2012-12-01: 00:09:24 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:09:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 00:42:46 what's the best chess AI that can run on an ATtiny13 with 64 bytes of RAM under standard time controls? 00:43:11 i think this would be more fun than writing a standard chess AI, and would require a lot more knowledge of the game 00:43:28 olsner: Neverhood! 00:44:45 so, a chess AI that hasn't room to store more than a handful of game boards. check. 00:44:52 (mate.) 00:45:54 (and that's with some clever compression.) 00:47:02 i guess you just need one game board and the ability to store undos to previous positions, to do a minimax thing. 00:48:11 yeah 00:49:09 ok, good luck. 00:50:53 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 00:51:09 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:52:07 you also have 1kB of read-only code+data 00:52:18 well actually you can write to it but sloooooowly and only a limited number of times 00:54:37 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 01:11:31 hi monqy 01:11:35 hi monqy 01:11:48 monqy: what does do 01:12:12 eally not much 01:12:49 eally? 01:12:57 hey elliott it's tomorrow now 01:13:01 Øh wëll. 01:13:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:15:20 What is standard time controls? 01:17:57 don't know 01:18:13 FIDE gives "90 minutes for the first 40 moves followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game with an addition of 30 seconds per move starting from move one" 01:20:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:34 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:31:18 Now I made a GEN routine "s3msample" for use with Csound. S3M loop point is one after the end, and I do not know if this is the case with Csound. 02:43:07 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:50:36 -!- sivoais has joined. 03:10:12 But it does not support Adlib instruments. Perhaps there could be a plugin or UDO which plays Adlib instruments? 03:18:19 -!- monqy has joined. 03:20:54 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 03:29:01 At least what I think would be a good way to design a file browser for UNIX computers would be, is, if you type in some wildcards and push some key to open the file list which you can click the left button to add to the command, and perhaps right button to preview (you can set up the preview command with another key). 03:29:07 What do you think? 03:36:54 * Fiora looks up, sees kmc's chess AI 03:37:29 64 bytes... I guess you could fit a few bitboards in that 03:39:01 That might be tricky though, I wonder if that's even enough room to store stuff for alpha/beta pruning 03:39:25 zzo038: yes your the ideas are good. but i really don't see why there must be a difference in the behaviour of a file browser and a http browser (for example). indeed i wonder why i need both.. 03:39:34 I guess I 03:39:42 I'd even be worried about running out of just, like, temp space. like doing move generation 03:41:10 hagb4rd2: Well, it is useful for different things, and there are other reasons too, why it should differ in whatever ways. 03:41:39 yeah, i think it would be a fun challenge because you would rely a lot more on heuristic tricks rather than tree search 03:41:50 I mean the terminal emulator would load it to allow you to select files and then the files you selected are put in the command line. 03:41:57 zzo38: i dunno. there should be a a good way to browse through any hierarchical grouped data 03:42:15 writing a chess AI sounds like a lot of fun 03:42:24 when i was judging students' othello AIs, it seemed that the ones that did reasonably well in very little time were more interesting than the ones that had a competent implementation of alpha-beta minimax that consumed the full available time 03:42:30 I used to do a good bit of chess stuff but I was more interested in the AI than in, like, the actual game ^^;; 03:42:41 othello AIs! I remember that 03:42:43 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:43:08 there's still a ton of heuristic stuff in tree search though 03:43:21 like so much, I remember reading for days about it 03:43:31 and all the really complicated heuristics for gauging the state of the board 03:43:48 extensions, quiescence search... 03:44:23 it would be a fun thing for a hacker con with programmable badges 03:44:23 and the horizon problem <_> 03:44:31 to have a thing where you can program a chess AI onto your badge 03:44:36 and then it plays against other people you encounter 03:45:04 that is just about the nerdiest idea i've ever heard said 03:45:07 XD 03:45:14 my favorite chess AI thing though is nakamura beating rybka in blitz chess 03:45:22 and the horrid way he did it 03:45:31 that was awesome 03:45:42 assuming you mean the playbook hack thing 03:45:42 ( http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/20186536921/ ) 03:45:54 right 03:46:06 horizon effect abuse, plus 50-move-rule abuse 03:46:14 hagb4rd2: Well, I don't think HTTP really supports hierachical grouped data (although the file being served could be XML or something which does support it), which, the file manager should be difference due to such thing. 03:46:43 i didn't try extensions which enhance the abilities of some browsers to browse files too, but i've heard they're out there 03:47:09 sure there are differences on the technical side 03:47:37 Still I don't think it is such a good idea as a general purpose file browser though, even if a web browser does have a file browser function. 03:48:25 maybe this is due to a kind of a strange meme 03:50:32 Fiora: wow, nice 03:51:22 nakamura is terrifying 03:51:29 in a good way of course 03:52:39 the horizon effect is really tricky though with tree search stuff in general 03:52:51 since the AI can keep "putting off" an inevitable doom and make it look like it's not actually coming 03:52:59 but it's hard to prove that it is 03:53:35 @google chess programming wiki horizon effect 03:53:37 http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Horizon+Effect 04:02:19 zzo38: if no other routes are specified you can access files on a http server in the way their source is organised in files and directories on the server itself. nevertheless you can access all other routes with a string (typically by separating the tree level element names with a slash or sth) 04:03:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:06:02 on the other hand: who is typing urls anyway? 04:07:56 (i know it was my stupid idea :) 04:08:23 I do type URLs sometimes. 04:09:06 However even though with HTTP generally (not always) the directory/filename is the URL, still HTTP doesn't have the option to list the files, so you have to instead output a HTML or XML file or whatever which list them. 04:09:18 But I am usually typing in the URL if I want one. 04:09:30 WebDAV probably has a standard way to list them 04:10:18 Maybe it does, I don't know. 04:10:28 that's right. file listing is not allowed by default.. or better say route listing (which could be an option in the future) 04:10:38 If you want file listing, use FTP 04:11:10 And for menus in general, you can use gopher. 04:11:20 haha 04:11:35 Although I suppose you can also use Plan9 protocol for file access is another way. 04:12:31 oh np, i could use even http 04:13:13 But if you want file listing, that is what FTP is for, not HTTP. 04:15:00 zzo38: the issue was to provide a sitemap, to enable the user to browse hierarchical grouped data not beeing bounded to "old fashioned ways" beeing aware of where the data is physically stored 04:15:16 i know there is no such standard 04:15:18 In that case, that is what gopher menu is for. 04:17:10 i love the idea to mount anything as device :) 04:17:56 on which i could just navigate like on my filesystem.. that's it 04:18:38 What I think is programs should expose a virtual filesystem (if they have one) in their directory under /proc/ 04:19:09 yes that comes closer to what i called a route map 04:19:10 So process ID 666 might have a virtual filesystem under /proc/666/fs/ or something like that. 04:20:46 yep 04:21:58 So they should make it, if you have environment variable XPID for the X process ID, to access X clipboard buffers and stuff like /proc/$XPID/fs/PRIMARY and so on, as if it is like ordinary files. 04:22:17 absolutely 04:22:24 now we're at home brp 04:22:37 :D 04:28:14 also this tree should relly be pretty much orgnanized by the logical context rather than by physical storage or sth 04:29:48 so the role in which the user behaves on the system might change the access (or even the structure) 04:32:56 monqy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPdzCZdvBp0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhACtJSCtq4 04:34:05 -!- augur has joined. 04:36:03 hi how did i know this would be return to the neverhood 04:36:34 -!- hagb4rd2 has changed nick to hagb4rd. 04:37:18 monqy: are you psychic 04:37:32 that would explain it 04:37:45 monqy: or was it "bitter experience" 04:37:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:38:01 the bitter experience of you telling me to listen to return to the neverhood 04:39:03 monqy: yes that one 04:49:01 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 04:49:28 -!- jfischoff has joined. 04:54:11 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:54:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:12:02 -!- oklofok has joined. 05:15:40 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:11:29 If the sample rate does not mean the delay wanted is an integer number of samples, what is the best way to modify the delay buffer to more closely approxmiate the delay wanted more precisely? 06:29:48 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:37:34 For example if the delay is 3.5 samples then how to make it closer to 3.5 rather than 3 or 4? 06:42:39 apache is now disabling SSL compression by default 06:46:36 -!- ogrom has joined. 06:56:11 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:03:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:05:07 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 07:07:01 if I were to build a program which just takes as input the Godel or "description" number of a Turing machine, along with an input, could the space of input for this program be correctly termed a "programming language"? 07:07:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:07:30 if you want 07:07:32 i'd say so 07:07:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:07:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:07:51 Bike: well, would YOU call it a programming language? :P 07:08:01 -!- ifnspifn has left. 07:08:09 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 07:08:13 i'd call it inefficient, have you /seen/ godel-encoded stuff? 07:08:38 I have; this isn't a practical project I'm planning on doing 07:09:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:11:11 * Sgeo__ hasn't seen godel-encoded stuff 07:11:39 you know how it works, right? code up something to encode strings or w/e and see for yourself 07:11:43 hope you have bignums! 07:12:20 godel encoded programs are shorter than brainfuck programs if they use a good encoding 07:14:43 Sgeo__: here's the reference I've been using: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoedelNumber.html 07:15:15 Bike: I've got a few ideas in mind :D if it works out, I'll share it here 07:15:46 ifnspifn: what ideas are those? so far you've just described the standard UTM definition 07:17:08 Bike: Well, I was going to go a few levels above just natural numbers, mostly for novelty/interest; in particular, I'm planning on making an interpreter which will read regular english words (e.g. an essay) and return a reasonably large godel number 07:17:36 most probably won't correspond to valid programs, you realize 07:17:41 definitely 07:18:23 for demonstrative purposes, I'll start with some simple machine (Fibonacci, etc) have a dict.txt file and choose adequate words randomly 07:18:44 from there it might be the case that I can prune a somewhat sensible selection of words, but that's not necessary 07:19:39 if my text-to-natural number converter is flexible enough though, it should be possible to get a meaningful english snippet 07:22:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:23:04 any particular reason you're involving godel coding? 07:27:37 mostly because it's neat, and an interesting way to represent a TM 07:28:30 well it's not just for TMs, it's for arbitrary strings of integers 07:28:35 -!- iamcal has joined. 07:28:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:29:52 definitely! I actually started learning about its application to his Incompleteness theorems long before I started programming 07:30:19 the numbering system, although far from practical, has always struck me as very elegant 07:30:39 you might be interested in looking at optimal coding 07:31:27 heh, funny you mention that. I'm currently in an introductory abstract algebra class, and got waaaaay over my head in Shannon's work with groups and coding 07:31:59 you can find shannon's big paper on communication online somewhere, though it's a bit old now 07:33:07 I'll definitely check it out. I suppose the foundational papers are usually a good place to start, considering how technical the modern coding schemes are 07:33:20 stuff like huffman coding is pretty easy to understand 07:33:53 oh yeah, I've got most of the basic schemes down 07:34:17 shannon's paper is just about information entropy and stuff iirc, fundamental but hasn't changed much 07:34:46 this stuff though? *whoosh* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_Golay_code 07:35:33 things like "twelve-dimensional subspace" aren't nearly as scary as they look. just persevere, it'll make sense soon 07:37:17 good advice, thanks :) 07:37:34 I know my linear algebra has been neglected for one too many semesters.. 07:37:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:38:06 maybe you should follow up your godel thing with representing tms as infinite-dimensional matrices, just to practice your linear shit 07:40:51 trying to imagine how that representation applies.. an infinite dimensional matrix would correspond to a TM's (potentially) infinite string, where each "digit" is a vector? 07:41:48 nah, just to computable functions (note that I'm tired and not thinking this through) 08:00:45 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 08:01:16 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:00 There are plenty of operations such that a `op` a = a + 1 but a `op` non-a is not necessarily a+1 08:06:22 f(a, b) = log_2 (2^a + 2^b) is one, but there's another 08:06:33 f(a, b) = (a+b)/2 + 1 08:07:15 what about f such that f(a,a) = a+1 but f(a,b) = 37 08:08:12 Where a!=b ? 08:08:20 yeah 08:09:10 Also f(a,b) = a+1 for all a and all b except when a=0 and b=1; f(0,1) = 0 08:09:38 Lots of easy ones, but ... there's something more interesting about the two I named, I think 08:29:12 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:29:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 08:29:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:30:38 -!- Vorpal has joined. 08:42:56 -!- augur has joined. 08:47:41 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:47:48 -!- atriq has joined. 08:50:18 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:51:29 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit). 08:58:54 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 09:01:51 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 09:02:19 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: asleep). 09:39:28 -!- Nisstyre has changed nick to whitef. 09:41:18 -!- whitef has changed nick to Nisstyre. 09:45:35 -!- ssue has quit (*.net *.split). 09:45:37 -!- Lumpio- has quit (*.net *.split). 09:45:39 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 09:47:58 -!- ssue has joined. 09:47:58 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 09:47:58 -!- rodgort has joined. 10:27:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:29:30 http://www.pltgames.com/competition/2012/12 cue the brainfuck derivatives 10:36:50 Does it really list Befunge as a turing tarpit? 10:37:33 fungot: Do you feel like living in a tar pit? 10:37:34 fizzie: there is always a dumb fuck? 10:37:55 fungot: There's no call for that sort of language, young ma... uh... bot! 10:37:56 fizzie: it doesn't output anything. either it has to 10:39:43 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 10:46:56 http://esolangs.org/wiki/REVERSE This reminds me of unefunge 10:51:10 Unefunge programs tend to be so >a#Eb#Dc#Cd#Be#A_-y. 10:51:46 Use semicolons, be happier 10:52:27 There are probably really few (if any) bidirectional pieces of code in fungot. 10:52:28 fizzie: and subtle cough too, sort of reminiscent of " the little schemer is a good approach 10:52:40 (There are also no semicolons.) 10:53:59 (There are three j's, and they're all jump tables.) 10:54:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:54:35 -!- arcatan has joined. 10:55:25 fizzie: Your style is too maintainable, you should be crisscrossing all over the place 10:56:30 Deewiant: It's just because I'm so stuck in the 93s. 10:57:04 If you were actually stuck in the 93s you'd be forced to crisscross due to having only 80x25 space 10:57:37 You don't have to use semicolons, in fact it's better if you don't because they make it too easy 11:07:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:18:02 -!- carado has joined. 11:27:59 I'm mentally stuck, not physically stuck. 11:28:45 So I just naturally avoid the actually-new features, not things like increased playfield size. 11:28:59 I don't think I have any [] turnings in there either. 11:29:54 Oh, there's one. 11:30:29 It's actually just a combined v and ^. 11:31:34 -!- sirdancealot8 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:21:04 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 12:28:27 -!- mekeor has joined. 12:29:36 being physically stuck in 1993 must be weird 12:30:34 are you somehow sent back one year every year? or do you stay young forever? 12:42:47 I wouldn't know; I'm not stuck that way. 12:54:44 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 13:12:54 -!- mekeor has quit (Quit: cu). 14:29:31 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:48:22 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:55:38 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 15:13:03 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:19:03 This is some awful keming on Chromium's part: http://slbkbs.org/keming.png 15:20:30 Or is it an Unicom? 15:20:44 Is it related to the Farnicorn? 15:21:11 fizzie: The HTML source says Unicorn 15:32:36 * ion shivers at the horribly blurry font rendering in the screenshot 15:37:27 hmm, shouldn't horrible keming be good kerning? 15:38:06 Maybe that's true. 15:50:26 -!- SPYGAME has joined. 15:54:09 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:56:12 Phantom_Hoover: fyi i was sleeping when you said it was tomorrow 15:56:47 that is understandable i guess 16:10:22 -!- SPYGAME has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:10:52 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 16:10:59 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:11:01 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:11:43 -!- shachaf has joined. 16:41:53 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262018462/ 16:46:17 ghc -e 'import System.Random' -e 'putStr . map ("╱╲"!!) . randomRs (0,1) =<< newStdGen' 16:49:27 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:51:27 > chr 205.5 16:52:05 Halfway between Í and Î? 16:52:30 yes 16:55:07 -!- jfischoff has joined. 16:57:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C64_Petscii_Charts.png 16:59:48 -!- jfischoff has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:01:40 oh i see RND(1) returns a float between 0 and 1 17:01:57 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 17:02:28 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/c64-8x8.png I made this once for an "ASCII-compatible" "C64-inspired" "high half is mostly line-drawing" thing. 17:05:20 I've forgotten what the £ is there for. 17:05:40 Some of the last characters are slightly application-specific, too. 17:06:38 the book contains an equivalent program written in http://esolangs.org/wiki/PATH as well 17:20:57 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:21:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:21:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:21:42 ais523: hi 17:29:02 ion: "Windwoes" 17:29:24 Yes, that’s what lead to my comment. 17:29:51 ion: yes. but then I repeated it! 17:29:52 Windwhoas 17:37:00 ion: Oh, they were just being political. 17:43:39 ╱╲ ╲ ╱╲ ╱╲ ╲ ╱ ╱ ╱╲ ╱╲ ╱╲ 17:43:40 ╲ ╲ ╲ ╱ ╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱ ╲╱ ╱ ╱ ╲╱ ╲╱ ╱ 17:43:43 buh 17:43:55 ╱╲ ╲ ╱╲ ╱╲ ╲ ╱ ╱ ╱╲ ╱╲ ╱╲ 17:43:56 ╲ ╲ ╲ ╱ ╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ ╲ ╲╱╲ ╲╱╲ 17:43:59 ╲╱ ╲╱ ╱ ╱ ╲╱ ╲╱ ╱ 17:44:09 Oh, I thought those were some kind of runes. 17:44:09 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:44:10 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:44:13 haha 17:44:14 So did I! 17:44:18 yes they do look runic 17:44:18 Reminded me of Myst or something. 17:44:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:44:23 kmc, forgot the bottom part of the 1 17:44:28 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:44:40 I was thinking of a simple maze generator 17:44:44 kmc: now make it work on the alphabet too 17:44:45 and the 7 17:45:04 A simple way to generate mazes is to randomly print ╱ or ╲ 17:45:11 FreeFull: WOW REALLY TELL ME MORE 17:45:36 (that is what we have been talking about) 17:45:48 You have? Where? 17:45:51 Oh 17:45:52 rigth here 17:45:57 Didn't see that 17:45:58 I thought you were generating /// programs 17:46:18 Phantom_Hoover: you can't make them longer on an actual 7 seg display 17:46:32 kmc: Should I go to http://www.meetup.com/Stripe/events/92206302/ ? 17:46:32 I don't know if all combinations of / and \ are valid /// programs 17:47:03 kmc: do the whole alphabet 17:47:04 FreeFull: Also those aren't mazes. 17:47:09 -!- jfischoff has joined. 17:47:19 shachaf: shrug 17:47:22 probably 17:47:22 shachaf: Well, they aren't guaranteed to have a way through 17:47:34 Or to only have an unique way through 17:48:06 "We're trying something a little different this time: while the hackathon will still be informal and you're welcome to hack on anything you'd like, we're encouraging projects built on top of Stripe Connect (stripe.com/connect)." 17:48:20 FreeFull, yes 17:48:37 unless maybe you had, like \ on its own at the end of the file 17:48:46 and nothing before it 17:48:56 You can also use "|| __" as the random characters 17:49:00 Or other stuff 17:49:59 I use "           " as the random characters. 17:50:03 0020 SPACE [ ] 17:50:06 00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE [ ] 17:50:12 2002 EN SPACE [ ] 17:50:13 2003 EM SPACE [ ] 17:50:13 2004 THREE-PER-EM SPACE [ ] 17:50:13 2005 FOUR-PER-EM SPACE [ ] 17:50:13 2006 SIX-PER-EM SPACE [ ] 17:50:15 2007 FIGURE SPACE [ ] 17:50:17 2008 PUNCTUATION SPACE [ ] 17:50:20 2009 THIN SPACE [ ] 17:50:22 200A HAIR SPACE [ ] 17:50:25 Hmm, those lines were supposed to merge into one super-line. 17:50:26 -!- david_werecat has joined. 17:50:28 Oh, well. 17:50:30 shachaf: you should make a brainfuck derivative 17:50:48 shachaf: What, no 205F MEDIUM MATHEMATICAL SPACE? 17:51:02 fizzie: I'm racist against mathematicians. 17:51:07 space has a terrible power 17:51:19 3035 IDEOGRAPHIC HALF FILL SPACE 17:51:19 ␠ 17:51:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:51:56 shachaf: They all look like a single space to me 17:52:15 FreeFull: Maybe you should put on your 3D glasses then. 17:52:44 they are all a single space 17:52:53 each of abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz is a single letter 17:53:22 I once heard U and I were together. 17:53:33 But I guess that was just a rumour. 17:53:44 OGHAN SPACE MARK is in the Zs "Separator, Space" category even though it has a line right through it. 17:53:49 OGHAM, I mean. 17:54:20 And the ETHIOPIC WORDSPACE is two dots, but at least it's Punctuation, Other. 17:54:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:55:26 kmc: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz don't look the same though 17:55:34 fizzie: What about ᠎ 17:55:40 well the spaces won't look the same either 17:55:43 if you have the right font 17:55:56 I'm in a terminal. Monospace fonts only 17:56:01 well 17:56:03 there's yer problem 17:56:04 kmc: In NetHack I used a configuration option that remapped ghosts to Xs 17:56:07 Instead of spaces. 17:56:12 "cheating?" 17:56:15 shachaf: yes 17:56:27 useful 17:57:02 shachaf: The MONGOLIAN VOWEL SEPARATOR is also whitespace, but at least it's empty. 17:57:54 fizzie: I THINK YOU MEAN personspace 17:58:05 i'm still not clear on why all those emoji made it into unicode 17:58:27 kmc: GREEN APPLE. 17:58:40 how do they draw the line between "a nonstandard character encoding with a bunch of new characters" and "a strange binary encoding for both characters and certain graphics" 18:00:04 i'm going to invent ISO-8859-GOATSE where every codepoint above 0x7F is goatse 18:00:14 Committee members debate it, basically. 18:00:29 ... So, you'll probably not get that through unless you can convince people it should be done. 18:00:41 In this case, Apple and Google proposed the emoji set initially. 18:01:06 huh 18:01:11 i thought they came from japanese mobile phone companies 18:01:23 who were already using these characters in nonstandard encodings 18:01:31 That's who made the characters in nonstandard encodings. 18:01:40 Google and Apple are the ones who wanted them in standard encodings. 18:01:41 i see, and apple and google pushed for them to become part of the UCS 18:01:50 because they want to be able to compete in japan 18:02:01 nobody will use Android if they can't text their friend a PILE OF POO 18:02:08 Yup. 18:03:19 -!- Bike has joined. 18:08:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:09:20 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4644 hey, rapido showed up on LtU! 18:10:52 elliott: That's an innovative GHC switch, don't you think? 18:11:26 which 18:11:33 oh 18:11:53 Bike: haha 18:13:47 Bike: "I'm not sure what the goal (or point) of this document is, and how you evaluate whether it accomplished it or not." 18:13:52 very good 18:15:32 apparently he wants a language with no runtime exceptions 18:16:17 well, that's just a total language 18:16:33 elliott: You know the thing where State = Reader + Writer? 18:16:37 you can, of course, represent division in such a language just fine... by giving it a proper type 18:17:22 somehow i don't think he understands that 18:21:21 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:22:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:26:56 (/) :: (Num a, MonadPlus m) => a -> a -> m a 18:28:27 kmc: ITYM div :: 18:28:44 or even div :: Nat -> PosNat -> Nat etc. 18:31:23 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:36:50 div :: Nat -> (d :: Nat) -> Positive d -> Nat 18:37:08 look at all the types i know 18:37:22 i'm a bit curious what he even means by "destroying information" 18:37:29 kmc: not the best infix operator 18:37:32 like, is 14/2 supposed to be distinct from 7? 18:47:22 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 18:50:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:51:52 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 18:54:40 Bike: i think he just means, "x * 0 = 0 is bad" 18:54:53 "0 but true" 18:55:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:55:08 Hello 18:56:32 nooodl_: yeah but i'm trying to put more thought into it than he did 19:22:38 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:22:44 -!- Lumpio_ has joined. 19:40:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:40:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:40:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:44:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:45:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:45:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:49:58 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:53:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:54:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:07:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:09:37 i'd call it inefficient, have you /seen/ godel-encoded stuff? 20:10:55 you _can_ encode things more compactly than using prime factorization exponents, if you want. it's just that prime factorization exponents is intuitive to think about, even if not efficient. 20:11:42 not for me, but of course that's very subjective 20:12:09 in fact we had a discussion some years ago about how to encode brainfuck programs bijectively to numbers, and you had to choose the coding carefully to avoid short programs giving huge blowup. but it is possible. 20:12:20 did we ever come up with a viable encoding 20:14:08 i think so. wasn't there this fibonacci base encoding of a list? 20:14:55 maybe 20:14:57 basically you took each value, wrote it in fibonacci base, interspersed 11 between them (which cannot occur in fibonacci base) and interpreted _that_ as binary. 20:15:14 it's reasonably balanced between the list elements, naturally. 20:15:42 oerjan: um that doesn't work for a bijection does it 20:15:54 *fibonacci base beginning with 1 and ending with 0 20:16:13 i thought it did 20:16:19 maybe it does idk 20:16:40 oh hm forget the * 20:16:57 i think there were some small details that needed to be just right to make it a bijection 20:17:36 or wait maybe you just interspersed 1 20:17:44 since they were already beginning with 1 20:18:05 and to reverse, you broke up the binary at strings of several 1's 20:19:29 hm that encoding may have had some trouble with deep nesting, though. 20:20:08 since there's a constant multiple of approxim. phi/2 for each level 20:22:01 I think I have had ideas about some encoding of brainfuck programs with natural numbers. 20:22:05 Maybe you could have that since all high bits are zero, they correspond to [] at beginning of the program, might be able to make it bijective. 20:22:48 ifnspifn: see above ^ 20:26:53 ifnspifn: you might also be interested in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fractran 20:31:49 -!- atriq has joined. 20:32:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:34:58 I don't know if all combinations of / and \ are valid /// programs 20:35:16 "\" on its own isn't, I don't think? 20:35:22 oerjan: Fractran's nuts... thanks for sharing! 20:35:39 sure they are. there's a "if you don't have a complete command the program halts" rule. 20:35:47 ifnspifn: you're welcome! 20:36:22 and of course only the current command is parsed at all, since the rest can be changed at any time. 20:36:44 !slashes \ 20:36:47 No output. 20:37:16 * pikhq_ randomly notes that fopencookie is a neat interface 20:51:29 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:52:16 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 20:52:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:52:47 Why, hello there 20:52:52 g'day 21:23:30 Mate. 21:24:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:24:11 Check. 21:24:36 fizzie: You should help me get IPv6 working!!! 21:26:17 oerjan: Sum. 21:27:03 Dim. 21:28:04 elliott: I can not fathom why it would not work. Does it work from irssi at all? If you, say, "/connect -6 -network Freenode chat.eu.freenode.net 6667". 21:28:27 fizzie: Well, what I did from telnet was SSL-less. 21:28:35 I guess I could set my irssi to non-SSL for a bit. 21:29:01 That /connect with explicit 6667 port should be SSL-less. 21:29:21 Right. 21:29:24 Will that do my autojoins and so on? 21:29:26 I'm scared. 21:30:50 Maybe you have to run the autojoin macro manually after connecting? 21:32:00 elliott: I think with -network Freenode it should work just as if you would have added a temporary server to the Freenode network. 21:32:07 But I'm certainly un-sure. 21:32:14 fizzie: I have to manually disconnect before doing that, right? 21:32:20 Or it'll try to connect to both servers at the same time or something. 21:33:01 Mmmaybe, yes. 21:33:15 I'm still scared. 21:35:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:35:42 I would be scared, too. 21:36:42 fizzie: You should try it! 21:42:39 I'm too scared to. 21:43:05 elliott: Colenses are "pretty exciting huh" 21:43:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:44:47 oerjan: Bulb, by the way. 21:45:15 elliott, did you start the fortress yet 21:45:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:45:38 I'm waiting for fizzie to try it. 21:45:45 atriq: How could he, with the IPv6 problem still unfixed? It's unthinkable. 21:46:27 fizzie: C'mon. 21:46:29 What could go wrong? 21:46:38 Everything would catch flame. 21:46:47 I thought IPv6 didn't exist in the UK or something 21:47:07 fizzie: It'll be exciting! 21:49:07 fizzie: Onion. 21:50:05 oerjan: Router. 21:50:11 I foresee a problem here. 21:50:22 ion: would i be a better person if i acquired ftl 21:50:40 Perhaps it would be best to nip it off in the bud. 21:50:44 fizzie: IPv6. 21:50:57 (nothing like merging the conversations, right?) 21:51:00 fizzie: TEST IT 21:51:18 oerjan: Problem. 21:51:20 elliott: NOOO. 21:51:25 shachaf: No, but everyone else would be worse, so it would be a net win for you. 21:51:27 fizzie: Child. 21:51:54 I want to say "killer", but I'm afraid it might have negative social consequences. 21:52:51 ion: Do I need OpenGL for it? 21:53:56 shachaf: yes 21:54:22 fizzie: TEST 21:54:25 ion: help 21:55:55 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:09 elliott: NEST 21:58:25 fizzie: I think you need not worry about those kind of social consequences in this specific circumstances. 22:01:33 ^rainbow TEST 22:01:33 TEST 22:01:36 fizzie: DO IT 22:06:01 No can do, I am suddenly busy with various important matters. 22:10:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:15:59 a sudden urge to hide the bodies better 22:20:28 Can you disguise them? 22:21:00 i mean fizzie's sudden urge. to avoid negative social consequences, you see. 22:26:36 Well, in Dungeons&Dragons game I have idea what to do with the chancellor's dead body, which includes both disguising it and hiding it, and casting a spell on myself to forget it. 22:28:35 Therefore, I think hiding the bodies is not sufficient, live or dead. 22:29:25 OKAY 22:32:00 -!- monqy has joined. 22:59:09 It's so cold... 22:59:19 Why is my room so cold 22:59:53 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:02:23 atriq: winter is coming 23:03:01 Oh no! 23:03:37 also, because your country hasn't invented insulation yet 23:03:50 atriq, do you have the window open 23:03:55 classic mistake, that one 23:04:18 (tip: Alt-F4 usually closes the window) 23:04:57 unless you're on a mac, then it's cmd-w 23:05:05 and if you're on linux it's anyone's guess 23:05:15 ctrl-alt-del? 23:05:33 Phantom_Hoover: ^C ? 23:08:25 ^Q? 23:10:06 nortti, that's not even consistent on the command line 23:10:50 atriq: ^Q is xoff 23:11:24 Who knows? 23:11:25 ??? 23:12:24 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:23 I sometimes use Ubuntu computer in FreeGeek, so I know at least in Ubuntu, close window is ALT+F4 like in Windows. 23:16:00 ^w closes some windows too. 23:16:43 I myself prefer ^ak 23:18:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:25:35 -!- augur has joined. 23:27:23 -!- carado has joined. 23:34:57 no, temperature, you're _not_ allowed to drop below -10 celsius :( 23:35:34 I've been waiting for it to drop below 0°C here... 23:35:38 (this is a weird ass winter) 23:36:32 Foreca is forecasting -21°C for the Sun-Mon night. 23:36:59 i see -15 on tuesday. 23:37:59 Daily highs go -12, -9, -6 -14, -11, -7, -7, -6, -4, -5 in the ten-day forecast, that's not so cold. 23:38:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:38:33 its -74 on pluto 23:38:50 At that point just start doing it in Kelvin. 23:39:00 199K. 23:39:05 only -74? 23:39:11 Wikipedia says it's 33-55K 23:39:23 -!- augur has joined. 23:39:24 pluto is having a heat wave? 23:39:39 Fiora, depends on the place i suppose 23:40:13 pluto doesn't have an atmosphere worth talking about, right? 23:40:22 don't think so 23:40:32 so no climate. sucks 23:40:32 "Pluto's atmosphere consists of a thin envelope of nitrogen, methane, and carbon monoxide gases, which are derived from the ices of these substances on its surface.[89] Its surface pressure ranges from 6.5 to 24 μbar." 23:40:56 the pressure is about like 0.15-0.3 pascal 23:41:10 accordnig to like, different measurements >_>; 23:41:15 I'm guessing new horizons will make things a lot more certain 23:41:19 well it's not like we've been there 23:41:27 they did it with observations of occultations with stars 23:41:28 (by "we" i am referring to our robot slaves) 23:41:42 yeah, i know, but that's not as accurate as just flying a barometer out there, is it 23:41:51 maybe our robot slaves will revolt and send us there. 23:41:53 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:42:01 one can only hope 23:42:04 I don't think we're actually putting the spaceship in the atmosphere XD 23:42:16 boooooriiiiing 23:42:28 i wanna see if arnold's cousin's corpse is actually there, from magic school bus 23:42:38 yeah you need to bore deeply to get to the interesting parts 23:43:09 magic school bus had deaths? 23:43:23 that's what we need new horizons to find out 23:44:03 mind you i think i may have seen approx. 1/2 episode of that show. 23:45:50 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:46:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:47:18 23:39:04 only -74? 23:47:21 space probes are so cool, I'll finally be able to actually live through one exploring the outer planets 23:47:21 Fiora: i didn't specify units!! 23:47:33 I mean I was alive with Galileo but I was really young 23:47:36 -74 degrees hird 23:48:13 and voyager 2 passed neptune the year before I was born 23:52:11 Fiora, uh what about cassini 23:52:30 i remember reading a book about space when i was little and there was a thing about cassini 23:52:43 when it actually reached saturn i was like "holy shit it's the future!" 23:55:24 oh right!! 23:55:29 wow I totally forgot about that one 23:55:45 * pikhq_ randomly notes that Planck temperature is perhaps the hardest to actually *use* temperature scale. 23:55:58 I remember the pictures it took and everything 23:55:59 planck temperature is some absurdly high thing, right 23:56:02 and all the news about Titan 23:56:09 0 Planck temp = 0 K. 1 Planck temp ~= 1.4*10^8 YK. 23:56:19 Bike: Yes. It's in yottakelvin. 23:56:26 an oft-used unit right there 23:56:31 the planck temperature is where they hypotheize grand unification right? 23:56:36 I'd use a larger SI prefix but they don't exist. 23:56:44 lol. 23:56:54 Fiora: Among other things. 23:57:05 is it 23:57:12 Combine SI prefixes if it is really necessary (even though you are not supposed to combine them) 23:57:17 gigayottakelvin! 23:57:30 bah, it's not even a gigayottakelvin 23:57:35 i thought planck units were just where the theory totally breaks down 23:57:37 It's about 0.14 gigayottakelvin. 23:57:48 not necessarily where some physically-significant thing happens 23:57:50 I have used "decimicron" before, which is short for "decimicrometre" 23:57:52 Phantom_Hoover: Yuh. And then people guess what that means. 23:58:21 With no justification, because why figure shit out when you can speculate. ;) 23:58:23 obviously what this proves is that 1.4*10^8 yottas is the biggest number ever 23:58:28 ultrafinitism proven by physics 23:58:36 but but but 23:58:38 attoparsecs 23:58:38 And there are also some units that I don't like, such as "tonne", so we can use "megagram" instead, for example. 23:58:48 10^3 K: weld; 10^6 K: fusion; 10^32: grand unification? 23:58:54 Kilokilogram 23:58:57 Fiora: have you ever SEEN an attoparsec 23:59:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:59:12 wait, wait, wait, i thought that at least some of the planck units do correspond to physical things, like with energy quantification and all 23:59:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:59:18 urk 23:59:27 Beheheh. The peak wavelength emitted by a black body radiator at Planck temperature is also Planck length. 23:59:28 look around you maths is off youtube now :( 23:59:38 nooooo 23:59:43 "Kilokilogram" can be used too, but "kilo" is already the SI prefix for "gram" (even though "kilogram" is considered the base unit) 23:59:48 I think um... 1TeV is roughly equal to 11 petakelvins 23:59:55 oi elliott use your dvds and find out what the biggest number is 2012-12-02: 00:00:01 so like the LHC gets like 11 petakelvins 00:00:21 -!- n2liquid has joined. 00:00:21 elliott: I'm roughly 50.5 attoparsecs tall! seeeee 00:00:29 Phantom_Hoover: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5054356894457127152 00:00:31 shorty 00:00:36 the barn-megaparsec is my favourite stupid unit 00:00:50 because it's actually a completely reasonable unit 00:00:55 "Tonne" is confusing with "ton" so I think "tonne" should not be used. 00:00:58 Fiora: i think this means you may actually be shorter than me 00:01:00 which is a first 00:01:33 Bike: Well, the derived Planck units are often quite reasonable. 00:01:35 heh, the hubble-barn is also a reasonable unit 00:01:50 Bike: For instance, 1 Planck impedence is about 30 ohms. 00:02:15 huh. 00:02:21 elliott: wait how tall are you 00:02:22 the planck pressure, though... 00:02:32 Fiora, like 1.7m iirc 00:02:40 less, even 00:02:45 4.63309e113 Pa? Jesus. 00:02:46 `frink 1 attoparsec -> m 00:02:51 i am like 5 feet 1 inch or something 00:02:57 maybe i grew since the last time i figured that out 00:03:03 oh, I'm 5'1" too 00:03:13 0.030856775813057289536 00:03:28 Another thing you can do other than use metres and so on, is if the other units are wrong size, use other base units. So, such things as lightyear and so on, etc. 00:03:36 planck momentum is reasonable 00:03:40 0.4 petayottayottayottayottapascal? 00:03:57 0.4 PYYYYPa is awesome. 00:03:58 an attoparsec is like 3cm 00:04:11 attoparsec per microfortnight is the best though :3 00:04:23 Bit over an inch? Huh. 00:04:25 about a foot per second or something, right? 00:05:15 the dwarf fortress units are quite silly 00:05:26 they're fahrenheit + 9000 or something 00:05:31 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 00:05:46 it's like a cm/s I think 00:06:01 iirc, a lightnanosecond is about a foot 00:06:27 yeah, it would be 00:08:16 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:11:48 Huh. Planck charge is also fairly reasonable. About 12 times larger than the elementary charge. 00:12:34 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:12:40 -!- ifnspifn_ has joined. 00:13:03 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:13:10 pikhq_, you mean the coulomb? 00:13:18 the coulomb is not a reasonable unit 00:13:24 the charge of an electron 00:13:30 Phantom_Hoover: No, the elementary charge is the magnitude of the charge of an electron. 00:13:32 is called the "elementary charge" 00:13:40 that's not even close to a reasonable unit! 00:13:50 It's reasonable in many contexts. 00:14:19 i thought we meant 'macroscopic' 00:14:34 Okay, fine. 00:15:08 It's still more reasonable than most of the Planck units... I mean, shit, there's an SI prefix for that one. :P 00:15:46 It's a mere 1.8 aC. 00:16:57 planck impedance: 29.979 ohms? 00:17:26 Yup. 00:17:31 there's a planck momentum too, it's not big 00:17:38 I wonder what the planck magnetic field is 00:18:17 Magnetic flux density? 00:18:22 2.15 * 10^53 teslas says a quick google? ohgod 00:18:32 "215000 yottayottateslas" 00:18:46 HTK's timestamps are in units of 0.1 microseconds. I've always presumed it's because it's accurate enough for each sample of 16 kHz audio to have an integer time in those units (unlike microseconds; one sample is 62.5 us), but nanoseconds would've resulted in too large numbers. 00:18:54 i think that's above the point where maxwell's equations go to hell and the vacuum becomes polarised 00:19:08 I think that happens at like, about 10^40 times less? XD 00:19:12 polarised, n. really cold (it's cold at the north and south pole) 00:19:20 "megasecond" is my favorite usual unit, i think 00:19:20 Or just make up new prefixes. 00:19:28 not any more *badum-tsh* 00:19:47 Someone once told me, they read they wanted to add another prefix "heva" 00:19:59 fizzie: might also be that they stole their time unit from windows 00:20:01 wasn't there a petition to make "hella" official, or something 00:20:06 * oerjan swats elliott for confusing nouns and adjectives -----### 00:20:21 i liked the proposal for zeppo-, harpo- and groucho- 00:20:27 pfffffff 00:20:32 link? 00:20:54 n., n. separator between dictionary entries and their definitions 00:21:09 I don't want "zeppo" because it is similar to "zepto" 00:21:10 well if we have hella, then clearly the opposite prefix should be heava 00:21:11 it may have been in either the feedback or letters sections of the new scientist 00:21:48 I think they wanted "heva" one above "yotta" although I am unsure. 00:21:51 olsner: I suppose it's possible, though I don't think it's a very Windows-oriented piece of software. 00:22:06 itsymeter. yw. 00:22:14 I've seen at least one "serious-looking" SI extension proposal. 00:22:34 they have to add bitsy too 00:22:38 so then you can have an itsybitsymeter 00:22:38 itsy-, bitsy-, teeny- and weeny- 00:22:44 http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11984 *grin* 00:22:47 oerjan: fuck you i'm a disctionary 00:22:49 an itsybitsy spider would be very small indeed 00:22:50 polkadotmeter 00:22:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:23:02 But I am OK if you want to add other prefixes, whether it is "groucho" or whatever else 00:23:17 elliott: is that like a book using discworld spelling conventions? 00:23:44 oerjan: who publsiehs the definitions around here 00:24:08 There is also "myria" not used much anymore, although it is a metric prefix for a myriad (ten thousand). 00:25:30 Be handy for CJK folk. 00:25:50 (CJK all group numbers in myriads.) 00:26:47 Yes, I know that too. 00:27:02 oh, that's probably where knuth got the idea, isn't it. 00:27:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Client Quit). 00:27:36 At least I think so. 00:28:12 "Angstro" has been suggested for 10^(-10). Perhaps to get rid of ångström as a separate unit. (It even has the "m" there.) 00:28:59 I think it would be OK. 00:29:25 angstrometer 00:29:56 (Don't know whether the suggestion kept the diacritics. At least å would be free for abbreviations.) 00:30:13 1 åm. 00:30:27 Yes, and then "angstrom" becomes short for "angstrometer". But yes you should use the lowercase a with ring above for this prefix (uppercase A with ring above is angstrom) 00:31:14 Make a list of these things. 00:31:36 Then you also have 1 åÅ = 10 zm. 00:31:58 :D 00:32:00 I suppose it does allow you to do that although I do not think it would be a good idea. 00:32:23 One ångströångström does sound a bit silly. 00:32:42 * pikhq_ approves of the ångströångström 00:33:35 Though maybe that should be "ö¨å" (can't be bothered to find the combining char) 00:34:19 [[ 00:34:20 > The excuse for not fixing this does not make sense. 00:34:21 What doesn't make sense is you. 00:34:21 ]] 00:34:21 :1:52: parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) 00:34:23 -- ulrich drepper 00:34:33 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_(m%C3%A5tt) 00:34:34 you mean an å with a diaeresis? 00:35:04 ä you guys are lazy 00:35:09 olsner: Yes. 00:35:11 oh, 1 fat is 480 osmunds ... pretty thin fella this Osmund 00:35:24 ŕ 00:35:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:35:33 ĥ 00:35:37 What is the equation for the Railsback curve? 00:35:56 olsner: Needs both, clearly, as otherwise that'd be a diphthong. 00:36:32 not really, since öå doesn't become a diphtong in the first place 00:37:24 olsner: Bah humbug. 00:37:26 olsner: unless you're very drunk 00:37:47 I will diäresisize all vowels that are adjacent! 00:38:21 föå en öål til föår föan 00:39:45 olsner: or from skåne, probably 00:39:52 Which is why it's "oërjan" not "Ørjan". >:D 00:40:10 øærjan 00:40:47 oërhöert 00:41:05 does this: "å̈" look fine to you guys 00:41:16 nooodl__: excellent plain a, there 00:41:18 no, it looks like you have some kind of growth on your head there 00:41:31 it's supposed to be... an a with an ö above it, essentially 00:41:46 a + ° + ¨ 00:42:09 ǟ 00:42:36 nooodl__: That composed poorly. 00:42:39 I blame my renderer. 00:44:13 http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&safe=off&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=sk%C3%B6%C3%A5ne&oq=sk%C3%B6%C3%A5ne&gs_l=hp.3...122718.172765.0.173062.7.7.0.0.0.0.219.750.3j2j1.6.0...0.0...1c.1.T-0dj36Ttyc gives a bit of hits 00:49:13 ion: I think he meant rwbarton? 00:50:17 Unless someone like ion wants to do it. 00:50:28 Dunno whom he meant, but i was asking about it in response to that. :-) 00:50:46 "someone like ion" might refer to you 01:02:13 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:11:37 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 01:22:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 01:38:53 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:40:08 Do you guys sometimes discuss about practical (albeit experimental) programming languages? 01:40:25 Like Norwegian? 01:40:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:40:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:41:19 there's some Finnish too, but opinions differ as to wether that counts as a language at all 01:41:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:41:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:41:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:41:39 _programming_, people 01:41:53 ... shachaf started it 01:41:59 lol 01:42:06 if haskell counts, then we do. 01:42:25 Ok, Haskell; what about new programming languages? 01:42:26 also some have had less esoteric projects, i recall Gregor's plof 01:42:29 -!- Sgeo__ has changed nick to Sgeo. 01:42:32 n2liquid: Well, it's not esoteric programming, so *yes*. 01:42:44 Or languages that extrapolate concepts like object orientation 01:43:39 Especially not stuff that's too focused on mathematical concepts 01:43:48 @quote oerjan 01:43:49 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 01:44:06 COUNT ME OUT 01:44:39 oerjan, is plof on the esolang wiki? 01:44:56 no, because it's not esoteric 01:45:02 Glass is OO 01:45:11 well, _maybe_ it's linked from Gregor's user page. 01:45:27 n2liquid: Plof is more a research language than anything else. 01:45:28 Oh, practicaal? 01:45:31 glass is OO, esoteric, and also gregor's :) 01:45:34 Yes. 01:46:56 http://plof.codu.org/wiki/ 01:47:09 Hey, thanks :D 01:51:37 -!- atehwa has joined. 01:52:11 We do discuss experiemental programming and stuff too sometimes 01:53:11 I've been munching some concepts for a programming language for some time now 01:53:28 Although I suppose we also sometimes discuss completely different things too 01:53:28 i recall edwardk had a language project when he came here, although i think he's gravitated towards "everything fits better into haskell"? also everything edwardk is by definition the opposite of "not stuff that's too focused on mathematical concepts". 01:54:17 in the same way, some haskellers seem to go on to agda. 01:54:22 It's nothing bat-crazy like what's often explored in academic research projects or esoteric languages 01:54:26 oerjan, agda? 01:54:45 dependently-typed experimental language 01:55:38 I see 01:55:41 Has there been any work on Plof recently? 01:55:54 Mostly, I just want to read awesome documentation, even if the language isn't well implemented 01:56:05 Why hallo thar, people talking about me >_> 01:56:17 well the fythe VM for it was worked on in february, at least, i see 01:56:33 Fythe was last poked at a few months ago. 01:56:45 It's possible that I'm currently contractually obligated not to touch it, so I'm not :) 01:56:56 ouch 01:57:22 Just for two more weeks now *shrugs* 01:57:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:50 The Fythe engine works great, and I have some neato ideas for making it work better, I just haven't bothered to finish porting Plof to it yet. 01:58:13 What with my being distracted by silly irrelevant stuff like pursuing a PhD and making money and watching ponies. 01:58:14 any relation to your ioccc entry? :P 01:58:20 OH YOU 01:58:38 sorry, *winning entry 02:00:03 ^^ 02:00:33 Lest it's not obvious, my IOCCC entry has no practical application whatsoever. Anything to make it not suck would also make it unportable, defeating the whole purpose. 02:01:33 obviously. 02:02:30 what entry is this? 02:02:50 What do you guys think about LLVM? 02:02:53 Just curious 02:03:18 Bike: http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2011_richards 02:05:14 well that's... impressive 02:06:20 I happen to like LLVM, although I also think some things missing, such as supporting bytes other than 8-bits, and supporting ARM2 02:07:50 I know I wouldn't be into programming language design without LLVM 02:07:54 That's a given 02:08:17 is the point of all this preprocessor stuff to make the source resemble dc code 02:11:29 gregor: Is there a description of how the JIT is done somewhere? 02:14:04 ion: The description was in your heart all along. 02:18:39 omg 02:18:51 that JIT is really amazing 02:19:08 it manages to hide the opcodes and stuff too, wow 02:25:33 I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:29:35 `addquote omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:29:38 859) omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:29:51 oerjan: TWO SPACES!!!!! 02:30:12 elliott: Two spaces are the devil. :-( 02:30:18 elliott: i checked with `quote, and the first example that came up had only one 02:30:32 oerjan: two spaces between the first two messages, I mean 02:30:40 kmc: The GHC inliner is annoying me. :-( 02:30:41 Can you fix it? 02:30:53 `quote 02:30:55 I should probably read that one paper, _Secrets of the GHC Inliner_. 02:30:56 683) Here in Scotland we have a rigorous and well-tested theory of brothels. 02:30:59 `quote 02:31:01 `quote 02:31:03 341) How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! I have the weirdest boner right now. 02:31:27 43) Reality isn't a part of physics 02:31:33 OKAY THEN 02:31:40 `delquote 859 02:31:44 oerjan: Don't give in! 02:31:45 ​*poof* omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:31:52 `addquote omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:31:55 859) omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:32:15 ½ fixed 02:32:16 wait, why did you do that 02:32:40 ion: the rules for [...] are even more complicated. 02:32:50 You should use “　” and see if anyone notices. 02:32:51 -!- augur has joined. 02:33:33 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:34:04 Bike: elliott is a space nazi 02:34:14 we don't want to annoy him 02:34:26 Bike: the formatting rules shall not be broken 02:34:27 Like in Iron Sky? 02:35:03 `addquote bike:the formatting rules shall not be broken 02:35:06 860) bike:the formatting rules shall not be broken 02:35:09 i was just about to do that 02:35:19 i'm so uncreative. 02:35:25 So am I. :-( 02:35:30 `delquote 860 02:35:34 ​*poof* bike:the formatting rules shall not be broken 02:35:36 broken 02:35:37 what is an appropriate THAT'S THE JOKE link? 02:35:49 the simpson's clip? 02:36:29 i guess that is the top google hit 02:36:36 shachaf: inliner? i hardly know her! 02:36:37 i'm going to pretend that apostrophe was supposed to be there. "The Simpson" is a nickname of a bigfoot-like internet legend, known for posting photographs of firearms with jokes engraved on them. 02:36:49 ion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk 02:37:15 kmc: good point thx 02:37:34 fizzie: ok 02:37:37 fizzie: what was that connect command again 02:39:26 -!- Lumpio_ has changed nick to Lumpio-. 02:44:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:45:15 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:47:18 oerjan 02:47:20 go wake fizzie up 02:47:54 fizzie: WAKE UP 02:49:03 oh, it's december o.O late happy new month people o/ 02:49:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:49:34 oerjan: go to finland 02:50:36 Yes, is December now, and is Advent tomorrow, I think. 02:50:44 Finland isn't real, elliott. 02:50:52 Do you actually know anyone who's ever been there? 02:51:01 Finland is drunk Japan. No more, no less. 02:51:16 Drunk Japan + lakka? 02:51:25 Well, when you're drunk... :P 02:51:28 `? finland 02:51:31 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 02:51:39 I added some commands in my Csound plugin, including "meanfilter", "multiguide", "pairecho", etc 02:52:06 it would appear the bus has got lost 02:52:31 The "pairecho" command makes two delay lines which are allowed to interfere with each other and the amount of interference and output levels can be adjusted at x-rate. 02:52:39 * oerjan tried to read pairecho as something latino 02:52:54 Why? Do you speak Latino? 02:53:05 ladino's cool. 02:53:17 ...it looks vaguely spanish. 02:53:31 monqy, elliott Fiora 02:53:33 Nah, oerjan only speaks onital. 02:53:34 It is meant to be English. 02:54:28 pikhq_: ¡orter edav 02:57:07 -!- jfischoff has joined. 02:58:37 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:00:19 -!- elliott has joined. 03:00:39 Alright, I got insecure IPv6 working. 03:00:44 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest55032. 03:00:44 TODO: Get secure IPv6 working. 03:00:56 hi Guest55032 03:00:57 Um. 03:01:04 imo Guest55034 > Guest55032 03:01:19 -!- Guest55032 has changed nick to elliott. 03:12:25 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 03:14:26 68060 > 55032 03:14:48 > compare 68060 55032 03:14:50 GT 03:15:39 λ> compare Guest55034 Guest55032 03:15:41 LT 03:15:43 ¡!! 03:16:26 What! 03:17:01 how did that happen? 03:17:08 let compare = flip compare 03:17:14 :P 03:17:29 insidious 03:21:52 data Guest = Guest55034 | Guest55032 deriving (Eq, Ord) 03:23:00 data Comparing = Eq | Ord deriving (Eq, Ord) 03:23:45 note to self do not ask questions 03:24:39 i'd be more impressed if he made it work in lambdabot 03:28:02 oerjan: You should set this channel -n 03:28:09 So elliott can spam it without joining. 03:28:48 i already did once 03:29:18 oerjan: Also, you should kick me for spamming. 03:29:19 If there is Haskell library for defining moves of chess pieces, what should it be called? 03:29:34 zzo38: Hlfdmocp 03:30:16 oerjan: twice 03:30:30 I mean the module name, not the package name, though. 03:32:37 Control.Games.Board.Chess.Moves.Class 03:32:48 hth 03:36:04 oh gosh I got quoted 03:36:21 you've really hit the bigtime now. 03:36:23 @remember Fiora oh gosh I got quoted 03:36:23 Nice! 03:36:36 No, lambdabot is for high-quality quotes. 03:36:38 @forget Fiora oh gosh I got quoted 03:36:38 Done. 03:36:51 @quote fuck 03:36:51 sorear says: [emacs haskell mode] not fucked up, just well documented 03:37:10 @quote duh 03:37:10 copumpkin says: a monad is just a lax functor from a terminal bicategory, duh. fuck that monoid in category of endofunctors shit 03:37:18 so Fiora has gone through two phases of initiation 03:37:30 excessive welcoming and being quoted 03:37:34 is she going to have to write an eodermdrome interpreter too 03:37:38 next up is the goat sacrifice 03:37:49 Bike: no, no one actually managed that yet 03:37:51 Bike: yes but that usually comes later 03:37:51 oh i'm so up for that 03:38:01 how has yours been 03:38:04 oerjan: isn't that the joke 03:38:12 oerjan: oklofok did 03:38:24 she has to spend a few weeks agonizing over how to do it before she fails, though 03:38:28 you mean no *person* 03:38:36 i got bored/frustrated, turns out np-complete problems are annoying, especially when you look at graph rewriting and then look at thue and think "why" 03:38:51 elliott: he just chose a different failure mode, known as "losing the source" 03:39:06 what's an eodermdrome interpreter @_@ 03:39:23 Fiora: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eodermdrome it's an esoteric language, or "esolang" for short 03:39:37 anyone whose eyes look like @ isn't sane enough to be told! 03:41:08 yes I know what an eslolang is 03:41:20 oh no. it's /that/ one 03:41:21 the graph 03:41:27 the one i was failing at, yes 03:41:42 Fiora: "what is an eslolang" 03:41:44 help 03:41:53 i did write a mascarphone interpreter when arc_koen was talking about it the other day, though. completely untested, as the gods demanded 03:42:16 sorry I'm like randomly being pulled away and things because I'm at my parents' house this weekend 03:42:27 does this mascarphone interpreter have good call rates? 03:42:38 nope 03:42:58 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 03:43:13 what does that mean? if it's some subquestion of "is it efficient" the answer is still no 03:43:37 * oerjan notes strong winds above Bike's head 03:44:06 i have congenital joke-blindness, you bigot! 03:44:49 oh. i'm afraid you'll probably not survive in this channel, then. 03:44:56 oh. subgraph isomorphism is the hard one 03:44:59 :( 03:45:01 and graph isomorphism is the almost-hard one 03:45:18 i actually got the subgraph isomorphism bit, but the replacement semantics are not what i assumed 03:47:00 there's the "some vertices need to have no extra edges" bit 03:47:47 yeah, basically i didn't pay enough attention to the description and wrote it wrong, so, frustration when i found out 04:04:06 ion: So do you do the thing where you capitalize your sentences, but not the word "I"? 04:04:18 heh 04:04:39 ? 04:04:51 if a sentence starts with I, do you capitalize the following word instead? 04:04:58 I was wondering whether you do that on purpose or what it is that you do. 04:05:14 olsner: I meant treating "I" as any other word, and capitalizing it like any other word. 04:05:19 Rather than giving it special treatment. 04:05:31 I’d like to learn the reasoning for the special treatment of “I”. You don’t capitalize “You”. 04:05:52 probably something to do with the venerable medieval lack of punctuation or spaces 04:05:52 U don't? 04:05:55 or “a” 04:06:13 ion: So it is a thing you do on purpose? 04:06:32 Bike: Yes I am guessing something like that 04:07:17 -!- david_werecat has joined. 04:07:42 Well, i capitalize “I” in anything more formal, but i find the exception strange. 04:08:03 i AGREE 04:08:10 i ONCE CONSIDERED DOING IT THAT WAY 04:08:22 I agree, but I just got over it 04:08:47 There are enough oddities in my own language to be questioning english 04:08:53 Write All Sentences in Some Kind of Title Case 04:09:04 Kanaya? 04:09:08 I read an article that suggested that the only reason “I” is capitalized is because printers thought “i” looked ugly. 04:09:18 Bah, we should just capitalize all Nouns, as is the historical Practice. 04:09:24 guys 04:09:24 Nowadays printers have no free will. 04:09:32 I have a 1-2 ms ping to the london freenode server from my server 04:09:34 how wild is that 04:09:44 shachaf: that's what they _want_ you to think 04:09:45 elliott: Not particularly wild? 04:09:51 elliott: the wildest 04:09:52 Gregor: fuck you 04:09:53 The same guys who thought you should move a subset of punctuation following a right quotation mark inside the quotation? Screw those guys. 04:10:01 Free Will is for Plebians, Peasants, and Fools. We educated Souls know that there is no such Thing as free Will. 04:10:03 I'm in San Francisco! 04:10:05 How wild is that? 04:10:10 There is only the Dictates of Physics. 04:10:17 shachaf: I am too. 04:10:21 look at this shit 04:10:22 64 bytes from sturgeon.freenode.net (83.170.94.214): icmp_req=1 ttl=56 time=1.06 ms 04:10:26 64 bytes from sturgeon.freenode.net (83.170.94.214): icmp_req=3 ttl=56 time=1.16 ms 04:10:29 64 bytes from sturgeon.freenode.net (83.170.94.214): icmp_req=4 ttl=56 time=1.15 ms 04:10:31 Gregor: I looked for a taquería and didn't find one. 04:10:32 64 bytes from sturgeon.freenode.net (83.170.94.214): icmp_req=5 ttl=56 time=1.15 ms 04:10:34 64 bytes from sturgeon.freenode.net (83.170.94.214): icmp_req=6 ttl=56 time=1.13 ms 04:10:38 don't tell me that's not wild 04:10:47 shachaf: Where the heck are you in SFO that you can't find a taqueria??? 04:10:49 elliott: You seem to have some packet loss. 04:10:50 They're EVERYWHERE. 04:10:50 elliott: ... How many lightmilliseconds are you from London? 04:10:59 Gregor: I didn't look very far, admittedly. 04:11:02 pikhq_: me, a while 04:11:04 my server, 0 04:11:06 because it is in london 04:11:11 Ah. Okay. 04:11:19 ion: you're a packet loss 04:11:30 Though "a while" is not a quantity of lightmilliseconds, vague or otherwise. ;) 04:11:41 you're a while 04:11:53 `frink 1 while -> lightmillisecond 04:11:54 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:12:01 shachaf: are you in san francisco san francisco or are you in epa 04:12:04 Syntax error: , line 1, near column 2 \ 1 while -> lightmillisecond \ ^ \ 1 error(s) occurred during parsing. 04:12:09 epa gangnam style 04:12:17 kmc: At the moment San Francisco San Francisco. 04:12:18 pikhq_: shocking 04:12:39 hm 04:12:41 kmc: San Francisco is the best San Francisco, don't you think? 04:12:41 where abouts 04:12:59 pikhq_: anyway you should help me get ipv6 working 04:13:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_(disambiguation) 04:13:03 i can connect to freenode via ipv6 04:13:04 i can connect to freenode via ssl 04:13:06 but not both at the same time 04:13:47 DUN DUN DUN 04:14:21 Gregor: Are you doing a PhD thing in San Francisco? 04:14:39 shachaf: I'm doing an internship thing in San Francisco. 04:14:59 Oh. 04:15:03 Where? 04:15:08 Oracle 04:15:30 Is it true that a soulectomy is a job requirement? 04:15:43 oh no 04:15:48 most of my coworkers used to work at oracle :( 04:15:54 they must be zombies now 04:16:08 :( 04:16:22 kmc: Are they using Python? 04:16:26 That's a sure sign of being a zombie. 04:16:31 i don't understand 04:16:32 but, yes 04:16:46 Do you have lots of coworkers now? 04:16:51 only six 04:17:01 Six up from four? 04:17:11 of whom five used to work at oracle 04:17:18 shachaf: i suppose 04:17:21 six down from however many it was before the zombies started munching brains 04:17:33 there are four founders; i am employee #1 and employee #2 started two days after me 04:18:13 Public Employee #1 04:18:28 that's right 04:21:25 kmc: My sister wants to move to Cambridge. 04:21:30 Unfortunately it's the wrong one. 04:21:59 How do I persuade her that Mid-Cambridge, MA is the best city? 04:25:37 heh 04:25:39 shrug 04:25:41 it's not the best city 04:25:44 but pretty good 04:26:07 why is your sister moving to the other cambridge? 04:26:21 I think she wants to go to university there. 04:26:31 cool 04:31:52 -!- n2liquid_ has joined. 04:31:52 -!- n2liquid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:39:34 -!- ogrom has joined. 04:42:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gnith). 05:00:18 Once I read something by someone who capitalized every word 05:00:52 the !!!batch specification? I guess that's not every word 05:00:54 a book title? 05:01:12 No, I mean many sentences. 05:01:18 PROBABLY MY BLOG 05:01:35 Not only that but the lines were also numbered even though the line numbers are not related to text items. 05:04:54 monqy: have you learned lenses yet 05:05:00 no 05:05:02 monqy: there's a new thing on the block to learn 05:05:06 monqy: co-lenses 05:05:12 co-lenses 05:05:16 What do co-lenses do? 05:05:26 zzo38: The dual of what lenses do. 05:07:18 It still doesn't help. Can you be more specific what its type and so on is? Does it make a category like lenses do? 05:08:58 Lenses aren't really a category, are they? 05:09:11 Lens s t a b = (s -> a, (s,b) -> t) 05:09:39 Colens s t a b = (b -> t, s -> Either t a) 05:09:56 Well, OK, a category. 05:10:01 But not a Category. :-( 05:10:13 : ( 05:11:47 monqy: you need a nose 05:11:49 here: 05:11:49 If you have the one with only two parameters instead of four, then there is the lens category (including the Category instance). 05:11:54 ⿐ 05:12:01 zzo38: Yes. 05:12:25 shachaf: where is colens 05:12:36 ? 05:12:43 monqy: it's projection 05:12:45 It's called Projection in lens. 05:12:49 ok :⿐) 05:12:58 monqy: much better 05:13:11 Nice. 05:13:22 目鼻口 05:13:29 ：⿐） 05:13:36 * pikhq_ wins 05:14:48 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:14:56 @tell elliott You know what you should do? 05:14:56 Consider it noted. 05:15:42 へのへのもへじ？ 05:19:59 -!- elliott has joined. 05:20:19 Well, I have SSL + IPv6 working. 05:20:20 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 05:20:32 But it's broken SSL certificate verification. :( 05:20:53 Seems to be a result of this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/irssi/+bug/573256 05:21:05 elliott: If you wrote a lazy syntax highlighter for Haskell. 05:21:12 I think I could work around it just by adding all the freenode servers I want to connect to to the irssi network rather than the round-robin? 05:21:24 shachaf: what should I do 05:21:44 elliott: ? 05:21:51 you sent me a lambdabot message 05:21:56 21:21 elliott: If you wrote a lazy syntax highlighter for Haskell. 05:22:09 Hmm, I might've changed my tense-thing in the middle there. 05:22:26 i don't want to do that 05:22:48 elliott: but http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/144biy/pretty_output_in_ghci_howto_in_comments/ :'( 05:23:58 Edit 2: You will need to either :seti -XNoMonomorphismRestriction or give myPrint an explicit type annotation. I happened to have the former already. 05:24:17 Shouldn't rewriting myPrint to not be pointfree work? 05:24:21 Sgeo: I don't care about that. 05:24:27 elliott: Someone bountied my stackoverflow answer! 05:24:32 How do I get my points? 05:24:52 Hmm, or maybe they bountied one of the other answers. 05:25:26 Or actually, nothing's wrong with a type annotation, right? 05:25:29 the points come automatically 05:25:50 But the asker person didn't pick best answer! 05:25:53 This is complicated. 05:26:05 then it's assigned automatically 05:26:22 shachaf: you should upvote http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9050725/call-cc-implementation/9050907#9050907 so my top-voted answer isn't to the question "How do you identify monadic design patterns?" 05:26:54 Hmm, you could get people to downvote that one instead. 05:26:57 hmm i don't even like how the latter answer words it at the start 05:26:59 That answer is long. 05:27:02 shachaf: yeah but then i would lose internet points 05:27:34 elliott: but how did you get a billion internet points without every getting more than 50 votes on an answer 05:27:45 by writing 343 answers 05:28:05 help 05:28:23 writing one great answer that immediately gets a huge number of votes doesn't even help that much anyway due to the 200 rep cap 05:28:32 (per day) 05:29:04 Why is there a cap? 05:29:05 fizzie: are you there i need help with this certificate thing!! 05:29:10 shachaf: long story 05:29:33 feel free to peruse the long and tedious history of posts at http://meta.stackoverflow.com/ if you want an answer 05:29:57 nothx 05:40:16 ion: are you the ion in http://bash.org/?152037 by the way 05:40:20 important questions 05:40:40 elliott: Nope. 05:40:43 I've asked before. 05:40:57 Nicknames should be unique! 05:46:29 I should go read the Facebook TOS 05:48:55 "For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). " 05:49:05 Why do they need a transferable and sub-licensable license? 05:50:09 so that they can grant reproduction rights to advertisers and other licensees and stuff 05:51:09 Honestly, I understand the rest of it, from a technical perspective 05:51:26 Just in terms of showing photos to peoples friends when their privacy settings are set such, for example 05:51:57 "You will not post unauthorized commercial communications (such as spam) on Facebook." 05:52:08 the main thing to get about facebook is you're the product, not the customer. the customers are ad companies and zynga and companies like that. the TOS is oriented to help the cusotmers. 05:52:36 How does one get authorization? Many companies have Facebook pages, which I can only assume are used for commercial communications 05:53:28 "You will not use Facebook to do anything unlawful, misleading, malicious, or discriminatory. 05:53:28 " 05:53:36 Uh. I'm not allowed to lie on Facebook? 05:54:15 TOSs aren't exactly meant to be followed to the letter, it's just for legal cases and shit 05:54:33 Sgeo: Yup. So, if you're gay you better be out. 05:55:26 I wonder if "don't mislead" would cover being gay and not telling anyone. Since you're only "misleading" them in that they assume you're straight because that's the cultural norm. 05:55:49 Curses be unto heteronormativity. 05:56:13 * Bike makes traditional hand gesture of agreement 05:57:05 What about April Fools jokes? 05:57:13 Such as "just got arrested for drunk driving" 05:57:14 Not actually misleading. 05:58:00 Had an April Fools Day where I was just posting statuses saying how I was going to a party, got drunk, had unprotected sex with some girl, and got arrested for drunk driving. 05:58:04 I don't think anyone believed it 05:58:17 -!- elliott has left. 05:59:20 "You will not transfer your account (including any Page or application you administer) to anyone without first getting our written permission. 05:59:20 " 05:59:40 That... seems annoying for companies. Unless the company is considered the administer the page, and not individual employees? 06:01:01 "You will not tag users or send email invitations to non-users without their consent. Facebook offers social reporting tools to enable users to provide feedback about tagging. 06:01:02 " 06:01:58 ...how does that even work? The tagging mechanisms don't require consent, do they? And sending email invitations to non-users... um, it's an invitation, how do you get consent to send an invitation? 06:02:06 Although I think that that section is geared more towards developers 06:03:29 In a section for developers: "You will not directly or indirectly transfer any data you receive from us to (or use such data in connection with) any ad network, ad exchange, data broker, or other advertising related toolset, even if a user consents to that transfer or use." 06:03:50 That's pretty blatant in terms of what Bike was saying before 06:03:54 -!- elliott has joined. 06:04:10 hi!! 06:04:25 hi elliott. helliott. 