00:02:04 > fix (\x y z -> y : map z x) 1 (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 00:02:05 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 00:02:05 with actual type `a0 -> (a... 00:03:15 Oh right 00:03:49 > fix (\x y z -> y : map z (x y z)) 1 (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 00:03:50 [1.0,3.0,3.732050807568877,3.9318516525781364,3.982889722747621,3.995717846... 00:03:58 Bike: How's that? 00:04:25 It's converging to a different number... 00:04:32 constants are changing 00:04:51 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 1 00:04:52 [1.0,3.0,3.732050807568877,3.9318516525781364,3.982889722747621,3.995717846... 00:04:56 (four does not equal the square root of six) 00:05:03 >> do-monad identity-m [a: 5 b: 6] [a + b] 00:05:03 == 11 00:05:17 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 2.44 00:05:18 [2.44,3.5620499351813306,3.887339379968884,3.9716336830072883,3.99289580334... 00:05:23 > iterate (\x -> 2 + sqrt x) 5 00:05:24 [5.0,4.23606797749979,4.058171027271492,4.014490264873844,4.0036192914009,4... 00:05:33 Sgeo_: Why wouldn't it converge to 4? 00:05:47 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) -- maybe i fucked up. 00:05:48 [Double]> 00:05:56 FreeFull, um, why are you asking me? 00:06:00 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) 2 00:06:00 [2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.0,2.... 00:06:02 typo, probably 00:06:06 > iterate (\x -> sqrt (x + 2)) 5 00:06:06 Sgeo_: Woops 00:06:07 [5.0,2.6457513110645907,2.1554004989942337,2.0384799481462244,2.00959696161... 00:06:30 Bike: That converges to 2 00:06:31 yeah, my mistake. 00:06:46 like usual *sobs all over Sgeo_* 00:07:02 > iterate (\x -> sqrt 6) 0 00:07:04 [0.0,2.449489742783178,2.449489742783178,2.449489742783178,2.44948974278317... 00:07:07 There you go 00:07:29 lol 00:07:37 =P 00:09:26 i see those iBooter spammers have got annoying again... 00:10:53 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 00:10:54 [1.0,0.0,-Infinity,6.0,5.0,4.8,4.75,4.7368421052631575,4.733333333333333,4.... 00:10:57 -!- jerkbot1 has joined. 00:10:59 -!- jerkbot1 has quit (Excess Flood). 00:11:03 I have no idea what that converges to 00:11:32 i wonder if we dodged a bullet there... 00:11:44 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100 00:11:45 4.732050807568878 00:11:58 -!- jerkbot1 has joined. 00:12:00 -!- jerkbot1 has quit (Excess Flood). 00:12:05 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 00:12:05 > (iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100)^2 00:12:06 22.392304845413268 00:12:14 don't ban it 00:12:15 I have no idea what the significance of that number is 00:12:16 i wanna see what it does 00:12:17 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:12:24 heh 00:12:27 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:12:40 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:12:46 71/15, there we go. i'm good at math 00:12:51 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:12:53 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 00:13:05 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 1000 00:13:06 4.732050807568878 00:13:09 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 10000 00:13:10 4.732050807568878 00:13:12 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100000 00:13:13 4.732050807568878 00:13:15 ok 00:13:19 or some nasty ass fraction 00:13:29 >> do-monad list-m [a: [1 2 3] b: [4 5 6]] [a + b] 00:13:30 == [5 6 7 6 7 8 7 8 9] 00:13:31 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 100000 :: CReal 00:13:32 *Exception: stack overflow 00:13:34 Well, google does give results for the number 00:13:37 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 10000 :: CReal 00:13:41 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:13:42 So it is something 00:13:43 lol. 00:13:45 > iterate (\x -> 6 - 6/x) 1 !! 1000 :: CReal 00:13:49 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:13:53 x = 6 - 6/x, x² = 6x - 6, x² - 6x + 6 = 0, bla bla whatever. 00:14:06 more like bike = sucks 00:14:10 basically yeah 00:14:11 ;_; 00:14:13 harsh but fair 00:14:13 Bike: Probably that 00:14:19 bike = the best hth 00:14:29 whaddya mean "probably" 00:14:59 Probably that's why there are google results for it 00:15:02 http://pastie.org/8035336 00:15:08 Probably not the best Rebol code in existence 00:15:24 has anyone else started caring about rebol yet 00:15:32 i think kmc did once maybe 00:15:53 monad/bind ma :f 00:15:57 I should make that :ma not ma 00:15:59 also what on earth does it need return for 00:17:38 Because pure is lame 00:17:39 15:48:53: You should configure a key combination in your Emacs to access it. 00:17:43 15:49:10: The key combination should be prominently listed on top of the cheat sheet, since you'll be needing it often. 00:17:46 sounds logical. 00:17:53 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 00:17:57 oerjan: imo, op me. 00:18:02 > pure "logic" 00:18:03 No instance for (Control.Applicative.Applicative f0) 00:18:03 arising from a use ... 00:18:12 > pure "logic" :: [[Char]] 00:18:13 ["logic"] 00:18:33 > 4 ** 3 00:18:34 64.0 00:18:46 elliott: imo, @admin + me 00:19:16 > (\a b c -> ((negate b) + sqrt(b**2 - 4*a*c)) / 2*a) 1 -6 6 00:19:17 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num 00:19:17 (GHC.Integer.Type.Intege... 00:19:22 yeah ok whatever. 00:19:26 Wonder how badly the internals of that thing can be messed up 00:20:25 :t sqrt 00:20:25 Floating a => a -> a 00:20:43 Bike: (-6) 00:21:04 are you serious 00:21:06 > -6 00:21:07 -6 00:21:11 ?? 00:21:30 haskell more like i have no idea what's happeningskell 00:21:33 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:51 > (*) 1 -6 -- is it some parse weirdness 00:21:52 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 00:21:52 arising from a use ... 00:21:56 wow awesome 00:22:00 > (*) 1 (negate 6) 00:22:00 -6 00:22:12 > (\a b c -> ((negate b) + sqrt(b**2 - 4*a*c)) / 2*a) 1 (negate 6) 6 00:22:13 4.732050807568877 00:22:14 > (*) 1 (-6) 00:22:15 -6 00:22:18 there. i have scienced 00:22:32 i am now at the level of a seventh grader algebraist 00:25:17 Bike: Now do differentation or integration 00:25:29 ugh i already had to do that today 00:25:35 Dsin = cos do i win 00:26:16 Bike: now do DD 00:26:22 No, you have to write it in lisp 00:26:27 what! 00:26:39 scheme is fine too 00:26:43 (D-DD)sin = cos + sin bam 00:27:01 no not D ∘ D 00:27:07 D(D) 00:27:13 haha you ass 00:27:25 what's the type of D 00:27:29 does anyone know why these would differ <-- extended defaulting still requires a "standard" class to be involved in the mess. typeable isn't one, but show is. 00:27:34 it isn't just (R -> R) -> (R -> R) 00:27:35 It's a linear operator. 00:27:43 So... yeah, that works. 00:27:44 shachaf: Something like Expr a -> Expr a 00:28:01 no, that doesn't work because it could be e.g. (C -> C) -> C -> C 00:28:24 so D : Something a => (a -> a) -> a -> a 00:28:27 why do i have a file named crap.sh 00:28:29 Field a 00:28:29 is (R -> R) an instance of Something? 00:28:31 call it good 00:28:35 oh it's a 900 character long qemu-kvm command line 00:28:43 ok are functions from R to R a field 00:29:09 Ah, don't think so, square integrable ones are though? Maybe? I'm shit at analysis 00:29:10 shachaf: (R -> R) is a monoid 00:29:18 > print 00:29:19 <() -> IO ()> 00:29:24 > id 00:29:25 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 00:29:25 arising from a use ... 00:29:26 Bike: look i just want the derivative of taking derivatives 00:29:33 tensors hth 00:29:34 don't make this more difficult than it needs to be hth 00:29:41 :t print 00:29:42 Show a => a -> IO () 00:30:04 > undefined :: () -> IO () 00:30:06 <() -> IO ()> 00:30:57 haha wikipedia has a whole article on generalizing differentiation, sweet 00:31:24 shachaf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_derivative 00:31:37 https: plz thx hth 00:31:50 http's 00:31:51 shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_derivative 00:31:58 btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivation_(abstract_algebra) 00:32:02 yeah i know 00:32:07 shachaf: why don't you just use https everywhere or w/e 00:32:19 elliott: why doesn't Bike hth 00:32:25 i told you it was a linear map! but nooooo 00:32:40 anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalizations_of_the_derivative and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalizations_of_the_derivative 00:33:29 I wonder if this is related to fractional calculus. 00:33:53 hey p-adic analysis is a thing 00:34:11 joke: do you relate type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory, because you're pretty HoTT 00:34:22 thank you i'll be here all week 00:34:28 jesus fuck dude 00:34:53 i agree with Bike 00:35:02 i agree with mnoqy 00:35:05 but not with Bike 00:35:16 update: still laughing at my own joke 00:35:30 update: still laughing in horror at elliott's joke 00:35:35 `smlist 00:35:36 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 00:35:47 thachaf 00:36:33 > permutations "mnoqy" 00:36:34 ["mnoqy","nmoqy","onmqy","nomqy","omnqy","monqy","qonmy","oqnmy","onqmy","q... 00:36:38 > print 3 00:36:39 00:36:43 imo we should add all of those to smlist. 00:36:44 i bet that gopher relates type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory 00:36:44 Interesting 00:36:48 No longer ugly errors 00:36:58 thanks be to lambdabot's new master, elliott 00:37:00 death to cale 00:37:05 mnoqy: i literally 00:37:07 fucking thought 00:37:09 goddamn 00:37:43 update: laughing at my own joke for the second time 00:37:51 19:03:07: oerjan: hi 00:37:51 19:08:02: hellørjan 00:37:52 update: get a life!!! 00:37:56 EVENING 00:38:08 get oerjan's life i bet he's not using it!! 00:38:19 how about i get your life (i'm hitting on you again) 00:38:24 i'm with Bike 00:38:39 my life mostly involves feeling bad about social programs sorry 00:38:43 "not very high-life" 00:38:58 highlife the CA 00:38:59 hang on are we playing hit on the monqy 00:39:04 my life mostly involves not participating in any social programs, hth 00:39:05 i keep seeing that flash ad 00:39:07 it's good 00:39:35 Bike: maybe you should move to los angeles like Fiora 00:39:42 then you can feel bad about socal programs 00:39:57 social pogroms 00:39:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:40:02 ? 00:40:14 i think fiora actually lives in para-LA 00:40:22 i love highlife the CA 00:40:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:40:29 highlife the CA is pretty cool 00:40:31 ... para-LA? 00:40:31 kmc, look at my Rebol code? >.> 00:40:31 para-LA? 00:40:33 no 00:40:34 night and day is my favorite though 00:40:41 is that like a parala universe 00:40:43 i am starting to think win8 isn't very good at keeping connections open 00:40:45 kmc: whoa, man 00:40:54 high life, los angeles 00:40:57 elliott: You should @admin + me. 00:40:57 los angeles is in california (CA) 00:41:04 highlife is a CA 00:41:05 coincidence? 00:41:10 what's a para-LA... 00:41:10 coïncidence? 00:41:23 para-LA, ortho-LA, meta-LA 00:41:33 I should make a bot that fixes words like "cooperate" to add diæreses. 00:42:11 finally i will stop pronouncing it as "coin cidence" 00:42:37 cowincidence hth 00:42:58 the cow incidence in los angeles is unusually high today...... 00:43:03 is that so 00:43:10 but the cow palace is in SF 00:43:34 'pata-LA 00:43:58 kmc: is "overr̈eaction" an overr̈eaction 00:44:24 hey do y'all remember the secret cow level 00:44:46 BTW a fantasy tower defense card game I made called Mage Tower is coming out on June 28th, if you're into that stuff NERD 00:44:49 -JohnnySmash 00:44:52 Bike is JohnnySmash??????? 00:45:05 Yes. 00:45:15 secret identity∶ revealed 00:45:19 am i "the person who calls people nerds" 00:45:22 wow that ∶ was disappointing 00:45:35 Bike: yes and it's kind of rude 00:45:46 nerds are kind of rude 00:46:11 bike you're a nerd :< 00:46:15 calling people names considered harmful 00:46:19 especially yourself 00:46:39 i agree w/ Fiora and disagree w/ Bike (general statement) 00:46:39 Fiora: common misconception, ,i'm actually two nerds wearing a trenchcoat (it has like /nine/ pocket protectors) 00:46:46 also: nouns considered harmfulest, and adjectives considered harmfuler 00:46:53 and verbs considered the least harmful 00:46:58 verbing rocks 00:47:00 this is my philosophy on saying things about people 00:47:09 Bike: is that enough protectors for two nerds 00:47:12 why you gotta nerd so hard, shachaf 00:47:14 Bike: are those two very small nerds? 00:47:28 Fiora: no i'm like eleven feet tall total 00:47:39 turns out Fiora is actually half of a nerd wearing a quarter of a trenchcoat 00:47:40 bike is actually a Blame character 00:47:46 I- am not! 00:47:53 but can you prove it!! 00:47:57 which half 00:48:01 well um 00:48:04 for one I'm not wearing a trenchcoat 00:48:04 checkmate 00:48:12 hey kid want some of this *opens trenchcoat* *dozens of trenchcoats fall to the ground* 00:48:16 case closed 00:48:32 Bike: i'm actually trenchcoats all the way down 00:48:44 > fix trenchcoat 00:48:44 Not in scope: `trenchcoat' 00:48:52 elliott: ↑ 00:48:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_coats_in_popular_culture 00:49:23 http pls 00:49:34 82 degrees is a little warm for that kind of clothing, I think 00:49:41 @google 82 f in c 00:49:43 27.7777778 degrees Celsius 00:49:43 http://www.goodcooking.com/conversions/temp.htm 00:49:43 Title: Fahrenheit to Celsius Conversions 00:49:58 that's a little hot for just about any kind of clothing 00:50:07 though, it's only 24 C right now and I'm inside and it's probably 20 here 00:50:38 thx for using ℃ 00:50:44 shachaf: later in the summer it can get up to 36-39C sometimes 00:50:47 those are days I go to work early 00:50:50 Fiora: :-( 00:50:50 and come home late 00:51:10 you're in LA area with no air conditioning?? condolences 00:51:17 no way of course we have AC 00:51:19 thank goddess 00:51:23 oh ok 00:51:30 but I walk to/from work 00:51:41 so I can't, like, /totally/ pretend the weather doesn't exist 00:51:42 i lived on the top floor of a dorm with no AC, in a hall known as "Hell" for reasons which should be obvious 00:51:43 Fiora: have you considered that your emplyer is using a weather control machine to make you work long hours 00:51:49 o 00:52:09 my first year I had to have a window unit, it worked okay though 00:52:19 though, the first week of school, it reached ~43 C 00:52:25 which was like unusual even for here 00:52:31 omg 00:52:34 yes that is absurd 00:52:37 can humans even survive at those temperatures 00:52:37 and I remember all the faculty were like "I'm sorry frosh ;_; it is not normally like this" 00:52:42 hmm the record high temperature recorded in tel aviv was in may 00:52:45 pretty sure if it ever reached 35 C i would become a liquid 00:52:48 one time we gave all the prefrosh food poisoning! 00:52:54 at prefrosh weekend 00:53:01 the yield rate was unusually low that year 00:53:01 it never reached 43C the rest of my 4 years there, I think 00:53:17 it was literally just for the first week frosh were there. it was like, even the weather hates frosh 00:53:24 elliott: Cats actually do turn liquid around that temperature. 00:53:33 are you a cat scientist 00:53:34 I have witnessed cats dripping off bookshelves and such. 00:53:39 shachaf: making physics fun 00:53:42 shachaf: http://24.media.tumblr.com/af3987d0a104ea6ba65d6c1a04b5919d/tumblr_mgsrybJ49R1r2dft2o1_500.jpg 00:53:45 Cats are liquid! 00:54:13 Their melting point is somewhere above room temperature. 