< 1362182525 967719 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial JOIN :#esoteric < 1362182662 849712 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1362182737 585079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, when you asked me how many interviews I had, were you counting telephone interviews? < 1362182748 646904 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you were, I did have one (before I got the upcoming one today) < 1362183219 930126 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362183672 495396 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1362184255 877451 :doesthiswork!~Adium@75.87.251.5 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362184579 855057 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362184704 785859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1362184711 392682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i thought i had a question < 1362184712 974211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess i don't < 1362184757 169808 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey kmc are you there? < 1362184766 740569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME TheColonial < 1362184769 607679 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THECOLONIAL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1362184770 76891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1362184778 850319 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello elliott :) < 1362184831 81601 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE TheColonial < 1362184833 842753 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThEcOlOnIaL: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) < 1362184835 817438 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :from me also < 1362184841 123131 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you quintopia < 1362184853 166675 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you come in a set with ThePostcolonial < 1362184854 174174 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we have a < 1362184855 76676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pats his question dissolving raygun
< 1362184857 853631 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ｗｅｌｃｏｍｅ TheColonial < 1362184859 748908 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ｗｅｌｃｏｍｅ: not found < 1362184862 39153 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1362184872 838784 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pretty sure there was an obnocious fullwidth one < 1362184876 850616 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike I've never been asked before, but I'll see if I can drum something up :) < 1362184882 240710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: there is < 1362184898 723688 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it ThePostColonial < 1362184901 202966 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't know < 1362184908 214163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thepostcolonial < 1362184911 622243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rwelcome TheColonial < 1362184913 185438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a really shitty band < 1362184914 120581 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​9TheColonial: 2Welcome 13to 6the 4international 7hub 8for 9esoteric 2programming 13language 6design 4and 7deployment! 8For 9more 2information, 13check 6out 4our 7wiki: 8http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. 9(For 2the 13other 6kind 4of 7esoterica, 8try 9#esoteric 2on 13irc.dal.net.) < 1362184935 777869 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but they're so sensitive to modern issues!! < 1362184944 373477 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can "colonial" refer to the colon? < 1362184945 208602 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stumbled on this channel in a rather esoteric way, how fitting. < 1362184947 644224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to the welcome bubble < 1362184967 110479 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: sometimes I sign in to places which chop usernames to 8chars.. I end up as "TheColon". < 1362185047 995795 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see someone has had a fair bit of fun with the welcome script. < 1362185065 656977 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is this place packed with PLT geeks? :) < 1362185110 763693 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you count as a PLT geek if you can say "homotopy type theory" without stuttering < 1362185143 534252 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I can, but I reckon that doesn't make me a PLT geek! < 1362185317 762099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can say it without stuttering, but i don't actually know what it means! < 1362185330 83622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought oerjan knew everything... < 1362185331 490547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows some other type theory though
< 1362185372 41668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my intuition knows everything, but it is very bad at communicating with my rational mind... < 1362185378 96096 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually stumbled on this channel after a Google search coughed this up http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/13.01.03 < 1362185449 829794 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric, where even your segfaults are turing-complete < 1362185455 746750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would still join this place after getting logged evidence of how terrible it is?? < 1362185472 315571 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha! < 1362185477 343408 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that says a lot about me doesn't it. < 1362185497 387249 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually interested in the discussion between kmc and shachaf < 1362185517 321573 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about security < 1362185568 137942 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do you guys all spend time working on crazy languages of your own? < 1362185583 218034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we spend roughly 0% of our time working < 1362185604 70312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're looking for sitting around and complaining about things though then this is your channel < 1362185630 205236 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just added to autojoin :D < 1362185683 796398 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1362185804 25689 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362186413 455292 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to shower. Back in a few. < 1362186451 473770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1362186452 592535 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362186693 497273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome TheColonial < 1362186695 711465 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TheColonial: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1362187158 503897 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think you have to at least know what it is. < 1362187191 14577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's type theory that uses homotopy < 1362187202 192492 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's HoTT < 1362187228 787779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to dolio's talk about it once. < 1362187237 99582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://comonad.com/reader/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/slides.pdf < 1362187574 220044 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you shachaf < 1362188594 905894 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362188941 941460 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have a second for a question? < 1362188959 671399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1362188960 877877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why me? < 1362188965 652922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ask the channel. :-) < 1362188970 931743 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you incriminated yourself :D < 1362188998 405160 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually interested in a discussion between you and kmc... found it here: http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/13.01.03 < 1362189114 707968 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap.. brb :) < 1362189215 619522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain that ask your question into the abyss of #esoteric and see what happens. < 1362189574 419906 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.192.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362189781 857548 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1362190036 775511 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362190072 772977 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1362190542 363330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist < 1362190550 833624 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo < 1362190575 844495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't see an update since Sgeo's `olist? < 1362190599 156172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1362190608 280819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you thanked him for, so presumably you've seen it? < 1362190623 104627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm just permanently 1 behind y'all :P < 1362190625 401349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or maybe that was another cache issue?) < 1362190638 931303 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo fix your cache < 1362190641 728265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after his `olist i found #874, which was new to me then < 1362190656 53220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it _was_ fixed, since new ones appeared... < 1362190657 729367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I saw his `olist I saw 875 < 1362190665 663675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh :( < 1362190708 510410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do what I do: Disable your cache. < 1362190802 300088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there is something weird about how giantitp.com does things < 1362190834 992518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i disable cache, won't everything else frequently visited load slowly < 1362191169 85798 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362191381 682301 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362191383 974836 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1362191410 426433 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy in that ARM paper said that all architectures have warts... so true < 1362191449 441706 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By "disable cache" I mean that I do everything in Incognito Mode in Chromium. < 1362191459 58239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all cache/cookies/etc. is lost between sessions. < 1362191503 744209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm maybe i could visit _just_ oots in privacy mode... < 1362191522 375184 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :context : I just learned that MIPS has an add opcode that causes an exception if the result overflows :O < 1362191540 904559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never used that mode before, afahr
< 1362191555 811410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What browser do you use? < 1362191557 12094 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: what, integer add? < 1362191559 931287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 8 < 1362191564 737522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1362191576 244485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how it goes. < 1362191585 754573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall seeing such an option < 1362191586 995866 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike : it's just as crazy in float but yeah integer add < 1362191629 830805 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, what the hell? why? < 1362191650 410245 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a non-exception causing add too tho < 1362191651 222413 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to trap overflows in a language without extra overhead ,I'm guessing? < 1362191662 392027 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in x86 you'd have to do a "jo" after every single add < 1362191668 360171 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : yeah but in practice there's no point < 1362191686 852374 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no language where that's a sensible thing to do < 1362191701 780517 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I thought lisp had to check for overflow on its adds? < 1362191730 940174 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds kinda nice for debugging too, though now there's that IOC thing < 1362191735 187862 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, overflowing ops are automatically promoted to bignums? < 1362191751 711072 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1362191754 892997 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. bike would know more < 1362191769 138788 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : doing a "jo" after every add is probably faster actually < 1362191772 922428 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CL, yeah < 1362191785 731091 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the jo is faster if it ever actually happens < 1362191793 143527 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slower if it doesn't? < 1362191793 292949 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah totally < 1362191807 679612 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's using leftover silicon < 1362191827 457677 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1362191873 691275 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally if you're actually in the kind of case where it would be useful, you're probably in some non-numerical code < 1362191892 768323 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is full of branches and memory loads < 1362191913 194871 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, dropping to bignums makes everything way slow < 1362191964 866934 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just like in floating point when you have INF or NAN < 1362191976 461536 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or denormals, those are the WORST < 1362191978 572134 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt CL is the only system that would want dropping to bignums to be easier, though < 1362191983 628598 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually like denormals? < 1362192030 554058 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid handling of denormals on x86 is a bad problem in sound handling code < 1362192032 309475 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one x87 guy < 1362192047 400427 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol kahan < 1362192101 819494 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: go on? < 1362192125 456042 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that thing where if you end up with denormals, it gets like 100x slower, right? < 1362192125 816286 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like HELLO YOUR PROCESSING IS SUDDENLY HUNDREADS OF TIMES SLOWER WHOOPS YOU MISSED THE SOUNDBUFFER DEADLINE OH WELL AT LEAST YOUR RESULT IS GONNA BE REALLY ACCURANTE NO? < 1362192132 38507 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can practically DDOS a system < 1362192135 192148 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by feeding it bad floats < 1362192135 595487 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rigt < 1362192147 78390 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAZ~ < 1362192154 227326 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds about as hilarious an attack as redos < 1362192154 376864 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's really easy to get denormals in sound < 1362192166 443357 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :send a sound into a reverb then send silence < 1362192193 625158 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay your values are now decaying towards the ones that will make your cpu blow up < 1362192220 769160 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for filters (except faster) < 1362192227 482623 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does DAZ solve that problem? < 1362192227 706189 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Broadwell will introduce some ISA extensions: * ADOX/ADCX for arbitrary precision integer operations" < 1362192250 777840 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah that looked neat < 1362192259 895093 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1362192283 212690 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah umm let's speed up addition?? < 1362192293 555787 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it's a flag problem < 1362192314 714092 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags registers kinda suck tbh < 1362192316 693785 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't intel already have fused multiply-add < 1362192322 973200 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag dependencies basically forced really latency-bottlenecked situations < 1362192330 224637 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: what would you prefer? < 1362192334 768726 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the instructino you want to do overwrites the flag you needed < 1362192345 344809 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: no flag registers < 1362192349 296374 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think the BMI2 instructions (the mulx, shlx, adcx, etc) are to avoid that < 1362192372 274862 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ARM lets you choose whether or not to set the flags register with certain instructions, which also avoids most of the problem? < 1362192377 751392 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok not on integers < 1362192382 369950 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a cmp+branch instruction for instance < 1362192393 545295 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: so like you just have je x,y,address instead? < 1362192401 521830 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362192410 610740 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flags here are for carry and stuff though :< < 1362192435 782543 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a very pretty way to multiply/add big numbers without flaggy-like things < 1362192447 364822 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the carry bits < 1362192464 294629 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well carry lookahead seems kind of insane anyway < 1362192479 197267 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: you can compare the result of the addition with the previous value (unsigned) < 1362192492 313523 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the result is smaller, there has been an overflow < 1362192508 618748 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could dump into double the word size, like MIPS in HI and LO < 1362192509 474842 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably going to be a lot of extra instructions though... < 1362192521 290564 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just compare HI with zero < 1362192526 969016 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: well, it's one extra jump compared to adc < 1362192534 722818 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez don't make it a jump < 1362192546 216932 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that jump would be completely unpredictable ^^; < 1362192556 424524 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: true, true < 1362192560 165137 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since carry bits are probably pretty random < 1362192581 374911 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think