00:26:04 `addquote Usually I'd use Rankine, but the fucking weather doesn't support it. 00:26:08 920) Usually I'd use Rankine, but the fucking weather doesn't support it. 00:26:32 I cannot live without list comprehensions 00:26:43 sure you can! 00:26:50 just use do-notation instead! 00:27:37 > do x <- [1..10]; y <- [1..10]; return (x*y) 00:27:38 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,... 00:28:11 * Sgeo_ is struggling with Smalltalk 00:28:12 > join.liftM2(*)$[1..10] 00:28:14 Couldn't match type `[]' with `(->) [a0]' 00:28:17 eep 00:29:10 > join`id`liftM2(*)$[1..10] 00:29:12 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,... 00:29:27 #((1 2 3) #(4 5 6)) reduce: [:x :y | 00:29:27 x gather: [:a | 00:29:28 y collect: [:b | a + b]]] 00:29:34 I have no idea what's going on in that 00:30:09 oh wait 00:30:18 > liftM2(*)`join`[1..10] 00:30:20 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,... 00:33:10 `? helsinki 00:33:11 helsinki? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:33:53 `learn Helsinki is the capital of Finland. Its main suburb is Hexham in Northumberland. 00:33:56 I knew that. 00:34:33 oerjan: Fix this immediately. <-- OKAY 00:35:07 that wasn't very immediate 00:35:18 it was immediate on logreading 00:35:23 ah 00:35:57 `sed -i 's/ in/,/' wisdom/helsinki 00:35:58 Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script- 00:36:02 `run sed -i 's/ in/,/' wisdom/helsinki 00:36:05 No output. 00:36:09 Sgeo_: I'm more confused on what #((1 2 3) #(4 5 6)) is. An array of a list and an array would just be too easy. 00:36:10 `? helsinki 00:36:12 Helsinki is the capital of Finland. Its main suburb is Hexham, Northumberland. 00:36:17 oh hm 00:36:21 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]). 00:36:26 `run sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/helsinki 00:36:29 No output. 00:36:33 `? helsinki 00:36:34 Helsinki is the capital of Finland. Its main suburb is Hexham, Northumberland. 00:37:02 Bike, I'm guessing just a redundant # 00:37:07 `? hexham 00:37:08 Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham. 00:37:23 Both with and without the inner # ends up printing #(#(1 2 3) #(4 5 6)) 00:37:36 -!- comex` has changed nick to comex. 00:38:01 `learn Bike is from Luxembourg. 00:38:04 I knew that. 00:38:40 `learn Fiora is from some island somewhere. 00:38:44 I knew that. 00:39:04 Phantom_Hoover: i feel these lack a certain something. 00:39:13 i'm too tired for something 00:39:18 and it's not just truth 00:39:27 beaky is on C :D 00:39:31 `learn Fiora is from some island somewhere. She just doesn't want to be bothered, as she works out her domination plan as immortal queen of the dragons. 00:39:34 I knew that. 00:39:46 `run sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/fiora 00:39:49 No output. 00:39:56 Thanerjan. 00:40:04 *Thoerjan. 00:40:26 Phantom_Hoover: DON'T SPEAK LIKE THAT ABOUT YOUR THANE 00:40:27 `run sed -i 's/Than/Tho/' wisdom/bike 00:40:27 heh http://sprunge.us/TLTi 00:40:28 No output. 00:40:40 c00kiemon5ter: holy shit XD 00:40:55 who is collecting the beaky quotes ? :P 00:41:05 c00kiemon5ter, idiot or troll? 00:41:14 c00kiemon5ter: actually i know a guy was doing wacky things with llvm bitcode to get partial evaluation in compiled C, it was cool 00:41:20 (Don't do that in front of kmc btw or he'll say you're trolling by proxy) 00:41:45 possibly need scare quotes for "partial evaluation" but whatevs 00:41:52 soon Beaky will be emulating STG by hand 00:42:41 .. earlier: http://sprunge.us/OaUL 00:43:19 "imo goto is like the lambda of imperative programming" Holy shit. He's reverse-Steele! 00:43:51 sheesh everyone knows it's tail recursion which is goto. 00:44:16 what areyou people doing <_> 00:44:41 Fiora: stalking, i think 00:45:10 climbing the Beaky-stalk 00:45:23 Well, C doesn't have garbage collection... 00:45:36 it does with boehm!!! 00:45:42 * elliott has this half-suspicion that beaky is cheater or something. 00:45:46 boehmmmm 00:45:50 elliott: hm.... 00:45:51 :< 00:45:52 it is bad 00:45:58 yeah so i've heard 00:46:04 oerjan: well he's not cheater 00:46:12 unless cheater is proxying through UAE 00:46:17 also maybe not a he. 00:46:20 beaky is or something, okay 00:46:38 Sgeo_: hey, I discovered that my thing won't work unless I add some stuff to circumvent my solution to that one problem. 00:46:51 Fiora: are you secretly beaky 00:47:33 aha! 00:47:36 Fiora is from the uae! 00:47:45 What proble, and why do you need to circumvent your solution, is your solution bad? 00:48:07 ._. 00:48:16 Well, the problem is that NFU is not cartesian closed: there is no function ((a -> b) * a) -> b. 00:48:28 is Fiora a terrorist ? 00:48:30 maybe... maybe Fiora is from everywhere 00:48:36 maybe we are all Fiora 00:48:44 -!- augur has joined. 00:48:50 My solution is to let Si a be the set of one-element subsets of a; then we can circumvent this non-cartesian-closure by having a function ((a -> b) * Si a) -> Si b, instead. 00:48:55 * c00kiemon5ter would be Fiora if Fiora had cookies 00:49:07 tswett, stop logicing up our channel! 00:49:20 Phantom_Hoover: but I'm talking about a relatively esoteric set theory! 00:49:33 IS IT TURING COMPLETE 00:49:34 * Sgeo_ has no idea what tswett is doing 00:49:52 yes i was a little bemused by that 00:49:54 * Sgeo_ needs food 00:50:08 Uh... well, it's equiconsistent with ZFC. 00:50:09 ummm cookies? I like cookies 00:50:12 are they chcoolate 00:50:21 Fiora, no 00:50:22 Pasta. With Parmesan cheese. 00:50:27 yes 00:50:32 Sgeo_: and tomato sauce? 00:50:33 that is the sort of cookies that they are 00:50:33 Fiora: You americans call all biscuits cookies right? 00:50:42 tswett, no 00:50:44 elliott, and they call scones biscuits! 00:50:53 I only use ketchup when there's no cheese 00:50:55 So *that's* what the Brits call biscuits. 00:51:01 So... what do they call scones? 00:51:02 Phantom_Hoover: Americans are weird. 00:51:09 What's a scone? I've heard of them 00:51:12 tswett: What do you call scones??? 00:51:17 Sgeo_, it's like a biscuit 00:51:24 elliott: as far as I know, American scones are the same thing as British scones. 00:51:41 it's a little cakey thing but harder and not as sweet 00:51:47 The first I've been exposed to the word "scone" was in Dilbert 00:51:50 Americans don't even have, like, digestives do they? 00:51:54 How do they live? 00:52:04 Where Dilbert gives a guy a styrofoam cup and claims it's a scone 00:52:26 My only exposure to digestive biscuits is an episode of Arthur in which the titular character discovers a tin of them buried in his back yard. 00:52:33 ((cookies -> omnomnom) => happines true) 00:52:39 He decides they probably have something to do with Reader's Digest. 00:52:48 is Fiora a terrorist ? <-- not everyone from the uae is a terrorist, c00kiemon5ter. some are filthy rich oil billionaires or their slaves. 00:52:52 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 00:53:05 Aha: 00:53:11 "Round-shaped British scones can resemble North American biscuits in appearance, but scones rely on cold butter for their delicate, flaky texture, while biscuits are more often made with animal fat or vegetable shortening and are crumbly rather than flaky." 00:54:00 Of course, butter is animal fat... right? 00:54:03 tswett: they do, in fact. 00:54:13 btw you guys should have digestives they are really quite nice despite appearances 00:54:17 Does "animal fat" mean something other than "fat that comes from an animal"? 00:54:22 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-05-06/ 00:54:24 Phantom_Hoover: what do you think of chocolate digestives 00:54:29 Uh... well, it's equiconsistent with ZFC. <-- completely equi-? 00:54:36 elliott, INFERIOR 00:54:49 The other mention of scones in Dilbert that I haven't seen until now http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2004-01-28/ 00:54:59 oerjan: I think so? ZFC is consistent if and only if NFU is consistent, if I remember correctly. 00:55:12 Phantom_Hoover: I think they are pretty good sometimes 00:55:17 Phantom_Hoover: maybe you have had the milk chocolate kind 00:55:20 that kind is not very good 00:55:31 no 00:55:38 biscuit minimalism is the only way 00:55:40 British biscuits sound like crappy cookies. 00:55:57 tswett, can you dunk cookies answer no 00:55:59 qed 00:56:07 Therefore, Oreos are biscuits? 00:56:18 no 00:56:19 I must consult oreo.co.uk. 00:56:20 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:56:21 that doesn't count 00:56:40 Wow, they are. 00:56:49 British Oreos are biscuits. 00:56:56 And they have telly ads. 00:57:37 tswett: it doesn't count as animal fat if the animal survives the procedure, thus butter isn't. 00:57:46 oerjan: I see. 01:01:14 GRRRR I HATE THIS APARTMENT 01:01:33 STUPID FLY/BUG/WHATEVER DECIDED TO DIE IN MY POT OF BOILING WATER RIGHT BEFORE I WENT TO PUT SOME PASTA IN 01:02:01 oh no 01:02:06 otoh 01:02:10 you could use some protein 01:02:15 oreos aren't very good 01:02:32 i mean it's not that they're bad 01:02:37 but they say the biscuity parts are chocolate 01:02:40 they plainly ain't 01:02:48 I poured out the water and started again 01:02:49 they don't taste of chocolate it just tastes of... black 01:02:54 I'm very annoyed because I'm hungry 01:03:11 Sgeo_, uh don't you boil it in a kettle and then pour it onto the pasta 01:03:25 or is that thing about americans not having kettles actually true?? 01:03:26 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:03:37 I think I've seen a kettle onc 01:03:38 once 01:03:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:03:47 how do you make tea exactly 01:03:57 * Sgeo_ doesn't make tea 01:04:05 what if you want to boil water 01:04:08 e.g. to make pasta 01:04:10 do you like boil it in a pan and use that 01:04:21 Phantom_Hoover, put it in the pot, turn stove on, wait 15 minutes 01:04:42 (there is probably some wasted time but don't care) 01:04:49 :O 01:05:27 ok how do you make like 01:05:28 coffee 01:05:35 you weird americans 01:05:37 & your weird american bvgs 01:05:45 they have machines 01:05:53 wow abbreviating beverages as "bvgs" feels at least 120% punk 01:05:58 bvgs bvgs bvgs 01:06:35 observe process of coddled american trying to make coffee without assistance from mechanical nanny: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=2056 01:07:04 elliott, I assume other Americans do have kettles, btw 01:07:22 Do not assume that I am a typical American 01:07:51 Sgeo_: update 01:07:55 `list 01:07:56 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 01:08:00 Fiora, awesome 01:08:14 Sgeo_, oooh ooh ooh 01:08:22 do you say 'pahsta' instead of 'pasta' 01:08:39 What's the difference pronounciation-wise? 01:08:45 uh 01:08:55 ah as in open mouth say ahh? 01:08:59 construct in your head the Standard American British Person 01:09:03 have him say 'parsta' 01:09:58 tswett: i don't read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Foundations as implying NFU is as strong as ZFC. "to our usual base theory, NFU + Infinity + Choice. This base theory, known consistent, has the same strength as TST + Infinity, or Zermelo set theory with Separation restricted to bounded formulas (Mac Lane set theory)." 