00:01:35 o.O http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr.com/post/47389305425/steven-moffat 00:03:05 yeah, he's kind of a douche :/ 00:04:46 BUUUUUUUUUUS 00:04:58 oh thank god, that's not about the other thing. 00:05:10 he's also a shitty writer 00:05:14 er 00:05:18 he's also a shitty showrunner 00:05:25 he's an excellent writer if kept under control 00:06:46 although eurgh i don't really like that blog 00:08:12 sexists are hard to stomach, yes 00:08:37 yeah, that's why i don't like it 00:08:53 publicly shaming people as 'sexists' is... actually kind of hypocritical? 00:09:09 how... how is that hypocritical? 00:09:20 if someone publicly acts like an asshole, you're allowed to comment on it 00:10:03 because if you're going to say that misogyny etc. are societally ingrained structures then you can't really go around making individual moral judgements about it 00:10:19 ???? 00:10:25 no dude 00:10:28 that doesn't even make any sense 00:10:41 'well, the nazis were a social structure, no individual germans were racist' 00:10:45 i'm not expressing this very well am i 00:10:52 no you are not 00:11:16 and don't put 'sexist' in quotes, come on, he hired a chick based on her looks and bragged about it 00:11:26 just because a lot of people are jerks doesn't absolve jerks of being jerks 00:11:29 If people 150 years ago were racist, would you say that each individual person had moral failings, if it was common at the time 00:11:35 I think is what Phantom_Hoover is trying to express 00:11:46 along those lines i guess 00:11:48 i would, generally 00:11:56 people were racist 150 years ago, and people 150 years ago called them out on their racism, just like they do today 00:11:59 besides, it doesn't even say 'moffat is sexist' 00:12:02 yeah, seriously 00:12:02 it's just a list of shitty things 00:12:04 it just literally lists 00:12:07 jerkish things 00:12:09 that a jerk did 00:12:10 that's it 00:12:25 you don't have to think of it as an individual moral judgement, but we all have a responsibility to strive to be better than the shitty things we've inherited from society 00:12:33 i think the problem is that when you call most people sexist they react by mentally comparing it to this mental image of, like, some slavering, wantonly misogynistic old man 00:12:39 they're not even calling him sexist 00:12:41 seriously 00:12:44 that's a problem, yes 00:12:48 -_- 00:12:52 i'm trying to cultivate the skill of calling people out on things in a friendly way which doesn't suggest they meant to be malicious 00:12:53 i don't know what that has to do with anything though 00:12:56 and I hope people will do the same to me 00:13:08 kmc, yes, this! 00:13:17 I think you're projecting 00:13:20 ok but it's just a list, phantom. 00:13:32 it really sucks that the discourse always jumps from "hey that was bad and you shouldn't say it next time" to "YOU'RE HITLER AND YOU WANT TO KILL ALL WOMEN" 00:13:42 the site is making no moral judgements at all, it's literally a list of bad things a person did, not saying anything about the person, other than that "they did these bad things" 00:13:43 most people don't think they're a bad person, and most people aren't bad people 00:13:52 I think you're the one making the moral judgements, not the site 00:13:58 yes. what does that have to do with anything, phantom. 00:14:31 people get reeeeeeeealy defensive though 00:14:41 it's really hard to say "oh, shit, that was bad and I'm sorry" 00:14:43 in a way that's genuine 00:14:48 I don't understand that at all 00:14:54 like if I accidentally said something that was bigoted 00:14:57 and someone said "oh that's bad" 00:15:03 I'm like "sorry, I didn't know, thanks for pointing it out!" 00:15:17 and I've done this probably hundreds of times in my life because this is like... normal? 00:15:24 but for some reason white dudes are super super defensive about it 00:15:25 when I was growing up I learned that sexism and racism were the domain of a small group of Very Bad People and the solution is to ostracize them as strongly as possible 00:15:34 yeah 00:15:36 which is basically completely the wrong way to look at it 00:15:41 but that contributes to people being defensive 00:15:42 it's hard to get over that view >_> 00:15:43 yes, but that's because you've had time to acclimate yourself to the idea thaat it's not a personal moral judgement 00:16:01 maybe we just need new words, actually I think "problematic" is a pretty good one 00:16:08 it doesn't imply intent 00:16:09 but when was it ever? like I don't get it 00:16:10 phantom, does what you're saying have anything to do with the site now. 00:16:11 most people look at it the way kmc just mentioned, and that is the way our culture definitely portrays it 00:16:19 Phantom_Hoover: isn't it super convenient too 00:16:25 Bike, if i say no will you let the discussion run its course 00:16:26 for the majority of people who don't need to examine their own attitudes 00:16:30 maybe 