00:00:13 http://satwcomic.com/moby-is-a-dick who is the sparkly individual at the end there? 00:00:22 Do you want to know how dot files came around? 00:00:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:00:44 sure 00:01:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:01:17 The person who wrote ls got lazy and filtered out . and .. entries by checking if the first character of a filename was a . 00:01:19 GreyKnight: Iceland is sparkly. 00:01:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:01:51 FreeFull: believable. too believable. make it snopesworthy. 00:02:11 But I thought Iceland was all green and it was Greenland that was all ice :-I 00:02:42 green things can sparkle! 00:03:08 Iceland: like an emerald, in a way 00:03:31 ...wait are they stealing our "Emerald Isle" motif >:-O 00:03:36 * GreyKnight declares war 00:05:57 be careful, they have volcanoes 00:06:57 and Björk 00:06:57 Bike: https://plus.google.com/101960720994009339267/posts/R58WgWwN9jp 00:07:04 Here, from Rob Pike 00:07:28 http://satwcomic.com/size-matters Denmark and Norway are *bros*, but Sweden just has to go and be awkward 00:08:28 FreeFull: still boring. 00:10:09 I'm sorry if reality is boring to you :) 00:10:11 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:10:22 FreeFull: "[…] during the Version 2 rewrite, when the file system became hierarchical (it had a very different structure early on)." <-- this was interesting by itself 00:10:47 GreyKnight: MSDOS didn't have a hierarchical FS at the beginning either 00:11:10 back in the mists of time 00:12:06 i believe technically danish and norwegian both got Å from swedish after the countries had all separated, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85#Origin 00:15:10 Hierarchical FS support was added in MS-DOS 2 00:15:51 "NTFS allows files to contain more than one stream of bytes, each of which have an independent range of file positions starting at zero. Microsoft did this as a generalization of the original MacOS concept of a file having two forks, a data fork and a resource fork. I'd claim that it was a mistake on the Mac, and a bigger mistake for Microsoft to build it into NTFS." 00:16:12 does anyone use that? 00:16:22 on windows, i mean, i've heard of mac forks. 00:17:32 everyone knows windows cannot fork properly 00:18:25 NTFS has a lot of features that end up essencially unused 00:18:34 You can use the multiple stream thing to hide files 00:18:35 doesn't everything? 00:18:37 "dd is horrible on purpose. It's a joke about OS/360 JCL. But today it's an internationally standardized joke. I guess that says it all." <-- this page is a source of lols 00:18:50 weird NTFS features things reminds me of NTFS Link 00:19:04 FreeFull: sounds great for malware. 00:19:19 it was this little tool that let you have symbolic link support in windows, it was really easy and simple and intgrated into the explorer 00:19:27 I think you can really only access the files from command line if they're hidden that way 00:19:31 @g NTFS junction point 00:19:31 Maybe you meant: gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki . ? @ v 00:19:41 @google NTFS junction point 00:19:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point 00:19:43 Title: NTFS junction point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 00:19:57 NTFS allows hard links and symbolic links, and you can mount a device inside a directory 00:20:21 symbolic links are only for folders though, I think 00:20:33 the main thing I used it for is I could move a big folder to another drive, then add a symbolic link so that programs still thought it was there 00:20:39 so I could like, add a new hard drive, then symbolic-link program files 00:26:42 Under linux, hard links are to files only 00:27:15 FreeFull: not true; the kernel API can handle directory hardlinks just fine, as can the usermode programs like ln 00:27:19 however, most /filesystems/ can't 00:27:23 which is why you can't create them 00:28:26 ln will refuse to create them, to prevent loops 00:28:38 FreeFull: unless you're root and tell it not to care about that 00:28:51 ln --trust-me 00:28:58 True 00:29:28 ext4 won't permit it, wonder what filesystems will 00:30:33 ntfs might 00:32:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:35:22 Sgeo_: update 00:36:53 * oerjan imagines mount taking a regexp argument, and mounting the device at _all_ matching paths simultaneously 00:38:06 Why stop there? Generate all possible strings that could match the regexp, create the necessary paths, and mount it everywhere 00:39:35 um the point is the regexp is supposed to be allowed to give infinitely many strings. for those useful loops and stuff. 00:40:06 oh you sort of meant the same thing as me I think 00:40:11 or put differently... yes. 00:40:41 communication, taking place, etc 00:40:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:41:01 hackego, not in place, etc 00:41:29 -_- 00:41:45 * oerjan hopes Gregor is fine 00:42:28 -!- monqy has joined. 00:43:26 monqy: help Gregor 00:43:26 he is trapped and only you can rescue him! 00:43:34 ok 00:44:11 it's those darn forcefields, i knew they'd be nothing but trouble 00:46:10 I never put Gregor in a forcefield! 00:46:39 they said forcefields were trivial to escape, but they underestimated the gravity of the situation 00:47:06 * oerjan would do puns on magnetism instead if he could think of any 00:47:18 i put gregor in a field of gravitational force and a field of electromagnetic force! 00:47:45 * GreyKnight puts c00kiemon5ter in a forcefield, and three cookies outside ⌇⌇ :-3 ⌇⌇ o o o 00:47:52 well the second is illegal, we'll have to charge you for it 00:48:38 oerjan: some people think I use forcefields to attract the ladies, but it is just my animal magnetism 00:48:42 oerjan: the gradient of your joke potential field is radially aimed toward "bad" 00:51:21 quintopia: you just want a magnetic monopoly! 00:51:37 These puns are making my hair curl 00:52:10 we can really div 'em out 00:52:43 * oerjan isn't sure that was a pun 00:52:46 quintopia: puns are an integral part of this channel :< 00:53:19 they get a bit derivative after a while 00:54:16 I'd complain, but I don't want to make waves… 00:56:46 waves are ok, just don't go cosin trouble 00:57:15 this has kind of gone off on a tangent 00:59:00 Well, I can see the parallels 00:59:12 i think you are just projecting 00:59:32 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 01:05:20 -!- elliott has joined. 01:06:29 Fiora, what the fuck did I just watch? 01:07:32 canon 01:07:38 Sgeo_: I really don't know 01:08:07 * oerjan doesn 01:08:10 't know either 01:08:38 so is every rails app in the world getting hacked right now or what happened with that 01:09:56 it's apparently "trickster mode is canon now"? 01:10:40 what? 01:10:53 kmc: maybe you could make a startup dedicated to cracking startups. 01:11:05 i'm so confused 01:12:02 maybe i could make a startup dedicated to smoking crack 01:12:17 so, a startup 01:12:35 It's like TACOCOPTER for CRACK COCAINE! 