arm64 did it with a conditional increment/add of some kind < 1362192587 63777 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1362192600 691621 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think arm has the issue at all though, because it has flag-setting and non-flag-setting versions of instructions < 1362192605 916373 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't run into the same problem x86 has? < 1362192606 770906 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo we just need a processor without arithmetic < 1362192611 947674 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it's impossible to do right < 1362192625 686075 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: so i finally have an excuse to link you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_triggered_architecture < 1362192637 159263 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an OISC with nothing but moves < 1362192638 40042 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those still used at all? < 1362192657 575421 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never really thought it counted as oisc < 1362192671 534234 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add rl, al, bl < 1362192671 721826 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add rh, ah, bh < 1362192671 722017 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc_if_smaller rh, rl, al < 1362192700 836081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: an instruction can do anything < 1362192702 308882 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's one instruction longer than with adc < 1362192759 837224 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably on ARM it'd be something like, add, add, cmp, conditional inc? < 1362192761 768179 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: machine where the one instruction runs the accumulator register as a turing machine < 1362192762 744285 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you add a SIMD unit later on, that's usually a good place to do 64bit math < 1362192771 161307 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: arm has adc < 1362192781 991091 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! so just, adds + adc? < 1362192786 116065 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362192802 394224 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can do it in SIMD/NEON < 1362192812 851005 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does neon have 64-bit math like that? < 1362192813 360508 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you can do it on 2 ops at the same time < 1362192830 103358 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ok but you need to make the register width large enough to fit a UTM < 1362192834 345113 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: yeah, I'm not sure what use it has but yeah it has that < 1362192848 482256 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: 64 bits are enough for anybody. < 1362192853 950352 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I think NEON only has 64-bit execution units though so it might not be faster :< < 1362192854 137833 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This makes the proof of turing completeness easier) < 1362192858 897679 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like, at least a billion machines. < 1362192873 984299 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: actually it depends on the instructions < 1362192892 36153 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sagan machines < 1362192896 939917 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: on some instructions 128-bit isn't faster (floating point in particular) < 1362192911 508363 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember hearing even a15 still had 64-bit units but I might be totally wrong since I don't really know much about this < 1362192922 108666 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: but I'm pretty sure integer addition is 128bit so you can do it in "1 cycle" < 1362192933 241330 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have a 64-bit multiply it looks like :/ < 1362192948 92221 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha no multiply is faster if you use smaller ops < 1362192952 207642 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno for the a15 < 1362192957 946486 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, no 64-bit datatype < 1362192959 102433 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1362192968 449863 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the a8 you want to do everything in 16 bits < 1362192969 102305 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if FPGA can be used with through-hole? < 1362192981 514222 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: a multiplier that large would probably never be fast < 1362193021 838263 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ivy bridge 64x64->128 multiplier takes 3 cycles? < 1362193038 453532 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the timings for 32x32 multiplication would be kinda blah < 1362193045 969505 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: latency? < 1362193047 368893 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a processor with Knuth automata to make multiplication O(1)
< 1362193052 420528 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 1 cycle throughput < 1362193063 528801 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : that sounds way too low < 1362193083 145244 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : actually on recent processors, wide multiplications tend to have long latencies < 1362193097 729079 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how they got it so fast < 1362193114 491690 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the short pipelines and ultra short propagation delays < 1362193136 983545 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen 2 cycle latency addition yet but I bet they'll eventually do that < 1362193156 424189 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bulldozer is 6 cycle latency, 4 cycle inverse throughput for the same, I think, if I'm reading this right < 1362193160 918145 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok maybe not) < 1362193172 220128 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :64x64 multiply isn't very useful < 1362193192 619238 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's useful for arbitrary precision multiplies? < 1362193200 320026 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if FPGA programming software will run on a VM image which has CentOS? < 1362193213 628921 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. the K10 was 4/2, but the high 64 bits had an extra cycle of latency < 1362193235 125492 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.192.73 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1362193275 835810 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : I don't think arbitrary precision code is very useful < 1362193283 53270 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the topic though... :< < 1362193289 721780 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's what the adox/adcx were for or something < 1362193299 662901 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in cryptography and mathematics applications < 1362193321 582330 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that, 32bits solves like everything < 1362193331 150625 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except >4gb memory < 1362193352 752352 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiplication is asymptotically log(n) < 1362193368 583866 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :schonhage-strassen in hardware let's do it < 1362193381 569583 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to use about n^2 of circuit area or something < 1362193419 651801 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have them use more circuit area for 32bit float :D < 1362193492 720255 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :32bit float isn't very useful < 1362193497 681515 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1362193533 497851 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio processing these days is essentially a mountain of 32bit float dude < 1362193541 714724 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants more circuit area for 16-bit int? <.<
< 1362193554 454098 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use 16 bit int for < 1362193554 799557 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the pipeline is only there for feeding in 32bit floats < 1362193583 868015 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's like, a really good size for stuff where you don't need much range or precision < 1362193594 217136 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for 3d games, they're a mountain of floats < 1362193609 890774 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: why not just use 32bit registers for the 16bit ints? < 1362193624 114494 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant simd... < 1362193653 612932 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use 64bit floats for the 32bit floats < 1362193681 792440 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet : that's what the fpu does (except using 80 bits) < 1362193725 73602 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's only x87... < 1362193729 883441 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1362193758 242313 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bit packed int makes sense for SIMD units yeah < 1362193773 732059 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and video game audio in particular < 1362193803 530427 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i wonder what madbr's day job is < 1362193805 797804 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's super useful for image stuff, like for resizing an image with 8-bit pixels, 16-bit intermediates are sorta good enough < 1362193825 972161 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : right < 1362193829 784870 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike : :D < 1362193904 979666 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably something incredibly cool <.< < 1362193924 389799 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever i think of audio processing i just think of analog ones though, which is silly < 1362193961 158199 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like analog opamp based amplifiers? < 1362193972 773123 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362193981 734208 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's okay, everyone knows analog sounds better < 1362193992 777168 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because the only digital audio things i've fucked with consciously imitated synthesizer programming < 1362194013 103676 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet : ahahahahahah < 1362194031 532069 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know madbr i think jafet might be interested in your goat < 1362194147 434586 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah tbh the basic audio processing is essentially emulating a digital sampler < 1362194169 915049 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the perfect thing for generating audio off a CPU < 1362194208 871898 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362195450 90006 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362195723 502144 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: good evening < 1362196159 711185 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362196636 125462 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1362196771 24351 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1362197624 857120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult is it to port SDL to other computers? < 1362197739 606938 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1362197743 160091 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, how do you deal with it if some of the keys have symbols that are not available in Unicode? < 1362197743 310219 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even control keys that are not available in SDL? < 1362197746 875002 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362197854 134993 :TheColonial!~oj@unaffiliated/thecolonial QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1362199032 916031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1362199258 57727 :muqayil!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cwcfcmyuyqjhgaei NICK :upgrayedddd < 1362200597 264543 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362200605 173518 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1362200630 328303 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362202009 187363 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Chrome. When I google LLAP, I do not expect you to autocomplete it to llapingachos < 1362202028 441037 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst part is it didn't offer a link for what I originally typed < 1362202040 940488 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh pancakes < 1362202047 798392 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the autocompletion was in the address bar, not Google's decision after seeing the original < 1362202795 165998 :md_5!md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1362202853 194240 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to change the settings to fix all of those things? < 1362202885 135317 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362203390 984000 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1362203472 88128 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362204814 41687 :upgrayedddd!uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cwcfcmyuyqjhgaei NICK :abumirqaan < 1362205163 149103 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362205375 650650 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't i find goddamn mersenne twister test vectors < 1362205574 485982 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need a mersenne twister test vectors? < 1362205582 939094 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Wikipedia has some? < 1362205822 697293 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have implemented mersenne twister and want to make sure i've done so correctly < 1362205846 878045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have found some files on the website, now to verify that they implement the version of the algorithm that i implemented < 1362207407 238355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'd you implement it for < 1362207425 260318 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fuck that law of cryptography, man. < 1362207438 542759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which law? < 1362207452 344121 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that says you shouldn't implement crypto things yourself because you'll fuck it up. < 1362207455 364280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the law applies when you're trying to break other people's bad cryptography. < 1362207471 423432 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh is that what kmc's doing? < 1362207522 842598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1362207545 914620 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would fit with his usual predelictions. < 1362207561 921090 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or maybe he just wanted to Mersenne it up. Nuthin wrong with that. < 1362207584 746964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any situation wher eyou want to use a mersenne twister in cryptography, anyway? < 1362207844 986983 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1362207857 32985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of hate the mythology around crypto < 1362207870 186218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though hate people who do their own crypto and refuse to admit they don't know enough to more < 1362207895 578733 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't enough to more? < 1362208145 983133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course the lisper can't figure out where the parens go < 1362208152 899803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imagine I spat after saying "lisper". possibly before as well) < 1362208156 270626 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1362208178 865333 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously can't understand you though. < 1362208206 358804 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. "Though, hate people who do their own crypto (and refuse to admit they don't know enough to) more" < 1362208209 373137 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a genius. < 1362208668 622652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait Bike is a lisper? < 1362208685 204252 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, elliott already drowned me in his saliva, so now I'm a ghost. < 1362208693 830820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you < 1362208719 947105 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happens when your trachea is interrupted for long periods. Sorry? < 1362209020 806772 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362209681 938957 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362209795 757961 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1362209864 963995 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1362210212 729570 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362211548 643056 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362211548 834004 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 QUIT :Changing host < 1362211548 834348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1362211749 267191 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362211755 123516 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1362213089 535554 :fftw!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua NICK :Euphemism < 1362213353 765929 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362213616 511381 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the resonant frequency of a magic spell to make anti-magic field in Dungeons&Dragons game? < 1362213653 885893 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :11.975 MHz < 1362213662 98669 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i'm doing the puzzles where you're told to implement bad crypto and then break it < 1362213671 831172 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1362213684 494004 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to do them, email sean@matasano.com < 1362213699 124578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not, like, a web page about it or anything < 1362213711 467323 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you email him and he gives you some crypto puzzles < 1362213718 383974 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i saw earlier. < 1362213766 631653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does everyone get the same ones < 1362213778 775227 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL that you can reconstruct the internal state of a mersenne twister from 634 consecutive outputs < 1362213786 853526 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the last puzzle, elliott. < 1362213790 624366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus predict every output it's going to give after that < 1362213794 338316 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think so, don't really know < 1362213820 713998 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anything you can do with nonconsecutive (if you don't know how many times it fired between your samples)? < 1362213851 997442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, I'd heard that before. < 1362213854 326004 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can guess how many times < 1362213865 460004 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's because it's not a secure PRNG, right? < 1362213865 802377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably are fancy things you can do as well < 1362213867 949588 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know them < 1362213870 374965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should finish the last one of this set...
