< 1368316816 566543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're terrible < 1368316828 489604 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm this channel. checkmate < 1368316838 996150 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can all be terrible together < 1368316860 596008 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you, you hate me, we're an awful family < 1368316955 914238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :we can all be terrible together | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1368317661 487571 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1368317676 905502 :Phantom___Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368317823 621669 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what suddenly seems really weird? almost every organism uses the exact same mapping from DNA codons to amino acids. What's Up With That < 1368317837 330109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they follow the RFC < 1368317860 548671 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look if i know anything about programming it's that no one follows the standard < 1368317875 99217 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your secret, god < 1368317895 28000 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe god just smites anything with too different a translation. < 1368317906 50999 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :billions of uppity prokaryotes smited every day < 1368318559 780104 :Lumpio_!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :Lumpio- < 1368318733 935465 :Guest36943!~SirCmpwn@c-75-70-167-247.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1368318734 147390 :Guest36943!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1368318738 5499 :Guest36943!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn NICK :SirCmpwn < 1368318882 760438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: god is the only person who can enforce MUST NOTs < 1368318896 648177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should rename MUST NOT to WHY NOT TRY < 1368318969 686053 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD is still putting out songs :) < 1368318981 516375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :openbsd still committing crimes against music < 1368319013 665816 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html < 1368319069 622367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368319073 700695 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THOU SHALT NOT < 1368319080 272610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:17:03: you know what suddenly seems really weird? almost every organism uses the exact same mapping from DNA codons to amino acids. What's Up With That < 1368319092 973367 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1368319105 825256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well isn't that, like, the first thing you have to develop to self-replicate < 1368319123 13007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no first you need to write the tests < 1368319125 915248 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pond-erosa Puff wouldn't take no guff < 1368319137 142229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop doctor whoing sgeo < 1368319147 429063 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that depends if you buy the RNA world thing < 1368319149 801062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you to watch farscape, fucking watch it, it's way better < 1368319155 138107 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case RNA would be first < 1368319155 633055 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pond-erosa Puff has nothing to do with Doctor Who < 1368319162 165381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE POINT STILL STANDS < 1368319177 384838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you also told me to stop reading Homestuck. < 1368319180 817976 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see why cell membraney things couldn't have come around first, at least hypothetically < 1368319183 823069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, I guess I did. < 1368319197 198688 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like homestuck stopped reading you (think about it) < 1368319215 119431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, see, fate wants you to do what i say < 1368319226 115880 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the level of variation is interesting, mitochondria and plastids have slightly different schemes < 1368319231 850268 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do a few obscure fungi and things like that < 1368319260 10312 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...when did fungi diverge from everything else < 1368319280 369372 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly a fucking long time ago < 1368319294 236013 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iunno, cambrian maybe) < 1368319306 629374 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OpenBSD song should I listen to? < 1368319316 118546 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cambrian's a pretty good guess for when anything that fundamental happened imo < 1368319323 259927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the cambrian and there is time for evolving < 1368319333 760581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the farscape one < 1368319396 621184 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"around 1,500 million years ago" says wikipedia < 1368319405 529959 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so way precambrian oops < 1368319647 649355 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION might go start reading Watchmen
< 1368319843 925386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just trying to make me hate you < 1368319846 590960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mission < 1368319847 557172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1368319849 888377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accomplished < 1368319873 617180 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a watchman fan? < 1368320048 437958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he's just COMMITTED to not watching farscape even though i've told him a thousand times < 1368320080 174418 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am forced to conclude that he has an inverted sense of good < 1368320106 564082 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :antimoral < 1368320534 760415 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1368320534 973853 :adams.freenode.net TOPIC #esoteric :is now the focus of a legal battle between Pull My Finger and iFart | Chinese graphics card problem resolved! (Again!) | I +JmU UTF-7 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1368320645 46727 :comex`!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368320647 104015 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368320649 779178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368320755 772417 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1368320816 880107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1368320834 627983 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1368320852 89411 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368320857 220092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem a proper conclusion given the available premises. < 1368320868 367987 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368320948 147038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ok look < 1368320955 704703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premise: farscape is good < 1368320963 418741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premise: doctor who is fucking awful these days < 1368320983 648458 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premise: one will tend to watch things that are good, and avoid things that are bad < 1368320995 824355 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premise: sgeo watches doctor who and does not watch farscape < 1368320996 755954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q. < 1368320997 798880 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e. < 1368320998 352167 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d. < 1368321008 416165 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dispute premises 2 and 3 < 1368321042 596712 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if I had time I would watch Farscape < 1368321050 894230 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it occurs to me that I do have time. < 1368321066 541140 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about premises 1 and 2, but it can be a matter of opinion or of context, and there are other reasons too so 3 is not perfect either. Also, different people might like different thing, even if one is good otherwise. < 1368321086 555404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the time you are spending watching doctor who where are you not understanding this < 1368321089 378279 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your syllogism's showing some serious holes phantom!! < 1368321096 335766 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I agree. < 1368321110 549387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :premise: i disagree and i am right < 1368321114 259503 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I will watch more Farscape. < 1368321121 733447 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I especially disagree with the conclusion that premise 3 applies to sgeo < 1368321123 414454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although does Amazon keep track of watched videos? < 1368321131 416070 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a long time since I assumed sgeo to be a rational actor < 1368321154 953771 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, that would make it annoying to keep track of which ep I'm on, unless I stick with Hulu < 1368321177 6315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1368321188 214510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have I done that's so irrational? < 1368321339 804358 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368321357 443544 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368321510 78077 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368323708 748406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368323826 553447 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1368323826 757872 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1368324611 950374 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368324882 29704 :augur!~augur@c-69-138-251-193.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368325033 581892 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if PH would rather him watch Farscape or finish DS9
< 1368325142 96177 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368325159 871388 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368325186 952287 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368325589 870698 :carado_!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368325591 337348 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1368325606 246249 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368327114 707143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: teach me about china < 1368327162 60857 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do u want 2 kno < 1368327180 870842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i just realised i have no idea how communist china came to be a thing and that's pretty embarrassing! < 1368327185 913137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know like 0 history < 1368327193 182249 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :中華人民共和国？ < 1368327212 241822 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well ok lessee < 1368327214 163856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also know like 0 chinese alt. japanese < 1368327215 285705 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :中華人民共和国（笑） < 1368327239 164727 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm not gonna type it in right, sue me. < 1368327240 737264 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1910 china was ruled by the qing dynasty, who were foreign (fsvo "foreign") manchus ruling over the han < 1368327259 11588 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1911 the xinhua revolution happened and the monarchy got fucked < 1368327270 397086 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I'm laughing at the fact that they call themselves a democracy < 1368327278 587237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i skimmed the wikipedia article ``chinese civil war'' and it seems that roughly half of it is usa. even in chinese history there is no escape < 1368327286 744324 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is usa"? < 1368327292 554802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things the usa did. < 1368327296 849773 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well yeah < 1368327297 587767 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't. They call themselves a People's Republic. < 1368327301 5902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in china, hth) < 1368327313 576871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay continue < 1368327318 900682 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the republic was stable for about five minutes before the "warlord era" started, which was fucking crazy < 1368327322 762923 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll notice there is no 民主主義 in there. < 1368327332 152858 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of generals/warlords/etc ruling oer their own areas, killing people, etc < 1368327347 175247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :love those five minute republics < 1368327360 664175 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Republic, democracy, close enough < 1368327364 169598 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably translated it wrong. < 1368327386 779603 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If making a contest for text adventure game, and people can vote on the different things about the game, what should be the possible things to vote on? < 1368327389 120975 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by like uh, 1930 probably, there was a "«'stable'»" group called the Kuomintang, or KMT for short < 1368327394 240269 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were also commies (not yet under mao) < 1368327395 429628 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern times a "republic" is a non-monarchal state. < 1368327403 492700 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are definitely not under a monarchy. < 1368327420 159796 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then japan invaded (oh shit!!) and set up a puppet state in manchuria (i.e. the northern... half... kinda) < 1368327422 149504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to watch some Farscape