00:54:46 I am seriously bad at heat though, I can't stand anything over um like 26C 00:54:54 Fiora: why are you in los angeles 00:55:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:55:11 I'm near the coast! it's normally really cool here actually 00:55:21 imo bad decision 00:55:21 like it's usually no more than like 20-25C most of the year, even the summer 00:55:24 maybe move to san francisco 00:55:24 and um 00:55:29 this is kind of where I got a job >_< 00:55:34 cats don't maintain constant volume... 00:57:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:00:18 Fiora: imo get a job in san francisco 01:00:31 -!- Bike has joined. 01:00:31 all the cool people like kmc are doing it 01:01:52 I... I don't think that's so easy... 01:02:19 you know lots of things 01:02:22 'hella things' as they say in sf 01:02:31 but, maybe you like your current job! that is fine too 01:02:54 I have like no web programming skills, I'm terribly anxious at interviews, and I'm not really a great programmer or anything compared to like the silicon valley people 01:03:00 i hate all my current jobs. i also love all my current jobs 01:03:15 also, all of my current jobs are the same job, but no two of them are the smae. 01:03:18 same. 01:03:20 and I don't think I could keep to a startup schedule 01:03:25 you shouldn't abuse quantification motherfucker 01:03:47 also, for all of my current jobs, 2 + 2 = 5 01:03:54 once i develop my ant army i'll just give you a pension fiora 01:04:03 ant army? 01:04:06 most of the silicon valley people are not very good programmers 01:04:09 the joke is that elliott has no current jobs 01:04:15 thank you shachaf, that was indeed the joke 01:04:16 certainly most of them couldn't write optimized SSE assembly code like woah 01:04:29 not all companies in sf/sv are startups 01:04:31 Fiora: yeah, i'm gonna conquer the caucasus. 01:04:31 i would say web programming skills are generally a downside to finding a non-awful programming job 01:04:41 this has applied to all the programming jobs i have had (hint: the joke is that this set is also empty) 01:04:54 they plug together existing open source projects in boring ways to make billion dollar products that have little/no interesting tech 01:04:56 you're a leech elliott a leach! 01:04:58 I'm also really bad at dealing with people in-person and I don't really feel like I'd fit in (at least definitely not better than now...) 01:05:08 so yes stay away from web startups, but don't feel inferior to them 01:05:18 also geez what kind of cool startup wants some person with ancient skills like that :p 01:05:29 they have an awful shitty cult online of making people feel inferior to them 01:05:30 ancient 01:05:32 it's the worst 01:05:33 the computing world is scary 01:05:40 yes ancient skills like programming for the Intel chip that came out LAST WEEK >_< 01:05:50 that's like four years in intel time 01:06:21 it's true that companies with interesting tech are harder to find than web startups 01:06:28 but nobody really cares about assembly stuff anymore... like they're all talking about html and css and rails and go and rust and racket and 01:06:35 you can swing a dead cat and find a web startup 01:06:35 and like a million other things I know nothing about 01:06:45 Fiora: do you not deal with people in person now 01:07:06 I know one of the few remaining places that has assembly up the wazoo is game development (?) but oh gosh no that industry no no no no no 01:07:09 i can think of a cool startup. that's kind of weird. 01:07:13 (it's not a web startup) 01:07:18 no don't work in game development 01:07:19 shachaf: I kind of avoid it as much as possible 01:07:28 Fiora: what is your job anyway 01:07:31 was that one of the secret things 01:07:39 her job is avoiding talking about her job 01:07:40 I work at a software company in orange county 01:07:47 pretty well paying, i hear 01:08:15 it's not that amazing really I just have nothing to spend the money on 01:08:18 low-level assembly optimisation is till really important, it's just not fashionable. but also half the fashionable things are awful anyway, so fashionability doesn't really matter 01:08:31 and geez I don't only do that. like I program C too and I struggle horribly at C++ 01:08:33 imo it's better to have an obscure skill than a common, fashionable one 01:08:38 Fiora: I did some SSE optimization at a startup in SV once! 01:08:45 cool :o 01:08:48 And I didn't even know anything about it before I started. 01:08:50 (unless it is really super obscure) 01:08:54 Most things don't need low-level optimisation 01:08:57 The ones that do, get it 01:09:05 i can always rely on FreeFull for the tautologies 01:09:05 (I still don't know much about it. But I was reasonably successful in the thing I was doing!) 01:09:12 right, and most programmers can't do low-level optimisation, which means that the ones who can will get paid a lot 01:09:20 > True == True 01:09:20 True 01:09:26 and that's why fiora has enough money to finance her rap career 01:09:30 -_- 01:09:46 I... really maybe it's easier if you can like, "market your skills" or something? 01:09:56 Fiora: i mean your low-level skills are probably roughly a billion times more employable than my functional programming skills :V 01:10:02 Isn't that supposed to finance itself? 01:10:04 there are like 10 haskell jobs 01:10:15 more like 10.............hundred 01:10:27 1000 isn't too bad 01:10:36 but as bike knows from the other day that (combined with well, the vast gap in competence), that kind of thing is the difference between me and someone like 0xabad1dea 01:10:57 i'm p. mad at 0xabad1dea 01:11:17 because i came up with that hexadecimal string all on my own and then i looked it up and it was someone's username 01:11:20 lool 01:11:30 (context: a week or few ago I finally stumbled upon her page and was like /oh my gosh there is someone else who tries to do the whole "let's combine girliness and total assembly geekery" thing/ 01:11:32 0xfacebeef 01:11:47 and then I quickly discovered "oh my gosh I am so completely, vastly, categorically inferior to this person") 01:11:52 -_- 01:12:01 Fiora: you say that about everybody 01:12:09 so imo don't listen to yourself hth 01:12:10 itt: fuck impostor syndrome 01:12:12 and then you realized it was actually a page you wrote 01:12:40 impostor syndrome ;_; 01:12:41 meanwhile: saddest personal realisation from the whole prism affair: libertarians have soured me to anti-authoritarianism 01:12:41 not to be like "this is you" but i read this article today https://medium.com/tech-talk/bdae04e46ec5 01:12:47 it's kind of hard to not listen to yourself 01:13:01 yeah, you get used to it though 01:13:06 Phantom_Hoover: :( i may have the same realization just now 01:13:13 especially if you get a psychiatrist or whatever (NOT RELEVANT TO FIORA WARNING) 01:13:39 and yeah i had that same feeling about libertarians, luckily i'm annoyed at maoists now instead 01:13:40 I guess it is really important to distinguish "against current authorities" from "against the existence of any authorities in any form" 01:13:45 Fiora: imo listen to Bike instead 01:13:48 it's their damn rhetoric 01:14:18 kmc's article seems pretty good 01:14:34 "In my head I held a definition of a good programmer, and I didn’t fit it. My repertoire of keyboard shortcuts was relatively pathetic. I was not a fount of esoteric details of various programming languages." hehhhhh i know that feeling 01:14:43 instead of listening to myself i listen to Bike 01:15:16 kmc: i don't think that's necessarily the distinction you need to put hating libertarians in a different category 01:15:20 Fiora: i can tell you as someone who has interviewed a lot of programmers that if I saw http://fiorasm.tumblr.com/ i would be like "we must talk to this person now" 01:15:30 like, non-ancap anarchists aren't the same thing as libertarians 01:15:35 kmc: http://i.imgur.com/pQ6RWVf.png this is how I feel after glancing at her chart 01:15:49 not just because you know SSE minutae but because you clearly can think, refine ideas, get them working, and then explain them 01:15:58 Fiora: :/ 01:16:16 I guess I would say that even a tiny overlap between "what you know" and "things that matter" is enough for a fulfilling career 01:16:18 trust me 01:16:26 other people don't know shit about things that matter 01:16:30 i mean obviously, nobody knows more than a tiny fraction of things 01:16:34 thus is the modern world 01:16:53 oerjan knows everything 01:17:07 I guess, it's more like, "oh yay my wonderful autistic brain has collected a vast quantity of useless information, so it looks like I ~know things~" 01:17:20 man i have the same feeling and i'm allistic 01:17:27 "i'm not smart, i just read a lot" 01:17:32 * pikhq follows up with Google recruiter 01:17:36 god damn impostor syndrome 01:17:37 "i'm not smart, i just know a ton of useless trivia" 01:17:45 this is one of the reasons why I hate Hacker News and kin so much 01:17:49 also with the imposter syndrome there's like 01:17:51 they argue all the time about who's a Real Programmer 01:17:59 Fiora: well do you think i'm smart 01:18:14 kmc: the answer is i'm a real programmer and nobody else is, hope this helps 01:18:20 also, i'm a real person and nobody else is. solipsism life 01:18:22 "okay, I accept that I'm good at assembly, I accept that I'm actually really good at this stuff, but I feel like I'm awful at everything outside of a super super narrow sphere, and when I try to venture out of it, I'm not completely incapable, but I feel really crappy" 01:18:26 *really crappy at it 01:18:59 yeah 01:19:03 learning = failing 01:19:07 repeatedly 01:19:14 well uh, i guess i'd say there are ways to acknowledge that you're feeling something other than saying "this feeling reflects reality" 01:19:17 it's tough 01:19:21 kmc, that article was a bit frustrating because i'm probably more familiar with the slightly different brand of impostor syndrome you get in maths 01:19:27 that's a really good article though... thanks 01:19:31 i don't have any sage advice on how to get past the "failing repeatedly" stage of learning 01:19:49 kmc: fortunately failing repeatedly is a p. good way to get past it 01:19:58 is it, though 01:20:12 Phantom_Hoover: interesting, what's the key difference do you think 01:20:17 hmm 01:20:21 The imposter syndrome thing really does suck. 01:20:29 Especially when combined with depression. 01:20:34 well it seems like in computing you're comparing yourself more to this abstract image of The Real Programmer 01:20:49 hey kmc did i ever mention you should read those books by keith johnstone 01:20:54 i think so 01:21:01 _Impro_ and also _Impro For Storytellers_ 01:21:05 whereas with maths you have all these big legendary figures and are constantly comparing yourself to them 01:21:37 we have those in programming too, although the lists of people are often hilariously weird 01:21:43 it's like, whenever I venture out of my little bubble, I find myself endlessly asking questions of people trying to figure out a codebase or something 01:21:48 and I feel like I'm contributing nearly nothing at all 01:21:55 while they go and do their whole thing without constantly asking questions of everyone else 01:21:56 like on HN i saw Mark Zuckerberg and ESR in the same list as Ken Thompson and Donald Knuth 01:21:58 i think in programming it's probably not as... codified? and mythic 01:21:59 and they just figure it out 01:22:01 'heroes' 01:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: fair 01:22:16 kmc: *blink* 01:22:25 Phantom_Hoover: i constantly compare myself to conor mcbride, hth 01:22:31 also maths is probably even worse than programming as far as the "you will do your best work before the age of 30" 01:22:36 yep 01:22:36 which is scary 01:22:42 I,I i constantly compare myself to conor mcbride and find myself inferior 01:22:46 the comparisons go like this: am I as good as conor mcbride yet -> haha no -> welp 01:22:50 (That's because Conor McBride is the best.) 01:22:57 elliott: please express this as a flowchart 01:23:04 shachaf: you could say the comparison is... constant 01:23:08 because it always has the same result, see 01:23:31 elliott: is the joke that "constantly" means "all the time" and also "always has the same result (like a constant function)" and they're the same word 01:23:37 yes 01:23:38 i think that might be the joke but just clarifying 01:23:38 " I felt saying something stupid would be representative of my gender" this -feeling- 01:23:39 btw i too have these insecurities 01:24:08 for me it's largely about the fact that I can make all these cute little toy demos of whatever, but I'm less sure that I can work productively on something big and important 01:24:10 (also when playing games: oh gosh you can't be bad at this game fiora or else you're going to uphold stereotypes!!!!! no brain shut up shut up shut up shut up oops I died) 01:24:52 Fiora: i'm p. bad at asking questions about things and imo asking questions should be encouraged 01:25:17 wat 01:25:23 oh 01:25:36 like I'm reasonably sure that I know more technical stuff than the average web startup person but I think/worry that the average web startup person is better at Getting Shit Done and, like, shipping working code 01:25:59 yeah but like... I only ask them because I literally have no idea what to do next and I'm lost and don't get things 01:26:07 and the alternative is sitting there doing nothing until my boss asks what I'm doing 01:26:11 kmc: half of your blog posts involve python so i can assure you you are not as uselessly perfectionist as me 01:26:17 also because asking questions over skype is easier than in person 01:26:19 all your blog posts are in @ 01:26:38 kmc: i compromise to haskell on a good day 01:26:38 Fiora: That's OK? 01:26:49 Fiora: Understanding a big codebase properly always takes time as far as I know. 01:27:22 yeah but like I feel like it never gets any better, and everyone else figures it out 01:27:51 you're wrong hth 01:28:02 ... I guess... 01:28:10 The other half of this syndrome thing is assuming that other people have things figured out. 01:28:41 shachaf: do you remember being a kid and thinking that adults know what they're doing 01:28:57 kmc: and now i'm old and i know what i'm doing!!!!!!! 01:29:01 yeah sure 01:30:31 did i link that terrifying ronson article that demonstrates that the cia have no idea what they're doing 01:32:20 imo finding out that particular people who you thought you knew what they were doing have no idea what they're doing is a p. good experience 01:33:32 sorry, I really shouldn't dump all this here like this anyways 01:33:55 it's not like you're swamping anything very worthwhile 01:33:59 isn't that what it's for 01:34:13 (it's traditional to get drunk first i think but not obligatory) 01:34:16 "yeah let's get back to talking about brainfuck" 01:34:23 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:41 hmm 01:34:50 anyway i wanted to say: I probably have a skewed perspective on this since i'm literally mentally unsound and my thinking is quite often demonstratably out of tune with reality 01:34:52 Sgeo_ said he was making a brainfuck equivalent in @tell 01:34:53 and that's that 01:35:13 Bike: that is because you are a bicycle 01:35:14 I don't know if I'm mentally unsound, really 01:35:24 yeah i don't mean that as pertaining to you 01:35:24 they were not meant to function in human society 01:35:32 Phantom_Hoover, >.> 01:35:39 a high powered mutant of some kind never intended for mass production 01:35:44 I just mean I've never really checked 01:35:48 elliott: fuck you man i'll do whatever i fucking well please *runs you over w/ my tires* 01:35:51 though I know I'm probably an anxious autistic wreck so 01:35:51 Technically it's equivalent to a subset of BF 01:35:59 Bike: you're not, like... a car 01:35:59 Fiora: i didn't mean to imply you were insane sorry 01:36:02 bicycle wheels are not scary 01:36:03 ??? 