00:01:07 i really should know better than to get involved in Git Vs Darcs 00:01:09 i don't even care really 00:02:10 kmc: are you seriously in a channel where there are people who like darcs 00:02:15 come on you're practically in #haskell already 00:02:31 haha 00:03:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:03:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:06:38 What of non-eso languages that by their nature don't have keywords? 00:07:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:08:57 hi Sgeo 00:09:19 Tcl and Rebol don't count as esolangs I think 00:09:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:17:40 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:28 hm but they're talked about so much in #esoteric... 00:19:00 So is Haskell 00:19:10 hi mnoqy 00:19:14 hi shachaf 00:19:15 hi 00:19:16 Probably more than Tcl and Rebol combined 00:19:43 everyone knows haskell is JUST PLAIN WEIRD AND CRAZY and only for special people -gags & vomit- 00:19:57 mnoqy: am i special 00:20:06 everyone is special, shachaf 00:20:22 is haskell for everyone 00:21:44 yes 00:22:01 even for photographers............................. 00:22:31 kmc: you should make a version of MS-DOS which runs on a cluster of computers 00:23:02 * kmc waits for it 00:23:06 kmc: hey i thought of another great reason you should be in #haskell 00:23:14 waits for what 00:23:15 oh "distributed DOS" 00:23:19 yes 00:23:24 kmc: you don't use (#)haskell but you still go on about it a lot 00:23:28 perfect demographic fit 00:23:31 haha 00:23:33 not that much really 00:23:38 people keep bringing it up here............................. 00:23:45 just think how much more you could complain about #haskell if you were in it 00:23:52 and you wouldn't seem bitter because it'd be present tense! 00:24:51 kmc could seem bitter while handing out candy 00:24:51 "it's a talent" hth 00:24:51 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:24:54 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:25:01 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 00:25:01 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:25:13 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 00:25:27 by candy do you mean drugz 00:25:35 gonna get me some of kmc's "candy" 00:25:45 brain candy 00:26:13 elliott: you gotta move to ca to have kmc be your dealer 00:26:17 kmc: did i mention caleskell is gone....... 00:26:31 elliott: he doesn't do interstate commerce 00:26:46 (the joke is everything is interstate commerce) 00:26:46 attn kmc and/or other californians 00:26:48 01:26:03 http://www.california-roleplay.org/ 00:27:21 ew 00:27:33 01:26:03 -!- badzavrza [~badzavrza@178-221-29-105.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 00:27:33 i like how my connection dropped for 10 seconds after pasting that first line 00:27:46 if only kmc was in #haskell so he'd hear about california roleplay 1st hand 00:28:05 kmc: did you know augustss has been in #haskell recently........ 00:28:08 a bunch of croatian people pretending to be in california??? 00:28:10 elliott: cool 00:28:13 17:26 -!- badzavrza [~badzavrza@178-221-29-105.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 00:28:19 oh wait 00:28:34 to be fair elliott's timestamp is wrong 00:28:49 kmc: not as kool as kmc....... 00:29:13 trying to think of three words starting with k that i could use to describe kmc's hypothetical haskell presence in haskell so i can turn them into an acronym 00:29:34 *fix the words 00:29:42 btw important question........... 00:29:53 -!- augur has changed nick to LRk. 00:29:53 is there something like /usr/share/dict/words except with "lots of good metadata" about the words 00:29:57 -!- LRk has changed nick to augur. 00:29:59 not afaik 00:30:07 @wn metadata 00:30:09 *** "metadata" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 00:30:09 metadata 00:30:09 n 1: data about data; "a library catalog is metadata because it 00:30:09 describes publications" 00:30:10 like adjective/verb/whatever, tense/whatever, number of syllables, stress, ........ 00:30:15 wordnet 00:30:16 you know what i mean 00:30:22 all that 00:30:26 easily searchable 00:30:32 there is a command line wordnet tool 00:32:36 command lion 00:32:38 "roar" 00:34:21 Look! At the picture. See! The skull. The part of bone removed. The master race Frankenstein radio controls. 00:35:06 17:31:16 --- join: fwe (~ssjsj@31.205.67.235) joined #haskell 00:35:16 17:31:18 i was in project that was failing and as a result got my probation period extended. they said my programming skills were not that good. 00:35:19 however an expert programmer was brought in and the project is still failing. the project manager and i had had an argument and that is why he tried to sabotage me. do you feel the boss knows the truth now? 00:35:23 kmc: look what you're missing!!! 00:35:47 what 00:36:25 kmc: if only we had more ops on their toes, ready to ban the trolls etc 00:36:49 mosh's messing up all the lines with this terminal is so awful that i copied that from the tunes logs......... 00:36:53 imo rewrite mosh in haskell 00:37:14 imo rewrite haskell in mosh 00:37:16 checkmate 00:37:22 shachaf: now we're talking about php help 00:37:37 kmc: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Pot-o-Gold.aspx I saw this the other day 00:37:43 "type conversion in PHP" 00:37:45 kmc: do you really think the "##crypto experience" is better than "the #haskell" experience 00:38:23 lots of aim heckers in #haskell, if you know what i mean 00:38:30 (i mean that people complain about php in #haskell a lot) 00:38:43 Fiora: haha great 00:42:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:44:40 kmc: also monochrom said he misses you once 00:45:01 if that's not a good reason to join #haskell (alt. any channel monochrom is in) then i don't know what is 00:45:37 more reasons to join #haskell: prevents anyone from having the thought "maybe if i murder kmc they'll shut up about him joining #haskell in #esoteric" 00:46:38 fiora: unsafeCoerce? 00:47:08 18:52:21 always trust monochrom after you have asked him to double-check and he has confirmed 00:47:21 ion: I... have no idea >_< I don't know haskell 00:47:43 WordNet also has an API. 00:47:45 Fiora: unsafeCoerce is like reinterpret_cast. 00:48:10 Fiora: You should learn Haskell! 00:49:41 It does not know anything about phonology, though. 00:50:02 I learned haskell before for class... kind of... 00:52:05 they teach haskell in classes now?? 00:52:50 Um... our compilers class used haskell, mostly, so the professor taught us a bit of it 00:52:58 (There are a couple free pronunciation dictionaries of different size, but none of those I know about collect other sort of mettadatta.) 00:53:39 which compilers class 00:53:46 "oh wait pseudonym never mind" 00:54:02 dont be a dick 00:54:38 ? 00:55:23 I should stop phrasing things in esoterese. 00:55:53 or... actually wait, I think it was the programming languages class? 00:56:19 haskell is well-suited for compilers at least, so it's a fairly good setting to encounter it in 00:56:30 geez it was three years ago now >_< 00:57:37 whatever it was we did do some compiler-making in it, like stuff with inheritance and type checking and super basic optimization 00:57:45 haskell pattern matching was like amazing for it 00:57:54 you could write a peephole optimizer by pattern-matching against instruction sequences 00:58:00 three years ago i was 14........... yikes 00:58:00 Our compiler class: used Java; and compiled: "MiniJava"; which has as a single lexical token the string "System.out.println". 00:58:14 fizzie: nice 00:58:43 like you could match against (mul x 2) and turn it into (add x x) type of thing 01:00:05 elliott: Statement ::= "System.out.println" "(" Expression ")" ";". 01:00:32 every time i do a simple peephole optimiser it always feels like i'm not really doing optimisation because it's too simple :( 01:00:34 (The type of Expression must also be "int".) 01:01:11 hm is x+x or x*2 actually faster in general with today's cpus(tm)? I have no idea 01:01:16 I would assume the latter, but 01:01:19 (I realise it was just an example) 01:01:38 Oh, also: MainClass ::= "class" Identifier "{" "public" "static" "void" "main" "(" "String" "[" "]" Identifier ")" "{" Statement "}" "}". 01:02:08 add is typically 1 cycle latency and can issue on every pipe, so 0.25/0.33/0.5 inverse throughput depending on the CPU? 01:02:10 None of those things ("public", "static", "String") have any sort of more proper significance. They're just... strings. 01:02:22 multiply kind of ranges but like... it usually can only issue once per cycle and it has higher latency so it's like... 3/1, 4/1, 5/1 ish? 01:02:35 I mean it kind of makes sense that adds are a lot easier than multiplies 01:02:57 mm 01:03:05 Did the interview ever get published or anything? 01:03:11 Fiora: But do they deal with immediate 2 in any sort of special way? (Perhaps not, since it's the sort of thing you'd expect tools to do.) 01:03:12 I don't know what 0.25/0.33/0.5 inverse throughput actually means :( 01:07:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:07:39 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:07:45 right 01:07:47 usually I think other things tend to be the bottleneck for cycle length? 01:07:51 so like, atom has only two execution pipes 01:07:55 so it can't possibly do more than two adds 01:08:12 "In Intel microarchitecture code name Sandy Bridge, the low 64-bit result of a 128-bit multiply is ready to use in 3 cycles and the high 64-bit result is ready one cycle after the low 64-bit result. -- In a dependent chain of addition of integers wider than 128-bits, accessing the high 64-bits result of the multiply should be delayed relative to the low 64-bit multiply result for optimal ... 01:08:15 so usually every execution pipe can do at least the most simple things 01:08:18 ... software pipelining." 01:08:22 Writing a proper optimizing compiler must be the best job. 01:10:07 from agner's little chart thing, various CPUs doing 32x32->32 multiplies: bulldozer: 4/2 sandy bridge: 3/1 original p4: 14/4.5 prescott: 10/2.5 atom: 5/2 01:11:39 I was guessing on the haswell add thing, like, I just remember hearing that they added a 4th execution pipe for super-simple-things-only, to handle like, jumps and loop overhead and stuff while the others handle big things like simd operations? 01:12:17 A kind of a... half-pipe... (ba-dum tssh) 01:12:54 * Fiora dies 01:13:09 It's some kind of a snow ski thing, right? 01:13:18 I think so it's like a skateboarding thing? 01:13:28 I know this because my little brother was really, really into tony hawk's pro skater 01:13:38 I think Ski Or Die had a half-pipe event. 01:13:38 let's settle on snowboarding hth 01:13:55 the tony hawk's games obsoleted actual skateboarding 01:14:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_or_Die <- Snowboard Halfpipe is like right there in the article image. 01:14:17 so now intel has like, 7 execution pipes 01:16:09 "When a girl start giving a guy head but then decides to stop/leave before the guy blows his load. -- She stoped giving me head before I cames and she left. All I got was a half-pipe." thanks, urban dictionary. 01:16:16 Also, "stoped". 01:16:25 Did you stoped at the red light? 01:17:11 http://www.csanl.com.br/alunos/paginas/2012/7a/f7a14/Image%209.jpg 01:17:13 I think it's that thing 01:17:19 but um I guess this is kind of off topic 01:17:44 I don't see how, it was a logical consequence of whatever came before. 01:21:13 "The current method of half pipe cutting is by use of a Zaugg Pipe Monster." okay that's it time to sleep it's 4:20am 01:22:00 kmc alert 01:22:07 (drugz joke) 01:22:24 Thanks for explaining. Thexplaining. 01:22:38 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:25:28 i missed microarchitecture because i was cleaning my bathroom :'( 01:25:37 (Possibly the Zaugg Pipe Monster was enough of a drugz joke already.) 01:26:27 kmc: it's ok it was just me not knowing basic things!!! 01:27:07 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:27:19 i learned from 6.004 that there are lots of different ways you can structure an adder 01:27:26 with the goal of minimizing gate delay 01:27:33 but they probably have settled on one by now 01:28:18 like the naive adder takes O(# bits) to settle down; the last gate can't start settling before it gets the carry from the previous 01:28:52 how long until the transistors are small enough to just hardcode all the results 01:29:09 -!- carado has joined. 01:29:12 also can we have 3d cube cpus, that would be cool 01:29:26 "The problem for marketers is that some users set their browsers to reject cookies or quickly extinguish them. And mobile phones, which are taking an increasing chunk of the Web usage, do not use cookies." 