00:00:14 this is because siberia is huge 00:00:21 as big as wales??? 00:00:31 even bigger, in some parts 00:00:33 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:00:34 significantly bigger 00:00:41 the joke was comparing everything to the size of wales guys 00:00:52 Phantom_Hoover: do you know about: cpos 00:00:56 and much more has happened 00:01:04 because let's face it who knows about wales 00:01:12 or its history 00:01:28 (i do not!) 00:01:39 honestly siberia is basically too big for me to comprehend 00:01:46 sakha by itself is about as big as india 00:01:54 which has like four billion people in it 00:01:57 Bike: just like america 00:02:08 no i've been to america it's not that big 00:02:10 canada, maybe 00:02:18 america is huge 00:02:26 it's just the ass of the world 00:02:30 it's mostly alaska though 00:02:31 as we say here 00:02:32 everything bigger than the UK is huge 00:02:36 no i wasn't even counting alaska 00:02:38 alaska does not count 00:02:58 i'm pretty sure the british empire at greatest extent was bigger than the US is now... 00:03:04 of course that probably /includes/ parts of the us 00:03:32 british empire was biggest once iirc 00:03:39 yeah but... 00:03:49 for a start those didn't really count as places, it was just sort of adding to the list of bragging rights 00:04:05 for a second I WAS BORN IN 1995 OK 00:04:27 oh hey it didn't include any US, except maybe that tiny part of Canada near Minnesota 00:04:33 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Iq8P_KCMf6U/SXfRqFbWDBI/AAAAAAAAAB0/0-eXe_Orw_o/s400/british+empire+greatest+extent.png 00:04:45 (shitty size) 00:05:09 it's ok i got my magnifying glass out 00:13:52 Bike, wait was the british empire ever actually part of the UK] 00:13:58 http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02388/BRITAIN_2388153b.jpg I'm reminded of this image 00:14:05 (white: countries britain did not invade) 00:14:06 BRITAIN 00:14:26 Phantom_Hoover: the UK is confusing enough now, do i really have to bother about the past too 00:14:58 it was simpler in the past, wasn't it 00:15:03 Fiora: when did britain invade, like, ethiopia 00:15:25 the confusion now is because of the long and messy process of dismantling the empire 00:15:35 russia would have been the civil war i suppose 00:16:40 indonesia... during malaysia apparently 00:17:30 Fiora: damn, we really missed out on sweden. 00:17:36 portugal, like, the peninsular war? 00:17:36 wait 00:17:37 and bolivia. 00:17:41 we didn't invade sweden 00:17:43 FUCK THIS PLACE 00:18:31 yeah i can't tell when portugal was invaded you have a treaty in force from fucking 1373 00:18:44 1372 00:19:06 Fiora: great map :) 00:19:31 when did the UK invade norway 00:19:40 nazi times? 00:19:46 yeah maybe during wwii 00:20:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign ah yep 00:20:16 this is obviously a stretchy definition of "invade", but hey 00:21:00 it's also confusing because modern borders 00:21:05 definitely not during ww2 00:21:09 yeah that too 00:21:14 like... canada 00:21:24 it's not like britain invaded south sudan 00:21:28 heh 00:21:48 this map is too old to have south sudan i think 00:22:08 war on terror wasn't found yet 00:22:21 does this count being given a protectorate as 'invading' 00:22:34 it counts pretty much everything as invading, near as i can tell 00:23:21 "glancing at once" 00:23:39 at least if there is no uno-policy 00:23:57 i mean, it's good for rhetorical points, not so much for accuracy 00:24:21 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html 00:24:25 that's the article, I think 00:24:39 now adding "so look out Luxembourg" to the end of all headlines 00:24:45 XD 00:24:48 noooo my native luxembourg :( 00:24:57 don't worry 00:25:15 ah, so it includes everything that has had british military presence, or privateers/pirates/armed explorers operating with the approval of their government 00:26:00 "new research" 00:26:29 "fuck, we DID invade the maldives that one time, didn't we' 00:26:41 "new scans have detected british soldiers in 9 out of 10 countries" 00:26:55 wait this map is new enough to have south sudan 00:26:58 ergh. 00:27:30 i remember when they made south sudan 00:27:58 there was a guy in my school whose family was from sudan and another who was from algeria 00:28:17 Bike: so like I was reading about the south sea bubble and /wooooow/ 00:28:19 and the latter was gloating to the former about how he was now from the largest african country 00:28:31 It's like, financial scam stuff from today, 300 years ago 00:28:37 Fiora: the what 00:28:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company 00:29:00 remember the guy that made up a fake island and sold people shares of it 00:29:07 a company basically created to pawn off the debt of the british government 00:29:17 hm i don't think the UK ever invaded east timor per se. fucked it over, yes, but at a distance 00:29:29 and they gave it resource/trade rights for a region of the world that seemed valuable, but actually wasn't, because the spanish owned it and they were insanely restricted 00:29:41 and they gave out tons of shares, bribed people, did tons of marketing and promotion, and the share prices soared 1000% 00:29:54 Fiora: it's beyond me how you come up with a plan like "let's make a company and give it a monopoly over a continent" 00:30:03 resulting in an economic crash as the bubble popped and thousands of people went bankrupt and ruined countless british royalty 00:30:08 we're just that clever 00:30:11 see 00:30:24 (and countless non-royalty too) 00:30:29 The Governor and Company of the merchants of Great Britain, trading to the South Seas and other parts of America, and for the encouragement of fishing 00:30:33 oh yeah 00:30:35 fantastic name 00:30:37 i love fishing 00:30:37 rolls off the tongue 00:30:51 i wonder who first came up with the idea of naming things short enough that people will actually remember them 00:30:52 it was like, everything. financial scam artists, politicians trying to pawn off debt, politicians being bribed, cheesy financial constructions 00:30:57 TGaCotMoGBTttSSaOPoAaftEoF for short 00:31:05 and like 00:31:06 Fiora, oh come on 00:31:12 realised that you don't have to explain literally everything about a thing in its name 00:31:15 there wasn't that much british royalty 00:31:29 -!- augur has joined. 00:31:31 have you ever tried counting the british royalty? 00:31:32 sorry, I mean aristocracy I guess to be more precise 00:31:33 there's a lot 00:31:41 rich titled people <.< 00:31:45 pretty sure i couldn't count them 00:31:59 "The Bubble Act, which forbade the creation of joint-stock companies without royal charter, was promoted by the South Sea company itself before its collapse" nice 00:32:16 i also like the name there 00:32:31 i'm pretty sure the cardinality of the royals is at most aleph null 00:32:33 R v Cawood (1724) 2 Ld. Raym. 1361, the only prosecution brought under the Act which, according to L.C.B. Gower, (Principles of Modern Company Law, 4th Ed., 31) "decided nothing of importance". 00:32:45 there's so many things they did that basically feel amazingly deja-vuish 00:32:52 like, the whole thing feels like it's actually a financial scam from 2008 or something 00:32:58 except, like, with some bit about south america 00:33:01 did they cite an economics paper that turned out to be largely made up 00:33:02 are we playing ask elliott what to do with my life 00:33:04 [OH BURN] 00:33:10 XD 00:33:13 elliott: waht should i do with my life 00:33:21 other than learn to spell 00:33:24 shachaf: discover uppercase letters 00:33:34 "A resolution was proposed in parliament that bankers be tied up in sacks filled with snakes and tipped into the murky Thames." 00:33:35 elliott: uppercase letters are stupid 00:33:39 «The most commercially significant aspect of the company's monopoly trading rights to the Spanish empire was the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht's slave-trading 'Asiento', which granted the exclusive right to sell slaves in all of the American colonies. The Asiento set a quota of selling 4800 people into slavery per year» 00:33:44 europe is fuck 00:33:52 elliott: what's the point of having two equivalent sets of letters 00:34:04 most of which look completely different 00:34:06 "during the course of 96 voyages in twenty-five years, the South Sea Company purchased 34,000 slaves of whom 30,000 survived the voyages across the Atlantic" 00:34:10 Bike, which way around of a quote was it 00:34:12 where you take a letter from one set if it's at the beginning of a sentence and/or name 00:34:18 it makes no sense 00:34:20 Bike: the best part was how the import duties on slaves were actually so high that the "trading rights" weren't even worth anything 00:34:21 Phantom_Hoover: wh 00:34:27 was it like you have to sell AT LEAST 4800 people 00:34:30 it was like, a whole thing constructed to look valuable but not actually be valuable 00:34:31 *quota 00:34:34 oh quota 00:34:36 kmc: what should i do with my life 00:34:45 Fiora: haha 00:35:03 Phantom_Hoover: lower bound, looks like 00:35:14 "Disputes connected with it led to the War of Jenkins' Ear (1739)." hey i forgot about the best war ever 00:35:19 i like how it just casually implies literally four thousand slaves died travelling 00:35:20 shachaf: make friends. help people. find ways to help people be happy. hug people. have fun. make the world a little bit better. 00:35:35 if I had to guess the mortality rate among non-slaves was probably pretty high too at sea <.< 00:35:37 elliott: "In other words, approximately 11% of humans transported as slaves died in transport. This was a relatively low mortality rate on the Middle Crossing" 00:35:51 haha 00:35:54 if anything I would be almost unsurprised if fewer slaves died than seamen >_< 00:35:55 south sea company, high quality slave trade 00:35:56 protip slavery sucked 00:36:00 because the salves were more valuable 00:36:02 *slaves 00:36:23 Fiora: the slaves were still in shitty(ier) cargo hold conditions, though 00:36:25 and the british navy just, like, ""impressed"" people. or something 00:36:34 (worst euphemism ever) 00:36:36 i'm sure you've seen the diagrams of slave holds 00:36:41 yeah ._. 00:36:46 `addquote shachaf: make friends. help people. find ways to help people be happy. hug people. have fun. make the world a little bit better. 00:37:00 1036) shachaf: make friends. help people. find ways to help people be happy. hug people. have fun. make the world a little bit better. 00:37:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:African_slave_trade.png it's kind of pretty sad how little we know about precolonial africa :/ 00:37:42 especially the parts not directly relevant to slave traders 00:38:00 shachaf: i don't know, what are you doing now? 00:38:14 «In 1807, the UK Parliament passed the Bill that abolished the trading of slaves. The King of Bonny (now in Nigeria) was horrified at the conclusion of the practice: "We think this trade must go on. That is the verdict of our oracle and the priests. They say that your country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself."» 00:38:30 `run sed -i '1036s/>/> /' quotes 00:38:39 No output. 00:38:46 i'm pretty sure the cardinality of the royals is at most aleph null <-- now now, they could be fractally distributed 00:39:28 " King Jaja of Opobo, a former slave himself, completely refused to do business with slavers" hm not bad 00:40:14 but then the brits invaded and killed him. thx 00:40:24 "the east, as Jaja declared himself as the middle-man in palm Oil trading, thus asking them to stop trading directly with the European. This resulted in a war (Ikot Udo Obong War) between Jaja and the Annang and Ibuno people" 00:40:28 "In 1887, he was deceived when he was told to go and negotiate with the Queen of England by the British and sent on exile to Saint Vincent in the West Indies." 00:40:53 kmc: "nothing" to a first approximation 00:41:31 ;-; 00:42:03 Fiora: i think i need a doll of niall ferguson to punch when i read these things 00:42:19 `quote 1036 00:42:23 1036) shachaf: make friends. help people. find ways to help people be happy. hug people. have fun. make the world a little bit better. 00:42:26 cool i did it right 00:42:44 who's niall ferguson 00:42:46 thanks 00:42:47 i move to `run sed -i '1036s/shachaf: //' quotes 00:42:58 Phantom_Hoover! :o 00:43:39 Phantom_Hoover: a conservative historian. "The 19th-century empire undeniably pioneered free trade, free capital movements and, with the abolition of slavery, free labour. " etc 00:44:26 you mean niels ferguson? 00:44:41 nope. 00:45:02 relatedly i just found a "Politically Incorrect Guide" to the british empire 00:45:23 he's married to a former editor of the daily mail apparently 00:45:28 advertising such unknown facts on the cover as that they ended the slave trade and fought nazis once!! 00:45:37 they stood alone 00:47:28 huh the kingdom of bonny still exists 00:48:57 There's a lot of subnational kingdoms in African countries, especially the west I think. 00:49:17 shachaf: I hope the suggestion isn't too terrible 00:49:52 meanwhile: i note that niall ferguson is a scotsman who has essentially dedicated his life to making the english look good 00:50:05 haha 00:50:14 what do you think he thinks of the scottish excursion in panama 00:50:39 you'd have to ask him, i don't want to go anywhere near such a twisted mindset 00:50:45 good decision 00:51:20 meanwhile meanwhile: christ, timothy mcveigh was annoying 00:51:22 "Iceland, invaded in 1940 by the British after the neutral nation refused to enter the war on the Allies side" er what 00:51:32 what, the bomber? 00:51:35 holy shit it's raining a lot 00:51:42 Bike: nice 00:51:47 we should have invaded switzerland too 00:51:52 they're like 10x more annoying than iceland imo 00:52:06 the US semi-accidentally bombed them a few times 00:52:11 i like semi-accidentally 00:52:14 "sorry, we missed" 00:52:18 "but we still hate you..." 00:52:28 basically 00:52:54 "Initial British aims were to destroy all landing grounds (blue) and secure key harbours (red). Due to transportation problems it was more than a week before troops arrived in the north of the country." that must have been an awkward week 00:53:35 "American forces relieved the British a year later, although their country was still officially a non-belligerent. " this is so dumb. how is everything about this so dumb 00:53:49 "British: 1 killed (suicide)" 00:54:54 "Much of the operational planning was conducted en route. The force was supplied with few maps, most of poor quality, with one of them having been drawn from memory. No one in the expedition was fully fluent in the Icelandic language" 00:55:08 woow 00:55:23 tally ho men 00:55:54 "On 3 May 1940, the 2nd Royal Marine Battalion in Bisley, Surrey, received orders from London to be ready to move on two hours notice for an unknown destination. The battalion had only been activated the month before." is this even real 00:56:10 let's just send our least competent marines 00:56:13 to invade the country. 00:56:18 `run sed -i '1036s/shachaf: //' quotes 00:56:26 No output. 00:56:50 imo no quote tampering 00:56:51 `revert 00:56:54 delete it if you want 00:56:54 Done. 00:57:07 bahaha they sent a dispatch in plaintext so they all knew they were going to iceland despite it being super secret 00:57:34 "One of the newly recruited marines committed suicide en route. The voyage was otherwise uneventful." 00:57:51 Bike: are we sure this wasn't just an elaborate plan to get rid of the most useless team 00:58:13 "oh yeah, you're going to a really remote place, uh... iceland. it's iceland. here's a map I drew" 00:58:41 they flew a recon plane over reykjavik before they landed 00:58:47 iceland had no planes at the time. STEALTH 00:59:25 did iceland even have like 00:59:26 anything of use 00:59:29 why were they invading 00:59:33 björk 00:59:46 what if the nazis invaded it elliott 00:59:47 what then 00:59:58 Uncomfortable with the crowd, Consul Shepherd turned to the Icelandic police. "Would you mind ... getting the crowd to stand back a bit, so that the soldiers can get off the destroyer?" he asked. "Certainly," came the reply. 01:00:05 elliott: phantom hoover's got it. 01:00:23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Iceland_Export_Treemap.jpg wooow 01:00:32 Phantom_Hoover: come on you have to know about cpos 01:00:35 One Icelander snatched a rifle from a marine and stuffed a cigarette in it. He then threw it back to the marine and told him to be careful with it. 01:00:39 these treemaps are the best 01:00:44 Bike: that's amazing 01:00:45 what the fuck is cpos 01:00:51 and Phantom_Hoover has it right 01:00:57 the brits invaded iceland so the germans couldn't 01:01:05 and the icelanders were more or less fine with this, at least as I heard 01:01:06 Phantom_Hoover: complete partial orders!! 01:01:08 advanced military strategy there 01:01:22 Fiora: aircraft, spaceships, and launch vehicles 01:01:29 okay but why would the germans invade iceland. why would anyone invade iceland 01:01:32 where's EVE Online in this map 01:01:38 kmc: I think it's only physical products 01:01:39 it is a few % of their economy 01:01:41 :/ 01:01:48 if the germans invaded iceland they would use them as breeding stock for an army of aryan supermen 01:01:51 otherwise you'd include, like, financial services and stuff I guess 01:01:52 elliott: well they already invaded norway 01:01:54 12% orthopedic appliances, including crutches...... 01:01:56 ... which I imagine would be a lot less after 2008 <.< 01:01:59 what the fuck is iceland 01:02:03 the germans were just invading everything 01:02:09 i wonder why they don't export fish 01:02:10 I'm guessing a lot of the thihngs on that chart are literally like, one company 01:02:15 because iceland is 300,000 people or so 01:02:15 and the brits were all SHIT let's get in on this 01:02:21 hagb4rd: fish are a big component of that chart... 01:02:23 look at the top 01:02:24 iceland is sort of the best 01:02:27 it's like a little toy company 01:02:28 er 01:02:30 toy country 01:02:32 <3 iceland, I should go back 01:02:35 (same thing amirite) 01:02:36 ;) 01:02:37 btw this is apparently the only time iceland has been invaded by anything 01:02:44 also: this is how iceland became independent 01:02:47 Bike: hahaha 01:02:51 it was part of denmark but denmark got nazi'd 01:02:53 Blah. 01:02:55 Bike: oh man googling 'iceland' is always a good idea 01:02:56 http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-17/in-iceland-an-app-to-warn-if-your-hookup-is-a-relative 01:02:59 I may need to buy a good laptop ASAP 01:03:05 i just get the feeling that everyone in iceland must be a really nice person 01:03:05 and the iceland government was like "well, nvm that king dude, let's just chill on our own" 01:03:09 because how could you not be 01:03:09 Sgeo: want recommendations? price range? 