< 1368327439 701281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with you japan < 1368327441 110699 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the KMT and communists "cooperated" to get the japanese out, which they didn't do < 1368327462 459310 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Imperial Japan was basically a "fuck you we wanna conquer the world" state. < 1368327476 158436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we did that too < 1368327476 385386 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then WWII happened (or like, it was part of WWII, or well fuck history) and japan lost as you may have heard < 1368327478 338481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo we were better at it < 1368327489 447265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: michael bay told me all about that < 1368327497 662287 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the soviet union declared war on japan and - i want to emphasize this - invaded manchuria and took it over in eleven days < 1368327504 2789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the kmt's deal also < 1368327522 621471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear they're taiwan now (file under: things i read on wikipedia five minutes ago) < 1368327538 816524 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kmt were at that time a semi-fascist, capitalistish, democratishsorta party that the West liked < 1368327549 764898 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read: "not communist". < 1368327551 819251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like america then :-D :-D :-D < 1368327563 422711 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway so the soviet union invaded the north and as you might expect they were more sympathetic to the communists < 1368327593 898036 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the chinese civil war happened, again, and a bajillion people died and the KMT retreated to Taiwan < 1368327616 190297 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and taiwan's history is itself kind of crazy) < 1368327636 525779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just like, communist party said "job done, time for Complete Communism" and that was it?? < 1368327649 335172 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i missed the long march. well back in the 30s the KMT had some big anti-commie campaign and the communists went on this horrible grueling march during which Mao was leaderful and that's how he got into power. < 1368327673 894914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: help out with march, become communist leader??? < 1368327675 885549 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, after pushing the KMT out they were more or less in control, insofar as you can be in control of an area the size of China less than a decade after the most violent war in recorded history. < 1368327699 753706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't even do the communist ritual or anything??? < 1368327711 179571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no WONDER china is such a mess [laugh track] < 1368327731 957795 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to get into history in the communist era i really don't know that as well (which is saying something) < 1368327759 934085 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like the great leap forward happened, durin which mao and other leaders did some increeeeedibly stupid things, such as using lysenko's theories (years after the soviets had kind of abandoned them) < 1368327777 183581 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid things killed like what, 50 million people probably, from starvation etc < 1368327783 904811 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo that kinda sucked. < 1368327835 970910 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then after that Mao was like "food? NO man what you need is ENCOURAGEMENT" and the cultural revolution happened, which like burned down temples and stuff but got those kids PUMPED about COMMUNISM that's RAD! < 1368327840 671980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good thing nobody has invented a time machine because imo the guilt re: all the stuff you have to spend a lot of effort going to fix would be totally lame < 1368327861 704164 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read that story "wikihistory" that was on boing boing like thirty years ago < 1368327864 192579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i'm feeling pumped about communism already < 1368327870 14652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh yes i think so < 1368327878 780075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i did i didn't get it from boing boing though < 1368327898 543610 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might remember that the AsianAvenger guy in it was concerned about a pre-xinhua thing called the Taiping Rebellion < 1368327922 371052 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the 1800s some guy declared himself to be jesus's brother and started a rebellion that got uh... "more people than WWI" killed roughly < 1368327943 566442 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the qing dynasty was utterly fucked there for a while < 1368327949 881629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the main problem is that china has too many people < 1368327952 760102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they had fewer people < 1368327958 829244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then less people would die when bad things happen < 1368327974 288976 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well elliott if you'd been paying attention you'd notice that for a while they've been trying their damnedest to reduce the number of people! < 1368328000 240424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike.... < 1368328001 57370 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about too many dudes and not enough gal's. cant wait till they all die off < 1368328002 765167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if i would pay attention < 1368328015 413760 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that'll be exciting" < 1368328021 472914 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good because i made that all up for a fantasy story < 1368328030 609089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :china fanfiction < 1368328036 424449 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!why would you do that < 1368328040 136659 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want my history REAL < 1368328056 588541 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1368328088 79649 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably mention joseph needham i guess < 1368328096 437692 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :need ham??? < 1368328101 787851 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was like a chemist or whatever that wrote this thirty volume set on the history of technology in china < 1368328104 454533 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368328128 837973 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the reason for that "wow ancient china actually had a pretty good thing going" you hopefully had in school (before that it was racister probably??) < 1368328144 331099 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not ancient but like, old. < 1368328147 156146 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ancient"'s a dumb word < 1368328155 700678 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ol' china < 1368328165 388441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man i honestly don't remember anything about ancient hcina in school < 1368328170 874111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like paid zero attention to history < 1368328182 709718 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i can't blame you i mean there's a lot of it < 1368328184 619640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i remember is like infinite numbers of fucking tudor king shits < 1368328188 383555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :over and over < 1368328189 225837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for months < 1368328190 733421 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1368328205 552247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :successfully ensured i would never care about a king of england ever < 1368328215 173077 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should sum up some "key facts" you can use to pretend to be informed to your newsreading pals < 1368328236 855483 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... tibet and the northwest (xinjiang) have been independentish at various points < 1368328247 944195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike < 1368328249 952491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any pals < 1368328251 756687 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have to take an american history sometime but uuugh why american history that's probably soooo boring < 1368328255 418698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right what's it with tibet < 1368328260 816564 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh < 1368328265 783676 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tibet was a theocracy in the mountains < 1368328272 108176 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you might expect they weren't like... important < 1368328277 838794 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more boring than tudor king shits??? quite possibly < 1368328298 159947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only theocracy ruled by a llama < 1368328303 704592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :World's First < 1368328314 40890 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point the british got in there and were like "well, yeah, we'll control your diplomacy or whatever" and the leaders were like "ok"? maybe had a little war, i dunno, i don't think tibet's had a significant military since the 1300s < 1368328337 119974 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like 1950 the PRC (that's communist china) took over and well there's been "some argument" about that < 1368328345 198744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's a bit unpopular yes < 1368328355 955635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they take over (given: theocracy in the mountains; not... important) < 1368328365 695162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess probably: communism < 1368328371 130421 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not sure really < 1368328383 276119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theocommunism < 1368328390 350109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best of both worlds: sharing AND llama < 1368328403 791467 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i want to mention that the northwest of china is worth remembering; for one it has a huge muslim population < 1368328424 656074 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, keep that in mind, china isn't all "ancient buddhist wisdom" or whatever < 1368328433 841239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient muslim wisdom < 1368328444 754120 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1368328497 304386 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i guess they took over kind of because it was in a dumb limbo situation and just... why not, it had been part of china at various points anyway < 1368328589 612331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good a reason as any < 1368328593 224321 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's most of what i got. way more interesting than tudor shits imo < 1368328675 198278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I also have this machine plugged into a Kill-a-Watt I had bought when I thought I was going to do the Tweet-A-Watt project (unfinished because I accidentally crushed the XBee under a keg)" < 1368328728 37352 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw whats a tudor shit < 1368328730 990544 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im uncultured < 1368328766 25233 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a shit by the tudor dynasty? i never had british history in school < 1368328790 986686 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's an HBO programme about tudor shits < 1368328898 90526 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having a tudor shit in a tudor robe #classic" < 1368328916 335514 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mar 7, 2010 – Dane tudor shit... Dane tudor shit... View Full Size Image. Details; Share. Views: 444. Score: -3. Title: Dane tudor shit... Uploader: RoguePube ... < 1368328921 871707 :carado_!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1368328937 130709 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott what do they teach you < 1368329019 353059 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/mkpepper/status/244427490968350720/photo/1 < 1368329033 349597 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did we stop nutsplatting < 1368329051 197217 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye. now we're tudor shitting < 1368329060 245909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :420 shit tudors everyday < 1368329089 301968 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's... nutsplatting < 1368329139 113650 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it sound like < 1368329951 613051 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368330007 862974 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1368330083 369972 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so NICK :Guest29721 < 1368330473 604153 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hichaf < 1368331085 414223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc < 1368331089 678398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back in CA