01:12:42 yes 01:12:43 actually 01:12:48 kmc: Well maybe all the news sites are on Rails and so they can't tell us about it :-I 01:12:49 given how cheap small toy drones are getting 01:12:53 kmc: oh sorry I meant in response to Sgeo_ 01:12:56 maybe we should use them to deliver drugs 01:13:01 Fiora: oh ok i thought so maybe 01:13:11 but it kind of made sense with what i said 01:13:14 but not enough sense >_< 01:13:49 unfortunately i think small toy drones don't have much cargo lifting capacity 01:14:01 kmc: "An attacker can execute any ruby code he wants including system("unix command"). This effects any rails version for the last 6 years." 01:14:05 I think that's it 01:16:15 @nixon on wikipedia 01:16:15 The second point is that coming out--coming back and saying that black Americans aren't as good as black Africans--most of them , basically, are just out of the trees. Now, let's face it, they are. 01:16:39 http://www.lawfareblog.com/2012/09/operation-stux2bu-layered-offense-and-defense-and-drone-cyberattacks/ in which a defense policy expert, a 14 year old kid, and an 11 year old kid win a drones duel using cyberwarfare 01:18:04 Fiora: O_@ 01:18:12 yeah fun times 01:28:12 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz). 02:09:41 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:12:47 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:53:00 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:01:23 first zombie 6.001 lecture was today 03:01:50 i was trying to go through some simple fibonacci-type examples in recitation and my students were asking about how you implement variadic functions and macros and stuff 03:01:53 i guess that's a good sign? 03:03:11 it means no one ate their brains yet 03:07:12 6.001 is undead now? 03:09:09 it has been undead for a while 03:09:18 students teach it over the january Independent Activities Period 03:09:25 the original course is compressed into 1 month 03:09:49 i thought it was just, you know, dead 03:11:16 http://www.insinuator.net/2013/01/rails-yaml/ has more about that rails vulnerability 03:16:07 * Sgeo_ is not in fact competent enough to just be able to click the edit button on GitHub, change the code, and send a pull request 03:16:19 I renamed an identifier but forgot to rename it everywhere 03:16:29 (Or, well, just didn't see that location) 03:22:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit). 03:33:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:42:12 If I do a pattern match like [a] in haskell, what is the value of a? 03:42:52 it will match any list that contains exactly one element 03:42:56 a will be bound to that element 03:43:20 > let [a] = [1,2,3] in a 03:43:22 *Exception: :3:5-17: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern [a] 03:43:29 > let [a] = [5] in a 03:43:30 5 03:43:52 So it only matches if there is a single element 03:44:02 yes 03:44:27 > let a:b = [1,2,3] in (a,b) 03:44:28 it is sugar for (a : []) 03:44:28 (1,[2,3]) 03:44:42 the two primitive patterns for lists are [] and (x : xs) 03:44:49 matching empty and non-empty lists respectively 03:45:05 a pattern like [a,2,b] is sugar for (a : (2 : (b : []))) 03:45:53 lists have special syntax but otherwise they act like a normal algebraic data type, data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a) 04:00:40 and that's where babies come from 04:01:13 > repeat "babies" 04:01:15 ["babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","babies","b... 04:08:36 The Racketeers are... scared of hidden mutation? 04:08:47 Depending on what you mean by Scheme-y, yes. Guile has GOOPs, for example. The generics library was designed not to allow such backpatching. 04:08:47 Because it's basically some hidden mutation. 04:12:26 hi 04:13:25 whats this about 04:14:02 Taking a value from library A and a generic interface from library B, and writing a library C that makes the value implement the interface without the consent of the value 04:14:43 Hidden mutation isn't necessarily evil 04:14:44 Any Haskell implementation is going to do hidden mutation to turn lazy thunks into values when that thunk is forced 04:14:44 That's unobservable mutation. 04:14:44 It's an optimization over call-by-name basically. 04:14:44 You can definitely observe a mutation of a method table of some object. 04:14:46 Hrm 04:15:06 what are you hrming about 04:15:41 presumably why he's pasting #clojure(?) #racket(?) logs into #esoteric 04:15:48 #racket 04:16:44 He's right that there's a difference, I'm not sure though if hidden but observable mutation is to be avoided 04:16:46 by "making it implement an interface without its consent" do you mean mutating it to patch in an implementation 04:17:05 Pretty much 04:17:05 idk how this system works 04:17:10 but 04:17:17 sounds like you're doing something icky and bad 04:17:31 It's how some OO systems for Scheme work 04:17:51 wait, since when do you need to mutate an object to define methods on its class 04:18:55 Need to mutate the class. Or, well, it would end up responding differently to the question "do you respond to this?" at point t1 and point t2 04:19:33 what does "hidden but observable" mean 04:19:54 "you can see it without looking at implementation details but it's not obvious if you're stupid"? 04:20:07 Sgeo_: well, if it's message-passing based, i guess. 04:20:50 Presumably "hidden" as in "It's not immediately obvious that you're mutating something", I guess? 04:21:21 why do you want to do this thing anyway 04:24:09 Because it's quite easy to imagine two libraries developed in isolation that would fit well together 04:25:24 what about.............. generics 04:25:24 and the only way to make them fit well together is to muck up their internals 04:25:44 what about defining ..interfaces? 04:25:53 Bike, the generics system new in Racket is like this 04:25:55 not enough ellipses try again 04:27:38 And the Interface system in the OO is also like this, the class needs to consent 04:28:04 oh, christ,i thought you were taking two minutes to type up an explanation of The Generics System New In Racket 04:28:23 oops, sorry 04:28:24 anyway i meant like c++ sort of generics 04:28:34 * Sgeo_ doesn't know what those are like 04:28:44 Sgeo_: didn't that other guy said the generics system was designed not to allow the stupid stuff you're doing 04:28:50 well there aren't class objects so you certainly can't muck with them! 04:29:22 Sgeo_: so what do you mean by it "is like this"???? 04:29:36 is like mutating weirdness 04:29:41 Is like the whole "thing implementing a generic needs to declare it" 04:29:49 though i get the feeling we're not getting a balanced description? question marks here 04:30:04 i get the feeling we're not getting a description at all 04:30:09 yeah that also 04:31:17 Sorry, I'm not entirely certain of every mechanism of the generics stuff and the OO and interface stuff 04:33:36 you seem to know enough about it to make wild statements about how it works / what use is telling us about it if you don't understand it well enough to clue us in on what the hell you're talking about 04:33:40 "pick one" 04:34:03 * oerjan is reminded of the Expression Problem 04:34:42 basically it's about defining a contract between different classes or even complete systems. all parts agree on that contract to exchange data.. that's it 04:34:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:34:54 isn't it 04:35:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem 04:37:43 * Sgeo_ was vaguely under the impression that that didn't apply to dynamically typed languages 04:37:57 says "static type safety" right there yo 04:38:16 so if everything works out fine a programmer just needs to care to satisfy the contract defined in the interface.. no need to care about how alien libs or classes work internally.. 