00:00:42 oerjan: are you sure you didn't mean ban me for trolling 00:00:47 i did do the dahl.net thing once remember 00:01:10 but imo dont ban me because im too cool to get banned 00:01:57 shachaf: that would be like sentencing a masochist to lashes 00:02:23 oerjan: i don't want to get banned 00:02:51 YOUR REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY WILL GET YOU NOWHERE 00:03:19 h8r 00:03:53 I'm already getting ambiguous type constraints 00:03:54 Yay 00:04:15 `run echo 'write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent' | rainwords 00:04:18 ​write a class Upcastable child parent where upcast :: child -> parent 00:04:20 imo just upcase = unsafeCoerce 00:04:34 listen to Bike 00:04:43 That's how C++ works right 00:05:23 Jafet: in C++ it's unsafeCoerce and a bit of pointer arithmetic 00:05:31 It's now complaining about overlapping instances 00:05:50 Sgeo: have you considered that you're doing bad things and you should stop 00:06:18 instance (Upcastable a b, Upcastable b c) => Upcastable a c where 00:06:21 That's the only bad thing 00:06:24 So far 00:06:26 Sgeo............................ 00:06:27 wow 00:06:29 wow. 00:07:04 * Sgeo will skip that for now 00:07:27 btw sgeo i think i'm going to have beaten you out for farmingdaleness soon 00:07:33 this school has a degree program in organic food 00:07:33 Bike: So you know what a lens is, right? 00:07:37 "I tried to write java in haskell, but it wouldn't typecheck" 00:07:45 i've heard of lensess 00:08:01 Bike: Here's a lens lens: type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 00:08:14 What's a lens do 00:08:19 -!- augur has joined. 00:08:19 focuses 00:08:23 ooh 00:08:27 Nothing I'm trying shouldn't typecheck 00:08:32 I'm not supporting downcasting 00:09:30 does Bike know more about Sgeo than instance resolution already 00:09:41 Bike: quick, tell me about the open world assumption 00:09:43 no i just like laughing at things 00:10:09 the open world assumption is that thing which is why you get errors like "No instance for (Num String)" instead of "you can't add strings together douchelord" 00:10:40 well... sort of. 00:10:55 i mean you could rephrase "No instance for Num String" as "you can't Num Strings douchelord" 00:11:02 Bike: wait you know things about Sgeo? 00:11:03 because it's assuming that maybe there could be an instance for Num String, instead of just saying "well there's no way that's possible" 00:11:11 well sort of 00:11:18 you have the basic idea down I give you 7.5/10 00:11:24 k 00:11:31 douchelord 00:11:35 lol 00:11:38 put in a bit of work and it could be 7.6/10, Bike 00:11:38 shachaf: There's also a Farmingdale near the place. It's actually called Farmingdale. 00:11:41 Thanks nooga. 00:12:00 n/p 00:12:02 i can't tell if elliott's thing was on purpose or not 00:12:03 help 00:12:21 should i assume "yes" 00:12:28 yes 00:12:54 the open elliott assumption 00:12:55 what thing 00:13:08 I like to think that this gets covariance and contravariance concrete in my head 00:13:31 well it gets some kind of concrete in your head 00:14:13 shachaf: it has to become a brainfuck derivative first 00:14:31 @pl \f a b -> f (a b) 00:14:31 (.) 00:14:32 oerjan: nobody said anything about a brick 00:14:42 or about a brain for that matter 00:14:52 okay 00:14:52 hey guys 00:15:12 hello nooga 00:15:12 i have this new idea for an esoteric programming language 00:15:23 based on gyroscopy? 00:15:28 no 00:15:47 gynoscopy 00:15:48 _;_ 00:15:59 does it have 8 commands? 00:16:01 basically it's like brainfuck bit with elliott instead of - 00:16:51 this major is literally how to be a farmer. awesome 00:17:28 hmm 00:17:47 Bike: can you get it from farmingdale 00:18:20 Bike: also: what are its poultry science buildings like. 00:18:38 no but it's a few miles south of Farmington, Washington 00:18:48 pop. 146 00:19:15 Um. 00:19:20 I think I found a GHC bug. 00:19:44 let's take bets on whether Sgeo found a ghcbug 00:19:56 Although it's in 7.4.2 so maybe it's well-known and fixed 00:20:04 what is the bug 00:20:20 oh, 7.4.2 00:20:36 Something about irrefutable pattern failed 00:20:40 http://ideone.com/wAuRUq 00:21:03 I see ideone upgraded their GHC 00:21:06 i like those extensions. 00:21:19 Oh, maybe that is a GHC bug. 00:21:19 Oh, I should get rid of OverlappingInstances 00:21:33 It didn't even help the one that was complaining about overlapping whatever 00:21:41 It's fixed in 7.6 00:21:50 The bug is in this line: 00:21:51 instance (Upcastable c1 p1, Upcastable c2 p2) => (p1 -> c2) -> (c1 -> p2) where 00:22:02 Please note that (->) is not a type class. 00:22:13 ...derp 00:22:31 danm 00:22:56 but what if it was 00:23:16 -XWhatIf 00:23:44 oh, this paper is cool. 00:24:07 is it the paper about making reals without making rationals 00:24:45 thshachaf 00:25:08 sgeo's thing seems like it could have a more comprehensible error, though. 00:25:18 yes that's what was fixed in 7.6 00:25:23 hooray! 00:25:27 Bike: no but that paper sounds cool too, link 00:25:32 i mean i can think of ways to do it. 00:25:35 also it's probably classical and awful. 00:25:40 Bike, it is a GHC bug. The error is not supposed to be about irrefutable patterns being broken in compiler code 00:25:42 but link anyway. 00:25:45 Bike: R is just the power set of N hth 00:25:54 (this one is Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad by Nils Anders Danielsson.) 00:26:24 http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0405454 00:26:32 Nils Anders Danielsson 00:26:44 is he all done with writing fairy tales? 00:27:03 it has plenty of category theoryy stuff in it iirc 00:27:11 though maybe i'm being confused with how i was reading about adjoints later 00:27:14 @pl \f c -> uc (f (uc c)) 00:27:14 (uc .) . (. uc) 00:27:33 Bike: i heard they were legal in washington now 00:27:39 @pl \f c -> uc (f (uc1 c)) 00:27:39 (uc .) . (. uc1) 00:27:45 damn straight. 00:27:53 anyway category theory more like bad theory right 00:28:05 more like theory that is stupid and dumb 00:28:24 you sure showed 'em Bike 00:28:31 "Dairy Cattle Management Laboratory" is a class. 00:28:38 :t listFromMaybe 00:28:40 Bike: wow this looks like a paper I might actually understand. 00:28:40 Not in scope: `listFromMaybe' 00:28:40 Perhaps you meant `listToMaybe' (imported from Data.Maybe) 00:28:46 elliott: weird huh 00:28:57 Bike: it's an uncommon occurrence :( 00:28:59 :t maybeToList 00:29:01 Maybe a -> [a] 00:29:10 does that really exist 00:29:16 elliott: being dumb and stupid is suffering. 00:29:24 > maybeToList (Just 437) 00:29:26 [437] 00:29:28 also, suffering is stupid and dumb 00:29:30 yes. hell yes 00:29:40 > Foldable.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:29:41 Not in scope: `Foldable.toList' 00:29:42 dude the real numbers = just the powerset of the natural numbers 00:29:43 > F.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:29:45 Not in scope: `F.toList' 00:29:45 Perhaps you meant one of these: 00:29:45 `S.toList' (im... 00:29:50 good job elliott. 00:29:57 shachaf: how are you going to define arithmetic on that nicely exactly 00:30:00 > Data.Foldable.toList (Just 437) -- the true way to write it 00:30:02 shachaf: That doesn't involve the word "Eudoxus" though. 00:30:02 [437] 00:30:04 elliott: i don't need to 00:30:19 > listToMaybe [437,0] 00:30:20 Just 437 00:30:21 elliott: don't you know how maths work 00:30:25 good typing 00:30:47 this guy's email is at lemma-one.com 00:30:51 that is a very yellow site. 00:31:02 holy shit, ow 00:31:06 oh that site is maintained by the person who wrote this. I get the feeling this guy might not be a Real Mathematician™ 00:31:18 hey, hey. ProofPower - a suite of tools for specification and proof in HOL and Z; also the Compliance Tool for specifying and verifying Ada programs. 00:31:21 Get on that sgeo. 00:31:25 elliott: You mean a crank? 00:31:25 as MCALLISTER Keegan used to say: what's yellow &c 00:31:40 Bike: also wait aren't you like a biologist. how do you know about this paper. I am suspicious 00:31:46 http://lemma-one.com/email.gif 00:31:52 Bike is a biologist??????????????????????????????????? 00:32:02 a wannabe biologist 00:32:07 Magnitudes are said to be in the same ratio, the first to the second 00:32:07 and the third to the fourth, when, if any equimultiples whatever are taken 00:32:07 of the first and third, and any equimultiples whatever of the second and 00:32:07 fourth, the former equimultiples alike exceed, are alike equal to, or alike 00:32:07 fall short of, the latter equimultiples respectively taken in corresponding 00:32:09 order. 00:32:10 most people i know are mathers though 00:32:12 Euclid. Elements of Geometry. Book V. Definition 5. 00:32:14 i forgot how fucking unreadable the Elements are 00:32:47 haha yeah i have that God Created the Integers book and the Elements are like "a line is a thing between two points" or whatever and it's like well... okay... 00:33:03 elliott: you think that's unreadable, try it in greek 00:33:21 but seriously, I think mathematical biology is Pretty Cool and just like math by itself anyway. 00:33:32 maybe i just like reading shit i barley understand. barley understand. barley 00:34:04 pretty sure mathematical biology cannot be a true mathematic just going by the name prove me wrong 00:34:21 elliott: is "a mathematic" what "a math" stands for 00:34:23 kolmogorov half invented it 00:34:25 qed 00:34:38 ok that's pretty good but who invented the other half 00:34:38 shachaf: no, math stands for a spelling error 00:34:46 a mathematique 00:34:46 elliott: not "math", "a math" 00:34:52 shachaf: i dunno probably lotka 00:34:53 as in one math, multiple maths 00:34:56 bah 00:35:08 kolmogorov was a weird dude. well, probably. I know nothing about him 00:35:17 I try to use upcast, now it's saying it wants incoherent instances 00:35:20 he was gay that's "pretty weird" everybody around me says 00:35:34 Sgeo: someone here is being incoherent 00:35:35 also a mega genius so probably crazy. 00:35:52 kolmogorov was the best 00:37:02 hey what does kolya stand for 00:37:09 i heard he loved to ski naked:) 00:37:15 oh it stands for nikolay 00:37:16 represent R by the 00:37:17 sequence of integers in which the m-th term, Rm say, gives the number of columns 00:37:19 to the left of or in line with the m-th railing in the figure. This sequence Rm will 00:37:20 Techniques in semen handling, insemination, and pregnancy detection in cattle. 00:37:22 represent R. 00:37:30 wow such wastefulness, should clearly replace every element with it subtracted from the previous one 00:37:45 I don't quite follow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay 00:37:52 Nikolay or Nikolai is an East Slavic variant of the feminine name Nicola, meaning "Goat Whisperer." It may refer to: 00:38:02 then there's a long list of people named nikolay 00:38:04 then 00:38:04 Nikolai Aleksandrovich or Nikolay Aleksandrovich (Russian: Николай Александрович), ofter shortened Nicolay or Nicolai without the patronymic Aleksandrovich, is a Russian male given name. It may refer to: 00:38:13 and a long list of people named nikolai aleksandrovich 00:38:21 what's special about the patronym aleksandrovich 00:38:28 it's popular i guess 00:39:44 https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/57f20df5698a128b4411 00:40:05 elon musk is going to read this as part of a letter that will decide if I am to be hired at spacex 00:40:21 Nice. 00:40:31 I think my IRC bot is impressive enough to mention (and in line with the kind of problem solving they want to see), but I have to say 'brainfuck' to a recruiter if I mention it 00:40:39 Does spacex use wacky verification stuff like NASA 00:40:54 I bet you could make some shit up about brainfuck being easy to reason about 00:40:56 what is wacky verification stuff 00:40:58 Sgeo: imo just port it to some derivative with a less offensive name 00:41:04 s/geo/irCmpwn/ 00:41:09 if you're worried about that 00:41:09 like braintrust. 00:41:15 brainsex 00:41:20 there once was a fish named fred 00:41:28 you'll have to extend it with a mechanism for output (or was it input) 00:42:28 Bike: hm I wonder how well this construction goes constructively. 00:42:38 You would! 00:42:57 Maybe you could set up some rules about where rails can be. 00:43:01 elliott: well it's a construction soooooo ................... 00:43:31 Bike: does this paper show e.g. how to define pi and such 00:43:42 no. 00:43:52 SirCmpwn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPIN_model_checker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Pathfinder that sort of stuff 00:44:01 SPIN is cool 00:44:09 i took a class from the main SPIN guy 00:44:26 wat 00:44:31 Bike: I'm upset. 00:44:39 I'm sorry. 00:44:46 Maybe you could stop being upset. 00:44:51 SirCmpwn: re: wacky verification stuff 00:45:24 oh, that stuff 00:45:28 maybe for rocket-grade software 00:45:32 but that's not what I'd be working on there 00:45:36 elliott: pi is the ratio of the length of the circumference of a circle to twice the length of the radius of a circle hth 00:45:59 isn't elon musk crazy 00:46:02 or was that the other guy 00:46:08 their space-grade software run on Linux, though, so if it's good enough for linux, it's good enough for them 00:46:31 wow, they trust rockets to Linux? 00:46:36 must have never looked at the code 00:46:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:46:55 Well the ISS uses Windows. 