00:16:33 "well i don't wear a white hood and burn crosses, I must not be racist" 00:16:36 sigh 00:16:48 like, i saw this discussion elsewhere over the use of the word bitch 00:16:49 but i mean hey, we all just agreed that's a silly view and moffat can be bad without being a nazi 00:18:01 kmc: burning crosses is religionist hth 00:18:25 * shachaf thinks religionism is a lot more reasonable than racism, too, though burning crosses probably wouldn't accomplish much 00:18:25 and the guy saying it was... well, problematic, was having a really hard time of trying to get across that no, he wasn't saying that you personally were telling that woman to get into the kitchen and/or get raped 00:18:29 burn a star and crescent every once in a while, bigots!! 00:18:43 Phantom_Hoover: how about just "don't use slurs"? 00:18:49 it's not super hard 00:18:56 Bike: there was that guy in florida who wanted to burn a koran, I think he was the most successful troll of the past few years 00:19:11 he was a pastor, right? also didn't he actually go through with it 00:19:15 right 00:19:52 Fiora, so are you just going to be like this throughout the discussion 00:20:00 ummm I'm not sure what there is to discuss 00:20:10 why am i not surprised 00:20:29 like. as far as I can tell the only other position here is "awww the poor feelings of racists, how terrible it is that they have to be called racist, that must be horrible" 00:20:45 welp, you've clearly ignored everything i (and kmc!) have said 00:20:53 ???? 00:20:57 don't be like that, dude. 00:21:02 seriously...? 00:21:04 i think Fiora and I agree... 00:21:10 yeah... are you... even reading...? 00:21:11 that was my impression anyway 00:21:12 i think we all, on some level, agree? 00:21:22 when I was growing up I learned that sexism and racism were the domain of a small group of Very Bad People and the solution is to ostracize them as strongly as possible 00:21:24 this 00:21:28 this is what i was trying to say 00:21:30 well you are like trying to argue that we shouldn't call people racists because it ~hurts their feelings~ 00:21:32 well, don't be a jerk about disagreeing, then 00:21:36 about agreeing 00:21:38 typos. 00:21:52 and like. well mayyyybe if they didn't want to be called racist they shouldn't be racist? 00:22:05 I'm not saying we need nuance in order to protect the feelings of racists! i'm saying we need it for constructive dialogue 00:22:16 kmc, that was also what i was trying to say 00:22:19 ok 00:22:25 * shachaf 's Internet connection disconnects for a few mintues every few minutes. 00:22:27 then I think we all agree and you are being hostile to Fiora for no reason? 00:22:32 i dunno 00:22:52 shachaf: imo internet is actually impossible and it's finally catching up to us 00:23:10 I don't think there's much of a point to dialogue, if someone wants to feel a specific way they will come up with endless reams of nonsensical logic to justify their bigotry 00:23:48 if someone is forced to face the consequences of their actions, they're more likely to maybe consider that they could be wrong 00:24:13 Fiora: oh, well I disagree with that 00:24:18 i think the point here is why they consider justifying their bigotry is necessary 00:24:23 i think most people aren't malicious and don't want to hurt others 00:24:24 (or I guess I'd say "dialogue helps sometimes, but is often totally useless"?) 00:24:29 they just don't understand what is or isn't hurtful 00:24:34 i know this has been the case with myself 00:24:39 i see things a lot differently now than I used to 00:24:51 I don't think people are malicious, they just /don't care/ 00:24:58 which I guess is in itself a form of malice 00:25:01 there's some of each yeah 00:25:04 and that that is, at least in part, because the way we all talk about and understand racism etc. is one of "if you are A Bigot you are A Bad Person and must get down on your knees and beg for forgiveness" 00:25:22 Phantom_Hoover: or you just say "oops, my bad, thanks for telling me" 00:25:26 Dividing people into "racist peron" and "non-racist person" isn't useful. 00:25:29 *facepalm* 00:25:29 part of the dialogue is about making them care by showing that the people who have been hurt are real people with valid complaints 00:25:33 like there are plenty of examples of that happening all over the place 00:25:38 famous person says something bigoted 00:25:42 fans say "dude that was wrong" 00:25:50 and amazingly, they come out and say "oh, sorry, my fault, thanks for telling me" 00:25:53 and that's... that's it 00:25:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:26:04 but for each one of those there's the "I'm sorry you were offended~~~~" crowd 00:26:05 yes, and why don't many people do that 00:26:07 Fiora: isn't that the "dialogue" that youwere saying was useless? 00:26:08 i think phantom meant to talk about the common but wrong perception of what has to happen. 