04:38:29 .. 04:39:36 I googled for PLT Scheme expression problem 04:39:43 Something on the mailing list mentioned mixins 04:40:14 you should google for PLT scheme expression solution 04:43:09 -!- guestbot has joined. 04:47:35 Bike: i know but doing it without mutation seems to make it a problem for single-dispatch dynamic OO as well... 04:47:57 I always get implementation paralysis when I look at Scheme. Chicken Scheme or Racket, how can I decide? 04:48:06 (Yes, I know Racket doesn't really fit any Scheme standard) 04:48:41 do you feel the same way when you look at haskell 04:48:52 ghc or hugs????? 04:48:52 oerjan: i'm not sure how the problem even makes sense with mutation, i mean, it explicitly says "new cases" &c 04:48:58 hugs 4lyfe 04:48:59 or uhc or jhc have you thought about that 04:49:05 monqy: not any more since hugs died :( 04:49:13 hugs 4deth 04:49:19 oerjan: thats part of the joke :] 04:49:59 The Haskell community is pretty centered around GHC. The Scheme community is very much not centered around any one implementation 04:53:05 ok ok how about C 04:53:17 or or or or or or or or or or or javascript 04:53:34 javascript is different, instead of choosing an implementation you just fail to write for all them. 04:53:40 that's the joke :((((( 04:53:49 ok i'll try a new joke 04:53:59 Are those chins, or... 04:54:53 cross platform javascript is not that bad 04:55:47 well it is very easy if you really just mean "javascript" 04:55:47 server side javascript solutions => no need to write for multiple implementations??? 04:55:58 but if you also mean browser APIs, DOM, etc. then it is still not too bad 04:57:28 stop it kmc.. the guys try to agree on the least common denominator ..c and javascript is bad :P 04:58:03 who said anything was bad? i'm just hear to fuck up jokes. 04:58:16 you're just hear to fuck up spelling 04:58:23 ooh i thought of a good one Sgeo_: do you get the implementation paralysis when you try to write your Assembly's 05:00:05 http://www.reddit.com/r/speling hth 05:02:21 more on topic, brainfuck and befunge might have implementation paralysis. so does malbolge, although for a completely different reason. 05:02:29 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 05:02:47 Well, there's the fact that Scheme libraries tend to be highly unportable 05:02:57 Since there aren't many for pure R5RS 05:03:16 There's a bunch of stuff for Chicken Scheme, a bunch of separate stuff for Racket, etc 05:04:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:06:52 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 05:06:56 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:06:58 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:07:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:12:27 that sucks 05:13:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:28:18 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:55:36 -!- guestbot_ has joined. 05:56:56 eodermdrome has implementation paralysis 05:57:58 -!- guestbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:59:02 -!- guestbot has joined. 05:59:18 !bfjoust stupidrush (+++++>------>++++++>)*3++>([(+)*11[-][+...]]->)*19[[-]] 05:59:21 ​Score for guestbot_stupidrush: 34.6 06:00:14 huh, not bad 06:01:16 hi guestbot 06:01:35 ais523: it used your advice of making six decoys 06:02:33 -!- guestbot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:03:06 quintopia: that's more than 6 decoys 06:03:10 isn't it eight? 06:03:27 oh 06:03:32 thats a *3 06:03:34 whoops 06:04:04 !bfjoust stupidrush (+++++>------>++++++>)*3++>([(+)*11[-][+...]][++.+]->)*19[[-]] 06:04:07 ​Score for quintopia_stupidrush: 31.8 06:04:11 haha 06:04:20 I think I want to forsake set theories. I'm going to do all my mathematics in second-order Peano arithmetic with Henkin semantics. 06:04:26 !bfjoust stupidrush < 06:04:28 ​Score for quintopia_stupidrush: 0.0 06:04:31 The only things that exist are the natural numbers, and certain sets of natural numbers. 06:06:10 You know what, let's call them "classes" instead of "sets". "Set" will mean a finite collection of natural numbers. If a collection is definable but infinite, it's a class. 06:06:12 or 9 rather 06:08:02 In fact, "set" is really just a synonym of "natural number". A natural number n is an element of a natural number S if and only if S divided by 2^n, rounded down, is odd. 06:08:20 aristotlean logic is so old-hat, you can say classes are whatever without meaning classes exist! 06:12:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:14:16 Rational numbers are number-level. Real numbers are class-level. As for sets of real numbers, TANST. 06:14:57 So how do you do calculus? Easy: toss out all the non-continuous functions. A continuous function of real numbers can be represented as a set of natural numbers. 06:16:24 Just represent it as a function Q -> R, which you can, in turn, represent as the set of all pairs (x, y) of rational numbers such that y < f(x). 06:51:48 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:52:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:56:41 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:30:03 -!- guestbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:35:52 -!- azaq23 has joined. 07:36:04 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit). 07:38:58 The weird. This (desktop) computer has some kind of a built-in speaker inside. 07:39:42 its friend..... 07:40:55 I'm not sure you understand. There is SOUND coming OUT OF IT. 07:41:43 its friend............ 07:42:25 does the sound sound like beeps 07:42:31 i disable pc speaker because gosh i hate it 07:42:40 It does not sound like beeps. 07:42:43 It sounds like sound. 07:42:48 I'm as confused as I was back when I got my SparcStation, ran mpg123 on it, and SOUND came OUT OF IT. (There's a speaker in that thing too.) 07:42:49 does it sound like whirring 07:42:56 disable fan, disable spinny discs 07:43:53 Well, I mean, it did stop when I closed the U-tube link. But the sound shouldn't have come out in the first place, because it's not got anything plugged in its sound holes. 07:44:00 (That sounds a bit dirty.) 07:44:47 pretty sure it's fashion-illegal for a desk box to have onboard sound 07:44:49 in bad taste 07:46:52 It's a Fujitsu machine. 07:46:57 Fujitsu something something something. 07:47:13 Fujitsu CELSIUS W520 POWER. 07:49:37 fizzie: I recently accidentally discovered that nvidia video cards come with sound cards that work over HDMI. 07:49:37 Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 07:49:57 So if you plug it into an audio-capable monitor or TV, voila, sound. 