01:29:26 so you can make a "carry select" adder where you do the last half of the addition twice in parallel, once assuming carry 0, once assuming carry 1 01:29:28 kmc: we can talk more about it and stuff! 01:29:29 I hate everyone. 01:29:33 http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/06/17/the-web-cookie-is-dying-heres-the-creepier-technology-that-comes-next/ 01:29:38 and then the actual carry just selects between those 01:30:00 and so a good archticeture is like an unbalanced tree of this idea recursively 01:30:23 I remember hearing though that the bottleneck in current chips is often things like "select the oldest instructions whose input dependencies are satisfied from this queue of 36 instructions" and things like that? and I guess maybe like cache loads and stuff? 01:30:31 like, OOE logic and things 01:30:41 really dumb question: why are chips flat 01:30:57 i guess they have 3d internal structure but it's all really small? 01:31:04 Can someone please tell me where "mobile phones do not use cookies" come from? 01:31:06 it's because of the way lithography works, isn't it? 01:31:10 It has to be a misunderstanding of SOMETHING 01:31:16 like, it's all about laying down layers 01:31:32 Aren't they starting to do "3D" like right these days? 01:31:41 so like, if you wanted it 3D, you'd have to stick two silicon wafers on top of each other (?) I'm not sure 01:32:39 more dumb questions: wouldn't it all be a lot faster if they like, integrated the RAM with the CPU. 01:32:55 Oh, the "3D" of a tri-gate transistor perhaps has nothing to do with three dimensions. How nice. 01:33:51 elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDRAM it's a thing! 01:34:25 oh they actually use it in consoles and stuff 01:34:35 Anyway actual three-dimensional things are a thing too, I'm pretty sure, just not such a commercially viable thing. 01:34:44 it seems like it would be, like, significantly faster? because you can skip all the communication paths and stuff 01:34:51 and the motherboard and all that? 01:34:54 and RAM latency is kind of a big deal right 01:35:14 but I guess if they're using it in consoles and not "regular computer" CPUs it mustn't be that amazing..... (but then why are they using it in consoles) 01:35:23 intel has those 3D transistors now 01:35:33 I think a lot of RAM latency comes not from the distance but from like... 01:35:35 if you want like a cube shape then one big obstacle is routing power and cooling 01:35:56 like, the logic itself? I mean like, there's a controller, which is this crazy complex thing and has to negotiate requests from multiple cores 01:36:17 right 01:36:21 and then there's the row/column addressing, the refreshing, and all kinds of stuff I don't really know abot 01:36:32 it's like, DRAM itself is kind of not trivial to access? 01:36:35 I just see a long path and think "hey, I bet lightspeed is some kind of bottleneck here in 2013" :P 01:36:46 dram is complicated :'( 01:36:47 kmc: "Tri-gate or 3D Transistor (not to be confused with 3D microchips) fabrication is used by Intel Corporation for the nonplanar transistor architecture --" that seems to sort of imply it's not a properly "3D IC" thing. 01:37:13 (20 centimeters) / ((2 / 3) * c) = 1.00069229 nanoseconds 01:37:26 so like... if the roundtripdistance is 20cm that's like... it's like only 1ns extra time from the wire? 01:37:33 mmm 01:39:53 maybe the "3D" is for "3 drain"?? 01:40:06 yeah i see 01:40:23 it seems like there is a trend of moving stuff closer to the cpu anyway 01:40:36 yeah DRAM is complicated... it's funny how if you look at any two parts that are "just wired together" you find they're really two machines speaking a protocol 01:40:45 and this holds recursively to some depth 01:40:49 eventually you will just buy a motherboard from intel where every part of the computer is on one big chip and all it has is USB ports 01:40:57 I remember reading about just how gigantic modern DRAM controllers were, like, they used up a significant part of the silicon or something 01:41:09 kmc: does it hold within the CPU itself? I guess probably 01:41:11 yeah 01:41:22 it's impossible to design something that big without abstractions and protocols 01:41:27 elliott: like, systems on a chip? 01:41:36 like the cores on a single die have to execute a cache coherence protocol right 01:41:37 weren't they making like, an atom soc or something (?) 01:42:09 heh 01:42:13 sounds like something intel would do 01:42:16 *Someone* is making Atom SoCs, at least. 01:42:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:42:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:42:35 is it competitive with ARM SoCs in any way 01:42:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_%28system_on_chip%29 01:44:05 kmc: the whole thing in _The Door Into Summer_ where he gets engaged to a 12 year old is admittedly "a bit weird".......and also there's all the sexism and all that......... 01:44:09 but it's still a good book hth 01:44:18 "Intel has announced that it won't provide support for Linux on Cloverview family of Atom systems-on-a-chip" 01:45:15 system on a chip looks like that yes 01:49:12 I wish I knew more about this stuff though... 01:49:36 the instant the bits leave the core my knowledge drops to about zero... 01:51:13 the instant the bits leave the screen my knowledge drops to zero 01:51:28 ok let's say "disk" instead. except i don't know anything about the disk itself 01:51:54 they spin 01:51:57 except when they don't 01:52:25 I think there's like magnets involved 01:52:27 When they don't, they just... solid around, right? 01:52:43 yep 01:52:55 i love magnets 01:53:04 kmc: i have one of those disks that doesn't spin 01:53:09 i don't trust it because it doesn't make noises 01:53:23 i have internalised that the act of storing data fundamentally requires little clicky noises 01:53:53 shachaf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDQOvzFetxs 02:00:16 kmc: just a quick questions if I chose to learn Haskell what are the benefits is it better the C/C++ will I be able to write dll ? or winapi etc 02:03:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:05:36 -!- Bike has joined. 02:08:42 kmc: i don't get it, this cnn money thing is fucking hilarious 02:09:19 kmc: if you join #haskell then shachaf and I won't paste you the worst of #haskell 02:09:53 like how shachaf doesn't talk about ##crypto in here. 02:09:53 elliott: Uh, can I sign up for that deal? 02:09:55 I'm in #haskell. 02:10:40 no. kmc only. 02:14:57 "Think you’ve evolved past your primordial urges to employ murder as a problem solving tool? Read:" 02:16:04 help 02:16:09 the link is http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/13/technology/alex-banayan-vc.pr.fortune/index.html if you really want to murder someone 02:16:14 or want to want to murder someone, anyway 02:16:52 i mean it's just so over the top 02:17:28 like, "The problem for VCs lusting after 18-year-old entrepreneurs is that they themselves are usually forty- and fiftysomethings" 02:20:20 'TechCrunch named it "douchebag app of the year."' <---- actual quote 02:20:38 well yeah that playbook thing is pretty terrible. 02:21:00 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:21:01 'Fontenot told him the demand was much bigger than what Facebook could handle.' 02:30:02 Bike: don't miss the astroturfing in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5907253 02:33:33 -!- olsner has joined. 02:35:35 Alex is the real deal! Never have I talked with someone and been so inspired! He has influence to source deals and has heard thousands of stories from entrepreneurs. I trust his expertise. 02:35:39 I don't know. I still feel like a VC is taking a big risk on a hot-shot young hustler like this. 02:35:44 Venture capital is literally all about taking big risks... 02:35:48 Truth. So in that case why aren't other VC firms bringing on young hustlers like Alex here to build relationships and scout out young founders? 02:36:07 wow i don't even have to open the link. you should start a VC firm for pasting things about VC firms into irc 02:36:12 hot shot young hustler, jesus 02:36:35 -!- elliott has set topic: Hot shot young hustler Jesus | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 02:36:42 thx 02:38:09 kmc: are you all ready to move to startupland 02:38:11 if you want to read some more terrible things, Noisebridge is having a long argument about whether the violent guy with the "WHITE POWER" tattoo should be asked to leave https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037346.html 02:38:20 what's noisebridge 02:38:35 SF hackerspace, prominent among hackerspaces nationally 02:38:47 and world-class drama generator 02:38:56 The name of the guy with the tattoos is Robbie, and he's a nice guy. I haven't seen Robby do anything that warranted being asked to leave. Of course, Robby might be nice to me because I am one of two people who bothered to introduce themselves to him. 02:39:06 what's with all you weirdos not introducing yourself to a guy with a "white power" tattoo 02:39:19 v. oppressive 02:39:26 https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037410.html ahaha beautiful 02:39:47 white power isn't always a racial slogan it's the rascist minds and race baiters that interpret it that way and want others to 02:40:09 Bike: good point 02:40:13 seriously though what is this, some kind of "hackrspace" thing or 02:40:29 03:38:35 <+kmc> SF hackerspace, prominent among hackerspaces nationally 02:40:35 oh 02:40:38 genius deduction Bike 02:40:38 wow i missed that oops 02:41:16 previous episodes include: Noisebridge lost all their money and nobody knows how; Noisebridge debates whether to let someone teach a class on cooking crystal meth; Noisebridge argues about whether people should inhale nitrous oxide in the hackerspace 02:41:29 oh my god, some of these messages 02:41:38 WHAT ABOUT A JEWISH GUY WITH A SWASTIKA TATTOO??? 02:42:12 oh somebody ragequit 02:42:13 kmc: what was that other one 02:42:14 right fluoride 02:42:16 yes this is good 02:42:16 oh yeah 02:42:24 person emails noisebridge about the evils of flouridation 02:42:31 You see my arguments as defending a racist and I see them as defending critical thinking. 02:42:40 someone else compares this to 9/11 trutherism facetiously 02:42:46 then the thread talks about 9/11 trutherism seriously for a while 02:43:02 "There's no way that I could know how it feels to be beaten in the street for the color of my skin or know the weight of living under the burden of another groups privilege." are they like 02:43:10 are we supposed to think "no, you do know that" 02:43:10 ((i*23831)>>18)*352>>5 -- can this be simplified further? 02:43:38 good idea i will think about this question instead of continuing to read. 02:43:54 i've never been to noisebridge "should i go y/n" 02:43:59 yes, you could replace the end with *63>>3, couldn't you? 02:44:17 i mean in terms of operations, not numbers 02:44:19 wait, i guess not hm 02:44:24 i'm thinking about, say, 02:44:33 adding 352*2^18 in the multiplication 02:44:36 no wait you could ok 02:44:36 and shifting by 25 02:44:38 but i don't think that works 02:44:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:44:43 https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-June/037482.html 02:44:45 also how do you arrive at *63? 02:45:00 bad arithmetic in my head :D 02:45:34 i guess it would be *11 02:45:48 since i mean, 352 = 11*2^5, is all 02:46:06 doesn't give the same result 02:46:15 kmc: lol. 02:46:18 why not? 02:46:21 sorry i'm kind of out of it 02:46:26 dunno, but i was thinking similar 02:46:35 ((25*23831)>>18)*352>>5 02:46:35 22 02:46:36 ((25*23831)>>18)*11>>5 02:46:36 0 02:46:41 er 02:46:43 i mean get rid of the >>5 02:46:50 o rite 02:47:16 that works but i am not quite sure wh-- nm i am 02:47:16 haha 02:47:21 makes sense man 02:47:24 wh++ 02:47:25 cool cool 02:47:30 ++wh 02:47:46 fear my power, for i know basic arithmetic 02:47:53 kmc: btw when you move to sf are you going to get a night iphone and a day iphone 02:48:00 no is that a thing 02:48:05 wat 02:48:08 http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/my-phone/2013/03/dave-morin-path-facebook-apple 02:48:23 perfect 02:48:24 oh god that thing 02:48:32 that thing is the best thing 02:48:41 it's the little things 02:48:49 "I don’t use a ring of any kind on my phone. This is so that I am always on offense and never defense." 02:48:51 like how [case] tells you that this guy referred to his fucking iphone case as a "walnut-back" 02:48:52 ?????? 02:48:55 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 02:49:00 are we, by any chance, going to mock this man 02:49:03 “They remind me of home and my values. The mountains are my soul.” 02:49:07 yes, phantom. 02:49:26 “It’s a custom-designed, one-of-a-kind bespoke app I had built for my assistant and I to communicate and collaborate through.” 