:41 elliott: no hth 02:30:43 I wonder how many words satisfying that regex have ever been used in an honest attempt to spell the word "exercise". 02:30:47 elliott: Mail.app hth 02:31:20 tswett: there's infinite possible strings and people have only used a finite set of them, so obviously it's neglible. 02:31:39 So the answer is "finitely many". 02:32:14 elliott: My experience suggests there is exactly one. 02:32:20 It is named netcat. 02:32:33 HELO 02:32:35 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:33:02 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:33:28 that does not sound good 02:33:49 HELO THIS IS DOG 02:33:50 oh, it's just a PSP dungeon crawler game thing <.< 02:34:08 PSP: a kind of drugz?? 02:34:27 -!- Bike__ has joined. 02:34:36 radio one anti nazi mix 02:34:41 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:34:43 -!- Bike__ has changed nick to Bike. 02:35:08 what 02:35:18 mars needs women 02:35:46 250 EHLO DOG THIS IS SMTP 02:35:51 it's an electronic device ._. 02:37:07 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:39:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:39:22 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:39:22 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:39:30 elliott: main street hth 02:39:37 -!- Bike has joined. 02:39:41 oerjan: good one 02:39:45 not as good as mayans 02:39:49 Bike: your connection... 02:39:58 yes 02:42:24 I love the term "controlled flight into terrain". 02:42:56 yes 02:43:04 it's bad times 02:43:13 elliott: mayonnaise hth 02:43:18 does that mean what it sounds like 02:43:31 A rather low-key term for a rather undesirable event. 02:43:50 Main unter Frankfurt 02:44:22 Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) describes an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, water, or an obstacle. 02:44:29 i was thinking it might be only for intentional cases 02:44:59 According to this paper, h such that h(z)⁵cos(log(z)) + h(z)³tan(exp(z) + sin⁻¹(z)) + 7 = 0 is an elementary function in some domains. That's pretty cool. 02:46:55 6. domain 02:47:11 oh damn, you're right. 02:47:26 elliott: ↑!! 02:47:34 mundane domain 02:47:49 7. maintainer 02:47:58 8. mainframe 02:48:11 9. remain 02:48:29 10. mainstream 02:48:31 "thx grep" 02:48:54 Bike: what does "in some domains" mean here? 02:50:12 oh, just local soltions to that 02:50:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic help 02:55:14 That's an interesting word: "castrophony" 02:55:50 I assume it's a blend of "catastrophe" and "cacophony". 03:04:37 You should ask zzo about linear logic. 03:05:51 zzo: hey, would you mind helping me with linear logic once you get back? It seems like there ought to be some good metaphor for it. 03:06:16 kmc: You know the thing where you apt-get install a program and then it gets marked as automatically installed without asking and you get annoyed? 03:07:47 tswett, Freefall 03:09:19 no i don't 03:12:14 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:14:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:18:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:18:11 this is getting annoying :( 03:18:29 shachaf: Huh. Never happened to me. 03:21:42 i am wondering if this is the same kind of disconnection which i used to have on my old laptop, months back (but haven't had in a while) or if this is something win8 is causing... 03:22:21 one thing i note is that irssi is _not_ kept alive on the other side this time. oh well. 03:23:28 in other news, does anyone know if there is any way in IE 10 to add minor search alternatives like esolang or wiktionary, or if you really only can add things that are in microsoft's gallery 03:24:26 i recall IE 8 _tried_ to send you to the gallery but had a way to get to the suggestions on the current website. now i don't see that anywhere. 03:25:14 kmc: when i misspeak like that sometimes i feel like a complete idiot and how could i possibly have said that thing and then i apologize a lot and so on to make sure everyone knows i'm fully aware how wrong i was 03:25:27 * oerjan managed to add wikipedia but had to change gallery to avoid getting just the norwegian one 03:25:28 i don't know if you're doing that but from the outside it probably seems much more minor than from the inside 03:25:32 or maybe not. i don't really know 03:26:02 yeah 03:26:04 it's all right though 03:27:18 hey this "source code" film is actually really good 03:27:20 other things people do (but i don't so much?): attack the thing they just said, repeatedly mention how idiotic it would be to think it 03:27:48 and then people in the audience get upset because they were thinking it 03:29:09 source code was pretty cool 03:36:01 oerjan: btw i suggest switching from win8 hth 03:36:20 i don't know what kmc is apologising for, help 03:36:24 i don't even see an apology 03:36:55 win8 makes no sense to me 03:39:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:39:58 shachaf does this thing where he talks in one channel about happenings in another channel without giving any context 03:40:01 hth 03:41:05 is this ##crypto again 03:44:02 Yes. 03:45:49 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:46:54 elliott: not me 03:47:40 How do I ask irssi who has the most channels in common with me? 03:48:36 The most I can find is 10. 03:48:49 how do i see what channels someone is in? 03:49:16 kmc: let me introduce you to whois hth 03:49:23 /whois will tell you only the channels they have in common with you (unless they disable that, like ski) 03:49:42 But irssi keeps track of who's in what channel. 03:49:50 copumpkin: you should make agda's universe polymorphism not awful, thanks 03:50:11 what about existence polymorphism 03:50:18 or would that be existence monomorphism 03:52:18 wow ski is in a lot of "p. cool" channels 03:54:06 elliott: i whois'd you, did you see 03:54:57 kmc: no. im blind 03:56:24 kmc: (were you joking or) 03:57:16 i don't know 03:57:21 can you see when someone whois's you 03:57:31 shachaf is trying to confuse me with bogus CTCPs 03:57:37 i see through his knavish tricks 03:57:46 whois asks the server a question. ctcp is a message to the person 03:57:51 kmc: you can't 03:57:56 /whois nsa 03:57:57 HTH 03:58:42 no such agency 03:58:46 kmc isn't even responding to my ctcps 03:58:49 kind of rude 03:59:34 hi i am a bot 03:59:42 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:59:59 I thought that was in response to me CTCPing shachaf for a second 04:02:10 If there was a notice of some sort, I should have noticed 04:04:14 elliott: hth 04:04:49 copumpkin: what did you do 04:04:56 nothing, hth 04:05:16 copumpkin: i think you will find it's still awful. tdh 04:05:27 (turducken hell) 04:05:27 tdn'th 04:05:37 elliott: how would you improve it? 04:05:45 hth 04:06:09 copumpkin: well when i use coq i don't think about universes at all and then i complete a definition and it gives me a universe consistency error and i have to start over 04:06:19 copumpkin: and i consider this preferable to having to think about universes every five seconds but not having problems in the end 04:20:04 I'm not a fan of magic, but I also hate that it pollutes my type sigs 04:20:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:21:24 well, at least Coq's magic is just fairly simple constraint solving 04:23:05 fiora, kmc: http://t.co/M0ClqSucMU this is kinda neat 04:23:59 Bike: subscribe me to the fiora-kmc list please (i like regehr.org too) (why did you use a url shortener) 04:24:41 because i got it off twitter, i've never even heard of regehr and know shit-all about type-punning or programming 04:26:01 (elliott: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/959 this is kinda neat hth) 04:27:47 -!- augur has joined. 04:31:58 i don't understand the type pun rules re: unions 04:32:23 i thought unions were the designated ok way to view the same bytes with different types 04:33:29 wikipedia thinks so 04:33:40 an expert source 04:33:47 there should be a language whose spec is explicitly what's on wikipedia 04:37:24 i mostly thought it was interesting that it knew memcpy that well, i guess. 04:38:01 my friend had another point re: impostor syndrome, which is that there's a game equilibrium aspect 04:38:16 if everyone around you is saying how bad and dumb they are, you have to say it too or else you seem arrogant (to yourself and others) 04:38:36 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:22 at caltech there were a lot of conversations where everyone was kind of bragging about how dumb they are and how they were failing all their classes 04:39:33 interestingly i've heard this doesn't happen at MIT 04:42:03 that would handily explain why grad students are mostly fucking wrecks 04:42:51 that's just down to the wreckophilia Bike 04:43:17 wow it took me like four whole seconds to understand wtf you just said. 04:46:27 that is commom 04:46:34 common 04:51:52 Bike: how many words rhyme with bike 04:52:17 Six 04:52:32 list them 04:53:14 Trike, bike, [ethnic slur], psych, Mike, like 04:54:27 you missed at least one, sorry 04:54:42 That's the slur, hth. 04:54:55 no 04:54:58 it's a different slur! 04:57:27 ther'es only one slur 04:57:38 deep 05:07:21 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:13:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:46:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:54:52 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:55:03 `olist 893 05:55:04 olist 893: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 05:55:40 -!- shachaf has quit (Client Quit). 06:00:17 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:06 -!- shachaf has joined. 06:17:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:20:29 is there a list of which foolists are what 06:20:51 `listlist 06:20:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: listlist: not found 06:21:54 `run ls bin/*list* 06:21:56 bin/emptylist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/pbflistdeluxe \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 06:22:49 emptylist is empty. list is a list people of who've run list. makelist presumably makes a list. olist is Order of the Stick. pbflist is Perry Bible Fellowship. pbflistdeluxe is also perrybiblefellowship, but much better. slist is MS Pain Adventures. smlist is Super Mega Comics. 06:23:49 run cat bin/emptylist 06:23:54 `run cat bin/emptylist 06:23:56 echo -n "$(basename "$0"): "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 06:24:00 `run head -n1 bin/olist 06:24:01 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 06:24:35 `run sed -i 's/:/${@:+ }$@:/' bin/emptylist 06:24:39 No output. 06:24:40 `emptylist 06:24:41 emptylist: 06:24:42 `emptylist hi 06:24:44 emptylist hi: 06:26:37 Hmm, there should be a c.b.miuaf update list. 06:26:47 Last update was in Dec, though... 06:27:11 yes 06:27:14 i should make some more things 06:30:17 everyone is moving to ca 06:51:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:53:08 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:39 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 07:05:42 is that so 07:09:15 well arkeet just did 07:50:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:56:00 kmc: what would it take to get a unicode codepoint named after me 07:56:53 good life goal 07:57:35 trying to figure out what counts 07:57:51 i think it has to be named after me, not just coïncide with my name 07:58:08 does it count if it's named after something which is named after someone 08:05:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:10:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:15:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 08:22:12 i hate it when i'm worrying about something and then I forget what specifically and it just leaves this diffuse feeling of worry that I can't even pretend to attack rationally 08:30:14 does this happen to anyone else 08:30:37 I once got a feeling that I ought to be depressed 08:30:46 And then felt guilty for being happy 08:31:11 that sucks 08:32:16 the life of a button 08:47:11 buh 09:10:57 `run echo blah blah blah blah | zalgo 09:11:00 bͩ͠l̖͒a̷̛h̳͞ ͫ͘b̤͟l̶̷å̛h̉͝ ̦ͪb͔ͪl̨ͭa͇̝h̶͖ ͗͟b͔̕ḷ̕a͕͝h͙͘ 09:11:04 `run echo blah blah blah blah | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo 09:11:09 b̛̟̭̺̺͍̖͕ͯ̑͗̽̄ͩ͆͠l็̸̨̙̮̜̲̗̍͐̉̀͢͟ͅͅa̫̞̣̯̰̯̍̒̈ͯͫͤ̓̅̐͠h̟͇̰̣͒̉ͣ͗́̿ͣͫ͊ͥ̇̕ ̨̛̫̦̜̼͔̞̰̐̌͂ͫ͜͝͞b͉̪̻̫̤͕̒̃͆҉̤̬͓̘ͭ̕l̞̥̦͖̞̳̊̏ͯ͛̉̍̒͘͜͝a̵͎̱̜̭̩̤͙̿ͮ͒̍͊̐̉҉h̸̟͍͈̞͓͇̙̥̏́͒͟҉̖͝ ̴̩̹̙̙͖̺ͫ́͐́̎̂́͊̕bͣ̀̆̎͝ͅ҉͔̠ 09:11:11 tmux++ 09:12:31 `list | zalgo 09:12:34 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 09:12:40 `run list | zalgo 09:12:42 ȁ͍i̶͙s̟͚5̷̀2̭̱3̴̗ ̒̎a͖̚t̪ͩr͎̅i̙̚q̵̗ ͩͩB̰̑i̘̭k͌͂e̤̓ ͪ͜b̨͌o͕̦i̮̹l͎̔y͕ͬ ̺̃c͙̊u͎̍t́͏ṫ̼l̳̭é͙f̱̽ȋͯs̳͛h̄̈ ̜̋eͪ͘l͙̀l̯̂ï̍ŏ͌t̢̠t̨̬ ̥ͫfͦ͡g̭͇r̩̍ẹͬp̤̈ ̱ͨḞ̮ị̢o̧̓r̤̅a̪͙ ̉͠f̰̒u͍ͪn̂͋g͋̒o͏̜t̫͕ ̑͜Hͪ͘a̾͢c̝͌ḵ̅E̛͕gͪ̈́o͔͍ ̐̎ 09:12:51 In retrospect I should have done that in /msg 09:13:34 list? 09:13:38 oh right, list 09:13:39 @quote retrospect 09:13:39 monochrom says: in retrospect, it seems lisp designers were more interested in list processing than functional programming 09:18:51 -!- `0x00 has left. 09:21:22 shachaf, what's the convention for +1'ing something on libraries@ 09:23:16 I think you reply with the message "+1" or something weird like that. 09:23:18 I don't know. 09:23:37 `? atriq 09:23:39 atriq or two 09:24:21 if someone figured out a good solution to the problem that monad transformers are trying to solve, that would be the best thing 09:44:31 -!- nooga has joined. 09:56:30 -!- carado has joined. 10:08:17 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:24:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:26:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:29:40 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:29:48 -!- nooga has joined. 10:31:34 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:43:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:01 mnoqy: did you learn lens yet 11:03:39 `olist 11:03:41 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:04:00 #893 11:04:07 shachaf already `olist'd #893 11:04:55 shachaf: sorta? 11:05:06 mnoqy: do you understand profunctor lenslikes 11:05:22 im too tired to understand anything but probably? 11:05:24 i don't know the laws for them :'( do you know 11:05:35 i dont know their laws at least offhand 11:05:53 well i mean i want a compositionlike law 11:07:16 i remember reading what a profunctor is but then i forgot RIP 11:07:30 rip 11:07:35 actually i think shachaf even explained it to someone once? 11:07:41 ??????????????? 11:07:57 let me check 11:08:44 "as with most things" defn of profunctors depends on who you ask 11:08:55 um 11:09:00 you gotta ask a pro 11:09:02 obviously 11:09:30 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:09:38 A profunctor is simply a bifunctor that is contravariant in its first argument. 11:09:53 see thats the answer you get if you ask Taneb 11:09:58 but covariant in its second? 11:09:59 Taneb: are you a pro 11:10:10 shachaf, I have a hat 11:10:14 And some chocolate 11:10:18 Does that make me a pro 11:10:25 shachaf, oops i actually imagined this 11:10:26 RIP 11:10:34 The chocolate is in a cardboard box 11:10:40 The box is wearing the hat 11:12:35 ugh i feel like category theory but i'm being forced to do other dumb things 11:12:52 try not being forced to do other dumb things 11:12:57 ALT stick it to the man 11:13:12 ALT get someone to do stupid dumb things for you 11:13:16 ALT get someone to do category theory for you 11:14:12 ALT TWIST category theory is dumb things 11:14:21 good twist 11:14:37 shachaf, apparently i was thinking of you explaining CoYoneda to bike in april 11:16:36 what does coyoneda have to do with profunctors 11:16:51 mnoqy: was the twist actually good or did you mean bad twist when you said good twist 11:17:02 thatd be a good twist wouldnt it 11:17:02 because that would be a twist of its own(meta twist?) 11:17:17 i never meta twist i didn't eat 11:19:13 i wish i was as good as mnoqy at things 11:19:21 me too 11:19:23 mnoqy: how can i become as good as you (or better) 11:19:33 shachaf/mnoqy otp 11:19:47 `? otp 11:19:47 ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 11:19:48 otp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 11:20:24 `run echo "only ten pounds" | wisdom/otp 11:20:26 Taneb.... 11:20:26 bash: wisdom/otp: No such file or directory 11:20:47 no worries, no worries 11:20:50 Taneb... 11:20:51 `pastelogs "Taneb..." 11:21:03 `run type -a sponge 11:21:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29240 11:21:06 bash: line 0: type: sponge: not found 11:21:29 `run echo 'cat > wisdom/otp' > wisdom/otp; chmod +x wisdom/otp 11:21:31 `run pastelogs "Taneb..." 11:21:33 No output. 11:21:34 `run echo "only ten pounds" | wisdom/otp 11:21:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31150 11:21:50 No output. 11:21:55 `? otp 11:21:56 ...bots in AW will no longer be free 11:21:57 only ten pounds 11:22:02 bah 11:22:07 Taneb, lern to regex 11:22:49 Sgeo_, for god's sake why do you still care 11:25:16 Sgeo_: Phantom_Hoover makes a very good point. 11:33:15 hey mnoqy 11:33:17 draw me a sheep 11:34:19 🐑 11:34:59 `run pastelogs "Taneb\.\.\." 11:35:09 `run pastelogs "Taneb\\.\\.\\." 11:35:21 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16794 11:35:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3067 11:36:27 `run pastelogs "Sgeo_*\\.\\.\\." 11:36:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17444 11:37:16 2013-04-11.txt:01:05:11: well yes hes picky about trivialities that much is obvious. those ui concerns are real but the underlying issue is that he --sgeo.............................................. 11:37:17 <- best one imo 11:41:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:58:40 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:10:38 Haha! 12:10:53 I forgot I had contributed to that kickstarter 12:11:30 Girl Genius and the Rats of Mechanicsburg 12:13:11 hmm 12:13:14 is girl genius bad 12:16:16 yes :( (note: i have only limited experience with it) 12:16:57 The comic has won five WCCA awards including 2008 Outstanding Comic, and been nominated for a Hugo Award for Best Professional Artist, an Eagle Award and twice for an Eisner Award; in 2009, 2010, and 2011 it won the Hugo Award for Best Graphic Story. 12:17:06 UM it sounds like THESE PEOPLE disagree with you 12:17:25 nb idk anything about this comic but its probably really bad and awful 12:18:41 wow this art style is amazing. i am digging these faces. 12:23:05 Phantom_Hoover, I enjoy it 12:23:46 nooodl: whats your experience with it...youve gotta compete with an "enjoying it" 12:24:02 i looked at the art 12:24:04 + the name 12:25:42 the name is lame and the subtitle is lame too but i cant belive you dont dig the art 12:26:15 i mean just look at this [latest comic] http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ggmain/strips/ggmain20130612.jpg 12:28:09 what is it with the comic strip style where you 12:28:18 bold words in almost every sentence 12:28:21 why do they do it 12:28:32 good question 12:28:57 you know what i'm talking about right 12:29:09 yes 12:29:28 i always thought that was there to like 12:29:30 mark the intonation 12:30:04 but would you really stress that "NEED"? it's ridic. 12:30:11 so it's probably something else... 12:30:59 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoldInflation 12:42:46 -!- aloril_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:39 -!- aloril has joined. 12:48:57 -!- ASMK568 has joined. 12:48:58 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 12:48:58 -!- ASMK568 has left. 12:49:08 yes 12:58:41 -!- ASMK879 has joined. 12:58:42 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 12:58:42 -!- ASMK879 has left. 12:58:48 yes 12:59:28 no 12:59:43 thatd be rude taking peoples' friends 13:08:36 -!- ASMK574 has joined. 13:08:36 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 13:08:36 -!- ASMK574 has left. 13:08:45 yes 13:09:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:11:16 Hmm 13:11:25 What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:11:40 bad 13:12:10 i guess the question is: you need to slap some sort of tesselation down, so what will it be 13:12:13 octagons????????????????????? 13:12:24 I was thinking pentagons 13:12:55 hexhams? 13:13:01 hm whats the optimal--what--polygon 13:13:15 heptagons 13:13:20 mnoqy: triangles are the optimal polygone hth 13:13:28 i've seen heptagons done before, i think 13:13:30 i mean in general. not talkking about tesselation 13:13:34 just the best polygon 13:13:36 triangles 13:13:44 (i think "hyperrogue" does heptagons) 13:13:58 ((its a roguelike in hyperbolic plane, if u're uncultured)) 13:14:24 mnoqy: am i uncultured 13:14:29 i didn't know that but now i know it 13:15:50 p. sure everyone here is cultured now, as of that line 13:16:11 what if you were so uncultured to start with 13:16:15 you didn't even know how to read 13:17:05 -!- ASMK324 has joined. 13:17:05 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 13:17:06 -!- ASMK324 has left. 13:17:10 ~𝐩𝐥𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐰𝐢𝐬𝐭~ 13:17:11 :D 13:19:54 * itsy goes to join iBooter... 13:20:09 (i think "hyperrogue" does heptagons) 13:20:23 no it uses heptagons and hexagons iirc 13:20:29 oh both??? lame 13:20:39 its been a while since ive looked at it 13:20:40 yeah, i dunno why 13:20:52 what kind of tesseleation is that 13:20:55 more like a messelation 13:21:04 What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:21:05 uh 13:21:07 weird 13:21:21 assuming you're using the 5-square tiling 13:21:43 fortunately befunge never uses diagonal adjacency afaik so that avoids some awkward problems 13:22:02 ...yeah there are definitely hexagons in here with the heptagons wtf 13:22:40 hmm 13:22:43 is it this tiling: What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:22:45 dammit 13:22:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uniform_tiling_73-t12.png 13:23:19 looks like it 13:24:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H2_tiling_24i-4.png ok 13:24:23 befunge on that tiling: bestfunge? 13:26:23 yiiiiikes 13:26:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H2chess_24ic.png the edges in this diagram are the set of straight lines for program execution 13:28:47 heh, i just realised all the white/black regions in that diagram are infinity-gons 13:29:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:38:40 man. what if: infinite-dimensional space, R^\infty, points are functions N -> R 13:38:52 i think we've tried that before 13:38:53 this probably already exists??? it's so boring 13:39:11 note that you're still only able to use a countable subspace 13:39:35 the obvious one is only allow finitely supported functions 13:40:04 countable subspace? 13:40:37 yeah 13:40:55 doesn't every total function N -> R define a point + aren't functions N -> R uncountable 13:41:13 ???? 13:41:15 yeah but you can only specify a countable number of those functions 13:41:22 almost all functions are uncomputable 13:41:43 oh that kinda "use" 13:41:44 yeah 13:41:44 oh by "define a point" you mean...yeah 13:42:21 (you mean, it'd be countable in the same way that the subset of R you can "use" is countable, right) 13:43:24 anyway the neat thing is you get points that are infinitely far from the origin, but are finite in all dimensions, like (1,1,1,1,...) 13:44:16 Q: what would the equation for a line be 13:44:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:44:56 a "line" in a vector spac is just a 1-dimensional subspace 13:45:04 heres an easy one 13:45:30 \{f : f(x) = 0 for all x > 0\} 13:45:34 oh man i was 13:45:35 typing that!! 13:45:55 also 13:45:55 wrt 13:45:57 nooodl, p + lv, where p and v are pretty much arbitrary vectors 13:46:05 06:43:24 anyway the neat thing is you get points that are infinitely far from the origin, but are finite in all dimensions, like (1,1,1,1,...) 13:46:14 not if you only allow finitely supported functions!!! 13:46:22 (imo a sane restriction) 13:46:34 imo insane + boring 13:46:56 Much like myself! 13:47:05 oh wow i just noticed i put \'s on my { and } 13:47:11 i almost wrote \forall too 13:47:17 to what have i come 13:47:20 also neat: there are non-finitely supported functions (btw thanks for teaching me this words) with a finite distance to the origin!! 13:47:41 like f(x) = 1 / sqrt(2^x) would have a norm of 2 13:47:53 um what norm are we using here 13:48:00 like uh | | thing 13:48:03 th e f hu uhh 13:48:08 distance to (0,0,0,0,...) 13:48:14 but which norm 13:48:33 (note: i'm dumb) which norms do i get to choose from 13:48:39 any norm you want 13:48:54 i calculated that using uh 13:49:18 |f| = \sqrt{ sum_{i=0}^\infty f(i)^2 } 13:49:18 i hear the "l2" norm is popular (smile) 13:49:38 "yes" 13:49:39 oh it'd have a norm of \sqrt 2 i guess 13:50:00 oh that's "euclidean norm" 13:50:01 wait 13:50:07 "l2 norm" 13:50:16 what's even the euclidean norm in infinite dimensions 13:50:24 "doesnt really exist sorry" 13:50:33 the closest thing to a sensible value i can think of for |(1,1,1,1,1,...)| is 1 13:50:57 for |(1,1,1,...)| it'd be infinite RIP 13:51:14 that probably makes this "not very euclidean" 13:51:31 as ph notes the l_\infty norm is "preferable" 13:51:56 but things still dont always have those norms 13:52:06 like the identity function wouldnt 13:52:07 so uh 13:52:15 how'd you calculate the l_\infty norm 13:52:20 idk 13:52:20 (i dont actually know of any norms for infinite dimensional spaces off hand) 13:52:35 but lim n^(1/n) = 1 13:52:42 nooodl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp_space 13:53:02 nooodl: its just the maximum of all the absolute values 13:53:09 oh, ofc., l_\infty is-- yep 13:53:19 i remember proving the groundwork for that in analysis 13:53:23 ooh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_space 13:53:45 i like how i invented this independently though!! 13:53:54 those are a thing yes 13:54:03 iv dealt with them like once 13:54:14 maybe twicE???? 13:54:17 who knows really 13:54:31 man i should Math more 13:54:55 something about you felt like category theorying 13:55:04 hmm yes 13:55:17 btw im going to be taking a category theory course in about 6 years 13:55:21 "isnt that great" 13:55:28 (university) 13:55:36 6 years? 13:55:41 why not sooner 13:55:51 alt. how do you know they offer cat theory (i dont know what university this is) 13:59:04 i don't think you do category theory in warwick until postgrad stuff but probably you can do it in 4th year 14:01:20 i guess it depends on the university as to how friendly they are about undergraduates taking graduate courses.........im just really used to it by now 14:04:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:05 http://i.imgur.com/qyMCRSJ.png 14:06:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:06:57 Categorietheorie 14:07:31 that's a "first year (master)" course which means i need a bachelor degree first which takes 3 years 14:07:50 so do they really not let you go out of sequence. laughs 14:07:53 and then of course there's one more year of "high school" before "university" even starts!! 14:08:14 :'[ 14:08:22 and i hear next year involves 14:08:32 integrals: but ONLY numerically 14:08:34 :-) 14:08:40 im weeping 14:08:44 and also circles and geometry and boring stuff 14:08:47 im weeping 14:08:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:09:27 integrals... but only numerically? 14:09:35 yeah 14:09:40 you mean you're not actually going to cover symbolic integration 14:09:43 nope 14:09:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:09:50 that's "university level" :') 14:09:57 wow 14:10:28 integration is for losers anyway though 14:10:48 last time i needed it was a probability course and i just used a computer algebra system to do all my integrals for me 14:11:08 i have done too many integrals this year 14:11:42 yeah i hate most of this stuff because 14:11:43 that was....a year ago.......and the last time i had needed them prior to that was..........gosh like 4 or 5 years ago 14:11:50 deriving functions manually is hell 14:12:06 deriving? OH you mean like calculus derivatives 14:12:15 and then the exam is no-calculator and you can't check it (yeah) and it's 14:13:11 heh heh (smirk) hm come to think of it i did some other "integral and derivatives stuff" last year but it was analysis so instead of doing computations it was analysis. 14:13:36 nooodl, wait, do they expect you to actually like... manually... numerically... integrate? 14:13:48 there are approximation techniques 14:13:51 :D 14:13:57 oh no the integration is gonna be done on a ti-84 14:14:12 hm and iv been seeing a bunch of "ends" recently which are notated like integrals 14:14:23 we have to know how to symbolically work out derivatives though 14:14:36 what's an "end" 14:14:41 derivatives are easy though 14:14:49 it's like a limit except instead of a cone you have a wedge 14:14:54 but square roots........ 14:14:59 the quotient rule is like the hardest thing you have to do 14:15:10 square roots are just 1/2sqrt(x) 14:15:10 also: but 2nd derivatives involving quotient rule ...................... 14:15:20 btw also good: 14:15:22 yes those are horrible 14:15:24 we didn't cover the chain rule 14:15:29 i 14:15:32 instead learning a bunch of extra formulae for 14:15:37 d/dx sqrt(f(x)) 14:15:39 :-))))) 14:15:55 nooodl: http://nlab.mathforge.org/nlab/show/end 14:16:38 so do ends end up being equivalent to integrals in some category 14:17:34 imo everyone should explain CT concepts as "in Set, it's this" 14:17:39 idk :[ idk what that would even mean 14:17:58 what are limits/colimits in Set even 14:18:22 (ps i don't know what CT (co-)limits are other than "they exist") 14:18:45 well see limits are actually equivalent to proper limits in... some category 14:19:21 limits are infima in preorder categories 14:19:28 likewise, colimits are suprema 14:19:38 whats goig on here 14:19:44 categories 14:19:45 hell if i know 14:19:48 fuk 14:22:07 nooodl: i dont know all the pedagogical tools for explaining most category theory things so all i can do is make bad jokes :( 14:22:24 this reminds me you haven't read my type theory joke 14:22:38 i bet its not as good as elliott's homotopy type theory joke 14:22:58 q: why do type theorists have trouble opening bags 14:23:09 a: they can't discern the bag from its zipper 14:23:15 :| 14:23:25 my homotopy type theory joke is fnatastic nooodl 14:23:26 have you heard it 14:23:28 no 14:23:31 01:34:11 joke: do you relate type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory, because you're pretty HoTT 14:23:42 good 14:24:29 what i want to know is, can you do all the stuff with ants and elastic bands and toruses in htt 14:24:55 Phantom_Hoover: there's work on doing homotopy theory in hott 14:25:11 that sounds incredibly funny 14:25:22 mnoqy: rate my joke please 14:25:35 nooodl: miserable 14:25:52 i'm offended 14:28:45 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:29:09 `relcome lambdabot 14:29:12 ​lambdabot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:30:43 :t absurd 14:30:43 Not in scope: `absurd' 14:30:47 :t _1 14:30:48 Not in scope: `_1' 14:30:53 > absurd 14:30:54 Not in scope: `absurd' 14:30:56 :( 14:31:59 > id 14:32:00 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 14:32:00 arising from a use ... 14:32:07 > id :: Show a => a -> a 14:32:08 <() -> ()> 14:32:09 :( 14:43:40 Taneb: can't have lens/void until hashable bug is fixed 14:58:46 Does lambdabot do the monomorphism restriction thing too? 14:59:21 elliott: What hashable bug? 15:01:32 https://github.com/tibbe/hashable/issues/69 15:02:12 Oh, I see 15:02:36 Don't want to do it yourself locally for now? 15:04:32 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:12:02 -!- Bike has joined. 15:19:08 problem I just solved for #esoteric to guess at: what's the standard UNIX command for determining the modification time of a file, in a format that can be piped into other programs? 15:19:38 rmdir? 15:19:48 no 15:19:51 -!- itsy has joined. 15:19:55 I tried to get ls to work for ages, but it doesn't 15:19:56 Am I close? 15:20:11 the options to output machine-readable formats are mutually exclusive with the options to output dates 15:20:16 date works for mtime, at least 15:20:23 although not for atime or ctime, I guess you're meant to use perl for those 15:23:00 Taneb: how would it be rmdir? 15:23:06 FreeFull: I'd rather not 15:33:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:33:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:42:09 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:44:37 -!- myname has joined. 16:05:05 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:06:45 -!- conehead has joined. 16:41:28 -!- gasoline has joined. 16:41:46 wow i got fucken kickbanned for opping in ##esoteric 16:42:04 ? 16:42:11 try it 16:42:15 `relcome back, gasoline 16:42:18 what's ##esoteric anyway 16:42:18 ​back,: gasoline: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:42:33 to me it was a typo 16:42:45 ais523: gasoline is a troll, btw 16:42:52 hmm 16:42:53 hi elliott 16:42:53 mnoqy: what was their other name again 16:42:58 (so I can pastelogs) 16:43:04 elliott: gosh its on the tip of my tongue 16:43:08 i;ll have to look it up 16:43:11 `pastelogs 16:43:12 and yeah, was going to ask "do you have evidence for that?" 16:43:22 ais523: well, the last thing they said last time was that they'd be back :) 16:43:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20011 16:43:38 you might as well pastelog the fucken answer too dude 16:43:50 elliott: newstalker 16:44:03 hmm 16:44:06 mnoqy: ah yes 16:44:08 `pastelogs newstalker 16:44:16 elliott: well he/she's making more sense now than before, at least 16:44:21 we should get a new news-ham called news-talker 16:44:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7432 16:44:23 your bot is lagging 16:44:31 ais523: sugg. reading ^ 16:44:38 who programmed that piece of crap 16:44:53 its fucken slooooow dude 16:44:54 :☺) 16:45:05 2013-06-02.txt:14:32:26: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +v newstalker 16:45:11 i'm parting so i don't have to read this shit 16:45:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 16:45:23 ais523: chanserv knew what had to be done 16:45:30 who's responsible for that? 16:45:38 chanserv 16:45:57 I mean, who told chanserv to 16:46:07 chanserv is one busy mofo 16:46:14 are you saying chanserv isn't allowed to do things by its own free will 16:46:21 no, it's allowed to, it just doesn't 16:46:38 what ?! 16:46:42 elliott: ? 16:46:48 what dude 16:46:51 hmm 16:46:58 can we get the banning part out of the way with 16:47:01 actually I think I know who did the voicing 16:47:03 this is always so tedious 16:47:15 elliott: well you know how I'm typically pretty slow to ban people 16:47:24 does this channel have a rule against offtopic discussion? 16:47:44 lol do you actually look at that pastelogs and just see "offtopic discussion" :DDD 16:47:48 this channel is so great 16:47:50 elliott: no, I was trying to troll you :) 16:47:55 elliott is the channel homosexual 16:48:06 OK, gasoline, why are you insulting people randomly? 16:48:14 scroll up dude 16:48:21 you fucken cheat 16:48:22 how about you op me so i can kickban repeat offenders like this without the boring ritual in front of it 16:48:26 * itsy looks in to see if anyone's talking about esolangs... 16:48:27 imo that'd be great and efficient 16:48:28 can't, I've got about 3 screenfuls of chanserv help messages 16:48:34 itsy: as if :) 16:48:52 if anyone is insulting its elliott and his "welcome" 16:48:53 elliott: well part of the reason you aren't an op is we're worried you'd be a bit too trigger-hapy 16:48:57 *trigger-happy 16:49:00 itsy: i hear there was a great "derp code" language recently 16:49:16 at this point I've already made my mind up to kick gasoline, though, but I'm waiting to see his/her reaction because I think it'll be amusing 16:49:23 ais523: it's true, i make sure to ban at least five people from #haskell every day 16:49:27 it's my quota... for blood 16:49:32 youre a subversive ais523 16:49:39 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 16:49:41 gasoline: btw mnoqy was the one who welcomed you 16:49:43 -!- ais523 has kicked gasoline that's a boring reaction :(. 16:50:36 elliott: odds on how long before he/she tries to rejoin? 16:50:42 IS there any interesting more recent esoteric language? 16:51:14 I'd love it if there were 16:51:28 something I was thinking about a while ago, discarded, and started thinking about again 16:51:44 is "can you get interesting computational complexity from the word-wrap algorithm used by every editor ever?" 16:51:48 I suspect the answer is no, though 16:54:10 ais523: if they're sad enough to come back two times they are probably fine waiting 16:54:21 this is why bans are good, so that someone who is not welcome in the channel can be prevented from disrupting it even when ops aren't around 16:54:42 yeah but pretty much any troll who knows what they're doing can bypass bans anyway 16:55:01 who needs bans with ever vigilant ops like #esoteric;s 16:55:13 does this person strike you as the kind of person who knows what they're doing 16:55:20 it seems to me like they are incredibly stupid 16:55:41 im sure thats what they want you to think 16:57:57 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b #esoteric!*@*. 16:58:01 err, hmm 16:58:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:58:27 RIP 16:58:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:58:38 elliott: well I tried to ban them and my IRC client segfaulted 16:58:47 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 16:58:51 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -b #esoteric!*@*. 16:58:54 they hecked you 16:58:55 they know... 16:59:08 ais523: that was a good ban 16:59:09 IMO reinstate it 16:59:16 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b *!*@5ED28E0D.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl. 16:59:23 elliott: it's meaningless 16:59:25 isn't it? 16:59:33 a channel can't send messages to itself, insufficient free will 16:59:35 ais523: well, if #esoteric joined #esoteric... 16:59:40 wow you're so rude 16:59:52 yikes he's dutch 17:00:22 anyway, Konversation's capacity for interesting responses to typos continues to amuse me 17:00:26 #esoteric is an invalid nickname, so, imo ban it 17:01:41 how many ops does #esoteric have? 17:02:03 6 17:02:18 are they all active? 17:02:21 although one of them is freenode-staff, one of them is never seen, and one of them turns up occasionally to troll 17:02:28 nice 17:02:41 leaving three who might reasonably ban a troll (me, fizze, and oerjan) 17:03:00 elliott: what happened last time lament was here? 17:03:09 i have weird opinions about irc moderation, but... 17:03:10 they turned up, unbanned a troll, and the troll turned up too and started trolling? 17:03:31 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 17:03:40 ais523: they unbanned dbelange and he joined 17:03:40 i frequent a ~40 user channel where literally every regular is an op and it's extremely convenient 17:03:46 ais523: lament knows dbelange from #math or someting 17:03:47 elliott: right 17:03:48 so presumably he invited him 17:04:00 `pastelogs 17:04:04 need to check what that ban was for 17:04:12 I remember it was warranted, but not why 17:04:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2521 17:04:26 ais523: dbelange is infamous as an IRC troll 17:04:27 apparently 17:04:52 oh wow, that's pretty trolly 17:04:53 * itsy wonders if anyones written a Quine in Mouse http://esolangs.org/wiki/Mouse 17:05:09 ais523: that's saying something coming from you. 17:05:20 itsy: if it's been around that long, probably 17:05:28 especially if it caught on enough to have a book written about it 17:06:00 admittedly, INTERCAL's had a book written about it (the newest manual; I spent a Christmas writing that) 17:06:08 but reverse-admittedly, INTERCAL also has a quine 17:07:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:09:06 -!- Bike has joined. 17:11:44 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:13:25 -!- itsy has joined. 17:13:55 -!- Sgeo|work has joined. 17:14:13 shouldn't you be working, Sgeo|work 17:15:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:15:20 Was told to relax a bit 17:16:00 ah... 17:16:57 In what universe is hpaste.org a proxy avoidance site? 17:17:28 hpaste.orgs a full disk site 17:17:41 something about exotic porn 17:19:23 ais523: the closest I got to a Mouse Quine: #f;34!'#f;34!'64!'$ f"#f;34!'#f;34!'64!'$ f"@ 17:19:58 The problem is ! in a string represents a newline :-( 17:26:20 Webchat keeps the tab saying Activity! even when there is no activity 17:26:54 maybe webchat isn't the best client 17:44:00 yo elliott you have a hott date with a book 17:44:33 ty 17:53:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:53:44 is he gone 17:54:05 yes 17:54:16 Is who gone? 17:54:21 yes 17:55:17 Oh 17:56:12 Also, ais523 is a form of version control? 17:56:26 Are there any classic Mac experts here? 17:56:48 Phantom_Hoover: I kicked him/her for being insufficiently amusing for us to permit a troll here, then my client segfaulted when I tried to ban him/her 17:57:05 them, ais 17:57:14 for fuck's sake, just say 'them' like a normal person 17:57:24 I do sometimes 17:57:26 em 17:57:41 I do that sometimes too, but more frequently just to Agorans 17:57:44 bla bla nonbinary exclusion bla 17:57:51 em is totally the normal thing to say if you assume everyone not in Agora is nonnormal 17:57:58 em is dumb 17:58:01 anyway apparently there are crypto startups i didn't know this 17:58:03 spivak pronouns are dumb 17:58:09 i have explained this before 17:58:30 e is the only dumb spivak pronoun but I still prefer it over ey because tradition 18:07:39 -!- Sgeo|work has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:22:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:25:31 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:57 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:39:26 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:42:36 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:43:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:54:46 -!- Sgeo|work has joined. 18:54:57 Is there supposed to be anything interesting about DL? 18:57:20 DL? 18:57:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/DL 18:59:27 Idea: Compression algorithm that is lossless iff some unsolved conjecture is true 18:59:27 no 18:59:38 the no was wrt dl 18:59:43 theres nothing interesting aboout this language 19:00:46 There's a conjecture that goes something like this, right?: Any number can be expressed as the sum of X Y 19:00:53 What are X and Y, which conjecture? I forgot 19:01:13 primes? Or something? 19:01:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach_conjecture 19:01:42 this one? 19:01:59 Yes 19:03:56 here's a picture of the Goldbach Conjecture as a program looking for counterexamples: https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/goldbach.gif 19:04:51 2d3 * 2d7 / 99d6 19:04:51 elliott: (3+3) * (7+4) / 347 => 66/347 => 0.1902 19:04:54 cute 19:05:19 tromp_: also cute 19:05:43 RLE for BF that can express any BF program stripped of comments iff Goldbach is true: {2;2+} means following character repeated 4 times, the two numbers must be primes, + means just add the two, - means add them then subtract one, multiple of a character outside {} not allowed... oh, need to allow for ++ somehow, hmm 19:05:56 Just thought of something productive I could be doing 19:06:06 it's a lambda calculus term that normalizes iff GC is false 19:10:10 -!- Sgeo|work has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:13:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:18:25 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:18:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 19:19:52 The following appear 5+ times in Pascal's Triangle: 120, 210, 1540, 7140, 11628, 24310 (all 6 times) & 3003 (8 times). Are there any others? 19:22:51 1 appears a LOT :) 19:25:00 61218182743304701891431482520 appears 6 or more times 19:32:51 you can take the kmc out of the #haskell but you can never take the #haskell out of the kmc 19:34:56 Aha, I only checked 32 bit numbers... 19:35:20 i checked google:( 19:38:02 kmc: what happened 19:38:37 twitter 19:38:57 did you tell someone "yes, haskell can do that" 19:39:53 no 19:41:01 I made some sequent calculus representation of Turing machines. It only uses the right side of the sequents. If combined with classical logic, the result is inconsistent, although I think it can be consistently combined with linear logic. 19:42:52 I don't have time right now to put it into the computer, but I will on the weekend, so that you can see. 19:42:59 it was a joke kmc 19:43:02 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:43:11 Do you know of any such things like this? 19:45:04 i would be curious to see that zzo38] 19:46:58 kmc: On weekend I will have time to put it into the computer, I hope. 19:46:58 Maybe when I do that, you can also tell me if you found a mistake in it. 19:47:03 ok 19:48:50 The Turing machine and its current state and tape are represented by a multiset of formulas on the right of the sequent, and it is provable if and only if it halts. 19:51:50 It doesn't have the rule of cut and of identity and of weakening and so on; it starts from nothing (this is needed for many kinds of non-classical logic, where such rules don't apply, you can't start with those!). 19:53:08 Could a esolang be made based on sequent calculus somehow? 19:54:49 kmc: looks like a good #haskell-style argument 19:55:37 did the person you were arguing with really switch to "i agree with you but other people don't?" 19:55:46 s/..$/"?/ 19:56:07 shachaf: 19:56:10 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:56:15 @let data Foo a = Bar | Quux a 19:56:15 .L.hs:123:6: 19:56:16 Multiple declarations of `Foo' 19:56:16 Declared at: .L.hs:119... 19:56:20 @let data Fooo a = Bar | Quux a 19:56:20 Defined. 19:56:30 @let instance Show (Fooo a) where show Bar = "q"; show _ = "r" 19:56:31 Defined. 19:56:31 -!- myname has joined. 19:56:32 > Quux () 19:56:35 r 19:56:38 @undefine 19:56:38 Undefined. 19:56:50 I also want to see what happen if you do combine this Turing machine logic with linear logic, to see what it makes. I believe the result is consistent but I haven't proven it. (I have proven that combining Turing machine logic with classical logic results in an inconsistent logic.) 19:57:42 shachaf: i didn't notice 19:57:52 > instance Typeable (Fooo a) 19:57:53 :1:1: parse error on input `instance' 19:58:00 @let instance Typeable (Fooo a) 19:58:01 .L.hs:119:20: Not in scope: type constructor or class `Fooo' 19:58:12 @let data Hi; instance Typeable Hi 19:58:13 .L.hs:121:10: 19:58:13 Can't create hand written instances of Typeable in Safe H... 19:58:57 The other bot supported "> data ...", "let ...", like ghci. Maybe lambdabot should support that too. 20:00:21 What value are a & b? 2 ? a ? b ? 99. Sam knows a+b. Pat knows ab. Sam: "I don't know a & b. Nor do you." Pat: "I do now!" Sam: "So do I." 20:00:26 shachaf: not my change 20:00:30 turns out this was already in lambdabot 20:00:35 Who set up lambdabot? Then tell them, or program the patch and give it to them. 20:00:36 Problem whose solution uses goldbach conjecture :-) 20:00:59 OK then. 20:01:45 What value are a & b? 2 <= a <= b <= 99. Sam knows a+b. Pat knows ab. Sam: "I don't know a & b. Nor do you." Pat: "I do now!" Sam: "So do I." (IRC didn't like less than or equal character) 20:02:13 lol 20:02:17 oh there it is 20:02:26 twitter is really bad at showing replies and at conversations generally 20:02:29 itsy: That isn't due to IRC; it is due to whatever character encoding is being used might or might not support it, and if the client support that character encoding or not. 20:02:31 Yep. 20:03:14 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:03:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:05:31 What I don't know how to make using sequent calculus is a pull-down resistor. 20:06:06 itsy, how does Sam know that Pat doesn't know a and b? 20:06:13 Does he work it out? 20:07:18 Taneb: At least I assume that must be. 20:09:17 how can the solution rely on the goldbach conjecture if a and b are <= 99? 20:13:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:14:06 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 20:16:15 -!- aloril has joined. 20:16:17 itsy: is & bitwise and 20:19:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:14 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:41:54 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:48:36 kmc: jesus, that EFF case. the government argued that the court didn't have authority over its own files? 20:50:33 i don't even know 20:50:52 state secrets trials are always a kafkaesque nightmare 20:51:13 yeah ;_; 20:51:23 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:51:26 apparently a senator said "I hope in a classified setting that more of this can be brought light" 20:51:29 like gee thanks 20:51:43 if you publish classified information you will sometimes be forbidden from attending your own trial because, the evidence is classified 20:52:16 even though it's not relevant to this it's the "born secret" part that reallly gets me 20:52:52 if i invent a fusion bomb design it is classified 20:54:56 maybe they'll decide that works for crypto in the future or something, sigh 20:54:58 yes 20:58:44 isn't there that thing where they do the trials "in camera" with like a public and private version 20:59:30 (geez why does "in camera" mean in private that makes no sense) 20:59:46 ^rainbow latin fetishism 20:59:50 oh no. 20:59:57 Oh no! 21:00:12 (My 'v6 tunnelbroker did what the name implies and broke down; just a moment.) 21:00:35 Fiora: well if you're inside a camera 21:00:38 the camera can't take a picture of you 21:00:43 so it makes sense! 21:00:56 if it's a pinhole camera can't it project you 21:00:57 -!- fungot has joined. 21:01:16 fungot: How can you take a photo in camera? 21:01:17 fizzie: a lot of functions in r5rs that you can beat delphi and vb.net or whatever just by selling lisp for money instead of delphi or vb.net for money. 21:01:25 Okay. 21:01:36 camera is Latin for room 21:01:41 Also Italian 21:01:46 camera is Latin for Italian 21:01:50 Fiora: Oh, they did that (with the two versions) for the "born secret" trial. 21:02:11 ooooh 21:02:17 that was the one I was remembering it from, I think 21:02:34 i heard about that because i have an omnibus of szilard's papers, half of which were classified derp 21:03:57 i just got a spam message from my mobile provider saying "See who's taken notice as we've enhanced your mobile experience" 21:04:04 that sure sounds ominous in this context 21:05:18 shachaf: & is just and 21:05:59 shouldn't it be "I don't know a /or/ b" 21:10:36 Taneb: Sam works it out. (I.e. from a+b, Sam knows ab can't be the product of two primes) 21:10:55 oh, and also "Since 1979, the FISA court rejected only 11 of 33,900 govt surveillance applications" so that's cool 21:11:25 Bike: if you know a, you know b. 21:12:48 @ask Phantom_Hoover http://24.media.tumblr.com/3260b4b8517dd6199069ee767ec86dfe/tumblr_moaf6cZXju1qaokvbo1_500.png help 21:12:49 Consider it noted. 21:12:52 Did any see about the German girl who got refused entry into the USA because the US govt read her private Facebook messages. (not posted to her wall or anything) 21:13:00 Bike: wow 21:13:38 Bike: wow 21:13:46 Bike: wow 21:14:49 Bike: seen it already 21:15:06 help? 21:16:39 Bike, why did you foist this upon me 21:17:07 also why is it "1942", what 21:17:36 it might... be a joke? idk 21:17:57 iirc 1942 was when martin luther defeated the nazi's with catholicism 21:18:46 oh my god he rewrote the whole thing. 21:18:58 «In a sense we've come to our nation's Internet to be meme-addicts. When the web-bloggers wrote the magnificent words of the Philosoraptor and the Nyancat, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to go "Ermahgerd!" This note was a promise that all men, yes, troll-face men as well as ridiculously photogenic guys, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "rage, being forever alone, and friendship is magic."» 21:19:04 i'm done 21:19:30 * kmc hands out cyanide pills 21:19:40 so, in conclusion, he- thanks 21:20:06 Bike: holy shit 21:20:25 Bike: holy shit 21:20:36 how does this exist 21:20:45 you know why, mnoqy 21:20:51 im ended 21:20:53 by that quote 21:20:56 im not asking why 21:20:57 im asking how 21:21:04 very carefully 21:21:13 :-] 21:22:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 21:22:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:33:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:00 `run relcome nooodl|chaf 21:40:03 ​nochafoodlchaf: Welcomechaf tochaf thechaf internachaftionalchaf hubchaf forchaf esotericchaf programminchafgchaf languagchafechaf designchaf andchaf deploymenchaftchaf! Forchaf morechaf informationchaf, chechafckchaf outchaf ouchafrchaf wikichaf: httpchaf://eschafolangschaf.or 21:40:32 how many silly text transformers do we have 21:40:53 it's unix, so infinity 21:40:56 `run cat bin/chaf 21:40:57 ​#!/bin/sed -f \ s/\w\w\w\+/\0chaf/g 21:41:14 `chaf hello 21:41:15 ​ELFchaf............>......@.....@..................@.8..@....................@.......@.....:.......:......... ...................@......@.....$.......$..............Qtd...........................................................GNUchaf.ﲜ@+Sˆ 21:41:23 is that... blinking... 21:41:28 `run echo hello | chaf 21:41:29 yes 21:41:30 hellochaf 21:41:32 i'm afraid 21:41:37 `run echo this is some nonsense | chaf 21:41:39 thischaf is somechaf nonsensechaf 21:41:46 whoah, there's a blink code on irc? 21:41:52 yeah this is news to me 21:41:54 ☺ 21:42:00 `run relcome sha|chaf 21:42:01 help 21:42:02 ​schafhachaf: Welcchafomechaf to thchafechaf interchafnatichafonalchaf hubchaf forchaf esotericchaf prochafgrammingchaf languchafagechaf designchaf andchaf deploymechafntchaf! Forchaf morechaf informchafationchaf, checkchaf outchaf ourchaf wikichaf: httpchaf://esolangschaf.orgchaf/wikchaf 21:42:05 nice 21:42:07 schafhachaf 21:42:20 esolangschaf.orgchaf 21:42:26 i'm still confused bout prochafgrammingchaf languchafagechaf 21:42:31 `run rm bin/chaf 21:42:34 No output. 21:42:34 no! 21:42:40 rest in peacechaf 21:42:44 `revert 21:42:46 its amazing 21:42:47 Done. 21:42:51 Is the goal to make me turn off the hilight? 21:43:06 mnoqy: ps did you write this 21:43:08 Maybe I should set the hilight to be kmc-only. 21:43:12 elliott: me? 21:43:15 well you used it 21:43:15 Apparently nooodl did. 21:43:16 i have no such goal 21:43:49 kmc: are you running for prime minister 21:48:06 what's the hilight for, chaf\b? 21:48:14 Bike: yes 22:00:38 oh 22:02:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:02:32 ? 22:03:40 it's a different slur! <-- [dk][iy]ke ? actually there's a not yet mentioned non-slur matching that, too 22:05:20 hm now google isn't answering 22:06:04 i've never seen one of those spellings 22:06:35 an elaborate system of dikes and polders 22:06:38 well i don't think kyke is a word hth 22:06:52 (it might still be, this is english after all) 22:07:16 yeah apparently it's an accepted other spelling 22:07:27 it's not like anyone's really dogmatically enforcing spellings of slurs 22:07:38 accepted alternate spellings: [a-z]* 22:07:40 fack that 22:07:58 don't be such a uaqbn, kmc 22:08:36 yesterday i wondered what's the longest word that can be typed on the dvorak home row 22:08:38 oh apparently both dike and dyke can be used in both meanings 22:08:41 don't be such a kmc, uaqbn 22:08:46 works both ways 22:08:52 it appears to be 'tendentiousness' 22:09:20 what is it for qwerty 22:09:22 i think i used to know 22:09:23 for qwerty the best you can do is 'alfalfa' 22:09:28 weak 22:09:53 for the top row the longest (and most famous) word is 'typewriter' 22:10:07 this is some indication of how fucked up qwerty is 22:10:32 what about bottom row 22:10:35 xczvnmxzcv 22:10:38 mxncvmznv 22:10:43 alfalfa salad has all 22:10:58 umm 22:11:01 "typewritery" 22:11:02 my favorite dvorak home row word is probably 'shithead' 22:11:03 like a typewriter 22:11:27 i should write a novel using only the home row in dvorak 22:11:31 do you use dvorak? 22:11:33 yes 22:11:48 oulipo for the modern age 22:11:49 qwerty for life 22:11:55 kmc: ok, then you should write a novel using only the home row 22:12:30 kmc: what about Galahads 22:12:39 proper nouns don't count hth 22:12:50 because shift isn't on the front row? 22:13:10 no 22:13:12 my words file gives "unostentatiousness" as the longest dvorak home row word 22:13:17 which is pretty badass 22:13:52 But what's the longest word you can write using only four letters? 22:14:05 As in, only four different ones 22:14:22 hmm 22:14:27 For example, lollipop 22:15:11 Freefull: Bananas 22:15:30 huh, it's not often that a "longest word" of any sort is something i can understand 22:15:34 senselessness 22:15:48 does lambdabot have a word list loaded? that could be fun 22:16:07 `run ls /usr/share/dict 22:16:08 No output. 22:16:14 itsy: That's shorter than lollipop 22:16:53 maximumBy (comparing length) . filter ((<=4) . length . nub) . lines <$> readFile "/usr/share/dict/words" 22:16:53 Bike: Well, lollipop was only an example of a word that only used 4 different letters or less 22:17:10 i meant "unostentatiousness" 22:17:20 'beerbibber', 'chachalaca', 'couscousou', 'isoosmosis', 'kerrikerri', 'kotukutuku', 'recercelee', 'rememberer', 'senescence', 'sereneness', 'sleeveless', 'tattletale', 'Wallawalla', 'Mississippi', 'taratantara', 'killeekillee', 'kinnikinnick', 'tangantangan', 'senselessness' 22:17:29 i like killeekillee 22:17:40 my ut2k4 name 22:17:50 @src comparing 22:17:50 Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. 22:17:59 @hoogle comparing 22:17:59 Data.Ord comparing :: Ord a => (b -> a) -> b -> b -> Ordering 22:18:18 Apparently senselessness 22:18:26 i was going to say penanggalan but it has 5 22:18:34 er, 6 22:18:36 darn 22:19:37 cool, words using 16 different letters: 'superacknowledgment', 'blepharoconjunctivitis', 'pneumoventriculography', 'formaldehydesulphoxylic', 'Pseudolamellibranchiata', 'pseudolamellibranchiate' 22:19:54 (that's the maximum) 22:20:04 those aren't in my list :( 22:20:08 `thanks biology 22:20:10 Thanks, biology. Thiology. 22:20:24 that's definitely the best script in lambdabot tbh 22:20:35 A mosquito was heard to complain / "a chemist has poisoned my brain!" / the cause of his sorrow / was para-dichloro / diphenyltrichloroethane 22:20:35 and it's not even in lambdabot :-) 22:20:52 yes it's just that good 22:21:15 careful, elliott might add it 22:21:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:21:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 22:21:42 a phantom visit 22:21:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:21:49 oerjan...... 22:21:52 kmc: good 22:22:18 yes this limerick is quality 22:22:24 (elliott: have you seen my unicode poetry) 22:22:29 22:22:34 Freefull: sleepless, longer than lollipop :) 22:22:56 man the only chemistry rhyme i can remember is the sulfuric acid one 22:23:09 im taking that as a no?? 22:23:22 geez where's the limerick 22:23:26 Bike: little johnny is no more? 22:23:30 @src (.) 22:23:30 (f . g) x = f (g x) 22:23:31 NB: In lambdabot, (.) = fmap 22:23:31 yeah. 22:23:31 `pastelogs HEXAGRAM 22:23:33 nice wrong warning 22:23:37 Fiora: classic y'know 22:23:45 itsy: We already determined with a program that senselessness fullfills the criteria 22:23:46 elliott: snort 22:23:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5018 22:24:11 :t (.) 22:24:12 `pastelogs 2013-06-06.txt:22:13: 22:24:21 @type (.) 22:24:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27428 22:24:36 so now @src (.) is wrong? hilarious 22:24:36 wow!!! fine 22:24:54 Bike: whenever I think of that limerick I think of the poor shirt I destroyed with nitric acid 22:24:57 elliott, 22:24:58 22:13:17: HEXAGRAM FOR THE CREATIVE HEAVEN 22:24:58 22:13:17: MATHEMATICAL BOLD DIGIT SEVEN 22:24:58 22:13:17: KANGXI RADICAL WHITE 22:24:58 22:13:17: VERTICAL TRAFFIC LIGHT 22:24:58 22:13:17: NEGATIVE CIRCLED NUMBER ELEVEN 22:25:09 Fiora: heh. did you see the mouth pippeting thing 22:25:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:19 ䷀𝟕⽩🚦⓫ 22:25:30 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 22:25:31 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 22:25:32 ? 22:25:37 mouth pippeting? 22:25:41 Fiora: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2013/03/20/mouth_pipetting/ 22:25:41 nooodl: You are awesome 22:25:45 nooodl: really good 22:26:54 i also wrote a haiku 22:26:55 and a sonnet 22:27:31 http://bpaste.net/raw/olydVfuzIeXaGKTkVxlJ/ this is the sonnet (ignore the |s they're just character name boundaries) 22:27:50 (make sure to read it in iambic pentameter!) 22:28:06 Bike: woooow 22:28:09 i can't read anything in iambic pentameter 22:28:09 You should write a program to do it for you now 22:28:11 what's the haiku 22:28:14 FreeFull: senselessnesses for 15 :-P 22:28:15 @tell taneb Does that make me a pro <-- now that makes you willy wonka hth 22:28:15 Consider it noted. 22:28:20 Fiora: yeaaaaaah 22:28:23 it was in the topic for a while 22:28:24 @tell taneb *no 22:28:24 Consider it noted. 22:28:32 @tell lambdabot Moo 22:28:32 Nice try ;) 22:28:37 nooodl: imo you should get these published 22:28:38 MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN | HIRAGANA LETTER YA | SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 22:28:44 it's really deep 22:28:51 it's great seeing the cadence and rhyme of poetry but not getting any meaning out of it 22:28:53 Snowman without snow 22:29:01 it has the 5-7-5 thing, kireji, season words, 22:29:14 haiku of the year 22:29:20 mnoqy: no that's yours 22:29:22 it looks like the easiest one but it's actually the best + hardest one 22:29:23 haiku of every year 22:29:28 Fiora: this came up in a discussion amongst chem grad students about getting carpal tunnel from pippeting, which is... better 22:30:04 @_@ 22:30:09 i don't think i really 'got' poetry until i read a Brown poem out loud. that was a nice feeling 22:30:44 oh i didn't see the sonet 22:30:44 nice 22:31:12 i like the final 6 verses 22:31:34 there's an ascii symbol inside too! 22:32:18 someone: write a script that converts my sonnet into actual unicode symbols 22:32:18 Try making a poem out of the names of greek letters 22:32:28 "English haiku" is lulz 22:32:28 Bike: wow this mouth pippetting thing is horrifying 22:32:33 yes 22:32:46 `thanks chemistry 22:32:47 Thanks, chemistry. Themistry. 22:32:50 Perfect 22:32:56 `thanks mouth pippetting 22:32:56 Thanks, mouth pippetting. Thouth pippetting. 22:33:05 vote: should it th-ify each word 22:33:10 no 22:33:12 No. 22:33:29 nooodl: have you even watched look around you btw.... 22:33:31 vote over 22:33:32 what yes 22:33:45 im offended 22:34:12 are we talking both series here or just the first one 22:34:17 "the interrogation" 22:34:26 i think only the first one...?? maybe 22:34:41 let me see 22:35:02 Long-time mouth pipettor back in the day...best (worst) moment was doling out a ton of bacterial broth into tubes using a 25 mL pipette for several minutes and then transfering bacterial cultures using a 1 mL pipette. 22:35:05 but would you really stress that "NEED"? it's ridic. <-- i think that was meant to indicate the urgency here, as in "only if you _really_ need it" 22:35:06 After about a dozen or so sucks on the 25 mL, I wasn't paying enough attention and did a 25-mL suck on the 1 mL pipette...almost inhaled the cotton ball and got a good mouthful of bacterial culture. Salty and a little yeasty. 22:35:17 a little yeasty 22:35:25 oerjan, but then why isn't REALLY bold 22:35:51 elliott: i've watched all of season 1 but also vaguely remember watching Computers from season two 22:36:03 (that's the one with the video games right?) 22:36:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:24 nooodl: um do you mean "ready"? there is no "really". 22:36:28 `thanks thanks 22:36:29 Thanks, thanks. Thanks. 22:36:49 oh hm 22:36:51 oh i thought you were quoting 22:36:54 nope 22:37:09 i've forgotten about this speech bubble hours ago 22:38:42 also it's supposed to be a little theatrical, i'm sure. 22:38:53 yeah 22:39:04 is it even worth it watching the second look around you series 22:39:17 these _are_ mad scientists and there minions, after all. 22:39:22 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 22:39:31 (and technically they're nobles, too) 22:39:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:39:56 shachaf: of course 22:40:06 it is fantastic, not as good as the first though 22:41:05 hey can you start a letter with "Mrs., Mr"? 22:41:27 when you have no idea of the name or gender of your correspondent 22:41:36 how about just use their name 22:41:55 *their 22:42:07 if it's so good why can't you get a region 1 (/ no region) dvd 22:42:10 checkmate 22:42:28 because I don't know their name elliott 22:42:53 i... ok 22:42:56 in french we'd go with "Madame, Monsieur, " 22:43:32 masseur 22:44:12 what'd you say about my sister?? *headbut* 22:44:48 this french joke... 22:45:09 head but what? 22:46:12 well I know you'd expect me to put some t there 22:46:23 but I'm not british am I? I only drink coffee 22:47:45 then you should be colombian hth 22:50:15 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:53:54 > fix$'h':'t':'h': 22:53:54 :1:17: 22:53:54 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched... 22:53:59 > fix('h':'t':'h':) 22:54:00 The operator `:' [infixr 5] of a section 22:54:00 must have lower precedence th... 22:54:09 Aw 22:54:47 Yeah, I see why that wouldn't work 22:55:05 well it _could_ have worked, haskell just doesn't allow it. 22:56:17 > join$"hth"<$[1..] 22:56:18 "hthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthht... 22:56:30 > unwords$"hth"<$[1..] 22:56:31 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 22:56:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:57:00 > forever "hth" 22:57:04 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:57:15 hm brain fart 22:58:38 :t swap 22:58:38 (a, b) -> (b, a) 22:59:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:59:53 @pl \x -> if x == a then b else if x == b then a else x 22:59:57 ap (flip if' b . (a ==)) (join (flip if' a . (b ==))) 22:59:57 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:00:29 What? 23:01:30 @pl-resume 23:01:36 ap (flip if' b . (a ==)) (join (flip if' a . (b ==))) 23:01:36 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:01:52 Weird 23:02:31 :t lookup 23:02:32 Eq a => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b 23:02:53 @let let swapE a b = map (\x -> if x == a then b else if x == b then a else x ) 23:02:53 Parse failed: Parse error: EOF 23:03:08 :t fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:03:09 Expr -> Expr 23:04:11 @pl x 23:04:11 x 23:04:35 :t \x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:04:35 Expr -> Expr -> Expr 23:04:40 :t \a b x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:04:41 Eq a => a -> a -> a -> a -> a 23:04:43 @pl ap x (join y) 23:04:43 ap x (join y) 23:05:27 @pl \a b -> map $ \x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)] 23:05:31 ((map $) .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:05:31 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:05:42 @pl-resume 23:05:48 ((map $) .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:05:48 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:05:57 @pl \a b -> map *\x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)]) 23:05:57 (line 1, column 59): 23:05:57 unexpected ')' 23:05:57 expecting variable, "(", ".", "`", "!!", operator, "*", "/", "`quot`", "`rem`", "`div`", "`mod`", ":%", "%" or end of input 23:06:02 @pl \a b -> map (\x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)]) 23:06:05 (map .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:06:05 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:06:16 elliott: is there some bug in @pl's check of whether anything is changing? 23:06:48 or perhaps two rules that cancel each other but keep triggering 23:07:15 i recall this one from before: 23:07:25 @pl (ap id id) (ap id id) 23:07:28 ap id id (ap id id) 23:07:28 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:07:31 @pl really is pointless 23:07:32 really is pointless 23:08:01 @pl ACTION licks something 23:08:01 (line 1, column 1): 23:08:01 unexpected "\SOH" 23:08:01 expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression 23:08:02 that one actually is reasonable as infinitely triggering. 23:08:09 (although it cannot type) 23:08:55 @pl \1ACTION licks something\1 23:08:55 (line 1, column 25): 23:08:55 unexpected "\\" 23:08:55 expecting pattern or "->" 23:09:00 @pl "\1ACTION licks something\1" 23:09:00 "\SOHACTION licks something\SOH" 23:09:01 :t (ap id id) 23:09:02 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> b0 23:09:02 Expected type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 23:09:02 Actual type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 -> b0 23:09:05 right 23:09:21 :t (id <*> id) 23:09:22 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> b0 23:09:22 Expected type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 23:09:22 Actual type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 -> b0 23:09:42 isn't that exactly the same 23:09:46 :t (ap) 23:09:46 Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 23:09:52 yes 23:10:01 ap is like <*> but monadier 23:10:22 :t (<*>) 23:10:23 Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 23:10:27 but @pl didn't know about applicatives last i checked 23:10:42 @pl (id <*> id) (id <*> id) 23:10:42 (id <*> id) (id <*> id) 23:11:56 @pl \x -> x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x 23:11:57 join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join id)))))))))))))))))))))))) 23:12:02 awesome 23:12:23 @pl \x -> x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x x 23:12:25 ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (join id)))))))))))))))))))))) `ap` join id 23:12:56 Not much longer 23:13:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:13:26 @pl \x -> \y -> x*y*x*y*x*y 23:13:29 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:13:29 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:13:38 looks efficient. 23:13:40 @pl-resume 23:13:46 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:13:47 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:13:50 you'd think 23:13:51 WEAK 23:14:03 @pl \x y -> x*y*x*y*x*y 23:14:06 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:14:06 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:14:08 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pW0fbLrweME/T9hQhjYUINI/AAAAAAAAEGs/CnYKunGnryo/s1600/IMG_5897ac.JPG bizarre fungus 23:14:12 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/ileodictyon_gracile.html 23:14:28 Bike: you know because of Doubles and stuff it cannot assume * is associative hth 23:14:30 kmc: Far from weirdest fungus 23:14:33 cooool 23:14:44 (not that it would care anyhow) 23:14:47 FreeFull: ;P 23:15:08 @pl \x y z f g -> x*y*z*f*g*y 23:15:11 flip (ap . (flip .) . ((flip .) .) . (((flip .) .) .) . (((((*) .) .) .) .) . ((((*) .) .) .) . (((*) .) .) . ((*) .) . (*)) id 23:15:11 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:15:27 @pl \x y -> x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y 23:15:32 join . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) 23:15:33 . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . (*))))))) 23:15:33 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:15:41 Probably far from best 23:15:48 But I did get lambdabot to split it across two lines 23:17:42 * FreeFull installs lambdabot locally 23:19:03 isn't there some simple way to use @pl by itself 23:19:27 Which would be? 23:19:51 i don't know, last time i asked how @pl worked i was answered with "It uses Haskell" 23:19:53 > (curry$(!!13).scanl1(*).cycle.sequence[fst,snd])x y 23:19:55 x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y 23:21:10 cool 23:25:27 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:54 > map ([1..] !!) [1..] 23:27:55 [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,2... 23:29:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:29:46 Was told to relax a bit <-- have you started worrying your coworkers? 23:29:48 @pl \x -> 3 x 23:29:48 3 23:30:01 oerjan, not that I know of, I hope 23:30:15 If I can strike fear into one of our vendors though, I would be happy 23:30:30 i recall you mentioned something about "workaholic" 23:30:56 I often think about work when I'm at home... then again, I sometimes think about not-work at work 23:31:04 But those times I usually feel a bit guilty 23:31:12 @pl 3 3 23:31:12 3 3 23:31:18 @pl \x -> \x -> x x 23:31:18 const (join id) 23:31:40 @pl \x -> x^x^x^x^x^x^x 23:31:41 ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (join (^)))))) 23:31:53 @pl \x y -> x^y^x^y^x^y^x 23:31:56 liftM2 (.) (^) (ap (^) . liftM2 (.) (^) (ap (^) . ap ((.) . (^)) (flip (^)))) 23:31:56 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:32:01 Meh 23:32:09 wait what is that 23:32:11 :t (^) 23:32:11 (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a 23:32:13 Multiplication was best so far 23:32:19 :t (**) 23:32:19 Floating a => a -> a -> a 23:32:27 haskell is hard............. 23:32:28 :t (^^) 23:32:29 (Fractional a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a 23:33:06 > ap (*) (ap (*) (ap (*) (join (*)))) x 23:33:07 x * (x * (x * (x * x))) 23:33:08 Bike: Sure, there are three exponentiation operators 23:33:09 pikhq, reviews said the bass was too quiet on these... the bass is much more pronounced than I'm used to 23:33:25 But you can usually either just use ^ or ** 23:33:30 great 23:33:46 Bike: it's all those monads, am i rite 23:33:50 Sgeo_: Some people think bass is about amplitude. 23:34:50 > (3 ^ 481891) `mod` 17 23:34:51 10 23:34:54 ^^ is for the rare case when you are raising something that can be divided but isn't floating-point to a possibly negative integral type 23:34:55 cool 23:35:29 > x ^^ (-3) 23:35:30 recip (x * x * x) 23:36:30 so i'm wondering, is the modular exponentiation thing optimized well 23:36:39 not at all afaik 23:36:43 > (4 :: Int) ^^ (-2 :: Int) 23:36:44 No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) 23:36:44 arising from a use o... 23:37:18 otoh if you define a modular type ^ will work on it efficiently automatically 23:37:51 well, relatively efficient, it won't make use of cycles in the exponent as that would require euler phi-function stuff 23:38:52 and factorizing the modulus, i think 23:39:01 OMG 23:39:03 MY INTERNET FIXED ITSELF 23:39:06 GOD BLESS GOD BLESS GOD BLESS 23:39:23 internet, ruining elliott's atheism since 2013 23:39:24 ? 23:39:24 i had all but given up hope 23:39:31 kmc: my internet went down 23:39:32 for like 23:39:33 half an hour 23:39:47 the horror 23:39:59 it is seriously worrying that this actually makes me depressed and panicky 23:40:01 o well 23:40:04 it's back now so i don't have to think about that 23:40:17 millenials, am i right 23:40:26 with their facebooks and their instagrams 23:41:00 i wish internet was considered as important as a utility as, e.g. electricity 23:41:09 municipal internet is a thing 23:41:12 in terms of expected reliability of access etc. 23:41:21 Bike: yeah but it isn't really any better is it 23:41:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:41:57 well i just mean, people do think like you're saying 23:42:06 imo i want results 23:42:07 not that it's as far as electricity yet in terms of reliability 23:42:21 (and of course electricity isn't that reliable anywhere either check your privilege etc etc) 23:42:27 everywhere* 23:42:38 um i obviously only care about mysel 23:42:39 f 23:42:40 ever 23:42:46 hey what channel name should i use to test lambdabot note it has to not end in "bot" 23:42:58 tobadbmal 23:43:33 ooh, spooky 23:43:54 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:43:54 who is this bmal and what is this hidden lambdabot they were involved in 23:44:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 23:44:06 *lambdabot tragedy 23:44:08 #tobun it is 23:44:12 join for fun lambdabot testing time's 23:46:19 #bots does not end in bot 23:47:33 "Hello Sgeo_, Attempting to change the rules in someone else's environment is a game that cannot be won." 23:47:46 Got greeted by that in #bots 23:48:04 Reminds me of the Risho-Agoran war... a little 23:48:09 I didn't actually ever see it myself 23:48:26 http://25.media.tumblr.com/a529c4c5aa22f00c361b6a591c5a3467/tumblr_moapkcYyQV1rsbiwyo1_400.jpg esoteric animes 23:50:26 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:27 -!- sacje has joined. 23:54:28 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to SgeoBot. 23:55:10 i was ever so slightly responsible for the risho-agoran war, i recall. 23:56:39 Good work. 23:56:53 oerjan: cool 2013-06-13: 00:05:22 anyway apparently there are crypto startups i didn't know this <-- presumably they're good at hiding? 00:05:49 deep 00:11:16 lool 00:11:20 Bike: example? 00:11:30 of what 00:11:35 crypto startups/ 00:13:41 https://crypto.cat/ 00:15:06 came up in http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/12/4422480/is-prism-good-news-for-cryptographers 00:16:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:19:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:20:52 `list 00:20:53 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 00:20:55 oops 00:20:57 `slist 00:20:58 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:20:59 Supposedly. 00:21:21 At least, the notifier I made in another room went off... 00:21:21 hey, how did I end up in the `list? 00:21:32 not that I mind, but I'm pretty sure I didn't trigger it intentionally 00:21:35 `cat bin/list 00:21:36 ​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 00:21:42 `pastelogs ais523.*`list 00:21:44 ah right, it's historical 00:21:57 I triggered an early in-testing version of the `list 00:21:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17695 00:22:15 the proto-list 00:22:23 what happens in `list, stays in `list 00:22:50 anyway, now SgeoBot has triggered the `list, it will be there eternally 00:23:00 btw, I liked the old race condition version 00:23:06 because it was harder to figure out, and trollier 00:23:06 sgeo is a bot now? 00:23:18 aren't we all 00:23:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:23:33 the new version fits in better with the idea behind it, at least 00:24:02 the latest pages hasn't been updated yet. just the most recent page, with an arrow 00:24:09 kmc: i bought _The Power Broker_ 00:24:09 kmc, yes, Bike uncovered me in #bike 00:24:15 hey what's the way to get the file size of a directory recursively on linux 00:24:23 i can never remember it and whether it involves du 00:24:31 What does the file size of a directory mean? 00:24:32 might be some time before i start/finish reading it, though 00:24:34 it's du with a couple of options 00:24:36 Go to last page, click link from there 00:24:41 For Homestuck update 00:24:56 i usually do du -hs dirname 00:25:00 du -bcs dirname 00:25:05 that works 00:25:25 you also might want -l if you want to count each copy of a hard link, rather than the single file that's linked 00:25:33 which depends on what you're trying to do 00:25:40 it's spelled du -sh you unpatriotic scum of the earth 00:25:48 thanks 00:25:48 i bet you write rm -fr too 00:25:49 shachaf: if you use -h rather than -b, then it counts the disk space used 00:25:52 not the size of all the files in it 00:25:52 -sh is not even in alphabetical order. 00:26:05 so very small files will be counted as more than the number of bytes in them 00:26:08 this is not what Bike asked for 00:27:10 * kmc hands out cyanide pills <-- and this is how humanity will finally evolve the ability not to click ominous links hth 00:27:49 oerjan: and use a browser that can't be XSSed attacked through plain text files? 00:28:49 now that's going a bit far. 00:29:13 huh, I wasn't expecting an update 00:29:15 thank you SgeoBot 00:29:36 I suppose it has technically been months 00:31:03 years 00:31:05 over .001 years!! 00:31:24 more importantly there are jerkcityhd posts http://24.media.tumblr.com/aef6f8b854fb820eb634748be7289463/tumblr_mo57efs8CY1snfhwio1_1280.png 00:31:30 moving to SF feels vaguely self-destructive given how annoyed I am by web/mobile app startup culture 00:31:36 but i can't really escape it by being physically far away, either 00:31:42 so i might as well be where my friends are 00:32:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:32:31 look at it this way: there's good weed 00:33:09 http://jerkcityhd.tumblr.com/image/51435557806 and good dicks 00:33:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:33:42 haha 00:33:47 i should get a shower curtain that looks like macsbug 00:34:02 caliborn's narration is amazing 00:34:27 it truly is 00:34:49 "DID SHE DRAW HERSELF?? I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S POSSIBLE. CONSIDERING SHE IS FICTIONAL. AS WELL AS A GIRL." 00:34:58 boogle vacantly 00:35:05 "IT TURNS OUT THE MALE CAN LEAVE AFTER ALL. RELATIVELY UNHINDERED. BASICALLY CONTRADICTING THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE STORY." is the best 00:35:23 i was wondering about the typo route/root but i guess it was intentional or at least fits 00:35:27 boogle down 00:36:46 yeah that one's pretty good 00:59:00 oh, there we go, feed updated 00:59:11 kmc: i was going to ask if you heard about the private silly valley buses 00:59:17 but i think i heard about them from your twitter SO 00:59:25 was it silly valley, i think it was 01:00:40 Bike: spigot is "super kawaii" in that first one, as they say 01:00:57 yes that is what they say 01:01:25 I Know the People 01:07:14 Did you try to ==> out of the flash early? 01:07:16 You should 01:11:27 -!- itsy has left. 01:18:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:41:49 yeah it's pretty good 02:00:27 elliott: which? the company shuttles run by Google etc, or the private subscription bus lines in SF? 02:00:50 imo there's nothing wrong with the rich paying for luxury public transit, if the basic govt public transit is adequate 02:00:53 but it isn't really 02:01:04 and the city is too incompetent to e.g. tax the luxury services and fund the public ones 02:01:07 kmc: i meant the company ones yeah 02:01:31 america desperately needs health care reform to reduce the amount of useless snail mail i receive 02:07:17 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:22 @bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 02:08:22 @ 02:10:11 @bf ,[.,]!Does this work? 02:10:11 Done. 02:10:25 'parently not. 02:15:33 @bf ,[.,]!++++++++++. 02:15:33 Done. 02:19:35 kmc: btw am planning to do god's work re: haskell FAQ 02:21:00 "Quotes of the Week 02:21:00 shachaf: getLine :: IO String contains a String in the same way /bin/ls contains a list of files." 02:21:09 That is not a quote that first occurred within the past week 02:23:45 elliott: good (what though) 02:24:02 strings /bin/ls | grep ^/ 02:26:37 kmc: well, you know @faq... 02:26:55 @faq 02:26:55 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 02:27:00 lol great 02:27:17 @bf input!,[.,] 02:27:17 Done. 02:27:18 @faq Can Haskell fix @faq without outside intervention? 02:27:18 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 02:27:37 Bike: http://sprunge.us/WUOh 02:27:51 my god. 02:27:58 are they serious? 02:28:05 well some of those obviously aren't 02:28:17 this is terrible 02:28:43 "can I use HASKELL to solve problem from ARTIFICAL INTELIGENCE, like DEPTH TREE SEARCH ,or A*, its hardest than same algorithn in C++ with C++ Standart Library data structures, like FIFO/LIFO/LISTs etc. ?" snort 02:28:57 Bike: well you see the thing is someone asks a question in #haskell 02:29:06 yeah i know how it goes 02:29:06 and then no matter what it is if it involves asking whether you can do something, potentially in haskell 02:29:11 you put @faq in front of it 02:29:15 and you're a master of comedy 02:29:17 oh so it's 02:29:19 a "meme" 02:29:24 well 02:29:37 it was originally because people would ask things like "can haskell do [incredibly basic thing that any real language can do]" 02:29:44 yeah i'm sure 02:29:48 but now it's just... kind of annoying 02:29:48 "does haskell have i/o" 02:29:50 i assume you're going to have @faq link to kmc's first epistle to the nerds 02:29:53 right 02:29:57 that's the idea 02:30:12 and probably you'll get called a nazi for killing the joke or whatever 02:30:12 so now people will try to mock questions and inadvertantly link something that might even answer them!!! 02:30:15 yes 02:30:21 i love ruining things, goddamn 02:30:40 What's this epistle? 02:30:46 @where faq 02:30:46 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 02:32:22 Oh. From what you called it, I thought it was going to be some ... thingy 02:32:31 Thingy? 02:32:39 "epistle" is just oldspeak for "letter". 02:33:36 Some generic thoughts on geekiness or somethign 02:34:10 that's kmc's First Testament 02:36:20 you ever shred so much stuff that the shredder overheats? 02:36:26 no 02:36:36 well i have, hth 02:36:39 (just now) 02:36:40 oh no 02:36:42 (but also before) 02:36:42 did you die 02:36:44 no 02:36:47 still alive 02:36:47 rip kmc 02:36:51 rip 02:36:52 i'll come to your funeral 02:37:10 "we will bury you" -- shachaf 02:38:19 "we will bury them" -- soviet rhino heavy tank in red alert 2, being ordered to attack 02:38:51 are you a tank y/n 02:39:16 hey remember red alert 2 02:39:23 that was a good computer game 02:40:02 it was 02:40:06 ./win goto 39 02:40:08 oops 02:40:36 did you know you can just say /win 39 02:40:37 hth 02:40:45 yes 02:40:46 but I forget 02:40:57 also you can press alt then press the 39 key 02:41:01 shachaf.win++ 02:41:08 kmc: huh 02:41:18 I was telling elliott about an irssi feature... 02:41:27 oh elliott.win++ 02:41:35 shachaf.win-- 02:41:47 the MIT UAV club flew their UAV into the river... 02:41:52 Controlled Flight Into Terrain 02:42:10 uncontrollable air vehicle 02:42:48 I love the phrase "controlled flight into terrain" 02:43:08 TERRAAAAAIN 02:43:26 works better in #cslounge-trains 02:43:35 if you like trains you should join that channel hth 02:44:49 http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/ppppppowerup 02:45:02 that's the soundtrack to VVVVVV 02:45:03 it's good 02:45:12 let me guess, drums 02:45:12 the game as well 02:45:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:45:29 not as such, but possibly an 8bit synth approximation thereof 02:45:32 the game got a bit memorizey 02:45:38 the game is about dying isn't it 02:45:40 kmc, no, it's remixed versions of the soundtrack to VVVVVV 02:45:42 mostly 02:45:44 SgeoBot: oh 02:46:08 But the actual soundtrack is awesome too 02:46:32 should i go to the "they might be giants performance" on friday in sf 02:47:48 shachaf, you should probably go listen to PPPPPP first 02:48:55 I love soundtracks. 02:49:31 Original Soundtracks 1 is the best soundtrack hth 02:50:59 Bike: i was just thinking about that album the other day wtf (i haven't even heard it) 02:51:43 hey i think i have that sound track as part of humble blah blah don't i 02:52:34 I know VVVVVV itself was in a Humble Bundle 02:53:28 third 02:53:48 elliott: have you seen Ghost in the Shell 02:53:50 Bike: i don't recall memorization in that game 02:54:01 it was mostly precise timing for jumps 02:54:11 Bike: nope 02:54:16 i normally hate jumping puzzles but VVVVVV did a really good job eliminating the delay before you can try again 02:54:29 kmc: braid did the best job of that 02:54:38 that's really what I hate, 30 seconds of tedious walking around until you can get to the jump and fail again 02:54:38 I remember seeing a bit of a let's play linked on youtube where someone spent like 30+ minutes on one 10 second segment 02:54:41 shachaf: true 02:54:46 braid is a good game also 02:54:51 braid <3 02:54:58 Fiora: the joke is, i know exactly which segment 02:55:01 imo seeing the braid mechanic not as a central puzzle mechanic but just a convenient continuous undo thing would be nice 02:55:03 kmc: it got pretty rote for me 02:55:04 Bike: "doing things the hard way"? 02:55:09 Fiora: yep 02:55:11 shachaf: prince of persia 02:55:18 Sorta 02:55:27 i forget if i ever actually got that one 02:55:33 What about veni vedi veci... oh same thing I guess 02:55:43 Fiora: I've only played one Prince of Persia game. It was a long time ago. It didn't have that. 02:55:52 But I hear there's more than one game so maybe others do. 02:55:54 in prince of persia when you fell or something it let you rewind I think? 02:55:58 like that was one of the things it did 02:56:03 i like how i have 2834923984234 humble bundles 02:56:05 and have played like 3 of the games 02:56:14 conspicuous consumption hth 02:56:40 the one i played looked a lot like http://toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/130503.jpeg 02:56:47 thx google images 02:56:50 ... oh 02:56:53 I was thinking Sands of Time 02:57:04 it was on a cd of 100 shareware games 02:57:08 all i had was the demo 02:57:21 maybe you should play a Prince of Persia game tha'ts less bad. 02:57:21 man i sure loved that cd 02:57:28 it had all these games!! 02:57:37 like jill of the jungle. who remembers jill of the jungle. i do 02:57:38 elliott: anyway the point is, listen to "One Minute Warning" 02:58:05 i like the braid guy's essays more than his games. 02:58:08 Bike: i'll need a one minute warning first 8) :D : D :D: D :LD:L:LD: L:D :K <3k0 i3-0 it0-hroph;lg ,bv. 02:58:12 zjksdxzlsekhfa5w87veyisudgkxclx\' 02:58:13 c]|Z:"Z?[ 02:58:16 has he done anything since braid? 02:58:35 i know he was planning something 02:58:40 but who knows with these artsy types 02:58:43 I know he's doing a next-gen console thing on PS4 02:58:57 i think i mostly liked braid for the art because i like the artist 02:58:59 SgeoBot: this was nice until the drum-alikes started :'( 02:59:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witness_(2013_video_game) 02:59:13 maybe i'm just too fly-like to do puzzley games 02:59:31 shachaf, PPPPPP or the remix? 02:59:32 braid was definitely one of those games where like, I could beat my head for 30 minutes on a puzzle 02:59:36 and then look up the answer on youtubue 02:59:38 Because I cannot vouch for the quality of the remixes 02:59:40 and in retrospect wow that was so obvious 02:59:41 2013 more like 20never 02:59:44 Just for the quality of PPPPPP 02:59:44 wait 2013 isn't over yet 02:59:47 i mixed it up with 2012 03:00:16 SgeoBot: I listened to whatever you linked in here. 03:00:20 «Blow says he started to "check out" from his parents as early as elementary school. His mother was an ex-nun who constantly reminded her son about the imminent coming of Jesus and would later disown Blow's older sister for coming out as a lesbian in the mid-80s. Blow's father worked all day as a defense contractor and would come home to be alone in his den, where children were not allowed.» wow 03:00:21 http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/ppppppowerup 03:00:52 shachaf, ok then. This is the original: http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/pppppp-the-vvvvvv-soundtrack 03:01:16 Bike: nice 03:01:21 game developers. 03:01:40 i didn't even know "ex-nun" was a thing you could be 03:01:41 SgeoBot: Still has drumalikes. :-( 03:01:56 did http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/frc/index.html just stop existing all of a sudden :( 03:02:06 Koen_, there's an archive 03:02:15 is that about engels 03:02:20 Tada: http://sir-toby.com/nomic-archives/frc/ 03:02:28 thank you mister bot 03:02:40 dammit it's some nerd shit isn't it 03:02:44 Bike: this is good i should listen to the album (i make a point of hating U2 so this is not easy to admit) 03:03:05 Bike, it branched off a game of nomic 03:03:34 SgeoBot: i had to turn it off because it felt like it was beating my brain in until i would die 03:03:34 elliott: it's ok i hate them too. Eno also worked on it though and I don't hate him. 03:03:55 good rationalization, imo 03:04:36 eno also worked with coldplay 03:04:39 "im just sayin" 03:04:57 i kinda like coldplay "sorry" 03:05:18 i don't know what coldplay is "sorry" 03:05:27 a band with drums 03:05:32 i knew it 03:05:44 it's not paranoia when they're really out to get you hth 03:05:44 you just said you didn't! 03:05:54 shachaf: btw prior warning the they might be giants performance will involve drums hth 03:06:06 shachaf, are you the master? 03:06:11 elliott: sometimes they don't......sometimes they do i don't know 03:06:20 my sister is going today in seattle 03:28:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:07 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:41:56 -!- Koen_ has left. 04:20:31 shredding done, now using the shredder as a footrest 04:21:35 coldplay is mediocre but for the most part not actively offensive 04:21:43 what did you shred 04:21:46 papers 04:21:54 oh 04:21:59 good shredding material 04:22:01 don't get your feet in the shredder hth 04:22:12 "Al-Yafi was a well-known and prolific contributor to top-tier Al-Qaida forums with over 30,000 postings." 04:22:17 I,I mediocre jelly 04:22:30 btw the start-up sound of the OLPC XO-1 is the first four notes of "Beautiful Day" by U2 04:22:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7GOupMDrU 04:22:47 it's hard to tell with the internal speaker because it picks out weird harmonics 04:22:56 but it's super obvious if you plug in headphones 04:23:39 Someone just offered to pay my admission fee to the upcoming Rebol conference if I came 04:23:56 do you have to fly 04:24:05 foot status: unshredded 04:24:05 > hi (hi 5 (+) 3) (*) (hi 4 (+) 4) -- infix without infix! 04:24:08 64 04:24:26 let hi x f y = f x y -- ? 04:24:28 that's not evry infix 04:24:30 *very 04:24:31 hi = flip flip 04:24:35 Bike, it's in a different country... 04:24:35 you don't even get the associativityi ejrirtproperty 04:24:37 :t flip flip 04:24:37 b -> (a -> b -> c) -> a -> c 04:24:40 (So yes.) 04:24:41 so, yes. 04:24:42 is it a good country 04:24:44 efb 04:24:51 pop pop 04:24:55 kmc: i'm going to need a twitter account for your foot status asap plz thx hth 04:24:58 elliott: did you have a stroke 04:24:59 pop pop watching motherfuckers drop 04:25:07 @miuaf_foot_ebooks 04:25:19 kmc: yes 04:25:29 kmc: i'm just not built for this world and its complete sentences 04:25:30 elliott: might want to get that cehcked out 04:25:36 get some of that NHS 04:25:44 would follow 04:25:51 +5, Troll 04:26:00 still waiting for zzo38_ebooks 04:26:26 main is usually a foot 04:26:41 ok you all need to help me out here 04:26:54 i need to understand the sentence: "Al-Jaza'iri was a jihadi web forum users who was well known and well-respected in the online extremist community." 04:27:02 what is a jihadist forum like. give me ideas 04:27:12 how can one be respected on an internet it doesn't make sense 04:27:24 I respect you 04:27:26 you're respected 04:27:37 ergo Bike is a jihadist 04:27:43 oh 04:28:04 gonna have to come to terms with that Bike 04:28:14 death to the west? 04:28:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:28:18 shit i'll have to grow a beard 04:28:21 that's gonna suck 04:28:23 i'm amused because obviously the jihadi web forums will have the same stupid web forum drama as every other web forum 04:28:29 and i'm just amused thinking about this 04:28:34 you're friends with a woman, I don't think they allow that 04:28:56 that's true, a lot of them are engineering students. 04:29:13 kmc: "itt: infidels defending their terrible alcohol decisions" 04:29:17 why would you engineer a student 04:29:23 kmc: arguments over how large the burning america flag image signatures should be allowed to be 04:29:33 p. sure this is exactly what jihadi web forums must be like 04:29:35 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04:29:51 i just got back from the tunisian revolt AmA #yolo 04:30:38 actually yeah now that you mention it none of the listed dead are women 04:30:43 al-nusra needs to get its act together imo 04:30:52 jihadi forum where they have some nutter going on about how 9/11 was an inside job but the angle is mostly that it's really disappointing that al qaida couldn't pull it off themselves 04:31:13 i'm definitely 100% terrorism expert, trust me 04:31:30 the people who wrote this report i'm reading presumably read these forums regularly 04:31:33 i wonder if i can like, ask 04:31:39 "jihadist 4chan report please" 04:33:05 yo Bike why am i not asleep yet; checkmate 04:33:24 http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2013/06/upcoming-revelations-speculations.html am i allowed to be annoyed at an article for being baseless speculation when it has 'speculation' in the title 04:33:41 elliott: you're a fucking heathen hth 04:33:56 kmc: haha this is bad 04:35:34 Microsoft bought Skype for $8 billion dollars. It doesn't seem to make sense. Now that we see Skype and Microsoft prominently mentioned in the PRISM documents, we may find out that this entire thing was a plot by the NSA. 04:35:59 "nsa made microsoft buy skype" best conspiracy theory 04:36:36 Four billion wordwide population - all living - have a Computer God Containment Policy Brain Bank Brain, a real brain, in the Brain Bank Cities on the far side of the moon we never see. 04:36:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 04:37:01 http://jihadology.net/2010/10/20/an%E1%B9%A3ar-al-mujahidin-arabic-forum-adds-a-section-for-women/ this is going well. 04:37:05 For the record, I have not yet received an NSL (National Security Letter). Crypto guy Matt Blaze irregularly points this out on twitter as a neat trick. An NSL forbids a person from disclosing that they received the NSL. Thus, while you can't confirm you've received one, you can simply stop posting that you haven't. 04:37:10 man i don't fucking believe this works 04:37:30 because only nerds would do that, for one 04:37:30 rsync.net do it too, post a "we haven't had to blah blah blah" thing regularly 04:37:53 is there any chance whatsoever that ceasing to publish such notices wouldn't be considered an admission that it happened in court 04:38:07 http://jihadology.net/2010/10/26/arabic-language-forum-ash-shamukh-al-islamiyyah-announced-the-creation-of-the-shamukh-college-of-islamic-sciences/ Any student that does not attend a lecture three times or more without having permission from the college will be terminated from the program. 04:38:23 seems like a good way to get a free one way flight to eastern europe 04:38:35 Moreover, al-Falluja administrators urged members and visitors on the forums “to take caution and wariness in corresponding via private messages…[and] to use Asrar al-Mujahideen [the Mujahideen Secrets] software and to not avoid this matter.” The aforementioned software, developed by al-Ekhlaas Forum, is a coded-software that enables forum members to communicate directly with Al-Qaida’s offshoot in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). 04:39:08 http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/audio/Gangster%20Computer%20God%20Worldwide%20Secret%20Containment%20Policy.mp3 04:39:29 elliott: nerds are the saddest lawyers. 04:39:41 kmc: my weakness: filenames like that 04:39:50 wait is this that guy 04:39:56 Yeah. 04:41:06 this is relaxing 04:41:10 i feel reassured 04:41:16 http://www.theonion.com/articles/it-sure-has-been-a-while-since-the-tonight-show-di,31267/ 04:41:20 kmc: holy fuck 04:41:23 that erratasec blog 04:41:24 -!- aloril has joined. 04:41:25 People are asking if Edward Snowden (the NSA leaker) is libertarian. My answer is "probably". 04:41:28 We libertarians have a sort of "gaydar", we can spot fellow libertarians even when they say things that are completely neutral and non-political. Back in the day, I was in the "libertarian-closet", and tried to hide my wacky feelings for limited government. I tried to talk and act like everyone else. However, other libertarians could tell my true self. I never understood how that was possible. 04:41:34 Now that I've gotten older, I've discovered that I've got libradar, too, and can often recognize my fellow wackos. I can't say consciously what makes me feel that Snowden is libertarian, but I get that vibe from him. 04:41:38 pppdsfdpogshjfgkdk.fdg;'lsfk 04:41:45 ok well he probably is actually a libertarian 04:41:47 but: that's great 04:41:59 We libertarians have a sort of "gaydar" 04:43:05 * kmc ponders libertarianism 04:43:35 kmc more like kmponder 04:43:57 hayek is kind of interesting, libertarian-wise 04:44:00 why don't i hear more libertarians trying to loudly differentiate themselves from the privilege-denying fuckwit contingent 04:44:11 is it because i don't listen to anyone who identifies as a libertarian 04:44:13 i have a book by a market socialist whose thesis advisor was Hayek 04:44:21 i feel that this may have been sort of awkward? 04:44:56 kmc: well among the obvious answers, how about that they actually believe that 2-axis politics crap 04:45:05 if you believe in limited government but you also donate 50% of your income to help the less fortunate, that might be respectable? 04:45:16 it's not like current governments do a great job of helping poor people 04:45:37 i work in a private enterprise that feeds poor people 04:45:39 synergising recent topics of: NSA, they might be giants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32-eLOoAUU 04:45:41 where's the help ron paul?? 04:45:46 hehe 04:46:03 (btw because i'm still thinking about it they're gonna cut billions from SNAP and aaaaah) 04:46:14 :/ 04:46:30 elliott: Left & Right is the old tried & effective tactic of " Hegalian Dialectic. " either one you chose-the government wins. btw- in ancient greek or hebrew, Government means mind control. governing the mind,when you study Truth Etymology. you may wish to Check out max Igan's website TheCrowHosue,his podcasts on yt are under ThecrowHouse as well, if your interested in solutions- he lists MANY. & shares the hidden information that is ... 04:46:36 ... going on -that the powers that be,hide from the masses. 04:46:45 v. well written & persuasive 04:46:46 yes i forgot to note the other bonus of clicking that link in that the comments are now predictably nuts 04:47:19 http://www.thenation.com/blog/174753/sword-drops-food-stamps, specifically 04:47:21 i am not excite 04:47:23 Truth Etymology 04:47:41 is that some sovereign citizen shit 04:47:48 05:44:56 kmc: well among the obvious answers, how about that they actually believe that 2-axis politics crap 04:47:51 05:46:30 elliott: Left & Right is the old tried & effective tactic of " Hegalian Dialectic. " 04:47:57 Bike: consistency 04:48:33 elliott: you said you were asleep and now you're not asleep!! 04:48:48 when did i say i was asleep 04:48:53 anyway this is especially annoying because SNAP is one of the least wasteful government programs that exist they have graphs for this 04:48:56 elliott: i dunno like a week ago 04:49:45 QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR 04:49:50 * Bike lastlog's elliott.*sleep, discovers just how often you fucking ask 04:49:53 (it's a lot) 04:50:04 20:37 < elliott> i am going to sleep 04:50:14 how long is your fuckin lastlog 04:50:30 Bike: should i sleep 04:50:31 so i can set it to be that long 04:50:45 13:18 < elliott> i sleep now. i can only pray gregor's voice survives the brutal night 04:51:04 this was in april. that's barely two months ago!! 04:51:25 how does your lastlog go back to fucking april 04:51:29 22:33 < elliott> um i dont sleep Bike you have a history of lack of history 04:51:39 that was march btw 04:51:48 come on what do i have to fix in my irssi 04:52:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:52:41 sleep 04:53:20 it's not even 6 yet 04:53:37 it's not even my dick yet 04:54:15 suddenly, dicks 04:54:35 when will it be your dick Bike 04:54:47 never. i've taken a vow. 04:54:57 Ah 04:57:01 it's really annoying how early it gets light 04:57:14 i prefer it to the early darkness in the winter 04:57:22 you should get black-out shades 04:57:39 kmc: agree re: early darkness 04:57:40 in college I slept under my desk in a kind of sleeping pod / coffin with thick curtains and wood walls 04:57:50 this was good if my roomates were playing loud music or having sex etc 04:57:55 well, the curtains are open right now because i didn't bother to shut them :V 04:58:04 try being less lazy 04:58:04 which i am sure correlates with me sleeping worse 04:58:10 kmc: i think that is the hardest thing 04:58:38 anyway the perfect season is one where it gets bright late and dark late, imo someone should invent it 04:59:04 that's called 'shifting your sleep schedule' 04:59:30 no 04:59:32 you don't understand 04:59:36 it's everyone else that should shift 04:59:45 `quote peple 04:59:46 116) Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple 04:59:48 http://25.media.tumblr.com/a97d40d2ad1395c4d197e5724c80121a/tumblr_mob8t8kQuB1r8se0eo1_1280.jpg pictured: kmc 04:59:52 ^ me 04:59:56 that was re: 116 not re: Bike 04:59:59 you're the bird 05:00:00 kmc: I know someone who did that kind of thing too, moved their mattress from above their desk to under their desk 05:00:07 I'd probably be claustrophobic but it sounds really nice 05:00:09 yeah it was reasonably popular 05:00:13 you get more storage space too 05:00:29 our dorm was the quiet dorm, and it had a thing people jokingly called the intercom 05:00:34 which was that sound travelled really really well 05:00:35 great now i'm going to be thinking about this when i look at dorms on monday 05:00:40 feel like this would be a good time to make a monqy sleeping on the floor joke but unfortunately he isn't here 05:00:40 so like if you made a lot of noise people would come breathe down your neck 05:00:42 so it was usually super quiet 05:00:46 what is the sleepabilitiy of this desk 05:00:52 haha 05:01:24 Fiora: i think that would make me paranoid to make any sound whatsoever 05:01:28 we also had some people reorganize rooms by function 05:01:34 a quiet room with a bunch of beds, a socializing room 05:01:44 well people mainly just didn't talk much in their rooms 05:01:46 Epsilon Theta at MIT takes this to the extreme 05:01:56 collectivize the dorms 05:01:59 they all sleep in a big room in the attic which is quiet and dark 24/7 05:02:04 wow 05:02:27 ok i'm organizing pdfs; what folder should i put a document about jihadist nerds dying in syria in 05:02:28 imo, communism 05:02:33 ~open poll~ 05:02:47 Bike: wow good horse_ebooks, is that a recent one 05:02:53 i "lost track" of horse_ebooks 05:02:59 i have no idea 05:03:25 well i assume the folders are Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath in which case I would say Chaos 05:03:27 geez, everyone in the dorm sleeping together? 05:03:40 hm ok 05:03:49 https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/344933381060038656 https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/344949349907849216 still goin wrong i see 05:03:52 uh 05:03:53 by wrong i mean strong 05:03:53 * Bike moves to Psychology (burn) 05:04:02 well typed horse ebooks do not go wrong 05:04:23 kmc: i think the badly-typed ones are usually funnier 05:04:54 "There was always a danger of side effects . Sometimes the side effects could be serious. Danger of" 05:05:05 haskell_ebooks 05:05:07 oh no 05:05:42 todo: add a markov chain generator to lambdabot 05:05:51 i really need to get mendeley or something ugh 05:06:00 FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLOING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLOING FOLOING BOXBOARDS B0X60ARDS BOXBOARDS BOXBOARDS 05:06:01 i have so much crap in a "Computer Engineering" folder 05:06:36 Bike: yo if you figure out a good thing to dump pdfs into let me know 05:06:40 i forget why i decided not to try mendeley 05:06:49 i think anyone reading the titles of all these papers would conclude that i was compulsive 05:07:00 my friend who proofreads / typesets papers says that mendeley kind of sucks but she doesn't know a better alternative 05:07:06 fuck 05:07:09 elliott: write one in haskell 05:07:19 my requirements: metadata, it fills in the metadata for me from a citeseerx link or something, tagging, full body text search 05:07:28 yeah that sounds pretty nice 05:07:29 that's pretty much it 05:07:59 i suddenly forget if citeseerx covers more than CS 05:08:10 also it should have a magic button to turn awful .ps files without selectable text into .pdfs with selectable text 05:08:14 maybe i'm thinking of ACM 05:08:25 god i have so many pdfs without selectable text 05:08:31 or worse, badly selectable text 05:08:33 imo war crime 05:08:33 citeseerx does all sciences I think? 05:08:42 even the dismal science? 05:08:43 yeah looks like it 05:08:43 Bike: i like the ones where it's badly auto-OCR'd behidn the scenes 05:08:46 so you copy it and it's just fuck 05:08:48 YES fuck that 05:09:16 sometimes it's just like, fuck you i'll type up this whole fucking 19th century book on bugs for you if it means i can paste without getting insane garbage 05:09:33 itt nerdy as shit 05:10:22 what's anything written before the 60s 05:10:29 "not my field" 05:10:42 ok 60s is wrong 05:10:51 and you're going to say babbage or something 05:10:54 and i'm oignoi tjoeri jdgk sgnfkjslztps`df 05:10:55 [zpcX}|VLkz;fsmknorhtJGKPSDVX|:CL/ko 05:10:56 lagoepF :|SZdlfkpGN]rgaw 05:10:57 ezsd pfdo]l[ \"DX>?C Bd 05:10:58 szg\;XVC">?,ml 05:11:01 de=sw3za]`[; 05:11:03 `l 05:11:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l: not found 05:11:06 ]df[\hg;'N? 05:11:07 I actually tried to read Babbage's Bridgewater treatise once. 05:11:14 (it was boring) 05:11:25 I have sometimes got the shitty OCR problem with like 60s papers on GC or shit like that 05:11:35 does anyone mind if i flood the channel with say 5-10 lines 05:11:39 of lambdabot command listing 05:11:42 didn't you already do that 05:11:43 oh 05:11:43 it would be emotionally helpful 05:11:49 well you're asleep so 05:11:51 i say go for it 05:11:52 great 05:11:53 lambdabot: @ 05:11:53 Maybe you meant: . 1337 ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s bf bid botsnack bouvier brain bug check choice-add choose cide clear-messages clear-topic compose define dequeue-topic 05:11:54 devils dice dict-help djinn djinn-add djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune free freshname gazetteer 05:11:54 get-shapr get-topic ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage haskellers help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma karma+ karma- 05:11:54 karma-all keal kind l33t learn leave leet let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply messages messages-loud messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 05:11:54 palomer part paste ping pinky pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pop-topic pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices push- 05:11:55 [3 @more lines] 05:11:57 @more 05:11:57 topic queue-topic quit quote rc reconnect remember repoint roll run sequence set-topic shift-topic shootout show slap smack spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker 05:11:59 time todo todo-add todo-delete type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless unshift-topic uptime url v vera version vote what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 05:12:01 yow 05:12:04 yow 05:12:06 yow 05:12:08 @shootout 05:12:08 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all 05:12:13 really glad yow gets its own line 05:12:14 oh i was thinking shooting 05:12:33 @localtime Bike 05:12:35 Local time for Bike is Wed Jun 12 22:12:34 2013 05:12:36 @help localtime-reply 05:12:36 time . Print a user's local time. User's client must support ctcp pings. 05:12:38 hm 05:12:42 oh no 05:12:42 @localtime-reply sdjfsdjf 05:12:45 what is this 05:12:50 @localtime elliott 05:12:50 what is what 05:12:53 localtime-reply 05:12:56 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:12:50 2013 05:13:00 it just CTCP TIMEs you 05:13:18 ah hm 05:13:21 yes i know that 05:13:21 but 05:13:23 @localtime elliott 05:13:25 @localtime-reply q 05:13:30 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:13:23 2013 05:13:33 hmm 05:13:39 @localtime elliott 05:13:39 @localtime-reply q 05:13:43 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:13:39 2013 05:13:43 wait is this like asyncronous. 05:13:47 yeah 05:13:53 that makes no fucking sense i love it 05:13:55 it uh 05:13:58 maps the ctcp reply to a privmsg 05:14:01 with @localtime-reply in front of it 05:14:03 fucking disgusting 05:14:07 @localtime-reply elliott 05:14:10 i should 05:14:11 fix that 05:14:14 i don't get it oh no 05:14:33 i wonder why i have this paper on tobacco viruses 05:15:06 they are hella studied viruses aren't they 05:15:13 "Evolution is the process by which the genetic structure of the population of an organism changes with time." well i guess whoever wrote this was really fucking desperate to fill out the abstract 05:15:17 yeah, the first in fact 05:15:25 whatshername who invented DNA studied them, too! it's cool 05:15:59 Filler is the process by which the abstract of a paper is progressively padded with redundant information which the intended audience of the paper is already aware of. 05:16:09 yeah. yeah, basically 05:16:10 weird how many important plants are in Solanaceae 05:16:17 wasn't something like that in SIGBOVIK 05:16:23 tomatos and potatoes and tobacco and DEADLY NIGHTSHADE 05:16:49 well you know what they say, large genera have diverse speciation 05:16:53 i'm reminded of irl tomacco 05:16:55 for some reason 05:17:01 do they say that 05:17:01 tom...acco? 05:17:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Products_produced_from_The_Simpsons#Tomacco 05:17:16 oh right 05:17:18 fantastic article title 05:17:38 kmc: it's in origin of species actually, it's pretty cool. darwin's like "yo without evolution how do you explain that big genera have more varieties" and the creationists were like "uhhhhhh" 05:18:17 "E-I-E-I-(Annoyed Grunt)" heh i forgot that was the title 05:19:13 that reminds me also that the genus Clostridium is responsible for botulism, tetanus, terrifying antibiotic-resistant hospital diarrhea disease, and salt-rising bread 05:19:27 elliott: probably not helping tomaccoism: the virus is actually called Tobamovirus 05:19:33 and gas gangrene 05:19:42 is that gangrene you get from gasoline 05:19:42 and 'pulpy kidney disease' in sheep 05:19:47 no, good guess tho 05:19:50 ok uh that sounds worse than the rest 05:19:59 Bike: barack tobamo 05:19:59 if you're a sheep.............. 05:20:01 i don't... i don't want pulpy kidneys 05:20:21 yo 05:20:22 i don't think you want gas gangrene or turbodiarrhea either 05:20:23 should i sleep 05:20:24 [that latin word i forget that means spread of disease between animal species] kmc!! 05:20:31 elliott: yes or i'll infect you with MRSA 05:20:42 i remember MRSA 05:20:43 good times 05:20:53 it still exists hth 05:20:57 memory resident software application 05:20:58 i also remember foot and mouth 05:20:59 good times 05:21:13 what about mad cow 05:21:33 i think that was "before my time"? 05:21:33 not sure 05:21:34 they have totally drug-resistant TB in india now 05:21:35 only true 90s kids remember rinderpest 05:21:55 cool, eradicated 05:22:07 it's "the other eradicated disease" yeah 05:22:27 i read http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312427654 recently 05:22:29 i think next on the list is some kind of worm i forget 05:22:29 good book 05:22:51 kind of a shame because Dracunculiasis is a pretty boss name 05:22:56 he talks about the campaign to eradicate polio and how they are always very close but it's almost impossible to finish the job 05:23:09 ugh that just reminds me of reports from pakistan 05:23:26 imo eradicate colds and headaches next twh 05:23:28 if a kid gets polio in an area where it's uncommon, the CDC sends like thousands of people there overnight to vaccinate everyone 05:23:42 colds kill half a million people every year but aren't on the list 05:23:44 such is disease 05:23:56 yeah well cars kill several million people every year 05:24:00 Bike: no no 05:24:02 i mean for selfish reasons 05:24:05 yes i know 05:24:09 i mean, i've never had rinderpest, personally. 05:24:18 I don't think you're a cow 05:24:19 eradicate disease in elliotts 05:24:27 Fiora: you'd be surprised! 05:24:37 the monomorphism restriction is a good way to avoid polio 05:24:39 elliott is a cow? 05:24:46 * elliott is a perfectly spherical cow 05:24:49 yes. 05:24:56 moo 05:25:03 apt-get moo 05:25:04 it's cool how i'd never heard of two of the next three diseases to be eliminated and i'll never get them 05:25:11 copumpkin: hey kmc is infringing on your trademark 05:25:15 wow yaws looks... really nasty, though 05:25:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yaws_01.jpg warning: ew 05:25:28 how ew are we talking 05:25:34 i'm about to sleep so i don't need awful mental images 05:25:44 not as ew as that picture of the guy with the necrotic leg 05:25:49 just lumpy 05:27:20 oh now i'm pissed about malaria vaccination again help 05:27:42 what about it 05:27:48 is that a thing? 05:27:59 er, measles i meant 05:28:05 oh 05:28:08 why are you pissed? 05:28:10 malaria is just bad all by itself 05:28:21 coppro: do you know about "the controversy" 05:28:27 oh was shachaf's statement an extremly oblique pun on "MMR"? 05:28:27 assume I don't 05:28:42 kmc: no, just "poly-o" 05:28:57 well some people think measles vaccines cause autism and so don't get them and then get measles 05:29:00 the end 05:29:22 anyway did you know there's such a thing as infectious blindness (in humans). elliott: do you need this to sleep 05:29:26 hey kmc why do books have forewords that are added years after the book is written and are only interesting to people who have already read the book 05:29:34 why not just put it at the end of the book 05:29:37 Bike: yes, elliott needs infectious blindness to sleep 05:29:48 shachaf: those suck 05:30:08 especially for real old novels where they explain the whole plot. 05:30:15 more like boreword amirite 05:31:58 maybe they should be postwords? 05:32:19 my copy of On the Road has a few of those. 05:32:33 is it better than The Road? 05:32:35 because that book is shit 05:33:09 "Why are we on a road?" "Because we have to be." "Okay." "Okay." "Okay." 05:33:14 there, I have summarized the entire book 05:33:20 waiting for godot's road 05:33:36 i haven't read The Road but I stopped reading On the Road because I got bored of him going on about random sex with run-on sentences 05:33:49 that doesn't sound quite as bad 05:33:51 how do you even have sex with a sentence 05:34:01 i dunno but he managed 05:34:06 (my copy is pre-editing. it shows) 05:34:31 fucking tweakers 05:34:38 hey Bike did you read three men in a boat 05:35:02 that's a book about a road.......made of water 05:35:03 maybe 05:35:04 also it's goo 05:35:08 d 05:35:20 that reminds me that the Solaris film is apparently freely watchable 05:35:25 except I don't understand Russian. 05:35:37 kmc can confirm that _Three Men in a Boat_ is good. 05:35:41 yep 05:35:46 confirmed 05:35:51 @google three men in a boat 05:35:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Men_in_a_Boat 05:35:51 Title: Three Men in a Boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:36:18 hm, looks good. 05:36:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:36:45 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/308-h.htm 05:37:25 oh, that's convenient. 05:37:33 guess i'll read it once i sort these pdfs. 05:37:37 thx 05:45:48 -!- itsy has joined. 05:48:03 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:22 imo http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/write_some_fucking_code.html is a bit unfair to the whole idea of reading about things you're learning about 06:02:16 yeah 06:02:29 ha, ha, sexually oriented jokes 06:02:34 that too 06:03:24 i thought monad tutorials were a thing that's so stale that every meta-commentary on meta-commentaries about them is already just as stale, etc 06:03:42 i wonder if this person has seen the burrito article 06:03:43 oh well 06:04:43 kmc: that reminds me should i watch _Brazil_ 06:04:51 should i put this paper about the grandmother hypothesis under Bio/ or Anthro/ 06:05:02 yes shachaf 06:05:04 i guess both the writers are anthropologists good enough 06:05:07 will it be depressing 06:05:11 yes 06:05:37 wow why do i have a chinual page 06:08:54 kmc: so when are you going to move to ca 06:08:58 before jul 1? 06:09:02 yeah 06:09:05 probably a few days before 06:09:11 ok 06:09:13 talking to some people now about maybe living at their house 06:09:28 mozilla offered me a really sweet deal including relocation expenses 06:09:53 nice. 06:09:56 i still don't understand why they have so much money..... 06:10:09 who, mozilla? 06:10:11 yes 06:10:25 i guess when 20% of the world uses your browser, and a browser is one of the most important programs, you can make a lot of money from it 06:10:37 I thought you said they were paid off by Google. 06:10:41 right 06:10:50 wow, i have a pdf reverse engineering final fantasy seven. 06:10:51 google has a lot more money hth 06:10:52 i don't understand intuitively how they can make so much from that 06:11:02 but I haven't like sat down and tried to crunch the numbers 06:11:27 well intuitively speaking, google has basically infinite money 06:11:32 also they don't have a mandate to pay dividends or grow in an aggressive shortsighted way 06:11:43 oh, mozilla isn't publically traded? 06:11:49 no, they are a non-profit foundation 06:11:54 wack 06:12:14 well technically Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit that owns the taxable Mozilla Corporation 06:12:25 it's a kind of odd structure 06:12:27 hey if you work at mozilla in sf maybe you'll meet $REDACTED 06:12:31 but not as sketchy as IKEA! 06:12:34 whosat 06:12:38 never mind i shouldn't talk about it 06:12:48 well that's not ominous at all 06:12:52 i remember someone tried to draw the corporate ownership chart at my finance job and it was wack 06:12:58 like every trading strategy had its own LLC 06:13:05 that were owned in some kind of complicated tree 06:13:09 jesus 06:13:10 Why? 06:13:14 and then my actual employer was just contracting services to them 06:13:23 that's some Accelerando shit 06:13:24 except my actual ACTUAL employer was a HR services provider 06:13:29 yeah exactly 06:13:52 i read Accelerando a few months before I started looking for jobs out of college, and I have to say that I took the HFT job in large part because of that book 06:13:52 np-complete problems of the future: find a hamiltonian cycle of your employer 06:13:56 :D :D 06:13:57 haha 06:14:05 i presume they are independent LLCs so that each strategy can go bankrupt on its own 06:14:15 that's, i don't know what that is. 06:14:24 some kind of bizarre evolutionary strategy 06:14:46 it's like if i had nine independent hands and each one was wired a different way, and if i lost a hand well whatever it probably sucked anyway 06:14:52 also e.g. some parts of the company-cluster were certified broker-dealers, which gets you certain rights and privileges in the markets 06:15:03 and some of the strategies had to be extra super legally separate so they got offices with doors. 06:15:16 were there people in the offices 06:15:33 a few 06:15:43 were the people publically traded 06:15:50 no afaik 06:16:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:16:11 Bike: can i buy shares of Bike 06:16:21 also some of the traders retained ownership of their trading code and had brought it from other firms 06:16:25 i bet somewhere there's a company where different strategies have their own LLCs and compete over employees in a private market 06:16:31 yes 06:16:47 shachaf: i bud, sorry 06:16:49 we sort of did that 06:16:53 nice 06:17:04 the 'general' pool of programmers was (at least at one point) seen mainly as a tool for recruiting people into strategies 06:17:07 should i keep these pdfs from a space school about Future Technology 06:17:14 and the idea that they would actually produce generally useful code was maybe secondary 06:17:32 heh 06:17:53 i have a paper on classical conditioning being sub-turing... 06:18:03 also the sysadmin group was its own little fiefdom and if you wanted good computers or whatever, you needed to have a lot of trade revenue so you could promise them big bonuses 06:18:16 that's uh, weird 06:18:23 yet they had none of the transparency or SLAs or such you would expect from an actual internal market 06:18:25 kmc: do all finance companies work this way 06:18:29 i think they were moving in that direction when I left 06:18:30 shachaf: no 06:18:43 shachaf: there's a spectrum between "unified company" and "shell for many independent strategies" 06:18:43 it's always sounded like yours was kind of dysfunctional 06:18:47 yeah it was 06:18:55 how was it dysfunctional? 06:18:58 at some firms, everyone can see all the code, and all the money is pooled deterministically 06:19:02 well see above, for one 06:19:15 also the sysadmin group was just bad at their jobs, but they couldn't be fired because Personal Connections 06:19:17 ok well i don't even know what "SLA" means, maybe i shouldn't ask 06:19:23 service level agreement 06:19:35 still no idea :P 06:19:39 like "we will provide 99.9% uptime or else you get $bignum" 06:20:00 a contract? 06:20:01 if you were actually buying trading infrastructure services from an external company, you would want one 06:20:04 or sometimes "we will provide 99.9% uptime or else you get $thedifferenceinhostingcostswhichisbasicallynothing" 06:20:07 but the internal sysadmin group didn't provide them 06:20:33 basically I'm saying they tried to sell their services internally, but in an opaque and unaccountable way 06:20:37 right 06:20:40 ALSO still waiting for an answer on the space thing 06:20:52 they were absurdly miserly about small things like RAM upgrades 06:20:56 Bike: delete all pdfs hth 06:20:57 for production high frequency trading machines 06:21:08 what about the paper about inter-universal teichmuller theory, which i will never, ever understand 06:21:10 and I have to think it wasn't just about the miniscule cost but about making pepole beg and bargain 06:21:13 also what about space 06:21:46 i have some pdfs from a mildly shady space technology oriented school, about terraforming and impact in African nations and such 06:21:58 not sure if i believe them well enough to keep them so why not ask people who really don't give a damn (that's you) 06:23:06 hm don't want to read these atm 06:24:12 "On 20 December 2011 Mozilla announced that the contract was once again renewed for at least three years to November 2014, at three times the amount previously paid, or nearly US$300 million annually" 06:24:21 from google? 06:24:23 yes 06:24:29 for making Google the default search engine in Firefox 06:24:42 that's an incredible payoff for just that 06:24:45 "due to competing interest from both Yahoo and Microsoft" 06:25:03 it is a staggering amount of money, but I don't really have a handle on how much Google makes from those searches 06:25:07 presumably they think it's a good deal 06:25:27 MSFT has loads of money and if FF switched to Bing, that would be a huge blow 06:25:56 so I guess my salary is effectively a byproduct of a Google / MSFT bidding war, at least until 2014 06:26:09 i can't really find this any weirder or less reputable than the way other tech companies get funded 06:26:20 I wonder why MSFT hasn't sued for antitrust yet 06:26:31 sued Google for bundling, or such? 06:26:40 bit of pot kettle there, don't you think ;) 06:26:40 cartels, or something 06:26:45 oh, definitely 06:26:47 see: patents 06:26:58 eh i don't think it's a cartel if Mozilla auctioned it off to the highest bidder 06:27:17 the pot calls the kettle black, and the chicken comes by and gets covered in soot 06:27:23 i'm not much of a lawyer though 06:27:28 before yelling at the pot and kettle about how black they are 06:27:34 kmc: i thought you were my attorney 06:27:36 that reminds me, did you know there's a word for the dual situation of a monopoly, where there's only one buyer? 06:27:38 then someone turns out the lights 06:27:40 think that's pretty cool 06:27:44 Bike: monopsony 06:27:48 yes 06:28:09 cool word 06:28:51 why_i_dont_have_a_girlfriend.pdf 06:28:52 kmc: your country's department of defence has a monopsony 06:28:56 yeah was about to say 06:28:58 and still manages to waste shit-tons of money 06:29:08 though not quite, because we export hella weapons, but that's also approved by the govt 06:29:24 i like the bit where the navy was the only one buying aircraft carriers and there's also only one corporation that can build aircraft carriers 06:29:26 they waste shit-tons of money because of regulatory capture I guess 06:29:29 free market in action right there 06:29:38 kmc: you also have like 300k people with top secret clearance 06:29:41 not so top really 06:29:43 it's not really 'waste', it's deliberately being funneled to for-profit companies 06:29:48 i'm sure there's a lot of actual waste too 06:30:00 just dump the money into the reactors 06:30:17 "Fair use for Tsar Bomba... The photograph belongs to Russian department of Atomic Energy Minatom. Introducing the picture on our server does not interfere with their ability to develop and market new nuclear devices" 06:30:25 man, you know what the world needs? 06:30:34 more cool ships? 06:30:37 a device which tells you which wiki is better: the one on wikia or the one that isn't 06:30:41 since everything has exactly two wikis 06:30:42 coppro: well there are higher clearance levels 06:30:46 coppro: but you're not allowed to know about them 06:31:00 yeah that would be pretty nice coppro 06:31:05 let's get elliott to invent it 06:31:11 doors in the rudders of big ships 06:31:15 coppro: The one on Wikia is worse by definition. hth 06:33:02 also the US classification system has secret/top secret and all but also has this weird sort of tag system 06:33:02 shachaf: well there's cosmic top secret 06:33:03 and gamma 06:33:19 particularly there are Special Interest Groups which you sometimes need classification to know about 06:33:20 shachaf: that's far from true 06:33:26 SIGBOVIK 06:33:37 CIA special interest group on bovikation 06:33:38 Bike: this is reasonably common 06:33:41 SIGKILL 06:33:46 I imagine that the US needs them more than other countries 06:33:55 but classified info is normally need-to-know 06:34:09 bovakistan 06:34:09 having clearance is necessary but far from sufficient 06:34:17 i just have no idea about other countries because i haven't looked 06:34:24 -!- nooga_ has joined. 06:34:30 US classification I know about because it's on wikileaks docs etc 06:34:33 the tagging system is, I assume, just a way of implementing 06:34:40 yeah 06:34:52 stuff like NOFORN = even if a foreign national has clearance don't show 'em 06:34:53 et 06:34:54 c 06:35:05 oh, that 06:35:10 NOFORN would be different, I think 06:35:23 since a foreign national even with the need to know couldn't be given NOFORN info 06:35:47 they do sometimes make exceptions i think but yeah 06:35:56 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:36:03 would i be allowed to see NOFORN things 06:36:25 shachaf: yeah they're all on wikileaks 06:36:32 'allowed' 06:36:41 allowed by wikileaks hth 06:38:30 i don't get classification at all. there was that pakistani guy who like invented nukes for them and then they decided you're not the right kind of muslim so fuck off and bam clearance gone? governments are crazy imo 06:39:41 i guess they did that with oppenheimer too. except w/o the muslim bit 06:40:07 -!- oleg has joined. 06:40:32 -!- oleg has changed nick to Guest17482. 06:41:07 did you know oppenheimer tried to poison his professor 06:41:16 not surprised 06:41:48 who hasn't, really 06:42:20 Sigh, why do people *still* spread monad misinformation? Just plain lies. 06:42:34 Maybe we should have a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to talk about the topic. 06:42:36 shachaf: you should classify monads 06:42:40 And then pass no one. 06:42:58 monads are not a crook 06:43:13 Bike: how are the pdfs going 06:43:24 are they misinformationing in #haskell 06:43:25 when I am president of the united states 06:43:29 I will classify the lunch menu 06:43:34 when i am king you will be first against the wall 06:43:47 so that anyone who tries to eat lunch in the white house without clearance is in violation of classification 06:43:52 that's treason, citizen 06:43:55 shachaf: moved a few dozen 06:44:12 i think i'm too sleepy to read this paper on optimizing away Y combinators, yes 06:44:14 kmc: no on hn comments on that article 06:44:18 which i looked up for some reason 06:44:30 that was a bad idea 06:44:31 is that reason because you are a masochist 06:44:36 could there be any other reason 06:44:58 um 06:45:12 this paper is on kolmogorov complexity in presburger arithmetic 06:45:17 what the fuck am i even doing with this 06:45:18 i'm a particular variety of masochist, sure 06:45:20 who am i 06:45:55 "Taming Wildcards in Java's Type System" ok strongly considering the deleting all pdfs option 06:46:07 elliott and i have a sort of sadism-masochism relationship 06:46:24 but i think he started it 06:47:13 "Hobbes, Rawls, Nussbaum, Buchmann, and All Seven of the Virtues" 06:47:15 kmc: this thread is p. great 06:47:23 a question: "what is a monad, really? 06:47:37 a miserable little pile of morphisms 06:47:40 an answer that talks about bind taking the value out of the monad and wrapping it in another monad 06:47:41 what is monad, baby don't hurt me 06:47:46 graaah 06:47:48 an answer that talks about composition of adjoint functors 06:48:04 15:32 < kmc> you can take the kmc out of the #haskell but you can never take the #haskell out of the kmc 06:48:06 this is the ideal thread of bad explanations 06:48:26 sucks how unintuitive "a thing that follows these rules" is an explanation apparently 06:49:24 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noodles 06:49:28 god yes 06:49:39 pbr.pdf has surprisingly little to do with hipsters 06:50:01 `run echo "let's focus on the real question: should i eat more nooodles" | rnooodl 06:50:02 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noooodles 06:50:07 `run echo "let's focus on the real question: should i eat more nooodles" | rnooodl 06:50:09 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noooooooodles 06:50:13 that's more like it 06:50:27 i like that PBR's claim to have won a Blue Ribbon is highly dubious 06:50:40 like the ice cream shop down the street that says «"The World's Best Ice Cream" -- New York Times» on the window 06:50:48 toscanini's? 06:50:50 yes 06:50:56 i was there! 06:50:58 i ate ice cream 06:51:02 was it the wordl's best 06:51:11 the burnt caramel ice cream was not to my taste 06:51:20 the burnt:caramel ratio was too high 06:51:22 shachaf will just have to eat every oether ice cream in the world to be sure 06:51:31 do they have good ice cream in sf 06:51:48 "The Analogy Between Physics and Topology" it's way too midnight for this shit 06:51:57 i was at that place with the liquid nitrogen ice cream 06:51:58 i went to the Three Twins location in Lower Haight but then it burned down :/ 06:52:01 prepared in front of your very eyes 06:52:03 i think elliott linked me this one actually. fuck you, elliott. read your fucking hott 06:52:25 Bike: oh are you looking for papers to read 06:52:27 i have some 06:52:31 no for fuck's sake 06:52:32 Notice: Undefined index: user in include() (line 272 of /home/content/48/8614948/html/sites/all/themes/fusion/fusion_starter/node--scoop-shop.tpl.php). 06:52:37 do they have good frozen yogurt in downtown mountain view 06:52:47 it was ok 06:52:49 colorblindness in cuttlefish 06:52:52 more about the toppings, imo 06:52:53 this will be relevant to my life 06:52:59 Bike: they can see polarization can't they 06:53:15 yeah probably 06:53:28 also can't they mimick colors? can't be totally color blind 06:53:37 this paper is about literally exactly that 06:53:43 well, good 06:53:50 more comments: "learning Haskell verges on learning mathematical concepts at times and learning monads is definitely one of those times" 06:54:01 lol 06:54:02 what's the tl;dr 06:54:24 of the paper? i refer you to my "oh god it's midnight why am i doing this (dong this)" 06:54:32 lemme look again 06:55:08 shachaf: wow you're saying programming is related to math? incredible 06:55:29 i guess their answer is "yep definitely colorblind but that camo thing sure is weird" 06:55:33 @quote programm.*math 06:55:34 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:34 good science 06:55:36 they suggest it might have to do with perception of contrast 06:55:39 @quote programm.*math 06:55:40 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:42 hmm 06:55:43 @quote programm.*math 06:55:43 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:56 @quote programming.*math 06:55:56 kmc says: programming is inherently mathematical. furthermore, the connection between haskell and maths is overblown by people who don't understand the language 06:56:02 kmc stop it with the quotes 06:56:29 kmquotable 06:56:41 @quote math.*programm 06:56:41 TRWBW says: category theory gives math a bad name. sorta like functional programming does with computer science. 06:56:49 oh TRWBW 06:56:56 is TRWBW still around in ##math 06:57:08 hey i have a paper on Blue Gene simulations of cats, awesome 06:57:30 kmc: I like how that quote is in the quote database twice. 06:57:42 how can you tell 06:57:55 actually don't answer that it can be a mystery 06:57:55 shachaf: today I told people that you need monads to do IO the same way you need ZFC set theory to do 2+2 06:58:09 Bike: There's a double-spaced and single-spaced version. 06:58:15 huh that's not such a bad analogy really 06:58:28 what's New Foundations in this analogy 06:58:36 @forget kmc Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:58:36 Done. 06:58:41 thanks Bike 06:58:43 kmc: I saw. 06:58:51 Reasonably analogy for that argument. 06:59:11 tomorrow's headlines: haskell requires programmers to know zfc to write hello world 06:59:16 yes 06:59:26 "[world's best] really [...] not [...] bad analogy" -- Bike 06:59:26 well sorry actually 06:59:39 i said you need *category theory* for IO the same way etc 06:59:49 Right. 07:00:00 you need to understand the stdlib thing named "Monad" but that's not such a big deal 07:00:01 no one retweeted you 07:00:03 :( 07:00:09 you could do it 07:00:15 i wish i used tweeter so i could retwit you 07:00:39 i also complained about #haskell 07:00:43 my client doesn't show replies i guess 07:00:44 I saw. 07:00:44 you probably saw that too 07:00:47 Maybe I should send your quote in to HWN. 07:00:56 nobody retwerped that either 07:00:58 which one 07:01:07 https://twitter.com/hwnquotes 07:01:18 imo retweet your own tweet and stick @HWNQuotes in front of it 07:01:21 to be honest i'm not sure i'd want to see this argument though 07:01:21 that'll show 'em 07:02:06 btw this is the thread i was talking about if anyone else has masochistic tendencies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5872002 07:02:09 arguing about programming languages is like negative my things 07:02:36 arguing about programming languages is like using similes 07:02:57 oh shit i have a homotopy type theory paper help 07:03:06 Bike: rm -f -f -f hth 07:03:33 site-name_-_title_-_mod-yyyy-mod-mm-mod-dd.pdf 07:03:34 hott seems "p. cool actually" 07:03:57 kmc: Did I ever ask you about that thing I was trying to figure out with inequality? 07:04:06 Type inequality. 07:04:14 no 07:04:34 ok finishing this tomorrow thank's for playing 07:04:46 tia 07:05:02 In Haskell10 + RankNTypes, something like "forall p. p Char -> p Bool" is completely independent, as far as I can tell. 07:05:24 I.e. foo :: forall p. p Char -> p Bool and bar :: (forall p. p Char -> p Bool) -> Void are both unprovable (without ⊥ etc.) 07:05:55 GADTs and TypeFamilies both let you prove bar, but those are huge and slightly dubious extensions. Is there a smaller extension that'll let you prove bar? 07:06:16 ((forall p. p A -> p B) is Leibniz type equality between A and B.) 07:07:24 *nod* 07:08:01 The way GADTs give it to you is more or less by omitting a warning when a GADT pattern match would lead to a unification error. 07:08:30 It seems, well, reasonable, but an axiom-via-not-printing-a-warning seems kind of suspicious. I'd like to see it stated explicitly somehow. 07:09:32 Did you get edwardkomments about affine types? 07:09:40 no 07:10:08 ok, I wrote the appropriate GADT 07:10:23 data Foo t where FooChar :: Foo Char; FooBool :: Void -> Foo Bool 07:10:32 eq :: (forall p. p Char -> p Bool) -> Void; eq f = case f FooChar of FooBool v -> v 07:10:35 is that what you had in mind? 07:10:44 Right. That's how you do it with GADTs. 07:10:54 and where do you think it should warn? 07:11:27 I don't necessarily think it should warn -- it's just that this "axiom" is implemented via not warning about the fact that you're not matching FooChar. 07:11:28 btw i decided to have beer instead of more noodles 07:11:33 you fool 07:11:44 I'd like to see it stated explicitly. 07:11:49 why would you match FooChar? the type doesn't match 07:11:55 Right. 07:12:06 OK, imagine you tried to emulate GADTs with Leibniz equality. 07:12:08 you want something like «case f FooChar of FooBool v -> v; FooChar ()» 07:12:16 like an absurd pattern in Agda? 07:12:22 btw I may have misremembered the syntax 07:12:26 Right, but you need a proof that it's absurd. 07:12:27 Bike: i regret nothing 07:12:31 And that proof is Is Char Bool -> Void 07:12:35 shachaf: ah, and... yeah 07:12:35 And you can't write that without GADTs. 07:12:54 newtype Is a b = Is (forall p. p a -> p b) 07:12:57 agda has that notion of type equality built in though, right? 07:13:07 data Foo t = FooChar (Is t Char) | FooBool (Is t Bool) Void 07:13:17 That doesn't give you the same power as the GADT. 07:13:18 this is your GADTs-via-Leibniz? 07:13:20 Yes. 07:13:22 ok 07:13:26 this is a funny conversation to see after "you don't need math for haskell" :P 07:13:30 haha 07:13:38 but it isn't Haskell!!!!!! it's Haskell + RankNTypes + GADTs 07:13:41 ;P 07:13:50 totes diff 07:13:58 it's not really "needed" either... 07:14:05 it's needed if you want to do specific cool things 07:14:37 "you need math to use pencil and paper! look at those people writing those complicated equations there!" 07:14:46 you need fancy stuff if you want a far higher degree of static checking than other languages 07:14:53 if you want only moderately higher degree, you don't 07:15:11 the ":P" meant that wasn't supposed to be a serious criticism of either thing, just saying 07:15:14 moderately higher degree... is that like a master's 07:15:14 i know 07:15:21 i'm obliged to respnod though 07:15:25 nerd 07:15:41 kmc: Anyway, in HoTT you actually *do* get equality of isomorphic types. 07:15:56 I.e. you can write foo :: Is Word8 Int8 or something like that. 07:15:59 -!- Guest17482 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:21 So HoTT is incompatible with GADTs in GHC, because it always assumes inequality. 07:17:05 explain the last bit? 07:17:20 I mean that it assumes Char will never be equal to Bool. 07:17:28 In this case it really never will, because they're different sizes. 07:17:43 But if you had an isomorphism then you might be able to provide actual equality. 07:17:52 (NB: I don't actually understand HoTT.) 07:18:09 hm 07:18:12 really 07:18:26 By the way, GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving is also related to this. It uses unsafeCoerce as evidence that a newtype and its underlying type are equal. 07:18:31 so in HoTT i can do (Word8 -> Int8) -> (Int8 -> Word8) -> Is Word8 Int8 ? 07:18:42 except I also prove it's a legit isomorphism, somehow? 07:18:47 Well, you'd probably want an actual isomorphism, not just a pair of functions. 07:18:48 Yes. 07:18:52 I think that's the general idea. 07:19:26 So I think GND is actually safe in Haskell10 + RankNTypes. 07:19:37 It's only when you add GADTs or TypeFamilies that it breaks. 07:19:41 interesting 07:19:51 not surprising though 07:20:09 my intuition is that GADTs and TFs let you use types less "parametrically" than is generally assumed in Haskell 07:20:13 and that's the source of a lot of trouble 07:20:19 Right. 07:20:49 http://joyoftypes.blogspot.com/2012/08/generalizednewtypederiving-is.html says he couldn't figure out a way to do it with just Leibniz equality. But I think it's actually not possible, because there's something missing there. 07:21:04 GADTs with weaker Leibniz-style equality would probably be less useful. 07:22:36 Anyway what I'd like is to see the extra power that GADTs give you stated explicitly somehow. 07:22:50 But talking about inequality is annoying. 07:24:06 a tweet i am not drunk enough to send: "Haskell sucks because it requires you to learn some math to do things that are simply impossible in other languages" 07:24:33 the solution is more beer hth 07:24:38 out of beer 07:24:40 switching to cider 07:25:36 kmc: you would get so many replies about turing completeness 07:25:40 it would be great 07:25:46 :3 07:25:51 i would 07:25:58 uh kmc i can just use Perl to write a slime mold emulator that runs haskell 07:27:24 programming languages is a HCI problem 07:27:28 here's another tweet i won't send 07:27:39 instead i will just drink more and watch Mad Men 07:27:47 good decision 07:32:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:37:57 my alcohol tolerance is pretty ridiculous 07:38:35 kmc has a ∞-tolerance policy 07:38:39 :D 07:38:44 i'm a big white dude, you see 07:38:56 also i drink often 07:39:35 should i drink often 07:40:02 eh 07:40:27 should i drink occasionally 07:40:31 probably 07:40:54 i often have a few drinks, but I occasionally get properly drunk 07:40:59 see above re: tolerance 07:42:31 writing drm code must be unpleasant 07:42:34 alcohol is overrated because it's the one widely accepted legal fun drug 07:42:37 fighting a battle you know you'll lose 07:42:45 but it's still worth doing from time to time 07:43:15 shachaf: eh, or you see it like any other security measure, as something to keep out attackers of a certain skill level for a certain amount of time 07:43:28 Possibly. 07:43:37 but I agree that DRM on content is pretty hopeless, because it takes only one person to put it on BitTorrent 07:43:50 I don't understand why Hulu bothers with DRM on some shows, when those same shows can be recorded over the air 07:44:05 things like locking down video game consoles to signed software are less hopeless 07:44:15 it might stand for 6-18 months and that's enough for a meaningful advantage 07:44:23 same with anti-reverse-engineering tech 07:44:39 if you can make your competitors spend a few million or delay them by a few months, that can be a big deal 07:44:39 I suppose some people explicitly have it as their goal to keep the DRM uncracked for a few weeks or some period of time in which the majority of sales are usually made. 07:46:42 * kmc is picking through a big bin of diamond-cut shredder shit and is having fun identifying the source documents 07:46:56 ... why 07:47:09 oops here's a diamond that contains a full 1D barcode 07:47:14 coppro: boredom 07:47:35 it's stuff i shredded 07:48:40 one thing I miss from college is easy access to a fireplace for document destruction 07:50:13 in an hour of need any space can serve as a fireplace 07:50:23 s/spac/plac/ 07:51:02 that is true 07:51:19 but urban areas have these busybodies who show up and try to put out fires 07:51:31 v. rude 07:51:47 and if you do it on purpose you get banned 07:51:49 the ultimate ban 07:51:51 the ur-ban 07:52:59 maybe i should be banned from this channel 07:53:16 i heard kmc was moving to sf because it was an herban area 07:53:37 no don't banchaf :'( 07:53:40 shachaf: yes 07:53:47 not the only reason but... a reason 07:54:51 somebody in SF was complaining about how they were "flying to a place where drugs are illegal" 07:55:07 are you going to get a what'sitcalled medical thing 07:55:28 probably 07:55:58 then i can visit dispensaries and get all pretentious about different strains of weed 07:56:17 or have it delivered to you 07:56:23 true 07:56:28 p. soon Bike can do the same thing of course 07:57:24 cool 08:00:23 is Bike actually moving to CA 08:01:03 no 08:01:06 i meant the whole WA thing 08:07:24 oh 08:07:25 sure 08:07:32 won't even need a 'green card' though 08:09:34 right 08:11:00 are drugz as good as drugz jokes 08:11:49 hard to compare 08:12:33 what about drugz jokes......on drugz 08:13:06 need to be in san jose at 11 tomorrow 08:18:58 why 08:19:34 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:58 '--sparc2.2: If an array was created on a SPARC machine with a 2.2 Linux kernel patched with RAID support, the superblock will have been created incorrectly, or at least incompatibly with 2.4 and later kernels. Using the --sparc2.2 flag with --examine will fix the superblock before displaying it.' i love computers 08:22:32 meeting people 08:22:38 hey kmc you should read `olist it's good 08:22:39 what kind of people 08:25:49 san jose people 08:25:56 hey someone unfollowed me on twitter 08:26:01 oh no 08:26:07 shachaf do you have cool friends 08:26:26 gasp it was @darinmorrison 08:27:37 hmm how do i tell 08:29:37 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-utils/2010-10/msg00002.html thanks gnu time 08:30:56 what's two (binary) orders of magnitude between friends 08:31:09 or 12? whatever 08:31:31 this cider allegedly pairs with shrimps and cheeses 08:31:43 don't like shrimps :( 08:32:06 oh i think that icon means 'seafood generally' 08:32:47 you don't have to eat seafood just because you drink the cider 08:32:54 not speaking of shrimps did you see http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_lobster?printable=true 08:33:45 have not read it yet 08:33:58 oh did i link it before 08:34:43 "... One visitor would argue that the celebration involves a whole lot more." is this article about drugs? 08:36:17 no but i know of it generally 08:36:25 one of DFW's essay collections is named after this essay 08:48:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:10:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:24:06 http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2013-June/017369.html Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem proved in Isabelle 09:30:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:37:15 kmc: do you know about count-min sketch 09:37:21 no 09:37:50 it's a thing like a bloom filter 09:38:25 reading 09:39:37 cool 09:41:52 thanks 09:42:09 wikipedia only says how to use it for counts, but I guess it can be used for other things? 09:51:06 * kmc → sleep 09:53:39 I don't know much more about it than you presumably do now. :-) 09:54:01 kmc: •Privacy preserving computations ensure that multiple parties can cooperate to compute a function of their data while only learning the answer and not anything about the inputs of the other participants. Roughan and Zhang demonstrate that the Count-Min Sketch can be used within such computations, by applying standard techniques for computing privacy preserving sums on each counter independently [15]. 09:56:51 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:30 -!- itsy has joined. 10:15:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:27:13 hmm, the norwegian seafood council wants to introduce a special swedish word for salmon from norway 10:27:27 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:27:59 -!- itsy has joined. 10:51:28 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:53:53 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:12:53 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:13:13 -!- itsy has joined. 11:40:58 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:47:15 Grumble grumble. "Editing (including deleting points) is not supported for this geometry type. Editing is only supported on lines and polygons." 11:47:30 Apparently what I recorded with GPSLogger is a "tour" instead of a "line". 11:51:09 Or possibly a "track". 11:51:18 But a "path" is a "line". 12:10:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:23:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:29:15 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:57:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:07:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:27:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:31:24 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:06:47 -!- nooga_ has joined. 14:13:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:16:37 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:17:04 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:17:50 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:18:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:22:43 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:51:49 -!- Bike has joined. 