00:00:27 -!- heroux has joined. 00:05:15 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 00:11:15 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:12:30 -!- heroux has joined. 00:27:31 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:28:19 -!- heroux has joined. 00:36:37 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:37:43 -!- heroux has joined. 00:45:42 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:53:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:54:11 -!- heroux has joined. 01:29:50 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:35:27 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:36:40 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:38:18 -!- Bike has joined. 01:38:27 -!- heroux has joined. 02:01:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:02:54 -!- Bike has joined. 02:30:00 !bfjoust flow -+>--->(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]+>)*-1])*-1 02:30:03 Score for Lymia_flow: 38.8 02:30:09 The evolver, indeed works when you give it something that already works. 02:30:21 Unfortunately, it's not so good at making working things ex-nillo... 02:45:50 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:45:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:46:05 FUCK YES, Time Trumpet finished downloading 02:46:19 time for a fanfare 02:51:37 ok wow the thick of it is amazing 02:52:28 yes 02:52:58 wow is that an ubik reference in the topic 02:54:42 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 02:55:08 yes 02:58:48 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to necropumpkin. 02:59:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:00:18 i read that book yesterday 03:02:02 -!- Bike has joined. 03:05:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:09:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:14:25 !bfjoust flow >(+)*5(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]>)*-1])*-1 03:14:28 Score for Lymia_flow: 40.8 03:16:09 !bfjoust flow >(-)*5>(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]>)*-1])*-1 03:16:12 Score for Lymia_flow: 41.5 03:16:24 Automating "optmizing for current hill" yay :p 03:23:16 wooow, that's a really good score 03:23:22 for something so simle, too 03:23:24 *simple 03:23:47 It's probs abuse of programs being deterministic. 03:24:37 There's an, uh. VERY FATAL flaw 03:24:45 That can't be rectified without sending the score into the gutter x.x 03:25:03 It assumes that the target has a decoy-- and that there's at least one space between its first decoy and its flag. 03:25:38 decoy++ 03:26:13 * Lymia baps shachaf 03:32:30 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:32:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:39:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:53:42 !bfjoust flow >(+)*5>(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]>)*-1])*-1 03:53:44 Score for Lymia_flow: 40.7 04:00:42 !bfjoust flow >(-)*5>(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]->)*-1])*-1 04:00:45 Score for Lymia_flow: 42.0 04:06:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 04:22:32 !bfjoust flow >(-)*5>>(>[+>>([(+)*6[-]]->)*-1])*-1 04:22:35 Score for Lymia_flow: 42.2 04:29:50 ais523, fizzie. 04:29:53 I'm curious. 04:30:01 Given a point P in a Bfjoust program 04:30:15 I wonder if it'd be possible to construct a valid string s that is the continuation of the rest of the program. 04:30:20 Erm. 04:30:21 syntatical* 04:31:09 Meaning, like, [+P]+ => [+([+{}]+(.)*-1)%-1]+ 04:33:56 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:34:00 -!- Bike has joined. 04:42:41 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 04:42:58 -!- Bike_ has joined. 04:43:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:44:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:47:08 The idea is, in a language that compiles to BFJoust 04:47:19 -!- Lymia has left ("Hug~♪"). 04:47:22 -!- Lymia has joined. 04:48:02 You could write something like (try-for(300, -, try-for(300, +, nil))>)*-1 04:50:05 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 04:53:24 !bfjoust flow >(-)*5>>>(>[..>>([(+)*6[-]]->)*-1])*-1 04:53:27 Score for Lymia_flow: 43.0 05:07:39 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:09:23 -!