00:05:22 anyway apparently there are crypto startups i didn't know this <-- presumably they're good at hiding? 00:05:49 deep 00:11:16 lool 00:11:20 Bike: example? 00:11:30 of what 00:11:35 crypto startups/ 00:13:41 https://crypto.cat/ 00:15:06 came up in http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/12/4422480/is-prism-good-news-for-cryptographers 00:16:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:19:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:20:52 `list 00:20:53 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SgeoBot SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 00:20:55 oops 00:20:57 `slist 00:20:58 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:20:59 Supposedly. 00:21:21 At least, the notifier I made in another room went off... 00:21:21 hey, how did I end up in the `list? 00:21:32 not that I mind, but I'm pretty sure I didn't trigger it intentionally 00:21:35 `cat bin/list 00:21:36 ​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 00:21:42 `pastelogs ais523.*`list 00:21:44 ah right, it's historical 00:21:57 I triggered an early in-testing version of the `list 00:21:58 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17695 00:22:15 the proto-list 00:22:23 what happens in `list, stays in `list 00:22:50 anyway, now SgeoBot has triggered the `list, it will be there eternally 00:23:00 btw, I liked the old race condition version 00:23:06 because it was harder to figure out, and trollier 00:23:06 sgeo is a bot now? 00:23:18 aren't we all 00:23:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:23:33 the new version fits in better with the idea behind it, at least 00:24:02 the latest pages hasn't been updated yet. just the most recent page, with an arrow 00:24:09 kmc: i bought _The Power Broker_ 00:24:09 kmc, yes, Bike uncovered me in #bike 00:24:15 hey what's the way to get the file size of a directory recursively on linux 00:24:23 i can never remember it and whether it involves du 00:24:31 What does the file size of a directory mean? 00:24:32 might be some time before i start/finish reading it, though 00:24:34 it's du with a couple of options 00:24:36 Go to last page, click link from there 00:24:41 For Homestuck update 00:24:56 i usually do du -hs dirname 00:25:00 du -bcs dirname 00:25:05 that works 00:25:25 you also might want -l if you want to count each copy of a hard link, rather than the single file that's linked 00:25:33 which depends on what you're trying to do 00:25:40 it's spelled du -sh you unpatriotic scum of the earth 00:25:48 thanks 00:25:48 i bet you write rm -fr too 00:25:49 shachaf: if you use -h rather than -b, then it counts the disk space used 00:25:52 not the size of all the files in it 00:25:52 -sh is not even in alphabetical order. 00:26:05 so very small files will be counted as more than the number of bytes in them 00:26:08 this is not what Bike asked for 00:27:10 * kmc hands out cyanide pills <-- and this is how humanity will finally evolve the ability not to click ominous links hth 00:27:49 oerjan: and use a browser that can't be XSSed attacked through plain text files? 00:28:49 now that's going a bit far. 00:29:13 huh, I wasn't expecting an update 00:29:15 thank you SgeoBot 00:29:36 I suppose it has technically been months 00:31:03 years 00:31:05 over .001 years!! 00:31:24 more importantly there are jerkcityhd posts http://24.media.tumblr.com/aef6f8b854fb820eb634748be7289463/tumblr_mo57efs8CY1snfhwio1_1280.png 00:31:30 moving to SF feels vaguely self-destructive given how annoyed I am by web/mobile app startup culture 00:31:36 but i can't really escape it by being physically far away, either 00:31:42 so i might as well be where my friends are 00:32:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:32:31 look at it this way: there's good weed 00:33:09 http://jerkcityhd.tumblr.com/image/51435557806 and good dicks 00:33:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:33:42 haha 00:33:47 i should get a shower curtain that looks like macsbug 00:34:02 caliborn's narration is amazing 00:34:27 it truly is 00:34:49 "DID SHE DRAW HERSELF?? I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S POSSIBLE. CONSIDERING SHE IS FICTIONAL. AS WELL AS A GIRL." 00:34:58 boogle vacantly 00:35:05 "IT TURNS OUT THE MALE CAN LEAVE AFTER ALL. RELATIVELY UNHINDERED. BASICALLY CONTRADICTING THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE STORY." is the best 00:35:23 i was wondering about the typo route/root but i guess it was intentional or at least fits 00:35:27 boogle down 00:36:46 yeah that one's pretty good 00:59:00 oh, there we go, feed updated 00:59:11 kmc: i was going to ask if you heard about the private silly valley buses 00:59:17 but i think i heard about them from your twitter SO 00:59:25 was it silly valley, i think it was 01:00:40 Bike: spigot is "super kawaii" in that first one, as they say 01:00:57 yes that is what they say 01:01:25 I Know the People 01:07:14 Did you try to ==> out of the flash early? 01:07:16 You should 01:11:27 -!- itsy has left. 01:18:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:41:49 yeah it's pretty good 02:00:27 elliott: which? the company shuttles run by Google etc, or the private subscription bus lines in SF? 02:00:50 imo there's nothing wrong with the rich paying for luxury public transit, if the basic govt public transit is adequate 02:00:53 but it isn't really 02:01:04 and the city is too incompetent to e.g. tax the luxury services and fund the public ones 02:01:07 kmc: i meant the company ones yeah 02:01:31 america desperately needs health care reform to reduce the amount of useless snail mail i receive 02:07:17 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:22 @bf ++++++++[->++++++++<]>. 02:08:22 @ 02:10:11 @bf ,[.,]!Does this work? 02:10:11 Done. 02:10:25 'parently not. 02:15:33 @bf ,[.,]!++++++++++. 02:15:33 Done. 02:19:35 kmc: btw am planning to do god's work re: haskell FAQ 02:21:00 "Quotes of the Week 02:21:00 shachaf: getLine :: IO String contains a String in the same way /bin/ls contains a list of files." 02:21:09 That is not a quote that first occurred within the past week 02:23:45 elliott: good (what though) 02:24:02 strings /bin/ls | grep ^/ 02:26:37 kmc: well, you know @faq... 02:26:55 @faq 02:26:55 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 02:27:00 lol great 02:27:17 @bf input!,[.,] 02:27:17 Done. 02:27:18 @faq Can Haskell fix @faq without outside intervention? 02:27:18 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 02:27:37 Bike: http://sprunge.us/WUOh 02:27:51 my god. 02:27:58 are they serious? 02:28:05 well some of those obviously aren't 02:28:17 this is terrible 02:28:43 "can I use HASKELL to solve problem from ARTIFICAL INTELIGENCE, like DEPTH TREE SEARCH ,or A*, its hardest than same algorithn in C++ with C++ Standart Library data structures, like FIFO/LIFO/LISTs etc. ?" snort 02:28:57 Bike: well you see the thing is someone asks a question in #haskell 02:29:06 yeah i know how it goes 02:29:06 and then no matter what it is if it involves asking whether you can do something, potentially in haskell 02:29:11 you put @faq in front of it 02:29:15 and you're a master of comedy 02:29:17 oh so it's 02:29:19 a "meme" 02:29:24 well 02:29:37 it was originally because people would ask things like "can haskell do [incredibly basic thing that any real language can do]" 02:29:44 yeah i'm sure 02:29:48 but now it's just... kind of annoying 02:29:48 "does haskell have i/o" 02:29:50 i assume you're going to have @faq link to kmc's first epistle to the nerds 02:29:53 right 02:29:57 that's the idea 02:30:12 and probably you'll get called a nazi for killing the joke or whatever 02:30:12 so now people will try to mock questions and inadvertantly link something that might even answer them!!! 02:30:15 yes 02:30:21 i love ruining things, goddamn 02:30:40 What's this epistle? 02:30:46 @where faq 02:30:46 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 02:32:22 Oh. From what you called it, I thought it was going to be some ... thingy 02:32:31 Thingy? 02:32:39 "epistle" is just oldspeak for "letter". 02:33:36 Some generic thoughts on geekiness or somethign 02:34:10 that's kmc's First Testament 02:36:20 you ever shred so much stuff that the shredder overheats? 02:36:26 no 02:36:36 well i have, hth 02:36:39 (just now) 02:36:40 oh no 02:36:42 (but also before) 02:36:42 did you die 02:36:44 no 02:36:47 still alive 02:36:47 rip kmc 02:36:51 rip 02:36:52 i'll come to your funeral 02:37:10 "we will bury you" -- shachaf 02:38:19 "we will bury them" -- soviet rhino heavy tank in red alert 2, being ordered to attack 02:38:51 are you a tank y/n 02:39:16 hey remember red alert 2 02:39:23 that was a good computer game 02:40:02 it was 02:40:06 ./win goto 39 02:40:08 oops 02:40:36 did you know you can just say /win 39 02:40:37 hth 02:40:45 yes 02:40:46 but I forget 02:40:57 also you can press alt then press the 39 key 02:41:01 shachaf.win++ 02:41:08 kmc: huh 02:41:18 I was telling elliott about an irssi feature... 02:41:27 oh elliott.win++ 02:41:35 shachaf.win-- 02:41:47 the MIT UAV club flew their UAV into the river... 02:41:52 Controlled Flight Into Terrain 02:42:10 uncontrollable air vehicle 02:42:48 I love the phrase "controlled flight into terrain" 02:43:08 TERRAAAAAIN 02:43:26 works better in #cslounge-trains 02:43:35 if you like trains you should join that channel hth 02:44:49 http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/ppppppowerup 02:45:02 that's the soundtrack to VVVVVV 02:45:03 it's good 02:45:12 let me guess, drums 02:45:12 the game as well 02:45:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:45:29 not as such, but possibly an 8bit synth approximation thereof 02:45:32 the game got a bit memorizey 02:45:38 the game is about dying isn't it 02:45:40 kmc, no, it's remixed versions of the soundtrack to VVVVVV 02:45:42 mostly 02:45:44 SgeoBot: oh 02:46:08 But the actual soundtrack is awesome too 02:46:32 should i go to the "they might be giants performance" on friday in sf 02:47:48 shachaf, you should probably go listen to PPPPPP first 02:48:55 I love soundtracks. 02:49:31 Original Soundtracks 1 is the best soundtrack hth 02:50:59 Bike: i was just thinking about that album the other day wtf (i haven't even heard it) 02:51:43 hey i think i have that sound track as part of humble blah blah don't i 02:52:34 I know VVVVVV itself was in a Humble Bundle 02:53:28 third 02:53:48 elliott: have you seen Ghost in the Shell 02:53:50 Bike: i don't recall memorization in that game 02:54:01 it was mostly precise timing for jumps 02:54:11 Bike: nope 02:54:16 i normally hate jumping puzzles but VVVVVV did a really good job eliminating the delay before you can try again 02:54:29 kmc: braid did the best job of that 02:54:38 that's really what I hate, 30 seconds of tedious walking around until you can get to the jump and fail again 02:54:38 I remember seeing a bit of a let's play linked on youtube where someone spent like 30+ minutes on one 10 second segment 02:54:41 shachaf: true 02:54:46 braid is a good game also 02:54:51 braid <3 02:54:58 Fiora: the joke is, i know exactly which segment 02:55:01 imo seeing the braid mechanic not as a central puzzle mechanic but just a convenient continuous undo thing would be nice 02:55:03 kmc: it got pretty rote for me 02:55:04 Bike: "doing things the hard way"? 02:55:09 Fiora: yep 02:55:11 shachaf: prince of persia 02:55:18 Sorta 02:55:27 i forget if i ever actually got that one 02:55:33 What about veni vedi veci... oh same thing I guess 02:55:43 Fiora: I've only played one Prince of Persia game. It was a long time ago. It didn't have that. 02:55:52 But I hear there's more than one game so maybe others do. 02:55:54 in prince of persia when you fell or something it let you rewind I think? 02:55:58 like that was one of the things it did 02:56:03 i like how i have 2834923984234 humble bundles 02:56:05 and have played like 3 of the games 02:56:14 conspicuous consumption hth 02:56:40 the one i played looked a lot like http://toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/130503.jpeg 02:56:47 thx google images 02:56:50 ... oh 02:56:53 I was thinking Sands of Time 02:57:04 it was on a cd of 100 shareware games 02:57:08 all i had was the demo 02:57:21 maybe you should play a Prince of Persia game tha'ts less bad. 02:57:21 man i sure loved that cd 02:57:28 it had all these games!! 02:57:37 like jill of the jungle. who remembers jill of the jungle. i do 02:57:38 elliott: anyway the point is, listen to "One Minute Warning" 02:58:05 i like the braid guy's essays more than his games. 02:58:08 Bike: i'll need a one minute warning first 8) :D : D :D: D :LD:L:LD: L:D :K <3k0 i3-0 it0-hroph;lg ,bv. 02:58:12 zjksdxzlsekhfa5w87veyisudgkxclx\' 02:58:13 c]|Z:"Z?[ 02:58:16 has he done anything since braid? 02:58:35 i know he was planning something 02:58:40 but who knows with these artsy types 02:58:43 I know he's doing a next-gen console thing on PS4 02:58:57 i think i mostly liked braid for the art because i like the artist 02:58:59 SgeoBot: this was nice until the drum-alikes started :'( 02:59:11 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Witness_(2013_video_game) 02:59:13 maybe i'm just too fly-like to do puzzley games 02:59:31 shachaf, PPPPPP or the remix? 