15:14:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:18:38 aaaaaaaaaaaaah 15:20:01 elliott, I like the new lambdabot messagey thing 15:20:23 yw 15:20:25 not my doing 15:20:58 hey elliott read that book or whatever 15:22:29 book?? 15:23:59 mnoqy: the hott book 15:24:04 i'm getting Bike to remind me to read it 15:24:34 ah 15:24:45 i dont have a hott book but maybe i should get one 15:25:08 mnoqy: https://github.com/HoTT/book 15:25:11 its a "work in progress" aiui 15:25:42 i'll put it on my list 15:29:40 I'll put it on two lists, which I'll then immediately delete. 15:43:26 Hott Book 15:45:31 -!- nooga_ has joined. 15:46:42 bike already did that one nodl 15:52:38 how is the weather in hexham now? 15:53:44 Pleasantly warm 15:53:47 ~metar EGNT 15:53:58 ... 15:54:06 It was raining at lunchtime, though 15:54:21 yes its rainy but warm here too 15:54:34 39°C next week 15:54:44 If hagb4rd is in Prudhoe or something, I swear to god... 15:55:29 i should visit hexham 15:55:31 but then 15:55:35 visit neither of taneb/elliott 15:55:55 Didn't someone do that a couple of years ago 15:55:56 Well 15:56:01 People probably do that all the time 15:56:05 But someone in this channel 15:56:13 oerjan or fizzie or someone 15:56:43 should organize an #esoteric meetup 15:56:53 where nobody actually meets up 15:56:59 they're just all somewhere in hexham 16:01:41 that sounds dangerous 16:01:51 what if someone actually meets up 16:01:54 what was the command to calculate Celsius to Fahrenheit? 16:02:08 `sanetemp 0 16:02:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found 16:02:13 Not that 16:02:16 `frink ? 16:02:29 and then? 16:02:38 `frink 100 celsius -> fahrenheit 16:02:47 Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Unknown symbol "fahrenheit" \ Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 100 celsius (undefined symbol) -> fahrenheit (undefined symbol) 16:02:52 `frink 100 degrees celsius -> fahrenheit 16:02:57 help 16:02:58 Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Unknown symbol "fahrenheit" \ Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 1.7453292519943295767 celsius (undefined symbol) -> fahrenheit (undefined symbol) 16:03:14 im going to sleep 16:03:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:06:00 i wonder: do you english folks use celsius fahrenheit or kelvin or what? 16:07:43 i use celsius 16:08:00 so, it's common in UK? 16:09:51 > 100 * 9 / 5 + 32 16:09:52 212.0 16:09:54 HTH 16:10:00 hagb4rd: no, just elliott 16:10:36 thx coppro.. i see 16:56:31 They measure in Réaumur. 16:58:01 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130613-reaumur.jpg -- as seen in a park few days back. 16:59:13 (That was in Switzerland, though almost in Italy.) 16:59:52 (Okay, it's kind of hard to make out the label, but that's what it is.) 17:01:28 @google Réaumur 17:01:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale 17:01:28 Title: Réaumur scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 17:02:37 "Its only modern use is in the measuring of milk temperature in cheese production." Weird stuff. 17:03:21 weird indeed 17:04:14 Did we work out the answers to itsy's riddle? 17:04:48 i'd have given it a shot but i didn't have any time 17:07:26 @messages 17:09:42 I think I got it but I can't remember how I got it 17:15:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:32:58 -!- conehead has joined. 17:46:15 "Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss imagine Holmes as, well, the Doctor, somehow a central figure in the battle between good and evil even if they can't quite articulate why or how." i am so glad i found this blog 17:48:49 Phantom_Hoover: what blog? 17:55:28 holy shit, Elementary actually sounds good 17:57:07 Phantom_Hoover: i keep meaning to watch it if only for the malbolge 17:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: well, and also to piss off people who complain it's a ripoff of the bbc sherlock 17:57:42 it sounds better than bbc sherlock; frankly i'm gobsmacked 17:58:11 Phantom_Hoover: does it really surprise you that something could be better than a moffat show 17:59:28 dude it's an american modernisation of a british classic 17:59:36 does that really not fill you with foreboding 18:00:06 well, admittedly 18:06:50 I think in early episodes they tried too hard to appeal to the shippers 18:07:13 you... watch elementary? 18:07:26 On occasion, not every episode 18:07:27 In fact 18:07:32 About three episodes 18:16:34 -!- disadep has joined. 18:16:41 hello 18:17:02 Hi 18:17:06 `welcome disadep 18:17:08 disadep: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:17:29 I came here from wiki 18:17:36 :D 18:18:14 -!- FreeFull has quit. 18:18:16 I became interested in esoteric languages recently 18:18:45 Oh? 18:20:26 I even created one 18:20:36 and I was wondering if it's Turing-complete 18:20:51 is there a good way to find out if it really is? 18:21:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:23:18 There's a knack to it 18:23:31 DL? 18:24:00 yep 18:24:38 -!- disadep has changed nick to disaderp. 18:25:53 I don't think that is Turing complete. Is the full spec online anywhere? 18:26:16 wait a minute 18:27:19 consider http://esolangs.org/wiki/Computational_class#Proofs_of_computational_class 18:27:23 here is the list of avaliable functions: http://pastebin.com/7PMHWQJh 18:29:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:31:35 -!- Bike has joined. 18:33:44 disaderp: have you defined any comparison operators? 18:34:16 there is a function Cmp() that compares two ints or two bools 18:34:23 ah 18:35:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:37:12 http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-hacks/2013-June/000552.html 18:38:53 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:39:36 kmc: disgusting. great 18:47:09 `zalgo "hi" 18:47:40 No output. 18:47:55 `run echo "hi" | zalgo 18:47:57 h̞͐iͤ͘ 18:48:57 `run echo "hi" | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo 18:49:00 ḩ̬̰̘̀็i͙̹ͬ̄͝͡ 18:59:56 A knot diagram can be interpreted as a network of resistors, where each crossing is a resistor with resistance either 1 or -1. 19:00:19 Then the Reidemeister moves are all valid ways of rewriting a resistor network. 19:02:48 Specifcally: adding a resistor between an existing node and a new node (R1), adding a resistor between a node and itself (R1), replacing a node with three nodes connected by resistors of resistance 1 and -1 in series (R2), adding resistors of resistance 1 and -1 in parallel to any gap (R2), and the wye-delta transform (R3), and the reverse of all these. 19:08:39 Conversely, any planar resistor network where resistors have resistance 1 and -1 can be interpreted as a knot diagram. 19:10:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:11:07 g2g 19:11:08 bye 19:11:18 Adi(o with acute accent)s. 19:11:26 -!- disaderp has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:12:16 It's not obvious what it means for two resistor networks to be equivalent. 19:16:40 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:17:26 -!- esimmers has joined. 19:17:36 Help Your country get to the top in the virtual world of E-sim. Become a businessman, military leader or a mighty president. Join for FREE now: http://secura.e-sim.org/lan.3355/ 19:17:36 -!- esimmers has left. 19:18:01 is this channel like a hot hangout now 19:18:15 help your country get k-lined 19:19:33 elliott, can you think of anywhere in Hexham that prints designs onto T-shirts? 19:19:40 nope 19:19:47 Corbridge? 19:20:00 nope 19:20:02 :( 19:20:03 isn't there a cheapass way to do it yourself 19:20:15 Bike, you need some fancy paper which I can't find 19:21:37 http://www.thomsonlocal.com/Screen%20printers/in/Hexham/ it appears the answer is no 19:21:54 according to the almighty 19:21:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:22:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:23:03 #esoteric must have finally "made it" to be noticed by freenode spammers. 19:23:27 hooray! 19:24:07 probably that wsj piece that's coming any day now 19:24:40 retroactively attracting spam 19:24:44 the wsj's powers are great 19:25:42 @google esoteric wall street journal 19:25:43 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204517204577046381261300406.html 19:25:43 Title: Test for Bonds Backed by Esoteric Assets - WSJ.com 19:26:04 nice 19:26:05 This channel: full of assets. 19:26:18 And other things starting with "ass". 19:26:27 assassins 19:26:34 assailants 19:26:40 Assyrians. 19:26:40 bro are you esoteric 'cos i have a turkey baster and you have... assets... yes 19:27:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:35:09 so um. this really isn't #esoteric material but (I guess C++ is kind of esoteric <.<) if I have an Apple class and a Banana class and both classes contain functions that reference each other, how do I do a forward class declaration so that I don't get undeclared Banana messages? 19:36:09 does just "class Banana;" work or is there something more elaborate I'm missing? 19:37:14 oh, maybe that would? I have no idea, I am terrible at this 19:38:08 don't worry, nobody has yet figured out how to not be terrible at C++ 19:38:43 yay, it works, thanks 19:39:00 the programming ethos: just guess and hope it works (it does) (sometimes) 19:39:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Undeclared Banana messages | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | SEUTA KEULAEPEUTEU | nid wyf yn y swyddfa. 19:40:00 is that underhanded thing still ongoing? 19:40:13 Fiora: :) 19:41:10 oerjan: "the deadline is July 4th" 19:41:34 oerjan: imo you should read this homotopy type theory book for me 19:41:46 i'm w/ that guy 19:43:13 is homotopy type theory actually consistent the little i've noticed about makes it look like it declares almost everything equal 19:43:22 *about it 19:44:02 two equals three, up equals down, anarchy reigns. such is life under homotopy 19:44:18 -!- atehwa_ has changed nick to atehwa. 19:46:21 oerjan: it declares identity and equivalence equal 19:46:30 oerjan: that is, an isomorphism between A and B implies equality of A and B 19:46:43 and the conjecture is that the resulting system is still computable. 19:46:56 (where A and B are types, of course) 19:46:57 hm i guess that just means working in a skeleton category, or something 19:46:58 conjecture? 19:47:06 oerjan: well the idea is to enrichen equality 19:47:09 rather than weakening isomorphism 19:47:26 Bike: yes, it's not been shown that you can always compute the equality substitutions using the axiom away 19:47:36 anyway this book is literally 500 pages. 19:48:20 is the axiom called 'away' i'm confused 19:48:25 is 500 pages supposed to be a lot 19:48:54 these days i have trouble with 5 19:48:55 Bike: as opposed to getting blocked on substitution of an equality using the univalence axiom 19:49:04 right so beyond me 19:49:04 imo 500 pages is a lot. 19:50:12 Bike: i.e., a program can reduce to something like "rewrite foo : ...stuff involving A and its terms... to foo : ...stuff involving B and its terms... by univalence (...isomorphism between A and B...)" 19:50:42 and it's not proven that you can always get "past" that rewrite to actually computing foo however it's defined, is my understanding. 19:51:03 livin on the edge 19:52:07 my new laptop is too cold for my lap :( 19:52:58 oerjan: try compiling ghc hth 19:54:10 civilization 5 is really good at making mine overheat 19:54:16 it's fun too! two birds 19:54:39 birds? 19:54:45 elliott: ☺ 19:54:55 Bike: have you ever killed birds w/ stones 19:55:02 no wtf 19:55:06 why would id 19:55:12 analogies for people who are cruel to animals: imo the best analogies? 19:55:20 is this some kind of sicko british schoolboy thing 19:55:25 yes, you got it 19:55:31 we... play civilisation 5 19:55:35 (!!) 19:55:49 well you don't have to use such analogies, there's more than one way to skin a cat 19:55:50 disgusting 19:55:54 * Fiora eagerly awaits the new expansion 19:56:02 btw did you know the dutch expression is 19:56:08 "hit two flies with one swat" 19:56:18 it's cute 19:56:30 that's also the norwegian expression hth 19:56:37 great, cruelty to birds /and/ bugs 19:56:39 nice 19:56:44 assholes 19:57:06 12:56 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE is now known as purr 19:57:23 Phantom_Hoover, is friendship mouse still about? 19:57:50 ph became friendship mouse 19:58:55 yes 19:59:01 what's this about civ 5 19:59:18 it involves killing animals 20:02:41 I don't know ._. 20:03:00 #esoteric civ 5 succession game 20:05:48 oooh, succession games 20:05:54 I remember seeing lots of logs of those for civ 4, they looked really fun 20:06:08 i don't have civ 5 though :( 20:13:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:14:04 But it's only [an amount of money]. 20:15:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:16:42 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 20:24:10 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:25:43 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 20:45:12 what's New Foundations in this analogy <-- uniqueness types hth 20:45:28 yeah i considered saying that 20:45:59 Fiora, we do a Dwarf Fortress one 20:46:06 Unless elliott has lost it 20:56:51 -!- itsy has joined. 20:57:40 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/lysurus_cruciatus.html squid mushroom 20:59:26 how long did you spend weeping with joy before you linked that 20:59:51 not long 21:05:46 "No, you don't install things by typing 'sudo easy_install thing' into the Python REPL. Not only is that not a console, you're on Windows." 21:11:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:13:46 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 21:15:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:20:25 -!- sacje has joined. 21:24:29 wait 21:24:31 what 21:24:45 that thing about the wii fit trainer being in the next super smash bros wasn't a joke? 21:24:58 No, it's awesome. 21:25:09 There's a villager from Animal Crossing too. 21:25:11 i don't know what to think any more 21:25:32 that they'll go well with game and watch? 21:26:01 game and watch was funny because he was a one-off! 21:26:14 wasn't he in two games 21:26:28 Yeah, I think he was in Melee and Brawl 21:26:30 a TWo Off 21:27:07 i guess there was rob as well 21:27:22 pew pew 21:27:28 but this is just getting silly! 21:27:51 dude it's SSB 21:28:01 it is the silliest 21:28:07 hth 21:28:09 it's getting so silly 21:28:11 I was playing Brawl this evening 21:28:20 I completely changed my control scheme for the hell of it 21:28:29 the wii fit trainer is awesome 21:28:31 SSB tourney people are hilarious, on that note 21:28:35 everything about her is pretty great 21:28:39 fox only, final destination, etc 21:28:45 like, it means that now, super smash brothers has a 21:28:48 no 21:28:49 stop 21:28:53 * Fiora takes off her sunglasses 21:28:56 strong female character 21:29:01 dammit is it even sunny where you are! 21:29:09 ummm it is 21:29:12 oh 21:29:17 next in super smash bros: a generic mii 21:29:19 it's miserable here, i, just kind of assumed 21:29:26 I think they're actually allowing miis in the next version? 21:29:27 not sure 21:29:30 Bike, as someone who's actually participated in a SSBB tournament, I managed to convince them to play random stage 21:29:39 And it pretty much lost me the final 21:29:39 did you win 21:29:44 loer 21:29:45 s 21:29:47 whatever 21:29:52 Fiora, what about Samus 21:30:02 it was a joke <.< 21:30:20 what about nana 21:30:22 >.> 21:30:27 WHAT ABOUT PIKACHU 21:30:38 but um like. really the wii fit trainer makes gaming dudebros angry so it's probably a good thing 21:31:17 Fiora, are you getting all the "villager will behead you without a second thought" stuff on Tumblr 21:31:31 it's such a weird thing to be pissed about, I mean Brawl had a pictochat level 21:31:39 super serious 21:31:52 idk, it does... feel kind of different? 21:32:17 ok 21:32:17 Taneb: all the stuff about the villager is wonderful 21:32:21 especially as a fan of animal crossing 21:32:35 is it true that his final smash involves weeding 21:32:35 like oh gosh the digging pits to catch your opponents 21:32:36 part of it might be that i never really thought of wii fit as a 'game', more of as an appliance or something 21:32:49 dance dance revolution is a game, right? 21:32:51 Fiora, they already had an item for that didn't they 21:32:52 unlike pictochat 21:33:39 i suppose i give more leeway for stages, then? 21:38:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: GOODNIGHT). 21:47:29 oerjan: 21:47:41 Given this discussion of adding new principles such as univalence, higher inductive types, AC, and LEM, one may wonder whether the resulting system remains consistent. (One of the original virtues of type theory, relative to set theory, was that it can be seen to be consistent by proof-theoretic means). 21:47:48 As with any foundational system, consistency is a relative ques- tion: “consistent with respect to what?” The short answer is that all of the constructions and axioms considered in this book have a model in the category of Kan complexes, due to Voevod- sky [KLV12] (see [LS13b] for higher inductive types). 21:47:55 Thus, they are known to be consistent relative to ZFC (with as many inaccessible cardinals as we need nested univalent universes). Giving a more traditionally type-theoretic account of this consistency is work in progress (see, e.g., [LH12, BCH13]). 21:55:32 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:56:16 Bike: also, the exact form of what's unknown: "Voevodsky has formulated a precise mathematical conjecture connected to this question of canonicity for type theory extended with the axiom of Univalence: given a closed term of the type of natural numbers, is it always possible to find a numeral and a proof that this term is equal to this numeral, where this proof of equality may itself use the univalence axiom?" 21:56:22 that may have got cut off 21:58:54 it didnt 21:58:58 thx 22:00:00 it's miserable here, i, just kind of assumed <-- i think Fiora is in california hth 22:02:24 has anyone here used Actual pictochat 22:02:33 it was very good it had some good emoticons 22:02:44 i remember: a happy square, a sad square 22:02:49 i have 22:02:55 one time i used ms comic chat in wine and it barely worked but i cant seem to get it to work anymore 22:03:01 sunny is miserable though :< 22:03:02 but then you could like 22:03:03 I'd rather it be cloudy 22:03:29 type a happy face, press send, then type a sad face, then copy your previous message 22:03:40 and you'd start "layering" emoticons and they'd get Amazing 22:05:53 that sounds good 22:06:23 does the 3ds even have pictochat ????? 22:06:37 wow no 22:06:53 It has a chat thing where you can draw messages and send them to each other 22:07:03 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Pictochat.png bottom left corner: the happy face 22:07:16 ah, Swapnote 22:07:19 right, that's what it was called 22:08:30 nooodl: one person talking to themselves about wikipedia 22:08:32 the saddest pictochat 22:08:42 yes :( 22:09:51 nooodl, did it have 3d pictochat 22:09:54 that should be a thing 22:09:58 (sculptochat?) 22:15:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:15:41 that sounds like it'd be really hard to use 22:19:44 4d pictochat! 22:19:46 it could be pretty good 22:20:11 drawing on an xy plane, two buttons control the z axis 22:20:38 why do I imagine this would be used almost entirely for sculpting, um. obscene things 22:20:39 and then you'd draw a thing, hold the down button for a while, then draw anothing thing! and one would be behind the other 22:20:43 imo 3d pictochat hooked up to a 3d printer 22:20:46 and a 3d scanner 22:20:50 so you actually sculpt something and send it over 22:21:09 and then people us it for guns 22:21:54 RIP 22:22:10 -!- SgeoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:22:12 how about cute things like nendoroids 22:22:14 guns aren't very cute 22:22:25 what if you made it like some kind of glassblowing simulator 22:22:32 i would pay actual money for that 22:22:35 that sounds good 22:22:50 also: takes skill to make a penis 22:23:12 i'm sure they're willing to learn 22:23:33 have to study at the academy of penis blowing 22:24:15 elliott: I hear it's very popular among young men these days 22:24:50 glassblowing? huh 22:25:41 maybe it's good money.....high demand for glass penises???? 22:27:17 hey everyone has seen glass klein bottles rite 22:27:32 I've seen a real one 22:27:38 none of this lousy self-intersecting shit 22:28:06 did you know that the guy who runs that klein bottle site is also the guy who tracked down that german hacker in the 80s? 22:28:15 which german hacker 22:28:20 hess 22:29:13 well, 22:29:13 no 22:31:27 -!- SgeoBot has joined. 22:31:33 sgeobot? 22:31:36 help 22:31:50 we've actually been talking to sgeobot for years 22:37:46 nah i think his new employed just cyborgized him 22:37:51 *employer 22:38:27 sgeo's moving up in the world 22:40:13 soon he'll be involved in dramatic battles between good and evil. we are not yet sure on which side. 22:40:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:42:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:43:04 -!- Bike has joined. 22:46:01 -!- noooodl has joined. 22:47:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:56:53 Bike: http://www.theonion.com/articles/advanced-alien-civilization-discovers-uninhabitabl,32808/ 22:58:50 not that old canard 23:00:05 Fiora: heh 23:02:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:02:34 oh gosh. that quote is still around 23:03:14 what do you do if you have brown eyes 23:03:48 `quote Fiora 23:03:50 820) omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. \ 830) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it \ 958) Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait.. 23:03:59 oh you have a lot of quotes 23:04:36 apparently? 23:04:47 "his eyes like normal brown-ish stones" 23:05:05 "her eyes like normal brown-ish stones" // actually me 23:08:44 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:10:35 elliott: so how's that axiomy thingy work with richardson's theorem; also why is it "numeral"; also there's no chance in hell i'll understand anything 23:11:46 Fiora: global warming is just depress ing 23:13:13 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 23:13:24 Bike: i don't see the relation to richardson's theorem 23:13:35 richardson's theorem is about decidability 23:13:56 it's numeral because expressions of the form e ::= 0 | S e are the normal form values of type nat 23:14:11 and you can turn any finite amount of "things computed" into something of type nat 23:14:17 so it's a reasonable choice for stating the property 23:14:23 well isn't it about proving a closed form is equal to a number 23:15:22 I,I (you can't prove that) (crack isn't fake) 23:15:28 ok 23:15:51 Bike: well you can prove any term of type nat in normal regular type theory has a numeral and a proof that the term is equal to that numeral 23:16:12 Bike: you evaluate the term, it results in a numeral, and then the proof is obvious 23:16:18 "it reduces to the numeral; q.e.d." 23:16:50 it's sad that i'm trying to figure out if "normal regular" is a technical term 23:16:58 it isn't 23:17:02 i know 23:17:07 hth 23:17:38 you're thinking of standard normal hth 23:19:18 Bike: so like, there's this problem of "given 2 21x21 matrices with integer elements, is it possible to multiply them in some order (with repetition if you want) to achieve the zero matrix" 23:19:37 apparently um. this isn't even like EXPTIME or something. it's undecidable 23:20:02 yeah matrix mortality right 23:20:15 i thought you only needed 13x13 23:20:20 ^rainbow linear operators 23:20:20 linear operators 23:20:48 this paper says 7x 3x3 or 2x 21x21 23:20:55 hm 23:20:59 well, integers make everything harder 23:21:00 Fiora: god, i hate magic numbers like that 23:21:01 that's just a fact 23:21:06 where it all works for a bit and then collapses 23:21:14 doesn't even get harder, just gets impossible 23:21:22 impossible is harder than possible 23:21:23 imo 23:21:54 hey was Fiora around when a wall street journalist came here to interview chris pressey 23:21:58 never forget. 23:21:59 wow there are two other problems about atrices that are undecideable. 23:22:02 O_O? 23:22:07 i swear i'm not making that up 23:22:11 "Determining whether a finite set of upper triangular 3 × 3 matrices with nonnegative integer entries generates a free semigroup." "Determining whether two finitely generated subsemigroups of M_n(Z) have a common element." 23:22:13 he also asked like two questions about hexham 23:22:16 subsemigroups, that's just beautiful. 23:22:16 * Fiora has no idea who that is? 23:22:27 cpressey is elliott's religion 23:22:28 you don't know who chris pressey is... 23:22:29 geez "post correspondence problem" 23:22:32 i think he founded the site or whatever 23:22:33 chris pressey is the guy who made befunge and lots of other esoteric languages, he used to be here a lot but now he isn't 23:22:37 but he came back to do this interview 23:22:41 `? cpressey 23:22:41 Fiora: that's named after Post! it's not to do with letters i hate that 23:22:43 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mouse. 23:23:02 Fiora: btw Post only had one arm. i like pointing this out because it's an odd little thing 23:23:06 @_@ 23:23:07 Bike: he didn't start the wiki or anything (esolangs are way older than the wiki) 23:23:16 ohhhh. I think this problem makes sense now 23:23:16 (i know that much) 23:23:19 but he popularised the term "esoteric" as it pertains to computing I believe 23:23:24 it can't be EXPTIME because the lists on either side can grow without bound 23:23:33 gosh that is an evil problem 23:23:52 i think my favorite undecideable problem is just the word problem for groups 23:23:57 nice'n'easy to understand 23:24:03 I guess it kind of intuitively makes sense that the matrix problem is kind of like the post corresopndance one 23:24:14 Bike: mine is equality of functions 23:24:14 "matrices are weird, and Post was weird, so..." 23:24:21 what's the word problem again 23:24:21 elliott: too obvious 23:24:28 Bike: not very obvious! 23:24:33 people think you can compare functions all the time 23:24:34 Bike: ... easy? >_< 23:24:57 Phantom_Hoover: figuring out if two expressions of group operations represent the same element 23:25:20 (obviously it's decideable for some groups) 23:25:35 Fiora: what can i say i like groups 23:25:38 "two expressions of group operations" o_O 23:25:41 finite groups 23:25:46 for instance 23:25:53 my favourite is that one with matrices 23:26:23 "The mortal matrix problem: determining, given a finite set of n n matrices with integer entries, whether they can be multiplied in some order, possibly with repetition, to yield the zero matrix." 23:26:26 you could say Bike is a groupie 23:26:41 Phantom_Hoover: the one that started this conversation 23:26:46 oh 23:26:49 sorry I guess I don't really get the group thing 23:26:53 why would anyone suggest anything else then 23:27:18 Fiora: like, does a*b*c = b*a*c or somethin 23:27:40 Fiora: so you can describe a group as a set of generating elements + a set of relations that can simplify expressions 23:27:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_a_group 23:27:50 Bike: wait, why would that be undecideable 23:27:59 Fiora, it's not, for finite groups 23:28:14 Fiora: because everything is terrible. 23:28:16 and a bunch of other ones 23:28:17 and so the word problem is like 'can we transform this word into that word using these relations' 23:28:23 or transform them both into the same word, anyway 23:28:32 * Fiora is completely lost 23:29:06 it's ok 23:29:15 there are like a billion undecideable problems to choose from 23:29:24 the idea is that you can't do it for all groups ever (but it might be easy to do it for a particular group) 23:29:29 n.b. i don't really undersatnd the word problem either 23:29:37 i note that all the groups with undecidable word problems wp cites seem to be only remarkable for having unsolvable word problems 23:29:49 well yeah 23:30:09 how often do you construct a set of matrices you can't multiplicate together 23:30:22 hmm, is the mortal matrix thing just a special case of the word problem??? 23:30:29 no 23:30:38 yeah i guess not 23:31:01 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:31:14 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/3/a/53add5b1c27847ffeeee892cfedb4984.png o____o 23:31:25 Fiora: welcome 2 math 23:31:31 yeah, that's what i was saying 23:31:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:32:46 what a silly looking presentation 23:33:02 group theory isn't math hth 23:33:03 wait, if you have your matrices can't you make a group with them as the generatotrs 23:33:21 Bike: ????????? 23:33:42 is that confusing 23:33:44 you can take the free group over a set of matrices but that's just stupid 23:33:47 Bike, no 23:33:50 because youre not using the matrices at all 23:33:56 because they're not necessarily invertible 23:33:58 >> probe money 23:33:58 *** ERROR 23:33:58 ** Script error: money has no value 23:34:04 mnoqy: don't you tell me my free groups are stupid!! 23:34:06 what 23:34:17 (After I poked fun at $6 / $2 being $3) 23:34:25 Phantom_Hoover: o rite 23:34:47 if the matrices are invertible can you solve the mortality problem 23:35:02 yes: "theres no solution" 23:35:08 bc invertible matrices never multiply to 0 23:35:27 cool 23:36:58 what kind of algebraic structure do yo uneed to solve the morality problem 23:37:19 epigenetics 23:47:10 fancy 23:48:26 Track the status of your shipments, nickname your packages, create a personal watch list, and filter shipments to see the details you want. It’s an all-new tracking experience. 23:48:57 does it celebrate anything 23:49:19 celebrates shipmanship 23:49:20 trackmanship 23:49:27 not sure 23:50:12 Ship name: Rosemary Watchlist: Yes Ship status: Canon 23:50:27 how many canon are on that ship 23:50:51 fedex called me to say i'd have to be there for signing for a thing but i could change things via the tracking number 23:50:52 Ship contents: Kanaya Maryam, Rose LaLonde Status: Drunk 23:51:04 but a couple of the tracking number digits were cut off by bad reception or something 23:51:15 oh, that 23:51:42 oh, that 23:51:46 wow, kmc, that putin story 23:51:57 wait what putin story 23:52:46 he started his own party apparently 23:52:55 not that one 23:52:57 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/13/vladimir-putin-defends-the-u-s-on-spying-programs-drones-and-occupy-wall-street/ 23:53:04 that one 23:54:02 news on twitter is weird. guy says WH announcement re: syria is unimportant compared to the jihad 23:54:31 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:54:44 what announcement did i miss 23:54:48 that sounds like wonderful marketing material. 23:54:50 U.S. to increase 'scope and scale' of aid to rebels 23:54:52 "PRISM: endorsed by putin" 23:55:15 it's putin-tastic 23:55:20 elliott: the white house said they'd step up aid, and also a bunch of important clerics declared jihad on the syrian government. 23:56:39 Fiora, i wonder if this is some brilliant gambit by putin 23:57:42 does he need gambits 23:57:43 "ha HA! now the government will be forced to roll back the police state from Russian levels! IT WILL BE THEIR DOOM!" 23:57:49 n.b. i assume putin is a comic book villain 23:57:59 elliott, maybe? 23:58:08 well can't he pretty much do whatever the hell he likes 23:58:12 since when does america care what foreigners think of our government 23:58:38 since we're being praised by the wrong foreigners 2013-06-14: 00:00:55 https://github.com/wopot/jsgifkeylogger/blob/master/gifjs.asm cute but I don't totally see the security relevance 00:01:07 i do like the use of assembler to build binary files that aren't machine code at all 00:01:49 aw, it's not instructions 00:02:22 this is only for tests. 00:02:30 i like the misspelling 00:02:44 wehre 00:02:47 *where 00:02:57 heigth; also, good 00:03:32 it was mistake 00:03:44 i, too, was mistake once 00:04:35 like it could be used to exploit sites with a very specific combination of file uploading, restricted user-specified HTML, and path and URL whitelisting 00:04:45 a combination that doesn't seem very likely to come up in practice 00:04:49 but maybe I'm missing something 00:04:53 anything's possible online, right 00:07:25 kmc: that reminds me of the thing a while back where I tried one of those "smallest possible executable" things 00:07:33 someone had posted their own attempt so I spent a few hours poking at it and trying things 00:07:40 it was fun laying out the ELF header manually 00:07:42 "turns out you can get linux to execute a negative amount of bytes" 00:07:49 pff XD 00:07:59 fancy 00:08:02 i wonder if you can exploit a filesystem bug like that 00:08:07 like if they used signed types accidentally 00:08:13 so you can convince it you have a -1 byte file 00:08:13 I wonder if it's remotely convenient to write a bitstream using an assembler, though 00:08:22 and it'll read backwards because of the way they wrote their loop or something 00:08:23 like writing bytes is just "db whatever" and so on 00:08:27 but like, a bitstream would be trickier 00:08:27 so you can store the file contents in the metadata 00:08:37 imo someone should make this happen 00:08:41 oh gosh I'm thinking of writing a variable-length coder in yasm macros someone -stop me- 00:08:46 :D 00:08:51 * Bike stares impassively 00:09:00 i will not stand in the way of this 00:09:34 Fiora: Can I ask why? 00:09:36 Fiora: at least you're in the right channel 00:09:41 Mind, this is probably awesome. 00:09:47 :) 00:10:18 um. because like, the gif thing above 00:10:23 the idea of laying out a file in an assembler, right? 00:10:37 but like, assemblers only let you write bytes, not bits, usually 00:10:37 Oh. Hah. 00:10:44 at least I think? I might be wrong 00:10:59 That is an amusing way of distributing a binary. 00:11:59 nasm lets you use binary literals. 00:17:19 Amusing thought: you could actually have a GPL-compliant program distributed only as a binary. 00:17:27 If you actually wrote it that way. 00:17:30 Fiora: in nasm, %assign (etc) should be enough to let you write bitwise macros that output bytes as you go along 00:21:19 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:21:24 Fiora: in any case, do it 00:24:04 http://privatepaste.com/094d840fe8 okay I have no idea if this is right but it runs and the first 4 hex digits seem to be right I think 00:24:33 *Nice*. 00:25:19 oh geez. now I'm imagining someone, like, writing a JPEG compressor in nasm macros 00:25:58 (probably faaar beyond me though <.<) 00:27:14 that is fantastic 00:30:19 I think it only handles codes up to 32 bits long 00:30:31 actually I have no idea how nasm represents variables 00:30:40 like gosh what happens when you try to calculate something bigger than int_max 00:30:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:31:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:31:17 turns out it just uses GMP 00:31:19 "for speed" 00:32:39 oh gosh it is actual bignums 00:32:52 or, like, (200000000000000000000000000000<<1) does resolve to 400000000000000000000000000000 00:32:58 wow. 00:33:05 i don't know what to believe any more 00:33:19 1238273829327893192*973289472384729384729348923 resolves to 1205198882014363608197849789575338441444232216 00:33:28 I am kind of um. wow 00:33:57 > 1238273829327893192*973289472384729384729348923 == 1205198882014363608197849789575338441444232216 00:33:58 True 00:34:03 Why wouldn't it use bignums? 00:34:14 oh, huh 00:34:20 It works in yasm 00:34:21 but not in nasm 00:34:28 in nasm it overflows and complains that my big constsant thing won't fit in 64 bits 00:34:30 isn't that the reason nasm isn't cross-platform or sth 00:34:31 in yasm it works okay 00:34:34 no wait i'm thinking of floats 00:34:47 that is super weird 00:36:42 what's going on with those integers there i don't understand 00:37:03 in yasm it just kind of does what you'd expect and works in nasm it overflows ? 00:37:32 oh, i missed the multiplication. 00:41:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:42:21 * Fiora peeeeers at the code, grepgregperpegrep 00:42:25 struct yasm_intnum { 00:42:25 union val { 00:42:25 long l; /* integer value (for integers <32 bits) */ 00:42:25 wordptr bv; /* bit vector (for integers >=32 bits) */ 00:42:25 } val; 00:42:27 enum { INTNUM_L, INTNUM_BV } type; 00:42:30 }; 00:42:32 wow. 00:42:33 -!- Koen_ has joined. 00:42:34 nice 00:42:42 yasm, scales to 1024-bit cpus 00:42:43 what 00:42:52 what's a wordptr 00:43:04 Bike: uint32_t* 00:43:14 gregperp 00:43:22 oh. wouldn't that be a vector of words 00:43:29 ("whatever") 00:43:36 http://guest.engelschall.com/~sb/download/ and it uses this thing for bignum math? 00:43:41 or um, the thing labelled bit-vector 00:43:42 typedefs of pointers are the devil hth :'( 00:43:49 Well, actually, it might be a vector of "words" in the x86 sense. 00:43:55 Making that a uint16_t* 00:44:11 The use of a camel in combination with Perl and Perl-related topics 00:44:12 is a trademark of O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. 00:44:13 It's funny that the system word on my system is a "quad word". 00:44:53 That's Intelese and/or Microsoftese for you. 00:44:55 Wait, so how's it know how many words it's using. 00:45:12 Bike: ... :( 00:45:21 how many bytey things. 00:45:26 i'm not good with computers sorry 00:45:33 Maybe the first word is a count? 00:45:46 shachaf: Intelese really. 00:45:54 it's a pointer to a Bit-Vector object, I think 00:45:56 Bike: could be 0 terminated 00:45:57 bit-vector is a library 00:45:59 And really makes sense from a legacy point of view. 00:46:02 oh ok 00:46:04 or more like a single c file apparently @_@ 00:46:15 that's c libraries for you 00:46:21 x86 asm is for a system with a 16-bit word. 00:46:28 I'm guessing the author didn't want any dependencies for yasm? still wow 00:46:34 well it's not like naïve bignums are hard right 00:46:43 so how often do bignums come up in macroassembly 00:46:51 Bike: Merely tedious if you don't care much about performance. 00:46:52 I... I have no idea @_@ 00:46:59 I don't think I ever touched them before this 00:47:07 but I'm probably not like a good sample or anything 00:47:09 pikhq: the algorithms i learned in elementary school are good enough for my PC, dammit! 00:47:10 naıve bignums 00:47:24 Fiora: maybe they come up in intermediate results and you don't notice. 00:47:31 this might bother me now 00:47:55 but then it'd break on nasm 00:48:14 right? 00:48:16 intel syntax is weird 00:48:24 yeah, i guess it would. 00:48:37 elliott: btw wouldn't 0 terminated be pretty bad for bignums since most of the algorithms go right to left 00:48:54 0 initiated....................... 00:48:55 maybe you could store them backwards. 00:49:09 0 terminated? 00:49:14 for bignums 00:49:23 0 terminated would be awful. 00:49:31 And probably unworkable. 00:49:59 Seeing as 32 0b0s in a row is quite reasonable for sufficiently large numbers. 00:50:11 wow i didn't even think of that wtf 00:50:30 And no, switching to BCD won't help there. 00:50:38 "exactly what i was thinking" 00:50:43 Well. Actually, 8 bits per digit BCD works just fine. :P 00:50:58 pikhq: the idea is you increment by one 00:50:59 wordptr is unsigned int * btw 00:51:02 let's just write numbers in unary 00:51:06 or just reserve one bit as a tag bit or w/e 00:51:13 Heck, at that point you might as well use ASCII. :P 00:51:26 ASCII: best bignum format? 00:51:47 utf-32 is better 00:51:59 finally, a use for COMBINING CYRILLIC MILLIONS 00:52:17 reminds me of how intel added an example code bit in their new optimization manual for converting 64-bit integers into base 10 (for like, printf) 00:53:25 more sophisticated than mod by 10, i assume 00:53:55 using avx2 and stuff 00:54:12 convert between bases in O(1) time!! 00:54:22 "The AVX2 version of numeric conversion across the dynamic range of 3/9/17 output digits are approximately 23/57/54 cycles per input, compared to standard library implement ion’s range of 85/260/560 cycles per input." 00:54:31 geeeez 00:54:58 damn. 00:55:07 they're doing "vectorized montgomery reduction" 00:56:05 so I guess, like, they're calculating (x%10),(x%100),(x%1000) and so on in simd? 00:56:08 or something 00:56:12 I don't know what montgomery reduction is 00:57:04 "In arithmetic computation, Montgomery reduction is an algorithm introduced in 1985 by Peter Montgomery that allows modular arithmetic to be performed efficiently when the modulus is large (typically several hundred bits). 00:57:04 " 00:57:57 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:58:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:58:25 that is big 00:58:53 pretty big 01:42:36 today i saw a tree near my house that was like a whole ecosystem 01:43:15 tree, two different plants growing on the tree, moss, lichen, algae, tiny Mycena mushrooms, ants, red spider, snail, black spider weaving a web attached to the snail 01:43:33 and a kmc 01:43:45 i wasn't 'on' the tree elliott 01:44:28 i thought you were all about being "on" the trees 01:44:30 if you know what i mean 01:44:33 i'm talking about drugz 01:44:39 i think the snail wasn't dead, just too slow for the spider to notice 01:44:40 damn i was hoping dendrophilia 01:44:43 elliott: ah ok 01:44:51 snail defense mechanism 01:45:13 maybe the spider and snail have developed a mutualistic partnership, where the snail makes the web move approprirately 01:45:13 it's always drugz 01:45:19 snails are adorable 01:45:24 yes 01:45:25 http://cuteoverload.com/2009/02/18/junior-snailio/ 01:45:34 awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 01:45:49 hey kmc why does terminal.app often think links include some of the timestamp on the next line 01:45:54 oh my gosh that is so adorable 01:45:55 and more generally lines contain multiple lines 01:45:59 and then when i copy paste them the \ns are gone 01:46:03 w/ mosh 01:46:13 don't know 01:46:15 I put the sequent calculus of Turing machine: http://zzo38computer.org/tex/turing_sequent.tex Please tell me if there is a mistake. 01:46:18 it's amusing when like, it rains here and all the snails come out, and you walk outside and find them all having sex or something 01:46:20 thmc 01:46:26 wow that size difference 01:46:29 ('cause they're snails) 01:46:41 horny sluts the lot 01:46:42 yeah it rained today and there were lots of snails out 01:46:44 also mushrooms 01:47:00 there was this really big snail crawling up the wall the other day like, actually really fast (for a snail) 01:47:05 I wonder if it would be a bad idea to link work stuff here once it's public 01:47:09 and I was imagining it making cute little grunting noises each time it pushed up 01:47:11 we saw some of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidulariaceae 01:47:20 only they were smaller and yellower 01:47:21 Fiora: haha 01:47:44 it's cool how they climb, like, just as fast as they crawl horizontally 01:48:04 there's also this one snail that lives on the wall outside my door. she wakes up every time the sun hits and moves a little bit to the side to stay in the shade 01:49:10 (another great thing about snails: you can use any pronoun you want to refer to them and you'll never be wrong) 01:50:31 :) 01:51:22 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Snail_sanctuary%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_215817.jpg oh gosh 01:51:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:52:11 wow 01:52:59 SgeoBot: i promise to not try very hard to hack your company's websites 01:53:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:53:56 I said yesterday that I would put the sequent calculus representation of Turing machine into the computer on the weekend; well, I did it early. Can you please review it, to tell me if you found a mistake, or another comment/question/complaints? 02:01:59 wow. snails mate after firing a "love dart" into the other. 02:02:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_darts 02:02:52 Hot. 02:03:20 wow, snail courtship lasts up to 6 hours @_@ 02:04:49 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 02:05:44 Ohhh my 02:11:04 -!- Bike has joined. 02:11:09 itt snail porn 02:11:19 every few weeks my computer forgets that wlan0 exists 02:11:24 and i have to do a hard reset to fix it 02:11:26 animal mating is way more interesting than human mating okay :< 02:11:29 i hate computers. they make me miss snail porn 02:12:02 Bike: Maybe you should try to fix it some other way, if it does that there is probably something wrong with it? 02:12:04 Fiora: I dunno, there's a lot of depth to human mating. 02:12:35 hm what is the deepest human mating incident 02:12:37 zzo38: yes, there's something wrong with it and i don't know how to fix it because the solution isn't as simple as ./configure && make && make install which is the limit of my capabilities 02:12:44 oerjan: Define "deep". 02:12:48 oerjan: some engineers in the kola borehole 02:12:54 the joke is depth, 02:13:03 Deep Throat is pretty deep. 02:13:25 that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen 02:14:05 `addquote that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen 02:14:09 1051) that reminds me of a great quote about bird semen 02:14:30 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:14:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 02:15:26 pikhq: is... that a pun 02:15:28 -___- 02:15:40 Fiora: Yes. 02:16:05 pikhq, I am listening to the slow version of Magia using SennHeiser headphones 02:16:50 Fiora: I've got about half a degree in puns. 02:18:26 i've got about 451 02:18:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:18:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:18:52 Which is roughly the temperature parts of my home town are at right now. 02:18:58 * Bike looks for quote, finds detailed drawing of bird soliciting for sex 02:20:32 -!- SgeoBot has changed nick to Sgeo. 02:22:41 i don't think i have what it takes to be a zoology fieldworker. 02:23:04 Does anyone? 02:23:15 disturbingly enough, yes. 02:25:21 oh, hey, i found what i was thinking of. "My career in sperm competition has been a rollercoaster ride, energised by a number of particularly special moments." 02:25:30 me too 02:25:48 the essay this is from is titled "Undiminished passion" 02:28:34 I think I know which phone I want 02:28:38 Not certain though 02:30:04 :t (<~) 02:30:05 Not in scope: `<~' 02:30:05 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:30:05 `<' (imported from Data.Ord), `<=' (imported from Data.Ord), 02:31:08 pikhq: so like, an associate's? 02:33:16 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:42:31 Fiora: Sure. 02:46:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:49:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 03:03:58 What do you expect (<~) to be? 03:07:00 back to pdfs: should i keep the crazy-ass ultrafinitist zeilberger pdf 03:07:22 zzo38: something from lens. 03:08:09 but then i heard lambdabot doesn't have lens at the moment for a stupid safehaskell reason. 03:08:20 Bike: yes 03:08:25 ultrafinitists are the best 03:09:26 REAL (i.e. discrete) analysis is conceptually simpler than traditional 'real' (continuous) analysis, and of course is much truer. But it is, on the whole, technically more difficult. Hence 'Naked Brain' humans had no choice but to pursue the latter kind. 03:10:00 what's discrete analysis in this context 03:10:49 Analysis for crazy people. 03:11:32 Df(x) := (f(x+h) - f(x))/h "where h is the Fundamental mesh size, a Mathematical Universal constant, that unlike Planck's constant, we will never know, but it is very tiny." 03:11:42 … 03:12:00 c'mon zeilberger isn't really crazy 03:12:02 ok i see what you mean. 03:12:03 i mean he's not a crank 03:12:21 elliott are you reading this 03:12:25 yes i've read it 03:12:33 this is time cube level discourse here 03:12:37 it's like a PLANK LENGTH but for the PLATONIC REALM 03:12:40 i mean obviously he's not a crank 03:12:45 but this is fucking nuts 03:13:07 ultrafinitism is not really that nuts 03:13:13 i mean it's not like mathematicians don't go off on platonic type philosophising all the time 03:13:21 yeah but do they do it in allcaps 03:13:23 ultrafinitism is 100% nuts though 03:13:24 where the information content amounts here to "we work with h as a free variable" 03:13:27 "just sayin'" 03:14:29 "fundamental mesh size" eughs me out 03:15:06 The main stumbling block in the further development of the theory of Discrete Analytic Functions is the fact that the property of being discrete-analytic is not preserved under multiplication. But using the discrete Leibniz rule one can express the derivative of a product, and then the product is "almost analytic". So I am sure that the full arsenal of continuous complex analysis can be discretized, but the details might be too complicated fo 03:15:44 btw finite calculus is extremely cool 03:16:16 What is a "fundamental mesh size"? 03:16:22 are the details too complicated for humans 03:16:47 That "Df(x) := (f(x+h) - f(x))/h" doesn't seem to make much sense to me 03:16:48 zzo38: the difference between two points on the real line. 03:17:27 Bike: O, OK, well, it isn't an actual number that can be measured, I think. 03:17:44 its like a derivative but with a philisophical twist 03:18:11 hm i wonder if i'm sleeping 03:18:16 no 03:18:17 yes this is a dream 03:18:27 dont listen to bike he is the Deciever 03:18:37 i meant i wonder if i'm sleeping tonight but ty 03:18:45 Bike: /nick Deciever 03:19:17 no 03:19:35 how about nick Deceiver 03:19:52 Neo-Pythagoreanism or: Anaxagoras deserved to be drowned 03:20:36 If that is how the "fundamental mesh size" is defined, then it can't be a real number. 03:21:17 Bike: i'm reading the book are you proud of me 03:21:22 Yes. 03:21:23 mnoqy won't read it with me because he's ""busy""" :-| 03:21:42 It is utter nonsense to say that √2 is irrational, because this presupposes that it exists, as a number or distance. The truth is that there is no such number or distance. What does exist is the symbol, which is just shorthand for an ideal object x that satisfies x² = 2. 03:21:47 hellooooo platonism 03:22:05 hello......... 03:22:26 -fidget- 03:22:35 -roll- 03:22:41 Well, I suppose whether or not it exists as a distance in physical space is really a different question, although it does mathematically exist, regardless. 03:23:12 Blessed are the Δifference Equations for They Shall Inherit Math 03:24:49 Whether or not there is such a number, depends on what number system it is in; since it is irrational, that means the rational numbers has no square root of 2, but the real numbers does have. 03:24:51 Andrew Wiles' alleged 'proof' of FLT, while a crowning human achievement, is not rigorous, since it uses continuous analysis, which is meaningless. 03:24:51 'sorry wiles' 03:25:13 using the word 'alleged' *and* putting "proof" in scarequotes 03:25:24 Why are you writing such nonsensical things? 03:25:40 Because I think mocking elliott is funny. I'll stop. 03:25:54 are you making fun of elliott because of ultrafinitism? 03:26:16 Well, mostly because this guy specifically is nutso. 03:26:28 The only other ultrafinitist I know of is the one from the anecdote, so he's cool. 03:27:51 that's a great anecdote 03:27:58 if it's the one anecdote about ultrafinitism that i know of 03:28:11 i like that anecdote too 03:28:20 [assuming it's the one i know of] 03:29:14 how many anecdotes about ultrafinitists can there possibly be, i wonder 03:29:19 My philosophy is that mathematics is the real reality, not the physical universe and so on. 03:29:21 finitely many 03:29:26 well played. 03:29:29 i think lecturing the guy for ranting and mocking people he disagrees with is a bit silly 03:29:33 zzo38: platonist!! hides in shelter 03:29:36 since have you noticed how much everyone ever does that 03:29:48 they don't do it quite so amusingly 03:29:52 it's not like any of it was submitted to a real journal or anything 03:29:57 Bike: O, what is *your* philosophy of this? 03:30:20 of math? i suppose i'm a materialist. 03:30:54 Bike: Can you please be a bit more specific? 03:31:22 my philosophy of math is "philosophy of math is silly" 03:31:37 Also a good philosophy. 03:31:52 But why not: I don't think mathematical objects "exist" in any meaningful or usefully talked about sense. Math is just a kind of useful thinking. 03:32:28 sounds like formalism to me 03:32:55 yeah, something like that. 03:33:02 so i'll probably go full platonic at some point derp. 03:33:10 ~consistency~ 03:33:28 my philosophy of things existing is "talking about things existing is silly" 03:33:56 i think hilbert was kind of wack tho. 03:33:58 so there's that. 03:34:09 mnoqy philosophy: Q: what does it mean for something to exist / A: dont ask that question shut up shut up shut up 03:34:09 well your philosophy of things existing doesn't really exist, so there 03:34:28 mnoqy: would you call yourself a sillyist 03:34:36 @quote saulgorn formal 03:34:36 No quotes for this person. Are you on drugs? 03:34:38 !! 03:34:40 @quote formal 03:34:40 Raguel says: does it unsettle anyone that there isn't a formal semantics for haskell? its like someone got drunk, invented a gadget, then when he woke up, couldn't quite draw a blueprint 03:34:40 cool 03:34:42 help 03:34:43 @quote formalist 03:34:43 SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. 03:34:46 thachaf 03:34:48 thambdabot 03:34:53 thanks saul gorn 03:34:58 is that shachaf 03:35:12 no 03:35:18 Shaul Chorn 03:35:26 helpful 03:35:49 Can you understand my implementation of a Turning machine in the sequent calculus? 03:35:57 nope. 03:36:07 maybe 03:36:16 Did you read it? Did you find a mistake within it? 03:36:27 no 03:36:34 mnoqy: but seriously philosophy of math has /some/ use, if only to motivate weirdos to make non-classical logics etc 03:37:07 Bike: ok so long as they need it to motivate them....i do like those non-classical logics 03:37:09 maybe the mathematics establishment should just recruit in asylums to skip the middlemen 03:37:22 good idea 03:37:26 Well, yes perhaps it can motivate some things. 03:37:29 non-classical logics are p. cool 'Bike stamp of approval' 03:37:57 Not only in mathematics, but I think this kind of motivation can be using in science too, in order to form hypotheses and so on. 03:38:37 mnoqy's philosophy of mathematics allergy reminds me of the philosophy of mathematics allergy i used to have 03:38:55 what happened 03:38:56 where's shachaf 03:38:58 i also used to hate talking about anything i completely arbitrarily categorised as "politics" 03:39:04 ``i grew out of both'' 03:39:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `i: not found 03:39:06 haha same 03:39:15 now i rant about the NSA on twitter so that went well 03:39:18 it was the "same kind of thing" i think 03:39:21 srry 14 yo me 03:40:06 hm i wonder if i can apply this "useful crazies" philosophy to psychology stuff none of you give a damn about 03:40:11 i've forgotten how old bike is HELP 03:40:13 i require more research on this 03:40:18 `run printf "#!/bin/sh\n\necho 'DID YOU REALLY'\n" > 'bin/`i' && chmod +x 'bin/`i' 03:40:19 bike is old iirc 03:40:21 No output. 03:40:24 ``i grew out of both'' 03:40:26 DID YOU REALLY 03:40:26 so old 03:40:34 kmc: awesome 03:41:24 i haven't read any [psychologist's name] directly yet, i don't know if he was crazy. i know chomsky is kind of wack and skinner is super wack. everybody's wack 03:41:43 chomsky aint whack :| 03:41:48 hi augur 03:41:49 chomsky is an original gangsta 03:41:53 sorry he is 03:41:55 chomsky is p.wack 03:42:01 no hes really not :| 03:42:15 dope 03:42:27 do you have a ping on chomsky 03:42:33 the great debate between Bike, augur, and mnoqy 03:42:37 mnoqy: yes :) 03:42:37 also does augur highlight on chomsky 03:49:26 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:49:47 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:51:13 Can you please tell me if you like this "turing_sequent"? 03:51:29 And what the mistake is? 03:58:43 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:07:58 Heheh. Noit o' mnain gelb has materials called "copper", "zinc", and "metal". 04:08:28 gelb? not worb? 04:08:34 Yes. 04:12:30 wire: the magnificent element 04:16:37 Hmmm. So apparently I wrote this thing called evolver.py that creates a random subleq program and executes it. 04:19:01 There's nothing determining the fitness of a program. 04:19:30 good evolver 04:20:16 -!- myname has joined. 04:20:54 So I'd like to give the programs fitness functions somehow. 04:21:33 ¿Qué función de fitidad debo usar? 04:21:50 optimize for good ascii art porn 04:23:27 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:24:31 I think I want to do rock-paper-scissors. 04:26:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:26:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:42:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:02:17 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:03:23 hey Bike, you should read this book for me. it's too long 05:03:25 500 pages = too long 05:03:47 What does reading a book for you entail? 05:05:20 reading the words 05:05:36 that's just how i normally read books though 05:05:39 what gives it the elliott touch 05:09:37 because i told you to do it 05:09:59 what do you get out of this though 05:10:32 maybe ill read it once i stop having to do things 05:10:43 `slist 05:10:45 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:24:07 There, now you can compete two genomes with each other to see which one is better at rock-paper-scissors. 05:24:56 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:35 kmc: hi 05:40:20 mnoqy: hey mnoqy philosophy is p. good can i have some more 05:40:31 hichaf 05:40:32 wbchaf 05:41:05 shachaf: "sure" - mnoqy philosophy 05:41:22 what happendeegan 05:45:58 not much, you? 05:49:02 s/n/ne/ 05:49:09 i thought you were pinging me "maybe not" 05:49:16 if so, don't remember why 05:49:44 i'm telling people in another channel why they should all take LSD 05:49:48 04:38:56 where's shachaf 05:50:02 kmc: is it #lisp "continuity" 05:50:02 what channel 05:50:03 "Three: Whenever shachaf is not on screen, all of the other characters should say 'Where's shachaf?'" 05:50:07 is it #esoteric 05:50:13 shachaf: don't want to say because 'everyone will invade' 05:50:17 elliott: that too 05:50:26 telling people in another channel why they should all take LSD is hardly "not much", imo 05:50:53 just a day in the life of drugzjokeman 05:50:55 it's a pretty normal thing for me to do 05:51:01 Bike: this is serious business 05:51:14 drugzeriousman 05:51:15 drugs business 05:51:21 by everybody do you mean "me+Sgeo" 05:51:37 is it #drugz 05:51:39 because let me tell you 05:51:43 i will definitely fucking join #drugz 05:52:00 somehow even when i say #drugz and mean it as a channel it looks like a hashtag 05:52:04 mysterious properties of the word drugz 05:52:31 "hash tag" i get it 05:52:36 ;) 05:52:38 oh good one 05:53:03 if i take drugz will i be as cool as kmc; life's eternal mysterys 05:53:04 01:45 < kmc> i think we are all fundamentally lonely because we don't have access to any interior mental states other than our own 05:53:07 01:45 < kmc> and temporarily modifying the way your brain works is a way to escape that a bit 05:53:32 #drugztalk 05:53:41 took me three tries not to read that as "inferior mental states" 05:53:46 :3 05:53:57 "interior mental states" is a very #drugz thing to say #drugz 05:54:25 does caffeine count as a drugz 05:54:28 need kmc's ruling on this 05:54:39 kmc: /set show_nickmode_empty off 05:54:39 man i barely have access to my own mental state >: 05:54:42 elliott: /script load splitlong.pl 05:55:06 shachaf: /quit 05:55:06 i have access to alt. mental states 05:55:11 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:55:12 ulterior mental states 05:55:15 :( 05:55:18 nice 05:55:22 well 05:55:49 kmc: im sorry i have superpowers 05:58:24 hey this reminds me of a pet peeve. kmc when you're talking about mental states and other psychological stuff don't refer to it as neuroscientific or anything, psychology is perfectly good. thx 05:58:41 what 05:58:52 i don't follow 05:59:03 that's ok 05:59:07 it's just a peeve 05:59:16 but did i do something which exhibits this peevish behavior 05:59:21 no 05:59:23 oh 05:59:33 ok well I'm still not sure what you meant 06:05:16 -!- shachaf has joined. 06:05:25 wbchaf 06:05:33 thellilott 06:05:57 bike is this about people talking about psychological stuff but they think psychology is rubbish pseudoscience so they talk about it terms of the physical brain being in a weird state??? i may or may not have seen this happen like once 06:06:23 oh no 06:06:28 software is rubbish pseudoscience, that's why i describe my programs in terms of what they do to transistors 06:06:37 mnoqy: yeah basically that. 06:06:38 is Bike a neuropseudoscientist 06:06:46 a tragic fate 06:07:29 what set this off: i read that paper about rubberhose crypto again and it's described as "neuroscience" even though it's based on cog psych. 06:07:37 [joke making fun of freud, ignores every psychologist since freud] 06:07:47 isn't it based on 06:07:50 hitting people 06:07:50 nooooo freud 06:08:02 that's the crypt/analysis/ 06:08:05 elliott: your comedic timing is impeccable 06:08:16 psychology is such a fræud 06:08:59 Bike: idgi 06:09:31 good ##crypto spam 06:09:35 does this happen often 06:09:41 "Neuroscience Meets Cryptography: Designing Crypto Primitives Secure Against Rubber Hose Attacks" 06:09:46 read it or whatever i guess 06:10:04 Bike: Did you read _Three Men in a Boat_? 06:10:11 not yet. 06:10:25 read it hth 06:10:26 Did I mention it was published in 1889? 06:10:38 no, but that was easiliy noticeable in the wikipedia article. 06:11:25 hey #esoteric needs more petitions 06:12:15 petition to introduce more petitions: sign here ← 06:12:37 petition to introduce more petitions: sign here X ← 06:12:47 this is because the bot spammed ##crypto with https://www.change.org/petitions/mtgox-add-litecoin-to-mtgox ? 06:12:50 great petition imo 06:12:58 it really sells the cause when every sentence contains a grammatical error 06:13:42 what if every sentence my gramma says contains a grammatical error 06:15:37 why would you put this on change.org 06:16:18 should put it on the whitehouse.gov thing instead imo 06:16:31 do they have a white house in .uk 06:16:40 a few 06:16:54 we had a Whitehouse 06:17:09 who was confused with the White House on at least one (1) occasion 06:17:16 there's a russian one and an american one isn't that ENOUGH universe 06:17:55 nothing is enough 06:18:07 :{ 06:18:19 :{) 06:18:23 hey you whitehouse, ha ha charade you are 06:18:45 kmc: that is what i was thinking of 06:18:46 hey did you see my moustache 06:18:49 though the confusion may be apocryphal 06:18:53 whoa dude that word is weird 06:19:03 the american spelling drops the o instead of the u 06:19:47 mostache 06:20:27 kmc: do you get the feeling that person is just there to argue and not listen 06:20:43 do i have to join this fuckn crypto channel 06:20:47 no 06:21:08 well it sounds pretty bad from these reports! 06:22:59 man 06:23:03 i'm getting too tired for this hott book 06:23:07 i need to cooll down 06:23:30 what book 06:23:33 :-] 06:23:37 i want a hott book 06:25:14 @google hott book 06:25:15 Plugin `search' failed with: user error (https not supported) 06:25:20 oh no 06:25:34 shachaf won't survive this, elliott. 06:25:55 ~duck hott book 06:26:05 metasepia??? 06:26:06 metasepia.............................. 06:26:21 without a bot to search i feel very isolated. 06:26:38 mnoqy will be your search bot 06:26:58 um why is @google broken 06:27:00 @google fuck 06:27:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck 06:27:01 Title: Fuck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 06:27:04 !mnoqy nutrition facts of a carrot 06:27:05 @google cold book 06:27:07 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/books/review/Roach-t.html?pagewanted=all 06:27:07 Title: Book Review - 'Cold - Adventures In the World�s Frozen Places,' by Bill Str... 06:27:09 @google hott book 06:27:10 Plugin `search' failed with: user error (https not supported) 06:27:11 oh 06:27:17 probably it's trying to read the title of an https url 06:27:17 first result is https'y? 06:27:19 heh heh heh 06:27:25 ye 06:27:26 WELL that goes on the todo list 06:27:32 thx github 06:27:36 what's on the todo list now 06:27:37 @todo 06:27:37 0. SamB: A way to get multiple results from a google search 06:27:37 1. dons: improve formatting of @dict 06:27:37 2. dons: write Haskell Manifesto 06:27:37 3. lispy: don't let lambdabot's prettyprinter split the sequence @foo across lines 06:27:37 4. TheHunter: priviledged users should get priviledged listcommands. 06:27:39 [37 @more lines] 06:27:40 @more 06:27:41 5. TheHunter: @type 1 :: Int 06:27:43 6. lispy: haddock gives a link from a type signature to the types. It would be nice if it also let you find functions in the given module that use a type. 06:27:45 7. dons: Implement @whatis 06:27:47 8. dcoutts: implement @cool list, as a clone of the @todo(-add) commands 06:27:49 9. dons: there's some bug in the 'when i left' code of @seen 06:27:51 [32 @more lines] 06:27:53 @more 06:27:53 10. dons: sarahbot style @tell 06:27:55 11. beelsebob_: @tell command - relays a message to someone when they next speak 06:27:57 12. dons: @seen on lambdabot should report lambdabot's channels too 06:27:59 13. ski: when printing first lines of infinite things (or all cases with nonexact), should say 'at least' 06:28:01 14. ski: provide '@more ', at least for privmsg 06:28:03 shachaf: elliott told me to tell you to stop spamming 06:28:03 @type 1 :: Int 06:28:03 [27 @more lines] 06:28:05 Int 06:28:07 shachaf: i think it's serious 06:28:12 mnoqy: ok 06:28:16 why didn't he tell me himself 06:28:18 shachaf: mnoqy told me to tell him to tell you to stop spamming :-( 06:28:24 its a tangled web 06:28:34 the truth is... i am mnoqy 06:28:46 ok i'm putting elliott on /ignore 06:28:48 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v mnoqy. 06:28:57 help 06:28:58 "the gordian ¬" 06:29:11 person in ##crypto is claiming that at least 10% of the bitcoin network power is compromised botnet machines 06:29:25 is that plausible? 06:29:33 i have no way of knowing 06:29:42 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v kmc. 06:29:51 It is very plausible that people in ##crypto will claim things. 06:30:19 hm 06:30:25 looks like the https thing is some other library's fault 06:30:27 sighhhhhhhhh 06:32:04 shachaf: am i on /ignore now 06:32:46 why do i have voice 06:32:59 is that a serious question 06:33:34 reason probably similar to that of why i have voice 06:33:56 mnoqy: are you saying kmc is the best 06:34:15 i don't know why i'm +v 06:34:20 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v mnoqy. 06:34:30 imo you can't both be the best 06:34:41 see http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2952 06:34:43 glad we got that sorted 06:35:20 shachaf: like referencing bible verses 06:35:23 wait 06:35:25 thats not super mega 06:35:32 wow i thought that was a super mega link for like five whole seconds 06:35:33 what's happening 06:35:39 i thought it was super mega too 06:35:42 i feel betrayed 06:35:54 me too 06:36:23 The Incident 06:36:48 Bike: hey speaking of super mega 06:36:52 `smlist 06:36:54 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 06:36:57 @tell shachaf hello 06:36:57 Consider it noted. 06:37:12 wow lots of super mega recently!!! 06:37:25 not clean 06:37:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:37:54 Bike: what's with all the mustaches on super mega 06:38:05 i don't know. i'm not a super megxpert. 06:38:07 @tell elliott hi 06:38:07 Consider it noted. 06:38:17 @ask shachaf am i on ignore 06:38:17 Consider it noted. 06:38:48 @tell elliott yes, see above 06:38:48 Consider it noted. 06:39:04 @tell shachaf i understand that's the kind of thing that's not meant to happen!! 06:39:05 Consider it noted. 06:40:17 OK? 06:41:01 It's a lot like /quit 06:41:20 @tell shachaf i was making a homoros reference 06:41:20 Consider it noted. 06:41:24 @tell shachaf *hummus 06:41:24 Consider it noted. 06:41:42 guys 06:41:43 I know. 06:41:46 you're fucking 06:41:48 fuck 06:42:09 "guys you're fucking fuck" - bike, voice of today's youth 06:42:25 you know it's true 06:42:39 you can't fuck in here! this is the sex room 06:43:00 it's a shame that isn't a song lyric. 06:43:01 /unignore elliott 06:43:07 * shachaf sighs. 06:43:18 kmc: i've never watched dr strangelove 06:43:23 does that go before or after lsd 06:43:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:43:32 Before. 06:43:35 or simultaneously 06:43:58 _Dr. Strangelove_ is good. 06:44:06 dr strangelove is good 06:44:07 what about the version without the underscores 06:44:10 ive never seen lsd 06:44:11 thonqy 06:44:22 what about the version without the underscores but with the dot and with one of the capitals 06:44:31 `thanks mnoqy 06:44:33 Thanks, mnoqy. Thoqy. 06:44:39 Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb is good. 06:44:53 `thanks monqy 06:44:53 s/l/L/ 06:44:54 Thanks, monqy. Thonqy. 06:44:59 hm. 06:45:03 how about in camlcase 06:45:09 Or should that be s/l/L/? 06:45:21 dr strangeLove 06:45:36 mr strangelove phd 06:45:46 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DrStrangeLove 06:45:53 dr bloodmoney, or how we got along after the bomb 06:46:36 Bike: Did you watch _Dr. Strangelove_? 06:46:43 i watched jerkcity 06:47:24 is that about socrates 06:47:52 athens wasn't a jerkcity for killing socrates! 06:47:55 i mean, he was a jerk. 06:48:01 Right. 06:48:01 i'd watch a jerkcity film 06:48:08 He was the jerk. 06:48:11 i mean 06:48:13 so would everyone 06:48:17 I wouldn't. 06:48:22 but not the jerkcity 06:48:31 because he wasn't a city. 06:48:34 i mean we all know the syllogism. 06:48:50 i'd watch a jerkcity film 06:48:58 shachaf: yes you would 06:49:05 nobody really has a choice in fact 06:49:10 I wouldn't. 06:49:16 doesn't work like that 06:49:18 Bike: What syllogism? 06:49:27 all men are mortal; 06:49:41 Socrates is a man 06:49:43 No man is an island 06:49:44 That one? 06:49:49 yeah. 06:49:49 It doesn't talk about cities. 06:49:54 that's the one 06:49:58 no but it says he's a man. 06:50:08 But it doesn't say he's not a city. 06:51:06 does it say whether or not he'd watch a jerkcity film 06:51:10 He wouldn't. 06:51:49 kmc: i am very irritable lately what do i do 06:52:08 do you know why? 06:52:25 Not really. 06:53:08 Does the + mean that you're my attorney? 06:53:21 http://wondermark.com/943/ kmc versus realty 06:54:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:54:46 Bike: good comic 06:55:45 shachaf: does the start of irritability coïncide with some other change 06:55:55 I don't think so. 06:57:22 Bike: there's a restaurant down the street and their menu contains wordart where the name of the restaurant is rendered anti-aliased on top of a white background and then all the non-white pixels were composited on top of a dark image 06:57:36 awesome 06:57:42 is there a name for that particular kind of fuckup 06:57:50 sounds perfect 06:58:11 i've seen that 06:58:13 it's great 06:58:19 i mean, that sort of fuckup 06:58:21 not that restaurant 06:59:14 Bike: http://davidmalki.tumblr.com/post/52931217555/hey-its-a-comic-wondermark-943-dont-give-it 06:59:30 Much nicer, isn't it? 2x2, bigger text. 06:59:49 tumblr sucks, though 07:01:37 It's amazing how uninterested I am in helping people as soon as I find out they're using e.g. Yesod/conduit. 07:01:48 I bet some people feel the same way about lens. 07:01:59 "take it to -lens" 07:04:52 Sgeo: what is your bot prefix 07:04:55 !help 07:05:06 #help 07:05:09 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 07:06:21 who 07:09:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:21:55 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:29:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:43:53 shachaf: why uninterested 08:09:38 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:29:48 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:30:48 -!- nortti has joined. 08:59:37 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:01:15 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 09:36:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:49:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:55:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:57:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:05:37 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 10:10:20 -!- nooga has joined. 10:30:34 aaaah 10:30:36 I'm ill 10:32:33 oh no 10:32:43 Are you: the illest. 10:32:56 are you passing your germs on to us 10:33:38 I don't think so, Phantom_Hoover 10:33:40 is it the bubonic plague 10:33:47 fizzie, you should hear my sick beats 10:33:56 shachaf, I don't think so 10:34:03 Don't have any bubons 10:34:05 How about the bucolic plague? 10:34:11 tell me Taneb have ever told you to watch farscape 10:34:28 Phantom_Hoover, you have 10:34:34 I thus far have not watched it 10:34:44 fuck you 10:34:48 i'm glad you're ill 10:35:06 farscape........ 10:35:17 that's the thing with scorpion isn't it 10:35:30 close 10:35:44 (it's very good) 10:36:27 i think someone showed me one episode once 10:36:30 with cartoons?? 10:36:53 yes 10:38:35 is that episode representative 10:39:09 the cartoons are not 10:39:15 the general craziness kind of is 11:09:07 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:13:41 hey mnoqy if a matrix is really a linear function, what's a determinant 11:15:38 the way i did determinants was as follows: 11:16:24 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:17:42 is the joke that you didn't do determinants 11:17:57 first define determinants on matrices over a field F axiomatically as: alternating multilinear function (F^n)^n -> F s.t. det(I) = 1 11:18:02 then 11:18:12 you derive a bunch of properties of determinants 11:18:38 like det(A^{-1}) = det(A)^{-1}, and det(AB) = det(A)det(B) 11:18:53 AND THEN since all matrix representations of a linear function are similar 11:19:28 you define det(f) := det([f]_{arbitrary basis}) 11:20:24 i can elaborate further if it wasnt clear but thats the short version 11:20:55 i wish i wasn't falling asleep right now :'( 11:21:08 maybe i'll ask you more tomrorrowr 11:21:10 ok 11:21:14 or maybe i won't 11:21:17 ok 11:21:18 i work in mysterious ways 12:02:19 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:10:28 -!- nooga_ has joined. 12:31:48 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:32:49 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:32:49 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:41:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:47:34 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:09:57 eip lindbohm.freenode.net 13:09:58 *rip 13:10:08 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 13:10:17 -!- elliott has joined. 13:10:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:10:59 wtf 13:11:04 i connected to chat.eu.freenode.net 13:11:09 and get a server in new jersey 13:12:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:13:08 Perhaps that's New Jersey, Italy. 13:13:25 chat.eu.freenode.net is an alias for chat.freenode.net. 13:13:30 Well, that's new. 13:14:08 http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml has also removed the continental aliases for Europe and US. 13:14:57 I think the only conclusion you can draw is that some sort of Lorentz contraction has brought Europe and the states together. 13:17:40 Resulting velocity: 0 - Displacement x: 1.088 13:17:41 weird 13:21:18 i assign fizzie to ask #freenode 13:21:41 I assign #freenode to ##esoteric and then you can ask here. 13:21:53 i don't 13:24:10 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:29:03 I wonder if I should just connect to holmes.freenode.net 13:29:06 it has 1 ms ping from my server 13:33:16 fizzie: would that be a "good idea" 13:33:26 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 13:33:48 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:42:34 fizzie i am literally incapable of making decisions without your help 13:43:40 why, is fizzie Keeper of the Coin? 13:43:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:44:02 i love logic exams 13:44:05 they're so easy 13:44:32 I've always hated logic lessons at the university 13:45:18 it felt like the teacher was trying to convince us that the most basic common sense was actually an obscure science 13:45:24 logic here is great because it's technically a philosophy course 13:45:42 so it's basically aimed at people who have never had to do a proof in their lives 13:47:10 and it makes you feel superior I understand the feeling bro 13:47:53 Phantom_Hoover: was it about monoids 13:48:13 sadly no 13:48:25 Koen_: "common sense" doesn't exist and judgements that are simple in the surface can be very complex from a theory pov 13:49:11 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:50:48 @tell ais523 a new featured language would be great twh 13:50:48 Consider it noted. 13:55:51 i dislike german exams, they're so schwierig 13:57:35 elliott: Well ef-wee-ai-wee I do connect to explicit servers, if you know what I mean. 13:58:10 fizzie: servers plural??? 13:58:30 I like how you're on a US server 13:58:37 not very finnish 13:58:51 I think I listed two explicit and the now borken chat.eu in my bouncer config. 13:59:06 rajaniemi, lindbohm and chat.eu. 13:59:26 and you're on hubbard 13:59:53 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: jumpin' jumpin'). 14:00:00 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:00:06 no im not 14:05:02 good jumpin' 14:05:22 i wonder how often holmes goes down...... 14:05:47 do i dare rest the fate of lambdabot on one server!! 14:18:35 -!- myname has joined. 14:21:15 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:45:04 -!- jconn has joined. 14:48:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:02:20 -!- carado has joined. 15:03:28 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:31:08 -!- conehead has joined. 15:47:34 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 15:49:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: No buffer space available). 15:49:03 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 15:49:22 -!- myndzi has joined. 15:49:43 -!- drlemon has joined. 15:53:29 -!- drlemon has left. 15:55:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:29:45 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:38:07 SDL_Event e; 16:38:07 SDL_UserEvent u; 16:38:07 u.type=SDL_USEREVENT; 16:38:07 u.code=0; 16:38:07 e.type=SDL_USEREVENT; 16:38:07 e.user=u; 16:38:08 SDL_PushEvent(&e); 16:38:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Excess Flood). 16:38:23 zzo38 appears to have segfaulted? 16:39:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:42:08 oops zzo38paste 16:47:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:09:24 Do you like this kind of game? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSbackgammonches 17:39:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:51:52 Is this a real question? 17:59:24 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 18:03:07 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:32:39 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:44:03 fucking arizona 18:44:07 too good for daylight savings time 18:45:16 I don't like daylight saving time. 18:57:30 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:06:55 -!- itsy has joined. 19:11:37 what a shock 19:16:24 I like daylight saving time. 19:16:31 I don't like standard time, though. 19:16:35 hth 19:16:49 you and zzo38 are doomed to be forever an hour apart 19:16:53 I like all the time in the world 19:17:25 kmc's +v makes me feel uneasy. 19:17:27 What is he scheming? 19:17:43 -!- Koen__ has joined. 19:18:22 oh i guess i could -v myself 19:18:26 but... i won't 19:19:08 gasp 19:19:14 (Are you sure one can -v oneself?) 19:19:34 Nope 19:19:42 You can't without at least halfop priviledges 19:19:43 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:19:57 oh 19:20:07 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:20:14 i will relinquish my -v as soon as the civil emergency is over, I promise 19:20:22 Well, maybe you could -v using chanserv 19:20:26 But not directly 19:20:27 what's the civil emergency? 19:20:41 olsner: kmc has +v 19:21:32 zzo38: I like SDL 19:21:41 FreeFull: OK 19:21:48 But I'm unhappy that the Haskell package doesn't allow you to write your own function for sound using SDL 19:22:19 On the C side, you can provide a user-written callback which fills a buffer 19:22:22 FreeFull: Will it work if you write the function for sound in C? 19:22:33 The Haskell library seems to just have skipped over it 19:22:34 And you can write the other part of the program in Haskell? 19:22:38 Although I see why it'd be hard 19:24:11 it's not that hard to turn Haskell functions into C function pointers 19:24:28 you could just write your own foreign import for that function 19:24:33 (One can always also go away and come back.) 19:24:35 Or even Haskell IO actions! 19:25:50 Yes, you could do that, but due to the way the sound works in SDL it seems it might not necessarily work. 19:29:46 it might not be real time enough 19:35:18 zzo38: so when you capture a backgammon pawn on the chess board, it gets transferred to the backgammon board's jail 19:35:31 but how do you transfer a pawn from the backgammon board to the chess board? 19:38:19 Koen__: Chess pieces in backgammon board move like stones of backgammon while there. I fixed this rule now. 19:39:01 yeah but my question is: how do you transfer a piece to the backgammon board? 19:39:05 uh 19:39:09 I mean, the opposite 19:39:16 how do you transfer a piece to the chess board? 19:39:31 They are bear off. 19:40:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:40:18 O no wait, I was wrong. 19:40:28 Chess pieces captured in chess board are removed from the game. 19:40:31 I'm feeling somewhat better than I was before 19:41:01 Only stones, not chess pieces, are placed in jail when captured from chess board. 19:41:07 Is this understandable now? 19:41:40 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:50:19 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:51:32 I wonder when lambdabot will have lenses again 19:51:38 Damn you hashable 19:52:40 :t \f (a, b) -> fmap ((,) b) (f a) 19:52:41 Functor f => (t -> f a) -> (t, a1) -> f (a1, a) 19:53:22 :t \f (a, b) -> fmap ((,) a) (f b) 19:53:23 Functor f => (t -> f a) -> (a1, t) -> f (a1, a) 19:53:59 Taneb Taneb Taneb 19:54:16 I AM MANUALLY ADDING LENS TO LAMBDABOT SO HELP ME GOD 19:54:20 @let _2 f (a, b) = (,) a <$> f b; _2 :: Functor f => (a -> f b) -> (c, a) -> f (c, b) 19:54:22 Defined. 19:54:38 r u ok 19:54:50 Can you view my sequent calculus of Turing machines now? Please tell me if there is a mistake! 19:54:59 @let type Lens s t a b = forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 19:55:00 Parse failed: TypeOperators is not enabled 19:55:10 thanks a lombdabot 19:55:23 do you even need a forall there 19:55:33 @let type Lens s t a b = Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 19:55:35 Defined. 19:55:37 ew 19:55:37 You know, one could probably fork, and open a pull request with the Trustworthy stuff 19:55:40 disgusting 19:55:45 :t \l f -> runIdentity . l (Identity . f) 19:55:48 ((a1 -> Identity b) -> a -> Identity c) -> (a1 -> b) -> a -> c 19:56:08 good type 19:56:22 I thought Lens was Functor 19:56:27 @ let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t 19:56:29 Lemme check 19:56:33 @let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t 19:56:34 shachaf: btw three men is p. good 19:56:35 Defined. 19:56:43 > over _2 (+ 1) (1, 2) 19:56:44 Bike: what about the boat and the dog 19:56:47 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:56:49 > over _2 (+ 1) (1, 2) 19:56:50 the dog's good 19:56:54 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:56:54 not sure re: the boat yet 19:56:58 OH NO 19:57:03 di you only read chapter 0 19:57:03 " type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t" 19:57:13 Oops. 19:57:13 i'm on chapter: iii 19:57:18 Did I really write Applicative? 19:57:19 Habit. 19:57:27 @undefine 19:57:27 Undefined. 19:57:28 Applicative would be a traversal I think 19:57:35 @let type Lens s t a b = Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 19:57:36 Defined. 19:57:47 @let _2 f (a, b) = (,) a <$> f b; _2 :: Lens (e,a) (e,b) a b 19:57:48 Defined. 19:58:01 @let over l f = runIdentity . l (Identity . f); over :: ((a -> Identity b) -> s -> Identity t) -> (a -> b) -> s -> t 19:58:01 Defined. 19:58:03 Did that just undefine everything? 19:58:16 no, he's just redefining _2 w/ his fancy-ass type 19:58:28 Yes, it did just undefined everything. 19:58:37 o well 19:58:39 @let view l = getConst . l Const 19:58:39 Defined. 19:58:40 @ty view 19:58:41 ((a1 -> Const a1 b1) -> a -> Const c b) -> a -> c 19:58:57 > view _2 (over _2 (*5) ("hi",20)) 19:58:58 > view _1 (3,4) 19:58:59 Not in scope: `_1' 19:58:59 Perhaps you meant `_2' (line 126) 19:59:00 100 19:59:25 > over _2 (*5) ("test",19) 19:59:28 ("test",95) 19:59:33 nice 19:59:39 Why did my view not work? 19:59:51 For the reason lambdabot said. 19:59:52 because _1 doesn't exist 19:59:56 Oh, you didn't define a _1 19:59:59 > view _2 (3,4) 20:00:05 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:01:14 > view _2 (3,4) 20:01:18 4 20:01:24 /msg lambdabot > view _2 (3,4) 20:02:32 @let _1 f (a, b) = (,) b <$> f a; _1 :: Lens (e,a) (e,b) b a 20:02:32 .L.hs:128:19: 20:02:32 Could not deduce (e ~ a) 20:02:32 from the context (Functor f... 20:04:27 _2 seems a bit easier to define than _1, because of how fmap works with tuples 20:12:21 ...isn't any occupied type a terminal object in Hask? 20:12:39 "occupied"? 20:12:51 Any type with one inhabitant is. 20:13:13 Ah, there's a word "single" that I was missing 20:13:20 And I meant inhabited 20:13:22 And I was wrong 20:13:28 Yay learning 20:13:32 yearning 20:16:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:35:46 -!- fizzie has joined. 20:37:18 I think the Turing machine sequent calculus could be consistently combined with classical logic; last time I think I made a mistake when I said it can't. 20:47:17 I should probably play Kerbal Space Program 20:50:47 Except a) I cannot find my bank card and b) I have exams happening 21:04:36 kmc: Oh, you can improve that CM sketch thing if you only need to allow adding, rather than deleting. 21:05:52 O no, even though Turing machine and classical logic together might be consistent, it isn't very useful for this purpose because any of the pieces of the tape might spontaneously lose data and be reset to the default symbol. 21:06:40 Maybe it is useful if you want to make that kind of Turing machine, perhaps...... 21:06:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:07:18 itsy, did anyone give you an answer to your riddle? 21:07:21 what is CM sketch thing 21:07:34 count-min 21:07:37 oh right 21:07:48 what do you do if you don't allow deleting 21:09:03 You can compute the minimum before incrementing, and then you don't need to increment the counters that are already bigger than the new minimum. 21:09:57 ok 21:13:35 Taneb: not yet 21:14:01 Because I think I have an answer 21:14:04 Shall I PM? 21:14:09 Okay :-) 21:15:51 Whiddle? 21:16:40 shachaf: that is good for concurrent access I guess. 21:16:51 Oh, the one with the bitwise &? 21:17:48 The one of what with the bitwise &? 21:18:08 I guess it wasn't a bitwise &. 21:18:22 itsy: Please fix your IRC client to send UTF-8 instead of ISO-8859-1 or whatever it is it does. 21:18:28 kmc: ? 21:18:34 a and b were >= 2, right? 21:19:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:19:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:20:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:20:58 reducing the number of increments 21:21:51 I guess a and b coul be and 4, then 21:21:57 lol oops. 21:25:26 http://plv.csail.mit.edu/bedrock/ this seems this-channel-y. 21:25:51 http://wrongquestions.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/dark-knight.html you know i really am glad i found this thing 21:26:46 Bike: cool 21:37:24 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:38:20 Bike: It may be the good idea. I like this ideas. Does it mean this "cross-platform machine language" can be compile into others? Can it work with self-modifying code? etc? 21:38:32 beats me 21:39:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:55 I thought of some kinds of extended sequent calculus, such as one where rules have priorities assigned and you are not allowed to use any rule unless there isn't any available rule of a higher priority, and rules with side effects, and possibly other things. 21:42:18 What kind of strange logic can be made up with such things? 21:51:15 -!- `0x00 has joined. 21:51:22 -!- `0x00 has left. 21:51:48 why did they leave with such a nick they should fit right in 21:52:15 oerjan: i had a dream that there were a bunch of `olist updates 21:52:43 shachaf: you were probably just trapped by that illusion spell in the recent one 21:53:07 probably 21:53:46 should i have realized ))oh wait there are never a whole lot `olist updates at once(( and thereby become unillusioned 21:53:47 two and six? 21:54:14 shachaf: well there was several in a row earlier this year 21:54:17 *were 21:54:36 but not at once 21:55:55 no, what am i thinking. 21:56:08 no wait two and six should work. 21:58:12 oerjan: yes well he got paid a million dollars to do those nine in a row 21:58:32 > 1.2e6 / 9 21:58:32 133333.33333333334 21:58:44 kind of expensive imo 21:58:46 pretty good pay 21:58:54 that too 21:59:51 could have got awkward if he had had to stop after eight on the first try 22:02:28 wait is lambdabot notifying of messages in private now 22:02:37 yes 22:02:40 and in the meanwhile armikrog isn't even at its goal :'( 22:02:50 itsy: is it two and six this is bothering me now agh 22:02:51 what's armikrog 22:03:21 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_. 22:03:43 oh wait this won't work 22:03:48 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 22:03:56 Bike: so Pat knows the product 12 and Sam knows the sum 8. 22:04:15 right 22:04:27 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 22:04:36 @tell oerjan Hi 22:04:36 Consider it noted. 22:04:37 sam thinks it's 2,6 or 3,5 but if it's 3,5, Pat would know them from their product 22:04:46 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:04:52 ho hum 22:06:00 @tell oerjan yoerjan 22:06:00 Consider it noted. 22:06:14 @messages 22:06:34 12 could be 2,6 or 3,4 so Pat doesn't know. 22:06:36 @list messages 22:06:36 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages 22:07:29 why not 1,7 hth 22:07:42 why not -5,13 hth 22:08:19 I thought they were restricted to be between 2 and 99. 22:08:58 If Sam knows the sum is 8, a and b could be 3 and 5. If they're 3 and 5, then Pat has the product 15 and can calculate a and b. Sam knows that Pat doesn't know the answer, but if the sum is 8, Pat might know... 22:09:17 right. 22:09:28 so did i get it right or what. i need riddle cred. 22:09:44 alt. answers include: 7 and 37 and Sam and Pat are just not good at math 22:11:27 Bike: all possible a and b pairs that add up to the sum must contain at least one composite number. Otherwise Sam can't possibly know that Pat doesn't know the answer. 22:11:49 " 12 could be 2,6 or 3,4 so Pat doesn't know." <--- i read these as decimal numbers and was very confused hh 22:11:53 hth hth 22:12:16 your own fault for living in a country with dumb decimal formattign 22:12:20 *formatting 22:12:32 I thought Sam knew Pat didn't know the answer because he said so 22:12:39 hope that helps when proceeded by its quotation 22:12:53 preceded 22:12:54 whatever the fuck 22:12:59 hope never helps 22:13:03 :( 22:13:32 Phantom_Hoover: do you know how we write tuples 22:14:04 !a"$%b* 22:14:33 £ doesn't actually exist outside .uk 22:14:38 if there aren't any decimals in any of the numbers it's just (1, 2) 22:14:39 no one has fonts for it 22:14:45 @let (£) = (,) 22:14:45 Parse failed: Parse error in pattern: � � 22:14:50 ffffffffffffff 22:14:53 if there are, you gotta write (1,2; 3,4) 22:15:09 we can land a man on the moon but we can't make a haskell eval bot that handles non-ASCII characters 22:15:25 also some people (even books) use . instead of \cdot to mean multiplication hth 22:15:32 kmc: i bet it'll handle iso-8859-1 22:15:34 hth 22:15:38 nooodl: typewritten ones? 22:15:39 well, people do that in americaland too. 22:15:46 What value are a and b? 22:15:46 2 <= a <= b <= 99 22:15:46 Sam knows the sum a + b. 22:15:46 Pat knows the product a * b. 22:15:46 Sam says: "I don't know a and b. I also know that you don't know." 22:15:47 Pat says: "I do now!" 22:15:47 Sam says: "So do I." 22:15:47 I mean, they suck, but they do it. 22:15:51 publishing maths before LaTeX was grim 22:15:57 Oh. 22:16:09 Too complicated for me 22:16:17 nope, actual modern typeset books 22:18:05 i heard a story about some pre-latex textbook where the guy wrote "bla bla bla \epsilon" and then had a footnote at the bottom saying "\epsilon should be as small as possible" 22:18:32 which the printers interpreted as an instruction to print the epsilon really tiny 22:18:35 kmc: hey ghc is more complicated than all the moon landing software combined, of course it's harder hth 22:19:17 Phantom_Hoover: that's cute 22:19:45 good story 22:20:03 Phantom_Hoover: one of the traditional student songs here has a "but bigger!" in the middle because of an instruction the printers missed 22:20:11 (that's the story anyway) 22:20:35 kmc: Publishing maths works fine without LaTeX if you have Plain TeX + AMS fonts, or even AMS-TeX. (I suppose LaTeX might not be good enough either for some things, unless you are using AMS-LaTeX.) 22:22:22 (Actually, even Plain TeX alone has many math fonts, although sometimes you might want to add AMS fonts) 22:22:49 olsner: clearly we are approaching someone making a limerick made solely out of proofreading notes 22:23:35 oerjan: obviously 22:26:47 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:27:27 first define determinants on matrices over a field F axiomatically as: alternating multilinear function (F^n)^n -> F s.t. det(I) = 1 <-- did you remember to prove that exists twh 22:27:57 also you only need F to be a commutative ring iirc 22:29:38 yes 22:29:42 "i forgot that part" 22:33:04 What do I do with an old expired passport? 22:33:26 Sell it to someone as a fake passport. 22:34:10 But the corners are cut to mark it as expired. 22:39:39 Honest Shachaf's Fake Passport: We cut corners and pass the savings on to YOU! 22:41:02 -!- sacje has joined. 22:41:18 -!- Candy92 has joined. 22:41:28 I AM MANUALLY ADDING LENS TO LAMBDABOT SO HELP ME GOD <-- finally snapped? 22:41:40 hey oerjan did you ever learn lens 22:42:15 somewhat 22:43:59 http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/emmental/EmmUnl.hs 22:51:03 newPosMap ^. mapping swapped? 22:55:38 yes, what about that? 22:56:54 oerjan: nice weed function 22:58:30 ...too tired to read my own code :/ 23:03:32 Sam knows that Pat doesn't know: therefore the number Sam knows is not the sum of two primes. (A, B, or both are composite) 23:03:32 Pat figures out the numbers now he knows Sam knows he doesn't know: therefore there's only one way to factor the product Pat knows into two numbers whose sum is not also the sum of two primes. 23:03:32 Sam figures out the numbers now he knows Pat knows them: therefore there's only one pair of number which add up to the number Sam knows whose product can be factored into two numbers whose sum is not also the sum of two primes. 23:03:38 Or something... 23:04:08 just write it out in lens 23:04:09 oh right that's what the weed functions did 23:05:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:05:59 bye 23:06:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:06:20 hi 23:06:22 grmbl 23:06:34 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:07:03 http://abload.de/img/dit83b2d.jpg 23:07:08 sry, wrong window 23:07:40 hagb4rd: :D 23:07:46 hi :P 23:07:52 i was expecting illegal porn. v. disappointed 23:08:02 sry bike, next time 23:08:14 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to partyb4rd. 23:08:17 well it _does_ say "fuck you" in german 23:08:20 yep 23:09:12 it's "how's your diet".."fuck you" 23:09:14 we are amused 23:09:18 glad 23:09:22 cu laters 23:09:27 the royal +v 23:09:29 need to get out 23:09:30 oerjan: can i petition for kmc to be devoiced 23:09:42 shachaf: sure, just ask elliott 23:09:44 oerjan: his nick is designed to be three letters long 23:09:44 it's my understanding that elliott is voice dictator for life 23:09:50 my alignment is getting messed up 23:10:00 petition the ad-hoc subcommittee on voicings 23:10:13 petitionmagic 23:10:55 hey remember partitionmagic 23:11:00 that was so good 23:11:01 yes 23:11:07 remember the floppy it could make 23:11:16 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:11:24 you could boot to the floppy and it had a gui and everything 23:11:44 i think I had a trial version of PartitionMagic that came with Red Hat Linux 6.0 in the back of a book about Red Hat Linux 6.0 23:12:06 shachaf: yeah like a fake Windows 95 GUI 23:12:08 it was the best 23:13:57 -!- DANIELA has joined. 23:14:18 `WELCOME DANIELA 23:14:21 `WELCOME DANIELA 23:14:24 DANIELA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 23:14:24 DANIELA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 23:14:25 :'( 23:15:43 nice 23:16:13 i wonder how many people have left our channel in disgust because the welcome wiki links don't work 23:16:35 `relcome works 23:16:38 ​works: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:16:57 Hmm, except for the period. It links to [[Main page.]] 23:17:03 That sounds like a great esolang name to me. 23:18:08 Truly. 23:20:53 it's a bit remarkable that no one has named something notable "main page" yet 23:24:47 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:22 -!- Candy92 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:32:37 -!- DANIELA has left. 23:39:17 today is alonzo church's \f x -> f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f x))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 23:41:56 have i mentioned that alonzo church's son dated haskell curry's daughter 23:42:03 (yes, but it cannot be mentioned enough) 23:42:10 were they hot 23:42:41 history does not, it seems, record 23:42:49 shame 23:43:20 > (\f x -> f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f(f (f x))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (*2) 1 23:43:21 :1:423: 23:43:21 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatche... 23:43:27 well fck it 23:43:44 ('th birthday) 23:46:06 f (u (c (k (i t)))) 23:46:26 how long can IRC channel topics be? asking for a friend 23:47:18 i started writing a more concise lambda term for 110 but ran out of give a fuck 23:47:36 390, according to the server, which might be lying 23:47:39 are there cool algorithms for finding the most concise lambda term for a given church numeral 23:47:50 01:06 CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390 ETRACE CPRIVMSG CNOTICE DEAF=D MONITOR=100 FNC 23:47:57 isn't it basically the kolmogorov complexity 23:48:16 basically. 23:48:22 probably 23:48:33 so the cool algorithm is fuck you got mine 23:48:40 i guess you could do something easyish like factoring 23:48:42 ok so lets say by 'most concise' i meant 'pretty concise' and only for small numbers 23:48:50 i was going to use binary 23:49:03 log is pretty concise 23:49:37 i got it working fine with 'let' in Haskell but transforming that to lambdas fails because lambda args are monomorphic 23:49:42 fucking types, am i right 23:51:11 let's go shopping 23:53:28 > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (d (s (d (s z))))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0 23:53:29 206 23:53:32 oops 23:53:55 > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d (s z))))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0 23:53:56 :1:56: parse error on input `)' 23:54:04 > (\d s z -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d (s z)))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f x -> x)(+1)0 23:54:05 110 23:54:14 v. good 23:55:33 > (\d s o -> d (s (d (s (d (s (d (d (s (d o))))))))))(\n f x -> n f (n f x))(\n f x -> f (n f x))(\f -> f)(+1)0 23:55:34 110 23:55:51 Phantom_Hoover: help i can't tell how joking you are 23:56:16 nooodl, i am not joking 23:56:39 i mean i might just be wrong, i am basing this off some random internet rumours 23:56:57 i can't find any citations at least... 23:57:09 it's hard to find stuff on the personal lives of these people 23:57:14 and don't quote me on the claim that they had a lovechild who went on to become 23:57:27 that sounds kind of dumbassed 23:57:28 http://importantshock.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/haskell-curry-yes-i-dated-his-daughter/ 23:57:40 if you want that you can just stick with the curies, not the curries 23:57:55 but let's face it, Bike 23:58:02 it's too perfect to not be true 23:58:11 a lovechild who went on to become steve yegge 23:58:52 a lovechild who went on to become benedict cumberbatch 23:59:00 is that guy real 23:59:07 are chickens real 23:59:26 oh maaaan 2013-06-15: 00:00:01 is nooodl real 00:00:15 `thanks chickens 00:00:17 Thanks, chickens. Thickens. 00:00:37 no^[1] 00:00:39 [1]: http://zapatopi.net/belgium/ 00:03:31 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Benedict_Cumberbatch_2011_(jpg).jpg/220px-Benedict_Cumberbatch_2011_(jpg).jpg 00:03:34 ok seriously 00:03:49 how can people be so enamoured with a man who looks this posh 00:05:47 http://redscharlach.tumblr.com/post/19565284869/otters-who-look-like-benedict-cumberbatch-a 00:07:07 the sherlock hair people really did a great job of making him look normal 00:07:21 the into darkness couldn't match them and it shows 00:09:16 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:14:51 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:16:08 Active Worlds is now free 00:20:25 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:23:26 active worlds free, real world still pretty oppressed 00:33:48 kmc: does +kmc indicate that your evil twin -kmc is on the loose 00:34:01 it means that he's really positive about what he's saying 00:34:24 +kmc and *kmc form a field 00:34:34 maybe he is the evil twin........... 00:34:35 so like um 00:34:43 if we collide +kmc and -cmk do we get annihilation? 00:34:55 kmc: what;s your spin 00:35:07 Fiora: cmk- 00:35:07 maybe it means i'm at PLUS ONE on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulgin_Rating_Scale 00:35:16 Fiora, i don't think you need to reverse them 00:35:21 no you do 00:35:24 because it's awesome 00:35:29 Phantom_Hoover: but, like, parity, right? 00:35:49 kmc: PLUS FOUR is p. great 00:36:05 Fiora, if you're going for a quantum mechanics thing then probably 00:36:07 you have been outlogicked 00:36:23 yeah good description 00:36:23 sorry I was making a bad antimatter joke ._. 00:37:11 Fiora: Did you hear of my new word, "antícheirocracy"? 00:37:17 o_o? 00:37:21 I don't think so 00:37:52 can you figure out what it means 00:38:02 shachaf, is that anti-(cheirocracy) 00:38:13 no 00:38:33 cheirocracy would be um... rule by asymmetry? 00:38:41 anti-rule-by-asymmetry? 00:39:12 antícheir or some variation means "thumb" hth 00:39:19 thumbocracy? 00:39:31 'cheirocracy' basically means 'rule by force' apparently 00:39:45 rule by giant talking thumbs 00:39:57 `pastelogs antícheirocracy 00:40:38 `run ls bin/*past* 00:40:40 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.509 00:40:42 bin/pastalog \ bin/pastaquote \ bin/paste \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/pastekarma \ bin/pastelog \ bin/pastelogs \ bin/pastenquotes \ bin/pastequotes \ bin/pastewisdom \ bin/pastlog 00:40:43 npt to be confused with "chairocracy", which is how Microsoft works. 00:41:30 oh 00:41:33 "rule of thumb" 00:41:36 shachaf: sit in the corner 00:41:47 (remember those jokes) (nostalgia) 00:41:55 Bike: hi 00:42:02 * kmc exploits content type sniffing on pastes to steal all your codu.org cookies 00:42:18 that's 00:42:22 that's amazingly amazingly horribly amazingh 00:42:45 * Fiora tries to hide her giggles while still at work 00:43:42 shachaf: sit in every corner 00:43:54 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 00:43:56 idgi re msft 00:44:33 @wn chairocracy 00:44:34 No match for "chairocracy". 00:44:35 chairs i guess 00:45:10 republican national convention joke 00:45:15 timely 00:45:37 kmc: "oldskool steve ballmer joke" hth 00:45:39 or maybe a ballmer joke? 00:47:31 i'm a conservative, the only ballmer jokes i tolerate are developers 00:47:44 Bike: how can you sit in every corner........in a perfectly round room 00:47:46 checkmate 00:48:05 s/every/the/ 00:49:09 with the power of calculus, there are infinite corners!! 00:49:50 the power of lies 00:50:58 oh no 00:51:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:51:51 czechmate 01:18:45 Eep. Saw an ad for Monster and confused it for Monster Cable for a second 01:20:57 I can't hear the mosquito tone :( 01:22:38 does that mean you are a mosquito 01:22:55 oh no 01:22:57 is that why 01:24:19 that would be sad because mosquitoes do not live very long 01:26:40 he's a long-lived mosquito 01:27:02 trying to think of a way to link this to the picture of him in a blood costume 01:27:57 mosquito tone? 01:28:08 The one you can only hear until you're 20-something 01:28:14 popular as a ringtone among teenaged fuckheads 01:28:35 those bastards, making it so i can't be annoyed by their phones 01:28:49 i want a ringtone based on the shepard tone 01:28:56 (s/the/a/????) 01:29:02 maybe i should make one 01:29:06 you should make one 01:29:08 using sox maybe 01:29:17 or just like 'write a c program' 01:29:19 oh 01:29:37 it says that 18-24 can only hear up to ~16khz but I can hear the hihgest 18khz one fine 01:29:43 I guess this means I'm actually 17 01:29:47 my fortune cookie fortune: "☺ Handsome is that handsome dose. ☺" 01:29:48 it varies 01:29:48 sic 01:29:59 Fiora: maybe your headphones are broken 01:30:19 kmc: it's annoying because then they set it off in class and the other students have to convince the teacher that somebody's being a dick 01:30:38 shrug 01:30:43 let them work it out amongst themselves 01:30:45 stanford prison style 01:31:05 a good precedent 01:34:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone_paradox hm i didn't know the absolute pitch bit 01:41:12 The computer program's strategy seems to always attack 74-gun ships. My strategy is to attack whichever ship the opponent has less of, and to otherwise attack many ships instead of always the same one (using 74-gun ships when attacking many and 64-gun ships when focusing my attacks on heavily damaged ships), making refit and extra damage cards worse for them. 01:43:29 it says that 18-24 can only hear up to ~16khz but I can hear the hihgest 18khz one fine 01:43:54 back when i was a teenage fuckhead i knew a 50-odd-year-old who could hear it 01:43:59 it was baffling 01:44:27 the chosen one... 01:47:11 "Episode 1 will be released to the public in: 01:47:11 13 minutes " 01:47:19 The seconds I guess I didn't manage to copy 01:47:26 (Episode 1 of RvB season 11) 01:48:19 no no no don't justify it I will use this as proof I'm not old yet <.< 01:48:48 zzo38: do you win with this strategy? 01:48:59 Fiora: you're older than i am, therefore you're old 01:49:02 it's very simple logic 01:49:19 ;_; 01:49:27 kmc: Not always, but it seems to help a bit. 01:50:18 (Note that you can only make one attack per turn, and only attack one ship per turn, too. Also, some cards cause your own ships to catch fire and hit icebergs and sink and whatever.) 01:51:26 Phantom_Hoover: The quoted figures are probabilistic. 01:51:39 The typical 50 year old can't hear 18kHz. 01:51:41 gosh kmc 01:51:44 er 01:51:45 But individual 50 year olds sure can. 01:51:47 *gosh pikhq 01:51:53 never would've guessed that 01:52:01 * pikhq is proud to be a provider of obvious facts 01:52:57 My dad thinks I might have hearing loss. I think I might have earwax 01:53:04 Take Our Internet "Real Age" Quiz (using psychoacoustic observations) 01:53:55 * Phantom_Hoover looks up tritone paradox on youtube 01:54:12 i like how all of the demonstrations have a comment pointing out that there's an obvious discontinuity 01:54:16 `addquote <+kmc> we are amused <+kmc> the royal +v 01:54:19 1052) <+kmc> we are amused <+kmc> the royal +v 01:54:32 you can't... addquote yourself/ 01:54:37 However, if they have an equal number 74-guns and 64-guns, attacking the 74-guns ships is usually better since those ships can cause more damage with an attack. However, you need the correct 74-gun broadside or 64-gun broadside card for a kind of ship to attack, so if you think they have all 64-guns cards and the deck has mostly 64-guns cards then try attacking 64-guns ships. 01:54:42 kmc: i assume the age test works by playing "Satisfaction" and "Runaway" back to back and asking which is "real music" 01:54:56 it is my royal prerogative 01:55:05 Bike: what if we don't know what either of them are 01:55:15 Fiora: you nerd 01:55:22 sorry 01:55:28 (you've probably heard both of them at some point though) 01:55:38 I don't know Runaway. 01:55:40 Bike: have you considered that that's pretty rude to say all the time 01:55:44 Definitely know Satisfaction though. 01:55:45 No 01:55:53 pikhq: "Let's have a toast to the douchebags" 01:55:54 i only know satisfaction from the sr3 soundtrack 01:56:01 wikipedia finds like 15 songs called runaway 01:56:06 i like a fair amount of music that was recoded decades before my birth 01:56:07 I guess satisfaction is the rolling stones one? 01:56:11 i assume it's the kanye west one? 01:56:15 That'd be the one, Fiora. 01:56:19 Yes 01:56:19 ahahaha 01:56:24 runaway is... a ... del shannon song? 01:56:27 from 1961 01:56:35 laughing 01:56:42 r u ok 01:56:45 ??? 01:57:10 i won't lie, i'm very confused 01:57:21 As they say, "a good composer is a dead composer" 01:57:32 a decomposer 01:58:14 i was just making a joke about old people not liking rap 01:58:17 can't say that went well tbh 01:58:43 What if you think both or neither of them is "real music"? 01:58:58 You're a lich, I guess 01:59:41 or maybe whatever Fiora is 02:00:09 pretty sure old people wouldn't be fond of satisfaction either 02:01:47 * kmc listens to Runaway 02:02:10 zzo38: what's this game that has 74-gun ships and whatnot? 02:02:43 tswett: Ship Of The Line, on the X-BIT BBS. 02:03:05 what am I o_O 02:03:17 Fiora: you're probably a human. 02:03:52 Fiora is a lich? 02:04:29 I don't think so... 02:04:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:05:16 yeah these are both 'real music' 02:05:31 KMC HAS SPOKEN 02:05:35 um, I mean, I don't think I'm a lich. 02:05:43 kmc: HAVE SPOKEN hth 02:05:46 well, guess kmc is a fiora 02:05:48 Fiora: Have you double-checked? 02:05:58 It could happen to you. 02:06:08 * Fiora looks down, glances under her sleeves and at her hands 02:06:11 liches stay the same age forever 02:06:13 think about it! 02:06:23 * Fiora sees soft and warm "skin" that looks pretty alive 02:06:40 "alive" is just another word for "aging" 02:06:45 :< 02:06:49 are you calling me old 02:06:54 this is getting p. creepy 02:06:58 imo give it serious consideration hth 02:07:04 Fiora: you're older than you were this morning 02:07:27 there's a song about that.............. 02:07:52 shachaf: am i right to conclude that this person in ##crypto is doing something shady AND will probably fuck up the crypto if left to their own devices 02:07:57 so i should stop helpying them 02:08:37 Am I calling you old? 02:08:54 I am pretty sure I'm not a lich though staying the same age forever would be pretty nice 02:08:54 zzo38 is timeless 02:09:08 maybe zzo38 is yoda 02:09:15 kmc: I'm not sure whether what they're doing is shady, but I doubt they'll get their cryptography thing right no matter what. 02:09:26 Mostly because they seem to be trying to do something impossible? 02:09:31 what is their cryptography thing 02:09:34 i like impossible somethings 02:09:45 Fiora: have you considered lichification 02:09:53 I don't really know how to do that :/ 02:10:00 I also kind of like being alive at least somewhat 02:10:00 Staying the same age forever would be pretty stupid. 02:10:32 Have you ever tried any of the alternatives? 02:10:42 I don't think any of them let you go back 02:10:48 Imo if you did that, you would only exist for a single instant hth. 02:10:50 um 02:11:01 resurrection? reïncarnation? etc 02:11:09 lots of options 02:11:11 a-anyways um I don't think this is really a comfortable subject but 02:11:27 ok 02:12:52 hey why aren't you in ##fiora "the good channel for fiora discussions" 02:13:04 because nobody ever really talked there or anything... 02:13:20 um 02:13:24 some people did 02:13:42 obviously they only talk when you aren't there hth 02:13:58 shachaf: oh, by the way, did you hear about summa technologica coming out in english. 02:14:08 technoligiae 02:14:11 god i hate latin 02:14:14 gimme summa that technologica 02:14:39 *o 02:15:15 Bike: Nope. 02:17:48 shachaf: http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/the-art-of-conjecturing/ 02:27:31 I have "Runaway" stuck in my head now. 02:30:00 kmc: did you read _The Door Into Summer_ 02:30:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:31:49 shachaf, imo read banks? 02:32:40 Phantom_Hoover: imo why 02:33:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 02:33:14 imo because his books were very good 02:34:37 I thought of something, if you have a logic which you add another symbol and a rule to introduce it: ${}\vdash x\over{}\vdash\natural x$ where x is any single formula. Is there such things? 02:35:06 Phantom_Hoover: imo which books 02:35:12 uh 02:35:25 start with player of games, read use of weapons after that 02:35:38 Phantom_Hoover: imo i'll give you my address and you can mail me a book and i'll read it hth 02:39:04 How much will the postage cost? 02:39:12 Also, how much will the book cost? 02:40:00 I'm not sure. 02:40:23 I could send Phantom_Hoover a book in exchange if he wants. 02:40:40 i know better than to trust you with my address shachaf 02:43:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:46:06 shachaf: i didn't 02:46:31 @ask phantom_hoover why not just lie about your return address 02:46:31 Consider it noted. 02:46:50 it's like he's never even mailed antrhax bombs before, honestly 02:50:17 he prefers bricks afaiu 03:02:12 A terminal object is an initial object in the opposite category hth. I'm in #tswett and I have been nearly continuously for two months. 03:02:35 help 03:02:38 tswett: ? 03:02:55 kmc knows all about terminal objects 03:03:00 from working on mosh 03:03:14 Bike: hth 03:13:31 c.c 03:13:38 or should i say v.v 03:13:59 ?? 03:14:01 what's v.v 03:14:05 downcast 03:14:25 do you need rtti for that 03:17:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 03:26:11 shachaf: hey your city has the fancy gunshot location system doesn't it 03:26:22 does it? 03:26:29 i heard a gunshot outside the other day 03:26:42 what's that 03:26:44 i don't know about a system, though 03:26:47 yeah i think http://www.shotspotter.com/ was developed in Menlo Park and deployed in EPA 03:26:52 one of the first deployments I mean 03:26:57 shachaf: do you know where it came from 03:27:27 no 03:27:34 What happens if you have both pull-up resistor and pull-down resistor on the same thing? 03:29:14 you waste energy 03:29:58 wow that's pretty rude kmc 03:30:01 Yes, I would certainly think so, but what would be the logical result? 03:30:04 zzo38 is not waste energy 03:30:40 if you have +5V -/\/Ra\/\- input pin -/\/Rb\/\- GND then the voltage at the input pin is 5 * (Ra / Rb) 03:31:11 wow, i've found something that looks worse linearly than math. 03:31:14 each logic family (e.g. TTL, CMOS) specifies a range of valid input voltages for a 0 and another range for 1 03:31:32 if the input pin voltage falls outside both of those ranges then it's Undefined Behavior 03:31:44 O, so it depends on the logic family of electronics. 03:31:56 yes, and the size of the resistors involved 03:32:04 where by 'size' i mean 'resistance' 03:33:56 well the actual analog behavior is well defined innit 03:34:23 The analog behavior is the calculation like 5 * (Ra / Rb) and so on I guess 03:34:49 who needs logic when you have electrodynamics 03:34:55 If this is the calculation then it must be 5 if it is equal, I guess. 03:35:50 But, maybe there won't be enough current or enough power or impedance or whatever? Are those necessary too? 03:36:41 isn't that just two resistors in series? that can't be very taxing. 03:45:39 for resistors, impedance and resistance are the same thing 03:46:03 as for current, you need very little current to shove a CMOS input around. other logic families may vary 03:46:16 i'm too young and too shitty an EE to know anything about other logic families ;P 03:47:39 man AC circuitry is way hard isn't it 03:47:50 fckin complex arithmetic 03:47:59 complex arithmetic ain't shit 03:48:08 quaternions 4 lyfe 03:55:08 fucjk i can't even tell you how a transistor works 03:58:09 the guy who invented them got /two/ nobel prizes i think i'ts ok if you're not on that level dude 03:58:21 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 03:58:35 who shockley? 03:58:53 bardeen 03:59:05 oh that guy 03:59:09 good for him 03:59:11 My electronics teacher in school once tried to explain how a transistor works, but didn't do a very good job of that or of most other things. Some of the students weren't very good at it either. The teacher once said the simplest atom is the water atom, and had a schematic for blinking lights, which was wrong in a few ways. 03:59:11 "the balding guy" 03:59:21 shockley was an asshole anyway 03:59:32 lol eugenics advocate huh 03:59:36 yep 04:00:05 There was an extra wire, and the transistors were labeled T1 and T2; I told him they should be Q1 and Q2 but he didn't believe me. I built it as it was, and mine didn't work even though the other students had it working. And then, I realized that the schematic was wrong so I had to cut one of the traces, and then it worked. 04:00:43 i read a nice book debunking a lot of racist stuff the other day 04:00:51 and eugenics i guess 04:01:00 published 1911 "very influential" 04:01:29 do they claim that eugenics doesn't work 04:01:31 or just that it's bad 04:01:40 that it doesn't work 04:01:43 The teacher gave us resistors from some container with various resistors. Some of us had resistors with five or six bands, and he told us to discard them because they were diodes and not resistors. 04:01:47 why not 04:02:17 the main comparison i remember that i thought was interesting was that when you compare it to livestock breeding, the major difference is that livestock are bred not only to have traits but also to have those traits breed true 04:02:28 which is not true in human populations except for very weird situations 04:02:44 What kind of very weird situations? 04:02:48 interesting 04:04:09 zzo38: the example given was some german (maybe? i forget) population that was "bred" for being spearmen and they got taller over time, or something likee that 04:04:46 there's also all the problems about heritability of intelligence, i guess, but IQ stuff wasn't very well developed in 1911 anyway 04:05:05 i haven't read Mismeasure of Man but i'd probably recommend that on that topic 04:05:46 it's certainly not as simple as "kids born to smart parents are guaranteed to be smart" or the same with s/smart/dumb/ 04:05:49 I suppose if they want to do that they can, but they should only do it voluntarily. If you do not want to be bred then you shouldn't. Also, it is more complicated than just that; a lot of these traits aren't done like this anyways. 04:06:04 not even remotely, no 04:06:23 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 04:06:31 another thing that was very interesting was detailed information on morphological racial differences, which i'd never seen before 04:06:37 Some people may have thought it does but really a lot of it isn't. 04:06:50 people from Tuscany have this average and mean height, while people from Rome have this (different!) average and mean 04:07:05 Eh, IQ was only really intended as a diagnostic tool for certain sorts of mental deficits anyways. 04:07:08 er, average and std. deviation. 04:07:41 pikhq: Well, yes, IQ works to do that, at least. Not everything else they call IQ. 04:07:51 I also found out that native Australians are pretty distant phylogenically from other non-African populations, which I didn't know 04:08:06 i.e. it only even functions within its design to detect disability... 04:08:13 zzo38: Aye. People are idiots. 04:08:24 but /how idiotic/ i need numbers pikhq! 04:08:35 Bike: I guess that would sort of imply they came over when there was a land bridge or something and evolved for a (relatively speaking) long period without mixing? 04:09:03 a land bridge to australia? not /that/ long ago, good god 04:09:20 wasn't there one during the ice age? 04:09:22 but yeah, relatively early migrants from africa 04:09:32 because of the lower sea levels 04:09:35 I define IQ as whatever your score would be on an ideal IQ test (which cannot actually exist), where 100 is average. 04:09:41 oh, like zealandia 04:09:43 i dunno 04:09:45 It isn't the same as intelligence even though there is somewhat related. 04:09:56 http://www.planetaryvisions.com/thumbs_new/2226_ban.jpg 04:10:08 i thought you meant like when australia and antarctica were connected, lol 04:10:24 ohhhh no not that XD 04:10:26 australia and asia 04:10:32 whoa shit, i didn't know indonesia was that shallow. 04:11:49 related but not really: malagasy is an austronesian language that is the craziest shit 04:12:51 «It is believed that first human migration to Australia was achieved when this landmass formed part of the Sahul continent, connected to the island of New Guinea via a land bridge. It is also possible that people came by boat across the Timor Sea. The exact timing of the arrival of the ancestors of the Indigenous Australians has been a matter of dispute among archaeologists. The most generally accepted date for first arrival is between 40 00 04:13:15 so i guess you're right fiora. have you considered a career in paleoanthropology 04:20:13 um... I don't think so 04:20:47 shame, i think you've got the knack 04:21:06 I was just guessing 04:25:14 http://www.www.extra-www.org/ 04:31:21 Oh, hey, nice. 04:31:26 example.com resolves. 04:31:28 Didn't realize. 04:44:03 http://24.media.tumblr.com/f5a1ce60a792a7ea198f55b208f2be57/tumblr_moes1iBMYN1r59os8o1_400.jpg the new animal ccrossing game has latex support, supposedly 04:45:06 Rhoa 04:45:08 *Whoa 04:45:51 i look forward to seeing advances in HoTT made by cute animal things 04:47:38 H 04:47:40 HoTT? 04:47:50 homotopy type theory 04:48:00 a thing some people in here like that i have no idea about 04:50:03 a math thing* 04:50:32 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:50:39 main :: IQ () 05:12:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:25:21 crickets chirp 05:31:34 O, now it is IQ. 05:32:12 type IQ a = () -> IO a 05:32:23 ⸘who's the function now‽ 05:44:30 not i 05:46:07 kiunaf 05:46:40 main ist keine Funktion 05:47:11 TikZ ist kein Zeichenprogramm 05:54:09 kmc: since bloom filters usually don't use cryptographic hash functions are there situations where you can attack them in interesting ways 05:54:14 what are they used for anyway 05:56:02 the main application I know of is reducing the number of misses on an expensive cache 05:56:55 What sort of cache? 05:57:10 whatever sort 05:57:12 caches anywhere 05:57:22 or any kind of lookup data structure, doesn't have to be a cache 05:57:44 when i interviewed at Mozilla we talked about using Bloom filters to speed up the matching of elements to CSS rules 06:00:46 -!- partyb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:01:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:09:12 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:37 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:00:06 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:23:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:28:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:30:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:44:13 @nietzsche_ebooks 07:45:56 oh my resistor equation before was wrong 07:46:21 zzo38: ^ 07:46:26 i said 5 * (Ra / Rb) meaning the voltage is 5 for equal resistors, but it should be 2.5 07:46:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:47:32 point is the 5V drop is split between the two resistors linearly according to their resistances 07:47:46 hth 07:49:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:53:25 hmm, I dreamt about greeting people 07:56:01 -!- nooga_ has joined. 08:17:43 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:54:23 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:13:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:23:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:52:34 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 10:01:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:21:26 -!- Lymia has joined. 10:31:22 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 10:36:49 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:07:16 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:17:09 @tell ais523 GHC actually goes to a lot of trouble to uncurry functions for efficiency (passing multiple arguments at once in registers and so on). Functions in Haskell work the way they do for user convenience much more than compiler convenience. 11:17:09 Consider it noted. 11:35:37 GHC does a lot work to optimise code 12:18:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:19:25 -!- conehead has joined. 12:56:51 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 13:14:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:26:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:26:36 -!- augur has joined. 13:30:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:34:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:37:52 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:58:59 -!- augur has joined. 14:03:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:08:05 -!- itsy has joined. 14:23:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:35:23 wait, wait 14:35:28 why doesn't Gregor have voice 14:35:54 kmc stole it 14:36:01 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 14:36:15 thank god 14:41:48 omg what is going on here 14:42:17 what do you neeed that fot 14:42:23 *for 14:43:32 egalité mes amis 14:44:08 yes 14:44:14 imo hagb4rd should have voice 14:45:32 yea.. i would sing for you all night 14:45:49 i wish i had boobs too 14:46:02 but that's another story 14:47:58 Is this... is this something you want to talk about? 14:49:08 no, i want to blame kmc and gregor for their lack of integrity 14:50:02 I don't think either kmc or Gregor make a habit of disintegrating boobs? 14:50:22 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:51:11 well 14:51:41 no, but for real..why? 14:51:51 is that a joke? 14:52:57 A somewhat obtuse one, I apologize 14:53:19 no, not you're cool attriq 14:53:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v hagb4rd. 14:53:46 i mean why do they expose admin state? 14:53:50 aarrg 14:53:53 -!- hagb4rd has left. 14:53:56 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 14:53:59 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:53:59 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v hagb4rd. 14:54:03 dude 14:54:05 Boobs expose admin state? 14:54:08 looks like it's your destiny 14:54:18 hi 14:54:20 hi 14:54:23 hi 14:54:27 hi 14:54:29 hi 14:54:40 just like the good old days 14:54:46 too bad shachaf isn't here eh 14:55:14 does this mean I get op? :o 14:55:27 do you have boobs? 14:55:46 um, yes, I guess I do? 14:55:59 well..make my day! 14:56:01 :p 14:56:52 what does that mean...? 14:56:52 -!- nooga_ has joined. 14:56:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v hagb4rd. 14:57:08 it means he doesn't get voice any more 14:57:28 who cares about voice while having boobs 14:57:33 okay 14:57:43 are you drunk or something 14:57:43 i see you just don't understand :/ 14:57:54 i mean you always sound like you're drunk, but... 14:58:05 no.. i'm fine 14:58:16 just chatting 14:58:33 how are you ehirdboy? 14:59:16 we have to work on your soft skills 14:59:37 Is quilting a soft skill 15:00:24 quilting, knitting, embroidery 15:01:02 what exactly does voice do...? 15:01:15 nothing unless the channel is +m 15:01:18 oh. 15:01:24 oh maybe it cancels out +q too? 15:01:25 so him getting/notgetting voice doesn't... actually mean anything 15:01:33 no 15:01:37 it does not 15:01:39 I had op once 15:01:42 but it's a stigmate 15:01:44 it's a figurehead position! like the queen 15:01:52 I kicked kmc because he was a bear 15:04:18 `quote attention 15:04:24 600) Vorpal: I was paying too much attention to elliott and not enough to my HP \ 1005) I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 15:11:09 i missed the hi 15:11:09 hi 15:11:27 hi 15:11:59 hi 15:12:02 hi 15:12:28 no 15:13:52 hi 15:19:56 great creepy m83 rmx by Trentemøller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfyT56_kmTE ..enjoy 15:20:11 a masterpiece 15:23:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:23:37 -!- Bike has joined. 15:26:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:30:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:31:32 talking about soft skills.. do you know DISCO? http://disco-tools.eu/disco2_portal/terms.php 15:32:41 i'm pretty good at disco dancing 15:33:30 it may help while creating profiles, CV.. especially on the global market 15:50:01 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:50:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:02:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:11:40 -!- muslim3arby has joined. 16:12:34 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 16:12:38 -!- muslim3arby has quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))). 16:13:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7tt3ULj8Xg 16:13:39 * hagb4rd sets mode to *screensaver* 16:14:28 "good music is better" 16:17:35 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:18:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:18:31 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:32:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:34:13 -!- heroux has joined. 16:35:36 When did Magnatune turn evil? 16:36:06 three thousand moons ago, on the Day of Darkness 16:36:54 Used to be able to listen to the music ad-free online 16:37:02 Used to be able to buy individual songs 16:37:05 and albums 16:37:31 There's at least one album that relied on that 16:37:41 (On not having ads in the middle of each track) 16:45:18 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: abandoning elliott, wish me luck~). 17:18:24 Phantom_Hoover: hi 17:21:44 HELO 17:22:29 Phantom_Hoover: do you want to see me fuck around with lambdabot 17:23:16 yeah sure 17:23:29 #bike 17:24:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:30:06 What would be the best way to prove that 9 is more than 4 17:31:34 9 = S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S (S 0))))))))) 17:31:39 4 = S (S (S (S O)))) 17:31:42 hth 17:32:32 forall n, n <= n; forall m n, m <= n -> m <= S n 17:32:52 m < n = S m <= n 17:33:01 m > n = n < m 17:33:31 `thanks elliott 17:33:33 Thanks, elliott. Thelliott. 17:33:44 eagerly awaiting your proof 17:34:45 you haven't defined < and > 17:37:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:41:54 kmc: Yes, your equation for the voltage looked wrong to me too 17:44:15 Phantom_Hoover: er, yes I did? 17:44:18 in terms of <= 17:44:28 TNT has no < and > so it is defined in terms of what it does have. TNT doesn't have <= either. 17:44:36 Phantom_Hoover: perhaps my use of = confuses you 17:44:41 it was intended as a definitional 17:44:50 (m < n) := (S m <= n) 17:46:25 a < b : exists c. a + S c = b 17:48:57 elliott, does http://hpaste.org/89968 look right? 17:49:09 I am unsure how to format this kind of proof 17:50:19 Taneb: you probably need explicit quantification for the cases of each proposition, given that you say "n <= m" but then give a case for "n <= S m" 17:50:40 i also recommend using digits throughout since the nested Ses is ugly :P 17:50:42 *are ugly 17:50:57 but sure, looks right to me 17:57:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:02:02 Phantom_Hoover, finished season 1 18:06:11 very good, now watch season 2 18:11:21 of what? 18:14:02 farscape 18:32:23 -!- itsy has joined. 18:48:47 Phantom_Hoover, finished first ep of season 2 18:48:56 Should go out to get a haircut soon 18:49:05 Haven't had a haircut in about 9 months 18:49:14 maybe have a haircut then 18:49:33 that's so crazy it might work 18:50:24 the next time i get my hair cut well I need to take a picture and keep it on my phone so that at subsequent haircuts I can just be like "DO THIS" 18:50:51 i just go for "make it half as long" 18:50:52 i'm not good at describing how i want my hair cut, but i'm not very picky either 18:51:02 Did that and also had the person write down what they did 18:51:09 hair cuts are for losers, hope this helps 18:54:05 I have made a sequent calculus for Turing machines; can a sequent calculus be made for sokoban, and for chess, etc? 18:54:59 i assume so 18:55:44 you should make a sequent calculus for sequent calculii 18:56:13 kmc having voice is so reassuring 18:56:19 lol 18:56:38 kmc: Do you know how to make a sequent calculus for sequent calculii? 18:57:15 elliott: in these days of crisis it's important to have a strong leader 18:57:31 i promise to give up my emergency powers as soon as the crisis is over 18:57:33 okay, guys 18:57:49 something to read to really understand monads? 18:58:10 you mean in the context of Haskell? 18:58:16 yes 18:58:30 do you http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ#The_M-word 18:58:36 I understand it by understanding category theory a little bit and seeing how it is related to Haskell. 18:58:38 lol :D 18:58:39 er scratch the first two words of that 18:58:41 just read my link 18:59:23 that's less an explanation of monads and more an attempt to debunk various myths 18:59:38 but I think the myths and misunderstanding are usually the big obstacle 18:59:49 in the end Monad is just the name of a pretty simple typeclass in the standard library 19:00:02 kmc: Yes, that is mainly it. 19:00:12 http://monads.haskell.cz/html/index.html has some examples of different standard monads and what they can be used for 19:00:30 so do the later chapters of http://learnyouahaskell.com/chapters 19:00:40 kmc: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/All_About_Monads is canonical link i believe 19:00:43 re monads.haskell.cz 19:00:44 ok 19:06:16 I heard monads are like burritos or space suits full of nuclear waste. Is that true? 19:06:20 lol :D 19:06:49 myname: I don't think so. 19:07:33 i wrote that FAQ and i think a bit of my frustration with haskell myths shows through :3 19:07:44 Maybe it helps some people, to understand it like that. I find to understand the mathematics of it, helps a bit more than those kind of things. However, best is to see that, it is one class used for common operations of some types in Haskell. 19:08:20 These analogies are not helpful. See "Abstraction, intuition, and the 'monad tutorial fallacy"'. 19:08:23 kmc: good quote nesting 19:08:34 fuck 19:08:41 wonder if i can blame pandoc somehow 19:09:01 going to end kmc's career with this juicy mistake 19:09:09 nobody will ever trust him again!! 19:09:28 :< 19:11:01 rip 19:11:26 he might even lose his voice 19:11:46 zzo38: well, yeah, i'd prefer understanding the mathematics 19:12:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:12:34 the special connection between mathematics and Haskell is overrated 19:12:49 you think? 19:13:01 one thing i like about haskell is this 19:13:02 kmc: disagree. the idea that it is scary and mysterious and complicated is overrated 19:13:04 myname: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(category_theory) 19:13:07 but the connection is strong 19:13:23 it gets played up a lot both by detractors who want an excuse not to learn Haskell, and by excited newbies who don't know what they're talking about 19:13:27 myname: After you read it, you can follow the link at the top of the article for more description of how it is related to computer programming. 19:13:58 note i said 'special connection', programming in general is deeply connected to maths, but the idea that you need some huge maths knowledge to use Haskell that isn't necessary for other languages is ridiculous 19:14:20 you do need to learn new /concepts/ for Haskell but they aren't really more or less "mathematical" than other programming language concepts 19:14:28 You don't need some huge maths knowledge to use Haskell but it can help to understand it. 19:14:31 sure 19:14:34 (and I worry that mathematics in general, and the mathematics that is relevant to Haskell specifically, has its reputation harmed by being quick to decry the idea that haskell is "mathy", because it often comes out like "you don't need to know about weird category theory category morphism cococofunctors!!!!", which is just an insult to CT) 19:14:43 there are a lot of cool connections if you want to go looking for them 19:15:00 doesn't mean you need them to get shit done 19:15:07 This mathematical stuff is what I like about Haskell programming 19:15:15 (and generally feeds antiintellectualism in programmer culture: someone says "haskell is scary because of the maths" and your response is "don't worry, it's not scary, no maths here" -- implicitly accepting that "maths" is a reason something can be scary!) 19:15:17 different people like different things about Haskell 19:15:28 elliott: fair points 19:15:43 er, generic "your", fwiw 19:16:03 still I want to go after the idea that you need to "understand category theory" or even "understand monads" (with a small m) to use Haskell 19:16:38 I think of it more like: you can learn Haskell, and you'll be learning mathematics, because Haskell has a deep connection to mathematics and exposes you to a lot of it, whether you realise it or not. it's not additional work you have to perform to "understand Haskell", rather it's additional gain you get out of learning Haskell 19:16:46 mm 19:16:49 this isn't to say that learning Haskell maeks you a CT whiz or whatever 19:17:06 the connections aren't as simplistic as that 19:17:26 kmc: i agree it's an important fight 19:17:31 Well, of course you don't need to understand; actually you don't even need to understand the Monad type class except for a little bit which is how it is used with IO monad. 19:17:35 just wish the weapons used were less heavy-handed 19:17:55 Haskell community also makes a lot of claims that don't pan out, e.g. "We can prove things in the type system! Curry-Howard!" "but isn't every type inhabited by ⊥" 19:18:18 "Haskell is a great language for static analysis!" "name one static analyzer besides the GHC typechecker" 19:18:22 sure 19:18:42 C is a shit language for static analysis but there are loads of static analyzers for C because it's industrially important 19:18:42 (fwiw, I haven't seen anyone talk about proving things except from a newbie-asking-a-question POV, but may be sample error) 19:18:57 kmc: "haskell is a great language for mental analysis" :) 19:22:03 but you know, engineering effort is trivial, so the fact that someone *could* write a static analyzer for Haskell is just as good as the dozens of existing static analyzers for other languages 19:23:32 that's a #haskell thing for sure 19:24:03 i remember someone was talking about being tied to the JVM and the answer was like "you're an idiot for using the JVM, just write a custom compiler from all your JVM code to Haskell and get it working on your MLoC codebase on every platform" 19:24:50 kmc, I guess other languages that would be good with static analysis, like Racket, that doesn't mean that that's a good reason to go with that approach to metaprogramming if no one is going to build tools for it... 19:25:01 Although actually, I guess Typed Racket counts 19:25:17 the Haskell tooling situation is kind of disappointing 19:25:28 the fact that the only declarative debugger is bitrotted :/ 19:26:20 kmc: i think #haskell's problems are more mundane these days, at least :) 19:26:23 ok 19:26:32 well done new #haskell mods 19:26:33 (not necessarily a good thing :P) 19:26:39 what are the new problems 19:26:55 okay 19:27:00 first thing i learned 19:27:07 category theory is strange 19:27:07 mostly noise and outright trolling, I'd say 19:27:17 though the stereo and bad answes are still there 19:27:32 it just feels like the bad answers are more boring now :P 19:28:00 bummer 19:28:20 well, I don't know 19:28:28 stereo? 19:28:31 I just mean that the number of specific weird memes that people parrot seems to be decreasing 19:28:36 perhaps inevitably as the channel grows bigger 19:28:42 how big is it now 19:28:45 1k users 19:28:48 jesus 19:28:50 1035 right now 19:28:50 i don't understand 19:28:53 top 5 on freenode i think 19:29:19 anyway, it might just be that less popular weird memes die out and other ones grow stronger, rather than an absolute decrease in the number of weird-meme-parrotting 19:29:30 why does a strange language that not very many people actually use have such a huge number of IRC lurkers 19:29:53 well, commercial haskell is getting more prominent, I think. especially with e.g. FP Complete and stuff now 19:30:14 kmc: and also, Haskell has quite a strong presence in university courses 19:30:21 guess so 19:30:22 and a lot of people join for that kind of thing 19:30:32 (sometimes in a blatantly "do my homework" for me sense) 19:31:07 most people in the channel never talk though 19:31:15 and i think most people who show up to ask a specific question don't hang around 19:31:46 not sure though 19:32:01 yeah 19:34:32 some of the things I complain about might just be things that happened once and really pissed me off 19:34:35 rather than recurring patterns 19:34:42 some of them are definitely recurring patterns though 19:34:54 you should join to refine your sample!! 19:35:42 -!- Koen_ has joined. 19:36:45 worth a try 19:38:14 `? monad 19:38:16 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 19:38:34 i should really sit down and figure out how that statement is true one day... 19:38:45 nid wyf yn y swyddfa? that sounds similar to the "pleidol wyf i'm gwlad" from british one-pound coins 19:38:49 `? endofunctor 19:38:51 Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 19:38:59 nooodl: it's pretty simple 19:39:05 it's more correct to say they're monoid *objects*, no? 19:39:21 kmc: i don't think so 19:39:21 i'm guessing the binary op. is >=>? 19:39:24 eh wikipedia says they're synonyms 19:39:30 nooodl: no 19:39:31 no no no 19:39:41 people relate the `? monad quip with (>=>) forming a monoid with return all the time 19:39:47 and it's completely wrong 19:39:56 you need to generalise your notion of "monoid" 19:40:00 oops 19:40:08 the kind of "monoid" being used here is one that exists "in a monoidal category" 19:40:22 rather than just a value and a function in Set 20:02:55 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:13:12 nooodl, it's like, return :: a -> (m a) is in a sense the identity element 20:13:39 and join :: (m (m a)) -> (m a) is the monoid operation 20:14:02 whoa what 20:14:17 return is the family of identity morphisms of the Kleisli category. 20:14:34 join isn't binary 20:14:38 no 20:14:39 maybe i should look up what a monoidal category 20:14:41 +is 20:14:52 The composition is (<=<) 20:15:03 but it operates on (m (m a)) 20:15:13 the two m's are the binary part, essentially 20:15:42 Yes, that part forms a monoid, too 20:16:05 join :: (m . m) ~> m 20:16:10 mappend :: (m , m) -> m 20:16:13 Or something like that. 20:17:00 ooh! http://stackoverflow.com/a/3870310 this explains it pretty well 20:17:13 "...with product × replaced by composition of endofunctors" <-- like, this is pretty crucial 20:17:57 Note that product in a monoid is also called composition. 20:18:22 I like how the answer below that is incredibly awful 20:18:24 It's just in a different category. 20:18:32 anyway, http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/11/from-monoids-to-monads.html 20:18:33 read that 20:19:15 elliott: i like how it doesn't even mention the word "endofunctor" 20:19:50 I like how it has 81 points and a lot of people talking about how great it is. 20:26:00 elliott, wait 20:26:08 is <#> a standard operator or something 20:27:15 <£> 20:27:19 Phantom_Hoover: He defines it in that article. 20:27:30 Phantom_Hoover: it's defined later 20:27:52 kmc: why are you voiced 20:27:58 great writing 20:28:13 do you think you're better than us 20:28:22 i don't remember why 20:29:18 kmc got drunk and the next thing he knew he woke up voiced 20:29:24 or should i say he got drugz #drugz 20:29:27 02:36 <+ion> A number of channels use +v as the idiot flag. 20:29:44 #haskell-ops does that 20:29:59 (the joke is me and shachaf are +v in #haskell-ops, hth) 20:30:14 the joke is that ops are +v in #haskell-ops 20:30:34 is that #haskell-ops bold 20:30:42 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:30:44 no 20:31:01 oops 20:31:03 it looks bold 20:31:10 bold and daring 20:31:40 courageous and innovative 20:32:21 ops reinvented 20:32:51 ops that respect craftsmanship (am i doing this right) 20:33:11 #haskell-ops #haskell-ops 20:33:21 respect isn't enough you have to celebrate craftsmanship 20:33:22 do these both look bold elliott 20:33:22 #haskell-ops 20:33:38 i guess i did it wrong 20:34:41 nooodl: well no 20:34:45 #haskell-ops 20:34:58 shachaf: wow did you see what Phantom_Hoover did........ 20:35:17 no 20:35:24 what did Phantom_Hoover did 20:35:28 21:30:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486] has joined #haskell-ops 20:35:29 i said oops! 20:35:31 21:30:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486] has left #haskell-ops ["Leaving"] 20:35:41 it was BLIND REFLEX 20:35:43 all blinking text has the same frequency and phase, right 20:35:49 kmc: unfortunately, yes 20:36:02 shachaf: next Sgeo will join.............. 20:36:08 i hear he does that 20:36:30 ok Sgeo. 20:36:31 what the fuck. 20:36:36 is wrong with you. 20:36:51 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:37:02 I didn't notice until you pinged me 20:37:12 I did see the topic though 20:37:14 Phantom_Hoover: you should stop doing that immediately. 20:37:23 i only joined to see if Sgeo was there! 20:38:00 i assign copumpkin to ban you all 20:38:17 hagb4rd had voice too 20:38:33 elliott: being in -ops when you're not an op is such a terrible offense................ 20:38:44 shachaf: yes 20:38:47 imo it should be criminalised 20:38:52 imo hagb4rd should always have voice 20:38:53 the joke is that elliott did it for months 20:39:48 honorary op since birth 20:42:25 Sgeo: (btw the "what is wrong with you" wasn't due to the delay in joining it was due to the joining) 20:42:32 (i didn't notice your response until now) 20:43:20 sda sda1 sdb sdb1 sdc sdc1 sdd sdd1 sde sde1 sdf sdf1 sdg sdg1 sdh sdh1 sdi sdi1 sdj sdj1 sdk sdk1 sdl sdl1 sdm sdm1 sdn sdn1 sdo sdo1 sdp sdp1 20:43:21 Well, at least I left 20:43:29 kmc: does your +v in this channel mean you're an op 20:43:37 in what channel 20:43:41 this channel 20:43:46 kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op 20:43:47 probably not 20:43:50 haha 20:43:57 `addquote kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op 20:44:01 1053) kmc: you gotta tell me if you're an op 20:45:21 hagb4rd totally told me earlier that I should get op 20:45:29 idgi 20:45:40 i don't think that is true Fiora 20:45:59 Fiora: Come on. What kind of op would you be? 20:46:07 Ops need to rule with an iron fist! 20:46:13 i think that is an impressively charitable interpretation of hagb4rd 20:46:30 The bronze fist does 9999 damage on criticals. 20:46:38 shachaf: admittedly I don't think I'd do anything 20:46:42 You get it on level 96. 20:46:56 elliott: what's a less charitable interpretation? 20:47:30 hmm good hagb4rd in th logs 20:47:37 (by good i mean typical) 20:47:53 well, I admit I never have almost any idea what hagb4rd is trying to say. 20:48:00 Iron fist? Bronze fist? Maybe you can use a paper fist. 20:48:05 oh -_- so he's like shachaf 20:48:16 zzo38: No, a fist is rock. A flat palm is paper. 20:48:27 Fiora: Ouch. 20:48:27 The iron fist just randomly inflicts confuse. 20:48:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:48:49 I-I didn't mean that... I just meant that I can never underst-- sorry 20:48:55 underst++ 20:49:07 It's OK. 20:49:23 underst-- this is a democracy shachaf 20:49:32 Stoned. Ripped. Twisted. Good people. 20:49:34 shachaf: Yes. But maybe iron and broze fist is no good. 20:49:36 /msg lambdabot underst++ 20:49:37 @karma underst 20:49:37 underst has a karma of 0 20:50:06 underst++ 20:50:19 Unrest'd. 20:51:14 Also today in the bus there was someone with pink hair and cat ears and a painted-on-face grin; I think there's some sort of a "con" going on in this country. 20:51:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 20:51:29 @wn con 20:51:31 *** "con" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 20:51:31 con 20:51:31 adv 1: in opposition to a proposition, opinion, etc.; "much was 20:51:31 written pro and con" [ant: {pro}] 20:51:31 n 1: an argument opposed to a proposal [ant: {pro}] 20:51:33 [15 @more lines] 20:51:49 fizzie: So you saw a con artist? 20:52:34 I... guess? (There were four of them, but that one was easiest to describe.) 20:55:29 http://bash.org/?12431 20:55:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:57:39 Phantom_Hoover, fun fact: Active Worlds has Peacekeepers 20:57:54 -!- dessos has joined. 20:57:55 fun fact 0 = 1 20:58:05 q 20:59:58 Sgeo, as in, just the name? 21:00:10 Just the name 21:00:18 http://peacekeeper.net/ 21:00:26 `pastlog shachaf.*fact n 21:00:40 the name is, er 21:00:43 not very distinctive 21:00:53 I don't think any fact relating to Active Worlds can really be called fun... 21:00:57 No output. 21:01:12 `pastlog shachaf.*\|.*fact 21:01:12 shachaf, hey, that's unfair 21:01:13 Even the fact that anyone can go in there and delete some historical property 21:01:24 2013-04-04.txt:03:23:55: | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 21:01:26 (Not sure if that's still the case going forward, but it has been the case for a long time) 21:01:32 thackego 21:01:55 elliott: Why didn't the other search find it? 21:02:52 no clue 21:02:56 maybe it timed out or something 21:03:25 Don't timeouts get reported? 21:03:33 `run while true; do true; done 21:03:39 lol 21:03:40 http://activeworlds.com/products/citizenships.asp 21:03:46 The page hasn't been updated, but the links are 21:04:04 No output. 21:04:06 So clicking "SAVE! CLICK HERE for discounted annual online registration." tells you "Citizen Immigration is FREE." 21:04:57 ...ok this page looks different from the rest of the site http://www.activeworlds.com/products/cancel.asp 21:05:04 did you know that shamus young helped make activeworlds 21:05:04 This was the old look of the website, hmm 21:05:16 it's amazing how someone so cool could be involved in something so shitt 21:05:17 y 21:05:49 I don't think I've heard the name Shamus Young outside of AW 21:08:37 he's now a kind of freelance game pundit 21:11:52 what's shit about AW 21:13:39 sgeo 21:13:59 maybe once it was good 21:15:33 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:23:24 I've heard that name, but I have no recollection in which context. 21:23:33 Oh, DM of the Rings. 21:25:59 -!- sprocklem has joined. 21:30:11 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:44:55 -!- sacje has joined. 21:45:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:47:11 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:52:44 is the person in ##crypto saying bad and/or wrong things 21:54:24 which 21:54:28 me? 21:54:44 no 21:55:12 AAA 21:55:41 shrug 21:56:00 Huh, I didn't know about @pointful 21:56:20 @pointful (+3) . (+4) . (+5 21:56:20 .hs: 1: 18:Parse error: EOF 21:56:21 @pointful (+3) . (+4) . (+5) 21:56:21 (\ f -> ((f + 5) + 4) + 3) 21:56:38 @pointful (+3) . (+4) . (+5) `ap` 4 21:56:38 Plugin `pointful' failed with: Ambiguous infix expression 21:56:46 @pointful ((+3) . (+4) . (+5)) `ap` 4 21:56:47 (\ b -> (4 >>= \ j -> return ((\ f -> ((f + 5) + 4) + 3) b j)) b) 21:56:52 @unpl (+3) . (+4) . (+5) 21:56:53 (\ f -> ((f + 5) + 4) + 3) 21:57:00 Is unpl a different thing than pointful? 21:57:27 (". unpl pl" -- or the other way around -- is often a best.) 21:57:57 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:58:25 @. pl unpl ((+3) . (+4) . (+5)) `ap` 4 -- I'm going to get the same thing back, right? 