01:03:28 i want both recommendations and a price range plz 01:03:29 kmc: lol wtf 01:03:35 iceland is just like the most adorable country 01:03:37 I think I'll just buy the same model that I'm borrowing from Apex 01:03:37 i remember asking for laptop recommendations in here 01:03:42 nobody helped 01:03:42 kmc: that's incredible 01:03:51 The app includes an “incest-prevention alarm,” says Arnar Freyr Adalsteinsson, one of the developers. 01:03:59 i love the idea of a country being so small you have to constantly worry about incest 01:04:18 The app, called IslendingaApp—yes, Iceland App 01:04:24 because iceland is too small to need more than one app 01:04:27 the only app you ever need in iceland 01:04:34 Needs to be able to run Eclipse (or other good Java IDE, but at this point I'm used to Eclipse) smoothly, along with multiple Spring MVC applications and AngularJS pages 01:04:36 >.> 01:04:46 The British forces began their operations in Reykjavík by posting a guard at the post office and attaching a flier to the door. The flier explained in broken Icelandic that British forces were occupying the city and asked for cooperation in dealing with local Germans. 01:04:56 good notification of invasion 01:05:00 do you know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlpiri_people#Kinship 01:05:16 Bike: that's like uh 01:05:17 ooh i love kinship systems 01:05:20 god what was the guy 01:05:22 there was a guy 01:05:22 tldr: the Warlpiri have a complicated notion of kinship which corresponds to the order 8 dihedral group 01:05:26 who like got a gun 01:05:34 and declared he was taking over like a small british island? he lived there 01:05:39 kmc: beautiful 01:05:40 and a policeman came up to him and he was sitting on a bench 01:05:43 and asked him to put down the gun 01:05:45 and arrested him 01:05:47 and that was how it ended 01:05:50 also i have no idea what this says 01:05:55 Phantom_Hoover: do you know this 01:05:59 like i've seen kinship diagrams but... this isn't one 01:06:02 it was a great story 01:06:06 found this by googling 'dihedral group incest' 01:06:10 i do know this actually 01:06:11 nice 01:06:11 best search ever 01:06:15 Phantom_Hoover: great, find me a link 01:06:15 forgot most of the details 01:06:30 Is this what they mean by group action 01:06:33 -!- conehead has joined. 01:06:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sark#One-person_invasion_attempt 01:06:42 okay i GIS'd "warlpiri kinship" and i got a bunch of matrices?? help 01:06:45 kmc: note to self: being a Warlpiri is way too much work 01:06:50 not recommended 01:06:56 okay everybody click Phantom_Hoover's link 01:07:03 https://www.callmedrrob.com/wp-content/uploads/Advanced/Warlpiri/MotherAndFather.jpg i'm sorry are those kets 01:07:07 you may be disappointed 01:07:23 i found this http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/ReadingRoom/3.2/fig1.gif 01:07:38 what... 01:07:41 Phantom_Hoover: it's all fun and games until you shoot a cop 01:07:47 oh he didn't live there 01:07:48 television's hermeunetic circles 01:07:58 kmc, in this case he would then have shot all the cops 01:08:09 and more cops would have to be flown in specially 01:08:10 " Splitting the Atom of Kinship: Towards an understanding of the symbolic economy of the Warlpiri fire ceremony" 01:08:16 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/lost-world-the-last-days-of-feudal-sark-421545.html 01:08:20 this probably has a better version of the same story 01:08:28 and an image of... something 01:08:38 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:08:40 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 01:08:44 personally i like how kinship is so crazy anthropologists just use series of letters 01:08:44 "The eight subsections are interrelated in a pattern known in group theory as the order 8 dihedral group, D4." 01:08:47 @__@ 01:08:50 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 01:08:52 you don't say cousin you say father's sister's daughter 01:08:55 the guys at sealand had these m60 brownings once 01:08:55 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 01:08:56 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 01:08:59 which is like... FZD 01:09:01 or something 01:09:05 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 01:09:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:09:47 "The U.S. Navy remained at Naval Air Station Keflavik until 2006." ????? 01:10:00 elliott: "Although the British action was to forestall any risk of a German invasion, none had been planned. However, after the British invasion, the Germans prepared a plan to intervene," 01:10:10 haha 01:10:16 "wait the brits want iceland??? it must be good" 01:10:34 apparently it went about as well as operation sealion, which is the best naval invasion in history if you didn't know 01:10:34 haha 01:10:55 hmm this is weird 01:11:40 To the deafening sound of no traffic - transport on Sark is restricted to tractors, bicycles and horse and cart 01:11:45 "The 40,000 US marines stationed in Iceland outnumbered all adult men in Iceland at the time." 01:11:47 Phantom_Hoover: what is even with sark 01:12:16 "The guns started to fire in the second week of August 1940 and were not silenced until September 1944. They caused 3,059 alerts, 216 civilian deaths, and damage to 10,056 premises in the Dover area and much damage to shipping – perhaps the worst direct consequences of the plan outside the Battle of Britain, and the only part that worked." 01:12:24 okay but why would the germans invade iceland. why would anyone invade iceland <-- for the same reason they invaded norway, lots of coast line with direct access to the atlantic. 01:12:32 At the end of The Avenue there's a two-cell jail, more accustomed to holding tourists without a bed for the night than criminals. It is empty. There was a break-in at Sark's only jewellers, Rang, last summer, but it was all rather inept; the drunken offender left the island's voluntary policeman a series of clues, not least the string of jewels trailing back to his hotel. 01:12:33 well it's named after a ladies' undergarment 01:12:34 There was large-scale interaction between young Icelandic women and soldiers, which came to be known as Ástandið ("the condition" or "situation") in Icelandic. 01:12:39 of course it's weird 01:12:44 guys sark is literally a comedy 01:12:58 Fiora: you got to the part about going over the channel on barges with no air support, right 01:13:09 aslo excellent seafood 01:13:32 Bike: it was interesting how like, the air force was convinced they were not enough to defend an invasion, without naval superiority 01:13:55 and then like, ~2-3 years later, the exact opposite happened? 01:14:07 maybe the air force just wanted more planes 01:14:15 At such moments, a Sarkee would be well within his rights to invoke the ancient statute book and sound the Clameur de Haro. An islander who feels he has been wronged or assaulted in some way can drop to one knee, throw his hat to the ground, recite the Lord's Prayer in Norman French and then say: "Haro, haro, haro! A mon aide mon Prince, on me fait tort!" (Help me, my prince, someone does me wrong). The assailant must immediately cease what he is do 01:14:22 It would have been wonderful to see Dermot use the "Haro", but it was unlikely; the custom was last enacted in Sark in 1970, during a dispute over a garden wall. 01:14:28 if you are not reading this article on sark........ why not............ 01:14:40 XD 01:14:46 you make a good case elliott 01:14:54 stop it I am laughing at work (no actually keep going) 01:14:58 for fuck's sake wikipedia why can you not just describe this kinship system in group-theoretic terms 01:15:32 almost like kinship systems are generally of more interest to anthropologists than mathematicians 01:15:36 it's D8 and a group action, it's not that hard 01:16:39 Only Prince Charles, though, has slept at the Seigneurie - to avoid a diplomatic dispute between Jersey and Guernsey over where the prince should stay. 01:16:46 thank god we have sark for important things like this 01:17:15 The app, called IslendingaApp—yes, Iceland App <-- pretty sure that must mean icelander, not iceland 01:17:54 http://25.media.tumblr.com/9cda7793b750050b45a9dc69101c2179/tumblr_mkv4eaUvGF1qgcra2o1_500.gif internet 01:19:06 "The most recent [British invasion of Vietnam] – from 1945 to 1946 – saw the British fight a campaign for control of the country against communists, " it's a bit sad to see the news oversimplify these things 01:19:30 these things: literally every thing 01:19:53 yes 01:20:14 now onto sark 01:20:38 wait they're literally feudal? 01:21:50 in 2006 at least 01:22:07 "its own set of laws based on Norman law" 01:22:45 If one needed further proof of the village atmosphere on Sark, one need only know that the last major uprising was instigated by Beaumont's mother, the Dame herself. In her old age (she died at 90), Mrs Hathaway pressed for battery-powered buggies to be permitted on the island for those without mobility. 01:22:50 "God, yes, there was almost a revolution over that," says the Seigneur. "She said she couldn't get around any more without one, but Chief Pleas were up in arms. I think they thought it was one step on the road to having cars." 01:23:07 haha the guy voted to sack himself 01:23:23 good king 01:24:09 Sgeo: how much can you afford to spend on your laptop? 01:24:15 and do you want it to be particularly small or something 01:24:49 i've always been a fan of ThinkPads; the T series is the middle of the road, not too huge, reasonably powerful, not too expensive 01:25:02 so this literally happened because the barclay brothers decided that sark sucked 01:25:13 Sgeo: the most important thing is to load it up with as much RAM as you can 01:25:34 Don't care about particularly small. Not sure how much I can afford. At the end of the week I _should_ have two weeks worth of money, but a good amount of that is supposed to go to regular living expenses 01:25:39 Although I guess this too counts 01:25:39 yeah, picking a laptop depends a lot on what you need to do with it, I think 01:25:55 like I picked mine based on weight and having-a-good-graphics-card 01:25:56 Sgeo: usually RAM is much much cheaper if you buy it from amazon or newegg and install it yourself (which is very easy, if it's something you haven't done) 01:26:13 Any thoughts on EliteBooks? 01:26:16 though I did kind of splurge <.< 01:26:18 I have the X1 Carbon which unfortunately is an 'ultrabook' with soldered-on RAM, so you can't do that :/ 01:26:20 Because that's what the Apex one is 01:26:26 but I really like it overall 01:26:31 * Fiora uses an NP9150 01:26:51 also there's a lot of random crap labeled "ThinkPad" these days, so you can't take it as much as a mark of quality as used to be the case 01:26:59 but certain machines are still very good 01:27:08 wow they have a seneschal 01:27:23 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_space_bats oh my gosh 01:27:29 good title 01:27:36 "using it to debunk the possibility of a successful Operation Sea Lion by saying the only way it could be successful was if alien space bats helped the Nazis." 01:27:52 Fiora: a "gaming laptop" type thing? 01:27:54 Sgeo: I don't know how much is arbitrary groupthink, but most of my peers think the only non-Apple laptop worth buying is a ThinkPad 01:27:54 those worry me a lot 01:28:04 these are mainly programmer types 01:28:07 elliott: it was about the lightest one I could find with reasonable specs 01:28:11 (in terms of how good they are at the actual laptop part) 01:28:14 primogeniture 01:28:15 are you serious 01:28:20 i.e. 1080p glossy screen, i7, 7970M 01:28:28 Fiora: yeah i know about alien space bats, kinkajou used to talk about 'em 01:28:32 (that said this laptop has a screen and a keyboard and mouse plugged into it) 01:28:39 (so I'm not one to talk really) 01:28:49 (p.s. it is also terrible I really need to buy a new computer) 01:28:56 that said, I think that the heavier ones tend to be better if you can deal with their weight? since they tend to have better cooling 01:29:10 like I have a friend with an alienware laptop, she loves it, it's like 12 pounds or something though -_- 01:29:15 "Taxes will go up because suddenly people will want to be paid for doing the island's work." 01:29:16 Sgeo: I highly recommend the X1 Carbon if you want thin + light + good screen and are willing to pay for it 01:29:21 (it has a higher resolution than the X230 or whatever) 01:29:30 also a good battery that charges very quickly 01:29:39 Fiora: well yeah 01:29:45 Fiora: but I mean, the same applies to desktops :P 01:29:54 they're just really big laptops! and have great cooling 01:29:55 true XD but I guess one doesn't normally think of their weight too much 01:30:01 but particularly poor btatery life and weight 01:30:05 Pfffff 01:30:08 WEIGHT is only a factor for the WEAK 01:30:12 * Fiora is weak 01:30:18 yeah my UPS only lasts a few minutes 01:30:29 how to build a laptop: tie a keyboard and a monitor to a desktop with tape 01:30:35 google's servers all have a 12V battery inside, or so they say 01:30:37 does the Asus Zenbook U500VZ exist yet 01:30:39 and attach it to a battery power supply 01:30:41 will it ever exist 01:30:55 Fiora, this is because your japanese cartoons have made you PHYSIOLOGICALLY IMPOTENT 01:30:58 That... is much more expensive than the ~700 that I saw around EliteBook 01:31:00 elliott: http://improveverywhere.com/2008/02/25/mobile-desktop/ 01:31:08 Phantom_Hoover: is this science 01:31:12 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:31:34 "Some Sark residents have complained that the new system is not democratic and have compared the powers the new law granted to the Seneschal, an unelected member whose term the new law extended to the duration of his natural life," i see you're doing well with this democracy thing 01:31:38 elliott, imo yes 01:31:40 -!- mnoqy has changed nick to monqy. 01:31:41 On the one hand, I _need_ this laptop, on the other, I almost don't want to spend money on work 01:31:46 `welcome monqy 01:31:48 monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:31:49 Sgeo: well, can you get them to pay for it 01:31:53 -!- monqy has changed nick to mnoqy. 01:31:56 :-( 01:31:58 Probably not 01:32:02 Phantom_Hoover: or because of a combination of lack of testosterone, size, lack of exercise, and um... okay that's about it but 01:32:03 shachaf: someone sent messages to the wrong nick 01:32:06 :P 01:32:16 mnoqy: hang on hang on hang on 01:32:20 Fiora, yes, all these things are correlated 01:32:21 mnoqy: are you implying it was me 01:32:22 lack of testosterone caused by the animes (technical term) 01:32:23 don't listen to fiora, she's beefy as hell 01:32:29 shachaf: no 01:32:30 -_- 01:32:35 elliott, pretty much 01:32:36 shachaf: but whoever it was!!! watch out 01:32:37 she watched Angel Cop once and knocked out one of my teeth 01:32:41 ;] 01:32:46 I have no idea what angel cop is <.< 01:32:50 Cablevision doesn't consider me a permanent employee, and Apex... well, they're not exactly just giving me this laptop and buying me a new one. 01:32:52 mnoqy: who was it ;] 01:33:01 it's a typo, he means angle cop 01:33:06 are you not considered a permanent employee because you are employed by the recruitment firm instead 01:33:07 erm, buying themselves a new one 01:33:16 elliott, yes. 01:33:18 Fiora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVpwJbLLivU you're missing out. 01:33:20 ok. 01:33:28 My ID card says "Consultant" 01:34:00 phantom hoover my bag is already like 7kg 01:34:33 that is a lot of kgs 01:34:34 is "bag" slang here 01:34:46 like is it drugs 01:34:47 it's slang for "bag". 01:34:51 Bags are just one or more items on the ground. 01:34:52 bag of...animes??? 01:34:58 um. it's a bag. it's purple. it contains a laptop and a bunch of other stuff 01:34:58 sgeo. no. 01:34:59 Bag of animes. 01:35:07 bag of amines? 01:35:09 "messenger bag" might be the technical term 01:35:09 yep, that's me 01:35:12 It's been a while since I've played Eternal-Lands. Should I pick it back up again? 01:35:20 kmc: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Anime 01:35:24 Fiora is a messenger? 01:35:34 i hate when i turn on my speakers 01:35:38 and a tab has been playing noise for hours 01:35:40 without my knowledge 01:35:41 haha 01:35:46 IMO that should be banned 01:35:46 I think I kept getting perpetually dismayed by how long it would take to start doing magic 01:36:06 WHERE IS THE TAB 01:36:11 elliott: when I was in SF i had a startup idea (I swear, they put something in the water) for a company that would sell ads that start playing 20 min after you open a tab 01:36:13 soln have fewer tabs 01:36:22 soln block all sources of tab music 01:36:33 soln browser doesnt support music 01:36:36 kmc: hey have you considered moving to SF and working for a non web startup 01:36:36 kmc: I think that might get you lynched 01:36:38 soln use gopher 01:36:44 soln dont use computer 01:36:46 soln dont exist 01:36:47 Aren't there builds of Chromium that show a speaker icon in tabs that are playing sound? 01:36:59 theres an extension for it but im too lazy to install it 01:37:18 it probably takes more effort to complain than find an extension 01:37:26 elliott: I once had an ad that beat that. 01:37:28 u know, like, emotionally 01:37:31 In fact it was the worst ad of all. 01:37:43 ooh which ad 01:37:46 It was some flash thing which sent cockroaches crawling all over the web page. 01:37:54 "Here you won't have to compete with Chinese farming bots. Our farming bots are from all over the world, not only China. Just kidding." 01:38:03 mnoqy: it costs no emotional effort for me to complain 01:38:06 maybe you're just bad at complaining 01:39:31 heeelp i can't find the tab 01:39:35 maybe it'll just keep making noise forever 01:39:38 close all tabs 01:39:42 im sure you can attach event handling method listening to the righ webkit-audio property 01:39:52 shachaf: who should i work for in SF 01:39:56 or anywhere 01:40:01 what are your criteria 01:40:04 hagb4rd: probably that takes more effort than getting the extension 01:40:13 mnoqy: i have an audio-producing tab i want though 01:40:16 heck, considering elliott's tab count it probably takes more effort to search for it normally 01:40:29 kmc: work for me 01:40:31 maybe.. on the other side it would be a nidce excursion to these fields 01:40:34 elliott: well it shows an icon and then you can eliminate -most- tabs 01:40:47 my tabs are too small for the icon to show though 01:40:58 are you still working at that web startup 01:41:04 it colors your tab stub and then you can 01:41:06 shachaf: no 01:41:16 he got fired by quitting 01:41:17 or something 01:41:24 Fiora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Dark-Sky_Association huh, that's kinda cool 01:41:40 seriously though… 01:41:41 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:41:50 Bike: makes me sad about the sky here ._. 