< 1360108914 433783 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-242.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2**57885161 < 1360108916 89581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1360109531 262988 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1360109567 622515 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1360109718 183739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe PHP has a feature where it automatically converts l to 1 and O to 0 < 1360109752 636783 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :10+1 is probably ll in php < 1360109767 470994 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1360109798 606153 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is there some secret signal in the number of dots after each message < 1360109812 985226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ask monqy. < 1360109849 516576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were talking about putting 3 21-bit codepoints in every 64-bit word, and using the last bit to encode secret messages. < 1360109864 588302 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good ol' UTF-31. < 1360109866 346184 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1360109867 657724 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-63 < 1360109873 769969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS-2.625 < 1360109894 664205 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1360109894 849639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a version of "text" that actually uses this encoding. < 1360109897 751777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It passes a lot of the tests. < 1360109898 657103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parity bit obv. < 1360110078 783314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw someone implement binary literals in C with something like #define _I )*2+1 #define _O )*2 #define B8(x) (((((((((0 x) so that B8(_I _O _O _O _I _O _O _O) turns into (((((((((0)*2+1)*2)*2)*2)*2+1)*2)*2)*2) aka 136. < 1360110139 178620 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-242.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad C doesn't have 0b00110 literals < 1360110222 215887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, the preprocessor provides clearly an almost-as-nice replacement. < 1360110231 251881 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a *lot* nicer. < 1360110236 564550 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++11 has some stuff that allows you to write e.g. 00110_b if you define an operator"" _b to convert the literal < 1360110242 590314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(GCC of course has 0b010100 as an extension.) < 1360110290 578718 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1360110334 427838 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pity that's not ISO. < 1360110393 203077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be fancy, you can extend the above B8 macro by defining _OOOO, _OOOI, _OOIO, ..., _IIII and then you can have a nicely grouped B8(_IIOI _OOII). < 1360110423 660524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could just define 256 macros. < 1360110447 934874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 4294967296, for B32(). < 1360110457 533405 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, define 2^64. < 1360110495 972793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define B32(a, b, c, d), though, with 256 macros. < 1360110510 227760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could do that anyway. Bu1 31 ,s is much more annoying than 4. < 1360110682 603083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define a B32(a b c d) with 256 macros too, and then there are no commas. < 1360110719 329588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you still need whitespace, so it doesn't really save much. < 1360110802 858064 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1360111422 358084 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aren't hex literals good enough < 1360111464 708512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "good enough" < 1360111472 691718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough is good enough < 1360111520 781246 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :For representing bit patterns < 1360111542 68573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1360111571 365925 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying when you're programming control registers with bitfields that don't align with nybble boundaries < 1360111572 834181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't see THE PATTERNS if it's in hex. < 1360111584 587400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for representing nybble patterns < 1360111613 555695 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I see, say, E, that goes straight into 1110 in my head < 1360111640 225595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not you, it's the E talking < 1360111660 627560 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1360111663 50029 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: If you see a bitmap image in hex, does it appear as visually as it would when it were 0s and 1s? < 1360111665 512860 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you have to do is just listen < 1360111680 221371 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is it a 1-bit bitmap? < 1360111694 322974 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because for 256-colour or more, hex works better than binary =P < 1360111698 145737 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: and what of people who lack this power? I guess the true C programmer answer is that they're just drooling idiots who should never be let near a computer < 1360111709 808216 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's good for 16 colour too < 1360111713 324050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: It's a bitmap, of course it's 1-bit. < 1360111748 254492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a pixmap or whatnot. < 1360111766 648366 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tritmap < 1360111778 959958 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced tritmap < 1360111800 106783 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is light, 0 is nothing, T is antilight < 1360111830 61249 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse the polarity on the laser! < 1360111857 671510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can always #define B8(x) ((x&1)|((x>>2)&2)|((x>>4)&4)|...) and then use B8(001101100) for binary literals. (Better not forget the leading 0!) < 1360111902 87817 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick FreeFull what's the 19th bit of 783F5A4DC562465554807AD8C45D2863 < 1360111918 200613 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :least or most significant? < 1360111926 259178 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: 0 < 1360111928 647598 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle most significant < 1360111936 83152 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed from the left for some reason < 1360111939 394108 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Which base? :) < 1360111939 579131 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo 7 < 1360111939 911382 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me do it from the right < 1360111942 837494 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1360111963 766118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick kmc what's the 19th bit of 1111000001111110101101001001101110001010110001001000110010101010101010010000000011110101101100011000100010111010010100001100011 < 1360111965 338696 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 too < 1360111977 295563 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 1 < 1360111981 229938 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for kmc's < 1360111981 714228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 1 < 1360111992 912781 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, do you count the 0th bit too < 1360112001 231515 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you count the 0th, it's 1 < 1360112080 663922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we *conclusive* that it's either 0 or 1? < 1360112085 599677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No other options? < 1360112098 859509 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a 2. < 1360112108 87945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "1111000001111110101101001001101110001010110001001000110010101010101010010000000011110101101100011000100010111010010100001100011" !! 19 < 1360112110 222594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '1' < 1360112113 659067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this is getting to be too much to keep track of. < 1360112125 454980 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the committee votes compromise, the bit will be 0.5 < 1360112132 71722 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's from the left though < 1360112137 735948 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse "1111000001111110101101001001101110001010110001001000110010101010101010010000000011110101101100011000100010111010010100001100011" !! 19 < 1360112139 376694 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '1' < 1360112142 686318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview (base 2) "1111000001111110101101001001101110001010110001001000110010101010101010010000000011110101101100011000100010111010010100001100011" <&> view (bitAt 19) < 1360112145 108370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just True < 1360112145 790342 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers base -1
< 1360112150 136545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: True < 1360112161 123621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview (base 2) "783F5A4DC562465554807AD8C45D2863" <&> view (bitAt 19) < 1360112163 859351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1360112172 558869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview (base 16) "783F5A4DC562465554807AD8C45D2863" <&> view (bitAt 19) < 1360112174 724481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just True < 1360112181 645476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you said 19th bit, not bit 19. < 1360112187 436258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> preview (base 16) "783F5A4DC562465554807AD8C45D2863" <&> view (bitAt 18) < 1360112189 834931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just True < 1360112191 399694 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<&>) < 1360112192 538108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1360112194 822154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip fmap < 1360112198 43916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1360112206 92673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t preview < 1360112207 451564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MonadReader s m => Getting (First a) s t a b -> m (Maybe a) < 1360112219 23260 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stab < 1360112249 627454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, much better: < 1360112250 791973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "783F5A4DC562465554807AD8C45D2863" ^? base 16.bitAt 18 < 1360112252 867180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just True < 1360112259 617127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION = silly
< 1360112272 899776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty \x -> preview (base 16.bitAt 18) x < 1360112274 428901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Char] -> Maybe Bool < 1360112338 564003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: admit that's kind of nice!!!! < 1360112364 740140 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..4] . (+1) < 1360112366 527469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a0 -> b0' with actual type `[t0]' < 1360112375 478355 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1360112377 141527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1360112388 785812 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+1) . [1..4] < 1360112391 403115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4,5] < 1360112408 754175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs.
< 1360112445 649274 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (+1) < 1360112447 114895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num a => a -> a < 1360112468 34647 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (^?) < 1360112469 801560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> Getting (First a) s t a b -> Maybe a < 1360112499 60676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote s\s?t\s?a\s?b < 1360112499 630796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: The actual pattern is that you *first* do a breathlessly excited post about how Haskell is ninja pirate awesome because quicksort is so short, and it has closures, and you're going to < 1360112499 816141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn Haskell and write all your software in Haskell... then a week later you do the bitter "debunking" post. Monads are hard and Maybe isn't any different from Java's null and I was promised a pony, < 1360112499 816321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : where's my pony < 1360112505 378066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1360112536 116562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote s(\s?)t\1a\1b < 1360112536 748597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksilver says: i love them. Double is my friend You think he is, sure he says nice things about you but one day, when your back is turned, he < 1360112536 933833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :will stab you in the back with a mantissa < 1360112541 571670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote s(\s?)t\1a\1b < 1360112541 993587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebazzz says: y venden bulks y esas mierdas bulks llenos de pastabase < 1360112544 729923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote s(\s?)t\1a\1b < 1360112545 207355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sioraiocht says: if you made a type class the same name as a type, I'd stab you in the face < 1360112550 663968 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the quicksort is fake < 1360112590 430922 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people sure do like debunking ponies < 1360112648 393549 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not baby horses at all < 1360112649 894359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wake up sheeple < 1360112662 946460 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just think they're cute because they're small < 1360112668 116560 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually they're expensive and they shit everywhere < 1360112680 152863 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cockroaches are both small and cheap < 1360112680 478907 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how people don't realize how much shit animals actually involve < 1360112766 603768 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "they shit everywhere" is in general applicable to most animals < 1360112803 115889 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: A good estimate is to take the amount you yourself shit and multiply that by a thousand < 1360112820 427118 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but people don't realize it! it's baffling. where do you think all that mass goes, people < 1360112936 875036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what animal shits the most compared to its body weight < 1360112949 631137 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe pandas < 1360112952 586242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that eats the most compared to its body weight < 1360112954 359619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most probably < 1360112963 432989 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm thinking definitely some herbivore < 1360112967 299391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kmc pandas are fat and useless < 1360112978 634543 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1360112978 940053 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are some svelte and useless animals < 1360112982 423688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pandas have horrible digestive systems and eat bamboo which has almost no nutritious value < 1360112987 772071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, < 1360112988 911015 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc < 1360112989 886148 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc < 1360112992 365022 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1360112994 997553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to impress upon me < 1360113001 215619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how shit pandas are < 1360113006 959737 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the swedes of the animal kingdom < 1360113013 222357 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360113019 415333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Shrews typically eat 80–90% of their own body weight in food daily.[citation needed]' < 1360113032 57688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get a shrew, video tape it for 24 hours, and upload that to wikipedia < 1360113035 558631 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be original research :( < 1360113059 573481 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not very rigorous. < 1360113291 107003 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homebrew have now raised £5,176 to buy a Mac Mini < 1360113565 862251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :homebrew? < 1360113602 175891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they fix the -k yet? < 1360113882 967901 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ < 1360113893 61658 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, they merged my pull request < 1360113900 523155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :People nearby are talking about the key ingredients of a successful startup. < 1360113912 964865 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that you need a hacker, a hipster, and a hustler. < 1360113924 894502 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly about what kind of coffee you serve < 1360113932 349687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's probably not enough by itself < 1360113942 347288 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably you would raise a $250k - $500k angel round and put that all into an espresso machine < 1360113946 581762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as you might have trouble getting them to work together < 1360113966 308226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the coffee's for < 1360113981 939020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Good point. < 1360113983 694313 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hustler? < 1360113989 145674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have top coffee you can't attract top people < 1360113989 632025 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a conman? < 1360113992 97582 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh, conperson < 1360113996 364558 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no matter what you're doing, you need olympic-class rockstars to do it < 1360114015 681814 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever feel bad about how badly treated olympic athletes can be < 1360114017 179090 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy metal is not yet a sport recognized by the IOC < 1360114023 423440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, rock stars have come up. < 1360114028 27835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, < 1360114029 458086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1360114032 722041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sports are bad < 1360114038 834438 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're bad < 1360114039 974602 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: but for a week every 4 years they get to live in the olympic village and have sex nonstop < 1360114040 468787 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1360114046 671592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fencing is an olympic sport shit < 1360114048 25668 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: haha < 1360114072 5302 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did you know that one of the olympic committee chairpeople was an actual nazi sympathizer back in the 50s or 60s < 1360114075 47155 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times < 1360114083 178159 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360114084 870532 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olympics is hipster to mainstream american sports < 1360114086 242319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember reading about that < 1360114099 381144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did some ridiculous things but i don't remember what < 1360114099 566515 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(portlandia did it) < 1360114103 964565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: great < 1360114107 633077 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nazis everywhere < 1360114112 561714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clowns to the left of me, nazis to the right < 1360114122 696472 :makadon!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1360114125 314038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here i am, stuck in the middle with jew < 1360114137 853308 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360114146 753025 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute ~ < 1360114150 27089 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cuts off Phantom_Hoover's ear
< 1360114164 555381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful now < 1360114166 963474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now they're talking about "the dunning-kruger effect" < 1360114170 969467 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh he was in the 1912 olympics < 1360114171 191462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the sort of thing that starts wars < 1360114174 708693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :empirical studies, man!! < 1360114191 838553 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think psychology research should be written in code < 1360114195 659848 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what about it < 1360114231 649833 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't treat them as Internet people. < 1360114268 951495 :stuntaneous!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360114284 660382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are these peole < 1360114428 181426 :sebbu!~sebbu@adijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1360114428 366964 :sebbu!~sebbu@adijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1360114428 367120 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1360114514 128864 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I feel kind of silly because I just realized that http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/ is only available over unencrypted HTTP < 1360114535 35212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1360114548 955298 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but grabbing the ruby script over HTTPS is still an improvement < 1360114572 728907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i'm not completely grounded here < 1360114582 854359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you like these people < 1360114588 779440 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :homebrew? < 1360114624 531961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360114626 357947 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have any use for their software personally < 1360114641 688910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a lot of developers who use macs more or less rely on it < 1360114673 441070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1360114677 778604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1360114680 803941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360114730 780354 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they don't care much about security, and the sophistication of their packaging tools is like 1998 in Debian years < 1360114784 812771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Entreprenurship is not a job, it's a calling, it's a mission from God. This is what you have to do." < 1360114786 704764 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1360114801 919995 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God" here means "Paul Graham" right? < 1360114867 204406 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a guy in #lisp who says "I worship Paul Graham" verbatim. it's frightening < 1360114883 804666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought lispies generally weren't huge fans < 1360114890 665237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I have the impression that On Lisp is a controversial book < 1360114894 485868 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1360114898 156770 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is a noob < 1360114909 687812 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he really really really likes macros even for things where they are horribly unnecessary < 1360114910 824459 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just weird to see someone literally say that < 1360114919 147503 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is it an "i love paul graham, it's so easy" kind of situation < 1360114929 346624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1360114929 797774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would one prefer haskell to say clisp or smalltalk? < 1360114933 814248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@protontorpedo < 1360114934 84014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it fun to program in haskell? < 1360114936 908095 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1360114942 976101 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's an "i love paul graham he's a billionaire and this guy criticizing him doesn't even have a wikipedia why should i care?? welcome to /ignore fucker" situation < 1360114967 30637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/12.12.18:04:52:19 paul graham said that lisp is the most powerful language, and that all other languages are blub < 1360114980 294488 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really hope he's like twenty at most < 1360114994 412990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if he's twenty and a follower of PG then he has already started at least 3 startups < 1360115008 769703 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1360115043 817824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/13.01.04:11:49:53 I've just made a profound discovery < 1360115044 25937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/13.01.04:11:50:13 both water and air are monoids :D < 1360115044 211373 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/13.01.04:11:51:26 maybe ice isn't a monoid though < 1360115044 211562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell/13.01.04:11:52:06 maybe the vacuum of space < 1360115068 929590 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :profound indeed, sir < 1360115071 894207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :say what you will about finance industry, at least people admit that they're amoral profit-seekers < 1360115095 829743 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhhhh "job creators" < 1360115148 162059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1360115201 745174 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just that startup doofuses have no discernable impact on the world other than zuckerberg selling things to the real big companies, versus bankers who well < 1360115228 49615 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think the bankers have a larger negative real effect on society < 1360115242 144784 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the attitude of the startup bubblers may be more socially contemptible < 1360115254 734624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :acting like you're saving the world by making useless crap to enrich highly privileged people < 1360115302 644023 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but at most it's just irritating to people like me who run into them on the web sometimes, which isn't so bad < 1360115339 795755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360115343 279131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end it's just idle whining < 1360115464 75931 :makadon!