< 1357344002 846176 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the one I have IRC on < 1357344026 531014 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://serverfault.com/questions/345111/iptables-target-to-route-packet-to-specific-interface < 1357344086 547654 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is MASQUERADE in iptables now again? < 1357344124 837965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of like the comment there suggests; it's like SNAT, except it picks the source address to use from the address "owned" by the outgoing interface. < 1357344145 585707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make it easier to configure things when the address is dynamically assigned. < 1357344160 323765 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well my address is dynamic on the VPN side < 1357344165 349136 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1357344195 671629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then "-j MASQUERADE" does sound easier than "-j SNAT --to-source $INSERT_VPN_ADDRESS_DYNAMICALLY_HERE". Though not terribly much so. < 1357344277 976991 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1357344299 706239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the POSTROUTING fixup does indeed sound like it's a just-in-case rule; I *think* given the configuration in that answer, if you have the usual kind of app that doesn't bind to a specific local address, it should get the VPN source address selected automatically. < 1357344313 113984 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reflection: on a flexibility-usability scale, iptables is on the far end of flexibility. < 1357344336 567895 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :while stuff like pf, and ufw even more so is on the other end < 1357344483 930294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think I'll sleep now; night. < 1357344499 435092 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1357344505 985763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thanks for all the help < 1357344901 754508 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-crx1-h-1-2.dab.02.net QUIT :Quit: . < 1357344947 346209 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, I just realised I have to work around the existence of network-manager, since this is debian < 1357344948 318976 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1357344992 945426 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll replace that with static routing for this computer I think < 1357345448 446042 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://failcube.forumlaunch.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=98 why isn't this guy in our channel o.0 < 1357345696 4712 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wondered < 1357345768 290291 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :my small lispalike interpreter keeps track of allocated pointers in a list < 1357345818 647068 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could easily implement simple mark&sweep GC < 1357345828 888105 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm in doubt < 1357345867 740022 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you in doubt < 1357345870 664035 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why not use a generational compacting GC? < 1357345873 326457 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it should run the GC < 1357345876 347039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is what all the big boys do < 1357345880 682912 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent too < 1357345895 32844 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because 64kB, no way to implement concurrency < 1357345908 476383 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have it run the gc when an allocation puts you over 50% usage or something < 1357345930 50592 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1357345935 79687 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1357345955 463283 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, embedded? < 1357345962 658914 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357345974 19238 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, so if you have constant 75% usage you run an allocation every time? < 1357345976 527951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1357345978 370230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sweep < 1357345988 665079 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357346004 209383 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a potential waste of time < 1357346004 401063 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the time when you come up with a better solution, but until then who cares < 1357346010 727737 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are the worst < 1357346011 554644 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357346036 584230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have it up the allocation threshhold each time, so it's 150% (something arbitrary) of what was left after the last gc < 1357346038 387945 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing s-exps requires copying some tokens < 1357346068 840184 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, probably, freeing most of them < 1357346084 411111 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why do you have to copy them? < 1357346088 734127 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for symbol names < 1357346090 717295 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not copy on write when you have a GC < 1357346183 472397 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, or create the concept of a substring type: '(string start-idx stop-idx) < 1357346199 667853 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make all your string routines able to work on that < 1357346204 689812 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when you tokenize (lambda (x) (+ x x)), you've probably got lambda in the symbol table < 1357346218 334126 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, true, where is the copy involved? < 1357346226 844180 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will also need x for some time < 1357346241 280891 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :to match against symbol table < 1357346244 433367 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, again, this could reference the input source string that you are parsing < 1357346249 342127 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the moment < 1357346263 209926 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a sub string type < 1357346292 98690 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to copy when adding a new entry to the symbol table, since at that point you don't want to keep the entire input string around any more < 1357346307 382696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but until then? < 1357346311 236473 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357346316 818167 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I did was < 1357346370 698787 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1357346389 859839 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenize&parse input and then check against symbol table during eval < 1357346396 632481 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357346435 321307 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1357346440 332118 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll rewrite this < 1357346441 353259 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true, there are some good reasons to not keep the string around during eval < 1357346445 367644 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only 300 loc < 1357346488 550253 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1357346555 526177 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1357346580 334487 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1357346819 767235 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1357347034 739415 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357347159 768542 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter JOIN :#esoteric < 1357347254 623228 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357348569 299010 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1357348583 206125 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think 'i' is good name for an irc client ? : < 1357348721 878707 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that you could name it that if you want but it might be hard to Google, but then I'd sound a little like zzo38 < 1357348722 880310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/DroneInsertion < 1357348787 115551 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but I have no other ideas .. any catchy names flying by your heads ? < 1357348795 25294 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircIV < 1357348800 61269 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, https://twitter.com/Friend_Computer < 1357348807 511807 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, iv was my other idea :P < 1357348825 968183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also rather too hard to google, i suspect < 1357348918 461885 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple has trademarked the letter i, you can't use it < 1357348978 593044 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i say, "iSee" what you did there ? < 1357348993 887182 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misses iRateRadio
< 1357349182 940456 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357349202 799291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could get iRksome < 1357349398 998139 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357350527 860160 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is sortBy (compare . fst) $ zip logs numbers giving me a type error ;_; < 1357350555 20691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty compare . fst < 1357350556 575193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ord a => (a, b) -> a -> Ordering < 1357350567 945711 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1357350574 505585 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1357350581 907057 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1357350585 172435 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dude complains that Ubuntu's /bin/sh (dash) isn't POSIX-compliant. After some debugging, the speculation is that in fact what's at /bin/sh isn't Ubuntu's, but is a rootkit which is not POSIX-compliant." < 1357350601 308043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: (When you ask a question like that, you should include the error! Otherwise people have to read your mind.) < 1357350603 402609 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fascinating < 1357350625 66184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids and their rootkits these days! < 1357350709 77949 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what would be a pointfree way to write (\(a,b) (c,d) -> compare a c) < 1357350738 27139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare `on` f < 1357350740 704747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or comparing f < 1357350748 501148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case f=fst < 1357350752 790678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your rootkit is not at least ring -10 you are just a loser < 1357350793 858237 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My rootkit is at ring banana phone. < 1357351105 966400 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I should watch some more CCC stuff < 1357351116 665821 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And keep thinking through my design of Racket-Qoppa < 1357351166 630970 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot haskell had fast bignums and laziness < 1357351167 753105 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And file a bug report against the Racket documentation, I should really do that now < 1357351180 212984 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a much simpler solution to what I'm doing < 1357351189 410999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fignums < 1357351355 261667 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're creating a racket language for qoppa? cool < 1357351387 1560 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazinums. < 1357351402 411147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tswett < 1357351405 653823 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahoy. < 1357351412 846280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything exciting to tell us about natural numbers? < 1357351419 688672 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1357351442 152364 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I've been pondering how to combine all the best features of C++ with all the best features of Haskell. < 1357351456 539168 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wants to add C++ templates to Haskell. < 1357351481 455935 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's simple. Take C++, and remove fields. < 1357351503 394969 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boom. Best of both worlds. < 1357351542 732905 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, on second thought, fields are kind of useful. But all fields should be immutable outside of constructors. < 1357351548 618257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the features of C++ templates other than what Haskell has? < 1357351704 271451 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing insanity... wait, never mind < 1357351714 822533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well tell what you're doing and maybe we have an idea :) < 1357351726 203852 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ things can be templated on integer values as well as types < 1357351755 357163 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++: harbinger of dependently typed systems. < 1357351755 565179 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t on < 1357351756 699770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also C++ lets you specialize templates on specific types, which makes them non-parametric < 1357351756 870345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c < 1357351768 895116 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it so f does something totally different from f < 1357351796 13871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that is possible in Haskell too if you have type classes, and type families < 1357351808 468963 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm seeing what the largest a^b is < 1357351835 213134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: b*log a ? < 1357351845 169763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5^8 -- this is the largest it gets < 1357351847 172758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 390625 < 1357351847 344358 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's what I tried at first < 1357351852 255234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you have overflow problems < 1357351875 599800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: largest from a set of (a,b) pairs? < 1357351881 183422 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep =P < 1357351890 257723 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euler 99 < 1357351892 559535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can make numbers as types too in Haskell. < 1357351894 687013 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/pokemon_ebooks < 1357351926 914205 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried the log thing first < 1357351944 265521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maximumBy < 1357351945 818107 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a -> Ordering) -> [a] -> a < 1357352006 412368 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice < 1357352033 800075 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have code that works, it just seems to give me the wrong result = < 1357352035 157576 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1357352039 555322 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaait < 1357352043 35491 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know why < 1357352054 856383 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found the minimum instead of maximum >_< < 1357352128 880862 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go :D < 1357352190 206780 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just swapped the arguments to compare < 1357352227 106582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1357352645 183839 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O a number of people on Reddit really like Star Trek Enterprise < 1357352693 20888 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would ask how to beautify this Haskell code but I don't want to post Project Euler answers ): < 1357352716 511914 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"7" < 1357353194 645806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: maximum [a^b | (a,b) <- yourListOfPairsHere] < 1357353211 714134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the a^b is what is actually the answer < 1357353231 577041 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the answer is the line number < 1357353269 883752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1357353286 935348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know in C you can combine string literals like "abc" "xyz" but does it work with character literals too? < 1357353299 660847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would FreeT (w,) IO be more or less the equivalent of Python generators? < 1357353311 554220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess generators can have input too these days. But ignoring that. < 1357353353 69922 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know, multicharacter literals don't get used much < 1357353368 620094 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess so, if they are like JavaScript generators. < 1357353387 746109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For input too you need the free monad of the indexed store comonad. < 1357353456 349497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo i o a = (o, i -> a)? < 1357353466 685119 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Foo i o a = i -> (o, a)? < 1357353533 568816 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357353549 768193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: main = print . fst . maximumBy (compare `on` snd) . zip [1..] . map (\[a,b] -> a^b) . map words . lines =<< getContents -- >:) < 1357353570 488975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. At least if it is like JavaScript generators, then (o, i -> a) is correct. < 1357353582 386467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops < 1357353588 340228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some read in there < 1357353674 573465 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already solved it < 1357353698 356291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: i was just prettifying my imagined solution < 1357353941 13972 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file's contents are stored as 23452345,234521 on each line < 1357354179 432893 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, how much of a violation of Qoppa's beauty would it be to have wrap be a primitive and a in-Qoppa implementation of wrap behaves differently and wrongly with Racket interop < 1357354184 573907 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone made any progress on the narcissus-free language front? < 1357354189 354212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while primitive wrap works < 1357354859 454908 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter QUIT :Quit: c00kiemon5ter < 1357354902 908486 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter JOIN :#esoteric < 1357355148 353368 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ copy/pasting the definition of map from one Racket language to another can result in two maps with different semantics < 1357355161 429717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the thought of copy/pasting though < 1357355179 324122 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it would be annoying to do that just because I want map to have the new function application semantics < 1357355196 438021 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have kernel's cyclic list semantics < 1357355238 548865 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in implementing Qoppa than Kernel, at least at this point. Qoppa's much simpler < 1357355259 753679 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And doesn't require me changing the reader to get rid of quasiquote < 1357355298 257783 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1357355301 315179 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you have any ideas? < 1357355304 130366 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't remember what Kernel's cyclic list semantics are < 1357355332 435856 