02:59:32 braid was definitely one of those games where like, I could beat my head for 30 minutes on a puzzle 02:59:36 and then look up the answer on youtubue 02:59:38 Because I cannot vouch for the quality of the remixes 02:59:40 and in retrospect wow that was so obvious 02:59:41 2013 more like 20never 02:59:44 Just for the quality of PPPPPP 02:59:44 wait 2013 isn't over yet 02:59:47 i mixed it up with 2012 03:00:16 SgeoBot: I listened to whatever you linked in here. 03:00:20 «Blow says he started to "check out" from his parents as early as elementary school. His mother was an ex-nun who constantly reminded her son about the imminent coming of Jesus and would later disown Blow's older sister for coming out as a lesbian in the mid-80s. Blow's father worked all day as a defense contractor and would come home to be alone in his den, where children were not allowed.» wow 03:00:21 http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/ppppppowerup 03:00:52 shachaf, ok then. This is the original: http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/pppppp-the-vvvvvv-soundtrack 03:01:16 Bike: nice 03:01:21 game developers. 03:01:40 i didn't even know "ex-nun" was a thing you could be 03:01:41 SgeoBot: Still has drumalikes. :-( 03:01:56 did http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/engels/frc/index.html just stop existing all of a sudden :( 03:02:06 Koen_, there's an archive 03:02:15 is that about engels 03:02:20 Tada: http://sir-toby.com/nomic-archives/frc/ 03:02:28 thank you mister bot 03:02:40 dammit it's some nerd shit isn't it 03:02:44 Bike: this is good i should listen to the album (i make a point of hating U2 so this is not easy to admit) 03:03:05 Bike, it branched off a game of nomic 03:03:34 SgeoBot: i had to turn it off because it felt like it was beating my brain in until i would die 03:03:34 elliott: it's ok i hate them too. Eno also worked on it though and I don't hate him. 03:03:55 good rationalization, imo 03:04:36 eno also worked with coldplay 03:04:39 "im just sayin" 03:04:57 i kinda like coldplay "sorry" 03:05:18 i don't know what coldplay is "sorry" 03:05:27 a band with drums 03:05:32 i knew it 03:05:44 it's not paranoia when they're really out to get you hth 03:05:44 you just said you didn't! 03:05:54 shachaf: btw prior warning the they might be giants performance will involve drums hth 03:06:06 shachaf, are you the master? 03:06:11 elliott: sometimes they don't......sometimes they do i don't know 03:06:20 my sister is going today in seattle 03:28:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:07 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 03:41:56 -!- Koen_ has left. 04:20:31 shredding done, now using the shredder as a footrest 04:21:35 coldplay is mediocre but for the most part not actively offensive 04:21:43 what did you shred 04:21:46 papers 04:21:54 oh 04:21:59 good shredding material 04:22:01 don't get your feet in the shredder hth 04:22:12 "Al-Yafi was a well-known and prolific contributor to top-tier Al-Qaida forums with over 30,000 postings." 04:22:17 I,I mediocre jelly 04:22:30 btw the start-up sound of the OLPC XO-1 is the first four notes of "Beautiful Day" by U2 04:22:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH7GOupMDrU 04:22:47 it's hard to tell with the internal speaker because it picks out weird harmonics 04:22:56 but it's super obvious if you plug in headphones 04:23:39 Someone just offered to pay my admission fee to the upcoming Rebol conference if I came 04:23:56 do you have to fly 04:24:05 foot status: unshredded 04:24:05 > hi (hi 5 (+) 3) (*) (hi 4 (+) 4) -- infix without infix! 04:24:08 64 04:24:26 let hi x f y = f x y -- ? 04:24:28 that's not evry infix 04:24:30 *very 04:24:31 hi = flip flip 04:24:35 Bike, it's in a different country... 04:24:35 you don't even get the associativityi ejrirtproperty 04:24:37 :t flip flip 04:24:37 b -> (a -> b -> c) -> a -> c 04:24:40 (So yes.) 04:24:41 so, yes. 04:24:42 is it a good country 04:24:44 efb 04:24:51 pop pop 04:24:55 kmc: i'm going to need a twitter account for your foot status asap plz thx hth 04:24:58 elliott: did you have a stroke 04:24:59 pop pop watching motherfuckers drop 04:25:07 @miuaf_foot_ebooks 04:25:19 kmc: yes 04:25:29 kmc: i'm just not built for this world and its complete sentences 04:25:30 elliott: might want to get that cehcked out 04:25:36 get some of that NHS 04:25:44 would follow 04:25:51 +5, Troll 04:26:00 still waiting for zzo38_ebooks 04:26:26 main is usually a foot 04:26:41 ok you all need to help me out here 04:26:54 i need to understand the sentence: "Al-Jaza'iri was a jihadi web forum users who was well known and well-respected in the online extremist community." 04:27:02 what is a jihadist forum like. give me ideas 04:27:12 how can one be respected on an internet it doesn't make sense 04:27:24 I respect you 04:27:26 you're respected 04:27:37 ergo Bike is a jihadist 04:27:43 oh 04:28:04 gonna have to come to terms with that Bike 04:28:14 death to the west? 04:28:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:28:18 shit i'll have to grow a beard 04:28:21 that's gonna suck 04:28:23 i'm amused because obviously the jihadi web forums will have the same stupid web forum drama as every other web forum 04:28:29 and i'm just amused thinking about this 04:28:34 you're friends with a woman, I don't think they allow that 04:28:56 that's true, a lot of them are engineering students. 04:29:13 kmc: "itt: infidels defending their terrible alcohol decisions" 04:29:17 why would you engineer a student 04:29:23 kmc: arguments over how large the burning america flag image signatures should be allowed to be 04:29:33 p. sure this is exactly what jihadi web forums must be like 04:29:35 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 04:29:51 i just got back from the tunisian revolt AmA #yolo 04:30:38 actually yeah now that you mention it none of the listed dead are women 04:30:43 al-nusra needs to get its act together imo 04:30:52 jihadi forum where they have some nutter going on about how 9/11 was an inside job but the angle is mostly that it's really disappointing that al qaida couldn't pull it off themselves 04:31:13 i'm definitely 100% terrorism expert, trust me 04:31:30 the people who wrote this report i'm reading presumably read these forums regularly 04:31:33 i wonder if i can like, ask 04:31:39 "jihadist 4chan report please" 04:33:05 yo Bike why am i not asleep yet; checkmate 04:33:24 http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2013/06/upcoming-revelations-speculations.html am i allowed to be annoyed at an article for being baseless speculation when it has 'speculation' in the title 04:33:41 elliott: you're a fucking heathen hth 04:33:56 kmc: haha this is bad 04:35:34 Microsoft bought Skype for $8 billion dollars. It doesn't seem to make sense. Now that we see Skype and Microsoft prominently mentioned in the PRISM documents, we may find out that this entire thing was a plot by the NSA. 04:35:59 "nsa made microsoft buy skype" best conspiracy theory 04:36:36 Four billion wordwide population - all living - have a Computer God Containment Policy Brain Bank Brain, a real brain, in the Brain Bank Cities on the far side of the moon we never see. 04:36:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 04:37:01 http://jihadology.net/2010/10/20/an%E1%B9%A3ar-al-mujahidin-arabic-forum-adds-a-section-for-women/ this is going well. 04:37:05 For the record, I have not yet received an NSL (National Security Letter). Crypto guy Matt Blaze irregularly points this out on twitter as a neat trick. An NSL forbids a person from disclosing that they received the NSL. Thus, while you can't confirm you've received one, you can simply stop posting that you haven't. 04:37:10 man i don't fucking believe this works 04:37:30 because only nerds would do that, for one 04:37:30 rsync.net do it too, post a "we haven't had to blah blah blah" thing regularly 04:37:53 is there any chance whatsoever that ceasing to publish such notices wouldn't be considered an admission that it happened in court 04:38:07 http://jihadology.net/2010/10/26/arabic-language-forum-ash-shamukh-al-islamiyyah-announced-the-creation-of-the-shamukh-college-of-islamic-sciences/ Any student that does not attend a lecture three times or more without having permission from the college will be terminated from the program. 04:38:23 seems like a good way to get a free one way flight to eastern europe 04:38:35 Moreover, al-Falluja administrators urged members and visitors on the forums “to take caution and wariness in corresponding via private messages…[and] to use Asrar al-Mujahideen [the Mujahideen Secrets] software and to not avoid this matter.” The aforementioned software, developed by al-Ekhlaas Forum, is a coded-software that enables forum members to communicate directly with Al-Qaida’s offshoot in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). 04:39:08 http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/audio/Gangster%20Computer%20God%20Worldwide%20Secret%20Containment%20Policy.mp3 04:39:29 elliott: nerds are the saddest lawyers. 04:39:41 kmc: my weakness: filenames like that 04:39:50 wait is this that guy 04:39:56 Yeah. 04:41:06 this is relaxing 04:41:10 i feel reassured 04:41:16 http://www.theonion.com/articles/it-sure-has-been-a-while-since-the-tonight-show-di,31267/ 04:41:20 kmc: holy fuck 04:41:23 that erratasec blog 04:41:24 -!- aloril has joined. 04:41:25 People are asking if Edward Snowden (the NSA leaker) is libertarian. My answer is "probably". 04:41:28 We libertarians have a sort of "gaydar", we can spot fellow libertarians even when they say things that are completely neutral and non-political. Back in the day, I was in the "libertarian-closet", and tried to hide my wacky feelings for limited government. I tried to talk and act like everyone else. However, other libertarians could tell my true self. I never understood how that was possible. 04:41:34 Now that I've gotten older, I've discovered that I've got libradar, too, and can often recognize my fellow wackos. I can't say consciously what makes me feel that Snowden is libertarian, but I get that vibe from him. 04:41:38 pppdsfdpogshjfgkdk.fdg;'lsfk 04:41:45 ok well he probably is actually a libertarian 04:41:47 but: that's great 04:41:59 We libertarians have a sort of "gaydar" 04:43:05 * kmc ponders libertarianism 04:43:35 kmc more like kmponder 04:43:57 hayek is kind of interesting, libertarian-wise 04:44:00 why don't i hear more libertarians trying to loudly differentiate themselves from the privilege-denying fuckwit contingent 04:44:11 is it because i don't listen to anyone who identifies as a libertarian 04:44:13 i have a book by a market socialist whose thesis advisor was Hayek 04:44:21 i feel that this may have been sort of awkward? 04:44:56 kmc: well among the obvious answers, how about that they actually believe that 2-axis politics crap 04:45:05 if you believe in limited government but you also donate 50% of your income to help the less fortunate, that might be respectable? 04:45:16 it's not like current governments do a great job of helping poor people 04:45:37 i work in a private enterprise that feeds poor people 04:45:39 synergising recent topics of: NSA, they might be giants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z32-eLOoAUU 04:45:41 where's the help ron paul?? 04:45:46 hehe 04:46:03 (btw because i'm still thinking about it they're gonna cut billions from SNAP and aaaaah) 04:46:14 :/ 04:46:30 elliott: Left & Right is the old tried & effective tactic of " Hegalian Dialectic. " either one you chose-the government wins. btw- in ancient greek or hebrew, Government means mind control. governing the mind,when you study Truth Etymology. you may wish to Check out max Igan's website TheCrowHosue,his podcasts on yt are under ThecrowHouse as well, if your interested in solutions- he lists MANY. & shares the hidden information that is ... 04:46:36 ... going on -that the powers that be,hide from the masses. 04:46:45 v. well written & persuasive 04:46:46 yes i forgot to note the other bonus of clicking that link in that the comments are now predictably nuts 04:47:19 http://www.thenation.com/blog/174753/sword-drops-food-stamps, specifically 04:47:21 i am not excite 04:47:23 Truth Etymology 04:47:41 is that some sovereign citizen shit 04:47:48 05:44:56 kmc: well among the obvious answers, how about that they actually believe that 2-axis politics crap 04:47:51 05:46:30 elliott: Left & Right is the old tried & effective tactic of " Hegalian Dialectic. " 04:47:57 Bike: consistency 04:48:33 elliott: you said you were asleep and now you're not asleep!! 04:48:48 when did i say i was asleep 04:48:53 anyway this is especially annoying because SNAP is one of the least wasteful government programs that exist they have graphs for this 04:48:56 elliott: i dunno like a week ago 04:49:45 QUANTUM-LANGUAGE-PARSE-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR 04:49:50 * Bike lastlog's elliott.