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :stuntaneous < 1360115474 236524 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1360115492 356894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's better than doing nothing. < 1360115599 79641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :idle whining is? < 1360115621 702070 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still didn't answer about where you are that you have to listen these people, and thus how i should update my desire or lack thereof to move to SF < 1360115675 26880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in SF. < 1360115706 291882 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPA? < 1360115875 995687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not. < 1360116073 416596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're playing the guessing game i guess < 1360116084 277444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far is the nearest caltrain stop < 1360116111 511499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 minutes' walk? < 1360116218 943558 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :git bisect gilroy sf < 1360116255 252829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that stop Palo Alto < 1360116261 859089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Mountain View. < 1360116263 52338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I mean, is it Palo Alto or north of < 1360116266 242219 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoilsport < 1360116279 648328 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to join this mission from god startup < 1360116312 923115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I feel bad about quoting them. < 1360116327 3411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1360116343 762116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they're gone. < 1360116496 83024 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1360116507 74418 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you agree to be their technical confounder < 1360116548 81423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not good at confounding. :-( < 1360116552 756112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is pretty good at it. < 1360116557 15416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"something about galois connections" < 1360116594 491767 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :confound their politics, frustrate their knavish tricks < 1360116629 561382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how's your startup doing < 1360116635 870093 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing pretty well < 1360116692 19132 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody has particularly suggested that we're saving the world < 1360116692 669013 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the foremost social media platform for complaining about social media platforms < 1360116700 639127 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that IRC < 1360116707 536573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not when you're done with it! < 1360116710 544358 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not what you're retroactively designing < 1360116768 212022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1360117265 141279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what you did by speaking about retroactive design < 1360117288 428342 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~_~ < 1360117374 731369 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1360117972 820705 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360117978 244799 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360118306 935927 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1360118507 873368 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i have one problem left on cryptopuzzles part deux < 1360118596 149170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's part deux? < 1360118602 466112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second set? < 1360118712 546233 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360118886 870270 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are various definitions for adjoint functors. Their equivalence is elementary but not at all trivial and in fact highly useful. This article provides several such definitions:" < 1360118895 322846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe people just confuse "trivial" with "elementary"? < 1360119062 863500 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360119151 583609 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1360119157 209882 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1360119172 540408 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is something 'up' < 1360119175 82806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have yet to find any ties between you and Galois, Inc. < 1360119180 87418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm sure there's something < 1360119185 609771 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1360119252 344991 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Galois Connection would be a good name for a conspiracy thriller < 1360119413 255333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok "change of topic" < 1360119417 44774 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know things about adjunctions < 1360119448 98389 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but i plan to remedy this soon < 1360119471 737635 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where soon means 'idk maybe in a few months' < 1360119486 757472 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have categories for the working mathematician now but do i have time to read it???? the eternal question < 1360119502 347637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you know about "kan extensions" < 1360119563 722921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (and have you read http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/ralf.hinze/Kan.pdf help) < 1360119587 188516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually it looks "pretty readable for someone like me who doesn't know that much about the topic") < 1360119598 237720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it has nice diagrams) < 1360119622 232681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and apparently tomorrow there's going to be a categories and types meeting about it?? help) < 1360119634 405350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think i'll go and be clueless) < 1360119644 550951 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't read it but i'm thinking maybe i will? sometime??? < 1360119673 56793 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see "the pretty pictures" < 1360119821 243629 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360119908 811031 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360119947 327616 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360119953 836780 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360120243 693671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue ):[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~[)$~~~%~~)[[0[33 H])[)[H]]!][1)[)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[)$$6-%0[)[))$11~<<~:(~:< ]])[~~~)*[)~(:+~~-)+1]---256%):] ]~:] ]]])] ] [5[5][[50]<:[[52]<:]][[54]<:[[56]<:]]] < 1360120245 318873 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :54321 < 1360120251 697514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1360120272 771080 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The latest results show that lightning-strength jolts of electricity can more than double the yield of certain mushroom species compared with conventional cultivation methods." < 1360120490 21113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue ):[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~[)$~~~%~~)[[0[33 H])[)[64 H]]!][1)[)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[)$$7--1[)[))$11~<<~:(~:< ]])[~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:] ]~:] ]]])] ] [250[250][[50]<:[[52]<:]][[54]<:[[56]<:]]] < 1360120491 405502 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :250251252253254255@ < 1360120523 692573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok [.-] and [.+] loops work from the inside < 1360120978 40862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue ):[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~[)$~~~%~~)[[0[33 H])[)[64 H]]!][1)[)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[)$$7--1[)[))$11~<<~:(~:< ]])[~~~)%[~~)~:(+-)(~)+-1*256]+-~)255:]32 ]~:] ]]])] ] [250[250][[50]<:[[52]<:]][[54]<:[[56]<:]]] < 1360120979 595296 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :250 251 252 253 254 255 @ < 1360121205 889794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue ):[)$$6-%0~~[$~])~[)$~~~%~~)[[0[33 H])[)[64 H]]!][1)[)$%0[)[))$11~<<~:(~:< ]])[):] ]]])] ] [65[65][[50]<:[[52]<:]][[54]<:[[56]<:]]] < 1360121207 427104 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1360121260 975715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`oerjan < 1360121261 199850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fueue ):[65 ):] < 1360121262 208222 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oerjan: not found < 1360121262 996544 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1360121273 81278 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA > bin/oerjan; chmod +x bin/oerjan < 1360121276 713618 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1360121305 823907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i am happy shachaf is on another continent. < 1360121703 454322 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'print "A" x 350' < 1360121704 937210 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1360121733 648442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits < 1360121734 954148 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: Bourne-Again shell script text executable < 1360121738 237066 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits < 1360121739 428318 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ ulimit -f 10240 \ ulimit -l 0 \ ulimit -u 128 \ exec -- "$@" < 1360121746 622250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :libmits < 1360121756 393400 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :libmitts < 1360121767 57097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert very topical and relevant mitt romney joke < 1360121860 671495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tropical and elephant < 1360122132 707858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the thing where ESC O m inserts a -? < 1360122135 703727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awful. < 1360122608 535332 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know that thing < 1360122676 988573 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1360122684 664443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's vim expecting me to have a really slow terminal. < 1360122686 810652 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1360122687 654176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean as a terminal control code? < 1360122690 677819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1360122702 929222 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not get that in vim? < 1360122705 702898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION consults good old ctlseqs.txt.gz
< 1360122711 841378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember that there's a configuration option to turn that off. < 1360122741 165621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't follow -- if you hit Esc, then O, then m, you get a -? < 1360122741 387681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESC O Single Shift Select of G3 Character Set (SS3 is 0x8f). This affects next character only. < 1360122745 103290 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1360122751 338609 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do you do to make vim print one of these? < 1360122767 677444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Print? < 1360122774 749052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I press Esc, it "goes out of insert mode". < 1360122782 96736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I press O to open a new line above the current one. < 1360122787 163105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I press m. < 1360122792 768192 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it inserts a - instea.d < 1360122801 500164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And doesn't make the new line.) < 1360122801 858735 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've not seen that happen < 1360122816 296808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't reproduce it? < 1360122824 805444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in 30 sec of fiddling < 1360122871 156395 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with other characters than m < 1360122890 754847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :n -> . , k -> + , etc. < 1360122918 719848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (xor `on` ord) 'm' '-' < 1360122920 724647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 64 < 1360122923 23406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (xor `on` ord) 'n' '.' < 1360122925 126638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 64 < 1360123012 634045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what language(s) are you using for cryptopizzles < 1360123056 138486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Ruby (which is what they're using). < 1360123061 465793 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they"? < 1360123067 729615 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Ruby > Nothing < 1360123069 49226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people writing the questions. < 1360123071 949160 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1360123079 104035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to use a crazy language but you did that already. < 1360123084 432726 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for one problem < 1360123108 674104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AES ECB one? < 1360123117 191000 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i considered using Haskell, it would have been pretty good i think < 1360123117 837103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360123330 182592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about looking for Scala jobs is some of them don't expect you to know Scala already, they're willing to teach you on the job. Not really the case for more popular languages < 1360123428 143907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the jobs more than the languages, I'd imagine. < 1360123446 72570 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my experience that is quite true for popular languages < 1360123448 277755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what shachaf said < 1360123485 405260 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at many jobs, learning a new programming language would be only a small part of the getting up to speed process < 1360123496 580245 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many employers recognize this < 1360123525 647663 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one thing if you expect deep knowledge of something hard and unusual, like Haskell or C++ < 1360123533 898763 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you know Ruby and they want Python, whatever < 1360123562 727686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how the differences between programming languages shrink or grow depending on your own vantage point within the space of all languages < 1360123683 792741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got a C++ job without knowing much C++
< 1360123712 474692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of language would give me a vantage point such that J looked similar to C? < 1360123738 275122 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :martian, probably < 1360123780 316255 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :piet < 1360123826 81569 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what similarities do they have. punctuation. an almost similar notion of functions. representing code in text? < 1360123882 516362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about J, what are its data types? < 1360123894 401279 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :array, number, character < 1360123902 421719 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxes < 1360123920 115633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer science is the study of boxes and arrows" -- someone < 1360123926 486835 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark Twain possibly < 1360123936 939771 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted computer aphorist < 1360124157 784575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I never said half the things I said." -- Mark Twain < 1360124454 663095 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who are you? Why are you exhuming my corpse?" < 1360124458 275023 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Mark Twain < 1360124504 620884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm sorry, that is a secret." -- George Bernard Shaw < 1360125284 749406 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360125971 232680 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwilightSpockle: Figured you'd like to know, season 4 confirmed, will be 26 episodes. < 1360126011 494568 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well I think most jobs where you use C++ don't expect deep knowledge of C++ < 1360126038 223744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people swimming in the C++ pool don't even known how deep it gets and how many terrifying creatures lurk in the depths beyond the reach of light < 1360126082 850644 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of that "deep C" presentation that was going around a while back < 1360126091 670204 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1360126140 921935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably know C++ better than I do. < 1360126156 560570 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: link? < 1360126169 204044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely some dark corners of C as well < 1360126179 956317 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were the strange ones i learned here... < 1360126190 191761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume http://www.slideshare.net/olvemaudal/deep-c < 1360126194 703606 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct { ...; int x : 0; ...; } < 1360126203 217824 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that. i didn't much like the attitude and you probably know all of it anyway < 1360126204 151858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That presentation had some interesting information but some of it was a bit silly. < 1360126210 648058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least as an interviewing guide. < 1360126210 833983 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ah, good one. < 1360126238 785990 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like struct alignment, subtleties of static, side effect order... < 1360126241 574983 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what's that do? < 1360126304 604599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: forces bitfields after to be in different words or something from bitfields before < 1360126307 527978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iic < 1360126345 630475 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1360126492 409215 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other strange syntax i learned here was (C99): void f(int a[*]); < 1360126561 987562 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh. i haven't even a guess < 1360126570 28585 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, what was that one again? < 1360126596 946188 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :declares that 'a' is a variable-length array < 1360126602 478881 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riiight, yes. < 1360126606 134967 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose length will be known by the time the function is actually called < 1360126620 420705 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do things like void f(int n, int a[2*n + 7]) < 1360126638 144098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you might not want to duplicate this in your header file < 1360126647 700320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't do int a[static 2*n + 7]), presumably < 1360126650 124507 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the equation in the header will never be checked for accuracy and it might depend on implementation details < 1360126650 909166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or however that syntax went. < 1360126657 287233 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i forgot how that thing works < 1360126661 495341 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was even weirder < 1360126693 32229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think foo(int x[static 5]) means that you actually have to have 5 ints at the pointer. < 1360126730 616092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas otherwise it's just a pointer. < 1360126748 725667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the compiler can dereference any value in x[0-4] < 1360126752 939863 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right yes < 1360126778 343450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it's legal to call a foo(int x[]) function with a NULL pointer even, as long as it's never derefed < 1360126784 222159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1360126858 564367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in C++ there are four mostly unrelated meanings of "static". < 1360126900 202871 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only four? < 1360126913 6074 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :three? C ones plus static members? < 1360126924 415652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :static members are pretty similar to the C meanings < 1360126974 542078 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, if you have a class Foo { static int bar; }; in a .hh file, you need to have some .cc file with int Foo::bar; < 1360127008 687051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put it in a particular compilation unit with the same storage class as other static stuff < 1360127023 459130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's not that similar < 1360127029 335688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something that confuses people, anyway < 1360127074 410760 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything about static confuses people < 1360127083 433273 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has static_cast too but i think that doesn't count :) < 1360127220 511499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking a good interview question is to explain the rationale behind the fact that auto variables are uninitialized while static variables are initialized < 1360127254 261378 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a jumping off point to talk about a variety of language and OS things < 1360127264 451869 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because static variables take up static space anyway, and if it's zero/not specified by the programmer it can just go in .bss? < 1360127278 152266 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still costs the OS something to zero pages, right? < 1360127293 985340 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm just thinking of object file size < 1360127308 489805 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's that important < 1360127308 675625 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also the OS needs to zero pages, because they might have someone else's data in them < 1360127318 927346 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360127339 508362 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Deferred to first write to the page usually. < 1360127342 777241 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COW is a powerful thing. < 1360127362 9306 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux actually supports mmap(MAP_UNINITIALIZED) for embedded systems, if you enable it in the kernel config < 1360127365 901780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, you can talk about that too < 1360127419 911753 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo a good interview question isn't about a specific answer, it's a conversation starter < 1360127431 627587 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true. < 1360127447 421998 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of an interview, particularly for programming, is to see how the person thinks. < 1360127482 63105 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm also interested in what they know, but I think you get more of that by encouraging them to talk than by asking many specific questions < 1360127491 988359 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1360127512 912244 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want someone who's an expert in mundane trivia of Java. < 1360127513 565966 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1360127519 826051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360127532 997236 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even then, it's a good sign if they are super excited about mundane trivia of Java and volunteer them unprompted ;) < 1360127541 578916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are the super