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme put it this way, you need an lcm function to implement map. < 1357355526 980728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1357355549 440281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really really do like the name $define! < 1357355560 605152 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so? < 1357355586 528226 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It describes that it's a non-applicative operative and that it does a side effect < 1357355626 434529 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should rewrite scheme in Ro. < 1357355640 37242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ro? < 1357355682 429044 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A philosophical language from I think the 19th century. Idea was you encoded meaning as a tree of phoneme selections. < 1357355689 236591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: read ('(':line++")") or read ('[':line++"]") is a nice way to read comma separated tuples or lists :) < 1357355713 404236 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok, I see the relevant to what I said < 1357355769 910965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*separated data into < 1357355844 723701 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: True < 1357355858 865686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember I once won a game of Pokemon card by perpetual check. You might think of, there is no perpetual check in Pokemon card? But, it is like perpetual check. < 1357355896 919512 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I'd really like to be able to stick a piece of metadata onto things < 1357355903 595816 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tag, saying "do not evaluate" < 1357355907 6829 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Racket interop < 1357355917 368027 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1357355939 513364 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's read function does not normally accept comments. < 1357355992 733461 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, what happens if a Qoppa operative forced in a context where it can't receive forms (e.g. called by a Racket function) tries to evaluate twice? < 1357356023 992744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Idea of what? I don't know. < 1357356024 821661 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilariously difficult to locate bugs? < 1357356026 366502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, although I guess quote semantically does make sense here < 1357356057 17960 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a narcissus-free programming language < 1357356071 361962 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: No, I don't have an idea. < 1357356100 6887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did once, but I was not complete of it and I forget what I had. < 1357356104 507361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it didn't work. < 1357356177 375376 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357356182 735854 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357356344 892440 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1357356727 408694 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: main = print . fst . maximumBy (\(_,a) (_,b) -> compare a b) . zip [1..] . map (\(x,y) -> y * log x) . map (\x -> read ('(':x++")")) . lines =<< readFile "base_exp.txt" < 1357356746 890211 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357356759 888582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you didn't want to use on? < 1357356774 793203 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find where it's defined < 1357356782 163255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function is one place < 1357356790 453675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle on < 1357356790 839690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function on :: (b -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> a -> c < 1357356791 9728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base onException :: IO a -> IO b -> IO a < 1357356791 9975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception onException :: IO a -> IO b -> IO a < 1357356813 293921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src on < 1357356813 661967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*) `on` f = \x y -> f x * f y < 1357356823 288061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I told you about comparing, which also works here. < 1357356890 68415 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle comparing < 1357356890 401777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Ord comparing :: Ord a => (b -> a) -> b -> b -> Ordering < 1357356947 794947 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess comparing snd ? < 1357356962 560005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357356994 468223 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357357190 564971 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I even dare try making \x -> read ('(':x++")") pointfree by hand < 1357357214 333811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not that hard. < 1357357222 164334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start by rewriting it in prefix form. < 1357357237 8484 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is for a pointfree novice < 1357357254 585323 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be a wuss, freefull. wusses are so full of points. < 1357357268 521047 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just figure the pointfree version would be shorter =P < 1357357274 763127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. < 1357357322 892428 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know (\(x,y) -> y * log x) can be written as (uncurry ((*) . log)) < 1357357401 341641 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you saved... -1 characters. < 1357357432 898110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: @pling is not about golfing. < 1357357438 737943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Golf is a separate activity. < 1357357439 902480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi < 1357357440 342655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about pi. < 1357357441 492577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where pi_10 < 1357357441 868094 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] < 1357357443 769374 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where e_10 < 1357357444 213515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[show(sum$scanl div(100^n)[1..[4..]!!n])!!n|n<-[0..]] < 1357357450 843004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's a nice e_10 < 1357357455 76132 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is pling < 1357357470 135000 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a sound bicycles make. < 1357357473 337048 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very nice. < 1357357477 298496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bikes don't make it, though. < 1357357477 599444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PLING* < 1357357483 717650 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't know how you count, because the uncurry version actually has exactly the same length < 1357357484 330775 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoity toity bicycles, maybe. < 1357357503 370546 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I count it in "i dumped it into a program because i can't count" style. < 1357357519 727997 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you removed the unnecessary spaces < 1357357525 953193 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would make the first one shorter < 1357357574 698237 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where exp < 1357357575 39712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about exp. < 1357357584 909115 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :>exp 1 < 1357357589 112362 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exp 1 < 1357357590 778201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.718281828459045 < 1357357593 200516 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you go < 1357357595 179199 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1357357607 423502 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that ain't even a continued fraction. Sucks. < 1357357754 724065 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357357756 548937 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hadn't spotted this one on the Wiki... http://t.co/6wE3jfdl < 1357357773 720521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ont clicking a t.co link. < 1357357777 496131 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that earlier < 1357357779 840585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty hilarious < 1357357783 92648 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please post an unshortened version. < 1357357783 829285 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :reach out to him < 1357357818 272332 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/munificent/vigil shachaf. < 1357357827 426756 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1357357879 533490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shachaf was touched < 1357358376 589928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> exp 1 :: CReal < 1357358378 388609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.7182818284590452353602874713526624977572 < 1357358400 344603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: BETTER? < 1357358516 847408 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would more digits make it better < 1357358588 484783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well CReal is unlimited in theory < 1357358618 718872 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's represented as a function i bet < 1357358628 937911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc yes < 1357358659 604273 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what functions are oerjan? they are not fractions hardly at all. < 1357358733 690603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (\x -> let f = floor x in Just (f, 1/(x-f))) (exp 1 :: CReal) < 1357358735 471669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral Data.Number.CReal.CReal) < 1357358735 642247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1357358742 962596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1357358749 369278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> unfoldr (\x -> let f = floor x in Just (f, 1/(x-fromIntegral f))) (exp 1 :: CReal) < 1357358751 483802 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell, language of no instance for < 1357358753 229172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1357358760 512742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1357358769 490727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 50 $ unfoldr (\x -> let f = floor x in Just (f, 1/(x-fromIntegral f))) (exp 1 :: CReal) < 1357358772 714173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,1,2,1,1,4,1,1,6,1,1,8,1,1,10,1,1,12,1,1,14,1,1,16,1,1,18,1,1,20,1,1,22,1... < 1357358835 910312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE CUTOFF BEYOND THE CURTAIN < 1357358858 15457 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought haskell had infinite datatypes. where are my infinite datatypes oerjan < 1357358873 950249 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have < 1357358892 424893 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1357358905 705436 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only via wrappers, not directly < 1357358954 865400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [2,1] ++ intercalate [1,1] $ [2,4..] -- LOOK MA I'M INFINITE < 1357358956 657472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[t0]' < 1357358956 828217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type `[[a0]] -... < 1357358962 745329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'd typed, that is < 1357358965 576589 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all are good at this. < 1357358985 26544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (++) [2,1] . intercalate [1,1] $ [2,4..] -- LOOK MA I'M INFINITE < 1357358986 619079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Enum.Enum [t0], GHC.Num.Num [t0]) < 1357358986 789897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1357358986 962083 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any particular reason you didn't stick with [2,4..]? < 1357358994 8509 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [3,7...] < 1357358995 342535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : A section must be enclosed in parentheses thus: (7 ...)Not in scope: `...' < 1357358995 514502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1357359006 186031 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [3,7..] < 1357359007 347904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hyphen hyphen space a comment in Haskell? < 1357359007 843016 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,7,11,15,19,23,27,31,35,39,43,47,51,55,59,63,67,71,75,79,83,87,91,95,99,1... < 1357359009 881669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was just Lua < 1357359014 604333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1357359020 595523 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyphen hyphen is < 1357359024 307064 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [3,7,19..] < 1357359025 858217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:8: parse error on input `..' < 1357359029 976681 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not hyphen hyphen other symbol character < 1357359048 588102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 --+ 4 < 1357359050 84700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `--+' < 1357359058 123647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a -- token < 1357359082 332650 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 {-+ 4 < 1357359083 793927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:3: unterminated `{-' < 1357359085 979665 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 {-+ 4 -} < 1357359087 305816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1357359095 289215 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah < 1357359110 728710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2----------------------------hi there < 1357359112 448395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1357359128 521907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose law is it that lexical syntax of comments will cause the most controversy in any language design? < 1357359134 701594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wadler's law < 1357359135 222973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except in #esoteric, who mostly don't care) < 1357359156 102127 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also parkinson's law of triviality < 1357359156 273792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wow, I'm vaguely impressed that you knew it without looking it up :) < 1357359165 485157 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he mentions it all the time < 1357359168 190059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :our favorite comment syntax is "any unused command character" :) < 1357359175 273929 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2 REM 19 < 1357359176 405193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `REM' < 1357359186 804263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it doesn't scale well < 1357359204 267527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my favourite comment syntax is "thing that incidentally happens to be unexecuted due to the semantics of the language" < 1357359209 362118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as (comment)*0 in BF Joust < 1357359240 567125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, my BF Joust interp juiced uses ()*10 or whatever as debug markers, because they're no-ops from the point of view of other interpreters, which is what you want) < 1357359265 612670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realize wadler was one of the haskell designers, right? < 1357359285 916479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I had a vague memory of something like that < 1357359291 365376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was haskell-related, at least < 1357359296 326645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least some haskell-like language < 1357359342 216430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that they had a unique approach to dealing with the issue known as "the syntax czar" < 1357359470 850239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that < 1357359474 694696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not really unique < 1357359482 296938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens in most medium-sized projects, doesn't it? < 1357359599 827257 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357359900 833056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'" vaginal photoplethysmography" redirects here. For other uses, see vaginal photoplethysmography (disambiguation).' < 1357359905 357627 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell else could that be < 1357359952 50657 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably an album name. < 1357359959 703968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357359963 695026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disambig link is dead though < 1357360037 484068 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not in the logs either < 1357360144 860114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone probably added the template without knowing what it was for < 1357360661 194781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I make a stupid request? < 1357360666 236499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :websites, please stop using black backgrounds < 1357360682 340143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like black backgrounds and light foregrounds late at night to reduce the overall light level in the room < 1357360700 898874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, I want to be able to turn inverse video on and just leave it on < 1357360705 558511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the occasional shock white screen < 1357361288 996173 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\rainbow{user stylesheet} < 1357361780 24205 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crud, Racket Qoppa might be harder than I thought < 1357361781 761691 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to check < 1357361897 953402 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, huh, guess not < 1357361905 631036 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely sure why not, but hey < 1357361915 947779 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I understand < 1357361962 943551 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The outermost #%app sees the full form as is, which doesn't get imbued with more #%app and #%datum and gunk unless it's in a position to be expanded < 1357361975 639597 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define-syntax-rule (#%app form ...) < 1357361975 811070 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : (quote (form ...))) < 1357361989 244157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is ridiculously fun < 1357362008 253429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+ 1 2) < 1357362008 424696 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(+ 1 2) < 1357362009 842227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a)) < 1357362010 18358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the ambiguity chec... < 1357362013 373291 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+ 1 2 (* 2 3) (* 4 5)) < 1357362013 545462 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(+ 1 2 (* 2 3) (* 4 5)) < 1357362015 399236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num < 1357362015 569817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a0 -> (a1 -> a1) -> (a3... < 1357362040 346008 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just need to get a good understanding of Racket eval < 1357362344 827739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1357362614 805901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi, why are you awake? < 1357362625 754454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm often up this late < 1357362635 318987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it gets to about 5am, I tend to wait for sunrise before going home < 1357362640 507346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nicer journey that way < 1357362717 939632 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357362804 801640 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1357362811 727485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just woke up :( < 1357362828 774519 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is really tired.
