00:01:31 .topic 00:02:56 But you didn't specify which cube root <-- all of them, and then the general solution is to do all linear combinations. 00:04:55 oerjan, that seems annoying, the way some of them, say, put the constant in the cell to the right 00:05:06 Going to need to think about what each one does, exactly, in order to use it 00:05:07 :/ 00:06:10 well if you have something like +++++[->+++++<] for 25 then it's hard _not_ to get the result in the cell you didn't start in 00:06:45 It's easy to modify, but would be nice for some of them if it were clearer what it would do 00:06:52 So I know whether I need to mod 00:08:26 i believe we agreed to the principle that it should _end_ on the cell with the result. 00:09:38 and i think all the 2-cell versions have balanced loops, so if you look for those that have > after the final ] it should give it in the right hand cell. 00:09:40 I might just give my language an extra command \ 00:10:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Changing host). 00:10:47 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:12:17 Sgeo: i suspect all the 2-cell ones end on the right hand cell anyway 00:14:27 oh there's a counterexample for 75. it's not the first one listed, though. 00:14:48 * Sgeo decides he doesn't like {} 00:14:54 Instead, meet ; and : 00:15:25 ; inputs the current cell value into the current code block, and ; outputs the result of compiling the current code block 00:15:41 erm, : outputs etc. 00:16:20 ,[;,]: 00:23:00 ok 00:23:28 I still want to not require the pain of writing a Brainfuck quine just to permanently change the meaning of : 00:35:00 you realize this would be _so_ much easier in brainbrain. 00:35:18 oh hm wait 00:35:42 brainbrain compiles brainfuck easily, not brainbrain 00:35:55 or was that interpret argh 00:40:16 well if brainfuck is brainfuck-1 and brainbrain is brainfuck-2, how about brainfuck-3. 00:40:37 * Sgeo is aiming at brainfuck-aleph-null 00:41:19 well when we're talking about stuff like this we should be using ordinals not cardinals shouldn't we 00:41:22 brainfuck-ω maybe 00:41:31 yeah 00:42:02 ordinals are more fun anyway 00:42:43 brainfuck-ε₀ 00:44:33 Brainfuck Continuum 00:48:19 Should I call it Trustfuck or Braintrust? 00:48:35 I can put the latter on GitHub where employers could see it and mention it in interviews... 00:48:45 But I like the name Trustfuck more 00:48:56 Try Babyfuck 00:49:00 Much better for resumes 00:49:54 depends on the company, a lot of them seem to find being profane and unprofessional quite attractive 00:50:21 you could call it trustf**k, or trust**** for added mystique 00:50:29 how about ********* 00:50:31 could it be trustdamn?? trustshit????? nobody knows 00:50:38 Trusthumbug 00:50:45 call it buttshitter 2000 00:51:04 enterprise edition 00:51:07 Trustzounds 00:51:25 how about t***tf***k 00:51:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:51:57 titfuck 00:53:21 -!- monqy has joined. 00:54:16 fuckingfuck 00:54:58 Or you could call it P'' 00:55:02 The math name 00:55:31 or rather, Reflections on Fucking Fuck 00:55:46 Slereah_: you realize that's taken 00:56:04 But at least there's no profanity 00:58:35 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 01:03:35 oerjan: haha 01:05:39 i endorse Reflections on Fucking Fuck 01:06:41 that would be a good name for a blog 01:08:39 Sgeo, call it ardemus 01:08:46 latin is clever right 01:09:24 I don't get it 01:09:38 it's latin 01:09:42 you're not supposed to get it 01:13:26 More important things to work out than the name 01:13:40 Do I need to add more commands to manipulate the code block? How do I fix the quine issue? 01:13:57 Latin would be ainfuckbray 01:18:00 my lazy translation would be cerebrumcrisandum, but that's a terrible translation 01:23:23 I.... think what I need to do is subtly change the semantics of : 01:23:36 ok 01:24:02 I was thinking along the lines of adding a ! and having that mean compile with previous compiler, but that's almost identical to :, but... I see... a little bit of a diference 01:24:33 What I need : to do is send to the previous version of the compiler, rather than have literal meaning tacked in 01:25:08 ....now I need to think if that's implementable 01:25:23 when Sgeo is finished he'll have accidentally implemented Feather. 01:27:28 I think my prior confusion was because I had an incorrect implementation in my head 01:27:51 happens to all of us. 01:30:24 I feel like I want to extend it a bit more 01:30:35 Not just store a compiler secretly, but arbitrary data too 01:31:10 But that seems even more difficult 01:32:55 monqy: adjunctions are "pretty neat huh" 01:33:22 hi shachaf 01:33:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:33:27 Actually, I don't need to add extra constructs to do it. Just write a compiler that transforms, say, q into, say, +++ 01:33:34 hi monqy 01:33:36 before sending to prior compiler 01:33:42 welcome to #-lens 01:33:55 ye. 01:34:01 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:39:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:40:56 monqy: you know how you can get State and Store from the unit and counit of the (e,) -| (e->) adjunction? 01:42:53 ok 01:47:23 How problematic is it that each iteration will result in a bigger and bigger binary 01:47:27 Is this even avoidable? 01:47:30 I doubt it, tbh 01:49:05 Ok, new command. !. Compiles with the primitive compiler 01:51:38 hichaf 01:51:46 heegan 01:51:52 do you like adjunctions 01:52:15 they "are pretty neat imo" 01:52:19 don't know about those 01:52:46 An adjunction between two functions is when you have (F a -> b) ~~ (a -> G b) 01:53:05 between two functions 01:53:08 Er. 01:53:09 functors 01:53:30 Just ask elliott how great they are. 02:08:02 I keep thinking in terms of Haskell, but Scheme is probably easier to write quines in 02:10:14 quines are equally easy to write in most languages, in that there's only one trick 02:10:38 Scheme has the advantage that you get to read/print S-expressions rather than flat strings, but this isn't that useful in writing a quine 02:10:45 Haskell quine is shorter overall I believe 02:11:08 the quine trick is also the halting theorem proving trick and the Y combinator trick 02:11:11 p. good trick imo 02:12:06 AAAA++++++ would trick again 02:12:37 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:20:49 Should the compile command be : or ! 02:21:05 ! seems exciting, but : sort of evokes output, the way ; evokes input 02:21:35 it should be ê™® 02:24:20 So with an adjunction F -| G you have eps : F (G a) -> a and eta : a -> G (F a), and that's enough to give you a monad and a comonad. 02:24:38 With return = eta and join = fmap eps 02:25:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Trustfuck 02:28:17 So yeah, I added a cheat to make programming slightly easier 02:28:47 \H.\e.\l.\l.\o.\ .\W.\o.\r.\l.\d. is hello world 02:28:53 I have no regrets 02:37:22 @ask zzo38 What is ? 02:37:23 Consider it noted. 02:47:06 Here's a question: As of right now, does Trustfuck count as implemented? 02:47:48 I wrote the compiler. The compiler exists. Yet, it is not currently usable. However, it can be made usable in the future. 02:48:01 So, Implemented or Unimplemented? 02:48:01 shachaf: did you finish cryptochallenges part 2 yet? 02:49:19 Hmm, I remember asking a similar question before, and someone noted that if "A compiler exists" is all that's needed, everything is implemented 02:51:07 shachaf: what a strange question 02:51:40 it looks like a default gravatar here, of the 'funny face' variety 02:51:52 if you change 'wavatar' to 'identicon' you'll get a geometrical pattern 02:54:28 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:58:51 I think I was just called a sinner for making an esolang 03:01:36 kmc: Oh, I thought it was zzo38's picture. 03:01:40 I've never seen that default. 03:01:49 kmc: Nope, haven't worked on it. 03:01:54 elliott has been distracting me! 03:01:57 (And other things.) 03:02:02 i see 03:02:02 I should do it. 03:02:13 i need to marshall enough attention to solve problem 14 03:02:53 have you added the word "kentucky" to your lexicon yet 03:03:11 KENTUCKY (adv.) 03:03:11 i don't understand 03:03:11 Fitting exactly and satisfyingly. The cardboard box that slides neatly into an exact space in a garage, or the last book which exactly fills a bookshelf, is said to fit 'real nice and kentucky'. 03:03:21 ok 03:03:32 "activly wasting time is a sin just so you know" 03:03:52 is that because kentucky perfectly fills the space between west virginia, virginia, tennessee, missouri, illinois, indiana, and ohio? 03:04:55 I'm not sure why. 03:04:57 http://folk.uio.no/alied/TMoL.html 03:05:27 i've heard that's a good book 03:06:43 It has many useful words. 03:08:48 PAPPLE (vb.) 03:08:48 To do what babies do to soup with their spoons. 03:09:05 NYBSTER (n.) 03:09:05 Sort of person who takes the lift to travel one floor. 03:09:12 Perhaps I shouldn't paste the whole thing in here. 03:12:48 it's been a while since i watched a baby eat soup 03:19:14 haven't been keeping up with fuckyeahbabieseatingsoup.tumblr.com 03:21:11 "The IPv6 version has extra scenes and extra color support. So if you want to experience ascii starwars to it's fullest you really should get IPv6." 