02:49:40 "Editors curate the most important news stories of the day and break them down into basic points, quotes, and imagery" alright i gotta check this out 02:49:45 i honestly think it must be a send-up of startup culture 02:49:47 how can it not be 02:49:56 oh you have to get an app for this 02:49:57 fuck that 02:52:56 Bike: hi should i sleep 02:53:16 Bike: @msg #esoteric no 02:53:32 @msg #esoteric yes 02:53:32 Not enough privileges 02:53:35 :-( 02:53:44 now let's line text up! 02:53:55 we gotta do it, Bike... 02:54:08 23 characters is enough 02:54:34 how do you even notice it 02:54:36 shit 02:54:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:54:46 :-] 02:55:05 23 if your nick is mine 02:55:15 26 if it's a "bad nick" 02:55:17 i hate you 02:55:34 i.e., not 7 letters hth 02:55:37 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck 02:56:41 Bike is un-co-operative 02:56:59 (i can't use an ö here) 02:57:20 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:57:27 i gotta hyphenate words 02:58:21 no one else is playing? 02:58:34 :] 02:58:38 counting is for losers 02:58:54 are you calling me one? 02:59:06 maybe 02:59:31 mnoqy: don't insult me! 03:00:10 http://abadfortress.tumblr.com/ 03:00:19 elliott has a monopsony 03:00:36 did i misuse that word? 03:00:40 "monopsony"++ 03:00:42 probably. i don't care. 03:00:45 this is not the dwarf fortress i know 03:00:46 kmc: why does it look like link's awakening 03:01:02 or. pokemon 03:01:48 it looks more like pokemon 03:01:48 http://25.media.tumblr.com/5e16dcd9ba738025b40d0e48424b9ceb/tumblr_moidwos8Y71spfoh9o3_1280.png 03:01:50 okay, i give up. happy? 03:01:54 IDEA!DRUG 03:01:55 BAG FUCK 03:02:06 oh shit 03:02:07 i think it's a bootleg translation of japanese pokemon into english 03:02:08 i literally scrolled down to it 03:02:11 'english' 03:02:14 before clicking kmc's link 03:02:23 this calls for the image 03:02:25 The Power of Drugz 03:02:28 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Schéma_synchronicité_in_English.png 03:02:32 http://24.media.tumblr.com/ccd724c3a73588a5d203fdf0262e755d/tumblr_moidmnSzMS1spfoh9o3_1280.png 03:03:05 is this vietnamese crystal 03:03:08 yes 03:03:15 vietnamese crystal sounds like a drug tbh 03:03:16 if you scroll back enoguh then the blog is about dwarf fortress instead 03:03:26 lol 03:03:30 "i got some premium vietnamese crystal man, let's get fucked up" 03:03:34 Authentic Drugz Talk 03:03:34 elliott: are you reading this, it pretty much is 03:04:08 hey is someone selling drugz 03:04:16 me 03:04:21 kmc: is santa cruz famous as a place to get drugz btw 03:04:24 "Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal is a Vietnamese-to English translated version of Crystal that was sold as a bootleg in markets accross Vietnam in early 2001. Based on all of the place names and the names of the characters, it is most likely that this is a translation of the Chinese version of Crystal(which itself is an unofficial translation of the Japanese version" 03:04:38 kmc: one time i told someone that i had been to santa cruz in the evening and he thought it was for buying drugz 03:04:39 shachaf: i guess 03:04:41 heh 03:04:45 kmc: gosh, that reminds me of... what was it... 03:04:47 drugzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 03:05:03 #drugzoteric 03:05:04 "Star War The Third Gathers: The Backstroke of the West" 03:05:07 what 03:05:11 is that turkish star wars or 03:05:12 i remember that 03:05:13 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_War_The_Third_Gathers:_The_Backstroke_of_the_West 03:05:17 it was the bootlegged version with "DO NOT WANT" 03:05:33 http://winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html 03:06:23 "amazingly enough, the beginning scroll is mistranslated even though the words are right there on the screen" good 03:06:49 Our dichotomy opens the combat 03:07:14 this seemed completely random until i figured out that 'jedi council' was being translated into chinese then back to english as 'the presbyterian church'. 03:07:17 this is still good 03:07:35 http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005195.html in depth examination of how the word 'fuck' ends up in so many translations from chinese 03:07:45 attn Bike, other language nerds 03:07:51 oh no it's like almost 5 03:08:14 wow do i qualify as a language nerd now 03:08:15 awesome 03:08:48 bike: biologist, linguist, bicycle. 03:09:01 the bike, the myth, the legend 03:09:02 oh no 03:09:08 linguists are the worst thing 03:09:12 don't be a linguist 03:09:12 shut up shachaf!!!!! 03:09:16 shut up!!!!!!!!!!! 03:09:24 not today, mnoqy 03:09:31 today i speak up against linguists! 03:09:43 finally 03:09:58 what 03:10:01 first they didn't come for the statisticians 03:10:12 and i didn't speak up because i didn't hate statisticians 03:11:19 i like that the investigation involves finding the chinese-language forum where chinese people make fun of bad chinese -> english translations 03:11:30 sweet 03:13:10 mnoqy: wait you're not a linguist are you 03:13:18 :3 03:14:12 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Gan10.jpg Correct translation: "Dry Seasonings Section" 03:14:38 close enough 03:14:59 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Gan11.jpg this would be a great if aggressive motto 03:21:02 a fast ether lord fucking net ascending 03:21:24 that's my tagline on dating sites 03:21:32 * elliott is a fast ether lord 03:22:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:28:04 wow these birds outside are making annoying noises. 03:28:08 it's like they want me to not sleep. 03:28:10 what kind 03:28:21 uh 03:28:25 the kind that makes annoying noises at 4 am 03:28:25 kmc and i saw a bird once 03:28:40 yeah i think it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scrub_Jay 03:28:56 nice looking bird imo 03:29:07 what's a not nice looking bird iyo 03:29:07 imo the birds here make worse noises than the birds in the other place in hexham i've lived 03:29:15 those made soothing oo oo noises 03:29:37 http://thearchnemesis.com/Ugly-Birds.html 03:30:00 :'( 03:30:03 i agree with these except pigeon 03:30:08 i think pigeons are pretty 03:30:13 are you calling me ugly 03:30:20 don't think so 03:30:30 the joke is seagull 03:30:34 are you a seagull 03:30:37 idgi 03:30:41 oh, you're calling my personality ugly 03:30:53 "We will assume the validity of the axiom of choice without further ado" ruh roh 03:30:54 https://translate.google.com/#iw/en/%D7%A9%D7%97%D7%A3 hth 03:30:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:31:29 huh interesting 03:31:43 ftr i don't think seagulls are ugly either 03:31:46 Bike: source 03:31:50 cockroaches of the air 03:31:56 thanks a lot, web page 03:31:58 Introductory Real Analysis by Kolmogorov 03:32:06 (obviously it goes on to mention The Controversy) 03:32:22 kmc: _The Door into Summer_ has a bunch of great things about cats. 03:32:57 i can't really imagine a well ordering of the reals...................... 03:33:04 -!- sprockle_ has joined. 03:33:22 Bike: don't worry in type theory you get the axiom of choice as a theorem without getting a well-ordering of the reals! 03:33:27 It's The Best Of Both Worlds 03:33:29 is that so 03:33:29 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:33:32 wat 03:33:47 you can prove choice from well-ordering i thought 03:33:47 kmc: http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html "my favourite blog post" 03:33:53 Bike: yes but that's in set theory. 03:34:03 oh boy some other thing 03:34:50 "The key difference between set theory and type theory is that in set theory one can form quotient sets for arbitrary equivalence relations" who needs it anyway 03:35:24 is the quotient set the set of equivalence classes? 03:35:24 elliott: more favourite than.......................... http://r6research.livejournal.com/27071.html 03:35:27 checkmate 03:35:47 kmc: Yes. 03:35:53 ok 03:36:56 you can do quotient types they just have to be different I think 03:36:59 it's cool how i'll apparently never find any foundation ever completely intuitive 03:37:01 maybe nobody has worked out all the details yet 03:37:04 fucking quotients 03:37:16 OTT and HTT have stories for them 03:37:16 o well i'm just a bikeologist 03:37:24 Bike: How did you initially come to #esoteric, anyway? 03:37:25 but I'm pretty sure you don't have to give in to the axiom of choice for them :P 03:37:28 Agda had a b0rked one 03:37:38 shachaf: i think sgeo. 03:37:44 why 03:37:55 hi copumpkin 03:38:22 hi shachaf 03:38:25 no 03:38:28 yes 03:38:36 copumpkin: you should play our new game 03:38:42 "it was recently shown by Cohen that an affirmatie answer to the question is also consistent" wow this is pretty old 03:38:43 it's trying to convince kmc to come back to #haskell some more! 03:38:47 Sgeo++ 03:39:13 elliott: kmc will come to #haskell if he wants to 03:39:15 leave him alone hth 03:39:26 kmc, that's for bringing Bike here? 03:39:26 we can hask if we want to, we can leave our friends behind 03:39:37 kmc: hey, wanna come back to #haskell? I'll give you +v 03:39:58 that's basically like a million bucks 03:40:27 Sgeo: yes 03:40:29 copumpkin: maybe later 03:40:39 you know i think something i liked about taocp was: no fucking foundations 03:40:46 just billions and billions of combinatoric identities 03:40:50 all math books should be like that imo. 03:41:00 Bike: i think you'll find that foundations rule and everything on top is boring as hell 03:41:24 you should do reverse mathematics instead 03:41:29 um that's foundations 03:41:32 sort of involves foundations + is crazy + isn't foundations 03:41:32 just LAME foundations 03:41:51 what if you did it with type theories instead of set theories 03:41:55 "be an innovator" 03:42:34 kmc: "learn lisp or ocaml along with haskell" -- #haskell 03:43:02 learn snobol or ia32 along with haskell 03:43:29 elliott, erm... the lisp bit was my fault >.> 03:43:36 yes it was 03:43:48 what the heck is metaprogramming and who needs it 03:44:00 id say things in #haskell but heck no im not doing that 03:44:08 it's where you incessantly make jokes about "i never meta [thing] i didn't like" automatically 03:44:12 mnoqy: do it 03:45:11 haskell/11.05.04:12:42:05 C++ exists. this is a bad design decision. 03:45:20 o god dont grep for me 03:45:23 stop it stop it stop it 03:45:24 stop it stop it stop it 03:45:43 ok stopped 03:45:47 -!- mnoqy has left. 03:45:52 "oopse" 03:46:00 i already stopped grepping :'( 03:46:12 maybe you shouldn't grep in the first place 03:46:19 maybe i should skip the set theory stuff and get ti hilbertian spaces 03:47:33 @ask mnoqy i miss you :'( 03:47:33 Consider it noted. 03:50:50 -!- sprockle_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:51:01 @ask shachaf That was not a question. 03:51:01 Consider it noted. 03:51:19 shachaf, even if it's a three letter language? >.> 03:51:49 Oh, there are actually good three letter languages like Tcl 03:51:53 And Lua I guess 03:52:07 how about bashing Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 03:52:17 imo that would be worth a kickban 03:52:28 bankicks are better. 03:52:39 elliott kickbanned someone today "it was weird" 03:52:44 kicked first, then banned 03:53:09 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:53:31 Are you sure that was the order? 03:53:50 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [+o elliott] by ChanServ 03:53:50 17:33 -!- fwe was kicked from #haskell by elliott [fwe] 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [+b *!*ssjsj@31.205.67.*] by elliott 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [-o shachaf] by elliott 03:53:51 17:33 -!- mode/#haskell [-o elliott] by elliott 03:54:00 My favorite part was the part where he -oed me. 03:54:17 Curious. Those lines reached me in a bankick order. 03:54:25 Oh. 03:54:28 http://enet.bespin.org/ 03:54:36 What's the difference between that and Tcp? 03:54:39 It’s almost as if IRC doesn’t preserve global ordering! 03:54:46 Oh, that's in the FAQ 03:54:47 ion: gasp 03:56:15 -!- sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 03:56:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:02:54 hey Bike annoy me until isleep 04:03:10 Bike: talk about linguistics 04:03:22 ok hm 04:03:30 so, have you heard about call/cc being used in linguistics 04:03:51 oh boy i'm getting irritated already 04:04:03 if elliott is anything like me he'll go to sleep straight away 04:05:51 i guess the idea is something about continuations being isomorphic to xbars 04:06:57 Bike: i feel as if you are serving shachaf more than i 04:07:14 uh hm 04:07:15 elliott: Bike is serving me more than you're serving me? 04:07:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:07:34 how do you feel about computable reals not being compact 04:08:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:08:51 or: http://python-history.blogspot.com/2009/03/problem-with-integer-division.html 04:09:08 i dunno i assume the more i talk about anything the more annoyed you'll get b/c you hate bicycles 04:09:41 ugh guido 04:10:05 right 04:10:07 "So, originally you couldn’t add an int to a float, or even an int to a long. After Python was released publicly, Tim Peters quickly convinced me that this was a really bad idea" fuck 04:10:16 just backtrack on your only good decision ever or whatever 04:11:11 Bike: I don't hate bicycles! 