00:00:30 Arc_Koen: maybe the reason for the split was shutting down the server you were on? 00:00:33 or that server realized it was no longer in the network and kicked everyone out? 00:01:07 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:01:11 or you were just accidentally 00:01:14 Bike: do you read me. 00:01:17 do you see the words I am saying. 00:01:25 -!- jix has joined. 00:01:30 are you asleep 00:01:35 :( 00:02:11 what is love 00:02:41 -!- dessos_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 00:02:42 -!- Sanky has joined. 00:02:55 -!- comex` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:03:03 pong 00:03:16 did all my messages just come in at once 00:03:24 No. That would be dumb. 00:03:29 i am dumb 00:03:34 No, lambdabot is dumb. 00:03:39 no 00:03:44 i love lambdabot 00:03:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:03:46 -!- augur has joined. 00:03:46 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:03:47 @botsnack 00:03:48 :) 00:03:55 So do I, but sometimes you have to acknowledge the dumb. 00:03:58 -!- Mariu has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:03:58 * Bike hugs lambdabot 00:04:39 * Lymia feeds lambdabot cake 00:04:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:05:22 -!- augur has joined. 00:06:27 -!- comex has joined. 00:07:20 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:07:38 > fix $ \(a,b) -> (0,0) 00:07:42 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:07:45 > fix $ \~(a,b) -> (0,0) 00:07:47 :1:7: parse error on input `\~' 00:07:54 > fix $ \(~(a,b)) -> (0,0) 00:07:56 (0,0) 00:08:22 > fix id 00:08:27 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:08:40 but what is the fixed point... of EXISTENCE 00:08:56 i guess it is nothing. deep 00:09:00 Bike: how is the lyah reading going!!! 00:09:14 let me check 00:09:20 i went through the FFI part of the standard 00:09:45 that sounds like a terrible idea for a newbie 00:09:46 <3 FFI 00:09:59 it seems pretty solid, at least 00:10:00 though the coolest things in GHC's FFI aren't in the language standard 00:10:13 or at least some useful tricks aren't 00:10:30 nothing anybody does in haskell seems to be in the standard and not in ghc (note this is exaggeration get it huh) 00:10:32 like the fact that you can pass a ByteString to a C function with zero copying 00:11:28 Bike: i cannot parse that 00:12:00 just uh, the standard doesn't seem that important, so much as whatever GHC does 00:12:07 i think the standard is important 00:12:17 it tells you which parts of GHC are considered bedrock and which are subject to the whims of the GHC devs 00:12:29 there is value in a language spec even if there's one dominant implementation 00:12:47 yeah, i guess. 00:12:49 well the bedrock isn't obeyed and the whims of the GHC devs are controlled by necessity 00:12:51 it prevents them from doing what Perl and PHP do where core semantics change in point releases at the whims of the devs 00:13:00 though probably not being idiots also prevents them from doing that 00:13:03 You can tell how much kmc dislikes statistics by how annoyed he is at every standard deviation. 00:13:12 ;_; 00:13:19 GHC does deviate from the spec in at least one major way though 00:13:19 "X is defined by Y equations" > "here is the behavior of X" most of the time 00:13:29 which is enabled by default and can't be disabled 00:13:35 Num superclasses? 00:13:38 well what is it 00:13:41 which is that (Num t) no longer implies (Eq t) and (Show t) 00:13:50 which can break some standards-following code 00:13:50 oh. is that major 00:13:58 it's not really actually major 00:14:00 f :: (Num t) => t -> String; f = show 00:14:08 that types in H2010 but not in GHC 00:14:08 like it's incompatible obviously 00:14:18 you will find real world code that breaks 00:14:21 not a ton of it but it does exist 00:14:34 actually none because there is no real world code in haskell, lolololololololololol 00:14:47 i would very much like for ghc to deviate from the standard more 00:15:00 like there is no excuse for Monad not to have the Applicative superclass 00:15:03 -!- fizzie` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:15:05 i like extensions but deviations that can't be disabled is a bigger deal 00:15:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:15:26 question is it possible to mention haskell without complaining about people complaining about "real languages" etc in a sarcastic way 00:15:31 kmc: I don't think Num has a Show restriction in GHC 00:15:38 Bike: kmc just likes complaining 00:15:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:15:41 which is understandable 00:15:43 yes 00:15:44 I like complaining too 00:15:45 and you can't realistically do that with Num because then haskell2010:Prelue.Num and base:Prelude.Num are different classes in the compiler and libraries can't be intermixed 00:15:56 FreeFull: yes that's what we were just talking about? 00:16:11 kmc: How should breaking changes like that be made? 00:16:12 when i become a famous whatever i become i'm gong to write all my code in snobol and make people translate it into whatever they use 00:16:17 shachaf: I don't know 00:16:22 i will be a legendary ass 00:16:26 kmc: the standard that is woefully inadequate to interpret the meaning of all haskell code (because even if you don't use extensions, your dependencies do) should not hold back haskell in practice 00:16:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:16:49 I think it would be good if there was more than one Haskell compiler. 00:16:58 it is a fairly niche language, keeping the Monad hierarchy in the stone age because it's not written down on a piece of paper for a standardisation process that moves glacially and uncertainly is a one-way ticket to stagnation 00:17:03 Write one 00:17:07 i wish there was more clarity (especially for beginners) on which extensions are necessary and proper for everyone, and which ones are batshit stuff added last week 00:17:07 kmc's point would be much less pedantic if anything except GHC was actually viable. 00:17:21 Or skip Haskell and write an Idris implementation 00:17:21 I think my point doesn't have anything to do with the number of language implementations 00:17:25 but whatever 00:17:28 if there was actually an active haskell standardisation process that incorporated more than the most trivial of extensions and published fairly regularly then deviations would be worse 00:17:30 Haskell 2010 isn't a formal spec anyway 00:17:35 as it is they are necessary 00:17:36 SML 4 lyfe 00:17:51 when you say "formal" are you talking about denotational semantics or something because, seriously 00:18:05 like haskell 2010 is frankly a joke in terms of the progress made in practical haskell vs. the progress the standard made over 12 years 00:18:07 "the only kind of semantics" 00:18:20 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:18:21 operational semantics are for lame-os not mathy at all shachaf!! 00:18:33 Bike: "glad we can agree" 00:18:40 i need to cut down on the exclamation points 00:18:41 Bike: i'm talking about what mathematicians mean by "formalism" 00:18:42 and quotes. 00:18:42 like 00:18:44 symbols 00:18:47 and rules for manipulating them 00:18:52 you can do formal operational semantics too 00:18:54 eck 00:19:19 every certifying compiler for C has a formalized operational semantics of x86 code, mechanized in Coq or something 00:19:31 mmmmm certifying compilers 00:19:37 down boy 00:19:48 How well does formalizing x86 even work? 00:20:01 not very 00:20:08 you have to stick to some subset 00:20:10 kmc: it's only ppc that's been done afaik 00:20:23 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Gregor. 00:20:23 also compcert like fails to do something dumb 00:20:29 like idk goto into the middle of switch or something 00:20:31 NaCl sticks to a subset such that proof carying code isn't necessary 00:20:35 but it's something relevant enough that it can't compile anything real 00:20:41 you can check the program directly rather than checking a proof output by the compiler 00:20:43 every certifying compiler for C has a formalized operational semantics of x86 code, mechanized in Coq or something // all one of them. 00:20:55 is it ghc 00:20:59 yes 00:21:07 what sort of x86 instructions are "problematic" for formalized x86? 00:21:18 great hexcellent c (compiler) 00:21:32 periodic reminder that ghc's full name is The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System 00:21:33 Is it really the individual instructions? I would have guessed it was the shitload of weird state 00:21:41 i like how there are approximately 0 static analysis tools for Haskell despite people constantly going on about how it's a perfect language to reason about mechanically 00:21:52 setting aside the GHC type checker 00:21:56 doesn't ghc const- right. 00:22:01 i think kmc is on a quest to go on about haskell myths more than the myths themselves 00:22:06 maybe so 00:22:20 yes, weird state, non-aligned instructions 00:22:24 well, you know that old saying, formal analysis whatever will only matter when you can do it without understanding shit 00:22:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:22:38 @quote formalist 00:22:38 No quotes match. Take a stress pill and think things over. 00:22:43 also there are just a lot of instructions and variations of the architecture 00:22:45 :-( 00:23:22 @remember SaulGorn A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. 00:23:26 Fiora: like as an x86 programmer you know better than anybody how complicated it is to understand, and as a programmer you know how hard mapping "thing i understand -> thing the computer does" is. 00:23:30 Okay. 00:23:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:23:50 it's not hard to write x86 assembly though, it's just hard to reason about arbitrary weird x86 assembly 00:23:57 and the same is true for static analysis 00:23:57 yes. 00:24:09 it's easier for a compiler to produce a binary and understand what it does, even certify it 00:24:11 Who's Saul Gorn 00:24:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 00:24:16 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 00:24:16 -!- SDr has quit (*.net *.split). 00:24:28 A pioneer of something something. 00:24:28 than to analyze some obfuscated malware you found on russian rapidshare 00:24:33 Bike: yeah, that's why it confused me a little bit, since, like, if you're generating the assembly, you shouldn't have to avoid some instructions 00:24:34 With a wikiquote. 00:24:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:24:52 only for analyzing existing assembly it might be an issue I'd think? 00:24:54 Fiora: well like, kmc mentioned misaligned instructions; the nacl subset doesn't have those at all 00:25:06 nacl isn't proof carrying like he said though, right? 00:25:13 yeah, and this means that indirect jumps have to be preceded by a mask instruction iirc 00:25:19 yeah with NaCl the proof is implicit 00:25:30 "it's in nacl so it works"? 00:25:31 "correct by inspection" 00:25:35 oh. 00:25:36 yeah, nacl does a thing where no instructions can cross 32 byte boundaries 00:25:41 and all calls and stuff are aligned to 32 bytes 00:25:46 I wonder if that runs into godel problems. 00:25:47 which avoids the trick of being able to jump to the middle of an instruction 00:25:54 mmm JIT spraying 00:26:07 keep your fetishes out of here sir 00:26:10 hehe 00:26:11 and execute misaligned instructions, which lets you smuggle in instructions you weren't supposed to be able to 00:26:15 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 00:26:34 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd n)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even n))))) 5 00:26:37 Why does that not work 00:26:55 it looks gross 00:26:56 PaX's implementation of amd64 KERNEXEC (preventing ring0 from jumping to user code) is also based on masking indirect jumps 00:27:22 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd n)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even n))))) 0 00:27:23 oh mutual recursion 00:27:36 i'm so glad oleg wrote a mutfix combinator for me so i could avoid thinking about it 00:27:57 nacl is actually kinda cool, it's really impressive how little it has to require to prove things safe 00:27:59 I think lambdabot's dead. I tried it on TryHaskell and it worked for 0 but not for anything else 00:28:10 @botsnack 00:28:15 oh no 00:28:37 lambdabot caught in netsplit? 00:28:46 jconn, what do you thing? 00:28:54 ) 'This was a triumph' 00:29:06 ,,, 00:29:17 Sgeo|web: good point 00:31:20 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:31:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:31:59 -!- jix has joined. 00:34:15 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:34:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 00:34:43 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 00:35:11 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 00:35:35 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:35:40 -!- Vorpal_ has quit (Excess Flood). 00:36:06 -!- Vorpal has joined. 00:36:33 -!- HackEgo has joined. 00:36:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:37:39 fwiw there is no other side of the split 00:37:44 It's just disconnected 00:37:58 a netcut 00:38:57 So it goes. 00:39:33 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:40:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:40:27 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:40:53 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 00:41:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:41:58 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 00:42:02 there is no dark side of the moon really 00:42:05 matter of fact it's all dark 00:42:57 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:43:10 whoa, dude 00:43:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:43:50 kmc: i too have consumed this cultural product 00:43:55 Yeah, especially the part that's reflecting sunlight and thus not dark by definition. 00:45:23 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:47:36 nom 00:47:41 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd n)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even n))))) 5 00:47:43 *Exception: stack overflow 00:47:49 wut 00:47:55 @tell ais523 2013/03/25 00:46:24 [error] 23940#0: *5967814 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function getVar() on a non-object in /srv/esolangs.org/www/mediawiki/extensions/AbuseFilter/special/SpecialAbuseLog.php on line 281" while reading response header from upstream, client: 95.146.57.2, server: esolangs.org, request: "GET /wiki/Special:AbuseLog/33 HTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php5-fpm.sock: 00:47:56 Consider it noted. 00:47:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:47:57 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd n)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even n))))) 0 00:47:59 False 00:48:10 @tell ais523 this is the error I get when trying to view the broken abuse log page 00:48:10 Consider it noted. 00:48:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:48:30 > let x = x in x 00:48:33 @tell ais523 that line is just "if ( $vars->getVar( 'action' )->toString() == 'edit' ) {" -- I think I'll just try updating the wiki 00:48:33 Consider it noted. 00:48:34 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:50:16 :t let x = x in x 00:50:17 t 00:50:27 :t let x = x in x 00:50:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:50:34 t 00:50:45 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd n)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even n))))) 1 00:50:46 *Exception: stack overflow 00:50:54 dude. 00:50:58 Why is lambdabot outputting t 00:51:00 are you even reading the code you are asking it to evaluate. 00:51:02 look at it. 00:51:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:52:48 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:55:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:55:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:56:40 elliott: oh 00:56:58 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else not (odd (n-1))),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else not (even (n-1)))))) 5 00:56:59 False 00:57:31 uh 00:57:49 another hint: even n = not (odd n). 00:57:51 Sgeo|web: lose the nots 00:57:55 then look at your selse branch. 00:57:58 *else 00:58:14 the weird thing is i went through this same thing myself yesterday. what's up with that 00:59:04 > snd (fix (\(~(even, odd)) -> ((\n -> if n == 0 then True else odd (n-1)),(\n -> if n == 0 then False else even (n-1))))) 5 00:59:05 True 01:02:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:03:28 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 01:05:38 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:07:19 FreeFull: because t is the default type variable used when there are no type annotations involved that it can borrow variable names from 01:07:23 -!- DH____ has joined. 01:07:47 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:07:47 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:07:47 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 01:08:09 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 01:08:17 :t let x = x; x :: fnord in x 01:08:18 fnord 01:08:39 -!- myndzl has joined. 01:08:55 :t let x = x; x :: fnord in (x, x) 01:08:56 (t, t1) 01:09:01 oops 01:09:27 :t let x = x; x :: a in (x, x) 01:09:28 (t, t1) 01:10:12 seems it sometimes gets used even when there _is_ an annotation. vagaries of unification i guess. 01:10:52 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:10:57 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:11:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 01:19:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:19:24 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 01:19:48 :t let x = x; x :: argle bargle in (x, x) 01:19:48 now what 01:19:48 @ping 01:19:48 HELP 01:19:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:19:48 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 01:19:48 -!- abumirqaan has quit (Changing host). 01:19:48 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 01:20:27 pong 01:20:27 (argle bargle, argle1 bargle1) 01:20:37 yay 01:22:33 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 01:27:31 we should be the other kind of esoteric, then we could put a curse on the ddoser or something. 01:27:56 :t let x = x; x :: (lots of sugar, whole fat milk, whipped eggs) -> delicious baked goods in x 01:27:57 There's a DDoSer? 