01:41:52 monqy's had enough of my shit 01:41:58 I can see like. 10 stars on a good day .____> 01:42:06 (er, good night. but.) 01:42:06 it's pretty dark out here 01:42:13 the sky is maroon here at night 01:42:18 i'm shit at astronomy though 01:42:23 so it's just a bunch of dots? 01:42:27 i miss the desert 01:42:30 I'm probably terrible but at least it's just. pretty 01:42:43 kmc: what happened there? 01:42:47 I think the last time I saw the milky way was when I visited some relatives out in the country a few years ago... 01:42:50 in the desert? 01:43:00 i don't think i've seen a proper sky ever 01:43:07 and i live in a sort of rural town 01:43:08 kmc: did you kill somebody? 01:43:16 i meant the web startup 01:43:17 i think the stars here are fairly visible, but clear nights are very rare 01:43:21 but the desert works too 01:43:56 shachaf: I was pissed off all the time at work. one of my coworkers was super annoying and there were a few other major annoyances, and the rest of it was fine but there was nothing really awesome to keep me going 01:44:02 there's a girl in london in my halls who was like "oh the sky here is so much clearer" 01:44:12 kmc: Sounds like #haskell. 01:44:14 note that this is in the middle of the midlands conurbation 01:44:22 heh yes maybe 01:44:23 i think it's my fault for mocking kmc's startup 01:44:29 that must have set it all off 01:44:31 s/in london/from london/ 01:45:17 i'm not very good at getting along with people 01:45:22 but also this person is widely agreed to be annoying 01:45:34 but maybe I'm not as good as others at getting past it 01:46:42 Sorry it didn't work out. :-( 01:47:21 I'm not sure that 'not getting along with people' is the same thing as 'being bad at tolerating toxic people'? 01:48:28 well this is hardly the only example of not getting along with people 01:48:39 i think in general, I hold grudges longer than I should, and don't give people enough slack 01:48:43 (that includes myself of course) 01:48:56 i dunno 01:48:57 oh... 01:48:58 it's fine 01:49:26 it's fine to move on if there was no particular reason to stay 01:49:27 "Wherever we find Americans we will kill them, but we don't have any connection with the Boston Explosions," Ihsan [a Taliban spokesperson] said. 01:49:48 haha 01:50:14 i have the luxury to insist on being happy at work, which most people don't get 01:50:19 and i feel kind of guilty about using it, but oh well 01:50:47 the next thing I do will either be socially useful or will make mad cash that I can give away 01:51:02 actually that's sort of how I got fired, using my (genuine) unhappiness as leverage to get more money so I could give it away 01:51:05 oh well 01:51:15 kmc: you should write this coq thing for me 01:51:18 you will become rich and famous 01:51:37 that's... quite a way to be fired :( 01:51:41 ;-; 01:52:23 i mean, I understand thier position, in an infant company you can't afford to spend infinite resources helping people get along 01:52:25 they did have the money though 01:52:29 kmc: i promise to never fire you btw 01:52:33 lolol 01:52:42 elliott: you're distorting the free market!! 01:52:57 free as in monoids 01:53:00 well coq is french and they're basically communists 01:53:00 so. 01:53:10 i wonder if i'm oversharing... stupid moderately priced scotch whisk[e]y 01:53:21 you are currently at 0.1 millisgeos 01:53:33 i think i've shared more about, say, my sex life than Sgeo has 01:53:37 geez this isn't oversharing, you're allowed to talk about your life and how you feel 01:53:42 kmc, we wish 01:53:49 Fiora, have you MET sgeo 01:53:55 maybe I missed a bunch of lurid sgeo-details 01:53:56 ... I didn't mean sgeo, I meant kmc <.< 01:54:02 Fiora: In a public logged channel? 01:54:04 GUYS I WAS KIDDING 01:54:12 wait, is Sgeo drunk all the time 01:54:15 maybe that explains it 01:54:22 if anything it'd be kind of nice if there was more of this. like. feelings. and stuff. 01:54:37 inb4 Phantom_Hoover diagnores Fiora with more anime-related diseases 01:54:44 engaging feelings module.... [ ok ] 01:54:49 insmod feelings.ko 01:55:21 still hard to read that not as 'amine' 01:55:21 kmc: i think you just won the Making It About Programming prize 01:55:52 kmc just /kmc/ 01:55:54 you're wonderful okay 01:56:01 thanks I think :) 01:56:11 i think irc needs real italics 01:56:13 gpg -ea feelings.ko 01:56:18 you can do bold but have to resort to // for italicisation, truly awful 01:56:30 elliott: um your terminal is the messed up one 01:56:39 kmc: hey do *you* know about cpos 01:56:45 do i know about cops... 01:56:45 oh 01:56:46 cpos 01:56:47 no 01:57:00 kmc is always on the lookout for cops (the joke is drugs) 01:57:14 * kmc has never been arrested 01:57:27 sounds like it's working 01:57:33 How much have I talked about my sex life 01:57:35 Not much, I think 01:57:38 kmc is drinking 220 proof whiskey 01:57:47 I mean, maybe more than other people, but 01:57:50 illegal in massachusetts 01:57:58 shachaf: :O 01:58:37 Sgeo: no one else has talked about it more than you, hth 01:59:14 do we count the kt-at saga in this 01:59:17 (about yours, that is) 02:00:21 shachaf: have I asked you whether you know about cpos yet 02:00:30 Does that even count as sex life? Does it count as sex life if there's no sex, never has been sex, etc? 02:01:13 what's kt-at 02:01:39 god dammit there has to be someone who knows about cpos 02:01:44 copumpkin?!?!?! ais523?! 02:01:44 try #cpos 02:02:18 elliott: i don't know very much about cpos "sry" 02:02:38 elliott: have you considered asking conal 02:02:46 i bet conal knows things?? 02:03:28 kmc, a girk 02:03:29 girl 02:03:30 question has to be world-shattering to ask conal it 02:03:41 conal more like coolnal because he's cool 02:03:53 cool as a cone 02:04:01 what about a cocone 02:04:09 cocoa-coated cocones 02:04:14 kmc: there really is such a thing as a cocone in category theory, hth 02:04:17 i kno 02:04:25 'thats the joke'.xbm 02:04:48 'that'\''s the joke'.xpm 02:04:54 more like cocaine right 02:04:59 Is there a category theorist named caine 02:05:01 the\ joke\ is\ drugs\ again.htm 02:05:09 'that'"'"'s the joke'.xbm 02:05:14 imo the best quoting 02:05:47 $'that\x27s the joke' 02:05:55 Sgeo: imo it counts 02:06:06 the great thing about web development is that there are so many kinds of quoting to choose from 02:06:08 are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the party in Sgeo's pants 02:06:11 each shittier than the rest 02:06:23 there's a party in my pants and invites will be strictly rationed based on Klout score 02:06:26 kmc: it's like russian roulette except there are n-1 bullets 02:06:33 Jafet: yeah 02:07:17 russian roulette with n+1 bullets 02:07:17 wtf churchill won a nobel prize in literature 02:07:19 Discovered that the original SimCity was released as F/OSS (under the name "Micropolis") 02:07:28 Shortly after, discovered that the original SimCity was sort of a shitty game. 02:07:38 russian roulette with ε₀ bullets 02:07:39 not as shitty as the new one amirite 02:07:39 Gregor: what are you doing voiced 02:07:44 (the joke is drugs) 02:07:55 shachaf: Fear not my voice, voiceless peon. 02:08:00 kmc: do you know anything about inaccessible cardinals 02:08:09 shachaf: no ask lexande 02:08:21 lexande never seems to want to talk about them 02:08:23 does lexande know about cpos 02:08:29 maybe because i'm clueless and don't even know the right questions to ask 02:08:30 i guess ε₀ is an inaccessible cardinal? 'not my department' 02:08:30 shachaf, that's what they are when they're picking a new pope right 02:08:33 elliott: quite possibly 02:08:38 Phantom_Hoover: too late for that joke sorry 02:08:45 #popejokes 02:08:45 lexande knows a lot of things 02:08:56 hey remember when lexande was in this channel? 02:08:57 good times 02:08:59 no 02:09:10 `pastelogs lexande 02:09:33 elliott: why did churchill win that 02:09:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31089 02:09:54 because there was no nobel prize in killing nazis 02:10:10 well maybe there should be a nobel copeace prize 02:10:19 `run time true 02:10:20 ​ \ real0m0.001s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s 02:11:05 elliott: I know nothing 02:11:09 kn0thing? 02:11:16 knoþing 02:11:20 copumpkin: so does pumpkin know about cpos then 02:11:21 copumpkin: you know kn0thing? 02:11:26 kn0 02:11:29 here is kno where 02:11:58 elliott: no 02:12:19 elliott: are you sure cpos even exist................ 02:12:22 copumpkin: well you're useless then 02:12:26 I agre 02:12:35 Gregor: do you know about cpos 02:12:37 imo copumpkin is not useless 02:12:44 what am I useful for? 02:12:45 couseful 02:12:51 kmc: :( 02:13:08 copumpkin is one of the best people in this channel 02:13:14 shachaf: :) 02:13:16 according to the cpo of being a good person 02:14:03 copumpkin: does cpoumpking know about cpos 02:15:47 i guess ε₀ is an inaccessible cardinal? 'not my department' <-- no 02:16:06 well I guess it's an ordinal 02:16:08 for one 02:16:20 aim high with your statements, kmc 02:16:30 I am 60% confident ε₀ is two unicode codepoints 02:16:31 no ε₀ isn't inaccessible is it???? 02:16:38 oh that's what oerjan said 02:16:43 elliott: you missed the 20 invisible zero-width non joiners I put in there 02:16:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaccessible_Island 02:17:06 Cartesian closed CPO C³PO 02:18:01 O_O 02:18:10 I didn't even know that part of the atlantic like, had islands at all 02:18:20 which part? 02:18:35 oh copumpkin's link 02:18:44 it's the most remote part 02:18:52 "No land mammals, reptiles, amphibians, butterflies, or snails have recently been found at Inaccessible." 02:19:17 Wanna hear a fun Darwin fact? 02:19:35 On the Beagle they went over to some rock in the middle of the Atlantic and looked all the birds there. No moss or anything. 02:19:42 wow. 02:19:49 Darwin commented that the birds were stupid and he could have killed as many as he wanted with his hammer. 02:20:01 haha 02:21:16 bouvet island also seems to be quite the middle of nowhere 02:21:29 don't know if it's less accessible than Inaccessible 02:21:33 "Both are of a tame and stupid disposition, and are so unaccustomed to visitors, that I could have killed any number of them with my geological hammer." 02:21:47 perhaps Inaccessible Island is where we banish all the developers who don't write accessible software 02:22:03 http://honeymooney.com/world/logbook/images/65-St_Paul_rocks.jpg Kind of shitty as islands go, I think. 02:22:05 I LOVE GUAVA 02:22:30 ocean ridges are kind of amazing 02:22:37 no turn unstoned 02:22:40 is a good song 02:22:48 Sgeo continues to be weird, meanwhile my favourite island is rockall 02:23:01 if only due to the slight phonetic similarity with 'fuck all' 02:23:02 Guava is a library for Java 02:23:12 A lot of things like an option type, a bidirectional map 02:23:21 (The latter of which I just looked for, and found in Guava) 02:23:28 " It is the only location on Atlantic Ocean where the abyssal mantle is exposed above sea level" oh, that's kinda cool. 02:23:41 kmc: i have a mosh feature request 02:23:51 show a random number of asterisks as you type your password 02:24:01 so i don't expect to see no feedback as i type it and instead type it into an untrusted window instead 02:24:09 oh i guess that's ssh's fault 02:24:13 elliott: mosh doesn't have you type your password, it's -- yes. 02:24:22 okay ssh feature request but kmc should implement it 02:24:25 and I'll pay him to 02:24:26 abyssal mantle? 02:24:30 thus solving all our problems 02:24:32 Wait, if mosh doesn't have you type a password, then... huh? 02:24:33 elliott: You could use ssh-agent... 02:24:35 abysmal mantle 02:24:39 Does Mosh require a key? 02:24:50 apparently http://dungeonoverlord.wikia.com/wiki/Abyssal_Mantle 02:24:53 mosh-client and mosh-server use a secret key to communicate, yes. 02:24:55 Fiora: It's an uplift from the mid-atlantic ridge iirc 02:24:57 shachaf: I forget why I stopped using ssh-agent 02:25:04 well, "if i understand correctly", more like 02:25:16 ahh 02:25:18 that makes sense 02:25:30 so like, most of the islands in that area aren't actual uplifts, but like, magma collecting or something? 02:25:42 "Darwin was correct in noting that, unusually, these small islands were not volcanic, but were instead formed by a geologic uplift." 02:26:05 the Abyss of course is what you call the ocean floor 02:26:19 though it's usually like... a plain... 02:26:27 how... how does that even like work @_@ how does the ocean floor end up that high 02:26:36 i thought the mantle was... something else 02:26:48 something hotter 02:27:03 isnt it even higher in the himalaya? 02:27:21 that's continental crust though isn't it? 02:27:25 like it's different or something 02:27:42 Well, the mid-atlantic ridge is the mantle poking up through the gap in the plates, so to speak. 02:27:46 the secretest key 02:27:47 it's all ocean in the end 02:28:00 parts of it was ocean floor too.. don't remember the exact height range 02:28:03 The islets are made out of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite 02:28:07 Mantle rock. 02:28:13 Sgeo: the 'mosh' wrapper script uses ssh to launch a mosh-server on the remote host, then launches a mosh-client locally with the same private key (communicated over ssh) 02:28:13 "serpentization" 02:28:29 p. cool rock imo 02:28:34 this is good because it means Mosh itself doesn't need to do user authentication, it accept all auth methods supported by SSH, and it also doesn't need to do any public-key crypto 02:28:44 "Serpentinite has a significant amount of bound water, hence it contains abundant hydrogen atoms able to slow down neutrons by elastic collision (neutron thermalization process). Because of this serpentinite can be used as dry filler inside steel jackets in some designs of nuclear reactors." O_O 02:28:48 oh, it's not even part of the ridge, it's uh... 02:28:52 "An oceanic core complex (OCC), or megamullion, is a seabed geologic feature that forms a long ridge perpendicular to a mid-ocean ridge." 02:28:53 also you don't need to install mosh as root 02:28:56 you can just run it out of your homedir 02:29:09 Fiora: pre-watered rock. i like it 02:29:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Amotoki_ASPSP_Megamullion_En.jpg ah, here's a geologic map of the area 02:30:12 watery rock is common, thoug 02:30:13 h 02:30:23 Godzilla Mullion, part of the Parece Vela Rift in the Western Pacific Ocean between Japan and the Philippines was discovered in 2001. It is about 150 km long, about as large as the State of Delaware, and is the largest Ocean Core Complex in the world. 02:30:32 iirc at the bottom of the kola borehole there was loads of it 02:30:35 clearly hydrologic geologists are having fun with names 02:30:50 Phantom_Hoover: see, like, "common" -> "at the bottom of the deepest hole ever built" 02:31:03 it's commoner than that! 02:31:10 chalk is hydrated isn't it 02:31:27 maybe not 02:32:40 Bike: well, like, silicate perovskites make up most of the earth, they're super common 02:32:48 but they're only present deeper than 650km XP 02:32:54 there's also stuff like solid solutions which are interesting 02:33:00 so, common, but hard to get 02:33:09 Fiora: i like how the article goes from inuit carvings to reactor shielding 02:33:17 also diamond anvil cells are so cool 02:33:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Serpentinite_Walrus_2012.jpg frankly this is more impressive. it's a very impressive walrus 02:33:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:33:45 wow this hard cider tastes like caramel 02:33:46 kmc: related: do you know of a good way to use/remember/whatever secure passwords 02:33:53 it's cool bordering on disturbing 02:34:00 elliott: secure in what sense 02:34:15 I should change my password scheme. 02:34:16 what the heck, plants grow in dirt made of serpentine rocks 02:34:40 "Unlike most ecosystems, in serpentine barrens there is less plant growth closer to a stream, due to toxic minerals in the water." 02:34:48 buh 02:34:49 kmc: good question 02:34:55 life finds a way Bike 02:34:56 kmc: I believe I am paying you to know the answer better than I do 02:35:05 elliott: plz send bitcoins 02:35:18 kmc: okay $$$$$$ 02:35:19 now shoot 02:35:27 That's like the spookiest ecology thing I've heard of since devil's gardens. 02:35:31 i'm already 60 days past payment due on this weapons grade plutonium 02:35:42 Bike: are those gardens run by the devil himself 02:35:50 kmc: ok but seriously what do you mean by secure in what sense 02:35:59 Bike: what about the fungus growing inside the Chernobyl plant that metabolizes gamma radiation 02:36:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus 02:36:12 They're stands of trees where a particular kind of ant goes around killing all plants that aren't one particular species of tree the ant lives in. 02:36:13 life finds a way 02:36:36 Also they're in the Amazon, which is kind of really diverse, so it must be spooky. 