00:47:04 Nikolay or Nikolai is an East Slavic variant of the feminine name Nicola, meaning "Goat Whisperer." It may refer to: <-- that's vandalism, i've reverted it. in the process realizing you _can_ undo a row of edits simultaneously now... 00:47:39 oerjan: oh i wasn't talking about that part 00:47:44 "I don't have an issue with serving in the military per se, but serving in the South African army suppressing black people just didn't seem like a really good way to spend time" 00:47:46 Bike: not for the actual super duper important stuff I'd assume 00:47:47 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/12/drone_consoles_linux_switch/ 00:47:58 elliott: well nah. 00:48:21 "Musk went on to a graduate program in both applied physics and materials science at Stanford in 1995. He stayed two days before dropping out to start Zip2, which provided online content publishing software for news organisations," 00:49:08 ok I think it was another paypal founder who was completely crazy. 00:49:24 Musk had plans for a "Mars Oasis" project in 2001, which would land a miniature experimental greenhouse on Mars, containing food crops growing on Martian regolith. 00:49:33 Oh, you mean the one who wanted to found the place from Bioshock? 00:49:56 how about the one who wrestled on the floor 00:49:59 or did they all do that 00:50:01 right that one. 00:50:04 same one I think. 00:50:10 also the weird misogynist I think? 00:50:29 so is elon musk also an obnoxious libertarian 00:50:29 hm this other paypal guy was a producer of Thank You For Smoking, I can't hate that 00:50:30 well aren't most people? 00:50:38 like peter thiel 00:50:56 right peter thiel was the one 00:50:58 ah okay Thiel's the bioshock guy 00:51:35 ok musk seems like a decent guy. or at least I see no evidence to suggest otherwise 00:51:38 peter thiel said that letting women vote was the biggest political catastrophe of the 20th century, or something 00:51:43 except for founding a company with peter thiel I guess? 00:51:45 because it means that libertarianism won't automatically win always 00:51:49 ok i want to hear the explanation behind that 00:51:56 also I guess paypal is kind of evil but I suppose that probably came later 00:52:02 "The Diversity Myth" oh, well, 00:52:15 is that the article about how great it was that PayPal was 100% male bros from stanford 00:52:26 no it's a fucking entire book 00:52:27 and they would wrestle with each other to settle arguments? 00:52:28 oh 00:52:36 "The Diversity Myth: 'Multiculturalism' and the Politics of Intolerance at Stanford" 00:52:45 welp 00:52:46 The 'Diversity' Myth 00:52:46 pretty sure you can fill in the synopsis yourself 00:53:04 got a negative review from Condaleeza Rice, lol 00:53:11 whose name i can't spell 00:53:49 Hyperloop is a hypothetical mode of high-speed transportation proposed by inventor and SpaceX founder Elon Musk. Musk has envisioned the system as a 'fifth mode' of transportation, an alternative to boats, planes, cars and trains.[1] The system would, in theory, be able to travel from downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes.[2] 00:55:02 oh, thiel also helped with Thank you for smoking. guess i can hate that. 00:55:18 that was a good movie though :< 00:55:56 Huh it was made by William Buckley's son! 00:55:58 at least I remember it being good 00:56:01 I didn't know htat. 00:56:04 Yeah, I liked the movie too. 00:56:16 i'm sure peter thiel has done at least one thing I like even if he is a douchebag 00:56:20 that's life 00:56:42 elliott: the optimist in me would imagine that as a book about colleges seeking superficial diversity while ignoring the hard things (e.g. class) so they end up with a bunch of ""diverse"" suburban upper-middle-class kids 00:56:46 but I'm guesing that isn't it 00:56:49 *guessing 00:56:51 hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too 00:57:00 he painted pictures? 00:57:02 he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:57:06 oh! he killed hitler 00:57:06 his paintings are kind of shitty 00:57:06 omg are we having a go at libertarians 00:57:07 they weren't very good pictures 00:57:10 oh yeah, there we go 00:57:12 thanks Fiora 00:57:13 that's one thing he did that was good, right 00:57:14 he killed hitler 00:57:18 so he wasn't all bad was he 00:57:19 i haven't had a good libertarian bashing for like a week 00:57:24 he also killed the guy who killed hitler 00:57:31 yeah that's right, i'm stealing a joke from a youtube comment. 00:57:36 unlike the rest of us, Phantom_Hoover is referring to literal bashing. 00:57:36 ... that's true. that's pretty bad 00:57:45 a side-project to unwind from all the brainfuck derivative brainbricking 00:58:05 `addquote hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:58:09 (please read that in your head without a hint of sarcasm) 00:58:09 1008) hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 00:58:30 kmc: it's gonna be great when your future employer finds the #esoteric quote database 00:59:04 `quote kmc 00:59:05 597) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 628) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 699) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 702) has there been any work towards designing programming l 00:59:10 Bike: secretly I steal all my jokes from youtube comments 00:59:14 wow that's pretty hireable 00:59:31 i kind of want to hire him and i'm not even an employer 00:59:46 hey kmc can i hire you 00:59:48 thankfully 702 cut off just before the reference to illicit activities 00:59:51 i pay in tosanini's burnt caramel ice cream 00:59:57 toscanini's 01:00:11 shachaf: i want ice cream now 01:00:13 god dammit 01:00:38 elliott: imo come to Mid-Cambridge, MA and have yourself some burnt caramel ice cream from toscanini's 01:01:21 `addquote hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas oh! he killed hitler oh yeah, there we go thanks Fiora he also killed the guy who killed hitler 01:01:24 1009) hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas oh! he killed hitler oh yeah, there we go thanks Fiora he also killed the guy who killed hitler 01:01:25 eh 01:01:34 (maybe?) 01:01:36 is there anything interesting in cambridge 01:01:39 `delquote 1008 01:01:43 ​*poof* hm hitler probably did one thing that I like too he banned tubas, I guess I am neutral on tubas 01:01:45 usurped 01:02:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:02:21 01:55:42 Do you prefer burnt caramel ice cream or salted caramel ice cream? 01:02:24 01:55:57 dolio: salted hth 01:02:27 shachaf are you advertising the inferior ice cream to me. 01:02:39 elliott: 01:02:45 17:57 dolio: I was at Toscanini's in Jan 2012 and I had burnt caramel ice cream! 01:02:48 17:58 I was looking forward to it and then disappointed. 01:02:49 17:58 I guess I don't like burnt things very much? :-( 01:02:54 wow. 01:02:56 you wanted to disappoint me. 01:03:01 17:58 It's delicious. 01:03:05 isn't burnt caramel basically... caramel. 01:03:08 the real qustion is who do you trust 01:03:10 dolio or me 01:06:27 Sgeo: You're abusing type classes. Stop it. 01:06:50 I abuse norns, I abuse type classes 01:06:58 caramel is basically burnt sugar 01:07:06 some kind of psychopath but actually just kind of sad to watch 01:07:08 oerjan: hence my confusion. 01:07:09 listen to oerjan 01:07:18 you think you can only burn something once? 01:07:22 burn sugar, it becomes caramel 01:07:29 burn caramel, it becomes burnt caramel 01:07:44 erie and burnt 01:08:51 what happens if you burn burnt caramel 01:08:59 charcoal. 01:09:35 if you freeze burnt caramel you get burnt caramel ice cream hth 01:09:37 `quote charcoal 01:09:38 29) is there a problem with it being carbonized :D yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal" 01:17:01 wait jackalopes aren't real? 01:17:12 you lived in washington and didn't know that? 01:17:32 Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:17:41 Bike: i never knew exactly what they were :'( 01:18:51 `addquote Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:18:54 1009) Bike: oh huh. addition is really easy. 01:19:37 elliott: well i mean it stands to reason addition would be easy 01:19:51 after all..................... 01:20:01 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 01:20:21 multiplication looks harder though. your theory needs work 01:20:34 Bike: help, this paper makes me want to write it out in Coq instead of doing things I want to do instead 01:20:43 like maybe learn Idris, or read that Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad paper. 01:20:56 elliott: imo finish the category theory thing instead? 01:21:30 that's work 01:22:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:25:14 Bike: oh, this bounded range thing is gross. 01:29:36 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:30:12 Bike: there is the third option of doing some kind of dependent lens thing. 01:34:24 thank god for grossness 01:41:42 -!- monqy has joined. 01:51:29 Bike: ok i lied this is the worst 01:51:31 lied by 01:51:33 not lynig 01:51:35 osdfjk 01:51:49 worst is pretty bad 01:52:11 is it worse than #haskell 01:57:34 whats this 01:58:08 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 01:58:17 http://arxiv.org/abs/math/0405454, monqy 01:58:38 ah 01:59:03 its bikes fault 01:59:11 if you link me to anything i have to write it in coq 01:59:15 wow Bike stop being bad 01:59:26 link me to poems? those are going to end up being coq 01:59:36 elliott: http://slbkbs.org/categ.hs 01:59:40 link me to a picture of a cat? it's actually a picture of a rooster 01:59:49 shachaf: fuck you 02:00:07 remember that "paper thing" about that thing the one with division by zero 02:00:19 and the guy who did it was in here 02:00:31 oh man i remember that 02:00:34 link elliott to it 02:00:34 wow this isnt quackery!! im going to kill you for libel monqy 02:00:51 Wait shit, you got the phi dude in here? 02:00:59 or whatever he called his stupid... everything 02:01:06 nullity dude? no this is diff. 02:01:16 oh but i liked nullity :( (no i didn't) 02:01:25 elliott: i figured as much but i was just reminded 02:01:26 it awast nd idnvisision bey zero btw 02:01:37 British computer scientist's new "nullity" idea provokes reaction from mathematicians 02:01:40 good title 02:02:05 british computer scientist discovers 1 weird old trick 02:02:11 wasn't that the thing that was just NaN 02:02:23 we're talking about a different thing noW!! 02:02:39 btw does britain actually exist i think not 02:02:40 kmc: lose 15 epsilons in 3 weeks with this one weird old trick 02:02:56 ugh but tao actually has a post on "epsilon management" 02:03:10 elliott: wasnt it construction of the arithmetic's or something with the goal or something of hating division by zero and you dont want that 02:03:28 so they reinvent the construction of the rationals but make it insane 02:03:32 Bike: well does erdős have one 02:03:34 and use weird terminology 02:03:34 oh that guy 02:03:34 monqy: well it was a bit different 02:03:38 it rejected 0 itself instead 02:03:39 i remember that guy 02:03:45 something about "losing information" 02:03:47 :D 02:03:48 hey remember that "paper thing" with the proof that the reals were countable 02:04:00 was that in here or in another channel 02:04:08 elliott: oh right 02:04:12 it was weird for me when people started making 1 weird old trick jokes because like 02:04:17 i just assume the adverts i see are for my eyes only 02:04:20 everyone else gets different ones 02:04:20 shachaf: I don't think that was here, but it sounds hilarious. 02:04:40 well have u ever seen an uncountable real 02:04:42 with ur own eyes 02:04:47 good point 02:04:53 i assume the exact number of tricks and the various adjectives which apply to them were determined by an iterative optimization procedure 02:06:12 Bike: you need to look through the perspex machine 02:06:23 was that the nullity guy? 02:06:44 «James Anderson is an academic staff "member" in the School of Systems Engineering at the University of Reading, England.» i'm glad i looked this up 02:07:01 Bike: well does erdős have one <-- erdős used the word "epsilon" for children hth 02:07:08 oerjan: that's what i meant hth 02:07:12 oh i remember this 02:07:15 oerjan: erdős invented that? 02:07:18 all my friends do that 02:07:31 everyone i know who's talked about it says it's erdős 02:07:36 erdos invented basically everything euler didn't i thought 02:07:45 erdós 02:07:53 erdøs 02:08:03 erd¤s 02:08:03 "Perspex Machine V: Compilation of C Programs" 02:08:06 €rdös 02:08:11 hey remember that "paper thing" with the proof that the reals were countable <-- those are a dime a dozen, see the good math, bad math blog (the bad section) 02:08:11 I think I thought of a way to get my thing to work, but it's sort of horrible 02:08:18 kmc: how do you make ő with compose 02:08:20 Sgeo: is there a way that isnt horrible 02:08:25 oerjan: I mean a specific one. 02:08:26 Multi_key = o 02:08:26 -!- augur has joined. 02:08:32 Erdővision 02:08:32 A class of NonFunctions, and a separate manually written instance of interesting types 02:08:33 ő_ő 02:08:37 thx 02:08:39 kmc++ 02:08:45 :D 02:08:51 W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. 02:08:57 elliott : "ő" U0151 # LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DOUBLE ACUTE 02:09:02 HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO HELP ME 02:09:03 ＷＡＲＮＩＮＧ 02:09:14 er, with less elliott 02:09:20 Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. 