00:01:28 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:01:40 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:03:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:10:44 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:40:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:41:25 Do you know if the Linux kernel sends information of virtual console and login status to the POST display? Such thing might be useful for security purpose, possibly. 00:41:25 zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 00:41:28 ?messages 00:41:29 boily said 7h 20s ago: I do. 00:41:49 You do, do you? 00:45:40 I don't think you can login on linux while the POST is still running. 00:47:24 Jafet: Yes, but I think POST messages are just sent to one of the I/O ports on the PC, they just won't be displayed on the screen unless the POST is running, or something like that, isn't it? 00:49:22 hi zzo38 00:49:31 You missed Mr. Svine. 00:49:46 he'll be back 00:50:25 -!- elieser224 has joined. 00:51:00 -!- elieser224 has left. 00:52:46 Will he be back when I'm here? 00:52:50 That seems unlikely 00:56:47 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog 00:56:57 neverhood++ etc. 00:58:44 oh is that what that is. 01:05:37 -!- sprocklem has joined. 01:09:13 hey mnoqy what do you think of CoYoSet 01:09:17 (vs. CoYoTe) 01:09:23 s/\.// 01:09:49 -!- ajf has joined. 01:09:51 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deviating_Percolator 01:10:09 somehow I managed to miss the Discussion tab on my language 01:10:11 heh 01:12:59 elliott: imo https on esolangs plz thx hth 01:13:09 what 01:13:41 ajf: I think we should have https: support on esolangs.org. 01:13:56 what's the point of it on such a site? 01:14:03 PUT A/ This now reads "PRINT Z" <-- i don't get this 01:14:23 ajf: Well, people log in with passwords and things? 01:14:43 Also, people know what esolangs I'm reading about. 01:15:08 I may not want my interest in Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download to be public. 01:15:52 without HTTPS, not only can people read whan you're seeing, they can tamper with it in arbitrary ways 01:15:58 including taking any action you're allowed to take 01:16:48 Right. 01:16:59 I don't have an account so I'm less concerned about that. 01:17:32 so when is the interview? 01:17:49 Tomorrow, I think? 01:18:13 I'm also not that concerned about people tampering with the traffic and showing me wrong esolang information. 01:18:15 Bike: let me explain 01:18:33 wait 01:18:34 OHH 01:18:35 sorry 01:18:39 that should say "PUT Z" 01:18:41 what time? 01:18:42 eheh 01:18:46 ok, that makes sense 01:18:58 i was looking for alterations of u or t in vain 01:18:59 imo: fix 01:19:12 fixed 01:19:38 might be nice if you made it a bit less encoding-dependent by allowing quoting characters 01:20:11 encoding-dependent? 01:20:15 DEFINE A TO '/' instead of DEFINE A TO FORTYSEVEN, though then you lose some of the ancient charm 01:20:24 ah 01:20:26 but it's not C 01:20:31 what? 01:20:35 it deliberately uses ASCII 01:20:40 well 01:20:43 you'll like zzo 01:20:48 it's compatible with ISO 464 01:20:51 strictly speaking 01:20:51 :D 01:21:02 er 01:21:05 ISO 646 01:21:28 should be an esolang compliant with "Rolling bearings -- Radial bearings with locating snap ring -- Dimensions and tolerances" imo 01:21:39 :P 01:22:02 ++ 01:22:12 I'd really like to see if someone smarter than me can find a means to write real programs in this thing 01:22:16 hm, i could as about the difference between ASCII and this ISO, or i could not do that and remain blissfully ignorant 01:22:19 as 01:22:22 kkkkkkkkkkk 01:22:35 ISO 3103 01:23:36 'The original version (ISO 646 IRV) differed from ASCII only in that in code point 0024, ASCII's dollar sign ($) was replaced by the international currency symbol (¤). The final 1991 version of the code ISO 646:1991... is identical to ASCII." 01:23:46 you know who proposed switching to ¤? communists 01:24:24 ajf: maybe your 'author reflections' should go in the discussion page? 01:24:47 also there are a bunch of "national variants" of ISO 646, but I don't think they're part of ISO 646 itself, but ISO 646 does at least specify certain characters that have to be there ("Invariant subset") 01:25:18 C digraphs/trigraphs exist so that you can write C programs in a national variant using only the invariant subset 01:25:32 so the rest of the characters may or may not be used in valid deviating percolator programs 01:25:41 how exciting 01:25:58 somehow they thought that 'int main() ä å' was less readable than 'int main() ??