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00:45:26 <Sgeo> halp did i broke agora
00:45:35 <kmc> shachaf: Did you figure out if you can make a Rust "object" (the existential typeclass thingy) with more than one trait?
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00:46:11 <oerjan> Sgeo: just one day before 20th anniversary? some irony.
00:48:46 <coppro> Sgeo: no you didn't
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00:59:11 <shachaf> kmc: Nope.
00:59:43 <shachaf> I didn't actually try the object thing until just now.
01:05:03 <shachaf> It doesn't look like it's possible...
01:08:23 <shachaf> (But maybe #rust would know.)
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01:12:14 <shachaf> kmc: they're talking about traits-as-object-things right now
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02:14:31 <oerjan> object traitors
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03:11:42 <tswett> Agora's pretty hard to break, in my experience.
03:13:04 <coppro> ^
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03:19:05 <zzo38> I don't like it that the disk images for the Famicom are all put together into one file; it would be more useful to put each side of each disk as a separate file, isn't it?
03:19:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Seems less convenient.
03:23:08 <zzo38> Perhaps, but that could still be solved by adding a user-defined macro to select one.
03:23:28 <Sgeo> tswett, public forum blah blah
03:23:42 <Sgeo> Also, probably declaring a nomic as Hostile should have some actual effect
03:24:32 <tswett> Like aiming Agora's nuclear arsenal at it.
03:25:48 <Sgeo> I think maybe there should be a class of nomics called "legitimate nomics", which are nomics that have a recognition other than Unknown or Hostile; rules should generally speak of legitimate nomics, rather than nomics in general
03:26:05 <Sgeo> Should be perfectly legal to claim to be the ambassador to a hostile nomic
03:26:12 <Sgeo> *Agoran ambassador
03:26:39 <tswett> If Agora had mechanisms for trading with other nomics, then declaring the nomic as Hostile could shut them off.
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03:28:30 <tswett> "At any given time, every foreign nomic is Unembargoed, Voluntarily Embargoed (default), or Compulsorily Embargoed. A foreign nomic may switch its embargo status between Unembargoed and Voluntarily Embargoed at any time."
03:29:06 <tswett> Which, of course, isn't how Agora would phrase that at all.
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03:30:47 <tswett> "Embargo Status is a foreign nomic switch, tracked by the Ambassador-at-Large, with values Unembargoed, Voluntarily Embargoed (default), and Compulsorily Embargoed. A foreign nomic CAN switch its embargo status between Unembargoed and Voluntarily Embargoed by announcement."
03:31:23 <tswett> "Each Foreign Nomic has an Embargo Status, tracked in the GNDT, ..."
03:33:06 <Sgeo> "When this happens, the Sensei SHOULD announce who
03:33:06 <Sgeo>       the winner was."
03:33:11 <Sgeo> Why is that SHOULD and not SHALL?
03:33:56 <tswett> Hm, good question.
03:34:14 <Bike_> maybe i should found #Esotericists Against Weird Nerd Shit
03:37:09 <Sgeo> Bike_, instead of that, you could try to start a war against Agora
03:37:17 <Sgeo> Much more fun
03:37:23 <Bike_> i don't think you get the point of the Society sir
03:37:38 <Sgeo> (I don't think any nomics that waged war against Agora survived much longer)
03:37:59 <Sgeo> Does AA count as waging war? AA will probably live forever technically
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07:22:22 <coppro> hmm
07:22:40 <coppro> we need a haskell library where (!) is a disambiguation operator of some kind
07:22:58 <coppro> so that the fanfiction notation of fic!character or trait!character is valid
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07:58:02 <kmc> shachaf: #rust on irc.mozilla.org?
08:05:30 <kmc> shachaf: should I make Rust bindings for udis86? sounds fun imo
08:07:06 <shachaf> kmc: imo do it
08:07:16 <shachaf> it'll become your signature ffi thing
08:08:02 <shachaf> kmc: I was doing some FFIing with ptrace before.
08:16:47 <kmc> how did that go
08:19:14 <shachaf> i remembered how much fun ptrace is
08:19:22 <shachaf> but it worked more or less
08:21:40 <kmc> cool
08:25:46 <kmc> and what did you think of rust's ffi capabilities
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09:21:17 <shachaf> 02:14 < aatch> but remember that &Trait only started working in last week.