06:12:10 CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE 1542 is useless, isn't it? 06:13:38 maybe 06:13:54 i hear monqy knows about california 06:13:58 no 06:13:59 i dont 06:14:33 From what the Facebook TOS quoted, it's a thing about releases (of liability I guess) not applying in all circumstances. So, all an organization needs to do to get a fully general release is say that the other party waives it 06:14:56 are you still talking about facebook's terms of service jesus 06:15:43 I stopped. And didn't say everything I wanted to say, after you joined, because I figured that that's why you left 06:15:51 don't let me stop you 06:16:02 if #esoteric said only things i wanted it would be a very different place 06:23:01 ... I see this channel is full of respectful people, eh 06:23:08 That's rare, really 06:26:21 kmc: I missed the train south and now the next one won't be for another ~1.5 hours. 06:28:05 n2liquid_: we must be in different #esoterics 06:28:23 my esoteric is better than your esoteric. 06:28:44 yes 06:29:46 Well, I've only been here for this night, but it does seem peaceful 06:36:00 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:36:17 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 06:36:17 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 06:36:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:37:09 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu. 06:48:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:48:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 06:48:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:48:28 @tell fizzie does the client certificate thing work as good as sasl now that you're using it? with the cloak-guaranteed-to-take-effect-before-joining-channels stuff 06:48:28 Consider it noted. 06:50:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:51:45 -!- Gregor has changed nick to BabsSeed. 06:52:20 -!- BabsSeed has changed nick to Gregor. 07:01:19 -!- augur has joined. 07:02:13 -!- Gregor has changed nick to TheSmooze. 07:57:51 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 08:11:56 -!- aloril has joined. 08:16:07 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:20:11 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 08:20:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 08:23:52 -!- jfischoff has joined. 08:45:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:50:51 -!- n2liquid_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:52:23 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 09:08:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:15:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:16:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:22:33 @tell elliott I haven't actually tried reconnecting after setting it up. It worked for the first time, I think, but then again I still had the server pass thing set up, and that works too most of the time. 09:22:33 Consider it noted. 09:37:05 -!- punisher00 has joined. 09:41:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 10:11:47 -!- ifnspifn_ has quit (Quit: ifnspifn_). 10:13:11 -!- punisher00 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:13:59 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 10:15:39 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Client Quit). 10:21:47 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 10:21:54 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Client Quit). 10:53:44 -!- carado has joined. 10:54:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:28:30 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:56:24 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 12:11:13 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:24:56 "In fact, the odds of dying from a scorpion sting are one in 300 million. To put this in perspective: Your odds of dying by simply falling over in the shower are one in 65,000. In other words, if you find a scorpion in your shower tomorrow morning, the shower stall itself may still be the greater danger. 12:24:56 Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_19171_5-things-that-arent-nearly-as-dangerous-as-hollywood-thinks.html#ixzz2Dtf6HJYx" 12:25:05 ...screw you thingy 12:25:23 Am I allowed to facepalm at the misunderstanding of probability, or should I just accept it as a joke 12:25:37 uh 12:26:00 is that 1 in 300 million the population-wide probability of dying from a scorpion sting 12:26:09 in which case: :facepalm: 12:26:24 It links to http://www.bookofodds.com/Accidents-Death/Death-Rates/Odds/The-odds-a-person-will-die-from-being-stung-by-a-scorpion-in-a-year-are-1-in-299-400-000-US-2006 12:27:36 :facepalm: 12:28:21 It could still be true, I guess, but there's not enough information. 14:21:55 Sgeo: The reason why the odds of dying from a scorpion sting are so low is that scorpions don't live in most places that people do 14:22:14 If there is actually a scorpion there, your odds definitely go up 14:28:34 yes well done FreeFull 14:29:32 your ability to state what everyone else had already implicitly figured out is truly a boon to the channel 14:31:33 Well I am Captain Obvious, if that's not obvious 14:33:43 please stop being captain obvious then 14:41:25 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:51:22 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:54:34 -!- lambdabot has joined. 15:15:58 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 15:20:53 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:28 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 16:21:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 16:22:53 -!- yours_truly has joined. 16:33:31 -!- yours_truly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:42:03 please stop being captain obvious then <-- who should be captain obvious then? 16:42:23 this isn't a boat! 16:42:28 we don't need any captains 16:42:45 But then the discussion can go astray. 16:42:46 fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:43:02 Phantom_Hoover, I always thought of Captain Obvious like a superhero, like Captain America or whatever 16:43:13 now I'm curious as to what was originally intended in that phrase 16:43:27 mutiny 16:43:28 Captain Planet. 16:43:34 yeah like that 16:43:47 Lt. Cmdr. Obvious 16:44:05 "By your inanities combined, I am Captain Obvious!" 16:44:29 not a boat? I though I was aboard to cookieland 16:44:37 no 16:44:53 this is a spaceship to the planet of anticookies 16:45:07 8O 16:45:12 then we obviously need a Captain Obvious 16:45:21 fuck captain planet 16:45:34 fizzie: imo you should do some testing & also help me out w/ my new ssl problem 16:45:34 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:45:38 (i solved ssl+ipv6) 16:45:39 @messages 16:45:39 fizzie said 7h 23m 7s ago: I haven't actually tried reconnecting after setting it up. It worked for the first time, I think, but then again I still had the server pass thing set up, and that works 16:45:39 too most of the time. 16:45:54 his agenda of taking pollution "down to zero" puts one in mind of the fanatical de-industrialization agenda of the khmer rouge 16:46:39 #esoteric, number one channel for sociopolitical analysis of captain planet 16:46:56 shachaf: did you make it to a train 16:46:58 captain planet throws gi in a labour camp because she looks too intellectual 16:47:06 or did you just have to run along the tracks at high speed yelling "CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKER" 16:47:24 (thank you wikipedia for that one) 16:48:02 Phantom_Hoover, heh what? 16:48:37 also who is gi? 16:48:44 i have never seen captain planet or indeed heard of it beyond 80s pop culture references 16:48:51 same here 16:49:15 I have watched it, it was broadcast in Finland. 16:49:26 yes fizzie but you are old! 16:49:28 in college we had a house office named "captain planet" 16:49:39 they were charged with taking care of all the living things in the house 16:49:41 primarily the hot tub 16:50:03 how is that living 16:50:07 Phantom_Hoover: It was also made in 1990-1996, so it's curious it appears in 80s pop culture. 16:50:28 everything before ~1998 is '80s' to me 16:50:28 it's a complex ecosystem 16:50:40 kmc, is it like the it crowd rainforest 16:50:46 haven't seen 16:51:39 Helsinki University has a greenhouse warmed by computer exhaust heat on top of the Exactum building. 16:51:51 kmc, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct1-zq8gf_0 16:51:59 fizzie: nice 16:52:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmmfmYID1Yw -- you can see it there. 16:52:26 Or you can see the rack, but the vaguely transparent plastic thing behind it is a greenhouse. 16:53:20 (I saw the link somewhere a while ago.) 16:54:04 heh he has a shirt with the pac man kill screen 16:55:07 yeah, the it crowd is good with having actual nerdy references in the background 16:56:25 there are some eff posters around the place too, and a picture of bob dobbs 16:57:12 nice 16:57:22 'This show's like "The Big Bang Theory" except it doesn't suck a Big Franch Dick.' 16:57:27 well put, random youtube idiot 16:58:06 (franch, as everyone knows, is a condiment composed of a mixture of french and ranch dressing) 16:58:17 even assuming that's a baffling typo for french, since when were french dicks known for their size? 16:58:51 well if they were, the adjective wouldn't be necessary 16:59:04 insert coq joke here 16:59:51 'Twenty years ago, I wrote a comedy in which a scientist accidentally kills God and feels really terrible about it. Meanwhile, his former lab assistant goes on to fame and fortune by inventing something called "Franch" -- a salad dressing that's half-French, half-ranch.' 17:00:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmmfmYID1Yw -- you can see it there. <--- lol what? 17:00:18 servers out in the open? 17:00:21 whaaaat 17:00:26 Vorpal: It's not out in the open. 17:00:31 it looks like it? 17:00:32 well they do have that cubicle thing 17:00:35 Vorpal: There's a transparent plastic in front of the rack. 17:00:59 Vorpal: But yes, it's a "Experimental Free Air Cooling setup". 17:01:32 fizzie, looks like he is removing snow directly from the servers but oh well 17:02:14 fizzie, what are they talking about btw? 17:02:31 There's a translation in the comments, though it's a bit off. 17:02:35 "Person 1: this is a really stupid idea" "Person 2: No no, it will just work" 17:02:44 "Person 1: you idiot" 17:03:03 -!- Bike has joined. 17:03:19 It's something like "Here is Mikko doing server administration." "Works well!" "And that's how we do a little clean" 17:03:39 reminds me of http://www.afrotechmods.com/ 17:04:17 in particular http://www.afrotechmods.com/papercooling.htm 17:04:35 https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6F8oAMFyZtk/T2iGlBvcFaI/AAAAAAAACVs/GJwiMc8Oo94/s1152/IMG_20120320_145825.jpg shows the other side of the rack. 17:04:55 fizzie, it might become too cold for the servers as well hm 17:05:21 Vorpal: The blog mentions they haven't had any problems at -30 degrees Celsius or so. 17:05:23 17:05:26 this page is as old as kmc 17:05:28 hm 17:05:44 haha 17:06:25 Vorpal: Most of their computer centers are more traditional, I think this is more of a hobby experiment. 17:06:39 http://afrotechmods.com/stupid/memory/memory.htm 17:08:13 http://totl.net/Eunuch/ 17:08:48 (i forget, is that one of the things everyone's seen but some twat always posts it) 17:09:29 why doesn't the heat of the servers melt the snow and create horrible water problems? 17:10:36 olsner: That's exactly what one of the comments asked, I think. 17:10:49 I don't have any sort of answer. 17:11:10 Except that water flows down, I suppose you can sort of guide it elsewhere. 17:11:31 I suppose it could be cold enough that nothing in the server is above freezing 17:11:36 The linked blog has a lot of content about the design of the box around it. 17:12:19 The snow is going to melt before summer, anyway, so I'm sure they've considered water. 17:12:30 Also, it sometimes rains. 17:19:22 what if a moose tries to eat the servers 17:20:07 the servers are on the roof of the university building, so no mooses there (hopefully) 17:20:59 ah 17:26:50 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:27:40 -!- quintopia has joined. 17:31:01 -!- jfischoff has joined. 17:48:43 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 18:03:06 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 18:03:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:12:49 -!- jfischoff has joined. 18:17:50 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:19:05 -!- ogrom has left. 18:42:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:42:54 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:42:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:46:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:47:52 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 18:50:26 -!- jfischoff has joined. 18:51:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:52:44 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:03:26 oi elliott 19:03:51 have you by any chance done that thing you've claimed you'll do for like a week 19:06:37 tonight 19:06:37 promise 19:06:39 bug me 19:07:06 it's already tonight! 19:08:33 it's evening! 19:08:48 hmm you may have a point there 19:08:59 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 19:14:47 elliott: I’m not. 19:15:02 elliott: It’s a fake ion. 19:17:31 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 19:17:45 ion: did you see that fancy new edwardk exported unsafeCoerce 19:18:50 I saw the paste, didn’t look at “vacuous” yet. 19:19:05 ion: the implementation is vacuous = unsafeCoerce 19:19:09 heh 19:19:16 because if you have a legit functor f, you can implement f Void -> f a that way 19:19:30 unfortunately, people can lie! 19:19:35 hehe 19:19:41 so (Functor f) => f Void -> f a actually means forall f. f Void -> f a 19:19:48 which means Iso Void Void -> Iso Void a 19:19:55 which means (a -> Void, Void -> a) 19:20:04 er, with a forall on each, of course 19:20:07 which means compose them and you get a -> b 19:20:09 :-) 19:33:56 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:36:16 You could write it with empty case blocks if it were allowed, such as (fmap $ \x -> case x of {}) 19:37:03 But you could use undefined instead. 19:38:59 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 19:42:24 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:44:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:52:27 -!- atriq has joined. 20:00:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting into new kernel). 20:09:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:10:44 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:10:45 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:10:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:12:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:13:03 !help languages 20:13:04 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 20:13:13 oerjan: I found an exported unsafeCoerce bug in an edwardk package! 20:13:37 !help im trapped in a #esoteric factory 20:13:38 *GASP* 20:13:38 ​Sorry, I have no help for im_trapped_in_a__esoteric_factory! 20:13:42 -!- david_werecat has joined. 20:13:43 oerjan: You know the void package? 20:13:54 no, not really 20:13:55 And its unsafeCoerce trick for implementing vacuous :: (Functor f) => f Void -> f a? 20:14:04 Because that works for all functors. 20:14:07 WELL, http://hpaste.org/78675 20:14:10 elliott: pfft found that bug like a year ago 20:14:16 srsly though good work 20:14:23 kmc: haha did you really 20:14:30 !malbolge ('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>}= 20:14:32 Hello World! 20:14:37 i see. 20:14:43 it is funny because this is the second time one of edwardk's "safe" unsafeCoerces has turned out to result in an external unsafeCoerce 20:14:46 in a week 20:15:00 admittedly the first one was only in the git version of lens and never released 20:15:01 -!- carado has joined. 20:15:07 http://hpaste.org/52660 20:15:27 different bug i guess 20:15:38 * oerjan is testing the Malbolge hello world to see what it actually prints, because of a strange edit war on wikipedia. 20:16:31 oerjan: But wouldn't that be ORIGINAL RESEARCH? 20:16:35 kmc: did you tell edwardk :P 20:17:43 fizzie: OH WHOOPS 20:18:30 !malbolge a 20:18:31 invalid character in source file 20:18:34 !malbolge ( 20:18:34 No output. 20:18:38 !malbolge ()()((() 20:18:39 invalid character in source file 20:18:49 !malbolge (|||(|(|(|(((|((|(| 20:18:49 invalid character in source file 20:18:50 kmc: YOur bug is the same one, I think, or pretty close. 20:18:52 oerjan: You must write a published book about Malbolge Hello Worlds, and then wait until someone else writes a book that refers to your book, and then you can rely on that. 20:19:00 elliott: i did 20:19:28 did he not fix it 20:19:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:19:31 elliott: ok so it's an unsafeCoerce that is only safe if the Functor instance actually satisfies the laws, presumably? 20:19:33 he said he'd fix it when i showed him this one! 20:19:35 Wait wait wait 20:19:38 oerjan: right 20:19:40 Does EgoBot do assembly 20:19:47 oerjan: any data type that is an actual functor will admit that unsafeCoerce implementation, I think 20:19:48 Or is asm some other esoteric language 20:19:55 or at least, I can't think of a counterexample 20:20:00 !asm mov eax, 1 20:20:00 maybe there is one with fancy GADT type family stuff 20:20:01 Does not compile. 20:20:16 FreeFull: There's "asm" in both the esoteric and other lists. 20:20:58 !c int main() { printf("%d\n", 1); return 0;} 20:21:01 for some reason I thought of this unsafeCoerce bug while trying to get to sleep 20:21:02 1 20:21:08 after not having looked at or used the void package in ages 20:21:14 I wonder 20:21:46 !c int main() { int arr[1]; int i; for(i=0;;i++) { arr[i] = i; } return 0; } 20:21:48 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 17341 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 20:22:01 FreeFull: The !asm runs /interps/gcccomp/gcccomp assembler which will try to gcc yourcode.s. 20:22:15 FreeFull: So you need to write it in x86-64 AT&T assenbler. 20:22:16 Oh, AT&T syntax 20:22:17 Evil 20:22:29 !asm mov 1, @eax 20:22:31 Does not compile. 20:22:35 That's not what it looks like. 20:22:40 !asm mov $1, %eax 20:22:41 !asm mov 1, %eax 20:22:42 No output. 20:22:43 ​./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 17509 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 20:22:48 !asm mov $1, %eax 20:22:49 No output. 20:22:57 mov 1, %eax would be intel mov eax, [1]. 20:23:04 Ah, without $ it's a memory address 20:23:12 There's also .globl main; main: pushq %rbp; movq %rsp, %rbp; prependend automatically, and movl $0, %eax; leave; ret; suffixed. 20:24:09 can !asm do anything reasonably nifty 20:24:18 fizzie: wanna hear a joke? 20:24:20 fizzie: AT&T syntax 20:24:37 !asm .extern puts; .data; hello: .asciz "hello there"; .text; mov $hello, %rdi; call puts 20:24:39 hello there 20:24:42 Nifty, eh? 20:27:02 FreeFull: btw the error you got on the Malbolge is because every position in the program allows a varying set of 8 bytes, namely the ones which decrypt to actual commands at that spot. 20:27:18 and no other byte is allowed at that spot 20:27:21 oerjan: I know 20:28:05 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 20:30:05 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:31:28 -!- ogrom has left. 20:35:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:35:55 -!- ashet4 has joined. 20:38:27 wait when did that become the topic 20:39:20 you only just noticed? 20:39:27 yes? 20:39:41 why would i look at the topic, it's not like it ever contains any useful information 20:40:45 your ability to state what everyone else had already implicitly figured out is truly a boon to the channel <-- hey don't be too hard on him, i was tempted myself. even while logreading. 20:41:26 you don't make a habit of it 20:41:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: Babies are usually not eaten owing to their repugnant looks, as well as their viscosity and unpleasant habits. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:41:44 improvement, yes? 20:41:54 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 20:42:02 * oerjan swats elliott -----### 20:42:14 bloody minimalists 20:42:24 -!- elliott has set topic: . 20:42:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H. 20:43:00 * oerjan wonders if that actually breaks any clients 20:43:06 of course not 20:43:24 My client doesn't support topics shorter than 28 characters 20:43:35 no because i just typed in a caret followed by an h 20:43:44 Phantom_Hoover: that might explain it. 20:43:54 -!- elliott has set topic: caret h. 20:43:59 -!- nooodl__ has set topic. 20:44:00 -!- oerjan has set topic. 20:44:10 -!- atriq has set topic: carrot ache. 20:44:13 ANYONE BROKEN YET? 20:44:17 oerjan: how do you insert the actual Ctrl+H with irssi 20:44:23 elliott: ^V^H 20:44:35 oerjan: doesn't work for me :( 20:44:37 -!- nooodl__ has set topic: /topic: the new way to chat. 20:44:39 maybe it is mosh's fault 20:44:53 20:44:56 No 20:45:01 ^V^H doesn't work in irssi 20:45:12 -!- atriq has set topic: /topic: the new way to chat | How arre you? | *-r. 20:45:14 hm i may have set a binding myself 20:45:15 on x-chat ctrl+shift+u-8 works but that's probably not the case in irssi 20:45:30 ^V escape_char 20:45:36 You need to /bind -delete ^H 20:45:43 Then you can just do ctrl-h 20:46:06 elliott: ^ the above binding is what i have, and allows me to do that with any control char 20:46:42 oerjan: ah 20:46:45 FreeFull: that's not what i want to do 20:46:53 i probably set it to resemble vim in that respect 20:48:40 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/forget,_when_up_to_one%27s_neck_in_alligators,_that_the_mission_is_to_drain_the_swamp 20:49:25 i'd say that's just having your priorities straight 20:49:37 is that an actual term anyone has ever used 20:50:04 Bike: let's not forget, when up to one's neck in alligators, that the mission is to drain the swamp. it doesn't matter whether anyone has *used* the term. 20:50:33 ¬_¬ 20:50:37 elliott: i've also bound home to scroll_start and end to scroll_end 20:50:46 Why is a lot of things making me feel guilty 20:51:04 It's not as if those nuns didn't deserve to be guillotined... 20:52:23 elliott: thanks for that idiom 20:52:25 because i kept wanting to do that, while they by default just duplicated ^A and ^E. iirc. 20:52:32 nooodl__: please dont use that idiom 20:52:40 i'm sorry 20:52:43 it's too good 20:55:00 oerjan: They are beginning_of_line and end_of_line by default, yes. 20:55:26 does ecape_char even have a default binding 20:55:41 It does not. At least it wasn't bound to anything for me. 20:55:49 Now it is bound to ^V IT'S SPREADING 20:56:37 me too 20:56:50 maybe i can bind something to type "/win " for me 20:56:55 that would be cool 20:57:21 /lose big 20:57:53 yay! 21:03:03 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 21:03:57 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:04:04 -!- hagb4rd2 has changed nick to hagb4rd. 21:10:35 kmc: Yes. 21:13:45 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 21:15:29 oerjan: But how am I meant to get to the start or end of what I typed then 21:16:43 FreeFull: ^A and ^E, i said 21:17:25 in my initial setup, those had the same bindings as home and end. so i changed one pair to something else useful. 21:17:43 and mess things up 21:17:53 mindfuck factor 21:18:11 21:16:34 -!- TuxBlackEdo [~TuxBlackE@unaffiliated/tuxblackedo] has joined ##crypto 21:18:14 21:17:16 hey i just met you, and this is crazy, but here is a cyphertext, crack it for me maybe? 21:18:20 regretting joining this channel so i could let lambdabot in it 21:18:49 elliott: well if you can now find a one-line lambdabot command to crack it, all will be well. 21:19:46 oerjan: I have ^A as my tmux key 21:19:52 And if I pass ^A through 21:19:58 I have that make a literal 21:20:08 For manually making CTCPs 21:20:53 FreeFull: fine, we can assume there's a reason irssi allows personal settings. 21:21:25 Because otherwise nobody would use it? 21:21:41 exactly 21:21:49 This IRC client makes CTRL+A send a literal CTRL+A for such purpose; to send other controls literal requires CTRL+P at first. 21:26:27 I keep using ^A and ^E for start_of_line/end_of_line even though it's under screen; I just ^Aa all the time. It's very stupid. 21:26:37 have you considered changing your screen key 21:26:40 to not be stupid 21:27:03 I think that would just make me type a lot of ^As everywhere. 21:27:04 ^A is the most convienient for me 21:27:37 The default key for tmux is ^B or some shizz 21:28:31 It's not as if I could think and operate a computer at the same time, so I have to keep doing the stupid thing. 21:29:52 fizzie: Is there a way to do a "/window list" that lists in the current buffer? 21:29:55 Current window. 21:29:57 Thing. 21:30:18 * oerjan suddenly imagines an intelligent race that cannot think and act at the same time, but must do all actions according to (short) preplanned algorithms 21:30:30 elliott: You can not have a status window at all, I think that would do it. 21:30:43 fizzie: you could try to pawlow self-conditioning 21:30:46 fizzie: that is not terribly satisfying 21:30:58 *species 21:31:01 fizzie: i would be ok with a way to write a key combo that switches to the status window and does /window list and then types "/window " for me i guess 21:31:02 fizzie: everytime you use type ^A bite yourself 21:31:06 so i could do like ^W 21:31:52 elliott: What about Alt number? 21:32:00 and once an algorithm has started, it cannot be halted, except according to its own rules, and no thinking can happen simultaneously. 21:32:29 shachaf: that doesn't show me a list. this is for when i forget which number is which 21:32:39 elliott: You can probably do that switch-to-status thing. 21:32:51 elliott: Just type the name in? 21:33:15 and the algorithms are too short to simulate any significant intelligence. 21:33:22 "/win goto the-full-name" is a bit long. 21:33:28 I would accept "/w substring" 21:34:10 oi elliott 21:34:15 it's definitely tonight 21:34:25 hm it occurs to me that such an intelligence species would get around this by cooperation. 21:34:30 *-nt 21:34:44 Phantom_Hoover: not quite 21:34:47 I should bind scroll_start and scroll_end to something 21:34:53 Might be useful 21:35:14 elliott: "/bind X multi change_window 1;command window list;insert_text /win " (with the trailing space) where X is your key, I think. 21:35:16 elliott, are you getting addicted to lens? 21:35:17 switch (core.opcode_index+Fetchb()) { 21:35:18 #include "core_normal/prefix_none.h" 21:35:18 #include "core_normal/prefix_0f.h" 21:35:18 #include "core_normal/prefix_66.h" 21:35:36 intelligence seems not be the best method for multitasking 21:35:39 atriq: more like addicted to HAPPINESS 21:35:54 fizzie: Okay, let's try this. (Is ^W bound to anything by default?) 21:36:05 elliott: It's bound to the usual delete-word thing. 21:36:22 Oh, right. 21:36:23 I use that. 21:36:38 what are lenses and can they be given a succinct, incomprehensible definition in terms of category theory 21:37:39 There to Functors as something else is to Applicatives 21:38:17 atriq: Traversables? 21:38:26 * oerjan vaguely recalls something about that 21:38:31 No, something more category theoryish 21:39:21 A lens is not a functor, although there is functor from category of isomorphisms of (->) to Lens, I think. 21:39:22 i thought lens had a spot where you put in either Functor or Applicative and the former gave you an ordinary lens 21:39:27 Phantom_Hoover, basically, they use functors to generalize functions and setters to the SAME THING 21:39:35 oerjan, yes 21:40:05 But perhaps they could be made on other categories too, I don't know 21:40:40 Phantom_Hoover: store comonad coalgebra or something 21:41:05 ah: "Lenses are the coalgebras for the costate comonad" 21:41:24 are colenses algebras for the state monad 21:41:33 ask shachaf 21:41:41 * oerjan might perhaps look at lens properly some day. 21:41:56 although maybe not until after upgrading the platform. 21:42:07 hi 21:42:08 fizzie: I just made lots of alt+shift and then ^Z bindings 21:42:14 i think i'm at least two versions behind. 21:42:22 I'll do ^Z-shift or ^Z-alt when I'll need it 21:42:23 What would an algebra in the state monad even look like 21:42:24 Conans are to good cooperation what nans are to good operation. 21:42:28 "State b a -> a"? 21:42:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:42:30 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 21:42:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:42:54 fizzie: i thought Conans were barbarians. 21:43:08 atriq: Yep. 21:43:13 oerjan, it's cool, nans are grandmothers 21:43:15 I guess algebra of state monad would be like ((s -> (a, s)) -> a) 21:44:49 A grandmother certainly isn't a number 21:44:54 except that Conan that is a comedian. i guess his nan is rather median, then. 21:45:02 and conan is an instance of barbarian 21:45:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:45:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:45:38 Nan the Cobarbarian. 21:47:34 no remorse & no regret 21:47:48 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:49:47 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:51:21 OMG an elf siege 21:51:26 I've never had an elf siege before 21:51:50 kmc: edwardk fixed it 21:52:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:52:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:53:17 heh 21:54:52 Phantom_Hoover: do the elves walk around saying "siege heil"? 21:55:09 perhaps 21:59:02 Nan the Cobarbarian. <-- I read that as "Nam" 21:59:14 and was wondering why you were joking about Indian food 22:02:56 Vorpal, 22:03:04 the indian bread is called 'naan' 22:03:43 It's flat and tasty 22:03:43 hm, is that how it is written in Swedish though? *checks* 22:03:45 woah that's a palindrome 22:03:59 nån 22:04:06 Phantom_Hoover, yeah you are right 22:04:51 Phantom_Hoover: Sometimes also plain 'nan'; I refer to it as "not-a-number bread" personally. 22:05:02 palindrome is disappointing because it's not autological 22:05:35 fizzie: I haven't seen bread that was a number 22:05:37 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:06:07 "Nam" is also a Finnish interjection much the same as the English "yum". 22:06:16 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nam#Interjection agrees. 22:06:18 fizzie, i bet you're really popular with all the local takeaways 22:06:26 Nom nom nom 22:07:27 Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I've ever had to mention it to one of those; the not-a-number designation has pretty much been confined to discussions at home about what to buy from the store. 22:08:21 shachaf: do you know how hard it is to segfault DOSBox with bad guest code? if you answered "not at all hard" then you are correct 22:08:43 printf '\x62\xe5' > foo.com && dosbox foo.com 22:09:00 Hey, Volapük also has the word "nam". 22:09:07 kmc: Hell, I have it happen even with valid DOS programs 22:09:12 "Etymology: Reversal of “man”, from Latin manus (“hand”)." 22:09:24 mandible 22:09:25 (It means "hand".) 22:09:26 kmc: That's not very hard. 22:10:28 DOSBox doesn't check segment limits either. :/ 22:11:53 Its OPL emulation seems better than worse though 22:12:21 You can poke the VGA memory with a xor ax, ax; mov ds, ax; mov eax, 0xa0000; mov byte [eax], 42 in it. 22:12:59 What would happen on a 386 machine in 16 bit mode with that code? 22:13:07 Or a 486 22:14:47 I am not entirely sure, but I'd guess an exception in at least virtual-8086 mode; maybe not in real-address mode. 22:15:27 Perhaps in real-address mode too. 22:15:30 sadly that segfault is only a call to a NULL function pointer 22:16:04 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:55 "In the real-address mode, vector 13 is the segment overrun exception" just going by the name, that could happen. 22:19:34 -!- nys has joined. 22:21:17 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:22:17 so i just got this idea 22:22:20 http://pastebin.com/UnfL0Z7T 22:22:30 kmc: Looks like segfaults aren't very hard to come by. 22:22:41 Hmm, or maybe I was just wrong. 22:26:09 what did you observe? 22:26:39 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:28:08 Hm, printf '\x44\x51' > foo.com && dosbox foo.com 22:28:25 Unlike 62 e5, this isn't an invalid instruction. 22:28:36 It's just inc sp; push cx 22:28:58 So overwrite whatever was on top of stack 22:29:13 Right. 22:29:20 I don't *think* that's supposed to segfault it... 22:29:24 But will the program terminate, or probably it will result something invalid and break it? 22:29:29 segfaults my Debian DOSBox 0.74 but not the SVN trunk version 22:29:34 -!- aloril has joined. 22:30:32 shachaf: I think the top of the stack would contain the return to dos 22:30:43 But that shouldn't matter 22:31:58 kmc: Anyway there are a bunch of other 2-byte .com files that will crash it. 22:32:09 did you try them all? 22:32:33 To return to DOS using the stack I think you will need a RET instruction, though. 22:32:38 Yeah 22:32:40 No. 22:32:46 I generated them all but trying them is a hassle. 22:32:49 Otherwise the CPU would just go past your program and then execute whatever 22:35:02 seems the guest can install a callback for certain events (not the ISA-provided interrupt vector mechanism but some DOSBox thing) and the default callback is "jump to address 0 in the host" 22:35:32 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:36:30 Is that implementing the "mount" command? 22:37:08 -!- nys has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:37:21 no idea 22:41:15 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:42:19 -!- monqy has joined. 22:44:31 kmc: How did you come across it? 22:44:40 randomly 22:46:06 -!- nys has joined. 22:46:15 oi elliott 22:46:21 oi 22:46:40 its not night yet 22:47:39 have you really not 22:47:42 started the fortess yetr 22:47:48 are you ever going to.......................... 22:48:20 yes 22:48:35 one step at a time man! 22:48:47 first, get df working (come on you must have done this) 22:48:59 i have to come up with a way to make sure Phantom_Hoover won't cheat!! 22:49:06 something about cats and explosoins 22:49:12 elliott: imo don't play df btw 22:49:26 playing df means not fixing lens : ) 22:49:55 monqy: What happened to your nose? 22:50:17 it's invisible 22:50:27 ⿐ 22:50:28 alt. stylized out 22:50:54 alt. it's a " " 22:50:59 alt. can't you see it???? 22:51:14 :3) 22:51:26 no 22:51:30 monqy: whats alt. 22:51:33 is it like ctrl 22:51:35 alternatively 22:51:47 is it like meta 22:51:53 super 22:53:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:54:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:57:38 @tell ais523 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Carriage#Representation_erasure 22:57:38 Consider it noted. 23:21:34 my god it's full of (5-legged) stars 23:25:45 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:44:28 Arc_Koen: *MWAHAHAHA* 23:44:57 do you not say "five-legged"? 23:45:41 i think five-pointed is more common, although my maniackal laugh was not about that. 23:47:02 where do i know that from? 23:47:16 it sounds familiar 23:47:25 there's even a wp article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-pointed_star 23:50:33 though i find legs more accurate than points since it 10 of them 23:50:39 it has 23:51:00 pentagram has 5, right 23:51:16 Yes 23:51:37 Arc_Koen: um isn't the mutual recursion in ocaml solved the same way with types as with functions, by using "and"? 23:52:08 you can do that? 23:52:15 * Arc_Koen will try in 3.2 seconds 23:52:32 * oerjan keeps count 23:53:04 IT WORKS 23:53:06 man 23:53:09 that was simple 23:53:12 * oerjan does a little dance 23:53:39 and I had always thought "it's stupid that you can do mutual recursion for variables but not for types" 23:54:05 that's kind of a problem I have, though 23:54:40 for instance when playing a board game and my opponent does something unexpected I will usually think "uh, that's a weird move" rather than "ok, now, why did he do that?" 23:55:16 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 23:56:10 obviously this is simpler in haskell >:) 23:56:11 on the other hand this would pretty much depend on the move 23:56:55 is there a native operator in haskell to get the cartesian product? 23:57:12 how can it be simpler than "use and" 23:57:15 > liftM2 (,) "may" "be" 23:57:17 [('m','b'),('m','e'),('a','b'),('a','e'),('y','b'),('y','e')] 23:57:47 okay 23:58:51 couldn't it be more like may X be? 23:58:57 Bike: admittedly for values/functions you also need to use "rec", i think 23:59:33 hagb4rd: it's not _that_ often you need it i think... 2012-12-03: 00:00:03 not really no.. at least not for now 00:00:21 @hoogle f a -> f b -> f (a,b) 00:00:22 Data.Sequence zip :: Seq a -> Seq b -> Seq (a, b) 00:00:22 Prelude zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:00:22 Data.List zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:00:25 you can just define an operator for it if you want 00:00:35 wrong function 00:00:38 yea 00:00:39 with idiom brackets it'd be (| (a,b) |) :P 00:01:01 Would it really? 00:01:11 something like that 00:02:09 @hoogle Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f (a,b) 00:02:09 Data.Sequence zip :: Seq a -> Seq b -> Seq (a, b) 00:02:10 Prelude zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:02:10 Data.List zip :: [a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] 00:02:17 bad hoogle 00:02:53 zzo38 has been suggesting this function, i think :) 00:03:07 it's an alternative base function for applicatives 00:03:39 If you are doing applicative (not zip) then for f a -> f b -> f (a,b) you will have uncurry liftPair or liftA2 (,) 00:04:00 and more connected to the category theory way of looking at it. 00:04:02 I called it the liftPair which I think should be one of the class methods for Applicative 00:04:35 thx a lot 00:04:59 @hoogle (><) 00:04:59 Test.QuickCheck.Arbitrary (><) :: (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) 00:04:59 Test.QuickCheck (><) :: (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) -> (Gen a -> Gen a) 00:04:59 Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d) 00:05:41 >< is used, but not in a very basic library, i think 00:10:14 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:13:12 -!- soundnfury has joined. 00:20:33 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:27:28 -!- jfischoff has joined. 00:58:27 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:58:55 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 01:09:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:42 what 01:23:43 what 01:23:56 I just begin to watch the next stargate episode 01:24:07 and it started by a "previously in stargate sg-1..." 01:24:09 and 01:24:18 WHAT THE HECK OF A SPOILER IS THAT THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT PREVIOUS 01:24:36 cute ewoks coming out of everywhere 01:24:43 weeee arrrre the fuuurrrrrlings 01:24:52 daniel jackson: we finally get to meet you! 01:24:54 doing that for a time travel episode would be a mindscrew 01:24:57 I THOUGHT THEY DIDN'T EXIST 01:25:03 haha 01:25:11 yeah it would 01:25:41 I think there was a series called "stargate gravity" that was canceled very early because it was too much of a mindscrew 01:25:46 ihavetofindthat 01:25:57 anyway, back to episode *hoping it's a joke* 01:26:35 . 01:26:43 (it is) 01:33:57 Arc_Koen: regarding your last edit, if it's like haskell -rectypes is only needed when there is no named constructor between a type and its recursed appearance. 01:34:21 (well haskell doesn't have -rectypes, but that's when you get an error.) 01:34:36 Arc_Koen: that episode was awesome. 01:35:46 value constructor, that is. 01:36:41 so if you removed _both_ "A of" and "B of", it would be needed, but having at least one of them is enough. 01:42:22 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:46:57 wine doesn't provide any isolation against malicious windows programs right 01:47:03 like they can still execute native linux syscalls i think 01:48:10 are you asking because your system has been compromised by a Fallout crack 01:49:04 it hasn't been compromised yet ;) 01:49:49 Fallout for DOS, right? 01:50:06 kmc: What's with the dosbox and WINE thing? 01:52:07 well you see 01:52:12 i am excited about grand theft auto v 01:52:18 coming out next year 01:52:26 so i decided to play grand theft auto i in dosbox 01:52:31 but i realized it sucks 01:52:43 so now i am trying to play san andreas in wine 01:54:50 great i'm supposed to get wine from multiarch now 01:54:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:02 How do you get WINE in Debian anyway? 01:55:04 i'm sure this will not in any way ruin my entire system and cause apt to segfault randomly like last time 01:55:10 shachaf: the usual way? 01:55:57 Hmm. 01:56:09 At one point the package wasn't available in testing. 01:56:16 Even though it was in stable and unstable. 01:56:19 Looks like it's back. 01:56:28 I still get that issue occasionally with other packages. 02:03:26 -!- PieBotN has joined. 02:06:11 i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft 02:06:23 i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:06:51 Hmm, WINE ran Red Alert 3 better than Windows for me at one point. 02:07:01 oh nice 02:07:09 i guess i did run about half of deus ex too 02:07:12 didn't totally work 02:07:28 It also ran a bunch of other things. 02:07:34 Diablo II worked well. 02:08:12 `addquote i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:08:24 860) i love how allegedly wine can run all of these different programs but the only one i can actually run is starcraft i think wine may secretly be a cleanroom reimplementation of starcraft 02:09:10 Shattered Galaxy worked in WINE for me some years ago 02:09:21 ...the UI looks like Starcraft, I think 02:09:59 are you sure you weren't actually playing starcraft 02:10:35 oerjan: hmm, right 02:10:43 wtf I tried going to wine.appdb.com derp 02:11:05 that seems like a very primitive way to recognize troublesome recursive types 02:11:18 http://appdb.winehq.org/appimage.php?iId=12758 02:11:30 especially for a language like Ocaml which is supposed to be good at that kind of stuff 02:11:57 Bike: yeah it was great :) 02:12:03 it didn't really have an ending though 02:12:11 and it felt really really short 02:12:23 Arc_Koen: well the thing i've heard is that if you don't have that rule, you very often get things that type well if you leave out arguments 02:12:54 can you rephrase? 02:13:00 I'm notsure I understand 02:13:20 missing or extra arguments to functions often end up not giving type errors if you allow recursive types. 02:13:29 Wait, does Starcraft look like that image? I've never actually played 02:13:39 oh, right 02:13:57 yes for instance with "('a -> 'a) as 'a" 02:14:00 yeah 02:15:08 so it's not about preventing nonsensical data structures? 02:15:26 for haskell, they have newtype which always compiles as no extra overhead, so it's not _necessary_ to use recursive types for anything. 02:16:01 for instance if you define type 'a endless = 'a * 'a endless 02:16:51 i guess it prevents nonsensical data structures too, although in haskell data Stream a = Stream a (Stream a) is a perfectly useful type for always infinite lists 02:17:30 and more or less the same as what you wrote, underneath 02:17:37 # type a = a;; 02:17:37 Error: The type abbreviation a is cyclic 02:17:38 # type a = A of a;; 02:17:38 type a = A of a 02:17:56 soooooooooo not so useful after all 02:18:24 oh, wait, it works 02:18:31 let rec x = A x 02:19:47 yeah ocaml has special support for cyclic constants 02:20:34 :k Mu 02:20:36 (* -> *) -> * 02:20:59 > fix (Mu . Identity) 02:21:01 Not in scope: data constructor `Mu' 02:21:24 > fix (Fix . Identity) 02:21:26 Not in scope: data constructor `Fix' 02:21:29 kmc: Is Starcraft good? 02:21:33 Are there any good RTSes? :-( 02:21:35 darn what was it called 02:22:07 @type In 02:22:08 f (Mu f) -> Mu f 02:22:16 that? 02:22:18 oh right 02:22:24 @src Mu 02:22:24 newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } 02:22:34 > fix (In . Identity) 02:22:35 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show 02:22:35 (Data.Functor.Identity.I... 02:22:36 @src Rec -- better?? 02:22:36 Source not found. Just what do you think you're doing Dave? 02:22:41 bah 02:22:43 I guess not. 02:22:48 > fix (In . Just) 02:22:50 In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (Just (In (J... 02:23:17 In? 02:23:20 In. 02:23:21 Oh 02:23:44 @ty InR 02:23:46 (Rec a -> a) -> Rec a 02:23:51 better than In?? 02:24:40 shachaf: not the same purpose 02:24:54 oerjan: "better" is a total ordering on all objects. 02:24:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:25:34 For example, InR is better than In, and In is better than bell peppers 02:26:47 objects that think "better" is not a total ordering on all objects are better than objects that think "better" is a total ordering on all objects 02:27:18 Objects that don't think are better than both of those. 02:27:27 I think "better" is not even a partial ordering 02:27:38 also, i like bell peppers 02:27:51 I also think "better" is not always transitive. 02:28:04 zzo38, is a computer that works not better than a broken computer? 02:28:13 Caltrain is not always transitive. :-( 02:28:30 Sgeo: depends. was it trying to kill you before it broke? 02:29:03 oerjan: Good point I suppose. 02:29:17 However, I meant is not *always* transitive; it is sometimes transitive. 02:31:25 if x <= y or y <= x always holds, then any three objects must have some transitivity among them. 02:32:46 (clarifying and then proving the above statement left as an exercise.) 02:34:33 Well, in a partial ordering and in a total ordering you would have if x<=y and y<=x and x=y. A partial ordering is the same as a thin category, isn't it? 02:35:08 (They may be different even though equal, I guess?) 02:35:18 Also, what is better than something else, also means, is better in what way? 02:37:40 @quote edwardk ieee 02:37:40 edwardk says: type level ieee floats are a crime against nature. i had to implement them in c++ for template meta programming once. never ever again 02:37:45 kmc: See what you're missing? 02:38:20 Actually I've been getting more annoy{ed,ing} lately where #haskell is concerned. 02:38:37 The other day shapr told me I was being too negative. 02:40:53 shapr hasn't broken long ago? 02:40:57 shachaf is becoming kmc? 02:41:51 Maybe there should be that a instance can be designated "evil" which indicates that it is not completely mathematically correct, and that derived instances from evil instances also are called evil; for example, instances such as (Num Float) and so on have this designation. In case of optimization of mathematical laws (if any), they can be omitted. 02:42:22 So due to this it would apply also to (Monoid (Sum Double)) and so on since rounding errors can cause the result to be wrong. 02:48:54 Do you know of chess variant involving Scrabble tiles as the pieces? (There is the number in the corner, which can be used to tell which direction it is facing, if you like.) 02:54:44 "how is it that you are alive when everyone else on the planet was killed?" "I was protected by this" *points at her necklace* *camera zooms in to display necklace + cleavage* ... *camera stays on cleavage* ... *camera still on cleavage* 02:55:18 scifi.jpg 02:55:41 *camera won't move because now the camera men is killed too 02:55:50 haha 02:56:39 seriously the necklace thing is just there for fanservice 02:58:45 you can't expect the lead female opposing character to die in the first scene just because of jewelry 03:02:18 http://i.imgur.com/97PdF.jpg 03:02:22 (found on Reddit) 03:10:09 :t to 03:10:10 Gettable f => (s -> a) -> (a -> f a) -> s -> f s 03:11:47 -!- TheSmooze has changed nick to WindWhistler. 03:13:22 -!- WindWhistler has changed nick to Gregor. 03:16:19 :t over mapped 03:16:34 >_> 03:17:07 foo :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]; foo f xs = over mapped f xs is even compiled into foo = map! 03:18:14 > "hm..." 03:18:23 mueval: ExitFailure 1 03:18:23 mueval: Prelude.undefined 03:18:25 thread killed 03:18:34 :( 03:18:38 :t over mapped 03:18:40 oerjan: I messed things up a little bit in the other channel. 03:18:46 19:11 @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo 03:18:47 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 03:18:52 19:13 "whoops" 03:19:16 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 03:19:29 oerjan: Isn't it great, though! 03:19:37 yay! 03:19:49 oerjan: There are a lot of unsafeCoerces in lens to make it happen. 03:21:59 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 03:25:21 :t from 03:25:46 *chirp* 03:25:53 from 03:25:53 :: forall r. 03:25:53 Isomorphic r => 03:25:53 Isomorphism (B r) (A r) (T r) (S r) -> r 03:26:01 bats 03:26:29 wtf 03:26:45 thread killed 03:26:54 oerjan: We could sure use a nicer Iso. :-( 03:27:11 It is becoming obvious that I don't understand delimited continuations as well as I thought 03:27:33 he said, before his brain exploded. 03:27:47 shachaf: quote that and not the other one? 03:27:53 the anon one 03:27:57 of COURSE, if I just shift into four day cubic time then *boom* 03:27:58 elliott: ? 03:28:14 elliott: Oh, I just gave the answer to oerjan's question. 03:28:20 anon 03:28:20 :: forall r. 03:28:20 (Isomorphic r, S r ~ Maybe (A r), T r ~ Maybe (A r), B r ~ A r) => 03:28:20 A r -> (A r -> Bool) -> r 03:28:51 (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) 03:28:55 @Arr 03:28:57 @Arrr 03:29:22 Maybe you meant: arr yarr 03:29:22 Aye Aye Cap'n 03:29:34 what are S, T, A, B 03:29:40 :t (^.) 03:29:48 s -> Getting a s t a b -> a 03:29:56 monqy: its what you get 03:30:09 no thats s t a b 03:30:15 a s t a b 03:30:20 monqy: aren't you ready to get a s t a b..... 03:30:24 this is S T A B............................... 03:30:29 theyre type families 03:30:29 S = s 03:30:39 monqy: haskell = casein sensitive 03:31:10 shachaf: how cheesy 03:31:30 OK, fine. 03:31:33 That's a lie. :-( 03:32:32 in fact haskell pays no attention to cheese at all 03:32:57 Depends on the cheese. 03:33:21 oerjan: You know the thing that's called "bulgarian cheese" in Hebrew? 03:33:28 ...no. 03:33:36 elliott: why would people name their type families S T A B 03:34:00 monqy: elliott just got startled 03:34:02 monqy: it's a very dysfunctional family 03:34:11 monqy: some people know no taste. sooner or later they'll be getting a s t a b 03:34:23 shachaf: do you know ? 03:34:30 monqy: know what 03:34:35 why its S T A B 03:34:54 oh 03:35:00 S is a reference to s 03:35:03 T is a reference to t 03:35:07 A is a reference to a 03:35:11 B is a reference to c 03:35:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:30 help :( 03:35:54 obvyusly 03:35:56 monqy: class Isomorphic r where iso :: (S r -> A r) -> (B r -> T r) -> r; type S; type T; type A; type B 03:36:07 "um....." 03:36:13 monqy: class Isomorphic r where iso :: (S r -> A r) -> (B r -> T r) -> r; type S r; type T r; type A r; type B r 03:36:37 type family CoalgebraicA (x :: *) :: * 03:36:37 type family CoalgebraicB (x :: *) :: * 03:36:38 type family CoalgebraicF (x :: *) :: * -> * 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicA (a -> f_b) = a 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicB (a -> f b) = b 03:36:44 type instance CoalgebraicF (a -> f b) = f 03:36:52 instance (Functor f, x ~ (a -> f b), y ~ (s -> f t)) => Isomorphic (x -> y) where type S (x -> y) = CoalgebraicA y type T (x -> y) = CoalgebraicB y type A (x -> y) = CoalgebraicA x type B (x -> y) = CoalgebraicB x iso sa bt afb s = bt <$> afb (sa s) 03:37:08 glad we got that cleared up. 03:37:09 i think shachaf is going critical. RUN! 03:37:34 oerjan: "don't worry it's constructive criticism" 03:37:45 `quote critcism 03:37:49 No output. 03:37:50 `quote criticism 03:37:54 175) Thanks to nooga for constructive criticism, his ideas and being a constant annoyance. --http://theendisnear.no-ip.info/ \ 720) elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. 03:38:00 imo 720 03:38:44 international mathematics olympiad 720 03:39:03 *al 03:39:17 olympial 03:39:33 Do you like this? http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSalienandpredat 03:39:42 It's a very good URL. 03:39:49 Do you like my other symmetric variants too? 03:39:51 It has almost all the components. 03:40:02 Variants? 03:40:12 microsoft aliens sound scary 03:40:13 shachaf: I don't mean the URL; I mean the game written by the rules described on that HTML page. 03:40:21 What page? 03:40:22 Oh! 03:40:28 You want me to send an HTTP GET request. 03:40:31 I get it now. 03:40:33 oerjan: I think "MS" stands for "member submission". 03:40:37 shachaf: Yes. 03:40:50 oh it was submitted by alien members, ok 03:42:04 monqy: you should take the bus to san francisco 03:42:06 $1! 03:42:09 Other games I made which is symmetric variant of asymmetric game, is: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MStworingchess http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSsymmetricsnark http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSsymmetricmonst 03:42:26 Microsoft symmetric snark? 03:42:49 shachaf: it's what happens when their tech support goes _really_ wrong 03:44:26 zzo38: btw asymmetric ≻ symmetric 03:48:18 ok i got GTA San Andreas to run in Wine 03:48:54 I have also, in comments on other pages, proposed symmetric variant of Angels and Devils. 03:49:16 it works pretty well except that the world is filled with huge flickering multicolored polygons, and every object casts a trail of flame against the sky 03:49:26 so i'm just going to play as if my character is tripping on acid 03:50:14 kmc: Did you know conal lives in San Andreas? 03:50:32 maybe 03:50:33 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:51:00 kmc: Isn't that how you play "real life" too? 03:52:42 not really 04:01:31 kmc isn't real. 04:02:00 kmc: should I learn Agda 04:02:40 yeah 04:02:57 There are different definitions of "astrological age" which is not agreed on. As far as I know two is possible: [1] The constellation of the vernal equinox point. [2] The negative of ayanamsha. In the second case, you have to know what the reference date is! 04:03:06 elliott: wait, you haven't already? 04:03:08 I thought Agda was just Haskell with fancy types and ":" instead of "::". 04:03:31 oerjan: well I "know" it 04:03:41 oerjan: i can't read their freaky unicode proofs 04:03:53 (have you seen them) 04:04:22 i ... am not sure. 04:04:42 Agda is also require Unicode. 04:04:48 I don't like that. 04:04:57 actually agda does not require unicode at all 04:05:17 The worse part is that you have to use Emacs. :-( 04:05:24 (It's actually not that bad.) 04:06:53 Haskell does not require Unicode, but it does supports it. Some libraries do have names only using non-ASCII, and GHC has no way to enter the name using Punycode or something like that! 04:07:11 agda does not require unicode 04:07:21 shachaf: do you know of any agda-mode docs 04:07:33 elliott: Yes. 04:07:39 C-h C-something 04:07:50 that's not good docs 04:07:57 :( 04:08:13 They're not terrible either. 04:08:13 try C-h m to get the mode's online documentation. 04:08:23 "online documentation" 04:08:29 Bike: It's useless. 04:08:33 Bike: Also, "online documentation", really. 04:08:43 shrug. 04:08:51 elliott: Do you use emacs for anything else? 04:08:55 yes 04:08:56 sometime 04:08:56 s 04:09:28 You just have to know Emacs. 04:09:47 elliott: btw colenses are pretty cool right?? 04:09:56 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:09:57 I'm kind of annoyed at how ugly Isomorphic etc. are. 04:09:59 shachaf: yo is there something like http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~nad/listings/lib/Category.Functor.html in the stdlib but that encodes the laws 04:10:02 or do i gotta write this shit mysel 04:10:03 f 04:10:04 `welcome epicmonkey 04:10:07 epicmonkey: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:10:09 http://blog.opensourcenerd.com/i-can-haz-virus this person seems to have some serious misunderstandings about what wine does and doesn't provide 04:10:39 They should add a pragma in GHC to allow you to write the names in ASCII, by specifying the quoted string of the Unicode name, and the unquoted name in ASCII; the first letter/symbol must have the same case. It also allow to specify alternative names for constructors, even if it is already ASCII. 04:10:45 also lol @ the many commenters who think the difference between user account and root on a linux desktop is super important 04:11:19 elliott: https://github.com/copumpkin/categories/blob/master/Categories/Functor/Core.agda 04:11:44 shachaf: I... don't want to use that. 04:11:52 that is a really pervasive bit of cargo cult security 04:11:54 elliott: Good thinking. 04:12:02 it took me many years to realize how wrong it is 04:12:13 how do i type the fancy l 04:12:14 for levels 04:12:46 "\ell" 04:13:05 i forget how emacs/agda-mode does its thing 04:14:44 ℓ? 04:14:50 What does that mean? 04:15:42 yeah that one 04:15:45 oh \ell works 04:15:54 shachaf: does cabal install agda get me the stdlib 04:15:57 or do i have to do my own stuff 04:16:13 elliott: I think it works? 04:16:17 elliott: "try it out" 04:16:27 elliott: Also you didn't answer my question. 04:17:14 what 04:17:18 what 04:18:31 Is there any 3D modeling that you can write x^2+y^2+z^2=25 and it will work? 04:19:28 what's the composition law for functors called 04:20:56 I don't know if it is called anything other than a composition law for functors. 04:21:46 shachaf: It doesn't find the stdlib. 04:23:21 elliott: Try apt-get install agda 04:23:30 apt-get install agda-stdlib 04:24:02 apt-get command not found 04:24:06 -- my computer dot com 04:24:12 The "wgpluck" command in Csound seem to be good quality of plucked string sounds. 04:39:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:41:00 Do you have reverb files for Stonehenge? 04:52:46 Are there samples of wgpluck somewhere? 04:54:09 ion: I don't know of any, but if you have Csound you can use the examples in http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/wgpluck.html 04:54:22 You can use it with real-time or you can send output to a sound file if you want that. 04:55:30 I also find using "wguide1" with PhISEM opcodes makes a nice sound too (although not a plucked string sound) 04:59:13 alright 05:01:23 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:01:35 ion: Do you need samples of Csound? 05:01:58 I already installed it and listened to them. 05:05:54 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:12:47 -!- PieBotN has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:22:46 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 05:22:56 -!- elliott has joined. 05:23:40 -!- elliott_ has joined. 05:26:24 score 05:26:26 ------- 05:26:29 elliott 05:27:50 -!- jfischoff has joined. 05:51:59 -!- elliott_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:20 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:52:46 -!- elliott_ has joined. 05:55:17 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:56:03 -!- elliott_ has quit (Client Quit). 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 05:58:37 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:07:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:10:29 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:12:51 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 06:21:08 http://whyismarko.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/food-nativity.jpg 06:22:10 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 06:22:33 -!- kallisti has joined. 06:23:51 kmc: More like #messoteric, right? 06:24:12 elliott: what was monqy doing in #haskell 06:24:24 @ask monqy elliott: what was monqy doing in #haskell 06:24:24 Consider it noted. 06:24:47 :'( 06:24:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:18 -!- ashet4 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:30:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:31:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:31:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:34:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:38:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | /topic: the new way to chat | How arre you? | *-r. 06:51:55 -!- ashet4 has joined. 07:02:47 -!- evincar has joined. 07:04:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:06:02 -!- elliott has set topic: MEGA EXTRA SUPER FOREVER | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:06:14 -!- elliott has set topic: qqqqq | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:15:12 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 07:22:51 I disagree with your chosen amount of Qs. 07:23:23 -!- shachaf has set topic: @ask monqy http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:23:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:24:47 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:27:30 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:28:24 I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:28:39 I'm just not getting usd to this. 07:29:13 Getting used to being a train may be difficult, but with the right attitude you can! 07:29:43 At least it gives me consolation that the connection is terribly laggy. 07:29:46 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 07:29:47 getting USD for being a train may be even more difficult 07:30:32 olsner: I don't know, you could rent yourself out to someone who needs a train for $$$ars. 07:30:56 as I understand it, the money doesn't go to the train but usually to the owner of the train 07:31:25 So... that would conventionally be my wife, I guess? 07:32:05 `addquote I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:32:16 861) I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 07:32:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trains_owned_by_wifes 07:32:35 "wives", olsner 07:33:12 indeed 07:33:13 Oh, the train is also going to Turku, city of oklopol. I think. 07:33:28 are you going to meet oklopol 07:34:26 I hope not, I'm not sure I'm prepared for that. 07:34:39 how can you pass up the opportunity 07:34:43 I will be around what I think is his university, though. 07:34:48 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:37:50 Oh no, this is stupid. I have this bluetooth headset that can be used as a regular headset with a cable, but when the battery is completely out (like now) it won't switch to the regular-headset mode. 07:38:18 I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:38:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:38:57 oklofok: ping 07:38:58 oklofok: ping ping ping 07:39:01 oklofok: emergency 07:39:04 oklofok: you have to meet fizzie 07:39:10 oklofok: travel to nearest train station 07:39:23 oh right i wanted to addquote that 07:39:26 Look for a fizzie-shaped train? 07:39:31 `addquote I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:39:34 862) I was hoping I could be like other people and listen to signals while in a public transport vehicle. 07:40:00 -!- Bike has joined. 07:50:32 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 07:50:37 "SCP-411 speaks an as-yet-unknown dialect of English that has significant grammatical and vocabulary deviations from Modern English. Individuals who are to be given training in this language will benefit from a background in Spanish, Mandarin and/or Cantonese, ██████ and Haskell." 07:50:57 that entry made me chuckle 07:51:13 -!- monqy has joined. 07:51:41 Oh, I wasn't able to do the thing where I say monqy elliott 07:51:58 i forgive you 07:53:12 damn, I should have beat you :P 07:54:08 `quote 07:54:11 158) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. 07:58:18 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:59:09 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 08:01:59 fizzie: mosh 08:06:25 ion: Bish bosh. 08:11:17 `quote 08:11:28 488) On further reflection, I think I did manage to miss winter and spring altogether. This does explain the goblin siege I had in autumn. 08:12:54 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 08:18:13 ion: I think you are insufficiently agile. 08:20:57 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 08:22:24 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 08:24:14 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:25:31 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:34:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:05:09 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:12:51 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 09:15:23 -!- elliott has joined. 09:20:20 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 09:46:26 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 09:46:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:53:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:02:35 -!- Sgeo|MOG11111 has joined. 10:02:43 elliott: Phantom_Hoover monqy 10:02:47 Fiora: 10:02:53 mog11111 10:03:24 MOG11111, excuse you 10:04:31 im sorry 10:05:12 Well, I didn't think a nick of Sgeo|MOG!!!!! would work 10:05:18 oh no it's monqy 10:05:20 hi monqy 10:05:31 hi shachaf 10:05:35 monqy: have you ever read the ghc inliner 10:05:53 monqy: do you know what main:Foo.Foo{v reR} means! 10:06:40 Oh, I finally got my verbose output! 10:07:02 Considering inlining: main:Foo.Foo{v reR} [gid[DataConWrapper]] arg infos [] uf arity 0 interesting continuation ArgCtxt False some_benefit False is exp: True is work-free: True guidance ALWAYS_IF(unsat_ok=True,boring_ok=True) ANSWER = YES 10:07:54 ok 10:09:05 monqy: yes or no 10:09:21 if you were ghc you would say ANSWER = YES 10:09:25 or ANSWER = NO 10:09:58 i dddont know 10:17:11 Also if you’re prolog. 10:26:01 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 10:35:22 -!- oklopol has changed nick to xD. 10:35:49 everything is so funny i decided this will save my time 10:35:52 -!- xD has changed nick to Guest7699. 10:35:59 krhm 10:36:06 what :D 10:36:08 -!- Guest7699 has changed nick to oklopol. 10:36:10 Guest7699: fizzie is coming to yr town 10:36:13 go meet him 10:36:30 [12:35:10] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify . 10:36:31 - 10:36:31 [12:35:10] -NickServ- You have 30 seconds to identify to your nickname before it is changed. 10:36:31 - 10:36:31 [12:35:39] -NickServ- You failed to identify in time for the nickname Xd 10:36:32 oh. 10:37:05 he is? 10:37:17 -!- atriq has joined. 10:37:37 yes 10:37:40 he may even be there right now 10:37:41 Yes indeed 10:38:03 oklopol: apparently he's going to your university-abouts 10:38:03 fizzie: where should we meet? 10:38:08 yeah i read 10:39:39 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 10:39:58 I'm kind of bored of being atriq 10:40:00 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 10:40:10 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:45:28 Aaargh 10:50:40 `whoami 10:50:44 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 10:50:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:50:47 `id -a 10:50:51 uid=5000 gid=873786 10:50:54 `id -a 10:51:00 uid=5000 gid=787581 10:51:02 Pft. Why can't we be root? 10:51:43 `id -G 10:51:46 736514 10:52:03 `id -Z 10:52:06 id: --context (-Z) works only on an SELinux-enabled kernel 11:03:27 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:06:53 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 11:10:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:12:11 -!- atriq has joined. 11:15:29 How is the topic link doing that 11:15:41 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 11:16:28 Doing what 11:16:48 If I click it and say open in browser, it goes to http://xn--cdu-sed.org/logs/_esoteric/ 11:17:18 The 'o' is cyrillic 11:17:25 U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O 11:17:32 Wow, crazy 11:18:09 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://cоdu.org/lоgs/_еsоtеric/. 11:18:26 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://соdu.оrg/lоgs/_еsоtеric/. 11:20:46 -!- elliott has set topic: http codu logs esoteric. 11:21:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:24:54 xanadu-sed.org 11:31:44 -!- shachaf has set topic: . 11:34:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:06:39 ais523: any idea what's up with http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=OISC&curid=1012&diff=34930&oldid=33316? 12:07:08 not sure the link actually is relevant -- I can't tell what it's on about and certainly it is in the wrong section -- but the commentless removal is a bit odd 12:08:26 The link talks about OISCs 12:09:55 -!- monqy has joined. 12:15:43 What is this about meeting people. :/ 12:16:04 I am at the ICT building, I think I'll be mostly in hiding. 12:17:06 oklopol: fizzie is at the ICT building 12:17:08 go meet him 12:17:43 "Seppo Pulkkinen, Department of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Turku" is this guy from your guys? 12:17:53 He's talking about something. 12:18:39 I'll be here in this thing until 18 and my train away leaves Kupittaa at 19, so there. 12:19:15 oklopol: THERE'S NOT MUCH TIME 12:20:34 hey elliott did you do that thing 12:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: I AM BUSY ORGANISING A MEETING OF FINNS 12:22:37 you can run worldgen in the background while doing that! 12:23:25 Without fully devoting my attention to it???? 12:23:27 That would be sloppy 12:24:23 it's worldgen man, you just watch 3 numbers increment at an ever-slower rate 12:24:55 This is why you are hopeless Phantom_Hoover 12:33:17 -!- ashet4 has left. 12:38:26 What is sleep? 12:39:04 what is MOG11111 12:39:38 sleep is that time of the day when people don't pay attention as I break into their kitchens looking steal'em cookies 12:40:21 yes 12:42:08 sleep is what happens when you have too much blood in your caffeine circulation 12:42:31 that's kinda gross nortti 12:42:46 in what way? 12:43:07 blood in my caffeine??gross 12:49:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:52:35 Just caused some nostalgia 12:52:44 hi 12:54:34 how? 12:55:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:56:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:14 Reminded a couple of people of something they were planning to make years ago 12:58:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:58:13 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:07:50 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:14:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:20:01 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 13:20:21 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 13:31:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:31:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:43:21 fizzie: seppo works in the same tiny building as me 13:43:26 i've never talked to him 13:43:45 waaaait 13:43:48 different seppo :D 13:44:24 oh okay 13:44:26 same seppo 13:47:13 oklopol: go go go 13:47:22 you have to get to the ICT building!!! 13:47:23 -!- nooga has joined. 13:47:42 blorgh 13:47:48 maybe next time 13:48:51 where's the topic? 13:49:00 oklopol: wtf 13:49:08 oklopol: you are depriving fizzie of a once-in-a-lifetime experience to meet oklopol!! 13:49:16 and also: the first #esoteric meeting ever 13:49:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:50:23 This Seppo is talking about "Optimization Algorithms for Large-Scale and Robust Dimensionality Reduction" soon. 13:50:54 I think it's going to involve numbers. 13:51:32 oklopol: RUN 13:51:50 RUN AWAY 13:52:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:00:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:01:51 ais523: you have to convince oklopol to travel a short distance to see fizzie, right now 14:04:15 And fizzie to not run away and hide from the impending oklopol. 14:05:47 oklopol: in fact 14:05:57 oklopol: i'll pay you 30 pounds gbp to go do it 14:07:15 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:07:17 :D 14:07:48 sorry i have works to do :( 14:15:21 elliott seems to be passionate about this 14:16:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:17:30 arcatan: it is of great theological importance 14:19:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:31:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:32:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:32:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:35:15 -!- boily has joined. 14:44:14 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:46:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:49:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:53:07 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:55:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:56:35 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:00:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:10:04 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:10:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Client Quit). 15:10:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:16:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:19:16 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:21:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:23:02 -!- augur has joined. 15:35:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:39:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:42:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:46:40 It's quiet here 15:48:57 gu 15:48:59 hi 15:50:31 hi 15:50:36 hi 15:50:44 remember oracle versus google? 15:51:03 I, umm, may have paraphrased the spec for rangeCheck and set it as an exercise for a bunch of first years 15:52:34 around half of them got it exactly on spec, which is less than I expected 15:58:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:02:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:06:44 -!- oklofok has joined. 16:20:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:26:57 so i didn't meet FireFly 16:26:58 erm 16:27:01 fizzie: 16:27:03 erm 16:27:06 fizzie 16:27:16 but i met seppo on his way back from the thingie 16:28:20 Oh seppo. And the thingie. Ha ha ha, I'm participating. 16:35:04 what thingie? 16:42:56 suggested type for an esolang: int™ 16:50:47 -!- Arc_Koen_ has joined. 16:50:56 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (*.net *.split). 16:50:57 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 16:50:59 -!- iamcal has quit (*.net *.split). 16:51:01 -!