01:36:06 you didn't at all 01:36:14 elliott: yeah it's... not that effective... but bike power 01:36:16 Fiora: ok cool 01:36:20 you are fine gosh 01:36:32 i'm confused 01:37:14 oerjan knows everything <-- * swat -----### 01:37:26 Phantom_Hoover: stop that 01:37:39 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:38:07 ok i'm not confused 01:38:36 good 01:43:00 am i mentally unsound y/n 01:43:06 y 01:43:18 Fiora: Anxious autistic wreck? That's fun times! 01:44:04 i have a secret weapon against being unhappy which is that i tend to be optimistic about things all the time 01:44:25 have you noticed that everything is terrible and nothing good is happening though 01:44:31 i tend to notice that part 01:44:39 no 01:44:52 from my perspective lots of good things are happening hth 01:44:59 also lots of terrible things 01:45:06 but oh well 01:45:14 even when everything is terrible i'm still optimistic 01:45:23 does that make me mentally unsound............. 01:45:52 yes but in a metastable way 01:46:31 whoah 01:46:39 ? 01:46:41 oerjan's metaturing quote isn't in the quotes? 01:46:46 `pastlog metaturing 01:47:17 No output. 01:47:27 :O 01:47:32 maybe i just imagined the quote 01:47:33 `pastlog meta-turing 01:47:42 2011-07-14.txt:07:43:47: meta-turing-complete, too! 01:48:01 `pastelog meta-turing 01:48:05 blowing my mind 01:48:17 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17625 01:48:55 it's not there either... 01:48:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:49:13 maybe i just came up with the pun myself and i was so disgusted with myself i projected its creation onto oerjan 01:49:15 `pastlogs meta.*turing 01:49:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 01:49:22 `pastelogs meta.*turing 01:49:22 what if it was actually Metang 01:49:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11165 01:49:42 "So, how 'bout them Turing machines, eh? Never know when they're gonna stop." 01:50:04 is that from a sitcom about computer scientists 01:50:11 sort of 01:50:43 in that it's from my life 01:50:47 oh, i also had a horrible experience today 01:50:56 `quote turing 01:50:58 70) I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love \ 201) ah yes, indeed, alan turing was gay and stupid \ 362) i never meta turing. he died before i was born. \ 363) oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJA 01:51:01 kmc: often you do know 01:51:26 i was in the pub with a postgrad and someone doing some sort of research work and they both said they loved the big bang theory 01:51:39 :( 01:51:45 did you get in a bar fight 01:51:58 Bike: is that something to do with lawyers 01:51:59 i hear it got better or something 01:52:10 hm i think they call it a lawsuit 01:52:13 Is mayonnaise an instrument? 01:52:21 what 01:52:21 yes 01:52:26 he's quoting 01:52:34 Phantom_Hoover, my gf loves The Big Bang Theory 01:52:45 is she the one that did that stupid thing 01:53:01 err? 01:53:09 (i can't tell because i think all i know about the women in your life is from anecdotes of them being stupid) 01:53:12 Is _The Big Bang Theory_ as bad as it sounds by reading about it on IRC? 01:53:15 i'm the one that did that stupid thing 01:53:18 shachaf: it's pretty bad 01:53:18 ergo i am sgeo's gf 01:53:19 shachaf, worse 01:53:23 Phantom_Hoover: it was with a space hth 01:53:31 kmc, what did they add actual characters to it or something 01:53:45 i watched a fair amount of the show and laughed and then one day I realized I hated myself for it and was wasting my life 01:53:56 hey kmc you should read that book hth 01:54:06 maybe you can read my copy when you come to sf 01:54:09 say what you will about Chuck Lorre but he is pretty good at his job 01:54:13 shachaf, have you ever read anything by banks btw 01:54:13 hey shachaf you should read the view from the left hth 01:54:20 kmc, so, finding something enjoyable is wasting your life? 01:54:22 Phantom_Hoover: Nope. 01:54:32 read some banks you fuck 01:54:34 Sgeo_: no 01:54:54 help 01:54:54 Sgeo_, yes e.g. if that thing is masturbating or something 01:54:58 how do i get an email address 01:55:14 you need to ask the government or something 01:55:27 Electronic mail? That sounds dangerous. 01:55:59 `pastelogs shachaf.*sounds dangerous 01:56:14 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3017 01:56:32 i probably shouldn't actually make claims about wasting one's life 01:56:33 apparently ehird@gmail.com is too short to get 01:56:33 maybe i should quit saying that 01:56:37 i bet you used to be able to get ones that short 01:56:45 Nope. 01:56:52 let me restrict my claim to the idea that there is plenty of pop culture media that doesn't make me hate myself and I should watch that instead 01:56:53 I tried signing up for sgeo@gmail.com, it was too short 01:56:53 are you sure 01:56:55 i got a gmail in 2004 01:56:59 So did I. 01:57:00 i bet it was allowed then 01:57:02 darn 01:57:03 It was 6 characters. 01:57:05 which one did you try to get 01:57:07 was it shachaf@ 01:57:07 > length "shachaf" 01:57:10 7 01:57:17 I remember people were complaining. 01:57:19 sgeoster@gmail.com worked fine 01:57:33 i think i own elliott.hird@gmail.com from roughly five billion years ago 01:57:36 maybe i could repurpose that 01:57:38 but it's kind of long and ugh 01:57:48 are you signing up for EVE Online 01:57:54 let's say yes 01:58:02 How about penguin.of.the.gods 01:58:05 that's p. short 01:58:32 does elliott need a serious email address or something 01:58:39 Gmail is different. Here's what you need to know. 01:58:43 5/8/04 01:58:54 (that date is in americanese btw) 01:59:12 Phantom_Hoover: how about phantomhoover@gmail.com 01:59:15 serious enough?? 01:59:17 remember how it was announced on mar 31 01:59:25 and no one believed that you would actually get 1gb 01:59:54 haha that was awesome 02:00:10 guys i was 8 when gmail launched 02:00:10 fyi 02:00:20 ...apparently "is mayonnaise an instrument" comes from Spongebob 02:00:21 yeah well you learned haskell when you like negative three 02:00:28 11 actually 02:00:31 I was just taking it off the tags of a reddit blogpost 02:00:40 elliott and I joined #haskell within a week of each other. 02:01:17 and what a week it was 02:02:30 elliott: how about: elliott.t.hird 02:02:41 elliott the third 02:02:42 elliott.third 02:02:45 is your middle name "t" 02:02:49 i dont have a middle name 02:02:52 elliott.t.third 02:03:00 hey are google apps things still awful 02:03:02 outdo elliottt at his own game 02:03:03 elliott: OVERRULED 02:03:06 how do you not have a middle name 02:03:07 like do they still get old versions of everything 02:03:18 I don't have a middle name! 02:03:24 Middle names are the devil. 02:03:26 also is there any email service that doesn't give my emails to the NSA 02:03:29 you're from foreignland! 02:03:29 yeah but you're likwe welsh shachaf 02:03:34 or do i have to run qmail if i want e.g. basic privacy 02:03:35 doesn't count 02:03:53 elliott: you don't get basic privacy sorry 02:04:16 it's advanced privacy or no privacy 02:04:30 elliott: how about sargetron@gmail.com 02:04:38 what's qmail do to be secure 02:04:46 because it's not like the NSA's even trying to read content 02:04:52 Looks like it's taken. 02:05:08 oh man wikipedia has Qmail#Controversy 02:05:10 i'm pumped for this. 02:05:23 Bike: it's djb 02:05:36 i just picked qmail out of a hat btw 02:05:43 twist: the hat only had qmail in it 02:05:53 well i mean i don't know what djb's doing 02:06:00 the question is where did you pull the hat out of...... 02:06:10 Bike: he's... existing 02:06:38 lol someone's ddosing github apparently 02:07:03 https://status.github.com/ 02:07:11 but why 02:07:36 who the hell knows 02:07:38 To Be A Douche 02:08:56 zomg stat us dot github dot com 02:09:03 you're not even a file 02:09:06 how can i stat you 02:09:17 httpsfs hth 02:10:32 Sgeo_: I think there's a lot more to enjoying comedy than just whether you are laughing in the moment 02:10:39 ==kmc 02:10:55 kmc, hmm.. such as? 02:11:12 it's like saying that food is enjoyable if it makes you not hungry anymore 02:11:33 that reminds me of the most depressing thing i've heard in the last week 02:11:38 laughter is a basic automatic response and that's why the cheap tricks of the mainstream sitcom are so effective 02:11:44 I think people tend to "enjoy" bad comedy as long as they're laughing, though. Much more than bad instances of other, uh, genres. 02:11:45 Bike: way to sell your next statement 02:11:53 Most comedy is bad. 02:12:00 Sgeo_: whether it's clever, whether it makes me think, whether I think about it later and quote it to friends and such 02:12:01 well i don't really need to actually say the thing 02:12:03 kmc: Also you should read what _Impro_ says about comedy! 02:12:30 Also about teaching, and status/interaction, and creativity/spontaneity, and storytelling, and other things. 02:12:47 cool 02:13:56 i don't mean to imply that 'good' comedy must be complicated and highbrow 02:14:14 or that laughter isn't necessary -- just that it's not sufficient 02:14:52 the latest season of Community had a lot of attempts at fancy cleverness that just... weren't funny 02:14:54 Sure. 02:15:12 but now they are bringing back the original creater / showrunner, who they fired after season 3 02:15:28 omg they are? 02:15:30 which is roughly unprecedented in the history of television 02:15:40 best news ever 02:15:41 yes http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/arts/television/dan-harmon-will-return-to-nbcs-community.html?_r=0 02:16:00 hey kmc why do i still look at news.ycombinator.com 02:16:10 don't hth 02:16:14 b/c you are mentally unsound 02:16:30 hm good points, both of you 02:16:32 now we will see whether the 4th season drop in quality was really caused by his departure 02:16:39 what's a good thing to look at 02:16:46 although I think people wouldn't have been nearly as harsh if they hadn't known about that 02:16:49 shachaf: twitter 02:17:08 Hmm. 02:17:25 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:17:28 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:17:33 03:11:12 it's like saying that food is enjoyable if it makes you not hungry anymore 02:17:42 kmc: i hope you realise how totally ineffective this argument is to sgeo... 02:17:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:17:47 fuc k 02:17:48 kmc's analogy is suspect 02:17:54 there were definitely huge differences in quality in the first 3 seasons as well 02:17:54 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:17:57 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:17:57 elliott: heh 02:18:08 Maybe it's more like saying that food is enjoyable if it's incredibly sweet or something. 02:18:17 Well, that's not really any good an analogy. 02:18:28 random thought: i'd like the average math paper a lot more if whenever they constructed some definition they'd include a relatively simple thing or two that isn't in the definition 02:18:32 there i said a thing. 02:18:49 you mean an example of what doesn't satisfy the axioms? 02:18:51 recently i saw a link to https://lobste.rs, i don't know if it is better or worse than HN/proggit 02:18:58 elliott: omg me too 02:19:03 maybe https://lobste.rs/s/bkeYe9/about_lobsters is a more useful link 02:19:06 kmc: we'r cool 02:19:16 kmc: yeah. in this case i'm wondering if lambert fits as an elementary function or not. 02:19:23 maybe i'm just: bad at math 02:19:31 Bike: aren't we all :'( 02:19:39 well at least i am 02:19:42 am i? 02:19:52 I mean i have the definition "I should be able to derive it right" 02:19:53 i don't even know 02:20:40 proving a function to be non-elementary sounds... hard 02:20:41 elliott: interesting 02:20:46 yeah there's that too 02:20:59 it seems like it does nothing to combat the fundamental issue of it will be shitty in a few years 02:21:09 i guess proving something doesn't fit a definition is probably harder than proving it does 02:21:14 if there's no obvious anti-definition anyway 02:21:14 disappointed that they don't say anything about how they will prevent pervasive sexism and other HN social problems 02:21:20 technical solutions yaaaaay 02:21:28 let alone making up your own not-defined-thingie 02:21:28 probably they don't care 02:21:43 "The Lambert W relation cannot be expressed in terms of elementary functions. " well, ok, wikipedia to the rescue i guess. 02:22:08 it could well be that there's just no illuminating proof of that though 02:22:15 i like how you have to express the derivatives and antiderivatives of this thing in terms of itself though 02:22:33 Phantom_Hoover: well it's also sort of the point of the paper i'm reading (showing erf isn't elementary) sooooo maybe i should just keep reading. 02:22:41 "elementary functions" is kind of arbitrary. :-( 02:22:57 oh, the paper has its own rigid definition of course. 02:23:42 kmc: imo start kmc news 02:23:46 kmc: the front page of that site looks... almost exactly the same as HN's o_O 02:23:48 like, the same stories 02:23:49 kmc: where you email me a bunch of links every week 02:23:55 and maybe other people too 02:24:09 elliott: it's called https://twitter.com/miuaf hth 02:24:30 https://lobste.rs/t/haskell clearly terrible 02:24:46 clever and informative 02:25:01 what's on hn these days anyway (thanks fiora for letting me check this thing instead of hn to learn this) 02:25:11 Allism. 02:25:12 shit 02:25:25 Allistic feces. 02:25:27 7 Agile Node.js Startup Tricks That Prove Men Are Superior 02:25:28 Bike: what are you checking/learning 02:25:33 lobsters 02:25:36 I think right now it's like 90% discussions about PRISM? 02:25:39 kmc: 5 Mains That Aren't Usually Functions 02:25:43 and 10% about apple or something 02:25:47 1. mains power 02:25:52 2. US state Maine 02:25:57 did apple do something 02:26:01 WWDC, I think? 02:26:01 released some products 02:26:04 can anyone helps me think of 3 more 02:26:05 naturally it's the CNN front page story 02:26:11 elliott: haskell main!!!!!!!! 02:26:13 Bike: they gave up on cats 02:26:18 no! 02:26:18 kmc: ok that can be number 5 02:26:23 is it just me or like 02:26:25 what's 3 and 4 02:26:32 whenever I see WWDC, I think "what would jesus do" but like with the different last two words 02:26:33 Manes 02:26:36 of lions and stuff 02:26:37 me too Fiora 02:26:39 Fiora: yes me too 02:26:43 what would jobs do 02:26:49 Bike: ok great 02:26:50 1. mains power 02:26:51 Everyone knows the new iPhone Pi is the most important thing since the cure for cancer. 02:26:53 2. US state Maine 02:26:56 3. manes 02:26:57 4. ??? 02:27:00 5. haskell main 02:27:05 we just need one more and we can post it to cracked 02:27:09 What Would Do Cook 02:27:11 Mein Gott 02:27:17 great 02:27:25 no 02:27:26 mayans 02:27:35 that's good too 02:27:36 oh ph's is better and even worse a mispronounciantion 02:27:41 wow awesome spelling 02:28:07 what about power mains 02:28:13 03:26:50 1. mains power 02:28:16 oh 02:28:23 "Mozilla, Reddit, 4Chan join coalition of 86 groups asking Congress to end NSA surveillance" 02:28:28 well if 4chan asked for it... 02:28:29 lol 02:28:33 haha 02:28:37 * Fiora goes back to playing more class of heroes 02:28:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:47 Class of what 02:28:53 set of heroes 02:28:58 proper class of heroes 02:29:02 set of all heroes that do not contain themselves 02:29:03 Her 02:29:08 Category of small heroes. 02:29:09 Yuusha no kurasu 02:29:09 "Her?" 02:29:18 [[ 02:29:19 Makes me pleased to use Firefox over Chrome. 02:29:19 Google = makes money from data collection and supports PRISM. 