09:22:58 <shachaf> Oh, FFI capabilities.
09:23:20 <shachaf> It seems like some things are a lot of work to FFI-bind safely.
09:23:49 <shachaf> Rust tries to keep track of some things that Haskell doesn't, like array size sometimes and the things you were mentioning.
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09:53:55 <shachaf> kmc: remember when i was really terrible
09:54:06 <shachaf> i don't but i looked at my old #haskell logs :'(
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10:00:16 <kmc> i don't remember either
10:00:19 <kmc> i could look but maybe i won't
10:00:31 <shachaf> haskell/07.06.13:18:17:23 <shachaf> jfredett: (>>=) temporarily extracts the inside of the monad and gives it to your function, but only if your function promises that it'll return something wrapped in that same monad eventually.
10:00:42 <shachaf> :'(
10:01:35 <shachaf> to be fair other people had given me that explanation first..........
10:11:27 <augur> i think good examples of how thats not true is would be good to have on the wiki
10:11:42 <augur> something like "why monads arent burritos"
10:12:36 <shachaf> There are many good examples of why it's nonsense.
10:13:08 <augur> !
10:13:10 <augur> you can see me!
10:13:12 <augur> im surprised.
10:13:22 <augur> i know there are many good examples, but it'd be good to have at hand
10:14:49 <shachaf> I liked Apocalisp's thing:
10:15:01 <shachaf> Okay, what if the monad you're dealing with is, say, a function? How is it going to just give you the value? I imagine the exchange going like this:
10:15:10 <shachaf> You: "Give me the square root!"
10:15:12 <shachaf> Haskell: "The square root of what?"
10:15:15 <shachaf> You: "Just gimme it!"
10:15:17 <shachaf> Haskell: "Dude, I don't have it. You have to give me an argument."
10:15:20 <shachaf> You: "Gah!"
10:15:30 <augur> what? lol
10:21:19 <augur> i think probably a good example is Cont, where general continuations (and not polymorphic ones) definitely cant be said to contain values
10:21:52 <augur> well, sort of.
10:21:55 <shachaf> or, like, functions, man
10:22:03 <shachaf> or, like, proxy
10:22:05 <augur> you mean Reader?
10:22:07 <shachaf> like, whoa, dude
10:22:12 <augur> i dont know proxy
10:22:23 <shachaf> Reader, more commonly known as (->)
10:22:28 <shachaf> data Proxy a = Proxy
10:22:42 <augur> ah, yes, thats a good example
10:22:58 <augur> Reader and Cont both can be wedged into a container mold, and still make some amount of sense
10:23:01 <shachaf> of course, Maybe has the same property
10:23:14 <shachaf> id :: Int -> Int does not "contain" an Int in any normal usage of the term
10:23:20 <augur> right
10:23:38 <augur> but you can view it as a value that is parameterized
10:24:02 <augur> i mean, thats much the purpose of Reader, viewing things as values, under some background parameter
10:25:18 <augur> thats very much the benefit of monads, often, is letting you think of m a as just an a, with some funny stuff going on in the background
10:25:57 <shachaf> soo what's m (m a)
10:26:00 <shachaf> s/o//
10:26:41 <augur> a funny way of being an a with funny stuff going on in the background :)
10:27:23 <augur> im really fond of the computation metaphor myself, honestly
10:27:48 <augur> m a is a funny way to compute an a
10:27:55 <augur> [a] is a []-y way to compute an a
10:28:06 <augur> and so forth
10:28:55 <augur> but that does make the container metaphor easier to stomach, i feel.
10:29:46 <augur> the containers are just the computations, not actual boxes
10:29:59 <augur> stretched metaphor, but
10:30:28 <shachaf> stretaphor
10:39:43 <FreeFull> IO (IO a))
10:43:20 <FreeFull> I don't see the point of any metaphors, really
10:43:50 <FreeFull> All you need to understand monads is either  return,join,fmap  or  return,bind
10:44:13 <mnoqy> a monad is like a useful abstraction.have fun
10:44:35 <FreeFull> Where bind or join are where the magic happens
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10:48:18 <shachaf> mnoqy: not having fun yet
10:48:52 <mnoqy> yeah me neither
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12:24:06 <elliott> 17:10:23 <oerjan> it sounds like the kid in the apartment above has recently acquired a marble or something similar.