01:27:58 verily i say unto you, ddoser: cut this shit out, it's boring 01:28:01 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 01:28:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 01:28:04 Sgeo|web: did you get the global notice 01:28:08 Sgeo|web: said so in status message 01:28:25 wonder who's doing it 01:28:28 Bike: no 01:28:48 -!- Sanky has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:29:48 @ping 01:29:59 kloeri(~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri)- [Global Notice] Hi again. The network issues is caused by a DDoS attack and we're working with our sponsors to have it filtered. Depending on how bored the attacker is it could be a while before everything is back to normal however. Sorry about the stability issues caused by this. 01:30:04 lambdabot seems ddosed enough 01:31:38 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:31:49 parse error on input `of' 01:31:49 pong 01:32:05 Lymia: oops 01:32:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:32:16 that be a keyword 01:32:43 Aww 01:32:55 -!- myndzl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:36:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:37:32 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:38:53 -!- myndzi has joined. 01:39:07 -!- heroux has joined. 01:39:08 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 01:40:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:40:52 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:41:07 -!- abumirqaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:41:54 -!- Sanky has joined. 01:41:57 -!- Sanky has quit (Excess Flood). 01:43:24 -!- Sanky has joined. 01:45:52 -!- myndzi has joined. 01:50:46 Depending on how bored the attacker is it could be a while before everything is back to normal however. 01:50:53 hmm that's reassuring 01:51:13 I was just watching that movie where there is a bomb on a plane 01:52:00 isn't that most movies 01:52:25 I could imagine the captain informing the passengers "ladies and gentlemen, we appear to have a device aboard the plane. it might be a bomb. we're working with the fbi to have it disarmed. depending on how bored the bomber is it could go off any second, or not at all." 01:52:46 well maybe, but in that one there's nothing else to the movie 01:53:11 so, most movies 01:54:29 @ping 01:54:44 i can't tell whether it's my connection or lambdabot's that's broken 01:54:45 help 01:54:56 imo lambdabot's 01:56:11 @messages 01:56:52 -!- surma has joined. 01:57:00 definitely imo lambdabot 01:57:23 maybe it's lambdabot doing the ddosing 01:57:29 -!- Sanky has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:00:13 `welcome surma 02:00:14 pong 02:00:16 surma: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:00:45 You don't have any new messages. 02:00:52 well thanks 02:01:09 waiting such a long time FOR NO MESSAGES 02:01:23 don't you just hate it when that happens 02:01:59 -!- Sanky has joined. 02:02:04 now I feel like when that girl was supposed to call me and then didn't 02:02:38 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 02:03:42 i vaguely recall that it's stereotypically never the girl's job to call 02:06:15 well I'm working based on my experience 02:06:35 that is probably better 02:07:10 the girl was attracted to me in 100% of the situations where she was the one who called 02:07:45 good, good. 02:07:49 the percentages in the situations where I was the one to call aren't nearly as high 02:09:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 02:10:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:14:01 -!- myndzi has joined. 02:14:25 ) 'are we recovered?' 02:15:45 i'm afraid jconn made the final sacrifice, Sgeo 02:18:54 !bfjoust have_faith_she_will_call >>>>>++++++++++([]++++++++++>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<<)*-1 02:19:02 ​Score for Arc_Koen_have_faith_she_will_call: 0.0 02:19:16 ok that was supposed to be low but I had faith for not so low 02:19:21 that one kind of looks like it commits suicide 02:19:46 well first it only works if the tape is 14 or something 02:19:52 indeed a little too left-leaning 02:20:09 oh 02:20:11 right 02:20:12 note that fixed-tape-size BF Joust is trivial/uninteresting... so it's hard to do much with warriors that assume it 02:20:21 !bfjoust have_faith_she_will_call >>>>>++++++++++([]++++++++++>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<)*-1 02:20:25 ​Score for Arc_Koen_have_faith_she_will_call: 0.0 02:20:38 MUCH BETTER 02:20:46 INDEED 02:21:04 you may just as well join a convent at this rate 02:21:09 elliott: I had some foolish hope that I could win on 14 and tie on enough other lengths 02:22:02 btw you might want to try it in egojsout or such 02:22:05 and look at breakdown.txt 02:22:22 Arc_Koen: that [] will not let you out until the opponent clears it 02:22:29 that's the idea 02:23:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:24:09 hmmmm 02:25:00 ohhhh right you mean it's too late when I see it 02:26:12 not sure 02:26:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:27:01 !bfjoust maybe_without_a_power_of_2 >>>>>++++++++++([]++++++++++>>>>>>>>>-----<<<<<<<<<)*-1 02:27:05 ​Score for oerjan__maybe_without_a_power_of_2: 0.0 02:27:13 nope 02:27:50 well if it doesn't divide 128 it's hopeless 02:28:16 ...you're assuming the opponent doesn't tweak their flag? 02:28:23 yup 02:28:54 well otherwise there is no point in using ()*-1 as if it were an actual loop 02:30:27 but [] doesn't work anyway. it can only see the flag is 0 on the second turn, when it's already over 02:31:17 okay 02:33:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Excess Flood). 02:34:48 -!- oerjan_ has quit (Quit: Gondwanaland). 02:34:50 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:35:17 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:35:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:35:30 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 02:35:39 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 02:35:54 -!- myndzi has joined. 02:36:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:38:43 -!- kmc has set topic: The 17th vigintile welcoming channel on Freenode. You have been warned. | Safe when used as directed. | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for chips. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:39:43 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:39:46 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.4 02:39:47 !bfjoust flow +>>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:39:50 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 28.9 02:39:53 !bfjoust flow +>>->>->+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:39:56 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 28.7 02:40:02 !bfjoust flow ->>-->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:40:05 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.2 02:40:10 !bfjoust flow ---->>-->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:40:13 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 27.9 02:40:18 !bfjoust flow ---->>++>>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:40:21 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 28.3 02:40:22 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 02:40:25 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.4 02:40:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:40:47 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:42:07 -!- dbelange has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:42:41 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:45:47 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 726 seconds). 02:45:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:46:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:47:01 Lymia: are you just spamming with the exact same program? oO 02:47:22 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:48:28 there are small differences, as you can see by just glancing at the lengths 02:49:31 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 02:52:56 oh, I thought the difference in score was due to the hill changing 02:53:13 definitely time to go to bed :) 02:53:26 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 02:54:58 -!- dbelange has joined. 03:00:37 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 03:01:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:02:56 > toEnum 4.7 03:04:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:05:49 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:06:43 No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) 03:06:43 arising from the lit... 03:08:31 okay ignoring that incompetence for a second, Enum for floats seems quite weird. 03:09:03 > fromEnum 4.7 03:09:05 4 03:09:05 Bike: it is 03:09:09 Bike: it is to make ranges work 03:09:13 > [0,0.1..10] 03:09:14 [0.0,0.1,0.2,0.30000000000000004,0.4000000000000001,0.5000000000000001,0.60... 03:09:21 > succ 3 03:09:22 4 03:09:23 my kind of range 03:09:24 ^ it literally does this 03:09:32 it's very bad & a big wart in the design 03:09:37 done v v badly 03:09:38 please ignore it 03:09:52 yeah lyam already said to, i'm just wondering what possessed them to come up with that 03:10:06 i mean there is an actual enumeration for floats! it's just kind of useless for this 03:10:20 lyah 03:10:29 learn yourself an ML 03:10:56 well it's design by committee 03:10:59 there are always goign to be flaws 03:11:34 let me rephrase. I don't mean "why are there flaws" because indeed of course there are going to be flaws. I mean "what was the idea behind this particular flaw" 03:12:23 oh 03:12:28 ok the answer is that humans are stupid 03:12:30 hope this helps 03:12:34 rage 03:12:44 i mean there are 500 page long email threads about how ranges should be done and separated from Enum and shit 03:12:49 it's just that you want to be able to do like 03:12:52 > [LT..] 03:12:54 :1:6: parse error on input `]' 03:12:56 um 03:12:58 > [LT ..] 03:12:59 [LT,EQ,GT] 03:13:02 and 03:13:05 > [False ..] 03:13:06 [False,True] 03:13:07 and 03:13:09 > [0..] 03:13:10 [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,... 03:13:11 and stuff 03:13:22 and basically Enum works reasonably for everything execpt floats 03:13:23 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:13:29 so they just get a bad instance instead 03:13:39 (well Enum fails for Integer because it gives conversion to Int but those just error out outside the range sooo) 03:13:40 k 03:13:44 and splitting this stuff up is non-obvious 03:13:47 like there are multiple ways you can do it 03:13:51 and also redundancies with the Ix typeclass 03:13:52 @src Ix 03:13:52 class (Ord a) => Ix a where 03:13:52 range :: (a,a) -> [a] 03:13:52 index :: (a,a) -> a -> Int 03:13:52 inRange :: (a,a) -> a -> Bool 03:13:52 rangeSize :: (a,a) -> Int 03:13:56 (used for array indexing) 03:14:20 typeclasses seem like a weird way to organize all around, honestly 03:14:45 typeclasses are a very good point in the design space really 03:14:55 like they are basically generalised OOP interfaces 03:15:07 for something like Functor or Monad or whatever they're perfect 03:15:29 you provide a bunch of definitions the type should support and you're done -- whether they produce values of that type or consume them or whatever 03:15:53 well, ok yeah, functor and monad seem pretty boss. but like the numeric ones? 03:15:59 Type classes aren't used for the same things OO interfaces are typically used for, though. 03:16:03 Gngh. 03:16:11 * shachaf hates having fallen asleep during the day. 03:16:13 lyam? Learn You A MUMPS 03:16:20 well ok i already asked about the numeric ones forget i mentioned that again 03:16:21 whychaf 03:16:29 Bike: you can do some "ok" numeric heirarchies with typeclasses 03:16:34 Num itself is awful but it works 03:16:47 good design criterion 03:16:52 like they're not perfect but typeclasses are novel and a lot better than most of the alternatives 03:16:55 kmc: Now I feel awful and will continue feeling so for a few hours. 03:16:58 Num is an awesome, elegant typeclass that celebrates craftsmanship 03:17:00 kmc: Then I won't be able to fall asleep at night. 03:17:03 shachaf: why awful though? 03:17:08 having never programmed long in like ML I have no idea what the alternatives are 03:17:09 by novel I mean, Haskell is mostly an amalgamation of previously-implemented stuff in the (lazy) functional programming community 03:17:10 I don't know. :-( 03:17:21 but ML or wahtever doesn't have typeclasses 03:17:25 and those languages suffer for the lack 03:17:27 That's what I mean. 03:17:32 i find that even falling asleep at 23:00 instead of 01:00 will make me wake up a few hrs later and not get back to sleep 03:17:34 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:17:37 I don't know in what specific fashion they suffer (though it's easy to believe they do) 03:17:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:18:04 Bike: like for instance, consider Map 03:18:16 2 + 3, 2.0 +. 3.0 03:18:16 you have a type (Map k a) representing an associative mapping of ks to as, yr standard old dictionary type 03:18:32 all the functions Just Work as long as you've defined an Ord instance for k (because it uses a tree based on the order) 03:18:42 you don't have to explicitly pass in your comparison function when creating the Map 03:18:51 unioning two Maps is safe because there can only be one Ord instance for k 03:19:01 so it can use a more efficient union algorithm, because it knows the orderings of two (Map k a)s must coincide 03:19:10 etc. 03:19:25 and yeah what kmc said -- you don't have to have separate arithmetic literals, operators etc. for every single data type 03:19:32 let me find an example of why i'm wondering 03:19:43 basically typeclasses were invented as a way to do 'operator overloading', but have since been used for a lot more 03:19:49 that's the story I know anywya 03:19:53 it might be revisionist history 03:20:23 Available in: dvi, ps, dvi.gz, ps.gz. 03:20:25 thadler 03:20:34 laziness inspires purity, which is otherwise useful. purity inspires monadic IO, which is otherwise useful. monadic IO inspires monads, which are otherwise useful 03:20:39 really quite a chain of luck there 03:20:48 shachaf: what would zzo38 do 03:21:00 like "The nub, delete, union, intersect and group functions all have their more general counterparts called nubBy, deleteBy, unionBy, intersectBy and groupBy." so obviously the type classes are used in the first group, like "defaults", but then you have a second one for when you want to do some non-global thing? 03:21:08 I should get a thing that says that. 03:21:21 dvi.gz, that might be new to me 03:21:23 Bike: yeah but if you did that for Map you would have the problem that elliott mentioned 03:21:23 Bike: well in that case you can think of nub as simply a synonym for nubBy cmpare 03:21:26 *compare 03:21:26 Bike: Well, that is hardly unique to Haskell. 03:21:38 It just has a different mechanism for defining what < means on a type. 03:21:38 they are conveniences for when you want to use the "normal" comparison function 03:21:41 sure 03:21:46 but the operations themselves are much more general 03:21:47 python and perl sorts also let you specify your own comparison optionally 03:21:52 with something like Map, the fact that instances are "global" is an *advantage* 03:21:54 and, oh god, C++ 03:22:10 I thought like everything with a builtin sort let you specify your own comparison. 03:22:11 and good old qsort(3)! but then you aren't really given a sensible default 03:22:24 like it's more, the perspective should be that nub etc. are convenience definitions in terms of nubBy 03:22:27 rather than nubBy being "generalised nub" 03:22:28 and ruby and javascript 03:22:37 elliott: i get that. 03:22:41 there should be a language named rubby 03:22:53 also performing arbitrary computation by means of conditional vacation autoresponders 03:23:03 Well, I guess it could go either way. generalization is hard to do 03:23:14 -!- carado has joined. 03:23:22 i love generaliszation 03:23:36 q what is the obvious generalizsation of (.)? 03:23:38 generaliszation, n. generalization by szilard 03:23:48 Bike: i was thinking of liszt 03:23:55 was he a physicist? imo no 03:24:03 anyway sometimes the 'one implementation per type' property of typeclasses is useful, which is why you can't consider them to be purely sugar for implicit arguments 03:24:12 kmc..... 03:24:12 but that is a way to think of them and also an implementation strategy 03:24:15 implicit arguments aren't fashionable 03:24:18 Bike: imo yes 03:24:25 kmc: example? 03:24:29 elliott: scala and agda have them, checkmate 03:24:36 Bike: the Map thing elliott mentioned above 03:24:53 if you're unioning two Maps, implemented as binary search trees, you want to know that they were constructed with the same comparison function 03:24:56 agda's implicit parameters are nothing like haskell's 03:25:14 elliott: you can't argue with checkmate.............................. 03:25:20 you can't do that if the compr. function is just an arg to the map ctor 03:25:26 I don't think I get that example, you could like, have Maps store their comparison functions (or some more realistic mechanism for the same thing) 03:25:35 Bike: yeah but then you need to check for equality 03:25:35 Bike: But you can't compare comparison functions. 03:25:38 of functns 03:25:45 and if they don't match it's a runtime err 03:25:47 Bike: If you know that the two functions are the same, you can just stick two trees together. 03:25:57 \rainbow{extensional equality} 03:26:21 Is that a problem? You can just use pointer comparison, the programmer can't reasonably expect extensional equivalence towork 03:26:24 oh no i'm a meme pollinator 03:26:29 /bin/map-union one.btr two.btr 03:27:18 /bin/bike 03:27:45 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 03:27:59 I mean with the global you're just making "there is one global [overloaded] comparison function" part of the system to solve that problem. 03:28:30 Right, which is enforced by the language. 03:28:42 mmhm. 03:29:34 But then what happens when you want a map on something that already has an Ord instance you don't want for that specificity? 03:29:44 You can make a new type. 03:29:46 I guess you could like, make a type alias or whatever 03:30:08 It's not that great. 03:30:22 'now you have two problems' 03:30:37 But I don't know how else to get the desired properties, really. 03:30:49 Pointer equality is not a good answer. 03:31:40 Why not? Well, I guess Haskell doesn't have Eq for functions so you can't do it. 03:31:57 Well, you don't really want to have Eq for functions. 