< 1368331324 25043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it < 1368331342 83923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good hth < 1368331601 982754 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368331608 145186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for the hichaf? < 1368331624 646490 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I should probably hilight .*chaf\b.* < 1368332206 826465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason really < 1368332209 949826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' hi < 1368332337 257569 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoeeganawg < 1368332348 620004 :Bike_!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368333410 707636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey what happened the topic I set < 1368333411 777861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :netsplit? < 1368333416 480960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :we can all be terrible together | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1368334891 457195 :Bike_!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1368335691 696248 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: btw what's a hero < 1368335789 320889 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hero solves triangles and makes jets and doesn't afraid of anything, iirc < 1368335859 56604 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: elliott thinks i should be more like you. can you teach me how? < 1368339193 952542 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368339258 82648 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1368340853 363062 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368342194 369615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen ifMUD? < 1368342524 695068 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there also an elseMUD < 1368342525 959770 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1368342526 683804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1368342543 33109 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uninteractive fiction mud < 1368342565 69247 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just sit and watch some NPCs talk about nonexistent real lives and fight monsters and roleplay furry ex or whatever happens in muds < 1368342583 971759 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(endMUD) < 1368342612 848982 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, there's a few of those doing that < 1368342630 896309 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a company called BBC that makes a few nice ones < 1368342643 664412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i'd watch < 1368342652 289524 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a sick man, elliott. < 1368342657 162312 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sick boy < 1368342662 644155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1368342675 657924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like "furry ex" < 1368342775 372181 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross!! < 1368342820 559580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :show of hands who has a furry ex < 1368342920 266225 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if your hands fell off? < 1368342952 881081 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you would no longer be as concerned with displaying your furry ex status < 1368342999 591616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then you cannot vote < 1368346194 454379 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368346256 278078 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1368346356 243941 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1368346935 11475 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1368348242 719160 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368349348 71528 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie dude: Yeah, it was me. < 1368349427 361898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?) < 1368349428 106482 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1368350611 173850 :nortti_!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1368350659 838904 :madb4rd2!~perdito@koln-d9329b3b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368350836 90230 :madb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4332c.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368350909 489925 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!) < 1368350915 585944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1368350922 789930 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1368351098 908915 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368351230 572069 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368351413 276388 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368351443 919696 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368351936 930872 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368352541 207260 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-31-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1368352541 429956 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1368352889 289120 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1368353032 777960 :sirdancealo2!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1368353650 513956 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"systemd, [...] is an all-devouring octopus monster about crawl out of the sea and eat Tokyo and spit it out as a giant binary logfile." < 1368354241 572411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368357216 406679 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, harsh words, does it deserve that? < 1368357270 176844 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think my computer is not thermally sound, I'm compiling gcc at -j4, and CPU temp is at 73 C < 1368357271 301030 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core 2: +73.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +98.0°C) < 1368357276 684649 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is fine, just < 1368357326 45928 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the case fans are on max, that seems to prevent it from raising further < 1368357343 469739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just like to get upset about systemd because < 1368357348 527392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terrible just like every part of linux is terrible < 1368357380 352393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't miss the seconds of my bootup process and the control/monitoring tools work just fine < 1368357394 662263 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is worrying, since I'm considering getting new case fans (one one them makes weird clicking noises). The one I'm looking at has slightly less airflow than my current one, so eeeh... < 1368357404 580445 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of* < 1368357453 102172 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, I can't say I'm bothered with my current boot time enough to use systemd. Less than 30 seconds from grub to X login prompt is fine by me < 1368357502 724733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of that is spent on DHCP anyway < 1368357580 596226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't switch to systemd because i cared about my boot time < 1368357585 402046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched because my distro switched to it < 1368357599 685871 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which distro do you currently use? < 1368357622 302347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch < 1368357629 17125 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1368357658 694616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the switch also eliminated all the "distro-specific" config stuff for things like the network and timezone and so on, which is nice, because it means the same way of configuring things will transfer if I switch to another distro < 1368357668 264697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that has also migrated) < 1368357675 576749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1368357687 941518 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd replaces cron, syslog and a few more doesn't it? < 1368357699 462205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i no longer have to add myself to random groups to get things working which is nice. < 1368357723 242331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, I think distros still ship cron, even though systemd has timer-y stuff which could replace it in theory < 1368357726 647654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does do the logging thing < 1368357740 82217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes the journal file it logs to is binary. but i don't care. the querying tools work fine.) < 1368357743 703562 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't read standard crontab then? < 1368357746 261927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can also forward to syslog I hear < 1368357754 620957 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I thought consolekit or whatever handled the "random group" stuff < 1368357759 349360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, that *would* be pointless < 1368357763 937465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you just roll cron into process 1? < 1368357784 584959 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know, people seem to complain that systemd is doing too much anyway so meh < 1368357788 469795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :systemd is basically like OS X's launchd, if you know anything about it < 1368357797 25015 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the principle of "one program does one thing, and does it well" < 1368357814 583211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter how much a program does. nobody cares about that. and no system has followed the one tool for the job philosophy for the past several decades < 1368357819 730356 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not much of an OS X expert no, but I understood it basically combines several services into one < 1368357826 427829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like upstart is already a big mess. it doesn't matter < 1368357838 311509 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't use upstart either, I'm on Debian < 1368357856 350821 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ubuntu that uses upstart < 1368357863 375021 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, upstart is even more of a mess than systemd < 1368357876 291671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Debian were planning to move to systemd or something too. < 1368357889 681602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are I think < 1368357904 697999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing that is nice is that the services are not defined in massive hideous duplicated ad-hoc shell scripts < 1368357917 222073 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say what you like about ini files, they're a hell of a lot less mess. < 1368357920 870348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does systemd handle network too? Or does it leave that to network-manager or whatever? < 1368357941 283573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles my network, yes < 1368357943 135039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstart files are quite nice too < 1368357984 307740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it can like integrate with network manager or whatever < 1368357989 878348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have < 1368357994 439443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ systemctl status dhcpcd@eth0.service < 1368357994 624547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhcpcd@eth0.service - dhcpcd on eth0 < 1368357994 624625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/dhcpcd@.service; enabled) < 1368357994 624671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Active: active (running) since Sat 2013-05-11 13:30:02 BST; 22h ago < 1368357994 624714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Process: 250 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/dhcpcd -q -w %I (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS) < 1368357997 427813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Main PID: 311 (dhcpcd) < 1368357998 166935 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that will be annoying to transfer on my RPi when the time comes. It has static IP, servers an IPv6 tunnel and does crazy "use different routing tables for different local UIDs" to route one user through a VPN tunnel < 1368358000 29745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : CGroup: name=systemd:/system/dhcpcd@.service/dhcpcd@eth0.service < 1368358002 435312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : └─311 /usr/sbin/dhcpcd -q -w eth0 < 1368358009 948227 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :serves* < 1368358015 771007 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1368358064 984813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, nix switched to systemd. I wonder if it's matured at all since the last time I looked at it. < 1368358098 660699 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :NixOS? Kind of cool, but iirc rather immature, a lot of missing packages and so on < 1368358106 42942 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368358120 272227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just switch to windows or something. works for spj. < 1368358134 363382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :spj? < 1368358183 701933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway windows (win 7 at least) is much slower to boot than Linux from the same HDD. Usually takes minute from login screen until the OS is actually responsive. < 1368358233 519763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :simon peyton-jones. < 1368358253 588826 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it someone I should know of? < 1368358259 86423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1368358268 611888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, what is he known for then? < 1368358337 115125 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prepares elliott for post-traumatic Vorpal contact treatment