02:09:23 It literally says that 02:09:26 isn't it great that Ｉ doesn't show up at all in my font 02:09:37 also it's... written in poplog... for some reason 02:10:13 vars transarith = true; 02:10:19 `addquote W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. It literally says that 02:10:23 1010) W A R N I N G. This source code follows transcomplex computational paths, even where more accurate, real, computational paths exist. Y O U H A V E B E E N W A R N E D. It literally says that 02:10:57 well i mean there's more 02:11:02 if you want to read two paragraphs of nonsense 02:11:18 if I didn't want to read two paragraphs of nonsense, would I be in this channel? 02:11:24 kmc stole my joke 02:11:31 define isstrictlytransreal(num); lvars num; num == nuly or num == pinf or num == ninf enddefine; 02:11:31 imo he has a mind reading device hooked up to my brain 02:11:56 nulynulynulynuly 02:11:59 i actually am not sure what language this is? i thought it was prolog but i guessnot 02:12:09 its error routine is called "mishap" 02:12:11 hahan uly 02:12:17 it's the elder tongue 02:12:32 haha 02:12:39 Return a transreal number given the numerator and denominator. Irrational numbers conventionally have denominator d = 1. 02:12:44 v. british 02:12:52 fatal error function is "cock-up" 02:13:53 I really love that "cock-up" is considered a normal and non-vulgar british phrase 02:14:04 so you get BBC headlines like "MoD helicopter fiasco a 'gold standard cock-up'" 02:14:09 Bike: is this pseudocode or 02:14:17 Bike: not that it makes a difference.... 02:14:40 Real arithmetic obeys the trichotomy axiom: a number can be greater than, equal to, or less than zero. But transreal arithmetic obeys the quadrachotomy axiom: a number can be nullity or else it can be greater than, equal to, or less than zero. 02:14:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cockup 02:14:59 imo tetrachotomy sounds cooler 02:15:03 monqy: it's formatted like real code and mentions poplog which has like nine languages in it? 02:15:22 I had to go for a quadrachotomy once 02:15:22 kmc: haha wow 02:15:33 hey it has infix precedence things 02:15:34 poplog isn't prolog it's poplog(??????????????????????????????????????) 02:15:36 maybe it's haskell! 02:16:04 i dunno it doesn't look like ML either 02:16:06 Bike: prolog has that too 02:16:14 oh it's in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POP-11 02:16:21 Poplog is a reflective, incrementally compiled software development environment for the programming languages POP-11, Common Lisp, Prolog, and Standard ML, originally created in the UK for teaching and research in artificial intelligence at the University of Sussex. 02:16:39 what 02:16:41 define 7 ##= (num1, num2); 02:16:54 you got some kinda problem with COWSEL kmc 02:17:01 thanks now i know what 7 means 02:17:35 this whole long thing of code is literally just to add 0/0 and 1/0 and -1/0 i hate everything 02:18:04 is there anything special about pop-11 or is it just this crazy guy being crazy 02:18:14 Consider the untyped λ-calculus with a countably infinite set of 02:18:14 constants c: 02:18:14 t ::= c | x | λx.t | t1 t2 02:18:14 Closed terms written in this language can compute to a value (a 02:18:14 constant c or a closure λx.tρ), but they can also go wrong (crash) 02:18:14 Bike why are you reading things of code 02:18:16 or fail to terminate. 02:18:28 shachaf: because i'm sure as fuck not gonna read his papers 02:18:29 this paper is stretching my suspension of disbelief a bit with the notion that these programs can crash. 02:18:43 elliott: well, constants 02:18:52 elliott: what happens if i do "4 5" huh!! 02:18:55 monqy: what's wrong with constants???????????????? 02:18:56 that's right CRASH 02:18:59 Bike: whats 4, whats 5 02:19:00 cf bike 02:19:02 monqy: it never says they're crashy!! 02:19:03 constants 02:19:06 oh 02:19:07 elliott: -roll- 02:19:10 i guess applying them makes sense as a crash 02:19:16 the great thing about constants is that there are so many of them to choose from 02:19:18 i would have assumed 4 5 is just `inert' 02:19:23 you treat them as `primitives' or w/e 02:19:24 well 02:19:27 that's what a crash is 02:19:29 Imo Its Ambiguous™ 02:19:39 ok wait back up 02:19:40 crashing is when you get stuck 02:19:45 since when do you call a lambda abstraction a "closure" 02:19:47 imo its not a crash to do something like that...... because you dont say the program is Wrong necessarily 02:19:49 Thank You Operational Semantics 02:19:54 > 4 5 02:19:58 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 02:19:59 imo you're stuck 02:20:00 and also suck 02:20:03 thanks haskell 02:20:14 FURTHERMORE: dumb; bad 02:20:17 youre stuck when you cant make a transition 02:20:21 > 4 5 02:20:23 4 02:20:26 elliott: crush... Qed. 02:20:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:20:56 what style of operatiaonal semantics is this 02:21:17 if it's with a `partiality monad` it's probably big step? 02:21:26 It might be better to separate type checking from from number set membership. For example, 2 is a member of the real, transreal, complex, and transcomplex numbers; but it has builtin type integer and polymorphically real. A purist would keep the builtin real and complex types distinct, but many languages promote real to complex. Types are a 02:21:31 language issue and need to be resolved for each individual language. 02:21:57 um 02:22:11 im so confused 02:23:03 monqy: Operational Semantics Using the Partiality Monad 02:23:07 by Nils Anders Danielsson 02:23:15 imo Bike should do a writeup on the wiki 02:23:18 no im confused about bike's thing 02:23:27 no that was 02:23:31 answering your QUESTIOn gOSH! 02:23:56 Transrithmetical 02:24:20 looks like this is in AGDA ~uh oh~ 02:24:21 i need to look up who published this shithead though 02:24:55 -!- augur has joined. 02:25:20 "Proceedings of SPIE offer access to the latest innovations in research and technology and are among the most cited references in patent literature." 02:25:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:26:19 monqy: Nils Anders Danielsson is An Agda Guye 02:26:27 is that a legit conf or one of those drug fronts that'll accept just about anything even scigen 02:26:30 i think he wrote the agda stdlib 02:26:30 even scigen 02:26:44 SCIE seems sorta legit 02:26:54 except that he was presenting this at a fucking vision conference 02:26:57 monqy: how many drug fronts have you published in 02:27:03 did you get many drugs 02:27:22 and some AI thing 02:27:23 none yet! 02:27:44 not ready for the drugs yet 02:28:06 just say Nothing (programmer joke :-)) 02:28:49 cute, this defines a big step relation for terminating computations, a relation for nonterminating computations, and a relation for crashing computations 02:29:39 HIRD Elliott: hi 02:29:40 only to tear down the relations :-O 02:29:41 the only big step ive ever seen either only defines semantics for terminating stuff or it's defined coinductively.... 02:30:00 BEN-KIKI Shachaf: what 02:30:28 was elliott called ehird because he was super into HIRD 02:30:41 HIRD Elliott: Are you going to do the category thing? 02:30:51 are you going to continue addressing me as HIRD Elliott 02:31:02 Should I stop? 02:31:14 it seems moderately pointless 02:31:35 So's this channel? 02:35:14 I decided to leave the text about my brainfuck bot in place 02:35:23 I tweaked it to only say "brainfuck" once, and in quotes 02:35:55 I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parenthesis, capital letters, quotated, read the following words: 02:35:59 a language related to P'' called "brain fuck" 02:36:48 (“KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?”) 02:37:32 quotated 02:37:55 Bike haven't you heard Alice's Restaurant 02:38:02 nope 02:38:31 imo go listen?? 02:38:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjKF7aQthcQ 02:38:49 kmc can confirm that imo go listen 02:39:46 23 minute song 02:39:49 this can't possibly be bad 02:39:54 "North Korea seen moving missile after it declares it has given approval for a nuclear attack on the United States" 02:40:04 good idea north korea 02:40:06 tell me more 02:40:29 this song has guitar so shachaf probably hates it 02:40:33 north korean rockets not working correctly, mysterious large package of "cake" arrives addressed toseoul 02:43:33 shachaf: apparently this is a decades-later re-recording of the original from a decades-later re-recording of the album it originally appeared on, and now I'm sitting here trying to figure out why anyone would bother doing such a thing 02:43:40 thank you for the bewilderment. 02:44:00 elliott: well have you heard the song 02:44:09 i bet MicheleZ5 is a spam account 02:44:21 shachaf: i have not 02:44:25 also HugoMDZ 02:44:56 haha the singer endorsed ron paul 02:45:27 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:45:32 well everyone is endorsing ron paul these days. even fish 02:45:33 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:47:26 elliott: north korea will make such a nice radioactive glass desert, don't you think 02:47:43 :( 02:49:36 does un endorse ron paul? 02:49:52 the UN endorses ron paul yes 02:50:36 sorry: Kim Jong-un 02:50:48 So's this channel? <-- HEY WE HAVE STRICT RULES ABOUT WHAT KIND OF POINTLESS STUFF IS ALLOWED HERE, SIR 02:51:02 oerjan: What are the rules? 02:51:34 juche: a libertarian perspective 02:52:04 bike XD 02:52:38 shachaf: I'M SORRY, THAT POINTLESS QUESTION IS FORBIDDEN BY THE RULES 02:52:51 Personally Im a fan of poin-free programming 02:53:22 so I don't think you should restrict the discussion to only pointful languages 02:58:21 indeed, pointless languages are among the things allowed to discuss here 02:58:34 shocking, i know 03:01:37 oerjan: (\xs -> What are the xs?) rules 03:02:09 one thing that bugs me is how often we have to name intermediate values just so we can reuse them, 03:03:11 doesthiswork: yeah that's why they added \case to recent ghc haskell 03:03:25 (i think that was the finally decided syntax?) 03:04:36 shachaf: YOUR QUESTION IS BETA-EQUIVALENT TO A FORBIDDEN QUESTION 03:05:39 (\w -> What are the w?) rules 03:16:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:18:44 the heck is /case 03:18:48 \case rather 03:19:49 \case pats -> \v -> case v of pats for fresh v 03:19:52 er 03:19:58 that first -> is a big ol ==> desugaring arrow 03:20:16 ==========>>>>>>> 03:21:36 oh so you can do like \case 0 -> 1; n -> n * fact (n-1) or whatever 03:21:52 yes 03:22:03 wow I feel like I need a fun fact about this feature. 03:22:05 how's about it shachaf. 03:22:46 ~_~ 03:23:29 fun fact 0 = 1 03:23:53 uh shachaf. 03:23:55 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 03:24:05 that doesn't use the feature. 03:24:07 Bike: it's particularly useful for chaining with >>= 03:24:11 it's not even haskell in fact. 03:24:20 Bike: it's just a fun fact hth 03:24:25 It's not but i expect shahaf to innovate through that,elliott. 03:24:32 He's an innovator. It's what he does. He innovates. 03:24:45 tear down walls 03:24:46 wait omg 03:24:48 i said in fact 03:24:49 build bigger, stronger walls 03:24:51 go me for making a joke by mistake 03:24:55 elliott. 03:24:59 no. 03:25:10 elliott: i saw that but it was bad so i didn't comment 03:25:13 go you for commenting 03:26:42 main = getArgs >>= (\case [fname] -> readFile fname; [] -> getContents) >>= putStr 03:27:17 although the parentheses are a bit naff 03:27:23 are you trying to be british 03:27:41 getArgs >>= $ \case [fname] ... $ >>= putStr i'm sure this will work. 03:27:45 i thought "ugly" first, but that's not quite it 03:27:49 Bike: nope 03:27:57 D:!!! 03:30:41 oerjan: Sadly, not quite cat. 03:30:46 :) 03:31:35 main = do getArgs >>= \case [fname] -> readFile fname; [] -> getContents 03:31:42 >>= putStr 03:31:52 * oerjan whistles innocently 03:32:18 main = do do do getArgs >>= ... 03:32:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUyyHYkBHk 03:32:55 shachaf: it was just to get rid of the parentheses 03:33:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 03:33:38 main = don't 03:34:07 main = getArgs >>= f >>= putStr where f [x] = readFile x;f [] = getContents 03:34:08 :) 03:34:50 now that's just crazy talk 03:34:56 pikhq: um the whole point here is to use \case to avoid making up names for more things than necessary 03:35:05 Bah. 03:35:14 an Important Readability Extension 03:35:48 Readability Of Functional Languages 03:35:59 lmao 03:36:06 * pikhq summons Pointfree Man 03:37:06 There should be a conference on esolang research 03:37:11 it can be called ROFL 03:37:50 Research on fringe languages 03:38:29 it can be a working group at http://sigbovik.org/ 03:39:09 does esolang have a sigbovik affiliation; if not why not 03:39:24 http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/mainlogo.png haha yes. 03:39:49 nice 03:39:50 AND a mustard watch reference 03:39:56 Fiora: http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/graph13.png 03:40:05 what is mustard watches 03:40:24 http://iml.univ-mrs.fr/~girard/mustard/page1.html 03:40:27 something that one linear logic guy came up with 03:40:42 it's a pretty obscure satire about nonclassical logics 03:40:52 more importantly, it involves http://sigbovik.org/2013/images/graph7.png 03:41:15 haha 03:41:25 not sure i get the satire but I appreciate the surrealism 03:42:00 basically people saying "what if we had a logic that let you do everything classical did PLUS GAVE YOU MUSTARD" i think 03:42:08 ok 03:42:12 iunno i'm shit at logic 03:42:14 put a bird on it 03:43:14 hm the business school is hilariously buzzwordy is that normal 03:43:23 whose business school 03:43:42 None of your business school 03:43:42 none of your business school hth 03:43:43 "CB graduates lead insightfully by skillfully applying core business competencies, employing a global perspective, and embracing diversity" 03:43:48 Jafet........................ 