02:36:41 black molds and revelations 02:37:06 those things are so amazing *_* 02:37:09 duuuude I'm going to have some fresh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hericium_erinaceus to eat soon 02:37:22 life will find a way... to kill (this summer) 02:37:27 the story about how they got the first photos of the "elephant's foot" in the reactor sarcophagus is terrifying though 02:37:46 you know what else is terrifying? "reactor sarcophagus" 02:37:47 thmc 02:38:00 just like. radiation so strong they had to take pictures of it -using a robot- around a mirror or something 02:38:16 because like, the radiation would knock out the robot 02:38:27 poor robot 02:38:40 ok so what is this about elephants 02:38:48 which wikipedia link to i have to click to understand what Fiora is going on about 02:38:58 http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo475gICWF1qcjl1to1_1280.gif 02:39:10 What the fuck is that. 02:39:13 en.wikipedia.org.tumblr.com 02:39:39 http://duckduckgrayduck.com/2012/06/06/if-you-were-to-look-at-this-in-person-you-would-die-instantly/ 02:39:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Podzol.jpg "hm, how can i spice up this photograph of dirt" 02:39:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)#Chernobyl_accident 02:39:55 "They had to treat this blob like a real Medusa. The original wheeled camera they sent up to take pictures was destroyed by the radiation. " 02:39:57 lava flows 02:40:00 guh 02:40:07 "Corium" aka "bulk material made from a melted reactor core" 02:40:08 it's "corium" 02:40:08 o_O 02:40:11 yeah @_@ 02:40:22 Fiora: reminds me of that american accident where the reactor jumped ten feet or whatever 02:41:01 or rather the corpse recovery operation 02:41:04 they tried to take a sample of the corium in chernobyl but they couldn't find a way to chip a piece off 02:41:08 so they shot it with an ak-47 02:41:16 hahaha \rainbow{RUSSIA} 02:42:04 "lava-like fuel containing material" i think this is actually a more terrifying name than "corium" 02:42:37 * kmc is reminded that he lives a few blocks from one of the only remaining HEU reactors in the US 02:42:43 "Corium (and also highly irradiated uranium fuel) has an interesting property: spontaneous dust generation, or spontaneous self-sputtering of the surface. The alpha decay of isotopes inside the glassy structure causes Coulomb explosions, degrading the material and releasing submicron particles from its surface." 02:42:48 @_______@ 02:42:48 Unknown command, try @list 02:42:49 it literally makes its own dust 02:42:50 D: 02:43:03 how....... did they even discover that 02:43:24 so wait how did they get the mirror there 02:43:30 "The corium undergoes degradation. The Elephant's Foot, hard and strong shortly after its formation, is now cracked enough that a glue-treated wad easily separated its top 1–2 centimeter layer." 02:43:30 Robot. 02:43:31 is it really like you can get within a hallway of it 02:43:34 okay good 02:43:37 i was worried it was like 02:43:39 I imagine they could like 02:43:40 put it on the end of a pole 02:43:43 turn the corner AUUUUUUAUAUAUAUAAUUGH [drops dead] 02:43:57 What I'm wondering is whether the mirror reflects radiation 02:43:58 the may attached it to the robot 02:43:59 like how you put in those really high ceiling lights 02:44:07 I think reflecting gamma and x-ray is kind of tricky 02:44:19 hey how is fukushima these days 02:44:22 like, if you could reflect them that easily you wouldn't need shielding...? 02:44:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics 02:44:41 there it is 02:44:59 but how is radiation reflected with mirrors? does it only work for gamma-ray`? 02:45:28 Fiora: see that just makes me imagine a reactor made out of mirrors and then when it fails the mirrors all break apart and all the radiation shoots out everywhere and um 02:46:00 I think that's called a bomb 02:47:42 "10,000 rem per hour" @___@ 02:48:22 isn't that enough to literally vaporize you 02:48:41 .... oh nevermind that was like. 20 years later. oh gosh it must have been insane right after 02:48:43 It consists of nuclear fuel, fission products, control rods, structural materials from the affected parts of the reactor, products of their chemical reaction with air, water and steam, and, in case the reactor vessel is breached, molten concrete from the floor of the reactor room. 02:48:53 the most hardcore material 02:50:51 30,000 rem per hour @___@ 02:51:10 all melted together with some potato and onion 02:51:18 XD 02:52:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chernobyl_lava_flow.jpg 02:52:36 nuclear cooking! 02:52:46 my drunk, radioactive kitchen 02:52:57 just add a little bit of U-238, some Pu-239... maybe a bit of U-234 and Sr-90... 02:53:01 kmc's finest yellow cake 02:53:04 and a daassshhh of Americium 02:53:23 well, it's nice to know humans can just make lava 02:53:57 "just" 02:54:05 all we have to do is build a gigantic fucking nuclear reactor and have it blow up 02:54:29 http://www.amazon.com/Duncan-Hines-Classic-Yellow-Layer/dp/B0002IMS5K 02:54:37 prank idea: do that somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Antarctica, wait for people to find it 02:54:48 read the conspiracy theories and laugh 02:54:51 "Obviously, the price is right -- so that's 1 star right there. And the convenience of super-saver delivery spares me I don't even know how many trips to Niger. That's another star. However, try as I might, I could never get this stuff to enrich to fully weapons-grade." 02:55:05 -!- mnoqy has joined. 02:55:56 elliott: there are a lot of radioisotope plants in the arctic circle 02:56:19 right but have any of them blown up 02:56:28 mnoqy: hi mnoqy 02:56:37 hi shachdf 02:56:40 THey don't really "blow up", but people rob materials from them sometimes 02:56:51 good business decision, robbing radioactive rock 02:57:58 oh, the half-lives are only like ninety years though, not enough for a good conspiracy 02:58:30 Bike: you could, like, intentionally enrich some materials so it looked like they had been decaying for 6000 years or something? 02:58:43 and then like, hide it in an egyptian tomb 02:58:58 haha 02:59:09 well there are those natural reactors near the african fault aren't there 02:59:17 right I'm thinking like you build a massive eerie nuclear reactor complex 02:59:21 Oklooooooo 02:59:22 antarctica is pretty big so this should be easy 02:59:26 that thing is kind of amazing 02:59:28 maybe make it look as old as possible 02:59:30 This is best done with martian rock samples. 02:59:36 put some scary warnings (maybe in languages that don't exist???) 02:59:41 with awful safety practices 02:59:55 then you just set the whole meltdown off and make it look as if there was a hasty evacuation and lots of panic and stuff 02:59:59 "if the spirits begin to eat, insert these rods" 02:59:59 and then you wait 03:00:03 haha 03:00:11 that was supposed to be "heat" but that works too 03:00:27 basically what I'm saying is 03:00:34 get to work on producing real-life SCPs please?? 03:01:03 sounds awesome 03:02:33 you've seen the work about making warnings for nuclear waste storage facilities 03:02:40 that will still be understood 10,000 years from now 03:03:05 yes 03:03:06 I love that shit 03:03:09 I love it a lot 03:03:16 if there was a fanclub for it I would join it 03:03:25 i bet they have pictures of humans on them 03:03:27 speciests 03:03:29 I would also consider: using some of the demonstration images as album covers 03:03:33 i think one of my favorite ancient ones is the weather drones 03:03:33 where it starts by describing how these things that look like fairly normal 1980s aerial survey drones go around the earth broadcasting signals 03:03:33 and then mentions that they were first found in the 1910s 03:03:54 link 03:04:05 what i DEFINITELY NEED TO BE DOING is reading scps at 4 am 03:04:20 Bike: i liked the one with the chord that would destroy the world despite it not making any sense 03:04:25 unfortunately it's pretty fucking hard to predict language and cultural change, as evidenced by oracle bone script 03:04:29 elliott: haha yeah 03:04:30 the one where they extincted a whale species because it made one of the frequencies 03:04:38 they were probably jerks anyway 03:04:53 -!- ssue_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:05:04 'course there's that other SCP where they commit actual genocide so they don't give a damn aboutu ethics 03:05:11 im not really "into" scps but hsould i be? 03:05:14 -!- [mbm] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:05:32 mnoqy: imo some of them are pretty great 03:05:42 and others are good, but then there are all the mediocre-to-bad ones 03:05:57 a few of the joke ones are really wonderful too 03:06:11 i liked a few of the joke ones but i've forgotten them 03:06:20 mnoqy: have you seen sam hughes' one. that one is "well-liked" 03:06:31 uhh idk 03:06:33 which sam hughes are we talkin' here 03:06:33 -!- [mbm] has joined. 03:06:38 ive read like one ever and i forget what it was even about 03:06:39 http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1638-j 03:06:46 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-055 03:06:52 sam hughes as in qntm.org sam hughes 03:06:52 I love the ones that are really meta, like, the SCP itself is written in a style related to the SCP 03:06:53 i bet it's the evil one "ie qntm" 03:07:26 scp-055 isn't really creepy tho, but it has what we in the biz call a "good concept" 03:07:46 also the vending machine that serves random things. 03:07:50 from like, all kinds of parallel realities 03:08:15 five (5) by five (5) by two point five (2.5) 03:08:16 so far so good 03:08:40 mnoqy: you can't break the style!! 03:09:15 the best ones all work by the tedious writing style and illogical ordering (whereby you get the containment procedures before learning what it is) make the nature of it dawn on you slowly 03:09:34 oh haha, 55 was qntm? 03:09:39 yeah 03:10:25 i like the way the description is unsigned. 03:10:56 what is SCP 03:11:08 shachaf: its a disease 03:11:10 or a drug? 03:11:14 it's either like HIV or LSD 03:11:32 or both? 03:11:40 you decide 03:12:07 mnoqy: i should keep links to good scps so i can link people who ask about them...... unfortunately i haven't done so 03:12:26 55 is one of my favourites 03:12:30 enumerate every scp 03:12:43 then just go through them all 03:12:55 maybe use "rating" as a huerusitc 03:12:58 to order yr search' 03:13:21 and stop looking after they consistently turn to 100%mediocre, then start again at the bottom for the crap ones and work back up 03:13:26 i'm not even sure you can order them by rating 03:13:31 hi mnoqy: hi 03:13:39 if you list them all you can write down their ratings and then order them 03:14:16 imo a plan 03:14:58 maaaybe............ 03:15:08 it's quarter tempting b/c i'd get to read all the good ones 03:15:22 ¾ not tempting because i'd have to read a lot 03:15:30 imo you do it 03:16:09 ¾ is a lot of ¼s 03:17:41 -!- pdurbin has joined. 03:20:00 kmc: have you seen the film "the court jester" 03:20:05 n 03:20:10 o 03:20:20 should i 03:20:35 if you like "that kind of thing" 03:20:37 i enjoyed it 03:22:17 people who like this sort of thing will find it just the sort of thing they like? 03:22:35 Precisely. 03:23:14 hey i heard a good definition the other day 03:23:22 trust: the condition necessary for betrayal 03:24:08 makes sense 03:24:36 :( 03:25:22 ;-; 03:26:16 the vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true 03:26:31 copumpkin knows ""what's up"" 03:27:44 (Well, except that the vessel with the pestle holds the pellet with the poison. The flagon with the dragon holds the brew that is true.) 03:28:17 DAMN 03:29:09 (Unless I mixed it up.) 03:29:11 I just drank from the vessl with the pestle, thinking it held the brew that is true. I should have taken from the flagon with the dragon I guess, and now I shall meet my end from the pellet with the poison :( it was nice knowing you 03:29:42 `WeLcOmE pdurbin 03:29:45 PdUrBiN: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 03:30:46 only one way to find out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84 03:30:51 i'm sorry but pellet does not rhyme with poison hth 03:31:10 oerjan: it's not meant to rhyme just to alliterate hth 03:31:23 hi pdurbin 03:31:30 the others rhyme hth 03:31:36 where does the chalice from the palace fit in? 03:31:43 it's broken hth 03:31:55 oerjan: well that one doesn't hth 03:32:48 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:33:00 I don't think you need the disclaimer about irc.dal.net http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23esoteric&net=DALnet 03:33:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zIWcCvQNqQ 03:34:18 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:34:53 oh there's angela 03:34:55 forgot she was in this 03:36:25 copumpkin: Oh, I got it wrong. 03:36:35 Somehow they moved the poison. 03:36:45 I hate it when they do that 03:40:00 did you read that one story yet 03:40:05 no 03:40:07 i should probably stop bugging you about it 03:43:29 nah 03:43:33 I'll get to it eventually 03:43:40 but not if you stop bugging me about it 03:43:45 :P 03:43:55 but yeah, it is a tab that's still open 03:44:08 and I usually get to those eventually cause I get sick of having a bunch of them open 03:44:25 I get sick of having a bunch of tabs open so I bookmark them all and then close them. 03:44:28 And then I never look at them again. 03:44:30 hth 03:44:35 lol 03:44:46 (Sometimes I do get to them.) 03:45:05 Do you have a tab open for my five dola? 03:45:28 the joke is "tab" 03:45:54 lol 03:45:54 `welcome 03:45:56 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:46:41 oerjan: come on now you're stretching it 03:47:43 `run sed -i 's/.$/ Except that's mostly dead, alas.\1/' wisdom/welcome 03:47:44 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 03:48:16 `run sed -i 's/.$/ Except that'\''s mostly dead, alas.\1/' wisdom/welcome 03:48:18 sed: -e expression #1, char 41: invalid reference \1 on `s' command's RHS 03:48:24 oops 03:48:26 oerjan: did you go and visit it 03:48:35 elliott: um no? 03:48:44 never been there. 03:48:56 um oerjan 03:48:59 you can't change `welcome 03:49:17 oerjan: then how do you know it's dead 03:49:25 true mysterys of the universe 03:49:26 elliott: doesthiswork's link? 03:49:39 o 03:50:59 kmc: my neighbor from down the street talked about how in the time he's lived there two people have been shot in front of where he lives 03:51:06 and someone tried to break in with a crowbar 03:51:13 (while he was at home) 03:51:59 conclusion, don't live in epa?? 03:54:01 D: 03:54:08 why did the people get shot 03:56:29 -!- ssue_ has joined. 03:59:09 -!- jix has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:00:01 -!- iamcal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:01:02 -!- ssue_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:01:04 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 04:02:33 -!- jix has joined. 04:02:34 -!- ssue_ has joined. 04:11:21 yessssss the Pleurotus pulmonarius culture is pinning 04:11:48 phoenix oyster mushroom 04:12:39 ITT: kmc likes psychotropic shrooms. 04:13:07 "phoenix oyster"? 04:13:19 elliott: what do you think of idris? 04:13:40 coppro: promising 04:13:47 not ready from general-purpose programming from my experiments 04:13:50 especially error messages are bad 04:14:05 work making it better is time well-spent 04:14:23 I wasn't considering making it work better 04:14:26 got enough distractions already 04:15:12 it's not psychotropic... 04:15:19 it's a tasty edible mushroom 04:15:39 <- makes shit up 04:15:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleurotus_pulmonarius 04:17:07 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:17:23 sorry kmc 04:17:26 everything to do with you is drugs 04:17:40 :'( im typecast 04:17:44 Everyone knows that's the only reason you'd know the word "bitcoins". 04:17:48 (int) kmc 04:19:19 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Pleurotus_pulmonarius_LC0228.jpg 04:21:06 saprotroph 04:21:25 I read "sapphotroph", was mortified 04:21:35 c.c 04:22:34 @wn sapphotroph 04:22:34 No match for "sapphotroph". 04:22:44 would mean "lesbian-eater" 04:22:50 as opposed to "death eater" which is totally fine obv. 04:24:53 itym "lesbian food" hth 04:25:25 w/e 04:27:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Mycomorphbox 04:35:44 elliott: is it accurate to all idris agda less the suck 04:37:13 kmc: i don't know 04:38:08 coppro: if you want to be oversimplifying and inaccurate, sure. (like all definitions like that are.) 04:38:13 agda is far more usable today than idris 04:38:18 and the two languages have different goals 04:38:24 reinterpret_cast(kmc) 04:38:24 I don't see them as in competition at all 04:38:29 ok 04:42:30 why have i been reinterpreted 04:42:48 because you're a c++ programmer hth 04:43:01 quite a character!! or something 04:44:02 i have been known to program in C++ "from time to time" 04:44:26 Bike: twist: kmc isn't a character, just an 8-bit value 04:44:33 or a pointer to one 04:44:36 signed or unsigned? 04:44:40 yes 04:48:06 welp 04:48:55 kmc: can I pay you to do cpos yet 04:48:58 no 04:49:25 why are you making this difficult kmc 04:49:54 there's no need! 04:50:57 balls 04:51:16 BALLS OF STEEL 04:51:40 balls of radius 1 04:51:51 ok Bike. it's your turn 04:51:53 you gotta do the cpos 04:52:54 what's a cpos again 04:53:31 complete partial orders 04:53:39 yes 04:54:16 Set is such a wonderful math game 04:54:24 it's all about adding up vectors in ZZ_3^4! 04:54:52 so what do i gotta do 04:55:22 tell me what the cpo of cpos is (does it exist?? I hear it does) and fix the coq problem that stops me defining it 04:56:07 Bike: "use ur brain" how can they be complete and partial at the same time 04:56:26 elliott: do you have any reason to believe that it's unique? 04:56:29 Bike doesn't have a brain. he's a bicycle 04:56:31 oh dear how many people is elliott bugging about this 04:56:35 mnoqy: fucking everyone 04:56:47 mnoqy: he even bugged me......................................... 04:57:02 Bike: well you can use a trivial relation always 04:57:04 have you tried the mathematicians who actually "do" order theory 04:57:04 but i mean a sensible one 04:57:10 mnoqy: you don't understand 04:57:13 the more someone knows 04:57:17 the more embarrassing it is to ask questions 04:57:21 especially simple ones! 04:57:27 would you ask a number theorist what 2 + 2 is 04:57:33 Sure. 04:57:34 i would 04:57:40 i ask everyone that 04:57:53 probably a number theorist would understand most why i ask 04:57:54 hmm 04:58:03 i have an idea 04:58:06 If you know someone who could answer this more effectively than me i'd be happy to ask a stupid-ass question for you. 04:58:18 who here has actually played Set? 04:58:18 call up dana scott 04:58:33 why do you want this anyway 04:58:43 ask ##math (i've heard things about ##math (not really actually.....)) 04:58:47 hey i was in the same room as dana scott once 04:58:54 i've heard of dana scott 04:59:00 "does that make me famous" 04:59:05 i may or may not have read a thing by dana scott 04:59:10 Bike: denotational semantics 04:59:22 why do you need it for denotational semantics 04:59:27 I'm pretty sure Dana Scott is smart enough that asking him any question whatsoever would be embarrassing 04:59:27 itym you need it for goofin around 04:59:35 mnoqy: I want the denotational semantics for goofing around 04:59:43 good point 04:59:44 tsh denotational semantics 04:59:56 whatever lemme ask the actual math student i fuckin know 05:00:09 how you people keep up with this crap is beyond me. don't you ever want to study monks instead 05:00:11 uh oh this could get ugly 05:00:21 how ugly 05:00:22 Bike: "use ur brain" how can they be complete and partial at the same time <-- woah dude 05:01:10 Bike: if you start the question with "this asshole on IRC" I'll fuck you up 05:01:38 ?? why would i do that, you're not an asshole 05:01:38 why would i do that, you're not an asshole 05:01:45 I keep forgetting about that. 05:01:46 um do you know elliott 05:02:05 wait Bike studies monks? 