03:31:58 Is that a problem? You can just use pointer comparison, the programmer can't reasonably expect extensional equivalence towork 03:32:01 elliott would like to explain why. 03:32:23 Bike: so now the asymptotic performance of your map union algorithm depends on whether you use myComparisonFunction or (\x -> myComparisonFunction x) 03:32:30 ando ther such operational details that the language guarantees nothing about 03:32:46 not only that but you need an unsafe (impure) pointer comparison operation implement Map 03:32:49 *to implement 03:32:54 I just don't understand when the lambda would come up, reasonably speaking? 03:33:23 that was just an example. it could also be myComparisonFunction and myComparisonFunction 03:33:34 maybe the implementation copied it underneath. you don't know. Haskell doesn't speak about operational semantics at all 03:33:54 and generally I think it's nice to be able to state union's big-O without saying "but if the pointer comparison fails..." :P 03:34:00 Bike: dude Bike what is the meaning of function pointer equality 03:34:16 denotational semantics plz 03:34:20 the global instances property also gives us nice things like the open world assumption 03:34:25 but it gives me hives :( 03:34:31 which basically means your program can't break by adding instances 03:34:34 it's a bit more subtle than that though 03:34:41 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 03:35:06 i do like open world assumptions. 03:35:43 > [1.5..10] 03:35:45 [1.5,2.5,3.5,4.5,5.5,6.5,7.5,8.5,9.5,10.5] 03:35:48 did someone mention that one to Bike............ 03:36:01 It's actually what started this? 03:36:16 oh i missed that 03:36:20 Assuming you mean Enum for floats being weirdass and not that specific enumeration. 03:36:28 i just saw a discussion of instance Num blah 03:36:30 I meant that one. 03:36:41 Oh. Um what do you mean? 03:36:51 10.5>10 03:37:10 oh that. 03:37:41 I think I mostly latched onto that 'cos i just read a thing that used the actual nextfloat function. 03:38:24 imo unsafeCoerce ((unsafeCoerce (10.5::Double)::Integer)+1)::Double 03:38:45 I think I'm with monqy on unsafeCoerce. 03:38:48 Oops, did I say Integer? 03:38:50 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:38:52 I meant Int. Whatever. 03:39:07 The great thing about unsafeCoerce is that it does what you mean. 03:39:07 cast to bigint, watch the system go down in flames 03:39:17 Bike: No, it works. 03:39:23 That's the great part!! 03:39:38 Integer is implemented with Int# for small values. 03:39:47 If you overflow it'll crash, though. 03:39:48 psh nonstandard 03:40:01 I just made a norn that should be practically braindead. It's fully capable of eating and playing with toys 03:41:53 shachaf: have u ever, like, really compared two pointers 03:42:16 imo (==) :: Ptr Apple -> Ptr Orange -> Bool 03:42:21 have you ever looked at your page table? like, really looked at your page table 03:42:47 Bike: yeah Linux has /proc/$pid/pagemap 03:43:00 which tells you inter alia the physical page frame number for every page in your address space 03:43:27 someday i'll stop overusing stoner jokes. or at least actually get stoned and then continue using them 03:43:45 Bike: imo learn category theory then make more stoner jokes 03:43:52 bonus points if its higher category theory?? 03:43:57 i admit i really liked the left adjoint one 03:44:00 what was that one 03:44:07 god why do you have to be talking about real things 03:44:08 let me find it 03:44:19 you fuckers 03:44:51 I'm the Vice President of the United States, you stupid little fuckers! 03:45:16 18:50:27 I have friends in high places 03:45:17 [...] 03:45:19 is that from that mech game or is it something cheney actually said at some point 03:45:24 Maybe they're in high places because elliott left adjoint somewhere. 03:45:32 OK, that's pretty good. 03:45:39 oh it's from TV ok 03:46:05 it sounds like something Nixon would say except s/Vice // 03:46:08 that was before shachaf learned about the three ways functors could be related 03:46:27 elliott: what are the ways again 03:47:33 `quote banach 03:47:35 957) sometimes i am confronted with a problem and i think "I know, I'll use Banach-Tarski" 03:48:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:48:19 less good. 03:48:58 What's from TV? 03:49:08 kmc's quote 03:49:14 ok i love 957 03:49:14 oops i said "TV" capitaliszed....... 03:49:31 I thought it was from that one video game where you fight the vice president in a giant robot. 03:49:48 wasn't that the president 03:49:54 or the "ex president" 03:49:56 No, you play as the president. 03:50:10 yes 03:50:16 and you defeat the other president 03:50:24 The vice president. 03:51:09 imo you're not talking about Sam & Max Episode 104: Abe Lincoln Must Die 03:51:39 Indeed I'm not. Does that actually involve robots? I thought Sam & Max usually just beat people up. 03:51:49 It was sort of a robot, wasn't it? 03:51:58 Maybe the president you fight is also the robot. 03:52:01 I can't remember. 03:52:11 I was thinking of http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Metalwolfcover.jpg 03:53:34 http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq255/Sandwich35/wootstrike-21f-fa.gif?t=1296026584 03:54:03 wow, the prelude in the standard has a whole lexer in it for some reason 03:54:14 for use by derived Read instances I think 03:54:31 i mean, in the example prelude 03:54:33 it's like a shitty parser combinator library 03:55:16 why is this gif about nuking israel 03:55:46 The norn I created basically does not have wires leading from "I'm hungry" to "eat food" 03:55:50 Or any similar connections 03:56:03 It has wires from seeing and hearing to wanting to do things with what it sees and hears 03:56:13 But it doesn't make decisions based on its drives 03:56:21 norn? 03:56:29 creatureswiki.net 03:56:30 it's about being the Shadow President 03:56:37 awesome. 03:56:48 and the bad decisions you can make as Shadow President 04:00:16 -!- jconn has joined. 04:06:38 Now I want to implement the polls in Internet Quiz Engine. However, to do that, it should write the data to another file, and then use another program to make it into a SQL code, and then use SQL to make the statistics of the result. 04:06:47 Is that correct? 04:06:48 thank god. jconn is back. 04:06:51 our life is saved. 04:07:56 we only have one? 04:08:03 Saved from what? The power lines? Humanity? The sun? Or, perhaps, from the keys on your computer that the letters have been rubbed off? 04:08:43 Do any of us hunt and peck 04:09:15 O, I forgot, maybe is save from the giant robot. 04:09:38 Bike, I've hunted and pecked for so long that it's become know and peck 04:09:46 It's been know and peck for a while 04:10:00 You actually don't know how to touch type. is that what you're telling me. 04:10:19 Touch typing is where you keep your hands in the same place and just move fingers? 04:10:23 Yes, I don't know how to do that. 04:10:26 If you cannot type, then you should learn to type if you want to operate your computer 04:10:31 Although all my fingers get used when I type 04:10:43 I need like video of this or something. 04:10:50 `addquote If you cannot type, then you should learn to type if you want to operate your computer 04:10:54 992) If you cannot type, then you should learn to type if you want to operate your computer 04:10:57 i touch-type except i don't keep my fingers on the home row 04:10:59 they just hover 04:11:04 Are they going to get to one thousand? 04:11:14 does anyone like actually keep their fingers on the board 04:11:25 i use the kinesis contoured keyboard which means keeping your fingers on the home row feels incredibly good 04:11:32 almost as good as sex to be quite honest 04:11:38 Bike: I do (except when I am not typing) 04:11:48 combined keyboard/teledildonic that rewards keeping your fingers on the home ro 04:11:51 w 04:11:56 i guess you don't really need the nic there 04:11:57 anyway what paper should i read: lockery, buhrmann, fernando, harvey, di paolo, or some other one 04:12:04 or the tele 04:12:12 Bike: What other one is it? 04:12:19 do i have to pick just from the names 04:12:21 Virgo 04:12:21 Yes 04:12:40 i don't want to paste the paper titles they're long and as previously established my hands don't stay on the board long enough 04:12:41 maybe lockery 04:12:44 that's a weird name 04:12:52 what are these papers about B. T. W. 04:12:54 `pastequotes zzo38 04:12:58 i need a bigger dot i think 04:12:59 roundworms 04:13:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24070 04:13:04 ok well. 04:13:06 in that case none of them 04:13:18 as previously established,[1] worms[2] are gross.[3] 04:13:18 hey fuck you roundworms are my totem :( :( 04:13:37 what are you again 04:13:39 are you like a biologist or something 04:13:41 Bike, you should play worms 04:13:47 Worms is fun 04:13:58 also roundworms aren't actually annelids 04:14:05 because names of animals are really dumb? 04:14:08 `quote 246 04:14:10 246) Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want. 04:14:14 I don't mind if roundworms are your totem, but it doesn't help if the [1][2][3] you don't know the notes. 04:14:23 Hey that was elliott. Blame him. 04:14:26 `quote 2 04:14:28 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" 04:14:35 This doesn't say anything about any worms. 04:14:39 Therefore you should fill it in if you want to know the answer of it. 04:15:04 oh i forgot worms aren't actually a phylum anyway 04:15:13 why the paraphyly elliott? something to hide?? 04:15:39 meanwhile my pertinent question has not been answered 04:15:58 oh i'm too young to be an anything 04:16:02 right but i mean 04:16:06 what are you a pretend thing of again 04:16:28 computational neuroethology! it's totes a real field i didn't just make up to make you stop asking 04:16:47 more importantly i think gross things are cute. 04:17:08 Once someone asked me to make a computer program to figure out the distance from here to the moon. This was many years ago. Now I have a program to calculate the distance from here to the moon. 04:17:19 `quote 865 04:17:21 865) If you write in the text using Unicode then how are you supposed to know if you mean seraphim have seven eyes or do they have ten? 04:17:40 Bike: oh are you one of those secretive people 04:17:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anguis this is dumb. this is so dumb. animals are dumb 04:17:45 i assumed you'd already said 04:17:48 ^----- you use SERAPHIM EYE COUNT SEQUENCE INITIATOR followed by any number of SERAPHIM EYE COUNT SEQUENCE DIGIT 0 through SERAPHIM EYE COUNT SEQUENCE DIGIT 9 04:18:04 elliott: i hadn't already said because it's not much to do with this channel. that is actually my "dream field" though. 04:18:10 Bike: is it philosophy. it's ok i know a guy studying philosophy. i only hate his guts 100% 04:18:18 it would be 200% but he's also doing mathematics 04:18:31 also 04:18:41 since when does anything have anything to do with this cahnenl 04:18:45 kmc: And then does the multiocular O code terminate it? 04:18:54 i don't know 04:18:59 http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Computational_neuroethology 04:19:03 like you liking common lisp has nothing to do with this channel... but it's still the reason you're terrible 04:19:07 perhaps they are combining chars on the multiocular O directly 04:19:23 the above is how the (deprecated) language code indicators work 04:19:29 Bike: i like how you can just stick "computational" onto the start of any field. 04:19:32 with an entire copy of the latin alphabet as invisible combining chars 04:19:32 and get a new field 04:19:34 i know, it's great 04:19:38 but that's not modifying a specific character 04:19:48 computational history 04:19:51 computational neuroethology leads to building machines with no other use but irritating small animals though 04:19:52 computational english 04:19:54 so it's cool in my gook 04:20:00 book 04:20:02 computational sociology 04:20:04 isn't computational english stylometry 04:20:14 computational neurotheology 04:20:35 neuro- is similar to computational in this respect, in that "neurotheology" is something that people actually say they do. 04:20:48 yeah 04:20:53 I guess for making it computational you get Francis Dec to help out or something. 04:20:58 i would definitely read about computational neurotheology 04:21:01 that guy 04:21:03 computer gangster theology 04:21:09 http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=oOYrCHi7yjM&start1=0&video2=FB18DV1SQmI&start2=0&authorName=crunkbourgeois&h=1 04:21:18 crunkbourgeois eh 04:21:56 okay this is great. 04:23:13 what the hell is he even saying 04:23:26 "maximum security insanity prison" 04:23:43 haha this is hilarious 04:24:06 i admire whoever read this. i could not keep this up 04:25:14 he just said the sky isn't real 04:25:42 i don't even hear the words. it's all one big thing 04:26:30 deadly frankenstein communist gangster conspiracy worldwide systematic plastic surgery instantaneously 04:27:00 http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=q2I5NvjhqwI&start1=219&video2=hKLpJtvzlEI&start2=240&authorName=Real 04:27:17 oh is he saying the n word. 04:27:24 i can't even tell what's going on. 04:27:57 yeah he is 04:28:16 i guess crazy people are racist sometime? 04:28:27 donate money, or even a manual typewriter, to me! 04:28:51 Which model of typewriters would be best for that purpose? 04:28:59 hm i've never actually heard or read anything by alex jones before. 04:29:04 thanks kmc 04:29:23 the term is thmc 04:29:28 http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=VgAXZHMi_ws&start1=0&video2=TMQLLqiKaas&start2=0&authorName=Ann+O%27Nymous 04:29:34 holy shit jones. 04:29:42 is he going to destroy the camera 04:29:59 Is xkcd trying to make a fool of me or is there actually something 04:30:05 can't it be both 04:30:19 "i'm pissed off now" no really 04:30:19 According to my computer the distance from here to the moon is 0.0025718 AU 04:30:39 thelliott for the "thmc" tidbit 04:30:46 (Just in case you need to know those distance) 04:32:40 oh the rant thing kmc linked originally 04:32:44 is something Bike already linked here?? 04:32:47 http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/containmentpolicy.htm 04:32:53 it was bike right 04:33:09 iunno probably 04:34:38 "iunno probably" -- Bike, Bike's tombstone 04:35:32 what are you implying 04:36:02 i'm implying you're going to die rip 04:36:10 :< 04:36:51 Your heart will explode. 04:37:18 ok 04:37:48 I should stop making what I think are BGO references because BGO is literally just references to other things 04:37:55 I think Your heart will explode comes from WoW 04:38:37 i remember it from kill bill so that means the original is some 1960s action film nobody's ever seen 04:40:03 that reminds me of that one time i thought a princess bride reference was a kill bill reference (i haven't seen either) and everyone gave me shit about not having seen the princess bride for days :'| 04:41:04 tch i'll bet you haven't seen The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies either you shrub 04:41:41 thats so true Bike 04:41:43 im a failure 04:42:11 In some screenings, employees in monster masks, sometimes including Steckler himself, would run into the theater to scare the audience (The gimmick was billed as "Hallucinogenic Hypnovision" on the film's posters). 04:42:33 (sometimes "!!?" is appended to the title) --Wikipedia 04:42:41 2/10 on imdb, that's how you know it's good 04:43:05 At the time of release, The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies was the second longest titled film in the horror genre (Roger Corman's The Saga of the Viking Women and Their Voyage to the Waters of the Great Sea Serpent being the first).[1] 04:43:20 This was not, however, the originally intended title of the film. As Steckler relates, the film was supposed to be titled The Incredibly Strange Creatures, or Why I Stopped Living and Became a Mixed-up Zombie, but was changed in response to Columbia Pictures' threat of a lawsuit over the name's similarity to Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb, which was under production at the time.[2] 04:43:22 goddamn i haven't seen that one 04:43:26 fucking fantastic 04:43:31 i bet they were totally serious 04:44:11 on that sea serpent one 04:44:12 Criticism 04:44:12 The film currently holds a 2.5/10 user rating on IMDb. 04:44:18 I still need to see Dr. Strangelove 04:44:18 thats literally the entire criticism section of the wp article 04:44:28 it doesn't even have a plot summary 04:47:00 does it need one? 04:47:25 Sgeo: yes you do 04:47:39 At least I've seen The Princess Bride 04:48:03 sgeo is clearly the superior elliott 04:48:25 i think you'll find i am the optimal elliott 04:48:29 elliott: you should add the metascore 04:48:34 and the rotten tomatoes 04:49:10 Add, not average, and don't put context of out of how many 04:49:14 >.. 04:49:15 >.> 04:49:59 i give this film a 2+i 04:52:20 hey Bike i'm bored. tell me to do something. 04:53:15 elliott: go ride a bike 04:53:19 (see what i did there) 04:54:08 hm. what is a thing to do. an action one can take to be in the state of performing an action. 04:54:16 Mario Kart. 04:55:37 You can breathe. 04:55:40 I hope. 04:55:42 +1 05:02:43 it has to be something not boring. breathing sucks 05:08:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:09:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:10:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:10:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:12:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:13:52 http://totl.net/HonourSystem/ is broken :( 05:14:58 -!- carado has joined. 05:19:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:20:25 I think zzo38 might be interested in this http://data.totl.net/ 05:20:57 wat 05:20:57 -!- augur has joined. 05:20:57 Play Tic Tac Toe in RDF. 05:21:27 hi Bike 05:21:55 hi 05:22:34 oh good they have the Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge 05:23:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_tax 05:23:33 those that are included in this classification 05:25:20 http://graphite.ecs.soton.ac.uk/browser/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2F01%2Frdf-schema%23Class#http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#Class 05:27:20 nice 05:28:12 shachaf: why 05:28:20 so why did they - yes 05:29:03 why what 05:33:23 They have a list of things that cause and prevent cancer; some things are specified as both 05:37:58 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:38:35 -!- augur has joined. 05:39:34 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:41:36 -!- Bike_ has joined. 05:42:32 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 05:42:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:43:20 But these various datasets do show some examples of how these things works. 