*sleep, discovers just how often you fucking ask 04:49:53 (it's a lot) 04:50:04 20:37 < elliott> i am going to sleep 04:50:14 how long is your fuckin lastlog 04:50:30 Bike: should i sleep 04:50:31 so i can set it to be that long 04:50:45 13:18 < elliott> i sleep now. i can only pray gregor's voice survives the brutal night 04:51:04 this was in april. that's barely two months ago!! 04:51:25 how does your lastlog go back to fucking april 04:51:29 22:33 < elliott> um i dont sleep Bike you have a history of lack of history 04:51:39 that was march btw 04:51:48 come on what do i have to fix in my irssi 04:52:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:52:41 sleep 04:53:20 it's not even 6 yet 04:53:37 it's not even my dick yet 04:54:15 suddenly, dicks 04:54:35 when will it be your dick Bike 04:54:47 never. i've taken a vow. 04:54:57 Ah 04:57:01 it's really annoying how early it gets light 04:57:14 i prefer it to the early darkness in the winter 04:57:22 you should get black-out shades 04:57:39 kmc: agree re: early darkness 04:57:40 in college I slept under my desk in a kind of sleeping pod / coffin with thick curtains and wood walls 04:57:50 this was good if my roomates were playing loud music or having sex etc 04:57:55 well, the curtains are open right now because i didn't bother to shut them :V 04:58:04 try being less lazy 04:58:04 which i am sure correlates with me sleeping worse 04:58:10 kmc: i think that is the hardest thing 04:58:38 anyway the perfect season is one where it gets bright late and dark late, imo someone should invent it 04:59:04 that's called 'shifting your sleep schedule' 04:59:30 no 04:59:32 you don't understand 04:59:36 it's everyone else that should shift 04:59:45 `quote peple 04:59:46 116) Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple 04:59:48 http://25.media.tumblr.com/a97d40d2ad1395c4d197e5724c80121a/tumblr_mob8t8kQuB1r8se0eo1_1280.jpg pictured: kmc 04:59:52 ^ me 04:59:56 that was re: 116 not re: Bike 04:59:59 you're the bird 05:00:00 kmc: I know someone who did that kind of thing too, moved their mattress from above their desk to under their desk 05:00:07 I'd probably be claustrophobic but it sounds really nice 05:00:09 yeah it was reasonably popular 05:00:13 you get more storage space too 05:00:29 our dorm was the quiet dorm, and it had a thing people jokingly called the intercom 05:00:34 which was that sound travelled really really well 05:00:35 great now i'm going to be thinking about this when i look at dorms on monday 05:00:40 feel like this would be a good time to make a monqy sleeping on the floor joke but unfortunately he isn't here 05:00:40 so like if you made a lot of noise people would come breathe down your neck 05:00:42 so it was usually super quiet 05:00:46 what is the sleepabilitiy of this desk 05:00:52 haha 05:01:24 Fiora: i think that would make me paranoid to make any sound whatsoever 05:01:28 we also had some people reorganize rooms by function 05:01:34 a quiet room with a bunch of beds, a socializing room 05:01:44 well people mainly just didn't talk much in their rooms 05:01:46 Epsilon Theta at MIT takes this to the extreme 05:01:56 collectivize the dorms 05:01:59 they all sleep in a big room in the attic which is quiet and dark 24/7 05:02:04 wow 05:02:27 ok i'm organizing pdfs; what folder should i put a document about jihadist nerds dying in syria in 05:02:28 imo, communism 05:02:33 ~open poll~ 05:02:47 Bike: wow good horse_ebooks, is that a recent one 05:02:53 i "lost track" of horse_ebooks 05:02:59 i have no idea 05:03:25 well i assume the folders are Chaos, Discord, Confusion, Bureaucracy, Aftermath in which case I would say Chaos 05:03:27 geez, everyone in the dorm sleeping together? 05:03:40 hm ok 05:03:49 https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/344933381060038656 https://twitter.com/Horse_ebooks/status/344949349907849216 still goin wrong i see 05:03:52 uh 05:03:53 by wrong i mean strong 05:03:53 * Bike moves to Psychology (burn) 05:04:02 well typed horse ebooks do not go wrong 05:04:23 kmc: i think the badly-typed ones are usually funnier 05:04:54 "There was always a danger of side effects . Sometimes the side effects could be serious. Danger of" 05:05:05 haskell_ebooks 05:05:07 oh no 05:05:42 todo: add a markov chain generator to lambdabot 05:05:51 i really need to get mendeley or something ugh 05:06:00 FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLOING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLDING FOLOING FOLOING BOXBOARDS B0X60ARDS BOXBOARDS BOXBOARDS 05:06:01 i have so much crap in a "Computer Engineering" folder 05:06:36 Bike: yo if you figure out a good thing to dump pdfs into let me know 05:06:40 i forget why i decided not to try mendeley 05:06:49 i think anyone reading the titles of all these papers would conclude that i was compulsive 05:07:00 my friend who proofreads / typesets papers says that mendeley kind of sucks but she doesn't know a better alternative 05:07:06 fuck 05:07:09 elliott: write one in haskell 05:07:19 my requirements: metadata, it fills in the metadata for me from a citeseerx link or something, tagging, full body text search 05:07:28 yeah that sounds pretty nice 05:07:29 that's pretty much it 05:07:59 i suddenly forget if citeseerx covers more than CS 05:08:10 also it should have a magic button to turn awful .ps files without selectable text into .pdfs with selectable text 05:08:14 maybe i'm thinking of ACM 05:08:25 god i have so many pdfs without selectable text 05:08:31 or worse, badly selectable text 05:08:33 imo war crime 05:08:33 citeseerx does all sciences I think? 05:08:42 even the dismal science? 05:08:43 yeah looks like it 05:08:43 Bike: i like the ones where it's badly auto-OCR'd behidn the scenes 05:08:46 so you copy it and it's just fuck 05:08:48 YES fuck that 05:09:16 sometimes it's just like, fuck you i'll type up this whole fucking 19th century book on bugs for you if it means i can paste without getting insane garbage 05:09:33 itt nerdy as shit 05:10:22 what's anything written before the 60s 05:10:29 "not my field" 05:10:42 ok 60s is wrong 05:10:51 and you're going to say babbage or something 05:10:54 and i'm oignoi tjoeri jdgk sgnfkjslztps`df 05:10:55 [zpcX}|VLkz;fsmknorhtJGKPSDVX|:CL/ko 05:10:56 lagoepF :|SZdlfkpGN]rgaw 05:10:57 ezsd pfdo]l[ \"DX>?C Bd 05:10:58 szg\;XVC">?,ml 05:11:01 de=sw3za]`[; 05:11:03 `l 05:11:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: l: not found 05:11:06 ]df[\hg;'N? 05:11:07 I actually tried to read Babbage's Bridgewater treatise once. 05:11:14 (it was boring) 05:11:25 I have sometimes got the shitty OCR problem with like 60s papers on GC or shit like that 05:11:35 does anyone mind if i flood the channel with say 5-10 lines 05:11:39 of lambdabot command listing 05:11:42 didn't you already do that 05:11:43 oh 05:11:43 it would be emotionally helpful 05:11:49 well you're asleep so 05:11:51 i say go for it 05:11:52 great 05:11:53 lambdabot: @ 05:11:53 Maybe you meant: . 1337 ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s bf bid botsnack bouvier brain bug check choice-add choose cide clear-messages clear-topic compose define dequeue-topic 05:11:54 devils dice dict-help djinn djinn-add djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune free freshname gazetteer 05:11:54 get-shapr get-topic ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage haskellers help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma karma+ karma- 05:11:54 karma-all keal kind l33t learn leave leet let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply messages messages-loud messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 05:11:54 palomer part paste ping pinky pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pop-topic pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices push- 05:11:55 [3 @more lines] 05:11:57 @more 05:11:57 topic queue-topic quit quote rc reconnect remember repoint roll run sequence set-topic shift-topic shootout show slap smack spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker 05:11:59 time todo todo-add todo-delete type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless unshift-topic uptime url v vera version vote what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 05:12:01 yow 05:12:04 yow 05:12:06 yow 05:12:08 @shootout 05:12:08 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all 05:12:13 really glad yow gets its own line 05:12:14 oh i was thinking shooting 05:12:33 @localtime Bike 05:12:35 Local time for Bike is Wed Jun 12 22:12:34 2013 05:12:36 @help localtime-reply 05:12:36 time . Print a user's local time. User's client must support ctcp pings. 05:12:38 hm 05:12:42 oh no 05:12:42 @localtime-reply sdjfsdjf 05:12:45 what is this 05:12:50 @localtime elliott 05:12:50 what is what 05:12:53 localtime-reply 05:12:56 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:12:50 2013 05:13:00 it just CTCP TIMEs you 05:13:18 ah hm 05:13:21 yes i know that 05:13:21 but 05:13:23 @localtime elliott 05:13:25 @localtime-reply q 05:13:30 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:13:23 2013 05:13:33 hmm 05:13:39 @localtime elliott 05:13:39 @localtime-reply q 05:13:43 Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 13 06:13:39 2013 05:13:43 wait is this like asyncronous. 05:13:47 yeah 05:13:53 that makes no fucking sense i love it 05:13:55 it uh 05:13:58 maps the ctcp reply to a privmsg 05:14:01 with @localtime-reply in front of it 05:14:03 fucking disgusting 05:14:07 @localtime-reply elliott 05:14:10 i should 05:14:11 fix that 05:14:14 i don't get it oh no 05:14:33 i wonder why i have this paper on tobacco viruses 05:15:06 they are hella studied viruses aren't they 05:15:13 "Evolution is the process by which the genetic structure of the population of an organism changes with time." well i guess whoever wrote this was really fucking desperate to fill out the abstract 05:15:17 yeah, the first in fact 05:15:25 whatshername who invented DNA studied them, too! it's cool 05:15:59 Filler is the process by which the abstract of a paper is progressively padded with redundant information which the intended audience of the paper is already aware of. 05:16:09 yeah. yeah, basically 05:16:10 weird how many important plants are in Solanaceae 05:16:17 wasn't something like that in SIGBOVIK 05:16:23 tomatos and potatoes and tobacco and DEADLY NIGHTSHADE 05:16:49 well you know what they say, large genera have diverse speciation 05:16:53 i'm reminded of irl tomacco 05:16:55 for some reason 05:17:01 do they say that 05:17:01 tom...acco? 05:17:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Products_produced_from_The_Simpsons#Tomacco 05:17:16 oh right 05:17:18 fantastic article title 05:17:38 kmc: it's in origin of species actually, it's pretty cool. darwin's like "yo without evolution how do you explain that big genera have more varieties" and the creationists were like "uhhhhhh" 05:18:17 "E-I-E-I-(Annoyed Grunt)" heh i forgot that was the title 05:19:13 that reminds me also that the genus Clostridium is responsible for botulism, tetanus, terrifying antibiotic-resistant hospital diarrhea disease, and salt-rising bread 05:19:27 elliott: probably not helping tomaccoism: the virus is actually called Tobamovirus 05:19:33 and gas gangrene 05:19:42 is that gangrene you get from gasoline 05:19:42 and 'pulpy kidney disease' in sheep 05:19:47 no, good guess tho 05:19:50 ok uh that sounds worse than the rest 05:19:59 Bike: barack tobamo 05:19:59 if you're a sheep.............. 05:20:01 i don't... i don't want pulpy kidneys 05:20:21 yo 05:20:22 i don't think you want gas gangrene or turbodiarrhea either 05:20:23 should i sleep 05:20:24 [that latin word i forget that means spread of disease between animal species] kmc!! 05:20:31 elliott: yes or i'll infect you with MRSA 05:20:42 i remember MRSA 05:20:43 good times 05:20:53 it still exists hth 05:20:57 memory resident software application 05:20:58 i also remember foot and mouth 05:20:59 good times 05:21:13 what about mad cow 05:21:33 i think that was "before my time"? 05:21:33 not sure 05:21:34 they have totally drug-resistant TB in india now 05:21:35 only true 90s kids remember rinderpest 05:21:55 cool, eradicated 05:22:07 it's "the other eradicated disease" yeah 05:22:27 i read http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312427654 recently 05:22:29 i think next on the list is some kind of worm i forget 05:22:29 good book 05:22:51 kind of a shame because Dracunculiasis is a pretty boss name 05:22:56 he talks about the campaign to eradicate polio and how they are always very close but it's almost impossible to finish the job 05:23:09 ugh that just reminds me of reports from pakistan 05:23:26 imo eradicate colds and headaches next twh 05:23:28 if a kid gets polio in an area where it's uncommon, the CDC sends like thousands of people there overnight to vaccinate everyone 05:23:42 colds kill half a million people every year but aren't on the list 05:23:44 such is disease 05:23:56 yeah well cars kill several million people every year 05:24:00 Bike: no no 05:24:02 i mean for selfish reasons 05:24:05 yes i know 05:24:09 i mean, i've never had rinderpest, personally. 05:24:18 I don't think you're a cow 05:24:19 eradicate disease in elliotts 05:24:27 Fiora: you'd be surprised! 05:24:37 the monomorphism restriction is a good way to avoid polio 05:24:39 elliott is a cow? 05:24:46 * elliott is a perfectly spherical cow 05:24:49 yes. 05:24:56 moo 05:25:03 apt-get moo 05:25:04 it's cool how i'd never heard of two of the next three diseases to be eliminated and i'll never get them 05:25:11 copumpkin: hey kmc is infringing on your trademark 05:25:15 wow yaws looks... really nasty, though 05:25:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yaws_01.jpg warning: ew 05:25:28 how ew are we talking 05:25:34 i'm about to sleep so i don't need awful mental images 05:25:44 not as ew as that picture of the guy with the necrotic leg 05:25:49 just lumpy 05:27:20 oh now i'm pissed about malaria vaccination again help 05:27:42 what about it 05:27:48 is that a thing? 05:27:59 er, measles i meant 05:28:05 oh 05:28:08 why are you pissed? 05:28:10 malaria is just bad all by itself 05:28:21 coppro: do you know about "the controversy" 05:28:27 oh was shachaf's statement an extremly oblique pun on "MMR"? 