< 1368358357 559838 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.oO( sir vorpal kickass'o < 1368358365 405135 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo ban vorpal < 1368358365 587976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Peyton_Jones < 1368358378 975126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could kick him for not knowing who spj is. < 1368358387 657571 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +v :oerjan > 1368358387 695316 NAMES :#esoteric < 1368358391 884495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo, it is a sign. < 1368358404 954229 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't keep track of names really, why should I? < 1368358412 940315 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he is a haskell guy, okay. < 1368358414 558816 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suppose, but then i'd have to actually log into my nick first < 1368358464 430855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice bowtie in that photo btw < 1368358465 700091 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here reading goblins comic? < 1368358520 354550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, if only I had been opped... < 1368358595 35302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion dude: dude. < 1368358604 397439 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: my reading of goblins came to an abrupt stop at the point when Kore killed that dwarf child hth < 1368358669 618366 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why that? < 1368358702 632385 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got a whole lot too dark for me at that point hth < 1368358747 674850 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, but that's part of what makes it this good < 1368358797 749480 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly, i took a year-long hiatus on oots after the familicide event. < 1368358830 808094 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't that far at oots < 1368358841 677124 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to find some good way for reading it < 1368358863 961972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you say dark < 1368358867 166392 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no usable general webcomic reader for android :( < 1368358872 484301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean ~dark and edgy@~ < 1368358874 625985 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why i only mentioned the word, not who or what it involved. < 1368358876 737543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/@// < 1368358897 223139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is myname nortti < 1368358906 217327 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1368358914 348541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok never mind < 1368359272 198512 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric : My language is getting somewhere. ^_^ Thanks for all the support. <-- #esoteric, the channel that splits off actual on-topic discussion. < 1368359485 577522 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric The channel which splits off on-topic discussion | we can all be terrible together | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1368359525 186407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense an additional #esoteric < 1368359545 267126 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think the discussion happened in #jesseh < 1368359566 341943 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i actually was there, mind you < 1368359621 589610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in the topic. < 1368359648 404959 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what hm < 1368359655 280663 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 TOPIC #esoteric :The channel which splits off on-topic discussion | we can all be terrible together | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1368359682 373769 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently webchat doesn't support including the actual channel in the /topic command < 1368359728 3729 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while in irssi you have to double it if you actually want it at the start of the topic < 1368359847 928642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1368360038 554594 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1368360356 732346 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1368360519 420827 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ok confession time because of the whole "generation" thing i thought that kids were born in waves until i was like twelve and everybody like reproduced at the same time < 1368360523 760561 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting time < 1368360527 904739 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1035) ok confession time because of the whole "generation" thing i thought that kids were born in waves until i was like twelve and everybody like reproduced at the same time < 1368360579 83614 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1368360579 859408 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1368360580 386779 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1368360581 38699 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1368360581 590972 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1368360584 130736 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :409) God, I sure do hate Apple and their header files that only include the functions they're specified to. < 1368360584 343487 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :850) so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); < 1368360585 343170 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :963) As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really. < 1368360585 822581 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :112) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. < 1368360586 7891 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :126) pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1368360604 308323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy < 1368360605 340904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1368360610 994600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did i say 963 < 1368360783 108353 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes As Brainfuck derivatives < 1368360784 132477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at approximately 963 quote standard time < 1368360790 975653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: logs? < 1368360796 69073 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4074 < 1368360799 375830 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1368360806 517512 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs As Brainfuck derivatives < 1368360865 17341 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27970 < 1368360882 203255 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1368360897 952980 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs As Brainfuck derivatives < 1368360931 463401 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12399 < 1368360952 939473 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-03-02.txt:22:41:06: As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really. < 1368360955 205675 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1368360973 180736 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i say it about < 1368361012 926060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know if fizzie was doing this he'd have had the answer in 30 seconds and told me what colour jumper i was wearing < 1368361020 281239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not impressed oerjan < 1368361059 984065 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Agony < 1368361070 766714 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think < 1368361087 818653 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: hey there, i was just planning to let Phantom_Hoover look it up himself for that comment < 1368361095 201342 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just skimmed trough the logs from around the correct point) < 1368361128 703914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently this was meant to damn with faint praise < 1368361210 315261 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works! IT WORKS! < 1368361224 762094 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Bike you know what suddenly seems really weird? almost every organism uses the exact same mapping from DNA codons to amino acids. What's Up With That <-- i would assume that it is because whenever an organism _does_ change it, suddenly a large number of its proteins stop working simultaneously hth < 1368361225 167256 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1368361226 203205 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it=netsurf framebuffer version trough sdl) < 1368361426 274658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another computer game idea I have is based on a diagram I remember that someone drew for me once. It was a directed graph; the nodes were drawn as faces, some of which had wavy lines above. The faces without wavy lines represented good monsters and the ones with wavy lines represented bad monsters. Probably additional kinds of pieces should be added, though. < 1368361433 132266 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, correction to above. it starts up, in a 800x600 box, with invisible text < 1368361677 588042 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are good should you still call them monsters? < 1368361701 64376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1368361745 368258 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 QUIT :Quit: main is usually a course < 1368362449 644250 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and what is the game behind that? < 1368362475 879898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I don't know, but some game played on a directed graph, I suppose. < 1368362524 514046 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can have a free category of a simple digraph which results in a thin category, and that is the same as a partial ordering. < 1368362526 124599 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of them, even if most of them aren't presented as such < 1368363050 997110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably these directed graphs form the data of a level of the game, or there could be some additional data needed to make up a level too (such as time limits or starting inventory or whatever). < 1368363069 545906 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368363543 254024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think only a free category of a directed acyclic graph is thin?) < 1368363566 717919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless you specifically make the other ones thin too, that is.) < 1368363576 940006 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-87-233.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368363720 880530 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-158-127.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368364474 844372 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-158-127.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1368365265 103455 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-205-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368365296 302849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented different bishop adjust rule: If you have exactly two bishops on board, both standing on the same color square, then bishops have the additional move of one spcae orthogonal; capturing is also permitted with this move. If used in FIDE chess, this might mean that it is possible in some circumstances that promoting to a queen won't give check but underpromotion to a bishop will give check. < 1368366225 48567 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-16707.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368366759 880862 :carado_!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368366811 400699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg catseye went down < 1368366828 963645 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-205-44.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368366915 245536 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368366940 212424 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368366979 640588 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes. < 1368366996 467204 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dark times are upon us once more < 1368367035 266190 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i didn't find it anywhere else with google, either < 1368367051 598843 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-205-44.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368367068 908300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1368367077 892066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw cpressey's github is still up < 1368367081 270424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably he is emailable and stuff < 1368367090 114072 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1368367103 20769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1368367115 389123 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i check if i'm banned in a channel without trying to join it < 1368367174 93170 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all from Québec City! < 1368367199 140539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does quebec exist though < 1368367199 797290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what channel is it < 1368367207 567957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not even on freenode < 1368367209 806676 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have no fear < 1368367213 783663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1368367219 577291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric < 1368367236 997922 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1368367247 163959 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you are banned on #esoteric? why did no one tell me! < 1368367259 815837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo unban me < 1368367333 694706 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE HTH < 1368367342 475009 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nops are so easy, i wonder if they are monoids < 1368367354 241863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1368367357 147656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1368367368 254279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're monoids under composition < 1368367377 417727 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1368367398 593645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like a category. < 1368367427 965211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're categories under monoids < 1368367571 960204 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1368367587 178471 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric : does quebec exist though <-- i hear they are frequently trying to separate from canada, i assume they're tired of not existing. < 1368367620 63567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants a bunch of french people to exist though < 1368367638 735120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw I hope you will still love me if I spontaneously turn into conor mcbride overnight. < 1368367641 730286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there have been signs.) < 1368367656 777508 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. that may be a bit much to handle. < 1368367729 659346 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's not quite exclusively French anymore. 