01:11:12 queen of the dragons eh 01:11:25 scroll down, kmc 01:11:44 kmc: do you have a kettle 01:11:59 'Disgruntled Williamsburg Resident Arrested After Making 403 Phony 911 Calls About Hipsters' not the onion 01:12:06 elliott: yes why 01:12:11 kmc: i'm surver 01:12:12 ying 01:12:13 just a stove one, not an electric one 01:12:13 aemrcians 01:12:16 oh 01:12:17 that doesn't count 01:12:25 you're all so fucking weird 01:12:27 HOW DO YOU MAKE TEA 01:12:30 at work we have a fancy japanese hot water heater than plays a tune when it's done 01:12:43 we make tea by boiling water on the stove 01:12:50 that's so much fuss though 01:14:14 kmc, how does that work 01:14:17 doesn't the kettle melt 01:15:29 I think I might not know what a kettle is 01:15:41 I though they're things that go on a stove that hold water and whistle when water is boiling 01:15:53 -!- monqy has joined. 01:16:11 yes that is one kind of kettle 01:16:21 Sgeo_, electric ones are made of plastic 01:16:24 there is also the kind you plug in and they contain water and have a little poury thing and you press them and the water gets hot 01:16:24 for obvious reasons 01:16:32 Ah 01:16:44 http://tesco.scene7.com/is/image/tesco/778-6535_PI_TPS1508478?wid=170&hei=170&$Offers$ like this 01:16:56 $Offers$ 01:17:45 my lecrci keetle has multiple materials 01:17:50 some are metal?? 01:17:52 17000x17000 is apparently an illegal image size 01:18:13 Phantom_Hoover: it's metal 01:18:22 yeah it's the whistly kind 01:18:25 monqy: lecrci kettle 01:18:43 monqy, ok but the base at least is always plastic 01:18:53 does tesco put horse meat in their kettles 01:19:11 base is plasticy-looking 01:19:25 kmc: yes 01:19:36 if you want one cup of tea you can also boil water in the microwave and then put a tea bag in 01:19:41 watch out for superheated water 01:19:50 here is a nice kettle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBw618geqyI 01:20:06 kmc: by watch out for you mean aim for 01:20:31 i mean the thing where it's above boiling point but doesn't boil due to being in an ultra smooth container 01:20:36 then it explodues when you put your spoon in 01:20:42 elliott: but then the water aims for YOU! 01:20:52 it's true, superheating water makes it russian 01:20:58 hey are we talking about tea 01:20:58 c00kiemon5ter, what the shit 01:21:20 :D 01:22:36 kmc: yes but exploding tea is a good thing??? 01:23:07 elliott, but it explodes before it becomes tea 01:23:37 c00kiemon5ter: hahaha nice 01:23:52 also the submerged pulsejet part looks like a bong 01:24:09 c00kiemon5ter: wtf 01:25:16 -!- oerjan has set topic: New Topic Foundation with Urelements | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:25:53 überelements 01:26:07 the topic was nearly 10 days old, it smelled 01:27:58 Phantom_Hoover: you make it into a tea cleverly befor eit explode sometimhow 01:28:26 elliott, horrible, horrible solution: 01:28:38 brew the tea cold, remove teabag, microwave 01:28:55 Phantom_Hoover: perfect 01:28:56 why are u using tea bags 01:29:04 monqy: pshawwwwwwwwwwwwww tea snob pshawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 01:29:09 :( 01:29:10 pshawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 01:29:13 pshawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 01:29:38 monqy: for a start its not even allowed for americans to be tea snobs to brits 01:29:42 thats the opposite of how its meant to be 01:29:50 for an end pshawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 01:30:36 -!- augur has joined. 01:30:43 monqy: i forget did i mention pshawwww yet 01:30:45 pffff most teas arent even british 01:30:56 Phantom_Hoover: look what he's saying 01:31:16 thats like saying, most wines, arent french............... 01:31:20 monqy: the important thing isnt who 01:31:31 its who oppressed and generally made life miserable for the people who 01:31:42 we are really good at that 01:32:07 scottish not so much 01:32:08 sorry Phantom_Hoover 01:32:14 you don't have our work ethic 01:32:25 but you're not american so it's okay 01:33:07 `addquote okay so i went to wikimapia per Bike and found a tiny little nowhere that looked like it might be it zoomed in thought aw yeah this looks remote maybe it's it turns out it's hawaii i am not very good at this 01:33:10 921) okay so i went to wikimapia per Bike and found a tiny little nowhere that looked like it might be it zoomed in thought aw yeah this looks remote maybe it's it turns out it's hawaii i am not very good at this 01:33:53 monqy: also are you saying you drink american teas 01:33:57 pshawww pshawww ww w w ww 01:33:57 no 01:34:27 i like lots of teas!!!! have you tried chinese & japanese teas 01:34:34 thats like drinking american wine 01:34:42 anyway 01:34:49 monqy you literally cant hear how hard im pshawing right now 01:34:54 but its definitely too loud to do anything but pshaw 01:34:59 you don't have the soul of a tea-drinker 01:35:04 tea for dong 01:35:09 probably you don't even have milk with it 01:35:21 youre right i dont have milk with it 01:35:25 see 01:35:37 i bet you have like a little ritual 01:35:45 where you pray to the tea first or sth 01:35:50 or at least use special gloves 01:36:04 no i just use my normal hands 01:36:16 elliott: is it loud enough to hear over that jettle thing? 01:36:20 well that's not the point! 01:36:33 whats the point..... 01:36:41 stop drinking tea 01:36:44 no 01:36:47 you're doing it wrong 01:36:55 no............... 01:38:15 if you dont stop, elliott will fly there with his jettle to teach you a lesson 01:38:23 a lesson on how to have tea 01:40:07 * c00kiemon5ter time to dream cookies 0.0 01:40:42 `addquote Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING Bike: You should use lens! NEVER shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here 01:40:46 922) Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING Bike: You should use lens! NEVER shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here 01:40:58 um is that spacing really correct 01:41:02 oops 01:41:06 the second space is wider than the first 01:41:24 `run sed -i '922s/ / /g' quotes 01:41:29 No output. 01:41:31 `quote 922 01:41:33 922) Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING Bike: You should use lens! NEVER shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here 01:42:14 ais523: apparently vim puts two spaces after ! when autojoining lines 01:42:30 oerjan: Emacs does that too, it's annoying 01:42:40 unless you just learn to live with double spaces at the end of a sentence 01:50:24 `run echo "The pacific ocean is half the world and surrounded by fire. The atlantic ocean is less cool than its giant underwater moutain range. The arctic ocean is cold. The indian ocean is full of typhoons and non-eurocentric shipping." >wisdom/oceans 01:50:27 No output. 01:50:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:31 oh hm 01:50:57 `run sed -i 's/ / /g' wisdom/oceans 01:51:01 No output. 01:51:21 Bike: i thought your wisdom fit better as wisdom than as a quote. hth. 01:57:10 Maybe I don't hate OO as much as I thought I did 01:57:38 it h indeed 01:57:38 what does that mean 01:57:40 what does oo mean 01:57:42 In functional language channels, I tend to find myself asking hypotheticals that are easily resolved in an OO world 01:57:45 object-oriented 01:57:51 Sgeo_: i'm sorry, haven't you been fucking with squeak for the last two... whenever after Racket was 01:57:53 what does object-oriented mean 01:58:01 encapsulation! 01:58:07 wait add more exclamation marks 01:58:50 Bike, I'm fucking around with Smalltalk because of the IDE and resumable exceptions, not because I suddenly decided to immerse myself in pure OOness 01:58:53 Bike: are you new to sgeo 01:59:24 Sgeo_: anyway have you implemented Smalltalk-80 as a Racket language yet? 02:00:34 I don't really see a point in doing so. Implementing Racket in a Smalltalk environment makes more sense to me 02:01:08 I really like the Racket language and Smalltalk environment. Smalltalk-80 as a Racket language would be Smalltalk language and Racket environment. 02:01:19 x/last shachaf 02:01:22 Er. 02:02:04 s/ha/cha/f 02:02:38 helloegan 02:03:35 hallogen 02:09:19 hallogens, the gases that speak to you 02:10:27 * Sgeo_ remembers when he started playing NetHack for the first time 02:10:33 Did something, got Hallu in the status thing 02:10:49 I thought it meant Hallelujah, I'm no longer hungry and I was hungry before 02:11:27 Halleloerjan! 02:11:29 > (pi :: CReal) == (pi :: CReal) + 10^^(-100) 02:11:30 True 02:11:38 I CLAIM FOUL 02:11:41 Hallu is the best status effect in that game 02:11:43 oerjan: It only checks 40 decimal digits. 02:12:00 FOUL, I SAY 02:12:08 Take it up with augustss. 02:12:35 he'll just use argument from authority (him) 02:13:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:13:30 i love arguments from authority 02:13:40 Oops! 02:13:47 shachaf: you're a jew aren't you? i don't think you're supposed to be worshipping me like that. 02:14:21 why does it only take forty digits... 02:14:37 I CAN WORSHIP WHOMEVER I WANT 02:14:42 ais523: (How does that look?) 02:14:53 err, ? 02:14:55 Bike_: People like their programs to terminate or something bizarre like that. 02:14:58 ais523: That "whom". 02:15:08 why are you trying to equate reals if you want to terminate 02:15:27 Bike_: They're computable reals. So you want to be able to COMPUTE equality???? 02:15:32 use logic plz 02:15:46 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:15:48 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:15:51 > (pi :: CReal) - (pi :: CReal) + 10^^(-100) 02:15:52 0.0 02:16:00 shachaf: yeah, that's OK 02:16:04 > (pi :: CReal) - (pi :: CReal) 02:16:05 oerjan: show uses the same 40 digits. 02:16:05 0.0 02:16:06 so they're just fancy floats 02:16:12 oh, guess not if it's just show 02:16:17 Bike: No, you can get them to whatever precision you want. 02:16:18 "cool" 02:16:29 It's just that show/(==)/etc. take 40 digits. 02:16:36 is there "equality up to n digits" standard too or 02:16:44 shachaf: i'm just wondering how it can even calculate the digits. 02:16:47 > (pi :: CReal) - (pi :: CReal) + 1 02:16:48 1.0 02:17:01 i guess it has to round at some point 02:17:09 > showCReal 100 pi 02:17:11 "3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406... 02:17:46 > let sh = showCReal 100 in sh pi == sh (pi + 10^^(-100)) 02:17:47 False 02:17:53 > let sh = showCReal 40 in sh pi == sh (pi + 10^^(-100)) 02:17:55 True 02:17:57 ∎ 02:18:13 perl-style numeral comparison, i can dig it 02:18:23 also this reminds me of when i tried implementing cont frac arithmetic. that was dumb 02:19:00 'A cleaning woman stole an empty commuter train in a suburb of Stockholm and crashed it into a house, injuring herself' 02:20:00 kmc: i 02:20:02 was the house built on train tracks 02:20:16 it probably derailed 02:20:19 bad place to build a house imo 02:20:54 hi elliott 02:21:05 oerjan: lemme look at the NFU home page again. 02:21:26 Hmm, Google is doing some serious Googlebottage of my website. 02:21:48 NFU has a home page? 02:21:55 can't stand it, i know you planned it 02:21:58 Bike: yep. http://math.boisestate.edu/~holmes/holmes/nf.html, by M. Randall Holmes. 02:22:06 Holmes states that NFU "is consistent". 02:22:09 -!- oerjan has set topic: New Topic Foundation with Urelements | FOUR SIMULTANEOUS TYPE SYSTEMS IN A SINGLE ROTATION OF THE LAMBDA CUBE | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:22:09 How did it even get these URLs? 02:22:40 tswett: that's quite an assertion 02:22:47 Indeed. 