04:11:18 Bike: Why is your nick "Bike", anyway? 04:12:02 um i wasn't talking to you 04:12:07 elliott's the h8r 04:19:52 elliott: eh i'm not a fan of implicit conversions, but there is a real usability issue there that shouldn't be ignored 04:20:39 it was definitely a mistake to have integer division truncate, though 04:20:43 and one they've fixed in python 3 04:22:04 This is one of the most important steps right here. WEAR CLOTHES! I can not stress this enough. Some of us enjoy naked gaming, but this is one of the comforts we have to give up in exchange for a streamlined pizza ordering process. 04:22:17 kmc: well i would be okay with "implicit conversions" if they actually worked ~like mathematics~ but that's sort of an impossible goal 04:22:34 i.e. if 1+0.5+0.5 was 2 and that 2 behaved "as an integer" wherever the distinction is relevant 04:22:39 upcasting to float is just silly 04:23:14 ide/theory: math is impossible 04:23:36 elliott: i hate to say it but there's some appeal to JavaScript's solution 04:23:57 i... disagree 04:24:01 make everything floats? 04:24:41 something like a mathematica-ish "everything is an expression and only done 'numerically' where precision can be maintained and then things like 'is an integer' is just a (possibly-undecidable) predicate" or whatever could work okay 04:25:03 Bike: you're not being annoying enough yet btw 04:25:14 elliott: can i be annoying 04:25:21 god since when do you have standards for being annoyed 04:25:23 Bike: yeah, or more generally having only one numeric type 04:25:28 (not asking whether i should, just whether i can) 04:25:33 only rationals would be p. cool 04:25:34 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:25:39 fuck the square root of 2 04:25:42 i dunno if i like that because it varies by application etc 04:25:44 kmc: cyclotomic numbers hth 04:25:52 kmc: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/cyclotomic/0.3.1/doc/html/Data-Complex-Cyclotomic.html 04:25:59 of course you could ask for an approximation of sqrt of 2 to within IEEE 754 double precision anyway 04:26:00 rationals with just dumb approximations for things like sqrt could work..... 04:26:01 sinful though 04:26:06 i like how doing math is like the first thing programming was for and we still haven't agreed on how to do it 04:26:06 cosinful 04:26:14 elliott: imo we should use continued fractions 04:26:22 the first thing programming was for was killing nazis 04:26:45 shachaf: that's nice 04:26:58 or maybe just algebraics 04:27:00 Bike: continued fractions are cute as hell 04:27:02 btw be more annoying 04:27:04 do we need transcendental numbers, really? imo no. 04:27:08 i want to sleeep 04:27:11 what are they actually 04:27:26 "the rational field extended with nth roots of unity for arbitrarily large integers n" i guess 04:27:46 "In number theory, a cyclotomic field is a number field obtained by adjoining a complex primitive root of unity to Q, the field of rational numbers." 04:27:50 i guess that's straightforward enough. 04:28:12 how are they represented? 04:28:29 god 04:28:30 bike 04:28:34 you don't care about me at all 04:28:34 data Cyclotomic = Cyclotomic { order :: Integer , coeffs :: M.Map Integer Rational } deriving (Eq) 04:28:38 no 04:28:45 elliott: you're being really annoying right now btw 04:28:49 kmc: its sure that microcontroller are not suitable for functionnal programming 04:28:50 haha as a polynomial, awesome. 04:28:53 elliott: maybe direct your annoyingness at yourself instead of at Bike 04:28:53 microcontroller have not enough ram for recursion 04:29:49 good representations of polynomials are something i should understand better really 04:31:57 hey Bike do you know the puzzle where you come up with some polynomial where all the coëfficients are nonnegative integers and tell me its value at any (positive) point and then i ask you for its value at another point 04:32:10 yeah, i think. 04:38:41 kmc: do you like algorithm, data structure, special thing, other paradigm... 04:39:03 shachaf, isn't that related to that secret sharing thing? I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to 04:39:17 Sgeo: I don't know what secret sharing thing, but probably not. 04:39:18 With sufficient points, you learn the polynomial, with insufficient points, you learn nothing 04:39:38 I only need to ask for one point. 04:39:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir's_Secret_Sharing 04:39:44 (After you give me one.) 04:40:06 Oh, then I have no idea 04:54:59 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:02:53 -!- JesseH has joined. 05:05:18 http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/88757/nice-well-orderings-of-the-reals agh 05:06:37 Shamir's Secret Sharing sounds like a spell in DC:SS. 05:09:05 And here I thought "well-ordering of the reals" meant something incredibly trivial and obvious 05:09:17 lol how'd you think that 05:09:39 I have no idea what "Lebesgue measurable" means 05:10:04 Ooh, I know what it means. Uh, almost. Lemme think. 05:10:42 the lebesgue measure of an interval is just the high minus the low. 05:10:49 then you build up unions, etc. 05:10:59 then you run into vitali sets and become the unabomber. 05:11:02 So how is it a Boolean? 05:11:11 what 05:11:15 First, there's this thing called the "outer measure" of a set. 05:11:21 who the hell said anything about bools 05:11:21 "Question: is it equiconsistent with reasonable large cardinals that there is a well-ordering of the reals which - as a relation on R2 - is Lebesgue measurable?" 05:11:30 tswett: re shamir: yes 05:11:34 what does that have to do with bools 05:11:39 http://shachaf.net/what-about-this-channel.txt 05:11:46 zero-knowledge proofs would be a good RPG power as well 05:11:51 404. 05:11:58 "This well-ordering is Lebesgue measurable" vs "This well-ordering is not Lebesgue measurable" 05:12:03 So let's say that a "boxing" of a set S is a countable set T of closed boxes, such that the union of T is a superset of S. 05:12:21 Sgeo: that's whether you /can/ measure it, i.e. that it has a measure, not what that measure is. 05:12:38 vitali sets are non-measurable, so's the well-ordering (as a relation in the usual construction of relations) 05:12:52 Vitali? 05:12:54 The measure of a boxing is just the sum of the sizes of all of the boxes. The outer measure of a set is the infimum of the measures of all of its boxings. 05:13:01 Vitali. 05:13:03 I'm going to go to sleep 05:13:06 named after a guy named Vitali. 05:13:46 Now, for all sets that have Lebesgue measure, the Lebesgue measure is equal to the outer measure. And a set is Lebesgue measurable if and only if it has a Lebesgue measure. 05:13:49 Oh! 05:13:52 R^2, not R 05:13:58 So the only remaining question is: what does it mean for a set to be measurable? 05:14:04 -roll- 05:14:19 And the answer is, uh... 05:14:43 I'm going to get some sleep. Sleep off the sleep deprivation drunk 05:14:51 get drunker 05:14:51 Whuch is different from actual drjnk 05:14:52 I dunno. Lemme look it up. 05:15:00 I don't like 'actual' stuff very much 05:15:40 I don't do genetic manipulation of actual animals, I don't get actual drunk 05:15:51 missing out imo 05:15:52 on both 05:16:02 have you considered getting mutants drunk 05:16:10 Okay. A set S is measurable if and only if for all sets A, the outer measure of A is the outer measure of A \ S plus the outer measure of A intersect S. 05:16:13 Apparently. 05:17:24 http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/137657/is-there-a-well-ordering-of-the-reals-measurable-or-not?lq=1 05:17:29 I'm even more confused now 05:17:41 Oh hey, I got the Nice Question badge for this question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11870884/vim-says-no-mouse-support-but-only-when-i-run-git-commit 05:18:02 * Sgeo 's brain elided the word 'Nice' 05:18:11 So, Question badge... 05:18:38 "Is there a well-ordering of the reals after all, measurable or not?" lolololol 05:18:57 Do you get a badge at 50 answerpoints? 05:18:58 Sgeo: if you want to talk about it before you sleep, what's confusing 05:19:18 Bike, how the answer isn't trivially yes 05:19:41 Ok, so, what's a well ordering? 05:20:30 How there could exist two reals, a and b, for which none of (a < b) (a > b) (a = b) is correct. I guess there's more to it, such as consistency when c is introduced? 05:20:41 That's not a well order. 05:20:43 Bike: you know the sorcerer's apprentice? it's kind of like that 05:20:44 That's just a total order. 05:20:58 A well order is a total order + every subset has a least element. 05:21:24 Oh 05:21:46 Rationals aren't well-ordered then either, I think 05:21:48 < isn't a well order on the reals. For example, consider the nonzero positive reals. 05:22:01 Yeah, the usual ordering on the rational orders isn't well. 05:22:03 But, if you have the axiom of choice you can show that a well order does exist. 05:22:03 Wait, hmm 05:22:07 scandalous, I know 05:22:10 Nor is the usual ordering on the integers. 05:23:01 Hmm... Does the C spec actually specify there can't be more than 2^(CHAR_BIT * sizeof(void *)) distinct values of type void *? 05:23:45 does the C spec ever talk about cardinalities of types 05:24:01 Well, the question is whether C can be Turing-complete this way. 05:24:03 mostly implied by limits.h, aren't they? 05:24:16 limits.h for void *? 05:24:29 none. 05:24:41 would that include those int ptr things 05:24:44 it's okay to access a void* pointer as a bunch of uint8_t, right? by aliasing rules 05:24:53 so you could use that to show that constraint applies 05:24:56 I think it is totally valid to limit the possible values of void* to 32... 05:25:05 Fiora: Would it? 05:25:14 hmm, wait, 32 is too small, let's say it'd be 4096. 05:25:59 shachaf: like, if sizeof(void*) is x, and you access it as a series of x char values, then each char can have at most 2^CHAR_BIT values, so....? 05:26:23 I don't know, just a guess >_< 05:26:35 How many uint8_t do you need 05:26:36 Can you actually access it as a series of x char values, I mean? 05:26:39 Fiora: not exactly, since some representations of void* can be declared invalid. same goes for integers. 05:26:39 sizeof(void*)? 05:28:01 Fiora: let me quote a footnote in C99: In particular, if == is defined for type T, then x == y does not imply that memcmp(&x, &y, sizeof (T)) == 0. 05:28:07 lifthrasiir: it can be an upper bound though, right? 05:28:11 right 05:28:22 like it can't be a lower bound, but it can be an upper one, which is what shachaf asked for, right? or did I misunderstand 05:28:50 shachaf: void *y; char *x = (char*)&y; I guess? 05:29:23 Fiora: Well, sure you can write that code. I'm not sure whether it's actually allowed. 05:29:27 yeah, it is guaranteed that a conformant C program cannot access the infinite memory (but it can access the arbitrarily large memory). 05:29:40 lifthrasiir: Guaranteed where? 05:29:59 uh, sorry, wait a min, I may have misread the spec, 05:30:08 I thought intptr_t is mandatory but it wasn't 05:30:18 intptr_t is mandatory in C99, I think? 05:30:24 (any integer types including intptr_t are guaranteed to be finite) 05:30:37 but like, intptr_t is just "a type big enough to hold any pointer", isn't it? like, it's allowed to be bigger than void* 05:30:54 Well, it's still an upper bound, like you said. 05:30:57 yes, so I thought it is an ultimate upper bound. 05:31:03 (not tight one of course0 05:31:05 )* 05:31:15 I guess if you're allowed to cast to intptr_t and back that's enough... 05:31:18 it could be larger than 2^(sizeof(void*)*CHAR_BIT)... right...? 05:31:25 Right. 05:31:40 The goal was to figure out whether you can make a Turing-complete implementation of C, though. 05:32:15 hmm, sizeof() is guaranteed to return a finite result (the value of the result is implementation-defined, and not an undefined behavior) 05:32:34 Sure. 05:32:35 and CHAR_BIT should be finite either 05:32:39 oh... 05:32:43 so void* should be finite too 05:32:44 sorry, I didn't realize the context 05:32:52 lifthrasiir: void * has a finite sizeof. 05:33:06 The question was whether via a tricky reading of the rules you could have more than that many void * values. 05:33:22 (Well, in particular infinitely many.) 05:33:28 I think not 05:33:39 The intptr_t argument seems convincing, I guess. 05:34:18 Hmm, my stackoverflow question is up to 50 votes. 