12:24:09 <elliott> 17:10:47 <oerjan> so, after all, that is what will finally be the end of me.
12:24:11 <elliott> 17:10:59 <oerjan> too many marbles.
12:24:15 <elliott> oerjan: it's ok, eventually you'll lose your marbles anyway
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13:55:44 <mnoqy> oerjan: hi i hear youre older now. happy birthy
13:59:35 <oerjan> thank you, although it's over now
13:59:43 <oerjan> (i'm still older though)
14:10:45 <nooodl> happy post-birthy
14:20:28 <oerjan> thank you
14:28:30 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: it's ok, eventually you'll lose your marbles anyway <-- THAT'S THE JOKE. or despair, whatever.
14:31:05 <mnoqy> it can be both if you want
14:46:10 <oerjan> THAT'S THE SOMETHING
14:47:27 <olsner> it can be both even if you don't want
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15:07:23 <oerjan> <Sgeo> (I don't think any nomics that waged war against Agora survived much longer) <-- i suspect technically no nomics other than agora "survived much longer" in general.
15:08:08 <elliott> oerjan: um B!!!!
15:08:12 <elliott> well.
15:08:18 <elliott> technically that died like a decade ago
15:08:38 <oerjan> what is the second oldest nomic these days?
15:09:41 <oerjan> > 1179027/86400
15:09:41 <lambdabot>   13.646145833333334
15:10:08 <elliott> oerjan: um, probably blognomic?
15:10:21 <oerjan> > (1179027/86400 - 13)*24
15:10:22 <lambdabot>   15.507500000000007
15:10:27 <elliott> circa 2003
15:10:30 <oerjan> er
15:10:46 <oerjan> > (14-1179027/86400)*24
15:10:47 <lambdabot>   8.492499999999993
15:11:00 <oerjan> or wait hm
15:11:11 <elliott> hm why does blognomic's header have a statement of the principle of extensional set equality in it right now
15:11:16 <oerjan> > 583042/86400
15:11:17 <lambdabot>   6.748171296296296
15:11:51 <oerjan> > (7-583042/86400)*24
15:11:53 <lambdabot>   6.043888888888894
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15:15:44 <Koen_> elliott: this dynasty's about logic
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15:15:53 <Koen_> or something
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15:15:56 <Sgeo> Hmm, if I wanted to get someone into nomic, BlogNomic might be an easier start I guess?
15:17:21 <Koen_> elliott: oerjan: um, probably blognomic? << I think Blognomic was started in 2005... I'm not sure that makes it the oldest
15:17:31 <Koen_> also I don't know if you wanna count the frc
15:17:36 <elliott> it's 2003
15:17:40 <elliott> i looked it up
15:17:43 <oerjan> oh frc :P
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15:18:16 <oerjan> i don't think of it as an "ordinary" nomic, but of course it's slightly older than agora.
15:19:28 <Sgeo> By Agora's definitions, it is a nomic, right?
15:20:17 <Sgeo> Just a nomic with a slightly odd rule changing mechanism
15:20:20 <elliott> so is canada.
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15:20:46 <Sgeo> *so ARE canada
15:20:50 <elliott>  
15:20:53 <hagb4rd> yay.. esoteric in full colour
15:21:17 <oerjan> `relcome
15:21:19 <Sgeo> Actually, I guess that other canada is dead
15:21:20 <HackEgo> ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:21:42 <hagb4rd> thank you master oerjan
15:21:47 <Taneb> *so is Canadum
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15:34:24 <oerjan> <Bike_> maybe i should found #Esotericists Against Weird Nerd Shit <-- that's like Cannibals Against Eating Meat, right?
15:35:45 * oerjan is reminded about that motor bus latin joke
15:36:18 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motor_Bus
15:38:18 <oerjan> Taneb: did you learn that in class? :P
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17:24:05 <Sgeo> Good idea/bad idea? Taking a brand new $650 smartphone into the shower
17:25:13 <oerjan> bad hth
17:26:40 <Sgeo> Too late
17:28:05 <oerjan> my mind boggles at how you managed it
17:28:53 <Sgeo> The phone in question is supposed to be somewhat waterproof -- resistant for 30 minutes submerged 1 meter deep
17:29:19 <oerjan> ...are you ircing from the shower.
17:29:27 <Sgeo> No. Although I did consider it.