20% of canada's population is from an ethnic minority. < 1368367782 468440 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we have two Montréals going on: mainly non-French west of St-Laurent Blvd., and mainly French east of it.) < 1368367971 634715 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm possibly montreal might exist, it's in the name < 1368368016 56614 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it looks real. it feels real. but I fear it may only be a lavish illusion. < 1368368047 388367 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1368368075 139310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :montreal is a place where everyone speaks french and is in a post-rock band < 1368368078 997632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm pretty sure no place can actually exist < 1368368085 99770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name is likely a clever indirection < 1368368089 471152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misdirection? < 1368368094 900557 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1368368252 660786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, says you, but you also says you from montreal. < 1368368258 55342 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does hexham exist? < 1368368264 47474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. > 1368368276 70100 JOIN :#esoteric > 1368368280 193360 JOIN :#esoteric > 1368368280 709333 JOIN :#esoteric > 1368368339 945264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368368341 198626 :glogbot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric > 1368368344 54383 JOIN :#esoteric > 1368368344 568885 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368368497 23095 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the mathematical structure called of the transit system of this game? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSchessonamasstr < 1368368821 870866 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1368369042 624879 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368369158 139260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thoerjan < 1368369178 433838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What's a word that rhymes with oerjan? < 1368369195 456898 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, what does not rhyme with oerjan hth < 1368369226 639460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please give me a word that rhymes with oerjan hth < 1368369249 850178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so used to different coding styles nowdays that I have trouble reading my own old C code. < 1368369322 445402 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You do? What styles did you use what did other used? < 1368369343 866603 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < 1368369360 197022 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the question of newline or not before {, how to indent, stuff like that < 1368369392 388453 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which did you use? < 1368369451 937704 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the linux kernel coding convention basically, go look it up if you want, I'm kind of busy debugging this < 1368369538 592729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also if when declaring a pointer variable, to put a space before or after or both sides of asterisk; I find all three ways confusing so I omit both spaces. < 1368369614 253750 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often it is written like "int *x;" but this is confusing if there is an initialization value, since then it might seem to be initializing *x but actually it is the initial value of x not of *x. < 1368369731 840420 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of this? < 1368369753 309970 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the space-on-both-sides alternative happens when people switch between int* x or int *x too often and get confused < 1368369863 962182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, maybe that is what it is. Somehow I find space on neither sides to be clearest. What way do you use in your own C programs? < 1368370004 533137 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anymore < 1368370015 728322 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used to do space before < 1368370077 572271 :oerjan!5bba487a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.186.72.122 QUIT :Quit: Everyone needs their space < 1368370138 995393 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I use type *var, *var2; and so on. The logical way is to put the * next to the variable name, since if you declare multiple variables separated with , type* var1, var2; would look confusing < 1368370150 112176 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would make var1 a pointer, but not var2 < 1368370159 56294 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Times Square is the only neighborhood with zoning ordinances requiring building owners to display illuminated signs.[27] < 1368370181 105507 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know that, which is why "int* x" is confusing. However, because of initialization values, "int *x" is also confusing. < 1368370187 730020 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1368370191 638313 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to me, but okay < 1368370288 467029 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm more used to hg than bzr now < 1368370631 591799 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-16707.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368370737 457483 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-16707.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368371392 204055 :carado_!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368371398 973729 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368371505 870018 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.64 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1368371768 45181 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-16707.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368372248 931198 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372271 23806 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372286 48250 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1368372286 483649 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1368372287 97223 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes QUIT :*.net *.split < 1368372367 477847 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372546 634830 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372579 449271 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372590 695260 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1368372630 16712 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Excess Flood < 1368372639 6422 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372677 463113 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368372697 985452 :ggherdov!uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shmrwemdmjxnvrrw QUIT :Ping timeout: 670 seconds < 1368372714 788982 :ggherdov!uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzcjcijlryazajtg JOIN :#esoteric < 1368372841 655061 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-18953.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368373499 900046 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368374062 691086 :impomatic!~john_metc@43.22.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368375003 876839 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368375309 809022 :boily!~boily@64.56.230.185 QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1368375718 690584 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1368375966 850016 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368376391 699341 :Guest29721!dlopen@libdl.so NICK :Grego < 1368376394 227162 :Grego!dlopen@libdl.so NICK :Gregor < 1368376402 455845 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good typing, me X_X < 1368376451 902696 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1368376511 923673 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is the best channel < 1368376515 570768 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ##English is the weirdest < 1368378061 609491 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1368378228 470804 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368378805 452632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-ian chants. < 1368378881 434254 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368378894 629959 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368378980 529712 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a double name, like Gregor-Ian Chants? < 1368379045 693455 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368379124 935551 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1368379160 856717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1368380457 208199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the decision of GCC to not delete empty loops. for(ix=0;ix!=10000;ix++); should be deleted, in my opinion; if you want it to force not to delete, you should write: for(ix=0;ix!=10000;ix++) volatile; < 1368380483 512546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore I think such a statement should be added in C. < 1368380539 261617 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't it deleted? < 1368380539 763378 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1368380608 135138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C doesn't delete it because you might put the loop to make it delay. I think that is not a good reason (it is also usually not the best way to make a delay); that is why I think there ought to be the statement which you can instead explicitly tell it not to delete the empty loop, like that. < 1368380614 443563 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i miss mnoqy < 1368380621 694604 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: make mnoqy come back < 1368380640 65579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess gcc has special rules for loops that look like delay loops < 1368380650 622792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can cause it to be optimized even less by declaring the variable ix as volatile too. < 1368380681 162455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And I don't like that kind of things. What would you think? Maybe it should be an option? < 1368381128 445434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GCC does delete that loop. < 1368381146 935986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bUcS < 1368381158 857710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The documentation says they don't want to make it delete that loop. Is the document wrong? < 1368381198 43769 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1368381201 642108 :Gracenotes_!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes NICK :Gracenotes < 1368381347 307206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they've decided not to maintain the distinction between loops that became empty after optimization, and loops that were written empty; and the documentation has become outdated as a result. Who knows. (Folks on #gcc?) < 1368381653 447652 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : GNU C doesn't delete it because you might put the loop to make it delay. I think that is not a good reason (it is also usually not the best way to make a delay); that is why I think there ought to be the statement which you can instead explicitly tell it not to delete the empty loop, like that. <-- it is a reasonable way to create a delay in embedded code for some platforms < 1368381670 281228 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, there is not really any reason to write a loop like that normally though < 1368381683 110919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, in some case it is; I didn't mean that it is *never* the way to write the delay. < 1368381728 407675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I don't like that optimization and that is why I think there should be the command "volatile;" which can be used if you do want to tell it to not be deleted. < 1368381755 926632 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they can't really add that to the C standard, a compiler intrinsic function would make more sense here < 1368381802 713045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can make it a extension when compiling in GNU mode, if you want to, though. < 1368381833 207239 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you not just have ix volatile < 1368381862 692206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that works too, but maybe you don't want to disable that many optimizations. (I did mention that.) < 1368382017 726208 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ix is not volatile, but you write "for(ix=0;ix!=10000;ix++) volatile;" but ix is not used at all afterward, then the compiler still has to ensure when writing the code surrounding the loop that it will execute the body 10000 times, even if it is empty. < 1368382222 636562 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-18953.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368382408 565697 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1368382439 191023 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, why are you writing an empty loop anyway, or are you expecting this to appear from optimizations < 1368382455 482567 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want a busy loop i mean < 1368382482 200376 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Damn* the wifi's being high latency right now. < 1368382489 919437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What does it mean to execute an empty body 10000 times? hth < 1368382504 410256 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, shit, I'm actually getting notable predictions out of mosh right now. < 1368382566 139473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, if you write "for(ix=0;ix!