00:26:17 ('they're a jerk' is the answer i'm arguing is wrong) 00:26:19 kmc: sorry, I clarified, that dialogue is useful -sometimes- 00:26:21 i dunno, this is all getting hopelessly muddled 00:26:25 but a lot of the time it gets nowhere 00:26:33 like, some dialogue is useful but it's not always the answer? sorry 00:26:34 I'm really not clear 00:26:36 and should just stop 00:26:37 sort it all out amongst yourselves, I expect a full solution to racism by 9am tomorrow 00:26:44 * Bike salutes 00:26:48 didn't Sgeo have a full solution to racism 00:26:53 oh man did he 00:26:56 but basically just saying "you have to talk to the racists!!!" gets old after years and years of absolutelynothinghappening 00:26:59 and tone policing 00:27:03 oh god the tone policing :/ 00:27:21 "you're not being nice enough about telling someone they were an asshole :(" 00:27:54 and maybe there's a point to it but when someone doesn't listen to niceness more niceness is probably not going to get the message across 00:28:06 this isn't even about niceness where are you getting that from 00:28:07 Phantom_Hoover, it was an attempt at a solution to unconscious bias in hiring 00:28:16 ... wasn't that... the entirety of what you were saying 00:28:19 no 00:28:21 no it wasn't 00:28:27 then what are you even saying O_O 00:28:40 may i suggest that everybody is talking around each other and it may be pointless to continue. 00:28:45 *sigh* 00:28:46 the point was in being more aware of how people react to questioning of their moral character 00:29:11 if someone cares more about their own ego than the feelings of others, asking them nicely is not going to work 00:30:21 also, often they don't care about the feelings of others /because they're racist/, like, do you expect the people complaining about "dirty mexicans taking their jobs" to care about the feelings of said immigrants? 00:31:13 sorry, this is why I left this channel in this first place, I suppose I'll go back to that 00:31:16 nooo 00:31:23 at least this time it wasn't white people going on about how it's so great to use the n-word 00:31:26 -!- Fiora has left. 00:31:28 fuck 00:31:40 welp 00:31:42 that ended badly 00:33:00 oh no what happened i wasnt paying attention 00:33:47 i'm not really sure 00:33:50 but it wasn't pleasant 00:36:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:37:45 -!- Bike has joined. 00:40:00 Stupid connection. 00:40:08 I said: "It started badly." clever imo 00:40:49 i won't dispute that 00:40:57 parts of the middle weren't quite as bad 00:41:03 the ones where kmc was speaking 00:42:12 I mean, I'm still confused about what the hell you meant by it being hypocritical to list instances of a guy being an ass, not even to his face which removes the "but what if he doesn't understand" aspect. Normally I'd let it drop, but I'm a bit angry at the moment. 00:42:40 yeah, ok 00:43:19 i kind of had some thoughts mulling around from a while ago, i think i jumped on that blog post as a starting point for airing them 00:43:51 yeah, i did the same thing once. 00:43:57 i don't think what Phantom_Hoover was saying was that different from what i was saying 00:44:03 at least I don't understand the significant differences 00:44:16 -!- Fiora has joined. 00:44:20 but maybe I wasn't reading carefully because the conversation was shitty 00:44:26 um.... I'm sorry 00:44:43 i'm sorry also 00:46:15 * Bike breathes some relief 00:46:34 EVERYTHING IS BACK TO NORMAL so, bf derivatives are shit aren't they 00:46:49 the universal conversation starter, huh 00:46:54 To make a random chance of % that is input from the user, is a good way, to make up a random 7-bit number and then try again if greater than 99, and then to check if the generated number is less than the user's number? 00:50:59 good by which criteria? 00:51:23 zzo38, well it's statistically sound 00:52:50 kmc: Well, what would you use? 00:53:42 rand(100), most likely; you're clearly operating under some unspoken constraints 00:54:14 rand() generally sucks and on some platforms the low bits are suckier 00:54:25 nonshittyrand(100) 00:54:39 zzo38: I can't say for sure what I would use if I don't know what the constraints are. 00:54:41 does zzo need csprng quality for this? 00:54:47 just as I can't say if your choice is "a good way" 00:54:53 it seems correct and simple 00:54:57 Bike, doesn't matter 00:55:01 i mean if it's just a game or something you may as well use a lcg if you want 00:55:13 Phantom_Hoover: i mean re: rand() generally sucking 00:55:21 it'll be exactly as random as the 7-bit number 00:55:33 uh 00:55:41 modulo some stupid corner cases i just thought up 00:55:53 What stupid corner cases? 00:56:25 If it is bad random bits generator then I can think it would be bad. 00:56:31 well e.g. if your rng is something random under 100 with a 50% chance, and 100 with a 50% chance 00:58:15 Well, in that case it would work if everything under 100 is uniform, it works for this purpose, but isn't a good generator anyways. 