00:07:12 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:09:29 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AVSq6lYUnYA/UXZVJS-qMnI/AAAAAAAABQY/a7ujINuJQpI/w506-h930-o/z_15ce2d9d.jpg 00:11:45 -!- madbr has joined. 00:12:05 hi 00:12:09 is there a good way to detect memory aliasing in software? 00:14:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:16:14 the algo I have atm is: 00:17:28 - in the loop, if there are any read operations that can't be reordered to after generating all the memory write addresses, they have to be locked. This is done with a Memory_read + lock operation 00:20:08 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:23:28 - All the memory writes that can potentially alias with reads should be locked first, using a lock operation 00:24:10 - Once all write addresses are locked, all the other memory reads can be done, using a memory_read + check operation 00:25:31 - Also any locked read addresses from the first step can be unlocked, using an unlock operation 00:26:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:26:47 - Once all potential jumps are passed and it's sure the code isn't running speculatively, the real writes can be done, using a write + unlock operation 00:27:59 It "works" and also supports read-modify (using a memory_read + lock instead of just a lock operation at step 2) but it's kinda convoluted 00:28:04 -!- Bike has joined. 00:28:24 It uses like 5 different operations where a normal memory system would only have 2 o_O 00:28:26 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/12/weekend.jonronson i hope you're all reading these 00:28:33 because i am not going to stop linking them 00:30:10 also if a memory alias is detected it has to jump from some random location to a proper handler, invalidate all the cores that were speculatively doing wrong stuff, and also unlock the addresses that were locked but won't be unlocked now that the control flow won't go there o_O 00:31:55 -!- Bike_ has joined. 00:34:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:37:02 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 00:37:49 -!- Bike has joined. 00:37:57 -!- elieser2241 has left. 00:38:28 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:40:14 -!- mnoqy has joined. 00:41:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:47:31 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:47:55 * Sgeo wonders if he could give REBOL similar scoping as Kernel 00:48:21 Kernel operatives receive a lexical environment as an object, right? And eval takes one? 00:48:31 Or am I misremembering 00:48:38 yes 00:48:54 (yes they do, no you're not misremembering) 00:49:06 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:49:08 shachaf and i are at world hq of http://www.em-labs.com/ 00:49:11 `e 00:49:12 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 00:49:32 Hmm, would be easy to make a variant of do that takes a word and forces that word's lexical environment on every word in the argument block 00:49:49 kmc: ooh, that looks fun 00:50:03 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:50:22 yeah i know the founders from school 00:51:04 Harder would be to make functions that take a block also take an environment... I mean, they could just peak at the first word in the block and assume that that's its environment 00:51:38 hm it occurs that i don't actually know anything about REBOL 00:51:58 Sgeo: well, that's why kernel environment parameters are all separated out. 00:51:59 should i fix that 00:52:00 Better idea: Give participating functions an /env refinement and have my doenv scan for words that have it 00:52:07 kmc, yes >.> 00:52:38 Although, Rebol makes things tricky here by making it hard to determine where a functions arguments end 00:53:38 Maybe a bit of currying... 00:55:58 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/mar/19/weekend.jonronson stop learning rebol Sgeo 00:56:45 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 00:57:16 Are the link and that statement related? 00:57:21 Also, do you know anything about rebol? 00:57:46 yes 00:58:04 The link and the statement are related. 00:58:09 It's a very cogent argument. 01:16:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:26:07 http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jul/02/weekend.jonronson oh god this one 01:32:30 http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/jul/16/creditcards.debt is also good but not particularly funny 01:37:21 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 01:37:35 -!- elieser2241 has left. 02:02:33 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:03:55 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:05:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:05:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:10:42 -!- keyzs has joined. 02:11:46 http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ 02:12:16 http://worldtv.com/tvp_global/ 02:12:53 Well shit, when you put it that way. 02:13:50 "I wish Mr. Fresco would take a neutral position on who did 9/11. It's a touchy and divisive subject and there isn't likely to be consensus any time soon." 02:15:30 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:16:03 laws of nature are inviolable? 