21:58:28 ap ((4 >>=) . (return .) . (+ 3) . flip ((+) . (+ 5)) 4) id 21:58:28 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 21:58:35 pl is broken hth 22:05:19 no idea why pl is broken 22:05:30 So figure out why? 22:08:26 OK, I think I managed to make a sequent calculus for sokoban now. 22:10:01 busy rewriting eval plugin instead 22:10:16 Sequent calculus for chess puzzles will be far more complicated; you will need to keep track of whose turn it is, and you will need to make the opponent's turn with all possible moves above the line instead of just one. 22:14:13 http://zzo38computer.org/tex/sokoban_sequent.tex Please tell me if there is a mistake. 22:15:28 If these are caffeine withdrawal headaches, why do they occur so late in the day 22:16:07 Sgeo: I don't know. 22:16:52 -!- augur has joined. 22:17:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:58 -!- augur has joined. 22:20:47 Is this sequent calculus for sokoban a correct implementation of the sokoban game? 22:21:07 I don't think anybody's listening 22:21:19 (Well, it is generalized; it allows other kinds of geometry than rectangular, and allows multiple player pieces) 22:34:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:37:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 22:40:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:41:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 22:52:18 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:02 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:10:18 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:20:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:20:14 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:20:58 i think that is an impressively charitable interpretation of hagb4rd <- charitable AND correct, btw.. that girl rulez! if i had to choose a pair for another renaissance in the matrix .. i'd choose fio and kmc! long may heir reign last and may some hard coconut fall on elliotts or hoovers head 23:20:58 @messages? 23:22:19 if you by accident ever need a witness.. feel free to ask me.. i put my trust inya :P 23:22:21 the fuck 23:22:33 ... 23:22:41 shachaf: I work with unusual model of logic all the time in the CS department: multiple arguments and tupling both have weird logical problems (mostly, there's two different plausible ways to implement them, and it's not clear which is meant), so currying simplifies things a lot there 23:23:33 I had to check twice to make sure hagb4rd's line wasn't by fungot 23:23:34 ais523: s/ syntax-case/ fnord/ fnord or is the gui stuffs in teach packs? is not just lambda calculus. the nutshell version of it. i use ion 23:23:37 that's a mark o a good line right there :) 23:23:41 *of 23:23:52 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 23:23:53 I find that applies to all of hagb4rd's lines 23:24:10 you lie 23:24:21 not all 23:24:28 let's say many 23:29:44 > undefined 23:29:45 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 23:30:14 hey hagb4rd were you the one who led itidus to this channel 23:30:40 you're repeating yourself so much poor hoovey 23:30:54 no i did not 23:31:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o Phantom_Hoover. 23:32:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set channel mode: +b *!*@koln-4db420d6.pool.mediaWays.net. 23:32:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has kicked hagb4rd hagb4rd. 23:32:14 right 23:32:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o Phantom_Hoover. 23:32:17 problem solved 23:32:29 you can't keep the ban around, btw 23:32:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 23:32:35 fuck you ais 23:32:38 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -b *!*@koln-4db420d6.pool.mediaWays.net. 23:32:41 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 23:32:47 but it'll do him/her good to not be around for a while 23:33:06 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:33:07 insulting channel regulars like that, out of nowhere, is not productive 23:33:08 weee 23:36:32 ais523: that was not a while 23:37:33 don't see why you get so tense again 23:37:43 i think we have fun 23:37:46 don't we 23:38:07 no, this isn't particularly fun, nor ontopic, nor useful 23:38:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 23:38:22 you want me to leave? 23:38:30 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*perdito@*.pool.mediaWays.net. 23:38:30 -!- elliott has kicked hagb4rd fuck off. 23:38:33 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 23:38:37 good game imo 23:38:52 I don't remember them being quite that bad last time 23:39:23 btw, that's just based on behaviour since I've been here, I've heard there's worse in logs 23:39:29 ais523: btw you're the best op until oerjan or fizzie overtakes you, hth 23:43:18 the only differentiating factor i can think of is that this time he knows there's a woman in the channel 23:45:20 somehow I'm still finding it hard to believe that there are people who still think the internet runs on "tits or gtfo" 23:46:27 incidentally, #xkcd (not on this server, I forget where it is; foonetic?) actually has a rule against that specifically in the topic 23:46:28 that would be too coherent for hagb4rd 23:46:56 depressing that it'd be common enough to need putting in the topic 23:47:01 I'm not sure if it actually happened enough that they felt they had to ban it, or if it was preemptive 23:47:05 elliott: but yes 23:49:16 SO 23:49:18 what's with this warp language 23:49:20 is it any good 23:51:56 I don't remember having heard of it 23:51:56 is this on the wiki 23:52:07 elliott: btw, I got two effective kicks in a few minutes there 23:52:19 I went and kicked a spambot from #nethack just after the hagb4rd ban 23:52:30 imo despot. impeach ais523 23:52:34 mnoqy: http://esolangs.org/wiki/WARP 23:52:41 elliott: ya im lookin at it now 23:52:58 elliott: you can impeach me if you like, but then good luck relying on the other ops to be online :) 23:52:59 ais523: oh btw i sent you a lambdabot message that you've probably read 23:53:03 and yes, I did 23:53:15 what does "twh" mean? 23:53:43 that would help 23:53:48 part of the New #esoteric Vernacular 23:54:36 so far warp looks more interesting than most new languges on the wiki these days 23:54:51 hmm, WARP reminds me of something I was planning to do myself, but doesn't 23:55:27 like, doesn't do itself 23:58:57 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to jockstrap. 2013-06-16: 00:03:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:04:54 -!- jockstrap has changed nick to copumpkin. 00:07:42 hi 00:08:43 hi 00:08:54 I banned hagb4rd 00:08:55 oerjan: hi 00:09:00 i banned hagb4rd 00:09:15 err, via giving ops to people likely to kick/ban him/her 00:09:29 oerjan, hi 00:09:30 you want all the credit 00:09:35 i banned hagb4rd 00:09:36 first 00:09:47 i banned hagb4rd more thoroughly! 00:09:53 huh 00:10:01 it's ok to be confused, oerjan 00:10:48 because of his behaving like drunk? i suppose i should read the rest of the logs. 00:12:33 i do that all the time 00:12:44 but you have voice so it's ok 00:14:10 god, it's a good thing we didn't give hagb4rd voice 00:14:26 btw i think +v may cancel the +q part of +b 00:14:37 we could test this by banning kmc 00:14:38 in case you want to ban someone without kicking them 00:14:53 wouldn't want to be a part of a club that would have me as a member, etc. 00:44:16 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to MasterOfBronies. 00:45:07 -!- MasterOfBronies has changed nick to copumpkin. 00:47:00 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to TheMarquisOfTime. 00:48:44 -!- TheMarquisOfTime has changed nick to copumpkin. 00:55:25 `pastelogs Sgeo.*egg 00:56:13 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16221 00:57:03 -!- ais523_ has joined. 00:58:31 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:58:32 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 00:59:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:59:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:03:06 i banned hagb4rd 01:04:28 did he /msg anyone about his being banned 01:04:42 hagb4rd seems like the kind of person who would do that... 01:05:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khet_(game) 01:05:28 nooodl: yes, me 01:05:33 it's like portal chess except not shit 01:05:34 Didn't msg me at least 01:05:39 elliott: nice 01:05:54 I should figure out how to bring norns back from the dead 01:08:05 didn't msg me 01:08:29 he msged `^_^v 01:09:25 who's that 01:09:25 isn't it sshc you're meant to ping a lot 01:09:29 or whoever it was 01:09:47 i used to hate sshc but then it turned out he was actually an idiot which kind of spoilt it 01:09:58 so now i just go for the scattergun approach 01:10:10 that heroux, am i right 01:10:12 there are so many people in this channel who never talk 01:10:16 who's sshc 01:10:21 kmc: some person who never said anything 01:10:30 except once 01:10:33 when he was an idiot 01:10:34 which is the second-best way to attract Phantom_Hoover's ire after making a brainfuck derivative 01:10:41 yes 01:10:47 sshc is the dual of sshd hth 01:11:24 So, the brainfuck derivative that I'm making... 01:11:43 Want to use pipes to implement it, but not sure if that's the best way 01:11:55 Also, is there a single preferred 3-bit encoding for Brainfuck? 01:12:24 `^_^v, aloril, atehwa, conehead, dessos, Frooxius, ggherdov, heroux, hogeyui____, iamcal__, itsy, jix, rntz, rodgort`, sacje, samebchase, SingingBoyo, SirCmpwn, sprocklem, ssue__, TodPunk, tromp_, trout, yiyus, I hope you hear me you fucks. 01:12:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v,: not found 01:12:39 I think Phantom_Hoover should be kicked for that. 01:12:43 Hasn't SirCmpwn spoken, or am I hallucinating? 01:12:53 you're hallucinating 01:12:56 And conehead sounds like it's someone else renamed 01:12:58 SirCmpwn has spoken quite a bit, yes. 01:12:59 eat more nuts 01:13:10 Hi? 01:13:17 Also, glogbot and glogbackup as far as I know have never spoken 01:13:30 conehead, have we known you by a different name, or only as conehead? 01:13:37 Only as conehead 01:13:39 `welcome conehead 01:13:41 conehead: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:13:47 lmao thanks for the welcome for the third time d: 01:14:01 see 01:14:08 i get results 01:14:12 Phantom_Hoover: Why are you always so rude? You should be nicer to people. 01:14:33 go stick your head in a toilet shachaf 01:15:01 I'll stick my head in any kind of shachaf I like, thank you very much. 01:17:49 the best person to ping is variable / constant 01:18:06 no i like variable 01:18:19 `quote in.toilet 01:18:21 986) i'm not actually competent at hacking things ummmm kmc dont u mean `cracking' [tiny glider symbol with "hacker pride" written next to it in silkscreen] [head of a gnu] [tux penguin] [face shoved in toilet] 01:19:16 at least they picked the dumb phase of the glider for the hacker pride symbol 01:19:29 dumb phase? 01:19:41 the one what looks dumb 01:19:46 `run quote kmc | shuf 01:19:48 863) i bet a blog post complaining about ");});});" syntax in JavaScript and comparing it unfavorably to Lisp would get approximately one billion comments on hacker news but at what cost? your very soul, kmc! \ 856) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will \ 589) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 838) `pastequotes kmc 01:20:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28869 01:21:20 Oh, Liechtenstein. 01:21:26 I will *not*. hth 01:22:01 didn't 01:22:02 811) Can you vote for just the green party or rainbow party instead of both? nope, it is the same party That is the problem with political parties. 01:22:05 come after 01:22:08 821) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 01:22:56 Nope. 01:23:00 esoteric/2012-11-06.txt:00:55:16: Can you vote for just the green party or rainbow party instead of both? 01:23:05 esoteric/2012-12-03.txt:02:06:11: i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft 01:23:13 weird 01:23:20 feels like it wasn't 7 months ago 01:23:52 kmc, it's great, isn't it 01:24:02 what is 01:24:27 the way that whether something works in wine is entirely independent of its status in winedb 01:24:51 imoe everything works in wine 01:25:05 my favourite was when i tried to get a torrented copy of deus ex to install, and it was erroring out 01:25:22 and the reaction i got from #winehq was basically 'fuck off pirate scum' 01:25:38 haha 01:26:02 there was definitely a bug / intentional feature (?) in deus ex which made it impossible to progress past the first mission if you'd used a nocd crack 01:26:23 i've encountered that 01:26:32 The Worms wiki links to that "You are a pirate" thing if you click the link for ... hmm, let me just find it 01:26:35 as i recall i may have encountered it in the steam version... 01:27:04 http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/ 01:27:08 http://worms2d.info/Troubleshooting_FAQ#I_downloaded_Worms_Armageddon_from_the_Internet_without_paying._Can_you_help_me.3F 01:27:34 those features are great because if there are any false positives the people trying to report them will just be treated like scum 01:27:37 so basically, win/win 01:27:58 it's always great to have an excuse to treat your users like scum 01:28:25 the wikipedia page for COINTELPRO is #3 on hacker news for some reason 01:28:35 i loved that article you linked because the guy has evidently never heard of subtlety 01:29:15 elliott: because it's topical to current events 01:29:22 kmc: but... 01:31:21 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:34:03 @yow 01:34:03 Alright, you!! Imitate a WOUNDED SEAL pleading for a PARKING SPACE!! 01:34:10 elliott: but... 01:35:25 i... 01:35:43 OOO II OOO OOOO IAA OO AAAAAA 01:35:50 kmc: but... 01:36:09 hi oerjan 01:36:10 "This went on for some time." 01:36:20 hi shachaf 01:36:21 how should i learn about linear algebra 01:36:31 just use the matrix hth 01:36:34 i bet y'all're "experts" 01:37:46 the only way to stop being an expert is to become a pert again 01:38:38 a pertinent issue 01:41:29 hello Phantom_Hoover why did you ping me 01:41:40 you weren't talking 01:41:48 made me suspicious 01:41:48 ok 01:41:55 i'll go back to not talking now 01:42:12 mm, just what you'd expect 01:45:59 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:46:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:48:55 sda sda1 sdb sdb1 sdc sdc1 sdd sdd1 sde sde1 sdf sdf1 sdg sdg1 sdh sdh1 sdi sdi1 sdj sdj1 sdk sdk1 sdl sdl1 sdm sdm1 sdn sdn1 sdo sdo1 sdp sdp1 <-- are these assembly commands 01:49:47 no 01:49:52 they are block devices 01:50:01 oh right 01:50:02 i have sdq sdq1 now as well 01:50:11 what happens when you reach sdz 01:50:19 nobody knows 01:50:31 kmc: what are you doing 01:50:43 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:50:55 He likes mounting? 01:53:47 hilarious 01:54:01 What is the computational class of sequent calculus? 01:54:47 well you implemented turing machines using one 01:56:20 Yes, at least I think I have; it isn't reviewed by someone else, in order to check to make sure. Also, that doesn't mean in case there is some higher computational class it has, although I don't think it is more powerful than Turing-complete, but I might be wrong. 01:56:27 how many of those correspond to actual physical disks? 01:56:52 all of them 01:57:12 Except for the ones that end with digits. 01:57:24 those correspond to subsets of disks 01:57:52 Do you have a lot of disks in your computer? If so, why? Are some of them connection for CF card, SD card, CD, DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, 3.5" floppy disk, 5.25" floppy disk, 8" floppy disk, Quick Disk, etc? 01:58:11 i have a fileserver with 12 hard drives, 2 SSDs for boot, and I also have three USB hard drives connected for various purposes 01:58:20 none of them is Quick Disk 01:58:36 realisation: I can, with a decent success rate, tell which email account I'm receiving spam on by its title 01:58:51 nethack4.org mostly gets SEO spammers 01:59:13 zzo38: I don't own a 5.25" floppy drive, but I do possess the connections for one. 01:59:20 (ofc, if you want to hire a good SEO company, simply do a web search for "search engine optimization" and pick the first company in the results…) 01:59:39 pikhq_: I have a USB 3.5" floppy drive, and have used it on occasion 01:59:57 I have an internal 3.5" drive still. I've not used it in years. 02:00:01 The floppy drive in my computer is broken so I connect an external floppy drive when I need to use it. 02:00:03 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:00:07 I get more use out of my CD burner. Which is older. 02:00:16 (ofc, if you want to hire a good SEO company, simply do a web search for "search engine optimization" and pick the first company in the results) 02:00:23 i tried this, all the results were localised 02:00:30 use duckduckgo then 02:00:35 also, that's a weird encoding fail 02:00:38 idk about you but i'm not especially eager to get coventrian search results 02:00:39 I write an ellipsis 02:00:43 er 02:00:50 *coventrian search engine companies 02:00:56 oh you know what i mean 02:00:59 and your client turns it into some sort of heterosexuality symbol 02:01:04 also, you live in Coventry? 02:01:11 the ellipsis looks fine to me... 02:01:18 elliott: in Phantom_Hoover's quote of me 02:01:24 ais523, yes, that's where Warwick is 02:01:30 ais523: They look like they're both the same codepoints to me. 02:01:32 I thought you were in Scotland still 02:01:33 pikhq_: hmm 02:01:39 I think it's your system that's jacking up. 02:01:39 in that case my client has come up with an entirely new failure mode 02:02:03 Oh, no, it's not your client. 02:02:16 and by "SSDs for boot" I mean the whole root filesystem is on those as well 02:02:38 it will boot unattended but it doesn't have the crypto keys for the big disk array until i log in and provide it 02:03:52 Looking at the logs, PhantomHoover emitted 0x85 where you emitted 0xe2 0x80 0xa6. 02:04:13 ? 02:04:44 this is probably a windows thing 02:04:50 i should start booting into arch again 02:04:57 winblows 02:04:57 That is to say, Phantom_Hoover wrote out Windows-1252 instead of UTF-8. 02:05:01 Using Xchat? 02:05:06 yes 02:05:07 oh for '…' 02:05:12 yeah xchat has broken unicode settings by default 02:05:12 Switch your encoding to "Unicode" instead of "IRC". 02:05:17 switch it to utf-8 you mean? 02:05:22 Yes. 02:05:23 i don't think there's a "unicode" encoding in the list 02:05:27 `run printf '\xe2\x80\xa6' | iconv -t cp1252 | hd 02:05:29 00000000 85 |.| \ 00000001 02:05:42 (how xchat does unicode by default: try to stuff it into whatever single-byte thing windows uses, and then use utf-8 if it fails) 02:05:43 "IRC" encoding is "if the character exists in Windows-1252 write it out as Windows-1252, otherwise write UTF-8". 02:05:48 Which is utterly broken. 02:05:48 (because mirc) 02:06:08 i'm fine with that for decoding, but not for encoding 02:06:15 -!- augur has joined. 02:06:18 lol postel's law 02:06:25 You shouldn't use that encoding. Use a proper encoding, such as Windows-1252 or UTF-8, not both of them together! 02:06:31 i can't actually find that setting 02:06:35 kmc: Oh, http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-055 is the thing I was thinking of. 02:06:42 Yes. It makes perfect sense to fall *back* to Windows-1252 when decoding... 02:06:54 shachaf: when were you thinking of it 02:06:55 shachaf: since when do you like anything the other sam hughes does 02:07:04 kmc: well you see he forgot about it shortly after (-: 02:07:15 As it's horribly unlikely for something to be valid UTF-8 but intended as Windows-1252. 02:07:16 Or just use ASCII if you don't need any other encodings. 02:07:17 kmc: When you were here. 02:07:43 zzo38: Ah, UCS-7/8ths. 02:07:50 I hate both my dad and step-mom 02:07:52 Yes, I will gladly consider that a sane encoding. 02:08:01 pikhq: Maybe, but still you shouldn't use both encodings together; it is still possible and it is conflicting. 02:08:10 zzo38: Oh, certainly. 02:08:19 Sgeo: why? 02:08:44 zzo38: By the way, "UCS-7/8ths" is just a snarky reference to ASCII, as 7 bits of Unicode is equal to ASCII. 02:09:02 Likewise UCS-1 a snarky reference to Latin-1. 02:09:10 There are some characters that IRC messages cannot contain; but, if you are using the UTF-8 then it is possible to use the overlong encodings of them. 02:09:51 pikhq_: Well, I suppose, anyways they are have that compatibility which at least mean it works, so you can write one ASCII program and read by UTF-8 or vice-versa as long as only characters in ASCII range are being used. 02:10:00 My step-mom is utterly against me dating non-Jewish girls. I am currently dating a non-Jewish girl. My dad wants to keep this hidden from my step-mom for "a while longer". I already dislike my step-mother for other reasons, having to avoid the subject/lie etc. because my dad's not willing to have her get angry doesn't help things 02:10:07 Unfortunately they don't always do that, but they should! 02:10:56 Sgeo: Have you considered asking her why she wants every little boy to receive genital mutilation. 02:10:59 Sgeo, so wait is she actually all 1930s southern about it 02:11:02 arent you independent of -- pikhqqqqqqq 02:11:07 -- your stepmom and father now anyway 02:11:20 elliott, hahahahahaha I wish 02:11:23 pikhq_..... 02:12:14 Phantom_Hoover: `What? 02:12:16 Sgeo, can you make people jewish 02:12:18 Sgeo: imo that would be a good thing for you 02:12:25 pikhq 02:13:05 pikhq............................ 02:13:18 何だ? 02:13:33 何だ 02:13:33 pikhq_, ...what's with the weird question mark? 02:13:47 Sgeo: Full-width question mark. 02:14:44 ?? 02:14:44 Unknown command, try @list 02:15:00 But... I'm using a monospaced font.... I think 02:15:17 still a different character 02:15:37 ANYWAY we were talking about your awful family before pikhq.... 02:15:51 Phantom_Hoover: Ah. Yes. 02:15:59 Still sucks. 02:16:23 Though less so as I am independent-ish and intending to stay that way. 02:16:44 pik 02:16:46 h 02:16:48 q 02:17:10 what's going on 02:19:01 just pikhq being pikhq 02:19:03 y'know 02:21:19 I'm good at it. 02:21:23 Indeed, the best. 02:21:30 :☺) 02:22:24 Sgeo: even in fixed width font terminals, some characters take up one cell and some take up two 02:22:46 you can't reasonably draw CJK characters in the narrow space used for a single Latin letter 02:23:19 two adjacent cells gives you a square area that is much more reasonable 02:23:26 Sgeo: shachaf: Phantom_Hoover: I speak here infrequently 02:23:40 in some legacy encodings, two-cell characters were all two bytes and one-cell characters were one byte 02:23:47 yesyesyes we established that already 02:23:55 did Sgeo though 02:23:56 Hmm. Guess I shouldn't have taken that anti-hallucinogenic that is lethal if there are in fact no hallucinations. 02:24:01 what 02:24:59 (re: me wondering if I was hallucinating and Phantom_Hoover saying I was, re: whether or not SirCmpwn talks also: my failure at humor) 02:25:18 I made the brainfuck IRC bot 02:25:19 that's about it 02:25:28 S 02:25:30 g 02:25:32 e 02:25:34 o 02:25:41 you know what, that's it 02:25:50 it's ok Phantom_Hoover 02:25:52 shhhh 02:25:58 i don't know if i can keep this escalation up 02:26:07 shhhhhhhhhh 02:31:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:35 rip 02:34:36 == 02:35:16 copumpkin: how should i learn about linear algebra 02:35:25 read nielsen and chuang 02:36:07 :t Identity 02:36:07 a -> Identity a 02:36:28 Someone posts in the AW group asking for help getting the SDK working with Python... so I show them my code... eventually they ask "What is self?" 02:36:35 > Identity undefined 02:36:38 Identity {runIdentity = *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:36:58 Sgeo: A name. hth 02:37:00 that show instance is derived in L.hs 02:37:07 aha 02:37:21 Sgeo: teach them to call it "this" just to be different hth 02:38:28 kmc: Quantum Computation and Quantum Information? 02:38:29 I was hoping not to have to teach them Python 02:39:09 > undefined :: Char 02:39:09 yeah 02:39:11 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:39:14 only half serious suggestion 02:39:18 it's a good book though 02:39:30 and it has an intro to linalg (and an intro to CS) and it's supposed to be kind of self contained 02:39:41 but it may not be the best way....... 02:42:11 > undefined :: (Int, Int) 02:42:12 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:42:26 > undefined :: (Int, Int, Int) 02:42:27 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 02:55:59 The idea behind `IO` is that it contaminates everything it touches 02:58:03 In a similar way as that idea about contamination contaminates everything it touches? 02:58:47 shachaf: v_v 02:58:55 why are you repeating wrong thinfgs 02:58:58 without even quoting them 02:59:07 kmc: picked up the habit from elliott hth 02:59:16 kmc: it's so you'll join #haskell in a desperate attempt to avoid it 02:59:23 i'm not that stupid 02:59:34 kmc: what can i say, shachaf doesn't think much of you 02:59:37 :'( 02:59:43 shachafffffffffff 02:59:46 elliott: apparently i think even less of you 02:59:52 kmc are you drunk 03:00:03 no 03:00:10 kmc: are you calling all the cool people in #haskell stupid 03:00:15 i've had like... two beers all day 03:00:24 :'( 03:00:34 copumpkin: it's ok kmc is just drunk 03:00:45 false 03:00:46 ⊥ 03:00:53 haha kmc said bum 03:01:00 there should be a fullwidth ⊥, it would look so much better, hth 03:01:17 there should be a combining character that makes any character fullwidth TAKE THAT 03:01:17 ˔ 03:01:20 kmc: what a coincidence, i've had 0 beers all day 03:01:29 0±2 beers 03:01:31 ⟘ 03:01:34 27D8 LARGE UP TACK [⟘] 03:01:38 kmc: i didn't have -2 beers 03:01:45 2AE0 SHORT UP TACK [⫠] 03:01:48 so many tacks 03:01:53 2AE9 SHORT UP TACK ABOVE SHORT DOWN TACK [⫩] 03:01:57 2AEB DOUBLE UP TACK [⫫] 03:02:23 elliott: your domain theory exercise of the day is to come up with a meaning for all these symbols hth 03:03:04 kmc, zero-width space + fullwidth combining character 03:03:25 infinite loop 03:04:23 My experience is that the fastest way to learn category is to author Haskell libraries 03:04:43 The reason is that the art of good API design is very closely intertwined with category theory 03:04:46 :'( 03:09:40 -!- Bike has joined. 03:16:16 would be nice to have any kind of detail on that claim 03:16:37 you could join #haskell and ask for it 03:16:47 kmc: heh heh 03:17:47 if a statement matches your presupposed notions and your general 'everyone else is dumb' attitude then it must be true 03:18:41 so i just wanted to say that the McAllister Hall here is for interior decorating and English language intensive students 03:18:51 I think the overall state of Haskell API design is not too great 03:18:59 and I never once came across an API design guideline document 03:19:13 maybe this category theory expert could write one instead of hoarding that delicious knowledge 03:20:11 that's not 'the #haskell spirit' 03:21:57 man, kmc is super bitter :P 03:22:05 every few hours I see him making a snarky remark about #haskell 03:22:10 like a fine india pale ale 03:22:15 :) 03:22:21 it's not every few hours ;P 03:22:28 anyway shachaf brought it up 03:22:29 fine, every hour or so 03:22:32 :D 03:22:33 elliott brought it up 03:22:38 shachaf provoked me 03:22:53 HAI PPL #HASKELL IS SUPER AWESOME 03:22:56 ANYONE DISAGREE? 03:23:18 i wish #haskell was a thousand clones of copumpkin 03:23:21 maybe then it would be good 03:23:33 probably a lot quieter, given how much I speak in there 03:23:36 note: i do not wish the same thing about #haskell-blah 03:23:42 lol 03:23:44 why not? 03:23:55 It would be all copumpkin links. 03:24:04 you don't like my links :( 03:24:06 copumpkin_jokes.pdf 03:24:13 what if we /invite'd kmc to #haskell 03:24:23 perhaps he has autojoin on invite set 03:24:24 that'd be fun 03:24:27 don't think so 03:24:28 what if kmc /invited'd #haskell to us? 03:24:30 quick quick get him before he turns it off 03:24:37 is that a default setting in irssi 03:24:42 no 03:24:56 guess not 03:25:01 copumpkin: imo there's one way to find out 03:25:03 welp 03:25:04 haha 03:25:06 you actually did it 03:25:13 #haskell ops so professional 03:25:14 yeah 03:25:18 epic fail :( 03:25:39 ok how about this, we ban everyone but kmc 03:25:44 kmc: you should join 03:25:47 then it would be a monic win 03:25:48 hth 03:25:48 ###kmc 03:26:02 oh god 03:26:02 the channel for discussing a #haskell with kmc in it 03:26:11 I thought I was the only one to make that pun 03:26:15 :( 03:26:18 idgi 03:26:21 you overestimate shachaf 03:26:40 at least I can see the effect it has on one's interlocutors 03:26:51 copumpkin misunderestimated me 03:26:52 new plan: give kmc ops and then he'll feel obligated to join 03:26:57 oh hagbard got banned huh 03:27:05 elliott: imo do it 03:27:08 hth 03:27:11 do i even have permissions to add ops 03:27:13 and if so why 03:27:13 you forgot hth, hth 03:27:19 do you have permissions to /cs clear users 03:27:25 don't remind me 03:27:29 No 03:27:52 elliott: yes because glguy trusts you to be a reasonable op hth 03:27:57 "glguy's fatal mistake" 03:27:58 how ridiculous 03:28:00 wait he called phantom_hoover "hoovie" 03:28:38 kmc: if you were an op would you rule #haskell with an iron fist 03:28:45 <+kmc> would be nice to have any kind of detail on that claim <-- just ask edwardk and tekmo hth 03:29:46 does edwardk agree with tekmo 03:30:09 about what 03:33:55 kmc: well it's like part of the underlying philosophy of both lens and pipes, so... 03:34:48 well, maybe pipes more than lens 03:35:25 maybe there should be a library called "raven" and a tool or something called "writing desk" 03:35:47 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:36:09 lens's philosophy is hardly categorical 03:36:59 I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical / From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical 03:37:36 one time i knew the lyrics to that but no longer :'( 03:37:59 if people keep quoting it maybe i'll know them soon 03:39:54 hmm i wasn't tired at all like half an hour ago 03:39:55 and now i'm tired 03:40:02 go to sleep hth 03:40:03 and i leaned on my arm funny and now it hurts 03:40:04 drugz 03:40:11 don't lean on your arm funny 03:40:12 idiot 03:40:13 You'll wake up in an hour and a half and feel really awful. 03:40:27 Bike: but it was comfortable at the time 03:40:28 Bike: do you gotta insult people like that :'( 03:40:57 elliott: is it like crawling with ants twnh 03:41:00 Bike: i like the insults, keep em comin 03:41:31 don't lean on your arm funny 03:41:32 elliott 03:42:00 but i like it 03:42:08 stop liking it, liker 03:42:24 im crying 03:44:42 Should I keep reading that book or work on bringing creatures back from the dead? 03:44:58 probably the book because you don't mean real animals because you suck 03:45:51 Shyamalan: The book isn't real either 03:46:00 [It's real... well, ebooks count as real, right?] 03:46:06 no 03:46:10 sorry (not sorry) 03:51:14 http://i.imgur.com/zT3jWJG.png probably people have seen this, but. 03:53:00 me 03:53:12 why are you egging us on with that fowl book 03:53:13 http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Bounded_gaps_between_primes wowie, watch that shit drop 03:53:25 Bike: i do 03:53:39 hi 03:54:06 ooh big leap today, although still tentative 03:54:22 Bike: is that real 03:54:34 the page is real 03:55:06 We have not been able to recognize your IP address as one of the subscribers to the Annals of Mathematics. Please note that online access to PDF copies of articles is by subscription only. 03:55:10 fuck u 03:55:28 damn this progress is beastly 03:55:35 like "fuck it, time to solve this already" 03:55:40 There are all kinds of discrete math texts out there. Discrete Mathematics with Applications, Discrete Mathematics with Algorithms, Discrete Mathematics with Graph Theory. The list goes on. And yet somehow people had neglected (until now!) to publish a textbook presenting discrete mathematics with ducks. This book fills that gap. 03:59:11 If that's real, I should read it. I read the cartoon guide to statistics when I was a kid 04:00:53 wait, some of my answers above were about the prime thing, not the ducks hth 04:02:39 Discrete Mathematics with No Applications 04:06:18 Fun doesn't count as an application? 04:06:28 Maybe they could make math boring somehow... 04:07:01 is fun an applicative 04:08:38 > let x = error ('q':x) in x 04:08:39 "*Exception: q*Exception: q*Exception: q*Exception: q*Exception: q*Exceptio... 04:09:02 > let foo s = error (s ++ foo ('q':s)) in foo "" 04:09:04 "*Exception: q*Exception: qq*Exception: qqq*Exception: qqqq*Exception: qqqq... 04:09:08 cool 04:09:35 > let foo s = error (s ++ foo (error 'q':s)) in foo "" 04:09:36 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 04:09:36 with actual ty... 04:09:42 > let foo s = error (s ++ foo (error "q":s)) in foo "" 04:09:43 "*Exception: *Exception: q 04:11:51 > let x = error x in x 04:11:52 "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... 04:12:47 > fix error 04:12:48 "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... 04:12:54 right 04:13:05 > fix show 04:13:06 "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... 04:14:22 > fix (show . error) -- that should interleave them, right? 04:14:23 "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... 04:14:30 sillymbdabot 04:14:52 > fix (error . show) 04:14:54 *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex... 04:14:58 sux 04:16:05 * copumpkin slaps shachaf hth 04:17:03 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:19:11 kmc: just think how much more insightful #haskell must be compared to this 04:20:11 i am the anti-insight 04:31:39 > error "test\nho\nhi" 04:31:40 *Exception: test 04:31:41 ho 04:31:41 hi 04:36:59 -!- jconn has joined. 04:43:37 shachaf: oh I found a place to live in SF 04:43:46 Which assemblers have an emulator built-in which can be used as a postprocessor and/or to make macros? 04:43:47 well deegan 04:43:50 where 04:44:12 in the Mission, 26th and Bryant or so 04:44:48 good place 04:44:58 when are you moving 04:45:07 i will officially be one of those overpaid software jerks in the mission 04:45:24 oh no are you going to turn into a jerk 04:45:32 can you just be a jerk in the full moon or something 04:46:00 like copumpkin 04:46:01 probably I will arrive like Friday the 28th or so 04:46:07 does copumpkin turn into a pumpkin 04:46:09 how am I a jerk? 04:46:15 no, just the full moon part 04:46:23 oh 04:46:26 what do I turn into? 04:46:35 a pumpkin 04:46:40 oh 04:46:41 or is that at midnight? 04:46:50 when do I switch back? 04:46:51 then he turns back into a copumpkin 04:47:00 Maybe the full moon time is at midnight, though. 04:47:03 look i don't know how it works 04:47:34 I have a software "Astrolog" to calculate precisely the phase of moon and even the distance of moon. 04:48:32 aha let me look closer 04:48:48 (wong wrindow) 05:01:11 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 05:01:25 -!- Bike has joined. 05:01:30 `thanks wi-fi 05:01:32 Thanks, wi-fi. Thi-fi. 05:01:39 `thanks sci-fi 05:01:40 Thanks, sci-fi. Thi-fi. 05:02:02 `thanks hi-fi 05:02:04 Thanks, hi-fi. Thi-fi. 05:02:23 wait a mo 05:02:26 `thanks ants 05:02:27 Thanks, ants. Thants. 05:02:29 ok good. 05:02:39 `thanks Hanks 05:02:41 Thanks, Hanks. Thanks. 05:03:43 `thanks bird 05:03:44 Thanks, bird. Third. 05:03:45 > let (x) = 3 in x 05:03:59 3 05:03:59 NOW WHAT 05:04:02 `thanks tree 05:04:04 Thanks, tree. Thee. 05:04:08 shouldn't that be three 05:04:09 imo yes 05:04:38 > let ø=1 in ø 05:04:40 1 05:05:11 > let x £ y = x + y in 1 £ 2 05:05:13 3 05:05:21 > '£' 05:05:22 '\163' 05:07:01 `thanks Thor 05:07:03 Thanks, Thor. Thor. 05:07:38 `thanks geology 05:07:40 Thanks, geology. Theology. 05:08:29 Will you review my sequent calculus for Turing machine and for Sokoban at some time? 05:08:31 `paste bin/thanks 05:08:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/thanks 05:08:46 I want to know if you found a mistake, please! 05:09:13 zzo38: Who, me? 05:09:21 `thanks consonants 05:09:23 Thanks, consonants. Thonsonants. 05:09:24 Anyone who does, such as, possibly you! 05:09:39 `thanks Sgeo 05:09:39 `thanks zzz 05:09:40 Thanks, Sgeo. Theo. 05:09:41 Thanks, zzz. Tzz. 05:10:00 `thanks AAA 05:10:02 Thanks, AAA. TAA. 05:10:03 `thanks Tzetze 05:10:04 Thanks, Tzetze. Thetze. 05:14:09 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:30:12 -!- L8D has joined. 05:30:15 :) 05:30:18 Just joined the wiki 05:30:30 I made an entry for my language 05:30:31 Delvs 05:46:38 guess i'll check it out 05:46:47 thanks...I guess 05:47:09 hm ph doesn't seem to be around. i think he'd like it 05:47:38 * oerjan swats mnoqy -----### 05:48:19 what are you suggesting here, oerjan!! 05:48:46 +++++ +++++ [ > +++++ +++++ < - ] > ++++ . + > . 05:50:18 ^bf +++++ +++++ [ > +++++ +++++ < - ] > ++++ . + > . 05:50:18 h 05:50:30 H indeed. 05:51:10 +++++ +++++ [ > +++++ +++++ < - ] > ++++ . + . > . 05:51:11 oops 05:51:25 Was typing with one hand... 05:51:53 ;>;<[>[>+>+<<-]>[<+>-]<<-]>>>: 05:52:32 ^bf ;>;<[>[>+>+<<-]>[<+>-]<<-]>>>: 05:52:46 Oh wait... 05:52:56 ^bf +++++ +++++ [ > +++++ +++++ < - ] > ++++ . + . > . 05:52:56 hi 05:53:47 fungot: Well hi to yourself, too. 05:53:47 fizzie: " eat up" values... first it's a number, a meaningful operator. 05:54:25 Hey! Some functions are numbers too! 05:54:51 So yes, numbers are meaningful operators 05:55:12 hi 05:56:23 wh 05:56:31 yes 05:56:49 What other languages can fungot do? 05:56:49 L8D: oh. when was this exactly? 05:57:08 fungot: 5 past 10 05:57:08 L8D: found out the truth from the source then :s) 05:57:46 fungot: :s/)/\/source\/g 05:57:47 L8D: but one is actually putting the code in compile-time would be not be/ not be 05:58:47 fungot ? fungot.brain = true : fungot.brain = false; 05:58:48 L8D: well i need to take another cue from stephenson and use nlp for disciplinary and learning purposes. it was the same guy as in fnord fnord 05:59:43 wat 06:01:16 Just underload. 06:01:18 ^source 06:01:18 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 06:01:53 Nice, befunge 06:02:41 ^underload (0)S((0)(1))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 06:03:06 ^ul (0)S((0)(1))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ 06:03:06 011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! 06:03:17 (It goes for short commands.) 06:03:21 ^ul (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ 06:03:22 */*/**/***/*****/********/*************/*********************/**********************************/*******************************************************/*****************************************************************************************/********************************************************************************* ...too much output! 06:03:29 Of course for serious business, there's always 06:03:32 !help languages 06:03:32 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 06:04:03 !help 06:04:03 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 06:04:14 !c printf("asdf"); 06:04:18 asdf 06:05:13 `run \? HackEgo # and for even more serious things... 06:05:15 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 06:05:48 mnoqy: hang on 06:05:56 mnoqy: this is a derivitave 06:05:59 not a derivative 06:06:03 so it's all right 06:06:50 oh ok 06:07:16 fizzie: "`run \?"... 06:07:50 elliott: what's the matter 06:07:57 elliott: I wanted a comment. :/ 06:08:23 you're fine fizzie 06:08:26 comments are fine 06:09:12 Okay, I guess you can also type anything after `help itself. 06:11:28 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:11:47 `run wget http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt 06:11:49 ​--2013-06-16 06:11:49-- http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden \ 2013-06-16 06:11:49 ERROR 403: Forbidden. 06:12:17 lol 06:12:22 There's a very small whitelist of things accessible from inside; but you can use the `fetch command. 06:12:25 `run vim 06:12:42 `fetch http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt 06:13:28 Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~ 06:13:29 2013-06-16 06:13:28 URL:http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt [9128/9128] -> "bf.asm.txt" [1] 06:13:46 `killall vim 06:13:47 vim: no process found 06:14:05 `nasm -f bin -o bfc -f bf.asm.txt 06:14:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nasm: not found 06:14:16 `yasm -f bin -o bfc -f bf.asm.txt 06:14:18 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yasm: not found 06:14:22 :( 06:14:37 Doesn't even have an assemblerr 06:14:42 `gcc 06:14:43 gcc: no input files 06:14:43 Sure does. 06:14:49 what? 06:14:51 'as' should be enough for everyone. 06:15:06 `as --version 06:15:07 `as -f bin -o bfc -f bf.asm.txt 06:15:07 GNU assembler (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.20.1-system.20100303 \ Copyright 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This program is free software; you may redistribute it under the terms of \ the GNU General Public License version 3 or later. \ This program has absolutely no warranty. \ This assembler was configured for a target of `x86_64-linux-gnu'. 06:15:09 as: unrecognized option '- bin -o bfc -f bf.asm.txt' 06:15:20 Of course it won't assemble *that*; it's GNU as. 06:15:30 oh 06:15:46 `git --version 06:15:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: git: not found 06:16:15 `run hg --version # also opinionated when it comes to version control 06:16:16 Mercurial Distributed SCM (version 1.6.4) \ \ Copyright (C) 2005-2010 Matt Mackall and others \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 06:16:45 `fetch http://github.com/L8D/delvs/archive/master.tar.gz 06:16:50 2013-06-16 06:16:49 URL:https://codeload.github.com/L8D/delvs/tar.gz/master [4026/4026] -> "master.tar.gz" [1] 06:17:04 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:17:09 `tar zxf master.tar.gz 06:17:11 tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. 06:17:21 `tar xf master.tar.gz 06:17:22 tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information. 06:17:27 You need to `run things that you want to have multiple arguments. 06:17:27 wat 06:17:33 oh 06:17:38 `run tar xf master.tar.gz 06:17:41 No output. 06:17:46 `ls 06:17:48 ​‮ \ bf.asm.txt \ bin \ canary \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 06:17:55 (Plain `tar xf master.tar.gz is akin to `run tar 'xf master.tar.gz'.) 06:18:17 `run rm bf.asm.txt master.tar.gz 06:18:21 No output. 06:18:28 `cd delvs-master 06:18:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found 06:18:42 ????? 06:18:51 `cat test.hs 06:18:52 import Data.Maybe (catMaybes) \ import Data.List (group, sort, stripPrefix) \ main = mapM_ putStrLn . map (\s -> head s ++ " occurs->" ++ show (length s)) . group . sort . catMaybes . map (stripPrefix "username:" . (!!2) . words) . lines =<< getContents 06:19:05 There's no shell involved for plain `command. And there's no persistence either, so `run cd something won't be any more useful. 06:19:35 `run cd delvs-master;make 06:19:37 gcc -Wall -std=c11 -Werror main.c -o main.o \ cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-std=c11" \ make: *** [objects] Error 1 06:20:01 :rageface: 06:20:11 `run rm -rf delvs-master 06:20:14 No output. 06:20:23 `ls 06:20:25 ​‮ \ bin \ canary \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ maze \ maze.c \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 06:20:27 Gregor: YOU HAVE COMPLAINTS 06:20:32 It's not the future yet. 06:20:38 `run ls 06:20:40 ​‮ \ bin \ canary \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ maze \ maze.c \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 06:20:44 Good... 06:20:59 Gregor: GIVE HackEgo GCC 06:21:06 It has a GCC. 06:21:11 UPDATE IT 06:21:25 It doesn't have god damn c11 06:21:31 that was 2 years ago!!!!! 06:22:02 i think Gregor is rather absent 06:22:19 idle for 2 days 7 hours 06:22:46 rip 06:22:52 thankfully hackego was spared a brainfuck derivative interpreter 06:23:38 a fate worse than death 06:25:33 FWIW, there doesn't seem to be anything in the code that wouldn't just work with -std=c99. 06:25:37 `run ./delvs hi-bool.bf 06:25:39 Hello World! 06:25:42 YES 06:25:48 `cat hi-bool.bf 06:25:49 01001000 H \ "'""'""".> \ 01100101 e \ "''""'"'.> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 00100000 \ ""'""""".> \ 01010111 W \ "'"'"'''.> \ 01101111 o \ "''"''''.> \ 01110010 r \ "'''""'".> \ 01101100 l \ "''"''"".> \ 01100100 d \ "''""'"".> \ 00100001 \ ""'""""'.> \ 00001010 \ """"'"'".> 06:26:20 how unfortunate 06:26:25 lol 06:26:52 i guess hackego wasn't spared 06:26:53 rip 06:26:53 What's wrong with a brainfuck derivative interpreter besides abundance? 06:27:33 wtf is this 06:27:42 Is what? 06:27:54 that code 06:27:57 Delvs 06:28:12 My Brainfuck-derivative 06:28:36 It's pronounced /Dell-viss/ 06:28:40 it doesn't look like brainfuck at all 06:29:10 Well, that's the boolean version of hello world 06:29:39 which is what i cannot read 06:29:56 `run cp delvs-master/samples/multiply.bf . 06:29:56 The numbers and letters are presumably just comments. 06:29:58 how does it translate to "normal" delvs 06:30:00 No output. 06:30:14 `cat multiply.bf 06:30:16 ​;>; \ < [ \ > [ \ > + \ > + \ << - \ ] \ > [ \ < + \ > - \ ] \ << - \ ] \ >>> : 06:30:46 `run echo 5 5 | ./delvs multiply.bf 06:30:48 25 06:30:49 (For the record, the interpreter has an off-by-one problem.) 06:31:03 fizzie: In the end of loops? 06:31:16 What do you mean? 06:31:16 No; in the size of file. 06:31:27 The file contents as a string take size+1 bytes, not size. 06:31:52 Cf. http://sprunge.us/DcLW 06:32:48 Do you have the hi-bool.bf in your directory? 06:32:53 Yes. 06:32:55 23:26:54 What's wrong with a brainfuck derivative interpreter besides abundance? 06:32:58 boring as heck 06:32:59 overdone 06:33:06 "besides abundance" 06:33:08 (It also has a g.vars-not-initialized problem.) 06:33:30 overdone has a different connotation 06:33:34 IMO worth stressing 06:35:23 example: the monoid thing 06:35:59 but overdoing is so easy 06:36:30 oh right also should throw in "unoriginal" [slightly different again!!!! worth stressing] 07:06:35 -!- itsy has left. 07:13:02 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 07:13:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:14:50 -!- nooga_ has joined. 07:16:21 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:18:53 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:29:02 I happen to think C11 and C99 has many stupid things. 07:31:26 Such as? 07:32:36 Flexible arrays; GNU supports zero-length arrays with works much better. 07:33:03 Also the way they implement a lot of things such as having complex numbers built-in, etc, is I think stupid to have in C. 07:34:38 What's the difference compared to GNU zero-length arrays? 07:35:10 The difference is described in the GNU documentation. Zero-length arrays is a much more logical implementation. 07:36:05 I don't see a very significant difference. 07:38:12 I once wrote how I would think is better way to extend C89. 07:40:31 (Maybe you might have seen this.) 07:41:05 I don't think I have? 07:41:45 Well, it is available at: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/black_c.txt 07:52:54 It gives you some of the benefits of macro assemblers. It also gives you some of the benefits of C++, but without all of the stupidity that goes with it. 08:09:13 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:24:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:24:35 I made a sequent calculus of a subtraction game S(1,2,3). There are six rules, three with nothing above the line, and three which each have three sequents above the line. The theorems of this system are numbers that aren't divisible by four (and it is easy to see what goes wrong when you try to prove them). 08:30:31 There are three rules which will accept |- ########0 below the line. If you use rule T1, then you need to prove |- ####0, |- #####0, and |- ######0. However there is no rule which allows proving |- ####0 so you can see it won't work. The similar thing occurs with the other rules. 08:32:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZZ). 08:34:59 But 9 is possible to prove, by using rule T1, to get 5, 6, and 7 above the line. To prove 5, use rule T1. To prove 6, use rule T2. To prove 7, use rule T3. In all cases you will get 1, 2, and 3 above the line, and 1, 2, and 3 are all axioms. Q.E.D. 08:37:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:44:35 -!- rntz has left. 09:17:53 @unmtl ReaderT Maybe a b 09:17:53 Maybe -> a b 09:18:00 @unmtl ReaderT a Maybe b 09:18:00 a -> Maybe b 09:19:49 @unmtl MaybeT (Reader a) b 09:19:49 (Reader a) (Maybe b) 09:20:09 whoa, dude, crazy, huh 09:21:18 why is that broken? 09:22:45 @unmtl MaybeT m a 09:22:45 m (Maybe a) 09:22:58 Bad bracket handling 09:23:10 @unmtl StateT s (Reader a) b 09:23:10 s -> (Reader a) (b, s) 09:40:25 zzo38: I really like complex.h myself 09:41:22 I have made use of complex numbers in C before 09:42:01 Taneb: when are you coming to california btw 09:42:20 shachaf, 2016 09:42:23 hth 09:43:00 why 2016 09:43:19 Why not? 09:45:03 Well, it's far off. 09:45:11 That's at least 2.5 more years of not being in CA. 09:46:49 Not if you take a wormhole. 09:47:16 Well, sure, that's an implicit qualifier on most things I say. 09:47:59 If you are going / to San Fran Cisco... 09:48:51 Flour, hare, etc.? 09:49:32 Yes. 09:51:30 Speaking of which, this was off the side of the path on Thursday: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130616-p1170896.jpg 09:51:42 (It's like living in the NATURE.) 09:54:06 do you have something smaller than THREE MEGABYTES hth 09:59:42 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130616-p1170896-small.jpg less than six hundred kilobytes hth 10:00:19 It's the sort of thing you'd dump all that flour on. 10:00:37 (SPOILER WARNING) 10:10:34 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:26:54 FreeFull: Maybe yes you can use complex numbers in C, I think it can be useful in some programs, but I don't like the way C99 implements built-in complex numbers. 10:30:55 C isn't Fortran! 10:33:40 Nor is it COBOL 10:39:15 Yes, it isn't COBOL either! 10:45:51 Thankfully 11:02:36 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:30:08 -!- Bike has joined. 11:40:06 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:51:53 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:10:56 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:35:17 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:40:15 There is no thorn in Computer Modern font 12:44:12 http://www.projectwonderful.com/img/uploads/pics/39684-1284372742.png 12:57:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:10:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 13:11:10 zzo38: :( 13:11:21 why not 13:11:35 zzo38: what do you think of C99, in general? 13:11:39 * kmc thinks he already knows the answer 13:12:17 there are several good things, but also some bad things, which i would change 13:13:13 Bike: i give it 6.5/10 13:13:56 for example, trigrams should be extended with tetragrams 13:14:17 4/10, you're losing me 13:14:34 it's like two am fuck you 13:15:37 4/20, smoke weed every day 13:15:41 how can it be two am 13:15:49 i just woke up, it's light out and shit 13:15:53 i am like a normal person now 13:16:04 AND DO YOU KNOW WHY? http://w1mx.mit.edu/flea-at-mit 13:16:33 a swap meet, huh 13:16:35 do they have good stuff 13:17:45 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 13:19:25 uh 13:19:29 they have entertaining stuff 13:19:45 i probably won't buy anything because i'm moving soon 13:19:51 i'm going to try to sell some shit 13:20:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:20:16 Sunrise here is around 03:54am these days, and it's reasonably light two am too. 13:21:14 Bike: the clientele is 50% young nerds in t-shirt and cargo pants (i.e. me) and 50% old guys with huge beards and suspenders who are trying to buy obscure vacuum tubes 13:21:31 one of the latter was telling me about how back during the war he had the biggest radio in New Jersey 13:21:50 wh...what war 13:21:59 good question 13:22:12 the gulf one 13:22:44 which gulf one 13:22:55 gulf of tonkin 13:22:58 kmc is a flea 13:23:44 "during the World War" "first or second?" "there was a second?!" 13:25:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:25:58 the boer war 13:26:13 The beer bear war. 13:26:55 When was it when the Swedish army invented tinned food? 13:27:57 Probably the you-must-be-making-that-up war. 13:28:33 i understand that constitutes most of sweden's wars 13:29:01 MIT has a lobby with a big wall honoring alums who died in World War I, another wall honoring alums who died in World War II, and a big blank wall 13:29:11 Oh, it was the French 13:29:17 Not the Swedish 13:29:35 kmc: effective 13:29:59 hm i should check wikipedia's inevitable list of conflicts called "world war iii" 13:30:35 world war iiigate 13:30:52 oh me too 13:31:20 http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/World_War_III lol 13:31:48 Only one of my ancestors fought in either world war 13:31:58 World of Wargate III. 13:32:17 a furious footchase 13:32:42 With the copied module and still unknown to Vorshevsky, Russian forces were able to hack the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) system to give the illusion that an attack was happening on the West Coast, while concealing the real attack against the East Coast. 13:33:08 im tanebs father 13:34:06 Bike: that's what they get for using PHP 13:34:27 elliott, aren't you like 8 months younger than me? 13:35:03 Taneb: dont fight the feelings 13:35:33 Taneb, yes, you were conceived from dna extracted from the embryonic elliott 13:35:47 Although the back-story of Star Trek contains numerous minor elements that did not occur in history, the Eugenics Wars marked a substantial deviation. 13:35:53 Phantom_Hoover, that's... 13:35:59 ... 13:36:02 ...plausible 13:36:10 Bike: until it happens irl 13:36:34 well the eugeincs wars ended in 1996 13:36:36 Greg Cox's two-book series The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh develops the idea of the Eugenics Wars in the context of real-life history by representing it as a secret history, and that the truth behind the various civil wars and conflicts in the 1990s was not generally known. 13:36:45 Bike, the memory alpha article on world war iii mentions that in one episode o'brien describes 21st-century earth history as "never that rough" 13:36:58 only true 90s kids remember 13:37:11 despite the whole wwiii nuclear war thing 13:37:30 well i can't find the list, this sucks 13:37:38 i bet the real wwiii is just iran-iraq or the congo 13:37:46 I think there will only ever be one nuclear war in history 13:37:48 or the cold war 13:37:51 ...and it has already happend! 13:37:58 not real!! 13:38:09 maybe like, angola or something 13:38:14 Bike: It's an online encyclopedia everyone can edit, wink wink, nudge nudge. 13:38:21 "a shitload of "minor" conflicts" 13:38:25 cold war was real, we just outsourced all the actual fighting to the third world 13:38:30 outsourced like everything else 13:39:04 yeah but iran-iraq had trenches and gas 13:39:08 way more world warry, imo 13:39:16 poison gas in your ass 13:39:44 was the iran-iraq war caused by disagreements over who was stealing whose name 13:40:12 The Iran-Iraq-IRA war. 13:40:25 they're from completely different roots phantom >: 13:40:56 suuuure 13:41:02 iran contrafunctor 13:41:15 Cobrafunctor. 13:42:00 Your search - "cobrafunctor" - did not match any documents. 13:42:08 "Iran" is actually a corruption of the earlier "Persia" 13:42:19 Which was a principality 13:42:38 They changed the name after the big war against Greece 13:43:07 world war -vii 13:45:17 Bike: they ended in 1996... new timeline 13:45:24 which is actually 2036 our timeline 13:45:32 turns out a couple decades didn't actually happen 13:45:39 which ones 13:45:56 Phantom_Hoover: i just told you they didn't exist 13:46:10 well what do we think happened in them 13:48:03 Phantom_Hoover, there's a new bf derivative on the wiki but I can't be bothered to write a blog post about it, do you want to? 13:48:13 no 13:48:18 i outsourced that to you 13:55:42 Is there a coesoteric? 13:56:14 Taneb: What if north korea actually has nukes 14:00:49 do we think they don't? 14:00:58 been faking all the tests? 14:02:24 kmc: They've outsourced the tests to the US. 14:04:44 kmc: Well, this is the same country that claimed to have found a unicorn lair, and used photographs of some japanese thing as evidence that they have drones 14:05:46 it's pretty hard to fake nuclear earthshaking. 14:06:14 Bike: You just wait for some natural earthshaking that's sufficiently similar, then announce it was your test. (Disclaimer: might not work; am not a geologist.) 14:06:47 And don't believe every silly thing you hear about the DPRK. «According to website io9, the state-sponsored Korean Central News Agency making the announcement poorly translated the alleged findings. In Korean history, the name Kiringul (which the paper translated as "Unicorn Lair") is in fact a site associated with the founder of Koguryŏ, an ancient Korean kingdom.» 14:07:37 not that that isn't silly, but states try to get ancient legitimacy like that all the time. 14:09:16 Americas don't have any legitimacy ever since Europeans have ruined them 14:09:57 could you rephrase readably 14:23:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:27:54 No 14:40:59 :( 14:45:34 kmc: Maybe if you read what I wrote about my extension of C, then you can know what I can think about C99 in general, too. 14:46:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlxIcN_tAM this is hard to watch 15:07:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:19:36 it's pretty hard to fake nuclear earthshaking. 15:19:54 weren't the yields so puny you could have actually just done it with conventional explosions 15:20:40 if you had 6 to 40 thousand tons of TNT 15:20:48 6-9 15:21:28 admittedly that's the range the n1 explosion was in 15:21:53 and that wasn't with high explosives so would probably be seismically distinct 15:32:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:36:11 What would be scary would be North Korea having a nuclear missile with the yeld of Tsar Bomba 15:41:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:10:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 16:14:15 elliott, you know ages ago you said "Taneb, play Brogue" or something so I started playing Brogue 16:14:26 Then a while later I had a succession of computer problems 16:14:45 yes 16:14:55 Well, I am trying to reinstall Brogue 16:14:59 good luck 16:15:00 And having difficulty 16:18:59 the first DPRK nuke test was in the conventional explosives range 16:19:47 -!- root has joined. 16:20:11 -!- root has changed nick to Guest33264. 16:20:33 -!- Guest33264 has changed nick to function. 16:20:34 hm i should play brogue again sometime. i was thinking about maybe playing brogue again earlier today too but then i forgot 16:20:35 -!- function has quit (Changing host). 16:20:35 -!- function has joined. 16:20:47 -!- function has changed nick to constant. 16:22:40 :( 16:22:45 the first DPRK nuke test was in the conventional explosives range <- i heard it fizzled 16:23:04 despite being made with uranium which normally doesn't fizzle 16:25:54 does it fizzie 16:27:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:27:25 no, it just explodes 16:36:40 "I work with a few companies that are disrupting the Enterprise SaaS space and are doing unheard of things with Haskell and Javascript. " 16:36:53 Does anyone here have an idea of what those companies might be? 16:41:15 no 16:41:28 i bet kmc could mock whoever you're quoting though 16:44:01 dis rupt 16:44:34 service as a services 16:45:12 Something as a Something 16:45:21 did kmc break 16:48:03 Should I reply? I mean, it's not often some industry person goes and mentions Haskell 16:48:08 I wonder how hard it would be to write a 4D raytracer 16:52:49 is this a recruiter or something 16:53:17 a lot of jobs mention haskell and want you to know haskell but don't really use haskell much 16:53:22 Sgeo, well do you actually know haskell 16:53:36 Taneb, about as hard as a 3d raytracer i imagine 16:53:48 only difficulty i can think of is if you need to use cross products for some reason 16:53:59 How hard would it be to write a 1D raytracer 16:54:17 my friend bought a turntable at swapfest and then some old guy talked at length about what jethro tull album he should listen to 16:54:21 Pretty easy, I imagine 16:54:25 (the answer: thick as a brick, three times) 16:54:33 -!- conehead has joined. 16:54:43 Phantom_Hoover, I know a bit of Haskell 16:55:30 cross products are so dumb 16:56:00 kmc, yeah, recruiter 16:56:18 I'd still feel weird leaving a good job that I've only just gotten into, though 16:56:29 Probably wouldn't look good in the future 16:56:35 you have to be UNSENTIMENTAL AND DRIVEN 16:57:09 since recruiters are in the recruitment industry, they're not really "industry persons" in *our* industry 16:57:32 I think I should at least wait until contract runs out and they either offer me or fail to offer me full employment before making such decisions 16:59:39 Sgeo: yeah 17:03:32 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 17:04:38 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 17:08:22 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:14:07 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 17:17:18 elliott, would you believe I have Brogue working 17:18:40 yes 17:19:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:20:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:23:34 Good 17:23:36 Because I have 17:25:06 It wasn't working before? 17:25:13 Also, are there online servers for Brogue yet? 17:28:58 "At the You die... --MORE-- prompt, pressing i will reveal your inventory with all items fully identified.' 17:29:13 Should really say (press i to see items) at the prompt or something 17:29:19 Or do a NetHack DYWYPI? 17:39:48 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:47:54 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:08:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:13:29 Taneb, so if you'e doing things other people tell you 18:30:46 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:31:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:33:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:36:41 -!- augur has joined. 18:40:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:40:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:48:36 Phantom_Hoover, some things 19:14:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:43 whoa 19:36:50 there's a 'roguelike radio'? o_O 19:37:02 with 70 episodes(!!) 19:37:04 haha 19:51:39 -!- nooga_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:51:46 -!- nooga has joined. 20:06:41 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:16:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:23:37 Taneb: when are you going to invent the esolang Main Page.? 20:23:45 s/w/W/ 20:24:07 shachaf, once I've written a tables tutorial and moved to California 20:24:46 Taneb: But imagine all the free publicity! 20:24:49 `welcome Taneb 20:24:55 Taneb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:36:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:38:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:40:30 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:43:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:51:06 !bfjoust 20:51:07 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 20:53:39 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130616-lago-di-como.flac was a while since the last piece of noises. 20:55:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:55:36 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:55:51 fizzie: wow 20:56:12 (Technically speaking it should loop, but I suppose that's a bit meaningless.) 20:57:25 is this what finland sounds like 20:57:36 No, of course not, Lake Como is in Italy. 20:57:41 wtf is with the logs 20:59:59 `ls 21:00:02 ​‮ \ bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 21:00:49 `run ls | head -n 1 | hexdump -C 21:00:51 00000000 e2 80 ae 0a |....| \ 00000004 21:00:53 Best file, I guess. 21:01:25 what IS that... the entire logs after the `ls earlier today is on one backwards line in my browser... 21:01:40 Oh, it's one of the right-to-left control things. 21:01:59 fancy. too fancy. 21:02:27 `rm ​‮ 21:02:29 rm: cannot remove ` ​‮ ': No such file or directory 21:02:38 U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE character. 21:02:57 but why on one line... 21:03:37 You may have to ask your browser that; I just get that single line the wrong way around. 21:03:44 (In codu logs, at least.) 21:04:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 21:04:36 (And "rm: cannot remove ` yrotcerid ro elif hcus oN :'" too.) 21:06:01 fizzie: well i'm normally using the .txt logs because the formatted ones have this hideously large font. 21:06:38 but i guess i can make an exception. and i just found out that i can change the font (i tried zooming earlier which breaks the formatting) 21:07:00 anyway... 21:07:18 `run run ls | head -n 1 | xargs file 21:07:20 bash: run: command not found \ Usage: file [-bchikLNnprsvz0] [--apple] [--mime-encoding] [--mime-type] \ [-e testname] [-F separator] [-f namefile] [-m magicfiles] file ... \ file -C [-m magicfiles] \ file [--help] 21:07:28 `run ls | head -n 1 | xargs file 21:07:30 empty 21:07:30 Run, ls, run. 21:07:37 run HackEgo ... damn fizzie 21:07:49 `run ls | head -n 1 | xargs rm 21:07:54 No output. 21:07:57 `ls 21:07:59 bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 21:08:04 Bye-bye, U+202E. :/ 21:08:51 "test \ Test \ testbot \ test.hi \ Test.hi \ test.hs \ Test.hs \ test.o \ Test.o" this is starting to look like my home directory. 21:09:06 may be time for another cleanup 21:09:14 shachaf@carbon:~$ ls | egrep '^..?$' | wc -l 21:09:14 73 21:10:38 http://sprunge.us/hacg time for another cleanup? (Okay, they're at least all in ~/tmp.) 21:10:59 -!- variable has joined. 21:11:33 `help 21:11:34 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:12:28 `run rm Test* 21:12:31 No output. 21:12:43 `run kill -9 $$ 21:12:45 Killed 21:12:57 `ls 21:13:00 bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ test \ testbot \ test.hi \ test.hs \ test.o \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 21:13:22 `run rm test* 21:13:26 rm: cannot remove `testbot': Is a directory 21:13:49 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:14:19 wtf is wrong with the repository browser 21:16:24 why is testbot not in the browser 21:16:28 `file testbot 21:16:29 testbot: directory 21:16:35 `ls testbot 21:16:37 No output. 21:16:47 ok an empty directory, they do that. 21:16:59 `rmdir testbot 21:17:00 No output. 21:17:06 `ls testbot 21:17:09 ls: cannot access testbot: No such file or directory 21:17:16 `ls 21:17:18 bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hbDf \ hello \ hello.c \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ q \ quines \ quotes \ raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz \ share \ src \ uk \ uk.1 \ wisdom 21:17:59 `file uk 21:18:01 uk: ASCII English text, with very long lines, with no line terminators 21:18:30 imo file should recognize uk english vs us english vs #esoteric english etc hth 21:21:27 Does one recognize #esoteric english from its hthquency? 21:21:46 `run rm uk* 21:21:50 No output. 21:21:57 fizzie: wdh? 21:22:01 oops 21:22:04 *wth 21:22:14 fizzie: no, that's oerjan english hth 21:22:32 I assume that everyone in Norway uses hth as much as oerja does, when they talk in English. 21:23:56 @tell Gregor when viewing a file, why doesn't the repository browser show the last edit to that file instead of the whole repository :( 21:23:56 Consider it noted. 21:24:15 oerjan: ? 21:24:17 `? norway 21:24:19 Norway is the suburb capital of Sweden. It's where the Nobel Peace Prize is announced. 21:24:22 `paste blah 21:24:24 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/blah 21:24:51 @tell Gregor oh i found a file log link. still unintuitive. 21:24:51 Consider it noted. 21:25:52 `rm raw.php?i=uwbmWGSz 21:25:56 No output. 21:26:13 `rm q 21:26:17 No output. 21:26:52 oh wait that wasn't the contents listed, but the file type. probably not important anyway. 21:26:55 `revert 21:26:59 Done. 21:27:00 `file q 21:27:01 q: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped 21:27:23 `? dahl 21:27:24 dahl? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:42 oerjan: i demand a wisdom entry for dahl hth 21:28:07 `q 21:28:08 const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509 21:28:17 `ls quines 21:28:19 cat \ perl \ python \ ruby 21:28:32 `run mv q quines 21:28:35 No output. 21:29:13 `learn dahl dih dahl dahl 21:29:17 I knew that. 21:29:27 oerjan: i demand an oerjan-authored wisdom entry for dahl hth 21:31:18 oerjan: you have no good reason to believe this sentence hth 21:31:32 of course i do it has hth in it hth 21:32:00 you can't believe everything you read............unless it has hth in it hth 21:32:14 tbh wtf is hth 21:32:32 `hello 21:32:33 Hello 21:32:39 `maze 21:32:39 `hello myndzi 21:32:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: maze: not found 21:32:41 Hello 21:32:50 `./maze 21:32:52 ​╱╱╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╲╲╲╲╲╲╲╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╲╱╲╱╱ 21:33:05 !maze 40 5 21:33:05 ╺━━━┳━━━━━━━┳┳┳━━━━━┳┳━┳━━┳┳┳┳┳┳━━━┳━━┳┳┓ 21:33:06 ┏━━╸┣━╸╺┳━━┳┛╹╹╻┏╸╻┏┛╹╺┫╺┳┫╹╹╹╹┗┓╺━┻╸╺┛╹┃ 21:33:06 ┃╺┓╺┫╺━┳┫╺┳┛╺━┓┣┻┳┻┛╺━━┛╺┛╹╺┓╺━━┛╺━┳━┓╺┳┫ 21:33:07 ┣━┫╺┛╺━┛╹╺┛╺━┳┻┛┏┻╸╺━━┓┏╸╺┓╻┃╻╺┓╻┏━┛╺┻┳┛┃ 21:33:07 ┣╸╹╻╺┓╺┓╻┏╸╻╺┛╺┓┗╸╻╺━┓┃┣╸╺┻┻┻┻━┻┻┻╸╺━━┛╺┛ 21:33:08 ┗━━┻━┻━┻┻┻━┻━━━┻━━┻━━┻┻┻━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━╸ 21:33:09 useful maze 21:33:10 :D 21:33:16 oh shi 21:33:17 on my new computer 21:33:22 the unicode isn't all screwy 21:33:30 mine too! 21:33:31 don't install any fonts don't install any fonts don't install any fonts... 21:33:39 Um, what're those ���s? 21:33:41 !lolmaze 40 5 21:33:41 ╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱ 21:33:42 ╲╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╱╲╲╱╲ 21:33:42 ╲╱╱╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╱╱╱╲╱╲ 21:33:43 ╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╲╲╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╱ 21:33:43 ╱╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╱╱╲╲╱╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╱ 21:33:44 ╲╱╲╲╲╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╱╱╱╱╱╲╲ 21:33:44 ╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱ 21:33:48 there we go, that's the one i was looking for 21:33:50 spacing's whack though 21:33:55 ok that is screwy hth 21:33:56 lol this font has kerning 21:34:05 fixed width symbols with kerning 21:34:12 fantastic :P 21:34:25 !maze 40 5 40 5 21:34:26 ╺━━━━━━━┳━━━━┳┳━━━━━━━━━┳━━━━━┳━━━━━━┳━━┓ 21:34:26 ┏━━━╸┏━╸┗━━┳╸╹┗┳━━╸╺━━┓╺┻━━━╸┏╋╸╺┳━╸╺┻━╸┃ 21:34:26 ┣━━━━┻━━━━╸┗┳╸╺┻━╸┏━━━┻━━━━╸╺┛┗╸╺╋━╸╺━━┓┃ 21:34:27 ┣╸╻┏╸╺┓┏━━━┓┗━╸╺┳━╋━┳━━━━━╸╺┳╸┏╸╺┫╻╻╺━━┫┃ 21:34:27 ┣╸┣┻━━┻┻━╸╺┻━━╸┏┻╸╹╺┛┏━━━╸╻┏┛╺┻━┓┗┫┣╸╺┓┗┛ 21:34:28 ┗━┻━━━━━━━━━━━━┻━━━━━┻━━━━┻┻━━━━┻━┻┻━━┻━╸ 21:34:30 there, less goofy 21:34:38 shachaf: probably half-bars 21:34:49 they weren't in the original line drawing set 21:34:50 Windows does font rendering in the kernel, so it's the only one to get kerning right. 21:34:56 hth 21:35:15 sure, but the font specifies the metrics 21:35:29 this font apparently says "make that diagonal line close to other diagonal lines" 21:37:03 wait am i supposed to be viewing this with a non-fixed width font because I DON'T hth 21:37:31 You should fix your IRC, HTH, HAND 21:38:05 oerjan: hang on 21:38:09 you DON't hth? 21:38:14 do you hidh? 21:38:22 s/i/t/ 21:38:23 no, it is supposed to be fixed-width 21:38:24 or not 21:38:29 `rm hbDf 21:38:33 No output. 21:38:35 i was observing that the zigzaggy one, on whatever font it's being rendered in, has kerning between // 21:38:39 and therefore doesn't line up 21:38:50 shachaf: your parsing is wacky hth 21:39:08 my parsing is wacky hope? what? 21:39:47 oerjan: did you know hth is banned from another channel i'm in 21:40:08 also it's your fault, right? 21:40:16 is it #haskell 21:40:17 yes hth 21:40:20 no hth 21:40:28 it's my fault because i overused it 21:40:50 hey you should stop by #haskell 21:40:56 everyone misses you hth 21:41:48 `ls 21:41:49 bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hello \ hello.c \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ maze \ maze.c \ multiply.bf \ paste \ pref \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom 21:42:41 `rum mv maze* hello* share 21:42:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rum: not found 21:42:48 `run mv maze* hello* share 21:42:52 No output. 21:43:22 i declare share to be the carpet to sweep things under that are too good to delete hth 21:44:01 `run ls -l `which sh` 21:44:03 lrwxrwxrwx 1 0 0 4 Oct 14 2011 /bin/sh -> dash 21:44:13 `run echo $SHELL 21:44:14 ​/bin/sh 21:44:19 `run echo 'sh -c "$1"' > bin/rum; chmod +x bin/run 21:44:23 chmod: cannot access `bin/run': No such file or directory 21:44:26 `run echo 'sh -c "$1"' > bin/rum; chmod +x bin/rum 21:44:30 No output. 21:45:02 `pastelogs hth 21:45:18 "hth: origins" 21:45:20 don't do it nooodl 21:45:25 don't dooodl 21:45:30 i have to..... 21:45:33 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.134 21:45:33 i must know 21:46:02 you gotta \bhth\b it 21:46:05 2008-04-22.txt:10:37:30: ITYM "olkoslept" HTH HAND. 21:46:11 fizzie.... 21:46:22 2008-06-23.txt:22:34:12: tusho: ITYM "IIRC FTW". HTH. 21:46:24 2008-06-23.txt:22:34:34: ITYM? HTH? 21:46:30 i love how fizzie invented hth 21:46:30 a microcosm of vorpal 21:46:42 2008-08-10.txt:12:33:00: HTH? 21:46:54 and then he forgot what it meant within two months 21:46:55 2008-08-10.txt:12:32:43: Mostly used in the construction "ITYM 'foo' HTH HAND". 21:47:01 `pastelogs \bhth\b 21:47:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17933 21:47:39 also... elliott spearheaded the initial hth deluge 21:48:11 2012-12-24.txt:00:04:47: oerjan: Who is evil hth? 21:48:11 2012-12-24.txt:00:05:00: shachaf hth 21:48:46 nice 21:48:49 -!- constant has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 21:48:53 `pastelogs zzo38.*hth 21:49:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20843 21:49:29 ~freaky~ 21:49:29 i am increasingly getting the feeling that IE10 has broken _every_ detail of IE8's behavior that i've become accustomed to depend on. i cannot even change the starting point of an ^F search any more... 21:49:31 hmm should there be `zzo38logs 21:49:49 "an ^F"? 21:49:56 *a 21:49:58 How do you pronounce that? 21:50:04 an control-f hth 21:50:07 no i want juicy norwegian information 21:50:29 `cat bin/pastelogs 21:50:31 ​#!/bin/bash \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ 21:50:44 and if i change to a different browser it'll probably do things in a _different_ annoying way instead. 21:51:09 `run pastlog hth | tac | paste 21:51:11 `run ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric 21:51:17 hmm is there a map of "where in the world is #esoteric" anywhere 21:51:24 there was one 21:51:27 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29749 21:51:30 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt \ 2003-01-26.txt \ 2003-01- 21:51:37 fuck 21:52:00 Phantom_Hoover: y'know, that's really the core of it 21:52:01 `paste bin/pastelog 21:52:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastelog 21:52:10 simple and elegant 21:52:14 wowwwww 21:52:25 a piece of modern hth art hth 21:52:45 i almost wanna `learn hth is http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29749 21:52:51 but iirc it's good right now 21:52:54 `? hth 21:52:56 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 21:53:30 wow that's p. bad 21:53:33 pad 21:53:53 `thanks hth 21:53:54 A one-time bad is provocably secure. 21:53:54 Thanks, hth. Tth. 21:54:32 ITYM "brovocably" HTH HAND 21:54:41 HEY EVERYONE REMEMBER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kid_Pix 21:54:59 no :( 21:56:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krlmGTQAfYw 21:58:21 wait a minute that's not the right version is it 21:58:44 maybe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TayProAkmBE 21:59:31 yes that's the one 21:59:38 maybe 22:05:29 Remember when computer monitors had a builtin pinch effect? 22:06:18 what's a pinch effect 22:06:25 TayProAkmBE 22:06:52 is that supposed to be an answer because i still have no clue 22:07:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TayProAkmBE 22:07:28 oh duh 22:11:59 Remember when you could wave a magnet near a screen and it'd get all colorful and stuffs? 22:12:06 Then it'd get stuck that way. 22:12:50 ion: um where in that was the pinch effect twh 22:13:05 oerjan: In the MONITOR. 22:13:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:13:55 oh you mean the overall picture shape? 22:14:35 bingo 22:14:49 `? bingo 22:14:51 bingo? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:15:02 I do remember CRTs having barrel distortion twiddles you could twaddle to hopefully make the image area a bit more rectangular. 22:15:10 fizzie: yeah 22:15:12 Yep. 22:15:24 remember Degauss 22:15:57 It's the thing that more or less fixed the thing you had done with the aforementioned magnet. 22:16:07 Also goes "twang". 22:16:36 good old Carl Friedrich Degauss 22:17:02 John Barrel should never have implemented Barrel distortion in monitors, that sucked. 22:17:34 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:17:40 Decarl Defriedrich Degauss 22:17:48 Cogauss 22:17:54 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:18:05 hi zzo38 22:18:21 Do you have anything good for us today? 22:24:29 I don't know yet. 22:24:49 it's 00:24 am here! you've got all day 22:25:32 The third book doesn't come out until September :( 22:25:42 Some monitors automatically degaussed every time you turned them on 22:33:15 "Iran" is actually a corruption of the earlier "Persia" <-- um... 22:33:42 Best phone conversation in a feature film http://youtu.be/hroUeu4IvpE hth 22:34:34 Is there a coesoteric? <-- is that the place where brainfuck derivatives are considered high art? 22:36:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:36:44 ion: is that zzo38 22:37:14 oerjan: And where adbmalbot operates 22:39:20 ion: is that indian english how she is spoken 22:44:02 I think I did manage to write the sequent calculus of sequent calculus. 22:44:32 (I think kmc or someone else on here suggested doing that?) 22:46:52 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:03:53 -!- sacje has joined. 23:23:23 You might even be able to combine the sequent calculus of sequent calculus with the other system which it is imitating, and make up the new system, which can then be combined with it again, etc 23:25:12 Now it knows itself. Well, kind of; it knows what it was before the sequent calculus of its own sequent calculus was added. 23:26:10 what the zzo 23:29:18 Phantom_Hoover: Please be more specific! 23:29:37 that was an expletive 23:30:45 It doesn't matter if it is expletive or explosive or whatever, if you want to ask a question such as "what ____" you should please be more specific? 23:32:14 sorry zzo 23:38:19 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:39:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:40:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:43:35 -!- Zerker has joined. 23:57:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2013-06-17: 00:01:06 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:04:24 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 00:05:25 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:32 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 00:31:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:41:58 "Dr. James M Peebles, M.D, M.A. Ph.D., and 91 years old, states whiskey is key to a long life, although he advises against eating meats." 00:42:19 also <3 these line drawing characters 00:42:45 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:42:58 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 00:43:07 :O 00:43:19 :ꙮ 00:44:03 copumpkin: relative of yours? 00:44:21 maybe, but I haven't heard of him :) 00:44:27 my grandfather is 100 and has whiskey everyday 00:44:41 every day 00:44:49 isn't it kind of whisky to do that at his age 00:46:16 also this was from @CenturyAgoToday so I guess he's 191 years old now? 00:46:58 kmc: how often do you have whiskey 00:47:03 lol 00:47:07 I guess he must be 00:47:12 interesting though 00:47:17 that guy has too many degrees, anyway 00:47:29 Record heat wave in the Midwest leads to five deaths in Chicago as temperatures reach near 100 Fahrenheit (38 C). 00:47:32 speaking of too many degrees 00:48:11 shachaf: not v. often 00:48:24 i bought a bottle of whiskey a while back and finished it and haven't purchased another 00:48:33 right now drinking Stone Smoked Porter 00:48:43 * copumpkin has a lambic with his rice 00:49:14 lambic pentameter 00:49:18 yup 00:49:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:50:13 nom 00:50:41 copumpkin should write us a sonnet 00:50:59 and/or read that that story 00:51:19 sing us a song you're the copumpkin 00:51:33 and/or figure out how to make monad transformers work with negative-position things 00:51:48 oh dear 00:51:58 did you try comonad cotransformers 00:52:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 00:52:27 nope "is that the answer" 00:52:32 "what's the question" 00:53:00 hey what do you think of class Functor m => Monad m where monad :: Free m a -> m a 00:53:03 the future y/n 00:53:32 hth 00:53:52 tdhat 00:54:13 ow 00:54:24 data Free = ... ? 00:54:50 data Free f a = Pure a | Free (f (Free f a)) 00:55:15 it's a free monad "like a free monoid except in the category of endofunctors hth" 00:55:35 In fact you can compare this with class Monoid m where mconcat :: [m] -> m 00:56:40 good times 00:56:47 Free is a "p. fun type imo" imo hth 00:57:13 we may be overdoing it with the "#esoteric house style" 00:58:27 Soon all conversation will be encoded in strings of quotes, imo, hth 00:59:11 kmc: "did you see http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/operational-monad.html btw" 01:03:05 no, cool 01:08:14 Oh, so Program f = Free (CoYoneda f) 01:08:24 Which I think edwardk said somewhere. 01:08:33 I have also said Free (CoYoneda f) 01:08:43 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:08:58 So I know what Free (CoYoneda f) is. 01:09:07 What is it? 01:10:04 It is, if f is a GADT, the monad can have an operation which calls one of the constructor of a GADT like a command that returns a result, kind of. 01:10:12 I might not have explained it very well. 01:10:35 Well, f ought to be a Functor, oughtn't it? 01:10:37 that does sound similar to 'operational' 01:11:07 shachaf: No. (CoYoneda f) is a Functor even if f isn't. (If f is a functor, then CoYoneda f = f) 01:11:32 Example: data F :: * -> * where { GetChar :: F Char; PutChar :: Char -> F (); }; 01:12:08 Right. But then it's not the same as Free F. 01:12:41 Correct. However, then Free F isn't a monad since this F cannot be a functor. 01:12:54 But, Free (CoYoneda F) is a monad since (CoYoneda F) is a functor. 01:13:00 Right. 01:13:54 copumpkin: So doing a DList-style thing on Kleisli composition gives you something which behaves a lot like Codensity. 01:14:15 Can you get Codensity Monad instance out of it? 01:16:41 zzo38: What about Free (Yoneda f)? 01:16:51 Or maybe Cofree (Yoneda f) or something? 01:17:20 I don't know if that makes anything of any use. 01:29:47 edward snowdenhands 01:31:36 Is there any place where Yoneda is better than CoYoneda? 01:32:10 Maybe in some cases; each is capable of different things. However, I do not think of a specific example at thist ime. 01:33:28 Right. 01:42:21 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:52:26 i get it, training 01:52:34 you're a quick one 01:52:49 because they're trains 01:52:52 yes 01:52:56 it's a true story tho 01:53:13 based on a true story 01:53:46 i saw a freight train on the caltrain tracks and it was good 01:54:27 zzo38: What are some cofree things other than cofree comonads? 01:54:42 did it whoosh by 01:55:03 are you talking about your joke or the train 01:55:18 the train leisurelily whooshed by 01:55:23 ok 01:55:56 consider the leisurelilies 01:56:16 shachaf: have you read _Player Piano_ by vonnegut? 01:56:26 Nope. 01:56:30 today i was told to read it 01:56:33 seems like a p. good idea 01:56:51 i have a bunch of kurt vonnebooks to read "but not that one" 01:56:59 maybe i should read that one 01:57:22 another one that i don't have:::: _The Sirens of Titan_ 01:58:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Junction_from_Mass_Ave.JPG there is a nuclear reactor in this photo 01:58:56 don't you think that should be mentioned in the description 01:59:13 oh I've walked by that before 01:59:14 I think 01:59:23 whose nukular is it 01:59:24 the unassuming blue dome w/ the smokestack 01:59:26 MIT's 01:59:33 one of the last remaining HEU research reactors in the country 01:59:34 I guess that was a stupid question 01:59:37 hmm can i have a nuclear reactor 01:59:39 no 01:59:51 shachaf cannot be entrusted with one 01:59:56 I will use it well, however 02:02:47 ok 02:02:49 you can have one 02:05:28 yayayayayayayay 02:05:37 Imma see if I can light things on fire with it 02:06:05 I put the sequent calculus of sequent calculus into the computer, now. 02:06:23 Can you please check the sequent calculus of Turing machine to see if I have made any mistakes in it? 02:06:51 A proof is actually related to a halting problem! 02:07:03 Now I can understand why! 02:07:22 zzo38.gödel.moed++ 02:07:54 kmc: p. sure gödel didn't prove things equivalent to the halting problem hth 02:08:07 close enuf 02:08:09 gö̈̈̈̈̈̈ del 02:08:11 help 02:12:55 send pocky 02:13:39 It is provable if and only if it halts. 02:16:51 fuck's sake 02:17:09 i think i'm spoiled for intelligent criticism after finding that sci-fi blog the other day 02:18:02 I am unable to make the sequent calculus of nim game. (I tried, but it doesn't work properly.) Do you know how to do this? 02:18:48 However, I can do the subtraction game (which is related to the nim game). 02:21:15 lesson of the day: nobody can be bothered to do intelligent long-form critiques of homestuck 02:21:41 Can you use shorthand? 02:22:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:22:20 my hands are the same length 02:23:56 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:23:56 sadly i do not know shorthand 02:28:18 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:29:20 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:34:17 what if growing a mustache is a defense against people drawing mustaches on pictures of you 02:42:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 02:48:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:48:44 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 02:59:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:08:52 -!- Bike has joined. 03:08:53 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:27:01 shachaf: ah mimicry? 03:58:20 Maybe Cofree (Yoneda f) is useful. 03:58:25 data Coop f a = a :< (forall b. (Coop f a -> b) -> f b) 03:58:32 Is that useful? 03:58:37 I bet it isn't. 03:59:52 cuppa coffee 04:00:22 instance Functor (Coop f) where fmap f (x :< k) = f x :< (. (. fmap f)) k 04:00:36 instance Comonad (Coop f) where { extract (x :< _) = x; duplicate w@(_ :< k) = w :< (. (. duplicate)) k } 04:09:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:22:32 The Beer, Burritos, and Bonghits Diet 04:27:43 copyright kmc 04:28:07 photo of me in a lab coat on the cover of the book 04:32:21 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:45:02 -!- L8D has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:50:34 `? indexed monad 04:50:36 indexed monad? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:51:08 `? monads 04:51:10 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 04:51:23 `run >'indexed monad' echo 'Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors.' 04:51:27 No output. 04:51:27 `? indexed monads 04:51:29 indexed monads? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:51:40 Didn't that thing do antipluralization? 04:51:45 `cat bin/? 04:51:46 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ else echo "$1? ¯\ 04:51:49 `? indexed monad 04:51:51 indexed monad? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:51:57 Oh. 04:52:02 `run mv 'indexed monad' wisdom/ 04:52:05 No output. 04:52:06 `? indexed monads 04:52:08 Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. 04:52:28 21:51 The other meaning is monad on an indexed category. 04:52:28 help 04:52:47 `? dolio 04:52:49 dolio? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:52:53 not worth listening to, clearly 04:53:01 `run echo 'Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category' >> wisdom/'indexed monad' 04:53:04 No output. 04:53:05 `? indexed monads 04:53:07 Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. \ Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category 04:55:01 TCS 110: Object-oriented Programming for Artists 04:55:03 Introduction to object-oriented programming for artists. Focus on understanding the metaphors and potential of object-oriented programming for sound, video, performance, and interactive installations. 05:03:16 kmc: oh man #haskell is so great right now 05:03:36 there's this one person who regularly tells beginners that Applicative and Monad instances should disagree 05:03:44 now everything is an argument about that 05:05:22 and praytell what are the ops doing about this 05:05:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:05:47 participating 05:05:50 what would you do 05:05:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:05:55 i was promised an iron fist 05:06:07 if you join #haskell you can have a temporary iron fist 05:06:15 but only if you use it well 05:06:24 it's more like a few dozen iron fists, tied to one another 05:06:26 I don't think this person is actually malicious, though I don't know. 05:06:28 i'm drunk so, no 05:06:33 'malicious' is not really the standard 05:06:44 Right. 05:07:05 Whatever the standard is it should be extensional, with the goal of making the channel a pleasant place. 05:07:47 But malice is an easy heuristicthing. 05:09:17 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: tire). 05:16:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 05:20:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:20:52 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:33:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:50:06 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:54:35 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:27 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:48:26 Hmm, so the decision of whether to use i or -i is like the decision of which way the rows and columns go in a matrix. 06:50:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:50:16 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 06:51:40 Haneb 07:02:14 -!- nooga_ has joined. 07:03:39 -!- kmc has set topic: Not for the other use | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 07:09:48 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:15:42 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 07:16:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:18:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:20:41 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 07:56:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 08:04:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:56:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:04:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:07:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:54:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:54:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:12:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:15 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:29:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:35:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:49:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:56:42 `slist 10:56:44 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:57:31 Sgeo, can you start tagging the `slist with something to sort of describe the update without being too spoilery so I can see if I've already read it? 10:57:38 no, Sgeo, stop making slist updates and start making olist updates 10:57:48 22:26 < theresa> [A6A6I1] ====> (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=008191) 10:57:51 22:26 < theresa> new: 247 pesterlines (ROXY: 86); 5 images; 5 pages 10:57:53 why don't you get a bot like that in here 10:58:33 we don't know 10:58:37 we just don't know 10:59:04 (i though homestuck was on hiatus...) 10:59:18 (i wish.......................................) 10:59:33 (maybe it's off hiatus.....................................) 10:59:34 s/\...// 10:59:47 hi atus 10:59:59 hi atrus 11:00:05 remember atrus????????????????????? 11:00:08 no 11:00:12 from uh riven 11:00:20 and myst and the other ones 11:00:30 What about atriq? 11:00:34 Remember atriq? 11:00:37 no 11:00:38 I hated atriq 11:00:51 fuck that guy 11:00:56 annoying cheery prick 11:01:07 i liked atriq 11:01:25 i wish they'd come back 11:01:26 why 11:01:51 `?hh atriq 11:01:53 ahtrihq ohr two 11:02:23 Phantom_Hoover, it is off hiatus 11:02:36 Sgeo...................................... . . . . . . . . . . . . 11:02:41 "Edit: Megapause over. Snipped everything except the awesome HTML table below because of how sweet it is. " 11:02:50 Yeah, this is the fourth update since the hiatus 11:03:41 mnoqy: ok what book on linear algebra should i read 11:04:05 The Stainless Steel Rat by Harry Harrison 11:04:40 shachaf: idk 11:04:53 Totally about linear algebra 11:04:59 Not at all about rats 11:05:05 mnoqy: well i just ordered one 11:05:08 ok 11:05:09 so i hope you name that one 11:05:11 is it good 11:05:17 how would i know 11:05:20 ok 11:05:27 Actually, Stainless Steel Rat is less about rats than Of Mice and Men is about mice 11:05:37 someone described it as being unspoilt by applications 11:05:40 which sounds good?? 11:05:46 yes that does sound good 11:06:57 iv never really had a linear algebra book . . . iv had a linear algebra course and there was sort of a book there but the course went a lot more in depth than the book and most of the exercises werent from the book [they were more interesting than the book exercises] 11:07:07 what course was it 11:07:15 should i have that course 11:07:48 :-) 11:07:54 anyway whats the book you got 11:08:13 whats the course you got 11:08:35 how am i supposed to answer that because im not going to 11:08:44 A course is a course, of course, of course 11:09:26 it was good though...unspoilt by applications 11:09:31 well you could start with your social security number and just go from there 11:09:42 what book did you use 11:09:56 well the book wasnt really used much at all 11:10:03 so what does it matter... 11:10:09 well what was it called 11:10:13 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 11:10:20 was the book spoilt by applications 11:10:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:10:26 i forget but i dont think so 11:10:35 Was it "Latin Beyond GCSE" 11:10:45 no 11:10:52 "Writing Latin"? 11:10:56 yes 11:10:56 is that like mcse 11:11:02 yes 11:11:05 it was writing latin 11:11:05 but more general 11:11:25 shachaf, was yours Writing Latin? 11:11:33 mnoqy: was it "really" writing latin or are you just trying to get Taneb off your case 11:11:41 shachaf: you got me... 11:11:59 you're so transparent, mnoqy 11:12:06 Taneb: maybe..........................yes(no) 11:12:13 Okay 11:12:16 I think mine is 11:12:33 I am going to do a linear algebra exam now 11:12:51 I hope predicative datives come up 11:12:56 I like predicative datives 11:12:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:13:34 mnoqy: so what's with all the moustaches on super mega lately 11:14:07 you mean the most recent super mega?? 11:14:14 yeah that has a moustache in it 11:14:30 yes but also other ones 11:15:55 mnoqy: whoa dude are linear transformations like concatenative languages 11:16:09 yes(no) 11:16:12 shachaf: what 11:16:23 exactly 11:17:42 mnoqy: i actually meant the way "composition" and "application" are kind of similar...... 11:18:21 shachaf......... 11:18:38 dude it's totally a good sense maker 11:20:21 :☺) 11:33:43 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:39:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:11 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:53:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:58:33 01:58:50: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grand_Junction_from_Mass_Ave.JPG there is a nuclear reactor in this photo 11:58:36 01:58:56: don't you think that should be mentioned in the description 11:58:38 kmc: it is... 12:11:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:13:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:13:43 -!- augur has joined. 12:16:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:16:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Client Quit). 12:18:27 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:24:07 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:24:07 -!- Fiora has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:24:20 -!- Fiora has joined. 12:37:32 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 12:49:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 13:17:09 -!- lasserix has joined. 13:31:09 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 13:34:15 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:47:23 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:48:13 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:48:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:06:34 -!- clog has joined. 14:19:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:20:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:43:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:50:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:25:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:33:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:59:22 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:08:03 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:10:15 -!- lasserix has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."). 16:46:48 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:53:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:53:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:55:17 -!- conehead has joined. 17:28:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:28:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:34:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:44:03 elliott: it is now 17:46:35 oh 17:46:37 thank you DdEe4Aai 17:46:50 whoever the hell you are 17:54:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/DdEe4Aai take a wild guess 17:55:31 I'm thinking kmc's middle name. 17:55:56 (Weird parents?) 17:58:02 kmc: did you generate that account name so people can't find out your wikipedia secrets 17:58:29 wow [[fork bomb]] has managed to not grow 5000 examples since i deleted 90% of them 17:58:32 praise the lord 17:58:41 Revision as of 05:56, 29 May 2013 (edit) 17:58:41 Rcmaehl (talk | contribs) 17:58:41 (Only 1 DOS example is needed.) 17:58:45 Latest revision as of 01:39, 2 June 2013 (edit) (undo) 17:58:45 75.131.26.156 (talk) 17:58:46 (Undid revision 557293529 -- This is needed for context and removing it as content is deletionism at its finest.) 17:59:07 elliott: did it have a "fork bombs in popular culture" section? 17:59:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:59:33 Fiora: with the obscurity of some of the languages people added fork bombs in, it practically qualified as one :P 17:59:39 fork bombs in unpopular culture 17:59:44 "Fork bombs and their relation to knife bombs" section. 18:00:54 it's the weirdest, most jarring thing when I'm like reading a wikipedia article on some topic like, I don't know, "solid state disk", and then at the bottom there's like "in episode 57.45 of the big bang theory, some character made a joke about a solid state disk" 18:02:07 haha 18:02:13 It doesn't say that in [[Solid-state drive]]. 18:02:15 You liar. 18:02:23 I-I was just giving a hypothetical example! 18:02:45 if big bang theory gets to 57 seasons then we are truly doomed 18:02:57 also there should be a show Big Band Theory 18:02:59 Oh, I thought that was just a fractional episode number. 18:03:21 well there is such a band 18:11:12 "This is Jackie from ECO Energy Engineering company, a leading LED Lighting manufacturer in China." This spam is semantic! 18:12:11 (It can reach fabulous brightness at low watt.) 18:30:35 wow 18:37:51 watt's all this then 18:58:13 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:59:19 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:59:55 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:05:31 -!- ggherdov has joined. 19:44:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:08:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:40:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:54:43 -!- iamcal___ has joined. 21:00:22 -!- ssue__ has joined. 21:16:43 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:26:39 -!- fizzie has joined. 21:47:49 <`^_^v> that feel when a senior dev submits a O(n^3) solution to a O(n) problem 21:47:55 <`^_^v> good thing for code review 21:48:47 Who are you and how do you pronounce your nick 21:48:55 Is it "face v" 21:49:00 "facevee" 21:49:46 <`^_^v> some things are not meant to be pronounced 21:50:05 OK, where does your *username* come from? 21:50:13 <`^_^v> it comes from a smiley face, duh 21:50:25 No, I mean the username, not the nickname. 21:50:41 "nycs" 21:51:06 <`^_^v> *runs away* 21:52:58 dont scare :( 21:53:12 be afraid 21:54:54 why is everyone +v 21:55:58 who's +v? 21:56:12 kmc as well as other people 21:56:28 Including Gregor 21:56:32 That isn't everyone, though. 21:56:40 Everyone who counts. 21:58:59 the O(n^3) solution probably makes the real problem fairly well obfuscated, must be great for "Job Security" 21:59:23 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:59:26 twist: every O(n) solution is an O(n^3) solution 21:59:33 the more work you do overall, the more places to hide useful work 22:00:34 zzo38 counts 22:00:36 he counted to 38 at least 22:02:03 A O(n^3) solution might be better than O(n) if the difference in constant factors is big enough, and n is small enough 22:02:31 what if n = 0 22:02:36 But when is n ever small 22:02:48 n is getting bigger every day, FreeFull 22:02:52 Moore's law and that 22:02:55 let n be, like, a really big number 22:04:02 Like 17 or something 22:06:04 100000000000 22:06:29 let n be the biggest number 22:06:50 ion, as I said, 17 22:08:07 Constant factors can be pretty big 22:08:27 Like 14? 22:08:31 14 is pretty big 22:08:53 14 is not a constant 22:08:53 Not as big as 17, though. 22:15:37 Doesn't n mean the amount of data to process or something like that? 22:26:00 yes, but we don't seem to agree on exactly how much data that is 22:27:12 Well, if we don't know what the problem is, how can we know how much data that is? 22:27:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:27:35 I thought we agreed on 17. 22:28:15 @karma blah 22:28:16 blah has a karma of 26052 22:29:38 I like how lambdabot was using 6% CPU for a second 22:29:52 wow, lambdabot uses a lot of CPU in general 22:29:54 for an irc bot anywy 22:30:22 do you regret your purchase 22:30:35 elliott: maybe it stores karma as a unary coe? 22:30:36 *code 22:31:01 fungot: How much CPU does your sentience matrix use? 22:31:01 fizzie: think cps in common lisp. 22:31:04 Fiora: you know, given the quality of some of lambdabot's code I wouldn't rule it out 22:31:14 fungot: So... not much, then? 22:31:15 fizzie: i said that you suggested a different implementation strategy for heap synchronization ( namely optimistic concurrency) 22:31:35 It's beyond human ken, I think. 22:32:25 elliott: or maybe like. it queries every single command ever sent in order to count up the karma 22:32:30 and instead of storing karma it stores a chatlog 22:32:35 so it's O(number of messages logged) 22:32:43 * Fiora can't imagine something much worse? XD 22:32:55 it selects random lines from the chatlogs 22:33:09 then stores them in a list 22:33:16 Fiora: i wanted a bot that determined karma by determining all the times anyone's ever mentioned your name and then using some kind of modified spam filter to classify the references as positive or negative 22:33:20 if they have a karma increment in them 22:33:21 and summing them up 22:33:39 (Apparently the current iteration of fungot has, in the last six days, used 16 seconds of CPU time. If I read ps right.) 22:33:40 fizzie: to use the utf8 egg. 22:34:09 Or is that 16 minutes? I don't know what the unit of that column is. 22:34:25 16 minutes seems like an awful lot for fungot 22:34:25 elliott: that was absurdly involved. that's true. 22:35:06 elliott: I remember doing sentiment analysis in AI class; it was amazing how inaccurate it was 22:36:01 I remember the bits about semantics in a NLP class. They were all so crude. 22:36:10 My Little Pony class 22:36:18 New Little Pony. 22:37:00 MLP analysis sounds a lot easier; you could probably identify most ponies by their color scheme. 22:37:21 It's all pony-invariant descriptors and whatnot. 22:40:44 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:41:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:42:18 Huh, SURF features are patented too? I was thinking (i.e., hoping) SIFT was the exception rather than the rule. 22:42:35 Everything is patented. 22:45:01 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:55:15 higgledy-piggledy / bifunctoriality 22:57:38 I don't run any IRC bots but X seems to use about 33 minutes per day here 22:59:57 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:00:43 kmc: good story about the money machine 23:01:57 i thought so 23:02:05 http://www.thoughtcrime.org/stories/money-machine/ 23:09:46 those things seem designed basically just to embarrass the person inside of them :/ 23:15:03 -!- sacje has joined. 23:15:39 yeah 23:16:44 our school had us sell magazines and wrapping paper and whatever, but the funds went specifically towards a class trip 23:16:51 i'm sure the company took a nice cut, though 23:17:32 is this some... americant hing 23:17:37 i have no recollection of anything like this happening to me 23:17:43 it sounds incredibly american at least 23:17:46 most likely yes 23:18:09 i have no such recollection either 23:19:02 We sold toilet paper to fund class trips in grades 1-6. 23:19:28 i assume your prices were not competitive with wal-mart 23:20:04 Counting delivery from the nearest wal-mart, perhaps. 23:20:21 They were reasonably large units. 23:20:33 Like, maybe in bunches of 40 rolls? 23:20:50 So perhaps the pricing was reasonably competitive. 23:21:38 Also there's a magazine full of stories and stuff written by school kids, that I think we also sold. 23:22:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kev%C3%A4tp%C3%B6rri%C3%A4inen 23:22:23 Lovely UTF-8 there. 23:22:54 Anyway, you got some tiny rewards for selling that thing. 23:23:43 We never had a money machine, though. 23:26:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:28:40 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2013-06-18: 00:38:36 So I'm no longer totally convinced that every Turing machine either halts or does not halt. 00:38:44 Maybe Goldbach's conjecture doesn't have a truth value. 00:40:03 well definitely there is a TM where ZFC can't prove it halts or doesn't, unless ZFC is inconsistent 00:40:11 Right. 00:40:24 It seems to me that a Turing machine must either halts or does not halt (maybe I am wrong); I made a sequent calculus of Turing machine so it halts if and only if it is provable, I think (unless I made a mistake). 00:40:28 zfc, more like sucksfc 00:40:50 and likewise for whatever other formal logic you want to use to talk about turing machines 00:40:58 All the cool kids work in linear logic with no axioms. 00:41:00 zfc38 00:41:11 i would use that axiom system 00:41:28 ZFC 98 00:41:29 Different kind of logic are useful for different things. 00:41:35 Suddenly I feel like there's a topology here. 00:43:22 The singleton set {X} is closed if and only if ZFC proves that X halts or that X does not halt. 00:43:52 So is that how it works? 00:44:09 Well, I certainly haven't defined the entire topology yet. 00:44:10 well boolean algebras have Stone spaces 00:44:26 and this relates logic and topology somehow 00:44:38 too bad i know only a little logic and no topology 00:44:49 It is possible to prove that a Turing machine halts if and only if it does halt, but this isn't the case with not halting. 00:45:21 Is there linear logic with no axioms? 00:45:26 You're saying that "for all Turing machines X, X does not halt if and only if X does not halt" is not provable? 00:45:33 I should say "linear logic with no additional axioms". 00:45:43 O, OK. 00:46:08 "In mathematics, Stone's representation theorem for Boolean algebras states that every Boolean algebra is isomorphic to a field of sets." No shit? 00:46:15 tswett: No, I am just saying that it isn't necessarily provable if it doesn't halt. Sometimes it may be. 00:46:23 Oh, that. 00:46:37 tswett, have you seen the pidgeonhole principle? 00:47:12 zzo38: In Potion of Confusing, the message says "All of the objects (except one) are what they seem; there are no secret objects or fake wall or anything like that." 00:47:19 zzo38: Shouldn't that say "fake walls"? 00:47:59 shachaf: I suppose that would work too. 00:48:38 Note that "what they seem" is according to MegaZeux; if you don't know much about MegaZeux then this message probably won't help much. (MegaZeux is open source though, so that might help a bit.) 00:48:48 zzo38: I think "fake wall" is iggrammatical. 00:55:06 I don't intend to fix it right now (although you can fix it if you want to). 00:55:38 'patches welcome' 00:56:31 kmc: I like the thing where someone asks for help with their program and someone suggests a bunch of ways to improve it and they respond with "patches welcome". 00:56:53 Maybe I might fix it later, though. 00:57:02 Such as, when I continue to work on that game and add more levels. 00:57:17 e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1gdh5u/help_tracking_down_a_possible_memory_leak_in/ 00:57:37 heh 00:58:02 kmc: should i give up on the punctuation for "eg, ie, etc", etc. 00:58:02 that's just... that specific person 00:58:04 "you should use DevURandom instead of DevRandom, unless you want to wait a long time for cryptographically secure genetic results" 00:58:07 sigh 00:58:19 really questionable that /dev/random should exist 00:58:57 in typical configurations urandom is *cryptographically* unpredictable 00:59:01 it works differently on different OSs, doesn't it? like I remember reading that BSD's "random" was actually a PRNG seeded by a guaranteed-safe amount of entropy 00:59:02 it's not information-theoretically unpredictable 00:59:13 kmc: where else will i dump my spare entropy hth 01:00:11 kmc: i think i heard that /dev/urandom is even better than /dev/random for cryptography for reasons other than speed 01:00:14 but i didn't understand the reasons 01:00:22 all you need is like 256 bits of entropy at startup and you can generate cryptographically secure random numbers indefinitely 01:00:38 for basically the same reason that you can encrypt arbitrarily long things with AES using a 256 bit key 01:00:42 except that's probably not /really/ true 01:01:18 and i mean 'indefinitely' in a practical sense 01:01:26 can you use aes in ctr mode as a good rng 01:01:34 i should think so 01:01:43 otherwise it's not a v. good stream cipher 01:01:48 right 01:01:49 but i might be missing something 01:01:50 well, would it be slow 01:01:54 right 01:02:05 Linux urandom uses some cryptographic hashing instead 01:02:06 isn't it typically, like N bits of PRNG seed gets you ~2^N bits of output? 01:02:11 well, like, safe output 01:03:13 non-cryptographic PRNGs like Mersenne Twister or MWC256 have a much larger internal state, but I think that's because they need to be fast and can't do much mixing on each output 01:03:28 in fact MT has a more expensive step that happens each n words where n words is also the state size 01:04:22 Is there a reason to use a non-cryptographic PRNG except in special cases? 01:04:29 speeeeeeeeeeeeed 01:04:40 needing a bunch of random numbers quickly isn't that special of a case, to me 01:04:46 does anyone happen to use zsh 01:05:01 but I do think that language builtin RNGs should err on the side of cryptographic strength 01:05:12 By "special" I meant "non-default". 01:05:24 ok then 01:05:28 And my question was really mostly about speed. Are cryptographic PRNGs that much slower? 01:05:39 of course now we have like, RDRAND, soooo 01:05:54 "On a i5-3210M (2.5GHz) Ivybridge (2 cores, 4 threads) I get a peak of ~99.6 million 64 bit rdrands per second with 4 threads which equates to ~6.374 billion bits per second. Not bad at all." wow 01:06:06 Well, I used ARCFOUR in Famicom Hangman, which works fine, even though that is a very slow computer! 01:06:21 I like that Python has random.SystemRandom() which is an object with the same API as the random module itself, and using urandom 01:06:26 but it would be even better if they were swapped 01:06:36 zzo38: did you drop the first several thousand outputs? 01:06:51 I wonder if that will finally get rid of the /dev/random seeding problem. 01:06:56 kmc: It will automatically do that if you don't put the space bar immediately as soon as you turn it on. 01:07:42 ok 01:07:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:53 * kmc makes plans to cheat at Famicom Hangman using RC4 biases 01:08:04 kmc that's illegal 01:08:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:12:50 You could probably do in an emulator since you can step each frame, to make a TAS, I suppose. However, the microphone and the initial contents of RAM are used for additional entropy if available. On the title screen (and after you win and lose), it generates (and discards) at least a thousand random numbers per frame. During the game, it generates and discards one per frame. 01:16:33 shachaf: of course, anything that makes default functionality slower will be bad for marketing your language 01:17:19 even if there's a fast RNG function, microbenchmark writers won't find it, or they'll complain about how unintuitive it is 01:17:39 whereas approximately nobody is microbenchmarking languages on the basis of 'how easy is it to write broken crypto in this language' 01:18:17 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:18:49 i wonder if GHC could support lazy unboxed arrays. keep a bitmap saying whether each element is a thunk or not 01:19:35 Unboxed arrays of machine-word-sized elements? 01:19:40 it would be cool to have a language where String is some kind of awesomely efficient rope structure but still has the lazy char-at-a-time semantics 01:19:42 Sgeo: yeah, I've seen the pigeonhole principle many times. 01:19:48 shachaf: they have to be at least that big, but they could be bigger 01:20:10 Right. 01:20:38 (and of course you can hide that and just pad out things smaller than a machine word) 01:21:15 i wonder if one should put the bits at the beginning of the array, or have cache line sized chunks each with their own bitmap, or what 01:22:36 and if you had an unboxed array of Word32 on a 64-bit machine then you wouldn't need a separate bitmap at all 01:22:57 you could put the Word32 in the upper half of the machine word, and tag the low bit 01:23:42 You could do that with any Word32, not just an array... 01:23:49 kmc: I like how Haskell's "better string structure" is just an array. :( 01:23:52 putting the tags back in the etc. 01:23:58 kmc: speaking of like nonintuitiveness or whatever, I don't know if you're interested or anything but the way rdrand works is kind of interesting 01:24:50 Fiora: I have a vague understanding. it's based on drift between two oscillators, then a conditioner, then an internal PRNG? 01:25:10 they do this to avoid having analog components, which need to be redesigned on each die shrink 01:25:21 I meant, like, the UI? basically like, you use the instruction and then it sets a flag if it succeeded, otherwise you can retry 01:25:25 oh that 01:25:30 yeah interesting 01:25:31 since the bandwidth is limited (100 million calls per second or so?) across cores 01:25:35 i bet people get that wrong too 01:25:41 but yeah, the internals are really really cool 01:25:51 like, a *digital* random noise generator 01:26:09 also I think in a dream last night I wondered whether the amount of entropy in /dev/random would form an exploitable side channel in some circumstances 01:26:31 would there be a way to derive that information externally? 01:26:46 any user program can read /dev/random and see when it blocks 01:26:53 oooh. 01:26:56 which tells you about how much /dev/randoming other processes have been doing 01:27:12 `quote dream 01:27:15 150) catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream \ 233) back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. \ 243) Gregor, yeah, but P 01:27:23 hmmm so like 01:27:41 kmc: Linux has /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail 01:27:45 I wonder if that could be used as a timing attack, because you could use it to know when other processes are asking for entropy 01:27:51 haha nice shachaf 01:27:54 so you could use it to find out when some process is doing some particular thing? 01:27:55 Fiora: hm, yeah that too 01:28:10 but I guess if you're on the same box you could already do like a cache timing attack 01:28:44 shachaf: mine seems to clim up to 190 and then drop to 128 01:28:47 over and over 01:28:52 Yep. 01:28:54 is that because it's feeding some of that entropy into urandom? 01:29:00 I don't know. 01:29:05 It goes down to ~3 when you cat /dev/random 01:29:09 s/you/I/ 01:29:41 My entropy availability goes up to eleven. 01:29:45 it's because observing the entropy makes it less random clearly 01:30:25 The file read_wakeup_threshold contains the number of bits of entropy required for waking up processes that sleep waiting for entropy from /dev/random. The default is 64. The file write_wakeup_threshold con‐ tains the number of bits of entropy below which we wake up processes that do a select(2) or poll(2) for write access to /dev/random. These values can be changed by writing to the files. 01:32:44 The value of entropy_avail could be used as a source of entropy. 01:33:02 ion..........................no........... 01:33:57 shachaf: YOU DON’T SAY? 01:34:41 don't say what 01:36:36 kmc: speaking of keyboards do you think you could make a keylogger based on microphone input of someone typing 01:36:44 (on a laptop) 01:36:51 yes i've heard of that 01:37:15 i mean make a flash game or something that secretly logs your passwords 01:38:29 HTML5 Microphone API 01:38:42 HTML5 Keylogging API 01:39:09 also HTML5 lets you play and record audio but it has no way to isolate audio from different origins in the acoustic surroundings of the computer! 01:41:51 They are full of dumb things 01:42:12 is CoYoneda a design pattern 01:42:56 i should make a book of design patterns which gradually turns into a maths book 01:43:23 I really think the client should be programmed not to send all keys to the webpage. Someone once at FreeGeek once wanted to use a webpage to test the keyboard, and some keys interfere; I suggested instead to use the program included in Linux for this purpose, which result in not interfering with anything! 01:44:45 (It should also report the size of the document area as the screen resolution, instead of the actual screen resolution, and if a script resizes a window to a specific size, to make it larger than that so that the document area will be of the specified size instead.) 01:45:34 zzo38: you should make a twitter account 01:45:53 I don't want to make a Twitter account; I have no need for such a thing. 01:46:01 i should make a book of design patterns which gradually turns into a snake 01:46:18 No one has a *need* for it. 01:46:46 I can just use IRC or whatever. 01:47:00 How can I follow you on IRC? 01:47:23 Use the IRC log file, is one way. 02:12:15 http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/snuznluz.shtml 02:13:12 o.O it's an April Fools joke 02:13:51 https://www.beeminder.com is sort of the same thing. 02:15:21 Laughing while describing your service does not seem like the best idea ever 02:15:43 hi 02:15:48 what if your service is jokeserver 02:31:21 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:43:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:45:41 `slist 02:45:42 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:45:48 Sgeo...............olist........... 02:46:07 shachaf, I can do an `olist but it would be a lie 02:46:07 you're updating the wrong comic 02:46:12 don't lie 03:03:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:08:54 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Changing server). 03:11:36 -!- elliott_ has joined. 03:12:00 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to Guest73516. 03:13:02 -!- Guest73516 has quit (Client Quit). 03:13:36 -!- elliott__ has joined. 03:14:26 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to elliott. 03:20:22 @karma-all 03:20:22 blah 31337 03:20:22 nobody 2000 03:20:22 c/c 499 03:20:22 ( 205 03:20:22 + 147 03:20:24 g 141 03:20:26 libc 56 03:20:28 dmwit 55 03:20:30 shachaf 53 03:20:32 monochrom 52 03:20:34 ##c 48 03:20:36 Notepad 46 03:20:38 Plugin `karma' failed with: <> 03:23:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:32:41 fizzie: the freenode servers list lies about IPv6. :( 03:45:28 shachaf, `erfdate 03:46:42 Sgeo: ? 03:47:03 shachaf, Erfworld updated 03:47:10 And? 03:47:33 It amuses me that another thing updated that isn't the thing you want to see updated 03:47:42 -!- conehead has joined. 03:48:12 Note that I didn't say that I'm amused that the thing you want to update didn't update 03:49:23 Duly noted and recorded in your file for future reference. 03:54:18 your permanent record 03:54:44 kmc: that's going a little far isn't it 03:54:50 i mean it's permanent 04:07:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:09:58 `? indexed monad 04:10:00 Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. \ Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category 04:10:09 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 04:10:19 oerjan: What? 04:10:22 Oh, right. 04:10:40 `run sed -i '2s/$/./' wisdom/indexed\ monad 04:10:44 No output. 04:10:45 `? indexed monad 04:10:47 Indexed monads are just categories enriched over the monoidal category of endofunctors. \ Indexed monads are just monads on an indexed category. 04:10:52 Better. 04:11:00 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 04:11:06 help 04:11:18 http://i.imgur.com/35Qxgty.gif 04:11:21 "considered harmful when preceded by its quotation" considered harmful when preceded by its quotation 04:11:23 is that _really_ supposed to be two different lines. 04:11:37 copumpkin: what. why. 04:11:37 kmc++ 04:11:39 http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aXb0Bd6_460sa.gif 04:11:51 owls! 04:12:08 oerjan: Yes? 04:12:18 oerjan: There are two different meanings for the phrase. How should I do it? 04:12:37 ...i dunno. 04:13:02 why aren't any of the links loading... 04:13:13 because you're still using IE, hth 04:13:33 i think it fails at an earlier point than that hth 04:15:22 :) 04:15:38 is she eating a kitten help 04:16:07 i am 04:18:46 mmm 04:18:47 kittens 04:19:48 the other white meat? 04:21:46 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:24:17 'malicious' is not really the standard <-- i've heard "stupid" is sometimes a good substitute hth 04:35:45 @tell taneb aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa[...] <-- you seem stressed you should relax some hth 04:35:45 Consider it noted. 04:36:01 @messages 04:36:01 You don't have any messages 04:36:06 oh misread 04:36:34 the nicks are just so similar 04:37:17 oerjan: wasn't it "incompetent' hth 04:40:47 shachaf: nope that's a later mangling hth 04:41:11 oerjan: have you ever considered quitting "hth" 04:41:45 oerjan: btw op me hth 04:41:51 oerjan: i agree, op elliott 04:42:01 then kick Phantom_Hoover and crown mnoqy 04:42:36 or wait it's been attributed to napoleon hm 04:43:00 of course he obviously said it in french hth 04:43:47 mnoqy is chaotic right 04:45:33 "Le mot impossible n'est pas français." 04:46:42 `olist 894 04:46:43 olist 894: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 04:49:26 oo 04:52:39 ts 04:55:11 hth 04:58:31 -!- Bike has joined. 05:04:53 Bike: should i sleep 05:06:02 -!- kappabot has joined. 05:06:07 no hth 05:06:49 kappabot: fuck 05:13:41 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: Bike-is-being-unpleasant). 05:17:06 -!- sprocklem has joined. 05:20:53 kmc: what is the difference between lovers and 3-colorings of graphs.................. 05:21:06 baby don't hurt me 05:21:16 drummers have no soul in general hth 05:31:19 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:40:31 wikiquote seems to doubt the napoleon attribution, given that it is from 2003. 05:41:51 i wonder whether in a generation we will be able to distinguish false and true references at all 05:44:04 shachaf: wtf @ question 05:44:38 I hope predicative datives come up 05:44:49 `wtf predicative datives 05:44:51 why predicative datives is like wtf 05:45:43 HackEgo: *Are 05:45:46 *are 05:46:25 no its is 05:47:43 mnoqy: whoa dude are linear transformations like concatenative languages <-- you may be confused by the fact they're both monoids hth 05:48:01 or maybe categories 05:48:11 elliott: *it's 05:48:22 oerjan: *its 05:48:24 its its 05:49:08 i like how a freenode oper accidentally klined the entirety of webchat 05:49:12 by messing up the syntax 05:49:21 :') 05:49:25 and now a billion people are joining #freenode asking why they got klined 05:50:06 awesome 05:50:12 that is beautiful 05:51:03 also #freenode is literally the worst channel 05:51:10 worse than #esoteric ??? 05:51:30 why don't file: pages have a proper history link, i wanted to see if the description has been changed 05:51:56 also the kline messages say it was for "harrassing people" 05:52:01 so ppl are kind of upset about it 05:52:05 *message said 05:52:10 oh i can get to it by pressing edit on the description first 05:52:27 oerjan: hm on esolang? 05:52:53 elliott: no on wikipedia. 05:52:58 oerjan: perhaps the file is on commons 05:53:00 anyway i found it https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Grand_Junction_from_Mass_Ave.JPG&diff=98335089&oldid=76213178 05:53:14 (edited yesterday) 05:53:19 scroll down :P 05:56:25 gah that commons stuff is confusing 05:56:57 something else that irritates me is when people link to commons pictures directly without context 05:59:05 DdEe4Aai? did kmc accidentally switch username and password? 05:59:59 that's me 06:00:11 why would my wikipedia username be related to anything else 06:00:17 it's random 06:00:19 password is random as well 06:01:08 concurrent haskell, multiocular o and methylamine... yeah that's kmc all right. 06:01:26 itt kmc has just scrambled to fix his password away from kmc 06:02:18 haha 06:02:28 you know my interests 06:02:34 they reverted my methylamine edit 06:02:36 bastards 06:02:42 oh 06:02:44 i also tried to create Category:Toroidal foods 06:02:48 deleted 06:02:51 bastards 06:03:19 why would anyone delete that!! 06:04:42 because they hate freedom 06:05:51 No, it is because they hate toriodal foods. 06:06:16 america is about freedom, the freedom to eat foods of any topological genus you like 06:06:22 and to deep fry them as well 06:06:58 kmc: technically "concurrent haskell" + "multiocular o" narrows it down to someone in this channel, and "methylamine" does the rest hth 06:07:41 what foods have genus, say, three 06:07:41 kmc: what about your reddit username 06:07:44 deep fried bagels, check 06:07:47 once upon a time i knew what it was "but i forgot" 06:08:21 i think i'm more obsessed with multiocular o than most 06:08:42 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_(mathematics)#Orientable_surface hth 06:08:45 Bike: well there are braided breads 06:08:53 the holes usually go away in baking I guess 06:09:44 oerjan: ?? those aren't foods! 06:09:53 although technically it's only the surface that is toroidal for bakery 06:11:39 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kringle hth 06:12:01 oh nice 06:12:09 What happened to all of kmc's edits? 06:12:26 I only see two in -- oh, never mind. 06:13:12 shachaf: they were reverted by the CIA, NSA, FBI and RIAA hth 06:13:31 sometimes with edit wars between the organizations 06:14:11 whew someone deleted the popular culture reference of methylamine 06:14:14 wtf do they use a picture of a german pretzel 06:14:19 popular culture sections are the worst thing 06:14:42 popular culture sections in popular culture: not very popular 06:15:06 (→‎Popular culture: methylamine is not capable of being aware - removed the section because it is just trivia anyway) (undo) 06:15:09 wow 06:15:24 i bet that person kills intelligent calcium, too 06:17:28 damn now i'm hungry for a pretzel 06:22:55 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:24:53 I am not the only one who want a three button mouse with no scroll wheel. 06:26:54 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 06:27:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:28:35 zzo38: Last time you asked, I looked it up and it seemed possible to order it online. 06:37:37 oh boy a serial mouse 06:40:20 cereal mouse 06:42:38 hey remember the house with the x in the middle that people used to draw 06:42:57 good house. 06:43:31 gꙬ d house 06:44:15 shachaf: no, also what 06:45:04 ? 06:45:37 i do not remember this house 06:45:38 you draw a house as a square with diagonals with a triangle on top 06:45:52 the game is doing it without drawing a line twice 06:45:56 oh 06:46:14 so you have to start at a vertex of odd degree? 06:46:30 yeah it's babby's first eulerian whatever 06:46:37 did taht shit back in elementary school man 06:46:59 yes 06:47:12 * Bike Math Expert 06:47:14 by people i mean first-graders (i was once among their ranks) 06:47:19 o 06:47:19 / \ 06:47:19 / \ 06:47:19 o---o 06:47:19 |\ /| 06:47:21 | X | 06:47:24 |/ \| 06:47:26 o---o 06:47:29 like that 06:47:31 you never did that??????? 06:47:35 i did it 06:47:37 kmc's deprived 06:47:38 oh 06:47:43 just forgot 06:47:47 how the hell is that so common i wonder 06:48:08 did you ever join the pen 15 club 06:48:10 did you have the game where you press 1 + 1 = = = = = = = ... in a calculator 06:48:17 and see how high you could get 06:48:19 what would that do 06:48:25 add 1 repeatedly 06:48:27 missed out on pen 15 06:48:29 oh it repeats the last action 06:48:30 (or did you just do the second part (drugz joke)) 06:48:35 why not 2 * 2 = = = = = = 06:48:40 much faster 06:48:42 because the point is inefficiency hth 06:48:45 sounds cheap 06:48:45 dnh 06:48:50 why not just type 99999999 06:49:00 why not just type BB(3) 06:49:02 why not just drop out of school and go fuck yourself 06:49:11 is that a drugz joke 06:49:13 no 06:49:15 darn 06:49:17 it's a go fuck yourself joke 06:49:18 OH that reminds me 06:49:20 no that's just kmc 06:49:27 also this was all in hebrew btw hth 06:49:34 at college orientation the coordinator had to clarify by "cigarette" she meant nicotine 06:49:36 not that that matters, except for your club 06:49:44 glorious blazeit future 06:49:47 haha 06:49:49 this is in WA? 06:49:53 yeah 06:49:55 what context 06:50:03 smoking a joint indoors is still a douche move 06:50:04 drugz 06:50:04 depending 06:50:13 just explaining that drugs weren't allowed in this event even if they're legal 06:50:21 haha 06:50:32 you misspelled drugz 06:50:34 we had to clarify that you weren't allowed to give hallucinogens to prefrosh even if they were technically legal 06:50:40 smoking near a building is also a terrible thing to do 06:50:46 if you smoke near a building i can smell it from the inside 06:50:48 it's cool how everybody my age is more used to weed than nicotine 06:50:54 and i will "h8 u 4 ever" 06:51:22 i think pot smoke smells far less offensive than cig smoke 06:51:29 Oh, but I found someone who's even more sensitive to smoking than I am. 06:51:35 (conal) 06:51:37 elliott: my phrase was so boring it wasn't worthy of kool letterz, imo 06:51:47 i used to smoke hookah pretty regularly 06:51:54 conal won't "h8 u 4 ever", though, because he's too nice 06:51:55 i don't even know what weed smells like #deprivedofdrugz 06:52:00 well 06:52:03 pot smoke kind of pisses me off but tobacco smoke gets me to leave so 06:52:04 drugzprived 06:52:04 i'd probably recognise it 06:52:14 thanks to psychic drugz instinct and the internet 06:52:23 the kmcnet 06:52:26 elliott: how to find out what weed smells like: 1) go to san francisco 06:52:29 that's it 06:52:39 kmc tells it like it is 06:53:04 well you could also just download the smell file into your smellotronic of course 06:53:15 -nod- 06:53:21 -!- shachaf has set topic: For the other use | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 06:53:21 kmc: that sounds like literally the most expensive way to find out what weed smells like imaginable 06:53:42 elliott: um, it's p. cheap hth 06:53:43 i think sense of smell doesn't have a small basis set and so smellotronics will never be practical :'( 06:53:47 just take caltrain 06:53:54 caltrain doesn't go to hexham 06:53:56 except on weekends 06:54:07 and on football/baseball game days 06:54:20 so why is it five "a"s 06:54:25 whenever the giants play the hexham hexers 06:54:28 join #cslounge-trains to find out 06:54:36 haha hexham hexers 06:54:52 kmc: imo come to hexham 06:54:56 is that a real team or 'football clubbe' as you say 06:55:06 i wish 06:55:07 does hexham have weed. 06:55:15 elliott: imo come to san francisco 06:55:22 i've heard the UK has mostly awful adulterated 'soapbar hash' 06:55:33 http://www.hexhamfc.com/ 06:55:41 that sounds kind of horrifying. 06:55:47 wow 06:55:55 i clicked-to-play the big flash thing 06:55:56 alt. a new and exciting way to clean oneself + sell hemp products to idiots 06:56:01 and there's another click-to-play flash thing inside it 06:56:06 hahaha 06:56:07 my god 06:56:11 how deep does it go 06:56:45 hexhamfc has 163 facebook likes 06:56:54 if you click on the facebook logo it shows you a bigger picture of the facebook logo 06:57:04 this website is pretty hexham 06:57:13 i wanted to see if taneb ""liked"" it 06:57:55 Mr Ants 06:59:10 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:22 ok what other games did we play in elementary school 07:01:05 in maths class in third grade we had an ""official"" game where you would think of a number and then go up and name predicates that narrowed it down until it was determined uniquely 07:01:16 that was "a fun game"" 07:02:09 maybe i should go back to third grade 07:07:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:14:53 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:23:36 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:27:44 people claiming that Maybe-alikes which don't distinguish Nothing and Just Nothing are monads :'( 07:49:53 -!- nooga_ has joined. 08:32:05 people confusing utf-8 with unicode :'( 08:37:52 shachaf: maybe is usually a functor 08:37:55 kmc: ^ ^ ^ 08:40:49 mnoqy is usually a fungot 08:40:50 shachaf: i think she's already in bed and all. she replies, " what does " advice" do? it would require 09:03:27 -!- irctc283 has joined. 09:03:53 ? 09:04:21 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:04:26 `relcome irctc283 09:04:29 ​irctc283: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:04:30 ciao 09:04:35 !list 09:04:59 "people claiming that Maybe-alikes which don't distinguish Nothing and Just Nothing are monads :'(" 09:05:01 -!- irctc283 has quit (Client Quit). 09:05:02 How do you even make such a thing 09:05:14 not in haskell hth 09:06:18 The only thing I can think of is null values 09:06:22 And I wouldn't call those maybe-alike at all. 09:06:31 Rather, I would call maybes null-like in uses >.< 09:08:41 Wasn't there a Java thing that explicitly called itself a Maybe that did that? 09:46:25 Is there some sequent calculus logic where the turnstile indicates that whatever is on one side is better than that on the other side? 09:48:52 Normally in sequent calculus you have exactly one sequent below the line. What if this rule isn't used? If there is more than one sequent below the line, you still have to use all of them, just as you would for multiple sequents above the line. 10:04:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:08:51 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:47:01 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:12:20 -!- surma has joined. 11:15:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:17:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:17:12 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:18:11 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:18:17 @messages? 11:18:17 Sorry, no messages today. 11:21:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:24:16 Taneb: There was an olist update while you were gone, by the way. 11:26:53 I saw the update 11:27:49 Taneb: Want to be added to `olist? 11:27:57 Wait, olist 11:28:08 There should have been an slist too 11:28:19 who cares about slist hth 11:28:22 `slist the rogue talks to the dog some more 11:28:23 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 11:28:43 Ugh. 11:28:46 Time to fix slist. 11:28:49 `run head -n1 olist 11:28:51 head: cannot open `olist' for reading: No such file or directory 11:28:51 `run head -n1 slist 11:28:53 head: cannot open `slist' for reading: No such file or directory 11:28:54 `run head -n1 bin/olist 11:28:56 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 11:28:57 `run head -n1 bin/slist 11:29:00 echo -n "$(basename "$0"): "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 11:29:28 `run sed -i 's/:/${@:+ }$@:/' bin/slist 11:29:32 No output. 11:29:33 `slist the rogue talks to the dog some more 11:29:35 slist the rogue talks to the dog some more: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 11:29:43 Hmm, should it have parentheses or something? 11:29:50 slist (...): ... 11:30:00 shachaf, I hope to see some progress by the time I return 11:30:05 Well, you can always provide those yourself. 11:30:17 I already solved the problem. hth 11:38:37 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 11:38:42 -!- elliott_ has joined. 11:39:07 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to Guest20320. 11:39:10 -!- Guest20320 has quit (Client Quit). 11:39:17 -!- elliott has joined. 11:42:34 -!- nooga has joined. 11:58:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:58:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:58:31 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:02:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:09:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:10:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:18:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:58:52 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:37:21 okay guys what's up 14:37:26 what's going on in the world? 14:37:41 how great is humanity doing? 14:39:31 could be doing greater, I think 14:42:09 what are your suggestions? 14:42:15 what can I do right now about it? 14:43:00 you can be vaguely dissatisfied with the current state of humanity 14:43:21 you're so pessimist 14:43:26 or pessimistic 14:51:23 so olsner what about you how are you doing? 15:30:56 -!- carado has joined. 15:46:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAuGclbw0c 15:46:37 a video... 15:46:39 from bbc comedy... 15:46:43 blocked by channel 4 15:46:47 on copyright grounds 15:46:54 i don't 15:47:24 it works from here 15:47:49 yeah 15:47:53 this is fucking insane 15:59:50 You know what is more insane 16:00:03 The time of tonight's sunset in Reykjavik 16:04:49 what time 16:05:01 2 past midnight 16:08:01 nice 16:08:10 sunrise only about 3 hours later too 16:09:53 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:12:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:15:05 http://25.media.tumblr.com/d6645df20881164379949e93bc2c08ae/tumblr_mojnlaGspx1rdbszlo1_1280.jpg 16:15:54 Bike, what game is that 16:16:04 crusader kings ii 16:16:05 victoria something wasn't it 16:22:47 The trials and tribulations of living in a metric country: camera tripod mounts use a 1/4 inch UNC thread, but the local hardware stores sell nuts and bolts only in the metric system. 16:31:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:40:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:43:06 "The above reaction occurs explosively with enough force to shatter a Pyrex beaker." 16:43:08 thanks wikipedia 16:43:35 does it go dink or boom? 16:43:41 (caesium + water forming caesium hydroxide) 16:46:34 ugh 16:46:36 caesiu, 16:46:40 *caesium 16:46:42 so overrated 16:48:06 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:48:29 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:49:03 -!- conehead has joined. 17:05:31 -!- brendalis has joined. 17:08:41 hola busco a personas para charlar un rato 17:10:52 oh god 17:10:55 not another spaniard 17:11:09 did this happen frequently? 17:11:16 it happened once before 17:11:29 they started slinging abuse at me in spanish for some reason 17:16:21 holis 17:16:58 are you... argentinian? 17:18:05 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:22:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:28:20 no hay nadien que hable espanol 17:28:50 english, motherfucker, do you speak it? 17:28:56 brendalis, no 17:29:29 el ltimo hombre que hablaba espaol dej tras decir algunas cosas sobre mi madre 17:31:52 Phantom_Hoover: was that google translated or do you actually hablas español? 17:31:53 aprendan a hablar español 17:32:20 lol 17:32:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:32:41 Ya soy fluido en espaol gracias 17:32:48 myname: español, do you habla it? 17:33:07 nein, aber ich spreche deutsch 17:33:15 Phantom_Hoover: you're not utf-8 hth 17:33:22 i know 17:33:30 i don't know how to change xchat's character set 17:33:36 myname: natürlich 17:34:24 let's just make it easy for everyone and ban xchat hth 17:34:32 nooo 17:34:49 tbh i don't get your "hth" stuff everywhere 17:34:53 olsner: ok ban it _unless_ you make utf-8 work properly. 17:34:56 Phantom_Hoover: it's in the settings hth 17:34:59 ctrl+S 17:35:05 freenode -> edit -> char set -> utf-8 17:35:10 (it's per server :')) 17:35:12 (hth) 17:35:19 what 17:35:20 the fuck 17:35:25 hello 17:35:30 hi 17:36:33 myname: fwiw it's the hth singularity hth 17:37:56 someone should make hth into an esolang of some sort 17:38:05 now it makes sense 17:38:22 olsner: like a default answer of java2k? 17:38:32 not sure hth 17:38:34 "2+2" "5, hth" 17:40:50 `run ls bin/*elc*es 17:40:54 ls: cannot access bin/*elc*es: No such file or directory 17:41:06 `run ls wisdom/*elc*es 17:41:08 -!- brendalis has left. 17:41:08 wisdom/welcome.es 17:41:15 darn 17:43:23 `? welcome.es 17:43:25 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 17:43:39 TOO LATE NOW 17:46:45 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:48:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:50:44 -!- atriq has joined. 17:51:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:51:20 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 17:55:05 `run run run run run 17:55:06 bash: run: command not found 17:55:20 do do run run run, do do run run 17:55:35 `run $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0 17:55:36 ​/bin/bash: /bin/bash: cannot execute binary file 17:56:07 `run $0 exec $0 exec $0 exec $0 exec $0 exec $0 exec $0 exec $0 17:56:09 bash: exec: No such file or directory 17:56:18 Hmm, it expects a script 17:56:36 `run echo $0 17:56:37 bash 17:57:07 `run $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 17:57:36 `run $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c $0 -c echo $0 17:57:38 bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ bash-4.1$ 17:57:53 what 17:58:07 bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ bash-4.1$ 17:58:29 Hrm 18:00:06 perhaps you ran out of ptys or something? 18:02:14 Nah 18:02:22 It just did something different 18:04:32 actually, it's probably something to do with HackEgo's sandboxing 18:06:44 `run $0 -c $0 -c yes 18:06:56 ok... 18:07:15 bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ bash-4.1$ 18:22:14 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 18:22:21 -!- nortti has joined. 18:28:36 `run bash -c 'echo hi' 18:28:37 hi 18:29:12 `run bash 18:29:27 wat 18:29:43 bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): Inappropriate ioctl for device \ bash: no job control in this shell \ bash-4.1$ 18:29:49 right 18:30:51 FreeFull: i think the problem is the -c's aren't actually _nested_, but done in parallel, so you are running bash instances with no arguments, which means interactive. 18:31:21 you're going to need some fearsome escaping to get them nested 18:31:23 bash -c "bash -c echo foo"? 18:31:48 *nested deeply 18:58:14 -!- brendalis has joined. 18:58:38 elliott: so have you heard about your younger brother? His name is Oliver. 18:58:42 He was born about a month ago. 18:58:43 HOLA 18:58:44 CHAO 18:58:47 Hi brendalis. 18:59:20 YO SOY BRENDALIS 18:59:22 `? welcome.es 18:59:24 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 18:59:45 NADA 19:00:52 <`^_^v> `? welcome.ru 19:00:54 welcome.ru? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:00:58 NO HAY NADIEN 19:01:30 `? welcome.bf 19:01:32 welcome.bf? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:01:35 :( 19:01:55 myname: i think that might not fit on one irc line hth 19:02:49 :-D 19:07:13 HOLA :) 19:07:41 `? tswett 19:07:44 tswett is livin' it up with the penguins 19:07:52 `quote nephew 19:07:54 173) elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? what Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle. 19:08:12 COMO ESTA:-[ 19:08:17 tswett, have you come to terms with being australian yet 19:08:40 Phantom_Hoover: yep. 19:08:40 brendalis, donde esta la biblioteca 19:08:51 Gudday mate. Drop bears. 19:09:34 '; DROP BEARS -- 19:10:09 tswett, also dingoes 19:10:14 and shrimps on barbies 19:10:24 (also don't australians say 'cunt' a lot) 19:10:40 NO 19:11:08 sorry brendalis-- wait what do you know about australia 19:11:22 Oh right, right. Cunt. 19:11:48 Cunt cunt cunt. Barbie. Drop bears. Dingo. 19:12:11 crikey 19:12:15 you can't forget crikey 19:12:23 Crikey cunt koala. 19:12:28 ew 19:12:28 and 'mate', but i was leaving that one out because it was so obvious 19:13:00 Ahoy, cunt. Yarr. Barbie. 19:13:52 Cambra. Kangaroo. 19:13:55 NO ENTIENDO TU HITIOMA 19:14:09 OK 19:14:10 Bloq mayús: control de crucero para impresionar 19:16:48 brendalis, no es obvio a estas alturas que se trata de un canal de habla Ingls (y finlands) 19:17:08 no 19:17:16 se treta de hablar en español 19:17:55 y para que sepas 19:17:55 y veas que es en español metete 19:18:04 Hola brendalis, ¿cómo estás? 19:18:04 mañana y ya veras 19:18:11 bn y tu 19:18:31 ves que no vas a encontrar a nadie a hablar con usted aqu, sino por google translate 19:18:45 Mm, bien. 19:19:03 Por qu me tienes que socavar Tswett 19:19:11 Hm, cómo se dice "I've been playing Starcraft". 19:19:19 jajajajaja 19:19:21 Qué es "socavar"? 19:19:27 wow 19:19:40 te caiste con los kilos menol 19:19:40 google translate... can't keep track of subjects and objects 19:19:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Yo no comprendo nada). 19:20:14 Phantom_Hoover: me parece correcto. "Por qué me tienes que socavar" = "why do you have to undermine me". 19:20:50 In that case it got confused when I put it back into English to see if it made any sense. 19:21:30 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:22:17 "He estado jugando", eh? Bueno... he estado jugando Starcraft. Trato de entrar en la Silver League. 19:22:37 tswett, why... 19:22:44 why isn't silver league translated into spanish 19:22:53 Bueno, bueno. 19:22:58 Trato de entrar en la liga Silver. 19:23:09 de donde heres 19:23:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:23:52 Soy de los EEUU. Míchigan. 19:23:56 -!- carado has joined. 19:25:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:25:57 OK so 19:26:10 surely somewhere there is a website with dimensions of things 19:26:23 so if you need a quick comparison you can look one up 19:27:33 howbigisthething.com 19:27:34 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:27:55 (note: that does note exist) 19:28:26 oh, does it note? 19:28:43 PUES 19:28:45 A ESTUDIAR 19:29:03 ADIÓS A TODOS my good friends 19:29:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:33:02 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:33:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:36:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:44:38 odos haqui son aburrido yo me voy para chat version 2 19:44:38 -!- brendalis has left. 19:45:19 jag förstår inte 19:47:37 that person randomly messaged me too... 19:47:42 did he PM everyone or something? 19:49:17 no 19:49:19 no he did not 19:49:27 perhaps he thought your nick was spanish 19:49:59 Huh 19:51:36 random people who just joined pming you sure is weird 19:51:46 i never get randomly messaged........is my nick not intriguing enough 19:52:12 it is weird :/ though sometimes I wish it happened a little more often... or well, maybe not the random people who just joined part. 19:59:28 I sometimes get randomly messaged on here 20:00:01 Probably because of ##gaygeeks 20:00:26 shachaf: once, some hebrew speaking guy will message you out of nowhere hth 20:00:48 freenode has lgbt channels? huh, cool 20:00:54 nooodl: oh that happens sometimes 20:01:15 i should make my name more obviously dutch... 20:01:24 Fiora: It has had for quite a long time 20:01:28 njooojdl 20:01:29 i hear half of #haskell is dutch 20:01:34 Although #gaygeeks is more popular than ##gaygeeks 20:01:47 there's... two different ones? 20:01:48 (njiiijdl?) 20:01:58 njiiijdlsch 20:02:08 FreeFull, is #gaygeeks older than the ## rule 20:02:17 I only get randomly PMed when I'm active 20:02:30 most often when I'm telling someone new to #nethack that no, the channel is not about hacking into networks 20:02:39 *pfff* 20:02:43 Phantom_Hoover: #gaygeeks was the original but there was a schism 20:02:43 probably like 30% of the time their response is to ask the same question again, except in a PM to me 20:02:54 ais523: that's happened to me ooonce i think 20:02:54 active in politics? 20:02:56 it's cute 20:03:04 FreeFull, over whether or not you should heed network policies on channel names? 20:03:05 don't you have to be voted for or something 20:03:23 (the joke is: prime ministered) 20:03:31 Phantom_Hoover: No 20:03:33 Phantom_Hoover: if i start a new channel and it doesn't have ## will i die 20:03:42 I do believe it's quite a lot older than the policy 20:03:44 also i watched a bit of yes, prime minister recently so that's probably the reason for the joke 20:03:45 this is my biggest freenode worry 20:03:47 nooodl, no it's like 20:04:07 if you're the 'official' representative of that name you can have # 20:04:10 otherwise ## 20:04:25 fwvo 'official'? 20:04:27 what if the name starts with # 20:04:52 then an official channel is ##hi and an unofficial one is ###hi 20:05:07 what if the name is an infinite sequence of #s 20:05:12 hmm i guess that COULD conflict with like 20:05:16 the unofficial channel for "hi" 20:05:17 then the official and unofficial channels are the same channel 20:05:26 no they're not 20:05:37 the unofficial channel for hi is the official channel for #hi 20:05:54 shachaf is talking to himself hth 20:06:45 thoooooooodl 20:08:46 wow. the dutch word for "propyne" is pronounced "propene" 20:08:53 the dutch word for "propene" is pronounced "propane" 20:09:12 and the dutch word for "propane" is pronounced "pro-pahn" 20:10:49 it's just english that has its vowels wrong 20:15:12 How is the dutch word for "propahn" pronounced? 20:16:10 hmm "propahn" is a fixed point here 20:18:08 > words . repeat $ propahn 20:18:10 Not in scope: `propahn' 20:18:17 > words . repeat $ "propahn" 20:18:18 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' 20:18:18 with actual type... 20:18:22 > unwords . repeat $ "propahn" 20:18:23 "propahn propahn propahn propahn propahn propahn propahn propahn propahn pr... 20:18:45 nooodl, is there anything that would get shifted to 'y' 20:19:33 not really 20:19:38 man, how is "propyne" even pronounced 20:19:47 pro-pin or pro-pine? 20:20:01 pine 20:21:36 it's prpn 20:21:46 porn? 20:21:54 "propaine" would be pronounced "propyne" roughly 20:22:51 (the same way e.g. "cocaine" is pronounced rougly as "ko-kine") 20:23:01 it is? 20:23:04 the stress is on the /i/ part of the diphthong though 20:23:10 i thought it was pronounced co-cain 20:23:12 "ko-kah-EE-nuh" 20:23:22 (dutch) 20:23:41 wait which language are we talking about 20:24:06 english words pronounced as dutch reinterpreted as dutch hth 20:24:41 but of course 20:33:47 -!