05:02:14 doesn't everyone? 05:02:19 I wish. 05:02:26 Bike: pretty sure I am an asshole :( 05:02:33 That was just an example. There are lots of interesting things. 05:02:40 Sometimes I get a bit frustrated at how made up math gets. 05:02:42 cpos are interesting! 05:02:46 gosh have you ever like 05:02:49 sat back and 05:02:51 though about 05:02:52 monks, not m(on|no)qys 05:02:57 i mean really thought about 05:03:00 what assholes really are 05:03:01 fingers 05:03:02 mnoqy: yes 05:03:04 oh 05:03:08 i mean no 05:03:10 they call 'em assholes but i've never seen 'em ass 05:03:14 Bike: i laughed 05:03:48 just one of many valuable services i provide 05:04:05 mnoqy: is there some deeper meaning i'm missing 05:04:09 i m never frustrated about made up math but im frustrated about how much math i dont know 05:04:11 imo assholes are pretty simple 05:04:18 that's also frustrating 05:04:31 Bike: btw don't you think this is the wrong channel to dislike things for being made up 05:04:33 elliott: but referring to things as assholes??? or even whole asses 05:04:43 ?? hm (does (this (remove (parentheses) even) without) commands) 05:04:43 how can a person be an asshole 05:04:43 Possibly, possibly. 05:04:44 hm (does (this (remove (parentheses) even) without) commands) 05:04:44 mnoqy: well assholes say a lot of poop 05:04:48 neep 05:04:51 im just saying 05:05:02 It's also the wrong attitude to be a math major in and yet i persist 05:05:12 mnoqy: did i ever tell you about the man who taught his asshole to talk 05:05:19 that sounds bad 05:05:32 Bike: wait are you actually am ath major 05:05:36 i thought you were a fucking biologist 05:05:48 computational neuroscience, it's a double major 05:05:54 also i'm not even actually in school atm fuck my life 05:06:52 made up things are inherently better anyway 05:06:54 elliott: How about, use inclusion as a partial order. 05:07:04 that's complete probably? 05:07:05 follows from theorem 1 (everything that exists is shit) 05:07:11 and theorem 2 (you can make up things that don't exist) 05:07:14 shit is pretty interesting 05:07:18 Bike: okay so what's sup 05:07:23 maybe that's the difference between you and me 05:07:59 shit is shit "reflexivity, man" 05:08:04 shit is also the shit, i hear 05:08:13 the limit supremum? ummmm i guess you need the sets to have... things... 05:08:32 they're not set sthey're cpos 05:08:50 on sets. 05:09:06 mnoqy: hi do you provide "mnoqy wisdom" 05:09:10 and/or "monqy wisdom" 05:09:13 elliott: oh oops you need that one axiom........ 05:09:16 and if so which one or both 05:09:23 inf might be intersection, if you are using inclusion 05:09:26 you know. the one 05:09:36 Bike: what, choice? 05:09:38 dunno if that gives a cpo 05:09:40 «Suppose a partially ordered set P has the property that every chain (i.e. totally ordered subset) has an upper bound in P. Then the set P contains at least one maximal element.» 05:09:47 wow i'm actually really bad at this gosh 05:09:48 but yes. 05:09:52 okay but that's not what i'm asking about 05:09:55 that's just talking about plain old cpos 05:09:56 why do you need axiom of choice 05:10:23 i mean what is sup c (a CPO) where c is a monotonic function N -> CPO (i.e. a chain) 05:10:30 can i have the axiom of choice 05:10:58 Bike: is it customary in your parts to assume the axiom of choice or to assume zorn's lemma or 05:11:06 kinda yeah 05:11:13 i mean also 05:11:20 which do you assume and which do you take as a consequence 05:11:27 "important decisions" 05:11:29 elliott: well that's a chain with upper bounds so it should have a maximum by zorn's 05:11:38 just not... what it actually is 05:11:47 elliott: _if_ the intersection of a family of cpo's on a set is a cpo on that set then that's probably enough for the whole structure to be a cpo. 05:11:52 one time a class i was in assumed zorn's lemma directly!!! 05:11:57 oh no 05:12:23 22:11:29 elliott: well that's a chain with upper bounds so it should have a maximum by zorn's 05:12:26 22:11:38 just not... what it actually is 05:12:28 Bike: ???? ????? 05:12:39 :( 05:12:57 btw what sort of math do you do. math is cool 05:13:08 The kind where I flail around on IRC 05:13:25 Bike: have you proved the chain has an upper bound 05:13:28 that's sort of the thing 05:13:29 that you have to prove 05:13:34 (and how have you gotten through life without needing to use zorn's lemma for a thing??? gosh) 05:13:34 to show cpos form a cpo 05:13:48 mnoqy: imo the axiom of determinacy 05:13:48 not just any upper bound but a least upper bound 05:13:52 mnoqy: i've never used zorn's lemma 05:13:53 :/ 05:14:05 elliott: maybe you've never gotten through life 05:14:14 it's true 05:14:17 should I just give up now 05:14:19 i've had to use zorn's lemma.....3...4???times 05:14:27 never used aoc directly....... 05:14:29 hey who here ``believes in'' the axiom of determinacy 05:14:31 * shachaf 05:14:36 what's the axiom of determinacy 05:14:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_determinacy 05:14:52 it's that thing that contradicts with choice right 05:14:59 Yes. 05:15:09 i have a hard time "believing in" "believing in" math things 05:15:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:15:32 that's why i put it in quotes 05:15:53 i believe in maths things 05:15:55 it's like believing in math things 05:15:56 but right 05:16:03 i "believe" in godel's completeness theorem, which means if it's consistent, it exists. 05:16:09 mnoqy: you don't believe that people believe in things? 05:16:12 i believe in ørjan 05:16:26 ørjan-gutan 05:16:36 elliott: the upper bound of each chain can just be the union of everything in the chain, like oerjan probably said 05:17:00 shachaf: i like how this is talking about games and shit that's good 05:17:01 oh oerjan said something... it was being drowned out by bicycles 05:17:08 Bike_: i didn't. it's intersection that tends to work nicely with po's defined by inclusion, not union 05:17:11 i was using inverse inclusion i think 05:17:11 fu u man 05:17:18 Bike_: are you sure you know what youre trying to do.. 05:17:19 Bike_: um it's just talking about games 05:17:25 mnoqy: i'm pretty sure i don't 05:17:26 Bike_: which article are you reading 05:17:40 woe 05:17:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:18:17 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:18:17 Bike_: are you sure you're a maths major 05:18:20 a major maths 05:18:25 no i'm really not 05:18:29 oh...... 05:18:32 wow you lied to me??? 05:18:37 elliott: ummmm there's no such thing as "a maths major" 05:18:45 "major" is "american splelling" 05:18:58 majour looks....wrong 05:18:59 elliott: I'm sorry, my majour is not maths 05:19:10 *wroung 05:19:13 no i mean i'm not sure 05:19:16 because i'm incompetent 05:19:22 oh 05:19:27 *ellioutt 05:19:48 Bike: it's ok. i believe in u 05:20:03 you'll achieve great things!! for a bicycle anyway 05:20:08 racist 05:20:14 what's a great thing for a bicycle to achieve 05:20:22 not falling over? 05:20:27 ease of how u get on it 05:20:29 wow that's p. great 05:20:30 not being steald 05:20:36 not sure Bike can manage that 05:20:39 but seriously if you just have cpo1 <= cpo2 iff cpo1 isin cpo2 then you could just take the union 05:20:42 :-( 05:20:44 Bike: have you ever been steald 05:21:00 no 05:21:03 Bike: but then you need a cpo structure on that union 05:21:06 Bike: is the thing 05:21:09 right that 05:21:19 you need to say: what's the bottom; what's the ordering; what's the sup 05:21:19 hm 05:21:34 pff u dont need a bottom 05:21:41 well you can steal a bottom 05:21:45 yes 05:21:45 but you still need to say what it is 05:21:46 how about set inclusion where the greater cpo's order is an extension of the lesser's 05:21:52 hm these sups are supposed to be directed, it seems. then union is probably fine? 05:22:04 i'm doing \omega-cpos 05:22:05 fwiw 05:22:21 U+03C8 05:22:23 hth 05:22:28 um 05:22:30 U+03C9 05:22:36 aha 05:22:43 "the idea" is that eventually I'll be able to do sup (iter (D |-> D -> D) _|_) where iter takes (a -> a) and a to (N -> a) 05:22:52 elliott: What are you doing, anyway? 05:22:54 that's weaker than dcpo... 05:22:56 and get the D ~= D -> D domain and hence I'll have a domain for the untyped lambda calculus??? 05:22:56 great syntax 05:23:00 oerjan: yes 05:23:02 Oh. 05:23:22 elliott: untypedlambdacalculus.com 05:23:33 untypedlambdacalcul.us 05:23:39 elliott: what's the actual problem here? 05:23:51 coppro: elliott wants the D ~= D -> D domain 05:24:07 for the lambda calc's 05:24:11 I have no context 05:24:20 ah ;-) 05:24:30 mnoqy: [; 05:24:35 elliott is writing a denotatonal semantics for the lambda calc's 05:24:35 and I'm too lazy to scrollback 05:24:42 (in coq!!!!!) 05:24:45 in coq 05:25:10 imo ask conal 05:25:19 conal knows everything about denotatinal semantics?? 05:25:33 have you ever even met conal 05:25:50 it's great 05:26:10 what's nal like 05:26:28 cogreat ;-O 05:26:32 hey how about this axiom:::::: 05:26:33 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_uniformization 05:26:49 what's a polish space 05:26:58 elliott: do you mean you want a complete partial order of all cpos of a given set? 05:27:12 Quasistrategies and quasideterminacy 05:27:12 This section is still to be written 05:27:14 [edit] 05:27:37 a cpo of all cpos 05:27:44 elliott: it's too big 05:27:55 i'm not even working in set theory 05:28:04 well in principle 05:28:09 you could just do it lexicographically 05:28:28 are you sure you're even capable of helping at all 05:28:33 mnoqy: yes 05:28:36 ok 05:28:52 elliott: better listen to this guy he knows what he's doing 05:29:25 assuming you have some sensible way to represent it (higher-order classes or something) 05:31:13 then your class of cpos is all pairs of the form (S, R) where S is a set and R is a relation defining the cpo. Since R \subset S^2, you can represent R as an element of 2^{|S|^2}. 05:31:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:31:49 but where's the cpo structure 05:32:04 well, it depends what you're going for 05:32:28 imo elliott should repeat his problem 05:32:48 imo mnoqy should share some wisdom with us 05:32:54 like, do you have a cpo on sets defined? 05:32:58 shachaf: ok ok if you really want it 05:33:10 shachaf: - mnoqy wisdom 05:33:15 thx 05:33:17 `? mnoqy 05:33:19 mnoqy used to be monqy before the earthquake. 05:33:23 `? monqy 05:33:25 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 05:33:25 well the actual sets themselves don't seem to factor into this... assuming <= gives inclusion or such 05:33:35 but that's not complete 05:33:51 elliott: the joke is that you throw away their cpo structure and toss on a new one by inclusion or what-not 05:34:03 if you're working over ordinals, then you could do something sensible 05:34:04 elliott: since your problem doesn't matter 05:34:06 -!- Bike has joined. 05:34:58 but I don't see an obvious "correct" one 05:35:26 mnoqy: what do you mean 05:35:36 for cpos over the some fixed set, you could do refinement/relaxation and both are complete I believe 05:35:40 mnoqy: are you ever going to be monqy again 05:35:47 shachaf: whenever elliott sends monqy messages 05:36:09 @ask monqy hi we love you monqy we miss you at school 05:36:09 Consider it noted. 05:36:10 (since you can just view them as subsets of S^2 and then the empty set and the powerset are minima and maxima 05:36:28 and obviously the ordinals have a cpo built in. 05:36:50 seriously i think you should read what elliott said about his actual issue 05:37:23 too lazy to scrollback "not an excuse to go on an irrelevant tangent (doesn't that take more effort anyway?)" 05:37:46 < elliott> tell me what the cpo of cpos is (does it exist?? I hear it does) and fix the coq problem that stops me defining it 05:37:50 help is a cotangent a dual of a tangent 05:37:55 why does cotangent exist 05:37:59 yes, obviously 05:38:10 elliott: so yeah, if I'm not being helpful, please explain the problem better 05:38:14 coppro: how about the part where he says what he's actualyl trying to do 05:38:22 coppro: since he's said it!!! let's make it a game and find it 05:38:22 where is that? 05:38:43 well i'm particularly interested in what the cpo structure of the sup of a cpo \omega-chain looks like..... given inclusion or something as the ordering on cpos itself 05:39:09 shachaf: cotangent only exist in america, as do secant and cosecant. hth. 05:39:09 elliott: the problem is you can't really define inclusion on cpos on unrelated sets unless you can relate those two sets 05:39:10 it starts with "the idea" and ends with "lambda calculus" 05:39:13 *exists 05:39:22 oerjan: you know i suspected that it was american 05:39:32 so you might as well assume you're working over ordinals I think? 05:39:33 oerjan: i never completely understood those functions 05:39:36 coppro: if one cpo is included in another then clearly you have a subset... 05:39:40 oerjan: why do they exist in america 05:39:47 (or a partial mapping function or whatever) 05:39:53 er non-paess 05:39:54 elliott: oh, I see 05:39:56 *partial I guess 05:39:56 "you know wht I mean" 05:39:58 (disclaimer: i don't really know it's only american, but it's definitely not common in norway) 05:39:59 yeah, got it 05:40:33 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:40:40 so I suppose you could define the ordering as existence of a monotonic mapping one way or such 05:41:00 gotta memorize those versine tables 05:41:28 elliott: sorry, when you say inclusion, is {a, b} with the trivial ordering included in {a, b} with a <= b or the other way around? 05:42:49 @tell Fiora Apparently Meridian Lossless (and that Monkey thing, at least) are not strictly speaking LPC-based, because they have an IIR (not FIR) predictor block there. (And also there seems to be more variation when it comes to how they take advantage of inter-channel correlations between the algorithms.) 05:42:49 Consider it noted. 05:43:03 I'm not actually sure which way the ordering goes 05:43:15 ok, I'll assume it's as I described 05:43:19 well it's the way where the sup of that chain gives you the thing you want 05:43:28 then isn't the supremum the union of the sets plus the transitive closure of the union of the orderings? 05:43:29 I suppose it depends on whether _|_ the cpo's set is the empty set or (an arbitrary) singleton set 05:43:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:43:50 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 05:44:10 s/ordering/relation/ 05:44:20 coppro: what's the sup operation in the cpo that results in? 05:44:35 elliott: does not parse 05:44:48 well, sup goes from an \omega-chain of cpos to a cpo 05:44:55 oh ok 05:44:57 so for sup's result to be a cpo, it has to have a sup operation defined 05:45:10 oh fuck I see 05:45:17 man, I missed the problem 05:45:21 sorry 05:45:26 uh, I'll need to think about this one 05:46:06 heh :P 05:46:18 I'll start with definitions; (S_1, R_1) <= (S_2, R_2) if S_1 \subseteq S_2 and R_1 \subseteq R_2, right? 05:46:28 (just to formalize what I think we have) 05:47:11 right, sure 05:47:19 you might want to include the sup function in that definition 05:47:23 although I guess it's unique 05:47:36 up to blah blah 05:47:57 well the sup function is built in to each of (S_1, R_1) and (S_2, R_2) 05:48:15 I'm assuming R_1 and R_2 to be cpos here 05:48:26 ok well there's the obvious cop-out 05:48:30 sure 05:49:04 you can just define the sup of an \omega-chain to be \bigcup_{i=1}^\infty S_i \cup {x} for some x \notin S_i for all i \in \omega 05:49:15 and make x be a maximal element 05:49:27 then it's always the supremum 05:49:58 err, does that satisfy the least upper bound part? I don't get it 05:50:42 define the relation in the supremum to be \bigcup_{i=1}^\infty R_i \cup { (s, x) : s \in S_i for some i \in \omega } 05:50:52 oh, and (x, x) 05:51:16 because then for any \omega-chain inside S, x will always be greater than every element 05:51:41 (and you can pick x uniquely by making it the least ordinal not in any of the sets or something) 05:52:06 but generally I think you need some cop-out like that 05:52:46 hmmmmmm 05:52:55 hang on, I'm going to mathbin a pathological case 05:57:51 http://mathbin.net/163618 05:58:06 so clearly inclusion is not the ordering 05:58:13 also ignore what I said about defining sup differently 05:58:14 I am tired 05:58:19 me too 05:58:45 ah, typo 05:58:50 the ^n should be inside the bracket 05:59:02 corrected version in reply 05:59:12 i will observe when my browser stops freezing 06:01:34 basically the idea is to pick a subset of the natural numbers so that each chain has finitely many distinct elements 06:02:08 err, subordering (is that a word?) 06:02:19 but then the union is all the naturals, which have no upper bound 06:03:23 if you don't like "finite" there, you could do it with \omega^2 and do it "modulo" powers of omega rather than 2 06:03:38 s/powers/multiples/ 06:03:52 * elliott takes a look 06:04:49 is that \omega-chain actually properly ordered? 06:05:40 yes, because if n is congruent to m modulo some power of 2, then it is also congruent to m modulo any smaller power of 2 06:05:56 hmm 06:06:20 maybe the ordering on cpos needs to be different 06:06:23 yeah 06:06:35 if a cpo of cpos exists, it must be 06:06:53 if things depend on which choices you make, then they're usually not natural constructions 06:06:55 but you clearly want it to the underlying cpos, right? 06:07:05 *to relate to 06:07:11 right 06:07:20 oerjan: agreed 06:07:24 perhaps reversing it works? 06:07:43 hmm 06:08:02 you mean the same as before except we require that R_1 \supseteq R_2 rather than \subseteq? 06:08:21 wait a minute 06:08:35 elliott: are you sure this will even solve your problem 06:08:43 i actually took a second to think about your chain and 06:08:45 it looks wonky 06:08:54 mnoqy: im ok with diversions 06:08:56 diversions are fun 06:09:05 ok 06:09:08 iirc reading somewhere that a cpo of cpo type things get you the fixed points you need tho 06:09:20 ok 06:09:23 coppro: right (and similarly the Ses) 06:09:55 vague idea for what would be natural: the sup of your chain of cpo's should be equal to their categorical limit when you let inclusions be your morphisms 06:10:09 ye limits being involved makes sense 06:10:14 or colimit, i never quite remember which is which 06:10:15 since that's how you get the recursive cpos more "naturally" 06:10:38 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: gotta go). 