03:43:54 Jafet++ 03:43:56 I stole his mind reader. 03:44:10 Bike: but do they leverage things 03:44:15 According to the logs Jafet posted it first. :-( 03:44:24 my irc client begs to differ 03:44:33 shachaf: Only from the subjective point of view of the logger. 03:44:40 hm i'm seeing driving butnot leveraging 03:44:51 i saw "leverage" used as a transitive verb to refer to actually physically using a lever on an object 03:44:57 that was a weird full circle moment 03:45:01 begs to differ? is she even in version control? 03:45:12 * ion fullcircles kmc 03:45:25 \circ 03:46:02 also the business school's blurb is about how they have wifi everywhere and nice dorms or whatever, where all the other ones maybe mention their new labs 03:47:27 i think i've missed some context 03:47:43 dude they have an entrepeneurship program. 03:47:50 you can major in being an entrepeneur 03:49:51 -!- augur has joined. 03:50:15 everyone has that 03:50:58 where do you think all the "idea people" just looking for a "technical co-founder" come from 03:51:23 i thought they all dropped out of college to found dogbook. 03:53:25 is that... facebook for dogs 03:53:32 yes 03:53:48 not as good as my 'facebook for kitchen appliances' idea 03:53:51 if you have a better go-to stereotypical bullshit startup i'd be happy to hear it 03:54:01 dude that's like, twenty syllables! i ain't got time for that shit. 03:54:28 well these days it's all about gamifyinfg the mobile, social, local apps 03:55:14 foursquare + halo 04:01:47 apparently SCVNGR has more or less shut down and LevelUp is in dire straits 04:02:36 maybe I shouldn't take joy in the failings of others, but their founder is a consummate douchenozzle 04:03:24 howso 04:03:35 http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/02/seth-priebatsch-the-ayn-rand-loving-feet-baring-efficiency-obsessed-savant-behind-scvngr/ http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/business/19entre.html?pagewanted=all 04:03:57 hm i'm just gonna stop at that url 04:03:59 Bike: I like "that one linear logic guy" 04:04:11 elliott: you knew who i meant didn't you 04:04:13 i like the part in the first article where he brags about stealing services from MIT and then in the same breath says that MIT students are lazy fatasses 04:04:16 well, like, he sort of invented it 04:04:21 exactly 04:04:36 on the other hand there is apparently a person named Guy who does linear logic so searching "linear logic guy" doesn't really work 04:04:41 hahaha 04:06:59 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 04:08:14 wow, coinduction is a fucking pain to work with. 04:09:02 what are you useing it for? 04:10:03 -!- Bike has joined. 04:14:06 wb Bike 04:14:13 -!- elliott_ has joined. 04:15:55 i am here and ready to talk about french logicians 04:16:40 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:17:05 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 04:21:12 what are you useing it for? 04:21:21 doesthiswork: some play-around lambda calculus things in coq. 04:21:26 i was trying to implement the things in this paper. 04:21:50 oh hey elliott that reals paper, i got linked it because somebody thought it might be useful for lambda calculus things 04:21:54 is that the case? 04:23:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFRXks2X68#t=2m kmc: hi i'm bashar al-assad and welcome to jackass 04:23:30 Bike: um. I'm not sure. 04:23:37 for like, implementing the computable reals in LC I guess? 04:23:47 maybe if you implemented it in coq....... 04:23:51 but yeah something like that 04:23:54 i have no idea about these things 04:25:00 anyway proving equalities about coninductive things is, like, awful. 04:25:46 elliott: which reminds me of that comment i saw about copatterns in r/haskell. i wonder what those are. 04:25:55 Bike: cool now I know the arabic for "HOLY FUCK GUYS DID YOU SEE THAT" 04:26:17 kmc: if i've learned anything from these videos it's that if you shout ALLAHU AKBAR constantly you're basically speakingn arabic 04:26:21 yes 04:26:26 oerjan: those are simple to explain 04:26:33 they do say that a lot 04:26:40 supposedly they make codata more intuitive or something 04:26:41 particularly in war type situations 04:26:43 oerjan: imagine codata Stream a = Cons { head :: a, tail :: Stream a } 04:26:45 then 04:26:48 fibs :: Stream Nat 04:26:52 head fibs = 0 04:26:54 head (tail fibs) = 1 04:27:02 tail (tail fibs) = zipWith (+) ...etc... 04:27:08 defines fibs 04:27:19 aha 04:27:23 that's kinda weird but i like it 04:27:25 just defining fibs in terms of how it's destructed 04:27:48 and you can write it as, e.g. codata Stream a = head a & tail (Stream a) 04:27:52 to show how it's sort of dual to | 04:27:55 (& credit to ski) 04:28:13 oerjan: and then e.g. 04:28:19 map :: (a -> b) -> Stream a -> Stream b 04:28:29 i don't totally get it though 04:28:33 head (map f (Cons x xs)) = x 04:28:36 the guy can set a tank on fire with some small hand-thrown weapon? 04:28:37 http://24.media.tumblr.com/0a77e448bef7a06132fd72c1810c82bf/tumblr_mkmu7277Wq1sn19ono1_500.jpg 04:28:41 and then the guys in the tank don't get out or anything? 04:28:43 kmc: he put it in the barrel 04:28:45 tail (map f (Cons x xs)) = map f xs 04:28:50 uh, dunno how that looks with & though 04:28:55 elliott: *= f x surely 04:28:56 and according to the comments (for god's sake don't read the comments) it might have been disabled by an RPG first 04:28:58 er yes 04:28:59 oh snap 04:29:18 generally speaking i don't think escaping from a burning tank is easy though 04:29:26 head (map f (head x & tail _)) = f x; tail (map f (head _ & tail xs)) = map f xs or something 04:29:32 oh yeah I see now holy shit 04:29:35 you could use view patterns >:) 04:29:41 basically yeah, holy shit. 04:29:42 head (map f (head -> x)) = f x 04:29:49 tail (map f (tail -> xs)) = map f xs 04:29:57 i've seen a few videos of tanks going up like that and it's always a trip 04:30:21 fire literally pouring out 04:32:15 i guess there's a previous attempt at 1:20 or so 04:32:16 elliott: thanks 04:32:51 oerjan: np. there's probably some much better / more complete write-up elsewhere, I just picked up the basic idea from IRC 04:33:19 btw I like these two simultaneous conversations 04:33:39 fire literally pouring out of the coinduction 04:33:42 blowing up copatterns 04:34:17 kmc: "As you've likely gathered, Priebatsch is 22 years old." I like how this article gets as close as possible to saying he's an asshole without actually doing so 04:34:29 haha nice 04:34:46 "I found out that basically the real world was essentially the same game as Civilization [an old computer game], just with slightly better graphics, maybe, and slightly slower." 04:34:49 haha holy shit 04:35:10 -!- Bike has set topic: [an old computer game] | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:35:34 I wonder if there's some kind of reason the world looks like Civilisation? o Sid Meier, what prescience you must have had to invent something that the world would later imitate 04:35:51 elliott: I think it's a nice contrast about what young men do to seek glory under different circumstances 04:37:07 I think the first time the grenade doesn't make it all the way down the barrel and so bits of grenade just come shooting out? 04:37:11 "Priebatsch, like an undergrad reading Marx for the first time, started to look at everything through this new worldview." 04:37:19 this article writer totally hates the guy 04:37:24 i have some Marx open in a tab 04:37:41 elliott: probably 04:37:51 which marx 04:37:56 karl 04:38:07 no i mean like... which thing of his. 04:38:08 Theories of Surplus Value 04:38:19 Bike: i think i might have had a dream about you being a bicycle. not sure though 04:38:30 it was linked from something that was linked from something that... you know how it goes 04:38:31 uh what else would i be 04:38:35 i haven't read any Marx to date 04:38:37 like a unicycle or some shit? come on bro. 04:38:46 I think i read the communist manifesto once 04:38:51 well this might be a little strange 04:38:55 but my working hypothesis is that you are a person. 04:38:57 paid enough attention to be amused at how much of it was complaints about communists 04:39:01 heh 04:39:33 elliott: could you write this hypothesis out for me in coq 04:41:09 i don't think marxism is very respectable among modern economists 04:41:17 but maybe it's important in a historical and cultural sense 04:41:45 it's certainly nowhere near mainstream, even leftist economists go for something that's at best built off of it 04:42:08 i mean it's like... old. 04:42:24 yeah 04:43:47 marx more like uh 04:43:49 something ending with arx 04:43:58 fartx 04:44:05 yes. 04:44:55 let's see who's vaguely leftist 04:45:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Myrdal is cool and he wrote about race in the US for some reason 04:45:34 or you could just read graeber and be dumb maybe i dunno 04:46:07 kmc: http://thomasfriedmanopedgenerator.com/ you might enjoy this 04:46:17 haha yes i do 04:46:37 god friedman 04:47:31 "It would be easy to forget that the problem even exists, when our headlines are constantly splashed with the violence in Fiji, the authoritarian crackdown in Somalia and the still-unstable democratic transition in Mexico." nailed it 04:47:45 Ugh, I seem to be sick or something again. 04:47:49 It's been happening every month. 04:48:18 Bike: um it's actually "It would be easy to forget that the problem even exists, when our headlines are constantly splashed with the violence in Greece, the authoritarian crackdown in Comoros and the still-unstable democratic transition in Ghana." 04:48:34 "When I visited Singapore in 2000, Mbantu, the cabbie who drove me from the airport," i think this adds to the experience really 04:48:41 I have actually never heard of Comoros. 04:48:45 me too 04:49:08 oh it's one of those island states in the indian ocean 04:49:27 i used to be able to name all the countries of the world 04:49:42 animaniacs? 04:49:43 kmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc with or without this? 04:49:49 without 04:50:00 (bike and I are literally the same person I swear) 04:50:27 http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/world 04:50:50 hm comoros has a territory dispute with frane 04:50:52 france 04:51:38 "The Comoros is the only state to be a member of all of the following: the African Union, Francophonie, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, Arab League... and the Indian Ocean Commission" 04:51:43 and yes apparently it's The Comoros 04:51:54 comoropodes 04:52:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tree_map_export_2009_Comoros.jpeg 04:53:50 for... breaking up? like scrap? 04:53:53 It's been happening every month. <-- you're actually female hth 04:54:05 oerjan: I considered it. 04:54:29 Bike: don't a lot of poorer nations get dumped with the job of shipbreaking nowadays? 04:54:54 i have no idea, i mean, it makes sense but i've never heard of it 04:55:04 in fact i've never even heard of "shipbreaking" 04:55:49 "Today, most ship breaking yards are in developing countries, with the largest yards at Gadani in Pakistan, Alang in India, Chittagong in Bangladesh and Aliağa in Turkey. This is due to lower labor costs and less stringent environmental regulations dealing with the disposal of lead paint and other toxic substances. " 04:56:37 christ i thought pakistan was landlocked fuck me 04:57:28 it's like electronics recycling 04:57:40 it's messy and go away but also profitable? 04:57:49 (translation: a bunch of underpaid third world workers poisoning themselves to take apart your iphones) 04:58:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agbogbloshie.JPG 04:58:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie 04:58:48 Oh, wasn't that in some magazine? 04:59:02 should i go to the comoros 04:59:03 sounds like fun 04:59:06 ps what's comoros like 04:59:13 shipbreaky 04:59:36 man I love ships. that break. 04:59:36 Due to its harsh living conditions and rampant crime, the area is nicknamed "Sodom and Gomorrah". 04:59:40 awww ye 05:00:01 Yaaaay, people getting paid cents each day to take apart crap that's probably worth more than they'll make this year. 05:00:04 Sigh. 05:00:05 Fuck the world. 05:00:58 we should tweet about it 05:09:46 oerjan: why are we still awake 05:10:51 @localtime oerjan 05:10:52 Local time for oerjan is Thu Apr 4 07:10:51 2013 05:10:56 @time elliott 05:10:58 Local time for elliott is Thu Apr 4 06:10:57 2013 05:11:16 Because you slept all night and woke up 20 minutes ago? 05:11:17 It's early in the morning! Time to get out and plow! 05:13:12 -!- btiffin has joined. 05:16:00 COBOL paragraph, compiles links and go's, will soon be part of frogSort in cbrain: 05:16:02 forkyourself. 