03:21:51 Maybe kmc would find forgetful functors more interesting if someone left adjoint in one. 03:22:10 *groan* 03:22:27 it's funny because marijuana makes people forgetful 03:25:06 There should be a law against fancy letters. 03:25:22 the nazis had one of those 03:26:26 Also there should be a law against Greek letters. 03:27:15 they also banned tubas or was it accordians 03:27:42 have you learned to play the chromatic button accordion yet 03:28:19 no why would i do that 03:28:40 because 'it's p. cool´ 03:29:21 im not cool :( 03:30:01 oh no 03:34:31 -!- augur has joined. 03:49:37 "Next time, I’ll explain what zippers are, and describe how to do calculus with types." 03:49:42 * Sgeo is finding this series enjoyable 03:50:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:50:35 Sgeo: You should make a Twitter account. 03:50:55 I have a Twitter account 03:50:58 @sgeocomet 03:50:59 Unknown command, try @list 03:51:04 Oh. 03:51:12 You should use it. 03:51:19 I do occasionally 03:55:42 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:00:49 http://review.cyanogenmod.org/#/c/30269/1/include/utils/Singleton.h why should this matter? allegedly it fixes a One Definition Rule violation 04:05:56 maybe i am drunk enough to venture into ##c++ 04:06:09 oh boy 04:06:25 i want to know the answer 04:07:41 also using CPP to instantiate templates is great 04:08:10 i heard you like templates so i put templates in your bastardized not-quite-templates 04:09:09 i heard you like monoids 04:12:21 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 04:14:57 Is a disjunctive state monad useful for anything? 04:14:57 zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 04:15:35 ?messages 04:15:36 shachaf asked 1h 38m 14s ago: What is ? 04:15:41 What is the disjunctive state monad? 04:16:13 shachaf: I don't know what tha picture is; I think it is just a random picture used when you don't have a account. 04:16:21 ok. 04:16:29 shachaf: A disjunctive state monad is what I called (CodensityAsk (Store x)) 04:16:54 (It is either the state or the value rather than both) 04:16:58 Let me see. 04:16:59 newtype CA m a = CA { runCA :: forall r. m r -> (a -> r) -> r } 04:17:13 forall r. Store x r -> (a -> r) -> r 04:17:25 forall r. (x, x -> r) -> (a -> r) -> r 04:17:41 forall r. x -> (x -> r) -> (a -> r) -> r 04:17:50 forall r. x -> Either x a 04:18:01 (In addition, <|> can be used to compose states; if the left side is a state then that becomes the input state for the right side.) 04:18:03 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:18:45 That's like half a simple prism! 04:20:44 What is a simple prism? 04:21:01 SimplePrism s a = (a -> s, s -> Either s a) 04:21:05 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 04:22:14 OK 04:23:35 How does this monad behave? 04:24:09 @unmtl ReaderT r (Either e) a 04:24:09 r -> Either e a 04:24:40 So it's like ReaderT s (Either s)? 04:25:12 I suppose so, except that it is now also MonadPlus 04:25:15 I don't think this has much to do with state as such. 04:25:36 I also don't really think it has a lot to do with the state 04:25:53 ReaderT also has a MonadPlus instance. 04:26:04 And (Either e) does (right?) 04:26:12 Hmm, not always. 04:26:20 No it doesn't, but it should, if e is a monoid! 04:26:32 However, it is not the same MonadPlus you get from that. 04:26:55 Right. 04:28:21 (Note that (CodensityAsk ((->) x)) is like (Either x) and will give you the MonadPlus instance automatically.) 04:28:50 Are you sure CodensityAsk is a good name for this monad? 04:29:04 No, but I don't know the better name that is why it is called that. 04:30:05 (Codensity ((->) x)) gives you (State x). 04:31:16 (Codensity R) will give you (x ->) 04:31:17 What is R? 04:31:42 I don't know. 04:31:46 But it exists. 04:32:06 OK, maybe I can figure it out, but right now I don't know. 04:32:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:32:32 I thought we pay you to know these things. 04:32:43 You don't pay me. 04:32:51 We pay you attention! 04:32:58 Sometimes. 04:33:31 Well, yes, it is the IRC you can pay attention whever is written on here, if you want to. 04:33:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:33:36 But I don't know everything. 04:33:36 zzo38: Every monad M can be expressed as (Codensity R) for some R. 04:33:39 Is that true? 04:34:03 I don't know! 04:34:09 I read in a paper that it's true. 04:36:14 @src Cont (>>=) 04:36:14 m >>= k = Cont $ \c -> runCont m $ \a -> runCont (k a) c 04:36:29 m >>= f = DSM $ \s -> either Left (\y -> unDSM (f y) s) (unDSM m s) -- disjunctive state monad 04:36:33 I suppose they look similar. 04:37:24 @ty \m k -> either Left k (m s) 04:37:25 (Expr -> Either a b) -> (b -> Either a b1) -> Either a b1 04:37:44 @ty \m k -> \s -> either Left k (m s) 04:37:46 (t -> Either a b) -> (b -> Either a b1) -> t -> Either a b1 04:38:03 @ty \q fm k -> \s -> q k (m s) 04:38:04 The function `m' is applied to one argument, 04:38:05 but its type `Expr' has none 04:38:05 In the second argument of `q', namely `(m s)' 04:38:08 @ty \q f m k -> \s -> q k (m s) 04:38:10 (t2 -> t3 -> t1) -> t -> (t4 -> t3) -> t2 -> t4 -> t1 04:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 04:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:40:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:42:35 @instances Functor 04:42:36 ContT r m, ErrorT e m, IO, Maybe, RWST r w s m, ReaderT r m, ST s, StateT s m, WriterT w m, [] 04:43:59 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:48:22 god i hate haskell. it's like a variegated salad of chars, but there are no vitamines.. just eye cancer 04:51:12 I'm at the point where I can barely think straight 04:51:44 if at least someone would care and make something useful with it 04:51:53 like burry it deep in a secret place 04:52:13 I'm planning on having Trustfuck compile to Haskell 04:52:15 Does that help? 04:53:32 not yet. what is the goal of that? but i'm not familiar with trustfuck 04:53:38 @google trustfuck 04:53:40 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trust%20Fuck 04:53:40 Title: Urban Dictionary: Trust Fuck 04:53:54 k 04:54:00 got it 04:54:19 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Trustfuck 04:57:13 if you want don't want to waste your time (in the next few moments) have a look at THIS 04:57:15 http://mrdoob.github.com/three.js/ 04:57:36 THAT'S POWERFULL STUFF 04:58:19 never seen such magic before 04:58:58 a few dozens lines of code, and you're off for the ride 04:59:08 hagb4rd: i just made a Quiler compiler to haskell hth http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Quiler&diff=35432&oldid=35414 04:59:15 (probably not.) 05:00:25 haskell code just ends in itself 05:00:42 in that particular case, you are entirely correct. 05:01:10 just had to say this 05:01:15 * hagb4rd feels better now 05:01:29 cigarette? 05:01:38 sorry, i don't smoke. 05:02:10 let's have a look a at quiler 05:02:54 i've also used haskell _lots_ of times to make esolang program builders. 05:03:14 @quote oerjan 05:03:15 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 05:03:52 `uoerjan 05:03:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uoerjan: not found 05:03:59 'oopps's 05:08:07 hm maybe i should have put in a #! line 05:08:28 @quote oerjan 05:08:28 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 05:08:30 @quote oerjan 05:08:30 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 05:08:32 @quote practical 05:08:32 kmc says: I think C++ is best thought of as an esolang. It's fun to learn, fun to figure out how to do some trivial things in only 300 lines of code. Not fun to use for practical stuff. 05:09:00 kmc: did you figure out the answer to your c++ question 05:09:07 no 05:09:09 @quote theoret 05:09:09 JonHarrop says: As the Lispers always say, it is theoretically possible to do a good job but... 05:09:25 @quote arrop 05:09:25 Heffalump says: he's [Jon Harrop] not exactly a Haskell beginner, more like a Haskell fuckwit 05:13:38 tharrop 05:14:06 @quote beaky 05:14:07 beaky says: why did they settle on bitshiftrightassign (>>=) for monadic bind? 05:14:20 @protontorpedo 05:14:21 and haskell is not a lisp. correct? holy shit then m learning haskell 05:14:49 @protontorpedo 05:14:49 as u scale and complexity grows? 05:14:53 So you know how (State s) has a hidden (Store s) and vice versa? 05:17:09 modified the quiler compiler a bit 05:18:22 Lisp and Haskell together might be good for some purposes. 05:19:07 yes, i've always wanted an optional alternative lisp-like syntax for Haskell, for metaprogramming 05:19:11 i know there are a few projects to do this 05:31:26 good old stanford bunny 05:31:38 that takes me back 05:37:51 I made up a combination connector format "Digi-RGB-Plus", which consists of two Digi-RGB video signals, four analog audio signals, and one 1200 bps 8N1 control signal. (The control signal may be absent; it is not needed to play a video. The other signals may also be absent if unused, and any of them can be split into other cables.) 05:38:20 what is the control signal used for? 05:38:28 is it bi-directional? 05:38:40 No, it is only one way (but the opposite way from all of the other signals). 