- heroux has joined. 05:23:30 Now I made a AWK program to convert selector strings from Internet Quiz Engine into SQL codes, so that you can make polls. 05:24:34 AWK on Airships 05:25:02 What is that? 05:25:20 A web framework based on passing http requests through awk scripts. 05:27:46 Still better than Spring MVC? 05:28:40 * Bike plays laugh track 05:30:05 Is it just the entire HTTP request it received, and then it needs to response the entire response including header and data? It seem AWK to not be very good for that kinds of things. 05:30:24 Even if it is CGI, it still won't be very good for that purpose, I think. 05:33:02 You can do it if you want to, though. 05:34:21 isn't Spring supposed to be the /lightweight/ framework? 05:34:26 you gotta use Enterprise JavaBeans man 05:34:47 "Millions of developers use Spring to create high performing, easily testable, reusable code without any lock-in." 05:34:54 that last bit seems kind of weird, I guess it's a dig at C#? 05:35:12 does it not lock you into Spring 05:35:42 you've discovered their evil plot 05:35:53 D:!!! 05:35:59 ↁ: 05:36:34 Bike: i think being locked into an open source project doesn't count 05:36:46 why not 05:36:55 because that's how the people making these decisions think 05:36:56 kmc, "Java culture", and "light" are mutually incompatible. 05:36:59 :p 05:37:14 kmc: Well, at least you are locked in less than if it were not an open source project, but that doesn't make it not locked in 05:37:21 yeah 05:37:26 What is it called when the web framework is based on SQL instead of AWK or PHP or any other programming language? 05:37:35 locked into using monoids 05:37:38 it was so easy 05:37:43 i just can't quit you, monoids. 05:37:43 the first one's always free 05:37:44 kmc, the way Spring is structured, to the best of my understanding, is that the objects you create often don't have any explicit reliance on Spring 05:37:55 You use Spring, but the objects you make for it don't necessarily know about it 05:37:58 THE JOKE IS FREE MONOIDS 05:38:13 it's funny because in startuplandia we don't think about vendor lock-in at all, it's open source and we think about open source project lock-in 05:38:17 shachaf: That is easy to see. 05:38:44 Yeah shachaf. 05:38:47 tho, Microsoft New England Research & Development (MS NERD) was running a thing where they would give your web startup free licenses for IIS and MS SQL and whatever for n years 05:38:53 'First the joke must be caught.' / That is easy: a baby, I think, could have / caught it. 05:38:55 first hit's free kids 05:40:01 Did you know the most important feature of Haskell is list comprehensions? 05:40:12 kmc: I still don't need them though; I have better software than those ones. Shouldn't those people learn all of them to see what is better for them, at first, before buying, or even getting for *free*, the software? 05:41:11 shachaf.......... 05:41:18 somebody says? 05:41:22 shachaf: I don't think so. 05:41:33 kmc: i accidentally read the internet 05:41:38 bad mistake, will not repeat 05:41:42 This IRC is the internet. 05:41:46 zzo38: that takes too long and in startuplandia it is more important to move quickly than to make the absolute best technical decision at every step 05:42:11 kmc: Perhaps to *you* it is. 05:42:25 to people who want to make lots of money and build successful companies 05:42:43 kmc's secret ambition revealed 05:42:46 anyway though I think it's a hard sell for MSFT because there's a lot of advantage to using what everyone else is using 05:42:57 though also some advantage to using what nobody else is using 05:43:01 i bet you could make a cool argument about the "best" step at any given time not being the "best" step in some overall sense, with some kind of time-bound optimization problem solving formalism 05:43:01 shit is complicated, as they say 05:43:18 Lots of people are using Microsoft things. 05:43:18 Bike: Maybe it sometimes is. 05:43:27 Even lots of startups, I imagine. 05:43:27 shachaf: but not so much in web startupland I think. 