=10000;ix++) volatile(ix);" then I want it to ensure the value of ix is stored somewhere during the loop (possibly in a register, and it doesn't necessarily have to be retained after the loop), and "for(ix=0;ix!=10000;ix++) volatile(&ix);" ensures it is in RAM. < 1368382659 127102 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define volatile(x) { volatile typeof(x) _x = x; } < 1368382660 210284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To compile the code to make such a body but do nothing; if you write a for block, if block, etc that contains only things that are optimized out, some of which are volatile, then it must compile a NOP instruction. Otherwise, it doesn't have to compile a NOP instruction. For example, "if(1) volatile;" should make a NOP instruction since the condition can be optimized out. < 1368382702 331414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I don't think "NOP instruction", like, means anything in the, like, semantics of C, man. < 1368382704 305696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suppose it can work in a few cases like that. < 1368382706 333034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1368382743 678459 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: x = x; < 1368382746 235063 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1368382824 329014 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Last contact x seconds ago." Holy *shit* mosh is dealing with a high latency link at this point. < 1368382828 885984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368382844 254338 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I get to see how well its prediction works at least? < 1368382857 732631 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, really, is quite impressive. < 1368382874 296448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wlecmoe to every day for me? hth < 1368382877 769741 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be better, but then this is currently taking more time than packets to SPACE. < 1368382890 842275 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm moshing on LAN here. < 1368382902 654593 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368382908 531178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1368382908 789865 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368382934 944585 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-207-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere, there is some ridiculous bufferbloat. < 1368382946 684231 :Tritonio_!~Tritonio@athedsl-17749.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368383069 161899 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else I mean is that for example, if you write "if(x) volatile;" then, if x is known at compile-time to be zero, it makes nothing; if x is known to be nonzero, it makes NOP; if the value of x is not known at compile-time, it compiles a "branch if zero" instruction with an offset of zero (if allowed by the target), and does not compile a NOP (unless branches with offset of zero is not allowed by the target, in which case it branches to the point < 1368383199 13496 :Tritonio_!~Tritonio@athedsl-17749.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368383914 107651 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (- 1) < 1368383919 410451 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1368383919 629299 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: Prelude.undefined < 1368384060 878503 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exitFailure >> undefined < 1368384066 161734 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1368384066 378739 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe70:53e1 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: Prelude.undefined < 1368384928 603138 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368386288 537673 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O there's an HTTP 2.0 in the works < 1368386326 768524 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as talks to use SPDY to replace HTTP < 1368386365 570163 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that's rather being considered for becoming HTTP 2.0 < 1368386733 158176 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current HTTP 2.0 spec is a copy of SPDY I think < 1368386789 589075 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368386800 768580 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368386814 143623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Konqueror a more reasonable browser to use these days? Now that a derivative of KHTML is quite popular? < 1368386950 871122 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqel0k0NzNU I think I understand sgeo a lot better now. < 1368386976 246615 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1368387013 265051 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun part is a number of those worlds I haven't been to before I saw that video < 1368387024 982149 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have seen the hand garden before though < 1368387035 845697 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of those worlds are user-built < 1368387071 943477 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d avatars like that tie-died kid aren't customizable < 1368387092 820950 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Althoguh Samurai_Jack's avater is custom I think, a 3d av made into a flat panel < 1368387121 978325 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That maze under the toilets is non-Euclidean (poossibly not the best way to describe it) < 1368387168 240582 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That place where he says 'it's just a cube' is accessed by walking through a mirror < 1368387222 738990 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368387337 873090 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, worlds can force you to say things < 1368387419 494247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA had a "Video Game Article" that also reminded me of Sgeo; it's in regards of Second Life; it's at http://www.somethingawful.com/d/video-game-article/meanwhile-second-life.php and it's kind of like a vignette. < 1368387550 506778 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double semicolon < 1368387553 428539 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's somewhat of a feat < 1368387611 357438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably somewhat of an inappropriate use of a semicolon. < 1368387670 607427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SemicolonFreq.png we passed "peak semicolon" around 1800. < 1368387790 527152 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are smicolons a renewable resource < 1368387800 551814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're mined. < 1368387907 694916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the last paragraph -- overdone as it was -- was quite evocative. (Not that I ever did any Second Living, I've just read about it, and the spiritual predecessors. Local computing magazines used to have articles in the early days of Virtual Reality.) < 1368388005 906579 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell makes statistics about the usage of semicolons < 1368388011 528995 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is all that random variance before 1800ish caused by lack of material to analyze? < 1368388023 228960 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368388023 445779 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 QUIT :Changing host < 1368388023 445992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1368388089 251857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: Very probably. < 1368388115 377262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/charfreq_punct.html is almost, but not quite, statistics about the usage of semicolons. < 1368388143 609487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perhaps I should in fact make individual punctuation character pages too, given that there's already all of a-z.) < 1368388145 919881 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it rise after invention of C? < 1368388165 561676 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably made out of, you know, books, in general. < 1368388181 219505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Google Books, like it says. < 1368388186 627488 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened in late October < 1368388248 594928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try to figure out the right rrdtool magic to see which day it is exactly? < 1368388442 863777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-26#212912shachaf at least quite a lot of dots happened. < 1368388490 822754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ? < 1368388493 704014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was *that* all about? < 1368388510 414112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Shouldn't *you* know? < 1368388517 162600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1368388521 795454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like a really annoying thing to do. < 1368388558 717620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why I'd do that. < 1368388600 118143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it was the evil shachaf. < 1368389382 271215 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1368389462 294743 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1368389506 933855 :impomatic!~digital_w@43.22.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1368389532 646046 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368389638 36208 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368389809 469988 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368390212 625334 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368390235 291954 :SOLEIL!~SOLEIL@37.130.120.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368390241 99226 :SOLEIL!~SOLEIL@37.130.120.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1368390245 789062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1368390307 668543 :SOLEIL!~SOLEIL@37.130.120.15 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368390339 483178 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368390692 268961 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : That maze under the toilets is non-Euclidean < 1368390700 381571 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :t sgeo this sounds like a jerkcity line hth < 1368390721 632224 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we sure that sgeo isn't randy < 1368390759 259834 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rands? < 1368390769 534091 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read rands's book on managing programmers < 1368390774 580300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was............................................ "ok" < 1368390829 345037 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;s not very good. < 1368390853 864603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're............................................ "ok" < 1368390874 251509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heegan < 1368390879 248501 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :teeheegan < 1368391010 965856 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368391342 522863 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368391893 964719 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hichaf < 1368391926 352551 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how goes it? < 1368391950 769096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is learning the moves for rotating the centers of a Rubik's cube
< 1368391956 506935 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who’s shichaf? < 1368391975 79915 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the center cannot hold. < 1368391975 296381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What moves? < 1368392024 364574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.alchemistmatt.com/cube/rubikcenter.html < 1368392054 987725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1368392061 142912 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dance dance dance < 1368392062 577518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat that you can do that. < 1368392069 386356 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://plus.google.com/100013123247538791993/posts/2W2onvw3Ly5 < 1368392073 841538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy is a russian spy btw hth < 1368392083 933105 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1368392088 939084 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368392104 850882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait sorry < 1368392110 647590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy is not a russian spy < 1368392118 865960 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????? < 1368392122 585968 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: lol < 1368392195 541568 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-205-44.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1368392492 79665 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is telling me the subjonctif imparfait is rarely used in french but < 1368392513 231078 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck are you supposed to write after "j'étais surpris que ..."