- brendalis has joined. 20:34:31 HOLA 20:34:34 http://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-13:06.mmap.asc 'Due to insufficient permission checks in the virtual memory system, a tracing process (such as a debugger) may be able to modify portions of the traced process's address space to which the traced process itself does not have write access.' 20:34:48 -!- brendalis has left. 20:35:13 ooooh. that's sneaky 20:35:26 yeah 20:35:45 so basically, Foo opens a file for read, Bar opens a debugger and connects it to Foo, and Bar abuses its debugger access to modify the file. 20:35:50 yep 20:35:56 I'm guessing mmappish? 20:35:59 all of which you can do without special privileges 20:36:04 yeah Foo mmaps the file 20:36:19 so yeah you can write to any file you have permission to read 20:37:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:37:40 that's evil 20:37:54 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:38:53 Linux has a history of dumb bugs too, but I feel like this particular one would have been discovered quickly in Linux 20:39:04 not sure though 20:39:23 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:39:24 ptrace is like an infinite source of privilege escalation bugs 20:39:31 -!- clog has joined. 20:39:49 yeah... I remember seeing it show up a lot 20:39:52 it seems like it'd be super hard to secure 20:39:56 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:39:57 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:40:06 scariest parts of linux: ptrace, backwards compat layers, gpu access, any little-used driver / filesystem / protocol 20:40:12 ok that might be most of linux ;) 20:40:37 burn!! 20:41:02 gpu access is probably scary everywhere >_< 20:41:12 I've heard that amd/nvidia drivers are something like as big as the entire linux kernel source tree 20:41:15 yeah 20:41:33 and the open-source drivers are smaller, but still awful terrible code, plus they're based on an incomplete understanding of the hardware 20:41:33 it's terrifying, it's like, the drivers /just for a single piece of hardware/ are like, bigger than all the other drivers 20:41:42 yeah, I meant like the official ones 20:41:48 hey i have a great idea let's make all of that attack surface accessible to untrusted javascript code 20:41:52 XD 20:41:55 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:42:43 i assume there is also a large amount of code that runs on the card itself 20:43:50 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:43:59 at this point I basically understand a "computer" to be a network of specialized computers communicating over various buses 20:44:10 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:46:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:47:38 http://24.media.tumblr.com/a0ad2807df0a09e378e1adf7d60ebced/tumblr_molqtoCHcF1qh3h8wo1_500.png PRISM comix 20:47:43 oh hey wow python has "cyclic infinite lists" 20:48:02 a = [1, [2, [3, None]]]; a[1][1][1] = a 20:48:23 Bike_, this is the kind of prism comix i can get behind 20:50:30 -!- Bike has joined. 20:50:40 kmc: it still kind of amazes me that like, this "graphics driver" thing converts things like opengl and directx commands, in crazy ultra fast realtime, into a bunch of like, floating point assembly code that gets run on the gpu 20:50:44 nooodl: so uh, the same infinite lists you get in anything with modifiable lists? 20:50:48 and somehow it like, all works, and happens in milliseconds 20:50:48 Phantom_Hoover: was opposed to what 20:51:03 i mean in the general sense 20:51:34 Bike: yup, except they're not actually infinite lists 20:51:46 what's not infinite about it 20:51:48 a contains itself but isn't a sublist of itself 20:51:51 Phantom_Hoover: i don't get it 20:52:15 nooodl: well that's because you're using arrays in that way. 20:52:20 if you define "sublist" appropriately... 20:52:25 you have to use a as a "linked list" kinda thing. there's no way to actually construct [1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, ...] 20:52:53 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:54:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:54:27 fucking hell 20:56:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:57:06 you should use an IRC bouncer thing <.< 20:57:53 or an irc client running on a server thing 20:57:57 that one 20:58:24 isnt that like the same thing? or... 20:58:43 sounds complicated 21:00:05 sort of the same thing 21:00:33 with a bouncer you run a local IRC client that connects to the bouncer 21:00:40 somehow 21:00:52 i think it's simpler to just run irssi on the server and ssh/mosh in 21:00:57 but i haven't tried the bouncer approach 21:01:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:02:08 ah 21:02:15 I've only done the latter thing 21:11:41 -!- clog has joined. 21:12:42 it would be simple if bitlbee hadn't just utterly broken around when my iptables rules disappeared 21:13:16 wtf 21:13:30 myndzi sent me messages and i don't know what they are about 21:13:38 Also check out Minbif. 21:13:48 i think he must be replying to messages i sent a million years ago 21:20:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:24:33 -!- Bike has joined. 21:32:19 You can also do the thing where the irssi on the server *is* the bouncer you connect to. 21:32:56 oh? 21:33:00 There's an irssi module called "proxy" for that. 21:33:09 Though it's been kind of sucky at times; I don't know how it is nowadays. 21:33:13 odd 21:33:36 hm bouncer method seems less secure too, unless you bother tunneling it over ssh 21:33:48 I think it's for people who have a shell account somewhere and irssi there, but also want to use a GUI client when at home. 21:33:53 you may trust the connection from your server to freenode more than random laptop public wifi 21:34:04 Or you do SSL; I think most bouncers support that. 21:34:10 Mine does authentication with client certs. 21:34:13 then you have to juggle certs :( 21:34:16 well ok 21:34:17 quassel supports SSL, it seems? 21:34:22 I'm biased because Mosh ;P 21:34:48 i knew a guy who ran all of his laptop network traffic through OpenVPN in UDP mode 21:34:57 so all of his local clients would roam 21:35:08 it was pretty sweet 21:35:33 I think 99% of my talk through the bouncer these days comes through the irssi running on the same server as the bouncer; I just had this period of trying out a number of clients, and the bouncer made that easier. 21:35:48 (The last percent is that Android IRC client thing.) 21:37:34 client+server+bouncer is kind of an odd architecture... 21:37:58 Sometimes it's client-client + client-server + bouncer + server. 21:38:35 Though maybe people who use clients that involve a separate server component don't do bouncers? 21:39:34 i'm talking to you right now by typing on a keyboard which emulates a 1980s keyboard protocol to talk to an X server which sends those keystrokes over a UNIX socket to another program which emulates a 1970s terminal and sends them on to another program which encrypts them and sends them out in UDP packets to another program emulating a 1970s terminal, running on an OS derived from a hobbyist's recreation of 1980s UNIX, which is actual 21:39:41 ogram inside that terminal then talks to freenode 21:39:57 so, computers are dumb 21:40:03 no they are the best 21:40:22 it is cool how "building on the ruins" it obviously is 21:40:28 yeah 21:40:38 soon Linux and x86 will just be a compatibility layer 21:40:43 especially during boot~ 21:40:47 providing none of the actual services they were designed to 21:41:04 "-- which is actual" "ogram inside --" there seems to be a bit of a discontinuity there. 21:41:20 actually compiled to run as a virtual machine on another OS I don't have access to, and the program inside that terminal then talks to freenode 21:41:29 sorry, i was copy-pasting from a description i gave earlier elsewhere 21:41:35 because damn if I can be bothered to type that all again 21:41:49 it's like that interview question "You type google.com at a browser and hit enter. What happens?" 21:42:06 if i'm ever asked that i swear i'll answer with monadology 21:42:14 i hope so 21:42:27 someone told me that good candidates start with switch debouncing 21:42:43 "Perfect! We've been looking for philosopher to join the DogBook team" 21:42:43 How about the people who start scribbling down the wave function of the enter key? 21:43:03 one of these days i should learn how transistors work 21:43:15 oh i'm taking "design of logic circuits" this semester 21:43:22 That sounds cool 21:43:24 is that remotely electronicy, or more like vhdl 21:43:33 probably the latter i guess 21:43:35 It doesn't sound very electronicy. 21:43:43 But of course you can't trust names. 21:43:47 i hope i can take a good course on circuitry sometime 21:43:53 i think i do have elctrodynamics at some point so that's nice. 21:44:16 i really blew off freshman E&M 21:44:20 sometimes i regret it, a little 21:44:21 We had some obligatory eletronics, but it was mostly just calculating numbers in circuits with op-amps in them. 21:44:28 boo. 21:44:40 i might have to take electrophysiology at some point. now that's something to look forward to 21:44:59 (Some people seem to consider op-amps quite holy.) 21:45:10 "so you know how capacitors work, right? well a cell membrane is like a capacitor. but ALSO like a resistor. Plus it varies across the surface" 21:45:44 transmission lines are also that 21:46:05 you know what's kind of weird? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect 21:46:31 that is weird 21:46:33 You know what's kind of weird? Physics. 21:46:36 i love that kind of thing 21:46:47 it feels so... topological? geometric? 21:46:48 from what i can tell electrophysiology doesn't work with basic electrodynamics very well 21:47:01 since you have like, proteins transporting individual calcium ions 21:47:08 i was at MITERS and they were using braided conductors for some kind of scary high voltage and/or high current project 21:47:11 how do you even get a voltage out of that 21:48:04 actually do you know what the REALLY high current "crush metal objects with magnetic fields" project used for a conductor? copper pipe with coolant flowing through it 21:48:07 kmc: wow transmission lines look hard 21:48:43 hey Bike i heard the hairy ball theorem has applications in cell electrowhatevers 21:49:05 ugh it probably does 21:49:23 why ugh! 21:49:28 hairy ball theorem is best theorem 21:49:30 http://everything2.com/user/iceowl/writeups/No+user+serviceable+parts+inside classic story 21:49:31 because it's just another cool thing i don't understand 21:50:26 i get up to http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/e/c/5ec607907b2588dc038c1ef0168475dc.png and my eyes glaze over 21:50:59 kmc: that's kind of cool to see after i drove past bonneville yesterday. 21:51:15 ? 21:51:19 -!- itsy has joined. 21:51:41 Bike, jesus 21:51:51 (the proof isn't that bad!) 21:52:14 kmc: just, i drove through the columbia gorge, which is full of damns and massive fucking power lines 21:52:31 Phantom_Hoover: wow fuck i just realized that's a fourth derivative ;_; 21:52:35 oh cool 21:52:51 communism is Soviet power plus the electrification of the whole country 21:52:53 it's kind of neat to think that i get most of my power from a historic dam 21:53:03 re electricity, i direct you to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmOfxuI_gXg 21:53:07 even if everyone here hates the administration 21:53:13 i guess that's why there's a hydro plant on the seal of north korea 21:53:19 heh 21:53:31 Phantom_Hoover: whoa ._. 21:53:36 wait 21:53:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqgNrj6oEdc was the one i was looking for 21:54:05 "You can actually help the electric company supply the world. Your electric meter runs backward and you suspect you've just discovered a great way for the university to save money through the totally inefficient, indirect generation of power through diesel generators." lol 21:54:14 the trollybuses in SF say "ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLE" which I thought was kind of bullshit until I realized the electricity comes from the Hetch Hetchy hydroelectric plants 21:54:32 Phantom_Hoover: i'm amazed the cameraperson didn't fucking bolt 21:54:50 there's a diagram of the yangtze 21:54:54 oh yeah those are the best Phantom_Hoover 21:55:04 where it's like an elevation map and it has all the dams drawn on it 21:55:23 Has anyone designed their own tshirt with a program printed on it? I'm just trying to now via several online t-shirt studios... Unfortunately they're all a bit of a pain (not supporting monospace fonts, etc). 21:55:58 i used Zazzle once and uploaded a huge-res png 21:56:01 worked fine 21:56:13 i think they take PDF too but I wanted to do the rasterization myself just in case 21:56:13 i liked it because it made me realise that hydro power is basically just a matter of mass flow and potential difference along the river's course 21:56:56 huh, i wonder if they use that to teach how electrical current works. 21:57:09 yeah, that's the standard analogy 21:57:19 well water yeah 21:57:21 well, gravity is 21:57:22 hydropower though? 21:57:25 it was a shirt that says "Beweis: klar. □" in LaTeX / Computer Modern 21:57:33 i dunno 21:57:49 maybe they do around here. hmmmmm 21:58:03 kmc: I might try that, thanks... 21:58:18 you could definitely do a good demonstration with it 21:58:23 yeah 21:58:26 also, awesome field trip 21:59:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-UTYzfNjKM 21:59:56 it's weird how "Computer Architecture" and "Electromagnetic Fields and Waves" are both EE... 22:00:12 at MIT they put EE and CS in the same major even 22:00:24 although you can declare like a concentration within Course VI 22:00:41 really, i thought they'd split them up by now. 22:00:50 kmc: The Helsinki metro advertises itself visibly as zero-emission in the regional-public-transit-route-finder guilt-trip emissions-for-different-modes-of-transit tables produced along the routes; that's because the electricity comes from "Finnish hydropower". (They don't give more details on that.) 22:00:50 kmc: also: i'm never going to look at substations the same way again ;_; 22:00:58 "that was cool" 22:01:26 Also I think the trams too. 22:01:54 (Oh, there's the details. "When you travel by tram or metro in Helsinki, you are using electricity produced by Finnish hydropower supplied by Helsingin Energia. -- HKL purchases the electricity needed for the tram and metro services from Helsingin Energia as certified hydropower, which means that the electricity is certified to have been produced by hydropower. Helsingin Energia produces ... 22:02:00 ... electricity by hydropower at the Mankala, Ahvenkoski, Klåsarö and Ediskoski hydropower plants located by the River Kymijoki as well as at the Kemijoki power plant.") 22:02:18 oh nice, there's an undergrad course covering ASIC 22:02:26 and FPGAs 22:02:41 Bike: did you see there's a Coursera course on how to write your own VLSI design/layout tools? 22:02:44 sounds insanely hardcore 22:02:53 jesus 22:03:17 why the hell is "Introduction to Computer Networks" (covering protocol layers, etc) in EE... 22:03:33 oh it's crosslisted. 22:03:40 * Bike excited for school, sorry 22:03:44 i was wondering the other day if say Intel uses standard tools to design their processors 22:03:44 Bike: Because there are ELECTRONS in the COPPER. 22:04:01 or if they have their own in-house stuff that's more capable than anything on the market 22:04:03 "really, why isn't everything in the physics department" 22:04:26 oh, the other thing about the gorge is that there are a ton of wind turbines 22:04:26 Except real maths, presumably. 22:04:26 we had a lot of CS/EE and CS/Ma cross listing 22:04:44 i don't know what they're powering, because nobody lives out there, but whatever 22:04:50 and some CS/Ph and maybe CS/APh (physics, applied physics) 22:05:09 i'm amused that Ph 125 was quantum and Ch 125 was quantum for chemists and Pl 125 was philosophy of quantum 22:05:16 lol 22:05:25 relativistic quantum chemistry is p. terrifying 22:05:40 There were quite a few wind turbines up in the Alps in Switzerland. (I guess it's windy?) 22:05:40 starting with the name 22:05:44 also somebody pointed out that quantum field theory and general relativity classes were scheduled at the same time 22:05:47 so they conflicted 22:05:48 relativistic quantum chemistry is amazing 22:05:56 it's p. great 22:06:03 i'm glad quantum effects aren't really relevant to neuro because god 22:06:15 like "gold is shiny and yellow because of contraction caused by relativistic electron motion" askdjfls 22:06:32 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:06:55 the GR textbook is a massive (heh) black book that says "GRAVITATION" on the cover 22:07:04 http://www.amazon.com/Gravitation-Physics-Series-Charles-Misner/dp/0716703440 22:07:17 whereas the advanced number theory text is a slim yellow volume titled "Introduction to Arithmetic" 22:07:40 physicists have the best PR 22:08:26 i still haven't visited my university library and every time i remember that it troubles me 22:08:36 why would you not 22:08:41 those things are the best 22:08:45 ==Bike 22:08:50 i've... not needed any books i guess 22:09:08 i tended to buy the textbooks that looked cool rather than the ones for the courses i was taking 22:09:12 Bike is like the master of devouring university libraries 22:09:14 he's pretty amazing 22:09:45 needed?? 22:10:00 i literally bought a book by kolmogorov, during orientation, on a subject i'll never use in my life 22:10:13 (because "wow, kolmogorov". i'm shallow) 22:10:30 "Explore applications, including pulsars and neutron stars, cosmology, the Schwarzschild geometry and gravitational collapse, and gravitational waves" yeah those are good applications 22:10:43 Build Your Own Neutron Star In 21 Days 22:11:04 collapse the false vaccum in your spare time using household materials 22:11:22 learn how to overcome the schwarzchild limit with this one weird old trick 22:11:22 Discover the Astounding Properties of Nuclear Matter! 22:11:27 ..... XD 22:11:42 haha 22:11:44 ... oh gosh that reminds me of this thing 22:11:44 http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com/ 22:11:51 yeah that's the best 22:11:59 it was made by some people the csloungers know 22:12:01 for SIGBOVIK 22:12:27 "The possibility that we are living in a false vacuum has never been a cheering one to contemplate. Vacuum decay is the ultimate ecological catastrophe; in the new vacuum there are new constants of nature; after vacuum decay, not only is life as we know it impossible, so is chemistry as we know it. 22:12:32 However, one could always draw stoic comfort from the possibility that perhaps in the course of time the new vacuum would sustain, if not life as we know it, at least some structures capable of knowing joy. This possibility has now been eliminated." 22:12:49 snort 22:12:54 i read a sci-fi novel about that once 22:12:56 "What is Kim's secret to keeping off the pounds while pregnant?? The blogs say Kim eats corn one kernel at a time. But we're talking of another kind of weird kernel trick!! " 22:12:58 guess it needs to be updated! 22:13:10 wasn't there like, some sci-fi novel where um... they were like, on a spaceship fleeing a vacuum collapse-esque thing? 22:13:19 Bike: which novel 22:13:21 yeah, that's the one 22:13:24 schild's ladder 22:13:29 Fiora, is it going to turn out that Kim stays slim while pregnant by contributing to Linux? 22:13:32 by egan, so, weird 22:13:37 wrong sense of "kernel" taneb 22:13:38 and another where the far future denizens of the heat death universe sent messeners back in time to cause a vacuum collapse to spawn new universes rather than forever inhabit a dead one 22:13:42 good guess though! 22:14:01 (that's um... gah. what was it...) 22:14:22 huh, optics for EE is 500-level... 22:14:35 "524 Advanced Computer Architecture 3 Instruction set architectures, pipelining and super pipelining, instruction level parallelism, superscalar and VLIW processors, cache memory, thread-level parallelism and VLSI." seriously how is that EE 22:14:40 what year are you Bike 22:14:46 oh the book i was thinking of was _Time_ by Stephen Baxter 22:14:49 it's not Darwin's Radio... 22:14:51 junior by credits 22:14:52 Oh! That might have been it 22:14:54 Such an event would be one possible doomsday event. It was used as a plot device in a science-fiction story in 1988 by Geoffrey A. Landis,[16] in 2000 by Stephen Baxter,[17] and in 2002 by Greg Egan.[18] 22:14:58 i mean i'll never be taking these things, but still 22:15:02 fun to look at 22:15:08 I once read a sci fi book where they had a space ship powered by American "chedder" that someone had put in a particle accelerator for a laugh 22:15:12 Manifold: Time? 22:15:22 I remember that book! 22:15:24 Except the space ship was just a Boeing 747 22:15:35 I think I read _Time_ and _Space_. 22:16:07 the Xeelee books were really cool 22:16:09 the coolest class i could probably take is biomechanics: "Methods for analysis of rigid body and deformable mechanics; application to biological tissue, especially bone, cartilage, ligaments, tendon and muscle. " 22:16:13 especially the civilization on a neutral star one *_* 22:16:16 *neutron star 22:16:17 for the Unreal Tournament factor 22:16:33 Fiora, didn't dragon's egg already do that 22:16:34 I don't think I read anything else by him. 22:16:36 Should I? 22:17:11 ummm... I don't know 22:17:12 it's ok if there's more than one book about neutron star civilizations, imo 22:17:35 shachaf: it tends to be like... totally crazy idea-filled books that are heavy on the silly sci-fi speculation and kind of light on the characters and stuff 22:17:45 so um, if you like that kind of thing it can be fun 22:17:48 Fiora: Sounds right. 22:17:48 hard sci-fi as it were 22:17:50 Vacuum Diagrams was really cool though 22:18:00 do i get ostracized for liking soft sci-fi more 22:18:01 shachaf, no read banks you fuck 22:18:02 i love sci-fi 22:18:05 it is so easy 22:18:06 I loved the short stories in that one, I think his ideas kind of work better as short stories than longer ones 22:18:22 Phantom_Hoover: huh? who's banks...... 22:18:24 my favorite ever was one the one where members of the resistance end up being caught by the Qax and are fleeing the solar system on a starship 22:18:28 but a missile ends up going after them 22:18:29 Fiora, tell shachaf to read banks, leverage democracy 22:18:36 and the missile reconfigures itself over time to accelerate faster and faster 22:18:44 Bike, my sci-fi is softer than your sci-fi 22:18:55 and so they have to make more and more sacrifices, eventually brain-uploading when the missile accelerates to like 1000Gs 22:18:56 oh yeah well my sci-fi is so soft it's actually victorian romance!!! 22:19:14 and they finally deal with the missile by passing by a rotating black hole, stealing energy from it in the process, catching the missile in the ergosphere 22:19:20 Fiora, *jolts to like 1000gs 22:19:23 .... only to find they're now going so fast they can't ever slow down 22:19:25 Well, mine's a cold war era spy novel! 22:19:33 oh, laundry? 22:19:33 and it's been 10 million years in an unmoving reference frames 22:19:34 the hardest sci-fi is arxiv papers 22:19:34 *frame 22:19:40 lol. 22:19:41 there's a paper on arxiv about how to build a self-replicating intergalactic exploration probe 22:19:43 kmc++ 22:20:00 another paper about what to do to save earth when the sun blows up in 5 billion years or so 22:20:08 it does require a fair amount of advance planning 22:20:09 kmc: gosh that "neutron stars might actually be GUT-powered proton combustion chambers" was the best thing 22:20:14 Fiora: what 22:20:15 wat 22:20:21 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009arXiv0912.0520D 22:20:22 wt 22:20:24 electroweak stars 22:20:30 here's the "how to save the earth" paper http://arxiv.org/abs/0811.4052 22:20:35 like really that paper is so cool 22:20:42 Anyway, Space scares me. Msg me when you have it sorted out 22:20:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:20:52 K 22:21:02 basically its that at the core of a neutron star density could get so high it'd be like, 2 earths in the volume of an apple 22:21:12 and the energy'd be so high that it'd hit electroweak unification levels 22:21:19 "The source of energy in the core that can at least temporarily balance gravity are standard-model non-perturbative baryon number (B) and lepton number (L) violating processes that allow the chemical potential of B+L to relax to zero" help 22:21:20 and that'd allow proton burning 22:21:31 kmc: "gigayears" 22:21:39 proton burning... 22:21:43 Saying that, being in the front of fast cars scares me 22:21:44 what do you get when you burn a proton 22:21:45 which would provide a completely insane amount of energy 22:21:51 I'm easily scared 22:21:52 annihilation basically I think? 22:21:52 ArtSun, omg 22:21:56 so like, conversion to pure energy 22:22:01 oh 22:22:04 this really is sci-fi, nothing but sci-fi has such shitty names 22:22:04 kmc, an oxidated proton, of course 22:22:16 neutrinos + gamma rays or I guess I don't remember what it generates >_< 22:22:40 but because it's at the dead center, the redshift is so huge and neutrino capture is so huge that like, most of the energy won't really escape 22:22:59 hm, what department's classes should i check next... 22:23:16 Hmm 22:23:27 then there was like the um. oh right. the one about how if antiparticles repel matter (unlikely but not ruled out), black holes should serve as massive antineutrino guns 22:23:28 Fiora: should i read banks y/n 22:23:31 i like the part where they propose to adjust the earth's orbit by flinging asteroids past us repeatedly 22:23:32 "Gods, Spirits, Witchcraft and Possession" is a good course title 22:23:33 I'm gonna go on a ramble to highlight how much I suck at physics 22:23:39 banks is super cool! I started with Look to Windward 22:23:39 ready, taneb 22:23:46 Fiora: that is just the weirdest idea, the antigravity thing 22:23:50 "Although the `swing-by'- idea is an elegant method it will have some inherent problems which must be mentioned, for instance, such as the problem of a collision of the `swing-by' asteroid with Earth." 22:23:54 Well, burning is sort of adding oxygen 22:24:04 So, if you burn a proton, you add oxygen 22:24:06 kmc: gonna need to remember that next time i see "elegant" in programming. 22:24:11 I think burning here is a metahpor... xD 22:24:18 one problem with these million near schemes is that civilization will probably collapse in the meantime 22:24:18 Which would get you Fluorine 22:24:22 million year* 22:24:30 kmc: see, that's why we need soft sci-fi!! 22:24:35 The most common isotope of Oxygen has 16 neutrons 22:24:39 soft scifi is cool too! I like soft scifi 22:24:40 F-16 is unstable 22:24:57 civilizational changes in the long term are often sadly neglected 22:25:03 what about victorian romance 22:25:10 vinge was ok at it, weirdly 22:25:23 it decays into O-15 22:25:25 in the future we don't have programmers, everything has software already so we just have archaelogists reverse engineering everything 22:25:32 ;_; 22:25:40 hey y'all should i read _The Mote in God's Eye_ y/n 22:25:41 that is pretty close to true already 22:25:45 yeah 22:25:58 Now, O-15 is also unstable, and it decays into N-15 22:26:00 yeeeesss the motie books are fun 22:26:11 y/n 22:26:12 N-15 is stable 22:26:13 but that's the sort of thing i wonder about 22:26:26 since in terms of millions of years, i mean, humans have only had civilization for a few thousand 22:26:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:26:48 who knows what happens next. maybe disco could come back into fashion. anything's possible 22:26:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest96863. 22:27:02 So, burning protons gives you Nitrogen 22:27:12 And a proton 22:27:12 -!- Guest96863 has quit (Changing host). 22:27:12 -!- Guest96863 has joined. 22:27:20 " folk concepts of sexual anatomy in traditional cultures in Western science" ooh la la 22:27:28 -!- Guest96863 has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 22:27:54 kmc: but like yeah if I didn't actually post it here before 22:27:58 the electroweak star thing is cooool 22:28:00 Okay, how much did I suck at physics 22:28:16 Taneb, i thought you were good at physics 22:28:35 Phantom_Hoover, I'm better at physics than I am at, eg, Chemistry 22:28:46 -!- sacje has joined. 22:29:07 But when I have a physics problem I have a list of people to defer it to 22:29:15 I think you are pretty high up on the list 22:30:32 Anyway, I am off to bed now 22:30:34 Goodnight! 22:30:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:55 nathan van doom 22:31:08 i wonder if western civilization will collapse and wikipedia will be like Natural History. or maybe it won't collapse, it'll just change gradually into something very different 22:31:18 i guess that's what "collapse" is anyway 22:31:29 we'll upload our brains into a 24/7 cyber orgy 22:31:40 which will last until the power runs out or the computers break for some dumb reason 22:31:45 hmm 22:31:46 then that will be the end of humankind 22:31:52 been readin too much sci-fi 22:31:56 on the one hand, system shock 2 is only 5 and i am bored 22:32:04 have you not played it? 22:32:12 though that reminds me i should read uh 22:32:14 on the other hand, i don't think i have the nervous fortitude to play system shock 2 22:32:15 Phantom_Hoover: imo read non-banks 22:32:32 that one neuroscientist who proposed wireheading and mind control for society 22:33:27 Phantom_Hoover: you could read, uh, the short stories book kmc was reading 22:33:31 kmc: did you finish it 22:33:37 not yet 22:34:06 "Anthropology of Epidemic Disease and Bioterrorism" now that sounds fun 22:34:15 maybe i could go sit in... 22:34:53 "Anthropology of Life and Death" is one for the album names list 22:36:23 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog 22:36:28 last chance for the $20 thing 22:37:19 assuming it gets funded........ 22:37:45 the $5 reward is... a desktop image 22:40:04 kmc: there are actually several algorithms for it, but obviously people don't just blab about it 22:40:15 oh wait, i'm thinking of the discreet logarithm problem 22:40:15 for what 22:40:24 oh 22:40:35 the discreet logarithm problem sounds fun 22:40:45 go out to a strip club, do some logs on the fly 22:41:00 Bike: What's discreet, the logarithm or the problem? 22:41:12 i don't know you said it 22:41:36 yes so you get to turn it from nonsense into something meaningful 22:41:49 this is re https://twitter.com/pbarreto/status/347115211259514880 new algorithm for discrete logarithm problem 22:41:58 huh 22:42:02 oh nice. 22:42:02 you lucky human-powered, pedal-driven, single-track vehicle, you 22:42:20 ok well the logarithms being discreet is too obvious since that's like the whole point of crypto anyway 22:42:23 i like how you never hear about discrete logarithm-based cryptography because it's so much harder to describe than primes 22:42:25 so i guess it must be the problem itself 22:42:46 Isn't diffie-hellman discrete log? 22:42:51 yes 22:42:59 DH is so easy to describe 22:43:04 sorry, i mean in like popular cryptographic texts 22:43:04 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Diffie-Hellman_Key_Exchange.svg I always found that bit easier to understand thatn like, RSA <.< 22:43:09 by which i mean the code book 22:43:09 *than like 22:43:26 does this mean DH is broken? @_@ 22:43:42 wait, the ffrench for "abstract" is "resumé"? 22:43:50 blowing my mind here 22:43:56 doesn't it mean like "summary" 22:44:01 are you using stupid irc encoding Bike 22:44:04 yeah now that i think about it it must 22:44:08 Phantom_Hoover: um i don't think so 22:44:11 is this what it's been for everyone else when i said unicode characters 22:44:13 er 22:44:19 ŕéśúḿé 22:44:21 you know what i mean 22:44:22 and "curriculum vitae" means like "life curriculum"? guessing 22:44:25 h́t́h́ 22:44:41 kmc: probably "curriculum" means something else 22:44:48 'curriculum' is something to do with deeds 22:44:55 Fiora: only for small characteristic fields, and i don't know if DH does that 22:44:55 so i guess it's your life's deeds? 22:45:14 so like, their complexity argument fails for larger fields (?) 22:45:32 Fiora that diagram is so confusing 22:45:39 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:45:51 Fiora: i think it's exponentially slower the higher the characteristic 22:46:12 oh wait it makes sense now 22:46:22 `WeLcOmE mnoqy 22:46:25 MnOqY: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 22:46:33 hi 22:46:39 no i asked for WeLcOmE not for wElCoMe 22:46:44 get it right HackEgo........... 22:47:07 Phantom_Hoover: it's basically like. alice and bob agree on a paint. they each add their secret colors to the paint, and trade the mixtures. then they add their secret color to the mixture they just got. now they both have the same paint again 22:47:20 i know, i read the article 22:47:23 the weird thing is, it's possible to unmix paint. 22:47:25 words are underrated 22:47:25 imo fucked up 22:47:26 this is one of those analogies that works as long as you forget everything you know about paint 22:47:32 XD 22:47:43 paint, more like pain't 22:47:47 Bike: chromatography for the win 22:47:50 Bike, how do you unmix paint 22:48:00 mix it backwards duh 22:48:02 oh, chromatography (but that's not really unmixing!) 22:48:28 no, it's not chromatography 22:48:29 i remember chromatographying some inks and paints as a kid 22:48:33 olsner's actually got it, let me find a video 22:48:34 with just like some paper 22:49:17 is that the thing you do with um... like, water climbing up the strips or whatever? 22:49:26 Bike: if it's the video I'm thinking of, that's not paint they're mixing (and they don't mix it like paint is mixed either) 22:49:39 Fiora, yes but s/water/solvent/ 22:49:56 * Bike greps logs. "Mexican people don't eat sugar, especially when it's a mixture of lice and tiger DNA" 22:50:17 it started off racist and then went weird 22:50:27 fungot: do you eat lice and tiger DNA? 22:50:27 olsner: oh good, i'm quite sure that's what you get when you fnord... 22:50:45 yeah, it is. 22:51:52 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:52:00 Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Whom_God_Should_Not_Have_Created:_Persians,_Jews,_and_Flies came up in the same log 22:52:26 Aha, found the video! 22:52:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3YZ5veN_Bg 22:52:40 "steve spangler science" 22:52:47 this is almost... informercially 22:53:22 but they're only selling science (probably, i don't watch this show) 22:54:23 agree with olsner also 22:55:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:57:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:58:56 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:59:29 if they say it's "never been done on tv" you can be pretty sure it's stupid 22:59:39 it's legit 23:00:02 it's legit in a seedy way 23:00:15 meanwhile: i attempt to find an IPA for 'vajradhara', fail miserably 23:01:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:01:43 perhaps it's considered too obvious 23:03:31 the problem with ipa'ing is the vowel sounds 23:03:45 you know where you are with consonants but the vowels are so fiddly 23:03:51 and really, who even gives a shit about them 23:04:14 fuckers with their alphabets 23:04:16 abjads for all 23:04:24 abadabadoo 23:07:49 i think half the things i use my email for is password resets. i'm the least secure person ever 23:08:12 the true single sign-on solution 23:08:49 that's pretty much how i use it ;_; 23:10:32 i do that but also i use the same three passwords for everything 23:10:37 double insecurity 23:11:31 three > one 23:12:18 i think i'd probably be better off if my passwords could all be quotes from books or something 23:12:23 easier to remember than muscle memory 23:14:37 yeah it kind of seems like that'd be more convenient and about as secure as littering numbers around the place 23:15:37 it seems more likely that people will lose passwords to phishing than dictionary attacks anyway 23:16:30 whatever, i'm not a security guy, can i just hire an intern to remember things for me 23:20:27 huh 23:20:41 i still have the three whom god etc. article open in a tab 23:21:09 i like how they bother making distinct racial charictures 23:21:29 so, other question, why are they called "discrete logarithm" and "modular exponentiation" 23:21:40 instead of both calling them modular (or both discrete, i guess) 23:22:39 i note that regular logs still work in modular arithmetic 23:23:26 er, they do? 23:23:34 sure 23:23:46 do you mean thea algorithms or 23:23:49 with appropriate extensions to everything 23:24:02 -!- itsy has left. 23:24:58 oh man school has an intro to xenobiology, though they don't call it that 23:25:21 er, was it called "xenobiology" or "astrobiology", i forget 23:34:10 you can study astrobiology in turku 23:34:17 Phantom_Hoover: i'm confused by what you mean though, like, modular exponentiation and exponentiation admit the same algorithms 23:35:16 http://www.nordicastrobiology.net/Turku.shtml 23:35:36 i mean normal log for normal bases 23:36:01 oh forget it it was a confused point to begin with 23:36:09 ok, sorry 23:38:36 Bike: maybe it is because modular exponentiation is just exponentiation modulo p, while discrete logarithm has nothing (presumably) to do with the logarithm of the corresponding real number 23:39:05 but i agree with you, the terms should mirror each other 23:41:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:45:02 http://vanilla-js.com/ 23:47:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:48:25 -!- Bike has joined. 23:48:38 heh 23:49:37 huh, gunpoint made some large amount of money 23:49:42 that's pretty cool 23:50:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/duplicates/1gkw2j/vanilla_js_is_a_fast_lightweight_crossplatform/ 23:50:33 you know what else is p. cool? 23:50:40 `smlist 405 23:50:42 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 23:51:12 `run sed -i 's/:/${@:+ }$@:/' bin/smlist 23:51:16 No output. 23:51:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:58:13 programmer. humor. 23:58:23 how often do they have an argument about whether it should be ProgrammerHumour instead 23:58:52 ProgrammeurHumeraux 23:59:21 programmer humer....sounds bad 23:59:47 i hope Programmer Humour is about the humour theory of personality 23:59:56 me too 2013-06-19: 00:00:12 it's like MBTI except basically t he same as MBTI 00:00:18 http://www.dejavu.org/1995win.htm 00:01:21 but I like being an INFP 00:01:24 Sgeo: that's the same theme as adequacy.org. makes u think 00:01:34 Fiora: well i like being melancholic!!!!! 00:01:49 myers.briggs-- 00:01:50 are you trying to be 00:01:55 humorous 00:02:07 help 00:02:18 :3 00:03:05 :³ 00:03:08 help 00:03:12 what does ":3" even mean 00:03:22 * ion helps. hth 00:03:34 in my mind it's like a cute innocent "what did i do" cat face 00:03:38 i might be using it wrong 00:03:49 it's a lot of things 00:03:50 that's how i see it 00:03:53 thx fiora 00:04:06 Thanks, Fiora. Theora. 00:04:13 `thanks fiora 00:04:15 Thanks, fiora. Thiora. 00:04:18 oh theora is that codec 00:04:20 yes 00:04:21 * Bike Gets the Joke 00:04:24 Ogg Fiora 00:04:27 Thanks, Fiora. H.264. 00:04:43 Nanny Ogg Fiora???? 00:05:08 why is everyone saying thanks? @_@ 00:05:18 Have you seen Look Around You? 00:05:19 kmc: no that's about right. I think 00:05:20 because it's thanksgiving 00:05:24 Fiora: You need to see Look Around You. 00:05:25 somewhere in the world 00:05:40 every day is thanksgiving in #esoteric 00:05:48 Bike: oh geez. that thanks thing just reminded me of this :/ 00:05:49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDajqW561KM 00:05:58 Thanks, giving. Thiving. 00:06:11 Fiora: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x68y4g_look-around-you-module-2-water_fun hth 00:06:21 I saw the calcium one 00:06:34 the water one has the genesis of thanks in it 00:07:01 thenesis 00:07:14 Fiora: congratulations? 00:07:30 nooooo I'm not shinji 00:07:39 so is that why everyone hates evangelion then 00:07:52 ew is that dubbed in english 00:07:54 Bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KH2gc11XQU 00:07:56 yeah, evangelion would be way improved by making Fiora the protagonist 00:08:30 lots of things would be improved by making Fiora the protagonist 00:08:42 mnoqy: good, good 00:08:49 like Macbeth 00:09:04 mnoqy: did you see the super mega update btw,,,, there was a super mega update 00:09:09 shachaf: yes i saw 00:09:19 did you see it before or after i `smlisted 00:09:27 yes 00:09:39 I don't think I'd do a good job in a shakespearean tragedy <_> 00:09:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:09:49 shaxpear 00:10:19 do you think someone's made a parody of shakespeare with shaquille o'neill 00:10:25 mnoqy: the QUESTION is if you saw it before i `smlisted why didn't you tell me................... 00:10:40 Fiora: well if you were the protagonist it wouldn't be a tragedy hth 00:11:22 wait am i mixing macbeth up with another play 00:11:40 help 00:11:40 maybe 00:11:43 how would we know 00:11:51 also, hot potato pop is scotch, puck will make amends 00:11:53 macbeth is the one where macbeth kills everyone and then dies 00:12:02 spoiler alert 00:12:16 i hear macbeth is the one with macbeth in it 00:12:23 it's the one in scotland 00:12:23 The One Where Macbeth Kills Everyone 00:12:24 "mafipulation" 00:12:24 that's like 80% of his tragedies anyway let's be real 00:12:28 isn't macbeth in all of them 00:12:42 i should read titus andronicus 00:12:49 sinc it's gorier than a tarantino film apparently 00:13:22 also i think macbeth was partly written as propaganda or something 00:13:25 but do the characters stand around talking about fast food when they aren't murderkilling 00:13:42 the worst kind of killing 00:14:05 kmc: well they have monologues 00:14:12 also have you seen http://www.runleiarun.com/lebowski/ 00:14:15 they have puns 00:14:26 monologue and epilogue 00:14:32 yeah. now if only shakespeare had a foot fetish 00:14:36 THE JOKE IS MONOMORPHISM AND EPIMORPHISM HTH 00:14:44 kmc: awesome 00:15:01 shachaf: I've actually played um. about two games where the protagonist is vaguely fiora-like? or at least kind of felt that way 00:15:06 i came so close to googling shakespeare fetish 00:15:14 didn't he have a thing for older women though 00:15:29 Fiora: Or maybe you became those-games'-protagonists-like 00:15:39 seems likely. 00:15:39 fioroid 00:15:53 Phantom_Hoover: i know jack shit about shakespeare's performance. someone call an english major 00:16:08 Fiora: anyway lots of games are all about identifying with the protagonists and wish fulfillment and "all that jazz" 00:16:20 what would an english major be doing on freenode 00:16:35 well, they were games with like, well-defined characters 00:16:36 being driven out by horrible nerds, imo 00:16:38 as opposed to blankslateish ones 00:16:40 Fiora: so what were the games 00:16:47 were they 00:16:49 Bike: atelier ayesha and atelier totori, surppriiiseee 00:16:49 japanese 00:17:05 shocking 00:17:13 Fiora, why are they both named after the french for workshop 00:17:14 I only spent like literally weeks fangirling or something 00:17:24 Phantom_Hoover: they're about alchemists. 00:17:27 atelier is a series where you play as an alchemist 00:17:29 also "atelier" is used in english sometimes!!! 00:17:53 i could identify really identify with pac-man 00:18:00 a lot of character depth there imo hth 00:18:17 the only characcters i identify with are terrible people 00:18:18 s/identify // 00:18:22 maybe is hould play games with princesses 00:18:33 play atelier meruru! the protagonist is a princess 00:18:43 truly pacman is representative of the human condition 00:19:01 i never know if i'm identifying with characters or broad stereotypes 00:19:02 "If Pac-Man had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." 00:19:08 the traumatic personal influence of sheldon 00:19:35 I might be clinging to "characters who are vaguely similar" since I have so few options anyways :/ 00:19:39 oh! at orientation i saw a guy with a "Bazinga!" t-shirt. 00:19:40 fyi 00:19:47 also do you know the reason it was renamed from "Puck-Man" for US release was because they realized every machine would immediately be vandalized to say "Fuck-Man" 00:20:03 oh, was he named after pück 00:21:02 "If [[Pac-Man]] had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in [[rave|dark rooms]], munching [[MDMA|pills]] and listening to [[Electronic dance music|repetitive electronic music]]." 00:21:14 i enjoy Wikipedia's "explain the joke" role 00:21:36 bless you wikipedia 00:21:42 |{protagonists who are girls}| is small, |{protagonists who are girls}∩{protagonists who are quieter, shy, and/or less assertive}| is smaller 00:21:48 blikipedia 00:22:06 good use of set notation. 00:22:12 I am such a dork :/ 00:22:23 and yeah i was gonna say (re: "were they japanese") that you're not exactly Faith (nb. have not played mirror's edge) 00:22:45 I should totally play mirror's edge though 00:22:52 I actually like have it on steam from a summer sale for like a dollar or three 00:22:54 and I still haven't played it 00:22:59 heh 00:23:02 it's apparently `not that good' but it might be fun 00:23:03 but Radiant Historia is fun 00:23:18 i do want to try the idea though, i love running around games 00:23:36 i've never heard anything bad about mirror's edge really :/ 00:23:41 I think opinion on it is kind of split? I've heard a lot of people kind of loved it 00:24:30 while others were like oh no it's not about shooting people!!! and you have to be a ~girl~ and they have cooties gosh no 00:24:30 i might have moved in different circles of criticism 00:24:42 yeah maybe 00:24:42 i hadn't read the version of Two Gentlemen of Lebowski that has footnotes explaining the "shakespearean" language 00:24:44 okay maybe I am being a bit too unfair <.< 00:24:45 most excellent 00:24:49 i played Mirror's Edge 00:24:50 kmc: awesome 00:24:59 it's worth a dollar or three for sure 00:25:03 the errant signal guy was pretty critical of the crowbarred shooting and i read this complete evisceration of the plot once 00:25:19 i didn't finish it but i had some fun 00:25:19 isn't the plot like, shiny 1984 00:25:22 it can cause motion sickness 00:25:26 hopefully for 2 they'll be given more creative control 00:25:40 yeah it's set in some kind of ultra-clean dystopian police state 00:25:44 like singapore lololol 00:25:51 if mirror's edge 2 is more about the arab spring mode of protest that would be kinda cool 00:25:54 ~topical~ 00:26:54 i understand that it's not very obviously dystopian though 00:27:03 this was one of the things the guy did not like 00:27:16 isn't that like, the point of an ultra clean police state 00:27:37 if a flimsy plot doomed a game to be "eviscerated" I would expect like, every reviewer ever to eviscerate call of duty or something 00:27:38 i think by chapter 2 or 3 the politicians are framing your friend for murder 00:27:38 what 00:27:47 what if i just linked to the thing 00:27:52 i don't remember exactly but uh, it seemed pretty obviously dystopian to me 00:28:07 the whole conceit is that these badass parkour couriers exist because electronic communications are all tapped 00:28:10 i thought 00:28:11 http://www.chocolatehammer.org/?p=750 <- "the thing" 00:28:15 whatever, buy it, play it, don't puke 00:28:28 but it's vastly more important that Phantom_Hoover buy System Shock 2 00:28:29 (this is kind of why I don't like game reviewers much, I kind of feel like they come up with an opinion of a game, and then create lots of justifications for why they didn't like it or liked it, after the fact) 00:28:34 Fiora: call of duty's plot is hilarious though 00:28:40 Fiora: yep! i feel that way about most reviews of things actually 00:28:45 it's so much deeper than "russia invades so we can reenact the cold war" 00:28:53 it's the whole "~rationality~" thing of like 00:28:53 and by deeper i mean lol 00:28:59 Fiora: like every review of Season 4 of Community has to talk at length about how the show is Not The Same after Dan Harmon left 00:28:59 it's not really a review but w/e 00:29:03 I am rational, so I use rationality and logic to justify my arbitrary personal feelings 00:29:03 and it isn't 00:29:16 but also it seems like they were going to say that no matter what 00:29:20 "Did that seem confusing or vague? It did?" er not really 00:29:28 reading good reviews of things you like is great though! 00:29:41 "And come to think of it, does the government really have such a tight grip on everything that rebels can only communicate by snail mail transported by Cirque du Soleil? I mean, I’m no tech expert, but I’m pretty sure there’s some type of electronic communication that can’t be easily intercepted." i um 00:29:46 ummmmmm 00:29:49 XD 00:29:54 i assume he means crypto 00:29:56 Bike: I still like. gosh, the parody xbox one presentation by that australian dude 00:30:26 Phantom_Hoover: man you live in a country where the police can arrest you for not giving up your keys :/ 00:30:29 Fiora: the what? 00:30:40 Bike: i assume they can do that in most countries, with a valid subpoena 00:30:43 Bike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KOxdMQhDMIU#t=2m45s 00:30:47 (just that 5 seconds) 00:30:56 also HOLA NSA 00:31:13 Fiora, that guy 00:31:13 hola kmc 00:31:14 isn't english 00:31:28 she said australian! 00:31:29 i was reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_political_jokes yesterday 00:31:36 there are some really fucking funny ones 00:31:38 fuck 00:31:39 my headcanon is that this is actually how everyone in the world sees american shooter game type things 00:31:41 he's not australian 00:31:45 oh 00:31:58 headcannon 00:32:07 oh. he's not? darnit <.< 00:32:25 kmc: i meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000 00:32:29 i'd almost forgotten about the english/australian confusion 00:32:31 i don't think they need warrants for a lot of it 00:32:52 but i don't live in the UK or know about it really. 00:32:56 also: russian jokes own. 00:33:19 also recently i realised i can tell between australian and new zealand accents 00:33:21 that was good 00:33:32 Fiora: oh lol that. 00:33:34 me too although i don't know if i can tell 'real' ones or just stereotyped ones 00:33:35 dogs 00:33:45 "america's in trouble! and... guns." 00:33:47 dogues 00:34:03 also I learned today that "to squizz" is .au english for "to look at / read / examine" 00:34:11 sounds like something much more gross to me 00:34:38 how do those australians do it 00:34:42 «The principle of socialist economy of the period of transition to communism: the authorities pretend they are paying wages, workers pretend they are working. Alternately, "So long as the bosses pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work." This joke persisted essentially unchanged through the 1980s.» ok well that's depressing 00:34:43 upside down 00:35:00 communism: zero failure modes 00:35:36 "No my friend, we will not live long enough to see communism, but our children... poor children" 00:35:58 Phantom_Hoover: how do I tell the difference between english and australian accents ._. and what about the english in australia and australians and england and agh 00:36:10 omg this one 00:36:12 "Communism was a humour-producing machine. Its economic theories and system of repression created inherently funny situations. There were jokes under fascism and the Nazis too, but those systems did not create an absurd, laugh-a-minute reality like communism." 00:36:21 Three men sit in a jail in (KGB headquarters) Dzerzhinsky Square. The first asks the second why he has been imprisoned, and he says, "Because I criticized Karl Radek." The first man responds, "But I am here because I spoke out in favor of Radek!" They turn to the third man who has been sitting quietly in the back, and ask him why he is in jail too. He responds, "I'm Karl Radek." 00:36:42 Fiora, 'they sound different' i guess? i dunno 00:37:04 alternate between british comedies and something australian i guess 00:37:56 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:38:26 Bike: http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/sample/sample-3d41a11efe619c8899f6594ce6ab2242.jpg ooooh so that's the one this was referencing. I get it now 00:38:38 this just reminds me that i know people who say 30s USSR was fantastic, blergh 00:38:49 Fiora: lol 00:39:05 Fiora: wasn't that a parody of maoist PRC? 00:39:25 it was a two-part comic, the first part was the soviet union 00:39:30 the second part was maoist PRC 00:39:31 oh, good 00:39:48 oh 1953 was stalin's death 00:40:19 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:52 unfortunately i have now lost my familiarity with scottish accents 00:41:29 aren't you scottish 00:42:10 yes but i go to university in england 00:42:11 unrelatedly i'm watching a boardsofcanada promotional video that seems to be entirely static 00:43:20 i guess that's the same as the albums 00:43:29 30s USSR was probably pretty good if you're an urban industrial worker and not being arbitrarily purged by stalin 00:44:07 i guess. i'm guessing these jokes were popular, though... 00:44:13 yeah 00:45:18 "Jokes about Khrushchev are often related to his attempts to reform the economy, especially to introduce maize. He was even called kukuruznik (maizeman)" it's weird how corn wasn't a thing in the old world, man 00:46:02 are cornflakes actually made with corn 00:46:08 it's weird how many european countries are associated with a national cuisine that couldn't exist in the pre-columbian era 00:46:17 tomatoes in italy, potatoes in ireland 00:46:25 coffee too, right? 00:46:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_in_20_years it's great how this sounds exactly like transhumanism 00:46:28 chocolate definitely. 00:46:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:46:37 communism in 20 years, fusion power in 30 00:46:41 kmc: according to my book on burma corn got so popular so fast that it is and was considered native 00:46:57 they didn't have tobacco in old europe either 00:46:59 right 00:47:15 "A follower of Sylvester Graham, the inventor of graham crackers and graham bread, Kellogg believed that spicy or sweet foods would increase passions." the invention of cornflakes 00:47:16 Bike: meaning what 00:47:22 yeah fuck that guy 00:47:45 kmc: meaning if you asked a burmese farmer where corn came from they'd probably say their ancestors had been farming it for millenia. 00:47:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chute_tobacco.JPG tbh not sure what this guy is smoking is tobacco 00:47:48 Bike: haha 00:47:49 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:48:07 i like how traditions are so often untraditional~ 00:48:21 corn is pretty cool. if you've invented nixtamalization i guess 00:48:27 also how the fuck did people come up with stuff like that 00:48:40 dude have you seen the grain corn evolved from? 00:48:43 let's mix some lye and ash into this food and see if it becomes better 00:48:44 i don't even know how people came up with corn 00:48:45 good plan bro 00:48:49 -!- loleilo22 has joined. 00:48:49 Bike: which one is that 00:48:54 teosinte 00:49:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teosinte_Jalisco.jpg look at this shit! 00:49:08 "yes, let's farm this" 00:49:23 hmm 00:49:33 i'm just saying there was a fucking crazy mesoamerican agriculturalist back in the day 00:49:35 how much of guns germs and steel is bullshit 00:49:47 a lot of it 00:49:48 -!- loleilo22 has left. 00:50:23 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corncobs.jpg pretty 00:50:35 (i haven't read it but) from what i understand anthropologists usually consider it to overemphasize geography (because, written by geographer) and they largely don't like geographic determinism, though they do think geography is important obviously 00:51:01 and iirc his numbers on spread of different crops are basically pulled out of his ass. 00:51:33 kmc, each kernel is actually fertilised individually so you can actually use cobs as really neat demonstrations of mendelevian genetics 00:51:39 really 00:51:40 awesome 00:52:02 there are even two sets of really obvious dominant/recessive traits 00:52:18 one time my parents accidentally crossed edible corn and indian corn 00:52:26 good demonstration of plant breeding (none of the result was edible) 00:52:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:52:56 are your parents... farmers? 00:52:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:53:17 wannabes 00:53:29 it was just a backyard garden 00:53:51 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:53:54 lightweights 00:54:03 (are american farmers all the american version of posh?) 00:54:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:54:25 i lived down the street from the Pioneer Hybrid experimental corn farm 00:54:53 well there's lots of kind of american farming, there's industrial farming and there's my neighbors, you know? 00:55:03 i wouldn't describe either as posh 00:55:31 in new hampshire and vermont it seemed like a lot of people had basically a suburban house with a small farm, near other suburban houses 00:55:33 can you be posh if you know how to operate and repair combine harvesters 00:55:41 yes 00:55:51 bigger and more farm-shaped than what you would call a 'backyard garden' and they had some livestock too 00:55:57 but not enough to live from solely 00:56:09 the only tory area in scotland is the one with lots of farmers and not much else 00:56:26 you could buy eggs at the store and they would have a handwritten label saying whose chickens they came from and you could go there and say hi to the chickens probably 00:57:06 whereas I grew up near a bunch of big industrial farms with buildings very far apart that can only be worked by expensive machines 00:57:28 also the industrial pig lots 00:57:30 smell fucking awful 00:58:08 aiui pigs aren't really inherently dirty, but they aren't picky either 00:58:35 i eat eggs from chickens that live in my backyard. am i posh 00:58:40 no 00:58:44 that's p. cool 00:58:45 how many do you have 00:58:47 that's a middle-class thing, for sure 00:58:59 it's a middle class thing and also a yuppie thing 00:59:02 six 00:59:06 how often do they lay 00:59:19 they used to all lay once a day but they don't any more 00:59:22 we're gonna slaughter 'em soon 00:59:24 ok 00:59:41 hatch an egg from each of them!! 00:59:50 going to grow oyster mushrooms at the new place, not any chickens though probably 00:59:55 «A frightened man came to the KGB. "My talking parrot disappeared." "This is not our case. Go to the criminal police." "Excuse me. Of course I know that I have to go to them. I am here just to tell you officially that I disagree with that parrot."» 00:59:56 you need a rooster for that PH 01:00:00 Phantom_Hoover: roosters are the actual worst though 01:00:23 you're a biologist! work something out! 01:00:51 you can't have a rooster in a (sub)urban area 01:01:19 "My wife has been going to cooking school for three years." / "She must really cook well by now!" / "No, they've only reached the part about the Twentieth CPSU Congress so far." 01:01:28 we're not suburban, we just don't want to deal with roosters >_> 01:01:38 the neighbors' are already annoying enough 01:01:39 how far is the nearest other house 01:01:41 heh 01:01:45 do you... live in the country 01:01:48 i do 01:02:04 also you're in WA, are you going to start growing cannabis 01:02:08 does the climate there support it 01:02:18 i don't know where cannabis grows actually 01:02:23 the climate here is basically: wet 01:02:28 i have a video about how to grow weed indoor; it seems like a pretty fun project; I kind of wish I'd done it when I was in college and the risks were minimal 01:03:36 Yeltsin's aide approaches him and says, "Mister President, two guests are here to see you: the Pope, and the director of the International Monetary Fund. Who shall I show in first?" Yeltsin thinks for a moment, then says: "Show in the Pope; at least I only have to kiss his ring." 01:04:05 bike, these are terrible 01:04:17 mo like awesome 01:04:43 yeah you can grow pot in WA i'm pretty sure 01:04:50 kmc: i think the main obstacle to growing weed right now is that the licensing system isn't implemented yet 01:04:55 a lot of it is grown in norcal (it's 1/3 of the economy in mendocino county) 01:05:04 well, main legal obstacle 01:05:05 and the #1 cash crop statewide 01:05:13 http://www.nwpr.org/post/indoor-marijuana-grows-could-hamper-seattles-climate-change-goals 01:05:15 wait. why did i even ask about the climate? they already grow tons of weed up the road 01:05:55 kmc: that's like the most seattle thing i've ever seen. 01:06:04 says outdoor grows are easier east of the cascades 01:06:15 east of the cascades is basically all farms, so 01:07:01 it's near-desert, the contrast with the west here is kinda neat. 01:08:09 cool 01:09:33 the school i'm going to is in the east too, it's farm school as fuck 01:11:52 to get there i took this road: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_State_Route_26 which had like three towns in seventy miles, which i took mostly at 100 mph 01:16:15 nicu 01:16:17 nice* 01:16:54 http://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/ 01:20:45 8but do they support SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW? 01:22:41 wow, that's a nasty attack 01:23:21 yep 01:23:56 kmc: did you read the hunting of the snark 01:23:58 no 01:24:01 ok 01:24:10 can you even reliably fold case across languages 01:24:13 should i paste 12 lines of it in here........................ y/n 01:24:16 that seems lie it might be intractable 01:24:18 n 01:24:26 y not 01:24:36 Bike, turkish, for one 01:24:37 that;s a lot of lines 01:25:19 http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Case_folding#Turkish_i.2FI_etc. that doesn't seem hard 01:25:34 i guess this is called "normalization", oops 01:27:02 it seems like the least hassle would just be having people pick an account and display name separately and make the account name publicly accessible 01:27:07 that paper i read on burmese unicode involved things like using zero-width spaces to mark syllable boundaries... optionally 01:27:22 Phantom_Hoover: and the account name has to be ascii? 01:27:34 that's what twitter does i guess 01:27:39 yeah 01:28:06 * kmc wonders what kind of awesome username he would pick on a site that forced Cyrillic usernames 01:28:06 it's not ideal but it does work 01:28:16 give everyone a meaningless ID number, and then have a displayed name? 01:28:28 kmc: i call "Кракозя́бры" 01:28:36 Bike: but when you log in you need to provide some ID 01:28:44 yeah 01:28:44 well yeah 01:28:56 make people remember the number ("but that sucks" "so does everything") 01:29:10 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13/13-h/13-h.htm hth 01:29:15 Bike, that's what AW does... not for a particularly good reason though, Unicode names weren't supported until 5.0 01:29:15 for people who just flat out don't know ascii you could have a 'create random name' button and tell them to remember it 01:30:02 so same as mine. 01:30:02 Bike: shitty UX 01:30:02 UX? 01:30:05 user xperience 01:30:13 aw :( 01:30:25 He had bought a large map representing the sea, / Without the least vestige of land: / And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be / A map they could all understand. "What's the good of Mercator's North Poles and Equators, / Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?" / So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply / "They are merely conventional signs! 01:30:27 sorry but consumer apps will always choose the pleasant UX over the move that theoretically makes certain security holes go away 01:30:30 it's like, i already have my SSN and uni ID# memorized, why not pile more onto that 01:30:31 "Other mps are such shapes, with teheir islands and capes! / But we've got our brave Captain to thank:" / (So the crew would protest) "that he's bought us the best— / A perfect and absolute blank!" 01:30:34 oops 01:30:41 oh and my phone number i guess 01:30:45 basically i hate everything. 01:30:46 two lines got merged into one line "sry" 01:30:50 by lines i mean verses 01:31:14 (are there keyboards without ascii readily accessible on them?) 01:31:22 the whole of ascii? 01:31:26 i can't type control characters 01:31:30 yes 01:31:30 Uh, yes you can. 01:31:36 That's what the Control key is for. 01:31:37 i started saying ascii instead of latin a while back 01:31:46 and i've kind of committed 01:31:56 oerjan: ban Phantom_Hoover hth 01:31:59 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:07 help why 01:32:15 well 'latin' could include a lot of diacritis and stuff 01:32:20 -!- Bike has joined. 01:32:21 or just all of ISO-8859-1 01:32:27 'english' :P 01:32:42 Phantom_Hoover: but yeah if you have a turkish keyboard or whatever and you don't need "c" it's not gonna be obviously there 01:32:43 ofc. if you're going to be a pedant that still includes non-ascii characters 01:33:31 i think japanese keyboards maybe usually only allow fullwidth input i dunno 01:33:56 i still have a 40 bit WEP key from 2005 memorized 01:34:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:800px-KB_Thai_Kedmanee.png 01:34:11 I still have a list of words from third grade memorized. 01:34:13 We all memorized them! 01:34:28 wow, not even arabic numbers 01:34:44 Maybe this problem would be better attacked by psychologists... 01:34:56 have them figure out what can be (a) easily typed (b) easily remembered (c) not easily guessed? 01:35:12 binyan chevel matos orev falafel bateriyot kfitz dam nechashim chol maghetz prachim shvil yeled savta 01:35:19 why do you not want it guessed... 01:35:27 I bet every classmate I had in third grade remembers that list. 01:35:32 well that's for passwords since that's what i was complaining about earlier. 01:35:41 oh 01:35:47 Oh, on that note. I got my password reset! I called in and recited my ID# and birthdate. 01:35:50 p. secure 01:36:07 (do unicode passwords end up being messy? i mean i can't see there being any problems) 01:36:21 WEP is so bad 01:36:36 Phantom_Hoover: there's a lot of potential for false negatives on the password check 01:36:39 is WEP the one that's super easily crackable 01:36:46 i always get it confused with WPA 01:36:52 you have to normalize to prevent that 01:37:02 and users might still include invisible characters by mistake 01:37:09 Bike: yeah it's the one 01:37:17 they used RC4 with a 24 bit IV 01:37:20 kmc, i'm working on the assumption that people probably aren't going to use crazy alternate glyphs for their own passwords 01:37:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:37:25 "For a 24-bit IV, there is a 50% probability the same IV will repeat after 5000 packets." 01:37:32 Phantom_Hoover: they might use different computers and different input modes though 01:37:36 yeah that was pretty great. 01:37:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:37:44 > 1.2 * sqrt (2^24) 01:37:46 4915.2 01:37:47 zomg it works 01:37:51 how much scope for difference is there with input modes 01:37:54 For instance, in ISO 8859-1 the letter 'ç' can only be represented as the single character E7 'ç', but in a Unicode encoding it can be represented as the single character U+00E7 'ç' or the sequence U+0063 'c' U+0327 '¸'. In HTML it could be additionally represented as ç or ç or ç (five equivalent representations in total). 01:38:03 This is in the web report on normalization; seems like a pretty good example 01:38:08 yeah 01:38:17 isn't that 1.2 * sqrt n thing p. great 01:38:19 imo yes 01:38:32 why 1.2? 01:38:34 what? 01:38:35 and i "h8 apprxmtions" 01:38:38 is this a fake logarithm 01:38:43 > sqrt (2^24) 01:38:44 4096.0 01:38:56 > 1.2 * sqrt 365 01:38:57 22.925967809451357 01:39:13 why is unicode so fond of alternate glyphs anyway 01:39:15 It's the birthday probability thing for a 50% chance of collision when there are N days. 01:39:24 Phantom_Hoover: round trip compatibility with legacy encodings 01:39:50 this design goal is perhaps regrettable, but it's very useful sometimes 01:39:59 what's it useful for 01:40:04 I don't remember the exact derivation... 01:40:04 for example it means your programming language can have a single type for "text", and only think about encodings on input and output 01:40:10 oh 01:40:22 more useful than computer manipulation of some characters being ridiculously fiddly? 01:40:40 compared to (say) ruby where the bytes making up a string are observable, and the encoding is stored as metadata that can be inaccurate 01:41:03 Ruby 1.9 is much better than 1.8 about things. 01:41:17 i'm not sure you could handle "text" generically in any way that isn't fiddly as hell 01:41:24 aren't the cool kids using 2.0 now 01:41:37 Did Ruby do the dumb thing and kill call/cc yet? 01:41:45 yeah I have to imagine you would need some notion of normalization even without the legacy encoding design goal 01:41:52 for example what about the order in which combining chars are applied 01:42:01 ooh that was in the burma thing too. 01:42:10 Ruby killed callcc and then brought it back, 01:42:12 s/.$/./ 01:42:15 the normalization scheme involved the pagelong regex i mentioned eariler. 01:42:31 "good scheme" 01:44:10 "an EBCDIC style sheet being directly applied to an ASCII document, or a font specification in a Shift_JIS style sheet directly used on a system that maintains font names in UTF-16" the horror...... 01:44:52 i like the hacks where XSS sanitization becomes ineffective if you convince the user to switch their browser to Shift-JIS 01:45:05 if an attacker does, I mean 01:45:42 have we considered, like, abandoning the concept of writing 01:45:44 for security reasons 01:46:15 remember the stripe ctf thing where we had different solutions 01:46:35 we can just communicate with hand gestures and grunting 01:46:38 mine was embedding inside some json text 01:47:01 i don't remember your solution 01:47:14 was your solution the fact that there was a bug in the ctf and it just gave you a cookie with secret information 01:47:23 Bike, no 01:47:31 imo we should consider it. 01:47:36 attackers might punch people 01:47:42 that was my solution shachaf 01:47:57 i didn't know about the trick at the time 01:47:59 good solution 01:48:05 you solved three levels that way right 01:48:13 i don't think so 01:48:18 hmm 01:48:22 Phantom_Hoover: we have robust security protocols for dealing with that though! (shooting them) 01:48:23 i think that was the only one where I didn't get the "right" solution 01:48:23 they mentioned that three levels had that bug 01:48:27 ah 01:48:30 v. powerful attack imo 01:48:36 it's super effective 01:48:50 i wonder if "..." -> "…" could count as normalization 01:48:53 do you identify with the main character in unicode 01:48:59 Bike, attackers might goad users into punching them 01:49:11 do you identify with the main character in main is usually a function 01:49:20 Phantom_Hoover: entrapment!! 01:49:46 hey kmc you're all about mushrooms right 01:49:51 can you make booze with them 01:50:08 Menlo Park, CA, United States 06/18/2013 6:27 A.M.Out For Delivery 01:50:16 where are my books..........did they die 01:50:47 «In some of the following examples, '¸' is used to depict the character U+0327 combining cedilla, for the purposes of illustration. Had a real U+0327 been used instead of this spacing (non-combining) variant, some browsers might combine it with a preceding 'c', resulting in a display indistinguishable from a U+00E7 'ç' and a loss of understandability of the examples. In addition, if the sequence c + combining cedilla were present, ... 01:50:53 ... this document would not be include-normalized.» help 01:50:56 shachaf: what books 01:51:11 fictional books 01:51:17 they're full of things that never actually happened 01:51:41 oh 01:51:54 unless they're double-fictional 01:52:05 kmc: Did you switch to tmux yet? 01:54:51 -!- sprocklem has joined. 01:57:20 http://www.bitpremier.com/items/view/37 01:58:27 shachaf: i switched, now i've switched back to screen mostly 01:58:31 because screen stopped segfaulting 01:58:52 Phantom_Hoover: i don't know about that 01:58:56 will ask a friend one sec 01:59:15 kmc: but what about 1D74F MATHEMATICAL BOLD ITALIC PARTIAL DIFFERENTIAL [𝝏] 01:59:36 apparently the protein content makes them useless for it 01:59:43 1D7C7 MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC PHI SYMBOL [𝟇] 01:59:56 1D7A5 MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL PHI [𝞥] 02:00:01 oh my god. 02:00:02 good codepoints 02:00:10 what have you wrought, unicode. 02:00:15 yay my books 02:00:17 why is it not CAPITAL PHI SYMBOL 02:00:19 so many questions 02:01:18 ugh 02:01:20 Phantom_Hoover: she thinks it's unlikely 02:01:29 people who stick those stickers on the backs of books..................... 02:01:51 mushrooms don't contain much carbohydrates and when they do, it's usually something like trehalose that generally can't be digested 02:01:56 kmc: you in CA now? 02:02:05 copumpkin: not yet; leaving next thursday 02:02:05 kmc, damn 02:02:10 dwarf fortress is ruined now 02:02:22 what happened in df 02:02:36 Someone posted a huge thing about it in the subreddit? 02:02:48 copumpkin: You should come visit! 02:02:50 kmc: already have a job or gonna look for one there? 02:02:52 shachaf: the worst 02:02:52 sounds like they are sometimes used as additives in beer 02:02:53 I have no idea how that ruins it, but hey 02:02:58 copumpkin: I'm going to be working at Mozilla 02:03:00 shachaf: I'd love to :P competing interests 02:03:03 oh yeah, forgot 02:03:03 working on Servo, the new browser written in Rust 02:03:08 should be fun times 02:03:13 new browser huh 02:03:14 cool :) 02:03:18 excitin 02:03:22 what part will you be working on, do you know 02:03:37 Bike: yeah, well, it's just a new rendering engine for now, and they've just progressed to the point where you can, like, click on links 02:03:40 so it's still early days 02:03:40 is it big enough that people are working on "parts" 02:03:55 but they are pretty serious about it eventually being a real thing 02:04:11 shachaf: I think I'm like the second or third full time paid employee working on Servo specifically 02:04:16 most of the dev to date has been done by the Rust team 02:04:24 also it's all open source so they have various others contributing 02:04:32 a bunch of people at Samsung are contributing to Rust and Servo now 02:04:41 lolrust 02:04:52 also why does kmc have +v 02:05:00 seized it in a bloodless coup 02:05:06 (all stranglings) 02:05:11 I feel like this is unhfairly discriminating against mutes 02:05:18 coppro: what do you think of rust 02:05:29 kmc: I think it needs to actually be thought about 02:05:32 rather than just built 02:06:52 mozilla seems like a fantastic place to work 02:07:16 also they pay... quite well, especially for being a non-profit 02:08:41 :O 02:08:45 omg monies 02:09:10 what funds them? 02:09:21 the google mafia 02:09:55 google pays them mad cash to have google be the default search engine in firefox 02:10:06 soon capitalism will be replaced by the "get google to pay you" economy 02:10:08 lol 02:10:10 basically yes 02:10:19 wait, that's it? 02:10:23 that's most of their revenue yeah 02:10:26 holy shit 02:10:33 they have similar partnerships with other search engines in other countries 02:10:35 i know right? 02:10:36 don't they employ hundreds of devs? 02:10:53 On 20 December 2011 Mozilla announced that the contract was once again renewed for at least three years to November 2014, at three times the amount previously paid, or nearly US$300 million annually.[11][12] Approximately 85% of Mozilla’s revenue for 2006 was derived from this contract. 02:10:59 in their recent deal with google they got 3x the previous rate, thanks to a bidding war between google and msft 02:11:00 wow 02:11:06 that's crazy 02:11:08 yeah they have over 600 employees total 02:11:11 and like a dozen really nice offices 02:11:13 totally stable business model, there 02:11:25 mind blown :) 02:11:38 the current contract is locked in until november 2014 02:11:43 and they think that if google stops paying, they can get other companies easily 02:11:48 unless FF market share takes a nosedive of course 02:11:52 so they care a lot about that ;P 02:11:56 does opera make any money that way 02:11:58 I see why google's putting a lot of weight behind chrome :) 02:12:09 where's google get its revenue anyway. is it ads like seems obvious or do they sacrifice children or what 02:12:13 mostly ads 02:12:23 or so they say... could be laundering money from child sacrifices 02:13:09 I pay good money to watch gruesome child-death 02:13:22 don't y'all? 02:13:23 Google Royale 02:13:40 google's whole business model is about providing services to get more people on the web, and giving stuff away for free so that nobody else can charge for it 02:13:41 copumpkin: no more than five dola 02:13:53 because they are the best at ads 02:14:00 kmc: that sounds really cynical when you put it that way 02:14:06 they don't care if you use gmail or some other webmail that also serves google ads ;P 02:14:16 Bike: *shrug* google gotta get paid 02:14:23 can't fault them for being a for profit company 02:14:32 i mean it's not surprising, i just hadn't thought of it that way 02:15:11 this is why they made Android; Apple was on the way to a smartphone monopoly, and if they had that monopoly they could start to undermine Google's whole deal 02:15:19 because the Apple model is about paying for content in a walled garden 02:15:47 I mean if Apple had such a monopoly they could chip away at the very idea that search and maps etc. should be ubiquitous free services 02:16:21 what if a company comes around with a model based on ads being a free service 02:16:25 !!! 02:16:31 ¡¡¡ 02:16:36 doom 02:16:36 YES 02:16:39 oh no 02:17:00 Petronius the Arbiter is a good name for a cat. 02:18:22 While still a kitten, all fluff and buzzes, Pete had worked out a simple philosophy. I was in charge of quarters, rations, and weather; he was in charge of everything else. But he held me especially responsible for weather. Connecticut winters are good only for Christmas cards; regularly that winter Pete would check his own door, refuse to go out it because of that unpleasant white stuff beyond it (he was no fool), then badger me to open a ... 02:18:28 ... people door. 02:18:31 He had a fixed conviction that at least one of them must lead into summer weather. Each time this meant that I had to go around with him to each of eleven doors, hold it open while he satisfied himself that it was winter out that way, too, then go on to the next door, while his criticisms of my mismanagement grew more bitter with each disappointment. 02:19:14 `addquote doom YES oh no 02:19:18 1054) doom YES oh no 02:21:15 Bike: haha Google Royale 02:21:30 that reminds me I should watch The Internship, that terrible movie / 2 hour ad for Google that came out recently 02:21:36 lol really 02:22:01 have you considered all the alternatives you have to watching it 02:22:04 such as not watching it 02:22:24 what's it about 02:22:31 beyond "an internship" i guess 02:22:35 what... is google royale 02:23:09 it's about two old guys who have to compete with a bunch of Kids These Days for an internship at google 02:23:10 pun on Battle Royale 02:23:20 that 02:23:22 which is a japanese movie about kids killing each other 02:23:25 is the opposite of a pun 02:23:34 your mom is the opposite of a pun 02:28:27 Do there, in fact, exist programmers that know what they're doing? 02:28:27 so i just realized that STEM means basically nothing. how do i deal with this 02:28:34 nobody knows what they're doing 02:28:37 people don't know things 02:28:39 folk psychology 02:28:44 i know what i'm doing 02:28:49 but also so do most people, roughly 02:29:04 the two sides of the debate 02:29:11 the truth is in the middle 02:29:14 obviously 02:29:39 kmc: no the truth is obviously to one side 02:29:43 (try applying your doctrine now, hah) 02:30:07 the truth is in the 1/4 or 3/4 position 02:30:19 The truth has an asymtotic curve towards one side. 02:31:22 what 02:31:32 that doesn't make sense Sgeo 02:31:43 the truth doesn't make sense 02:31:54 you can't handle the truth 02:31:57 you don't make snes 02:32:24 Truth is center, truth is a side, truth is somewhere between those two except it's to one side, so let's go between those except it's to a side, so... 02:32:40 is that a song lyric 02:32:54 i hope so 02:32:59 otherwise 02:33:00 same 02:33:01 sgeo... 02:33:06 same 02:33:15 I was under the impression that this entire conversation was silly... 02:33:56 whoa 02:38:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:42:49 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:42:56 -!- Gregor has joined. 02:43:14 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 02:43:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:53:06 if you're moving to California you have to inspect all of your stuff for gypsy moths 02:53:29 i guess 02:53:38 this didn't happen the first time I moved to California 02:54:06 haven't they always been strict about invasives? when we drove down there a couple years ago they stopped us at the border to search for oranges 02:54:46 heh 02:59:02 szechuan pepper used to be banned for import to the US because it can carry a citrus disease 03:13:42 How thorough is the inspection? 03:14:02 it's a self-inspection 03:14:04 we had to open containers and stuff 03:14:09 for the guard 03:14:32 also it's not everything, they have a checklist mostly of stuff that is stored outside, camping gear, things like that 03:18:39 Bike: what do you mean by "STEM means basically nothing" 03:18:56 well, what's it supposed to include? 03:19:33 science, technology, engineering, and math 03:19:58 there are some grey areas, that doesn't mean it's meaningless 03:20:04 that's a very STEM attitude ;) 03:20:20 @quote formalist 03:20:20 SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. 03:20:21 hardy har. But I mean, the NSF and others define it differently, etc 03:21:51 yeah but their definitions are not totally divergent right 03:22:15 one's a subset of the other, i guess 03:22:41 did this observation come out of a more specific inconsistency between them? 03:23:12 well, the reason i was thinking about it is that computational neuroscience counts me as STEM at school, even though i don't think biosciences generally do 03:23:21 programming is cool because it's variously considered S, T, E, or M and people will argue forever about which it is 03:23:27 how is bioscience not science 03:23:33 hell if i know 03:23:40 that's very weird 03:23:43 who says it isn't? 03:23:59 maybe it's because of that thing where like, "STEM" tends to mean whatever the speaker thinks of as ~real sciences for real men~ type of thing 03:24:05 "The NSF uses a broader category to define STEM subjects which includes subjects in the fields of Chemistry, Computer and Information Technology Science, Engineering, Geosciences, Life Science..." 03:24:25 yeah 03:24:42 after all bioscience can't be nearly as hard as building daily deals sites in rails 03:24:43 US ICE doesn't list straight biology as STEM, looks like 03:25:01 like is sociology a STEM? 03:25:03 I mean it's science 03:25:07 is psychology science enough? 03:25:30 NSF and ICE list it 03:25:34 or economics? I mean that's math, right? it's like. where do you draw the line? 03:25:47 (man why does the DHS even have this list. immigration policy is so fucked) 03:25:56 Bike: i know right 03:26:14 "welp you got your degree and could start a lucrative business now so GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE COUNTRY" 03:26:27 "Digital Communication and Media/Multimedia" is STEM 03:26:39 i don't really have an opinion on whether social science should be included in "STEM" 03:26:41 i just... don't care 03:26:57 well mostly i think that like, the whole policy it's based around is pretty stupid regardless 03:27:12 it depends on context i'm sure. like people often talk about getting young kids interested in STEM, and in that case it's more about some fundamental skills that are applicable in lots of fields 03:27:15 like what's the idea? we need more engineers but not more doctors so let's put more money into engineering education? 03:27:16 like, you know, math 03:27:24 and about making it seem exciting 03:27:43 Bike: what's wrong with that kind of government policy 03:27:56 if you think their reasoning for needing more engineers is wrong, that's one thing 03:28:07 well it might work if you were more specific, but just science in general seems pretty vague? 03:28:15 you could just fund postsecondary education at that point 03:28:26 there are a lot of things that are clearly not STEM 03:28:31 i dunno 03:28:35 culinary sciences 03:28:37 is that STEM? XD 03:28:41 'molecular gastronomy' 03:28:49 wow they list four different "Computer Programming" programs 03:28:51 i hear that term was invented to secure space at a scientific conference 03:29:00 Fiora: no, but food science is 03:29:14 "food science"? 03:29:30 no idea, this just has names 03:29:57 Ceramic Sciences and Engineering 03:30:06 (this is all the list for immigration) 03:30:24 aw yiss they list mechatronics. i need to get in on that 03:31:22 `welcome Gracenotes to california 03:31:24 Gracenotes: to: california: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:31:25 Packaging Science. ????? 03:31:35 There. That's how you welcome people! 03:32:12 What do air, cars, laptops, plants, knee-replacements and lunch have in common? They all can be and are packaged! Students majoring in packaging science learn all about the design, engineering, science, innovation, research and business that make up this diverse industry. For more then 20 years, Clemson has been thinking outside of the box and producing career-ready graduates who are ready to solve the problems of tomorrow. Clemson is ... 03:32:18 ... one of just seven schools in the U.S. that offer a degree in packaging science. Our program is unique as it blends together biology, chemistry and physics so when you graduate you can fill a need within industry. Since this is a very hands-on major, you’ll get to work with package design and graphics, food and health care packaging and advanced materials. 03:32:51 "outside of the box" I GET IT 03:33:08 that's the kind of thinking you'll learn in this program, kmc 03:33:21 □ 03:33:30 Amazon hired package scientists to design its new ecofriendly packaging tape, I'm sure 03:33:36 i wonder what the hell biology has to do with it though. 03:33:50 more like ▣ 03:33:50 like... dealing with rotting, maybe? 03:34:02 i like how WHITE SQAURE is black on my terminal 03:34:13 typo* 03:34:42 Strategic Intelligence is STEM... that sounds like a military thing 03:34:56 General Intelligence is too and i have no idea what that is. can you major in being smart? 03:35:27 http://i.imgur.com/ggZ5yAJ.png ok when it comes down to it, I'm a pretty immature guy 03:36:01 What do you call a function when for any x there's some n such that f^n(x) = f^{n+1}(x)? 03:36:05 really need to petition for combining penis again 03:36:34 hm, good question. 03:37:49 Bike: character is already in use http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07022008 03:38:56 all i can think is that it's not continuous which isn't really helpful 03:39:23 kmc: i'll start the petition right away 03:39:25 Why not continuous? 03:39:34 so iterating on every input eventually reaches a fixed point? 03:39:38 rather than some kind of cycle 03:39:45 or infinitely flying off somewhere 03:39:58 there's probably a term for this in chaos theory / dynamical systems 03:40:03 that's where i would look anyway 03:40:31 Right. 03:40:55 yeah it's sort of like a limit set but not 03:42:05 "eventually idempotent" is a term that comes to mind... 03:42:48 Oh, apparently someone else has used that term, too. 03:43:00 http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~phorum/pdf/roa_823.pdf 03:43:15 ew linguistics :'( 03:50:47 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 03:50:47 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 03:50:49 -!- samebchase has quit (*.net *.split). 03:50:49 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 03:51:59 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 03:51:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 03:51:59 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 03:52:43 -!- jix has joined. 03:52:43 -!- kmc has joined. 03:52:43 -!- samebchase has joined. 03:52:43 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:52:43 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +v kmc . 03:53:46 -!- Bike has joined. 03:53:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:53:46 -!- ion has joined. 03:54:00 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 03:54:01 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 03:54:03 -!- samebchase has quit (*.net *.split). 03:54:03 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 03:54:03 shachaf: i checked with a dynamics guy and he couldn't think of a special term for it... 03:55:41 -!- jix has joined. 03:55:41 -!- kmc has joined. 03:55:41 -!- samebchase has joined. 03:55:41 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:55:41 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +v kmc . 03:55:50 I will continue to use "eventually idempotent", then. 03:56:13 yeah, seems descriptive enough. 03:57:39 seems good except in a setting where you already have an important notion of time 03:57:50 True. 03:57:54 Maybe you could say that there aren't any cycles of period > 1. 03:58:30 that is necessary but not sufficient for an infinite codomain 03:58:42 oh, duh, yeah. 03:58:55 i made the same mistake :) 03:59:30 oh, biodegradable packaging :) 03:59:42 er? 03:59:54 is what biology has to do with packaging science 04:00:00 yeah that's what i was thinking 04:00:15 kmc: model checking is "p. cool huh" 04:00:37 shachaf: i think so, haven't done any in a long time tho 04:00:54 keep-the-food-fresh packaging "the biology is for what the heck is that food doing in there what makes it spoil" 04:01:02 have you looked at Alloy? http://alloy.mit.edu/alloy/ 04:01:07 it's like model checking but not 04:01:09 interesting stuff 04:01:16 ??model checking but not?? 04:01:19 kmc: a monad is like a biodegradable package hth 04:01:24 >_< 04:02:18 imo all packaging should come pre-inoculated with oyster mushroom spawn 04:02:54 Apparenty, PHP is case-insensitive for functions, but case-sensitive for variables. 04:03:00 or maybe a monad is like a room where the walls keep moving in and you can't escape and you get crushed 04:03:06 why am i doing the thing i hate 04:03:12 Sgeo: probably so that constants work? 04:03:34 Sgeo: hilarious 04:03:44 i.e. somebody really wanted a variable called $_post 04:04:08 imo death to php 04:04:11 I,I casein-sensitiive 04:04:20 s/ii/i/ 04:04:28 Why is my keyboard producing double letters? 04:04:36 It started when I spilled some liquid in it. 04:04:44 I think? I never noticed it before. 04:04:50 I mean, I don't have an opinion in the great case-insensitive vs case-sensitive debate, but I think straddling the line is probably the worst of the options 04:04:53 Or maybe I'm making things up. 04:05:10 Is there a name for the golden mean fallacy applied in the situation where the mean is in fact the worst possible option? 04:05:19 Sgeo: very courageous of you to suggest that php does something badly 04:05:24 in here 04:05:51 Sgeo: i would describe that result as 'worst of both worlds' but that doesn't specifically invoke the fallacy 04:06:45 kmc, that phrase also implies that it's the negative features of each side that are prominent, when it's really just the inconsistency 04:06:50 hmm 04:06:51 true 04:07:19 'shifting the overton window in programming languages' would be a good title for probably a bad article 04:07:26 Also, there has to be something worse. Maybe case-sensitive if compilation starts on an even second of the minute, case-insensitive otherwise? 04:07:30 :) 04:08:43 it could be an interesting article but i don't have any ideas on how to actually do that so i won't write it 04:09:16 CoYoneda . Is = (->) 04:09:18 isn't that great ht 04:09:20 h 04:10:14 what are some good non-functor types to give to CoYoneda 04:14:10 :t Is 04:14:11 Not in scope: data constructor `Is' 04:14:11 Perhaps you meant `In' (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted) 04:14:28 wait that was dumb. oh well 04:14:31 is that your leibniz equality thing agai 04:14:32 n 04:14:35 no 04:14:38 just gadt equality 04:14:41 ok 04:14:43 well it doesn't matter here 04:14:49 @let data Is a b where Refl :: Is a a 04:14:49 Parse failed: GADTs is not enabled 04:14:54 elliott................... 04:15:06 @let data Is a b = (a ~ b) => Refl 04:15:06 Parse failed: TypeFamilies is not enabled 04:15:12 lol 04:15:12 elliott.......................................................... 04:15:27 Well, it hardly matters. 04:15:36 Yes, it's Leibniz equality. 04:15:44 by elimination :) 04:15:54 @let newtype Is a b = Is { subst :: forall p. p a -> p b } 04:15:54 Parse failed: TypeOperators is not enabled 04:16:04 elliott.............................................................................................................................................................................. 04:16:23 you already knew typeoperators wasn't enabled. 04:16:39 what does TypeOperators have to do with it? 04:16:42 I wasn't using TypeOperators. I was using RankNTypes. 04:16:48 I think it isn't seeing forall as a keyword. 04:16:53 (And instead seeing . as an operator.) 04:16:54 i thought you used it before, o well 04:17:07 try ∀ instead, hth 04:17:46 Ȁ 04:17:47 help 04:17:51 hjälp 04:18:08 ḧël̈p̈ 04:18:24 what language uses LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DOUBLE GRAVE 04:18:44 imo all of them 04:18:46 a dead language hth 04:19:05 (THE JOKE IS GRAVE) 04:19:08 (DOUBLE GRAVE) 04:19:11 (BECAUSE IT DIED) 04:19:12 more like, the joke is dire 04:19:13 (TWICE) 04:19:25 has shachaf finally snapped? tune in next week 04:19:29 theres a double joke whereby "hth" is a dead horse (RIP) 04:19:46 oerjan: ban mnoqy hth 04:22:57 when does a monqy become a mnoqy 04:28:20 where the heck other than the US do you have a program in "Joint Command Task Force Systems"; relatedly i'm feeling pretty bitter how much of the immigration "STEM" is military 04:28:37 sigh 04:28:54 i bet in german they have a single word for that 04:28:55 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:29:03 but is it any shorter 04:29:10 there's also "Undersea Warfare" which is definitely onewordgermanic 04:40:22 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:46:52 (I was originally wondering about the idempotence thing because of that creative-usernames thing, for what it's worth.) 04:47:40 oh. heh. 04:47:54 ah yeah 05:04:51 `welcome´ 05:04:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome´: not found 05:06:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:12:54 «For example, finding all occurences of «homogenos» [sic] allowing two errors in a one megabyte bibliographic text takes about 0.4 seconds on a SUN SparcStation II, which is about twice as fast as running the program egrep (which will not find anything because of the misspelling)» programmers sure are cheeky sometimes 05:13:08 «We actually used this example and found a misspelling in our text.» 05:20:45 sun sparcstation ii..sounds aight.. 05:21:08 fastest chip in the west 05:21:11 mnoqy: what does "aight" mean 05:21:22 a(lr)ight with a sexy accent 05:21:42 what does "a(lr)ight" mean 05:24:28 what does anything mean 05:28:19 alalr(1)ight 05:58:53 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:10:23 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:10:23 -!- surma has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:10:23 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:10:23 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:10:23 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:10:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:10:32 -!- glogbot has joined. 06:10:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:10:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 06:15:20 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:35:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:38:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:38:45 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 06:46:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:54:20 Hey, I remember reading that thing. From agrep something, right? 06:54:37 Yeah. 07:08:15 kmc: good mmap bug 07:08:25 thx 07:08:56 'more of a ptrace bug imo' 07:10:06 'well yes' 07:10:17 'but mmap is shorter than ptrace and communicated what i meant just as well' 07:10:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:10:27 'which was "a bug involving mmap", not "a bug in mmap"' 07:10:28 * kmc wonders if the freebsd ptrace interface is saner than the linux one 07:10:33 iirc os x's is even worse 07:10:34 these savings are now wasted on this metadiscussion 07:11:06 In OS X ptrace can't do half the things you want it to, right? 07:11:11 So there's some Mach-specific API. 07:11:11 someone was telling me how OS X doesn't (or didn't) provide a way to ptrace the child after a fork 07:11:14 right 07:13:08 would unboxed sum types improve ghc 07:13:47 maybe 07:13:51 would unboxed lazy vectors improve ghc 07:14:02 how do you do unboxed lazy? 07:14:57 -!- comex has joined. 07:26:59 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:28:14 imagine a function that e.g. returns a Maybe not actually allocating anything 07:28:42 what a wonderful world such would be 07:29:19 the best of all possible worlds 07:29:27 Maybe 07:29:57 eq :: (Typeable a, Typeable b) => Maybe (Is a b) 07:30:02 Should I push for that in base? 07:31:04 Anyone know a basic sparse array representation I can learn quicklike? 07:31:20 is it "basically a hash table" 07:32:04 It's an array of (index, value) tuples. 07:32:36 radix tree hth 07:33:16 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 07:35:02 uh, using what for branching? ranges? 07:35:36 Branching? 07:35:47 of the tree. 07:36:00 um, i was thinkin the keys would be integers, not strings, so. 07:36:09 integers = strings of bits hth 07:36:23 i guess that's ranges 07:36:25 that hs 07:43:26 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 07:43:46 whoa, dude, free -h 07:44:37 youre welcome 07:45:37 Bike: my idea for unboxed lazy arrays is that each cell is either a pointer to a thunk or an unboxed value 07:45:44 so they are sized to the larger of the two 07:45:49 and you have a bitmap or something to tell you which is which 07:45:59 kmc: could you implement that reasonably without changing ghc itself 07:46:14 the main problem would be the gc i guess? 07:46:17 if the unboxed value is smaller than a pointer then you can avoid taking up extra space for that bitmap 07:46:48 Bike: for your sparse array how about a trie 07:48:10 radix tree = trie with an optimization for long prefixes 07:48:33 yeah, i'm doing a radix tree 'cos of that. 07:48:35 IntMap is an example 07:48:48 ok 07:49:21 have you seen Data.Map's code it's too scary :'( 07:49:27 shouldn't code like this be simple or something :'( 08:04:03 what's a good way to get the position of the least significant bit not shared by two integers, i'm blanking 08:04:18 read Hacker's Delight, hth 08:04:28 right zero count of the xor i guess? 08:04:30 xor them and then yep 08:04:59 one am is not the time to be reading hacker's delight, i think 08:05:12 gcc Built-in Function: int __builtin_ffs (unsigned int x): Returns one plus the index of the least significant 1-bit of x, or if x is zero, returns zero. 08:05:24 ffs indeed 08:06:19 wait, isn't that the same as builtin_ctz 08:06:28 oh except for the defined zero 08:06:33 oh yeah 08:06:42 and uh plus one probably 08:06:43 god i'm tired 08:07:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_trailing_zeros how convenient 08:07:10 @oeis 1,2,1,3,1,2,1,4 08:07:40 Plugin `oeis' failed with: <> 08:07:52 wow, this is in posix? i had no idea 08:08:23 -!- surma has joined. 08:08:31 me either 08:08:33 ok posix has ctz but not clz 08:08:34 that's cool 08:08:35 wtf 08:09:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfin reading this stuff takes you to weird places 08:09:53 http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?37827-Greetings-from-GE-Canada 08:09:54 (this has hamming weight as an instruction, apparently) 08:10:02 ONES 08:10:21 kmc: well i'm terrified. 08:10:33 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ 08:11:03 Bike: me too, but I'm also glad they don't rewrite it every 2 yeras 08:11:11 granted 08:11:17 it seems like a weird thing to commit to, though 08:17:14 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:23:01 `slist just now 08:23:06 slist just now: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:26:40 our nuclear power plants are 100% agile, we use node.js and scrum methodology 08:27:46 kmc no ;_; 08:30:59 -!- comex has joined. 08:32:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:35:07 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 09:06:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:11:56 Help I think I'm building GHC as a stress relief 09:12:34 No! I must stop! 09:12:46 * Taneb breathes 09:18:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:19:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:19:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:20:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Client Quit). 09:21:34 Taneb: how does building GHC relieve stress? 09:21:55 olsner, I realised it doesn't, so I stopped 09:22:06 ah, makes sense 09:57:25 -!- cpressey has joined. 10:03:59 https://github.com/aardappel 10:04:22 http://catseye.tc/node/The%20Aesthetics%20of%20Esolangs.html 10:06:02 and i haven't heard anything more from jsvine so i'll assume he didn't get anything publishable out of the interview. but i'll ask him if he's willing to contribute his befunge program to the examples archive. 10:08:06 @tell zzo38 hey, i see your Please Porige Hot page is 403 forbidden. it would make me really happy if it was not forbidden! 10:08:07 Consider it noted. 10:11:04 @tell oerjan well then *i* flubbed. 10:11:05 Consider it noted. 10:12:08 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:16:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:16:33 -!- glogbot has joined. 10:16:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:16:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:17:30 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:18:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:18:15 -!- ion has joined. 10:57:36 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 10:59:07 -!- benuphoenix has joined. 10:59:39 hi 10:59:46 hi 11:00:38 * benuphoenix thinks it is cool that he is running Xubuntu 13.04 (installed from a 12.10 stick and immediately upgraded) on an 8gb class-6 sdhc card. 11:02:27 so, could someone point me to a page with the brainf*ck language info? 11:02:27 yeah that happens 11:02:32 oh uh 11:02:38 info? 11:02:59 like, commands 11:03:08 try http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck 11:05:44 thanks 11:12:51 * benuphoenix thought bf would make little sense. instead, he found that unlambda makes it look normal. 11:14:10 they're both pretty normal.. what makes little sense is the hype around bf 11:14:55 it's the name 11:16:05 mnoqy: unlambda isn't very normal 11:16:13 have you seen the details of d and c 11:16:27 d is very not normal 11:16:29 i forget what d is like but i know c 11:17:19 i guess c isnt "normal".. 11:17:27 http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/#delay 11:18:13 ah 11:18:24 dang evaluation order tricks 11:19:14 thank you Taneb 11:22:17 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:28:15 No problem, Sgeo 11:34:22 "and F evaluates to d (for example when F is d)" 11:34:23 cute 11:35:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:35:28 -!- benuphoenix has left ("Leaving"). 11:36:32 BUT WHEN F IS NOT d! 11:36:41 F shall NEVER evaluate to d! 11:36:43 Hahahaha! 11:36:49 fuck 11:36:53 what happened to taneb 11:37:23 Phantom_Hoover, I'm a bit stressed with exams 11:37:33 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:38:00 which exams 11:38:46 -!- augur has joined. 11:43:24 whoah 11:43:35 system shock 2 comes with a manual 11:44:31 A-levels 11:44:35 I've got two exams left 11:44:42 which exams 11:49:28 A-levels, he already said that 11:49:41 which two a-levels! 11:57:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:58:16 Phantom_Hoover: the last two 11:58:25 oh 11:58:42 no, three! 11:58:54 you can get a-levels in dance 11:58:59 i'll say no more 12:05:01 -!- oerjan has left. 12:05:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:05:27 wrong window :( 12:07:05 hi oerjan 12:08:03 F shall NEVER evaluate to d! <-- SORRY INCORRECT HTH 12:10:48 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ <-- for a fraction of a second i read that as php, fortunately i realized before completely panicking 12:13:50 that's enough logs for today 12:24:03 -!- carado has joined. 12:25:50 elliott: um right, hi 12:26:05 hi 12:26:09 hi 12:27:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:29:59 if ais523 doesn't replace the featured langauge soon I will have no choice but to admin oerjan and tell him to do it. 12:30:09 admin me 12:30:22 elliott: but I'm concentrating on other things 12:30:58 ais523: tell that to oerjan!! 12:31:32 but i have a back ache :( 12:31:57 probably shouldn't be on the computer at all 12:38:10 make an esolang based on back ache, hth 12:41:17 a dialect of lifescript, i take 12:41:23 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:54:44 -!- olsner has joined. 12:57:47 Taneb: do _you_ understand today's lightning made of owls? :/ 12:58:24 No, I do not 12:58:53 good, good 13:03:35 how's the hexham weather 13:03:44 Warnm 13:05:03 its very warnm in hexham right now yes 13:05:12 is that like the temperature of doom 13:11:22 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:11:25 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:13:29 notice how Warnm backwards is mnraW 13:13:40 Which is like MN raw 13:13:47 What is MN? Nobody knows 13:13:48 as raw as minnesota 13:14:04 What is MN? elliott knows 13:14:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:15:03 elliott 13:15:07 buy system shock 2 13:15:11 i'm not playing it alone 13:16:00 iaaven't even played system shock 1 13:16:02 except maybe i did once 13:16:15 or maybe it was 2 13:16:18 you don't need to play system shock 1 13:16:29 aiui it has aged awfully 13:16:54 sort of like you 13:17:13 sort of like your mum 13:27:00 -!- olsner has joined. 13:29:16 -!- olsner has quit (Client Quit). 13:35:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_nonsense cute 13:37:41 * oerjan chases nooodl through a diagram with the swatter -----### 13:37:52 oerjan: the daily commute? 13:38:11 elliott :') 13:38:14 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 14:03:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:06:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:59 -!- augur has joined. 14:12:53 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:24:44 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:27:17 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:36:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:36:38 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:39:14 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 14:43:07 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:48:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:48:27 -!- augur has joined. 14:52:08 -!- carado has joined. 14:52:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:06:49 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:14:03 -!- olsner has joined. 15:20:45 -!- augur has joined. 15:39:10 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:18 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 15:41:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 15:44:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:49:30 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 15:50:26 -!- tertu has joined. 15:52:43 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:53:15 -!- Bike has joined. 15:53:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:54:02 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:56:30 so apparently all the results in the DLP paper rely on heuristics 15:57:13 "People talk as they ride bicycles - at a rush - without pausing to consider their surroundings." 16:02:45 http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/portable-devices/echolocation-by-smartphone-possible wow 16:11:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:12:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:12:28 oklopol: what's DLP? 16:12:57 discrete logarithm problem 16:13:07 aha 16:13:33 yeah, the paper shachaf and kmc were talking about is heuristastic. 16:14:04 somehow i've forgot to check the box to reconnect the wireless automatically, i hope this will improve things 16:14:25 (not doing it, that is) 16:14:52 not forgetting, or not checking the box? 16:16:15 dammit 16:16:50 * oerjan buries olsner under an avalanche of iterated negations 16:17:15 nooooooooooo 16:26:06 exactly! 16:26:33 now pizza 16:26:51 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:29:10 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:29:12 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:58:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:00:38 -!- Bike has joined. 17:01:13 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:27:32 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:37:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:54 -!- conehead has joined. 17:41:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:46:44 -!- guestbot has joined. 17:47:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:55:42 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:58:23 -!- lambdabot has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:00:08 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 18:00:08 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 18:00:09 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 18:00:23 -!- EgoBot has joined. 18:02:36 -!- oscarrio has joined. 18:02:42 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:08:20 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 18:15:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:19:15 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:42:49 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 18:48:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:54:06 -!- oscarrio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:55:25 -!- hiato has joined. 18:57:48 Hi guys :) 18:58:09 hi 18:58:14 `welcome hiato 18:58:17 hiato: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:58:38 kmc: why you gotta use the only boring welcome 18:58:40 `relcome hiato 18:58:43 ​hiato: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:58:53 heh, hey elliott 18:59:23 Wow, so I haven't been here for a very, very long time. 18:59:32 It was making me sad, really. 18:59:39 i remember you!! 18:59:44 * hiato thinks u gaiz are the best 18:59:48 hiato's hiatus 18:59:51 elliott: ;) 19:00:03 quintopia: :P 19:00:23 Yep, I was here when I was a young one, which would have made elliott a toddler practically 19:00:31 well, it's all relative I suppose 19:00:34 re-welcome hiato! 19:00:46 i don't remember hiato 19:00:56 now i am an old man 19:00:59 ais523: Heh, why thank you :) I still remember that time you helped me with my silly maths homework 19:01:16 Phantom_Hoover: oh, but I remember you 19:01:41 I don't remember 19:02:01 olsner: I'm not *that* memorable. 19:02:27 that's ok, not everyone has to be memorable 19:02:32 wb ais523 19:02:39 i remember you because you used fucking delphi or whatever 19:02:43 I think I was here mostly around 2007/8 or so 19:02:44 like some kind of alien 19:02:55 ok i remember you for other reasons too 19:02:58 but that's like #1 or #2 19:03:01 elliott: haha, yeah, that was all I knew at that stage. 19:03:03 `quote hiato 19:03:04 "also used snobol" 19:03:05 No output. 19:03:05 I remember hiato for the electricity rationing 19:03:15 I hope that's got better, at least 19:03:26 i remember that too 19:03:51 ais523: oh, wow, I don't even remember telling you about it. Well, nope, not really. At least, it's winter now and there hasn't been one for some time, but I suppose it was at it's worst back then 19:03:52 where's hiato from? 19:03:55 .za? 19:03:57 Phantom_Hoover: South Africa 19:04:01 ahhhh 19:04:51 I guess it would be rather silly of me to ask, but I'll try anyway: what's been happening? 19:05:07 not a lot, sadly, esolang development's been kind-of slow 19:05:13 the channel got interviewed by a WSJ reporter for some reason 19:05:17 yeah, that was fun 19:05:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etbcKWEKnvg wow good 19:05:20 i took over the world and a guy from the wall street journal interviewed cpressey over irc and made hexham jokes 19:05:22 I checked back on the wiki recently and it's exploded in size since I remember it 19:05:24 also we grouped together to make Radixal!!!! 19:05:28 and additionally someone else came here from hexham, completely randomly 19:05:32 elliott: what, seriously? 19:05:41 ais523: what the fuck 19:05:42 how many times 19:05:43 nice, that's pretty awesome! Gar, I missed a channel interview 19:05:46 have you forgotten that taneb is from hexham 19:05:53 it's not even funny any more 19:05:53 elliott: no, I thought you meant someone beyond taneb 19:05:55 oh 19:05:57 no i meant taneb 19:06:13 maybe hiato wasn't there for the "hexham craze" 19:06:17 were "hexham jokes" even a thing before taneb turned out to also be yeah 19:06:27 elliott: hexham craze? 19:06:30 well when I first knew elliott he didn't even live in hexham 19:06:31 `pastelogs Hexham 19:06:37 internet-knew 19:06:39 oh, I thought we already had a third hexham 19:06:42 so obviously there couldn't be hexham jokes then 19:06:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5982 19:06:48 not sure who, but someone 19:06:53 is "hexham" what you call a person from hexham. 19:06:54 ais523: so haha, I though you were excited about radixal. It turns out the !!! is part of the name. 19:06:55 that's p. good 19:06:55 when was The Hexham Epiphany again 19:07:04 hiato: four exclamation marks 19:07:11 we chose that because we thought three was the highest justifiable value 19:07:17 whoops, wouldn't want to understate it 19:07:18 it's just that radix 19:07:35 ais523: er 19:07:37 ah, 2011-07-16 19:07:40 you first knew me in 2007 right 19:07:42 I was in hexham then 19:07:46 elliott: not sure 19:07:51 I was in hexham in 2004 19:08:00 elliott: yeah, you were going to move iirc 19:08:03 I seem to remember you living in a hamlet near hexham with a name nobody could remember 19:08:04 hiato: I live in hexham which is a pretty small rural down (pop. like 11k) 19:08:13 hiato, http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-16#160048PhantomHoover 19:08:20 ignore elliott, this is a much funnier way to find out 19:08:24 hexham lite 19:08:40 context for Phantom_Hoover's link: he previously mentioned living in northumberland 19:08:43 (hexham is in northumberland) 19:08:50 and then oerjan joked that taneb would turn out to be my next-door neighbour. 19:08:57 (note: northumberland is a lot bigger than hexham) 19:09:13 why was taneb's line a clue for ph to jump to that conclusion though 19:09:31 "he's this kid who refused to meet me a few weeks ago" the plot thickens 19:09:37 was it just the "my town" 19:09:39 nooodl: because elliott "famously" came from hexham 19:09:45 nooodl, because he made it clear he lived in a tiny shithole of a town 19:09:50 in northumberland 19:09:53 right, ok, reading now 19:09:54 hmm yeah 19:09:55 nooodl: divine inspiration 19:09:55 hexham fits all these criteria 19:10:10 Hexham is awesome though 19:10:13 We've got a field 19:10:16 pretty sure jesus just came down from the heavens and pushed the knowledge into Phantom_Hoover's head 19:10:20 i fucking love fields 19:10:22 and an abbey! 19:10:26 don't forget your abbety 19:10:28 *abbey 19:10:36 hey that reminds me of A Thing 19:10:53 the school i'm enrolled in it super hilly, to the extent that there's a place called Johnson Flats, which is not flat and is on a hill 19:11:04 positively british naming sense, i must say 19:11:15 16:09:37: -!- monqy has joined #esoteric. 19:11:18 Birmingham has lots and lots of little hills 19:11:19 this log is gonna get good 19:11:24 to the extent that horizontal flat land is rare 19:11:38 although there are few hills that impress people who come from, say, Sheffield 19:11:59 my favourite example: there's a car park that you can enter at ground level, go up 8 floors, and come out at ground level 19:12:08 sweet 19:12:10 edinburgh has a bunch of hills 19:12:34 nooodl: no it gets bad shortly afterwards 19:12:36 there's a wp article on "the seven hills of edinburgh" which lists a bunch of sets of seven hills people call "the seven hills of edinburgh" 19:12:37 it's great 19:12:38 because cheater starts talking 19:12:43 "16:18:15: that proves nothing, you could've edited every school's wp page at that time." 19:12:43 I forgot my user page redirects to High Middle Ages 19:12:44 Haha, ok, so that is hilarious! :D Why would oklopol give Phantom_Hoover such a hard time about this? 19:12:47 oklopol... 19:12:58 As in, I can't remember it ever having redirected there 19:13:05 wasn't it taneb who was given a hard time... 19:13:05 Why would I do that 19:13:17 elliott: yes, by oklopol ? 19:13:30 ok but you said Phantom_Hoover!! 19:13:37 elliott: whoops, yes, Taneb 19:13:49 My next door neighbours are Mr Snowdon and the Bradshaws! 19:13:58 They still are 19:14:19 huh, oko was explaining path-connectedness to me? 19:14:33 oh wait 19:14:43 oerjan made the neighbour prediction before taneb said he lived in northumberland 19:15:12 I think tswett is the one I keep expecting to live in hexham but never does 19:15:26 he lives in australia you idiot 19:15:31 Doesn't tswett live in Finland/Australia/Antarctica 19:15:32 I cannot think of a way to prove that I am in Hexham -- this conversation is incredible 19:16:25 Taneb: wow, you really wanted to prove this 19:16:46 i also like how the discussion of topological connectedness is interposed with iti saying some shit about vectors 19:17:16 I found list of spells of D&D game including "Explosive Familiar" it makes the caster's familiar explosive, and "Feign Invisibility" which causes others to believe the caster is invisible even though they can clearly see the caster, they must think they can see him somehow even if he is invisible. 19:17:26 are you zzo38 19:17:37 i just saw that and thought it was funny. 19:17:44 Bike, it makes them think they can see through invisibility spells 19:17:45 duh 19:17:52 elliott: it's a literal quote from zzo38 19:17:54 could be useful 19:18:05 who's itidus20 btw 19:18:07 oh my god this was 19:18:12 `? itidus20 19:18:14 itidus20's entry has been censored. 19:18:15 the same day?? 19:18:19 18:09:09: I will stand next to the abbey in site of the Hexham Courant Webcam for a while with a sign saying "I AM TANEB" 19:18:20 `? itidus21 19:18:21 `? itidus22 19:18:22 itidus21 just made some instant coffee. 19:18:22 18:09:12: But not today 19:18:23 Taneb: you still have to do this 19:18:23 itidus22? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:18:32 `? itidus19 19:18:34 itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly 19:18:44 elliott, I know 19:18:46 "some day, maybe next Friday" 19:18:58 hiato, are you up to speed on the channel in-jokes yet 19:19:03 elliott: he'll show up at your house with a sign that says "I AM TANEB AND I LUV U" 19:19:08 Phantom_Hoover: I'm getting there :P 19:19:17 i luv u 2, Taneb 19:19:17 * ais523 keeps quiet 19:19:32 speaking of channel in-jokes 19:19:33 ais523: op me 19:19:36 bleh, now I'm going to have to ask zzo38 what overmate is 19:19:39 elliott: I did 19:19:51 i mean the other kind of op me 19:20:37 which kind of op me is that? 19:20:46 the one where you do it via /msg chanserv access! 19:20:53 22:07:05: I got famous last year for wearing a dressing gown and joining a political organization 19:21:03 this log is so good 19:21:04 nooodl, that is a true story 19:21:15 Except it is no longer last year 19:21:19 It is like ages ago 19:21:20 famous enough for elliott to see it and provide independent confirmation of it? 19:21:23 Taneb: you are an endless source of amazing quotes 19:21:32 Yup 19:21:55 fuck you Taneb 19:22:02 my claim to fame is wounding a man with a spoon 19:22:22 you did? 19:22:29 hiato: I have to be careful when reading the entire quotes database 19:22:35 sometimes I can't breathe I laugh so much 19:22:36 anyway 19:22:39 `pastequotes Taneb 19:22:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17667 19:22:45 you can do that for anyone in here :) 19:23:00 `pastequotes hiato 19:23:06 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27697 19:23:19 yeah, I think that functionality was implemented sometime after me 19:23:22 oh, wait 19:23:34 yeah, there aren't any hiato quotes in the list 19:23:35 yeah, it's blank 19:23:37 because nobody's added any 19:23:54 oh, Taneb used to be called Ngevd 19:24:14 yeah, I don't recall this being a feature. In any event, I will continue to read Taneb quotes and that log because you sir, are amazing 19:24:25 I'm not that great 19:24:25 I remember Ngevd, yeah, I think. 19:24:40 i keep forgetting when i joined #esoteric 19:24:40 `? ngevd 19:24:42 (i'm looking it up) 19:24:49 6TxB%JE"d*@_&k@KC\< 19:24:53 Taneb: as ais523 described, I had to literally stop reading to allow for breathing 19:24:55 `seen hiato 19:24:56 oh wait 19:24:57 that wont work 19:24:59 2013-06-19 19:24:53: Taneb: as ais523 described, I had to literally stop reading to allow for breathing 19:25:00 fr pastseen 19:25:33 oh wow cool 19:25:35 2012-10-21.txt:02:40:28: nooodl: 1, 1, …? Everyone knows the Fibonacci sequence begins with 89, -55. 19:25:36 2012-10-31.txt:00:36:49: -!- nooodl has joined #esoteric. 19:25:51 `pastequotes Ngevd 19:25:57 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30517 19:26:33 We haven't told hiato about Facekicker 19:26:57 please, I don't know that I can handle more hilarious logs this evening 19:27:03 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:27:19 @time hiato 19:27:20 Local time for hiato is Wed Jun 19 21:22:20 2013 19:27:29 is south africa really utc+1 19:27:30 weiiiird 19:27:34 or uh maybe it's bst 19:27:36 so that would be utc+2 19:27:46 elliott: yeah, GMT+2 19:28:00 shouldn't you be on winter time/standard time/non-summer time now though? 19:28:02 elliott, should we tell hiato about Facekicker 19:28:20 Taneb: that is up to you 19:28:31 olsner: it's june! 19:28:32 olsner: in this country, the government saves energy by randomly shutting off power to suburbs. No need for pesky daylight savings. 19:28:34 But I can't tell it in a funny way! 19:28:40 hiato: aah, clever 19:28:51 sounds more reliably energy saving too 19:29:07 olsner: 100% energy saved on grids, gauranteed! 19:29:18 south africa sounds like a weird place 19:29:28 hiato, basically, for a few hours I thought elliott kicked one of my friends in the face but it turned out to be a different Elliott Hird 19:29:32 elliott: you should see what it /looks/ like then 19:29:41 Taneb: lolwut 19:29:42 they say daylight savings time saves like 1% of power, but I think that was before they invented air conditioning 19:30:03 Taneb: How many Elliotts are there in Hexham? 19:30:08 ais523: i see how it is 19:30:12 hiato, I can think of three 19:30:18 Taneb: haha, wow 19:30:31 elliott: why would it be summertime in winter? 19:30:32 Nobody knows what happened to Facekicker for the past 8 years, though 19:30:55 hiato, Hexham's got almost 12000 people. That's like 0.025% 19:30:57 Taneb: also, what on earth leads someone to kick someone else in the face? Was the guy kicking really flexible, or suffering giantism? 19:31:00 actually, "it turned out to be a different Elliott Hird" is almost as weird as the multiple-hexhamites thing 19:31:06 hiato, he was standing on a table 19:31:15 Taneb: ah, makes more sense now 19:31:19 i've never even hird of the surname "hird" before this channel 19:31:23 ais523: i'm still dubious 19:31:29 i seriously doubt there are other elliott hirds 19:31:33 probably it was actually me 19:31:34 this channel is home to the most ridiculous Hexham-centred stories I have ever heard 19:31:37 *hird 19:31:40 One of my friends went to first school with someone called Elliott Hird 19:32:07 In a small village close to Hexham but closer to Prudhoe 19:32:13 hiato: well hexham-centered stories aren't very common 19:32:19 ais523: oh, wait, I completely missed the "different" 19:32:20 i think every man in hexham that none of us has met yet is called elliott hird 19:32:24 wow, ok, now this story is ridiculous 19:32:33 I didn't realise elliott 's surname was also Hird 19:33:08 it's not even like it's that common a name 19:33:12 elliott: are you suuuure you never kicked anyone in the face 19:33:28 if you google elliott hird it's a mix of elliott and a kitchen planner 19:33:29 nooodl: i probably have 19:33:31 P.S. maybe you're related and it's just another elliott in the Hird family 19:33:38 (and there I was thinking facekicker would be some sort of in joke about a facebook derivative or some such) 19:33:42 elliott, idk, kicking people in the face is q. hard 19:33:50 i think i got kicked in the face once 19:34:05 what if the victim is lying down? 19:34:10 well 19:34:13 actually i don't remember 19:34:17 elliott: you deserved it for kicking someone in the face though 19:34:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:34:18 Facekicker was standing on a table 19:34:18 i think that's why one of my teeth is chipped at least 19:34:27 no wait 19:34:33 that one was from walking into the glass 19:34:34 maybe the story is the wrong way around and Taneb's friend kicked elliott 19:34:43 Taneb: Facekicker <---> Kingslayer. Any connection in naming scheme? 19:34:52 oh i mixed up getting a hole in my head with chipping my tooth i think 19:34:53 yes 19:35:02 in that they both consist of a thing and then what they did to that thing 19:35:12 Phantom_Hoover: why thank you 19:36:28 elliott: yikes are you even still alive 19:36:56 how did you get a hole in your head 19:37:03 p. sure you can't get that from kicking 19:37:13 nooodl: no 19:37:21 Phantom_Hoover: i fell on some toy thing when i was young 19:37:27 when i say hole i mean 19:37:28 Phantom_Hoover, trepanation 19:37:32 it was incredibly tiny 19:37:35 I have a number of holes in my head. 19:37:37 all i know is they put some kind of glue thing on it 19:37:37 was this toy a big metal spike 19:37:40 and then it repaired itself 19:37:41 ais523: so radixal!!!! looks kinda cool, nice job 19:37:50 this reminds me of a good childhood story when i was like 11 19:37:55 hiato: thanks 19:37:59 elliott, I had something similar, but it was a bridge 19:38:00 and i was really pissed about something, i don't remember what it was 19:38:08 and i decided to solve my anger issues by kicking something 19:38:17 but the closest thing was a stone wall 19:38:22 i once pushed my sister into a drawer or something by accident 19:38:33 and then my mum had to staple her head back together 19:38:46 hmm, i may be making myself sound like a psychopath here 19:38:50 Phantom_Hoover: yes :( 19:38:59 me too though 19:39:24 Phantom_Hoover, for at least two generations in my family, the elder brother has pushed the second brother off a bed, causing a permanent scar 19:39:30 Phantom_Hoover: but at least you're not the one who stapled your sister's head? 19:39:33 anyway it's more embarrassing/haunting than it sounds; why did i kick a fucking wall? what was wrong with me 19:39:43 well she used a medical stapler 19:40:24 "medical staplers" look very badass thanks google 19:40:28 When you injure someone with an object, you can always say “well, it was a medical $foo” 19:40:39 What's that song that goes "Doo, dee, do-doo; Doo, dee, do-da"? 19:40:57 taneb: Meshuggah – Bleed 19:41:06 Thanks 19:42:12 Medical stapler http://youtu.be/baNBRs_Wafs 19:42:20 while drunk 19:42:58 “Haiers Medical-Circular Stapler For Rectal Prolapse And Hemorrhoids.wmv” /me refrains from clicking 19:43:27 good choice 19:44:21 Yes, i’m pretty happy about it. 19:50:34 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 20:10:37 trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn trrndn 20:12:15 Taneb: I do live in F/A/A, yes. 20:12:26 Totally called it 20:13:36 Once I start a business I might release some information on internet, such as telephone 20:13:44 is this business up and running? 20:13:50 oh he's not here. 20:14:58 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:15:47 `welcome Tritonio 20:15:49 Tritonio: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:16:15 i want to know about zzo38's business as well 20:16:27 zzology 20:17:14 kmc: given that it's zzo38, that line does not imply that he's planning to start a business 20:17:19 just that, if he did, that's what he might do afterwars 20:17:22 *afterwards 20:17:28 true 20:21:56 `pastequotes kmc 20:22:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8517 20:22:15 cocks 20:22:51 always with the cocks 20:23:14 oh, kmc was well quoted 20:23:33 i thought you couldn't have those in (sub)urban areas 20:24:44 Gregoooooooor 20:24:47 fix your encoding header 20:25:19 the pokémon theme 20:25:42 kmc: well IRC doesn't have a sane encoding 20:25:51 ok but this channel uses UTF-8 by convention 20:25:56 the default is "UTF-8 if the line happens to be UTF-8, otherwise Latin-1" 20:26:09 but that's a bad default 20:26:23 utf-8 is the good default 20:26:27 Bike: was that UTF-8 or Latin-1? 20:26:32 op campaign: I would kick anyone who didn't use utf-8 except oklopol 20:26:41 there is no code but unicode and utf-8 is its transport 20:26:41 UTF-8 is good 20:26:47 㑖 20:26:55 i still don't know what i use 20:27:02 ♫ domain name system ♫ 20:27:11 ♫ 20:27:12 `run echo é | iconv -t iso8859-1 20:27:14 ​ 20:27:24 kmc: ok good I'm in utf-8 20:27:27 i changed my irc client because i just couldn't get mirc to work, but i doubt i'm using utf8 now either 20:27:29 � 20:27:33 That's what I saw 20:27:37 Unterbrechung während des Betriebssystemaufrufs 20:27:37 A question thing 20:27:37 to work = to use utf8 20:27:50 Tmux doesn't do iso8859-1 20:28:00 oklopol: so far you are, but only the lowest 128 codepoints hth 20:28:03 "wait isn't kmc the guy who runs that one pizza shop and night club and used to be a programmer" 20:28:13 joo jöö 20:28:20 "Betriebssystemaufrufs" is kind of an awesome word for "syscall" 20:28:28 but i bet actual german haxors just say "die Syscall" 20:28:35 German has wonderful words 20:29:08 Rindfleischetikettierungsuberwachungsaufgabenubertragungsgesetz! 20:30:12 gesundheit 20:31:27 " on a related idea. i had this idea of a game of life sort of thing which makes connected clusters of dots have a mass and hence a gravity and to affect each other" <<< can i steal this idea and try to do something cool with it next week? 20:31:34 beef something 20:31:40 oh that's where that idea came from 20:31:45 Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft 20:31:56 `pastequotes bike 20:32:00 we almost wrote an article on that :P 20:32:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28416 20:32:02 wanna see if the encoding fixed on this somehow. 20:32:09 nnnnnope 20:32:44 why does ^B make it download 20:33:05 (we made a CA where there's a special state * such that if there are finitely many * then they group together) 20:33:26 oklopol: hmm, interesting 20:33:28 that's not really a CA any more 20:33:33 it's definitely some sort of automaton, though 20:33:49 my definition of a CA is that it's shift-commuting and continuous 20:34:03 this is a property that a CA may or may not have 20:34:06 not a new definition 20:34:38 and we found a CA with such a property, a CA such that one of the states has this curious property 20:34:44 `pastequotes Bike 20:34:49 is it simple? 20:34:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5095 20:34:54 what is the rule? 20:34:59 which was the multiocular O of countries? 20:35:01 oklopol: oh, right 20:35:04 oh, liechtenstein 20:35:07 it's very simple if the configuration is 0-finite 20:35:10 for some reason I thought you had a CA where if you had consecutive * on the tape 20:35:16 (has a finite amount of non-0 cells) 20:35:18 some of them just vanished, shrinking the tape to match 20:35:55 you can have states 0, 1 and *, and 1's spread left and down, forming a quarterplane full of 1s, and the *s move northeast on it 20:36:01 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: too cold to function). 20:36:06 they reach the northeast corner and then they are grouped 20:36:21 oh, 2-D CA? 20:36:27 I assume 1D unless someone states otherwise 20:36:34 but this can be cheated to not work if there's an infinite amount of 1 20:36:35 oh sorry 20:36:47 well it's strictly easier in 1d 20:36:53 ais523: i assume the opposite 20:36:54 but that works much the same in any number of dimensions 20:37:01 quintopia: I even made a 1D Sokoban 20:37:16 most of our stuff is in 1d, but this one was kind of boring in 1d 20:37:19 basically because the Enigma advertised them as an April Fool's joke, so I thought I'd make one 20:37:20 ais523: sounds really easy 20:37:25 quintopia: well it had a bunch of teleporters 20:37:37 dunno if it's very interesting in 2d either, and i don't think we'll even try to publish it 20:37:37 that opened and closed on a timer so you could choose not to use them if you wanted to 20:38:02 oh 20:38:09 that makes it interesting 20:38:40 Hmm 20:39:22 oklopol: what happens to the * that are northeast of all 1s? 20:39:37 oh 1s start spreading from them 20:39:41 What would a CA look like that was on Sierpinski carpet 20:39:45 Would that even work 20:39:53 s/carpet/triangle/ 20:40:08 oh 20:40:31 Taneb: those are some of the most common patterns for random CAs to generate, beyond the boring ones 20:40:45 ais523, I mean on one 20:40:46 you can get sierpinski in life easily 20:40:51 Instead of on a plane or line 20:41:57 " there's a local rule that tells you what changes are legal. now, to every sequence s in {"E", "U"}^N partitions S^Z we get a subset of points from which the game goes on forever, say for EUEUEUEU... this means from x, for some choice of new cell values by E, for any choice of any cell by U, for some choice of..." 20:41:57 erm 20:42:06 this sounds like our newest article 20:42:52 is this an actual log for one day of ircing or is this a collection of stuff that SHAPED MY LIFE 20:43:34 it actually turned out that the sequence where the game goes on forever is itself a sofic shift if you start with one 20:43:37 `addquote is this an actual log for one day of ircing or is this a collection of stuff that SHAPED MY LIFE 20:43:42 1055) is this an actual log for one day of ircing or is this a collection of stuff that SHAPED MY LIFE 20:43:45 which is cool 20:43:50 if you care about sofic shifts 20:44:05 great to find out that oklopol is sad enough that his entire life is contained in statements about cellular automata from one single day!!!! 20:44:13 one day you'll run out of stuff from that log 20:44:16 and you'll have no ideas ever again 20:44:27 well i also started smoking that day 20:46:44 do you still smoke? I hear that stuff's bad for you 20:47:21 sometimes 20:47:22 what do you smoke 20:47:31 well you know tobacco 20:50:37 `pastequotes oklopol 20:50:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10951 20:51:07 lol suddenly i start proving theorems of basic topology 20:51:25 -!- guestbot has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:52:09 clue is a language for beauty, not usefulness or ability to run at all ability to run at all is not even close to a design goal, no 20:52:14 i should make a better clue 20:52:15 mmmm clue 20:54:06 (for instance all metric spaces are hausdorff and all bounded metric spaces are compact) <-- BZZZT WRONG. *complete, totally bounded 20:54:10 haha ownd 20:56:59 finally finished 21:00:55 <`^_^v> which of these textbooks should i read next? Types and Programming Languages, Syntax and Semantics of Programming Languages, An Introduction to Database Systems, AI: A Modern Approach, Introduction to Automata Theory, Basic Category Theory for Computer Scientists, Virtual Machines 21:01:15 three men in a boat 21:01:30 `pastelogs `^_^v 21:01:34 TaPL and Programming Languages 21:01:35 of those i've only read TaPL but it's good so, TaPL 21:01:42 star smashers of the galaxy rangers 21:01:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17514 21:02:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:12:41 `pastelogs \`\^\_\`\v 21:12:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29447 21:13:42 <`^_^v> dont escape me bro 21:14:25 `pastelogs [`]\^[_]\^[v] 21:14:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6438 21:15:12 wow it worked 21:15:53 did Phantom_Hoover awaken `^_^v 21:24:38 http://www.theonion.com/articles/wikipedia-users-surprised-nobodys-made-page-for-jo,31815/ 21:27:24 yo 21:27:48 what the FUCK Gregor doesn't have VOICE 21:28:23 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 21:47:15 that wasn't me that time 21:47:20 I think I know woh it was though 21:47:22 *who 21:47:33 hmm… I have a sequence that starts 1, 3, 6, and the next element is at least 10 21:47:53 however it isn't the triangular numbers, because I have a lower bound on it that's O(2^(n/2)) 21:56:21 @oeis 1 3 6 21:56:27 wait 21:56:30 Triangular numbers: a(n) = C(n+1,2) = n(n+1)/2 = 0+1+2+...+n.[0,1,3,6,10,15,... 21:56:55 good effort. 21:57:18 ais523, http://oeis.org/A006128? 21:57:28 http://oeis.org/A003945? 21:57:39 http://oeis.org/A005043? 21:57:42 that first one sure doesn't look exponential. 21:57:52 mm 21:58:04 surely someone's written a better oeis search tool by now 21:58:07 oh, I have a lower bound of 20 on the fifth element too 21:58:28 also, it's bounded above by 2^n-1, and by 2^n-2 for all the elements but the first two 21:59:12 so it's not 5043, that breaks the upper bound 22:02:25 it's quite an annoying problem to determine elements, I was thinking about it in my head for hours last night 22:02:36 perhaps I should write a computer program to brute-force the first few elements 22:02:46 so 22:02:47 what is it 22:03:01 so basically, you want to construct a directed graph 22:03:10 where each vertex has two edges going out from it 22:03:33 and where you can get from any vertex to any other vertex, going only forwards along edges, in n steps 22:03:52 and the question is, what's the largest number of vertices you can have in such a graph, for a given n 22:03:57 obviously if n=0 you can only have one vertex 22:03:57 n being a property of the graph? 22:04:03 no, n is given 22:04:21 and you have to find the largest graph such that you can get from any vertex to any other vertex along a path of length n 22:04:29 where each vertex only has two edges leaving it 22:04:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:04:43 for n=1, you can have three vertices, joined in both directions in a triangle 22:05:35 for n=2, you have ABCADADFCFEBED = six vertices 22:05:44 (7 can be proved impossible) 22:06:40 for n=3, the best I've found is ABCDEAFAFJEJIDIHCHGBGF 22:06:40 ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_diameter_problem ? 22:06:41 but what about eight 22:07:00 This doesn't mention direcctedness, though. 22:07:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:29 elliott: well 7 being impossible doesn't imply 8 being impossible, but you can label each edge as being A or B so that one A-edge and one B-edge comes from each vertex 22:07:44 then from any given vertex there are only 7 possible paths: (no movement), A, B, AA, AB, BA, BB 22:07:50 the first leads to the vertex itself 22:07:54 i like how graph theory has so many stupid words that there's a "glossary of graph theory" wikipedia article. 22:07:56 so there can be at most 6 other vertices 22:07:59 = 8+ is impossible 22:09:28 i think finding wikipedia articles may be the most useful skill i have 22:09:51 ais523: why is 7 impossible? 22:10:09 coppro: OK, so imagine you have a solution to 7 22:10:17 then pick any vertex, it doesn't matter which 22:10:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_the_largest_known_graphs_of_a_given_diameter_and_maximal_degree implies that this is a pretty hard problem 22:10:31 your 6 other vertices are reachable via A, B, AA, AB, BA, BB 22:10:48 now, consider the paths from A to the other vertices 22:10:50 alt. a problem nobody cares about. 22:11:24 obviously, AA and AB are the directly reachable vertices, so the other four (B, BA, BB, and 0) must be AAA, AAB, ABA, ABB in some order 22:11:40 if you like graphs and numbers and shit you might like http://adventure.cueup.com ? or maybe not, whatever. it's all right 22:11:44 without loss of generality assume that AAA = 0 22:12:18 now AAB can't be B or you'd have AAAB = AAB, which means you can't reach all 7 vertices from AA 22:12:49 and if ABA or ABB is B, then you're stuck with the other one being either BA or BB, which gives a similar contradiction 22:13:17 hmm… for n=3, the best I've found is ABCDEAFAFJEJIDIHCHGBGF ← the eodermdrome representation of graphs is surprisingly useful 22:14:28 How do you do arbitrary directed graphs in eodermdrome representation? 22:14:44 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:15:28 fizzie: you can't 22:15:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:15:33 Aw. 22:15:40 but it works for any graph where any vertex is accessible from any of the others 22:15:42 (or any but one) 22:15:45 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:16:18 http://inkfish.fieldofscience.com/2013/06/moths-wait-until-bats-lock-on-then-jam.html "Moths Wait until Bats Lock On, Then Jam Their Sonar" 22:16:25 doesnt that mean "strongly connected" ais523 22:16:35 i'm starting to think i could formulate a cheeky aphorism. anything humans have done, animals have evolved at some point 22:16:43 except wheels 22:16:44 quintopia: not sure how strongly connected works with directed graphs, but probably 22:16:54 kmc: flagella!! 22:16:58 kind of 22:17:05 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:17:09 its either strongly or weakly 22:17:14 i forgot the difference 22:17:21 but its on the digraph wiki page 22:17:42 "A directed graph is called strongly connected if there is a path from each vertex in the graph to every other vertex." (I had it open.) 22:17:48 (For obvious reasons.) 22:18:08 what does weakly connected mean? Oh, I guess for an undirected graph, the two are the same? 22:18:09 Bike: what abour irc 22:18:11 t 22:18:18 Fiora: The underlying undirected graph is connected. 22:18:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:39 ahhh 22:18:57 and "tournament" means "the underlying undirected graph is complete" iirc 22:19:02 elliott: mycorrhizal networks hth 22:19:30 Bike: what about biologists 22:19:31 yep 22:19:33 too awful to evolve 22:19:45 fizzie: that's a weird definition. with the graph A -> B <- C, A and C are not connected at all and yet the graph would be weakly connected? 22:19:52 found another mushroom in my yard 22:19:59 was it on #esoteric 22:20:00 #drugz 22:20:06 Koen_: See, there's still lines between them. 22:20:12 yeah ok 22:20:12 kmc: exactly 22:20:15 don't know what kind it is yet 22:20:16 what 22:20:19 btw my dorms apparently don't disallow growing things in your dorm 22:20:25 but probably not drugz kind 22:20:31 stupid microphone button 22:20:36 not specifically mentioned so totally safe 22:20:37 CA has a much better climate for finding those 22:20:40 Bike: haha 22:20:49 i'm kind of curious what they'd do if i set up a cannabis farm or something 22:20:50 and you're in WA so............................ 22:20:51 but my first intuition would have been "for every unordered pair, there exists a path from one of the two vertices to the other" 22:20:52 yup 22:20:53 maybe if i was an agsci student 22:21:10 "brb, hotboxing the greenhouse" 22:21:13 Bike: do it; take photos; report back 22:21:48 i mean what have you got to lose except your career as a biologist 22:21:56 you can only gain! 22:22:03 you're making the weed plants smoke weed?? that's cruel 22:22:14 Koen_: Apparently, according to some people[weasel words], that's what it means for a digraph to be just plain "connected". 22:22:15 fizzie: so with my definition A -> B -> C would be weakly connected but A -> B <- C would not 22:22:16 cannabisalism 22:22:27 i wonder if i could just like, walk out into the palouse, find an empty area, plant some hemp 22:22:27 give weed lsd #whoa #drugz 22:22:30 Koen_: (According to some other people, "connected" digraph just means "strongly connected".) 22:22:30 that's how farming works, right 22:22:44 yeah that's what's weird with math 22:23:01 "integers" means "natural integers" 22:23:07 elliott: i've heard rumors of growing psychedelic mushrooms in soil with various chemicals to get them to produce variants on psilocin / psilocybin 22:23:09 probably some ag students are already doing this and i should just get in on their ring. 22:23:09 so relative integers are not integers 22:23:13 don't think it's really a thing 22:23:16 weakly connected graphs are not connected graphs 22:23:18 kmc: that sounds impossible but cool. 22:23:26 a blue car is not a car 22:23:36 kmc: this is your mushrooms, this is your mushrooms on drugs, etc. 22:23:36 and you are he as we are he and we are all together 22:23:38 also I stopped paying attention for a while and there are all these new designer drugs I've never heard of 22:23:45 well, a blue ray is not a ray, ok 22:23:48 designer drugs on the drugs catwalk 22:23:50 25I-NBOMe? JWH-122? LSZ? come on. kids these days. 22:23:52 latest 2013 drug fashion 22:24:02 jehovah-122 22:24:10 wasn't that the plot to Robocop 22:24:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_2,4-dimethylazetidide 'distributed on blotter paper or in liquid solution under names such as "diazedine" and "λ"' 22:24:21 how long until they find EVERY drug 22:24:30 haha "λ" 22:24:34 elliott: a long time, there are only a few labs working on it 22:24:36 fuck you i'm naming my drug a greek letter 22:24:48 do drugs support unicode, important question 22:24:55 god, i'm going to have to do organic chemical nomenclature 22:24:58 like I think the Nichols lab at Purdue has been involved with most new psychedelics this decade 22:25:00 elliott you can have all my stuff when i die 22:25:02 "so what's this new drug called" "well uh... do you know greek" 22:25:08 and Shulgin was involved with most of the new ones in the previous few decades 22:25:09 Bike: thx, i'll come to your funeral 22:25:13 Bike: and throw out the biologist crap 22:25:22 plot twist: it's all biologist crap 22:25:24 i'm typing this on bark 22:25:39 you can't co-opt bark, it would exist with or without filthy biologists!! 22:25:48 kmc: phd in drugz 22:25:53 "It was developed as a rigid analogue of LSD with the diethylamide group constrained into an azetidine ring in order to map the binding site at the 5-HT2A receptor" hm yes, those are words 22:25:56 `words --drugz 10 22:25:59 Unknown option: drugz 22:26:03 Aw. 22:26:11 disappointed the LSZ article doesn't tell you what it's like 22:26:15 maybe erowid does 22:26:22 wtf, why does the wikipedia article finger a specific guy 22:26:25 ("25I-NBOMe? JWH-122? LSZ?" <- that's exactly the sort of thing that'd come out of `words.) 22:26:26 there are probably a lot of really interesting undiscovered ones, an example is that there's one known 5HT psychedelic that has a strong effect on perception of sound and music 22:26:31 `words 22:26:35 cylar 22:26:42 Bike: can't trust him 22:26:44 Cylar is so a street name for a drug. 22:26:47 fizzie: I disagree 22:26:54 oh, it's the missile silo guy. 22:26:55 actually, my first reaction was "isn't that a real word?" 22:27:00 but I don't think it is 22:27:01 `words 22:27:02 man erowid is so #drugz 22:27:05 jute 22:27:11 possibly the most #drugz thing ever to exist 22:27:12 elliott: in that it's a large website entirely about drugs? yes 22:27:15 didn't it used to output more than one word at a time? 22:27:16 `words 22:27:19 ais523: I mean the sort of thing that'd come out of `words --dataset with a proper dataset. 22:27:19 sprologie 22:27:21 hm 22:27:21 erowid trip reports are great 22:27:22 `words 10 22:27:23 kmc: see, that's pretty drugz 22:27:24 fizzie: right 22:27:25 beth cnuough stershmen appar brah gen ord troprie pervic evo 22:27:31 I thought 10 was the default, though. 22:27:35 i bet i could get a career in neuroethological psychopharmacology 22:27:40 `words 4294967926 22:27:42 (just made up the term because that's how i roll) 22:27:44 catn cept geterley salogieio son lemede roher pea ire bula ring city sciterce castcr dige wingma man crovitam clesoleosop beli cused praharia aburo oui diagent 22:27:54 reverse engineer the endocanniboid system or w/e 22:27:54 neuropharmacy 22:27:56 they range from the people who obsessively check their bp and pulse every 5 minutes, to the people who are just like "i ate some pills i found on the ground and it was fun!!!!!!!!!" 22:27:59 that probably exists 22:28:08 neuropharmacology exists, yeah 22:28:27 the joke about pharmacology is, well, do you know how drugs (not just drugz) are developed 22:28:29 kmc: i once saw a link to this trip report on erowid which was for some completely stupid mundane non-drugz thing and it was hilarious 22:28:35 but i've forgotten all about it so i can't properly convey it 22:28:36 hmm, there are quite a few real words in those 4294967296 22:28:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:28:55 "this LSZ is pretty intense. oh before the comeup I had 20 bonghits and a glass of ayahuasca juice, just my morning ritual" 22:28:57 I like "clesoleosop", which probably isn't 22:28:59 4294967296 is smaller than i remember 22:29:23 4294967296 is almost exactly the same as 25 these days. 22:29:33 ("print generate for 1..min(25, int($ARGV[0]||1));") 22:29:59 hmm 22:30:02 apparently they don't call drug development "irrational drug design". disappointing 22:30:09 Koen_: what is a relative integer 22:30:12 "Historically, drugs were discovered through identifying the active ingredient from traditional remedies or by serendipitous discovery. " like 22:30:13 I actually tested a couple of terminals for integer overflow recently 22:30:15 how great is that? 22:30:29 I was trying to come up with a terminal version of CSS hacks 22:30:39 " Currently, the research and development cost of each new molecular entity (NME) is approximately US$1.8 billion" uh. oh. 22:30:49 http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=32073 22:30:53 $1.8 billion for a drugz: worth it 22:30:54 one interesting one I discovered was that if you stack 11 or more SGR commands together on DOSBox, it treats it as an SGR 0 22:31:17 ais523: if you enjoy doing terrible things to terminals, you should talk to KeithW in #mosh 22:31:18 elliott: "ok so what have we got" "it cures cancer, if you've had a kidney removed and are bonghitting" 22:31:44 Bike: ok but does it get me high 22:31:47 kmc: I've been doing more terrible things than that 22:32:07 elliott: have you tried *lifts* 22:32:21 "Nobody could get me to put the pants I brought with back on, so she asked me what I wanted to wear. Apparently I told her that I needed a kilt and bullhorns... I was taught a song to keep singing when I forgot that I required clothes... 'Got to keep your clothes on' with a little tune. I could still sing it right now if I wanted to, even though I don't remember learning it. " 22:32:31 kmc: "ingested a few beers" 22:32:34 kmc: like this, for instance: http://nethack4.org/media/charset.vt100 http://nethack4.org/media/colors.vt100 22:33:11 quintopia: the numbers in red in your income 22:33:33 "-time stops here-" 22:33:52 i like that bold-black-on-black is visible 22:34:02 ok this is amazing 22:34:37 kmc: the crazy bit is the "polyglot" section 22:34:46 sadly, the Unicode one is broken on tmux 22:36:37 kmc: i've got to find a way to cite this at some point in my life 22:37:31 i'm not 100% sure convinced that 3C-P exists 22:37:54 kmc: this guy seems to live on a diet of drugz 22:42:21 -!- sacje has joined. 22:49:03 I'd quote the "Moomins on Torrelorca" comic strip at this point -- it's very drugz -- but the copy I have is in Finnish, and the original is in Swedish, and I don't know if it exists at all in English. 