05:43:35 well, I don't know... 05:43:49 I tend to think more people use Microsoft things than I typically see. 05:43:53 yes 05:43:57 I'm in too much of a bubble. :-( 05:44:04 it's true that none of my friends use Windows and approximately everyone uses Windows 05:44:13 but web startup land is also a bubble shachaf 05:44:45 I have to wonder how good Microsoft's SQL server/web server stuff, etc, actually is. 05:44:53 ... and if it's better enough to justify the cost >_> 05:44:54 It's not particularly obvious from using a website what it runs on, anyway. 05:45:05 shachaf, should be obvious by looking at the headers, right? 05:45:26 Lymia: I don't look at the headers of every website I use. 05:45:29 Unless they omitted that header 05:46:05 What are some web startupland places that use Microsoft things? 05:46:26 stackoverflow.com is one, I suppose. They don't have such a header. 05:47:18 I suspect you can sniff it with the approprate tools 05:47:30 Oh, sure. 05:47:32 nmap -V -p80 stackoverflow.com 05:47:50 -V might not be the right flag 05:47:52 nope 05:48:11 --version-all 05:48:18 Anyway I think it's a good default assumption that I'm in more of a bubble than I think I am. 05:48:47 Still, I want to make a good quality, rather than just earning money or whatever. 05:49:07 they're not even exclusive 05:49:58 What is not even exclusive? 05:51:03 shachaf: you know you're more bubbled than you think you are 05:51:30 bubbled bubbles, unbubbled bubbles, bubbled unbubbles, and unbubbled unbubbles 05:52:04 OK, well, I don't know what that is, but, OK, anyways, perhaps that is what it is. 05:52:26 yes Bike 05:53:49 it was that or a sex joke. 05:54:30 insert topical reference to donglegate 05:54:48 I may use some proprietary and surface-mount and so on if it has to and in case it might be change later on if it can be used without vendor-lock, like this. 05:54:53 http://www.piehead.com/blog/2011/05/why-startups-could-use-net-but-don%E2%80%99t this is a p. shit article 05:55:51 However, other than that, I would try to make it better, rather than being forced to use inferior stuff if there is the alternative. 05:55:56 any article that expects me to already acknowledge a consistent distinction between "developer culture" and "engineering culture" 05:55:59 is p. shit 05:56:56 kmc knows the truth: if your startup doesn't have a rockstar culture, it's already doomed to fail 05:57:15 sometimes I wonder if ninja rockstars is one of those things everyone makse fun of now and nobody actually says seriously 05:57:25 but then I look through craigslist job ads 05:58:02 perhaps those ads are being cool and saying it ironically 05:58:13 doubtful 05:58:27 well there's this: "Here's what we're looking for: Your peers describe you as a rockstar, but the term embarrasses you. Homejoy has a culture that revolves entirely around our customers and cleaners, not our egos." 05:58:58 'get better peers' 05:59:27 you're at a fork and you see two people, a rockstar and a ninja. you can ask one of them one question. 06:00:49 If the train conductors never collect my ticket, is it ok to reuse the ticket? 06:01:00 I think CF card is better than SD card, so I will use CF card. Blu-ray is full of stupid stuff (I mean, even other than the video format!), so I won't use that. 06:01:08 Sgeo: What is printed on the ticket? 06:01:09 Sgeo: doesn't it have a date on it? 06:01:13 It's "ok" in that you'll probably not get caught, it's not OK in that it's illegitimate 06:01:22 kmc, yes, but it expires in 60 days 06:01:32 i'm not categorically against stealing from The Man but I feel like public transit has a bad enough time as it is 06:01:41 that's why i don't lifehack my SFO trips with the BART lost ticket hack 06:01:45 Sgeo: what railway? 06:01:48 LIRR 06:02:05 BART lost ticket hack? 06:02:23 Sgeo: well, are the tickets intended to be used one time only? 06:02:32 !bfjoust flow >(-)*5>>>(>[..>>([(+)*6[-]]->)*-1])*-1 06:02:35 Score for Lymia_flow: 43.8 06:02:36 Bike, I think so yes 06:02:38 Evolver's no longer making progress. 