00:01:27 yessss 00:01:45 i think being picky about programming languages is a bad place to use your being-picky-about-a-job points 00:01:48 except for PHP 00:02:08 I love the job so far, and don't hate scala :P 00:02:21 but yeah, we can all agree on PHP 00:02:35 although I wrote a fair bit of it in high school 00:03:11 I wrote some PHP once. 00:03:19 shachaf: HOW COULD YOU 00:03:31 copumpkin: Well I didn't want to make a liar out of you! 00:03:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:04:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 00:04:00 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:04:41 PHP: not even once 00:05:04 well, even the PHP developers agree that PHP is kind of terrible, so it works out right 00:05:30 i too have written some PHP :/ 00:05:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:05:55 Bike: well, doesn't the guy actually just hate programming? 00:06:00 and is quite open about it 00:06:06 yeah 00:06:11 PHP has its apologists though 00:06:28 luckily i have surgically removed my ability to directly acknowledge the existence of That Man or anything he's said 00:06:36 oh good 00:07:10 y'all hate PHP too much imo 00:07:11 i love it 00:07:13 it is so easy 00:07:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:07:53 shachafffffffffffffff 00:08:04 nooooooo 00:08:10 I need some popovers 00:08:13 and/or a steak 00:08:14 kmc: :'( 00:08:25 how do i stop doing it 00:08:28 it's just so... 00:08:36 trivial? 00:08:38 wait for it 00:08:39 facile? 00:08:41 Exactly! 00:08:49 (in italian) 00:08:58 "facile" is in english too... 00:09:04 I know, but it means something else 00:09:07 although the meanings are related 00:09:20 -!- sploknee has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:09:22 I thought you could (sort of obscurely) use it to mean the same in English though. 00:09:50 yeah, it still means easy, but it has a lot of baggage in that meaning :) 00:10:19 "(now rare) Amiable, flexible, easy to get along with. [from 16th c.]" cool am i "retro" now 00:10:35 "Easy, now especially in a disparaging sense; contemptibly easy. [from 15th c.] " even older! 00:10:40 Bike: yes, you are retro. don't you love being retro? 00:12:38 facile seems similar to genteel 00:13:52 btw, the H in PHP is pronounced uː 00:14:25 the files I'm working on at the moment are technically PHP files 00:14:51 but I'm treating them as HTML files that support server-side commments, together with not messing with the existing logic 00:15:18 I bet there are some weird edge cases in the PHP comment parser. 00:16:05 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:16:07 I wonder if you could write "comments" in deflate streams, then just save it as html.gz and get the comments stripped by the receiver 00:19:55 haha 00:21:40 comments seem like a remarkably stupid thing to put in a compression format though 00:23:13 Hum. Smalltalk might not have macros, but how often do macros actually need to parse code? And I bet that there is introspection for looking inside a block at runtime if needed 00:23:58 Although, there's still the issue of wanting to expand into creation of multiple methods, which is ... something that might not work well with IDEs 00:24:25 olsner: so does quines and yet they mostly support them by accident 00:24:46 i thought smalltalk was conceptually removed enough from source that macros wouldn't make much sense anyway. guess not 00:24:47 http://steike.com/code/useless/zip-file-quine/ 00:25:16 great for putting enterprise email virus scanners into an infinite loop 00:25:17 ah, but .zip supports comments 00:25:38 e.g. for putting an extracting executable at the beginning of the file 00:25:54 I should get one of those zips that expand to a trillion gigabytes of garbage and never accidentally open it anyway 00:25:58 imo the world would be better without drums 00:26:03 wrong 00:26:19 there are gzip/deflate quines too, of course 00:26:26 Bike: have you considered the possibility that you're the wrong one 00:26:37 Yes. It was a wrong possibility. 