02:16:39 Bike i believe that usa made 911 02:16:50 `welcome keyzs 02:16:52 keyzs: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:16:55 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:18:08 zzo38: Who do you think made 911? 02:21:41 Bike the us puts people on poverty with the federal reserve bank ruled by 5 or 6 magnats of money, so why wouldn´t them cause a disaster to have a war and make devastation and profit over it? 02:22:14 The banks really have got a lot of money out of the war on terror, haven't they. 02:22:20 Flame war in the Rebol room about q 02:22:37 I wish you'd take a neutral position on q, Sgeo. 02:23:30 Guy is angry that q causes the interpreter to quit, and is worried about people accidentally quitting and then not realizing why they quit 02:27:02 Bike: Who made 9/11? Well, it wasn't made by just one guy. The USA did part of it, but not all of it. 02:27:19 Bike wars are about resources, there were resources themes behind story of 9/11, starts on politics and oil, what do you think was laden business? 02:27:37 I'm on the side of the angry guy 02:28:08 He was born in the bin Laden family to billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia. 02:28:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 02:28:33 now figure it out :) 02:29:13 bin Laden did 9/11? That sounds like a controversial idea. 02:29:47 I think it was partially the fault of the government of the United States, although it is also bin Laden's fault, and possibly a few others. 02:31:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:32:31 -!- sprocklem has joined. 02:32:55 Bike usa did 9/11 02:33:42 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:34:16 How cruel. 02:34:18 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:34:24 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:34:30 What do you think of SKI calculus? 02:36:42 the us government faked 9/11, but then bin laden swooped in and took the credit 02:36:58 they were just going to be like "yeah those towers tragically exploded" 02:37:04 Maybe I should make an esolang called Northwoods. 02:37:19 can have multiple applications 02:41:01 Phantom__Hoover, i believe that it was more like a tragic happening partership, because some documentaries that i seen say that structure of the building was designed to resist plains hitting it, and the metal structure had chemicals to do erosion on airplain hits 02:42:28 us has business oil deals with multiple countries and arabs, most of them are coneceted to religion and arm businesses, so they are no flowers, play with the devil and then get it good 02:44:30 *conected 02:44:51 i realise now that steering to the absurd was a bad idea for this conversation 02:45:37 saddam hussein was absurd too 02:45:40 Hm, back in 1994 some people tried to crash a plane into the Eiffel Tower. I didn't know that. 02:45:43 vietnam 02:45:47 japs 02:45:51 East Timor. 02:45:57 Bangladesh. 02:45:58 afeganistan 02:45:59 Canadians. 02:46:01 etc 02:46:28 all in name of resources, profit, lands and oil 02:48:55 we went to vietnam to export some of our freedom to the poor, backwards communists 02:48:58 -!- myname has joined. 02:49:02 you need to check your facts sir 02:49:08 or ma'am 02:49:15 Or nonbinary existence. 02:49:46 yes or that 02:51:08 Sgeo: Don't scare me like that! 02:56:49 sacje http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War 02:57:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:57:09 war is war 02:57:50 see that pic on wikipedia with the soldiers down? 02:57:55 wikipedia is a known to be a hotbed for communist sympathizers 02:58:51 Who are these people? 02:58:51 you can search on any search engine 02:59:44 search engines are working for the chinese 03:00:10 hey, what's going on here? 03:00:19 some sort of channel invasion? 03:00:37 Something like that. 03:00:46 I think? I don't know what keyzs thinks of esolangs. 03:01:08 lol i'm just messing around 03:01:18 keyzs: sacje: do you understand what this channel is for, or do you just turn up to random channels as part of some sort of performance art thing? 03:01:54 i know what it's for, i like esolangs and didn't know there was an irc channel for it 03:02:15 i was kidding because i saw other people were talking about politics and figure it could use a dose of crazy 03:02:23 I think it's mostly keyzs fault 03:02:30 turned up recently, and hasn't said anything ontopic yet 03:05:26 not so much other people 03:05:30 as some sort of possible troll 03:05:36 in general, though, this is a hard channel to troll effectively 03:05:50 not impossible, but it isn't accomplished very often 03:07:07 -!- keyzs has left ("Leaving"). 03:07:25 hmm… I suspect keyzs is organised enough to actually check the list of ops before starting to troll 03:07:38 because I didn't unstealth 03:07:53 Or maybe they just wanted to stay until somebody mentioned that they were just spewing. 