02:22:48 tswett: that just means it's not stronger than ZFC 02:23:04 oerjan: so it does. 02:23:33 wait, where's it say that on the page 02:23:44 i see "NF is not known to be consistent" 02:23:46 "NFU: New Foundations with urelements. This system is consistent, consistent with Choice, and does not prove Infinity but is consistent with it ( Jensen, 1969)." 02:23:49 oh, wait, nfu 02:23:52 right 02:24:09 Yeah. NF seems like more of a curiosity. 02:24:16 but it's so nice 02:24:40 I think NFU is significantly nicer. 02:25:08 NFU is pretty much NF, without the assertion that all objects are sets, and with the assertion that given variables x and y, the ordered pair (x, y) has the same type as x and y. 02:26:02 The result is a "consistent" theory that has a few nice properties that NF doesn't have. 02:26:27 Like, the type of a function is one higher, rather than three higher, than its elements. 02:26:36 i prefer inconsistent systems 02:26:41 they are so easy 02:26:46 Inconsistent systems have their uses. 02:27:24 why is consistent in scare quotes 02:27:44 shachaf… 02:27:44 "Consistent" here just means "consistent if (but not necessarily only if) ZFC is consistent", I think. 02:27:54 Sometimes, you want to be able to have an infinitely long proof, or a circular proof, or a proof that leaves some things out. 02:27:56 Oh, ok. 02:28:10 @where falso 02:28:10 I know nothing about falso. 02:28:17 @where+ falso http://www.inutile.ens.fr/estatis/falso/ 02:28:17 Done. 02:28:43 "Falso is an axiomatic system developed by Estatis Inc." shachaf what is this 02:29:03 oh it's a joke, ok 02:30:07 "Proportion of true statements 02:30:16 ZFC 50%, Falso 99.9% 02:32:47 "The above proofs and mathematical ideas are a trade secret and a trademark of Estatis Inc. and have also been copyrighted and patented." 02:32:54 Patented trade secrets. The best kind of trade secrets. 02:33:41 now that's what i call "so easy" 02:33:51 yes. yes, i love falso. 02:34:01 tswett: it fits the theme of inconsistency! 02:44:45 -!- david_werecat has joined. 02:51:31 `welcome david_werecat 02:51:33 david_werecat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:52:09 Hello 03:19:37 Bike: rip list of places with fewer than ten residents 03:19:46 what it's gone already? 03:19:48 yes 03:19:51 murdered 03:20:08 elliott.......is this your fault........... 03:20:13 no 03:20:26 nooooooo 03:21:23 Bike: You should boycott Wikipedia. 03:22:00 I uh, I have four articles open already. 03:30:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:35:44 hi david_werecat 04:09:12 -!- augur has joined. 04:47:26 * oerjan attacks the troll on our wiki head on for once. 04:48:10 which thinking about it may not be wise. 04:48:30 not sure "troll" is quite right :P 04:48:46 OKAY 05:07:14 http://defragger.info/ 05:08:35 man, i loved watching that thing 05:16:06 now does anyone have skifree in browser 05:16:31 of course I mean a cycle-accurate simulation of a 386 running the original skifree binary 05:16:32 my favorite is that chiptunes site that works like an amiga 05:16:45 have you seen http://www.visual6502.org/JSSim/ 05:17:16 is that the one that has a visual representation of it running? 05:19:43 yes 05:19:59 derived from an actual micrograph of a 6502 die 05:20:27 yeah i heard about that hwne it came out, i think it crashed my browser 05:20:55 great 05:21:05 How do I learn things about computers and audio? I know nothing at all. 05:21:17 there's also http://bellard.org/jslinux/ of course 05:21:27 i kind of feel like there should be a list of Fabrice Bellard facts 05:21:28 that one, shockingly, does actually run 05:21:57 shachaf: what specifically are you interested in? like, synth, the linux audio programming hellscape, compression formats? 05:22:01 a la chuck norris / oleg / whatever 05:22:04 maybe it's all played out though 05:22:39 shachaf: it is fun to write small C programs that generate audio waveforms as (say) 16 bit unsigned integers on stdout, and then pipe them into 'play' with appropriate flags 05:22:53 generate or filter, i should say 05:23:08 of course sox/play can already generate lots of things itself 05:23:47 I'm currently writing Haskell programs that generates various byte patterns and piping into aplay. 05:23:51 that is fun too 05:23:56 It is indeed fun, but I have no idea what I'm doing. 05:24:41 I don't know anything about audio waveforms. 05:24:58 I suppose I should read about that. 05:25:09 mm 05:25:27 well sure there is plenty to read about 05:25:43 but more or less any function that's periodic in an audio frequency will generate some interesting sound 05:26:09 sine waves, square waves, triangles, sawtooths are classic examples 05:26:25 and you can combine them however -- addition, multiplication 05:26:34 multiply some noise by a sine wave etc. 05:26:46 more than most programming toys it lends itself to immediate experimentation 05:26:52 and if you add waves at different frequencies you can get harmonies! 05:27:04 FM synthesis is cool 05:28:13 some day i will synthesize strings and it will not sound horrible 05:28:15 some day 05:29:00 if you implement FM synth with a couple of knobs, and an ADSR envelope, then you are much of the way toward classic DOS game music (OPL3 / AdLib) 05:29:21 i've had a lot of fun playing around with Adlib Tracker II 05:29:38 the UI is not great but you can find tutorials on youtube 05:30:05 shachaf you should get really good at Adlib Tracker and then we can make a 4k demo for DOS 05:33:54 for one of the adlib emulators they decapped an actual OPL3 chip to read out its lookup tables for more accurate emulation 05:36:08 These byte pattern sound a lot like old computer games. 05:40:58 which? 05:41:28 None in particular. 05:42:33 k 06:00:46 k 06:33:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:34:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:34:57 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:45:06 Bluhhh it's -19 °C (-2 °F) out there. That's stupid. 06:45:27 No it's not, it's a temperature. 06:45:30 You should move to Australia? 06:45:45 But I've heard there it's poisonous everything instead. 06:45:55 Every place is stupid in its own way, I understand. 06:46:08 I heard California is the place to be. 06:46:11 Fiora: Right? 06:46:32 I thought Fiora was Belgian. 06:46:51 But I've heard you need to have flour in your head there, that doesn't sound fun. 06:46:52 Bike: Since Fiora is the same person as you, you ought to know. 06:47:09 `pastelogs fizzie.*flour 06:47:21 Yes, yes, I've said that before. 06:47:33 I was wondering if it was you! 06:47:41 `? bike 06:47:47 `? Bike 06:47:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10962 06:47:54 gosh. 06:47:55 Bike is from Luxembourg. 06:47:55 Bike is from Luxembourg. 06:48:01 `? bIkE 06:48:03 Bike is from Luxembourg. 06:48:06 oh. 06:48:09 Ok, guess she's from Luxembourg then. 06:48:14 But maybe she could be, uh, wherever I am now. 06:48:23 The Maldives maybe. I hear they're nice. 06:51:06 `? Fiora 06:51:07 Fiora is from some island somewhere. She just doesn't want to be bothered, as she works out her domination plan as immortal queen of the dragons. 06:51:26 `? shachaf 06:51:27 shachaf sprø som selleri 06:51:36 Is that French? 06:51:41 `pastequotes Bike 06:51:45 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32089 06:51:54 French with ø? 06:52:22 Frøncais 06:52:42 Bike: !!!!!!! 06:52:46 I didn't know about ^O 06:52:49 O 06:52:54 O changes everything! 06:53:01 What, remove formatting? 06:53:13 also: hackego needs to learn about content types. 06:53:23 You mean codu.org does? 06:54:16 I'm sure codu is just the peripheral manifestation of HackEgo. 07:03:20 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:03:25 -!- DH____ has joined. 07:03:55 `quote 07:03:56 624) elliott: well how will you represent "The dog jumped over the lazy dog" then? 07:04:01 @quote Bike 07:04:01 sieni says: python, like php, is just training wheels without the bike 07:04:25 Kind of a bad quote. 07:04:53 I agree. 07:05:03 @quote 07:05:03 sorear says: (after someone complains of ghc using much memory) Only 500M? encode for lists is strict, I would have expected around 80GB usage... 07:05:12 @quote 07:05:12 hgolden says: pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs. at least ours will be categorical arrows. 07:05:22 what's with all these quotes 07:05:22 @quote 07:05:22 robertmassaioli says: I hereby name (>=>) as "fish" and (<=<) as "back-fish", swim fishy swim, compose those Monads. 07:05:26 @quote 07:05:26 vagif says: Sometimes i wish haskell would force me to do other good things in my life. Like for example start doing yoga or aikido again :) 07:05:52 These quotes are from other lambdabottic channels, I assume? 07:05:58 @quote 07:05:58 remember says: the 5th of november 07:06:04 Mostly #haskell 07:06:06 @quote 07:06:06 therp says: and minion pro comes with acrobat reader. I never thought that I would find this proprietary thing useful for anything than blocking my cpu 07:06:23 These are boring. 07:06:27 Need more bikes imo 07:06:29 Where are the good quotes? 07:06:30 @quote bike 07:06:30 sieni says: python, like php, is just training wheels without the bike 07:06:34 @quote bicycle 07:06:34 No quotes match. Where did you learn to type? 07:06:37 @quote unicycle 07:06:37 jjuggle says: I was riding around town and this cop on patrol on a bike rode up next to me and said, "There's always a show off." I offered to teach him to ride and help set up a unicycle patrol 07:06:37 squad, but he declined. 07:06:46 Ok, that's not bad. 07:06:48 @quote unicycle 07:06:48 dons says: xerox: what analogy or metaphor did you use? monad-as-garbage-bin? monad-as-refrigerator? monads-as-unicycle? 07:06:55 @quote unicycle 07:06:55 Cale says: The real reason for the installed size of GHC being so large is that in the background it secretly downloads a video of SPJ riding a unicycle. 07:07:04 @quote unicycle 07:07:04 Cale says: The real reason for the installed size of GHC being so large is that in the background it secretly downloads a video of SPJ riding a unicycle. 07:07:04 ...why are there so many unicycle quotes? 07:07:07 I may have a competitor here. 07:07:12 Bike: Unicycles are very popular in #haskell. 07:07:18 Why so? 07:07:32 Maybe because shapr (who started the channel) is a fan of them? 07:07:34 @quote mmorrow unicycle 07:07:34 mmorrow says: in langs with dependent types, you can just map numbers directly to types instead of having to ride a unicycle along a tightrope while battling an unruly gang of monkey with knives 07:07:37 @quote gwern unicycle 07:07:37 gwern says: I sometimes think of writing Haskell fanfiction where I ship dons and SPJ. "'Dr. Simon...' Don trailed off - 'call me Simon', Simon said, standing erect on his unicycle" 07:07:47 Also I guess SPJ rides them? 07:07:50 Going by these quotes. 07:07:58 "rides" if you know what i mean 07:08:24 @quote love 07:08:24 twb says: But, I love my job. It's like being in a rock band. i.e. no pay, but fun. 07:08:40 `quote love 07:08:41 73) I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love \ 134) I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense. \ 137) Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible) \ 172) Vorpal loves the sodomy. elliott, sure why not \ 07:09:02 fungot: do you love monoids? 