open ended questions like < 1360127549 475310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you type google.com into a web browser and hit enter, what happens" < 1360127558 786321 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez yes < 1360127563 369667 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes people start by talking about keyboard switch debouncing < 1360127600 194097 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty awesome question. < 1360127906 100336 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure about it < 1360127909 393612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it is really tedious < 1360127919 243332 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you also get a ton of information < 1360127929 807561 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :both about what the person knows, and about which abstracitons they do and don't think about < 1360128005 881417 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well, first you subconsciously come to the decision to type. your motor cortex will send signals down the spinal cord that are eventually routed to the muscles in the arm that control the fingers..." < 1360128045 197892 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, first a quark interacts with quark. And then a quark interacts with a quark. And..." < 1360128050 513217 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1 year later] < 1360128075 366218 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So finally, the molecule has interacted with the neighboring molecule." < 1360128096 164112 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the leibnizian monads, while having no knowledge of the outside world, or indeed any world at all, nonetheless act (without extension) in such a way that we can interpret as subatomic motion" < 1360128540 259820 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about the candidate who writes a powerful short story about a guy who is typing google.com and hits enter < 1360128711 254904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, Bike: that's a good presentation < 1360128714 82406 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the link < 1360128720 386304 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1360128728 344806 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad you liked it more than i did >_> < 1360128734 747926 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it postulates a kind of dunning-kruger effect for C++ < 1360128737 218141 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh, why's that? < 1360128765 86192 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author just seemed kind of insufferable, like wow you're so dumb for not knowing this < 1360128768 781939 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still good info < 1360128789 635716 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1360128799 476132 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the slides alone you mean? or at some talk you saw? < 1360128803 444442 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the slides < 1360128816 432233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :==Bike < 1360128817 814145 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1360128833 472139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably do reasonably well at those sorts of questions, but the interviewer seems rather irritating. < 1360128840 453688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :any specific examples? the little thought bubbles underneath wrong answer guy's answers? < 1360128855 6131 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked at it in months, let me see < 1360128904 364971 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1360128976 565632 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo most of these questions are pretty fair game < 1360128981 782322 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of being things you do need to know < 1360129079 500789 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stuff you need to know, i'm just whining about some attitude < 1360129119 341337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1360129353 983562 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i just got the "deep c" pun < 1360129357 970450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION winner
< 1360129371 582274 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slideshare can eat a dick < 1360129401 215304 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shark didn't tip you off? < 1360129408 96630 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess jaws doesn't take place in the deep sea < 1360129416 735474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slideshare is awful. < 1360129431 815555 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get to the shark yet < 1360129443 215551 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it start with a shark? < 1360129450 261653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to download a pdf without logging in with Fucking Facebook < 1360129451 880831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It slowed down to the point that I killed it. < 1360129457 284863 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it starts with an ROV exploring a wreck i think < 1360129466 947917 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that this shouldn't be just as much a tipoff, but i'm dense < 1360129476 972437 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, on slide three < 1360129481 486456 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1360129492 225784 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can just ignore those silly starters often, eh < 1360129508 623182 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :before we say anything interesting here are some jpeg artifacts < 1360129524 258865 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an xkcd strip tangentially related to my talk < 1360129532 857832 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone please laugh for the designated 0.3 seconds < 1360129601 378649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.pvv.org/~oma/DeepC_slides_oct2011.pdf < 1360129636 145394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok slide 389 has some attitude < 1360129637 439602 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanxchaf < 1360129696 163222 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what cubicles actually look like, also < 1360129702 217330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are not suggesting that all your C and C++ programmers in your organization need a deep understanding of the language. But you certainly need a critical mass of programmers that care about their profession and constantly keep updating themselves and always strive for a better understanding of their programming language" < 1360129717 431661 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems unfair to say that people who aren't language experts don't care or aren't 'up to date' < 1360129733 436063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they are experts in algorithms, systems, or the problem domain of whatever your company actually does to make money < 1360129869 246918 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes some cubes look like that < 1360129915 893424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a fan of cubes myself < 1360129921 964785 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :frightening < 1360129944 689552 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like the worst of both worlds between a private office and open plan < 1360129980 136982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think making open plan work depends a lot on the people and the space < 1360129997 579688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cubes have a better failure mode or require less planning overhead < 1360130068 599160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1360130758 982242 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1360130764 775148 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360130779 955357 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360131771 122813 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1360136196 70176 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360136567 66186 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e17d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1360136869 729714 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f227.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360139037 716354 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cubes is what you make your offices if you have no soul < 1360139681 573502 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360139760 583561 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360140038 622705 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1360140053 700579 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360140081 80883 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think the number I've heard was 7 meanings of static < 1360140102 388986 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably 5 more in c++11) < 1360140107 450257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they? < 1360140155 780951 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :curiously, C compilers never ask you to list the possible meanings of static < 1360140183 6046 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. You need a static analysis tool for that. < 1360140476 186456 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1360140625 629535 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360141240 224581 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1360141432 203569 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1360141464 905457 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1360142295 592056 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360142323 838834 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360144451 599703 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f227.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1360145985 447709 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6917.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360147720 793753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://blog.wien.tomnetworks.com/2013/02/06/thesis/ < 1360147744 851222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360148668 810063 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1360153314 613503 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1360153550 745898 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1360154110 247180 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360158306 911112 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1360159245 28661 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@sabis.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1360159320 924208 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1360159340 597628 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1360159450 844820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360159498 911537 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1360159827 605709 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360159836 790312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1360159838 82321 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1360159856 883306 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: /me downloads < 1360160030 883512 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360160096 616745 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1360160096 802541 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1360160096 802679 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1360160421 618175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1360160497 207881 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1360160579 505250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360160714 508086 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360160879 684765 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good warm morning! < 1360160885 781715 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only -9 °C today! < 1360160951 420310 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wake me up when it gets below -9 K < 1360160953 857456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was around -5 °C here. < 1360160994 136826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots (well, relatively) of snow yesterday/today, though. < 1360161227 549070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360161365 772602 :sebbu!~sebbu@adijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1360161365 958389 :sebbu!~sebbu@adijon-152-1-50-175.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1360161365 958485 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1360162439 229513 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360163718 879853 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360164222 333979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: cool < 1360164251 502927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360165074 658794 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Translating Python to Haskell is even less fun that translating C to Haskell < 1360165108 809397 :TwilightSpockle!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I hear is you saying that C and Haskell are basically the same. < 1360165131 933928 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something C-H isomorphism < 1360165271 905536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360165348 363884 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a morphism GHC :: Haskell -> C, but what about CoGHC :: C -> Haskell? < 1360165373 503426 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something unnatural transformation < 1360165443 4067 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about natural transformations, but what is a SSU (something something unnatural) one? < 1360165588 899505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1360165621 353499 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hard to explain, but somewhat like a bad analogy < 1360165698 285065 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This position is asking for "- Extensive experience with API" < 1360165756 961573 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just not qualified, kid. < 1360166087 207884 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1360166169 107981 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1360166170 425104 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The part of the code that I wasn't particularly involved in was the part that was broken." < 1360166184 901006 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't mentioned that before, it's self aggrandizing, but it's completely true < 1360166503 917168 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Are you a Hacker?" < 1360166509 805932 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is a brogramming position :/ < 1360168553 232650 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1360168786 330032 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1360169758 894635 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1360170711 837909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :run away < 1360171659 72348 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1360171740 471974 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty much applying for anything that even looks like I somewhat qualify < 1360171765 219662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to hear more about this "are you a hacker" question out of morbid curiosity < 1360171789 113056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think your statement is very much not self aggrandizing < 1360171796 52745 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to how a stereotypical macho hacker would put it < 1360171890 924457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360172035 568754 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well in the job description it says "Are you a Hacker? Are you bored in your current position?" < 1360172049 957838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how I responded: < 1360172051 117390 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In some sense of the word, yes. In Second Life, I have experimented until I found a way to reach the maximum altitude (MAX FLOAT). In the Creatures game series, I have experimented to see what hex editing a creature could accomplish." < 1360172068 445320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh job descriptions are bs < 1360172087 247919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't read too much into it, i'll still make fun of them on the internet tho < 1360172088 172579 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's this form to fill out with several questions and "Are you a Hacker?" was one < 1360172624 693514 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Writing code while sleep-deprived. Good idea or great idea? < 1360172692 899354 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-80.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1360172724 986443 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, too lazy to get emacs working. How bad can writing lisp code without paredit be? < 1360172810 411446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it works surprisingly well, actually < 1360172826 825484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the current Emacs installer from Windows works really smoothly on Vista and later < 1360172836 951689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you install into your home directory < 1360172849 724473 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is on Linux right now
< 1360173122 92428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which distro? < 1360173144 512592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 10.10 < 1360173153 497777 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really just a little bit of code < 1360173165 303361 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meat is going to be copy/pasted and modified from clojure.core really < 1360173318 577996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can't you just apt-get install emacs? < 1360173325 872820 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is installed < 1360173330 776208 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like configuring it < 1360173370 117811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only configuration I've really done on my Windows install of Emacs is changing the font, changing the background to black (to avoid screwing up my sleep patterns), and setting the options in the options menu < 1360173394 276923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't you just install f.lux or something < 1360173402 722273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: without an internet connection? < 1360173414 345111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you appear to have an internet connection < 1360173417 266985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, the ability to install emacs < 1360173421 877181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude you have the ability to install f.lux < 1360173435 396084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed Emacs by downloading it on Linux and saving it to the Windows partition < 1360173446 556121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work for everything (e.g. it doesn't work for Cygwin) < 1360173468 94504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I dislike installing software except from repositories < 1360173493 344651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a Debian repository < 1360173497 770276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't exactly offer a Windows repository < 1360173506 717990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, an Ubuntu PPA, but I suspect the package works on Debian) < 1360173517 99262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Windows 8 has a repository < 1360173525 972208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by Microsoft < 1360173813 838520 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360173900 897550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1360173924 542466 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1360174191 491764 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-80.elisa.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360174199 820216 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-80.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1360174443 5352 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep looking for a single unitary language, yet when I have problems that need solving I do tend to try to find the right tool for the problem < 1360174463 722181 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, the problem is a blog post I'm writing that talks about Clojure, so the right tool to write code in is Clojure < 1360174584 318755 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6917.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1360174721 487995 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42ad7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360174840 835163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if only it were always that easy to work out which language to use :) < 1360174883 434272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not obvious, I tend to resort to Python. This has been a mistake at least once. < 1360175073 935977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what if you find the single unitary language but don't actually use it enough for real stuff to realise it's the one / what if this has already happened < 1360175170 559077 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some vague idea of what The One should look like. I think though, that including "enough popularity that a good amount of libraries exists for it" kind of limits the options, though < 1360175268 223481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you're wrong about what it should look like < 1360175293 877816 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1360175311 530600 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you need a configuration file to change the syntax for your particular project. < 1360175326 448120 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1360175350 712727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth! < 1360175361 275024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what languages /look/ like is mostly irrelevant < 1360175376 467605 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look like" was a bad turn of phrase < 1360175376 657341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, btw, I discovered what the theoretical computer science definition of "haskell" seems to be < 1360175384 719936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the theoretical computer science definition of "algol", except call-by-need < 1360175398 707136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my brain was flashing alarms "you can't do that" < 1360175453 36366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what if you're wrong about what properties it should have < 1360175478 470178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haskell and Algol aren't just the same language with different calling conventions, right? < 1360175484 178242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, considering that "The One" is a matter dictated by my personal taste... are you saying I would be mistaken about my preferences? < 1360175490 880225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm starding to doubt myself < 1360175493 147779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*starting < 1360175515 155504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, as I've learned, my tastes have changed < 1360175516 564677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that doesn't seem hard to believe < 1360175552 550043 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360175557 602038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is even likely that your method for evaluating languages is insufficient for many (perhaps even most) reasonable sets of language criteria < 1360175560 696258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likely many urneasonable ones too < 1360175624 5477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's sort-of hard to make well-defined statements about languages < 1360175639 398685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the only one I've found that's usually uncontroversial is "language X is statically/dynamically typed" < 1360175651 724301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's incredibly controversial < 1360175661 523103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: re Haskell and Algol: depends what you mean by Haskell and Algol < 1360175666 441588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of controversy in which is better < 1360175667 982179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know < 1360175674 407542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be a weird CS definition I wasn't previously aware of < 1360175677 252924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you took an existing Algol language and made it call-by-need, I'd still prefer Haskell vastly over it for many reasons < 1360175690 36843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X is either statically or dynamically typed" is not true for all X < 1360175697 779002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think your confusion stems from the fact that the language you call "Algol" is a language family that is only distantly related to Algol < 1360175699 403168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, algol 60 is like 53 years old at this point < 1360175706 642781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verity resembles Haskell much more than Algol to me < 1360175710 812336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not me who called it Algol < 1360175717 894529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you still call it that :) < 1360175726 705273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Verity was my attempt to take mathematical-Algol semantics, and put a modern syntax on it < 1360175748 866436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360175784 185828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is mostly inspired by C, but you can only get /so/ C-like and still remain usably higher-order < 1360175795 954521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is a mix of OCaml and Haskell and mathematical notation < 1360175898 615519 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss the good old days of having a special keyboard taylored to your language of choice. < 1360175912 470334 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I miss them in the sense that I haven't had the chance to experience them first hand.) < 1360175948 762608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: good news, Agda exists! < 1360175963 358211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately Agda comes with an emacs mode < 1360175965 368741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't qualify < 1360176128 118250 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL exists < 1360176163 965066 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortress exists~ < 1360176174 78056 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. < 1360176241 575188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortress sort of stopped