< 1357362929 79120 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357362934 826965 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357363146 65974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: going back to sleep would not be unreasonable, if you can < 1357363161 619813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well there's a problem < 1357363169 869188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i decided i should get up when i was even more tired than this < 1357363184 872216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i've committed to it so it's too late to change my mind now that i'm awake enough to realise what a terrible idea it was < 1357363225 975560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1357363280 702172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have this sneaking suspicion that if I went back to bed I'd wake up late afternoon again < 1357363286 678136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I just spent several days trying to stop < 1357363361 230765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1357363416 519809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i will just have a terrible day and then go to sleep at seven pm or something < 1357365020 620301 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357365133 715030 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357365280 34928 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357365285 846757 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357366058 916386 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, can Qoppa environments be opaque to Qoppa? < 1357366137 713729 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357366143 877183 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the language i described in that blog post < 1357366164 684826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to maniuplate environments in order to define 'define' and 'set!' and such as library code < 1357366175 104361 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make them an abstract data type, but not really opaque < 1357366195 466189 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, ok < 1357366225 424944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have an operative languages where environments are opaque, but you need more primitives then < 1357366253 969335 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of qoppa was to have as few primitives and evaluation rules as possible < 1357366269 554069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only three evaluator rules, only one primitive that isn't an applicative, i.e. function < 1357366278 964371 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think kernel's having environments only used for eval, and $define! as an optional primitive, made pretty good sense. < 1357366307 605166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that primitive being vau < 1357366319 872840 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even vau is a name bound to a value in the global environment, and not a special evaluator rule < 1357366388 466910 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The namespaces that Racket eval accepts as an argument don't seem to be _very_ modifyable < 1357366409 214167 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: in what way is it optional? < 1357366441 774520 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in that the spec separates out environment mutation stuff as optional, and the author says "optional" < 1357366456 49824 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a bitch to define letrec without it though < 1357366469 389294 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1357366520 865349 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be hard to use the language without $define! but so it goes < 1357366543 334336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Fiora monqy < 1357367049 67464 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :having both operatives and applicatives at a fundamentel level seems inelegant < 1357367057 994508 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be the right decision though < 1357367063 872800 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interested to understand that tradeoff better < 1357367077 497961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: zepto just had operatives < 1357367086 586732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an applicative was just an operative that happened to evaluate all its arguments in order first < 1357367098 557432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there existed an operative to automatically wrap an operative into one of those < 1357367111 889662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's how qoppa is as well < 1357367121 78383 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not how kernel is...? < 1357367127 28311 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes it tricky to write 'apply' < 1357367130 827277 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: no, it has both as primitive types < 1357367143 936197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'wrap' and 'unwrap' are language primitives < 1357367171 632234 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in qoppa 'wrap' is a kinda hackish library thing, and 'unwrap' doesn't exist < 1357367184 320890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: apply is quite easy? < 1357367192 482134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did (apply f xs) = (eval (cons f xs)) basically < 1357367205 769305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apply if '((> x 2) "yay" "nay")) working is cute < 1357367215 782685 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, sorry, wrap is fine, but 'apply' is weird < 1357367220 926806 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357367224 565244 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look again < 1357367235 644206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it's obviously weird and violates all reasonable ideas of abstraction < 1357367238 357993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't that kind of the point < 1357367413 541318 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is more like (apply f xs) = (eval (cons f (map (lambda (x) (list quote x)) xs))) < 1357367423 508375 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because f is an applicative and so it's going to call 'eval' on its arguments < 1357367428 138149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the xs are already evaluated < 1357367432 758752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1357367438 720128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I did, you're right < 1357367444 6241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I even used the "map" in scope < 1357367449 100267 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had unwrap you would do (apply f xs) = (eval (cons (unwrap f) xs)) < 1357367450 332552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you redefined "map", "apply" would start working weirdly < 1357367453 362489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just how zepto i am < 1357367456 505122 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1357367460 482522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well you can define unwrap < 1357367464 430691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrap makes it eval all its arguments < 1357367467 182064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwrap makes it quote all its arguments < 1357367470 22051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357367474 884321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty elegant and you can do it without a notion of an applicative < 1357367475 379859 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so < 1357367526 567360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm not sure if this business about "if you redefine map" counts as a violation of hygeine or not < 1357367539 639334 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think basically no < 1357367552 726171 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you close over a mutable environment, and it changes later, things can break < 1357367560 209168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not specific to macro-ish things < 1357367584 32133 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want to save the original value of map, you can do that easily enough < 1357367584 553695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well you can just define apply in terms of the map in scope < 1357367587 442121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by doing (list map ...) etc. < 1357367598 734762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's so uncool < 1357367619 944355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros pretty much fundamentally break scoping and reasoning though < 1357367623 612051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't care < 1357367631 761407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did enjoy using 'lambda' to save the value of 'lambda' while using set! to redefine the value of 'lambda' < 1357367638 933314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to add sugar) < 1357367724 254470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea with zepto was that all the primitives would be defined in terms of the other primitives as much as possible < 1357367733 629708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could just screw with how the interpreter works by redefining map or cons or whatever < 1357367738 228913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even quote < 1357367739 824291 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, cool < 1357368888 482164 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357371368 692295 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sokal's paper (in brief - the real paper contains more nonsense than can be discussed here) argued that a properly free mathematics would free us from the social constructs which are implied by our rigid, unyielding, dogmatic, anti-feminist, capitalist, and unjust theory of gravity. Of course, they did publish it of their own free will..." < 1357371384 552345 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1357371387 567201 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, how long ago was that now < 1357371397 201587 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this about the sokal affair < 1357371447 800592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357371460 478708 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, have you seen snarxiv? < 1357371473 280399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1357371483 970971 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should see snarxiv. < 1357371561 603118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heterotic string is apparently a real term < 1357371824 564415 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was one (reloaded away) about examining reheated bubbles < 1357371844 555179 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can't visit that site < 1357371849 35160 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomness makes me feel weird < 1357371897 920390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1357371898 574009 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1357371934 799868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was a kid, I remember one Monopoly game where I recorded every roll of the dice and every action < 1357371940 585927 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the 20th century, Georgi recalled metrics on C^6. We present a criterion for an analytic continuation of metrics in a tachyonic model with B-mesons. The sheaf cohomology depends, surprisingly, on whether models of Brans-Dicke inflation can be interpreted as the QED/TQFT correspondence. When demystifying type I strings, we obtain that cosmological parameters in Topological String Theory turn out to be equivalent to some little-know < 1357371945 840076 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds incredibly boring, sgeo. < 1357371956 206984 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want it to be lost forever < 1357372029 939061 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have saved those Snarxiv titles and abstracts < 1357372048 759183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reload the page enough times they'll come back!! < 1357372080 576846 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, i take it you're not a fan of the copenhagen interpretation. < 1357372084 752545 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357372088 262699 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: out of curiosity by any chance do you like monopoly? < 1357372118 164669 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not especially, but for other reasons I think < 1357372125 582133 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1357372128 586297 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1357372163 282757 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember playing Monopoly on the computer with friends, and some left, so a friend and I kept playing and making moves for them, and we caused one to go bankrupt, and I felt bad about that < 1357372188 378550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think that's when my iffyness about randomness started < 1357372201 12753 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1357372242 785754 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i picked an awesomely coincidental time to start reading chaitin, huh. < 1357372403 108956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: if you break the roles of monopoly you'll be chaitin < 1357372411 372654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8) < 1357372418 503866 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1357372428 14116 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357372428 803729 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm. i have to revoke your boot privileges for that one < 1357372458 430638 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't entirely get how Chaitin is relevant. Things other than Chaitin's Constant? < 1357372466 908767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the game Monopoly either, but it isn't really too bad; however, when I played we usually changed some rules, such as if you decide not to buy something it just stays and is not auctioned, and that if you land on free parking you are allowed to teleport. < 1357372490 397905 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: binary representation of his constant is indistinguishable from coin flips. < 1357372499 264176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i dont wear boots < 1357372501 919654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like Copenhagen interpretation, what interpretation do you like? < 1357372502 714474 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1357372507 988253 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the boot piece, the piece < 1357372518 710069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i dont wear pieces of boots either < 1357372520 213796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats just silly < 1357372523 343872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you wear only parts of a boot < 1357372527 238160 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also chaitin has this kind of bugaboo about math being random. < 1357372532 61140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike are you "trolling" me < 1357372545 785389 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it no car either < 1357372550 9587 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't work in this environment < 1357372555 266734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Bike was suggesting that since randomness makes me uncomfortable, the idea of the universe being fundamentally random would make me very uncomfortable < 1357372559 201887 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it does. < 1357372590 80938 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should look at what "random" means! it's a so very interesting term < 1357372609 183653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone out there is using a quantum random number generator to make a decision... the thought of that makes me go a little pale < 1357372628 582632 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get quantum random numbers online a few places < 1357372647 828432 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I roll a die when elliott asks me to make a decision for him. stomach-churning??? < 1357372680 299165 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, the dice likely macroscopic enough that its numbers are deterministic < 1357372697 5776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, mostly deterministic < 1357372697 176427 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pssh, they'd still follow a distribution! < 1357372704 614115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I used HotBits to determine which of two (previously-written) phrasings of this statement to send < 1357372706 230806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it is OK though, and I am also OK some games which partially include randomness, but what I like best is some visible information everyone, some hidden, some random, much skill, and a few chance involved. Games with complete information (such as chess) are still good, though. < 1357372719 582858 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the dice are a metaphor for me asking a quantum random number generator < 1357372729 434858 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone considered that zzo38 may actually be God? < 1357372736 300759 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the guy that designed the universe we're in. < 1357372742 697562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think HotBits is pretty reliably ~quantum~ < 1357372742 977764 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least the one i'm in. y'all are weird. < 1357372750 64724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HotBits are generated by timing successive pairs of radioactive decays detected by a Geiger-Müller tube interfaced to a computer." < 1357372753 68111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks so < 1357372770 863503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/how3.html cool < 1357372780 486942 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, müller is like at least four quantumsworth < 1357372792 760060 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw what do you mean that a die's numbers are "deterministic" < 1357372813 111869 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I suppose so; I have thought about egotheism in the past. However, I have also thought about many other things too, so I think there are better ways anyways. < 1357372836 130240 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, they're a function of the way the air's flowing < 1357372839 823221 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would you like to be an antipope? < 1357372842 413531 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of the way it's rolled < 1357372843 609595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I think about a lot of things. So it isn't relevant. < 1357372859 304201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't how the air flows dependent on quantum details < 1357372860 356380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I have no intention to be pope or antipope. I also have no intention to be God. < 1357372881 8365 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be god unintentionally. < 1357372882 933420 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops" < 1357372909 954138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But saying you can be God is about as nonsense as saying you can be a number and so on. < 1357372925 804770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i am pretty sure it is < 1357372929 841794 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pebbles can be numbers, so why can't I? < 1357372935 642027 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote pebble < 1357372937 570351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote pebble < 1357372940 348898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy.... < 1357372944 132679 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :540) what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it < 1357372944 348132 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :540) what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it < 1357372965 74315 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come this itidus dude isn't still here, he's cool < 1357372993 967232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: It could represent the numbers perhaps, but I mean the abstract mathematical concept of the numbers, not the things you count with them or the figures you write down to indicate them. < 1357373014 62981 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I be a thing you count with numbers or a figure you write down to indicate them? < 1357373015 36439 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think it might be fair to say that itidus belongs in the other type of #esoteric about as much as he does here < 1357373047 266190 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no... not really supernatural thinking, but.... partial thinking < 1357373097 923325 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1357373099 690274 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's partial thinking < 1357373140 925382 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about ideas but not thoroughly < 1357373160 272698 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that's not an accurate way to describe him < 1357373193 949797 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't think about it thoroughly because that would take forever! < 1357373200 454907 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial evaluation of the brain < 1357373515 678466 