00:26:58 shachaf is wrong in re: drums 00:27:17 wow Bike and kmc are wrong?? 00:27:28 imo no 00:27:45 good point but imo yes 00:27:51 ∎ 00:28:58 dongs 00:30:03 shachaf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_memory ?? 00:30:22 olsner: drum memory can stay 00:30:30 but the other kind can beat it!! 00:31:34 no, you can't beat a drum without any drums 00:32:27 fwiw, drums can't beat drums at all due to no hands 00:34:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:41:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:48:34 @tell HackEgo `addquote is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 00:48:34 Consider it noted. 00:48:51 * oerjan wonders if lambdabot will mess up the formatting 00:49:20 quintopia: there /is/ a tag for that, I just forget what it is offhand 00:49:49 oerjan: Can you make HackEgo @messages? 00:49:52 `echo @messages 00:49:59 Er... Right. 00:50:11 @tell oerjan `addquote hi 00:50:11 Consider it noted. 00:50:26 answerjan! 00:50:56 shachaf: yes, although you need a trick to get around HackEgo's anti-botloop protection 00:50:56 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 00:51:01 @messages 00:51:01 shachaf said 50s ago: `addquote hi 00:51:13 ...that doesn't look promising. 00:51:21 HackEgoerjan 00:51:48 anti-bootlop 00:51:55 fungot: bootlop 00:51:56 kmc: it's so difficult to port to scheme is when there is define? 00:52:09 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 00:52:09 fungot: bøøtløp 00:52:10 kmc: it was a typo 00:52:14 fair enough 00:52:17 IRC RFC already has an anti-botloop protection, a.k.a. NOTICE. 00:52:45 yeah but mIRC breaks that 00:52:51 by going crazy upon channel notices 00:52:53 ion: which doesn't work because NOTICE's are so annoyingly looking that in-channel bots don't use them. 00:52:56 how can you possibly break notices 00:52:57 mIRC: the Internet Explorer of IRC clients?!? 00:53:01 kmc: definitely 00:53:08 Bike: by treating them as really super important 00:53:09 MySQL is the mIRC of databases 00:53:12 How do I NOTICE? 00:53:16 LIKE this? 00:53:17 oerjan: You forgot “in a small number of clients”. 00:53:25 I am a bot 00:53:31 shachaf: those are CTCP replies 00:53:37 an actual notice looks like this 00:53:37 hi 00:53:45 posting in this high quality thread 00:53:45 hi 00:53:47 try removing the control characters 00:53:55 i am a bot 00:54:06 EC{E{CE{{EC{E{{CE{{CE{ FRASH PRUGIN {E[C{E[CE[CE[CE[ 00:54:13 shachaf: bot is easy 00:54:16 actually looks pleasingly robotic on my end 00:54:27 OH no 00:54:29 This message has been triggered by shachaf’s notice, thereby violating the RFC. 00:54:34 [Notice] -Bike to #esoteric- hi 00:54:38 we're all, just, like, bots, man 00:54:40 that's how it looks in Konversation 00:54:49 ais523: What, no colours? 00:54:51 PING 0 00:54:54 :P 00:54:57 I'd prefer it as just "-Bike-", but I understand why it distinguishes between channel and server notices 00:54:59 best flood ever. 00:55:13 shachaf: notices have a customizable color, I use dark yellow 00:55:21 nobody expects the channel ctcpreply 00:55:32 ais523: notices look annoyingly prominent in irssi too. 00:55:33 it's environment diagrams day in zombie 6.001!!!! 00:55:54 [ctcp(#esoteric)] 00:55:56 with the boxes and dots and arrows and shit? 00:56:07 Ꙭ 00:56:08 yes 00:56:25 that reminds me, somebody asked in ##c if lexical scope was actually implemented 00:56:51 they just didn't believe int a; for(;;){int a; ...} would work right, it was weird 00:57:17 Does it really count as lexical scope in that context? 00:57:22 How would dynamic scope behave? 00:57:31 Bike: implemented by what? C isn't a compiler 00:57:42 i like compiler it's so easy 00:57:44 DAMN YOU SHACHAF 00:57:48 kmc....................... 00:57:55 i'm got the virus now 00:58:00 ais523: GCC, the Glasgow C Compiler. 