07:09:04 shachaf: indeed you do. ;p cannabis and fnord are left to right 07:09:13 fungot: do i love monoids? 07:09:14 big fan of Either it seems 07:09:14 shachaf: i don't suggest adding palette support and different color space can be on lots of srfis to provide different, incompatible features to do some of those pics taken out at daytime are underexposed, i guess 07:09:25 ^style 07:09:26 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 07:09:26 color spaces in srfi. the horror... 07:09:48 monqy: do you love anything 07:09:56 no 07:09:58 (things like monoids or other things) 07:10:05 monqy: what!not even monoids 07:10:15 they are so easy :( 07:10:18 :( 07:10:30 What's a comonoid? 07:10:31 i love them though :D 07:10:42 Bike: Apparently comonoids are boring in Hask. 07:10:51 Sucks. 07:12:07 `quonqy 07:12:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quonqy: not found 07:12:09 :( 07:12:14 > :t monqy 07:12:16 :1:1: parse error on input `:' 07:12:17 :( 07:12:35 > (:t) monqy 07:12:35 Not in scope: `monqy' 07:12:59 @let (:t) = id 07:12:59 Parse error in pattern: : t 07:13:08 hooookay 07:13:08 Bike........ 07:13:18 Some things are important, shachaf. 07:13:33 Bike: You would do it by letting t = a list 07:13:38 But it won't work. 07:14:27 > (:t) 07:14:28 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 07:14:28 with actual type `Debug.Si... 07:14:38 > (\:t) 07:14:39 Not in scope: `\:' 07:14:39 Perhaps you meant one of these: 07:14:39 `\\' (imported from ... 07:14:46 \ : 07:14:52 How am I supposd to have colons in identifiers! What an outrage. 07:15:14 \: :\ 07:15:19 You can have colons in identifiers. 07:15:25 ":" is magic, though. 07:15:34 (And :t isn't an identifier.) 07:15:41 Why not? It should be. 07:16:26 Try #agda 07:16:43 Can I learn Calegda? 07:17:06 ᄑ 07:17:32 I don't speak Korean, sorry. 07:19:06 Bike: Agda lets you name identifiers almost anything! 07:19:25 agda identifier naming is cute 07:21:11 -!- SirCmpwn has changed nick to SirCmpmn. 07:21:15 -!- SirCmpmn has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 07:34:33 Oh no. :/ Every day I come to work, that dick is more and more tilted. 07:34:49 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130110-crop.jpg -> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130118-crop.jpg that's like eight days. 07:35:14 (It's about man-high, in case the scale isn't quite obvious.) 07:37:52 One of yours? 07:38:38 No, I just walk past it in the mornings these days. 07:38:40 -!- md_5|away has changed nick to md_5. 07:38:51 (It's approximately next to Ossinlampi there.) 07:41:42 kmc: I tried something -- did you get any Twitter notification? 08:07:50 -!- ogrom has joined. 08:18:41 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:54:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:03:38 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:05:06 -!- atehwa has joined. 09:08:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:24:13 -!- carado has joined. 09:25:33 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:28:41 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:42:31 -!- augur has joined. 10:10:30 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:20:05 -!- fizzie has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 10:20:32 -!- fizzie has joined. 10:53:52 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 11:03:41 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:29:10 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:46:19 https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%22armstrong%22+%22the+moon%22 11:46:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:05:17 -!- syncLock has joined. 12:05:27 Hi 12:05:42 -!- syncLock has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:08:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:11:18 -!- monqy has joined. 12:17:17 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:19:12 `welcome synLock 12:19:16 synLock: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:23:09 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 12:28:45 shachaf, OOTS update 12:53:59 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:06:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:15:28 -!- boily has joined. 13:28:44 Ok, I am hungry. I should eat. 13:42:41 Sgeo_ begins to understand the needs of his new human form 13:43:04 perhaps he shall encounter some hilarious mixup whilst attempting to purchase food with human money 13:43:59 maybe he will learn of this human thing called `love' 13:46:32 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152413599715277 ~ 100 likes per sec 13:47:48 they both look stupid enough that it might even be true 13:54:02 Heh, that was amusing. Today at work https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130118-cola1.jpg "hmm, what are those papers" https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130118-cola2.jpg 13:58:15 !!! 13:58:25 Any carbonated beverage? 13:59:04 I didn't stop to read the paper in question, but it's probably in the Internet. 14:00:01 Drinking 2 or more colas per day was associated with increased risk of chronic kidney disease (adjusted odds ratio = 2.3; 95% confidence interval = 1.4-3.7). Results were the same for regular colas (2.1; 1.3-3.4) and artificially sweetened colas (2.1; 0.7-2.5). Noncola carbonated beverages were not associated with chronic kidney disease (0.94; 0.4-2.2)." 14:00:36 (From the "Results" section I cleverly cut away.) 14:01:04 -!- oonbotti has joined. 14:01:28 What's a "cola"? 14:02:26 Oh, I'm sure they define it in the text. 14:04:21 It seems like it's just the word they used in the interviews the thing is based on. 14:06:45 That seems like a bad idea 14:08:47 Or possibly there was an explicit list. It's slightly hard to say. 14:09:01 (The interviews were done in 1982-1983.) 14:36:55 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:37:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:39:22 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 14:41:47 -!- boink666 has joined. 14:42:01 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:44:56 -!- davidwerecat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:46:04 Whoops. I drink 2 litres of Cola a day :-( 14:48:27 DEAD MAN WALKING 14:50:44 lots of things seem to hate kidneys 14:50:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurses%27_Health_Study showed a 50% increase in the most common form of kidney cancer from regularly taking nsaids 14:51:56 cookies mean no harm! studies be crazy! 14:53:48 At the rate of likes, Petter Kverneng should be getting laid in approx 62 minutes! 14:54:18 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 14:56:00 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:56:17 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 14:58:55 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 14:59:23 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Client Quit). 14:59:30 -!- tswett has joined. 15:09:23 I commented on a Dilbert strip 15:09:30 The comment appears not to be present 15:11:33 impomatic, I think it got another hundred thousand between when you said that and just now 15:11:48 (Or when I checked after you said that and just now, to be more exact) 15:27:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:53:42 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 16:07:57 Fiora: o_O 16:10:59 jesus christ how is it this snowy in the midlans 16:11:02 *midlands 16:32:07 Fiora: do you know how often they mean by "regularly"? 16:33:15 q 16:34:07 1,101,114 people like this. 16:41:55 :P 16:45:41 Is this a horribly unprofessional picture? 16:45:41 http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/media/p/1/000/1ef/023/1a57a0b.jpg 16:47:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:47:13 who cares ? 16:48:12 That's my LinkedIn profile picture, I don't know if it's bad 16:49:26 it's a fine picture 16:49:33 i would adjust the color levels though 16:49:43 well, I have a happy cookie for a pic, so it is definately "better" if the people searching judge by the profile pic or its quality 16:51:47 * Sgeo_ doesn't really know anything about color levels 16:52:07 Except I used an EXIF viewer on it to make sure my location wasn't in it, and it said something about random color levels 16:53:44 you can load it in Gimp and play with the levels and curves dialogs 16:53:52 there's an 'auto' button that usually does an ok job 16:55:41 I think the next thing I want to do is rewrite my resume in LyX 17:01:50 -!- boink666 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:02:04 mine is written in LaTeX and based on http://www.mcnabbs.org/andrew/linux/latexres/ 17:02:26 mine is non-existent but it's written in @ 17:02:30 do i win 17:02:35 -!- carado has joined. 17:02:39 yes 17:03:14 -!- aloril has joined. 17:04:35 You should put that on your résumé. 17:07:35 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:10:19 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 17:11:36 elliott's resume is just the single character '@' sized to fill a sheet of A4 paper 17:11:52 hahahaha 17:12:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:12:17 see also http://i.huffpost.com/gen/683049/thumbs/o-NIC-CAGE-JOB-APPLICATION-570.jpg?12 17:15:10 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:16:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:20:22 you know, if our current topic were an accurate representation of our community's way of working, i suspect the languages on the wiki would be quite a bit more interesting. 17:21:29 shachaf, OOTS update <-- ooh 17:22:17 `run echo "echo shachaf oerjan" > bin/olist 17:22:21 No output. 17:22:25 thanks! 17:22:31 `run chmod a+x bin/olist 17:22:34 No output. 17:22:34 `olist 17:22:35 shachaf oerjan 17:22:38 :) 17:22:43 yw 17:25:09 RSS shunning syndrome, one of the worst ailments known to webcomic fans 17:31:14 Jafet: i actually had OOTS on rss once, but something was so buggy it kept giving me old comics as new 17:31:49 The old strips were the better ones, anyway. 17:32:02 that may be 17:35:15 oerjan, the Twitter feed I maintain bugged out like that once 17:35:34 they both look stupid enough that it might even be true <-- name looks norwegian too 17:35:36 Because I was using an old service. That service stopped working, so I added one, but never removed permissions from the old one 17:40:46 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 17:41:45 That's my LinkedIn profile picture, I don't know if it's bad <-- now i know what you look like *MWAHAHAHA* also that picture should give you some excellent offers, provided you are looking for a career in crime 17:42:19 try smiling next time hth 17:43:25 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:43:38 (it takes skill _not_ to look like a criminal in photobox pictures.) 17:44:31 photobox? 17:44:41 i hear that crime pays 17:45:24 it looks like it's taken in one of those cheap airport of whereever boxes with curtains 17:46:05 * Sgeo_ used a mirror, his phone, and an image editor with a cropping tool 17:47:04 right, probably even worse. 