05:44:02 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 05:44:33 -!- heroux has joined. 05:45:01 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 05:45:38 -!- lahwran- has joined. 05:46:20 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- lahwran has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:54 -!- EgoBot has joined. 05:47:17 Their tarot deck is not really a standard/generic deck. The standard Latin suits are swords, rods, money, and cups. Furthermore, the trumps do not have consistent names in different decks, but they are always numbered I to XXI (and sometimes the Fool (also called Excuse) is a trump, too). 05:47:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:48:19 The different decks have suits based on the Latin suits; commoly seen is that the rods are wands and the coins have pentagrams on them. 05:49:08 There are other variants, too. 05:51:16 I,I Three undertrumps after an opponent's discard of a Trebled Fromp 05:52:11 `welcome FireFly 05:52:13 FireFly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:52:33 shachaf: But that is in Double Fanucci, not in tarot. 05:52:49 zzo38: Have you ever played Double Fanucci? 05:52:57 No. 05:57:30 In some tarot decks the cups are called chalices. It doesn't matter what they are called; if something says the suit of "money" or of "pentacles" or "disks" then they mean the same suit; whatever suit happens to correspond to "money" in the deck you are using. Sometimes the Excuse card is simply called "the highest trump" (in PySol, for example); when it is a trump, it usually is the highest one, but it is not always a trump. 05:57:58 which ones are the fromps 05:58:30 shachaf: It is easier to explain if you find the picture 06:01:01 You can call the trumps and Excuse card together "majors" (or "Major Arcana", but "majors" is shorter), and the other cards "minors" (or "Minor Arcana"). This is useful when those cards are not being used as trumps, to avoid confusion. (The game Chicks Rule calls them "bettys" since any suit (including the majors) can be trumps; I don't quite know why they didn't choose "majors") 06:04:33 They have an entire chess game in RDF? Actually they have only one state at a time, so it is not the complete game 06:05:10 do your chess games usually have multiple states at once 06:05:45 No. 06:05:58 Some variants may have, though. 06:06:33 But I don't see anything like a XSLT file which will generate the RDF for the current state, or anything else like that. 06:10:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:18:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:19:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:19:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:27:19 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 06:33:52 -!- sp0oky has joined. 06:34:09 -!- sp0oky has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:35:13 -!- sp0oky has joined. 06:35:28 Hello 06:35:49 `welcome sp0oky 06:35:52 sp0oky: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:36:00 2spooky 06:38:12 Just playing with my phone to see how well IRC works. 06:38:38 Better than it was a little while ago 06:39:39 I'm bored 06:39:59 I'm supposed to be asleep 06:40:04 I have work tomorrow. 06:40:06 Mario Kart. 06:40:09 What a weird sentence. 06:41:00 i ignored Bike's suggestion because i have no way of playing mario kart right now 06:41:04 I have no job 06:41:37 I could on my snes emulator 06:42:33 http://meatfighter.com/java4k2013/rainbowroad/ 06:42:42 Sgeo: is it your first day? 06:43:43 Yes 06:44:04 congrats and good luck :) 06:44:41 Thanks 06:44:48 what he said 06:44:55 You would need the game too, not only the emulator (or hardware). Have you written any game on SNES? 06:45:22 No but u can download Roma 06:45:33 ROMS 06:45:49 Well, yes, you need the ROM image of the game 06:46:24 I have final fantasy maybe I'll play that 06:47:21 Play whatever you have; I made many computer games too, but there are others, too. 06:47:50 I thought there is many of Final Fantasy game? 06:48:29 Choices are limited. All I have is my LG smartphone. 06:48:57 You don't have another computer or game console system or whatever? 06:49:52 There are games specifically for the smartphone, although there may also be emulators for other systems, allowing the same games to be played on a different systems. 06:49:53 zzo38, nope. I live on the streets of la 06:51:17 I need to go to an internet cafe so I can root this thing 06:52:48 -!- sp0oky has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:53:04 If you have Android, you can find several games, emulators, and others from http://pdroms.de/files/android/ and if you have an emulator you can download files for those other systems too. 07:01:13 -!- monqy has joined. 07:04:23 <[mbm]> square actually sells a final fantasy game for both iphone and android .. no need to run an emulator 07:12:16 http://www.pnas.org/content/110/7/2641.abstract.html "neurocomputation". the prophecy of elliott has come to pass 07:13:03 computational neurocomputation 07:13:49 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 07:19:44 [mbm]: I didn't know that. But I think there are many Final Fantasy games, isn't it? 07:20:05 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: noon). 07:24:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:26:57 They sell Android ports of 1, 2 and 3 (according to the proper numbering); and the 3 is the "3D" remake, the one that was made for the DS. 07:29:02 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:29:19 And a mobile-exclusive thing called Final Fantasy Dimensions, AIUI. 07:30:43 // WARNING: Enabling sounds may compromise security if Crawl is installed setuid or setgid. 07:30:43 // #define SOUND_PLAY_COMMAND "/usr/bin/play -v .5 %s 2>/dev/null &" 07:30:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:31:02 Best thing. 07:31:08 (I can't think of any system where crawl isn't setgid) 07:31:30 Jafet: looks secure to me 07:31:47 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 7965160 Nov 15 07:50 /usr/games/crawl 07:33:09 sound in crawl. cute. 07:33:31 -rwxr-sr-x 1 root games 6824968 2010-10-16 14:35 crawl 07:33:33 hi monqy 07:33:39 hi shachaf 07:33:44 glad to see you back in here 07:34:01 ??? 07:34:11 you were "gone awhile" 07:34:30 il be gone another awhile "fair warning" 07:34:40 oh no 07:34:43 how long anwhile 07:35:06 Is the sound in Crawl just plain growling? 07:35:08 um idk maybe thursdayish 07:35:16 wow 07:35:37 fizzie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jkorg2xnYI 07:36:09 um is that crawl with tiles..................... 07:37:07 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 07:37:34 lots of people play crawl with tiles. i don't. i don't play crawl. 07:37:58 That is indeed very cute and not annoying at all. 07:40:29 wow these are some "hi quality sound fx" 07:40:44 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 7.7M 2013-02-06 17:34 /usr/bin/crawl 07:41:05 i can't think of any reason you'd run crawl as setgid 07:41:15 certainly not if you're compiling it manually as you have to to get sound support 07:41:15 wh ywould you install crawl locally 07:41:32 because "not everyoen has an interner contnectoin" 07:42:29 but then you compile the 'git master' 07:43:13 "'Pow!' said Zaphod. 'Freeeoooo! Pop pop pop!'", to quote a book, in re the sound effects. 07:44:13 http://sprunge.us/OWDM it's about Crawl (with tiles)? 07:55:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:19 -!- heroux has joined. 08:04:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:09:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:11:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:12:50 -!- heroux has joined. 08:17:16 * Lymia weeps 08:17:22 Stupid evolver, I don't want 100 vibrators D: 08:17:33 At least attempt to rush! 08:18:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:19:58 -!- heroux has joined. 08:20:01 .<(.<(.<(.<)*-1)*-1(.<)*-1)*-1(.<(.<)*-1)*-1 08:20:04 nice individual you have there 08:20:23 would be a shame if anything were to.... happen to it 08:20:24 You can open an adult store to get rid of them. 08:21:31 Bike, I would prefer that something happen to it 08:21:35 Lymia: I put in that thing I was talking about, the thing which takes a set of programs A, and then talks to the outside world over stdin/stdout, by accepting a program and outputting its scores against set A. 08:22:24 I haven't benchmarked at all how much that saves time w.r.t. just individual executions. 08:22:27 ^^ 08:22:57 Vibrator jousting 08:23:39 Perhaps I should run a quick test on the thing. 08:24:49 fizzie, in case you have a use for it 08:25:17 http://files.lymiahugs.com/download/esolang/bfjoust-collection.tar.xz https://files.lymiahugs.com/egojoust-stats 08:25:48 Erm 08:25:48 http://files.lymiahugs.com/downloads/esolang/bfjoust-collection.tar.xz 08:26:09 The .tar.xz is Windows in compatible due to file names. Don't try that :p 08:27:40 Lymia: http://sprunge.us/fZLC those should be vaguely comparable benchmarks. 08:27:42 1036:ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid 08:28:24 (hill_nonl is hill with all newline characters stripped, because genelance interprets a newline as end of program.) 08:29:12 (I think I'll a lunch.) 08:29:26 fizzie, seems nice. 08:30:03 !bfjoust screwyouevolver (-)*-1 08:30:18 It seems that it never figures out how to rush 08:30:28 Unless you run it against the hill itself only for a few hundred generations 08:30:31 With ties counted as losses 08:31:02 !bfjoust i-appreciate-the-effort (-++)*-1 08:31:13 Deewiant: i think that was one of my tweaking a random programs thing 08:31:28 presumably whoeveritwas_shade (I think that was #1 at one point????) 08:31:44 nescience 08:31:54 Or something like that, whatever his nick was 08:32:18 Anyway, just an aside on all the sex-related stuff lately 08:32:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:34:06 fizzie, can you add an optimization, like. 08:34:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 08:34:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:34:08 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:34:13 If both programs end the reach of their code, call it a tie 08:34:23 And other similar things for programs that don't really do much 08:35:33 * Lymia pokes EgoBot 08:35:35 Hellloooo 08:35:37 -!- Sanky_ has joined. 08:38:31 !bfjoust 08:38:32 !help 08:38:39 Is EgoBot dead? 08:39:08 apparently 08:39:24 It quit and came back three hours ago and hasn't said anything since 08:39:52 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 08:40:17 -!- Effilry has joined. 08:40:25 -!- Sanky has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:40:26 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:40:26 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 08:40:26 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (*.net *.split). 08:40:26 -!- yiyus_ has quit (*.net *.split). 08:40:26 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 08:41:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:41:42 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:42:25 Current best individual: -[--><])*-1 08:42:29 Erm 08:42:34 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:42:38 Current best individual: -([--><])*-1 08:42:43 -!- heroux has joined. 08:42:51 I'm at a loss for words 08:42:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:43:17 -!- yiyus has joined. 08:44:14 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 08:44:25 -!- EgoBot has joined. 08:44:25 -!- myndzi has joined. 08:44:43 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds). 08:45:02 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -([--><])*-1 08:45:07 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 13.2 08:45:40 netsplit sorted it out 08:45:45 Isn't that equivalent to not having the *-1? 08:46:02 Or how long does ][ take 08:46:28 It's going to have a slight effect. 08:46:33 I'm pretty sure 08:46:37 It'll take two ticks when it's zero. 08:46:42 .. which is very counterproductive 08:46:48 At which point the game ends 08:46:53 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -([--><]+)*-1 08:46:58 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 13.2 08:47:03 -!- Bike_ has joined. 08:47:04 heh 08:47:17 Well, it got slightly more points 08:47:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:48:01 Is there a difference between >< and .. ? 08:48:07 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 08:48:16 FireFly: yes, the latter kills you if you are at the edge of the tape 08:48:16 Nope 08:48:16 .. doesn't lose. 08:48:24 Oh, right 08:48:25 the right edge, that is 08:48:32 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -([--..]+)*-1 08:48:36 The wrong edge 08:48:37 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 13.2 08:48:46 -!- heroux has joined. 08:48:51 -!- ogrom has joined. 08:49:50 Now, what's *-1 ? I know that *n for positive n is for abbreviating repetition 08:49:57 *-1 is infinite repeat 08:50:02 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -[--..] 08:50:06 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 12.9 08:50:11 NOT identical? 08:50:13 Ah 08:50:15 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -[[--..]] 08:50:20 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 12.2 08:50:24 * Lymia boggles 08:50:24 -!- ogrom has left. 08:52:24 !bfjoust ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense -([->-<]+)*-1 08:52:27 ​Score for Lymia_ihopethisturnsintosomethingthatsnotdefense: 5.1 08:53:03 Lymia: The extra [] adds a timing difference, even though it's essentially the same 08:54:12 not quite the same 08:54:17 since the timing means it can change between ] and ] 08:55:03 Right, that too 08:57:25 or [ and [ even 08:59:22 *-1 is technically *100000 there. 08:59:22 !bfjoust bluh (-)*-1 08:59:27 ​Score for FireFly_bluh: 7.5 09:01:47 Evolver! You're supposed to be local minima-proof >_<; 09:02:09 -!- itsy has joined. 09:02:13 !bfjoust fibo (+-++---(+)*5(-)*8(+)*13(-)*21)*-1 09:02:17 ​Score for fizzie_fibo: 9.1 09:02:53 what is fibo 09:03:02 Fibonacci numbers? 09:03:13 @oeis 5 8 13 21 09:03:16 Fibonacci numbers: F(n) = F(n-1) + F(n-2) with F(0) = 0 and F(1) = 1. 09:03:16 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... 09:03:37 !bfjoust batteries_not_included (+-)*-1 09:03:41 ​Score for Jafet_batteries_not_included: 6.2 09:03:46 ah 09:04:42 !bfjoust primary ((+)*2(-)*3(+)*5(-)*7(+)*11(-)*13(+)*17(-)*19(+)*23(-)*29(+)*31(-)*37(+)*41(-)*43(+)*47(-)*51)*-1 09:04:47 ​Score for Deewiant_primary: 10.5 09:04:54 @oeis 49 283 5 09:05:05 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 09:05:06 Sequence not found. 09:05:14 @oeis 0 1 2 3 09:05:29 Plugin `oeis' failed with: thread killed 09:05:36 @oeis 0 0 0 0 0 0 09:05:49 the best sequence. 09:05:51 Plugin `oeis' failed with: thread killed 09:05:53 oeis.org, no need to kill lambdabot 09:06:18 @oeis 0 1 2 3 5 8 13 09:06:22 Number of binary Lyndon words of length n with trace 1 and subtrace 1 over Z... 09:06:22 [0,0,0,1,2,3,5,8,13,24,45,85,160,297,550,1024,1920,3626,6885,13107,24989,477... 09:06:35 @oeis 0 1 3 4 6 6 09:06:47 Minimum number of steps to reach n! starting from 1 and using the operations... 09:06:47 [0,1,3,4,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,10] 09:07:12 I like how only 12 of those are known 09:07:17 http://oeis.org/A217032 :-) 09:07:39 Well, I know a few more :-) 09:08:06 known to be known 09:08:23 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:09:15 @oeis 0 1 3 4 6 6 7 8 8 9 9 10 11 11 12 12 12 09:09:30 Plugin `oeis' failed with: thread killed 09:09:56 * itsy wins :-D 09:11:31 @oies 13371337 09:11:33 Sequence not found. 09:11:38 @oies 999999 09:11:39 10^n - 1. 09:11:39 [0,9,99,999,9999,99999,999999,9999999,99999999,999999999,9999999999,99999999... 09:11:44 cheater 09:12:30 !bfjoust you-can-rush-now (->->[-])*-1>[--[-]] 09:12:33 ​Score for Lymia_you-can-rush-now: 0.0 09:12:41 ..!? 09:13:04 !bfjoust you-can-rush-now (->->[-])*-1 09:13:07 ​Score for Lymia_you-can-rush-now: 0.0 09:13:10 What is this black magic 09:13:34 * Lymia sighs 09:13:35 Right 09:13:39 !bfjoust test (->->[-].)*-1 09:13:40 Fatally incompatible fitness functions 09:13:41 ​Score for Fiora_test: 0.0 09:13:50 !bfjoust test (->[-])*-1 09:13:52 ​Score for Fiora_test: 14.0 09:14:02 !bfjoust :-) 09:14:03 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 09:14:05 !bfjoust hi :-) 09:14:08 ​Score for shachaf_hi: 0.0 09:14:10 not you too 09:18:04 !bfjoust makeupyourmind! --(--(--(---+)*-1-+)*-1-+)*-1-+ 09:18:10 ​Score for Lymia_makeupyourmind_: 12.1 09:24:06 Bike: i just realised i subconsciously associate you with the pink floyd song of the same name and keep hearing it when you say things. thought you should know 09:24:40 good song 09:25:58 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:26:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:27:07 there's a pink floyd song called bike? 09:27:16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmW17QvUhRM 09:27:29 huh 09:27:42 i should make a table of every song called "Bike", so far I know two 09:28:04 this is on pink floyd's first album. how the fuck did they ever get popular 09:28:54 Bike: are you named after a song.......................................... 09:29:08 imo the song is named after you 09:29:40 i'm named after a stuffed animal but i don't know what the stuffed animal is named after? probably me 09:32:52 -!- experience has joined. 09:33:36 Hello everyone 09:33:40 I am here to serve a purpose. 09:33:56 The purpose pertains to all who are present within this room. 09:34:10 Ask and thou shallt receiveth. 09:34:18 gimme porn 09:34:36 You shall be rewarded with esoteric porn. 09:34:43 Do you see it? No? Open your minds eye. 09:34:52 `welcome experience 09:34:57 experience: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:35:07 experience: i like you 09:35:09 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 09:36:21 Oh, this is a programming oriented channel. 09:36:40 Esoteric programming? Like the code that makes up the Matrix? 09:36:55 consult your pineal gland and learn the answer 09:37:32 Bike, I see you speak in proverbs. 09:38:12 You must be the chosen one. 09:38:30 -!- experience has quit (Quit: irc2go). 09:38:39 glad we got that cleared up. night 09:38:47 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sophisticated decay). 09:39:13 i miss experience already 09:40:41 -!- itsy has joined. 