< ??>' 01:26:24 when is C getting pentagraphs 01:33:23 kmc: perhaps so that they will always be displayed and printout the same on different computers 01:34:52 -!- ajf has quit. 01:36:49 The TV caption set also is mostly ASCII but with a few differences. Digi-RGB-Plus also uses a superset of the TV caption set (the added stuff isn't printable characters though). 01:37:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:38:51 what's the TV caption set? i know it has ♫ 01:39:27 kmc: Yes, that is one of the things it has. But you can look it up in Wikipedia or something; I do not entirely remember at this time. 01:39:31 ok 01:40:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIA-608#Characters 01:41:43 sorry, ♪ not ♫ 01:42:02 Yes 01:42:09 -!- kmc has set topic: ♪ LLVM, Z-machine, Nintendo Famicom, etc ♪ | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric. 01:42:39 Yes, now the TOPIC message is better. Now make it into actual music. 01:42:48 i can't compose music 01:43:16 (One format for such a thing is "ANSI music" which makes MML in ANSI escape codes, although I don't know of any programs that will play ANSI music.) 01:43:41 MML? 01:47:07 Music Macro Language 01:55:45 can you compose music zzo38 01:56:00 quintopia: Somewhat. 01:56:14 let's hear some 01:56:30 zzo38 can famicompose 01:56:43 Is that like posing with a famicom 01:56:48 so close 01:56:53 Is he photogenic? 01:56:56 i want to famicomlisten 01:57:10 quintopia: Then you will need some .NSF player program. 01:57:36 i wasn't kidding that ¤ was proposed by communists 01:57:44 by 1991 the communists had bigger things to worry about 01:57:47 which communists 01:57:54 don't remember 01:57:59 kmc: I didn't expect you do be kidding, but I also don't expect that to be particularly relevant. 01:58:23 zzo38: Did you leave yesterday because I was badgering you? 01:58:31 shachaf: No, it was because I was sleeping. 01:58:42 "Highly dubious since almost all the Communist nations use Cyrillic script" not really true 01:59:04 http://2a03.free.fr/?p=pub&dir=zzo38 01:59:23 kmc: what, who the heck wrote that 01:59:32 someone on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACurrency_(typography) 01:59:34 "some foo' on wikipedia" 01:59:37 yep 01:59:51 chinese written in cyrillic is scary 01:59:55 haha i bet 02:00:31 yeah but communist == russian no? 02:00:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillization_of_Chinese 02:00:57 I guess it's just as scary as Romanization of chinese, really 02:01:21 and without the ridiculous baggage of postal map 02:30:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:32:45 -!- Bike has joined. 02:35:12 kmc: came on can't you tell me how to crack the hash and call it a day? 02:43:58 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:46:25 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 02:57:11 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 03:02:05 -!- elieser2241 has left. 03:10:21 3 Weird Old Hash-Cracking Tricks 03:13:50 can u decrytp my md5 password i forgot it 03:14:48 1234 03:14:54 thx 03:14:56 copumpkin: we don't need your parodies, we have the real thing in ##crypto 03:17:00 I used to hang out in there 03:20:24 That sounds entertaining, I should sit there and watch 03:20:34 Sgeo............................................................ 03:20:45 You missed it anyway. 03:21:31 :< 03:26:51 okay shachaf 03:26:53 the time has come 03:27:18 uh oh 03:27:27 what was that story you keep bugging me to read? 03:27:34 I have decided to get it over with 03:27:45 Oh. 03:28:00 Whoops, it's gone. 03:28:05 The PDF was replaced with a new PDF. 03:28:05 lol 03:28:16 Hmm... 03:28:16 :( 03:29:21 This suspicious Russian website seems to have a copy. 03:29:50 (It's also in a book. I have either one or two copies of the book.) 03:29:52 http://xn----7sbb3aiknde1bb0dyd.xn--p1ai/index.php?id=78642 03:29:57 Wow, that's one suspicious URL. 03:30:55 it's a unicode one 03:31:02 Yes, I know. Punycode. 03:31:08 Those tend to be up to no good. 03:31:10 racist 03:31:17 https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=glacierpeak.sno.wednet.edu/teachers/bjuhl/docs/Soph%2520English/Second%2520Semester/Alienation,%2520Tolerance,%2520Cyrano/Related%2520Poems,%2520Articles,%2520Short%2520Stories,%2520Etc/Liking%2520What%2520You%2520See%2520Portrait%2520Version.doc 03:31:22 That's also a copy. 03:31:26 ##crypto has surprisingly little of the thing we were just complaining about 03:32:07 you mean copumpkin trolling? 