05:34:20 since C requires every non-bit-field values ("objects" in the spec) to be stored as an array of bytes of CHAR_BIT bits 05:34:23 Was that one of you? 05:34:27 I didn't get a badge. 05:34:50 such representation is explicitly called an "object representation" 05:34:58 and should exist for any non-bit-field values 05:35:06 including void* 05:35:31 (in fact, this also prohibits a native implementation of C in ternary computers) 05:36:22 well, language lawyering is fun! 05:42:08 -!- conehead has joined. 05:46:29 hey there are four operating RBMK reactors (Chernobyl design) about 233 km from Helsinki 05:50:11 and 70 km from St. Petersburg 05:50:28 are they like, upgraded 05:50:40 don't know 05:51:00 it's a fundamentally unsafe design 05:51:11 cool, cool 05:52:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK#Design_flaws_and_safety_issues 05:52:56 "based on 1950s Soviet technology and optimized for speed of production over redundancy, the RBMK was designed and constructed with several design characteristics that proved dangerously unstable when operated outside their design specifications" 05:52:58 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBMK#Design_flaws_and_safety_issues 05:53:07 httpschaf 05:53:14 oh boy 05:55:20 soviet power plus irradiation of the whole country 05:56:28 the link mentions a few post-chernobyl improvements 05:58:22 not that comforting 05:58:55 "Legasov's death from suicide, " uh, whoa 06:01:34 "Scram is usually cited as being an acronym for safety control rod axe man" 06:02:12 «When I showed up on the balcony on that December 2, 1942 afternoon, I was ushered to the balcony rail, handed a well sharpened fireman's ax and told, "if the safety rods fail to operate, cut that manila rope."» haha 06:02:28 the life of a grad student 06:03:00 "Although Koehler did not serve as a rope-cutting control rod axe-man, he was responsible for dumping a bucket of aqueous cadmium solution into the reactor if reactor period entered into the sub-optimal range" 06:03:04 "the sub-optimal range" 06:08:08 "at which point the rods would fall by gravity into the reactor core" 06:08:28 oh they fall by _gravity_ 06:09:00 wait 06:09:06 i'm not in the same article anymore. 06:09:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scram i'm in this one in case you aren't doing the exact same random walk. 06:09:48 wait 06:09:52 okay i solved the mystery 06:10:02 i didn't get there from the link but from googling what you said. 06:11:50 weird cultural difference i guess. 06:12:40 really there's never a need to link something if the other person happens to have google 06:17:05 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:36:53 -!- mnoqy has joined. 06:37:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 06:50:56 ☹ ☹ 06:50:58 · · 06:51:01 ☹ 06:51:03 /‾\ 06:51:06 06:51:08 ----- 06:51:11 / \ 06:51:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:58:20 what / why 06:58:56 oh i made it for a different channel but then i decided not to spam 06:58:59 what is it tho 06:59:02 also i think i saw it before 06:59:10 this might be a new version 06:59:18 v. 2.0 06:59:30 (not to spam "that channel" i mean...................well this channel might be unspammable) 06:59:53 kmc: when are you inventing the esolang "Main Page.".............................. 06:59:59 `welcome kmc 07:00:04 kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:00:14 later / neer 07:00:18 / never 07:30:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:31:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 07:33:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 07:35:50 -!- mnoqy has joined. 07:36:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:38:20 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:44:06 -!- Koen_ has joined. 07:59:50 the school i'm enrolled in it super hilly, to the extent that there's a place called Johnson Flats, which is not flat and is on a hill <-- wait aren't you in luxembourg i'm confuse 08:00:33 or at least somewhere european without english as first language 08:01:06 canada? 08:01:41 canada is not somewhere european without english as first language, olsner 08:02:27 isn't Bike in washington state usa 08:03:40 qwest.net seems to be owned by centurylink, which looks distinctly us 08:03:40 oerjan: ok, sorry for trying :( 08:04:07 kmc: I'VE BEEN DECEIVED 08:04:47 s/owned/swallowed by/ 08:06:37 oerjan made the neighbour prediction before taneb said he lived in northumberland <-- i think north (east?) england had been mentioned, though 08:07:44 `pastelogs next door 08:08:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24031 08:08:42 HackEgo: chop chop 08:09:57 I had said Northern 08:10:08 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-12#195258oerjan 08:12:40 was just looking for that 08:16:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:20:52 `pastaquotes 08:20:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastaquotes: not found 08:20:58 `pastaquote 08:20:59 973) I think pastaquote should just quote me 08:21:04 good, good 08:30:32 `pastequotes atriq 08:30:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28558 08:30:40 Taneb: YOU MISSED ONE 08:31:04 wtf there are no atriq quotes 08:31:07 ikr 08:32:00 i can only conclude that atriq is your bumbling hyde personality 08:32:12 Or maybe... 08:32:18 Maybe atriq is the Jekyll! 08:32:29 anyway, not very eloquent 08:32:51 Or maybe I just didn't use atriq as much 08:32:55 wait i just wondered... 08:33:31 no there cannot be any trailing space because it wasn't made by nick completion 08:33:49 `pastequotes Taneb 08:33:53 I didn't do `pastequotes atriq because I knew there weren't any 08:33:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16568 08:34:18 ho hum... 08:34:29 this cannot be right either 08:34:36 `pastequotes Taneb 08:34:41 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2234 08:35:04 `pastequotes Taneb 08:35:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27739 08:35:51 apparently there really are no quotes where Taneb is followed by space 08:36:01 sadly, this doesn't help with atriq 08:38:57 -!- sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:40:08 Nobody knows what happened to Facekicker for the past 8 years, though 08:40:28 are we _really_ absolutely sure they're different elliotts twh 08:40:42 Yeah, Facekicker's actually an Eliot 08:40:48 oh right 08:40:49 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:41:40 we might assume facekicker went on to a promising career in either kung fu movies or crime. 08:42:09 well, why not boh 08:42:11 *both 08:46:05 if you google elliott hird it's a mix of elliott and a kitchen planner 08:46:21 clearly his blog needs more posts hth 08:52:40 `addquote “Haiers Medical-Circular Stapler For Rectal Prolapse And Hemorrhoids.wmv” /me refrains from clicking good choice Yes, i’m pretty happy about it. 08:52:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:52:44 1056) “Haiers Medical-Circular Stapler For Rectal Prolapse And Hemorrhoids.wmv” /me refrains from clicking good choice Yes, i’m pretty happy about it. 08:52:53 `seen kmc 08:52:58 2013-06-20 08:02:27: isn't Bike in washington state usa 08:53:04 `seen shachaf 08:53:08 2013-06-20 08:53:04: `seen shachaf 08:53:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:03:15 http://modernjavascript.blogspot.com/2013/06/monads-in-plain-javascript.html 09:03:17 good old Maybe 09:05:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:16:05 -!- studentY has joined. 09:16:19 -!- studentY has left. 09:39:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:12:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:15:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:51:39 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:55:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:08:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:12:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:15:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:16:10 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:17:36 -!- dedda1994 has joined. 11:17:51 hey guys 11:19:01 `welcome dedda1994 11:19:04 dedda1994: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 11:19:07 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 11:24:54 Hi 11:26:50 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:28:15 -!- carado has joined. 11:28:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Client Quit). 11:28:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:31:27 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 12:03:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:08:44 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:12:13 -!- dedda1994 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:16:23 -!- olsner has joined. 12:18:00 -!- olsner has quit (Client Quit). 12:18:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:21:15 -!- augur has joined. 12:23:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:24:17 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:27:00 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:52:30 shachaf: This is best monad tutorial. 12:57:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:01:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:06:40 -!- augur has joined. 13:12:48 -!- olsner has joined. 13:16:04 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:31:44 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:42:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:45:49 -!- olsner has joined. 13:52:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:58:14 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:18:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:28:45 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 14:54:56 -!- hogeyui____ has changed nick to hogeyui. 14:55:30 -!- hogeyui has changed nick to hogeyui_. 14:55:32 -!- hogeyui_ has changed nick to hogeyui. 15:00:39 -!- clog has joined. 15:06:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 15:09:50 hi clog 15:12:54 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:04:07 hi clog. 16:04:44 hi Bike 16:05:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:05:23 -!- heroux has joined. 16:06:14 hi elliott 16:06:49 hi Bike 16:07:02 hi 16:12:13 :') 16:12:45 does anyone know about the identify-msg IRC CAP 16:12:48 i bet one of the finns do 16:12:51 hey Deewiant hey ion 16:13:46 Never heard of it 16:14:08 thanks 16:14:55 sounds like bullshit 16:32:23 -!- guestbot has joined. 16:51:22 -!- hiato has joined. 16:55:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:34 -!- augur has joined. 17:11:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:21:50 If you have a bunch of groups, all of different sizes, then the groups are totally ordered by order. 17:24:14 -!- olsner has joined. 17:24:48 hi oerjan 17:25:08 hichaf 17:25:13 hi elliott 17:25:14 hello shachaf 17:25:41 tswett: that's like totally rad 17:25:50 actually, hello *everybody* 17:25:56 -!- augur has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 17:26:01 -!- conehead has joined. 17:26:05 hello everybody except clog and elliott 17:26:14 helsner 17:26:17 http://www.theonion.com/articles/mcdonalds-considering-franchising-restaurants-afte,32897/ 17:26:58 Hello, everybody in all possible worlds. 17:27:51 wow, that's awefully inclusive of you 17:27:58 The world is changing, and frankly we’re running out of family members who speak Mandarin 17:31:10 btw did you know mcdonalds isn't a trademark in scotland, and they need the actual clan's permission to use it? 17:32:14 That explains why they only sell the McHaggis Quarter Pounder with Bladder there. 17:32:16 haha that's fantastic 17:32:58 fun fact: McDonald's was originally named cDonald's, after the theorem. the famous arches were originally circular. 17:33:46 oh i guess using "circular" ruins that 17:33:55 elliott: why? 17:34:01 there's a cDonald theorem? 17:34:20 haven't you seen look around you. 17:34:31 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cDonald's%20Theorem 17:34:43 -!- augur has joined. 17:34:50 oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J9MRYJz9-4#t=24s 17:36:08 i love how they pronounce "cDonald" 17:38:43 hm i'm wondering if what i said was actually true. 17:39:14 the following looks like a counterargument: "The company has threatened many food businesses with legal action unless it drops the Mc or Mac from trading names. In one noteworthy case, McDonald's sued a Scottish café owner called McDonald, even though the business in question dated back over a century (Sheriff Court Glasgow and Strathkelvin, November 21, 1952)." 