05:28:27 assume I don't 05:28:42 kmc: no, just "poly-o" 05:28:57 well some people think measles vaccines cause autism and so don't get them and then get measles 05:29:00 the end 05:29:22 anyway did you know there's such a thing as infectious blindness (in humans). elliott: do you need this to sleep 05:29:26 hey kmc why do books have forewords that are added years after the book is written and are only interesting to people who have already read the book 05:29:34 why not just put it at the end of the book 05:29:37 Bike: yes, elliott needs infectious blindness to sleep 05:29:48 shachaf: those suck 05:30:08 especially for real old novels where they explain the whole plot. 05:30:15 more like boreword amirite 05:31:58 maybe they should be postwords? 05:32:19 my copy of On the Road has a few of those. 05:32:33 is it better than The Road? 05:32:35 because that book is shit 05:33:09 "Why are we on a road?" "Because we have to be." "Okay." "Okay." "Okay." 05:33:14 there, I have summarized the entire book 05:33:20 waiting for godot's road 05:33:36 i haven't read The Road but I stopped reading On the Road because I got bored of him going on about random sex with run-on sentences 05:33:49 that doesn't sound quite as bad 05:33:51 how do you even have sex with a sentence 05:34:01 i dunno but he managed 05:34:06 (my copy is pre-editing. it shows) 05:34:31 fucking tweakers 05:34:38 hey Bike did you read three men in a boat 05:35:02 that's a book about a road.......made of water 05:35:03 maybe 05:35:04 also it's goo 05:35:08 d 05:35:20 that reminds me that the Solaris film is apparently freely watchable 05:35:25 except I don't understand Russian. 05:35:37 kmc can confirm that _Three Men in a Boat_ is good. 05:35:41 yep 05:35:46 confirmed 05:35:51 @google three men in a boat 05:35:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Men_in_a_Boat 05:35:51 Title: Three Men in a Boat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 05:36:18 hm, looks good. 05:36:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 05:36:45 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/308-h.htm 05:37:25 oh, that's convenient. 05:37:33 guess i'll read it once i sort these pdfs. 05:37:37 thx 05:45:48 -!- itsy has joined. 05:48:03 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:01:22 imo http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/write_some_fucking_code.html is a bit unfair to the whole idea of reading about things you're learning about 06:02:16 yeah 06:02:29 ha, ha, sexually oriented jokes 06:02:34 that too 06:03:24 i thought monad tutorials were a thing that's so stale that every meta-commentary on meta-commentaries about them is already just as stale, etc 06:03:42 i wonder if this person has seen the burrito article 06:03:43 oh well 06:04:43 kmc: that reminds me should i watch _Brazil_ 06:04:51 should i put this paper about the grandmother hypothesis under Bio/ or Anthro/ 06:05:02 yes shachaf 06:05:04 i guess both the writers are anthropologists good enough 06:05:07 will it be depressing 06:05:11 yes 06:05:37 wow why do i have a chinual page 06:08:54 kmc: so when are you going to move to ca 06:08:58 before jul 1? 06:09:02 yeah 06:09:05 probably a few days before 06:09:11 ok 06:09:13 talking to some people now about maybe living at their house 06:09:28 mozilla offered me a really sweet deal including relocation expenses 06:09:53 nice. 06:09:56 i still don't understand why they have so much money..... 06:10:09 who, mozilla? 06:10:11 yes 06:10:25 i guess when 20% of the world uses your browser, and a browser is one of the most important programs, you can make a lot of money from it 06:10:37 I thought you said they were paid off by Google. 06:10:41 right 06:10:50 wow, i have a pdf reverse engineering final fantasy seven. 06:10:51 google has a lot more money hth 06:10:52 i don't understand intuitively how they can make so much from that 06:11:02 but I haven't like sat down and tried to crunch the numbers 06:11:27 well intuitively speaking, google has basically infinite money 06:11:32 also they don't have a mandate to pay dividends or grow in an aggressive shortsighted way 06:11:43 oh, mozilla isn't publically traded? 06:11:49 no, they are a non-profit foundation 06:11:54 wack 06:12:14 well technically Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit that owns the taxable Mozilla Corporation 06:12:25 it's a kind of odd structure 06:12:27 hey if you work at mozilla in sf maybe you'll meet $REDACTED 06:12:31 but not as sketchy as IKEA! 06:12:34 whosat 06:12:38 never mind i shouldn't talk about it 06:12:48 well that's not ominous at all 06:12:52 i remember someone tried to draw the corporate ownership chart at my finance job and it was wack 06:12:58 like every trading strategy had its own LLC 06:13:05 that were owned in some kind of complicated tree 06:13:09 jesus 06:13:10 Why? 06:13:14 and then my actual employer was just contracting services to them 06:13:23 that's some Accelerando shit 06:13:24 except my actual ACTUAL employer was a HR services provider 06:13:29 yeah exactly 06:13:52 i read Accelerando a few months before I started looking for jobs out of college, and I have to say that I took the HFT job in large part because of that book 06:13:52 np-complete problems of the future: find a hamiltonian cycle of your employer 06:13:56 :D :D 06:13:57 haha 06:14:05 i presume they are independent LLCs so that each strategy can go bankrupt on its own 06:14:15 that's, i don't know what that is. 06:14:24 some kind of bizarre evolutionary strategy 06:14:46 it's like if i had nine independent hands and each one was wired a different way, and if i lost a hand well whatever it probably sucked anyway 06:14:52 also e.g. some parts of the company-cluster were certified broker-dealers, which gets you certain rights and privileges in the markets 06:15:03 and some of the strategies had to be extra super legally separate so they got offices with doors. 06:15:16 were there people in the offices 06:15:33 a few 06:15:43 were the people publically traded 06:15:50 no afaik 06:16:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:16:11 Bike: can i buy shares of Bike 06:16:21 also some of the traders retained ownership of their trading code and had brought it from other firms 06:16:25 i bet somewhere there's a company where different strategies have their own LLCs and compete over employees in a private market 06:16:31 yes 06:16:47 shachaf: i bud, sorry 06:16:49 we sort of did that 06:16:53 nice 06:17:04 the 'general' pool of programmers was (at least at one point) seen mainly as a tool for recruiting people into strategies 06:17:07 should i keep these pdfs from a space school about Future Technology 06:17:14 and the idea that they would actually produce generally useful code was maybe secondary 06:17:32 heh 06:17:53 i have a paper on classical conditioning being sub-turing... 06:18:03 also the sysadmin group was its own little fiefdom and if you wanted good computers or whatever, you needed to have a lot of trade revenue so you could promise them big bonuses 06:18:16 that's uh, weird 06:18:23 yet they had none of the transparency or SLAs or such you would expect from an actual internal market 06:18:25 kmc: do all finance companies work this way 06:18:29 i think they were moving in that direction when I left 06:18:30 shachaf: no 06:18:43 shachaf: there's a spectrum between "unified company" and "shell for many independent strategies" 06:18:43 it's always sounded like yours was kind of dysfunctional 06:18:47 yeah it was 06:18:55 how was it dysfunctional? 06:18:58 at some firms, everyone can see all the code, and all the money is pooled deterministically 06:19:02 well see above, for one 06:19:15 also the sysadmin group was just bad at their jobs, but they couldn't be fired because Personal Connections 06:19:17 ok well i don't even know what "SLA" means, maybe i shouldn't ask 06:19:23 service level agreement 06:19:35 still no idea :P 06:19:39 like "we will provide 99.9% uptime or else you get $bignum" 06:20:00 a contract? 06:20:01 if you were actually buying trading infrastructure services from an external company, you would want one 06:20:04 or sometimes "we will provide 99.9% uptime or else you get $thedifferenceinhostingcostswhichisbasicallynothing" 06:20:07 but the internal sysadmin group didn't provide them 06:20:33 basically I'm saying they tried to sell their services internally, but in an opaque and unaccountable way 06:20:37 right 06:20:40 ALSO still waiting for an answer on the space thing 06:20:52 they were absurdly miserly about small things like RAM upgrades 06:20:56 Bike: delete all pdfs hth 06:20:57 for production high frequency trading machines 06:21:08 what about the paper about inter-universal teichmuller theory, which i will never, ever understand 06:21:10 and I have to think it wasn't just about the miniscule cost but about making pepole beg and bargain 06:21:13 also what about space 06:21:46 i have some pdfs from a mildly shady space technology oriented school, about terraforming and impact in African nations and such 06:21:58 not sure if i believe them well enough to keep them so why not ask people who really don't give a damn (that's you) 06:23:06 hm don't want to read these atm 06:24:12 "On 20 December 2011 Mozilla announced that the contract was once again renewed for at least three years to November 2014, at three times the amount previously paid, or nearly US$300 million annually" 06:24:21 from google? 06:24:23 yes 06:24:29 for making Google the default search engine in Firefox 06:24:42 that's an incredible payoff for just that 06:24:45 "due to competing interest from both Yahoo and Microsoft" 06:25:03 it is a staggering amount of money, but I don't really have a handle on how much Google makes from those searches 06:25:07 presumably they think it's a good deal 06:25:27 MSFT has loads of money and if FF switched to Bing, that would be a huge blow 06:25:56 so I guess my salary is effectively a byproduct of a Google / MSFT bidding war, at least until 2014 06:26:09 i can't really find this any weirder or less reputable than the way other tech companies get funded 06:26:20 I wonder why MSFT hasn't sued for antitrust yet 06:26:31 sued Google for bundling, or such? 06:26:40 bit of pot kettle there, don't you think ;) 06:26:40 cartels, or something 06:26:45 oh, definitely 06:26:47 see: patents 06:26:58 eh i don't think it's a cartel if Mozilla auctioned it off to the highest bidder 06:27:17 the pot calls the kettle black, and the chicken comes by and gets covered in soot 06:27:23 i'm not much of a lawyer though 06:27:28 before yelling at the pot and kettle about how black they are 06:27:34 kmc: i thought you were my attorney 06:27:36 that reminds me, did you know there's a word for the dual situation of a monopoly, where there's only one buyer? 06:27:38 then someone turns out the lights 06:27:40 think that's pretty cool 06:27:44 Bike: monopsony 06:27:48 yes 06:28:09 cool word 06:28:51 why_i_dont_have_a_girlfriend.pdf 06:28:52 kmc: your country's department of defence has a monopsony 06:28:56 yeah was about to say 06:28:58 and still manages to waste shit-tons of money 06:29:08 though not quite, because we export hella weapons, but that's also approved by the govt 06:29:24 i like the bit where the navy was the only one buying aircraft carriers and there's also only one corporation that can build aircraft carriers 06:29:26 they waste shit-tons of money because of regulatory capture I guess 06:29:29 free market in action right there 06:29:38 kmc: you also have like 300k people with top secret clearance 06:29:41 not so top really 06:29:43 it's not really 'waste', it's deliberately being funneled to for-profit companies 06:29:48 i'm sure there's a lot of actual waste too 06:30:00 just dump the money into the reactors 06:30:17 "Fair use for Tsar Bomba... The photograph belongs to Russian department of Atomic Energy Minatom. Introducing the picture on our server does not interfere with their ability to develop and market new nuclear devices" 06:30:25 man, you know what the world needs? 06:30:34 more cool ships? 06:30:37 a device which tells you which wiki is better: the one on wikia or the one that isn't 06:30:41 since everything has exactly two wikis 06:30:42 coppro: well there are higher clearance levels 06:30:46 coppro: but you're not allowed to know about them 06:31:00 yeah that would be pretty nice coppro 06:31:05 let's get elliott to invent it 06:31:11 doors in the rudders of big ships 06:31:15 coppro: The one on Wikia is worse by definition. hth 06:33:02 also the US classification system has secret/top secret and all but also has this weird sort of tag system 06:33:02 shachaf: well there's cosmic top secret 06:33:03 and gamma 06:33:19 particularly there are Special Interest Groups which you sometimes need classification to know about 06:33:20 shachaf: that's far from true 06:33:26 SIGBOVIK 06:33:37 CIA special interest group on bovikation 06:33:38 Bike: this is reasonably common 06:33:41 SIGKILL 06:33:46 I imagine that the US needs them more than other countries 06:33:55 but classified info is normally need-to-know 06:34:09 bovakistan 06:34:09 having clearance is necessary but far from sufficient 06:34:17 i just have no idea about other countries because i haven't looked 06:34:24 -!- nooga_ has joined. 