03:08:28 perhaps 03:08:36 Either way, thank you, O op. 03:09:28 yeah, I was considering a ban 03:09:34 or at least a kick 03:09:40 but you test the waters first to see if people are reasonable or not 03:09:50 I remember when a troll came in here a while ago 03:09:55 and we kicked them about 10 times 03:09:59 didn't bother banning, it was too funny 03:35:26 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:45:45 -!- simpleirc has joined. 03:48:06 -!- simpleirc has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:56:59 -!- yonkie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:57:31 -!- yonkie has joined. 03:59:46 -!- yonkie_ has joined. 04:02:30 -!- yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:09:30 Is there a way in MediaWiki to make a template to override another template inside a template which it calls? 04:16:51 Is it difficult? 04:42:39 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:42:58 -!- comex has joined. 04:50:49 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:45 So there are those crypto challenges that like kmc and shachaf were talking about probably. And related ctfs and stuff. 04:57:52 Are there any like, open-ended challenges? 04:58:03 "Here's an intercepted transmission from [fictional war], figure it out" or something 05:03:26 Bike: are you a numbers station 05:03:37 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 0096 2251 2110 8105 05:04:48 Yeah, Conet is why I'm asking. 05:04:53 http://irdial.com/crackhome.htm 05:05:18 i think those are mostly one-time pads 05:05:42 Yeah but they put them up anyway. 05:05:52 Maybe they just want to see amateur cryptanalysts lose their minds. 05:07:03 there's that scullpture at the NSA 05:07:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptos 05:07:31 skullpture 05:08:33 I think the NSA is big on cryptanalysts losing their minds, so 05:08:50 Dang, for a second I thought "encrypted sculpture" was going to be an article :( 05:10:57 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 05:11:06 These are shorter than I expected. Lincolnshire Poacher is apparently just 39715 over and over again. 05:12:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:13:38 Oh, it changed. 32348. 59378. makes me wonder if they switched to something steganographic and the numbers are just a ploy, though. 05:46:43 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:03:47 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:04:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:04:35 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 06:04:35 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:04:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:09:29 play numbers stations loudly outdoors at 2AM 06:11:21 numbers stations set to led zeppelin 06:12:04 everything is numbers 06:13:26 orange! that's right! 06:13:36 OORRAANNGGEE 06:14:00 boards of lincolnhire 06:15:45 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:33:46 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:35:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:38:41 -!- shachaf has joined. 06:46:45 hichaf 06:48:04 helloogan 06:48:04 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:51:39 kmc: 𝕳𝖆𝖑𝖋 𝖆 𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖊𝖗 𝖋𝖔𝖗 𝖙𝖒𝖚𝖝! 06:52:05 that's a lot of � :/ 06:52:10 I guess you are showing off your new tmux? 06:52:29 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/s 06:53:42 :) 06:53:56 looks v. nice in my browser 06:54:09 test 06:54:34 heh. 07:21:17 i wonder if birds ever eat something so heavy that they can't fly anymore 07:23:37 shachaf and i saw a bird that was maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Scrub_Jay 07:34:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:35:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:47:00 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:47:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:56:34 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:59:47 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:00:00 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:09:00 -!- sivoais has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 08:09:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:10:41 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:02 -!- sivoais has joined. 08:41:21 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:43:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:54:06 -!- mnoqy has joined. 08:57:42 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:05:54 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:07:17 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:55:08 -!- mnoqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:57:18 -!- mnoqy has joined. 11:09:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 11:29:20 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:37:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 11:44:08 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:44:53 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 11:44:53 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 11:44:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:48:27 -!