00:58:15 Gołąbki C Compiler 00:58:45 ais523: they didn't even think it was in the standard 00:59:00 perhaps they're used to JS 00:59:04 Classic C Compiler Program 00:59:07 btw, does lexical scope work correctly in PHP? 00:59:21 ais523: i'm going to say "no" without considering all of the words in that question 00:59:35 i call it 00:59:37 lazy evaluation 01:00:11 kmc: the function worksInPHP is not strict in its argument? 01:00:35 incidentally the logs don't show notices. 01:00:57 (codu logs) 01:01:39 shachaf: C where int a = 4; void foo(void) { printf("%d\n",a); } foo(); makes sense sounds pretty exciting! 01:01:55 oerjan: what about the raw logs? 01:01:59 the tunes logs do. 01:02:05 ais523: not the raw logs either. 01:02:15 i wonder how zzo38's client displays notices 01:02:16 Bike: Since when does C support nested function definitions? 01:02:20 @eval C where int a = 4 01:02:31 @help eval 01:02:31 eval. Do nothing (perversely) 01:02:31 it /looked/ like valid Haskell 01:02:36 oh, hmm 01:02:45 presumably it may be in the all-channels-mushed-together file which everything else is extracted from 01:02:48 why have a no-op command called "eval"? 01:02:57 ^def eval ul ()! 01:02:58 Defined. 01:02:58 because lambdabot is a big practical joke 01:03:06 ^eval now I can do this in fungot too 01:03:16 shachaf: "whatever, man" 01:03:16 This place has Tunes logs too? 01:03:27 Bike: yes, they've existed way longer than the codu logs 01:03:29 clog is Tunes' logbot 01:03:34 hi clog 01:03:37 hi clog 01:03:44 /ctcp clog hi 01:03:45 there also used to be another logbot cmeme, but it hasn't been here for a while 01:04:08 haskell/12.12.25:21:19:51 games are so complex to make :( 01:04:09 was it actually affiliated with the "tunes project" or i don't even know 01:04:12 I guess games aren't easy. 01:04:43 Bike: the logbot is; I don't think the channel is 01:04:45 btw, why do lenses pack both the getter and setter together? ye yeah is it for composition or something? ah lenses make life easy 01:05:07 sudden clarity beaky 01:05:27 beaky would be a good name for a cuttlefish 01:05:47 ais523: can you just ask the tunes whoever to log your channel, then? 01:06:07 Bike: I don't think so; I guess they just thought the channel was interesting 01:06:18 http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/wp-content/blogs.dir/474/files/2012/04/i-7ed1055d2591673620f0d2017dcb3513-Beak.jpg beaky's true form? 01:06:19 also, there's a chance that worldbreaking programming ideas would happen here first 01:06:25 even if there's a lot of chaff to filter through 01:06:43 chaff and flares 01:07:02 Bike: you _can_ just ask glogbot, however. 01:07:08 haskell/12.12.22:02:18:09 what is the most powerful feature of haskell 01:07:08 haskell/12.12.22:02:18:12 that no other languages have? 01:07:08 haskell/12.12.22:02:18:29 lisps' power is macros. perl's power is regexes. C's power is pointers... 01:07:16 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ oh, it's actually almost an exclusive club 01:07:18 no other language has regexes 01:07:44 why don't they just make one language with all the features HMMMMMMMMM?? 01:07:53 idiohs 01:08:43 what is the difference between parallel and concurrent? so parallel programs are like a battery of guns or is that concurrent programs? ah so parallelism is like firing all the guns in a battleship 01:08:47 i want a pet cuttlefish but taking care of it is "not easy" 01:08:52 kmc: but they're like, right there in the syntax, man. 01:08:52 also, shachaf, these are like so totally way old. 01:08:52 http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/slate/13.01.15 01:09:05 Bike: they are also in the syntax in javascript 01:09:06 for some reason 01:09:55 could you even get an aquarium big enough? 01:10:11 * ais523 tries to remember what a cuttlefish is 01:10:21 yeah there are some small ones 01:10:35 ais523: it's like an octopus or a squid but weirder 01:10:36 ais523: the ones with active camo. 01:10:46 yeah they can change color and change how iridescent they are 01:10:58 They're also pretty smart. 