17:30:07 <Sgeo> The screen needs to be dry to process input properly, which kind of sucks.
17:34:00 <nooodl> i found out my ipad isn't waterproof "the hard way"
17:34:08 <mnoqy> did it die
17:35:14 <nooodl> nope
17:40:29 <olsner> ... then it's waterproof?
17:41:40 <nooodl> oops i was gone
17:41:47 <fizzie> "Hold down the Info button for a few seconds, and the TG-2 becomes a very expensive flashlight." (Waterproof camera review.)
17:42:07 <ion> :-D
17:42:09 <nooodl> well it wasn't a lot of water, but some of it got in the headphone jack and i had to dry it out
17:42:26 <fizzie> (It can turn the focus illumination led on like that.)
17:56:33 <kmc> Sgeo: Galaxy S4 Active?
17:56:59 <Sgeo> kmc, yes
17:57:15 <kmc> "Samsung has already made a splash with its feature-rich smartphone the Galaxy S4. Now it is hoping to generate enthusiasm for a Galaxy S4 variant that can survive one, in most circumstances."
17:57:19 <kmc> that is... strained
17:58:06 <elliott> haha
17:59:08 <kmc> maybe I'm just too stupid at this moment to connect pronouns
17:59:55 <kmc> shachaf: I realized that the operational difference between composition and inheritance is less significant in C++, where you can have members of object (not reference-to-object) type
18:00:08 <kmc> also is there a good concise term fro "object (not reference-to-object) type"
18:00:56 <Sgeo> I'm honestly more interested to know if it's drop-proof... it hasn't particularly been advertised as such, but that's why I bought it
18:04:16 <zzo38> Some people argue about whether MAME/MESS is free software and open source.
18:06:46 <elliott> kmc: maybe "object value type"
18:08:02 <kmc> mm
18:08:40 <elliott> can't get shorter than what you said without getting ambiguous I think
18:17:14 <nooodl> "objectvaluetype"
18:18:21 <Taneb> OVT
18:20:24 <mnoqy> thing
18:20:51 <elliott> "object value type" was already ambiguous though
18:22:53 <kmc> also I don't know how e.g. JVMs lay out subclasses; maybe they do have pointers to superclass objects
18:23:06 <kmc> but I doubt it because you should never need virtual inheritance without MI
18:41:08 <zzo38> A ""object (not reference-to-object) type" in C++ is a structure type, isn't it?
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18:42:41 <kmc> you could call it that
18:42:58 <kmc> but someone might think you mean POD structures by that
18:44:41 <zzo38> What is that?
18:47:10 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_old_data_structure
18:48:42 <Fiora> is POD like, a language-independent term for 'struct'?
18:48:54 <Bike> i thought it was a c++ term of art
18:51:33 <DHeadshot> What's wrong with UDT for that?
18:51:53 <elliott> Fiora: it stands for "plain old data" but I think mainly C++ people use it? maybe java people too and I think they use it to mean something else
18:51:59 <elliott> oh kmc already linked
18:52:04 <kmc> yeah I don't think it has a consistent cross-language meaning
18:53:13 <kmc> note that a C++ POD can have non-virtual methods
18:54:04 <hagb4rd> there is also POJO.. which is used by java programmers quite often.. (see also POCO for c..same meaning)
18:54:16 <Bike> this doesn't sound all that plain!
18:54:25 <kmc> because those are sort of just ordinary functions that take an implicit first argument
18:54:32 <hagb4rd> and old
18:56:02 <Bike> so does anyone understand the stone-weierstrass theorem because it seems real cool
18:56:27 <kmc> plain old c object?
18:56:49 <elliott> Bike: it involves numbers
18:56:49 <Bike> yolo
18:56:59 <Bike> no it doesn't!
18:57:03 <hagb4rd> yea, but reading further the term seems to be used more in the c# community
18:57:06 <hagb4rd> @kmc
18:57:06 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: src rc ghc
18:57:07 <elliott> you old live object
18:57:20 <Bike> literally no numbers the relevant wikipedia article section!!
18:57:29 <Bike> numbers suck, imo.
18:59:57 <elliott> analysis is all numbers!!
19:00:13 <Bike> what kinda fucked up analysis you doin son
19:00:58 <mnoqy> analysis is building a tower on some crazy ol axioms
19:18:29 <tswett> Real analysis sucks; complex analysis is the way to go.
