00:03:36 hmm, (>>=)(+)($), ((+)>>=($)) or (($)=<<(+))? 00:05:00 I think it would be like ((+)>>=id) which is like (join(+)) so it is doubling 00:05:15 indeed 00:05:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:45 Can you figure out any of these sequences of natural numbers? 00:05:51 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3473, 749, ...? 00:05:55 17, 13, 5, 18, 20, 25, 21, ...? 00:06:03 1, 6, 10, 2, 5, 4, 9, 0, 8, 50, 40, 7, 60, 80, 11, ...? 00:06:25 2, 4, 6, 30, 32, 34, 36, 40, 42, 44, 46, ...? 00:06:30 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 9, 5, 1, 1, 0, 55, ...? 00:06:41 @oeis 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3473, 749 00:06:41 nothing rings a bell yet 00:06:42 Sequence not found. 00:06:53 @oeis 663 896 84733 00:06:53 @oeis 17, 13, 5, 18, 20, 25, 21 00:06:53 Numerical equivalents of the words zero, one, two, three, ... on touch-tone ... 00:06:53 [9376,663,896,84733,3687,3483,749,73836,34448,6463,836,353836,893583,8447833... 00:06:54 Try to figure out without OEIS. 00:06:55 Sequence not found. 00:07:22 @oeis 17,13,5,18,20,25,21 00:07:24 Sequence not found. 00:07:27 O perhaps I did a typing mistake? 00:07:47 I think oerjan is just needing to figure out how @oeis works 00:07:59 no 3473 should have been 3483 00:07:59 (I just made them up and do not remember all of them myself) 00:08:04 @oeis 663, 896, 84733, 3687, 3483, 749 00:08:04 Numerical equivalents of the words zero, one, two, three, ... on touch-tone ... 00:08:05 [9376,663,896,84733,3687,3483,749,73836,34448,6463,836,353836,893583,8447833... 00:09:05 zzo38: the second also seems to have a type, i get qmertyu 00:09:16 *typo 00:09:19 oerjan: I will fix that one too then. 00:09:34 (These are some I have on my computer.) 00:10:55 that 2,4,6,30 one i have this weird feeling it's been mentioned before 00:11:12 Maybe it has. But I forget what it means too 00:11:57 after 30, it seems to only skip 38 and is otherwise linear 00:17:12 I have read about different tests for a pseudo random number generator, of a few such as with dice and so on. Would a Fourier transform help at all? 00:36:48 -!- augur has joined. 00:56:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:06:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:57 what block cipher mode is used by OpenSSL cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256? 01:19:44 -!- augur has joined. 01:19:59 hm i suspect the anonymous ip who once cleaned up IINC was me 01:20:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:22:41 apparently it is "TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256" 01:22:57 it's too much to expect that all the CBC modes should have "CBC" in the unique id 01:36:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has left ("Leaving"). 01:53:28 ^bf ] 01:53:28 Mismatched []. 02:05:04 ~metar KBOS 02:05:11 aww 02:05:27 well anyway we're up to +SN now 02:09:17 why does googling -4^(1/4) produce 822,000 porn links and nothing else 02:29:58 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:47:08 kmc: Maybe you need an equal sign afterward; did you try that? 02:48:22 Have anyone else in here ever using LodePNG? 02:49:03 (If so, in C or C++?) 02:54:53 `run echo test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]]]]]][)[H]][33H]' 02:54:59 fs 02:55:19 excellent 03:17:44 If all of the channels of VGM are enabled then how many channels will there be? 03:35:45 -!- monqy has joined. 03:40:43 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 03:43:04 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 03:45:03 Sgeo: so basically it assumes it's a time so far back in the past that it can't compute the difference? 03:45:15 "eons ago" 03:52:39 ^list 03:57:33 `run echo -n test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]][1)[)[)$--%0[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][][))$11~<<~:(~:<]])[))(($3~)<(]]]]]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]][)[H]][33H] ' 03:57:35 t 03:57:44 `run echo -n anothertest | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]][1)[)[)$--%0[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][][))$11~<<~:(~:<]])[))(($3~)<(]]]]]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][48H])~!]]]]][)[H]][33H] ' 03:57:46 t 03:57:52 excellent 03:58:38 `mlist 03:58:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mlist: not found 03:58:41 (that was ,[>,]<. btw) 03:58:42 `hlist 03:58:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hlist: not found 03:58:46 Sgeo: `slist 03:58:50 `slist 03:58:51 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:59:28 hm... 03:59:49 `run ls *list 03:59:51 ​/bin/ls: cannot access *list: No such file or directory \ /bin/ls: cannot access *list: No such file or directory 03:59:56 `run ls bin/*list 03:59:58 bin/list \ bin/makelist \ bin/olist \ bin/slist 04:00:07 `cat bin/makelist 04:00:09 echo 'tail -n +2 $0 | xargs echo; exit 0' >$1;chmod +x $1 04:08:24 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:09:16 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:13:13 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:15:15 welcome back?? 04:16:02 ???????????? 04:16:15 ¿ 04:17:15 1 ft of snow accumulation and no sign of it slowing down 04:19:09 It turns out shachaf.net expired in Oct 04:19:18 :( 04:19:29 Hardly :( 04:19:32 I have it now! 04:19:53 oh, you didn't before? 04:19:57 Nope. 04:20:00 conchafulations! 04:20:02 I had that jumble of letters. 04:20:19 Now I have to become an ISP, right? 04:21:18 The maximum channels in a VGM file using all chips must be a lot; especially since most of them can be doubled. Even the OPL4 alone supports 42 channels (I think it does). 04:21:59 If you do, can I connect though you? Bound to be more reliable than Virgin Media... 04:27:55 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:28:37 can you get shach.af 04:29:03 -!- aloril has joined. 04:29:12 Yes, but it's $100/year or something. 04:29:18 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:38:10 How much money do you want to pay for it? 04:42:24 Presumably less than $100/year 04:42:45 Apparently I can get it for $78/year. 04:42:49 100$/year seems nicer to write since the unit is really $/year and nice to have the unit all together like that 04:44:35 * oerjan prepares to watch Sgeo apply that to parentheses 04:45:07 helloerjan 04:45:11 welcoerjan back? 04:46:19 have i been gone? 04:46:45 Yes, for the last day or something? 