05:39:38 It can be used for remote control functions and for some other functions, such as 0xE2 "Synchro start", 0xE9 "OSD suppress", and so on. 05:39:44 what kind of physical connector would you use? 05:39:55 modified again 05:39:56 I haven't made that part yet. 05:41:45 For video-only you can use Digi-RGB, and you might make a cable between Digi-RGB and Digi-RGB-Plus (regardless of which side is in and out), and it can still work. Digi-RGB-Plus is more like a combined cable like SCART or HDMI, but free, open, far simpler, and other differences. 05:45:16 I don't know if I did something a bit wrong, and maybe there may be a bit more commands than it is now, but all of them are optional. 05:45:20 Maybe you know? 05:59:06 -!- oonbotti has joined. 06:05:02 Some places have really strange laws, I have a list in my computer and in a book 06:07:51 "The state constitution allows for freedom of speech, a trial by jury, and pregnant pigs to not be confined in cages." 06:08:25 is "pig" a euphemism for the common folks 06:08:30 :D 06:08:43 I don't know. Maybe it means pigs. 06:09:54 "It is mandatory for a motorist with criminal intentions to stop at the city limits and telephone the chief of police as he is entering the town." 06:11:47 "Mourners at a wake may not eat more than three sandwiches." 06:20:49 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:23:52 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 06:53:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:07:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:35:53 -!- azaq23 has joined. 07:36:07 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:38:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:42:02 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 07:44:49 -!- stuntane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:46:39 -!- stuntane has joined. 07:49:29 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:01:33 -!- carado has joined. 08:15:08 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 08:50:26 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 08:50:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:51:06 -!- Frooxius_ has quit (Client Quit). 08:51:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:59:05 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Quit: c00kiemon5ter). 09:00:42 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 09:09:52 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Quit: c00kiemon5ter). 09:13:32 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 09:15:02 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Client Quit). 09:16:32 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 09:21:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:35:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:18:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:50:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 10:55:11 -!- Deewiant has quit (Quit: Reboot). 11:09:35 What do you think of "dry" and "wet" skepticism? 11:10:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:10:39 zzo38: Hmm. I'm skeptical. 11:18:49 gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/0textfile/fun/sci-skep section 0.6.1. See also [[Pseudoskepticism]] on Wikipedia. 11:24:37 The two extremes are perhaps personified by Martin Gardner (dry) and Marcello Truzzi (wet). 11:33:39 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Graphics drivers messed up. I am quitting blindly, please retype any messages to me once I'm back.). 11:38:37 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:48:49 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:10:09 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:13:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:13:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:13:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:13:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:14:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:23:53 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:24:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 12:25:30 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:27:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:27:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:27:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:29:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:42:58 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:51:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:57:23 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 13:07:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:12:38 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:13:33 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 13:31:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:31:09 -!- glogbot has joined. 13:31:10 -!- glogbackup has left. 13:31:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:31:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 13:38:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:52:33 -!- boily has joined. 13:57:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:59:14 Is it ok to make code be on a very long line if it makes my life sufficiently easier? 13:59:50 Actually, the code wouldn't be on one line, the string representing the code would be 14:00:00 This would be far more pleasant if Haskell had multiline strings 14:00:12 is it ok to put your code on the long line? 14:00:33 As in, not bothering to break the string up so that it's on multiple lines 14:00:55 Although I'm sure I could figure out a way to make it work 14:01:13 (Splitting string on multiple lines) 14:08:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:08:53 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 14:19:57 -!- Taneb has quit. 14:32:00 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:35:36 Haskell is the world's best multiline strings language. 14:43:24 how do you do multiline strings in Haskell? 14:46:42 I'm just going to use ++ or something probably :/ 14:47:19 It's not like I have no understanding of quines work, I'm sure I can pull this off 14:56:55 -!- cuttlefish has joined. 15:20:22 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:20:59 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:21:22 Is randomIO/randomRIO generally a bad idea compared to newStdGen and then random/randomR ? 15:27:38 It suddenly occurs to me that giving a program access to the compiler it was compiled with might not actually be impressive... 15:27:40 :/ 15:27:46 Do other languages do that? 15:34:28 ,[>\\;<;]: 15:34:31 oops 15:34:50 hmm 15:35:21 \\>,[<;>;,] 15:35:24 \\>,[<;>;,]: 15:35:48 You know what makes more sense than ; and :? 15:35:50 : and ! 15:37:18 After all, sending to code block is a sort of output 15:38:51 you could always go the intercal way with ¢. 15:39:28 Sgeo: Perl does that 15:39:35 although it's not obvious 15:39:51 (Perl compiles to bytecode and then executes it, internally; it's possible to both get at the bytecode, and get at the compiler) 15:41:36 I want to add another command 15:42:03 But have a weird decision to make 15:42:09 I want it to use the nth compiler 15:42:37 But do I count 0 as "The compiler used for the running program", or "The original compiler that has no corresponding source code"? 15:42:55 Hmm, I could make ! emit the current compiler version and 0@ be the primitive compiler 15:43:22 Wow, that's bad naming, should switch them around 15:43:57 There probably is an esoteric language where you can modify the compiler/interpreter 15:44:39 Sgeo: may I point you to this fine compilational eldritch horror: http://caterwauljs.org/ 15:44:46 So you could write some header code that would program the interpreter so that everything from a certain point gets interpreted as brainfuck 15:44:53 Sgeo, ooh 15:44:54 ooh 15:45:02 you could include a spec of the target language 15:45:17 and write a... compiler generator? 15:45:27 ? 15:46:04 The tricky part is that your code changes meaning as you change the interpreter 15:46:40 just seen as a quiz question: "true or false: there are over 1 billion web pages on the Internet" 15:46:55 if you count pages that are generated on demand, I think there are infinitely many, aren't there? 15:47:18 You'd probably want some way to accumulate changes and then apply them all at once 15:47:48 FreeFull: you can do that sort of thing in loads of languages, both eso and non-eso 15:47:49 ais523: Do you count pages you can only see once though? 15:48:03 FreeFull: well the quiz show said it was true, but didn't elaborate 15:49:16 What, modify the interpreter on the go? 15:49:30 To have it end up as a completely different interpreter? 