00:58:54 hence 'stupid' 00:59:14 O, OK, so that's what you mean. 01:03:21 * kmc has arrived on howstuffworks.com somehow and is marveling at stupid article titles 01:03:26 "Fact or Fiction: Apple" 01:03:34 "Unplug Your Laptop Forever in 7 Steps" 01:03:36 what :D 01:03:47 step 1: unplug laptop step 2: throw laptop into ocean 01:05:40 what if there's a plug in the ocean 01:05:44 saw these at the store today: http://www.dyson.com/fans/fansandheaters/comparetherange.aspx 01:05:47 basically UFO technology 01:05:48 can laptops be waterproofed 01:06:02 yes dyson is basically the stephen wolfram of air-based appliances 01:06:10 is he crazy? 01:06:22 he just cannot come to grips with the fact that he is never going to revolutionise the field 01:06:35 i used one of his hand dryers the other day, i didn't think you could make a hand dryer look like something out of 2001 but boy howdy was i wrong 01:06:53 i remember when those fans came out 01:07:04 the news was plastered with it for some reason 01:07:16 and it was all like "are you SICK of all the BUFFETING from normal fans??" 01:07:23 lol 01:07:59 those hand-driers are the best though 01:08:26 i love the way they make this weird groove in your hand 01:09:12 yeah dyson airblade is the best 01:09:38 i interviewed at a company that had them in the bathrooms and it nearly sold me on them 01:09:42 You know the joke about 'dry hands on pants' wrt air dryers? That happens to me more often with paper towels. The (normal) hand dryer in the bathroom works quite well although takes some time. 01:10:00 no sgeo 01:10:03 is that even a joke 01:10:10 press button, receive joke 01:10:23 it would help if you told us the joke 01:10:57 Not a joke, just ... in the instructions on how to use, I've seen '3) dry hands on pants' etched on and I assumed that that was somewhat common for people to say 01:11:36 http://everything2.com/title/How+to+use+a+hand+dryer 01:11:46 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:12:21 hand carving things into a metal plate sounds like a lot of work for a hoary joke 01:12:57 nah, you can do it with a paper clip 01:13:19 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:20 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:20 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 01:13:24 yeah but you can only write straight lines! 01:13:32 also wow, that's a very precise netsplit 01:13:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:14:20 -!- kmc has joined. 01:14:27 i got disconnected from freenode :'( 01:14:30 have you ever been in like a rest stop bathroom 01:15:03 i avoid them as a rule 01:15:43 i ate a sandwich from a rest stop bathroom and there were worms living inside it that gave me superpowers and made me super-intelligent 01:16:08 "that sounds like a reference" 01:16:18 oh wait that was an episode of futurama 01:16:26 No, couldn't be. 01:16:26 kmc : () -> 'a ref 01:16:36 kmc is the nickname for Phillip J Fry. 01:16:49 that sounds like a joke 01:16:49 @PLT_FuturamaToday_ebooks 01:16:50 Unknown command, try @list 01:16:55 noooo i'm that guy now 01:17:53 that reminds me 01:18:05 ages ago i found this surprisingly poetic ebooks thing 01:18:06 https://twitter.com/nuhalujemon 01:18:23 it's just links now though :( 01:20:15 what... is this 01:20:28 oh, spam 01:20:42 in a hundred years this will be considered the peak of 2010s art 01:21:17 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:21:46 "Aristocratic nature is expressed far more in the Russian wolfhound that." 01:23:05 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:23:05 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:24:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 01:25:25 -!- quintopia has changed nick to Guest31700. 01:27:07 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:28:25 -!- bengt_ has joined. 01:28:32 "A court in Guatemala has found former military leader Efrain Rios Montt guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity." 01:28:39 shocked to read that the US was a major supporter of his regime 01:29:30 did the us support any third-world regimes with a decent human rights record 01:29:37 -!- oklofok has joined. 01:29:48 i'll let you know if i think of one 01:29:53 i mean they can't have been deliberately picking the awful ones, they're not stupid evil 01:30:04 the thing is, every country had leftist guerillas 01:30:14 and the US supported whoever would suppress them most brutally 01:30:36 good point 01:30:40 So I'm going to be doing a senior thesis starting about half a year from now. 01:30:48 interesting to note that the nazis also got their start in suppressing leftist guerillas 01:30:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:31:01 It's likely that I'm going to do it on some topic in theoretical computer science. 01:31:07 traitor 01:31:13 Phantom__Hoover: me? 01:31:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:31:41 Anyway, one idea I had was to do a paper on the generalized star height problem. 01:31:51 star height? 