09:41:44 Oh, has experience gone :-( I didn't get chance to ask... 09:43:07 alas. 09:53:00 I think I'm going to open-source Antiposeball 5 09:54:23 I don't think I'm making much money off it, and if I am, I shouldn't be 09:54:27 The code is old and buggy 09:54:45 how do you not know whether you are making money off it or not 09:55:09 !bfjoust generation-200 (->->[-])*-1>[--[-]] 09:55:12 ​Score for Lymia_generation-200: 0.0 09:55:13 The question is the meaning of 'much' 09:55:16 !bfjoust generation-200 (->[-])*-1>[--[-]] 09:55:19 ​Score for Lymia_generation-200: 14.0 09:55:21 WTF 09:55:23 $300 or so over 6 years does not really seem like much 09:55:23 Seriously 09:55:24 I need some kind of printer server. 09:55:30 Why can't my evolver achieve a 2 opcode deletion 09:56:01 Urgh 09:56:04 It's probs encoded weirdly 09:56:17 I'm currently getting maybe a few cents a month 09:56:38 Also, if I never sold it in the first place, if I just gave it away, Second Life might be a happier place 09:56:44 So I kind of feel guilty about that 09:58:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti 10:00:11 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Page closed). 10:04:27 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 10:04:49 moin 10:04:56 -!- mroman_ has changed nick to mroman. 10:05:15 freenode is weird. 10:06:15 .... 10:06:16 * Lymia weeps 10:06:33 The disabling of the gene function seems to improve the evolver slightly. 10:06:37 * Lymia is going to have to run a full experiment... 10:11:39 `slist 10:11:41 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 10:12:20 where's my olist 10:13:14 I was going to say I was unaware it was updated, but it wasn't actually updated 10:13:43 where's my update 10:16:56 !bfjoust the-evolver-likes-this (+++--)*-1 10:17:00 ​Score for Lymia_the-evolver-likes-this: 7.0 10:18:33 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to NotRichBurlew. 10:19:27 PoorBurlew? 10:19:45 +1 10:19:52 Poorlew 10:24:59 Lymia: hmm. maybe it would be useful to write a test for the evolver's code to make sure it "agrees" with what the hill thinks? 10:25:20 e.g. give the scorer various known-okay programs and see if it agrees with the hill on how good they are relative to each other 10:25:25 I guess sort of a sanity test 10:25:40 !bfjoust nyannyan (++-.+)*-1 10:25:43 ... I wonder if genetically evolving based on lots of existing hill programs as seeds would work 10:25:45 ​Score for Lymia_nyannyan: 16.1 10:25:57 Fiora, I know the algorithm is different 10:26:05 The differences are small enough that I don't /expect/ a huge problem. 10:26:13 ah 10:27:15 -!- NotRichBurlew has changed nick to Sgeo. 10:28:28 I dunno 10:28:32 With the scaling based on 'value' 10:28:32 if you have a hill with 40 crappy evolved programs that are vulnerable to the same strategy, that'll favor specific programs from the existing hill 10:28:35 I might have problems here 10:29:00 olsner, I'm comparing using the best 100 programs from egobot. 10:29:06 With no inner-hill evaluations. 10:29:13 I set too high a population size for that to be practical. 10:29:19 (best 100 programs, historically) 10:30:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:31:37 olsner, I have a speciation algorithm that should prevent fluctuations in a self-against-self hill too. 10:32:18 I was thinking maybe separate evolution groups, so you have like multiple groups that face against each other but don't interbreed? 10:32:26 if that makes any sense 10:33:31 So, species? 10:33:43 is there such thing as nair for faces? because i hate shaving 10:34:26 Sgeo: I think there is, but it's mostly advertised for menopausal women 10:34:33 just stop shaving and grow a beard? 10:35:34 ... okay yeah, species <.< 10:36:06 Sgeo: I think I remember facial skin is too sensitive for that stuff 10:36:20 and guy-facial-hair probably needs really strong chemicals to burn through 10:36:55 there's laser, but I'm not sure how well that works for guys, since testosterone might make the hair regrow eventually (?) 10:39:44 ^ping 10:40:06 fizzie: there is a substantial lack of fungot 10:40:10 @ping 10:40:10 pong 10:41:33 Just grow a beard...++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++666666++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10:41:50 i... 10:41:51 i agree 10:41:55 I hate the ritual mutilation of shaving 10:42:01 what 10:42:19 Not only do I have at least one bleeding cut right now, but I'm still stubbly 10:42:39 Sgeo: I am in a similar boat 10:42:39 it's funny how "growing a beard" sounds like you're actively doing something, but it's just the absence of shaving 10:42:42 don't you think "mutilation" is a tad overdramatic 10:43:01 olsner: do you not UNDERSTAND the EFFORT that goes into GROWING A BEARD!? 10:43:05 Taneb: no 10:43:33 olsner: for a while there's the telling people that it looks crap because you're trying to grow it 10:44:06 You can just not tell people 10:44:16 But they /ask/ 10:44:19 Or do people ask you why your beard looks crap? 10:44:36 They constantly /ask/ 10:44:45 Tell them to shut up then 10:44:50 pretty sure beards don't exist & everyone who has one is actually just cutting off their hair and supergluing it to their chin 10:44:59 I have not seen any evidence to the contrary 10:45:01 Pretty sure you're wrong 10:45:05 I wish 10:45:10 Deewiant: is this finnish socialisation 10:45:16 What, beards? 10:45:25 telling people to shut up 10:45:40 In Finland you don't need to do that, people do that automatically 10:45:51 I never shaved in high school. People talked about my moustache, which made me feel awkward because my self-image is clean-shaven 10:45:51 to tell them to do that* 10:46:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:46:46 hmm 10:46:49 maybe i should upgrade the wiki 10:46:57 that would probably be a good thing to do 10:47:00 Sgeo: change your self image to match reality 10:48:07 -!- heroux has joined. 10:49:49 oh I forgot mediawiki extensions are kind of awful. :( 10:51:02 elliott: rite ur own wiki softwarez 10:51:12 Taneb: how about you do it for me 10:52:32 elliott: I need to learn latin and find a shirt with the flag of Finland on it 10:53:17 how would that help your write a wiki softwarez? 10:53:54 How would that help with anything 10:54:07 olsner: latin is the best programming language for writing a wiki softwarez (true fact tm) 10:54:16 But they only let people who look Finnish use it 10:54:21 Deewiant: how is mushbefungething 10:54:23 98 10:54:29 .com 10:54:40 elliott: Haven't touched it in months 10:54:53 can I have my money back 10:55:18 Sure, you can even have it in any currency of your choice 10:55:36 Just give me your bank account details and I'll sort it out for you 10:56:16 -!- fungot has joined. 10:56:17 Write me a library for representing arbitrary polytopes with axis-aligned sides 10:56:19 fungot: Where were you? 10:56:19 fizzie: i tried fnord few days ago 10:56:32 Oh, well, that explains it, I suppose. 10:56:58 I've heard fnord's nasty 10:57:08 As a bonus, improve upon the best known approximation for minimal tessellation of it in 3D 10:57:19 Can knock you out for weeks, if you're not careful 10:57:36 I think the 2D algorithm is optimal... as a bonus prove that it is or improve on it 10:58:09 is this for befunge. 10:58:30 Yes 10:58:33 The 2D one is 11:00:54 Deewiant: do you have a shirt with the Finnish flag on it 11:01:31 Taneb: I don't think so, no 11:01:37 Awww 11:01:43 fungot: do you? 11:01:43 Taneb: would writing code that depends on another scheme48 library y would create a slip connection. :p ( around 5 hours for the ibook.) 11:01:56 thx for dodging the question 11:02:15 To get started I just need the representation, plus a way of subtracting (hyper)rectangles from it 11:03:04 But I'm not sure of the best way to go about that so I kind of left the whole thing to chill for a while 11:03:38 The website of the bus I use is broken :*( 11:04:50 Fire alarm... 11:04:52 (I /think/ I'd need to use a proper edge data structure which kind of means that I'd have to take the existing structure I use and see about generalizing the code sufficiently that I can use it for this case as well) 11:05:04 Tanb be safe 11:06:21 Taneb be dangerous 11:06:50 unsafeTaneb 11:08:00 * Sgeo decides to walk away from comp instead of blowing a gasket at unreadable train schedules 11:09:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:26:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 11:33:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:36:43 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:37:25 Can I still type with a band-aid on my thumb? The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. 11:37:38 Huh. I didn't try to use the thumb even once. 11:39:03 The quick brown fox hunts, but the lazy hen pecks. 11:42:15 -!- carado has joined. 11:43:56 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:57:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:58:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:58:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:00:31 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:02:22 http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2013/Mar/166 Port scanning /0 using insecure embedded devices 12:02:28 kmc: ^ might find that interesting if you haven't seen? 12:07:46 2013-03-19 23:22:44 http://internetcensus2012.github.com/InternetCensus2012/paper.html so um <-- you seem to have gotten SCOOPED like an ICE CREAM there. 12:12:25 fizzie: consider this: fuck you and fuck bicycles. :( 12:14:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:15:14 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:15:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:17:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:23:50 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:28:13 -!- boily has joined. 12:33:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:43:09 elliott wants some sexy shimanos 12:48:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:51:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 13:00:45 !bfjoust meow +.+(++-.+)*-1 13:00:50 ​Score for Lymia_meow: 13.8 13:06:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:08:40 !bfjoust evo-14898-14988 (++++--+)*-1-- 13:08:45 ​Score for Lymia_evo-14898-14988: 14.9 13:08:58 !bfjoust evo-14897-15213 (+++--++)*-1 13:09:04 ​Score for Lymia_evo-14897-15213: 15.6 13:11:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:14:53 * Lymia has an idea for being stupid now 13:18:49 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[-[([(+)*8[+]]>)*-1]++[([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:18:52 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 17.3 13:18:57 bah :p 13:19:26 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[>([(+)*8[+]]>)*-1]++[>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]]>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:19:29 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 12.1 13:37:26 Lymia: is that designed to beat something in particular? 13:37:26 ais523: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:37:29 @messages 13:37:29 elliott said 12h 49m 35s ago: 2013/03/25 00:46:24 [error] 23940#0: *5967814 FastCGI sent in stderr: "PHP message: PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function getVar() on a non-object in /srv/esolangs. 13:37:29 org/www/mediawiki/extensions/AbuseFilter/special/SpecialAbuseLog.php on line 281" while reading response header from upstream, client: 95.146.57.2, server: esolangs.org, request: "GET /wiki/Special: 13:37:29 AbuseLog/33 HTTP/1.1", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php5-fpm.sock: 13:37:29 elliott said 12h 49m 20s ago: this is the error I get when trying to view the broken abuse log page 13:37:29 elliott said 12h 48m 58s ago: that line is just "if ( $vars->getVar( 'action' )->toString() == 'edit' ) {" -- I think I'll just try updating the wiki 13:39:34 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:47:26 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*-1]+>([-])*-1]])*-1 13:47:29 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 25.6 13:48:04 ooh, it's getting better 13:48:32 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 13:48:38 !bfjoust hana-no-sei < 13:48:41 ​Score for Lymia_hana-no-sei: 0.0 13:48:41 !bfjoust tiny < 13:48:44 ​Score for Lymia_tiny: 0.0 13:49:02 ais523, it's just flow with special casing for omnipotence's size one decoy. :p 13:49:16 Flow assumes that there's at least one space between the first decoy and the opponent's flag 13:49:32 !bfjoust chicken (>)*9(----++++[-]>)*30[-] 13:49:35 ​Score for boily_chicken: 4.7 13:49:46 hm. I think I fared better last time. 13:49:57 boily: "----++++"? 13:49:57 !bfjoust chicken (>)*9(----+++++[-]>)*30[-] 13:50:00 ​Score for boily_chicken: 3.5 13:50:08 ais523: don't ask. :p 13:50:26 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*3([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*3([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:50:28 Lymia: haha, that reminds me of how omnipotence beats space_hotel 13:50:30 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.1 13:50:41 it recognises its size 5 decoy and switches to a strategy designed specifically to beat it 13:51:50 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:51:53 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.1 13:52:00 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:52:04 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.2 13:52:07 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:52:10 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 26.7 13:52:12 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:52:15 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.2 13:52:41 I should write a macro language for this 13:52:46 To make things easier to write >_< 13:53:28 Lymia: careful, you're treading into autoconfy territory. next step, you'll be designing a macro language for your macros for your macros. 13:53:55 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8([-])*-1]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8([-])*-1]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8([+])*-1]>)*-1]])*-1 13:53:58 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 8.2 13:55:12 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([((+)*8[-])*2[+.]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([((+)*8[-])*2[+.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([((-)*8[+])*2[-.]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:55:12 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left. 13:55:15 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 18.3 13:55:21 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 13:55:24 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.2 13:55:50 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:55:53 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 30.7 13:56:05 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([((+)*8[-])*2[+]]>)*-1])*-1 13:56:09 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 19.9 13:56:33 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-][+]]>)*-1])*-1 13:56:36 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.3 13:56:44 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]][+]>)*-1])*-1 13:56:47 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.9 13:56:57 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]][(-)*8[+]]>)*-1])*-1 13:57:00 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 30.0 13:57:07 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(-)*8[+]][(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:57:10 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.7 13:57:15 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:57:18 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 30.7 13:57:24 No wonder why the evolver has trouble. 13:57:31 Things that seem like they won't affect the score much 13:57:34 Cause a 20 point drop 13:59:11 !bfjoust flow >>->>->++>->.(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:59:14 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 30.2 13:59:18 !bfjoust flow >>->>->.+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:59:21 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 30.0 13:59:27 !bfjoust flow >>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:59:30 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 31.2 13:59:36 !bfjoust flow >>--->>>++>>(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:59:39 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 29.8 13:59:49 !bfjoust flow >++++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 13:59:52 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 31.1 14:00:02 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:00:05 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.6 14:00:09 !bfjoust flow >++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:00:12 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.2 14:00:14 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:00:17 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.6 14:00:22 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>->+>(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:00:25 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.4 14:00:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:00:28 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:00:31 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.6 14:00:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:00:42 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:00:45 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 27.2 14:00:46 !bfjoust godkiller >+++>--->>>+>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:00:49 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 28.3 14:01:03 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:06 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 26.8 14:01:10 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*7[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:13 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.4 14:01:15 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:18 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.9 14:01:23 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*9[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:26 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 31.6 14:01:28 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*5[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:31 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 31.5 14:01:33 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*4[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:36 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 28.8 14:01:37 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->>>+>->(>[>>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:01:40 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 32.9 14:01:41 What does EgoBot test the programs against? 