02:29:19 Mozilla = open source foundation supporting Congress ending PRISM. 02:29:19 We should all support companies and products which are against PRISM. 02:29:22 ]] 02:29:27 haha welp 02:29:30 why am i reading the comments on this article 02:29:38 kmc: the category of Heroes 02:29:38 i wonder if they know where mozilla's money comes from 02:29:45 elliott: Because you are self-injurious. 02:29:48 Probably gnomes 02:29:52 it's still better but.... 02:30:10 kmc: it's open source they don't need money 02:30:27 So, have a regex: /e([ck]+s*[sc]|[ck]*xs*c?)ers*[sc]i[sz]+e/ 02:30:29 profit-free organization 02:30:30 their only source of outcome is paying kmc to hack on rust 02:30:34 kmc: is there a good email client 02:30:41 elliott: no hth 02:30:43 I wonder how many words satisfying that regex have ever been used in an honest attempt to spell the word "exercise". 02:30:47 elliott: Mail.app hth 02:31:20 tswett: there's infinite possible strings and people have only used a finite set of them, so obviously it's neglible. 02:31:39 So the answer is "finitely many". 02:32:14 elliott: My experience suggests there is exactly one. 02:32:20 It is named netcat. 02:32:33 HELO 02:32:35 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:33:02 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:33:28 that does not sound good 02:33:49 HELO THIS IS DOG 02:33:50 oh, it's just a PSP dungeon crawler game thing <.< 02:34:08 PSP: a kind of drugz?? 02:34:27 -!- Bike__ has joined. 02:34:36 radio one anti nazi mix 02:34:41 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:34:43 -!- Bike__ has changed nick to Bike. 02:35:08 what 02:35:18 mars needs women 02:35:46 250 EHLO DOG THIS IS SMTP 02:35:51 it's an electronic device ._. 02:37:07 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:39:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:39:22 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:39:22 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:39:30 elliott: main street hth 02:39:37 -!- Bike has joined. 02:39:41 oerjan: good one 02:39:45 not as good as mayans 02:39:49 Bike: your connection... 02:39:58 yes 02:42:24 I love the term "controlled flight into terrain". 02:42:56 yes 02:43:04 it's bad times 02:43:13 elliott: mayonnaise hth 02:43:18 does that mean what it sounds like 02:43:31 A rather low-key term for a rather undesirable event. 02:43:50 Main unter Frankfurt 02:44:22 Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) describes an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, water, or an obstacle. 02:44:29 i was thinking it might be only for intentional cases 02:44:59 According to this paper, h such that h(z)⁵cos(log(z)) + h(z)³tan(exp(z) + sin⁻¹(z)) + 7 = 0 is an elementary function in some domains. That's pretty cool. 02:46:55 6. domain 02:47:11 oh damn, you're right. 02:47:26 elliott: ↑!! 02:47:34 mundane domain 02:47:49 7. maintainer 02:47:58 8. mainframe 02:48:11 9. remain 02:48:29 10. mainstream 02:48:31 "thx grep" 02:48:54 Bike: what does "in some domains" mean here? 02:50:12 oh, just local soltions to that 02:50:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic help 02:55:14 That's an interesting word: "castrophony" 02:55:50 I assume it's a blend of "catastrophe" and "cacophony". 03:04:37 You should ask zzo about linear logic. 03:05:51 zzo: hey, would you mind helping me with linear logic once you get back? It seems like there ought to be some good metaphor for it. 03:06:16 kmc: You know the thing where you apt-get install a program and then it gets marked as automatically installed without asking and you get annoyed? 03:07:47 tswett, Freefall 03:09:19 no i don't 03:12:14 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:14:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:18:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:18:11 this is getting annoying :( 03:18:29 shachaf: Huh. Never happened to me. 03:21:42 i am wondering if this is the same kind of disconnection which i used to have on my old laptop, months back (but haven't had in a while) or if this is something win8 is causing... 03:22:21 one thing i note is that irssi is _not_ kept alive on the other side this time. oh well. 03:23:28 in other news, does anyone know if there is any way in IE 10 to add minor search alternatives like esolang or wiktionary, or if you really only can add things that are in microsoft's gallery 03:24:26 i recall IE 8 _tried_ to send you to the gallery but had a way to get to the suggestions on the current website. now i don't see that anywhere. 03:25:14 kmc: when i misspeak like that sometimes i feel like a complete idiot and how could i possibly have said that thing and then i apologize a lot and so on to make sure everyone knows i'm fully aware how wrong i was 03:25:27 * oerjan managed to add wikipedia but had to change gallery to avoid getting just the norwegian one 03:25:28 i don't know if you're doing that but from the outside it probably seems much more minor than from the inside 03:25:32 or maybe not. i don't really know 03:26:02 yeah 03:26:04 it's all right though 03:27:18 hey this "source code" film is actually really good 03:27:20 other things people do (but i don't so much?): attack the thing they just said, repeatedly mention how idiotic it would be to think it 03:27:48 and then people in the audience get upset because they were thinking it 03:29:09 source code was pretty cool 03:36:01 oerjan: btw i suggest switching from win8 hth 03:36:20 i don't know what kmc is apologising for, help 03:36:24 i don't even see an apology 03:36:55 win8 makes no sense to me 03:39:08 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:39:58 shachaf does this thing where he talks in one channel about happenings in another channel without giving any context 03:40:01 hth 03:41:05 is this ##crypto again 03:44:02 Yes. 03:45:49 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:46:54 elliott: not me 03:47:40 How do I ask irssi who has the most channels in common with me? 03:48:36 The most I can find is 10. 03:48:49 how do i see what channels someone is in? 03:49:16 kmc: let me introduce you to whois hth 03:49:23 /whois will tell you only the channels they have in common with you (unless they disable that, like ski) 03:49:42 But irssi keeps track of who's in what channel. 03:49:50 copumpkin: you should make agda's universe polymorphism not awful, thanks 03:50:11 what about existence polymorphism 03:50:18 or would that be existence monomorphism 03:52:18 wow ski is in a lot of "p. cool" channels 03:54:06 elliott: i whois'd you, did you see 03:54:57 kmc: no. im blind 03:56:24 kmc: (were you joking or) 03:57:16 i don't know 03:57:21 can you see when someone whois's you 03:57:31 shachaf is trying to confuse me with bogus CTCPs 03:57:37 i see through his knavish tricks 03:57:46 whois asks the server a question. ctcp is a message to the person 03:57:51 kmc: you can't 03:57:56 /whois nsa 03:57:57 HTH 03:58:42 no such agency 03:58:46 kmc isn't even responding to my ctcps 03:58:49 kind of rude 03:59:34 hi i am a bot 03:59:42 -!- sprocklem has joined. 03:59:59 I thought that was in response to me CTCPing shachaf for a second 04:02:10 If there was a notice of some sort, I should have noticed 04:04:14 elliott: hth 04:04:49 copumpkin: what did you do 04:04:56 nothing, hth 04:05:16 copumpkin: i think you will find it's still awful. tdh 04:05:27 (turducken hell) 04:05:27 tdn'th 04:05:37 elliott: how would you improve it? 04:05:45 hth 04:06:09 copumpkin: well when i use coq i don't think about universes at all and then i complete a definition and it gives me a universe consistency error and i have to start over 04:06:19 copumpkin: and i consider this preferable to having to think about universes every five seconds but not having problems in the end 04:20:04 I'm not a fan of magic, but I also hate that it pollutes my type sigs 04:20:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:21:24 well, at least Coq's magic is just fairly simple constraint solving 04:23:05 fiora, kmc: http://t.co/M0ClqSucMU this is kinda neat 04:23:59 Bike: subscribe me to the fiora-kmc list please (i like regehr.org too) (why did you use a url shortener) 04:24:41 because i got it off twitter, i've never even heard of regehr and know shit-all about type-punning or programming 04:26:01 (elliott: http://blog.regehr.org/archives/959 this is kinda neat hth) 04:27:47 -!- augur has joined. 04:31:58 i don't understand the type pun rules re: unions 04:32:23 i thought unions were the designated ok way to view the same bytes with different types 04:33:29 wikipedia thinks so 04:33:40 an expert source 04:33:47 there should be a language whose spec is explicitly what's on wikipedia 04:37:24 i mostly thought it was interesting that it knew memcpy that well, i guess. 04:38:01 my friend had another point re: impostor syndrome, which is that there's a game equilibrium aspect 04:38:16 if everyone around you is saying how bad and dumb they are, you have to say it too or else you seem arrogant (to yourself and others) 04:38:36 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:22 at caltech there were a lot of conversations where everyone was kind of bragging about how dumb they are and how they were failing all their classes 04:39:33 interestingly i've heard this doesn't happen at MIT 04:42:03 that would handily explain why grad students are mostly fucking wrecks 04:42:51 that's just down to the wreckophilia Bike 04:43:17 wow it took me like four whole seconds to understand wtf you just said. 04:46:27 that is commom 04:46:34 common 04:51:52 Bike: how many words rhyme with bike 04:52:17 Six 04:52:32 list them 04:53:14 Trike, bike, [ethnic slur], psych, Mike, like 04:54:27 you missed at least one, sorry 04:54:42 That's the slur, hth. 04:54:55 no 04:54:58 it's a different slur! 04:57:27 ther'es only one slur 04:57:38 deep 05:07:21 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:13:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:46:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:54:52 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:55:03 `olist 893 05:55:04 olist 893: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 05:55:40 -!- shachaf has quit (Client Quit). 06:00:17 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:06 -!- shachaf has joined. 06:17:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:20:29 is there a list of which foolists are what 06:20:51 `listlist 06:20:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: listlist: not found 06:21:54 `run ls bin/*list* 06:21:56 bin/emptylist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/pbflistdeluxe \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 06:22:49 emptylist is empty. list is a list people of who've run list. makelist presumably makes a list. olist is Order of the Stick. pbflist is Perry Bible Fellowship. pbflistdeluxe is also perrybiblefellowship, but much better. slist is MS Pain Adventures. smlist is Super Mega Comics. 06:23:49 run cat bin/emptylist 06:23:54 `run cat bin/emptylist 06:23:56 echo -n "$(basename "$0"): "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 06:24:00 `run head -n1 bin/olist 06:24:01 echo -n "$(basename "$0")${@:+ }$@: "; tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 06:24:35 `run sed -i 's/:/${@:+ }$@:/' bin/emptylist 06:24:39 No output. 06:24:40 `emptylist 06:24:41 emptylist: 06:24:42 `emptylist hi 06:24:44 emptylist hi: 06:26:37 Hmm, there should be a c.b.miuaf update list. 06:26:47 Last update was in Dec, though... 06:27:11 yes 06:27:14 i should make some more things 06:30:17 everyone is moving to ca 06:51:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:53:08 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:39 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 07:05:42 is that so 07:09:15 well arkeet just did 07:50:35 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:56:00 kmc: what would it take to get a unicode codepoint named after me 07:56:53 good life goal 07:57:35 trying to figure out what counts 07:57:51 i think it has to be named after me, not just coïncide with my name 07:58:08 does it count if it's named after something which is named after someone 08:05:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:10:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:15:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 08:22:12 i hate it when i'm worrying about something and then I forget what specifically and it just leaves this diffuse feeling of worry that I can't even pretend to attack rationally 08:30:14 does this happen to anyone else 08:30:37 I once got a feeling that I ought to be depressed 08:30:46 And then felt guilty for being happy 08:31:11 that sucks 08:32:16 the life of a button 08:47:11 buh 09:10:57 `run echo blah blah blah blah | zalgo 09:11:00 bͩ͠l̖͒a̷̛h̳͞ ͫ͘b̤͟l̶̷å̛h̉͝ ̦ͪb͔ͪl̨ͭa͇̝h̶͖ ͗͟b͔̕ḷ̕a͕͝h͙͘ 09:11:04 `run echo blah blah blah blah | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo | zalgo 09:11:09 b̛̟̭̺̺͍̖͕ͯ̑͗̽̄ͩ͆͠l็̸̨̙̮̜̲̗̍͐̉̀͢͟ͅͅa̫̞̣̯̰̯̍̒̈ͯͫͤ̓̅̐͠h̟͇̰̣͒̉ͣ͗́̿ͣͫ͊ͥ̇̕ ̨̛̫̦̜̼͔̞̰̐̌͂ͫ͜͝͞b͉̪̻̫̤͕̒̃͆҉̤̬͓̘ͭ̕l̞̥̦͖̞̳̊̏ͯ͛̉̍̒͘͜͝a̵͎̱̜̭̩̤͙̿ͮ͒̍͊̐̉҉h̸̟͍͈̞͓͇̙̥̏́͒͟҉̖͝ ̴̩̹̙̙͖̺ͫ́͐́̎̂́͊̕bͣ̀̆̎͝ͅ҉͔̠ 09:11:11 tmux++ 09:12:31 `list | zalgo 09:12:34 ais523 atriq Bike boily cuttlefish elliott fgrep Fiora fungot HackEgo metasepia monqy Ngevd nortti oklopol Phantom_Hoover pikhq quintopia Sgeo SUPREME_BUTT_SUI Taneb 09:12:40 `run list | zalgo 09:12:42 ȁ͍i̶͙s̟͚5̷̀2̭̱3̴̗ ̒̎a͖̚t̪ͩr͎̅i̙̚q̵̗ ͩͩB̰̑i̘̭k͌͂e̤̓ ͪ͜b̨͌o͕̦i̮̹l͎̔y͕ͬ ̺̃c͙̊u͎̍t́͏ṫ̼l̳̭é͙f̱̽ȋͯs̳͛h̄̈ ̜̋eͪ͘l͙̀l̯̂ï̍ŏ͌t̢̠t̨̬ ̥ͫfͦ͡g̭͇r̩̍ẹͬp̤̈ ̱ͨḞ̮ị̢o̧̓r̤̅a̪͙ ̉͠f̰̒u͍ͪn̂͋g͋̒o͏̜t̫͕ ̑͜Hͪ͘a̾͢c̝͌ḵ̅E̛͕gͪ̈́o͔͍ ̐̎ 09:12:51 In retrospect I should have done that in /msg 09:13:34 list? 09:13:38 oh right, list 09:13:39 @quote retrospect 09:13:39 monochrom says: in retrospect, it seems lisp designers were more interested in list processing than functional programming 09:18:51 -!- `0x00 has left. 09:21:22 shachaf, what's the convention for +1'ing something on libraries@ 09:23:16 I think you reply with the message "+1" or something weird like that. 09:23:18 I don't know. 09:23:37 `? atriq 09:23:39 atriq or two 09:24:21 if someone figured out a good solution to the problem that monad transformers are trying to solve, that would be the best thing 09:44:31 -!- nooga has joined. 09:56:30 -!- carado has joined. 10:08:17 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:24:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:26:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:29:40 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:29:48 -!- nooga has joined. 10:31:34 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:43:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:01 mnoqy: did you learn lens yet 11:03:39 `olist 11:03:41 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 11:04:00 #893 11:04:07 shachaf already `olist'd #893 11:04:55 shachaf: sorta? 11:05:06 mnoqy: do you understand profunctor lenslikes 11:05:22 im too tired to understand anything but probably? 11:05:24 i don't know the laws for them :'( do you know 11:05:35 i dont know their laws at least offhand 11:05:53 well i mean i want a compositionlike law 11:07:16 i remember reading what a profunctor is but then i forgot RIP 11:07:30 rip 11:07:35 actually i think shachaf even explained it to someone once? 11:07:41 ??????????????? 11:07:57 let me check 11:08:44 "as with most things" defn of profunctors depends on who you ask 11:08:55 um 11:09:00 you gotta ask a pro 11:09:02 obviously 11:09:30 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:09:38 A profunctor is simply a bifunctor that is contravariant in its first argument. 