17:47:40 i recall i once had an id photo that i was quite satisfied with. but i got it after visiting a professional photographer shop. 17:48:27 He was wearing a caulander on his head. 17:48:55 grraaargh 17:49:00 fuck S3 17:49:02 (the group) 17:49:36 what's to complain about it, it's even solvable! 17:49:51 when you get to S5 you can start complaining 17:50:00 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 17:51:01 oerjan: I've got a graph. I need to show it's a Cayley graph. I think it's over S_3^2 17:51:16 OKAY 17:51:24 * oerjan doesn't remember cayley graphs. 17:52:28 oerjan: let G be a group and let C be a sub*set* of the group that is closed under inverse and doesn't contain the identity 17:53:12 Define X(G,C) to be the graph where V(X(G,C)) = G and where a ~ b iff ab^{-1} \in C 17:54:02 I know that in this case, |G| = 36 and |C| = 15 17:54:04 wheee 17:56:12 hm i guess you don't have the colors described in the wikipedia article 17:57:37 36 vertices and each vertex has 15 adjacent edges? 17:58:52 that's going to be a messy diagram 18:01:18 Gregor: wiktionary helpfully asks "Did you mean: colander" 18:01:34 which seems to fit, i guess 18:03:37 OK, so I can't spell AND you don't know the joke X-D 18:04:38 oerjan: yeah, we aren't working with colors 18:04:44 oerjan: so yeah, it's messy 18:05:48 15+1 = 4*4, is it possible that it's taken by using 3 generators + the identity from each factor group? 18:06:04 (and then dropping the identity of the whole) 18:06:29 possible, but please don't help 18:06:31 I'm just ranting 18:06:38 it's noted on wp that the cayley group of a product is a product of the graphs 18:06:50 *a cayley graph 18:07:18 WELL EXCUUUUUUSE ME 18:10:03 (Princess) 18:13:31 i would have added that but coppro makes a pretty shitty princess 18:15:44 *shittty 18:25:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:25:49 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 18:27:45 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:28:27 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 18:32:52 oerjan: yes, please stop helping, this is homework 18:35:16 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:36:19 oerjan: i want to know the answer. please tell me. 18:37:00 oerjan: I want coppro to fail his homework after cheating. please tell him. 18:44:45 elliott: i don't actually know the answer, as he hasn't provided the actual graph... 18:45:19 technicalities. 18:49:24 we don't have A4 paper here in America 18:49:43 we have something that is basically the same but slightly different for no reason 18:49:46 of course 18:52:02 I just tried to print a quick LibreOffice document today. It had defaulted to Letter, and then I got to fiddle with really unintuitive printer menus to tell it to go ahead and put it on A4 instead. 18:52:19 It was the 2013 equivalent of PC LOAD LETTER. 18:52:28 is this non sequitur friday? 18:52:39 oklopol: not yet, I have my orange shirt on. 18:53:19 I assume this was still in the context of the hour-and-a-half-ago comment that involved A4 paper. 18:53:24 * oerjan imagines boily highlighting on "non sequitur" 18:54:01 rather imagine me actually highlighting on *non sequiturs*. 18:54:42 because i like being imagined 18:55:10 -!- Bike has joined. 18:55:17 sorry, your ai-complete technology is unimaginable 18:55:24 trust me trust me trust me yeah! 18:55:43 O ... KAY 18:56:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdvWBgyfKLg 18:56:21 * Sgeo_ has that song in his head 18:58:07 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 19:03:59 -!- monqy has joined. 19:12:26 monqy hi monqy 19:12:32 hi monqy hi 19:13:08 #esoteric is like 50% hi monqy, 50% homestuck updates 19:13:08 Nothing here 19:13:30 hi sgeo 19:13:43 wait, is there a homestuck update? 19:14:55 +1 19:16:24 last night someone asked me whether the Cartesian product ordinals*ordinals was a thing 19:16:35 well it's a collection 19:16:37 just fyi 19:16:55 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 19:17:27 a collection of what 19:18:02 Bike: good question 19:18:14 a collection of ordered pairs of ordinals 19:18:26 if the ordinals are a class in the NGB sense, then so is their cartesian product. 19:18:33 but good question, that's how you maths 19:18:53 *NBG 19:19:07 so do ordinals form a class? or just a "collection", whatever that is 19:19:16 (and by if, i mean they do) 19:19:25 well then. 19:19:28 ... uh, s/collection/class 19:19:38 i'll just go hide in a corner now 19:20:34 basically since the pair of two ordinals is a set, you can make the class of all of them 19:20:52 right 19:27:02 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:29:58 How do code browsers work in prototype-based OO environments? 19:31:36 "Self worlds can be built from scratch from the sources - see below for download instructions. " 19:31:37 o.O 19:33:43 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 19:36:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:39:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 19:42:55 * Sgeo_ wonders if web browsers count as browsers in the Smalltalk sense at all 19:43:43 maybe if HTTP had more messages than GET and PUT 19:43:56 did smalltalk and the web ever exist at the same time? 19:43:57 There's POST PATCH and DELETE too. 19:44:07 Er, POST HEAD and DELETE 19:44:11 I think PATCH is nonstandard maybe 19:44:25 olsner, Smalltalk didn't exist. There wasn't an EMP that wiped all Smalltalk images and now Smalltalk is dead forever, or anything 19:44:34 ....*Smalltalk didn't stop existing 19:44:39 yes there was 19:44:51 There's OPTIONS and CONNECT, too. 19:45:27 (And I suppose POST is in fact more common than PUT.) 19:46:00 I think get, head and post are the only ones used in practice 19:46:23 CONNECT is used when you want to use a proxy for HTTPS stuff. 19:46:34 The sort of proxy that doesn't man-in-the-middle you, anyway. 19:47:07 (The PATCH method -- RFC5789 -- seems to be at PROPOSED STANDARD status at the moment.) 19:47:55 WebDAV adds quite a few methods too, but maybe that doesn't quite count as HTTP any more. 19:48:17 Though the official name *is* "HTTP Extensions for Web Distributed Authoring and Versioning (WebDAV)". 19:48:53 does http allow arbitrary methods? or do you make an extended http when you make up a method? 19:49:09 GET, POST and HEAD are the only pre-1.1 ones, so it sort of makes sense they're also the only ones that get used. 19:49:12 Nope, the standard doesn't allow extra methods. 19:49:30 Yeah and apparently some browsers (or perhaps mostly proxies) have trouble understanding anything besides HEAD/GET/POST 19:49:47 "The set of common methods for HTTP/1.1 is defined below. Although this set can be expanded, additional methods cannot be assumed to share the same semantics for separately extended clients and servers." 19:49:50 So pretty much every "hey we're RESTful yo" kinda thing actually uses POST for everything and a field to specify the "actual" method. 20:03:32 -!- FreeFull_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:05:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:08:42 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:10:20 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 20:12:13 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:12:16 kmc: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/commonly-used-pain-pills-increase-kidney-cancer-risk-in-study.html 20:12:54 bleh, it doen't have a link to the study :< 20:13:09 * Fiora keeps using ibuprofen anywas >.>; 20:13:40 Everything that "increases cancer risk" ends up in the news 20:13:54 Even if it's only when you get 50kg of it every day or it only increases it by 0.00000002% or whatever 20:14:09 that was from the Nurse's Study though, which is rather a big deal 20:14:15 yeah 20:14:22 (51% increase in risk, N=125000 over 20 years) 20:14:25 that's too bad 20:14:39 i take ibuprofen when I have a headache which is... not that often? 20:14:44 but maybe i should try harder not to 20:14:45 Yeah, basically the same here 20:14:47 i thought it was super safe :( 20:15:08 Tylenol always worries me though because of its liver toxicity 20:15:12 yes 20:15:19 I wonder if they found any link there, or if it's only if you take too much 20:15:41 how does that compound with alcohol i wonder 20:16:41 wikipedia says chronic alcohol abuse increases the risk of tylenol (probably since it means less liver cells so easier to reach a toxic dose?) 20:17:59 I really wish wikipedia had the p-values for some of the results from that study though 20:18:03 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:18:57 i don't trust p-values 20:19:11 20 people do a study, 19 people get no result and don't publish, one person gets an awesome significant p=0.05 result!! 20:19:52 is this a sarcastic xkcd joke, i'm confused 20:20:10 no it's just a thing that happens 20:20:42 i guess once xkcd makes a strip about any existing phenomenon or item of culture it becomes forever 'an xkcd reference' 20:21:05 i'm just trying to correlate the possibly sarcastic multiple exclamation marks with your use of goatkcd 20:21:05 people are trying to convince scientists to publish negative results. 20:21:12 indeed 20:21:22 sounds boring to read though 20:21:28 some of the negative results journals are interesting reading actually 20:21:34 rly? 20:21:36 like you meant "haha, people who say they don't trust p-values don't know anything about stats and are just parroting xkcd" 20:21:46 a lot of them are like "this seemed promising but we ran out of funding before we could finish" 20:21:56 Bike: sorry 4 the confusn 20:22:02 http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124 also 20:22:08 also it's just fun to see what people think of trying 20:22:20 kmc: I meant more that, it's such a huge study that it'd be cool to know which conclusions are reliable 20:22:29 like, I could totally believe them finding conclusions with p=0.001 20:22:36 http://www.jnrbm.com/ 20:22:37 since most studies have 100 times lower 20:22:39 *lower N 20:22:41 yeah 20:22:47 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:22:49 that's kind of artifical though 20:23:08 if you pick any two things in the world, there is probably *some* correlation and if you pump the sample size high enough, you can get any p value you want 20:23:16 I just don't take painkillers 20:23:17 that "most published research findings are false" is awesome though 20:23:31 it seems to work out okay because I can never tell if they are working or not anyway 20:23:42 "Could titanium oxide coating from a sol--gel process make stone baskets more resistant to laser radiation at 2.1 mum?" 20:23:43 -!- Bike has joined. 