19:18:34 <tswett> One milliatyllion is 10^2^1002.
19:18:46 <tswett> Preferably it should be handled algebraically, because who likes doing anything analytically?
19:20:13 <tswett> Differential algebras rule, man.
19:21:05 <Taneb> Huh
19:21:17 <Taneb> I'm just as bored now as I was yesterday when my router was bust
19:21:22 <Taneb> Also!
19:21:33 <tswett> But I don't *actually* know how to do complex analysis purely algebraically.
19:21:45 <Taneb> Very early yesterday morning, someone mistook me for, and I quote, "that guy who invented Facebok"
19:21:48 <Taneb> *Facebook
19:22:00 <tswett> Hm, neat.
19:22:48 <Taneb> For reference, I bear no resemblance to Mark Zuckerberg whatsoever
19:24:33 <tswett> Let's see. If f is a holomorphic function, does the differential equation dy/dx = f(x) necessarily have solutions in neighborhoods of the origin?
19:25:22 <tswett> Well... yes. Integrate both sides. Boom.
19:25:39 <tswett> Does every holomorphic function have an integral which is also holomorphic? You'd hope so.
19:26:00 <tswett> Does it make sense to speak of a holomorphic function C x C -> C?
19:28:05 <Taneb> A bunch of people said I looked like James Bond
19:28:14 <Taneb> But that made more sense because I was wearing a dinner suit
19:28:25 <Taneb> And am tall with dark hair
19:28:28 <tswett> I don't think there's such a thing as "looking like James Bond", is there?
19:28:36 <tswett> Daniel Craig doesn't look like Sean Connery.
19:28:49 <Taneb> One of my friends went into quite some depth about it
19:29:24 <Taneb> He said that while I bore little resemblance to any particular incarnation of James Bond, I looked as though I could have been an incarnation unto myself
19:30:35 <Taneb> On account of my dress and the way I was carrying myself
19:30:39 <Taneb> And also what I was drinking
19:30:47 <hagb4rd> martini?
19:31:04 <Taneb> Heineken, which I am told sponsors the franchise
19:31:25 <tswett> Now, if f is a holomorphic function in x and y (which hopefully means something), does the differential equation dy/dx = f(x,y) necessarily have solutions in neighborhoods of the origin? Pretty sure you can come up with a Taylor series, at least.
19:31:57 <Taneb> For some bizarre reason it was being sold in 2/3 pint glasses
19:32:01 <tswett> Not all power series define functions, though. Here's one that doesn't: f(x) = 0! x^0 + 1! x^1 + 2! x^2 + 3! x^3 + 4! x^4 + ...
19:32:16 <Taneb> `? people whom Taneb is not
19:32:21 <HackEgo> people whom Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:32:21 <myndzi>                                |
19:32:21 <myndzi>                              º¯`\o
19:33:04 <Taneb> `run echo "elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond" > wisdom/people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not
19:33:07 <HackEgo> No output.
19:33:10 <Taneb> `? people whom Taneb is not
19:33:11 <HackEgo> people whom Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:33:12 <myndzi>                                |
19:33:12 <myndzi>                              o/`¯º
19:33:14 <Taneb> `? people who Taneb is not
19:33:16 <HackEgo> people who Taneb is not? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:33:16 <myndzi>                               |
19:33:17 <myndzi>                             º¯`\o
19:33:20 <Taneb> :(
19:33:22 <Taneb>  I suck
19:34:51 <tswett> `? people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not
19:34:52 <fizzie> Lower the case? 
19:34:53 <HackEgo> people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not? ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:34:53 <myndzi>                                   |
19:34:54 <myndzi>                                 o/`¯º
19:35:12 <elliott> you have to lowercase that t in the filename, yes
19:35:13 <fizzie> ISTR wisdom looks for lowercase files.
19:35:54 <tswett> `run mv wisdom/people\ who\ Taneb\ is\ not wisdom/people\ who\ taneb\ is\ not
19:35:58 <HackEgo> No output.
19:36:06 <tswett> `? people who taneb is not
19:36:08 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
19:36:12 <tswett> `? people who Taneb is not
19:36:13 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
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19:40:43 <Koen_> since there are a lot of people whom Taneb is not, I think it would be better if it selected a few at random every time
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20:02:46 <zzo38> I suppose my religious views might be classified as panendeism, although some of my views differ from what is common in any classification.