11:09:53 see thats the answer you get if you ask Taneb 11:09:58 but covariant in its second? 11:09:59 Taneb: are you a pro 11:10:10 shachaf, I have a hat 11:10:14 And some chocolate 11:10:18 Does that make me a pro 11:10:25 shachaf, oops i actually imagined this 11:10:26 RIP 11:10:34 The chocolate is in a cardboard box 11:10:40 The box is wearing the hat 11:12:35 ugh i feel like category theory but i'm being forced to do other dumb things 11:12:52 try not being forced to do other dumb things 11:12:57 ALT stick it to the man 11:13:12 ALT get someone to do stupid dumb things for you 11:13:16 ALT get someone to do category theory for you 11:14:12 ALT TWIST category theory is dumb things 11:14:21 good twist 11:14:37 shachaf, apparently i was thinking of you explaining CoYoneda to bike in april 11:16:36 what does coyoneda have to do with profunctors 11:16:51 mnoqy: was the twist actually good or did you mean bad twist when you said good twist 11:17:02 thatd be a good twist wouldnt it 11:17:02 because that would be a twist of its own(meta twist?) 11:17:17 i never meta twist i didn't eat 11:19:13 i wish i was as good as mnoqy at things 11:19:21 me too 11:19:23 mnoqy: how can i become as good as you (or better) 11:19:33 shachaf/mnoqy otp 11:19:47 `? otp 11:19:47 ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 11:19:48 otp? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 11:20:24 `run echo "only ten pounds" | wisdom/otp 11:20:26 Taneb.... 11:20:26 bash: wisdom/otp: No such file or directory 11:20:47 no worries, no worries 11:20:50 Taneb... 11:20:51 `pastelogs "Taneb..." 11:21:03 `run type -a sponge 11:21:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29240 11:21:06 bash: line 0: type: sponge: not found 11:21:29 `run echo 'cat > wisdom/otp' > wisdom/otp; chmod +x wisdom/otp 11:21:31 `run pastelogs "Taneb..." 11:21:33 No output. 11:21:34 `run echo "only ten pounds" | wisdom/otp 11:21:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31150 11:21:50 No output. 11:21:55 `? otp 11:21:56 ...bots in AW will no longer be free 11:21:57 only ten pounds 11:22:02 bah 11:22:07 Taneb, lern to regex 11:22:49 Sgeo_, for god's sake why do you still care 11:25:16 Sgeo_: Phantom_Hoover makes a very good point. 11:33:15 hey mnoqy 11:33:17 draw me a sheep 11:34:19 🐑 11:34:59 `run pastelogs "Taneb\.\.\." 11:35:09 `run pastelogs "Taneb\\.\\.\\." 11:35:21 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16794 11:35:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3067 11:36:27 `run pastelogs "Sgeo_*\\.\\.\\." 11:36:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17444 11:37:16 2013-04-11.txt:01:05:11: well yes hes picky about trivialities that much is obvious. those ui concerns are real but the underlying issue is that he --sgeo.............................................. 11:37:17 <- best one imo 11:41:04 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:58:40 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:10:38 Haha! 12:10:53 I forgot I had contributed to that kickstarter 12:11:30 Girl Genius and the Rats of Mechanicsburg 12:13:11 hmm 12:13:14 is girl genius bad 12:16:16 yes :( (note: i have only limited experience with it) 12:16:57 The comic has won five WCCA awards including 2008 Outstanding Comic, and been nominated for a Hugo Award for Best Professional Artist, an Eagle Award and twice for an Eisner Award; in 2009, 2010, and 2011 it won the Hugo Award for Best Graphic Story. 12:17:06 UM it sounds like THESE PEOPLE disagree with you 12:17:25 nb idk anything about this comic but its probably really bad and awful 12:18:41 wow this art style is amazing. i am digging these faces. 12:23:05 Phantom_Hoover, I enjoy it 12:23:46 nooodl: whats your experience with it...youve gotta compete with an "enjoying it" 12:24:02 i looked at the art 12:24:04 + the name 12:25:42 the name is lame and the subtitle is lame too but i cant belive you dont dig the art 12:26:15 i mean just look at this [latest comic] http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/ggmain/strips/ggmain20130612.jpg 12:28:09 what is it with the comic strip style where you 12:28:18 bold words in almost every sentence 12:28:21 why do they do it 12:28:32 good question 12:28:57 you know what i'm talking about right 12:29:09 yes 12:29:28 i always thought that was there to like 12:29:30 mark the intonation 12:30:04 but would you really stress that "NEED"? it's ridic. 12:30:11 so it's probably something else... 12:30:59 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoldInflation 12:42:46 -!- aloril_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:39 -!- aloril has joined. 12:48:57 -!- ASMK568 has joined. 12:48:58 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 12:48:58 -!- ASMK568 has left. 12:49:08 yes 12:58:41 -!- ASMK879 has joined. 12:58:42 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 12:58:42 -!- ASMK879 has left. 12:58:48 yes 12:59:28 no 12:59:43 thatd be rude taking peoples' friends 13:08:36 -!- ASMK574 has joined. 13:08:36 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 13:08:36 -!- ASMK574 has left. 13:08:45 yes 13:09:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:11:16 Hmm 13:11:25 What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:11:40 bad 13:12:10 i guess the question is: you need to slap some sort of tesselation down, so what will it be 13:12:13 octagons????????????????????? 13:12:24 I was thinking pentagons 13:12:55 hexhams? 13:13:01 hm whats the optimal--what--polygon 13:13:15 heptagons 13:13:20 mnoqy: triangles are the optimal polygone hth 13:13:28 i've seen heptagons done before, i think 13:13:30 i mean in general. not talkking about tesselation 13:13:34 just the best polygon 13:13:36 triangles 13:13:44 (i think "hyperrogue" does heptagons) 13:13:58 ((its a roguelike in hyperbolic plane, if u're uncultured)) 13:14:24 mnoqy: am i uncultured 13:14:29 i didn't know that but now i know it 13:15:50 p. sure everyone here is cultured now, as of that line 13:16:11 what if you were so uncultured to start with 13:16:15 you didn't even know how to read 13:17:05 -!- ASMK324 has joined. 13:17:05 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.me 13:17:06 -!- ASMK324 has left. 13:17:10 ~𝐩𝐥𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐰𝐢𝐬𝐭~ 13:17:11 :D 13:19:54 * itsy goes to join iBooter... 13:20:09 (i think "hyperrogue" does heptagons) 13:20:23 no it uses heptagons and hexagons iirc 13:20:29 oh both??? lame 13:20:39 its been a while since ive looked at it 13:20:40 yeah, i dunno why 13:20:52 what kind of tesseleation is that 13:20:55 more like a messelation 13:21:04 What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:21:05 uh 13:21:07 weird 13:21:21 assuming you're using the 5-square tiling 13:21:43 fortunately befunge never uses diagonal adjacency afaik so that avoids some awkward problems 13:22:02 ...yeah there are definitely hexagons in here with the heptagons wtf 13:22:40 hmm 13:22:43 is it this tiling: What would befunge look like on a hyperbolic plane 13:22:45 dammit 13:22:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uniform_tiling_73-t12.png 13:23:19 looks like it 13:24:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H2_tiling_24i-4.png ok 13:24:23 befunge on that tiling: bestfunge? 13:26:23 yiiiiikes 13:26:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H2chess_24ic.png the edges in this diagram are the set of straight lines for program execution 13:28:47 heh, i just realised all the white/black regions in that diagram are infinity-gons 13:29:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:38:40 man. what if: infinite-dimensional space, R^\infty, points are functions N -> R 13:38:52 i think we've tried that before 13:38:53 this probably already exists??? it's so boring 13:39:11 note that you're still only able to use a countable subspace 13:39:35 the obvious one is only allow finitely supported functions 13:40:04 countable subspace? 13:40:37 yeah 13:40:55 doesn't every total function N -> R define a point + aren't functions N -> R uncountable 13:41:13 ???? 13:41:15 yeah but you can only specify a countable number of those functions 13:41:22 almost all functions are uncomputable 13:41:43 oh that kinda "use" 13:41:44 yeah 13:41:44 oh by "define a point" you mean...yeah 13:42:21 (you mean, it'd be countable in the same way that the subset of R you can "use" is countable, right) 13:43:24 anyway the neat thing is you get points that are infinitely far from the origin, but are finite in all dimensions, like (1,1,1,1,...) 13:44:16 Q: what would the equation for a line be 13:44:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:44:56 a "line" in a vector spac is just a 1-dimensional subspace 13:45:04 heres an easy one 13:45:30 \{f : f(x) = 0 for all x > 0\} 13:45:34 oh man i was 13:45:35 typing that!! 13:45:55 also 13:45:55 wrt 13:45:57 nooodl, p + lv, where p and v are pretty much arbitrary vectors 13:46:05 06:43:24 anyway the neat thing is you get points that are infinitely far from the origin, but are finite in all dimensions, like (1,1,1,1,...) 13:46:14 not if you only allow finitely supported functions!!! 13:46:22 (imo a sane restriction) 13:46:34 imo insane + boring 13:46:56 Much like myself! 13:47:05 oh wow i just noticed i put \'s on my { and } 13:47:11 i almost wrote \forall too 13:47:17 to what have i come 13:47:20 also neat: there are non-finitely supported functions (btw thanks for teaching me this words) with a finite distance to the origin!! 13:47:41 like f(x) = 1 / sqrt(2^x) would have a norm of 2 13:47:53 um what norm are we using here 13:48:00 like uh | | thing 13:48:03 th e f hu uhh 13:48:08 distance to (0,0,0,0,...) 13:48:14 but which norm 13:48:33 (note: i'm dumb) which norms do i get to choose from 13:48:39 any norm you want 13:48:54 i calculated that using uh 13:49:18 |f| = \sqrt{ sum_{i=0}^\infty f(i)^2 } 13:49:18 i hear the "l2" norm is popular (smile) 13:49:38 "yes" 13:49:39 oh it'd have a norm of \sqrt 2 i guess 13:50:00 oh that's "euclidean norm" 13:50:01 wait 13:50:07 "l2 norm" 13:50:16 what's even the euclidean norm in infinite dimensions 13:50:24 "doesnt really exist sorry" 13:50:33 the closest thing to a sensible value i can think of for |(1,1,1,1,1,...)| is 1 13:50:57 for |(1,1,1,...)| it'd be infinite RIP 13:51:14 that probably makes this "not very euclidean" 13:51:31 as ph notes the l_\infty norm is "preferable" 13:51:56 but things still dont always have those norms 13:52:06 like the identity function wouldnt 13:52:07 so uh 13:52:15 how'd you calculate the l_\infty norm 13:52:20 idk 13:52:20 (i dont actually know of any norms for infinite dimensional spaces off hand) 13:52:35 but lim n^(1/n) = 1 13:52:42 nooodl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp_space 13:53:02 nooodl: its just the maximum of all the absolute values 13:53:09 oh, ofc., l_\infty is-- yep 13:53:19 i remember proving the groundwork for that in analysis 13:53:23 ooh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_space 13:53:45 i like how i invented this independently though!! 13:53:54 those are a thing yes 13:54:03 iv dealt with them like once 13:54:14 maybe twicE???? 13:54:17 who knows really 13:54:31 man i should Math more 13:54:55 something about you felt like category theorying 13:55:04 hmm yes 13:55:17 btw im going to be taking a category theory course in about 6 years 13:55:21 "isnt that great" 13:55:28 (university) 13:55:36 6 years? 13:55:41 why not sooner 13:55:51 alt. how do you know they offer cat theory (i dont know what university this is) 13:59:04 i don't think you do category theory in warwick until postgrad stuff but probably you can do it in 4th year 14:01:20 i guess it depends on the university as to how friendly they are about undergraduates taking graduate courses.........im just really used to it by now 14:04:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:05:05 http://i.imgur.com/qyMCRSJ.png 14:06:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:06:57 Categorietheorie 14:07:31 that's a "first year (master)" course which means i need a bachelor degree first which takes 3 years 14:07:50 so do they really not let you go out of sequence. laughs 14:07:53 and then of course there's one more year of "high school" before "university" even starts!! 14:08:14 :'[ 14:08:22 and i hear next year involves 14:08:32 integrals: but ONLY numerically 14:08:34 :-) 14:08:40 im weeping 14:08:44 and also circles and geometry and boring stuff 14:08:47 im weeping 14:08:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:09:27 integrals... but only numerically? 14:09:35 yeah 14:09:40 you mean you're not actually going to cover symbolic integration 14:09:43 nope 14:09:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:09:50 that's "university level" :') 14:09:57 wow 14:10:28 integration is for losers anyway though 14:10:48 last time i needed it was a probability course and i just used a computer algebra system to do all my integrals for me 14:11:08 i have done too many integrals this year 14:11:42 yeah i hate most of this stuff because 14:11:43 that was....a year ago.......and the last time i had needed them prior to that was..........gosh like 4 or 5 years ago 14:11:50 deriving functions manually is hell 14:12:06 deriving? OH you mean like calculus derivatives 14:12:15 and then the exam is no-calculator and you can't check it (yeah) and it's 14:13:11 heh heh (smirk) hm come to think of it i did some other "integral and derivatives stuff" last year but it was analysis so instead of doing computations it was analysis. 14:13:36 nooodl, wait, do they expect you to actually like... manually... numerically... integrate? 14:13:48 there are approximation techniques 14:13:51 :D 14:13:57 oh no the integration is gonna be done on a ti-84 14:14:12 hm and iv been seeing a bunch of "ends" recently which are notated like integrals 14:14:23 we have to know how to symbolically work out derivatives though 14:14:36 what's an "end" 14:14:41 derivatives are easy though 14:14:49 it's like a limit except instead of a cone you have a wedge 14:14:54 but square roots........ 14:14:59 the quotient rule is like the hardest thing you have to do 14:15:10 square roots are just 1/2sqrt(x) 14:15:10 also: but 2nd derivatives involving quotient rule ...................... 14:15:20 btw also good: 14:15:22 yes those are horrible 14:15:24 we didn't cover the chain rule 14:15:29 i 14:15:32 instead learning a bunch of extra formulae for 14:15:37 d/dx sqrt(f(x)) 14:15:39 :-))))) 14:15:55 nooodl: http://nlab.mathforge.org/nlab/show/end 14:16:38 so do ends end up being equivalent to integrals in some category 14:17:34 imo everyone should explain CT concepts as "in Set, it's this" 14:17:39 idk :[ idk what that would even mean 14:17:58 what are limits/colimits in Set even 14:18:22 (ps i don't know what CT (co-)limits are other than "they exist") 14:18:45 well see limits are actually equivalent to proper limits in... some category 14:19:21 limits are infima in preorder categories 14:19:28 likewise, colimits are suprema 14:19:38 whats goig on here 14:19:44 categories 14:19:45 hell if i know 14:19:48 fuk 14:22:07 nooodl: i dont know all the pedagogical tools for explaining most category theory things so all i can do is make bad jokes :( 14:22:24 this reminds me you haven't read my type theory joke 14:22:38 i bet its not as good as elliott's homotopy type theory joke 14:22:58 q: why do type theorists have trouble opening bags 14:23:09 a: they can't discern the bag from its zipper 14:23:15 :| 14:23:25 my homotopy type theory joke is fnatastic nooodl 14:23:26 have you heard it 14:23:28 no 14:23:31 01:34:11 joke: do you relate type-theoretic equality to the paths of homotopy theory, because you're pretty HoTT 14:23:42 good 14:24:29 what i want to know is, can you do all the stuff with ants and elastic bands and toruses in htt 14:24:55 Phantom_Hoover: there's work on doing homotopy theory in hott 14:25:11 that sounds incredibly funny 14:25:22 mnoqy: rate my joke please 14:25:35 nooodl: miserable 14:25:52 i'm offended 14:28:45 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:29:09 `relcome lambdabot 14:29:12 ​lambdabot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:30:43 :t absurd 14:30:43 Not in scope: `absurd' 14:30:47 :t _1 14:30:48 Not in scope: `_1' 14:30:53 > absurd 14:30:54 Not in scope: `absurd' 14:30:56 :( 14:31:59 > id 14:32:00 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) 14:32:00 arising from a use ... 