< 1362213879 416389 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: yeah it doesn't have a great distribution either iirc < 1362213880 648899 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: i would put the causality the other direction but yes < 1362213897 544865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the design goal had been to make it a secure PRNG, then it wouldn't have this property. < 1362213911 91171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Causality is a lie anyway. < 1362213932 298850 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if then -> causality, nice < 1362213935 502155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know things about modal logic? < 1362213948 478905 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the authors are quite clear on the fact that it shouldn't be used for crypto as-is < 1362213951 687677 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people do it < 1362213962 148043 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez, really? < 1362213969 499761 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, people use rand() for crypto and don't know or care what algo it is, and it's often MT < 1362213970 150671 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there simpler secure PRNGs? < 1362213980 639514 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :< < 1362213985 54676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rand() is the best RNG. < 1362213985 314160 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of one of knuth's exercises < 1362213985 636361 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense, just blindly using rand() < 1362214002 562495 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was just "look up how your installation's supposed CSPRNG and be horrified" < 1362214005 565191 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrks* < 1362214041 718377 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: I am aware that modal logic exists. < 1362214042 291635 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be /dev/urandom? < 1362214067 706151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i know a small bit about linear temporal logic < 1362214086 465830 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to a talk about model-checking once! < 1362214088 207923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, twice. < 1362214116 914459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned a little bit about LTL and that other one. < 1362214117 818710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTL? < 1362214130 822307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not CTL*. < 1362214310 884122 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362214607 700077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's CTL for < 1362215068 419808 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what security properties exactly would be meant by "secure PRNG" < 1362215086 949100 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it would be the same thing as a stream cipher < 1362215129 270442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to sleep though, ttyl all < 1362215144 324246 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographically_secure_pseudorandom_number_generator ? < 1362215179 832586 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about "can't use it as part of an attack" as a property :) < 1362215277 724349 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just use an lcg. live fast die hard < 1362215318 141299 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lcg_3d.gif ~ < 1362215548 548722 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RANDU "It is widely considered to be one of the most ill-conceived random number generators designed. " < 1362215572 77327 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :knuth's intro in taocp was funny < 1362215587 821148 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he started off with a generator that consisted of him throwing arbitrarily picked operations together, as an undergrad < 1362215590 823542 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that's random right" < 1362215686 86179 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1362215718 857647 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that subtlety that "rand()%1000" is not actually an unbiased way to pick a number in [0,1000) < 1362215738 610149 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362215743 663174 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We guarantee that each number is random individually, but we don't guarantee that more than one of them is random." < 1362215768 232636 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora, well, clearly you should rejigger your application to make that 1024! < 1362215791 8191 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1362215818 707280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike's solution sounds good to me. < 1362215825 293188 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day I was using rand() to do a memory timing benchmark thing (like, relaly simple, just randomly accessing elements in a giant array and timing each one) < 1362215828 470719 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just alter rand_max to be a power of 1000 < 1362215832 353643 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so easy < 1362215840 806702 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative: Generate a random number < 1000000, and then take that % 1000 < 1362215843 964578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term is "monoidal" < 1362215856 63436 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran it on the hardware I was testing and it looked right, but then I ran it on my computer and it didn't seem to ever hit RAM < 1362215859 339808 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then realized < 1362215871 680610 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the thing I was testing, RAND_MAX was INT_MAX or so < 1362215875 861208 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on my computer it was 65535 >.> < 1362215885 824139 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1362215888 116449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: How do you talk about unions categorically? < 1362215917 655807 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :union is a morphism on Set, I suppose? < 1362215956 391941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morphism? < 1362215993 599844 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanomachines? < 1362215996 306155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you talk about cartesian products, you say that for any two objects A and B there's an object AxB such that blah blah. < 1362216043 479733 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that categorical? < 1362216055 68036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, the blah blah? < 1362216060 237626 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty standard, in that i can fill in the "blah blah" < 1362216062 474199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of CT sounds that way. < 1362216072 522180 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was category theory i wouldn't understand it, you see. < 1362216105 989866 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they have certain properties such as associativity. < 1362216117 518911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the definition looks like this: < 1362216140 195124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thefirstscience.org/images/Figure%20B4%20Arrow%20Theoreci%20Represnation%20of%20Product.png < 1362216150 919337 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we're talkin'. < 1362216164 154657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular the diagram on the right. < 1362216202 87744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given two sets, A and B, you have a product (AxB,pi_1 : AxB -> A,pi_2 : AxB -> B) < 1362216214 198902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. the object, and an arrow from the object to each of A and B < 1362216217 562450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far so good? < 1362216220 862635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Arrow means function.) < 1362216222 500995 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1362216255 242260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of things that behave that way, though. < 1362216255 836167 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a pedagogy thing, is that why you're doing this < 1362216268 985620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to be pedagogued? < 1362216279 636939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: shachaf just asks people questions and then fills in all the details until they know as much as him, at which point they are obligated to figure out the answer. < 1362216287 32226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun learning about category theory < 1362216290 663333 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i do, i'd jst appreciate some warning, like elliott just gave. < 1362216303 263726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, you do it too! < 1362216305 525114 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, coproduct, generalized abstract nonsense as they say. < 1362216307 579223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned about all this nonsense because of you. < 1362216318 806496 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you call the pies projections. < 1362216353 461494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Bike is optimally qualified here. < 1362216357 294405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually what you do is ask a question and then keep bugging me about it until I know all the details. < 1362216368 637072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my approach is more effective I think < 1362216370 100204 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm such a troglodyte I think of this in such horrible ways as tagged unions. < 1362216375 401471 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am doomed. < 1362216387 568893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Nothing wrong with that? < 1362216397 972705 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :P. sure everything I think is wrong. < 1362216413 357101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think of monoids? < 1362216432 969937 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're cool. < 1362216456 109129 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(psst the correct answer is easy.) < 1362216462 956045 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1362216485 796649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: What do you think of monoids? < 1362216501 877313 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already asked that. < 1362216525 640885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but now you know the answer. < 1362216543 539595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take it as "Bike doesn't want to learn about products". < 1362216550 979528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora wnats to learn about products? < 1362216643 732423 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just, it's time I should be sleeping, I'm supposed to be reading a paper about throwing things, and then suddenly question phrased in such a way that I can't tell if I'm supposed to actually explain it to someone who doesn't know. < 1362216659 816888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I actually have no idea. < 1362216679 103999 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About unions? I was guessing that they're not that useful to category theory really < 1362216746 40634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking maybe not but surely there's a way to talk about them somehow? < 1362216750 587836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe as pullbacks? < 1362216813 187169 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I guessed you wanted to talk about set unions in a category theory way, rather than try to generalize set unions appropriately as that didn't seem possible < 1362216930 523069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Oh, is it just equalizers and coequalizers or something? < 1362216946 765279 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1362216965 439533 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did somebody say category theory < 1362217016 237044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can go back to sleep < 1362217026 402201 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1362217036 78339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: So how do you talk about unions in a categorical way? < 1362217110 451258 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about the colimit of some functor omega->Set????????? < 1362217139 666160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :omega? < 1362217139 816216 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess thats a union of infinite inclusions tho hm < 1362217148 273339 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you know the ordinal number!!!! < 1362217162 175334 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we pretend it's a category by writing out all the smaller ordinals and connecting them with arrows < 1362217170 457457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1362217378 723249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it is just a coëqualizer. < 1362217441 898246 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfff maybe < 1362217480 854714 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember how i said i don't know ct yet!!!! < 1362217481 875189 :xandgate!~paul@pD952079D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1362217517 328241 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: That was ages ago. < 1362217523 292350 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's looking increasingly less likely that category theory is a thing that is knowable < 1362217535 496334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said you would read Mac Lane? < 1362217540 348304 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to ncatlab you want a "coherent category", whatever that is < 1362217546 172033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Also what's with all the question marks and exclamation marks and things? < 1362217555 27524 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unreachable platonic ideal of unreachable platonic ideals < 1362217567 110758 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im slowly reading mac lane whenever im waiting for things to happen < 1362217576 247592 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which things < 1362217577 192426 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im hoping it seeps in before i forget it < 1362217595 782958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: A terminal object in the category of platonic ideals? < 1362217598 539333 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i learned all about colimits and limits < 1362217601 737623 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unions of completely arbitrary sets make sense only in material set theory, where their existence is guaranteed by the axiom of union. In structural set theory, unions of arbitrary sets can generally be replaced by disjoint unions." yeah that would make sense < 1362217602 34846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe in the category of cones or something. < 1362217617 468418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Those are pretty great, right? < 1362217623 627074 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, < 1362217643 683086 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad structuralist set theory has nothing to do with post-structuralism < 1362217659 486802 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only we had a lacan for category theory < 1362217688 696155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1362217730 149950 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway unions are dumb and i'll concern myself no further with them < 1362217740 395282 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See. < 1362217747 688593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pullback of A -> AunionB <- B is AintersectB? < 1362217758 11299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the obvious functions. < 1362217773 532874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the pushout of A <- AintersectB -> B is AunionB? < 1362217953 85514 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: ockeghem < 1362217994 768524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Categories are the dumb one. < 1362217996 733585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unions are good. < 1362218036 186335 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.when did you go off the deep end < 1362218047 670238 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :“metaphorically speaking„ < 1362218089 756031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Which end is the deep one? < 1362218103 341291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Category theory is so pointless even mathematicians don't like it. < 1362218132 266060 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes!! < 1362218139 739163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know the wiles proof of FLT involvted categories???? i learned this yeterday on wikipedaije < 1362218153 609863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Involuted categories? That soudns scary. < 1362218213 851381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Categories: Galois theoryFermat's last theorem < 1362218222 190312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good categories < 1362218397 921762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i read _master and margarita_ < 1362218472 435514 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats's that < 1362218494 716473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b∞k < 1362218513 220629 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1362218520 774842 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b∞ks are c∞l < 1362218525 666598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe you heard of it < 1362218600 499196 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear it's a fantastic farce mysticism romance satire < 1362218636 679012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're russian right < 1362218663 428045 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿ < 1362218692 24193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for the purpose of this channel < 1362218700 15100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "really" < 1362218716 21383 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿¿¿ < 1362218761 344633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying you aren't even russian……… < 1362218816 142437 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :????????????????