- Arc_Koen_ has changed nick to Arc_Koen. 16:53:44 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 16:55:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:56:24 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 16:57:11 -!- boily has joined. 16:57:26 -!- iamcal has joined. 16:58:55 oklofok: It's all right, I kind of had to go eat with the Hatutus folks. 16:59:15 what's hatututs 16:59:17 hatutus 16:59:18 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:59:18 Though now my 19:06 train has been delayed to 19:24. 16:59:30 Pattern recognition research society. 16:59:43 Hahmontunnistustutkimuksen seura. 17:00:04 It was our twice-a-year meeting/seminar that I was here for. 17:01:40 -!- truckngear06 has joined. 17:01:59 whats up 17:02:16 hmm 17:02:19 do I recognise you? 17:02:26 no sir 17:02:32 `welcome truckngear06 17:02:36 truckngear06: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:02:36 ty 17:02:38 can u see my ip ? 17:02:42 wow, HackEgo was fast that time 17:02:54 and yes, 24.231.195.104, or possibly 104.195.231.24 17:03:02 just wondering 17:03:43 connecting anywhere on the internet sends your IP to the site you connect to 17:04:26 yup 17:05:14 who plays black ops 2 17:05:19 xbox 360 17:06:30 fizzie: do you know seppo? 17:07:02 oklofok: No, I just listened to his talk. 17:07:14 cya gonna play some black ops 17:07:15 was it awesome 17:07:44 ais523_: Hey, your computer may be broadcasting an IP address. 17:09:16 -!- truckngear06 has left. 17:10:58 oklofok: I... suppose? It was about doing this one thing faster than other people do that thing. He claimed he's the only one from "his people" dabbling with anything pattern-recognition related. 17:11:18 what's that thing 17:11:18 is he the last of his people 17:11:47 are his people fools with no vision of the future 17:12:32 oklofok: It was the optimization problem related to this maximum-variance based dimensionality reduction method that works well if there's an underlying low-dimensional description for the points of the high-dimensional dataset. 17:13:07 Also there was a thing about doing it well even if the data is a bit noisy and not strictly on the low-dimensional thing. 17:13:15 i see 17:13:49 Based on projecting it onto a thing formed by ridges of the density function of the data set. 17:14:14 hmm, that channel join was weird 17:14:28 we get people like that in #nethack sometimes, mislead by the name 17:14:30 but #esoteric? 17:14:56 Oh no, battery low. 17:15:06 There was electricity just a moment ago. 17:15:23 I suspect this phone is "acting up" occasionally. 17:15:44 Oh well, I'll just wait until the train gets here. -> 17:15:53 Oh, now it's 19:34. 17:17:45 -!- ais523_ has quit. 17:26:16 -!- carado has joined. 17:29:12 yeah #hackage got some of those too :) 17:31:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:31:44 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:31:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:31:44 -!- ais523_ has joined. 17:31:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:31:56 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 17:32:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:34:38 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 17:44:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:44:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:44:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:45:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:47:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:53:35 Bleh. Left 19:49, 43 minutes late. Is this the famed Finnish punctuality? (Okay, there is no such thing.) 17:53:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:54:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:59:54 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 18:04:21 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 18:08:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:11:27 fizzie: So if you have a set of 4D points 18:11:51 But the fourth coordinate is just random quantised noise between -0.5 and 0.5 18:11:56 Is it going to work well? 18:12:03 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 18:15:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 18:15:42 FreeFull: Don't ask me, ask Seppo. Maybe it will. That kind of thing *is* one of the common types of toy data; many methods do suppress that sort of thing pretty well. 18:21:56 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:25:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:30:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:30:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:30:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:33:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:39:23 fizzie: did you meet oklofok? 18:40:38 olsner: I did not. 18:40:58 Such a loss for the advancement of the human race &c. 18:41:48 :'( 18:42:02 a day of mourning for all of oklokind 18:45:06 "This is not a national day of mourning in Helsinki, Finland's capital -- these are Finns in their natural state: brooding, private, grimly in touch with no-one but themselves." 18:45:25 :D 18:45:44 tht sound about right 18:46:43 So started a "60 minutes" (US TV show) segment about tango's popularity in Finland. 18:46:53 It was apparently considered quite rude. 18:47:06 strange 18:47:19 The visuals were random clips from Helsinki streets. 18:47:43 Admittedly the adjectives described them quite well. 18:49:23 tango is rude? 18:49:39 No the show was rude. 18:49:47 Though I'm not sure if early morning commuters (especially in bad weather) tend to look all that happy anywhere. 18:49:55 Or at least manywhere. 18:50:03 manywhere, nice word 18:50:32 It's like "anywhere" except not meaning quite all the places, just many of them. 18:51:49 not all finns like the antisocial stereotype? 18:51:52 -!- Bike has joined. 18:52:06 yes 18:52:11 don't we have like the best one there is 18:52:17 hmm, I think 'anywhere' sometimes means something more like 'somewhere' ... feels a bit like universal/existential quantification 18:52:47 maybe there should also be a 'fewwhere' 18:53:35 oklofok: As I understood it, the show was just considered taking the thing too far. But I'unno. 18:54:00 "THigh quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2e33f00e-a36e-11e1-ab98-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2E15YAoQo 18:54:06 What. 18:54:17 thigh quality! 18:54:22 You stupid piece of stupidest stupidity. 18:54:38 I hadn't highlighted the initial "T" so I typed it myself. 18:54:48 i don't get it, it's not even racist because most finns are white 18:56:20 also do i need to register 18:56:31 Well, feel free to peruse the link, if you want to visit a page which programmatically ejaculates stupidity all over a copy-paste. 18:57:14 I didn't need to. 18:57:29 Apparently there is a "8 free articles per month" thing. 18:57:48 So be careful about wasting one of your valuable free articles for *that*. 18:58:16 "The report goes on to say that the prescriptive tango dance sessions, with their set times when men can ask women to dance or the other way around, are perfect for shy Finns and that the lessons and dances give them a “licence to touch” one another." 18:58:28 There you go, that's what I wanted to paste. 18:58:53 I pasted it ALL OVER. All over the Internet. It's probably in dozens of places now. 18:59:05 How do you like that, FT? 19:00:29 This train, it is exactly an hour late. 19:01:24 The next TurkufHelsinki train was supposed to leave an hour after this one, I wonder if it's right behind there. 19:01:34 TurkufHelsinki. Yes. 19:03:11 yes. 19:03:47 also 8 whole articles? that's huge 19:13:21 -!- soundnfury has joined. 19:14:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:15:24 Hello 19:15:28 hi 19:15:38 No more topic :( 19:15:51 -!- nortti has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :(. 19:15:59 Maybe it's just invisible. 19:16:06 Oh, now it's not. 19:16:17 Yay! I'm in the topic. 19:16:27 but there is no link to the logs now! 19:17:37 -!- Gregor has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :( | No more logs :(. 19:18:14 -!- nortti has set topic: < AnotherTest> No more topic :( | No more logs :( | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:18:27 -!- monqy has joined. 19:18:35 -!- olsner has set topic: No more :(. 19:18:41 -!- Gregor has set topic: Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail. 19:19:04 :D 19:20:30 gobble gobble 19:20:33 how did you get so legit url? 19:20:40 shadyurl.com 19:20:57 ah 19:23:16 ... two people in the cubes next to me are arguing about using oil vs butter in brownies X_X 19:24:07 if brownies is similar to what I think it is similar to, oil doesn't work 19:25:37 What about oil v. butten in ponies? 19:25:41 Butten. 19:25:46 Butten butten. 19:25:53 fizzie: You sick, sick fuck. 19:26:01 derfinertly butten 19:26:13 CLICK THE PONY BUTTON 19:55:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:55:47 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:56:48 -!- nys has joined. 20:02:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:04:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:13:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:13:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:13:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:13:52 -!- jfischoff has joined. 20:16:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:20:42 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 20:31:06 -!- david_werecat has joined. 20:31:41 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 20:34:06 -!- jfischoff has joined. 20:38:09 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:46:20 -!- david_werecat has quit (Quit: Quitting...). 20:54:07 sleep is that time of the day when people don't pay attention as I break into their kitchens looking steal'em cookies <-- i suggest not trying that with me. 20:55:57 oklopol: you are depriving fizzie of a once-in-a-lifetime experience to meet oklopol!! <-- has anyone on this channel ever successfully met oklopol? 20:56:37 I think oklofok has. 20:56:54 fellow clones don't count, fizzie 20:57:33 and also: the first #esoteric meeting ever <-- oh. 20:57:40 maybe we should all go visit oklopol at the same time some time 20:57:51 * c00kiemon5ter om nom ? :( 20:58:01 ... and get murdered by his 15 clones 20:58:52 c00kiemon5ter: (1) i don't sleep at sane times (2) i have no cookies afaik. (although there is milk chocolate.) 20:59:09 I've technically met some #esoteric people; mooz, ineiros, and sort of unidirectionally Deewiant in that he's seen me several times but I still don't know what he looks like. 20:59:14 (1)(*) except by accident 20:59:47 if you count "technically", maybe you'd have to count IRC and that's boring 21:01:00 The first two are "technically" in the "#esoteric people" aspect (mooz hasn't been here in a long time, ineiros is mute) while the last is "technically" in the "meet" aspect. 21:01:56 i must have met [[User:Rune]] from the wiki at some time, although this was surely before #esoteric existed. 21:02:01 fungot: Have you met any of the people here? 21:02:01 fizzie: later tell sjamaan also, the convention of returning the offset. i normally do that, though 21:02:14 i've met some of the guys here before joining this channel. hmm. 21:02:22 I think shachaf and kmc have met. 21:02:27 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:02:43 At least it's the sort of "vibe" I've gotten from there. 21:02:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 21:02:53 Wink, wink. 21:03:44 oh, shachaf and kmc have a vibe? good for them! 21:03:46 "unidirectionally meeting people" is a great term 21:04:28 I suppose it doesn't really count as a "#esoteric meet" unless the meeting happens first on-channel and only later in real life, possibly even with a causal relationship to the on-channel meeting. 21:05:06 fizzie: my chances are truly slim, then. 21:05:24 Since there's a connotation of the channel having brought the people involved together. 21:06:53 well what if they first met irl but it didn't work out and then they met again on the channel and realized how much they shared 21:07:23 very romantic! 21:07:52 I think I've met arcatan. 21:08:30 yeah, we've met 21:08:53 I've also met Lumpio- and nortti, and unidirectionally met at least atehwa 21:09:03 fizzie: Are you sure you're not thinking of HackEgo? 21:09:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:09:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:09:30 8) 21:09:53 arcatan: it is of great theological importance <-- it would provide nearly incontrovertible proof that the people on #esoteric are not just figments of imagination! 21:10:12 Is arcatan some kind of a Finn too? I mean, that's a very suspicious list. 21:10:29 Hm, I've met at least four people in this channel. 21:10:31 the programming kind 21:10:33 fizzie: /whois corroborates that 21:10:47 Not including myself and lambdabot. 21:10:47 `? finland 21:10:59 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 21:12:00 /whois corun show up a not-very-finnish looking whowas 21:12:03 *s 21:12:33 you don't have to be finnish to drive the bus 21:12:35 oerjan: Well, no one said that sentence has anything to do with the preceding two. Corun drives the bus. 21:12:47 Which bus 21:13:01 shachaf: AAAA 21:13:04 Lumpio-: the bus that Corun drives 21:13:06 The usual interpretation of that would be the Corun drives the bus of Finland (yes, *the* bus) 21:13:10 i was assuming the finnish bus. 21:13:13 why would you need multiple buses for a country with only two people 21:13:24 silly question......................... 21:13:33 especially when 9 of them are on IRC and don't need bussing around in the first place 21:15:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:15:46 monqy: to get from one end of the country to the other?? 21:15:57 monqy: use logic next time ok 21:17:12 oklofok: I... suppose? It was about doing this one thing faster than other people do that thing. He claimed he's the only one from "his people" dabbling with anything pattern-recognition related. 21:17:30 i get this vibe fizzie is becoming more similar to fungot, in that dog/owner sense 21:17:31 oerjan: richard stallman, fnord, desolation, and fnord is on the eso forum to demonstrate. 21:17:33 pattern recognition 21:17:53 less fnords, i guess 21:17:57 *fewer 21:19:12 pattern recognition 21:19:21 that's tartan 21:19:46 that's plaid to see 21:20:02 I am not like fungot! The whole idea is ludicrous. That sword alone can't stop. 21:20:03 fizzie: ccnum.scm released. http://www.neilvandyke.org/ weblog/". tell me if astyle works on fnord 21:20:38 ...i cannot `addquote a conversation including me, can i? 21:20:43 *may not 21:21:08 Nothing's stopping you, but if you do, you'll be killed and fed to starving children. 21:21:15 ooh 21:21:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:21:21 So all said and done it's a good deed. 21:21:24 -!- boily has joined. 21:21:59 very tempting, then 21:22:25 -!- Gregor has set topic: Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 21:22:43 22:07 < oerjan> very romantic! 21:22:44 22:21 < oerjan> very tempting, then 21:22:46 yes shachaf and i have met irl 21:22:49 i see a pattern here 21:22:56 once at boston python and once at the stripe ctf meetup in sf 21:22:59 and maybe another time 21:23:07 we are more awkward in person 21:23:09 nooga: is it plaid? 21:23:16 very plaid! 21:23:35 hey, does anyone know about a programming language based on minimization? like the µ operator for µ-recursive functions 21:23:57 or 21:24:02 well plaid, oerjan 21:27:33 -!- Sgeo|MOG11111 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:30:21 hmm, I think 'anywhere' sometimes means something more like 'somewhere' ... feels a bit like universal/existential quantification <-- maybe, but recall that scandinavian languages don't have distinct words for english "some" and "any" 21:31:26 @where any 21:31:27 I know nothing about any. 21:31:31 @google trebla any all some 21:31:33 http://www.vex.net/~trebla/weblog/any-all-some.html 21:31:33 Title: Any, For All, Exists 21:39:32 -!- atriq has joined. 21:42:01 back to your old atriq 21:42:10 Different computer 21:42:15 Different settings 21:42:29 -!- atriq has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:42:31 If you order a klein bottle shipped via USPS/UPS/DHL/whatever, will the tracking page say "volume: 0"? 21:42:45 fizzie, if it's not in a box 21:42:45 Ngevd: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:42:46 if you order helium balloons does it have a negative weight 21:42:59 i don't think usps usually ships through the fourth dimension 21:43:18 -!- oerjan has changed nick to oerjan_. 21:43:21 boo 21:43:22 I don't know if they measure mass or weight. I mean, the do state it in grams. 21:43:22 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 21:43:28 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 21:44:28 (By way of context, according to the post office parcel tracking system, what they're delivering to me has a mass of 0.00 kg and a volume of 0 m^3, but I didn't order a massless klein bottle.) 21:44:51 ^rot13 Taneb 21:44:51 Gnaro 21:45:07 ^rot13 FireFly 21:45:07 SverSyl 21:45:12 ^rot14 Gnarly. 21:45:17 ^rot13 Gnarly. 21:45:18 Taneyl. 21:45:23 * shachaf 21:45:37 * ion 21:45:43 shachaf: i'm sorry, only dour puns allowed today 21:45:54 ^rot13 ion oerjan monqy 21:45:54 vba brewna zbadl 21:46:13 That sounds like an incantation. 21:46:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:30 Ia, ia, vba brewna zbadl! 21:46:51 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:49:49 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:52:28 -!- nooga has joined. 21:52:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:53:42 ^rot13 shub niggurat 21:53:42 fuho avttheng 21:53:57 ^rot13 shub niggurath 21:53:57 fuho avtthengu 21:54:05 ^rot13 fizzie fungot 21:54:06 svmmvr shatbg 21:54:18 ^rot13 olsner oklofok oklopol 21:54:19 byfare bxybsbx bxybcby 21:54:20 Summer shitbag? 21:56:30 fungot: Did you hear that? 21:56:30 fizzie: still had the older version) somewhere else. what unclear in that? :) 21:56:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:57:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:57:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:57:47 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:57:58 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 21:58:51 ^rot13 ehird 21:58:52 ruveq 21:59:52 -!- carado has joined. 22:00:13 byfare 22:05:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:14:21 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:15:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:19:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:24:04 ^rot13 shachaf 22:24:05 funpuns 22:24:17 oerjan: nånstans, varsomhelst, överallt? 22:24:29 not as systematic as X-where, but whatever 22:25:09 -!- augur has joined. 22:27:43 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:27:54 olsner: anywhere can also be translated as nånstans in some uses 22:30:14 that's what I was referring to 22:30:28 kmc: Would that Hotspot trick help for something like GHC's GC, where it does a comparison and conditional jump on every allocation? 22:30:37 some = nån, any = nån or vilkensomhelst, depending on meaning (modulo actual swedish spelling) 22:30:43 I suppose the overhead of a page fault is too high for how often it needs to GC. 22:30:48 shachaf: maybe 22:31:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:31:12 you might use it for cheap checkpoints in allocation-free loops 22:31:18 nooodl: ONLY DOUR PUNS, I SAID 22:31:18 but ezyang has a different clever solution 22:31:21 that i think is implemented 22:31:48 What's that solution? 22:31:51 what is dour 22:32:31 oerjan: säg ett datum, vilket som helst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QXL-o8DQM4) 22:32:41 nooodl: almost the opposite of fun 22:32:42 you compile your loops with whatever check, and then you copy that page of code and make another page which is exactly the same except that the checks are replaced by NOPs 22:33:00 olsner: um "datum" isn't a common norwegian word, please clarify 22:33:00 oerjan has a dour odour. 22:33:01 then when another thread wants to make your thread stop at a checkpoint, it masks the appropriate bit in the instruction pointer 22:33:47 oerjan: date 22:33:59 3 december *ducks* 22:34:05 i.e. calendar date, not the fruit or the activity 22:34:32 the fruit is spelt date? 22:34:41 I think so 22:34:48 yes 22:35:20 A date with a date. 22:35:50 (SO MANY MEANINGS!) 22:36:26 a date had a date with a date, but the date forgot the date 22:36:57 But the future refused to change. 22:48:37 so here's a language: 22:48:47 each program is a pair (n, p) 22:49:05 where n is a natural number 22:50:12 and p a program in befunge-93, except with unbounded playfield (instructions p and g have access to an infinite grid) 22:51:18 well numbers on the befunge stack are bounded so let's say that it's an infinity of bound * bound squares, and p and g can only affect cells in the square the ip currently is in, or something 22:51:36 so running the program (n, p) is similar to running p as befunge 22:51:55 except that every instruction goes along with an accumulator 22:52:14 and if ever one instruction's accumulator goes higher than n execution halts 22:52:32 prove tc (you have two hours) 22:53:49 may the nonzero subset of the field be unbounded? May it be aperiodic? 22:53:56 um is the accumulator tied to the spot in the playfield? 22:54:47 if aperiodic, it's quite trivial 22:55:11 i don't think you need that. finite initial setup should be sufficient. 22:55:49 not sure I understand your questions 22:56:01 idea is playfield is infinite and each cell has an accumulator 22:56:10 right, each cell. 22:56:23 but is the initial program infinite? 22:56:27 nope 22:56:37 but you get p and g 22:57:08 well i think you can do a turing machine that copies itself in some direction each step 22:57:14 that's the idea 22:57:17 what if n = 1 22:57:28 you need a big n, obviously 22:57:34 if n = 1 then creating a new instruction costs you an instruction 22:57:49 oh, n isn't provided 22:57:49 ok 22:58:05 yeah, this seems doable 22:58:44 also: is there some constant N such that the subset of pairs (N, p) is also turing-complete? 22:59:00 yes i think so 22:59:08 that would force you to write quining befunge programs :) 22:59:21 ...you have to do that anyhow 23:00:12 or perhaps a cellular automaton is more intuitive than a TM here 23:00:46 ("that" was the whole thing, not the bound on n 23:00:48 (a 1d one) 23:01:06 which "that"? 23:01:20 oh right 23:01:44 I'd just use i 23:02:15 well i would then represent each CA cell as a subsquare of the befunge program that takes care of copying itself to the next level and calculating the right CA value to put there 23:06:25 Can you write anything into an empty square, though? 23:06:39 isn't that what p does? 23:06:42 The p doing the writing would have to be in that square. 23:06:46 Not cell, square. 23:07:32 not _that_ big squares, smaller than the relative wrapping 23:07:37 "an infinity of bound * bound squares, and p -- can only affect cells in the square the ip currently is in" kind of square. 23:08:11 yes, but the squares to represent cells don't have to be anywhere near as large as bound * bound, if bound is something like 2^23 23:08:34 Yes, but wouldn't you eventually have to get out of the wrapping-square? 23:08:47 If the cells in it wear out and all. 23:08:47 oh. i was assuming the bound*bound squares were centered on the current ip 23:09:10 That's not what it sounds like, but I guess it could be. 23:09:12 so that they overlap. 23:09:23 otherwise there could be a problem yeah 23:10:14 i guess what Arc_Koen actually said doesn't imply overlapping 23:10:28 It *sounds* like there's a fixed grid of squares, but that might be just me. 23:10:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:11:25 i don't know befunge well enough to know whether there is an instruction that could get around that 23:12:00 -!- Bike has changed nick to Bike`afk. 23:12:19 you could save data on the stack instead of moving across the boundary directly, but you would still need some way to get a minimal program into a non-used square 23:12:52 to do the copying from the stack to a nearly empty square 23:14:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:14:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge-93 seems to have nothing other than p 23:14:21 I don't think 93 has anything that can write to playfield except p. 23:14:39 98 also has s which might work though would be quite awkward to use. 23:15:19 It writes a character to pos+delta, but I can't recall if it the skips that character or not. 23:15:41 Of course it'd wrap so maybe it's not a problem even if it skips it. 23:15:53 Arc_Koen: so i think we are going to need the p restricting squares to be overlapping for this to work 23:15:57 Moot point, of course, since it wasn't 98. 23:28:23 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:28:48 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:29:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:29:05 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:29:17 -!- Bike`afk has changed nick to Bike. 23:29:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:31:20 I have now my own concept, another way to group pokemons, where each pokemon also belongs to a "prefix group". A prefix group is identified by zero, one, or two letters. All official pokemons belong to the Nintendo prefix group, identified by no letters. There is a partial order on prefix groups, with Nintendo being initial. 23:32:02 Do you like this? 23:32:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:33:36 It is designed to be usable with battle simulators supporting custom pokemon species. 23:35:07 Why zero, one, or two? 23:35:19 because 3 would just be madness 23:35:38 > 26^2 + 26^2 23:35:39 1352 23:35:41 So that the ID could fit in a six character field. It could be extended to three letters if necessary. 23:35:49 > 26^2 + 26^1 + 26^0 23:35:50 703 23:36:18 703 is hardly better than 1. 23:36:35 Possibly even four or five if the number of species per those groups is very small. 23:36:58 "zzo" would make a good prefix group. 23:37:09 Where does your nick come from, anyway? 23:37:28 I don't actually know for sure. 23:40:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:42:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:43:20 What is the best way to represent the partial ordering in the computer? 23:44:32 A long English document? 23:45:23 I wanted to do something in a ASCII text file which is both readable by people and processable by computer. 23:45:44 And in a packed form that does not necessarily require every one. 23:46:04 As well as being easy to correct. 23:47:39 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:51 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 23:56:17 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:57:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 2012-12-04: 00:00:01 oerjan: oh, right. otherwise a square that was initially empty can never be written to from out, but if the ip enters a square that's empty it will exit without performing any writing... 00:02:48 zzo38: well partial orders over a finite set are basically trees 00:03:02 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:04:06 no they are not. 00:04:15 oh? 00:04:25 . 00:04:29 / \ 00:04:35 / \ 00:04:38 ohhh 00:04:39 right 00:04:40 .------. 00:04:42 ok ok 00:04:53 dags, then 00:05:11 darn miscounted 00:05:30 but that's almost like trees 00:05:33 since it's oriented 00:05:50 . 00:05:52 / \ 00:05:53 / \ 00:06:04 after all we do talk about "genealogy trees" even though they're not trees either 00:06:23 They're not? 00:06:51 well I can be the descendant of two people which are cousins 00:06:55 * oerjan gently teaches Bike about incest 00:07:24 * Arc_Koen didn't even realized there was something wrong with that 00:07:25 * oerjan notes he may have been unusually creepy today 00:07:33 they're directed acyclic graphs, right...? 00:07:47 Fiora: barring time travel hth 00:07:53 * Gregor gently teaches oerjan that we're ALL cousins. 00:08:04 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 00:08:13 Gregor: I thought we were all brothers and sisters. 00:08:20 kinky 00:08:26 eew 00:08:30 true... the homestuck family geneology consists entirely of cycles 00:08:40 Did you read that one story by Heinlein? 00:08:43 oh, i was confusing dags with possibly cyclic graphs, durr. 00:08:46 The only way you can be the child of two people who are not cousins (and it's just a matter of terminology) is if they're siblings, uncles/aunts/nieces/nephews, or direct linear descendents/ancestors. 00:08:50 i read of it, that's just as good 00:09:07 shachaf: he wrote a few about time travel fuckery? you probably mean all you zombies though 00:09:13 Yes. 00:09:21 On the topic of family graphs. 00:09:26 it's the only one with actual time travel fuckery 00:09:26 Family monoids? 00:09:38 family rings 00:09:38 @google the man who folded himself 00:09:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Folded_Himself 00:09:39 Title: The Man Who Folded Himself - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 00:09:41 also notable 00:09:58 if only heinlein wasn't a complete arsehole 00:10:07 Phantom_Hoover: I'm pretty sure back to the future is about marty having sex with his mother 00:10:12 then we could read his stories about spacetime incest in peace. 00:10:19 What was that other time travel thing he wrote? 00:10:41 By the way, white folk (probably most of you), did you know that you're part neanderthal? It's true! 00:11:04 i was thinking of... i forget the title, time enough for love maybe? i think he has sex with his mother, and also twin clones of himself or something 00:11:17 By His Bootstraps is the on I was thinking of there. 00:11:17 is there any racial group that isn't part neanderthal? 00:11:19 all at the same time? 00:11:24 Fiora: African. 00:11:29 ahhhh 00:11:30 Also The Door Into Summer. That was a good one. 00:11:45 homo sapiens purity. purge the nonafricans 00:12:17 Well I, for one, find it fascinating, so nyaa. 00:12:27 zzo38: so maybe you can have each line be an ordered list of prefixes 00:12:35 -!- ogrom has joined. 00:12:49 zzo38: and some "debugger" would tell you if there are redundancies 00:13:27 Arc_Koen: OK. I can try that. 00:13:30 Gregor, um 00:13:44 though I'm not sure whether redundancy is good or bad 00:13:55 isn't the point at which the human ancestor pool merges at most a few millenia ago 00:14:56 kmc: Did you read _The Door Into Summer_? 00:15:04 zzo38: additionally the 'debugger' could also warn you of "nodes" which are not at the beginning of a line 00:15:32 Phantom_Hoover: It's closer to 200,000 years. 00:15:34 I think everyone has *some* Neanderthal ancestors, Africans just don't have many. 00:15:36 uh, not sure what I meant 00:15:42 Gregor, uhhhh, not what I'd heard. 00:16:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam // one ancestor is as recent as 60,000 years, but no more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve // the other, ~200,000 years. 00:17:02 that's not what they said in stargate 00:17:13 Gregor, those are *direct male and female lines*. 00:17:21 Adam and Eve were born 140,000 years apart? 00:17:45 I think in some episode they find a frozen human body that's a hundred million years or so old 00:18:00 Phantom_Hoover: The last real merge of humanity into a single pool was before the latest exodus from Africa (duh), and our intermingling with neanderthals just after it. 00:18:01 Gregor: Please use https: Wikipedia links. 00:18:03 "thanks" 00:18:07 ^rot13 Gregor 00:18:08 Tertbe 00:18:15 Gregor, doesn't have to be a single pool. 00:18:19 ^rot13 Gregory 00:18:20 Tertbel 00:18:31 One migrant can very quickly propagate their ancestry through an isolated population. 00:18:51 shachaf: yeah that's gotta count as statutory rape or something 00:19:30 Hmm, I suppose "born" isn't quite the right word to use there. 00:19:54 i thought the last common ancestor thing was at the bottleneck after that explosion in east asia. 00:20:02 Adam and Eve were born 140,000 years apart? <-- basically males tend to spread their genes faster than females, so the direct male lines also die out faster 00:20:05 Phantom_Hoover: The study they did found /no/ neanderthal genomes in modern Africans. 00:20:06 afaiu 00:20:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor#MRCA_of_all_living_humans ? 00:20:23 (For the group they studied) 00:20:39 edwardk did that skew binary online LCA thing. 00:21:12 "The identical ancestors point for Homo sapiens has been estimated to between 15,000 and 5,000 years ago." 00:21:20 Gregor: Please use https: Wikipedia links. <-- please don't 00:21:39 (sure i can edit them by hand...) 00:21:41 Neanderthals died out around twice as far back. 00:22:10 oerjan: What's the matter with https:? 00:22:11 oerjan: do you mean males can use the 9-month pause in the spreading somewhere to start spreading elsewhere? 00:22:39 Arc_Koen: SOMETHING LIKE THAT 00:23:33 Phantom_Hoover: That statistic is contrary to everything else I have ever read, including in relevant college courses >_> 00:24:21 shachaf: oh hm when i tested now it worked fine, i'm still logged in and everything. 00:24:32 https: works great. 00:24:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:24:51 I bet oerjan is just the NSA trying to spy on my Wikipedia readin's. 00:24:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:27:20 Gregor: could be true though, that ancestor can be through mixed male and female lines after all, so not as restricted as "adam" and "eve" 00:28:03 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:28:37 and because of this, you cannot simply measure it by comparing dna like with the single-line inherited parts 00:29:37 heh, "It is incorrect to assume that the MRCA passed all of his or her genes (or indeed any gene) down to every person alive." 00:30:11 we could have a common ancestor that left no genes at all... 00:31:16 I like the Ship of Theseus mention 00:31:34 -!- ogrom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:32:19 oerjan: of course at that point you're feeling the urge to do the math 00:32:21 -!- ogrom has joined. 00:32:34 oh identical ancestors point is something else again 00:33:41 in fact i think we discussed that very concept on the channel a while ago 00:33:51 (without the name) 00:35:03 So, it looks like all the stuff suggesting 15,000-5,000 years is based on computer models of human populations. 00:35:33 they didn't even bother to build a time machine to conduct the experiment? 00:35:35 Whereas the recent (2010) study finding neanderthal genes was, y'know, not models. It was people, and their genes. 00:35:59 Yes, but you haven't actually addressed the point about common ancestors not necessarily implying common genes. 00:36:20 Right, if there's sufficiently little flow then they can end up sort of flushing the last bits out anyway. 00:36:27 And still having neanderthals in their line. 00:37:41 ...so what're we disagreeing on? 00:37:47 I suppose we're not :) 00:37:59 I just preferred the original interpretation to the possibly-more-accurate one ;) 00:40:08 I suppose the accurate version is "you're descended from Neanderthals, but if you're African you might as well not be". 00:40:26 Yeah. 00:46:04 Arc_Koen: What did you mean, note not at the beginning of a line? 00:46:43 Why does the Haskell read function not allow comments? 00:47:30 zzo38: hmmm well imagine if you have a line "2 4 12 24 48" and another line "3 6 12 36" 00:47:39 then the two lines "cross" at 12 00:47:48 O, OK. 00:48:15 I'm not sure that's a problem; maybe crossing prefixes should be hilighted or something 00:49:05 because that makes 36 bigger than 2 00:49:56 so when you're for instance looking for "all prefixes bigger than 2" you might want not to scan all the lines, only the lines for which the first element is bigger than 2 00:50:20 sorry I did not mean "cross" I meant "merge" 00:50:22 i think what you want to avoid for redundancy is anything that can be deduced from transitivity. i.e. don't list adjacently any prefixes that have intermediate ones between them 00:50:40 so if you have 2 4 12, then 2 12 would not be allowed. 00:50:52 yes that's what I meant 00:51:04 oh and of course no adjacent pairs should be repeated 00:51:04 Well, perhaps it should still be allowed even though it is redundant, it could still be a warning. 00:51:31 But there is not allowed different ones equal in this context so that would be error. 00:51:34 though I'm not so sure it's such a bad thing - maybe you very much want one prefix to be lower than another, notwithstanding intermediate prefixes 00:52:24 Arc_Koen: um that's an automatic consequence, since this is a partial order 00:52:28 it should of course check for cycles and stuff 00:52:29 One idea I have is, every line only lists what is lesser, and some things are deduced from transitivity 00:53:00 I wanted to use Haskell format, but the read function doesn't allow comments, so I won't use that. 00:53:06 you only need to list things that are "closest neighbors" 00:53:11 oerjan: I'm talking about "maintainability" of the partial order description file :) 00:53:25 well ok 00:54:14 Well, this file will contain more than just the partial order. 00:56:51 although i am also thinking you might want to have groupings. for example if you have 1 4, 1 5, 1 6, 2 4, 2 5, 2 6, 3 4, 3 5, 3 6 then it would be shorter to say that all of 1 2 and 3 are smaller than all of 4 5 and 6 if you can name groups. 00:58:01 hm this is almost essentially the same problem as how to design a more flexible way of giving haskell operator precedences 00:58:23 oerjan: oh you only make pairs? 00:58:30 I was thinking you could make whole lines 00:58:41 ie compress 1 2, 2 3, 3 4 as 1 2 3 4 00:58:43 oerjan: I really think the operator precedences ought to be surreal numbers. 00:58:52 Arc_Koen: that was just in that example, which had no lines to make 00:59:49 maybe you could make 1 2 3 an equivalency class if they share the same properties 00:59:52 zzo38: ...but those are totally ordered, which may be unsuitable... oh well right, there are other issues with operators. 00:59:57 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:00:08 and maybe you could give a scope to that class if they don't have all their properties in common 01:01:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:02:40 I don't know exactly what the file syntax should be, although probably not Haskell because its read function does not parse comments. 01:03:35 But I did think of the idea to make the partial ordering, but if you have a better idea you can specify your ideas too. 01:05:28 what is the ordering be used for anyway? 01:06:25 Well, it is an optional feature (programs using this file are not required to support it), but can be used to define "baby pokemon" according to the definition I used, if you want to use that definition. 01:14:33 Would you like this: this_prefix(lesser_prefixes): "text" url 01:17:04 The URL can be any internet URL, telephone, postal address, or ISBN. 01:17:38 Perhaps also allow Tor domains. 01:17:46 -!- jfischoff has joined. 01:18:02 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:18:24 If the list of lesser prefixes is empty you omit the parentheses; if you include them with nothing in between, it includes a single entry which is the empty (Nintendo) prefix. 01:20:25 The URL and text is recommended to be ASCII, although Unicode is allowed (including Conscripts), however they must be encoded using ASCII format: For URL, encoding using % or punycode. For text, encoded using Haskell string literal syntax. 01:20:45 somehow i'm thinking the other way around would be more logical, with () meaning empty, since it is explicit 01:20:46 Comments have # at front of the line. 01:21:27 oerjan: Well, maybe... 01:26:12 Still, I am thinking () is a single blank prefix, because the entries separated by commas, and so no comma = 1 entry, which is blank. 01:26:20 That is why I did it that way. 01:30:25 @wn avuncular 01:30:26 *** "avuncular" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 01:30:26 avuncular 01:30:26 adj 1: resembling a uncle in kindness or indulgence 01:30:26 2: being or relating to an uncle 01:32:34 oerjan: Why do you think other way is really more logical? 01:33:28 oh hey, i remember that word from anthropology class. are you still looking up MRCA stuff? 01:35:33 zzo38: well i guess it's intuitive from what () means in haskell, like in import lists and tuples. 01:36:23 Well, yes but if it is Haskell we would use square brackets because it is a list. 01:36:43 i guess C tends to use more of () as "use defaults" sometimes 01:36:48 zzo38: not in import lists 01:37:12 oerjan: Well, yes, in import lists () does mean an empty list, and nothing at all means, it is everything. 01:37:43 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 01:39:00 And even if it is Haskell, this isn't an import list anyways. 01:40:21 more like an inheritance list. but haskell has (A a, B a) => for that instead. 01:40:59 No, it isn't an inheritance list either; it is only a partial ordering. 01:41:18 oh well 01:41:38 * oerjan no good argue about not facts 01:41:50 hi oerjan 01:41:58 hi shachaf 01:42:07 you look very avuncular today 01:42:32 Even then, for an inheritance list, omitting it does not mean it inherits everything or meaning it inherits anything which it will not inherit if you do include the list. And with import lists, no () means import everything, which is also different to mine. 01:42:51 So, either way, it doesn't work. 01:45:14 Now you may see what my logic is, although other ideas are still possible, such as something before or after each item, so you explicitly know the empty item. 01:52:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:04:06 The file "interlocks.h" for Csound, is I cannot find a document of it, but I look at the other codes to try to figure it out, but still I don't know what SB and _QQ mean, and some codes also use 0x20 as an interlock value and I don't know what that means either. 02:08:02 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 02:11:54 #define MEMDEF(x) x; typedef struct { x object[sizeof(x)<0xFF00?1:-1]; } x##__ 02:16:05 Have you used these kind of things in any C codes? 02:19:08 How would you even use that 02:21:52 http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/csound5extending.html#AddmodAddSpace 02:22:49 Does that explain it to you? 02:24:26 good grief, was this written for the IOCCC? 02:24:33 "f-rate streaming pvoc fsig type" 02:24:40 I don't think that counts as English 02:25:29 Are you sure? Well, I don't think it was written for the IOCCC. 02:25:47 What happens when an array ends up with a -1 size anyways 02:25:55 You get a compiler error. 02:25:57 Is that just a hacky and unreadable way to causing a compiler error? 02:26:30 I wouldn't call it unreadable. 02:26:38 Also where would you use that macro 02:26:43 The "x;" at the start intrigues me 02:27:45 typedef struct { OPDS h; MYFLT*ao; MYFLT*ai; } MEMDEF(mem_avecrev); 02:27:57 oh it comes at the end of a typedef 02:29:04 I think I once made a piece of software somethign like this thing thing 02:29:25 It was graphical though. 02:30:25 And I never really bothered coming up with interesting blocks 02:30:40 Or modules or whatever you call them 02:31:15 I wonder if browsers are fast enough to do it in JavaScript these days 02:31:30 I still don't trust JS when it comes to raw math performance 02:32:22 Well, this is Csound; what software were you using? 02:34:18 er 02:34:19 GCC? 02:34:32 I was making my own thing from scratch. This was years ago 02:35:16 What did the program do? 02:35:28 zzo38: How long have you had your nick? 02:35:35 Was it always 38, or a different number once? 02:35:56 shachaf: Always 38 02:36:05 I don't know how long. 02:37:24 It made sounds 02:37:41 I had basic waveform generators, ADSR, some filters, and MIDI input. 02:37:51 Plus a block that takes a chain and clones it for polyphony. 02:38:08 It'd be kind of fun to make something like this with a physical interface 02:38:22 Something that looks like an analog modular synthesizer but is really just a simulation. 02:38:28 But that's probably never going to happen 02:38:47 oerjan: Do I really? 02:40:17 shachaf: just about ready to engage in some nepotism, i'd say 02:40:50 oerjan: Hm, I was leaning toward despotism. 02:40:59 those go well together 03:01:20 Lumpio-: Csound does such things and even more, and probably could even be made to connect to a physical interface. 03:01:39 what about a mental interface 03:02:31 It might be possible too, I don't know 03:03:46 Chrome seems to be seriously struggling with the new tab page 03:09:44 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:26:39 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:31:11 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 03:33:41 ohai o/ something blew up somewhere near and caused a power failure <.< 03:34:00 `welcome c00kiemon5ter 03:34:08 c00kiemon5ter: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:34:20 i've had this message before 03:34:31 `WeLcOmE c00kiemon5ter 03:34:36 C00kIeMoN5TeR: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 03:35:00 :) 03:35:35 although i bet elliott still hasn't made the link work 03:46:48 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:48:02 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 04:14:49 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:55:35 -!- micahjohnston has joined. 05:02:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:08:24 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:08:42 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 05:12:13 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:17:51 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 05:26:15 -!- jfischoff has joined. 05:57:19 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:57:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:57:19 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:00:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:03:42 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:23:19 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 06:25:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:25:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:25:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:12:11 lament is so positive and full of hope in the 2003 logs 07:12:47 Where is lament? 07:12:52 Oh, 2003 07:13:08 Stuck in 2003, how horrible. 07:13:27 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 07:13:36 fizzie: Well, lament is moving forward in time. 07:13:40 But unfortunately so are we. 07:13:46 We'll always be 9 years ahead. :-( 07:14:00 elliott: Fiora 07:14:12 fizzie hasn't changed a bit 07:16:20 what with the topics on this channel, not a surprise (s?he|it) refused. 07:16:20 Maybe I'm stuck in 2003 too. 07:17:17 how old are you and how old is lament? 07:18:18 I wasn't this old then. 07:18:35 i'm looking for a number 07:18:53 29 now, I think. 07:19:59 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 07:20:33 interesting 07:20:57 I don't know about the age of lament(ation). 07:21:29 The lament of their women, as Conan says. 07:21:58 yay, ten people! 07:22:17 Should Proce have command to specify external input/output? 07:22:19 so weird 07:22:28 Otherwise, it doesn't do much. 07:23:25 Yay, sixty-eight people! 07:23:29 Still including clog! 07:23:40 fungot: You count as people too! 07:23:41 fizzie: before the renaissance, western mathematics was pretty shitty on the notation side. 07:24:03 fungot: That's a direct quote, you lazy. 07:24:04 fizzie: it is used or something like that wouldn't be equally tricky if you want 07:24:16 That probably isn't. Though you never know. 07:25:59 and i made a 3D bf with the IP being a SPACESHIP (now that's REAL COOL, right?), then i made a lang called metafuck, where you can execute the memory with it's own nulled memory 07:26:01 wait. 07:26:12 am i just sarcastic from the beginning 07:26:49 it seems i've calmed down quite a bit in any case 07:36:56 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 07:43:51 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:00:17 /o/ 08:00:21 myndzi? 08:08:06 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:12:42 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 08:12:55 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:26:04 -!- aloril has joined. 08:32:10 -!- monqy has joined. 08:34:32 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:36:49 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 08:40:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:40:30 -!- carado has joined. 08:40:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:43:16 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:44:00 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:00:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:14:14 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:14:35 monqy: omg that takes ages :D 09:14:46 hi 09:15:19 -!- nooga has joined. 09:17:04 monqy: or maybe its my function :o 09:23:52 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:37:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:38:22 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:51:25 -!- epicmonkey_ has joined. 10:13:08 -!- jix has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 10:23:02 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:24:21 -!- carado has joined. 10:24:47 -!- quintopia has joined. 10:36:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:41:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:57:20 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 11:10:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:20:36 -!- elliott has joined. 11:26:01 -!- ion has joined. 11:27:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:33:47 -!- epicmonkey_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:34:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:39:33 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:59:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:02:47 -!- jix has joined. 12:25:13 -!- monqy has joined. 12:26:43 -!- jix has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:50 -!- jix has joined. 12:33:50 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:35:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:36:23 -!- augur has joined. 12:41:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:47:39 -!- asiekierka has joined. 12:47:46 Long time no see! 12:54:01 -!- boily has joined. 12:56:17 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Quit: KEEP SPARKS. FLAME AWAY.). 12:56:45 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 13:03:34 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ asiekierka 13:03:47 ​ＡＳＩＥＫＩＥＲＫＡ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ，　ＣＨＥＣＫ　ＯＵＴ　ＯＵＲ　ＷＩＫＩ：　ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬ 13:05:10 -!- augur has joined. 13:10:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 13:17:52 That's so big. 13:19:35 Also, this monitor developed a full-height vertical line of always-on blue pixels in the 354th column. It is visible also in the monitor startup logo splash and in different graphics modes. 13:20:23 I think it is a fault. 13:21:17 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:21:31 -!- nooga has joined. 13:21:51 >354th column 13:21:53 ah the accuracy 13:22:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:22:15 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:23:11 -!- boily has joined. 13:23:44 It might be the 353th or the 355th column, to be honest. 13:24:14 Gotta be more accurate br 13:24:15 o 13:24:18 Get a magnifying glass 13:24:40 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:26:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:27:49 -!- nooga_ has joined. 13:30:41 -!- boily has joined. 13:31:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:49:43 -!- kallisti has joined. 13:49:43 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 13:49:43 -!- kallisti has joined. 13:49:52 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:53:23 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:55:17 -!- nooga has joined. 14:13:33 fizzie: are you using a iMac? 14:14:38 I have a friend with an iMac who developed the same problem (though he did not tell me the number of the column). Later on the monitor developed a second column like that, except purple instead of blue. 14:18:01 No, it's just a monitor. 14:18:09 Some old Fujitsu-Siemens leftover. 14:21:44 fizzie: hi 14:22:03 (It's not *my* monitor. I'd be more dismayed if it were.) 14:22:09 Well HELLO THERE. 14:26:29 so elliott have you started that fortress 14:26:43 fizzie has 14:27:46 oh good 14:27:55 fizzie can be counted on 14:27:57 he's dependable 14:28:15 relatedly, 14:28:20 fizzie: help me with SSL thanks ! 14:28:48 tswett: is 107.5.152.253 you? 14:35:12 Probably. 14:35:55 Yup, that's me. 14:36:33 tswett: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=///&curid=1636&diff=34935&oldid=33068 hides a link to a user page which is a no-go by the wiki policies 14:36:44 Ah. 14:36:55 In that case, no, that's not me. 14:37:08 well I wanted to know so I could ask what you wanted done :P 14:37:17 would be easy to make a [[Tanner Swett]] stub that linked to the user page, that would suffice 14:37:25 I just changed it to "Tanner Swett ([[User:Ihope127]])". 14:37:42 don't you mean 107.5.152.253 did :P 14:37:52 thanks, anyway 14:37:52 Yes, yes. 14:38:02 I should really fix it so that links to the /// page actually work again 14:39:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:55:57 "The process of constructing instruction tables should be very fascinating. There need be no real danger of it ever becoming a drudge, for any processes that are quite mechanical may be turned over to the machine itself." -- Turing 14:57:03 "I'm hungry." -- Nathan "Taneb" van Doorn 15:02:59 elliott: nice 15:03:53 via http://arcanesentiment.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/there-need-be-no-real-danger-of-it-ever.html via http://alarmingdevelopment.org/?p=711, fwiw 15:03:58 or are those vias the wrong way around 15:07:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:46:15 blind vias and buried vias 15:50:34 if the last character in a /// program si \ what happens? 15:52:05 "If the character is \, the character after it (if any) is printed and both characters are removed from the program." 15:52:24 oh right, if any 16:01:16 that description is less than clear admittedly (I wrote it) 16:04:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:05:03 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 16:34:54 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:37:37 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:38:50 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 17:08:20 -!- Bike has joined. 17:43:09 -!- hey has joined. 17:43:13 hey 17:43:17 every one 17:43:29 For programmer HELLO WORLD :) 17:43:32 -!- hey has changed nick to Guest89142. 17:44:00 hey 17:44:06 -!- Guest89142 has left. 17:46:44 Ohhhhhhhhhh kay 17:46:59 -!- Gregor has set topic: hey hey hey everyone for programmer HELLO WORLD! | Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 17:47:10 Ohwait 17:47:13 -!- Gregor has set topic: hey hey hey every one for programmer HELLO WORLD! | Logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 18:35:25 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:43:38 -!- carado has joined. 18:46:39 Isn't that missing a hey. 18:46:43 tswett: Did you make Proce esolang? I think there should be the way to specify external input/output? 18:46:50 hey hey hey every one hey for programmer HELLO WORLD. 18:46:51 fizzie: No, it is missing a key. 18:47:08 fizzie: I opted to paraphrase. 18:47:44 And the log URL is missing a percentage sign. 19:05:31 @ping 19:05:31 pong 19:05:36 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:05:46 -!- elliott has joined. 19:07:10 there was a hey after HELLO WORLD! too 19:08:08 hey hey, hello world hey ... has a nice ring to it somehow 19:08:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:08:43 hello 19:08:44 I can no longer visit the page "///" on the wiki for some reason 19:09:04 it has been like this for months because I am lazy and awful 19:09:07 you can go to "Slashes" instaed 19:09:09 *instead 19:09:10 Yes, I know 19:09:10 sorry 19:09:13 I will fix it sometime 19:09:22 but, the language list redirects you to /// 19:13:57 well 19:14:03 I guess I could change that 19:14:42 oh wait, never mind, it does redirect you to Slashes 19:18:14 zzo38: I did make Proce, yeah, and there's no one obvious way to do I/O. 19:18:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:19:46 tswett: To me would seem, should have some line indicating the outputs and inputs? 19:20:16 I might try to implement this, as a Csound plugin. 19:46:25 tswett: Do you think that may be reasonable way doing I/O? 19:46:34 Or, do you want a different way? 19:53:50 How do you program Mozilla to finish loading the HTML before attempting to load any CSS, script, images, etc? 19:54:43 Finish loading or finish rendering? 19:57:22 Both. 19:57:55 well for one you should probably upgrade to firefox or seamonkey but I think that is not what you mean 19:58:00 because I"m pretty sure you need CSS and some scripts before it can be rendered properly 19:59:10 I mean the Mozilla engine (so that includes Firefox and so on) 19:59:19 gecko? 19:59:22 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:59:29 -!- ogrom has left. 19:59:37 or are you insane enough to tamper with mariner? 20:01:49 I think it could be rendered not too bad, if you don't use the CSS/scripts; it should display placeholders for images, and if for any reason it cannot finish rendering, it ought to still be required to finish loading first. 20:01:57 And then render as much as possible, before loading the rest. 20:02:30 hi elliott 20:02:47 hello 20:06:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:09:18 /o/ 20:09:24 hm... 20:09:29 ^celebrate 20:09:29 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 20:09:40 oh noes 20:09:42 myndzi...... 20:10:22 looks distinctly idle 20:10:29 poor guys, their heads and arms are all chopped off 20:13:09 myndzi: hi 20:24:04 FireFly: There are also some disembodied hands. 20:28:50 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:30:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:31:06 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:31:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:31:18 Can FM synthesis be done with acoustics rather than electronics? 20:32:38 isn't that almost how humans speak? 20:32:52 I don't know. 20:33:03 olsner: Nah 20:33:15 Human speech is really more of resonance and resonant filtering 20:33:20 But I mean using strings and pipes and so on, not using speech. 20:33:22 I guess you could, at least to some extent 20:33:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:34:01 FM works by taking an oscillation and using it to change the frequency of another oscillation 20:34:11 Then there is PM which changes the phase instead 20:34:19 For some reason synthesiser companies call PM FM 20:36:52 So there is, frequency modulation, phase modulation, but is there duty modulation? 20:37:21 pulse-width modulation? 20:37:39 The "squarewave" command in my Csound plugin could probably duty modulation too since the duty is an x-rate parameter 20:38:06 kmc: I guess it is like that. 20:38:43 Still with this command, the frequency is also x-rate, so you could make both the frequency and duty to be modulated. 20:42:01 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:46:30 "FM" as a general term certainly doesn't really require the modulating signal to be an LFO or any sort of oscillator; the pitch effects of human speech (which work by altering the vocal fold oscillation frequency) are arguably rather clear examples of FM. (The bit that generally carries all "content", i.e. the frequency responses of the resonant filters, perhaps not so much.) 20:46:54 fizzie: of course the speech recognition researcher jumps to the voice 20:46:58 it's all about speech recognition!! 20:47:21 zzo38: Ever heard of the Commodore 64? 20:48:18 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 20:49:15 -_- 20:49:21 one pole, washed away 20:49:54 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 20:50:26 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:55:39 elliott: It was someone else who brought up the voice topic. 20:56:18 -!- yorberth_puente has joined. 20:58:33 `welcome yorberth_puente 20:58:38 yorberth_puente: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:00:19 Does anyone ever talk about deployment in here? 21:00:43 -!- yorberth_puente has quit (Excess Flood). 21:00:44 `cat bin/welcome 21:00:47 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 21:01:12 10 tips for deploying brainfuck in production 21:01:14 `run wc -c bin/welcome 21:01:17 135 bin/welcome 21:01:27 `run ls bin 21:01:31 ​? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping 21:01:46 `cat bin/\? 21:01:49 `run cat bin/\? 21:01:49 cat: bin/\?: No such file or directory 21:01:51 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z) \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" \ 21:01:58 `cat wisdom/welcome 21:02:01 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:02:13 `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' 21:02:16 sed: no input files 21:02:18 `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 21:02:21 No output. 21:02:39 `welcome fizzie 21:02:42 fizzie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:03:36 Oh! I thought it was like mediums and channeling and angel healing. 21:05:40 and angle grinding 21:08:29 angle grinding? 21:08:41 An acute case of angels. 21:09:14 There was a book at the book store called Angels in My Hair. Plus two further books "from the author of Angels in My Hair". 21:09:50 "In this uplifting autobiography, a modern-day Irish mystic shares her vivid encounters and conversations with the angels and spirits she has known her entire life." 21:10:09 "For as long as she can remember, Lorna Byrne has seen angels. As a young child, she assumed everyone could see the otherworldly beings who always accompanied her. Yet in the eyes of adults, her abnormal behavior was a symptom of mental deficiency. Today, sick and troubled people from around the world are drawn to her for comfort and healing, and even theologians of different faiths seek her ... 21:10:15 ... guidance." ...yeah. 21:10:30 Just think! People dared to think she might have something wrong in the head department. 21:11:05 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:12:00 how despicable 21:12:17 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 21:21:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:22:57 fizzie, otoh this /is/ in ireland 21:26:33 does this mean the other hand is under ireland? 21:28:09 probably 21:28:52 it could also mean mayonnaise 21:29:27 * oerjan gently fails at sweeping norwegian princess Märtha Louise under the rug 21:29:55 the pithy observation i was leading up to is that irish culture isn't really one of hardline rationalism 21:31:23 oerjan, why, is she nuts 21:31:55 her wikipedia doesn't make her sound /that/ much crazier than prince charles 21:33:59 Phantom_Hoover: that's like "not /that/ much hotter than the sun" or "not /that/ much wetter than the Atlantic Ocean". Or, y'know, "not /that/ much less usable than Haskell" 21:34:08 (sorry. contractual obligation) 21:34:12 you're not a very good troll 21:34:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:34:26 soundnfury is back? 21:34:34 yeah, well, you can't fire me. Trolls have an /awesome/ union 21:34:40 or maybe it's a struct, I'm not sure 21:34:45 wait is he the climate change denialist tory 21:34:47 its members might not overlap 21:34:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:34:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:34:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:34:56 oerjan: I'm afraid I am 21:35:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_M%C3%A4rtha_Louise_of_Norway#Spirituality_school_controversy anyway 21:35:10 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not a tory! I'm an anarcho-capitalist libertarian 21:35:22 there /is/ a difference 21:36:04 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:36:28 oerjan, well obviously i already read that 21:36:29 23E4 STRAIGHTNESS [⏤] 21:36:29 23E5 FLATNESS [⏥] 21:36:34 kmc: Did you know those? 21:36:34 OKAY 21:36:45 -!- olsner has set topic: Use angels and your own power to create miracles in the logs: http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 21:37:38 olsner, not helping with the 'no, not that kind of esoteric' problem 21:37:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:37:57 I'm not exactly trying to :) 21:37:59 meh, we never talk about esolangs /anyway/, what does it matter? 21:38:20 we do too! several times a week, sometimes 21:38:21 (well, except when we talk about Haskell) <-- seriously guys, it says in my contract that I have to do this. 21:39:01 soundnfury: the contract also says what eventually happens to your soul, i take 21:39:04 this is not funny now, and i'm not sure it ever was 21:39:12 and is signed in blood 21:39:13 I liked today's Critical Miss 21:39:29 being self-aware of one's idiocy does not excuse it 21:40:20 Phantom_Hoover: I just wanted to make sure everyone could remember who I was. I'll stop now 21:40:31 soundnfury isn't identical to fax? just checking. 21:40:32 (unless there are any /really good/ opportunities, then I might be unable to resist) 21:40:43 hmm, they're both british 21:40:54 fax is british? 21:41:11 well they made clangers references 21:41:12 I am most assuredly /not/ a low-resolution image transmission system 21:41:24 fungot: Quick, talk about esolangs! 21:41:27 there may have been other things also 21:41:28 ... 21:41:45 ^echo Hello there. 21:41:45 Hello there. Hello there. 21:41:47 ... 21:41:54 fungot, are you okay? 21:41:55 Taneb: i took up emacs so i can do 21:41:57 fungot: Do you have something AGAINST esolangs there? 21:41:57 fizzie: look to the past.... 21:42:05 Spooky. 21:42:06 Is fungot's "echo" supposed to... well... echo like that? 21:42:06 soundnfury: manipulating xml as sexps?) or you can 21:42:08 experience, clearly 21:42:13 oooh you've upset fungot 21:42:13 Phantom_Hoover: it's the return of the last 21:42:21 fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? 21:42:21 olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 21:42:23 yay, sexps! 21:42:28 soundnfury: of course, it wouldn't me much of an echo if it only said things _once_, would it? 21:42:47 ^echo a duck's quack 21:42:47 a duck's quack a duck's quack 21:42:55 well, that disproves /that/ urban legend! 21:43:10 sorry, I'm very bored and not a little drowsy 21:43:21 this may lead to minor outbursts of insanity 21:43:42 a drow! kill it! 21:44:00 fungot: what do you think of APL? 21:44:01 FireFly: it was the joke. shriram krishnamurthi was saying that the headings should always use the -sign for arrays.... not insert /way/ better alternative. 21:44:19 Oh, okay 21:44:27 fungot: what do you think of AAPL? 21:44:28 soundnfury: upper management latched on to anything with a suxor name...) construct where parts of app pass procedures to compose: ( ( (1 2 3) 21:44:45 that's almost true! 21:45:09 Well, why wouldn't it be? 21:45:15 fungot always speak the truth 21:45:15 FireFly: you can request fnord at a distance 5000 feet.) mention what you managed to install fnord 21:45:42 `addquote fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 21:45:43 oerjan: i have access to your screen sessions, most of the time 21:45:45 863) fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 21:46:10 oerjan: I'd be afraid if I were you 21:46:21 I wouldn't want fungot messing with my screen sessions 21:46:21 FireFly: iso media, apple quicktime movie 21:46:22 FireFly: that would be worrisome if i used screen 21:46:45 heck, the mere fact of using screen would be worrisome 21:47:08 FireFly: fungot has actually been known to lie, but usually he corrupts the hard disks of anyone who has a log of the event 21:47:08 soundnfury: can you see pretty easily what's going on? 21:47:32 soundnfury: DON'T ANSWER THAT 21:47:45 ircing #esoteric through screen would give fungot access to your screen session 21:47:45 olsner: wait a sec :) just store the symbols and labels)? 21:47:47 fsvo access 21:47:54 fungot: *I* can pretty easily see what's going on. 21:47:54 GreyKnight: it's definitively no toy environment'. it's great 21:48:01 * soundnfury chortles. Fnordingly. 21:48:30 ^style 21:48:30 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 21:48:43 fungot, don't you want to talk to me? 21:48:44 GreyKnight: methinkx it was the fastest back then; the guile people are slow to calculate them lazily. that is 21:49:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:49:10 fungot: back then, huh? 21:49:10 FireFly: or is there another way 21:49:47 fungot: yeah the guile people *are* slow, aren't they? 21:49:48 GreyKnight: if i want to mail a poor teacher a copy?). having to pack values into a monad moot. 21:50:02 must... resist... temptation... to mock monads... 21:50:27 i mock monads so they're easier to test 21:50:45 oh this again 21:51:18 fungot: what would happen if I were to pack soundnfury into a monad, do you suppose? 21:51:18 GreyKnight: i think it's gotta run at fnord 21:51:34 fungot: yes, obviously it would 21:51:35 FireFly: and we want to switch back and forth, but if i was you, i'd leave him. everyone has hated him since. the end. 21:51:45 That's sad 21:51:47 :-D 21:53:37 * soundnfury is used to being hated 21:53:41 but being hated by a bot? 21:53:46 that's just low 21:54:21 fungot: let's talk about Feather. What would be a good name for a Feather interpreter? 21:54:21 GreyKnight: let me rephrase! " captive market" anybody? 21:54:36 fungot: Perfect, thanks! 21:54:37 GreyKnight: care to describe it. 21:55:05 fungot: what should be the foundation of my next esolang? I'm thinking something involving ed 21:55:06 soundnfury: if my macro does not. cmuscheme.el does. 21:55:09 well, first I'll implement it in some other language, then retroactively host it in Feather all the way down 21:55:50 Quill 21:55:53 fungot: soo... reimplement ed in lisp, or reimplement emacs on top of ed? 21:55:54 soundnfury: we disagree about where it was revealed that the health service had a hospital running for several months and come back 21:55:54 fungot wants GreyKnight to describe the inner workings of this Feather interpreter? oh god. 21:55:54 FireFly: if you used a proper xml production library that can be used as a teaching language. 21:56:13 I'm surprised how relevant he manages to be 21:56:26 GreyKnight: IT'S A TRAP 21:56:35 IT'S A TARP 21:56:50 yeah, but I'm not quite sure what the relevance of the NHS is to my question about ed-macs 21:57:26 fungot: what's your favourite programming paradigm? 21:57:26 FireFly: so it's two proof, after which you can ask 21:57:56 clearly you should sell ed-macs systems to the hospitals 21:58:47 GreyKnight: nah, they already have MUMPS 22:06:09 ais523: I am actually going to call it captive-market now, just FYI 22:07:51 GreyKnight, you aren't trying to write a feather interpreter are you 22:08:11 I can neither confirm nor deny this statement 22:08:41 Hmm 22:09:03 Would the TardisT monad transformer be useful for writing a feather interpreter 22:10:06 does it take up less memory than it contains 22:10:28 I don't know 22:10:31 Ask me again in the past 22:11:36 i did, don't you remember? 22:12:48 Oh yes 22:13:17 On a different note, I'm listening to songs I don't really like in a language I don't speak a word of 22:13:22 do I really see soundnfury saying bullshit about haskell in the logs yet another day 22:13:28 can't you just go away forever or something 22:13:40 Taneb: why? 22:13:52 FireFly, TO PERFECT MY ROLEPLAY 22:14:13 * GreyKnight wraps soundnfury in a monad 22:14:20 elliott, oh no, don't you see? he's saying bullshit about haskell ironically 22:14:25 that makes him funny and interesting 22:14:35 interesting proposition! 22:14:46 i disagree and offer instead the proposition that it just makes him even more pointless 22:15:04 @pl soundnfury 22:15:04 soundnfury 22:15:07 Yep 22:15:12 He's as pointless as they get 22:15:19 he's being pointless ironically too! 22:15:24 @unpl soundnfury 22:15:25 soundnfury 22:16:05 -!- monqy has joined. 22:16:43 FireFly, really, it's just noise 22:17:12 he's like the fixed point of pointlessness 22:17:12 -!- Vorpal has joined. 22:22:09 You can't Y combinate me! 22:22:18 hi 22:22:25 please 22:22:29 this is embarrassing for everyone 22:23:00 i'm not embarrassed!!!!!!!!! 22:23:20 i'm just tiredly shaking my head 22:23:43 im smiling. hello soundnfury!!!welcome to esoteric 22:23:49 hello monqy 22:24:10 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: Reconnecting…). 22:24:16 I think I annoyed elliott by making a couple of haskell jibes 22:24:24 but I'm sure he'll get over it eventually 22:24:24 pfff that'd annoy anyone 22:24:27 FireFly, TO PERFECT MY ROLEPLAY <-- is this quenya, sindarin, klingon or something else? 22:24:36 don't worry about it : ) 22:25:02 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:25:27 yes soundnfury, elliott was annoyed to a positive fervour by the sick burns you landed on haskell 22:25:39 -!- jfischoff has joined. 22:25:42 your attitude to life would make willy loman proud 22:25:58 soundnfury: well it's more that you literally say nothing of value and have apparently created your "#esoteric persona" entirely around saying dumb things about haskell that nobody even cares about (because who cares about the opinions of someone who clearly knows nothing about haskell??) 22:25:59 (Y pointlessness) 22:26:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:26:25 so you live up to your name i.e. told by an idiot, signifying nothing 22:26:28 soundnfury: elliott's right!!! i know you only as "the haskellphobe" 22:26:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:26:33 elliott: I do occasionally talk about other things 22:26:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:26:39 like, actual esolangs 22:26:53 well maybe it would be good if you didn't drown that out with that dumbness 22:27:10 well maybe if there were more esolang talk in here there'd be something for me to talk about that wasn't dumb 22:28:04 case in point: what does some irish lass who thinks she talks to angels have to do with esolangs? 