01:31:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalized_star_height_problem 01:32:02 Phantom__Hoover: iran under the shah was ok 01:32:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 01:32:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:32:39 There's this one paper summing it up, but I feel like it would take me a semester just to get through that paper. 01:32:45 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:32:47 heh. 01:33:47 So I'll probably want to figure out something easier. 01:34:11 Oh, lemme think. Is there an area of mathematics I feel like I know particularly well? No, not really. 01:35:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:35:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:35:45 How about addition chains? To pick a random unsolved problem i'm aware of 01:35:47 topology 01:35:49 topology is cool 01:35:52 -!- heroux_ has joined. 01:35:57 But I don't know topology well at all. 01:36:09 -!- samebcha1e has joined. 01:36:33 well that's your fault 01:36:52 A problem I found myself particularly interested in once was finding closed forms of linear recurrence sequences. 01:37:05 It's a solved problem. 01:37:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:37:20 in Iran the post-coup regime (1953-1979) was pretty brutal I think 01:37:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK 01:37:33 But the particular thing that interested me was what happens to repeated roots. 01:37:35 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:37:36 -!- samebchase has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:37:36 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:37 -!- npnth has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:37:45 laggggggg 01:38:21 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 01:38:23 If you have a repeated root, then the root shows up in the solution multiple times, and each time it shows up, it's multiplied by the next power of n. 01:38:30 Why does that happen? 01:38:59 Gosh, lemme think about that now. 01:39:19 'Gharbzadegi (Persian: غربزدگی‎) is a pejorative Persian term variously translated as "Westoxification," "West-struck-ness", "Westitis", "Euromania", or "Occidentosis".' 01:39:31 that is an amazing word 01:39:41 kmc: look up the white revolution 01:39:42 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:39:42 I can't even tell if this is me or freenode. 01:39:50 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 01:40:00 i was lagging pretty bad 01:40:21 -!- rodgort` has joined. 01:40:32 so, if i'm actually here: i'm not saying the shah was great obviously but it was probably better than like guatemala. 01:40:33 What's a linear recurrence relation for 1, 2, 3, ...? I guess... a_n = 2a_(n-1) - a_(n-2). So the characteristic polynomial is... which way does it go... I guess it's the same either way. t^2 - 2t + 1. 01:40:51 Which, of course, factors as (t - 1)(t - 1). Which is a parabola with a double root at 1. 01:41:00 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 01:41:03 -!- abumirqaan has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:41:03 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:41:04 Bike_: fair, I don't know the history well enough to draw those distinctions 01:41:07 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:41:08 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:41:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:42:19 OK, what the hell, I can read everything in the logs, and send messages, but I see no one else's. 01:42:19 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:42:19 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:42:19 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 01:42:27 -!- npnth has joined. 01:42:31 -!- Bike has joined. 01:42:51 I'm not noticing anything wrong on my end. 01:43:45 kmc: I only say this because I saw an Iranian guy on a forum rant about people using AJAX as a straightforward "CIA bad!!" thing when that (unsurprisingly) glosses over the history. 01:43:45 Once. 01:44:13 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 01:44:13 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 01:44:13 -!- [mbm] has quit (*.net *.split). 01:44:23 -!- [mbm] has joined. 01:44:34 who the hell is [mbm] 01:44:40 So you can think of t as being the "shove the sequence over" operator. Does it matter which way... doesn't seem to. So this polynomial gives you a new operator which, when applied to your sequence, makes it all zero. 01:44:41 who the hell is hogeyui 01:44:45 sure, I think you can pretty well argue that staging coups in someone else's country is bad regardless of whether the new guy is really terrible or just kind of terrible 01:44:55 it was definitely bad, yes 01:44:55 why are there so many people in this channel who never talk 01:45:03 isn't every channel like that? 01:45:14 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 01:45:14 Where did CakeProphet go? 01:45:32 kmc, something something something prime directive 01:45:49 tswett, he turned into kallisti and appears to have since fucked off 01:46:05 good riddance imo, i haven't forgiven him for portal chess 01:46:15 Oh, and the Phillippines was uh... not a hellhole? 