06:34:30 US classification I know about because it's on wikileaks docs etc 06:34:33 the tagging system is, I assume, just a way of implementing 06:34:40 yeah 06:34:52 stuff like NOFORN = even if a foreign national has clearance don't show 'em 06:34:53 et 06:34:54 c 06:35:05 oh, that 06:35:10 NOFORN would be different, I think 06:35:23 since a foreign national even with the need to know couldn't be given NOFORN info 06:35:47 they do sometimes make exceptions i think but yeah 06:35:56 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:36:03 would i be allowed to see NOFORN things 06:36:25 shachaf: yeah they're all on wikileaks 06:36:32 'allowed' 06:36:41 allowed by wikileaks hth 06:38:30 i don't get classification at all. there was that pakistani guy who like invented nukes for them and then they decided you're not the right kind of muslim so fuck off and bam clearance gone? governments are crazy imo 06:39:41 i guess they did that with oppenheimer too. except w/o the muslim bit 06:40:07 -!- oleg has joined. 06:40:32 -!- oleg has changed nick to Guest17482. 06:41:07 did you know oppenheimer tried to poison his professor 06:41:16 not surprised 06:41:48 who hasn't, really 06:42:20 Sigh, why do people *still* spread monad misinformation? Just plain lies. 06:42:34 Maybe we should have a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to talk about the topic. 06:42:36 shachaf: you should classify monads 06:42:40 And then pass no one. 06:42:58 monads are not a crook 06:43:13 Bike: how are the pdfs going 06:43:24 are they misinformationing in #haskell 06:43:25 when I am president of the united states 06:43:29 I will classify the lunch menu 06:43:34 when i am king you will be first against the wall 06:43:47 so that anyone who tries to eat lunch in the white house without clearance is in violation of classification 06:43:52 that's treason, citizen 06:43:55 shachaf: moved a few dozen 06:44:12 i think i'm too sleepy to read this paper on optimizing away Y combinators, yes 06:44:14 kmc: no on hn comments on that article 06:44:18 which i looked up for some reason 06:44:30 that was a bad idea 06:44:31 is that reason because you are a masochist 06:44:36 could there be any other reason 06:44:58 um 06:45:12 this paper is on kolmogorov complexity in presburger arithmetic 06:45:17 what the fuck am i even doing with this 06:45:18 i'm a particular variety of masochist, sure 06:45:20 who am i 06:45:55 "Taming Wildcards in Java's Type System" ok strongly considering the deleting all pdfs option 06:46:07 elliott and i have a sort of sadism-masochism relationship 06:46:24 but i think he started it 06:47:13 "Hobbes, Rawls, Nussbaum, Buchmann, and All Seven of the Virtues" 06:47:15 kmc: this thread is p. great 06:47:23 a question: "what is a monad, really? 06:47:37 a miserable little pile of morphisms 06:47:40 an answer that talks about bind taking the value out of the monad and wrapping it in another monad 06:47:41 what is monad, baby don't hurt me 06:47:46 graaah 06:47:48 an answer that talks about composition of adjoint functors 06:48:04 15:32 < kmc> you can take the kmc out of the #haskell but you can never take the #haskell out of the kmc 06:48:06 this is the ideal thread of bad explanations 06:48:26 sucks how unintuitive "a thing that follows these rules" is an explanation apparently 06:49:24 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noodles 06:49:28 god yes 06:49:39 pbr.pdf has surprisingly little to do with hipsters 06:50:01 `run echo "let's focus on the real question: should i eat more nooodles" | rnooodl 06:50:02 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noooodles 06:50:07 `run echo "let's focus on the real question: should i eat more nooodles" | rnooodl 06:50:09 let's focus on the real question: should i eat more noooooooodles 06:50:13 that's more like it 06:50:27 i like that PBR's claim to have won a Blue Ribbon is highly dubious 06:50:40 like the ice cream shop down the street that says «"The World's Best Ice Cream" -- New York Times» on the window 06:50:48 toscanini's? 06:50:50 yes 06:50:56 i was there! 06:50:58 i ate ice cream 06:51:02 was it the wordl's best 06:51:11 the burnt caramel ice cream was not to my taste 06:51:20 the burnt:caramel ratio was too high 06:51:22 shachaf will just have to eat every oether ice cream in the world to be sure 06:51:31 do they have good ice cream in sf 06:51:48 "The Analogy Between Physics and Topology" it's way too midnight for this shit 06:51:57 i was at that place with the liquid nitrogen ice cream 06:51:58 i went to the Three Twins location in Lower Haight but then it burned down :/ 06:52:01 prepared in front of your very eyes 06:52:03 i think elliott linked me this one actually. fuck you, elliott. read your fucking hott 06:52:25 Bike: oh are you looking for papers to read 06:52:27 i have some 06:52:31 no for fuck's sake 06:52:32 Notice: Undefined index: user in include() (line 272 of /home/content/48/8614948/html/sites/all/themes/fusion/fusion_starter/node--scoop-shop.tpl.php). 06:52:37 do they have good frozen yogurt in downtown mountain view 06:52:47 it was ok 06:52:49 colorblindness in cuttlefish 06:52:52 more about the toppings, imo 06:52:53 this will be relevant to my life 06:52:59 Bike: they can see polarization can't they 06:53:15 yeah probably 06:53:28 also can't they mimick colors? can't be totally color blind 06:53:37 this paper is about literally exactly that 06:53:43 well, good 06:53:50 more comments: "learning Haskell verges on learning mathematical concepts at times and learning monads is definitely one of those times" 06:54:01 lol 06:54:02 what's the tl;dr 06:54:24 of the paper? i refer you to my "oh god it's midnight why am i doing this (dong this)" 06:54:32 lemme look again 06:55:08 shachaf: wow you're saying programming is related to math? incredible 06:55:29 i guess their answer is "yep definitely colorblind but that camo thing sure is weird" 06:55:33 @quote programm.*math 06:55:34 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:34 good science 06:55:36 they suggest it might have to do with perception of contrast 06:55:39 @quote programm.*math 06:55:40 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:42 hmm 06:55:43 @quote programm.*math 06:55:43 kmc says: Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:55:56 @quote programming.*math 06:55:56 kmc says: programming is inherently mathematical. furthermore, the connection between haskell and maths is overblown by people who don't understand the language 06:56:02 kmc stop it with the quotes 06:56:29 kmquotable 06:56:41 @quote math.*programm 06:56:41 TRWBW says: category theory gives math a bad name. sorta like functional programming does with computer science. 06:56:49 oh TRWBW 06:56:56 is TRWBW still around in ##math 06:57:08 hey i have a paper on Blue Gene simulations of cats, awesome 06:57:30 kmc: I like how that quote is in the quote database twice. 06:57:42 how can you tell 06:57:55 actually don't answer that it can be a mystery 06:57:55 shachaf: today I told people that you need monads to do IO the same way you need ZFC set theory to do 2+2 06:58:09 Bike: There's a double-spaced and single-spaced version. 06:58:15 huh that's not such a bad analogy really 06:58:28 what's New Foundations in this analogy 06:58:36 @forget kmc Haskell isn't really designed by mathematicians. it's designed by people who programmers would consider to be mathematicians and mathematicians would consider to be programmers 06:58:36 Done. 06:58:41 thanks Bike 06:58:43 kmc: I saw. 06:58:51 Reasonably analogy for that argument. 06:59:11 tomorrow's headlines: haskell requires programmers to know zfc to write hello world 06:59:16 yes 06:59:26 "[world's best] really [...] not [...] bad analogy" -- Bike 06:59:26 well sorry actually 06:59:39 i said you need *category theory* for IO the same way etc 06:59:49 Right. 07:00:00 you need to understand the stdlib thing named "Monad" but that's not such a big deal 07:00:01 no one retweeted you 07:00:03 :( 07:00:09 you could do it 07:00:15 i wish i used tweeter so i could retwit you 07:00:39 i also complained about #haskell 07:00:43 my client doesn't show replies i guess 07:00:44 I saw. 07:00:44 you probably saw that too 07:00:47 Maybe I should send your quote in to HWN. 07:00:56 nobody retwerped that either 07:00:58 which one 07:01:07 https://twitter.com/hwnquotes 07:01:18 imo retweet your own tweet and stick @HWNQuotes in front of it 07:01:21 to be honest i'm not sure i'd want to see this argument though 07:01:21 that'll show 'em 07:02:06 btw this is the thread i was talking about if anyone else has masochistic tendencies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5872002 07:02:09 arguing about programming languages is like negative my things 07:02:36 arguing about programming languages is like using similes 07:02:57 oh shit i have a homotopy type theory paper help 07:03:06 Bike: rm -f -f -f hth 07:03:33 site-name_-_title_-_mod-yyyy-mod-mm-mod-dd.pdf 07:03:34 hott seems "p. cool actually" 07:03:57 kmc: Did I ever ask you about that thing I was trying to figure out with inequality? 07:04:06 Type inequality. 07:04:14 no 07:04:34 ok finishing this tomorrow thank's for playing 07:04:46 tia 07:05:02 In Haskell10 + RankNTypes, something like "forall p. p Char -> p Bool" is completely independent, as far as I can tell. 07:05:24 I.e. foo :: forall p. p Char -> p Bool and bar :: (forall p. p Char -> p Bool) -> Void are both unprovable (without ⊥ etc.) 07:05:55 GADTs and TypeFamilies both let you prove bar, but those are huge and slightly dubious extensions. Is there a smaller extension that'll let you prove bar? 07:06:16 ((forall p. p A -> p B) is Leibniz type equality between A and B.) 07:07:24 *nod* 07:08:01 The way GADTs give it to you is more or less by omitting a warning when a GADT pattern match would lead to a unification error. 07:08:30 It seems, well, reasonable, but an axiom-via-not-printing-a-warning seems kind of suspicious. I'd like to see it stated explicitly somehow. 07:09:32 Did you get edwardkomments about affine types? 07:09:40 no 07:10:08 ok, I wrote the appropriate GADT 07:10:23 data Foo t where FooChar :: Foo Char; FooBool :: Void -> Foo Bool 07:10:32 eq :: (forall p. p Char -> p Bool) -> Void; eq f = case f FooChar of FooBool v -> v 07:10:35 is that what you had in mind? 07:10:44 Right. That's how you do it with GADTs. 07:10:54 and where do you think it should warn? 07:11:27 I don't necessarily think it should warn -- it's just that this "axiom" is implemented via not warning about the fact that you're not matching FooChar. 07:11:28 btw i decided to have beer instead of more noodles 07:11:33 you fool 07:11:44 I'd like to see it stated explicitly. 07:11:49 why would you match FooChar? the type doesn't match 07:11:55 Right. 07:12:06 OK, imagine you tried to emulate GADTs with Leibniz equality. 07:12:08 you want something like «case f FooChar of FooBool v -> v; FooChar ()» 07:12:16 like an absurd pattern in Agda? 07:12:22 btw I may have misremembered the syntax 07:12:26 Right, but you need a proof that it's absurd. 07:12:27 Bike: i regret nothing 07:12:31 And that proof is Is Char Bool -> Void 07:12:35 shachaf: ah, and... yeah 07:12:35 And you can't write that without GADTs. 07:12:54 newtype Is a b = Is (forall p. p a -> p b) 07:12:57 agda has that notion of type equality built in though, right? 07:13:07 data Foo t = FooChar (Is t Char) | FooBool (Is t Bool) Void 07:13:17 That doesn't give you the same power as the GADT. 07:13:18 this is your GADTs-via-Leibniz? 07:13:20 Yes. 07:13:22 ok 07:13:26 this is a funny conversation to see after "you don't need math for haskell" :P 07:13:30 haha 07:13:38 but it isn't Haskell!!!!!! it's Haskell + RankNTypes + GADTs 07:13:41 ;P 07:13:50 totes diff 07:13:58 it's not really "needed" either... 07:14:05 it's needed if you want to do specific cool things 07:14:37 "you need math to use pencil and paper! look at those people writing those complicated equations there!" 07:14:46 you need fancy stuff if you want a far higher degree of static checking than other languages 07:14:53 if you want only moderately higher degree, you don't 07:15:11 the ":P" meant that wasn't supposed to be a serious criticism of either thing, just saying 07:15:14 moderately higher degree... is that like a master's 07:15:14 i know 07:15:21 i'm obliged to respnod though 07:15:25 nerd 07:15:41 kmc: Anyway, in HoTT you actually *do* get equality of isomorphic types. 07:15:56 I.e. you can write foo :: Is Word8 Int8 or something like that. 07:15:59 -!- Guest17482 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:16:21 So HoTT is incompatible with GADTs in GHC, because it always assumes inequality. 07:17:05 explain the last bit? 07:17:20 I mean that it assumes Char will never be equal to Bool. 07:17:28 In this case it really never will, because they're different sizes. 07:17:43 But if you had an isomorphism then you might be able to provide actual equality. 07:17:52 (NB: I don't actually understand HoTT.) 07:18:09 hm 07:18:12 really 07:18:26 By the way, GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving is also related to this. It uses unsafeCoerce as evidence that a newtype and its underlying type are equal. 07:18:31 so in HoTT i can do (Word8 -> Int8) -> (Int8 -> Word8) -> Is Word8 Int8 ? 07:18:42 except I also prove it's a legit isomorphism, somehow? 07:18:47 Well, you'd probably want an actual isomorphism, not just a pair of functions. 07:18:48 Yes. 07:18:52 I think that's the general idea. 07:19:26 So I think GND is actually safe in Haskell10 + RankNTypes. 07:19:37 It's only when you add GADTs or TypeFamilies that it breaks. 