- shachaf has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:48:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 11:55:02 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:55:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:56:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:56:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:32:21 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:55:01 ais523: can i get you to ban ~elieser22@190.121.238.14 12:55:08 they keep joining and then parting seconds later and never saying anything!! 12:55:23 elliott: recently, or a long time ago? 12:56:16 I can see it three times in my scrollback, once they stayed here for several minutes 12:56:21 so I'd say there isn't enough evidence yet 12:57:11 like, it could be someone with a broken client, but I think it's more likely someone checking the channel manually to see if there's an active conversation 12:57:16 and that's not a ban-worthy offence 12:58:11 ais523: grep elieser224 *.log --> http://sprunge.us/VJBb 12:58:35 `e 12:58:40 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal 12:58:44 if they've been checking the channel then they've been ignoring that ^ several times 12:58:54 admittedly it misses a letter of their nick 12:59:00 but if they're checking manually, that shouldn't be relevant 12:59:26 you can set up a ban that redirects them to ##fixyourconnection, that's what is done in #haskell for client/connection problems like that 12:59:50 well, the pattern seems to have changed in the last several hours 13:00:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:00:17 so I think we'll see if it starts up again before a fix-your-connection ban (which is the only sort of ban I was considering) 13:00:58 I can't redirect there, it doesn't have an allow-arbitrary-redirects mode set 13:01:10 or maybe it does, is that mode +F? 13:01:37 well you could consider bit a ban for flooding 13:01:39 *it 13:02:00 like, if someone joined just to say "a" every hour for a six-hour period every day, they should be banned 13:02:47 yeah 13:02:55 but the temporary join and then part a bit later is harder to explain 13:03:13 it's arguably twice as noisy as "a" :) 13:03:24 probably equally in practice, since joins/parts are "quieter" than messages 13:07:22 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:08:16 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:08:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:20:49 maybe they have #esoteric on autojoin for some reason and are manually parting it every time they join? 13:21:29 Phantom_Hoover: sounds like they'd be pleased to have their client be made unable to join #esoteric then 13:22:10 yes 13:22:16 `run echo 'echo elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas?' >bin/e 13:22:21 No output. 13:22:22 let's try that 13:22:23 `e 13:22:24 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 13:22:31 ps does anyone speak spanish 13:22:43 "often why high and low?" uh 13:30:20 is spanish just a guess, or is it related to the IP somehow? 13:32:44 ais523: as seen in my log link, the only thing they've ever said in #esoteric is "hola" 13:32:54 also I googled their nick and they've been in some other channel on freenode in spanish 13:32:54 ah right 13:33:15 i suspect google translate has not adequately conveyed my message 13:35:10 what happened with that crazy spanish guy 13:35:17 who kept insulting me in spanish 13:35:51 Phantom_Hoover, that was one of my alter egos 13:35:58 (it wasn't one of my alter egos actually) 13:38:52 i know that! you are, after all, one of my alter egos 13:39:36 I thought it was the other way round 13:47:52 -!- augur has joined. 13:51:04 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:51:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:54:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:58:21 eliser224: hey what are you doing joining and parting all the time???? what's the deal <-- your speling is pathetic hth 14:03:52 * oerjan suddenly wonders if there are many things in programming named after spices, like currying 14:04:00 ...salting, obviously 14:04:11 sugaring? 14:04:21 Syntactic sugar 14:04:32 Actually currying comes from a guy's name 14:04:35 ...but the name probably comes from food 14:04:58 OH I'D NEVER HAVE GUESSED 14:05:10 The name has nothing to do with the food, actually 14:05:16 the joke is starvation 14:05:20 hm i'm not sure curry's name ... what Taneb said 14:05:28 isn't it irish or something 14:05:32 Yeah 14:06:00 on the flipside, haskell is hebrew. or maybe that's also irish by some remarkable coincidence. 14:06:25 brooks sounds disturbingly english. maybe it's really persian or something. 14:07:02 I'm trying to learn HTML Canvas. 14:07:17 I keep running an example and thinking, "ooh, isn't this pretty? wow" 14:07:22 And then getting distracted 14:07:57 "Brooks is a functional logic programming language which inherits from the languages Curry and BABEL but allows the integration of different narrowing strategies." 14:08:10 lost in the canvas 14:08:40 * oerjan has new laptop! 