20:23:45 "no" 20:24:23 ibuprofen is like, the only NSAID that works well for me >_< 20:24:41 kmc: correlation between bathtub manufacturing and dying in space 20:24:54 wonder if i should look up studies on the effectiveness of the antidepressants i'm on 20:24:57 You're right. The actual result probably won't affect my life too much, but it's interesting to see what they did, how they did it, and why they got the results they did. 20:24:58 probably would not cheer me 20:25:12 elliott: torture the data and it will admit to anything 20:25:40 just use a log log plot 20:26:04 why torture the data? just torture the subjects and they'll give you any data you want 20:26:08 the side-effects of SSRIs don't seem so bad at least 20:26:25 they're really bad for some people 20:26:34 you mean besides the increase in suicidal ideation or 20:26:41 also once you're on them it's hell to get off 20:27:00 fucking three pages of warnings about how i'm going to die, man. 20:27:03 I thought the increase in suicidal ideation was immediate after starting them, because it gave people more motivation? XD 20:27:11 *immediately 20:27:16 yeah that's what i've heard too 20:27:18 motivation isn't ideation, but there's that too yes 20:27:43 something like, it increases motivation before it starts treating depression? 20:27:47 I dunno, I ran out of mine a while ago and really didn't feel like going to ask for more 20:28:05 did you have awful withdrawal symptoms? 20:28:07 olsner: in part. 20:28:22 I followed the same regime as for starting (cut dose in half, then to zero after a week) 20:28:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:28:27 I didn't notice anything 20:29:02 I was kind of frustrated that they conflicted with tryptans 20:29:15 "tryptans are totally safe! except if you're taking SSRIs. then they'll kill you." 20:29:31 Tylenol always worries me though because of its liver toxicity 20:30:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:30:13 err, according to wikipedia, tryptan is an essential amino acid? 20:30:14 erm. triptan. 20:30:15 I'm pretty sure it's safe in reasonable doses? 20:30:17 not tryptan. they are not the same thing. 20:30:19 damnit biology 20:30:49 Phantom__Hoover: yeah, it's just like, it has a relatively low gap between toxic and effectivenes.s I forgot what the word was for (toxic dose) / (effective dose) 20:31:02 the max dose per day is around ~4g, the toxic dose is around... 10g 20:31:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:31:36 Yeah, you need to be very aware of how much you've taken. 20:31:52 there are a lot of physicians who think tylenol should not be available over the counter 20:31:58 huh. interesting 20:32:29 they feel it's that dangerous relative to the others? 20:32:44 paracetamol (AMERICAN TRANSLATION: TYLENOL) scares me 20:32:45 yeah for this reason 20:32:57 the toxic dose is not much higher than the effective dose 20:32:59 probably the incredibly wide use is a factor 20:33:04 it's easy to kill yourself accidentally or deliberately 20:33:25 I remember reading that it's really dangerous suicide-wise because it's easy to take a whole bunch and not die immediately, and feel fine 20:33:29 but 3 days later your liver fails 20:33:31 having used as the default pain killer forever, I am not the least scared of paracetamol 20:33:43 hmm, accidentally a paracetamol there 20:33:45 Oh, is paracetamol the same thing as tylenol? I had no idea. 20:33:47 Fiora: iirc by the time you feel anything it is already too late and you are going to die no matter what, or something 20:33:51 I'm not scared of it probably because my parents have been giving it to me since forever and they're doctors? 20:33:53 a close friend of mine actually tried to kill herself with tylenol a few years ago 20:34:01 she probably survived because she managed to puke it all up 20:34:04 Fiora: "acetaminophen" 20:34:04 Tylenol scares me, but Aspirin is probably more dangerous for me since I'd need to force myself to eat 20:34:09 -!- azaq23 has joined. 20:34:17 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:34:27 As far as I know my liver is in good working order, and I am careful with how much Tylenol I take 20:34:36 fizzie: yeah, it's also called APAP 20:34:39 (My mother was actually in a transplant ward with a woman who lost her leg and liver from an accidental overdose.) 20:35:10 I remember also that like surgeons tell people to take tylenol instead of NSAIDs during recovery I think, because it isn't a blood thinner 20:35:13 while aspirin/ibuprofen are 20:35:19 There's a brand in Finland too, but it's also known as paracetamol. I keep forgetting it. 20:35:23 Panadol, right. 20:35:57 That sure has a long list of countries in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paracetamol_brand_names next to it. 20:36:03 I'm told that paracetamol is also more effective against headaches whilst ibuprofen is better for muscle pain. 20:36:42 fizzie, "Neo-Kiddielets" 20:37:01 And "Biogesic-Kiddielets" 20:37:40 Ireland has a lot of brands for paracetamol 20:38:06 I love eating biogesic kiddielets to make me feel better. 20:38:10 Biogesic adults just aren't as tasty :( 20:38:26 Calpol! I remember Calpol! 20:38:31 It tasted dangerously nice. 20:38:32 «Paracetamol hepatotoxicity is, by far, the most common cause of acute liver failure in both the United States and the United Kingdom» huh 20:38:41 Bike, note the 'acute'. 20:38:52 Phantom__Hoover: dude... 20:38:53 Alchohol-induced liver failure doesn't count. 20:38:55 Calpol tastes disgusting. 20:38:59 elliott, ... 20:39:00 gonna be honest, I don't know what "acute" means in this context. 20:39:10 Bike: well ugly liver failure is far worse 20:39:11 Bike, acute is basically "bam your liver's dead" 20:39:25 oh good 20:39:29 Phantom__Hoover: Look OK the only decent-tasting paracetamol is that banana-flavoured stuff I had when I was a kid. 20:39:31 yeah, it's like "not chronic damage" 20:39:44 since alcohol is probably not going to destroy your liver in one go 20:39:49 (let me tell you about how I can't swallow pills and therefore have to deal with the fact that all liquid medicine is the worst thing :( ) 20:40:02 you can't swallow pills? 20:40:04 how can you be unable to swallow pills? 20:40:13 I have no idea, I just literally can't 20:40:16 do they get stuck in your throat or something 20:40:19 that's the worst 20:40:19 that sucks 20:40:19 it might well be psychological 20:40:37 just stick the pills in food and chug it down? 20:40:39 like I can have the pill in my mouth and everything but I just cannot make the actual movements required to get it down 20:40:44 Ibuprofen is our to-go pain medicine, by the way, just to add one more point of data. (But I know of people who go with paracetamol.) 20:41:00 i keep dry swallowing my pills even though i suspect that exacerbates one of the side effects 20:41:04 I've found that drinking milk instead of water works relaly well 20:41:09 olsner: doesn't work (which points to it being psychological I guess) 20:41:09 in that I often can't even tell the pill is there 20:41:17 Fiora: That's because your mouth-eye then can't see it. 20:41:21 XD 20:41:27 (I may have not studied much of biology.) 20:41:29 elliott: you can swollow food then? 20:41:32 so THAT'S what the dangly thing is 20:41:34 olsner: yes... 20:41:46 "no, i can't swallow food" 20:41:49 is that what you expected 20:41:54 Bike: yes 20:42:02 well gregor can't smell 20:42:03 elliott: What about stones? (Isn't that how digestion works? As mentioned, still pretty hazy on this...) 20:42:04 same thing right 20:42:07 elliott, what if it was some sort of schroedinger's pill arrangement 20:42:08 #esoteric: full a weirdos 20:42:17 my mouth is actually sewn shut, i have to get all my nutrition through IV tubing 20:42:28 the worst thing are those pills that don't have a proper casing and just tasty super nasty 20:42:28 elliott: you should team up! you smell the food and then gregor can eat it 20:42:29 i'm a hoover :( 20:42:33 i don't have a mouth 20:42:39 Fiora: welcome to my world 20:42:41 IV food tubes are... sure something 20:42:51 one pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small 20:43:18 there is portable IV food tube stuff and it is the most cumbersome looking thing in the universe 20:43:28 "The diameter of a feeding tube is measured in French units (each French unit equals 0.33 millimeters)" what on earth 20:43:29 And the ones that mother gives you, they do nothing at all. 20:43:38 elliott, sounds like Sgeo_'s kind of thing 20:43:41 Or is that "don't do"? 20:43:43 but guys the worst thing about pills 20:43:44 It's something like that. 20:43:45 "A catheter of 1 French has a diameter of ⅓ mm" I... but... 20:43:46 is that you take one 20:43:49 and suddenly you escape the matrix 20:43:52 "don't do anything at all" iirc 20:43:52 and you're plugged into this fucking thing 20:44:02 elliott: you should team up! you smell the food and then gregor can eat it // worst superhero duo ever 20:44:03 olsner: That sounds more correct, yes. 20:44:06 and then you have to go fight a bunch of dudes to save the world 20:44:22 and your life gets turned into a 1999 scifi film 20:44:24 what the fuck is the point of this! 20:44:26 never again 20:44:26 do you get to shoot elrond and stark too 20:44:50 Phantom__Hoover: do you hoover up food 20:44:56 eew no 20:45:28 fizzie: i think it's "don't do anything at all" 20:45:30 just remember that elrond is not priscilla, because priscilla is (iirc) the bus 20:45:50 kmc: olsner just SCOOPED you few lines up, but yes. 20:45:54 ok 20:45:57 i've been scooped 20:46:02 scooped like poop 20:46:17 Is getting scooped up better than getting hoovered? 20:46:21 In general, I mean. 20:46:33 I think so, yes 20:46:56 depending somewhat on the carefulness of the scooping 20:54:42 What would a language that would be higher-level than, say, haskell, look like? 20:55:14 you write English sentences and it executes them 20:55:44 FreeFull_: ask kmc 20:56:08 "higher-level" meaning what 20:56:09 Ada. 20:56:22 It's used by the US air force -- you can't get higher-level than that, right? 20:56:34 nasa! 20:56:49 I guess that's true. 20:56:51 nasa uses java. what now 20:57:02 Well then. 20:57:07 I guess it's Java. 20:57:13 the software on voyager 20:57:17 that should be the highest right? 20:57:20 * shachaf installed GNAT yesterday for some reason. 20:57:23 technically 20:57:37 Does "high" mean "far from the earth"? 20:57:44 and the software on voyager is some godforsaken nightmare assembly, from what i remember of the apollo computers 20:57:45 programming in English would be terrible, have you tried giving precise instructions to a *person* in English? 20:57:47 lesson learned: shit sucks 20:58:12 domains that need precision (like law) develop their own unusual dialects of English that resemble programming languages a lot more 20:58:14 Ada is a weird language. 20:58:15 for the other meaning of "high", I guess English could actually work 20:58:28 Sgeo_: You should make Ada the new Clojure. 20:58:38 ^^^^^ this 20:58:55 Haskell on a shelf 20:58:57 Haskell with weed 20:59:04 Haskell in a rocket 20:59:16 haskell in hats 20:59:16 ada's typing is actually kinda neat 20:59:26 What's the thing that was apparently debugged and fixed on a REPL while in space? 20:59:50 shachaf: cobol was the new clojure for a while 20:59:52 that was an interesting time 20:59:54 deep space explorer or something, and that's not really an accurate story, they used a sim 21:00:05 Looking at Ada right now 21:00:15 i hope you realise fizzie was joking 21:00:20 And looks good, other than looking a bit imperative 21:00:30 hahaha 21:00:51 Sgeo_: yeah, you're thinking of DS1's Remote Agent. 