07:50:08 Glad I didn't choose to watch porn as my first test of the video card. 07:50:24 Why is HackEgo crashing so much :( 07:51:13 -!- HackEgo has joined. 07:51:59 I think pretty much anything with a HDMI connector these days has a "sound card" (FSVO) in it. The onboard graphics of my home desktop do too. 07:52:13 `ls 07:52:39 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ quotese \ robocop \ run \ share \ 07:52:50 k.. so nothing got deleted 07:52:54 good 07:53:31 Some of that stuff perhaps ought to have gotten deleted, though. 07:55:02 `rm robocop 07:55:05 No output. 08:13:07 hm..high resolution repdroduction documentation 08:13:46 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:22:09 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:22:23 Hi HackEgo!!!!!! 08:24:10 `botsnack 08:24:11 ​:-D 08:25:34 `snackbot 08:25:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: snackbot: not found 08:25:37 * GreyKnight wonders if Sgeo_'s talk of "the Racketeers" means he is migrating languages again 08:26:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:30:35 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:30:55 `quote 08:30:56 383) Phantom_Hoover: nope, I removed . from the current directory 08:31:13 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:31:22 We were supposed to add some quotes? Better check the logs I guess 08:31:42 Alternatively I could eat breakfast 08:31:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:32:28 Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude! 08:33:21 Gregor: `gregorsnack 08:33:57 `run rm -rf * 08:34:24 No output. 08:34:31 onoz 08:34:32 `ls 08:34:39 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ 08:34:48 looks like it MYSTERIOUSLY didn't work 08:36:05 :o 08:36:53 * GreyKnight tidies up a bit 08:37:03 `ls 08:37:04 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 08:37:31 `ls factor 08:37:33 factor.image 08:37:40 is this sgeo's doing 08:37:56 "probably" 08:39:51 `run echo $PATH 08:39:52 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 08:42:34 `welcome HackEgo 08:42:35 HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:42:43 yay :> 08:42:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:45:25 `? GreyKnight 08:45:27 GreyKnight? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 08:45:35 The Factor installation ran into file size limits or something, didn't it? 08:45:36 sadface 08:45:47 fizzie: I think so 08:46:06 factor.image is pretty large at any rate 08:46:28 (Basically a dump of the entire system state) 08:48:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:52:09 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 08:52:11 ​¯\(°_o)/¯? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 08:52:25 Almost perfect 08:56:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:59:07 `? Haskell 08:59:08 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 09:00:02 trufax 09:01:44 `run echo "AntiPattern: Intellectual Violence occurs when someone who understands a theory, technology, or buzzword uses this knowledge to intimidate others in a meeting situation. This may happen inadvertently due to the normal reticence of technical people to expose their ignorance." > wisdom/IntellecutalViolence 09:01:47 No output. 09:02:23 `run mv wisdom/IntellecutalViolence wisdom/IntellectualViolence 09:02:27 No output. 09:02:30 Example: 09:02:41 `? monad 09:02:42 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 09:07:20 `rm wisdom/IntellectualViolence 09:07:23 No output. 09:07:38 I draw the line at letting hagb4rd add wisdom entries. 09:09:45 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:11:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 09:12:28 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 09:13:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:15:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:15:16 `ls bin/No 09:15:17 bin/No 09:15:18 Good, still there. 09:16:16 `cat bin/No 09:16:17 ​#!/bin/sh 09:16:25 `No output. 09:16:27 No output. 09:16:47 (I wondered about it a while ago until someone kindly explained it to me.) 09:17:08 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:29:18 `run echo "DisagreeByDeleting is when a person disagrees with something and deletes it rather than posting an alternative idea alongside the item. See Also: IntellectualViolence" > wisdom/DisagreeByDeleting 09:29:21 No output. 09:30:12 `run rm wisdom/DisagreeByDeleting # I don't agree 09:30:15 No output. 09:30:37 i would have removed it anyway 09:32:56 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: so long). 09:35:01 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:41:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:42:47 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 09:42:47 -!- asiekierka has quit (*.net *.split). 09:42:48 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:42:48 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 09:42:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:45:14 -!- asiekierka_ has joined. 09:51:09 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 09:56:33 -!- FreeFull has quit. 10:00:03 http://xkcd.com/1158/ 10:13:59 the bowling ball analogy is so terrible 10:16:19 it's basically the perfect way to teach someone some of the words used in general relativity whilst completely misleading them on what it's actually about 10:30:45 http://xkcd.com/895/ 10:31:28 http://eddiecurrent.blogspot.com/2012/03/gravity-is-not-rubber-sheet.html 10:31:54 I think it might be better just to say "yeah this is complicated and hard to understand" until you can properly explain what it means for space to be curved? 10:41:25 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Excess Flood). 10:46:13 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:58:16 @quote analogy 10:58:16 lilac says: * lilac looks forward to Cale explaining category theory by analogy to Call of Duty 10:58:24 @quote analogies 10:58:24 mmorrow says: a functor is like an analogy between two analogies 11:37:33 `run ls -l canary 11:37:35 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 9 08:34 canary 12:38:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:42:30 `run rm canary 12:42:32 No output. 12:42:41 `run ls -l canary 12:42:44 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Jan 9 12:42 canary 12:43:55 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:44:43 `run cat < canary 12:44:44 No output. 12:44:54 (The "<" is to evoke the action of eating.) 12:46:25 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:50:59 `run echo tweet > canary 12:51:03 No output. 