existing < 1360176252 11229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. < 1360176258 555942 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :954) not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. < 1360176270 678951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a fungot quote to me < 1360176270 864555 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there! there it is! < 1360176282 917615 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unlike apl < 1360176309 984975 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *polite cough* I believe I'm slightly more decoherent than fungot to be considered quoting him. < 1360176310 170743 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: must think of a way to the ocean palace? < 1360176329 664502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"decoherent"? < 1360176331 715944 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, fungot makes much more sense than I. < 1360176331 901898 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... our art and science... all to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have the masamune! < 1360176354 150252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has got to be chrono trigger style, right? < 1360176355 683798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1360176355 869565 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1360176357 857520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360176369 876547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The upshot is that new technique can measure timing differentials of less than 1 microsecond over a LAN connection -- for example, if the attacker is in the same data center as your servers." < 1360176378 545785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing we all have dedicated... oh wait < 1360176382 768909 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, my French's slipping. please wait for a moment while I try to find a proper translation... ♪background muzak♪ < 1360176387 562082 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't fungot have a esoteric style? < 1360176387 744773 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. < 1360176388 69868 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the era of buying an EC2 machine to attack another EC2 machine? < 1360176406 80408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it has irc < 1360176409 748372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mostly based on #esoteric logs < 1360176414 893911 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it updated? < 1360176419 23583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess an esowki style would be interesting < 1360176423 756195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #scheme too and stuff < 1360176429 804517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and updating it takes a lot of manual work for fizzie < 1360176430 574719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact probably the #scheme logs outweigh #esoteric < 1360176432 205771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not very often < 1360176432 761090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by way of popularity < 1360176434 536853 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1360176443 177682 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incoherent, says I. probably. < 1360176448 151421 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a markov chain on 10 decades of this channel < 1360176465 634056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a markov chain on 10 octaves of this channel < 1360176468 196849 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whate are ic, iwcs, pa, ss, sms, and speeches? < 1360176476 721375 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style pa < 1360176476 907011 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) < 1360176485 505308 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: dongs < 1360176485 876816 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: who pissed in your cheerios? honestly? i wouldn't even tell anybody. < 1360176498 621413 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a markov chain on 10 markov chains of this channel. < 1360176499 608042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's a good quote < 1360176515 750344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I won't report them for contaminating your breakfast < 1360176517 400579 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ss < 1360176517 586235 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) < 1360176519 838520 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style sms < 1360176520 24053 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) < 1360176522 135495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: there's fungot style < 1360176522 658967 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: up to dadar studio. see whether she know your mother also... wahahah :) < 1360176524 763358 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1360176524 949367 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1360176530 458144 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ic < 1360176530 643721 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) < 1360176534 756871 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes < 1360176535 3273 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a line with a replacement that's `simpler' in comments and string literals, etc.) if the filename is of a multidimensional array is being linked to it. < 1360176541 612730 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1360176544 897435 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style iwcs < 1360176545 83024 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) < 1360176553 130315 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fisher < 1360176553 315941 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) < 1360176586 877754 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360176596 454177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh can we get the enron corpus too < 1360176602 887995 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/03/14 i don't get it < 1360176642 244703 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while we're at it, maybe the calgary/canterbury corpuses too. < 1360176738 329967 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Enron email dataset was suggested. < 1360176781 647103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when my friends were working on a startup making software for legal discovery, that was what they used for their demo < 1360176792 690536 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it is the standard corpus in email-related NLP < 1360176858 501291 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... there's a fungot style? < 1360176858 827193 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i agree with you just really < 1360176867 946451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it is pretty popular. < 1360176872 289025 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-80.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1360176879 31943 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot < 1360176879 218069 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) < 1360176886 28724 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot? < 1360176886 214188 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going, tough one. if we solve it,..., the calls. we decide what i'm made that one work only for the dignity, only gray. in that second one is horizontally displaced by 1 pixel is sacred. just me, or i: yet, you rogue! < 1360176902 213285 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating. < 1360176911 883662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can't be all that fungot's said < 1360176912 69333 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going fast and such an apparently non-standard format is being dimensioned by assigning dimensions to them; and sets. maybe thats what them meant by experimental selected so it probably no longer the wand the better part made mercie, i should think at least, that is expressions which have not been able, to assume responsibilities < 1360176936 478610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't said 'that sword alone can't stop' or 'anmaster no not markov' even once < 1360176939 522825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you fu < 1360176940 657707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you fungot < 1360176940 843450 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov < 1360176947 551862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1360176948 415512 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahahaha < 1360176948 601178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go. < 1360176967 304027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under some assumptions, the "fungot" style is a simple weighted sum of all the other styles. < 1360176967 489780 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* wizened shape, very magic ( in the system < 1360176981 66539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, er < 1360176984 971026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote markov < 1360176986 793724 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :578) Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov < 1360177013 608399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The assumptions aren't true, though.) < 1360177019 368420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't the assum- right < 1360177029 175046 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1360177029 360864 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1360177043 512012 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is this a weighted sum of other styles < 1360177043 880186 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hippocrates: greek physician, to the adventurer who can cause great damage. i swear that, compared with those fruits, the neck, claws, hooves, or from whence he came,... his great black battle-blade stormbringer, drank their souls. < 1360177049 53741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup fungot < 1360177049 276018 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: excalibur: at first then more slowly then in a long worm can be quite enchanting. it is even more muddled and confused. ( a field guide to the sea; there's no food. < 1360177053 812718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how do you do the invocation ritual? < 1360177054 26022 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meat*, huge chunk of meat: some say that no one notices the junk underneath a boulder is probably beneath you. the he closed his eyes, the alphabet, weights and measures, and bewailing her fatal error with many titles, and overcome all the cities bounding the circle sea, or a handloom, although they do not and did not kill his own food has arisen the legend that he does not imply being happy and that was the fruit like? < 1360177068 838694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"some say that no one notices the junk underneath a boulder is probably beneath you" < 1360177069 24694 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :�is523�k���52Ϳ�n�ffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? < 1360177072 756503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you are probably on top of the boulder" < 1360177074 483897 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'a i'a anmaster no not markov! < 1360177080 331110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wtf was /that/? < 1360177086 524730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? < 1360177086 710947 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anhur: an egyptian god of earthquakes as well. physically, he was such a tool is found by a howling wind. ( fog, by patrick mcgoohan) < 1360177093 458474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's meant to do that at all < 1360177096 740368 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your true form being revealed to us mere mortals. < 1360177103 555618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a corrupted version of my nick/username/etc < 1360177124 489236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? < 1360177124 674977 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: owlbear: owlbears are a cross between a human being and a convulsive motion agitated its limbs. tail entirely absent. growth is slow and sexual maturity reached at quite an experience. < 1360177146 660886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That seems very confused indeed. < 1360177146 846602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's probably a bad idea, my true form is depressingly similar to my normal form < 1360177160 917331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, I don't think it's meant to do that < 1360177165 369692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'll `addquote it < 1360177173 454610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? < 1360177173 640496 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're going into the surrounding walls and ceilings of the three gorgons or graeae, is not bad luck. < 1360177177 29373 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :955) Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? < 1360177200 253904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of like the nethack style, except it's perhaps a bit too ungrammatic often. < 1360177212 187793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you play a lot of NetHack? < 1360177212 374035 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: prisoner: where am i constant to my lair to die. ( the emperor's new mind, i don't doubt." and after nearly half a century in which feeding and growth occur, and a genuine amulet of yendor < 1360177235 265656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds quite dark. < 1360177251 186083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grim, even. < 1360177252 387778 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and or eldritch. feeding and growth occur. bletch. < 1360177332 480615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you have a GRIMoire? Is it GRIM? < 1360177332 666067 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: polymorph into an unknown being. a well-known tropical predator ( _panthera onca_) is a rewarding experience! < 1360177365 601438 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how many replies, until you invoke tentacles from outer dimensions? < 1360177365 824114 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: they say that fortune cookies are food for thought. < 1360177386 860993 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://j.mp/cpp11ref <--- nice overview of new C++11 stuff < 1360177423 877453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: genuine amulets of yendor are kind-of valuable, though < 1360177427 354254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an end to the grimness < 1360177519 913439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1360177531 77935 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A well-known tropical predator is a rewarding experience! How true. < 1360177666 886185 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1360177856 889248 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1360178100 864144 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1360178550 662840 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360178814 889319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you an animorph < 1360178815 75006 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they say that nurses sometimes carry scalpels and never use your best weapon to engrave a curse. i quickly ducked my head back and crawled away. < 1360179034 314628 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360179097 608520 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360179279 150621 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I'm learning C again < 1360179347 156475 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1360179433 625660 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that going < 1360179457 380729 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1360179483 295940 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote http://pastebin.com/TVp2BHXT to solve http://rosalind.info/problems/dna/ < 1360179555 328655 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360179602 526008 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360179652 590177 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360179679 949600 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable < 1360179684 449067 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want style advice < 1360179705 73407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :style advice don't use pastebin.com < 1360179713 589695 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that as well < 1360179737 208477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the people who don't hate pastebin.com are all people with adblock < 1360179752 909407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still bad tho even aside from the ads < 1360179863 768942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have adblock < 1360179864 660222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it < 1360179905 910421 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1360179925 869987 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to pastebin because hpaste was blocked for someone in another channel? < 1360179954 454273 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :codepad and gist are both fine < 1360179958 20180 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use sprunge??? i like sprunge < 1360179961 264746 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was that yes re: style advice?) < 1360179968 658129 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can be) < 1360180002 352437 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would do "int a=0, c=0, g=0, t=0;" since they're all zero < 1360180013 34207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i like to use C99 in which case you can do "for (int i = ...)" < 1360180068 817383 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of reading into a buffer, you could use getchar() (and count on stdin input buffering to make it perform acceptably) < 1360180105 743898 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I know the maximum length of input < 1360180117 567882 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it might be simpler code though < 1360180131 213217 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to have no buffer overflows is to have no buffers :) < 1360180139 495442 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360180158 472394 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the buffer that can be overflowed is not the true buffer. < 1360180179 73766 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360180659 217110 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360180707 24647 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360180976 948409 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, interviewer claimed that it's likely that I'm going to get an interview < 1360180995 872504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either tomorrow or next week < 1360181000 566498 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET < 1360181006 286809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can live with .NET < 1360181152 760574 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you??? < 1360181170 352844 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next week dot net < 1360181223 847279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are worse library frameworks < 1360181530 179386 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1360181577 734776 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360182095 269486 :TwilightSpockle!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1360182187 575330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1360182361 61607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, VB.NET? < 1360182362 873753 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it is < 1360182394 942995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VB.NET isn't as bad as previous BASICs < 1360182401 151547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basicaly C# with a stupid syntax < 1360182404 787107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and syntax is mostly unimportant < 1360182488 705248 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's C#, I don't know why I only mentioned the .NET part of it < 1360182524 834249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C# is basically Java with some extra dubious features added in, and different but mostly similar libraries < 1360182601 305799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdas "dubious" < 1360182618 999857 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love lambdas < 1360182620 476533 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are so easy < 1360182659 952655 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those dubious features turn an unbearable language into a bearable one < 1360182681 652395 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe I'm hasty in calling Java unbearable?) < 1360182717 343214 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say "java" three times to a dark mirror does steele come out and lecture you about operator overloading < 1360182724 760774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360182741 519635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C# is unbearable in its own way :) < 1360182747 966137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1360182782 348777 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it doesn't have first-class functions then I'm not sold < 1360182818 396860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: C# has first-class functions < 1360182822 286095 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VB.NET 2008 onwards has first-class functions < 1360182826 470508 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And first-class objects aren't a good substitute < 1360182829 561475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: C# has first-class functions < 1360182889 287117 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :java has things that try to pass themselves as poorly designed first class functions. it makes for a just not quite good enough substitute. < 1360182963 147190 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like having a good type system < 1360182971 12091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote if you say "java" three times to a dark mirror does steele come out and lecture you about operator overloading < 1360182974 979809 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :956) if you say "java" three times to a dark mirror does steele come out and lecture you about operator overloading < 1360183001 950413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: java has first class objects, and second class classes, which can contain third class methods ;) < 1360183005 349886 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think .NET doesn't do type erasure < 1360183025 331332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means more information at runtime, which is unrelated to the quality of the typesystem < 1360183082 232626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type erasure is a nasty backwards-compatibility thing, which fortunately tends not to matter too much in practice < 1360183137 731921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type erasure is kind of a red herring, the real problem is that java doesn't understand variance! < 1360183164 708678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact if you can do type erasure you probably should... < 1360183210 873559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: java attempts to understand variance, it's just broken < 1360183226 860798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can express covariant and contravariant generic types < 1360183238 30692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for whatever reason, it never actually seems to help < 1360183254 407998 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say java to a mirror three times, the mirror gets coated in boilerplate < 1360183257 275598 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they added it but forgot to use it < 1360183285 861074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :) < 1360183318 472339 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since nothing in the library has the variance it should have you pretty much never get to use it either < 1360183347 570631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the variances in the libraries actually just chosen at random? < 1360183350 162532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't help that mutability makes variance harder < 1360183352 137267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there reasons behind some of them? < 1360183354 538182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, indeed < 1360183378 512416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially mutability via pointers into return values < 1360183398 930034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I figured out variance, I realised why every programming language was crazy < 1360183415 806695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Verity's compiler understands variance < 1360183416 682761 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of languages < 1360183428 475110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't actually have polymorphism, so the variance control happens entirely internally < 1360183450 872380 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(huh, the etymology of "boilerplate" is neat) < 1360183508 35335 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Tell us < 1360183512 205132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fun fact: apparently, Eiffel treats function parameters as _covariant_ < 1360183515 870961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has subtyping < 1360183523 568661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the answer to "how does this work?" is "it doesn't" < 1360183526 959188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone else told me that fun fact recently < 1360183528 297463 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24.212.152.