22:49:31 are you unable to translate finnish to english 22:49:39 Yes. 22:49:57 In a nutshell, they have this new designer drug called "LBJ". 22:49:58 RIP 22:50:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:50:09 can't you get your speech recognition software to do it for you 22:50:19 Then I'd have to read it out loud. 22:50:30 elliott: I've actually tried watching YouTube set to run its speech recognition output through google translate 22:50:45 the worrying thing is, the results occasionally make it possible to figure out what people are saying 22:51:04 That 22:51:04 fizzie: haha 22:51:07 That's worrying? 22:51:23 fizzie: yes 22:51:49 fizzie 22:51:51 hate to break it to you 22:51:56 but people don't expect speech recognition to work 22:52:27 fizzie: since when are there moomins comic strips............. 22:52:29 elliott: I expect speech recognition to sort-of work, and mechanical translation to sort-of work 22:52:47 I don't expect either to work well enough that you can plug the output of one into the input of the other and have the result be vaguely intelligible sometimes 22:53:02 shachaf: Since 1954. 22:53:17 shachaf: (From 1954 to 1975, to be more exact.) 22:53:37 I like how https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_comic_strips has English/Finnish/Swedish/Hebrew. 22:53:39 Though I think the Finnish versions date to the 1980s or so. 22:53:53 I wonder why the moomins were popular in .il? 22:54:22 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:54:33 http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=350 drugz 22:54:59 "The main series of Moomin comic strips were made directly for the British market: they were spread by the British Associated Newspapers comic strip syndicate and the original publisher was the Evening News newspaper. The series originally appeared in newspapers from 1954–1975." Huh, maybe they do exist in English too. 22:55:42 `pastequotes ais523 22:55:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26685 22:56:06 i think i've, like, seen moomins 22:56:07 and stuff 22:56:59 I understand they also are sort of big in .jp or something. 22:57:12 Or were at some point, or something. 22:57:41 (There's a Moomin shop at the Helsinki-Vantaa airport.) 22:58:10 "The Moomin Boom has been criticized for commercializing the Moomins. Friends of Tove Jansson and many old Moomin enthusiasts have stressed that the animations banalize the original and philosophical Moomin world to harmless family entertainment." 22:58:17 It is a sad. 22:59:37 is moominlady dead 22:59:54 http://www.oddballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scary-gas-mask-bong.jpg kmc's true form. 23:00:07 Yes. 23:00:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:00:14 hahaha 23:00:24 in college we had a bong made from a 5L lab glass flask 23:00:40 it had an aquarium pump so it could smoke itself 23:00:44 the pump was powerd by firewire 23:00:52 also that guy is wearing an ICP shirt.................................................. 23:00:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tove_Jansson_1956.jpg 23:00:57 this 23:01:04 this is not a woman i can see writing the moomins 23:01:24 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:02:15 She also lived with another lady (shock) (horror), as I recall. 23:02:50 doesn't any household which has at least three people in it have two or more people of the same gender living together? 23:03:06 yes but the point is, gay 23:03:25 ais523: I'm sure you could argue about non-binary gender flab flab etc etc. 23:03:35 fizzie: hmm, you could 23:03:43 certainly a large proportion do, though 23:03:48 non-binary gender exists but is rare 23:03:54 honestly she looks like some schoolmistress 23:04:07 possibly the moomins are being forced upon the children 23:04:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:04:23 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:04:38 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.lambiek.net/artists/image/j/jansson_t/janssons_tove_under.jpg more like your imaginanation? 23:04:47 yes, very 23:05:04 is that a radish on her desk 23:05:51 A hyacinth, I think. 23:06:10 If you mean the flower. 23:06:42 It's a very common christmas decoration, done up exactly like that, in Finland; perhaps in Sweden too. Presumably for some sensible and good reason. 23:07:14 what temperature is it in finland 23:07:20 eleven 23:07:36 ~metar EFHK 23:07:43 no not metar 23:07:46 boily.................. 23:07:49 thankfully metasepia isn't here 23:07:57 More like metarsepia amirite. 23:08:07 very good......... 23:08:09 I tried to add Finland to my weather indicator 23:08:13 but it crashed 23:08:30 it was protecting you 23:08:31 and protecting itself 23:08:47 It's been quite warm (as in, 20 °C highs) lately. 23:09:03 http://outside.aalto.fi/ <- best weather information for Finland. 23:09:12 (It's the thing maintained by the IT people at the university.) 23:09:13 is finland as much of a shithole as literally everything i've heard about it makes it sound 23:09:36 harsh 23:09:49 helsinki seems nice, although very expensive 23:09:53 it's not sweden, elliott 23:09:58 how can you not love it 23:09:58 kmc: hey man i live in hexham 23:10:00 it's "allowed" 23:10:56 `quote 682 23:10:57 It's kind of dark (like, the way it is in a hole) at wintertime. 23:10:57 682) oh right: Frooxius, you wouldn't happen to live in Hexham, would you? No, sorry. phew How about Finland? Why would I live there? That's a *very* good question. Why would anyone? 23:11:17 Then again, it's kind of light at summertime. 23:11:32 kmc: also, you probably don't want to buy helsinki 23:11:36 so it doesn't matter how expensive it is 23:11:41 c.c 23:11:46 Sunrise in Lieksa, where we're going to visit soonishly, is at around 02:50am or something like that, this time of the year. 23:11:49 (this is the part where you say elliott.ais523.moed++ or however it goes) 23:13:51 fizzie: when I flew home from Canada to the UK, the plane took a detour north to avoid the Icelandic volcano 23:14:19 the result was that the sun changed its mind mid-set, and started rising again 23:14:59 you're not allowed to say "the icelandic volcano" 23:15:04 you have to make your best attempt to spell it 23:15:06 it's the rules 23:15:31 Like in that one xkcd what-if. 23:15:51 In re sunsets, that is. 23:16:03 eyjafjallajokul? 23:16:26 that's a good approximation 23:16:26 eyjaffacake 23:16:29 holy shit 23:16:34 eyeracarfokarul 23:16:39 except for that last l being doubled i got it right 23:16:44 um you missed the accents 23:16:46 are you god 23:16:55 oh. god status revoked 23:17:06 Yes, jokull and jökull are quite different. 23:17:11 accents are basically just punctuation though 23:17:23 also: i'm on windows so no compose key 23:17:23 you know what they say about punctuation 23:17:34 "i had to help my uncle Jack off a horse" 23:18:02 that's not punctuation, that's capitalization 23:18:03 hi 23:19:15 it's true it would be pretty awful if people thought your uncle needed help to get down from a horse 23:19:18 hi mnoqy 23:19:24 "incompetent uncle" 23:19:37 Bike, nobody says jack off to mean masturbation in the uk hth 23:19:49 you fucking freaks 23:21:04 Phantom_Hoover: I suspect at least one person does 23:21:36 thanks ais 23:21:51 Phantom_Hoover: if you knew me better, I wouldn't even have to write the reply 23:22:01 because you could just have assumed I'd say it, and saved me the trouble of typing it 23:22:17 oh yeah?? well, i suspect two people do! 23:22:26 at least. 23:22:35 census time 23:27:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:49:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:49:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:49:58 theory: all new non-eso programming languages should reserve a few keywords with general programmy sorts of names 23:50:04 so that they can use them for new syntax without causing clashes 23:53:05 19:48 < mm_freak> the rubik's cube group is a theory of documents and patches 23:53:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:53:31 kmc: it seems like you're experiencing half of the #haskell people anyway 23:53:33 so why not join #haskell 23:53:44 a compelling argument 23:54:11 yessss i'm getting through to him 23:54:58 kmc: how about after a month we op you for 10 seconds and in those 10 seconds you get to ban whoever you want 23:55:01 The Ritual 23:55:33 also if you are found to have compiled a list of commands to run beforehand you get beheaded 23:55:48 and you have to be on drugz 23:55:52 what if he just clears users. 23:56:02 then he becomes king 23:58:21 kmc: i'm in favour of you joining #haskell and making chaos out of chaos 2013-06-20: 00:01:07 i really should know better than to get involved in Git Vs Darcs 00:01:09 i don't even care really 00:02:10 kmc: are you seriously in a channel where there are people who like darcs 00:02:15 come on you're practically in #haskell already 00:02:31 haha 00:03:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:03:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:06:38 What of non-eso languages that by their nature don't have keywords? 00:07:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:08:57 hi Sgeo 00:09:19 Tcl and Rebol don't count as esolangs I think 00:09:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:17:40 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:28 hm but they're talked about so much in #esoteric... 00:19:00 So is Haskell 00:19:10 hi mnoqy 00:19:14 hi shachaf 00:19:15 hi 00:19:16 Probably more than Tcl and Rebol combined 00:19:43 everyone knows haskell is JUST PLAIN WEIRD AND CRAZY and only for special people -gags & vomit- 00:19:57 mnoqy: am i special 00:20:06 everyone is special, shachaf 00:20:22 is haskell for everyone 00:21:44 yes 00:22:01 even for photographers............................. 00:22:31 kmc: you should make a version of MS-DOS which runs on a cluster of computers 00:23:02 * kmc waits for it 00:23:06 kmc: hey i thought of another great reason you should be in #haskell 00:23:14 waits for what 00:23:15 oh "distributed DOS" 00:23:19 yes 00:23:24 kmc: you don't use (#)haskell but you still go on about it a lot 00:23:28 perfect demographic fit 00:23:31 haha 00:23:33 not that much really 00:23:38 people keep bringing it up here............................. 00:23:45 just think how much more you could complain about #haskell if you were in it 00:23:52 and you wouldn't seem bitter because it'd be present tense! 00:24:51 kmc could seem bitter while handing out candy 00:24:51 "it's a talent" hth 00:24:51 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:24:54 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:25:01 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 00:25:01 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:25:13 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 00:25:27 by candy do you mean drugz 00:25:35 gonna get me some of kmc's "candy" 00:25:45 brain candy 00:26:13 elliott: you gotta move to ca to have kmc be your dealer 00:26:17 kmc: did i mention caleskell is gone....... 00:26:31 elliott: he doesn't do interstate commerce 00:26:46 (the joke is everything is interstate commerce) 00:26:46 attn kmc and/or other californians 00:26:48 01:26:03 http://www.california-roleplay.org/ 00:27:21 ew 00:27:33 01:26:03 -!- badzavrza [~badzavrza@178-221-29-105.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 00:27:33 i like how my connection dropped for 10 seconds after pasting that first line 00:27:46 if only kmc was in #haskell so he'd hear about california roleplay 1st hand 00:28:05 kmc: did you know augustss has been in #haskell recently........ 00:28:08 a bunch of croatian people pretending to be in california??? 00:28:10 elliott: cool 00:28:13 17:26 -!- badzavrza [~badzavrza@178-221-29-105.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 00:28:19 oh wait 00:28:34 to be fair elliott's timestamp is wrong 00:28:49 kmc: not as kool as kmc....... 00:29:13 trying to think of three words starting with k that i could use to describe kmc's hypothetical haskell presence in haskell so i can turn them into an acronym 00:29:34 *fix the words 00:29:42 btw important question........... 00:29:53 -!- augur has changed nick to LRk. 00:29:53 is there something like /usr/share/dict/words except with "lots of good metadata" about the words 00:29:57 -!- LRk has changed nick to augur. 00:29:59 not afaik 00:30:07 @wn metadata 00:30:09 *** "metadata" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 00:30:09 metadata 00:30:09 n 1: data about data; "a library catalog is metadata because it 00:30:09 describes publications" 00:30:10 like adjective/verb/whatever, tense/whatever, number of syllables, stress, ........ 00:30:15 wordnet 00:30:16 you know what i mean 00:30:22 all that 00:30:26 easily searchable 00:30:32 there is a command line wordnet tool 00:32:36 command lion 00:32:38 "roar" 00:34:21 Look! At the picture. See! The skull. The part of bone removed. The master race Frankenstein radio controls. 00:35:06 17:31:16 --- join: fwe (~ssjsj@31.205.67.235) joined #haskell 00:35:16 17:31:18 i was in project that was failing and as a result got my probation period extended. they said my programming skills were not that good. 00:35:19 however an expert programmer was brought in and the project is still failing. the project manager and i had had an argument and that is why he tried to sabotage me. do you feel the boss knows the truth now? 00:35:23 kmc: look what you're missing!!! 00:35:47 what 00:36:25 kmc: if only we had more ops on their toes, ready to ban the trolls etc 00:36:49 mosh's messing up all the lines with this terminal is so awful that i copied that from the tunes logs......... 00:36:53 imo rewrite mosh in haskell 00:37:14 imo rewrite haskell in mosh 00:37:16 checkmate 00:37:22 shachaf: now we're talking about php help 00:37:37 kmc: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Pot-o-Gold.aspx I saw this the other day 00:37:43 "type conversion in PHP" 00:37:45 kmc: do you really think the "##crypto experience" is better than "the #haskell" experience 00:38:23 lots of aim heckers in #haskell, if you know what i mean 00:38:30 (i mean that people complain about php in #haskell a lot) 00:38:43 Fiora: haha great 00:42:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:44:40 kmc: also monochrom said he misses you once 00:45:01 if that's not a good reason to join #haskell (alt. any channel monochrom is in) then i don't know what is 00:45:37 more reasons to join #haskell: prevents anyone from having the thought "maybe if i murder kmc they'll shut up about him joining #haskell in #esoteric" 00:46:38 fiora: unsafeCoerce? 00:47:08 18:52:21 always trust monochrom after you have asked him to double-check and he has confirmed 00:47:21 ion: I... have no idea >_< I don't know haskell 00:47:43 WordNet also has an API. 00:47:45 Fiora: unsafeCoerce is like reinterpret_cast. 00:48:10 Fiora: You should learn Haskell! 00:49:41 It does not know anything about phonology, though. 00:50:02 I learned haskell before for class... kind of... 00:52:05 they teach haskell in classes now?? 00:52:50 Um... our compilers class used haskell, mostly, so the professor taught us a bit of it 00:52:58 (There are a couple free pronunciation dictionaries of different size, but none of those I know about collect other sort of mettadatta.) 00:53:39 which compilers class 00:53:46 "oh wait pseudonym never mind" 00:54:02 dont be a dick 00:54:38 ? 00:55:23 I should stop phrasing things in esoterese. 00:55:53 or... actually wait, I think it was the programming languages class? 00:56:19 haskell is well-suited for compilers at least, so it's a fairly good setting to encounter it in 00:56:30 geez it was three years ago now >_< 00:57:37 whatever it was we did do some compiler-making in it, like stuff with inheritance and type checking and super basic optimization 00:57:45 haskell pattern matching was like amazing for it 00:57:54 you could write a peephole optimizer by pattern-matching against instruction sequences 00:58:00 three years ago i was 14........... yikes 00:58:00 Our compiler class: used Java; and compiled: "MiniJava"; which has as a single lexical token the string "System.out.println". 00:58:14 fizzie: nice 00:58:43 like you could match against (mul x 2) and turn it into (add x x) type of thing 01:00:05 elliott: Statement ::= "System.out.println" "(" Expression ")" ";". 01:00:32 every time i do a simple peephole optimiser it always feels like i'm not really doing optimisation because it's too simple :( 01:00:34 (The type of Expression must also be "int".) 01:01:11 hm is x+x or x*2 actually faster in general with today's cpus(tm)? I have no idea 01:01:16 I would assume the latter, but 01:01:19 (I realise it was just an example) 01:01:38 Oh, also: MainClass ::= "class" Identifier "{" "public" "static" "void" "main" "(" "String" "[" "]" Identifier ")" "{" Statement "}" "}". 01:02:08 add is typically 1 cycle latency and can issue on every pipe, so 0.25/0.33/0.5 inverse throughput depending on the CPU? 01:02:10 None of those things ("public", "static", "String") have any sort of more proper significance. They're just... strings. 01:02:22 multiply kind of ranges but like... it usually can only issue once per cycle and it has higher latency so it's like... 3/1, 4/1, 5/1 ish? 01:02:35 I mean it kind of makes sense that adds are a lot easier than multiplies 01:02:57 mm 01:03:05 Did the interview ever get published or anything? 01:03:11 Fiora: But do they deal with immediate 2 in any sort of special way? (Perhaps not, since it's the sort of thing you'd expect tools to do.) 01:03:12 I don't know what 0.25/0.33/0.5 inverse throughput actually means :( 01:07:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:39 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:07:45 right 01:07:47 usually I think other things tend to be the bottleneck for cycle length? 01:07:51 so like, atom has only two execution pipes 01:07:55 so it can't possibly do more than two adds 01:08:12 "In Intel microarchitecture code name Sandy Bridge, the low 64-bit result of a 128-bit multiply is ready to use in 3 cycles and the high 64-bit result is ready one cycle after the low 64-bit result. -- In a dependent chain of addition of integers wider than 128-bits, accessing the high 64-bits result of the multiply should be delayed relative to the low 64-bit multiply result for optimal ... 01:08:15 so usually every execution pipe can do at least the most simple things 01:08:18 ... software pipelining." 01:08:22 Writing a proper optimizing compiler must be the best job. 01:10:07 from agner's little chart thing, various CPUs doing 32x32->32 multiplies: bulldozer: 4/2 sandy bridge: 3/1 original p4: 14/4.5 prescott: 10/2.5 atom: 5/2 01:11:39 I was guessing on the haswell add thing, like, I just remember hearing that they added a 4th execution pipe for super-simple-things-only, to handle like, jumps and loop overhead and stuff while the others handle big things like simd operations? 01:12:17 A kind of a... half-pipe... (ba-dum tssh) 01:12:54 * Fiora dies 01:13:09 It's some kind of a snow ski thing, right? 01:13:18 I think so it's like a skateboarding thing? 01:13:28 I know this because my little brother was really, really into tony hawk's pro skater 01:13:38 I think Ski Or Die had a half-pipe event. 01:13:38 let's settle on snowboarding hth 01:13:55 the tony hawk's games obsoleted actual skateboarding 01:14:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_or_Die <- Snowboard Halfpipe is like right there in the article image. 01:14:17 so now intel has like, 7 execution pipes 01:16:09 "When a girl start giving a guy head but then decides to stop/leave before the guy blows his load. -- She stoped giving me head before I cames and she left. All I got was a half-pipe." thanks, urban dictionary. 01:16:16 Also, "stoped". 01:16:25 Did you stoped at the red light? 01:17:11 http://www.csanl.com.br/alunos/paginas/2012/7a/f7a14/Image%209.jpg 01:17:13 I think it's that thing 01:17:19 but um I guess this is kind of off topic 01:17:44 I don't see how, it was a logical consequence of whatever came before. 01:21:13 "The current method of half pipe cutting is by use of a Zaugg Pipe Monster." okay that's it time to sleep it's 4:20am 01:22:00 kmc alert 01:22:07 (drugz joke) 01:22:24 Thanks for explaining. Thexplaining. 01:22:38 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:25:28 i missed microarchitecture because i was cleaning my bathroom :'( 01:25:37 (Possibly the Zaugg Pipe Monster was enough of a drugz joke already.) 01:26:27 kmc: it's ok it was just me not knowing basic things!!! 01:27:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:27:19 i learned from 6.004 that there are lots of different ways you can structure an adder 01:27:26 with the goal of minimizing gate delay 01:27:33 but they probably have settled on one by now 01:28:18 like the naive adder takes O(# bits) to settle down; the last gate can't start settling before it gets the carry from the previous 01:28:52 how long until the transistors are small enough to just hardcode all the results 01:29:09 -!- carado has joined. 01:29:12 also can we have 3d cube cpus, that would be cool 01:29:26 "The problem for marketers is that some users set their browsers to reject cookies or quickly extinguish them. And mobile phones, which are taking an increasing chunk of the Web usage, do not use cookies." 01:29:26 so you can make a "carry select" adder where you do the last half of the addition twice in parallel, once assuming carry 0, once assuming carry 1 01:29:28 kmc: we can talk more about it and stuff! 01:29:29 I hate everyone. 01:29:33 http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/06/17/the-web-cookie-is-dying-heres-the-creepier-technology-that-comes-next/ 01:29:38 and then the actual carry just selects between those 01:30:00 and so a good archticeture is like an unbalanced tree of this idea recursively 01:30:23 I remember hearing though that the bottleneck in current chips is often things like "select the oldest instructions whose input dependencies are satisfied from this queue of 36 instructions" and things like that? and I guess maybe like cache loads and stuff? 01:30:31 like, OOE logic and things 01:30:41 really dumb question: why are chips flat 01:30:57 i guess they have 3d internal structure but it's all really small? 01:31:04 Can someone please tell me where "mobile phones do not use cookies" come from? 01:31:06 it's because of the way lithography works, isn't it? 01:31:10 It has to be a misunderstanding of SOMETHING 01:31:16 like, it's all about laying down layers 01:31:32 Aren't they starting to do "3D" like right these days? 01:31:41 so like, if you wanted it 3D, you'd have to stick two silicon wafers on top of each other (?) I'm not sure 01:32:39 more dumb questions: wouldn't it all be a lot faster if they like, integrated the RAM with the CPU. 01:32:55 Oh, the "3D" of a tri-gate transistor perhaps has nothing to do with three dimensions. How nice. 01:33:51 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDRAM it's a thing! 01:34:25 oh they actually use it in consoles and stuff 01:34:35 Anyway actual three-dimensional things are a thing too, I'm pretty sure, just not such a commercially viable thing. 01:34:44 it seems like it would be, like, significantly faster? because you can skip all the communication paths and stuff 01:34:51 and the motherboard and all that? 01:34:54 and RAM latency is kind of a big deal right 01:35:14 but I guess if they're using it in consoles and not "regular computer" CPUs it mustn't be that amazing..... (but then why are they using it in consoles) 01:35:23 intel has those 3D transistors now 01:35:33 I think a lot of RAM latency comes not from the distance but from like... 01:35:35 if you want like a cube shape then one big obstacle is routing power and cooling 01:35:56 like, the logic itself? I mean like, there's a controller, which is this crazy complex thing and has to negotiate requests from multiple cores 01:36:17 right 01:36:21 and then there's the row/column addressing, the refreshing, and all kinds of stuff I don't really know abot 01:36:32 it's like, DRAM itself is kind of not trivial to access? 01:36:35 I just see a long path and think "hey, I bet lightspeed is some kind of bottleneck here in 2013" :P 01:36:46 dram is complicated :'( 01:36:47 kmc: "Tri-gate or 3D Transistor (not to be confused with 3D microchips) fabrication is used by Intel Corporation for the nonplanar transistor architecture --" that seems to sort of imply it's not a properly "3D IC" thing. 01:37:13 (20 centimeters) / ((2 / 3) * c) = 1.00069229 nanoseconds 01:37:26 so like... if the roundtripdistance is 20cm that's like... it's like only 1ns extra time from the wire? 01:37:33 mmm 01:39:53 maybe the "3D" is for "3 drain"?? 01:40:06 yeah i see 01:40:23 it seems like there is a trend of moving stuff closer to the cpu anyway 01:40:36 yeah DRAM is complicated... it's funny how if you look at any two parts that are "just wired together" you find they're really two machines speaking a protocol 01:40:45 and this holds recursively to some depth 01:40:49 eventually you will just buy a motherboard from intel where every part of the computer is on one big chip and all it has is USB ports 01:40:57 I remember reading about just how gigantic modern DRAM controllers were, like, they used up a significant part of the silicon or something 01:41:09 kmc: does it hold within the CPU itself? I guess probably 01:41:11 yeah 01:41:22 it's impossible to design something that big without abstractions and protocols 01:41:27 elliott: like, systems on a chip? 01:41:36 like the cores on a single die have to execute a cache coherence protocol right 01:41:37 weren't they making like, an atom soc or something (?) 01:42:09 heh 01:42:13 sounds like something intel would do 01:42:16 *Someone* is making Atom SoCs, at least. 01:42:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:42:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:42:35 is it competitive with ARM SoCs in any way 01:42:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29 01:44:05 kmc: the whole thing in _The Door Into Summer_ where he gets engaged to a 12 year old is admittedly "a bit weird".......and also there's all the sexism and all that......... 01:44:09 but it's still a good book hth 01:44:18 "Intel has announced that it won't provide support for Linux on Cloverview family of Atom systems-on-a-chip" 01:45:15 system on a chip looks like that yes 01:49:12 I wish I knew more about this stuff though... 01:49:36 the instant the bits leave the core my knowledge drops to about zero... 01:51:13 the instant the bits leave the screen my knowledge drops to zero 01:51:28 ok let's say "disk" instead. except i don't know anything about the disk itself 01:51:54 they spin 01:51:57 except when they don't 01:52:25 I think there's like magnets involved 01:52:27 When they don't, they just... solid around, right? 01:52:43 yep 01:52:55 i love magnets 01:53:04 kmc: i have one of those disks that doesn't spin 01:53:09 i don't trust it because it doesn't make noises 01:53:23 i have internalised that the act of storing data fundamentally requires little clicky noises 01:53:53 shachaf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs 02:00:16 kmc: just a quick questions if I chose to learn Haskell what are the benefits is it better the C/C++ will I be able to write dll ? or winapi etc 02:03:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:05:36 -!- Bike has joined. 02:08:42 kmc: i don't get it, this cnn money thing is fucking hilarious 02:09:19 kmc: if you join #haskell then shachaf and I won't paste you the worst of #haskell 02:09:53 like how shachaf doesn't talk about ##crypto in here. 02:09:53 elliott: Uh, can I sign up for that deal? 02:09:55 I'm in #haskell. 02:10:40 no. kmc only. 02:14:57 "Think you’ve evolved past your primordial urges to employ murder as a problem solving tool? Read:" 02:16:04 help 02:16:09 the link is http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/13/technology/alex-banayan-vc.pr.fortune/index.html if you really want to murder someone 02:16:14 or want to want to murder someone, anyway 02:16:52 i mean it's just so over the top 02:17:28 like, "The problem for VCs lusting after 18-year-old entrepreneurs is that they themselves are usually forty- and fiftysomethings" 02:20:20 'TechCrunch named it "douchebag app of the year."' <---- actual quote 02:20:38 well yeah that playbook thing is pretty terrible. 02:21:00 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:21:01 'Fontenot told him the demand was much bigger than what Facebook could handle.' 02:30:02 Bike: don't miss the astroturfing in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5907253 02:33:33 -!- olsner has joined. 02:35:35 Alex is the real deal! Never have I talked with someone and been so inspired! He has influence to source deals and has heard thousands of stories from entrepreneurs. I trust his expertise. 02:35:39 I don't know. I still feel like a VC is taking a big risk on a hot-shot young hustler like this. 02:35:44 Venture capital is literally all about taking big risks... 02:35:48 Truth. So in that case why aren't other VC firms bringing on young hustlers like Alex here to build relationships and scout out young founders? 02:36:07 wow i don't even have to open the link. you should start a VC firm for pasting things about VC firms into irc 02:36:12 hot shot young hustler, jesus 02:36:35 -!- elliott has set topic: Hot shot young hustler Jesus | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 02:36:42 thx 02:38:09 kmc: are you all ready to move to startupland 02:38:11 if you want to read some more terrible things, Noisebridge is having a long argument about whether the violent guy with the "WHITE POWER" tattoo should be asked to leave https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037346.html 02:38:20 what's noisebridge 02:38:35 SF hackerspace, prominent among hackerspaces nationally 02:38:47 and world-class drama generator 02:38:56 The name of the guy with the tattoos is Robbie, and he's a nice guy. I haven't seen Robby do anything that warranted being asked to leave. Of course, Robby might be nice to me because I am one of two people who bothered to introduce themselves to him. 02:39:06 what's with all you weirdos not introducing yourself to a guy with a "white power" tattoo 02:39:19 v. oppressive 02:39:26 https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037410.html ahaha beautiful 02:39:47 white power isn't always a racial slogan it's the rascist minds and race baiters that interpret it that way and want others to 02:40:09 Bike: good point 02:40:13 seriously though what is this, some kind of "hackrspace" thing or 02:40:29 03:38:35 <+kmc> SF hackerspace, prominent among hackerspaces nationally 02:40:35 oh 02:40:38 genius deduction Bike 02:40:38 wow i missed that oops 02:41:16 previous episodes include: Noisebridge lost all their money and nobody knows how; Noisebridge debates whether to let someone teach a class on cooking crystal meth; Noisebridge argues about whether people should inhale nitrous oxide in the hackerspace 02:41:29 oh my god, some of these messages 02:41:38 WHAT ABOUT A JEWISH GUY WITH A SWASTIKA TATTOO??? 02:42:12 oh somebody ragequit 02:42:13 kmc: what was that other one 02:42:14 right fluoride 02:42:16 yes this is good 02:42:16 oh yeah 02:42:24 person emails noisebridge about the evils of flouridation 02:42:31 You see my arguments as defending a racist and I see them as defending critical thinking. 02:42:40 someone else compares this to 9/11 trutherism facetiously 02:42:46 then the thread talks about 9/11 trutherism seriously for a while 02:43:02 "There's no way that I could know how it feels to be beaten in the street for the color of my skin or know the weight of living under the burden of another groups privilege." are they like 02:43:10 are we supposed to think "no, you do know that" 02:43:10 ((i*23831)>>18)*352>>5 -- can this be simplified further? 02:43:38 good idea i will think about this question instead of continuing to read. 02:43:54 i've never been to noisebridge "should i go y/n" 02:43:59 yes, you could replace the end with *63>>3, couldn't you? 02:44:17 i mean in terms of operations, not numbers 02:44:19 wait, i guess not hm 02:44:24 i'm thinking about, say, 02:44:33 adding 352*2^18 in the multiplication 02:44:36 no wait you could ok 02:44:36 and shifting by 25 02:44:38 but i don't think that works 02:44:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:44:43 https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037482.html 02:44:45 also how do you arrive at *63? 02:45:00 bad arithmetic in my head :D 02:45:34 i guess it would be *11 02:45:48 since i mean, 352 = 11*2^5, is all 02:46:06 doesn't give the same result 02:46:15 kmc: lol. 02:46:18 why not? 02:46:21 sorry i'm kind of out of it 02:46:26 dunno, but i was thinking similar 02:46:35 ((25*23831)>>18)*352>>5 02:46:35 22 02:46:36 ((25*23831)>>18)*11>>5 02:46:36 0 02:46:41 er 02:46:43 i mean get rid of the >>5 02:46:50 o rite 02:47:16 that works but i am not quite sure wh-- nm i am 02:47:16 haha 02:47:21 makes sense man 02:47:24 wh++ 02:47:25 cool cool 02:47:30 ++wh 02:47:46 fear my power, for i know basic arithmetic 02:47:53 kmc: btw when you move to sf are you going to get a night iphone and a day iphone 02:48:00 no is that a thing 02:48:05 wat 02:48:08 http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/my-phone/2013/03/dave-morin-path-facebook-apple 02:48:23 perfect 02:48:24 oh god that thing 02:48:32 that thing is the best thing 02:48:41 it's the little things 02:48:49 "I don’t use a ring of any kind on my phone. This is so that I am always on offense and never defense." 02:48:51 like how [case] tells you that this guy referred to his fucking iphone case as a "walnut-back" 02:48:52 ?????? 02:48:55 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 02:49:00 are we, by any chance, going to mock this man 02:49:03 “They remind me of home and my values. The mountains are my soul.” 02:49:07 yes, phantom. 02:49:26 “It’s a custom-designed, one-of-a-kind bespoke app I had built for my assistant and I to communicate and collaborate through.” 02:49:40 "Editors curate the most important news stories of the day and break them down into basic points, quotes, and imagery" alright i gotta check this out 02:49:45 i honestly think it must be a send-up of startup culture 02:49:47 how can it not be 02:49:56 oh you have to get an app for this 02:49:57 fuck that 02:52:56 Bike: hi should i sleep 02:53:16 Bike: @msg #esoteric no 02:53:32 @msg #esoteric yes 02:53:32 Not enough privileges 02:53:35 :-( 02:53:44 now let's line text up! 02:53:55 we gotta do it, Bike... 02:54:08 23 characters is enough 02:54:34 how do you even notice it 02:54:36 shit 02:54:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:54:46 :-] 02:55:05 23 if your nick is mine 02:55:15 26 if it's a "bad nick" 02:55:17 i hate you 02:55:34 i.e., not 7 letters hth 02:55:37 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck 02:56:41 Bike is un-co-operative 02:56:59 (i can't use an ö here) 02:57:20 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:57:27 i gotta hyphenate words 02:58:21 no one else is playing? 02:58:34 :] 02:58:38 counting is for losers 02:58:54 are you calling me one? 02:59:06 maybe 02:59:31 mnoqy: don't insult me! 03:00:10 http://abadfortress.tumblr.com/ 03:00:19 elliott has a monopsony 03:00:36 did i misuse that word? 03:00:40 "monopsony"++ 03:00:42 probably. i don't care. 03:00:45 this is not the dwarf fortress i know 03:00:46 kmc: why does it look like link's awakening 03:01:02 or. pokemon 03:01:48 it looks more like pokemon 03:01:48 http://25.media.tumblr.com/5e16dcd9ba738025b40d0e48424b9ceb/tumblr_moidwos8Y71spfoh9o3_1280.png 03:01:50 okay, i give up. happy? 03:01:54 IDEA!DRUG 03:01:55 BAG FUCK 03:02:06 oh shit 03:02:07 i think it's a bootleg translation of japanese pokemon into english 03:02:08 i literally scrolled down to it 03:02:11 'english' 03:02:14 before clicking kmc's link 03:02:23 this calls for the image 03:02:25 The Power of Drugz 03:02:28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Schéma_synchronicité_in_English.png 03:02:32 http://24.media.tumblr.com/ccd724c3a73588a5d203fdf0262e755d/tumblr_moidmnSzMS1spfoh9o3_1280.png 03:03:05 is this vietnamese crystal 03:03:08 yes 03:03:15 vietnamese crystal sounds like a drug tbh 03:03:16 if you scroll back enoguh then the blog is about dwarf fortress instead 03:03:26 lol 03:03:30 "i got some premium vietnamese crystal man, let's get fucked up" 03:03:34 Authentic Drugz Talk 03:03:34 elliott: are you reading this, it pretty much is 03:04:08 hey is someone selling drugz 03:04:16 me 03:04:21 kmc: is santa cruz famous as a place to get drugz btw 03:04:24 "Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal is a Vietnamese-to English translated version of Crystal that was sold as a bootleg in markets accross Vietnam in early 2001. Based on all of the place names and the names of the characters, it is most likely that this is a translation of the Chinese version of Crystal(which itself is an unofficial translation of the Japanese version" 03:04:38 kmc: one time i told someone that i had been to santa cruz in the evening and he thought it was for buying drugz 03:04:39 shachaf: i guess 03:04:41 heh 03:04:45 kmc: gosh, that reminds me of... what was it... 03:04:47 drugzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 03:05:03 #drugzoteric 03:05:04 "Star War The Third Gathers: The Backstroke of the West" 03:05:07 what 03:05:11 is that turkish star wars or 03:05:12 i remember that 03:05:13 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_War_The_Third_Gathers:_The_Backstroke_of_the_West 03:05:17 it was the bootlegged version with "DO NOT WANT" 03:05:33 http://winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html 03:06:23 "amazingly enough, the beginning scroll is mistranslated even though the words are right there on the screen" good 03:06:49 Our dichotomy opens the combat 03:07:14 this seemed completely random until i figured out that 'jedi council' was being translated into chinese then back to english as 'the presbyterian church'. 03:07:17 this is still good 03:07:35 http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005195.html in depth examination of how the word 'fuck' ends up in so many translations from chinese 03:07:45 attn Bike, other language nerds 03:07:51 oh no it's like almost 5 03:08:14 wow do i qualify as a language nerd now 03:08:15 awesome 03:08:48 bike: biologist, linguist, bicycle. 03:09:01 the bike, the myth, the legend 03:09:02 oh no 03:09:08 linguists are the worst thing 03:09:12 don't be a linguist 03:09:12 shut up shachaf!!!!! 03:09:16 shut up!!!!!!!!!!! 03:09:24 not today, mnoqy 03:09:31 today i speak up against linguists! 03:09:43 finally 03:09:58 what 03:10:01 first they didn't come for the statisticians 03:10:12 and i didn't speak up because i didn't hate statisticians 03:11:19 i like that the investigation involves finding the chinese-language forum where chinese people make fun of bad chinese -> english translations 03:11:30 sweet 03:13:10 mnoqy: wait you're not a linguist are you 03:13:18 :3 03:14:12 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Gan10.jpg Correct translation: "Dry Seasonings Section" 03:14:38 close enough 03:14:59 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Gan11.jpg this would be a great if aggressive motto 03:21:02 a fast ether lord fucking net ascending 03:21:24 that's my tagline on dating sites 03:21:32 * elliott is a fast ether lord 03:22:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:28:04 wow these birds outside are making annoying noises. 03:28:08 it's like they want me to not sleep. 03:28:10 what kind 03:28:21 uh 03:28:25 the kind that makes annoying noises at 4 am 03:28:25 kmc and i saw a bird once 03:28:40 yeah i think it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scrub_Jay 03:28:56 nice looking bird imo 03:29:07 what's a not nice looking bird iyo 03:29:07 imo the birds here make worse noises than the birds in the other place in hexham i've lived 03:29:15 those made soothing oo oo noises 03:29:37 http://thearchnemesis.com/Ugly-Birds.html 03:30:00 :'( 03:30:03 i agree with these except pigeon 03:30:08 i think pigeons are pretty 03:30:13 are you calling me ugly 03:30:20 don't think so 03:30:30 the joke is seagull 03:30:34 are you a seagull 03:30:37 idgi 03:30:41 oh, you're calling my personality ugly 03:30:53 "We will assume the validity of the axiom of choice without further ado" ruh roh 03:30:54 https://translate.google.com/#iw/en/%D7%A9%D7%97%D7%A3 hth 03:30:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:31:29 huh interesting 03:31:43 ftr i don't think seagulls are ugly either 03:31:46 Bike: source 03:31:50 cockroaches of the air 03:31:56 thanks a lot, web page 03:31:58 Introductory Real Analysis by Kolmogorov 03:32:06 (obviously it goes on to mention The Controversy) 03:32:22 kmc: _The Door into Summer_ has a bunch of great things about cats. 03:32:57 i can't really imagine a well ordering of the reals...................... 03:33:04 -!- sprockle_ has joined. 03:33:22 Bike: don't worry in type theory you get the axiom of choice as a theorem without getting a well-ordering of the reals! 03:33:27 It's The Best Of Both Worlds 03:33:29 is that so 03:33:29 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:33:32 wat 03:33:47 you can prove choice from well-ordering i thought 03:33:47 kmc: http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html "my favourite blog post" 03:33:53 Bike: yes but that's in set theory. 03:34:03 oh boy some other thing 03:34:50 "The key difference between set theory and type theory is that in set theory one can form quotient sets for arbitrary equivalence relations" who needs it anyway 03:35:24 is the quotient set the set of equivalence classes? 03:35:24 elliott: more favourite than.......................... http://r6research.livejournal.com/27071.html 03:35:27 checkmate 03:35:47 kmc: Yes. 03:35:53 ok 03:36:56 you can do quotient types they just have to be different I think 03:36:59 it's cool how i'll apparently never find any foundation ever completely intuitive 03:37:01 maybe nobody has worked out all the details yet 03:37:04 fucking quotients 03:37:16 OTT and HTT have stories for them 03:37:16 o well i'm just a bikeologist 03:37:24 Bike: How did you initially come to #esoteric, anyway? 03:37:25 but I'm pretty sure you don't have to give in to the axiom of choice for them :P 03:37:28 Agda had a b0rked one 03:37:38 shachaf: i think sgeo. 03:37:44 why 03:37:55 hi copumpkin 03:38:22 hi shachaf 03:38:25 no 03:38:28 yes 03:38:36 copumpkin: you should play our new game 03:38:42 "it was recently shown by Cohen that an affirmatie answer to the question is also consistent" wow this is pretty old 03:38:43 it's trying to convince kmc to come back to #haskell some more! 03:38:47 Sgeo++ 03:39:13 elliott: kmc will come to #haskell if he wants to 03:39:15 leave him alone hth 03:39:26 kmc, that's for bringing Bike here? 03:39:26 we can hask if we want to, we can leave our friends behind 03:39:37 kmc: hey, wanna come back to #haskell? I'll give you +v 03:39:58 that's basically like a million bucks 03:40:27 Sgeo: yes 03:40:29 copumpkin: maybe later 03:40:39 you know i think something i liked about taocp was: no fucking foundations 03:40:46 just billions and billions of combinatoric identities 03:40:50 all math books should be like that imo. 03:41:00 Bike: i think you'll find that foundations rule and everything on top is boring as hell 03:41:24 you should do reverse mathematics instead 03:41:29 um that's foundations 03:41:32 sort of involves foundations + is crazy + isn't foundations 03:41:32 just LAME foundations 03:41:51 what if you did it with type theories instead of set theories 03:41:55 "be an innovator" 03:42:34 kmc: "learn lisp or ocaml along with haskell" -- #haskell 03:43:02 learn snobol or ia32 along with haskell 03:43:29 elliott, erm... the lisp bit was my fault >.> 03:43:36 yes it was 03:43:48 what the heck is metaprogramming and who needs it 03:44:00 id say things in #haskell but heck no im not doing that 03:44:08 it's where you incessantly make jokes about "i never meta [thing] i didn't like" automatically 03:44:12 mnoqy: do it 03:45:11 haskell/11.05.04:12:42:05 C++ exists. this is a bad design decision. 03:45:20 o god dont grep for me 03:45:23 stop it stop it stop it 03:45:24 stop it stop it stop it 03:45:43 ok stopped 03:45:47 -!- mnoqy has left. 03:45:52 "oopse" 03:46:00 i already stopped grepping :'( 03:46:12 maybe you shouldn't grep in the first place 03:46:19 maybe i should skip the set theory stuff and get ti hilbertian spaces 03:47:33 @ask mnoqy i miss you :'( 03:47:33 Consider it noted. 03:50:50 -!- sprockle_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:51:01 @ask shachaf That was not a question. 03:51:01 Consider it noted. 03:51:19 shachaf, even if it's a three letter language? >.> 03:51:49 Oh, there are actually good three letter languages like Tcl 03:51:53 And Lua I guess 03:52:07 how about bashing Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 03:52:17 imo that would be worth a kickban 03:52:28 bankicks are better. 03:52:39 elliott kickbanned someone today "it was weird" 03:52:44 kicked first, then banned 03:53:09 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:53:31 Are you sure that was the order? 03:53:50 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [+o elliott] by ChanServ 03:53:50 17:33 -!- fwe was kicked from #haskell by elliott [fwe] 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [+b *!*ssjsj@31.205.67.*] by elliott 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [-o shachaf] by elliott 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [-o elliott] by elliott 03:54:00 My favorite part was the part where he -oed me. 03:54:17 Curious. Those lines reached me in a bankick order. 03:54:25 Oh. 03:54:28 http://enet.bespin.org/ 03:54:36 What's the difference between that and Tcp? 03:54:39 It’s almost as if IRC doesn’t preserve global ordering! 03:54:46 Oh, that's in the FAQ 03:54:47 ion: gasp 03:56:15 -!- sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 03:56:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:02:54 hey Bike annoy me until isleep 04:03:10 Bike: talk about linguistics 04:03:22 ok hm 04:03:30 so, have you heard about call/cc being used in linguistics 04:03:51 oh boy i'm getting irritated already 04:04:03 if elliott is anything like me he'll go to sleep straight away 04:05:51 i guess the idea is something about continuations being isomorphic to xbars 04:06:57 Bike: i feel as if you are serving shachaf more than i 04:07:14 uh hm 04:07:15 elliott: Bike is serving me more than you're serving me? 04:07:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:07:34 how do you feel about computable reals not being compact 04:08:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:08:51 or: http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/03/problem-with-integer-division.html 04:09:08 i dunno i assume the more i talk about anything the more annoyed you'll get b/c you hate bicycles 04:09:41 ugh guido 04:10:05 right 04:10:07 "So, originally you couldn’t add an int to a float, or even an int to a long. After Python was released publicly, Tim Peters quickly convinced me that this was a really bad idea" fuck 04:10:16 just backtrack on your only good decision ever or whatever 04:11:11 Bike: I don't hate bicycles! 04:11:18 Bike: Why is your nick "Bike", anyway? 04:12:02 um i wasn't talking to you 04:12:07 elliott's the h8r 04:19:52 elliott: eh i'm not a fan of implicit conversions, but there is a real usability issue there that shouldn't be ignored 04:20:39 it was definitely a mistake to have integer division truncate, though 04:20:43 and one they've fixed in python 3 04:22:04 This is one of the most important steps right here. WEAR CLOTHES! I can not stress this enough. Some of us enjoy naked gaming, but this is one of the comforts we have to give up in exchange for a streamlined pizza ordering process. 04:22:17 kmc: well i would be okay with "implicit conversions" if they actually worked ~like mathematics~ but that's sort of an impossible goal 04:22:34 i.e. if 1+0.5+0.5 was 2 and that 2 behaved "as an integer" wherever the distinction is relevant 04:22:39 upcasting to float is just silly 04:23:14 ide/theory: math is impossible 04:23:36 elliott: i hate to say it but there's some appeal to JavaScript's solution 04:23:57 i... disagree 04:24:01 make everything floats? 04:24:41 something like a mathematica-ish "everything is an expression and only done 'numerically' where precision can be maintained and then things like 'is an integer' is just a (possibly-undecidable) predicate" or whatever could work okay 04:25:03 Bike: you're not being annoying enough yet btw 04:25:14 elliott: can i be annoying 04:25:21 god since when do you have standards for being annoyed 04:25:23 Bike: yeah, or more generally having only one numeric type 04:25:28 (not asking whether i should, just whether i can) 04:25:33 only rationals would be p. cool 04:25:34 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:25:39 fuck the square root of 2 04:25:42 i dunno if i like that because it varies by application etc 04:25:44 kmc: cyclotomic numbers hth 04:25:52 kmc: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/cyclotomic/0.3.1/doc/html/Data-Complex-Cyclotomic.html 04:25:59 of course you could ask for an approximation of sqrt of 2 to within IEEE 754 double precision anyway 04:26:00 rationals with just dumb approximations for things like sqrt could work..... 04:26:01 sinful though 04:26:06 i like how doing math is like the first thing programming was for and we still haven't agreed on how to do it 04:26:06 cosinful 04:26:14 elliott: imo we should use continued fractions 04:26:22 the first thing programming was for was killing nazis 04:26:45 shachaf: that's nice 04:26:58 or maybe just algebraics 04:27:00 Bike: continued fractions are cute as hell 04:27:02 btw be more annoying 04:27:04 do we need transcendental numbers, really? imo no. 04:27:08 i want to sleeep 04:27:11 what are they actually 04:27:26 "the rational field extended with nth roots of unity for arbitrarily large integers n" i guess 04:27:46 "In number theory, a cyclotomic field is a number field obtained by adjoining a complex primitive root of unity to Q, the field of rational numbers." 04:27:50 i guess that's straightforward enough. 04:28:12 how are they represented? 04:28:29 god 04:28:30 bike 04:28:34 you don't care about me at all 04:28:34 data Cyclotomic = Cyclotomic { order :: Integer , coeffs :: M.Map Integer Rational } deriving (Eq) 04:28:38 no 04:28:45 elliott: you're being really annoying right now btw 04:28:49 kmc: its sure that microcontroller are not suitable for functionnal programming 04:28:50 haha as a polynomial, awesome. 04:28:53 elliott: maybe direct your annoyingness at yourself instead of at Bike 04:28:53 microcontroller have not enough ram for recursion 04:29:49 good representations of polynomials are something i should understand better really 04:31:57 hey Bike do you know the puzzle where you come up with some polynomial where all the coëfficients are nonnegative integers and tell me its value at any (positive) point and then i ask you for its value at another point 04:32:10 yeah, i think. 04:38:41 kmc: do you like algorithm, data structure, special thing, other paradigm... 04:39:03 shachaf, isn't that related to that secret sharing thing? I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to 04:39:17 Sgeo: I don't know what secret sharing thing, but probably not. 04:39:18 With sufficient points, you learn the polynomial, with insufficient points, you learn nothing 04:39:38 I only need to ask for one point. 04:39:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir's_Secret_Sharing 04:39:44 (After you give me one.) 04:40:06 Oh, then I have no idea 04:54:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:02:53 -!- JesseH has joined. 05:05:18 http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/88757/nice-well-orderings-of-the-reals agh 05:06:37 Shamir's Secret Sharing sounds like a spell in DC:SS. 05:09:05 And here I thought "well-ordering of the reals" meant something incredibly trivial and obvious 05:09:17 lol how'd you think that 05:09:39 I have no idea what "Lebesgue measurable" means 05:10:04 Ooh, I know what it means. Uh, almost. Lemme think. 05:10:42 the lebesgue measure of an interval is just the high minus the low. 05:10:49 then you build up unions, etc. 05:10:59 then you run into vitali sets and become the unabomber. 05:11:02 So how is it a Boolean? 05:11:11 what 05:11:15 First, there's this thing called the "outer measure" of a set. 05:11:21 who the hell said anything about bools 05:11:21 "Question: is it equiconsistent with reasonable large cardinals that there is a well-ordering of the reals which - as a relation on R2 - is Lebesgue measurable?" 05:11:30 tswett: re shamir: yes 05:11:34 what does that have to do with bools 05:11:39 http://shachaf.net/what-about-this-channel.txt 05:11:46 zero-knowledge proofs would be a good RPG power as well 05:11:51 404. 05:11:58 "This well-ordering is Lebesgue measurable" vs "This well-ordering is not Lebesgue measurable" 05:12:03 So let's say that a "boxing" of a set S is a countable set T of closed boxes, such that the union of T is a superset of S. 05:12:21 Sgeo: that's whether you /can/ measure it, i.e. that it has a measure, not what that measure is. 05:12:38 vitali sets are non-measurable, so's the well-ordering (as a relation in the usual construction of relations) 05:12:52 Vitali? 05:12:54 The measure of a boxing is just the sum of the sizes of all of the boxes. The outer measure of a set is the infimum of the measures of all of its boxings. 05:13:01 Vitali. 05:13:03 I'm going to go to sleep 05:13:06 named after a guy named Vitali. 05:13:46 Now, for all sets that have Lebesgue measure, the Lebesgue measure is equal to the outer measure. And a set is Lebesgue measurable if and only if it has a Lebesgue measure. 05:13:49 Oh! 05:13:52 R^2, not R 05:13:58 So the only remaining question is: what does it mean for a set to be measurable? 05:14:04 -roll- 05:14:19 And the answer is, uh... 05:14:43 I'm going to get some sleep. Sleep off the sleep deprivation drunk 05:14:51 get drunker 05:14:51 Whuch is different from actual drjnk 05:14:52 I dunno. Lemme look it up. 05:15:00 I don't like 'actual' stuff very much 05:15:40 I don't do genetic manipulation of actual animals, I don't get actual drunk 05:15:51 missing out imo 05:15:52 on both 05:16:02 have you considered getting mutants drunk 05:16:10 Okay. A set S is measurable if and only if for all sets A, the outer measure of A is the outer measure of A \ S plus the outer measure of A intersect S. 05:16:13 Apparently. 05:17:24 http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/137657/is-there-a-well-ordering-of-the-reals-measurable-or-not?lq=1 05:17:29 I'm even more confused now 05:17:41 Oh hey, I got the Nice Question badge for this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11870884/vim-says-no-mouse-support-but-only-when-i-run-git-commit 05:18:02 * Sgeo 's brain elided the word 'Nice' 05:18:11 So, Question badge... 05:18:38 "Is there a well-ordering of the reals after all, measurable or not?" lolololol 05:18:57 Do you get a badge at 50 answerpoints? 05:18:58 Sgeo: if you want to talk about it before you sleep, what's confusing 05:19:18 Bike, how the answer isn't trivially yes 05:19:41 Ok, so, what's a well ordering? 05:20:30 How there could exist two reals, a and b, for which none of (a < b) (a > b) (a = b) is correct. I guess there's more to it, such as consistency when c is introduced? 05:20:41 That's not a well order. 05:20:43 Bike: you know the sorcerer's apprentice? it's kind of like that 05:20:44 That's just a total order. 05:20:58 A well order is a total order + every subset has a least element. 05:21:24 Oh 05:21:46 Rationals aren't well-ordered then either, I think 05:21:48 < isn't a well order on the reals. For example, consider the nonzero positive reals. 05:22:01 Yeah, the usual ordering on the rational orders isn't well. 05:22:03 But, if you have the axiom of choice you can show that a well order does exist. 05:22:03 Wait, hmm 05:22:07 scandalous, I know 05:22:10 Nor is the usual ordering on the integers. 05:23:01 Hmm... Does the C spec actually specify there can't be more than 2^(CHAR_BIT * sizeof(void *)) distinct values of type void *? 05:23:45 does the C spec ever talk about cardinalities of types 05:24:01 Well, the question is whether C can be Turing-complete this way. 05:24:03 mostly implied by limits.h, aren't they? 05:24:16 limits.h for void *? 05:24:29 none. 05:24:41 would that include those int ptr things 05:24:44 it's okay to access a void* pointer as a bunch of uint8_t, right? by aliasing rules 05:24:53 so you could use that to show that constraint applies 05:24:56 I think it is totally valid to limit the possible values of void* to 32... 05:25:05 Fiora: Would it? 05:25:14 hmm, wait, 32 is too small, let's say it'd be 4096. 05:25:59 shachaf: like, if sizeof(void*) is x, and you access it as a series of x char values, then each char can have at most 2^CHAR_BIT values, so....? 05:26:23 I don't know, just a guess >_< 05:26:35 How many uint8_t do you need 05:26:36 Can you actually access it as a series of x char values, I mean? 05:26:39 Fiora: not exactly, since some representations of void* can be declared invalid. same goes for integers. 05:26:39 sizeof(void*)? 05:28:01 Fiora: let me quote a footnote in C99: In particular, if == is defined for type T, then x == y does not imply that memcmp(&x, &y, sizeof (T)) == 0. 05:28:07 lifthrasiir: it can be an upper bound though, right? 05:28:11 right 05:28:22 like it can't be a lower bound, but it can be an upper one, which is what shachaf asked for, right? or did I misunderstand 05:28:50 shachaf: void *y; char *x = (char*)&y; I guess? 05:29:23 Fiora: Well, sure you can write that code. I'm not sure whether it's actually allowed. 05:29:27 yeah, it is guaranteed that a conformant C program cannot access the infinite memory (but it can access the arbitrarily large memory). 05:29:40 lifthrasiir: Guaranteed where? 05:29:59 uh, sorry, wait a min, I may have misread the spec, 05:30:08 I thought intptr_t is mandatory but it wasn't 05:30:18 intptr_t is mandatory in C99, I think? 05:30:24 (any integer types including intptr_t are guaranteed to be finite) 05:30:37 but like, intptr_t is just "a type big enough to hold any pointer", isn't it? like, it's allowed to be bigger than void* 05:30:54 Well, it's still an upper bound, like you said. 05:30:57 yes, so I thought it is an ultimate upper bound. 05:31:03 (not tight one of course0 05:31:05 )* 05:31:15 I guess if you're allowed to cast to intptr_t and back that's enough... 05:31:18 it could be larger than 2^(sizeof(void*)*CHAR_BIT)... right...? 05:31:25 Right. 05:31:40 The goal was to figure out whether you can make a Turing-complete implementation of C, though. 05:32:15 hmm, sizeof() is guaranteed to return a finite result (the value of the result is implementation-defined, and not an undefined behavior) 05:32:34 Sure. 05:32:35 and CHAR_BIT should be finite either 05:32:39 oh... 05:32:43 so void* should be finite too 05:32:44 sorry, I didn't realize the context 05:32:52 lifthrasiir: void * has a finite sizeof. 05:33:06 The question was whether via a tricky reading of the rules you could have more than that many void * values. 05:33:22 (Well, in particular infinitely many.) 05:33:28 I think not 05:33:39 The intptr_t argument seems convincing, I guess. 05:34:18 Hmm, my stackoverflow question is up to 50 votes. 05:34:20 since C requires every non-bit-field values ("objects" in the spec) to be stored as an array of bytes of CHAR_BIT bits 05:34:23 Was that one of you? 05:34:27 I didn't get a badge. 05:34:50 such representation is explicitly called an "object representation" 05:34:58 and should exist for any non-bit-field values 05:35:06 including void* 05:35:31 (in fact, this also prohibits a native implementation of C in ternary computers) 05:36:22 well, language lawyering is fun! 05:42:08 -!- conehead has joined. 05:46:29 hey there are four operating RBMK reactors (Chernobyl design) about 233 km from Helsinki 05:50:11 and 70 km from St. Petersburg 05:50:28 are they like, upgraded 05:50:40 don't know 05:51:00 it's a fundamentally unsafe design 05:51:11 cool, cool 05:52:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK#Design_flaws_and_safety_issues 05:52:56 "based on 1950s Soviet technology and optimized for speed of production over redundancy, the RBMK was designed and constructed with several design characteristics that proved dangerously unstable when operated outside their design specifications" 05:52:58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK#Design_flaws_and_safety_issues 05:53:07 httpschaf 05:53:14 oh boy 05:55:20 soviet power plus irradiation of the whole country 05:56:28 the link mentions a few post-chernobyl improvements 05:58:22 not that comforting 05:58:55 "Legasov's death from suicide, " uh, whoa 06:01:34 "Scram is usually cited as being an acronym for safety control rod axe man" 06:02:12 «When I showed up on the balcony on that December 2, 1942 afternoon, I was ushered to the balcony rail, handed a well sharpened fireman's ax and told, "if the safety rods fail to operate, cut that manila rope."» haha 06:02:28 the life of a grad student 06:03:00 "Although Koehler did not serve as a rope-cutting control rod axe-man, he was responsible for dumping a bucket of aqueous cadmium solution into the reactor if reactor period entered into the sub-optimal range" 06:03:04 "the sub-optimal range" 06:08:08 "at which point the rods would fall by gravity into the reactor core" 06:08:28 oh they fall by _gravity_ 06:09:00 wait 06:09:06 i'm not in the same article anymore. 06:09:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scram i'm in this one in case you aren't doing the exact same random walk. 06:09:48 wait 06:09:52 okay i solved the mystery 06:10:02 i didn't get there from the link but from googling what you said. 06:11:50 weird cultural difference i guess. 06:12:40 really there's never a need to link something if the other person happens to have google 06:17:05 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:36:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:37:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 06:50:56 ☹ ☹ 06:50:58 · · 06:51:01 ☹ 06:51:03 /‾\ 06:51:06 06:51:08 ----- 06:51:11 / \ 06:51:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:58:20 what / why 06:58:56 oh i made it for a different channel but then i decided not to spam 06:58:59 what is it tho 06:59:02 also i think i saw it before 06:59:10 this might be a new version 06:59:18 v. 2.0 06:59:30 (not to spam "that channel" i mean...................well this channel might be unspammable) 06:59:53 kmc: when are you inventing the esolang "Main Page.".............................. 06:59:59 `welcome kmc 07:00:04 kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:00:14 later / neer 07:00:18 / never 07:30:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:31:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 07:33:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 07:35:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:36:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:38:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:44:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 07:59:50 the school i'm enrolled in it super hilly, to the extent that there's a place called Johnson Flats, which is not flat and is on a hill <-- wait aren't you in luxembourg i'm confuse 08:00:33 or at least somewhere european without english as first language 08:01:06 canada? 08:01:41 canada is not somewhere european without english as first language, olsner 08:02:27 isn't Bike in washington state usa 08:03:40 qwest.net seems to be owned by centurylink, which looks distinctly us 08:03:40 oerjan: ok, sorry for trying :( 08:04:07 kmc: I'VE BEEN DECEIVED 08:04:47 s/owned/swallowed by/ 08:06:37 oerjan made the neighbour prediction before taneb said he lived in northumberland <-- i think north (east?) england had been mentioned, though 08:07:44 `pastelogs next door 08:08:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24031 08:08:42 HackEgo: chop chop 08:09:57 I had said Northern 08:10:08 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-12#195258oerjan 08:12:40 was just looking for that 08:16:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:20:52 `pastaquotes 08:20:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastaquotes: not found 08:20:58 `pastaquote 08:20:59 973) I think pastaquote should just quote me 08:21:04 good, good 08:30:32 `pastequotes atriq 08:30:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28558 08:30:40 Taneb: YOU MISSED ONE 08:31:04 wtf there are no atriq quotes 08:31:07 ikr 08:32:00 i can only conclude that atriq is your bumbling hyde personality 08:32:12 Or maybe... 08:32:18 Maybe atriq is the Jekyll! 08:32:29 anyway, not very eloquent 08:32:51 Or maybe I just didn't use atriq as much 08:32:55 wait i just wondered... 08:33:31 no there cannot be any trailing space because it wasn't made by nick completion 08:33:49 `pastequotes Taneb 08:33:53 I didn't do `pastequotes atriq because I knew there weren't any 08:33:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16568 08:34:18 ho hum... 08:34:29 this cannot be right either 08:34:36 `pastequotes Taneb 08:34:41 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2234 08:35:04 `pastequotes Taneb 08:35:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27739 08:35:51 apparently there really are no quotes where Taneb is followed by space 08:36:01 sadly, this doesn't help with atriq 08:38:57 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:40:08 Nobody knows what happened to Facekicker for the past 8 years, though 08:40:28 are we _really_ absolutely sure they're different elliotts twh 08:40:42 Yeah, Facekicker's actually an Eliot 08:40:48 oh right 08:40:49 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:41:40 we might assume facekicker went on to a promising career in either kung fu movies or crime. 08:42:09 well, why not boh 08:42:11 *both 08:46:05 if you google elliott hird it's a mix of elliott and a kitchen planner 08:46:21 clearly his blog needs more posts hth 08:52:40 `addquote “Haiers Medical-Circular Stapler For Rectal Prolapse And Hemorrhoids.wmv” /me refrains from clicking good choice Yes, i’m pretty happy about it. 08:52:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:52:44 1056) “Haiers Medical-Circular Stapler For Rectal Prolapse And Hemorrhoids.wmv” /me refrains from clicking good choice Yes, i’m pretty happy about it. 08:52:53 `seen kmc 08:52:58 2013-06-20 08:02:27: isn't Bike in washington state usa 08:53:04 `seen shachaf 08:53:08 2013-06-20 08:53:04: `seen shachaf 08:53:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:03:15 http://modernjavascript.blogspot.com/2013/06/monads-in-plain-javascript.html 09:03:17 good old Maybe 09:05:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:05 -!- studentY has joined. 09:16:19 -!- studentY has left. 09:39:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:12:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:15:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:51:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:55:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:08:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:12:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:15:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:16:10 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:17:36 -!- dedda1994 has joined. 11:17:51 hey guys 11:19:01 `welcome dedda1994 11:19:04 dedda1994: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:19:07 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 11:24:54 Hi 11:26:50 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:28:15 -!- carado has joined. 11:28:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Client Quit). 11:28:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:31:27 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:03:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:08:44 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:12:13 -!- dedda1994 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:16:23 -!- olsner has joined. 12:18:00 -!- olsner has quit (Client Quit). 12:18:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:21:15 -!- augur has joined. 12:23:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:24:17 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:27:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:52:30 shachaf: This is best monad tutorial. 12:57:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:01:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:06:40 -!- augur has joined. 13:12:48 -!- olsner has joined. 13:16:04 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:31:44 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:42:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:45:49 -!- olsner has joined. 13:52:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:58:14 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:18:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:28:45 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:54:56 -!- hogeyui____ has changed nick to hogeyui. 14:55:30 -!- hogeyui has changed nick to hogeyui_. 14:55:32 -!- hogeyui_ has changed nick to hogeyui. 15:00:39 -!- clog has joined. 15:06:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 15:09:50 hi clog 15:12:54 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:04:07 hi clog. 16:04:44 hi Bike 16:05:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:05:23 -!- heroux has joined. 16:06:14 hi elliott 16:06:49 hi Bike 16:07:02 hi 16:12:13 :') 16:12:45 does anyone know about the identify-msg IRC CAP 16:12:48 i bet one of the finns do 16:12:51 hey Deewiant hey ion 16:13:46 Never heard of it 16:14:08 thanks 16:14:55 sounds like bullshit 16:32:23 -!- guestbot has joined. 16:51:22 -!- hiato has joined. 16:55:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:34 -!- augur has joined. 17:11:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:21:50 If you have a bunch of groups, all of different sizes, then the groups are totally ordered by order. 17:24:14 -!- olsner has joined. 17:24:48 hi oerjan 17:25:08 hichaf 17:25:13 hi elliott 17:25:14 hello shachaf 17:25:41 tswett: that's like totally rad 17:25:50 actually, hello *everybody* 17:25:56 -!- augur has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 17:26:01 -!- conehead has joined. 17:26:05 hello everybody except clog and elliott 17:26:14 helsner 17:26:17 http://www.theonion.com/articles/mcdonalds-considering-franchising-restaurants-afte,32897/ 17:26:58 Hello, everybody in all possible worlds. 17:27:51 wow, that's awefully inclusive of you 17:27:58 The world is changing, and frankly we’re running out of family members who speak Mandarin 17:31:10 btw did you know mcdonalds isn't a trademark in scotland, and they need the actual clan's permission to use it? 17:32:14 That explains why they only sell the McHaggis Quarter Pounder with Bladder there. 17:32:16 haha that's fantastic 17:32:58 fun fact: McDonald's was originally named cDonald's, after the theorem. the famous arches were originally circular. 17:33:46 oh i guess using "circular" ruins that 17:33:55 elliott: why? 17:34:01 there's a cDonald theorem? 17:34:20 haven't you seen look around you. 17:34:31 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cDonald's%20Theorem 17:34:43 -!- augur has joined. 17:34:50 oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J9MRYJz9-4#t=24s 17:36:08 i love how they pronounce "cDonald" 17:38:43 hm i'm wondering if what i said was actually true. 17:39:14 the following looks like a counterargument: "The company has threatened many food businesses with legal action unless it drops the Mc or Mac from trading names. In one noteworthy case, McDonald's sued a Scottish café owner called McDonald, even though the business in question dated back over a century (Sheriff Court Glasgow and Strathkelvin, November 21, 1952)." 17:40:30 MacGregor's Quarter Pounder with Scotch 17:40:46 lol 17:43:33 oerjan, the clan thing might have been established later 17:49:24 hm looks more and more dubious 17:49:33 tragic 17:49:57 which makes me wonder where i first read it 18:06:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:24 oerjan: Fortunately, there's no requirement at all for "did you know that X?" statements to actually be true. 18:26:52 s/Fortunately,/did you know that/ hth 18:27:39 -!- augur has joined. 18:28:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:31 helliott 18:35:51 ion: hi do you know about identify-msg CAP 18:36:37 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:36:43 no 18:37:15 you suck 18:37:17 :( 18:37:53 I know now. 18:38:40 but do you know enough to answer my questions about it 18:39:02 Let me travel to the future to find out. 18:44:13 It's a cap, and when you equip it, it may randomly identify items hth 18:46:27 fizzie: Sorry, no. It only identities monosodium glutamate. 18:49:15 sounds like something triangle and robert could have used 18:56:42 Why the hell do I like PHP on Facebook 18:59:16 Well, I don't any more 19:03:52 php has a facebook? 19:04:51 yup 19:17:52 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:18:16 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:23:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:27:07 meet hot single in YOUR area who like PHP 19:28:00 hot singleton 19:28:07 meet hot shot young hustler jesus in your area 19:29:52 -!- Bike has joined. 19:30:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:32:21 -!- augur has joined. 19:34:35 https://www.facebook.com/PHP wow 19:35:14 "Yeah! Not a day to soon. Death to C# and java B)" 19:35:50 the changelog's a bit scary 19:35:52 Added ARMv7/v8 versions of various Zend arithmetic functions that are implemented using inline assembler 19:36:04 I have three FB friends who like PHP. D-: 19:36:11 oh man they added finally. finally 19:36:16 Wow, they're already doing ARMv8 stuff 19:36:23 every time someone mentions Zend i think of Zond 19:36:41 kneel before zend 19:36:52 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_rocket 19:36:56 "Added support for using empty() on the result of function calls and other expressions" huh? 19:37:03 "Each of the four attempts to launch an N1 failed; during the second launch attempt the N1 rocket crashed back onto its launch pad shortly after liftoff and exploded, resulting in one of the largest artificial non-nuclear explosion in human history" 19:37:13 wooow. 30 main engines @_@ 19:37:33 "Fixed bug #64515 (Memoryleak when using the same variablename 2times in function declaration)" um 19:37:39 entertainingly those engines are actually the ones being used in the 'new' nasa cargo rocket they were showing off a while back 19:37:44 "After detecting the inoperative fuel pump, the automatic engine control shut off 29 of 30 engines, which caused the rocket to fall." 19:37:48 good programming imo 19:37:51 lol 19:38:13 oh, wait, i've heard of N1, isn't it the one that vaporized half the engineers in the soviet union 19:38:21 20:36:55 "Added support for using empty() on the result of function calls and other expressions" huh? 19:38:26 php has a lot of nice things which only work on variable names 19:38:29 for no apparent reason 19:38:32 Bike, ...maybe 19:38:34 isn't 30 engines like a redundancy nightmare? @_@ that's a lot of parts 19:38:37 elliott: good, good 19:38:41 you have to assign stuff to variables a lot to be able to like index them as arrays or whatever 19:38:42 if just one fails it'd throw things off balance, right? 19:38:44 for no good reason 19:38:57 no, that thing was an icbm prototype 19:39:01 Fiora, depends 19:39:11 Phantom_Hoover: oh 19:39:21 if you have 30 then it's not that big a torque and you might be able to correct with your control systems 19:39:24 ah 19:39:27 yeah i thought it was an R-7 test 19:39:34 that's what they did when one of the engines in the falcon 9 test failed 19:39:36 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=64523 what the /hell/ 19:39:49 When destination folder of a copy haven't enough place, copy reports success instead of failure. 19:40:22 Fixed bug #64895 (Integer overflow in SndToJewish) 19:40:37 what 19:40:45 sndtojewish 19:41:01 kmc: can i hire you to work out how to get a good deal on EC2 for me 19:41:10 i think it's about the hebrew calendar? 19:41:20 @g jdtojewish 19:41:20 Maybe you meant: gazetteer get-shapr get-topic ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki v @ ? . 19:41:23 er. 19:41:26 @google jdtojewish 19:41:27 http://php.net/manual/en/function.jdtojewish.php 19:41:28 Title: PHP: jdtojewish - Manual 19:41:32 what the hell is girl19 19:41:48 "Converts a Julian day count to a Jewish calendar date" 19:41:50 yeah i need that. 19:42:08 that should definitely be in the default global namespace 19:43:05 man it doesn't even report a bad value, it just hangs 19:43:10 how great is that 19:43:13 php great 19:43:33 «That is, you cannot do `SELF::CNST` or `SELF::$VAR` or `SELF::METHOD()`. But it's possible to use `constant("SELF::CNST")` or `call_user_func` with uppercase `SELF` keyword.» 19:44:06 «if use '@', you can call function in a string substitution context.» help 19:44:35 paging elliott 19:44:44 i should put a highlight on @ 19:44:46 elliott: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61681 you need this feature, imo 19:45:40 @get-sh 19:45:40 shapr!! 19:45:42 so weird 19:45:45 @t 19:45:45 Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? . 19:45:46 @girl19 19:45:46 LOL 19:45:47 @te 19:45:47 Who should I tell? 19:45:50 @girl19 19:45:50 LOL 19:45:50 hmm 19:45:54 this seems dumb 19:45:55 @girl19 19:45:55 I've always found myself unequal to the intellectual pressure of programming 19:45:57 what 19:45:59 um. 19:46:01 @help girl19 19:46:01 girl19 wonders what "discriminating hackers" are. 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 well.. I never hacked Russians 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 I'm in Moscow, Russia 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 I have stolen about 50 msn and yahoo accounts 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 am I supposed to be frantic with terror and anxiety? 19:46:17 y'all need a db of all these damn injokes 19:46:33 oh hey. "This extension is now deprecated, and deprecation warnings will be generated when connections are established to databases via mysql_connect(), mysql_pconnect(), or through implicit connection: use MySQLi or PDO_MySQL instead" 19:46:36 elliott: hey i have a lambdabot proposal "can you guess what it is" 19:46:43 i wonder how many security bugs that would remove 19:46:52 it's great how there's no uniform db api in php 19:46:58 totally different functions for mysql, postgres, etc 19:47:06 wonder whether i should remove the unique prefix behaviour along with the specialcasing of unique spell corrections 19:47:15 Generator is an internal class, so there shouldn't be an ability to create it by hand. However, the Generator class doesn't have a private constructor and instance of it can be created via ReflectionClass. 19:47:19 Solution: add a private constructor for this class to prevent instantiation (like for Closure class). 19:47:22 awesome and rad 19:47:32 I was thinking more along the lines of removing @girl19. 19:47:51 Fixed bug #60097 (token_get_all fails to lex nested heredoc) 19:47:54 The prefix thing is OK. 19:48:19 i was ignoring your proposal actually 19:48:26 this is something i was already looking into!! 19:48:26 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=64765 these are so great 19:49:27 ok uh, this SndToJewish thing is listed as being fixed, three different times 19:49:42 what list are you reading 19:50:04 is Snd... "standard"? it looks like "sound" 19:50:07 the changelog http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-5.php 19:50:32 http://www.scip.ch/en/?vuldb.9021 oh my god. 19:50:40 this is my new favorite bug 19:51:11 woow 19:51:25 that sndtojewish thing resulted in a critical exploit? geez 19:51:51 what do you mean there are reasons not to stuff every library into the core of your language 19:52:01 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=54096 geez these are really weird 19:52:39 php has a built in julian to hebrew calendar conversion function, fiora. it is beyond weird. 19:53:04 I mean like I feel like I'm missing 90% of this 19:53:06 "comparsion of incomplete DateTime causes SIGSEGV" good, good 19:53:12 "PHP defines -0 as an int", but wouldn't -0 just resolve to 0? 19:53:20 not in php it wouldn't 19:53:32 and there's this filter function that "checks if values are ints", but if you wanted to see if a float was int, wouldn't you just do if( floor(f) == f )? 19:53:42 ... well I guess there's infinities and things 19:53:58 ... if( (float)(int)f == f )? 19:54:08 wow this is bad 19:54:17 Bike: um... explain? >_< 19:54:26 i have no idea 19:54:33 i don't know php, i just see endless insane bug reports 19:55:02 the whole "this is an interpreted language but it works differently on 32-bit and 64-bit" seems really weird too 19:55:18 there was one bug where the put in inline amd64 assembly but didn't conditionalize it 19:55:21 gj people 19:55:24 @_@ 19:55:34 Fiora: sadly ghc haskell has that too 19:55:38 Int is platform-dependent size 19:56:17 kmc: well ghc is primarily a compiler so depending on your interpretation of "that" 19:56:27 though it has many traits people relate to "interpreted languages", of course 19:56:49 isn't int platform-dependent in C 19:56:53 yeah I meant for high level languages 19:56:54 does... does php have data types? 19:56:55 Bike: yes 19:57:19 i mean having a type that's defined to have a max that varies by platform seems fine to me 19:57:20 the only thing worse than platform-dependent sized Int is platform-independent sized Int 19:57:40 plus doesn't the haskell standard say it has to be at least 2^31 or whatever 19:57:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:57:50 Bike: yeah, but like, it has builtin functions that work differently on 32-bit and 64-bit which seems really weird 19:57:55 Bike: makes semantics of haskell programs much less clear, causes portability problems, severely hurts distributed computing 19:57:55 Fiora: not as you know them. not as any of us know thelm 19:57:55 the mandated range is just -2^29 .. 2^29-1 19:58:12 how's it hurt distributed computing 19:58:13 ? 19:58:21 allowing 32-bit implementations to reserve 2 bits for tagging 19:58:39 right 19:58:43 Bike: because you have a single program where multiple parts of it run on heterogeneous machines 19:58:54 so Int means different things at different points of your program 19:58:58 and can store different values 19:59:06 and will get messed up communicating between agents that disagree about its size 19:59:09 so like, for portability it's better to use Integer? 19:59:13 so you have to completely avoid Int if you want sanity 19:59:21 Fiora: or the fixed-size Int32/Int64 19:59:24 ahhh 19:59:44 does Int32 fit in 32-bit? or like, does it not fit because of tag bits? 19:59:57 it's boxed :x 20:00:03 so it is actually a pointer to a 32-bit integer 20:00:13 oooh 20:00:13 (except GHC can automatically unbox it when you use it as a strict field of a data type with optimisations and blah blah blah) 20:00:16 (so it's not quite as bad as it sounds) 20:00:19 is Int boxed? 20:00:24 yeah 20:00:29 oh, so *everything* is boxed? 20:00:36 It's a pointer to a machine integer, actually -- just the operations on it truncate to 32 bits. 20:00:37 more or less (GHC has unboxed types that are fiddly to use) 20:00:49 if you have like a tight numerical loop though GHC will usually be able to unbox everything "at the start" 20:00:50 Yes, only boxed values are first-class in Haskell in general. 20:00:56 and then work with unboxed values for the loop itself 20:00:57 so like, if I have an array of 1 million ints, will it be 1 million boxes, or a box with 1 million things? 20:01:07 there are both boxed and unboxed arrays 20:01:13 so it can be either depending on which is better 20:01:16 If you use an unboxed array it'll have 1 million Ints. 20:01:17 ahhh 20:01:26 and a boxed array will have 1 million unboxed ints? 20:01:40 No, it'll have a million boxes. 20:01:41 1 million boxed ints 20:01:48 oh. I thought ints were boxed 20:02:00 er, I think we mixed up something at some point 20:02:02 an "unboxed array" means a boxed array of unboxed things, probably 20:02:04 "(un)boxed array" means it's an array of (un)boxed things. 20:02:04 ahhh 20:02:08 right 20:02:13 so an unboxed array of 1m ints is 4 megabytes 20:02:16 (on 32-bit) 20:02:17 an unboxed array of Ints knows what Ints are a box around 20:02:20 and a boxed one would be 8 megabytes? 20:02:20 plus epsilon 20:02:21 and stores that instead 20:02:34 Fiora: depending on sizes of boxes etc. 20:02:35 Fiora: well, boxed values have like additional pointers in addition to the actual data they store 20:02:36 Probably more than 8 megabytes... 20:02:43 boxed arrays can have lazy values can't they 20:02:47 to facilitate lazy evaluation and such 20:02:53 and it means access has a lot more indirection in a boxed array 20:03:01 Bike: right 20:03:06 I think a boxed Int takes two machine words, and the pointer in the array takes an additional machine word. 20:03:11 (fwiw, advantage of boxed arrays is that they can store everything, whereas unboxed arrays need to know things about what they store, and you can store thunks (unfinished computations) in boxed arrays, whereas in unboxed arrays you can only store evaluated results, so no fancy laziness tricks) 20:03:13 every element is a pointer to a heap object, which can be a thunk 20:03:23 oh, boxed values have more than just the value itself plus a pointer to it? 20:03:31 well since this is haskell 20:03:35 there are lazy values 20:03:48 ah 20:03:55 which like kmc said are thunky 20:03:57 right it's important to note that an Int value might be a pointer to *some code* 20:04:00 that you haven't evaluated yet 20:04:08 but an unboxed integer is just a plain old integer 20:04:13 Fiora: a 'boxed value' is a heap object, or a pointer to one. heap objects have a uniform structure, the first word is always a pointer to an 'info table' 20:04:24 and then they have zero or more data fields which can have different sizes 20:04:33 the uniformity is what allows polymorphic code to work 20:04:41 ah... so it'd be at least 12 megabytes 20:04:43 you can force evaluation of a heap object without knowing its type 20:04:44 minus laziness? 20:04:46 elliott: but uh, when you say can store everything, they're uniformly typed anyway aren't they 20:05:01 I am probably looking at this totally wrong and thinking of haskell as if it was like C <.< 20:05:03 Unless some of the Ints are shared, anyway. 20:05:10 you might find the STG machine paper interesting if you're interested in the details of how this stuff works, though I think it's fairly different in GHC nowadays (in particular their "spineless tagless G-machine" has tags???) 20:05:14 yeah you can't really reason about storage very well, can you? 20:05:20 Bike: yeah but I mean you can make an Array a for any a 20:05:22 Perhaps http://spl.smugmug.com/Humor/Lambdacats/13227630_j2MHcg/960526161_XwKHSBM#!i=960526161&k=XwKHSBM&lb=1&s=L can clarify. 20:05:25 it doesn't have the kind of tags they're talking about not having in the STG paper 20:05:32 whereas like an unboxed array will require some condition on what "a" is so it knows how to store it unboxed 20:05:33 GHC doesn't use tag bits to distinguish pointers from integers 20:05:39 somebody here linked me to a paper where whatshisname was like "you can reason about space! weird, huh" 20:05:41 it does use tag bits on pointers to mark things which are already known to be evaluated 20:06:02 it's not impossible to reason about space usage of Haskell programs, but it's definitely less simple than in C or whatever 20:06:44 there's also sharing, like if you store 4+7 into an array a million times it'll all use the same thunk? 20:06:47 right? 20:06:54 assuming you store the "same" 4+7 20:06:54 into a boxed array yeah 20:07:02 it'll store the same pointer a bajillion times 20:07:04 let x = 4+7 in listArray [0,1000] (repeat x) 20:07:32 4+7 is sort of a bad example since it might get like constant folded and stuff but the principle, yeah 20:07:35 oh, does ghc not pick out common subexpressions like that 20:07:42 it does it very conservatively 20:07:47 because you can introduce bad space leaks that way 20:07:49 elliott: Well, it'll get shared whether it's an unevaluated thunk or not. 20:07:49 yeah i figured but it's easier to say than (foo y) 20:08:13 shachaf: does GHC not like preallocate a bunch of Ints for small values? 20:08:14 well anyway, to sum up, fiora, php is dumb 20:08:18 which would distort the idea 20:09:14 Fixed bug #43177 (Errors in eval()'ed code produce status code 500). 20:09:37 okay... 20:09:41 Bike: um, unrelatedly, http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/404.pdf 20:09:53 sharing is p. cool. in Haskell if you implement a binary tree with an insert function, in the most obvious naive way, you get a cool persistent data structure where new versions of the tree share nodes with old ones 20:10:04 Fiora: wassat. 20:10:21 and this isn't some crazy compiler optimization either, it's p. much fundamental to the language's data model 20:10:21 kmc: that requires changing your notion of "obvious" 20:10:25 it's a super lightweight block cipher 20:10:39 ooh 20:10:50 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:11:01 "With regard to throughput, we note that the fastest reported software implementation of AES-128 available on an Atmel 8-bit microcontroller has a cost of 125 cycles/byte, and uses 1912 bytes of flash and 432 bytes of SRAM [BOSC10]. For a slight decrease in speed, the same 20:11:05 implementers offer a more balanced implementation with a cost of 135 cycles/byte, using 1912 bytes of flash and 176 bytes of SRAM. Our high-speed Speck128/128 implementation has comparable throughput, at 139 cycles/byte, but uses only 388 bytes of flash and 256 bytes of SRAM." 20:11:24 flash 20:11:30 they have a hardware optimized one and a software optimized one 20:11:33 > 139/2 20:11:34 the hardware optimized one can be done in like, ~1300 gates 20:11:34 69.5 20:11:41 that's only 69.5 bicycles/byte! 20:11:45 ... shachaf XD 20:11:53 good rate. 20:12:13 god, half these bugs are about segfaults 20:12:37 almost like the PHP interpreter is a C program written by idiots 20:12:44 "Fixed bug #63369 ((un)serialize() leaves dangling pointers, causes crashes)" 20:13:43 Fixed bug #62896 ("DateTime->modify('+0 days')" modifies DateTime object) <-- what. 20:14:56 also laziness is important if you want good performance from persistent data structures 20:15:10 alright "segfault" is in here 276 times 20:16:14 "fault", 483. 20:16:21 that has a lot of "default" though i guess whatever 20:16:25 `pastlog segfault 20:16:50 2010-02-14.txt:20:49:06: Sweet, I made a megahal brain that segfaults >_> 20:17:22 megahal 20:17:42 Fiora: oh man NSA is this Top Secret 20:18:17 eeheee 20:18:21 no it's public I think 20:18:23 like just published 20:29:50 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:45 i think this is that disaster Bike and Phantom_Hoover referred to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe 20:33:53 yeah 20:34:00 (oops, forgot the link) 20:34:37 yeah, that's the one. 20:35:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:40:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:33 `words 20:41:36 ser 20:41:38 -!- guestbot has left. 20:44:50 Jeg ser, jeg ser... / Jeg er visst kommet på en feil klode! / Her er så underlig... 21:01:17 http://www.theonion.com/articles/10-giant-cocks,32276/ attn kmc 21:01:26 WELL THEN 21:01:57 oh these aren't that big 21:02:15 ok the elephant cock is pretty big 21:03:44 how does the nsa thing keep getting worse. helllllp 21:06:09 what now 21:06:28 just looking through @0xabad1dea's feed 21:06:51 "Speaking your username aloud on a phone call to another country is evidence the person behind the username is foreign" etc 21:07:16 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:09:24 hey. wait a minute. ELLIOTTCABLE is here. 21:09:29 what's happening 21:11:35 "Ahhhh youtube 502 ahhhhh I cant reach my touhous" 21:11:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: NSACABLE). 21:12:17 lol 21:19:08 Right. 21:19:57 Work done is difference in kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is mass times velocity is force times distance. These are both measured in Joules 21:20:35 Bike: see, you just have to have *plush* touhous 21:20:39 then you can reach them whenever ! 21:20:40 Power is energy by time, it is measure in Js^-1 or Watts 21:21:06 are you taking a kinetics class 21:21:18 Fiora: what if the plush is kidnapped 21:21:25 Bike, hopefully past tense. The exam is in less than 11 hours 21:21:50 nobody's kidnapped mine!~ 21:22:15 https://room208.org/booru/data/9160f5fe9e4332617661b5d4f548dcd4.jpg seee they're all safe and sound 21:22:36 Whoa, power is also force times velocity? 21:23:28 probably 21:23:29 yes 21:23:36 Fiora: i'm pretty sure there are so many you could easily lose one 21:23:37 THIS SUMMER... THE COCKS COLLIDE (it was a video) 21:23:38 !!!! 21:24:08 I haven't lost any! 21:24:10 I keep good track of my friends 21:24:59 then why is there a meduka there who did she eat 21:24:59 what about non-plush friends 21:25:02 that sure is, uh 21:25:03 organised 21:25:04 plush or minush 21:25:25 I'm only responsible for friends who live in my apartment <.<; 21:25:45 Fiora: How often do they double? 21:25:49 ummmm 21:25:56 And potential energy is mass times height times the gravitational constant 21:25:59 let's see. I had like half as many ~12-16 months ago ish? 21:26:07 * constant looks at Taneb 21:26:10 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 21:26:20 Sorry, trout 21:26:41 Fiora: OK, so let's say it's like Moore's law. 21:27:13 shachaf, it seems a little quicker than Moore's law 21:27:24 I think it's more like an S curve? 21:27:34 what is the optimal plushie count 21:27:55 I'm... not sure there is one in particular? 21:27:55 Bike: one more than whatever you have right now hth 21:27:56 Where the hell is Hitchin 21:28:20 well you said s curve 21:28:31 what's the asymptote! 21:28:46 well I'm mostly running out, I don't have many touhou ones I don't have I think 21:28:49 and most are like, permanently out of sto k 21:28:55 there's new ones but only like, every reitaisai 21:28:59 i see like three reimus 21:29:09 two! 21:29:10 can't you trade two of them for a more obscure touhou 21:29:23 could you fashion one into another 21:29:36 you can make custom plushies but it's a lot of sewing work and stuff 21:29:58 i'm thinking more... cosmetic surger 21:29:58 y 21:30:27 marisa -> maribel let's make it happen 21:31:09 I'd have to make new clothes and stuff <: 21:31:11 I remember something about http://www.geocities.jp/igarashi_lab/plushie/index-e.html from a SIGGRAPH. 21:32:00 I totally should have gotten all the madoka plushies when they were still in stock though 21:32:26 I'm away for an hour and people start talking about touhou-plushies, what is this? 21:32:47 Fiora happened 21:32:48 ##fiorateric 21:33:18 ##fiora is a thing. 21:33:19 nortti: are you somehow... surprised by #esoteric's drifting topic 21:33:20 fizzie: cute 21:33:23 haven't you been here forever 21:33:23 Wait, Fiora left! 21:33:48 well, I have 21:33:59 have you been touhou forever 21:34:00 Fiora: There are four people in ##fiora now! 21:34:05 nortti: https://room208.org/booru/data/9160f5fe9e4332617661b5d4f548dcd4.jpg um, I posted this 21:34:13 You wouldn't want us to talk about you behind your back, would you? 21:34:25 oh wow, that's alot 21:34:30 wow that doesn't sound like a creepy threat at all shachaf 21:34:37 shachaaaf 21:34:37 :D 21:34:47 ##fiora: now w/ fiora 21:34:49 Bike: :-( 21:34:59 it's about four years of accumulated plushies! they're good for filling the rest of a queen size bed 21:35:00 Fiora: no threat intended 21:35:02 wow 21:35:16 can you just make the bed out of plushies 21:35:27 why do you need a queen size bed! double beds are bourgeoisie 21:35:33 uh for all the plushies 21:35:34 hth 21:35:50 it was like $50 or $100 extra? and I like being able to roll around and sprawl out and stuff 21:35:57 and I kind of have a bad tendency to somehow steal all the blankets 21:36:03 from yourself 21:36:06 yes 21:36:11 Phantom_Hoover: i think you will find that big beds are the best, hth. 21:36:20 elliott knows his stuff 21:36:23 take that, yourself!! 21:36:23 it's true 21:36:45 I can basically lie down on it in any direction and fit 21:36:47 i slept in a tiny bunk bed since i was like 3 and you don't hear me complaining! 21:36:51 also it's hard to fit more than two people in a bed smaller than a queen 21:36:53 check your short privilege, fiora 21:36:54 Fiora: have you considered getting a cat hth 21:37:01 I have! I'm also allergic 21:37:04 but I stlil want a cat 21:37:12 get a pet you're not allergic to then 21:37:12 have you considered that life without a cat is no life at all 21:37:16 like a tarantula 21:37:19 or seven 21:37:20 hundred 21:37:21 I'm... not good with sipders 21:37:23 *spiders 21:37:23 though i think it's hard for more than two people to /sleep/ in the same bed, period 21:37:29 how about a snake 21:37:38 Bike: you tall people can like, get a king or something anyways 21:37:58 at school orientation there was one guy tall enough that he didn't fit in the dorm beds 21:38:01 p. tragic 21:38:03 kmc: Reading _The Door into Summer_ made me want to live with cats again. :-( 21:38:14 Fiora, I have a double bed but I curl up small 21:38:14 (he was like seven foot probably) 21:38:15 california king 21:38:27 kmc: are you going to become king of california 21:38:30 doubtful 21:38:34 what's the biggest bed in the universe #drugz 21:38:36 i'll vote for you for king hth 21:38:58 elliott: the universe is my bed hth 21:39:07 shachaf: that's not how king works 21:39:11 well sometimes but rarely 21:39:17 plushies are good though, I tend to cling to them in my sleep instead of the blankets 21:39:22 though sometimes Iflail and knock them onto the floor to 21:39:37 kmc: when i'm king i'll change how king works 21:39:44 I could probably quite comfortably sleep in this spinny office chair 21:39:48 im googling "huge bed" now #drugz 21:39:49 Fiora, do you have to put them back or you feel guilty 21:40:01 I don't actually leave them all on there all the time <.< that was just for the picture 21:40:07 these beds arent very huge 21:40:09 it's usually a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle messier 21:40:40 these are just fairly big beds 21:40:43 come ON google 21:40:47 what if you got a trampoline 21:40:50 i'm pretty sure i should make autonomous plushies 21:40:51 and put a sheet on it 21:40:55 so they put themselves back on the bed 21:41:00 other advantages: easy to film horror movies 21:41:01 Are there official definitions of what these "queen" and "king" sizes are? 21:41:05 so like, toy story? 21:41:07 fizzie: yes 21:41:14 fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_sizes#Standard_North_American_sizes 21:41:16 like toy story but soft 21:41:23 why is there furry porn and a picture of some socks. this is the worst image search ever 21:41:27 and possibly with jetpacks, because climbing is a pretty hard behavior. 21:41:28 im going to try "gigantic bed" instead 21:41:31 fizzie: also did you see my terrifying fact about RBMK reactors 21:41:35 and did you already know 21:41:46 terrifying RBMK fact: RBMK is real 21:41:46 oh it suggested "biggest bed in the world" lets go with that 21:41:46 Fiora: Aw, no ISO beds. 21:42:06 http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/07/article-1178094-04D70DB8000005DC-311_634x466.jpg now THATS what i call a big bed 21:42:07 Isn't there an ISO standard on how to make tea? 21:42:10 kmc: I did not see any fact about RBMK reactors at all. 21:42:20 elliott: but big enough?? imo, no. 21:42:21 elliott, that's what I call dailymail.co.uk 21:42:22 elliott, i don't think that's a proper matress 21:42:23 fizzie: there are four operational RBMK reactors about 230 km from Helsinki 21:42:32 is the daily mail good 21:42:39 no it is the opposite of good 21:43:02 Taneb: yes ISO 3103, although it's not designed to produce the most delicious tea, just a standard tea for comparative purposes 21:43:34 kmc: Are they in St. Petersburg or something? 21:43:56 kmc: are you serious 21:44:09 The method consists in extracting of soluble substances in dried tea leaf, containing in a porcelain or earthenware pot, by means of freshly boiling water, pouring of the liquor into a white porcelain or earthenware bowl, examination of the organoleptic properties of the infused leaf, and of the liquor with or without milk, or both. 21:44:14 oh my god 21:44:19 Daily Mail is the newspaper that says "life is getting worse! porn everywhere! immigrants everywhere stealing our jobs! cancer everywhere! foxes everywhere! too many badgers! not enough badgers! immigrants buying our factories and giving us jobs!" 21:44:29 The work was the winner of the parodic Ig Nobel Prize for Literature in 1999. 21:44:31 elliott: Unsurprisingly it's originally a British Standard. 21:44:32 fizzie: yeah nearby 21:45:02 immigrants stealing our badger cancer 21:45:07 @tell mnoqy attn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103 21:45:07 Consider it noted. 21:45:15 http://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com/ 21:45:21 Anyway, goodnight! 21:45:24 elliott: http://www.keepbanderabeautiful.org/earth-hospital-bed-i.jpg 21:45:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:45:37 thats a pretty big bed 21:45:43 looks uncomfortable though. 21:46:07 "400 - Bad Request" that's a "bad", not "bed". (I don't know why happen.) 21:46:37 no finns allowed 21:46:42 alt. no speech recognisers 21:47:00 It seems to be so. 21:47:42 wait. i recognize speech. 21:47:54 you're a bicycle. 21:47:57 elliott: uh i'm a finn 21:48:00 elliott: checkmate 21:50:05 I believe our common bed widths here are 80, 90, 120, 160 and 180 cm. 21:50:56 ideally you would have a room that's just all bed 21:51:00 those numbers make more sense than ours <.< 21:51:04 i don't really see much of a use for non-bed areas of a room 21:51:13 but you need an area for your dresser, a hamper 21:51:16 an area to change clothes, a mirror 21:51:27 maybe a nightstand and alarm clock and stuff 21:51:29 these sound like less efficient uses of space than more bed 21:51:36 and like, a pathway to exit the room and maybe a bathroom 21:51:36 I guess you could make one of the walls out of mirror 21:51:45 Fiora: The 120 cm size is kind of a weird, I think, since it's really quite wide for one, but also quite narrow for two. (Still, it's not *that* wide.) 21:52:04 what if you just replaced the floor with a mattress. 21:52:09 Bike: this is my thinking yes 21:52:14 I wonder why the "twin" is the smallest size 21:52:23 Like, fitting two people on a twin sounds a little uncomfortable 21:52:46 -!- conehead has joined. 21:53:14 fitting two people in any bed is kind of tenuous imo 21:53:18 Also I recently saw the layouts of the apartments they're building nearby, and the smallest ones have bedrooms where the bed fills the entire width of the room; there are separate doors out from the bedroom (into the living room area) from both sides of the ends of the room, but you can't go around the bed without going to another room. 21:53:33 I could probably fit 2 or 3 of me in my bed 21:53:37 http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/27810/why-do-americans-call-single-beds-twin-beds 21:53:50 Fiora: but do you 21:53:54 Fiora: hey are you doing cloning now 21:54:09 the question is why you would want to 21:54:10 well that's kind of the thing I don't have a cloning machine 21:54:22 haven't you ever read cavlin + hobbes 21:54:22 can i have a Fiora clone 21:54:26 ==Bike 21:54:34 having a friend would be nice 21:54:43 Our current bed is 160 cm, except you could argue it's not, since in reality it's two 80 cm beds with an extra mattress (160 cm wide, ~5 cm thick) on top to get rid of the gap in the middle. 21:54:49 Fiora: you would be too shy to make friends with yourself 21:55:05 elliott: flanking maneuevers, sleeping in shifts to avoid being snuck up on 21:57:29 I'm not sure... maybe you're right, shachaf ... 21:58:16 i mean, it would be Fiora^2 shyness 21:59:35 at least I'd know a priori that she was just as much an emotional wreck as I am! 22:00:43 do you feel more comfortable around people who are emotional wrecks? 22:01:02 I don't really know 22:01:07 well, everybody's an emotional wreck, so that works out pretty conveniently. 22:01:31 Bike: ChanServ isn't an emotional wreck! 22:02:33 have you even talked to chanserv 22:02:40 chanserv isn't just a slab of meat 22:03:30 what is ChanServ a slab of 22:03:41 slabs of meat. 22:04:07 elliott: i failed to find a bed bigger than that one 22:04:40 hmm. I'd have someone to talk with assembly code and stuff about 22:05:32 if i had clones i'd specialize, so that we would have different things to talk about. 22:05:45 but still keep some genericism because doing one thing is boring. 22:05:46 yeah, that would be pretty nice 22:05:47 you can talk with us about that!! hth 22:05:58 like if I can have a fiora who knows all kinds of stuff in other topics and she can teach me lots of things 22:06:16 like neurobiolo-- oh, wait, I already have one of those :3 22:06:19 Bike: if you had a clone you would probably fight to the death "you're just that aggressive" 22:06:25 neurobiolo++ 22:07:13 Fiora: alas i'm not as cute or plushful. 22:07:24 also yeah i'd probably have at least like, nine clones learn german swordfighting. 22:07:26 pff you are pretty cute <.< 22:07:44 "but plushful, nah, i OWN you on that front motherfucker" 22:08:50 geez plushieful has nothing to do with -me- 22:09:29 then how do you explain allegations that your bed is filled with plush 22:09:37 checkmate 22:09:46 but like if I had a friend that friend coujld enjoy the plushies too 22:10:34 well plush is a universal enjoyedment 22:12:11 german swordfighting as opposed to 22:13:28 ...all the o fucking serious 22:13:30 er. 22:13:35 all the other kinds of swordfighting? 22:13:57 is there a specifically german kind though 22:14:09 germane swordfighting hth 22:14:16 @wn germane 22:14:17 *** "germane" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 22:14:17 germane 22:14:17 adj 1: relevant and appropriate; "he asks questions that are 22:14:17 germane and central to the issue" 22:14:29 hmm from now on we say "germane" instead of "on-topic" 22:14:31 germane, the methane analogue with germanium 22:14:46 Phantom_Hoover: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing 22:14:50 don't you read gunnerkrigg! 22:15:28 no 22:15:35 i gave up on webcomics 22:15:41 i think university is to blame 22:16:19 you're a shit 22:16:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:17:26 Higgledy Piggledy / Bicycle Bicycle / pushed his clone button and / heard it go Boink. // Now he can not only / neurobiologize / but also transmogrify; / quoth Bike: "oink oink". 22:18:24 bikes don't make that noise >: 22:18:50 they do when you transmogrify them 22:21:30 Ooh, fancy: a 7-plug extension cord, configured such that one hole is a "master", and when you turn off the device connected to that hole, it cuts off four other holes; the idea being that when you turn off your TV, the other related things like externally powered subwoofers and whatnot will also automatically power off. 22:21:53 nice. 22:22:05 I don't know what they'll invent next! 22:23:06 There is no Great Stagnation. 22:23:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:23:26 is Great Stagnation the thing where we close the patent office because everything's been invented 22:23:30 fizzie: at university they gave us a bunch of those because green! but most of us didn't have the right use case for them, so they were just a nuisance 22:24:08 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:24:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Stagnation 22:24:46 i haven't read this 22:25:14 kmc: My wife's mother was trying to give one away, due to lack of the right use case; it's very possible she got it from somewhere because green. 22:25:21 i just know "There is no Great Stagnation" (from his blog) as a cheeky way to praise a consumer tech gizmo of questionable utility 22:25:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugz i like how this exists 22:25:42 drugz are important 22:25:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drukqs 22:25:58 they're one of the ishooz of the youf 22:26:12 that reminds me of http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139464/j-bradford-delong/the-second-great-depression which i read today because literally needing pills just isn't depressing enough 22:26:21 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 22:27:10 "James has stated that the title is not related to drugs, and is 'just a word [he] made up.'" that's what they always say. 22:27:56 yeah right 22:28:00 lucy in the sky with diamonds 22:28:27 what happens if you accidentally make up drugz 22:29:09 you go to prizon 22:33:41 Can you get Verizon in prizon? 22:33:53 only on the horizon 22:34:16 kmc: i think i'm addicted to drugz 22:34:18 the word 22:34:33 welp time for an intervention 22:34:37 Sunrise over the verizon. (The joke is, Sunrise is an operator too.) 22:35:14 intervenzion 22:44:49 over the verizon radar 22:50:21 thanks User:Thylacine222 23:24:45 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:26:17 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:29:29 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:29:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:29:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:31:16 -!- tertu has joined. 23:34:27 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:37:22 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:40:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:24 -!- tertu has joined. 23:42:38 a stitch in time saves nine 23:42:41 Etymology[edit] 23:42:41 From the practice of mending a small tear in cloth before it becomes a larger one. 23:42:44 so that's what that means 23:43:31 i always thought it was related to _A Wrinkle in Time_?????????? 23:44:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:44:54 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:16 -!- tertu has joined. 2013-06-21: 00:01:24 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 00:02:13 -!- angeli has joined. 00:02:43 hola:-D 00:02:59 hi 00:03:12 hi 00:04:16 hablas ingles 00:04:16 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:35 this is mostly an English-speaking channel 00:04:42 yo no 00:04:45 although sometimes it's Finnish or Norwegian instead 00:04:55 no entiendo nada 00:04:58 Or Swedish! 00:05:02 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 00:05:09 `? welcome 00:05:12 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:05:15 oerjan: Hmm, that's Norwegian, right? 00:05:21 no hablas español 00:05:45 por que no entiendo nadita 00:06:11 aaaaaaaaa 00:06:16 I doubt most people here understand what you're saying 00:06:34 hablenmen en castellano 00:08:50 `? bienvenido 00:08:52 bienvenido? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:08:55 grr 00:09:13 `? tervetuloa 00:09:15 tervetuloa: ask shachaf 00:09:18 thx 00:09:31 `ls wisdom 00:09:32 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 00:09:36 `pastewisdom 00:09:38 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 00:09:53 `? welcome.es 00:09:56 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 00:10:05 `run cat $(which ls) 00:10:10 ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^752129 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 00:10:13 still the silliest hack 00:10:21 "liating it"??? 00:10:29 how come it doesn't say liating when you do it 00:10:34 is mosh failing me 00:10:44 `? welcome.fi 00:10:45 -!- sacje has joined. 00:10:45 welcome.fi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:10:46 | 00:10:46 /`\ 00:10:56 `thanks myndzi 00:10:56 good wai 00:10:57 Thanks, myndzi. Thyndzi. 00:11:03 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 00:11:05 `run cat $(which ls) 00:11:07 ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^752129 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 00:11:08 kmc: we actually have a welcome in Spanish? 00:11:14 kmc: hi 00:11:14 hi 00:11:20 `run echo ¡ | iconv -f iso8859-1 | iconv -f iso8859-1 | iconv -f iso8859-1 | iconv -f iso8859-1 | iconv -f iso8859-1 | iconv -f iso8859-1 00:11:21 kmc: is mosh bugged or did HackEgo get a cosmic bit flip 00:11:22 ​¡ 00:11:34 ais523: yeah i added it a while back 00:11:36 I guess that's an actually /useful/ welcome variant, so… 00:11:44 looks like it was "listing" both times according to the logs 00:11:51 i not pikin inglis 00:11:53 also it's showing as "if/bin/ls" here 00:11:57 maybe it isn't mosh's fault 00:12:01 but i don't know who else to blame 00:12:01 espain 00:12:12 adios 00:12:15 adios angeli 00:12:33 ablas español tu 00:12:42 kmc 00:12:53 un poquito 00:13:04 como esta 00:13:25 y por que todos todos hablan ingles 00:13:30 kmc: do you think angeli is trying to contribute usefully to the channel, but failing due to the language barrier? 00:13:41 wow in one (1) week (seven (7) days) kmc will fly to california 00:13:42 or just not doing anything useful? 00:13:50 que dicen 00:14:30 que hlablan 00:15:02 `? the them 00:15:04 Information on the THEM has been removed for national security reasons. 00:15:20 `? usa 00:15:23 See America. 00:15:26 `? america 00:15:28 This wisdom entry had to be removed due to a DMCA takedown notice. 00:15:37 yo soy de venezuela 00:15:51 angeli: porque muchos de nosotros vivimos en estados unidos, y los otros hablan idiomas impopulares, como la finlandesa, y hablan ingles tambien 00:16:07 are you asking whether they're from hexham 00:16:12 no 00:16:19 i disapprove 00:16:21 elliott: come on you can read that 00:16:22 hmm… I can tell kmc's comments are more useful than angeli's even despite them both being in Spanish 00:16:30 you don't need to know any spanish to be able to read that 00:16:39 elliott vive en Hexham, UK 00:16:55 i read the finlandesa part 00:16:57 I think hexham UK is quite unlikely in angeli's case 00:16:58 yo yes hablo spanish 00:17:02 although hexham, spain is always possible 00:17:03 kmc: Are you calling my language impopulares, though! 00:17:12 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 00:17:19 hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico 00:17:30 yo no se porque 00:17:30 * ais523 fails to see how "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" is useful conversation 00:17:36 fizzie: si 00:17:45 ais523: Tell that to oerjan. 00:17:46 que es esoterico 00:18:07 `learn Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico 00:18:08 lenguajes de programación que se hacen para ser extraño más que útil 00:18:11 I knew that. 00:18:30 hacemos extraños lenguajes de programación para la diversión 00:18:43 tu edad kcm 00:19:09 el más conocido es http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck pero no es muy interesante en comparación con algunos otros 00:19:30 angeli: tengo 25 años 00:19:36 kmc: btw google translate suggests you referred to hexham as a "city" 00:19:39 elliott: si 00:19:43 no12 00:19:45 kmc: which is a wonderfully overoptimistic word for it 00:20:00 like calling two huts and a campfire a town 00:20:06 yo 12 00:21:09 chaito 00:21:27 a todos 00:21:27 yo vivo en Boston, Massachusetts pero voy a trasladar a California la próxima semana 00:21:41 yo vivo en venezuela 00:21:48 elliott: Hexham has elliott's hut, Taneb's hut, and the campfire you use together (strictly scheduled in order to avoid accidentally meeting), right? 00:21:55 angeli: ¿te gusta Venezuela? 00:21:56 eso en que pais queda 00:22:12 logico me encanta 00:22:23 que tipo de logico 00:22:31 fizzie: it's OK for elliott to accidentally meet Taneb, so long as they aren't in Northumberland at the time 00:22:40 si me gusta es muy linda 00:22:50 donde queda boston 00:23:52 nordeste de EE.UU. 00:23:54 en que pais 00:23:54 responde 00:23:54 aaaaaaaaaaaa 00:24:18 aa ya 00:24:27 4 horas de nueva york 00:24:28 en estados unidos 00:24:30 si 00:24:35 ummmmm 00:24:48 y como es aya 00:25:05 bueno 00:25:26 okey 00:25:40 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:25:55 y porque todos hablan ingles 00:26:06 porque no 00:26:42 nose 00:27:09 apenas se decir hola en ingles 00:27:48 ingles es dificil 00:27:59 y ticherk 00:28:11 para mi si 00:28:55 y a ti 00:29:12 i wonder if you can do arbitrary computations with only iconv invocations 00:29:34 ya te dije que no se hablar ingles 00:31:23 no sew 00:31:38 kmc: wow, that's actually really close to something I've been doing in the last couple of days 00:31:47 I've been writing a UTF-8/CP437 polyglot 00:31:53 heh 00:32:21 that uses backspaces, VT100 cursor motion commands, and exploiting the fact that things like "C2 A0" are two characters wide in CP437 but only one in UTF8 00:32:24 que dijistes 00:32:34 kmc 00:33:20 chao 00:33:22 chao 00:33:31 adios etc. 00:33:34 ciao 00:33:35 !list 00:34:01 cao 00:34:06 -!- angeli has left. 00:34:22 did kmc make a friend 00:34:24 i didn't know you knew spanish. 00:34:29 un poquito 00:34:36 more than me! 00:34:37 i know enough to catch some of the mistakes google translate makes 00:34:43 that's about it 00:34:47 was that google translate + corrections 00:34:48 the future measure of language comprehension 00:34:48 I know small amounts of lots of languages 00:34:53 due to watching so much foreign-language TC 00:34:55 *TV 00:35:01 i took 4 years of spanish in high school but have forgotten most of it 00:35:07 maybe in the future we will all get google glass to translate our sentences and then correct them 00:35:08 certainly most of the vocabulary 00:35:08 Foreign-language Turing-complete. 00:35:10 "I watch a lot of anime, so, like, I'm pretty fluent in Japanese" 00:35:11 and then speak them 00:35:15 THE BABEL FISH OF THE FUTURE 00:36:35 sugoi bike-chan! 00:36:45 elliott: if you've never tried watching YouTube with speech recognition captions turned on, and automatic translation on the captions 00:36:47 you should 00:36:47 desu kawaii ^__^ 00:37:05 boku wa bike-chan desu. nande, desu ka? 00:37:21 send pocky 00:37:30 watashi wa fiora-chan desu! kawaii desu ne~ 00:37:44 i can say "no, i mean the WEIRD porn" in over six japonic languages 00:37:47 bike I think we are drowning in irony 00:37:53 fiora-sama hth 00:37:55 best channel 00:37:57 like I think dave is going to come and tell us to stop 00:37:57 (are there six japonic languages) 00:38:01 (i don't think there are) 00:38:12 shachaf-senpai 00:38:18 help 00:38:19 shachaf for emperor 00:38:26 Fiora: i thought you meant illflower was dave for a second 00:38:30 `addquote i can say "no, i mean the WEIRD porn" in over six japonic languages 00:38:34 1057) i can say "no, i mean the WEIRD porn" in over six japonic languages 00:38:39 my legacy 00:39:11 I wish shachaf-senpai would notice me 00:39:19 hi Fiora 00:39:53 shachaf-先輩 00:39:58 Japan Man like Santa Claus except one difference: he stop at nothing to kill you. 00:40:37 http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc0rhqezMH1qj5pqvo1_500.png bike has a GED in anime fyi 00:40:43 time to ~upgrade my computer~ 00:41:15 Fiora: help 00:41:27 w-with what >_< 00:41:35 what have you gotten me into 00:41:36 elliott: you mean buy a new one 00:41:38 "It was already broken when we arrived" is one of the (less than dozen) phrases in Russian they (anecdotally) teach to people on the train when the CS student organization has their traditional St. Petersburg trip. 00:41:46 Bike: no i mean the Operation's System 00:41:55 fizzie: haha 00:41:59 is that real 00:42:05 fizzie: hmm, I actually don't know how to say that in Hungarian 00:42:05 wait 00:42:09 thats a stupid queston 00:42:13 i don't even know what i was thinking of 00:42:33 Bike: it already said , you don't have to repeat yourself 00:42:36 (bUr n!!!! !) 00:42:43 shachaf: um. I don't know 00:42:44 D: 00:42:49 elliott: please no random insults for no good reason 00:42:56 this is #esoteric, not league of legends 00:42:56 ais523++ 00:42:59 ais523: it's okay it's for bike 00:43:07 No, it's not OK for Bike. 00:43:18 loool 00:43:49 ais523: it's ok elliott's a damned shit anyway 00:43:54 imo +q elliott 00:44:15 break it up, you two (possibly three) 00:44:17 ∼be nice∼ 00:44:36 yeah elliott, break it up, don't be so damn mean 00:44:40 ok this upgrade will be a welcome respite from how oblivious ais523 is 00:44:59 elliott: I'll happily admit I'm oblivious 00:45:38 shachaf-先輩? 00:45:54 So, Fiora後輩 then. 00:46:14 * kmc turned $165 worth of coins into Amazon credit today 00:46:29 -!- hiato has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:46:42 Fiora: hey i just realized this "gate equivalent" stuff is probably what i'll be doing in class. maybe i can implement SIMON :P 00:47:21 gah moving involves doing so many things 00:47:52 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:48:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:49:24 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:51 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 00:50:57 Bike: yay 00:51:18 that sounds awesome 00:51:27 pikhq: yes I am a kouhai apparently 00:51:49 it would be fun assuming i would have any idea what i was doing 00:52:05 geez you can like teach me stuff right 00:53:40 did you take circuit desin in school? 00:53:45 no ._. 00:53:53 I have a vague idea of like, how to make an adder 00:53:59 I have an electronic engineering degree 00:53:59 yeah so do i 00:54:03 we played a tiny bit with one of those things where you drag around wires and NAND gates at some point 00:54:03 Say, could someone do a DNS lookup on www.google.com? 00:54:05 from. How Stuff Works. 00:54:26 I wanna test something. (my DNS is inexplicably not working) 00:54:26 Fiora: yeah i did that in architecture class. i think this class is rather different from that one, thouh.. 00:54:28 oh! and there was like a thing where I got to lay out a small adder with wires and metal layers and stuff 00:54:28 pikhq: 173.194.66.105 and five other possibilities 00:54:31 with um... "Electric" 00:54:38 all in 173.194.66.0/24 00:54:44 i too enjoy Electric 00:54:57 and it had design rules and stuff 00:54:59 wait do you mean physically or 00:55:07 nononono like digitally 00:55:08 Okay, I can ping that. 00:55:11 oh ok. 00:55:21 but apparentlythe stuff we did got used in a senior project where they did actually fabricate a chip? 00:55:24 it'd be pretty metal if they let us make a toy CMOS or whatever thouh i doubt it 00:55:26 Holy *shit* the packet loss. 00:55:30 pikhq: I normally use nethack4.org to bounce pings off to see if I'm online 00:55:30 basically they were like, pawning work onto frosh 00:55:32 and we were the frosh 00:55:34 rip pikhq 00:55:35 admittedly, that's because I own it 00:55:35 `slist did someone do the slist thing yet I don't know 00:55:37 Fiora: heh 00:55:37 slist did someone do the slist thing yet I don't know: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:56:03 ais523: The thing is, I can't do DNS lookups right now. 00:56:19 either way i think this class will be more excititing than my other ones which are mostly Introduction to Broad Field 00:56:26 And no wonder. 00:56:29 60% packet loss. 00:56:37 and chemistry, which is hope you like punch card memorization, in my experience 00:56:39 I'm running a friggin' TCP stress test. 00:56:52 Bike: chemistry is interesting when you get to the reason behind things 00:56:54 pikhq: intentionally? 00:57:01 ais523: No. 00:57:05 pikhq, can't wait for the packets to get back from OUTER FRICKEN SPACE? 00:57:10 like, understanding why the periodic table is the shape it is 00:57:17 Sgeo: Thank god I'm no longer doing that. 00:57:18 (Note: Fully aware you might not be in that situation anymore) 00:57:29 God that sucked. 00:57:37 Though less so than dialup. 00:57:44 oh, satellite internet 00:57:50 I thought you were exaggerating 00:57:51 I love how the comedian that did that thinks that connecting by bouncing off sattelites in space is awesome, yet that's the worst way to get an Internet connection 00:58:00 ais523: yeah but i did that in high school already soooo not high hopes exactly. 00:58:06 ais523, pikhq used sattelite internet for some amount of time 00:58:11 wow really 00:58:20 i thought pikhq lived in like 00:58:22 civilization? 00:58:29 Bike: I did not at the time. 00:58:34 Bike: he lives in the US 00:58:34 gosh 00:58:38 did you have a pet bear 00:58:39 which has famously bad internet 00:58:42 did a bear have a pet you 00:59:39 And I was a couple miles away from DSL... 00:59:51 -!- tertu has joined. 00:59:56 maybe i'll get to do like electrochemistry or something 01:00:06 new and exciting ways to kill myself violently (that's what chemistry is for, right) 01:00:22 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:00:45 -!- tertu has joined. 01:01:04 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:02:01 Anyways, I'm trying to diagnose an apparently wonky cable connection. 01:02:36 i sympathize :/ 01:02:48 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:03:29 God *dammit* the bastards don't let us change the settings on the modem. :P 01:10:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:20:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:21:30 o well, looks like my system is too fucked to upgrade 01:21:35 guess i should reformat at some point 01:21:58 ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:21:58 | 01:21:59 o/`¯º 01:22:03 hehe 01:22:08 i can't come up with something good for the feet 01:22:23 i really like that it adds to hackego's smiley 01:22:37 but also 01:22:39 stupid mirc 01:22:49 `? does it really work 01:22:50 does it really work? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:22:51 | 01:22:51 º¯`\o 01:22:55 fantastic 01:23:18 /\(([chars])_(?!\2)[chars]\)/ matches (._o) 01:23:18 | 01:23:18 º¯`\o 01:23:21 but not with any unicodes 01:23:25 also i wonder what happened there 01:23:39 /\(([chars])_(?!\2)[chars]\)/ matches \(._o)/ 01:23:39 | 01:23:39 o/`¯º 01:23:47 hrmm back to troubleshooting 01:23:59 shit, it's half 2 already 01:24:32 oh right 01:24:38 counting length of unicode characters derp 01:25:44 anyway i blame all this on nobody buying me a new computer, imo 01:27:46 especially Bike. as previously established, he's terrible. 01:29:25 you can't acquire your own? 01:29:50 by "acquire" she means "steal" 01:29:54 it's the principle of the thing! 01:30:01 if Bike doesn't get me a new computer, how can I know he truly loves me. 01:31:53 get your own computer 01:32:02 i still haven't forgiven you for the vax fiasco 01:32:37 I mostly mean buy <.< but also like 01:32:39 "convince parents to buy" 01:32:58 well, if you think of it Bike is kind of like parents. 01:33:09 and I'm trying to convince Bike to buy me a computer right now! 01:33:46 Like a Raspberri Pi? 01:34:02 Certainly is a computer 01:34:41 sgeo's got a point 01:34:49 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:49 you can have my raspberry pi 01:36:12 that will be my vengeance 01:36:26 bike doesn't have as much money as parents though 01:36:36 how do you know! 01:36:39 do we know that 01:36:42 what are you talking about, neuroscientists make mad bank. 01:36:51 duh 01:36:56 you can fuck with people's brains etc. 01:37:11 as in they literally make everyone who works at the bank mad 01:37:14 with neuroscience 01:37:31 btw when did Bike turn from a biologist into a neuroscientist 01:37:33 yes 01:37:36 is it like pokemon 01:37:41 they're the same thing elliott 01:37:43 yes 01:37:43 both awful 01:38:18 they actually made a Pokémon spinoff where the humans evolved 01:38:22 it is ridiculous, also awesome 01:38:46 i... tell us more, ais 01:39:10 hmm I bet I could convince ais523 that it's morally correct to buy me a computer 01:39:12 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure there's much more to say, really 01:39:12 yes, i want to hear about this. 01:39:18 there's a lot more to say. 01:39:28 there is so much more to say 01:39:41 basically, the plot has warriors forming emotional links with Pokémon; if it gets strong enough and it's the right Pokémon 01:39:51 then it plays this animation with them fading back and forth, as usual 01:39:56 and mostly they end up in new clothes 01:39:58 and with new abilities 01:40:02 shittest 01:40:04 evolution 01:40:05 ever 01:40:17 oh, higher stats, too 01:40:32 that's just the clothes evolving 01:40:41 well clothes have all the real power in an RPG 01:40:48 humans exist only for the purpose of wearing them 01:40:54 yes 01:40:54 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:40:59 you mean pokemon ranger? 01:41:00 well, underwear doesn't 01:41:08 it's integral to the human condition 01:41:21 (nobody bring up those mods 01:41:23 ) 01:41:24 Fiora: Pokémon Conquest 01:41:36 Ranger doesn't have any human evolution, or even any Pokémon evolution 01:41:39 OH, pokemon conquest 01:41:45 wait, that had humans evolve? I don't remmber that 01:42:01 did you know: humans evolve irl too 01:42:02 Fiora: it happens once guaranteed in the main storyline (after the first attempt to battle illusio/terrera) 01:42:06 the others are all optional 01:42:15 Fiora, considering how shit it sounds i'm not surprised 01:42:17 and normally happen when you reach a certain percentage with your perfect link 01:42:24 ahhh 01:42:34 ... shit...? gosh pokemon conquest was great 01:42:35 elliott: it takes, like, forever, though. 01:43:09 it only works for storyline characters, and normally they have generic abilities beforehand, and customized abilities afterwards which are really powerful 01:43:12 btw how did the "bike is a biologist" thing even start because i'm pretty sure i never described myself that way 01:43:32 e.g. oichi goes from "sweet song" (restore 50 hp to each unit), to "soft light" (restore 100 hp + status to each unit) 01:43:48 sweet song is broken enough as it is (although many units get it), so the upgrade is quite mindboggling 01:43:51 Fiora, i mean the evolution part 01:43:52 Bike: i think you did 01:44:00 sometimes the evolved ability has nothing to do with the original ability though 01:44:00 `pastelogs bike.*biolog 01:44:10 i'd expect to get an extra arm or elbow-caps or something with a name like that 01:44:11 err, skill, not ability, using the correct word is important! for some reason I don't really understand 01:44:24 it's more just like a class upgrade type thing 01:44:29 I think 01:44:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12411 01:44:35 who knows, it's Pokémon 01:44:38 ais523: ok so, tell me how i could convince you that buying me a new computer is morally required 01:44:46 it frequently misuses the word "evolution" really badly 01:44:51 elliott: that might be immoral, though 01:44:52 pokemon conquest is kind of more like a pokemon-themed nobunaga's-ambition-type thing though 01:45:06 elliott, i could rough him up with a pipe or something next time i'm in the midlands? 01:45:09 Fiora: it literally is nobunaga's ambition with a Pokémon theme and mechanics 01:45:18 2013-04-04.txt:00:31:52: Bike is a biologist??????????????????????????????????? 01:45:21 2013-04-04.txt:00:32:02: a wannabe biologist 01:45:24 thanks shachaf 01:45:26 it's called "Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition" (appropriately translated) in Japan 01:45:27 wasn't it called pokemon x nobunaga's ambition in japan? 01:45:31 oh. + 01:45:33 elliott: not the same, imo. 01:45:35 ais523: surely not divulging information about your morals isn't very lawful good 01:45:40 what do you have to hide 01:45:48 elliott: but the information might be used for evil 01:45:53 elliott: heyyyyy i mentioned aczel there 01:46:14 ais523: no, I'll only use it to convince you to buy me a new computer for moral reasons 01:46:14 elliott, but ais is lawful weird, not lawful good 01:46:20 therefore it will only result in you taking moral actions 01:46:27 wow i talk about biology a lot rad 01:46:32 as you can see, I'm being very transparent about the whole thing 01:46:53 in the non-Japan version, it's not advertised as being in the Nobunaga's Ambition series because nobody had heard of it 01:46:57 but they do have loads of references 01:47:08 like stealing /all/ the non-Pokémon characters (except Hero/Heroine) from it 01:47:19 `? conspirabiology 01:47:20 and giving Nobunaga a (post-evolution) skill called Ambition 01:47:21 conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. 01:47:28 `? brainf**k 01:47:29 There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck. 01:47:36 `? burma 01:47:37 ask Bike 01:47:42 cool 01:48:15 elliott: this log clearly shows you saying i'm "like, a biologist" before i say i'm anything. 01:48:21 so, fuck you. 01:48:37 is Bike actually a biologist? 01:48:46 also IIRC fucking elliott is illegal 01:48:55 or used to be, at least 01:48:56 um no 01:48:57 isn't the age of consent 16 in northumberland 01:49:05 elliott is eminently fuckable by eminent domain 01:49:07 i've been fuckable for like almost a year! 01:49:15 albeit in only one sense of the word 01:49:21 also what i actually am is, an undergrad. 01:49:25 worse than slime imo 01:49:32 this conversation took a weird turn 01:49:35 bike/elliott? 01:49:38 also, isn't "eminent domain" the US name for what's called "compulsory purchase" in the UK? 01:49:44 yes 01:49:46 whoops, I forgot that Fiora was a shipper 01:49:50 c.c 01:49:54 she'll make you remember 01:49:55 is is that bad 01:49:55 !!!!! 01:50:01 Fiora: no, I just envy you for it 01:50:07 envy...? 01:50:19 `quote 450 01:50:20 450) oerjan: I'm not imaginative enough to write truly great slash fiction 01:50:42 oh. I'm not either 01:50:58 oh right :( 01:51:18 Fiora: i think you disappointed ais523 01:51:36 but you know how you could make up for it? write elliott/kmc that makes the stars cry in joy 01:51:37 I can write fic but I'm probably really out of practice 01:51:48 and the problem with slash is it's porn and I absolutely can't write porn 01:51:53 I wrote some NetHack fanfiction once 01:52:04 it might be difficult because elliott and i have never seen each other and Fiora has never seen either of us? 01:52:23 kmc: but you and elliott both actually exist 01:52:37 kmc: love knows no barriers 01:52:38 that's got to be some sort of advantage, most fanfiction is about characters who don't exist 01:52:56 Fiora: /tasteful/ slash 01:52:59 it's "erotic" not "porn" 01:53:00 gosh. 01:53:05 gosh 01:53:06 if all else fails, you can use the standard plots involving wormholes that are capable of connecting multiple continuities 01:53:20 worm-gloryhole 01:53:22 Bike: okay, I can't write erotic fiction 01:53:45 (the US and Hexham are different continuities, right?) 01:55:22 Bike: you're welcome (for what??) 01:55:24 ais523: yeah, that's why this channel is full of plot holes 01:55:46 now I want to write a continuity-based esolang 01:56:02 like, it takes the form of a story, and has some sort of algorithmic method for automatically resolving continuity errors 01:56:19 in order to form a loop, you'd have to write it such that resolving a contradiction in one part of it caused a contradiction in another 01:57:24 why do i know so many people in california 01:57:37 because california is great 01:57:43 maybe i should go and visit (for reasons other than enabling elliott/kmc slash) 01:57:45 and I don't think Canada is canon 01:57:47 elliott: because california is huge 01:58:04 is is the most populous state in the US 01:58:07 i think i view california as like the size of ireland 01:58:13 but really long and thin 01:58:18 instead of ireland's more balanced shape 01:58:27 please don't tell me how much bigger california is than ireland 01:58:44 hmm… including california in the story would be cheating 01:58:46 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=area+of+california+%2F+area+of+united+kingdom 01:58:47 > 423970 / 84421 01:58:48 5.022091659658142 01:58:49 because it's internally inconsistent 01:58:56 (that's not ireland, i know) 01:59:07 yo remember when i said please don't tell me how much bigger california is than ireland 01:59:10 > 423970 / 229848 01:59:11 1.8445668441752812 01:59:15 and shachaf says i'm mean!! 01:59:30 elliott: I remember when Stephen Wolfram was demonstrating Wolfram Alpha in a seminar 01:59:36 and asked it for the tides in Norwich 01:59:58 i'm... waiting for the punchline 01:59:59 If California were a country, as of 2012 it would have the 9th largest economy in the world 02:00:06 didn't it use to be 7th 02:00:17 "woow california u'r slipping" 02:00:26 elliott: well he didn't even notice that it picked an arbitrary nearby-ish coastal town to report on 02:00:29 because Norwich is landlocked 02:00:33 haha 02:00:41 ps i know nothing about UK geology 02:01:01 I know rather too much about the geography of East Anglia 02:01:12 it's the county I spend the most time in, other than the West Midlands 02:01:17 east anglia sounds like a body part 02:01:22 and not even for the same reason each time 02:01:22 like maybe it's in your throat 02:01:27 your east anglia 02:01:36 i don't think too many body parts have cardinal directions in their names 02:01:51 I think east anglia is mostly famous for being flat 02:01:56 kmc: well that's what's interesting about the east anglia 02:01:57 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:02:01 it's essentially your body's compass 02:02:06 because it maintains itself to always point east 02:02:06 like, you can stand on top of a 2m high wall 02:02:19 kmc: this is why, if your lose your throat, you're not very good at directions any more 02:02:26 and be on the highest point for miles around, with your view limited only by the curvature of the Earth (rather than the more common being limited by high ground) 02:02:27 makes sense 02:02:42 they have watercourses cut which are just a couple of metres lower than the land 02:03:02 it has some of the most repetitive areas to drive through in the UK :) 02:03:08 shachaf: hey have you seen the new super mega todaY? "Chin" 02:03:22 (not that I can drive) 02:03:35 oh, it also has the A11, which is great 02:03:35 mnoqy: nope 02:03:38 `smlist 02:03:39 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 02:03:51 mnoqy: thanks 02:03:55 mostly because it's used to test out new cats eyes replacements, for allowing drivers to see road markings in the dark 02:04:05 there's a stretch that has like 8 or 9 different new experimental ones 02:04:14 so it's quite fun to drive at night 02:04:42 apparently mirc understands utf-8 but pcre doesn't 02:04:46 that's annoying 02:04:51 seems to be on the right track now though 02:05:09 finally, its coast is superior to weston-super-mare 02:05:11 \o/ \o/ \m/ \m/ _o/\o_ ಠ_ಠ 02:05:11 | | `\o/´ | | ¯|¯⌠ 02:05:11 |\ /| | /< /| /`\| 02:05:11 /'¯|_) 02:05:11 (_| 02:05:23 glorious 02:05:36 `? myndzi 02:05:38 myndzi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:05:38 | 02:05:39 o/`¯º 02:05:39 forgot one 02:05:46 \o/ \o/ \m/ \m/ _o/\o_ ಠ_ಠ ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:05:46 | | `\o/´ | | ¯|¯⌠ | | 02:05:46 /'\ /'\ | >\/< |\|/| º¯`\o 02:05:47 /'\ 02:05:47 (_| |_) 02:05:49 beautiful 02:05:51 the cause of all this trouble :P 02:05:57 hehe 02:06:05 this is the script that lead to myndzi not being signed up to Agora, right? 02:06:07 it should complete c.c to a 7-eyed multiocular one 02:06:08 good news: got to clean the script up a little 02:06:17 ais523: ? 02:06:29 myndzi: do you not remember that? 02:06:29 ais523, why the fuck would you spend time in east anglia 02:06:37 kmc: i can't exactly edit the contents of YOUR message :P 02:06:38 Phantom_Hoover: it's a different reason each time, often 02:06:41 isn't it just there to be the butt of the geographic joke in alan partridge 02:06:45 myndzi: no I mean 02:06:46 c.c 02:06:47 c.c.c 02:06:48 c.c 02:06:49 frequently it's because it's on the way to cambridge 02:06:59 ais523: no, i don't think i've ever been likely to participate in nomic 02:07:06 oh that's why I've been to East Anglia 02:07:09 but i have no idea why the script would prevent me (?) 02:07:12 ais523, how... wh 02:07:13 (the trains to cambridge from Birmingham go via East Anglia, for some reason, even though it isn't actually on the way) 02:07:19 wait hm 02:07:23 what 02:07:24 no I was going from London, doesn't make sense 02:07:25 Phantom_Hoover: that's a good question 02:08:22 there's no obvious reason to build a railway line such that it overshoots its destination and then backtracks 02:08:57 wait is Cambridge in east anglia 02:09:06 not quite, it's close though 02:09:06 wikipedia thinks so 02:09:17 it is, unsurprisingly, in cambridgeshire 02:09:22 myndzi: i second kmc's feature request 02:09:31 "The University of Cambridge, established at the start of the 13th century and situated in the town of the same name, is East Anglia's best-known institution of higher learning, and is among the oldest and most famous universities in the world" 02:10:06 hmm, apparently cambridgeshire is officially part of east anglia 02:10:23 along with norfolk, suffolk, and essex, whichis what I thought was the official definition 02:10:24 lol 02:10:27 okay 02:10:33 (this is the Wikipedia definition of "apparently", not the Reddit definition) 02:12:05 I remember in Couplings the girl saying "apparently" meant she was upset 02:12:10 hth 02:12:16 hi 02:12:23 hi mnoqy 02:12:34 what's the reddit defn 02:12:35 Koen_: here, "apparently" normally means "I've read this on Reddit recently" 02:12:38 hi mnoqy 02:12:45 haha 02:12:48 people read reddit? 02:12:53 although it can also be used for "this is claimed to be true by Wikipedia" 02:12:59 mnoqy: I read some of the subreddits, some of the time 02:13:14 I didn't know either of those definitions 02:13:16 > drop 8 "San Francisco" 02:13:18 "cisco" 02:13:27 Koen_: well they aren't really standard English 02:13:30 > splitAt 8 "San Francisco" 02:13:31 ("San Fran","cisco") 02:13:35 reader's digets used to call that city Frisco 02:13:59 ais523: I ain't really English neither so that's fine by me 02:14:07 oh and guys 02:14:16 I'VE GOT AN APPARTMENT WITH VIEW ON THE EIFFEL TOWER 02:14:24 "view of" 02:14:28 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:14:29 well, "a view o" 02:14:36 do you want me to say that again 02:14:36 *"a veiw of" 02:14:45 (I actually caught the las typo but let it in because muphry's law) 02:14:47 I'VE GOT AN APPARTMENT WITH A VIEW OF THE EIFFEL TOWER 02:14:55 /A view from the left/ 02:15:00 also my f key is not working properly 02:15:10 are apartments hard to obtain in Paris? 02:15:15 yes 02:15:23 this is where I say something about how the Eiffel Tower is ugly and overrated 02:15:28 in order to sound cool 02:15:32 well I don't own it I'm gonna be renting it 02:15:54 well rent half of it anyway, i'll have a room mate 02:15:57 kmc: I have no idea whether the Eiffel Tower is underrated or overrated 02:16:11 although I'd say that this conversation is reasonably good evidence that it exists 02:16:14 like, not perfect 02:16:17 kmc: it's the eiffel tower. what more do you need? 02:16:18 i've got an apartment in san francisco with a view of some hills 02:16:23 but I think Koen_ is reasonably trustworthy in terms of existence of landmarks 02:16:36 kmc: are they anthills 02:16:43 not sure 02:16:45 v. big ants maybe 02:16:57 I live close enough to the edge of Birmingham that it's reasonable to just walk out of it, into countryside 02:17:05 ais523: I've got a vague memory of visiting it when I was a kid 02:17:12 we used to drive past fields with cows and sheep in on the way to school 02:17:18 well mostly I've got a memory of queueing to visit it 02:17:58 how expensive is san francisco (i know literally nothing about the world) 02:18:04 v. 02:18:14 elliott: more so than hexham 02:18:19 how expensive is v. expensive? 02:18:24 http://sfist.com/attachments/SFist_Brock/SF-Infographic.png 02:18:37 how expensive is hexham 02:18:42 heh c.c 02:18:43 actually I have come to the conclusion that Subway (the sandwich chain) is one of the better ways to compare the relative expense of places 02:18:44 wut 02:18:45 what 02:18:52 because it's really common, and less prone to cultural differences than McDonalds is 02:18:59 these are not US dollars right kmc right 02:19:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:19:04 these are US dollars 02:19:06 per month 02:19:08 also, Subway prices vary noticeably even within one city in the UK, unlike McDonalds 02:19:17 kmc: oh 02:19:20 that is a lot of money 02:19:30 Yeah, the price of a Subway sandwich is probably a better barometer. 02:19:41 Due to varying rather a bit more based on supply chain. 02:19:47 to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, which is the most expensive way for one person to live, compared to sharing a bigger apt 02:19:54 also which one of these is silicon valley 02:19:57 none 02:20:00 thanks 02:20:03 pikhq: I've seen a difference of £2.30 just within the uK 02:20:05 *UK 02:20:07 this is SF proper which is only 7 miles on a side 02:20:13 Silicon Valley is like 30 miles south of there 02:20:21 o c.c 02:20:22 c.c.c 02:20:22 c.c 02:20:31 kmc: you guys have like the biggest fucking country ever and you pack everything into no space whatsoever 02:20:32 \o/ c.c \o/ 02:20:32 | c.c.c | 02:20:32 >\ c.c >\ 02:20:36 how dumb are you 02:20:38 lols 02:20:40 elliott: yes because it's useful to live near other people 02:20:42 that one makes no sense 02:20:47 i think by useful you mean horrible 02:20:48 cities are expensive because people want to live there 02:20:50 but i f igured it'd be easy to add ;) 02:20:57 elliott: even despite the packing, it's apparently impossible to live without driving in the US, in most cases 02:21:04 Also, we're not as crammed as you think. 02:21:10 SF has a serious housing shortage though 02:21:15 whereas in the UK, it's possible to get from Birmingham to Hexham entirely along cycle paths 02:21:16 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:21:16 thanks to inept planning, zoning, NIMBYs, etc 02:21:21 (not that you'd want to, but the possibility exists) 02:21:26 i'm told that in the UK, NIMBYs are known as CAVE people 02:21:28 I'd want to 02:21:32 Citizens Against Virtually Everything 02:21:38 kmc: NIMBY is pretty common in the UK too 02:21:46 good 02:21:49 I guess it's more specific 02:21:59 should i move to sf 02:22:05 if you can afford it, yes 02:22:06 That's only, uh, 200 miles. 02:22:17 200 miles 02:22:18 maybe i'll get a job first 02:22:25 -!- tertu has joined. 02:22:25 elliott: of course pay scales up to match rents, somewhat 02:22:28 that's almost three days if you're riding a bike 02:22:28 at least if you're a software engineer 02:22:30 don't move unless you have a reason to move 02:22:50 hmm, I think zzo38 would explain it better than me 02:22:52 albeit less directly 02:22:59 eventually SF will have only software engineers and homeless schizophrenic people who sleep at the BART station 02:23:07 ais523: i live in a small windowless room in a city that used to have the most murders per capita in the country 02:23:11 at least this is one of the dystopian scenarios that people are worrying a lot about 02:23:17 shachaf: isn't that illegal? 02:23:23 is it? 02:23:28 one of the UK housing regulations is that all rooms used for sleeping must have a window 02:23:33 hmm 02:23:37 and it seems like a sensible rule for elsewhere too 02:23:39 well, maybe it is 02:23:41 that's common in the US too 02:23:52 this means that large dormitories tend to have shapes designed to maximise surface area 02:23:57 my friend lived in a windowless room in NYC and there was a sticker on the door like "DON'T LIST THIS ROOM ON CRAIGSLIST WITHOUT ASKING US FIRST" 02:24:07 Koen_: That's just a bit over the distance from Colorado Springs to the CO-KS boarder. 02:24:10 Erm, border. 02:24:18 oh so france isn't the only country that has rules about the size and shape of a bed? 02:24:28 ais523: https://www.google.com/search?q=simmons+hall&tbm=isch 02:24:34 kmc: hmm, so the rule exists in the US, just people break it and think they'd be unlikely to be caught? 02:24:42 some places they do 02:24:42 pikhq: you're not cool now I have to google CO-KS 02:24:49 Koen_: Colorado-Kansas. 02:24:55 housing in NYC is insane enough that people will put up with a lot of sketchy 02:25:12 the windowless part is p. bad..............i should move 02:25:17 in that case, I guess the difference in the UK is that people think they'd be more likely to be caught 02:25:23 maybe they do it in London? 02:25:24 actually, they probably would, mostly because of council tax 02:25:35 when there's a tax tied to what sort of accommodation you live in 02:25:40 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:25:49 government authorities become better at figuring out whether accommodation is legal 02:26:00 ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index#Manipulation 02:26:07 pikhq: hmmmm okay 02:26:18 "Guillermo Moreno, Secretary of Commerce in the Kirchner government, reportedly forced McDonald's to sell the Big Mac at an artificially low price to manipulate the country's performance on the Big Mac index" 02:26:27 yup that looks like 2~3 days 02:26:40 kmc: somehow I'm not surprised 02:26:44 also I'm not sure I could bike 200 miles in 3 days 02:26:47 but i'm kind of a wimp 02:27:01 i like how "bike" just looks like a name to me now 02:27:14 well I did 200 in 4 days and didn't feel dead, so probably I could 02:27:18 I biked 250 km in two days a couple years ago 02:27:33 if you can convert that to your weird units 02:27:36 i can't ride a bicycle "help" 02:27:44 155 mi 02:27:47 `which units 02:27:49 ​/hackenv/bin/units 02:28:22 `units 250km mi 02:28:24 kmc: it has frink! 02:28:24 ​Definition: 4.02336e+08 m^2 02:28:27 ohhhhh right for some reason I was assuming miles/km was the same as dollar/euro 02:28:27 you should use it instead of units 02:28:29 i don't know frink 02:28:35 `frink 250 km -> miles 02:28:37 `addquote ohhhhh right for some reason I was assuming miles/km was the same as dollar/euro 02:28:51 1953125/12573 (approx. 155.3427980593335) 02:28:51 … 02:28:53 1058) ohhhhh right for some reason I was assuming miles/km was the same as dollar/euro 02:29:17 I like how 250km mi was interpreted as a surface 02:29:30 ohhhhh right for some reason I was assuming miles/km was the same as dollar/euro ← it's pretty close to pound/dollar, sometimes 02:29:46 frink is very cool 02:30:14 `frink 250 km*mi -> square inches 02:30:20 79200000000000/127 (approx. 6.236220472440945e11) 02:30:30 Koen_: The mile's not a weird unit! Why, it's quite simply 1760 yards! 02:30:37 `frink 100 kB 02:30:37 A yard of course being 3 feet. 02:30:45 Warning: undefined symbol "kB". \ 100 kB (undefined symbol) 02:30:47 kmc: once upon a time USD/INS was ~ gallon/litre 02:30:52 how long is your feet 02:30:54 I wanted it to interpret it as kilobels 02:30:59 And an international yard being 0.9144m. 02:31:07 how loog is your foot* and don't make me ask how long your inch is 02:31:15 kmc: so you could compare some prices pretty directly 02:31:25 is inch a synonym for thumb? 02:31:28 `frink ??moon 02:31:35 ​[moonmass = 7.3483e+22 kg (mass), \ moondist = 3.84400000e+8 m (length), \ moonlum = 2500 m^-2 cd (illuminance), \ moongravity = 1.62 m s^-2 (acceleration), \ moonradius = 1738000 m (length)] 02:31:38 Koen_: in the UK, 1 foot = 12 inches = 12 * 2.54 millimetres 02:31:44 And a survey yard being 3937/3600 m. 02:31:55 `frink 100*1000*10 decibels 02:31:57 ais523: US and UK "foot" are identical. 02:32:00 UK and US have the same inch/foot 02:32:02 Warning: undefined symbol "decibels". \ 1000000 decibels (undefined symbol) 02:32:05 `frink 100*1000*10 decibel 02:32:08 but not the same fluid ounce :/ 02:32:13 Warning: undefined symbol "decibel". \ 1000000 decibel (undefined symbol) 02:32:14 :( 02:32:18 you can define units 02:32:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MetricImperialUSCustomaryUnits.jpg 02:32:27 yeah but bels work on a log scale 02:32:37 e.g. http://futureboy.us/frinkdata/units.txt 02:32:39 which is why the idea of a kilobel or megabel is so earthshattering 02:32:41 ais523: Koen_: in the UK, 1 foot = 12 inches = 12 * 2.54 millimetres 02:32:44 -!- madbr has joined. 