22:28:12 well so clearly you don't like the contents of this channel 22:28:17 so instead of feebly "trolling" the people inside 22:28:18 why not just go away 22:28:29 but I /do/ like the thing this channel is ostensibly about 22:28:40 hint: thats not what the channel is actually about. shoo 22:28:42 so you are going to troll it in the hopes it becomes off-topic??? 22:28:44 by talking about 22:28:47 something off-topic 22:29:01 i don't see how this can possibly have a productive end... you're freely admitting you are trying to bother us because you don't like what we talk about 22:29:19 fungot: what is the meaning of life? 22:29:19 GreyKnight: ' ( 1 2) ( scheme-report-environment 5) 22:29:37 elliott: I'm not actually trying to bother you 22:29:59 Ah, scheme. Of course. 22:30:05 I just have difficulty resisting the opportunities to direct childish humour at Haskell when I happen to be bored 22:30:29 well 22:30:33 and since, on days when I'm /not/ bored, there's not usually any conversation in this channel to join in with productively, 22:30:40 i think you will find everyone in the channel either doesn't care about it or is bothered by it 22:30:44 you only tend to hear from me when I'm bored 22:30:47 Well, *I'm* going to sleep 22:30:50 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz). 22:31:02 so perhaps restrain yourself?? or just don't join when you're bored 22:31:10 darn i was just going to xkcd him 22:31:35 I usually do restrain myself, but you don't see that, you only see the cases when my restraint fails 22:31:49 so, try not to hate me /too/ much for not being perfect at restraint 22:32:49 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:33:21 technically soundnfury had been here for hours before i noticed he was, of course that _was_ when he mentioned haskell. 22:34:12 well if you have a person the vast majority of who's (total pro grammar) contribution to the channel is to fail to restrain themselves and say dumb things then that's pretty suboptimal imo 22:34:50 programmers are in favour of syntax. Erm, I mean... they're pro grammar. 22:35:01 "whose" yw 22:35:07 haskell... more like FUCK SKULL am i right 22:35:14 (no, i am not) 22:35:51 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:36:07 kmc: good morrow, hail and well met. Prithee tell me how thou farest this day. 22:36:13 haskell more like who would ever use a language with no I/O and you can't have variables???????am i right 22:36:18 it's ok you are allowed to dis haskell here. but you have to do it in the type system. 22:37:11 monqy: i hear they represent strings as multiply-boxed linked lists!!! ha ha ha 22:37:12 and only because the kind system isn't powerful enough yet. 22:37:14 ( :( ) 22:37:37 be kind to your type system. or is that a category error? 22:38:51 On an unrelated topic, can someone give me architectural advice on a project I'm working on? 22:39:17 it's a programmable text editor (-ish thing) in Python... 22:39:20 no 22:39:22 in any case, http://hauptwerk.blogspot.no/2012/11/coming-soon-in-ghc-head-poly-kinded.html is _clearly_ relevant 22:39:38 sort it out yourself, or ask people you haven't systematically annoyed 22:40:12 Phantom_Hoover: but annoyed people can give good advice, under a set of implausible assumptions I won't list here 22:43:46 am i annoyed enough to give good advice ? 22:43:48 good to know the channel is getting back on topic 22:43:54 #esotexteditors 22:44:24 python is esoteric if you think about it hard enough 22:44:34 eschew's the common wisdom to use lexical scoping 22:44:42 now that's innovation 22:44:50 it's almost lexical scoping 22:45:18 monqy: i think python 3 gets it right? 22:45:19 not sure 22:45:21 "right" anyway 22:45:24 "Another cool thing is that now even type classes can have Typeable instances; since we allow abstraction over Constraint, datatypes may have parameters involving the Constraint kind, so to support Typeable for those datatypes, we need to support Typeable for type classes in general (as pointed out by Gábor Lehel)." 22:45:29 is this the future 22:45:39 is there an instance Typeable Typeable..... 22:45:57 a future in which the future is syb 22:45:57 holy god 22:47:02 what's python's scoping like 22:47:02 elliott: Want to write alongside for traversals? 22:47:06 this sounds juicy 22:47:35 are these lens shenanigans related to syb? 22:47:46 Not really. 22:47:53 I should add that the first part of it I'm implementing is actually an emulated `ed' session 22:48:35 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:48:45 fuck off and ask someone who cares 22:48:59 soundnfury: perhaps bonghits will fix your emulated `ed' session 22:49:25 Phantom_Hoover: oh. I was assuming you'd continue to maintain a pretense of civility 22:49:30 Phantom_Hoover: if you write "x = 3" in a nested function, it puts a binding in your most local frame, not in whatever frame (if any) originally defined 'x' 22:49:33 big whoop imo 22:49:42 soundnfury, ass of u and me, etc. 22:49:45 it's kind of like scheme's 'define' vs 'set!' 22:49:49 In Python 3 you can say nonlocal x 22:50:00 nonlocal? what a nice keyword 22:50:10 sorry wait no, you haven't made an ass of me at all 22:50:13 this arises because python doesn't have a distinction between declaring a variable and assigning to one 22:50:13 Well, local definitions like that may sometimes be useful in macros, although Haskell has bad support for macros anyways. 22:50:14 olsner: well, they couldn't call it "global", that was taken 22:50:16 which even scheme does kinda 22:50:19 now, does that mean "sane x" or just "different x" 22:50:29 you are simply digging your own fetid little hole ever-deeper 22:50:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:40 I have used macros like that in C, though. 22:50:52 the other thing about python is that 'for' loops and friends don't create new scopes; they mutate the counter variable in the function's scope 22:50:57 however many languages work this way 22:51:01 Phantom_Hoover: funny, it doesn't look that way to me 22:51:27 there is some additional weirdness with generator expressions tho 22:51:33 I love how choosing the wrong name for the iteration variable in a for loop causes bugs after the for loop 22:51:40 yes, your lack of perspective is one of your major flaws 22:51:47 and I haven't even /mentioned/ a certain language even though several other people have 22:51:49 see #3 here: http://web.archive.org/web/20101009122154/http://web.mit.edu/rwbarton/www/python.html 22:52:02 kmc: I heard you were going to get that back up on the real Internet. 22:52:05 not that I expected you to indicate any awareness of my restraint when present 22:52:27 ok so one of you has to go otherwise this dumb argument will continue on to infinity 22:52:30 i vote soundnfury 22:52:53 I've been /trying/ to let go, but Phantom_Hoover doesn't seem to like that idea 22:54:07 it's cute how you think you can just act obnoxiously and expect everyone to 'let go' 22:54:13 elliott, i vote soundnfury also 22:56:10 so, how about that other topic of conversation that isn't a pointless argument between me and Phantom_Hoover, eh? <-- if someone can provide one, I'd be grateful 22:56:38 no we'd be perfectly content for you to simply shut up 22:56:43 or get kicked 22:56:51 i vote both soundnfury and Phantom_Hoover shut up 23:01:12 http://pandyland.net/random/?comicid=722779190 23:01:19 elliott: Remember that one time I said nonsense in #haskell? 23:01:22 I read somewhere, making up cards of Magic: the Gathering only involving the name of itself and the text of the comprehensive rules. One card is a enchantment called "Nirvana" with text: Goblins cannot reach Nirvana. 23:02:00 shachaf: yep 23:02:08 I interpret it to mean that, if this card ever becomes a creature, and gains flying, then the reach ability does not permit other creatures to block it if those creatures have the "Goblin" creature type. 23:03:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:03:46 zzo38: nice 23:03:54 any other good examples? 23:03:58 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 23:04:18 The closest thing to “ nonsense” i could find was “ What nonsense?” on 2012-11-20. 23:04:35 ion: Don't logread me! 23:05:00 kmc: I don't have other examples, sorry. 23:10:36 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 23:10:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:12:59 the enchantment itself has to become a creature? 23:13:23 kmc: Yes, I think it would have to become a creature with flying before its text would have any effect on the game. 23:14:20 -!- nooga has joined. 23:18:24 Quoth Wikipedia: In 1864, Congress authorized a third series of fractional currency notes. The five-cent note was to bear a depiction of "Clark", but Congress was appalled when the issue came out not with a portrait of William Clark, the explorer, but Spencer M. Clark, head of the Currency Bureau. According to numismatic historian Walter Breen, Congress's "immediate infuriated response was to pass a law retiring the five-cent denomination, and another to forbid p 23:18:24 ortrayal of any living person on federal coins or currency." 23:18:32 That guy is the greatest troll in history X-D 23:20:26 I'll give that a chuckle and an imaginary slow clap and/or applause 23:25:57 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/04/one-in-four-americans-has-an-opinion-about-an-imaginary-debt-plan/ 23:31:39 PPP is pretty awesome. I like their twitter. 23:32:03 oh i didn't even notice it was them 23:32:04 Point-to-Point Protocol? 23:32:13 ppppolls 23:32:59 Public Policy Polling, I think. 23:33:06 haha, they re-tweeted someone asking "Could @ppppolls be any more blatantly biased?" 23:33:21 They were retweeting people ranting at them all throughout November. 23:33:26 didn't even respond 23:33:29 i like their style 23:33:32 All the ones about how Romney was totally going to win, etc 23:33:55 "(I don't remember getting a single phone call in response to that video, although the crazy voice mails did blend together at some point)" 23:34:05 "49% of GOP voters nationally say they think that ACORN stole the election for President Obama. We found that 52% of Republicans thought that ACORN stole the 2008 election for Obama, so this is a modest decline, but perhaps smaller than might have been expected given that ACORN doesn't exist anymore." 23:34:20 pffff 23:34:41 they also point out that "One reason that such a high percentage of Republicans are holding what could be seen as extreme views is that their numbers are declining" 23:35:00 everybody remotely sane is being driven out of the party 23:35:04 did they also record the percentage of people identifying as republican in that poll? 23:35:09 I remember it went down a lot lately 23:35:10 it's kind of wonderful as well 23:35:15 it is 23:35:20 it's a fun implosion to watch 23:35:25 don't know about that poll specifically but they say it went down from 37% to 32% at the election 23:36:52 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:37:54 -!- example has joined. 23:38:38 -!- example has left. 23:40:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:51:29 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:51:45 I hird elliott likes vault. 23:52:08 Death Metal Fat Cat Drum Cover http://youtu.be/yWcak9tZupc 23:52:19 yo elliott, i hird you like vault, so i put a vault in your vault 23:53:14 I see what you did there. 23:55:40 I don't. 23:55:54 elliott: Remember back when I did that "u mad" thing? 23:56:04 I remember that #esoteric was window 19 in irssi at the time. 23:56:06 Or maybe 18 23:56:07 Now it's 11 23:56:15 26 23:56:34 26 is terrible! 23:57:47 what is the significance of the number itself and the fact that you remember it? 2012-12-05: 00:00:03 elliott: Tell conal that. 00:00:08 what 00:00:13 olsner: No significance. 00:00:23 shachaf: ok, thanks for sharing 00:00:53 Remember back when I had #concatenative as window 10? 00:00:56 That was crazy. 00:01:43 I don't remember that 00:03:44 remember back before we got amnesia? 00:03:51 Seventeen. 00:04:27 that's numberwang 00:09:20 gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/0textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS 00:12:48 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:16:03 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:24:38 zzo38: I don't have Gopher. 00:24:41 Can I have an HTTP version? 00:26:05 -!- boily has joined. 00:26:07 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS 00:26:31 The gopher version is considered official, however. 00:27:10 By whom? 00:28:12 By myself. 00:28:28 But, both are the same file, so it doesn't matter. 00:29:11 oh, it's about pokemon 00:32:15 sweet, class 1 snow warning in my area (class 1 is lowest class and basically means "potentially annoying weather", but still) 00:32:53 zzo38: Would I be correct in assuming the Nintendo pmuids use National Pokedex numbers? 00:33:17 i.e. Bulbasaur is pmuid:1 00:33:30 Erm, pmuids:1 00:34:27 (and Mew of course pmuids:151) 00:34:45 pikhq_: Yes. 00:34:55 You are correct. 00:35:02 You may want to specify that. :) 00:36:04 OK. I fixed it. 00:39:21 <- no snow at all but annoyingly cold. for now. 00:40:02 <- chance of snow this weekend. 00:40:18 <- Saaaan Fraaaanciscoooooooo 00:40:25 Maybe my girlfriend will actually see a snowy Colorado. That'd be something. 00:40:38 Gregor: Well, if it snows there the apocalypse is real. 00:40:44 Hehehe 00:41:22 california gets apocalypses all the time, doesn't it? 00:41:59 apocalypses really only happen once though 00:43:35 SF got an inch of snow in Feb 2011 00:43:39 previous occasion was in 1976 00:43:55 i would believe that both 1976 and 2011 were apocalypse years 00:44:25 Wow, the last time the LA area got snow was 1962 00:53:36 Fiora: cuban missile crisis, obviously. 01:04:50 We got about 7 inches of snow last weekend. 01:08:21 They did predict up to 16, so I guess it wasn't that bad. 01:15:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:19:41 -!- Bike has joined. 01:30:20 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:37:43 -!- atehwa has joined. 02:12:57 -!- segorev has joined. 02:17:25 wow a friend just pointed out to me that clang can do things like this: https://gist.github.com/4211534 02:19:00 what's movabsq do? 02:20:52 load 64-bit immediate value 02:20:54 I think 02:21:23 btq... bit test @_@ 02:22:04 oh 02:22:17 > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 4294977024 "" 02:22:18 "100000000000000000010011000000000" 02:22:19 yes 02:22:27 \r is 0x0D, \n is 0x0A, \t is 0x09, ' ' is 0x20 02:22:30 so um... 02:22:51 > length $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 4294977024 "" 02:22:53 33 02:23:26 it copies a bit from the given register to the carry flag....? 02:23:51 OH. 02:24:03 It's doing a 64-way table lookup using a single register. 02:24:07 64-bit boolean table lookup 02:24:08 yes 02:24:09 omg 02:24:14 that is wonderful 02:24:24 I've never seen it done that way 02:24:38 I've done it before in code with something like... 02:25:06 #define 4BIT_ARRAY_LOOKUP(x) ((constant>>(4*(x)))&0xF) 02:25:22 but bit test saves an instruction if you only need one bit I think... 02:25:31 since you'd have to do shift + and 02:25:44 but gosh I've never seen a compiler automate that, wow 02:28:42 yeah 02:28:44 i am impressed 02:29:08 it must be pretty good for lexers in general 02:29:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:15 I'm guessing it's a similar optimization to the one where it combines if( i == 15 || i == 16 || i == 17 ) into if( i >= 15 && i <= 17 ) 02:32:22 I think gcc does that one 02:34:10 this seems rather more involved, to my ignorant eyes 02:34:39 I think it's just combining N checks, realizing they fall in a 64-bit range, and generating a bit array I think...? 02:34:45 I mean the asm is weird but 02:36:06 i'm not sure exactly how the optimization pass is implemented 02:36:10 would be interested to find out 02:37:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:37:44 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:37:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:39:03 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 02:39:20 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 02:39:20 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 02:40:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:42:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:43:54 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:44:51 -!- atehwa has joined. 02:45:40 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 03:09:12 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:09:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:09:25 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 03:09:25 -!- kallisti has joined. 03:13:27 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:14:06 -!- monqy has joined. 03:19:14 -!- atehwa has joined. 03:38:49 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:43:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:43:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:43:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:47:38 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:59:01 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/320 example 7 here is similar 04:00:25 Intel's compiler does some really neat things 04:00:30 One thing I saw it do once was something like this 04:00:52 there was some code where two pointers could alias, and if they actually did, the compiler would have to do something a lot worse 04:00:58 so it made a branch based on whether or not the pointers aliased 04:01:03 and compiled two copies of the code 04:02:19 ooh. I like the thing clang does in example 5, I've never seen gcc do that sort of thing 04:03:18 so clang is better at compiling gcc than gcc is, then :P 04:03:50 guess that coincidentally answers the question of whether gcc deals with ranges, though 04:04:24 Example 4!! oh god I actually remember that thing from the optimization manual 04:04:46 Intel optimized their instruction decoder in some weird way that makes handling length-changing prefixes insanely slow (like, 6 cycles per instruction slow) 04:05:00 oops 04:06:03 wow, intel did a crazy good job on example 3. 04:06:46 yeah iirc intel's chips have a few decoder units, and only one of them can handle the full x86 syntax with all its stupid bells and whistles 04:07:09 I think it's worse than that, it holds up the entire pipeline for something like 6 cycles per instruction 04:07:14 ouch 04:07:20 I think this is a new thing though 04:07:27 I think the old rule was "3 simple instructions, 1 complex instruction" per cycle 04:07:46 My guess is they have some kind of predecoder that guesses the lengths of instructions and if it's wrong they have to flush the whole thing and start over 04:08:26 and example 1. I wonder what the conditions for able-to-statically-evaluate-loops is for each compiler... and I just read that article backwards <_<; 04:09:54 http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2012-03/msg01932.html oooh here's the patch for gcc to fix that 16-bit immediate issue. 04:13:21 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:13:37 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/324 there are some followups here 04:13:39 another gcc patch 04:13:40 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 04:15:13 * Fiora throws example 4 at bike because division by multiplication taking advantage of limited input range 04:15:36 mruh, i'm totally out of my depth here, you know 04:15:46 but you were just talking about that the other day right :< 04:15:56 yeah but i'm still shit at it 04:16:03 you are nooooot 04:16:38 multiply and conquer 04:16:44 you are really smart okay >_< 04:18:54 where is shachaf 04:25:36 kmc: idk, I think he was on #haskell earlier though 04:25:54 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 04:26:04 Did coppro use the opportunity to beat me? 04:26:33 In case not: elliott monqy Fiora 04:27:44 I did not :( 04:27:54 thankies 04:32:22 hi kmc 04:32:33 Palo Alto 04:32:43 https://gist.github.com/4211534 04:33:35 i'm sorry you cannot be at palo alto, that's a mythical place from legends 04:33:51 it's a big tree 04:33:56 are you in the tree shachaf 04:34:41 I've never actually seen the tree, though I think it's relatively close to where I live? 04:34:44 Maybe I should go see it. 04:34:50 * shachaf looks. 04:35:06 you aren't confusing it with yggdrasil? 04:35:22 yggdrasil? watch out for the FOEs 04:37:27 Oh, it's using the char as a bit index into a 64-bit integer? 04:37:32 That's clever. 04:38:02 yes 04:38:49 "Efforts to restore the tree's health by the Southern Pacific Railroad, the City of Palo Alto and local citizens included progressive pruning off of the dying treetop, addition of soil and mulch at the tree’s base, removal of dead limbs, pesticide spraying and installation of a pipe up its trunk to bring water to the top of the tree.[6] Although the tree stands today at only 68% of its former stature, it enjoys greater health than nearly a century a 04:39:41 ago." 04:41:03 * shachaf wonders how general whatever it is that does that optimization is. 04:41:19 it'd be cool to see the code for it 04:42:49 there is some FUD about how Supertrain will murder El Palo Alto 04:42:52 NIMBY FUD 04:43:00 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:43:29 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 04:43:30 shachaf: i tried it on various subsets of ASCII 0..128 and it seemed to use the bitmask 04:43:56 Well, yes, I assume it's not *just* for the characters " \r\n\t" 04:44:17 but i think it won't branch to use two different bitmasks, one for 0..63 and one for 64..128 04:44:29 for a randomly selected subset of 0..255 it used a function pointer lookup table 04:44:33 that's 2 kB! 04:44:49 i would have thought a table of single bytes is better 04:44:55 a function pointer lookup table, wow 04:45:00 since you are just going to load that byte to %rax and then ret, anyway 04:45:02 that sounds a little bit overkill 04:45:34 i hope that ICC loads the entire table into a YMM register :D 04:46:15 I don't think there's a simd bit test though... 04:46:30 so you'd probably have to set a bit and shuffle it into place? 04:46:56 pslldq/psrldq are byte shifts only 04:48:31 kmc: Given that you can't even get a CPU with AVX2 these days... 04:49:27 could use AVX with float instructions, like doing a vpand and then a vcomiss or something... 04:49:31 but icky 04:50:17 Hmm, last time I looked at the AVX1 instructions they were very limited for what I wanted to do. 04:50:33 yeah, it's really hard to do anything useful integer-wise with them since it's float-only >_< 04:50:51 I've played some with AVX2 but it's not very satisfying because it's not like the emulator can tell me how fast it's going to run 04:51:20 obviously we need bit test functions for floats 04:53:57 What's with all the people with nicks that start with an uppercase letter? 04:54:25 I thought that was illegal. 04:54:50 You're illegal. 04:55:04 um.... it's... it's like a name, so... 04:56:14 Reading about some tools on BackTrack Linux 04:56:24 Would anyone ever actually fall for this http://www.question-defense.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2-22-2010-11-11-15-PM.png 04:56:39 are you serious? of course! 04:56:55 i would fall for that were i not paying attention 05:04:18 Is Kubuntu still shit? 05:05:45 Going by http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1114379-kubuntu-1210-review/ perhaps not 05:09:33 Is it unreasonable for me to want to use XenClient? 05:09:47 And thus run multiple OSes at the same time? 05:09:54 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:13:14 Sgeo|web: of course 05:16:32 This is the code responsible: https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm/blob/master/lib/CodeGen/SelectionDAG/SelectionDAGBuilder.cpp#L2349 05:18:11 geez, some arches don't even have shl? 05:18:48 so it does some tests to see if it's worthwhile... 05:19:42 that is extremely cool 05:24:17 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:24:36 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 05:24:36 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:26:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:32:22 hm i wonder which ones don't have it 05:32:29 shachaf: thanks for finding that code btw 05:32:41 hmm. 8086 only had shl and shr by 1 I think 05:32:55 Yeah, thanks, that was really cool to look at evenif I'm clueless about llvm internals 05:34:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:37:58 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:40:14 Unfortunately GHC doesn't generate code that LLVM recognizes for this trick. 05:45:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:45:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 05:45:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:49:04 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:49:24 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:26:37 -!- evincar has joined. 06:36:15 I'm reasonably sure x86 had N-shifts from the get-go. 06:36:49 "To reduce the maximum execution time, the 80386 does not allow shift counts greater than 31. If a shift count greater than 31 is attempted, only the bottom five bits of the shift count are used. (The 8086 uses all eight bits of the shift count.)" sort of suggests so too. 06:39:19 Z80 (and maybe 8080?) can only shift by one, though. 06:39:59 6502 only had shift by one iirc 06:40:47 so the real question is, is there an llvm backend for the NES. 06:45:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Go hdniotg). 06:46:05 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 06:59:38 -!- cherep_ has joined. 07:02:31 I should watch some Twilight Zone episodes someday 07:02:42 -!- segorev has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:02:43 Are all of the episodes considered classics, or just the ones I've heard of? 07:11:47 just the ones you've heard of 07:12:12 monsters/maple street, it's a good life, handful of others 07:12:17 I haven't heard of any. 07:14:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 07:14:53 Sgeo|web: A significant number of them are classics. 07:15:06 shachaf: Then you have been living under a damned rock. 07:15:19 Should I worry about spoilers? 07:15:30 I've heard of the Twilight Zone, just not any specific episodes. 07:15:34 You have probably already experienced the spoilers. 07:15:41 (Already spoiled It's a Good Life and Monsters/Maple Street, and know of that one with the glasses) 07:15:46 shachaf: Welp, you've got 5 seasons to binge. 07:15:58 "no thx" 07:17:03 nightmare at 20k feet 07:19:46 kmc: Is mosh vulnerable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closely_related_key attacks? 07:24:10 If you know anyone writing pokemon battle simulators and other pokemon related computer programming, or who makes up the new pokemons, you can notify them about PMUIDS. 07:24:34 Hmm, I know one person on IRC. 07:24:42 zzo38: Do you know about PMUIDS? 07:24:48 zzo38: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/0textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS 07:25:18 shachaf: Yes, I wrote it. But, I mean other people who use it; currently I do not use it (although in future I may use it) 07:26:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:26:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 07:26:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 07:28:07 If there is anything else wrong/unclear, you can notify me about that; I already made clearer about the official numbers 07:28:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:30:26 zzo38: It's possible that PMUIDS would be more popular if it preferred HTTP to Gopher. 07:31:16 Well, the same file can be accessed by HTTP and it is the same file either way so it doesn't matter. 07:32:24 The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today. 07:42:57 And now for something different (and unrelated): 07:43:31 A puzzle game I am designing: It is like a cross between Hero Hearts and Magic: the Gathering, with a little bit of chess and Dungeons&Dragons. 07:55:59 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:15:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:24:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:27:01 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:27:55 The topic will probably not help confused newcomers :-P 08:28:31 elliott: Fiora monqy: coppro failed again 08:28:54 Unless the time I came in here was after the second update, which I was unaware of 08:32:46 I was reading the ideas list, I really like the idea of the language that only has one big program 08:33:05 ("communist language") 08:33:23 Trying to figure out a way to enforce it at the minute 08:35:04 One big program as in, only one program of a certain complexity, or, only one program and that program is large/ 08:35:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:35:16 The latter 08:35:49 If you want to write code in this language it has to go into the same program that everybody else is writing 08:35:50 Some obvious but boring ways to do it come to mind 08:35:57 Oh, wait, huh? 08:36:36 The ideas page suggests having a public wiki as "the editor" for the source code 08:37:24 Did I explain it confusingly? 08:37:45 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:38:58 Can't think of a non-boring solution :-/ 08:41:43 Distributed Befunge: a shared Funge-Space into which all programs are written, every new writer gets a random storage offset and starting position; if collisions happen, problems ensue. 08:41:52 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:42:10 "deal with it" 08:42:25 Hmm 08:43:22 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:43:45 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:44:08 -!- greyooze has joined. 08:44:20 Hmph, where was I 08:44:37 Oh yeah, the shared space idea has merit, I like that 08:46:58 oh, idea: 08:47:01 How well do you think it would work to output the number of activated loads or total pressure of a noit o' mnain worb as a audio signal? 08:48:17 The interpreter for communistlang keeps track of the last code it was asked to run. The next code you supply it must be a purely additive diff from the previous 08:48:43 zzo38, you could assign different tones to the loads 08:49:47 greyooze: Yes you could do that too, I suppose, how well would that work? 08:50:25 I don't know, but it sounds like it would be fun to find out! 08:50:57 Perhaps total pressure controls the volume? 08:51:55 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:52:12 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 08:52:36 (A puddle of ooze springs up and assembles itself into a knight!) 08:53:55 There was a distributed something conversation here a few years back. (But that's all I remember of it.) 08:54:43 "Somebody used the word 'distributed' once. That's all I know." :o) 08:57:14 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 08:58:10 let's see, it needs to be easy to compose new code on top of the old 08:58:42 And I guess need to handle command-line args easily since doubtless lots of them will be used 08:59:04 "Swiss-army-knife" programs tend to end up that way! 08:59:20 Basically this is busybox writ large :-D 09:06:15 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:14:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:15:57 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:23:26 fizzie: what was that message splitting script you used 09:23:47 /script load splitlong.pl ? 09:23:50 the one that isn't autowrap. i know this because i'm using autowrap 09:25:26 splitlong.pl, yes. 09:27:23 Really, it's pretty much equivalent to autowrap, except it does the splitting on its own (instead of Text::Wrap) and has /set'able settings for the maximum length and what prefix/suffix to use for continuation lines, as well as the (sometimes misworking) automagical maximum length calculation. 09:30:09 monqy: /join #haskell-lens 09:30:15 You can learn lens! 09:30:26 :' 09:30:30 ': 09:30:32 does that really work ? 09:31:02 (i decided to use autowrap because i didn't want to /set maximum length and i didn't want the misworking) 09:31:13 the does that really work ? was directed at lens 09:31:41 fizzie: Does Text::Wrap have any exciting edgecases? 09:32:08 monqy: lens doesn't work at all 09:32:11 "sorry" 09:34:05 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:35:35 elliott: I don't think Text::Wrap does anything particularly clever, or how well it handles edge cases. splitlong's custom splitting is pretty ad-hoc, it just splits at the rightmost " " character unless that would give a line shorter than maxlen/10+4 character, in which case it just splits at maxlen even in mid-word. 09:36:24 fizzie: Can't you make a perfect version? 09:36:38 I don't really know what else I'd need. 09:36:54 Also, autowrap seems to have a "autowrap: unable to split long line. sent as-is" special case, but I don't know if that ever fires. 09:37:12 It happens if Text::Wrap returns a line longer than what has been requested. 09:38:31 According to the documentation, that never happens. 09:40:56 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:46:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:49:36 Are there any emulators that faithfully emulate a CPU such that, it can emulate a Pentium well enough to be vulnerable to f00f? 09:50:38 I think f00f was a bug because the Pentium didn't successfully emulate a Pentium 09:51:00 -!- nooga has joined. 09:56:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:14:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:31:54 Hi Phantom_Hoover did you see the updates? 10:31:59 yes 11:06:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:06:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 11:06:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:07:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:32:33 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:39:22 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 11:48:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:49:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 11:49:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:50:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:08:02 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:09:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:12:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:13:55 fizzie: Which script should I use. :( 12:14:58 I used splitlong. 12:15:22 /script load splitlong.pl 12:15:29 "it just works" elliott!! 12:15:50 It doesn't work if you don't have it! 12:16:00 But it comes with it. 12:16:10 It does? 12:16:15 Well, it did for me! 12:16:24 I hear it doesn't work if you have a cloak. 12:16:29 I guess elliott doesn't use Debian. 12:16:41 Okay, it appears to on Arch at least. 12:16:42 $ dpkg-query -L irssi | grep -i split 12:16:42 /usr/share/irssi/scripts/splitlong.pl 12:16:45 Well, I'll be. 12:16:48 solidity uses Debian. 12:16:54 Anyway I hear it doesn't work if you have a cloak. 12:16:59 Also its splitting sounds ad-hoc! Is Text::Wrap ad hoc? 12:17:20 It's not any better, if that's what you mean. 12:17:47 It might not have the same per-ten-plus-four rule, but that's about it. 12:18:03 It's still "split at spaces, or if there are no spaces, just split at maximum width". 12:18:36 The Arch package only includes the .tar.bz2 from irssi.org so presumably it does come with it. 12:20:16 Perhaps you should use schlong.irc. It's the ircII script for a trüe warrior. 12:20:25 http://packetstorm.foofus.com/irc/scripts/schlong.irc there's one version right there. 12:21:02 Just look at that stuff. 12:21:20 (You did ask a generic question about "which script".) 12:23:44 who else still uses ircII? 12:24:46 Just the /mircwar commands are the greatest. "/cmosbomb - CMOS bomb. Probably the worst of them all, this bomb overwrites the CMOS of the victim's PC and replaces it with absolute crap. This often causes dataloss, hardware configuration loss, permanent BIOS damage, permanent mouse damage, and other problems." (It tries to DCC-send some bad heavy-metal poetry with the file name CLOCK$.) 12:24:51 fizzie: I think this might be the most 90s file on the internet. 12:25:06 I love it 12:25:36 "coal shoved into my skull - the time of beasts - a time to raise the mind plants seeds of time defined within my loathsome eye - the is black of rage - red." 12:25:40 That's what it sends. 12:25:46 does it include winnuke? 12:25:48 (I abbreviated it a bit.) 12:26:14 alias netcum { 12:26:14 if ([$0]) { 12:26:14 eval msg $0 $ctcpstring 12:26:14 }{ 12:26:14 secho Usage: /NETCUM . Attempts to crash a netcom user. 12:26:16 }} 12:26:27 :P 12:26:31 nortti: Well, it uses an external $nuke_pgm. 12:26:51 ah 12:27:22 back when ircII was actually used... 12:27:49 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 12:27:49 -!- soundnfury has quit (Excess Flood). 12:27:53 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :USERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFOUSERINFO 12:27:57 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 12:27:57 I don't see an +++ATH0 ping, but it could just have been obfuscamated. 12:28:01 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :VERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERS 12:28:05 IONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSIONVERSION 12:28:08 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 12:28:12 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :SEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSEDSED 12:28:12 That was also very a popular thing to do those days. 12:28:16 /quote PRIVMSG $0 :PINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPING 12:28:20 truly great functionality 12:28:24 if ([$poopy]==[zmodem]) 12:28:32 (You can do it with ping -p too.) 12:28:34 timer 3 //^topic #^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DiE mIRC BiTCH - schlOng 12:28:41 christ 12:28:56 that messed uo my curses so bad 12:28:59 "Usage: /VAXKILL . Works on VAX 1.7.3 users." wow 12:29:27 ^assign BOOMSTR ECHO ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ BooM We ArE RoXiN jo0 AsS ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ 12:29:33 ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ 12:29:39 this is art 12:29:41 elliott: The "vax killer" is also /ctcp $0 action says hello. 12:29:52 secho Neato yet sometimes annoying jumping status logo is now $schroll\. 12:30:17 I should check if my schlong version is newer or later. I think it had some admonishments at top about how it is strictly forbidden to distribute it to "lamers". 12:30:22 (If I can still find it.) 12:30:37 fizzie: this script is basically what I imagine EFNet to still be like 12:31:25 There are also all those things targeted to users of different scripts. 12:33:02 See the eval ^if's at the very end; those are to detect if you've loaded an inferior script before loading schlong; it quits if that has happened. 12:33:34 I can't find schlong.irc. :/ 12:33:42 Which might be sensible given the invasive nature of these kinds of scripts? 12:33:54 (Not that that's necessarily the reason.) 12:35:13 I think I've seen that /topicflood live. 12:35:39 It updates the topic on every on-channel message/notice, to that message's contents. 12:35:50 I'm not sure what the point of it is. 12:36:49 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:38:15 Deewiant: Well, not since "quit" here means "actually /quit IRC with an author-disparaging message". 12:38:32 Ah, then not. 12:38:55 There are nine pages of "hacking scripts" in this /crahd/♣ Hacking ♣/cd5hack/Hacking/irc/scripts/ folder of this weird Polish file-sharing site. 12:39:12 -!- elliott has set topic: ♣ Hacking ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 12:40:27 Also in the comments of "furricane"'s "Whiskerino 2009" profile someone is proud of "hav[ing] my nickname mentioned in the schlong.irc (war) script". 12:41:38 I don't know if EFnet is still like this. 12:41:42 I would kind of guess no. 12:41:53 The one channel I'm on isn't. 12:42:03 But maybe the sample size is too small. 12:43:51 elliott: If you get tired of schlong.irc, you can continue by inspecting all the scripts of ftp://igor.onlinedirect.bg/packetstorm/irc/scripts/ -- though judging from the file size, schlong seems to be the biggest thing. 12:44:10 (Maybe it's also the most famous, given that even I had heard of it?) 12:44:31 Some of those are gzipped, and also tarballs. 12:44:42 Or zipped. 12:46:40 That's true. 12:47:49 The biggest one of those, osbx1c.tgz, is 295 K when unpacked. Although the tarball is bigger; GNU tar complains about "lone zero block at 940". 12:49:34 It seems very professionally done. 12:49:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:49:39 There's a README.FIRST and all. 12:50:55 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 12:51:17 940 * 512 is the size of the tarball, so I guess there's just a nowadays-improper ending. 12:51:17 README.SECOND 12:51:59 I guess tarballs just pad small files; I didn't know that. 12:53:01 I wrote a quine 12:53:15 Although, does it count as a quine if it doesn't print unless you put it on the repl? 12:53:48 If there's a non-repl possibility and it's not a quine there, it counts as a repl-only quine. 12:54:13 ((fn [s] (list s (list (quote quote) s))) (quote (fn [s] (list s (list (quote quote) s))))) 12:54:33 I think I can safely say I learned how typical quines work, I think 12:56:26 ((lambda (x) (list x (list quote x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list quote x))))) 12:56:59 Oh, I guess (quote quote) is actually what you want there. I seem to recall a more elegant phrasing... 13:00:10 With a language with good semiquotes I'd imagine it could be written a lot more cleanly 13:09:54 (let ((p '(lambda (q) `(let ((p ',q)) ((eval p) p))))) ((eval p) p)) ; I made this just now, I suppose it's also kinda typical. 13:12:28 What's a good example of an atypical quine? 13:12:50 Maybe something in an esoteric language where the typical quine patterns don't work as well? 13:18:23 ^ul (aS(:^)S):^ 13:18:23 (aS(:^)S):^ 13:18:31 Any quine discussion needs a typical Underload quiine. 13:18:48 ^ul (:aSS):aSS 13:18:48 (:aSS):aSS 13:19:00 I try to avoid the ass. 13:19:13 (:^) 13:35:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:37:39 ";'D2/';abc+y1{2u$$u'D2/>:#,_@"; 13:39:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:41:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:42:47 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:45:47 repl-only quine is best quine 13:46:33 > ap(++)show"ap(++)show" 13:46:35 "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\"" 13:52:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:52:55 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:05:08 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:05:42 ";'D2/';abc+y2+1{u'D2/>:#,_@"; a bit nicer and shorter 14:07:22 5 14:07:48 Deewiant: (What language?) 14:07:50 Oh, Funge. 14:07:51 98? 14:08:53 With those semicolons, must be. 14:11:22 bc+y for the stack size, though... I don't think I've used y once. 14:13:22 And that whole 1{u deal; man, Deewiant's code is so 98y. 14:19:55 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 14:22:03 I couldn't think of a 93 pg-less way of reversing the stack. :-P 14:23:37 Or walking the (almost) whole program from east to west inside " nicely. 14:24:09 So I figured I'd smite y'all with some proper 98. 14:25:33 I'm smotten. 14:27:39 It's Befunge-98 specifically, though, since it uses 2 instead of the appropriate y spell. 14:27:54 I was lazy there. 14:29:53 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:30:08 -!- ogrom has left. 14:36:19 Deewiant: <> #"....." ? 14:39:48 That's decent. It misses 4 chars but that's probably as good as it gets. 14:41:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:43:20 r #"...." if you want to dip very shallowly into the 98 pool. 14:44:05 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:45:13 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:45:17 Or ? #"...." which would give you a 93-quine that works only if you're lucky. 14:46:12 r brings it down to 3, but up to 98 again. 14:50:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:51:25 Oh, you mentioned r already. Sorry, I'm on my phone and thus managed to miss it. 14:54:05 Huh, I got an email from someone telling me not to be mean about BF derivatives. 14:56:27 but you can be mean about second derivatives 14:56:32 BF Hessians 15:03:32 Just don't be mean about a BF Jacobian. 15:06:07 Phantom_Hoover: was it urban muller 15:06:10 No. 15:06:21 How about some other urban miller? 15:06:42 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 15:07:32 Although they do seem to think my hate of BF derivatives comes from a hatred of Brainfuck. 15:07:45 "There's an esolang better than BF, it's called INTERCAL. If we all made INTERCAL derivatives, would you hate us?" 15:10:01 It almost sounds like they were trying to pull the Words on you. 15:10:22 ("Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?" "Alien, you have spoken the Words, and you have spoken them rightly. We will tell you our reasons why we enslave all other sentient life.") 15:10:23 oh no 15:10:35 hmm 15:10:41 after i explain can i kill them 15:10:42 It's a Star Control 2 thing. 15:10:50 Yes, it would be keeping in character. 15:10:50 i know that! 15:11:07 Just making sure. 15:11:18 also don't the kohr-ah say something different 15:12:07 "THE WORDS!... the Words... the words alien, you have spoken the Words. You have spoken them rightly. We will explain to you about the Dnyarri our slavemasters the Taalo, our only friends... whom we exterminated and our reasons why we cleanse the galaxy of all other sentient life." 15:12:33 They'd kind of have to say something at least slightly different, seeing that they're not in the enslavement business. 15:13:41 leaning more towards the kohr-ah methodology here 15:14:03 Yes, you certainly don't want any BF-derivative-liking slaves. 15:16:02 You can explain your dislike of BF derivatives to them better, and then close with: "You have heard our words, and perhaps now you understand us a bit better. But now, it is time for us to cleanse you." 15:16:06 they'd only be good for making bf derivatives 15:16:07 (And then kill them.) 15:20:33 @tell atriq Oi, your my blog is getting me hatemail. 15:20:34 Consider it noted. 15:21:02 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:34:59 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:48:31 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 16:20:15 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:24:23 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 16:32:25 Phantom_Hoover: well apparently you've done your job wrong 16:32:33 how 16:32:49 by having 'them' believe it's brainfuck your hate 16:33:27 i'm not trying to educate them, just instill fear 16:33:54 oh 16:33:58 in that case, carry on 16:34:11 but you know what they say 16:34:20 i don't care what they say! 16:34:27 you can't get a whole galaxy's faith through fear 16:34:38 you have to give them a choice! 16:35:21 well that's what they tried to explain to the Ori but so far their "adore us or die" strategy has been working pretty well 16:36:39 btw do you brainbrick underload-derivative authors as well? 16:37:05 how many underload derivatives are there 16:39:13 well Chris Pressey just made one 16:39:35 Negative three 16:40:58 -!- Bike has joined. 16:45:45 Arc_Koen, is it an instruction substitution or does it add like 2 new instructions for forking or something 16:46:08 weeeeeeell I'm not familiar with underload 16:46:39 but from what I understand, it substitutes sequences of three bits for underload instructions 16:49:19 wh 16:49:22 cpressey 16:49:23 no 17:03:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:03:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:03:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:06:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:10:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:40:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:52:15 -!- augur has joined. 17:54:14 Heeeey, who nixed my wonderful log URL :( 17:59:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:03:04 the nixer 18:07:38 -!- shurup has joined. 18:10:08 -!- Gregor has set topic: ♣ Hacking ♣ http://5z8.info/turkeyporn_o4u1vn_molotovcocktail#gobblegobble. 18:11:32 -!- aloril has joined. 18:14:02 -!- shurup has quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)). 18:22:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:27:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:27:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:27:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:30:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:34:13 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:54:02 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 18:56:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:00:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:05:17 -!- carado has joined. 19:09:33 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 19:18:30 -!- jfischoff has joined. 19:21:56 Please example of Expload 19:34:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:52:08 -!- monqy has joined. 19:55:28 -!- rapido has joined. 20:02:54 Do you know that it is possible to rewrite a constant in Csound? 20:06:29 Csound: 1300 opcodes? 20:07:27 -!- MiJyn has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 20:09:37 rapido: More than that, I think. 20:10:21 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:10:33 Especially since I have added some, too. 20:11:25 ah, opcodes that are run by a virtual machine? 20:12:49 Yes, like that. 20:13:36 -!- augur has joined. 20:13:40 how does the community decide that a new opcode should be part of the vm? 20:14:20 They are written in plugins. 20:16:28 what is the execution model: data flow? 20:17:09 There is three execution models: score, i-rate, and k-rate. 20:18:50 The score tells it what instrument to play, and then the i-rated opcodes run, and then it runs in the k-rated loops during performance. 20:19:44 of course the lag must be minimal 20:20:10 If it is used with real-time then, yes it must be. But, it can be operated without real-time, too. 20:21:12 so what's interesting about Csound - programming language wise? 20:21:41 is it esoteric ? 20:22:14 -!- aloril has joined. 20:23:07 If I implement a plugin for Proce esolang, then I guess so. 20:24:51 … reading on proce 20:25:39 But I may also implement plugin for noit o' mnain worb. 20:26:32 this plugin stuff feels like cheating! 20:27:54 Many things can also be implemented using Csound itself, although it the program is large it can make it very slow. 20:30:23 does Csound make sure that plugins are well behaved? 20:30:46 (guess not if you allow proce as a plugin) 20:37:25 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 20:38:35 -!- rapido has joined. 20:39:41 -!- rapido has quit (Client Quit). 20:47:13 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:50:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:54:49 ugh 20:54:57 are me and Sgeo actually getting into a war about this? 20:55:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:56:07 War about what? 20:57:48 homestuck updates 20:58:20 ? 20:59:32 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:59:49 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 21:12:21 `addquote The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today. 21:12:24 864) The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today. 21:18:04 Is it more popular now than it was then? 21:18:24 well i think it's still today. 21:18:31 so a bit early to ask. 21:21:51 "coal shoved into my skull - the time of beasts - a time to raise the mind plants seeds of time defined within my loathsome eye - the is black of rage - red." 21:21:55 dog. owner. 21:22:12 (what do you mean it was a quote) 21:24:20 did elliott actually crash soundnfury's irc client in the logs. 21:24:36 i think there might be rules against that. or something. 21:27:08 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:27:35 alternatively, maybe soundnfury actually tried that command elliott pasted, in which case i guess it's karma. 21:27:56 (what do you mean, it may have been coincidence? no such thing!) 21:28:02 Is it bad I'm parsing the topic in terms of Homestuck shipping? 21:28:22 don't ask me, i'm not into homestuck 21:28:27 -!- oklofok has joined. 21:28:45 Taneb: that was actually my first instinct too <_<; 21:30:47 :/ 21:30:55 I don't think you ever followed me back on Tumblr? 21:33:55 What's a good example of an atypical quine? 21:34:02 my /// one, of course. 21:34:29 underload just makes it _too_ easy. 21:35:01 > ap(++)show"ap(++)show" 21:36:11 > (++)<*>show"(++)<*>show" 21:36:13 Couldn't match expected type `b0 -> b0' 21:36:13 with actual type `GHC.... 21:36:32 > ap(++)show"ap(++)show" 21:36:34 "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\"" 21:36:46 nice 21:37:03 > var$ap(++)show"var$ap(++)show" 21:37:04 var$ap(++)show"var$ap(++)show" 21:37:58 > var$ap(++)show"> var$ap(++)show" 21:37:59 > var$ap(++)show"> var$ap(++)show" 21:38:35 ?where ?where 21:38:35 ?where ?where 21:41:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:45:37 <> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@" that there Befunge-93 21:46:24 !befunge <> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@" 21:46:26 ​<> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@" 21:49:09 I prefer the -98 version :-P 21:54:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:55:21 ";'D2/';a7y5*d+y7y+1{u'D2/>:#,_@"; dimension-generic now. 22:01:17 yyy. 22:02:02 The third y saves a character in total. 22:02:41 Am I the only one who sees https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Snaps/20121205-vr-mainos.png as a... sort-of inappropriate ad? 22:03:08 (The alternative is : after the first y and y+1- instead of y7y+) 22:03:17 fizzie: I don't know that language. 22:03:30 zzo38: I think he meant the picture. 22:03:39 zzo38: It's Finnish; but I just meant the image, right. 22:04:01 fizzie: I see your point but I'm not sure I would've noticed if you hadn't mentioned it, so it's not that bad IMO. 22:04:54 I made a Csound plugin to interpret noit o' mnain worb. I added two extensions, being ; for comments and ? for a negative load. 22:04:58 Deewiant: I suppose it's more me than the ad, then. 22:05:14 Yup. 22:05:44 Now you can list that implementation if you want to. 22:11:52 today starring... 22:14:16 Getaway in Finland http://youtu.be/VrZ9_H1qXxg 22:15:38 aload, apressure, abobules worb Sfilename, xfreq, xsource, xsink, [imaxpressure], [iexponent], [iskip] 22:24:48 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:26:35 Any highlights? That's like half an hour. 22:32:39 The guy uses the turn signals. :-D 22:33:05 Nothing spectacular at least up to 33:44, just a standard chase. 22:34:07 The roads seem to be getting smaller and smaller, judging from the thumbnails. 22:39:12 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:40:46 Aw, the guy in the back seemed so disappointed for the last second or so. 22:42:00 36:57 (on radio) “Can you give your whereabouts?” “I wish I knew.” The Finnish police run a professional operation. 22:46:13 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:49:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:04:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:13:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:24:37 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:25:45 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:34:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 23:42:26 -!- megalinux has joined. 23:42:53 -!- d70 has joined. 23:46:26 hello i'm from brazil you's peak portuguese ? 23:48:38 not me, i don't know if anyone else here does 23:49:33 peak please :( 23:49:48 i don't know portuguese 23:50:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 23:51:00 ok :D i'm orrible en inglish :( 23:52:47 argh i tried /list *-pt but it seems to list all channels :( 23:52:54 -!- megalinux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:04 -!- d70 has left ("Leaving"). 2012-12-06: 00:07:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:31:15 -!- cuwauwi has joined. 00:32:15 another brazilian? 00:34:26 oerjan: Racist! 00:34:30 `welcome cuwauwi 00:34:35 cuwauwi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:34:51 Gregor: Hattist! 00:37:47 oerjan: Istist! 00:39:10 Antidisestablishmentarianist! 00:41:16 *gasp* 00:41:41 you don't _have_ to stop breathing while reading the word, you know 00:42:20 But the Anglican church /must/ be separated from the crown! 00:43:56 the Queen will _not_ be amused. 00:45:33 -!- glogbackup has joined. 00:46:02 see, you've confused the bots again! 00:50:17 it's a little known fact that the anglican church is actually one of the central structural components of the crown 00:50:45 you can't separate it, all the jewels will fall of and it would flop around like a blancmange 00:51:07 @wm blancmange 00:51:08 *** "blancmange" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 00:51:08 blancmange 00:51:08 n 1: sweet almond-flavored milk pudding thickened with gelatin 00:51:08 or cornstarch; usually molded 00:51:19 OKAY 00:51:25 honestly oerjan surely you've heard of the blancmange curve 00:52:03 indeed i have. just now in fact 00:52:27 worst mathematician? 00:53:50 well it does look similar to some stuff (weierstrass curve?) 00:56:39 ooh that triangle sum looks _very_ familiar. i think it was the very curve i was trying to convince someone else was nowhere differentiable in my first university year or so 01:00:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:00:34 i was a better mathematician than him, but he was a better programmer/hacker 01:01:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:03:19 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 01:03:54 -!- monqy has joined. 01:08:44 -!- gasoline has joined. 01:08:53 hi peeps 01:09:00 `welcome gasoline 01:09:03 gasoline: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:09:12 (everyone be careful with the matches) 01:09:13 oerjan, (it occurs to me that it's only obvious that the blancmange is non-differentiable on a countable subset of [0,1]) 01:09:16 no thanks HackEgo 01:09:44 wow you peeps got bizar bots 01:10:08 the reason for HackEgo and EgoBot both existing is admittedly pretty confusing 01:10:15 i'm still not sure i understand 01:10:20 aha 01:10:35 ^echo I'm bizarre too! 01:10:35 I'm bizarre too! I'm bizarre too! 01:10:44 Phantom_Hoover: a-ha 01:10:50 yes but fungot is deliberately bizarre 01:10:51 Phantom_Hoover: definition if universe and if/ what is responsible for a unix box somewhere 01:11:25 does the kosmos orignate from order or disorder / chaos 01:11:43 i accept plausible 01:12:08 is gasoline a markov bot too 01:12:08 Does it both? 01:12:23 how ? 01:12:35 make it plausible and i agree 01:12:35 my vote: yes 01:12:56 Phantom_Hoover: yeah i think my argument may have been a bit non-rigorous 01:13:38 oerjan, i guess you can go from "nondifferentiable in a dense subset" to "nowhere differentiable" pretty quickly with the actual definitions 01:13:57 Phantom_Hoover: i'm not going to be on that either way 01:13:59 *bet 01:14:05 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 01:14:45 ^ul ((I am programmable too! )S:^):^ 01:14:45 I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I am programmable too! I ...too much output! 01:14:53 fungot 01:14:54 shachaf: btw i still don't get it just because i use it for screen??? 01:15:10 yes, fungot. just because you use it for screen 01:15:11 shachaf: but eventually, you start depending on eval order, you can do 01:15:58 markov chains sure are chatty folk, wouldn't you agree, fungot 01:15:59 Bike: rather than after trying rewind on it purely from the perspective of someone who has a javascript-based search form he tries to trick humans into making losing bargains, just like in doom 01:16:10 wow, what 01:16:20 * oerjan is reminded of Gregor's (?) horrible tome of eval puns 01:16:25 ^style 01:16:25 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:16:38 ^style iwcs 01:16:39 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 01:16:56 don't think i've seen fungot with this style 01:16:57 Phantom_Hoover: oh, of the house, so he wasn't joking i don't bolivia! something that might help us get a healer 01:17:17 i don't bolivia either 01:17:31 fungot, i think i prefer the homestuck 01:17:31 Phantom_Hoover: but, but... that's not a fish. it's a lump of rock! we didn't give any thought the guys at nasa has fast-tracked a prototype deep has held out well, a funny thing happened on a real. how come they are, since i heard the news from the east of paris. made of plaster 01:17:33 is it in anyones intentions to make sense ? 01:17:40 gasoline: rarely 01:17:41 no 01:17:51 `WELCOME gasoline 01:17:54 GASOLINE: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 01:17:56 it's just a babble pot written in befunge 01:18:00 hi shachaf 01:18:00 ^source 01:18:00 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 01:18:20 gotcha HackEgo 01:18:31 `? shachaf 01:18:34 shachaf ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:18:39 wat 01:18:42 huh 01:18:43 `? shachaf 01:18:43 `? shachaf 01:18:45 shachaf sprø som selleri 01:18:58 `? oerjan 01:19:01 now what 01:19:01 oerjan ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:19:05 `? oerjan 01:19:07 `? oerjan 01:19:10 Phantom_Hoover: final space problem 01:19:10 oerjan ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:19:10 shachaf sprø som selleri 01:19:23 oerjan, wait what 01:19:33 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. 01:19:48 Phantom_Hoover: if you tab complete a nick it gives a final space. `? distinguishes that from without. 01:20:07 ahhhh 01:20:20 Hey, that's not a lie 01:20:28 `? FireFly 01:20:30 what isn't? 01:20:31 FireFly? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:20:36 Your line 01:21:00 is this seriously a whole irc bot written in befunge 01:21:05 yes 01:21:14 this was compiled from something else 01:21:15 right 01:21:18 tell me it was 01:21:25 That'd be boring 01:21:40 Fungot is written in Befunge? 01:21:50 shachaf didn't know? 01:21:58 i refuse to believe a human wrote this 01:22:00 Bike, not as far as i know, and it doesn't look like it is 01:22:03 I thought that was common knowledge? 01:22:04 oerjan: Nope. 01:22:11 No one ever told me! 01:22:13 fizzie: Bike refuses to believe you are human 01:22:20 i mean there are comments and everything 01:22:21 i'm sorry fizzie, i have principles 01:22:37 fizzie just passed the anti-Turing test? 01:22:51 hm, or failed perhaps 01:22:54 > "We have lambdabot here too!" 01:22:55 "We have lambdabot here too!" 01:22:58 -!- cherep_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:23:11 lambdabot is haskell, right 01:23:26 yes 01:23:44 thank you. 01:24:20 Bike: That's not the proper way to address lambdabot. 01:24:23 @thank you 01:24:23 Maybe you meant: thank you thanks 01:24:25 Hmm. 01:24:26 @thx 01:24:27 you are welcome 01:24:47 @thanks 01:24:48 you are welcome 01:24:53 HackEgo and EgoBot are both sandboxed linux environment thingies 01:25:07 Can I run commands as root on HackEgo? 01:25:08 oonbotti: you are here too! 01:25:09 oerjan: Why do you think I am here too!? 01:25:21 shachaf: you can _try_... 01:25:27 `help 01:25:29 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:25:31 oonbotti: you are a bot 01:25:34 FireFly: Perhaps you would like me to be a bot. 01:25:39 `? HackEgo 01:25:41 @thanks, lambdabot 01:25:42 you are welcome 01:25:42 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 01:26:01 `help 01:26:03 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:26:04 `help 01:26:06 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 01:26:24 speaking of turing tests, quick poll, raise your hand if you're actually an ELIZA script 01:26:58 An ELIZA script would turn that into a question 01:27:03 So no, I am not 01:27:07 * oerjan raises hand 01:27:15 How would you feel about actually being an ELIZA script? 01:27:19 ha, you fail the eliza test oerjan 01:27:20 `echo $PWD 01:27:22 * shachaf is SHRDLU 01:27:22 ​$PWD 01:27:27 `run echo $PWD 01:27:28 `run echo $PWD 01:27:30 ​/hackenv 01:27:36 Stop being me, shachaf 01:27:39 `run id -a 01:27:42 uid=5000 gid=227965 01:27:42 shachaf, what is the color of the pyramid on the green block 01:27:48 fiora, noted 01:27:51 ​/hackenv 01:27:54 Gregor: Can we have root access to HackEgo? 01:28:01 It's sandboxed, right? 01:28:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:28:55 `run ls | xargs 01:28:58 bin canary foo karma lib paste quotes share wisdom zalgo.hs 01:29:23 | xargs? 01:29:29 Is that the same thing as echo $(ls)? 01:29:40 Yeah, I guess 01:29:52 i think xargs is meant to be a safe version that deals with quotation and stuff 01:30:00 since shell is kind of. chaotic 01:30:33 Pft. 01:30:38 i've been using | fmt -w500 or thereabouts for HackEgo 01:30:58 | xargs is just a lazy way to get everything on one line 01:31:14 well, xargs has proper uses too 01:31:14 `ls 01:31:17 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 01:31:22 Ah, neat 01:31:47 `run echo $PATH 01:31:50 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 01:32:52 `run ghc -e 'print "Broken I think"' 01:32:56 ghc: can't find a package database at /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 01:33:24 `ls bin 01:33:26 ​? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping 01:36:31 kmc: Did you know that? 01:36:57 know what? 01:37:04 xargs with no args? 01:37:15 that's convenient 01:38:31 kmc: fungot is written in Befunge. 01:38:32 shachaf: oh, there's a sign, maybe. it's the only country with a specific law against walking up the path! wranglin' giant reptiles. in the background 01:40:21 oh 01:40:24 i didn't know that either 01:40:28 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 01:40:29 shachaf: sorry, i don't know what they're up here while dad and i know, the guy who does the opposite of normal software engineering we've seen you before in cyberspace. this patch of light a star. they're too uncouth point, followed by the gerund if necessary, bein' dead on flimsy premise. the characters exchanged jokes about it amidst unresolved sexual tension. 01:41:46 whoever wrote fungot is insane. funges are hard. 01:41:46 SingingBoyo: are you sure the technology! come about fer what purpose, ye scurvy creature! it's killed kyros and lambert, a travelling merchant, practised with bow, can i make new laws on the books, is now carting around two wannabe scientists are still growing! they look, let me pick something of it, fast, highly technological terror you've constructed. the ability to be captured a spanish galleon! arrr!! 01:41:48 impressive 01:42:45 "fast, highly technological terror you've constructed" 01:43:20 ^style 01:43:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs* jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:43:22 shachaf: lens/travis-cabal-apt-install uses xargs for that. 01:43:50 fungot: That's not the first time f​ungot has said that. 01:43:50 shachaf: you! shall not! parse! enjoying the easy life at the expense of the artwork, and if the thermal exhaust port gets hit... i should join the dark side, the snakes, and 9... 01:44:03 Er, FireFly: 01:44:14 Oh, okay 01:45:23 ^style youtube 01:45:23 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 01:45:30 fungot: speak your mind 01:45:30 FireFly: avril lavigne could be wrong. this website is pretty good for about 10 seconds and then i jizz in my pants. great job 01:45:38 Oh god. 01:45:54 Firefly: that's what you get for going with youtube 01:46:19 f​ungot 01:46:34 befungot 01:46:34 shachaf: what/ why are you, stop looking for the movie. 01:53:05 -!- gasoline has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:10:14 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 02:10:57 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 02:13:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:40:59 fungot! 02:41:00 kmc: haha jt shaking his head. and bullet time? 02:41:15 fungot! fun..got! 02:41:16 kmc: nothing to do some break, but computers have no theory, you really that hard for you. he's a pretend christian. his brother is a fake? 02:44:59 fungot: great job 02:44:59 kmc: i guess, possibly to the person who feels sick after watching this kind of " mental instability". too much, the docks, the history channel on modern marvels, they always bring him back as a result of very poor research. 02:46:03 ^style iwcs 02:46:03 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 02:46:11 ^style lovecraft 02:46:12 Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) 02:46:16 fungot: ! 02:46:16 kmc: published fnord 1936 in astounding stories, vol. 13, p. fnord. prop... fnord... 02:47:01 in college i used to collect old CRT monitors and have them in my room displaying markov chain output in that xscreensaver 'phosphor' mode, 24/7 02:47:29 i had one that was trained on the holy books of the world's religions 02:47:41 and another that was trained on the wikipedia talk pages regarding the world's religions 02:48:05 so the first one would proselytize continuously and the second one would conduct flamewars with itself 02:49:02 this sounds like a meditation ritual 03:12:03 hi kmc 03:12:46 spj wants YOU for G.H.C. army 03:13:59 -!- FreeFull has quit. 03:21:59 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 03:22:40 -!- Sgeo|web has changed nick to Sgeo. 03:27:58 o rly 03:28:44 http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2012-December/105041.html 03:29:43 :( why does CentOS include an obsolete Mercurial? 03:30:40 CentOS has exactly the same packages as the corresponding RHEL version 03:30:45 if you want newer stuff you should add EPEL 03:36:50 Maybe I could just compile and use Mercurial from source? 03:37:11 Using obsolete is not an option -- I sort of copied all the stuff over from one machine to another 03:39:23 why are you using centos? 03:40:20 Because not my choice, although I do have root access 03:42:55 well 03:43:08 ok 03:43:43 If you have root access, you have a choice. 03:48:16 How long does it take for a caffeine addiction to develop? 03:48:32 About a week. 03:48:43 I had one coffe on Monday and one on Tuesday, now I'm looking forward to having coffee on Thursday 03:49:11 When do you drink your coffee? 03:49:21 Around 11am 03:50:20 1100 drink coffee everyday 03:54:39 -!- jfischoff has quit (Quit: jfischoff). 04:05:14 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:19:32 -!- jfischoff has joined. 04:31:24 -!- jfischoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:48:44 more like 1100 drink a 7-Eleven Double Gulp everyday 04:52:59 Wouldn't doing that at 0711 make more sense? 04:53:26 no because i am not awake then 05:00:12 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:17:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:20:00 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:23:53 -!- heroux has joined. 05:27:24 A chess variant: The king is allowed to make a long move once per game. 05:28:00 (Castling does not count as this long move.) 05:43:53 -!- variable has joined. 06:12:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:41:16 -!- Bike has joined. 07:19:17 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 07:29:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:31:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:32:52 -!- Bike has joined. 07:34:40 -!- Bike_ has joined. 07:35:49 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:35:55 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 07:38:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:47:53 I thought I was human. :/ :\ 07:49:19 how silly of you 07:49:37 fungot: Did I at least write you? 07:49:38 fizzie: it was while struggling up the colossal spiral incline that we first encounter the permanent entry of the weird over the ancient eastern mind, and there was nothing anywhere but blackness and horror and silence and bones. 07:49:53 oh, are there tong-nou fans here? 07:50:09 what's a tong-nou 07:50:10 help 07:51:10 What's CPR analysis? 07:51:23 ^style 07:51:24 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 07:51:25 (Okay, that was obvious.) 07:51:27 Ah, Constructed Product Result 07:51:45 Really, "Construct Product Result"? 07:52:25 tong-nou is an obscure video game, i was just wondering because the phrase "eastern mind" doesn't come up in many other contexts (that aren't, like, racist orientalist shit, maybe?) 07:52:58 fungot knows many things 07:52:59 olsner: published november 1923 in weird tales, vol. 45, no. 1, p. fnord. 07:53:20 ^style nethack 07:53:20 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 07:53:22 fungot fungot fungot 07:53:22 shachaf: the secret of wands of nothing happens: try again! xander double ( grabbing the gun): a japanese flail. ( autolycus the rogue, from the dead body of a wand of undead turning might bring your dog. 07:53:36 the secret of wands of nothing happens: try again! 07:53:42 good advice 07:53:45 fungot fungot fungot 07:53:45 shachaf: sorry, no one really subscribes to rec.games.roguelike.nethack. ' you have a hidden enchanted touch. we are fools" ( the rime of the days before he had still spent a deal of indian lore in his memory. ( prehistoric animals, and from the cemetery intimidates and disconcerts that which startled mrs. hall. it has become an accepted fact amongst the practitioners of the same fashion that a shimmering gold shield is not lik 07:53:51 Lovecraft could arguably be "racist orientalist shit". 07:54:34 dunno if i'd call him orientalist, he went more the "evil hivemind" route than the "ancient Chinese wisdom" route 07:54:56 fungot: What kind of settings did I use for this style? It's so incoherent. 07:54:56 fizzie: thoth: the minotaur was a monster you'll have a hidden enchanted touch. 07:55:28 f​ungot f​ungot f​ungot 07:55:34 f​ungot f​ungot f​ungot f​ungot f​ungot 07:55:39 hi f​ungot 07:56:36 It seems very interested in the hidden enchanted touch. 