04:46:45 ok i _was_ making food for a few minutes 04:46:51 wat. 04:47:05 /whoerjanis 05:19:28 shachaf: it's not snowing in CA is it 05:19:39 Nope. 05:19:58 It was ~12° and sunny today. 05:22:49 C or F? 05:22:59 or... R 05:23:03 C 05:23:34 Also that's a TILDE, not a HYPHEN-MINUS. 05:25:36 monqy: do you understand adjunctions 05:25:44 "i dont have much intuition for them..........." 05:27:24 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:29:00 hyphen-tilde 05:29:54 kmc: is dnscurve "the future" 05:31:28 i... don't know 05:31:42 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:31:54 does 'future' here mean 'actual future' or 'epcot' 05:32:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:32:07 a@wn epcot 05:32:08 @wn epcot 05:32:09 No match for "epcot". 05:33:49 it's the "70s vision of the year 2000" theme park at disney world 05:56:10 `slist 05:56:12 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 05:57:14 Sgeo: By the way am I on the pbfcomics.com update list? 05:57:18 You didn't notify me. 05:57:55 `run echo more test | fueue ')[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~[[49 33H])[))$12~[:]<<$4~~~<[)$--1[$8~)$4<[)$$6-%0[)]]<]~)~:~]~[!~)~~[)[)$--1[)~~~[)$4~[~):~~[~:~)~[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~]<~]<~<]$3~[)$~~~%~~)]<~(~~<]~~<<~[0]]<<<:]]]<<[1)]]~[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~[[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][50 33H])~!]]]]][))$11~<<~:(~:<][)[[48 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]' 05:57:57 more test 05:58:01 yay! 05:59:22 (that was +[,.] in yet a more primitive form) 06:01:12 (obviously "primitive" is something very different from "shorter") 06:01:52 shachaf, I don't check PBF. So no. 06:01:56 Thanks for telling me though 06:02:04 oerjan: are you eliminating instructions? 06:02:11 no. 06:02:30 by "primitive" i mean earlier in the parsing stage 06:02:41 Sgeo: Please put me on the PBF list. 06:02:58 There is no PBF list. There will never be a PBF list. 06:02:59 shachaf: thx 06:04:09 basically i am simulating the point just after parsing the ], while faking the final EOF read. 06:04:56 I use RSS. 06:05:03 `run echo 'tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit' > bin/pbflist; chmod +x bin/pbflist 06:05:03 or ! read if you use the +[,.]!more test convention 06:05:06 No output. 06:05:09 `run echo shachaf >> bin/pbflist 06:05:12 No output. 06:05:20 `run echo Sgeo >> bin/pbflist 06:05:23 No output. 06:05:24 `run echo quintopia >> bin/pbflist 06:05:28 No output. 06:05:29 `pbflist 06:05:30 shachaf Sgeo quintopia 06:05:50 * Sgeo does not mind being on the PBF list. But I will not be the one to trigger it. 06:06:05 `supermegalist 06:06:06 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: supermegalist: not found 06:06:07 help??? 06:06:38 `run echo 'tail -n+2 "$0" | xargs; exit' > bin/emptylist; chmod +x bin/emptylist 06:06:41 No output. 06:06:49 `run cp bin/{empty,supermega}list 06:06:53 No output. 06:06:57 `run echo shachaf >> bin/supermegalist 06:07:01 No output. 06:07:52 `run mv bin/{supermega,sm}list 06:07:56 No output. 06:08:05 `run echo $'monqy\nelliott' >> bin/smlist 06:08:08 No output. 06:08:09 `smlist 06:08:11 shachaf monqy elliott 06:08:22 unfortunately super mega has not updated 06:08:22 `emptylist 06:08:24 No output. 06:08:35 monqy: sry 06:09:24 monqy: should i get a odmaininame in afghanistan 06:10:00 shacha.af 06:10:38 shacha.fi 06:14:07 monqy: you talk like super mega 06:14:16 do I 06:14:37 yes!!!!!!! 06:15:19 super mega resonates with me deeply at a personal level 06:15:24 -!- augur has joined. 06:35:18 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:35:23 -!- DH____ has joined. 06:43:17 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 06:45:38 `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~]][)~~[)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!][]!]!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<: 06:45:42 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 06:45:50 argh 06:46:53 just a little too long 06:48:12 `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)~~[)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!][]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] ' 06:48:14 also test \ ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ 06:48:21 darn 07:00:37 `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$7--1]][~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] ' 07:00:38 b 07:00:45 yay! 07:04:18 `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][))(($3~)<(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$$6-%0]][~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] ' 07:04:20 ​` 07:04:26 good, good 07:07:20 monqy: why do subtyping people say covariant instead of monotonic 07:07:33 "wouldnt that be a more obvious" name 07:07:33 `run echo also test | fueue '):[)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$--%0]][~~)<~~~(]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[~~~~<)[)))~$([[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][]]~]][)~~[~:~~~)<[)~~[)$--1[)~]<~~<)<[)$%0]][):]~]][)[[50 33H])~[)[H]]~~!]!]!]!]!]!][[0]:[[0]<:[[0]<:]][49 33H])~!][48 33H] ' 07:07:35 l 07:09:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 07:09:58 shachaf: probably they sometimes say monotonic/antimonotonic? but i don't know "why" they say covariant/contravariant 07:10:04 "just a words" 07:10:37 imo the category theory words should be monotonic too............ 07:10:42 everyone knows what that means 07:10:51 and covariant/contravariant are confusing 07:10:57 they both start with co!!!! 07:14:47 monqy: does "monotone functor"/ "monotonic functor" mean anything in category theory 07:16:44 idk 07:17:29 "oopse maybe there is??" 07:18:16 "You have a problem and decide to use threads. have two Now problems. you" 07:30:26 * pikhq reaches new levels of laziness... 07:30:54 IRC from bed is a very different experience. 