02:32:45 Though the US also has survey feet. 02:32:52 somebody told me that the strength of british beer is scaled to the fact that a UK pint, a US pint, and a continental whatever are different sizes 02:33:17 that's like 3 centimetres ais523 02:33:26 err, 2.54 centimetres 02:33:29 25.4 millimetres 02:33:47 1 survey foot = 12 survey inches = 12 * 100/3937m. 02:34:10 grand. 02:34:23 alternatively you could make one of the continuity-piercing wormholes 10 times bigger? 02:34:37 ais523: 30 centimetres? SERIOUSLY 02:34:44 I thought I had big feet 02:34:44 Koen_: yeah, about 30 centimetres 02:34:54 I'm not sure whose feet they are 02:34:58 Used for surveying purposes because the US length units were defined accordingly before settling on a single length unit set with the UK. 02:35:03 stores here don't even make shoes for 30-centimetres feet 02:35:41 My feet are larger than a foot? 02:35:42 pikhq: huh, I assumed the US used the same units as the UK because they were the same pre-independence 02:35:44 maybe not? 02:36:10 ais523: The US established its own definitions of them, which were mostly similar but not identical. 02:36:13 ais523: yeah, france booted you out of america for a reason :-) 02:36:32 Koen_: well I wasn't in America at the time 02:36:45 Hence why the pre-international US and UK feet were merely *almost* identical. 02:37:17 you guys have international feet? didn't anyone give you a head's up about the metric system? 02:37:29 how much beer do you get when you ask for a pint on the continent 02:37:29 koen can you say that with a straight face 02:37:32 500 mL? 02:37:37 kmc: yes 02:37:39 I remember reading the history of the foot on wikipedia a bit back 02:37:41 International, international nautical, *and* US survey. 02:37:43 30cm is huge though 02:37:46 it's like. wow that's a big foot 02:38:22 well it's not like the inch is actually the same length as anyone's actual inches 02:38:24 hm yeah 02:38:30 my foot is about 28 cm long 02:38:39 my foot is about 1 elliott foot long 02:38:52 that's a big foot 02:39:01 elliott: are they all the same length 02:39:01 yeah 02:39:05 i wear men's US size 13 wide 02:39:24 actually my feet are slightly different in size 02:39:34 I think mine are about ~22.5cm? I'm not sure they differ in size though 02:39:36 Funny, that's my shoe size as well. 02:39:37 mine too 02:39:50 Maybe I'm misremembering and my feet are merely nearly a foot in length. 02:39:53 *shrug* 02:39:54 I wear a size 5.5 or 6 usually since it depends on brand 02:39:59 elliott: yeah I was doing speleology with that guy Mathieu once, and he was measuring every height we had to climb down in "decamathieus" 02:40:03 my right foot is also like at least half a size bigger for some weird reason 02:40:14 Fiora: that's quite common 02:40:25 i am perfectly symmetrical 02:40:45 I am perfectly 02:40:57 shachaf: is that so 02:41:02 it's just like annoying when I am like "okay a 5.5 would fit my left perfectly but now my right foot won't fit and aksdjfls" 02:41:09 kmc: no 02:41:16 kmc: i don't think so anyway 02:41:17 kmc: is it? 02:41:45 so kmc has like 9 sizes larger than me 02:41:57 Fiora: i hugged kmc when he was visiting in san francisco and it was great 02:42:00 imo you should try it 02:42:22 I was with that woman and she saw a butterfly and she said it was wonderful how butterflies were perfectly symmetrical and I told her she was symmetrical too and then she started talking about her breasts 02:42:32 what 02:42:47 thats a great pickup line 02:43:10 kmchugs 02:43:29 km chugs 02:43:39 mnoqy: what, talking about butterflies? 02:44:04 if that's what you're into 02:45:20 "I like the way you butterfly, girl." 02:45:55 hmm, would elliott be horrified to discover that I've actually started conversations with girls? 02:46:02 it feels vaguely similar to pickup lines 02:46:09 why 02:46:12 wh..at 02:46:13 except that you aren't trying to build up to ask them out on a date 02:46:17 just talk to them 02:46:21 ... 02:46:24 -!- elliott has left. 02:46:28 I started a conversation with a female of the species once 02:46:31 I think I broke him 02:46:33 or at least, I think I did 02:46:34 shouldn't it feel similar to actually just talking to people 02:46:37 alise is a girl's name right? 02:46:52 shachaf: starting a conversation is different from talking to people 02:46:54 * Fiora feels vaguely out of place in this conversation 02:47:11 and starting a conversation with someone of the opposite gender has social awkwardness built in 02:47:27 wow what happened to this channel 02:47:35 Fiora: does this make you awkward? :V 02:47:37 ais523: ? 02:47:44 that was funny :( 02:47:45 well, if you're aware they're of the opposite gender 02:47:47 nobody laughed 02:47:47 feel* 02:48:09 continuing a conversation is pretty easy, though 02:48:14 coppro: i cried & i think thats close enough 02:48:33 mnoqy: are you even old enough to get the reference? 02:48:39 I wouldn't know I usually don't talk to girls I just stalk them at night 02:48:41 yeah i know who alise is 02:48:42 it's pretty effective 02:48:43 -!- elliott has joined. 02:48:48 has everyone stopped being terrible yet 02:48:49 Koen_................ 02:48:49 Koen_: ? 02:48:50 no 02:48:52 elliott: they really haven't 02:48:53 theyre all still terrible 02:48:54 aight 02:48:55 elliott: no it's gotten worse 02:48:57 -!- elliott has left. 02:49:05 -!- Fiora has left ("I think I'm going to join elliott in some better place"). 02:49:07 also I agree with mnoqy and fizzie 02:49:09 *Fiora 02:49:20 hey, no fair parting and screwing up my tab complete 02:49:21 mnoqy: ok then 02:49:28 I'm gonna go to bed bye 02:49:31 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:49:32 bi 02:50:21 o no 02:51:19 wait, kmc still has voice? 02:51:24 I thought that was a one-time joke or something 02:51:24 hell yes i do 02:51:31 it's a one-time joke and that time is now 02:54:44 bleh, I was going to voice Gregor 02:54:46 but he's already voiced 02:55:39 TRAGEDY 02:55:47 -!- madbr has left. 02:57:03 kmc: hahahahahahahahahah i get it 02:57:05 it's funny 02:57:51 OK, coppro's reaction is funny 02:59:44 http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/32780540.jpg 02:59:58 wait, people are posting image macros on IRC, now? 03:00:38 sad that Fiora left 03:00:46 again 03:00:56 -!- augur has joined. 03:01:06 Yes. 03:01:37 kmc: I keep forgetting that I can't generally trust even people in #esoteric to behave themselves 03:01:42 ais523: I just googled for it 03:01:45 I dunno if that counts 03:01:47 if it does, then yes 03:02:04 how does the method via which you found it have any influence on what it is? 03:02:26 I don't know the technical definition of image macro 03:02:46 nor do I 03:02:59 it's probably defined on urban dictionary, though 03:03:01 * ais523 checks 03:03:19 who needs a defn. it's easy to see it's awful and why would anyone post it jeez 03:03:28 yep 03:03:39 mnoqy: this is actually entirely based on the URL 03:03:57 URLreading is a skill that can be quite finely developed if you're the sort of person who seldom clicks on links 03:04:09 also who's alise 03:04:16 old nick for elliott 03:04:34 which was a worthwhile experiment in Internet attitudes IMO 03:04:55 -!- elliott has joined. 03:04:58 is it over yet 03:05:27 depends on what you mean by "it" 03:05:32 the conversation is still bad, except on a different topic 03:05:40 like, it's moronic rather than creepy 03:05:44 it's about alise now 03:05:57 well, not the alise stuff, the image macro stuff 03:06:34 this sounds like not "over" 03:07:09 hey, who do you think is a better cleanup wall in VGC, Ferrothorn or Reuniclus? 03:09:05 which one is VGC again? 03:09:29 4 from 6, level 50, doubles 03:09:38 ah. in that case no idea 03:09:45 but I'll vote reuniclus because he looks funnier 03:14:32 elliott: what did you learn by being alise 03:19:29 well anyway 03:20:18 referring to a woman as 'a female' is a standard speech pattern among creepers 03:20:25 which doesn't mean you're a creeper just for saying that, but it might be best avoided 03:21:11 It is? Huh. 03:21:43 i mean it is very common even among people who are not creepers 03:21:48 but it does have that association, at least for me 03:21:50 Hrm. 03:22:03 pick up artists &c. 03:22:11 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to SmoothPUA. 03:22:16 c.c 03:22:20 kmc: hey babe 03:22:23 what's up? 03:22:27 a/s/l/? 03:22:34 SmoothPUA: not funny 03:22:35 seriously 03:22:37 -!- SmoothPUA has changed nick to copumpkin. 03:22:39 SmoothPUA: i don't want to have sex with you because you failed to subtly insult me 03:22:43 damn 03:22:48 rookie mistake 03:22:50 It more has an association of someone without any actual connection with women. Like, view them purely in the abstract. 03:22:59 ... I guess that would be "creeper", yes. 03:23:00 was there a joke there 03:23:02 ais523: sorry! 03:23:19 mnoqy: it was a really bad one that it's not worth trying to understand 03:23:22 or, rather, Poe's Law 03:23:40 pretty sure Poe's Law isn't relevant here 03:23:42 kmc: i find "a female" (noun) much worse than "female" (adjective), is it only me? 03:23:51 err, probably, I keep getting them mudled up 03:23:52 not having too much trouble distinguishing whether copumpkin is being serious 03:23:55 shachaf: it's same for me 03:23:56 shachaf: reminds me of "an illegal" 03:24:01 which is a usage I hate 03:24:21 sometimes i say "female people" when e.g. i want to be age-neutral 03:24:27 (or "male people") 03:24:31 [[why the heck are we even talking about this gone damn]] 03:24:39 dayum 03:24:48 sheeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit 03:24:57 clay, is that you? 03:24:58 when a conversation goes downhill and peters out because of it 03:25:11 the correct response is not to notice it in scrollback, then retroactively attempt to add to it 03:25:31 i think some amount of metadiscussion about what's ok and isn't ok is reasonable 03:25:49 shachaf: sure, that's fine, but it has to be discussion about what's acceptable in the channel, not in general 03:26:56 i saw this as friendly advice on how to avoid being unintentionally creepy 03:26:58 *shrug* 03:27:01 we can talk about something else 03:27:15 can we talk about hugs 03:27:20 i like hugs 03:27:30 haskell user's golfing system 03:27:35 wait, gofer (?) 03:27:54 let's have ais523 tell us what is bad and unacceptable, because I just tuned in a little while ago and am sorry for doing that, but I'm not entirely sure what was wrong with it so it would help me to understand (I'm not even doing this rhetorically) 03:28:41 copumpkin: basically because it's clear that different people have substantially different ideas of where the line is 03:29:04 the line for creepy PUA-like behavior you mean? 03:29:08 03:29:15 the line for gender/sexism discussion 03:29:16 03:29:54 so it's impossible to hold a discussion without either some people thinking it's going round in circles, or other people thinking it's unacceptable 03:30:20 as such, the conversation is almost guaranteed to go downhill when spread across the channel as a whole 03:30:24 even if I only just realised that in the past hour or so 03:30:29 hmm, fair enough 03:30:38 (even though it would probably work between any two individual members) 03:31:14 I enjoy mocking the PUA mentality in various ways, but I'll refrain from pretending to engage in it henceforth 03:31:18 maybe it's relevant that copumpkin and i are both guys and we've met in person 03:31:37 kmc: I don't think so, perhaps it is? 03:31:40 I can't see why it would be 03:31:47 there wasn't much risk of me misinterpreting his joke 03:32:02 yeah but it's not in PM 03:32:08 right 03:32:12 so there are 61 other people who might potentially misinterpret it 03:32:25 yeah, I buy that 03:32:41 shrug, it's one thing to say people shouldn't make jokes making fun of PUA or whatever, it's another thing to say that all discussion of sexism is banned because it causes the channel to go "downhill" 03:32:52 it sounds like you're arguing the latter and i'm not ok with that 03:32:55 i think it is pretty weird that ais523 is calling out copumpkin but not whath appened earlier 03:33:13 it is 03:33:19 yep 03:33:29 hey, getting called out is good, I've been thoroughly indoctrinated by my job 03:33:29 elliott: I'm not really trying to pick on people, I'm trying to shut down the subject 03:33:42 which involves notifying people that I'm trying to get rid of it 03:33:42 well it obviously isn't working 03:33:47 copumpkin: dare I ask what your jerb is? 03:33:55 this is easier when someone's trying to start/restart a conversation, than when the conversation's in full swing 03:34:00 Gracenotes: I'm a professional criticizee/criticizer 03:34:09 /msg ChanServ CLEAR #esoteric USERS 03:34:13 that's why they pay you the big bucks 03:34:15 "shuts down a subject" 03:34:16 hth 03:34:27 Gracenotes: something like that :P 03:34:37 nah, I write software 03:34:48 nooodl: well clearly you can do something really obnoxious so that the conversation switches to what an awful op you are, rather than about what the conversation was about before 03:35:03 but that only works limited times, and is sort-of hostile to your continuing presence in the channel 03:35:21 hey guys I made a kitten cry the other day by stealing its saucer of milk 03:35:32 kittens can cry? 03:35:32 copumpkin: did you read _The Door into Summer_ 03:35:36 no 03:36:01 ais523: see, I didn't know that either. Learn new things every day! 03:36:07 you write software? how unusual 03:36:15 Gracenotes: yeah, really unexpected isn't it! 03:36:27 fwiw, though, I wasn't intending to single out copumpkin, rather I was trying to inform em about something e might have missed due to not being in the conversation earlier and/or not being able to read my mind 03:37:08 perhaps it's like a Prolog program, where we normally query the software and get copumpkin, but you can also do it the other way around. 03:37:38 anyway shutting down discussion of social justice because it's an unpleasant topic for white men is pretty bad. and that may not be what ais523 is advocating, but it's not clear to me yet that he's not advocating that 03:37:38 no no, I appreciate it, really :) I mostly try to be as non-assholish as possible and it's good to be reminded when I fail 03:37:55 it's not something you can sort out in PM 03:37:59 because it's about *community* standards 03:38:45 the whole ironic asshole thing is something I'm trying to improve about. I should read some scrollback and then probably not bring it back up 03:41:39 while we're at the bottom of this hill, someone should rename "Stalker mode" on http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 03:42:11 social justice is interesting because it requires prior education to talk about constructively; usually this education can't be communicated as part of a single discussion 03:42:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:42:25 I'm not entirely sure what the phrase means 03:43:32 "Social justice is justice exercised within a society, particularly as it is applied to and among the various social classes of a society." cool thanks wikipedia 03:43:54 bleh, even with a definition, I'm /still/ not entirely sure what the phrase means 03:44:07 i'm no expert but i just meant it as "talking about racism sexism etc. and what to do about them" 03:44:08 yes the joke is: that's not a very good definition 03:44:30 but basically yeah, not being dumb to marginalized groups, or "minorities" as the jargon goes 03:44:43 pretty esoteric stuff!! 03:44:58 achieving legal (de jure and de facto), cultural, and socioeconomic equity. 03:45:40 i thought ais523's issue was "objecting to things that are considered harmful by doing them sarcastically", not to talking about them in general 03:45:56 oh, wait 03:45:57 never mind 03:46:03 i was thinking of a different part of the conversation 03:46:14 being aware of the perpetuation of inequity and disavowing personal benefit from it 03:46:40 (and not denying that one benefits from it) 03:46:42 kmc: At least some of us are not heterosexual white men? 03:46:45 shachaf: my objection's to "continuing a discussion that's already been determined to be unhelpful via making a joke" 03:47:05 "determined to be unhelpful" 03:47:07 by whom 03:47:08 pikhq: thanks pikhq ☺ 03:47:24 oh, I took it as pointing out that the ironic thing gets old quickly 03:47:26 I'll keep taking it that way 03:47:38 And if I could get my girlfriend on here we could diversify shit even more. :P 03:48:01 hey, if we could get my 401k on here we could di-- 03:48:02 oh shit 03:48:05 no we couldn't :( 03:48:15 hm yeah 'disavow' might not have been the right word 03:48:16 c.c 03:48:36 abdicating? dunno 03:48:44 abstain 03:48:50 well, you can't, of course 03:49:09 di++ 03:49:24 yeah, some such things are active, others passive... 03:57:49 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:06:57 so anyone have ideas on doing arbitrary computation with iconv? 04:08:03 I guess for a conditional, you can convert back from UTF-8 04:08:09 or similar multibyte encodings 04:11:12 ideally you'd want some sort of encoding with frame ambiguity, though 04:11:17 UTF-8 is, sadly, designed to avoid that 04:12:39 but there are others :) 04:13:07 shift-jis I think 04:13:29 yeah, me not knowing how they work is a problem for working out ways to program with them, though 04:14:34 iconv also supports ISO-2022 which has state that persists across an arbitrary number of bytes 04:25:11 “You can’t hold the World Cup with hospitals” 04:25:19 he makes an excellent point there 04:28:12 -!- ais523 has left ("my worldview is inadequate"). 04:29:18 kmc: iconv state is finite (at best, ~16 words), isn't it? 04:39:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:52:45 for each pass yeah 04:52:57 but each pass can transform an arbitrary length byte sequence 04:53:07 you can't go back though 04:53:10 you would need to apply iconv many times and you would need some external mechanism for looping 04:53:13 right 04:53:23 or the goal is not "arbitrary computation" but something less ambitious 04:54:16 kmc: you may utilize a legacy encoding with no proper round trip 05:19:55 -!- mnoqy has joined. 05:49:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:04:18 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:30:44 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:33:47 -!- hogeyui has joined. 07:01:54 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:02:01 -!- sprocklem has joined. 07:03:37 -!- heroux has joined. 07:08:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:09:36 -!- heroux has joined. 07:54:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:59:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:10:47 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:18:07 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:38:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:38:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:42:31 what's stalker mode? 08:44:02 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:44:29 oklopol: shows the log in real time 08:55:01 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:04:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:18:28 Work done is difference in kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is mass times velocity is force times distance. These are both measured in Joules 09:18:53 i have some quibbles with the mass times velocity part, as i distinctly recall 1/2 m v^2. 09:19:22 mass times velocity is momentum hth 09:19:33 hi oerjan 09:19:37 hichaf 09:19:43 when will you stop saying hth 09:20:04 when i find another overused meme to borrow 09:20:22 why not invent one 09:20:36 you can watch it spread 09:21:00 i recall reddit tried that once 09:21:33 iirc it was quite awful 09:21:51 are you talking about the carrot thing 09:21:57 and didn't precisely spread... yeah 09:22:08 beyond reddit 09:22:10 what about the monoid thing 09:22:17 too easy 09:22:21 i heard that was on ircnet 09:22:33 wow 09:22:45 'xactly 09:25:36 of course there's a writeup at http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/waffles-dont-you-mean-carrots 09:27:22 can http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog get $300,000 in 6 days y/n 09:35:05 incidentally armkrog means "bent arm" in danish hth 09:35:33 (s/g/k/ for norwegian) 09:44:05 Bike, hopefully past tense. The exam is in less than 11 hours <-- HE'S DOOMED 10:26:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:40:07 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:41:42 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 10:42:00 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:01:06 21:39:48: im googling "huge bed" now #drugz 11:01:13 21:41:23: why is there furry porn and a picture of some socks. this is the worst image search ever 11:01:19 ECANNOT_REPRODUCE 11:02:56 they're further down 11:05:45 * oerjan realizes turning off safe search for this was a mistake 11:07:01 this upgraded OS behaves just weirdly and unfamiliarly enough for me to maintain my healthy sense of constant unease 11:07:08 very good decision 11:07:48 still cannot reproduce, though. 11:07:57 i see a lot of huge beds, curiously. 11:08:12 do you want me to go and find it again. are you that desperate to find the furry porn 11:08:23 come to think of it, maybe not. 11:08:35 is it the socks 11:08:54 also, those beds are _not_ huge. 11:09:16 i was assuming there was some obvious absurdity to be found 11:11:24 step 2 in carefully regulating my amount of annoyance and confusion is compiling ghc from source just to get the documentation to build better 11:12:30 results so far: headache 11:13:25 sounds familiar, in general 11:15:54 turns out asus's touchpads don't have very good drivers. and that playing tatham's puzzles with them therefore sucks. 11:17:03 do you want me to buy you a mouse 11:17:38 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:18:03 i have a mouse. it's hard to use it when having the notebook on my lap, which i must since i don't have a proper computer table 11:18:23 do you want me to buy you a computer table 11:18:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:18:37 all i'm saying is i never had trouble with playing them on my old laptop ;_; 11:19:00 (my memory is probably just defective.) 11:19:28 mnoqy: how funny would it be on a scale of 0 to 10 if i actually bought oerjan a computer table 11:20:14 the thing is i don't _really_ want a computer table. 11:20:26 wow, picky. 11:20:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:20:30 gah 11:20:37 it's ok i have another idea 11:20:41 is that like a table you put your computer on or a table that is a computer 11:21:04 what if i buy you a little mousing area that plugs in via usb and gets heated up 11:21:15 if this is not invented then i'm not sure i want to live in the world 11:21:24 i want to live in a small wooden hut with earthen floor and fast broadband, or something. 11:21:26 * oerjan is complicated 11:21:40 how does 2/3 sound 11:23:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:28:55 it's a very nice rational hth 11:32:10 also turns out asus's touchpad driver sometimes crashes. oh it worked again. 11:32:48 (false alarm. what it actually sometimes does is fail to load at reboot.) 11:33:16 er, *reawakening 11:35:01 oerjan: i bet it would work perfectly on.... linux 11:42:04 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:54:16 is mosh failing me <-- i'd say so 12:03:48 `quote 01 12:03:56 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 12:18:24 -!- AnotherTest has left. 12:18:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:22:53 -!- augur has joined. 12:27:40 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:35:33 \o/ \o/ \m/ \m/ _o/\o_ ಠ_ಠ ¯\(°_o)/¯ 12:35:33 | | `\o/´ | | ¯|¯⌠ | | 12:35:33 >\ /< | /'\ >\ >\|/| o/`¯º 12:35:33 (_|¯'¯|_) 12:36:04 oops 12:36:27 \m/ \m/ 12:36:34 wat 12:36:45 \m/ \m/ 12:36:46 `\o/´ 12:36:46 | 12:36:46 /'\ 12:36:46 (_| |_) 12:37:27 @tell myndzi your \m/ \m/ figure is misaligned hth 12:37:28 Consider it noted. 12:37:28 `\o/´ 12:37:28 | 12:37:28 (_|¯´\ 12:37:28 |_) 12:37:51 who/what is myndzi 12:38:06 myndzi is a regular with a script 12:38:20 oh right. 12:44:04 @ask reader's digets used to call that city Frisco 12:44:04 Consider it noted. 12:44:10 wtf 12:44:29 -!- hiato has joined. 12:44:42 the _first_ time i decided to rely on IE 10's cut an paste no longer including end-of-line :( 12:44:54 oh wait never mind 12:44:59 or hm 12:45:16 @ask Does this work? 12:45:16 Consider it noted. 12:45:39 hi 12:46:28 @ask Koen_ reader's digets used to call that city Frisco <-- are you sure they didn't mean the _actual_ city named Frisco hth 12:46:28 Consider it noted. 12:49:14 @tell Koen_ " In 1904, the residents chose Frisco City in honor of the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway on which the town was founded, later shortened to its present name." 12:49:15 Consider it noted. 12:50:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:50:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:51:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 13:00:20 c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c 13:00:21 c.c.cc.c.cc.c.cc.c.cc.c.cc.c.cc.c.c 13:00:21 c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c c.c 13:00:28 beautiful 13:00:40 \o/c.c 13:00:40 c.c.c 13:00:41 c.c 13:00:44 \o/ c.c 13:00:44 | c.c.c 13:00:44 /| c.c 13:00:51 \o/ c.c \o/ 13:00:51 | c.c.c | 13:00:52 >\ c.c /| 13:00:55 god. 13:08:29 @tell oerjan I'll check some day thanks for blowing my mind 13:08:29 Consider it noted. 13:10:38 -!- guestbot has joined. 13:17:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:18:25 @list messages 13:18:25 tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages 13:18:31 @messages-l 13:18:34 Koen_ said 10m 2s ago: I'll check some day thanks for blowing my mind 13:19:36 Koen_: naming your city after something named after another city is rather mind-blowing yeah 13:20:45 ^celebrate 13:20:53 fizzie!! 13:21:35 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 13:23:00 btw does anyone know whether setting the putty keepalive option will help, hurt, or do nothing about short-time-but-not-short-enough network disconnections? 13:23:33 AAAAAAASSS 13:23:41 Whoops. 13:23:48 wat. 13:23:48 ass, fizzie.. 13:23:51 s/\.\././ 13:23:56 fizzie: fungot failuer 13:23:58 That's a good pair of letters to put in the wrong window 13:23:58 That was supposed to be AAAAAAAAAAAAAA. 13:24:18 These touchscreen keyboards. 13:24:49 buttbuttin 13:26:21 hi oerjan 13:26:29 -!- fungot has joined. 13:26:58 hi FireFly you are being swatted for complicating my tab completion of fizzie hth 13:27:55 You could always configure your client to complete nicks in descending alphabetic order 13:29:09 i don't see that option in /set hth 13:30:02 Has the average 'hth' count in your lines exceeded 100% yet? 13:30:10 nope. 13:30:22 You're not helpful. :( 13:30:31 i wonder what completion_auto does 13:30:38 We could encode our messages in permutations of sequences of hth. hth 13:31:30 ion: sounds like a dangerous policy that might lead to brainfuck derivatives hth 13:32:58 fizzie: wait do you mean hth/line fraction if so maybe hth i thought you meant hth/word hth 13:33:01 oops 13:33:09 * oerjan swats fizzie -----### 13:33:25 *FireFly: 13:33:59 Yes, hth/line 13:34:28 apparently irssi suddenly decided to put fizzie first, despite FireFly speaking last 13:34:43 * oerjan swats irssi -----### 13:34:58 Maybe it orders nicks in opposite priority of which you'd want to mention them 13:35:02 you know.. for your discomfort 13:35:12 FireFly: i'm not sure 13:35:42 i think it rather has the strange idea of prioritizing actual completions used over people speaking 13:36:25 oerjan: just talk to me. i have an unambiguous two-letter prefix. 13:37:07 so you do 13:37:16 that has not always been the case 13:38:02 `pastelogs http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4295 13:39:05 well that went well 13:39:17 `pastelogs http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15125 13:40:11 i suppose elly is who i was thinking of 13:41:32 we refer to those as the dark times. 13:41:42 yes. 13:44:28 now the golden times, those come in the future, when you op me. 13:44:38 ^celebrate 13:44:38 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 13:44:39 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 13:44:39 /< >\ /| | /^\ /| /| | /| /< /'\ 13:44:40 /'\ /'¯|_) 13:44:40 (_| |_) (_| 13:45:04 hm those \m/ \m/s look a bit weird 13:45:04 `\o/´ 13:45:04 | 13:45:04 /´\ 13:45:04 (_| |_) 13:45:09 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:45:12 specifically, i have calculated it to be three minutes in the future 13:45:13 mnoqy: i already told him 13:45:20 [STARES AT WATCH] 13:45:33 elliott: a bit off, i think 13:45:53 "elliop" 13:46:44 oerjan: it could also be fizzie that ops me. 13:46:47 my predictions are unclear. 13:46:52 -!- nobody__ has joined. 13:46:56 -!- nobody__ has left. 13:47:12 ic 13:49:36 i think by useful you mean horrible <-- there is actually no contradiction between those hth 13:50:14 o.o 13:50:18 o.o 13:50:32 oh wait 13:50:34 c.c 13:50:34 c.c.c 13:50:34 c.c 13:50:39 WAT 13:50:43 c.c 13:50:43 c.c.c 13:50:44 c.c 13:51:01 WATER. 13:51:21 @tell myndzi " o.o " (only one space in front) looks weird hth 13:51:21 Consider it noted. 13:51:40 @tell myndzi s/o/c/g 13:51:40 Consider it noted. 13:51:46 cnly cne space 13:52:03 oerjan: You are so demanding. 13:52:25 o.o 13:52:26 c.c c.c 13:52:26 c.c.c c.c.c 13:52:26 c.c c.c 13:52:30 um 13:53:00 c.c how abut two spac? 13:53:01 c.c.c 13:53:01 c.c 13:53:10 That's akey. 13:53:19 \o| 13:53:19 | 13:53:19 /´\ 13:54:14 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ 13:54:15 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ 13:54:15 /< c.c /'\ >\| 13:54:19 oops 13:54:40 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ 13:54:40 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ 13:54:40 /< c.c /| /< | 13:55:34 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ c.c \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 13:55:35 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠`\o/´ `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 13:55:35 >\ c.c |\ /< | | | /| |/| c.c /< 13:55:36 (_|¯'¯|_) /´\ 13:55:36 (_| |_) 13:56:13 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ _o_ _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 13:56:13 o.o 13:56:13 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠`\o/´ | | | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 13:56:14 >\ c.c >\ |\| | >\ /< /| | |\|/< c.c /^\ 13:56:14 (_|¯´\ /`\ 13:56:15 |_) (_| |_) 13:56:16 o.o 13:56:18 o.o 13:56:22 oh 13:56:24 that was oerjan. 13:56:26 not my line. 13:56:28 earlier. 13:56:33 ok it makes more sense now 13:56:43 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 13:56:44 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠`\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 13:56:44 |\ c.c /´\ |\| | |\ c.c |\ | /< | |\ c.c /| 13:56:45 /´¯|_) /´\ 13:56:45 (_| (_| |_) 13:57:19 ^def celebrate ul (\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/)S 13:57:19 Defined. 13:57:27 ^celebrate 13:57:27 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 13:57:28 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠`\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 13:57:28 /| c.c |\ /< | | /| c.c >\ | /´\| >\ c.c /| 13:57:28 (_|¯`¯|_) /´\ 13:57:29 (_| |_) 13:59:10 a new and modern festival 14:00:24 how is ghc STILL fuckin compiling 14:01:00 elliott: quite well, i assume 14:01:27 also it's because you don't have an actual supercomputer hth 14:01:50 buy me a new computer!! 14:02:24 (iirc there was some bug report that required one of the simons to buy an EC2 instance to fix it) 14:02:43 or something amazon 14:02:48 @quote expensive 14:02:48 bos says: other companies use expensive firewalls and crypto hardware to protect their intellectual secrets. edwardk uses category theory! 14:02:50 @quote expensive 14:02:50 bos says: other companies use expensive firewalls and crypto hardware to protect their intellectual secrets. edwardk uses category theory! 14:02:54 @quote bug.cost 14:02:54 SimonMarlow says: This is the largest program (in terms of memory requirements) I've ever seen anyone run using GHC. In fact there was no machine in our building capable of running it, I had to 14:02:54 fire up the largest Amazon EC2 instance available (68GB) to debug it - this bug cost me $26. 14:06:30 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:10:30 68 is an odd even number. 14:12:10 oerjan: have I mentioned that I'm ordering people to figure out EC2 pricing on my behalf. you're the next candidate 14:12:59 There's (still) a terabyte of RAM at CSC's http://csc.fi/ shell/serial-job/misc servers. 14:13:03 i'll get back to you as soon as i start buying EC2 instances hth 14:13:24 oerjan: no, it's for _me_, you see. 14:13:36 fizzie: csc.fi are so good they don't even have a web page, apparently 14:13:43 are you going to put lambdabot on EC2 14:13:59 oerjan: well linode have had a rather awful security track record recently... 14:14:09 ic 14:14:15 so it would be kind of nice to move esolangs.org/lambdabot/my IRC client to somewhere I vaguely trust 14:14:44 but EC2's pricing scheme is so ridiculously byzantine that I have absolutely no idea if I can make it affordable or not 14:15:20 elliott: Aw, they're not no-www compatible or something. 14:15:57 (Android's browser lied to me and added www. itself.) 14:16:45 elliott: last thing i recall is someone claiming it's only cost effective for extra capacity at times of high load? 14:16:47 fizzie: you are welcome to supply me with an ssh account 14:17:17 Also, Infiniband. Best name for a technology. 14:17:34 oerjan: that's the general kind of thing I've heard too but I've also heard it could be about equally-priced for vaguely comparable specs to what I have for my Linode more recently if I get a reserved instance 14:17:39 it is v. complicated 14:17:47 ok 14:18:11 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.). 14:22:22 -!- guestbot has quit (Quit: Page closed). 14:22:45 who is that guestbot guy i saw it talk yesterday i think 14:22:58 -!- guestbot has joined. 14:23:06 guestbot: who are you 14:23:12 guestbot: help 14:23:51 it queried hackego once i think 14:23:58 `relcome guestbot 14:24:01 `WELCOME guestbot 14:24:01 ​guestbot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:24:03 GUESTBOT: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 14:24:10 `run welcome guestbot | h 14:24:13 guehstboht: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) 14:24:20 `run relcome guestbot | hyphenate.fi 14:24:24 ​gu-estbot: Welco-me to the in-terna-tio-nal hub for e-so-teric prog-ram-ming lan-gu-a-ge de-sign and dep-lo-y-ment! For more in-for-ma-ti-on, check out our wiki: http://e-so-langs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the ot-her kind of e-sote-ri-ca, try #e-so-te-ric on 14:24:32 oerjan: i feel all necessary precautions have now been taken. 14:24:39 okay 14:25:10 Currently, guestbot is a test for a browser scripted automated irc client 14:25:34 are you for real 14:25:48 elliott: are you for real? 14:25:58 no 14:26:30 is inch a synonym for thumb? <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch#Etymology 14:27:27 -!- guestbot has left. 14:27:44 oerjan, I was indeed doomed 14:28:40 oh dear 14:32:38 which is why the idea of a kilobel or megabel is so earthshattering <-- that's _literally_ earthshattering, of course. 14:32:51 (and no, i'm not misusing literal) 14:33:05 I literally never misuse “literally”. 14:33:26 ok maybe slightly, it's not the _idea_ that is earthshattering. 14:50:01 OH MY GOD IT'S STILL COMPILING 14:50:11 it's been like four hours. 14:51:19 -!- Fiora has joined. 14:54:03 wehat are you compiling 14:54:16 isn't that like normal for ghc 14:55:16 i'm pretty sure it was quicker last time i did this at least 14:55:38 I think I remember someone complaining about how habitually compiling GHC and Android takes a long time. 2013-06-22: 18:47:55 -!- esowiki has joined. 18:47:56 -!- glogbot has joined. 18:47:57 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:47:58 -!- EgoBot has joined. 18:47:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 18:48:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 18:49:01 -!- Gregor has joined. 18:49:30 Gregor: hi 19:03:02 Different point of reference, different wavefunction, and all that stuff, is part of what my point is when I was saying those things. 19:16:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:17:32 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:18:30 -!- AnotherTest has left. 19:19:43 I think this may be the dumbest thing I have ever seen http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/introducing-the-nsa-proof-font 19:19:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 19:20:03 They think it's impossible to have OCR software trained to recognize a new font? 19:20:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:20:33 Also: Their "false" font, which has a large letter and a small letter where the small letter is the real letter, guess what? real a maps to fake z 19:20:41 And so forth 19:20:48 are you aware of captchas 19:21:50 Captchas don't use one specific font though. I think if there was a captcha that always turned a into one of 6 shapes, it would be defeated easily 19:21:58 (There are six 'fonts' in this package) 19:23:00 If it were software that created a new font for each document based on this concept, that might be useful, but as-is? 19:23:00 Where would I be able to find a 100x100 nonogram? 19:23:38 take that NSA 19:23:59 also, 19:24:02 [[Sang has no illusions that even a clever cryptographic font—which you can use in email messages to shield them from snoops and font-recognition bots—will remain encoded for long. They're not meant to be long-term tools with which to combat the NSA. Rather, he views them as an awareness-raising measure. 19:24:07 Read more: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/introducing-the-nsa-proof-font#ixzz2WyW8HBod 19:24:10 ew 19:24:12 oh well ]] 19:24:14 stupid copy-paste hijacker 19:24:14 Oh 19:25:18 The video doesn't exactly make it clear 19:25:45 encoding as images seems kind of inefficient if you're just using it for email 19:26:11 I have no idea where I got that link from 19:29:46 Why does Verilog use a list of I/O ports rather than a single bit vector as the I/O port of a module? 19:30:48 I want to make up "HWPL" which does not have these and the other problem of Verilog and other hardware programming languages. 19:43:27 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:43:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:47:54 Bike: why are you in that channel help 19:48:41 elliott's scheming. 19:48:56 Bike has been in #haskell before! I'm innocent! 19:49:06 although I am scheming. constantly 19:50:11 well take it to #scheme 19:53:10 Oh. Fark. 19:53:22 (Is where I got that link from) 19:53:39 terrible. 19:54:48 http://www.fark.com/comments/7809821/Introducing-NSA-Proof-Font-a-typeface-that-would-be-unreadable-by-text-scanning-software-whether-used-by-a-government-agency-a-lone-hacker-misdirecting-information-sometimes-not-giving-any-at-all 19:54:55 I think most Farkers understand this 20:02:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:05:51 <-- is it just me or does that subreddit have css that places a red dot in a fixed position on the screen, so it looks like something's wrong with it... 20:05:55 oops 20:06:02 * http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1gu52n/back_in_my_day/ <-- 20:07:40 oerjan: I don't see the red dot 20:07:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:09:36 -!- Bike has joined. 20:10:22 OKAY 20:10:46 helloerjan 20:10:50 oh no Bike left 20:10:54 rip 20:10:59 but no he's right there 20:11:01 hike 20:11:05 left #haskell 20:11:07 o 20:11:18 @yow 20:11:18 Are we on STRIKE yet? 20:11:21 what a terrible person (the jokes is that i also left #haskell) 20:11:31 lambdabot: indeed 20:11:32 himc 20:17:13 @yow! 20:17:13 America!! I saw it all!! Vomiting! Waving! JERRY FALWELLING into 20:17:13 your void tube of UHF oblivion!! SAFEWAY of the mind ... 20:17:20 @fortune 20:17:20 Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring. 20:17:22 Oh 20:23:17 so bored 20:23:41 me too. 20:26:52 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 20:26:59 don't ban me 20:27:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.*. 20:27:14 is that about right? 20:27:35 for hagb4rd? looks it 20:27:37 *!*@* would be better. 20:27:43 (ban evasion btw) 20:27:49 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 20:28:00 you could remove the 77. on the grounds that nobody should use a client that advertises itself as "hand-crafted" :P 20:28:11 YOU DON'T SAY 20:28:17 probably 77.* includes, like, a ton of stuff, but I doubt it'll come up 20:28:25 elliott: it's all mediaways 20:28:51 huh. (how do you look that up? I don't really know where to get this information except the ARIN whois stuff) 20:29:10 host 77.0.0.0 on the command line... 20:29:17 oh. that would work. 20:29:37 er except 20:29:41 255.255.255.77.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 77-255-255-255.adsl.inetia.pl. 20:29:49 you don't really want .0.0.0 there do you? 20:29:53 if you want information for the whole of the range 20:30:13 ...i always thought 0 was the wildcard there 20:30:35 Err, what’s wrong with whois? 20:31:37 I would like a hug 20:31:50 @hug Taneb 20:31:50 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 20:32:03 Some things I decided can be: Numbers are binary by default (and can have X and Z in them too), unless you put # or $ to indicate decimal or hexadecimal numbers. All user-defined words must have prefix, so it won't conflict built-ins and binary numbers. The operators + - * / = < > are static operators so it is only used at compile-time; you could check equal at runtime by &(.X~^.Y) instead though. 20:32:07 Is this better? 20:33:58 elliott: hm maybe there isn't actually a wildcard system as i've always thought 20:34:11 ion: how can you use whois to get information like "$ISP owns this range in 77.*"? 20:34:57 whois 77.0.0.0, see where the range ends, add one, whois that, rinse, repeat. 20:35:14 Someone might have made a tool to automate that. 20:35:37 elliott: ok i just tried whois with the exact ip 20:36:20 ion: I assign oerjan :P 20:36:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 20:36:43 zzo38: what are X and Z for 20:36:50 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.*. 20:36:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.180.*. 20:36:59 kmc: X is for an unknown or don't care value, and Z is for high impedance. 20:37:06 did hagb4rd try to evade a ban or osmething? 20:37:06 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 20:37:10 zzo38: ah, for a HDL, I see 20:37:13 wow i thought GmbH was a company 20:37:13 makes sense 20:37:14 i am the worst 20:37:17 that's what whois said the range was, so. 20:37:21 it's a type of company 20:37:35 the famous Inc company 20:37:36 but yeah I thought that too at one point 20:38:08 there's a magazine named Inc but the company is Mansueto Ventures 20:38:17 that's terrible 20:38:21 kmc: utoneq/untoneq was hagb4rd 20:38:25 mind you 77.181 is owned by the same company. oh well. 20:38:28 ok 20:38:39 The things I have written about above aren't sensible unless it is a hardware programming language anyways. 20:39:00 I should have guessed 20:39:07 from patterns of talking 20:39:21 yeah I realised it was a regular but I had to look up the IP to realise it was hagb4rd 20:39:25 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? 20:39:40 who even is hagb4rd 20:39:48 Why else would arithmetic operators only at compile-time and numbers being in binary notation by default? 20:39:49 kmc: I’m looking forward to the monad tutorial he will inevitably write. 20:39:50 oerjan: imo op kmc so I can bother him instead. this is a serious proposal. 20:40:12 i love it when people demand an explanation for X by comparison to some Y or Z they erroneously think is related 20:40:31 kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple 20:40:33 one more element 20:40:36 ;_; 20:41:00 I thought a monad had but one element! 20:41:01 i am willing to serve as an #esoteric op if my service in such capacity is desired 20:41:11 damn that's some campaign speech 20:41:14 kmc for president 20:41:22 Taneb: Which one? 20:41:42 zzo38, I wasn't being serious :P 20:41:51 But, perhaps, the identity element 20:42:35 And now I am sleepy 20:42:42 But it is not even 10 o'clock 20:43:06 "really, a monad is just a category with seven elements where each morphism has two inverses" 20:44:54 each inverser than the other 20:46:01 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:48:48 Bike: Is that unique to monads though? 20:48:55 `addquote 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:49:05 1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:49:07 nooodl: two spaces!! 20:49:28 Well, a set is nothing like a tuple 20:49:38 oh fuck right 20:49:39 R I P 20:49:45 they're just in a file right i could sed it 20:49:45 R I P 20:49:59 a tuple is a set, if that's how you define tuples 20:50:00 h-t-h 20:50:22 a set is a tuple if that's how you define sets! check and mate 20:50:23 (3,3) is a perfectly valid tuple though 20:50:36 check before you mate 20:50:38 paging kuratowski 20:50:41 {3, {3, 3}} is a valid set 20:50:41 it's pretty easy to define ordered pairs with sets, dude 20:50:56 :( 20:50:58 nooodl: Isn't that {3, {3}} though 20:51:02 `run sed -i '1059s/ <[^ ]/ \&/' quotes 20:51:06 No output. 20:51:12 `quote 1059 20:51:14 1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? &lliott> kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:51:14 nah you can't define tuples like that, because 20:51:19 eek 20:51:23 btw defining types like tuples in terms of sets is terrible for mathematics. :( 20:51:24 `revert 20:51:27 Done. 20:51:36 `run sed -i '1059s/ <[^ ]/ &/g' quotes 20:51:37 if you define (a, b) = {a, {b}} 20:51:40 &lliott 20:51:40 ({0}, 0) would be {{0}, {0}} 20:51:41 No output. 20:51:44 `quote 1059 20:51:45 elliott: here, let me define types as products of prime powers 20:51:46 1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:51:56 A tuple is some elements, where they have an inherent order and can repeat 20:52:12 Bike: type. theory. 20:52:18 &lliot 20:52:22 defined in terms of primes. 20:52:23 hth. 20:52:57 i've rewritten the HoTT source as a diophantine. no need to thank me. 20:53:11 thike. 20:53:40 "no need to thank me" that's for sure 20:53:50 my dream: asking a SO question that becomes a #1 google search result, gaining fifty thousand rep for nothing 20:54:14 it's ok, I make a point to thank Bike as little as possible 20:54:48 nooodl: https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=call/cc+implementation&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=EQ_GUbmTIZDwhQetsYCoDg bam 20:54:52 maybe it's not #1 for everyone 20:55:06 elliott: nice 20:55:24 "voted" you "up" 20:55:41 my voting rings expands further 20:55:44 *-s 20:55:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:58:56 `run sed -i '1059s/ utoneq/utoneq/' quotes 20:58:59 No output. 20:59:01 `quote 1059 20:59:02 kmc..... 20:59:03 1059) 05:09 what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:59:05 that's falsifying the quote 20:59:07 elliott..... 20:59:10 oh true 20:59:12 what you should do is fix your client to not include that awful space 20:59:13 fiiiiiine 20:59:14 and then we can repeat the exchange 20:59:18 and add that 20:59:21 `run sed -i '1059s/utoneq/ utoneq/' quotes 20:59:25 "Well, okay, it's enlightening if you already know what it means. " good writing here 20:59:25 No output. 20:59:26 `quote 1059 20:59:27 1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element 20:59:32 Bike: monad tutorial? 20:59:32 Bike: i was pretty tired 21:00:11 call/cc tutorial 21:00:29 kmc: my rambling SO answer 21:00:55 bike: http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont-monad.xhtml 21:01:14 ok 21:01:34 elliott: URL? 21:01:48 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9050725/call-cc-implementation 21:01:55 thike 21:02:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:04:41 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:10:37 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 21:10:50 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 21:11:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:11:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.180.*. 21:11:36 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.*. 21:11:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 21:13:21 what's kiwiirc and why's it banned 21:13:34 kawaiirc 21:13:42 it's hand-crafted 21:14:22 forbidden crafts 21:14:27 also ban evasion 21:16:00 It's also "trusted" by freenode, whatever that means. 21:22:02 Re the earlier discussion on networks, you can ask RIPE whois queries like "77/8 except not the exact match but all first-level more specific inetnum/route objects" to see what all is in a thing. (Though it's a long list for that particular query.) 21:22:59 (Including, among others, some Norwegians, which would be a tragic loss indeed.) 21:23:29 anyway i just extended it to all ips since i found a completely different range in the logs 21:23:48 and afaiu no one else in the channel has ever used that client. 21:24:38 (approximately, anyway) 21:24:40 who's ban evading on kiwiirc, spammers? 21:24:42 "Thor-Henrik Kvandahl" (the admin contact for Telenor Norge's 77.16.0.0/14 block) sounds incredibly stereotypically Norwegian. 21:24:57 At least the Thor-Henrik part. 21:25:02 nooodl^: hagb4rd 21:25:07 thor-henrik 21:26:13 oh good 21:26:18 fizzie: the kvandahl is a stereotypically norwegian toponym. 21:26:23 so yeah. 21:26:40 now there's an objective reason to ban him 21:28:37 that's what's great about ban evasion 21:28:45 like, if I ban someone in #haskell, I hope they evade the ban 21:28:57 because it means I can ban them forever and not have to worry about them appealing 21:29:25 Philosophy question: why are Thunderbird's once-a-day builds codenamed "Daily", while Firefox's are called "Nigthly"? 21:29:39 Nightly, that is. 21:29:46 http://adit.io/posts/2013-04-17-functors,_applicatives,_and_monads_in_pictures.html this is probably the best explanation i've read so far 21:29:48 It would be even more puzzling if they were called Nigthly. 21:33:48 I should write a monad tutorial!! 21:34:05 nooodl^...... 21:34:17 I know exactly what analogy ill use too!! 21:34:56 nooodl^ analogy 21:35:16 monads are like noodles 21:35:25 actually it would work better for comonads 21:35:31 duplicate goes from noodle to nooodle to noooodle 21:35:33 its gonna compare IO to sheet music 21:35:35 21:35:48 myname: That explanation looks like it's full of misleading things. :-( 21:36:03 shachaf: it does? 21:36:07 shachaf: at what point? 21:36:45 For example all 24 points that it talks about "wrapped values". 21:36:58 what's my clever quote about IO String? 21:37:07 @quote IO.String 21:37:07 shachaf says: getLine :: IO String contains a String in the same way that /bin/ls contains a list of files 21:37:13 oh that's your clever quote 21:37:20 I think I had one too, equally clever though 21:37:23 @quote kmc IO.String 21:37:23 kmc says: it is not hard to troll #haskell for real; you just have to get confused and confrontational about how to convert IO String to String 21:37:30 c.c 21:37:33 shachaf: what's wrong with it? 21:37:47 an IO String is not a String that's been wrapped or "tainted" somehow 21:38:03 it's a recipe for how to produce a String by doing some IO 21:38:16 the String doesn't exist yet; you might never execute the recipe, or you might execute it more than once and get different Strings 21:38:24 none of which contradicts the idea that the recipe itself is an inert, pure value 21:38:27 imo shachaf's quote is cleverer than kmc 21:38:28 sorry 21:38:30 :'( 21:38:34 @quote monochrom IO.String 21:38:34 monochrom says: How do I extract the IO out of IO String? 21:38:39 not even cleverer than kmc's quote 21:38:45 I love shachafs quote 21:38:51 myname: but for example a Maybe String *is* a wrapped String (or Nothing) 21:39:05 from which we conclude that this idea of "wrapping" is not fundamental to monads, but a property of the implementation of *some* particular monads 21:39:38 there's very little you can say about all monads in general, because it's such a general interface 21:39:50 people have trouble "understanding monads" partly because they expect there to be more to it than there is 21:40:08 because of all the stupid bullshit hype by detractors and overexcited beginners alike 21:40:16 is there actually anyone who doens't understand this stuff 21:40:37 nah i just go off on autopilot 21:40:42 how is a monad like a writing desk 21:40:43 isn't there like a table of common monad instances and their implementation of return, bind, join 21:40:51 but maybe I've at least convinced myname why "wrapping" is not a good analogy 21:40:57 that'd be a good tutorial 21:41:11 a monad is like a butt 21:41:32 kmc: i agree in the part that "wrapping" as in "putting something around something other" is not a good analogy 21:42:33 So which part is good about that explanation you liked? 21:42:39 do you know about data IO a = Return a | Bind b (b -> IO a) 21:42:54 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:42:57 the visualisation of the types is well made imo 21:43:03 | PutChar Char (IO ()) | GetChar (Char -> IO ()) | ... 21:43:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:43:15 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 21:43:22 help b is not in scope 21:43:23 exactly 21:43:33 (but I think that Bind isn't quite right, also it's existentially quantified or something?) 21:43:49 you would write it as a GADT in a real .hs 21:44:04 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:44:10 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 21:44:39 help 21:44:46 it would be | forall b. Bind (IO b) (b -> IO a) 21:44:56 given that IO String is a string wrapped up in the sense that you need to perform an interactive computation to get it out 21:45:56 "wrapped" meaning "monad"?? 21:46:03 or maybe "covariant".... 21:47:05 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:56:45 katla: no, there is no String in there 21:56:56 it's a description of some IO which you could perform in the future to get a String 21:57:06 well, katla has a point; there often is. 21:57:31 if there exists a sequence of responses to its requests such that it terminates in a Return then there is a String "inside" the IO String in the same way that Bool -> String is a container of two Strings 21:57:39 sometimes, yeah, but that doesn't mean that "wrapping" is a useful way to think about IO String 21:57:48 but I think it mostly shows that "inside" is too vague to really be useful... 21:57:51 but I hate talking about monad tutorials 21:58:01 we can make this analogy work only if we torture the definition of "wrap" to mean something completely alien to its English meaning 21:58:07 which is how a lot of monad tutorials work out 21:58:23 monads are just containers! as long as you forget everything you know about what the word "container" means 21:58:40 @quote kmc just.containers 21:58:40 No quotes match. Maybe you made a typo? 21:58:42 @quote kmc container 21:58:42 kmc says: [After discussing monads, containers, and tortillas] therefore the key difference between a container and a monad is delicious carne asada 21:58:44 @quote kmc container 21:58:44 kmc says: monads are like containers, as long as you forget everything you know about the meaning of the word "container" and take it to be a totally abstract word synonymous with "monad" 21:58:47 monads are like slip covers 21:58:51 kmc: i accuse you of plagiarising yourself 21:59:20 the "analogy" just exists to trick people into learning a new abstract concept without being scared off by omg math words 22:01:36 "A monad has two functions, return and (>>=) --" "OMG math!" "Fine, a monad is like a burrito. A burrito has two functions, return and (>>=) ..." 22:02:38 i agree with you 22:02:51 what does kmc say to vegetarian burritos 22:02:53 checkmate 22:03:17 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50029 22:03:48 You can use Free (CoYoneda f) instead of putting all of the PutChar GetChar in that IO data, which has some problem anyways it isn't a monad (unless it is a private data type), but Free (a functor) is monad, always. 22:03:57 kmc: haha 22:04:05 Free as in CoYoneda 22:04:10 RESOLVED WONTFIX imo 22:04:19 hey kmc do you like CoYoneda 22:04:25 it's "the best type" imo 22:05:06 I am listening to something arond 357 kHz and I have no idea what it is 22:05:52 frames of hitler interleaved with plans to build a wormhole endpoint 22:06:33 Something I thought of is "oracle sequent calculus", add a "oracle operator", for example if it is called # then you add an axiom schema |- #x if and only if |- x is not provable. 22:07:24 so the lesson i'm getting here is: why the hell are CS people scared of math 22:07:57 "wrapping" as in "putting something around something other" <-- also, lol 22:08:00 math is great, but i like my math with less than 3 abstraction layers 22:08:19 Oh, seems to be aeroport related? 22:08:44 myname: Why do you think 3 abstraction layers is too much? 22:08:44 FreeFull: what kind of radio do you have 22:08:53 FreeFull: I got one of the cheap DVB dongle software-defined radios 22:08:53 monads as in haskell seem like a pretty straightforward abstraction 22:09:01 Monads are like monoids in endofunctors 22:09:08 it's pretty neat. doesn't go down to 357 kHz though 22:09:12 kmc: I'm using websdr 22:09:22 zzo38: not "too much", but way to abstract if not told carefully 22:09:31 http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ 22:11:17 nifty 22:11:49 oh it samples the /whole/ spectrum?? wow 22:12:36 whole shortwave or something 22:12:56 I was hoping you meant, like, the /whole/ spectrum. 22:13:14 It'd be cool to listen to gamma rays 22:13:53 wouldn't they be pretty repetitive 22:13:55 alt. white noise 22:16:11 wonder if any neutrino detectors are online in this manner 22:16:20 shachaf is a neutrino detector 22:16:58 elliott has a neutrino allergy 22:17:06 shachaf does too 22:17:18 that would be bad 22:17:30 kmc: it is :'( 22:17:37 good thing kmc is immune 22:17:57 i thought neutrino detectors didn't detect very much. 22:18:02 often. 22:18:30 Bike: I'm sure you could make some sort of a social media game out of one. 22:18:41 It goes "ping" in your facebooks and whatnot. 22:18:46 elliott: for every neutrino we detect there are trillions which go undetected 22:18:49 elliott: scary thought eh 22:22:56 They can only interact through the weak interaction 22:28:05 help there's such a thing as a monadic functor 22:28:10 (not the same as a monad) 22:37:42 mathematicians are the worst 22:37:54 no, shachaf is the worst 22:37:56 mathematicians come in second 22:38:52 :-( 22:39:52 katla: hey did you hear about the homotopy type theory book? I don't know if you're interested 22:40:31 who is katla 22:40:53 i saw it 22:41:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:41:32 -!- sacje has joined. 22:45:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:26:01 bored 23:26:55 lots of people are bored in #esoteric today 23:27:02 is that so 23:27:14 at least three 23:27:15 including me 23:27:20 who is the third 23:28:00 katla 23:28:14 how could you be bored 23:28:23 so much time, so little to do 23:29:28 you ned to think of something new 23:29:36 t play with 23:30:08 shachaf: because life sucks, hope this helps 23:30:31 elliott: instead of being bored you could read some more of that hott book you're such a big fan of 23:31:25 you forgot to consider the part where I'm lazy 23:33:24 have you considered not being lazy 23:33:27 checkmate 23:54:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:56:54 -!- Bike has joined. 2013-06-23: 00:07:54 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:21:14 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:21:14 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:21:14 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:26:24 elliott: can I join the bored 00:26:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:27:07 im not bored anymore so you can use my space 00:27:57 Fiora: how are you all bored 00:28:22 "Herr Slossenn Boschen accompanied himself. The prelude did not suggest a comic song exactly. It was a weird, soulful air. It quite made one’s flesh creep; but we murmured to one another that it was the German method, and prepared to enjoy it." wow this book is great. 00:28:28 A+ would be shachaffed again. 00:29:02 Bike: good old Herr Slossenn Boschen 00:29:32 my hero, imo 00:29:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:30:30 Fiora: you have been counted 00:30:30 Bike: are you sure the two students aren't the real heroes here 00:30:47 * Fiora went out and did some shopping and then kind of half fell asleep 00:30:47 Fiora: you are filling in for katla 00:30:55 katla...? 00:31:09 well, katla was bored earlier. 00:31:14 Fiora: katla was previous bored and is no longer bored. 00:31:23 Therefore we had a boredom-vacuüm 00:31:46 oh. sorry, I just didn't know katla 00:32:55 i don't either. we'll have to squeeze into the don't know katla spot. 00:33:01 this whole system kinda sucks, honestly 00:34:35 what did you shop 00:34:58 is "vacuüm" really correct 00:35:09 seems like that would imply three syllables 00:35:16 kmc: it's the dutch spelling hth 00:35:18 https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacu%C3%BCm 00:35:20 c.c 00:35:20 diacritics in english is like the opposite of correct. we'd have spelled it vacyuyuyum 00:35:32 vijkijm 00:35:42 shachaf: ok 00:38:54 @wn weir 00:38:56 *** "weir" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 00:38:56 weir 00:38:56 n 1: a low dam built across a stream to raise its level or 00:38:56 divert its flow 00:38:56 2: a fence or wattle built across a stream to catch or retain 00:38:58 fish 00:40:54 https://gergely.imreh.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/watch500-e1371887874832.jpg wow these things look really doofy 00:42:48 hey Fiora if you're bored you could read the book Bike is reading 00:42:51 pff 00:42:58 NICE FONT CHOICE LOSER!! 00:43:13 should've used comic sans 00:43:47 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:43:48 yes 00:46:34 three men in a boat? 00:46:37 whats it about 00:46:55 not talking about a dog 00:47:22 why does a book have to be "about" something 00:47:59 current data suggests it's about three men in a boat 00:48:07 it's about a trip four individuals took in a boat on the river 00:48:14 from hexham to finland or something 00:48:23 oh, kingston to oxford 00:48:46 wait there are a lot of kingstons 00:49:00 really it could be about anything 00:49:03 i'm pretty sure it's kingston upon thames. 00:49:19 since. boat 00:49:27 i'm pretty sure it's the memory manufacturer 00:49:34 ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Road,_Oxford it's actually a land boat on the shortest trip ever. 00:49:41 h 00:49:47 s 00:49:53 ☺ 00:49:56 (you're welcome shachaf) 00:50:05 thike 00:50:13 maybe it's a trip from newcastle upon thames 00:50:16 that's a place right 00:50:51 avon upon thames 00:51:08 book? 00:51:22 Fiora: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/308 00:52:17 it's weird looking up the locations and having them exist. 00:52:20 england is weird. 00:52:23 whoa gutenberg's shure changed over the years 00:52:34 i'm not used to things, like. existing. for long periods. 00:52:48 hey this book is only from the 90s 00:52:50 not that long ago 00:53:06 ii dontget it 00:53:23 1890 00:53:24 s 00:53:45 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/images/p255b.jpg i dunno guys this looks awfully like two men in a boat 00:53:52 other points in favor of this book: it's by a double jerome 00:54:12 jerome emorej 00:54:17 Three Men In A Boat But One Of Them Turns Out To Be Invisible 00:54:34 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/images/p281b.jpg ah so that's why they were in the boat 00:54:37 mnoqy: that picture is: Two novices in a boat 00:54:49 mnoqy: that picture is: The trout 00:55:01 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/images/p301b.jpg PRIME THANKS 00:55:03 er 00:55:05 THE PRIME THANKS 00:55:05 hey that trout is actually REDACTED 00:55:26 `thanks prime 00:55:28 Thanks, prime. Thime. 00:55:41 `thanks minister. 00:55:43 Thanks, minister.. Thinister.. 00:55:55 s/\.././g 00:55:59 `yes minister 00:55:59 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/images/p315b.jpg they found the magic man. the end. 00:56:00 minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister \ minister 00:57:00 mnoqy: that man is no man 00:57:02 that's Neptune 00:57:06 (a planet) 00:57:43 yeah that's why hes magic 00:57:51 u think im dumb??? 00:59:26 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:01:01 @tell mnoqy no 01:01:01 Consider it noted. 01:09:38 whoa, dude, http://www.1890s.ca/PDFs/hentschel_bio.pdf 01:10:57 wassat 01:11:15 harris hth 01:11:23 o 01:11:41 Bike: please get a 7-byte nick hth 01:12:04 http://www.php2python.com/ god's work 01:12:08 how many charsper byte 01:12:21 1 hth 01:12:45 kmc: doesn't have anything for SndToJewish 01:12:54 it's JdToJewish 01:13:10 which. wow, it does have. 01:13:17 no wait false alarm. 01:13:28 SndToJewish is a thing too 01:13:59 The first search result: PHP :: Bug #64895 :: interger overflow in SndToJewish 01:14:05 Followed by: PHP up to 5.5.0 RC1 User Input Sanitizer SndToJewish buffer overflow 01:14:07 Now, this is a subject on which I flatter myself I really am au fait. The gentleman who, when I was young, bathed me at wisdom's font for nine guineas a term—no extras—used to say he never knew a boy who could do less work in more time; and I remember my poor grandmother once incidentally observing, in the course of an instruction upon the use of the Prayer-book, that it was highly improbable that I should ever do much that I ought not ... 01:14:13 Followed by: 93968: PHP SndToJewish Function Integer Overflow DoS 01:14:13 ... to do, but that she felt convinced beyond a doubt that I should leave undone pretty well everything that I ought to do. 01:14:27 ion: yeah it was a security vunlerability, pretty rad. 01:15:00 http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.jdtofrench.php ah yes 01:15:02 very helpul 01:15:03 f 01:15:19 If you want to convert a date later than September 22nd 1806, you could use this function. It's a bit crude and due to the fact the original function terminates in the middle of 1806, it uses 1805 as it's 'terminus post quem'. 01:18:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:22:21 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:45:16 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:58:14 Henry VIII. and Anne Boleyn.—Disadvantages of living in same house with pair of lovers.—A trying time for the English nation.—A night search for the picturesque.—Homeless and houseless.—Harris prepares to die.—An angel comes along.—Effect of sudden joy on Harris.—A little supper.—Lunch.—High price for mustard.—A fearful battle.—Maidenhead.—Sailing.—Three fishers.—We are cursed. 02:00:05 exciting 02:00:42 Gracenotes: You should read that book too! 02:01:02 hi Gracenotes 02:01:07 what book indeed? hello 02:01:10 what is the book about though? 02:01:17 why read it 02:01:28 Those are two different questions. 02:01:41 The book is _Three Men in a Boat_, by Jerome K. Jerome. 02:01:43 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/308 02:01:44 Three, if you include mine 02:01:50 Yours is already answered. 02:02:09 Hmm, come to think about it, so was katla's. 02:02:16 17:48 it's about a trip four individuals took in a boat on the river 02:02:44 which river? 02:02:55 Thames 02:05:19 mmm. for some reason, I don't think of Thames as being very wide 02:05:38 I think it gets narrower as it goes inland 02:08:42 also, I visited the marshes at the shoreline in Mountain View today by bike 02:08:54 ok I honestly cannot read "bike" as anything but a name now 02:08:57 it's extremely window, so it looks like static bodies of water are flowing 02:09:00 *windy 02:09:08 and they are flowing, but only at the surface 02:10:26 elliott: who do you think Gracenotes means? i live right by Mountain View. 02:10:40 a place called that. probably the same. i mean how many views of mountains can there be. 02:11:02 Bike: oh you've come to visit Gracenotes? 02:11:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thunder-T.png see, look at their logo. 02:11:16 i bet someone put over nine thousand hours of MS Paint work into that. 02:11:27 I'm not sure if the mountains to be viewed are the ones southwest of here or the ones northeast of here (across the bay) 02:11:43 they probably only had one mountain in mind. 02:11:49 i mean otherwise it would be Mountains View. 02:11:55 california has some p. good mountains 02:12:05 I think it just means that there exists a mountain 02:12:06 better than long island 02:12:44 or it's a good place for mountain-viewing, but choice of mountain is left as discretion for the viewer 02:13:54 okay, I looked it up on the internet, and it is in fact the south/southwest mountains that are being referred to 02:14:04 So what are the other mountains for? 02:14:17 long island is p. long 02:14:32 kmc: california is p. long 02:14:34 not for viewing, obviously 02:14:40 "hence the comparison hth" 02:17:36 oh my, lows of 40 F (4 C) in the winter and 60 F (15 C) in the summer 02:17:41 how will I ever survive 02:18:04 "thx for the C" 02:19:21 "ur walcm" 02:19:57 Cs for security for shachaf 02:20:12 help 02:25:14 Gracenotes: when it was winter here i didn't survive btw 02:28:27 fuck 02:28:40 brb buying plane ticket 02:29:03 too late "u'r already dead" 02:29:07 rip 02:31:23 rip in peace gracenotes 02:31:45 it's nice to know the thames has always been polluted and gross 02:32:16 'always' 02:33:14 always and forever 02:34:19 «As early as the 1300s, the Thames was used as a means of disposing waste produced from the city of London, effectively turning the river into an open sewer. In 1357, Edward III described the state of the river in a proclamation: "...dung and other filth had accumulated in divers places upon the banks of the river with... fumes and other abominable stenches arising therefrom."» 02:35:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink 02:35:53 I have a critical question 02:36:05 kmc: fantastic 02:36:08 if I already plan on putting brussel sprouts in my frittata, will mushroms be a good addition or not? 02:36:16 mushrooms, rather 02:36:32 seems every great city either has a sizeable river or is located on the ocean 02:36:56 what's the best city with neither 02:37:16 hm, tall order. overland transport is kind of hard. 02:37:33 in the past. 02:37:38 ocean or other large body of water, I should say 02:37:39 maybe ulaanbataar, not that it's very big. 02:38:00 oh damn, that's on a river too. 02:38:04 there must be some huge landlocked cities in china by now 02:38:10 but maybe not historically 'great' cities 02:38:31 maybe one of the newer ones. 02:38:42 in outer mongolia maybe? 02:38:50 wow the seine is quite bendy 02:38:51 inner, rather 02:38:58 i wonder if it was more or less bendy in the past 02:39:47 the river in sarajevo is only a few inches deep 02:39:51 but might have been deeper in the past 02:39:53 hrm, the biggest city in inner mongolia is on the yellow river :x 02:40:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:40:50 so's the capital. 02:41:17 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:41:26 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:41:53 hm i think urumqi might be dry. 02:42:15 aha! samarkand. 02:42:34 aha 02:42:42 "Oxus was the ancient Greek name of the Amu Daria River and Transoxiana (beyond the Oxus) was the region between this river and the Yaxarte (Syr Daria River). The city of Samarkand is located in a fertile valley midway between these two rivers. " god dammit. 02:43:59 even phoenix has a river 02:44:16 fuck you, phoenix. 02:45:53 your fucks are better allocated for the rest of arizona 02:46:32 las vegas. 02:48:54 haha kmc 02:49:27 vegas is basically a shithole yes? 02:49:35 well probably 02:49:37 i haven't been there but from what i hear 02:49:40 but no river and that's what's important 02:49:40 Bike: "ve" means "and" in hebrew so i used to think that phrase meant "las and gas" 02:49:47 nice. 02:49:50 Bike: also i didn't actually know it was a place 02:49:53 haha 02:50:01 i thought it was a microsoft word decoration style thing 02:50:03 shachaf: it's hard to get that it exists from ads for it, yeah. 02:50:06 i was p. young 02:50:12 rather than some kind of mystic territory 02:50:19 there's a big themepark for drunk lecherous idiots which exists outside the city itself 02:50:31 i should go sometime though 02:50:48 feel like I can't fully understand American culture if I've never been to Vegas 02:51:42 the city itself is urban decay + recently imported startup hipsters 02:51:49 http://www.bettersolutions.com/word/WVZ299/LL738921911.png 02:52:24 even detroit downtown is fun to visit, I think 02:52:34 what do you do there 02:52:40 in the same sense that las vegas puts a lot of economic effort into its downtown 02:52:47 wow, nevada has less than two dozen incorporated cities 02:52:48 it does? 02:52:51 I dunno, shopping, eating? 02:53:04 kmc: is there that whole casino thing? 02:53:06 i've been to reno 02:53:06 *isn't 02:53:19 kmc: according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada 02:53:34 Gracenotes: the fancy casinos are outside city limits 02:53:52 it really is like a theme park 02:54:00 ah, so, urban decay 02:54:19 huh i don't remember wherever i was being like that 02:54:24 hugeass hotels right in the middle of town 02:54:39 there are casinos and hotels in downtown vegas too but they have a seedy reputation 02:55:06 at least that's my impression; I haven't been there 02:55:39 meanwhile oregon has 242 02:55:46 the CEO of Zappos is spending a bajillion dollars to turn downtown vegas into a startup hipster mecca 02:55:50 maybe i've been overestimating how many cities are in places 02:55:56 and pissing off a lot of people in the process 02:55:59 kmc: why......... 02:56:03 kmc: aren't hipsters supposed to be environmentally conscious or some crap 02:56:14 e.g. buying a whole building of low income housing and evicting everyone to make room for more hipsters 02:56:18 i dunno 02:56:39 hm, standards for "cities" sure do vary a lot between states 02:56:49 https://www.evernote.com/shard/s10/sh/cb5049c0-54e7-477a-92a8-2f49e1fffbf2/96832700c99f170c665364a3414cf92a this is what I read on the subject recently 02:56:53 "Kahlotus is a city in Franklin County, Washington, United States. The population was 193 at the 2010 census" e.g. 02:57:09 kmc: you read that article, as well? 02:57:18 yes 02:57:23 kind of interesting, yeah 02:57:54 I think it's the same way that well-to-do silicon valley types can be very non-intentionally sexist and racist 02:57:54 i've seen infinity versions of "why Bay Area startup culture is awful and is destroying SF" so it was interesting to read one about a different city 02:58:19 and classist, perhaps, in this case 02:58:19 interesting that so much has been written on these topics in the past few months 02:58:47 I agree with most of the criticisms but I'm not sure where this bandwagon is going exactly, or who's pushing it 02:59:00 http://25.media.tumblr.com/df8bcb1d55071af4c977aa82d3bccfcb/tumblr_mor89gqYUE1qcw9rdo1_400.jpg racism 02:59:14 but in another week I will be one of those overpaid Mission software jerks so I'd better figure out my cultural context 03:00:13 before you know it, you'll be bragging about your distance in meters from Mark Zuckerberg and waiting in line for 2 hours to purchase artisan frozen yogurt. 03:00:19 is self-hatred a context 03:00:19 oh no kmc is turning into a jerk :'( 03:00:26 please, waiting in line? i'll hire a taskrabbit to do that for me 03:00:35 Bike: the best context 03:00:53 Gracenotes: You really don't like people who wait in lines, huh? 03:00:53 but if you do it yourself, it makes the instagram so much more rewarding 03:01:01 hehe 03:01:07 i did have some really good ice cream last time I was in SF 03:01:08 shachaf: not for pedestrian things, as such... 03:01:10 only had to wait about 4 minutes 03:01:19 Wasn't it frozen yogurt? 03:01:23 Oh, SF. 03:01:26 salted ginger sundae from Bi-Rite 03:01:29 yeah, different 03:01:39 Gracenotes: When kmc was in Mountain View we went to Yoogl. 03:01:42 the froyo from "Yoogl" was ok but not fantastic 03:01:50 Yep. 03:01:56 I see it as emblematic of something, although I'm trying to figure out what 03:02:08 emblematic of Yoogl 03:02:15 Google runs out of other things to do, acquires Yoogl 03:02:18 perhaps there are better emblems 03:02:27 i want some salted caramel ice cream 03:02:38 quintopia: There's a good place in Palo Alto for it! 03:02:47 also Gracenotes i'm pretty sure you should put mushrooms in your frittata 03:02:51 http://ricksicecream.com/ 03:02:53 palo alto is not on the appalachian trail 03:02:59 I mean, Google NYC has gotten the Big Gay Ice Cream Truck to give out ice cream for free in the past (in one of its cafes) 03:03:00 imo it is 03:03:09 is the big gay ice cream truck a thing 03:03:14 are there like models on it 03:03:16 you should move the town over here 03:03:22 it is a good ice cream store in NYC 03:03:26 an ice cream truck that has sex with other ice cream trucks 03:03:30 and also food truck 03:03:35 i need details re: gay trucks 03:03:36 Best kind. 03:03:45 it is the ice cream itself that is gay, not the truck 03:05:15 or then again, it may be the shop 03:05:18 I'm not certain 03:05:42 kmc: is that like s/ice cream truck/human/g 03:05:48 or is ice cream truck not a species of truck 03:06:07 i don't know 03:06:30 maybe 'ice cream truck' is a gender of truck 03:06:37 confused 😿 03:06:43 gay ice cream sounds good too 03:06:45 how many genders of truck are there 03:06:49 maybe a lot? 03:06:51 plus, it's an identity, not an indication of sexual truck activity 03:06:53 there are a lot of sexes of mushroom 03:06:56 yes true 03:07:05 not directly, at least 03:07:10 or of mushrooms pore anyway 03:07:11 trucktivity 03:07:13 mushroom spore* 03:08:25 Gracenotes: you should grow your own mushrooms for food 03:08:26 it's easy 03:08:41 and you can grow them on recycled newspapers, cardboard, &c 03:08:47 apparently rick's ice cream is under new management and ruined now??????? 03:08:51 :'( 03:08:54 perhaps i will investigate :'( 03:08:55 I don't trust any mushroom I can see grow 03:09:04 its in palo alto? 03:09:06 someone else has to do the growing 03:09:09 why 03:09:15 yes, http://www.yelp.com/biz/ricks-ice-cream-palo-alto 03:09:19 IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAFE 03:09:24 ? 03:09:34 look at all those reviews 03:09:42 oyster mushrooms are very easy to grow yourself and very hard to confuse with any kind of poisonous kind of mushroom 03:09:55 hm, I don't usually cook with oyster mushrooms 03:09:57 not a bad idea 03:10:12 you can even get one from the grocery store and clone its tissue to make more mushrooms 03:10:14 but still, I will defer what is poisonous and not to mycologists 03:10:23 you have cologists? 03:10:30 they don't really do tissue specialization; a bit of the fruiting body can turn back into mycelium easily 03:10:46 "eh, guess i don't really need these penises atm" 03:11:09 kmc: what if i confuse oyster mushrooms with oysters 03:11:16 Gracenotes: for some types the identification is very easy; also if in doubt you can post to http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/3 03:11:19 shachaf: dont 03:11:25 :'( 03:11:49 wow that's so many reviews 03:12:03 i gotta see what's going on there!! 03:12:33 I have made up a format of plugins of Famicom emulator to implement mappers and input devices, which is: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9283&p=113813#p113813 03:13:58 mushrooms are strange that way. I still think they are plants that wanted to become animals. (not exactly evolutionarily, but, from the perspective of the human palate) 03:14:42 which is obviously the end goal of evolution 03:15:17 yes 03:15:22 obviously. 03:15:45 the end goal of evolution is shachaf 03:15:47 hth 03:15:57 so sushi is the end goal of evolution? 03:16:15 no, i'm not sushi 03:16:30 but the end goal of evolution is creating tasty human food 03:16:43 and also creating humans 03:16:51 these are exclusive goals 03:17:01 the trouble with sushi is that it's often made of dead fish 03:17:13 Fiora: That can't be correct. 03:17:20 pretty sure it can be. 03:17:23 i mean have you had sushi. 03:17:48 i had a sushi-like thing with kmc et al. in sf 03:17:49 shachaf: Not always. Sometimes it is made of live fish, and sometimes it doesn't even contain fish. 03:17:58 did that thing count as sushi? not sure 03:19:37 it's fast food sushi 03:20:06 living might be used a bit speciously there 03:21:20 wow, potato peeling technology was in a dismal state in the 1890s 03:21:22 fiiiiiiiiiiiiiish 03:21:47 shachaf: but I guess yours had no fish, so I don't know 03:21:54 "George said it was absurd to have only four potatoes in an Irish stew, so we washed half-a-dozen or so more, and put them in without peeling" jesus christ 03:22:24 isn't the skin supposed to be super? 03:22:26 or something 03:22:38 Bike: did you read _Pippi Longstocking_ hth 03:22:51 no 03:23:03 The skin is poison. 03:23:15 also, I think I did a bit too much burning in my brussel sprout frittata tonight 03:23:16 not really 03:23:19 only if it's turned green 03:23:20 could have used more fats 03:23:33 shachaf: you may or may not be helping hth 03:23:34 kmc: Yes, the skin is poison if it is green. 03:23:47 potatoes are some lovecraftian shit really 03:23:54 good thing they're delicious 03:24:00 the green thing is not perfectly correlated with poisonousness either 03:24:12 It is actually only a small poison though, and it isn't the green part that is poison. 03:24:19 they are basically pure starch 03:24:22 right 03:25:03 gosh, people were making jokes about bagpipes over a hundred years ago 03:25:04 makes u think 03:27:00 think what 03:28:08 yes 03:28:23 yeah. 03:28:54 bagpipes, am i right 03:30:16 most things have an immunity from being ridiculed for a period of time 03:30:33 A Famicom emulator using this input plugin format need to somehow convert the user's input into MIDI; how it does this is specific to the emulator being in use. 03:31:21 What is Famicom? 03:31:24 Oh, NES? 03:31:29 oh boy 03:31:34 japanes 03:32:09 Yes, they are similar to Famicom/NES. 03:33:23 oh man, the description of rowing. 100% accurate 03:35:34 no margin of error there? 03:35:36 I intend to write some Z-machine interpreter for Famicom! Possibly Z-machine version 1 to 3, at first. The only existing iNES mapper I know that will do it is MMC5 although I have designed a simpler mapper with two 74xx series ICs, but this simpler one isn't emulated. However, the thing I don't know is how to make division/modulo of 16-bits in 6502 code. 03:35:40 Do you know? 03:36:26 district attorneys, am I right? https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/nyregion/after-sexual-abuse-case-a-hasidic-accuser-is-shunned-then-indicted.html?_r=2& 03:37:06 Gracenotes: none 03:39:02 Gracenotes: nasty. 03:39:39 if someone offers you money to keep something secret, you're actually extorting them 03:39:49 til 03:40:22 people in remotely popular cases always do that shit. 03:40:31 the zimmerman attorneys are playing similarly, apparently 03:42:07 a lot of non-hasidic-jew people I've talked to, even jews themselves, have had nothing but negative experiences with hasidic jews in NYC :/ 03:42:18 jews are friendly, right? right? 03:42:30 anyway... not worth harping on, though... 03:42:56 all i know is that hasidists are like theologically conservative and wear hats? 03:43:00 yeah it is a weird, insular community that is quite hostile to the outside world 03:43:16 even though they live in the middle of a fucking world city 03:44:28 http://nymag.com/realestate/neighborhoods/2010/65356/ 03:44:44 hm, I am going to be feeling this sunburn tomorrow 03:44:51 (moreso than today) 03:45:09 i remember when i removed my hair and then walked in the sun for a few hours 03:45:24 'Over at Search Engine Roundtable they have a lovely write-up about Chabad at Stanford’s “Google Glass Tefillin Stand.” Apparently students were given a chance to try on Google Glass and use it to put on Tefillin - complete with the blessings and Shema prayer. 03:45:29 ' 03:45:36 should really get sunscreen, especially if I'm going to be going to places with almost no cloud cover, no trees, very windy, and close to shiny water 03:46:03 scantily clad female riders 03:46:05 I've never seen it transliterated as shema 03:47:11 ...apparently it's common 03:48:39 Bike: did you know it's legal for women to be topless in public in NYC 03:49:00 kmc: although I think SF wins that one 03:49:07 -!- katla has quit (Quit: .). 03:49:30 kmc: yeah but only because of a webcomic i read, so that hardly counts 03:50:06 Gracenotes: i have also heard it is legal for women to be topless in public in SF 03:50:16 however full nudity (for men or women) is now illegal 03:50:21 outside of certain special events 03:50:37 ah... yes, that's been in the works for a while 03:50:46 I didn't see that it actually passed 03:51:11 it's probably a result of nudists not caring much about towel etiquette 03:51:43 ...among other things 03:51:54 and also people who make generalizations 03:52:03 they're the worst, generalizers 04:08:22 still bored :/ 04:08:37 get a job!! 04:08:43 you're not my real father! 04:09:17 kmc: have you learned rust yet 04:09:26 is there a well known thing in math like a "partial permutation", i.e. f :: X -> Maybe X such that if x ≠ y then f x ≠ f y unless they're both Nothing? 04:09:38 shachaf: no, that's a thing I could do I suppose 04:11:25 @google partial permutation 04:11:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_permutation 04:11:26 Title: Partial permutation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 04:11:29 is your thing like that 04:11:31 i'm playing with this idea of computation through character reëncoding and I think a reëncode operation is like one of these 04:11:43 not sure 04:12:19 probably some reëncodings aren't injective either but I'm setting that aside for now 04:14:03 that looks like the same, i think. 04:14:14 with "the special hole symbol" instead of nothing. 04:14:38 U+1F3C9 'SPECIAL HOLE SYMBOL' 04:15:13 → used to mark special holes on maps 04:17:23 special holes, eh? 04:22:21 well, that book was amusing. 04:26:50 http://sfist.com/attachments/SFist_AndrewD/frankchu_pinklady_davitydave.jpg san francisco 04:37:47 -!- amca has joined. 04:41:11 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:46:19 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:48:24 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:48:44 -!- carado has joined. 05:31:26 much is made of the way the Internet provides global access to knowledge, but I should think that access to beauty is at least as significant 05:31:48 I think it's really cool how most of the music ever written is now available anywhere for free 05:32:07 i must say i quite enjoy that. 05:33:15 on the other hand most of it has drums in it 05:33:23 so can you truly call it beauty? 05:33:40 shachaf: I listened to Set Fire to Flames today, some of that didn't have drums 05:33:47 most paintings also have oil in them hth 05:33:55 (am I doing a good shachaf impression) 05:33:55 shachaf is condemned to eternal post-rock. 05:33:59 horrifying 05:34:00 it's a GY!BE side project of sorts 05:34:12 oh i didn't know that 05:34:25 i just, kind of assume all post-rock is made by individuals, with goatees or something probably 05:34:28 haha 05:34:30 and they live in canada 05:34:35 you're right about that part 05:34:41 Fiora: "hth" isn't a shachaf impression... 05:34:48 Fiora: It's an oerjan impression. hth 05:34:49 oh... I don't know who does that then >_< 05:34:52 I'm sorry 05:35:03 I,I Data.Set.Set Fire 05:35:05 i think hth is just an #esoteric thing. 05:35:14 i've seen it crop up elsewhere 05:35:39 hth and abbreviations 'p.' and 'v.' were both popular on SomethingAwful shitposting subforums years ago 05:35:50 oh no :'( 05:35:54 Laissez's Faire and YOSPOS 05:35:54 yeah i picked up "p." from a goon 05:35:57 figures 05:36:12 i've heard so many horror stories about laissez's faire 05:36:19 help 05:36:27 kmc: what about cobol "is that the place to be" 05:36:40 last time i looked at cobol it seemed pretty dull. 05:37:17 there's a lot of overlap in terms of personnel between GY!BE and {A,The,Thee} Silver Mount Zion {,Reveries,Memorial Orchestra,Memorial Orchestra & Tra-La-La Band,Memorial Orchestra and Tra-La-La Band with Choir} 05:37:27 help 05:37:28 Fiora: Also I'm not sure what point you were making? 05:38:01 also some of the same people decided to play Yiddish folk music under the name Black Ox Orkestar 05:38:11 'hth' is a good marker of sincerity 05:38:13 help i'm drowning in stereotypes. 05:39:06 Gracenotes: or lack thereof? 05:39:11 if you can't say something acerbic and witty, say something sincere. is the usual strategy. 05:39:57 btw the newest GY!BE album is really good 05:40:06 if you can't say something acerbic and witty, don't say anything at all 05:40:36 what's the new album called 05:40:45 (is it expressible in unicode) 05:42:01 not everything is expressible, after all. The Artist Formerly Known as Prince still doesn't have a character 05:42:14 surely not to do with trademark law 05:44:21 it's called 'Allelujah! Don't Bend! Ascend! 05:44:27 heh. 05:44:30 including that leading quote 05:44:38 so it's ascii, v. boring 05:44:44 http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/yi.FrRlICOSy2dxEhRG_oQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/finance/2013-06-17/d08066ad-f8b7-4fb6-b276-b50b7cb4df55_PSYCH.jpg 05:44:50 not like F♯ A♯ ∞ 05:45:04 That's not a quote! 05:46:52 or that programming language, coctothorpe 05:47:31 I've only listened to a little bit of GY!BE in the past 05:49:37 "...it also appears on bandmember Aidan Girt's related project 1-Speed Bike's debut album Droopy Butt Begone! (2000)" 05:50:29 of course they use fixies. 05:50:48 i must object pedantically that not all 1-speed bikes are fixies 05:52:28 also TIL some bikes use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hub_gear instead of a deraileur 05:52:32 cool looking 05:53:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Speed1c.png 05:53:39 ooh, epicyclic gears 05:54:53 also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaft-driven_bicycle 05:55:24 i'm so behind on the world of my people. 05:55:45 hm that would be nice because it wouldn't try to eat my pants 05:55:46 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:56:23 do i want to buy a €2000 shaft driven dutch electric folding bicycle 05:56:56 no hth 05:57:01 pretty sure i do 05:57:43 ok yes hth 05:57:48 v. good 05:58:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:07:44 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:09:45 -!- conehead has joined. 06:12:54 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:42:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:24:56 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:32:53 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:44:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:45:13 -!- TodPunk has joined. 07:48:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:48:40 Hello 07:48:47 Hi 07:49:07 -!- AnotherTest has left. 07:49:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:49:12 bye. 07:49:26 "2 slow" 07:49:34 Ugh, why does middle mouseclick close my tabs 07:49:46 And why do I click the middle button 07:49:49 Hello from a TRAIN trains are the best oh no I was even slowest 07:50:07 fizzie: #cslounge-trains is the channel for that 07:50:44 The Wi-Fi in this train is the worst though #zerothworldproblems 07:51:03 TRAAAAAIN 07:51:06 train whence whither 07:51:24 Helsinki to Joensuu. 07:52:24 I bet the wifi is better than the wifi on the Hexham to Newcastle train 07:52:41 This used to be like six hours but nowadays it's four and a half. 07:53:23 Fun fact: "Joensuu" can be translated "Joe's mouth". 07:53:32 Taneb: here in america they haven't invented trains yet but there are buses 07:53:36 sometimes they have wifi 07:53:59 (Though really it's "river's mouth".) 07:54:09 Is the river called Joe? 07:54:15 man. pedestrian trains. that's some sci-fi shit. 07:55:15 Bike: hey you could take the train here so san francisco 07:56:14 Sadly, the river is called "Pielisjoki". 07:57:00 Hmm, I missed my N000th birthday. :-( 07:57:10 (Pielinen is the related lake.) 07:57:13 i took the train past salem once but that's about it. 07:57:23 Does Pielinen mean Pasty 07:57:25 *Pastry 07:57:57 shachaf: what radix? 07:58:01 Taneb: Not as far as I know. 07:58:07 AnotherTest: 10 07:58:16 ==Bike 07:58:27 N? 07:59:08 Oh no 07:59:17 Because it sounds like "Pie lining" 07:59:26 `quote mezzoforte 07:59:29 Do people use flexible number systems where you can use digits larger than the base? 07:59:30 417) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 07:59:32 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 07:59:34 brb 08:00:01 fizzie: that would just mean making the base larger 08:01:45 AnotherTest: No, it wouldn't. 08:01:53 Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs? 08:02:24 fizzie: Hm. I am puzzled 08:02:28 AnotherTest: E.g. A0 in flexible base-ten would be 10*10. 08:02:45 hm 08:02:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:03:10 fizzie: That sounds awful. :-( 08:03:10 You'd have multiple encodings of same number, of cvoursr. 08:03:22 Of cvoursr you would. 08:03:24 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 08:04:10 I tried to be fast on a touchscreen keyboard. 08:04:37 So 08:04:46 B00 = 11 * 10 * 10? 08:05:02 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:05:05 oh no 08:05:11 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 08:05:34 What about A00B 08:05:41 Also, the Finnish lake wiki does not know the etymology of the name "Pielinen". 08:06:20 AnotherTest: 10*10^3 + 11. 08:07:05 oh right 08:08:03 So AA = 110 = B0 08:08:20 Just sum_i x_i * 10^i but with (some) x_i >= 10. 08:09:05 Back 08:10:25 Flexible base-ten? Is that something like what dc does? 08:11:08 I don't recall what dc does, but maybe it isd. 08:11:44 Regardless of what the input base is in dc, you can always use 0 to 9 and A to F as digits, and it will do like that. 08:13:10 Apparently so. 08:14:53 `run echo AA B0 110 f | dc 08:14:55 110 \ 110 \ 110 08:19:43 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 08:23:53 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:26:36 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 08:27:53 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:31:43 -!- TodPunk has joined. 08:34:50 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 08:35:14 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:37:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:39:26 -!- tertu has joined. 08:41:31 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:47:46 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:57:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 09:01:19 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 09:14:54 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 09:15:13 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:18:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:34:09 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:36:01 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 10:11:13 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:11:36 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 10:14:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:30:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:06:45 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:21:50 -!- hogeyui has joined. 11:22:07 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:24:46 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:36:04 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 11:37:23 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:37:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:57:53 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:00:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 12:15:34 kmc: should i learn to ride a bicycle [in: re: bike talk] 12:16:20 elliott: what........youdon'tknowhowtorideabicycle....... 12:16:25 oops i forgot how to press space 12:17:02 no you didn't 12:17:05 i think i knew at one point 12:17:08 but only barely 12:17:27 elliott: well i forgot to do it for about three words 12:17:34 then i liked the effect so i finished the sentence 12:17:36 you should learn unicycling instead 12:18:10 elliott: Yes, you should learn to ride a bicycle. 12:18:20 But first you should learn how to ride a bicycle, if you don't know. 12:20:48 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:24:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:25:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:33:19 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 12:34:18 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:42:33 -!- katla has joined. 12:43:52 -!- katla has quit (Client Quit). 12:45:44 -!- katla has joined. 13:18:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:19:29 -!- trollkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:23:29 hi copumpkin 13:29:09 -!- sacje has joined. 14:07:36 omg 14:08:06 katla: welcome back! 14:09:04 -!- carado has joined. 14:11:04 ty 14:14:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:20:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:20:37 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:23:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:24:00 -!- amca has quit (Quit: Farewell). 14:30:18 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:30:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 14:47:45 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:34:02 -!- Yonkie has joined. 17:01:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:00:15 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 18:07:03 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:12:56 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 18:21:50 copumpkin its kinda boring 18:35:45 I can't figure out how to make a not gate in this cellular automaton 18:37:39 elliott: yes, you should 18:38:05 kmc: before or after the LSD 18:38:07 elliott: you don't know how to bike?? 18:38:10 or simultaneously 18:38:12 gotta order my kmc advices 18:38:18 mnoqy: well i actually don't know if i do or not... 18:38:27 like i'm pretty sure i "sort of" could at one point? 18:38:27 horrifying. 18:38:52 AND and OR are pretty easy 18:39:37 a glider gun that turns off when struck? 18:40:29 {AND, OR} isn't functionally complete, yeah 18:40:31 which CA FreeFull 18:42:41 shachaf: should I pester sites that submit login credentials over HTTPS but serve the login form over plain HTTP? 18:42:49 or is this one of those things where everyone does it and you'll never get them to change 18:44:11 kmc: JvN29/Nobili32/Hutton32 18:44:21 FreeFull: what 18:44:30 Woops 18:44:32 katla: ^ 18:48:46 -!- conehead has joined. 18:54:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:07:05 katla: Any help 19:07:58 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:10:02 i dont know this CA 19:11:35 i'm messing around with it right now 19:11:44 it's cute 19:11:51 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 19:11:52 it's not a very catchy name 19:12:20 oh shit, von neumann's, huh 19:13:52 FreeFull: how would a not gate even work 19:14:30 output a bunch of green arrows all the time unless it receives a blue arrow? (pro technical terms) 19:14:37 i mean receives a green arrow 19:14:58 i mean "excited ordinary transmission state" 19:15:12 that would make sense to me 19:15:12 nooodl: That'd be a true inverter 19:15:18 Although alternatives are welcome too 19:16:02 AND and OR are very easy 19:16:14 OR is just multiple wires leading into the same spot 19:16:23 AND is the same, but that spot has a green thing there 19:17:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:18:01 I have a feeling it's more complicated than it seems 19:18:20 A switch should be easy enough though 19:20:09 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 19:20:36 Yeah, a switch is very easy 19:21:29 So I guess you could make an inverter if you figure out how to grab the leading edge of a continuous current 19:22:04 It'd have a limit on how often it could be toggled though 19:23:48 i'm bad at this 19:24:16 i managed to create a continuous stream of green thingies! i guess that's something 19:24:56 nooodl: It's not that easy if you don't have a convienient reference 19:25:45 I managed to make a switch 19:26:07 ok so there was a very easy way to do what i just did. oops 19:27:34 Yeah, there is 19:28:49 nooodl: Try making a switch 19:29:10 oooh ca 19:31:07 I wonder how you'd go about getting the leading edge of a signal 19:31:36 JvN29/Nobili32/Hutton32 is this in the naming scheme of some program? 19:31:52 is it not golly's? 19:31:58 * Bike assumes everybody working with CAs uses golly. 19:32:23 http://golly.sourceforge.net/Help/Algorithms/JvN.html 19:33:18 Well, golly doesn't do all CAs 19:33:24 But yeah, I am using golly right now 19:33:44 hmmmm i found a way to disable the stream 19:33:50 but how to turn it on again... 19:34:32 i haven't done much with golly 19:34:44 enough to know that it's really primitive 19:35:31 oklopol: I bet you only messed around with one rule 19:35:44 yeah pretty much 19:35:47 http://i.imgur.com/I7neyO2.png 19:35:49 FreeFull: ^ 19:35:54 we implemented the thing i mentioned the other day in golly 19:35:58 am i vaguely on the right track? 19:36:10 we usually use mathematica for experimentation, it's at least slightly more usable 19:36:56 s/experimentation/playing around/ 19:37:53 i don't even know how to use the red arrows 19:38:06 sending signals to them makes them... disappear... 19:39:17 nooodl: Oh, the cyan diamond becomes an and gate if it has more than one input 19:39:23 yup 19:39:30 i mean golly doesn't even compute preimages 19:39:32 the fuck 19:39:36 nooodl: What I did was use red arrows 19:39:45 or check invertibility 19:39:51 oh i think i see what you mean 19:40:35 oops i don't 19:41:21 i can't open those :( 19:41:34 "The address wasn't understood" 19:42:06 the rle's i mean 19:42:58 but 29 states? that sounds way too complicated to work with 19:43:05 is it? 19:43:31 nah it makes a lot of sense 19:44:04 are some of the states like tails of moving particles or something like that 19:44:21 basically you have "wires" that you send signals over, encoding which symbol to make at the end of the wire in binary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VonNeumann_CA_demo.gif 19:46:06 i think i've seen a constructor arm draw and undraw something in an example in maybe cellebration, perhaps it was this rule 19:46:20 probably 19:47:27 FreeFull: i got it!! 19:47:40 :D 19:51:50 How often do normal people do laundry? 19:52:29 varies, probably about once a week 19:52:34 Oh 19:52:51 that's among people i know anyway, which ≠ "normal people" 19:52:52 I've been doing it once a week, it's kind of frustrating having a weekly chore like that though 19:52:58 sure 19:53:02 you can buy more clothes and do laundry less often 19:53:26 buy more clothes and never do laundry 19:56:47 If I want to bring dead norns back to life, I should probably work on that rather than reading a book (note: norns are virtual creatures, not real. So there, I'm not tricking anyone) 19:57:37 yes 19:57:55 what if it's a book about how to bring dead norns back to life 19:58:45 A book on reverse engineering would probably help... or ... some way of understanding undocumented binary data files 19:59:22 My current plans are to try to get a copy of a norn, alive, and then kill it, and compare with some sort of hex editor comparison thing 19:59:29 I know that program exists, I've used it before 19:59:31 Years ago 20:00:17 what if dead norns are free()d. tragic imo 20:02:52 Not looking in memory, but to export 20:03:14 Which saves norns on disk. Don't think it's possible with the normal UI to export a dead norn, but a bit of CAOS should do the trick 20:03:36 Although it might not, and even if it does, what if a bunch of critical data is deleted... 20:08:49 looks like a lot of rain coming 20:09:02 in the particular region of the world I am living in 20:09:05 currently 20:13:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:24:54 kmc: it depends on how much you care hth 20:24:59 ? 20:25:30 https 20:25:43 Sgeo: you do laundry when you need your clothes cleaned, hth 20:25:56 You could probably make some difference sometimes but probably the people you talk to won't care on average. 20:26:06 what are you talking about 20:26:12 shachaf....................... 20:26:28 he seems to be talking about that https thing you mentioned ages ago 20:26:30 oh HTTPS login forms? 20:26:31 ah 20:26:44 What about https login forms? 20:27:04 14:42 <+kmc> shachaf: should I pester sites that submit login credentials over HTTPS but serve the login form over plain HTTP? 20:27:49 Ah 20:28:10 l/last pester 20:28:13 oops 20:28:16 kmc: that was at 19:42 hth 20:29:03 *20:42 20:29:13 kmc: Yes. 20:31:18 EV certificates are fun 20:32:21 Why not have registrars be the ones to sign certificates? 20:33:16 Seems to make sense, it's the registrar who you buy foo.com from, the registrar should be the one to prove you bought foo.com 20:33:34 Don't know how that would work with independently operated subdomains though 20:33:46 I guess it is OK for low security sites to say that active attacks are outside the threat model 20:33:55 but I think people underestimate how easy active attacks are 20:34:03 or really any attack where they haven't seen it done 20:34:56 I bet you can find a lot of interesting stuff by sitting in cafés in SF and running an open wifi access point 20:36:58 I don't really know how to run an active attack, perhaps it would be useful to learn a bit more about that stuff 20:42:23 too fucking hot here (Boston) 20:42:57 move to sf hth 20:42:58 going to hit 97°F / 36°C tomorrow 20:42:59 come on 20:43:04 shachaf: working on it 20:43:11 my cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuube arrives tomorrow 20:43:37 what's a cube 20:43:38 what's cu+be 20:43:42 HI FUCK YOU BIKE??? :( 20:43:48 <3 20:43:50 helliott 20:43:58 helliott, b/c i'm from hell 20:44:26 moving cube 20:44:33 Someone should warn elliott about the perils of being so rude. 20:44:43 they park a big box in my driveway, I fill it with all my stuff, then they pick it up and haul it to SF 20:44:51 oh one of those cubes 20:45:10 shachaf: what are those perils, exactly? 20:45:48 kmc: nobody knows where the cube came from or who owns it. for years we have moved like this. we dare not watch the cube. we tell ourselves stories about how it must get moved but the truth is we don't want to know. cube 20:45:50 olsner: for example people might not enjoy being around you 20:45:58 you might be kicked out of the channel and/or country 20:46:16 elliott: seems accurate 20:47:34 kmc: the real question is what kind of cube would want to go to san francisco amirite 20:47:39 a cube is convenient if you only have weekends available 20:47:45 tbh my stuff is all still in NY 20:47:51 and I haven't made plans to bring it over here yet 20:48:08 it costs money 20:48:20 a fair amount of my stuff is still in NY even though I left NY three years ago 20:48:24 also costs your soul. the secret bargain of the cube 20:48:29 most notably a queen size bed + mattress 20:48:34 which is probably full of bedbugs by now :'( 20:48:37 it's more of a rectangular prism 20:48:48 that's what people tell themselves yes 20:48:51 oh, Gracenotes is here now 20:48:53 bedbugs die after 3-9months without people around 20:48:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:49:02 ...I think 20:49:04 they're being stored in an apt not cold storage 20:49:10 Gracenotes: oh good 20:49:11 i think........ i'm not sure tbh 20:49:13 it just has dead beadbugs then 20:49:15 friend of a friend of a friend has them 20:49:37 maybe they sleep in it to feed the bed bugs 20:49:43 clearly 20:50:10 anyway it will probably cost less to buy a new bed than to ship one across the country 20:50:11 aptly cold 20:51:28 why didn't you simply bring the bed when you moved out of wherever you lived it? 20:51:42 wouldn't fit in the cube 20:51:46 beds aren't really cube-y, see 20:51:58 oh, it only accepts cube-shaped objects? 20:52:07 yes. there are Rules, olsner 20:52:29 there are stories of those who put non-cube-shaped objects in the cube but nobody has ever met somebody who has done so 20:52:45 They tried and failed? 20:53:13 hehe 20:53:26 that move was not by cuuuuuuuuuube it was by TRAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN 20:53:33 which is probably full of bedbugs by now :'( 20:53:40 olsner: no the cube ate them, RIP 20:53:45 why... would bedbugs colonise an empty matress 20:53:53 spite 20:53:55 yes 20:53:57 that's a very long game they're playing 20:54:08 i saw a bedbug at mcdonald's once 20:54:41 bad times 20:55:45 alive or dead? I think they're supposed to kill them before making burgers out of them 20:55:49 haha 20:55:54 alive, crawling on the furniture 20:56:05 nice 20:56:09 that sounds like a radiohead lyric but i don't think it is 20:56:49 bedbugs don't transmit HIV or other bloodborne diseases 20:56:55 last i saw, nobody is quite sure why 20:57:01 mosiquitos don't transmit HIV either 20:57:02 v. fortunate 20:57:41 alive and crawling on the furniture describes me looking for the snooze button 20:57:57 haha 20:58:08 there's a difference in dimension between me and a bed bug though 20:58:24 bedbugs are intruders from the seventh dimension 21:02:29 yep 21:02:38 yeah, once I slept on my bed and got bite-looking marks, but I think it was just skin irritation 21:02:46 this was like a week ago 21:02:47 and they are actually about the size of elephants, it's just that only the very tips of their snout-tips protrude into our little 3d subspace 21:03:01 bedbug bites are pretty distinctive 21:03:07 raised itchy red bumps, usually in groups 21:03:29 yeah, these were not really raised in the same way mosquito marks are. er.. probably. 21:03:30 sometimes i find little beatles in my bed but they aren't bedbugs 21:03:43 they're probably just foraging for delicious dead skin flakes 21:03:46 do they play music 21:03:48 no 21:03:55 do they have a beat at least 21:03:56 -!- sprocklem has joined. 21:03:58 no 21:04:05 wow tell them to rename themselves 21:04:13 yes 21:04:16 i have misspelled a word :( 21:04:26 I'm a bit more discriminatory about the dead skin flakes I eat 21:04:34 than a beetle 21:04:42 kmc: it's on your permanent record hth 21:04:43 I have a finer palate imo 21:05:11 Gracenotes also plays the piano "unlike kmc's bedbeatles" 21:05:19 yeah, I play the piano 21:05:22 I have a beat 21:05:37 in summary I am a lot better than a beetle/beatle 21:06:21 Why does Facebook have mixed content? 21:07:52 aare you a white nationalist 21:08:26 lool 21:12:01 the fuck 21:12:04 should i sgeo... 21:12:28 As in, http content is displayed despite using https 21:12:40 That should have been obvious as to being what I meant 21:12:56 completely, yes 21:13:40 i wasn't listening 21:15:41 `? mad 21:15:43 ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 21:19:44 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:28:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:29:01 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 21:33:59 -!- katla has joined. 21:35:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:38:40 Tomorrow afternoon, I start doing all the things I have meant to do for a while 21:38:47 1) Learn Agda 21:38:56 2) Write tutorial for the tables library 21:39:11 ... 21:39:15 I can't think of any more 21:39:16 what's it like, performing actions 21:39:16 Wait 21:39:22 3) think of more things to do 21:39:32 4) Spraypaint these toy guns gold 21:40:01 what's (4) for 21:40:12 now you're talking 21:40:19 kmc, Homestuck cosplay, I am afraid 21:40:35 do they have orange tips and are you spraypainting those too 21:40:48 I am not sure what the relevant law is in this country 21:41:04 maybe find out 21:41:08 I believe because they are obviously not real guns and I am not going to be using them in a threatening manner I should be safef 21:41:13 before you get shot by the po-lice 21:41:17 obviously, he says 21:41:30 Taneb: is that based on a specific reading of the law or on 'common sense' 21:41:49 because, the law does not follow 'common sense' 21:42:35 kmc, a specific reading of a website once 21:42:44 very reliable 21:43:07 ok 21:43:45 anyway Happy Don't Get Shot By The Police While Cosplaying Homestuck Day 21:43:58 the best day 21:44:02 Thank you 21:45:28 5) organize picnic 21:46:06 6) fix new graphics card driver problems, unrelated to the Chinese Graphics Card problem 21:47:34 7) identify monads which do not have an applicative instance, or applicatives which do not have a functor instance, or monads which don't have a functor instance on Hackage, and fix them 21:48:19 why would you follow that nice long list with something useful like 7 21:48:36 olsner, for what it's worth, I've already started 7 21:48:46 oh my 21:49:00 8) figure out a kind of beer I like other than Budweiser 21:49:26 9) attend picnic that I have organized 21:50:00 do you mean the american Budweiser? 21:50:28 I mean the Budweiser that I can and have bought in the UK 21:51:22 sounds like both the US and the German beer can be purchased in the UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budweiser 21:51:33 Hmm 21:51:40 Looking at the logos I suspect it is the US one 21:51:41 er German / Czech 21:52:55 that is such a boring beer 21:53:11 I am not a very good beer drinker 21:53:28 Most beers I can only drink a pint and a half before I sort of slow right down with the drinking 21:53:43 US Budweiser I can keep going past three pints 21:54:37 ok 21:55:01 I prefer wine, but wine goes straight to my head and then I fall over 21:55:14 Do not like the taste of stronger alcohol at all 21:55:46 Or cider, for that matter, but that is because I don't really like the taste of apple juice 21:56:13 10) find the charger for my phone 21:57:01 11) figure out what one is actually supposed to do when in a relationship 21:57:45 12) learn how to use one or more of pipes/conduit etc 21:58:05 13) fix that C program I wrote ages ago that never actually worked but should interpret SK calculus 21:59:28 14) watch Supernatural 21:59:42 I think that should do for now 22:00:22 i've never drinken beer 22:00:24 * elliott baby irl 22:00:39 isn't beer carbonated 22:00:57 by which i mean has those carbon dioxide bubbles i don't care how they got in there!! 22:01:07 in that sense, yes it can be 22:01:08 elliott, isn't it your 18th in about two months? 22:01:28 yes 22:01:53 I don't recommend beer except for social reasons, it isn't actually that nice 22:02:16 Taneb: which drugz would you recommend 22:02:23 "for social reasons" == to get drunk? 22:02:38 to get drunk /in society/ see 22:03:09 olsner, Bike knows what's what 22:03:21 i think beer is tasty 22:03:22 shachaf, paracetamol is good for headaches! 22:03:30 it comes in a lot of different kinds 22:03:34 But I here ibuprofen is good too 22:03:37 *hear 22:03:39 paracetamol is pretty dangerous 22:04:05 i might be interested in beer except for the drunkenness part 22:04:09 kmc, my house is full of paracetamol 22:04:11 elliott, try shandy 22:04:21 well it's not like you just have a beer and instantly start dancing on tables. 22:04:31 Bike: i think you'll find that is exactly how it works 22:04:38 :o!!! 22:04:49 Bike, I dance on tables before beer 22:04:53 Am I doing something wrong? 22:04:54 Well yeah, me too. 22:04:56 I'm just saying. 22:05:01 I almost never dance on tables 22:05:03 Stupid scrabble doesn't accept 'init', fuck you scrabble 22:05:18 it's spelled innit, innit 22:05:24 Bike: uh, you can accept whatever words you like, hth 22:05:30 > init "init" 22:05:31 "ini" 22:06:51 i've read that a lot of the effects of alcohol intoxication turn out to be culture-bound 22:07:01 -!- katla has quit (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.). 22:07:32 some university here secretly replaced all the beer with alcohol free beer, everyone got pretendshitfaced anyway 22:07:41 yep 22:07:49 psychology: the troll science 22:07:52 yep 22:07:59 free beer as in free lunch, not as in alcohol free beer 22:08:03 it provides a social context where it's somewhat more ok to make a fool of yourself 22:08:08 and people take advantage of that 22:08:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alcohol_use_disorders_world_map_-_DALY_-_WHO2004.svg wow 22:08:20 alcohol: the #esoteric of life 22:08:29 wait maybe that's just me 22:08:49 #esoteric: the alcohol of death 22:08:59 uhhhh what's that country above ukraine 22:09:03 blanking here 22:09:07 belarus? 22:09:09 where the hell is ukraine? 22:09:25 what about belarus 22:09:26 oh yeah belarus. 22:09:27 hmm, russia? 22:09:30 olsner: south of belarus 22:10:03 I have a friend in Minsk, who has a friend in Pinsk, whose friend in Omsk has friend in Tomsk with friend in Akmolinsk 22:10:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:10:41 hi oerjan we missed you 22:10:58 hmm, did serbia and montenegro use to be one country called "Serbia and Montenegro"? 22:11:09 yeah. 22:11:14 the small bright red country next to ukraine is hungary I guess 22:11:30 so speaking of drugz 22:11:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKqV_ybCS-I this is great 22:11:35 everyone should see it 22:11:53 i like how "so speaking of drugz" works as a transition regardless of whether drugz were in fact being spoken of previously 22:11:59 it was tho 22:12:04 i'm good at segue 22:12:14 yeah but the conversation had kind of moved on from drugz 22:12:17 but the impact was still there 22:12:22 like hell that's gonna stop me 22:12:35 wait i saw this video like ten years ago 22:12:42 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:00 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:13:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HarmCausedByDrugsTable.svg 22:13:53 elliott: was it good then too 22:14:10 looks like meth has a pretty good ratio between self-harm and other-harm 22:14:17 With four NAND gates (a single IC, if you aren't counting the PRG ROM, PRG RAM, and CHR ROM/RAM), you can add 8K PRG RAM (with the added ability to write to two variables at once if wanted), an extra 32K PRG ROM bank (which cannot be accessed during rendering, therefore you might store level data which is loaded into RAM), and increase the number of possible tiles from 256 to 320. 22:15:05 `addquote the trouble with sushi is that it's often made of dead fish 22:15:09 1060) the trouble with sushi is that it's often made of dead fish 22:16:16 i would also recommend kyle for more 'drugz videos' 22:17:13 Isn't sushi rice and vinegar 22:17:57 Bike: when you move to sf kmc can be your dealer too 22:17:57 Shouldn't I be in bed 22:17:58 yeah, sushi refers to the rice 22:18:44 i had a dream where my computer was stolen 22:18:47 and i had no backups 22:18:48 and i was sad 22:18:54 (hint i actually do have no backups) 22:19:27 no-one has backups 22:20:11 I also don't have backups :( 22:20:41 elliott: yes well my files are more important than your files so it's a bigger deal 22:20:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5gh77AD9ZU 22:20:51 also i have $50 of unused tarsnap credit 22:21:04 and about 0.5MB of files that i would really be sad if i lost 22:21:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:21:08 so :'( 22:21:19 is tarsnap a sex thing 22:21:33 Bike: what isn't 22:22:19 what are the 0.5 mbs of files 22:22:59 drugz 22:23:34 cyberdrugz 22:24:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdwchohlMjI i'm just going to watch kyle all day now 22:24:21 i have backups but not off-site 22:24:25 also they're all horribly organized 22:24:42 drugzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 22:24:49 kmc: are you going to put your backups in your cube 22:24:59 it's all like backup-20130126/backup2/home/keegan/backup/backup-20120708/home/keegan/backup/backup-20110916/ 22:25:04 nice 22:25:17 i just dump my home folder everywhere 22:25:21 except also that in tarballs so it's hard to search 22:25:33 kmc: are they all like, on the same disk... 22:25:36 i'm kind of surprised there isn't a more standard solution for making a tarball with random access 22:25:39 elliott: yes 22:25:48 kmc: :') 22:25:48 recursive backups 22:25:50 kmc: but like 22:25:55 kmc: on the disk that you're actually backing up from 22:25:56 elliott: after enough nesting your backups go to a parallel dimension 22:26:01 no 22:26:03 ok good 22:26:15 the whole pile is synced to several drives 22:26:29 i for one keep all my horse porn on RAID 22:26:49 i don't think i have any horse porn 22:27:00 want me to hook you up 22:27:05 no thank you 22:27:21 kmc: should i become a member of "hackerdojo"............................ 22:27:24 you don't think, but you're not sure 22:27:33 shachaf: stupid name, might be cool tho? 22:27:39 finally i can learn to be a ninja 22:28:21 is it full of startup douchebags 22:28:44 not sure 22:28:52 teaching martial arts to startup douchebags might be lucrative 22:28:53 and is that better or worse than noisebridge's complement of white supremicists and homeless crackheads 22:29:02 charge them approximately a billion per session 22:30:06 Bike: you should help them invent their own new 'disruptive' form of martial arts 22:30:14 it's much better because it's designed by programmers and YC alumni 22:30:23 then film them as they hurt themselves in hilarious ways 22:30:49 shachaf: also you should get a job and move to the city 22:30:54 hell yes. 22:31:03 kmc: what job/city 22:31:10 good job / good city 22:31:16 san fran cisco 22:31:40 maybe boxing 22:31:49 boxers are damn good 22:31:54 kmc: good city 22:32:14 what job 22:33:49 kmc: should i get a job and move to the city 22:34:01 elliott: yes 22:34:30 are there any cities in england 22:34:37 i know scotland has some 22:34:45 you could move to scotland 22:34:46 i assumed the city is SF 22:34:50 oh 22:34:53 I think they call them towns in england 22:34:54 that works too 22:34:56 maybe i'll move to scotland if they declare independence 22:34:56 Mega City Two 22:39:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:39:48 the City of London 22:41:49 i could never live in london i think 22:43:09 y not 22:43:18 well have you seen london 22:43:27 only in period dramas. 22:47:57 the City is the tiny financial district right? 22:48:03 those are usually not a great place to actually live 22:48:28 well i meant london in general 22:48:33 but yeah the city is like.. a mile or something 22:51:34 Fiora: you might be interested in http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2013/06/23/bitsets-match-regular-expressions/ 22:51:44 also it relates to that approximate matching "agrep" stuff y'all were talking about 22:54:58 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:55:19 -!- mnoqy has joined. 22:56:55 bike was throwing that at me the other day actually O_O it was really tricky to understand 22:57:14 wow that's a long post, okay, I'll try to understand it again 22:58:12 it has annotated assembly, just as god intended 22:58:41 well, anyway, the NSA is no longer a threat http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/06/us_offensive_cy.html#c1538650 22:59:12 NSA would have their work cut out for them trying to logic bomb a hardened gentoo or even fedora workstation running grsec and selinux policy, surrounded by a locked down openbsd network firewall and router. 22:59:51 *smokes a joint rolled from pages of Neuromancer* 23:00:20 kmc: whoa this looks cool 23:00:45 agrep is pretty cool 23:01:07 when he tweeted that thing i was inspired enough to write a shitty implementation of bitap on fixed strings with no errors 23:01:54 and then fail to explain it to fiora or anybody 23:01:56 and so here we are. 23:02:59 Which is more generally loathed, Cold Fusion or PHP? 23:03:15 that is a very sad question 23:03:19 i order you to cease considering it 23:03:32 look at bitap instead 23:09:14 ohhhhhhhh. the state machine thing makes so much more sense 23:09:32 so basically you check all letters of the input for "A" in the case of "ABAD" 23:09:45 then you AND with "is each letter B", shifted by 1 23:09:52 then you and with "is each letter A", shifted by 1 23:09:55 that is so cool 23:10:00 er, shifted by 2 23:11:43 told you. 23:12:01 god i'm stuck on these comments though 23:12:08 "So the US military develops a set of weapons which are almost useless against both it's official enemies ( a bunch of terrorists living in medieval conditions in Afghanistan) and it's unofficial enemies (China) - but which it is itself uniquely vulnerable to. Isn't this a little like Superman developing a kryptonite bomb?" 23:12:24 hehe 23:12:58 Actually I find OBSD to be far less complex and easier to master than windows or apple products. 23:13:12 obviously a typical mind 23:14:00 pkhuong's code just defines the intrinsics right there. man 23:14:01 told me...? 23:14:17 I didn't read the whole graph manipulation section, that seems a little scary 23:14:34 told you it was so cool. 23:22:39 Bike, which weapons are these specifically 23:23:00 cyberweapons 23:23:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:25:45 wh... how are the chinese not vulnerable to cyberwarfare 23:27:46 i have no idea. the article that's a comment on is about US cyberwarfare against china. 23:27:51 it's possible, just slightly, that the comment is dumb 23:28:10 probably the commenter thinks that china is so much better at cyberwarfare than the US 23:28:13 which is maybe true 23:28:31 but infosec is so absurdly biased towards attackers right now that third-rate attacks can go through first-rate defense 23:28:58 * Bike imagines cyberwarfare WWI, shudders 23:29:14 * kmc emails Bike a ZIP file of chlorine gas 23:29:22 oh nooooo 23:30:27 your antivirus won't help you 23:30:49 @messages 23:30:51 this summer.... 23:34:50 http://blog.talkingphilosophy.com/?p=6344 old timey flamewars are so great 23:37:28 @tell Taneb functor is a superclass of applicative already so you don't need to check functor hth 23:37:28 Consider it noted. 23:39:00 @tell taneb might want to check for alternative vs. monadplus, though. 23:39:00 Consider it noted. 23:51:41 Bike: good 23:54:58 -!- katla has joined. 23:55:36 hi 23:57:15 hi 23:57:21 `relcome katla 23:57:24 ​katla: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:57:30 hi 23:57:40 im depressed 23:57:53 katla, did the rainbow welcome cheer you up 23:58:01 yeah 2013-06-24: 00:01:42 why are you depressed? 00:02:35 my life is bad 00:02:44 no friends 00:07:14 where do you live? 00:07:23 uk 00:07:28 what kinds of things are you interested in 00:07:31 katla: :( 00:07:38 katla: clinically, or just sad? 00:07:46 clinically 00:07:52 aww, that sucks 00:08:07 dont know about interests 00:08:18 i know that i need to pick up some 00:08:25 not sure which 00:08:49 can you think of anything you enjoy doing? 00:10:28 you were talking about haskell and theory of computation before, right? 00:11:16 there are a few Haskell meetup groups in the UK 00:11:28 yeah i used to be into programing languages but not really a nymore 00:11:38 something something anhedonia 00:12:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:17:54 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:02 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:19:37 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:22:02 Can you play mahjong? 00:22:07 no 00:23:51 Can you play chess? 00:24:21 badly 00:24:48 Clinical depression is t3h suck. 00:25:59 t3h 00:26:19 oh no now you said it too... 00:26:23 Yes. 73|-|. 00:26:30 oh no 00:27:03 los soque 00:27:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:35:19 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:50:43 damn i thought you guys would cure me 00:53:34 fresh out of panacea, srry 00:54:06 sorry! I guess I was kind of in that trap a year or two ago (though I still kind of am) of "oh gosh I need to find non-programming hobbies and friends and communities and things" 00:54:13 but I'm not sure I have a magic answer 00:55:38 Fiora how did it go? 00:56:04 did you makeprogress 00:56:50 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:58:41 * Fiora tries to put it into words... I kind of went and dived into non-sciencey things (since I was already a hopeless wikipedia-absorbing science doof), especially things I could socialize with others about (even like, online) 00:59:14 like for me I went and read homestuck and got involved with that, I played more games of the sort with fandoms I could bond with others about (Persona, Tales, etc) 00:59:56 and generally like trying to aim my attention at everything other than programming to counter way too many years of academia 00:59:59 sounds good 01:00:52 and take the chance (10 years late) to be a bit more, well, girly about things, I guess 01:01:07 hmm maybe i should try that 01:01:09 i don't really have a desire for non-programming hobbies, so much as more non-programmer friends 01:01:18 clearly these are related though 01:01:39 my girlfriend knows a lot about plants & birds & mushrooms and that sort of thing, and I've really enjoyed learning about that 01:01:43 and having more excuses to go outside 01:01:55 kmc: Does she know what birds are? 01:02:03 I had a very narrow focus growing up and now it's neat to learn some of the things I'd been ignoring 01:02:08 shachaf: probably 01:02:11 whoa 01:02:52 speaking of whoa, "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; America Online Browser 1.1; rev1.2; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)" 01:03:04 I think that's a referer spam bot, though. 01:03:06 user-agent strings own. 01:03:11 america on line 01:03:21 also, i'm clinically depressed and doing uhhhhh better. school and stuff. 01:03:56 kmc: that's really how I felt to, I was like, gosh all this stuff outside programming is /so fun and interesting/. 01:04:16 also learned a little bit about cooking, baking, etc 01:04:18 fun stuff 01:04:22 going to try homebrewing beer I think 01:04:27 and I mean it wasn't totally new t me, like, I mean, I was bombarded with astronomy/physics stuff before I learned programming even but 01:05:11 but that's not quite as far away from programming as fandoms or writing or cooking or... 01:06:28 Good if you know some things about astronomy and physics. I am also interested in physics. But I am also interested in mathematics. 01:06:53 We should all aspire to be more like zzo38. 01:06:59 (Just a bit more, though.) 01:07:55 * shachaf goes to play Potion of Confusing again. 01:08:17 Four bombs only! 01:08:19 zzo38 what mathematics are you interested in 01:08:21 This time maybe you know how to do it better? 01:08:30 Notice also that Jesus saves. 01:08:39 Does Jesus save all those who do not save themselves? 01:09:02 I guess it makes me kind of weird though because I'm now like, a programmer who sometimes would rather write fanfic than code... 01:09:13 katla: All mathematics in general, really. However, I have studied various mathematical things in Wikipedia such as category theory and logic and surreal numbers too. 01:09:26 Fiora: Why write fanfic and not just fic? 01:09:38 because I'm even worse at fic <.< 01:09:42 Fiora: Well, I suppose some people don't always want to write the same thing. (That includes myself.) 01:09:56 Fiora: imo you should write fic 01:10:23 maybe you can get your own fans 01:10:25 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 01:10:42 Fiora: well I don't think it *should* be weird for programmers to sometimes want to do things other than programming 01:11:16 the archetypal obsessive programmer is not really a happy or healthy character 01:11:32 kmc: I agree. Sometimes I play Dungeons&Dragons game. Sometimes you write on the IRC. See? 01:11:35 yeah 01:11:40 i don't spend that much time programming really 01:11:59 but it might be how i spend most of my 'structured' time 01:12:00 Fiora but you didnt meet any new friends 01:12:03 ? 01:12:04 kmc: real programmers write n their weblogs all day about what real programmers do 01:12:10 seriously 01:12:24 Actually I have a C program open right now which I am also working on. 01:12:33 zzo38: Is it a Famicomulator? 01:12:55 Maybe zzo38 should move to SF and work on Rust! 01:12:55 katla: I met a lot of new people online I guess? I mean like almost everyone I know now, I know through non-programmer-related connections, I think 01:13:02 Just imagine rust.zzo38.moed. 01:13:08 oh thats cool 01:13:26 shachaf: No, it isn't, this one is a Z-machine interpreter with SDL. However, maybe I will try to make Famicom emulator too afterward at some time. 01:13:48 it suits business interests for young people to think that a singleminded obsessive is what they're supposed to be :/ 01:15:13 Well, being obsessive of it can help too. 01:16:17 imo you should be fix (obsessed with being) 01:17:19 shachaf: I think that might be difficult. But, you have to be (among other things too), to be genius. 01:19:03 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kWGMkslnkdg/TzCiO7moT5I/AAAAAAAAKlE/OreQvmM8SxA/s1600/calvin_hobbes_dont_knock_smock_2.gif 01:19:53 Fiora: you should become a fan of calvin and hobbes 01:20:03 and then write calvin and hobbes fan fiction (or not) 01:20:16 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 01:20:42 Hmm. Computability topology. A hypothetical topology on N, such that the set of all continuous functions N -> {0, 1} is equal to the set of all computable functions N -> {0, 1}, given the discrete topology on {0, 1}. 01:21:39 Is the intersection of two computable sets a computable set? Yes. Is the union of arbitrarily many computable sets a computable set? No. 01:22:31 http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1989/07/15 01:22:38 Wait, why not? 01:22:39 http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/07/26 01:22:53 or wait you mean recursive and not recursively enumerable alt. i don't remember how anything works. 01:22:55 So that doesn't work. If we use the Sierpi(n with an acute accent)ski topology, nothing changes. 01:23:07 Yeah, I do mean recursive, not recursively enumerable. 01:23:25 If we're talking recursively enumerable... then yes, if we say that the open sets are precisely the recursively enumerable sets, we have a topology. 01:23:34 Wait, do we... yes, we do. 01:23:45 How is the union of recursive sets not recursive? 01:24:13 Wait, no, we don't. 01:24:34 Any set {a, b, c, ...} can be written as the union of the sets {a}, {b}, {c}, ..., each of which is recursively enumerable. 01:24:41 Recursive, for that matter. 01:26:03 This seems like the sort of thing that ought to make a topology somehow. 01:26:15 Can we say the open sets are those sets which are *not* recursively enumerable? 01:26:45 Uh... clearly not, since the empty set and N are both recursively enumerable (recursive, for that matter). 01:32:46 katla: sorry! don't feel compelled to stay, but I remember you used to be around quite a bit and everyone was wondering where you'd gone! 01:33:08 #epigram still has your topic :P 01:33:19 yeah 01:33:42 You are also not compelled to type something all the time even if you do stay. 01:33:51 -!- carado_ has joined. 01:34:11 However, even if you don't, you can still read the message on the logs, so that's OK anyways. 01:35:05 #epigram must have so many cobwebs 01:35:32 didn't pigworker say that epigram is dead 01:35:47 long live epigram 01:38:05 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:39:48 -!- sprocklem has joined. 01:59:10 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 02:17:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:17:37 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:23:14 -!- katla has quit (Quit: katla has no reason). 02:32:24 Should I read that HoTT book everyone's talking about? 02:32:53 yeah 02:33:10 damn, katla left 02:35:01 eh, quit earlier too 02:35:08 they've been in and out 02:59:11 -!- TodPunk has joined. 02:59:53 good night kmc 03:00:07 @night elliott 03:00:07 Unknown command, try @list 03:00:09 oopse 03:00:13 ♞ elliott 03:00:52 night elliott 03:01:12 nelliott 03:01:31 good nelliott 03:01:32 nellie lovett 03:01:42 elliott's secret identity?! 03:02:12 elliott's secret Identity?! 03:02:57 elliott's secret runIdentity?! 03:14:05 kmc: it's monad joke o'clock in #haskell are you sure you don't want to join 03:14:35 I suppose, shachaf. I sachaf. 03:15:20 y'all are really bad at convincing people to join #haskell 03:15:52 ;_; 03:15:57 Bike: well it's an insider's club 03:16:09 we never wanted y'all to join anyway 03:16:11 too good for you 03:16:37 You wouldn’t be able to afford the monthly fee anyway. 03:17:37 Bike: you should come to #haskell btw 03:17:41 it's the best 03:18:20 i just made the monad jokes stop with my iron fist 03:18:26 @yarr 03:18:26 Is that a hornpipe in yer pocket, or arr ya just happy ta see me? 03:18:42 bike: You already have missed many monad jokes, you should join soon. 03:19:11 Is that a monad in yer monad, or arr ya just ap-y ta see me? 03:19:33 you're welcome 03:20:20 @arr 03:20:20 Swab the deck! 03:20:30 @array 03:20:30 Ahoy mateys 03:21:17 GHC should also just pick the closest match silently instead of erroring out and telling you about them. 03:21:27 A.k.a. DWIM 03:22:15 DWIM is great because it's really do what you think i think you will think i think you will mean 03:22:23 much better than just saying what you want 03:24:08 Also, in case of a type error, GHC should substitute values (including functions) with others in scope that make the type error go away. 03:24:54 why limit it to scope!? 03:25:19 True, it might as well import modules when it seems to help. And install packages, too. 03:25:36 it's just more convenient 03:26:19 ion: Simpler to use unsafeCoerce. 03:26:24 never ever give the programmer an error message 03:26:26 they hate those 03:27:43 if you must give an error message it should be inserted at an arbitrary location in the HTML you're serving to users 03:28:01 Upon finding the substitutions that fix the program, GHC should also modify the source file automatically. 03:30:39 or delete it 04:20:20 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:20:45 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:44:55 -!- asdfasd has joined. 04:48:32 i wonder if hagfish can be caught in finland 04:48:43 they exist in sweden apparently 04:49:13 -!- asdfasd has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:51:54 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 05:02:22 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:18 -!- asdfasd has joined. 05:07:51 -!- TodPunk has joined. 05:08:06 -!- sprocklem has joined. 05:09:22 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:39:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:42:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:10:02 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Bye). 06:21:47 -!- asdfasd has changed nick to GOMADWarrior. 06:22:47 kmc: did you see http://www.concatenation.org/futures/whatsexpected.pdf by chiang 06:23:19 (v. short, one page) 06:24:41 not yet but I just realized he wrote http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6786/full/405517a0.html too 06:24:44 which is good and i did read it 06:26:17 Oh, I think that was in the book. 06:27:33 is this transhumanist 06:27:33 * kmc has read it now 06:27:34 v. good 06:56:30 -!- augur has changed nick to Israel_B_. 06:56:45 -!- Israel_B_ has changed nick to augur. 06:59:36 -!- augur has changed nick to israel_b. 06:59:48 -!- israel_b has changed nick to augur. 07:03:55 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:05:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:07:43 -!- Bike has joined. 07:13:45 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:23:39 -!- sprocklem has joined. 07:33:49 -!- carado_ has joined. 07:57:53 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 08:00:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:16:54 -!- carado has joined. 08:20:26 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:22:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:33:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:51:39 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 09:04:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:05:05 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:05:33 Hello 09:20:17 Last week I found a book in the library titled "Can smart people believe in God?" I agree with much of what they wrote but I think they have too much Christian bias in some of their arguments. 09:20:56 (The author is Christian, and I don't blame that, but I think the argument is too much Christian bias anyways.) 09:21:56 They compared being scientific but not spiritual, or being spiritual but not scientific, as being like watching the universe with only one eye open. 09:22:22 I suppose I can see the analogy there. 09:22:33 I do disagree with some things he writes, though. 09:26:21 They say even atheists believe in things, depending on the atheists, such as Randomness, etc. Randomness? Isn't that like believing in your left hand but not the rest of your body and your surroundings? It is an analogy I made up, because, it is only a part of it! 09:28:14 What do *you* think of this????? 09:29:06 zzo38: I agree with you. 09:30:02 shachaf: Entirely with what I wrote, or..... something else? 09:31:21 Yes. 09:32:06 Do you have any other comments about this? 09:32:29 Only this one. 09:33:25 O, OK. But, I don't think you should agree/disagree without questioning it at first. If you do that at first, then OK. 09:33:59 I considered questioning it, but you had used so many question marks that I wasn't sure whether I'd have any left. 09:34:39 Yes you can have whatever you want left. 09:35:35 Do I have any rights left? 09:35:48 Yes, I think so. 09:51:47 -!- sacje has joined. 09:53:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:56:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:05:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:06:33 I can't into rivers 10:07:28 oops 10:09:44 did you into river 10:12:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:14:45 oh no, into river! 10:14:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:31:17 kmc: i read the rust tutorial. it looks p. good 10:40:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:06:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:07:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:08:02 Aaaah hi 11:10:33 why did you say aaaah 11:12:17 Because I just finished exams 11:19:39 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:06:11 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:26:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:28:21 oops 12:28:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 12:34:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:37:11 AAAA carpenters 12:37:19 (i let them in, too) 12:38:49 kmc: Does she know what birds are? <-- birds are dinosaurs hth 12:38:53 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:42:10 01:09:56: Fiora: imo you should write fic 12:42:10 01:10:23: maybe you can get your own fans 12:42:22 are there any fanfics that have their own fanfics 12:54:32 Taneb: FREEDOM? 13:01:38 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:15:09 -!- katla has joined. 13:16:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:18:10 -!- katla has left. 13:18:13 -!- katla has joined. 13:40:33 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:56:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 13:59:08 -!- abumirqaan has changed nick to upgrayeddd. 14:01:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 14:02:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*elieser22@*. 14:02:20 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 14:02:38 let's see if his connection has fixed itself. 14:03:12 oerjan: that wasn't a connection issue really, they /parted not /quit 14:03:17 well maybe they have a really weird bouncer or something 14:03:27 probably they've gotten bored now though 14:03:28 well ok 14:04:29 > 2794285/86400 14:04:31 32.341261574074075 14:10:48 i wish freenode didn't keep resetting the ban dates 14:11:13 hi 14:12:59 it's sort of nice to be able to see which bans are old... 14:15:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:16:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 14:23:18 hi kmc :) 14:24:50 i am up early to receive a shipment 14:27:08 @time kmc 14:27:09 Local time for kmc is Mon Jun 24 10:27:08 2013 14:27:16 that is early 14:27:26 though later than what I expect when most people say "early" 14:27:42 since apparently people are superhumans who think getting up at 9 am is reasonable or whatever 14:29:23 yeah what's with that 14:30:01 people are superhumans who think being /at work/ at 9 am is reasonable 14:30:39 when i was in high school i had to be at school by 8 or whatever but I could also exist on zero sleep back then 14:30:52 if you too have this power elliott: enjoy it while it lasts 14:31:16 kmc: uh it depends what you mean by "exist" 14:31:37 like I frequently have not slept in 24 hours but I wouldn't say I function particularly well under those circumstances 14:32:33 does mozilla involve being at work at 9 am "the worst possible thing" 14:32:39 i don't think it does 14:33:05 i don't mean absolute number of hours without any sleep at all 14:33:16 more like can you function on 4 hours of sleep a night indefinitely 14:34:49 how can you take on a job without first figuring out whether you need to be up at an ungodly hour. adults 14:34:56 anyway uh I haven't really tried 14:34:59 well I have a few times 14:35:10 I guess I can theoretically do it but would want to die pretty quickly 14:35:46 being woken up by an alarm is the worst experience 14:36:02 Would Not Recommend 14:38:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:41:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:44:54 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:45:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:03:54 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:11:07 it's usually expected that your working hours have at least some overlap with other people's working hours 15:11:21 e.g. so you can talk at each other and pretend to collaborate 15:23:51 i recall my dad's workplace had something like "core hours" when you had to be there, but then a part outside that which you could choose more freely. 15:24:28 yeah, that's common 15:24:54 Mozilla has lots of people working remotely and from different time zones 15:25:20 their attitude about offices is like... if there's an office near you and you want space there, you can have it 15:25:26 but they do have really nice offices 15:25:43 kmc: it takes a special kind of person to work from a different time zone without actually being in a different place 15:25:55 haha 15:26:22 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "special" people | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 15:26:47 hi 15:28:07 hi katla 15:28:09 hi katla 15:28:33 whats up 15:28:34 Bike: so i thought about the ai thing, and i seem to recall that once upon a time i used to call the stupid kind of ai stuff combinatorial optimization. perhaps seeing the arxiv feed every day has not been good for my brain. 15:28:45 the sun is up 15:30:01 5talk 15:30:09 btw google scholar updates are pretty magical, like 30% of its suggestions are interesting 15:30:16 katla: i'm up early (by my standards), waiting for someone to deliver a huge box 15:30:22 i will then load my possessions into that box 15:30:27 and they will ship it to california 15:30:31 cool 15:30:40 i mean interesting enough that i feel like i should read them 15:31:28 ooh i want a huge box too 15:32:18 packing and moving is a pain 15:32:25 but it's not too bad this time 15:32:26 oh that's what you're doing 15:32:34 i do not envy you anymore 15:32:50 last time i moved it was like 50 meters, and it still took almost a day 15:33:00 heh 15:33:10 in college we used shopping carts for that purpose 15:33:30 stolen from the local grocery 15:33:37 if you're really lazy you just park your shopping cart full of clothes and stuff in your new room and don't bother unpacking it 15:33:44 i didn't even have to go outside to move stuff from the old apartment to this one 15:33:51 it just becomes a piece of furniture like a dresser 15:34:12 in the weeks leading up to moving day, people would hoard shopping carts and stash them in secret locations 15:34:19 :D 15:34:42 i've always wanted a shopping cart but stores refuse to sell theirs and stealing is wrong or something 15:34:57 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:35:00 yeah 15:35:11 I only stole carts from the people who'd already stolen them 15:35:14 that makes me a good guy right 15:35:16 yes 15:35:24 unless they stole it from someone who stole it from a store 15:35:31 in which case you are an asshole 15:35:34 oh no 15:35:45 i'm going to have to move all my shit back from warwick in a couple of days 15:35:55 i am not looking forward to that 15:35:55 to where? 15:37:17 back to edinburgh 15:37:47 so today, me and my coauthor started our first article on cellular automata where our supervisor is also coauthoring 15:38:15 (i have something about picture languages with him, but we never did anything together before for some reason) 15:38:58 Phantom_Hoover: are you quitting university 15:39:08 no, i'm just moving out of halls 15:39:20 oh err what does that mean 15:39:31 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortiecat. 15:39:42 heh they're still going strong http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Bounded_gaps_between_primes 15:39:55 almost at 10000 now 15:40:26 oklopol, halls of residence are the on-campus accomodation you stay in for the first year 15:40:46 -!- nortiecat has changed nick to nortti. 15:41:40 oerjan: eventually it will turn out that the lowest you can go is 3, hth 15:41:51 O KAY 15:42:13 elliott, was that deliberate 15:42:18 (that's actually impossible) 15:42:31 Phantom_Hoover: i thought of the quip before i realised the problem. then i realised the problem quickly. then i decided it made the joke better 15:42:42 then i said it. 15:43:58 pardon my stupidity, but why is that not possible? 15:44:13 oh. 15:44:17 :D 15:44:28 oklopol: because there are only two primes that are 3 apart hth 15:44:45 which is the second... 15:44:48 oh 15:44:51 * Phantom_Hoover idiot 15:45:09 happens to the best of us 15:45:11 maybe the twin prime conjecture is independent and the lowest you can go in ZFC is 8294 15:45:33 it's incredible they have a finite bound 15:45:56 how would you even prove that 15:46:21 well the project started after someone found out how 15:48:06 oerjan: 12,006 is very good 15:53:39 the most recently published gap proof seems fun, it required a sufficiently large N, got an upper bound on that N, and manually checked every thing below it 15:54:06 hurrah for computer-assisted proofs 15:54:20 * oerjan looks at edinburgh in google maps, it seem to have a huge number of golf courses 15:54:45 *seems 15:54:54 oerjan: okay, wow, that's incredible 15:55:31 I just assumed there was a proof or two discovered; there's actually over a dozen improvements a day on some days 15:55:43 i keep thinking my solution to moving should be to not have stuff 15:55:50 but no matter how much stuff i get rid of I still have quite a lot 15:56:01 though I think still a lot less than people my age are expected to 15:56:17 -!- nortti has changed nick to __builtin_nortti. 15:56:19 kmc: you have more stuff than you think, especially when you put it in boxes 15:56:25 yep 15:56:30 Gracenotes: i think to improve on it now all they need to do is find a fairly small set of numbers which satisfies some decidable property or something? 15:56:39 or at least i remember reading something like that 15:56:44 so it's not surprising there's rapid iteration if so 15:57:12 do you understand the proof 15:57:15 of the original bound 15:57:46 -!- __builtin_nortti has changed nick to nortti. 15:57:46 * Gracenotes does not understand the math, or the theorem that makes the bound possible 15:57:50 anyone 15:58:03 i haven't tried 15:58:23 beyond what elliott said 15:58:43 number theory is too hard for me 15:59:35 I mean, we're computer scientists, the most we do with theoretically with numbers is represent them using unary 15:59:41 right.... right 15:59:56 (for those of us that are computer scientists) 16:00:54 oko and oerjan are both mathematicians... 