14:32:07 > id :: Show a => a -> a 14:32:08 <() -> ()> 14:32:09 :( 14:43:40 Taneb: can't have lens/void until hashable bug is fixed 14:58:46 Does lambdabot do the monomorphism restriction thing too? 14:59:21 elliott: What hashable bug? 15:01:32 https://github.com/tibbe/hashable/issues/69 15:02:12 Oh, I see 15:02:36 Don't want to do it yourself locally for now? 15:04:32 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:12:02 -!- Bike has joined. 15:19:08 problem I just solved for #esoteric to guess at: what's the standard UNIX command for determining the modification time of a file, in a format that can be piped into other programs? 15:19:38 rmdir? 15:19:48 no 15:19:51 -!- itsy has joined. 15:19:55 I tried to get ls to work for ages, but it doesn't 15:19:56 Am I close? 15:20:11 the options to output machine-readable formats are mutually exclusive with the options to output dates 15:20:16 date works for mtime, at least 15:20:23 although not for atime or ctime, I guess you're meant to use perl for those 15:23:00 Taneb: how would it be rmdir? 15:23:06 FreeFull: I'd rather not 15:33:20 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:33:31 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:42:09 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:44:37 -!- myname has joined. 16:05:05 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:06:45 -!- conehead has joined. 16:41:28 -!- gasoline has joined. 16:41:46 wow i got fucken kickbanned for opping in ##esoteric 16:42:04 ? 16:42:11 try it 16:42:15 `relcome back, gasoline 16:42:18 what's ##esoteric anyway 16:42:18 ​back,: gasoline: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:42:33 to me it was a typo 16:42:45 ais523: gasoline is a troll, btw 16:42:52 hmm 16:42:53 hi elliott 16:42:53 mnoqy: what was their other name again 16:42:58 (so I can pastelogs) 16:43:04 elliott: gosh its on the tip of my tongue 16:43:08 i;ll have to look it up 16:43:11 `pastelogs 16:43:12 and yeah, was going to ask "do you have evidence for that?" 16:43:22 ais523: well, the last thing they said last time was that they'd be back :) 16:43:30 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20011 16:43:38 you might as well pastelog the fucken answer too dude 16:43:50 elliott: newstalker 16:44:03 hmm 16:44:06 mnoqy: ah yes 16:44:08 `pastelogs newstalker 16:44:16 elliott: well he/she's making more sense now than before, at least 16:44:21 we should get a new news-ham called news-talker 16:44:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7432 16:44:23 your bot is lagging 16:44:31 ais523: sugg. reading ^ 16:44:38 who programmed that piece of crap 16:44:53 its fucken slooooow dude 16:44:54 :☺) 16:45:05 2013-06-02.txt:14:32:26: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +v newstalker 16:45:11 i'm parting so i don't have to read this shit 16:45:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 16:45:23 ais523: chanserv knew what had to be done 16:45:30 who's responsible for that? 16:45:38 chanserv 16:45:57 I mean, who told chanserv to 16:46:07 chanserv is one busy mofo 16:46:14 are you saying chanserv isn't allowed to do things by its own free will 16:46:21 no, it's allowed to, it just doesn't 16:46:38 what ?! 16:46:42 elliott: ? 16:46:48 what dude 16:46:51 hmm 16:46:58 can we get the banning part out of the way with 16:47:01 actually I think I know who did the voicing 16:47:03 this is always so tedious 16:47:15 elliott: well you know how I'm typically pretty slow to ban people 16:47:24 does this channel have a rule against offtopic discussion? 16:47:44 lol do you actually look at that pastelogs and just see "offtopic discussion" :DDD 16:47:48 this channel is so great 16:47:50 elliott: no, I was trying to troll you :) 16:47:55 elliott is the channel homosexual 16:48:06 OK, gasoline, why are you insulting people randomly? 16:48:14 scroll up dude 16:48:21 you fucken cheat 16:48:22 how about you op me so i can kickban repeat offenders like this without the boring ritual in front of it 16:48:26 * itsy looks in to see if anyone's talking about esolangs... 16:48:27 imo that'd be great and efficient 16:48:28 can't, I've got about 3 screenfuls of chanserv help messages 16:48:34 itsy: as if :) 16:48:52 if anyone is insulting its elliott and his "welcome" 16:48:53 elliott: well part of the reason you aren't an op is we're worried you'd be a bit too trigger-hapy 16:48:57 *trigger-happy 16:49:00 itsy: i hear there was a great "derp code" language recently 16:49:16 at this point I've already made my mind up to kick gasoline, though, but I'm waiting to see his/her reaction because I think it'll be amusing 16:49:23 ais523: it's true, i make sure to ban at least five people from #haskell every day 16:49:27 it's my quota... for blood 16:49:32 youre a subversive ais523 16:49:39 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 16:49:41 gasoline: btw mnoqy was the one who welcomed you 16:49:43 -!- ais523 has kicked gasoline that's a boring reaction :(. 16:50:36 elliott: odds on how long before he/she tries to rejoin? 16:50:42 IS there any interesting more recent esoteric language? 16:51:14 I'd love it if there were 16:51:28 something I was thinking about a while ago, discarded, and started thinking about again 16:51:44 is "can you get interesting computational complexity from the word-wrap algorithm used by every editor ever?" 16:51:48 I suspect the answer is no, though 16:54:10 ais523: if they're sad enough to come back two times they are probably fine waiting 16:54:21 this is why bans are good, so that someone who is not welcome in the channel can be prevented from disrupting it even when ops aren't around 16:54:42 yeah but pretty much any troll who knows what they're doing can bypass bans anyway 16:55:01 who needs bans with ever vigilant ops like #esoteric;s 16:55:13 does this person strike you as the kind of person who knows what they're doing 16:55:20 it seems to me like they are incredibly stupid 16:55:41 im sure thats what they want you to think 16:57:57 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b #esoteric!*@*. 16:58:01 err, hmm 16:58:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:58:27 RIP 16:58:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:58:38 elliott: well I tried to ban them and my IRC client segfaulted 16:58:47 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 16:58:51 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -b #esoteric!*@*. 16:58:54 they hecked you 16:58:55 they know... 16:59:08 ais523: that was a good ban 16:59:09 IMO reinstate it 16:59:16 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b *!*@5ED28E0D.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl. 16:59:23 elliott: it's meaningless 16:59:25 isn't it? 16:59:33 a channel can't send messages to itself, insufficient free will 16:59:35 ais523: well, if #esoteric joined #esoteric... 16:59:40 wow you're so rude 16:59:52 yikes he's dutch 17:00:22 anyway, Konversation's capacity for interesting responses to typos continues to amuse me 17:00:26 #esoteric is an invalid nickname, so, imo ban it 17:01:41 how many ops does #esoteric have? 17:02:03 6 17:02:18 are they all active? 17:02:21 although one of them is freenode-staff, one of them is never seen, and one of them turns up occasionally to troll 17:02:28 nice 17:02:41 leaving three who might reasonably ban a troll (me, fizze, and oerjan) 17:03:00 elliott: what happened last time lament was here? 17:03:09 i have weird opinions about irc moderation, but... 17:03:10 they turned up, unbanned a troll, and the troll turned up too and started trolling? 17:03:31 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 17:03:40 ais523: they unbanned dbelange and he joined 17:03:40 i frequent a ~40 user channel where literally every regular is an op and it's extremely convenient 17:03:46 ais523: lament knows dbelange from #math or someting 17:03:47 elliott: right 17:03:48 so presumably he invited him 17:04:00 `pastelogs 17:04:04 need to check what that ban was for 17:04:12 I remember it was warranted, but not why 17:04:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2521 17:04:26 ais523: dbelange is infamous as an IRC troll 17:04:27 apparently 17:04:52 oh wow, that's pretty trolly 17:04:53 * itsy wonders if anyones written a Quine in Mouse http://esolangs.org/wiki/Mouse 17:05:09 ais523: that's saying something coming from you. 17:05:20 itsy: if it's been around that long, probably 17:05:28 especially if it caught on enough to have a book written about it 17:06:00 admittedly, INTERCAL's had a book written about it (the newest manual; I spent a Christmas writing that) 17:06:08 but reverse-admittedly, INTERCAL also has a quine 17:07:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:09:06 -!- Bike has joined. 17:11:44 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:13:25 -!- itsy has joined. 17:13:55 -!- Sgeo|work has joined. 17:14:13 shouldn't you be working, Sgeo|work 17:15:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:15:20 Was told to relax a bit 17:16:00 ah... 17:16:57 In what universe is hpaste.org a proxy avoidance site? 17:17:28 hpaste.orgs a full disk site 17:17:41 something about exotic porn 17:19:23 ais523: the closest I got to a Mouse Quine: #f;34!'#f;34!'64!'$ f"#f;34!'#f;34!'64!'$ f"@ 17:19:58 The problem is ! in a string represents a newline :-( 17:26:20 Webchat keeps the tab saying Activity! even when there is no activity 17:26:54 maybe webchat isn't the best client 17:44:00 yo elliott you have a hott date with a book 17:44:33 ty 17:53:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:53:44 is he gone 17:54:05 yes 17:54:16 Is who gone? 17:54:21 yes 17:55:17 Oh 17:56:12 Also, ais523 is a form of version control? 17:56:26 Are there any classic Mac experts here? 17:56:48 Phantom_Hoover: I kicked him/her for being insufficiently amusing for us to permit a troll here, then my client segfaulted when I tried to ban him/her 17:57:05 them, ais 17:57:14 for fuck's sake, just say 'them' like a normal person 17:57:24 I do sometimes 17:57:26 em 17:57:41 I do that sometimes too, but more frequently just to Agorans 17:57:44 bla bla nonbinary exclusion bla 17:57:51 em is totally the normal thing to say if you assume everyone not in Agora is nonnormal 17:57:58 em is dumb 17:58:01 anyway apparently there are crypto startups i didn't know this 17:58:03 spivak pronouns are dumb 17:58:09 i have explained this before 17:58:30 e is the only dumb spivak pronoun but I still prefer it over ey because tradition 18:07:39 -!- Sgeo|work has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:22:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:25:31 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:38:57 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:39:26 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:42:36 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:43:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:54:46 -!- Sgeo|work has joined. 18:54:57 Is there supposed to be anything interesting about DL? 18:57:20 DL? 18:57:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/DL 18:59:27 Idea: Compression algorithm that is lossless iff some unsolved conjecture is true 18:59:27 no 18:59:38 the no was wrt dl 18:59:43 theres nothing interesting aboout this language 19:00:46 There's a conjecture that goes something like this, right?: Any number can be expressed as the sum of X Y 19:00:53 What are X and Y, which conjecture? I forgot 19:01:13 primes? Or something? 19:01:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach_conjecture 19:01:42 this one? 19:01:59 Yes 19:03:56 here's a picture of the Goldbach Conjecture as a program looking for counterexamples: https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/goldbach.gif 19:04:51 2d3 * 2d7 / 99d6 19:04:51 elliott: (3+3) * (7+4) / 347 => 66/347 => 0.1902 19:04:54 cute 19:05:19 tromp_: also cute 19:05:43 RLE for BF that can express any BF program stripped of comments iff Goldbach is true: {2;2+} means following character repeated 4 times, the two numbers must be primes, + means just add the two, - means add them then subtract one, multiple of a character outside {} not allowed... oh, need to allow for ++ somehow, hmm 19:05:56 Just thought of something productive I could be doing 19:06:06 it's a lambda calculus term that normalizes iff GC is false 19:10:10 -!- Sgeo|work has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:13:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:18:25 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:18:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 19:19:52 The following appear 5+ times in Pascal's Triangle: 120, 210, 1540, 7140, 11628, 24310 (all 6 times) & 3003 (8 times). Are there any others? 19:22:51 1 appears a LOT :) 19:25:00 61218182743304701891431482520 appears 6 or more times 19:32:51 you can take the kmc out of the #haskell but you can never take the #haskell out of the kmc 19:34:56 Aha, I only checked 32 bit numbers... 19:35:20 i checked google:( 19:38:02 kmc: what happened 19:38:37 twitter 19:38:57 did you tell someone "yes, haskell can do that" 19:39:53 no 19:41:01 I made some sequent calculus representation of Turing machines. It only uses the right side of the sequents. If combined with classical logic, the result is inconsistent, although I think it can be consistently combined with linear logic. 19:42:52 I don't have time right now to put it into the computer, but I will on the weekend, so that you can see. 19:42:59 it was a joke kmc 19:43:02 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:43:11 Do you know of any such things like this? 19:45:04 i would be curious to see that zzo38] 19:46:58 kmc: On weekend I will have time to put it into the computer, I hope. 19:46:58 Maybe when I do that, you can also tell me if you found a mistake in it. 19:47:03 ok 19:48:50 The Turing machine and its current state and tape are represented by a multiset of formulas on the right of the sequent, and it is provable if and only if it halts. 19:51:50 It doesn't have the rule of cut and of identity and of weakening and so on; it starts from nothing (this is needed for many kinds of non-classical logic, where such rules don't apply, you can't start with those!). 19:53:08 Could a esolang be made based on sequent calculus somehow? 19:54:49 kmc: looks like a good #haskell-style argument 19:55:37 did the person you were arguing with really switch to "i agree with you but other people don't?" 19:55:46 s/..$/"?/ 19:56:07 shachaf: 19:56:10 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:56:15 @let data Foo a = Bar | Quux a 19:56:15 .L.hs:123:6: 19:56:16 Multiple declarations of `Foo' 19:56:16 Declared at: .L.hs:119... 19:56:20 @let data Fooo a = Bar | Quux a 19:56:20 Defined. 