03:32:11 I can fix that 03:32:36 haha 03:33:01 shachaf: cool 03:33:49 читать-онлайн.рф 03:33:58 read-online 03:34:42 -!- elieser224 has joined. 03:34:56 -!- elieser224 has left. 03:35:01 Why did clarku.edu change their welcome/placement/pdf/reading.pdf? :-( 03:35:06 (I have the feeling this story isn't actually meant to be floating around on the Internet.) 03:35:26 maybe they changed the reading for the placement exam?!? 03:35:39 kmc: Yes. I meant why they changed that. 03:35:42 (But maybe the net result is that people buy more copies of the book!) 03:47:31 can you obfuscate Latin letters using Punycode? 03:47:41 sort of analogous to overlong UTF-8 03:53:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:54:33 kmc: I don't know, but I suppose if it exist it would be useful for making coding of ASCII characters that aren't allowed in domain names, or to make them case sensitive. 03:58:55 It doesn't seems so; Punycode can only encode code points starting at 128. However, it might be possible to encode numbers outside of the Unicode range. 04:13:23 -!- comex has changed nick to Sir_Burpalot. 04:13:52 -!- Sir_Burpalot has changed nick to comex. 04:22:06 котыква 04:38:11 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:47:10 shachaf: your name sounds like the russian word for "cabinet", I guess? 04:47:32 шкаф? 04:47:35 yeah 04:47:40 It's more like шахаф. 04:47:45 i suppose so 04:47:55 The ch is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_fricative 04:48:06 some day I should learn what all of those are 04:48:16 There's a Play button on that page! 04:48:34 ▶ 05:11:37 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:16:29 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 05:17:17 what was that science fiction novel / set of stories / something that I was told here to read 05:17:40 You mean the book that story came from? Or an unrelated book? 05:18:32 no some other book 05:19:05 it was a while ago and i don't have other information :'( 05:19:23 in one of the first chapters the aliens send information on how to do FTL communication 05:23:24 (but I should also read Stories of Your Life and Others, yes) 05:23:47 I don't remember this. 05:23:56 Maybe oerjan will remember since he logreads. 05:28:46 The first four astrological signs have the same letters as the DNA. 05:29:15 I just noticed this now. 05:29:23 Where's uracil? 05:29:53 Uracil is used with RNA, not DNA, isn't it? 05:30:34 shachaf: well, anyway, what else should I read 05:30:48 um 05:30:52 i could try to download some smullyan ebooks 05:30:52 what have you read 05:30:53 which ones 05:30:58 that depends 05:31:12 do you want "philosophical" or "puzzle" or "academic" or what 05:31:56 philosophical i think 05:32:40 I think this correspondence is a strange coincidence, isn't it? 05:32:50 yeah but rna is important man 05:33:09 Bike: Yes, it is important, but not relevant to what I am saying. 05:36:10 kmc: _The Tao Is Silent_, _This Book Needs No Title_, _5000 B.C._ 05:36:32 At least those are three main ones I read. I like them. 05:37:27 I have wanted to get some books from Smullyan but I don't have any, yet. 05:37:36 also i think i told you you should read _Impro_ by Keith Johnstone 05:37:47 zzo38: Do it! 05:38:15 shachaf: Well, I didn't find it at the store, yet, but perhaps I can find it in a different store; I will try again later. 05:39:16 zzo38: Perhaps you can find it on the Internet. 05:43:28 shachaf: and which one first? 05:44:05 The order I gave is reasonable. 05:44:37 I think I read the second one first. I don't know that it matters much. 05:57:54 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:39:36 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:42:34 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 07:09:37 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 07:10:02 -!- tswett has joined. 07:10:02 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 07:10:02 -!- tswett has joined. 07:23:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:40:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:41:05 kmc: is "vega" a prank 07:41:11 ? 07:41:27 the "greek letter" 07:42:25 heh 07:42:27 do not know 07:42:45 what about vanna and vomma 07:43:11 help 07:46:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:50:56 hjalp 07:57:51 kmc: hjälp? 