12:51:06 `run cat canary 12:51:07 tweet 12:52:09 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:53:09 you don't need to `run unless you have more than 1 argument 12:53:32 `cat canary 12:53:33 tweet 12:54:09 But cats often run. 12:54:56 `words --cat 10 12:55:00 amameneïssol arrejareu intèriquina eixonant execres esbiadesen cats encipalegues acaderésseu pacalfarbono 12:55:00 hm..right 12:55:50 Those must be some foreign cats that speak like that. 12:55:56 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 12:58:29 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 13:03:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:03:54 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:14:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:22:54 `url bin/words 13:22:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/words 13:23:26 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 13:23:45 fizzie: one of the words was "cats" interestingly 13:25:08 Oh dear God I think I got #RubyOnRails talking philosophy 13:28:10 -!- guestbot has joined. 13:31:11 Sgeo_: what have you done D: 13:33:10 speak the truth 13:33:18 (but ride a fast horse) 13:33:35 I'm trying to argue that there is such a thing as absolute reality 13:33:42 And they're talking about the theory of relativity 13:33:57 so *everybody's* off-topic, got it :-) 13:35:54 tell them to fix their bugs instead ;-) 13:42:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:58:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 13:59:22 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:01:25 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:11:56 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 14:18:27 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:28:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:29:17 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:29:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:30:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:43:50 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 14:44:55 `words --help 14:44:57 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:45:09 -!- sivoais has joined. 14:45:34 `words -l 14:45:36 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 14:46:28 (It's the --catalan.) 14:46:34 (The cat language.) 14:48:47 I assumed that was the case 14:49:00 I wonder why that doesn't need to be `run though 14:50:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:59:59 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:03:02 -!- carado has joined. 15:10:05 `which words 15:10:07 ​/hackenv/bin/words 15:10:11 `file /hackenv/bin/words 15:10:13 ​/hackenv/bin/words: a /usr/bin/perl script text executable 15:10:25 I guess perl is doing some magic to make it work 15:10:33 what magic 15:10:37 `run cat $(which words) | paste 15:10:40 or 15:10:41 shrug 15:10:41 what's "it" 15:10:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17694 15:10:49 i don't see any abnormal behaviour 15:10:51 `words --cat 10 15:10:53 devellació descoprot compar persondules rucarem estanca pallí rusuc arroqui mullotà 15:11:11 it can identify --cat and 10 as separate arguments without a run 15:11:24 oh, right, that 15:11:27 that's part of the program itself IIRC 15:11:40 that's what I said :v 15:11:54 s/perl/the perl code/ 15:12:46 @ARGV = split /\s+/, $ARGV[0] if @ARGV == 1; # this looks like it 15:12:46 Unknown command, try @list 15:12:51 shush dear 15:15:01 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 15:16:09 Yes, it has a manual splitting in case of a single argument. 15:16:25 Oh, I suppose that was already well-enough established. 15:16:31 Well uh your mom. 15:16:48 `run words --finnish 10 # it does need run when you want to make pithy comments like this one 15:16:51 kässäännekstia sykkiämme haljaamuvuutta erästämilta ruhtaasiatyypilvo huikeämpänäsi kirichlettamme jylitsemiin syventämmästänne piamme 15:16:51 but what does it do if you call it without run ????? 15:17:09 `run words '--finnish 10' # oh no IT'S ALL WRONG 15:17:11 luopeutuvana puhdettamiasi vällensa näköisempi lanillanne aihtyessamme muodeerinostetykypsyklisi arkimaan kaansa istamme 15:17:23 But I wanted the "finnish 10" wordset. 15:17:35 hm you managed to say the one line that would make mine less witty 15:17:52 * GreyKnight assumes the second list isn't Finnish 15:17:54 oh 15:17:55 right 15:18:04 my parser is broken 15:43:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:48:08 but what does it do if you call it without run ????? <-- afaik it passes the whole string as a single argument (as if passed in quotation marks).. so actually the # is not evaluated as a comment 15:48:41 correct me if i am wrong please 15:54:19 `source 15:54:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found 15:55:17 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib 15:55:18 fetch \ limits \ revert \ sandbox 15:55:30 `ls /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds 15:55:31 lib 15:55:49 hagb4rd: I had typed that before fizzie's preceding line (I was making a joke) 15:56:03 k 16:03:04 :k fix 16:03:05 Not in scope: type variable `fix' 16:03:13 hmph 16:03:27 :k (:t fix) 16:03:28 parse error on input `:' 16:03:31 \o/ 16:04:28 * GreyKnight traps lambdabot in a forcefield ⌇⌇ λ ⌇⌇ 16:05:18 :t fix 16:05:19 (a -> a) -> a 16:05:25 :k (a -> a) -> a 16:05:26 Not in scope: type variable `a' 16:05:26 Not in scope: type variable `a' 16:05:26 Not in scope: type variable `a' 16:05:38 lambdabot!!! 16:05:48 I imagine it would just be * 16:05:58 * GreyKnight sighs theatrically 16:05:58 :k (Int -> Int) -> Int 16:06:00 * 16:06:15 Kinds are more for type constructors 16:06:17 :k Monad 16:06:18 (* -> *) -> Constraint 16:06:26 Constraint? 16:06:35 Well that escalated quickly 16:08:04 I didn't even know :k could hold things other than * ( ) -> and er whatever the other ones are... # and % I think? 16:09:12 # and ? and ?? 16:09:14 also (#) 16:09:17 but they got renamed recently 16:09:49 Sgeo_: constraints are things that can appear left of => 16:09:50 Did you hear about our great new type? 16:10:03 newtype Bizarre p a b s t = Bizarre { unBizarre :: p t s -> p b a } 16:10:19 newtype BlueRibbon p a b s t 16:10:29 shachaf: so what's it for 16:10:37 Are there any uses for kinds like (* -> *) -> (* -> *) -> * -> * 16:10:46 probably 16:10:48 what kind of question is that 16:10:49 Are type constructors of that kind writable? 16:10:53 yes 16:11:05 * Sgeo_ 's mind twists a little bit 16:11:06 data Foo a b x = Foo (a x) (b x) 16:11:30 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:11:48 Sgeo_: that Constraint stuff was added in recent GHC; now typeclass constraints are type-like things and can be manipulated with the other type machinery 16:12:15 so you can have things that are polymorphic over various constraints, type families that produce constraints, etc 16:12:23 it's basically off the chain 16:12:29 kmc: Making opposite lenses. 16:12:51 A profunctor lens is representable as either (p a b -> p s t) or as (q t s -> q b a) 16:14:29 This type, along with some instances, lets you turn any lens around and use it in the opposite way. 16:16:46 you can't quite say "the kind of (a -> a) -> a is *" because you need to know that a has kind * 16:17:50 But (->)'s kind is * -> * -> * 16:17:53 kmc: It has to be. 16:18:00 Except for the unboxed stuff, I guess. 16:18:02 Admittedly there's some sort of subkinding thing going on here? 16:18:04 But (->) always ends up with *. 