07:19:41 interesting 07:19:51 not surprising though 07:20:09 my intuition is that GADTs and TFs let you use types less "parametrically" than is generally assumed in Haskell 07:20:13 and that's the source of a lot of trouble 07:20:19 Right. 07:20:49 http://joyoftypes.blogspot.com/2012/08/generalizednewtypederiving-is.html says he couldn't figure out a way to do it with just Leibniz equality. But I think it's actually not possible, because there's something missing there. 07:21:04 GADTs with weaker Leibniz-style equality would probably be less useful. 07:22:36 Anyway what I'd like is to see the extra power that GADTs give you stated explicitly somehow. 07:22:50 But talking about inequality is annoying. 07:24:06 a tweet i am not drunk enough to send: "Haskell sucks because it requires you to learn some math to do things that are simply impossible in other languages" 07:24:33 the solution is more beer hth 07:24:38 out of beer 07:24:40 switching to cider 07:25:36 kmc: you would get so many replies about turing completeness 07:25:40 it would be great 07:25:46 :3 07:25:51 i would 07:25:58 uh kmc i can just use Perl to write a slime mold emulator that runs haskell 07:27:24 programming languages is a HCI problem 07:27:28 here's another tweet i won't send 07:27:39 instead i will just drink more and watch Mad Men 07:27:47 good decision 07:32:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:37:57 my alcohol tolerance is pretty ridiculous 07:38:35 kmc has a ∞-tolerance policy 07:38:39 :D 07:38:44 i'm a big white dude, you see 07:38:56 also i drink often 07:39:35 should i drink often 07:40:02 eh 07:40:27 should i drink occasionally 07:40:31 probably 07:40:54 i often have a few drinks, but I occasionally get properly drunk 07:40:59 see above re: tolerance 07:42:31 writing drm code must be unpleasant 07:42:34 alcohol is overrated because it's the one widely accepted legal fun drug 07:42:37 fighting a battle you know you'll lose 07:42:45 but it's still worth doing from time to time 07:43:15 shachaf: eh, or you see it like any other security measure, as something to keep out attackers of a certain skill level for a certain amount of time 07:43:28 Possibly. 07:43:37 but I agree that DRM on content is pretty hopeless, because it takes only one person to put it on BitTorrent 07:43:50 I don't understand why Hulu bothers with DRM on some shows, when those same shows can be recorded over the air 07:44:05 things like locking down video game consoles to signed software are less hopeless 07:44:15 it might stand for 6-18 months and that's enough for a meaningful advantage 07:44:23 same with anti-reverse-engineering tech 07:44:39 if you can make your competitors spend a few million or delay them by a few months, that can be a big deal 07:44:39 I suppose some people explicitly have it as their goal to keep the DRM uncracked for a few weeks or some period of time in which the majority of sales are usually made. 07:46:42 * kmc is picking through a big bin of diamond-cut shredder shit and is having fun identifying the source documents 07:46:56 ... why 07:47:09 oops here's a diamond that contains a full 1D barcode 07:47:14 coppro: boredom 07:47:35 it's stuff i shredded 07:48:40 one thing I miss from college is easy access to a fireplace for document destruction 07:50:13 in an hour of need any space can serve as a fireplace 07:50:23 s/spac/plac/ 07:51:02 that is true 07:51:19 but urban areas have these busybodies who show up and try to put out fires 07:51:31 v. rude 07:51:47 and if you do it on purpose you get banned 07:51:49 the ultimate ban 07:51:51 the ur-ban 07:52:59 maybe i should be banned from this channel 07:53:16 i heard kmc was moving to sf because it was an herban area 07:53:37 no don't banchaf :'( 07:53:40 shachaf: yes 07:53:47 not the only reason but... a reason 07:54:51 somebody in SF was complaining about how they were "flying to a place where drugs are illegal" 07:55:07 are you going to get a what'sitcalled medical thing 07:55:28 probably 07:55:58 then i can visit dispensaries and get all pretentious about different strains of weed 07:56:17 or have it delivered to you 07:56:23 true 07:56:28 p. soon Bike can do the same thing of course 07:57:24 cool 08:00:23 is Bike actually moving to CA 08:01:03 no 08:01:06 i meant the whole WA thing 08:07:24 oh 08:07:25 sure 08:07:32 won't even need a 'green card' though 08:09:34 right 08:11:00 are drugz as good as drugz jokes 08:11:49 hard to compare 08:12:33 what about drugz jokes......on drugz 08:13:06 need to be in san jose at 11 tomorrow 08:18:58 why 08:19:34 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:58 '--sparc2.2: If an array was created on a SPARC machine with a 2.2 Linux kernel patched with RAID support, the superblock will have been created incorrectly, or at least incompatibly with 2.4 and later kernels. Using the --sparc2.2 flag with --examine will fix the superblock before displaying it.' i love computers 08:22:32 meeting people 08:22:38 hey kmc you should read `olist it's good 08:22:39 what kind of people 08:25:49 san jose people 08:25:56 hey someone unfollowed me on twitter 08:26:01 oh no 08:26:07 shachaf do you have cool friends 08:26:26 gasp it was @darinmorrison 08:27:37 hmm how do i tell 08:29:37 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-utils/2010-10/msg00002.html thanks gnu time 08:30:56 what's two (binary) orders of magnitude between friends 08:31:09 or 12? whatever 08:31:31 this cider allegedly pairs with shrimps and cheeses 08:31:43 don't like shrimps :( 08:32:06 oh i think that icon means 'seafood generally' 08:32:47 you don't have to eat seafood just because you drink the cider 08:32:54 not speaking of shrimps did you see http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2004/08/consider_the_lobster?printable=true 08:33:45 have not read it yet 08:33:58 oh did i link it before 08:34:43 "... One visitor would argue that the celebration involves a whole lot more." is this article about drugs? 08:36:17 no but i know of it generally 08:36:25 one of DFW's essay collections is named after this essay 08:48:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:10:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:24:06 http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/2013-June/017369.html Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem proved in Isabelle 09:30:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:37:15 kmc: do you know about count-min sketch 09:37:21 no 09:37:50 it's a thing like a bloom filter 09:38:25 reading 09:39:37 cool 09:41:52 thanks 09:42:09 wikipedia only says how to use it for counts, but I guess it can be used for other things? 09:51:06 * kmc → sleep 09:53:39 I don't know much more about it than you presumably do now. :-) 09:54:01 kmc: •Privacy preserving computations ensure that multiple parties can cooperate to compute a function of their data while only learning the answer and not anything about the inputs of the other participants. Roughan and Zhang demonstrate that the Count-Min Sketch can be used within such computations, by applying standard techniques for computing privacy preserving sums on each counter independently [15]. 09:56:51 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:30 -!- itsy has joined. 10:15:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:27:13 hmm, the norwegian seafood council wants to introduce a special swedish word for salmon from norway 10:27:27 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:27:59 -!- itsy has joined. 10:51:28 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 10:53:53 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:12:53 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:13:13 -!- itsy has joined. 11:40:58 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:47:15 Grumble grumble. "Editing (including deleting points) is not supported for this geometry type. Editing is only supported on lines and polygons." 11:47:30 Apparently what I recorded with GPSLogger is a "tour" instead of a "line". 11:51:09 Or possibly a "track". 11:51:18 But a "path" is a "line". 12:10:53 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:23:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:29:15 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:57:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:07:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:27:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:31:24 -!- mnoqy has joined. 14:06:47 -!- nooga_ has joined. 14:13:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:16:37 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:17:04 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:17:50 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:18:09 -!- Koen_ has joined. 14:22:43 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:51:49 -!- Bike has joined. 15:14:16 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:18:38 aaaaaaaaaaaaah 15:20:01 elliott, I like the new lambdabot messagey thing 15:20:23 yw 15:20:25 not my doing 15:20:58 hey elliott read that book or whatever 15:22:29 book?? 15:23:59 mnoqy: the hott book 15:24:04 i'm getting Bike to remind me to read it 15:24:34 ah 15:24:45 i dont have a hott book but maybe i should get one 15:25:08 mnoqy: https://github.com/HoTT/book 15:25:11 its a "work in progress" aiui 15:25:42 i'll put it on my list 15:29:40 I'll put it on two lists, which I'll then immediately delete. 15:43:26 Hott Book 15:45:31 -!- nooga_ has joined. 15:46:42 bike already did that one nodl 15:52:38 how is the weather in hexham now? 15:53:44 Pleasantly warm 15:53:47 ~metar EGNT 15:53:58 ... 15:54:06 It was raining at lunchtime, though 15:54:21 yes its rainy but warm here too 15:54:34 39°C next week 15:54:44 If hagb4rd is in Prudhoe or something, I swear to god... 15:55:29 i should visit hexham 15:55:31 but then 15:55:35 visit neither of taneb/elliott 15:55:55 Didn't someone do that a couple of years ago 15:55:56 Well 15:56:01 People probably do that all the time 15:56:05 But someone in this channel 15:56:13 oerjan or fizzie or someone 15:56:43 should organize an #esoteric meetup 15:56:53 where nobody actually meets up 15:56:59 they're just all somewhere in hexham 16:01:41 that sounds dangerous 16:01:51 what if someone actually meets up 16:01:54 what was the command to calculate Celsius to Fahrenheit? 16:02:08 `sanetemp 0 16:02:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found 16:02:13 Not that 16:02:16 `frink ? 16:02:29 and then? 16:02:38 `frink 100 celsius -> fahrenheit 16:02:47 Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Unknown symbol "fahrenheit" \ Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 100 celsius (undefined symbol) -> fahrenheit (undefined symbol) 16:02:52 `frink 100 degrees celsius -> fahrenheit 16:02:57 help 16:02:58 Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Unknown symbol "fahrenheit" \ Warning: undefined symbol "celsius". \ Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Unconvertable expression: \ 1.7453292519943295767 celsius (undefined symbol) -> fahrenheit (undefined symbol) 16:03:14 im going to sleep 16:03:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 16:06:00 i wonder: do you english folks use celsius fahrenheit or kelvin or what? 16:07:43 i use celsius 16:08:00 so, it's common in UK? 16:09:51 > 100 * 9 / 5 + 32 16:09:52 212.0 16:09:54 HTH 16:10:00 hagb4rd: no, just elliott 16:10:36 thx coppro.. i see 16:56:31 They measure in Réaumur. 16:58:01 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130613-reaumur.jpg -- as seen in a park few days back. 16:59:13 (That was in Switzerland, though almost in Italy.) 16:59:52 (Okay, it's kind of hard to make out the label, but that's what it is.) 17:01:28 @google Réaumur 17:01:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale 17:01:28 Title: Réaumur scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 17:02:37 "Its only modern use is in the measuring of milk temperature in cheese production." Weird stuff. 17:03:21 weird indeed 17:04:14 Did we work out the answers to itsy's riddle? 17:04:48 i'd have given it a shot but i didn't have any time 17:07:26 @messages 17:09:42 I think I got it but I can't remember how I got it 17:15:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:32:58 -!- conehead has joined. 17:46:15 "Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss imagine Holmes as, well, the Doctor, somehow a central figure in the battle between good and evil even if they can't quite articulate why or how." i am so glad i found this blog 17:48:49 Phantom_Hoover: what blog? 17:55:28 holy shit, Elementary actually sounds good 17:57:07 Phantom_Hoover: i keep meaning to watch it if only for the malbolge 17:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: well, and also to piss off people who complain it's a ripoff of the bbc sherlock 17:57:42 it sounds better than bbc sherlock; frankly i'm gobsmacked 17:58:11 Phantom_Hoover: does it really surprise you that something could be better than a moffat show 17:59:28 dude it's an american modernisation of a british classic 17:59:36 does that really not fill you with foreboding 18:00:06 well, admittedly 18:06:50 I think in early episodes they tried too hard to appeal to the shippers 18:07:13 you... watch elementary? 18:07:26 On occasion, not every episode 18:07:27 In fact 18:07:32 About three episodes 18:16:34 -!- disadep has joined. 18:16:41 hello 18:17:02 Hi 18:17:06 `welcome disadep 18:17:08 disadep: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:17:29 I came here from wiki 18:17:36 :D 18:18:14 -!