07:30:59 Profoundly, profoundly lazy. 07:31:04 it sounds uncomfortable 07:31:34 Nah. 07:31:52 Wireless keyboard to my computer that's a mere few feet away. 07:31:59 It's just damned lazy. 07:32:59 Tiny bit hard to read though. 07:33:43 I'm pretty sure I need to get an eye appointment done sometime, though, so... 07:34:00 My refractive error has changed somewhat. 07:35:18 my previous apartment was slightly tiny 07:35:41 so my bed was my kitchen table and my computer chair and also everything else 07:36:27 now i don't even have a computer in the bed*room* :( 07:36:54 Why, the bedroom's the only space that is my own. 07:37:13 do you live with someone? 07:37:23 Mother's basement. 07:37:26 my bedroom isn't really mine either :( 07:37:57 i have a bedroom but i sleep in a little side-room on the floor 07:38:31 why 07:38:43 One of these days, I will move out, and it will be delightful. 07:38:43 better ventillation 07:39:34 i always irc from 07:39:35 bed 07:39:38 so last night i realized how to solve a problem with an article. then i slept for 9 hours. i have no idea what the solution was. 07:39:39 i am doing it now 07:39:44 Though probably not alone per se; it would seem most likely, given life, that it'd just be me moving in with my girlfriend. 07:40:12 do realize you will not have a bedroom then. 07:40:39 Not to myself, no. 07:40:44 oklopol: The solution was: sleep for 9 hours. 07:40:49 it's like living with your mother but she sleeps in your bed and occasionally asks that you help with the cooking. 07:41:11 Not quite 07:41:42 shachaf: oh that's actually a good point. maybe i should consider thinking about the problem instead of trying to remember last night. 07:42:08 i made a good point? 07:42:08 oops 07:42:15 whoopsies 07:43:08 For starters, my mom is not quite nerdy enough to be video chatting with me while playing a video game. :P 07:43:59 yes and the sex is usually much less awkward 07:44:08 Profoundly. 07:44:09 http://web.mit.edu/jgross/Public/brahm-lullaby-quirrel.mp3 07:44:52 Too bearable 07:44:54 Mechanics are also rather different, I imagine, but that's just my particular life circumstances being strange. 07:45:20 what do you mean 07:45:40 Sgeo: i'm starting to feel drowsy 07:45:46 She's trans. *Pretty* sure my mom isn't. :P 07:46:24 she, so guy -> girl? 07:46:33 Yuh. 07:46:34 pikhq: you should check that. your mom i mean. 07:46:53 quintopia: :P 07:47:03 my ex had a trans girlfriend for a while 07:47:25 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:47:47 or maybe not girlfriend and more like friend. 07:47:49 Other way 'round would be a boyfriend. *shrug* 07:48:47 and maybe not friend and more like acquaintance. 07:49:46 girlacquaintance 07:49:55 ^ 07:50:22 I don't like wireless computer so I have the keyboard, mouse, internet, display, printer, etc, is wired. 07:50:45 The router supports wireless but that is used to connect my brother's computer; my own is wired to the router. 07:53:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:55:14 Do you know when the next Kaiji anime season is being released with subtitles? 07:55:34 zzo38: which comic lists do you want to be on 07:57:21 shachaf: Akagi, and Kaiji. 07:57:21 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:02:23 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:16:41 What is your opinions on neutral monism? 08:17:47 i agree with it 08:18:58 I'm a materialist 08:19:18 (or, arguable, some other term that encompasses the fact that energy does exist) 08:20:48 Of course energy exists but it is not necessarily fundamental. (Or is that not what you mean by "energy"?) 08:22:32 "sociologists have studied [MissingNo.'s] impact on players." 08:22:45 zzo38, by energy I mean the sort of energy that the Sun emits 08:23:11 Sgeo: So same as I mean, the energy described by physics. 08:23:20 Not the word used as a metaphor for spirit by people who misunderstand science and wonder "where does the energy go when someone dies" 08:25:32 "It really says something about Pokémon fans that they took what is a potentially game-ruining glitch and used it as a shortcut to level up their Pokémon," 08:27:32 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:38:17 `slist 08:38:21 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:40:14 Sgeo: That's still philosophical materialism. 08:40:32 "Materialism" is more-or-less the standpoint that physics governs all. 08:40:46 That's not how it'd be phrased usually, but that gets the sense of it better. 08:40:51 Ok 08:41:41 Physics is made of mathematics. 08:42:03 Very much so. 08:42:18 What, Tegmark-style? 08:42:36 What is Tegmark-style? 08:42:44 Hmm, does a Tegmark multiverse go against materialism? 08:43:04 I do not know enough about the implications of that to answer. 08:43:30 (I know what you refer to, I just don't know the full implications to a degree I could answer) 08:45:03 OK, I see what Tegmark classification is. 08:45:11 http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/multiverse.jpg 08:45:16 In particular level 4 08:46:01 I looked it up in Wikipedia and it is something same as what I have read in a magazine article once. 09:00:48 -!- hover has joined. 09:01:31 -!- hover has left. 09:40:24 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:42:24 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 10:31:54 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:33:49 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de). 10:34:52 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 10:35:30 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Client Quit). 10:35:53 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 10:38:20 -!- ogrom has joined. 10:50:33 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 10:54:43 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 11:16:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:34:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:41:26 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 11:47:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:24:34 Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural 12:26:50 how much heat can a human handle? 