06:02:49 Sgeo: there's your answer then 06:02:54 I am LIRR of the planet Omicron Persei 8 06:03:21 shachaf: it costs more to swipe out at SFO than to claim you lost your ticket and pay the fine 06:03:46 No! Precisely, what is everything that is printed on the ticket? Does it say, one fare? Does it say, the date/time? Does it say you can give it to someone else? 06:03:47 Oh. 06:04:04 It has the date and time that I purchased it 06:04:20 But it's usable for 60 days after purchase 06:04:32 It's one fare 06:04:44 is dates + thyme a good combination 06:04:56 i can't remember what thyme tastes like....... 06:04:59 zzo38: How's about MMC? 06:05:09 (yaaay, obscure formats. :P) 06:05:15 model model controller 06:05:40 just do model-model-model like http://sqlonrails.org/ 06:05:43 If it just says "one fare" then probably it is not allowed to reuse it, but, if you have to, then do 06:05:47 shachaf: tyne and wear 06:05:57 * pikhq_ is honestly confused why that format got replaced by SD cards 06:06:02 pikhq_: Is MMC compatible with SD in some case? 06:06:09 SD supports some kind of DRM and so the Powers that Be were pushing it 06:06:21 zzo38: An MMC card can be read in an SD reader, but not vice versa. 06:06:33 There is no *real* benefit to SD over MMC. 06:06:41 people do write whole web apps in the database 06:06:45 kmc: Yes, although that feature is never used, so it wastes capacity, I think. 06:06:45 Why is the NYC subway so much cheaper than BART? 06:06:52 Postgres supports JavaScript stored procedures 06:07:07 kmc: That is not what I mean; I mean pure SQL 06:07:10 https://code.google.com/p/plv8js/wiki/PLV8 06:07:39 pikhq_: Well, I supppose so, but still I prefer CF. If you want to use MMC and SD, you still can, since adapters exist for such purposes. 06:07:51 Amusingly, SD actually had a *lower* max card size than MMC. 06:07:59 (128 GiB vs 4 GiB) 06:09:17 pikhq_: SD does at least have one thing, which is a write protect switch, but the smaller SD cards lack that feature. It might be possible to make CF cards with such a switch, too, though. 06:09:28 It's also a fairly silly feature. 06:09:55 And I have read about the max capacity too; I think CF has more max capacity 06:09:56 But yeah, not surprised you prefer CF cards. Of the commonly supported flash formats it's the one most zzo38-friendly. 06:10:18 128 PiB 06:13:51 so did xkcd do anything interesting today 06:13:52 looks like no 06:14:47 Tomorrow I fly back to SFO. 06:15:12 will you ride the BART train 06:15:37 Probably. 06:15:44 p. good train 06:16:00 imo it should be synchroniszed with the caltrain 06:16:10 missing the caltrain is p. annoying 06:16:17 also the caltrain should come more often 06:16:21 CALTRAAAAAIN 06:16:30 caltrain is a p. shite train 06:17:07 when you're trying to get to palo alto caltrain has a distinct advantage over BART 06:17:10 inter-agency timed transfers........ not in god's america 06:17:14 namely that it goes to palo alto 06:17:35 when you're riding BART, not trying to get to palo alto has a distinct advantage 06:18:37 sadly i live in ₑₐₛₜ palo alto 06:18:53 ᵉᵃˢᵗ 06:19:08 how many copies of the latin alphabet are there in Unicode 06:19:24 not enough 06:19:32 where's the big .txt list of all unicode chars 06:19:35 Consolidated for cut-and-pasting purposes, the Unicode standard defines complete sub- and super-scripts for numbers and common mathematical symbols ( ... ) 06:19:43 a full superscript Latin lowercase alphabet except q ( ... ) 06:19:47 ... 06:19:51 a limited uppercase Latin alphabet ( ᴬ ᴮ ᴰ ᴱ ᴳ ᴴ ᴵ ᴶ ᴷ ᴸ ᴹ ᴺ ᴼ ᴾ ᴿ ᵀ ᵁ ⱽ ᵂ ), a few subscripted lowercase letters ( ₐ ₑ ₕ ᵢ ⱼ ₖ ₗ ₘ ₙ ₒ ₚ ᵣ ₛ ₜ ᵤ ᵥ ₓ ), and some Greek letters ( ᵅ ᵝ ᵞ ᵟ ᵋ ᶿ ᶥ ᶲ ᵠ ᵡ ᵦ ᵧ ᵨ ᵩ ᵪ ). 06:19:55 except q... 06:20:08 Why do they have strange sets like that? 06:20:14 http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt is a partial list 06:20:19 what the fuck 06:20:45 kmc: Did you think it would be complete? 06:20:51 How naïve. 06:21:19 Unicode is really crazy anyways, in many ways...... 06:22:57 why isn't C in the uppercase 06:23:08 jesus christ 06:23:08 C is a pretty good letter! 06:23:22 uh Bike it's spelled "p. good" 06:23:34 Bike lern2#esoteric 06:23:43 god i'm so tired and hungry and sleepy 06:23:54 "i just can't TAKE a lack of c's right now" 06:23:57 and hungry 06:24:01 imo sleep and eat and sleep and eat 06:24:08 hmmm 06:24:10 good plan 06:24:13 Are you in SF? Or was that last week/next week/something else? 06:24:16 no 06:24:17 hm unicode should have a character that's an apostrophe but instead of marking possession it marks multiplicity of a letter 06:24:26 it looks exactly the same though. 