19:56:30 @let instance Show (Fooo a) where show Bar = "q"; show _ = "r" 19:56:31 Defined. 19:56:31 -!- myname has joined. 19:56:32 > Quux () 19:56:35 r 19:56:38 @undefine 19:56:38 Undefined. 19:56:50 I also want to see what happen if you do combine this Turing machine logic with linear logic, to see what it makes. I believe the result is consistent but I haven't proven it. (I have proven that combining Turing machine logic with classical logic results in an inconsistent logic.) 19:57:42 shachaf: i didn't notice 19:57:52 > instance Typeable (Fooo a) 19:57:53 :1:1: parse error on input `instance' 19:58:00 @let instance Typeable (Fooo a) 19:58:01 .L.hs:119:20: Not in scope: type constructor or class `Fooo' 19:58:12 @let data Hi; instance Typeable Hi 19:58:13 .L.hs:121:10: 19:58:13 Can't create hand written instances of Typeable in Safe H... 19:58:57 The other bot supported "> data ...", "let ...", like ghci. Maybe lambdabot should support that too. 20:00:21 What value are a & b? 2 ? a ? b ? 99. Sam knows a+b. Pat knows ab. Sam: "I don't know a & b. Nor do you." Pat: "I do now!" Sam: "So do I." 20:00:26 shachaf: not my change 20:00:30 turns out this was already in lambdabot 20:00:35 Who set up lambdabot? Then tell them, or program the patch and give it to them. 20:00:36 Problem whose solution uses goldbach conjecture :-) 20:00:59 OK then. 20:01:45 What value are a & b? 2 <= a <= b <= 99. Sam knows a+b. Pat knows ab. Sam: "I don't know a & b. Nor do you." Pat: "I do now!" Sam: "So do I." (IRC didn't like less than or equal character) 20:02:13 lol 20:02:17 oh there it is 20:02:26 twitter is really bad at showing replies and at conversations generally 20:02:29 itsy: That isn't due to IRC; it is due to whatever character encoding is being used might or might not support it, and if the client support that character encoding or not. 20:02:31 Yep. 20:03:14 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:03:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:05:31 What I don't know how to make using sequent calculus is a pull-down resistor. 20:06:06 itsy, how does Sam know that Pat doesn't know a and b? 20:06:13 Does he work it out? 20:07:18 Taneb: At least I assume that must be. 20:09:17 how can the solution rely on the goldbach conjecture if a and b are <= 99? 20:13:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:14:06 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 20:16:15 -!- aloril has joined. 20:16:17 itsy: is & bitwise and 20:19:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:23:14 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:41:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:41:54 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:48:36 kmc: jesus, that EFF case. the government argued that the court didn't have authority over its own files? 20:50:33 i don't even know 20:50:52 state secrets trials are always a kafkaesque nightmare 20:51:13 yeah ;_; 20:51:23 -!- mnoqy has joined. 20:51:26 apparently a senator said "I hope in a classified setting that more of this can be brought light" 20:51:29 like gee thanks 20:51:43 if you publish classified information you will sometimes be forbidden from attending your own trial because, the evidence is classified 20:52:16 even though it's not relevant to this it's the "born secret" part that reallly gets me 20:52:52 if i invent a fusion bomb design it is classified 20:54:56 maybe they'll decide that works for crypto in the future or something, sigh 20:54:58 yes 20:58:44 isn't there that thing where they do the trials "in camera" with like a public and private version 20:59:30 (geez why does "in camera" mean in private that makes no sense) 20:59:46 ^rainbow latin fetishism 20:59:50 oh no. 20:59:57 Oh no! 21:00:12 (My 'v6 tunnelbroker did what the name implies and broke down; just a moment.) 21:00:35 Fiora: well if you're inside a camera 21:00:38 the camera can't take a picture of you 21:00:43 so it makes sense! 21:00:56 if it's a pinhole camera can't it project you 21:00:57 -!- fungot has joined. 21:01:16 fungot: How can you take a photo in camera? 21:01:17 fizzie: a lot of functions in r5rs that you can beat delphi and vb.net or whatever just by selling lisp for money instead of delphi or vb.net for money. 21:01:25 Okay. 21:01:36 camera is Latin for room 21:01:41 Also Italian 21:01:46 camera is Latin for Italian 21:01:50 Fiora: Oh, they did that (with the two versions) for the "born secret" trial. 21:02:11 ooooh 21:02:17 that was the one I was remembering it from, I think 21:02:34 i heard about that because i have an omnibus of szilard's papers, half of which were classified derp 21:03:57 i just got a spam message from my mobile provider saying "See who's taken notice as we've enhanced your mobile experience" 21:04:04 that sure sounds ominous in this context 21:05:18 shachaf: & is just and 21:05:59 shouldn't it be "I don't know a /or/ b" 21:10:36 Taneb: Sam works it out. (I.e. from a+b, Sam knows ab can't be the product of two primes) 21:10:55 oh, and also "Since 1979, the FISA court rejected only 11 of 33,900 govt surveillance applications" so that's cool 21:11:25 Bike: if you know a, you know b. 21:12:48 @ask Phantom_Hoover http://24.media.tumblr.com/3260b4b8517dd6199069ee767ec86dfe/tumblr_moaf6cZXju1qaokvbo1_500.png help 21:12:49 Consider it noted. 21:12:52 Did any see about the German girl who got refused entry into the USA because the US govt read her private Facebook messages. (not posted to her wall or anything) 21:13:00 Bike: wow 21:13:38 Bike: wow 21:13:46 Bike: wow 21:14:49 Bike: seen it already 21:15:06 help? 21:16:39 Bike, why did you foist this upon me 21:17:07 also why is it "1942", what 21:17:36 it might... be a joke? idk 21:17:57 iirc 1942 was when martin luther defeated the nazi's with catholicism 21:18:46 oh my god he rewrote the whole thing. 21:18:58 «In a sense we've come to our nation's Internet to be meme-addicts. When the web-bloggers wrote the magnificent words of the Philosoraptor and the Nyancat, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to go "Ermahgerd!" This note was a promise that all men, yes, troll-face men as well as ridiculously photogenic guys, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "rage, being forever alone, and friendship is magic."» 21:19:04 i'm done 21:19:30 * kmc hands out cyanide pills 21:19:40 so, in conclusion, he- thanks 21:20:06 Bike: holy shit 21:20:25 Bike: holy shit 21:20:36 how does this exist 21:20:45 you know why, mnoqy 21:20:51 im ended 21:20:53 by that quote 21:20:56 im not asking why 21:20:57 im asking how 21:21:04 very carefully 21:21:13 :-] 21:22:36 -!- sprocklem has joined. 21:22:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:33:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:00 `run relcome nooodl|chaf 21:40:03 ​nochafoodlchaf: Welcomechaf tochaf thechaf internachaftionalchaf hubchaf forchaf esotericchaf programminchafgchaf languagchafechaf designchaf andchaf deploymenchaftchaf! Forchaf morechaf informationchaf, chechafckchaf outchaf ouchafrchaf wikichaf: httpchaf://eschafolangschaf.or 21:40:32 how many silly text transformers do we have 21:40:53 it's unix, so infinity 21:40:56 `run cat bin/chaf 21:40:57 ​#!/bin/sed -f \ s/\w\w\w\+/\0chaf/g 21:41:14 `chaf hello 21:41:15 ​ELFchaf............>......@.....@..................@.8..@....................@.......@.....:.......:......... ...................@......@.....$.......$..............Qtd...........................................................GNUchaf.ﲜ@+Sˆ 21:41:23 is that... blinking... 21:41:28 `run echo hello | chaf 21:41:29 yes 21:41:30 hellochaf 21:41:32 i'm afraid 21:41:37 `run echo this is some nonsense | chaf 21:41:39 thischaf is somechaf nonsensechaf 21:41:46 whoah, there's a blink code on irc? 21:41:52 yeah this is news to me 21:41:54 ☺ 21:42:00 `run relcome sha|chaf 21:42:01 help 21:42:02 ​schafhachaf: Welcchafomechaf to thchafechaf interchafnatichafonalchaf hubchaf forchaf esotericchaf prochafgrammingchaf languchafagechaf designchaf andchaf deploymechafntchaf! Forchaf morechaf informchafationchaf, checkchaf outchaf ourchaf wikichaf: httpchaf://esolangschaf.orgchaf/wikchaf 21:42:05 nice 21:42:07 schafhachaf 21:42:20 esolangschaf.orgchaf 21:42:26 i'm still confused bout prochafgrammingchaf languchafagechaf 21:42:31 `run rm bin/chaf 21:42:34 No output. 21:42:34 no! 21:42:40 rest in peacechaf 21:42:44 `revert 21:42:46 its amazing 21:42:47 Done. 21:42:51 Is the goal to make me turn off the hilight? 21:43:06 mnoqy: ps did you write this 21:43:08 Maybe I should set the hilight to be kmc-only. 21:43:12 elliott: me? 21:43:15 well you used it 21:43:15 Apparently nooodl did. 21:43:16 i have no such goal 21:43:49 kmc: are you running for prime minister 21:48:06 what's the hilight for, chaf\b? 21:48:14 Bike: yes 22:00:38 oh 22:02:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:02:32 ? 22:03:40 it's a different slur! <-- [dk][iy]ke ? actually there's a not yet mentioned non-slur matching that, too 22:05:20 hm now google isn't answering 22:06:04 i've never seen one of those spellings 22:06:35 an elaborate system of dikes and polders 22:06:38 well i don't think kyke is a word hth 22:06:52 (it might still be, this is english after all) 22:07:16 yeah apparently it's an accepted other spelling 22:07:27 it's not like anyone's really dogmatically enforcing spellings of slurs 22:07:38 accepted alternate spellings: [a-z]* 22:07:40 fack that 22:07:58 don't be such a uaqbn, kmc 22:08:36 yesterday i wondered what's the longest word that can be typed on the dvorak home row 22:08:38 oh apparently both dike and dyke can be used in both meanings 22:08:41 don't be such a kmc, uaqbn 22:08:46 works both ways 22:08:52 it appears to be 'tendentiousness' 22:09:20 what is it for qwerty 22:09:22 i think i used to know 22:09:23 for qwerty the best you can do is 'alfalfa' 22:09:28 weak 22:09:53 for the top row the longest (and most famous) word is 'typewriter' 22:10:07 this is some indication of how fucked up qwerty is 22:10:32 what about bottom row 22:10:35 xczvnmxzcv 22:10:38 mxncvmznv 22:10:43 alfalfa salad has all 22:10:58 umm 22:11:01 "typewritery" 22:11:02 my favorite dvorak home row word is probably 'shithead' 22:11:03 like a typewriter 22:11:27 i should write a novel using only the home row in dvorak 22:11:31 do you use dvorak? 22:11:33 yes 22:11:48 oulipo for the modern age 22:11:49 qwerty for life 22:11:55 kmc: ok, then you should write a novel using only the home row 22:12:30 kmc: what about Galahads 22:12:39 proper nouns don't count hth 22:12:50 because shift isn't on the front row? 22:13:10 no 22:13:12 my words file gives "unostentatiousness" as the longest dvorak home row word 22:13:17 which is pretty badass 22:13:52 But what's the longest word you can write using only four letters? 22:14:05 As in, only four different ones 22:14:22 hmm 22:14:27 For example, lollipop 22:15:11 Freefull: Bananas 22:15:30 huh, it's not often that a "longest word" of any sort is something i can understand 22:15:34 senselessness 22:15:48 does lambdabot have a word list loaded? that could be fun 22:16:07 `run ls /usr/share/dict 22:16:08 No output. 22:16:14 itsy: That's shorter than lollipop 22:16:53 maximumBy (comparing length) . filter ((<=4) . length . nub) . lines <$> readFile "/usr/share/dict/words" 22:16:53 Bike: Well, lollipop was only an example of a word that only used 4 different letters or less 22:17:10 i meant "unostentatiousness" 22:17:20 'beerbibber', 'chachalaca', 'couscousou', 'isoosmosis', 'kerrikerri', 'kotukutuku', 'recercelee', 'rememberer', 'senescence', 'sereneness', 'sleeveless', 'tattletale', 'Wallawalla', 'Mississippi', 'taratantara', 'killeekillee', 'kinnikinnick', 'tangantangan', 'senselessness' 22:17:29 i like killeekillee 22:17:40 my ut2k4 name 22:17:50 @src comparing 22:17:50 Source not found. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. 22:17:59 @hoogle comparing 22:17:59 Data.Ord comparing :: Ord a => (b -> a) -> b -> b -> Ordering 22:18:18 Apparently senselessness 22:18:26 i was going to say penanggalan but it has 5 22:18:34 er, 6 22:18:36 darn 22:19:37 cool, words using 16 different letters: 'superacknowledgment', 'blepharoconjunctivitis', 'pneumoventriculography', 'formaldehydesulphoxylic', 'Pseudolamellibranchiata', 'pseudolamellibranchiate' 22:19:54 (that's the maximum) 22:20:04 those aren't in my list :( 22:20:08 `thanks biology 22:20:10 Thanks, biology. Thiology. 22:20:24 that's definitely the best script in lambdabot tbh 22:20:35 A mosquito was heard to complain / "a chemist has poisoned my brain!" / the cause of his sorrow / was para-dichloro / diphenyltrichloroethane 22:20:35 and it's not even in lambdabot :-) 22:20:52 yes it's just that good 22:21:15 careful, elliott might add it 22:21:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:21:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 22:21:42 a phantom visit 22:21:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:21:49 oerjan...... 22:21:52 kmc: good 22:22:18 yes this limerick is quality 22:22:24 (elliott: have you seen my unicode poetry) 22:22:29 22:22:34 Freefull: sleepless, longer than lollipop :) 22:22:56 man the only chemistry rhyme i can remember is the sulfuric acid one 22:23:09 im taking that as a no?? 22:23:22 geez where's the limerick 22:23:26 Bike: little johnny is no more? 22:23:30 @src (.) 22:23:30 (f . g) x = f (g x) 22:23:31 NB: In lambdabot, (.) = fmap 22:23:31 yeah. 22:23:31 `pastelogs HEXAGRAM 22:23:33 nice wrong warning 22:23:37 Fiora: classic y'know 22:23:45 itsy: We already determined with a program that senselessness fullfills the criteria 22:23:46 elliott: snort 22:23:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5018 22:24:11 :t (.) 22:24:12 `pastelogs 2013-06-06.txt:22:13: 22:24:21 @type (.) 22:24:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27428 22:24:36 so now @src (.) is wrong? hilarious 22:24:36 wow!!! fine 22:24:54 Bike: whenever I think of that limerick I think of the poor shirt I destroyed with nitric acid 22:24:57 elliott, 22:24:58 22:13:17: HEXAGRAM FOR THE CREATIVE HEAVEN 22:24:58 22:13:17: MATHEMATICAL BOLD DIGIT SEVEN 22:24:58 22:13:17: KANGXI RADICAL WHITE 22:24:58 22:13:17: VERTICAL TRAFFIC LIGHT 22:24:58 22:13:17: NEGATIVE CIRCLED NUMBER ELEVEN 22:25:09 Fiora: heh. did you see the mouth pippeting thing 22:25:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:19 ䷀𝟕⽩🚦⓫ 22:25:30 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 22:25:31 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 22:25:32 ? 22:25:37 mouth pippeting? 22:25:41 Fiora: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2013/03/20/mouth_pipetting/ 22:25:41 nooodl: You are awesome 22:25:45 nooodl: really good 22:26:54 i also wrote a haiku 22:26:55 and a sonnet 22:27:31 http://bpaste.net/raw/olydVfuzIeXaGKTkVxlJ/ this is the sonnet (ignore the |s they're just character name boundaries) 22:27:50 (make sure to read it in iambic pentameter!) 22:28:06 Bike: woooow 22:28:09 i can't read anything in iambic pentameter 22:28:09 You should write a program to do it for you now 22:28:11 what's the haiku 22:28:14 FreeFull: senselessnesses for 15 :-P 22:28:15 @tell taneb Does that make me a pro <-- now that makes you willy wonka hth 22:28:15 Consider it noted. 22:28:20 Fiora: yeaaaaaah 22:28:23 it was in the topic for a while 22:28:24 @tell taneb *no 22:28:24 Consider it noted. 