‽ < 1362218844 390306 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :p.s. what was that ctcp about < 1362218952 198820 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. what's this russian stuff about. why would i be russian. < 1362218961 52087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you would know about this book < 1362219024 990243 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1362219088 788160 :xandgate!~paul@pD952079D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART :#esoteric < 1362219099 984988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lots of people are russian? < 1362219115 282234 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :millions < 1362219138 164990 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hear < 1362219146 833360 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i also hear lots of people aren't russian < 1362219151 767453 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you believe it < 1362219170 350293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really… < 1362219193 62584 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1362219260 243791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you considered just becoming russian < 1362219387 325179 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's so simple < 1362219746 875822 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362219990 759303 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://code.google.com/p/zopfli/ < 1362220020 882596 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the types in C to have default signed/unsigned, and I think it would be better that if it is not specified, that each operation might be signed or unsigned depending on the computer and on the optimization. < 1362220028 937484 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How hard can it be to type umlauts. < 1362220080 111892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on your computer. < 1362220601 93369 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362221045 889803 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1362221145 218636 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362221145 368044 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362221145 368134 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362221797 692101 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-67-248-121-45.nycap.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362221838 29751 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362221841 394204 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-67-248-121-45.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362223727 772441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362224470 207401 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362224470 842694 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362224631 188270 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1362224731 398088 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1362225032 865221 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362225484 626628 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1362226686 794563 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.34.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362226992 948172 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeek < 1362227036 760777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hug nooga < 1362227037 271023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug < 1362227059 546744 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Forbidden < 1362227071 949980 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::C < 1362227079 460479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're not allowed to receive hugs. < 1362227082 457276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1362227082 711735 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nooga < 1362227088 189690 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga hate OS X. NOOGA SMASH. < 1362227094 556246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?hh nooga < 1362227097 11811 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :noohga hahte OhS X. NOOhGA SMAhSH. < 1362227099 865549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/\?* < 1362227101 827230 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z | sed "s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; < 1362227106 180556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1362227106 905844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/\?* < 1362227109 320011 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/? \ bin/?h \ bin/?hh < 1362227114 645986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's ?r ?! < 1362227156 501599 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn nooga hate OS X. NOOGA SMASH. Hug not allowed. < 1362227171 300736 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1362227179 447349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?h shachaf < 1362227182 852489 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachahf sprø sohm selleri and cosplayhs Nepeta Leijohn ohn weekends. < 1362227197 338278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just on weekends? < 1362227323 275205 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :F < 1362227325 796804 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently sprø som selleri is a book about a psychologist making jokes (or whatever tuller means): http://www.pax.no/index.php?ID=Bok&counter=1103 < 1362227357 100562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan what is sprø som selleri < 1362227357 726246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1362227363 73971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan (THX) < 1362227363 646304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1362227388 650171 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :crunchy like celery < 1362227497 319517 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate celery < 1362227502 701509 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate OS X < 1362227527 463144 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, part of the book deals with archaic psychiatric treatments, like veal blood transfusions and scabies inplantation < 1362227531 734013 :Euphemism!~fastest@la-pinta.la.net.ua NICK :fftw < 1362227621 308306 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and centrifugueing or however you say that (centrifusion?) < 1362227865 857743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anomaly: Uncaught exception Invalid_argument("List.combine"). Please report. < 1362227867 240360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sigh
< 1362228022 964643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that coq < 1362228079 349135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362228122 521573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: Found a matching with no clauses on a term unknown to have an empty < 1362228123 15481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inductive type. < 1362228127 734533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq's grammar is weird < 1362228308 271775 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362231334 249391 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1362231401 998181 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1362231625 586781 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362232053 46620 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362232199 460572 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362232338 901926 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362232439 495149 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1362232440 666336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In fact, when compared to Garamond, which wasn�t originally designed for the screen, Comic Sans fares quite well in terms of readability." < 1362232446 751691 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without anti-aliasing) < 1362232450 856728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/ < 1362232500 423881 :cantcode2!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Quit: ragequit < 1362232992 403347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Without ant-aliasing, fonts look jagged � as if they were made of LEGOS�." < 1362232995 766055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i detest this man < 1362233741 61271 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just silly, you can do anti-aliasing with legos < 1362234138 742031 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362234644 99149 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362235037 891650 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to be AFK most of the day. < 1362235042 729358 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heading to a friend's house. < 1362235661 335121 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, have a Worlds mirror http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2478/67591116.png < 1362235681 348764 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it surreally horrifying < 1362235691 388864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1362235699 169835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm inclined to disagree < 1362235716 170125 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Phantom_Hoover is scared of mirrors. < 1362235736 874959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm scared of giant clinical body modification panels < 1362235786 659499 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This... reminds me of Second Life < 1362235799 84074 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second Life doesn't have mirrors :( < 1362235799 926405 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let me guess < 1362235806 29462 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Club" at the bottom right is for wild deviant sex < 1362235815 104891 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Animal House" is also for that, except it's furries < 1362235829 658078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tutor is big into second life < 1362235831 936808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird < 1362235850 354841 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Worlds mirrors are portals that have horizonal flipped. < 1362235854 386265 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those things are always weird < 1362235867 825157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worlds has portals. This is an awesome thing. < 1362235895 81391 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which I was supposed to do portal rendering in webgl < 1362235917 729524 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I got bored when I couldn't find any good scenes to try it on. You sort of need an interesting scene with enough details and texturing to make it look interesting. < 1362235921 113303 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I suck at 3D modeling badly. < 1362235924 745730 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a thin transparent wall in front to prevent people from accidentally walking into the mirror and ending up upside-down. < 1362235933 787972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you may now resume being terrified of Worlds mirrors. < 1362235982 35174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that irks me: i'm not sure all those impossible geometries you can build with portals are actually non-euclidean like everyone says < 1362236094 86079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since their curvature is still everywhere zero < 1362236124 185200 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a thing with a better body modification panel: http://25.media.tumblr.com/ea771a7c7328a138ded50bdca0fadd89/tumblr_miwphxRb4L1ruytnho1_1280.png < 1362236134 112157 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.192.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362236141 218197 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you define euclidean geometry again < 1362236152 665603 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry#Axioms anything that satisfies these? < 1362236183 389136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think so < 1362236195 355030 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing that's on the wall that you can partially see in the mirror reads < 1362236203 8449 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Gallery of Metamorphics" < 1362236306 332493 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://virkkunen.net/b/portals.png well here's a thing that doesn't satisfy the "parallel postulate" < 1362236313 606739 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in 2D) < 1362236329 265714 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those two black lines should meet each other because they're not parallel, yet they never do due to those two portals. < 1362236335 431138 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite lines, thatis < 1362236441 613533 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're in a 3d world and can see yourself because of portals, is the world still possibly Euclidean, or would it violate a postulate < 1362236468 445498 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a maze like that below Animal House < 1362236474 78934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-> How do you define euclidean geometry again < 1362236474 265834 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry#Axioms anything that satisfies these? < 1362236488 150646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it gets more complicated once you start working with arbitrary spaces < 1362236499 210764 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you go into a portal from the back? And then emerge from the back of the other portal? < 1362236519 471746 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well the first axiom is pretty solid in any dimension right? < 1362236527 264856 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ability to draw a straight line from any point to any point < 1362236533 974758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, the only thing you ever really care about is the parallel postulate < 1362236544 480678 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, no, although you can have back-to-back portals that work like that, I think < 1362236591 156402 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways we'd have to define what happens when an infinite ray hits the back of a portal then < 1362236606 808646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's also more complicated notions of 'locally euclidean' spaces and such < 1362236636 36722 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it goes through and emerges from the back of the other portal, or magically "stops" there, in both cases you can violate the first axiom < 1362236642 203067 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the ability to draw a straight line between two points < 1362236662 342749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and essentially in that diagram you drew, at almost all points you can take a set around them where geometry is euclidean < 1362236707 890951 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well you didn't say locally euclidean < 1362236731 588382 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we just take any subspace that doesn't include the portals then obviously it's euclidean because that's how we defined (assumed?) it to be when not dealing with portals < 1362236744 895551 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, lines that enter the back of a portal leave at the same portal, they ignore the portal < 1362236749 129081 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portals in Worlds are one-sided < 1362236752 595053 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They go through it? < 1362236765 942234 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1362236769 510076 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As though it wasn't there < 1362236885 333030 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://virkkunen.net/b/portals2.png here < 1362236892 86778 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The red arrow is you < 1362236903 27692 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see your back via the portals < 1362236909 149457 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now try to draw a straight line from A to B < 1362236947 213288 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can draw a line from B to A but not A to B.... how does that even make sense. < 1362236966 286459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think directionaless of portals confuses the lack of direction of lines < 1362237004 427934 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure Euclid would be turning in his grave if we told him that a space where A to B is not the same as B to A is Euclidean < 1362237023 327754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i think essentially what you have done is made it stop being a metric space < 1362237033 604977 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course you can construct something that's Euclidean enough even with portals < 1362237035 554522 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://virkkunen.net/b/portals3.png < 1362237047 83078 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. The most useless portal ever. < 1362237049 438812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hopelessly ruins the obvious topology < 1362237071 529013 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer for all above: I don't know math terminology properly < 1362237146 642606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a metric space is just one with a sufficiently sensible notion of distance between two points < 1362237146 806461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think in most Worlds rooms that portals are set against walls < 1362237164 360597 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the conditions of sensibility is that d(a,b) = d(b,a) < 1362237224 228011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that maze, a one-way hallway wouldn't be made with the one-directionality of portals < 1362237243 708910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd hook up portal A in room A to portal B in room B, but portal B in room B would not be hooked up to portal A < 1362237300 323374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you see if you walk through a portal backwards < 1362237319 921512 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You go to where that portal is hooked up to < 1362237324 379707 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just walking backwards into it < 1362237354 56049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you should try one of the spy rooms in Worlds < 1362237372 125436 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're worlds that are like the normal worlds, except a spy room where you can see people and they can't see you < 1362237385 705683 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walk into the regular area and you won't be able to get back into the spy room < 1362237459 765969 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without teleporting back in, I mean) < 1362237470 267227 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should see if Worlds works on WINE < 1362237478 684715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not today. I have a friend to visit. < 1362238276 518792 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,23,467,9355 < 1362238277 434046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sequence not found. < 1362238606 876751 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1362243076 902380 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362243090 794772 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362243893 860068 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362244581 45537 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362244709 743742 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362244786 78733 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362246934 369529 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362247392 202126 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1362247909 586697 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1362247920 777758 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here does verilog? < 1362248151 884714 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1362248152 75168 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-160.