06:24:27 that was in the week of turning on of the bay bridge lights 06:24:34 cannot remember which week is before the other one 06:24:50 Oh, that was a while ago. 06:24:58 I remember now. 06:24:59 Unicode is just really dumb, mostly. 06:25:32 http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/things-youll-see-on-public-transportation 06:25:37 also i have glyphs for some of the lowercase letters but not all of them 06:25:39 cool 06:26:44 lens 3.9 is out 06:26:46 everyone upgrade 06:26:53 everyone = {Bike,zzo38} 06:27:01 whenever I see this kind of thing I always try to identify what system each photo is from 06:28:35 nyc mta: 1, 8, 9, 18, 19, 25, 26 06:29:51 lacmta: 4; london (?) 11; BART: 20 06:30:12 are you.......... a trainspotter 06:30:25 insert quote from movie that i haven't actually seen 06:30:28 Once I had a dream that the first computer game ever invented was called "One Draw" and it was implementing a card game. One of the features of this game is that the suit of clubs has three dots (whenever a club was played, the referee would exclaim, "It has three dots!"). However there is many errors in the game, for example half of one card might be a different card, or something like that 06:30:51 -!- carado_ has joined. 06:30:52 but you know the soundtrack, and it's a good soundtrack. 06:30:53 1D6B LATIN SMALL LETTER UE [ᵫ] 06:30:58 I didn't know about that one. 06:30:59 amazing 06:31:15 sigh isn't ü a good enough ue 06:31:33 ï certainly am 06:31:34 ᴾᴱᴺᴵ- there's no S!! 06:31:57 fuck i ought to sleep right now 06:32:01 good night #esoteric 06:32:06 keep flying that freak flag 06:32:20 g'neegan 06:32:31 ♞ 06:48:08 How can someone meet you in a location they cannot find? 06:52:10 "This is not a fight. The reason the lights are red is because my other eye is looking at another subway train." ...what? 06:54:09 What is your dream today? 06:54:31 I don't remember. I found it unsettling, though. 06:56:17 -!- kyyni has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:02:55 -!- kyyni has joined. 07:08:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:27:02 I made a Magic: the Gathering cards that is "Exile all indestructible permanents" 07:29:46 How do you make a cards? Do you mean that you made a card? 07:30:00 Yes, like that. 07:30:05 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:30:22 Another card is "Creatures with abilities having {Q} in their cost have vigilance" 07:30:28 ({Q} is the untap symbol) 07:31:10 Another one means "You are allowed to attack yourself and/or planeswalkers you control" 07:32:43 I don't want to have to wake up at 5am 07:32:44 fuckfuckfuck 07:38:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:52:18 I have a list of "You know you've been in Japan too long when..." and I have never been in Japan but I do a few of the things on that list (even before I found this list), such as underlining words with a ruler. 07:52:27 Do you underline words with a ruler? 07:53:04 No. 07:53:08 I have never been in Japan. 07:53:41 Nor have I. I don't think it is necessary to be in Japan to underline words with a ruler; it is necessary to have a ruler, though. 07:54:52 It is also necessary to underline words. 07:55:29 Yes. 07:58:36 Do 1000000 push-ups each day, 1000001 in the morning and -1 at night. 07:59:00 zzo38: Good point. 08:04:14 It is difficult to repair a watch while falling from an airplane. 08:04:38 But that is what you have to do to win at this TV game show 08:05:37 Which game show? 08:05:41 I don't know. 08:06:10 It isn't a game show; it is actually your *job*. 08:06:20 oh no! 08:06:25 oh no! 08:06:47 /!\ 08:06:50 /⚠\ 08:06:52 /⚠\ 08:07:48 -!- carado has joined. 08:07:51 Did you underline that with a ruler? 08:08:35 No. 08:08:39 I've never been in Japan. 08:09:16 But you don't have to! 08:10:24 fizzie, I'm curious 08:10:25 Does 08:10:36 (((({+})%0)%0)%0)%0 08:10:40 Do anything to gearlance? 08:10:45 <[mbm]> 08:11:58 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:12:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:16:42 Someone once made up the text for Magic: the Gathering card, "Goblins cannot reach Nirvana". 