12:27:40 100 celsius is just fine even with high humidity, but if you put something in 200 celsius it's black after 20 minutes 12:28:24 well perhaps 20 minutes in high humidity 100 celsius is also dangerous, we don't have a very good sauna here so my intuition is not very calibrated. 12:40:06 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:41:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:48:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:58:46 I think there is some research on that. 13:00:20 It's like 67 °C in the sauna in our building, though. 13:01:38 Aww where's jconn? 13:01:41 ) 'hi' 13:02:01 jconn is also not in #jsoftware 13:05:00 fungot: You know about bots, any clues? 13:05:00 fizzie: they say that eggs, pancakes and juice are just a touch. 13:05:21 Yeah, I don't think that really helps. 13:20:49 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21559589/databases.png 13:36:05 "Getting the character (byte) at position N:" 13:36:09 * Sgeo facepalms 13:40:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:42:33 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:47:33 * Sgeo is now reading about a different Io language 13:49:30 12:24:33 Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural 13:49:31 elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:49:33 so, haskell 13:55:07 @tell oerjan re: * oerjan is still annoyed by whoever replaced his carefully crafted ASCII graph without crossing edges with a picture with crossing edges, even if it's prettier graphics 13:55:07 Consider it noted. 13:55:12 @tell oerjan http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Eodermdrome&diff=22229&oldid=14568 13:55:12 Consider it noted. 14:13:16 By changing Io's stdlib, could I make it such that non-name-colliding monkeypatching is possible? 14:13:21 * Sgeo thinks so 14:13:56 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 14:17:48 -!- carado has joined. 14:19:42 http://web.media.mit.edu/~lieber/Lieberary/OOP/Act-1/Concurrent-OOP-in-Act-1.html makes references to old languages. I think it's old 14:20:44 -!- Zuu has joined. 14:40:02 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:40:04 .... at least one other person in #yfl has toyed with Atomo 14:40:08 I think I feel at home 14:53:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:56:52 -!- Zuu has left ("Leaving"). 15:50:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:27:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:33:34 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:47:48 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:00:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:14:36 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:14:49 traceroute 216.81.59.173 17:15:20 hi 17:16:07 What an interesting route 17:28:41 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 17:33:34 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what kmc thinks about Io. It reminds me vaguely of Kernel 17:38:52 -!- jconn has joined. 17:53:22 ) 'yay' 17:53:22 Sgeo: yay 17:53:49 ... 17:53:57 PietBot uses ) 17:54:06 Saying that, PietBot is dead 17:55:29 ) help 17:55:29 Taneb: |value error: help 17:55:33 ) 7 17:55:33 Taneb: 7 17:55:36 ) pi 17:55:37 Taneb: |value error: pi 17:55:41 ) o.1 17:55:41 ) 'what' 17:55:41 Sgeo: 3.14159 17:55:42 Taneb: what 17:55:56 ) o.2 17:55:57 Taneb: 6.28319 17:56:02 ) o.0 17:56:02 Taneb: 0 17:56:05 ) p.1 17:56:06 Taneb: |domain error 17:56:06 Taneb: | p.1 17:56:10 ) e.1 17:56:10 Taneb: 1 17:56:13 ) e.2 17:56:13 Taneb: 1 17:56:43 ) ^1 17:56:44 Sgeo: 2.71828 17:57:10 ) ^0 17:57:10 Sgeo: 1 17:57:35 ) 0^0 17:57:36 Sgeo: 1 17:57:43 ) 3+5 17:57:43 Taneb: 8 17:57:52 ) 1*28*5 17:57:53 Taneb: 140 17:57:54 ) 1*2+3 17:57:55 Sgeo: 5 17:58:06 ) 2*3+4 17:58:06 Sgeo: 14 18:00:23 -!- boily has joined. 18:00:27 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:02:15 ) /:~ 'Hi boily' 18:02:16 Sgeo: Hbiiloy 18:02:40 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 18:04:41 hillbilly 18:06:57 hi! 18:07:01 just a moment... 18:07:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 18:07:13 -!- boily has joined. 18:07:45 show that I'm an IRC addict now, I guess. came in to work on a saturday, absentmindedly start weechat in screen. 18:08:32 Sgeo: hi! weren't you Adaing instead of Jing? 18:08:45 elliott: I ain't no hillbilly. much too cold to be one. 18:10:06 I'm Ioing now 18:10:07 kind of 18:10:18 `? sgeolang 18:10:20 sgeolang? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:11:01 `learn sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 18:11:05 I knew that. 18:12:09 Unless it's Cecil 18:12:11 Or the other Io 18:12:20 Or maybe Diesel. Does Diesel still exist? 18:12:31 It's been a while since I broke my brain failing to understand gBeta 18:13:42 there are multiple ioes? 18:14:53 yes 18:16:45 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:18:01 Ok, I like Io's exception stuff 18:18:19 pretty cool to just wrap something in try and it returns an exception if there was.... wait 18:18:58 which io are you looking at 18:19:00 is it the continuation one 18:19:20 No 18:19:32 That's what I meant by the "other" Io though 18:27:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:27:08 -!- DH____ has joined. 18:29:20 There exists at least one relatively simple number system with single radix such that 1111 + 1100 = 1011 18:29:34 No there isn't 18:29:46 (well, there may be) 18:29:56 (just I've made a mistake that means that I'm wrong) 18:30:28 11011 + 11000 = 10011 18:37:59 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 18:39:53 i 'love' reading copy-pasted code 18:40:01 it's like one of those 'spot the differences' picture puzzles 18:44:11 I have been guilty of copy/pasted code 18:44:17 Including in that Tcl code I wrote 18:44:28 Probably why Transcriptic never talked to me again :'( 19:10:11 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:18:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:27:39 -!- monqy has joined. 19:45:34 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:45:39 -!- DH____ has joined. 