06:11:30 colimits are "lubs" (have "injections") and limits are "glbs" (have "projections") 06:11:34 elliott: I think that works 06:11:44 mnoqy: probably colimit then 06:11:46 since the chain would also be a chain in every (S_i, R_i) pair 06:11:54 or wait 06:12:04 no 06:12:05 it would have a supremum 06:12:09 limit 06:12:19 it might not be the same in each set, but ... wait, nope, this doesn't work either 06:12:23 wait... 06:12:32 wouldn't colimit make more sense 06:12:35 yes. 06:12:45 elliott: let S_i = \omega \cdot 2 for all i 06:13:18 i keep confusing with the morphisms out of the limit that give the universal property 06:13:49 ah 06:14:01 i just remember by products are limits and coproducts are colimits 06:14:05 let R_0 be the usual ordering, and let R_{i+1} be R_i except \omega + i is made unordered 06:14:26 then the supremum has every element \omega or bigger being unordered, so \omega itself has no supremum 06:15:26 -!- hogeyui has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:16:09 mnoqy: i just remember they're the opposite way of what i'd have defined them to start with, and _then_ i start getting confused :P 06:16:21 *of how 06:16:47 makes sense 06:17:57 -!- hogeyui has joined. 06:18:49 it's quite possible the category theoretical approach makes more sense and possibly works 06:19:03 to date, I've not had the chance to actually get a decent understanding of category theory 06:19:11 since I keep getting distracted by math actually taught at my school 06:19:27 Category theory is indecent, anyway. 06:19:43 well category theoretical approaches tell you a unique property of what you want, but usually leaves with the work of proving it actually exists. 06:19:53 *leaves you 06:20:11 is my impression. 06:22:20 category theory's pretty cool, pretty cool. i'm learning all about monoids 06:22:46 are they 06:22:46 so 06:22:47 easy 06:22:54 elliott......................................................... 06:22:54 :-) 06:26:10 memeoids 06:26:38 what is a memeoid 06:26:56 oerjan: so about this categorical construction... :P 06:27:14 did someone say something about categorical constructions 06:27:19 whta are you constructing 06:27:38 shachaf: remember elliott's cpo of cpos 06:27:45 no 06:27:53 well you're in for a big treat 06:27:56 elliott: well _if_ the cpo exists in the categorical sense, then it is probably the right thing. 06:28:38 cpo of "small" cpos 06:28:47 (a "big" cpo) 06:28:57 i got a universe inconsistency when defining it in coq :') 06:28:58 that was cute 06:41:31 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:42:18 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:45:02 Bike: What's sw2wolf all about? 06:45:20 never reading the manual, ever? i dunno 06:45:42 Bots? 06:45:50 Or is that just in the other channel? 06:46:32 Well, in #lisp often he asks about stumpwm, a window manager. 06:47:01 « sw2wolf: programming is too abstract. That's why only programmers do it.» so glad i looked at these logs 06:54:00 * sw2wolf bad luck to encounter wai-app-file-cgi-0.8.3 :( 06:54:14 @package wai-app-file-cgi-0.8.3 06:54:17 Bike: this guy is great. 06:55:41 i can only just barely understand whatever he's talking about, and that's only sometimes 06:56:23 we need another IRC-based esolang 06:56:24 not like IRP 06:56:36 and not like the one that's designed to look like IRC logs either 06:56:46 rather, it takes place as apparently random comments across many different channels 06:56:56 that make no sense out of context, or even in context really 06:56:57 i think that's called a botnet dude 06:57:02 not that i'm opposed 06:57:12 yeah, a bit like the way botnets work 06:57:14 just less evil 06:57:26 we're all bots 06:57:33 * ThatOtherPerson is a bot 06:57:38 actually a steganographic botnet C&C system sounds pretty neat 06:57:51 this is actually a bilingual pun???????? 06:57:52 Yeah, but what does it mean? 06:58:01 "bots" means mud in hebrew 06:58:02 shachaf: are you the channel controller ? 06:58:09 Bike: are they this good in #lisp 06:58:54 lessee 06:58:56 God made bots. 06:59:00 God got lonesome. 06:59:09 So God said to some of the bots, "Sit up!" 06:59:22 fungot: Are you a bot? 06:59:22 fizzie: write me a sf account? 06:59:30 Uh oh. 06:59:34 * sw2wolf I know CL step by step by hacking STUMPWM. It seems other lisp dialects cannot provide such a real app. for you to tweak :) 06:59:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:59:48 fungot: No...... 06:59:48 fizzie: what's wrong with having a few instructions in the readme in that ftp archive i pointed to, since it has a ridiculous limit on the number of times 06:59:53 I hate stumpwm because I watched a video of it once 06:59:55 ais523: you'd have to be pretty shrewd to avoid getting banned (network or channel) for spaming, I think. 06:59:57 and the fucking guy pronounced it like 06:59:59 stumpwayyem 07:00:03 and now i hear it 07:00:05 EVERY FUCKING TIME 07:00:09 * sw2wolf maybe it is easy to understand symbol to regard it as Memory Address ? 07:00:54 hm i have said way too many things to this guy 07:01:11 surely it should be stumpduddlyyem 07:01:55 < sw2wolf> macro-syntax: Scheme seems elegant than CL, but few applications developed using Scheme compared with CL 07:02:14 ok he tried to talk to rudybot for like ten minutes once 07:02:27 rudybot is not in the channel, needless to say 07:02:58 burydot 07:04:11 Bike: well he is right. scheme is way better than cl. 07:04:33 sw2wolf is right 07:04:48 elliott: are you the lisp controller ? 07:04:59 yes. 07:05:06 oh 07:05:27 and i'm as easy as monoisd 07:05:28 ds 07:05:38 monoisdds 07:06:44 thith lithp ith outh oth conthrol 07:06:50 oh my god 07:07:23 maybe i should make an esolang called "rhoticism". 07:08:10 lisp? more like shit. 07:08:28 shhhihth 07:08:30 Randall Ahmed is the name he loves to be called with but it's not the most masucline name out there. After being out of his job for years he became a database administrator. Doing 3d graphics is the thing he loves most. His wife and him chose to reside in American Samoa. His wife and he maintain a website. You might want to check it out: http://ti-89.org/wiki/?title=Acute_and_recurring_pain_studied 07:08:51 help 07:09:03 elliott: spambot? 07:09:14 ais523: a page you deleted yesterday 07:09:26 yep 07:09:41 everything is perfect. 07:09:43 I guess if that sort of spam happens more, I can also disallow one-liners that end with a link 07:09:50 from the name. to the comment on the name. to the job and love. 07:09:56 to the location. to the wording of the location. 07:09:58 to the domain name 07:10:16 I admit not reading it more than was necessary to establish it was spam 07:10:37 hey can i be a wiki admin 07:10:42 btw, it's likely linking to a spam page on a legitimate wiki 07:10:57 the domain is squatted by a hosting company. 07:11:02 i thought the same 07:11:17 it would have been even better if it linked to a spam page on a wiki about TI-89 calculators, really 07:11:32 if it linked to a totally normal wiki page on ti89s 07:11:35 (answer: yes i can "inside joke") 07:11:59 Bike: that reminds me of the spambot who was spamming links to google.com 07:12:06 as [google.com google] 07:12:12 my guess is it was a spambot author testing something 07:12:19 and using it as an example.com substitute 07:12:27 err, [http://google.com google] 07:12:30 Google trying to increase their PageRank? 07:12:31 shachaf: be careful, soon elliott may be desperate enough to make you one 07:12:44 oerjan: i would do absolutely nothing 07:13:04 oerjan: actually we have basically no spam edits now 07:13:14 the spam filters on edits are holding very effectively 07:13:22 ais523: and _still_ recent changes is overrun :P 07:13:24 however, the CAPTCHA isn't, so we get a lot of spam registrations 07:13:34 i'll work on it soon, promise 07:14:12 oerjan: I can adjust the edit filter, but only elliott can adjust the CAPTCHA 07:14:35 elliott: fwiw, I have a strong suspicion that making the answers change over time would defeat the spambot reasonably comprehensively 07:14:37 CAPTCHA: Write a 200 word essay on why spamming should carry the death penalty. Be convincing. 07:14:51 even if it's something as simple as "what number is the day within the month?" 07:15:00 ais523: well if there's a human... 07:15:05 because I suspect it's working from a framework designed to attack MediaWiki in particular but not Esolang in particular 07:15:15 i wish i knew about limits and stuff. properly. 07:15:16 and that human involvement is used to compile answers initially, but not beyond that 07:15:22 ais523: they'll just adjust the answers, I suspect 07:15:35 well it'll waste more of their time than it will of ours 07:15:42 and that's how all antispam measures work, eventually 07:15:58 I was considering blocking the user-agent from registering if it's distinctive 07:16:02 or something like that 07:16:13 elliott: Limits as in categories? 07:16:16 elliott: from my checkusering, it appears to be faking common browser user-agents 07:16:20 shachaf: right 07:16:22 but not in a particularly consistent way 07:16:34 ais523: well, it's fairly likely there's *some* distinctive mark 07:16:58 elliott: I guess… check which order the fields are submitte din 07:17:00 *submitted in 07:17:02 on the login form 07:17:15 then see if we can reorder them in the HTML and see if the spambots still reorder them in their automated submissions 07:17:19 ais523: btw, this kind of thing acts as motivation for me to rewrite the wiki software, so mediawiki spambots have no hope :P 07:17:33 (though updating mediawiki acts as an even greater motivation there.) 07:18:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:29:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:46:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Will be gone for a while.). 07:55:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:58:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:01:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 08:19:49 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:24:03 -!- carado has joined. 08:30:02 fizzie: oooh, inter-channel correlation. that makes sense given that blu-ray loves things like 5.1 and 7.1 08:30:03 Fiora: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 08:30:20 I often forget non-stereo audio exists <.< 08:30:36 oh boy a message 08:30:42 hi Fiora 08:38:15 Even for stereo signals, one benefits from encoding them non-independently. 08:39:37 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 08:40:27 FLAC seems to have four encoding modes for pairs of stereo channels -- independent, mid-side ((left+right)/2 and left-right), left-side (left and right-left) and right-side (right and left-right). 08:40:35 something about joint stereo?? 08:41:49 I think lossy formats' joint-stereo mode is something slightly more elaborate than just the mid+side approach. But that's just a hunch. 08:42:18 adjoint stereo?? 08:42:29 oerjan: hi 08:42:44 Something closer to having the averaged signal, plus some parameters for panning the subbands. 08:42:52 oerjan: greetings from the past 08:43:51 wow, that's a lot of modes. I only know of mid-side 08:44:20 Fiora: "Surprisingly, the left-side and right-side forms can be the most efficient in many frames, even though the raw number of bits per sample needed for the original signal is slightly more than that needed for independent or mid-side coding." (FLAC format docs.) 08:45:01 huh. 08:45:32 i am so glad people know about lossless audio compression so i don't have to 08:45:41 why @_@ this sounds really cool! 08:45:57 well 08:46:00 it's not that i don't want to 08:46:03 it's just that i don't! 08:46:15 so if i had to know about it, right now i would be sitting with a big ol pile of wav files 08:46:23 hey i want to know about audio compression 08:46:25 one thing I remember is that like, 24-bit audio is often more than twice as large as 16-bit in lossless 08:46:41 because the low bits have way more entropy than the high ones, since they're noisier and harder to LPC-predict 08:46:58 Fiora: Looking at the actual bits, though, it appears as if (in FLAC) you can only use the channel intercorrelation parts for stereo files. There doesn't seem to be an encoding for using any of those modes when there are >2 channels. (I might be wrong about this.) 08:47:01 I think it's the same with like 16-bit PNG vs 8-bit PNG being like a gazillion times larger 08:47:06 i read a Monty thing where he went on about 24 bit being pointless 08:47:09 i'm contributing!! 08:47:33 "Unfortunately, there is no point to distributing music in 24-bit/192kHz format. Its playback fidelity is slightly inferior to 16/44.1 or 16/48, and it takes up 6 times the space." wham 08:47:35 ahhhh. I remember that being like a problem with vorbis too, like, it wasn't designed for many-channel modes originally or something. and I guess mp3 too? 08:47:46 "Responses indicate that few people understand basic signal theory or the sampling theorem, which is hardly surprising." boom?? 08:49:35 Fiora: I don't know the historical background, but it supports 1-8 independent channels (channel assignment codes 0..7), or the three special stereo modes mentioned above (codes 8..10); just not a generic "here's more than two channels and they're actually correlated too" thing. 08:49:56 Yeah, that makes sense... 08:51:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:51:34 ALAC can do 32 bits per sample. 08:51:47 I'm sure there's someone somewhere storing their audio as IEEE 754 doubles. 08:54:31 I vaguely recall that the S/PDIF stream is "natively" 20 bits/sample, but you can stretch it to 24 bits, except then the extra bits are stuck in some less logical places and ignored by some devices. 08:57:49 how does channel correlation work between more than 2 channels? 08:57:57 2 channels seems to be a nice "easy" case where you can just do, like, mid-side 08:58:05 but more dimensions makes things messier I'd guess 08:58:30 You could certainly do just one main channel and all the others as differences, in hopes that the (presumably small) difference channels compress better. 08:58:35 I guess you could have some kind of N*M-dimensional predictor, where N is your LPC order and M is the number of channels, but that sounds painful 09:01:23 Presumably you could also share the predictor coefficients, but that doesn't sound like a likely gain. 09:03:02 I meant, like, normally one channel only predicts from itself, right? but instead you could have coefficients for how every channel predicts from every other channel in combination or something 09:03:15 (that sounds like it'd balloon fast) 09:03:46 You could look at http://www.meridian-audio.com/w_paper/mlp_jap_new.PDF for what MLP does -- it seems to use a quite generic series of transformations for the channel decorrelation. 09:03:56 (Page three.) 09:05:07 how is my little pny's channel decorrelated? as far as i know, it always airs on the same channel. that's a pretty strong correlation. 09:05:28 ohhh, a matrix thing. 09:05:49 A matrix thing except with some wrinkles to make it lossless. 09:06:22 this is reminiscent of um... what was it called 09:06:32 oh, YCgCo 09:07:12 RGB->YUV uses like those decimal coefficients that have rounding errors, while YCgCo uses a formula that's invertible, so you can use it to decorrelate the 3 RGB channels for lossless compression 09:07:55 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/e/5/1/e5195697a23c4f8ef9d4b7af745df9a2.png 09:12:19 `quote 09:12:23 843) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it 09:12:31 I went to a talk about JPEG compression once. 09:12:33 That was good. 09:13:10 JPEG compression is complicated. :-( 09:13:14 throw in some DCT and huffman, mix it around until it says JPEG? 09:13:32 -!- labouche has joined. 09:13:41 More complicated than, say, LZW. 09:14:12 olsner: Also a zigzag, I remember the zigzag. 09:14:34 and the scan order thing, where you can have like multiple huffman tables 09:14:39 ↯ 09:15:00 (which was intended for progressive but you can kind of throw anything at it or something?) 09:15:02 (Zigzag referring to the ordering of the quantized block DCT coefficient so that all the zeros are at the end.) 09:15:57 http://vsr.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/~jan/MPEG/HTML/zigzag.gif zigzags!' 09:16:13 JPEG 2000 can do lossless, I think. 09:16:16 that's all part of the "mixing around" step :P 09:16:32 And it's still wavelets when it's lossless, or something. 09:16:45 JPEG 2000 is, like, this millennium, man. 09:16:59 I think jpeg had a lossless mode too? 09:17:03 No, this millenium started in 2001. 09:17:04 but nobody used it (?) 09:17:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_JPEG ah 09:17:15 Silly fizzie. 09:17:18 Sillizzie? 09:17:29 Fiora: Did you watch any more Look Around You? 09:17:31 sillie? 09:17:41 um... no I haven't 09:18:28 Fiora: Hey, JPEG2k also has a modified reversible YUV variant for the lossless mode. (The default mode does Y'CbCr.) 09:18:43 does it do like ycgco, or something else? 09:19:09 Looking at the numbers, it seems pretty similar. 09:19:33 At least the Y channel's the same. 09:20:08 Number? We're not pulling teeth 'ere! 09:20:17 I remember the tricky thing with YCgCo is that it requires 1 extra bit of range in the Cg and Co channels 09:20:36 (while like yuv doesn't) 09:20:59 The chroma channels seem different; It has C_B = B-G and C_R = R-G. 09:20:59 the logic being something like "only ~1/4 of YUV maps to valid RGB, so to losslessly represent RGB, the YUV space has to be about 4 times bigger" 09:21:13 wow, that almost sounds like mid-side XD 09:21:34 While Y is the same (R+2G+B)/4 like in YCgCo. 09:21:45 Well, floor of that. 09:22:36 Then you get just G = Y - floor((C_B + C_R)/4) for the reverse. 09:25:22 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:26:36 Not that I've ever come across a .jp2/.jpx file anywhere, so it's perhaps all a bit academic. 09:27:07 imo Gregor shouldn't have voice 09:27:09 it scares me 09:27:25 but academic stuff is fun 09:27:54 What, like "publish-or-perish"? 09:28:52 Here's a nice peek at Linux development practices (courtesy of a different #channel): http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.pci/21634 09:29:36 I'm sure it's also in your Diddits or whatevers that you use these days. 09:30:57 -!- labouche has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:38:23 *pfff 09:39:41 Fiora: You should come back to #fiora! 