05:16:18 ....call "fork" returning opinion end-call 05:16:30 ....if respect is zero then 05:17:01 ........subtract 1 from shared-value 05:17:15 ........if not fair then go forkyourself. 05:17:16 . 05:17:37 so you didn't answer my question before 05:17:44 does cobol have automatic memory management or what 05:17:54 Oh, I thought you were still taunting. ;-) 05:18:06 no i'm actually curious. 05:18:18 OpenCOBOL does, with BASED. Normal WORKING-STORAGE section is not, it's fixed. 05:18:43 Banks like fixed memory 05:18:44 based, is that like a stack or 05:18:59 No, more malloc and free 05:19:08 oh boy i love malloc 05:19:10 But ANY LENGTH is still in draft 05:19:31 so var-1 PIC X(65535) BASED. 05:19:32 we may be approaching Peak COBOL 05:19:44 takes up no storage, but you need to set a max. 05:20:43 Linkage section allows for externals to do the management 05:22:51 kmc: I have a lot of fun with OpenCOBOL. COBOL in C space, which for all intensive purposes is the internet, is a lot of fun. (Intents and, yeah, yeah, this is intense) ;-) 05:26:05 so why should i use cobol rather than let's say snobol, what does cobol bring to the soda and cold pizza covered table 05:27:29 Umm, use them both. I'm writing up a sample linking Unicon. 05:28:14 ok like why add cobol to my repertoire of mad coding music then. i just, it's hard for me to register that somebody could /enjoy/ cobol, it's the stereotypical boring... uh... thing. 05:29:22 There is a vast pile of custom, closed COBOL. All the talk is rewrites and modernization. Nah, let them keep COBOL and attach (directly embedding) all the modern they want. 05:29:53 well i can appreciate that, but you said you didn't do this for business, you just like openCOBOL? 05:30:18 Yep. COBOL reads the beauty 05:30:19 so like, presumably you're writing new code that's mostly "standalone", not maintaining an existing system? 05:30:40 I'm actually just the fan boy writing prototypes and documentation. 05:31:24 oooooh 05:31:29 But most of the paid work would come from existent source code (which, may not read beautifully of course) 05:32:08 Last time I got paid to sling COBOL was umm, 83, 4? 05:40:21 ...someone here is older than me? 05:41:01 elliott: THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING 05:41:50 -!- carado has joined. 05:43:40 Nearing 50, this summer. Fan of bf, (and as old guy, I'm sad about Urban's choice of name. I can't talk to my mom about bf, without calling it bffff), but now with pbrain, I can reference pbrain and well, yay, cbrain. 05:44:10 brainmomi'mgay 05:44:18 :-) 05:44:59 * Fiora feels slightly less old 05:45:27 don't tell me Fiora is also older than me. 05:46:24 Fiora is 2013 years old hth 05:46:34 oh ok 05:46:41 23 -_- 05:46:50 close enough 05:47:04 I grew up as a commercial fisherman, so cuss'es are a thing of beauty. My old man could rhyme off 30 in a row when nets got tangled Sweet. But, not in front of the mom. ;-) 05:47:28 she didn't fish? 05:48:25 She came out a few times, but ended up seasick just about every run. 05:50:42 Anyone ever hear about micromorts? 05:50:58 the little death? 05:51:08 Bike: that's fear 05:51:16 The chance per million of kakking doing a particular thing? 05:51:32 curiously, "mort" is a norwegian word for baby fish 05:51:39 Like 1 million people got drunk yesterday, 70 didn't make it. 70 micromorts 05:51:39 I thought it was an orgasm. 05:51:44 so i wasn't quite sure whether you had changed the subject 05:51:49 Bike: fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration 05:51:51 I don't know "kakking" either. 05:51:59 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:52:05 Writing code at a desk is sub-one micromort. 05:52:27 coppro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort Inject some class into your vocabulary! 05:52:32 By class I mean sex jokes 05:52:43 french sex jokes are way classy 05:53:23 Fishing is 1600 ish, I get to go around and yell, Fished commercially, and LIVED. ;-) Now, with COBOL, no yelling. Just Dilbert nerd dances. 05:53:32 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:54:33 Bike: sorry, kakking is dropping dead, on the spot. 05:54:40 nice! 05:58:59 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:59:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:59:28 i'm pretty sure i've managed to mention that both my grandfathers were fishermen. afaik neither died of it. 05:59:42 although i had an uncle who drowned. 05:59:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 05:59:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:00:30 o_O 06:00:58 i don't think he was commercial fisherman though. 06:01:09 I traded a shift to go ashore on a night that sank our boat and drowned my dad's friends. 06:01:50 Fished commercially, and LIVED. 06:05:16 then wrote sad code and died a little inside, and LIVED. 06:06:25 :/ 06:08:17 Bike, not sure how long I'll hang out in esoland, but if you get to know me, I'm a fan of the lame. Lame is just grand. :-) Lamer the better. 06:08:34 What did Batman say to Robin, JUST before they got in the car? 06:08:51 Robin, get in the car. 06:08:53 do you mean like, dorky? because "lame" just makes me think of physical injuries, especially in the context of barely not drowning 06:09:34 Yeah, dorky, kinda. Lame as in "that's just lame" 06:09:42 groaner puns 06:10:03 Yes. Lamest rules. 06:11:01 Why do sea gulls fly over seas? If they flew over bays, they'd be bagels. 06:22:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:25:54 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:34:48 -!- fftw has joined. 07:14:48 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:31:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:36:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:36:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:40:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 07:42:44 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 07:59:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:00:58 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:30:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:45:33 -!- btiffin has left. 08:47:24 -!- nooga has joined. 09:08:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:14:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:17:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:20:34 -!- heroux has joined. 09:27:33 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:27:45 -!- carado has joined. 09:44:15 -!- nooga has joined. 10:00:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:33:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:36:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:36:27 -!- monqy has joined. 10:38:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:46:01 `slist 10:46:06 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:55:16 Sgeo, you're a bit slow 10:55:29 I thought that was hours ago 10:55:32 I was a bit asleep 10:56:00 Isn't there a timestamp for the update you could also post 11:03:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:09:34 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:11:41 Also, last night I think the Chinese Graphics Card problem came back 11:11:50 And then I had a bunch of nightmares 11:11:56 So I may be getting confused 11:12:31 hmm 11:12:49 I spent all night (after I woke up) working on my javascript database 11:13:03 well, it's currently written in Perl, I'm planning to translate the read end of it into JS once it's working 11:13:14 implementing databases is fun, really 11:13:27 So fun edwardk did it twice 11:13:41 I invented a new user interface/API for them which is more limited than SQL, but also much easier to use in the situations where it works 11:14:49 basically you just say which fields of which tables you care about, and it works out an appropriate sequence of joins, or complains and asks for more precision if there's more than one plausible way to do it 11:14:58 and you can disambiguate 11:15:09 the main limitation is that so far it doesn't handle many-to-many relationships 11:16:46 (it doesn't produce the wrong answer, it just refuses to try) 11:24:14 -!- nooodl^ has joined. 11:24:50 -!- nooodl^ has quit (Client Quit). 11:30:36 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:32:16 I have "?"s in the names of about one quarter of my course participants in this assignment grading table, due to not being able to get the list of registered people (it's in The System somewhere, and I don't have the privileges for that), and having to decipher them out of their handwritten answers. 11:32:46 At least in the case of Finnish name there's usually enough context; but some of these others I really can't guess. 11:33:06 -!- nooga has joined. 11:41:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:42:30 fizzie: we mostly got round the problem at this university by giving everyone an arbitrary number, and asking them to use them on submissions 11:42:41 (and, often, to leave their actual name off, so that they can be marked pseudo-anonymously) 11:43:02 it's harder to screw up a 7-digit number so badly that it can't be read, than a name 11:43:11 also, 11:43:36 people often put in extra effort to write it legibly because they know they won't get any marks if it's wrong because nobody will be able to figure out whose submission it is 11:43:39 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:47:00 ais523_: We use the student number too, and there's an official rule of never publishing a list with both names and student numbers on them. 11:47:20 Which is sometimes followed and sometimes not 11:47:23 I'm not sure if we have that rule or not 11:47:29 people try to avoid it, but sometimes it's unavoidable 11:47:45 Deewiant: Sometimes it's a list of student numbers only, but sorted according to name. 11:47:54 :-D 11:47:58 (That's the best, since you kind of have to do a linear search for your number.) 11:48:40 I've figured out a couple of student numbers by taking the intersection of exam grade lists out of exams I've known the person to attend. 11:49:37 oh, in my case I have a list of student number/name correspondences, because I need it for admin tasks (like working out who isn't submitting exercises), but I'm meant to keep it secret 11:49:58 but there are interfaces via which you can give a name and get a number back, or vice versa, scattered around the computer system 11:50:08 with various degrees of access control 11:50:11 I used to get that list too, but just emailed by a guy with the right sort of access to The System. 11:50:24 yeah, same here, emailed by someone with higher access 11:50:38 one of my favourite boundaries in the system is that you used to be able to email an ID number 11:50:46 which isn't obviously exploitable, but is interesting 11:50:51 I'm not sure if that still works 11:50:54 Heh, we had that too. 11:51:39 Also, one of the earlier The Systems had a fault where you could type an ID number in the "people search" field, and it'd return details of the corresponding person, even if it doesn't show the ID number field in the results. 11:51:46 (That one was obviously exploitable.) 11:52:50 Well, now. Here's one submission with no name or student number at all. 11:54:10 And the one right next to it is missing the third digit of the six-digit ID (confirmed by matching with name). This is some sort of an unlucky round. 11:57:24 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:57:24 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 11:57:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 12:03:15 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:05:59 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:15:51 Heh, that's funny. If you type the word "attach" in an email in Thunderbird, it'll put up a notice banner reminding you that you might possibly have wanted to attach a file or something. 12:16:21 I've sent my own share of "please see attached file" + "whoops, I mean, *here's* the file" email pairs, so I suppose that's a good idea. 12:16:24 GMail does that as well 12:16:49 "Sending of message failed. The Kerberos/GSSAPI ticket was not accepted by the SMTP server mail.aalto.fi. Please check that you are logged in to the Kerberos/GSSAPI realm." 12:16:52 Well, that's less good. 12:17:06 Why am I thinking of toastie makers 12:17:12 Or possibly waffle irons 12:17:21 Something about my dreams last night... 12:17:40 fizzie: And you can view/edit the list of keywords causing that banner in Preferences/Options -> Composition -> General -> Keywords 12:18:03 Anyway, we've got a new router, so I may brb 12:21:07 Taneb: turn the old router into a toaster! 12:21:32 ThatOtherPerson, that would mean we'd have a really crappy toaster 12:22:32 But it would then run NetBSD! 12:22:38 Taneb: Your dream was a sign! You must do it! 12:22:39 Many toasters do. 12:23:20 But my dream also had me lose my shoes! 12:23:31 And look for them on the balcony of my school's main hall! 12:23:58 My school's main hall doesn't have a balcony! 12:24:03 Any, now I must go 12:24:19 My home planet needs me 12:28:06 Taneb: you must build a balcony for your school so that you can look for your shoes on it when you lose them! 12:29:16 "2/3 = 0.75" (random quote from one of the submissions). 12:29:29 It's correct up until the 2/3, and the "= 0.75" is the very last thing in it. 12:29:44 :/ 12:30:03 It's the kind of thing that can happen. 12:33:36 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:34:06 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 12:56:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:09 -!- boily has joined. 12:57:57 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:58:05 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:58:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:59:17 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:03:39 oh, bleh, wiki spam again 13:03:45 despite being fast to clean up, it's still annoying to have to do so 13:04:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:06:21 I should reboot my bot. 13:06:45 I should rebot my boot. 13:06:45 elliott: "Warning: This filter was automatically disabled as a safety measure. It reached the limit of matching more than 5.00% of actions." 13:08:14 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:09:19 oklofok: do you have other games like your counting dots thingy? 13:10:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:11:52 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:14:56 anyway, basically MediaWiki decided that there were sufficient amounts of spam being caught by the filter, that it should disable the filter because it must be interfering with real editors by mistake 13:15:34 also, it's now impossible to create a page on Esolang with a