20:18:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:19:37 @messages 20:19:38 elliott said 6h 24m 32s ago: re: * oerjan is still annoyed by whoever replaced his carefully crafted ASCII graph without crossing edges with a picture with crossing edges, even if it's prettier 20:19:38 graphics 20:19:38 elliott said 6h 24m 26s ago: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Eodermdrome&diff=22229&oldid=14568 20:19:51 elliott: yeah i already checked 20:21:16 oerjan: I've complained about the edge-crossings-for-a-planar-graph problem before. I wonder if it's automagically generated. 20:22:14 i assume timwi just put it into some graph visualizer 20:23:30 from the ascii graph i made, it was almost trivial to read out all the properties listed. 20:24:52 just revert it 20:25:09 but it _is_ prettier graphics too :( 20:25:36 Clearly you must both do it in your layout but with prettier graphics. 20:31:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:31:53 but timwi obviously didn't upload it in an easily editable format 20:32:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:33:08 my brain protests against learning a drawing program for this. 20:33:30 (MS Paint's quality was obviously inadequate, i tried.) 20:34:10 @messages? 20:34:11 Sorry, no messages today. 20:34:32 oerjan: use html tables 20:34:33 and my memories of getting letters placed just right in xfig are not positive. 20:34:37 and css hacks 20:34:42 or something 20:35:07 elliott: i don't actually know those either. you can do line drawing? 20:35:45 with enough hacks you can do anything! 20:35:50 unfortunately without enough hacks, you can't do anything. 20:36:09 well what my brain protests against is really anything that isn't just point and click. 20:38:00 open an on-screen keyboard 20:39:00 i mean point and click to get lines to start and end in the right place. and also to adjust automatically when i move the boxes. actually xfig _could_ do that... too bad i'm on windows now. 20:39:03 imo learning the basics of using inkscape was a good time investment 20:39:25 oerjan: There are point-and-click things online. Like draw.io or something. 20:39:40 xfig sucks 20:39:58 inkscape may suck on windows / mac though 20:40:04 it is pretty usable on linux 20:40:26 kmc: please don't discuss this subject in ways that discourage me further. thank you. 20:41:29 * oerjan finds winfig 20:42:26 k 20:42:50 or just pirate illustrator 20:43:22 I didn't see a reasonable argument against any of the things like draw.io that you can just point a browser at and draw. 20:43:39 oerjan: many of the microsoft office programs can do that; powerpoint is probably the best at it that's relatively cheap 20:43:45 (visio is better but it's mindboggingly expensive) 20:43:45 actually you can pirate Adobe Creative Suite CS2 from Adobe's own website 20:43:55 kmc: yeah but you're not supposed to 20:44:05 that's why i said "pirate" and not "legally download" 20:44:09 i don't have any office programs 20:44:59 what you really need is a vector drawing program 20:45:15 inkscape's the best known, I think, but I don't know much about it 20:45:17 No, you need a graph drawing program, of which there are quite a few. 20:46:16 oh, right 20:46:25 The one in draw.io lets you make one node, then draw a connection from it to empty space, and when you release it, it creates a duplicate of the node you started from, meaning you get to specify the shape and size you want just once. 20:46:27 I don't actually know what oerjan's problem is, because I haven't checked scrollback 20:46:37 (Then you double-click and edit the label, and that's about it.) 20:46:44 before when I joined, I mean 20:46:53 ais523: i want to fix the eodermdrome initial graph drawing 20:47:02 ah right 20:47:29 hm, so if you care about efficiency, ST actually mixes two *different* concerns that require rank-2 to be safe... 20:47:31 draw.io doesn't load. 20:48:30 It works fine for me, which admittedly isn't helpful. (I'm twiddling together a graph there at the moment, just for the funs.) 20:48:58 Isn't there the "DOT" graph visualization? 20:49:38 fizzie: oh it worked when i changed https to http in the google link 20:50:03 zzo38: yes, it's okay if you want to put no effort into the layout, but it often does things stupidly and there aren't good tools for adjusting it 20:50:07 not that i've found anyway 20:51:21 I'm an idiot. I just forced myself into a position where I have to explain monads to C# people 20:51:22 kmc: It comes with a tool. Oh, you said "good tools". Never mind, then. 20:52:47 sgeo can you explain monads to me 20:56:49 which tool does it come with? 20:56:56 kmc: dotty. 20:57:23 monqy, this is about that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EF0VTs9Dc 20:57:36 oerjan: Something like https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm.png for example would follow your layout but with boxes. 20:57:43 c00kiemon5ter: so i hear 21:00:05 fizzie: almost perfect, but would it be hard to get the letters slightly lower down in the boxes? 21:00:06 "Sgeo please say another word for monad (if not atom,particle mean)" 21:00:29 also ideally -t-h- should be a straight line, i think 21:00:33 oerjan: Curiously enough, they are in the interface; PNG export made them be in the current stupid place. I'll try some other export. 21:00:41 oerjan: Though now that I look at your ASCII graph, I can't help noticing there's no edge between r and o. 21:00:54 Oh, I missed it. 21:01:00 It was that goes-around-the-whole-thing one. 21:01:23 right, it seemed impossible not to have one of those 21:04:02 Sgeo: there are any number of monad tutorials you could link them to… 21:04:22 I should do that 21:05:24 fizzie: it seems like the "y" is perfectly placed, but the rest gets skewed because of missing under or extra over parts 21:07:23 oerjan: I think it has just put the letter baselines in the middle of the box. I'll see if something can be done. Is https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm2.png layoutwise okay, though? 21:08:48 has there been any feedback on my omnipotent BF Joust program? or the one before? 21:08:58 I even went and wrote them up, now I want someone to comment on them >:( 21:09:05 Linky? 21:09:11 (For the lazy) 21:09:13 aka me 21:09:57 oerjan: Last I looked at Timwi's version, it seemed to me that with very few edits it would've made an edge-crossing-free graph with somewhat more equal edge lengths. (If only it were sensibly editable.) 