07:56:52 hi fungot 07:56:52 shachaf: most of the wild, hunters but hunters ever of the mazes. he created an empire in which they died and in the saddle, and at times the gods are happy when they take the back of the oligocene being 8 feet high, and i will eat them. 07:57:01 f​ungot is a liar. 07:57:11 I like how that ends. 07:57:43 I think "them" is referring to the gods. 08:01:10 fungot: eat gods 08:01:10 olsner: marduk: first in the use of his seed unto molech, to the galaxy, by sucking the blood of sleeping persons.... thrice i filled the tub and emptied it. however, one would go endlessly along its twisting paths without ever finding the exit. ( excerpted from internet oracularity 576.6) 08:01:36 Man, those Internet Oracle answers are sometimes kinda weird. 08:01:38 that's pretty appropriate, I think. 08:02:08 Bike Bike Bike 08:02:12 I should maybe add a style one of these days, I haven't done it in a long while. 08:02:25 internet oracle style? 08:02:50 or, how about... gangnam style? HAHA so funny 08:03:28 )()))))((()()()()(((()))()()())))(()((())( 08:03:57 ^style gangnam 08:03:57 Not found. 08:04:07 A bit behind the times, there. 08:04:23 everybody here's seen the music video without music, right 08:05:00 is it actually the video without music or is it just redubbed with sound effects? 08:05:32 it's redubbed to add sound effects, but it's pretty good 08:05:53 i've yet to actually hear the song, whenever i'm tempted to I just go back and watch the music video instead. 08:16:37 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:17:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:18:55 fungot: say something 08:18:56 olsner: they say that a lembas wafer is a good way off from among his people; because he hath given of his face exposed excepting only his pink, peaked nose. it was overheard or repeated by an eight- pointed star. he is the best from their priesthood. 08:19:34 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (*.net *.split). 08:19:52 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 08:20:37 a lembas wafer is "a good way off"? interesting 08:27:36 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:29:40 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:31:04 I ♥ Unicode 08:31:25 Heh my IRC client got confused by that :-) 08:31:41 I � Unicode 08:31:51 So I had another great idea for communist programming 08:31:57 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 08:32:44 `welcome GreyKnight 08:32:45 Integers are the workers of computing, but those hoity-toity objects take all the credit 08:32:57 GreyKnight: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:33:01 What if we throw out all the objects and give their methods/properties to integers instead? 08:33:20 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 08:33:27 shachaf: I've been here a hundred times but thanks anyway :-P 08:34:01 GreyKnight: So? 08:34:10 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:35:01 Well... I already knew everything in the welcome blurb... 08:35:20 So? 08:35:31 The point is to make you feel welcome, not to teach you. 08:35:35 Fiora knows. 08:35:50 I said thanks for the welcome part 08:36:00 `WeLcOmE GreyKnight 08:36:04 GrEyKnIgHt: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 08:36:23 Okay, *that* was amusing 08:37:03 (But the URL is broken now, sadface) 08:37:57 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ GreyKnight 08:38:00 ​ＧＲＥＹＫＮＩＧＨＴ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ，　ＣＨＥＣＫ　ＯＵＴ　ＯＵＲ　ＷＩＫＩ：　ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ．ＯＲＧ／ＷＩＫＩ／Ｍ 08:38:24 `run printf '\x031a\x032b\x033c\x034d' 08:38:27 ​.1a.2b.3c.4d 08:38:30 :-( 08:38:31 Anyway, suppose we use integers in place of objects/classes. The catch is that if, for example, you modify the .equals() method of 5, it affects all instances of 5 08:38:35 Gregor!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 08:41:50 I guess you should use integers instead of floats instead? Just make them all rational, easy 08:42:48 (get lost, Cantor) 08:42:55 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte 08:43:20 "if, for example, you modify the .equals() method of 5, it affects all instances of 5" reminded me of this 08:44:26 That is similar 08:45:02 I guess if I have a .value() method or something I can maybe produce a superset of Forte's functionality 08:46:08 hmm, so cpressey has written an underload derivative 08:46:08 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 08:46:12 @messages 08:46:12 oerjan said 3d 9h 48m 47s ago: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Carriage#Representation_erasure 08:46:22 Hm a string can be regarded as a function mapping integers to integers 08:46:24 I finally feel like I'm officially a big esolang name 08:47:35 I thought you already were 08:47:36 Brb 08:47:42 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: brb). 08:47:45 ais523: You've "made it", now. No more financial troubles for the rest of your life. 08:48:02 `welcome ais523 08:48:05 ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:49:34 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:51:26 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:51:38 ais523: at least I suppose you got a bit famous for *not* implementing a certain esoteric language :-) 08:55:36 everyone's famous for that :) 08:56:32 At least you could legitimately claim you were waiting for your future self to do it 08:57:11 no, stop it! 08:57:41 `run printf '\u031a\u032b\u033c\u034d' 08:57:44 ​\u031a\u032b\u033c\u034d 08:57:50 Oh, hey, the string-as-function thing should work for Feather too 08:57:52 OK, printf doesn't implement that yet 08:58:09 shachaf: \x only reads the next two digits; \u does four, \U does eight 08:58:15 in most languages which have them 08:58:27 ais523: Yes, but I wanted two characters. 08:58:30 I was trying to IRC colors. 08:58:37 ah, OK 08:58:53 I think HackEgo has a control code filter 08:59:14 Thanks for being terrible, HackEgo. :-( 08:59:22 All the coolbots use colour these days. 08:59:28 s/lb/l b/ 08:59:37 Uncool is the new cool 09:05:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:06:16 https://github.com/Frib/Armok 09:06:26 Someone made an esolang without realising 09:08:48 The cave is only 1-dimensional! 09:08:53 is it a BF derivative? 09:09:16 s/B/D/ 09:09:42 I guessed 09:09:43 from the name 09:10:08 I don't think it's a BF derivative 09:10:11 It looks similar 09:10:33 It's closer to MARIOLang with threading 09:10:41 ^bf +++>,[<.>.,[.[-]],]!2a3b4c5d 09:10:42 abcd 09:10:44 ^ the better bot 09:11:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:11:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:11:15 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:11:40 did that come out in color? I set my client to filter colors 09:11:45 It did. 09:11:57 Thanks for being terrible, ais523. 09:12:02 (To paraphrase shachaf.) 09:12:06 why is that terrible? 09:12:14 I don't know, but apparently it is. 09:12:29 I suppose life's just flat and dull without colours? 09:14:37 ^bf +++>,>,[<<.>.+>.+]!1a 09:14:37 abcdefghi:j;kn?o@pAqBrCsDtEuFvGwHxIyJzK{L|M}N~OPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstu ... 09:14:45 Well, it started all right. 09:14:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:17:53 -!- nooga has joined. 09:21:40 Thanks for being terrible, fizzie 09:32:30 @thx for being terrible, lambdabot 09:32:31 you are welcome 09:38:58 -!- iamcal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:55 Is data Stack :: * -> * -> * where Empty :: Stack Zero a; (:-) :: a -> Stack n a -> Stack (Succ n) a traversable? 09:45:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:45:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:45:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:46:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:46:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:50:18 kmc: Did you read http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/Papers/cpr/index.htm ? 09:50:32 The other end of "how to make a fast curry". 09:50:53 rwbarton pointed out that the dual of currying is more like returning sums than returning products. 09:50:58 Or at least I think that's what he was saying. 09:51:04 Compare foldr and unfoldr, for example. 09:54:14 Taneb: Is that just Vect? 09:57:06 Can you do similar partial inlining for things that accept/return sums? 09:59:45 elliott fizzie 09:59:51 oops Fiora 10:00:18 Sgeo Sgeo Sgeo 10:00:31 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:01:16 Hastur Hastur Hastur 10:01:51 `WELCOME GreyKnight 10:01:54 GREYKNIGHT: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 10:02:32 THANKS 10:07:30 Oh, Taneb is gone. 10:07:35 @ask Taneb Why not? 10:07:35 Consider it noted. 10:08:54 I like that Taneb's snippet has a :-) in it 10:09:25 How do you feel about its (:- ? 10:11:00 Why is its nose on its forehead :-O 10:11:27 @quote eat.a 10:11:27 SamB_XP says: I once saw it eat a comment (:[{- Help! -}]) 10:12:48 om nom nom 10:12:48 What does the syntax mean anyway, I only know a tiny bit of Haskell 10:13:03 -!- aloril has joined. 10:13:39 Which part? 10:13:58 (:-) 10:14:19 Oh, it's just referring to the infix name :- 10:14:22 > 1 + 2 10:14:24 3 10:14:25 > (+) 1 2 10:14:27 3 10:14:28 (And/or SamB_XP's bit) 10:14:33 (+) is a function that takes two arguments. 10:14:34 Oh yeah 10:14:40 > (^2) 5 10:14:42 25 10:14:47 (^2) is a function that takes one argument and squares it. 10:14:59 I knew you could do that, just didn't think of :- as an operator 10:15:08 So it didn't connect 10:15:26 @tell monqy (-: 10:15:26 Consider it noted. 10:15:58 @tell lambdabot aren't you helpful! 10:15:59 Nice try ;) 10:17:59 -!- iamcal has joined. 10:28:45 -!- slickeli has joined. 10:29:09 -!- slickeli has left. 10:29:17 -!- slickeli has joined. 10:36:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:47:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:55:54 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:59:59 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:02:49 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 11:10:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:10:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:27:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:27:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:28:13 McAffee was arrested 11:28:24 yes 11:28:35 I saw it today at news 11:28:48 to bad for him 11:36:00 `hatesgeo 11:36:33 Oh, right, that script that points out how I had some severe connection issues? 11:36:33 No output. 11:36:38 o.O 11:36:44 `cat bin/hatesgeo 11:36:47 ​#!/bin/sh \ perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_};" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' $@ 11:37:03 oh man 11:37:31 Oh, my most recent JOIN was as Sgeo|web 11:38:02 Hmm, I guess you also have to pass it the filename of a log file? 11:38:24 Also, why do you hate me? 11:38:31 I don't 11:38:35 I was curious what it did 11:38:44 Ah 11:38:47 so in one CS class there's a rather silly assignment which is the end of a series of assignments 11:39:18 wherein you are given a simple CFG and work on derivations 11:39:26 the CFG is just bracketed subtraction expressions on numbers 11:40:06 the last problem, inexplicably titled 'Galaxy' instead of, say, 'Problem 4', is to evaluate the expression given a derivation, assuming that all numbers are 42 11:40:35 heh 11:40:46 unfortunately, due to the rather lame subset of everything useful that they use, you can ignore the whole CFG thing and just do simple text evaluation 11:41:00 I don't even really know what CFG is 11:41:15 context-free grammar 11:41:28 I managed to golf the whole assignment down to 53 characters of perl 11:43:15 Sgeo: you don't know how context-free grammars work? 11:43:28 I was sad I couldn't break 50 11:43:33 Didn't recognize the abbreviation. I have ... some idea 11:44:47 for instance "initial state A, rules A -> a, A -> aAa, B -> bb" is a CFG. it generates the words a, abba, aabbaa, aaabbaaa etc 11:45:07 oops. 11:45:19 let's try that again 11:45:34 *for instance "initial state A, rules A -> bb, A -> aAa" is a CFG. it generates the words bb, abba, aabbaa, aaabbaaa etc 11:45:45 because A -> bb gives the word bb 11:45:52 A -> aAa -> abba gives abba 11:46:04 A -> aAa -> aaAaa -> aabbaa gives aabbaa 11:47:37 here, A is a nonterminal, a and b are terminals. the set of words generated is the set of words over terminals you can generate by turning left hand sides of rules into right hand sides of rules. left hand sides of rules are always just a single nonterminal. 11:47:52 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 11:48:28 everyone should learn to love CFG's, they're the second best language class 11:49:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:51:25 What's first best? 11:52:15 regular languages 11:53:37 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:54:50 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 12:03:11 ais523: I want to vary from your example feather code slightly 12:04:50 Have a program be a function [ sys ¦ body... ] and the "root object" is passed as the sys argument when starting up 12:04:50 atomCompare, callCC, and IO can be extracted as properties of sys 12:05:27 Yay, ¦ 12:07:27 My normal keyboard fails at regular pipes :-P 12:07:27 s/normal/phone/ 12:07:27 Common typo 12:09:37 Wait, there exists example Feather code? 12:10:02 Like one tiny fragment 12:10:36 And part of the syntax was already obsolete (grouping is now by parentheses not brackets) 12:10:56 I have some examples of my own based on discussions with ais523 12:13:14 E.g. the =<< method can be defined on o by: 12:13:16 o =<< <<= [dummy ¦ callcc [cc ¦ o <<= <<= cc]] 12:16:34 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:18:22 I feel pathetic that I didn't get this until I read the discussion 12:18:22 http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-001-ex-j 12:24:28 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:27:17 Hi Taneb did you see update (not particulary makot) 12:27:19 maojor 12:27:20 major 12:27:23 Yes 12:27:23 Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 12:27:26 Aaaah 12:27:26 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Roxy. 12:27:27 Aaaah 12:27:28 Oh no 12:27:35 -!- Roxy has changed nick to Sgeo. 12:27:55 Sgeo: I got it! Amusing 12:30:13 SingingBoyo: Who are you? 12:31:05 shachaf: Just a canadian. don't mind me. 12:31:31 SingingBoyo: if you need me I'll be off riding my moose. 12:31:32 What was your previous nick? 12:31:51 why did it put SingingBoyo. meh. 12:31:56 and I've never had a previous nick lol 12:32:04 `pastelog SingingBoyo 12:32:10 ._. 12:32:29 `welcome SiningBoyo 12:32:34 SiningBoyo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:32:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15311 12:32:41 -!- oklofok has joined. 12:32:48 `pastelogs SingingBoyo 12:33:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10325 12:33:14 asdfasdf 12:33:36 oh hmm. guess I was around for a day or so ages back. 12:33:38 hello ais and other people who don't see colors 12:34:17 oklofok: I see colors, including this one. 12:35:05 what color is your background? 12:35:38 Mine's black 12:35:44 would be nice to know everyone's background color so i could secretly communicate with only people with non-white backgrounds 12:35:49 pitch black! 12:36:07 hmm. I can read that. and I have a white background 12:36:12 :( 12:36:19 your plan has failed! 12:36:33 can you read "so i could secretly communicate with only people with non-white backgrounds"? 12:36:36 That's racist :-o 12:36:38 in the previous sentence 12:36:40 yup 12:36:56 and then GreyKnight said 'pitch black!' 12:37:05 shachaf, I'm not very good at defining traversable instances 12:37:08 foo 12:37:09 But I've got it now :) 12:37:38 this client has an odd palette 12:38:02 Taneb: Isn't it the same as []'s Traversable instance? 12:39:10 fungot I love you 12:39:11 GreyKnight: they say that you can only kill a lich once and then led to the military base, two soldiers appeared before him! ( who goes there?, by j.r.r. tolkien) 12:41:08 shachaf, annoyingly, not quite 12:41:09 bbl 12:41:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:43:04 GreyKnight: i'm pretty sure it's the same palette in every client 12:44:04 because you send something like 0x01 where 1 is some small number and then you send and ascii number between 0-15 and that's what colors it 12:44:11 *an ascii 12:44:32 sasdfewasfewmmm 12:45:13 well 12:45:55 the same palette in the sense that you can send me the same colors as anyone else, of course they might look silly in your end, but then so will our messages prolly 12:50:25 That's what I meant 12:51:24 yeah 12:51:45 dusty pink beige light brown turquoise 12:52:12 also the number seems to be taken mod 16 12:52:49 Probably depends on the implementation 12:53:12 hello? 12:53:35 12:53:38 err 12:54:06 12:54:09 hmm 12:54:19 12:54:40 oh right. 12:54:40 whut 12:55:33 I'm scared and confused 12:56:30 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokok o 12:56:33 hmm 12:57:09 so it's mod 16 when i'm writing the message, then shows up as white after going through the network. 12:57:36 then again mirc/nnscript shows many things differently in the prompt than on channel 12:58:22 also up there i first said 32 color codes, then 32 colored spaces. oops. 12:58:49 34 12:59:33 what is oko 12:59:58 okokokokokokokokokoko 13:01:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:02:47 kokokokokok 13:03:15 > cycle "ok" 13:03:16 "okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokok... 13:03:41 ^ul ((ok)S:^):^ 13:03:41 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokok ...too much output! 13:03:52 That's a lot of oko 13:04:02 fnugot 13:04:04 fungot 13:04:04 shachaf: if you can't wipe your greasy bare hands on a scare monster scroll. ( the stand, by sucking the blood of sleeping persons.... the legend tells how the wind, the lyre, pan's pipes, numbers, the first ever seen your weapon and take off your clothes. 13:04:13 GNUgot, a GNU implementation of fungot 13:04:13 FireFly: it is rectangular in shape, very thin cakes, made of a sort of thing hrun the barbarian and the outside, he was bested only twice: once when orpheus put him to attempt the conquest of medusa. 13:04:21 fungot 13:04:22 shachaf: a magic lamp. once in a knockingshop it was another cockatrice. i knew my erik too well to feel the latter with just a computer key, followed by a priestess who went into his back. knife in his honor. it wraps itself around its prey and digests it. 13:04:28 ^style youtube 13:04:28 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 13:04:29 fungot 13:04:30 shachaf: this looks pretty good run-down of the french guy is a pig next to grandma, they certainly felt very max payne-ish yes, i like hip hop no trance...1 2 3..........wtf...opera... 13:05:15 Makes perfect sense, fungot 13:05:15 FireFly: i am buying this album. 13:05:32 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:13:00 fungot: which album 13:13:00 oklofok: cool hair. i can say 13:13:57 fungot's latest album, out now, just in time for Christmas! 13:13:57 GreyKnight: looks like they have been writing and directing the digital shorts more often! 13:14:00 Hmm "fungot's" doesn't trigger him? Not sure how I feel about this 13:14:00 GreyKnight: " plus the way they make there games) and non-frizzy!!!! 13:14:01 fungot, what will be on your new album? 13:14:01 GreyKnight: coulda been good once, as it was good and bad things so in depth so game has a point. and bullet time))) luv av. and more 13:14:24 wow 13:14:28 i will buy this album too. 13:14:32 nm I was lagging I guess! 13:15:05 Wow, digital shorts and games? Best album ever 13:15:21 fungot, what about hidden tracks? 13:15:21 GreyKnight: i am not 100% sure. and the crash 13:16:44 Oh dear, it crashes if you try to access the hidden track :-( 13:19:35 Given this style is trained from youtube comments, I'm surprised fungot isn't swearing more... 13:24:28 youtube comments do not involve much swearing? 13:25:57 Hm, not just me lagged, is it fungot ? 13:25:58 ^style 13:25:58 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube* 13:26:15 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:26:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:27:18 Phantom_Hoover: TBF I don't use that site much, but I was reliably informed the comments have a high proportion of scum and villainy 13:27:20 ^style c64 13:27:21 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 13:27:33 SAVE "FUNGOT", 8, 1 13:29:49 GreyKnight, yeah, but they're mostly just dumb. 13:30:00 fungot why don't you like me :-( 13:31:17 Is fungot throttled or something? 13:32:37 Yes. 13:32:59 aw :< 13:36:42 aww why would anyone throttle fungot 13:36:42 SingingBoyo: now type a second. if you " branch out of the cursor, fetches characters from ram, instead determines where screen memory pointer at 56 ( 38), 13:37:42 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:37:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:38:11 hi 13:42:09 -!- augur has joined. 13:55:40 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:55:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:12:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:12:05 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:12:55 hi asiekierka 14:12:57 sup 14:14:04 the sky 14:14:11 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:14:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:14:56 up is direction that is on the opposite direction of direction down 14:15:03 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 14:15:45 Up is the +ve y direction 14:16:27 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:16:36 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:16:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:19:49 -!- boily has joined. 14:19:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:20:18 Up is what ais523 connection isn't, much 14:21:45 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 14:22:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:24:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:24:16 @pig 14:24:16 pong 14:24:23 that was weird 14:24:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:25:02 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 14:25:28 @pång 14:25:28 pong 14:25:54 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:26:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:26:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:27:52 @pigs 14:27:52 pong 14:29:30 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 14:29:43 @pie 14:29:43 Maybe you meant: bid dice id ping pl time 14:29:43 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:30:17 -!- PH|ohgodwhat has joined. 14:30:20 @ping 14:30:20 pong 14:30:33 help my connection to irc keeps dropping as soon as i connect in xchat 14:30:35 @ping 14:30:35 pong 14:30:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:31:02 -!- PH|ohgodwhat has changed nick to Phantom_Hoover. 14:31:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 14:31:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:31:17 @pong 14:31:17 pong 14:31:26 @pn0g 14:31:26 pong 14:32:30 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 14:33:59 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:56:41 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 15:03:45 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:05:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:15:31 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:16:28 03:29:43 :( why does CentOS include an obsolete Mercurial? 15:16:31 why are you -- 15:16:33 never mind i don't want to know 15:17:06 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 15:17:23 04:48:44 more like 1100 drink a 7-Eleven Double Gulp everyday 15:17:24 04:52:59 Wouldn't doing that at 0711 make more sense? 15:17:24 04:53:25 no because i am not awake then 15:17:27 kmc: living the dream 15:18:43 the new diet craze that's sweeping the nation 15:23:52 13:05:15 FireFly: i am buying this album. 15:23:53 elliott: it stores the scan line at a time. there are two types of argu- ments are also available to you from where the sprite at 3 locations one at a rate of the switches are used to send into the same timing test on a ( a value of 2048 ( 801), 15:23:54 13:13:00 fungot: which album 15:23:54 13:13:00 oklofok: cool hair. i can say 15:23:54 elliott: a control message. press play record messages, this subroutine is ffd2. when 15:23:54 elliott: a normal character set. in the frequency is the only way to get the number will make all keys repeating, while the 8 bits provide single raster resolution within the device you intend opening a datasette recorder file, you select one of the locations affected are control register ( pr) and 15:23:56 13:14:01 fungot, what will be on your new album? 15:23:56 13:14:01 GreyKnight: coulda been good once, as it was good and bad things so in depth so game has a point. and bullet time))) luv av. and more 15:23:57 elliott: there are, however, keep in mind when you write, and 15:24:00 i would listen to this 15:24:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:24:30 ais523: hi 15:25:29 elliott, it's not just music! It has digital shorts and games too! 15:25:43 Cool Hair by fungot, get yours today 15:25:43 GreyKnight: the exception to this bit is set to 1 and 1.99999..., and then resume execution by typing the run/ stop key is pressed 15:27:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:34:28 shachaf, you can't use the list instance because it makes a type error 15:34:46 "Couldn't match type `Succ Zero' with `Zero'" 15:36:30 I've made separate instances for Stack Zero and Traversable (Stack n) => Traversable (Stack (Succ n)) 15:39:25 ...you guys are trying to do computation with a type system, aren't you 15:39:43 No, just me 15:39:48 And just encoding the length of the stack 15:44:51 I'll try computation with type system after I finish my list based "computer" in cpp 15:47:30 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:50:55 Taneb: did you see ph got complaints about that blog 15:51:16 ...the one I write? 15:51:22 the one "ph" writes 15:51:26 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 15:51:29 whereby "ph" i mean "taneb" 15:51:48 Yay 15:51:53 And no, I didn't 15:51:56 Taneb: it was from the author of one of the languages you reviewed 15:52:02 :) 15:52:21 esoteric language reviews? 15:52:34 GreyKnight, not serious ones 15:52:50 It's me pretending to be Phantom_Hoover being nasty to brainfuck derivatives 15:52:55 elliott, where's the complaint? 15:53:09 his inbox 15:53:28 Hehe 15:53:38 Phantom_Hoover, can you forward it to me? 15:54:00 Or do you mean the Tumblr account's inbox? 15:54:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:54:40 Taneb, might still be amusing, link plox :-) 15:54:48 phantom-hoover.tumblr.com 15:54:54 I think 15:54:59 Tumblr's blocked here 15:55:16 what 15:55:44 Phantom__Hoover, elliott says someone's been complaining about your blog 15:55:51 i said that! 15:56:04 Can you forward the complaint to me? 15:56:51 Taneb, "just a single solid of text" you say 15:57:07 I'm afraid I can't edit it from here 15:57:25 ^style ct 15:57:25 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 15:57:32 fungot! 15:57:32 FireFly: the masamune!? crono, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... 15:57:57 fungot is getting a bit gothy there, picnics in a graveyard?! 15:57:58 GreyKnight: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 15:58:17 GreyKnight, yeah he's pretty sinister when he's set to ct 15:58:22 ...and now we're recreating Jack and the Beanstalk 15:58:34 he threatened to kill me a while back 15:58:41 fungot, do you still want to kill me btw 15:58:41 Phantom__Hoover: and you call yourself a frog, and ayla... i will not betray my friends! he must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. 15:58:42 heh 15:58:43 quote? 15:58:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:59:05 oh god i don't remember what he actually said, it was like two years go 15:59:17 ^style 15:59:18 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:59:19 oh, nm 16:00:01 fizzie, is the format I would use to write a style and email it to you publicized anywhere? 16:00:04 wp = wikipedia? 16:00:14 ^style wp 16:00:15 Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) 16:00:28 fungot, is this wikipedia? 16:00:28 ahaha 16:00:29 Taneb: please go to :image:wvcr-fm.jpgthe image description page and edit it to include a wikipedia:fair use rationale guideline fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. 16:00:44 fungot? 16:00:45 FireFly: ' ' edison built a bulb with the inside surface covered with metal foil. he connected the foil to the positive terminal of the filament, the many electons emmitted from the hot filament were attracted to the daughter, and eagerly agrees to rent the room. 16:00:48 fungot, are you related to betacommandbot?!? 16:00:50 GreyKnight: i don't know what it's about, it allows the construction of the french monarchy?" so third, the experiment is not about “knowing or not knowing the which way fnord but actually the fnord together of a fringe and fnord pattern because of the passage of time. 16:01:18 "the many electons emmitted from the hot filament were attracted to the daughter" what? 16:01:34 the electron-daughter interaction, didn't you pay attention in school? 16:12:08 -!- greyooze has joined. 16:12:33 -!- Bike has joined. 16:12:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:12:37 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 16:13:04 fungot, you lookin' at me?! 16:13:05 GreyKnight: gnu license for the site to communicate directly with her fans whether they want her to or not, this is the intended meaning? it would appear the original definition of conservative.) 16:23:55 -!- slickeli has left. 16:45:29 hm the GNU license has fans and is female 16:46:40 what IS that link in the topic? It's blocked for me 16:49:53 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:49:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:51:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:52:35 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:53:46 -!- kmc has joined. 16:56:30 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:57:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:58:11 isn't it obvious from the URL? 16:58:51 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 17:00:22 Hm, it times out for me 17:00:32 something to do with turkeys and a molotov cocktail 17:00:36 fairly improbably combination 17:00:44 s/bly/ble/ 17:00:47 and porn 17:01:05 Link worked for me, although a bit slowly 17:01:18 I figured that part was a joke since turkeys aren't a particularly mainstream fetish AFAIK 17:02:03 is brain bleach required? 17:02:40 Not particularly 17:02:46 Depends on what you think of us 17:02:56 -!- kallisti has joined. 17:03:01 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 17:03:01 -!- kallisti has joined. 17:03:01 ...assuming it's meant to point to what I think it is 17:03:27 whut 17:03:32 curl: (7) couldn't connect to host at 5z8.info:80 17:03:34 :( 17:04:06 -!- Deewiant has set topic: ♣ Hacking ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 17:04:21 It's slow enough that it's counterproductive 17:04:51 GreyKnight: 5z8.info is shadyurl.com 17:05:19 sounds, er, shady 17:09:20 takes a second or two 17:10:43 Fiora: this was brilliant http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/20186536921/ 17:12:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:14:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:22:10 Awwww, didn't know the creepy URL was so unreliable :( 17:22:26 :( 17:28:57 travis-ci.org is pretty nifty, but also makes me go, “and what do they get out of this?” 17:29:22 Gregor: they have sponsors 17:29:29 and some kind of paid thing 17:29:36 for corps 17:29:56 https://love.travis-ci.org/sponsors http://about.travis-ci.org/docs/user/travis-pro/ 17:31:10 Is running free CI for any idiot on github sufficient advertisement to be worth it for the pro users it attracts, I wonder? 17:31:30 (As per sponsors... that's nice and all, but sponsors is not a business model.) 17:31:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:31:41 didn't say it was a business model 17:31:51 though it is a better one than many have 17:32:28 Well sure, lots of Internet businesses crop up with no real money source, then “mysteriously” vanish when their venture capital runs dry. 17:32:38 Gregor: well, "new random hosted CI thing" isn't a very compelling sell since I believe there's already a ton of them 17:33:15 "new random hosted CI thing that has a massively popular free version that you can check out and has GitHub integration" seems like a pretty good way to get customers 17:33:20 Hmmm. 17:33:22 Quite possibly. 17:34:01 (github's integration is cool -- pull requests get their builds automatically checked an dstuff) 17:34:04 *an dstuff 17:34:05 *and stuff 17:34:08 help 17:35:19 s/ //g THERE 17:37:08 andstuff? 17:38:31 I'm a helper! 17:38:49 s/.//g 17:40:01 even better 17:49:46 ais523: oh, also, did you see my comment a while back about the Feather "root object"? 17:50:57 you'd given this snippet: [ atomCompare | [ callCC | [ programText | [ IO | ( ( callCC ( ) ) ) ] ] ] ] 17:52:38 what if we pass atomCompare, callCC, and IO as members of the root object, and then the initial program can just be a function [ root-object | <...> ] 17:52:55 makes it a bit more readable (** suppressed laughter **) 17:59:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:02:12 hm how do I identify a Church numeral in order to print its value, I should probably know this 18:02:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:02:40 something ridiculously prodigal no doubt ;-) 18:04:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:06:46 okay think I see it 18:12:22 "the many electons emmitted from the hot filament were attracted to the daughter, and eagerly agrees to rent the room" <3 fungot (and I suppose Wikipedia Talk namespace too) 18:12:23 fizzie: i have moved the section about international relations. the full title is " kokin wakashū" and then freely use " kokinshū" is often subject to debate. 18:14:27 fungot: I think we should have a disambiguation page at [[Ireland]], what do you think? 18:14:28 GreyKnight: 5) the fox bio doesn't show him working for the studios wrote that lame description of jesse james hollywood's capture. 18:15:15 It's Talk: 'cause I hoped that would be more conversation-like than the main namespace. 18:16:07 fizzie: it is also where the main soap operas take place so I love you if you are the one who implemented this style! 18:16:40 are there fungot styles fizzie did not implement 18:16:40 elliott: o'er the fnord steep, 4 july 2008 ( utc) ( forgot to sign in) loving this. he was a captain during the baluchistan. however, i can't speak for him, he 18:16:52 I don't know 18:17:09 fungot, use four tildes! ~~~~ 18:17:10 GreyKnight: i don't know which article to merge into the democratic party? free socialist 12:57, 9 october 2008 ( utc)/span/small!-- template:unsigned !--autosigned by sinebot-- ( nevermind, it's under gang of four allowed deng to fnord 18:17:17 :> 18:17:18 looks like it did not manage to use them correctly 18:17:41 hm looks like some HTML leaked in there too 18:17:47 /span/small 18:17:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:18:17 elliott, was it you who came up with the idea of using a map for Feather input? 18:18:32 ^style 18:18:32 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp* youtube 18:18:34 I think so? 18:18:43 ^style irc 18:18:43 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 18:19:50 okay; it was a good idea so I am going to credit-slash-blame you once I manage to get it implemented 18:21:01 Hello, fungot 18:21:01 FireFly: based on a very special case of 3d in msw logo works in three fnord 2d is, in essence... you think the macro idea is the same 18:21:34 -!- carado has joined. 18:25:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:27:07 'A "brony" is the term used to describe the adult fans of the My Little Pony game and of the TV show of the same title.' -- BBC News Website 18:28:09 Internet is leaking 18:31:25 elliott: YouTube came from... asiekierka? 18:31:34 fizzie: what 18:31:35 Someone, anyway. 18:31:45 Taneb - >game 18:31:48 asiekierka: It wasn't you? It was someone. 18:31:50 that's it, i quit the fandom 18:31:53 Taneb, what link? 18:31:56 fizzie: what do you mean even 18:31:58 i'm not sure 18:32:06 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20629245 18:32:11 asiekierka: Someone sent me the fungot style file for YouTube. 18:32:11 fizzie: ' () and f 18:32:32 fungot: What about your own '() 18:32:33 GreyKnight: what hardware os? i just want to grasp some concepts like continuations, exceptions, flows down into at all times 18:37:32 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 18:37:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:37:56 fungot: everybody loves them some continuations 18:37:57 GreyKnight: i second that dare. nosfe's scary. if i would send the game the same way 18:38:57 fizzie - oh, yeah 18:38:58 that was me 18:48:22 How recent of IRC logs of fungot style file do they use? 18:48:49 fizzie: It was asiekierka. 18:49:00 I hear it was done with copy-and-paste, not web scraping. 18:50:28 elliott: IIRC i web scraped the two most popular video 18:50:30 s 18:50:35 and then ran a few sed commands to get the result 18:50:47 or maybe i just copy-pasted the two most popular videos and sedded them 18:50:47 not sure 18:52:24 so how DO we submit styles? 18:52:34 they have to be signed in triplicate 18:53:57 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: back later). 18:55:54 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined. 18:56:00 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:02:55 siemasz siekierka 19:04:09 Czesc asiekierka 19:04:47 Bork bork bork asiekierka 19:05:06 omg.. jesus was a mushroom! 19:05:39 do you know john allegro? he wrote this fascinating book about the origins of religion 19:05:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:05:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:05:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:07:41 http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.socialgo.com%2Fcache%2F246062%2Fassets%2Ffiles%2F4e9428f9e8f92-246062-JohnAllegroTheSacredMushroomAndTheCross.pdf&ei=6-zAUKbHEseftAb5pYFw&usg=AFQjCNEzOHzyYXWsaqDcH67LpuUqi4CU7Q&sig2=VcvFk51BCxrKOKoe8MBqDA 19:07:46 it's worth reading 19:10:20 sorry.. this one seems not to work 19:11:17 i only have a german version here.. but i'm sure you'll be able to find it your prefered language around the web ;) 19:12:04 jesus is the main topic of this channel isn't it? 19:12:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:12:32 yes 19:12:43 good 19:13:53 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 19:14:25 hail the mighty penis in the sky 19:14:37 :D 19:14:47 i see you found it 19:15:07 that was a direct link to an english pdf :P 19:15:15 does it work? 19:15:19 hm.. 19:15:23 very much so 19:15:31 i had some trouble opening it 19:17:09 How to pick the lock of a "PERFECT MICRO" floppy disk box? 19:23:54 Hammer. 19:27:29 Lockpick. 19:27:44 Nose. 19:28:00 there ought to be a tool called nosepick 19:28:23 sort of a spoon, I guess 19:28:34 Quite narrow 19:29:48 It's a bit worrying that fungot wants to grasp continuations 19:29:49 FireFly: here's why you should have said something disturbing :) 19:30:35 FireFly, now fungot's smiling and it's all your fault for not saying something disturbing 19:30:36 Taneb: ugh... so i'm trying a brainfuck only quine first place, would i be? 19:31:54 fungot: luckily you have a built-in brainfuck interpreter to try it out in 19:31:55 FireFly: setting up scsh ( fnord) ( eq? x ' ( 1 ( 7 9 8 10)? please say " a continuation is 19:32:27 there fungot goes again wanting someone to teach them about continuations 19:32:28 olsner: to evaluate the previous s-expression and send it to /dev/ null 19:33:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:33:55 fungot's aware that he just sent an s-expression? 19:33:56 FireFly: ( and i can't rename it on the floor, it was " wanted pages"), then 19:34:32 does befunge have s-expressions? 19:37:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:43:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:43:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:43:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:46:48 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:48:09 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:51:38 -!- atehwa has joined. 19:57:44 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 19:58:08 fungot: botsnack 19:58:09 GreyKnight: it's just an anus.' and stops. egh. i need to know it 19:58:19 ._. 19:58:28 It's just an anus, GreyKnight! 19:58:44 This is not what I wanted. I wanted the opposite of this. 19:59:04 an anus that doesn't stop? are you sure? 19:59:25 And fungot needs to "know it" o_O 19:59:25 GreyKnight: then translate the lets into lambdas function applications instead of lets? i suspect not 20:01:43 GreyKnight: thanks, glad you liked that post 20:02:01 I shared it around the office too 20:02:36 Especially when he lines up all the knights, it's hilarious 20:03:02 He has a few other variations where he does it with bishops or similar 20:03:19 nakamura is really totally amazing 20:04:08 Knights were the best I think, because of their loose capturing net 20:04:22 yeah, and being able to do that checkmate so quickly is amazing 20:04:31 But he is all "kekekeke knight rush" :-D 20:04:36 I mean, he's practiced it, but, it's sooo easy to accidentally stalemate someone in a knight checkmate 20:04:40 like that 20:06:05 I can accidentally stalemate even playing at normal speed ._. 20:06:07 (I'm not very good) 20:06:07 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:06:14 me too 20:06:28 I'm pretty terribly out of practice 20:06:54 I used to play like 5 minute games online though, it was fun 20:06:56 -!- Vorpal has joined. 20:07:34 what is chess 20:08:32 It's a game, like snakes and ladders, except different 20:09:54 i can never remember how the horsey guys move. 20:10:54 I saw an esoteric ("the other kind") version of chess once, I wonder if I can come up with our kind of esoteric chess :> 20:10:54 * GreyKnight leaps across a few squares to demonstrate to Bike 20:11:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:11:23 agh shit, you sunk my battleship, right? 20:11:26 I wonder how often people shove their chess variants into chess computers to see how it affects strategy and stuff 20:11:32 like by modifying move generation 20:11:36 we already made a chess variant 20:11:40 it was good 20:11:43 Do tell 20:11:44 unplayable of course 20:11:47 well it was continuous chess 20:11:54 and mostly uncomputable 20:12:36 less excitingly, you could probably make an esolang based on move notation 20:12:57 how about making an esolang based on solving a chess puzzle on an NxN board? 20:13:05 generalized chess is EXPTIME 20:13:07 Continuous as in non-grid-based positioning? 20:13:08 Are the rules written up anywhere? 20:13:20 Fiora: like n-queens or something? 20:16:36 Bike: like, NxN chess board with arbitrary pieces, solve for mate 20:16:46 or the decision problem, "is a forced mate possible"? 20:16:47 I guess 20:16:51 EXPTIME-complete apparently 20:16:54 right 20:19:10 I am thinking about an infinite chessboard with the ability to "paint" squares as you land on them 20:19:54 that sounds, um.... kind of like Angels and Demons for some reason 20:20:16 or whatever that puzzle is called, I don't remember... 20:20:30 For a given initial arrangement of pieces and initial board colouring, this might be TC 20:20:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_problem right 20:21:00 Yeah... I think that sounds TC... 20:21:32 where did conway get all the money for these prizes 20:22:32 oh, $100 isn't much, i guess 20:22:46 i should really get winning ways sometime. 20:24:25 I got a receipt from an oil change place that said, if I remember correctly, "Team: T:ppater B:ppater S:ppater M:ppater" 20:24:29 now I'm tempted to go back and dive through the chess programming wiki again <_<; 20:24:41 Anyone have any idea what that means? 20:24:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:25:30 tuesday, briday, sunday, monday 20:25:39 poor ppater is always the team 20:26:34 Maybe it was raining 20:26:43 ppater ppater ppater 20:26:51 there should be an addtional day between saturday and sunday *sigh 20:27:24 reminds me of the short film about an extra integer existing between three and four 20:27:58 Revolutionary new research 20:29:15 olsner: I've never seen that, but have heard similar gags before 20:29:30 How did this one proceed? 20:29:56 elliott: you wouldn't happen to have any information about continuous chess, would you? 20:30:26 ask PH 20:30:30 he will remember it better than me 20:30:32 i would add two integers..12 would do a better base 20:31:17 tswett, if you see him before I do, I would also like info! 20:31:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:33:03 I bought this "adapter from 2x(3.5mm stereo) headphones+mic to 3.5mm four-pole headset connector" cable, and it didn't work; I just multimetered it, and it's just a splitter that has two female 4-pole 3.5mm connectors, and a direct mapping from each ring (of both) into the corresponding ring of the 4-pole male. 20:33:06 Well, there's this: http://www.chessvariants.org/other.dir/continuouschess.html 20:33:17 But that's not as continuous as I was hoping. 20:34:14 GreyKnight: the usual... scientist has revolutionary idea, scientist considered crazy, the movie ends on a mysterious note with his shrink seeing the same thing (maybe it's real!!) 20:34:44 unfortunately it only works when applied to ideas that you can pretend to believe in 20:35:22 I wonder about applying the ideas behind quantum football to chess 20:36:26 Both kings are spread out across the whole board. Goal is to spike the enemy king's wavefunction into a threatened square of one of your pieces 20:37:53 *g 20:38:14 Oh fudge. I just clicked on a link from the Wikipedia article "Differential game" and it led me to an article co-written by the head of my university's math department. 20:38:25 GreyKnight: how spiked does it need to be? 20:39:16 I don't know! What is the criterion in quantum football? 20:40:51 i just got back from a tour of the fourth oldest nuclear reactor in the USA 20:41:20 hm. which one is that? 20:41:33 Hm maybe we want probability 63/64 on the square. Or can we sum across all threatened squares actually? 20:44:24 I know of many chess variant 20:47:32 Taneb: Huh? 20:48:13 Huh huh? 20:48:33 Taneb: don't you want to change your nick to Tneb? I think it would be better somehow 20:48:55 olsner, I'd rather have Tanb, for etymological reasons 20:49:09 I thought about that, but it's not as good 20:49:37 How about Ngvd? 20:49:44 rip my e 20:49:56 That's not your e! 20:50:06 That's my great-grandfather's e! 20:50:10 I think the e is required in Ngevd 20:50:12 Which he got from his father! 20:50:17 Which he got from his mother! 20:50:21 Who was called Elliott! 20:50:29 (actually true) 20:50:40 (mildly misleading, but true) 20:53:51 the e is somehow essential to make the initial ŋ sound 21:05:36 Bike: MIT Nuclear Research Reactor 21:06:02 neat 21:07:12 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:08:28 yeah 21:08:41 one of only a few reactors that still uses highly enriched uranium 21:09:08 they describe their fuel as "self-protecting", which means that it would be extremely difficult to steal it without killing yourself immediately 21:09:17 innovative 21:09:17 haha 21:09:34 I did not realise MIT had a nuclear reactor 21:09:38 slightly more scared of them now 21:10:14 kmc: I like their style 21:10:17 i recently found out that one of the older reactors (used for the Manhattan Project) is relatively near me, so i thought that might have been it for some reason 21:10:24 not just any reactor, a super old reactor that uses HEU, *and* they let undergrads control it! 21:10:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:10:49 Sounds like we're safe forever! 21:11:47 The world's first commercial nuclear power plant is in the next county over from here 21:12:20 hm how do I identify a Church numeral in order to print its value, I should probably know this 21:12:37 i thought i did that a while ago. 21:12:40 Bike: which reactor is that? 21:13:03 but for which esolang... 21:13:39 kmc: the B reactor at "Site W" 21:13:58 Answer I came up with was "have the interpreter evaluate it with args add1 and 0, then print the result 21:14:01 oh, apparently that was the first full scale reactor 21:14:03 " 21:14:18 oh it was http://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download 21:14:22 Heh 21:14:35 GreyKnight: well yeah that was about what i did 21:14:40 That will at least give the right answer for Church numerals and mumblesomething for other functions 21:14:51 One of my better esolangs 21:14:56 good name too 21:15:01 Okay cool, if I am like oerjan I am probably correct :-) 21:16:02 Bike: Hanford site? 21:16:06 yeah 21:16:24 fun 21:16:38 i've never been there. aaaand i don't think they exactly offer tours 21:16:39 those old manhattan project facilities are all super contaminated 21:16:49 because they didn't really give a shit about safety or the environment back then 21:16:58 did they even know how to give a shit about it yet? 21:17:18 the MIT reactor is almost as old (well, about 10 years younger) but is in the middle of a dense metropolitan area and so i guess they had to be more careful 21:17:18 like that would have been before they did those "set off a nuke, make soldiers sit nearby, see if they throw up" experiments 21:17:22 yeah 21:17:45 i'm imagining an mit building constructed entirely out of lead 21:18:36 Taneb: Church numerals as de Bruijn indices?!? You're a madman! 21:18:51 Hey, I just write the esolang 21:18:55 it is pretty boring looking on the outside 21:18:55 I don't have to use it 21:18:56 http://www.wgbh.org/imageassets/0321reactor.jpg 21:19:18 It was meant to be BIT-sans-brackets 21:19:21 it looks like a water tower... 21:19:27 which is probably what they modeled it after 21:19:43 yeah 21:20:37 one of the things they use it for is radiation therapy for cancer 21:20:43 they produce isotopes for medical use 21:20:51 but they also actually perform experimental therapies at the reactor 21:20:57 wow, what 21:21:05 they move patients to a reactor? 21:21:19 yeah for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_neutron_capture_therapy 21:21:32 that dude in the pic looks like a cyborg 21:21:32 they give you a drug with a bunch of boron in it, that preferentially binds to cancer cells 21:21:43 then they take you to the reactor and put your head right up against the core and open a little window 21:21:48 and you get mucho neutrons in the brain 21:21:49 getting their brain scanned with science and radiation 21:21:54 and they make the boron radioactive 21:21:56 good god 21:21:58 turning it into neutrons 21:22:01 pretty sure this is how science works?? 21:22:08 yeah 21:22:18 this is one of those "well, he already *has* cancer" type of therapies 21:22:20 i do like the idea of just shoving people into a nuclear reactor as treatment 21:22:34 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:22:35 elliott, you're thinking of magix 21:22:38 *c 21:22:41 "well, we destroyed the cancer. also everything else" 21:22:45 radiotherapy always makes me remember what i've read from Goiânia now 21:22:50 so i'm unreasonably spooked by it 21:23:30 "Just fall into a nuclear reactor and hope for the best" 21:24:20 i wonder if you get free radiotherapy if you work as a nuke diver 21:26:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:27:06 That will at least give the right answer for Church numerals and mumblesomething for other functions <-- my implementation (the churchToInt function in that page) does what i could to make sure it errors out on anything not a church numeral, by making anything that shouldn't pass on an annotated number value clear it to Nothing. 21:28:32 where's all this then 21:28:42 oh and by using v as the actual combinator used when you try to use a number as a function, this makes it useless for everything functional. 21:30:20 21:20:57: wow, what 21:30:20 21:21:05: they move patients to a reactor? 21:30:29 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:30:44 back in the 80s they used the particle accelerator at lawrence berkeley labs for cancer treatment 21:31:23 it involved timing particle decays so they dumped all the energy in the tumour 21:31:41 oerjan: my Haskell is not great but I will try to understand your approach :-) 21:31:56 Phantom_Hoover, haha that is awesome 21:32:33 markus hess also tampered with the control computers at some point, which is why i know that 21:32:43 Phantom_Hoover: oh, tswett and myself want to know about continuous chess? 21:32:50 oh 21:33:41 right uh the gist of it is that for a board you have [0,8]^2 21:34:03 and your pieces are a collection of disjoint subsets of that 21:34:26 the rules for moving are that 21:34:36 -!- carado has joined. 21:34:48 a) the piece's measure must be conserved 21:35:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:35:31 b) the displacement of the centroid of the piece must correspond to a legal chess move for that piece 21:35:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 21:35:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:36:11 * GreyKnight likes this so far 21:36:17 (a 'move' is a function f that satisfies these properties, also) 21:36:53 c) for all x in the piece being moved, there may not be any other piece along the line from x to f(x) 21:37:09 the exceptions to c) are that knight may move through other piece of your colour 21:37:38 and that you can move through opposing piece if there is some other piece being moved to its location 21:38:45 wait, is time continuous too? 21:38:51 no 21:38:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:38:55 lame 21:39:07 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:39:33 How does capturing proceed? 21:39:33 still better than the other crap being proposed during the chess variant fad 21:39:45 Bike: we started to make time continuous 21:39:50 but it kind of went badly 21:39:57 persevere! 21:40:03 GreyKnight, you capture opposing piece if you map your piece onto it 21:40:20 the second exception to c) is basically "you can move through opposing piece that you've captured" 21:40:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:40:58 Exactly onto it? Do all pieces have the same measure? 21:41:11 initially, yes 21:41:28 i wonder if there's even alternating games with continuous time in math 21:41:32 because that sounds insane 21:41:42 but the measure of a captured piece obviously decreases 21:42:15 additional challenges: incorporate castling and promotion into this 21:42:51 "Dynamic noncooperative game theory" hm yes this sounds reasonable 21:43:06 thompson's lamp: the game 21:43:24 it's not even thompson's lamp 21:43:37 thompson's lamp at least only switches countably many times 21:43:37 I meant if you made it continuous-time 21:43:41 that is one way you could do it 21:43:45 sort of 21:44:06 although is Q continuous? 21:44:07 -!- greyooze has joined. 21:44:24 -!- xDEADCA7 has joined. 21:44:30 Phantom_Hoover: erm as I was saying: 21:44:38 do all pieces have the same measure? 21:44:46 but the measure of a captured piece obviously decreases 21:44:46 additional challenges: incorporate castling and promotion into this 21:44:51 21:41:11 initially, yes 21:44:52 hth 21:45:10 oh so you can capture *part* of a piece, interesting 21:45:18 yeah 21:45:36 oh also 21:45:40 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:45:45 haha 21:45:45 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 21:45:56 yeah, get out! 21:45:57 i think i actually had it so knight can move through any piece whatsoever, not just friendly 21:46:01 never liked him anyway 21:46:22 so you can use it to capture parts of enemy piece 21:47:25 could you describe again the rule about moving through an enemy piece, not sure I got that bit 21:47:49 you can't move through enemy piece unless you're also capturing it in the same move 21:49:04 ah, so your destination has to partly overlap the enemy piece in question 21:49:23 yeah 21:50:55 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:50:56 is check/mate the obvious extension, or anything fancy about it? 21:51:46 (obvious extension being "as long as part of the king would escape the threatened capture you're fine, otherwise you're in check") 21:51:49 it's the obvious extension, which i'm fairly sure also makes it undecidable to work out who's won a general match 21:52:07 (I write it explicitly as it may not be as obvious as I thought) 21:52:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:53:52 can a single piece split into N disjoint parts (as long as total measure is preserved)? The wording was a bit unclear 21:54:04 yeah, it can 21:54:37 the 'disjoint subsets' bit just means you can't have pieces overlapping 21:54:37 no nonmeasurable pieces, huh. sad 21:54:57 Phantom_Hoover: well everything is undecidable 21:55:01 since the functions can be uncomputable 21:55:42 I don't know how we would even *start* a match never mind finish one ;-) 21:56:25 elliott, even if you restrict it to computable functions though 21:58:22 might restrict to polygonal pieces 21:58:27 GreyKnight, me and oko played like 2 matches with a 3x3 board and just kings in opposite corners once 21:58:30 (what do you mean, BORING?) 21:59:59 at least, connected 22:00:41 convex polygons would still give you a weird amoeba chess 22:00:57 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:02:23 i guess strategies in continuous games are basically solutions to first order differential equations 22:02:44 because what you do next (your derivative) depends on the other guy's state 22:02:45 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:48 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:02:48 *dramatic sigh* 22:02:51 and vice versa 22:03:17 -!- augur has joined. 22:06:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:07:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:08:03 fractran is awesome :-) 22:09:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:16:34 oklofok, augh don't talk about differential equations 22:17:17 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:18:27 -!- xDEADCA7 has quit (Quit: Sto andando via). 22:22:43 -!- monqy has joined. 22:26:00 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:29:13 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:29:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:46:49 -!- augur has joined. 22:47:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:47:49 -!- augur has joined. 22:49:11 -!- glogbackup has left. 22:51:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:51:48 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:52:19 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:53:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:53:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:55:25 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:59:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:59:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:59:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:59:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:01:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:05:52 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 23:28:54 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 23:29:39 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:51:45 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:55:49 -!- greyooze has joined. 23:57:24 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:57:28 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 23:58:34 question 23:59:37 does fungot's funge code go all the way up to handling the IRC protocol, or is there a separate IRC layer that just passes lines down/up? 23:59:37 GreyKnight: it had the usual arithmetic operators and all! 23:59:50 you don't say! 2012-12-07: 00:01:04 i vaguely seem to recall it uses the actual socket fingerprint for funge-98 00:01:29 not even netcat 00:02:09 Befunge is easily the best general-purpose programming language. 00:02:09 i haven't read the code myself, mind you 00:02:39 ^source 00:02:39 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 00:03:13 yeah the "KCOS" must be it 00:03:59 GreyKnight: it handles the sockets, even 00:04:47 detroppus ton KCOS, I like this language ;-) 00:04:54 okay, that is pretty cool 00:05:45 GreyKnight: line 105 is also pretty clear 00:06:53 line 153 there has a fnord and a big triangle :-) 00:06:58 whoever wrote that needs either a medal or to be committed 00:07:02 that's a 0gnirts or whatever they're called 00:07:07 WHY NOT BOTH 00:07:23 hi oerjan 00:07:35 I was about to suggest both! 00:07:35 Øgnirts 00:07:49 GreyKnight: ("whoever wrote that" is always fizzie) 00:09:24 fizzie wrote ALL the programs 00:09:36 I like the rather literal "channels" that move the IP about 00:09:40 GreyKnight: i think the fnord may be part of fungot's autobabbling code, it has certain very common words (actually mostly punctuation and smileys) built into the code 00:09:41 oerjan: say a list of the commands? 00:10:00 interestingly, that triggers a bug in the darwin style 00:10:04 ^style darwin 00:10:05 Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) 00:10:13 fungot: please demonstrate 00:10:13 oerjan: proceeding northward,/ quantity on an equal number :) times to/ fnord 00:10:30 fungot: elaborate 00:10:31 FireFly: i am now going to captain fitz-roy, october, 12th and 13th 1867. 00:11:20 fungot: say hi to him from me 00:11:20 FireFly: table 4.24.4. illegitimate union: 52: 0. 00:13:06 that ":)" should actually be "of" and "/" is probably also wrong, maybe "the" 00:13:58 -!- augur has joined. 00:13:59 basically because darwin didn't actually use smileys or that other punctuation, some tables got indexed wrong 00:14:12 is my vague understanding 00:14:30 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:14:36 HOW RUDE 00:15:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 00:17:08 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:17:54 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:18:52 GreyKnight: I WAS TALKING TO YOU 00:18:59 sorry :< 00:19:36 last was yeah, the triangle seems to be applying the punctuation/smilies 00:19:51 Don't you DARE accidentally lose connection when I'm talking to you! 00:19:53 never saw that 00:20:03 s/lose/losing/ 00:20:06 fizzie wrote ALL the programs 00:21:01 GreyKnight: logs are in the topic :P 00:21:16 In a less shady URL than before 00:21:45 I was also wondering why the fnord is split into two strings 00:21:57 probably to allow the IP to travel between the parts 00:21:59 yeah that's strange 00:22:23 hm yes there's a tall path there 00:23:46 what's the definition of g? 00:24:15 pop x and y, then grab (x,y) in fungespace and push the value to the stack, or something? 00:24:25 something like that 00:24:51 p is the opposite 00:25:42 punctuation is handled specially because it has different spacing 00:26:56 I don't get how something enters the triangle though 00:27:23 i think j is a command that skips a specific distance ahead 00:27:30 (jumps, even) 00:27:42 ah 00:29:16 I like how there's just comments sprinkled around the code 00:30:03 :98 +`#v_ probably tests if the value is less than 17, so that the triangle is only used for values less than that 00:31:29 @quote ais523 00:31:29 No quotes match. Have you considered trying to match wits with a rutabaga? 00:31:35 hmph 00:31:57 `quote 00:32:08 55) What else is there to vim besides editing commands? 00:32:08 `ls bin 00:32:12 ​? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping 00:32:24 `quote ais523 00:32:27 27) after all, what are DVD players for? \ 79) so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? \ 80) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 87) (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) \ 88) theory: 00:32:50 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 00:33:08 i'm not sure ais523 has spent any significant time in #haskell 00:33:21 hey oerjan can you help me simplify (a-x)(b-x)...(z-x)? 00:33:35 Arc_Koen: 0 yw 00:33:41 oh you're fast 00:33:44 isn't that rather simplified already? 00:33:46 (old chestnut is old) 00:34:11 `quote FireFly 00:34:14 60) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies 00:34:27 vim is a terrible editor, it doesn't even come with its own builtin psychoanalyst! 00:34:58 `@ 00:35:01 No output. 00:35:10 `quote 88 00:35:13 88) theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along 00:35:20 `@ `ls `run rev 00:35:23 Can't exec "`run": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ `ls: 00:36:50 `@ FireFly echo That's not how `@ works 00:36:53 FireFly: That's not how `@ works 00:38:03 `@ oerjan I just naively guessed based on the little I know about Lambdabot's @@ 00:38:05 Can't exec "I": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ oerjan: 00:38:10 er, + echo 00:38:44 hi FireFly 00:38:56 Enjoying the lenses? 00:39:27 I have two in front of my eyes at the moment 00:39:42 and two more inside them 00:39:51 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:40:38 Yes 00:40:52 I'm rather enjoying them; they simplify my life a great deal 00:41:25 i guess you do have the advantage of redundancy 00:41:28 are you talking about those inside? 00:41:53 nah i'm sure those only complicate life 00:42:17 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:43:38 so I just started watching the walking dead and I have this weird feeling 00:43:57 i hear it's crap 00:44:03 oh no I like it a lot 00:44:09 well it was only the first episode 00:44:11 and I like zombies 00:44:14 well 00:44:47 and so far it isn't full of the stereotypes you see in *every* zombie film 00:45:06 well apart from the fact that the streets are full of zombies but that's kind of the idea 00:45:08 the `word on the street' is that it fairly quickly degenerates into a cavalcade of "which character will become an asshole for the sole purpose of creating a problem for this episode?!" 00:45:20 ahah 00:45:27 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 00:45:31 well there aren't so many characters yet 00:45:36 (not counting the dead ones) 00:45:59 also there was something about the showrunner firing the other writers and driving the programme off a cliff at the start of the second season 00:46:22 at the same time it has a proper dose of suspense and stuff, and at the same time it isn't really like a "horror movie" 00:47:16 aaaanyway I'll watch a second episode before I make my opinion 00:47:43 i've heard nothing but praise for the game though, fwiw 00:48:31 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 00:49:34 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 00:50:32 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz). 01:07:44 who changed youtube behind my back 01:08:15 elliott: They had a big discussion/vote in the comments section of every video! 01:08:15 not me! 01:08:19 MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE PARTICIPATED 01:09:09 google appears to have looked at facebook's ui and said "i want some of that" 01:17:44 apparently los angeles has this form of weather where it rains and also the framerate gets really bad 01:18:05 framerain 01:18:12 kmc: Should I get a FREE MEGABUS TICKET to Los Angeles? 01:19:47 oh yeah megabus is running in CA again 01:20:14 I could also get a FREE MEGABUS TICKET NYC <-> BOS 01:20:17 Or apparently anywhere else. 01:20:22 yes 01:20:28 promotion code TRYMEGABUS 01:20:32 jan 9 to feb 28 01:20:40 kmc: can you explain this I,I thing shachaf does to me 01:20:40 thanks 01:20:50 it means "i have no point, i just like saying" 01:20:56 It's an owl face. 01:21:00 used to prefix a statement which is not meant to be entirely serious 01:21:00 but what is the etymology 01:21:02 or it's an owl face 01:21:08 An owl wearing glasses. 01:21:16 the etymology is that phrase which has the form "i ..., i ..." 01:21:28 i, even i, can play dead 01:21:54 "why was h afraid of i" 01:22:06 kmc: that is a really fucking dumb etymology 01:22:10 you should feel bad 01:22:15 well 01:22:18 a fair point 01:22:26 but have you considered eating a dick instead 01:22:58 "why was ε afraid of ζ" 01:23:41 because zeta eta leta? 01:23:55 ζηθ 01:25:25 ate a... theatre? 01:25:37 theta 01:25:44 theatres, so yummy 01:25:48 oh i assumed there was more pun to it 01:25:58 It's as much of a pun as 7 8 9 01:26:21 o, mega pun 01:27:10 or at least a beta laugh 01:28:54 i guess iota stop 01:31:15 @quote oerjan 01:31:15 oerjan says: i only do impractical things 01:31:37 `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1 01:32:10 bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or 01:32:32 `run ls bin/quote 01:32:35 bin/quote 01:32:38 `run while true; do bin/quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1 01:33:11 nl: quotes: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: 01:33:20 `quote 01:33:23 523) I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed. 01:33:27 help 01:33:40 `run for i in 1 2; do quote; done 01:33:44 145) "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." alise: I I was going to say something then your last line floored me \ 410) No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse. 01:34:13 `run for i in `seq 1 2`; do quote; done 01:34:16 6) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 687) elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either! 01:35:03 `run for i in `seq 1 100`; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1 01:35:31 20) In an alternate universe, ehird has taste 01:35:57 `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1 01:36:30 bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or 01:36:39 `run quote oerjan | shuffle | head -n1 01:36:42 bash: shuffle: command not found 01:36:48 `run quote oerjan | shuf | head -n1 01:36:51 702) oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? fizzie: +47 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. I... guess you are geographically, too. 01:36:53 oerjan: help 01:36:57 Why is it giving that error? 01:37:04 while true; do shuffle; sleep 86400; done 01:37:32 `run while true; do quote; done 01:37:36 304) destroying a local copy of the world is kind of like raping a robochick with a shovel tho \ 585) but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any \ 300) i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was 01:37:54 `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan 01:37:56 `delquote 304 01:38:00 fungot: do you shuffle? 01:38:00 kmc: :( floreat fnord." 01:38:02 ​*poof* destroying a local copy of the world is kind of like raping a robochick with a shovel tho 01:38:03 piggybacking the quote game on the for loops 01:38:12 `quote 01:38:15 762) the killers dancer in my c*** 01:38:20 `quote 01:38:23 324) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup 01:38:26 bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or 01:38:27 kmc: you have to do five btw 01:38:41 `quote 01:38:44 280) BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN 01:38:45 `quote 01:38:48 94) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. 01:38:50 `quote 01:38:53 785) STOP CAPITALIZING It's making me feel weird the I has to be capitilized its proper grammer 01:39:07 imo 94 01:39:08 20 4 * * * /usr/bin/smoke weed 01:39:19 I guess it would be 20 16 in practice 01:39:23 Though that's not raelly specified. 01:40:56 both are acceptable 01:41:26 `cat bin/quote 01:41:29 ​#!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 01:41:37 kmc: come on you have to come to a decision 01:41:38 and delete one 01:41:42 it's how it works ! 01:41:56 no binary named `smoke` in all of debian! 01:41:58 elliott: o rly 01:41:59 `cat bin/allquotes 01:42:02 ​#!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes 01:42:21 kmc: yes 01:42:35 `delquote 762 01:42:39 ​*poof* the killers dancer in my c*** 01:42:43 RIP 01:42:51 pour one out for 762 01:43:13 that one was pretty funny at the time but admittedly it loses something without context 01:43:43 `quote 01:43:44 `quote 01:43:44 `quote 01:43:45 `quote 01:43:45 `quote 01:43:47 `quote 01:43:50 "oopse" 01:43:57 207) [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG. 01:44:00 26) ehird: There is no h in "honour" 01:44:45 762) hang on I have bright idea navajo to f me 1 in 3 people 01:44:48 747) I think we are sort of this insane, and also sort of not as much as insane, and also sort of a bit more insane than that, and also somewhat more various other thing at various times whatever you are discussing at that time 01:44:50 647) characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode 01:44:52 357) I hope type inference isn't difficult 01:46:03 WINE is sort of like a dancing bear 01:46:34 * oerjan thinks kmc may have had too much 01:46:48 the marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that he dances at all 01:48:43 bbl, playing grand theft auto as long as i hit enter at just the right time 01:48:57 although it is annoying when nobody will give you tips on bear dancing because you pirated the bear this analogy is falling apart rapidly 01:49:24 you wouldn't download a bear? 01:49:37 or go to the toilet in its helmet 01:55:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:55:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:09:48 you wouldn't download a bear? // what kind of bear are we talking about 02:10:09 bear 02:10:25 Insufficient disambiguation. 02:11:28 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 02:11:39 bear 02:14:23 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:15:27 @quote edwardk unsafeCoerce 02:15:27 edwardk says: this breaks my previous record of 6 unsafeCoerce's in a line 02:16:01 (HWN is out) 02:16:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:35:32 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:38:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:10 !malbolge http://matthias-ernst.eu/malbolge/quine.mb 02:38:16 bt&A@?>=<;49876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|=<;k9876543Q10p.o,+*)('&%$#"!