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357374173 963980 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357374406 238497 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: tired < 1357374955 830718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I write a Brainhype interpreter in Scheme-omega, does that count as an implementation? < 1357374976 650870 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite the fact that the language I implemented it in is itself not implementable? < 1357374982 943569 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I guess it is implementable < 1357374990 790482 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just no implementations can run on turing machines < 1357374994 731154 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :philosophy question: what is an implementation? < 1357375015 239270 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any completely unimplementable languages? < 1357375046 156131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by completely unimplementable < 1357375067 406076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any language can be implemented in the trivial language where every program is a that-language interpreter < 1357375079 449430 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. So trivially no, then. < 1357375079 986136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language whose specification is logically contradictory isn't "implementable" but that's because it's not a language < 1357375185 264397 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1357375272 882127 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1357375425 994575 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the mathematical structure called, which has the successor and predecessor (inverse of each other), and total ordering according to the successor and predecessor, but not such thing as a designated zero point? < 1357375750 844343 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need to designate a point as special to define the integers/ < 1357375753 730426 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1357375910 690697 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by designated zero point < 1357375923 645163 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by define the integers < 1357375932 814814 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. "designate a point as special" < 1357375966 747324 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess by alt. i mean &. whoops! < 1357376118 866689 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357376383 841423 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is asking for something without a designated zero point < 1357376401 288801 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that necessarily imply that there is no 0, or just that it's not defined based on 0? < 1357376401 569991 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but what does that mean < 1357376409 459533 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "0" < 1357376426 250947 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With peano arithmetic, you start from zero and build from there < 1357376435 764945 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that's what zzo38 means < 1357376439 724816 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it mean not to have a "0" < 1357376456 603369 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1357376461 995601 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1357376571 4569 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are lotsa ways to do these definitions but a "0" here is kind of an artificial concept if you don't have any addition operation for it to be the identity of < 1357376601 577675 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i could define the integers as a free group but would the identity be the "0"? < 1357376699 856916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean one without any identity points. < 1357376709 42143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any other points as special in some way. < 1357376713 360759 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what operations are you considering < 1357376799 192630 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't talk about "identity element" without an operation for it to be the identity of < 1357376857 618196 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the operations I listed; no addition and so on. < 1357376917 361653 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing special about 0 if you only have succ, pred, and ordering < 1357377140 334141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 0 is just a symbol for the additive identity < 1357377146 798124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists iff you have an additive identity < 1357377185 998151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though certain constructions of the integers like peano numbers (+ handling of negation so you get integers) are "based" upon 0 sure < 1357377223 239697 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pls enlarge quotes around `"based"' < 1357377531 274834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think calling the peano axioms "based on 0" is fair < 1357377546 263689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it uses 0 as an "atomic element" < 1357377578 819761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it uses an atom we'll call zero that it then makes an additive identity by defining addition directly such that it is < 1357377757 876266 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357378246 653110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1357379112 761905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Tcl count as a macro system? < 1357379190 107232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANK YOU OLEG < 1357379203 323040 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am tired of hearing the claim that Haskell does not need macros < 1357379367 156387 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1357379378 574873 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up < 1357379389 724027 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading some of Oleg's slides < 1357379413 710180 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/papers/Macros-talk.pdf < 1357379499 182666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"need" < 1357379926 803576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell (and other programming languages, too) would be much improved by use of macros. < 1357379951 245770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do-notation, list-notation, etc ought to be implemented as macros. < 1357379987 33407 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1357380054 681345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are some of the things I wanted to fix with Ibtlfmm, for example. < 1357380083 477328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C preprocessor macros is not very powerful, compared to some others. < 1357380194 503314 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth, Lisp, BLISS, TeX, METAFONT, all have more sophisticated macros. < 1357380249 592064 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1357380289 122401 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1357380361 193711 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than preprocessor macros and string literals, is replacing ,, with , and ;; with ; in a C program going to keep a valid program valid with the same meaning? < 1357380390 197289 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter breaks for (;;) < 1357380412 413143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, with for(;;) you are correct, I forgot < 1357380455 638410 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if it is in a {} block instead of () block, then will it be? < 1357380476 361515 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll be fine then. < 1357380533 303076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ,, ever valid in any block? < 1357380607 23442 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ,} and ,] and ,) mean anything in C? < 1357380890 895834 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: ;; < 1357380894 336577 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357381014 844295 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357381550 834525 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357381551 6882 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357381551 7025 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357381671 370056 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1357382092 855232 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357384105 775393 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1357384561 706923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357385302 886024 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1357385310 537736 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1357385321 868372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1357386079 844011 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bhx2-h-1-8.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357386404 630690 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bhx2-h-1-8.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357386433 271336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So the syntax-rules design loses as a < 1357386433 441979 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :result of failing to observe the very sort of constraint that it < 1357386433 442212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imposes on anyone trying to write a block-with-implicitly-bound-break < 1357386433 442326 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro." < 1357386437 206702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :String literal concatenation does not exist for character literals, to answer a question from many hours back. < 1357386812 574789 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1357387561 530152 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think I understand ??!lambda and ??!apply < 1357387962 590968 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1357389142 892179 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1357389353 421860 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bas2-h-32-4.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357389367 677092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a CK abstract machine? < 1357389704 586993 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bas2-h-32-4.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357390149 235873 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing in this: http://www.ii.uni.wroc.pl/~dabi/publications/WRS07/biernacka-biernacki-wrs07.pdf ? < 1357390349 117018 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1357390365 177242 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrocław University < 1357390390 946149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cławs of Steel. < 1357390428 83172 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Słabe < 1357390443 403504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga you know that on computers you don't have to cross out letters you didn't mean to put in < 1357390446 734188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's even better. < 1357390494 420382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should spell it vrotswav < 1357390518 687822 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe Rocklaw < 1357390528 705048 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bas2-h-32-1.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357390707 438121 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rocklaw University, for all the aspiring rockstar/lawyers. < 1357390784 36794 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You, too, can be a rockstar slash lawyer. < 1357390811 487195 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-bas2-h-32-1.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357390875 114128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Jafet < 1357390877 231494 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1357390906 27674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Today I'm shipping rockstar slash lawyer. < 1357390945 822123 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357391003 787906 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: really? < 1357391037 818654 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's amazing, right? < 1357391085 214803 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :trüly < 1357393321 899421 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357393428 813431 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1357394359 225338 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357395271 69006 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :∆t < 1357395275 950588 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357395849 328599 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1357395874 423296 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357397992 366569 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-ell1-h-28-1.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357397992 537337 :greyooze!~greyknigh@dab-ell1-h-28-1.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357398015 708961 :greyooze!~greyknigh@dab-ell1-h-28-1.dab.02.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1357398016 36950 :GreyKnight!~greyknigh@dab-ell1-h-28-1.dab.02.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1357398081 217538 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357398138 462273 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357398162 422230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1357398309 667609 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357398341 302998 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-02-18.txt:14:56:47: factor, by the way, is an excellent language made by someone who knows what they're doing and it's also fast, and has great unicode support and tons of libraries/ < 1357398507 991878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure why you're quoting something I said in 2009 without context
< 1357398620 392777 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case Sgeo comes by later and realises he has a kindred spirit! < 1357398626 146903 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joined by your love of Factor <3 < 1357398667 371927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo was around in 2009 < 1357398673 423348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure sgeo even liked factor in 2009 < 1357398690 6268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway factor is an abandoned/dead language so it doesn't really matter what anyone thought of it in 2009 < 1357398707 78072 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been a release since Slava left < 1357398755 864855 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I got the impression Sgeo's love affair with Factor was a recent thing < 1357398758 82486 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slava left? < 1357398769 974314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: it goes in cycles < 1357398787 693007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I didn't know, but that's mostly irrelevant < 1357398821 979387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway they have a very nice environment. much nicer than the language really < 1357398827 91536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and good libraries < 1357398841 748067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never had the community though < 1357398870 527995 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Racket have a community? < 1357398881 56130 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when PLT lose interest or retire < 1357398884 562208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more than factor < 1357398891 428984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :groups don't really retire... < 1357398928 440351 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the composition of the group has changed since it formed < 1357399218 787907 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c00kiemon5ter: how about iAreSee? < 1357399294 100244 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just end up writing eval for Qoppa and directing #%app to call it < 1357399299 177826 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than trying to use Racket eval < 1357399302 145449 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so, regarding Qoppa as a Racket language. Is this sort of level-mixing common with other Racket languages? If so how do other people solve it? < 1357399310 214551 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're talking about it too, excellent :-) < 1357399344 940496 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I figured you were already going to use qoppa-eval? < 1357399371 651447 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357399385 520059 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't kmc's original version do that anyway? < 1357399389 525573 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the main solution for impedance mismatches between Racket languages and the Racket environment is not to design a Racket language with an impedance mismatch. It doesn't seem well designed for arbitrary languages. < 1357399406 181448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, pretty much, which kind of makes anything I do boring, doesn't it? < 1357399550 445208 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean is, is it common for Racket languages to want to be able to mix that language with arbitrary Racket code? < 1357399550 957772 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know) < 1357399562 4214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1357399582 144437 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least call Racket functions and have Racket functions be able to call their functions < 1357399593 92309 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case surely somebody has already solved this problem and we can investigate how they did it :-) < 1357399613 229012 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Scribble. It's an un-lisp-looking language for documentation that has easy notation for calling Racket functions < 1357399668 352648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, the problem is mostly "how to do it given the the nature of Qoppa functions" not "The mechanics of how to have a Racket language call functions from a different Racket language" < 1357399784 774367 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the third step of their foolang->racket->foolang is probably always going to be a function, right? So they don't need to worry about whether or not to evaluate what they're passing in the last step, they just always do < 1357400156 378829 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much any Racket language is a possibly customized reader, and a bunch of definitions including definitions of macros that are implicit < 1357400177 832829 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ 1 2) -> (#%app + 1 2) for example assuming + is not a macro < 1357400207 350329 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also #%module-begin which surrounds the whole program, #%datum which is around any piece of data < 1357400209 15781 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1357400874 435997 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too tired to manage this