21:09:57 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#2013 21:10:57 fizzie: yes i noticed you didn't need too many changes, although i think you'd force a long curve then too 21:11:13 between the o and r 21:11:22 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:12:13 fizzie: as for your layout it's okay but i'd ideally like the placement to be more symmetric along each major line. 21:12:34 ais523, I don't understand the terminology well enough :( 21:13:05 oerjan: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm3.png has letters in a slightly more reasonable positions (it's from the SVG export), though arguably now they're a little too low. 21:13:20 Sgeo: well that entire page is about explaining it, but I can talk you through it myself if you ask questions 21:13:48 meh, I'll read it later 21:13:56 My eye hurts a little from lack of sleep 21:14:55 < move the tape pointer away from the opponent 21:14:55 > move the tape pointer toward the opponent 21:14:57 Not in scope: `move' 21:14:57 Perhaps you meant `mode' (imported from Text.PrettyPr... 21:15:24 Imagine if < and > moved away and from the opponent's current memory pointer, rather than goal 21:15:56 How would they behave when the two players are in the same place 21:16:27 I don't know! 21:16:32 Both players die 21:16:41 that sounds like a good way to make it impossible for anyone to win 21:16:42 Don't move? 21:17:07 traceroute 216.81.59.173 :-) 21:17:09 I think you have to understand BF Joust to propose random changes to it and have them make sense 21:17:15 impomatic: what's special about that IP? 21:17:16 Could be toward/away from enemy goal in that case. Not a good solution, but there will be some implications 21:17:39 ais523: trace it and you'll see :-P 21:17:47 Hello folks 21:18:04 I guess I can advertise my new BF Joust program at impomatic too, now he's here 21:18:31 fizzie: i guess it's a _bit_ better. can you move the t-h more vertically like the j-x and the v more horizontally like the q? ideally i'd like the l-a-z-y-d to be symmetrically placed between the e and o, but it might be hard to fit with the rest on the right 21:18:46 impomatic: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#2013 21:19:04 oerjan: I had made an alternative, more "griddy" look of https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm4.png before you said that. 21:19:04 ais523: Definitely, looking now :-) 21:19:40 impomatic, wtf 21:19:45 how 21:19:47 oh 21:19:59 I could make that one a bit more symmetric. 21:20:25 fizzie: hm yes if you move l-a-z-y-d in that a bit, it would look nice in a different way. 21:20:42 i think. 21:23:20 oerjan: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm5.png has l-a-z-y-d symmetric w.r.t. e/o, though I did fiddle with the o-w-n-f-o loop a bit too. 21:23:42 Sgeo: there are any number of monad tutorials you could link them to… <-- i suddenly wonder if there's a monad tutorial for stoners 21:27:25 * ais523 defines the "any number" as the number of currently existing monad tutorials; it changes over time 21:27:47 fizzie: i say you upload that one :) 21:28:26 * impomatic wonders if it's possible to mimic space_hotel's decoy to confuse omnipotence :-P 21:28:46 I suppose I will need to pngcrunch it, because that has been done to the existing file too. 21:29:28 Also it currently has a transparent background, but maybe that is not a problem. 21:29:58 we'll have to check that 21:30:46 the current graph is on a white background anyway 21:31:10 i dunno if there are skins that make it different 21:34:27 and covariant/contravariant are confusing <-- just use "variant" and "ntravariant" hth 21:35:06 good moerjaning 21:35:24 the hi 21:35:24 It is (hopefully) done. Also made the version on the page to be the native size now that it's somewhat smaller overall; though it's still a bit bigger than what it was before. 21:36:22 um i thought it looked smaller. 21:36:35 than timwi's that is. 21:36:49 oerjan: Yes, but the old one was with |300px on the page. 21:37:24 oh right 21:37:39 i was looking at an old diff, which confused me 21:37:50 (the picture changed but not the page) 21:38:17 I don't know if the official way would've been to upload a different picture, and use that. 21:38:28 Since it's not really a new "version" of the previous picture. 21:38:28 fizzie: it's been a pleasure working with you sir (cackles madly) 21:38:59 (the work others do for you is the best) 21:39:17 (Also maybe the recommended way working with Mediawiki would've been to insert the SVG version and let it create the rasterizations? I don't know. It's all so multimedia these days.) 21:39:43 fizzie: oh right it probably is. 21:39:50 ais523 probably knows better. 21:40:13 MediaWiki comes with optional SVG rasterization, I don't know if Esolang has it instaled 21:40:15 *installed 21:40:24 if it does, you just upload the SVG file and everything just works 21:42:08 ais523: If it's installed, and you include an uploaded SVG image on a page, does it actually put a raster version on the page, or does it expect browsers these days to manage SVG? 21:43:02 it puts a raster version on the page 21:43:44 hm isn't it a bit bad that mediawiki historical article versions are shown with new versions of pictures? 21:45:03 probably that applies to templates too. 21:45:32 oerjan: indeed, it does 21:46:05 perhaps it would be even more confusing the other way. 21:46:17 [[".svg" is not a permitted file type. Permitted file types are png, gif, jpg, jpeg.]] I guess that's a no-go. (Well, less work for me.) 21:46:43 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 21:47:29 is there a way to link to the original editable version of a picture? 21:48:00 how do i enable svg 21:50:11 elliott: you need to install an extension, I think 21:50:20 also an SVG renderer 21:50:36 sounds like work 21:51:11 What's a good way to have email at my domain name? 21:51:39 you actually bought shach.af? 21:51:50 shachaf: a lot of registrars will run free email forwarding for you 21:51:52 that is the lazy way 21:52:06 The sooner I'm not dependent on my dad's money the better 21:53:59 Maybe I should get hachaf.net so I can have the emails s@hachaf.net and t@hachaf.net (for when people want to thank me). 