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360183533 132447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1360183539 248771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reaction was "are covariant function parameters actually useful for anything?" < 1360183540 579213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it edwardk? < 1360183545 67786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not sure, perhaps < 1360183562 507154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could call an output parameter a "covariant function parameter" < 1360183581 841839 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: plates from steel boilers were repurposed as letterplates for printing presses at newspapers < 1360183582 27306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yeah, that's a good point < 1360183599 373312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd just be calling something more reasonable by the same name as something terrible < 1360183633 1207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now I want to make an esolang called Hitler :( < 1360183643 37938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a bad idea though < 1360183659 78734 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How do you code in it? Repurposed Indian symbols? < 1360183664 443162 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use some other dictator, i'm sure noone will notice < 1360183674 105539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1360183674 558393 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you saying esolangs are reasonable? < 1360183675 650384 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could call it Himmler < 1360183678 468502 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Mussolini < 1360183680 485153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stick to more useful esolangs < 1360183681 525516 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Mao < 1360183685 711419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more purposeful < 1360183694 922984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may never invent anything else as good as Underload, but I can try < 1360183696 859164 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make haskell but better < 1360183708 616440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PSA: making esolangs with names that make me want to delete the page about them is bad for your health) < 1360183719 42687 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strip out the laziness, and all the fancy syntax < 1360183722 242601 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the type system better < 1360183754 376340 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instead of having most functions be pure, make ALL functions impure < 1360183766 411102 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every function has a side-effect, even if you don't want it to < 1360183771 43376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: that's "haskell but better"? < 1360183772 852494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think Eodermdrome is your third-best esolang < 1360183777 554827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just "haskell but esoer"? < 1360183779 303166 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I got carried away < 1360183780 307337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's the second-best? < 1360183785 71614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Underload < 1360183789 287398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1360183792 27630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the best then? < 1360183806 360818 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1360183807 348752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: best is Feather, because I'm pretty sure not actually existing because your creator gave up on you because you were too confusing is the best achievement an esolang can make < 1360183811 992345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I like Eodermdrome too, despite the utter lack of practicality < 1360183814 322913 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: instead of stripping out laziness, put side effects in the thunks < 1360183822 705694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I forgot about Feather < 1360183826 531725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually genuinely forgot) < 1360183826 846017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1360183829 426806 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Evil < 1360183847 835487 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. haskell with implicit unsafePerformIO < 1360183850 215241 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Make seq only work half of the time too < 1360183855 872650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing non-strictness would make Haskell worse < 1360183857 29614 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: given that "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" and the sound of /ˈæmbiːɛf/ are good esolang names, what's a bad esolang name < 1360183862 966444 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd lose basic composability < 1360183874 750944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: "Esme" < 1360183876 413379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm… exposure to The Game (if you don't know about it, please don't look it up) now means that some things require me something like 10 seconds and a concious mental effort to remember < 1360183892 707901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes me like a minute to remember the rules, even if I try < 1360183895 777568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally I get bored by then < 1360183899 232288 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you sure that's the name rather than the everything else < 1360183904 751146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck" is an underappreciated esolang name < 1360183913 261906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's a good esolang too < 1360183945 617162 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :good wiki page too < 1360183945 975005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can take credit for suggesting the idea behind it, even if I didn't do any definition of the name or the semantics < 1360183950 763012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys remember http://esolangs.org/wiki/Object_(programming_language) < 1360183956 932152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1360183957 848228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, all the other languages that guy made < 1360183958 34602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :single sentence afaict < 1360183958 433353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I? < 1360183964 284861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah but it's a run-on sentence < 1360183968 844324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Parnassus ? < 1360183973 724678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the syntax highlighting that makes them memorable < 1360183976 389815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1360183978 860739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the badness < 1360183990 945945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should make that esolang I was going to < 1360183995 349648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it's based around overlapping brackets < 1360183996 35786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parnassus isn't exactly syntax highlighted < 1360184004 192823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comment is in an almost unreadable shade of pink < 1360184010 62089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that it's all the same color and font < 1360184027 433344 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is Object a shitty parody of Java, is that what I'm looking at here < 1360184031 48996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: INTERCAL allows scopes that don't nest correctly < 1360184040 981895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to its use of manual lexical scoping < 1360184043 96732 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360184047 541293 :atriq!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360184051 282520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by overlapping, I mean (ab[cd)ef] < 1360184055 237636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall just have to make the Ëơđëřmđřơmë dialect, which has a large enough alphabet to be practical. < 1360184057 572814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, I mean that too < 1360184062 533961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure how the language will use those to compute < 1360184064 16674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will < 1360184067 749012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may even have used that syntax to explain the concept to you, al ong time ago < 1360184070 123671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a long time < 1360184083 134537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think Eodermdrome has a large enough alphabet to be TC < 1360184086 216379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't actually /know/ < 1360184090 503727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it works by rewriting the program to have brackets balanced in a normal manner < 1360184099 365279 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to refresh my memory of Feather. now I remember why I retroactively forgot about it. < 1360184102 51515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that involves shuffling them around in a way that's TC < 1360184109 992353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, the overlapping has to actually be interesting < 1360184114 178112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360184114 814134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just a syntactic veneer < 1360184137 29057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, one of my better languages I never even put on the esowiki < 1360184146 692742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its name started Sh, let me look up the rest of it < 1360184156 987852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shove, apparently < 1360184158 680293 :atriq!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1360184159 671508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't know what goes between the brackets < 1360184160 928655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: "Esme" <-- are you saying that would be a bad name if it had otherwise been an interesting language? < 1360184175 960499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly primitives, possibly arbitrary text (that gets outputted?) < 1360184178 414214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was kidding < 1360184180 373750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems I don't have a spec, but I do have an interp < 1360184182 546145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall I pastebin it? < 1360184192 868948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1360184208 925383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/YaOJ < 1360184220 244752 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have the spec for my first ever esolang lying about somewhere < 1360184222 971798 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is awful < 1360184225 676200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1360184226 840410 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful awful awfuk < 1360184228 27474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a BF derivative < 1360184236 473873 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sort of < 1360184243 683578 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Ook! derivative < 1360184250 266643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, seriously? < 1360184252 170777 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds worse < 1360184254 905386 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1360184261 222641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slightly more creative, I think? < 1360184267 327992 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by transitivity, it is a BF derivative too. < 1360184272 427938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an Ook! derivative is the kind of thing the wiki should have < 1360184277 722951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the art of it < 1360184281 845885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make an underload derivative, nobody would expect that. < 1360184284 393087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it should just be a BF derivative < 1360184286 730422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Shove is TC, I think; you can compile Underload into it < 1360184287 238288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but claimed as an Ook! derivative < 1360184293 235623 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, should I dig out the specs for it? < 1360184296 801155 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends < 1360184303 849456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this to work, it'd have to be a trivial equivalent that replaces all the operations with something else < 1360184309 103438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Sprunge's syntax highlighting can't handle tr///, it seems < 1360184315 207417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, for the joke to work, the something else should be not related to "Ook!", I think < 1360184320 106058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it should be BF-like < 1360184326 738471 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is more along the lines of "Ook! with more commands" < 1360184327 110736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly with slightly different commands < 1360184331 316727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should find all trivial derivatives of brainfuck on the wiki and arrange them in a chain < 1360184331 568335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is already a "Moo!" or something I think < 1360184341 994241 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cow < 1360184349 946189 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a blog post about it < 1360184353 52663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :← → + - ( ) ? ! < 1360184358 742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1360184358 673931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I think Eodermdrome has a large enough alphabet to be TC <-- um i already made BCT in it. sheesh. i mean large enough that you could actually write an interesting program without encoding the algorithm in the input. i guess you really want an infinite alphabet. < 1360184368 256616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, I see < 1360184368 943582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people who make BF derivatives don't believe Unicode exists < 1360184371 341432 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean, Phantom_Hoover wrote a blog post about it < 1360184377 378237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, /is/ Eodermdrome TC? Or is it just curly-L? < 1360184385 219087 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and then make it circular, so like "Ook! is a BF derivate. X is a Ook! derivative. ... Brainfuck is a Y derivative" < 1360184393 142703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all those characters are in CP343 < 1360184396 118166 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do that on the 1st of April < 1360184412 759756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that sounds like a pain < 1360184417 495285 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1360184421 629561 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of work involved < 1360184423 773517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we could vandalise our brainfuck article to claim it's a [terrible BF derivative] derivative < 1360184430 740349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be marginally funny < 1360184436 189968 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Ellipsis derivative < 1360184439 883233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the way Shove works, is it has an Underload-like stack, and a 2D playfield < 1360184445 237276 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah that is less work but still okay for 1 April < 1360184454 821085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has instructions to change the direction of execution < 1360184487 154937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will push quoted strings onto the stack: strings can be quoted with ' or with ", and they nest inside each other indefinitely deep (INTERCAL-style) < 1360184491 949197 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, inspired by befunge? < 1360184503 344464 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it allow self modification? < 1360184512 154074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are four commands A V ( ) that push the stack back onto the playfield, pushing the entire rest of the program out of the way to make room < 1360184516 320324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhere between Befunge and Underload < 1360184522 134935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, self-modification is required < 1360184523 688899 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what is the intercal style of nesting " and ' < 1360184533 692522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternating < 1360184538 77732 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1360184556 704967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually in INTERCAL they don't have to alternate, a ' or " is an opening ' or " if it couldn't, based on context, be a closing one < 1360184567 927575 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1360184572 138658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Shove's grammar isn't complex enough for that, so it's strictly alternating < 1360184585 413985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is the actual definition, and what's implemented into the compiler :) < 1360184600 828514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch, that sounds painful < 1360184601 795639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do something like '#1~'#1~#1'' < 1360184604 193603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works < 1360184616 995222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time it really matters which of ' or " you use is in array indexing < 1360184633 750983 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this the thing that makes the parser LR(inf) iirc? < 1360184641 377770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that case is sufficiently confusing that the original INTERCAL-72 programmers couldn't get it to work, so they just wrote into the definition of the language that it doesn't work wihtout alternating < 1360184661 808026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an yeah, it makes the parser LR(infinity) unless you put a restriction on like the one that's in the language definition, and that C-INTERCAL and INTERCAL-72 use < 1360184670 722100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL, of course, just parses the LR(infinity) language < 1360184686 175072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'd be entirely out of character for it not to) < 1360184686 360722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the restriction, but I remember hating it < 1360184698 188060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought you used some LR(inf) bison extension? < 1360184722 805564 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have confused it with CLC < 1360184729 171724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if a ' or " could syntactically be closing with no characters of lookahead, it's a syntax error if it later turns out to have been opening after all < 1360184736 290577 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, how do you manage parsing LR(inf)? < 1360184738 955338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't use GLR; CLC doesn't either, I think it uses backtracking < 1360184748 869931 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, GLR? < 1360184756 871501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the LR(inf) bison extension < 1360184760 610117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1360184764 323452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, CLC-INTERCAL's parser is written entirely in CLC-INTERCAL < 1360184769 61907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it very hard to follow < 1360184769 485771 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use it? < 1360184775 432779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I should make an underload derivative, nobody would expect that. <-- i am pretty sure Fueue counts partially as one. also Ftack, even if that's useless. < 1360184778 969764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1360184781 105698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in IACC < 1360184786 777755 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I know, that was the joke < 1360184809 68947 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fueue is very much inspired by Underload < 1360184811 264788 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, actually I only knew about the first < 1360184814 790203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should look at Fueue some time < 1360184815 86543 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not the second one < 1360184816 281453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet < 1360184831 133197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at it
< 1360184849 666291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" If the queue reaches this last stage many times and so does a full rotation without changing at all, a character is taken from input and its unicode value is added to the back of the queue. " < 1360184852 349637 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I should make Befunge-98 EE < 1360184853 50717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's genius :) < 1360184871 511912 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's marvellously hideous to program with < 1360184876 562846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1360184881 772155 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think only one person has written programs in it < 1360184887 630581 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that person is oerjan < 1360184889 357361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Thutu's I/O, but at least three steps more evil < 1360184890 610670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, "many times"? < 1360184897 749158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, how many times is that < 1360184903 689631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Thutu, you merely have to turn your entire program inside-out < 1360184905 788239 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, [length of stack] < 1360184912 814741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is at least a mechanical translation < 1360184917 46920 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ah < 1360184917 807838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: *[length of queue] < 1360184923 932612 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[length of thingy] < 1360184979 332252 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that is a terribly hard to use way to handle input < 1360184980 423743 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1360184999 130108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I haven't seen I/O so brilliantly bad in a while < 1360185008 131899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb deserves a reward for that < 1360185011 593601 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this even capable of general IO? < 1360185018 802460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah < 1360185020 461562 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets call that BF-complete < 1360185023 38351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Give Taneb a reward. < 1360185023 224193 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: tired? try a steeplechase." the celebration which had been dormant for years was revived as part of his seed unto molech, and i cast you from the third was taller than the orc that one word he did outpour. nothing further then he bit off the hand at the brutes and he is sometimes an effective remedy. < 1360185023 671839 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1360185041 227460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue is just constructing a program state that locks up and accepts input < 1360185050 939126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Your reward sounds a bit iffy, you might opt out of that. < 1360185051 137918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does something useful afterwards < 1360185055 185285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting to that state probably isn't so hard < 1360185065 420462 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, getting out of it sounds annoying < 1360185081 307504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1360185102 881153 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Fueue, the null program is a cat, although it doesn't handle end of file." <-- one that doesn't actually concatenate files either I assume? < 1360185109 23625 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1360185124 421459 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is that where "cat" comes from?) < 1360185126 56302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I approve of Fueue < 1360185130 119848 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1360185132 763164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, yes < 1360185135 660618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call it an Underload derivative, more an Underload-inspired language < 1360185137 557711 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, see man 1 cat < 1360185140 672600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually, /is/ Eodermdrome TC? Or is it just curly-L? <-- i remain devoted to the opinion that "TC" proper includes things that need the input of a programming language as part of the conversion from a TM with input tape to it. < 1360185147 861764 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, it's function is to concatenate files < 1360185154 138385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like curly-L, anyway, it's actually well-defined < 1360185155 660173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike TC < 1360185157 328061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, not to just copy stdin to stdout < 1360185160 224499 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1360185168 26491 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn something every day < 1360185173 124487 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1360185173 719108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, doesn't Eodermdrome /have/ input? < 1360185214 707463 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which one is curly-L? < 1360185238 142796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: capable of expressing at least one interpreter for a TC language < 1360185245 453349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360185255 127344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't need to be able to do anything else < 1360185264 194176 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, wouldn't that imply the language is itself TC? < 1360185265 704923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to be a philosophical problem whether it's equivalent to TC or not < 1360185301 855758 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even the pathological case of @ = execute bf interpreter and quit could be argued to the TC < 1360185305 715522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not useful, but TC < 1360185310 626289 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely curly-L < 1360185323 126041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's curly-L pretty much by definition < 1360185326 607671 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, speaking of which, is that the math-curly L symbol we are talking about here < 1360185333 