20:11:50 <zzo38> How do the features of Black-C fit into the stuff about POD structures and so on?
20:11:58 <Taneb> What is it called when f (g(a), a) = g(a) for all a?
20:12:29 <Taneb> For all a in the domain of g
20:12:47 <zzo38> Taneb: I don't know.
20:12:58 <Taneb> It's sort of a fixed point?
20:13:04 <Taneb> But a fixed curve
20:13:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, snd
20:13:23 <Phantom_Hoover> uh
20:13:24 <Phantom_Hoover> fst
20:13:44 <Taneb> :P
20:13:51 <Taneb> I mean something like "g is a fixed curve of f
20:13:52 <Taneb> "
20:14:10 <zzo38> Well, that is one thing that meets this description, but I think you mean in general, not just one specific function.
20:14:19 <Phantom_Hoover> ...apply?
20:14:25 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ????
20:14:44 <Phantom_Hoover> full disclosure, i have no idea what the fuck kind of notation Taneb is using
20:14:44 <elliott> f can be defined for (x, y)s s.t. x is not g(y)
20:14:54 <elliott> for example, for any y that isn't in the domain of g, as Taneb said
20:15:07 <Bike> isn't it just f(g(a), a) = g(a). like. normal math
20:15:07 <elliott> or even if y is in the domain of g and x just happens to be equal to something other than g(y)
20:15:56 <Taneb> When f(a, b) is b^(b^(a *b + 1)) and g(a) = 1/(1-a), for example
20:15:58 <Phantom_Hoover> i am terrifically confused
20:16:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: aren't you like... studying mathematics. at university
20:16:14 <Bike> ok, so, you don't need g, do you?
20:16:17 <Taneb> (don't ask how I found that example.)
20:16:22 <Phantom_Hoover> doesn't f(x,y) = x satisfy Taneb's equation then
20:16:23 <Bike> you can just say f(b, a) = b for all b in some set.
20:16:28 <elliott> yes
20:16:30 <Bike> satisfies, but it's not the only possibility.
20:16:31 <elliott> but that doesn't mean other functions don't
20:16:49 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, it does satisfy it
20:16:58 <Bike> f(x,y) = x if x is an integer, otherwise -1
20:17:01 <elliott> for instance f(x) = x has a fixed point but we don't call the property of having a fixed point "being identity" :P
20:17:06 <Taneb> It is not a name for the bunch of things that satisfy it
20:17:39 <Bike> oh, wait, no, a, what am i saying.
20:19:18 <Phantom_Hoover> oh `i get it now'
20:21:47 <Phantom_Hoover> i feel like this is probably too conceptually muddy to have a name
20:22:16 <Bike> yeah
20:23:04 <Taneb> It is a pair of functions f and g where g has domain A and codomain B and f has domain (BxA) and codomain B such that for all x in A, f(g(x), x) = g(x)
20:23:09 <Taneb> Did I write that correctly?
20:23:36 <elliott> g's domain can be smaller than A.
20:23:49 <elliott> also your notation is v. verbose
20:23:49 <Bike> so you have g : X -> Y and f : (Y, X') -> Y' where Y isin Y' and X isin X', is what i was thinking of messaging but didn't
20:23:52 <elliott> how about
20:23:55 <elliott> right what Bike said.
20:24:00 <elliott> except "in" is wrong it's subset. but whatever.
20:24:05 <Bike> oh yeah durr.
20:24:17 <Bike> i don't actually use tex :-(
20:24:34 <elliott> I don't think it's even \isin I just interpreted it informally. it's ok I forgive you
20:25:11 <Bike> anyway and for all x in X, f(g(x),x) = g(x) big whoop
20:25:32 <Bike> maybe there's a name for something a bit generalized. like saying f(g(x),x) = h(x) instead or somethin
20:25:40 <Taneb> btw this all actually has a purpose
20:25:50 <Bike> what the fuck is a purpose
20:25:57 <Taneb> It's a bit like a dolphin
20:26:01 <Bike> o
20:26:34 <Taneb> You know, the first in line to the throne of France
20:31:26 <Taneb> Can anyone just suggest a good name for it, then?