?! < 1368392672 515848 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1368392893 762732 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1368392905 788718 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i did it < 1368392941 269017 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j'étais surpris que tu aies été là ce soir < 1368392945 849142 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1368392979 106278 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be subjonctif passé composé < 1368392980 709779 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1368393018 149672 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I would rarely phrase a sentence like that, and would prefer "j'étais surpris de te voir là ce soir" < 1368393137 490206 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1368393165 554532 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if the cops ask me who did it, I'll refer them to the logs < 1368393224 21917 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok "j'étais surpris que" is a very unusual way to start a sentence so all tenses sound weird in my head < 1368393295 718853 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. how would you translate something like "i was surprised that she still knew me" < 1368393344 408915 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you mentioned the "j'étais surpris de" thing up there, oops < 1368393347 357627 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :extrapolating from the previous discussion, j'étais surpris que something something < 1368393349 282965 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.requestcomics.com/comic/306.html hmmmmmmm < 1368393358 533973 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :present form would definitely be "je suis surpris que tu sois là" so with the imparfait... hmmm you want me to say "j'étais supris que tu fûsses là", right? < 1368393389 195574 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(took me some time to find the correct form for "fûsses") < 1368393399 643615 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that sounds correct < 1368393410 918463 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"j'étais surpris que tu aies été là" is probably not correct < 1368393463 707395 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I would say instead "j'étais surpris d'apprendre qu'elle se souvenait encore de moi" ("I was surprised to learn she still remembered me") < 1368393506 457812 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it"s definitely unusual :) < 1368393525 407796 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might find it in novels < 1368393544 295424 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like passé simple i guess < 1368393554 562843 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no passé simple is easy < 1368393566 227414 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not so unusual when writing < 1368393576 661078 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you would rarely use it in oral speech though) < 1368393591 18692 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :buuuuuuut I'm really having trouble finding the correct tense for your sentence < 1368393608 562434 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :j'étais surpris qu'elle se rappelle de moi is the first thing that comes to mind < 1368393619 299753 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is probably what I would say when speaking < 1368393621 761431 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just subjonctif présent? < 1368393625 586465 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's most definitely wrong < 1368393648 133170 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"j'étais surpris qu'elle se rappelât de moi" is probably more correct < 1368393660 222570 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is for an oral presentation thingy... maybe i should just not use the subjonctif at all < 1368393670 796919 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if it's oral and you use that < 1368393682 128202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a word for something that's either a source or a target? < 1368393689 454056 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or either a domain or a codomain. Or something. < 1368393694 710297 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object hth < 1368393697 136992 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1368393700 12079 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :operand < 1368393711 756919 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I thought you wanted the french word for that haha < 1368393718 672078 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :argument < 1368393722 364858 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :space < 1368393735 737945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I want a better word than object for talking about categories. < 1368393741 591847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since objects aren't important but people think they are. < 1368393749 342837 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"categories" < 1368393759 380726 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call them "types" i guess types are important though?? < 1368393773 908669 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set hth < 1368393785 364119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that types aren't the main thing you're talking about. You're talking about functions. < 1368393803 331334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types are just there to tell you how to compose them. < 1368393856 638148 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo, use some obscure german term so nobody will remember it and just talk about morphisms instead. < 1368393875 591879 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what's wrong with object :/ < 1368393908 558263 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that literally The Thing in categories that's either a source or a target < 1368393913 504376 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're objects then what are the methods??? checkmate mathematicians < 1368393913 968904 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're like me and mindstuck in set theory land, sometimes you think about objects in category theory even though that's ninety kinds of pointles < 1368393920 726987 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368393923 176133 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shachaf thinks this is the fault of "object" the term i guess? < 1368393946 72432 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i think about objects in categories :( < 1368393958 199117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objects are important if you want to know which morphisms can be composed! < 1368393990 36114 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still nowhere in my CT adventures though < 1368394010 231400 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw: thanks for recommending barr & wells, shachaf) < 1368394023 329700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommended Barr & Wells? < 1368394025 213222 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows all about CT adventures
< 1368394028 709411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never read it. < 1368394031 885745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear it's good, though. < 1368394040 149825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably I quoted ddarius's recommendation. < 1368394048 994053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yopumpkin < 1368394052 147390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read that one story? < 1368394081 683737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the "elements" of a monoid are the arrows, not the objects. < 1368394089 63480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows don't have to be particularly function-like. < 1368394100 218889 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Anyway Barr & Wells is free online. < 1368394100 433548 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hear it's good. < 1368394110 628036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1368394119 863240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddarius also recommended learning about category theory as a generalization of lattice theory or something like that. < 1368394142 586743 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was actually my first little cat. theory-related "whoa" moment (the monoid thing) < 1368394184 18159 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how vague the terms "object", "arrow", and "compose" really are, in the definition of a category < 1368394184 802913 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Saturday's episode might have been leaked, tempted to go find and watch it < 1368394186 281587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: How do you talk about rank-n types categorically? hth < 1368394204 133883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I think the terms are actively misleading now. < 1368394206 200591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it doesn't have to be a function, or of other thing like that, it depend on the category, what the morphisms and objects are meaning. < 1368394213 304211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For anything except sets etc. < 1368394214 732071 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hth must mean something different from my hth < 1368394224 495322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It does. hth < 1368394230 525861 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this doesn't h at all < 1368394236 28669 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just addicted to hth. :-( hth < 1368394240 332245 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1368394241 56903 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too hth < 1368394248 245159 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you all read category theory blogs, are there category theory blogs < 1368394248 718720 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw shachaf what is i_i :( < 1368394250 856944 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides the one i mean < 1368394255 279606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: You mean I,I? < 1368394257 666926 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah, yth < 1368394263 568531 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops yes < 1368394270 334972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like an owl face to me. < 1368394290 23166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is nooodl Finnish? I thought nooodl was Finnish. < 1368394295 751954 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm belgian hth < 1368394321 80276 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :belgium is the new hexham (population: me, anothertest) < 1368394340 845554 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: probably something involving (di)natural transformations, I'd guess < 1368394347 339239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I just assume people on IRC are Finnish, hth < 1368394366 374418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I mean, you have a category-ish thing of Haskell functions. < 1368394369 634844 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: where do you live again (i'm awful) < 1368394384 784421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're all monomorphic, and you handle the polymorphism at another level, or something. < 1368394386 171398 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant < 1368394389 782213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't work with rank-2 types. < 1368394393 683833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a Rank-N category? < 1368394399 818946 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's what I mean by natural transformations < 1368394407 885152 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely seem to recall that you're french < 1368394408 315053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1368394417 2912 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is belgian, fsvo belgian, fsvo french < 1368394417 210497 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no i'm not that < 1368394418 227961 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a complicated category, then. < 1368394426 566582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Bike < 1368394429 566904 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike is from Luxembourg. < 1368394437 118235 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :runST :: (forall s. () -> ST s a) -> a < 1368394441 326294 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's belgium sorry < 1368394456 275153 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can phrase that forall s. thing as an NT < 1368394466 894752 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :with constant functor for first half and flip of ST for second half < 1368394516 560621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1368394520 566808 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. would it be better to think of "objects" and "arrows" as "types" and "composable, typed values" respectively? < 1368394538 334094 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: still not sure how it'd work though, need to think harar < 1368394553 625622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I think that's a better intuition. < 1368394582 379458 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a poset category, I guess an arrow is a proof of ≤ or something. < 1368394595 586202 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still have no idea what posets are < 1368394606 150416 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :partially ordered set < 1368394609 253169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A poset is a set with a partial ordering. < 1368394620 933084 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really just need a preorder though, which has even less structure < 1368394638 428823 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: take a total order as an example: natural numbers with <= < 1368394639 549504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really a proof I suppose, but a partial ordering will make a thin category (they follow the same laws), where there is a morphism if A is less than or equal to B. < 1368394652 395733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the objects of the category are the elements of the set. < 1368394713 948780 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :for another cute category, take obejcts = natural numbers, morphisms from n -> m = m x n (real) matrices < 1368394731 980981 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then figure out what you can find in that category < 1368394732 382711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types again! < 1368394770 576972 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are matrices types < 1368394785 878057 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't honestly know what an object would be in general < 1368394793 911150 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an object < 1368394795 478993 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, not in Haskell < 1368394803 540128 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a type? < 1368394805 225069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Is composition multiplication? < 1368394806 218888 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do things have to be things. things can just be themselves imo. go with the flow < 1368394816 208144 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yep < 1368394818 937582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1368394847 633933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And