15:50:11 I swear I've seen a language that has some program that starts out Lisplike and becomes Smalltalk-like 15:51:19 Sgeo: A haskell quine is very easy to write 15:51:31 My first working quine was a haskell quine 15:51:45 Yes, and I have an idea of how I would structure it 15:51:57 FreeFull: it isn't normally /completely/ different, although in something like Forth it is 15:52:11 The thing is, it's a large program that needs to be quinified, and it would be ... easier, to have macros to ease some of the pain 15:52:29 Although again, I think I can do it comfortably in Haskell 15:52:30 ais523: I'm thinking *some gobblebock* *brainfuck* 15:52:53 FreeFull: yeah, I think you can do that in Forth, not sure if you can change the parser though 15:52:56 And once it's in brainfuck mode of course, it's stuck there unless you provided an escape hatch 15:53:02 but that's pretty much what Forth is designed for 15:53:14 Also, it's not a perfect quine, I need to add stuff in and change a number etc. 15:53:52 Sgeo: Guessing you can't read the source? =P 15:54:13 That feels cheatingish 15:54:25 And it would be nice to someday write a version in x86 15:54:33 Although that would be clinically insane 15:54:53 It would... illustrate what I want to, more clearly than Haskell 15:55:39 Writing a compiler for a Brainfuck derivative in a Brainfuck-like language that targets x86 without writing a bit of ASM 15:56:12 (Well, really, the compiler would be targetting a Brainfuck-like language then calling a compiler primitive) 15:57:16 ais523: You should be able to do anything, even make the interpreter read backwards and reinterpret your code as something else 15:57:45 FreeFull: there's no particular reason why you couldn't change the parser in that sort of language (see, e.g., Feather), just I'm not sure whether it tends to be implemented or not 16:11:58 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 16:20:15 I thought my language was insane. Is it actually boring? 16:20:16 :/ 16:20:24 Although implementing it will be interesting I guess 16:36:11 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:39:49 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:43:01 Hmm, showing a tuple doesn't put a space after the , 16:43:10 (I mean, not a big deal or anything, just found that weird) 16:43:57 What I'm doing is too elaborate for a typical quine, but considering that it's a large program that needs to be quined...) 16:48:18 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:48:24 http://hpaste.org/82223 16:48:59 Sgeo: there's a reasonably simple way to quine arbitrarily large quines 16:49:13 you basically make a format for your language that can easily be either evalled or output (this may require writing an interpreter) 16:49:20 then do your quine underload-style 16:49:46 -!- sivoais has joined. 16:51:50 Anything particularly bad about my approach? 16:53:04 I don't know, I haven't read it :) 16:53:28 Hmm. With my current spec, even if something only uses the primitive compiler, there's no way to statically determine that, so all compilers get included 16:53:32 :/ 17:04:53 * Sgeo considers adding a ; command 17:05:45 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:07:43 ; would be compile-in 17:08:15 That is, if the program is being executed as a subcompiler, it receives code. This way, such a compiler is free to ask for genuine input if it wishes 17:08:18 Is that too insane? 17:11:23 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:22:24 hmm 17:22:49 how does the thing work where you denote the image of a function f : X -> Y work in category theory 17:23:33 is it like... f is a functor from the... category of subsets of X to the category of subsets of Y? 17:25:18 functions aren't really functors? 17:25:24 category theory is all one level up 17:25:52 a functor is from category C to D if that's what you mean?? bear in mind I know almost nothing about CT 17:27:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:27:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:28:58 no, PH is correct 17:31:41 elliott, no but you know how you write f(X) to mean {f(x) : x \in X} 17:31:58 yes 17:35:08 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:40:35 http://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/18cbti/tomtmod_avoid_linking_to_tumblr/ 17:40:36 fuck 17:43:05 hi 17:44:10 Reddit considers Tumblr to be spam :( 17:52:20 -!- Halite has joined. 17:52:48 I made an Esoteric Programming Language today. It's heavily based on BF. 17:53:55 !help 17:53:55 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 17:54:03 !bf_txtgen 17:54:07 ​20 +++++[>++>>><<<<-]>. [23] 17:54:09 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 17:54:20 `? brick 17:54:22 Brick goes in brain. The statutory punishment for perpetrators of brainfuck derivatives. 17:54:51 (Law of the jungle, I'm afraid.) 17:54:58 I call my programming language NAND++ 17:57:45 fizzie, I haven't been brainbricked 17:58:02 Yet I'm actively working on a BF derivative 17:58:12 Then again, it's not a trivial BF isomorphism 17:59:02 no, it's just you using the wrong language as a basis for experimentation 18:06:53 lol, are you talking about BF 18:07:29 I'm making a language based on it, but the core interesting idea of my language isn't really BF specific 18:07:46 I'm just using BF as a language to uses as a basis for my additions 18:08:19 Halite: there are an awful lot of brainfuck derivatives, it's very rare indeed that someone makes something new using one 18:08:55 If you look at Phantom_Hoover's Tumblr (phantom-hoover.tumblr.com), you'll see his opinion on the matter 18:09:31 there are especially a lot of languages which are either bf with the commands renamed to something zany or bf with a couple of instructions added 18:11:03 I like your blog. it is sane. 18:11:25 unfortunately it is not his 18:11:30 he is a fraud 18:11:30 elliott: ssh 18:11:36 that ook entry is amazing 18:11:48 There ought to be more content 18:11:49 `my greatest work' 18:11:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: my: not found 18:11:58 Ooh, did we forget? 18:12:02 `welcome Halite 18:12:04 Halite: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:12:32 hi 18:12:42 hi 18:13:27 I personally think BF derivative are a good way to get into esolanging, so long as you follow up with something more interesting 18:13:31 *derivatives 18:14:26 you're just trying to legitimatise your own seedy past 18:14:40 *I* never made a brainfuck derivative, and just look at all... the... 18:14:59 Phantom_Hoover: I made three, I think 18:15:01 but they're all good 18:15:06 I made three languages that could be described as brainfuck derivatives 18:15:14 One is technically an Ook! derivative 18:15:22 I haven't made three languages yet :( 18:15:22 (slightly better? maybe not?) 18:15:24 Taneb 18:15:35 i don't think i can talk to you any more 18:15:57 One is only like brainfuck in that it's imperative, tape based, and single-character-per-command 18:16:09 Which Phantom_Hoover has already forgiven me for 18:16:27 And MIBBLLII isn't brainfuck but looks like it is 18:16:43 So, all of them could be argued to /not/ be brainfuck derivatives 18:16:51 In fact, two of them really aren't at all 18:17:04 Phantom_Hoover: can you talk to me again? 18:17:47 no 18:17:52 http://www.taneb.org/ 18:17:54 ZEUGMA 18:18:09 THAT PROBABLY IS NOT ME 18:18:29 I, alas, am not a francophone psychologist 18:18:34 i think it is perhaps the most french website 18:19:08 Especially not one with a website designed in the 90's 18:19:09 Ugh 18:19:11 ah tiens, zeugma. ça faisait un bout que j'en avais entendu parler. (oh, zeugma again. it's been a while since last time I heard of 'em.) 18:19:44 is this some kind of french esolang association 18:19:45 boily: can you explain the thingy that is zeugma 18:20:09 oh, zeugmas are like syllepses 18:21:08 as the large comic sans sentence says, it is a «rapprochement». some kind of weak surreality (and in that case, terrible web design.) 18:21:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:22:27 must've mentally edited out the comic sans 18:32:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:38:19 rapprochemet 18:38:30 what are you talking about 18:39:57 something french 18:40:35 boily: do french things make any more sense if you are one of them 18:41:37 boily: perhaps. I'm not French. 18:41:48 `? boily 18:41:49 boily is Canadian or something. We are not sure about Canada's existence. 18:41:59 of course you're french, you talk to yourself 18:42:01 i thought you were swiss 18:42:09 same thing 18:42:33 No one will complain if this thing gets compiled into what is essentially an interpreter glued to some code to interpret, right? 18:42:42 c'est pas parce que je me parle tu seul que je suis français, bon. (it's not because I talk to myself that I'm French, so there.) 18:43:19 by the way, wasn't there a belgian guy here some time ago? I remember having a conversation with him. 18:44:11 prolly bike 18:44:16 answer the question 18:44:20 are you swiss?? 18:44:28 this IRC contains one intentional error and one accidental error 18:44:44 *IRC line 18:44:50 Phantom_Hoover: no, I'm no Swiss. 18:45:06 are you belgian? 18:45:10 neither. 18:46:10 ...luxembourgishan? 18:47:03 nope. 18:47:33 (hm... do they have an easy citizenship application process? would be nifty to have a passport from them.) 18:49:50 !haskell main = (\s -> putStr s >> putStr " " >> print s) "main = (\\s -> putStr s >> putStr \" \" >> print s)" 18:50:02 main = (\s -> putStr s >> putStr " " >> print s) "main = (\\s -> putStr s >> putStr \" \" >> print s)" 18:50:04 last night i had a dream where i was about to fly to germany and then i realized i'd left my passport at home :( 18:50:12 what abour your wings 18:50:28 boy were my arms tired 18:50:40 luxembourg passport would be nice as it's an EU member 18:51:08 they were in the EU back when it was just about coal and steel 18:51:11 before it was cool 18:51:51 talk about esoteric languages... 18:52:24 Halite: don't worry. it's not Friday yet. 18:53:38 wait a second 18:53:44 Halite, maybe we would if people would make new ones that aren't brainfuck derivatives 18:54:10 Halite: don't be silly. this channel is about esoterica. 