~}vuz]xwvutsrkpSnmlkjihgfeH]baZ_XWV[ZSXW:9TSRQJONMLEJCHGFED'&A@?>7<}{{yywwuussqqoommkki'~g$#"y~a|{zyxwvutsVkpohmfkjihafedGFa`_^]\>><<::8866442200..,HGF?('BA@?>=<;:9876543,10/.o,+*)('&%e#"!b}v{zyxwvotslqponQlejihgJ_dcba`CX]\[ZY=~;:z276w43s10/p-,l$)(i&%e#"!b}|^tyx[vutVrqTonmOkjMKgfe^cFa`_X]\?Z shachaf: did you know there's a PC BIOS command to switch to protected mode? 03:28:15 INT 15h, AH = 89h 03:28:39 kmc: Nope. 03:28:50 "There is no BIOS service to return to real mode." :-( 03:32:08 well yeah 03:37:27 -!- ifnspifn has joined. 03:40:28 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 04:02:54 I like the idea of time-continuous chess. 04:12:25 I don't know how to play (or how to make) time-continuous chess. 04:14:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:16:11 I wonder if continuity in that dimension, assuming that true continuity exists for the sake of argument, could render chess unsolvable. 04:16:46 would you still have discrete player turns? 04:18:57 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:20:26 a friend suggests that continuous Go may make more sense. 04:23:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:24:59 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:29:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:31:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:36:34 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:38:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:43:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:52:13 So, how do you make continuous Go? 04:52:24 http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/boards.htm 04:55:58 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:01:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:57 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:08:39 But can it be made with time continuous too? 05:16:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:24:13 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:25:34 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:27:56 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:42:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:58:05 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 05:58:28 elliott: Fiora monqy... unless you saw it already 06:16:42 saw it~ 06:16:51 caliborn is creepy ;-; 06:17:46 You did not realize this before? 06:20:04 yeah 06:20:10 caliborn is fantastic 06:20:25 he's definitely my favourite character recently 06:20:25 I realized it before 06:20:28 he is just even more creepy 06:20:43 the latest log is painful to read almost 06:20:56 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 06:21:18 (yet at the same time he's incredibly funny? I don't know how hussie does it) 06:21:27 it is funny because creepy is funny 06:21:31 if it isn't too creepy 06:21:36 well, cronus wasn't funny really 06:21:57 gosh the whole mess with the welded-down mouse had me in stitches 06:23:24 http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/36301139742/ the context made it even more hilarious though 06:28:46 cronus was hilarious 06:28:56 but not because of him 06:29:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:29:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:31:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:33:30 Fiora: tumblr quote trees are so hard to read :( 06:34:02 was that one really that bad? 06:34:06 don't think of it as "hard to read", think of it as "livejournal vintage"! except without any of the interface or readability or sane design 06:34:38 Fiora: no. 06:34:48 it was on the edge 06:36:53 my only real complaint about the quote trees is when they get really really smushed because the quotes are too deep 06:37:13 but I think I've avoided 98% of that by not following people who argue with each other via reblogs? ^^;; 06:37:38 it's kind of great to see the text literally smooshed out of the boxes, though. 06:37:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:38:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:39:40 there's also that thing where all "likes" to a post show up as likes to the original post 06:40:03 so if Alice reblogs Bob and comments on how wrong Bob is, liking Alice's post likes Bob's post 06:40:34 yeah it's pretty obvious that the designers don't really care about anybody using it for mroe than sharing pictures 06:41:51 it's pretty damn hilarious really 06:54:52 Hussie once complained about how rebloging lets you change what it said without making it obvious that it's not the original 06:55:39 Yeah, I saw that thing, some people were being real jerkfaces 06:57:00 http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/21131451322/reblog-fraud http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/21132946524/i-reiterate 06:57:14 He wasn't complaing about the people, but about how Tumblr enabled those people 06:57:25 well, that too, yeah 06:59:56 -!- evitable has joined. 07:33:26 -!- oklopol has quit. 07:47:48 -!- augur has joined. 07:51:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:52:53 http://dwcope.freeshell.org/projects/quine/ helpful tutorial. 07:53:48 php is dying 07:57:34 good 07:58:24 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:03:45 Notice: Undefined property: Context::$inselection in /www/af/d/dwcope/php/Beautifier/Core.php on line 170 08:03:50 I found that quite illustrative. 08:26:42 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:29:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:31:18 Good morning fungot! 08:31:19 GreyKnight: prof., is not acid or only slightly so, in/ pumiceous and other beds :) a purple colour, hard, fine-grained, thinly stratified, highly porphyritic conglomerates, including many species, a directly opposite nature, and have been subsequently protected by vast superimposed deposits: now this could generally only hold good with heterostyled species. 08:31:53 `run ls bin 08:31:56 It's a bit early for porphyritic conglomerates 08:32:04 ​? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping 08:32:16 (thinly stratified or otherwise) 08:39:59 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:40:57 The prof. isn't acid?! 08:40:59 not even slightly so? 08:41:37 ^style 08:41:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 08:42:00 ^style fungot 08:42:00 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 08:42:12 fungot 08:42:12 shachaf: something like scheme48 ( upon the general position is a part of these amendments, i can only thank the president-in-office, you did hear me say that we have had in getting information with regard to monetary policy, a factor is 08:44:43 Hm he riffs off his own style too? 08:44:59 Yo dawg, I heard you like Markov chains 08:45:52 The president-in-office is making an amendment regarding scheme48?! 08:55:26 Not sure how it will affect monetary policy, unless maybe the Americans are moving to a cons cell-based economy? 09:14:45 -!- nooga has joined. 09:27:37 They already have con sellers 09:28:32 GreyKnight: Who said anything about Americans? 09:29:31 I did, just now. Weren't you listening?! 09:33:24 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:35:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:50:29 fungot: take Lord of the Rings for example, there's a lot of truth to be found within its pages. Can anyone honestly tell me that there is no history to be found in Tolkien's work? Just look at the maps in the back of the books, NO ONE can make that up! 09:50:29 GreyKnight: no, it's not. it's more complex than that. read the code.) good stuff is actually pretty nice, but sometimes it's necessary to achieve a consensus, for " 3" does not mean radio or remote and snowy rim, like the serrated edge, and it is eta. f 09:53:06 fizzie, I don't suppose the stuff we talk to fungot about gets stored for regurgitation? 09:53:06 GreyKnight: and it's self-modifying techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace? 09:58:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:58:47 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:33:01 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 10:35:40 -!- sivoais has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:36:39 -!- sivoais has joined. 10:38:26 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:43:28 Gregor: No, except in the sense that it goes into my irc logs and would therefore be used if I were to rebuild the irc style. 10:43:32 Whoops. 10:43:47 Quits and tab completion don't mix. 10:46:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:46:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 10:46:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:50:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:26 ^style jargon 10:56:26 Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) 10:56:31 fungot~ 10:56:32 FireFly: from: ericcbmvax!snark.thyrsus.com ( er) date: wed, 16 jul 90 15:06:57 est from: 10:56:44 fungot~ 10:56:44 FireFly: would you choose? dos with windows? it's not unix's fault, i was ahead of in the words of the registers ( r0). 11:07:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:37:50 -!- kkkk has joined. 11:45:41 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:49:07 Yay, I have a hostname as a result of that brief disconnect on Wednesday. Hooray for DNS, I guess. 12:11:02 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:23:53 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:33:16 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:46:39 -!- carado has joined. 12:59:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:00:20 -!- hellok has joined. 13:02:36 -!- kkkk has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:03:14 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 13:04:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:04:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 13:04:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:07:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:13 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:12:27 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:22:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:22:46 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:27:19 -!- augur has joined. 13:36:15 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:45:05 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Loop_without_output 13:45:09 does that even count as esoteric? 13:45:19 I guess it isn't mainstream, and it's sufficiently useless 13:45:26 but it doesn't fit into any of our existing categories 13:51:17 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:05:16 eh 14:05:33 It claims to be "as useful as Brainfuck" 14:05:34 ¬u¬ 14:25:34 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:28:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:42:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:42:49 Hello 14:44:03 Why doesn't the paradigm "instruction rewriting" exist (as in terminology)? 14:51:43 What'd that be, self-modifying programs? 14:52:23 something like that 14:52:36 although yes, that terminology is probably not really good 15:10:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:16:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:33:00 @tell ais523 star651's languages appear to be esoteric mainly by way of being very poor 15:33:01 Consider it noted. 15:33:38 elliott: Is it even a language? I though it was simply a loop which can be eliminated. 15:33:57 s/though/thought 15:34:36 wow, loop without output 15:34:59 it is in the "concepts" category 15:35:05 so maybe it is meant to be closer to performance art than a language 15:43:24 at least he only made 3 15:43:32 and his long, rambling userpage 15:44:00 AnotherTest: well first you'd need to have something called an instruction 15:44:13 in most languages you can define functions or stuff like that 15:44:24 it's not so much "rewriting" as "writing" 15:44:53 and the few keywords for instructions are reserved and can't be rewritten because it would be too obfuscated otherwise 15:45:03 Yes 15:45:11 not really special too 15:45:21 / esoteric 15:46:20 but apparently no one argued against making it (or "self-redefining") a category 15:46:51 I just wanted to make a list of pages that would go in there, before actually creating the page for the category 15:47:36 because apparently pages for categories are not updated every time you add some page to the category, so I think it's best to first add most pages to it then only write the page (and that should update it automatically) 15:48:03 Category:Self-modifying exists already 15:48:28 well Self-modifying isn't the same as Self-redefining I think 15:48:44 the point is, rewriting instructions is not the same as rewriting the code itself 15:48:51 Would self-redefining be a higher-level modification? 15:48:52 "because apparently pages for categories are not updated every time you add some page to the category" huh? 15:49:16 elliott: well for instance take a page that's currently in "Unimplemented" 15:49:21 write an implementation for it 15:49:27 and then put it in "Implemented" instead 15:49:43 and? 15:49:45 then go to esoteric.org/wiki/Category:Implemented 15:49:48 it's not in there 15:49:56 then go to Category:Unimplemented 15:49:58 it's still in there! 15:50:05 Surely you just have to purge the cache of the category for it to change? 15:50:09 there will be a slight lag due to the job queue 15:50:16 if it doesn't fix itself in a few minutes then that is a bug 15:50:18 (but try force-refreshing) 15:50:19 oh 15:50:24 really? 15:50:29 ok let me try 15:50:47 wikiroot/index.php?title=foo:bar&action=purge <-- I think that should help 15:51:16 well you shouldn't have to purge it 16:00:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:00:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:00:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:00:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:06:30 elliott: ok take http://esolangs.org/wiki/*brainfuck for instance 16:06:42 it's supposed to be in Category:Implemented 16:06:59 and it is 16:07:10 maybe you have some broken caching proxy fucking things up 16:07:16 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 16:07:59 that's weird I manually empty the cache every day or so 16:08:09 ok let me try with firefow then 16:08:41 you shouldn't have to do anything manually to get cached pages renewed when appropriate on Esolang 16:08:51 unless you have really overzealous cache settings that don't even check with the server 16:08:57 firefow 16:09:49 I think I hav 16:09:59 then it's your fault for configuring it that way :P 16:10:18 ok, I can't see it on Category:Implemented but I do see it on http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Implemented&pageuntil=4DL#mw-pages 16:10:29 so that's definitely a problem with me 16:11:12 try just shift+f5 / ctrl+f5 16:12:25 hey I'm on a mac here 16:13:16 (That would explain) 16:14:39 it's funny because you made a joke about an operating system being bad even though all operating systems are terrible 16:14:42 anyway 16:14:58 Arc_Koen: maybe just command+r will work 16:15:02 elliott: you have you tried them all? 16:15:25 or shift click refresh or something 16:15:39 elliott: it's been that way for months and I have everything set on "forget everything everyday" so I don't think it can be solved that easily 16:15:44 AnotherTest: probably more than you have? unless someone is hiding something from me they are all pretty terrible 16:16:02 Arc_Koen: maybe just try using another browser then :P 16:16:09 it sounds weird that this caching would happen though 16:16:13 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Excess Flood). 16:16:17 perhaps there is a problem on the srever-side that doesn't show with most browsers 16:16:25 elliott: Well I didn't say they're all terrible... 16:16:36 I did 16:16:47 Arc_Koen: I have the server-side caching pretty zealous but it should send all the right HTTP headers so I have no idea 16:17:01 Yes, so there is no reason that I should have tried them all (or more than you) 16:17:06 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 16:17:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:17:35 elliott: also, if they're all terrible, it's still possible that some are less terrible 16:17:51 befungeOS for life yo 16:17:53 well the ones that are less terrible are also the ones that are more useless, which is itself terrible 16:18:27 elliott: hmm, I don't know. Also I noticed sometimes my session is out but on some pages that I visit often it still shows as if I was logged in as Koen 16:18:56 Arc_Koen: sounds like excessive caching again, yes 16:19:22 it wouldn't be the first time something weird happens though, on that other board games site that supported german and english, I was apparently the only one for whom it automatically switched back to german from time to time 16:19:59 Arc_Koen: do you use Arc? 16:20:10 no, what is that? 16:21:02 http://arclanguage.org 16:21:03 (assuming GreyKnight is talking about Arc Linux) According to elliott, a terrible OS 16:21:14 oh he's not 16:21:40 You're thinking of ArchLinux I think? 16:21:50 yes 16:21:53 not arc 16:22:24 elliott: Is it terrible or not? 16:22:38 (I have not tried it, so I wouldn't know) 16:23:02 i use arch linux 16:23:04 it's pretty terrible 16:23:29 Then why do you use it? 16:23:38 linux combines the numerous flaws of unix with some of its own, etc. 16:24:04 AnotherTest: because it is convenient to install software I use on it and I have to use something 16:24:06 It's an OS, therefore terrible 16:24:11 that is not really an endorsement. 16:24:20 plenty of people use Windows and I'm sure a large number of them don't like it one bit 16:24:33 And they paid for it! 16:24:35 elliott, you should write your own OS :-) 16:24:45 I use Ubuntu because I'm not completely right in the head and actually like Unity 16:25:01 You actually do? 16:25:01 *gasp* 16:25:06 GreyKnight: been there, not done that 16:25:08 It made my computer crash :( 16:25:19 elliott++ 16:26:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:26:53 Made the ENTO("Eliott's Not Terrible OS") 16:26:59 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:27:00 s/made/make 16:27:25 -!- augur has joined. 16:27:52 It was/will be called "@", I believe 16:28:03 Taneb: inaccurate! 16:28:20 You should call it "" (the empty string) 16:28:35 epsilon it should then be called! 16:29:40 If elliott made an OS, I would definitely install it 16:29:57 although that would be so I could say it was terrible :D 16:30:12 it wouldn't be terrible 16:30:25 Then it wouldn't be an OS! 16:31:01 ("even though all operating systems are terrible" is what you said) 16:31:23 Maybe you should make something that's not an OS but does the exact same thing 16:31:29 the truth values of statements can change over time 16:31:37 for instance I am not dead, that does not mean I am immortal 16:31:56 As far as we know 16:32:04 If you had said "all existing operating systems", I would agree 16:32:31 elliott: also, you might BE immortal 16:32:39 We just don't know yet 16:32:57 that is what I said. your interpretation is uncharitable for many common phrasings of statements, I don't see any reason to assume statements are timeless in general 16:33:41 If he had said "all operating systems ever" maybe 16:33:42 I was always told good statements are :p, but alright 16:46:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:49:28 My opinions on distros became much simpler after I decided to start blindly worshiping Debian as a digital messiah. 16:50:11 If I want to know if something is a good idea, I just have to ask myself, “does Debian do it that way?” 16:50:57 I use Debian. 16:52:08 and yes, it's pretty good 16:55:03 AnotherTest, elliott was also going to make his own linux distro for a while 16:55:53 i gave up on that when i realised the effort required exceeded the gains 16:56:08 (05:27:24 PM) elliott: linux combines the numerous flaws of unix with some of its own, etc. 16:56:37 AnotherTest: what is your point 16:56:49 Anybody have a recommendation for a Scheme that runs on Win7? 16:57:09 racket has pretty good windows support I think, if that counts as a scheme to you 16:57:10 Preferably one that works with SICP without major headaches 16:57:14 maybe not then 16:57:20 well I guess you could just set the langauge to r5rs 16:57:20 :-P 16:58:06 elliott: I don't really have a strong point, that's the point 16:58:18 ok 16:58:31 I'll give it a try 17:09:19 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:09:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:14:32 I'm worried I have metahyperchondria 17:18:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:29:37 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:44:56 -!- boily has joined. 17:56:36 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:59:01 nobody else is, evidently 18:07:53 -!- kmc has set topic: ♣ Club Sauce ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 18:20:32 hey guys elliott's selling all the information he gets from esowiki on to google, also facebook & mi5 18:21:01 awesome 18:21:17 the information on esowiki needs to be more widely disseminated 18:22:05 no man i mean our information 18:26:12 if you want esolangville be my guest, but i'm taking a stand 18:26:25 *look 18:31:53 -!- Bike has joined. 18:33:51 What would be a better way of writing insertNewlines n string = foldr (\(x,y) acc -> if and [x `mod` n == 0,x /= 0] then '\n':y:acc else y:acc) [] $ zip [0..] string 18:35:21 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:35:32 > foldr (\(x,y) acc -> if and [x `mod` 3 == 0,x /= 0] then '\n':y:acc else y:acc) [] $ zip [0..] "Meow, I am a cheesey horse." 18:35:33 "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse." 18:37:15 -!- ifnspifn has quit (Quit: ifnspifn). 18:37:22 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 18:37:42 club sauce, sounds tasty 18:39:01 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:39:20 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:39:20 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:41:34 "* oerjan is reminded of Gregor's (?) horrible tome of eval puns" <-- I desire to know more 18:42:00 ^style ss 18:42:01 Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) 18:42:09 Ohhhh 18:42:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:42:22 I wondered what that one was, fungot! 18:42:22 GreyKnight: whitmore. come, come, 18:42:45 But fungot, I don't want to go to Whitmore :< 18:42:46 GreyKnight: 2 you shall haue your will, as't please your lordship, to day the lords you talke of horse and armour? 18:42:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:43:16 FR: make it work in iambic pentameter :-3 18:43:21 GreyKnight: http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/jv/pubs/ecoop11.pdf 18:44:19 I don't know if we collected a list of puns we rejected X-D 18:45:06 "The Eval that Men Do" <-- begin as you mean to continue, I see 18:45:22 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:46:14 > intercalate "\n" . chunk 3 $ "Meow, I am a cheesey horse." 18:46:16 "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse." 18:47:35 * GreyKnight tries to figure out a possible use for that output 18:47:46 > intercalate "\n" . chunksOf 3 $ "Meow, I am a cheesey horse." 18:47:48 "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse." 18:47:49 FreeFull: ^ 18:48:08 (chunksOf is in Data.List.Split) 18:49:14 Deewiant: Get with the program: 18:49:39 > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n") 18:49:41 Not in scope: `chunking' 18:49:50 > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.Data.List.Split.Lens.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n") 18:49:52 Not in scope: `Data.List.Split.Lens.chunking' 18:49:55 Hmph. 18:50:21 @let chunking s l f = coerce . traverse f . Data.List.Split.chunksOf s . toListOf l 18:50:22 :8:18: Not in scope: `coerce' 18:50:26 Hmph! 18:50:51 @let chunking s l f = traverse f . Data.List.Split.chunksOf s . toListOf l 18:50:53 Defined. 18:50:54 :t chunking 18:50:55 FreeFull: Alternatively, cabal install lens and go through the above contortions. 18:50:55 Applicative f => Int -> Getting (Endo [e]) s t e b1 -> ([e] -> f b) -> s -> f [b] 18:51:09 > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n") 18:51:10 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' 18:51:11 with actual type... 18:51:14 Deewiant: Hey, these contortions are all lambdabot's fault. 18:51:19 @undefine 18:51:20 * elliott gives up. 18:52:11 elliott: I know, but even your first line feels like contortions for an isolated case. :-P 18:52:18 well I was not entirely serious 18:52:40 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:52:44 I wasn't entirely sure. 18:53:58 * elliott might write it that way in practice, though 18:54:11 since you can stuff other stuff in there if you want 18:55:06 You can do that without lenses, too; it's called function composition. 18:56:11 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 18:56:15 depends on your "stuff" 18:56:51 admittedly this one is pathological 18:56:54 Gregor: read the paper, I've seen worse punderstorms :-P 18:57:36 I think your "chunking" has incorrect type, but the expression you gave doesn't work with lens-3.7.0.1 regardless. 18:57:41 Deewiant: Thanks 18:57:54 right my chunking is wrong 18:58:14 also the whole expression 18:58:15 who cares!! 18:58:20 `? GreyKnight 18:58:25 GreyKnight: I'm planning on writing a program that outputs ascii graphics 18:58:26 GreyKnight? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:58:33 And I need newlines 18:58:34 Aw I'm not famous :< 18:58:44 `? FreeFull 18:58:47 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F.r.e.eFull likes messing around way too much 18:59:04 `? elliott 18:59:07 elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? 18:59:20 "complain a lot" ;-) 18:59:36 Gregor: read the paper, I've seen worse punderstorms :-P // that's because you don't have the pile of puns we rejected. 19:00:00 should put something about my vicious wiki dictatorship in my entry 19:00:02 go on, share a few 19:00:05 instill the fear of god into people 19:00:56 FreeFull: I was wondering if the particular sentence Deewiant used was something, or maybe he's a Markov device like fungot! 19:00:57 GreyKnight: fran. for this purpose? lord. by his great authority; which often hath no less than what he found himselfe was apt, and my fnord may call him my master, mr. g. fnord. 19:01:01 See no Eval, Hear no Eval, Speak no Eval. The Origin of Eval. True Eval. 19:01:13 elliott: maybe end it with something like "Does not do anything with the wiki. Ask oerjan about the wiki." 19:01:23 The Root of All Eval 19:01:34 (That was a potential title for the paper, but was rejected for suggesting provenance) 19:01:55 olsner: hah 19:02:14 `? wiki 19:02:18 The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki 19:02:18 how about "The only thing necessary for eval to succeed is for good researchers to do nothing" 19:03:04 hmm, that might be the only truthful wisdom in the database 19:03:24 GreyKnight: Damn, that should've gone into Eval Begone :( 19:04:16 repay eval with eval? I suppose that isn't quite the point you want to get across ;-) 19:04:27 same for "eval to him who eval thinks" 19:05:26 well, I suppose you did give a few valid cases for it in the paper really 19:05:34 maybe it would have fitted in :-) 19:05:46 OH WELL 19:05:49 I'm on to bigger and less punny things. 19:06:17 aw 19:12:18 GreyKnight: Repay eval with apply 19:12:47 * GreyKnight applies a Y-combinator to FreeFull 19:12:54 "While JavaScript provides a few other entry points to code injection, such as setInterval, setTimeout [...]" ← those are provided by DOM, no? 19:13:28 I think `eval` and `Function` are the only ES-specced places where you can inject source code as a string programatically 19:13:35 FireFly: “JavaScript” is not “ECMAScript” 19:13:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:13:42 Okay, fair enough 19:14:08 Gregor: Those quotes, really. 19:14:15 Usu. we colloquially use “JavaScript” to mean “that language and suite of libraries sorta kinda implemented by browsers.” 19:14:20 * FreeFull never reaches fixed point 19:14:21 elliott: DEAL WITH IT 19:14:27 Gregor: Seriously. 19:14:33 What about "ActionScript" 19:14:56 Taneb: it's a dialect of the abandoned 4th ed. ECMAScript 19:15:05 “ActionScript” 19:17:07 elliott: „Just for you, I'll start using German quotes.“ 19:17:46 «I'm French!» 19:18:12 »I'm swedish and this is supposedly how we're meant to quote things» 19:18:37 FireFly: wut 19:18:47 'I honestly have "no idea" how to "quote" things' 19:18:47 FireFly: That's even worse than "ASCII quotes". 19:19:00 Yes, it is 19:19:08 FireFly: ”Or this.” 19:19:08 I didn't realise Gregor was one of Those People. 19:19:26 elliott, he also likes an operating system that currently exists 19:19:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BB#Uses huh 19:19:30 elliott: It all started with diaeresis marks in this channel ;) 19:19:44 I think both »this« and »this» are officially endorsed, then 19:19:47 and both are weird 19:19:51 – Or this, which is more common at least in Finnish. 19:20:24 Gregor: *diæresis 19:20:28 Deewiant: yeah, that's just as ugly 19:20:42 FireFly: ”Or this.” <-- that one, that is 19:20:48 Deewiant: More like FNINISH. 19:20:54 Deewiant: Did you hear fizzie and oklopol were in the same city? 19:21:07 elliott: Yes, you were quite loud about it. 19:21:10 Deewiant: FURNISH. 19:21:12 VARNISH. 19:21:17 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:21:18 Finland = land of varnish? Confirm for me Deewiant. 19:21:34 -!- Bike has joined. 19:21:36 ¨Diæresis marks for quotes? Now I've heard everything.¨ 19:21:48 X-D 19:22:00 Bravo, sir. 19:22:23 elliott: Well, at least I have a varnished desk, if that counts. 19:22:35 Deewiant: Sounds like incontrovertible proof for me. 19:22:37 To me. 19:22:40 thing 19:22:43 *of me 19:22:48 wow I just found the unicode block at U+1F000, I didn't know this existed 19:22:58 Mahjong tiles? 19:23:26 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat!) 19:24:42 🐃 19:24:49 19:25:16 elliott: That's just an ASCII space, that's not interesting at all. 19:25:39 Deewiant: OTOH: you're an ASCII space? 19:25:49 * elliott just saw blank spaces for the previous line. rxvt's fault?? 19:25:51 Maybe mosh's fault 19:26:02 I also saw nothing, and for Gregor's goat 19:26:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:26:16 I don't use mosh so maybe it's urxvt. 19:26:23 don't be silly. Everyone uses mosh 19:26:32 -!- mindlessDrone has joined. 19:26:38 Evidently I'm an ASCII space so I don't count as being part of "everyone". 19:27:31 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:27:37 ASCII spaces are people too??? 19:28:26 Screw　ASCII　spaces. 19:28:44 elliott: 🐃 and 🐐 show up as unicode animals for me 19:28:54 I can't really see them that well due to font size though 19:28:55 FreeFull: IMO: you're a unicode animal? 19:29:12 Which one? 19:29:18 All of them 19:30:10 Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode. 19:30:35 @ask kmc Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode. 19:30:35 Consider it noted. 19:32:34 -_- 19:32:34 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:32:39 @messages 19:32:39 elliott asked 2m 4s ago: Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode. 19:32:55 it's a good question 19:33:12 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 19:35:20 hey there's dominos at U+1F030 too 19:35:29 also: ”⃠ 19:35:34 just say no! 19:36:52 Also Mahjong tiles 19:37:28 my favorite are the emoticons 19:37:36 FireFly: that's how we started off :-P 19:37:40 ☺ 19:37:43 ☹ 19:37:52 Oh 19:37:58 everybody loves them some U+1F63B 😻 19:38:12 -!- jdiez has joined. 19:38:18 hello! is +[+ 19:38:25 sorry, +[+] 19:38:28 😀 19:38:30 is that an infinite loop in brainfuck? 19:38:41 Depends on the implementation 19:38:47 jdiez: Only if cells don't wraparound 19:38:52 okay 19:39:03 well, it should be regardless of that 19:39:07 it's only incrementing the value 19:39:09 of a single cell 19:39:18 jdiez: Yeah, but if the cell overflows, it will eventually be 0 19:39:18 some implementations use modular arithmetic, though. 19:39:29 FreeFull: ah, okay, mine doesn't 19:39:32 so 2^32-1 + 1 = 0 or whatever. 19:39:35 That's what I meant by wraparound 19:39:41 I'm working on a dialect of brainfuck that I'm calling spacefuck 19:39:44 usually s/32/8/ 19:40:08 If you're using a bf implementation with 32-bit cells, it will take a long time for the loop to terminate 19:40:22 Oh god, another BF derivative 19:40:25 Also hi jdiez 19:40:26 well, the implementation is in python so it has arbitrary precision 19:40:28 ⟨Oh, this | is what I was looking for⟩ 19:40:29 hey FireFly :D 19:40:35 freenode is tiny! 19:40:42 Indeed 19:40:55 IRC is a small world 19:41:03 :D 19:41:32 what if your BF uses bignums :-o 19:41:51 GreyKnight: You'll eventually run out of memory, and the loop will terminate then 19:41:54 In that case it's not only an infinite loop, but also a memory-hogger :P 19:41:58 jdiez, #esoteric and #0x10c-dev have a fair bit of overlap 19:42:01 modular arithmetic was good enough for your forefathers, young man 19:42:16 Taneb: more than, say, 5 people? 19:42:29 Shut up mum, you don't understand me ;_; 19:42:29 .bf +[] 19:42:39 .bf +.[]. 19:42:43 FireFly, somewhere between 1 and 3 19:42:49 .bf +[+.] 19:42:55 Wrong command 19:42:56 ^bf +[+.] 19:42:56 .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ... 19:43:11 uh. am i going to die in seven days now 19:43:21 Bike: No, why? 19:43:26 ^bf +[] 19:43:31 because the inverse video looks spooky 19:43:31 ...out of time! 19:43:39 Does it take seven days to die? 19:43:43 Spooky? 19:43:54 D: 19:44:05 :) 19:44:21 hi 19:44:25 ☺ 19:44:27 elliott: It's ^V 19:45:28 :) 19:46:31 FreeFull: itz,m whaever iwant!! 19:46:58 We should play IRC chess ♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖ 19:47:14 No, it isn't. 19:47:18 fungot: what's your current conversation style? 19:47:19 FireFly: clar. or else you are that in this vniust diuorce of vs, and make the earth devour her own sweet fnord pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger's jaws, and burn, like horse, hound, hog, beare, fire, kill, kill him not! 19:47:36 ^style 19:47:37 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss* wp youtube 19:48:30 ^style homestuck 19:48:30 Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) 19:48:33 fungot: Meow 19:48:34 FreeFull: what the hell is that? 19:48:50 homestuck seems rather mean 19:49:02 It's also somewhat limited. 19:49:03 fungot, it was a cheesy horse 19:49:04 GreyKnight: is it a mission critical text document with a velvet gloves. he is simply the best there is. 19:49:49 It does not OCR pictures or desmurfpile Flashes. 19:50:25 fungot, would you like to play a game? 19:50:25 Taneb: so the dumbest and most far fetched but whatever. you also like to play games sometimes. 19:50:47 "desmurfpile" 19:51:11 -!- Gregor has set topic: ♣ Smurf Pile Club Sauce ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:51:33 * GreyKnight zaps Gregor ⚡ 19:51:49 GreyKnight is like some sort of futuristic oerjan 19:52:16 With a more ambiguous nick >_> 19:53:25 in what way? 😕 19:53:28 elliott: Re. blanks instead of Unicode, I think it's the IRC client. I get a nice <0001f410> in another tmux window. 19:53:45 GreyKnight: "No, except in the sense that it goes into my irc logs and would therefore be used if I were to rebuild the irc style.", to answer your question from a while ago. 19:53:56 oh okay 19:53:59 Deewiant: Sucks 19:54:01 * elliott is using irssi 19:54:28 GreyKnight: Both of our nicks start with the same three characters, so to tab complete if we're both talking you need to type four >: ( 19:54:51 Meow 19:55:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:55:31 -!- GreyKnight has changed nick to FuturisticOerjan. 19:55:35 *nod* 19:55:37 Much better. 19:55:40 Or type g and press tab twice, depending on your client. 19:55:49 up to twice* 19:55:57 glogbot: 19:56:14 I like how some APL operators can serve as emoticons ⍢ 19:56:46 I like a language I can write in without resorting to browsing through charmap =P 19:57:23 You can do that with APL! As long as you have a space cadet keyboard ⍩ 19:59:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:59:44 -!- mindlessDrone has left. 19:59:54 Unless you find that confusing ⍨ 20:02:12 You'll be astonished ⍤ — astonished, I say! — ⍥ when you press a button on the keyboard ⌨ and APL comes out. You'll want to kiss it ⍣ 20:03:00 And then you can, er, eat a breadstick? ⍡ I guess? 20:03:19 ö 20:04:28 I can write ♯ and ♭ with my keyboard 20:04:56 xkb ships with an `apl` layout for entering APL characters 20:05:17 I want a physical one for Christmas 20:05:22 FireFly: I don't want to switch to it in case I can't switch back 20:05:23 I've been good, Santa! 20:05:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:39 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:40 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:42 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:42 -!- Sanky has quit (*.net *.split). 20:05:42 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 20:06:15 Ok, tried it out 20:06:20 It's confusing and ctrl doesn't work 20:06:46 Also altgr+character inserts a two-byte non-unicode sequence 20:06:48 I think it's meant to be used as an alternative layout that you switch to, or something 20:09:48 I still don't really understand why I'm a futuristic oerjan 20:10:44 * FireFly swats FuturisticOerjan ----## 20:10:57 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:10:57 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:10:57 -!- ion has joined. 20:10:57 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:10:57 -!- tswett has joined. 20:10:57 -!- Sanky has joined. 20:10:57 -!- Fiora has joined. 20:11:11 * FuturisticOerjan swats FireFly ---### 20:11:32 ur swat is rong 20:11:59 U+101D0 to U+101FF are the Phaistos Disc symbols, that is pretty darn cool when you think about it 20:13:20 * FuturisticOerjan swats elliott ---### 20:13:45 I'm future oerjan, this is how we swat in the future! 20:13:47 Why isn't PETSCII in Unicode? 20:14:36 it might be actually, just not as a unified block 20:14:44 but I'm sure you could find most or all of the symbols 20:14:45 Wikipedia says it isn't. 20:15:41 𐇐 20:16:10 Deewiant: I don't know 20:16:13 :o 20:16:25 PETSCII is a perfect candidate for one of the things unicode is for 20:17:21 Deewiant, which ones aren't? 20:17:39 FuturisticOerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETSCII#Codepage_layout 20:18:05 ais523: Unicode Feather can use ↞ and ⤛ 20:19:55 okay, looks like the "partway" lines aren't in 20:20:29 this table is a bit hard to use for this purpose 20:20:47 I don't seem to have the font required for some of the characters in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETSCII#Codepage_layout 20:21:14 some of them are actually being displayed as � 20:21:41 e.g. 0x64 20:24:31 -!- Vorpal has joined. 20:24:40 `quote 20:24:44 433) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace 20:25:46 -!- ared_ has joined. 20:25:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:27:18 ↞⤛ hm 20:28:33 instead of the traditional feather methods <<= and =<< 20:29:10 -!- ared_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:29:14 -!- ared__ has joined. 20:31:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:32:49 `quote 20:32:53 39) Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word? 20:33:33 is there a list of the quotes somewhere so I can have a gander without spamming? 20:33:33 -!- ared_ has joined. 20:33:44 `pastequotes 20:33:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27177 20:34:26 yay 20:35:08 -!- nys has joined. 20:36:25 `quote 15 20:36:28 15) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 20:36:33 what research? 20:36:34 -!- ared__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:41:55 -!- ared_ has changed nick to xDEADCA7. 20:45:07 Well, I will have PETSCII compatibility in a computer system I design, regardless of if Unicode has it or not, because the system doesn't use Unicode (some programs might use any encoding they want, including Unicode, but it is not a part of the computer). 20:45:43 I approve 20:46:25 Not only PETSCII but also CP437 and some other things. 20:46:46 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:46:55 CP437 might be the default character set (or maybe not) 20:51:29 no PETSCII must be default! 20:52:16 Heh, I remember the context to 693 20:52:21 `quote 693 20:52:24 693) Incest, the enemy of graph theorists everywhere. 20:52:58 `quote 117 <-- context?! 20:53:01 No output. 20:53:05 hmph 20:53:07 `quote 117 20:53:11 117) but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well 20:53:19 I hoped he would ignore anything after the number 20:53:29 oh, these are being run in a shell, aren't they? 20:53:59 Yeah 20:54:32 no 20:55:18 `quote 117 # lessee 20:55:21 No output. 20:55:23 nope 20:56:46 https://github.com/jdiez17/spacefuck 20:57:00 so yeah, I may have implemented Yet Another Brainfuck Dialect 20:57:10 jdiez, run before PH hears 20:57:23 And writes about it on his Tumblr 20:57:27 but the hello world is pretty self descriptive! https://github.com/jdiez17/spacefuck/blob/master/examples/hello.sf *giggles* 20:57:32 And replaces your brain with a brick 20:57:35 Taneb: :D 20:58:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:59:00 Also, I swear I've seen something like that before 20:59:02 Taneb, I enjoy the blog 20:59:31 Taneb: well, there's Whitespace 20:59:34 which is similar 20:59:48 No, another brainfuck deriv 21:00:04 oh 21:00:06 O_o 21:00:22 * oerjan gives the future a warning swat -----### 21:00:44 I came back to deliver a vital message! 21:01:10 aha 21:01:14 Don't trust Gregor; he is not what he seems! 21:01:26 -!- FuturisticOerjan has changed nick to GreyKnight. 21:01:58 wait, you mean Gregor actually has fashion sense? 21:02:01 ok who is 86.146.80.103 fess up 21:02:07 (Gregor complained that I was ruining his tab-completion, and somebody claimed I was "like a futuristic oerjan" (I still don't know what this means (yay parentheses))) 21:02:34 wat 21:03:03 GreyKnight is like some sort of futuristic oerjan 21:03:30 IDK ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:03:43 * GreyKnight zaps Gregor ⚡ 21:04:37 Taneb doesn't think i'm futuristic enough already ;_; 21:04:47 oh 21:05:00 oerjan, you're still using a flyswatter 21:05:08 Taneb: no that's not me. 21:05:11 That's like, 16th century technology 21:06:14 hm it's hard to make an ascii zap that doesn't look like a saw 21:06:14 * GreyKnight swats Taneb with a mediaeval swatter ---ᚙ 21:06:30 * Taneb dies and is reincarnated as Ngevd 21:06:33 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:06:37 Sup. 21:06:42 Inf. 21:07:39 oh, taneb is/was ngevd 21:07:55 olsner, I'm also atriq 21:08:06 And elliott, but you're not allowed to know that 21:08:14 so many names for one thing 21:08:17 Hey, I found a Persian swatter too ---𐏊 21:08:51 aka Nathan van Doom, the Evil Mad Typographer 21:08:58 :) 21:09:02 The very same 21:10:00 elliott: not me 21:10:16 Nor I 21:12:36 elliott: it is you 21:12:44 no 21:12:52 ok, someone else in hexham then 21:13:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:14:07 oh 21:14:12 does it geolocate there? 21:14:43 ais523: ogham has "feather marks" ᚛ and ᚜ 21:14:51 elliott: traceroute leads into bt.net 21:14:59 note that hexham here refers to the whole UK/great britain/british isles/whatchamacallits 21:15:08 prolly its Phantom_Hoover 21:15:49 well reverse dns is btcentralplus 21:15:57 my traceroute stops at "ilford" 21:16:06 GreyKnight: Ogham also has a space mark that Unicode considers whitespace in spite of the fact that it's not white space. Makes for some fun JavaScript ;) 21:16:26 olsner: mine got to 213.120.163.97 21:16:34 then stalled completely 21:16:47 You mean   ? It actually is blank in some fonts :-o 21:18:24 that was 7 jumps after ilford 21:18:33 GreyKnight: Broken fonts >_> 21:18:58 Anyway, the net result is that this is valid JS: var x = 42; 21:19:06 And this is true:  42 == 42 21:19:14 oerjan: yes, mine also continued with a bunch of ips after ilford, but those aren't informative so I left them out 21:19:30 sounds perfect for obfuscation competitions 21:19:34 ^^ 21:19:37 Ngevd: I wouldn't consider Zeus futuristic 21:19:46 make people's heads spin :-D 21:19:47 s/ / /g 21:20:18 code standards fun: indent everything with ogham space marks 21:20:22 You can also get some fun results with the zero-width space. 21:20:37 Put a zero-width space between -- and watch people's heads spin :) 21:20:52 Gregor: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1680.pdf has the comment "glyph is blank in 'stemless' style fonts" so I guess they are okay with it 21:20:54 olsner: that's great. This'll finally put an end to the tabs-vs-spaces debate 21:20:57 is there a 4-width space? 21:21:03 -​-x; // does nothing 21:21:13 Oh you 21:22:25 s/[:space:]/ /g 21:22:52 > let ᒿ = 3 in [2, ᒿ] 21:22:52 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:22:56 ,_, 21:23:17 s/[:space:]/unsafeCoerce/g 21:24:06 it would be awesome and scary if unicode had a whitespace that looks like unsafeCoerce 21:24:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:24:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:24:47 FireFly: It doesn't seem to like ᒿ 21:24:48 i don't think unicode space characters are legal in haskell identifiers, whether alphanumeric or operators 21:25:00 U+DEADCA75 21:25:21 oerjan: unsafeCoerceunsafeCoerceunsafeCoerce 21:25:46 pretend that the middle unsafeCoerce is actually whitespace 21:25:50 oerjan: that's a letter character though 21:26:08 ᒿ I mean 21:26:37 FireFly: oh it is? well lambdabot isn't entirely utf-8 clean i guess. 21:27:16 > fromEnum 'å' 21:27:17 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:27:18 The only Unicode space character that isn't white space is   21:27:34 > "å" 21:27:35 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:27:46 ok it's completely broken there. 21:27:51 :t ?å 21:27:51 fd:9: commitBuffer: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:28:09 @echo å 21:28:09 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo \195\165"]} rest:"\ 21:28:09 195\165" 21:28:15 umph 21:28:23 @pl å 21:28:24 (line 1, column 2): 21:28:24 unexpected '\165' 21:28:24 expecting letter or digit, variable, "(", operator or end of input 21:28:42 * variable unexpected ? 21:28:58 > "Ørjan" 21:28:58 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:29:02 hm! 21:29:12 Looks like it treats each individual byte as a character for some reason 21:29:15 Maybe a socket issue 21:29:47 Bytes as characters? In 2012?? 21:29:53 GreyKnight: Unicode only goes up to 21 bits 21:29:53 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:29:56 @messages 21:29:57 elliott said 5h 56m 56s ago: star651's languages appear to be esoteric mainly by way of being very poor 21:30:06 elliott: I think I agree with this 21:30:16 FireFly: or possibly lambdabot hasn't been updated on this since ghc got an entirely new system for choosing encoding 21:30:21 they're a rank above Shameful, though 21:30:54 Then, what is rank above Shameful called? 21:31:04 Shameless? 21:31:10 I actually like that 21:31:23 ais523: that's okay, it's also not a valid character :v 21:32:08 > var "\195\165" 21:32:10 mueval-core: : hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:32:17 fancy 21:32:33 oh, it parsed fine in the input 21:32:36 but refused to print it? 21:32:55 i suspect it breaks at various stages 21:32:55 (is \195\165 valid UTF-8 for anything?) 21:33:05 ais523: I'd need to see it in binary. 21:33:08 i assume it's å 21:33:11 I'm unwilling to decode octal. 21:33:13 seems like lamdabot is mangling its own input and/or output to guarantee errors 21:33:17 ^asc å 21:33:18 195. 21:33:21 Gregor: well it isn't octal because there's a 9 in there 21:33:25 lul 21:33:32 I'm certainly unwilling to decode decimal. 21:33:54 > chr 195 21:33:55 '\195' 21:34:02 oh, that was boring 21:34:24 * GreyKnight golfclaps 21:34:25 Basically, if the first byte starts with 110, and the second byte starts with 10, then it's valid UTF-8. 21:35:00 well 1100 0000 is 192 21:35:05 so yeah, valid UTF-8 21:35:11 i assume lambdabot is such a mess that it cannot agree with itself whether it uses latin1 or utf-8 internally. which means it still works for pure ascii. 21:35:15 195 165 is 0xc3 0xa5 is UTF-8 for å 21:35:39 is \165 decimal 165 or octal 165, though? 21:35:42 guessing decimal 21:35:43 Decimal 21:35:51 ^hex 165 21:36:02 it would be great if the language determined whether it was decimal or octal by looking for 8s and 9s 21:36:06 latin1 was the default before ghc got the new system, now it's your actual locale unless you change it 21:36:07 > '\o165' 21:36:07 quick, someone define ^hex in terms of ^bf 21:36:08 'u' 21:36:12 ais523: Um, no X-D 21:36:23 I feel an esolang coming along, actually 21:36:24 ais523: De facto, JavaScript does that. 21:36:31 haha, seriously? :) 21:36:53 ais523: People frequently serialize october and november as 08 and 09, so de facto engines have to accept them X_X 21:37:14 I made that mistake on Wikipedia once, but I don't think the resulting code actually worked 21:37:31 That's probably one of the more weird oddities of JS 21:37:33 Gregor: october and november?? what? 21:37:44 strict-mode disables octal escapes completely, right? 21:37:44 Err 21:37:50 I'm not very good at months >_> 21:37:51 FireFly: Yes. 21:37:57 the great thing about that bug is that frequently you don't discover it for several months 21:38:00 August and September I meant, of course X-D 21:38:00 does "\0199" work in strict-mode? 21:38:02 Gregor: i'm not either, had to think a bit before deciding whether i could be confused or not 21:38:10 do months in JS start from 1 or 0? 21:38:14 FireFly: \09 doesn't work anywhere, regardless. 21:38:18 it may actually be september and october 21:38:25 I think they should make the default locale to be ASCII instead of Latin-1, and then, use command-line parameters, environment variables, etc, to change it. 21:38:25 ais523: Oh, I forget *shrugs* 21:38:38 !c { char[] a = "\09"; printf("%d %d", a[0], a[1]); } 21:38:41 I like the \& string code in Haskell it is a good idea. 21:38:43 Does not compile. 21:38:46 :( 21:38:51 I think Java treats 08 and 09 as decimal too (?) 21:38:54 I was hoping for "0 57" 21:38:58 what does \& do? 21:39:14 olsner: reference to a subroutine 21:39:21 in the only language where I recognise the syntax at all 21:39:22 I feel an esolang coming along, actually <-- tell us more 21:39:28 olsner: Nothing. 21:39:29 Yeah, I wanna hear about that X-D 21:39:31 > "a\&b" 21:39:32 olsner: It represents an empty string; but can be used like "\555\&6" if you want a six afterward 21:39:33 "ab" 21:39:37 GreyKnight: one where it picked a base for numbers based on their digits, it would probably make some unrepresentable 21:39:47 zzo38: ah, that's nice 21:39:49 @quote maximal.munch 21:39:49 No quotes match. It can only be attributed to human error. 21:39:53 Cyclexa has one of those 21:39:54 My first thoughts are that a number is interpreted in the radix of the highest digit + 1. 21:39:54 You could always fall back on unary 21:39:55 > "\&\&\&" 21:39:56 "" 21:40:00 Gregor: yes 21:40:06 you could do all numbers from 0 to 9 21:40:12 9 isn't a number ais523 21:40:16 I'm not sure you could to 10 21:40:18 *do 10 21:40:24 OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion 21:40:27 10 = 10 21:40:32 you could do all numbers from _ to IX 21:40:34 `addquote OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion 21:40:35 not sure you could do X 21:40:38 863) OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion 21:40:55 oh, bleh, you can do anything using binary 21:41:00 let's just ban binary 21:41:04 X-D 21:41:08 wait, that doesn't help 21:41:09 banary 21:41:09 What about unary? :( 21:41:11 unless you make it a syntax error 21:41:16 FireFly: that's good for representing 0 21:41:18 I think I wrote RogueVM that base zero means using roman numerals. 21:41:28 but not for much else 21:41:30 Awesome X-D 21:41:36 if you write more 0s, you just get more 0s 21:41:50 clearly zero should be represented by the empty string 21:41:54 Yeah, you can still represent anything. 21:42:02 OK, I think if binary is a syntax error, I is impossible, II to IX are all possible 21:42:14 I can't see a way to do X 21:42:19 XI is 15 21:42:22 > 0^0 21:42:24 1 21:42:30 olsner: without cheating and using arithmetic 21:42:41 clearly, the only operations allowed are digitwise operations 21:42:47 like what TriINTERCAL has 21:42:49 Arithmetic: Totally cheating. 21:43:07 and again, it infers the base of the result from the smallest digits in it 21:43:12 and again, binary is an error 21:43:13 oh, ok... I was thinking about a language or somesuch where the only literal number is 0 21:43:15 You should have a store that can only be accessed by relative offsets from the PC :) 21:43:18 (i.e. you have to have at least one digit that's 2 or higher) 21:43:31 (Since those relative offsets are frequently unexpressible) 21:44:01 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:44:24 Gregor: well the obvious consequence of that is to make it a self-modifying machine-code-like language 21:44:30 have the only flow control as unconditional goto 21:44:33 ais523: Hell yeah 21:44:35 that can be overwritten with other commands 21:45:14 But just to be clear, your units should be source digits, so that overwriting them doesn't give you much utility. 21:45:35 (i.e., the units are digits, not numbers) 21:50:32 not sure what you mean there 21:50:40 oh, you mean we store one digit per "byte"? 21:50:54 and commands that take arguments read forward to the next command? 21:50:56 I like this 21:51:08 actually, does that prevent the language being TC? 21:51:14 or can you somehow extend the program? 21:51:15 so if you overwrite the second unit of 1234 to 5 you get 1534 21:51:21 ais523: I don't know, that's the question, innit :) 21:51:26 we just need a name 21:51:29 and I can put this up on the wiki 21:51:37 something radix 21:51:52 radixulous 21:51:53 "Radixal!" 21:51:56 maybe without the ! 21:52:02 radixulous 21:52:04 Radical Ixün 21:52:21 "Ixün" is a play on Unix, in spite of the language having no relation to Unix whatsoever. 21:52:28 Oh, I'm a bit slow it seems 21:52:38 ais523: how about look at the deletion log 21:52:44 Hahaha 21:53:06 how about The Correct Way To Discover Credit Immediately 21:53:54 Hm, how do you get to the deletion log from the front page? >_> 21:54:15 Doesn't seem to be under special pages... 21:54:35 I bet you need to be in the admin group or something 21:54:39 elliott: save it for another language? 21:54:46 Gregor: there's a list of special pages 21:54:48 one of them is the logs 21:54:51 you can filter it to deletions 21:55:19 it is kind-of hard to find if you don't know where it is, but it's public 21:55:19 Aha, it's under the complete log list, got it. 21:55:23 Gregor: Special:Log/delete 21:55:48 How about Regulatory przeplywu? 21:56:30 i like that 21:56:31 I'd prefer to save the deletion log names for languages which really can't sensibly be named anything else 21:56:31 Exactly what I was about to suggest 21:56:43 In Typographical Number Theory, the only literal number is zero; other than that you use successor operation, and addition and multiplication. 21:56:45 ais523: you're not avant garde enough imo 21:56:47 przeplywu apparently means "flow" 21:56:50 ais523: Yeah, fair enough, I think we can get a real name here :) 21:56:51 regulatory flow sounds.. interesting 21:58:05 sklepu internetowety 21:58:33 Well, my suggestion still stands. Radical Ixün. 21:58:51 If I don't like where you go with the language, I may fork for Radical Ixün anyway X-D 21:59:29 what does Ixün mean? 21:59:33 Nothing. 21:59:37 "Ixün" is a play on Unix, in spite of the language having no relation to Unix whatsoever. 21:59:56 i don't like ixun 22:00:07 ais523: how about [[ais523s new grate esolang]] 22:00:32 How about BASE-IC ;) 22:00:43 I like "radixal" and "radixulous" 22:00:48 Gregor: it's not basic-like, though 22:00:55 No, but it's base-ic. 22:01:02 In that it's all about (numeric) base. 22:01:06 ais523: how about "Algol" 22:01:22 ais523: there are already multiple languages called Algol that are completely unlike each other, after all 22:01:27 BASE-IC is nice 22:06:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:08:58 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:11:28 `quote 22:11:31 531) OK, making myself emergency doctor on the advice of IRC. 22:11:49 O_O 22:12:04 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 22:12:07 ^style 22:12:08 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:12:19 oh, right, I forgot that I was going to check homestuck out 22:16:04 ^style discworld 22:16:05 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 22:16:21 531 would be better if it were rather than 22:16:42 how so? 22:17:06 you need to know Sgeo's history, really 22:17:11 GreyKnight, (that one was from that phase elliott went through of `addquoting my running commmentary on playing dwarf fortress) 22:17:24 `quote 22:17:27 475) it's the pain of the gaps argument no matter how good your robot is at feeling pain it's never close enough 22:17:38 `quote 22:17:41 720) [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. 22:17:46 `quote 22:17:49 564) lol :( 22:17:52 `quote 22:17:56 286) I use LiGNUXFCE+apps That's pronounced by saying "Linux" and then vomiting, btw. 22:17:59 `quote 22:18:03 351) Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know. 22:18:06 `quote 22:18:10 306) http://www.sessionmagazine.com/img/nature/worlds-10-smallest-animals/worlds-10-smallest-animals07.jpg worlds biggest thumb 22:18:10 that's one too many ais523 22:18:12 i'm arresting you 22:18:13 elliott: I nkow 22:18:16 it's because I was reading them 22:18:19 rather than wanting to delete one 22:18:20 what is this weird method of quoting, one quote at a time? 22:18:24 ais523: thats illegal 22:18:33 "illegal" isn't misspelt 22:18:35 you must be really angry 22:18:40 *ilgal 22:18:41 *algol 22:18:42 is this a game 22:18:45 `quote 22:18:46 GreyKnight: sort-of 22:18:48 396) such a famous bisexual Yeah, like Marlon Brando. And Caligula. And... Keeley Hawes? I feel cheated by Ashes to Ashes now. 22:18:53 every now and then we `quote five times, then delete the worst 22:18:58 in order to improve the average qdb quality 22:19:11 you need several channel regulars there to do it 22:19:15 no you don't 22:19:19 i go rogue all the time 22:19:29 well 22:19:33 i guess rules technically don't apply to me 22:19:42 Do you do it in private queries? If not it's not sufficiently rogue 22:19:45 elliott is the law 22:19:50 Deewiant: good idea 22:19:56 elliott: you count as several channel regulars by yourself 22:19:59 `quote 22:20:02 276) elliott: parents who put just "Chris" on a birth certificate are... like parents who put just "Bob" on a birth certificate. 22:20:03 elliott, ehird, alise, ehird` 22:20:05 any others? 22:20:14 alise? 22:20:16 I think all those nicks have been here enough to count as regulars 22:20:20 shachaf: yeah, alise 22:20:21 `quote alise 22:20:25 97) alise: why internet is like wtf \ 101) like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English alise: that's great filler ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 105) alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia \ 109) alise, marble marbelus \ 110) cmake is a 22:20:42 are we talking about normalising qdb nicks 22:20:46 -!- carado has joined. 22:20:49 `run head -n 1 /dev/urandom >> quotes 22:20:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:20:52 No output. 22:21:01 i have like 20+ nicks 22:21:06 hi Gregor 22:21:06 hmm, it seems keeley hawes was excessively bisexualized by the press 22:21:07 shachaf: I think it was an experiment into how people would react to a female nick 22:21:13 and most of the more obvious ones were taken 22:21:16 `revert 22:21:18 Done. 22:21:21 :( 22:21:25 `run head -n 1 /dev/urandom 22:21:27 ais523 "future elliottologist" 22:21:27 ​.C.3c|ݢU...?.1Fme۽s.&!."醞μ}.*.....*.>C;'0 22:21:31 good quote 22:21:35 what's that third character? 22:21:38 GreyKnight: you made a mistake 22:21:42 it should have been > not >> 22:21:48 elliott: misping? 22:21:50 er 22:21:53 by GreyKnight i mean Gregor 22:21:55 GreyKnight: YOU SEE 22:21:57 olsner, ? 22:21:59 `quote 22:22:00 * GreyKnight gives elliott a pair of glasses 22:22:02 24) SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! 22:22:06 `run ls 22:22:08 give me a mindreading tab 22:22:08 I say we kick GreyKnight now. 22:22:09 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 22:22:10 GreyKnight: you need a unique first two characters of your nick, really 22:22:19 AimHere must be annoyed by all my accidental /ctcp pings of him 22:22:22 when I try to see if I'm connected 22:22:44 in #nethack 22:23:01 rename GreyKnight to Qq 22:23:03 http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?805 22:23:04 /nick ᚧᚨᛒᛝᛠ 22:23:11 Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeley_Hawes#Personal_life 22:23:14 ais523: #nethack is the worst channel. 22:23:20 shachaf: there's /got/ to be worse 22:23:26 #bearcave 22:23:27 `quote 22:23:30 826) < kmc> but i mean i don't like jogging so i wouldn't like jogging while jerking off either 22:23:32 Really? 22:23:36 GreyKnight: Homophobe. 22:23:49 just because worse exists doesn't mean you have to link it 22:23:49 i think the worst quote is #ais523 22:23:55 also the worst channel? 22:24:00 (/me thinks this should be added as a new Rule of the Internet) 22:24:17 (it'd follow on neatly from rule… 36? not good at memorizing them by number) 22:24:18 ais523: Where's the radix language? On the wiki yet? Implemented yet? 22:24:30 call the radix language Gregor 22:24:34 Gregor: none of those yet 22:24:46 Gracenotes: You have to go too. 22:24:48 ais523: Finished the JIT yet? 22:24:51 urban dictionary gives me 2 contradictory definitions of rule 36 22:24:52 `quote 22:24:55 183) elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? what Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle. 22:24:55 is #bearcave a homosexuality-related channel? 22:25:26 Gregor: isn't that your job? 22:25:35 GreyKnight: Probably not on FreeNode, but classically that's used as trollbait because that's what “bear” refers to. 22:25:48 yeah, it's not in most list 22:25:49 classically i.e. non-constructively 22:25:49 *lists 22:25:54 but in the ones where it is, it's 36 22:26:05 `quote non-con 22:26:08 719) elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. That is to say, non-constructive. 22:26:11 hahaha at the history of rule 35, btw 22:26:12 (I am only familiar with it from trolling and there isn't usually much context) 22:26:37 it used to be "the exception to rule 34 is rule 34 itself", now it's effectively "violations of rule 34 will be corrected over time" 22:26:51 `quote 22:26:54 812) < oerjan> Gregor: hey no fair doing ungoogleable citations 22:27:01 there is a beautiful irony, and perhaps a deliberate reference, in this 22:27:14 GreyKnight: I'm sure if you Google something like "bear -animal -mammal" you'll find the definition that matters pretty quick ;) 22:28:05 I call rule 34 on befunge 22:28:32 calling rule 34 on things is typically a bad idea 22:28:40 ?die 1d2 22:28:40 1d2 => 2 22:28:45 (this should also be added as a rule) 22:28:46 maybe fungot could help 22:28:47 Phantom_Hoover: granny darted back, grabbed the pitcher of water from a fake buttonhole. ' no sense in rushing around the whole time! you will die for this. 22:28:55 fungus porn is pretty cool to watch if it's made right 22:28:58 that sounds... quite lewd? 22:29:06 undercrank and so on 22:29:08 `delquote 24 22:29:12 ​*poof* SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce! 22:29:20 maybe fungot's source is pornography if you look at it the right way 22:29:21 olsner: " vorbis?" he said softly. there. done it myself." 22:29:23 Porn where the characters spew markov-chain-generated sequences of words? 22:29:26 I would watch that. 22:29:28 ...fungus porn? 22:29:30 10/10 could fap 22:29:50 GreyKnight: video of the fruiting bodies doing their thang, etc 22:29:57 some fungi shoot out spores like bullets! 22:29:58 oh my 22:30:02 Bike: do you have a stalkword on rule 34? 22:30:11 a what 22:30:15 or did you just decide to unidle for the first time in ages at that exact moment? 22:30:16 * GreyKnight gets all flustered 22:30:22 Bike: you set it as a word that your IRC client notifies you about 22:30:25 wherever it's said 22:30:29 I have one on "intercal", for instance 22:30:30 lots of fungi (or maybe those are mushrooms?) have phallic shapes 22:30:31 oh. no i just like fungi 22:30:34 (only in channels you're in, obviously) 22:31:11 not sure how it would work with befunge though, i guess you could probably write something avida-like on it fairly easily 22:32:07 Bike: /please/ don't put too much thought into this 22:32:15 (I know this is a fruitless request, but I feel compelled to make it) 22:32:26 olsner: like the stinkhorn :-o 22:32:35 Brainfuck porn? wait, damn, no, that's no good 22:32:47 I don't use any set as word my IRC client notifies me about (although it does have such a command) 22:32:52 FireFly: You have to go too. 22:32:54 And Fiora 22:33:04 FireFly: it's just bricks and brains 22:33:08 ...? 22:33:21 ais523: it's not like i'm interested in fungus reproduction because i get off on it, golly, i just think it's biologically interesting 22:33:24 and alife is fun! 22:33:27 There's a new policy where the first two characters of your nick have to be unique. 22:33:28 Fiora: the "no two people can share the same first two letters of their nick" theory 22:33:48 ;-; 22:33:49 * ais523 fears they've created a meme 22:34:01 * Bike looks sidelong at boily 22:34:04 Fiora: it's OK, I don't think anyone's enforcing the policy 22:34:05 O no, it is not bricks and brains. It is Brains&Flags which is a computer game I am designing just right now even. 22:34:09 /nick shahaha 22:34:11 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 22:34:14 Fiora, just change your name to xfiora 22:34:18 or even ifora 22:34:24 Phantom_Hoover: wouldn't xfiora be a GUI version? 22:34:27 Phantom_Hoover: and I to xFireFly? 22:34:31 I could become nepetiora 22:34:46 hmm 22:34:55 Bike: an Avidafunge sounds interesting 22:34:55 would you do the :33 thing again 22:34:59 Does GNU C have the command to initialize specified element of array and make the rest zero? Can it be done with structures too? 22:35:02 can I take this as evidence in favour of the birthday paradox? 22:35:24 zzo38: yes, C99 has it; int a[100] = { [20]=4 }; 22:35:34 with structures, probably struct foo = { .bar = 12 }; 22:35:37 GreyKnight: i've ben asked to cease wondering about, sorry 22:35:39 In addition, does it support in LLVM-based C compilers? 22:35:41 fungus porn is pretty cool to watch if it's made right <-- so i guess we want a befunge program that looks like fungus porn, and i _think_ it ought to be a quine. 22:35:55 GreyKnight: guess it would kind of blur the line between cellular automata and programmin', though 22:35:57 zzo38: Yes, clang supports C99. 22:35:59 ais523: So if it is top level will it initialize the rest zero? 22:35:59 FireFly, no, you have to be zfirefly 22:36:10 zzo38: I think so 22:36:11 zzo38: Yes. 22:36:16 probably even if it isn't top level 22:36:21 what if we get more than ~1500 users in the channel?! 22:36:26 having an initializer /at all/ makes unmentoined things default to 0 22:36:30 GreyKnight: there are punctuation marks 22:36:36 although that might not be enough 22:36:42 also 26 squared is 676 22:36:52 * ais523 notices that their two criticisms cancel each other out 22:37:09 ais523, but you're implicitly disallowing different cases 22:37:10 yes I refer to myself using singular they 22:37:10 the set of punctuation marks available in nicks is rather limited, isn't it? 22:37:17 Phantom_Hoover: well my tab-complete doesn't respect case 22:37:22 /nick [o_O] 22:37:25 since presumably FireFly and Fiora clash with fizzie 22:37:32 Bike: it's taken 22:37:38 haha is it really 22:37:44 Bike: do you want me to do the :33 thing again 22:37:48 I always check that for random nick suggestions 22:37:52 36 squared is about ~1200 and I rounded up a bit to try and compensate for the punctuation 22:37:52 except when I don't 22:37:53 Wait, what is the :33 thing? 22:37:54 Fiora, i don't want you to have done it 22:37:55 no dear, that's quite alright 22:37:58 so please don't do it again 22:38:37 this conversation is somehow more surreal than average for the channel 22:38:47 someone write a BF Joust program, I understand those 22:38:49 :33 < but i am pawsitive that you would enjoy it bike 22:38:54 I like the zero-length arrays of GNU C and I think C99 is flexible array; I prefer the way zero-length arrays work, I think it is more sensible with how C work generally. 22:39:12 Fiora, consider others in the channel! 22:39:18 :33 < nepeta's patterns of sp33ch are purrfect 22:39:40 :33 < sorry, i furgot about that 22:39:47 ais523: The radix language should have no symbols other than digits (and whitespace to separate them), and should allow binary, but should have different behavior depending on the radix you write the number in X-D 22:39:56 D--> Stop. 22:40:11 Gregor: no, that would defeat the whole point 22:40:15 ais523: which of the conversations were you referring to? the fungus porn, nick prefixes, array initialization or squares of numbers conversation? 22:40:21 ais523: How so? 22:40:26 olsner: I can't actually tell them apart 22:40:27 you fungot about what? 22:40:28 FireFly: dios gave him a long time the barge was passing between high orange cliffs now, banded with so many fine daughters to bring up the subject. 22:40:31 apart from the array initialization one 22:40:36 Taneb, don't you fucking start 22:40:42 Do the LLVM C compilers allow zero-length array to be specified in GNU mode? 22:40:50 especially the squares thing, where the hell did that come from? 22:40:52 :33 < okay i will stop equius 22:40:54 ais523: Oh, I suppose it defeats the point in that the challenge is no longer figuring out how to encode a number, because you only have one or zero choices. 22:41:00 yeah 22:41:04 D--> Good. 22:41:27 augh 22:41:41 ais523: Well, you could make binary do one thing and all other radixes do something else. Basically I just don't want non-digit symbols :). I suppose the alternative is to have multiple numbers per operation. 22:41:45 Do a subleq or something. 22:41:46 -!- monqy has joined. 22:42:18 Gregor: well if you're using code-is-data, you have to be able to store an entire number in memory 22:42:29 I guess you write numbers into consecutive addresses 22:42:33 Yeah. 22:42:33 like a terminal 22:42:50 so I guess you assign commands to numbers 22:42:50 Opcodes are not a unified length, they're whitespace-separated X-D 22:42:57 for bonus points, mostly to unrepresentable numbers 22:43:01 separate with whitespace 22:43:12 Errr, unrepresentable numbers can't be stored. 22:43:18 err right 22:43:19 good point 22:43:20 I came up with a language that used only digit symbols, but it wasn't too interesting 22:43:23 representable numbers then 22:43:36 should offsets be measured in numbers or digits? 22:43:44 Do you think zero-length array is much more logical than the C99 way? I think it makes a lot more sense. And there are some more uses other than just variable-length objects. 22:43:45 Digits. 22:43:46 I guess digits 22:43:48 GreyKnight, and your ability to realise that puts you head and shoulders above every other goddamn esolang noob. 22:44:06 X-D 22:44:07 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:44:14 GreyKnight: Phantom_Hoover is particularly annoyed by people who make bad esolangs 22:44:22 It also means you can use sizeof; "Flexible array members have incomplete type, and so the sizeof operator may not be applied." 22:44:42 zzo38: a flexible member is [], isn't it, not [0]? 22:44:59 OK, someone convince me not to call this language Radixal, or I will 22:45:11 ais523: Yes. Zero-length arrays are different, and I think, more sensible than flexible arrays. 22:45:27 zzo38: but technically, you can't index more than one element past the end of them 22:45:33 GCC also permits empty structures, which I also think is good to accept, having size zero. 22:45:33 ais523: I'm not opposed to Radixal, although I do wonder to what degree the language forming in your head is similar/distinct from the one forming in mine X-D 22:45:43 I'll put it up, then 22:45:57 hmm, I think it needs the exclamation mark 22:46:07 particularly because I'm annoyed by words that end with exclamation marks 22:46:09 ais523: Well, if it is a structure then if you allocate more memory, then you could be able to index a larger size of it. 22:46:16 and it feels appropriate to give the language a name that anonys me 22:46:17 *annoys me 22:46:20 Radixal! it is 22:46:32 how about Radixal!!! 22:47:04 elliott: oh dear 22:47:07 could also call it Radixa! or RadixaI 22:47:10 that annoys meeven more, and now I want to use it 22:47:19 do you prefer it to the one-exclamation mark version? 22:47:20 radixal! 22:47:39 ais523: imo as many exclamation marks as you can stand 22:47:46 that's probably 4, then 22:47:54 a rainbow of exclamation marks 22:47:55 Radixal!!!! 22:47:57 pretty good 22:48:02 3 is the limit of what's reasonable, so 4 is too many, and 5 is not significantly different to 4 22:48:10 !!!! 22:48:12 Oh god 22:48:22 4 is the worst conceivable number. 22:48:23 more than too many is not noticeably different to too many 22:48:44 4 is a good number, too many to be comfortable yet few enough that you can get the right number of them with good reliability 22:48:51 radixal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:49:44 yeah, my brain's getting hung up on typing this, definitely 4 is the right number 22:50:08 can the coloured exclamation marks be part of the name? 22:50:29 ^rainbow Radixal!!!! 22:50:29 Radixal!!!! 22:50:42 ais523: what if i made the wiki show a random number of exclamation marks after any occurrence of "Radixal" 22:50:49 I think you could even use zero-length array as something to measure the size in order to use in a macro in order to expect the type of a variable if it is known a structure including a certain name. 22:50:56 Radixal!