14:08:45 just need to unpack it 14:09:07 Yay! 14:10:05 maybe i'll be able to compile lens without thrashing on the first attempt, now 14:10:55 probably not enough to compile ghc though; i don't want to ruin my dad either 14:15:40 the old man is rather kind, really 14:40:53 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:50:08 *chirp* 14:54:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:55:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:16:16 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:20:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:20:38 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:27:35 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:30:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:36:38 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:40:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:46:42 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:50:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 15:52:09 -!- carado has joined. 15:57:24 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:00:10 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:06:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:07:34 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:10:35 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:11:09 -!- conehead has joined. 16:17:28 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:19:40 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415 finland 16:20:10 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:27:46 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:30:13 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:37:25 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:40:15 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:42:17 -!- drlemon has joined. 16:42:42 Hello 16:42:51 Hello 16:43:13 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:43:26 hello 16:43:41 Oh hello DHeadshot 16:44:10 Also hello kmc but nostly headshot because he sent me here 16:46:02 Drlemon, well, you did say you Loved esolangs... 16:46:42 `WeLcOmE drlemon 16:46:45 DrLeMoN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 16:46:49 I've actually been here before. Just didn't have much to say considering I'm a total amateur at programming 16:47:22 I've been welcomed already last time. 16:47:35 oerjan: what new laptop did you get 16:47:36 it's ok it was probably a different welcome 16:47:45 kmc: asus something 16:48:10 No, like 10 people welcomed me in different ways 16:48:16 drlemon: ah. 16:48:31 `relcome drlemon 16:48:34 ​drlemon: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:48:47 Oh 16:48:51 For some reason, the save game isn't working OK. 16:52:35 -!- nooga has joined. 16:53:27 I wonder what are minimal CPU features that allow linux to run 16:54:12 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:54:35 assume that you have to design a simple CPU, then make a GCC backend targetting this machine, and then compile and boot linux kernel 16:55:02 then i would design a CPU that already fits the MIPS ISA :) 16:55:21 nooga: I don't know. 16:55:40 anyway I don't think there are many must-have features; Linux does run on systems without MMU these days 16:55:51 "although functionality is then obviously somewhat limited" 16:55:56 kmc: too simple, existing ISAs are banned from this excercise 16:56:08 Yes, I suppose using the same instruction set that Linux uses in something it is ported to, or the subset compatible with Linux, would be an easy way to do it without modifying Linux or GCC, although that isn't necessarily a minimal CPU features! 16:56:13 then i would make some ISA which differs from MIPS in a boring way 16:56:25 say by shuffling the bits of the instruction encoding 16:56:27 i'll call it ips-may 16:56:31 i would go with something ARMish 16:56:41 kmc: Or omitting the features that GCC/Linux doesn't use? 16:56:47 zzo38: sure 16:57:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:57:07 ARM is a cool arch, but MIPS might be a bit simpler to implement 16:57:17 depending also on which versions 16:57:32 You could do AVR 16:57:32 SPARCs are awesome 16:58:59 but this is not minimal 16:59:27 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:59:29 i have implemented at gate level 6.004's "Beta" processor, which I guess is supposed to be like the Alpha but 32-bit 16:59:38 it's a very simple RISC 16:59:51 i was just wondering if there are some specific features that are strictly required to run GCC output, with linux as a representative example 16:59:53 with very limited interrupt handling, and no MMU 17:00:09 wow 17:02:13 I realized in this C program, I have both "VERSION" and "version" as two different things. (Since C is case-sensitive, this is OK.) 17:03:30 -!- jsvine has joined. 17:03:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:06:20 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:53 maybe I should ask on #kernel 17:07:05 but I fear that they will eat me 17:07:54 Zzo38, It's when you have "Version", "vERSION" and "VeRsIoN" as well that you need to worry... 17:08:07 DHeadshot: Yes, that may be true. 17:08:36 As it turns out both version and VERSION are macros in my program; version is (*memory) and VERSION is "0.5". 