21:02:04 lambdabot doesn't have System.Cmd imported, does it 21:02:32 > system "echo test" 21:02:34 Not in scope: `system' 21:02:50 Sgeo_: one of the Mars rovers froze up due to a basic priority inversion deadlock and they had to fix it via the VxWorks serial console, with mars lag 21:03:04 kmc: ouch 21:03:14 kind of crazy to think they, like, use vxworks 21:03:14 in space 21:03:17 yeah 21:03:21 "not as crazy as using linux" 21:03:23 There's also Linux in space. 21:03:27 that's, like, a human OS 21:03:45 i admit i would not trust linux in space 21:03:48 no way 21:03:52 For anything that has that amount of lag, you want to be able to do whatever you want locally first to see if it works 21:03:56 human OS as in "just as unreliable as humans"? 21:03:58 especially not if humans are involved 21:04:01 not that there ever are these days 21:04:08 olsner: no as in humans wrote it :P 21:04:18 elliott: What OS would you put in space? 21:04:21 on the ISS they use lenovo thinkpads 21:04:25 it's really quite silly and pointless to put humans in space 21:04:31 probably with windows? 21:04:34 elliott: mars rover 0wned due to accidentally included driver for printer from 1983 21:04:39 haha 21:04:45 that would be pretty sweet 21:04:55 mars rover 0wned through video4linux1 firmware 32-bit compatibility layer 21:04:58 4chan hacks mars rover, it starts printing out obscenities through its printer 21:05:01 while moving 21:05:09 mars rover draws giant goatse on surface of mars 21:05:11 "shit why did we even put CUPS on this thing?" 21:05:12 trail of paper dicks spread throughout mars 21:05:25 "i dunno, fedora is hard okay" 21:05:29 aliens arrive believing it to be a mating display 21:05:31 You reminded me of a thing. 21:05:37 i like the idea of the mars rover having a printer sort of by accident 21:05:37 Bike: imo so easy 21:05:46 "well the computer came with it when we bought it from Gateway" 21:05:46 aliens mating with 4chan? awesome 21:05:53 4chan makes first contact 21:06:00 we come in peace tits or gtfo 21:06:18 shachaf: end result: nasa ends up having a distribution choice flamewar with Beaky 21:06:32 oh does beaky have opinions about linux distros?!?!? 21:06:33 tell me more 21:06:39 Nasa puts Arch on the mars rover. The system then proceeds to break after an update and never work again 21:06:58 see just like that. i am the linux whisperer. 21:07:02 nasa puts Gentoo on mars rover, batteries run down while recompiling openoffice 21:07:29 http://isometric.sixsided.org/strips/the_future_of_advertising/ this is what you went and reminded me of. 21:07:35 NASA puts its own linux distro on the rover. Stallman demands source code. 21:08:02 fizzie: i like how the images inexplicably don't show 21:08:14 mars missions are perfect for source-based distros though, gives you plenty of time to compile the base system before you get there 21:08:16 holy shit talking cubes 21:08:20 It worked for me. But the site is the mess. 21:08:30 funny how the gnu ada compiler is called gnat 21:08:40 fizzie: haha 21:08:42 are you using "chromium" 21:08:46 olsner: You could cross-compile 21:08:49 elliott: I am using that. 21:08:51 i think i will send http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_future_of_advertising/7.gif to a friend with no context 21:08:52 i'm using "chromium" and it worked 21:09:01 it's just white for me 21:09:01 help 21:09:04 Even sending the binaries over would take a lot of time though 21:09:10 FreeFull_: it's also written in ada and requires gnat to build, iirc 21:09:18 sav eme!!!! 21:09:26 um 21:09:30 looking at the DOM in the html inspector 21:09:35 it thinks it's just composed of
s in divs 21:09:37 olsner: All languages should be written in C 21:09:37 with no image tags 21:09:44 maybe they have CSS background images 21:09:48 what is the UP 21:09:51
21:09:51 21:09:51
21:09:52
21:10:11 Chromium 24.0.1312.52 21:10:12 you two? 21:10:13 FreeFull_: the delivery system would string along a PC to cross-compile the OS for the rover on the way over? 21:10:22 That future of advertising page appears completely blank to me with firefox 18 21:10:24 Just a scrollbar 21:10:39 FreeFull_: Is there a "More" at the bottom 21:10:40 I'm seeing the word "more" at the bottom but that's it 21:10:40 olsner: That sounds expensive 21:10:44 elliott: no 21:10:45 also firefox 21:10:46 Oh 21:10:47 Yes 21:10:50 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:10:51 hm 21:10:54 maybe the jquery is fucking it up 21:10:59 Bike: fizzie: do you two have js disabled 21:11:01 Clicking it takes me to another page that is all black 21:11:02 kmc: I had http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/only_when_youre_ready/21.gif printed with a dot matrix printer on tractor feed paper as a wall decoration back when. 21:11:08 elliott: I do not have js disabled. 21:11:10 elliott: no 21:11:19 heeeelp 21:11:24 do you have jesus disabled 21:11:28 hm 21:11:31 kmc: Yes 21:11:32 disabling js now shows images 21:11:35 but they're all a "broken image" icon 21:11:37 I didn't know that could cause issues 21:11:40 The site: it's a mess. 21:12:02 It used to have some sort of malware javascript infestation at some point too. ("You're welcome" if it still has one on some pages.) 21:12:18 i dont understand 21:12:21 how can such simple html be fucked up 21:12:46 why doesn't disabling javascript help? 21:13:07 elliott: Screwed up css and javascript? 21:13:17 Disabling javascript didn't fix anything for me, although it should have 21:13:40 seems like it should be screwed up css, but I can't find anything in there either 21:13:46 okay this comic is like seven jpegs in sequence, how can it not be rendering, what the heck 21:13:48 I'll try with midori 21:14:09 Time to watch some DS9 21:14:15 kmc: It looked like https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130118-juliste1.jpg this. 21:14:28 did you read "The Man Who Sold the Moon" 21:14:35 nice 21:14:39 And then I need to force myself to work on resume 21:15:33 The website works in midori 21:15:38 I still don't see how it doesn't in firefox 21:15:45 The firefox web console doesn't give any errors 21:15:47 FreeFull_: It's: a mess. 21:15:52 Bike: i hav eno idea 21:15:58 it works in chrome 21:16:02 it makes N O S E N S E 21:16:09 wait now it doesn't 21:16:17 Snowyowl: It's some kind of a heisensite. 21:16:17 what have i unleashed 21:16:22 ... it vanished while I was tabbed out 21:17:35 http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/the_future_of_advertising/16.gif k 21:18:38 It works in links2 21:25:15 Why is Self dead? 21:26:04 Sgeo_: Just use Ada. 21:26:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:26:37 we used to have our introduction to imperative programming in ada 21:29:26 Instead of resumeing I am watching videos of Brogue 21:29:48 No I'm not 21:29:50 I'm bored. 21:30:16 here, read: http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/903 21:37:06 "Thanks. I am not trying to be an asshole, but the way I see it is if a company doesn't bother responding to me when it is a private matter, they don't deserve the opportunity to try and respond to me because it became a public matter." 21:37:09 --a reddit comment 21:37:30 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:38:57 shachaf: I started learning about how OCB works internally! 21:39:20 there are a few thing that look strange to me 21:39:25 but i only know enough crypto to be dangerous 21:39:27 they are probably fine 21:39:35 What are the things? 21:39:55 OCB? 21:40:02 a block cipher mode, ocb 21:40:04 err 21:40:07 http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/ocb/ocb-faq.htm 21:40:39 shachaf: well for example, the integrity tag is computed (essentially) by simply xoring all the plaintext blocks and then encrypting that 21:40:55 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:41:11 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Snowyowl). 21:41:55 kmc: That does sound rather weird 21:41:59 So if you add an all-zero block you get the same tag? 21:42:22 no, because the number of blocks will change 21:42:43 but what if you transpose two blocks? 21:42:47 OK, if you swap two blocks you get the same tag? 21:42:49 Right. 21:43:05 i don't know, i should try it 21:45:22 but if you swap two blocks in the ciphertext, the tag will be wrong because the two plaintexts will come out completely wrong 21:45:51 Sure. 21:46:21 oh and an attacker can't use this to discover if one message is a transposition of another 21:46:25 because the nonce will be different 21:46:47 still vaguely sketchy 21:47:04 Oops, I completely forgot about http://crypto.stanford.edu/RealWorldCrypto/program.php :-( 21:47:20 Apparently it was last week. 21:49:06 I think at the time I heard about it I thought I wouldn't be in CA that week. 21:51:35 -!- jdiez has left. 21:58:27 -!- derkus has changed nick to dessos. 21:58:40 apparently shitake mushroom mycelium can be encouraged to fruit by beating the crap out of it with sticks 21:58:50 this was discovered when some monk got pissed off that his mushrooms weren't growing 22:00:27 i thought monks were meant to be serene and at one with the universe 22:00:46 and priests are supposed to be celibate 22:02:09 -!- monqy has joined. 22:04:29 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:04:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:04:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Client Quit). 22:11:40 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:12:52 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:14:29 -!- heroux has joined. 22:17:23 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:19:05 o.O DCSS keeps advancing 22:19:08 There's now 0.11 22:24:10 yes sgeo 22:24:13 software gets released 22:24:54 Unless it's NetHack past 3.4.3 22:26:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:26:36 If I have a binding in ghci, how do I get rid of it? 22:27:05 I accidentally declared overlapping instances and had to restart ghci to get rid of them 22:29:04 That's it. Fuck Kopete. 22:29:17 FreeFull: try #haskell 22:29:37 I then read that :r will get rid of all bindings (which wouldn't have been useful) 22:29:41 Ok 22:43:52 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 22:44:21 -!- ogrom has joined. 22:44:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:44:47 `list 22:44:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/list: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/list: cannot execute: Permission denied 22:45:00 `run chmod a+x bin/list 22:45:03 No output. 22:45:05 `list 22:45:06 ​/hackenv/bin/list: line 1: Taneb: command not found 22:45:14 `echo bin/list 22:45:16 bin/list 22:45:22 `cat bin/list 22:45:24 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot shachaf 22:45:31 wat 22:46:13 so just put in "echo" 22:47:55 Something to do with sed? 22:48:39 `run sed -i s/Taneb/echo Taneb/ bin/list 22:48:41 sed: -e expression #1, char 12: unterminated `s' command 22:48:43 #!/bin/cat 22:48:46 `run sed -i s/Taneb/echo/ Taneb/ bin/list 22:48:49 sed: can't read Taneb/: No such file or directory 22:48:57 Sgeo_ why am i on the regular list 22:49:00 kmc: haha, does that actually work? 22:49:00 `run sed -i "s/Taneb/echo/ Taneb/" bin/list 22:49:01 sed: -e expression #1, char 15: unknown option to `s' 22:49:06 shachaf, I haveno idea 22:49:09 take me off!! 22:49:17 Take off yourself 22:49:22 `run sed -i s/shachaf// bin/list 22:49:26 No output. 22:49:28 Thike 22:49:37 `run sed -i "s/Taneb/echo Taneb/" bin/list 22:49:38 No output. 