01:11:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ujRgSRYE9A This is about the size I imagine cuttlefish as being, though. I don't think it would be very comfortable in a home tank. 01:12:03 yeah maybe 01:12:07 i have only seen baby cuttlefish in person 01:12:09 sooooo cute 01:12:47 Maybe there are smaller ones, I don't know. Maybe the seawaterness is more relevant. 01:13:03 this is what i read http://www.tonmo.com/cephcare/cuttlefishcare.php 01:13:14 saltwater animals are way harder to keep in captivity, right? 01:13:24 think so, yeah 01:13:56 'This little cuttlefish, originally from Indonesia, is fully grown at about 5 cm (2") mantle length' 01:14:04 so i guess they do vary quite a bit 01:14:19 Oh ok, so there's like an established basis for this 01:14:29 then they talk about another type that gets up to 45cm 01:14:45 damn, whole forums for taking care of cephalopods? I like this place 01:14:53 so monads are monoids with superpowers 01:15:01 'They eat a lot of food. An individual that is half grown will eat two 5cm (2") wide crabs per day and more on top of that. 12mm long babies can and will eat up to five 12mm (1/2") long shrimps each day.' 01:15:16 Damn. 01:15:34 you have to feed them live crustaceans 01:15:39 or at least it is better if you do 01:16:11 a friend of mine had a snake and when they couldn't feed it live mice, they would just microwave the dead mouse for a bit so it would 'look' live in IR 01:16:22 the snake was old and feeble and blind :/ 01:16:58 aw geez :( 01:17:40 'They can spit water out the top of their tank by using their siphon. Worth considering where you keep all your associated electrical equipment. ' 01:18:39 'If you keep several together you'll obviously need an even bigger tank. They will fight over food and occasionally spook each other; it is quite common to see bite marks and two cuttlefish normally end a minor dispute by spraying ink everywhere! (Note this can also include the wall behind your tank!!!) ' 01:18:59 haskell/12.12.22:01:09:30 All programming languages were born to solve a problem. C was invented to port the UNIX operating system. Perl was designed as an awk killer to efficiently process text. Javascript was designed to implement interactive webpages. What was Haskell born to do? 01:19:04 Enough beaky. 01:20:13 that one is... a fair question 01:20:14 to port it 01:20:32 I thought Haskell was born to make academics stop making up languages for two minutes? 01:20:32 Haskell was born to unify research into lazy functional programming, that was happening in a variety of languages 01:20:35 yeah 01:21:16 back later, it's boxes & arrows time 01:21:24 Of course in those terms Perl was designed to make scripting nicer for Wall and C was designed to build Spacewar 01:22:14 kmc: Boxes and arrows? 01:22:30 16:55 < kmc> it's environment diagrams day in zombie 6.001!!!! 01:22:31 Oh, Zombie 6.001. 01:22:56 Like http://www-mtl.mit.edu/~boning/ST96/rec16/more-env.html ? 01:23:02 i love environment diagrams 01:23:21 wow, that's quite a diagram. 01:24:11 imo 28 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one 01:25:10 @tell Gregor i think people may have forgot to tell you that HackEgo is down. 01:25:10 Consider it noted. 01:28:56 Gregor: hi 01:29:01 HackEgo: DOWN 01:30:01 Sgeo: But once you've built something in the normal environment, extracting it and putting it into another image is somewhere between magic and time travel in terms of possibility. <-- so you are saying feather is the solution to smalltalk's problems? 01:31:01 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:32:30 Oy vey, WHY is HackEgo going down. 01:32:31 Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:32:33 4rlz 01:32:40 I blame elliott. 01:33:18 i blame oerjan 01:33:50 but but i didn't think it would have such a big effect! 01:33:53 -!- HackEgo has joined. 01:34:23 -!- monqy has joined. 02:03:37 -!- FreeFull has quit. 02:05:27 @nixon 02:05:27 You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference. 