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1362248152 75326 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362249778 469581 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done some vhdl, not verilog though < 1362249800 14211 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I dont remember much atm :D < 1362249905 271620 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very high drug lover < 1362249945 806987 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know about verilog / vhdl is the extreme level of copy-pasta < 1362249950 90568 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1362249972 714895 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362249980 175080 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing around with a cpu design < 1362250038 285124 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a tiny bit of verilog but that was the class I dropped < 1362250058 277652 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1362250097 612131 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to do something where a C compiler could vectorize more or less automatically < 1362250107 99630 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1362250130 498209 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1362250318 501357 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the concept I have is what I'd call "staggered SIMD" < 1362250340 588220 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somewhere between standard SIMD, superscalar and out of order... < 1362250382 468884 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially instead of doing every SIMD slice operation on the same cycle, the first slice is done on cycle 1, second slice on cycle 2, etc... < 1362250395 425100 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can do stuff like real SIMD memory loads < 1362250417 466084 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you do the load in unit 1 on first cycle, unit 2 on second cycle, etc...) < 1362250431 238985 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are special feedback registers < 1362250435 165290 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that like, the same thing as a pipelined CPU? < 1362250456 101019 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's pipelining different iterations of the same routine < 1362250477 905898 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit 1 is running iteration 1, unit 2 is running iteration 2... < 1362250481 983994 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought CPUs already do that... < 1362250504 734605 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually it's like you're going though your loop 4 or 8 times at the same time < 1362250516 244796 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ARM instruction "load multiple" loads a bunch of registers (2 per cycle) from memory, and every cycle, another 2 are available for use < 1362250520 545369 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1362250522 198290 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362250538 586608 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: yeah that's an example < 1362250606 252943 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to space your memory load instructions tho < 1362250607 377005 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1362250622 654791 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that does anything except save code size though...? < 1362250626 181945 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you're running 5 units at the same time < 1362250631 311609 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to do < 1362250639 156677 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[mem op] [alu] [alu] [alu] [alu] [mem op] [alu] [alu] [alu] [alu] [mem op] [alu] [alu] [alu] [alu] ... < 1362250696 63733 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you already have to do that on in-order CPUs with multi-issue... < 1362250714 701313 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do that yeah but it's not the same kind of multi-issue < 1362250739 279312 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't understand the idea then, sorry
< 1362250746 67717 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOO cpus fill the pipelines with different alu ops that are near by < 1362250756 343166 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1362250765 146285 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a routine that's < 1362250776 128492 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :load r1, r8 < 1362250785 941510 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r1, #14 < 1362250798 77308 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant non-OOE things < 1362250799 298341 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shr r1, #2 < 1362250809 980117 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r1, #1 < 1362250813 300757 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the atom has dual-issue but no OOE, so you have to write instructions in a way that they can pair < 1362250817 119420 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :store r1, r8 < 1362250841 177028 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :add r8, #4 < 1362250869 287412 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jge r8, r9, loopend < 1362250872 678492 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :j loop < 1362250884 746920 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're using 4 units < 1362250906 292037 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :first cycle, units 2..4 are doing nops < 1362250917 601072 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :first unit does load r1, r8 < 1362250928 918470 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that looks just like a normal pipelined CPU... I'm confused < 1362250934 66854 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, second cycle < 1362250935 247158 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without OOE) < 1362250944 104105 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rirst unit does add r1, #14 < 1362250950 356201 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected < 1362250958 249498 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :second unit does load r1, r8 < 1362250972 927548 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but load r1, r8 has already been done... < 1362250987 296871 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but they're different copies of r1, r8 < 1362251008 541399 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, this is a special case in which you have a bunch of loop iterations which are completely independent? < 1362251009 182989 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially the second unit is already starting the second iteration of the loop < 1362251021 231269 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think OOE already does that < 1362251036 976600 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, modern CPUs with big reorder buffers can be running 15 iterations of a loop at a time < 1362251046 927364 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOE doesn't do that, it reorders nearby instructions < 1362251055 39465 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... that's... not quite what it does... < 1362251074 299437 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps dispatching instructions until one of the queues fills, preventing it from doing so, I think < 1362251081 246063 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, on a p2, eventually it's running multiple iterations at the same time yes < 1362251082 372950 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1362251089 483413 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does it locally really < 1362251091 106417 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like in one bit of code I wrote I have a loop that does two loads, an average, and a store < 1362251102 624878 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this loop manages to fill the entire load queue, so that's where it stops issuing < 1362251104 63617 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if you had a 300 instruction routine < 1362251111 179709 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :your iterations wouldn't overlap < 1362251156 92170 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it had 300 instructions it could probably do something else in those 300 instructions... < 1362251161 768301 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1362251175 711159 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if the iterations are independent, you can just write the code a bit differently to let OOE do things better? :< < 1362251183 48179 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, unrolling < 1362251196 394817 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrolling isn't very beneficial in OOO < 1362251218 580173 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps if the loop is super gigantic and has a long dependency chain and the OOE buffer doesn't reach into the next iteration, I think? < 1362251219 483292 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMD (SSE, MMX, NEON, Altivec) kinda helps < 1362251225 459488 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like your 300 example... < 1362251241 148751 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your routine has to be very paralellizable and most of the time the compiler can't guess I think < 1362251257 20161 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo write the simd yourself silly :P < 1362251270 340654 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on p2 unrolling only saves like the cmp and jmp < 1362251289 871686 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... but unrolling is useful if it lets the execution unit get more parallelism... < 1362251299 428936 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362251311 356951 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really only worth it if your loop is really small < 1362251317 720939 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 8 instructions or less < 1362251336 355257 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's like 8 instructions or less OOE can look ahead to the next iteration just fine o_O < 1362251341 200423 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't need to unroll... < 1362251384 466920 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's like the other way around < 1362251399 928194 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the 300 example you're less likely to get dependency chains < 1362251430 847103 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.... you just said the iterations were independent... < 1362251433 252961 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lost
< 1362251465 948384 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you'll have result to result dependency chains within the routine but in fact both the compiler and the CPU can analyze that stuff and reorder everything if there aren't too many memory accesses < 1362251514 545222 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a 8 instruction loop your writes and reads will be very close together and it will probably be hard to "prove" that the reads don't depend on the writes < 1362251541 523371 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you didn't overlap the read and write buffer addresses on purpose < 1362251564 320029 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu does speculative loads and stores though < 1362251571 844810 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it turns out that things did overlap it will re-issue them < 1362251593 610574 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see how they do that :D < 1362251594 875602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all far too practical < 1362251601 124180 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it's freakishly complex < 1362251614 748406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :half an hour of relatively on-topic discussion and nobody's mentioned turing even once < 1362251615 14524 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the best way to bring a C program to a screaming halt < 1362251629 415058 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn off the computer < 1362251631 10003 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do it just by issuing them in advance and then going and redoing it if they were wrong XD < 1362251642 258686 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom : that's what you're trying to avoid < 1362251655 875757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing?? < 1362251660 375090 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing is when your result influence each other tightly and you can do everything < 1362251665 527534 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I know, like, hardware details but < 1362251685 612699 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these machines are only pushdown automata, Phantom_Hoover `-` < 1362251687 420844 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it breaks all optimizations since you can't reorder everything and everything has effects on everything else :D < 1362251726 491029 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumps and memory accesses are hell < 1362251752 246868 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay the benchmark worked < 1362251753 56338 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : for( int i = 0; i < 128; i++ ) < 1362251753 919606 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : sum += i * i * i * i * i * i; < 1362251771 931458 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this loop takes 770 cycles on my machine, so it's doing 1 multiply every cycle < 1362251775 53050 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they prevent the C++ optimizer from doing its job < 1362251777 435611 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each iteration is completely latency bound < 1362251786 949716 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to be looking ahead at least 6 iterations in order to get that. < 1362251798 942609 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, at least 3 iterations, since imul is latency 3 < 1362251828 781814 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have memory loads inside the loop so the compiler can deal with it :D < 1362251838 356085 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's test that then :3 < 1362251860 417515 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can save a mul actually < 1362251879 944060 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(int i=0; i<128; i++) < 1362251880 586709 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1362251887 906131 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp = i*i; < 1362251893 328812 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum += i*i*i; < 1362251893 977112 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1362251907 617639 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I wasn't trying to optimize it XD < 1362251923 941664 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think gcc can do that optim but not other compilers actually < 1362251929 149905 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: er don't you need to multiply by temp < 1362251930 291237 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(automatically) < 1362251945 422257 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: errr, yeah, sorry there < 1362251948 47061 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gcc does a chain of 5 imuls < 1362251948 417935 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh yeah, power decomposition < 1362251953 987229 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it's an older one < 1362251967 522251 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personal favorite possibly-NP-complete-but-who-knows problem < 1362251968 15646 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okies! so, second test: < 1362251970 11415 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : for( int i = 0; i < 128; i++ ) < 1362251970 160991 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1362251970 161161 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : int in = input[i]; < 1362251970 161269 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : output[i] = in*in*in*in*in*in; < 