< 1357400874 700493 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is Zepto documented anywhere? The wiki only seems to have ZeptoBasic < 1357400936 365232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #%module-begin thing means I could just take what's passed into it and give it to qoppa-eval < 1357400942 483633 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory < 1357400955 110136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: no < 1357400956 912191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then interop with Racket might be problematic < 1357401192 887961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you actually implement it? < 1357401383 683676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1357401560 692138 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell1-h-28-3.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1357401570 69257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Presumptively, every module level form except provide and require should be function applications in Qoppa < 1357401584 99646 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just redefining #%app should work perfectly, I think < 1357401879 514161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the dialect of Scheme kmc was using not have named let? < 1357401946 686660 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357401987 377089 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, I'm likely to take kmc's implementation and modify it to my needs < 1357402091 222377 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not sure that it's possible to mix higher-order Racket functions in with Qoppa like this. The HOF can, in theory, produce *any* structure and push it into the Qoppa operative, and that structure might well look exactly like your Qoppa internals, whether tagged or whatever. < 1357402091 448094 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless there's some way to tag a structure outside of what Racket can access? But the whole thing's done in Racket so presumably not :-/ < 1357402091 618692 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although hm are those "dye-pack" things any use here? < 1357402237 612570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racket has a module system and opaque structs that means I don't have to expose the means of creating my internal structures to other Racket modules < 1357402277 12391 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that @CompSciFact tweets not facts about computer science but platitudes about software engineering < 1357402285 819539 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus my quest continues :/ < 1357402329 157133 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: right, but can another module *accidentally* create an identical structure? < 1357402338 431845 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, is an implementation of Qoppa as a Racket language still interesting if it's heavily based on your code? < 1357402341 300631 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight, no < 1357402378 329818 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, non-duck-typed structures? Hmm may work then... < 1357402384 418184 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sure, why not? < 1357402394 280209 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1357402400 271309 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it if it would make you happy < 1357402405 37328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Your quest is to find a Twitter account that tweets facts about computer science? < 1357402419 340933 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit more general than that < 1357402428 240901 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FACT: bugs reproduce when you're not looking < 1357402671 586623 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.211.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357402694 882283 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357402698 815777 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so, if all qoppa-operatives and qoppa-lists which are passed around are wrapped up in a struct, there is no way for Racket to "fake" one of them, even accidentally < 1357402700 600606 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if a regular list comes in on any parameter, Qoppa knows "hey, Racket must have passed this value in! I'd better convert it." < 1357402857 905475 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(qoppa-eval would be doing that work I guess) < 1357402877 246307 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking the only special qoppa structure are qoppa-operatives < 1357402909 493042 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They contain the actual "function" of the operative, and also an extra piece of code telling Racket how to treat it as a function < 1357402921 571796 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When qoppa-eval calls it, it knows to unpack the structure to get to the operative < 1357402949 273457 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a Racket function tries to call it, it goes through that extra piece of code, which wraps all arguments in quote < 1357402971 983050 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before passing it on to the inner structure < 1357402995 925479 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's neat it can do that < 1357403021 903944 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more or less how keyword arguments in Racket work, actually < 1357403060 307527 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If #%app sees keywords in what is passed into it, it tries to treat its first argument as a special keyword-accepting function < 1357403071 648926 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is some sort of structure wrapping around a function < 1357403082 984378 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lua has something similar, you can define a "call" metafield on any object which tells the system how to call it as if a function) < 1357403107 518821 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it #%app doesn't see keywords, it treats it like a normal Racket function, and that function knows to pass 0 keywords to the function stored inside the structure < 1357403142 491553 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1357403147 396117 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this might just be crazy enough to work < 1357403222 879142 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, not only is this a particularly poor example of a bf derivative, it's actually *less useful* than brainf**k proper since it doesn't provide input capabilities: http://esolangs.org/wiki/There_Once_was_a_Fish_Named_Fred < 1357403243 784568 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, we need a bricking on aisle three < 1357403280 688330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... http://phantom-hoover.tumblr.com/ already covered that < 1357403349 231728 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1357403359 286059 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it won't hurt to brick him twice anyway < 1357403430 483685 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean it won't hurt *us*. Obviously it'll hurt *him*.) < 1357403496 133306 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tucks BF-RLE away somewhere
< 1357403671 994173 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't bfjoust already do that? < 1357403745 131021 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RLE, I mean) < 1357403772 138705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a notation for repetition, if that's what you mean. < 1357403831 633765 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF-RLE may be older than BF Joust, let me check < 1357403862 205424 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably it's not "plain RLE" since you can repeat more than just a single symbol. < 1357403904 93473 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF-RLE is 2006, BF Joust is 2008 < 1357404012 229941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But are there BF implementations that accept RLE'd input that predate BF-RLE? One would think so. < 1357404071 883588 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357404125 534772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1357404126 142739 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell < 1357404131 860017 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^how rot13 < 1357404136 689242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rot13 < 1357404137 283468 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+14<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>>+5[<-5>-]<2-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+ < 1357404144 19080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, that wasn't the best example. < 1357404148 782513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show pow2 < 1357404149 418205 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+2[[<+7[-<+7>]>[-<+<+>>]<[->+<]<-2.[-]<]+4[->+8<]>.[-]>>[-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>-8>+>[->+>+<2]+>>[<2->>[-]]<2[>+<-]>[-<+>]<4-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<-[>+2<[-]]]]]]]]]]<[->+<]>+>[-<+>]>>]<3] < 1357404151 621786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show welcome < 1357404159 208145 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,]+14[>+8>+4>+7>+6<4-]>2+2.-26.>2+3.+14.+7.<+.>+3.-2.<+2.<.<+4.>3+2.<2.>2+5.<+3.-3.<.+73.+5.>2.<.>-2.-4.<-4.<2.>-5.>2+.-.<.>-2.<-65.<-.+13.>2-10.<.>+4.<2-6.<-2.>2.+69.<2+.>.+5.>.<-2.>+4.>-3.-67.<2-2.<-.-3.-8.>+2.<-6.>-5..>.<+.<+6.>3.<2-2.>-8.<+2.<.>+7.>.<2.-2.>3.<3-.>2+4.<-2.>+4.-2.<-5.>2.<-6.<.>+3.>.<3.+.>+2.<+7.>-.+10.<+.>2+.<2+.>-5.>2+.-.<-31.<2+.>-2.>2.<2-5.+2.+3.>+31.>.<+4.<-4.-8.>+6.+3.<2-2.>-5.>+2.<2-4.+6.-.>3+12.-12. < 1357404166 756849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a good one. < 1357404170 988189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fungot is 2008 too.) < 1357404171 937508 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a completely unoptimized fnord brainfuck interpreter that's running in a screen window on colin. < 1357404228 513382 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357404233 257954 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: with RLE, right? < 1357404234 312821 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: reuters has a bit of greek history and literature < 1357404238 160942 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also who's colin) < 1357404249 697302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: It was the hostname of one of my computers. < 1357404360 442089 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: Back when I had a HHGTTG hostname theme. (I had at least colin, agrajag, hactar, sesefras, bistromath, epun, ... I think I've forgotten the rest. The domain name I currently use (zem.fi) is still from there.) < 1357404437 458975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and random. < 1357404456 859134 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I wondered about Zem actually < 1357404477 926907 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-66-100.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357404531 999494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We live quiet retired lives in the swamp, where we are content to flollop and vollue and regard the wetness in a fairly floopy manner. Some of us are killed, but all of us are called Zem, so we never know which and globbering is thus kept to a minimum." < 1357404552 225031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aiNH < 1357404630 78714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice TRANSCRIPTION ERROR. < 1357404708 329600 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives Wow that's a big list < 1357404756 187953 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite liked the mattresses. In fact I have one of my own. In fact I'm lying on it right now! < 1357404779 286755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're lying on a DEAD THING. < 1357404807 56524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category:Brainfuck equivalents "only" has 18 pages. < 1357404807 980994 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been properly taxidermied IT'S FINE < 1357404834 964043 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 22 for me :-S < 1357404860 621895 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol that was awesome fizzie :D < 1357405371 826112 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357405391 12129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So awesome fizzie didn't even write it. < 1357405402 699386 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1357405565 153292 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1357405579 172889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have been quite a bit less awesome, had I written it. < 1357405970 47749 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.136.184 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357406165 913137 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357406176 246640 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357407145 7845 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You'll have to read Atlas Shrugged to appreciate this really obscure reference." <-- uh no thanks I have something really important to do in the other room >_> < 1357407344 510768 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telemachus Sneezed < 1357407661 858870 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-142-102.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1357409205 838709 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chuck Moore has been working on this: http://greenarraychips.com < 1357409246 275549 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the first item listed under http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas#Ideas_related_to_esoteric_operating_systems.2C_esoteric_processors_and_esoteric_computers < 1357409269 614362 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we can list the GA chip as a concrete example of an esoteric computer? It's certainly unusual < 1357409597 945525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.lang.forth has been all about the GA144 for the last year or so. < 1357409610 29541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone has really figured out what to use it for (and how) yet. < 1357409638 422360 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah same here < 1357409655 617422 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks like one of things that "this is bound to be incredibly useful once we figure it out" < 1357409669 444418 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/out/out!/ < 1357410266 558140 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :leverage < 1357410339 516894 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give me a GA144 and a place to stand, and I can move the universe! < 1357410465 51855 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1357410554 489712 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357412439 632532 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1357413108 333949 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.248.124 QUIT :Quit: --> < 1357413902 812995 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1357413969 846895 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1357414382 879233 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357415345 371201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1357416267 767145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't really like the game Monopoly either, but it isn't really too bad; however, when I played we usually changed some rules, such as if you decide not to buy something it just stays and is not auctioned, and that if you land on free parking you are allowed to teleport. < 1357416301 206502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr one part of david morgan-mar's flame against monopoly was that the house rules people tended to add usually made it even worse < 1357416309 871470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly that was part of the forum discussion < 1357416387 984439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc the house rules tend to prolong the game by giving people ways out from going bankrupt) < 1357416422 343186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the least awkward way of playing monopoly is to follow the written rules _strictly_ < 1357416489 784877 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you go bankrupt, you're out of the game? and the objective of monopoly is to go bankrupt last? < 1357416492 965526 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, like adding dept? < 1357416514 797923 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can lend money from the bank < 1357416515 379123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think borrowing from the bank was mentioned < 1357416529 476216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1357416532 511174 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1357416534 32673 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually won once by doing that < 1357416552 826539 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall having any house rules in monopoly, I guess we just never played it < 1357416554 161113 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you generally lose when you have to < 1357416620 912737 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357416628 107597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw here is the famous rant http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2623.html < 1357416635 571678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't change the fact that you spend most of the game waiting for whoever's in the lead to win. < 1357416644 759521 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1357416650 402039 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the soviet made a communist monopoly ... or maybe they just reinterpreted it as a game of being evil < 1357416668 789135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well monopoly was originally a game of being evil iirc < 1357416672 333345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it was a ~morality game~ < 1357416673 620311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: iirc monopoly _started_ as an anti-capitalist game < 1357416674 930454 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: /monopoly/ is perfectly fine for communists :p < 1357416678 659650 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence you know < 1357416680 67441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name < 1357416686 765416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monopolies aren't generally considered good things < 1357416708 881447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was called something else back when it was thinly-veiled criticism of landowners. < 1357416713 972906 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realizes the name has a meaning when you treat it as a word
< 1357416759 970843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Most Novel and Entertaining Game of Property and Rent, because people in the past were crap at naming things. < 1357416797 122637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm pretty sure the wikipedia page tells all that stuff < 1357416840 806133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how the Victorians hadn't quite figured out you were meant to name books something shorter than their contents. < 1357417081 866831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Phantom_Hoover: I like how the Victorians hadn't quite figured out you were meant to name books something shorter than their contents. < 1357417085 428127 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :896) Phantom_Hoover: I like how the Victorians hadn't quite figured out you were meant to name books something shorter than their contents. < 1357417113 628280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i really had forgotten how epic that rant was < 1357417114 769560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: People in the present are, too. < 1357417163 392832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Unfoldy, eh? < 1357417193 999942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: blah, eh? < 1357417203 660512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh!!! < 1357417255 737838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, but at least we're terse! < 1357417350 632443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :play adfb now! < 1357417372 987184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks mashing his keyboard should have giving a better name than _that_
< 1357417379 44011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*given < 1357417395 102087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjygn < 1357417439 151764 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjygn is nice < 1357417473 953070 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1357417873 768975 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjygn is a liar and a thief < 1357417878 451084 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.62 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the day of zeux started a couple of hours ago, you should participate < 1357418491 348392 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1357418653 912019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is the mathematical structure called, which has the successor and predecessor (inverse of each other), and total ordering according to the successor and predecessor, but not such thing as a designated zero point? < 1357418685 399548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to relate to the integers in a similar way to how affine spaces relate to vector spaces... < 1357418716 243407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think monopoly should be played as a nomic where you can spend money on lobbyists to make the rules more favorable to you < 1357418848 320088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_homogeneous_space seems to include your concept if you use the integers as the group < 1357418870 284326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(found that from Affine space) < 1357418926 270169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well there's no total ordering mentioned but you can easily define it < 1357419060 725232 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :some order theorists write things like -N + N < 1357419085 621090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK < 1357419087 513282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with omegas rather < 1357419103 446901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh like that yes < 1357419108 464714 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-\omega + \omega < 1357419116 674529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's only the order < 1357419164 886014 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a big fan of embedding orders in things < 1357419190 214600 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm orders < 1357419225 880060 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357419309 493675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that sounds really interesting actually < 1357419313 121870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: should have that as an agora contest < 1357419337 406073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_homogeneous_space seems to include your concept if you use the integers as the group < 1357419337 737322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357419387 674030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 crazy talk < 1357419387 847574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1357419804 53315 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1357419927 158494 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1357419937 227865 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1357420463 268213 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : i think monopoly should be played as a nomic where you can spend money on lobbyists to make the rules more favorable to you // this is the most brilliant thing I've ever heard < 1357420976 444478 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357421070 931804 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: RE: Monomicopoly: I approve, please make it happen thx < 1357421150 15744 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, that was DMM's biggest complaint as I recall. I basically agree with him. However nomic monopoly is likely to be fun in spite of this :-) < 1357421484 