22:28:32 @tell lambdabot Moo 22:28:32 Nice try ;) 22:28:37 nooodl: imo you should get these published 22:28:38 MAHJONG TILE AUTUMN | HIRAGANA LETTER YA | SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 22:28:44 it's really deep 22:28:51 it's great seeing the cadence and rhyme of poetry but not getting any meaning out of it 22:28:53 Snowman without snow 22:29:01 it has the 5-7-5 thing, kireji, season words, 22:29:14 haiku of the year 22:29:20 mnoqy: no that's yours 22:29:22 it looks like the easiest one but it's actually the best + hardest one 22:29:23 haiku of every year 22:29:28 Fiora: this came up in a discussion amongst chem grad students about getting carpal tunnel from pippeting, which is... better 22:30:04 @_@ 22:30:09 i don't think i really 'got' poetry until i read a Brown poem out loud. that was a nice feeling 22:30:44 oh i didn't see the sonet 22:30:44 nice 22:31:12 i like the final 6 verses 22:31:34 there's an ascii symbol inside too! 22:32:18 someone: write a script that converts my sonnet into actual unicode symbols 22:32:18 Try making a poem out of the names of greek letters 22:32:28 "English haiku" is lulz 22:32:28 Bike: wow this mouth pippetting thing is horrifying 22:32:33 yes 22:32:46 `thanks chemistry 22:32:47 Thanks, chemistry. Themistry. 22:32:50 Perfect 22:32:56 `thanks mouth pippetting 22:32:56 Thanks, mouth pippetting. Thouth pippetting. 22:33:05 vote: should it th-ify each word 22:33:10 no 22:33:12 No. 22:33:29 nooodl: have you even watched look around you btw.... 22:33:31 vote over 22:33:32 what yes 22:33:45 im offended 22:34:12 are we talking both series here or just the first one 22:34:17 "the interrogation" 22:34:26 i think only the first one...?? maybe 22:34:41 let me see 22:35:02 Long-time mouth pipettor back in the day...best (worst) moment was doling out a ton of bacterial broth into tubes using a 25 mL pipette for several minutes and then transfering bacterial cultures using a 1 mL pipette. 22:35:05 but would you really stress that "NEED"? it's ridic. <-- i think that was meant to indicate the urgency here, as in "only if you _really_ need it" 22:35:06 After about a dozen or so sucks on the 25 mL, I wasn't paying enough attention and did a 25-mL suck on the 1 mL pipette...almost inhaled the cotton ball and got a good mouthful of bacterial culture. Salty and a little yeasty. 22:35:17 a little yeasty 22:35:25 oerjan, but then why isn't REALLY bold 22:35:51 elliott: i've watched all of season 1 but also vaguely remember watching Computers from season two 22:36:03 (that's the one with the video games right?) 22:36:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:36:24 nooodl: um do you mean "ready"? there is no "really". 22:36:28 `thanks thanks 22:36:29 Thanks, thanks. Thanks. 22:36:49 oh hm 22:36:51 oh i thought you were quoting 22:36:54 nope 22:37:09 i've forgotten about this speech bubble hours ago 22:38:42 also it's supposed to be a little theatrical, i'm sure. 22:38:53 yeah 22:39:04 is it even worth it watching the second look around you series 22:39:17 these _are_ mad scientists and there minions, after all. 22:39:22 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 22:39:31 (and technically they're nobles, too) 22:39:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:39:56 shachaf: of course 22:40:06 it is fantastic, not as good as the first though 22:41:05 hey can you start a letter with "Mrs., Mr"? 22:41:27 when you have no idea of the name or gender of your correspondent 22:41:36 how about just use their name 22:41:55 *their 22:42:07 if it's so good why can't you get a region 1 (/ no region) dvd 22:42:10 checkmate 22:42:28 because I don't know their name elliott 22:42:53 i... ok 22:42:56 in french we'd go with "Madame, Monsieur, " 22:43:32 masseur 22:44:12 what'd you say about my sister?? *headbut* 22:44:48 this french joke... 22:45:09 head but what? 22:46:12 well I know you'd expect me to put some t there 22:46:23 but I'm not british am I? I only drink coffee 22:47:45 then you should be colombian hth 22:50:15 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:53:54 > fix$'h':'t':'h': 22:53:54 :1:17: 22:53:54 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched... 22:53:59 > fix('h':'t':'h':) 22:54:00 The operator `:' [infixr 5] of a section 22:54:00 must have lower precedence th... 22:54:09 Aw 22:54:47 Yeah, I see why that wouldn't work 22:55:05 well it _could_ have worked, haskell just doesn't allow it. 22:56:17 > join$"hth"<$[1..] 22:56:18 "hthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthht... 22:56:30 > unwords$"hth"<$[1..] 22:56:31 "hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth hth ht... 22:56:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:57:00 > forever "hth" 22:57:04 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:57:15 hm brain fart 22:58:38 :t swap 22:58:38 (a, b) -> (b, a) 22:59:28 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:59:53 @pl \x -> if x == a then b else if x == b then a else x 22:59:57 ap (flip if' b . (a ==)) (join (flip if' a . (b ==))) 22:59:57 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:00:29 What? 23:01:30 @pl-resume 23:01:36 ap (flip if' b . (a ==)) (join (flip if' a . (b ==))) 23:01:36 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:01:52 Weird 23:02:31 :t lookup 23:02:32 Eq a => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b 23:02:53 @let let swapE a b = map (\x -> if x == a then b else if x == b then a else x ) 23:02:53 Parse failed: Parse error: EOF 23:03:08 :t fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:03:09 Expr -> Expr 23:04:11 @pl x 23:04:11 x 23:04:35 :t \x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:04:35 Expr -> Expr -> Expr 23:04:40 :t \a b x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b), (b,a)] 23:04:41 Eq a => a -> a -> a -> a -> a 23:04:43 @pl ap x (join y) 23:04:43 ap x (join y) 23:05:27 @pl \a b -> map $ \x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)] 23:05:31 ((map $) .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:05:31 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:05:42 @pl-resume 23:05:48 ((map $) .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:05:48 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:05:57 @pl \a b -> map *\x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)]) 23:05:57 (line 1, column 59): 23:05:57 unexpected ')' 23:05:57 expecting variable, "(", ".", "`", "!!", operator, "*", "/", "`quot`", "`rem`", "`div`", "`mod`", ":%", "%" or end of input 23:06:02 @pl \a b -> map (\x -> fromMaybe x . flip lookup [(a,b),(b,a)]) 23:06:05 (map .) . (flip ((.) . fromMaybe) .) . (flip lookup .) . ap (ap . ((:) .) . (,)) (flip (flip . ((:) .) . flip (,)) []) 23:06:05 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:06:16 elliott: is there some bug in @pl's check of whether anything is changing? 23:06:48 or perhaps two rules that cancel each other but keep triggering 23:07:15 i recall this one from before: 23:07:25 @pl (ap id id) (ap id id) 23:07:28 ap id id (ap id id) 23:07:28 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:07:31 @pl really is pointless 23:07:32 really is pointless 23:08:01 @pl ACTION licks something 23:08:01 (line 1, column 1): 23:08:01 unexpected "\SOH" 23:08:01 expecting white space, "()", natural, identifier, lambda abstraction or expression 23:08:02 that one actually is reasonable as infinitely triggering. 23:08:09 (although it cannot type) 23:08:55 @pl \1ACTION licks something\1 23:08:55 (line 1, column 25): 23:08:55 unexpected "\\" 23:08:55 expecting pattern or "->" 23:09:00 @pl "\1ACTION licks something\1" 23:09:00 "\SOHACTION licks something\SOH" 23:09:01 :t (ap id id) 23:09:02 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> b0 23:09:02 Expected type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 23:09:02 Actual type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 -> b0 23:09:05 right 23:09:21 :t (id <*> id) 23:09:22 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = a0 -> b0 23:09:22 Expected type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 23:09:22 Actual type: (a0 -> b0) -> a0 -> b0 23:09:42 isn't that exactly the same 23:09:46 :t (ap) 23:09:46 Monad m => m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 23:09:52 yes 23:10:01 ap is like <*> but monadier 23:10:22 :t (<*>) 23:10:23 Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 23:10:27 but @pl didn't know about applicatives last i checked 23:10:42 @pl (id <*> id) (id <*> id) 23:10:42 (id <*> id) (id <*> id) 23:11:56 @pl \x -> x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x 23:11:57 join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join (join id)))))))))))))))))))))))) 23:12:02 awesome 23:12:23 @pl \x -> x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x `x` x x 23:12:25 ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (ap id (join (join id)))))))))))))))))))))) `ap` join id 23:12:56 Not much longer 23:13:19 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:13:26 @pl \x -> \y -> x*y*x*y*x*y 23:13:29 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:13:29 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:13:38 looks efficient. 23:13:40 @pl-resume 23:13:46 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:13:47 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:13:50 you'd think 23:13:51 WEAK 23:14:03 @pl \x y -> x*y*x*y*x*y 23:14:06 flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . flip (ap . ((*) .) . ap (flip . ((*) .) . (*)) id) id) id) id 23:14:06 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:14:08 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pW0fbLrweME/T9hQhjYUINI/AAAAAAAAEGs/CnYKunGnryo/s1600/IMG_5897ac.JPG bizarre fungus 23:14:12 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/ileodictyon_gracile.html 23:14:28 Bike: you know because of Doubles and stuff it cannot assume * is associative hth 23:14:30 kmc: Far from weirdest fungus 23:14:33 cooool 23:14:44 (not that it would care anyhow) 23:14:47 FreeFull: ;P 23:15:08 @pl \x y z f g -> x*y*z*f*g*y 23:15:11 flip (ap . (flip .) . ((flip .) .) . (((flip .) .) .) . (((((*) .) .) .) .) . ((((*) .) .) .) . (((*) .) .) . ((*) .) . (*)) id 23:15:11 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:15:27 @pl \x y -> x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y*x*y 23:15:32 join . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) 23:15:33 . join (flip . ((*) .) . flip ap id . ((*) .) . join (flip . ((*) .) . (*))))))) 23:15:33 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:15:41 Probably far from best 23:15:48 But I did get lambdabot to split it across two lines 23:17:42 * FreeFull installs lambdabot locally 23:19:03 isn't there some simple way to use @pl by itself 23:19:27 Which would be? 23:19:51 i don't know, last time i asked how @pl worked i was answered with "It uses Haskell" 23:19:53 > (curry$(!!13).scanl1(*).cycle.sequence[fst,snd])x y 23:19:55 x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y * x * y 23:21:10 cool 23:25:27 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:54 > map ([1..] !!) [1..] 23:27:55 [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,2... 23:29:00 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:29:46 Was told to relax a bit <-- have you started worrying your coworkers? 23:29:48 @pl \x -> 3 x 23:29:48 3 23:30:01 oerjan, not that I know of, I hope 23:30:15 If I can strike fear into one of our vendors though, I would be happy 23:30:30 i recall you mentioned something about "workaholic" 23:30:56 I often think about work when I'm at home... then again, I sometimes think about not-work at work 23:31:04 But those times I usually feel a bit guilty 23:31:12 @pl 3 3 23:31:12 3 3 23:31:18 @pl \x -> \x -> x x 23:31:18 const (join id) 23:31:40 @pl \x -> x^x^x^x^x^x^x 23:31:41 ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (ap (^) (join (^)))))) 23:31:53 @pl \x y -> x^y^x^y^x^y^x 23:31:56 liftM2 (.) (^) (ap (^) . liftM2 (.) (^) (ap (^) . ap ((.) . (^)) (flip (^)))) 23:31:56 optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. 23:32:01 Meh 23:32:09 wait what is that 23:32:11 :t (^) 23:32:11 (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a 23:32:13 Multiplication was best so far 23:32:19 :t (**) 23:32:19 Floating a => a -> a -> a 23:32:27 haskell is hard............. 23:32:28 :t (^^) 23:32:29 (Fractional a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a 23:33:06 > ap (*) (ap (*) (ap (*) (join (*)))) x 23:33:07 x * (x * (x * (x * x))) 23:33:08 Bike: Sure, there are three exponentiation operators 23:33:09 pikhq, reviews said the bass was too quiet on these... the bass is much more pronounced than I'm used to 23:33:25 But you can usually either just use ^ or ** 23:33:30 great 23:33:46 Bike: it's all those monads, am i rite 23:33:50 Sgeo_: Some people think bass is about amplitude. 23:34:50 > (3 ^ 481891) `mod` 17 23:34:51 10 23:34:54 ^^ is for the rare case when you are raising something that can be divided but isn't floating-point to a possibly negative integral type 23:34:55 cool 23:35:29 > x ^^ (-3) 23:35:30 recip (x * x * x) 23:36:30 so i'm wondering, is the modular exponentiation thing optimized well 23:36:39 not at all afaik 23:36:43 > (4 :: Int) ^^ (-2 :: Int) 23:36:44 No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) 23:36:44 arising from a use o... 23:37:18 otoh if you define a modular type ^ will work on it efficiently automatically 23:37:51 well, relatively efficient, it won't make use of cycles in the exponent as that would require euler phi-function stuff 23:38:52 and factorizing the modulus, i think 23:39:01 OMG 23:39:03 MY INTERNET FIXED ITSELF 23:39:06 GOD BLESS GOD BLESS GOD BLESS 23:39:23 internet, ruining elliott's atheism since 2013 23:39:24 ? 23:39:24 i had all but given up hope 23:39:31 kmc: my internet went down 23:39:32 for like 23:39:33 half an hour 23:39:47 the horror 23:39:59 it is seriously worrying that this actually makes me depressed and panicky 23:40:01 o well 23:40:04 it's back now so i don't have to think about that 23:40:17 millenials, am i right 23:40:26 with their facebooks and their instagrams 23:41:00 i wish internet was considered as important as a utility as, e.g. electricity 23:41:09 municipal internet is a thing 23:41:12 in terms of expected reliability of access etc. 23:41:21 Bike: yeah but it isn't really any better is it 23:41:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:41:57 well i just mean, people do think like you're saying 23:42:06 imo i want results 23:42:07 not that it's as far as electricity yet in terms of reliability 23:42:21 (and of course electricity isn't that reliable anywhere either check your privilege etc etc) 23:42:27 everywhere* 23:42:38 um i obviously only care about mysel 23:42:39 f 23:42:40 ever 23:42:46 hey what channel name should i use to test lambdabot note it has to not end in "bot" 23:42:58 tobadbmal 23:43:33 ooh, spooky 23:43:54 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:43:54 who is this bmal and what is this hidden lambdabot they were involved in 23:44:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to Nisstyre. 23:44:06 *lambdabot tragedy 23:44:08 #tobun it is 23:44:12 join for fun lambdabot testing time's 23:46:19 #bots does not end in bot 23:47:33 "Hello Sgeo_, Attempting to change the rules in someone else's environment is a game that cannot be won." 23:47:46 Got greeted by that in #bots 23:48:04 Reminds me of the Risho-Agoran war... a little 23:48:09 I didn't actually ever see it myself 23:48:26 http://25.media.tumblr.com/a529c4c5aa22f00c361b6a591c5a3467/tumblr_moapkcYyQV1rsbiwyo1_400.jpg esoteric animes 23:50:26 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:27 -!- sacje has joined. 23:54:28 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to SgeoBot. 23:55:10 i was ever so slightly responsible for the risho-agoran war, i recall. 23:56:39 Good work. 23:56:53 oerjan: cool