17:09:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:09:55 zzo38: Why is version (*memory) 17:10:05 What type is memory anyway 17:10:05 FreeFull: It is a Z-machine interpreter. 17:10:41 memory is an array of unsigned 8-bits. 17:11:04 uint8_t 17:11:07 ah 17:11:09 zork stuff 17:11:54 As a DOS user, I prefer saw insensitive languages. However, I appear to be a dying breed... 17:12:05 *case 17:12:14 Not saw 17:12:23 Autocorrect fail 17:12:29 DOS autocorrect? 17:12:45 Well, I use DOS as well as other things too. 17:13:17 I do program in BASIC as well as in C. 17:14:01 -!- drlemon has joined. 17:14:44 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:14:59 DHeadshot: What programming languages do you use? 17:16:30 Assembly, pascal, basic, FORTRAN, etc; plus obviously esolangs like whirl and 3code (I know that last one's case sensitive)... 17:18:07 Why do you use pascal 17:18:35 Assembly language of what computers? I have used x86 assembly and 6502 assembly. 17:19:06 I have done x86 and ARM myself 17:19:07 x86 and Z80 17:19:36 I don't think it would be difficult for me to pick up another one 17:19:53 O, and also Z-machine assembly. 17:20:11 I did a little RISC-style at uni but not for any particular CPU. I'd like to learn ARM though... 17:26:28 ARM is for compilers ;p 17:26:52 ARM isn't that bad to write manually 17:28:21 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:28:55 ARM was DESIGNED to write manually - how would you compile for your expansion module with just 32kb of free memory? 17:29:07 O no! Two of my "C" position players are injured, and the remaining one is very susceptible to injury. Now, if they get injured too, I will be disqualified. 17:30:13 Zzo38, I thought you said you were writing IN C, not PLAYING it...? 17:30:59 DHeadshot: Yes, but now I am playing a different game. 17:34:11 DHeadshot: x86 was designed to write manually at the start and look what happened 17:34:30 -!- olsner has joined. 17:35:14 ... It's still fine? 17:35:42 I mean, not the machine-code, but the asm is... 17:36:30 The machine-code's a mess, but then so are most modern CISCs... 17:38:08 Yes, the modern x86 is pretty terrible, and so is the modern ARM, actually. 17:38:25 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:38:46 -!- myname has joined. 17:39:15 what's the cleanest 64bit risc design? 17:39:24 mips or alpha? 17:39:57 I'd assume MIPS, but I haven't seen Alpha... 17:44:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:52:09 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 17:52:45 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 17:59:30 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:59:30 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:59:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:00:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:02:14 some things still use MIPS, so it might not be as clean as it used to be ... 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19:20:02 x86 is a mess, but if you are writing assembly yourself, for a typical x86 operating system, you can ignore most of the complexity 19:20:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:20:21 -!- ion has joined. 19:20:27 if you are writing an OS or reading compiler output, it's a whole different story 19:20:43 lol swapgs instruction 19:21:19 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 270 seconds). 19:21:39 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Quit: Reboot time). 19:22:09 obviously they should make an x86 Lite 19:22:17 amd64 is that, a little 19:22:58 x85 19:23:36 they took out some little-used features and added new, more useful ones 19:23:56 of course by 'took out' I only mean in long mode; they still have a full implementation of the 16- and 32-bit x86 instruction sets as well 19:23:57 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:24:15 -!- sivoais has quit (Client Quit). 19:25:25 also some of the removed features would still be useful in specific circumstances :/ 19:27:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:28:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:28:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:28:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:28:08 isn't that true of any removed feature 19:30:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:31:43 to varying extent, yeah 19:32:38 what I have in mind specifically is that the vestigial support for segmentation in 64-bit mode is not really good enough to implement the kernel security features that some 32-bit OSes have 19:32:58 (but not the common 32-bit OSes) 19:34:24 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 19:34:37 -!- samebcha1e has changed nick to samebchase. 19:36:45 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:37:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:38:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:38:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:38:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:38:40 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:43:29 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:46:46 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:53:45 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:55:18 -!