21:54:08 the harder way is to hire or buy a mailserver, and point the domain name at the mailserver 21:54:22 that's what I did with nethack4.org 21:54:26 (which is a lots-of-things server) 21:54:35 (although mostly nethack 4) 21:56:54 The middling way is presumably then to buy a mail redirection service you can point your own domain to. (I'm sure there are some.) 21:57:40 ais523: Incidentally, does MediaWiki have a "git blame" style view? I remember seeing a thing like that in something, but it might've been Confluence or some-such. 21:57:54 fizzie: not by default 21:57:58 there's probably an extension that does it by now 21:58:00 when i was in high school i thought it great fun to run my own DNS and MX and such 21:58:09 now it all seems like a total pain 21:58:11 I don't run my own DNS 21:58:16 do run my own mailserver, though 21:58:36 i used djb approved software 21:58:37 for everything 21:58:50 djbdns, qmail, publicfile 21:58:59 on openbsd 21:59:10 i was one of the cool kids in high school for sure 21:59:26 kmc: did you use /package 22:00:02 yes 22:00:07 fizzie: what's git blame? i found on wikipedia an option for a button that gives you much more readable diffs for confusing edits 22:00:12 is that djb's wacky init system that nobody else uses? 22:01:05 oerjan: The same as "svn annotate", it gives you a copy of the file with every line annotated with the revision (and committer) when it was last changed. 22:01:05 no 22:01:08 djb doesnt have an init system 22:01:14 there's daemontools that you can run as pid 1 if you do hackery 22:01:22 so not the same 22:02:09 by init system i meant not a replacement for /sbin/init but, like, a daemonizer 22:02:14 poor choice of words 22:02:17 anyway yes i used that thing 22:02:26 (wikEdDiff in the Gadget section, btw) 22:02:51 kmc: /package is his weirdo packaging system 22:03:16 oerjan: Not quite, no. It's (sometimes) useful when the question you have is "who's responsible for this piece of text". (Of course sometimes all it tells you is who fixed the commas in it.) 22:03:46 oerjan: the gadget things are written entirely in JS and CSS 22:04:10 Maybe I should get an SSL certificate. 22:04:13 in fact, there's a large amount of stuff done like that that would be better done server-side, because of the ratio of the number of people who can work on client-side extensions, and on server-side extensions 22:04:53 shachaf: http://www.startssl.com/ will give you one for free 22:05:21 anyway yes 22:05:31 you should run a HTTPS-only website with HSTS 22:05:37 If you can get one for free why do some people charge lots of money for them? 22:05:44 and only allow RC4 and GCM-mode AES 22:05:48 You don't get all that much for free from StartSSL. 22:05:49 i don't know 22:05:53 ais523: i think i saw someone desiring to merge that diff gadget into mediawiki proper, but it would require rewriting it in PHP. or maybe it was something else. 22:05:55 wildcard certs is one 22:06:08 StartSSL will give you a cert that is good for www.shachaf.net and shachaf.net but not *.shachaf.net 22:06:15 you can however request another one with s/www/whatever/ 22:06:20 s/desiring to/desiring that someone/ 22:06:26 wildcard certs are a scam 22:06:33 It also won't give you a cert that's good for www.shachaf.net, shachaf.net and servername.shachaf.net at the same time. 22:06:38 there's no technical reason why they cost a lot more than specific certs 22:06:58 ais523: s/^wildcard // 22:07:00 but the certificate companies can get away with charging more for them, so they do 22:07:02 elliott: well yes 22:07:07 it's all, just, bits, man 22:07:11 a small fee to allow for verification cost would be reasonable 22:07:16 do you consider anything where pricing is set demand-side to be a 'scam' 22:07:16 but they charge more than that /and/ they don't verify :) 22:08:40 As for getting multiple certificates for your different names, you need to use a not-supported-everywhere SSL/TLS extension (SNI) in order to use those with a single IP address. 22:09:03 How unsupported? 22:09:08 why's that? 22:09:12 "As of November 2012, the only major user bases whose browsers do not support SNI appear to be users of Internet Explorer 8 or below on Windows XP and versions of Java before 1.7 on any operating system." 22:09:24 As of November 2012, the only major user bases whose browsers do not support SNI appear to be users of Internet Explorer 8 or below on Windows XP and versions of Java before 1.7 on any operating system. 22:09:28 Ah. 22:09:36 oh server name whatever 22:09:43 because SSL setup happens before a HTTP Host: header is sent, right 22:09:49 Right. 22:10:17 Admittedly it *is* quite widely supported by now. 22:10:46 Also you don't get anything else than an email address inserted into the free StartSSL certificate. 22:10:56 On the other hand, nobody will look at the certificate contents ever either, so... 22:10:56 Language idea: A language where you write CPS-style code manually, but the syntax of the language is such that it feels natural <-- that's essentially levin's IO (not the modern language called IO) 22:12:41 fizzie: the "or below" is redundant, since IE >= 9 doesn't work on XP. 22:12:44 oerjan: aka do notation 22:12:51 elliott: good idea or bad idea? I wanted to restart Chromium without losing my currently opened tabs 22:12:57 so I did killall -SEGV chromium-browser 22:13:03 so it would think it had crashed, and try to recover 22:13:03 ais523: I do killall -9 chromium 22:13:06 elliott: hm is that writing it manually though? 22:13:08 oerjan: I suppose then the "8" is redundant too. 22:13:18 oerjan: seems like a fairly ill-defined notion 22:13:19 indeed. 22:13:26 oerjan: do is at least the "most general" CPS notation 22:13:30 mother of all monads etc. 22:14:11 elliott: well ok >>= is CPS, so i guess. 22:14:43 oerjan: right, and do notation never uses "return" 22:14:46 it is just (>>=) 22:14:50 (+ fail, but for irrelevant reasons) 22:14:56 (+ (>>), but that's obviously irrelevant also) 22:15:00 do notation is writing CPS manually. 22:15:06 It's not terribly expensive to go through StartSSL's identity validation, after which you can generate as many certificates as you like -- with expiration dates up to two years in the future -- during the 350 days that it's valid, and get your own name on them. (Apparently it's $60 now; I think it used to be cheaper.) 