07:59:15 yeah 07:59:56 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ 08:00:08 (as what's-'is-name would say) 08:01:07 ååååååååååååååååååååååål 08:06:48 Was jsvine the reporter? <-- yes, and presumably still is, unless what he read in here made him want to ragequit his job 08:07:22 cpressey: People who are not in #esoteric don't exist. 08:07:27 Why do you think we want to keep you here? 08:07:46 see, there's that solipsism thing again 08:07:54 I'm not a solipsist! 08:08:01 I think *all* of us here in #esoteric exist. 08:08:05 And we're all different people. 08:08:46 i wonder if philosophers have a word for that one though 08:08:49 "This is the kind of people I have to interact with, because of my job? *ragequits*" 08:13:03 are laptops PCs? 08:13:29 um 08:13:45 laptops are NPCs hth 08:13:49 maybe i should just abort this line of inquiry 08:15:49 my actual question is something more like: one of my pet peeves is the phrase "post-PC world" because I don't think programmers will stop using PCs any time soon (mainly for the dual monitors amirite) and so it's a silly phrase but maybe we'll just start calling non-portable computers "workstations" again and everything will be OK 08:16:12 I thought "PC" meant "IBM PC compatible". 08:17:02 i don't think people who use the phrase "post-PC world" are thinking quite that specifically about the term 08:17:36 and i didn't get the impression "post-PC world" == "omg Apple won" 08:18:28 No, it's "omg ARM computers won" 08:19:46 the context i've seen it in, it seemed more about mobile devices... and if those include laptops, then ok, sure, I can develop software on a netbook; but i've never tried developing software on anything smaller -- i'm sure it's possible, but i'm not sure anyone'd want to 08:21:16 oh, Steve Jobs apparently coined/popularized that phrase. so maybe i've got it entirely wrong 08:22:06 "[Jobs] said that PCs are going to be "like trucks" in that they'll still be around and useful for certain work, but only a smaller percentage of the users will need one." ok, that's actually sane. 08:22:31 i still think we should go back to calling them workstations, though 08:25:28 "The IEEE will accept: any IBM-PC (or 100% compatible) disk format: 3.5-in/720k/l.44 Mb" they're very modern over there. 08:26:08 (The "IBM PC" mention reminded me of reading that a while ago.) 08:27:20 And I think we should start calling them workhorses. 08:27:35 There's probably a plethora of horse-related slang vocabulary that could be adapted. 08:30:49 hmmm, bridle, stirrups, feedbag... well, i know i've worked in cubicle-less environments where i would've really have liked to wear a set of blinders, might that count? 08:31:17 headphones look less silly but they only mask out aural noise 08:32:00 i don't like this world because i don't want the line between people who make programs and people who merely use them to be so sharp 08:32:50 in apple's world you have to pay another thousand bucks for the machine that can make programs *and* you have to run all the programs you make by apple first 08:33:35 it's true that most people will never make a program, but many of the people who do make programs didn't set out to do so in a spend-a-thousand-bucks way; they just stumbled into it here or there 08:34:17 kmc: i understand the feeling, but also, there's that whole "division of labour" thing. 08:34:51 imo delegating the ability to write programs to someone else is like delegating the ability to read to someone else 08:35:11 What about the ability to read programs 08:35:13 but also, like I said, I'm fine with the division of labor, I just don't think the divide should be so entrenched 08:35:26 Jafet: nobody has that 08:36:15 Reverse Engineering And Debugging 08:36:35 before you can read programs, someone needs the ability to write programs that can be read 08:36:50 Actually, software engineering is a bit unusual in that it is unregulated 08:36:58 Most other fields of engineering are 08:37:07 kmc: i don't like where it's going very much either. having said that, ... i can change the oil in my car and maybe fix a flat, ... 