14:01:49 !bfjoust godkiller >+++>--->>>+>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:01:52 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 28.4 14:01:59 !bfjoust godkiller >+++>--->>>+>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:02:02 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 28.5 14:02:09 The nice thing about the programs being related is 14:02:12 Changes in one can be ported >:p 14:03:43 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:03:46 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.2 14:04:41 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*7[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*7[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:04:44 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.2 14:04:52 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*8[-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:04:55 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 28.9 14:05:08 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[--]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[++]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:05:11 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.3 14:05:20 Heh. My assumption was right :p 14:05:24 Stuff that'd trigger that case tend to try and lock 14:05:33 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:05:36 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.8 14:05:44 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:05:47 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.0 14:05:50 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.-]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.+]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:05:50 Lymia: You might consider doing some of part of that iteration in a /query, and just showing the highlights; I mean, it is kind of noisy. 14:05:53 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 26.2 14:05:58 fizzie, kk. :p 14:06:04 !bfjoust godkiller >>->>->++>->(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:06:07 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 29.8 14:08:22 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130325-colorslide.png this must be the most colorful slide I've done, at least discounting the ones with actual pictures on them. (I was thinking I'd illustrate which part goes where so that nobody has to stop and ask.) 14:10:34 fizzie: I guess you have to do that kind of thing when your audience is speech recognition researchers 14:13:51 They're not the audience for that slide. 14:14:04 Well, maybe there could be some in the audience, I don't know. 14:14:29 But the class in general doesn't have anything specifically to do with speech recognition; it's T-61.5140 Machine Learning: Advanced Probabilistic Methods. 14:14:56 (I guess it's kind of in the same field, but more general, if you want to be picky about it.) 14:17:02 ooh colors 14:18:04 It has the \beta_i^k's in magenta because they're part of both the red and blue groups. (This is what passes for wit around here.) 14:19:44 starting to understand the poverty of finnish minds 14:19:53 !bfjoust flow >+++>>--->>->+>(>[>>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:19:56 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 33.5 14:20:07 feel like this may provide clues as to why they think speech recognition research is worthwhile 14:21:05 We had a Google guy here recently who seemed to think that, too. 14:21:16 Then again, Google, right? 14:24:58 !bfjoust godkiller (>)*7(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:25:01 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 30.5 14:25:02 one day i'm going to meet fizzie irl and i will have ALL my best speech recognition zingers prepared 14:25:14 he may never recover from the burns 14:26:24 I don't get it. 14:26:32 Despite the similarity, flow needs its decoys and godkiller doesn't 14:26:49 !bfjoust godkiller < 14:26:52 ​Score for Lymia_godkiller: 0.0 14:26:54 !bfjoust aurora (>)*7(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:26:57 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 30.5 14:32:33 Lymia: using decoys slows down both programs 14:32:38 so it's a case of who benefits from the delay more 14:34:32 !bfjoust aurora (>)*4(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:34:35 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 33.9 14:34:46 !bfjoust aurora (>)*7(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:34:49 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 30.9 14:35:05 !bfjoust aurora (>)*4(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:35:08 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 33.9 14:35:58 Eh? 14:36:07 Somehow the smaller initial jump earns a win against ais523_waterfall3 14:36:35 Lymia: oh, waterfall3 is very sensitive to timing details 14:36:43 even more so than omnipotence is 14:36:43 !bfjoust aurora (>)*4(.)*3(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:36:46 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 33.0 14:36:57 so it's possible that you just happen to be hitting a combination of timings it's bad at 14:37:00 !bfjoust aurora (>)*4(>[[-[++[->>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1]->([+])*2([(+)*6[-.]]>)*-1]+>([-])*2([(-)*6[+.]]>)*-1]])*-1 14:37:03 ​Score for Lymia_aurora: 33.9 14:37:09 It keeps the waterfall win even with the extra delays 14:37:20 well, waterfall attempts to synchronize 14:37:27 it's entirely about synchronization, really 14:39:34 And the only thing sacrified is win->tie for Deewiant_tolstoi.bfjoust 14:41:16 !bfjoust flow >+++>--->(>[>>([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1])*-1 14:41:21 ​Score for Lymia_flow: 37.0 14:48:09 -!- carado_ has joined. 14:58:51 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:04:12 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:07:52 -!- lahwran- has changed nick to lahwran. 15:21:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:30:34 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:34:13 fizzie, something is seriously wrong with your match time plot 15:34:20 The two "<"s on the hill right now have red cells 15:34:23 Which is impossible 15:35:01 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:40:47 -!- Lumpio_ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 15:44:43 !bfjoust generation-358_evo-27660-27915 -..->--[-..->--[-..->--[-..->--[-..->--[+]+]+]+]+]+ 15:44:46 ​Score for Lymia_generation-358_evo-27660-27915: 10.1 15:48:32 Lymia: There are no "<"s in my plot. 15:48:47 The smallest program in it has 16 characters. 15:49:02 fizzie, I reran it on the current hill 15:49:04 Which has Well, which plot is this about? 15:49:37 Plain "cycles"? 15:49:45 It's the really chaotic one 15:49:51 That's supposed to be how many cycles it takes 15:50:19 !bfjoust generation-364_evo-27660-28619 --.->-[--.->-[--.->-[--.->-[--.->-[+]+]+]+]+]+ 15:50:22 ​Score for Lymia_generation-364_evo-27660-28619: 10.1 15:50:34 wee counting points vs counting csore 15:50:35 score* 15:50:37 And you're using the fixed version of cranklance? 15:51:03 Fixed version of cranklance? 15:51:18 Something that's later than http://git.zem.fi/chainlance/commit/e50392f 15:51:51 I'm not sure 15:51:52 I might not be 15:52:07 2013-03-24 19:47:25 Lymia: You'll want to update your cranklance to fix what was discussed above, if you're doing cranking. 15:52:28 I'll retry it with that in a bit 15:52:35 !bfjoust generation-365_evo-28453-28710 >-.->.-[>-.->.-[>-.->.-[>-.->.-[>-.->.-[+]+]+]+]+]+ 15:52:38 ​Score for Lymia_generation-365_evo-28453-28710: 0.0 15:52:43 0? 15:53:04 -!- carado has joined. 15:53:16 -!- carado has quit (Client Quit). 15:53:47 urgh x.x 15:53:51 I'm going to have to teach my evolver about 15:53:55 Convincing and not-convincing wins 15:54:21 !bfjoust generation-368_evo-27660-28982 >.-->-[>.-->-[>.-->-[>.-->-[>.-->-[+]+]+]+]+]+ 15:54:24 ​Score for Lymia_generation-368_evo-27660-28982: 0.0 15:54:32 fizzie, think 15:54:42 wins*wins*sign(wins) would be a decent indicator? 15:56:30 I don't know what "wins" is, and when it would be negative. 15:57:02 Erm. 15:57:03 score* 15:57:05 [Average fitness: -154911.90625, Max fitness: -52880.0] 15:57:07 this is distressing 16:00:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:01:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:02:31 -!- Shambhala has joined. 16:05:04 hello 16:05:17 Hello, Shambhala 16:05:30 how are you? 16:05:38 Tired and ill 16:05:42 I also have a stiff neck 16:05:48 its not good 16:06:26 I have a stupid immune system and I slept on someone's living room floor right next to a Metro line night before last 16:06:29 Do you people know each other? (It certainly had the appearance of that.) 16:08:55 oh I feel for you 16:11:47 what kind of metro 16:12:41 kmc, Tyne and Wear Metro 16:14:35 !bfjoust generation-375_evo-28745-29431 >--->-[>--->-[>--->-[>--->-[>--->-[+]+]+]+]+]+ 16:14:39 ​Score for Lymia_generation-375_evo-28745-29431: 0.0 16:14:43 fizzie, I do not know Shambhala, as far as I am aware 16:17:22 Taneb: probably best to check if he/she's from Hexham 16:17:23 just in case 16:17:26 `welcome Shambhala 16:17:29 Shambhala: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:17:36 ais523, I do know people from outside of Hexham 16:17:42 Taneb: yes 16:17:50 but three hexhamites being in the channel would be even more of a coincidence than two 16:17:58 Shambhala, are you from Hexham? 16:18:09 no 16:18:13 phew 16:18:31 !bfjoust generation-375_evo-28745-29431_golfed (>--->-[{+}]+)%5 16:18:34 ​Score for Lymia_generation-375_evo-28745-29431_golfed: 0.0 16:18:38 !bfjoust generation-375_evo-28745-29431_golfed (--->-[{+}]+)%10 16:18:42 ​Score for Lymia_generation-375_evo-28745-29431_golfed: 12.0 16:18:45 v.v; 16:18:50 What is the evolver thinking 16:19:50 -!- Shambhala has left. 16:20:55 Lymia: yeah, that just stops after a while 16:21:01 or if it finds any decoy of size 1 16:21:09 it's like a halfhearted rush that gives up after a bit 16:21:34 ais523, it thinks this is /better/ than previous generations. 16:21:38 Which makes me go WTF 16:21:41 hmm, yes 16:21:45 mistake somewhere, presumably 16:21:48 I'm going to guess that it rushes faster. 16:21:50 there was a famous incident in the very early days of BF Joust 16:21:53 Causing it to win against more enemies. 16:21:56 where the hill marked wins as losses, and losses as wins 16:21:59 and nobody noticed for a while 16:22:30 ais523, as far as I can tell, this would rush faster in some cases. 16:22:37 Which could be enough for it to win half the time against more enemies. 16:22:38 yes 16:22:50 Which would make a fitness increase overall. 16:22:52 !bfjoust pure_rush (>)*8(>+[-])*21 16:22:55 But a decease by EgoBot's terms 16:22:55 ​Score for ais523_pure_rush: 8.4 16:23:01 interesting 16:23:08 it does worse than your golfed evolver 16:23:16 oh, I see, your evolver trails 16:23:30 !bfjoust pure_rush_with_Trail (+++>)*8(>+[-])*21 16:23:33 ​Score for ais523_pure_rush_with_Trail: 15.0 16:23:42 yeah, that's similar to a fixed version of what your program is doing 16:23:49 !bfjoust pure_rush_with_Trail < 16:23:52 ​Score for ais523_pure_rush_with_Trail: 0.0 16:25:12 ais523, what's EgoBot's algorithm for stuff like that anyways? 16:25:23 "algorithm"? 16:25:45 It's clearly counting neutral (i.e. no overall losses or wins against programs) as worse than some losses and some wins. 16:26:00 ... 16:26:00 Ah 16:26:04 It filters out negative points 16:26:51 yeah, it only counts wins 16:29:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:32:38 -!- Shambhala has joined. 16:32:42 -!- Shambhala has left. 16:32:56 !bfjoust best ((++-+++-)*-1++-+++-)*-1++-+++- 16:33:00 ​Score for Lymia_best: 17.4 16:33:00 !bfjoust best < 16:33:03 ​Score for Lymia_best: 0.0 16:34:55 Lymia: you put some code after a *-1? 16:35:10 I didn't. 16:35:15 My code did 16:35:30 right 16:35:40 it might work better (or might not!) to cut out dead code 16:36:13 (wow, harsh much) 16:36:22 (the evolver just declared an entire specis no good.) 16:36:36 Speciation is actually working quite nicely. 16:36:55 I checked each species-- rushes and vibrators are defiantly getting separated. 16:39:37 I wonder if it'll ever evolve a lock-based program 16:39:40 ... v.v 16:39:43 And then the rushes died out. 16:39:46 ais523, lock-based being? 16:39:47 my guess is no, there are no obvious intermediate steps 16:39:50 omnipotence and such? 16:40:08 Lymia: a program that tries to trap the opponent in an infinite loop while slowly grinding away 16:40:12 Yeah. 16:40:14 omnipotence uses it as a backup strategy 16:40:14 That'd be hard. 16:40:21 It'd need to account for polarities. 16:40:27 To begin with. 16:40:32 Then, the position of the head when it does something... 16:40:53 ais523, actually. a pesudo-lock might be evolvable. 16:41:27 the problem is not writing the lock itself, (+.)*-1 can work against many programs 16:41:38 it's writing a way to win without breaking the lock 16:41:45 (>)*9[[(+.)*100(<)*9(+)*100(>)*9]>] 16:41:50 !bfjoust test (>)*9[[(+.)*100(<)*9(+)*100(>)*9]>] 16:41:54 ​Score for Lymia_test: 7.3 16:41:54 !bfjoust test < 16:41:57 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 16:41:58 ​Score for Lymia_test: 0.0 16:42:42 this is why defence programs are so long 16:42:44 !bfjoust test (>)*9[[(+.)*50(<)*9(+)*100(>)*9]>] 16:42:47 ​Score for Lymia_test: 7.2 16:42:47 there's no known short way to write a full-tape clear 16:42:49 !bfjoust test < 16:42:52 ​Score for Lymia_test: 0.0 16:42:58 ais523, yeah. 16:43:02 Lymia: that runs off the end of the program if there's nothing on cell 9 16:43:09 and there probably is nothing on cell 9 16:43:19 Oh right :p 16:43:25 !bfjoust test (>)*9([(+.)*50(<)*9(+)*100(>)*9]>)*-1 16:43:28 ​Score for Lymia_test: 10.3 16:43:38 !bfjoust test (>+)*9([(+.)*50(<)*9(+)*100(>)*9]>)*-1 16:43:41 ​Score for Lymia_test: 2.5 16:43:45 !bfjoust test < 16:43:48 ​Score for Lymia_test: 0.0 16:43:54 Right. We have a stupid hill where no decoys sometimes beats decoys 16:44:12 Lymia: that's to be expected, really 16:44:21 omnipotence can function just fine without the decoy 16:44:28 it's actually there for constant-tweaking purposes 16:45:01 but in general, any pattern is exploitable 16:45:01 ais523, my current direction of development is trying to make an encoding that can encode repetitive stuff like that, without spelling out every loop. 16:45:16 programs like the anticipation series rely on opponents using the same clear loop on every cell, for instance 16:45:46 and so are really easily defeated by an opponent designed to beat them 16:45:54 or that just acts unusually 16:46:07 e.g. omnipotence doesn't use a traditional clear loop, and against anticipation, anticipation zeroes its own flag as a result 16:46:45 Any program written by me is gonna be pretty nave 16:48:02 ais523, I'm thinking that 16:48:19 The only viable option is an evolver that can somehow evolve on a level of patterns, to where it can develop complex stuff like that 16:48:28 I havn't yet found a representation that works well. 16:49:30 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:49:34 yep 16:49:40 -!- jconn has joined. 16:50:08 !bfjoust evolved-vibration (-.+++)*-1 16:50:12 ​Score for Lymia_evolved-vibration: 18.6 16:50:57 -!- LostProphet has joined. 16:51:12 -!- LostProphet has left. 16:52:07 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:58:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:02:23 ais523, rerunning with no external hill. 17:02:28 This time, with EgoBot-like score rules 17:02:32 Let's see how it works out~ :p 17:06:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:06:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:06:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:07:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:51 -!- glogbot has joined. 17:08:52 -!- glogbackup has left. 17:08:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 17:08:55 -!- HackEgo has joined. 17:09:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:11:07 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:11:30 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest36609. 17:11:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:13:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:14:33 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:17:12 -!- carado has joined. 17:17:33 ais523, as of generation 15 17:17:52 "max fitness" is a measure of approximately what percentage of the population immediately commits suicide. 17:19:39 Lymia: :) 17:20:00 wouldn't species that immediately committed suicide die out pretty quickly, though? 17:20:30 Well. 17:20:41 It's only certain individuals who gain an < opcode 17:20:41 :p 17:21:04 The occational 0.0 is those 17:28:52 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:30:01 ais523, a lot of the instant suicides are because of code I added to not give empty organisms a chance. (i.e, they're replaced with <) 17:31:00 Because of the way the system works, an empty organism is a pretty good sign that none of its genes can be activated-- which is hard to undo 17:31:18 * Lymia still needs to write crossover 17:33:33 -!- heroux has joined. 17:35:37 -!- augur has joined. 17:37:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:38:46 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:40:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:44:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:44:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:44:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:45:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:55:34 Hey Taneb 17:55:38 Hey 17:55:45 How are you? 17:55:48 Crap 17:55:59 D: 17:58:37 -!- Bike has joined. 18:01:14 Sry if this is a stupid question: It's said that there are infinitely many prime numbers and the higher you count the fewer primes you get. Shouldn't that mean the prime counting sequence converges to 0 and therefore primes are finite? 18:01:31 No. 18:01:46 If Pi contains an infinite number of numbers, is it possible that within this infinity, there is an infinite series of 1's? 18:02:00 No. 18:02:02 Pi? or pi? 18:02:22 Pie. Definitely Pie. 18:02:28 How can zero be counted as a positive number? What is a definition of a positive number (that does not use zero in its definition)? 