01:46:26 Most of it anyway. 01:46:37 They just have hilariously corrupt politics 01:46:58 and only a few maoist insurgencies! 01:47:24 Sure enough, t - 1 is an operator that, when applied twice, makes the thing zero... and I feel like this must have something to do with derivatives. 01:47:28 i remember the history of singapore was quite stupid 01:47:43 haha yes they got sort of kicked out of malaysia 01:48:06 the PM or whoever made a speech saying how sad he was that independence was happening 01:48:20 so uh what did mao say that people found particularly insightful / novel such that they became maoists 01:48:39 well, he was pretty good at revolution 01:49:03 and specifically in a mostly rural country i guess 01:49:07 beyond that i dunno 01:49:41 i wonder if there are ay hoxhaist insurgencies... 01:50:15 I'm watching "Dalek" 01:50:24 One of the Colombian ones is Hoxhaist, apparnetly. 01:50:35 Are they idiots? They can't just say "Ok, this electronic lock has no correct combination anymore" 01:50:39 What does the derivative of the characteristic polynomial mean, conceptually... what does the whole polynomial mean... why am I still talking even though presumably nobody's listening... 01:50:45 And no protections against brute forcing? 01:51:30 isn't Dalek from like 1963 01:51:44 The NuWho episode 01:51:50 oh. 01:52:21 wtf it's using sounds from Creatures Docking Station 01:52:24 kmc: but yeah i think a lot of it's the tactics? like the vietcong used the maoist insurgency model and they wer ehella successful. just a guess though 01:54:04 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 01:54:49 -!- ais523_ has joined. 01:56:46 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (*.net *.split). 01:56:47 -!- ais523 has quit (*.net *.split). 01:57:17 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 01:57:48 I guess it's, like, you factor it, and you do them all except you forget one, and then do that with all of them... 01:58:31 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 01:58:33 -!- samebchase has joined. 01:58:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:59:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:00:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:00:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:00:37 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 02:02:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:02:56 -!- ais523_ has joined. 02:03:02 -!- npnth has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- rodgort` has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- samebcha1e has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- sebbu2 has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:02 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:03 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:03 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 02:03:16 -!- npnth has joined. 02:03:54 -!- iamcal__ has changed nick to iamcal_. 02:03:58 It's like, you take the sequence 1, 1, 1, ..., and you repeatedly integrate it... except that's not what you're doing at all, is it... and do you even start with that sequence in the first place... 02:04:36 -!- FireFly has joined. 02:05:20 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 02:05:33 i don't know what mao said about tactics 02:05:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:07:20 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:07:21 -!- madb4rd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:07:21 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:07:27 Goddammit even the Doctor is an idiot in this episode. 02:08:49 So occurrences of the same root stack on top of each other, and they do that multiplication thing... that multiplication thing which consists of, like, multiplying... 02:09:29 -!- madb4rd has joined. 02:09:36 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:09:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:09:37 -!- bengt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:09:38 -!- bengt_ has joined. 02:09:50 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 02:10:06 If you convolute a constant sequence with itself, you get a linear sequence. If you convolute an exponential sequence with itself... 02:10:06 Sgeo, why are you watching doctor who for fuck's sake 02:11:01 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 02:11:01 -!- mnoqy has quit (*.net *.split). 02:11:02 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 02:11:27 Then that's linear-times-exponential, sure enough. But if you convolute two different exponential sequences... better place to start, what if you convolute a constant with an exponential... 