1362251972 40160 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1362251977 309683 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this takes 754 cycles. < 1362251994 14134 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was totally latency bound it'd take at least 5*3*128 cycles. < 1362252016 561540 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ int i2 = i*i; int i4 = i2*i2; sum += i4*i2; } < 1362252021 349701 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. lemme try it with random memory accesses >:3 < 1362252062 233981 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: quick what's the optimal chain for i^15 < 1362252062 546076 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora : I think it's because the compiler can guess that input and output don't alias yes < 1362252102 652716 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler doesn't unroll the loop though... < 1362252117 257194 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiora: might not be worth it < 1362252119 169738 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the compiler can't like, tell the cpu that they don't alias < 1362252123 756322 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu has to figure it out on its own... < 1362252142 674807 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so speculative loads actually work? :D < 1362252162 96592 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik ARMs don't have speculative loads < 1362252168 125847 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the OOO ones < 1362252180 221437 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, even better.... < 1362252185 63840 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : for( int i = 0; i < 128; i++ ) < 1362252185 300973 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : { < 1362252185 450410 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : int off1 = randnums[i]; < 1362252185 450504 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : int off2 = randnums[i+128]; < 1362252185 450548 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : int in = input[off1]; < 1362252187 655217 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : input[off2] = in*in*in*in*in*in; < 1362252190 60365 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1362252192 559603 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this takes 782 cycles XD < 1362252201 930552 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(randums[] is an array of random numbers between 0 and 128) < 1362252235 517885 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they really missed an opportunity to name the 64-bit ARM architecture "LEG" < 1362252243 63282 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pfffff* < 1362252251 461405 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la Thumb < 1362252254 894807 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best way to bring a C program to a screaming halt? volatile int x = 0; for(volatile unsigned int i = 0; i < UINT_MAX; i++) { x = time(0) + rand(); } < 1362252263 229393 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oh my gosh I I only just got that joke < 1362252267 375566 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I all this time < 1362252271 786475 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'thumb' 'ARM' < 1362252276 277278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also: ELF and DWARF < 1362252279 721187 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-33-39.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, volatile is your friend. < 1362252294 376322 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow . I didn't get that one either < 1362252310 245168 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :acronym naming people are horrible/wonderful < 1362252314 824146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1362252325 285365 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microprocessor without Interlocking Pipeline Stages < 1362252329 604983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't elide a "without"!! < 1362252353 390438 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love that one, it's like, almost immediately after the original they put the interlocks back in < 1362252356 697747 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1362252392 177373 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: oh, so like, I made it so all the randnums were zero (so it always aliased) < 1362252395 577247 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it takes 1981 cycles < 1362252401 953065 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahah right < 1362252411 633208 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all the randnums are [0,2), it takes 1649 < 1362252414 442903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: oh, you mean to get rid of the load/store delay slots? < 1362252416 562363 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliasing is evil < 1362252421 770229 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil evil < 1362252424 42176 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,4) it's 1053 < 1362252435 551985 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,8) it's 919 < 1362252453 320261 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically the cpu is speculatively executing many iterations ahead, and it has to stop and wait if it turns out the loads and stores collided < 1362252454 21105 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah that's impressive < 1362252454 332683 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are interlocks the same thing as bypasses < 1362252477 252783 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmm I was just reading about that the other day but didn't quite get it, let me see if I can find the wikipedia explantion < 1362252488 612561 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_RISC_pipeline#Solution_B._Pipeline_Interlock < 1362252500 357622 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the same thing in... reverse............ right? < 1362252518 508703 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interlocks delay the pipeline when data isn't ready for an instruction, I think < 1362252525 977480 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1362252530 967407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not all hazards can be bypassed < 1362252593 860085 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally if you have an ADD then a LOAD < 1362252600 927582 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that takes 2 cycles no matter what < 1362252616 278249 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex : address calculation < 1362252622 846688 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362252631 409466 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think like, the idea is to bypass everything you can, use delay slots where you can't (maybe), and then interlock things where you can't really or don't want to use delay slots < 1362252635 912692 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a cache miss might be an interlock? < 1362252638 265163 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like add rx, [ra + rd] will have 3 cycles latency on the result < 1362252792 197004 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Client Quit < 1362252902 894996 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362252935 676658 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think intel actually has some performance counters for cases when speculative loads need to be cancelled because an earlier store aliased it < 1362252969 294536 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also a thing where a store's address is a multiple of 4K away from a load's address, they falsely alias < 1362252986 26703 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1362253003 394110 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks cache line based :D < 1362253008 129030 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how the pseudohash for the cache table works, probably < 1362253022 187464 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1362253175 223246 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks < 1362253181 119569 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't that happen a lot < 1362253189 121176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are copying between aligned arrays < 1362253259 190481 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you need to make sure that the arrays are aligned "but not too much" < 1362253264 717972 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's generally good to avoid having things offset by *exactly* that multiple < 1362253277 614380 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. don't make the stride of your array 2048 or 4096 XD < 1362253288 170111 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will tend to produce cacheline colocations yes < 1362253297 891379 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of chips really dislike that < 1362253308 296038 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was actually an issue in the linux kernel with bulldozer, lemme see if I can find that one < 1362253327 55984 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_bulldozer_aliasing&num=1 < 1362253379 169587 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I remember right, it has a 2-way instruction cache that's shared between two cores in a module < 1362253395 472762 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the kernel allocates instruction pages wrong, it can cause aliasing issues that bounce cachelines back and forth between the cores < 1362253406 355783 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's only 2-way < 1362253613 72246 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1362253672 451974 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if the cache lines were aligned to some weird number like seven words this wouldn't happen! < 1362253678 933033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something unsatisfying about using cache to provide the abstraction of fast large memory, and then having to think past that abstraction and understand the cache behavior in detail to get good performance < 1362253686 83179 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems self-defeating < 1362253690 497098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it doesn't matter for most programs < 1362253761 953936 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe for high performance stuff, we should just admit that our computers are distributed systems composed of lots of processors with small memories, talking to each other and to a big memory < 1362253793 408904 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's sorta true of everything in computing? hardware tries to provide a system that's fast in general, but the more your code is aware of the hardware, the faster it can be? < 1362253823 778656 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1362253848 120025 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes it seems that you have to be not just awer of the hardware, but actively subverting the clever things it tries to do, when they are not so clever for your use case < 1362253884 181990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if i'm writing some numerical inner loop, rather than thinking hard about automatic cache behavior, i should just tell the CPU what to cache and when < 1362253892 486575 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people already do this with prefetch instructions < 1362253904 523276 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that's what Checkout is for :p < 1362253910 452125 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ;P < 1362253912 727297 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardware prefetching is kinda iffy though, I think a lot of guides say not to use it except in rare cases < 1362253919 841235 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, software prefetching < 1362253924 474646 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because the hardware prefetching is really good) < 1362253927 79075 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you're talking about rare cases here, aren't you < 1362253931 120065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc emits it for fairly simple loops < 1362253933 434936 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found it really hard to make software prefetching useful < 1362253940 519392 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :really o_O < 1362253953 961004 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the -march setting yeah < 1362253980 161663 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is making checkout work on a modern cpu actually possible < 1362253994 238187 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkout? < 1362254019 841333 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google esolang checkout < 1362254021 223795 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the wiki < 1362254021 680510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout < 1362254021 830084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Checkout - Esolang < 1362254073 809067 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to remember the case i had < 1362254177 431530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1362254207 58212 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make it fast and good generally but possible to use for specific applications" is a pretty general problem for design, i guess < 1362254285 683972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how arcane the checkout spec is < 1362254356 171179 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't even know how the hell it works < 1362254402 623594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are all these weird behaviours that come out of nowhere < 1362254405 50055 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have an example bf interpreter < 1362254406 226150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like abstain/1 < 1362254441 482972 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For each argument, create a new level 5 subunit, and execute the given code. How this command works is system-dependent." beautiful < 1362254513 851260 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362254747 894801 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1362254758 619536 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1362254790 809442 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1362255137 143878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1362255137 770822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 7h 43m 2s ago: what is sprø som selleri < 1362255137 920488 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf asked 7h 42m 56s ago: (THX) < 1362255160 269111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :crunchy, like celery. < 1362255182 8327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the literal meaning. < 1362255205 182424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 ctypes < 1362255222 164262 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to test my Python Mersenne Twister against the reference C code < 1362255227 171308 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ctypes made this very easy < 1362255277 775559 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you import any .so as a Python module basically < 1362255499 24747 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dumps the symbol table as the list of module properties? < 1362255533 128393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1362255544 4207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does dlsym() dynamically on access < 1362255545 781403 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know which < 1362255615 469807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: How do you talk about unions categorically? < 1362255629 965089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shachaf isn't here < 1362255631 239456 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1362255639 788644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1362255656 53153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf crunchy, like celery. < 1362255656 629586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1362255667 833667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_disjoint_ union is coproduct, afair. < 1362255684 398879 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but he meant not-necessarily-disjoint union. < 1362255686 215329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordinary union might be a pullback or pushout? < 1362255701 78983 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he went through all that too < 1362255701 522686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushout i guess < 1362255704 930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1362255704 956452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to specify argument / return types yourself, naturally < 1362255714 366176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1362255716 962032 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for small things that's no great hardship < 1362255717 964514 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally. < 1362255730 74280 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the alternative (parsing C header files?) would be cumbersome for small things < 1362255732 424119 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it coerces tuples to arrays or whatever? < 1362255743 490730 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like < 1362255752 103803 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives you helper functions to construct mutable arrays and such < 1362255758 379578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.python.org/2/library/ctypes.html < 1362255766 938723 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's definitely easy to screw up using it because... it's C < 1362255789 262165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems more or less unavoidable < 1362255849 489524 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's probably not the right answer for binding to a huge library with hundreds of functions and structs and whatever < 1362255872 562139 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Sometimes, dlls export functions with names which aren’t valid Python identifiers, like "??2@YAPAXI@Z".» dig at c++? dig at c++ < 1362255885 449895 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1362255889 623393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't even know < 1362256160 442417 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ctypes tries to protect you from calling functions with the wrong number of arguments or the wrong calling convention. Unfortunately this only works on Windows. It does this by examining the stack after the function returns, so although an error is raised the function has been called" uh < 1362256178 165015 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are, however, enough ways to crash Python with ctypes, so you should be careful anyway." < 1362256920 467077 :hagb4rd|lounge!