- Gregor has joined. 19:56:58 -!- sivoais has joined. 19:58:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:58:26 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:58:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:59:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:00:01 is there a function such that f' = f . f? 20:00:13 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:00:44 derivation? 20:00:55 and composition 20:01:04 huh? 20:01:17 -!- sivoais has quit (Client Quit). 20:01:27 um, i'm just asking if ' and . mean what i am guessing 20:01:29 Bike, const 0? 20:01:37 f(x) = 0 20:01:40 oerjan: yes 20:01:45 Taneb: yeah i thought of that, but another? 20:02:07 \rainbow{differential equations} 20:02:13 hm polynomials can't work 20:02:35 kmc: it's not a differential equation, it's a function equation B) 20:02:42 because if f has degree n, f.f has degree 2n and f' has degree n-1? 20:02:59 functional 20:03:01 Bike: well f'(x) = f(f(x)) is a differential equation 20:03:04 Something Hyperbolic? 20:03:10 of sorts 20:03:26 kmc: I actually got this equation out of a book as an example of something that isn't a differential equation despite involving a function and its derivatives. 20:03:34 Because it's not about a vector field. 20:03:36 oh 20:03:38 well then 20:03:51 But it's interesting to think about. 20:04:12 sounds like an arbitrary restriction of the term 20:04:47 it's not arbitrary. 20:05:08 Bike: if you get one, tell me :) 20:05:14 One what? 20:05:25 function 20:05:32 taneb already named one. 20:05:41 well, a non trivial one 20:06:50 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 20:06:52 -!- elieser2241 has left. 20:09:42 hm how does the multivariable chain rule work with f(f(x)) 20:09:59 oh hm 20:10:15 it's just f'(f(x))*f'(x) i think 20:10:38 and it's not actually multi 20:12:21 Who was the chap who said that either there's extraterrestial life or there isn't and both possibilities are equally scary? 20:12:33 hm schwartzian transform has nothing to do with either schwartz functions or fourier transforms 20:13:19 Arthur C Clarke 20:14:09 mathematicians: suck at naming things 20:14:37 -!- yonkie__ has joined. 20:15:16 hm wait composition doesn't behave nicely with fourier or laplace transforms i think 20:17:13 -!- ssue__ has joined. 20:18:57 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- yonkie_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- quintopi1 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- oklofok has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- ssue_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- iamcal__ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:18:57 f(f(x)) tends to be "more complicated" than f'(x) in some sense, i think 20:19:15 -!- ssue__ has changed nick to ssue_. 20:20:04 which i mean not as a strict rule but as an intuition you have to escape the validity of 20:21:20 that makes sense 20:21:37 i dunno. what if f is, say, a half-iterate? D^1/2 is way more complicated than D in my mind 20:24:01 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:24:07 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:24:11 -!- quintopia has joined. 20:27:42 -!- elieser224 has joined. 20:27:53 -!- elieser224 has left. 20:28:40 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:28:43 -!- oklofok has joined. 20:28:44 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 20:28:44 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 20:28:44 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 20:30:50 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:33:49 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:34:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:34:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:36:58 -!- ggherdov has joined. 20:37:39 hm f's behavior near x and near f(x) do not need to be related if f isn't particularly nice. which means it should be easy to find a solution which holds only in an interval. 20:39:11 f(x) = 2x near 1, say, and f(x) = 2 near 2. 20:40:24 it then satisfies the equation near 1. 20:40:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:43:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:43:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:44:10 f''(x) = (f(f(x)))' = f'(f(x))*f'(x) = f(f(f(x)))*f(f(x)) 20:44:12 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:45:05 f''(x)/f'(x) = f(f(f(x))) 20:45:20 (ln f(x))' = f(f(f(x))) 20:45:31 um wait 20:45:37 * (ln f'(x))' = f(f(f(x))) 20:46:26 how entirely comprehensible 20:46:36 clear as mud 20:50:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:53:51 -!- sivoais has joined. 20:59:49 -!- sivoais has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:05:08 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:10:12 -!- sacje has joined. 21:16:38 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:17:57 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:21:40 -!- mnoqy has joined. 