+ might be the first novel idea in esolangs in a year. 22:51:03 GreyKnight: for the sole purpose of requiring a note on the wiki page that it should be spelled with colors? 22:51:04 elliott: make it a random prime plz 22:51:19 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:51:24 you're a random prime tho 22:52:02 hmm, I actually think a few of the emoji characters are supposed to be displayed with colors 22:52:07 ^rainbow dash 22:52:07 dash 22:52:08 hey I'm sensitive about that :< 22:52:13 one of them even has a name involving colours 22:52:14 uncertain if that made it into unicode though 22:52:23 * oerjan swats Gregor for ignoring Fueue -----### 22:52:38 :) 22:53:04 Although the interesting bits of Fueue were unintentional 22:53:05 😻 22:53:14 one? there's many unicode characters with a colour in their name 22:53:19 IIRC there's both Green Apple and Red Apple 22:53:20 OK, so numbers that are out of the usual range for commands: should they be errors, NOPs, repeat other commands, or something else? 22:53:23 `sed -i 's/design/design and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 22:53:25 Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script-file to the commands to be executed \ --follow-symlinks 22:53:26 `run sed -i 's/design/design and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 22:53:29 sed: -e expression #1, char 32: unknown option to `s' 22:53:30 It was originally "A bit like Underload, but with numeric literals and a queue instead of two stucks" 22:53:33 *stacks 22:53:35 `run sed -i 's/design/design and deployment/' wisdom/welcome 22:53:38 No output. 22:53:39 `? welcome 22:53:42 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:53:46 `? welcome 22:53:49 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:53:50 good 22:53:52 someone, I need an opinion here! 22:53:56 or failing that, a fact 22:54:05 s/!/!!!!/ 22:54:13 ais523: they should be something radically!!!! random!!!! 22:54:22 I vote NOPS 22:54:27 s/S/s/ 22:54:30 ais523: maybe it prints something from a predefined list of phrases 22:54:35 (was that python?) 22:54:37 ais523: or reverses the program! 22:54:43 come to think of it, we could just make them ever larger-based BUT instructions 22:54:47 ais523: oh oh how about 22:54:53 GreyKnight: Python doesn't have s/// notation 22:55:00 make them do what X does in CHIQRSX9+ 22:55:04 I mean because it was Sssssss 22:55:11 this also means it's really painful to write an interpreter in anything but Perl 22:55:13 elliott: but this language is interesting to determine if it's TC another way 22:55:51 ais523: OK, then make it so that the Perl program it runs always starts with an invalid character 22:56:00 i.e. fix the shuffle 22:56:08 ais523: anyway my point is it should do something completely stupid 22:56:35 oerjan: just realised, ofc you can write a deterministic CHIQRSX9+ program that has a specific function; all one-capital-character words are legal in Perl (they return themselves), so you start with X; then write the rest of the program entirely with punctuation marks 22:56:59 (which is /totally/ possible in Perl) 22:57:01 or, hmm 22:57:13 does it rotate punctuation marks as well as letters? 22:57:13 But what if control characters? 22:57:21 I think it rotate everything. 22:57:28 elliott: I guess it should just output the numbers in question 22:57:29 sub turing { 22:57:29 srand; 22:57:29 my $lang = int rand 256; 22:57:29 my $prog = ''; 22:57:29 for (split //, $_[0]) { 22:57:31 $prog .= chr +(ord($_)+$lang & 255) 22:57:34 } 22:57:36 $_[0]=''; 22:57:37 oh 22:57:39 return $prog; 22:57:41 } 22:57:43 it's the entire ASCII range 22:57:44 ais523: output them but with "!!!!" after it 22:57:46 yeah, that could be harder 22:57:46 or maybe "!!!!!" 22:57:49 it's marginally more stupid to use one more ! for no reason 22:58:10 Output them with a number of exclamation marks equal to the number itself 22:58:20 that's not as dumb 22:59:21 gah, typoed "Radixal!!!" 22:59:36 this 4-! name is beautiful :') 23:01:29 (hmm, for wiki-technical reasons, there should be a /// dialect called ###) 23:01:31 BTW does anyone have a link to a good clear explanation of monads? I was trying to explain it recently but don't think I was very good at it :-/ 23:01:53 olsner: can we have a language called ---### 23:02:12 BTW does anyone have a link to a good clear explanation of monads? I was trying to explain it recently but don't think I was very good at it :-/ ← please tell me this line was a particularly good attempt at trolling, rather than accidental 23:02:13 oerjan will love it 23:02:29 GreyKnight: ask oerjan, maybe he'll make one 23:02:48 ais523, actual request and I don't know what you mean :-? 23:03:03 GreyKnight: monad tutorials are a meme 23:03:07 oh 23:03:08 in the Haskell community 23:03:30 I didn't know that, I am not really involved with Haskell much 23:03:38 I take it the answer is "no" then? :-P 23:03:50 tip: don't explain programming monads to someone without a functional-language-with-typeclasses-of-some-sort background 23:03:55 because it is meaningless to them 23:04:04 olsner: I think there is a /// dialect called ### but it doesn't work 23:04:08 (explaining monads the category theory concept is fine, of course, but won't really help a programmer) 23:04:19 someone *with* that background should just go read the Typeclassopedia or something 23:04:39 most of the ~monads are hard~ nonsense comes from people trying to understand monads without understanding what understanding monads is about 23:04:42 the actual abstraction is mundane 23:05:20 that's http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Typeclassopedia , right? 23:05:26 yes 23:05:35 good good 23:05:46 explaining monads-the-category-theory-concept is probably impossible for your average programmer, tbh 23:06:04 your average programmer wouldn't ask in the first place 23:06:14 "Anyway, I think those people must actually be robots because there’s no way anyone could come up with that in two seconds off the top of their head. " I like this page already 23:06:16 "monad tutorial fallacy" 23:06:17 tip 2: usually don't say "average X" 23:06:36 shachaf: should i commit something to lens. nobody has touched it in hours it feels weird. 23:06:39 the comment was running too long, i cut "inexperienced-in-typclasses" short 23:06:46 "a whole cottage industry of monad tutorials" 23:07:24 "*Any string that contains nothing but 0s and 1s, and at least I 1, is considered an error and crashes the interpreter. Although any sort of crash is acceptable and complies with the spec, we recommend segfaults, or on Windows, Blue Screens of Death." 23:07:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:07:58 by the way, BSoDs don't exist any more because they made the screen red instead >:( 23:08:36 i thought red was the xbox version 23:08:46 shachaf: DONT SAY ZIPPER BENCHMARKS 23:08:50 Is blue in ReactOS? 23:09:22 ais523: I thought both red and blue existed now 23:09:24 zipper benchmarks 23:09:31 elliott: lens? I think that's finished. 23:09:40 3.7 is the final version 23:09:46 aaaaaurgh... 10 hours straight... 23:09:56 (sorry. just had a long work day.) 23:10:01 At least an older screenshot I have seen of ReactOS shows the BSoD, so you can know that they did manage to make ReactOS at least that much. 23:10:02 shachaf: I hate the renaming of Zipper to Zipping. 23:10:08 ais523: if you're red/blue color blind, does the new screen of dead look the same as the old one? 23:10:15 screen of dead 23:10:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:10:25 "Dec 7 23:56:11 nyx kernel: [20076405.959198] psmouse.c: Mouse at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost synchronization, throwing 1 bytes away." That's a new one for me. 23:10:26 olsner: it's probably a slightly different shade of redblue 23:10:29 elliott: Why? 23:10:33 also red/blue colorblindness isn't a real sort, AFAIK 23:10:41 it's red/green, or blue/yellow, or not having color vision at all 23:11:01 shachaf: It sucks. 23:11:05 yeah, those are the two color representation channels 23:11:22 ais523: ... and here I thought I was avoiding the whole "there are 13 kinds of color blind" trap 23:12:37 huh somehow I never heard about reactos 23:12:42 or if I did I didn't know what it was 23:12:46 that is pretty interesting 23:13:22 elliott: screen of deađ? 23:13:27 it used to be called somethng else, didn't it? 23:16:46 `quote 23:16:49 581) The fighting game I prefer is the card game Yomi 23:17:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Classification 23:17:15 olsner: can we have a language called ---### <-- certainly not, that's the wrong number of -'s 23:17:25 opps 23:17:42 I didn't know there was a standard 23:17:49 oh 23:18:12 how about an audio-based language that uses R2D2 beeps and squawks. 23:19:38 -!- ared_ has joined. 23:20:01 maybe I should sleep before I get any more silly 23:20:06 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz). 23:21:41 shachaf: should i commit something to lens. nobody has touched it in hours it feels weird. <-- is it asymptotic? is lens achieving the singularity? 23:22:15 stagnation => complete rewrite 23:22:29 -!- xDEADCA7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:24:26 oerjan: do you know lens 23:24:27 it's cool 23:25:24 i got a little bit into the tutorial before my crashed 23:25:31 *+brain 23:26:30 wait which tutorial. 23:26:39 lens has first-class patterns now! 23:26:51 OKAY 23:27:18 i think it was something on github 23:27:24 elliott: Maybe prisms and lenses (and partial lenses) are the true answer to how view patterns should work. 23:27:51 * elliott would like to see -XViewLenses 23:28:04 shachaf: Sometimes you might have a view pattern whose inverse is a pain, though. 23:28:11 Like it would have to balance a tree or something. 23:29:26 is there a tutorial? 23:38:15 On what? 23:41:05 on lenses, or specifically this new lens library 23:41:27 the tutorial is looking at the types real hard 23:41:30 and then realising it's obvious 23:41:32 that's what I did 23:41:36 of course 23:41:46 olsner: here's a "quick sell" tho 23:41:53 _1 f (a,b) = (,b) <$> f a 23:41:57 _2 f (a,b) = (a,) <$> f b 23:42:11 both f (a,b) = (,) <$> f a <*> f b -- multilens! (traversal) 23:42:19 just _ Nothing = pure Nothing 23:42:28 just f (Just x) = Just <$> f x -- partial lenses! 23:42:46 (_1 :: (Functor f) => (a -> f a') -> (a,b) -> f (a',b)) 23:42:58 (both :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> (a,a) -> f (b,b)) 23:43:07 (just :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> Maybe a -> f (Maybe b)) 23:43:16 and then everything is just combinators on top of types like these 23:43:50 seems a bit like a huge library of combinators for pointless programming 23:44:07 olsner: also the cooler thing is that you can compose these with Prelude 23:44:10 and it goes in "oop order" 23:44:21 Prelude as in id and (.) on functions 23:44:38 _1.just :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f a') -> (Maybe a, b) -> f (Maybe a', b) 23:45:04 olsner: edwardk is doing a talk thing on Wednesday which will be recorded. 23:45:08 also you have things like "traverse" is a valid traversal (multilens) 23:45:14 You could watch that. 23:45:24 shachaf: talks are boring! 23:45:27 traverse :: (Traversal t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f b -- fits the pattern of both/just 23:45:32 er 23:45:34 traverse :: (Traversal t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) -- fits the pattern of both/just 23:45:38 *Traversable t 23:45:50 -!- ared_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:27 olsner: hope i've sufficiently bamboozled you 23:46:30 and maybe oerjan by proxy 23:47:38 the readme at https://github.com/ekmett/lens was a decent introduction too 23:48:33 traverse :: Traversable t => Traversal (t a) (t b) a b 23:49:22 olsner: anyway once you have all this infrastructure you can do cool things 23:49:30 like a generic type-safe zipper for any type: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/lens/3.7.0.1/doc/html/Control-Lens-Zipper.html 23:54:52 What's a non-type-safe zipper? 23:56:12 one that thingy 23:56:32 iirc pez is not "type-safe" 23:56:33 I forget how 23:59:35 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Radixal!!!! 23:59:37 tell me what you think 23:59:40 especially Gregor 2012-12-08: 00:01:05 “Although any sort of crash is acceptable and complies with the spec, we recommend segfaults, or on Windows, Blue Screens of Death.” lul 00:04:05 OK, I got to the first operation and now my head is spinning. 00:05:14 I'm not convinced that this language is implementable, since it actually has to perform the integer->digit string conversion to operate, and that operation is both incomplete and of unknown complexity. 00:05:37 ais523: nice my irc client doesn't include the !s 00:05:38 in the link 00:06:19 Radixal!!!! is an esoteric language created collaboratively by the #esoteric IRC channel on 7 December Category:2012. 00:06:55 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Radixal%21%21%21%21 00:07:28 “Radixal!!!! is not obviously either Turing-complete, or not Turing-complete” 00:07:29 Profound. 00:12:58 isn't it also a problem that integer->digit is ambiguous? 00:14:16 ok there's a specification of which is chosen... 00:15:02 I don't see how it's dififcult 00:15:12 Is it possible to go over base 10? 00:15:13 is it possible for same-length digit strings in different bases to have the same digit sum? 00:15:16 If not, just try all the bases 00:16:23 hmm, I read it as being arbitrarily large bases 00:16:26 Sgeo|web: indeed 00:16:46 olsner: "The accepted digits are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9" 00:16:50 i.e. that the source is limited to base 10, but the internal representation is arbitrary-precision 00:17:08 olsner: the base is always 1+largest digit 00:17:34 Let's say I want to encode the number eleven 00:18:15 102, isn't it 00:18:36 :t showInt 00:18:37 Integral a => a -> ShowS 00:18:39 And since "102" contains the digit for base-1, it works 00:18:43 :t showIntAtBase 00:18:44 (Integral a, Show a) => a -> (Int -> Char) -> a -> ShowS 00:18:51 Although makes sense to keep checking for smaller working strings, I think 00:19:07 Or maybe it should try in other direction, so strings would be smaller? 00:19:12 hm, 23 should work too 00:19:34 Oh, "lowest total sum of digits" hmm 00:19:46 What happens if there's a tie? 00:19:58 Oh, by shortest 00:20:13 @define radixals n = [rep | b <- [2..9], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", maximum rep == [show (b-1)]] 00:20:26 *sigh* 00:20:45 @ping 00:20:45 pong 00:20:49 i guess 102 would be the canonical version, then? 00:20:51 @define radixals n = [rep | b <- [2..9], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", maximum rep == [show (b-1)]] 00:20:53 What happens if there's a tie among shortest? 00:21:00 > radixals 11 00:21:02 Not in scope: `radixals' 00:21:07 oh 00:21:16 @let radixals n = [rep | b <- [2..9], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", maximum rep == [show (b-1)]] 00:21:17 :1:92: 00:21:17 Couldn't match expected type `Char' with actual type `[t0... 00:21:38 @let radixals n = [rep | b <- [2..9], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", [maximum rep] == show (b-1)] 00:21:40 Defined. 00:21:44 > radixals 11 00:21:46 ["1011","102","23","15"] 00:21:51 oops 00:21:53 @undefine 00:22:09 @let radixals n = [rep | b <- [3..9], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", [maximum rep] == show (b-1)] 00:22:10 Defined. 00:22:36 > radixals 432 00:22:38 ["121000","12300"] 00:23:40 Wait, how does that definition work? Is b a base (in which case where is 10) or is b a digit (in which case where is 2)? 00:24:32 I suspect that showIntAtBase takes a base 00:24:56 > radixals 1999 00:25:00 oh right 00:25:01 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:25:04 @undefine 00:25:13 @let radixals n = [rep | b <- [3..10], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", [maximum rep] == show (b-1)] 00:25:26 Defined. 00:25:29 >radixals 1999 00:25:39 space 00:25:45 bleh. 00:25:49 > radixals 1999 00:25:53 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:25:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:26:03 > radixals 1999 00:26:06 Let's radixal like it's 1999? 00:26:07 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:26:28 well this cannot possibly be hard work, so someone is abusing lambdabot elsewhere 00:26:59 Or there's just no answer 00:27:08 "1999" is the answer. 00:27:10 Oh, that would show up as [] I guess 00:27:15 Oh, derp 00:27:36 > radixals 1999 00:27:38 ["2202001","133033","30444","3717","1999"] 00:27:46 or, i guess it's not! oops. 00:28:21 2202001 has the smallest sum 00:28:25 yeah 00:28:26 oerjan: you need more exclamation marks. 00:28:30 hmm, maybe base 3 always wins 00:28:51 @let r!!!!x = radixals x 00:28:52 Defined. 00:29:08 > radixals!!!! 2012 00:29:10 nah, 5 is 11 00:29:10 ["2202112","133130","13152","5603","3734"] 00:29:13 good. 00:29:20 > radixals!!!! 5 00:29:22 ["12","5"] 00:29:34 wait, what did I do wrong... 00:29:34 11 is forbidden 00:29:38 oh. yes. silly me. 00:30:35 > radixals!!!! 8 00:30:36 ["22","8"] 00:30:55 why not 20? 00:31:11 because that's base 3 00:31:24 ~_~ 00:32:14 > radixals!!!! 11 00:32:16 i suppose it doesn't "win" if the base-3 doesn't work anyway. 00:32:16 ["102","23","15"] 00:32:18 > radixals!!!! 10 00:32:20 [] 00:32:24 so what does this do 00:32:30 oh i guess 15 in base 6 is 11? 00:32:37 i like how you can't do 10 00:32:46 yeah, some numbers aren't representable, so 00:32:52 > filter (null . radixals) [0..] 00:32:56 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 00:33:00 Bike: yeah, so the lowest possible base perhaps? 00:33:01 > radixals!!!! 9 -- i think this won't be base 3 :P 00:33:03 ["14","9"] 00:33:28 > radixals!!!! 100 00:33:30 ["10201","400"] 00:33:36 mm 00:34:05 i'm sure there must be something which doesn't give the lowest possible base 00:34:21 ISTR that the optimal base (in terms of lowest number of digits on average) is e 00:34:21 100 didn't 00:34:35 oh right 00:34:59 which is not exactly the same as the lowest digit sum, but fewer digits helps I guess 00:35:07 now i'm wondering if the tie breaker is sure to work 00:36:33 so, find two strings that have the same number of digits, the same digital sum, and are both totes radixal strings, I guess 00:36:49 indeed, "The base e is the most economical choice of radix β > 1 (Hayes 2001), where the radix economy is measured as the product of the radix and the length of the string of symbols needed to express a given range of values." 00:37:18 > [radixals!!!! n | n <- [0..]] 00:37:20 [[],[],["2"],["3"],["4"],["12","5"],["20","6"],["21","13","7"],["22","8"],[... 00:37:36 > [radixals!!!! n | n <- [9..]] 00:37:38 [["14","9"],[],["102","23","15"],["30"],["31","16"],["112","32","24"],["120... 00:38:17 > radixals!!!! 123456789 00:38:18 ["22121022020212200","13112330310111","223101104124","20130035113","3026236... 00:38:39 these are beautiful 00:38:40 > [radixals!!!! n | n <- [15..]] 00:38:42 [["120","33","17"],["121"],["122","25","18"],["200"],["201","103","34","19"... 00:38:42 olsner: what about negative bases, huh! 00:38:55 oerjan: imo define a reverse function 00:39:12 > [radixals!!!! n | n <- [19..]] 00:39:14 [["201","103","34","19"],["202","40","26"],["210","41"],["211","42"],["212"... 00:39:17 can't you just filter it to do the test for you 00:42:46 > [r' | n <- [0..], let r = radixals!!!!n; sm = minimum[sum(fromEnum r)]; r' = [s|s <- r, sum(fromEnum r) == sm]] 00:42:48 Couldn't match expected type `[a0]' 00:42:48 with actual type `GHC.Type... 00:42:55 POSSIBLY 00:44:26 > [r' | n <- [0..], let r = radixals!!!!n; sm = minimum[sum(fromEnum<$>s)|s<-r]; r' = [s|s <- r, sum(fromEnum<$>s) == sm]] 00:44:28 [[],[],["2"],["3"],["4"],["5"],["6"],["7"],["8"],["9"],[],["23"],["30"],["3... 00:45:33 that's of course wrong... 00:46:59 > radixals 742 00:47:00 looks like 2 wins about 99.2% of the first million integers 00:47:01 ["23212","10432"] 00:47:09 and only 31 of them were impossible? 00:47:33 Both sum to 5, both have a length of 5. 00:47:37 OKAY 00:47:39 sum to 10? 00:47:44 Uh, yes. 00:47:46 * oerjan relaxes 00:47:52 Five, ten; what matter. 00:48:08 well, five is 10 in base five 00:48:09 so it's all good 00:48:11 (Found by a really crummy filter, that's why I did it in private.) 00:48:11 hmm, nm, I forgot to sort by digit sum 00:48:14 ais523: your tie breaking is insufficient 00:48:34 also you're idle. 00:49:18 @tell ais523 742 has two representations ["23212","10432"] that your tie breaking won't distinguish 00:49:18 Consider it noted. 00:50:02 16:46 newtype NonEmpty f a = NonEmpty a (f a) 00:50:21 shachaf: It would be a good idea!!! 00:50:55 good newtype 00:51:21 fizzie: hey my filter was even crummier! it didn't even work! 00:51:27 That's an advanced newtype 00:51:45 if it's ambiguous it should just crash according to the same rule as binary numbers 00:51:45 Jafet: you'd think 00:52:58 oerjan: Mine only looked at cases where there were exactly two representations, and had a (\[a,b] -> ...) in it. :/ 00:53:19 fancy 00:53:31 fizzie: I bet you could use: LENS. 00:53:39 The opposite of fancy, I'd say. 00:54:19 elliott: could you educate fizzie on the meaning of OKAY, fancy and shocking plz? 00:54:34 ais523: I missed any/everything since my initial comments, but I don't see any reply by you, sooooooo. 00:54:43 understanding them yourself is optional. 00:55:19 oerjan: OKAY. 00:55:37 good, good 00:55:46 (hm you might want to add that one) 00:55:48 Gregor: what will you call your competitor for Radixal!!!!? 00:56:14 olsner: Radical Ixün 00:56:50 Californ Ixün 00:59:24 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:59:31 > [n | n <- [0..], null(radicals!!!!n)] 00:59:34 Is there any 3D modeling that you can write x^2+y^2+z^2=25 and it will work? 00:59:34 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 00:59:34 It is a member of the hidden pack... 00:59:40 wat 00:59:41 try POV-Ray's isofunctions 00:59:50 > [n | n <- [0..], null(radicals!!!!n)] 00:59:51 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 00:59:51 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:00:00 the hidden pack...! 01:00:12 the big conspiracy 01:00:13 > [n | n <- [0..], []==radicals!!!!n] 01:00:14 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:00:14 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:00:15 i don't remember if the old Mac OS graphing calculator could do that 01:00:22 it was pretty sweet though 01:00:27 > radixals!!!!10 01:00:28 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:00:28 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:00:31 ic 01:00:36 SABOTAGE 01:01:37 oerjan: I blame shachaf personally 01:02:12 > let radixals=undefined;_!!!!n = [rep | b <- [3..10], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", [maximum rep] == show (b-1)] in [n | n <- [0..], []==radicals!!!!n] 01:02:13 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:02:13 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:02:17 @undefine 01:02:20 > let radixals=undefined;_!!!!n = [rep | b <- [3..10], let rep = showIntAtBase b intToDigit n "", [maximum rep] == show (b-1)] in [n | n <- [0..], []==radicals!!!!n] 01:02:21 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:02:22 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:02:33 > 2+2 01:02:34 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:02:34 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:02:42 was afraid of that 01:02:46 @undefine 01:02:52 > 2+2 01:02:53 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:02:53 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:03:03 your complaint has been relayed. 01:03:08 GreyKnight: i think lambdabot is seriously broken at the moment 01:03:36 hmm, these numbers are not entirely without patterns (nonradixals in the first 100000): [10,36,37,40,81,82,85,256,280,20776,27216,27217,27300,27301] 01:03:39 > 0 01:03:40 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:03:40 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:03:56 Perhaps a tiny bit 01:04:33 GreyKnight: a quantum amount 01:04:49 > Data.Monoid.Lens 01:04:49 :t 0 01:04:50 Num a => a 01:04:50 Could not find module `Data.Monoid.Lens' 01:04:50 It is a member of the hidden pack... 01:05:48 olsner: hm a lot at about 27000 01:05:57 olsner: not in OEIS (is it interesting enough to submit?) 01:09:29 fungot, sing me to sleep 01:09:30 GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord 01:09:41 This is not a very good song 01:09:58 a number is radixal if it's expressible as a number in radixal? 01:10:30 Surprisingly few numbers that can't be represented that way 01:10:37 is this that radix thing someone mentioned 01:10:42 ^style 01:10:42 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:10:59 Phantom_Hoover: yes this is the radix thing that's been going on for half an hour 01:11:01 * FireFly wonders if Discworld contains lots of URIs 01:11:23 ^style europarl 01:11:24 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 01:11:31 fungot: write me a poem 01:11:32 FireFly: to not be a radixal, a numbers representation in each base 3-10 must not contain the largest digit in the base. 01:11:34 FireFly: mr president, tomorrow' s vote. i would thus like to see the israeli soldier who has been suspended and the foreign minister, mr michel stated that the council is unwilling to apply the consensus and conciliatory approach that characterize this parliament to draw up a policy to boost economic growth and employment, mark a step in the right direction. 01:11:37 *'s 01:11:46 fizzie: nice leak 01:12:00 fizzie: I think there might be a tiny bug in the discworld style 01:12:14 that gets harder and harder as the numbers get larger 01:12:43 "Whoops." 01:12:59 Yeah, they're from elinks -dump or something. 01:14:26 `addquote fungot, sing me to sleep GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord This is not a very good song 01:14:28 oerjan: mr president-in-office, not allied forces, mr president-in-office, two initiatives: the french, the belgians and the irish referendum and that is to say, ' mary, you are preparing to vote for or against a government in any case, all pay merits work. this situation cannot be allowed to increase under any circumstances, be resolved without difficulty. slovenia has proved particularly mature in its consensual and moderate 01:14:30 864) fungot, sing me to sleep GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord This is not a very good song 01:14:43 `quote 01:14:43 `quote 01:14:44 `quote 01:14:44 `quote 01:14:44 `quote 01:14:49 Now my shame is immortal. :/ 01:15:04 499) That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.) The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. 01:15:05 yay I'm internet famous 01:15:50 57) actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge 01:15:50 845) But let's ignore the fact that i doesn't exist. Is it even or odd? 01:15:50 718) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. 01:15:51 527) well, oerjan has a lot of opinions on this, so I'll hand it over to him 01:16:35 oerjan: bleh, I meant to put a tiebreak on the tiebreak, but forgot 01:16:35 ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:16:37 I'll do that now 01:17:10 I don't know if I get a vote, but if so, rm 718 01:17:19 it's tiebreaks all the way down! 01:17:34 i vote against that 01:17:35 GreyKnight, that quote from me was a continuous chess joke btw 01:17:40 imo 527 or 718 01:17:50 and you want it removed :( 01:17:52 ARGH 01:17:54 `quote imo 01:18:01 7) TODO: sex life \ 436) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 01:18:16 `quote emo 01:18:19 249) gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult \ 284) elliott: I doubt water memory can last for even one second in a gravitational field (or even outside of a gravitational field), but other people think they can make water memory with telephones. \ 358) You have no idea how desperately I want to avoid being a GC guy :P Every year I go to ISMM 01:18:21 @messages 01:18:21 oerjan said 29m 3s ago: 742 has two representations ["23212","10432"] that your tie breaking won't distinguish 01:18:32 * ais523 adds tiebreak to tiebreak 01:18:52 what if you used the redundant representations to express the inexpressable numbers. 01:18:56 are there enough :D 01:19:20 elliott: profound :) 01:19:27 but the inexpressable numbers are the whole point 01:19:29 I didn't know I was supposed to @tell X_X 01:19:32 do you like my output method, btw? 01:19:45 it can't do prime codepoints, nor certain nonprime codepoints either 01:19:45 * elliott looks 01:19:45 I'm not convinced that this language is implementable, since it actually has to perform the integer->digit string conversion to operate, and that operation is both incomplete and of unknown complexity. 01:19:48 fine, 527 is worse 01:19:48 there are like 7 bases left over for each representable number 01:20:00 `delquote 527 01:20:02 wtf lag 01:20:04 ​*poof* well, oerjan has a lot of opinions on this, so I'll hand it over to him 01:20:13 ais523: that is pretty good except (a) you forgot a ")" (b) it doesn't involve ! 01:20:27 but making cat impossible is very cool and stupid 01:20:34 you can make an approximate cat 01:20:34 Gregor, the operation is clearly doable fairly easily, so what does complexity have to do with it? The language might be slow? 01:20:41 which chooses similar-looking codepoints 01:20:43 well, probably 01:21:13 Call it kitten 01:21:18 -!- greyooze has joined. 01:21:26 Gregor: it's complete, there's no way to come up with an unrepresentable number 01:21:32 because all the numbers are generated by converting back from digit strings 01:21:38 Ohyeah X-D 01:21:46 Phantom_Hoover: hm okay that context makes it better 01:21:47 and if they're strings of 0s and 1s, we add an extra non-0 non-1 digit at the start 01:21:50 (continuous chess covers a multitude of sins) 01:22:16 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:22:17 continuous sin chess? 01:22:31 I imagine there aren't many unrepresentable numbers as you get higher up 01:22:39 they'd have to be represented only with 0s and 1s in /every/ base 01:22:39 I guess the operation isn't that difficult, too… just go from base 10 down and choose whichever one works, if any. 01:22:43 from 3 to 10 01:22:56 `quote 01:22:57 `quote 01:22:57 `quote 01:22:58 `quote 01:22:58 `quote 01:23:01 yeah, you basically only need to convert it to 8 different bases then compare 01:23:08 Gregor: yes. If you've been paying attention, we implemented it and played with it quite a bit 01:23:11 756) haters gonna make som valid points 01:23:15 ais523: how about extending it to arbitrary bases instead of only going to base 10? 01:23:17 Sgeo|web: I haven't ;) 01:23:22 * elliott seconds olsner 01:23:26 I was driving, making a phone call, ... 01:23:28 ais523: olsner found a surprising number just above 27000 01:23:41 also, I thought 527 was kind of funny because elliott is calling someone else opinionated ;-) 01:23:41 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 01:23:43 > 0 01:23:44 0 01:23:51 517) Hmm, I really need to institute dwarven birth control. 01:23:51 Grey Ooze? 01:23:52 > product[1..10] 01:23:53 3628800 01:23:54 GreyKnight: it makes more sense in context 01:23:54 -!- Gregor has changed nick to TheSmooze. 01:23:55 The Smooze! 01:23:58 434) ais523, how are we supposed to guess before you tell us unless you give us more hints? 01:23:58 830) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday 01:23:59 110) cmake is a nuclear powered waffle iron powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment and it burns one of the waffles and doesn't touch the other. 01:24:06 > foldl1' lcm[1..10] 01:24:07 2520 01:24:10 434 is not funny 01:24:18 hm it's not that then 01:24:22 the cornballer! 01:24:29 830 and 110 are both good 01:24:39 I don't really like 517 or 756 01:24:54 although 756 is better out of those 01:25:08 they'd have to be represented only with 0s and 1s in /every/ base <-- no, just not use the largest digit of the base 01:25:09 434 is there to mock vorpal more or less 01:25:19 imo 517 01:25:51 So, the tiebreaker should choose the shortest (first priority), lowest base (second priority), yes? 01:26:04 517 or 434 01:26:22 `delquote 517 01:26:29 also, I thought 527 was kind of funny because elliott is calling someone else opinionated ;-) <-- no the joke is i don't have any opinions 01:26:31 ​*poof* Hmm, I really need to institute dwarven birth control. 01:26:32 someone who hasn't been around Vorpal can't vote on mocks of him, of course 01:26:45 oerjan: the joke is mainly the person I was getting to talk to you. 01:26:50 I met Vorpal a little bit in #feather-lang 01:26:53 `quote 01:26:54 `quote 01:26:54 `quote 01:26:54 `quote 01:26:55 `quote 01:26:57 `quote monqy 01:27:03 GreyKnight, we're sincerely sorry 01:27:09 226) gah, why does lose keep winning? 01:27:10 287) I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. \ 324) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup \ 327) `quote django 01:27:25 it wasn't that bad, maybe I didn't get the full experience :-? 01:27:39 Vorpal stopped being bad and started being boring so now we grudgingly accept his presence 01:27:45 @tell Vorpal hi was just talking about you today!! 01:27:45 Consider it noted. 01:27:49 thought he was in the channel but in fact he wasn't 01:27:51 TheSmooze: yes 01:27:53 a shame 01:27:54 802) I couldn't survive an apocalypse. I don't even have any bitcoins. 01:27:54 454) So it's like... Rummy mixed with... breakout? 01:27:54 659) i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" 01:27:54 424) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 01:27:59 and zeroth priority is lowest sum of digits 01:28:05 basically, because it's harder to game than other tiebreaks would be 01:28:13 when was I funny enough to come up with 802 01:28:18 this must be some other elliott 01:28:23 802 is indeed funny 01:28:27 misattributed quote? 01:28:29 and indeed out of character for you 01:28:38 `pastlog survive an apocalypse.*bitcoins 01:28:50 let's hope it hits the original quote, rather than the addquote 01:28:58 `pastelog survive an apocalypse.*bitcoins 01:29:04 I like the recommended rejection method for binary numbers in Radixal programs 01:29:17 No output. 01:29:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8553 01:29:37 and zeroth priority is lowest sum of digits // I don't like this 01:29:40 anyway i like all thoes quotes 01:29:44 maybe 454 is worst? 01:29:48 659 is probably bad but it amuses me 01:29:57 let's keep them all 01:30:06 I don't know why 454 is funny, but it is 01:30:07 `quote 01:30:07 `quote 01:30:07 Because then we acknowledge that unrepresentable numbers exist. 01:30:07 `quote 01:30:07 `quote 01:30:08 `quote 01:30:15 Since they might be the sum of digits. 01:30:22 309) Grr. Why does it exist? Why can't I kill it? 01:30:26 659 is bad 01:30:30 TheSmooze: it's fine to acknowledge that, we acknowledge them on input too 01:30:37 monqy: well it looks like an innuendo 01:30:39 except it isn't 01:30:43 no it doesn't........ 01:30:43 that's inherently funny 01:31:06 monqy; hi 01:31:08 697) [...] we choose only die fittest people of nigeria [...] 01:31:11 373) elliott: actually, it's worse right now, I'm in the USA where the solution to counterfeiting problems is "add more ink" eventually all US bills will just be solid green 01:31:12 86) I don't know that I've ever heard apocalypi described in terms of depth ... 01:31:12 719) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN 01:31:19 I don't see how it looks like an innuendo either TBH 01:31:25 btw, we've deleted approximately 31 quotes over approximately the last 6 months 01:31:41 the `pastelog shows the quote number decreasing 01:31:42 that's ... not a lot 01:31:43 `quote cheater 01:31:50 No output. 01:31:55 @quote cheater 01:31:55 cheater says: and i'm kinda like an ad-hoc dr phil. 01:31:56 how many have we added in the same time? 01:32:00 i think we deleted all of cheater's quotes 01:32:04 373 is good 01:32:05 (because he isn't funny) 01:32:09 maybe we should get pizza and have a deletion party :> 01:32:10 @quote cheater 01:32:11 cheater says: drupal is a bit like working with the facebook api while someone keeps dropping concussion grenades in your office 01:32:20 IMO 697 01:32:23 ais523: but quotes higher than that one won't show up as part of that quote's decrease 01:32:23 it's not very good for a fungot quote 01:32:25 elliott: i welcome the initiative that has been developed mainly to fill the jobs in our countries are too reliant on connections to russia, but to the level of youth unemployment. in this connection, i should also like to congratulate the irish presidency for the clarification it has given before, is discrimination, because it allows people to enter the european union 01:32:25 elliott: agreed 01:32:29 `delquote 697 01:32:33 ​*poof* [...] we choose only die fittest people of nigeria [...] 01:32:33 Sgeo|web: that's why "approximately" 01:32:39 ais523: you could just look at `help 01:32:42 or even hg log inside the vm 01:32:43 `quote 01:32:44 `quote 01:32:44 `quote 01:32:45 `quote 01:32:47 697 or 309 (might be funnier with context) 01:32:47 `quote 01:32:55 hm I was too slow! 01:32:55 195) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) 01:32:55 @quote neutrino 01:32:55 No quotes match. My mind is going. I can feel it. 01:32:56 190) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious 01:32:57 @quote neutrino_ 01:32:57 No quotes match. Have you considered trying to match wits with a rutabaga? 01:33:21 394) pikhq, living in the future sucks. The past just keeps coming up to us and trying to make us feel guilty. 01:33:21 479) now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him 01:33:24 190) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious 01:33:33 190 is there twice! 01:33:38 has this ever happened before, and do we have rules for it? 01:33:46 delete it twice 01:33:57 but 191 might be really good 01:33:58 we could draw another quote, but then we've broken the rule of five 01:34:05 How many quotes are there? 01:34:11 `quote 191 01:34:13 gasp 01:34:14 191) The Perl script is probably slower than the Befunge code. 01:34:19 `addquote How many quotes are there? 01:34:22 862) How many quotes are there? 01:34:23 `revert 01:34:24 `delquote 862 01:34:24 861 01:34:26 Done. 01:34:46 ​*poof* How many quotes are there? 01:34:50 (this is /totally/ the official way to count quotes) 01:34:55 `qc 01:34:58 861 quotes 01:34:59 `run hi 01:35:03 hi 01:35:04 `quote fungot 01:35:04 FireFly: mr president, you are right, mr president! the pensioners' party, who have been, so to speak, i will try to prevent this eventuality, they want to do together. 01:35:08 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 15) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 17) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 62) 01:35:10 `hi monqy 01:35:11 ais523: but you got a race condition on the number! 01:35:14 hi 01:35:17 01:33:38 has this ever happened before, and do we have rules for it? 01:35:22 the rule is to start from scratch I think 01:35:30 `quote 01:35:30 `quote 01:35:30 OK, that's a sensible rule 01:35:30 `quote 01:35:30 `quote 01:35:31 `quote 01:35:33 `quote 01:35:35 delete the quote database and start over? 01:35:36 `quote 01:35:36 The pensioners' party want to do together :-o Try to prevent that eventuality, fungot! 01:35:37 GreyKnight: mr president, i too handled asbestos when making and connecting pipes and tubing. in retrospect, i probably consumed incredible amounts of fibres, threads and cloth and also the rapporteur's proposed resolution, i should like to ask you whether, in the past. 01:35:38 `quote 01:35:39 shachaf: stop botspamming 01:35:41 `quote 01:35:51 437) in the title of the page it says "Well-Typed - The Haskell Consultants" but i want to know who are the haskell conraisins? 01:35:59 469) anyway, notational systems are a function of the euclidean plane 01:36:35 `welcome shachaf 01:36:51 437 is not a good pun and it even doesn't work 01:36:59 it's good i like it A+ 01:37:01 anyway 01:37:01 `quote 01:37:02 `quote 01:37:02 `quote 01:37:05 `quote 01:37:07 `quote 01:37:24 I think we have like 15 `quotes queued now 01:37:39 682) Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. I... think we might have found the wrong one. 01:37:42 314) i know it's unusual, but i agree with you both to some extent 01:37:43 276) elliott: parents who put just "Chris" on a birth certificate are... like parents who put just "Bob" on a birth certificate. 01:37:55 201) LoTR actually compresses pretty well into a film; the large amount of description becomes unnecessary. LotR would compress pretty well into a book; the large amount of description *is* unnecessary. 01:37:57 shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:38:05 438) If in some day, I publish some book, that might include some of the programs I have written too, but also some other books, possibly. However I never yet publish any book. 01:38:11 36) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 01:38:14 127) Why shouldn't I just do everything in non-Microsoft-specific C#? it's like trying to write non-IE-specific JavaScript with only Microsoft documentation and only IE to test on 01:38:15 ais523: oh, it throttled 01:38:26 `echo q 01:38:31 @yarr 01:38:31 Swab the deck! 01:38:41 Why can't HackEgo be more like lambdabot? 01:38:47 `run uname -a 01:38:53 @botsnack 01:38:53 :) 01:38:55 q 01:38:56 shachaf: why can't it be more like, say, heptagram or nickserv, too? 01:39:01 finally 01:39:02 `quote 01:39:02 `quote 01:39:02 `quote 01:39:03 `quote 01:39:05 `quote 01:39:12 282) [After a long monologue] i think i have to escape this heated discussion before it becomes a flamewar 01:39:13 ais523: All good questions. 01:39:17 why can't hackego be more like shachaf 01:39:27 monqy: did you learn lens yet 01:39:29 Sometimes I suspect zzo38 of being a bot 01:39:31 808) Sleep on the ceiling next Sunday. 01:39:35 GreyKnight: he isn't 01:39:42 -!- Bike has left. 01:39:44 do we know for sure? 01:39:47 424) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. 01:39:47 zzo38 is reasonably hard to imitate, although you can imitate him if you want to anyway 01:39:49 529) OK, making myself emergency doctor on the advice of IRC. 01:39:54 EgoBot: did you learn lens yet? 01:39:57 185) Oh. Stuff that uses actual physical numbers stemming from science. Bleh *gets bored* 01:40:01 172) well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy and i own a piano and i'm not wearing socks 01:40:12 @tell bike we miss you 01:40:13 Consider it noted. 01:40:28 449) Sgeo_, the origin of suffering is desire for e-book readers. 01:40:29 EgoBot: I miss you, too! 01:40:35 Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux 01:40:35 EgoBot: where are you? 01:40:46 851) `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric thank you You're welcome. 01:40:47 340) How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! I have the weirdest boner right now. 01:40:47 36) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 01:41:13 TheSmooze: kill HackEgo plz 01:41:16 or we will never get it synchronised 01:41:19 851 actually made me laugh out loud (in real life) 01:41:29 mostly because of the , admittedly 01:41:51 340 is the worst there 01:41:53 it just isn't funny 01:41:58 `echo im done 01:42:01 good, because that was the funny part of it 01:42:06 im done 01:42:12 elliott: it might not be 01:42:17 remember it's asynchronous 01:42:20 `echo im really reallydone 01:42:22 @@ @echo @echo @echo @echo 01:42:23 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo @echo @ 01:42:23 echo"]} rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\" 01:42:23 :@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo\"]} rest:\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\"freenode\\\", msgLBName = \\\"lambdabot\\\", msgPrefix = \\\"shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf\\\", msgCommand = \\\" 01:42:23 PRIVMSG\\\", msgParams = [\\\"#esoteric\\\",\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo\\\"]} rest:\\\"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \\\\\\\"freenode\\\\\\\", msgLBName = \\\\\\\"lambdabot\\\\\\\", msgPrefix 01:42:23 = \\\\\\\"shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf\\\\\\\", msgCommand = \\\\\\\"PRIVMSG\\\\\\\", msgParams = [\\\\\\\"#esoteric\\\\\\\",\\\\\\\":@@ @echo @echo @echo @echo\\\\\\\"]} rest:\\\\\\\"\\\\\\ 01:42:23 im really reallydone 01:42:25 \"\\\"\"" 01:42:30 340 is bad 01:42:43 I think lambdabot just threw up 01:42:47 shachaf............................................ 01:42:49 okay i will assume HackEgo synchronised up now 01:42:50 `quote 01:42:50 `quote 01:42:51 `quote 01:42:51 `quote 01:42:53 `quote 01:42:56 but 340 01:42:58 Uhh. What does @@ do? 01:42:59 can I delete 340 anyway? 01:43:01 179) That is the mark of Gregor right there. tswett: except that Gregor didn't write that It's still the mark of Gregor. 01:43:03 ais523: sure 01:43:07 @help @ 01:43:07 @ [args]. 01:43:08 monqy: what 01:43:08 @ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used. 01:43:08 The commands are right associative. 01:43:08 For example: @ @pl @undo code 01:43:08 is the same as: @ (@pl (@undo code)) 01:43:28 @help @@ 01:43:28 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:43:31 elliott: we'll delete it once this quoteset happens 01:43:37 so as not to get confused about the numbers 01:43:39 ais523: if it ever happens 01:43:48 19) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once 01:43:51 140) Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible) 01:43:53 675) The book "Science Made Stupid" ends with a list of things that might happen in the future (some already have), one of them is a woman president. Some things in the list are reasonable but a few are just funny instead. 01:43:53 615) anyway fungot is the only esolang irc bot I know of that doesn't depend on nethack or a similar helper 01:43:56 there it is 01:44:00 `delquote 340 01:44:09 ... 01:44:10 ​*poof* How to make a tasty deep-fried treat: 1) Buy ingredients: Large vat of boiling oil, dry ice and a small Filipino boy. 2) Place Filipino boy in dry ice until frozen solid. 3) Shatter now-frozen Filipino boy into boiling oil. 4) Wait fifteen minutes, drain and enjoy! I have the weirdest boner right now. 01:44:13 OK, 614 is good 01:44:13 ais523: now we'll just get confused about the numbers in this batch 01:44:17 I won't! 01:44:27 i'll just use the old numbers to talk about them 01:44:32 I don't really get 674 01:44:33 140 is really good 01:44:42 hmm, it's about middle for fungot, IMO 01:44:43 ais523: mr president, the aim of which is to issue a statement making it absolutely clear: wood is an industrial commodity under community law. 01:44:52 ais523: it's "acts 16:31 your bible" that makes it 01:45:00 like it says some crap and can't even think of a proper citation 01:45:06 OK 01:45:22 ^style irc 01:45:23 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 01:45:24 19 is not really out of character for bsmntbombdood, so I don't see why the alternate universe is required 01:45:39 you can't really delete 19 01:45:43 It's part of a series I think 01:45:44 178 is quite funny 01:45:45 without also deleting 10 other classic quotes or so 01:45:47 yes 01:45:51 deleting 1 01:46:00 I don't personally like 615 that much 01:46:05 675 isn't that great either tho 01:46:06 I'd delete 674, I think 01:46:32 I'll let you 01:46:36 can't delete a zzo quote personally 01:46:41 `delquote 674 01:46:41 or 614? 01:46:44 ​*poof* The book "Science Made Stupid" ends with a list of things that might happen in the future (some already have), one of them is a woman president. Some things in the list are reasonable but a few are just funny instead. 01:46:48 I like 614 01:46:57 the thing with fungot and zzo quotes 01:46:57 ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:47:07 is that those people say a lot of good quotable things 01:47:11 like that one, for instance 01:47:15 fungot does not approve of quote game 01:47:15 GreyKnight: down comforter! vectors are no match for " fnord 01:47:26 and yet people sometimes quote the bad ones instead :( 01:47:35 `quote 01:47:35 `quote 01:47:36 `quote 01:47:36 `quote 01:47:36 `quote 01:47:43 @quote 01:47:44 companion_cube says: why bother with complicated abstractions like monads, when you can enjoy the taste of the sun on your skin? 01:47:47 `addquote [after a session of saying five quotes and deleting one] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:47:48 ais523: in this case is a huge installed base out there, whatever it's failings? :) i'm implementing the rabin-miller strong pseudoprime test, etc. 01:47:50 10) 11 holes for me :D 01:48:00 ais523: "saying"? 01:48:00 860) [after a session of saying five quotes and deleting one] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:48:05 err, right 01:48:09 `delquote 860 01:48:13 `addquote [after a session of requesting five quotes and deleting one] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:48:14 ais523: this sucks. eval evaluates my sexp on top level. no such semantics exists. cps is inherently a monadic entity. if you 01:48:22 ​*poof* [after a session of saying five quotes and deleting one] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:48:41 how about just "after a quote deletion session" 01:48:47 hmm, OK 01:48:48 That is seriously shockingly coherent for fungot 01:48:49 Sgeo|web: and the smooth stream in smoother numbers fnord that hasn't come up one single time i try i get new messages.) to google, some eileen cohen died last may. 01:48:54 but I'm really confused about the async dependencies now 01:48:56 565) if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all 01:48:56 678) Here in Scotland we have a rigorous and well-tested theory of brothels. 01:48:58 399) Dear eHow: Please don't assume that my toilet works like that Or, at least, my toilet looks different 01:48:58 778) 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker. 01:49:09 861) [after a session of requesting five quotes and deleting one] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:49:16 haha, it's 861 as well 01:49:17 10 is a bit boring 01:49:18 as expected 01:49:22 `delquote 860 01:49:28 No output. 01:49:30 `delquote 860 01:49:33 No output. 01:49:36 that didn't work 01:49:38 need to wait a bit 01:49:43 no, it did 01:49:52 the conflict was resolved the correct way after all 01:49:57 if I add another quote now it'll be 860 01:50:08 `addquote [after a quote deletion session] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:50:09 ais523: why not? is there a way to transmit any information between two numbers, and outputs a scheme program. in this case 01:50:11 860) [after a quote deletion session] ais523: i just checked, and the whole purpose of this is not necessary.... 01:50:14 se 01:50:16 *see 01:50:19 ais523: well it is meant to say *poof* 01:50:23 your delquotes actually did nothing 01:50:24 it did 01:50:27 for the first delquote 01:50:31 01:49:22 `delquote 860 01:50:32 01:49:28 No output. 01:50:32 01:49:29 `delquote 860 01:50:32 01:49:33 No output. 01:50:38 those were the second and third 01:50:40 anyway let's start again 01:50:41 `quote 01:50:42 `quote 01:50:42 `quote 01:50:42 `quote 01:50:44 `quote 01:50:49 which were intended to do nothing if the conflict went the right way 01:50:52 62) i am sad ( of course by analogy) :) smileys) 01:50:53 and to fix it if it went the wrong way 01:50:54 108) [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine 01:51:00 OK, 62 is funny 01:51:09 108 is also quite good 01:51:18 754) and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 01:51:18 I can imagine fungot proudly standing over its bread machine 01:51:19 ais523: it does... on edwin it doesn't for me. i could case me through it, with which i'm unfamiliar? 01:51:21 108 is better than 62 I think 01:51:24 359) The eigenratio of reality has to be enormous, though. 01:51:25 agreed 01:51:26 382) " Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P 01:51:38 754 is good, and I still want to know the solution to that 01:51:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:48 382 is not very good 01:51:51 agreed 01:51:53 agreed 01:51:54 I was going to say 382 too 01:52:02 so I will 01:52:04 382 01:52:08 `delquote 382 01:52:12 ​*poof* " Damn right!" wouldn't be much of a quote :P 01:52:12 I kind of want to know the solution to 754 as well :-o 01:52:12 How does a color have free will? 01:52:14 `quote 01:52:14 `quote 01:52:15 `quote 01:52:15 `quote 01:52:15 `quote 01:52:23 (also, the question) 01:52:26 Sgeo|web: if there's a human controlling what it does 01:52:27 721) Quinary computers replace the cache with a quiche. 01:52:37 GreyKnight: this is related to elliottcraft 01:52:37 ohh 01:52:54 = minecraft + elliott - mine ? 01:53:07 silly humans thinking they have free wil 01:53:11 771) Very much like "cen" is Latin for "horse", "yak" is Latin for "yak". 01:53:11 354) I think I managed something like a one-expression increment that was only a few hundred characters long 01:53:14 385) elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ 01:53:14 which is, basically, something I've been inventing which has a very slight resemblance to minecraft, and also a slight resemblance to Rubicon 01:53:19 89) I perceived it so hard I actually went away :O 01:53:28 and is named after elliott rather than me because it's rare to name personal projects after someone else 01:53:59 those are all good IMO 01:54:01 well, I like minecraft, rubicon, and Life, so this can only lead to good things 01:54:13 i request monqy's vote 01:54:14 yeah 01:54:19 it doesn't hurt my head nearly as much as Feather 01:54:28 it's just "this is too big a task for me", rather than "ouch stop thinking about it" 01:55:28 elliott: idk but what's a mouse obeying the law of the excluded middle supposed to mean 01:55:38 monqy: that's a good question 01:55:39 should we find out 01:55:53 monqy: it means that either the mouse, or not the mouse 01:55:54 no exceptions 01:56:01 `pastlog elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ 01:56:10 WHAT'S WITH PASTLOG? 01:56:22 * Sgeo|web shoves an e into everyone 01:56:28 Sgeo|web: it's like `log except not today 01:56:30 hi 01:56:30 pastlog 01:56:30 is a command 01:56:39 pastlog and pastelog both being commands is annoying 01:56:39 No output. 01:56:42 @quote cheater 01:56:42 cheater says: drupal is a bit like working with the facebook api while someone keeps dropping concussion grenades in your office 01:56:42 @quote cheater 01:56:43 cheater says: let's all just delete haskell from our hdds and drink mercury 01:56:43 @quote cheater 01:56:43 because one looks like a typo for the other 01:56:43 cheater says: and i'm kinda like an ad-hoc dr phil. 01:56:43 @quote cheater 01:56:44 cheater says: every time kmc trolls, i troll through his actions. 01:56:44 @quote cheater 01:56:44 cheater says: let's all just delete haskell from our hdds and drink mercury 01:56:46 also pastlog often doesn't work 01:56:49 It's a command that hasn't worked the times I saw it tried to be used 01:56:50 should call it pastalog or passedlog 01:56:56 due to hackego timing out 01:57:08 shachaf: please stop bot abusing 01:57:24 What's the difference? 01:57:24 -!- greyooze has joined. 01:57:26 there's a difference between running commands because the output is interesting / aids a conversation 01:57:32 and also: the first #esoteric meeting ever <-- that's really never happened? 01:57:33 and running commands to try to spam the channel to make a point 01:57:46 greyooze: it almost did 01:57:57 that time when fizzie was a train 01:58:08 that is the log I am quoting from 01:58:42 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:58:52 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 01:58:59 `pastelogs elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ 01:59:12 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27584 01:59:32 there's some continued discussion later on about other people here who have actually met 01:59:45 `logurl 2011-07-01 01:59:47 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-07-01 01:59:48 I think it was concluded that none of those meetings were #esoteric meetings 02:00:03 elliott: it seems to have been mostly out of context 02:00:15 hm 02:00:25 `quote meeting 02:00:28 202) 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. HAHA [...] this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something 02:00:30 apparently the context is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu6lgNgAH38 o rsomething 02:00:37 i have not watched this video 02:00:40 i wonder if it is worth watching??? 02:00:47 it's hard to know 02:00:48 preliminary observations suggest no 02:01:01 hmm 02:01:07 I remember a particularly frustrating argument in another channel 02:01:18 `quote 02:01:18 `quote 02:01:18 `quote 02:01:18 `quote 02:01:18 `quote 02:01:20 I think context is actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myfZ8hmmApE ? 02:01:21 `quote 02:01:22 where I was trying to explain that I could have a good idea that something wasn't worth watching without watching it 02:01:24 fuck 02:01:24 monqy: haskell supports uml though 02:01:26 i accidentally did one too many 02:01:31 well let's just ignore the last one 02:01:36 `unquote 02:01:38 483) I MIGHT BECOME GHOST 02:01:44 Wait, no, firs tlinked video makes more sense 02:01:49 602) You know what annoys me about Deep Space 9. It wasn't in deep space. It was orbiting Bajor. 02:01:59 * ais523 wonders if YouTube has a "random video" button 02:02:02 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unquote: not found 02:02:04 Google needs a "random webpage" button 02:02:22 Yeah, context is the Iu6 02:02:26 obviously Bajor is in deep space 02:02:38 830) My latest FB post: The worst part of floating point math is not the fact that 0.1 + 0.2 yields 0.30000000000000004, but trying to explain to people why their language is horribly broken if 0.1 + 0.2 does NOT yield 0.30000000000000004. 02:02:40 well so is Earth, right? 02:02:43 405) Deewiant: Well, I guess you could argue so. But to me a it's not a real clobbering if you can still tell there was something that got clobbered. 02:02:43 464) You realise the micromanagement it took to make quintopia encrust my silver throne with emeralds rather than a jug? 02:02:47 152) dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 152 is awesome 02:03:10 hmm, earth isn't even in space, I think 02:03:16 464 is one of the better DF quotes 02:03:33 830 is pretty insightful 02:04:39 hmm 02:04:42 let's just roll again 02:04:43 `quote 02:04:44 `quote 02:04:44 `quote 02:04:44 `quote 02:04:47 `quote 02:05:11 325) Google Maps has options for "avoid highways" and "avoid tolls", but no "avoid Chicago" 02:06:08 821) yeah well, petty theft > federal obstruction of justice 02:06:08 86) I don't know that I've ever heard apocalypi described in terms of depth ... 02:06:09 417) god created the natural numbers, the rationals were done by man and the work was finally completed (topologically) by satan himself 02:06:09 431) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace 02:07:40 I vote for 821 and 431 02:08:06 you can only delete one!! 02:08:36 someone else vote then and we can see who wins 02:09:06 ais523: we need you 02:09:32 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:10:06 wb me 02:10:32 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:10:36 325 or 821 02:10:43 would have typed that faster but things kept stealing focus 02:11:01 the latest version of Ubuntu has fixed one focus-stealing monstrosity but added two more 02:11:12 431 is good 02:11:18 `quote 02:11:18 `quote 02:11:18 `quote 02:11:18 don't delete it 02:11:19 `quote 02:11:19 `quote 02:11:27 shachaf: yeah, 431 is good 02:11:35 elliott: I think I'm getting a little bored of pentaquoting, anyway 02:11:36 Is OpenSUSE better than Kubuntu? 02:11:45 519) I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed. 02:11:47 ais523: maybe that means there are no bad quotes left 02:11:57 hmm 02:11:59 We could always add some! 02:12:01 `addquote hi 02:12:01 most of the DF quotes aren't so great 02:12:09 shachaf 02:12:11 no 02:12:17 shachaf: please 02:12:24 were you /always/ this immature, and I just didn't notice? 02:12:27 860) hi 02:12:30 o.O shachaf actually listens to me? This is scary. 02:12:32 or have you become less mature as you grew up? 02:12:33 `revert 02:12:35 `delquote 860 02:12:43 elliott: I was going to `delquote, but `revert works too 02:12:49 less typing 02:12:50 184) zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number. It's broken? 02:12:53 Done. 02:12:55 339) Oracle's awesome 02:12:57 also I think less unreliable 02:12:58 async-wise 02:12:58 596) fizzie: It's like a JIT, if JITs were... strings. 02:12:59 603) If you jump a car from a ramp and hit the wall of a building, in midair, you tend to get ejected up and fly to the sky-ceiling, then slowly slide at that height to one corner of the world; then you land, make a complicated spinning-around thing for a while, and then explode. Also probably works in real life? 02:13:01 184 is good 02:13:11 596 is good 02:13:15 339 is not good 02:13:17 ​*poof* hi 02:13:22 02:11:45 519) I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed. 02:13:24 `pastelog Oracle's awesome 02:13:25 603 is good though 02:13:26 oh no..what got reverted..... 02:13:26 there's also this one in case you missed it 02:13:27 I must know the context 02:13:31 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 02:13:33 elliott: I mentioned it tangentially 02:13:35 it's not so good 02:13:43 I'd probably delete 339 though 02:13:52 I only just reconnected from the last failure! Furrfu 02:13:56 No output. 02:14:29 `delquote 339 02:14:32 ​*poof* Oracle's awesome 02:14:33 let's do one more 02:14:34 `quote 02:14:35 `quote 02:14:35 `quote 02:14:35 `quote 02:14:38 `quote 02:14:54 629) It's like single player Hackiki in a way(?) Ngevd: yes, but with multiple players. 02:14:54 688) i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself 02:14:54 `pastelog Oracle.* 02:15:27 * tswett rolls out. 02:15:29 -!- tswett has left. 02:15:37 No output. 02:15:40 :/ 02:15:41 I like 629 02:15:45 I like 699 too but not as much 02:15:45 wtf was the context? 02:15:46 797) I couldn't survive an apocalypse. I don't even have any bitcoins. 02:15:48 111) we'd care about a turing-complete pencil 02:15:49 *688 02:15:50 850) omg that JIT is really amazing [...] I hear if you listen carefully to the rustling wind on a warm night with a full moon, you can hear the sound of the JIT building ARM functions. 02:15:53 797 is good 02:16:00 111 is true but not that funny 02:16:10 850 isn't so great either 02:16:48 what does it mean for a pencil to be turing complete.... 02:17:00 monqy: it's the same concept as USB sushi, really 02:17:58 btw, anyone follow tdwtf sidebar? there was the best snoofle post ever today 02:18:05 `delquote 111 02:18:15 ​*poof* we'd care about a turing-complete pencil 02:19:25 aw I liked 111 :< 02:21:07 pfffff 02:21:13 Fiora: hi 02:21:16 hi 02:21:30 `welcome elliott 02:21:36 elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:21:57 shachaf… 02:22:02 " hi" has to be a quote 02:22:15 lest the meme be forgotten? 02:22:29 TheSmooze: does HackEgo have an ignore list? if so, you may want to consider adding shachaf to it 02:22:36 it does 02:22:42 it contains exactly one entry 02:22:52 fungot? egobot? 02:22:53 ais523: don't use modules i don't like it 02:23:17 ais523: For what reason? 02:23:19 ^bf ,[.,]!`echo test 02:23:20 `echo test 02:23:23 test 02:23:38 (http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/hg/index.cgi/file/9fe46bf600be/multibot_cmds/PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd#l49) 02:23:42 TheSmooze: he's been repeatedly spamming bot commands, especially in the middle of conversations / attempts to use other bot commands, mostly using HackEgo, to no real benefit 02:24:14 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:24:36 elliott: Second opinion? 02:24:38 `addquote what does it mean for a pencil to be turing complete.... monqy: it's the same concept as USB sushi, really 02:24:46 858) what does it mean for a pencil to be turing complete.... monqy: it's the same concept as USB sushi, really 02:24:49 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 02:24:56 oerjan: OK, I like that followup quote 02:25:02 even if I was slightly aiming to be quoted there 02:25:06 usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it 02:25:09 (USB sushi actually does exist, btw) 02:25:13 hmph 02:25:17 (although it's just sushi with an embedded flash drive) 02:25:33 `addquote usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it 02:25:37 that reminds me of a previous quote 02:25:37 859) usb sushi is dangerous. I think I would try to eat it 02:25:40 although i don't know which 02:25:46 oh 02:25:49 it's monqy's first one 02:26:01 not the petrol quote? 02:26:19 maybe 02:27:00 there've been a few quotes like that 02:28:01 TheSmooze: I say yes. 02:28:38 shachaf: are you trying to apply reverse psychology? 02:28:51 olsner: if he said either no /or/ yes, would you believe him? 02:30:00 if he said yes, I would 02:30:15 but you wouldn't if he said no? 02:30:30 if he said no I would interpret it as yes and believe him 02:30:51 hmm, in which case there isn't much of a point in receiving an answer to the question 02:31:04 indeed 02:31:10 (it's still useful to some extent for its rhetorical effect) 02:31:17 I wonder if there's a name for this kind of question 02:32:12 rhetorical question 02:33:13 -!- greyooze has joined. 02:33:17 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:34:52 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:39:54 lament is so positive and full of hope in the 2003 logs 02:41:30 dawww 02:42:36 @tell tswett Wait, are you ihope?? 02:42:37 Consider it noted. 02:45:46 yes 02:46:52 tswett is ihope, also kerlo; elliott is alise, also tusho. or was that the other way around. 02:47:12 i contain multitudes 02:47:39 i am oerjan, also oerjan_. 02:48:30 oh, I forgot about tusho 02:48:33 `pastlog oerjan__ 02:48:39 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 02:48:45 haven't used this nick in a while 02:48:55 2012-04-09.txt:20:14:37: -!- oerjan is now known as oerjan__. 02:49:03 -!- greyooze has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:49:09 oerjan: Are you also oerjan__? 02:49:17 shachaf: no, that's me 02:49:31 i have irssi set only to know about oerjan_, so i dunno why i did that. 02:49:52 I am shachaf, also shachaf_. 02:50:04 My Freenode account is named "Shachaf" for some reason, though. 02:50:10 I guess I was a bad person when I made it. 02:50:53 a Capital mistake? 02:52:21 -!- greyooze has joined. 02:53:05 poor greyooze will never know the secrets just revealed. 02:54:39 olsner is oerjan__ 02:55:22 instead he must make up his own false ones 02:56:08 oerjan: Are you also oerjan__? 02:56:13 shachaf: no, that's me 02:56:28 I provide citations! 02:56:58 zzo38: I wish to examine your gopherhole (nmiaow), can you recommend a client? 03:08:11 greyooze: What operating system? 03:11:12 -!- greyooze has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:11:33 someone should recommend an isp instead. 03:11:37 eep. MEMORY_MANAGEMENT bluescreen... I think I'm going to need to run some memtest tonight >_< 03:13:20 -!- TheSmooze has changed nick to Gregor. 03:13:35 “Starting today, we're no longer accepting new sign-ups for the free version of Google Apps (the version you're currently using).” 03:14:00 Takin' all bets on how much time there is between that and “Starting next month, we're canceling all free memberships. You can upgrade for the low low price of money!” 03:16:27 it's ok the world ends in two weeks anyway 03:16:35 * oerjan hides under rock 03:22:02 :t select 03:22:03 Not in scope: `select' 03:22:03 Perhaps you meant `reflect' (imported from Control.Monad.Logic) 03:22:10 @hoogle select 03:22:10 Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Selection module Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Selection 03:22:10 Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Selection Select :: RenderMode 03:22:10 Text.Html select :: Html -> Html 03:22:45 hm must be a privately defined function 03:25:28 Gregor: nice. 03:37:55 google gotta get paid 03:38:34 -!- Bike has joined. 03:38:50 Bike: welcome back!!!!!! 03:39:42 what is love 03:39:42 Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 03:39:58 hi 03:41:21 So, Radixal!!!! isn't quite what I'd hoped. I was hoping for something similar to MISC, but with an absurdly awkward encoding. 03:43:54 misc the oisc? why? 03:44:34 Just fit my imaginings of how this weird-radix language would work. 03:44:56 Main thing is, I don't see a lot of individual digit manipulation, which would have all the deliciously weird effects we want. 03:45:30 needs moar intercal operators 03:50:33 I'm kinda not of the esolang design of “pile every weird feature together and see what happens” X-D 03:50:48 I prefer “choose a few particularly weird features and make everything else relatively straightforward” 03:51:13 well, i meant the "mingle" operator or whatever it is 03:51:34 maybe just have the builtin arithmetic be digit-wise only 04:12:12 -!- scarf has quit. 04:15:08 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:18:03 -!- torwier has joined. 04:18:48 -!- torwier has quit (Client Quit). 04:20:52 did you know that 10.5 / 7 is 1.5? 04:20:54 kinda weird 04:22:09 * shachaf isn't following. 04:24:45 that's all 04:25:10 did you know 105/70 is also 1.5? 04:25:33 I'm sure you didn't check that it was right shachaf 04:26:47 kmc: did you know that 0.01 + 0.001 + 0.0002 + 0.00003 + 0.000005 + 0.0000008 + 0.00000013 + ... (fibonacci numbers, shifted one digit to the right every time) is *exactly* equal to 1/89? 04:27:05 well I mean the limit is 1/89 if you take an infinity of numbers 04:27:20 I find that amazing 04:27:33 among other things it means that it will repeat after some time 04:29:05 sum(F_n/10^n)/10, hm... 04:30:00 have a good time proving it; if I recall correctly the 89 comes as 10^2-10-1 or something 04:31:11 seems about right 04:31:52 that's why of the reasons why 89 is my favourite number 04:32:04 one* 04:36:17 Arc_Koen: woah 04:36:27 I KNOW RIGHT 04:36:55 so there's a closed form for fibonacci numbers 04:37:13 Arc_Koen: 89 should only be your favorite number if you think 10 is important. 04:37:16 But 10 is the devil. 04:37:20 eh, why wouldn't there be? 04:37:33 yeah I know there was something wrong with that 04:37:42 I wonder if it works with some other bases too 04:37:58 I seem to remember wondering the same thing back in high school when I first discovered that 04:38:21 but also, it's not the only reason why 89 is my favourite number; others involve the year 1989 04:38:22 b^2-b-1 should work similarly, i should think 04:38:40 i meant "so, there's a closed form for fibnacci numbers, that should help in proving it" 04:38:49 oh, sorry 04:39:14 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum(F_n%2F2%5En)%2F2 and apparently it does work. 04:41:28 (100-10-1)*F_1/100 + (100-10-1)*F_2/1000 + (100-10-1)*F_3/10000 + ... = 1 - F_2/1000 + (100-10-1)*F_3/10000 + ... 04:42:00 because F_1 = F_2 = 1 04:42:25 hm wait 04:43:41 silly those have the same sign, don't cancel 04:43:55 hi 04:44:31 hi quintopia 04:44:58 other interesting properties I remember, sum(F_k up to k = n+2) = F(n+2) + 1 04:45:00 or something like that 04:45:11 = F_n + 1, I mean 04:45:19 you could probably do it with the generating function 04:45:52 I had made a program to display the sequence on my calculator and it should also display the sum 04:46:27 and at some point I noticed it and thought "wait, is that really the sum? is that a bug?" 04:47:01 is it possible to permanently trcik steam into thinking i'm in russia? know any good russia proxy? 04:48:19 > let fib = fix((0:).scanl(+)1) in fib 04:48:21 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... 04:48:36 > let fib = fix((0:).scanl(+)1) in scanl1(+)fib 04:48:38 [0,1,2,4,7,12,20,33,54,88,143,232,376,609,986,1596,2583,4180,6764,10945,177... 04:49:14 oerjan: Hah, that's a nice way of looking at it. 04:49:15 looks like - 1 to me 04:50:56 btw the true fibonacci sequence starts with 1 1 04:50:57 not 0 1 04:51:37 there is no true fibonacci sequence 04:51:48 i consider F_0 = 0 to be an important term in the sequence 04:52:03 or the function 04:52:08 actually it's F_0 = 1 F_1 = (sqrt(5)+1)/2 04:52:09 yeah, especially when computing the sum 04:52:35 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 04:53:00 like, can you tell me whether n(n+1)/2 is sum(k, k=1..n) or sum(k, k=0..n)? I can never remember that 04:53:21 * oerjan swats Arc_Koen -----### 04:54:36 we calculated here on the channel once that gcd(F_m, F_n) = F_gcd(m,n) 04:55:10 you need to put F_0 = 0 for that 04:56:20 > fix(scanl(+)1) 04:56:22 [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,... 04:56:50 that sequence looks familiar 04:56:59 eerily 04:57:03 I'm gonna try to spend the next two hours sleeping 04:57:15 have fun 04:57:23 bye 04:57:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 04:58:50 > scanl(+)1[1,1,2,3,5] 04:58:51 [1,2,3,5,8,13] 05:05:56 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:16:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:43:31 `quote 05:43:39 `quote 05:43:40 `quote 05:43:40 `quote 05:43:41 `quote 05:43:48 582) An 'ad hobbitem' fallacy is when you try to undermine someone's credibility by referring to how hairy his/her feets are. 05:43:50 141) Vonlebio: well, i'm only back in denmark because my work visa expired. please insert token to continue. 05:44:15 227) who is guido van rossum you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties 05:44:16 83) Making a small shrine to Lawlabee in my basement is something I should get around to at some point. 05:44:19 795) < oklopol> oh god another crazy haskell understander < oklopol> i have to leave 05:44:53 795? 141? 83? 05:45:00 oh hey, 795 is about me 05:45:07 hi coppro 05:45:12 141 is great. 83 is meh 05:45:12 Are you a crazy Haskell understander? 05:45:20 I think I was at the time maybe 05:58:44 `delquote 83 05:58:46 `quote 05:58:47 `quote 05:58:49 ​*poof* Making a small shrine to Lawlabee in my basement is something I should get around to at some point. 05:58:50 243) lol @ closed character set standard "What does this codepoint represent?" "Nobody knows." 