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362256936 80365 :hagb4rd|lounge!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1362257153 62216 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1362257306 298363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1362257306 723674 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 27m 31s ago: crunchy, like celery. < 1362257311 864120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I understood that much. < 1362257592 34902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:53:14 something that irks me: i'm not sure all those impossible geometries you can build with portals are actually non-euclidean like everyone says < 1362257595 141904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:55:06 since their curvature is still everywhere zero < 1362257608 644737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not think "euclidean geometry" applies to everything with zero curvature. < 1362257652 436063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :euclidean geometry basically means your space is a vector space < 1362257828 237402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :euclidean geometry also has the property that (1) it looks the same everywhere (2) has trivial fundamental group. < 1362257887 417411 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the difference is thas in a portal based one the non-euclidianity is concentrated in the portal junctions, where in other ones the non-euclidianity is spread over evenly (giving curvature) < 1362257923 600676 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your crazy portal space isn't non-euclidian locally, but globally it is < 1362257926 588940 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1362257932 374978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :without (2) you can get things like befunge-like wrapping. without (1) you can probably get even more complicated things. < 1362257946 889366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: the befunge-like wrapping has no junctions. < 1362257957 512556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a flat torus) < 1362258015 589072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it might be that (2) implies (1). < 1362258053 292002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put differently, any space with zero curvature has euclidean space as its universal covering space. < 1362258073 522401 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-096-030.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1362258077 566241 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1362258084 125166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_maybe_. i don't actually know this. < 1362258091 161052 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1362258098 785991 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh I'm totally out of my depth here < 1362258111 701590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1362258167 716351 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if hyperbolic befunge is possible < 1362258297 981574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably base it on one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_tilings_in_hyperbolic_plane < 1362258379 694779 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there already a space-ish language that works on R^2 that would probably be pretty easy to generalize to arbitrary manifolds < 1362258571 175531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not clear to me from those kind of pictures whether the graph of connections for these tilings are really different from what you can get on a euclidean plane, without which there wouldn't be a substantial difference < 1362258582 96299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*graphs < 1362258650 636707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, hyperbolic geometry allows infinite-sided regular polygons :P < 1362258671 374446 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyperbolic mapping would look something like < 1362258685 429274 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it turing complete < 1362258686 117704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would probably just give an infinite binary tree as the graph, though. < 1362258772 339436 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would look something like < 1362258772 625419 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :||||||||||||||||||||||||||| < 1362258772 799348 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :| || || || || || || || || | < 1362258772 948756 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :||| |||||| |||||| ||| < 1362258772 948980 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :| | | || | | || | | | < 1362258772 949092 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :||||||||| ||||||||| < 1362258773 98558 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :| || || | | || || | < 1362258773 795472 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :||| ||| ||| ||| < 1362258773 945013 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :| | | | | | | | < 1362258779 409779 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1362258786 90443 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where | = somwhere where it's valid to put an opcode < 1362258816 152313 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a tiling of squares where vertexes are surrounded by 5 squares instead of 4 < 1362258817 620328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why i am logged out of wikipedia again, maybe i forgot to tick that box yesterday. < 1362258866 467649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: i'd assume you'd put opcodes on the vertices, since the tilings are transitive in those < 1362258891 127776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the regular ones are also transitive on faces and edges < 1362258944 862017 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Befunge/index.php" oh i forgot about that < 1362259028 975848 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why isn't there a Category:Shit That Works On Weird Spaces < 1362259068 600150 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Category:Articles With No Mention Of Brainfuck < 1362259095 860931 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't having that category mention brainfuck? < 1362259139 806647 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the category wouldn't include itself. < 1362259154 816793 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a small category after all) < 1362259159 914468 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(;_;) < 1362259188 58777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it says "With No Mention Of Brainfuck", not "With No Mention Of Themselves" < 1362259226 733080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Bike groaning so hard he cries? < 1362259236 540449 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1362259248 249763 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:6 would be easier to map to ascii < 1362259252 101108 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually my saline tubes are just leaky < 1362259262 100201 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :map everything to [3,2] ascii groups < 1362259264 978080 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursively < 1362259295 793348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: what's that notation from < 1362259311 940035 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously the language should be composed of analytic functions. any closed path halts because the result is zero!! < 1362259314 477183 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making it up on the fly < 1362259317 997159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, what the heck does that mean < 1362259325 980871 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1362259333 31777 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok normal space is 4:4 < 1362259340 6204 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why. how. < 1362259361 5155 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 sided, 4 corners per vertex < 1362259368 352285 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a square grid < 1362259370 903077 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1362259373 698570 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:3 is a cube < 1362259403 857905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well the {4,4} tiling on the page i linked is euclidean, maybe that's what he means. < 1362259411 634818 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:5 is a hyperbolic surface < 1362259440 418477 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah let's use {} instead < 1362259446 891799 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,3} is a cube < 1362259449 361917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: if you call those {4,3} and {4,5} you will be using the same notation as the article... right < 1362259454 45614 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,4} is a square grid < 1362259471 382327 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,5} is a huperbolic space corresponding to the pattern I pasted above < 1362259486 66580 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have groups of 5 squares around a corner < 1362259497 326825 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could notate as < 1362259498 477026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all in the row number 4 (but actually second) of the regular example pictures < 1362259499 68761 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of lost as to how cutes aren't {4,8}. < 1362259499 721223 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1362259501 393487 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * < 1362259506 37708 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cubes* < 1362259518 559821 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cubes have square faces < 1362259520 714443 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4 < 1362259521 524372 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have six sides? < 1362259529 482183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: because each vertex has 3 edges connected < 1362259533 365090 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but they have 8 corners < 1362259543 813396 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each corner connects 3 edges < 1362259544 464943 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a square has two edges on each vertex. < 1362259561 520801 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each corner is surrounded by 3 squares < 1362259580 889756 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are 3 lines that join at each corner < 1362259601 210935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalently, each vertex neighbors 3 faces < 1362259616 584044 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each corner is connected to 3 different other corners < 1362259634 675857 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence {4,3} < 1362259650 2556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: each corner on the _cube_ has 3 neighboring edges and 3 neighboring faces < 1362259674 582395 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how are squares {4,4}. < 1362259678 11337 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change that 3 for 4 (giving you {4,4}), then your cube turns into a flat grid < 1362259693 683074 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just squares, it's a grid of squares < 1362259727 335863 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have a grid of cubes shouldn't that be {4,6} since each vertex is at six edges or six faces. < 1362259750 511613 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not a grid of cubes < 1362259754 560397 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a grid of squares < 1362259755 215054 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d < 1362259796 995429 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, we're looking at surfaces < 1362259804 87501 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface of a cube is 2d < 1362259812 888267 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surface of a square grid is 2d < 1362259826 443486 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a grid of cubes is not a surface, it's a volume and it's 3d < 1362259831 257524 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't count < 1362259881 463474 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1362259967 578081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: hm those {4,n} n>=5 tilings _should_ be good for a hyperbolic befunge < 1362259993 752721 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362260001 936988 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,6} is easier on ascii actually < 1362260009 378541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being quadrilateral, not too much change in how things work locally < 1362260015 592984 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,5} you represent a group of 5 tiles as < 1362260017 470952 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1362260018 631086 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * < 1362260034 856770 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you apply that recursively then you fill your text file < 1362260095 843458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would still be 4 directions to go from each face. although those directions would no longer be globally consistent. < 1362260118 788840 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think if you just keep going in the same direction you spin < 1362260127 319489 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,6} would be easier < 1362260136 386851 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd represent a group of 6 squares as < 1362260137 814201 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1362260139 10553 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1362260141 959480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would probably need to take care how things are placed in cells, you want to distinguish rotated characters < 1362260146 186833 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your tiling fills the text file < 1362260152 602516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and p and g needs some careful consideration :P < 1362260162 379789 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1362260214 814223 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.176 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1362260376 275059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah I think if you just keep going in the same direction you spin <-- i don't think so, if you go between faces and always leave at the opposing edge you entered, it seems to me like all the {4,n} tilings give an infinite path < 1362260408 276747 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no opposing edge in {4,5} I think < 1362260419 172138 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho there's one in {4,6} yes < 1362260421 586559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh if you rotate right after each move, you will spin in _n_ steps, rather than 4 for the euclidean case < 1362260439 416837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: sure there is, they're still quadrilaterals < 1362260451 642681 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1362260452 281041 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1362260453 240856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming cells are faces, not vertices < 1362260459 181603 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn this is hard :3 < 1362260509 814229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the contents of a cell need to be an opcode and a direction that opcode is facing < 1362260517 213452 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out an ascii mapping for surfaces that aren't {4,n} < 1362260559 215167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well surfaces that aren't {4,n} would mean each cell has != 4 neighbors, which would make it locally much more different from ordinary befunge, i think < 1362260561 332829 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :map to an ascii svg description of the surface < 1362260590 175744 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: how the hell do you edit that! < 1362260602 178614 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your text editor obviously < 1362260604 233707 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml is the future! < 1362260607 33112 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1362260608 206698 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1362260612 49482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: well the euclidean {6,3} is not too hard so maybe other {6,n} can be done too? < 1362260616 332463 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FUTURE MADBR < 1362260641 171363 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the future is going to leave you behind, at 2 radians from zero < 1362260643 418224 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok how do you do {6,4} < 1362260649 364923 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also json > xml < 1362260659 7990 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted < 1362260660 926753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i didn't say _i_ could do it :( < 1362260676 176664 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally unrelatedly "Adaptive Control of Ill-Defined Systems" and "Arrows, Structures, and Functors: The Categorical Imperative" were written by the same guy, cool < 1362260682 883824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use whatever data format is good for your use, whether it is JSON, XML, SQL, MIDI, etc < 1362260702 779115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: ...um you cheat and use the {4,6} one with dual markings, or something :P < 1362260730 897954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume they must be dual vertex-face-wise) < 1362260761 300365 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like