tag and no newlines; there's no penalty for trying, it's just that the spambots don't seem to understand newlines 13:15:44 so this should shut them down altogether until someone changes their framework 13:25:20 what if a spambotter spies on this channel? 13:29:53 what if a spambot spies on this channel? 13:34:28 hmm... there's a flurry of idlers here. maybe they're all bots? 13:36:37 boily: the details of what exactly you aren't allowed to do are public 13:36:47 I could hide them, but if I did, I wouldn't tell the channel about them 13:36:58 and it's a really easy restriction to figure out by experiment 13:38:07 I am a bot 13:38:22 Not a spambot though. That is beneath my talents. 13:40:24 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:43:58 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 13:46:44 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:47:13 -!- carado has joined. 13:52:30 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:05:27 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:11:28 Every time there are network problems, there's the chance for some sort of an amazing support experience from the ISP. 14:11:46 This time the problem reporting form just said "this service is temporarily out of order, try again later". 14:12:28 They have an IM-over-the-browser kind of customer contact thing, but that one does not accept fault reports. 14:12:53 Would've'd to SPEAK with ANOTHER HUMAN. How unhygienic. 14:13:00 (Fortunately, it fixed itself.) 14:15:49 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:16:03 -!- fungot has joined. 14:17:52 fungot: Are YOU responsible for the wikispam? 14:17:52 fizzie: the variable file is not very fast". :) anyways, i mean syntax fnord etc. 14:21:52 fungot: make it faster! 14:21:53 FireFly: it's " swap the comma and period" followed by another " a", a unicode local, and you output a newline, your interpreter might not show an ui :p there) 14:26:12 fungot: what is a unicode local? 14:26:13 boily: does that allows to extend vim with scheme the implementation figures that out itself. technology is behind all 3 of those. at first the way dataflow folks play with it yourself. 14:31:23 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:35:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:35:43 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:36:56 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:40:10 -!- Bike has joined. 14:46:16 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:47:19 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:47:33 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:48:35 -!- fizzie has joined. 14:49:24 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:50:53 -!- carado has joined. 14:53:00 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:59:57 -!- aloril has joined. 15:01:45 -!- btiffin has joined. 15:04:30 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:06:55 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Client Quit). 15:08:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:17:06 -!- btiffin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:39:28 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:41:55 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has joined. 15:42:01 I wonder if learning OpenGL for C will help me learn it for Haskell enough for it to be worth it for the better-maintained and fuller tutorials? 15:43:46 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:44:38 Taneb: yes. you can also learn it for C++/Java, as they're only thin wrappers with the same function names. 15:44:38 @ping 15:44:38 pong 15:44:40 the Haskell OpenGL library I used is a pretty low level mapping of the C API 15:45:00 Wow, this new router is great 15:45:18 Taneb: is the old one a toaster yet? 15:45:22 just be careful of the version of OpenGL you chose to learn, as there are multiple major semantic changes and tools and ways of doing things between them. 15:45:26 -!- ThatOtherPersonY has changed nick to ThatOtherPerson. 15:45:39 ThatOtherPerson, nah, we've already got a toaster, don't need a new one 15:45:47 aw D: 15:45:52 -!- boily has changed nick to new_toaster. 15:46:01 yay :D 15:46:21 * new_toaster even has a bagel button! 15:46:34 (very important when you live in montréal or NYC) 15:47:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:47:35 * ThatOtherPerson slices a bagel in half and puts the slices into new_toaster, then pushes down the thingamabob and presses the bagel button 15:48:07 new_toaster: Do you prefer Montral-style bagels or New York-style bagels? 15:49:17 Haskell is OpenGL 2.1, right? 15:49:18 Yeah 15:49:24 I'd say that with OpenGL, the old fixed function pipeline is an interesting introduction but shouldn't be used for actual code 15:56:27 ThatOtherPerson: Montréal style, definitely. Freshly made in the morning, with sesamee seeds. 15:56:34 :D 15:56:42 Yep, those are pretty nice 15:56:57 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:02:17 What's the difference? 16:02:33 ("The bagel button". Crazy.) 16:03:20 fizzie: Montreal-style bagels are thinner, chewier, and slightly sweeter 16:04:20 -!- nooga has joined. 16:04:58 Hrm. I suppose I don't really have a point of reference here. 16:06:37 fizzie: Have you eaten bagels before? 16:07:00 Yes, several times, but I don't know which kind of they were, since it has all happened in Finland. 16:07:08 If I give you a photo, can you tell from it what kind it is? 16:07:13 yeah 16:07:20 http://arnolds.fi/bagels_en <- I've eaten those things. 16:07:37 Okay, so it mentions New York in the description. 16:07:51 Yep, those are New York-style bagels 16:08:12 except they probably were in Finland before they were in New York... 16:08:36 Then there's the ones I've eaten at home, I think they're thinner. At least the hole's bigger. 16:08:58 At any rate, I like all bagels 16:09:11 It's a funny word. 16:10:00 http://www.foodfactory.fi/dennisBagelit.php are the ones that they sell at our local grocery store. 16:11:21 Hey, the Wikipedia "Bagel" page lists the Finnish vesirinkeli. We used to buy a giant pile of those from the neighbour bakery when visiting the small town where my parents are from. 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 16:12:49 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:14:20 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 16:19:24 Bagels are the bond which unites us all. 16:20:03 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:20:32 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 16:22:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:24:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Client Quit). 16:35:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:36:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:45:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:47:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:52:49 ais523: heh, becauset here is too much spam? 16:55:09 elliott: yes 16:55:19 I turned it off and on again to reset it 16:55:41 sorry about that 16:55:48 anyway, now we have a filter 2 that's prevents edits anywhere if they contain
and no newline, only consequence is preventing the edit 16:56:35 this should block every spambot edit we've had recently 16:56:48 OK 16:56:53 the spambots have been trying various sorts of
to get around the filter; I'm reasonably sure there's some sort of human intervention 16:56:56 I swear soon I'll upgrade the wiki and add more captchas 16:57:00 perhaps some day they'll discover the existence of newlines ;) 16:57:04 hopefully we won't even need the filters then 16:57:21 ais523: hmm maybe I should look at the server logs 16:57:28 to see where the human is 16:57:33 elliott: well I have checkuser logs 16:57:40 well they could be using another IP 16:57:40 I found the human at one point through checkuser 16:57:43 and blocked the IP range 16:57:44 and not editing themselves or something 16:57:55 since then, everything's just been random proxies when I've checked 16:57:56 then it would be beneficial to block them from /reading/ the wiki, at the webserver level 16:58:00 so it's harder for them to try new strategies 16:58:01 the usual cannot-block-stuff 16:58:04 oh, proxies, of course :( 16:58:13 (maybe they have a distinctive user agent...) 16:59:07 well the person I suspect of being human stopped editing upon the "clicking submit will block you" warning 16:59:21 then resumed a little later from a browser that identified as x64 firefox rather than x86 firefox 17:00:07 You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that? 17:00:11 most likely explanations: they physically changed to a different computer because they thought it would get around the spambot traps (while continuing to use the same username), or they're faking their useragent 17:00:36 ais523: I'm baffled as to why, this behaviour does not fit with my mental model of wiki spammers at all 17:00:56 it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either 17:00:59 kmc: is that the thing that makes your brain melt if you're a bot? 17:01:11 which is: basically fully automated, targetting many thousands of wikis all at once, getting other people (without this kind of level of control) to solve CAPTCHAs 17:01:15 i thought it was just for detecting bots 17:01:16 the most likely thing I can think of is that they're trying to spam with very little idea of what they're doing 17:01:26 so why would someone who has the ability to change the bot's behaviour be messing around with a wiki that they can surely tell is basically pointless to spam? 17:01:36 probably the spammer variant of a script kiddie 17:01:47 they have some tools from somewhere and feel really l33t for using them 17:01:55 but don't fundamentally understand what they're doing 17:02:00 hmm... maybe I should look at the links they're spamming 17:02:10 although, I suppose they're links someone else is paying them to spam, most likely 17:02:21 and don't, that'd mean they weren't 100% wasting their time 17:03:08 ais523: they'll get no meaningful benefit from me looking at the link; I'll copy it so the referer doesn't show 17:03:24 and I might get marginal benefit from it w.r.t. not being as confused 17:04:38 ais523: anyway, I figure the easiest thing is to block these at registration time 17:05:04 if there really is a human getting around each extra prevention one by one, then it shouldn't be too hard to make them get bored if they can't even get accounts registered without a bunch of work 17:05:30 yep 17:05:39 we're getting legitimate non-spammy newbies too 17:05:46 so don't want to make things so hard for them 17:05:57 there's always the INTERCAL CAPTCHA that Claudio Calvelli uses, it's hilarious 17:07:03 ais523: so there was a non-proxy IP originally, right? 17:07:10 maybe we could report them to their ISP 17:07:34 elliott: there are some IPs that have been used multiple times, and also a range that had multiple spambots editing from it 17:07:37 look at my blocks on IP ranges 17:08:05 well, one range, one single IP 17:08:20 * elliott looks up the IPs 17:10:41 ais523: the 113.212.70.170 one is likely to be the spambot's unproxied IP, right? 17:10:52 or at least, less-proxied 17:11:03 I think the range is their actual IP 17:11:08 not sure, though 17:11:09 or, hmm 17:12:02 the one I just quoted is allocated to APNIC, fwiw 17:12:32 and the range, some networking company in Vegas I've never heard of 17:22:02 -!- atehwa has joined. 17:22:34 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:34:01 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:37:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:31 -!- conehead has joined. 17:44:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:44:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:49:35 -!- nooga has joined. 