08:16:55 (It is an enchantment card named "Nirvana", with no other effect) 08:17:09 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:19:00 -!- heroux has joined. 08:22:27 Lymia: %'s and *'s are equivalent as far as it's concerned, so that should just be (((({+})%0)*0)*0)*0 and the outermost loop would be deleted. (Technically, it might turn into (((()*0+()*0)*0)*0)*0 as an intermediate step.) 08:23:33 Lymia: Come to think of it, I'm not entirely certain the "remove contentless loops" will do the right thing when nested {}s are involved. Fortunately those aren't used much. They bind kind of strangely. 08:23:36 zzo38: wouldn't that be correctly templated as "If Nirvana is a creature with flying, Goblins cannot block it unless they have flying"? 08:23:45 or perhaps "Goblins with reach cannot block it" 08:23:50 I don't think many goblins have reach anyway, though 08:24:33 ais523: I don't know if whoever made that had a meaning, but I made up the meaning of it, that if Nirvana is a creature with flying then Goblins with reach cannot block it unless they also have flying 08:24:43 Lymia: (Doing (a(b{c{d}e}f)%2g)%3 is legal and equivalent to abbcabbcabbcdeffgeffgeffg.) 08:24:57 zzo38: yeah, that's the only sensible meaning within the rules 08:25:01 but it's templated really badly 08:25:10 ais523: Yes I know 08:25:25 that said, it needs at least two extra cards in order to make an enchantment into a creature with flying 08:25:42 and probably requires one extra card (as well as the goblin) to make a goblin with reach 08:25:48 so the situation is unlikely to happen often 08:25:56 I know this situation is very unlikely. 08:28:14 I *think* (a({c{d}e})%2g)%3 currently would turn into (a()*0c{d}e()*0g)%3 which would do the right thing. And... (({{d}e}f)%2g)%3 into (()*0)*0d(e(f)*2g)*3, which also seems like it'd work out. 08:28:48 ais523: You probably know better, are nested {}s used in real-word business bfjoust code? 08:28:51 Which card texts could be compiled by computer into a computer program with the same meaning? 08:29:08 fizzie: they aren't, but I think we agreed that if they have a meaning, the inside % matches the outside {} 08:29:32 Yes, that's what gearlance does (should do). I was just wondering. 09:01:18 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 09:01:31 Waking up hellishly early just so I have 3 hours to get ready. Good idea or bad idea? 09:02:13 Sgeo: for what? and is it likely that you'd spend 3 hours getting ready? 09:02:32 normally for important things, I time how long it would take to get ready, through experience, then add half an hour 09:02:50 Ready for work. And it's likely that if I had only 2 hours to get ready, then I'd end up panicking and rushing 09:03:00 first day at a new job? 09:03:10 Second day 09:03:49 starting early makes sense until you know how long it takes to get ready 09:04:31 I had so little sleep for yesterday that I ended up zoning out while reading about Spring 09:04:47 I did not get enough sleep tonight, so I'm worried it will be worse 09:06:24 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 09:06:25 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 09:06:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:06:48 * itsy used to get up at 4:30am to start work at 6:30am (when I had a 15 minute journey) 09:07:45 when going to work, I consistently leave 80 minutes if going in by bus, or 50 for going in by train 09:08:01 ais523, have you ever had to deal with Spring? 09:08:14 no 09:13:15 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:17:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:17:40 1 hour of the 3 hours is reserved as failing to actually accomplish anything for the first hour after waking up 09:17:49 (Except eating. I do manage to eat sometimes) 09:18:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:19:28 -!- heroux has joined. 09:19:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:22:15 fizzie, I was thinking about something related to that. 09:22:29 If the consulting company gives me a laptop and a case, is the case likely to be waterproof? 