261655 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric : i think monopoly should be played as a nomic where you can spend money on lobbyists to make the rules more favorable to you | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1357421488 844708 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S THAT IMPORTANT < 1357421538 556014 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, so do you have one player be the government (and not play the game proper) so that you can keep who changed the rules secret? < 1357421772 513294 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could always start with open voting and then introduce secrecy as a rules change :-) < 1357421813 888023 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about nomics is not needing to have a "perfect" set of rules before you start ;-) < 1357421815 489716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: as i just reread it, i can say that you recalled wrong - he just had a single paragraph noting that house rules made things worse, before going on to explain why it was crap even without them < 1357421818 177658 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't the other way be more realistic? everybody shouting about making [government] more transparent and all < 1357421839 317578 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, this would make a much better satire of capitalism than the original < 1357421853 876207 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you may have a point < 1357421881 403820 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well! It was *a* point in his essay anyway. < 1357421890 91413 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I barely read any explanations at all < 1357421914 571942 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe he just keeps repeating "monopoly is bad it is so bad it is terribly bad please don't play it" without giving any argument < 1357421923 691352 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/barely/hardly < 1357421934 581441 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: let me guess, you gave up reading after the first half? :P < 1357421961 494542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or before reaching the second, rather < 1357421968 438964 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read in diagonal (can you say that in english?) because I was hoping he would finally give some explanations < 1357421977 660059 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't see any < 1357421987 698594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no you cannot say that in english. < 1357421989 835032 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357422045 370599 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "I skimmed it" if I understand you correctly < 1357422054 637954 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1357422064 424233 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say "I skipped it" but that sounded so wrong < 1357422103 843844 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess his point is that there are lot of games that are way better than monopoly < 1357422133 811562 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my boardgame-playing mates would agree with that < 1357422169 685993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it's mainly blowing off steam; i think the third last paragraph is the thing that comes closest to explaining something. < 1357422173 633778 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about comonopoly < 1357422176 960923 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that playing monopoly with kids is bad because that's basically "hiding" other games to the people you're playing monopolywith < 1357422195 96386 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: satire of soviet economics? < 1357422220 192836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah get them hooked on junta and diplomacy instead, good family values < 1357422233 553215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1357422244 666245 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I loved games so much when I was a kid, that I would agree on playing anything when my parents were ok to play something < 1357422251 305164 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that reminds me, how is Settlers of Catan on the imperialism front < 1357422274 120561 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still do) < 1357422276 75695 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a sci-fi version of Diplomacy set in space once. The motto was "In the grim darkness of the future, there is only treachery and backstabbing." < 1357422296 398922 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*fairly accurate*) < 1357422390 715367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: in comonopoly, soviet economics satirize YOU! < 1357422436 520707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cackles maniackally
< 1357422437 237218 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just read red plenty -_- < 1357422531 646384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is copumpkin when i need someone to understand my brilliant pun :( < 1357422570 873468 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, wordplay < 1357422581 788470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure of the difference himself, anyway
< 1357422627 820566 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you did more than just invert the arrows there < 1357422641 477696 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm, i can't find any publications of yours on dblp < 1357422645 652724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: IT WORKS ON BOTH LEVELS < 1357422651 584842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is dblp < 1357422677 805793 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they collect publications < 1357422684 160882 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's not that old < 1357422705 102079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1357422711 809840 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/pers/hd/s/Salo:Ville.html here's mine < 1357422727 372208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like dblp < 1357422729 705088 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nice < 1357422734 628525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1357422802 494195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/villesalo < 1357422805 424110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko is this you < 1357422835 500350 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1357422848 21199 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's villesalo.org < 1357422852 955729 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of people with this name < 1357422854 456938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is? < 1357422880 999747 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has the best homepage out of all the villesalos i know < 1357422903 209809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you still have a homepage < 1357422903 492031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the *GASP* was for the complete revelation of your name, of course) < 1357422910 664449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357422925 538170 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i like to reveal it now and then < 1357422943 873128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we've known his name for ages < 1357422955 858344 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's not exactly a secret < 1357422992 369695 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like unmasking a superhero < 1357422995 103073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know, but i don't recall it's been stated outright in channel < 1357423025 171695 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :has though. < 1357423046 969047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess it's something adults tend to do, i notice tswett changed the attribution on /// < 1357423084 345331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's all about fame at this point < 1357423111 63871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day oerjan will tell us his real name < 1357423118 560937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVAR < 1357423144 958049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't even have a secret middle name, his parents were too lazy to include one
< 1357423150 492556 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1357423153 161536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan q johannsen < 1357423157 731358 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@fluttershy.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1357423159 355701 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan McOerjan < 1357423172 831275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on < 1357423174 176654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1357423176 825938 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ørjan ørjansen < 1357423190 244306 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ørjan ø. ørjansen < 1357423208 815206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star651 is pretty great. < 1357423212 998148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best things in life: http://sprunge.us/iTDc < 1357423227 843238 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he the one who thought phantom-hoover.tumblr.com was serious? < 1357423262 428023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I finally bothered to disassemble the libcms_cli.so:cmsCli_authenticate function of my VDSL2 box. It has hardcoded user:pass combos of "root:public" and "ztedebug:ztedebug".) < 1357423268 64070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes < 1357423276 849399 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, he's the greatest < 1357423277 950183 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: O_O < 1357423280 394158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ørjansen is much rarer than Ørjan. < 1357423281 910954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom-hoover.tumblr.com isn't serious? < 1357423282 117008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Det er 3, 2, 1 eller 0 menn som har Ørjan som første fornavn, og Ørjansen som etternavn." < 1357423290 970624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you having a nice day < 1357423296 254691 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's as serious as you want it to be < 1357423307 787448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Clearly you need to have more children. < 1357423311 528838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming "sen" means "son".) < 1357423312 351784 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, update it you fucker < 1357423320 622366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ssb.no search isn't quite so accurate when there are that few results. < 1357423322 30891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess I am, according to the router. < 1357423331 359851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will Phantom_Hoover's blog cover the upcoming new documentary < 1357423331 529928 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I can never find a BF derivative that's fun to talk about! < 1357423344 246909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentary? < 1357423344 695779 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if the documentary gets more steam < 1357423353 467465 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do you want us to make a new one for you :-I < 1357423359 821425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are three or less with Ørjan as their first name, and Ørjansen as last name." < 1357423360 503324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, do a long piece on why ook! is the only tolerable bf derivative < 1357423369 495236 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was thinking that < 1357423377 494820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's not tolerable... < 1357423394 802034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i am pretty sure it is maximally steamful < 1357423414 476082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yeah it is, because it was a mildly amusing joke < 1357423418 155259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: can i write guest posts under an anonymous pseudonym (due to my high profile status in the esolangs community) < 1357423441 280905 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, everyone's writing under the name Phantom Hoover so far < 1357423449 858719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be silly, only Phantom_Hoover is < 1357423468 692943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea that over the years "Phantom Hoover" stops being fully a person and starts being more a character < 1357423476 901266 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Ook! more tolerable than the others < 1357423481 18125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -sen is indeed etymologically "son", but norway changed to inherit family names by law something like 18th or 19th century < 1357423484 252265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :until Phantom_Hoover himself either changes nick entirely or stops truly existing as a person in some kind of metaphysical way < 1357423488 114680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all we have left is a bourbaki < 1357423503 205928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm cool with this < 1357423510 86396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By law! < 1357423517 305280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think it may have been before we split from denmark) < 1357423518 700801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ridiculous. < 1357423522 18922 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the new Bourbaki --- dammit elliott stop ninjaing me < 1357423529 551485 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, change your family name to ørjansen, and then have many children. < 1357423532 579796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same effect. < 1357423544 741895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even better if the children propagage the name further.) < 1357423550 255564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or you could call them all ørjan.) < 1357423553 294553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there may be sufficiently few people by that name that i cannot legally change to it :P < 1357423576 292689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1357423583 967853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't change your name arbitrarily? < 1357423590 495661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard an interesting theory for why finnish surnames end in -nen < 1357423608 602832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: rare surnames are protected, you need permission from every holder to change to it < 1357423613 664287 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps call your children Ørjan1, Ørjan2, Ørjan3, ... < 1357423626 970769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the church books they just took the father's name and added -sen to make the surname, because that's how it was done in sweden i guess < 1357423653 331091 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make some kind of pact to name all children of all future generations of ørjans "ørjan ørjansen" < 1357423655 828286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somethingsen sounds like the finnish genitive of somethingnen < 1357423676 455018 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there might be slight confusion for generations with more than one offspring, but shit happens < 1357423717 130799 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that story was incredibly boring when told in english < 1357423723 685822 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i'd've thought of that < 1357423752 769204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why is Ook! more tolerable than the others <-- because bf derivatives weren't a worn out concept when it was invented < 1357423756 545323 :greyooze!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357423765 668034 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sweden also switched to inheriting family names instead of making patronyms a long time ago < 1357423770 104295 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo long time < 1357423775 411810 :greyooze!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you have high hopes for them the children maybe Ørjan^2, Ørjan^3, ...) < 1357423840 929289 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1357423842 157610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: except swedes add -son not -sen < 1357423854 7447 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they do that hundreds of years ago as well? < 1357423862 80398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :greyooze: Ackermann(Ørjan,2) < 1357423892 379687 :GreyKnight!~GK@82.132.249.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357423903 93027 :greyooze!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1357423911 777469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the phonology change from o to e happened only in danish originally, then spread to norway because of common writing system at the time < 1357423922 418730 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the swedes were never in on it < 1357423979 845617 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they were originally the swodos) < 1357424010 43334 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interesting. at least i didn't have this misconception for too long as i heard this like a week ago. < 1357424037 748204 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nen is also a diminutive suffix but that makes no sense < 1357424038 292711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :misconceptionnen < 1357424175 418075 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it -nen that the finnish names end with? I thought it was -lainen < 1357424247 651582 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more commonly used for when you're from somewhere < 1357424262 722137 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ruotsalainen = swedish < 1357424268 395496 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wally Wessexlainen < 1357424278 292023 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1357424286 450933 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wessexläinen though < 1357424293 281004 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ørjanlainen = people who come from ørjan? < 1357424307 835233 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goatkcd.com/1156/sfw 1,001 Household Uses For Goatse < 1357424309 56114 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I got a ¨ < 1357424342 48299 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :vowel harmony, aou => lainen, äöy => läinen. if you find neither you default to läinen < 1357424366 636219 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how making the goatse line-art apparently renders it "safe for work" < 1357424380 547788 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus sometimes if you have aou first and then a lot of i and e you forget you're supposed to put lainen and put läinen instead < 1357424413 297316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaieeieieieeläinen < 1357424437 646230 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds fine < 1357424467 970172 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually considering sprinkling some random ¨s around when I wrote that but didn't. I guess I should have. < 1357424485 259255 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(then there'd've been a non-zero chance of me getting it right) < 1357424556 814637 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's things like "analyysi" < 1357424608 618898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just fucked up < 1357424621 241990 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1357424632 372441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Olumpialaiset. < 1357424642 707172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that with two 'p's? < 1357424651 518009 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses that means "analysis"
< 1357424679 640873 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olumppijalajset < 1357424748 756703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls wikipedia had that as an example of something that might or might not get finnishified
< 1357424756 125397 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irländläinen < 1357424813 225274 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it'll get finnishified, i don't know an alternative and analysoida (analyze) is in everyday use. < 1357424824 76798 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what does finnishification mean < 1357424829 202299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the olympia stuff < 1357424866 87446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically rural hicks pronounce it with u < 1357424882 739347 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1357424890 288935 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "irländläinen" valid? < 1357424896 368808 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION crosses fingers
< 1357424903 708307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think finns are big on "ndl" < 1357424912 621573 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1357424921 113565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :irlantilainen < 1357424931 765636 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a => lainen < 1357424955 467730 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wasn't even close