17:51:35 hiais523. i like your reversible brainfuck. but now you have a challenge 17:52:03 it needs a self interpreter:) 17:52:27 tromp_: why don't you write one yourself? Could be real fun 17:52:35 tromp_: IIRC it was proven TC 17:52:37 maybe not 17:55:15 yes, you proved that it's possible in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck#Computational_class 17:55:57 you coulf write a RBF interpreter in BF and then convert that to RBF 17:56:03 right 17:57:41 but maybe it can be done directly and still be competitive (in size) with existing BF self-interpreters 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 18:06:10 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:08:44 -!- new_toaster has changed nick to boily. 18:22:37 -!- augur has joined. 18:31:58 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 18:55:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:05:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:09:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:25:45 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:31:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:34:04 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:57:09 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:59:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:08:57 Why do sea gulls fly over seas? If they flew over bays, they'd be bagels. <-- i fear this channel may not be big enough for the both of us. 20:10:04 you're upset at having someone trying to outpun you? :3 20:10:17 _and_ being older to boot. 20:10:27 btiffin must accept the punishment 20:10:31 oh no :P 20:13:27 what is this channel's preferred form of punishment? tortue by brainfuck derivative? 20:13:36 s/ue/ure/ 20:14:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:14:40 my preferred form of punishment is swatting. 20:16:50 boily: there's always brainbricking 20:17:00 though some have started to consider that practice barbaric. 20:17:28 boily: A torte *of* brainfuck derivatives. 20:17:31 You and your swatter.. 20:17:42 brainbricking was invented during the Punic wars 20:17:47 tortilla of brainfuck derivatives 20:18:03 * oerjan hits FireFly with the saucepan ===\__/ 20:18:25 It caused those who suffered it to have a puny intelligence 20:18:38 oerjan: can you make a dependently-typed language with good coinduction please? 20:18:41 coq is awful at it. 20:18:56 It was then rediscovered by the punk movement in the 80's 20:19:01 elliott: unlikely. 20:19:27 oerjan, you can take a punt 20:19:32 Taneb: it was written on stone tablets found in punjab 20:19:43 * FireFly pours hot tea on oerjan C(__)` 20:20:01 (that is supposed to be a teapot) 20:20:03 Mmm, tea. 20:20:06 * oerjan sizzles 20:20:23 oerjan: I just want to write semantics with the partiality monad! 20:20:39 oerjan, my plot has been unspun! 20:20:40 elliott: "semantics"? what are you, conal? 20:20:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:22:39 Taneb: i deciphered it with a lyapunov function 20:23:17 * boily wetly slaps oerjan with a damp and humid metasepia just to see what happens (FOR SCIENCE!) 20:24:07 * oerjan scuttles fishily away 20:24:38 ...I'm going to stop. I happun to think this has gone to far. 20:27:07 * Fiora noms sushi 20:27:24 well it did now, when you started opun fake spellings 20:27:54 I think you're doing this on porpoise 20:28:13 even if it's just for the halibut, these puns are pretty crappie 20:28:20 cod be. 20:28:43 I can't salmon the force to face this puns. 20:28:48 s/this/these/ 20:29:07 yeah that's the trout 20:29:10 see, even my grammar is out of tuna. I need to go back to school. 20:29:30 sharking 20:30:27 it might be better if I clam up but I'm a bit shellfish when it comes to fintastic puns 20:30:27 hey wiktionary actually has a picture on the crappie page 20:31:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:01 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:33:57 Something's fishy 20:34:31 what 20:34:31 what 20:34:32 what 20:34:34 are you 20:34:37 people 20:34:40 doing fish puns 20:34:44 no, bots. 20:35:02 this is all a load of mackerel 20:35:35 Phantom_Hoover, try harder. That was carp. 20:35:42 if you don't like them, you can skipper them. 20:36:04 yeah well why don't you go pufferfish yourself 20:36:24 what kind of language is this i'm herring 20:37:19 It's somewhat angler-saxon 20:37:45 eel be damned, that's what I was going to sail. 20:37:58 Taneb: i think we're trawling the bottom here 20:38:21 water you even saying, these puns are reely crayative 20:38:36 we can always fit moray of them. 20:39:13 no, i _really_ think this topic is floundering 20:40:34 really we should wrasse the lot of it 20:40:38 i shrimply refuse to bereef it 20:41:20 this lobster meaning a page ago 20:42:43 i think it still has lobsta meaning 20:43:25 Fiora you are barnacle worst of the lot 20:43:55 oh well at least we're krilling some time 20:44:02 ah, it's fin to sea this channel filled to the bream with bad puns. 20:44:51 i like how these conversations always just end up being about how awful puns are starfish 20:47:03 now that we reached the pike of the subject, could someone quote the loach of it for posterity? 20:47:30 no we should never speak of this again dolphin 20:47:55 also we sacculina never do it again either 20:48:02 AAAAAH 20:48:06 * Bike knocks over a table 20:48:09 * oerjan is suspicious of Phantom_Hoover's puns, they look fishy in the wrong way 20:48:22 WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUCKERS 20:48:34 it happened once. leave it abalone once it's finished. 20:48:57 ...you can drink SHOTS of beer? 20:49:09 Taneb: yeah that's cannonical 20:49:16 would you triplefin blenny think of Bike, he's suffering 20:49:33 triplefin blenny what the FUCK 20:49:35 Alcohol has more to offer me than I thought 20:49:38 Shots of beer? What proof are you dealing with? 20:49:40 a woman needs a man like a bike needs a fish? 20:49:47 those aren't even words 20:49:53 i haven't got a single of Phantom_Hoover's puns. is anyone sure they're real? 20:50:14 ok i guess i get the mackerel one 20:50:32 think harder, you'll staghorn sculpin it eventually 20:50:51 you're just putting fish words in they don't evne make sense 20:50:58 yes 20:51:08 well Phantom_Hoover's puns are making me laugh the most 20:51:09 by far 20:51:14 * Bike throws the table at Phantom_Hoover 20:51:14 thus deadlocking the pun thread while everyone else frantically tries to work it out 20:51:18 that's the theory, at least 20:51:24 sadly Taneb ruined the experiment 20:52:14 in fact i am still laughing 20:52:34 triplefin blenny is probably valid cockney for something. 20:52:56 Phantom_Hoover is blatantly the most cockney person here 20:53:24 yes, that's fairly conception 20:54:08 no it's not nothing is fairly conception there is no conception and NOTHING IS FAIR 20:54:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:54:39 surprising ais523 didn't quit earlier 20:57:42 Nothing is conception and everything is permitted 20:58:19 ~duck conception 20:58:19 conception definition: the process of becoming pregnant involving fertilization or implantation or both. 20:58:30 ~eval Nothing 20:58:31 Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 20:58:31 arising from a use of `M4607643867718357546.show_M4607643867718357546' 20:58:31 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 20:58:31 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 20:58:31 Note: there are several potential instances: 20:58:31 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Double 20:58:31 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 20:58:32 instance GHC.Show.Show GHC.Types.Float 20:58:32 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Float' 20:58:33 instance (GHC.Real.Integral a, GHC.Show.Show a) => 20:58:33 GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Real.Ratio a) 20:58:34 -- Defined in `base:GHC.Real' 20:58:53 boily: ...you need defaulting rules. 20:59:17 what should I put in this case? 20:59:50 -XExtendedDefaultingRules 20:59:53 or whatever it's called 21:00:02 no can do for now. 21:00:10 oh right. the opaque binary. 21:00:22 you could make a ghc executable that comes before the real one in $PATH. 21:00:26 and adds ExtendedDefaultingRules. 21:05:33 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:16:02 yes, you proved that it's possible in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Reversible_Brainfuck#Computational_class 21:16:11 *GRUMBLE* i did that hth 21:16:29 oerjan: hello oerjan 21:16:36 `welcome oerjan 21:16:37 Rule 1 of #esoteric: 21:16:42 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:16:42 It was oerjan 21:17:31 sorry oerjan, i cldnt tell from the webpage 21:17:36 Taneb: i felt a little bad when someone else said they'd _almost_ showed emmental TC just after i put up my interpreter 21:18:33 all hail oerjan, completeness-prover-extraordinaire 21:19:01 oerjan, enemy of gödel 21:19:49 tromp_: IT'S ALL IN THE PAGE HISTORY 21:19:50 *sworn 21:19:57 * oerjan maybe should start crediting himself 21:20:19 yeah, i always read the whole history of every wiki page... 21:20:21 but i sort of like that the wiki is neutral speaker 21:20:59 Emmental was proven TC by ørjan the eternal, enemy of the darkness 21:21:08 oerjan: you can say that the work was done by oerjan 21:21:12 maybe they will believe someone else wrote it up 21:21:19 btw, you can remove " Included with permission. " from the Nora primes. 21:21:40 oh no 21:22:22 no need for legalese... 21:23:12 øh nø 21:23:19 tromp_, did you just... 21:23:39 did you just shorten Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? 21:23:46 tromp_: well i needed to say it somewhere, maybe the edit summary would have been enough 21:23:48 i sure did 21:24:25 tromp_: i'm sorry, but this is for your own good... 21:24:32 * oerjan swats tromp_ -----### 21:24:52 i hereby donate Nora prime sieve to the public domain 21:24:56 there you have it:) 21:25:14 sorry again taneb for my shortening:( 21:25:14 hi oerjan 21:25:19 can i be swatted a little bit 21:25:20 hi shachaf 21:25:43 * oerjan swats shachaf with the spare --# 21:25:49 Oh, come on. 21:25:56 I don't get a full -----### ? 21:26:03 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is the longest-named esolang I know of 21:26:06 you said "a little bit" 21:26:18 true 21:26:22 Some of my bathrooms have baths; the rest are restrooms. 21:26:29 can i be swatted for that 21:26:38 Taneb: INTERCAL's official name is longer 21:26:46 i cant even be bothered to write out the full name of BLC... 21:26:47 or is it hm 21:27:09 > length "Compiler Language With No Pronouncable Acronym" 21:27:11 46 21:27:16 > length "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" 21:27:18 54 21:27:20 eek 21:27:28 here's the rule: if you need to cut&paste the name of your language, then it is too long 21:27:42 tromp_, it's not too hard to type it out 21:28:09 if you had, we'd have seen a typo or two:) 21:28:17 Nah, I'm just good 21:28:27 real fast nora's hair salon three: shear disaster download 21:28:34 (I actually am typing it out each time) 21:28:40 What kind of esolang is RFNHS3:SDD? 21:28:50 I think abbreviating Nora into 「リファノヘサスシディダ」 is better. 21:28:56 FireFly, haven't heard of it 21:28:58 IMO kick anyone who abbreviates that language 21:29:01 tromp: I wouldn’t bother to copy and paste that if my hand wasn’t on the mouse already. 21:29:05 shachaf: don't be a loonie 21:29:22 Taneb: okay then, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 21:29:30 FireFly, it's functional 21:29:35 elliot's o iso bjeectivel y correct 21:29:54 tromp_: we don't agree with that rule here around these parts. 21:30:16 tromp_: also i _don't_ need to cut&paste itflabtijtslwi. 21:30:30 boily: rihuānohesesusitèītà? 21:30:34 FireFly, basically lambda calculus with a really "nice and readable" syntax 21:31:11 basically a COBOLized lambda calculus 21:31:15 pikhq: does japanese use graves now 21:31:26 Bike: If I'm Romanizing it. 21:31:26 Imagine if binary lambda calculus and BIT got married and had a child 21:31:54 "nice and readable" 21:32:11 pikhq: the first syllable of each word. 21:32:35 Bike: The string he put out there is impossible to romanize with any other defined romanization scheme. 21:32:45 metal 21:32:57 Bike: Only way to do it would basically be with the random hacks used for Japanese input on keyboards. 21:33:00 I can't remember if it's ダ or ド for download. 21:33:14 Then it'd be something like "rifanohesesushidelida" 21:33:26 boily: It's ダウンロード, so ダ. 21:33:43 imo, make an esolang that does computation through romanizing tangut 21:33:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:34:15 time to go eat. 21:34:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:34:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:35:18 Bike: imo you do that 21:36:46 but i don't know tangut :( 21:37:27 it takes two to tangut 21:37:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:50:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:56:17 ooh, new drive comic 21:56:56 although it's still sort of filler 22:01:25 Audio dithering is god damned silly. 22:01:48 hither and dither 22:02:05 -!- atehwa has joined. 22:02:09 The simple-but-effective way is to just add low-amplitude white noise. 22:02:28 * oerjan wonders if there's a bot that makes better puns than these 22:02:58 puns puns puns 22:03:02 funpuns 22:03:13 except shachaf. 22:03:38 wait, maybe all humans are secretly punbots 22:03:51 fungot, are you a punbot? 