17:40:30 MacGregor's Quarter Pounder with Scotch 17:40:46 lol 17:43:33 oerjan, the clan thing might have been established later 17:49:24 hm looks more and more dubious 17:49:33 tragic 17:49:57 which makes me wonder where i first read it 18:06:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:24 oerjan: Fortunately, there's no requirement at all for "did you know that X?" statements to actually be true. 18:26:52 s/Fortunately,/did you know that/ hth 18:27:39 -!- augur has joined. 18:28:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:31 helliott 18:35:51 ion: hi do you know about identify-msg CAP 18:36:37 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:36:43 no 18:37:15 you suck 18:37:17 :( 18:37:53 I know now. 18:38:40 but do you know enough to answer my questions about it 18:39:02 Let me travel to the future to find out. 18:44:13 It's a cap, and when you equip it, it may randomly identify items hth 18:46:27 fizzie: Sorry, no. It only identities monosodium glutamate. 18:49:15 sounds like something triangle and robert could have used 18:56:42 Why the hell do I like PHP on Facebook 18:59:16 Well, I don't any more 19:03:52 php has a facebook? 19:04:51 yup 19:17:52 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:18:16 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:23:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:27:07 meet hot single in YOUR area who like PHP 19:28:00 hot singleton 19:28:07 meet hot shot young hustler jesus in your area 19:29:52 -!- Bike has joined. 19:30:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:32:21 -!- augur has joined. 19:34:35 https://www.facebook.com/PHP wow 19:35:14 "Yeah! Not a day to soon. Death to C# and java B)" 19:35:50 the changelog's a bit scary 19:35:52 Added ARMv7/v8 versions of various Zend arithmetic functions that are implemented using inline assembler 19:36:04 I have three FB friends who like PHP. D-: 19:36:11 oh man they added finally. finally 19:36:16 Wow, they're already doing ARMv8 stuff 19:36:23 every time someone mentions Zend i think of Zond 19:36:41 kneel before zend 19:36:52 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_rocket 19:36:56 "Added support for using empty() on the result of function calls and other expressions" huh? 19:37:03 "Each of the four attempts to launch an N1 failed; during the second launch attempt the N1 rocket crashed back onto its launch pad shortly after liftoff and exploded, resulting in one of the largest artificial non-nuclear explosion in human history" 19:37:13 wooow. 30 main engines @_@ 19:37:33 "Fixed bug #64515 (Memoryleak when using the same variablename 2times in function declaration)" um 19:37:39 entertainingly those engines are actually the ones being used in the 'new' nasa cargo rocket they were showing off a while back 19:37:44 "After detecting the inoperative fuel pump, the automatic engine control shut off 29 of 30 engines, which caused the rocket to fall." 19:37:48 good programming imo 19:37:51 lol 19:38:13 oh, wait, i've heard of N1, isn't it the one that vaporized half the engineers in the soviet union 19:38:21 20:36:55 "Added support for using empty() on the result of function calls and other expressions" huh? 19:38:26 php has a lot of nice things which only work on variable names 19:38:29 for no apparent reason 19:38:32 Bike, ...maybe 19:38:34 isn't 30 engines like a redundancy nightmare? @_@ that's a lot of parts 19:38:37 elliott: good, good 19:38:41 you have to assign stuff to variables a lot to be able to like index them as arrays or whatever 19:38:42 if just one fails it'd throw things off balance, right? 19:38:44 for no good reason 19:38:57 no, that thing was an icbm prototype 19:39:01 Fiora, depends 19:39:11 Phantom_Hoover: oh 19:39:21 if you have 30 then it's not that big a torque and you might be able to correct with your control systems 19:39:24 ah 19:39:27 yeah i thought it was an R-7 test 19:39:34 that's what they did when one of the engines in the falcon 9 test failed 19:39:36 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=64523 what the /hell/ 19:39:49 When destination folder of a copy haven't enough place, copy reports success instead of failure. 19:40:22 Fixed bug #64895 (Integer overflow in SndToJewish) 19:40:37 what 19:40:45 sndtojewish 19:41:01 kmc: can i hire you to work out how to get a good deal on EC2 for me 19:41:10 i think it's about the hebrew calendar? 19:41:20 @g jdtojewish 19:41:20 Maybe you meant: gazetteer get-shapr get-topic ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki v @ ? . 19:41:23 er. 19:41:26 @google jdtojewish 19:41:27 http://php.net/manual/en/function.jdtojewish.php 19:41:28 Title: PHP: jdtojewish - Manual 19:41:32 what the hell is girl19 19:41:48 "Converts a Julian day count to a Jewish calendar date" 19:41:50 yeah i need that. 19:42:08 that should definitely be in the default global namespace 19:43:05 man it doesn't even report a bad value, it just hangs 19:43:10 how great is that 19:43:13 php great 19:43:33 «That is, you cannot do `SELF::CNST` or `SELF::$VAR` or `SELF::METHOD()`. But it's possible to use `constant("SELF::CNST")` or `call_user_func` with uppercase `SELF` keyword.» 19:44:06 «if use '@', you can call function in a string substitution context.» help 19:44:35 paging elliott 19:44:44 i should put a highlight on @ 19:44:46 elliott: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61681 you need this feature, imo 19:45:40 @get-sh 19:45:40 shapr!! 19:45:42 so weird 19:45:45 @t 19:45:45 Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? . 19:45:46 @girl19 19:45:46 LOL 19:45:47 @te 19:45:47 Who should I tell? 19:45:50 @girl19 19:45:50 LOL 19:45:50 hmm 19:45:54 this seems dumb 19:45:55 @girl19 19:45:55 I've always found myself unequal to the intellectual pressure of programming 19:45:57 what 19:45:59 um. 19:46:01 @help girl19 19:46:01 girl19 wonders what "discriminating hackers" are. 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 well.. I never hacked Russians 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 I'm in Moscow, Russia 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 I have stolen about 50 msn and yahoo accounts 19:46:04 @girl19 19:46:04 am I supposed to be frantic with terror and anxiety? 19:46:17 y'all need a db of all these damn injokes 19:46:33 oh hey. "This extension is now deprecated, and deprecation warnings will be generated when connections are established to databases via mysql_connect(), mysql_pconnect(), or through implicit connection: use MySQLi or PDO_MySQL instead" 19:46:36 elliott: hey i have a lambdabot proposal "can you guess what it is" 19:46:43 i wonder how many security bugs that would remove 19:46:52 it's great how there's no uniform db api in php 19:46:58 totally different functions for mysql, postgres, etc 19:47:06 wonder whether i should remove the unique prefix behaviour along with the specialcasing of unique spell corrections 19:47:15 Generator is an internal class, so there shouldn't be an ability to create it by hand. However, the Generator class doesn't have a private constructor and instance of it can be created via ReflectionClass. 19:47:19 Solution: add a private constructor for this class to prevent instantiation (like for Closure class). 19:47:22 awesome and rad 19:47:32 I was thinking more along the lines of removing @girl19. 19:47:51 Fixed bug #60097 (token_get_all fails to lex nested heredoc) 19:47:54 The prefix thing is OK. 19:48:19 i was ignoring your proposal actually 19:48:26 this is something i was already looking into!! 19:48:26 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=64765 these are so great 19:49:27 ok uh, this SndToJewish thing is listed as being fixed, three different times 19:49:42 what list are you reading 19:50:04 is Snd... "standard"? it looks like "sound" 19:50:07 the changelog http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-5.php 19:50:32 http://www.scip.ch/en/?vuldb.9021 oh my god. 19:50:40 this is my new favorite bug 19:51:11 woow 19:51:25 that sndtojewish thing resulted in a critical exploit? geez 19:51:51 what do you mean there are reasons not to stuff every library into the core of your language 19:52:01 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=54096 geez these are really weird 19:52:39 php has a built in julian to hebrew calendar conversion function, fiora. it is beyond weird. 19:53:04 I mean like I feel like I'm missing 90% of this 19:53:06 "comparsion of incomplete DateTime causes SIGSEGV" good, good 19:53:12 "PHP defines -0 as an int", but wouldn't -0 just resolve to 0? 19:53:20 not in php it wouldn't 19:53:32 and there's this filter function that "checks if values are ints", but if you wanted to see if a float was int, wouldn't you just do if( floor(f) == f )? 19:53:42 ... well I guess there's infinities and things 19:53:58 ... if( (float)(int)f == f )? 19:54:08 wow this is bad 19:54:17 Bike: um... explain? >_< 19:54:26 i have no idea 19:54:33 i don't know php, i just see endless insane bug reports 19:55:02 the whole "this is an interpreted language but it works differently on 32-bit and 64-bit" seems really weird too 19:55:18 there was one bug where the put in inline amd64 assembly but didn't conditionalize it 19:55:21 gj people 19:55:24 @_@ 19:55:34 Fiora: sadly ghc haskell has that too 19:55:38 Int is platform-dependent size 19:56:17 kmc: well ghc is primarily a compiler so depending on your interpretation of "that" 19:56:27 though it has many traits people relate to "interpreted languages", of course 19:56:49 isn't int platform-dependent in C 19:56:53 yeah I meant for high level languages 19:56:54 does... does php have data types? 19:56:55 Bike: yes 19:57:19 i mean having a type that's defined to have a max that varies by platform seems fine to me 19:57:20 the only thing worse than platform-dependent sized Int is platform-independent sized Int 19:57:40 plus doesn't the haskell standard say it has to be at least 2^31 or whatever 19:57:47 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:57:50 Bike: yeah, but like, it has builtin functions that work differently on 32-bit and 64-bit which seems really weird 19:57:55 Bike: makes semantics of haskell programs much less clear, causes portability problems, severely hurts distributed computing 19:57:55 Fiora: not as you know them. not as any of us know thelm 19:57:55 the mandated range is just -2^29 .. 2^29-1 19:58:12 how's it hurt distributed computing 19:58:13 ? 19:58:21 allowing 32-bit implementations to reserve 2 bits for tagging 19:58:39 right 19:58:43 Bike: because you have a single program where multiple parts of it run on heterogeneous machines 19:58:54 so Int means different things at different points of your program 19:58:58 and can store different values 19:59:06 and will get messed up communicating between agents that disagree about its size 19:59:09 so like, for portability it's better to use Integer? 19:59:13 so you have to completely avoid Int if you want sanity 19:59:21 Fiora: or the fixed-size Int32/Int64 19:59:24 ahhh 19:59:44 does Int32 fit in 32-bit? or like, does it not fit because of tag bits? 19:59:57 it's boxed :x 20:00:03 so it is actually a pointer to a 32-bit integer 20:00:13 oooh 20:00:13 (except GHC can automatically unbox it when you use it as a strict field of a data type with optimisations and blah blah blah) 20:00:16 (so it's not quite as bad as it sounds) 20:00:19 is Int boxed? 20:00:24 yeah 20:00:29 oh, so *everything* is boxed? 20:00:36 It's a pointer to a machine integer, actually -- just the operations on it truncate to 32 bits. 20:00:37 more or less (GHC has unboxed types that are fiddly to use) 20:00:49 if you have like a tight numerical loop though GHC will usually be able to unbox everything "at the start" 20:00:50 Yes, only boxed values are first-class in Haskell in general. 20:00:56 and then work with unboxed values for the loop itself 20:00:57 so like, if I have an array of 1 million ints, will it be 1 million boxes, or a box with 1 million things? 20:01:07 there are both boxed and unboxed arrays 20:01:13 so it can be either depending on which is better 20:01:16 If you use an unboxed array it'll have 1 million Ints. 20:01:17 ahhh 20:01:26 and a boxed array will have 1 million unboxed ints? 20:01:40 No, it'll have a million boxes. 20:01:41 1 million boxed ints 20:01:48 oh. I thought ints were boxed 20:02:00 er, I think we mixed up something at some point 20:02:02 an "unboxed array" means a boxed array of unboxed things, probably 20:02:04 "(un)boxed array" means it's an array of (un)boxed things. 20:02:04 ahhh 20:02:08 right 20:02:13 so an unboxed array of 1m ints is 4 megabytes 20:02:16 (on 32-bit) 20:02:17 an unboxed array of Ints knows what Ints are a box around 20:02:20 and a boxed one would be 8 megabytes? 20:02:20 plus epsilon 20:02:21 and stores that instead 20:02:34 Fiora: depending on sizes of boxes etc. 20:02:35 Fiora: well, boxed values have like additional pointers in addition to the actual data they store 20:02:36 Probably more than 8 megabytes... 