02:11:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 02:12:26 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:13:25 Here's an exponential sequence: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, .... Here's a constant sequence: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, .... Convolute them, and you get this sequence: 1, 3, 7, 15, 31, .... So somehow it's turned into an exponential sequence *plus* a constant sequence. 02:15:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:15:43 -!- Bike has joined. 02:15:43 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:15:43 -!- carado has joined. 02:16:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:16:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:17:22 I want to see the Doctor fail hard. 02:17:39 I want him to make that choice, that choice to save one and risk everything... and then everything comes down 02:18:33 * Bike looks up at netsplits in astonishment 02:18:55 So those sequences correspond to 1/(1-2x) and 1/(1-x), and their convolution is of course 1/(1-2x)(1-x), which can also be written as 1/(1-3x+2x^2), which doesn't really look spectacular. But that partial fraction expansion... how do partial fractions work, anyway... 02:19:45 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 02:20:13 -!- Effilry has joined. 02:20:15 srand(time(NULL)) is a terrible hack that shouldn't ever be necessary 02:20:26 -!- mroman has joined. 02:20:27 what should we seed with 02:20:33 bytes from /dev/urandom 02:20:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:47 actually Linux passes some randomness to every new process, in the ELF auxv 02:20:55 so you wouldn't even need to make a separate syscall 02:20:58 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 02:21:12 Maybe I should start reading Watchmen 02:21:38 so don't bother seeding, or 02:22:24 ideally the default seed would be from urandom / auxv AT_RANDOM 02:22:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:22:40 I have problems with the connect 02:22:40 of course people would still write srand(time(NULL)) for the following 20 years 02:22:42 I have problems with the connection 02:22:51 zzo38: a lot of us do 02:23:43 seeding rand with time is easy to understand, though 02:23:48 and you don't think about the attacks... 02:24:55 Take a screenshot, hash it, and use that as your seed! :D 02:25:00 Um. How likely is stuff to try to content-sniff something with MIME-type application/json? 02:25:03 -!- sivoais has joined. 02:25:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:25:18 -!- ais523_ has joined. 02:25:26 wow it's netsplitty today 02:25:26 Sgeo: why do you ask? 02:25:54 Just a question. 02:26:10 -!- ais523 has quit (*.net *.split). 02:26:10 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:26:12 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 02:26:22 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 02:26:52 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:27:15 -!- iamcal__ has changed nick to iamcal_. 02:28:53 This is really the sort of thing I should just google 02:29:48 What idiocy is on the scale of content-sniffing? I haven't picked up the book in a while 02:30:13 Content sniffing is where you look at the content to guess how to interpret it, right? 02:30:46 Yes 02:31:03 is that still used on web content? 02:31:18 yes because everything is ruined forever 02:31:41 i like the thing where you can trick Internet Explorer into interpreting a page as UTF-7 02:31:57 Well, I've heard IE does it, but others? 02:32:07 +ADw-script+AD4-alert(+ACI-Hello, world+ACEAIg)+ADsAPA-/script+AD4 02:32:10 also: can you do a "bush hid the facts" level thing 02:32:26 kmc, ....bluh so urlencoding isn't enough 02:32:42 well HTML escaping is more germane 02:32:43 but yes 02:32:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:33:13 The problem with whitelisting allowed characters is not realizing that an innocent + or - can be bad too 02:33:16 I wonder how IE detects character encodings. Naive Bayes classifiers? 02:33:21 So it might be in the whitelist 02:33:25 -!- JesseH has joined. 02:33:34 «UTF-7 is generally not used as a native representation within applications as it is very awkward to process. Despite its size advantage over the combination of UTF-8 with either quoted-printable or base64, the Internet Mail Consortium recommends against its use.» wow really you don't say 02:33:34 Anyone working on a cool esolang? 02:33:41 is utf-7 an esolang 02:33:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:58 Well, it's not that + and - are bad; it's that the same bytes may be decoded one way to get + and -, and another way to get bad characters. 02:34:08 -!- sivoais has joined. 02:34:52 -!- kmc has set topic: is now the focus of a legal battle between Pull My Finger and iFart | Chinese graphics card problem resolved! (Again!) | I +JmU UTF-7 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:34:57