21:30:57 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:45:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:46:05 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:11:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:15:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:16:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:17:01 mnoqy 22:17:12 hi 22:18:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:21:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:25:35 "William III of England arrived at Brixham in England on 5 November 1688 after setting sail from the Netherlands on 11 November 1688" 22:26:38 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:26:45 kmc, that was around when all the calendars were switching from Julian to Gregorian, iirc 22:26:48 kings are amazing 22:26:53 England's was one of the last to switch 22:27:23 yep 22:27:31 kmc, were you the chap who left #haskell and vowed never to return? 22:27:44 i don't think i vowed never to return........................................ 22:28:00 i have various complaints and probably will not return unless some of them improve 22:28:03 Anyway, I am now beginning to think that that may have been a very good idea 22:28:06 but some already have 22:28:09 stuff like that would be funnier if we had no idea people were switching calendars 22:28:19 yeah I know that you all know about calendars and such 22:28:22 it's just amusing 22:28:56 There is someone who is insisting that we should endeavour to make Applicative instances as different as possible to Monad instances 22:29:03 So ap /= (<*>) et al. 22:29:10 Anyway, goodnight 22:29:26 a lot of eastern europe, russia, asia didn't change until the 20th century 22:29:39 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:30:01 hence the october revolution starting on November 7 (N.S.) 22:30:10 Anyway, goodnight 22:30:13 Wait 22:30:16 anyway goodnight taneb 22:30:16 I already said that 22:30:21 This time I meant it 22:30:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Anyway, goodnight). 22:30:31 (any justification for making applicative very different from monad?) 22:31:04 I think people being wrong on things isn't the biggest problem with #haskell. 22:31:40 what do you think are the biggest problems? 22:32:18 I don't know. 22:35:41 why as different as possible 22:41:26 -!- elieser224 has joined. 22:43:34 `run e | sed '/lis/lies/' 22:43:35 sed: -e expression #1, char 7: extra characters after command 22:43:38 oops 22:43:43 `run e | sed 's/lis/lies/' 22:43:44 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:44:25 -!- elieser224 has left. 22:45:51 now that was a downer 22:45:54 huh? 22:45:55 `e 22:45:56 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:46:02 what are you replacing.... 22:46:05 oh that was fixed 22:46:18 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:46:29 SORRY MERGE ERROR 22:46:34 k 22:51:55 oerjan: hi ban elieser224 22:51:56 oh 22:52:04 did i make another typo in the naem lol 22:52:04 `e 22:52:06 elieser224: ¿por qué con frecuencia altas y bajas? 22:53:09 oerjan: btw if you know spanish please make the message be right 22:53:55 material implication is so easy 23:01:30 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 23:02:07 -!- elieser2241 has left. 23:02:55 oerjan: i can't take it 23:03:15 hm... 23:03:26 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:03:47 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!eliser*@*. 23:03:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:03:58 good ban 23:04:34 oerjan: you may wish to reconsider that ban. 23:04:43 in particular I'd recommend the addition of an e and a 22. 23:04:54 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:04:58 The 22 is not quite as necessary. 23:04:59 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!eliser*@*. 23:05:06 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!elisere22*@*. 23:05:11 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:05:12 um. 23:05:19 I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'good' ban 23:05:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:05:27 oerjan: you may wish to look at elieser2241's hostname again :P 23:05:35 apparently jsvine agrees with me 23:06:28 -!- jsvine has joined. 23:08:24 -!- jsvine has quit (Client Quit). 23:08:28 oerjan: (the e is after the eli, not the r. or is this intentional.) 23:08:53 no it's attentional 23:09:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:09:14 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!elisere22*@*. 23:09:53 -!- augur has joined. 23:10:00 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!elieser22*@*. 23:10:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:10:17 the slippery slope has landed 23:17:57 `pastelogs oerjan> @check.* 23:18:15 *- .* 23:18:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19489 23:30:48 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 23:31:20 Rebol reminds me of what I once expressed as a wish for how Lisp worked 23:32:57 (if (< 0 1) '(print "Hello") '(print "Goodbye")) 23:45:47 -!- sacje has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:46:34 -!- sacje has joined. 23:58:31 we can't always get what we want 23:59:21 THAT'S JUST THE MAN KEEPING YOU DOWN