09:22:35 I was wondering if it'd be possible to construct a continuation, effectively, from a point in a BFJoust program-- nested {}s will almost certainly be involved. 09:22:43 If not, then the laptop they gave me is probably ruined :( 09:22:49 The purpose would be for generating some constructions in a higher level language compiling to BFJoust 09:24:47 Something like, (try-for(300, +, nil)>)*-1 -> ((([+{{}}])%300)*-1)%300 09:24:54 Erm 09:25:01 Something like, (try-for(300, +, nil)>)*-1 -> ((([+{{}}])%300)*-1)%-1 09:25:31 Lymia: I don't think it's possible in general 09:25:36 If you intend for the %s to bind to the {}s, that does not look like something you could write, also. 09:25:49 well, except via the very wasteful method of duplicating the entire program for each control flow operator 09:26:09 Sgeo: it's possible for a case to be waterproof, but did they have any reason to believe you would try to use water on it? 09:26:09 ((([+{{}}])%300)*-1)%-1 has the {}s bound to the inner two sets of parentheses. 09:26:15 if not, they wouldn't have a reason to make sure you get a waterproof laptop 09:26:28 ais523, yeah. 09:26:30 That's the problem. 09:26:45 olsner, I don't know. Maybe they don't believe in rain or something 09:26:56 You can't do (a(b{c}d)*N e)%M with {}s bound to the outer parens, in general; what would that expand to? 09:27:04 maybe they believe in you using a bag of some sort to carry the laptop 09:27:07 Sgeo: was it just rained on? Or was it dropped in a puddle or something? 09:27:17 Heavily rained on 09:27:21 also, most electronic components work fine after they dry out, even if they get wet 09:27:27 removing the battery will help in the case of a laptop 09:27:28 olsner, the case counts as a bag I assume? 09:27:36 in general, if it hasn't exploded already, that's a good sign 09:27:50 most laptop cases aren't perfectly waterproof, but will substantially reduce the amount of water reaching the laptop 09:27:56 I'm not sure what "case" means here, so I can't tell ... did the laptop get wet? 09:28:04 I don't know if the laptop got wet 09:29:21 ais523, I'm certain that you can calculate a series of instructions that will do the job 09:29:33 The problem is if it can always be encoded without huge amounts of reptition 09:29:47 Lymia: it can't be, I'm basically 100% sure, if you need it cycle-accurate (and you usually do) 09:29:53 Sgeo: why don't you examine the laptop to see whether it's wet? 09:30:05 I know when I took my laptop home from work in very heavy rain 09:30:12 the laptop itself stayed dry, but the charger got wet 09:30:18 so I had to wait for it to dry out 09:30:19 Taking the laptop out of the case is difficult 09:30:27 ais523, what construction would prevent that? 09:30:40 I could look at it when I get to work, I gues 09:30:42 guess 09:31:07 Lymia: I don't think there is a general method for doing what you're planning to do 09:31:32 I'm not sure either-- without a gigabyte program 09:31:59 imagine something as simple as "do >+, then wait for the current cell to become zero, then wait that many cycles again, then do something else" 09:32:13 the only implementation I know of that involves making a huge number of copies of the "do something else" 09:32:50 Right 09:32:55 And you need 100000 copies in the worst case. 09:34:08 yeah 09:34:12 well, 50000 09:34:22 past then, you can use a fixed 50000-cycle wait 09:34:32 because it's going to take you off the end of the cycle limit regardless 09:34:46 actually, EgoBot currently can't handle a nesting depth greater than 256 09:34:49 so you'd have to stop at 256 cycles 09:35:08 or do what I did in anticipation (the first one), and look for all the cases that were actually used on the hill 09:35:16 and remove the others to save on nesting 09:35:22 Well 09:35:27 with the result that anticipation often won't do anything against newer programs 09:35:34 Without features to transform code, there's still a macro language at its core 09:35:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:35:50 I'd need to see if it'd actually be useful though :p 09:36:45 -!- heroux has joined. 09:39:52 ais523, I had an idea that I have no idea where to begin with implementing 09:40:10 Lymia: this is common 09:40:24 asking for help may sometimes help, but not always 09:40:32