square matrices of any particular size are a monoid. < 1368394875 736883 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monoid object? :P first figure out if the category is monoidal < 1368394913 349417 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about simple things like initial/terminal/product/coproduct < 1368394920 50240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean an object and all its endoarrows. < 1368394934 558421 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1368394934 768825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's boring enough to not be worth mentioning. < 1368394966 4916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I choose to say that the arrow : A -> B in the poset category is a proof that A ≤ B < 1368394974 671294 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I identify all proofs. < 1368395012 208228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, let's see. < 1368395223 179260 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrix multiplication does make a category; the morphisms are the matrix and the objects identify the size of the matrix (natural numbers), and zero is the initial and the final object; ... I think so, at least ... < 1368395240 768422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too. < 1368395352 284390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, really, category theory does a lot of things. < 1368395373 929588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: That's a good category. < 1368395384 930415 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait until you figure out (co)products! < 1368395458 443103 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :coshachaf < 1368395463 495994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Hmm, let's see. < 1368396040 591962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gitorious.org/nethack-tas-tools/mainline/blobs/master/turnbyturn.txt nethack TAS < 1368396089 678293 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're famous! < 1368396102 677354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: in what way this time? < 1368396121 524530 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's YOUR nethack TAS < 1368396137 788726 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the video of that < 1368396141 649415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1368396144 109852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and dwangoAC < 1368396233 383957 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man nethack's mechanics are kind of ridiculous aren't they < 1368396244 693001 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: gee hurry up and answer copumpkin's question for me please < 1368396248 880199 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exciting < 1368397339 122466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1368397862 624898 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1368397916 793307 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-18148.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368398437 753824 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-18148.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1368398535 341358 :Tritonio!~Tritonio@athedsl-18148.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1368398632 895198 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1368398702 894522 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: wow, that GNOME thing < 1368399781 743176 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.179.134 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1368400369 346273 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait, what are products in the matrix category < 1368400401 632447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's an exercise < 1368400438 226105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1368400488 172607 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1368400529 628178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all (co)products exist? < 1368400542 213141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure it out < 1368400678 483677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If N and M are natural numbers, their product is a natural number P and two matrices s : PxN and t : PxM, such that for any natural number Y and matrices a : YxN and b : YxM, there exists a unique u : YxP such that us = a and ut = b < 1368400709 41304 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you probably have those multiplications the wrong way round < 1368400730 538921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, probably. < 1368400746 755892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, do I? < 1368400758 722520 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it rows x columns < 1368400765 294888 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1368400766 219618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If u : AxB and v : BxC, which way do you multiply? < 1368400775 805244 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so er... to multiply two matrices... < 1368400796 756552 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left has to have the same number of columns as the right has rows < 1368400797 37182 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here i was thinking you couldn't make tensor multiplication sillier < 1368400831 13491 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (mxn) * (nxp) = (mxp) < 1368400840 519330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I wrote. < 1368400855 472532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :u : YxP, s : PxN, up = a : YxN < 1368400881 585466 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y -> P is represented by PxY here < 1368400883 13998 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1368400902 676944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1368400905 467446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1368400927 93886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, turn it around. < 1368401005 703559 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a dagger category? < 1368401183 900446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the way you have the products actually matter? < 1368401221 738816 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1368401517 506312 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1368401558 940708 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais JOIN :#esoteric < 1368401676 681786 :augur!~augur@c-68-34-26-189.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1368401681 700084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1368401713 938639 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:26:23: Does the way you have the products actually matter? < 1368401736 431549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's one of those things where multiplication is basically commutative except for some niggly little details < 1368401795 533556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it's actually just m times n < 1368401804 482635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound right. < 1368401819 839474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, i'm doing this the differential equations way < 1368401826 467321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The empty product should be the terminal object, which I think is 0. < 1368401832 37166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the differential equations way? < 1368401873 858050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess random shit and see if it works < 1368401881 736456 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION salutes
< 1368401886 306682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :write exams based on one's ability to do this < 1368401913 891671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the zero is both initial and final objects in this category. < 1368401914 102639 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1368401936 477717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even have an mx0 matrix < 1368401961 367788 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess as some kind of abstract matrix? < 1368401974 892553 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think you can, since I do not know why you don't. < 1368401978 516002 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1368401979 96230 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1368401983 172605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks zzo38 < 1368401984 521857 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it makes no sense < 1368401986 750227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :thzo38 < 1368401999 879933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it make no sense? < 1368402004 810043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider: what do you get when you multiply an mx0 and an 0xn matrix < 1368402022 529199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result must be an mxn matrix, yet where are you getting all those entries < 1368402032 499987 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1368402040 771628 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm < 1368402041 10249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are none; it will be zero isn't it? < 1368402041 838959 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais JOIN :#esoteric < 1368402043 840757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you get when you compose an a -> Void function and a Void -> b function? < 1368402044 316281 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1368402057 856027 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uh this is category theory, who cares about that kind of sense" < 1368402066 105757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeelll... < 1368402083 1267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't an a -> Void function Weird < 1368402090 927394 :sivoais!~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais JOIN :#esoteric < 1368402092 213018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird in that there aren't any. < 1368402102 633935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly (exactly?) < 1368402109 538959 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1368402118 248593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it sounds like there wouldn't be an mx0 matrix either? < 1368402141 527567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. Who, like, knows, man? < 1368402179 599073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's m+n < 1368402193 331751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1368402193 561862 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeotm < 1368402227 594981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might be m+n < 1368402227 961965 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I watched an episode of Farscape last night < 1368402232 107406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, good man < 1368402236 339466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch another now < 1368402242 234659 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to eat < 1368402247 507188 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch while eating < 1368402253 481137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great new way to watch < 1368402261 560472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, would you rather me watch Farscape or finish DS9? < 1368402265 364942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway shh i'm abstract nonsense < 1368402380 678577 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let pi_1 = the m-by-m+n matrix with the diagonal filled in with 1s < 1368402397 681351 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let pi_2 = the n-by-m+n matrix with the diagonal filled in with 1s < 1368402445 803744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if we have y and f1,f2 as m-by-y and n-by-y matrices... < 1368402448 224807 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just say "the whatever by whatever identity matrix" < 1368402450 901527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a diagonal of an nxm matrix? < 1368402457 648887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, that's not the identity matrix < 1368402466 244129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the identity matrix with padding at the bottom or right < 1368402473 919544 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. silly. < 1368402541 959379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we want f as an m+n-by-y matrix < 1368402551 449622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we stick f1 on top of f2... < 1368402614 423363 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope wait that's not going to work < 1368402790 137300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, oh just tell us already < 1368402798 796560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No! < 1368402799 648323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is what I thought it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_(mathematics)#Empty_matrices < 1368402894 18277 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so keeping the "f1 on top of f2" part < 1368402901 87226 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that explains where you get the elements from < 1368402960 158970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1368402990 520205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's one 3x0 matrix and one 0x3 matrix, and their product is [[0 0 0] [0 0 0] [0 0 0]]? < 1368403017 112299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, right < 1368403020 670400 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's m+n < 1368403022 825530 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so. That is what I thought it was, and I think that is what Wikipedia means too. < 1368403028 742420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my earlier values for pi1 and pi2 were wrong < 1368403070 997605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi1 is an m-by-m+n matrix with the diagonal starting in the top-left cell filled with 1s < 1368403092 801748 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi2 is an n-by-m+n matrix with the diagonal starting in the top cell of the nth column filled with 1s < 1368403121 257217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know: you can exponentiate by matrices < 1368403159 944846 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-174-146.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say there must be only one of each, shachaf < 1368403184 357296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're hardly going to be different now are they