09:40:15 um, I recreated it as ##fiora 09:40:18 so that I could register it 09:43:34 Freenode should designate a prefix (###?) so that each account has an autocreated, autoregistered "nick channel" automatically. 09:43:52 Also possibly some kind of a service that says nice things about the person in question on that channel every now and then. 09:44:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:44:12 For pdpc supporters only. 09:48:33 -!- carado has joined. 10:08:19 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:13:58 -!- carado has joined. 10:15:26 -!- itsy has joined. 10:15:37 I just invented a new Esolang :-) 10:15:50 Topsy Turvey 10:22:44 < increment the data pointer 10:22:44 > decrement the data pointer 10:22:44 - increment the byte at the data pointer 10:22:44 + decrement the byte at the data pointer 10:22:44 , output the byte at the data pointer 10:22:45 . accept one byte of input 10:22:45 ] if the data pointer points to zero, jump to the matching [ 10:22:46 :1:15: parse error on input `data' 10:22:46 [ if the data pointer points to nonzero, jump to the matching ] 10:22:46 ^ change polarity, switch < with > and - with + 10:23:18 ... 10:23:38 -!- itsy has left. 10:25:26 `quote itsy 10:25:27 No output. 10:26:47 -!- itsy has changed nick to john_metcalf. 10:35:29 Can you think what would have happened, had Phantom_Hoover been here? We really dodged a brick there. 10:36:18 how many minor bf alterations are in existence? 10:37:03 "Category:Brainfuck derivatives: The following 109 pages are in this category, out of 109 total." 10:37:17 (18 in Category:Brainfuck equivalents.) 10:38:32 itsy seems to have been impomatic 10:40:29 * itsy (~digital_w@87.115.210.249) has joined 10:40:38 * [impomatic] (~john_metc@87.115.210.249) 10:40:49 hmmmm >.> 10:42:53 impomatic (~digital_w@87.115.210.249) has left #esoteric 10:43:11 About 27 hours ago 10:44:44 Perhaps it was just someone living in the same household, or something. 10:45:02 hiding his secret identity as a bf derivative author 10:48:01 -!- 36DAAFBDO has joined. 10:52:45 -!- 36DAAFBDO has changed nick to sirdancealot. 10:53:05 -!- Whtspc has joined. 10:54:25 `lastlog taneb 10:54:26 lastlog: unexpected argument: taneb \ Usage: lastlog [options] \ \ Options: \ -b, --before DAYS print only lastlog records older than DAYS \ -h, --help display this help message and exit \ -t, --time DAYS print only lastlog records more recent than DAYS \ -u, --user LOGIN print last 10:54:35 any first comments on my sketch esolang: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Geharrewar ?? 10:55:54 is there something fresh in it, or is it a copy of dusty ideas :)? 10:56:08 TikZ is the BesT. Even if it ist kein Zeichenprogramm. 10:58:02 That thing reminds me of Fueue, except that Fueue is perhaps somewhat more user-unfriendly. 11:04:24 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:40:53 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:55:43 -!- Whtspc has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:01:35 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:06:25 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 13:00:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:06:15 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:08:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:08:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:21:02 Did some of you people speak of Antichamber, the game? Something called that is -50% off in Steam today. 13:21:59 i've been waiting for this moment 13:22:02 thanks fizzie 13:22:14 find me a computer capable of running it for 50% off 13:24:08 -!- pdurbin has left ("WeeChat 0.4.0"). 13:24:19 http://www.itsco.de/computer/fujitsu_siemens_pcs/pc_fujitsu_siemens_esprimo_p5625_amd_athlon_64_x2_5600_2x_29ghz_i8_8233_0.htm there you go, I'm sure that's at least 50% off the original price. 13:24:41 (I just took the system requirements from Steam, and selected the first hit at itsco.de that had marginally bigger numbers.) 13:25:08 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:27:34 hurray 13:27:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:30:56 I think I have a computer very much like that, except with twice the RAM and two dozen times the disk space. Maybe it would be time to upgrade one day. 13:36:18 antichamber is really really wonderful 13:39:31 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 13:41:48 Would Haswell be a nice microarchitecture to upgrade to, from Windsor (one of the Athlon 64 X2's)? Aren't those supposed to come out soon? I'm sure you guys follow these things. 13:41:59 Also related, I need a hat. What's a good hat'chitecture? 13:43:58 geez that would be a pretty huge upgrade 13:44:09 but yeah, haswell seems pretty nice? 13:45:58 I hear it has New Instructions. 13:46:25 written in Newspeak? 13:47:56 DoublePlusMorphism? 13:48:25 new instructions~~ 13:48:47 BMI1, BMI2, AVX2, SMEP, FSGSBASE, TSX, oh my! 13:48:53 so are those haswell things coming out soon? 13:49:03 I think someone said something about summer somewhere. 13:49:06 i just want, like, a new computer. someday. 13:49:14 um. I think July 13:49:26 June 2nd 13:49:27 hm july is in like a week. roughly. 13:49:32 ooh, half a week. 13:49:36 XD 13:49:41 apparently the mobile and desktop ones are both coming out? 13:49:49 too bad they'll cost about a week when they come up. 13:49:54 come out, i mean. i guess come up too. 13:50:02 they design intel processors under the sea, presumably 13:50:10 in a nuclear submarine. 13:50:38 Yes, there's the early adopter fee. 13:50:44 ~eval 60 * 24 * 7 / 30 13:50:47 336.0 13:51:15 you could also probably grab an ivy bridge after the price drop? 13:52:40 Fiora: But our household already has a Sandy Bridge (my laptop) and an Ivy Bridge (my wife's laptop), isn't there something called... what was it... Intel Exclusion Principle, that in one house you can't have more than one quantum something something, and so I couldn't get another Ivy Bridge. 13:53:28 It's like Intel systems are fermions and AMD ones are bosons. 13:53:32 (I'm not a physicist.) 13:53:42 wait if you already have those two why do you need another @_@ 13:53:55 that's a lot of fast computers 13:54:25 it's like: I already have two raspberries, and I want to have a udoo too. 13:54:37 Those are both laptops, I'd like to upgrade my desktop compumator too. There's more dick space in it, for one thing. 13:55:00 Also more monitors. 13:55:11 ohhhhh 13:55:32 upgrade, though? won't you have to pretty much replace everything anyways? 13:55:38 I keep using it for web surfing, and it keeps going all swappy, and I can't fit more memory in it except maybe with a hammer. 13:56:00 It'll go in the same box, it's still an upgrade. 13:56:21 Also, I think I can keep the disks for now. 13:57:36 New graphics card, too...? 13:58:10 It'd probably count as an upgrade even if I kept the integrated GPU. 13:58:33 It has a passive-cooled Geforce 7600 in it at the moment. 13:58:33 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:58:38 That's a few generations old. 13:58:50 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:59:34 * Fiora tries to figure out which generation that was from 13:59:49 yeah... wow. geeez. that was a long time ago 14:00:23 that's ~6-7 generations old... wow 14:00:30 it's been a long time... 14:02:31 The desktop is that old because last upgrade cycle, the iBook G4 I had for a laptop was starting to show signs of age (like disk errors), and I needed a working laptop for occasional travelling, so I went with the kind of laptop that also sort of served for occasional gamery purposes. 14:02:57 I suppose it was a bit of a compromise (esp. w.r.t. portability), but it's worked just fine. 14:03:34 does 6-7 generations mean like, 3 years 14:03:36 or 2 years 14:03:37 It looks like you're right, I think, the Intel HD 4000 on the ivy bridge is like, 3x faster than the 7600 GS 14:03:44 and the haswell's supposed to be a bunch better 14:04:33 ummm I think the 7000 series was from like 2005 14:04:44 which is somehow 8 years ago now 14:05:22 Looking at release dates in Wikipedia, both the graphics card and the CPU seem to be from around 2005-2006. Maybe 2007, they weren't the very newest thing when I got them. 14:05:58 i can buy 2005 being 8 years ago. what doesn't make any sense is that 2008 was 5 years ago. 14:06:46 Yeah, you can't just change the digits around like that. 14:11:31 What about the hat, though, are there any leaked roadmaps showing new hat architectures just around the corner? I need it before June. 14:15:20 (It should be more or less opaque, and preferrably it should make me look only as stupid as necessary, up to a constant factor, in case that matters.) 14:39:15 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:43:34 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 14:58:48 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 14:58:53 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:00:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:14:14 -!- conehead has joined. 15:16:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:21:21 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:28:31 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:30:51 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 15:35:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:41:02 -!- carado_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:48:17 18.16:54:37 fizzie | Those are both laptops, I'd like to upgrade my desktop compumator too. There's more dick space in it, for one thing. 15:48:28 Was that an intentional choice of words? 15:48:53 ~duck compumator 15:48:53 --- No relevant information 15:54:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:55:13 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:55:39 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 15:57:14 Deewiant: Yes. 15:57:23 Deewiant: Though it's also true literally. 15:57:43 I would hesitate to stick a dick in the laptop. 15:58:04 Well, maybe the desktop too, all those spinning fans. 15:58:33 All the spinning fans 15:58:35 All of them 16:01:02 you could do it the mythbusters way and stick a ballistic gel dick in your various machines. 16:03:04 Mythbusters, shouldn't they be starting 2013 episodes one of these days? 16:04:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:05:04 could you use ballistic gel to approximate a dick anyway 16:08:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:11:32 Phantom_Hoover, that sounds like a question for the Mythbusters 16:12:09 perhaps a little risqu for the american market? 16:12:57 Perhaps a question for Brainiac: Science Abuse 16:13:00 Do they still make that? 16:13:04 I don't think they do 16:13:26 thank god 16:13:45 i met dr bunhead once and he was just like "yeah i mean it's all bullshit" 16:14:11 Was that the show where they faked the alkali metal thing? 16:14:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:14:30 yes 16:14:33 That's the only thing I know about it. 16:15:14 Hello 16:15:55 I watched brainiac once 16:15:58 pretty weird. 16:16:20 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:17:25 "The entire left-most column of the periodic table (not counting hydrogen) is composed of elements that are great fun to throw in a lake --" interesting way of classifying elements. 16:17:38 And who's to say throwing some hydrogen in a lake wouldn't be fun? 16:18:08 unfortunately, the way it works out is that the explosive potential peaks at sodium and potassium 16:18:16 "One, two, three! Oh, it just floated away" 16:18:40 because rubidium and caesium are less dense and have a higher molar mass, so they produce less hydrogen 16:19:59 i'm sure that's what mendeleev had in mind 16:23:30 "This unpredictability makes sodium arguably the most dangerous of the alkali metals in inexperienced hands (soon to be inexperienced stumps)." This page has a tone. 16:24:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aD6HwUE2c0 also 16:27:59 -!- Bike has joined. 16:28:40 (this also means that all the "so if you put francium into water it would BLOW UP ALL THE THINGS EVER" line of thinking is completely wrong) 16:33:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:33:57 -!- Bike has joined. 16:39:52 -!- Bike_ has joined. 16:42:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:43:20 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:53:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:06:43 fizzie: If you've got liquid hydrogen I dare-say it'd be quite fun. 17:10:26 -!- btiffin has joined. 17:11:50 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:17:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:21:48 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:33:59 -!- Lymia has joined. 17:37:11 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:37:18 -!- kallisti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:42:25 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:42:50 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:43:04 The first tools for solving such equations were provided by Scott using his inverse 17:43:07 limit constructions [33]. Later he showed how the inverse limits could be entirely 17:43:10 avoided by using a universal domain and the ordinary least fixed point construction 17:43:13 [34]. 17:43:16 aha!! 17:44:04 data types as lattices here i go 17:45:10 oh. this is lame 18:12:33 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:18:22 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:27:35 French spam is back on the wiki! 18:28:41 hm, since feb. 15 you can get metal goats. sounds interesting. 18:30:47 Does the French spam make more or less sense than the average English spam 18:31:50 it does. it's like fungot, but with a better and clearer markov-chainy feel. 18:31:50 boily: thanks for the link 18:32:03 fungot: I ain't linked nothing yet, you baka! 18:32:03 boily: another way, did you know... just lazy i guess you wouldn't know about many books that i here are " it isn't an illusion, you are duplicating effort. 18:32:19 fungot: oh. sorry. my bad! 18:32:19 boily: so chicken is very practical, ie it gets your work done early then that means the probability is the absolute limit 18:32:44 fungot: do you eat chicken? 18:32:44 olsner: it'd be an fnord 18:33:00 ^style 18:33:00 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 18:33:00 chicken is good, but pork is better. 18:33:11 pork pork pork 18:33:24 fungot: rainy today, don't you think? 18:33:24 FireFly: time it before and somehow got the impression that the latest aol " 1099 hours free" cds come in are neat in themselves. 18:33:46 fungot: that's a lot of hours 18:33:46 FireFly: my own one, and i ran against a wall, then back to new tabs on the other 18:34:03 ~metar CYUL 18:34:05 CYUL 181800Z 13020KT 15SM FEW030 OVC057 07/03 A3006 RMK SC1SC7 PRESFR SLP180 18:34:11 i read 'metal ghosts' 18:34:12 -!- impomatic has left ("http://corewar.co.uk "). 18:34:26 kmc, any good? 18:35:50 i mean that i read something someone said above as 'metal ghosts' 18:36:06 metal ghosts would be a good name for something 18:36:56 kmc: that someone would be me, I think. 18:37:23 I think I'd like metal goats better 18:37:25 I still prefer the goat version. less dangerous, and conforms to walls and (usually) don't try to pass through them. 18:37:36 olsner: great to see I'm not alone. 18:41:37 if a metal ghost passes through your computer, does the computer crash 18:42:24 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:42:48 does the metal from the ghost conduct electricity? 18:47:41 ~metar EFHK 18:47:42 EFHK 181820Z 19017KT 9999 -RA OVC030 09/06 Q1000 TEMPO 6000 RA 18:48:31 Will I ever get in trouble for understanding a monoid as a Haskell Monoid? 18:48:41 It's -RA'ing, and I guess the trend is RA too? 18:49:12 fizzie: yes, a TEMPO means a temporary change. 18:49:26 Taneb: a monoid is just a one-object category! 18:49:46 What would a zero-object category be 18:50:07 ~metar EGNT 18:50:08 EGNT 181820Z 25020G30KT 9999 FEW017 SCT025 09/04 Q1005 18:51:14 fizzie: «Temporary fluctuation in some of the elements lasting for periods of 18:51:16 30 minutes or more but not longer than one hour with each instance and does 18:51:18 not cover more than half of the total period indicated by HHHH.» 18:51:34 25020G30KT -> wind direction 250 degrees, 20 knots, up to 30 in gusts? 18:51:50 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:52:16 fizzie: exactly. 18:52:47 I still don't know what the 9999 is. Visibility? 18:53:23 maybe they sneak in nonsense tokens to expose the outsiders 18:54:10 fizzie: ground visibility. 9999 means nothing to worry about. 18:54:19 olsner, isn't that supposed to be how society began or something 18:54:35 with north american METARs, you may see something like 24 or 30SM. 18:54:35 nonsense? probably. 18:54:37 Four nines silver. 18:54:38 ~metar CYUL 18:54:39 CYUL 181800Z 13020KT 15SM FEW030 OVC057 07/03 A3006 RMK SC1SC7 PRESFR SLP180 18:54:57 oh, a delicious PRESFR! 18:55:13 A3006 was in sillyunits? 18:55:23 (There was a discussion.) 18:56:34 millimetres of mercury. 18:56:37 oh, no. inches. 18:56:39 even worse. 18:57:26 one atmosphere at 25 °C is 29.97 inHg. 18:57:36 At least the temperature was still in Celsius. 19:00:06 What's the SC1SC7 at CYUL? 19:00:59 one okta of stratocumulus at 3000' and seven oktas of the same at 5700'. 19:01:33 Oh, so it's an addition to the FEW030 OVC057 part? 19:01:48 indeed. 19:03:01 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 19:05:00 Taneb: in a zero object category you'd have no arrows either "it'd be pretty boring" 19:06:26 Makes sense 19:16:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:21:15 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:26:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:46:49 Taneb, nooodl: wouldn't a zero-object category be an initial object in Cat? i.e. there's a functor from it to every other small category 19:47:05 which might make it a bit less boring 19:47:19 I dunno, I'm mostly curious if I got things wrong or not 19:47:44 FireFly, I have no idea 19:47:49 yeah that's right 19:47:54 Similarly, the category of all small categories with functors as morphisms has the empty category as initial object ... 19:49:43 Taneb: it depends what you mean by "Haskell monoid". there's nothing in the language to check that your Monoid instance satisfies the laws 19:50:24 kmc, well, assuming total functions, a Haskell monoid satisfies closure at least 19:50:37 But other than that... 19:50:41 And even then... 19:50:50 type + _|_ I think has to be closed? 19:50:55 ? 