18:02:29 dbelange, it's happily asymptote to 0 18:02:47 dbelange, it can't, and I can't think of one 18:03:01 dbelange: there are infinitely many powers of two, and the higher you count the further apart they are 18:03:03 Can any of you think of a real world culture in which the concept of negative or irrational numbers was established before the concept of 0? Furthermore, what was the context of the irrational or negative concept? 18:03:16 yet there are clearly an infinite number of powers of two 18:04:03 if there were an infinite run of 1's in pi, then it would have a repeating decimal expansion and thus be rational 18:04:28 but pi is irrational and you can find many proofs of this online 18:04:47 it is hypothesized that the expansion of pi contains every *finite* digit sequence 18:04:51 but this is not proven 18:05:16 Ancient Greece was a culture that had irrationals but not zero `-` 18:06:06 pi is conjectured to be normal: in any base b, any sequence of k digits occurs with frequency b^-k 18:07:16 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 18:07:42 there's basically only one number that's been proven normal; even though almost all real numbers are normal 18:08:27 kind of like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khinchin%27s_constant 18:08:36 which is a really weird mathematical fact 18:09:12 for almost all real numbers, the geometric mean of the continued fraction coefficients is 2.6854520010... 18:09:33 also "It is not known if Khinchin's constant is a rational, algebraic irrational or transcendental number" 18:09:50 good number. 18:10:30 the feigenbaum constants are about as weird for me. 18:12:13 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:12:16 dbelange: "What is a definition of a positive number (that does not use zero in its definition)" <-- this is a fairly meaningless question I think 18:12:27 you can say "a positive number is either one, or the successor of a positive number" 18:13:00 0.5 ? 18:13:13 which defines the terms "positive number", "one", and "successor", ignoring whatever external definition they had 18:13:19 that's a perfectly fine mathematical formalism 18:13:33 it's isomorphic to the natural numbers except that you've renamed "zero" to "one" 18:14:19 however if you want to define addition and multiplication and whatever on these "positive numbers" then you don't get very far 18:14:35 because there's no additive identity so it doesn't have group or even monoid structure 18:14:59 or else you take "one" to be the additive identity and then it really is zero just with a funny name 18:15:17 number is only three degrees to philosophy: number -> mathematical object -> abstract object (redirect to: abstract and concrete) -> philosophy. 18:15:36 dbelange: is this homework or something 18:15:40 O, you play Wikipedia. 18:16:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Quit: Bye). 18:16:32 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:16:37 -!- kmc has set topic: The 2^4+1th vigintile welcoming channel on Freenode. You have been warned. | Safe when used as directed. | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for Joe Chip. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 18:16:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:16:56 do not taunt happy fun #esoteric 18:18:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:18:25 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:20:20 -!- Mucho has joined. 18:20:59 -!- Sanky_ has changed nick to Sanky. 18:21:21 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 18:22:32 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:26:48 -!- Zuu_ has left ("Leaving"). 18:30:00 I can view what individual player is most rebound, most scoring, most stealing, most block, most three points, etc, but isn't teamwork more important? 18:34:14 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:40:26 My *team* is the most stealing, but not my player, for example. 18:41:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:43:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:43:56 Should I trust my intuition or my quick calculation 18:44:26 yes. 18:47:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:47:30 Whatever works for the circumstances. 18:47:55 I thought intuition and a quick calculation were the same thing? 18:49:07 Intuition is "what it should be" 18:49:33 Quick calculation is "what's the inverse cos of 0.8" 18:53:42 The AI in Pokemon Card GB2 draws too many cards!! 18:57:03 zzo38, so many it breaks the rules? 18:57:16 Or just more than would form the optimum strategy 18:58:42 zzo38: the AI in the original Pokémon Card for GB gets a luck advantage, as well 18:58:51 the most powerful opponents never have a bad starting hand 18:59:16 Taneb: No, I mean more than the strategy. They lose due to having too many cards. 18:59:36 zzo38, that's roughly what I meant 18:59:47 (I don't know the Pokemon Card game at all) 19:00:06 (other than the fact that Team Rocket's Meowth doesn't evolve into Persian) 19:00:35 > 17 ^ 2 19:00:37 289 19:01:24 -!- oerjan has set topic: The 2^4+1st vigintile welcoming channel on Freenode. You have been warned. | Safe when used as directed. | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for Joe Chip. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:01:28 Taneb: Well, if you have the card "Team Rocket's Meowth" then you can only evolve into "Team Rocket's Persian". 19:01:45 zzo38, that is literally all I remember from the TCG 19:02:02 Evolving "Team Rocket's Meowth" into "Persian" is not allowed, though. 19:02:10 ais523: I didn't know that. Now I know. 19:02:19 Still, the AI is not very good. 19:02:41 team rocket's meowth evolving would completely ruin the anime 19:03:05 It'd be like Ash's Pikachu evolving 19:03:21 ais523: I know, but this is the card game. The card "Team Rocket's Persian" may not exist, but it would be the card it could be evolved into if it did exist. 19:03:33 In Pokemon Card GB2 the AI is a bit better, but still not very good, such as they draw too many cards. 19:03:50 And are not very good at defense. 19:04:09 Team Rocket should evolve too, if there is a Persian to their Meowth. 19:04:21 Thinking about it, in the anime, there was a Team Rocket's Persian 19:04:26 It was owned by Giovanni 19:04:35 "Jessie evolved into Giovanni" 19:04:52 "James evolved into pile of money that only exists in Meowth's imagination!" 19:05:10 Taneb: yeah, Giovanni had a Persian 19:05:23 but it's clearly a different Pokémon from the Meowth that's featured in basically every episode 19:05:42 Hey, time travel does exist in the anime canon 19:06:15 O, so that is why it is inconsistent. 19:06:27 zzo38, I was referring to the fourth movie 19:06:33 In particular 19:08:05 How I usually play the card game though is when cards are picked at random to construct the deck, allow evolving into any card with the same energy type as long as all of the cards in the stack are capable of evolving that high. Evolving into the proper card is also OK, even if the type is wrong. 19:11:19 We put ten cards face-up on the floor, and then take turns selecting one. This is repeated, with the players alternating the first pick, until we have 45 cards each. If any basic energy cards come up while doing this, they are put aside and replacements are put in. When we each have 45 cards, we construct a deck using a subset of those cards and basic energy cards to make 60 cards in total. 19:11:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:12:28 Taneb: I'm not entirely sure if the movies are canon 19:12:51 actually, I think the usual rule is that Celebi is capable of time travel, and Dialga is effectively omnipotent when it comes to time 19:12:56 and nothing else can time travel naturally 19:13:11 Okay, if you treat the movies as canon, it's not completely inconceivable that Meowth is Persian 19:13:22 And Dialga could take Meowth back 19:13:36 time travel's never been seen to be capable of duplicating people in Pokémon, as far as I know 19:13:48 although, yeah, Dialga can do anything like that because that's its shtick 19:14:02 (cf. Explorers of Time and Darkness with Grovyle) 19:14:03 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:14:08 yeah 19:15:12 But I don't think I care about this at all 19:18:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:20:10 what is this on my scrollback 19:20:38 Phantom_Hoover, new Ubuntu release discussion 19:20:45 -!- heroux has joined. 19:21:27 oh 19:21:33 is ubuntu code for pokemon 19:22:28 http://xkcd.com/178/ 19:23:15 proof positive that xkcd has always had duds 19:23:27 early xkcd is worse than recent xkcd on average 19:23:52 idk, there's a certain sincerity to it 19:25:06 http://xkcd.com/3/ is the funniest 19:25:36 I think xkcd's job is mostly being insightful, rather than funny 19:25:46 it should entertain in the "I didn't know that" or "I didn't think of that" sense 19:25:53 rather than the "that's a good joke" sense 19:26:19 or it's not xkcd, but a different website altogether 19:28:07 there are some painfully bad old strips yeah 19:28:26 but the best strips from the early days are something it very very rarely hits now 19:28:27 q what is the obvious generalizsation of (.)? 19:28:43 :t ((Control.Category..),fmap) 19:28:44 (Functor f, Control.Category.Category cat) => (cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c, (a1 -> b1) -> f a1 -> f b1) 19:28:55 ais523, it'd be like IWC without Lego or roleplaying or science 19:29:03 Or Homestuck without the I don't want to know 19:29:19 :t [(Control.Category..),fmap] 19:29:20 [(b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c] 19:29:40 ais523: I think you're right that it tries to teach and amaze, but it's usually a poor fit for the graphical medium 19:29:58 i mean every month or two there's a cool visualization 19:30:09 yes 19:30:15 http://xkcd.com/32/ 19:30:16 but mostly, it's like, two stick figures discuss wikipedia using dialogue that in no way resembles how people actually talk 19:30:17 oh my god 19:30:18 this is why what if is better than the main xckd 19:30:20 *xkcd 19:30:21 then a pannel with an unfunny punchlinke 19:30:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:23 punchline 19:30:30 comic... sans 19:30:32 then a panel with completely pointless post-punchline dialogue 19:31:20 Phantom_Hoover, it's used in a comic so that makes slightly more appropriate 19:31:26 At least it isn't Papyrus 19:31:52 but comic sans looks nothing like actual comic lettering! 19:31:54 probably xkcd started going downhill when it became a staple of the subculture it was trying to propagate and comment on 19:32:12 either that or randall munroe just ran out of funny things his MIT friends told him about 19:33:21 Hm. I think I just came up with an esoteric programming language. 19:33:25 (.) :: cat b c -> f b -> f c 19:33:31 tswett: wow! 19:33:32 is what we need 19:34:03 tswett: good :D 19:34:13 class Dottable cat f where (.) :: cat b c -> f b -> f c 19:34:15 (how would one translate «combientième» in English?) 19:34:17 oerjan: imo (.) = rmap or (.) = flip lmap 19:34:23 @ty rmap 19:34:25 Profunctor p => (b -> c) -> p a b -> p a c 19:34:26 @ty lmap 19:34:27 Profunctor p => (a -> b) -> p b c -> p a c 19:34:40 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:34:41 i like how the wp article in star trek into darkness still has two different kinds of page protection on it 19:34:56 shachaf: um my type generalizes at least rmap 19:35:03 ~duck star trek into darkness 19:35:04 Star Trek Into Darkness is an upcoming American science fiction action film directed by J. J. Abrams, written by Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, and Damon Lindelof, and produced by Abrams, Bryan Burk, Lindelof, Kurtzman, and Orci. 19:35:19 oerjan: fmap also generaliszes rmap 19:35:22 boily: looking at monolingual definitions of "combentième", I think that English just doesn't have a word for that. 19:35:38 oerjan: want to wrestle on the floor about it 19:35:49 tswett: I wanted to ask «c'est ton combientième?», but stumbled midway in English. 19:35:56 You could say "whichth", but only if you're trying to confuse your readers. 19:35:59 shachaf: hm i guess it does 19:36:41 tswett: my translator brain-module is due for an oil change. it gets stuck much too often. 19:37:05 Yeah, I think you just can't do that in English. You'd have to say something like "How many have you done before?" 19:37:16 * oerjan throws Phantom_Hoover into an spj lecture 19:38:14 Or I guess you could say "How many does this make?" (the answer being "this makes five" if this is my fifth). 19:38:50 You know what, I think I'm going to name this language Combientième. 19:39:04 I am honoured. 19:39:14 Since it's going to be kind of like Forth, and I wanted to make a pun on that name. 19:40:24 -!- heroux has joined. 19:42:07 tswett: you need to leave out one of the vowels in the diphtong hth 19:42:47 hm i guess there are two diphthongs, maybe? 19:42:58 there are no diphtongs in French. 19:43:28 Maybe I need to respell it in some other way that leaves the pronunciation the same. 19:43:39 How would "combientièm" be pronounced? Would the "m" be silent? 19:43:43 hm maybe leave out the final e, it's essentially silent like the u in fourth 19:43:47 and in that case, those are only glides: /kɔ̃bjɛ̃tjɛm/ 19:44:39 i'm not enough of a linguist to know the difference between a glide and a diphtong. 19:45:16 tswett: chopping off the silent e wouldn't change the pronounciation. 19:45:17 i mean, there's something written as a vowel and pronounced almost like a consonant, next to something written as a vowel and pronounced as one. 19:45:43 a diphtong is a smooth transition between to vowels. 19:45:58 It wouldn't change the pronunciation from /kɔ̃.bjɛ̃.tjɛm/ to /kɔ̃.bjɛ̃.tjɑ̃/? 19:46:37 no, because it'd need to be an «n» instead of an «m» to get /ɑ̃/. 19:47:00 * tswett nods. 19:47:05 oerjan: French orthography is mainly a cheaty obfuscatory encoding. 19:47:31 combien tu m'aimes 19:47:50 dbelange: ne vois-tu pas dans mes yeux sensuels que je t'adore :p 19:47:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:48:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:48:35 boily: well it's not as cheaty as english. 19:48:58 i recall you can mostly do one direction by simple rules 19:48:58 I beg to differ. 19:49:04 -!- Mucho has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:50:31 oerjan: e.g. "they loved" -> «ils aimaient». you need 5 letters (aient) for a simple /ɛ/. 19:50:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:51:20 a diphtong is a smooth transition between to vowels. <-- this definition _might_ imply that what i have learned are called diphthongs in norwegian aren't... or perhaps it's that some other combinations that are _not_ written with vowel letters _are_... 19:51:27 "thorough" in English has a one-letter schwa... then a 4-letter schwa 19:52:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:52:06 ~duck diphtong 19:52:07 A diphthong, also known as a gliding vowel, refers to two adjacent vowel sounds occurring within the same syllable. 19:52:07 boily: well -ent is a bit special. 19:52:20 damn you, duck! way to confuse me. 19:52:25 Taneb: you should start spelling it þoro 19:52:44 olsner, that just makes me think of frozen yoghurt 19:52:45 Taneb: true. good counter-example. 19:53:00 þoroly frozen yoghurt? 19:54:11 el þoro 19:54:39 froyo vs oro 20:00:43 I think I found an interesting explanation about glides and diphtongs: http://linguistics.stackexchange.com/a/1147 20:02:41 the in "thorough" isn't a schwa, is it 20:03:06 oh apparently it is for some speakers 20:03:28 I say it something like "owe" 20:03:36 or "oh"? 20:03:43 nooodl, some accents it's like oh, some it's like uh 20:03:46 I say it like uh 20:03:49 thuruh 20:04:16 when i was a kid i pronounced it as "through" 20:04:47 i just read "thoroughly" as "throughly" for the longest time. then i realized, wow, hey, there's an o in there 20:05:06 I pronounce through throoo 20:05:17 doesn't everyone! 20:06:05 I also taneb it. 20:09:07 @tell elliott btw, I came up with an interim method for dealing with the spambots while the abuse filter is broken; if I see that it would have blocked a spambot but didn't due to being broken, I block the spambot by hand before it can post elsewhere 20:09:08 Consider it noted. 20:10:38 -!- augur has joined. 20:26:58 > id 3 20:26:58 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 20:27:18 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:28:18 ~eval id-3 20:28:20 Error (1): 20:28:28 ah! as informative as ever :D 20:29:05 I opened up GHCi. It evaluates id 3 as 3. 20:30:01 > id-3 20:30:04 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a0)) 20:30:04 arising from a use of `e_13' 20:30:04 P... 20:30:20 > id(-3) 20:30:22 -3 20:30:36 ~eval id―3 20:30:37 Error (1): Not in scope: `―' 20:32:04 -!- Guest36609 has changed nick to Gregor. 20:34:19 > ı̇d-3 20:34:19 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 20:34:34 is metasepia a species of cuttlefish? 20:35:24 oh, it's a whole genus 20:35:38 > id-З 20:35:38 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 20:35:43 `run ls bin/*utf* 20:35:44 ~eval id-З 20:35:45 Error (1): Not in scope: data constructor `З' 20:35:45 bin/toutf8 20:35:48 ~eval id 3 20:35:50 3 20:36:05 `toutf8 id 3 20:36:15 It only works if your nick starts with t. 20:36:24 -!- boily has changed nick to toily. 20:36:25 `echo hi 20:36:26 hi 20:36:31 `toutf8 id-3 20:36:36 No output. 20:36:43 `echo 'id 3' | toutf8 20:36:45 ​'id 3' | toutf8 20:36:50 -!- toily has changed nick to boily. 20:36:51 `run echo 'id 3' | toutf8 20:36:53 id 3 20:37:02 No output. 20:37:20 this is not the program you are looking for, oerjan 20:37:31 `run ls bin/*8* 20:37:33 bin/toutf8 20:37:47 `run ls bin/*uni* 20:37:49 bin/units 20:38:02 So what does toutf8 do? 20:38:15 i don't know, i think i was looking for something else 20:38:19 `run echo á | xxd 20:38:20 0000000: c3a1 0a ... 20:38:24 `cat bin/toutf8 20:38:25 ​#!/usr/bin/python \ import sys \ import chardet \ x = sys.stdin.read() \ enc = chardet.detect(x)['encoding'] \ sys.stdout.write(x.decode(enc).encode('UTF-8')) 20:38:47 ^show 20:38:47 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping 20:38:54 `run echo id 3 | xxd 20:38:56 0000000: 6964 e19a 8033 0a id...3. 20:39:09 `run echo あ | od -Ax -tx1z -v 20:39:11 000000 e3 81 82 0a >....