20:31:45 <Bike> a "Taneb function"
20:32:23 <Bike> definition: a function satisfying the Taneb condition on the two Taneb spaces, X and Y
20:33:52 <Phantom_Hoover> `? d-modules
20:33:54 <HackEgo> D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them.
20:34:08 <Taneb> `? tanebventions
20:34:10 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules and automatic squirrel feeders
20:34:21 <Phantom_Hoover> question: are d-modules a taneb space
20:34:42 <Taneb> If you believe with all your heart, then maybe they are!
20:34:46 <Taneb> :)
20:34:50 <Bike> (1) is an automatic squirrel feeder like a crow vending machine (2) do squirrels live in Taneb space
20:34:51 <Phantom_Hoover> trick question, all spaces are Taneb
20:35:18 <Taneb> Bike, (1) it's more like a seesaw and (2) yes
20:35:53 <Bike> sweet
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22:20:20 <nortti> oonbotti2: test
22:20:20 <oonbotti2> Very interesting.
22:25:05 <olsner> fungot: test
22:28:41 <nortti> hint: fungot is not here
22:29:42 <olsner> not here!? how can this be?
22:30:03 <elliott> fizzie: !!!
22:31:08 <olsner> `? fungot
22:31:11 <HackEgo> fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone.
22:33:27 <olsner> `quote fungot
22:33:28 <HackEgo> 11) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 15) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea
22:33:58 <olsner> I guess that'll have to suffice then
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22:35:13 <Sgeo> How is it that a headphone jack can be made waterproof (so it doesn't need a cover) but a USB port cannot?
22:35:34 <olsner> fungot: are you waterproof?
22:35:34 <fizzie> (Imma asleep.)
22:35:35 <fungot> olsner: fnord iood haha ok safari opened it after about two months time, i'll start posting some of my libraries uses them under plt
22:36:31 <olsner> sleep must not prevent our mission critical bots from functioning
22:45:30 <hagb4rd> this book very funny: http://jbot.de/zwwHC
22:45:58 <hagb4rd> unix haters handbook
22:46:41 <olsner> hmm, 350 pages too, which page is the funniest?
22:46:59 <Bike> 161
22:48:43 <hagb4rd> let's have the letter from bruce howard on 258 :)
22:51:14 <oerjan> <Bike> so does anyone understand the stone-weierstrass theorem because it seems real cool <-- well i used to do so, anyway.
22:51:32 <elliott> back in oerjan's understanding-things days
22:51:42 <Bike> dark days indeed
22:52:15 <Sgeo> I feel like I'm shilling for Samsung every time I mention my phone. How do I make that feeling go away?
22:52:27 <Bike> stop mentioning ur phone
22:52:35 <hagb4rd> but i also love the "evolution of a programmer"..a good snack on 251
22:52:50 <hagb4rd> so true
22:55:16 <oerjan> <tswett> Does every holomorphic function have an integral which is also holomorphic? You'd hope so. <-- yes, iirc the taylor series have the same radii of convergence around each point
22:55:23 <olsner> Sgeo: or, if you must mention your phone, just stop mentioning the make and model of it
23:02:23 <Bike> "In each case, our code was compiled using GCC version 4.5.1 with either the -O3 flag set or the -O1 flag set, whichever resulted in faster code (except for [...] which performed significantly better when compiled with GCC 4.1.2 using the -O1 flag)" isn't that grand
23:03:41 <elliott> what're you reading?
23:04:38 <Bike> that nsa thing
23:05:20 <Bike> "the simon and speck families of lightweight block ciphers"
23:08:29 <Bike> the cipher is like ten lines of c, i'm kind of curious what differences they could get
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23:39:58 <hagb4rd> in that case it may be worth to check the assembly
23:44:28 <hagb4rd> did you know that decrementing a value in a loop can be significantly faster then incrementing it? some compilers optimize the assembly so it makes no difference.. but without optimization the assembly code is ..yea..just longer (more steps)
23:48:01 <FreeFull> That's because it's easy to check if something is zero
23:48:16 <FreeFull> But to compare two values, you have to subtract and then check if it's zero
23:48:23 <hagb4rd> right
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23:52:54 <FreeFull> It adds up over many loop iterations
23:53:18 <FreeFull> Although it probably doesn't matter unless you are really trying to pull out max performance
23:53:33 <hagb4rd> yes
23:53:38 <FreeFull> By then you might be writing the assembly yourself anyway