18:54:14 are you talking about programming languages or languages you speak 18:54:23 yes. 18:54:26 there are two types of esoteric languaged 18:54:34 what's programming 18:54:39 `WELCOME HALITE 18:54:41 HALITE: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 18:55:04 `welcome 18:55:05 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:55:25 esoteric on irc.dal.net 18:55:35 yeah 18:55:45 you can talk about esolangs there 18:55:54 this channel is about spiritualism 18:55:58 so guys 18:56:02 is it really enough to push 18:56:14 or must we, on some level, pull 18:56:14 `WELCOME PHANTOM_HOOVER 18:56:16 PHANTOM_HOOVER: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 18:56:40 :( the output Haskell code is going to be so damn verbose 18:56:44 WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN 18:57:02 Large Trustfuck programs compile into ridiculously large Haskell programs 18:57:11 I don't know if this is something I should be too concerned about 18:57:26 Halite, they're just messing with you 18:57:27 ain't no problem. disk space is cheap, and big means enterprisey. 18:58:22 I made a programming language called NAND++ 18:58:40 Halite, no, see, we do that as part of a thesis on whether deception is justified if you do it to noobs 18:59:18 so anyway 18:59:30 is your language brainfuck except + and - are replaced with NAND 18:59:30 Phantom_Hoover, oh. Deception wasn't justified to me. This is for esoteric languages. 18:59:57 Phantom_Hoover, it is similar to Brainfuck but not intentionally that close. 19:00:28 THERE'S HOPE FOR YOU YET 19:01:07 -!- md_5 has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:01:25 Phantom_Hoover, what 19:01:50 hello 19:04:00 Halite: put it on the wiki 19:04:13 Hmm. 19:04:27 I want to flip the meaning of ! so that ! on 0 is "most recent compiler" 19:04:37 Fits in more with having a "compiler stack" I think 19:06:09 -!- augur has joined. 19:09:49 o 19:10:43 Phantom_Hoover: are you picking on Halite? 19:10:58 no, mr smith 19:10:59 Sgeo: I guess the worst case scenario is that you end up with some "ridiculously large program" stress tests that crash ghc 19:11:16 Phantom_Hoover, think about what Trustfuck means: People will be able to write compilers for their favorite idiotic Brainfuck derivatives using a Brainfuck-like language! 19:11:34 i am all for this 19:11:43 make 'em suffer 19:15:34 `welcome 19:15:36 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:19:06 I need to create my user page at User:Halite first. 19:19:11 -!- c00kiemon5ter has left. 19:20:06 Considering that I _am_ writing what acts as a large quine, is it ok that so much code is duplicated? 19:20:40 (Once as code and once inside a string) 19:24:39 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:24:54 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (*.net *.split). 19:31:07 -!- Halite has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:37:56 -!- monqy has joined. 19:38:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:47:02 @time Taneb 19:47:02 Local time for Taneb is Tue Feb 12 19:47:02 2013 19:51:16 @time lambdabot 19:51:16 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 19:51:20 yes, definitely 19:51:29 you have to exist on a server somewhere, don't you? 19:51:41 Could be distributed? 19:53:56 hmm 19:53:59 not easily, but I guess it's possible 19:56:14 Screwmejssel (Finglish ftw.) http://youtu.be/UiYMM0kZvno 19:57:44 finglish? not swenglish? 19:58:06 or maybe it started out as swinnish 19:59:28 "firstly" is a nice non-english word 20:00:44 firstly is not english? what about premièremently? 20:00:59 that's canadian 20:01:04 "firstly" is a real word, I think 20:01:05 leastlastly 20:01:16 not sure though 20:01:24 it might just be "first" as the adverb too 20:01:53 dictionary.org has it, but I think it's just an error that accidentally made its way into some dictionary 20:02:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:03:11 *.com 20:04:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:05:04 Remember how last year I went to a UV rave and fell asleep and dreamt of lambda calculus? 20:05:22 no. 20:05:27 yes 20:05:40 oerjan: look what I did today!! 20:05:41 listIsAMonoidInTheCategoryOfEndofunctorsOfHask :: Monoid (FComp (->)) List 20:05:41 listIsAMonoidInTheCategoryOfEndofunctorsOfHask = Monoid { unit = Nat Id List (\_ x -> [x]) , mult = Nat (List :. List) List (\_ -> concat) } 20:05:46 you young people and your functional memories. 20:06:01 Anyway, another UV rave is coming up 20:06:06 what are raves like 20:06:06 Debating going 20:06:14 elliott: OKAY 20:06:19 Loud music that I don't recognize and flashy lights, monqy 20:06:24 Taneb: your memories are inside your head and generally not accessible to other persons 20:06:32 Taneb: sounds bad 20:06:44 monqy: but also dancing and people 20:06:49 sounds real bad 20:07:10 bletch. people. 20:07:46 hmm, how do you fall aslepp on a rave? 20:07:47 people. sometimes they are okay. but too frequently they meddle in my plans. 20:07:53 elliott: I'm laughing so much at that its hilarious 20:07:55 *im 20:07:57 monqy: but consider: you fall asleep and dream of the lambda calculus? 20:07:58 olsner: not taking enough speed 20:08:08 olsner: I have no idea 20:08:13 I think I was tired 20:08:22 I recently slept through an airplane landing. 20:08:26 maybe you had a seizure from the blinkenlights? 20:08:32 i recently slept 20:08:43 olsner: I was awake for a large portion 20:09:00 what kind of music was it 20:09:05 Who knows 20:09:10 lambda calculus music 20:09:12 was it unz unz unz unz or more like WUBWUBWUBkzzzzzzUHUHWUBWUBWUB 20:09:15 Techo I think 20:09:19 So, the first 20:09:28 Not much dubstep 20:09:33 people combinating 20:09:33 i've heard some "rave music" and it's all goofy goofy goofy 20:09:43 i want you to point on this Ishkur's Guide to where the rave touched you: http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ 20:09:52 monqy: was it happy hardcore 20:10:01 maaaybe 20:10:13 I don't think I've ever dreamt about lambda calculus 20:10:15 most likely some of it was yes 20:10:17 ah, ishkur's guide, that was a while ago 20:10:25 perhaps if it's CBN and affine and you add extra constants 20:10:34 hmm… I should write a completely affine esolang some day 20:10:41 not sure if it would be even vaguely usable 20:10:45 i've likely dremt about lambda calculus but I don't remember it 20:10:57 one problem is that I can't think of an obvious way to prevent losing all state when you loop 20:12:18 -!- md_5 has joined. 20:12:31 hmm 20:12:38 this representation of monads is not the most usable for programming. 20:12:52 elliott: does it work, just in an unusable way? 20:13:18 programming by way of ghc panics 20:13:52 ais523: well I haven't figured out yet 20:13:55 that's sort of the problem 20:14:01 hmm 20:14:37 ugh, not another "can write it but GHC rejects the type it infers for it" situation 20:15:38 The trick is to get GHC to spit out an error that none of the GHC team were aware existed 20:15:38 elliott: if it helps, my boss is having the same problem with Verity 20:15:45 because its typechecker isn't very good at error messages et 20:15:46 *yet 20:16:00 in this case it's that GHC isn't as good as me yet 20:16:04 I am too advanced 20:16:53 elliott: what if you try to write usable, maintainable code 20:17:09 elliott: you are a neural network processor, a learning computer 20:17:33 Okay, Facebook has suggested I ought to go to this UV rave 20:17:39 Taneb: what is a usable maintainer code 20:17:58 elliott: do you remember my Fueue interpreter? 20:18:07 yes 20:18:09 kinda 20:18:10 Taneb: do you trust Facebook to make suggestions for you? 20:18:12 Imagine that mixed with what you've just posted here 20:18:18 that sounds kind of bad 20:18:24 Usable, maintainable code is the opposite of that 20:18:29 my code looks roughly like this 20:18:31 instance Category c => TensorProduct (FComp c) where 20:18:31 type Unit (FComp c) = Id c 20:18:31 unitorL f = natIso (FComp :. Const1 (natId Id)) Id 20:18:31 (\(Nat f _ trans) -> Nat (Id :. f) f trans) 20:18:34 (\(Nat f _ trans) -> Nat f (Id :. f) trans) 20:18:36 unitorR f = natIso (FComp :. Const2 (natId Id)) Id 20:18:39 (\(Nat f _ trans) -> Nat (f :. Id) f trans) 20:18:41 (\(Nat f _ trans) -> Nat f (f :. Id) trans) 20:18:44 assoc f = natIso (AssocL FComp) (AssocR FComp) 20:18:46 (\(Prod m@(Nat f _ _) (Prod n@(Nat g _ _) o@(Nat h _ _))) -> Nat ((f :. g) :. h) (f :. (g :. h)) 20:18:49 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:18:49 (\o' -> m ! (n ! (o ! o')))) 20:18:52 (\(Prod m@(Nat f _ _) (Prod n@(Nat g _ _) o@(Nat h _ _))) -> Nat (f :. (g :. h)) ((f :. g) :. h) 20:18:55 (\o' -> m ! (n ! (o ! o')))) 20:18:57 did i break cuttlefish 20:19:02 ais523: of the three people who've suggested I go, two are involved in the organization of the party 20:19:16 Taneb: I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing 20:19:19 And the third isn't invited and probably isn't aware of any details of it 20:19:26 hmm 20:19:34 what does UV mean anyway 20:19:39 ultraviolet 20:19:45 i always thought it was "ultraviolet" too but that doesn't make much sense 20:20:03 monqy: it's a party where they illuminate the area with one of the safer wavelengths of UV 20:20:08 it means ultra violent 20:20:12 and it makes people's clothes glow if they use the right sort of washing powder 20:20:18 elliott: now that's sensible 20:20:21 And throw UV-reactive paint on people 20:20:28 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:20:36 ais523: i hear that sort of thing makes old people look uglier. weird skin stuff. 