< \ 000004 20:40:17 i am pretty sure fizzie or someone showed me there was a program to write out the codepoints on a line, and i thought it was on HackEgo 20:40:39 !userinterps 20:40:39 ​Installed user interpreters: about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf sanetemp sf 20:41:06 `ord id 3 20:41:07 105 100 5760 51 20:41:09 *sigh* 20:41:14 oh that it was 20:41:20 ^ord id 3 20:41:21 105 100 225 154 128 51 20:41:22 wtf name is "ord" 20:41:28 oerjan: ord/chr? 20:41:47 `chr 105 100 5760 51 20:41:47 `ord 1 2 3 4 5 20:41:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: chr: not found 20:41:48 49 32 50 32 51 32 52 32 53 20:42:39 `ord 53 51 32 53 49 32 51 50 32 53 51 32 52 57 20:42:41 53 51 32 53 49 32 51 50 32 53 51 32 52 57 32 51 50 32 53 49 32 53 48 32 51 50 32 53 51 32 53 49 32 51 50 32 53 50 32 53 55 20:43:29 !show elmer 20:43:30 perl for (<>) {lc; s/l(?!e\W)/w/g; s/\Ber|(? !show fudd 20:43:37 sh fudd 20:44:10 hmm, that gibberish has a certain beauty 20:44:28 EgoBot still exists? 20:44:29 not quite as much as ursala programs though 20:45:31 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:46:26 :t stripPrefix 20:46:27 Eq a => [a] -> [a] -> Maybe [a] 20:46:38 darn Maybes 20:47:35 > fix (unwords . map (show . ord) . ('5':) . tail) 20:47:39 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:47:45 wat 20:48:00 > fix (unwords . map (show . ord) . ('5':) . tail) 20:48:04 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:48:06 @type unwords . map (show . ord) . ('5':) . tail 20:48:08 [Char] -> String 20:48:11 something too strict? 20:48:16 tail is strict. 20:48:37 Wait, is it? 20:48:42 that shouldn't matter there 20:48:43 No, that shouldn't matter. 20:49:25 maybe unwords is too strict 20:49:26 > fix (unwords . map (show . ord) . ("53 51 ") . drop 6) 20:49:27 Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> [GHC.Types.Char]' 20:49:28 with act... 20:49:32 > fix (unwords . map (show . ord) . ("53 51 "++) . drop 6) 20:49:34 "53 51 32 53 49 32 51 50 32 53 51 32 52 57 32 51 50 32 53 49 32 53 48 32 51... 20:50:20 > unwords . map (show . ord) $ '5':undefined 20:50:22 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:50:59 > unwords $ "53" : undefined 20:51:01 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:51:05 seems so 20:51:48 @src unwords 20:51:48 unwords [] = "" 20:51:48 unwords ws = foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) ws 20:52:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:52:27 > let unwords [] = ""; unwords ws = foldr1 (\w s -> w ++ ' ':s) ws in unwords $ "53" : undefined 20:52:29 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:53:23 ok foldr1 does need to know whether there is a following element 20:54:02 @src foldr1 20:54:02 foldr1 _ [x] = x 20:54:02 foldr1 f (x:xs) = f x (foldr1 f xs) 20:54:02 foldr1 _ [] = undefined 20:55:53 > fix (map ord . show) 20:55:57 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 20:56:26 > undefined :: [Int] 20:56:28 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 20:57:07 so much slightly inferior laziness 20:57:17 .nixon 20:58:21 > fix (map ord . ('[':) . tail . show) 20:58:23 [91,57,49,44,53,55,44,52,57,44,52,52,44,53,51,44,53,53,44,52,52,44,53,50,44... 20:58:33 @nixon 20:58:34 In a flat choice between smoke and jobs, we're for jobs...But just keep me out of trouble on environmental issues. 21:01:48 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:02:12 also performing arbitrary computation by means of conditional vacation autoresponders <-- i hope this is your actual vacation message? 21:02:38 sadly no 21:02:46 aww 21:03:59 kmc: sounds like fun anyway 21:04:33 did someone accidentally the vacation autoresponder turing complete? 21:05:06 it's hypothetical but I think someone should do it 21:05:14 (if you want a verb, feel free to add "make" after accidentally) 21:06:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:07:53 (then again, "make" is a simple enough verb that it really should be optional) 21:09:51 How can I explain the difference in meaning between "my" and "of me"? 21:10:52 is there one? 21:11:07 I... think so? 21:11:17 well I guess I can't help then 21:11:20 at best it's contextual 21:11:37 maybe give some examples where you think "of me" is actually incorrect, as opposed to just awkward in the sense of "nobody would actually say that" 21:11:48 ofc. admitting a distinction between these is the thin end of the prescriptivist wedge! 21:12:10 I can't immediately think of a case where "my" and "of me" can both be used and have different meanings. 21:12:11 IS YOUR WASHROOM BREEDING PRESCRIPTIVISTS? 21:12:18 Especially in latin (mei vs. meus) 21:13:24 what's meus 21:14:08 "my", masculine accusative 21:14:10 there's a difference between "picture of me" and "my picture" 21:14:23 Aha, there is. 21:14:43 "Picture of me" always means "picture depicting me", never "picture owned by me". 21:15:01 Whereas "my picture" could mean either. 21:15:10 Taneb, it apparently isn't 21:15:19 ("Let me give you his picture.") 21:15:20 i think "of" is a bit overloaded 21:15:29 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meus#Latin 21:15:34 it's the masculine nominative 21:15:42 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:15:42 It's overoverloaded. 21:15:45 which... doesn't mean 'of me' 21:16:09 wait this is confusing 21:16:20 Bah 21:16:26 Thinko, sorry 21:16:34 what's the difference between meus and ego... 21:16:49 Phantom_Hoover, meus is an adjective, ego is a pronoun 21:16:52 something like me vs myself? 21:17:01 my vs I 21:17:06 isn't... that... what the genitive's for 21:17:16 the genitive of ego is mei 21:17:17 hth 21:18:06 "pictura mei" is a picture of me, "pictura mea" is my picture 21:18:07 Taneb: now include "of mine" in this hth 21:18:09 :confuse: 21:18:53 nooodl, but the genitive can also be written 'of me' and 'picture of me' is valid both ways in english 21:20:16 would you really say stuff like 21:20:21 "this is a pen of me." 21:20:29 instead of "this is my pen" 21:21:24 y...es 21:21:58 note that 'this is taneb's picture' could also refer to a picture depicting taneb 21:22:46 what're we even being confused about 21:22:51 i uh 21:22:53 don't know 21:22:54 nooodl: language 21:22:55 meus vs mei in Latin 21:23:13 meus is "belonging to me", always 21:23:29 if you want to use other genitives than the possessive one, use mei 21:23:48 woah, are there several genitives? 21:23:55 "metus mei" "fear of me" 21:24:05 there's a good list near the top of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case 21:24:25 that's like 12 genitives o.O 21:24:30 the "composition" one is used really often too ("a bottle of wine") but that isn't really easy to use with "me" 21:24:43 a bottle of me? 21:24:45 maybe stuff like "you want a piece of me?!" but that doesn't translate well to latin obviously 21:24:49 olsner: just wait until you get to latin's versions of _infinitives_... 21:25:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablative_(Latin) 21:25:22 "over 15 uses!" 21:30:35 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 21:35:27 oh, how stupid... the tv series "24" uses a 12h clock, so half way through the series you're back at 01 21:36:51 24 doesn't take place entirely in a single day, does it? 21:37:02 Here, have an esolang: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Combienti%C3%A8m 21:37:03 i thought that was the whole gimmick 21:37:19 however time keeps going during commercial breaks 21:37:34 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:37:35 presumably that's when jack bauer goes to the bathroom 21:37:41 everyone stops doing bad stuff during commercial breaks 21:39:16 Ah. *Each season* takes place entirely in a single day. 21:39:23 it's one day per season, which is what a british person would call a "series" 21:39:50 So what do Brits call series? 21:39:55 programmes 21:39:57 Do they just call them programmes? 21:39:57 maybe 21:40:06 they'll have trouble with the reruns though - with more commercials, time in the series will pass slower and slower 21:40:06 I like asking questions right after someone tells me the answer. 21:42:58 hmm, series was a typo, I meant half-way through the season 21:43:14 I just forgot about seasons 2-8 for a while 21:43:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:44:00 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:12 I've also failed to find good information about what vacation auto responders can normally do... does everyone build their own script for that? 21:49:15 a sane one would also be explicitly designed not to cause a loop, but that's what we want 21:50:04 Okay, so I guess I'm trying to figure out how computation in Combientièm might work. 21:51:28 I do like the word whichth 21:52:09 I think storing Booleans is easy enough. 21:52:56 Just store either "t" or "f" in a command. Then, to branch, store the true branch in "t" and the false branch in "f". 21:53:20 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quotus 21:56:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:59:12 Then for numbers, I guess you could store any number of "o"s in a command, and then use it kinda like a Church numeral. 21:59:54 tswett: hm this might not be that different from how i made that emmental program 22:01:59 hm this _doesn't_ have a stack, does it? 22:02:10 It doesn't. 22:04:18 it has that compilation semantics for storing things in commands instead, which somehow corresponds to the emmental command ! which uses the stack. and i think this is the only thing that _needs_ a stack. 22:05:04 It's not obvious to me that Combientièm's interpretation–compilation dichotomy is actually useful. 22:06:34 It allows you to construct definitions without using L. Maybe there's no real problem with using L, though. 22:12:17 wait, i also use the stack to store the emulated underload stack. this might be harder to translate into combientièm... 22:13:26 it might seem simpler to do a queue with all this appending, maybe. 22:13:36 tswett: perhaps BCT would be easy? 22:13:56 I'm thinking a Minsky machine. 22:14:07 hm. 22:18:58 tswett: hm should L really be compilation mode? it seems redundant then. 22:19:09 or wait 22:19:21 it's needed to append things that don't append themselves, i gues 22:19:23 *+s 22:21:15 Yeah. 22:22:12 my underload interpreter in emmental sort of also had interpreter and compilation modes. and a printing mode. 22:22:22 *has 22:22:47 called them running and quoting. 22:23:23 Without the I–C dichotomy, the only commands you'd need are N and L. 22:24:12 You could set 3 to "ooo" by doing "N3LoLoLo". 22:24:52 To set c to a AND b, then you'd do, uh... 22:27:09 no dichotomy would make it closer to emmental 22:27:12 Nt[Nt[Nc[t]] Nf[Nc[f]] b] Nf[Nc[f]] a 22:27:22 Where [...] means ... with an L inserted before every character. 22:28:01 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:28:11 So the whole program is... 22:28:30 just like the quote function used for constructing emmental programs 22:28:54 (not a part of emmental proper, but you need it not to go crazy writing the programs) 22:29:16 -!- carado_ has joined. 22:29:27 NtLNLtLLLNLLLcLLLLLLLtLNLfLLLNLLLcLLLLLLLfLbNfLNLcLLLfa 22:30:09 Yeah, I think I should use the I–C dichotomy. 22:30:26 So now, to set c to a AND b, you do this: 22:31:05 tswett: are you french? 22:31:19 Arc_Koen: nope. 22:31:32 cause I've always imagined you as an american on a boat over the mississipi 22:31:53 Nt( Nt( Nc( t )LLLD )LD Nf( Nc( f)LLLD )LD b)D Nf( Nc( f )LD )D a 22:31:54 with a straw hat? 22:31:56 Where ( and ) don't mean anything. 22:31:58 are you from hexham? 22:32:21 definitily with a straw hat 22:32:24 So the program without the junk is NtNtNctLLLDLDNfNcfLLLDLDbDNfNcfLDDa. 22:32:39 So which side of the Mississippi is "over the Mississippi"? 22:32:50 the other side, duh 22:32:52 the other side, duh 22:33:01 Ah. 22:33:04 olsner: hi five 22:33:11 Whelp, I'm on this side of the Mississippi. 22:34:16 if you make another of yourself, you can be on the other side of the mississippi too 22:34:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:35:40 it's a boat, people 22:36:21 a boat to the other side 22:36:32 watch out for the guy with a cowl 22:44:35 dbelange, it can't, and I can't think of one 22:45:07 a positive number is a real number not on the form -x^2 for any real number x. hth. 22:45:29 (that was to the second question in the logs.) 22:55:26 Alternatively, one that is of the form 1/x^2 for some real number x. 22:55:39 hthth 22:56:09 oh right 22:56:24 you guys don't count zero as negative 22:56:34 or positive 22:58:40 nope 22:59:12 which btw was essentially the _first_ question in the logs. 22:59:40 Whelp, I'm on this side of the Mississippi. 22:59:50 is there a mississippi in australia then 22:59:56 well the first on that theme. dbelange made a whole bunch of rather basic math questions. 23:00:20 There's actually an entire United States of America in Australia. 23:00:21 since when is t... oh right. 23:00:53 tswett: there is? 23:00:56 Yup. 23:00:57 there are those islands in dubai that form a (crude) map of the world 23:01:05 i hear there's a USA in japan too 23:01:08 I wonder what they put at the fixed point 23:01:10 Called Austramerica. 23:02:02 if it isn't recursive at all then it's truly a waste of money 23:02:13 i'm imagining a map from centuries in the future, where the continent is named "Stray" 23:02:35 and there's a continent named Murrica 23:02:55 Fiora can you please explain oerjan's joke to me 23:03:11 i think future changes in language will be shaped more by written / typed forms than by verbal forms 23:03:21 words that are hard to type on QWERTY will slowly disappear 23:03:28 I wonder what the largest world map in the world is. 23:03:31 meanwhile I'll be speaking English with a Dvorak accent 23:03:36 That archipelago, I guess. 23:03:41 But it's not a very good world map. 23:03:44 i think it's too shitty -- yeah 23:03:57 Arc_Koen: just radical pronunciation becoming the official forms 23:03:58 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/09/26 figure 1 23:04:07 Typing? In the future? 23:04:16 Let's see. The circumference of the earth is about 40,000 meters. So... 23:04:17 oh, dvorak is a czech name, but august dvorak was just american 23:04:18 imo the earth itself is a good 1:1 spheral world map 23:04:24 oerjan: ooooh right 23:04:26 see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strine 23:04:33 no way, it makes greenland way too big 23:04:39 If you made a world map 200 meters wide, then it would contain a depiction of itself about 1 meter wide. 23:04:49 that's why it's dvorak and not dvořák 23:05:25 So I guess we have to do that. 23:05:36 Tři sta třicet tři stříbrných stříkaček stříkalo přes tři sta třicet tři stříbrných střech 23:05:44 when i become world dictator i'll make using dvorak legal only for those who can pronounce it properly in czech. just because. 23:06:26 Arc_Koen: I don't get it either :< 23:06:42 um, the "stray" joke (?) 23:06:45 apparently the czech ř is unique 23:07:02 err 23:07:04 Fiora: just radical pronunciation becoming the official forms 23:07:05 40000 km not m 23:07:08 (see I'm smart too) 23:07:13 nooodl: uhhh, right. 23:07:15 how do you catch a unique odepoint 23:07:30 wait why do you want me to explain it then @_@ 23:07:52 that's one hell of a world map! 23:07:57 Let's see. The circumference of the earth is about 40,000 meters. So... <-- UM... 23:08:01 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:08:06 oerjan: i know some people whose last name is dvorak can they use it 23:08:07 i dunno 40k sounds realistic 23:08:09 All right, the circumference of the earth is about 40,000,000 meters. So if you made a world map about 6000 meters wide, then it would contain a depiction of itself about 1 meter wide. 23:08:11 km 23:08:24 let me just jog over to where you live 23:08:26 August Dvorak was from Washington........................ 23:08:38 Fiora: because I was lying when I said I was smart! oerjan explained it to me when you didn't 23:08:38 shachaf: ok if they can prove a proper genealogy. 23:08:56 Wařington 23:08:59 oh 23:09:04 sorry 23:09:06 I missed that 23:09:14 Trivia: the length of a marathon is also about 40,000 meters. 23:09:15 does "descended from john c. dvorak" count 23:09:23 So the circumference of the earth is about 1,000 marathons. 23:10:01 "Dvorak and Dealey, along with Nellie Merrick and Gertrude Ford, wrote the book Typewriting Behavior, published in 1936. The book, currently not in print, is an in-depth report on the psychology and physiology of typing." how boring can you get 23:10:21 washington, washington, eight feet tall weighs a fucking ton 23:10:24 tswett: let's organize a giant relay marathon thing 23:10:44 shachaf: only if the name has been used in an unbroken line 23:10:45 What is the dryest circumference of the earth? 23:11:00 Bike: kickstarter to re-issue it and then mail a free copy to everyone who has evolved their own keyboard layout against a fitness function pulled out of their ass 23:11:25 donating 23:11:25 Bike: i want to read that as Gertrude Stein. 23:11:33 starting that kick 23:11:36 hm it's on g. books 23:11:51 tswett: what about running on a north-south cycle 23:12:10 antarctica -> america -> greenland -> europe -> something 23:12:17 my guess would be somewhere around the greenich meridian but that's uncreative 23:12:32 oh hey someone on usenet already asked 23:12:59 404'd. 23:13:29 oh here we go http://jidanni.org/geo/antipodes/hemispheres.html 23:14:00 you can at least chose a route that you're somewhat likely to survive (as opposed to anything involving antarctica and greenland) 23:14:39 olsner, as if anything involving an ocean is going to be survivable. 23:15:17 "Our crude program finds two wettest circles, skirting Africa, with 8% land, and one driest circle, through Antarctica, with 55% land." 23:15:34 This is definitely ~ going to work. 23:16:28 -!- carado_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:18:16 All right, so, the world map 6,000 meters wide. 23:18:32 skip it and just do the picture of the map in the map 23:18:37 That'd be on the order of... 40,000 square kilometers. Wow, what a surprise. 23:18:51 Mm, no. 23:18:55 40 square kilometers. 23:20:32 Which is about 10,000 acres. 23:21:08 fun! 23:21:20 Which you might be able to buy for about $5,000,000. 23:21:26 Anyone have $5,000,000 they feel like blowing? 23:22:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:25:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:26:40 -!- heroux has joined. 23:27:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:33:26 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:35:26 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:37:20 -!- heroux has joined. 23:38:16 * Sgeo hits everyone with a Spring 23:43:39 Spring spring MVC with XML configure-time configuration 23:44:02 I do think run-time configuration should be separate from normal run-time 23:59:00 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).