16:01:54 dunno, nowadays i think of myself more as a mathematician wannabe, my papers have no integrals 16:02:05 not many at least 16:03:23 so btw cool perhaps-result from today: a size 2 neighborhood surjective CA on a prime alphabet is permutive in one of the coordinates 16:03:57 what's a prime alphabet? 16:04:01 (it's cool because no good characterization of surjectivity is known) 16:04:05 alphabet of prime size 16:04:58 acronym? 16:05:13 CA = cellular automata if that's what you mean 16:05:35 ah, I see, and size 2? 16:05:48 its neighborhood has size 2 16:06:00 the next state is based on looking at some 2 cells, relative to the current cell 16:07:03 oerjan: speaking of mathematicians, do you know much about permutations... 16:07:06 mm, I see :o 16:07:31 all cellular automata arise in this way, for some value of being the same as 16:07:34 elliott: well a bit... 16:10:38 oerjan: well the cardinality of the set of permutations of A is |A|^|A| = 2^|A| when A is infinite and so I'm wondering about the details of the bijection between bijections between A and A and functions from A to A this should give you... 16:11:45 oh i thought this would be about the symmetric groups 16:12:00 DISAPPOINTED 16:12:36 dont you have to use axiom of choice to go from |X| = |Y| to a bijection X -> Y? 16:12:41 oklopol: you can pretend I said the cardinality of the symmetric group of A if that would help 16:12:55 katla: no, that's the definition of |X| = |Y§ 16:13:01 surely it's easy to inject either in the other, and then just construct the solution with the axiom of constructable choice. 16:13:08 *|Y| 16:13:09 no, it doesn't use choice it uses excluded middle 16:13:21 I'm also wondering if the bijection is a natural isomorphism or whatever or if it depends on the details of A... 16:13:40 although _defining_ |X| may be awkward without choice 16:14:03 point is you dont have an explicit bijection you just know one exists 16:14:36 anyway, if you have injections, then i believe the proof of the schröder-bernstein theorem is quite constructive. 16:14:53 katla: i suppose 16:14:54 there is some way to label permutations of A by subsets of A but it's probably completely arbitrary 16:14:55 yeah, but then my awesome joke doesn't work 16:15:01 katla: yeah... I'm interested in seeing what such a bijection looks like "in practice" 16:15:05 like if A is just the naturals or whatever 16:15:26 i imagine it as acompletely random (since we dont know anythinnf about it) 16:15:27 katla: that may be, but i wouldn't say it's a priori clear 16:16:02 elliott: i suspect the bijection is hideously unnatural 16:16:13 yeah I realise it might not even be a computable bijection... 16:16:25 oh i expect it's computable 16:16:53 oerjan: maybe the other form, a bijection between bijections between A and A and functions from A to 2, is cleaner?? I don't really know what I'm doing... 16:17:05 i dont think its computable, how could it be? 16:17:15 you would need a constructive proof of its existence 16:17:26 hm well maybe it depends 16:18:04 oh maybe you need choice to prove the cardinalities are the same. 16:18:06 katla: well maybe for a specific A? 16:18:26 like even just seeing an (N <-> N) <-> (N -> N) would be interesting to me 16:18:30 it doesn't matter what A is as long as |A| = |N| 16:18:39 yeah 16:19:08 elliott: N -> N should be easy. an injection from N <-> N to N -> N is trivial, of course. 16:19:14 computable in what sense? like, for numerable A, you can compute the image of a \in A from knowing a long enough prefix of the characteristic sequence of the subset or something? 16:19:38 oerjan: just the identity you mean? 16:19:42 yeah 16:20:04 an injection the other way shouldn't be too hard. 16:20:26 and when you have those, the schröder-bernstein construction is constructive, as i said. 16:20:32 oklopol: well I mean in the sense of you can construct a Coq expression of type (bijection (bijection nat nat) (nat -> nat)) 16:20:34 from N -> N to N <-> N is very easy too, just permute adjacent pairs and encode the images of every number 16:20:57 sounds reasonable 16:20:58 like permu, permu, permu, no permu in the beginning would code that 1 goes to 3 16:21:08 or well, maybe not constructive, but explicitly definable 16:21:37 hmm, is the reduced form actually (N -> 2) when you're doing it constructively or is it (N -> Prop)...? I know "powersets" are usually defined as the latter 16:22:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:24:02 of course i don't really have a clue about real constructiveness hth 16:24:22 I need a faker mathematician :( 16:24:38 maybe oklopol, I bet people call him a computer scientist all the time 16:24:45 XD 16:25:27 i suspect schröder-bernstein might use the excluded middle at least 16:25:38 I pretend to be a mathematician sometimes 16:25:39 they do :( 16:25:42 Can I be of service? 16:25:45 elliott: my feeling is it's (N->Prop) ... (N->2) is "decidable subsets" or something like that 16:26:26 mnoqy: right but (N -> Prop) -> (N <-> N) sounds really unlikely to be non-trivial without excluded middle... (N -> 2) -> (N <-> N) much less so 16:26:32 the other day this dude who does all the practical computer stuff was like "so oklopol i bet you run virtual oses all the time" and i was like omg that sounds scary and just kinda disappeared 16:26:44 so my hunch tells me that either the reduction to 2^|A| doesn't work constructively or it's actually 2 16:27:10 oerjan: yeah An important feature of this theorem is that it does not rely on the axiom of choice. However, its various proofs are non-constructive, as they depend on the law of excluded middle, and therefore rejected by intuitionists.[1] 16:27:21 ok 16:28:18 o-oh 16:30:57 elliott: yeah for the proof given, presumably you need LEM to determine whether it's A/B-stopper or doubly infinite 16:31:02 the same guy (at work btw, seems i forgot that detail) always catcher me in the hallway and starts talking about his latest problems with installing stuff and i don't understand anything and just nod politely 16:31:12 oh, or cyclic. 16:31:48 is this the fun vertex matching proof 16:32:18 well there's a graph there, so probably 16:32:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schröder-Bernstein_theorem#Visualization 16:32:41 hm maybe you can do (N -> 2) <-> (N <-> N) by taking the 2 to mean "displaced" or something... 16:32:48 that seems to be the only one that's possible to remember 16:32:51 * elliott starting the day with quackery 16:33:09 yeah that thingie 16:36:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myhill_isomorphism_theorem 16:37:01 was this mentioned already 16:38:18 nope 16:38:35 sounds related 16:38:41 yeah 16:38:48 anyway 16:38:51 bye 16:38:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: CU). 16:39:45 how did oklopol know oerjan was going to leave 16:39:58 by the magic of reading 16:40:26 reading... or conspiracy 16:40:34 yeah 16:40:38 :O 16:40:43 shiiiit 16:41:06 you totally caught me 16:41:28 i love the blinking text 16:42:05 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 16:50:31 how do you do it in irsi 16:50:40 irssissippi 16:50:48 ^F 16:51:06 hallo 16:51:36 im thankfully not seeing it 16:51:41 Moo? 16:51:51 I am not either 16:52:04 Probably using the wrong terminal or something 16:52:05 Is this suppose to show up as something other than a unsupported-Unicode-character box? 16:52:13 @messages 16:54:46 Gregor: it blinks in irssi 16:55:02 welp 16:55:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:00:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:00:58 well this is annoying 17:01:03 i've successfully annoyed myself 17:01:06 thanks a lot Bike 17:03:05 np 17:04:56 my moving pod is here 17:05:02 time to climb in 17:05:07 and wait 17:05:17 could probably rent it for $800/mo in sf 17:05:29 elliott: i have a friend who would do that 17:05:38 bet people do it all the time 17:05:40 he would hide in your clothes hamper for 3 hours just so he could jump out and scare the shit out of you 17:06:14 it's sort of like being a sniper 17:06:26 I think every time someone scares me like that I lose a few years of life 17:08:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:14:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:14:30 Every time someone scares me like that, the flashbacks kick in and I kill them. 17:14:44 So, THEY use a few years of THEIR life. 17:17:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:18:08 http://www.hexhamcourant.co.uk/news/breaking-news-dead-man-found-in-hexham-burn-1.1065270?referrerPath=home 17:19:05 Things happen in Hexham, apparently 17:22:18 @wn courant 17:22:20 No match for "courant". 17:22:33 is this like some crazy british spelling of "current" 17:23:22 the hexham currant 17:23:47 dead in a burn? 17:24:35 mnoqy, burn also can mean stream sometimes 17:24:52 you crazy brits 17:27:47 Yeah, it took me a while to realize that "burn" was not the verb. 17:28:04 I was thinking, "they found a burnt husk of a corpse?" 17:28:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:32:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:34:07 -!- Bike has joined. 17:50:32 -!- samebchase has left. 17:57:48 hexham voultage 18:00:56 i thought burn was scots 18:01:02 i guess hexham is basically in scotland 18:01:41 Phantom_Hoover, Northumbrian dialect bears much similarity to Scots in places 18:03:19 -!- jsvine has joined. 18:04:14 -!- hiato has joined. 18:19:24 -!- conehead has joined. 18:28:09 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:35:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:37:27 Oh no I am still reliant on a website that will be discontinued in less than a week 18:43:30 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 18:43:40 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:43:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No buffer space available). 18:43:51 -!- augur has joined. 18:46:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:46:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:48:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:49:40 Taneb, google reader (i thought that was already down) 18:49:49 Yeah 18:49:53 It goes down on the 1st of July 18:50:27 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:09:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:09:47 -!- carado has joined. 19:09:56 -!- Bike has joined. 19:13:19 so apparently Scala doesn't have parametricity. I blame copumpkin for making me discover this. 19:14:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:14:54 is that because the supertype shared by all objects contains enough rope to break it? 19:15:20 it seems to just literally give you typecase 19:15:21 def const3[A](a: A, a2: A): A = (a, a2) match { 19:15:21 case (s: Int, s2: Int) => if (s < s2) a else a2 19:15:21 case _ => a 19:15:21 } 19:15:25 http://failex.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/fake-theorems-for-free.html 19:15:38 very nasty 19:15:53 Hmm 19:15:55 I guess they figure, Java lets you do it, so there's no point hiding it because Java APIs will already break parametricity 19:16:09 Could subtyping work in a Haskell-like language? 19:16:38 yes but it's ugly (Scala has subtyping) 19:17:14 Like, data Foo = Foo {a :: Int, b :: Char}; data Bar extends Foo with {c :: Bool} 19:17:20 Would that work? 19:17:36 yes but it's ugly 19:18:28 elliott is prejudiced against subtyping 19:18:45 a subtypist 19:19:09 You would be able to use Bar with functions that are (Foo -> a) but not (a -> Foo) 19:21:02 In away, all types are subtypes of () 19:21:17 I am going to call that the "trivial supertype" 19:22:04 not Void, huh 19:22:22 Bike, I think Void is sort of a subtype of every type 19:22:34 I shall call that the "trivial subtype" 19:22:46 The type () is what is called a final object; does that have anything to do with it? 19:22:46 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:22:47 wow this is so exciting huh elliott 19:23:00 zzo38, I think so! 19:23:03 hello Bike 19:23:14 helliott. 19:24:46 -!- carado has joined. 19:24:47 This subtyping thing becomes ugly when combined with polymorphic types 19:24:55 :( 19:26:53 Do you need two extending, one for addition and one for multiplication? 19:27:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:27:36 zzo38, I haven't thought about addition 19:28:02 Taneb: have you considered lens-subtyping vs. prism-subtyping hth 19:28:31 With multiplication you get Bar->Foo and if you define Bar with addition then you will have Foo->Bar instead, I think, isn't it? 19:28:42 zzo38, I think with sum types the subtyping would sort of be the other way rou --- yeah 19:30:01 No, the subtyping is still in the same direction. 19:30:10 It's just that the function that you have is different. 19:30:17 Or maybe you mean the same thing I mean. 19:30:19 shachaf: That is what I meant. 19:30:41 I meant Bar->Foo and Foo->Bar are the types of the functions that it would make. 19:30:42 shachaf, with product types the larger definition is the subtype, with sum types the smaller one is 19:31:36 This gets messy when you have more complicated types 19:31:41 I shall now stop thinking about it 19:31:43 It's not about cardinality, exactly. 19:31:47 hey no don't do that 19:31:48 help 19:32:41 taneb is my hero 19:33:37 whats this about subtyping 19:33:55 I did write a Haskell program that will allow various modules that know a module defining a record type to each add fields without knowing each other, and the first module doesn't have to know about them either. 19:34:57 However, you need to define a way to make default values of each fields, so that a value of such a type can be constructed. It is possible for the default value to depend on something, and whatever defines the record type also defines what type is needed to make up the default values. 19:36:27 It could be used as another way to make global variables, instead of using unsafePerformIO and NOINLINE. 19:36:28 zzo38: hey you know that haskell program that gave different output depending on which language extensions were enabled? 19:36:31 do you still have that? 19:37:07 elliott: Yes I do have that. 19:37:19 is it available over HTTP? 19:37:36 Yes. http://sprunge.us/edTV 19:37:53 well. 19:37:59 thanks! may I share it with someone I know? do you want attribution? 19:38:36 You can share it if you want, modify it if you want, give attribution if you want (it isn't required), etc 19:39:20 thank you 19:39:28 nicecode zzo38 19:39:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:40:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:40:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:59:06 it's too god damn motherfucking hot 20:05:11 @google boston weather 20:05:12 No Result Found. 20:05:15 help 20:06:06 ~metar EGNT 20:06:18 METASEPIA 20:08:24 it's going to hit 97°F / 36°C today 20:08:32 :O 20:09:38 @temperature kmc 20:09:38 Unknown command, try @list 20:09:42 oh you said 20:09:43 imo move to sf 20:09:46 that is very hot 20:09:55 "it's the only way" 20:10:32 shachaf, remind me 20:10:43 How many people in this channel other than you live in San Francisco 20:10:52 I don't live in San Francisco. 20:11:03 That is not what I asked 20:11:21 It's what I /implied/, yes, but not what I asked 20:11:29 Taneb: You should change your person-addressing character to use a colon instead of a comma. 20:11:43 shachaf, I did for a while, but it felt wrong 20:11:44 how come 20:12:00 , is the devil. 20:12:12 It feels like part of a sentence instead of part of a protocol. 20:13:27 why should it be a protocol 20:13:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:13:56 that's what it is 20:14:09 Certainly I don't want people saying my name in every sentence. 20:14:20 No, when I say, eg, "shachaf, hi!", in my head I am saying your name 20:14:43 but are you pronouncing the ch correctly 20:14:44 it's the nominative! 20:14:46 OK, then it's just rude. 20:15:09 Phantom_Hoover, what would the vocative be? 20:15:15 fuck 20:15:19 did i mean the vocative 20:15:30 fuck, how are you? 20:15:36 romanos eunt domus 20:20:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:23:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:24:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:37:23 19:59:06: it's too god damn motherfucking hot 20:37:23 20:05:11: @google boston weather 20:37:36 yeah, that's how it was the one time i was in boston too 20:37:50 what time of year 20:37:50 yep. 20:38:24 kmc: around 4th of july 20:38:29 ok 20:38:34 (we watched the fireworks) 20:39:10 Last time I watched fireworks it was my birthday 20:39:47 `pastelogs taneb.*birthday 20:39:53 * oerjan whistles innocently 20:40:00 oerjan, 3rd of November 20:40:16 oh. why are there fireworks then 20:40:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19940 20:40:33 Closest Saturday to Guy Fawkes? 20:40:38 ah 20:40:38 2 days early 20:40:42 efb 20:41:20 ... 20:41:23 `? efb 20:41:24 efb? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:41:25 | 20:41:25 o/`¯º 20:41:30 hahaha 20:41:41 endorphins for barter 20:41:51 it's a drugz thing 20:41:51 `? myndzi 20:41:53 myndzi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:41:53 | 20:41:53 o/`¯º 20:41:55 electric flying bananas? 20:42:09 `learn myndzi keeps us all on our feet 20:42:13 I knew that. 20:44:36 "edit: fuck, beaten" 20:45:47 is that a sommethingawful thing? 20:47:07 it's an internet thing 20:47:18 maybe originating from SA (like so many internet things) 20:47:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:56:13 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:58:10 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:05:33 if anyone is interested i am streaming the masterpiece of game design "dot action 2" http://www.twitch.tv/neostairs 21:05:52 stairs 2: revenge of escalator 21:07:24 wow what the heck is this 21:08:31 dot action 2 21:08:44 elliott you have to jump all the way to the top come on man. 21:08:48 i know 21:08:49 i'm sorry 21:08:51 i'm so sorry 21:09:07 u fucked up 21:09:25 what's with all the japanese 21:09:25 this looks so horribly unfun 21:09:25 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:09:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:09:52 is it encoded in ascii somehow? i'm wondering if zzo made this 21:10:42 what the hell do all these numbers mean................ 21:10:54 ZET lets you walk through lava 21:10:59 oh 21:11:01 ok 21:11:01 katla: it's the greatest game ever made actually 21:11:34 wow that was a "pretty intense jump" good job 21:11:52 that jump? not so intense 21:12:11 yeah you need to rev up the intensity there, imo. 21:13:36 good death animation 21:14:01 whats great about it 21:14:47 the circus music 21:14:48 it's beautiful 21:14:56 possibly it's a Dogma thing 21:15:00 also in like 40 levels it stops bothering to make sense 21:15:08 cant wait 2 see 21:15:15 i forget how far i got in that game 21:15:29 is this like. why are you doing this 21:15:42 yes 21:15:58 oh 21:16:07 you're just addicted to the beep sound 21:16:54 oh i think i remember this level 21:17:07 what time units are being used exactly 21:17:13 TIME 21:17:34 right 21:17:37 katla: it's true 21:19:18 how can you bare playing this 21:19:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:19:57 i think it's a ritualistic thing 21:20:09 I was hoping it was actually an AI he wrote for the purpose 21:21:56 it seems like you could write an AI to play this game 21:22:01 but it would take a lot of effort 21:22:17 better just to get some chump to play it for you 21:22:59 i guess this game is what you get if you remove everything good from super metroid then try to make a game out of whats left 21:23:21 wow i already hate this level. 21:23:23 http://www.theonion.com/articles/register-number-one,32928/ 21:23:36 katla: "this is N for people who don't like fun" 21:23:45 hehe 21:25:10 `addquote i guess this game is what you get if you remove everything good from super metroid then try to make a game out of whats left 21:25:14 1061) i guess this game is what you get if you remove everything good from super metroid then try to make a game out of whats left 21:25:47 the fact that it goes black when you talk on irc is scary since it implies that you're actually playing 21:26:41 elliott explained it elsewhere actually: this is just a youtube let's play and it goes black when he's switching to the next video 21:26:46 nobody played this gaem 21:26:56 ***Game 21:27:01 ok phew. 21:27:27 so uh. why are you streaming a let's play 21:28:16 mnoqy forgot to mention i was joking 21:28:31 shut up don't ruin my dream. 21:28:48 im going to do this next level without sound to show how hardcore i am. 21:29:18 whats ZET 21:29:36 lava immunity 21:29:46 lava being the beige orange dots 21:29:54 ok i hate this level. 21:29:57 Bike: i'm glad you recognise they're lava 21:30:00 some people think they're electricity 21:30:02 but they're so wrong?? 21:30:18 confession: i only know because monqy said so 21:30:28 oops 21:30:34 i knew it was lava without anyone telling me 21:30:40 katla > bike, imo 21:30:53 hey. hey there's sound!! 21:32:21 what 21:32:21 im glad for this stage 21:32:25 how have you been watching it without sound 21:32:45 no i've been watching it w/ sound 21:32:45 the sound is the only good thing about it 21:32:49 but you said you were turning it off! 21:32:55 elliott: probably in reference to 14:28:49 im going to do this next level without sound to show how hardcore i am. 21:33:10 oh i just muted it on my computer 21:33:45 i think this level is the worst. 21:34:05 ha ha ha ha ha 21:34:15 prepare 21:34:19 hey nooodl did you beat dot action 2 21:34:20 Like at least seven worst 21:34:27 what i dont understand is why you'd even want to complete this level 21:34:36 no i got to stage 50ish and i'm on "post traumatic stress hiatus" 21:35:10 katla: some people walk on coals. some people go to the dentist. some people play Dot Action Two 21:38:08 i can't even fail at this level in a good way 21:38:09 basically elliott is a flagellant. 21:38:11 only embarrassing ways 21:39:57 elliott: You have to jump between the tall things. 21:40:03 yes. 21:40:05 i'm aware. 21:40:25 Make sure you aim your jumps so that from each tall thing you land onto the next tall thing. 21:41:28 Don't touch the lava things. Really you shouldn't be anywhere near the lava on your return trip, it's way below where you should be (which is: on top of the tall things, or between them, in the midst of jumping between the tall things) 21:43:13 WHY 21:43:26 This level is at least nine bad. 21:43:29 IMO. 21:45:04 oh 21:45:12 the jumps are blind 21:45:27 god bless america 21:45:36 yeah it would be easy if you could see where you were jumping 21:45:43 what is bike playing 21:45:54 The give elliott helpful advice game 21:46:17 elliott 21:46:18 no 21:46:44 you're playing a trial-and-error platformer 21:47:04 you understand. 21:47:06 you should know better 21:47:17 elliott knows nothing. 21:47:20 are you watching 21:47:23 he's enlightened. 21:47:38 did you learn nothing from the support group! 21:47:52 @ask sgeo i have a BYOND-related question for you. i know. i'm sorry world 21:47:52 Consider it noted. 21:47:55 (also: are you using OSX???) 21:48:10 he's using Haiku with reskinned windows 21:48:48 arch just wasn't obscure enough i guess 21:49:20 Bike: do you really 21:49:21 i dont want to watch any more of this horrid game 21:49:36 it's like a cat rubbing sandpaper on my eardrums 21:49:49 elliott: i'm sorry................................. 21:49:58 what is BYOND 21:50:06 katla: neither does anybody else. we're trapped 21:50:06 some thing sgeo likes 21:50:24 uh oh... this is 21:50:30 wow 21:51:15 thislevel is the worst ye 21:51:15 t 21:51:23 it's like VVVVVV 21:51:25 except not fun 21:51:52 technically the gravity direction never changes 21:51:56 everything else does! 21:52:07 Bike: isn't BYOND the thing used for space station 13? 21:52:16 yeah that's why im asking 21:52:42 since i'm thinking about playing it but if it's a web client that would be nice and convenient. 21:52:49 wow nicely done 21:52:55 yessss first time!!! 21:53:05 good level 21:53:18 what happened 21:53:22 he won 21:53:22 everything else does! 21:53:23 the level 21:53:31 there was an option for this in VVVVVV! 21:53:52 no elliott 21:53:54 you can't stop now 21:53:59 i don't stop 21:54:19 omh 21:54:30 this level's at least twelve worst for sure 21:54:31 omz 21:54:32 look at this shit 21:54:34 definitely 12 21:54:40 no 21:54:43 this is like 23 worst 21:54:44 at least 21:55:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:55:23 ok i'm ready to reveal the secret 21:55:26 i already know how to do this level 21:55:34 i just wanted to give you all the experience of doing it spoiler-free 21:55:36 :o!!! 21:55:43 i warn you 21:55:47 it's pretty bullshit 21:55:53 so's the game 21:56:08 -!- sacje has joined. 21:56:11 you just hold down right 21:56:21 Phantom_Hoover: see, that's why it's 12. 21:56:28 well, i'll bump it up to 13 for being misleading. 21:56:32 take note elliott 21:58:32 oh 21:58:39 that's maybe 3 worst then 21:59:01 the timer 21:59:07 this one's like 10 worst 21:59:22 horrible 22:01:46 "wow i hate this game and i'm not even playing it" 22:01:51 it took me far too long to mute the stream 22:01:58 "this guy is more of a masochist than i am" 22:02:54 how much of a masochist are you 22:02:59 back to work 22:03:16 do the jumps 22:05:23 what have i done to deserve this 22:05:43 you made me read about functors being boxes that one time. 22:05:58 functor? i hardly know 'er! 22:06:01 * kmc will see himself out. 22:06:49 must stay calm 22:07:28 did you know that there's literally a time out on pausing 22:07:31 it doesnt' let you pause too often 22:08:01 ok 5min break 22:08:03 nice 22:08:13 congrats!! 22:10:05 elliott, but it gives you infinite restarts 22:10:07 doesn't it 22:10:10 doesn't it.......... 22:10:29 http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-130617-obama-putin-meeting.photoblog900.jpg 22:11:43 Phantom_Hoover: it does 22:12:02 kmc, read that as 'obama put in meeting' 22:12:23 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:13:52 im back 22:14:02 Phantom_Hoover: yes 22:15:03 are not splaying 22:15:10 i see only black 22:15:33 some of my viewers are mutinying 22:15:59 I have used templates having lines line {{Template:{{{1}}}|num=0|name=NROM|disc=Discrete|who=Nintendo|prgrom=32768}} in some MediaWiki but does Wikipedia or Esolang wiki uses it or anything else you have done anything like this? 22:16:02 i don't see 22:16:03 anything 22:16:16 yeah there's nothing playing. 22:19:27 this is: unacceptable 22:19:40 * Bike crosses arms, nods 22:21:00 elliott: i'm disappointed 22:22:02 happy now??? 22:22:07 did you 22:22:10 make that yourself 22:22:15 yes 22:22:23 the alternative, see 22:22:24 omg good 22:22:26 very good 22:22:28 fantastic 22:22:32 zzo38: what's interesting about templates like that 22:22:33 it's so good 22:22:42 is that you found a banner with 'intemrisision' written on it 22:22:48 and i don't know which is stupider 22:23:03 i'm using $500 broadcasting software 22:23:06 it lets me do great things like this 22:23:42 kmc: Look at http://ifwiki.org/index.php/List_of_Z-machine_interpreters to see how it can be used. 22:24:28 looks pretty nice zzo38 22:25:28 Wikipedia has a lot of those sorts of tables but I don't know what kind of templates they us 22:25:31 e 22:26:01 how does Z-machine piracy check work 22:26:13 behold 22:26:30 kmc: It is unspecified. 22:26:39 zzo38: How can it be implemented, then? 22:26:57 My own interpreter just uses a command-line parameter to decide whether it is genuine or not. 22:27:02 oh god it's back help 22:27:15 (Also, no existing Z-machine games even use that anyways.) 22:27:19 zzo38: so this is like the Evil Bit in IP then 22:27:58 this level is 5,000,000 bad 22:27:59 fyi 22:28:07 (Fweep does it by if you specified -p switch then it assumes it is pirated and if you don't specify -p then it assumes it is genuine.) 22:28:10 which level `i wasn't watching' 22:28:12 i don't know the bad->worst unit conversion. 22:28:13 this level 22:28:14 are you ready 22:28:17 I'm ready. 22:28:19 this is 30 worst 22:28:20 i'm NOT joking 22:28:22 im redy 22:28:39 im not ready 22:28:48 kmc: I suppose it might be something like that. 22:28:59 wow this level is a lot easier than it was when nooodl did it 22:29:02 500 worst 22:29:02 i see your point. 22:30:51 i like how with every retry you get ever further from success 22:30:52 The only Z-machine program I know that even uses the piracy check is CZECH, which is used to test if the Z-machine interpreter is working properly. Fweep passes 100%, unless -p is specified in which case it fails that test but still continues running; it just logs the failure and then reports at the end that one test failed. 22:31:43 adjsfojortgfdvcoij m 22:32:59 i don't think you're going to get past this level this side of heat death 22:33:25 whyyy 22:33:38 intermeseinos 22:35:40 It is recommended that an interpreter assume the game disc is genuine by default, and my interpreters do this too. No games use it; nevertheless, you could write a game that uses it in order to shorten the game if the game disc is pirated; you could use this to make a short demo version using the same story file, in case some players want to play the short version, or if you are providing it on a telnet server and want to sell the full version. 22:37:30 i should move to sf in a cube like kmc instead of doing this 22:38:08 cube action 2 22:38:39 yes 22:39:06 it's like cube action 2 but 3d. 22:39:15 cube action 2 is very like cube action 2, yes 22:39:15 did you warp the intermissions picture 22:39:23 when the guy dropped it off today he said "think tetris" 22:39:25 true story 22:39:39 kmc: what's this story about 22:40:41 Bike: yes 22:41:40 it's about my cube 22:41:54 is that a euphemism 22:42:54 katla: you were so right 22:43:06 about what 22:43:11 it's been 24 minutes 22:43:16 Unbelievable 22:43:17 dot action 2 22:44:02 imo play more so it takes less time 22:44:24 this is the run 22:44:32 preparing myself, mentally and physically 22:44:59 i'm imagining a montage of elliott doing push ups 22:45:12 just let out the most ungodly noise 22:45:35 transcribe it for us (ps we really need mic commentary) 22:45:35 elliott pushup montage 22:45:49 don't make fun of me kmc 22:46:37 auguhhh 22:46:37 i like how the first attempt went really well 22:46:43 i know exactly how elliott feels now...... 22:47:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:41 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:42 hmm 22:50:58 i want to link to the turkish star wars training montage but i don't know how to make it relevnat 22:51:00 *relevant 22:51:10 turkish star wars is the best 22:51:22 i don't even remember that montage and yet I know it's the best 22:52:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saOSPjm8cX0 22:52:48 (there's another version but it is inferior!) 22:53:06 (it has push it to the limit in place of the original soundtrack and the quality isn't as shitty) 22:56:36 nooodl: did you ever work out time <-> seconds 22:56:54 it's a frame thing presumably? 22:57:14 hmm no 22:57:22 i estimate it's about 1/3 second = 1 time 22:57:34 or 1/4 ratehr 22:59:20 what was the trick for the last part again... 22:59:25 there's no trick :-) 22:59:33 the trick is suffering hth 22:59:34 well what are you supposed to even do, I've forgotten 23:00:05 jump from the very edge of the thing 23:00:18 right but the water... 23:01:05 i just see itnemrisision 23:01:50 yes 23:01:52 i'm preparing 23:02:24 the push-ups thing was a joke elliott! 23:02:29 btw i don't think it's even possible 23:02:32 if you pause this long 23:02:35 you have to be in the flow 23:02:51 now you're gonna unpause and it'll be like Whoa 23:02:56 and you'll mess it up 23:02:56 In BlogNomic, currently you can get points by coming up with a theorem that you can prove, but nobody else can prove. 23:03:17 So I took two huge prime numbers, multiplied them together, posted the result, and asserted that that number is composite. 23:03:30 eh 23:04:02 you don't have to publicize your proof? 23:04:17 that would defeat the point wouldn't it 23:04:18 You do, but once you do, nobody else can submit a proof. 23:04:40 Also, you have to wait 48 hours before submitting a proof. 23:04:52 something something zero-knowledge 23:05:04 Aren't there primality tests though? 23:05:09 someone could run a primality test on it and show that it's not prime 23:05:23 Fiora: true, but nobody has done that. 23:05:28 well, the idea is that modern encryption algorithms are based on multiplying huge primes isn't it? 23:05:34 or whatever. 23:05:50 and factoring the result is difficult 23:05:54 you can tell a number isn't prime without actually finding its factors i guess 23:06:14 Well, the idea is that the product of two really big prime numbers is hard to factor. 23:06:20 also I think all the efficient primality tests are probabilistic? 23:06:21 -!- carado has quit (Read error: No route to host). 23:06:24 The fact that this fact is used in encryption is just sort of a side effect. 23:06:35 hthere's a fast algorithm to check if a numberis prime 23:06:40 withouut factoring 23:06:57 elliott: I think that all of the common primality tests can tell you with certainty that a number is composite. 23:07:07 -!- carado has joined. 23:07:14 yeah AKS is assured 23:07:24 it's factoring that's hard 23:07:41 Like, if the number is prime, it's guaranteed to say "the number may be prime", but if it's composite, there's a 25% chance it says "the number may be prime" and a 75% chance it says "the number is definitely composite". 23:07:43 PRIMES is in P maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan 23:14:37 http://www.javascripter.net/math/primes/millerrabinprimalitytest.htm says it's composite~~ 23:15:39 what do those ~s even mean 23:15:47 javascript seems like... not the ideal thing to do heavy arithmetic with 23:15:49 are you saying "" in a really sarcastic tone 23:16:30 they mean like tildes 23:16:31 hth. 23:17:02 Someone told me what they mean once. 23:17:13 I think they indicate some certain thing. 23:17:31 Like, something related to something, or whatever. Like, when the one thing happens, then you use ~~ to indicate that. 23:17:57 Except that, like, it's not really a thing that happens; it's really, like, the sort of thing that *could* happen, if the people were talking face to face. 23:18:05 what 23:18:19 So, you know, like, when, uh... yeah, that. 23:19:05 are you high 23:19:20 It is very unlikely. 23:19:41 In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's extremely unlikely. Or maybe not, depending on how you define "high". 23:21:20 omg 24 time 23:21:21 luxury 23:21:33 good 23:22:40 RIP 23:22:58 remember when i did exactly that and i had it 3-4 tries later though! 23:24:42 Oh wow, the miller rabin primalitytest takes a long time if it's a probable prime 23:25:02 hmm 23:25:11 35844088534668175608533550469325416140711880836358433520741183341559409752958417564900205152763659819317338304041228758958269744936094178001500112469790418773135543301899194065881801585777676220908369 tswett: yours isn't prime but this one is, I think! 23:25:17 what happens if you try and do cryptography with something that looks prime 23:25:54 did tswett actually say the number? 23:25:56 * elliott didn't see it 23:26:02 where is tswett's number 23:26:03 elliott: I guess I didn't. 23:26:09 Here it is, with muchos espacios: 23:26:16 35 844 088 534 668 175 608 533 550 469 325 416 140 711 880 836 358 433 520 741 183 341 559 409 752 958 417 564 900 205 152 763 659 819 317 338 304 041 228 758 958 269 744 936 094 178 001 500 112 469 790 418 773 135 543 301 899 194 065 881 801 585 777 676 220 908 841 23:26:36 " FFT-based multiplication can push the running time down to O(k log2n log log n log log log n)" logs are officically the worst 23:26:36 I know what you're thinking. That's not a number, that's sixty-seven numbers! 23:26:37 nice spaces 23:27:01 that's log² n, i gues 23:27:05 i really don't understand how algorithms end up being O(log log n) 23:27:08 tswett, you could just ask them to prove that the digit sum of the factors is 23:27:15 Bike: what's k here? 23:27:33 Phantom_Hoover: or that it has a factor in a certain specific range. 23:27:48 "The number of different values of a that we test" 23:27:53 nooodl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_rabin#Algorithm_and_running_time behold. 23:28:06 Bike, what's your BYOND-related question? 23:28:24 Bring your own nondeterminism? 23:28:37 Sgeo: already rendered irrelevant 23:28:49 tswett: the deterministic version is down the page a bit. it sucks 23:28:52 no, Sgeo likes it so it's probably nostalgic in some capacity 23:29:19 I was going to ask if I needed to download anything to play space station 13 23:29:22 the answer is apparently yes. 23:29:29 The BYOND client 23:29:40 Called "Dream Seeker" 23:29:59 All resources for the game itself should be automatically downloaded by the client when you connect 23:30:03 i'm reading the blognomic post. what's this whole list nonsense 23:30:11 did you obfuscate it for "fun".... 23:30:16 An HTML5 BYOND client would be cool 23:30:29 Although would presumably need a proxy 23:32:51 how long have you been playing this elliott 23:33:34 this level: one hour with breaks hth 23:44:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:44:19 fuck this, i'm watching apocalypse now 23:44:40 good movie imo 23:45:26 are you watching the 3½ hour extended edition 23:45:32 i haven't seen that 23:46:18 I hear the making-of documentary _Hearts of Darkness_ is also very good 23:46:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:46:48 -!- Bike has joined. 23:47:04 Sgeo: is the linux byond client functional 23:49:09 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 23:49:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:50:16 kmc, i don't think i am 23:50:19 i hope i'm not 23:50:40 you should imo 23:50:46 i... am not going to finish this tonight though 23:54:37 welp, i'm torrenting it instead 23:55:03 kmc, can apocalypse now in any way be compared to elliott's dot action 2 travails 23:55:45 i cannot say 23:57:30 apocalypse now has a better soundtrack 23:57:39 it has a v. good soundtrack 2013-06-25: 00:02:32 Sgeo_: does the byond on linux work, also why does SS13 say windows only help 00:07:10 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:09:01 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:09:20 congratulation elliott 00:10:17 i bet armikrog will have a v. good soundtrack if it manages to get >$200,000 in the next 63 hours 00:11:44 maybe you'd be better off doing that in #moremoneythansense 00:11:51 is that a r. channel 00:12:04 d. w. j. u. a. n.? 00:12:15 ꙮ. 00:12:28 ꙭ. 00:13:02 Ꙭ. 00:13:27 ꙭ + ꙭ + ꙭ + ꙩ = ꙮ 00:14:22 multiocular O doesn't have majiscule and miniscule versions? 00:14:29 majuscule* 00:14:51 can there be a multiocular o that isn't majuscule 00:14:53 Bike, a non-graphical version works on Linux 00:14:55 i don't know 00:15:17 So in theory you can play if you don't mind just letters, I _think_. Also depends how well the game supports that mode 00:15:40 I don't mind just letters, but the unjust ones (like w) are a problem. 00:15:53 what the hell is the point of that. 00:16:27 I could be misremembering 00:16:48 But anyway, if a game doesn't support it, I think the letters default to being based off internal names of the types 00:16:59 e.g. /turf/grass might show up as g 00:17:00 iirc 00:17:26 This could all be obsolete, incidentally 00:17:33 WINE is probably a better bet 00:18:15 Although there's a builtin HTML renderer, I don't know if that uses IE rendering engine internally 00:19:13 ueueugh there goes any hope of playing it 00:19:30 WINE doesn't have a mock IE layout engine? 00:19:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:20:39 no, wine won't work for me. 00:22:11 Oh :( 00:24:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 00:45:00 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 00:51:18 kmc: today i saw a laptop with a screen on the lid 00:51:26 imo what's going on with that 00:51:38 weird 00:51:39 what did it do 00:52:07 it showed things 00:52:08 mostly pixels 00:52:27 i think it was this: http://www.asus.com/vivo/en/taichi.htm 00:53:05 fun 00:53:47 also i saw windows 8 "more like weirdos 8" 00:53:51 the joke is that it's weird 00:54:34 reminds me of windows 3.11 00:57:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:59:45 -!- augur has joined. 00:59:58 area man not in fact an idiot 01:00:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:45 -!- augur has joined. 01:05:10 lol 01:05:16 Area Man Still Has Voice 01:06:19 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.). 01:07:04 Do you ever get the feeling that sometimes The Onion's goal is to trick people into thinking that it's real, rather than to poke fun at stuff? 01:07:10 At least some articles seem like that 01:07:54 http://www.theonion.com/articles/markets-in-turmoil-as-price-of-money-skyrockets-to,32939/ This one was great, I think 01:25:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:43 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:35:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:44:30 The trouble with Rust is that half the code you find is so outdated that it's a syntax error. 01:45:39 is that better or worse than Haskell, where half the code you find is an import or type error 01:46:56 yes 01:47:01 hth 01:47:20 how do i manage to use int::range :'( 01:48:18 ask future kmc 01:48:24 he'll be a rust expert!! 01:49:16 can future kmc be a time machine expert instead 01:50:03 would prefer both 02:13:23 -!- augur has joined. 02:15:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:19:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:26:47 kmc: someone on #haskell mentioned the idea of doing a simple-as-possible translation of core/stg/cmm/whatever to lua 02:26:50 so you can luajit it 02:26:53 yes 02:26:57 do that, report back w/ findings 02:27:06 asm.lua 02:27:24 I was hoping you would do it so I wouldn't have to :( 02:27:30 don't want to 02:27:48 harsh 02:27:53 but fair 02:28:11 kmc: p. sure you'll find that anything that involves elliott doing more work is unfair 02:28:25 kmc: <#haskell person> imageine 02:28:39 parse error 02:28:56 i've always wanted tail calls in html. 02:31:05 -!- surma_ has joined. 02:32:25 -!- surma has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:32:26 -!- surma_ has quit (Changing host). 02:32:26 -!- surma_ has joined. 02:33:17 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:33:21 -!- surma_ has changed nick to surma. 02:34:10 -!- RainbowUnicorn has joined. 02:34:35 "The channel for "special" people |" 02:34:41 define "special" 02:34:47 you define it 02:34:53 spec anal 02:34:59 `relcome RainbowUnicorn 02:35:00 ;_; 02:35:03 ​RainbowUnicorn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:35:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 274 seconds). 02:36:53 oh i see 02:37:04 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:37:08 does anyone here know brainfuck? 02:37:16 many of us 02:37:20 everybody here knows brainfuck. 02:37:23 o.O 02:37:30 wow 02:37:33 is it hard? 02:37:39 i was looking at it 02:37:41 not that hard compared to many esoteric languages 02:37:50 yeah it's pretty easy to learn. 02:37:57 ok cool 02:37:58 brainfuck isn't really designed to be difficult, so much as designed to be very simple and have a simple compiler 02:37:58 !bf_txtgen !bf_txtgen 02:38:02 ​109 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>-.++++.>----.+++++++++++++++++++++.++++.----.<+.--.>------.>-. [344] 02:38:20 ..? 02:38:21 I can't actually write programs that do useful things in brainfuck 02:38:25 !bfjoust !bf_txtgen 02:38:25 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 02:38:29 oh, you can't do that. 02:38:31 or useless things. truly, I am a fraud 02:38:33 it's difficult because there are so few concepts in the language, but those concepts are pretty familiar ones for most programmers 02:38:53 oh cool 02:38:59 Fiora: Bike's command actually just generated a program that outputs "!bf_txtgen", there's no nesting of commands in EgoBot 02:39:04 Oh. 02:39:09 i;m creative 02:39:10 kmc: i heard that 98% of programmers die when they hear the word "pointer" though 02:39:18 so, how would you do: int a, int b, int c = a+b 02:39:20 have also heard 02:39:22 then output int c 02:39:24 I would change my nick to "TwilightSpockle" 02:39:26 But alas 02:39:27 @@ @run (@run text "2 + 2") 02:39:29 4 02:39:29 I am the lazy. 02:39:34 lambdabot does command nesting though! 02:39:37 RainbowUnicorn: that's not legal c even. i couldn't guess 02:39:43 trying to do addition in bf sounds really difficult... 02:39:44 RainbowUnicorn: if you google "brainfuck addition" you will find many results 02:39:47 in brainfuck 02:39:50 Fiora: nah it's not that bad 02:39:54 oh ok 02:39:57 you decrement one cell and increment the other in a loop 02:40:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms <-- our fine page on the subject 02:40:08 it destroys the first value 02:40:09 is that our only pge on the subject 02:40:10 that only works if your numbers fit in 8-bit, right? 02:40:13 yeah 02:40:15 and then, like, you'll somehow have to print it 02:40:29 yeah decimal conversion is... a lot more difficult 02:40:29 wait what's the cell size ot to do with it 02:40:50 though not particularly long given http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm, probably 02:43:26 o.o 02:43:40 lol, i might actually learn this language 02:44:46 it's fun 02:44:56 :D 02:45:05 it looks... interesting 02:45:15 brainfuck has kind of a poor reputation here because of the number of people who make a trivial variation on brainfuck and try to pass it off as a new interesting esolang 02:45:19 tell us if you find the shortest way to print out 28187 02:45:28 but brainfuck itself is a fine language 02:45:36 "teach yourself brainfuck in 31 seconds" 02:46:14 ^? 02:46:32 joke 02:46:39 oh ok 02:46:55 "teach yourself drugz in 31 seconds" 02:47:01 (drugz joke) 02:47:04 RainbowUnicorn: other esolangs I recommend checking out: Befunge, Unlambda, Lazy K, Piet 02:47:11 others here can suggest a lot more 02:47:11 probably you've seen "Teach yourself C++ in 21 days" or "Teach yourself Prolog in 24 hours" sorts of books 02:47:13 shachaf: I don't know why I laughed 02:47:29 elliott: because drugz jokes are funny 02:47:36 kmc: you should add Underload to your list 02:47:53 RainbowUnicorn: you might also like BF Joust which is a 2-player programming game based on Brainfuck: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 02:47:55 yeah underload is good. 02:48:02 that isn't a statement about what you should tell people so much as a statement that you should become an underload fan because it's great 02:48:04 it has very deep strategy http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies 02:49:06 * RainbowUnicorn is back now 02:49:20 i was just looking through the algorithm thing for BF 02:49:22 neat 02:49:32 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome is another interesting, unimplemented lang 02:51:10 hmm 02:51:13 * RainbowUnicorn goes now 02:51:17 -!- RainbowUnicorn has left ("Leaving"). 02:51:32 `goodbye 02:51:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: goodbye: not found 02:51:39 roodbye 02:51:40 rudebye 02:51:44 so uh... what are the odds on them coming back 02:51:46 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:51:52 i'd say six 02:52:05 six over pi squared 02:52:08 Bike: uhh 02:52:13 Bike: those are evens 02:52:19 maybe you meant five or seven 02:52:40 hi mnoqy 02:52:57 hi 02:53:04 hi 02:55:28 #esoteric: where even "hi" is a complicated in-joke 02:57:24 kmc: your + balances out your name really well 02:57:29 I thought you should know 02:58:04 -!- augur has joined. 02:58:38 imo kmc should be dethroned 02:58:40 and devoiced 02:58:48 but I like listening to his voice 02:59:04 ↑ 03:01:27 whoa. I have no idea what kmc's voice sounds like. I have no idea what kmc looks like 03:01:34 actually I think kmc looks basically like edwardk in my head 03:01:43 do you know what edwardk looks like 03:02:09 I assume he's tall and vaguely imposing 03:02:48 + mushrooms growing in hair and shirt 03:02:57 and bike is standing next to him and resting on his shoulder or something 03:03:08 and elliott is jumping up and down waving his hands, trying to get kmc's attention 03:03:16 but kmc is so tall he can't see him 03:03:25 I truly have no idea where I'm going here 03:03:49 no i think this is accurate 03:04:05 elliott: kmc doesn't look very like edwardk at all 03:04:11 and I'm hiding behind bike. I tink. 03:04:12 *think 03:04:22 s/very // 03:04:35 too bad i'm basically made of skin and plastic and don't cover much area. 03:04:50 you have more forward-facing surface area than me! 03:05:32 Maybe I could be wearing a wind breaker to make sure you're hidden. 03:05:49 Bike: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c51a8b8afa2366a2ef4650c411f187a?s=420&d=https://a248.e.akamai.net/assets.github.com%2Fimages%2Fgravatars%2Fgravatar-user-420.png edwardk 03:05:54 I could also present myself as large to deter predators, and envelop prey/cute girls possibly. 03:05:58 note "420" in the URL, proof that it's also kmc 03:06:57 y-you're just trying to get me flustered now <.< 03:07:16 Maybe. 03:08:08 biiiiike >///< 03:08:52 I do want to go around monster-ing people like a lizard now, though. 03:09:23 are there any pictures of kmc on the internet 03:09:36 p. not 03:10:09 pretty not?? 03:10:10 "p. not"... 03:10:31 "probably not" 03:10:35 come on disambiguate a little 03:10:39 no you can't do that. 03:11:02 i p. can 03:11:05 p. sure no one will stop me 03:11:24 fuck 03:11:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:12:39 also bike which parts of you are plastic o_O 03:12:45 like where did the plastic comment come from 03:13:40 i pretty much imagine myself as looking like http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090812195141/half-life/en/images/4/40/Stalker_ep1.jpg 03:14:13 <.< 03:14:34 betcha can't prove me wrong 03:15:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:16:20 Bike: oh yeah, in which axiom system 03:16:55 Fiora: well he's a bicycle 03:17:01 they generally contain plastic parts I think 03:17:02 I guess a bicycle is not good for hiding behind 03:17:04 Bike: are you a bicycle 03:17:21 Ye. 03:17:22 still geez. you're pretty huge I thought <.< 03:17:26 Bike: i thought you were human 03:17:33 No, I'm humankin. 03:17:37 and just used the nick Bike on irc 03:17:48 you said you were like 5'11" or soething. that's a pretty big bike 03:17:56 i don't look that much like edwardk 03:18:01 i have short hair and i'm not as big 03:18:03 a bicycle built for nine~ 03:18:13 i bet Bike is a victorian bicycle 03:18:27 a penny farthing? i'm not that old fashioned. 03:18:36 yes, that 03:18:48 more like penny farting 03:18:49 edwardk has short hair 03:18:53 does he 03:18:57 i have poor memory 03:19:00 any hair shorter than mine is short 03:19:00 i thought he had, like, a ponytail 03:19:02 kmc: he shaved his beard 03:19:07 ok 03:19:08 and removed a lot of hair 03:19:12 it would have to be a long ponytail to count 03:19:16 a lot of it is back now 03:19:33 I think of myself as looking like a pretty stereotypical programmer... kinda pudgy white guy wearing a tshirt and cargo pants 03:19:49 kmc: when i saw you i thought you were unusual looking 03:19:52 but I don't anymore wear t-shirts with sassy nerd slogans on them, just plain black 03:20:15 and I don't have facial hair and I'm not super fat or greasy (opinions may differ on this) 03:20:24 I picture shachaf as being tall and skinny and I think having blond hair. I have no idea why 03:20:27 i used to wear tie dye more often 03:20:36 I'm sure I've seen a pic of shachaf online 03:20:54 inb4 shachaf links to that pic that isn't actually a pic. 03:20:57 elliott: i had blond hair until i was 3 or so does that count 03:21:06 elliott: oh good idea thanks for reminding me 03:21:15 shachaf: how does that work 03:21:26 I look like this: http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png 03:21:37 XD 03:21:44 wow slbkbs.org, so last year. I thought it was all shachaf.net now 03:21:57 no hebrew IDN?? 03:22:02 kmc: not sure 03:22:35 kmc: i think there are pictures of me online from when i was 6.......... 03:23:30 i look like a stereotypical programmer except for being a long bike covered in slime and other organic compounds 03:23:30 * Fiora wears rectangular-ish black framed glasses, has long straight black hair with bangs, and usually wears a shirt with a sweater or maybe a light jacket and a casual skirt with tights? 03:24:10 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:24:34 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:26:07 Bike: where does the slime come from... 03:26:20 i became a biologist to find out 03:26:27 shachaf: what did you think was unusual about me 03:26:51 kmc: not sure 03:27:08 -!- augur has joined. 03:27:16 ok 03:29:14 appearance bandwagon submission: I look boring 03:29:59 except you have super long hair? 03:30:30 it's not actually super long 03:30:32 well it used to be 03:30:35 I mean it's pretty long 03:30:53 also I'm incredibly thin 03:31:14 i used to have longer hair than i do now 03:31:39 people told me i was a p. girl a lot at the time 03:31:46 "p. girl"........ 03:31:48 now they don't tell me i'm p. :'( 03:34:13 Hair cutting? D: 03:34:16 elliott's definition of boring actually means "adorable" 03:34:16 Who would ever do that 03:34:17 =x= 03:34:39 elliott: am i boring 03:34:47 I mean, except to maintain a hairstyle D: 03:34:55 that's not what I mean when I call Bike boring! 03:34:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:35:02 (as far as I am aware I have never called Bike boring.) 03:35:29 -!- Bike has joined. 03:35:51 esoteric/2013-04-07.txt:05:26:16: you're boring, Bike 03:36:08 20:29 < elliott> appearance bandwagon submission: I look boring 03:36:13 I am going by that 03:36:23 i agree with both quoted messages 03:37:02 you hurt me, Bike :'( 03:37:08 Fiora: /set show_nickmode_empty off 03:37:26 shachaf: never 03:38:40 elliott: how adorable am i 03:39:08 Bike: ⅝ hth 03:39:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:39:18 Oh 03:43:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:49:54 * elliott yawn 04:06:29 * Fiora yawns with elliott 04:07:00 elliott: stop living in america time hth 04:07:33 what time is it in america 04:07:41 various 04:07:49 freedom o'clock 04:07:54 @localtime america 04:07:55 Local time for America is Tue Jun 25 13:07:51 2013 04:08:10 `run TZ=America/New_York date 04:08:11 Tue Jun 25 00:08:11 EDT 2013 04:08:19 `run TZ=America/Los_Angeles date 04:08:20 Mon Jun 24 21:08:20 PDT 2013 04:08:23 @time Fiora 04:08:23 Local time for Fiora is Mon Jun 24 21:08:23 2013 04:08:24 @time Bike 04:08:26 Local time for Bike is Mon Jun 24 21:08:25 2013 04:08:29 @time kmc 04:08:29 Local time for kmc is Tue Jun 25 00:08:29 2013 04:08:34 whoa. 04:08:35 so america is in like, india or something? cool 04:08:39 @time shachaf 04:08:40 whoa what 04:08:43 Local time for shachaf is Mon Jun 24 21:08:39 2013 04:08:46 `run TZ=America/Anchorage date 04:08:48 Mon Jun 24 20:08:47 AKDT 2013 04:08:51 conclusion: kmc isn't in America 04:08:54 `run TZ=America/Honolulu date 04:08:55 Tue Jun 25 04:08:55 America 2013 04:08:58 eff 04:09:02 `run TZ=America/Phoenix date 04:09:04 Mon Jun 24 21:09:03 MST 2013 04:09:19 ok well hawaii doesn't even begin to count if you ask me. 04:09:24 `run TZ=Canada/Newfoundland date 04:09:26 Tue Jun 25 01:39:25 NDT 2013 04:09:32 it doesn't even get to 2. starts at 1, goes nowhere. no counting 04:09:33 elliott: hey we stole it fair and square 04:09:37 good time zone imo 04:09:53 `run TZ=Oceania/Honolulu date 04:09:55 Tue Jun 25 04:09:55 Oceania 2013 04:09:57 fuck 04:09:59 this 04:10:00 noise 04:10:21 shhhh. it's ok kmc 04:10:21 @localtime lambdabot 04:10:21 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 04:10:33 `run TZ=Pacific/Honolulu date 04:10:33 lambdabot lives in London 04:10:35 Mon Jun 24 18:10:34 HST 2013 04:10:44 stop ruining my immersion elliott 04:10:50 kmc: we're at war with oceania 04:10:51 silly kmc 04:17:10 great 04:18:37 anyway the real time is 5 am. 04:25:18 `run TZ=elliott date 04:25:20 Tue Jun 25 04:25:19 elliott 2013 04:25:26 WRONG 04:26:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctTVcKNx8Rk 04:35:17 kmc: i wish i had learned rust really well a long time ago but then forgot most of it 04:35:21 then i could say i'm rusty 04:35:45 which is probably the first rust pun everyone makes "but oh well" 04:36:17 anyway it looks like it's p. nice and also like it's p. p. immature 04:45:23 -!- augur has joined. 04:47:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:48:27 -!- augur has joined. 05:12:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:13:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 05:15:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:24:05 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:36:51 -!- augur has changed nick to augur_. 05:37:05 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 06:07:00 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:19:39 kmc: ok you convinced me 06:21:38 of? 06:21:50 kmc: doing the luajit thing 06:22:08 or at least thinking that I should do either that or one of the two other things I think I should be doing without actually doing any of them 06:22:20 ok 06:22:33 step 1: delegation 06:22:40 shachaf: would cmm or stg be better to turn into lua 06:23:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:24:37 -!- Bike has joined. 06:26:49 elliott: that depends hth 06:28:07 it did not help. 06:29:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:30:55 -!- Bike has joined. 06:49:07 23:47 * shachaf heard a rumour rust was nearly stable... 06:49:11 23:47 < dbaupp> shachaf: heard wrong ;) 06:49:11 23:47 < aatch> shachaf, you heard wrong. 06:55:19 nice 07:24:01 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:32:23 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:04:49 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:11:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:32:41 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:40:08 shachaf: /set show_nickmode_empty off 08:44:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:13:50 Or don't 09:15:58 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:46 Deewiant: the joke is 04:37:08 Fiora: /set show_nickmode_empty off 09:17:14 OK, carry on 09:19:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:42:36 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:54:58 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:11:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:24:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:35:55 -!- serdar has joined. 10:35:59 -!- serdar has quit (Client Quit). 10:36:36 -!- shachaf has set topic: The channel for "ordinary" people | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 10:37:34 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "scare quoted" people | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 10:59:28 -!- atehwa has joined. 11:16:37 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:41:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:56:52 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:04:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:12:49 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:14:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 12:22:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:55:43 -!- carado has joined. 13:13:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 13:13:27 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "scare quoted" people | where even "hi" is a complicated in-joke | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 13:14:13 btw codu logs are back up 13:14:17 you should fix the topic and then op kmc, hth 13:14:54 why do people keep drowning me in heaps of work 13:15:35 you could delegate some of it to kmc, hth 13:15:40 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "scare quoted" people | where even "hi" is a complicated in-joke | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 13:20:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:22:38 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:23:01 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:29:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:29:15 so america is in like, india or something? cool <-- japan, it seems 13:38:16 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: No route to host). 13:38:40 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:41:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 13:48:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:51:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 14:01:19 -!- katla has joined. 14:05:41 -!- comex` has joined. 14:06:16 -!- katla has left. 14:06:19 -!- katla has joined. 14:10:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:11:46 -!- comex has quit (*.net *.split). 14:12:53 -!- Yonkie_ has joined. 14:15:07 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 14:17:54 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:25:44 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: No route to host). 14:26:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:29:15 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 14:32:40 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:36:06 -!- tertu has joined. 14:38:20 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:38:54 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:39:20 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:39:32 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:41:23 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:43:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:46:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:49:19 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 14:49:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:49:39 -!- Bike has joined. 14:50:21 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:50:55 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:52:49 -!- comex` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:53:02 -!- comex has joined. 14:53:10 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:55:24 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:55:30 -!- katla has joined. 14:55:40 -!- katla has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:55:51 -!- katla has joined. 15:44:38 -!- Semen_Dickman has joined. 15:46:26 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 15:46:26 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 15:46:26 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 15:46:26 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 15:46:54 -!- variable has joined. 15:48:18 `relcome Semen_Dickman 15:48:25 ​Semen_Dickman: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:49:49 ?????????????????????????? 15:50:03 mnoqy: hi 15:50:09 hi 16:09:17 MTHR FUCK 16:09:25 FUICK YOU ALL STIUPID LOSERS 16:10:23 Hi. 16:11:43 hi 16:12:13 Semen_Dickman: That's kind of rude 16:12:51 -!- carado has joined. 16:12:51 -!- lambdabot has joined. 16:12:51 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 16:13:17 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:13:40 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 16:13:57 Semen_Dickman: you sound like you could use a cookie. and an anger management class 16:15:41 -!- coppro_ has joined. 16:15:53 -!- iamcal____ has joined. 16:17:26 quintopia: and a typing class, possibly 16:18:10 AnotherTest: i was assuming the misspellings were intentional 16:18:25 You never know. 16:19:22 all Semen_Dickman needs is a bit of love and some care 16:19:53 -!- iamcal___ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:19:53 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:19:54 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:19:55 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:20:12 -!- iamcal____ has changed nick to iamcal___. 16:20:16 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 16:20:26 -!- ion_ has joined. 16:20:28 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 16:21:18 -!- ion_ has changed nick to ion. 16:21:37 `seen flack 16:21:43 not lately; try `seen flack ever 16:21:50 `seen flack ever 16:22:21 No output. 16:27:46 the nickname semen dickman let me think he gets a lot of love... from himself 16:29:24 WHAT KINDA MOTEHR BUCKING GAY CHAT IS THIS FUCK 16:29:38 OKAY ANY WAY I DIPPED MY COMPUTER IN MY TOILET 16:29:41 NOW IT NOT WORKING 16:29:42 I NEED HELP 16:29:54 Have you tried in #toilets? 16:30:00 you definitly do 16:30:19 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:31:19 HEY SERIOUSLY I WANT THIS FUCKER GOING PLEASE HELP ME 16:32:06 yeah, people love to help people yelling at them 16:32:10 like, totally 16:32:19 insert obligatory hth here 16:32:21 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Excess Flood). 16:32:45 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 16:48:35 http://www.virtualshackles.com/421 16:48:49 Esoteric means what? 16:49:24 -!- jsvine has joined. 16:49:46 whats the best way to fuck a nugger? 16:49:51 go away 16:50:06 With consent? 16:50:06 mnoqy: You’re just feeding it. Ignore them and they’ll get bored. 16:50:07 mnoqy stop giving him attentoin 16:50:07 fuck you bitch 16:50:08 are any ops around? fizzie? 16:50:24 ion, katla: yeah, yeah 16:50:25 mnoqy imma go boom boom on your cow mother bitch 16:51:33 kind of curious how people do this tho 16:51:41 how people do what? 16:51:42 ????like, why??????? 16:52:05 mnoqy why you so stupid ...mothe bitch? 16:53:07 imma nugger can i place ma ass here yo yo yo? 16:53:39 SKeet Skeet bang bang nugga 16:56:44 can't we keep it and raise it? 16:57:04 poor misunderstood thing 16:57:13 myname 16:57:23 maybe someday it will even be able to talk properly 16:57:34 myname: i suggest you follow ion and katla's advice, it's working wonders for me 16:57:51 :D 17:00:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:01:34 l 17:05:27 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 17:06:53 coppro? more like cockpro 17:07:33 Semen_Dickman: damn, you got me 17:08:19 nugga i aint catching any one 17:08:24 skeet skeet bang bang nugga 17:12:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:13:20 -!- Yonkie has joined. 17:17:30 -!- heroux_ has joined. 17:18:59 -!- coppro_ has joined. 17:20:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:21:48 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 17:21:48 -!- Yonkie_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:21:48 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 17:21:49 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 17:21:49 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 17:21:55 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 17:22:08 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 17:24:02 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:28:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 17:28:06 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +b *!*@117.206.25.86. 17:28:13 -!- fizzie has kicked Semen_Dickman Semen_Dickman. 17:28:22 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie. 17:28:29 -!- Bike has joined. 17:28:42 (I'm kind of on vacation here.) 17:28:46 thanks 17:29:58 hi Bike 17:31:16 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:39:52 elliott stream that game again 17:47:49 `quote #toilet 17:47:51 380) * Sgeo mutters about broken toilets #toilet is useless is #toilet even a thing I'm looking for help with toilets 17:48:04 shouldn't it be ##toilet anyway 17:48:13 also if I had op power I could have dealt with the situtaion abov 17:56:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:56:25 kmc, you already have voice power, don't get ahead of yourself. 17:56:36 fizzie, WHY IS GREGOR UNVOICED 18:04:14 -!- conehead has joined. 18:10:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:16:38 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:18:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:25:15 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:33:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:56:12 hi katla. 18:57:27 wow did someone seriously just join the channel to act like a family guy joke 18:57:43 what are your interests 18:58:13 math, brains, legs, punching dickbags 18:58:37 which math 18:58:55 this machine punches dickbags 18:59:05 Right now I'm reading an introduction to real analysis. 18:59:45 cool 19:00:55 i know what a topology is now, it's all hella exciting 19:01:50 i dont really know abot topology 19:02:22 me neither, that's why it's exciting. 19:07:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 19:07:39 man, topology is the best 19:07:52 -!- conehead has joined. 19:08:22 tel me about it 19:08:50 i know the defeinition 19:09:15 the definition of what a topology is? 19:09:42 yes 19:11:07 well uh it lets you define continuity and convergence and stuff without a notion of distance, so that's cool 19:11:38 compactness 19:11:41 compactness is cool 19:18:55 > let f x = x + 1/x in map f [1..] 19:18:56 [2.0,2.5,3.3333333333333335,4.25,5.2,6.166666666666667,7.142857142857143,8.... 19:19:11 :t iterate 19:19:11 (a -> a) -> a -> [a] 19:19:27 > iterate (\x -> x + 1/x) 2 19:19:28 [2.0,2.5,2.9,3.2448275862068963,3.5530103704789475,3.8344618428159674,4.095... 19:21:43 mmmm compactness 19:28:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:31:57 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 19:32:39 :[ 19:33:10 not a fan of constants? 19:34:55 attempt at strart discusion failed 19:35:16 yeah i turns out i actually don' know shit about anything 19:36:39 it happens when by it i mean me not talking 19:39:43 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:39:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:03:48 kmc: now i'm looking for myrands. http://pastebin.com/5gSh5iXJ why would you write your own lcg like this 20:06:04 cute 20:06:39 https://github.com/cpuwhiz11/CS-School-Work/blob/b19e66cb38828e22bd1bcee31c923c95e62062eb/101/pg44.c good 20:08:10 cpuwhiz11 20:08:29 int ret = (int) (((float) n * (float) rand()) / ((float) RAND_MAX + 1.0)); "here let me sign your cast" 20:08:48 (signed)(float)x 20:09:44 hah 20:10:15 how do you design a random number generator? 20:10:35 "std::size_t ret = rand() % N;" i don't even know what's going on here 20:10:50 katla: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator is a place to start 20:11:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRNG ~ 20:11:56 so theres this Hull-Dobell Theorem 20:12:09 that tells you when a linear RNG will be good for all seeds 20:12:48 this particular kind, yeah. 20:12:52 and for certain values of "good" 20:12:54 then theres: 20:12:56 LCGs tend to exhibit some severe defects. For instance, if an LCG is used to choose points in an n-dimensional space, the points will lie on, at most, m1/n hyperplanes (Marsaglia's Theorem 20:13:02 yeah it's not great 20:13:08 but it's easy to understand, so, good for learning 20:14:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:14:57 it's basically like, random number generators are a tradeoff between "fast" and "good randomness" 20:15:02 man RANDU is so great 20:15:05 and like an LCG is fast and simple but doesn't have great randomness 20:15:23 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:15:35 -!- Bike has joined. 20:16:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversive_congruential_generator 20:16:16 thats so weir 20:16:17 d 20:16:25 x_{i+1} = c if x_i = 0 20:16:54 i suppose it doesn't matter though 20:18:40 doesn't matter? 20:19:01 my first thought was that might give a bias towards c but it doesnt 20:20:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_feedback_shift_register 20:20:41 well, assuming x_i is evenly distributed in 0..q it should work 20:20:45 this seems like thenext step up 20:21:10 nah, it's still linear. 20:21:21 oh 20:21:25 linear feedback shift register was the first sorta prng i learned 20:21:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlekamp-Massey_algorithm 20:23:52 "const int Random::NewRand()" 20:29:37 so whats an example of a nonlinear RNG? 20:29:47 other than the inverse one 20:30:01 oh! blum blum shub 20:30:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub 20:31:54 most are nonlinear really 20:33:34 like? 20:35:11 blum blum shub, mersenne 20:35:47 well i guess linearity isn't that important and i'm talking out my ass but 20:49:48 -!- jsvine has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:50:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:52:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 20:54:37 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:12:19 cool, Marsaglia's theorem 21:12:19 til 21:12:43 I know Marsaglia from MWC256 here: http://forums.wolfram.com/mathgroup/archive/2003/Feb/msg00456.html 21:13:54 «Just as the "Miss America Contest" judges have to[...]» ok 21:14:26 it's kind of awesome that a) Blum Blum Shub is named after the three inventors, b) the two Blums are married, c) they're both CS professors at CMU, d) their son is also a CS professor at CMU 21:14:37 he's also Blum right 21:14:40 yes 21:14:42 good 21:14:52 the blum dynasty 21:15:12 srand( time( NULL ) ) ; x = rand() % 39 + -19 ; 21:15:15 no 21:15:44 yes. hell yes 21:16:11 kmc: are they related to Blum the phd student at cmu 21:16:55 "Avrim is the son of two other famous computer scientists, Manuel Blum and Lenore Blum.[4] Avrim is the father of Alex Blum and Aaron Blum." 21:17:10 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:17:22 so, the blum dynasty. 21:17:28 this could rival the curie dynasty maaaaan 21:18:36 "Ève was the only member of her family who did not choose a career as a scientist and did not win a Nobel Prize, although her husband Henry Richardson Labouisse, Jr. did collect the Nobel Peace Prize in 1965 on behalf of UNICEF." 21:18:47 geez. talk about a high standard to live up to 21:19:25 Fiora: it is a nobel cause 21:19:56 * Fiora winces, hides 21:20:53 so i torrented apocalypse now 21:21:23 the torrent claims to be 1080p; except it's in widescreen, so there aren't 1080 vertical pixels 21:21:34 i feel cheated? 21:23:30 kmc: what kind of application would you need a 2^131086 period for O_o 21:25:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:30:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:32:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:32:37 -!- augur has joined. 21:34:48 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:37:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:39:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:47:13 insert obligatory hth here <-- i think that's an incorrect format hth 21:48:24 * oerjan is trying that newfangled screen thing 21:48:35 i think i need a better command char than ^A 21:50:42 http://25.media.tumblr.com/8296d5c9a6b3bbe0fbfeca8776ccb055/tumblr_mo53okwvyG1s0s0n5o1_500.jpg 21:52:05 i don't see any pi... 21:53:29 -!- carado has joined. 22:22:01 dammit it turns out trying to set the screen command character to ^S (_so_ mnemonical) is _not_ a good idea. 22:22:23 took me ages to fix without killing screen :P 22:22:51 (fortunately i could do shell commands, and screen -X helped) 22:23:11 * oerjan settles on ^Y instead 22:25:46 ok back to this hilarious phallic guy in the logs 22:28:12 elliott: CLEARLY THAT WAS YOU TRYING TO SLYLY IMPLICATE WE NEED MORE OPS HTH 22:28:31 elliott, so idle 22:32:38 as is fizzie 22:32:58 the most pointless false flag operation in the history of the world 22:33:19 but it's working! 22:33:33 imo: op me 22:33:43 i can be trusted 22:33:49 O KAY 22:34:03 well, glad we got that worked out then. 22:34:21 (hint: O KAY doesn't mean yes) 22:34:54 tyrant 22:35:18 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:56:52 http://tvpmassachusetts.org/?page_id=6 should I have voted for this party? they were on the ballot for some reason 22:57:11 Democrat, Republican, and Twelve Visions Party 22:57:16 no Green Rainbow this time 22:57:39 is this a fucking self-help stoner party 22:59:45 if you look at the top you can find the "Prime Law" which they want to replace the US constitution with 23:00:12 "I do not know where I got off track but I look at this and at other passages about women and realize that I have 23:00:15 taken on too much of a tomboy role and need to go back to being the woman God made me and enjoy 23:00:18 it. " 23:00:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:01:26 oh no, they're libertarians 23:01:51 Just curious if this was inpired by the three-article code of Liu Bang, the first Han emperor of China. 23:02:58 so how did they get on the ballot 23:03:10 lots of entertaining spam of the electoral people? 23:03:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:03:33 idk 23:03:49 http://tvpmassachusetts.org/?page_id=19#comment-1730 speaks to me on a psychosexual level 23:04:37 ;_; 23:04:49 it's fun trying to sort out the spam comments from the crazies on here 23:05:18 "Howԁy would you mind lеttіng me know whiсh ωebhoѕt you’re using?" 23:05:34 my d4d 3arns $7 512 per m0nth us1ng thi5 o/\/e we1rd tri(k 23:05:46 herb4l vjagra 23:07:10 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 23:07:55 Now they add non-ASCII letters to trick them? 23:08:03 yes 23:08:49 Disable non-ASCII in those comments will correct that problem at least (but not all of them); whether or not such a thing would be suitable depend what kind of things are being commented on, I suppose. 23:09:44 i'll inform the twelve visions council immediately 23:10:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:11:05 Of course this won't help 100% though; maybe only 5% or so but it might also help another thing other than spam. 23:11:47 Also, to fix the spam still require many more thing too. 23:15:54 Welp, I just reached the bit with the playmates. 23:16:01 That... was weird. 23:21:43 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:22:00 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:30:52 -!- kgoret has joined. 23:31:32 * kgoret gives ion a kiss. no reason in particular. 23:32:14 `relcome kgoret 23:32:17 ​kgoret: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:34:39 * kgoret sings OOM BOP .. OOM BOT .> LAGHLRHUGRUHS HUUUHGHRH LURRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHR 23:34:58 epic 23:45:32 we have a few too many k's in this channel, i feel 23:46:52 more like a few too many 's's 23:47:33 mm, the s situation is pretty bad 23:48:57 I have neither, is that good? 23:50:27 The capital F situation is dire (because we have three, and nicks should start with a lowercase letter). 23:50:39 :< 23:50:44 but I'm a proper noun 23:51:04 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to AProperNoun. 23:51:09 * AProperNoun isn't 23:51:12 You mean "I is a proper noun". 23:51:19 i seem to be a verb 23:51:20 And, no, I is a pronoun. 23:51:53 oh no in 2 days kmc is leaving massachusetts forever 23:51:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5IhPXEKNGE 23:52:07 shachaf: more or less? I'll probably visit at some point 23:52:19 shachaf: what about it thouh 23:52:28 nothing in particular 23:52:56 ok 23:52:58 okay, okay, Fiora is a proper noun 23:53:00 shachaf, is it because i is a proper noun 23:53:11 shachaf, I feel like an idiot 23:53:13 i ain't no proper noun 23:53:14 I am a person but 'I' is a pronoun 23:53:22 you'd think this channel of all channels could get quoting right 23:53:49 you'd think this channel of all channels would get quoting wrong on purpose 23:54:02 I wouldn't use '\'' to quote words even if the word is one letter 23:54:16 Well, maybe I would. Or 'I' would 23:54:16 rong on purpwse 23:54:26 AProperNoun: I'm waiting for the `olist update. 23:54:31 plz fix hth 23:54:33 * I :Nickname is already in use. 23:55:05 kmc: i found multiple rust bugs by trying to use it yesterday 23:55:45 like the bug where you can make struct Foo { a: int, a: int } 23:55:51 great 23:56:09 also it's the opposite of nearly stable 23:56:10 if shachaf finds bugs in it, that's p. buggy 23:56:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2013-06-26: 00:02:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "scare quoted" people | where even "hi" is a p. complicated in-joke | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 00:05:32 oerjan: i'm still learning 00:05:55 good, good 00:06:11 hi o'erjan 00:06:29 do you guys ever talk about anything interesting 00:06:45 no 00:07:03 I try sometimes but I'm not very good at starting conversations 00:07:09 and they don't seem to be interested in a lot of the stuff I am so 00:07:43 which stuff 00:08:09 katla: what do you find interesting? you could try to start a conversation on one of those topics 00:08:11 and now i reached the scene with the french guy ranting about how the french lost all their wars 00:08:18 to me a lot of the conversations in here are interesting 00:08:26 im not really interested in stuff :/ 00:08:27 times never change :') 00:08:32 even the ones that aren't me talking to myself 00:08:46 katla, what about compactness `q. interesting imo' 00:08:58 apocalypse now mentions france, huh 00:09:11 ho can we talk about compactness though 00:09:21 there's nothing to say 00:09:34 in the 'redux' editions they run into some french colonists who are still around for some reason 00:09:54 yeah 00:09:58 * shachaf likes the kmc talking to himself conversations 00:10:06 also the kmc talking to other people conversations 00:10:16 i think it's an extension of the 'going backwards through vietnamese history' thing 00:10:49 shachaf: Um... I like astrophysics and computer architecture and strategy games and JRPGs and otome games and plushies and mahou shoujo and some other things and there doesn't seem to be that much overlap there 00:11:31 Phantom___Hoover: ending with jungle warlords? 00:11:45 i guess (i haven't reached that far yet) 00:11:50 i wanted to make bacteria plushies (bacteria are cute) 00:12:01 shachaf: you can buy those! I actually have two 00:12:14 Fiora: do they use the motto "gotta catch them all" 00:12:16 imo they should do that 00:12:18 http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/6708/ 00:12:26 uh clearly, a manga where magical girls learn astrophysics and computer architecture 00:12:28 a friend sent me the mono virus 00:12:38 how romantic 00:12:38 probably so he could say "I gave fiora kissing disease" 00:13:02 (he is a terrible^Wwonderful flirt) 00:13:14 Fiora: ok so those exist but maybe they didn't exist back when i thought about it 00:13:29 what, no blood tube 00:13:45 An otome game (乙女ゲーム otome gēmu?, lit. "maiden game") is a video game that is targeted towards a female market, where one of the main goals, besides the plot goal, is to develop a romantic relationship between the female player character and one of several male, or occasionally female characters. 00:14:01 is "visual novel" a better general term <.< 00:14:19 Fiora, so are you a fan of mass effect 00:14:36 garrus isn't very bishie. imo. 00:15:13 can you read japanese? 00:15:21 Bike, how do you know 00:15:29 hey i can money through gmail now 00:15:36 send 00:15:43 it's like harry potter except they are all learning computer architecture 00:16:08 uh clearly, a manga where magical girls learn astrophysics and computer architecture <-- id read this 00:16:14 i'd also read it. 00:16:18 me too 00:16:20 "just putting that out there" 00:16:25 i wouldn't 00:16:43 "bad taste in manga" 00:16:57 -!- sacje has joined. 00:17:01 yeah sorry phantom, objectively bad taste there. 00:17:06 I played mass effect 1 and 2 but I lost a bit of interest towards the end, I should play 3 sometime though 00:17:12 but I was like "aghghghg I have to download origin", and so I never did 00:17:19 garrus was pretty wonderful though 00:17:28 unfortunately my favorite character had no romance route, buuut 00:17:36 are you often like "aghghghg"? 00:17:39 it was the opera guy wasn't it 00:17:44 wasn't it 00:17:57 you mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXiU6kiq_Ms ? 00:18:11 ayep. 00:18:21 Mordin was so completely amazing 00:18:28 bless you, mordin 00:18:29 blordin 00:18:50 that musta been a fun acting job. 00:19:11 katla: I -wish- I could. but the amount of japanese I know could fit on half a page 00:19:36 I for one am often like "aghghghg" 00:19:55 me too 00:20:07 "I should play 3 sometime though" probably don't play it after... sanctuary? 00:20:22 some would say you should stop after tuchanka 00:20:42 ? 00:21:00 you know, the infamous ending/macroplot clusterfuck 00:21:05 I guess I kind of like bioware's older games better... I hope dragon age 3 is okay at least 00:21:38 and in fairness they have some really wonderful writers so... 00:21:40 Fiora hm why dont you write that all out then fill the rest of the page with new words and learn it all 00:21:53 well there's like. a lot of it 00:21:59 because learning a language like that takes years of practice and dedication and is really difficult 00:22:34 from what i understand, the talent pool at bioware has become incredibly diluted 00:23:18 since they're now split across what, two or three different studios now? and they have a bunch more staff, and they're now locked into EA's AAA release cycle 00:23:24 yeah >_< 00:24:01 is armikrog going to make it y/n 00:24:13 n 00:24:25 http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog/ 00:24:27 Pessimist__Hoover 00:24:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:24:54 ion: oh no :'( 00:26:05 Note that extrapolating from the last two or three data points seems enough for it to make it. So if the latest trend continues… 00:26:33 man, that is pretty infuriating 00:26:40 http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog/#chart-daily 00:27:30 Inquiry: I might be getting hired by Google. Yes or very yes on not finishing college? 00:27:54 pikhq_: as in, dropping out and going to google? 00:28:04 coppro: Si 00:28:14 $i 00:28:20 pikhq_: if they're willing to actually have you do it, very yes, unless you're working on chrome (imo) 00:28:26 $√−1 00:28:34 but if you're actually going to go full-time, internal mobility is high, so whatever 00:28:34 So far made it past the initial phone screen. 00:28:46 With them knowing that that's where I'm at. 00:29:33 Noting also that I've been at least considering dropping out *as is*. 00:29:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Weird numpad bug). 00:30:30 pikhq_: count the number of times you hear "cool" in your interview. if more than 7 stay in school. 00:31:20 kgoret: Google backend stuff. 00:32:05 From a recruiter contacting me... 00:32:57 -!- augur has joined. 00:33:15 did you get a job offer or just a recruiter email? 00:33:27 Recruiter email & initial interview. 00:35:21 I don't think that's any sort of guarantee you'll get a job at all... recruiters send out a whole bunch of emails, I don't think they have any influence on the interview process and whether or not you get a job 00:35:55 It's not, I'm just hopeful. And gonna see where this leads. 00:36:35 Also I'm getting kinda sick of going through college this fucking slowly. 00:37:39 At the rate I'm going I'll be bald when I get my diploma. 00:38:28 a brilliant artist must be bald and daring 00:40:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:41:53 coppro: why is chrome so bad, compared to google's 90000 other projects 00:41:59 I think chrome is at least a lot more interesting 00:42:11 -!- Bike has joined. 00:42:29 I think Google usually doesn't tell you what specific project you'd work on, until they give you an offer 00:42:32 not sure 00:42:49 kgoret: no it's all about "awesome" now 00:43:02 They tell you the general area they'll be hiring in. 00:43:06 ok 00:43:30 you should think hard on whether you want to commit to being at Google a few years 00:43:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:42 because absent a diploma, you'd be using that experience to sell future employers 00:43:56 do you know which office you'd be in? 00:44:01 Mountain View. 00:44:22 cool 00:44:30 the cool office 00:44:33 not as cool as SF, but I hear it's really hard to get a spot there 00:44:52 it exists so that Google can acqui-hire SF startups who won't sell unless they can stay in the city ;P 00:44:53 That *is* the Googleplex. 00:44:59 I hear SF isn't so much of an engineering office or something. 00:45:08 well, I know some people doing engineering there 00:45:19 pikhq_: Have you been applying to lots of jobs or is this just Google contacting you out of the blue 00:45:33 kmc: I just don't like working on chrome 00:45:35 kmc: Out of the blue. 00:45:47 pikhq_: score 00:46:03 pikhq_: do you think you have the patience & energy to do a bit of a job search to see if you can do better than Google (wrt whatever your own goals are) 00:46:13 pikhq_: I highly recommend infrastructure teams if you can get there 00:46:22 coppro: That's what I'm being recruited for. 00:46:33 pikhq_: score! 00:46:46 I have some regrets over not doing "job searches" in the past and mostly taking the first job that came along 00:46:48 google infrastructure is like a playground 00:47:05 kmc: no, I'm pretty sure there's few jobs in the world better than a Google infrastructure engineer 00:47:12 kmc: Yeah, I'll probably be poking around some more. I'll just say this particular one is damned tempting. 00:47:56 coppro: you're making some assumptions about what pikhq_ wants there 00:48:11 it's pretty arrogant of you 00:48:19 big companies have a lot of disadvantages too 00:48:43 I'll possibly also see if my current internship can be made more... permanent. 00:49:19 and Google corporate culture is not to everyone's liking 00:49:22 no culture is 00:49:23 kmc: everyone thinks exactly like me 00:49:27 clearly 00:49:28 including elliott in particular 00:51:52 The fact that trans-related health care things are part of the benefits makes it somewhat more tempting, considering my girlfriend... 00:52:06 yeah that's very nice 00:52:23 I remember reading google and microsoft were basically the two best in that category, so that's probably a good reason 00:52:40 That really shouldn't be the sole basis on which I decide, but it definitely is something in their favor. 00:52:42 from wording I assume you aren't married so, does Google cover non-married domestic partner whatever health care? 00:52:54 some companies do 00:53:12 Yes. 00:53:12 mozilla will 00:53:12 nice 00:53:13 Also, it'd be literally impossible for us to marry as-is. 00:53:16 sure 00:53:22 Fucking gay marriage laws. 00:54:05 pikhq_: well, hopefully that law won't be very soon 00:54:11 Yeah. 00:54:39 If we're lucky, it'll be moot in a day. 00:54:55 oooh, yeah, is the DOMA decision coming out tomorrow? 00:54:59 Yes. 00:55:07 oh geez, I really really hope there's sanity >_< 00:55:24 I know people literally waiting on that to be able to be together (green cards, etc) 00:55:24 DOMA decision? 00:55:25 well uh you did hear bout their ruling today, didn't you. 00:55:28 "not much hope for that" 00:55:35 Phantom___Hoover: defense of marriage act 00:55:48 I'd be stunned if they uphold prop. 8. 00:56:09 DOMA is the problematic one though, because it kind of doesn't matter if the state endorses a marriage if the federal government won't :/ 00:56:12 for sanity, i meant. not being too serious 00:56:31 Yeah. I'm just saying that prop. 8 is nearly impossible to uphold because of the details of the case. 00:56:48 The defense of prop. 8 was basically "gay people are icky!" 00:57:04 Fiora: is that really true 00:57:10 kmc: you can't get a green card 00:57:17 you can't file taxes with the IRS, I think, as a couple 00:57:22 Yup. 00:57:40 Though Google will pay you the difference. :P 00:57:59 but for example child custody, health care decisions, etc. would be mostly state issues, no? 00:58:04 I know a couple who's basically waiting on it, though they can cheat because one of them could probably legitimately get papers saying she was either male or female depending on what the government insisted on 00:58:09 Yes, those are entirely state issues. 00:58:23 so yes it's not a full victory but I think saying it "doesn't matter" is wrong 00:58:27 Yeah. 00:58:37 yeah... I guess it matters in some ways? but like it's missing a lot of important parts 00:58:41 also the more legally gay-married people exist, the more pressure there will be to repeal / strike down DOMA 00:59:03 "hi we're married and fuck this thing" 00:59:04 *Most* of the things dealing with marriage are state law issues actually. 00:59:06 I generally get pissed off when people say "X is useless!" to mean "X isn't perfect", it happens a lot in discussions of computer security and things like that 00:59:13 it's ok kmc 00:59:15 yeah, that's not what I meant >_< more like, it loses a lot of it 00:59:16 there there 00:59:16 sorry 00:59:19 ok 00:59:23 I should have phrased it better 00:59:30 Green card, IRS, and federal employment benefits are, like, it 00:59:42 pikhq_: you should come visit canada, get hitched, and leave 01:00:04 Sneaky. 01:00:05 "You managed to upload an image so large that Danbooru 2's thumbnailing job gets whacked by the OOM killer" in other news 01:00:15 well done 01:00:59 Bike: was it a specially-crafted compressed image or something 01:01:00 the whole bypassing-the-problem-by-being-trans thing is interesting though 01:01:06 like I know a couple of two gay men who have been married for like, 15 years 01:01:12 which I think is longer than any state has allowed gay marriage 01:01:26 shachaf: apparently unintentional! 01:01:35 how much of a compression ratio can you get 01:01:49 oh, it's animated. 01:02:16 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:02:18 13 MB. 01:02:19 I know a couple that got divorced after one of them transitioned. That was interesting. 01:02:20 though it's maybe not as totally ridiculous as the thing that some lesbians apparently did back in the 70s, where one was younger than 18 and one was older, and they'd have the older one adopt the younger one to get legal/tax benefits @_@ 01:02:30 uh. 01:02:30 Poor guy, getting asked if he was the wife. 01:03:15 (note that the legal status is that the legal gender status *at the time* is what matters. If it was heterosexual and is now gay that's just fine!) 01:03:34 yeah, it's kind of an odd legal loophole 01:03:44 you're a peach, US legal system. an incomprehensible peach 01:06:34 I wonder what happens if you have a gay marriage in a state and then it becomes straight? 01:07:33 I... that... I have no idea 01:07:41 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 01:07:47 *There's* a confusing edge case for ya. 01:07:57 iowa just implodes 01:08:01 the laws clearly need to be refactored or something 01:08:06 so that gender is no longer assumed to be const 01:08:20 Or from the set {Male, Female} 01:08:46 does gender need to be mentioned 01:08:52 Not generally. 01:09:12 I... guess it matters for people who are exclusively andro- or gynophilic? 01:09:13 http://qntm.org/gay bla bla 01:10:01 pan is the best orientation 01:10:19 Yuh. 01:10:26 Or none at all, I suppose. 01:11:37 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:11:55 gender: basically a roman surface 01:11:58 ??? 01:12:07 which one's the roman surface 01:12:18 's non-orientable and looks dumb 01:12:27 Bike: I am glaring at that author for thinking "asexual" is a sex 01:12:30 <.<;; 01:12:32 quantum gay 01:12:37 a quantum of gay 01:12:40 -!- tertu has joined. 01:13:36 Fiora: presumably as in "lacks sexual organs" 01:13:49 \rainbow{biology} 01:14:36 i don't think i remember the usual term 01:14:53 wikipedia doesn't have "list of sexes". imo, rage 01:15:21 * Fiora pulls up "sex is a social construction to justify gender" infographicdiagram, etc, etc 01:16:04 yeah i know the problems with "lacks sexual organs" as a meaningful designation too 01:16:11 peoplescience is hard 01:16:21 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:16:26 Fiora: I am pretty sure he thought "asexual" was just a natural construction for "devoid of (biological) sex". 01:16:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphous_perversity my god. 01:16:39 what actually isn't a social construct 01:16:46 pants 01:16:52 the only Real objects 01:17:05 pikhq_: yeah, I know, I'm not being toooo serious 01:17:18 i think i should pick up a psychoanalysis textbook sometime just for the humor value 01:18:14 * Bike looks up Category:Sexual_orientation, runs into "autovampirism" 01:18:33 sucking the oil from cars 01:18:34 in b4 category theory joke 01:18:36 And obviously he has the weird gender-sex conflation in place. 01:19:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_asexuals i think this category needs some work 01:19:31 * Fiora looks, doesn't see sherlock holmes 01:19:50 see, exactly. 01:19:51 because he was gay for watson, duh 01:20:01 or that chick in the spacecoyote comic. 01:20:03 the problem is it's usually not explicit in canon >_< 01:20:10 * Bike ends mental list of fictional asexuals 01:20:29 like sophie is sort of fan-assumed to be aromantic but.... 01:21:15 pilot! 01:21:47 this reminds me that i should take a botany class because i have very little idea of how plants fuck and it seems fascinating 01:22:07 the guy i voted for for senate won 01:22:15 from twelve? 01:22:15 that means i win too right 01:22:21 no 01:22:30 if twelve wins we all win 01:22:34 imo no 01:22:38 -!- Phantom___Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 01:23:20 "(biology) Having no distinct sex, having no sexual organs." aha there we go 01:23:28 now i just need to figure out a less ambiguous term 01:23:33 kmc: it means you have superpowers 01:23:39 kmc: vote for me next time hth 01:23:40 this is CLEARLY not a doomed effort because sex is unambiguous 01:24:32 Even friggin' biological notions of sex are complicated. 01:24:44 neuter....? though that's the name of a gender too :/ 01:24:50 "A statuette of Aphroditus in the anasyromenos pose. The ancient Greeks and Romans believed the pose had apotropaic magical power." this is going well. 01:25:02 Bike: http://pbfcomics.com/146/ 01:25:15 yeah but like 01:25:22 hermaphroditic plants?? what's the deal 01:25:27 i don't know the deal. 01:25:41 actually I kind of wonder like... why did animals ever stop being hermaphrodites 01:25:50 imo read about sexual reproduction in fungi 01:26:03 like, isn't it more efficient to have two animals mate, and then they can *both* carry children, and stuff 01:26:07 Fiora: that's one of the more old and controversial questions in evolutionary biology. 01:26:08 like snails 01:26:21 right :< 01:26:27 i mean, it's interesting. 01:26:29 hey that's a really good question, why do so many species have two sexes? 01:26:58 I'm guessing it comes from the whole chromosomal thing? I mean like there's only a couple sex chromosome systems, right? 01:27:03 As opposed to more, or as opposed to no differentiation? 01:27:07 Fiora: There's several. 01:27:15 Shit, there's two or three in the mammals. 01:27:22 there's... ZW, XY, X0, and temperature? 01:27:27 there's also sexual differentiation systems not based on chromosomes 01:27:33 Those are the common ones, Fiora. 01:27:33 Fiora: hey, do you want to be on `pbflist!! 01:27:40 temperature for example isn't exclusive of ZW 01:27:41 "On November 3, 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a female Boa constrictor that can produce offspring without mating and, through such asexual reproduction, produced 22 female offspring" O_O 01:27:47 or, may i suggest......`pbflistdeluxe 01:27:53 woah 01:28:06 "The platypus has a ten-chromosome–based system, where the chromosomes form a multivalent chain in male meiosis, segregating into XXXXX-sperm and YYYYY-sperm, with XY-equivalent chromosomes at one end of this chain and the ZW-equivalent chromosomes at the other end." 01:28:09 Fiora: you didn't know about that? we've known about [iforgettheword] for years 01:28:16 also yes platypi are fucking nuts 01:28:21 ZW?? 01:28:21 platypi are crazy 01:28:29 ZW is used by birds 01:28:33 and some other animals 01:28:34 katla: sex chromosomes. 01:28:35 And many reptiles. 01:28:43 Ugh, what's the damn word. 01:28:51 For females reproducing w/o insemination 01:28:53 zzo38 should design some biological systems imo 01:28:55 parthenogenesis 01:29:00 yes. thank you. 01:29:03 some reptiles can do it yeah 01:29:15 if you poke a frog egg with a pin it will start to grow into a haploid frog (??) 01:29:27 haha those experiments are the best. 01:29:35 "how can we fuck up frog eggs... oh. oh wow" 01:29:46 Sex determination is best described as "complex". 01:29:56 Too bad the woman who started them died young :( 01:30:15 oh, parthanogenesis, that's the thing 01:30:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnemidophorus_neomexicanus oh woowwww 01:30:42 it's an all-female species 01:30:48 imo, matriarchy 01:30:54 ah yeah that's the lizard i was thinking of. 01:30:59 I think they were on Bill Nye or something. 01:31:12 But yeah. Many species have two distinct sexes simply because sexual reproduction works based off of combination of male and female gametes. 01:32:01 the two mating types of yeast are conventionally known as "a" and "α" 01:32:15 lol. 01:32:28 * pikhq_ blinks 01:32:29 looks like ascomycetes typically have two mating types, while basidiomycetes can have thousands 01:32:31 Oh huh, there's a word specifically for two-sex reproduction, "anisogamy" 01:32:39 There's a protozoan with 7 sexes. 01:32:46 7... sexes....? wow 01:32:58 thousands beats 7 01:33:06 there's also different kinds of anisogamy based on which cells are motile. 01:33:07 woohoo 01:33:14 kmc for president of mushroom sex 01:33:33 It has two separate nuclei. 01:33:49 yeah 01:33:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basidiomycete#Smuts 01:33:51 fungi do that too 01:33:54 Smuts 01:33:55 there are basidiomycetes called "smuts" 01:34:09 I I just I can't 01:34:13 when the haploid mycelia meet, if the mating types are compatible, the nuclei spread out and you get cells with one from each 01:34:37 and it's that organism which can produce spores and a fruiting body 01:34:40 Ah, yeah, corn smut. :P 01:34:40 wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee mushrooms 01:34:48 Fiora: what i'm getting out of this is that i should refer to people without sex as "anamorphs" because everybody liked that series 01:34:50 kmc likes his mushrooms XD 01:35:06 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 01:35:18 Bike: I think the only thing I remember about that book series was the cute falcon boy 01:35:25 and there were like, blue horses 01:35:28 with psychic powers 01:35:32 i never read it. 01:35:47 man sometimes i forget how fucking amazing zoology is 01:35:54 Distinguishing characteristic: Accordion-like extensible thorax 01:36:32 Umbrella-like scales at each end 01:36:51 -!- AProperNoun has changed nick to Sgeo. 01:36:52 wow that one's name means "corset bearer" this is a pretty sexy... oh yeah i remember these things now. 01:37:02 I downloaded an obscure NOAA manual just so i could get high res art of them 01:37:16 I enjoyed Animorphs, though I was young. 01:37:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pliciloricus_enigmatus.jpg i mean, can you blame me? imo, no. 01:37:26 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:37:31 Fiora: Yeah, the Andalites. Fucking weird blue horse-men. 01:37:44 "hello, i'm an old one" 01:37:52 -!- tertu has joined. 01:38:19 -!- Phantom___Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 01:38:47 "Mouth surrounded by invertible tentacles" is going on my grindr profile, i think 01:38:58 til: bike has a grindr profile 01:39:14 I do not. Should I? 01:39:17 i have six, one for each appendage 01:40:16 What, how are there only six phyla of fungi. 01:40:26 fuck you taxonomists 01:41:13 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:41:17 is it wrong if I just want to like watch you squee over biology and zoology stuff for hours 01:41:18 Oh, an entire phylum is just for "uh i dunno". 01:41:33 Fiora: it's pretty boring to see. i just sit on the computer flicking through tabs 01:41:41 -!- tertu has joined. 01:42:00 maybe it would be entertaining if i like juggled at the same time. 01:42:06 it's fun watching you from here :< 01:42:12 «The Fungi imperfecti or imperfect fungi, also known as Deuteromycota, are fungi which do not fit into the commonly established taxonomic classifications of fungi that are based on biological species concepts or morphological characteristics of sexual structures because their sexual form of reproduction has never been observed; hence the name "imperfect fungi." » nevermind, this rules 01:42:34 i wanna be one of these when i grow up 01:42:45 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 01:42:48 Fiora: I spend a lot of time doing that. 01:42:54 yeah sometimes they have observed the sexually reproducing phase and the asexual phase but they don't know it's the same species 01:42:58 I date a biologist. :P 01:43:03 costs a lot of money to sequence the genome of every random fungus you find 01:43:23 "For example, the ubiquitous and industrially important mold, Aspergillus niger, has no known sexual cycle." wait. fro real 01:43:27 I think fungi are kind of the neglected kingdom when it comes to research money 01:43:42 that's literally mold. we don't know how mold reproduces??? 01:44:14 kmc: it's kind of funny when we did that with animals (not knowing they're different forms of the same organism) 01:45:23 wtf how is that not known 01:45:34 "In the heyday of the opium trade, chandu opium, which was meant to be smoked, was made by long term fermentation of A. niger and other molds on raw opium." I... 01:46:20 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:46:25 katla: well we know they do asexual sporing. 01:47:31 how do you guys all know so much biology btw 01:47:42 reading wikipedia articles constantly 01:47:54 * Fiora doesn't actually know any biology 01:48:34 katla: Read Wikipedia, talk about neat things found from said reading with my girlfriend. 01:48:38 (who is a biologist) 01:48:46 obviously i need to work on the second part. 01:48:50 Clearly. 01:49:25 I also have an amazing ability to shove random trivia in my head. 01:49:26 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:49:49 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 01:49:52 My coworkers are a little stunned that I can just talk in-depth about the archictectures of old game consoles. 01:49:59 I guess I absorb some things by talking with bike 01:50:04 or more like listening to him ramble about cool bio things 01:50:16 and I guess he probably absorbs tiny bits of my incomprehensible cpu nonsense or physics 01:50:29 the shotgun slurry approach to learning 01:51:03 Yup, that's me. Try to learn everything by gradually approaching mastery of all subjects simultaneously. 01:52:09 i like how the isogamy article has sections (sexions) on biology and also anthropology 01:52:18 sexions? 01:52:40 i started typing "sex" when writing "sections" because of the conversation. 01:52:42 i'm such a perv man 01:53:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evolsex-dia2a.svg oh, cool graph. 01:53:20 picture. thing. 01:53:33 bike really is a perv, gosh, he's probably undressing those arthropods with his eyes. gosh, what a creep! 01:53:57 so, fruiting bodies, you come here often? 01:54:16 Mmmm, perversion. 01:54:23 * pikhq_ is a definite pervosexual 01:55:53 -!- tertu has joined. 01:56:10 what does that even mean o_O 01:57:07 stay away from me pikhq!! i have nematocysts and i'm not afraid to use them 01:57:20 http://www.alessonislearned.com/index.php?comic=17 It means I read this. 01:57:41 i still can't believe that updated again. 01:58:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:58:48 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:01:15 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:03:21 -!- katla has quit (Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!). 02:06:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:10:22 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 02:41:21 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:41:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:41:57 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:42:10 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:42:20 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:50:06 kmc, how's it working for pretty much the only web browser that exists, Mozilla 5.0? 02:51:37 I'm sure there was a better way to make that joke 02:59:04 i'm sure there was a not-incomprehensible way to make that joke 02:59:25 I heard shachaf is like, a total expert on being non-incomprehensible 03:00:27 Fiora: What, you're an intuitionist now? 03:00:33 ???? 03:00:53 "non-incomprehensible" 03:00:57 oh. you're being incomprehensible 03:01:00 I see 03:01:03 I guess kmc was the intuitionist here. 03:01:04 ? 03:01:12 Why do you keep saying I'm incomprehensible? 03:01:36 e-elliott said he felt that way toob ut..... sorry 03:01:44 do you like not see how that conversation works 03:01:55 Bike: ? 03:02:07 "[incomprehensible joke]" "Why do you keep saying I'm incomprehensible?" 03:03:05 Fiora: Intuitionistic logic is logic where "not (not x)" doesn't necessarily imply "x". 03:03:38 You said not-incomprehensible. I thought it was a joke. But it turns out to be kmc's joke. 03:06:48 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:09:34 it wasn't a joke, it was double negation for emphasis 03:09:53 if i said "i'm sure there was a comprehensible way to make that joke" it wouldn't have made the point as strongly that Sgeo's joke was incomprehensible 03:10:48 true enough 03:11:05 Was trying to make a joke about the ubiquity of Mozilla/5.0 03:11:05 not-not-false enough 03:11:11 Sgeo: in user agents? 03:11:13 yes 03:11:15 ok 03:11:25 Fiora: Am I actually more incomprehensible than other people in here? 03:11:28 well I haven't started working for Mozilla yet 03:12:24 shachaf: I... sorry I guess it kind of feels like that sometime... 03:12:33 elliott told me not to worry because it was normal to get confused... 03:14:42 How do I ask you a question without you feeling accused (or whatever it is)? 03:14:48 shachaf makes a lot of oblique jokes 03:14:59 Anyway, I suspect elliott was joking when he said that, though I can't say for sure. 03:15:14 There are other kind of logic too, other than intuitionistic logic. 03:15:31 like non-intuitionistic logic and non-non-intuitionistic logic 03:15:33 I thought he was trying to ocomfort me... 03:15:36 now I'm confused... 03:16:17 yeah he was. 03:16:19 or explain. 03:16:48 I think something like "don't worry, it's normal to get confused when shachaf says something" is a sort of friendly way of making fun of me... But maybe I'm the one who doesn't comprehend! 03:16:55 There is modal logic, too. 03:21:38 people 03:21:49 can't live with 'em, can't dismantle their bodies for trace amounts of iron to make paperclips 03:22:28 shame imo 03:22:41 differently-shaped-and-sized bags of mostly oxygen? 03:23:00 People are up in arms about Dilbert 03:23:03 mostly oxygen? I guess so, since we're mostly water 03:23:06 The RSS feed no longer displays the comic 03:23:12 * Bike considers referring to cars as "bags of mostly steel" 03:23:16 `addquote People are up in arms about Dilbert 03:23:20 1062) People are up in arms about Dilbert 03:23:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body 03:23:27 http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/ 03:23:32 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-06-25/ 03:23:32 uh nsfw i guess 03:23:33 we're apparentlyabout 65% oxygen by mass? 03:23:39 cool 03:23:46 atomically, i assume? 03:23:56 yeah 03:24:12 also that makes me think of Guess Which Anime, >_> 03:24:14 huh. women have less water/oxygen than men 03:24:25 so THAT'S how you can tell 03:24:37 i have oxydar, man 03:24:50 does this mean that a really thourough SRS involves oxygen supplements too 03:25:01 I... I'd guess it's just the difference in fat % 03:25:10 that makes sense 03:25:14 and probably not anything else really 03:25:29 I,I % 03:25:38 is there a compose combo for that 03:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 03:25:58 oh that's fullwidth % 03:26:00 yes 03:26:00 so p. not 03:26:04 i just switch to japanese mode for fullwidth characters 03:26:13 M-x weeaboo 03:26:27 fullwidth characters are my waifu 03:26:32 ‱ 03:26:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:26:39 :o 03:26:42 > 0/000 03:26:42 I thought your waifu was like. some strange fungus 03:26:43 NaN 03:26:45 is that a halfwidth thousandth 03:26:45 キガン 03:26:57 メカィステル 03:26:59 help 03:27:03 Fiora: LOVE KNOWS NO NUMBERS! Except if it's the euler-mascheroni constant which is also my waifu 03:27:21 the first one is my name? 03:27:27 and the second iS? 03:27:29 ideally they're both your name 03:27:33 oh i see 03:27:34 or the feigenbaum constants. either/or 03:27:53 Kigan Meka~isuteru 03:28:17 that's p. kawaii 03:28:22 lexande has official arabic and cyrillic and chinese spellings of his name 03:28:28 because various border officials asked for it 03:29:09 Bike: though apparently by #mm rules a waifu is something assigned to you by others 03:29:19 yea 03:29:22 what's #mm 03:29:24 what's a waifu 03:29:26 luckily i can just say stupid shit and nobody objeccts 03:29:31 how am i the incomprehensible one hth 03:29:33 Fiora: (don't tell him what #mm is) 03:29:43 kmc: nice. 03:29:53 more public figures should have official transliterations 03:30:07 лександе 03:30:09 aлександеr 03:30:20 um, okay I won't 03:30:25 help :'( 03:30:39 i don't think lexande is a public figure 03:30:44 also i should convince him to come back to this channel 03:30:50 confession: i forget who lexande is? 03:30:57 Alexander Rapp 03:31:00 good name 03:31:00 friend of mine since long time ago 03:31:02 -!- lexande has joined. 03:31:07 hi∼ 03:31:07 hexande 03:31:12 kmc you wizard 03:31:18 lexande is the wizard here 03:31:32 lexande: how do you spell 'lexande' in ge'ez 03:31:33 wizards' noses tingle when you talk about them 03:32:17 is that so 03:32:30 how is kmc a wizard? 03:32:44 For summoning you, I think. 03:32:54 what if lexande has summoning sickness 03:33:06 Then you're not a very good wizard, clearly. 03:33:11 :( 03:33:16 i don't think that's how it works 03:33:17 kmc's a great wizard, imo. 03:33:22 zzo38 would know 03:33:25 elliott: back me up on this. 03:33:58 oh this is a magic: the gathering thing 03:34:12 anyway the transliterations of my name into cyrillic and arabic were chosen for me by russian and sudanese customs/immigration officials respectively 03:34:27 you travel a lot? 03:34:46 in b4 http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~arapp/map.html http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~arapp/citiesvisited.html 03:35:08 http://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1h1ru6/assuming_certificate_authorities_are_untrusted/caqc0lc 03:35:20 thkmc 03:35:23 That's pretty travelly. 03:37:15 there tend to be pretty canonical transliterations of "Alexander" into most languages 03:37:29 mm, it's super old, i guess. 03:37:32 thanks to a certain ambitious macedonian 03:37:32 iskandar al-akbar 03:37:33 Also that one guy. 03:37:41 i don't like the chinese one though 03:37:51 because who ever heard of a four-character first name in chinese 03:38:10 I've heard of almost no first names in Chinese, admittedly 03:38:34 clearly they should have gone for a semantic translation, i bet "defender of man" is shorter 03:40:09 the characters are something like, asia history mountain large 03:40:32 thats a pretty good name 03:41:32 yàlìshāndà 03:41:50 亚历山大 03:42:03 mnoqy is p. g. name 03:42:38 but i figure i can get by with the last two, which also makes it a lot easier to write 03:44:35 but i think i'm stuck with the surname 拉普 since i found a people's daily article referring to my father with that surname 03:46:50 as for ge'ez, uh probably ለከሰነደረ or ለከሰነደ 03:48:51 sweet 03:57:58 I have put my own name into Japanese by translating "Aaron" normally but translating "Black" by the meaning instead. 03:58:43 (I have been told that probably the more proper meaning to use for translation is "blacksmith", but I just used "black" instead.) 03:58:50 アーロンlike that? 03:59:00 Fiora: Yes, like that. 04:24:47 -!- augur has joined. 05:04:59 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:06:12 someone transliterate my name to japanese please 05:06:35 シャハフ 05:07:14 or シャチャフ but I don't think that would get pronounced right 05:16:13 共同カボチャ 05:17:26 zzo38: is this you http://www.aaronblack.com/ 05:35:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:36:14 Hi 05:36:24 Why am I awake 05:36:59 @time Taneb 05:37:00 Local time for Taneb is Wed Jun 26 06:36:59 05:37:11 have you slept yet 05:39:23 Yes 05:59:16 coppro: No 05:59:24 There are a few other people with the same name too 05:59:36 (Even if you look in Wikipedia you will see it) 06:00:39 Should there be a rule in Pokemon game that if if you use the attack to switch the item with an opponent, and one of them has some mail, that it should display the contents of the mail to the other player before the attack fails? 06:26:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:03:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:05:46 If the probability of some event is 200%, and then after that probability is calculated you will toss a coin, and if it comes up heads then you will cancel it, then does that make the event certain? 07:06:14 What is a probability of 200%? 07:06:47 Twice as much as a probability of 100%, of course. 07:07:08 What does that mean? 07:08:16 That is what it means! 07:08:43 Isn't it? 07:09:00 these are new and strange probability axioms, zzo. 07:09:52 They are new? I thought they are the same as the other one except that I wrote "200%" and so on. 07:11:42 you can't have events with p > 1 under kolmogorov axioms. 07:12:03 Perhaps I didn't explain very well. This might be better: There is a device that has a 200% chance of functioning if it is activated. You will toss a fair coin, and if it comes up tails you will activate the device and if it is heads then you won't activate it. From these premises, is it certain that the device will function? 07:12:33 seriously, i just see "200%" and stop reading, what does that mean. 07:14:00 Can you explain what a probability of something means in general rather than in specific? 07:16:33 ok, well, the probability axioms go like this. 07:17:15 first you have a set called the "sample space", which is stuff that can happen. you define a sigma-algebra on that, the "events", subsets of the sample space. and you have a probability measure : event -> [0,1] 07:18:36 the first axiom is that the probability measure is always positive (implied by my type signature but w/e). the second is that P(the whole sample space) = 1. the third is that P(countable union of events) = sum P(each event in the union) 07:19:29 this implies for instance that A subset B -> P(A) <= P(B), and along with the second axiom this makes "200% probability" incoherent. 07:19:31 disjoint union right 07:19:35 so, if you mean something else, you should explain that. 07:19:39 disjoint union, yeah. 07:20:06 Yes, I can see how, but what you omit the first axiom and type signature? 07:20:53 Anyways, I think the first axiom is wrong even in ordinary probabilities because it could be zero which doesn't count as a positive number. 07:21:40 it's "nonnegative", yes 07:22:04 or uh 07:22:11 yeah 07:22:14 Then you should write that, if that is what you mean! 07:22:21 i didn't write it!! bike did!! 07:22:33 I don't mean you personally. 07:25:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:34:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:40:34 -!- carado has joined. 07:44:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:08:42 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:25:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:25:36 status: eating cheetos out of a bowl using chopsticks 08:27:44 Do you do that so you don't get dirty? 08:28:20 yes 08:31:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:03:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:51:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:52:16 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:00:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:04:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:05:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:13:48 -!- carado has joined. 10:59:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:26:17 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:57:41 -!- mtve has joined. 12:04:56 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 12:08:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:14:26 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 13:18:50 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:28:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:32:19 -!- tswett_ has joined. 13:33:03 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:54:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:08:16 -!- aloril has joined. 14:32:55 -!- conehead has joined. 14:37:36 -!- sacje has joined. 14:41:03 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:45:43 -!- atriq has joined. 14:48:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:52:32 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett. 15:35:46 pikhq_: you just won, congrats 15:55:59 -!- Bike has joined. 15:56:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:58:39 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:01:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:06:07 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:09:51 -!- conehead has joined. 16:33:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:46:30 pikhq_: when are you getting married? :P 17:02:19 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:15:17 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:21:09 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:30:23 i don't know why i did the axiom thing. that was dumb and sucked. fyi. 17:31:26 what did you do 17:33:23 texpocalypse 17:33:50 are you talking about the axiom CAS, or... 17:34:35 no i just responded to zzo with quotation instead of asking him what the heck he meatn 17:34:59 oh that thing. 17:35:30 The Thing 17:37:12 It doesn't necessarily imply that the individual events are not more than one if you are using divergent series, though, I think. 17:37:45 (If you do it so that some collections cannot be separated from others) 17:39:36 Also, if you make up the probability of a random number 0 to 1, the total probability will still be 1 even though all of the individual number being exactly is 0, so it still doesn't work. 17:57:21 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:57:27 "Each of the linear spaces l_2, c_0, c, m, and R^\infty (in that order) is a proper subspace of the next one" well i think i have a new record for shitty math identifiers 18:03:52 If you want to make up a Famicom cartridge with expansion audio, I think that other than the standard chips included in NROM cartridges, only a AY-3-8910 is added; it will work if you connect it to the PPU address bus. You can even get bank switching if you do this, without needing any other logic for bank switching. 18:04:59 (However, you will not be able to change the music or the bank during rendering.) 18:34:12 -!- itsy has joined. 18:34:31 hi 18:34:42 hi 18:34:48 hi elliott :-) 18:39:58 * itsy considers writing a worm to seek out lost files... Stuff that's disappeared from the net, but must be on someone's computer somewhere. 18:41:17 -!- surma has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:50:27 If you write a report about what files you are looking for, that could also help a bit. 18:55:41 big US Supreme Court rulings today in favor of gay marriage 18:57:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:05:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:07:24 also the texas abortion bill died, woo. 19:07:41 Does anyone here use an FTP search engine? Which one? 19:08:16 yeah, after a brief attempt to save it by brazen lying in front of hundreds of thousands of people 19:08:53 itsy: What exactly are you looking for 19:09:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:09:26 we have procedures, kmc. making someone stand and talk for 13 hours and then stopping time is perfectly reasonable 19:10:45 AnotherTest: some old Core War stuff which was mentioned on Usenet about 20 years ago! 19:11:04 geez. good luck with that. 19:11:41 itsy: have you checked the usenet archives? 19:12:01 or do you have the message, just not the files 19:12:33 AnotherTest: I've just got the messages, which contain an ftp link (now broken). 19:12:44 btw new band name: Intrinsically Rhythmogenic Modules 19:13:04 By the way, is there a way to download an entire Usenet group? All messages dating back 20+ years? :-) 19:13:20 probably 19:13:28 aren't they all on google? 19:13:33 or some of them 19:14:27 itsy: what's the FTP link? 19:14:35 They're on Google. But I want them here :-) 19:14:53 well, write a script to download stuff from google 19:16:03 -!- calamari has joined. 19:16:34 itsy: so, what's the link? 19:17:04 AnotherTest: one is ftp:soda.berkeley.edu/pub/corewar/ incoming/optimapc.exe 19:19:34 http://web.archive.org/web/19980110070358/http://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/ 19:19:42 might get you somewhere 19:19:55 you might need to pick a later date though 19:20:12 (not sure what time this is from) 19:20:47 hm, doesn't seem to be saved anyway :( 19:21:40 http://www.pnas.org/content/110/26/10465.full lol. 19:22:15 itsy: what about contacting them? 19:22:24 -!- itsy has left. 19:22:33 -!- itsy has joined. 19:23:23 Tried contacting first :-) No luck. I didn't realise wayback archived ftp. 19:23:32 they don't 19:23:44 that's the web archive of their own ftp :) 19:24:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 19:25:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:56:56 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:05:18 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:11:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:12:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 20:12:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:13:53 *sigh* turns out screen ruins the use of the pgup/pgdn keys on my numpad (turning them into 9 and 3 keys regardless of my laptop's general setting), which are of course the most sanely placed versions on this keyboard. 20:15:00 (that's screen on debian started remotely via putty on windows, fwiw) 20:15:28 oerjan: try tmux hth 20:17:57 ooh that's even installed 20:18:48 try dtachhth 20:18:51 s/dtach/dtach / 20:19:02 dtach is nice 20:19:23 oerjan: I stopped at "ruins" since that statement is always true 20:19:49 dtach is _not_ installed yet though... 20:20:05 coppro: OKAY 20:20:45 dtach is great because it doesn't do anything. 20:20:50 I know whatever terminal problem I have it's not dtach's fault. 20:21:00 oerjan: btw, that sounds like a putty misconfiguration 20:21:04 check you don't have "nethack mode" or whatever on 20:21:11 or maybe I'm misremembering 20:21:24 I... I don't think screen even knows about your numpads and whatnot 20:21:45 elliott: it's set at "Normal" also pgdn/pgup works fine if _not_ using screen. 20:21:48 Probably something wrong with your terminal emulator. 20:22:16 Lumpio-: screen always emulates vt100, afaiu 20:22:49 Well I don't see any difference with pageup/down between screen and not screen 20:22:50 oerjan: you can change a config setting to make it poorly emulate something else 20:22:52 and TERM=xterm outside it... 20:22:58 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye). 20:23:02 (Checked via cat|xxd) 20:23:03 instead of poorly emulating vt100 20:23:35 Lumpio-: btw the _other_ pgup/pgdn keys on top of the keyboard which are hard to reach, work fine. 20:24:04 yes I tried both actual pagedown and numpad pagedown 20:24:08 No difference whatsoever on my setup. 20:24:19 oerjan: screen's unicode support is broken hth 20:24:22 so you should use tmux 20:24:44 shachaf: OKAY (i did use the -U option fwiw) 20:24:53 oerjan: still broken hth 20:25:08 oerjan: (For 4-byte sequences, i.e. anything not in the BMP.) 20:28:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:33:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:34:06 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:40:36 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:42:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:46:00 "Dear xxxx, I was just wondering if you still have a copy of xxxx.zip which you uploaded 22 years ago? Thanks" <- Worth a try :-) Luckily I found a current email address. 20:48:21 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 20:58:49 Does anyone know what the first 2 dimensional programming language was? 20:59:13 not befunge? 20:59:31 I seem to recall one before befunge 20:59:44 Biota! 20:59:48 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Biota 20:59:51 oh, yeah. 21:02:50 Thanks, that was the one I was looking for. There were a couple of other before Befunge too. 21:13:28 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:14:46 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:22:13 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:22:21 -!- bresilsalumbizim has joined. 21:23:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:24:42 hey!! 21:24:53 turns out there was a putty option too 21:25:05 `relcome bresilsalumbizim 21:25:08 anyway, trying tmux 21:25:09 ​bresilsalumbizim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:25:43 hey!! what's up 21:25:59 everything at once 21:26:13 like what 21:26:19 befunge 21:26:34 hahaha ok 21:27:35 although admittedly it would also be nice if the wireless were stable enough that putty didn't disconnect all the time. 21:27:47 kmc: more on that thing i linked you a billion years ago: http://storify.com/camp2013/learning-learning-learning "Led a great session on investigation for #ttcCamp13 this morning at this rate the participants will have brought down a government by Friday" 21:28:02 oerjan: Get mosh 21:28:29 Has some intelligence for laggy connections + most importantly survives disconnects 21:29:00 what the fuck is this???? 21:29:16 Lumpio-: i'm on windows 8 hth 21:29:21 what the fuck is what 21:29:36 every thing 21:29:44 oerjan: I think you can get LInux or something free from the internet 21:29:48 hold on I'll find a download link 21:29:54 lots of things are fuck 21:29:55 imo 21:30:42 am using macintosh sooo fuck linux lol 21:31:31 Lumpio-: shut up hth 21:31:42 I don't even hth 21:32:05 heheheh... 21:32:21 what's a hth 21:32:29 `? hth 21:32:31 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 21:32:50 dafuq 21:33:09 where u gays coming from? 21:33:17 Lumpio-: i am recently quite convinced that i am sufficiently cursed that changing to linux will only bring me a different but equally obnoxious set of annoyances. 21:33:28 bresilsalumbizim: *guys hth 21:33:45 (although yes, there are _some_ gays here too.) 21:34:02 hmmm...i will love to see the 21:34:28 i am from a computer 21:34:38 halp 21:34:44 i am to a computer. 21:35:02 and how can i help? 21:35:36 be computer 21:36:02 hehehe nop am a parson not a computer 21:36:29 i don't think we get many parsons here 21:36:53 then u have one. 21:37:54 I dunno about parsons but I could probably hook you up with some parsley 21:37:56 http://i.imgur.com/ZFfRqsz.jpg 21:39:00 -!- nooodl has left ("Leaving"). 21:39:24 and what am i going to use it for? u punk ass 21:40:04 you could spread it on food hth 21:40:29 Maybe mix it up with some lard 21:40:32 In a bowl 21:40:43 people do that? 21:40:48 i dont need that shiit 21:41:03 bresilsalumbizim: hey eat up your greens 21:41:35 oerjan: you should op kmc so he can ban this guy. 21:41:59 oerjan: you should op elliott so he can op kmc so he can ban this guy 21:42:04 also acceptable 21:42:06 elliott: what, already? 21:42:17 Bike: sounds like a plan. 21:42:29 oerjan: well have you noticed he's joined the channel and insulted people a lot and not said anything on-topic, hth. 21:42:58 why dont u come and eat it with me? 21:43:01 elliott: well i guess technically you are correct, as always 21:43:08 it's just boring here 21:43:08 (except with some maths) 21:44:16 bresilsalumbizim: are you really from burundi 21:44:27 yes i am 21:44:31 why? 21:44:42 not many from africa here 21:44:54 ooh!! ok that's why 21:44:58 we have a south african don't we 21:45:07 hiato 21:45:14 yes, but he's not here very often 21:46:13 i think he passed by a couple weeks ago 21:46:23 so where you guys from? 21:46:30 hexham 21:46:38 mostly europe and north america 21:46:56 oh!! that's cool.. 21:47:27 oerjan: I think you mean mostly Helsinki and Hexham 21:47:32 that too. 21:47:42 Hey, Hexham's in Europe 21:47:51 And I presume Helsinki is in North America 21:48:02 um... I have bad news about Finland for you, Taneb. 21:48:14 i dint know that ths app wound work so i just tryed 21:48:37 Did helsinki.fi just move it's user pages? 21:50:24 well it is pretty well known that finland is close to russia, and far from japan 21:51:38 -!- bresilsalumbizim has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:33 elliott: see no need for bans hth 22:01:08 oerjan: now about that semen_dickman guy in the logs... 22:02:39 nanana i cant hear you 22:02:58 "US got NSA leaker Edward Snowden's middle name wrong, says Hong Kong" 22:03:18 oerjan: well finland is close to russia and russia is close to japan, so finland can't be that far off 22:03:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:03:46 shachaf: russia is not transitive hth 22:04:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:04:41 oerjan: what about the trans-siberian railway 22:04:44 sounds like transit to me 22:05:11 i'm pretty sure that doesn't go to japan though 22:05:34 indeed 22:05:38 * lexande hilights on transit and trains 22:05:55 wow you really are a kmcfrien 22:05:57 a trainspotter! 22:06:22 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:08:15 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:08:50 *Goodness* this DOMA strikedown makes things interesting/confusing. 22:09:17 how so? 22:09:36 It is now possible to be married on a federal level but not a state level. 22:09:55 ...it got turned upside down? :P 22:09:59 Yes. 22:10:11 gay marriage: the exact opposite of pot 22:10:28 sounds like a slogan 22:10:35 is marriage done on a federal level? I thought it was handled by states, and the law was about whether or not the federal government acknowledged it 22:10:40 it's kinda funny they didn't touch section 2 even though it looks like the opposite of article iv of the constitution 22:10:41 and there's the whole full faith and credit thing (?) 22:11:03 yeah, that. 22:11:16 Fiora: In this case, the fed. would acknowledge marriage done in any state. 22:11:27 But your state of residence might *not* acknowledge it. 22:11:41 So, from a federal POV you are married. 22:11:46 But not from your state's. 22:11:48 so like, if someone got married in california, some other state is legally allowed to not acknowledge it? 22:11:56 By DOMA, yes. 22:11:57 yeah, that's what section 2 does. 22:12:11 isn't that... a violation of article 4 section 1? @_@ 22:12:17 With... some oddities, like Oklahoma being forced to put an adoptive gay couple on a kid's birth certificate 22:12:25 because yeah it's pretty blatantly unconstitutional 22:12:40 what's with the "marriage tourism" thing then, where people visit another state to get married, how does that work 22:13:21 Fiora: People feel as though going through the "marriage" thing officializes the relationship. 22:13:58 and it probably will once the stupid thing dies, but. 22:14:27 huh it says in some places that they just outright struck the law, but some people are saying only section 3...? 22:14:32 Bike: I think they could sue for back taxes. :P 22:14:37 Fiora: It was only section 3. 22:14:51 Section 2 was simply not affected by this case. 22:14:58 (it was literally not at issue ever) 22:15:23 It'll probably get contested soon, what with being a *blatant* violation of full faith and credit. 22:15:37 supremecourt.gov doesn't work at all w/o www :( 22:15:58 anyway US v. windsor, right? http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-307_g2bh.pdf 22:16:08 Yes. 22:16:18 wikipedia said "Section 2, which allows states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages performed in states where such marriage is legal, was not at issue in the Windsor case but the entire Defense of Marriage Act was deemed unconstitutional" but I don't know 22:16:22 if anyone wants to see it themselves (i already read a supreme court decision this month, that's enough) 22:16:31 Fiora: i saw that too but it looked like a shitty edit. 22:16:34 yeah :< 22:16:34 i mean, you know. wikipedia. 22:16:54 Anyway the decision's there if you want to find out for real. 22:18:21 It's vague. 22:18:32 hooray. 22:18:37 It says "Section 2 was not at issue". But it also says "DOMA is unconstitutional." 22:20:23 maybe i should read it just to get infuriated at whatever scalia's dissent is (no) 22:23:15 http://www.theonion.com/articles/scalia-thomas-roberts-alito-suddenly-realize-they,32972/ 22:23:20 hey can someone join #Sup3rSa1y4n, i hear from #freenode that it auto-klines you. 22:23:33 note: I disclaim responsibility 22:24:54 https://twitter.com/BryanJFischer/status/350011942242500609 considering following this guy. 22:24:56 oh maybe not 22:25:48 natural marriage 22:26:08 no chemicals! all natural 22:26:12 natural marriage more like anti-nazi 5ever marriage 22:28:23 oops out of free onions 22:29:49 Chemicals are so horrible. I found out they have added DHMO to our food. 22:31:44 pikhq_: doesn't the full faith and credit clause say that Congress can regulate how full faith and credit is to be applied? 22:32:15 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:32:30 "the legislature shall, by general laws, prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings, shall be proved, and the effect which judgments, obtained in one state, shall have in another." 22:32:45 er that's a draft version, the final is "And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof." 22:32:48 kmc: No. 22:33:25 no? 22:34:16 -!- itsy has left. 22:34:22 That states that Congress may regulate how the acts of other states shall be demonstrated. 22:34:38 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:34:42 It does not give Congress any way to *prevent* the application. 22:35:37 Which is to say, Congress may regulate marriage certificates. The forms themselves. 22:36:02 this has been ruled in a previous court case? 22:37:05 This was the basis on which interracial marriage was legalized. 22:37:39 ok 22:38:10 ? was there a DOMA analogue? 22:38:50 there was never an anti-interracial-marriage DOMA 22:39:09 i think interracial marriages were always recognized where they were legal 22:39:15 whoa, I just realised who TeruFSX is. 22:41:09 ? 22:42:24 Oh man. The reason HK refused to extradite Snowden was because they got his middle name wrong (and one other thing, but) 22:42:31 they = the US, I mean 22:42:42 kmc: nomic 22:42:50 oh 22:42:55 Bike: best excuse 22:42:58 bike: That’s hilarious. 22:43:15 comments are good right here 22:43:35 Someone in the US government was intentionally sabotagin the extradition attempt. The empire is imploding from the inside. 22:43:36 Bike: the sass in their refusal was the best thing 22:43:41 inorite 22:56:03 -!- Zerker has joined. 23:15:11 http://heh.fi/tmp/1007.png 23:19:07 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 23:27:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:31:54 -!- heroux has joined. 23:40:46 2GB RAM. Running Eclipse and at least one other Java-based application from cygwin 23:40:57 Ctrl-C-ing TOOK A MINUTE OR TWO 23:41:05 Ctrl-C SHOULD NEVER TAKE THAT LONG 23:47:29 Muahahahah 23:50:32 How did I ever survive on 512 MB when I was younge? 23:50:34 younger? 23:50:55 software was simpler 23:51:11 And designed with 512 MiB in mind. 23:53:51 it's kind of interesting to see how like, game memory usages seem to have stopped growing at around ~2GB for the past few years 23:53:59 http://www.theonion.com/articles/register-number-one,32928/ 23:54:03 because if they went beyond that they'd have to drop 32-bit support, I think 23:54:05 A neutral character in a Kelly comic??? 23:54:17 when RAM is not as scarce, you can develop programs faster, make them less buggy and more secure, and more people can help 23:54:36 seems a reasonable tradeoff for buying $15 more of RAM imo 23:55:05 a lot of people cry "software bloat" but that's usually an arrogant, lazy non-explanation 23:56:17 I'm guessing with games a lot of it is taking advantage of the extra memory to store textures or the like, and keeping track of a really big world state 23:56:31 Eclipse and Tomcat servlets are not games 23:57:10 Sgeo: the only winning move is not to play 23:57:25 maybe it's because a lot of games are cross-platform and the Xbox 360 specs have been the same since 2005 23:57:30 it only has 512 MB of RAM (!) 23:57:45 I don't think I've played many games that are console ports recently 23:57:50 Tried using NetBeans. At least got an IDE that lagged only at sensible times 23:57:54 well. like. I have but I've played them on consoles <.< 23:58:05 Ctrl-C was still hell though 23:58:29 (the real reason we need lots of RAM though is so I can run ECM factoring on tswett's number) 23:58:38 i think sixty seconds to end a program being hell is a bit overblown, although maybe i'm saying that because i'm looking at a picture of a kid with his skull ripped up. 23:59:21 nine circles, Bike. 23:59:22 The PS3 has similar amounts of RAM. 23:59:26 The Wii has... less. 23:59:40 elliott: huh what 23:59:51 Bike: sixty seconds to end a program is just the first circle. 23:59:56 oh right 23:59:58 Fiora: here, I'll make it easier for you. 2013-06-27: 00:00:05 it's kind of interesting to see how like, game memory usages seem to have stopped growing at around ~2GB for the past few years 00:00:10 When you're used to a development cycle of constantly trying the program, seeing it work or not work, fixing and restarting, it could be annoying 00:00:14 One of the factors begins with 645041. 00:00:17 isn't that because of console memory limitations 00:00:34 Also, at least one of the factors ends with 1, 3, 7, or 9. 00:00:55 HEY HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT WAS MY NUMBER 00:01:12 (i can't say it's entirely a bad thing, i've heard stories about pc gaming in the early 2000s) 00:01:34 Phantom_Hoover: yeah but like, I'm thinking of PC games mostly and I notice they all run 32-bit binaries <.< 00:01:37 and cap out at 2GB or so 00:01:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:02:00 ... does... does knowing the first digits of a factor actually help any factoring algorithms? 00:02:17 Trial division. 00:02:27 "the best algorithm" 00:02:36 I'm pretty sure there's no small prime factors though 00:02:42 I mean, after running this much ECM on it 00:02:58 I would advise you not to try to factor it. 00:03:06 why not :< 00:03:22 Because it's extremely unlikely to work, if I've done my homework correctly. 00:03:28 I guess I might have done my homework incorrectly. 00:03:33 that's what the other 7 cores doing the general number field sieve are for! 00:03:42 The number you're trying to factor is 35 844 088 ... 908 841, right? 00:03:45 eighth core is otome games 00:03:50 yess~~ 00:03:59 Bike: is eighth, like, a helpful eight 00:04:06 yes 00:04:19 If you wish to learn what the factors are, I suggest bribing me. 00:04:22 ECM says it'll take about 8000 curves to catch an 80-digit factor, though I'm guessing it's the worst case and they're both 100 digits 00:04:31 wow that's actually how you spell eighth. weird 00:04:42 gj 00:05:06 How did you think it’s spelled? 00:05:09 Yup, looks like they're both 100 digits. 00:05:27 did you generate them or something with like a probable prime thing? 00:05:41 Fiora is going to be driven by obsession to factoring them and will accidentally break all standard encryption algorithms in the process 00:05:47 lol yes 00:05:48 geez I'm just playing around -_- 00:05:50 There's some large prime number generator online. 00:05:52 I used that. 00:05:53 Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799 00:05:53 I have no idea how the actual math works 00:06:00 that's why it'll be an accident! 00:06:26 fiora driven by obsession to understand what all this type theory crap is, accidentally proves ZFC inconsistent 00:06:31 Then I used some ECM applet to test whether or not one of them was prime. 00:06:33 I'm not that good okay ._. 00:06:40 It said that yes, it's prime. 00:06:48 Then I tried to test the other one, but it wouldn't work. 00:06:51 Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle 00:07:22 `addquote Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799 Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle 00:07:26 yea you'll probably have to use millicycles as your unit 00:07:27 1063) Fiora: how long does it take to factor 8616460799 Bike: I think using gnfs to factor that would be like using a nuclear weapon to sterilize a needle 00:07:28 nonetheless 00:07:39 also now i want to sterilize a needle like that 00:07:42 I think the constant factor in gnfs is atrociously awfully terribly bad 00:07:45 i mean. standard procedure is already alcohol fire 00:08:17 (you all know The 8616460799 Story i hope) 00:08:24 what story 00:08:35 The 8616460799 Story, hth. 00:08:38 Weren't you listening? 00:08:55 8616460799 00:08:59 what 00:09:03 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/JevonsNumber.html 00:09:19 oh. jevons... huh 00:09:34 "This became known as Jevons' Number and was factored by Derrick Norman Lehmer in 1903[13] and later on a pocket calculator by Solomon W. Golomb.[14]" hah. 00:09:44 did he tell people to fuck off if they asked what the factors are 00:09:48 "no. I'm taking this to the grave" 00:09:57 ... lehmer. golomb 00:10:04 Trial division. <-- i think it can also help that algorithm i vaguely recall based on x^2 - y^2 = (x+y)(x-y) 00:10:05 is that... Lucas-Lehmer Lehmer? and Golomb code Golomb? 00:10:22 (which is particularly good when the factors are _close_) 00:10:31 quadratic sieve? 00:10:57 Fiora: golomb yes, lehmer no 00:11:10 oh, that's the guy who wrote the coal thing. 00:11:11 the lehmer you're thinking of is the son of the lehmer here. 00:11:15 @_@ 00:11:20 -!- dvorakbot has joined. 00:11:24 1903 was a long time ago, dude! 00:11:27 $u - 00:11:27 U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS (-) 00:11:32 like, twenty years at least 00:11:40 Oh, that's a nice feature. 00:11:42 also drowned? 00:11:57 Fiora: no it's Lucas–Lehmer hth 00:12:00 also invented economics or whatever. 00:12:02 $u – 00:12:02 U+2013 EN DASH (–) 00:12:23 economics more like stupidomics 00:12:33 Wait. "Published factorizations include those by Lehmer (1903) and Golomb (1996)." So how many different published factorizations are there? 00:12:38 is the coal thing known elliott 00:12:46 tswett: i think it kind of loses its novelty after a while. 00:12:55 I can think of eight ways of factoring it into integers alone! 00:12:57 tswett: It's also "published" in taocp2, though. 00:13:18 people sometimes use it as an example now, because jevons was kind of amusingly wrong. 00:13:33 So how can you factor 8616460799 using a pocket calculator? 00:13:57 pretty easy on a TI. 00:14:02 Bike: the coal thing, you know. 00:14:05 Žerovnik, J. "The RSA Cryptosystem in 1873." Obzornik Mat. Fiz. 43, 116-118, 1996. <-- i think i have to check this one out. 00:14:08 How about on an EL-5806S? 00:14:11 elliott: well i mean is it like well known. 00:14:15 tswett: i hope that's an asteroid 00:14:23 Bike: well I know about it. I read the Wikipedia article once 00:14:27 whoa 00:14:30 Yes, I use an asteroid as a pocket calculator. 00:14:36 Yes. 00:14:46 what's the coal thing 00:15:10 @google "The Coal Question" 00:15:10 tswett: isn't lucas-lehmer only for mersenne primes though? 00:15:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coal_Question 00:15:11 Title: The Coal Question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 00:15:20 Fiora: I dunno. 00:15:29 $u ꙮ 00:15:29 U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O (ꙮ) 00:15:36 and it's a primarily test, not a factoring thing, I thought... 00:15:37 hi dvorakbot 00:15:37 Hey kmc! 00:15:40 Phantom_Hoover: he was all like "WHOA, GUYS, peak oil" in the 1800s 00:15:42 :O 00:15:44 $help 00:15:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas%E2%80%93Lehmer_primality_test ? 00:16:23 "s'il vous plaît"? 00:16:28 > text "$u $" 00:16:29 $u $ 00:16:35 dvorakbot: come on, you were supposed to respond to that. 00:16:37 > text "hi dvorakbot" 00:16:38 hi dvorakbot 00:17:02 Most of the commands can only occur at the beginning of a line. 00:17:08 Lemme look for exceptions. 00:17:30 > text "dvorakbot, help" 00:17:31 dvorakbot, help 00:17:43 dvorakbot: help 00:17:43 tswett: Hi, I'm a bot. Say ".commands" to me in private for a list of my commands, or see http://inamidst.com/phenny/ for more general details. My owner is tswett. 00:17:46 Ooh. 00:17:51 $commands 00:18:14 Uh, that ought to be working. 00:18:16 $beats 00:18:16 @054 00:18:16 Unknown command, try @list 00:18:22 ^_^ 00:18:24 @beats 00:18:24 Unknown command, try @list 00:18:27 Er. 00:18:27 $beats 00:18:28 @054 00:18:28 Unknown command, try @list 00:18:32 elliott: http://papers.snaffbox.org/php/main/index.php you should tell me if this sucks. thx in advance 00:18:47 $at 00:18:47 tswett: Sorry, didn't understand the time spec. 00:19:20 Bike: looks a bit unpolished 00:19:37 $at now 00:19:37 tswett: Sorry, didn't understand the time spec. 00:19:43 Not sure what that's supposed to do. 00:19:52 $stats 00:19:52 most used commands: u (3), beats (2), at (2), help (1), hello (1), commands (1) 00:19:53 power users: tswett (8), kmc (2) 00:19:54 power channels: #esoteric (10) 00:19:57 fuck yeah 00:20:00 $u fuck yeah 00:20:00 kmc: Sorry, no results for 'fuck yeah'. 00:20:06 Congrats on being a power user. 00:20:16 Also, lemme turn on the Dvorak commands. 00:20:17 $u ǟ 00:20:17 U+01DF LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON (ǟ) 00:20:20 $u $ 00:20:20 U+0024 DOLLAR SIGN ($) 00:20:24 -!- dvorakbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:20:29 bye 00:20:34 rip 00:20:45 dvorakbot is dead, never to return. 00:21:00 this paper apparently doesn't exist 00:21:02 Let us celebrate the life of him/her/it/em. 00:21:02 disappointing 00:21:07 -!- dvorakbot has joined. 00:21:16 dvorakbot, you were always such a good friend to us. 00:22:07 Hey, who wants to be a card? 00:22:27 Ooh, I wonder what $val and $ngc do. 00:22:27 $val 00:22:28 tswett: Nothing to validate. 00:22:36 $ngc 00:22:37 tswett: No query term. 00:22:44 $val http://en.wikipedia.org/ 00:22:45 tswett: http://en.wikipedia.org/ is Abort 00:22:53 :? 00:23:08 * tswett shrugs. 00:23:44 $newcard kmc 00:23:44 Card 1: kmc 00:23:46 $val mother of monsters 00:23:47 Bike: http://mother is Abort 00:23:53 oh. 00:23:54 kmc: congratulations, you're Card 1. 00:23:59 $val google.com 00:24:01 Bike: http://google.com is Abort 00:24:16 $val w3.org 00:24:17 Bike: http://w3.org is Valid 00:24:26 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:24:41 $tock 00:24:42 "Thu, 27 Jun 2013 00:24:41 GMT" - tycho.usno.navy.mil 00:25:25 Don't have too much fun. 00:25:41 Unless you're in #dvorak-game. 00:25:46 $val elliott 00:25:47 ion: http://elliott is Abort 00:25:54 elliott: FYI, HTH. 00:26:39 thanks 00:26:57 $val oerjan.nvg.org 00:26:59 oerjan: http://oerjan.nvg.org is Invalid (1 error) 00:27:05 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 00:27:07 oh no 00:30:01 what is this dvorak game 00:30:04 and what's the only winning move 00:30:59 Not to play? 00:33:17 * Phantom_Hoover rewatches the thick of it 00:33:29 they really were great at writing meaningless political bullshit 00:33:50 kmc: the only winning move is AOEUIDHTNS 00:33:51 season 2 of Veep just ended 00:37:11 -!- dessos has joined. 00:46:51 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:57 -!- DH____ has joined. 00:53:11 kmc, is veep as good 00:55:15 can't compare, but it's very good 00:55:25 i mean it's hard to compare the two 00:55:52 how do they compare to yes minister 01:05:14 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:41:16 http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-email/ oh geez XD 01:42:32 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:42:32 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:42:39 haha 01:43:25 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:30 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:46:07 Fiora: Google could use some SEO! 01:46:09 -!- elliott_1 has joined. 01:46:09 http://www.bing.com/search?q=search+engine 01:47:01 -!- elliott_1 has changed nick to elliott. 