20:20:52 Taneb: I didn't realise that was a usual part of the party 20:21:01 is it to compensate for people who've used the wrong sort of washing powder? 20:21:04 Okay, someone's suggested I DJ with him 20:21:09 ais523: perhaps 20:21:12 can i pay money to see taneb dj 20:21:25 also can i not pay money to see taneb dj. that would be preferable because i would save money 20:21:26 However, I seem to remember him being banned from DJing 20:21:36 did he play the wrong kinda music 20:21:36 oh no 20:21:44 did he goof it up 20:21:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_Imaging_Telescope 20:21:50 really extreme 20:21:55 i like how the ultraviolet is not capitalised for no reason at all 20:22:09 uncapitalised for extra emphasis 20:22:18 elliott: you can fix it, you know 20:22:28 His suggestion has received what is called in the social-networking world as a "Like" 20:22:46 I shall now reply with "Tempting..." 20:23:02 oh no 20:23:09 did you know that likes follow you around the internet and steal your browser? 20:23:23 I thought that was Phantom_Hoover 20:23:42 He even hacked into my Tumblr account to write his blog 20:23:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EC3ggFv7cY is the kind of music you listen to taneb. this is important 20:23:54 Could not deduce (Dom (Id (Cod (Id (Cod t0)))) ~ (->)) 20:23:56 uuugh 20:24:10 -!- boily has joined. 20:24:23 ais523: can you fix my code for me 20:24:28 stupid breakers. 20:24:36 elliott: if it's written in highly category-theoretic Haskell, no 20:24:38 I literally can't 20:24:54 unless the mistake is something obvious enough that you'd have found it already 20:24:58 well i wouldn't go so far as to say highly category-theoretic 20:25:19 wow theres whole youtube playlists full of remixes of this "ravers fantasy" thing 20:25:38 taneb i think this is big. maybe you can ca$$$$h in on it 20:25:39 monqy: why are you surprised? 20:25:42 all I did is develop functors up to natural transformations so I can define tensor products and the category of endofunctors with functor composition as the tensor product and then monoids!!! 20:26:51 elliott: well isn't that more category-theoretic than average for Haskell? 20:27:27 ais523: well maybe 20:27:47 nobody knows really 20:28:22 I find it hilarious that this is even nonobvious :) 20:28:55 is it to compensate for people who've used the wrong sort of washing powder? <-- what about people who carefully apply different sorts of washing powder in patches 20:29:10 Then they are reet hard liek 20:29:14 oerjan: I imagine that'd look quite good under UV, but I've never tried 20:30:58 ais523: also do you like my example Quiler compiler 20:31:09 oerjan: yes 20:31:25 except I'm a bit confused about the languages 20:31:32 it's written in Perl and targets Haskell? 20:31:56 hmm… what does the output target? 20:33:01 `addquote did you know that likes follow you around the internet and steal your browser? I thought that was Phantom_Hoover 20:33:06 963) did you know that likes follow you around the internet and steal your browser? I thought that was Phantom_Hoover 20:35:07 ais523: per the definition of a Quiler compiler, the output also must target haskell 20:35:17 oerjan: indeed 20:35:36 so I guess what's confusing me, is why there appears to be a Perl quine in there 20:36:37 there isn't. but since quines are boring quiler compilers, i made this one keep a history, and the first (well, last) item of that is the original perl 20:37:59 well i guess there is, in the sense that it actually does insert a representation of the original perl program into the haskell 20:38:35 If you close your eyes does it almost feel like nothing has changed at all? 20:39:00 AAAA THE PAIN. no. 20:40:20 putStr . snd $ last history from ghci with the module loaded will print the original perl from any of the iterated compilers in haskell. 20:40:53 well should, anyway, i haven't tested more than one step. 20:42:17 * Sgeo throws everyone onto a stack of compilers 20:42:38 kinky 20:42:39 hi Sgeo 20:43:00 Well, my current thoughts re implementation is that the generated Haskell code has a stack of compilers 20:43:07 * boily puts maple syrup on his compiler stack. 20:44:16 Yay, a delusional recruiter emailed me 20:44:41 "We have a requirement matching your profile with one of our client." 20:44:47 Is it ok to make code be on a very long line if it makes my life sufficiently easier? <-- since i did just that with the quiler compiler, i have to say yes, although i briefly considered trying to reformat it 20:44:51 "Minimum 5 years working with relational databases and SQL, ideally on an Oracle environment" 20:44:58 * Sgeo does not have that 20:45:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:45:14 Sgeo: the recruiter will probably just lie and say you have the experience 20:45:43 :/ 20:46:28 is this your recruiter, or the company's recruiter? 20:46:43 actually I'm not sure it matters, they tend to be equally delusional both ways 20:47:46 haha 20:47:48 they ust called me 20:48:11 Sgeo: btw are you familiar with haskell's "...\n\ \..." (still annoying) syntax for multiline strings? 20:48:20 something is seriously wrong with the programming job market that recruiters continue to behave the way they do 20:48:36 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:48:50 is it that they're compensated in a way that gives them shitty incentives from the hiring company's point of view 20:48:56 but the hiring companies don't realize for some reason? 20:49:02 oerjan, no 20:49:14 `resume 20:49:15 résumé 20:49:40 > "test\n\ \like this" -- the whitespace could contain newlines, but not in lambdabot 20:49:42 "test\nlike this" 20:49:59 ~eval "test\n\ \like this" 20:50:08 oh. yeah. must start bot first. 20:50:23 oerjan, is there a function similar to show that prints strings like that, rather than the one-liner version? 20:50:24 -!- cuttlefish has joined. 20:50:24 HAVE YOU TRIED PLUGGING IN THE BOT 20:50:25 ~eval "test\n\ \like this" 20:50:28 "test\nlike this" 20:50:51 Sgeo: no but you can write one using lines 20:51:31 I was just about to call a (different) recruiter when that recruiter called me 20:52:15 you should try to get a job without dealing with recruiters, if at all possible 20:52:47 You have always worn your flaws upon your sleeve, and I have alsways bured mine deep beneath the ground 20:52:56 best way is through people you know 20:53:06 or you can find companies you think look interesting and email them directly 20:54:13 Dig them up, let's finish what we've started 20:54:20 Dig them up, so nothing's left untouched 20:55:01 elliott: how would you like post access on phantom-hoover.tumblr.com 20:55:09 kmc, well, this one practically offered an interview, just need to work out when 20:55:24 Taneb: i dont know if i can deal with that kind of responsibility, sorry 20:55:26 Not sure if recruiter or more representative person from the company 20:55:28 i suggest asking monqy 20:55:35 or beaqy 20:55:36 hi 20:55:44 Sgeo: the thing about doing it automatically is that to get nice haskell you want to include the right indentation before the final \ 20:56:16 Phantom_Hoover: I'd bet you'd like the ability to post onto your own blog! 20:57:34 no 20:57:35 dont do tit 20:57:36 thats cheating 20:59:23 On another note, my computer still doesn't work properly 20:59:34 And what I really want to do is implement Wordeger 20:59:59 In Haskell 21:01:10 > let mlShow _ "" = show ""; mlShow ind s = foldr1 merge (lines s) where merge s1 s2 = init (show $ init s1) ++ "\\n\\" ++ replicate ind ' ' ++ '\\' : tail (show s2) in var $ mlShow 2 "test\ning\n ho" 21:01:13 "tes\n\ \\"in\\n\\ \\ ho\"" 21:01:21 oh 21:01:41 > let mlShow _ "" = show ""; mlShow ind s = foldr1 merge (lines s) where merge s1 s2 = init (show $ init s1) ++ "\\n\\\n" ++ replicate ind ' ' ++ '\\' : tail (show s2) in var $ mlShow 2 "test\ning\n ho" 21:01:44 "tes\n\ 21:01:45 \\"in\\n\\\n \\ ho\"" 21:01:57 oops 21:02:05 > lines "test\ning\n ho" 21:02:07 ["test","ing"," ho"] 21:02:13 > lines "test\ning\n" 21:02:15 ["test","ing"] 21:02:21 ok that is bad. 21:02:42 * Sgeo is too lazy to deal with that 21:02:42 lines doesn't preserve the final newline information 21:05:06 oerjan: Also: 21:05:15 > (unlines . lines) "test\ning\n ho" 21:05:18 "test\ning\n ho\n" 21:05:24 how do you do multiline strings in Haskell? <-- see above 21:05:33 ion: um that's what i said. 21:06:30 What i said wasn’t about lines alone. 21:07:30 no but it follows from it by sheer logic 21:08:07 Is randomIO/randomRIO generally a bad idea compared to newStdGen and then random/randomR ? <-- i think the fanatics will tell you not to use StdGen 21:08:46 i cannot remember what they suggest instead, though. 21:09:21 (note: random{,R}IO also use StdGen.) 21:10:06 also there's a random monad package somewhere 21:10:49 oerjan: it's the global StdGen you're not meant to use, AIUI 21:10:59 though if you are doing "serious random work" then you probably want to use another package entirely 21:11:34 i think i was alluding to the latter 21:12:26 elliott: Well, newStdGen splits off the global StdGen, so are you meant to supply your own seed value to mkStdGen instead? 