976354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92 < 1360185335 308117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, why that symbol < 1360185343 396740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because cpressey chose it < 1360185348 852124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cpressey is the best esolanger at naming things < 1360185351 797365 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1360185356 546015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't really want to argue with him/her < 1360185417 974778 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was pretty sure it was a him? < 1360185424 185342 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I could of course be wrong < 1360185430 21457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well Chris is a gender-ambiguous name, and I've never met them < 1360185430 207196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you new to ais523 < 1360185462 766146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, I'm the evil twin of Vorpal, having taken over his computer while he didn't look. < 1360185465 332536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is why I like mafiascum.net; many people explicitly state their gender to simplify things, and when they don't, there's a pretty high proportion of wrong guesses, both ways < 1360185495 711761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have you figured out how to make his scrollback bigger? < 1360185498 427530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd help him out a lot < 1360185530 546114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, I'm having Vorpal-like scrollback trouble on occasion < 1360185537 731843 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, alas, I hacked the bouncer, not the client proper < 1360185542 617100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Konversation's scope for bizarre typos has apparently expanded to include one that clears my scrollback < 1360185555 347129 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cpressey ever going to come back to this channel, or is it a part of #esoteric's troubled and tortured past that he isn't here anymore? < 1360185580 791292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: he doesn't really enjoy being here, and I don't really blame him < 1360185581 198665 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, I'd say it is a .5/.5 chance < 1360185591 174593 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so, certain? < 1360185592 112320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he's sort-of permanently RL busy < 1360185602 145490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me nowadays, except I come here anyway ;) < 1360185607 137176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't really worked on actual esolanging for a while, though < 1360185616 613360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought cpressey just left because it was a timesink < 1360185622 324634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to, but Anarchy and Underlambda are both lots of work < 1360185622 576008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though him hating us also seems perfectly likely < 1360185625 871349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is of course an excellent time to start implementing Feather? < 1360185627 87297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's what I meant, I just didn't say it < 1360185634 537122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Feather is even /more/ of a timesink < 1360185640 94703 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true that < 1360185640 317521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the last time he was in here was as ZOMGMODULES I think < 1360185648 680379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he'll come again next time he goes to pycon < 1360185659 203229 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is a thing? < 1360185661 528312 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pycon? < 1360185662 889411 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1360185672 436955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, getting out of it sounds annoying <-- yep it is. < 1360185672 844053 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it only makes sense < 1360185673 420778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why /wouldn't/ python have conferences? < 1360185674 397673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly sure how this is remotely surprising < 1360185682 640871 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how do you do it? < 1360185689 719094 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1360185703 24962 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I just never imaged it being a thing < 1360185712 299690 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt there is a shell-script con though < 1360185720 959835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you surprised at Perl having conferences too? < 1360185732 81353 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm less so than python in fact < 1360185743 666597 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I would bet the ruby guys have one < 1360185748 170230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem the type < 1360185763 438477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1360185763 807240 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there totally needs to be TECOCON < 1360185773 28598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually use TECO nowadays? < 1360185779 404886 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not < 1360185784 613747 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bashcon < 1360185789 935855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, make it a reality < 1360185840 33221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just looking at the main page < 1360185844 286839 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my betterave was once compared to TECO. that was one of my proudest moments. < 1360185849 798910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the standard example of a "just plain weird" language? < 1360185855 165359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esme < 1360185860 958783 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, what is betterave < 1360185864 935265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL aims to be unique, and Malbolge for being difficult to program in < 1360185867 631223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, that'll do < 1360185874 672093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the correct case for esme, anyway? < 1360185876 818364 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Betterave < 1360185884 151274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esme, I think < 1360185884 761003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :titlecase? all-uppercase? brainfuck-case? lowercase? < 1360185895 219335 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, esme is a joke lang though < 1360185902 118341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1360185916 344006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own personal theory was that it was created to troll zzo38 < 1360185952 821064 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiight < 1360185959 108137 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1360185964 396616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: think about it < 1360185965 947749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that would work < 1360185966 210044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i make it happen between )$ and a block, then the block gets duplicated as many times as the character read, and then the first one is executed, which can start a chain reaction that increments a 0 back up to the original value, but inside a block. < 1360185987 14167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: clever < 1360185989 690230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sec, need to load up the page again < 1360186022 783469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a Rails conference, I'm pretty sure. < 1360186024 23484 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh yeah that *is* clever < 1360186038 230612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: apparently C++ guarantees static_cast(NULL) == NULL < 1360186044 711717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And EuroForth is still being arranged, and is the most prestigious of the big international Forth conferences. < 1360186054 466251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know if there are any other that count.) < 1360186062 945148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also the "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity" on the main page made me laugh out loud, probably because I hadn't seen it for months < 1360186064 762924 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are *multiple* forth conferences? < 1360186067 563747 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, hm, close but not quite like TECO < 1360186067 903582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in cases where static_cast needs to apply an offset (multiple inheritance) it has to include a NULL check < 1360186079 665902 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, too easy to read < 1360186096 990361 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know, I was young and naïf. < 1360186097 976375 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, reminds me more of dc < 1360186105 842160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: "naïve" < 1360186113 734477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, which is childs play to code in of corse < 1360186115 399640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :course* < 1360186123 829358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people normally just write it "naive", but in #esoteric we know better :) < 1360186143 224099 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as a French speaker, I have a hard time describing myself as «naïve», as it is feminine. < 1360186159 788435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yeah, but English almost doesn't have grammatical gender < 1360186172 709163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: EuroForth is a three-day conference, but then immediately after there's a "4th-day". < 1360186189 944235 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not a ship, therefore I am not feminine. QED. < 1360186211 273976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: but there's only one form of the adjective in English < 1360186220 420003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which applies to all of masculine, feminine, and neuter < 1360186227 816004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except with neuter, some anthropomorphising is required) < 1360186229 342028 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? What do they do then < 1360186257 101795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's something slightly more social, but they don't seem to have all that much of a web presence, so it's hard to say. < 1360186269 322067 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't burst my bubble of broken English :p < 1360186274 397402 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1360186300 460992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As usual there will be the option of staying for a "4th Day" until Monday 18th for additional networking time and allowing delegates to see more of the area." (From the EuroForth 2006 call.) < 1360186330 159539 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidental pun? < 1360186344 208179 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.232.87 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1360186351 173361 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fueue is the language I'm most proud of < 1360186356 949838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: with a name like "forth", accidental puns are reasonably inevitable < 1360186357 135659 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I still prefer Luigi) < 1360186363 67016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although the name itself was an intentional pun, IIRC) < 1360186417 485441 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can I be a wiki admin so I can do featured language stuff? < 1360186427 830589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… if we had an esoteric language called "accidentally" < 1360186433 281991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a noun as well as a verb and an adverb < 1360186439 936050 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't it a file name length limit on some early system? < 1360186449 336146 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could accidentally a word? < 1360186450 464587 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I completely misremember it < 1360186454 75524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps, or it may just have been in homage to them < 1360186456 671765 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1360186458 258054 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I accidentally accidentally accidentally" < 1360186460 300443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's the verb form of accidentally < 1360186494 694175 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how it is a verb < 1360186495 412525 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is getting better by visiting this channel.. < 1360186502 55922 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it is only an adverb? < 1360186505 649374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: boily just used it as a verb < 1360186509 862428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the verb form is an internet meme, though < 1360186522 955453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing is that the verb itself doesn't exist < 1360186530 472294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you leave it to the listener's brain to fill in the blank < 1360186530 712935 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is a noun < 1360186535 67759 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: we'll just go ahead and esoteric your english < 1360186535 907905 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err adjective < 1360186536 931271 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1360186540 892284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I accidentally the source repository, is this bad?" < 1360186542 669842 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to a google < 1360186557 152203 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1360186563 24222 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accidentally man stopped and faced me, raising the oerjan above his head threateningly < 1360186570 677358 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so wrong then: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accidentally < 1360186575 74899 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how can you have evaded this meme? < 1360186577 544984 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnet claims it is an adverb < 1360186581 687130 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes far more sense < 1360186584 521120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an adverb, normally < 1360186590 665911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION accidentally the entire meme :(
< 1360186592 821015 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1360186593 516586 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the -ly words are adverbs < 1360186602 789324 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that says that "accidental" is an adjective. < 1360186603 646670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I know of it, I just refuse to acknowledge it. < 1360186612 416287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this is English, there's probably an exception /somewhere/ < 1360186620 217571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, most -ly words are adverbs < 1360186620 403436 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "accidental" as a noun is pretty common in music. < 1360186622 213498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, yes which is wrong I think < 1360186632 204938 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the -ly adverbs are adverbs < 1360186632 687252 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the adjective bit < 1360186635 236828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sly" is an adjective < 1360186637 842950 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wordnet claims adverb < 1360186640 662574 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it is < 1360186645 933382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slyly < 1360186647 102997 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"accidental" isn't an adverb, "accidentally" is < 1360186659 912024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, there's a language called Vorpal? < 1360186663 263739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw it on the deadfish page < 1360186668 471393 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the accidental argument is really starting to seem pointless to Bike" < 1360186676 45178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay just a confusing page < 1360186690 436208 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the page name was http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accidentally I assumed it would be about that word < 1360186692 166239 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit < 1360186707 560313 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty common to fold derived terms like that < 1360186710 163810 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dictionaries < 1360186727 561531 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote accidentally < 1360186728 896395 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :157) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 275) BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN \ 716) oops I accidentally deleted the universe looks weird when you put a verb after acci < 1360186733 489440 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess they could have redirected you at least < 1360186755 479186 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, accidentally some more quotes there < 1360186764 4034 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, yeah it fooled me though < 1360186784 747169 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I accidentally an accidental in the chorus" < 1360186792 898616 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH! I knew the universe could be destroyed! 716 proves it! < 1360186800 584224 :Bike!~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaand that's semantic satiation for me. < 1360186811 498247 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 716 < 1360186812 953902 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :716) oops I accidentally deleted the universe looks weird when you put a verb after accidentally like that < 1360186818 777543 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 100 < 1360186820 126613 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :100) like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... < 1360186863 892977 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in hindsight I should've said "another verb" < 1360186867 796522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo A | fueue ')~$)[[~~~~()+1][0]$%~~1)][)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[H]~]][]' #Let's see if this improved input method works < 1360186868 428542 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking about memes. All your accidentally us. < 1360186869 788775 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.. \ ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ < 1360186880 240498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ^ < 1360186890 35732 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo A | fueue -e ')~$)[[~~~~()+1][0]$%~~1)][)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[H]~]][]' #Let's see if this improved input method works < 1360186891 602457 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.. \ ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ < 1360186901 225089 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, that one pretty much died out I think < 1360186916 233222 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo A | fueue -e ")~$)[[~~~~()+1][0]$%~~1)][)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[H]~]][]" < 1360186917 731328 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.. \ ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ < 1360186921 428182 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo A | fueue ")~$)[[~~~~()+1][0]$%~~1)][)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[H]~]][]" < 1360186922 950300 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​.. \ ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������ < 1360186925 413704 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1360186954 214175 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: beaten to death until it died over and over again < 1360186987 700329 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, true < 1360186999 149503 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think accidentally and finnish are my favourite verbs < 1360187020 492652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37:39 huh, there's a language called Vorpal? < 1360187020 678246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:37:43 I just saw it on the deadfish page < 1360187021 392831 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1360187022 706825 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​���H�%���!��.�3YR��9}ƍ�R���ei��б��6�u�\ޟ��]�q����Io{�_��ib��mSݻ}.N6��͕"�^��`���/�=���S2�����t�>dHǪS�1h�D_+H�d��#υjh�#?ݶ�p��H��슣6x]&r�1�rԉ����� < 1360187023 236623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: blame cpressey < 1360187045 893777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did he name it after Vorpal, or is it coincidence? < 1360187049 251716 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the /dev/urandom < 1360187076 294119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat -v /dev/urandom < 1360187077 485502 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `cat --help' for more information. < 1360187081 637302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ais523: I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is getting better by visiting this channel.. < 1360187083 686535 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat -v /dev/urandom < 1360187083 872201 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it looks like a non-esolang? < 1360187085 367518 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :957) ais523: I'm not sure my grasp of the English language is getting better by visiting this channel.. < 1360187086 395019 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-(M-L{PM-7LiM-^K^D>?M-$M-jM-V,^[i^Yf3^^AM-WM-(M-^]M-_2M-OM-uM-(M-PYM-^F ^_M-LIKM-@M-^FM-^EM->6dM-^HKfM-p{M-@^O^UM-0K;M-9^K^PM-^ZM-(M-]^^KM-^TM-YM-VM-uN+^GBNM-zM-VM-;^kM-^W^XM-zM-vM-^\iM-DM-}^ZcM-^M-EHM-^@M-5M-'fM-;\M-qM-fM-^D4Qmj* M-gM-`^PM-v^M-^OI?7oPHM-AM-^Zy^KM-bM-8oW>:m!M-EAM-t>#PM-k:"M-^XhBM-0M-/M-tM-V-M-Q^]M-aM-^ZM-"M-|FM-=M-KM-_M-tc^Y2^HM-j < 1360187096 733015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I didn't say it was an esolang < 1360187099 944471 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no link to it either < 1360187104 29068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he didn't make it < 1360187126 215778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, just wrote a deadfish interp in it? < 1360187131 375027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1360187134 507041 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it this one? https://code.google.com/p/vorpalcode/ < 1360187136 993725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360187147 716049 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote boily < 1360187149 437544 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :944) boily: the man eating chicken is just a normal man, it's quite common to eat chicken in some parts of the world \ 945) ~eval 1+2 Error (127): this is a great bot boily i love it \ 954) not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday. \ 957) ais523: I'm not sure my < 1360187170 266801 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so bad history. could have been worse :D < 1360187189 197994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : all the -ly words are adverbs <-- holy shit batman < 1360187219 778350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval 1+2 < 1360187228 975978 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec... < 1360187229 161634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, cuttlefish isn't here < 1360187244 985299 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360187260 466723 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: どうぞ… < 1360187265 532283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep that program was buggy < 1360187273 978959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval 1+2 < 1360187276 157358 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1360187283 184604 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look ma, no bugs! < 1360187291 414100 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval Error (127): < 1360187291 870725 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): :1:13: < 1360187292 56365 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) < 1360187308 270828 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1360187316 126379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that looks a lot like a Python error message < 1360187323 680498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's haskell < 1360187330 439073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1360187340 800573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I shouldn't feed python to it, then < 1360187347 161300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: run fueue '...' is the correct format, the program is just buggy < 1360187353 854006 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay < 1360187368 627144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval id 4 < 1360187368 812721 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always try. I guess an error 127 will be spewed out as usual, or something. < 1360187369 121857 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1360187378 615711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Haskell < 1360187383 261456 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1360187396 886255 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval let fix f = let x = f x in x in fix (\r n -> if n == 0 then 1 else n * r (n - 1)) 8 < 1360187397 311668 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :40320 < 1360187397 527090 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *do* hope it's haskell. < 1360187399 468312 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1360187400 605538 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval let fix f = let x = f x in x in fix (\r n -> if n == 0 then 1 else n * r (n - 1)) 10 < 1360187401 122024 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3628800 < 1360187417 90241 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Haskell < 1360187424 633593 