16:18:06 if (a -> a) -> a has a kind at all, its kind is * 16:18:27 * elliott is comfortable saying the type of ():xs is [()] 16:18:28 OK, sure. 16:18:35 shrug 16:18:39 " it's basically off the chain" <-- you spelt "rocker" incorrectly there hth 16:19:03 shachaf: you're making a concave lens? :-3 16:19:15 elliott: How's that name? 16:19:20 Concave and convex lenses? 16:19:25 shachaf: How about no? 16:19:47 sadface 16:20:53 elliott: How do you make it work with the f, anyway? 16:21:05 elliott: I bet answering my question about representability would help! 16:25:28 "...exfiltrating data from the phone by toggling a GPIO pin on the embedded CPU at radio frequencies." 16:25:31 :O 16:25:56 Sounds interesting. URL? 16:26:05 http://ossmann.blogspot.com/2013/01/funtenna.html 16:26:10 Thankes. 16:26:21 this was for the worm that takes over all cisco phones in an organization and uses them to spy on you 16:28:22 Batman eat your heart out 16:28:32 I like how they call it a "funtenna" 16:30:51 light-hearted 16:33:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:39:27 -!- Bike has joined. 16:56:27 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: -->). 17:10:34 Was there actually a flaw I missing in the stuff I said yesterday? 17:22:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:43:55 I don't like people who try to sell me things I don't want, when I try to get some simple thing done w.r.t. their company. :/ 17:47:05 fizzie: Well, if you just stopped not wanting the things, that would solve everything, wouldn't it? 17:47:12 How important is pattern matching to the actor model? 17:47:41 Because in rudybot, I saw thread level mailboxes be used but didn't see a way to conform that the message was sent by who the thread was expecting it to be sent by 17:47:53 So I made a patch to have it send a new async channel instead 18:14:33 -!- Vorpal has joined. 18:40:17 Ok, so which of these people do I call to see if there's any way to speak to an advisor 18:40:33 "Chairperson [of CS program I guess]" 18:40:39 "Graduate Program Director for M.S. and Ph.D. Programs in Computer Science " 18:40:45 "Graduate Program Administrator for M.S. and Ph.D. Programs in Computer Science " 18:50:54 probably the director 18:54:38 -!- david_werecat has joined. 18:56:05 Thank you, I'll try it 19:01:49 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:05:13 elliott: ping 19:05:38 !bfjoust behemoth >->++>>>(+)*38>(+)*4<<(-)*24<(+)*12<(-)*8<(+)*5<++>(+)*32>(-)*24>(+)*12>(-)*8>(+)*5<<<<(+)*16>(-)*22>(+)*20>(-)*8>(+)*0>>>>>((-[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[--------[-[-[-[-[(-)*38[+]>]+>{}]]]]]]]]]]]]+++>)%21)*21 19:05:44 ​Score for david_werecat_behemoth: 52.1 19:05:52 david_werecat, haven't seen you in a while! 19:05:57 How're you doing? 19:06:09 Things have been going well. 19:06:14 Been busy 19:06:50 So, what's new in #esoteric? 19:07:23 Fueue is implemented in three languages 19:07:51 Phantom_Hoover has a Tumblr 19:08:01 Which he uses to complain about brainfuck derivatives 19:08:34 Speaking of brainfuck derivitaves... 19:08:36 !bfjoust golf ++(>)*9([+++[-]>]>)*21 19:08:44 ​Score for david_werecat_golf: 30.8 19:08:50 it has so few posts! we should clearly get him to pad it out with some homestuck. 19:08:52 Phantom_Hoover, does BF Joust count? 19:09:04 yes 19:09:07 it makes me so angry 19:09:16 if only i had a means of expressing my rage 19:09:31 Fiora, homestuck-based brainfuck derivatives? 19:09:33 Fiora, I hear he posts loads of Homestuck on a sideblog, pretending to be me 19:09:52 homefuck is probably already the name of a few dozen pornos, though 19:10:09 http://homefuck.tumblr.com 19:10:12 Who dares investigate 19:10:21 Moved to MuelinRouge 19:10:37 Aw man, that's lame 19:10:43 http://homesuck.tumblr.com 19:10:44 Who dares investigate 19:10:51 nope 19:11:35 poodle aerobics 19:11:51 which is weird, because the fullpage flash made me expect meatspin 19:12:00 That's the problem with Tumblr 19:12:11 All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 19:12:35 `addquote That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 19:12:45 902) That's the problem with Tumblr All the porn titles are taken by non-porn people 19:12:49 Hey, is HackEgo back? 19:13:20 HackEgo AND david_werecat have returned: we need itidus20's opinion on this 19:14:07 on the topic of porn 19:14:14 i'm fairly sure farscape counts as it now 19:14:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:17:08 `run echo "high resolution documentation of reproduction" > wisdom/porn 19:17:42 `run rm wisdom/porn 19:17:44 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/porn': No such file or directory 19:17:50 haha 19:18:02 so did someone block hagb4rd from it or what 19:18:09 he used a leading space. 19:18:11 He had a space 19:18:13 `? hagb4rd 19:18:14 yes your ego 19:18:15 hagb4rd? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:18:21 dammit 19:18:31 -!- monqy has joined. 19:18:34 `learn hagb4rd is one spacey fellow. Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. 19:18:38 I knew that. 19:18:47 `? Taneb 19:18:49 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. 19:18:57 `? Ngevd 19:19:01 ​aj$_IKФbm4yj \ 4ܓ+J63`x}:N2`,TߞrU%K0sy$KO' \ vA&}L`P p.)T)Wowz2oSn^7E.Ӯ owlU-?twXKI\KɼCoU"~T.N#e(S+a.zu7>.?uȊO=`O!%_T.DzV"d}XPj"£ӭTYoyU=YJfV?1AhGH.]`fe߃xtp` 19:19:02 are you a sufi? 19:19:14 I... am an ACT-or 19:20:10 `? hi 19:20:13 hi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:20:36 ow bike.. you know about sufis? 19:20:54 "ow"? does that pain you? 19:21:02 erm. no 19:21:14 it's just pronounec differently in german 19:21:15 then why would you say "ow". 19:21:26 because i need to learn from you 19:21:26 HackEgo is back! and spewing random garbage! hurray! 19:22:00 bike: so how do you express the feeling of surprise? 19:22:05 quintopia, nah, that's just the only adequate way of describing Ngevd 19:22:17 "wow", "huh", "gosh", "my stars and garters" 19:22:45 great. or are sufis just the guys flying planes in two towers? 19:22:53 Bike: didn't you comment the other day that you absorbed gosh from me? 19:23:38 hagb4rd: what, no they're not 19:23:41 Golly, what an extraordinary happenstance 19:23:49 Fiora: probably, since i did and all 19:24:05 sorry, I was just checking my memory 19:24:10 bike: i learned a little about sufis from the writing of robert anton wilson 19:24:15 +s 19:24:44 RAW's kind of full of crap often, you should try actual academics, or - gasp - actual sufis 19:24:50 actually it was cosmic trigger. great book. one of my favourites 19:25:41 give me an author 19:25:45 or die in pain 19:26:00 that's not very nice. 19:26:53 please 19:26:55 but, i don't know that much about sufism particularly, just that it's a mystic/esoteric muslim tradition. 19:27:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism#Modern.2Fcontemporary_Sufi_scholars though, conveniently enough.... 19:27:17 oh yes the wiki article 19:27:23 i should've known 19:33:21 `run echo $(echo foo) 19:33:22 foo 19:34:31 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 19:35:29 -!- guestbot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:37:28 -!