21:16:44 I think you're meant to use newStdGen once and then maintain it yourself or some such 21:17:08 StdGen sucks as a RNG anyway 21:17:15 mwc256 for lyfe 21:17:45 "Where's the volume control? 21:17:45 There isn't one. If your fans want to change the volume of the audio on Bandcamp, they adjust their computer's volume -- simple as that. We're not trying to build the ultimate platform for them to stream your albums while they play World of Warcraft in another window (which we completely agree would require an independent volume control). " 21:17:49 :( 21:18:08 i,i pulseaudio 21:19:45 #cslounge is leaking 21:20:09 is it 21:21:17 Sgeo: PulseAudio implements its own independent volume control for each program 21:21:21 just in case they don't have one 21:21:28 Sgeo: haha 21:22:38 monqy, "i,i" is a thing that a lot of #cslounge ers do 21:23:52 ais523: It is also very possible for the application in question to make its own (in-the-UI) volume control the same control that is the PulseAudio control, if it wants to. 21:24:35 I'm pretty sure that the best way to deal with pulseauio 21:24:37 is to get rid of it 21:25:03 coppro: keep it around so that you can uninstall it to fix audio problems? 21:25:22 ais523:`quote pulseaudio 21:25:23 btw, I've never had problems with pulseaudio that can't be fixed with "killall pulseaudio", except for when I was testing idim 21:25:24 bah 21:25:27 :) 21:25:28 `quote pulseaudio 21:25:29 I’m pretty sure pulseaudio is better than anything else we have, although a lost of its functionality should be in the kernel. 21:25:29 No output. 21:25:37 a lot 21:25:43 I'm pretty sure I had a quote here along the lines of 21:26:10 "The correct solution to solving all audio problems on linux is 'sudo apt-get remove pulseaudio' regardless of whether pulseaudio is installed or whether you're on debian" 21:26:24 indeed 21:30:42 I could've been quoted as saying that too 21:34:03 I guess so could anyone who had a sound problem in linux at some point during the last N years 21:37:32 coppro: You did say something like that -- http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-10-06#182636coppro -- but I don't see it being made a quote. 21:39:33 `pastequotes pulseaudio 21:39:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6248 21:39:54 good quotes 21:44:09 very zen 21:44:41 `pastequotes monqy 21:44:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10519 21:46:31 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:51:00 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 21:51:02 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 21:51:56 `pastequotes kmc 21:52:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22224 21:52:28 :x 21:53:56 that's hilarious 21:55:26 631 is indeed accurate 21:55:34 hi Snowyowl btw 21:55:39 `welcome Snowyowl 21:55:41 Snowyowl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:56:08 mezzacotta almost makes sense today 21:56:26 -!- Anvilgames has joined. 21:56:27 -!- Anvilgames has quit (Client Quit). 21:57:13 oerjan: is that better than average? 21:57:20 Anvilgames seemed cool 21:57:24 Yes, this is a good mezzacotta. 21:57:47 definitely 21:57:57 `quote 631 21:57:59 631) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. 21:58:13 elliott: you have to admit he picked up after that 21:58:15 Taneb: I agree, although I am biased here. 21:58:24 or maybe began a long decline 21:58:35 `quote 873 21:58:36 873) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will 21:58:38 which country was that 21:59:00 `pastelogs multiocular O 21:59:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.9075 22:00:38 Liechtenstein 22:01:28 ah 22:01:31 seems correct 22:01:42 `url logs 22:01:42 `qc 22:01:44 963 quotes 22:01:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/logs 22:01:49 er 22:01:54 `quote 963 22:01:55 `url bin/log 22:01:55 liechtenstein was invented as a scheme to get votes in the election of holy roman emperor 22:01:56 963) did you know that likes follow you around the internet and steal your browser? I thought that was Phantom_Hoover 22:01:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log 22:01:59 `quote 962 22:01:59 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:02:01 962) I'm a story about the prohibition of chocolate 22:02:03 `quote 961 22:02:05 and ruled for centuries by people who had never been there 22:02:05 961) my university spam filter thinks it's okay for someone i have never met to discuss "usd 2,142,728.00 dollars" with me and "NEED MY HELP" etc. however, inviting me to a conference? such a nigerian thing to do. 22:02:08 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:11 `quote 960 22:02:13 960) The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree 22:02:21 960's being chopped off is unfortunate 22:02:35 as it is clearly the best quote in the file 22:02:48 `pastequotes Greenland 22:02:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27102 22:03:03 oh, oops 22:03:04 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:03:43 `run quote 960 | tail -c400 22:03:45 fizzie> The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Greenland 22:03:55 well that wasn't much 22:03:58 elliott: I'd ask you to guess the reason behind the oops, but it's unlikely you could 22:04:01 so it'd just be cruel 22:04:06 `run quote 960 | tail -c300 22:04:08 re I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?) 22:04:13 ais523: what is it? 22:04:15 oops right 22:04:26 elliott: the website I'm trying to update had a broken certificate 22:04:36 with the result that I'm trying to view it on the computer I'm editing it on, via ssh -X 22:04:41 `quote 960 | paste 22:04:42 No output. 22:04:46 `run quote 960 | paste 22:04:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3535 22:04:55 and Firefox gets confused if you try to run it twice on the same X display, even if it's on two different physical computers 22:05:18 just imagine being fizzie's wife and having a dream about fizzie buying you plane tickets to an #esoteric meet in the middle of greenland in the winter without asking you 22:05:25 is there any greater experience in life one could have 22:06:01 `quote lambda calculus 22:06:01 `quote told the cat 22:06:02 110) Gregor-P: I don't think lambda calculus is powerful enough \ 539) I think this has taught us one thing. We can't teach itidus20 lambda calculus by comittee 22:06:03 488) That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.) The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. 22:06:21 fizzie: is your wife also responsible for 488, or was that something else? 22:06:47 -!- hogeyui has joined. 22:07:00 quintopia: did you have a chance to look at my descriptions of omnipotence and anticipation2? 22:07:08 -!- nollapiste has joined. 22:07:33 `welcome hogeyui: nollapiste 22:07:35 hogeyui:: nollapiste: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:07:40 oh, hmm 22:08:06 that was interesting, why did it double the :? 22:08:26 probably because it splits on whitespace 22:08:44 `welcome windmill windmill for the land 22:08:46 clever 22:08:46 windmill: windmill: for: the: land: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:09:14 we need some way of inserting a literal space 22:09:35 `run bin/welcome "windmill windmill for the land" 22:09:37 windmill: windmill: for: the: land: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:09:40 :( 22:09:59 `run bin/welcome "windmill windmill for the land" | sed 's/://' | sed 's/://' | sed 's/://' | sed 's/://' 22:10:02 windmill windmill for the land: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:10:02 Snowyowl: nicks don't contain spaces 22:10:12 Snowyowl: however you can use `@ directly 22:10:22 or wait can you 22:10:33 dunno 22:10:38 `run @ "windmill windmill for the land" ? welcome 22:10:39 Can't exec "windmill": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ windmill: 22:10:45 nope 22:11:12 @ seems to split on space too, even if it has > 1 argumetn 22:11:15 *nt 22:11:29 oerjan: probably because ` doesn't do argument splitting 22:11:29 i may have designed it to do so 22:11:34 ais523: yep 22:11:55 oerjan: you wrote @? 22:11:59 I thought writing @ was elliott's job 22:12:15 `cat bin/@ 22:12:17 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = join " ", @ARGV; if (s/^([^ ]*) +([^ ]*) +//) { print "$1: "; exec $2, $_; } 22:12:18 (retroactive log fixer, try handling /that/) 22:12:24 looks perly, so probably not elliott 22:12:32 oerjan: I think you missed the joke 22:12:36 ... 22:12:37 elliott probably got it, though 22:12:42 *`@ 22:12:55 * oerjan tickles ais523 with feather 22:13:06 not fair! 22:13:24 why not swat me instead, it's what you usually do 22:13:41 * oerjan obliges -----### 22:14:04 ow! 22:14:34 Does Hackego not like cd? 22:14:50 `url bin/@ 22:14:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/%40 22:15:02 `url .. 22:15:04 Snowyowl: sure it does, but it isn't preserved between ` invocations 22:15:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/.. 22:15:24 `cd quotes 22:15:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found 22:15:34 Snowyowl: you need to use `run for shell commands 22:15:39 ah 22:15:41 there's no such thing as /bin/cd, mostly because it wouldn't work 22:15:55 actually, I can think of a way to implement /bin/cd 22:16:00 it involves attaching a debugger to its parent 22:16:04 /bin/cd should ptrace the parent process and execute... yes 22:16:07 and forcing it to run a chdir syscall 22:16:19 good idea? 22:16:23 best idea 22:16:56 I don't know much about Linux, but you're scaring me anyway. 