22:04:04 pun bots make fun gots 22:04:11 mostly fungot is a runawaybot 22:04:12 fungot is dead 22:04:26 fizzie: SOMEONE KILLED FUNGOT 22:04:35 http://nothinginbiology.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/evo2012bingo.png So what does this sort of thing look like for CS and maths conferences 22:05:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:05:34 probably mostly the same 22:05:41 i dunno, but i would put "is easily seen" and "obvious" in any math ones 22:05:56 yeah i figured you could switch out "Darwin (1859)" for "trivial" 22:06:14 haha do people actually cite darwin like that 22:06:20 programmers like to say something is "trivial" when it will require 250 hours of engineering effort but the basic idea is simple 22:06:32 elliott: I've seen it. It's hilarious. 22:07:01 just in case anyone's reading the latest evolution papers and wants to find out about this "darwin" guy's work 22:07:13 Someday I'm going to cite Darwin (1881) and blow everybody's fucking mind 22:07:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:07:34 darwin did his most influential computer science work in 1881 22:07:50 he had some good material on earthworms 22:07:51 1881 is when he wrote his book on worm shit 22:07:53 The Formation of Vegetable Mould through the Action of Worms would be a good name for an album 22:08:01 kmc. 22:08:06 it's sort of like The Mysterious Production of Eggs 22:08:06 that would actually be a terrible name for an album 22:08:15 hah, I knew my biology major was good for something 22:08:16 Lovelace (1862) ? 22:08:25 oh sorry it's "The Formation of Vegetable Mould through the Action of Worms, with Observations on their Habits" 22:08:29 doesthiswork: don't try and comfort Bike 22:08:35 he needs to know how futile it is 22:08:35 interestingly Formation of Vegetable Moulds is actually very interesting 22:08:48 not what you'd expect from a book about which direction worms pull leaves into their burrows 22:08:55 oh she was already dead then 22:08:56 the only thing more useless than a biology degree is a speech recognition researcher 22:08:59 * elliott looks at fizzie 22:09:12 ... I have a friend who does that 22:09:13 hey guys 22:09:14 oerjan: also wasn't lovelace's thing like a translation 22:09:23 oerjan: how's my timing today, uh? 22:09:27 or a ltter, i forget 22:09:29 doesthiswork: I hope they make you feel better about yourself 22:09:47 Koen_: much better 22:09:59 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01312010 22:10:06 what's a speech recognition researcher? 22:10:10 oh wait 22:10:13 ok 22:10:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earthworm_klitellum_copulation_beentree.jpg hot 22:10:40 elliott: but I like trying to comfort bike 22:10:45 * Koen_ was imagining some guy analyzing speeches in a way similar to how some people analyze handwriting 22:10:58 Fiora: ok well you can tell him stories about speech recognition. that is acceptable 22:11:03 kmc: fun fact darwin's book on emotions was one of the first books to include photographs http://www.ucl.ac.uk/sts/engage_academics/impact/narratives/images/eema4.jpg 22:11:05 the ladies love a man you knows that much about oral production 22:11:14 what 22:11:24 Bike: hahahaha 22:11:44 that's him? 22:11:47 nah 22:12:00 just some guy who also has a prodigious beard 22:12:10 this is him: http://images.arcadja.com/charles_darwin-the_expression_of_the_emotions_in_man~OMd4b300~10001_20071014_15400_4646.jpg 22:12:18 best plate in history imo 22:12:55 troll face is one of the primative primate signals 22:13:00 picture of charles darwin: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Oscar_Wilde_portrait.jpg/220px-Oscar_Wilde_portrait.jpg 22:13:28 that might be the wrong photo 22:13:35 kmc: i'm pretty disappointed that those terms aren't actually composting things. 22:13:50 are you a person who knows about compost 22:14:05 no i just wanted "open Tanoku matrix" to be real 22:17:35 "I have just received such a Box full from Mr Bateman with the astounding Angræcum sesquipedalia with a nectary a foot long— Good Heavens what insect can suck it" thinking i need to read darwin's letters 22:18:01 did you see http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/10/18/163181524/charles-darwin-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-day 22:18:28 haha yes 22:18:44 btw the answer to his question was apparently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NHM_Xanthopan_morgani.jpg which is horrifying 22:18:56 D: 22:19:24 did darwin do any mushroom biology 22:20:19 fungi are so weird, i think they're the least well studied kingdom by far 22:20:20 Let's see... no I think he mostly did botany, sucks. 22:20:42 I guess I can't blame him. Like, Origin of Species was literally written before the germ theory of disease, what the fuck. 22:24:25 Given how little was known at the time, Darwin was really quite impressive. 22:25:19 Even without having any idea of microbiology, he mentioned the possibility of parasitic worms and fungi evolving, like wow dude. 22:25:39 that's what 50 years of makeing sure it makes sense does for you 22:26:16 Yup. He figured it out just by inferring very well. 22:30:36 Yes, he was pretty good at it. Now that we actually have such science, though, our science improved to be better than Darwin's stuff. 22:30:37 zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:30:40 ?messages 22:30:41 shachaf asked 1d 1h 26m 47s ago: are you into alchemy 22:31:40 -!- hagb4rdoux has joined. 22:32:00 Well, yeah, Darwin's theory of how heredity actually worked is pretty fucking funny 22:32:59 Darwin certainly did make a lot of mistakes, though; but, so do a lot of people. 22:33:35 Now I wrote about a #% command in Esoteric Verilog to specify faulty components which have a given probability to give the correct answer instead of always working correctly. 22:34:23 fungi are so weird, i think they're the least well studied kingdom by far 22:34:40 archae, bitch 22:34:43 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:10 high there! isn't that kalbrenners most awesome track? just enjoyous..(you may know one of the brothers - both music makers, bu also bot solo-artist 22:35:17 .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=0s) 22:35:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=0s 22:35:23 Phantom_Hoover: yeah maybe 22:35:32 I sort of meant relative to complexity and variety 22:35:34 Phantom_Hoover: that's not really a kingdom so much as a miscellaneous dump :/ 22:37:03 * hagb4rdoux like died afte typing ít, leaving some riddles for futures archeologists 22:37:04 -!- fungot has joined. 22:37:16 hi 22:37:17 fungot: Try to stay alive there. 22:37:17 fizzie: ( twb: except " initialization" is fnord 22:37:22 -!- hagb4rdoux has changed nick to hagb4rd. 22:38:25 -- well that would be fair: the movie "berlin calling" .. if you've seen it you know him 22:39:19 he kinda played himself, after just consulting the regisseur they just did by one take :P 22:39:24 did it 22:42:12 damn! how can i be sooo wrong? heres the correct link 22:42:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2hCo6X-1YcY#t=720s 22:42:20 12:000 22:42:24 sry 22:45:30 I read in some book about a experiment to distinguish many-worlds from Copenhagen. To me, the experiment described seems impossible. 22:45:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:45:52 (Other than that the experiment looks OK, though.) 22:46:50 -!- augur has joined. 22:46:58 what is the experiment 22:48:21 I do not have that book with me right now, and I do not entirely remember, but it involves making the experiment entirely reversing itself and everything involved; that also includes whoever did the experiment, and if he gives the result to someone then it must involve them too; if he write it or put in the computer, it involves that paper/computer too, etc 22:48:42 ... 22:49:03 Sounds tractable 22:52:24 so basically a quantum erasure experiment taken to macroscopic level? 22:52:44 Yes 22:52:50 I think so 22:58:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:03:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:11:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:26:44 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:28:19 I broke the build :( 23:29:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:30:05 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:31:07 don't break the build 23:31:14 -!- monqy has joined. 23:31:24 hi monqy 23:31:35 hi shachaf 23:31:35 Sgeo: does your company have a funny hat or a cardboard cutout of justin bieber or a vat of acid or other such zany tradition for punishing people who break the build 23:31:47 firing squad 23:32:02 "Fools! You kill only a man." 23:32:09 did sgeo break the build 23:32:15 yuuuuuup 23:32:19 :-D 23:32:54 we've all broken the build in our time 23:32:58 even elliott 23:33:00 There was an email sent to several people about it. It's kind of embarrassing. Especially after my boss said the prior day to just make sure it builds, and commit it. 23:33:29 oerjan: imo make this channel +c 23:33:30 shachaf: uh I use dynamic langugaes, there is no build to break, that's why they are better 23:34:12 Sgeo: so whats the story behind committing & pushing this commit without checking it builds 23:34:24 Anyone ever heard of someone losing their doctorate before? 23:35:00 for cheating 23:35:09 It built and ran fine on my machine. But running it uses the 'local' profile, which I guess whatever automated process is used for checking that revisions build doesn't, or something 23:35:24 Bike: yes 23:35:25 like after actually getting it 23:35:33 i'd never heard of it before 23:35:46 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:50 (Well, I guess it technically built fine but didn't run) 23:35:51 plagiarism can make that happen 23:35:56 also «A German professor who claims to have developed “a self-consistent field theory which is used to derive at all known interactions of the potential vortex” will have at least two papers retracted, thanks to the scrutiny of a concerned economist» nooooo vortices 23:36:05 oerjan: yeah that's what happened in the case i was looking at 23:36:12 economists ruin everything, am i right 23:36:20 but according to random internet person, "Pretty sure people have been hanged for much less than it takes for someone to lose their PhD" 23:36:33 kmc: well they have the theory of ruin, they should be good at it 23:36:55 To give you a glimpse of this: According to this paper, magnetic “scalar waves” (an invention of Meyl unknown in temporary physics) emanate from the DNA of human cells and bring these cells in resonance with each other, their environment, and other human beings. This, according to Meyl, explains not only epigenetics, but also the workings of telepathy, telekinesis, and the human “aura”. Moreover, it reveals why love will never be measu 23:36:55 Incidentally, I am now convinced that, whatever the merits or lack thereof of dynamic typing, the stupidity of dynamic typing PEOPLE makes it suck 23:37:31 shachaf: why? 23:37:50 Sgeo: anyone who's committed enough to dynamic typing to be a "dynamic typing person" might be dumb yeah 23:37:55 and likewise for "static typing person" 23:38:02 but plenty of smart people use dynamic languages 23:38:05 Bike: PhDs aren't revoked. It just isn't done. If that idiot Behe still has a PhD, no one can ever lose one. 23:38:26 Gregor: this person gave his up semi-voluntarily so I was wondering about it. 23:38:32 i misread Behe as Bike at first 23:38:34 * Sgeo was more referring to this tendency to think it's a good idea to make clients check what type something is 23:38:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:38:45 * FireFly wonders who this Behe is 23:38:51 As in, APIs that return a collection unless there would be one item in the collection, in which case it returns the item 23:38:54 That sort of thing 23:38:54 "Michael J. Behe (pron.: /ˈbiːhiː/ bee-hee; born January 18, 1952) is an American biochemist, author, and intelligent design advocate." 23:39:06 Sgeo: yeah that's bad 23:39:16 a lot of people who use dynamic languages will agree that is bad 23:40:17 Bike: That last bit is the relevant part. 23:40:32 Gregor: so i gathered 23:40:33 «We’ve asked Meyl — who sells various equipment, including a 3,600-euro device that allows users to “construct an energy transmission line according to Tesla” — for comment and will update with anything we learn.» 23:40:49 It's in a library at work, it's in Clojure, I think it used to be in Python 23:40:51 Thatn sort of thing, I mean 23:41:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:41:23 Sgeo: an old version of `splice` from the JS standard library did that >.< 23:41:37 and yes, it's awful 23:42:09 "In one case, my adviser’s name ended up on a paper describing work that she had actually forbade me to do. She was going for tenure at the time." i keep reading about academia... 23:42:10 Bike: "it reveals why love will never be measu" 23:42:16 oerjan: measured. 23:42:33 darn i was so sure it was some other word 23:42:40 sorry! 23:44:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:44:51 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:50 measúil probably 23:46:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:53:47 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:56:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:59:01 -!- madbr has joined.