< 1357424967 27869 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :d is often changed to t < 1357424975 664376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: basically the root affects the suffix, not the other way around < 1357425043 321292 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan: I found "irländsk" for Irish and guessed that the ä would stay < 1357425056 844279 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then picked -läinen based on that < 1357425078 421406 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"irländsk" is swedish though, not finnish < 1357425078 650132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: it's ok, just train on distinguishing Mämmi from Maamme, and you should be fine. also "irländsk" is swedish i believe < 1357425079 821040 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay apparently Ireland is "irland" < 1357425099 643091 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I got mixed up about what language we were talking about @_@ < 1357425111 283915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1357425116 6350 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ireland is irlanti < 1357425125 593607 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1357425136 3861 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a word cannot end in a d < 1357425152 982796 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay if I'd gotten that I would have correctly guessed irlantilainen so I will count this as a moral victory < 1357425153 252685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :irlantid < 1357425154 833036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now ???? ? < 1357425158 616333 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :irlantidi < 1357425164 271452 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just add an i. < 1357425166 469943 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's fine < 1357425175 625659 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irlantidid < 1357425177 899481 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1357425191 524805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irlanti did it. < 1357425192 912193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :irlantilainen illithids < 1357425216 379240 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've just updated Phantom_Hoover's Tumblr, but my internet's playing up, can someone double check? < 1357425222 448343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1357425235 275468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1357425239 943917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1357425243 160534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't < 1357425243 607568 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should've written it as a single long sentence though < 1357425272 102046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although even LOLCODE is a thousand times better than a brainfuck derivative < 1357425274 773083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not convinced this is true < 1357425309 659117 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's hyperbole, and the point is brainfuck derivatives suck < 1357425316 305073 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay new rant < 1357425323 327957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: btw you forgot the tabs < 1357425324 737644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tags < 1357425348 173592 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add some in a minute < 1357425392 422185 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: The other day on the channel I came up with BRAINLISPCODE, a LOLCODE-style LISP with an embedded bf derivative. I thought you should know. :-I < 1357425398 520858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 combinations? < 1357425400 618357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's awful. < 1357425468 403935 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your face but do we go on about it? < 1357425498 283639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Taneb: The other day on the channel I came up with BRAINLISPCODE, a LOLCODE-style LISP with an embedded bf derivative. I thought you should know. :-I < 1357425501 754298 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :897) Taneb: The other day on the channel I came up with BRAINLISPCODE, a LOLCODE-style LISP with an embedded bf derivative. I thought you should know. :-I < 1357425574 516060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i suggest striking out "a thousand times" and replacing it with "ten times", then strike that out and put "50 percent" < 1357425678 976806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1357425717 322949 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :support this < 1357425762 994126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, oh wow that's brilliant < 1357425786 189171 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`like < 1357425787 317190 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: like: not found < 1357425800 759508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1357425806 297724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1357425810 993442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let now a k b = k (b <> a); later f k m a = k (m <> f a); run l = l id mempty < 1357425812 804912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1357425818 989671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you figure out how to make map work? < 1357425828 618976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :map :: (m -> n) -> ... m ... -> ... n ... < 1357425924 499553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't < 1357425929 537476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a contravariant m < 1357425934 284846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1357425935 255946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :covariant < 1357425942 10318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious < 1357425944 57799 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :applied general abstract nonsense < 1357425944 984729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :djinn will tell you the same < 1357425961 182236 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's ... < 1357426045 456422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: besides what elliott said, that would require me having any idea what now and later do in the first place < 1357426067 949492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t now < 1357426069 281725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid m => m -> (m -> t) -> m -> t < 1357426071 659055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t later < 1357426073 119955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid m => (t1 -> m) -> (m -> t) -> m -> t1 -> t < 1357426079 750835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> run (now "x = " . later show . now ", y = " . later show) 2 4 < 1357426081 935563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "x = 2, y = 4" < 1357426150 804627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish Haskell had syntax for "comment out the rest of the file". < 1357426156 931962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving {-s is annoying. < 1357426223 235740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make a quasiquote hth :P < 1357426235 171114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quasiquotes need terminators... < 1357426239 875072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking like __END__ < 1357426247 639513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but you don't need to move them < 1357426276 999584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand < 1357426289 775560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :[q| ... [q| ... [q| ... |] would work perfectly. well, assuming you don't use a quasiquote for anything else. < 1357426311 644859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just leave a -} at the end of the file? < 1357426316 83727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you nesting these or what? < 1357426324 758156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Right, nesting. < 1357426332 153661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also moving the {- to the end is annoying. < 1357426332 382173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So don't nest quotes. < 1357426335 596122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, you can leave --} at the end of file < 1357426337 123919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to just delete the line. < 1357426344 610226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, clever :) < 1357426348 812480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually do that, thanks! < 1357426358 388825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan++ < 1357426796 298598 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, end comments with //*/ < 1357426879 238929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1357427015 366910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1357427018 666189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1357427062 228750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1357427063 523339 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Phantom_Hoover updated his Tumblr, finally < 1357427067 298963 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you check it out < 1357427078 411087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I thought that was you. < 1357427078 598158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider it my finest work to date < 1357427084 76328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1357427089 881575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1357427109 308118 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom-hoover.tumblr.com < 1357427186 984942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :protocol? < 1357427188 494588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http? < 1357427213 616268 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher obviously < 1357427215 340919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, looks like http < 1357427261 720862 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357427263 361592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what do you think of my BF derivatives? they're mostly along the lines of "using a language people know to explore the implications of a new idea" < 1357427274 727407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than "let's rename BF's commands and give it a bit of sugar" < 1357427286 822837 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357427287 897918 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357427290 899495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORGIVABLE < 1357427298 763441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1357427326 768111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: half of your brain gets to remain grey matter < 1357427333 349288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you're ok with the other half being brick < 1357427354 469662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree with this assessment < 1357427355 386126 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the brick is græy? < 1357427363 54103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bricks are no joking matter < 1357427369 886642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you seriously just typo æ? < 1357427371 18778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, Phantom_Hoover makes the rules < 1357427379 923325 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just being politically correct, man! < 1357427388 8157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott gets mad when I say "gray". < 1357427393 223519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, between US and UK English? < 1357427403 682302 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-ell2-h-15-1.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1357427411 881717 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1357427419 216108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :græy is scots, ye ken < 1357427421 816187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not *actually* correct. But what's actual correctness next to political correctness? < 1357427436 187797 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits shachaf with a grey sword
< 1357427448 812341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what scots for "grey" actually is
< 1357427450 445772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway æ is about as easy to type as, saay, P < 1357427466 519941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gruy < 1357427496 20981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: altgr-a rather than shift-p? < 1357427498 590470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not real scots without at least one vowel change < 1357427505 945299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think P is a little easier because there are two shift keys in convenient locations < 1357427514 437090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one altgr and it's in a bit less of a convenient location < 1357427523 201587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-z < 1357427526 394195 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No TRUE Scotsman pronounces vowels. < 1357427529 726505 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"�"? < 1357427530 64161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and US keyboards have no altgr at all, apparently) < 1357427536 930156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, altgr-z is « < 1357427541 69220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how you type perl 6 < 1357427544 982328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My keyboard is a US keyboard. < 1357427556 477392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-[ is « < 1357427560 406638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my @numbers = «one two three four five six seven eight nine ten» < 1357427565 226135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but us keyboards don't have an altgr < 1357427573 809806 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357427576 230842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't know you were a keyboard. < 1357427580 864431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, and I forgot the semicolon < 1357427582 384150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1357427586 821934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's a non sequitur < 1357427590 855314 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My AltGr-[ is ¨ < 1357427593 362641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i feel sorry for those half-scottish half-hawaiian people < 1357427595 895661 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "us keyboards" < 1357427610 865056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just a bad pun then < 1357427617 562979 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A fun pun. < 1357427620 248319 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't found any æ on my us layout, but it's altgr-ä on the swedish layout < 1357427622 456972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: likewise < 1357427627 312462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how I type ö or whatever < 1357427629 242535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I have a US keyboard, I think. < 1357427633 218468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I'm in the US. < 1357427648 291709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This keyboard layout is shown as a little US flag. < 1357427652 582470 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in the land my grandmother was born! < 1357427674 846670 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For someone of my accent, I have very few grandparents born in the UK < 1357427678 209206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I'm in the land my grandmother was born, too. < 1357427684 734412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one of them. < 1357427692 110986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO "land" < 1357427698 394834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a big place, as elliott will tell you. < 1357427713 375651 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One in California, two in the Netherlands, one in England but he was raised by nuns < 1357427729 711397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a lot of grandmothers. < 1357427733 296065 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully Perl6 supports Unicode identifiers so I can do my @😻 = «one two three four five six seven eight nine ten»; < 1357427736 4794 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grandparents < 1357427742 781996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: yes, it does < 1357427749 28560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they need to be letter-like for use as variable names < 1357427750 822422 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1357427756 411382 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...damn < 1357427758 348089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you type »? < 1357427761 263213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :altgr-x? < 1357427762 655591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define arbitrary paren-like unicode for use as paren-like operators < 1357427764 507717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, altgr-x < 1357427764 678406 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1357427779 530110 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing about altgr is the name. < 1357427849 361950 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, elliott monqy Fiora Phantom_Hoover there was an update, I don't know w aht time it was < 1357427869 162968 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "you there gurl" one? < 1357427889 541922 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1357427897 137414 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1357427910 572383 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of just woke up. At around 6pm < 1357427982 698012 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357427997 546037 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's for when regular Alt isn't angry enough for you < 1357427999 335255 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, at least I can exploit the difference between my $𝖠 = 1; and my $A = 2; That should prove hilarious. < 1357428013 473349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :greyooze: You must be American. < 1357428023 998059 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even close. < 1357428025 156695 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1357428033 885211 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1357428036 713258 :greyooze!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net NICK :GreyKnight < 1357428043 180915 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you Finnish or Hexham-y? < 1357428056 240890 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope and nope, respectively < 1357428096 195943 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently italy is #1 in the world for having power plants connected to the Internet with default passwords < 1357428113 619677 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? the news keeps telling me that's the american midwest < 1357428164 498809 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1357428171 358166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "SCADA Strangelove" talk says it's Italy < 1357428171 725708 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1357428172 37770 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-24-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1357428172 208943 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1357428175 828828 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :US also does quite poorly of course < 1357428181 832515 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what number? < 1357428186 165754 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't said < 1357428193 225517 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-17-59-127.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1357428193 924234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1357428201 380672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 54% of vulnerabilities were in europe < 1357428205 947466 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother, i need exactitudes in incompetence < 1357428206 621670 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to 39% in north america < 1357428222 630959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I hope it's at least some kind of .*xham, in any case. < 1357428236 590627 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i wonder if there's been anything big since the french airforce grounded themselves from that one virus back in... was that last year? < 1357428242 539 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is irlantilainen
< 1357428282 114429 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here are the numbers: http://scadastrangelove.blogspot.com/2012/11/scada-safety-in-numbers.html < 1357428293 201770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we have here anyone from Wrexham? That sounds like it's the more hard-core version of Hexham. < 1357428316 617480 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1357428350 508813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind that just wrecks stuff. < 1357428356 860840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1357428405 799494 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Think of a monad as a spacesuit full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. Now, you can't put oranges in the space suit or the nuclear waste falls in the ocean, *but* the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need." < 1357428411 599597 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^-- best metaphor < 1357428423 216099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no GreyKnight < 1357428426 148822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it < 1357428443 335293 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does it (what am I doing?)