- atriq has joined. 19:38:15 `addquote GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe. 19:38:18 903) GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe. 19:38:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:38:26 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 19:38:58 Is that, the Globe as in the pub in Hexham 19:39:09 `addquote what is this set? sounds like shakespear Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger. 19:39:13 904) what is this set? sounds like shakespear Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger. 19:40:09 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:43:09 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:18 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:10:40 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:14:10 Fiora, what did you make of the recent Homestuck update 20:16:38 Taneb: what's *not* to make of it 20:17:23 Sense 20:21:39 oh man i need to pay attention to homestuck 20:22:31 Taneb: http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/40102764299/ 20:22:39 and http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/40058507475/ 20:23:45 maybe i can leave homestuck on the backburner for a while longer 20:23:54 Phantom_Hoover, elliott took that path 20:23:59 It didn't end prettily 20:24:17 how did it end 20:24:26 on sgeo's dread List. 20:24:31 I don't understand why people were fussing over the update so much though <_<; this didn't seem particularly insane to me as updates go I guess? 20:24:51 Did... 20:24:55 Did you watch the flash 20:24:57 yes 20:25:21 rainbows~ 20:25:54 It's probably the most doesn't-make-sense-out-of-context page in Homestuck 20:25:58 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 20:26:54 I'm not sure, there's a looooot of those 20:26:55 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006619 20:27:05 and often those arelike, the most wonderful panels <3 20:27:32 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003158 20:27:54 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=pony this one? 20:28:09 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=pony2 more so 20:28:18 wait, there's another? @_@ 20:28:31 which one has the sexy neighs 20:28:55 ohhhh the one with roxy 20:29:23 http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007555 this one too? 20:30:22 I think "every damn page of Homestuck, Problem Sleuth, Bard Quest, and Jailbreak" would work 20:35:30 wheeee used pdb (the python debugger) for the first time 20:35:33 it does in fact work 20:41:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:48:34 I've only ever used it in the form "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" 20:48:45 But it works nicely. 20:55:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:55:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:38 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:06:29 Hm. How about an esoteric programming language where every component of your program has a temperature. When components interact, temperature is transferred from the hotter one to the colder one. 21:06:33 If a component gets too hot or too cold, it malfunctions. 21:06:36 Program components get hotter as they are used. 21:08:33 And cool with disuse? 21:09:22 Maybe there's just one specific component that coolls constantly. 21:09:39 what if components just get more and more inaccurate as they heat, instead of having it be all or nothing? 21:10:21 That would be nice. 21:10:26 I wonder how that inaccuracy would be handled. like, arithmetic erorr, or bit errors? 21:10:41 Although I feel like maybe there should be a temperature range in which there are no errors at all. 21:10:43 maybe you could have, like, each part of the ALU be a component, and the hotter it is, the greater a chance of a bit flip 21:10:55 and the interpreter simulates the ALU so the bit flips can happen at any stage 21:11:20 tswett, and each component has a different tolerance 21:11:24 If the ALU is too hot, bits will start flipping randomly. If the ALU is too cold, bits will randomly fail to flip. 21:11:37 that seems a little bit less physically accurate XD 21:11:40 Fiora: i'm thinking of that von neumann paper about computing with inaccurate components. iirc they were analog but depending on the type of digital component that could be easy to figure out, like... oh there tswett goes. 21:11:53 i was thinking something rate-oriented would start fucking up the rate, etc 21:12:04 analog seems like it'd fail more gracefully 21:12:17 whereas random bit flips could really do like basically anything 21:12:35 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:49 There haven't been many esolangs designed by a group of people 21:12:57 The only one that springs to mind is Wierd 21:13:15 there seem to have been several designed primarily by one person, with "helpful" ideas thrown in by stooges on #esoteric. 21:14:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:14:13 And then there was that one that definitely isn't an acronym 21:14:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:15:10 Which didn't get very far 21:15:22 And it's successor, ABCDEF...G, which get even less far 21:23:40 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 21:28:34 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:29:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:32:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:08:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:08:21 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:08:54 elliott: pm me you waste of flesh 22:11:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:12:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:26:36 `rm -r -f * 22:26:38 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 22:26:44 `run rm -r -f * 22:27:10 `ls 22:27:13 No output. 22:27:23 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:27:38 FreeFull: OK i guess that's not what crashes it :P 22:28:05 by itself, at least 22:29:25 `run allquotes | tail -1 22:29:26 904) what is this set? sounds like shakespear Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger. 22:30:50 I guess oerjan (helloerjan!) will logread this later and add quotes? <-- GreyKnight stole my job! 22:31:36 `run shred --force --iterations=10 --zero --remove canary # maybe this'll finally kill it 22:31:38 helloerjan 22:31:39 No output. 22:31:40 `run ls -l canary 22:31:44 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:31 canary 22:31:45 :( 22:31:57 oerjan: Do you know what a cocategory would be in Haskell? 22:32:00 monqy: Or you. 22:32:08 I have: (_u :: forall p t s x. p t s -> Either (p t x) (p x s)) 22:32:18 (_u :: forall p x. p x x -> ?) 22:32:26 Where ? is either Void or (p b a) 22:32:56 i thought category was a self-dual concept. 22:33:12 Well, this looks like coidentity and cocompsition. 22:33:14 Or something. 22:33:41 heh, cute 22:33:54 Also I didn't invent these operations, they arose naturally. 22:33:58 So they must mean something?! 