01:47:04 Wow, not even on the front page of https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=search+engine 01:47:10 elliott_1: who are you and what have you done... darn 01:49:45 -!- kappabot has joined. 01:49:48 @admin + elliott 01:49:51 @admin + oerjan 01:50:26 lambdabot already reconnected. 01:50:34 Oh. 01:50:40 Not when I sent a /msg. 01:50:54 i see no lambdabot 01:51:04 checkmate 01:52:50 oerjan: it joins slowly 01:53:00 -!- lambdabot has joined. 01:53:20 slithering through the channels 01:58:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:14:32 http://blog.wolfram.com/2013/06/26/is-there-any-point-to-the-12-times-table/ this is cool + totally unnecessary 02:15:47 I can't do mental multiplication at all 02:16:58 elliott: i bet you learned the × table all the way to 2!! 02:17:12 (Take that, factorial jokesters.) 02:24:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnyte). 02:33:36 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:51:34 any of you guys possibly know of a mathematical study of tower defense type games? 02:52:03 in what respect 02:52:56 well 02:53:05 there is a maximum amount of damage you are capable of inflicting at any point 02:53:15 a maximum amount of resources you are able to have acquired 02:53:16 etc. 02:55:21 how about "Mathematical methods of organizing and planning production", kantorovich 02:55:45 :o 02:55:47 will check it out 02:59:48 interesting, will have to read in more depth 02:59:56 http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/quickfix/1/9/4/188194.jpg?v=2 dark secrets of the NSA 03:25:51 http://preview.reuters.com/2013/6/12/exclusive-snowden-as-a-teen-online-anime-and-1 i'm gonna die. 03:27:44 oh my god. 03:28:25 Reuters viewed the website on Tuesday and contacted former company employees for comment. On Wednesday, the website had been taken down. 03:29:16 presidential elections in ~20 years will be pretty amazing 03:29:27 all the candidates will have embarrassed themselves terribly on like, facebook and stuff as kids 03:29:35 they might even have, like, a deviantart 03:29:41 where they drew sonic fanart 03:30:35 gotta go fast, a slogan for the future 03:32:46 "I stand by my motto today, as I did then" 03:32:54 "we gotta go fast, towards the future." 03:34:46 "and thirdly, tifa would TOTALLY do aeris. no further questions" 03:53:11 http://www.markturner.net/2010/05/09/the-compelled-certificate-creation-attack/ this attack was worth people writing a paper about it? 03:53:53 Oh "We reveal alarming ev- 03:53:54 idence that suggests that this attack is in ac- 03:53:54 tive use." 03:53:54 Woah 03:57:25 "Thus, any web browser that depends upon Mi- 03:57:25 crosoft's Trusted Root Store (such as Internet Ex- 03:57:25 plorer, Chrome and Safari for Windows) ultimately 03:57:25 trusts 264 dierent CAs to issue certicates without 03:57:25 warning, although only a handful of them are listed 03:57:25 in the operating system's user interface." 04:05:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:15:55 -!- Bike has joined. 04:18:48 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:22:51 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:23:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:31:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:33:40 what's with #haskell 04:40:50 -!- conehead has joined. 05:13:16 what now 05:14:00 nothing it's passed 05:14:16 k 05:14:28 https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1011817_10100526803867865_340272139_n.jpg SF city hall 05:14:38 well there may be "long term crises""" going on but we'll see about that 05:14:55 city hall more like pretty hall 05:20:42 City hall more like Crayola box hall. 05:27:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park new england is weird 05:27:31 https plz 05:27:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park shachaf is weird 05:28:04 thx hth 05:34:16 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 05:45:56 Bike: new jersey \not\in new england 05:46:56 jersey ∉ england, either 05:46:57 it works out 05:47:41 ↑ 05:49:54 Action Park Shachaf 05:52:49 Bike: wht about it 05:54:31 it's weird 06:17:00 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:36:17 -!- printfn has joined. 06:36:43 !bfjoust 06:36:43 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 06:54:15 Bike: the Tank Ride sounds fucking awesome though 06:54:53 true 06:59:15 "Employees at the park used to like eating at a nearby snack bar with a good view of [Surf Hill], since it was almost guaranteed that they could see some serious injuries, lost bikini tops, or both" 07:02:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:05 -!- DH____ has joined. 07:19:30 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:27:27 mnoqy: how's mac lane going 07:30:47 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:35:08 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:08 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:09 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:09 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:09 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:09 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- TeruFSX has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:10 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:11 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:11 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:11 -!- dessos has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:11 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:12 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:12 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:12 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:12 -!- lexande has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- DH____ has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- printfn has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- kappabot has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:13 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:14 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:14 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:14 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:14 -!- mnoqy has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:14 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- constant has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:15 -!- sivoais has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:16 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:16 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:16 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:16 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:16 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:17 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:17 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:17 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 07:35:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (*.net *.split). 07:36:12 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 07:37:48 -!- lexande has joined. 07:37:48 -!- shachaf has joined. 07:37:48 -!- hogeyui has joined. 07:37:48 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:37:48 -!- DH____ has joined. 07:37:48 -!- printfn has joined. 07:37:48 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 07:37:48 -!- conehead has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Bike has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Lymia has joined. 07:37:48 -!- lambdabot has joined. 07:37:48 -!- kappabot has joined. 07:37:48 -!- elliott has joined. 07:37:48 -!- dessos has joined. 07:37:48 -!- heroux has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Vorpal has joined. 07:37:48 -!- aloril has joined. 07:37:48 -!- tswett has joined. 07:37:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:37:48 -!- augur has joined. 07:37:48 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 07:37:48 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Gregor has joined. 07:37:48 -!- coppro has joined. 07:37:48 -!- ion has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 07:37:48 -!- constant has joined. 07:37:48 -!- quintopia has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 07:37:48 -!- TodPunk has joined. 07:37:48 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 07:37:48 -!- HackEgo has joined. 07:37:48 -!- olsner has joined. 07:37:48 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Fiora has joined. 07:37:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:37:48 -!- clog has joined. 07:37:48 -!- myndzi has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:37:48 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 07:37:48 -!- kmc has joined. 07:37:48 -!- jix has joined. 07:37:48 -!- nortti has joined. 07:37:48 -!- fizzie has joined. 07:37:48 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +v kmc . 07:37:48 -!- ggherdov has joined. 07:37:48 -!- jconn has joined. 07:37:48 -!- myname has joined. 07:37:48 -!- glogbackup has joined. 07:37:48 -!- yiyus has joined. 07:37:48 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 07:37:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:37:48 -!- ineiros has joined. 07:51:48 `relcome Freenode 07:51:54 ​Freenode: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:53:09 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:17:19 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:42:32 -!- sprocklem has joined. 09:02:34 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 09:05:24 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:08:03 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:58 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 09:17:38 -!- ssue__ has joined. 09:49:27 -!- DH____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:07:26 -!- printfn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:18:21 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:52:38 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:59:06 -!- yiyus has joined. 10:59:36 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:04:58 -!- Yonkie has quit. 11:28:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:37:44 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:45:55 -!- yiyus has joined. 11:50:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:01:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:07:50 -!- itsy has changed nick to John_Metcalf. 12:11:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:18:39 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:25:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:43:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:03 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:49:24 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:50:32 -!- Fiora has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:53:11 -!- myname has joined. 12:53:53 -!- Fiora has joined. 13:11:56 Help I was just sarcastic on Facebook and now I feel bad 13:14:04 Taneb: stop feeling bad hth 13:14:12 Okay! 13:14:15 Thanks, shachaf 13:14:18 That did help. 13:14:26 that'll be $5,000 hth 13:14:47 (if you don't pay you'll feel bad about not paying me) 13:15:22 I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how not bad I feel 13:15:50 looks like i overdid it "oops" 13:21:37 Taneb: How's `olist going? 13:21:54 Taneb: Does thread count matter? 13:51:04 Dear god I have 14 channels on autojoin on this server alon! 13:51:05 e 13:53:52 -!- sacje has joined. 13:58:18 wtf I only have 11 channels 13:58:22 where the hell are you 14:04:28 ##fiora, #0x10c-dev, #0x10c-galaxy, #agda, #esoteric, #esoteric-minecraft, #happs, #haskell, #haskell-lens, #haskell-web, #pbsideachannel, #snapframework, #yesod 14:04:49 #dwarffortress 14:06:16 Taneb: You should turn channel hiding off! 14:06:52 I'm... 14:06:54 not sure how 14:08:19 why the hell are you in #happs 14:08:27 Taneb: Uh, maybe it's mode -i? 14:08:33 correction why the hell are you in half of those 14:08:46 elliott, when I am bored I like to throw Haskell web frameworks at eachother 14:09:04 That accounts for 4 14:10:47 OK, uh, it's not -i. 14:15:31 Taneb: Or maybe it is! 14:15:37 Taneb: Try /mode Taneb -i 14:15:47 Okay 14:15:55 Yay, it worked. 14:16:04 Now everyone can see your full channel list. 14:16:11 One day you'll grow up to be ski. 14:41:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:41:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:04:03 Bike: http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/tls/biases.pdf http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/tls/ geez RC4 keeps getting new attacks 15:05:15 i uh don't even know what that is 15:05:28 the stream cipher! like the one in WEP and stuff that everyone uses 15:05:44 the one that's really fast and isn't very good 15:06:01 oh boy 15:06:08 and like now they finally have an attack that works on RC4 in general 15:06:49 like with WEP it was a problem with badly chosen IVs, not RC4 itself 15:07:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRIME_(security_exploit) <-- ooh. this one is fun too 15:07:50 taking advantage of data compression and chosen-plaintexts to leak information about the information in the rest of the packet 15:08:01 because the data compression tells you "what size is the packet after it gets compressed" 15:08:17 not just 'crime', 'CRIME' 15:09:22 I love the acronyms they make XD 15:09:42 "Why are the attacks called "Lucky Thirteen"? 15:09:46 In Western culture, 13 is considered an unlucky number. However, the fact that the TLS MAC calculation includes 13 bytes of header information (5 bytes of TLS header plus 8 bytes of TLS sequence number) 15:09:50 is, in part, what makes the attacks possible. So, in the context of our attacks, 13 is lucky - from the attacker's perspective at least. This is what passes for humour amongst cryptographers." 15:11:22 i'm kind of distracted atm because i found out they can make transparent mouse brains now 15:11:34 transparent... mouse... brains @_@ 15:11:45 yeah 15:11:57 it involves removing all the fat from all the cells and replacing it with a hydrogel mesh 15:12:02 apparently that's a thing we can do?! 15:12:27 and that... won't... kill it? 15:13:30 oh, no, i'm pretty sure it's dead. but you don't need to slice it up and also it looks sci-fi as hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBeuxiAif9E 15:13:57 you can trace individual neural projections and stuff 15:14:19 the same guy invented optogenetics, so, i hope he gets his nobel soon 15:14:37 awww. transparent living mouse brains would have been a cool thing 15:15:19 yeah 15:15:30 it's still really weird seeing like a photo of a transparent mouse brain 15:15:39 since you can... see through it 15:16:19 «Dr. Chung said the hydrogel forms a kind of mesh that permeates the brain and connects to most of the molecules, but not to the lipids, which include fats and some other substances. The brain is then put in a soapy solution and an electric current is applied, which drives the solution through the brain, washing out the lipids. Once they are out, the brain is transparent, and its biochemistry is intact, so it may be infused with chemicals, lik 15:16:56 «On his laboratory bench, he said, “I have a transparent liver, lungs and heart.”» possibly a wizard? 15:16:56 cuts off at "infused with chemicals, lik" 15:17:14 Once they are out, the brain is transparent, and its biochemistry is intact, so it may be infused with chemicals, like antibody molecules that also have a dye attached, that show fine details of its structure and previous activity. 15:17:43 mm mm mm 15:22:05 "infused with chemicals" sounds like some strange alternate-reality marketing copy 15:22:47 infused with a variety of powerful chemicals, Shampoo Tox will make your hair softer, silkier, and atomized" 15:28:26 Infused with a variety of powerful magicks. 15:28:40 chemickals 15:28:50 ckemickal? 15:29:06 chemykals 15:33:20 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:35:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:46:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:48:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:48:29 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 16:29:57 -!- augur has joined. 17:06:44 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:07:09 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 17:23:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:42:49 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:18 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 18:04:36 http://www.bestdesigntuts.com/top-php-misconceptions-to-avoid 18:05:03 'But why would you want it to be secure by default, why not write a secure code for it... If you compare it with .NET which helps you with security by default, PHP misses out, but if you are a skilled programmer, you don’t really need “help” with security' 18:07:42 yes 18:08:03 (????????????what) 18:10:15 kmc you are almost as much of a masochist as me 18:16:44 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:17:14 true 18:18:19 this is double funny because if you code in C to show how h4rdc0re you are, it will at least impress people 18:18:29 but if you do the same with PHP they will just laugh at you 18:19:12 sounds like ur aim is hecked 18:21:54 impressed by way of why the hell would you write anything in php 18:28:28 isn't it great how the people who want static types to catch our own mistakes are 'elitists' while the people who say "Real Programmers just don't make mistakes" are the salt of the earth 18:29:09 we really need like a hardcore anti-intellectual PHP programmer in here so kmc has someone to talk to 18:29:34 nah i much prefer arguing with strawmen 18:46:58 http://www.php-qb.net 18:47:54 elliott: I could get my boss in here to keep going on and on about CamelCase like that implementation detail matters 18:48:13 He knows PHP, Zend, and nothing else 18:48:18 While PHP is an excellent language for building complex web application, it imposes certain limitations. 18:48:21 mmmmmh 18:48:46 I'm just going to write overly type hinted PHP to fuck with him 18:49:35 I've already started using array_map and array_reduce all the time to throw him off 18:51:32 Hmm. For some reason, autopano-SIFT is having some trouble finding good keypoints in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180129.jpg 18:51:43 (Also: photo of the year 2013?) 18:51:59 To the /topic 18:52:42 http://io9.com/5938521/the-ultimate-invention-for-telling-your-coworkers-to-screw-themselves 18:57:23 "you can make [PHP] even more secure if you get a thorough understanding of all its directives" 18:57:33 Yes, because you'll stop using it altogether 18:57:36 haha 18:58:15 i love this attitude where knowing a workaround for a flaw, no matter how awful or tedious, means the flaw doesn't exist in the first place 18:58:24 Yeah, Haskell sucks. I don't have to understand the entire language just to make code that won't explode in my face 19:10:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:12:45 "lack of operator overloading, etc. can affect the performance of a PHP application" 19:16:08 "there is something called a Command Line Interface and this can be used to ensure that your PHP applications run outside the web server" 19:16:11 WHOA 19:16:18 Command… line… interface? 19:16:33 http://i.imgur.com/CSbWN6z.jpg 19:19:17 ok so this is like the least likely thing 19:19:24 but does anyone use agda with emacs on os x 19:19:30 hm, I have to close an investment account that was opened in 1998, to get monies 19:19:34 if so why do subscripts not show no matter what font i use 19:19:35 seems p. likely, but try #agda? 19:19:38 oh maybe copumpkin does???? 19:19:39 elliott: Yes 19:19:50 kmc: uh I think you'll find that questions are only on topic in #esoteric 19:19:58 I don't know if I can do that. that account is, like, pretty old. it's almost able to get a driving permit in some states. 19:19:59 NihilistDandy: ok great please tell me your subscripts were broken and then you found a way to fix them 19:20:17 I haven't noticed anything particularly broken before. Screenshot? 19:20:31 Gracenotes: that account is 3 years younger than me 8| 19:20:33 I use DejaVu Sans Mono and that always seemed to play nice with it 19:20:37 NihilistDandy: they literally just display as spaces 19:20:43 I mean I could screenshot it but it seems a little pointless 19:20:52 where do you get your emacs / what version is it? 19:21:21 I brew install emacs --cocoa --srgb --with-gnutls 19:21:28 So I guess 24.3 stable 19:21:36 elliott: I feel like I might get some kind of award if I leave it open for long enough 19:21:41 hmm, I did the same 19:21:48 except maybe without the gnutls part but I doubt that's relevant 19:21:52 or, like, the ultimate negotiating trump card, in some circumstance 19:21:54 I would hope not :D 19:22:50 I don't think finance works like that, though 19:22:53 maybe it's something to do with line height or anything 19:22:55 *or something 19:23:01 Well, let me install Agda again. I recently reformatted and I haven't got everything set up, yet. 19:23:11 alright -- thanks :) 19:23:25 What does M-x describe-face tell you for default? 19:24:33 Inconsolata with nothing particularly interesting-looking in the details -- I do (set-default-font "Inconsolata-16") in my ~/.emacs, but it also happens with every other font I have tried 19:24:37 and all the other unicode works fine 19:25:03 Hmm. Have you customized font-locking at all? 19:25:16 Maybe some option got overwritten by mistake 19:26:16 not beyond that 19:26:34 Also, wow, I just installed Agda after weeks of experimenting with packages from all over the place, and it didn't break once :D 19:35:17 -!- conehead has joined. 19:41:43 NihilistDandy: any luck? 19:42:11 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:42:57 elliott: Yeah, subscripts seem to be working for me 19:43:07 Hmm 19:44:04 http://d.pr/i/LJB9 19:45:42 Also, man, oh man, I need to change the highlighting for Agda 19:45:43 odd... 19:46:06 emacs 24.3.1, you? 19:46:46 Yup 19:47:11 hmph 19:47:45 does it work with other fonts for you? 19:47:48 or just dejavu? 19:47:48 Does the subscript in this file show up? http://d.pr/f/AAji 19:47:52 Hmm, lemme check 19:48:50 NihilistDandy: http://i.imgur.com/c9wmiRf.png 19:48:57 Works for me with inconsolata 19:49:03 Hmm 19:49:12 Well, there's a package I have installed that might help 19:49:49 Try M-x package-install unicode-fonts 19:49:52 Then add (require 'unicode-fonts) 19:49:52 (unicode-fonts-setup) 19:49:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:49:58 To your .emacs 19:50:09 It adds a little startup time, but it might do the trick 19:51:02 That's very odd, though. I can't imagine what would cause that 19:51:23 [No match] for unicode-fonts apparently 19:51:33 btw, the space seems oddly thin 19:51:37 Oh, it might only be on MELPA 19:51:53 what OS X version? 19:51:54 -!- Bike has joined. 19:52:01 10.8.4 here 19:52:09 10.8.4 here, as well 19:52:11 (add-to-list 'package-archives 19:52:11 '("melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/") t) 19:53:04 Let me try removing that package and maybe I'll be able to reproduce the issue 19:53:09 ok 19:53:32 Aha 19:53:34 There it is 19:53:46 That is apparently the issue 19:53:49 that seems weird, what does that package even do 19:54:15 https://github.com/rolandwalker/unicode-fonts#overview 19:55:01 ok so I guess the problem is i don't have dejavu sans mono 19:55:06 and you were getting all the glyphs substituted from there 19:55:38 Well, I still have DejaVu, now, and my subscripts are gone 19:56:06 maybe symbola or something then?? 19:56:13 thanks for your help, anyway 19:56:18 I have symbola, as well 19:56:21 will see if I can fix it with this 19:56:44 Yeah, I think this is all that's necessary. It's a minor annoyance, but you can switch off fonts to boost startup time 19:57:17 I'm not sure if it's an issue in agda-mode, Emacs, or what. 19:58:07 eh 19:58:07 Warning (initialization): An error occurred while loading `/Users/elliott/.emacs': 19:58:11 Symbol's value as variable is void: package-archives 19:58:13 do I have to do more stuff to set up this package thing 19:58:34 Package is part of Emacs 24, so that should be enough 19:58:51 http://melpa.milkbox.net/#installing 19:59:15 Or like this 19:59:16 (setq package-archives '(("gnu" . "http://elpa.gnu.org/packages/") 19:59:16 ("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/") 19:59:16 ("melpa" . "http://melpa.milkbox.net/packages/"))) 19:59:22 http://i.imgur.com/IGQZduF.png exclusive picture of me 19:59:59 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ELPA 20:02:48 Bike, The True HOOHA 20:02:51 so it was you all along 20:02:56 yes 20:03:49 mnoqy: have uyou seen the article that goes witht hat image 20:03:58 bike has a link, it is very good 20:04:01 i havent 20:04:05 i should tho 20:05:02 oh actually you have to set the oven on if you want your pizza to be baked 20:05:08 nobody told me that 20:09:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:09:52 mnoqy: found it on bike's behalf http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-snowden-anime-idUSBRE95B14B20130612 20:10:07 Does the NSA care that I follow Al Jazeera on Twitter? 20:10:29 Oh, surprise, Snowden was a fukken nerrrrd 20:10:38 this is good 20:10:39 al jazeera is pretty weaksauce as evil terrists go 20:11:16 it makes up for him supporting ron paul, imo. 20:12:09 Invest in gold, capitalism is a farce hth 20:12:46 statist capitalism* hth 20:13:34 Anyway, elliott, why Agda. Errybody knows Idris is the new hotness 20:13:51 invest in bitcoin, prepare for the singularity 20:14:03 idris is... somewhat unpolished in my experience 20:14:28 for fuck's sake why are you not talking about the actor 20:14:41 idris elba? 20:14:43 he's p. good 20:15:07 he's the guy in luther right 20:15:11 yes 20:15:21 should i watch that 20:15:26 yes 20:15:27 unfortunately that ginger psychopath character put me off 20:15:37 well that depends what kind of shows you like though 20:15:40 i saw like 1½ episodes and i was like "... this is a bit much" 20:16:15 I'm gonna spoil you though superman does not appear in the first season 20:16:36 I only realized after watching it that it was Luther and not Luthor 20:18:22 um 20:18:22 hi 20:20:17 :-D http://i.imgur.com/JYGV1K8.jpg 20:20:32 Koen_, so why did luther keep trusting her that really pissed me off 20:20:51 he really just seemed to be doing it to make him interesting and dark 20:22:07 Phantom_Hoover: he just had to get the violins made 20:23:03 ion: awesome. 20:23:45 Phantom_Hoover: when did he trust her? 20:23:58 he spent half the season trying to protect his family from her 20:24:35 i don't know he seemed weirdly pally 20:24:42 well 20:24:56 "one coffee doesn't make us friends" was wrong apparently 20:25:04 i don't remember but i have this vague recollection that ~feminine wiles~ may have been involved 20:27:31 strangely enough, I can add funds online to this account, but I can't remove any 20:27:54 feminine andrew wiles 20:29:01 kmc: with those sexy elliptic curves? 20:29:13 hope so 20:31:22 "I'd like to find a powersmooth region on *your* elliptic curves" 20:32:06 "is that a pickup line?" "Yeah, here's my two hundred page proof you should find that attractive" 20:33:28 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:34:17 "I think you made an error in your proof... here." 20:36:31 are you meant to point at wiles' penis at this stage 20:37:26 great joke ph (a thumb up) 20:38:33 I... was actually thinking at pointing at somewhere in the math 20:38:51 maybe you don't have what it takes to flirt with the dorkiest mathematician alive 20:39:44 I don't know, good showing so far 20:40:53 also he's married, hth 20:45:02 Bike: before that I'd need to like, have what it takes to flirt with somewhat dorky biomathematicians who hang out in #esoteric 20:47:16 go meta, obviously, they dig that 20:47:17 aha, the metaflirt 20:47:21 fuck you Bike 20:47:29 no 20:47:50 see, that's a failed flirt 20:48:31 but that 20:48:34 that was meta 20:48:35 or 20:48:37 is that the joke >_< 20:48:46 that wasn't meta 20:49:54 oh 20:53:19 NihilistDandy: hmm, I seem to have gotten that package source added but unicode-fonts is still nowhere to be found 20:53:22 emacs is hard. 20:53:46 elliott: M-x package-list-packages should download the list 20:53:58 Or M-x package-initalize or something like that 20:54:48 you know, when people talk about emacs being an OS I doubt what they had in mind was that it needed a package manager 20:54:58 this seems to be working though, yay 20:56:47 Even vim has like 6 competing package managers. At least emacs settled on one 21:10:01 * kmc → airplane → SAN FRANCISCO 21:10:25 good luck! 21:10:33 thanks 21:10:45 remember to keep the plane level 21:11:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:11:21 kmc: cya :) 21:11:30 hi kmc 21:11:36 bye kmc 21:11:53 I,I * kmc ✈ SAN FRANCISCO 21:12:07 awesome. 21:12:59 kmc: don't forget the flour in your hare hth 21:15:07 Don't forget the fluoride in your water hth2 21:16:27 http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg 21:17:11 is the 'used by nazis' bit serious 21:17:13 NaS is a good musician 21:17:26 i think the nazis did fluoridate water 21:17:36 i mean, they also banned smoking, etc etc 21:17:53 Also, if it causes apathy, who is that sign going to convince? 21:17:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:17:56 I,I http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar 21:18:04 yes. 21:18:11 why do you keep saying I,I 21:18:20 I,I I,I 21:18:31 Phantom_Hoover: it's an owl 21:18:34 Phantom_Hoover: maybe i like owls 21:18:57 * Bike googles "water fluoridation nazis", which will surely be informative 21:19:00 NihilistDandy: it works!!! thank you 21:19:36 elliott: Nice. I wonder why that happens, all of a sudden. Maybe Emacs 24 handles unicode differently than 23 did 21:20:01 "The Use Of Flouridation For Mass Mind Control - Rense" hm yes. 21:20:26 I hate the water fluoridation nazis. They totally suck. 21:20:30 oh hm duh tmux -c does _not_ actually start tmux 21:20:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:20:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:22:33 oerjan: tmux new cmd # hth 21:22:44 I just run tmux a 21:22:50 my irc-thing command file says: 21:22:52 shachaf: i know, i just assumed -c would be a synonym 21:22:56 #exec tmux new -A -D -s irc 21:22:56 exec tmux attach -d -t irc # old version of tmux; will attach only 21:23:12 because my server's tmux is too told to support new -A :'( 21:23:32 I have (among other things) this in my .tmux.conf: new -d -s0 -nirc 'exec weechat-curses' 21:23:44 tmux a will run that if no tmux session exists. Otherwise it’ll just attach normally. 21:24:04 Should work with old versions, too. 21:25:40 I just tested out a hand-crafted panorama tripod head thing in an *enclosed space* -- and look, no parallax to speak of: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180115-162-small.jpg -- shame it's pretty much the most boring hotel room. 21:25:47 I also tested it in the fanciest possible place, this concert stage floating on a cliff-enclosed lake in an old molybdenum mine -- except turns out things that float around actually, well, float around, so the fancy rotate-around-the-no-parallax-point rig did absolutely nothing special at all. 21:26:08 fizzie: Cool. Information about the tripod head anywhere? 21:26:22 fizzie: It looks pretty spacious that way, though 21:26:27 oerjan: dtach is much easier to use, hth 21:26:40 Does dtach support multiple windows? 21:26:50 no but my irc client does 21:27:07 What client do you use? 21:27:35 Can you shells, text editors, a torrent client and a log reader in your IRC client? 21:27:38 run 21:27:57 is CLIENTINFO actually a thing 21:28:13 ion: Not really; though it's not terribly exciting, I just more or less followed one of the umpteen guides along the lines of "L-shaped piece of metal bolted to a straight piece of metal". There's a picture of it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-panohead.jpg anyway. 21:28:15 ion: no, but my terminal emulator has this handy feature whereby it can open multiple ones 21:28:49 fizzie: Alright, thanks 21:28:57 elliott: Apparently 21:29:08 elliott: And attach to them from elsewhere? 21:29:33 elliott: i think i like tmux thank you very much, also this server doesn't have dtach installed. 21:30:10 ion: my terminals are a mess, why would I want to replicate that mess? :) 21:30:22 Also, molybdenum mine lake concert stage thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130627-p1180390-437-small.jpg 21:32:13 (The cliff doesn't look terribly impressive after the equirectangular squezzling. 21:32:15 elliott: also my main reason for using tmux is that my network connection is flaky, which makes it much simpler to just have to restart _one_ window, sure? 21:32:17 ) 21:32:42 oerjan: wait you actually use putty for more than irssi? :P 21:33:05 but also, ^Bc _is_ more convenient than opening another putty. 21:33:26 oerjan: but now if you want bold text you have to press ^B twice 21:33:52 elliott: well not _most_ of the time, but i _do_ have my email, webpage and linux in general on the nvg server... 21:34:37 shachaf: fortunately i rarely want that. screen's ^A was much more annoying, since that's what i've bound to go to start of line 21:35:37 elliott: also i use it to do host or whois whenever i want to check out things to ban (inb4 "that's nearly never!") 21:39:45 03:29:16: presidential elections in ~20 years will be pretty amazing 21:39:45 03:29:27: all the candidates will have embarrassed themselves terribly on like, facebook and stuff as kids 21:40:02 oerjan: Yes, that waas my situation too. 21:40:10 oerjan: (Also you can rebind this key if you want.) 21:40:12 i am hoping this kind of process will make people stop caring about such insignificant things 21:40:20 shachaf: i know 21:40:27 NihilistDandy: hah but now \lub shows as a square 21:43:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:43:49 oerjan: You could rebind it in screen if you wanted, too. 21:43:55 but you were too lazy to hth 21:44:43 no i actually rebound it to ^Y in screen, but then i complained about pgup/pgdn not working and people suggested changing to tmux 21:45:09 oh 21:45:17 thanks, people 21:45:17 which actually did nothing to fix the pgup/pgdn issue but people said tmux was better in general 21:45:40 (i fixed that by finding the correct putty setting) 21:46:29 shachaf: also i _first_ rebound it to the mnemonic ^S, with what in afterthought should be obvious hilarious results. 21:51:10 (i _knew_ about xon/xoff, but had somehow got the impression it wasn't usually enabled...) 21:52:39 elliott: Shit, so it does. 21:53:14 \u+ is a box, too 21:54:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:59:46 I tried to disable xon/xoff, but somehow it still occasionally happens 22:00:00 ^Q fixes everything though 22:02:14 FreeFull: not when you're trying to get an _actual_ ^S through to screen which you are trying to reset without killing it 22:03:23 fortunately i was in a shell window, and found out screen could be controlled remotely 22:07:42 @tell taneb elliott, when I am bored I like to throw Haskell web frameworks at eachother <- you should make partial lenses to convert between snap and yesod hth 22:07:42 Consider it noted. 22:07:42 Consider it noted. 22:07:58 `thanks kappabot 22:08:04 Thanks, kappabot. Thappabot. 22:12:00 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:12:24 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 22:12:29 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:12:29 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 22:12:29 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:12:44 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 22:13:13 how to reconnect in five noisy steps 22:14:52 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:16:45 Tsakhiagiin Elbegdorj is such a household name 22:16:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:22:13 http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/06/msg00720.html lol. 22:30:51 huh, that thing shachaf kept bugging everyone about got funded 22:31:01 Phantom_Hoover: p. crazy huh 22:31:18 i know, i was expecting it to fail because shachaf was helping 22:31:26 and there we were thinking it was p. not going to make it 22:31:41 Phantom_Hoover: is the joke "shachaf is incompetent" :'( 22:32:06 no, it's more like you're anticompetent 22:32:30 this sounds like a useful skill 22:32:36 i would use it to my advatnage except, y'know 22:32:49 imo: join the republican party 22:32:50 (I suspect Phantom_Hoover just likes insulting people for some reason.) 22:40:41 elliott: SOLUTION! 22:41:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 22:43:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:44:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:44:09 -!- augur has joined. 22:45:59 how could it not succeed with a cosy name like armikrog 22:47:58 @tell elliott So, it turns out you don't really need all that unicode-fonts nonsense, after all. https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac-port brew rm emacs, then tap and install this one. I used it a few months back when it was less stable, and it's generally nicer than the current Cocoa port. It even works in terminal, mostly. 22:47:58 Consider it noted. 22:47:59 Consider it noted. 22:48:41 kappabot: @quit 22:48:42 -!- kappabot has quit (Quit: requested). 22:49:51 ...i guess technically this means the duplicate messages will annoy people the next time it joins... 22:50:06 heh 22:51:04 NihilistDandy: hi 22:51:20 p. deep response 22:51:40 c. deep indeed 22:52:23 elliott: Anyway, I fixed emacs by getting rid of emacs and getting a different one. And it should also fix it for you 22:52:42 Bonus points because it will actually be nicer in most wayss 22:52:45 *-s 22:53:30 The icon is about a thousand times uglier, but who looks at the dock? 23:14:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 23:23:08 * oerjan predicts that the ugly icon will drive elliott absolutely bonkers 23:28:46 Not as much as incomplete Unicode coverage in Agda mode will 23:32:00 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:34:14 hi shachaf 23:34:16 i'm back in #haskell 23:34:22 "big day" 23:34:23 hi kmc 23:34:26 i saw 23:34:52 i thought it was just temporary 23:34:59 I thought you were getting on a plane 23:35:05 it takes a while to get on a plane 23:35:30 departs in 2 hours 25 mins 23:35:34 That's a lot of delay. 23:35:56 eeesh 23:37:02 my flight from Boston to SF is delayed due to fog 23:37:04 how ironic 23:37:16 how will you SFO -> SF 23:37:57 the plane is #haskell 23:37:58 unclear 23:38:17 I'll arrive too late for BART so I'll take SamTrans 292 / 397 23:38:23 unless I arrive really late and BART is running again 23:38:33 or I could be a true mission software jerk and take an Uber 23:38:38 kmc: i like this moving to SF and joining #haskell on the same day 23:38:46 in my head you've been planning this for months 23:38:55 the day everything changes 23:39:03 you could also take one of those shuttles 23:39:11 ? 23:39:16 don't know shuttles 23:39:43 i mean the thing you linked to a while ago when i asked about it 23:39:54 supershuttle.com etc. 23:40:47 oh 23:40:50 those kind of suck 23:40:55 but it's a thought, yeah 23:41:09 depends on where you're going 23:45:25 -!- aloril has joined. 23:46:09 what's bad about those shuttles 23:53:02 Bike: http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0609050v1.pdf 23:54:05 shachaf: they are ok in the from-airport direction, I guess 23:54:08 great title 23:54:15 «We consider the 4D effective theory for the light Kaluza-Klein (KK) modes. The heavy KK mode contribution is generally needed to reproduce the correct physical predictions: an equivalence, between the effective theory and the D-dimensional (or geometrical) approach to spontaneous symmetry breaking (SSB), emerges only if the heavy mode contribution is taken into account. This happens even if the heavy mode masses are at the Planck ... 23:54:21 ... scale. In particular, we analyze a 6D Einstein-Maxwell model coupled to a charged scalar and fermions. Moreover, we briefly review non-Abelian and supersymmetric extensions of this theory.» 23:54:25 is this the same one 23:54:26 much slower than a taxi, much more expensive than public transit, but possibly an attractive tradeoff 23:54:28 because: helppppp 23:54:39 in the to-airport direction I've had them show up much later than they said they would 23:54:41 in the other direction you have to show up p. early 23:54:45 yeah 23:55:18 Bike: "In addition, although not conclusively proven, it has long been proposed that the parity violation of the weak interactions was important in producing the essential left-right asymmetry of many organic molecules and of the human body, as reviewed for example in ref.[4]" 23:55:44 oh, http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0609050 this one? 23:56:06 I thought that was what I linked @_@ 23:56:17 i don't click pdfs usually 23:56:20 oh. 23:56:20 i like to know what it is 23:56:24 sorry 23:56:26 "Since oxygen is an essential element in both water, the universal solvent needed for life, and in each of the four bases forming the DNA code for known living beings, we strongly question the hypothesis that a universe without weak interactions could generate life" weak! 23:56:40 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14709773 wow this is a thing in an experimental biology journal 23:57:02 that's a pretty dodgy conclusion 23:57:09 it is 23:57:13 that our biochemistry is the only way to build "living beings" whatever that even means 23:57:14 kmc rejoined #haskell!? 23:57:36 were you not paying attention the last nine times i was gushing about a paper about cyborganisms working better by predicting primates' locomotion decisions 23:57:42 experimental biology is the best, is what i'm saying 23:58:44 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:54 "Division of Rheumatology, Allergy, and Clinical Immunology" this seems like an odd place to tackle these problems from 23:59:08 lexande joined #esoteric!? 23:59:15 usually people do that before getting in the qdb. 23:59:25 `quote lexande 23:59:27 941) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 23:59:38 elliott: I did't! 23:59:41 didn't!~ 23:59:43 and then you have two problems? 23:59:45 `quote kmc 23:59:46 589) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 619) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 690) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 693) has there been any work towards designing programming l 23:59:54 Fiora: yep 23:59:56 kmc: i think you said the cocks thing in #esoteric 23:59:59 oh 2013-06-28: 00:00:00 well 00:00:01 i think no 00:00:05 I know for a fact you've said cocks things in #esoteric 00:00:10 but that cocks thing in particular 00:00:53 Bike: it seems like the thing in this paper is that without the weak interaction you can't have core collapse supernovae, so it's way harder to get interesting elements out into the universe 00:00:54 i was in kmc's Caltech qdb before being accepted to Caltech 00:00:55 i hope we run into l-form aliens 00:00:57 just for fun 00:01:17 Fiora: hmmmmmmmm i remember some stuff about how to form carbon without the usual reactions 00:01:42 unfortunately it was in a pop sci book i don't have 00:01:44 it's not about forming but about getting out of stars, I think 00:01:47 the links were, i mean 00:02:06 like without the weak interaction you'd get a bunch of white dwarfs, I think? I'm not sure 00:02:27 I wonder how bigger stars would collapse 00:02:36 the point seems to be that proton + electron -> neutron is necessary for neutronium to form 00:02:43 and requires the weak force 00:02:50 there's also the thing that neutrinos are a huge part of the supernovae process, I think 00:02:53 like, neutrino pressure 00:02:54 yeah 00:03:08 i assume there'd still be gravitational collapse though? 00:03:14 yeah... geez. that is an interesting question 00:03:18 how would it work 00:03:26 like what would happen if you had a graviationally collapsing iron core 00:03:31 but no weak force 00:03:50 kmc: you're welcome 00:05:12 "weakless universe" sounds kinda cool though 00:05:36 bike wants a strong universe 00:05:47 i wonder what security holes my 2004 era perl quote webapp had 00:06:45 CSRF for sure 00:07:40 csrf is a really annoying sort of bug because you get it from not doing something, as opposed to doing something wrong 00:08:00 yes 00:08:06 (as opposed to, say, buffer overflows, xss, etc.) 00:08:31 i wonder whether there are unknown classes of bugs like that that exist everywhere and no one knows about 00:08:35 why would you want it to be secure by default, why not write a secure code for it 00:08:38 Fiora: maybe i want a universe that isn't so hardassed about strength/weakness dichotomies!! 00:08:53 xss is also framed as from not doing something, "not escaping" 00:09:08 where's the mediocre force, i ask you. the "ok at friendly boxing but can't run" force 00:09:09 that's just silly though 00:09:15 sure 00:09:22 Bike: electromagnetic, right? 00:09:25 it happens because web developers only acknowledge one type 00:09:56 right what 00:10:11 it's the medium force 00:10:13 the mediocre force 00:10:27 i thought gravity was the weakest force 00:10:38 or protons are really light or whatever. 00:10:57 yeah, gravity is like 10^30 something times weaker 00:10:59 than the other 3 00:11:09 "the kind of bullshit force, tbh" 00:11:16 the why bother force 00:11:42 Gravity is so weak i don’t even bother to submit to it. 00:13:38 it's only a theory, right? 00:14:43 i don't click pdfs usually <-- i'm with Bike 00:14:59 I-I'll try to link the arxiv pages from now on instea.d.. 00:15:47 counterpoint: I click all pdfs 00:16:29 counterpoint: i click links whenever Bike doesn't 00:18:16 Fiora: weak is stronger than electromagnetic right? 00:18:40 i thought it was like strong > weak > electromagnetic >> gravity 00:19:02 aren't electromagnetic and weak secretly the same thing somehow 00:19:03 is it? I can never remember >_< 00:19:07 I thought weak was less 00:19:40 wikipedia says strong=10^38 00:19:44 electromangetic 10^36 00:19:46 weak 10^25 00:19:48 and gravity 1? 00:19:52 oh ok 00:20:03 that's a p. big difference 00:20:03 rename gravity superweak force imo 00:20:07 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction 00:22:42 fuck you all 00:22:47 gravity's the best force 00:22:58 but gravity makes event horizons :< 00:23:01 quantum physicists just try to put it down because they can't really work it out 00:23:23 gravity more like depravity 00:23:28 the joke is that gravity is bad 00:24:20 `addquote you know, when people talk about emacs being an OS I doubt what they had in mind was that it needed a package manager 00:24:24 1064) you know, when people talk about emacs being an OS I doubt what they had in mind was that it needed a package manager 00:29:48 yay rust has or-patterns 00:30:18 or-patterns? 00:30:48 patterns that match either of two subpatterns 00:31:21 Oh, as in "p | q => ..." 00:31:31 What happens when they bind variables? 00:31:39 I guess I can test it. 00:31:42 they have to bind the same set of variables at the same types, I think 00:33:06 Looks right. 00:33:37 i'm reading the rust tutorial and also building rust 00:34:09 should I learn rust 00:34:12 maybe I asked that already 00:34:23 yeas 00:34:31 elliott: the tutorial is p. simple 00:34:41 kmc: I like how they're going to take "for" out of the language. 00:34:49 (And then put it back in with a different, more reasonable behavior.) 00:34:53 ok 00:34:59 i like that too, then, I guess? 00:35:15 The point is that it's not all that stable yet. 00:35:20 sure 00:35:20 "oh well" 00:35:32 my first job will be to rewrite all the for loops in Servo, I'm sure 00:36:05 I hear Option is actually represented as a potentially-null pointer at runtime. 00:36:13 i wonder why it has such curly-bracy, non-layout syntax. if it's what they really want or if it's some "people will be scared" thing 00:36:15 I don't know how Option> is represented. 00:36:31 You know how in C you can do things like foo(T *x) { if (x == NULL) return ...; ...; }, without introducing an extra level of nesting? 00:36:41 Is there a nice pattern-matchy of doing that safely? 00:37:12 elaborate? 00:38:01 If you were matching on Maybe, you would say fn foo(x: Maybe) { match x { Nothing => ...; Just(y) => ... } } 00:38:14 kmc: yeah rust's syntax seems erally ugly to me 00:38:17 And everything in the Just case is nested an extra level -- which probably means your entire function. 00:38:18 on a purely aesthetic level 00:39:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:39:43 "You're invited to Human API Hackathon (Jul 6, 2013 - Jul 7, 2013)" 00:39:50 Than Francisco 00:40:18 one day they'll hack that thon for good 00:40:41 will rust have rank-2 types..... 00:40:57 They have type-class-ish things which you can also use as a type and then they become existential. 00:40:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:41:46 -!- sprocklem has joined. 00:41:49 does rust have polymorphic recursion.....i bet the answer is no 00:42:00 does rust support constructor classes...... 00:42:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:42:34 kmc: I found the distinction between one-variant enums and structs kind of odd. 00:42:35 i think no 00:42:38 yes 00:42:42 I was just going to remark on that 00:42:48 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:42:52 I guess it's because structs guarantee memory compatibility with C structs. 00:43:03 So I wonder whether it's better to use a one-variant enum when you don't care about that. 00:43:23 Or maybe you can get them to merge the two! 00:44:08 also it doesn't infer function arg / return types?? 00:44:43 well for top level 'fn' 00:45:01 it does infer them on lambdas, so I guess this amounts to enforcing a rule that GHC warns about anyway 00:45:31 With GHC it's still sometimes nice to write a function and then ask for its type. 00:45:37 sure 00:45:39 Though it's not all that common. 00:45:48 rusti doesn't support :t :'( 00:46:00 boo 00:46:29 The semicolon thing is kind of weird. 00:46:42 You can say { ...; x } or { ...; return x; } but not { ...; x; } 00:47:02 Seems like a very easy thing to accidentally write or forget a semicolon. 00:47:10 I guess x last isn't a statement, in the same waY? 00:47:15 I guess the typechecker would catch most of those kinds of bugs, though. 00:47:16 you can say the latter and it gives you a function returning () right? 00:47:21 Yes. 00:47:37 Well, or a block. 00:47:53 Er, a function. 00:47:54 Never mind. 00:51:09 do you get a warning for a spurious statement? 00:54:52 imo kmc should turn rust into haskell. 00:55:09 haskel über alles 00:55:18 did not care enough to fix typo, hth 00:55:18 rust is already k. haskell 00:55:29 Klansmen's? 00:55:34 c.c 00:55:39 people say "foo is haskell-inspired" a lot when they mean something like list comprehensions 00:55:46 yeah 00:55:51 but rust has more significant similarities than that 00:55:56 Haskell is the cool language to know and be inspired by and never use 00:55:58 of course maybe they're similarities to ocaml or whatever it is 00:56:09 but yeah I think rust is more substantial than that 00:56:12 some language that ends with an l 00:56:16 kmc: you forgot the space 00:56:17 in front of c.c 00:56:17 c.c.c 00:56:17 c.c 00:56:26 Go's interfaces whatever are supposed to be "haskell like" but the language doesn't even have polymorphism 00:56:32 ꙮ.ꙮ 00:56:35 I really doubt any part of Go is explicitly inspired by haskell 00:56:35 `quote haskell-like 00:56:37 870) i'm looking for a haskell-like programming language, meaning that it supports nesting multi-line comments 00:56:41 kmc, do you... have something against being inspired by haskell but not using it? 00:56:51 Phantom_Hoover: not really 00:56:52 read the cconversation man 00:57:04 i mean it's what i do 00:57:07 for the most part 00:57:16 the conversation wasn't giving context! 00:57:21 yeah it was 00:57:57 a complaint is with languages saying they're haskell-inspired when it's something boringer than inference and type constructors and stuff 00:58:28 oh 00:58:36 it's just kmc says that kind of thing a lot 00:58:43 he does that's true 00:58:51 yes I'm bitter and stuff 00:58:56 and PH is annoyed by it 00:58:56 buff 00:59:11 kmc: pigworker pointed out that type classes are a kind of program-inference-from-types, rather than type-inference-from-programs 00:59:19 i'll be really happy when i get into A Field and can feel dumb and behind the times about that instead of wih CS 00:59:30 shachaf: that's cool 00:59:39 Bike: I hear you're a biomathematician......... 00:59:53 come at me bro 00:59:57 isn't that what ian stewart is these days 01:00:27 oh i read one of that guy's books 01:00:30 ..................on biology 01:01:25 my tutor did his phd with him, on animal gaits 01:01:59 ooh oscillators 01:02:07 going to get on this plane soon 01:02:14 Look out for the snakes. 01:02:21 afk (maybe back once I'm on the plane?) 01:02:25 "A group-theoretic approach to rings of coupled biological oscillators." well then 01:02:41 yeah he has all that stuff on his walls 01:02:51 hmmmmmmmmmm did i read one of these papers, lessee 01:02:53 although he did it on insects so he also has a lot of those on his walls 01:03:04 it's quite weird really 01:03:06 insects are animals maaaaan 01:03:26 yes, he did it on them specifically rather than animals in geneal 01:03:27 *general 01:03:52 aww, my book on neuroethological robotics doesn't have any of these 01:03:57 clearly a new anthology is called for 01:07:33 antology 01:09:54 kmc: planes shouldn't ahve internet 01:09:55 it's unhjoly 01:10:12 oerjan: btw, op kmc. 01:10:55 oerjan: nop elliott 01:11:09 @dice 1d2 01:11:09 oerjan: 2 01:11:13 elliott: voice gregor. 01:11:19 uh 01:11:22 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Gregor. 01:11:22 don't voice Gregor 01:11:30 it's mandatory. 01:11:35 elliott: SORRY 01:11:36 elliott how can you fail your constituency like that! 01:11:42 oerjan: does 2 mean you op me instead 01:11:54 1d2 01:11:54 shachaf: 2 01:11:56 btw have you noticed ais523 left for good 01:12:00 No, he’ll nop you instead. 01:12:00 thxambdabot 01:12:02 elliott: it would if shachaf had said "op" instead of "nop" 01:12:24 an advantage of opping me is that i'm already in the access list 01:12:26 less work to just modify it 01:12:28 You haven’t nopped him yet, though. 01:12:35 ion: uh, yes he did 01:12:39 hasn't he, ion? hasn't he? 01:12:47 oerjan: the advantage of opping me is that i'm p. groovy 01:13:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:13:10 Oh, that kind of nop. 01:13:13 Fair enough. 01:13:43 `seen ais523 01:13:45 I want to buy more memory for my work computer :/ 01:13:47 2013-06-21 04:13:29: yeah, me not knowing how they work is a problem for working out ways to program with them, though 01:13:59 `seen ais523_ 01:14:04 not lately; try `seen ais523_ ever 01:14:20 elliott: hm it's been a while 01:14:43 his worldview was inadequate, obviously 01:14:57 just couldn't take the full force of Bike 01:15:07 oerjan: iirc the logs were down when he /parted forever, though. 01:15:41 the codu ones that is. 01:16:08 the logs that is, the logs that isn't, and the logs that may or may not be 01:16:42 shachaf: so are you made of vinyl 01:17:45 vinylly tagless 01:19:46 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:21:11 elliott: this plane doesn't have internet, I'm just tethering while I'm still on the ground 01:21:36 kmc: that's really sad 01:21:41 you're really sad 01:21:44 (not really) 01:21:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:21:51 it's true :( 01:21:56 can you send internet through flight radar 01:21:59 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:22:01 i built rust 0.6 and i'm going to write some rust 0.6 code during this flight 01:22:11 I assume my knowledge will be woefully out of date by the time i land 01:22:12 i'm pretty sure you should find an exploit in the plane software while you're in the hair 01:22:19 air 01:22:23 do some movie shit 01:22:27 redirect to the bahamas 01:23:30 so like, by the time you land 01:23:34 your knowledge will be a bit rusty? 01:23:41 no shut up nooooo 01:23:46 * Fiora giggle 01:23:58 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 01:24:11 Fiora: -____- 01:24:22 glad you got that in before you hit the air 01:24:55 hit the air running 01:25:01 i like the idea that kmc is learning rust on the flight in an emergency before the interview 01:25:12 like "oh shit, I don't actually know any rust" 01:25:21 yeah that's basically the case 01:25:22 is the process of learning rust "oxidizing"? 01:25:22 like 01:25:24 except s/interview/job/ 01:25:25 kmc is oxidizing on his flight 01:25:29 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 01:25:30 whats the difference 01:25:34 well 01:25:36 fair point 01:25:38 job = really long interview that you get paid for 01:25:41 in an at will employment state 01:26:05 yeah some companies only hire through internship / contract work 01:26:13 which is a long interview that you get paid for 01:27:53 truly, isn't life an interview, in the large 01:28:26 `quote monad tutorial 01:28:27 372) oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. 01:28:45 c.c 01:28:56 life is an interview for applying to madoka's^W heaven? 01:29:18 kmc i'm not sure you get the c.c thing 01:29:18 Who was that person who didn't watch PMMM yet 01:29:18 c.c.c 01:29:18 c.c 01:29:24 yessss sgeo 01:29:27 PMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM 01:29:52 I guess it's time for laptop to sleep now 01:29:56 see you all later 01:30:04 have fun a billion feet up 01:30:05 bye 01:30:07 bye byeegan 01:30:09 byyye~ 01:30:21 ∿ 01:32:55 i refuse to say bye 01:32:56 hi kmc 01:33:04 hi elliott ! 01:33:22 Fiora: the new kmc?? 01:33:32 `relcome Fiora 01:33:35 ​Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:33:50 `pastelogs come Fiora 01:33:59 no shachaf.... remember what happened the last time we `*elcomed Fiora!! 01:34:09 I don't think that'll find WeLcOmE or WELCOME or all those things. 01:34:20 elliott: no...........what happened 01:34:26 fuck the18:19 pleez 01:34:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10777 01:34:52 hey remember Fiorara 01:34:53 ....? 01:34:58 I'm not kmc... 01:34:58 Fiorara was cool 01:35:06 fiorarararara? 01:35:17 Fiora: elliott said "hi kmc" and you said "hi elliott !" so the joke was that you were kmc. 01:35:25 That's all. 01:35:41 `run welcome shachaf | tr 'a-zA-Z' 'n-za-mN-ZA-M' 01:35:43 funpuns: Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: uggc://rfbynatf.bet/jvxv/Znva_Cntr. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba vep.qny.arg.) 01:35:47 man 01:35:48 dark times 01:36:03 elliott: please arrange for uggc://rfbynatf.bet/jvxv/Znva_Cntr to be a valid url 01:36:13 invent a new protocol if you have to 01:36:17 shachaf: oh, sorry 01:36:24 Fiora: Why? 01:36:31 um.... for being confusing! 01:36:59 I think *I* was the confusing one here... 01:37:12 You should be mad at me for not apologizing. 01:37:42 ...? why would I be... 01:38:02 No reason. Never mind. 01:38:21 shachaf: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/uggc-protocol/ hth 01:39:06 Meet the Developer: Eli the Bearded. Learn why uggc protocol was created and find out what's next for this add-on. 01:40:12 oerjan: tth 01:41:06 i am not sure whether that lone commenter has got the point. 01:41:35 *reviewer 01:42:06 is this bizarro shachaf 01:46:08 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:07 -!- kgoret has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:48:17 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:01:54 -!- aloril has joined. 02:08:18 shachaf: Syntactically, it *is* a valid URL. 02:08:20 Tada! 02:08:33 yes 02:08:41 but you need like, a scheme, man. 02:08:58 Looks like it matches the generic schema. 02:10:27 I um, wish I knew what that commenter was trying to say 02:10:32 Almost wrote commentor. Thagora 02:16:58 Whoa. 02:17:04 Opus audio on a video file in the wild. 02:19:38 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:20:54 woot 02:21:21 Also fun, Ubuntu's shipped version of mplayer does not support Opus in mkv. 02:21:33 How about mplayer2? 02:21:45 Dunno. 02:21:56 I just know mpv works just fine. 02:24:39 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:28:40 -!- lexande has left. 02:35:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:37:15 -!- Bike has joined. 03:06:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnat). 03:35:23 >:D 03:38:24 http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/come-again-penile-strangulation-by-metallic-rings-retracted-for-duplication/ 03:51:50 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 03:54:25 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozellida pseudofungi!! 04:01:11 ion: little-known fact: that's how kmc got into haskell 04:01:16 (drugz joke) 04:01:25 krr-TSS 04:54:27 mnoqy............... 04:54:35 `smlist 04:54:37 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 04:55:03 mnoqy did you see the top of the page 04:56:44 shachaf: !!!!!! 04:57:00 very exciting and good 05:02:18 mnoqy: also this is a good comic 05:09:11 oerjan: Wait, did you @quit kappabot? 05:09:27 oerjan: That bot is in more channels than just this one, you know! @part is there for a reason! 05:14:36 shachaf: yes it is a good comic 05:15:44 mnoqy: hey what's the cps-encoding of newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) 05:15:52 is it just newtype Fox f = Fox (forall r. f r -> r)............. that doesn't really sound right 05:16:38 depenmds on what you mean by cps-encoding & how faithful you want to be to that newtype 05:16:54 i want the boehm-berarducci-church-etc thing 05:17:04 which turns lists into foldr and all that 05:18:12 thhen thats it yes 05:18:20 you might want to read http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/free-rectypes/free-rectypes.txt if you havent 05:18:43 ok but that's kind of weird because isn't Fix f isomorphic to (forall a. (f a -> a) -> a) 05:19:49 oh ok i'll look 05:20:02 i forget the name for that other thing youre saying woops 05:20:12 i dont have "too much exposure" to it but ive seen it around 05:20:18 well that thing is just the type of fold 05:20:27 fol d:: Fix f -> (f a -> a) -> a 05:20:40 and you can fold with the "initial algebra" or whatever it is to get Fix back 05:20:56 thats what that paper is about :-) 05:21:07 its a tutorial on helping peopel get an understanding of that 05:21:17 ok 05:21:20 or rather a draft draft draft draft draft thereof 05:21:29 is (forall r. f r -> r) really ~ Fix f 05:21:32 like for instance consider f = Const Void 05:21:39 Fix (Const Void) ~ Void 05:21:49 but (forall r. Const Void r -> r) ~ (forall r. Void -> r) 05:21:54 Fix (Const Void) is uninhabited 05:21:55 i i may have oopsed BUT ALSO 05:21:59 theres the thing where 05:22:03 but (forall r. Void -> r) is inhabited 05:22:24 ill just pull up the actuall thing and well settile it once and for all 05:22:35 Lfix X. F X = All X. (F X -> X) -> X. 05:22:41 "th re r you have it" 05:22:50 06:18:44 ok but that's kind of weird because isn't Fix f isomorphic to (forall a. (f a -> a) -> a) 05:22:50 (i oopsed, oops) 05:22:57 looks like the truth was with us all along.... 05:22:57 Yes I geT it 05:23:07 elliott: p. sure edwardk said it was once 05:23:12 but he also said "in haskell" 05:23:23 and there's def. a data/codata thing going on here so maybe that's related?? 05:23:48 because for codata you have (exists a. (a, a -> f a)) ~ Fix f "or something like that" 05:24:02 you can find the eqn for that in the .txt too :) :) 05:24:03 i think that's the least/greatest fixed point thing 05:24:11 mnoqy: HEY I'M GETTING TO THE TXT OK 05:25:12 mnoqy: sorry for yelling :'( 05:25:44 i just dont want to make the mistake again of seeing something that looks sort of like the right thing and saiyng "yes thats the right thing" when really its not 05:26:12 wait which thing are you talking about 05:28:22 21:26:10 newtype Mu f = Mu (forall a. (f a -> a) -> a); data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a) -- build mappings from Mu f -> Nu f and vice versa given Functor f 05:28:44 elliott: Nu (Const Void) also has exactly one inhabitant 05:29:10 :t Void 05:29:11 Not in scope: data constructor `Void' 05:29:21 Bike: data Void 05:29:25 (I.e. a type with no inhabitants.) 05:29:30 yeah i know 05:29:35 just wondering how it like looks 05:29:37 :k Void 05:29:38 Not in scope: type constructor or class `Void' 05:29:41 @let data Void 05:29:42 Defined. 05:29:42 :k Void 05:29:43 * 05:29:48 deep 05:29:54 :k Integer 05:29:55 * 05:30:11 Void can be of any kind with PolyKinds on I think 05:30:14 Gfix X. F X = Exists X. (X -> F X) * X, 05:30:20 whats up with edwardk's Nu 05:30:39 mnoqy: he got it backwards 05:31:00 ah that makes sense 05:31:02 oh that explains why my file says 05:31:03 data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a) 05:31:06 because edwardk said it 05:31:09 the Nu in his recschemes package is 05:31:12 data Nu f whereSource 05:31:13 Constructors 05:31:13 Nu :: (a -> f a) -> a -> Nu f 05:31:17 oh wait 05:31:20 ^^good copy paste ^^ 05:31:22 maybe he didn't get it backwards 05:31:28 no i'm the one who got it backwards just now 05:31:34 help 05:31:35 but it got it correct earlier 05:31:41 when i said (exists a. (a, a -> f a)) 05:32:33 anyway it makes perfect sense 05:32:37 yes 05:32:38 it's just building up a tree and all that 05:33:18 elliott: wait a minute 05:33:25 elliott: i misunderstood again! 05:33:35 (forall r. f r -> r) isn't (forall r. (f r -> r) -> r) at all 05:33:47 I really do doubt that (forall r. f r -> r) is right. 05:33:50 But why isn't it? 05:36:01 Oh. 05:36:13 because i'm bad at things 05:36:32 data Foo a = Foo a ---> newtype Foo a = Foo (forall r. (a -> r) -> r) 05:36:56 data Foo f a = Foo (f (Foo a)) ---> newtype Foo f a = Foo (forall r. (f r -> r) -> r) 05:37:01 Obviously it needs to be an argument. 05:37:21 elliott: OK, so "church"(/boehm-berarducci) encoding of Fix gives you Mu. 05:37:59 Is there a cochurch encoding that gives you Nu? 05:38:38 data Hi a = Hi a ----> data Ho a = forall x. Ho x (x -> a) -- totally making things up right now 05:39:47 OK, I guess there's no point to this encoding. 05:40:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:43:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:55:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Department_of_Fun 05:56:00 https 05:56:28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Department_of_Https 05:56:39 Wikipedia does not have a project page with this exact name. 05:58:37 ok mnoqy i'm going to read that txt file now 05:58:47 ok 05:59:17 mnoqy: what does 'only allowing recursion in positive position' translate to in logic 05:59:31 logic? 05:59:42 sorry that's nonsense 05:59:58 i can't say anything but nonsense ;'" 06:01:40 as far as the category theory goes youre just dealing with endofunctors...recursion in the negative position translates to a contravatiant position and you cant do stuff there 06:02:05 yes but i mean 06:02:06 well 06:02:08 what do i mean 06:02:33 you get all kinds of paradoxes when you have self reference things 06:02:36 that's what i'd like to know 06:02:55 and curry's paradox is the kind of thing that you get with negative position recursion right 06:03:06 and that sort of type lets you do r. evil things if you allow it 06:03:17 but the types with plain old positive recursion don't 06:03:22 sure? 06:03:29 does that mean you can allow "certain kinds of self reference" or something 06:03:38 i don't know 06:23:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 06:31:45 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 06:41:10 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:25:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:32:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:28:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 08:38:12 welp i tried to write some rust code 08:38:17 and got my brain twisted in I think a good way? 08:38:19 time will tell 08:38:32 I was hoping the second line would be "this is not the job for me" 08:38:38 first line had that kinda resignation to it that suggested the possibility 08:38:42 haha 08:39:06 one cool thing is, the type of a reference includes the region over which it's valid, and you can actually name and bind these regions 08:39:26 so a function can return a reference which is valid as long as a particular reference argument is 08:39:58 it's the 'r here: fn get_x<'r>(p: &'r Point) -> &'r float { &p.x } 08:41:22 I tried to implement a lambda calculus interpreter without using any managed boxes but I think that's impossible 08:41:45 without writing your own GC i mean 08:42:17 hi kmc 08:42:22 hichaf 08:42:23 welcome to californeegan 08:42:36 have you been to a california welcome center yet 08:42:48 elliott: "had that kinda resignation to it that suggested that kinda resignation" hth 08:44:00 oh also in rust the sugar for (*x).y is x.y not x->y 08:44:02 "its weird" 08:44:28 yes that's "the cool thing to do" 08:44:31 go does that too i think 08:44:52 mm 08:45:01 well I suppose C doesn't do that because a C compiler is allowed to be dumb as rocks 08:45:02 just like python............... 08:45:24 but more modern languages might want to avoid it because more overloaded syntax => more bad programs typecheck 08:45:29 but maybe there isn't much risk of that in this case 08:46:06 my bag came off the carousel so afk again 08:46:18 adiuaf 09:05:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:22:53 I guess I officially live in San Francisco now :) 09:23:31 `relcome kmc 09:23:37 ​kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:23:38 \o/ 09:23:44 uh \o/ 09:23:45 | 09:23:45 /| 09:23:46 finally a proper use of `relcome 09:23:50 yes 09:23:56 wow myndzi doesn't account for voice 09:24:02 viz. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1011817_10100526803867865_340272139_n.jpg 09:24:10 yes 09:24:13 shachaf: that's what you get for setting empty nick whatever 09:26:45 rust won't let me make a thing like an orphaned instance :( 09:27:03 Really? 09:27:09 Well, orphaned instances are evil. 09:27:14 might relate to the fact that its polymorphism is accomplished through recompiling for each type (a la C++) rather than runtime parametric erasure whatever 09:27:35 but maybe not 09:28:42 kmc: you should join #rust on irc.mozilla.org 09:29:00 i just might do that 09:29:19 you p. know a lot of the p. there anyway 09:29:24 m 09:29:28 d 09:31:24 https://www.imperialviolet.org/2013/06/27/botchingpfs.html 09:31:36 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:43:39 so you're working in sf, right? not coming down to mv? 09:43:52 right, except for the first day 09:44:07 and maybe others from time to time? dunno 10:25:51 Wow, the Mongol conquests killed like 17% of the world population at the time. 11:02:26 -!- dessos has left. 11:16:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:20:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:25:47 -!- sacje has joined. 11:40:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:12:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:42:43 thought experiment: would agda still be cool if it used pascal-style syntax? 12:42:44 imo: no 12:54:58 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 13:05:41 `olist 896 13:05:43 olist 896: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 13:10:00 good `olist 13:12:57 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:25:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:33:56 oerjan: hi 13:37:36 hi there 13:37:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:38:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:39:09 oh hm maybe... 13:39:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 13:39:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:40:52 there we are, back to leguin 13:41:15 (the norwegian server seems to be permanently refusing me) 13:41:36 and the rotation keeps stupidly sending me across the atlantic 13:42:35 you could just specify a server... 13:42:50 elliott: um i just did 13:42:56 to leguin, as i said. 13:43:14 i had gibson in norwegian before, which has refused connections for weeks. 13:43:21 *in norway 13:43:33 oh ok 13:46:42 oerjan: did you see the olist 13:46:44 good olist 13:47:31 not yet 14:04:20 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:07:01 -!- sacje has joined. 14:07:23 oerjan: That bot is in more channels than just this one, you know! @part is there for a reason! 14:07:52 oerjan: That bot is in more channels than just this one, you know! @part is there for a reason! <-- oops sorry :P 14:12:25 oerjan: I interpreted "i had gibson in norwegian" to mean that you had a collection of Norwegian translations of Gibson's novels, and it puzzled me a whole lot as to how exactly were they "refusing connections". 14:12:43 "I'd really like to read this book, but it's refusing connections." 14:12:51 I guess in this e-age of e-books that might happen. 14:15:14 probably 14:16:33 oerjan: exercise: write a function to convert Mu f to Nu f 14:21:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:24:36 shachaf: i don't even remember what those are hth 14:25:07 newtype Mu f = Mu { runMu :: forall a. (f a -> a) -> a } 14:25:16 data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a) 14:25:16 hth 14:39:47 ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA, TODAY IS AN INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY. 14:40:32 every day is an international caps lock day 14:41:00 SO, UH, WHAT'S MU SUPPOSED TO BE? 14:42:02 LIKE, UH, IT TAKES A FUNCTOR ALGEBRA THINGY AND THEN RETURNS THE UNDERLYING THING. 14:42:03 tswett: folds 14:42:39 also it's my birthday hth 14:42:43 oh 14:42:49 LIKE, WHY DON'T WE TAKE [] AS AN EXAMPLE. Mu [] IS forall a. ([a] -> a) -> a, RIGHT? 14:42:52 are you a billion years old now 14:42:57 no, just 43 14:43:27 Happy oerjan++ ! 14:43:44 tswett: [] is a complicated example............. 14:44:05 ALL RIGHT, HOW ABOUT Maybe? 14:44:11 ok 14:44:27 Mu Maybe, THEN, WOULD BE forall a. (Maybe a -> a) -> a. 14:44:27 oerjan: happy birthy 14:44:42 OF COURSE, A (Maybe a -> a) COULD BE PRETTY WEIRD. 14:45:11 ANYWAY, I GUESS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO, IF YOU'RE THIS MU VALUE THING, IS PASS Nothing INTO THAT FUNCTION. 14:45:11 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 14:45:18 hang on hang on 14:45:26 that's the only thing you can do *at first* 14:45:34 THEN YOU'LL GET AN a, WHICH YOU CAN RETURN, OR YOU CAN PUT IT INTO Just AND RETURN THE RESULT... 14:45:37 but after you do that you get an a value 14:45:38 right 14:45:44 OR YOU CAN PUT *THAT* INTO Just AND RETURN THAT RESULT, AND SO ON. 14:45:48 yes 14:45:58 so (Mu Maybe) is... 14:46:10 EFFECTIVELY THE NATURAL NUMBERS. 14:46:14 right 14:46:21 what about Nu Maybe? 14:46:35 exists x. (x, x -> Maybe x) 14:47:27 YEAH, THAT. 14:47:50 what can you do with that? 14:48:11 YEAH, THAT LOOKS LIKE THE NATURAL NUMBERS AS WELL. TAKE THE x, PASS IT INTO THAT FUNCTION, EITHER YOU GET Nothing OR YOU GET Just SOMETHING. 14:48:19 right 14:48:27 or............................................you never get Nothing!! 14:48:27 IF IT'S THE LATTER, YOU CAN PUT IT INTO THE FUNCTION AGAIN, MAYBE YOU'LL GET Nothing THIS TIME, MAYBE YOU'LL GET Just AGAIN... 14:48:46 RIGHT. IT'S THE-NATURAL-NUMBERS-PLUS-INFINITY. 14:48:52 THE CO-NATURAL NUMBERS, AMIRITE? 14:49:07 SINCE, LIKE, ISN'T THIS EFFECTIVELY A COINDUCTIVE DATA TYPE? 14:49:07 ok 14:49:32 yes 14:49:39 so now write a function to turn Mu into Nu 14:49:41 WHAT ABOUT MU, CAN THAT ALSO BE INFINITY? 14:49:52 in haskell it can.....since haskell is ""confused""" 14:50:34 HM. TO ME IT ALMOST KIND OF SEEMS LIKE A COINCIDENCE THAT THOSE THINGS ARE THE SAME THING. 14:50:36 BUT IN ANY CASE... 14:51:47 MU IS A FUNCTION TAKING THE ALGEBRA THINGY AND PLAYING WITH IT AND RETURNING THE ONE WHATEVER THING. 14:52:10 WHEREAS NU IS JUST THE PART THAT GOES IN BETWEEN OR WHATEVER. 14:52:37 shachaf: elliott: thanks 14:53:57 oerjan: in return you can outlaw international caps lock day in the channel 14:54:29 sgtm 14:54:59 ONE THING THAT THE MU COULD BE, I GUESS, IS \f -> f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f $ Nothing, AYE? 14:55:22 tswett: International Caps Lock Day has been outlawed in #esoteric 14:55:33 Now it's time For international shubshub Day. 14:55:48 What's that? 14:56:06 you know, we Never Figured it out 14:56:26 Is It All Right If I Just Capitalize Every Word? 14:56:41 That's Not how It work 14:56:41 s 14:56:46 I dunnO, I don'T thinK thaT woulD bE thE besT ideA pragmaticallY speakinG. 14:57:00 Anyway, what could the Nu be. 14:57:27 Anyway, yes, sure, That's a Good Mu value. 14:57:33 :t \f -> f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f $ Nothing 14:57:34 (Maybe b -> b) -> b 14:57:49 Going backwards... taking a layer off each time... why would you go backwards, why would that be the same thing... 14:58:04 Is it really possible to convert Mu into Nu or is this just an Elaborate practical joke... 14:58:11 > (\f -> f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f . Just . f $ Nothing) (maybe 0 (+1)) 14:58:15 4 14:58:31 It's really Possible to do it. 14:59:20 I mean, if you have the fixed Point of a Type, like, a Data Constructor representing that, then it seems like you can do it. 14:59:41 Like, define data Fix f = F (f (F f)). 14:59:45 well You can Make Whatever data Constructors you Want 15:00:01 Then, uh, the Nu is... 15:00:03 (but Say No To negative Recursion) 15:00:32 that shachaf is always so positive all the time. 15:00:35 (F . Just . F . Just . F . Just . F . Just . F $ Nothing, \(F x) -> x)? 15:01:07 In which Case it seems pretty clear how to convert the Mu into the Nu. Just pass F in and then the other Thing is always that Thing. 15:01:21 (themu F, \(F x) -> x) 15:01:32 Yep. 15:01:34 If my Syntax is correct; I'm not sure you can put the Lambda Symbol directly after a Comma like that. 15:01:50 :t (\x -> x, \y -> y) 15:01:51 (t -> t, t1 -> t1) 15:02:00 The syntax Is Correct but haskell Doesn't Have first-Class Existentials 15:02:01 Yep, you can do that. 15:02:11 So You Would instead make a Data Constructor In ghc 15:02:23 data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a) 15:02:35 Now convert Nu into Mu! 15:02:52 Oh Boy. 15:03:10 Right, it's \themu -> Nu (themu F) (\(F x) -> x). 15:03:29 So right. A Mu is effectively a forall a. (f a -> a) -> a, aye? 15:03:55 Yes. 15:04:07 newtype Fix f = Fix { unFix :: f (Fix f) } 15:04:11 Fix :: f (Fix f) -> Fix f 15:04:18 unFix :: Fix f -> f (Fix f) 15:04:24 SO YOU'VE GOT THIS THING, YOU DOn't know what it is, and you have to, like, effectively use it to guide your Behavior. 15:04:46 What Thing 15:05:06 The first Argument to the Nu Constructor. 15:05:14 also If you Want A Bonus exercise try Turning Nu Into Mu 15:05:16 `quote shubshub 15:05:19 750) STOP CAPITALIZING It's making me feel weird the I has to be capitilized its proper grammer 15:05:37 And then the other Thing is, of course, the second Argument to the Nu Constructor. 15:05:38 oerjan: happy birthy 15:06:13 shachaf: happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday to you. It is likely that quoting any more of the Song would be an Infringement of Copyright. 15:06:24 B'yeah. 15:06:30 i Heard That was Just A rumour 15:06:47 Oops That was improper Grammer 15:07:02 haha, I remember 750 15:07:30 is shubshub the batch script esolang guy 15:07:37 I guess it's essentially, like, you have an a, and an (a -> f a), and an (f b -> b), and you have to appropriately produce a b. 15:07:55 ooh yes 15:08:03 Oh, and you know that the f is Maybe, of Course. 15:08:59 i googled his name and found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOUKwJYhdss wow 15:10:16 esoteric/2012-04-28.txt:10:24:19: I Just added capital lettering to !Py!Batch 15:10:26 So, keep operating on the a until you've gotten rid of all of the, like, a, and then do the same thing in reverse. 15:11:05 s/thing/Thing/ 15:11:36 So the first Thing we need is (a -> (a -> Maybe a) -> Fix Maybe). 15:11:56 And that's just, uh, what should I call it. How about shake. 15:13:18 Lemme interchange the arguments, so it's ((a -> Maybe a) -> a -> Fix Maybe). 15:13:24 shake f x = fmap (shake f) (f x)? 15:13:38 No, we need more constructors. 15:13:48 shake f x = Fix (fmap (shake f) (f x))? 15:14:29 s////////// 15:14:31 Looks right as far as I can tell. 15:14:37 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:14:53 Then you just need to do the reverse. Let's call that one scrunch. 15:15:46 With a Type along the Lines of (Fix Maybe -> (Maybe b -> b) -> b). Yeah, that sounds easy. 15:16:24 I think we should interchange the Arguments again. ((Maybe b -> b) -> Fix Maybe -> b). 15:16:49 by the way you can do hylo :: Functor f => (f b -> b) -> (a -> f a) -> (a -> b) if you prefer 15:17:38 (Which is the same thing, of course.) 15:17:41 hi lo 15:18:33 scrunch f t = f (fmap (scrunch f) (unFix t)) 15:18:54 So you just need to shake and then scrunch. 15:23:17 he wanted to shake my hand but then I scrunched his fingers so hard there was blood everywhere 15:23:47 The metaphor is... a T-shirt or something. 15:23:57 If you want to turn a T-shirt into a hockey puck, what do you do? 15:23:59 You get the idea. 15:24:18 All right, I mUST LEAVE YOU GUYS FOR THE TIME BEING. 15:51:36 nooodl: thanks 15:56:12 itt t-shirts, hockey pucks and burritos 15:57:29 kmc: your job is to find the best place in sf for a vegetarian burrito btw 16:10:00 is shachaf... a vegetarian 16:10:17 no nouning, please 16:10:21 shachaf is vegetarian 16:10:24 it sounds like the kid in the apartment above has recently acquired a marble or something similar. 16:10:47 so, after all, that is what will finally be the end of me. 16:10:59 too many marbles. 16:11:15 just lose some? 16:11:37 it has to be the ones making the noise, Phantom_Hoover 16:18:34 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:21:29 -!- mnoqy has joined. 16:38:30 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:49:38 -!- Bike has joined. 16:54:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:01:16 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:41 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:00 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:48 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 17:54:55 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:55:14 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 18:00:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:13:13 -!- conehead has joined. 18:18:37 shachaf is no-meat-food-seeky 18:37:47 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:55:04 can you even be a vegetarian if you're jewish 19:00:33 -!- olsner has joined. 19:05:53 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:07:30 I had to stop being vegetarian recently. I feel bad about it, but i have to prioritize my health over the wellbeing of production animals. As a health issue i have (had for years before i even began vegetarianism) i have real trouble getting things done. Due to that i just didn’t manage to take care of the increased effort to get all the nutrition i need. 19:08:23 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:52:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:05:37 being vegetarian was fun 20:05:43 but meat is SO GOOD 20:07:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:29:47 I haven’t really got used to the taste of meat yet, it still feels subjectively disgusting. But that’s just a matter of getting used to it again. OTOH, i don’t think the bad conscience is going to go away. :-P 20:34:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:38:09 just start with something easy, like drinking chilled pig blood, and then slowly move up to hunting squirrels and such 20:41:37 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:55:48 ion: wait... are you saying you've NEVER eaten meat before? 20:57:17 koen: I have. 20:57:44 I stopped around 13 years ago. 20:59:43 oh okay that's a long time 21:02:50 Enough for the desire to turn to disgust. 21:22:43 Do the Component Object Model and the Common Language Infrastructure have anything to do with each other? 21:26:42 tswett: hello sir 21:26:51 i would like to purchase an internet 21:26:53 Hi coppro. 21:26:55 do you have any available? 21:27:00 Uh, lemme think. 21:27:20 I don't have any internets here at the moment, but I could create one given... let's say about three to six months. 21:28:28 unfortunately, that timeline is unacceptable to me 21:41:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:45:19 -!- tertu has joined. 21:45:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:47:54 -!- Bike has joined. 21:48:12 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:05:16 i suggest going for an intern e.t. instead hth 22:21:44 What does hth stand for again? 22:21:50 hth, hth 22:21:54 @wn hth 22:21:55 No match for "hth". 22:22:02 `? hth 22:22:04 hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 22:22:23 Hairy toe help. Got it 22:27:34 shachaf: i will let you know 22:29:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:31:26 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 22:39:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:39:54 -!- Bike has joined. 22:44:13 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:44:39 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 22:52:08 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:05:52 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:09:08 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:17:57 coppro: I recommend taking your business elsewhere, hth. 23:18:05 elliott: I'm so glad you're not a baby any more. 23:19:33 he isn't? 23:20:14 Nope. He's two years old now. 23:20:20 wow 23:20:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:22:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:40:27 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:44:23 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:45:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:49:44 -!- sarasic has joined. 23:50:14 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:50:20 @quote like.poetry 23:50:20 DavidJacobs says: Code is like poetry; most of it shouldn't have been written. 23:51:01 (belatedly reading HWN) 23:54:59 -!- sarasic has left. 23:58:44 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 2013-06-29: 00:30:53 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 00:38:25 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:45:26 halp did i broke agora 00:45:35 shachaf: Did you figure out if you can make a Rust "object" (the existential typeclass thingy) with more than one trait? 00:45:42 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 00:46:11 Sgeo: just one day before 20th anniversary? some irony. 00:48:46 Sgeo: no you didn't 00:55:43 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:59:11 kmc: Nope. 00:59:43 I didn't actually try the object thing until just now. 01:05:03 It doesn't look like it's possible... 01:08:23 (But maybe #rust would know.) 01:10:45 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:12:14 kmc: they're talking about traits-as-object-things right now 01:12:55 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 01:28:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:32:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:44:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:45:56 -!- Bike has joined. 01:51:09 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:31 object traitors 02:54:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:56:36 -!- Bike has joined. 03:11:42 Agora's pretty hard to break, in my experience. 03:13:04 ^ 03:17:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Goo knight). 03:19:05 I don't like it that the disk images for the Famicom are all put together into one file; it would be more useful to put each side of each disk as a separate file, isn't it? 03:19:42 zzo38: Seems less convenient. 03:23:08 Perhaps, but that could still be solved by adding a user-defined macro to select one. 03:23:28 tswett, public forum blah blah 03:23:42 Also, probably declaring a nomic as Hostile should have some actual effect 03:24:32 Like aiming Agora's nuclear arsenal at it. 03:25:48 I think maybe there should be a class of nomics called "legitimate nomics", which are nomics that have a recognition other than Unknown or Hostile; rules should generally speak of legitimate nomics, rather than nomics in general 03:26:05 Should be perfectly legal to claim to be the ambassador to a hostile nomic 03:26:12 *Agoran ambassador 03:26:39 If Agora had mechanisms for trading with other nomics, then declaring the nomic as Hostile could shut them off. 03:27:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:28:30 "At any given time, every foreign nomic is Unembargoed, Voluntarily Embargoed (default), or Compulsorily Embargoed. A foreign nomic may switch its embargo status between Unembargoed and Voluntarily Embargoed at any time." 03:29:06 Which, of course, isn't how Agora would phrase that at all. 03:30:07 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:30:47 "Embargo Status is a foreign nomic switch, tracked by the Ambassador-at-Large, with values Unembargoed, Voluntarily Embargoed (default), and Compulsorily Embargoed. A foreign nomic CAN switch its embargo status between Unembargoed and Voluntarily Embargoed by announcement." 03:31:23 "Each Foreign Nomic has an Embargo Status, tracked in the GNDT, ..." 03:33:06 "When this happens, the Sensei SHOULD announce who 03:33:06 the winner was." 03:33:11 Why is that SHOULD and not SHALL? 03:33:56 Hm, good question. 03:34:14 maybe i should found #Esotericists Against Weird Nerd Shit 03:37:09 Bike_, instead of that, you could try to start a war against Agora 03:37:17 Much more fun 03:37:23 i don't think you get the point of the Society sir 03:37:38 (I don't think any nomics that waged war against Agora survived much longer) 03:37:59 Does AA count as waging war? AA will probably live forever technically 03:38:09 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:39:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:39:31 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:39:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:42:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:43:02 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:48:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:51:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:51:12 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 03:58:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:04:21 -!- olsner has joined. 04:14:57 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:22:50 -!- aiRoom has joined. 04:28:03 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:48:12 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:50:02 -!- olsner has joined. 04:59:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:04:47 -!- Bike has joined. 05:17:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:20:54 -!- Bike has joined. 05:33:30 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: NihilistDandy). 06:03:37 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:06:06 -!- aiRoom has quit (Quit: Connection reset by pheer [www.t7ds.com.br]). 06:27:07 -!- sprocklem has joined. 06:29:31 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:32:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:42:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 06:51:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:17:41 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 07:18:23 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:18:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:19:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:22:22 hmm 07:22:40 we need a haskell library where (!) is a disambiguation operator of some kind 07:22:58 so that the fanfiction notation of fic!character or trait!character is valid 07:56:19 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 07:56:22 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 07:56:22 -!- shachaf has joined. 07:58:02 shachaf: #rust on irc.mozilla.org? 08:05:30 shachaf: should I make Rust bindings for udis86? sounds fun imo 08:07:06 kmc: imo do it 08:07:16 it'll become your signature ffi thing 08:08:02 kmc: I was doing some FFIing with ptrace before. 08:16:47 how did that go 08:19:14 i remembered how much fun ptrace is 08:19:22 but it worked more or less 08:21:40 cool 08:25:46 and what did you think of rust's ffi capabilities 08:30:33 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:32:53 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 09:14:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:21:17 02:14 < aatch> but remember that &Trait only started working in last week. 09:22:58 Oh, FFI capabilities. 09:23:20 It seems like some things are a lot of work to FFI-bind safely. 09:23:49 Rust tries to keep track of some things that Haskell doesn't, like array size sometimes and the things you were mentioning. 09:28:59 -!- Amoras has joined. 09:29:56 -!- Amoras has quit (Client Quit). 09:47:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 09:53:55 kmc: remember when i was really terrible 09:54:06 i don't but i looked at my old #haskell logs :'( 09:56:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:00:16 i don't remember either 10:00:19 i could look but maybe i won't 10:00:31 haskell/07.06.13:18:17:23 jfredett: (>>=) temporarily extracts the inside of the monad and gives it to your function, but only if your function promises that it'll return something wrapped in that same monad eventually. 10:00:42 :'( 10:01:35 to be fair other people had given me that explanation first.......... 10:11:27 i think good examples of how thats not true is would be good to have on the wiki 10:11:42 something like "why monads arent burritos" 10:12:36 There are many good examples of why it's nonsense. 10:13:08 ! 10:13:10 you can see me! 10:13:12 im surprised. 10:13:22 i know there are many good examples, but it'd be good to have at hand 10:14:49 I liked Apocalisp's thing: 10:15:01 Okay, what if the monad you're dealing with is, say, a function? How is it going to just give you the value? I imagine the exchange going like this: 10:15:10 You: "Give me the square root!" 10:15:12 Haskell: "The square root of what?" 10:15:15 You: "Just gimme it!" 10:15:17 Haskell: "Dude, I don't have it. You have to give me an argument." 10:15:20 You: "Gah!" 10:15:30 what? lol 10:21:19 i think probably a good example is Cont, where general continuations (and not polymorphic ones) definitely cant be said to contain values 10:21:52 well, sort of. 10:21:55 or, like, functions, man 10:22:03 or, like, proxy 10:22:05 you mean Reader? 10:22:07 like, whoa, dude 10:22:12 i dont know proxy 10:22:23 Reader, more commonly known as (->) 10:22:28 data Proxy a = Proxy 10:22:42 ah, yes, thats a good example 10:22:58 Reader and Cont both can be wedged into a container mold, and still make some amount of sense 10:23:01 of course, Maybe has the same property 10:23:14 id :: Int -> Int does not "contain" an Int in any normal usage of the term 10:23:20 right 10:23:38 but you can view it as a value that is parameterized 10:24:02 i mean, thats much the purpose of Reader, viewing things as values, under some background parameter 10:25:18 thats very much the benefit of monads, often, is letting you think of m a as just an a, with some funny stuff going on in the background 10:25:57 soo what's m (m a) 10:26:00 s/o// 10:26:41 a funny way of being an a with funny stuff going on in the background :) 10:27:23 im really fond of the computation metaphor myself, honestly 10:27:48 m a is a funny way to compute an a 10:27:55 [a] is a []-y way to compute an a 10:28:06 and so forth 10:28:55 but that does make the container metaphor easier to stomach, i feel. 10:29:46 the containers are just the computations, not actual boxes 10:29:59 stretched metaphor, but 10:30:28 stretaphor 10:39:43 IO (IO a)) 10:43:20 I don't see the point of any metaphors, really 10:43:50 All you need to understand monads is either return,join,fmap or return,bind 10:44:13 a monad is like a useful abstraction.have fun 10:44:35 Where bind or join are where the magic happens 10:47:35 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:48:18 mnoqy: not having fun yet 10:48:52 yeah me neither 11:10:17 -!- nortti has changed nick to oonbotti. 11:10:31 -!- John_Metcalf has quit (Quit: John_Metcalf). 11:12:20 -!- oonbotti has changed nick to nortti. 11:22:35 -!- nortti has changed nick to oonbotti. 11:22:54 -!- oonbotti has changed nick to nortti. 11:29:33 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:30:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:52:59 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 11:54:48 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:22:23 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:24:06 17:10:23 it sounds like the kid in the apartment above has recently acquired a marble or something similar. 12:24:09 17:10:47 so, after all, that is what will finally be the end of me. 12:24:11 17:10:59 too many marbles. 12:24:15 oerjan: it's ok, eventually you'll lose your marbles anyway 12:43:15 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:54:40 -!- sacje has joined. 13:10:44 -!- nortti has changed nick to oonbotti. 13:11:23 -!- oonbotti has changed nick to nortti. 13:26:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:32:04 -!- conehead has joined. 13:42:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:48:36 -!- Vorpal has joined. 13:52:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:53:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:55:44 oerjan: hi i hear youre older now. happy birthy 13:59:35 thank you, although it's over now 13:59:43 (i'm still older though) 14:10:45 happy post-birthy 14:20:28 thank you 14:28:30 oerjan: it's ok, eventually you'll lose your marbles anyway <-- THAT'S THE JOKE. or despair, whatever. 14:31:05 it can be both if you want 14:46:10 THAT'S THE SOMETHING 14:47:27 it can be both even if you don't want 14:48:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:49:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:07:23 (I don't think any nomics that waged war against Agora survived much longer) <-- i suspect technically no nomics other than agora "survived much longer" in general. 15:08:08 oerjan: um B!!!! 15:08:12 well. 15:08:18 technically that died like a decade ago 15:08:38 what is the second oldest nomic these days? 15:09:41 > 1179027/86400 15:09:41 13.646145833333334 15:10:08 oerjan: um, probably blognomic? 15:10:21 > (1179027/86400 - 13)*24 15:10:22 15.507500000000007 15:10:27 circa 2003 15:10:30 er 15:10:46 > (14-1179027/86400)*24 15:10:47 8.492499999999993 15:11:00 or wait hm 15:11:11 hm why does blognomic's header have a statement of the principle of extensional set equality in it right now 15:11:16 > 583042/86400 15:11:17 6.748171296296296 15:11:51 > (7-583042/86400)*24 15:11:53 6.043888888888894 15:12:49 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 15:13:09 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*perdito@*.pool.mediaWays.net. 15:13:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:13:23 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.*. 15:13:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:15:43 -!- nortti has changed nick to []{}. 15:15:44 elliott: this dynasty's about logic 15:15:46 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 15:15:53 or something 15:15:54 -!- []{} has changed nick to nortti. 15:15:56 Hmm, if I wanted to get someone into nomic, BlogNomic might be an easier start I guess? 15:17:21 elliott: oerjan: um, probably blognomic? << I think Blognomic was started in 2005... I'm not sure that makes it the oldest 15:17:31 also I don't know if you wanna count the frc 15:17:36 it's 2003 15:17:40 i looked it up 15:17:43 oh frc :P 15:18:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:18:16 i don't think of it as an "ordinary" nomic, but of course it's slightly older than agora. 15:19:28 By Agora's definitions, it is a nomic, right? 15:20:17 Just a nomic with a slightly odd rule changing mechanism 15:20:20 so is canada. 15:20:39 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:20:46 *so ARE canada 15:20:50 15:20:53 yay.. esoteric in full colour 15:21:17 `relcome 15:21:19 Actually, I guess that other canada is dead 15:21:20 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:21:42 thank you master oerjan 15:21:47 *so is Canadum 15:24:50 -!- nortti has changed nick to oonbotti. 15:25:12 -!- oonbotti has changed nick to nortti. 15:34:24 maybe i should found #Esotericists Against Weird Nerd Shit <-- that's like Cannibals Against Eating Meat, right? 15:35:45 * oerjan is reminded about that motor bus latin joke 15:36:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motor_Bus 15:38:18 Taneb: did you learn that in class? :P 15:46:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:48:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:07:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:11:09 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:13:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:42:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:02:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:06:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:06:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:10:17 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:24:05 Good idea/bad idea? Taking a brand new $650 smartphone into the shower 17:25:13 bad hth 17:26:40 Too late 17:28:05 my mind boggles at how you managed it 17:28:53 The phone in question is supposed to be somewhat waterproof -- resistant for 30 minutes submerged 1 meter deep 17:29:19 ...are you ircing from the shower. 17:29:27 No. Although I did consider it. 17:30:07 The screen needs to be dry to process input properly, which kind of sucks. 17:34:00 i found out my ipad isn't waterproof "the hard way" 17:34:08 did it die 17:35:14 nope 17:40:29 ... then it's waterproof? 17:41:40 oops i was gone 17:41:47 "Hold down the Info button for a few seconds, and the TG-2 becomes a very expensive flashlight." (Waterproof camera review.) 17:42:07 :-D 17:42:09 well it wasn't a lot of water, but some of it got in the headphone jack and i had to dry it out 17:42:26 (It can turn the focus illumination led on like that.) 17:56:33 Sgeo: Galaxy S4 Active? 17:56:59 kmc, yes 17:57:15 "Samsung has already made a splash with its feature-rich smartphone the Galaxy S4. Now it is hoping to generate enthusiasm for a Galaxy S4 variant that can survive one, in most circumstances." 17:57:19 that is... strained 17:58:06 haha 17:59:08 maybe I'm just too stupid at this moment to connect pronouns 17:59:55 shachaf: I realized that the operational difference between composition and inheritance is less significant in C++, where you can have members of object (not reference-to-object) type 18:00:08 also is there a good concise term fro "object (not reference-to-object) type" 18:00:56 I'm honestly more interested to know if it's drop-proof... it hasn't particularly been advertised as such, but that's why I bought it 18:04:16 Some people argue about whether MAME/MESS is free software and open source. 18:06:46 kmc: maybe "object value type" 18:08:02 mm 18:08:40 can't get shorter than what you said without getting ambiguous I think 18:17:14 "objectvaluetype" 18:18:21 OVT 18:20:24 thing 18:20:51 "object value type" was already ambiguous though 18:22:53 also I don't know how e.g. JVMs lay out subclasses; maybe they do have pointers to superclass objects 18:23:06 but I doubt it because you should never need virtual inheritance without MI 18:41:08 A ""object (not reference-to-object) type" in C++ is a structure type, isn't it? 18:41:38 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:42:41 you could call it that 18:42:58 but someone might think you mean POD structures by that 18:44:41 What is that? 18:47:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_data_structure 18:48:42 is POD like, a language-independent term for 'struct'? 18:48:54 i thought it was a c++ term of art 18:51:33 What's wrong with UDT for that? 18:51:53 Fiora: it stands for "plain old data" but I think mainly C++ people use it? maybe java people too and I think they use it to mean something else 18:51:59 oh kmc already linked 18:52:04 yeah I don't think it has a consistent cross-language meaning 18:53:13 note that a C++ POD can have non-virtual methods 18:54:04 there is also POJO.. which is used by java programmers quite often.. (see also POCO for c..same meaning) 18:54:16 this doesn't sound all that plain! 18:54:25 because those are sort of just ordinary functions that take an implicit first argument 18:54:32 and old 18:56:02 so does anyone understand the stone-weierstrass theorem because it seems real cool 18:56:27 plain old c object? 18:56:49 Bike: it involves numbers 18:56:49 yolo 18:56:59 no it doesn't! 18:57:03 yea, but reading further the term seems to be used more in the c# community 18:57:06 @kmc 18:57:06 Maybe you meant: src rc ghc 18:57:07 you old live object 18:57:20 literally no numbers the relevant wikipedia article section!! 18:57:29 numbers suck, imo. 18:59:57 analysis is all numbers!! 19:00:13 what kinda fucked up analysis you doin son 19:00:58 analysis is building a tower on some crazy ol axioms 19:18:29 Real analysis sucks; complex analysis is the way to go. 19:18:34 One milliatyllion is 10^2^1002. 19:18:46 Preferably it should be handled algebraically, because who likes doing anything analytically? 19:20:13 Differential algebras rule, man. 19:21:05 Huh 19:21:17 I'm just as bored now as I was yesterday when my router was bust 19:21:22 Also! 19:21:33 But I don't *actually* know how to do complex analysis purely algebraically. 19:21:45 Very early yesterday morning, someone mistook me for, and I quote, "that guy who invented Facebok" 19:21:48 *Facebook 19:22:00 Hm, neat. 19:22:48 For reference, I bear no resemblance to Mark Zuckerberg whatsoever 19:24:33 Let's see. If f is a holomorphic function, does the differential equation dy/dx = f(x) necessarily have solutions in neighborhoods of the origin? 19:25:22 Well... yes. Integrate both sides. Boom. 19:25:39 Does every holomorphic function have an integral which is also holomorphic? You'd hope so. 19:26:00 Does it make sense to speak of a holomorphic function C x C -> C? 19:28:05 A bunch of people said I looked like James Bond 19:28:14 But that made more sense because I was wearing a dinner suit 19:28:25 And am tall with dark hair 19:28:28 I don't think there's such a thing as "looking like James Bond", is there? 19:28:36 Daniel Craig doesn't look like Sean Connery. 19:28:49 One of my friends went into quite some depth about it 19:29:24 He said that while I bore little resemblance to any particular incarnation of James Bond, I looked as though I could have been an incarnation unto myself 19:30:35 On account of my dress and the way I was carrying myself 19:30:39 And also what I was drinking 19:30:47 martini? 19:31:04 Heineken, which I am told sponsors the franchise 19:31:25 Now, if f is a holomorphic function in x and y (which hopefully means something), does the differential equation dy/dx = f(x,y) necessarily have solutions in neighborhoods of the origin? Pretty sure you can come up with a Taylor series, at least. 19:31:57 For some bizarre reason it was being sold in 2/3 pint glasses 19:32:01 Not all power series define functions, though. Here's one that doesn't: f(x) = 0! x^0 + 1! x^1 + 2! x^2 + 3! x^3 + 4! x^4 + ... 19:32:16 `? people whom Taneb is not 19:32:21 people whom Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:32:21 | 19:32:21 º¯`\o 19:33:04 `run echo "elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond" > wisdom/people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not 19:33:07 No output. 19:33:10 `? people whom Taneb is not 19:33:11 people whom Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:33:12 | 19:33:12 o/`¯º 19:33:14 `? people who Taneb is not 19:33:16 people who Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:33:16 | 19:33:17 º¯`\o 19:33:20 :( 19:33:22 I suck 19:34:51 `? people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not 19:34:52 Lower the case? 19:34:53 people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:34:53 | 19:34:54 o/`¯º 19:35:12 you have to lowercase that t in the filename, yes 19:35:13 ISTR wisdom looks for lowercase files. 19:35:54 `run mv wisdom/people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not wisdom/people\ who\ taneb\ is\ not 19:35:58 No output. 19:36:06 `? people who taneb is not 19:36:08 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 19:36:12 `? people who Taneb is not 19:36:13 elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond 19:38:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:38:57 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:40:43 since there are a lot of people whom Taneb is not, I think it would be better if it selected a few at random every time 19:42:01 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:57:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:02:46 I suppose my religious views might be classified as panendeism, although some of my views differ from what is common in any classification. 20:11:50 How do the features of Black-C fit into the stuff about POD structures and so on? 20:11:58 What is it called when f (g(a), a) = g(a) for all a? 20:12:29 For all a in the domain of g 20:12:47 Taneb: I don't know. 20:12:58 It's sort of a fixed point? 20:13:04 But a fixed curve 20:13:15 Taneb, snd 20:13:23 uh 20:13:24 fst 20:13:44 :P 20:13:51 I mean something like "g is a fixed curve of f 20:13:52 " 20:14:10 Well, that is one thing that meets this description, but I think you mean in general, not just one specific function. 20:14:19 ...apply? 20:14:25 Phantom_Hoover: ???? 20:14:44 full disclosure, i have no idea what the fuck kind of notation Taneb is using 20:14:44 f can be defined for (x, y)s s.t. x is not g(y) 20:14:54 for example, for any y that isn't in the domain of g, as Taneb said 20:15:07 isn't it just f(g(a), a) = g(a). like. normal math 20:15:07 or even if y is in the domain of g and x just happens to be equal to something other than g(y) 20:15:56 When f(a, b) is b^(b^(a *b + 1)) and g(a) = 1/(1-a), for example 20:15:58 i am terrifically confused 20:16:14 Phantom_Hoover: aren't you like... studying mathematics. at university 20:16:14 ok, so, you don't need g, do you? 20:16:17 (don't ask how I found that example.) 20:16:22 doesn't f(x,y) = x satisfy Taneb's equation then 20:16:23 you can just say f(b, a) = b for all b in some set. 20:16:28 yes 20:16:30 satisfies, but it's not the only possibility. 20:16:31 but that doesn't mean other functions don't 20:16:49 Phantom_Hoover, it does satisfy it 20:16:58 f(x,y) = x if x is an integer, otherwise -1 20:17:01 for instance f(x) = x has a fixed point but we don't call the property of having a fixed point "being identity" :P 20:17:06 It is not a name for the bunch of things that satisfy it 20:17:39 oh, wait, no, a, what am i saying. 20:19:18 oh `i get it now' 20:21:47 i feel like this is probably too conceptually muddy to have a name 20:22:16 yeah 20:23:04 It is a pair of functions f and g where g has domain A and codomain B and f has domain (BxA) and codomain B such that for all x in A, f(g(x), x) = g(x) 20:23:09 Did I write that correctly? 20:23:36 g's domain can be smaller than A. 20:23:49 also your notation is v. verbose 20:23:49 so you have g : X -> Y and f : (Y, X') -> Y' where Y isin Y' and X isin X', is what i was thinking of messaging but didn't 20:23:52 how about 20:23:55 right what Bike said. 20:24:00 except "in" is wrong it's subset. but whatever. 20:24:05 oh yeah durr. 20:24:17 i don't actually use tex :-( 20:24:34 I don't think it's even \isin I just interpreted it informally. it's ok I forgive you 20:25:11 anyway and for all x in X, f(g(x),x) = g(x) big whoop 20:25:32 maybe there's a name for something a bit generalized. like saying f(g(x),x) = h(x) instead or somethin 20:25:40 btw this all actually has a purpose 20:25:50 what the fuck is a purpose 20:25:57 It's a bit like a dolphin 20:26:01 o 20:26:34 You know, the first in line to the throne of France 20:31:26 Can anyone just suggest a good name for it, then? 20:31:45 a "Taneb function" 20:32:23 definition: a function satisfying the Taneb condition on the two Taneb spaces, X and Y 20:33:52 `? d-modules 20:33:54 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 20:34:08 `? tanebventions 20:34:10 Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders 20:34:21 question: are d-modules a taneb space 20:34:42 If you believe with all your heart, then maybe they are! 20:34:46 :) 20:34:50 (1) is an automatic squirrel feeder like a crow vending machine (2) do squirrels live in Taneb space 20:34:51 trick question, all spaces are Taneb 20:35:18 Bike, (1) it's more like a seesaw and (2) yes 20:35:53 sweet 20:46:01 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:56:01 -!- nortti has changed nick to oonbotti. 20:56:13 -!- oonbotti has changed nick to nortti. 21:11:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:20:37 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 21:20:52 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 21:42:02 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortti_. 21:42:24 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to shikhin. 21:42:38 -!- shikhin has changed nick to nortti. 21:53:42 -!- dvorakbot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:57:19 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 22:06:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:08:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:09:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:11:05 -!- Bike has joined. 22:19:34 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:05 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 22:20:20 oonbotti2: test 22:20:20 Very interesting. 22:25:05 fungot: test 22:28:41 hint: fungot is not here 22:29:42 not here!? how can this be? 22:30:03 fizzie: !!! 22:31:08 `? fungot 22:31:11 fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. 22:33:27 `quote fungot 22:33:28 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 15) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea 22:33:58 I guess that'll have to suffice then 22:34:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:10 -!- fungot has joined. 22:35:13 How is it that a headphone jack can be made waterproof (so it doesn't need a cover) but a USB port cannot? 22:35:34 fungot: are you waterproof? 22:35:34 (Imma asleep.) 22:35:35 olsner: fnord iood haha ok safari opened it after about two months time, i'll start posting some of my libraries uses them under plt 22:36:31 sleep must not prevent our mission critical bots from functioning 22:45:30 this book very funny: http://jbot.de/zwwHC 22:45:58 unix haters handbook 22:46:41 hmm, 350 pages too, which page is the funniest? 22:46:59 161 22:48:43 let's have the letter from bruce howard on 258 :) 22:51:14 so does anyone understand the stone-weierstrass theorem because it seems real cool <-- well i used to do so, anyway. 22:51:32 back in oerjan's understanding-things days 22:51:42 dark days indeed 22:52:15 I feel like I'm shilling for Samsung every time I mention my phone. How do I make that feeling go away? 22:52:27 stop mentioning ur phone 22:52:35 but i also love the "evolution of a programmer"..a good snack on 251 22:52:50 so true 22:55:16 Does every holomorphic function have an integral which is also holomorphic? You'd hope so. <-- yes, iirc the taylor series have the same radii of convergence around each point 22:55:23 Sgeo: or, if you must mention your phone, just stop mentioning the make and model of it 23:02:23 "In each case, our code was compiled using GCC version 4.5.1 with either the -O3 flag set or the -O1 flag set, whichever resulted in faster code (except for [...] which performed significantly better when compiled with GCC 4.1.2 using the -O1 flag)" isn't that grand 23:03:41 what're you reading? 23:04:38 that nsa thing 23:05:20 "the simon and speck families of lightweight block ciphers" 23:08:29 the cipher is like ten lines of c, i'm kind of curious what differences they could get 23:14:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:17:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:39:58 in that case it may be worth to check the assembly 23:44:28 did you know that decrementing a value in a loop can be significantly faster then incrementing it? some compilers optimize the assembly so it makes no difference.. but without optimization the assembly code is ..yea..just longer (more steps) 23:48:01 That's because it's easy to check if something is zero 23:48:16 But to compare two values, you have to subtract and then check if it's zero 23:48:23 right 23:52:15 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:52:54 It adds up over many loop iterations 23:53:18 Although it probably doesn't matter unless you are really trying to pull out max performance 23:53:33 yes 23:53:38 By then you might be writing the assembly yourself anyway 2013-06-30: 00:04:07 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:25:41 I wish dvorakbot were here. 00:25:47 He really brightened up this channel. 00:25:51 -!- dvorakbot has joined. 00:25:55 * tswett sighs wistfully. 00:28:11 dvorakbot: what did you do again? 00:28:22 Same thing as la_fen. 00:28:39 $u a 00:28:40 U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A (a) 00:29:10 List of dvorakbot's commands: http://pastie.org/8095682 00:29:21 $newcard oerjan 00:29:22 Card 1: oerjan 00:29:33 Congratulations on being a card. 00:29:45 eek 00:29:59 $moveallto deck 00:29:59 Cards moved. 00:30:06 $draw 00:30:07 No cards in draw pile. 00:30:14 Whoops. 00:30:16 $moveallto draw 00:30:16 Cards moved. 00:30:18 $draw 00:30:19 Card drawn. 00:30:23 I wonder what card it is! 00:30:50 $newcard orson 00:30:51 Card 2: orson 00:32:56 what happens to these cards? 00:33:02 where are they? 00:33:07 $where 1 00:33:08 In pile: tswett's hand 00:33:10 $where 2 00:33:11 Nowhere 00:33:16 $where 3 00:33:17 KeyError: 3 (file "/Users/tswett/Documents/Hobbies/Programming/Python/phenny/modules/dvorak.py", line 139, in where_card) 00:33:32 dvorakbot handles all errors gracefully. 00:35:31 aha, now i know ur local username! 00:36:15 Uh oh. Now you can )(4xx0r4t3 me. 00:39:10 >:D, i am so 1337 at that 00:40:13 s;top 00:41:50 only you can stop them elliott 00:42:27 or was it forest fires, i'm not sure 00:42:28 actually that was directed specifically at bike hth 00:42:41 `factor 1337 00:42:43 1337: 7 191 00:42:48 hmm, wasn't it oerjan who could stop forest fires? 00:42:55 pretty sure it was oerjan. 00:43:08 i'm pretty sure i've never tried stopping a forest fire 00:43:34 though I'm sure fungot could say that to lots of people if it wanted to 00:43:35 olsner: you should do it. thanks for pointing out a pro ( or con). modulo a b) 00:43:57 modular arguments 00:47:04 ‮"oof" < 00:47:58 ‮.rof si retcarahc siht tahw erus toN 00:49:45 Hm. "The right-to-left override, for example, can be used to force a part number made of mixed English, digits and Hebrew letters to be written from right to left." 00:53:45 would you mind to reactivate bike elliott? 00:55:00 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:55:52 $newcard clog 00:55:53 Card 3: clog 00:55:54 $newcard EgoBot 00:55:56 Card 4: EgoBot 00:56:02 $newcard fngot 00:56:03 Card 5: fngot 00:56:06 Whoops. 00:56:28 $delete 5 00:56:29 Card deleted. 00:56:31 $newcard fungot 00:56:31 tswett: the best explanation of what he meant 00:56:32 Card 6: fungot 00:56:32 dvorakbot: but if i start generating absurd amounts of money from my sick leave and i have 0.8.6 running on this computer 00:56:33 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 00:56:56 This channel has a lot of bots. 00:57:05 $newcard HackEgo 00:57:06 Card 7: HackEgo 00:57:07 $newcard lambdabot 00:57:08 Card 8: lambdabot 00:57:11 $moveallto draw 00:57:12 Cards moved. 00:57:13 $shuffle draw 00:57:15 Pile shuffled: Draw pile. 00:57:47 tswett: can you also define rules? or are they defined someway? 00:58:02 Nope, the rules are just whatever you've previously agreed on. 00:58:43 The bot is unfinished, but it's also usable. It can do almost everything DvorakMUSH, I think it was, can do. 00:59:49 ahh.. i think i know that one 01:05:15 tswett: is dvorak a popular game where in the US? 01:05:35 Nope, I think it's completely obscure worldwide. 01:06:16 oh if it's the game i know it's spoken "durak" and means "fool" in russian 01:06:59 and it's quite popular in germany ..so 01:07:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 01:09:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:24 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:14:25 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to noloveinwaikiki. 01:22:47 * oerjan suddenly recalls a silly norwegian children's song about a many-headed monster remembering his love affair in hawaii 01:23:07 :) 01:23:54 do you think you can find a version on the net? 01:25:04 okay.. it's not that important 01:25:14 don't mean to waste your time 01:25:47 "not available in your country" :/ 01:25:55 yt video? 01:26:26 oh there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Htk_XLPuWs 01:26:48 great <3 01:28:30 -!- noloveinwaikiki has changed nick to hagb4rd. 01:34:23 turns out that video was recorded in trondheim 01:34:29 <- there 01:34:51 oerjan: can I come visit 01:34:53 *mysticwindblowing* 01:34:58 :P 01:35:51 elliott: you can come to trondheim but we can never meet there hth 01:35:58 oerjan: but what if I bring taneb 01:36:14 hm, tricky 01:43:48 http://distractionware.com/games/flash/vvvvvvproto/ 01:44:03 This music doesn't seem to be in PPPPPP or VVVVVV 01:51:49 kmc, http://www.souleye.se/adventure has songs that are on VVVVVV 2 but not 1 (I didn't even know there was a 2) 01:53:02 is... is there a reason kmc is pinged 01:54:10 maybe because he's interested in that stuff 01:54:29 or because sgeo is evil 01:54:47 01:55:07 Because kmc has expressed liking of PPPPPP previously 01:55:25 and here i was going with the sgeo is evil hypothesis 01:55:44 WHY NOT BOTH hth 01:56:15 hth hth hth hth 01:56:19 monoids hth monoids hth monoids 01:56:49 ok 01:57:06 -!- elliott has set topic: The channel for helpful people | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 01:57:15 > fix ("monoids hth" <>) 01:57:16 "monoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids ... 01:57:19 oops 01:57:22 hthmonoids 01:57:43 `? monoids 01:57:46 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 01:58:58 `learn hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids hthmonoids ... 01:59:02 I knew that. 01:59:49 `run mv wisdom/hthmonoid{s,} # hth 01:59:52 No output. 01:59:59 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:00:30 i think this hth and monoids thing is getting a little out of hand. 02:00:55 easy hth hand 02:01:09 i think it's gotten a lot out of hand & has gone from being kind of ««««ironically»»»» silly to just silly & also poop dumb 02:01:55 Bike: but. 02:02:09 Butt 02:02:18 Bike: going further than is reasonable until it starts being funny again is arguably the whole idea here!! 02:02:21 hth. 02:02:33 that has never worked ever 02:02:49 maybe you just haven't tried enough, hth 02:09:02 seriously? it's not as bad as it sounds..and maybe a direct consequence of that long-year-relationships grown in this channel.. but there's a lot of "insider" jokes or references made here.. they're cool sure, but may in worst case (which is not a tragedy) keep newcomers out.. 02:09:37 but it's really not a problem 02:09:48 i think 02:10:13 most newbie are welcomed and always given a chance here 02:10:19 *newbies 02:13:08 on the other hand that is what makes a good community..development and preservation of culture 02:14:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:17:01 shit i don't have any skin.. hope you can make any sense of this 02:17:05 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:17:33 ...not the last line, no 02:17:48 development of culture? 02:18:00 "shit i don't have any skin" 02:18:06 oh this part 02:18:07 :) 02:18:22 oerjan don't be so intolerant, if we can have bicycles we can have horrific jumbles of flesh and bone 02:18:37 i don't have a lymphatic system :) 02:18:55 I don't have an emphatic system 02:19:01 the joke is Bike sux 02:19:30 that one didn't really work so well :( 02:20:10 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:20:43 bike jokes are tired and flat 02:20:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:21:01 ... 02:24:37 -!- sacje has joined. 02:28:20 wow 02:29:21 mnoqy: now what 02:29:40 yeah 02:30:16 AOL is a commonly recognized root CA? 02:30:31 if you say so 02:33:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:37:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:14:18 -!- ggherdov has joined. 03:27:47 and now for something completely different 03:28:41 yes 03:32:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 03:38:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:50:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:36:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:42:51 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 05:42:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:42:23 -!- Bike has joined. 06:00:38 Quoting from a message on Chess Variants: "What is the interface of Chess and reality? Is Chess the unreal? Or the other way around. ... If Chess existed first, why not invent a Reality to conform to it? What reality would that be? ..." 06:00:56 chesseality, imo. 06:02:20 I did write a reply. My own point of view is that mathematics is the real reality. 06:06:11 `thanks reality 06:06:13 Thanks, reality. Theality. 06:06:51 fizzie: a truce has been established. I am now neutral on speech recognition 06:07:37 what 06:08:02 ok, I still hate it a little. 06:08:47 why would you give up your non-biology-related principles! 06:09:06 if you think about it speech recognition = biology. 06:09:40 Can a game be defined with sequent calculus in a symmetric way? I have been able to define the subtraction game although the rules aren't symmetric for each player; the first player has to select a rule to follow (if the proof is working from bottom to top), while the second player selects which sequent above the line will be the next state. 06:09:55 but the only similar thing between them is that you hate them! and that' snot even true any mroe! NOTHING IS REAL ELLIOTT 06:10:08 Bike. shut up. 06:10:29 also, speech recognition = humans = biology 06:11:08 No! They are related in this way, but it is different kind of things. 06:13:13 If there is a single sequent above and a single below the line, then you can define single-player games, such as sokoban. The axiom schema is positions with one player, any number of empty spaces, any number of crates-on-targets, and nothing else. 06:14:17 Therefore, any solvable game is a theorem of this system. 06:14:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 06:15:49 Can you make anything similar, or make a better two-player game with this? 06:17:21 elliott: zzo38's right here, man. it is different kind of things! 06:21:15 @messages? 06:21:15 Sorry, no messages today. 06:21:18 Yay 06:24:17 -!- sprocklem has joined. 06:28:37 I have another idea about sequent calculus. Define a "macro" to mean following many rules, in a polymorphic way (but not necessarily as polymorphic as the original rules), and put together to form a single admissible rule. Therefore, a "theorem" is really a "macro" with nothing above the line. Isn't it? 06:47:54 kmc: least and greatest fixed points are so much imo 06:48:13 you should, like, learn about them and stuff 06:48:36 That reminds me 06:49:10 I need to write a blog post/essay/talk relating Taneb-style fixed curves to control-passing-style 06:54:18 Taneb: What are those things? 06:54:44 A pair of functions f and g such that f(g(x), x) = g(x) 06:54:53 splines? 06:55:13 o no.. 06:55:24 that's more specific 07:00:09 no, it's absolutely somethin different 07:03:29 Bugger, I've made a stupid mistake 07:03:55 Okay, this has totally failed 07:04:25 Taneb: maybe you can answer my questions about fixed points instead then... 07:05:24 i like banach's fixed points. they're p. good. 07:06:26 do you like Knaster-Tarski theorem.... 07:06:31 I thought I was onto something deep 07:06:43 But I made the mistake of saying the xth root of x was 1 07:06:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fixed-point_theorems 07:06:47 tarski's fixed points are also p. good 07:06:48 help 07:07:20 have you seen the stuff about assigning truth values to weirdass sentences based on tarski's fixed points 07:07:23 pretty cool imo 07:07:51 no but i heard about "definedness analysis and liveness analysis" or something 07:07:55 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 07:08:00 Hang on 07:08:08 It approaches 1 as x approaches infinity! 07:08:10 What does it mean to "assign truth values to weirdass sentences based on tarski's fixed points"? 07:08:11 This could be useful! 07:08:21 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Client Quit). 07:08:26 uh lemme look 07:08:44 * Bike dives into pile of pdfs 07:09:37 Bike: is that like the logic equivalent of zeta regularisation 07:10:11 No, I still can't make that assumption 07:10:40 Taneb: also numbers have, like, more than one root. 07:11:26 ugh where the hell is this paper. it was good 07:12:28 and no it's not like zeta regularization very much 07:12:42 hey Bike 07:12:56 have you informed tarski that lattice theory is a waste of time b. you should really be doing category theory instead 07:13:20 Bike: well I mean, in spirit. 07:13:34 * Bike sighs. 07:13:35 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 07:13:54 wow tarski's paper has about 2400 cites. 07:13:58 imo, fuck. 07:14:25 imo read them all 07:14:28 http://www.springerlink.com/index/H880Q5G6M9661313.pdf here, something about "categories" that cites it. ur welcome. 07:16:16 $39.95 hooray 07:16:58 ok found it http://comet.lehman.cuny.edu/fitting/bookspapers/pdf/papers/TruthFalse.pdf 07:17:45 it involves things being true and false because, like, lol. 07:18:32 also it's actually kripke's not tarski's?? so you can tell him yourself shachaf. 07:18:45 lol 07:18:58 cheers 07:19:06 hth 07:20:41 i knew taneb's thing looked familiar. it's like an IVP where f = f', which is dumb but oh well 07:21:15 or like a differential equation rather. 07:21:16 a dumb one 07:25:06 Maybe the truth behind Assassin's Creed is that a logic with the axiom "forall x. x is false" is inconsistent 07:25:24 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:25:35 comp_Monoid_Elements_is_assoc : forall x y z, multiply_Monoid_Elements x (multiply_Monoid_Elements y z) = multiply_Monoid_Elements (multiply_Monoid_Elements x y) z 07:25:41 I'm thinking there might be a way of making that shorter. 07:26:31 Taneb: Well, unless "forall" and "is false" is sufficiently restrictive, then yes it probably is inconsistent. 07:27:22 What does x range over, there? 07:27:27 If its domain is empty, then that axiom is true. 07:27:37 i bet you couldn't find an x such that ¬x is true!! 07:28:00 Now, a logic with the axiom "not P" for all formulas P would definitely be inconsistent. 07:28:29 tswett, the joke is, that when this is combined with the principle of explosion, you get "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" 07:28:37 tswett: I don't think that is necessarily inconsistent either if the logic is sufficiently restrictive. 07:28:54 Taneb: hm, sounds true. 07:29:13 Here, have a picture. http://i.imgur.com/tKns3wi.jpg 07:29:29 Seen it a dozen times at least 07:29:43 still good though. 07:29:52 It isn't inconsistent unless all well-formed strings are theorems. 07:30:30 zzo38, what if the axiom itself is in its domain 07:31:21 Taneb: Well, of course it is in its own domain, but I don't think that changes what I said. 07:31:46 Because then it is trivially true (it is an axiom), but also false! 07:33:17 Taneb: you have? 07:33:22 But maybe it isn't necessary "true" or "false" but can be a theorem or nontheorem, since "false" might not necessarily be meaningful in a logic such as this. 07:33:22 Taneb: well, feast your eyes on this! http://i.imgur.com/tKns3wi.jpg 07:33:39 tswett, I've seen that at least a baker's dozen times! 07:33:54 Yay, you said the thing I was hoping you were going to say. 07:33:55 zzo38, shh it was a bad joke 07:36:56 I would like to learn how to use a sword 07:37:00 And also how to ride a unicycle 07:37:05 Perhaps not at the same time 07:45:55 All right. So, given an object in a category, its endomorphisms form a monoid. 07:46:03 This feels like a natural transformation. 07:47:13 Maybe it's just a functor. 07:47:32 From the category of categories to the category of monoids. 07:47:49 Mm, no, that would mean that it turns every category into a monoid. 07:48:04 This one, given a category, turns all of that category's objects into monoids. 07:48:29 Are you just talking about a subcategory with one object? 07:48:42 Yeah, I guess I am. 07:53:48 -!- itsy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:58:55 -!- sprocklem has joined. 08:10:32 Taneb: Do you not want to learn to use a sword while riding a unicycle while blindfolded? 08:10:51 Yeah, why not 08:17:55 -!- itsy has joined. 08:18:17 It's the World Egg Throwing Championships today :-) 08:39:00 constructivism, more like destructivism 08:39:07 the joke is that constructivism is bad 08:51:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:52:23 -!- oonbotti2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:42 -!- oonbotti2 has joined. 08:56:40 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:02:06 `pastelog the joke is 09:02:23 `pastelogs the joke is 09:02:43 hi kmc 09:02:49 hichaf 09:02:54 why can't i paste logs 09:02:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14280 09:03:00 because no patience 09:03:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20487 09:03:04 thackego 09:03:18 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:03:42 how's sf 09:05:03 good 09:05:42 did you know that fixed points are the best thing in the world 09:05:59 there was a huge party in the middle of the street in the castro 09:06:11 i heard about such things 09:06:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:06:38 oh 09:07:23 also a huge number of people in dolores park before that 09:07:48 nice park 09:08:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:08:44 -!- oonbotti has joined. 09:09:08 -!- oonbotti2 has left. 09:10:49 so which this F-Fix thing 09:10:55 There's a category F-Fix(C) where an object is (X : C, f : X <-> F X) and an arrow (X, f) -> (Y, g) is an arrow h : X -> Y such that fmap h . f = g . h 09:11:06 s/which/with/ /me sighs 09:11:54 so if you have a forgetful functor : F-Fix(C) -> C does it have a left adjoint 09:12:05 by C i mean Hask btw 09:12:12 i'm a forgetful functor 09:12:19 oh i guess not in general because that would be a monad 09:12:50 kmc: me too 09:13:04 kmc: is the joke that you left adjoint unsmoked in sf 09:13:23 or maybe that's the opposite of the joke 09:13:37 -_- 09:14:00 kmc doesn't like drugz jokes 09:14:03 if we reduce kmc to just drugz all the time we'll drive him to drink 09:14:03 :'( 09:14:06 [drinkz joke] 09:14:18 thats ok i already drink all the time 09:14:36 at this particular moment it is i who have reduced myself to drugz 09:14:39 drinkz <: drugz 09:14:47 you're off the hook for that 09:14:53 how many drugz did you drugz 09:15:06 in quantity or in number of different kinds 09:15:31 yes 09:16:34 i'm drugz but only metaphorically 09:16:55 somebody told me that all things are composed of drugs, math, and cardboard in varying ratio 09:16:57 fixed points are drugz 09:17:00 fixed pointz 09:18:40 elliott: driving someone to drink is good 09:18:45 why 09:18:52 otherwise they might drink and drive 09:30:11 There's a new series of PSAs on avoiding drinking and driving going on on a local TV station, they're very cute. 09:30:34 There's a drinking bird and a drinking fish. 09:30:47 kmc: should I stop making kmc drugz jokes 09:34:16 if kmc minds all these tasteless kmc drugz jokes i'll stop making them too 09:37:34 -!- mnoqy has joined. 09:40:30 can't promise I'll stop making them but I might be able to install some kind of weekly quota 09:40:42 hi mnoqy 09:40:47 hi 09:40:59 should i refrain from bugging you about fixed points like i've been bugging everyone else 09:41:08 btw fixed points are p. great 09:41:10 hm most likely 09:41:30 hm ok 10:01:30 kmc: look how great we are re: faq 10:13:27 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:38:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:50:16 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:00:16 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:22:53 -!- oonbotti has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:23:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:23:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:24:36 -!- Koen__ has joined. 11:24:36 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:40 shachaf: What is your fixed point? 12:17:37 > let shachaf = \x -> (fix x shachaf,shachaf) in fix shachaf 12:17:38 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 12:17:38 t2 = ((t2 -> t0) -> t2... 12:17:47 > let shachaf = \x -> (shachaf x,shachaf) in fix shachaf 12:17:48 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t1 = (t1, t2)Occurs check... 12:21:33 > let shachaf = fix in fix shachaf 12:21:34 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> a0 12:21:34 Expected t... 12:21:42 > let shachaf = fix shachaf in fix shachaf 12:21:43 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> a0 12:21:47 Ok 12:37:39 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:58:47 -!- sacje has joined. 13:25:30 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 13:25:58 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:12:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:28:00 -!- intosh has joined. 14:28:38 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:31:30 Is the sequence of the even naturals computable by a push down automaton 14:35:26 how does a push down automaton compute naturals? 14:36:03 hi oerjan 14:36:07 hi shachaf 14:36:16 any clues on fixed points 14:36:18 That is a question 14:36:42 Taneb: even a finite automaton can _recognize_ them, after all. 14:37:15 Some form of printy dealy? 14:38:12 i suspect they cannot, if printing a number means you have to look deep in the stack 14:38:29 because that obviously erases most of it 14:39:46 hm does a pumping lemma apply to output as well? 14:40:50 that'd be a pumpout lemma 14:41:05 shachaf: only that Knaster-Tarski was missing the Fixed-point theorem category. which i've now fixed. 14:41:26 (ok i guess i have learned some fixed-point theorems in my time.) 14:41:47 oerjan: plz add redirect knaster-tarski ----> Knaster–Tarski theorem 14:41:58 i just went to that page and it didn't exist 14:42:11 thx hth wwod 14:42:21 shachaf: um surely you'd get a direct suggestion. i think that's overdoing it. 14:42:36 uh 14:42:50 have you seen the redirect pages wikipedia has 14:43:48 shachaf: well it shows up if you _search_ for knaster-tarski, anyhow. 14:44:21 oerjan: anyway read http://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/fixed+point instead 14:44:36 it's p. good as nlab pages go 14:48:20 too tired 14:48:32 * oerjan thinks he may have a cold 14:50:37 hm what does the pumping lemma correspond to directly on pd automata. 14:51:26 hm i think a pd automaton with only output is sort of equivalent to a pd automaton that accepts only one input... 14:51:41 (well, if deterministic.) 14:53:02 in this case the accepted input is infinite, but i doubt that makes much of a difference? 14:55:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:55:27 Taneb: i think that's equivalent to asking if the language of strings of the form "2,4,...,2n" (with your chosen output representation) is context-free. 14:56:29 i'm pretty sure the pumping lemma disallows that. 14:57:22 in fact you don't even need to restrict it to _even_ naturals, it cannot produce the naturals themselves. 15:09:02 Now, a logic with the axiom "not P" for all formulas P would definitely be inconsistent. <-- hm is intuitionistic logic inconsistent with that? 15:10:21 if you cannot deduce P from not (not P), then it's no longer _obvious_ that you can get an inconsistency from that... 15:10:25 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:11:05 If a : not (not P) and b : not P, then a b : False. 15:11:39 oh right duh 15:12:14 you need to disallow False -> P somehow. 15:14:20 Disallow ex falso quodlibet? 15:14:37 yeah 15:15:24 isn't that what paraconsistent logics do, or maybe they just don't allow you to deduce false 15:15:44 I think both are options. 15:16:01 But I think it's more common for (P and not P) not to imply False. 15:16:29 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:16:34 ok 15:17:24 because if you wanted to keep the intuitionistic definition of not P = P -> False, the other option would seem better 15:25:00 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: reboot). 15:26:45 -!- longsight has joined. 15:31:07 holy shit my electric razor short circuited 15:37:36 -!- longsight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:37:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:45:40 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:54:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:56:54 `addquote I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time 15:57:01 oh wait 15:57:04 `revert 15:57:07 Done. 15:57:11 `revert 15:57:18 * oerjan confuses himself 15:57:21 1065) I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time 15:57:24 Done. 15:57:34 `quote 1065 15:57:36 No output. 15:57:41 `revert 15:57:44 Done. 15:57:47 Taneb, how hard is it to use a sword... 15:57:54 wait wtf did i actually revert 15:57:57 `quote 1065 15:57:57 Phantom_Hoover, not hard 15:57:58 1065) I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time 15:58:01 But well? 15:58:09 `help 15:58:09 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 15:58:13 That is another matter entirely 16:00:28 `? HackEgo 16:00:30 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 16:01:13 has anyone ever called it HackBot 16:02:17 Gregor hth 16:03:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:04:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:06:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:24:33 -!- hagb4rd has changed nick to hagb4rd|afk. 16:27:06 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:27:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:46:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:48:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:04:20 -!- longsight has joined. 17:04:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:07:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:10:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds). 17:11:34 -!- intosh has left. 17:15:55 My computer's power button is broken 17:17:35 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:17:56 basically electronics are collapsing all over the globe hth 17:31:05 -!- nortti has changed nick to ^[. 17:31:54 -!- ^[ has changed nick to nortti. 17:33:27 -!- nortti has changed nick to [\]. 17:33:39 -!- [\] has changed nick to nortti. 17:34:35 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:37:33 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 17:37:47 -!- Bike has joined. 17:39:50 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:43:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:48:27 -!- olsner has joined. 17:56:49 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:58:19 -!- Bike has joined. 18:04:41 I can't seem to force myself to give myself over to Feedly 18:05:54 -!- longsight has left. 18:06:11 is this a sex thing 18:06:15 be honest 18:10:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:12:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:13:02 Ok, so power button _sometimes_ works 18:13:10 Depending on how I jiggle it I think 18:13:36 Yes, my computer is that physically broken that the power button is somewhat mobile 18:21:25 hint: buttons usually move when you press them 18:32:23 Is there any technical reason it wouldn't be possible to waterproof a USB port? 18:34:31 maybe it's because most usb peripherals aren't waterproof, so there wouldn't be much of a point 18:35:07 There would still be a point though: More room for user error, so if the USB cover is accidentally left open, it's not a big deal 18:38:00 -!- sprocklem has joined. 18:41:22 Sgeo, what do you... what does that even 18:41:46 sure, just enclose it in a watertight housing 18:41:47 Are you talking about the power button or waterproof USB ports? 18:42:10 With the "what does that ever" 18:42:12 even 18:42:13 dammit 18:42:31 but that'd be a probably-needless expense 18:47:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:53:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:02:21 -!- conehead has joined. 19:05:43 so I'm watching this espionnage show and they're always like "rendez-vous at the swimming-pool, this way I'll be sure you're not carrying a listening device" 19:06:09 I'm waiting for any one of them to realize they could just enclose it in a plastic bag and tadaaaaa water-proof 19:06:12 reminds me of the simpsons 19:06:47 it may be water-proof, but is it anal-proof? 19:06:56 what does that even 19:07:26 i believe the main idea is that you don't wear much clothes at the pool 19:07:35 having a hard time hiding equipment 19:07:42 besides, well... inside yourself 19:07:51 oh 19:07:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:07:57 normal swimming trunks have plenty of space to hide a bug 19:08:24 well he explained it several time as "even if you managed to hide a device in your bathing suit, the water would shortcircuit it" 19:08:58 and although the camera keep wandering around all the women in bikini, the men are wearing large swimming trunks as alsner said 19:09:01 olsner sorry* 19:09:14 another question is: if it is water-proof, will it still work? 19:09:20 yeah, would a waterproof bug pick up the above-water sound properly? 19:09:35 can you still record stuff inside a water-proof bag? 19:09:43 well it doesn't have to stay underwater it just has to resist getting wet 19:10:24 and yeah if it's a thin layer of plastic you should be alright 19:11:01 a condom works pretty well..no joke 19:11:18 you should be a spy 19:11:22 used that on a mike under water 19:11:28 -!- hagb4rd|afk has changed nick to hagb4rd. 19:11:30 oh you're already a spy! 19:11:44 spypig M 19:11:48 oinki oink 19:12:19 btw what the heck are ya talking about5 19:12:37 bugs in swimming pools 19:12:42 is taneb still not james bondß 19:12:49 aw 19:12:50 ok 19:13:56 hagb4rd: do condoms work with usb ports? 19:14:07 shit i was just typing that 19:14:16 :-) 19:14:27 it's worth a try 19:15:09 why would you fuck a usb port? 19:16:25 i mean, it can't be THAT small, can it? 19:16:41 tight usb port 19:16:51 fresh and nasty usb 19:16:58 yummy 19:17:32 that's stupid 19:17:53 let's talk about sth else 19:18:01 esoteric languages or sth 19:18:26 what is your favourite esolang sgeo? 19:19:37 or koen or myname or whoever reads this 19:19:53 mine is still befunge 19:20:12 I have to pick a favourite esolang?! 19:20:17 u can 19:20:17 nobody warned me 19:20:21 I don't have a favorite esolang. I do have a favorite esolang-related project: PSOX. 19:20:35 (Note: PSOX not necessarily actually favorite esolang-related project) 19:20:35 what's this? 19:20:44 I guess I like those which are very original, like /// or Thue 19:20:56 well "string-replacement" is more accurate than "original" 19:21:06 I like the graph one... is that eodermdrome? 19:21:19 ah, that 19:21:21 I would probably like eoderdrome if I had ever took time to understand it 19:21:51 @google site:esoolang.org PSOX 19:21:52 No Result Found. 19:21:59 @google site:esolang.org PSOX 19:21:59 No Result Found. 19:22:04 fuck u lambda 19:22:05 esolangs 19:22:08 @google site:esolangs.org PSOX 19:22:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX 19:22:08 Title: PSOX - Esolang 19:22:15 thx 19:22:16 string rewriting is nice because you can find it in the wild so often 19:22:44 why do I have a picture of sunflowers in my head 19:23:22 olsner: is that a joke or do you have examples? 19:24:10 e.g. sed (though it's quite overtly doing string rewriting, so I'm not sure it counts), mod_rewrite, sendmail 19:25:33 no sunflowers eh 19:25:42 you and I don't have the same definition of the wild 19:26:12 indeed, wild animals hardly ever use sendmail, in favor of SMS 19:26:50 spoken poetry 19:27:35 in that kind of wild I guess you see cellular automata more (which might actually be the same thing if you think about it right) 19:28:28 what was the name of the esolang which interpretes midi files again 19:28:35 flute 19:28:35 no 19:28:44 there are at list two 19:28:49 oh wow 19:28:51 well? 19:28:53 there are at least two 19:29:02 .. 19:29:08 ... 19:29:23 how are they named? 19:29:26 but you could make a list with two items 19:29:37 oh you're not talking to me 19:29:42 Fugue was one 19:29:43 prelude and fugue 19:29:47 fugue! 19:29:49 right 19:29:54 like, you know, the musical form. 19:29:59 that one is quite embarrassing 19:30:09 yea, i forgot 19:30:16 that word 19:30:31 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?search=music 19:30:38 apparently Choon produces music as output 19:31:37 and it really sounds not bad 19:33:47 i looked up embarrassing and its totally not the expected meaning.. wow 19:33:55 erm i mean it's awesome 19:33:59 let's have awesome 19:34:20 plain old awesome languagew 19:43:57 A text adventure game on a thirty-column display seems to be limited. 19:45:26 what display has 30 columns? 19:45:47 a phone? 19:46:10 If you take overscan into account so that the leftmost and rightmost columns are not used, then the Famicom will have only thirty columns available. 19:47:55 zzo is programming his washing-machine again 19:49:30 maybe it's a chinese text adventure.. they don't neeed much space, also they often write top-down (vertical)? 19:49:33 If a font is used which is good in all uppercase, that can simplify the text decoding. 19:50:34 No, it isn't a Chinese text adventure. 19:50:41 okay.. 19:51:53 (I don't really think Chinese (or any other language that cannot be written with ZSCII) is really suitable for text adventure games, as far as I can tell.) 19:52:17 sry, i somehow missed the kickoff infos 19:52:27 zscii is the universal standard of gaming, after all 19:52:29 just go agead 19:52:36 * hagb4rd shuts up 19:53:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:53:29 @google zscii 19:53:31 http://inform-fiction.org/zmachine/standards/z1point0/sect03.html 19:53:31 Title: The Z-Machine Standards Document 19:53:44 Bike: No, not really; this has nothing to do with ZSCII in particular, I just mean that they are what is available in the ZSCII character set, not that it necessarily has to do anything with ZSCII. 19:57:36 :( is my Esc key seriously broken? ugh 19:59:02 How do I know? 19:59:29 Sgeo: yes, I went into your home and broke it 19:59:35 is that your phone again sgeo? 20:00:02 otherwise remap to ..erm..caps lock ..or scrolllock 20:00:23 and get a washable keyboard 20:03:52 i promised myself to buy a washable one next time 20:05:01 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:06:36 I almost got "Aimfiz" Z-machine interpreter working, except text styles. 20:06:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 20:13:22 hagb4rd, no, the laptop I'm using now 20:24:49 `slist 20:24:51 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 20:27:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:30:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:33:22 wtf http://www.wekkars.com/ 20:35:39 brilliant 20:35:41 haha. 20:37:46 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 21:03:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:15:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:17:35 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:03:18 quintopia: does stuff matter? 22:06:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:07:03 oerjan: please apply your frying pan to yourself 22:08:33 In case you don't have a frying pan handy, here's one you can use: ⊸ 22:08:41 Unfortunately, it's very small. 22:10:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 22:12:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:16:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:24:20 okay ⊸ 22:24:31 why does it look like a square tdnh