< 1357428447 716672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: I don't quite think that metaphor is internally consistent < 1357428462 321828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: he's more likely reading a monad tutorial (perhaps a spoof one) than writing one < 1357428473 682224 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you put the waste in a spacesuit? < 1357428479 320678 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it's consistent or not, I don't understand what it's trying to say :-) < 1357428492 293462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: well, exactly < 1357428492 801776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote suite < 1357428493 193111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veinor says: a lot of the stuff I'm thinking of for programs to write is IOy and not really suited to Haskell. < 1357428496 680594 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that monads are like burritos < 1357428496 854131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1357428498 647236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote suite < 1357428498 996054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veinor says: a lot of the stuff I'm thinking of for programs to write is IOy and not really suited to Haskell. < 1357428504 916733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that the metaphor made no sense even independent of what it was trying to describe < 1357428513 679234 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote space suit < 1357428514 109778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes for this person. There are some things that I just don't know. < 1357428516 948022 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote space.suit < 1357428517 277145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dons says: Think of a monad as a spacesuite full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nucelar waste falls in the ocean, * < 1357428517 447915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but* the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need. < 1357428517 813605 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someone has a metaphor of monads as being like the Hotel California (I have no link sorry) < 1357428525 849693 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hex yourself before you wrex yourself < 1357428531 216989 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those are shitty analogies though < 1357428535 779488 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/most/ monads are not "one-way" < 1357428547 82151 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hotel california is itself a metaphor for drug addiction!!! < 1357428547 594147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a special property of the IO monad (and a few others) and focusing on it causes no end of confusion < 1357428560 600313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the identity monad is sometimes used for that property < 1357428579 274924 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: in other words, monads are like drugs. Don't do monads kids < 1357428582 895035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity is one of the worst examples. < 1357428589 66018 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, this doc puts USA ahead of Italy < 1357428593 548398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they clearly said Italy in the talk < 1357428601 443282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, the takeaway message is that we are all fucked < 1357428603 171188 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need the monadiest monad that ever monaded < 1357428612 364825 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say, the clear message is that fuck everything < 1357428617 318517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: identitiy is still a useful monad < 1357428623 631953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically what Perl taint is < 1357428631 235906 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only hope that the 55 year old nuclear reactor 2 blocks away from my house is too old to have SCADA < 1357428634 206757 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon the azerbaijani terrorists will destroy our railways with their cybernet < 1357428636 366593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1357428660 681876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: think about what the identity monad lets you do < 1357428662 933532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a lot, really < 1357428667 170615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can lift things to it, and that's about it < 1357428678 563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl taint is similar, you can lift things to it, but not do much else < 1357428682 852792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except that it's dynamic rather than static) < 1357428691 404592 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can also "unlift" things from it. < 1357428707 933680 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runIdentity (Identity 5) < 1357428709 831890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1357428712 900128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: only if you have a runIdentity or the like < 1357428721 718056 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :run perl taint??? < 1357428738 910964 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runTaint < 1357428740 98266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `runTaint' < 1357428743 405917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can write an untaint in Perl, but because taint exists mostly for security purposes, it's typically a bad idea to do so) < 1357428744 468029 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeTaint < 1357428759 28673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, you do have that, though. < 1357428760 157982 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mo' like unsafeUntaint I guess) < 1357428766 988142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there are two ways to untaint in Perl, and they're both nonobvious < 1357428776 863283 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you mean writing code which is polymorphic to work with any monad. < 1357428777 34060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ($untainted) = keys {$tainted => 1}; < 1357428781 798549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i can only hope that the 55 year old nuclear reactor 2 blocks away from my house is too old to have SCADA < 1357428785 147731 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :898) i can only hope that the 55 year old nuclear reactor 2 blocks away from my house is too old to have SCADA < 1357428796 431596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $tainted =~ /^(.*)$/; $untainted = $1; < 1357428811 116123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I don't mean that at all < 1357428852 617274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you just mean "keeping track of things for your own convenience"? < 1357428877 319378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can keep track of a value being "bad", or something. < 1357428888 819014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I don't know what Perl's taint is. I should probably have figured that out first. :-) < 1357428924 52987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much what perl's taint does < 1357428931 678142 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't understand this but here are my thoughts on it" :-) < 1357428934 266368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: perl's taint is intended to avoid accidental injection bugs in programs (SQL injection is easy to avoid in Perl, but things like shell injection might not be) < 1357428957 668699 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next stop, shachaf writes a taint tutorial comparing taint to an apple full of nuclear waste < 1357428959 474380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. That sounds like the situation I would make up a new type for a tainted thing. < 1357428961 225939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, any value that comes in from outside the program (user input, environment variables, etc) is of a tainted data type < 1357428973 422102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can convert untainted types to tainted types trivially < 1357428992 684155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all operations have tainted versions as well as untainted versions (which are spelled the same) < 1357429003 89308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Perl will bitch if you try to use tainted data for, e.g., system() or eval() < 1357429005 332196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity doesn't mean "tainted", and it does mean some other things sometimes, so that sounds like a bad use of the type to me. < 1357429017 809562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use Identity to implement taint, if you feel like it < 1357429027 439100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you really need to untaint data, you can < 1357429040 146137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather use a type that meant "tainted". < 1357429046 472603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it had the same implementation as Identity. < 1357429048 877201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intended method to untaint stuff is by matching it against a regexp that ensures it contains no evil characters < 1357429066 649047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, yes; you wouldn't use Identitiy itself, but it'd still be an identitiy monad < 1357429069 94539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one with a different name < 1357429078 479658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having the same implementation as Identity makes you an identity monad by definition < 1357429096 869295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1357429110 713015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case the "you can't get things out of it" property still doesn't really hold. < 1357429130 595610 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think runIdentity is an important part of Identity's interface. :-) < 1357429144 844285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this sounds like a fruitless discussion at this point. < 1357429182 439803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: Linux market share on Steam is more than 10% of Windows 8 market share on Steam < 1357429270 340253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I find this hilarious < 1357429369 516329 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the Linux share is small, or the Windows 8 share is big? < 1357429447 856002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreyKnight: because the Linux share is way bigger than it should be relative to the Windows 8 share < 1357429458 999969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how much more popular Windows is than Linux for gaming < 1357429464 469676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how there are basically no Linux games on Steam yet < 1357429470 807592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how Steam for Linux is still beta < 1357429485 984961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it speaks more to Windows 8 being unpopular than anything else < 1357429585 739299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: {-# LANGUAGE GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving -#} module Data.Tainted (Tainted) where newtype Tainted a = T a deriving (Monad) -- hth < 1357429595 157730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that type is useless < 1357429614 696521 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-1-5.dab.02.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1357429616 953474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is your comment terminator :P < 1357429619 313512 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you GeneralizedNewtypeDerive Monad? < 1357429621 664698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pragma terminator < 1357429632 898487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey he wanted a Tainted type you couldn't get things out of :P < 1357429636 70743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty generalized. < 1357429642 966834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1357429646 666318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good point < 1357429671 798138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: {-# LANGUAGE GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving -#} module Data.Tainted (Tainted) where import Control.Monad.Identity; newtype Tainted a = T (Identity a) deriving (Monad) -- hth < 1357429691 938519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aww :( < 1357429701 482870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that one < 1357429715 410265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ -#/ #-/ < 1357429718 842022 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1357429724 658184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought elliott meant the --}
< 1357429746 538521 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriving instance Monad Tainted < 1357429758 951810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you should use Tagged < 1357429761 139120 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or derive < 1357429768 451521 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc is confused about gerunds < 1357429769 492625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NOW WHAT < 1357429779 9976 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gerunds are hard, though. < 1357429781 362568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's still useless < 1357429784 168444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellørjan < 1357429787 985286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's just data Tainted a = BlackBox < 1357429793 544060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: what? deriving is the right syntax surely... < 1357429796 538038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with strictness < 1357429825 941983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: elliott: hey he wanted a Tainted type you couldn't get things out of :P < 1357429835 671267 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"perfect" < 1357430000 567894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t throw < 1357430002 154519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `throw' < 1357430011 458366 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=13414 < 1357430012 849230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t raise < 1357430014 358248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `raise' < 1357430016 906425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1357430021 20189 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got a documentation mistake fixed!
< 1357430030 200850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Exception e => e -> a < 1357430031 36104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base throw :: Exception e => e -> a < 1357430031 209568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception throw :: Exception e => e -> a < 1357430031 209729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException throw :: Exception e => e -> a < 1357430034 166761 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1357430040 568638 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: good job < 1357430052 59566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you like chocolate ice cream < 1357430061 969828 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk. i prefer vanilla. < 1357430073 922563 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate ice cream isnt my thingwhy do you ask < 1357430078 363295 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate ice cream is surprisingly ungood < 1357430080 818186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i realized it needs to be data not newtype, to close the evil fmap throw x `seq` loophole < 1357430095 541292 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanilla ice cream is: good: though < 1357430113 20077 :GreyKnight!~GK@dab-bas1-h-31-4.dab.02.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not updated on http://docs.racket-lang.org/htdp-langs/beginner.html#%28def._htdp-beginner._%28%28lib._lang/htdp-beginner..rkt%29._pi%29%29 yet though :-( < 1357430215 910542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what kind of sandbox lets you use IO exactly < 1357430258 486045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1357430331 759764 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codepad.org < 1357430360 203557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/160yie/json_isnt_a_javascript_subset/ < 1357430378 614190 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in a real sandbox it's really quite easy to move objects in and out of the sandbox < 1357430382 942340 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also wrong to talk about M Int as "a box you can't get the Int out of" because in most cases there is no Int inside to begin with!