22:34:01 ooh 22:35:41 why not ? = (), btw 22:35:58 Because Void is the dual of () 22:36:07 An operation :: p a a -> () wouldn't do you very much good. 22:36:09 You already have () 22:36:39 but basically with Void you are saying that there cannot be any p x x 'es 22:36:56 Right. 22:37:15 shachaf: perhaps instead of the last you should have duals of source and target identities, those are sometimes used when doing categories without objects, i think 22:37:30 ? 22:37:53 These types come about naturally when you try to make an instance Category (Bizarre p a b) 22:37:58 p x x -> p x b _and_ p x x -> p a x 22:38:26 (By the way it's p b a, not p a b.) 22:38:31 OKAY 22:38:42 -!- jix has joined. 22:38:54 Anyway, those look like reasonable functions, but they're not the functions I'm dealing with here. :-) 22:40:57 `? monad tutorial 22:40:58 Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, but the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need. 22:42:13 oerjan: Ok 22:42:58 `? Sgeo 22:43:03 Sgeo is a language nomad. He invented Metaplace sex. 22:43:35 `learn Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex. 22:43:56 I knew that. 22:44:44 `? olsner 22:44:46 olsner seems to exist at least. 22:44:50 thanks 22:45:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:45:55 @tell Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude! <-- WELL IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION YOU SHOULD BE HERE WHEN WE JOIN. SHEESH. 22:45:55 Consider it noted. 22:48:54 oerjan: When manages to overcome the nick restrictions and join IRC, I'm sure they'll be very confused. 22:49:25 there are nick restrictions? 22:50:06 Yes, your nick can't have < or > 22:50:30 @tell GreyKnight Why does everyone keep quitting when I talk, it's quite rude! <-- WELL IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION YOU SHOULD BE HERE WHEN WE JOIN. SHEESH. 22:50:30 Consider it noted. 22:54:57 `run ls -l canary 22:54:58 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:43 canary 22:55:13 `rm canary 22:55:16 No output. 22:55:17 `run ls -l canary 22:55:21 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary 22:55:38 `run ls -l canary 22:55:39 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary 22:56:17 elliott: if the commit is never made when canary is removed, why would the modification date change... 22:56:39 oh hm wait 22:56:43 `run ls -l canary 22:56:44 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary 22:56:51 `ls 22:56:53 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:57:02 `touch test 22:57:05 No output. 22:57:12 `run ls -l canary 22:57:14 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary 22:57:23 `run echo test >test 22:57:26 No output. 22:57:30 `run ls -l canary 22:57:31 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:55 canary 22:57:39 `ls test 22:57:40 test 22:57:53 `run rm -f * 22:57:56 rm: cannot remove `bin': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `etc': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `factor': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `ibin': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `interps': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `lib': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `luabuild': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `paste': Is a directory \ 22:58:03 `run ls -l canary 22:58:07 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:58 canary 22:58:18 * c00kiemon5ter absords all three cookies lying outside the forcefield placed by GreyKnight ⌇⌇ 8-D ⌇⌇ .. . . 22:59:11 `run mv canary canary_foo 22:59:11 absording them? you, you ... monster! 22:59:13 No output. 22:59:21 `run ls -l canary 22:59:24 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 22:59 canary 22:59:28 `ls 22:59:30 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ paste \ quotes \ quotese \ run \ share \ test \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:59:42 it didnt move 22:59:46 `run ls -l `test 22:59:47 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 22:59:50 `run ls -l test 22:59:51 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 5 Jan 9 22:58 test 23:00:36 `run sh -c rm canary 23:00:37 rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 23:01:12 `run sh -c 'rm canary' 23:01:15 No output. 23:01:19 `run ls -l canary 23:01:23 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jan 9 23:01 canary 23:02:04 `run cat canary 23:02:05 tweet 23:02:12 `run echo foo > canary 23:02:15 No output. 23:02:18 `run cat canary 23:02:19 foo 23:02:26 aha 23:02:53 `run find . -name "canary" -delete 23:02:58 No output. 23:03:04 `run ls -l canary 23:03:07 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:03 canary 23:03:09 ah 23:03:13 `cat canary 23:03:15 foo 23:03:24 `rm canary 23:03:26 No output. 23:03:28 `cat canary 23:03:31 foo 23:03:36 `run ls -l canary 23:03:37 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:03 canary 23:06:00 `perl <<< 'unlink("canary");' 23:06:01 Can't open perl script "<<< 'unlink("canary");'": No such file or directory 23:06:14 `run perl <<< 'unlink("canary");' 23:06:17 No output. 23:06:20 `run ls -l canary 23:06:23 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:06 canary 23:06:26 <.< 23:06:49 `words --help 23:06:52 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 23:09:47 `perl -e 'unlink("canary");' 23:09:48 No output. 23:14:11 `run ls -l canary 23:14:11 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 9 23:06 canary 23:14:56 Are there any uses for kinds like (* -> *) -> (* -> *) -> * -> * <-- i think taking the product of two Applicatives has that type 23:15:46 *that kind 23:16:08 there are uses for all kinds of kinds 23:16:51 `quote 23:16:53 61) i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys) 23:16:54 `quote kind 23:16:56 182) quintopia: that's offensive, i was in a mirror accident and now my second half is a permanent mirror typing is kind of difficult \ 206) hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money \ 23:17:27 oh my, oklopol misleading the young 23:17:31 `quote 206 23:17:32 206) hey speaking of young, some kinds asked me to buy some tobacco for them and i did, and then they were all likd "wow that guy's coool" when i told them i don't need their money 23:17:55 or maybe he just knows stuff about tobacco and youth that the rest of us don't 23:20:39 `quote bored 23:20:40 181) Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored* \ 258) elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas. 23:20:58 `quote boring 23:21:00 117) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. \ 183) My quotes are boring \ 342) yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm consideri 23:21:14 `quote 342 23:21:16 342) yes i use the services of a psychic, but i'm considering getting a live one since stuff like "hello $name, your first name $first_name has |$first_name| letters, so by using numerology we can tell ..." is getting kind of boring 23:22:09 * olsner imagines oklopol kidnapping a live psychic for fortune telling purposes 23:36:14 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:48:15 -!- DHeadshot has joined.