i should be angry about appropriating kant for a dumb pun though < 1362260836 365873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y) coordinates won't work with this i think... < 1362260858 776427 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok how would this work recursively < 1362260891 997059 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd start with a group of 4 hexes < 1362260973 807085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you'd want to know i think, is the translation/rotation group of this, so you can calculate when you are returning to the same spot < 1362261019 889516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i noted, (rotate-right move-forward)^n = identity < 1362261040 681840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while move-forward itself seems to be infinite order < 1362261080 918897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you'd want the group elements to be your coordinate system, i guess < 1362261125 374943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this being one of those torsors we have previously discussed here not too long ago < 1362261142 761233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or well, zzo38 asked about something for which they are the answer) < 1362261313 368182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm you could use ^>v<^> gets you back but rotated 90 degrees left < 1362261539 522323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in {4,6}, >v<^>v gets you back upside down < 1362261573 182941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are commands interpreted according to your current facing direction. < 1362261588 906691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is _different_ from your befunge direction of moving :P < 1362261983 199957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,5} and {4,6} have their own wp articles, which link on to _this_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxeter-Dynkin_diagram#Hyperbolic_groups_in_H2 ARGH < 1362262092 466800 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote water memory < 1362262094 615505 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :276) elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. < 1362262095 448130 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order-6_square_tiling has an escher picture :) < 1362262315 948138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: oh hm this should mean {4,8} will _not_ rotate your direction if you return, meaning it has globally consistent directions, i think < 1362262326 802716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(similar for {4,4n} < 1362262328 78858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1362262496 871252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you could think of this moving around as an infinite ternary tree < 1362262503 121365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1362262506 328939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : --- < 1362262544 405896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1362262559 930918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1362262697 188211 :agony!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362262708 602893 :agony!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 NICK :AgonyLang < 1362262821 19794 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all, I've just published my first esoteric language on esolangs: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Agony < 1362262866 489164 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is another (there are so many) brainfuck related language, in this case actually backwards compatible mostly < 1362262883 485138 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes there are so many < 1362262918 546324 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This version supports self modifying code, so increase the agony making something < 1362263019 246203 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, Phantom_Hoover won't be happy. He's got a Tumblr which is pretty much him hating brainfuck derivatives < 1362263043 349100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1362263043 498697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : -+- < 1362263043 498774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | | < 1362263043 498817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : -+-+-+- < 1362263043 498861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | | | | < 1362263045 826385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : -+- | -+- < 1362263048 356677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | | | | < 1362263050 838419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-+-+---+---+-+- < 1362263053 425970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | | | | < 1362263055 827427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : -+- | -+- < 1362263058 326304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | | < 1362263060 934533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry) < 1362263102 680928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the symmetry group would be about how to identify parts of that < 1362263119 305575 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People can hate all they want, their problem, not mine < 1362263179 505776 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`msg HackEgo `? Phantom_Hoover < 1362263181 79796 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: msg: not found < 1362263187 828116 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1362263193 410906 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : ` is not / < 1362263199 485371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny that < 1362263215 439364 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? phantom_hoover < 1362263217 124829 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. < 1362263243 793870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgoryLang: Well, you are currect, but still I also think there are already too many, but don't let that stop you < 1362263366 213295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it. < 1362263370 256728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, fuckyorbrane, brainjoust < 1362263388 449773 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :voltaire had brainfuck derivatives in mind when he said that. < 1362263392 280104 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to start somewhere, I wanted to make something with very limited instructionset, able to run in a core so I can battle like CoreWar (joust is very limited), and self-modifying < 1362263402 130182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voltaire didn't say that, it was his friend. < 1362263413 20229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, he didn't have brainfuck derivatives in mind. < 1362263434 649862 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1362263439 488022 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, check out http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/fyb/doc/fyb_spec.txt < 1362263450 8620 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362263475 39926 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This new language reminds me of a song.. < 1362263480 666064 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1362263504 893560 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, also, am i correct in assuming that there are only 16 addressable memory cells in this thing < 1362263512 205680 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPJTik5mSo < 1362263573 350899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something wrong with you Taneb < 1362263610 30343 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The core can be much larger, but cells just have 4 bits -> 16 possible states < 1362263685 417734 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, while that statement has been repeatedly established, what in particular did you have in mind? < 1362263701 833814 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: FukYorBran is closer to what I had in mind indeed, didn't see it on esolangs < 1362263724 835961 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, it's not as popular as BF Joust, because (perhaps) of its complexity < 1362263770 794732 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1362263805 579620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AgonyLang, but... there's all this stuff about addressing. < 1362263829 510000 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Sure, especially with multiple processes. Agony was implemented in two hours max, the rules are a bit simpler I think, and leverages the self-modifying aspect a bit more. There is also Self-modifying brainfuck, but that is based on characters only < 1362263871 161716 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is machine code mapping, the instructions have a binary counterpart < 1362263950 493680 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so for example <- (two instructions) are in binary 0100 1000, so if the memory pointer points to the "-" instruction and you call "." (character print) it prints "H" (01001000) < 1362263970 29695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the code exists in memory. < 1362263977 471977 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes < 1362264001 525974 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description can be improved I see (assumptions all over the place) < 1362264032 418898 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Hello World! looks like this: <[.<]$$$,{}~<~)+{~*@+{$~*~)~)~@<- < 1362264043 180223 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the <- (H) at the end < 1362264048 789742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense. < 1362264066 474675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really. < 1362264122 506803 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The funny thing is it runs quite a lot of Brainfuck programs without problems, this is just a deeper level adding the machine code memory mapping < 1362264149 75328 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to filter out the comments < 1362264167 493901 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't implemented (nor specified) comments indeed < 1362264187 753496 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most brainfuck programs assume right-infinite tape < 1362264200 530405 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because some implementations don't have left-infinite tape < 1362264234 264465 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, P'' (an early computational model that was virtually the same as brainfuck) has left-infinite tape < 1362264236 813077 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1362264246 266895 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that is why I've specified putting the pointer to the right, after that having a big circular core helps < 1362264285 608890 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, what brought you to esolanging? < 1362264317 156205 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft, I've been doing corewars for a long time, and Redcode basically it an esolang < 1362264324 828242 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah < 1362264339 252629 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've played with whitespace/bf for a while some time ago, and now I just had spare time < 1362264378 347882 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check out Piet! http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html < 1362264380 533543 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading an article about somebody using generic algorithms in BF to create Hello World! re-spraked interest < 1362264436 519934 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/helloworld-mondrian-big.png <-- hello world in Piet < 1362264566 669344 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, a friend is esoteric language fan as well, he implemented various esolangs in Redcode (for example Underload: http://corewar.co.uk/assembly/underload.htm) < 1362264986 374923 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1362265089 42717 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1362265392 458666 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really. < 1362265397 807806 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :977) As Brainfuck derivatives go, it's not all that bad, really. < 1362265534 112907 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-33.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1362265718 239892 :impomatic!~digital_w@146.90.165.144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi AgonyLang :-) < 1362265785 247451 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to meet someone in 15 minutes who has two deaf parents, so I'm now learning a bit of sign language as a surprise, pretty esoteric as well ;) < 1362265815 943324 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo learn nicaraguan sign language < 1362265847 824248 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure you learn the right damn sign language < 1362265854 427562 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASL and BSL are very very different < 1362265860 908672 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And NSL is even more different < 1362265869 531643 :AgonyLang!53802257@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.128.34.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 minutes... < 1362265874 826831 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than ASL, I don't know if those acronyms are ever used < 1362265883 103324 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's bsl, british? < 1362265912 953389 :impomatic!~digital_w@146.90.165.144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've picked up a bit of sign language from watching kid's TV! :-( < 1362265913 174785 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1362265999 159298 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are shows about sign language, then I suppose it can help a bit. < 1362266100 796532 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching news supported by sign language..have you ever noticed, how accurate the gestures are? it's like a perfect reduction unrevealing the essence of the issue < 1362266120 883122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang wiki, now with a genuine van rijn piece < 1362266151 145942 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329b26.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :busting all that rhetorical figures and euphemisms < 1362266299 246554 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ulong tea < 1362266496 648091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is it boiled with charcoal? < 1362266501 366920 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1362266843 615804 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I piet program be represented as a map from some key to an 8-tuple of Maybe PietEffect? < 1362266854 301261 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe (PietEffect, Key) < 1362267076 188690 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... StateT Key Maybe PietEffect < 1362267181 208880 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite... < 1362267384 159922 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Key -> (Maybe (PietEffect, Key)) * 8 < 1362267409 455658 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 18 * < 1362267410 938857 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:6: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1362267411 904685 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 18 * k < 1362267413 383622 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18 * k < 1362267420 559684 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (18 * k) + 1 < 1362267422 71204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18 * k + 1 < 1362267426 122900 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((18 * k) + 1) * 8 < 1362267427 793782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (18 * k + 1) * 8 < 1362267434 482666 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (((18 * k) + 1) * 8) ^ k < 1362267438 261165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1362267502 165778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :piet has keys? < 1362267526 221470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist < 1362267527 972938 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo < 1362267543 845795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he reached 9 in a row yet? < 1362267544 33796 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(876) < 1362267579 569786 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn it < 1362267595 676728 :madbr!boulam@198-84-253-87.cpe.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{4,6} is so hard to turn into a uniform grid :O < 1362267597 999471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the 6th < 1362267608 146488 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 more before it's the 9-in-a-row < 1362267760 588702 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-66-225.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, key to a colour block < 1362268121 869639 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think syntax sugar helps me learn things :/ < 1362268130 584218 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do notation gives me an intuition about monads < 1362268143 450033 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you monster. < 1362268164 71680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :leibniz notation gives people an intuition about calculus. < 1362268178 457258 :Bike!~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ẍ < 1362268307 145282 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1362268551 661254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE cantcode < 1362268554 841644 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CaNtCoDe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) < 1362268619 781410 :cantcode!~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, hElP! < 1362268712 424645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm sadly the WeLcOmE algorithm hasn't been properly refactored < 1362268757 571942 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/WeLcOmE < 1362268758 986467 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ welcome $@ | python -c "print (lambda s: ''.join([ (s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(raw_input())" < 1362268794 350388 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type zipWith id (cycle [toUpper, id]) < 1362268795 673560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> [Char]