19:51:17 kmc, I'm not quite sure what I'm saying 19:51:38 It doesn't check that mempty is the identity of mappend, or that mappend is associative 19:51:48 i think if you write «instance Monoid Foo» then you are only really claiming to satisfy the laws for non-⊥ elements of Foo 19:52:05 and maybe even only for elements of Foo that don't contain a ⊥ anywhere 19:52:14 Haskell programmers usually gloss over these issues when talking about typeclass laws 19:53:12 you'll often have a situation where (⊥ `mappend` mempty) ≠ ⊥, as well 19:53:35 > undefined `mappend` () :: () 19:53:36 () 19:55:19 -!- btiffin has left. 19:55:54 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:56:55 fast and loose reasoning is morally correct ect. 19:57:02 of course i've never read that paper but i can cite it anyway and also im so fuckign tired 19:58:43 kmc, ooh, how do you do the bottom symbol 19:59:09 i do Compose B B with my ~/.XCompose 19:59:33 https://github.com/kmcallister/math-compose 20:00:38 magical 20:02:13 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:03:04 wow : "∙" U2219 20:03:11 that's awkward 20:03:58 _|_ 20:05:13 hmm, a 1h documentary about alan davies measuring the length of a piece of string 20:05:28 20:05:41 (I've just remembered how fun the Alt Gr key can be) 20:07:42 I seem to be watching some sort of US news comedy show 20:07:57 which one 20:08:01 I don't know 20:08:04 Not Stephen Colbert 20:08:06 is it the daily show 20:08:08 with jon stewart 20:08:17 I don't know 20:08:33 It's got some guy with grey hair and a purple-ish tie 20:08:56 Might be him 20:09:01 http://bpr.berkeley.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jon-stewart.jpg ? 20:09:37 i went to a filming of the daily show in new york 20:09:56 it's free to go 20:09:58 I think I prefer Chaser's War on Everything 20:10:01 the studio is a lot smaller than i thought 20:10:14 Taneb: it's even more fun if you override the third- and fourth-level mappings with custom characters 20:10:17 As far as foreign political comedy goes 20:10:33 I have ∀ on altgr+shift+å for instance 20:10:38 and ∧ on altgr+å 20:10:49 I don't have a key 20:10:55 my å key is on qwerty q 20:11:10 https://bitbucket.org/firefly/dotfiles/src/ed6758e4b8a0de448992b44ac5bc18705bb18469/xkb/firefly.symbols?at=default#cl-15 20:11:35 My alt-gr q has a spare @ 20:11:48 > '@' = '@' 20:11:50 :1:5: parse error on input `=' 20:11:52 > '@' == '@' 20:11:53 taneb: I like both. 20:11:53 True 20:12:00 I think this is the Daily Show 20:12:12 The guy just got called some variant of John 20:12:17 my q key displays a spare @ but makes a spare ä 20:12:23 åbčdəffγhijĸlmn°pqrßtŭ∨w×y↯ 20:12:38 áb©ðéfghíïœøµñóöäëßþú®åœüæ 20:12:54 攢ðœŋħ→ijĸŀµʼnøþ¶ßŧ↓“łx←z 20:13:29 @łe¶ŧ←↓→øþæßðđŋħł«»¢“”nµ 20:13:30 Unknown command, try @list 20:13:52 @łe¶ŧ 20:13:52 Unknown command, try @list 20:14:04 ΩŁŒ®Ŧ¥↑ıØÞƧЪŊĦIJĿZX©‘’♪º 20:14:44 Okay, my dad picked up the remote and flicked. 20:14:49 I am no longer watching the Daily Show 20:15:03 I went full force with xmodmap a few weeks ago: http://pastebin.com/BJm2a9kG 20:15:10 I usually watch it online, it's easier that way 20:15:20 ... well and also I don't have cable, so 20:15:35 I think satellite's more common in the UK? 20:15:47 they have them all free on the official website, I think 20:16:09 maybe only for US IP addresses 20:16:16 they have them on Hulu which is definitely IP-restricted 20:16:16 You use zz for ↯ much? 20:16:57 oh geez, that's true... I'm not sure if comedy central does geoblocking 20:17:10 Fiora: i forgot about it but I'll try to use it more now that I've remembered 20:17:51 comedy central do 20:18:06 there's a uk website now but afaict it doesn't have `the goods' on it 20:18:35 əß©ð€fŋhıjĸlµño¶q®šþuvw×yž is what comes out of altgr-{a..z} here. 20:18:46 (the daily show is shown daily on more 4 but i haven't watched it in years) 20:18:50 er, that was meant to be fizzie: 20:20:03 In other news, I'm worried I'm trapped in a positive feedback loop that is driving my political compass increasingly south-west 20:20:07 I can't decide which one of fizzie or FireFly has the most esoteric available character (w/o using compose) 20:21:15 Taneb, towards cornwall??? 20:21:18 towards wales? 20:21:27 Phantom_Hoover, towards south cumbria, currently 20:21:38 aren't they a bunch of farmers 20:21:46 Perhaps even as far south as Blackpool 20:22:35 (a sentence fragment ais523 never dreamed of hearing) 20:26:06 Hmm 20:26:14 Windemere seems to be roughly south-west from here 20:26:53 which one? 20:26:58 blackpool is indeed south of my whole country 20:27:00 most likely south of alleged canada as well 20:27:18 I think it's north of, eg, Toronto 20:27:41 oh, yes indeed 20:28:00 toronto is a further 10 degrees south even 20:28:26 southern canada is strangely south. and manages to be friggin cold at the same time. 20:28:30 Pretty sure it's north of Calgary 20:29:01 boily, Lake Windermere 20:29:09 calgary is 51°, blackpool is 53. 20:29:48 Taneb: so you are east of hexham's middle, northeast from lake windermere. 20:30:29 boily, Windermere is pretty long 20:30:36 And I am in the east of Hexham 20:30:53 olsner: alleged? 20:30:57 canada is more than alleged! 20:30:59 yeah. the error margin is pretty large. meh :/ 20:31:06 coppro: proof? 20:31:13 olsner: I've been there 20:31:24 so you say 20:31:56 *cough* uhm... if I may say so, I *think* I am there, now. like, I'm pretty sure. 20:32:52 I followed this map: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Canada-ItsUpThere.gif 20:33:21 there's a non-null chance of you falling into the Great Lakes, mind you. 20:33:38 have you had any drowning experiences or adventures in the past? 20:33:49 no 20:34:15 One of my friends drowned to death once 20:34:17 She got better 20:38:22 that's good 20:40:04 (actually true story) 20:41:36 I mean, not the drowning to death part 20:50:40 you have an unconventional definition of death Taneb 20:50:52 Phantom_Hoover, no heartbeat 20:51:00 also: your (female, at least) friends seem to have terrible luck 20:51:20 Phantom_Hoover, most of my anecdotes are about one friend 20:51:24 Phantom_Hoover: It's not all that unconventional. See e.g. Christianity. 20:51:33 Wow, she has really terrible luck. 20:51:52 Then there was that other guy who got hit by a car and died and got better 20:52:11 Also, the head injury female friend is someone else completely 20:52:38 So, I have about three friends who have bad luck like that 20:52:40 2 have died 20:52:41 in the grim darkness of the far north there is only bodily harm 20:52:49 ikr 20:53:01 Yesterday evening I bashed my knee and I think it's bruised 20:53:10 Takneeb 20:53:31 i thought that was some hebrew thing for a second 20:53:32 did you kill it knee and it got better too? 20:53:33 and i was like wat 20:53:49 I still have a nice scar on my knee, result of an accident involving a flowerbed and a car being washed. 20:53:57 olsner, alas, no 20:54:07 I went to a children's playground 20:54:12 And there was a big climby thing 20:54:16 paedo 20:54:30 The youngest person there was 18, Phantom_Hoover. 20:54:39 I climbed the big climby thing 20:54:48 Then I climbed down the big climby thing 20:54:49 all of you paedos 20:54:59 Then I tripped on the big climby thing and hit my knee 20:55:22 Taneb: ok i don't want to be your friend anymore 20:55:36 coppro, why not? 20:55:37 the youth of hexham struggle to find what joy they can 20:55:44 it seems potentially fatal 20:55:56 Taneb is moving to California anyway. Isn't that right? 20:55:58 One of those deaths was before I knew them 20:56:01 attempting to regress to a more innocent time, Taneb only wounds himself further 20:56:06 shachaf, maybe, in about 6 years 20:56:13 I meant tomorrow. 20:56:18 Unlikely 20:56:24 why would you go to california 20:56:27 I have a party to attend on Saturday in Hexham 20:56:27 it seems annoying 20:56:31 Because it's the place to be? 20:56:37 There are parties in California, Taneb. 20:56:38 Taneb: *before* you knew them? did you retroactively kill then unkill one of your friends? 20:56:48 party?? or a bunch of you standing around in a leaky shed 20:56:49 olsner, no, this was an accidental drowning 20:56:59 California is too hot, IMHO. 20:57:15 boily: Which part? 20:57:26 The part that's hotter than boily 20:57:31 Because boily sounds like boiling 20:57:33 Which means hot 20:57:35 hahaha 20:57:36 funny 20:57:38 Taneb, do all the old people tell you how all hope died the day they close t' pit 20:57:42 *closed 20:57:59 Phantom_Hoover, nah, that mainly happens in the places where there was coal 20:58:02 Taneb: in french it's probably pronounced something more like boahlee, and it can mean anything 20:58:08 that's even worse 20:58:09 We're on sandstone and sheep here 20:58:12 Over 100°? I don't think it gets that hot even in Death Valley. 20:58:16 you never had t' pit in the first place 20:58:26 It's named Death Valley after Taneb's friends. 20:58:26 or bwalee perhaps 20:58:51 Hey! No-one close to me has ever died while they were close to me! 20:59:10 so they're clustering around you for protection? 20:59:17 That would explain a lot 20:59:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:59:24 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:29 * Fiora makes a note to stay as far away from taneb as possible 20:59:44 Fiora, would you rather die and not come back? 20:59:53 I don't want to die :< 21:00:08 Do you sometimes wish you never were born at all? 21:00:28 no... ;-; 21:00:37 u-um... maybe a few times but not often or something 21:01:24 Fiora, look on the bright side, you weren't born in hexham 21:01:39 Phantom_Hoover, neither me nor elliott were actually born in Hexham 21:01:39 Hexham, California 21:02:11 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hexham%2C+Irvine%2C+Orange%2C+CA+92603 21:02:12 hth 21:02:16 *born near hexh-- wait you're from australia anyway 21:02:30 Phantom_Hoover, I was born 23 miles away from Hexham 21:02:39 (have you ever worked out where elliott lives i refuse to believe nobody in hexham has heard of him) 21:03:01 (I found one person who used to know him) 21:03:26 i thought that person knew a different elliott hird who also lived in hexham 21:03:33 (bolded for what the fuck universe) 21:03:34 No, that was someone else 21:03:44 ...the person who drowned, as it happens 21:03:49 hexh++ 21:04:02 wait what, it was facekicker who drowned?? 21:04:11 No 21:04:18 The person whose face was kicked 21:04:18 Taneb: How come you and elliott haven't met? 21:04:20 Facekickee 21:04:35 shachaf, this is what i am trying to establish 21:04:37 shachaf, an endless stream of coincidences and also elliott never goes outside ever 21:05:11 so what did the person who did know him say 21:05:19 He's a bit odd 21:05:26 how small is hexham anyway? 21:05:35 olsner, just under 12000 people 21:05:36 14,000 people iirc 21:05:50 ha the town i lived in was smaller 21:05:51 so there 21:06:00 shachaf, did elliott live ther? 21:06:00 e 21:06:06 are we stalking elliott :< 21:06:12 no but a mathematician lived there 21:06:15 does that count 21:06:23 shachaf, was that mathematician you 21:06:28 Fiora, no, we're discussing the Hexham coincidence 21:06:33 Fiora, i'm sorry do you even get how ridiculous this whole situation is 21:06:33 Do I look like a mathematician to you? 21:06:52 Anyway, I'm off to bed now 21:06:53 Goodnight 21:07:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:28:52 "The game is set in the fictitious, floating town of Hekseville --" is that also about Hexham? I'm sure that's about Hexham. 21:35:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:37:55 -!- Bike has joined. 21:49:58 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 22:11:01 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:21:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:21:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:22:49 http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2013/04/18/west_texas_fertilizer_plant_blast_map.jpg ok wow i never realised quite how stupid that layout is 22:26:54 geez, someone needs to send that zoner to go play simcity, you don't put industrial zones next to residential zones! 22:27:29 well, of late you don't put industrial zones anywhere *badum-tssh* 22:27:56 ooh that shitty joke works on multiple levels 22:36:49 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:37:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:38:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:38:44 I don't know if what my boss said about common web security practice is true, but if it is, I hate everything 22:39:13 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:39:26 what did your boss say 22:39:42 Fiora: zoning? in texas? :) 22:40:05 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:40:31 That beyond just sanitation when doing things like sending data in URLs, it's typical to validate at the controller to strip out special characters if they're known to not be present 22:40:34 In valid data 22:41:30 Valid data can always be corrupted or modified 22:41:50 But special characters should be encoded, not rejected, imo 22:42:13 Or processed by the service if the service needs to talk over the wire to something, etc. 22:43:31 rejecting "weird" data can save you when the other 200 layers of your rube goldberg web service inevitably do everything wrong 22:43:52 a shame for all the O'Somethings in the world though 22:44:08 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:44:24 Also, UriComponentsBuilder sucks 22:44:36 With a proper type system you could enforce escaping 22:45:06 AFK for a few hours; getting inducted into an honor society 22:45:10 But if you've got a large piece of software in a language where everything string-like is a string 22:45:23 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:46:51 yep, Java sucks therefore static types suck 22:46:57 MySQL sucks therefore relational databases suck 22:47:05 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:05 Python threads suck therefore all threads suck 22:48:26 what are you even responding to 22:49:00 the world 22:49:24 but also the message right before mine where FreeFull mentioned types... 22:50:37 how are you getting an x's y sucks therefore all y sucks vibe from that 22:51:42 i wasn't accusing FreeFull of having this attitude 22:52:02 i would summarize FreeFull's claim as "languages with good types could solve this problem, but they aren't used in webdev" 22:52:33 i was elaborating on why and tying it to other attitudes common in webdev communities 22:52:38 that have a similar form of overgeneralization 22:53:06 oh that does make sense 22:53:24 Haskell does get used in webdev but it's nowhere as mainstream as ruby 22:53:33 yeah 22:53:45 most programmers think of types as like, int vs. double 22:53:58 something annoying you have to write out yourself, which exists to help the machine a bit but doesn't help much in finding errors 22:54:13 I guess you could enforce escaping using objects 22:54:37 But the programmer needs to think to have a HTML object rather than just a string 22:55:15 I think libraries and APIs might not be helping out 22:55:39 indeed 22:55:56 if you have types richer than "string" then it is hard to get all the libraries on the same page about them 22:55:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:56:01 that's a big problem in the Haskell world as well 22:57:02 where there are like six JSON libraries and six conduit/pipe libraries and etc. 22:57:48 -!- Lymia has joined. 22:58:34 even String vs [Word8] vs ByteString vs Text is still a big source of impedence mismatch 22:58:38 The only problem with haskell is that the default records are an afterthought 22:59:16 that is... not the only problem with Haskell 22:59:38 I simplify things too much 23:00:09 [Word8] and ByteString seem to me like they'd be more for binary data than for text 23:00:21 yeah 23:00:33 but people are perpetually confused about the difference between binary data and text 23:00:46 also ByteString existed long before Text, aiui 23:00:59 -!- mnoqy has joined. 23:01:10 so for a while if you wanted decent performance, you would use ByteString with UTF-8 23:01:25 -!- mnoqy has changed nick to monqy. 23:01:28 or just assume that only Americans use your software 23:01:32 -!- monqy has changed nick to mnoqy. 23:02:21 And that Americans never need anything more than ASCII 23:02:35 yeah, that's not true either 23:03:03 -!- lambdabot has joined. 23:03:23 I wonder if lambdabot is getting updates 23:03:51 kmc: I still love the idea of ada-like types, like where you can say the valid ranges of a type 23:04:29 Fiora: For example? 23:04:35 yeah, I wish Haskell had that 23:04:51 "type Integer_1 is range 1 .. 10;" 23:04:56 dependently-typed languages generalize that, but maybe in a way that's not so nice to work with 23:05:04 Oh, that reminds me of Pascal 23:05:38 ada does that thing where it kind of encourages you to write code that's very well specified through its types, I think 23:05:42 a bit like haskell but maybe moreso? 23:05:52 so that it can detect logic errors at compile time more easily, and runtime too I think? 23:06:02 type Short is range -128 .. +127; 23:06:03 type Byte is mod 256; 23:06:04 wow that's cool 23:06:13 that makes... sense 23:06:33 type Color is (Red, Green, Blue); type Intensity is range 0 .. 255; 23:06:33 type Colored_Point is array (Color) of Intensity; 23:06:57 That is really similar to Pascal 23:07:38 I wonder if Pascal copied it from Ada or vice versa 23:08:25 wikipedia says Ada was developed ~1977-83, while Pascal was published in 1970? 23:08:40 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:09:11 Fiora: I don't know how much Pascal changed over time though 23:09:44 I really know almost nothing about either thoguh 23:09:55 Ada was briefly the SgeoLang 23:10:28 Ada seems really interesting though 23:12:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:18 In Pascal, in a type section you could say something like Color = (Red, Green, Blue); Intensity = 0..255; ColoredPoint = array [Red..Blue] of Intensity 23:13:36 Capitalisation optional 23:13:41 -!- augur has joined. 23:49:54 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:50:09 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:50:57 I just had the best idea, markov chain replies to phishing scams 23:52:11 if the phishers have to figure out whether they are talking to a person or not, it makes their job more difficult 23:52:45 Ada was briefly the SgeoLang 23:52:48 was it? 23:53:03 i only remember shachaf incessantly telling Sgeo he should learn it 23:53:40 (my first language was pascal. i try not to remember)