08:37:16 maybe I'm romanticizing the past but I thought in the 80s you could buy a 'home computer' (incl. the Apple ][!) and play some games and run some business programs and then one day, if you need to do something new, you can learn BASIC quickly and write a little BASIC program without being like "I must buy a totally different machine and also get a 4 year CS degree before I can do anything" 08:37:38 we've sort of gone backwards in that regard 08:38:21 Jafet: I'm not sure what engineering means but I suspect "software engineering" is not related 08:38:55 In the 2010s you could buy a 'home computer' (incl. a Mac!) and play some games and run some business programs and then one day, if you need to do something new, you can learn any one of ten different languages and write a program 08:39:13 Jafet: or you can buy an iPad and not be able to do that 08:39:24 and Apple wants a world eventually where most people only have an iPad and not a computer 08:39:30 that's what we were talking about, that's what I'm complaining about 08:39:42 a software engineer is more like a ship's engineer than a professional engineer... sort of. 08:39:51 Why are we caring about what Apple wants 08:40:03 Jafet: because they are one of the richest and most powerful entities in the world? 08:40:13 why do we care what the US government wants? because it affects us 08:40:19 Jafet: well, a lot of people want that (Apple or no) too, it would seem 08:40:42 i learned recently that >50% of mobile device use actually happens *at home* 08:40:45 Apple isn't going to take over your PC, or probably your Mac for that matter 08:40:46 I,I more like an auto mechanic than a quantum mechanic 08:40:59 most attempts I've seen to justify why programming isn't engineering end up being mystical nonsense and confirmation of existing biases in the audience 08:40:59 i might be misremembering the percentage but it's surprisingly large 08:41:30 for some reason we aren't happy thinking of ourselves as engineers, we have to be special snowflake hacker wizard painter ninjas 08:41:47 kmc: professional engineers write proofs. 08:41:50 Programming is like rock music. You get a wacky idea, and pull some friends together in your garage and hope a big company decides to fund your work later on. 08:41:51 srsly 08:41:57 i'm just a regular snowflake :'( 08:41:58 that's convenient because it justifies any personal quirks, any bizarre work style, puts the blame 100% on management for being unmanageable 08:42:34 Jafet: except rock bands give up a lot more equity :) 08:42:57 Yeah, don't join a rock band (you also need actual talent) 08:42:59 an engineer produces a document that proves that the design meets the spec. proofs about software are hard (=expensive) so no one does them (unless lives or a whole lot of money are at stake.) 08:44:05 I don't think most civil engineers write proofs of anything 08:44:46 I was at a civil engineer student meeting thing in Berkeley. 08:44:54 a ship's engineer, on the other hand, keeps the ship running. which, in the internet age, is a lot like SHIT IS THAT MY PAGER 08:45:02 There was a presentation about startups. 08:45:14 can't escape :'( 08:45:25 did they disrupt bridge building 08:45:43 You're in the bay area, shachaf. Everything is about startups. 08:45:51 I know. 08:46:16 They talked about Y Combinator, this competition that happens twice a year, once in Boston and once in CA. If the judges of the competition like you you get more money. 08:46:21 maybe i shouldn't move there :/ 08:46:35 shachaf: heh 08:46:40 not very accurate... 08:47:04 Yes. 08:47:36 how can we use civil engineering to solve the problems of rich 20somethings by gluing together a few existing parts 08:47:45 Anyway it was funny. My friend the civil engineering major suggested that I go but I didn't expect that. 08:47:53 CEaaS -- civil engineering as a service 08:48:17 It's like an AIRBNB but for MUNICIPAL SEWER SYSTEMS! 08:48:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:49:14 i've got a bridge to give you a special 90% local deal on 08:49:30 Who, me? 08:49:36 It's like a KICKSTARTER but for FUNDING RAPID TRANSIT SYSTEMS! 08:49:47 i would be all over that 08:49:53 Taneb: Yes, you. 08:50:01 Be careful kmc, you might actually get investors for that. 08:50:24 kmc: should caltrain be replaced with bart 08:50:34 whos bart 08:50:43 lexande asked me when he was in palo alto 08:50:45 mnoqy asks the tough questions 08:50:57 mnoqy: your bart 08:50:57 bart is a guy who shows up at your house with a rickshaw 08:51:10 shachaf: this would result in it being grade separated and electrified 08:51:12 so yes 08:51:23 (or a rickroll, or a rickrain) 08:51:26 mnoqy: hey ask me a tough question 08:52:10 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:52:26 hey mnoqy do you know about trains 08:52:33 no whats a train 08:52:36 do you like trains 08:52:43 i've heard good things about them 08:52:45 y/y 08:52:58 have you ever been on a train 08:53:05 mnoqy: hey how's well doing 08:53:08 ive been on the kiddie train at the zoo 08:53:20 well's doing