02:08:11 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:09:27 There was a poem that said: "in 1492 jesus sailed the ocean blue" 02:09:34 I can't find it. What was it called? 02:09:52 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 02:10:01 `welcome WeThePeople 02:10:06 WeThePeople: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:10:06 HackEgo: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 02:10:10 i just rejoined 02:10:13 `echo @messages 02:10:14 @messages 02:10:18 Hrm. 02:10:23 oerjan: How do you do it? 02:10:26 echo 02:10:33 How do you doerjan? 02:13:06 `echo lambdabot: @messages 02:13:07 lambdabot: @messages 02:13:07 shubshub asked 9m 7d 16h 53m 4s ago: hi 02:13:07 nortti asked 9m 7d 10h 17m 45s ago: `date 02:13:07 oerjan said 1h 24m 33s ago: `addquote is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 02:13:16 `addquote is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 02:13:19 918) is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 02:13:25 oops 02:13:28 `revert 02:13:30 oh no 02:13:31 Done. 02:13:31 oerjan 02:13:35 `? quote 02:13:37 Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb. 02:13:37 `addquote is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 02:13:39 `? qdb 02:13:41 918) is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? quintopia: {{featured article}} 02:13:42 qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also qdbformat 02:13:45 `? qdbformat 02:13:47 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 02:14:03 shachaf: the double space got precisely over the line wrap, so it disappeared when i cut and pasted it 02:14:39 actually it's possible i never put it in... 02:14:53 hm no i did 02:15:31 * oerjan checks the logs 02:16:21 i love the qdb rules 02:16:23 they are so easy 02:16:46 elliott: logs confirm it: lambdabot @tell actually removes double spacing in what you send :P 02:17:15 @tell oerjan i love the qdb rules they are so easy 02:17:16 Consider it noted. 02:17:54 @messages 02:17:54 shachaf said 38s ago: i love the qdb rules they are so easy 02:18:03 lambdabot................................................. 02:18:12 @show hello there 02:18:12 "hello there" 02:18:18 i h8 u 02:19:28 @remember beaky i love monoids they are so easy 02:19:28 I will remember. 02:19:29 @quote beaky 02:19:29 beaky says: i love monoids they are so easy 02:19:34 @forget beaky i love monoids they are so easy 02:19:34 Done. 02:19:48 @quote shachaf 02:19:49 shachaf says: GADT = Gratuitously Abstract Data Type 02:19:52 Huh? 02:19:55 Did I even say that? 02:20:48 @quote elliott i said 02:20:48 No quotes match. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 02:20:54 "Furthermore I've always believed that Ubuntu was an NSA front from its very inception." 02:20:58 @quote elliott i.said 02:20:59 No quotes match. I am sorry. 02:21:04 @quote elliott.*i said 02:21:04 No quotes for this person. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 02:21:28 SOME SCUM HAS BEEN REMOVING QUOTES 02:21:42 @quote elli.*said 02:21:43 No quotes match. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. 02:21:45 oerjan: Or maybe lambdabot crashed. 02:21:52 Bike, oerjan: that's not how @quote works...... 02:22:05 i was only following examplejan. 02:22:07 If @quote gets two arguments, the first is always treated as the name of the quotee. 02:24:17 shachaf: INCONCEIVABLE 02:24:25 O KAY 02:24:41 @quote elliott i.didn't 02:24:41 No quotes match. My mind is going. I can feel it. 02:24:45 @quote elliott 02:24:46 elliott says: |\/|/-\|-|-|=|\||} is my preferred mappend operator 02:25:52 |/\||-|()/-\ |}\/|}|= 02:25:57 today's sheldon is highly relevant to all this http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/130115.html 02:26:52 i'm not sure what the intended point of that is. once again i am bad at jokes 02:27:24 imo i love jokes 02:27:27 i don't think it has a punchline 02:28:03 like is the thing on the left supposed to be humorously anal? the thing on the right humorously bohemian? i can't tell, i can't 02:28:23 Left? Right? 02:28:27