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval fix$(<$>)<$>(:)<*>((<$>((:[{- thor's mother -}])<$>))(=<<)<$>(*)<$>(*2))$1 < 1360187425 58981 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,262144,524288,1048576,2097152,4194304,8388608,16777216,33554432,67108864,134217728,268435456,536870912,1073741824,2147483648,4294967296,8589934592,17179869184,34359738368,68719476736,137438953472,274877906944,549755813888,1099511627776,2199023255552,4398046511104,8796093022208,17592186044416,35184372088832,70368744177664,140737488355328,281474976710656,5629 < 1360187450 351330 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what does thor's mother have to do with anything? < 1360187460 639502 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, it's just a comment < 1360187462 686325 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, also I'm a bit disappointed that was not actually part of the program < 1360187471 362417 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I know, that is why I asked why it was there < 1360187487 969085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway who was thor's mother < 1360187490 828216 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know ... I didn't write that part < 1360187492 129393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Maybe it's there to help the maintenance programmer? < 1360187501 496088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh of course < 1360187504 777121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a reasonable reason for comments. < 1360187506 711901 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :how silly of me not to think of that < 1360187529 329775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: what types does it evaluate? just things in Show, or can you give it IO actions? < 1360187537 452561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval interact id < 1360187537 951344 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) < 1360187538 137153 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M1409069964351145295.show_M1409069964351145295' < 1360187538 137328 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible fix: < 1360187538 137437 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : add an instance declaration for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) < 1360187542 407813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just things in Show, it seems < 1360187544 601498 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval cosh 7 ^ 2 - sinh 7 ^ 2 < 1360187545 66263 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.9999999999417923 < 1360187554 457777 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rounding error :O < 1360187554 971256 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no IO. it's running on my work machine, and it would be embarassing to have it crash at inopportune moments. < 1360187559 897965 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval cosh 7 ^ 2 - sinh 7 ^ 2 :: CReal < 1360187560 381266 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): Not in scope: type constructor or class `CReal' < 1360187560 566949 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you meant `Real' (imported from Prelude) < 1360187562 740201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: indeed < 1360187578 768695 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cosh 7 ^ 2 - sinh 7 ^ 2 :: CReal < 1360187579 400425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn("test") < 1360187579 807207 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): Not in scope: `unsafePerformIO' < 1360187580 453011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.0 < 1360187581 190757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jörð (as in, "earth") is apparently Thor's mother. < 1360187582 874631 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to have it running on a random VM at work once, but the attempt failed. < 1360187584 770656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just making sure :) < 1360187604 662144 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, I took every available precautions before running that kludge here. < 1360187608 54251 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you guys. < 1360187611 562134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: definitely :) < 1360187621 934023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I suspect it can be thwarted < 1360187625 707848 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1360187627 879988 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when people found a Perl injection hole in Rodney (#nethack's bot) < 1360187637 320273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone used the hole to get the bot to kill -9 itself, and it was widely considered a good idea < 1360187641 898065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval instance Num () where fromInteger _ = () < 1360187642 268486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it was used to cause more damage < 1360187642 453994 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): :1:1: parse error on input `instance' < 1360187646 766890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so no statements < 1360187664 669969 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I probably haven't stressed it as much as HackEgo or EgoBot, but I believe it to be solid enough. < 1360187666 647908 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval v < 1360187667 158568 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): Not in scope: `v' < 1360187677 909452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the only security hole the students found in my OCaml sandbox was using the FFI to access parts of the standard library they weren't meant to < 1360187686 294276 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's using a very small subset of haskell, eval'ed with mueval. < 1360187692 685097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our Scheme course had a Scheme REPL bot, and boy did it have holes. (They did get patched quite quickly after on-channel demonstrations.) < 1360187710 708243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, I didn't know that. < 1360187720 735389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm reminded of the e-reader that came with a setuid helper program < 1360187728 383386 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It looks like a C-style cast behaves the same way. < 1360187730 718937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people demonstrated security bugs in it, the author reacted by fixing just the bug shown < 1360187737 949065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well, you can have security holes even with mueval < 1360187743 789674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: the only security hole the students found in my OCaml sandbox was using the FFI to access parts of the standard library they weren't meant to <-- how did you fix that? < 1360187749 379148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: what GHC version is it on? < 1360187754 345331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: manually looking at the code and bitching at them if they tried to use it < 1360187774 779198 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't you fix it properly though? < 1360187781 796774 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eeeeeh... I think 7.6.1. < 1360187784 175699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes but I had to look at the code anyway < 1360187786 60314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there was no point < 1360187791 894700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval let unsafeCoerce v = z where z :: v; z = v where aux = const v in unsafeCoerce (5::Double)::Int < 1360187792 131256 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1360187792 340148 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): Couldn't match expected type `v1' with actual type `t' < 1360187792 525854 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `v1' is a rigid type variable bound by < 1360187792 711497 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the type signature for z :: v1 at :1:35 < 1360187792 711699 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : `t' is a rigid type variable bound by < 1360187792 711811 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : the inferred type of unsafeCoerce :: t -> v at :1:5 < 1360187797 350262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1360187798 629232 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott: http://hpaste.org/81905 < 1360187800 939666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody found a way to escape the /other/ sandbox < 1360187804 692562 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1360187807 470176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it couldn't be used to damage the system it was running on < 1360187820 455017 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was about to do that! < 1360187823 910688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think C cast does the same thing as static_cast in the cases where the latter is valid < 1360187825 870056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's too new < 1360187826 904777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1360187832 921325 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I'm reminded of the e-reader that came with a setuid helper program <-- why would an e-reader need a suid helper? < 1360187840 965684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it didn't, this was part of the problem < 1360187847 5302 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :riight < 1360187854 270016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was used to mount the e-reader itself on your computer < 1360187864 49134 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Calibre, actually. < 1360187865 310945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(string->symbol "foo\nIRC COMMAND :goes here\nwhatever") was one somewhat nasty one; the output filtering didn't catch symbols with newlines in their names. < 1360187865 577723 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1360187868 840582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pointed out that there were already well-debugged setuid programs that did that sort of thing < 1360187872 592245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, I forgot the name < 1360187889 436142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, it makes sense, if it has the offset anyway. < 1360187908 765365 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, speaking of suid, do you happen to know what /usr/lib/pt_chown is? < 1360187916 692237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval data Foo < 1360187916 878272 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is owned by glibc on most distros < 1360187917 136105 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): :1:1: parse error on input `data' < 1360187925 26173 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :never bothered to look into what it was < 1360187933 31848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's suid and owned by root on mine < 1360187939 458405 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same < 1360187941 865383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't have a man page < 1360187942 465532 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is it for < 1360187953 627672 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to disappear in the great frigid void. < 1360187955 819687 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1360187959 265083 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is in /usr/lib, so presumably not meant to be executed by hand < 1360187959 760844 :cuttlefish!~cuttlefis@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1360187968 300604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd lists only linux-gate, libc, and ld-linux.so < 1360187974 869539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try a web search < 1360187989 633311 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nm -D is not very helpful either < 1360187992 192351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: man grantpt. < 1360188002 917436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: aha, apparently it creates pseudoterminals < 1360188008 562828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on systems without devpts support < 1360188022 957641 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360188023 185755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires doing mknod, = requires being root < 1360188033 532175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My "NOTES" section of grantpt(3) mentions pt_chown.) < 1360188038 415904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1360188042 895591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have much the same grantpt(3) < 1360188052 902283 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't required, why is the binary on my system < 1360188075 300732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Does it actually *create* them, as opposed to just setting ownership? < 1360188105 91737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good point < 1360188109 748610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reownering them would make sense < 1360188119 229740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kubuntu are apparently considering getting rid of it < 1360188123 281072 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1360188125 796664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of a sweep of inappropriately setuided things < 1360188129 684276 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not ubuntu? < 1360188151 869820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it sounds like the sort of patch which would probably be shared between them, don't you think? < 1360188152 91891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 18824 jan 1 04:03 /usr/lib/chromium/chromium-sandbox < 1360188157 830984 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is interesting permissions < 1360188175 677441 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does chromium need to be suid < 1360188192 364161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, I think I know this one, it's for doing chrooting and unsharing < 1360188192 588730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it uses chroot < 1360188200 604902 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, unsharing? < 1360188212 442730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's sort-of generalised chroot, it gives you different namespaces for things than the rest of the system < 1360188221 696155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can request that you have your own entirely separate set of PIDs, for instance < 1360188231 125745 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360188231 311316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an entirely different set of sockets < 1360188234 418744 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 245064 aug 24 09:06 /usr/lib/openssh/ssh-keysign <-- sorry, what? < 1360188282 524688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you should look into man 2 unshare if you care about doing any sort of sandboxing in usermode < 1360188287 325482 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwsr-xr-- 1 root dip 318912 jun 22 2012 /usr/sbin/pppd <-- also what? < 1360188294 801177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively new < 1360188306 317183 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm cool < 1360188331 205189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux, that is < 1360188333 473031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's Linux-specific) < 1360188356 535830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Web of Lies uses it heavily, btw; it's how I once ended up with a filesystem leak < 1360188369 700197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd think it would be difficult to leak filesystems, but…) < 1360188374 61665 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? really? < 1360188379 274154 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it die with the process < 1360188396 614057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but just /finding/ the process is hard when it's in an entirely different namespace < 1360188402 323565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I hit multiple kernel bugs < 1360188405 228682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo A | fueue ')~$)[[)[~~~~()+1])][0]$%~~1)][[)[):[)$$7--1[)$3~[)$~!~~%~)]$2<[):]~:]~)~~[)~~~[~)~$7~~:~~([$3~)+[~~~<~()+48]~~~-)~10*)]/]--10):]]~[H]~] ][]]' #New attempt < 1360188406 732858 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 < 1360188407 956688 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ps aux won't list it? < 1360188414 850505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, but Linux thought it was init < 1360188417 966530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so I couldn't get rid of it < 1360188420 288003 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about lsof? < 1360188430 24148 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fuser < 1360188431 933744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or specifically, it thought init had a debug trace on it < 1360188437 107359 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1360188449 444565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is actually no way to get rid of a process that init has a debug trace on, short of rebooting the system < 1360188453 234728 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-207-105.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1360188453 473587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or telling init to kill it < 1360188481 568496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to sigkill it, then the kill gets passed onto init, which doesn't know what to do with it < 1360188481 792891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there ever a legitimate reason for init to have a debug trace on anything??? < 1360188484 860660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1360188489 492546 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why < 1360188492 579054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel bug < 1360188496 518337 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1360188497 329950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly I don't know how to reproduce it < 1360188510 443283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one I /do/ know how to reproduce is getting multiple overlapping stack segments in a process < 1360188516 972182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's really easy, you just mmap over the stack guard page twice < 1360188530 59170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a non-insane test case for it, then report the bug < 1360188533 66553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how did you figure out that linux thought init was debugging? < 1360188537 592283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does even kill -9 get passed on? < 1360188548 58566 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you try to sigkill it, then the kill gets passed onto init, which doesn't know what to do with it < 1360188549 907959 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360188552 881213 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's mentioned in /proc < 1360188557 300982 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360188559 347428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, it gets converted into SIGCHLD on the way < 1360188581 358824 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to boot with init=gdb? that might reasonably result in init having a debug trace on something < 1360188587 708220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :init /does/ understand SIGCHLD (it's its job), but not the specific version of SIGCHLD meaning "something you have a debug trace on was sent a fatal signal" < 1360188597 210088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes, but that would be pretty insane < 1360188601 269697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm, good point < 1360188603 452448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unwilling to try < 1360188635 928004 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could actually have killed it < 1360188640 99508 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, without rebooting < 1360188647 713158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :init supports re-exec using telinit < 1360188657 793670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace init with a new init that would understand how to handle it < 1360188659 220403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb as process 1 actually soudns kind of useful < 1360188660 777394 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :then re-execute init < 1360188671 918384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you think I have spare inits just lying around? < 1360188672 358571 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would not have required a reboot < 1360188678 18035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good point < 1360188681 477538 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think you have a compiler < 1360188686 249632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360188687 352399 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing with init being special and magical seems pretty bogus in general, why couldn't there just be loads of processes that lack a parent? < 1360188691 854697 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1360188699 636384 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you would need to customise the code anyway < 1360188702 730984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing a correct init without being able to test it is something I'm not confident in being able to do < 1360188707 181865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, the kernel exec()s init < 1360188714 469375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all other processes have to be forked off from init < 1360188726 560773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely sure what happens if you replace init with something that doesn't work properly < 1360188728 584428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it's god < 1360188730 59089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*good < 1360188733 658467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so do apt-get source then patch it up and compile it < 1360188751 671357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe throw it in a VM to test it < 1360188792 868561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this seems like a lot of effort to just get rid of a process in an impossible state < 1360188797 169846 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1360188807 536322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps and top were quite happily bragging about the state it was in, if they had feelings I'm sure they'd be having fun < 1360188819 353633 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how what state was it in? < 1360188837 901525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: debug stop, obviously < 1360188842 238554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no process obviously tracing it < 1360188842 424579 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360188847 287416 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1360188849 778417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you look at /proc, the process tracing it was init < 1360188874 257662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what it would have thought it was being traced by from within its own namespace < 1360188876 784745 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe the tracing process had died, thus re-assigning the parent to init? < 1360188879 300653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was being debugged by a process outside the sandbox < 1360188881 400599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, it had < 1360188895 669889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but traces surely shouldn't be reassigned like that < 1360188896 9562 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would normally kill the debug state presumably? < 1360188903 654310 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you tested that again? < 1360188933 871549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I doubt trying it under normal circumstances will produce standard results < 1360188941 272630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try gdbing a program and kill -9ing gdb < 1360188959 469204 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure killing gdb is harmless < 1360188963 611082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: same < 1360188969 822203 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1360188971 658613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, what happens to the program it's debugging < 1360188992 578730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it obviously need to be in debug stop too < 1360189011 297437 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the program continues as if the debugger detached < 1360189024 365226 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what if it was stopped < 1360189060 24351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, at the moment, a.out is in tracing stop, and traced by gdb < 1360189062 492086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this much makes sense < 1360189067 467725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll kill gdb < 1360189085 25289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out also disappeared < 1360189089 978501 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360189090 749600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need an a.out with an infinite loop in it < 1360189093 972086 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it killed both? < 1360189106 430496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hard to tell, this is why I need the infinite loop < 1360189119 377639 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a.out continued and finished successfully < 1360189144 551773 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and save the exit status? it should say how the program died < 1360189167 164277 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@sabis.