- FreeFull has quit. 18:18:16 I became interested in esoteric languages recently 18:18:45 Oh? 18:20:26 I even created one 18:20:36 and I was wondering if it's Turing-complete 18:20:51 is there a good way to find out if it really is? 18:21:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:23:18 There's a knack to it 18:23:31 DL? 18:24:00 yep 18:24:38 -!- disadep has changed nick to disaderp. 18:25:53 I don't think that is Turing complete. Is the full spec online anywhere? 18:26:16 wait a minute 18:27:19 consider http://esolangs.org/wiki/Computational_class#Proofs_of_computational_class 18:27:23 here is the list of avaliable functions: http://pastebin.com/7PMHWQJh 18:29:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:31:35 -!- Bike has joined. 18:33:44 disaderp: have you defined any comparison operators? 18:34:16 there is a function Cmp() that compares two ints or two bools 18:34:23 ah 18:35:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:37:12 http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-hacks/2013-June/000552.html 18:38:53 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:39:36 kmc: disgusting. great 18:47:09 `zalgo "hi" 18:47:40 No output. 18:47:55 `run echo "hi" | zalgo 18:47:57 h̞͐iͤ͘ 18:48:57 `run echo "hi" | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo 18:49:00 ḩ̬̰̘̀็i͙̹ͬ̄͝͡ 18:59:56 A knot diagram can be interpreted as a network of resistors, where each crossing is a resistor with resistance either 1 or -1. 19:00:19 Then the Reidemeister moves are all valid ways of rewriting a resistor network. 19:02:48 Specifcally: adding a resistor between an existing node and a new node (R1), adding a resistor between a node and itself (R1), replacing a node with three nodes connected by resistors of resistance 1 and -1 in series (R2), adding resistors of resistance 1 and -1 in parallel to any gap (R2), and the wye-delta transform (R3), and the reverse of all these. 19:08:39 Conversely, any planar resistor network where resistors have resistance 1 and -1 can be interpreted as a knot diagram. 19:10:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:11:07 g2g 19:11:08 bye 19:11:18 Adi(o with acute accent)s. 19:11:26 -!- disaderp has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:12:16 It's not obvious what it means for two resistor networks to be equivalent. 19:16:40 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:17:26 -!- esimmers has joined. 19:17:36 Help Your country get to the top in the virtual world of E-sim. Become a businessman, military leader or a mighty president. Join for FREE now: http://secura.e-sim.org/lan.3355/ 19:17:36 -!- esimmers has left. 19:18:01 is this channel like a hot hangout now 19:18:15 help your country get k-lined 19:19:33 elliott, can you think of anywhere in Hexham that prints designs onto T-shirts? 19:19:40 nope 19:19:47 Corbridge? 19:20:00 nope 19:20:02 :( 19:20:03 isn't there a cheapass way to do it yourself 19:20:15 Bike, you need some fancy paper which I can't find 19:21:37 http://www.thomsonlocal.com/Screen%20printers/in/Hexham/ it appears the answer is no 19:21:54 according to the almighty 19:21:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:22:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:23:03 #esoteric must have finally "made it" to be noticed by freenode spammers. 19:23:27 hooray! 19:24:07 probably that wsj piece that's coming any day now 19:24:40 retroactively attracting spam 19:24:44 the wsj's powers are great 19:25:42 @google esoteric wall street journal 19:25:43 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204517204577046381261300406.html 19:25:43 Title: Test for Bonds Backed by Esoteric Assets - WSJ.com 19:26:04 nice 19:26:05 This channel: full of assets. 19:26:18 And other things starting with "ass". 19:26:27 assassins 19:26:34 assailants 19:26:40 Assyrians. 19:26:40 bro are you esoteric 'cos i have a turkey baster and you have... assets... yes 19:27:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:35:09 so um. this really isn't #esoteric material but (I guess C++ is kind of esoteric <.<) if I have an Apple class and a Banana class and both classes contain functions that reference each other, how do I do a forward class declaration so that I don't get undeclared Banana messages? 19:36:09 does just "class Banana;" work or is there something more elaborate I'm missing? 19:37:14 oh, maybe that would? I have no idea, I am terrible at this 19:38:08 don't worry, nobody has yet figured out how to not be terrible at C++ 19:38:43 yay, it works, thanks 19:39:00 the programming ethos: just guess and hope it works (it does) (sometimes) 19:39:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Undeclared Banana messages | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | SEUTA KEULAEPEUTEU | nid wyf yn y swyddfa. 19:40:00 is that underhanded thing still ongoing? 19:40:13 Fiora: :) 19:41:10 oerjan: "the deadline is July 4th" 19:41:34 oerjan: imo you should read this homotopy type theory book for me 19:41:46 i'm w/ that guy 19:43:13 is homotopy type theory actually consistent the little i've noticed about makes it look like it declares almost everything equal 19:43:22 *about it 19:44:02 two equals three, up equals down, anarchy reigns. such is life under homotopy 19:44:18 -!- atehwa_ has changed nick to atehwa. 19:46:21 oerjan: it declares identity and equivalence equal 19:46:30 oerjan: that is, an isomorphism between A and B implies equality of A and B 19:46:43 and the conjecture is that the resulting system is still computable. 19:46:56 (where A and B are types, of course) 19:46:57 hm i guess that just means working in a skeleton category, or something 19:46:58 conjecture? 19:47:06 oerjan: well the idea is to enrichen equality 19:47:09 rather than weakening isomorphism 19:47:26 Bike: yes, it's not been shown that you can always compute the equality substitutions using the axiom away 19:47:36 anyway this book is literally 500 pages. 19:48:20 is the axiom called 'away' i'm confused 19:48:25 is 500 pages supposed to be a lot 19:48:54 these days i have trouble with 5 19:48:55 Bike: as opposed to getting blocked on substitution of an equality using the univalence axiom 19:49:04 right so beyond me 19:49:04 imo 500 pages is a lot. 19:50:12 Bike: i.e., a program can reduce to something like "rewrite foo : ...stuff involving A and its terms... to foo : ...stuff involving B and its terms... by univalence (...isomorphism between A and B...)" 19:50:42 and it's not proven that you can always get "past" that rewrite to actually computing foo however it's defined, is my understanding. 19:51:03 livin on the edge 19:52:07 my new laptop is too cold for my lap :( 19:52:58 oerjan: try compiling ghc hth 19:54:10 civilization 5 is really good at making mine overheat 19:54:16 it's fun too! two birds 19:54:39 birds? 19:54:45 elliott: ☺ 19:54:55 Bike: have you ever killed birds w/ stones 19:55:02 no wtf 19:55:06 why would id 19:55:12 analogies for people who are cruel to animals: imo the best analogies? 19:55:20 is this some kind of sicko british schoolboy thing 19:55:25 yes, you got it 19:55:31 we... play civilisation 5 19:55:35 (!!) 19:55:49 well you don't have to use such analogies, there's more than one way to skin a cat 19:55:50 disgusting 19:55:54 * Fiora eagerly awaits the new expansion 19:56:02 btw did you know the dutch expression is 19:56:08 "hit two flies with one swat" 19:56:18 it's cute 19:56:30 that's also the norwegian expression hth 19:56:37 great, cruelty to birds /and/ bugs 19:56:39 nice 19:56:44 assholes 19:57:06 12:56 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE is now known as purr 19:57:23 Phantom_Hoover, is friendship mouse still about? 19:57:50 ph became friendship mouse 19:58:55 yes 19:59:01 what's this about civ 5 19:59:18 it involves killing animals 20:02:41 I don't know ._. 20:03:00 #esoteric civ 5 succession game 20:05:48 oooh, succession games 20:05:54 I remember seeing lots of logs of those for civ 4, they looked really fun 20:06:08 i don't have civ 5 though :( 20:13:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:14:04 But it's only [an amount of money]. 20:15:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:16:42 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 20:24:10 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:25:43 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 20:45:12 what's New Foundations in this analogy <-- uniqueness types hth 20:45:28 yeah i considered saying that 20:45:59 Fiora, we do a Dwarf Fortress one 20:46:06 Unless elliott has lost it 20:56:51 -!- itsy has joined. 20:57:40 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/lysurus_cruciatus.html squid mushroom 20:59:26 how long did you spend weeping with joy before you linked that 20:59:51 not long 21:05:46 "No, you don't install things by typing 'sudo easy_install thing' into the Python REPL. Not only is that not a console, you're on Windows." 21:11:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:13:46 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 21:15:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:20:25 -!- sacje has joined. 21:24:29 wait 21:24:31 what 21:24:45 that thing about the wii fit trainer being in the next super smash bros wasn't a joke? 21:24:58 No, it's awesome. 21:25:09 There's a villager from Animal Crossing too. 21:25:11 i don't know what to think any more 21:25:32 that they'll go well with game and watch? 21:26:01 game and watch was funny because he was a one-off! 21:26:14 wasn't he in two games 21:26:28 Yeah, I think he was in Melee and Brawl 21:26:30 a TWo Off 21:27:07 i guess there was rob as well 21:27:22 pew pew 21:27:28 but this is just getting silly! 21:27:51 dude it's SSB 21:28:01 it is the silliest 21:28:07 hth 21:28:09 it's getting so silly 21:28:11 I was playing Brawl this evening 21:28:20 I completely changed my control scheme for the hell of it 21:28:29 the wii fit trainer is awesome 21:28:31 SSB tourney people are hilarious, on that note 21:28:35 everything about her is pretty great 21:28:39 fox only, final destination, etc 21:28:45 like, it means that now, super smash brothers has a 21:28:48 no 21:28:49 stop 21:28:53 * Fiora takes off her sunglasses 21:28:56 strong female character 21:29:01 dammit is it even sunny where you are! 21:29:09 ummm it is 21:29:12 oh 21:29:17 next in super smash bros: a generic mii 21:29:19 it's miserable here, i, just kind of assumed 21:29:26 I think they're actually allowing miis in the next version? 21:29:27 not sure 21:29:30 Bike, as someone who's actually participated in a SSBB tournament, I managed to convince them to play random stage 21:29:39 And it pretty much lost me the final 21:29:39 did you win 21:29:44 loer 21:29:45 s 21:29:47 whatever 21:29:52 Fiora, what about Samus 21:30:02 it was a joke <.< 21:30:20 what about nana 21:30:22 >.> 21:30:27 WHAT ABOUT PIKACHU 21:30:38 but um like. really the wii fit trainer makes gaming dudebros angry so it's probably a good thing 21:31:17 Fiora, are you getting all the "villager will behead you without a second thought" stuff on Tumblr 21:31:31 it's such a weird thing to be pissed about, I mean Brawl had a pictochat level 21:31:39 super serious 21:31:52 idk, it does... feel kind of different? 21:32:17 ok 21:32:17 Taneb: all the stuff about the villager is wonderful 21:32:21 especially as a fan of animal crossing 21:32:35 is it true that his final smash involves weeding 21:32:35 like oh gosh the digging pits to catch your opponents 21:32:36 part of it might be that i never really thought of wii fit as a 'game', more of as an appliance or something 21:32:49 dance dance revolution is a game, right? 21:32:51 Fiora, they already had an item for that didn't they 21:32:52 unlike pictochat 21:33:39 i suppose i give more leeway for stages, then? 21:38:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: GOODNIGHT). 21:47:29 oerjan: 21:47:41 Given this discussion of adding new principles such as univalence, higher inductive types, AC, and LEM, one may wonder whether the resulting system remains consistent. (One of the original virtues of type theory, relative to set theory, was that it can be seen to be consistent by proof-theoretic means). 21:47:48 As with any foundational system, consistency is a relative ques- tion: “consistent with respect to what?” The short answer is that all of the constructions and axioms considered in this book have a model in the category of Kan complexes, due to Voevod- sky [KLV12] (see [LS13b] for higher inductive types). 21:47:55 Thus, they are known to be consistent relative to ZFC (with as many inaccessible cardinals as we need nested univalent universes). Giving a more traditionally type-theoretic account of this consistency is work in progress (see, e.g., [LH12, BCH13]). 21:55:32 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:56:16 Bike: also, the exact form of what's unknown: "Voevodsky has formulated a precise mathematical conjecture connected to this question of canonicity for type theory extended with the axiom of Univalence: given a closed term of the type of natural numbers, is it always possible to find a numeral and a proof that this term is equal to this numeral, where this proof of equality may itself use the univalence axiom?" 