22:15:12 i suspect Java 1.7 isn't supported on XP either, i keep getting patches for 1.6 and no suggestion to upgrade. 22:15:20 shachaf: That's the point. 22:15:54 elliott: Right. I'm agreeing with you(/whoever said it). 22:16:32 oerjan: my understanding is that the continuation IO language defines ; to basically be a pass-a-continuation lambda, right? 22:16:39 that's how I see do notation 22:16:46 (except you write the lambda's parameter a statement early) 22:16:57 so I did killall -SEGV chromium-browser <-- well did it work? 22:17:02 oerjan: yes 22:17:08 do { foo -> x; bar -> y; return z } -- I can imagine this as a possible alternate do notation syntax 22:17:14 it'd be nice if there was a less obscure way to do that 22:17:17 where you have lambda syntax (-> var; body) 22:17:24 that's right-associative 22:17:28 What about idiom brackets? 22:17:31 That's a kind of CPS. 22:17:33 so you can see that's literally writing CPS, the "do" part now does nothing 22:17:38 Except not really. 22:17:55 There's always the monad-embed sort of CPSing. 22:17:59 shachaf: Applicatives are do notation where you never reference any of the variables you bind until the last statement. 22:18:16 elliott: IO syntax is iirc f x y -> var ; g z ... 22:18:16 elliott: Right. 22:18:16 More or less. 22:18:20 Well... 22:18:25 And also the last statement is return. 22:18:45 where -> vars ; ... is a continuation. 22:19:02 do notation isn't strictly CPS. 22:19:05 But it's pretty close. 22:20:02 (and the -> vars is optional if the continuation takes no arguments) 22:21:24 oerjan: so it's what I said 22:21:31 you can just change the tokens and get 22:21:34 f x y \ var -> g z ... 22:21:35 etc. 22:21:47 i guess the difference with IO is you only have m () values, not m a) 22:21:50 *-) 22:21:55 *Io 22:22:01 so if you accept that Io is writing continuations "manually" and "directly" as can be 22:22:08 the only leap to do notation is that you move where the variable is bound 22:22:19 which IMO is completely syntactic enough to still be direct 22:24:13 you need f x y $ \ var -> g z ... to get syntactically correct haskell though 22:25:15 oerjan: yes. but that's just an issue of operator precedence, really 22:25:29 consider $ \ as one token if you like 22:26:44 well it's an issue of those right-gobbling expression forms not being acceptable directly as arguments to functions, only operators. but minor difference. 22:26:53 right 22:29:11 how much heat can a human handle? <-- i think they pretty much settled that at that fateful "sports" event, no? 22:29:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sauna_Championships 22:30:04 i guess the _dry_ case may still be open, hth 22:31:24 two nicks and both idle 22:32:07 or wait is high humidity supposedly worse 22:32:19 i guess i'll leave the science to the finns. 22:32:57 Humidity makes sweating less effective 22:33:45 * Sgeo is now reading about a different Io language <-- hey no fair finding the solution before i tell you 22:34:08 oerjan: I knew he said that all along and was hiding it from you 22:34:32 IT'S NOT FAIR 22:35:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:55 By changing Io's stdlib, could I make it such that non-name-colliding monkeypatching is possible? <-- is hygienic monkeypatching a known term, please say yes 22:36:15 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 22:36:49 sadly google search is not optimistic 22:37:14 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:39:07 Do Scala implicit conversions count? 22:40:10 traceroute 216.81.59.173 22:40:36 had to add -m 100 (actually 64) 22:40:50 I originally thought that nortti intended to type that into console to do stuff 22:40:56 When impomatic said it is when I tried it 22:40:57 Same 22:41:22 My interesting traceroute comment referred to elliott's hi 22:41:39 when impomatic said it is when i pasted it into a terminal window, then forgot about it until i found nortti in the logs. 22:41:49 bash: traceroute: command not found 22:41:50 good route 22:42:27 might be under something administrative? 22:42:49 * oerjan doesn't remember what that prefix is 22:43:20 sbin? 22:43:27 that may be it 22:43:58 oerjan, oh, didn't realize there was more to it than the little I saw 22:44:01 sudo: traceroute: command not found 22:44:22 yeah without -m it got cut off early 22:45:46 elliott: it's not restricted here at nvg... 22:46:59 i just dont have it installed 22:47:10 TRAGEDY 22:48:04 never actually reached the 216.81.59.173 IP btw 22:48:43 ok so what is the thing 22:49:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 22:52:23 elliott: http://sprunge.us/dNgW 22:52:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:53:11 WARNING: it feels better to do it yourself with traceroute. 22:57:25 too late 22:57:36 sad trombone 23:01:56 "tracepath" is what I did it with. 23:02:05 It seems to have ended up being installed by default, unlike traceroute. 23:03:13 (ubuntu-standard depends on iputils-tracepath, but not on traceroute/inetutils-traceroute.) 23:45:59 oerjan: I had that graph editor open, so I clicked together also a straight-lines-only crossing-free version starting from the Timwi layout; I don't think it's æsthetically an improvement, but I'm sure it'd win in some metrics: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130209-eoderm8.png 23:48:45 ah 23:50:41 (It's also even more compact.) 23:52:32 Can you supply a non-planar graph to eodermdrone? 23:54:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:55:11 Sure, why not? 23:56:27 certainly 23:56:31 I don't think abcdeacebda is planar, for example 23:56:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:57:10 I was this || close to giving a much longer K_5. 23:57:15 (I suppose that's what it is?) 23:57:17 aka "eodermdrome" hth 23:57:35 Ooooh, I never knew *that*. 23:57:55 It's like onions upon onions. 23:57:57 I mean, layers. 23:58:50 ) '+';'-' @. 0 23:58:51 Sgeo: |domain error 23:58:51 Sgeo: | '+'; '-'@.0 23:59:56 ) '+`- @. 0 23:59:56 Sgeo: |open quote 23:59:56 Sgeo: | '+`- @. 0 23:59:56 Sgeo: | ^