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1360189191 151818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a.out just starts running normally if I kill gdb out from under it < 1360189245 721741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that to reproduce the bug, you need a new PID namespace < 1360189273 541152 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :just killing a debugger is not weird enough to warrant a kernel bug < 1360189278 133969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1360189288 821436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the sort of thing you normally do intentionally, but it seems easy enough to do by mistake < 1360189307 923624 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about if you put the inner process in a different namespace? < 1360189337 808036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can't easily get gdb to do that, at this point < 1360189345 183239 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1360189352 774472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you could do it with recursive strace < 1360189364 757945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need to write your own helper program, also would need root on all processes involved < 1360189369 309850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm too lazy to try to do that right now < 1360189582 860067 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would doubt recursive trace is allowed < 1360189585 726754 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be < 1360189602 318199 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it should be < 1360189602 514429 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even tracing a parent process < 1360189607 58000 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, why < 1360189613 718459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: recursive trace works by capturing all the fork commands < 1360189620 106246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and immediately tracing the children too < 1360189622 928658 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1360189634 370913 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err I meant cyclic tracing < 1360189637 391670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I type recursive < 1360189643 109360 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to sleep I think < 1360189666 296520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I said recursive < 1360189676 796641 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll admit that cyclic tracing seems troublesome < 1360189760 220598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway you could attach to an existing process < 1360189767 96581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system calls to set it up are definitely possible to express < 1360189794 334839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? man ptrace says that tracing init is legal < 1360189804 627189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost want to attach gdb to init now < 1360189808 700092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure what would happen if I tried < 1360189834 957682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing in the documentation that bars cyclic tracing… < 1360189870 929105 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it in a VM? < 1360189880 279678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying cyclic tracing on my laptop right now < 1360189901 231241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1360189904 4444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both in tracing stops < 1360189906 453181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simultaneously < 1360189955 844117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/GEgA < 1360190002 884763 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :two gdbs attached to each others? < 1360190019 38576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! < 1360190028 988586 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ptracing init is a new feature < 1360190030 462259 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'feature' < 1360190033 37919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: indeed < 1360190037 636633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously it would try to reparent the traced process to the tracer < 1360190061 533905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: strangely, even though gdb 1 was told not to stop gdb 2, it did anyway < 1360190079 957171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, because gdb 2 stopped gdb 1, so gdb 1, which it was tracing, stopped too < 1360190083 835491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try to break up this gdb-ball, now < 1360190123 84026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 works, lesser signals seem not to < 1360190141 983318 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like they just deadlocked when I tried attaching to gdb 2 from gdb 1 (gdb 2 was started with --pid=gdb1) < 1360190159 280254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, and they're both marked as tracing stop < 1360190172 666161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can you try to kill gdb 2 in that scenario? I tried to kill gdb 1 instead < 1360190244 23686 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :term does nothing, kill results in gdb1 saying "Unable to attach: program terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed." < 1360190254 625043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's a different result to trying to kill 2 < 1360190269 126394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case, 1 correctly reported that 2 had been killed < 1360190285 904031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh -c 'exec strace -p $$' < 1360190312 256618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you tried that, or is it just a thought experiment? < 1360190316 835575 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tried it < 1360190322 575448 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what happens < 1360190338 566350 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the first run gave me a different result though, maybe because I tried to Ctrl-C both gdbs before killing them (gdb2 first) < 1360190364 379517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: strace checks for it, it seems < 1360190364 597590 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb/linux-nat.c:1766: internal-error: linux_nat_detach: Assertion `num_lwps (GET_PID (inferior_ptid)) == 1' failed. < 1360190386 665840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdb says "I refuse to debug myself!" < 1360190390 671721 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1360190405 452346 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :run gdb in gdb to bypass the check < 1360190423 494704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't try to run weboflies inside itself because that actually ends in quite a boring manner < 1360190437 190115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outside one prevents the inside one from running ptrace < 1360190442 69925 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring! < 1360190445 979234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get any sort of interesting infinite regress < 1360190473 354378 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean you don't support nested weboflies either? < 1360190482 899916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1360190499 585369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugger-like programs are one of the things weboflies is documented to not work on < 1360190500 779148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a good way to check whether you're webofliesed < 1360190503 892618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know < 1360190513 739644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in theory I could go through all the effort of implementing ptrace by hand < 1360190518 24042 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :webofleeced < 1360190520 908393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't unless it turns out to be really relevant < 1360190541 148529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other thing is, the program running inside weboflies can't be root, and it needs root < 1360190547 850349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does weboflies work on 64-bit programs yet? < 1360190551 284211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1360190556 893922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even work on 32-bit programs yet :) < 1360190562 69792 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1360190571 564729 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it work on? 16-bit programs? < 1360190574 331338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nothing < 1360190577 83770 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would like to run it on arm-linux-gnueabihf < 1360190582 748632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: really? < 1360190587 118457 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe < 1360190592 242982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs special-case code for each platform and ABI < 1360190601 136685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why I'm focusing on 32-bit x86 < 1360190609 329529 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? That is going to be a PITA on ARM < 1360190610 196430 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies can't fake being root? < 1360190615 375064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: exactly < 1360190617 511430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: not yet < 1360190617 697233 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to all the variant-ABIs < 1360190628 288558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's fakeroot, but it doesn't do a particularly impressive job of it < 1360190638 234373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how do you react if the inside program tries to break the chroot, for instance? < 1360190647 948205 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does fakeroot actually do btw? < 1360190651 828914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to pretend it doesn't exist < 1360190658 848830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lies on some file-related system calls < 1360190661 858725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weboflies-style < 1360190666 744499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1360190685 283707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if it tries to chown a file to root, it pretends it succeeded, and then returns root on any attempt to get the file's owner < 1360190688 216826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a library shim not a syscall interceptor right? < 1360190692 842423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: err, probably < 1360190704 338006 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i write all my programs as assembly making syscalls directly < 1360190715 421858 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what if you hardlink the file first < 1360190717 356567 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1360190717 542074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of fakeroot, though, you want to be lied to < 1360190718 328123 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1360190723 427042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not perfect < 1360190728 812145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you seen weboflies < 1360190729 292673 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1360190729 654035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its purpose is to make packages < 1360190732 106704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of thing you'd like or hate < 1360190754 122495 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it store the chown then somewhere, so that the proper owner can be recorded in the package? < 1360190758 201500 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard about it but forgot < 1360190772 288198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should see its code < 1360190775 702713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd hate or like it < 1360190776 205106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1360190781 800243 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that works < 1360190783 675422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so unfinished :( < 1360191009 925628 :monqy_!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1360191048 112090 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1360191052 704964 :monqy_!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net NICK :monqy < 1360191119 225529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the inside program tries to break the chroot, just tell it it wasn't in a chroot in the first place? < 1360191149 683834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, but that's yet more cases to check, and so on < 1360191159 479361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you do know how to break a chroot as root, right?) < 1360191176 246520 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's that again < 1360191186 46976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have web o' flies' code to hand? < 1360191188 427858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've lost it, I think < 1360191188 741517 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about if the inside program creates a chroot with another program (as root) that is "legitimately" supposed to break out from the inner chroot < 1360191197 685707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cd root, set up a second chroot inside it < 1360191215 175957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then while inside the second chroot, but still inside the root directory of the original chroot (i.e. you're below your own personal root), do a cd .. < 1360191219 339841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then chroot again < 1360191233 523880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks the chroot because if you're /below/ root, you can cd .. as much as you like < 1360191237 595557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is an intended feature < 1360191582 859030 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of what you get when your working directory has been deleted < 1360191614 358234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I didn't think it was possible to delete another process's working directory < 1360191701 340901 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be possible :) it's also fun when cd .. fails because the directory has stopped existing < 1360191713 910066 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess because it has stopped having a file name < 1360191732 651684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… is it possible to delete the .. /entry/ in a directory < 1360191742 274001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while having a directory containing the directory that's missing a .. < 1360191755 656061 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the '..' entry even necessarily exist? < 1360191767 91716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's meant to, by some spec or another < 1360191832 7588 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that it's an artifact of simulating posix rather than the directory actually having a link named .. that points to the parent directory < 1360191861 837138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you didn't have "."?!?!?!?! < 1360191902 867039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote This position is asking for "- Extensive experience with API" You're just not qualified, kid. < 1360191906 515035 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :958) This position is asking for "- Extensive experience with API" You're just not qualified, kid. < 1360192084 624293 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah python.... repr(x) = '1357675209.248774', str(x) = '1357675209.25' < 1360192092 939557 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular this means 'print' doesn't print floats with full precision < 1360192102 906494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that sort of a good thing < 1360192110 517607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since otherwise print would print huge monstrosities < 1360192117 273067 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not a good thing < 1360192119 770662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too magic and implicit < 1360192132 476662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want only 2 decimal places you can use '%.2f' % (x,) < 1360192163 240365 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidence that it's too magic and implicit: i've been programming in python for many years and only just noticed this, when i couldn't grep some files for the floats supposedly loaded from those files < 1360192402 176351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know what's too magic and implicit < 1360192411 490358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's automatically converting values to strings by implicit rules that nobody will know inherently < 1360192417 319925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are tons of ways to convert any value to a string < 1360192465 88946 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, pretty sure %f in C's printf doesn't do full precision either? < 1360192465 876922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: toString() < 1360192467 425644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1360192554 500722 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be unsurprised to find that the rule is "output the shortest string that results in the same binary representation". < 1360192576 71476 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than the perhaps saner "output the decimal conversion of the float". < 1360192589 214017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either that or undefined behaviour < 1360192623 489775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall finding out that efficient, exact float -> string conversion is surprisingly complicated < 1360192631 995757 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was the other way < 1360192648 248949 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything involving floats is surprisingly complicated, i shouldn't be surprised by it by now < 1360192661 627520 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc string->float is the really tricky one, but float->strings is most likely pretty tricky too < 1360192735 497680 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-170-156.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Exact float->string conversion can be fairly easy if you use hex float syntax. :P < 1360192743 777534 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, or maybe float->string was the tricky one... there was that bug in dtoa where it went into an infinite loop < 1360192770 415000 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I actually meant it that way around in the first place but wrote the words in the wrong order < 1360193076 843705 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah that was a great bug < 1360193083 473288 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoS any PHP or Java app < 1360193099 364738 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though PHP fucking something up is not in any way evidence that it's a tricky problem < 1360193143 888531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://sprunge.us/YaOJ < 1360193146 489938 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-02-06 23:25:45 URL:http://sprunge.us/YaOJ [3900] -> "YaOJ" [1] < 1360193196 124474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod a+x YaOJ; mv YaOJ bin/shove < 1360193200 7970 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1360193202 17143 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc this was the one case where php did the right thing and used the library that already solved this tricky problem that no-one knows how to solve, but that it had an actual bug < 1360193211 603435 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Ithkuil is quite the thing. < 1360193228 90050 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "âdraxhtipší" translates literally as "apparatus designed for obeying synergistically composite sets of rules". < 1360193245 458149 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a bit more nicely, as "computer". < 1360193266 305738 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a good name for a programming language < 1360193271 84587 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn QUIT :Excess Flood < 1360193305 770912 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Âdraxhtipší. It's difficult to type, but not extremely so. < 1360193314 702093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1360193325 402597 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my keyboard, it's "alt-6 A d r a x h t i p alt-v s alt-e i". < 1360193333 137839 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No person, including Quijada, is hitherto known to be able to speak Ithkuil fluently." < 1360193333 323281 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@unaffiliated/sircmpwn JOIN :#esoteric < 1360193397 827701 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users presumably none (2012) < 1360193401 436847 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of ironic how Ithkuil is kind of supposed to be extremely concise, and yet its word for "computer" is longer than the English word for computer. < 1360193421 987747 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 2008, it won the Smiley Award < 1360193493 797255 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference, I suppose, is that while "computer" has three longish morphemes, com-put-er, "âdraxhtipší" presumably has a whole ton of short morphemes. < 1360193500 756960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are you new to ithkuil? < 1360193503 23975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an amazing thing < 1360193508 289706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "Ithkuil doesn’t use the concept of zero." < 1360193525 222111 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it does. "â-dr-a-xht-ipš-i", six morphemes. < 1360193581 85807 :tswett!~tswett@23.23.86.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like the root is... "eu", actually, but it's abbreviated out of the word entirely or something. < 1360193616 452763 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: somehow i've never heard of it before < 1360193619 986059 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's amazing yes < 1360193620 784728 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :65 consonants and 17 vowels o.O < 1360193628 216117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: listen to the example sentence pronunciation on wikipedia < 1360193629 888563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1360193640 848190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ompeaaa a keth luch tuch < 1360193736 908535 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As our vehicle leaves the ground and plunges over the edge of the cliff toward the valley floor, I ponder whether it is possible that one might allege I am guilty of an act of moral failure, having failed to maintain a proper course along the roadway < 1360193824 417121 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the IPA for it looks like it comes straight from /dev/urandom < 1360193829 599935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '"Hello world!"S' | shove < 1360193832 531095 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ actual size: (15, 1), pos: (0, 0) \ rotated for viewing; pos: (0, 0), dir: 0 \ stack: \ *Hello world!"S \ \ actual size: (15, 1), pos: (14, 0) \ rotated for viewing; pos: (14, 0), dir: 0 \ stack: {Hello world!} \ "Hello world!"* \ Hello world! < 1360193850 960635 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ˈpʊ́l̪l̩̪̀ ʊˈɪ́qɪ̀ʃx ˈmáʔwàɫ̪ɡ ɛʁjaʊ̯fɤˈn̪ɪ́ɛ́n̪ ˈpǽθwɯ̀ç aʊ̯ˈxɤ́ʔjàɬt xn̪ɛʔwiɬˈtáʔʂʊ̀ɪ̯ ˈt̪ʊ́à kɪ̂t̪ œl̪ˈːâ jaˈqázmʊ̀ɪ̯v l̪ɪʔjɯɾˈzɪ́ʂkàʔ pʼamˈm̩̂ aɪl̪ɔʔˈwɤ́tʃːà ʃʊʔˈjɛ́ɸt̪àʂ < 1360193857 220058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit unoptimal output for HackEgo < 1360193873 210362 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop that < 1360193876 33177 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you break my terminal < 1360193903 490126 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Romanization: Pull̀ uíqišx ma’wałg eřyaufënienˉ päţwïç auxë’yaļt xne’wïļta’şui tua kit öllá yaqazmuiv li’yïrzişka’ p’amḿ aìlo’wëčča šu’yehtaş < 1360193952 609938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that my shove interp? < 1360193956 296394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1360193961 105232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if you'd written your own < 1360193988 441323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of a waste given yours is the only information i have about the language. < 1360193999 219427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1360194012 588216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to output debug info < 1360194040 940153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… rare for me to finish an esolang then forget to tell anyone about it < 1360194046 20548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must just have never got round to writing the spec < 1360194075 684123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nominate oerjan writes the spec < 1360194078 876274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be a world first I think < 1360194109 213014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1360194167 468404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a world first of someone writing the spec for someone else's esolang < 1360194218 773464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why oerjan not you? laziness? < 1360194267 91674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't _do_ things... < 1360194269 271515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ais523 created the esolang Shove in 2008, but somehow forgot to tell anyone until 2013" < 1360194274 669340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also oerjan seems to know how to write a program in it and I don't :P < 1360194275 541470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked the file modification dates < 1360194286 655279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to do control flow < 1360194513 289433 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminded me of another language but i forgot which one so i searched for it and it's Burn. < 1360194656 783732 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow! people are talking about esolangs!) < 1360194717 414393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn is quite an awkward language < 1360194728 476240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I wrote one program in it, and never remembered the spec < 1360194744 635769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program's online, but I'm not sure anyone's seriously tried to figure out the spec from it < 1360194749 651594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should try sometime < 1360194765 577546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having designed the esolang in the first place, I probably have the best chance < 1360195064 563703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/shove/shove < 1360195069 809025 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-02-06 23:57:48 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/shove/shove [4006/4006] -> "shove" [1] < 1360195077 627333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod a+x shove < 1360195080 705397 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1360195084 671450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mv shove bin/shove < 1360195086 123512 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: missing destination file operand after `shove bin/shove' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. < 1360195089 836458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv shove bin/shove < 1360195092 915261 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1360195106 583498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`shove "Hello, world!"S < 1360195108 99875 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!