20:02:43 boxed arrays can have lazy values can't they 20:02:47 to facilitate lazy evaluation and such 20:02:53 and it means access has a lot more indirection in a boxed array 20:03:01 Bike: right 20:03:06 I think a boxed Int takes two machine words, and the pointer in the array takes an additional machine word. 20:03:11 (fwiw, advantage of boxed arrays is that they can store everything, whereas unboxed arrays need to know things about what they store, and you can store thunks (unfinished computations) in boxed arrays, whereas in unboxed arrays you can only store evaluated results, so no fancy laziness tricks) 20:03:13 every element is a pointer to a heap object, which can be a thunk 20:03:23 oh, boxed values have more than just the value itself plus a pointer to it? 20:03:31 well since this is haskell 20:03:35 there are lazy values 20:03:48 ah 20:03:55 which like kmc said are thunky 20:03:57 right it's important to note that an Int value might be a pointer to *some code* 20:04:00 that you haven't evaluated yet 20:04:08 but an unboxed integer is just a plain old integer 20:04:13 Fiora: a 'boxed value' is a heap object, or a pointer to one. heap objects have a uniform structure, the first word is always a pointer to an 'info table' 20:04:24 and then they have zero or more data fields which can have different sizes 20:04:33 the uniformity is what allows polymorphic code to work 20:04:41 ah... so it'd be at least 12 megabytes 20:04:43 you can force evaluation of a heap object without knowing its type 20:04:44 minus laziness? 20:04:46 elliott: but uh, when you say can store everything, they're uniformly typed anyway aren't they 20:05:01 I am probably looking at this totally wrong and thinking of haskell as if it was like C <.< 20:05:03 Unless some of the Ints are shared, anyway. 20:05:10 you might find the STG machine paper interesting if you're interested in the details of how this stuff works, though I think it's fairly different in GHC nowadays (in particular their "spineless tagless G-machine" has tags???) 20:05:14 yeah you can't really reason about storage very well, can you? 20:05:20 Bike: yeah but I mean you can make an Array a for any a 20:05:22 Perhaps http://spl.smugmug.com/Humor/Lambdacats/13227630_j2MHcg/960526161_XwKHSBM#!i=960526161&k=XwKHSBM&lb=1&s=L can clarify. 20:05:25 it doesn't have the kind of tags they're talking about not having in the STG paper 20:05:32 whereas like an unboxed array will require some condition on what "a" is so it knows how to store it unboxed 20:05:33 GHC doesn't use tag bits to distinguish pointers from integers 20:05:39 somebody here linked me to a paper where whatshisname was like "you can reason about space! weird, huh" 20:05:41 it does use tag bits on pointers to mark things which are already known to be evaluated 20:06:02 it's not impossible to reason about space usage of Haskell programs, but it's definitely less simple than in C or whatever 20:06:44 there's also sharing, like if you store 4+7 into an array a million times it'll all use the same thunk? 20:06:47 right? 20:06:54 assuming you store the "same" 4+7 20:06:54 into a boxed array yeah 20:07:02 it'll store the same pointer a bajillion times 20:07:04 let x = 4+7 in listArray [0,1000] (repeat x) 20:07:32 4+7 is sort of a bad example since it might get like constant folded and stuff but the principle, yeah 20:07:35 oh, does ghc not pick out common subexpressions like that 20:07:42 it does it very conservatively 20:07:47 because you can introduce bad space leaks that way 20:07:49 elliott: Well, it'll get shared whether it's an unevaluated thunk or not. 20:07:49 yeah i figured but it's easier to say than (foo y) 20:08:13 shachaf: does GHC not like preallocate a bunch of Ints for small values? 20:08:14 well anyway, to sum up, fiora, php is dumb 20:08:18 which would distort the idea 20:09:14 Fixed bug #43177 (Errors in eval()'ed code produce status code 500). 20:09:37 okay... 20:09:41 Bike: um, unrelatedly, http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/404.pdf 20:09:53 sharing is p. cool. in Haskell if you implement a binary tree with an insert function, in the most obvious naive way, you get a cool persistent data structure where new versions of the tree share nodes with old ones 20:10:04 Fiora: wassat. 20:10:21 and this isn't some crazy compiler optimization either, it's p. much fundamental to the language's data model 20:10:21 kmc: that requires changing your notion of "obvious" 20:10:25 it's a super lightweight block cipher 20:10:39 ooh 20:10:50 -!- sprocklem has joined. 20:11:01 "With regard to throughput, we note that the fastest reported software implementation of AES-128 available on an Atmel 8-bit microcontroller has a cost of 125 cycles/byte, and uses 1912 bytes of flash and 432 bytes of SRAM [BOSC10]. For a slight decrease in speed, the same 20:11:05 implementers offer a more balanced implementation with a cost of 135 cycles/byte, using 1912 bytes of flash and 176 bytes of SRAM. Our high-speed Speck128/128 implementation has comparable throughput, at 139 cycles/byte, but uses only 388 bytes of flash and 256 bytes of SRAM." 20:11:24 flash 20:11:30 they have a hardware optimized one and a software optimized one 20:11:33 > 139/2 20:11:34 the hardware optimized one can be done in like, ~1300 gates 20:11:34 69.5 20:11:41 that's only 69.5 bicycles/byte! 20:11:45 ... shachaf XD 20:11:53 good rate. 20:12:13 god, half these bugs are about segfaults 20:12:37 almost like the PHP interpreter is a C program written by idiots 20:12:44 "Fixed bug #63369 ((un)serialize() leaves dangling pointers, causes crashes)" 20:13:43 Fixed bug #62896 ("DateTime->modify('+0 days')" modifies DateTime object) <-- what. 20:14:56 also laziness is important if you want good performance from persistent data structures 20:15:10 alright "segfault" is in here 276 times 20:16:14 "fault", 483. 20:16:21 that has a lot of "default" though i guess whatever 20:16:25 `pastlog segfault 20:16:50 2010-02-14.txt:20:49:06: Sweet, I made a megahal brain that segfaults >_> 20:17:22 megahal 20:17:42 Fiora: oh man NSA is this Top Secret 20:18:17 eeheee 20:18:21 no it's public I think 20:18:23 like just published 20:29:50 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:33:45 i think this is that disaster Bike and Phantom_Hoover referred to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe 20:33:53 yeah 20:34:00 (oops, forgot the link) 20:34:37 yeah, that's the one. 20:35:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:40:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:33 `words 20:41:36 ser 20:41:38 -!- guestbot has left. 20:44:50 Jeg ser, jeg ser... / Jeg er visst kommet på en feil klode! / Her er så underlig... 21:01:17 http://www.theonion.com/articles/10-giant-cocks,32276/ attn kmc 21:01:26 WELL THEN 21:01:57 oh these aren't that big 21:02:15 ok the elephant cock is pretty big 21:03:44 how does the nsa thing keep getting worse. helllllp 21:06:09 what now 21:06:28 just looking through @0xabad1dea's feed 21:06:51 "Speaking your username aloud on a phone call to another country is evidence the person behind the username is foreign" etc 21:07:16 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:09:24 hey. wait a minute. ELLIOTTCABLE is here. 21:09:29 what's happening 21:11:35 "Ahhhh youtube 502 ahhhhh I cant reach my touhous" 21:11:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: NSACABLE). 21:12:17 lol 21:19:08 Right. 21:19:57 Work done is difference in kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is mass times velocity is force times distance. These are both measured in Joules 21:20:35 Bike: see, you just have to have *plush* touhous 21:20:39 then you can reach them whenever ! 21:20:40 Power is energy by time, it is measure in Js^-1 or Watts 21:21:06 are you taking a kinetics class 21:21:18 Fiora: what if the plush is kidnapped 21:21:25 Bike, hopefully past tense. The exam is in less than 11 hours 21:21:50 nobody's kidnapped mine!~ 21:22:15 https://room208.org/booru/data/9160f5fe9e4332617661b5d4f548dcd4.jpg seee they're all safe and sound 21:22:36 Whoa, power is also force times velocity? 21:23:28 probably 21:23:29 yes 21:23:36 Fiora: i'm pretty sure there are so many you could easily lose one 21:23:37 THIS SUMMER... THE COCKS COLLIDE (it was a video) 21:23:38 !!!! 21:24:08 I haven't lost any! 21:24:10 I keep good track of my friends 21:24:59 then why is there a meduka there who did she eat 21:24:59 what about non-plush friends 21:25:02 that sure is, uh 21:25:03 organised 21:25:04 plush or minush 21:25:25 I'm only responsible for friends who live in my apartment <.<; 21:25:45 Fiora: How often do they double? 21:25:49 ummmm 21:25:56 And potential energy is mass times height times the gravitational constant 21:25:59 let's see. I had like half as many ~12-16 months ago ish? 21:26:07 * constant looks at Taneb 21:26:10 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 21:26:20 Sorry, trout 21:26:41 Fiora: OK, so let's say it's like Moore's law. 21:27:13 shachaf, it seems a little quicker than Moore's law 21:27:24 I think it's more like an S curve? 21:27:34 what is the optimal plushie count 21:27:55 I'm... not sure there is one in particular? 21:27:55 Bike: one more than whatever you have right now hth 21:27:56 Where the hell is Hitchin 21:28:20 well you said s curve 21:28:31 what's the asymptote! 21:28:46 well I'm mostly running out, I don't have many touhou ones I don't have I think 21:28:49 and most are like, permanently out of sto k 21:28:55 there's new ones but only like, every reitaisai 21:28:59 i see like three reimus 21:29:09 two! 21:29:10 can't you trade two of them for a more obscure touhou 21:29:23 could you fashion one into another 21:29:36 you can make custom plushies but it's a lot of sewing work and stuff 21:29:58 i'm thinking more... cosmetic surger 21:29:58 y 21:30:27 marisa -> maribel let's make it happen 21:31:09 I'd have to make new clothes and stuff <: 21:31:11 I remember something about http://www.geocities.jp/igarashi_lab/plushie/index-e.html from a SIGGRAPH. 21:32:00 I totally should have gotten all the madoka plushies when they were still in stock though 21:32:26 I'm away for an hour and people start talking about touhou-plushies, what is this? 21:32:47 Fiora happened 21:32:48 ##fiorateric 21:33:18 ##fiora is a thing. 21:33:19 nortti: are you somehow... surprised by #esoteric's drifting topic 21:33:20 fizzie: cute 21:33:23 haven't you been here forever 21:33:23 Wait, Fiora left! 21:33:48 well, I have 21:33:59 have you been touhou forever 21:34:00 Fiora: There are four people in ##fiora now! 21:34:05 nortti: https://room208.org/booru/data/9160f5fe9e4332617661b5d4f548dcd4.jpg um, I posted this 21:34:13 You wouldn't want us to talk about you behind your back, would you? 21:34:25 oh wow, that's alot 21:34:30 wow that doesn't sound like a creepy threat at all shachaf 21:34:37 shachaaaf 21:34:37 :D 21:34:47 ##fiora: now w/ fiora 21:34:49 Bike: :-( 21:34:59 it's about four years of accumulated plushies! they're good for filling the rest of a queen size bed 21:35:00 Fiora: no threat intended 21:35:02 wow 21:35:16 can you just make the bed out of plushies 21:35:27 why do you need a queen size bed! double beds are bourgeoisie 21:35:33 uh for all the plushies 21:35:34 hth 21:35:50 it was like $50 or $100 extra? and I like being able to roll around and sprawl out and stuff 21:35:57 and I kind of have a bad tendency to somehow steal all the blankets 21:36:03 from yourself 21:36:06 yes 21:36:11 Phantom_Hoover: i think you will find that big beds are the best, hth. 21:36:20 elliott knows his stuff 21:36:23 take that, yourself!! 21:36:23 it's true 21:36:45 I can basically lie down on it in any direction and fit 21:36:47 i slept in a tiny bunk bed since i was like 3 and you don't hear me complaining! 21:36:51 also it's hard to fit more than two people in a bed smaller than a queen 21:36:53 check your short privilege, fiora 21:36:54 Fiora: have you considered getting a cat hth 21:37:01 I have! I'm also allergic 21:37:04 but I stlil want a cat 21:37:12 get a pet you're not allergic to then 21:37:12 have you considered that life without a cat is no life at all 21:37:16 like a tarantula 21:37:19 or seven 21:37:20 hundred 21:37:21 I'm... not good with sipders 21:37:23 *spiders 21:37:23 though i think it's hard for more than two people to /sleep/ in the same bed, period 21:37:29 how about a snake 21:37:38 Bike: you tall people can like, get a king or something anyways 21:37:58 at school orientation there was one guy tall enough that he didn't fit in the dorm beds 21:38:01 p. tragic 21:38:03 kmc: Reading _The Door into Summer_ made me want to live with cats again. :-( 21:38:14 Fiora, I have a double bed but I curl up small 21:38:14 (he was like seven foot probably) 21:38:15 california king 21:38:27 kmc: are you going to become king of california 21:38:30 doubtful 21:38:34 what's the biggest bed in the universe #drugz 21:38:36 i'll vote for you for king hth 21:38:58 elliott: the universe is my bed hth 21:39:07 shachaf: that's not how king works 21:39:11 well sometimes but rarely 21:39:17 plushies are good though, I tend to cling to them in my sleep instead of the blankets 21:39:22 though sometimes Iflail and knock them onto the floor to 21:39:37 kmc: when i'm king i'll change how king works 21:39:44 I could probably quite comfortably sleep in this spinny office chair 21:39:48 im googling "huge bed" now #drugz 21:39:49 Fiora, do you have to put them back or you feel guilty 21:40:01 I don't actually leave them all on there all the time <.