well 08:53:28 good 08:55:26 whats well 08:55:33 is y/y an emoticon of some sort 08:55:36 all is well 08:55:37 now that's a tough question 08:55:58 looks kind of like a lizard with its hands up maybe 08:56:01 kmc's a tough person 08:56:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:56:49 help i think i've reached the edge of the terrarium y/y 08:57:13 y7y might be even better 08:57:22 I'm a lizard and I give up y/y 08:57:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:58:23 help im not seeing it y7y 09:00:08 how doth the little mnoqydile / improve his shining tail 09:01:23 there are at least six Linux kernel source trees in my home directory 09:01:34 that sounds bad 09:01:55 oh no is linux a virus 09:02:32 Divine and Moral Songs for Children 09:02:43 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Against_Idleness_and_Mischief 09:03:03 mnoqy: http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4998758826115227 is as close as i've found so far 09:03:04 must sleep now 09:03:34 rotate it a bit visually 09:03:38 kmc: You have a flight in, what, 10 hours? 09:04:07 yes 09:04:21 more like 11 09:04:38 Let's settle on 10 hours and 40 minutes. 09:05:03 10 hours and 60 minutes would be much more like 11 09:05:40 That I am taught to know / The danger I was in; / By nature, and by practice too, / A wretched slave to sin. 09:06:09 That I am led to see / I can do nothing well; / And whither shall a sinner flee, / To save himself from hell? 09:06:14 "good stuff" 09:07:22 :) 09:08:13 i should get copies of this book and hand it out to children 09:08:33 A TRAIN from Nice to Geneva cost the same amount of money (25 EUR) as the airport BUS from Lugano to Malpensa, even though the distance is like twenty times that. 09:08:56 That's the power of TRAINS, I believe. 09:09:16 fizzie: hey can i be a train 09:09:18 when i grow up 09:09:32 The little engine that could. 09:25:09 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:34:55 Is '-)XX_.Xa_$-(' a proper numeric format string? 09:36:49 I wonder if the ASCII subset of x86 machine code is turing-complete 09:37:13 Assuming some storage device on the COM1 port with infinite storage 09:37:47 -!- olsner has joined. 09:37:57 FreeFull: Maybe it is, I think people have tried to do things like this sometimes. 09:40:53 I know it is possible to write DOS programs using ASCII 09:41:23 FreeFull: Assuming you mean the printable characters of ASCII, people habitually write shellcode using that. 09:41:52 But I'm also thinking it means you can't access certain instructions, call instructions with certain characters or access certain memory adresses 09:42:10 fizzie: Yeah, printable 09:42:19 kernel entirely written in the ASCII subset perhaps? 09:42:23 fizzie: Since otherwise there wouldn't be any problem 09:42:28 Yes, although maybe it may be possible to make self-modifying codes or whatever 09:42:36 FreeFull: Well, ASCII in general would limit you to half of the instructions. 09:42:49 I'm reasonably certain you can access any memory address, just circuitously. 09:42:58 lifthrasiir: On a PC, at least, I don't think you can because the MBR code is required to end with a certain code. 09:43:01 Allowing for self-modifying code, probably also do anything you want. 09:43:21 zzo38: AA55? 09:43:48 though the kernel does not have to include a boot loader 09:43:59 lifthrasiir: Yes, like that, and 0xAA isn't the printable ASCII range. 09:44:05 fizzie: Probably through modifying the code as it's being executed 09:44:50 You don't need self-modification for arbitrary memory access, though; just some indirect addressing modes and general arithmetics. 09:45:11 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:47:20 Apparently there's at least one converter for generic x86 code to purely alphanumeric ASCII. 09:48:03 (That one is based on self-modifying code; encodes the original code in some alphanumeric format; at runtime, decodes and executes.) 09:48:28 (Probably there's more than one.) 09:51:02 I have discovered what feather is. 09:51:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 09:51:29 $STUPID_TIME_TRAVEL_REFERENCING_REPLY 09:51:45 Huh? 09:51:47 (One is required by the conventions whenever Feather is mentioned.) 09:51:49 feather is feather.perl6.nl 09:52:27 Yes, well, one is required also when it's about some other feather altogether. Them's the rules. 09:53:37 fizzie sounds almost Dutch with your pronunciation 09:53:57 "je" is a Dutch diminutive, you know. 09:54:03 ANY DUTCH PEOPLE HERE 09:54:08