21:56:22 that may have got cut off 21:58:54 it didnt 21:58:58 thx 22:00:00 it's miserable here, i, just kind of assumed <-- i think Fiora is in california hth 22:02:24 has anyone here used Actual pictochat 22:02:33 it was very good it had some good emoticons 22:02:44 i remember: a happy square, a sad square 22:02:49 i have 22:02:55 one time i used ms comic chat in wine and it barely worked but i cant seem to get it to work anymore 22:03:01 sunny is miserable though :< 22:03:02 but then you could like 22:03:03 I'd rather it be cloudy 22:03:29 type a happy face, press send, then type a sad face, then copy your previous message 22:03:40 and you'd start "layering" emoticons and they'd get Amazing 22:05:53 that sounds good 22:06:23 does the 3ds even have pictochat ????? 22:06:37 wow no 22:06:53 It has a chat thing where you can draw messages and send them to each other 22:07:03 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Pictochat.png bottom left corner: the happy face 22:07:16 ah, Swapnote 22:07:19 right, that's what it was called 22:08:30 nooodl: one person talking to themselves about wikipedia 22:08:32 the saddest pictochat 22:08:42 yes :( 22:09:51 nooodl, did it have 3d pictochat 22:09:54 that should be a thing 22:09:58 (sculptochat?) 22:15:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:15:41 that sounds like it'd be really hard to use 22:19:44 4d pictochat! 22:19:46 it could be pretty good 22:20:11 drawing on an xy plane, two buttons control the z axis 22:20:38 why do I imagine this would be used almost entirely for sculpting, um. obscene things 22:20:39 and then you'd draw a thing, hold the down button for a while, then draw anothing thing! and one would be behind the other 22:20:43 imo 3d pictochat hooked up to a 3d printer 22:20:46 and a 3d scanner 22:20:50 so you actually sculpt something and send it over 22:21:09 and then people us it for guns 22:21:54 RIP 22:22:10 -!- SgeoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:22:12 how about cute things like nendoroids 22:22:14 guns aren't very cute 22:22:25 what if you made it like some kind of glassblowing simulator 22:22:32 i would pay actual money for that 22:22:35 that sounds good 22:22:50 also: takes skill to make a penis 22:23:12 i'm sure they're willing to learn 22:23:33 have to study at the academy of penis blowing 22:24:15 elliott: I hear it's very popular among young men these days 22:24:50 glassblowing? huh 22:25:41 maybe it's good money.....high demand for glass penises???? 22:27:17 hey everyone has seen glass klein bottles rite 22:27:32 I've seen a real one 22:27:38 none of this lousy self-intersecting shit 22:28:06 did you know that the guy who runs that klein bottle site is also the guy who tracked down that german hacker in the 80s? 22:28:15 which german hacker 22:28:20 hess 22:29:13 well, 22:29:13 no 22:31:27 -!- SgeoBot has joined. 22:31:33 sgeobot? 22:31:36 help 22:31:50 we've actually been talking to sgeobot for years 22:37:46 nah i think his new employed just cyborgized him 22:37:51 *employer 22:38:27 sgeo's moving up in the world 22:40:13 soon he'll be involved in dramatic battles between good and evil. we are not yet sure on which side. 22:40:58 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:42:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:43:04 -!- Bike has joined. 22:46:01 -!- noooodl has joined. 22:47:04 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:56:53 Bike: http://www.theonion.com/articles/advanced-alien-civilization-discovers-uninhabitabl,32808/ 22:58:50 not that old canard 23:00:05 Fiora: heh 23:02:17 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:02:34 oh gosh. that quote is still around 23:03:14 what do you do if you have brown eyes 23:03:48 `quote Fiora 23:03:50 820) omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. \ 830) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it \ 958) Sgeo_, are you just trying to post kmcbait.. 23:03:59 oh you have a lot of quotes 23:04:36 apparently? 23:04:47 "his eyes like normal brown-ish stones" 23:05:05 "her eyes like normal brown-ish stones" // actually me 23:08:44 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:10:35 elliott: so how's that axiomy thingy work with richardson's theorem; also why is it "numeral"; also there's no chance in hell i'll understand anything 23:11:46 Fiora: global warming is just depress ing 23:13:13 -!- noooodl has quit (Quit: noooodl). 23:13:24 Bike: i don't see the relation to richardson's theorem 23:13:35 richardson's theorem is about decidability 23:13:56 it's numeral because expressions of the form e ::= 0 | S e are the normal form values of type nat 23:14:11 and you can turn any finite amount of "things computed" into something of type nat 23:14:17 so it's a reasonable choice for stating the property 23:14:23 well isn't it about proving a closed form is equal to a number 23:15:22 I,I (you can't prove that) (crack isn't fake) 23:15:28 ok 23:15:51 Bike: well you can prove any term of type nat in normal regular type theory has a numeral and a proof that the term is equal to that numeral 23:16:12 Bike: you evaluate the term, it results in a numeral, and then the proof is obvious 23:16:18 "it reduces to the numeral; q.e.d." 23:16:50 it's sad that i'm trying to figure out if "normal regular" is a technical term 23:16:58 it isn't 23:17:02 i know 23:17:07 hth 23:17:38 you're thinking of standard normal hth 23:19:18 Bike: so like, there's this problem of "given 2 21x21 matrices with integer elements, is it possible to multiply them in some order (with repetition if you want) to achieve the zero matrix" 23:19:37 apparently um. this isn't even like EXPTIME or something. it's undecidable 23:20:02 yeah matrix mortality right 23:20:15 i thought you only needed 13x13 23:20:20 ^rainbow linear operators 23:20:20 linear operators 23:20:48 this paper says 7x 3x3 or 2x 21x21 23:20:55 hm 23:20:59 well, integers make everything harder 23:21:00 Fiora: god, i hate magic numbers like that 23:21:01 that's just a fact 23:21:06 where it all works for a bit and then collapses 23:21:14 doesn't even get harder, just gets impossible 23:21:22 impossible is harder than possible 23:21:23 imo 23:21:54 hey was Fiora around when a wall street journalist came here to interview chris pressey 23:21:58 never forget. 23:21:59 wow there are two other problems about atrices that are undecideable. 23:22:02 O_O? 23:22:07 i swear i'm not making that up 23:22:11 "Determining whether a finite set of upper triangular 3 × 3 matrices with nonnegative integer entries generates a free semigroup." "Determining whether two finitely generated subsemigroups of M_n(Z) have a common element." 23:22:13 he also asked like two questions about hexham 23:22:16 subsemigroups, that's just beautiful. 23:22:16 * Fiora has no idea who that is? 23:22:27 cpressey is elliott's religion 23:22:28 you don't know who chris pressey is... 23:22:29 geez "post correspondence problem" 23:22:32 i think he founded the site or whatever 23:22:33 chris pressey is the guy who made befunge and lots of other esoteric languages, he used to be here a lot but now he isn't 23:22:37 but he came back to do this interview 23:22:41 `? cpressey 23:22:41 Fiora: that's named after Post! it's not to do with letters i hate that 23:22:43 cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mouse. 23:23:02 Fiora: btw Post only had one arm. i like pointing this out because it's an odd little thing 23:23:06 @_@ 23:23:07 Bike: he didn't start the wiki or anything (esolangs are way older than the wiki) 23:23:16 ohhhh. I think this problem makes sense now 23:23:16 (i know that much) 23:23:19 but he popularised the term "esoteric" as it pertains to computing I believe 23:23:24 it can't be EXPTIME because the lists on either side can grow without bound 23:23:33 gosh that is an evil problem 23:23:52 i think my favorite undecideable problem is just the word problem for groups 23:23:57 nice'n'easy to understand 23:24:03 I guess it kind of intuitively makes sense that the matrix problem is kind of like the post corresopndance one 23:24:14 Bike: mine is equality of functions 23:24:14 "matrices are weird, and Post was weird, so..." 23:24:21 what's the word problem again 23:24:21 elliott: too obvious 23:24:28 Bike: not very obvious! 23:24:33 people think you can compare functions all the time 23:24:34 Bike: ... easy? >_< 23:24:57 Phantom_Hoover: figuring out if two expressions of group operations represent the same element 23:25:20 (obviously it's decideable for some groups) 23:25:35 Fiora: what can i say i like groups 23:25:38 "two expressions of group operations" o_O 23:25:41 finite groups 23:25:46 for instance 23:25:53 my favourite is that one with matrices 23:26:23 "The mortal matrix problem: determining, given a finite set of n n matrices with integer entries, whether they can be multiplied in some order, possibly with repetition, to yield the zero matrix." 23:26:26 you could say Bike is a groupie 23:26:41 Phantom_Hoover: the one that started this conversation 23:26:46 oh 23:26:49 sorry I guess I don't really get the group thing 23:26:53 why would anyone suggest anything else then 23:27:18 Fiora: like, does a*b*c = b*a*c or somethin 23:27:40 Fiora: so you can describe a group as a set of generating elements + a set of relations that can simplify expressions 23:27:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentation_of_a_group 23:27:50 Bike: wait, why would that be undecideable 23:27:59 Fiora, it's not, for finite groups 23:28:14 Fiora: because everything is terrible. 23:28:16 and a bunch of other ones 23:28:17 and so the word problem is like 'can we transform this word into that word using these relations' 23:28:23 or transform them both into the same word, anyway 23:28:32 * Fiora is completely lost 23:29:06 it's ok 23:29:15 there are like a billion undecideable problems to choose from 23:29:24 the idea is that you can't do it for all groups ever (but it might be easy to do it for a particular group) 23:29:29 n.b. i don't really undersatnd the word problem either 23:29:37 i note that all the groups with undecidable word problems wp cites seem to be only remarkable for having unsolvable word problems 23:29:49 well yeah 23:30:09 how often do you construct a set of matrices you can't multiplicate together 23:30:22 hmm, is the mortal matrix thing just a special case of the word problem??? 23:30:29 no 23:30:38 yeah i guess not 23:31:01 -!- sprocklem has joined. 23:31:14 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/3/a/53add5b1c27847ffeeee892cfedb4984.png o____o 23:31:25 Fiora: welcome 2 math 23:31:31 yeah, that's what i was saying 23:31:57 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:32:46 what a silly looking presentation 23:33:02 group theory isn't math hth 23:33:03 wait, if you have your matrices can't you make a group with them as the generatotrs 23:33:21 Bike: ????????? 23:33:42 is that confusing 23:33:44 you can take the free group over a set of matrices but that's just stupid 23:33:47 Bike, no 23:33:50 because youre not using the matrices at all 23:33:56 because they're not necessarily invertible 23:33:58 >> probe money 23:33:58 *** ERROR 23:33:58 ** Script error: money has no value 23:34:04 mnoqy: don't you tell me my free groups are stupid!! 23:34:06 what 23:34:17 (After I poked fun at $6 / $2 being $3) 23:34:25 Phantom_Hoover: o rite 23:34:47 if the matrices are invertible can you solve the mortality problem 23:35:02 yes: "theres no solution" 23:35:08 bc invertible matrices never multiply to 0 23:35:27 cool 23:36:58 what kind of algebraic structure do yo uneed to solve the morality problem 23:37:19 epigenetics 23:47:10 fancy 23:48:26 Track the status of your shipments, nickname your packages, create a personal watch list, and filter shipments to see the details you want. It’s an all-new tracking experience. 23:48:57 does it celebrate anything 23:49:19 celebrates shipmanship 23:49:20 trackmanship 23:49:27 not sure 23:50:12 Ship name: Rosemary Watchlist: Yes Ship status: Canon 23:50:27 how many canon are on that ship 23:50:51 fedex called me to say i'd have to be there for signing for a thing but i could change things via the tracking number 23:50:52 Ship contents: Kanaya Maryam, Rose LaLonde Status: Drunk 23:51:04 but a couple of the tracking number digits were cut off by bad reception or something 23:51:15 oh, that 23:51:42 oh, that 23:51:46 wow, kmc, that putin story 23:51:57 wait what putin story 23:52:46 he started his own party apparently 23:52:55 not that one 23:52:57 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/13/vladimir-putin-defends-the-u-s-on-spying-programs-drones-and-occupy-wall-street/ 23:53:04 that one 23:54:02 news on twitter is weird. guy says WH announcement re: syria is unimportant compared to the jihad 23:54:31 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:54:44 what announcement did i miss 23:54:48 that sounds like wonderful marketing material. 23:54:50 U.S. to increase 'scope and scale' of aid to rebels 23:54:52 "PRISM: endorsed by putin" 23:55:15 it's putin-tastic 23:55:20 elliott: the white house said they'd step up aid, and also a bunch of important clerics declared jihad on the syrian government. 23:56:39 Fiora, i wonder if this is some brilliant gambit by putin 23:57:42 does he need gambits 23:57:43 "ha HA! now the government will be forced to roll back the police state from Russian levels! IT WILL BE THEIR DOOM!" 23:57:49 n.b. i assume putin is a comic book villain 23:57:59 elliott, maybe? 23:58:08 well can't he pretty much do whatever the hell he likes 23:58:12 since when does america care what foreigners think of our government 23:58:38 since we're being praised by the wrong foreigners