< that was just for the picture 21:40:07 these beds arent very huge 21:40:09 it's usually a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle messier 21:40:40 these are just fairly big beds 21:40:43 come ON google 21:40:47 what if you got a trampoline 21:40:50 i'm pretty sure i should make autonomous plushies 21:40:51 and put a sheet on it 21:40:55 so they put themselves back on the bed 21:41:00 other advantages: easy to film horror movies 21:41:01 Are there official definitions of what these "queen" and "king" sizes are? 21:41:05 so like, toy story? 21:41:07 fizzie: yes 21:41:14 fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bed_sizes#Standard_North_American_sizes 21:41:16 like toy story but soft 21:41:23 why is there furry porn and a picture of some socks. this is the worst image search ever 21:41:27 and possibly with jetpacks, because climbing is a pretty hard behavior. 21:41:28 im going to try "gigantic bed" instead 21:41:31 fizzie: also did you see my terrifying fact about RBMK reactors 21:41:35 and did you already know 21:41:46 terrifying RBMK fact: RBMK is real 21:41:46 oh it suggested "biggest bed in the world" lets go with that 21:41:46 Fiora: Aw, no ISO beds. 21:42:06 http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/07/article-1178094-04D70DB8000005DC-311_634x466.jpg now THATS what i call a big bed 21:42:07 Isn't there an ISO standard on how to make tea? 21:42:10 kmc: I did not see any fact about RBMK reactors at all. 21:42:20 elliott: but big enough?? imo, no. 21:42:21 elliott, that's what I call dailymail.co.uk 21:42:22 elliott, i don't think that's a proper matress 21:42:23 fizzie: there are four operational RBMK reactors about 230 km from Helsinki 21:42:32 is the daily mail good 21:42:39 no it is the opposite of good 21:43:02 Taneb: yes ISO 3103, although it's not designed to produce the most delicious tea, just a standard tea for comparative purposes 21:43:34 kmc: Are they in St. Petersburg or something? 21:43:56 kmc: are you serious 21:44:09 The method consists in extracting of soluble substances in dried tea leaf, containing in a porcelain or earthenware pot, by means of freshly boiling water, pouring of the liquor into a white porcelain or earthenware bowl, examination of the organoleptic properties of the infused leaf, and of the liquor with or without milk, or both. 21:44:14 oh my god 21:44:19 Daily Mail is the newspaper that says "life is getting worse! porn everywhere! immigrants everywhere stealing our jobs! cancer everywhere! foxes everywhere! too many badgers! not enough badgers! immigrants buying our factories and giving us jobs!" 21:44:29 The work was the winner of the parodic Ig Nobel Prize for Literature in 1999. 21:44:31 elliott: Unsurprisingly it's originally a British Standard. 21:44:32 fizzie: yeah nearby 21:45:02 immigrants stealing our badger cancer 21:45:07 @tell mnoqy attn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3103 21:45:07 Consider it noted. 21:45:15 http://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com/ 21:45:21 Anyway, goodnight! 21:45:24 elliott: http://www.keepbanderabeautiful.org/earth-hospital-bed-i.jpg 21:45:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:45:37 thats a pretty big bed 21:45:43 looks uncomfortable though. 21:46:07 "400 - Bad Request" that's a "bad", not "bed". (I don't know why happen.) 21:46:37 no finns allowed 21:46:42 alt. no speech recognisers 21:47:00 It seems to be so. 21:47:42 wait. i recognize speech. 21:47:54 you're a bicycle. 21:47:57 elliott: uh i'm a finn 21:48:00 elliott: checkmate 21:50:05 I believe our common bed widths here are 80, 90, 120, 160 and 180 cm. 21:50:56 ideally you would have a room that's just all bed 21:51:00 those numbers make more sense than ours <.< 21:51:04 i don't really see much of a use for non-bed areas of a room 21:51:13 but you need an area for your dresser, a hamper 21:51:16 an area to change clothes, a mirror 21:51:27 maybe a nightstand and alarm clock and stuff 21:51:29 these sound like less efficient uses of space than more bed 21:51:36 and like, a pathway to exit the room and maybe a bathroom 21:51:36 I guess you could make one of the walls out of mirror 21:51:45 Fiora: The 120 cm size is kind of a weird, I think, since it's really quite wide for one, but also quite narrow for two. (Still, it's not *that* wide.) 21:52:04 what if you just replaced the floor with a mattress. 21:52:09 Bike: this is my thinking yes 21:52:14 I wonder why the "twin" is the smallest size 21:52:23 Like, fitting two people on a twin sounds a little uncomfortable 21:52:46 -!- conehead has joined. 21:53:14 fitting two people in any bed is kind of tenuous imo 21:53:18 Also I recently saw the layouts of the apartments they're building nearby, and the smallest ones have bedrooms where the bed fills the entire width of the room; there are separate doors out from the bedroom (into the living room area) from both sides of the ends of the room, but you can't go around the bed without going to another room. 21:53:33 I could probably fit 2 or 3 of me in my bed 21:53:37 http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/27810/why-do-americans-call-single-beds-twin-beds 21:53:50 Fiora: but do you 21:53:54 Fiora: hey are you doing cloning now 21:54:09 the question is why you would want to 21:54:10 well that's kind of the thing I don't have a cloning machine 21:54:22 haven't you ever read cavlin + hobbes 21:54:22 can i have a Fiora clone 21:54:26 ==Bike 21:54:34 having a friend would be nice 21:54:43 Our current bed is 160 cm, except you could argue it's not, since in reality it's two 80 cm beds with an extra mattress (160 cm wide, ~5 cm thick) on top to get rid of the gap in the middle. 21:54:49 Fiora: you would be too shy to make friends with yourself 21:55:05 elliott: flanking maneuevers, sleeping in shifts to avoid being snuck up on 21:57:29 I'm not sure... maybe you're right, shachaf ... 21:58:16 i mean, it would be Fiora^2 shyness 21:59:35 at least I'd know a priori that she was just as much an emotional wreck as I am! 22:00:43 do you feel more comfortable around people who are emotional wrecks? 22:01:02 I don't really know 22:01:07 well, everybody's an emotional wreck, so that works out pretty conveniently. 22:01:31 Bike: ChanServ isn't an emotional wreck! 22:02:33 have you even talked to chanserv 22:02:40 chanserv isn't just a slab of meat 22:03:30 what is ChanServ a slab of 22:03:41 slabs of meat. 22:04:07 elliott: i failed to find a bed bigger than that one 22:04:40 hmm. I'd have someone to talk with assembly code and stuff about 22:05:32 if i had clones i'd specialize, so that we would have different things to talk about. 22:05:45 but still keep some genericism because doing one thing is boring. 22:05:46 yeah, that would be pretty nice 22:05:47 you can talk with us about that!! hth 22:05:58 like if I can have a fiora who knows all kinds of stuff in other topics and she can teach me lots of things 22:06:16 like neurobiolo-- oh, wait, I already have one of those :3 22:06:19 Bike: if you had a clone you would probably fight to the death "you're just that aggressive" 22:06:25 neurobiolo++ 22:07:13 Fiora: alas i'm not as cute or plushful. 22:07:24 also yeah i'd probably have at least like, nine clones learn german swordfighting. 22:07:26 pff you are pretty cute <.< 22:07:44 "but plushful, nah, i OWN you on that front motherfucker" 22:08:50 geez plushieful has nothing to do with -me- 22:09:29 then how do you explain allegations that your bed is filled with plush 22:09:37 checkmate 22:09:46 but like if I had a friend that friend coujld enjoy the plushies too 22:10:34 well plush is a universal enjoyedment 22:12:11 german swordfighting as opposed to 22:13:28 ...all the o fucking serious 22:13:30 er. 22:13:35 all the other kinds of swordfighting? 22:13:57 is there a specifically german kind though 22:14:09 germane swordfighting hth 22:14:16 @wn germane 22:14:17 *** "germane" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 22:14:17 germane 22:14:17 adj 1: relevant and appropriate; "he asks questions that are 22:14:17 germane and central to the issue" 22:14:29 hmm from now on we say "germane" instead of "on-topic" 22:14:31 germane, the methane analogue with germanium 22:14:46 Phantom_Hoover: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing 22:14:50 don't you read gunnerkrigg! 22:15:28 no 22:15:35 i gave up on webcomics 22:15:41 i think university is to blame 22:16:19 you're a shit 22:16:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:17:26 Higgledy Piggledy / Bicycle Bicycle / pushed his clone button and / heard it go Boink. // Now he can not only / neurobiologize / but also transmogrify; / quoth Bike: "oink oink". 22:18:24 bikes don't make that noise >: 22:18:50 they do when you transmogrify them 22:21:30 Ooh, fancy: a 7-plug extension cord, configured such that one hole is a "master", and when you turn off the device connected to that hole, it cuts off four other holes; the idea being that when you turn off your TV, the other related things like externally powered subwoofers and whatnot will also automatically power off. 22:21:53 nice. 22:22:05 I don't know what they'll invent next! 22:23:06 There is no Great Stagnation. 22:23:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:23:26 is Great Stagnation the thing where we close the patent office because everything's been invented 22:23:30 fizzie: at university they gave us a bunch of those because green! but most of us didn't have the right use case for them, so they were just a nuisance 22:24:08 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:24:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Stagnation 22:24:46 i haven't read this 22:25:14 kmc: My wife's mother was trying to give one away, due to lack of the right use case; it's very possible she got it from somewhere because green. 22:25:21 i just know "There is no Great Stagnation" (from his blog) as a cheeky way to praise a consumer tech gizmo of questionable utility 22:25:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugz i like how this exists 22:25:42 drugz are important 22:25:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drukqs 22:25:58 they're one of the ishooz of the youf 22:26:12 that reminds me of http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139464/j-bradford-delong/the-second-great-depression which i read today because literally needing pills just isn't depressing enough 22:26:21 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 22:27:10 "James has stated that the title is not related to drugs, and is 'just a word [he] made up.'" that's what they always say. 22:27:56 yeah right 22:28:00 lucy in the sky with diamonds 22:28:27 what happens if you accidentally make up drugz 22:29:09 you go to prizon 22:33:41 Can you get Verizon in prizon? 22:33:53 only on the horizon 22:34:16 kmc: i think i'm addicted to drugz 22:34:18 the word 22:34:33 welp time for an intervention 22:34:37 Sunrise over the verizon. (The joke is, Sunrise is an operator too.) 22:35:14 intervenzion 22:44:49 over the verizon radar 22:50:21 thanks User:Thylacine222 23:24:45 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:26:17 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:29:29 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:29:39 -!- Koen_ has joined. 23:29:46 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:31:16 -!- tertu has joined. 23:34:27 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:37:22 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:40:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:24 -!- tertu has joined. 23:42:38 a stitch in time saves nine 23:42:41 Etymology[edit] 23:42:41 From the practice of mending a small tear in cloth before it becomes a larger one. 23:42:44 so that's what that means 23:43:31 i always thought it was related to _A Wrinkle in Time_?????????? 23:44:38 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:44:54 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:16 -!- tertu has joined.