22:17:18 Snowyowl: well what we're suggesting is an incredibly bad idea, really :) 22:17:33 you can do that sort of thing on Windows too 22:17:42 Raymond Chen uses it as a reductio ad absurdum, on occasion 22:20:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:20:39 actually a friend of mine once used that trick to good practical effect 22:20:48 his window manager was hosed because its cwd was a stale NFS file handle 22:21:30 kmc: did he have a syscall injection process handy? 22:21:36 (can gdb do that?) 22:22:28 can't he close and restart the window manager? 22:22:45 gdb can more or less do that 22:22:58 Snowyowl: yeah, you lose WM state though, and depending on how your xsession is set up, it might want to restart all X processes 22:23:11 weboflies can do that, but (luckily for the sake of humanity) it can't attach to currently existing processes 22:23:23 i do something like "xmonad & echo $$ > $HOME/.xsession.pid; while true; do sleep 86400; done" 22:23:30 so that i can kill / restart my WM easily 22:24:38 I just control-alt-f1 and do DISPLAY=:0.0 unity & 22:24:47 in extreme cases, metacity --replace, rather than unity 22:24:50 what's the "while true" for? 22:24:55 although the lack of any sort of penalty hurts 22:25:10 Snowyowl: it looks like it's trying to intentionally halt the process 22:25:15 and the sleep is to prevent it busylooping 22:25:30 Snowyowl: xdm invokes ~/.xsession as a script, once that script ends it restarts the X server and goes back to the login prompt 22:25:34 that snippet is from my ~/.xsession i mean 22:25:46 there may of course be better ways to do all of this 22:26:04 I think you just went over my head again. 22:26:19 Snowyowl: basically it's making the program not exit 22:26:34 because if it exited, the login prompt would think that kmc had logged out 22:26:55 yeah, typically you just end the file with "xmonad" or whatever your window manager is, but in that case if the WM dies you get logged out 22:27:24 Thanks, I understood that. 22:27:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:27:55 (I'm feeling very un-leet as a result of this conversation.) 22:28:01 well xmonad knows how to reload itself at least! 22:28:11 elliott: is that lazy and pure, though? 22:29:20 Snowyowl: sorry :/ 22:29:34 oh, don't apologise. 22:30:54 all right 22:31:18 i hate that hacker culture is so obsessed with being h4rdc0re rather than learning and teaching :/ 22:31:32 kmc: it isn't 22:31:40 you're thinking of script kiddie culture 22:31:56 no i'm thinking of Reddit and HN and the endless wanking over who's a "real hacker" 22:32:17 anyway if you want me to expand more on any of the things i say, just ask 22:32:19 kmc: I do learn, and occasionally teach, it's just that I'm a .net developer and I don't have anything much to do with Linux. 22:32:20 always happy to 22:32:23 *nod* 22:33:09 Snowyowl: how depressing, I like it when .NET programs run on Linux too 22:33:15 but so many .NET developers don't pay attention to portability 22:34:02 Ah. 22:34:08 C# is a pretty nice language 22:34:19 I personally dislike it, too much bloat 22:35:13 how so? 22:35:23 although I like Perl, so… 22:35:42 Snowyowl: it has a similar problem to C++ where you can't figure out what a line of code does, even if it's apparently obvious, without knowing all the context 22:36:52 also like every other language on the planet 22:36:57 with functions 22:37:43 elliott: well, yes 22:37:51 it's to do with the proportion of lines of code that act like that 22:37:58 at least in Perl, you have the certainty of that proportion being 100% 22:38:04 in C#, it doesn't apply to } 22:38:45 also I don't like things like the existence of both value and reference types 22:40:37 I don't get that, even in C++. Was pointer arithmetic so hard that they added reference types as well? 22:41:09 no, reference types in C++ are to solve a different issue (related to operator overloading) 22:41:17 and then they got a little out of hand 22:41:25 most of C++ is features that try to work around deficiencies in other features 22:47:23 well pointers are kind of bad 22:47:27 in that they are rampantly unsafe and cause tons of bugs 22:47:47 oh, definitely 22:48:11 but that's not the reason C++ added references 22:48:26 that was more to Snowyowl 22:48:38 and most possible pointer bugs that don't involve pointer arithmetic also exist with references 22:48:47 -!- sivoais has joined. 22:48:59 (ever tried to return a pointer to something locally allocated from a function? returning a reference to something locally allocated from a function doesn't work so well either) 22:49:16 `welcome sivoais 22:49:18 sivoais: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:49:22 any idea why lots of new people are joining today? 22:49:29 with random-looking nicks? 22:49:36 those aren't new 22:49:41 you're just insane 22:50:08 * ais523 blames it on the Feather 22:51:36 anyway, if they aren't new, why have I never heard of them? 22:52:39 because I'm not on very often? 22:53:13 perhaps 22:53:16 ais523: because you don't pay attention 23:02:33 -!- variable has changed nick to const. 23:04:04 oh no, someone's SSA'd variable! 23:05:18 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:09:57 `olist 23:09:58 shachaf oerjan Sgeo 23:11:15 olist? 23:11:26 is that a list of people who have complained about `list? 23:11:36 `cat bin/list 23:11:37 ​#!/bin/sh \ oldpwd=`pwd`; cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; name=$(cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | tail -1 | sed "s/[^<]*.*//; s/.*\* //; s/ .*//"); cd $oldpwd; fgrep -q "$name" bin/list || echo -n "$name " >> bin/list; echo cuttlefish boily elliott Taneb HackEgo shachaf Sgeo monqy 23:11:56 coppro: that's cheating :) 23:12:07 It's a list of people who care about OOTS 23:12:12 aha 23:12:19 I care! 23:12:25 Append your nick to the list 23:12:28 no 23:12:55 I should have pulled a zzo38 and said "Append your nick to the list unless you don't want to" 23:13:27 `run sed -i 's/Sgeo/Sgeo coppro' bin/olist 23:13:32 can't have inaccurate lists in the bot. 23:13:32 sed: -e expression #1, char 18: unterminated `s' command 23:13:34 `run sed -i 's/Sgeo/Sgeo coppro/' bin/olist 23:13:37 No output. 23:13:39 elliott: please don't 23:13:42 :( 23:13:52 `run sed -i 's/coppro//' bin/olist 23:13:57 No output. 23:15:29 but the null string doesn't care about OOTS! 23:17:29 `rm bin/list 23:17:33 No output. 23:19:05 woohoo, hackego edit wars 23:19:36 `revert 23:19:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:19:39 Done. 23:19:59 shachaf: I don't see what you're complaining about here, nobody even ran `list 23:20:19 and you'd been pinged a few lines earlier 23:20:27 `run sed -i 's/Sgeo /Sgeo/' bin/olist 23:20:37 No output. 23:20:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:34:01 so how'd halite turn out 23:37:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:37:45 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:39:51 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:42:36 Phantom_Hoover: it was a chatbot? I assumed it was a human 23:43:06 you never know 23:43:14 we were all fooled by tiffany, weren't we 23:46:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:48:25 `olist <-- that's not new, i'm pretty sure i did `olist for it before. 23:49:06 `pastelogs \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19012 23:50:45 hm wrong syntax 23:51:02 `pastelogs \bolist 23:51:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19003 23:51:18 (next time i might look it up) 23:52:04 wait, _both_ i and Sgeo did `olist. 23:52:24 oh no, a week apart 23:53:59 Easy way to extend lists, appending echo foo to it? 23:54:20 `run echo "echo foo" > bin/testlist 23:54:23 No output. 23:54:27 Sgeo: Easier: See smlist. 23:54:28 `run chmod a+x bin/testlist 23:54:32 No output. 23:54:44 `run echo "echo bar" >> bin/testlist 23:54:48 No output. 23:54:49 `testlist 23:54:50 foo \ bar 23:54:53 `echo Sgeo >> bin/smlist 23:54:54 `cat smlist 23:54:55 Sgeo >> bin/smlist 23:54:55 cat: smlist: No such file or directory 23:54:57 `smlist 23:54:59 shachaf monqy elliott 23:55:01 `run echo Sgeo >> bin/smlist 23:55:03 `smlist 23:55:04 No output. 23:55:05 shachaf monqy elliott Sgeo 23:55:10 what's smlist 23:55:14 super mega list 23:55:22 i want in 23:55:29 go for it! 23:55:32 `run cat bin/smlist 23:55:33 tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf \ monqy \ elliott \ Sgeo 23:56:03 `run cat bin/emptylist # template 23:56:04 tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit 23:56:07 I get it 23:56:23 Mostly 23:56:45 `run sed -i 'g/Sgeo/d' bin/smlist # does this work?help 23:56:47 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: extra characters after command 23:56:50 I get the concept but not the specific workings 23:56:52 I guess not. 23:57:19 That it reads itself and does something with all the lines except the first 23:57:27 `run sed -i '/Sgeo/d' bin/smlist # does this work?help 23:57:32 No output. 23:57:36 `run cat bin/smlist 23:57:38 tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit \ shachaf \ monqy \ elliott 23:57:43 yay