22:49:44 Bike: sure, easiest language to write a quine in 22:49:44 `cat bin/list 22:49:45 echo atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 22:49:54 kmc: cool beans 22:49:58 Why is Taneb not on there 22:50:23 what we need is irc-based vi. 22:50:31 `mkdir quines 22:50:31 I tried to /nick echo but echo is online 22:50:32 No output. 22:50:44 Whoever echo is, e's on the list 22:50:53 `run touch quines/ruby 22:50:56 No output. 22:50:59 `run touch quines/python quines/perl 22:50:59 editors like ed made more sense when I realized they were originally used off-line 22:51:03 No output. 22:51:09 off-line? 22:51:09 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:51:10 `run touch quines/cat 22:51:12 "a square is a quadrilateral in the category of rectangles" 22:51:13 No output. 22:51:27 Sgeo_: imagine using it over irc 22:51:42 * Sgeo_ doesn't really know what ed was like 22:51:48 `run chmod +x quines/cat 22:51:50 No output. 22:52:01 "was", he says 22:52:14 No, don't +x 22:52:20 `ruby quines/ruby 22:52:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found 22:52:26 Pft. 22:52:28 "When first invoked, ed is in command mode. In this mode commands are read from the standard input and executed to manipulate the contents of the editor buffer." 22:52:29 like you would get a printout of compiler errors and prepare by hand an editor script to fix them 22:52:31 I think hussie is going to have it a running gag that fefeta never talks on-screen 22:52:40 `run sed -i "s/echo/echo\ Taneb/" bin/list 22:52:40 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 22:52:43 No output. 22:52:47 `cat bin/list 22:52:48 echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo alot 22:52:49 that way you aren't using insanely expensive computer time to fix your dumb mistakes 22:53:00 Ah 22:53:05 thank god we have Eclipse now 22:54:15 Java is the replacement for COBOL 22:54:30 ¬_¬ 22:54:32 Java is a COBOL in the category of FreeFull 22:54:52 I can never decide what's more annoying, people hating on Java for bad reasons, or ava. 22:54:55 *Java 22:55:11 Bike: Java is insanely better than COBOL 22:55:28 Have you ever used COBOL? 22:55:43 No, only saw some 22:55:54 Would you say Java is worse than COBOL then? 22:56:08 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:56:16 No, just that putting things on a scalar scale of "good", and judging things based on hearsay, is kinda silly. 22:56:53 Bike: Tell me what the main application of COBOL was, and then what the main application of Java is 22:57:51 Programs for large businesses? 22:57:58 Bike: surely you're not suggesting i should know something about a programming language before i hate on it 22:58:17 "programs for large businesses" is impossibly vague 22:58:22 yes, it is. 22:59:34 kmc: But once I know a language I can't hate it unless it actually is horrible 22:59:42 well then 23:00:34 i don't like this thing where all software is either awesome magic pony rainbows, or unusable garbage 23:00:40 in fact most software is solidly okay 23:00:51 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 23:01:06 Most software is buggy if you look close enough, but people learn to walk around the bugs 23:01:17 But it's ok because humans are buggy too 23:01:31 How are humans buggy? 23:01:51 kmc: also as a diehard snobol4 programmer that is exacty what i'm saying!!! 23:02:23 Bike: Have you ever seen an optical illusion? Or irrational decisions? 23:02:37 are those bugs? 23:02:46 also i will be very impressed if you have a good definition of "rational" for this 23:02:53 Well optical illusions can be considered features 23:02:54 kmc: no all software is in fact unusable rubbish 23:02:56 SORRY 23:03:02 But irrational decisions can lead to all sorts of problems 23:03:31 elliott: what about @ 23:03:43 Bike: Ones that benefit the person more than the other choice, and where the person has all the information needed to make the choice and the capability to process it adequately 23:03:44 FreeFull, how can you have a bug in something that wasn't even designed with a purpose 23:04:51 shachaf: not really software 23:05:07 FreeFull, "benefit" might not be the best approach. "Works towards the goal that the person has in mind" might be better 23:05:31 FreeFull: example of this?S 23:05:34 If someone wants to benefit someone else at their own expense, it's not irrational to choose the thing that will most accomplish that goal 23:05:50 Sgeo_: Assuming the person has a goal above "don't get hurt, stay alive, be comfortable" 23:06:02 also yeah, "benefit the person" isn't exactly in the human design doc. 23:06:37 Sgeo_: What if the benefit is feeling better 23:06:51 this discussion is stupid btw 23:06:54 or rather 23:07:02 it will rapidly approach maximum stupidity if allowed to continue 23:07:03 oh yeah well you're stupid 23:07:12 well nobody even knows what they're arguing about 23:07:18 as in 23:07:31 I don't see any evidence that anyone even agrees over what the disagreement is 23:08:37 mostly i think "humans are irrational" is something thrown around by people who've seen some intro game theory and don't work on psychology or sociology much, and it bugs me a bit, which is why i'm writing this silly message instead of, what else was i doing, reading probably 23:08:55 FreeFull, you could construct a scenario where someone's goal may not involve any benefit including feeling better. There's an example I read: You're a mother, aliens come, they state that either your child will be tortured but you will be made to believe they have a happy life, or your child will have a happy life and you will be made to be tortured 23:09:13 ok wow forget it yeah 23:09:16 Any personal "benefit" of choosing the second over the first is purely temporary 23:09:26 Erm, "you will be made to believe that they are being tortured" 23:09:33 Not "you will be made to be tortured" 23:10:25 Bike: remember when you said I was stupid instead of nodding your head at my wisdom 23:10:34 Sgeo_: thx 4 "the update" 23:10:42 stupid wisdom 23:10:57 By the way the funny thing is that I run an OotS RSS feed. 23:11:02 eep am I being called the center of the stupidity of this discussion? 23:11:08 shachaf, OOTS has an RSS feed 23:11:11 from giantitip 23:11:15 I know. 23:11:21 Not one that shows the pictures, though. 23:11:25 You have to click on the link. 23:11:26 Ah 23:11:35 I also run an SMBC RSS feed that shows the votey. 23:11:39 (I don't use either of them.) 23:18:22 Maybe I should just do what kmc did and write resume via LaTeX 23:18:26 Likely to be less broken 23:18:39 But I'd need to learn how to LaTeX 23:19:13 You're applying for grad school, right? You'd need to learn that anyway. 23:20:01 so it looks like Aaron Swartz was a big fan of Ray Dalio's 23:20:18 whoa, copumpkin talking in #esoteric 23:20:20 is it christmas 23:20:25 why not! 23:20:27 who's Ray Dalio? 23:20:32 Bike: very rich guy 23:20:38 Sgeo_: you can just copy that template (or one of a few others) and make content changes 23:20:42 Bike, I think I'm not going to work on grad school 23:20:47 you don't really need to understand LaTeX deeply 23:20:47 kmc, I lost the link 23:20:57 i used http://www.mcnabbs.org/andrew/linux/latexres/ 23:21:03 ty 23:21:04 but if you google "latex resume" you will find a few others 23:21:06 pick one that you like :) 23:22:14 this whole series seems kinda inspired by him: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rawnerve 23:22:23 and several of the articles cite him directly 23:23:12 kmc: resume describing your experience manufacturing latex 23:23:41 kmc: the twist is, it's printed on latex! 23:23:44 at Vandelay Industries? 23:24:26 -!- dessos has left. 23:26:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:27:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:27:28 Ok, I think I can get the hang of this 23:27:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:31:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:31:45 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 23:31:50 -!- FreeFull_ has left. 23:32:54 hi copumpkin 23:32:59 `welcome copumpkin 23:33:00 copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:34:25 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:37:00 kmc, ooh, there's a line for proficient and a line for familiar 23:37:13 Does this mean I get to list every language I've ever tried as something I'm "familiar" with? 23:37:31 shachaf: thanks! 23:37:56 no the police will arrest you 23:38:24 oh god yes do that 23:38:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:42:47 http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=freespire 23:42:52 "Last Update: Tuesday 14 August 2012 04:36 GMT" 23:43:10 ....why does it still need to be updated. Has it changed from being dead to still being dead? 23:43:46 -!- monqy has joined. 23:43:51 http://fiberandfumes.tumblr.com/post/38178202379/text-mode-this-letter-was-sent-to-a-russian 23:45:58 Proficient: Python, C#, LSL; Familiar: Javascript, Haskell, Clojure, Ruby, Java, Tcl, Smalltalk 23:46:04 I'm sure there's more to go in the familiar column 23:46:12 Factor seems a bit silly to add 23:47:26 no, do it 23:47:47 Factor, Racket (formerly PLT Scheme 23:47:49 ) 23:48:04 The Artist Formerly Known As Lisp 23:48:37 I don't know if I really count as proficient with C# :/ 23:48:49 it's a resume, the entire point is arrogance 23:51:17 Hmm, I should probably do the résumé thing. 23:51:32 shachaf: pfft 23:51:36 shachaf: don't do it! they'll give you a job! 23:51:36 why would you do that! 23:51:57 there's a big trade-off with resumes 23:52:16 whether to write résumé, and risk people thinking you're pretentious, or to write resume and risk people thinking you're uneducated 23:52:27 rêsumê 23:52:51 copumpkin: What do I write if I want people to think I'm crazy? 23:53:07 Curriculum mortis 23:53:13 rësumë 23:53:30 I don't like "resume" because I always read it as "resume" instead of "resume". 23:53:36 shachaf: anything promoting extreme instrumental rationality 23:53:42 I call it CV, no latin, no funny letters, nothing 23:53:55 olsner: they have slightly different connotations, in the US at least 23:54:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:55:10 hmm, what's the difference? 23:55:24 CVs are usually academic? 23:55:28 yeah, and more detailed 23:55:41 will often have a list of all papers, talks, P.C. memberships, etc. 23:57:16 I'm sure I forgot some languages that I could list 23:57:23 Not going to list Scala, I barely remember a thing 23:57:33 you forgot LSL 23:57:35 oh 23:57:38 never mind 23:58:07 15:46:12 Factor seems a bit silly to add 23:58:09 yet lsl isn't 23:58:22 Is LSL like LTL? 23:58:29 LTL is "pretty cool i hear" 23:58:37 yes but instead of being linear temporal logic it's linden scripting language 23:58:38 LSL could, in theory, land me a job. I think 23:58:44 coppro: sounds like it's a US vs british thing even, where the british "CV" seems to be what I'd call CV/résumé 23:58:47 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:59:03 coppro: *copumpkin 23:59:15 I guess I'm kind of familiar with PHP 23:59:17 :( 23:59:28 u know u want the php jobs 23:59:30 i love php 23:59:32 it is so easy 23:59:33 olsner: yeah, I think so 23:59:40 shachaf... 23:59:53 monqy: SORRY I WENT FOR A LONG TIME WITHOUT IT