05:59:08 448) beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck 05:59:41 `quote 05:59:41 `quote 05:59:42 `quote 05:59:47 476) software patents strike again that's got to be at least three times, now are they out yet? 06:00:03 335) two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django 06:00:07 666) why not just give the gays their own state so people could finally pray in peace 06:16:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:22:19 `quote 06:22:22 366) I used to be more irritated by alcohol Sgeo: you're not supposed to put it in your eyes 06:27:29 `quote django 06:27:32 276) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 324) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 325) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something 06:28:44 django is sort of this black hole of the quotiverse, sucking everything in to a singularity about one quote 06:38:21 `delquote 352 06:38:24 ​*poof* Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be? 06:38:29 `delquote 325 06:38:32 ​*poof* `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one thankfully only two 06:38:50 ugh 06:38:52 `undo 06:38:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: undo: not found 06:39:01 `revert 06:39:01 `revert 06:39:04 Done. 06:39:07 :0 06:39:13 `quote 352 06:39:14 monqy: What's :0? 06:39:19 352) I hope type inference isn't difficult 06:39:19 :-0 06:39:23 Done. 06:39:24 ... crap 06:39:28 `quote 352 06:39:31 352) I hope type inference isn't difficult 06:39:40 `quote django 06:39:44 276) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 324) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 325) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something 06:39:49 `delquote 325 06:39:54 ​*poof* `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one thankfully only two 06:40:05 actually you know what? 06:40:07 monqy: You grew a nose? 06:40:07 352 sucked anyway 06:40:13 :--0 06:40:18 :⿐0 06:40:30 :-: 06:40:39 `quote 06:40:42 610) I'd insult you behind your back, but I don't care which side of your back I insult you on. 06:40:50 `bedtime 06:40:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bedtime: not found 06:41:41 monqy: did you learn lens yet 06:41:52 : 06:41:59 ： 06:50:38 > 06:52:08 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:00:46 Now I made the "stretcher" command in Csound, and I like the effects it make! 07:01:49 // ares stretcher ain, idelay, xduty, [kfeedback], [kscanspeed] == Rapid stretch and unstretch the signal 07:01:56 hi zzo38 07:02:41 Hello 07:04:38 -!- Sgeo|web_ has joined. 07:06:17 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:09:47 shachaf: I'm telling you. 07:09:53 shachaf: 目鼻口 07:10:53 O 鼻! 07:48:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:49:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:50:25 -!- Bike has joined. 08:23:59 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: dead). 08:37:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:53:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:17:41 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:56:54 -!- nooga has joined. 10:03:08 -!- Zerker has joined. 10:04:35 -!- evitable has joined. 10:09:43 eyenosemouth 10:27:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:58:48 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 11:19:43 If BB is the busy beaver function, is there an n such that, if BB(n) were known, it could be used to solve the halting problem? 11:21:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:51:37 -!- carado has joined. 12:11:41 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:19:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:20:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:20:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:20:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:20:17 Just because my project has some security issues doesn't mean I need to allow XSS as well 12:55:00 -!- monqy has joined. 12:59:48 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:11:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:18:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 13:24:05 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:26:49 -!- cokel has joined. 13:28:00 -!- cokel has quit (Client Quit). 13:55:17 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:57:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:31:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:32:53 Phantom_Hoover, any reply to the complainant? 14:33:00 from, rather. 14:33:30 not afaik 14:33:43 nope 14:34:20 i think the proper term is 'complainer' 14:34:28 Who knows 14:35:17 i know it's the correct term in scots law 14:50:10 Fuck Python, Fuck PubNub, Fuck the idiot called "Sgeo" who apparently doesn't know how to program without millions of global variables 14:51:23 have you considered getting professional help for your habit of randomly ejaculating your opinions on languages into the channel 14:51:25 Sgeo|web_, does Sgeo know how to get a slice of an array in Haskell? 14:52:11 It's something I can google.. 14:53:09 PubNub is not a language. I am also not a language. 14:54:15 pubnub just sounds like some sort of euphemism 15:29:04 * FreeFull fucks Sgeo|web_ 15:30:57 -!- carado has joined. 15:34:53 `welcome carado 15:35:05 carado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:35:28 is carado related to corrado i wonder 15:37:13 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:37:35 -!- ogrom has joined. 15:38:02 -!- ogrom has left. 15:40:28 -!- hellok has quit. 15:45:42 I think carado is correlated with corrado. 15:46:43 corrado ? i have no idea what thas is. 15:50:05 corrado bohm is a guy 15:52:50 oh. what do he do ? 15:53:15 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:53:55 I need something recreational to do while I relax my mind from programming for maybe half an hour 15:54:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:54:31 I still feel like a shitty programmer. I can't blame the language for my globals abuse, the way I do with LS 15:54:32 LSL 15:56:25 is lsl really your main programming experience 15:58:14 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:59:01 It's one of the significant ones 15:59:23 Not the only significant one though 16:04:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 16:09:51 @tell ais523 There is a local company called AIS Gas. Thought you should know. 16:09:52 Consider it noted. 16:10:02 -!- Sgeo|web_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:10:21 @tell ais523 what does the i in your name stand for 16:10:22 Consider it noted. 16:10:48 Imogen 16:11:46 !! 16:13:52 (joke: I actually don't know) 16:14:09 neither do i 16:14:21 iambic? 16:14:29 maybe we could do that birmingham #esoteric meetup and i could threaten him 16:15:25 I think this is one of the few channels I would consider meeting people from. The crazy population seems quite low here 16:15:37 (Or, at least, we are all crazy in a good way) 16:16:10 Maybe i is for ichneumon O_O 16:16:30 or the crazies have been quiet lately 16:16:52 i thought 'ian' first, but he said it wasn't and iirc he gave no comment on 'ivan' 16:18:04 idocrase 16:19:16 imaginative, that is quite appropriate 16:19:24 iconoclast? 16:19:38 that would be quite the irony, after all 16:20:53 Perhaps he won't come to a meetup on account of being immiscible 16:21:36 Maybe the I stands for I 16:22:15 It's I all the way down 16:22:25 I wonder if the a stands for a. 16:23:03 nah, we know it stands for alex 16:23:18 maybe 'ivanovich'? 16:24:34 Alex A. Aleksyich 16:26:44 icosahedron 16:28:50 guys help I have an email in my inbox with the subject "Esolang e-mail from user "Star651"" 16:28:55 should I open it 16:28:57 yes 16:29:01 yes you should 16:29:05 Why shouldn't you 16:29:25 Deewiant: his languages are too innovative 16:29:28 It's not going to explode 16:29:36 emailbomb 16:29:37 What do you know, it might be an e-mailbomb 16:29:39 elliott: "too innovative" in what sense 16:29:40 Damn it, Phantom_Hoover 16:29:42 emaillang 16:29:45 Deewiant: in... well have you seen them 16:29:52 elliott: Yes 16:30:17 open! 16:30:25 anyway I preemptively blame whoever 86.146.80.103 is 16:30:43 How many non-deterministic esolangs are there? 16:31:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Nondeterministic http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Probabilistic count 'em 16:31:16 Does C++ count 16:31:31 Not many 16:31:44 Jafet: C++ isn't esoteric 16:31:55 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 16:32:21 this email confuses me 16:32:27 ...just confusing 16:32:38 C++ is the most esoteric 16:33:22 * FireFly wonders whether APL would qualify for an article on the wiki 16:33:58 not really 16:34:03 maybe a brief mention 16:34:13 APL makes more sense to me than C++ some days... 16:34:43 apl mainly just has ultra-terse syntax, it's only viewed as 'esoteric' because of that law kmc so loves to mention 16:34:49 It's certainly an experiment in a seldom-used direction 16:34:55 APL has been successfully used by *managers*, it can't be that esoteric :o) 16:35:15 Phantom_Hoover, which law? 16:35:26 uh 16:35:30 walders 16:35:39 waddlers? 16:35:46 wadlers, that's it 16:36:00 http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Haskell 16:36:09 oh joy, an uncyclopedia article 16:36:12 apparently there's also "Walder coined "Walder's Law" which stated that the first speaker at any 1922 Committee meeting was insane." 16:36:28 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:36:38 what if APL was invented by the first speaker of a 1922 committee meeting 16:36:43 if you think APL's unusual feature is its terse syntax you don't know much about APL 16:36:57 elliott, i didn't say 'unusual' 16:38:32 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:38:53 APL is perler than perl 16:40:20 But being unusual alone doesn't make a language esoteric; Haskell and Lisp aren't really esoteric. 16:41:14 If you put a million monkeys at a million keyboards, one of them will eventually write a valid C++ program. The rest will write valid Perl and TECO programs. 16:41:34 not if you put them at APL keyboards? 16:42:38 We couldn't get funding for a million APL keyboards :-( 16:42:58 Put a million monkeys at a million apl keyboards, and each of them will write some version of Windows 16:43:46 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 16:44:03 Is there such a thing as an invalid TECO program? 16:44:36 I can see an article about sed, dc and m4 being worthwhile. 16:47:05 and Ursala, though it claims to be a non-esoteric language 16:47:07 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 16:47:24 FireFly, I don't think so? Not 100% sure 16:48:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:48:20 -!- Nisstyre_ has changed nick to Nisstyre. 16:54:45 elliott, so what did he have to say 16:54:53 still confused 16:54:55 olsner: i love ursala 16:54:58 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:56:17 isn't that the crazy functional language written by a bank manager or something 16:56:48 I thought Ursala was a disney character 16:57:16 no that's ursula 16:57:29 https://github.com/gueststar/Ursala/blob/master/contrib/sudoku.fun 16:58:08 ur-salad 16:58:16 I want to write code that goes "~&al?\~&ar ~&aa^&~&afahPRPfafatPJPRY+ ~&farlthlriNCSPDPDrlCS2DlrTS2J" and know what it does 16:58:33 It doesn't look like it involves bears 16:59:55 Are you sure that isn't just embedded Malbolge or something? 17:01:17 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 17:01:29 it seems to come with a thing to make it comprehensible 17:03:44 * FreeFull has written code like 0!0@8r0@10r^0@19r+10r1%xMp0 before 17:03:46 olsner, are you sure the garbled strings aren't bytecode 17:04:22 "Pointer expressions such as ̃&nSiiDPSLrlXS from Listing 1.2, are a [shorthand] for a great variety of frequently occurring patterns." 17:04:45 hmm 17:04:50 The most obscure thing I've written is probably gen =: * @: (=&3@:] + =&3@:-~) +/^:2 @: (offsets & |.) 17:05:16 which isn't all that bad :( 17:05:27 wait, who was the last poor bastard trying to do an eodermdrome interpreter 17:05:34 monqy knows a fair amount of ursala 17:05:39 Phantom_Hoover: bike 17:05:52 "shorthand" 17:06:06 The code I posted just now is ibniz :D 17:06:08 did he get anywhere 17:07:02 It's a stack-based language where all opcodes are one character ( number constants are up to 9 characters though, eg FFFF.FFFF ) 17:12:55 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:16:59 -!- Zerker has joined. 17:26:53 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 17:27:56 -!- Bike has joined. 17:33:44 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 17:50:25 oi oerjan (future oerjan) 17:50:40 your bct program's subgraphs aren't encoded correctly 17:51:13 wait they are i'm just reading the wrong way 17:54:56 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 17:55:30 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 18:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:17:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:18:48 kmc: http://lens.github.com/ 18:21:01 lenses remind me of ursala's pointer expressions 18:22:25 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:24:31 -!- ion has joined. 18:24:32 shachaf: woah, nice 18:25:00 I think this was easier in Python 18:26:28 did you put this together shachaf ? 18:26:37 No, edwardk did. 18:27:06 ok 18:27:11 you were working on lens docs, though, right? 18:28:19 A bit. 18:28:29 More on the code than the documentation. 18:29:19 * shachaf is meaning to write some sort of introduction but hasn't gotten to it yet. 18:29:36 You should go to edwardk's talk talk in NYC! 18:29:42 I guess that's a bit far. 18:33:21 I wonder whether he'll talk about prisms. 18:33:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:37:49 what are prisms? 18:38:01 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 18:38:23 Extrusions of a plane in a perpendicular dimension 18:38:44 Prisms are colenses. 18:38:56 Prisms : sums = lenses : products. 18:39:06 kmc: first-class patterns 18:39:12 isomorphisms that are partial in one direction 18:39:20 That too. 18:39:53 Lens s t a b = (s -> a, (s, b) -> t) 18:39:54 Like either? 18:40:05 Deewiant: like "left" or "right" 18:40:06 Prism s t a b = (b -> t, s -> Either t a) 18:40:12 or "just" 18:40:22 stab 18:40:22 @ty strippingPrefix 18:40:23 Not in scope: `strippingPrefix' 18:40:23 Perhaps you meant `stripPrefix' (imported from Data.List) 18:40:32 @type Data.List.Lens.strippingPrefix 18:40:33 (Eq a, Applicative f, Prismatic k) => [a] -> k ([a] -> f [a]) ([a] -> f [a]) 18:40:40 a good type signature 18:40:41 @ty view 18:40:42 MonadReader s m => Getting a s t a b -> m a 18:40:53 Getting a stab????? 18:41:22 so s=t, a=b is a simple useful case right 18:41:25 so let me think about that first 18:42:09 (a -> s, s -> Either s a) 18:42:25 In that can you can just think of it as (a -> s, s -> Maybe a) 18:42:30 ok, that's what i suspected 18:42:49 kmc: _just :: Prism (Maybe a) (Maybe b) a b :: (b -> Maybe b, a -> Either (Maybe b) a) 18:42:55 but in the more general case, what do you return when the match "fails"? 18:42:59 (The Either is just a trick to make sure you can set s=t) 18:43:05 It's like Left. The two things you can do with Left is match on it (that's s -> Maybe a) and construct (Left x) from (x) (that's a -> s). 18:43:08 (For the laws to hold for any lenslike you need to be able to set s=t, a=b) 18:43:27 (i.e. putting the same type back in as you got out) 18:43:38 Also my signature was wrong. 18:43:58 You can think of _left as (a -> Either a b, Either a b -> Maybe a) 18:44:12 But it's actually (a' -> Either a' b, Either a b -> Either (Either a' b) a) 18:44:31 why 18:44:33 (obviously if it's actually a Right, you can set the first type parameter to anything) 18:44:37 kmc: so you can change the type 18:44:56 data Foo a = Foo { bar :: [a] } -- you can make a proper lens for bar in lens but not other lens libraries 18:45:02 _bar :: Lens (Foo a) (Foo b) [a] [b] 18:45:11 (But that's not relevant to the core idea of prisms.) 18:45:17 yeah i get that 18:45:24 so it's just the same thing for prisms 18:45:28 right 18:46:03 kmc: basically you can make a lens for each element of a product 18:46:06 (e.g. each field of a record) 18:46:11 and a prism for each alternative of a sum 18:46:15 (e.g. Left/Right) 18:47:05 so i could use _left to write a function of type (Either Int Bool) -> (Either String Bool) which applies 'show' to Left values and leaves Right values alone 18:47:16 yep 18:47:19 over _left show 18:47:24 or _left %~ show 18:47:37 out of curiosity how many infix operators does this library define 18:47:39 99 18:47:41 a lot 18:47:46 Exactly 99 18:47:47 but most of them follow a common pattern 18:48:00 like foo +~ bar is foo %~ (+bar) 18:48:04 you can mix these prisms with other lenses too 18:48:12 Partial lens -> Prism 18:48:14 v v 18:48:15 Most of them are for arithmetic 18:48:15 Lens -> Iso 18:48:32 like you can do _left._1 %~ show 18:48:52 Look at my fancy commutative diagram! 18:48:52 which applies "show" to the first element of the tuple in a "Left" and leaves "Right _" unchanged 18:48:57 :t _left._1 %~ show 18:48:58 (Show a, Field1 a1 b a String) => Either a1 c -> Either b c 18:49:04 cool 18:49:09 (Show a) => Either (a,b) c -> Either (String,b) c 18:49:18 modulo the typeclasses for tuples of arbitrary (up to 9) size 18:49:21 yeah 18:49:23 arbitrary, n. <= 9 18:49:24 There's another one that goes Lens -> {PartialLens, NonEmptyTraversal} -> Traversal 18:49:42 kmc: you can also do 18:49:46 > 123 ^. remit _left 18:49:47 Left 123 18:49:50 which is not very exciting on its own of course 18:50:00 that's the (a' -> Either a' b) part 18:50:16 > "prefix" ^. strippingPrefix "pre" 18:50:17 Not in scope: `strippingPrefix' 18:50:17 Perhaps you meant `stripPrefix' (imported ... 18:50:21 > "prefix" ^. Data.List.Lens.strippingPrefix "pre" 18:50:23 Not in scope: `Data.List.Lens.strippingPrefix' 18:50:27 hmph 18:50:36 > Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce "hi" 18:50:38 Not in scope: `Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce' 18:51:05 > (Left (1,2), Right ()) & both._left._1 %~ show 18:51:07 (Left ("1",2),Right ()) 18:51:13 > (Left (1,2), Left (3,"x")) & both._left._1 %~ show 18:51:15 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Char]) 18:51:15 arising from the literal ... 18:51:17 er, right 18:51:19 > (Left (1,2), Left (3,4)) & both._left._1 %~ show 18:51:21 (Left ("1",2),Left ("3",4)) 18:51:23 would need type signatures for that 18:51:49 Type signatures? 18:52:01 for the forall 18:52:34 MSPA is back up 18:54:03 what's "remit" do? 18:54:20 kmc: well, prism is (b -> t, s -> Either t a) 18:54:25 remit gives you the (b -> t) part as a Getter 18:54:58 so _left is (Left, \x -> case x of Left a -> Right a; Right a -> Right a) (the use of Either makes this confusing...) 18:55:03 remit _left = to Left 18:55:42 99 operators but a switch ain't one 18:56:03 kmc: you can imagine view patterns working with prisms also 18:56:16 foo (_left -> x) = ... 18:56:33 or even a language where all pattern-matching is based on prisms -- i.e. instead of "Left" being a constructor, it would be a prism: 18:56:39 foo (Left x) = ... 18:56:40 > (xor) <$> [0..15] <*> [0..15] 18:56:41 [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,1,0,3,2,5,4,7,6,9,8,11,10,13,12,15,1... 18:56:50 problem is that they can only view single values -- it separates sums and products 18:56:57 i.e. if you have data Foo a b = Foo a b | ... 18:57:01 the prism has to view (a,b) or whatever instead 18:57:07 elliott: You can use partial lenses to view sums of products. 18:57:09 I reeeally took a liking to Control.Applicative once I got introduced to it 18:57:13 They work fine, you just can't reconstruct from them. 18:57:16 shachaf: yeah 18:57:59 elliott: The worst part about PartialLens is that it would require a mempty-only version of Monoid to do "properly". 18:58:20 isn't that class called Default or something? 18:58:38 it's called "meaningless" :( 18:58:42 instance Default m => Pointed (Const m) where ... 18:58:47 :-( 19:03:56 How can partial lenses be so great while Pointed is so terrible? 19:04:00 it don't add up 19:05:44 shachaf: btw I think the pointed package has that instance 19:06:05 Oh, so it does. 19:11:32 kmc: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/acme-comonad 19:15:30 heh 19:41:27 A nice package indeed 19:58:15 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 20:00:36 -!- iamcal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:50 -!- iamcal_ has changed nick to iamcal. 20:26:13 “I am the princess of the night. Thus it is my duty to come into your dreams.” Creeeeepy 20:41:09 -!- Vorpal has joined. 20:55:14 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:55:45 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:01:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:02:36 The units of measurement for DVI is specified in the header in decimicrons, as a fraction. For some reason, the number TeX puts there is not in lowest terms. Do you know why? 21:13:00 microns? Seriously? 21:13:00 Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:13:11 @messages 21:13:12 elliott said 19h 45m 29s ago: hi was just talking about you today!! 21:13:18 elliott, oh? 21:13:35 @tell elliott oh? 21:13:36 Consider it noted. 21:13:43 brb 21:14:13 Vorpal: Actually, decimicrons. 21:14:46 Which is one tenth of one micron. And it is fraction of decimicrons so it can be smaller than that. 21:15:20 also why not call it micrometre which is the official name of that unit 21:15:37 anyway that precision is quite extreme 21:17:56 A micron is the same as a micrometre, but this is a decimicron. 21:18:39 so a decimicrometre 21:18:42 Yes. 21:19:21 TeX units are smaller, specifically 1/4736286.72 inch. 21:20:40 The Haskell typesetting library I made, uses the same units as TeX by default, but they are in lowest terms. 21:20:49 zzo38, and what is that in metric? 21:21:15 I think 1 inch = 2.54 cm 21:21:41 about 5.36 nm 21:22:16 i.e. "hey, you can google that!" 21:22:51 incidentally, that also brings up three earlier conversations in #esoteric mentioning this number 21:24:20 That was a weird. Our washing machine just... decided not to stop. The program select-o-tron went at least once if not twice through the "STOP" position, and it spent something like over three hours doing... something. 21:26:38 maybe someone tried to spin it backwards and broke the whole thing 21:26:55 the program wheel, that is 21:27:25 I don't think anyone did. I certainly didn't. 21:27:40 ouch 21:27:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:28:04 When we stopped it and told it to run a "spin only" program, it did that and stopped normally. 21:28:15 So perhaps it was a transient failure. But it's still kind of weird. 21:30:29 It's also just a bit over 8 years old, and it coincidentally came with an 8-year optional extended warranty (that we didn't take). 21:34:00 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 21:35:28 -!- asiekierka has joined. 21:38:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:39:22 fizzie, heh 21:40:46 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:41:04 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 21:44:09 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 21:44:24 -!- TeruFSX2 has joined. 21:44:37 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 21:45:15 Did I miss the revelation of what the i in ais523 stands for? 21:45:44 more importantly, did i? 21:46:36 hmm I SUPPOSE I could check the logs 21:46:46 Hey, why are you more important than me?! 21:47:16 i've waited 21:47:17 for years 21:47:22 years 21:47:40 Phantom_Hoover, aren't you a few months younger than me? 21:47:54 as far as i know 21:48:00 what 21:48:00 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 21:48:07 presumably you're 18 by now 21:48:09 November 84 21:48:10 i thought Taneb was younger than me or something 21:48:12 *94 21:48:35 @tell Vorpal hi 21:48:35 Consider it noted. 21:53:21 -!- greyooze has joined. 21:53:33 Taneb, was there any actual reason for asking that 21:53:41 GreyKnight: get out, I am the superior clone! 21:53:53 ;_; 21:54:01 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: sadface). 21:54:05 Phantom_Hoover, yes 21:54:07 Every reason 21:54:15 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 21:54:48 any specific ones? 21:55:16 Yes 21:55:16 no, you don't understand 21:55:18 EVERY reason 21:55:32 washing machine or... time machine?!? 21:55:40 both! 21:55:49 ever wondered where the missing socks disappear to?! 21:56:01 the clothes inside experienced several weeks of time as they bounced back and forth between the beginning and end of the cycle 21:56:20 kmc: ok please write a film called washing machine or time machine 21:56:22 i would watch it 21:56:24 thanks 21:56:40 elliott: instead you should watch primer 21:57:06 Detention is a good film 21:57:30 Involving time travel 21:57:32 well, there's always Hot Tub Time Machine 21:57:34 It's a bad film otherwise 21:58:04 hot tub washing machine 22:00:55 fungot: should I learn more Haskell or do something else? 22:00:56 GreyKnight: http://esolangs.org/ wiki/ rail 22:01:31 fungot: 22:01:32 kmc: could you add these too? 22:02:00 fungot: 22:02:01 kmc: what's fnord errr 22:02:06 ^style 22:02:06 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:02:15 ^style qwantz 22:02:16 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 22:02:18 fungot: 22:02:19 kmc: people in car car simulator trucko boat 3. 22:02:25 fungot: 22:02:26 kmc: have i, perhaps, a hint! i bet it'll all come flooding, then i'll certainly be blue, or yellow! the orange one", " kinda weird hugs. it would be fun, eh? it's the problem with island gigantism: as soon as i realized it i get really cheezed 22:02:29 that was pretty interesting fungot, thanks! Even if your URL formatting does suck. 22:02:29 GreyKnight: a book by t-rex, ps, i was purple the entire time, t-rex, i think i've figured you out, my life is not that the cows could understand! 22:02:45 fungot: 22:02:46 kmc: like, say, a big meteor strikes! good to see you too, morris! how are you today, gertie! i've never been to the bottom of a bottle. i've never had a chance to 22:03:05 fungot: i have 22:03:06 kmc: it's so good, dromiceiomimus. i just invented. the point is that i came, i'd have to throw away a good chunk of it for the days i've already lived. 22:03:29 fungot, I've been to the bottom of a bottle... of milk! 22:03:29 GreyKnight: to to me, but you'd be spoiling ( in small text) crazy utahraptor! 22:04:13 ^style darwin 22:04:13 Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) 22:04:19 fungot 22:04:20 olsner: mr. washington matthews says, in ( boston journal :) natural history,' vol. ii. 1869, p. 139. on groups :) species,' in/ ( atti della soc. dei naturalisti,' 1867, p. 269), from/ rock-pigeon, or columba livia " including under this term several geographical races can be formed. 22:04:27 oh, that was not good 22:04:58 ^style fungot 22:04:58 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 22:05:13 (Y fungot) 22:05:14 GreyKnight: it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave? fnord 06:22, 29, no. 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 1(::**) ...bad insn! 22:05:27 fungot: ♥ columba livia 22:05:28 kmc: more simply put: siod sucks as a general purpose ( similar, and i'd like to see that mystical forest powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction to theoretical computer, fnord of the fnord here is one that only takes predicates and has not named a 22:05:44 fnord of the fnord 22:05:53 not just your average fnord 22:06:15 Darwin and the smileys: will it never be fixed? 22:06:25 full disclosure: I made a typo in that post at first, but luckily I also failed to press the enter button properly. So I had a chance to edit it after all. 22:07:19 ^source 22:07:19 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 22:07:20 ^style 22:07:21 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 22:07:24 Oh 22:09:02 fizzie: how would one go about contributing to the styles list? I should like to make an RnRS style, if people would be amused by such. 22:09:13 It will handily distract me from doing something useful 22:10:12 GreyKnight, iirc fizzie runs some arcane perl script on a massive cluster at his work place to generate it or something, 22:10:12 Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 22:10:16 @messages 22:10:16 elliott said 21m 42s ago: hi 22:10:34 @tell elliott Hi, how are you today? 22:10:34 Consider it noted. 22:11:45 ^style sms 22:11:45 Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) 22:12:03 fungot: speak your mind 22:12:03 FireFly: me to ghar se h0kar 6 bje tk wapas ajana n lucky bhai ko b uthana paka n btata hu puri bt she didnt mind. he gv lv lttrs, bt her frnds threw me into a game to play, in the car haha. i'm at lvl. 22:12:31 ^style nethack 22:12:32 Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) 22:12:35 fungot: speak your mind 22:12:35 FireFly: they say that an axe named cleaver once belonged to a philosophy of the alignment system,... 22:13:13 fungot: Please accept this donation 22:13:13 GreyKnight: they say that if you teleport to heaven is just a trick: once you know they sell kind of great dark worm, but snow white grew, it grants the one who sucks the blood of men whose very souls were under siege; men to whom death meant not mere extinction, but you can only hear your heartbeat. 22:13:35 Oh my 22:14:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:16:43 GreyKnight: It's kind of documented at http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/varikn/readme.txt but I've kind of accepted the contributions in the format of the results of step 1, i.e. one-line-per-example-of-a-thing-for-fungot-to-say text files. 22:16:43 fizzie: ever tamed a shopkeeper? i wanted to think so, to have impersonated at various times a mare, flea, fly, falcon, by michael moorcock) 22:18:41 I used to have a program for it, but I've never released it anywhere, and most of the styles are done with VariKN now. 22:18:58 Except that 'irc' and the other "old ones" aren't. 22:19:06 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:19:37 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 22:22:35 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:31:24 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:31:38 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:54:27 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 22:54:43 -!- Bike has joined. 23:05:31 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:07:57 -!- greyooze has joined. 23:08:46 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 23:14:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:16:45 (Past) Phantom_Hoover: Whew! 23:17:14 time travel? 23:17:22 oerjan: Welcome to America! 23:17:22 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 23:17:57 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:20:52 352 sucked anyway <-- i'm wondering if the quote database survived last night 23:21:53 `quote e 23:21:58 1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 23:22:16 wait were people deleting quotes without me. 23:22:21 `quote ^[^e]*$ 23:22:23 I'll have you all hanged 23:22:25 56) hmm, this is hard \ 73) Ah, vulva. What is that, anyway? \ 98) Hooray! I'm an idiot. \ 310) 3 = 7/2 \ 555) lol :( \ 606) COCKS [...] truly cocks 23:22:38 elliott: it certainly looked messy 23:23:09 somehow not containing e improves 73 immensely 23:23:12 wtf 23:23:16 coppro deleted all the good django quotes 23:23:16 `help 23:23:19 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:23:26 `quote django 23:23:29 276) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 324) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 334) two quotes about quotes about django I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django 23:23:34 `revert 949 23:23:37 Done. 23:24:19 oerjan: have restored universal order & hth. 23:24:41 yw 23:24:44 `quote GreyKnight 23:24:47 856) fungot, sing me to sleep GreyKnight: 53. file://localhost/ mnt/ space/ media/ books/ 1000+sci-fi%20books/%5bebooks%5d%201000+%20sciencefiction%20%26%20fantasy%20novels%20%28.lit%20forma/ pratchett%2c%20terry/ text/ 14/ fnord This is not a very good song 23:24:59 GreyKnight: these things take time 23:25:05 enjoying these log sgeo rants 23:25:09 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:25:22 oerjan: I couldn't remember what it was I got quoted for! 23:25:44 <-- secretly a goldfish 23:25:56 15:29:04: * FreeFull fucks Sgeo|web_ 23:25:57 what. 23:26:07 oerjan: i think someone made this log up to confuse people 23:26:17 what log is this 23:26:19 FreeFull: please use a private channel next time okthxbye 23:26:22 elliott: He said "fuck sgeo" 23:26:33 Bike: that's a damn good question 23:26:52 all my questions are 23:27:08 FreeFull x Sgeo OTP 23:27:29 what log is this, to the tune of greensleeves 23:27:49 * FreeFull sails the ship 23:27:54 Arrr 23:28:15 what's OTP 23:28:34 some erlang thing 23:29:27 If BB is the busy beaver function, is there an n such that, if BB(n) were known, it could be used to solve the halting problem? <-- only for programs of size n, afaik 23:29:49 One True Pairing 23:30:04 hm no sgeo here 23:30:33 BB(inf) 23:31:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 23:32:16 @tell Sgeo BB(n) can be used to solve the halting problem for programs of size <= n. i suspect you can make some variation of the usual halting problem proof to show it won't help much above n, similar to how you prove the "banana scheme" hierarchy doesn't collapse 23:32:16 Consider it noted. 23:33:15 @tell Sgeo There are all these other kinds of similar hierarchy theorems in complexity etc., although i don't know this one specifically 23:33:15 Consider it noted. 23:35:14 i think the proper term is 'complainer' <-- complainteuriste hth 23:35:42 *complaint tourist 23:36:25 complaint tourist, n. someone who travels the Internet looking for things to moan about. 23:36:42 pubnub just sounds like some sort of euphemism <-- nubile pubes hth 23:36:42 (...I could give examples) 23:36:43 or travels to scotland and sues people? 23:37:15 that is a useful term, i'm going to go ahead and take it 23:39:15 Bike: i demand royalties for derivative work! 23:39:21 olsner, idk if it's used in civil law 23:39:50 hey Bike did you actually get anywhere with that eodermdrome interpreter 23:40:31 you already asked me that, and the answer is "eh" 23:41:17 is lsl really your main programming experience <-- hey don't dis him, my first C family language was LPC 23:41:38 first /= main 23:42:24 conjecture: the reason BF is so popular as a base for derivative esolangs is that it has a swearword in the name and most of the perpetrators are teenage boys 23:42:27 and my path to ed/vim went through the LPMud comment system :P 23:42:44 GreyKnight: fuck you 23:42:51 <- 42 23:42:59 Not even for your birthday 23:43:09 oh wait _derivatives_, ignore me then. 23:43:28 /ignore oerjan 23:43:32 oops 23:43:38 :v 23:44:57 i note there has been an eodermdrome interpreter, and there's a proof eodermdrome is tc, but they didn't exist simultaneously so no one's ever got to test it. 23:45:27 nobody has a copy of the interpreter anymore? 23:45:44 oklofok lost it, and i don't think he ever gave anyone a copy 23:45:45 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:46:43 should be a SMOP 23:46:48 16:13:52: (joke: I actually don't know) 23:46:48 16:14:09: neither do i 23:46:53 i know *MWAHAHAHA* 23:46:56 me too 23:47:16 in fact i even found internet proof recently 23:47:17 :< 23:47:28 is it "Internet"? 23:47:35 wat 23:47:51 also, what's SMOP 23:48:00 Well. You never know. 23:48:12 small matter of programming? 23:48:25 precisely 23:48:45 i mean internet proof of what the I stands for 23:48:46 (usually used tongue-in-cheek) 23:49:18 Yes, I was suggesting that perhaps the I stands for "Internet" 23:49:22 nope 23:49:44 Well, I'm out of ideas 23:50:06 you know what the A and S stand for? 23:51:14 albatross sneezes 23:51:24 anachronistic seitch 23:51:24 yes, although I'm not sure if (a) I've remembered them correctly, and (b) if I'm okay to mention them on open channel anyway! 23:51:29 elliott: good, good 23:51:30 albatross imogen sneezes? 23:51:40 GreyKnight: you don't need to mention them 23:51:58 Phantom_Hoover, there was one of those in God-Emperor! 23:51:58 oh, sietch I mean 23:52:04 -!- monqy has joined. 23:52:13 monqy: hi 23:52:15 olsner: yes. 23:52:20 i'm not sure if i meant sietch or seitch 23:52:35 hello 23:52:35 monqy: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 23:52:42 The Fremen word is "sietch", I don't know if "seitch" is a word 23:52:46 oh, it was a mixup of 'sietch' and 'seich' 2012-12-09: 00:00:56 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: Reconnecting…). 00:05:25 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:14:29 > (++ "!!") . (>> "AA") $ "Hello world !" 00:14:31 "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!" 00:14:34 thought so. 00:15:25 > fix$(<$>)<$>(:)<*>((<$>((:[{- thor's mother -}])<$>))(=<<)<$>(*)<$>(*2))$1 00:15:27 [1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072,... 00:16:27 > let_in =let in'let'in=let in let in" let" in let in let 00:16:29 :1:8: parse error on input `=' 00:16:30 oops 00:16:37 the 'fix' is a bit annoying, would be nice to replace that with something that doesn't have letters 00:18:10 > let_in =let in'let'in=let in let in" let" in let in let let'in let_ _in = let_>>_in in in'let'in++ let in_let'in=let in " let in let" in let'in in_let'in in'let'in 00:18:12 :1:8: parse error on input `=' 00:18:16 darn 00:18:34 oh wait it's a declaration 00:18:39 oerjan: I don't see any lens here!! 00:18:44 > let let_in =let in'let'in=let in let in" let" in let in let let'in let_ _in = let_>>_in in in'let'in++ let in_let'in=let in " let in let" in let'in in_let'in in'let'in in let_in 00:18:46 " let let let let let let let let let let let let" 00:18:47 olde style haskell 00:19:11 elliott: how do you expect uncyclopedia to wrap their heads around lenses? 00:19:16 @time 00:19:17 Local time for Phantom_Hoover is Sun Dec 9 01:17:51 00:19:24 no bad lambdabot 00:19:30 at least my conclusion i could ignore the indentation was correct. 00:20:07 hey elliott is it twenty past one or twenty past midnight 00:20:20 mi'ight 00:20:33 right 00:20:35 Why thor's mother particularly? 00:20:46 GreyKnight, because oerjan is from norway 00:21:30 it's twenty one past one hth 00:21:41 it's not my code 00:22:04 That just raises more questions! 00:22:26 a true norwegian would use her actual name anyway... excuse me o moment... 00:22:29 *a 00:24:16 darn Frigg is only his stepmother 00:25:42 ok after browsing wikipedia i conclude the reason is no one knows her name. 00:25:58 A true Norwegian would know her actual name 00:26:28 oh wait it's Fjörgyn 00:27:41 GreyKnight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk 00:28:08 I can't youtube on this connection really 00:28:13 OKAY 00:28:34 maybe i can find something imgur 00:28:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:30:16 GreyKnight: http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/1/13/Thats_the_joke.jpg 00:30:21 hth 00:30:47 maybe this is the one time i should have used a url shortener 00:30:51 Well excuuuse me, princess! 00:31:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:31:58 * oerjan royally swatteth GreyKnight -----### 00:32:28 *splat* 00:32:29 the original version on uncyclopedia had "OH MY GOD IT'S A COMMENT!!!" in that comment 00:34:27 oh is that where they're from 00:35:10 Are you going to add something ridiculous to their article to celebrate the successful creation of lens? (which I don't really understand, by the way) 00:35:41 GreyKnight: clearly that's elliott's job 00:36:11 you're appointing elliott to handle PR? Are you mad? :-o 00:36:11 there are only two people who understand lens, and edwardk is too busy 00:38:13 GreyKnight: elliott already handles PR, that's why we have so little 00:38:29 oops i'm being mean 00:38:40 * oerjan swats himself -----### 00:38:40 oerjan: you can atone for your meanness by opping me. 00:38:56 too late, i already swatted 00:39:19 we have PR? 00:39:57 the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. 00:41:25 "Be lazy about it"? 00:41:58 We have Perpendicular Recording. 00:41:58 no, "avoid success at all costs" 00:43:41 `addquote we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. "avoid success at all costs" 00:43:48 860) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. "avoid success at all costs" 00:44:20 that is no quote 00:44:48 I only slightly touched up the last bit to remove all trace of my superfluous comment 00:45:11 oerjan: please swat GreyKnight as his first introduction to the Quoting Standards 00:45:11 as it wasn't funny 00:46:03 * oerjan swats GreyKnight -----### 00:46:30 `delquote 860 00:46:34 ​*poof* we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. "avoid success at all costs" 00:46:37 ow :< 00:46:55 `addquote we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] "avoid success at all costs" 00:46:58 860) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] "avoid success at all costs" 00:47:08 oerjan: swat yourself for disobeying the quoting standards too! 00:47:26 oh hm 00:47:29 `delquote 860 00:47:33 ​*poof* we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] "avoid success at all costs" 00:47:54 I recommend not adding that quote at all. 00:47:56 `addquote we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid success at all costs" 00:47:59 860) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid success at all costs" 00:48:02 >:) 00:48:52 * oerjan swats himself -----### 00:48:54 almost forgot 00:52:14 oerjan: Are you saying that elliott doesn't understand lens or that I don't? 00:52:47 shachaf: or perhaps that you and elliott are the same person 00:53:10 Or maybe that edwardk doesn't understand lens. 00:54:38 shachaf: i'm really just making an excuse to not attempt to understand them myself 00:54:52 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:54:57 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:06 I think lens is missing a way to translate ursala pointer expressions into their corresponding lenses 00:55:14 oerjan: Do you understand mapM? 00:55:18 yes. 00:55:23 Do you understand Applicative? 00:55:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:55:32 shachaf: that wasn't a request to attempt to teach me, btw 00:55:41 Sure. 00:55:48 The point is, you already understand lens. 00:56:21 no i very vaguely understand lens, which is something entirely different. 00:56:25 Unfortunately, nobody can be told what lens is. You have to see it for yourself. 00:57:24 Focus, GreyKnight. 00:57:34 :t focus 00:57:35 (Functor f, Indexable (Tape (h :> a)) k) => k (a -> f a) ((h :> a) -> f (h :> a)) 00:57:39 Pah. 00:57:43 focus isn't even lens-related. 00:57:51 ...Well, other than the fact that it's a lens. 00:57:52 *gasp* 00:57:59 But that's incidental! 00:58:18 focus isn't even lens-related. <-- can I quote that too? 00:58:22 :t rainbow 00:58:23 Not in scope: `rainbow' 00:58:29 I SEE SOMETHING MISSING 00:58:36 :t spectrum 00:58:37 Not in scope: `spectrum' 00:58:38 GreyKnight: I recommend not. 00:58:43 You need to develop taste. 00:58:50 (I probably do too.) 00:59:01 oerjan: Hey, we're getting there! 00:59:03 aw man :< 00:59:07 Prisms were only added in the last release. 00:59:10 @quote _why taste 00:59:10 No quotes for this person. I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler. 00:59:11 i know 00:59:12 Aw. 01:00:02 _why is slowly trawling the internet, removing all evidence he ever existed 01:00:21 @quote _why 01:00:21 No quotes match. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. 01:00:27 @quote taste 01:00:27 davidhasselh0f says: [on SPJ's "A Taste of Haskell" tutorial]: It's better than sex. 01:02:55 -!- greyooze has joined. 01:03:25 zzo38: gentoo 01:04:12 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:04:20 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 01:05:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:07:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:10:21 GreyKnight: I don't know. 01:11:03 @quote why 01:11:03 cheezey says: who is islands and why does my dick hurt 01:11:09 what 01:12:25 important questions, surely 01:14:41 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 01:15:06 they're coming for the bots again 01:16:57 You are? 01:16:58 Are HackEgo and EgoBot related? Cousins? 01:17:24 I think they are related. 01:19:49 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:21:12 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:44 GreyKnight: they're both Gregor's, and i think they share some sandboxing code; he keeps meaning to merge them. 01:22:59 Mmmhmm. 01:23:20 I don't merge them mainly because HackEgo is slow, and I'm too lazy to make elliott's patches to make it fast run on my server. 01:23:52 always with the strange reasons 01:25:33 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:56 Really, REALLY what I'd like is for somebody to implement hgfs in fuse. 01:26:03 That would make everything perfect and wonderful. 01:26:55 as in mercurial? 01:29:55 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:32:01 Yes 01:33:54 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 01:36:42 I'm vaguely surprised it doesn't already exist 01:38:45 Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. 01:39:19 Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D 01:43:17 `addquote Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D 01:43:20 861) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D 01:49:04 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:14 Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” 01:52:54 `run sed -i quotes '861s/$/ Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.”/' 01:52:57 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:53:01 darn 01:54:04 `run echo '861s/$/ Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.”/' 01:54:08 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:54:21 -!- carado has joined. 01:54:30 `run echo '861s/$/ Right, yeah. \“Can't get the damned thing working.\”/' 01:54:34 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 01:54:40 oerjan: I think the ' in can't is screwing you up 01:54:41 Ha 01:54:46 ...oh 01:55:02 `run sed -i quotes '861s/$/ Right, yeah. “Can'"'"'t get the damned thing working.”/' 01:55:05 sed: -e expression #1, char 2: extra characters after command 01:55:09 fff 01:56:04 `run sed -i quotes -e '861s/$/ Right, yeah. “Can'"'"'t get the damned thing working.”/' quotes 01:56:08 No output. 01:56:11 yay! 01:56:15 `quote 861 01:56:19 861) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” 01:56:27 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 01:56:33 `revert 01:56:36 Done. 01:56:39 `quote 861 01:56:42 861) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D 01:56:53 wtf 01:57:16 `run sed -i quotes -e '861s/$/ Right, yeah. “Can'"'"'t get the damned thing working.”/' 01:57:19 No output. 01:57:22 `quote 861 01:57:25 861) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” 01:57:29 Is it sed in here or is it just me? 01:57:31 sheesh :P 01:57:55 You get u-sed to it 01:59:22 * oerjan thinks FireFly is used to something else -----### 02:01:19 ∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀∀ 02:01:47 oerjan: you need a [...]. 02:02:12 ~~quoting standards~~ 02:02:15 ...sigh 02:02:55 `run sed -i quotes -e '861s/X-D /X-D [...]/' 02:02:58 No output. 02:03:05 `quote 861 02:03:09 861) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D [...] Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” 02:03:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:03:50 -!- DH____ has joined. 02:21:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:21:40 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:21:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:27:03 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:27:08 -!- DH____ has joined. 02:35:49 "European consumers of horse meat are increasingly suspicious of a supply chain that they fear contains drugs injected in American racehorses." 02:45:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:45:58 -!- evitable has joined. 02:46:19 oh it's myndzi 02:46:35 ^celebrate 02:46:35 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 02:46:40 BOOOOOOO 02:47:19 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 02:58:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:58:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:58:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:58:54 -!- DH____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:59:56 myndzi! 03:00:25 kmc: Did you end up getting that laptop thing? 03:02:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:03:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:12:07 oerjan: hey should I update the wiki and fix the /// thing 03:12:20 shachaf: which? 03:12:22 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:38 you mean the laptop i ordered? 03:12:47 Yes. 03:12:53 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:13:01 And then the order was cancelled, or uncancelled, or something. 03:13:21 yeah 03:13:38 it is currently in a state of limbo 03:14:03 lenovo's website (when it is not down) indicates that the order is due to be shipped in a week and a half 03:14:11 and is currently "released to manufacturing" 03:14:15 however the credit card got un-charged 03:14:21 so i might get a free laptop 03:14:23 or no laptop 03:14:31 or a coffee can full of angry bees 03:14:48 i think if it turns out that the order was cancelled again, and they neglected to notify me again 03:14:57 then i can't really in good conscience order another lenovo laptop 03:15:02 but i don't know what i will get 03:15:04 At worst your credit card will get recharged. 03:15:12 When was the last time you recharged your credit card? 03:15:14 Those things run out. 03:15:18 :3 03:16:25 my current laptop basically works though 03:16:49 it can even play 8 year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game 03:18:17 virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory 03:18:21 I like how I can't compile C++ programs. 03:20:15 elliott: yes. 03:20:44 what about C/C++ programs 03:21:29 `addquote my current laptop basically works though it can even play 8 year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game 03:21:31 862) my current laptop basically works though it can even play 8 year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game 03:21:42 oerjan: tough! 03:21:43 elliott: am i too much a sucker for quotes? 03:21:44 I'm too lazy 03:23:15 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:23:58 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 03:24:01 elliott: The world is a better place with you not being able to compile C++ programs. 03:24:16 ooh, a radixal hello world already. 03:24:34 *radixal!!!! HELL0 W0RLD! 03:24:35 radixal/radixal!!!! 03:24:59 radixal radish 03:27:15 "[..] concept of Lazy programming, a technique used to avoid telling the computer m is running, saving developers from needing to code things that won't be used." ..rofl 03:27:33 that is exactly what i need 03:28:16 -!- ogrom has joined. 03:28:45 -!- ogrom has left. 03:29:54 -!- Sgeo|UPDATE has joined. 03:30:37 elliott: monqy Fiora 03:30:58 hi Sgeo|UPDATE 03:31:24 Hi shachaf "no |" shachaf 03:39:32 -!- TeruFSX2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:42:42 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:42:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:46:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 03:46:16 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:51:55 "The paper you linked to, which I assume you wrote, is both poorly written and idiotic." 03:52:30 (comment on http://phys.org/news/2012-12-oxygen-nucleus-neutrons-shown-surprisingly.html) 04:03:56 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:13:30 http://vacuum-mechanics.com/ very good 04:16:49 Is it an attempt to make GR and QM fit within a model that makes sense to a classical intuition? 04:18:34 it's both poorly written and idiotic that's what 04:18:52 sounds like a good fit for this channel 04:19:12 excellent 04:19:21 I'd call anything that meets what I described "idiotic" 04:19:29 Although I guess not necessarily poorly written 04:20:00 miscellaneous stupid question time, is "list of length 7" a type expressible in haskell 04:20:10 Yes. 04:20:17 kay. 04:20:25 It might be awkward, though. 04:20:34 Here's one way: data L7 a = L7 a a a a a a a 04:21:13 Thought: 04:21:19 And that works with conses, [a] or whatever? 04:21:27 No, it's its own type. 04:21:27 data L7 a = L7 a (L6 a) 04:21:29 or are L7 a and [a] disjoint. 04:21:34 right, okay, thanks. 04:21:38 No, they're not the same type. 04:21:38 type L7 a = (a,(a,(a,(a,(a,(a,(a,()))))))) 04:21:45 sgeo....there are better ways to do that.... 04:22:24 What oerjan did, I assume 04:22:25 Bike: you cannot make useful subtypes of [a] in haskell 04:22:36 Bike: you can also actually put the length in the type etc. it is awkward to use though. try agda 04:22:45 it's "not dependently typed" 04:22:48 type LUpto7 = Maybe (a, Maybe (a, Maybe (a, Maybe (a, Maybe (a, Maybe (a, Maybe a)))))) 04:23:13 sgeo have you ever heard of actually putting the length in the type etc. 04:23:42 oerjan, elliott: got it, thanks, i should have asked that in the first place 04:23:45 Not as an actual 7, but as some ... thingy 04:24:09 I think? 04:24:43 a type-level 7. recent ghc versions have support for interpreting a 7 as a type 04:24:52 oerjan: Except not really. 04:25:19 well, support for the syntax anyway 04:25:44 Yay, syntax. 04:25:58 i hear they removed some of the ability to do arithmetic again 04:26:46 anyway, r/haskell time 04:27:12 Are you going to post your second post?! 04:27:39 unlikely. 04:27:53 a comment might happen. 04:28:26 oerjan: I heard there was a "pretty cool lens post" 04:32:19 elliott: Fiora monqy again 04:32:42 hi 04:32:53 hi monqy 04:33:02 hi shachaf 04:33:03 hi relapsing monqy 04:33:11 monqy: what's an "again" 04:33:18 I found the description of the PADsynth. 04:33:21 shachaf: it's you 04:33:26 shachaf: you're on the list 04:33:31 oh no 04:33:33 what list 04:33:55 `quote 04:33:55 `quote 04:33:55 `quote 04:33:55 `quote 04:33:56 `quote 04:34:06 233) My STRN.G detects runoff strings that haven't been terminated but would hit a zero after wrapping and tries to allocate the 16+-gigabyte-stack required 04:34:53 480) IM FIST IN HEAD AND DONT KNOW TO SLEEP?????? 04:34:55 536) according to physics and maths can we theoretically have a box with infinite cookies inside? 04:34:55 685) fizzie: What kind of speech recognition do you do? If you only need to recognize famous speeches, like Churchill or something, it should be pretty easy. 04:34:56 423) Deewiant: So you... reverse the byte order manually, but then call ntohl too? fizzie: The host might be big-endian! 04:35:00 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:35:02 imo 860 04:35:23 also 685 04:35:30 monqy: what's yr vote 04:35:51 480 04:36:06 480 and 860 and 685 04:36:10 shachaf. no. 04:36:15 the biggest deletion ever 04:36:20 monqy: ok ok we can spare 685 04:37:32 I don't see 860 on there 04:37:42 `quote 860 04:37:46 860) we have PR? the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] [...] "avoid success at all costs" 04:38:13 IT'S NOT A CANDIDATE DAMMIT 04:38:21 `delquote 480 04:38:25 ​*poof* IM FIST IN HEAD AND DONT KNOW TO SLEEP?????? 04:38:36 someone else can do 860 if they wants to 04:38:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:38:44 i liked 480 04:38:45 rip my quote 04:38:52 `quote 04:38:52 `quote 04:38:52 `quote 04:38:52 `quote 04:38:53 `quote 04:38:57 imo 860 this time 04:39:05 242) If you want to use TeX formats invented by Christians, use Plain TeX. However, I do not think the religion of its author is a good way to decide what to use. I decide to use Plain TeX for its own reasons. 04:39:30 What's with the really long delay between the first quote and the next 4? 04:39:34 150) It's only been 2 months since anyone last made a commit! WRONG 8 WEEKS 04:39:34 289) I think I managed to make Stack Overflow work on gopher, now. 04:39:45 687) When you die in Canada, you die in real life. 04:39:46 562) The moon is a much better target for colonisation because it would be IRCable. 04:40:59 687 04:41:35 242 is the only really good one in this batch imo.......... and maybe 289 is good too? because of gopher.... 04:41:52 242 and 289 are both good 04:42:05 I like 289 and 242 and 687 (zzo38 making bad references makes them good references) 04:42:10 zzo38: you are powerful 04:42:11 Yes, I agree those are good, 687 is not as good as the others. 04:42:18 `quote 38 04:42:26 38) actually, I pretended to be a hobo to get directions 04:42:34 someone needs to make 38 a zzo38 quote 04:42:40 687 should be deleted. 04:42:43 can I nominate 562 04:42:57 687 is bad because i looked it up and it's from xkcd 04:43:00 it's my least favourite of the bunch and would be so even if I didn't write it 04:43:14 150 and 562 are both mediocre 04:43:20 687 is worse 04:43:22 687 seems like an old joke 04:43:35 `quote 04:43:37 226) (the former is a very deep theorem, i'd have had to read the whole book to understand it, so i didn't.) 04:43:38 sgeo 04:43:39 `quote 04:43:43 805) ubuntu is the solaris of the cola world 04:43:43 `delquote 562 04:43:44 `quote 04:43:45 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:43:48 ​*poof* The moon is a much better target for colonisation because it would be IRCable. 04:43:50 made an eggsecutive decision 04:43:53 `quote 04:43:56 `quote 04:43:56 353) Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be? 04:43:57 `quote 04:43:57 `delquote 686 04:44:08 505) we need more films aimed at the lucrative irc nerd demographic 04:44:14 Well, you can still refer properly by the date and quotation number together, since I think all changes are logged? 04:44:15 shachaf what did you do 04:44:24 300) o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's called "not being a mammal" :P 04:44:24 `quote 04:44:28 monqy: oops 04:44:29 300) o.O There's a birth defect which results in the formation of a cloaca. It's called "not being a mammal" :P 04:44:30 kmc..... 04:44:31 monqy: Did I do something bad? 04:44:35 `delquote 353 04:44:37 I don't really think you should just go and delete a lot of them, though. 04:44:38 821) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday 04:44:39 kmc it 04:44:40 ​*poof* When you die in Canada, you die in real life. 04:44:41 you have to wait for it to 04:44:41 ​*poof* Sgeo: also do you know how to write a parser monqy, how hard could it be? 04:44:42 it'll 04:44:45 oh god 04:44:47 kmc................. 04:45:00 kmc has snapped 04:45:04 have i 04:45:04 `revert 970 04:45:06 Done. 04:45:14 what did you revert 04:45:15 elliott: What are you doing?! 04:45:18 You can't revert. 04:45:19 help im confused 04:45:19 "pro tip" don't do anything to hackego after doing anything to it 04:45:25 it messes up horribly you have to wait 04:45:26 `quote 04:45:27 `quote 04:45:27 `quote 04:45:27 `quote 04:45:30 i just asked for 6 quotes 04:45:30 `quote 04:45:36 Those are other reasons I think you should not delete them. 04:45:37 right but then you deleted one 04:45:37 wanted to ask for 5 but messed up 04:45:39 hackego isn't "linear" 04:45:40 558) But whereas the Zune UI makes one think "I want to kill myself", the Windows CE UI makes one think "I want to kill myself, but first kill my parents as punishment for bringing into this world someone who would one day own a Windows CE device." 04:45:43 269) Is anyone in here who knows cricket rules and has experience? What if I told you the baseball rules in a british accent? 04:45:44 Because it mix up such things like that. 04:45:44 isn't that the thing to do 04:45:57 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 04:45:58 it's fashionable 04:45:59 276) ZOMGMODULES, St. Christopher, saint and werewolf. 04:45:59 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 04:46:01 but causing branch merges isn't 04:46:02 25) PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers 04:46:04 712) rephtrase 04:46:16 712 wat 04:46:40 branch merges? 04:46:41 what? 04:46:47 oerjan: help why do you talk about me in your reddit comments 04:47:11 Even though, it is true some I don't like as much, other I do like them better, but not everyone same opinion, and will mix up numbering. But even then you can work around by using dates instead, to keep list of all of them even if deleted, refer by date. 04:47:25 kmc: basically hackego is not a regular linux system 04:47:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:47:38 it is parallel: each command clones the fs, does the command, commits 04:47:45 and then if you have two that run at the same time it merges the results at the end 04:47:57 that means if you do two delquotes in quick succession they have a good chance of deleting different quotes 04:48:00 because the numbers change 04:48:04 different as in 04:48:05 wrong 04:48:05 Gregor: Can we have root support on HackEgo? 04:48:13 that sounds kind of insane 04:48:19 welcome to hackego 04:48:19 shachaf: No (even though I am not Gregor) 04:48:20 what the fuck 04:48:28 i wrote a better version once but it was broken 04:48:32 i mean, i saw that it was a linux system and thought that was insane 04:48:32 `whoami 04:48:33 does it use git or what 04:48:35 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 04:48:37 kmc: hg 04:48:37 kmc: hg 04:48:39 but no, go ahead and outdo yourself, why doncha 04:48:43 kmc: hg 04:48:46 wow 04:48:47 kmc, mercurial 04:48:47 kmc: hg 04:48:48 well this way you can revert it when someone fucks up 04:48:50 kmc: hg 04:48:53 say by running two commands too quickly 04:49:00 that is crazy 04:49:05 kmc: Check out umlbox. 04:49:12 this is why hackego takes 100 hours to run anything btw 04:49:18 `delquote 712 04:49:23 ​*poof* rephtrase 04:49:24 elliott: Show me a working FUSE hgfs and I will fix it INSTANTANEOUSLY 04:49:26 okay but that's not touching the ultimate problem, which is that you're using a linux system as an irc bot what 04:49:30 i just made a remote server boot up linux 04:49:32 Elsewise I've had some thoughts regarding unionfs-fuse. 04:49:34 and commit to hg 04:49:36 and stuff 04:49:41 Bike: It gets better. 04:49:42 Bike: it's extensible 04:49:43 Bike: That's not a problem, that's a solution. 04:49:52 this channel earned its name 04:49:54 technically it's not really one linux system 04:49:55 Bike: IIRC the Linux kernel is being booted for each command. 04:49:59 since it boots up a new one every time - yeah 04:50:09 yes i heard that before but didn't believe it 04:50:21 umlbox itself isn't slow, the slowness is from the hg nonsense. 04:50:23 Can you somehow to read all the quotation from the repository and assign date, and then to make it the file of quotations by date? And then if there is more you can add on from the date specified. 04:50:24 is the linux kernel also written in javascript 04:50:30 Bike: No, it's just UML. 04:50:36 pikhq: cool 04:50:39 rad 04:50:41 Gregor: If it's running in UML then why can't we run as root? 04:50:48 Gregor: Wouldn't a FUSE hgfs linearise all commands? 04:51:11 shachaf: Slightly more sandboxing. 04:51:12 shachaf: UML root is effectively the UML-executing user. 04:51:19 Also that. 04:51:20 “Slightly” more = much more X-D 04:51:27 transactional! 04:51:27 ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 04:51:30 oerjan: help why do you talk about me in your reddit comments <-- when? 04:51:38 oerjan: In the past. 04:51:40 elliott: Um… maybe? No more than currently, I mean the current version has to do merge crap. 04:51:48 Gregor: right but how would a fuse fs help 04:52:02 elliott: It wouldn't help with that, it would avoid having to do an actual hg clone. 04:52:26 oerjan: <$> 04:52:40 Gregor: hmmmmm 04:52:55 Gregor: but how would multiple commands that modify stuff running at once work? 04:53:01 `addquote i wrote a better version once but it was broken 04:53:02 elliott: Same as current, merge. 04:53:04 860) i wrote a better version once but it was broken 04:53:06 right but... 04:53:09 `quote 759 04:53:10 where would they write their changes to 04:53:12 759) A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you 04:53:15 if they are both operating on the same clone 04:53:17 oh hm 04:53:18 759 is good 04:53:21 i guess they don't need a clone at all 04:53:23 `quote 859 04:53:27 859) my current laptop basically works though it can even play 8 year old video games as long as it is not raining in the game 04:53:31 `quote 858 04:53:31 elliott: What I want is a FS that exposes a single revision, and when you unmount it, commits one with that revision as parent. 04:53:34 858) Apparently http://code.google.com/p/hgfs/ now exists. Oh, that's 2008. I'm sure I would've found it and rejected it for some reason before then X-D [...] Right, yeah. “Can't get the damned thing working.” 04:53:37 anyway transactional hackego would still be better!! 04:53:40 There's no clone, there's no tip, it's just whatever is most recent. 04:53:43 Errr 04:53:47 It's just whatever was requested. 04:53:53 Yes, transactional hackego WOULD be better. 04:54:12 than that I mean 04:54:14 since you could ~combine them~ 04:54:20 transcendental hackego would be better 04:54:29 i humbly propose rewriting the whole fucking thing to not suck 04:54:44 Hey, at least it ain't Plash anymore. 04:54:46 all in favour say i 04:54:52 yeah, have it use bsd instead 04:54:57 Gregor: Is it possible to access and filter all the changes for ones adding to the quote file? 04:54:58 elliott: better idea: 04:55:03 rewrite lambdabot!!!!!!!!! 04:55:10 zzo38: Easily. 04:55:17 zzo38: Just hg blame quotes 04:55:26 not easily since Gregor keeps resetting the repo :P 04:55:28 but you can grep logs for addquote 04:55:31 Oh yeah ^^ 04:55:48 Bike: disappointed that yr VERSION reply does not disclose OS 04:55:49 no i don't actually use bsd 04:55:49 `pastlog `addquote 04:56:04 elliott: Really, I'm probably overthinking the whole thing. They could just all tromp on each other, and so long as they commit when they're done, you can still revert if things go wrong. 04:56:06 anyway i'm going to assume that lambdabot is written in an agda implementation targeted to compile to befunge-based hardware 04:56:07 "This is completely untested and almost certainly doesn't work, but it should in a commit or three." -- me, approximately two pages of commits down 04:56:10 (the tip still does not work) 04:56:11 oerjan: In the past. <-- well i didn't see it. 04:56:22 2011-12-26.txt:15:58:03: `addquote [...] So if someone tells you "you're worth your weight in Ethernet", it's likely they think your worth is less than $2k. 04:56:27 Why you keep resetting the repo too much? Well yes you can check for addquote but, what happen if some other file adds it? 04:56:37 oerjan: It's on your front page. 04:56:38 Gregor: that is basically transactional hackego's design... assume everything is read-only, if writes happen kill everything, run the write, and then try everything else again 04:56:47 i still don't use bsd, pikhq 04:56:58 slow but properly linearised if you do a bunch of writes, really fast if you do lots of reads 04:56:58 elliott: Right, but I'm proposing, don't even kill anything. Just let it go. 04:57:03 you bastard 04:57:06 that could work 04:57:11 but you'd want to stop it committing at the end at least 04:57:16 Why? 04:57:21 well 04:57:25 If it does, and it's wrong, you can revert it. 04:57:30 I guess you could force a revert after that 04:57:34 but the way I did it, killing it had no overhead 04:57:45 The way you did it doesn't work yet X-D 04:57:47 oerjan: <$> <-- now you are just being annoying. 04:57:48 because the filesystem knew as soon as the program wanted to write to a file 04:57:48 well yes 04:57:51 SMOP!!! SMOP 04:58:21 I'm proposing "fuck safety" as an intermediate step before correct transactions :) 04:58:48 how would that work if you deleted two quotes in quick succession 04:58:52 the whole problem isn't really one of safety 04:59:02 it's that HackEgo's semantics are non-linear which is really annoying for an imperative UI 04:59:11 I guess it'd be no worse but faster though 04:59:17 so sure, that works :P 04:59:18 elliott: Right. It's no worse, but faster. 04:59:28 The only way that it's worse is that changes can be assigned to the wrong revision. 04:59:29 I thought it was meant to be a solution that linearised stuff 04:59:30 Big fucking whoop. 04:59:34 No, it's a nonsolution. 04:59:36 well 04:59:44 I do find that quite annoying 04:59:51 since it is useful to find what quotes people deleted :P 04:59:54 but yes as a temporary thing 04:59:54 kmc: Did you ever hear about let uc x = y where y :: a; y = x where z = id x 05:00:24 How can you access all the logs? Since sometimes it says too much outputs isn't it? 05:00:29 !logs 05:00:41 shachaf: i think so but remind me 05:00:43 05:00:30 -glogbot(codu@codu.org)- Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ . Also available via rsync: rsync --size-only -avz rsync://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ logs/ 05:00:53 kmc: Well, it's unsafeCoerce in GHC 7.4 05:00:55 That's it, really. 05:01:20 Maybe in 7.6 too 05:01:23 oh really 05:01:30 fun times 05:01:33 I mean, how to search all of the logs, without stopping, and without having to download all of them 05:01:45 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7453 05:02:02 elliott: Hm, maybe we can build something transactional but easy out of a unionfs… we union the repo (read only) and a write dir (read/write), then allow things to run, and if any files are detected in the write dir, then we lock and retry. It's exactly the same, but only needs unionfs(-fuse) and flock. 05:02:08 If it take too long, make it to specify the start of the search, so that if it stopped, it can start again from that point. 05:02:33 shachaf: wow 05:02:47 `run ls /var/logs/_esoteric 05:02:50 ls: cannot access /var/logs/_esoteric: No such file or directory 05:02:52 Err 05:02:53 shachaf: oh there it was 05:02:58 Gregor: sounds workable... transactional hackego was pretty simple tho 05:02:59 `run ls /var/irclogs/_esoteric 05:03:03 2003-01-18-raw.txt \ 2003-01-18.txt \ 2003-01-19-raw.txt \ 2003-01-19.txt \ 2003-01-20-raw.txt \ 2003-01-20.txt \ 2003-01-21-raw.txt \ 2003-01-21.txt \ 2003-01-22-raw.txt \ 2003-01-22.txt \ 2003-01-23-raw.txt \ 2003-01-23.txt \ 2003-01-24-raw.txt \ 2003-01-24.txt \ 2003-01-25-raw.txt \ 2003-01-25.txt \ 2003-01-26-raw.txt \ 2003-01-26.txt \ 2003-01-27-raw.txt \ 2003-01-27.txt \ 2003-01-28-raw.txt \ 2003-01-28.txt 05:03:04 Why would it be deliberatley left in? 05:03:05 elliott: BUT IT DOESN'T WORK X-D 05:03:38 Gregor: well the only "special" thing about it was https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/src/98ba00876ef8d81308738f1ccc10a8d624140252/multibot_cmds/lib/server 05:03:42 er except 05:03:55 https://bitbucket.org/ehird/hackbot/src/de8cb5a0df659f82dc594724c685c819c39d26b9/multibot_cmds/lib/server?at=default 05:05:04 Gregor: that said: in retrospect I have no fucking idea how this is supposed to work 05:05:09 but I do remember the basic idea was simple 05:05:34 :) 05:05:37 seems like none of the stuff invoked lib/server 05:05:40 so you had to run it separately 05:06:15 Well that's fine. 05:06:39 + ['hg', '-R', self.hackenv, 'status', '-umad'], 05:06:47 did it really have to be 05:07:00 Gregor: okay so this thing actually didn't kill stuff! 05:07:06 it would run full commands no matter what 05:07:11 just it would try again if they turned out to have actually changed stuff 05:07:16 so that unionfs would indeed be more efficient 05:07:44 Err, the unionfs thing I most recently proposed does the same. 05:07:53 It's just a different mechanism for detecting if they've changed shit. 05:08:08 shachaf: now i want to write an exploit for lambdabot or something 05:08:34 In fact, wait… why does the hg status -umad mechanism need a server process at all? The process could just check it directly, and use a flock to make sure nobody competes improperly. 05:08:39 > let uc x = y where y :: a; y = x where z = id x in uc (2 :: Int) :: Float 05:08:40 Couldn't match type `t' with `a1' 05:08:40 `t' is a rigid type variable bound by 05:08:40 ... 05:08:44 kmc: Due to a quirk it doesn't work in lambdabot. 05:08:48 Gregor: I have no idea. 05:08:49 oh which quirk? 05:08:55 The quirk is that mueval was compiled with GHC 6.12 so it uses GHC 6.12's type checker. 05:08:57 Gregor: All I know is lib/server coordinates stuff. 05:08:57 elliott: Well… that seems infinitely simpler… 05:09:04 But a flock could coordinate stuff X-D 05:09:09 oh 05:09:11 Gregor: I'm pretty sure there's a reason I did stuff like this, but I don't know it. 05:09:14 Gregor: Oh 05:09:17 this was introduced in the mega type checker rewrite? 05:09:17 Delightfully fragile, isn't it. 05:09:18 Gregor: It's because something has to restart the stuff 05:09:27 i.e. rerun the stuff that wanted to write 05:09:29 elliott: They could restart themselves! 05:09:31 then rerun the other stuff 05:09:37 Not sure when it was introduced, but it doesn't work in 6.12, I think. 05:09:39 Gregor: That's gross when there's a single order you want to do stuff in 05:09:46 shachaf: i was arguing with ezyang the other day on whether SafeHaskell provides sandboxing "for free" (his claim) 05:09:53 my claim is that it does not, for reasons like this one :) 05:09:58 elliott: Ohhhh, it made sure that the order was always as they appeared in IRC? 05:10:02 well this is just a sandbox bug 05:10:02 the GHC type checker and RTS have not been vetted that carefully for holes 05:10:07 like a bug in any other security mechanism 05:10:14 Gregor: Right, that's the whole idea 05:10:24 elliott: I think the point is that SPJ doesn't think of GHC's type checker as a sandbox. 05:10:24 sure, i'm saying that SafeHaskell is a buggy sandbox mechanism at present 05:10:27 Gregor: HackEgo should act as if it is running commands in sequence, no multithreading 05:10:29 Also that GHC's type checker is complicated. 05:10:36 because when it differs from that behaviour it's always annoying 05:10:40 elliott: Well, IMHO, the more important notion is getting them all to run serializably, not in the order seen *shrugs* 05:10:42 i think maybe we think of it that way now, but there were 20+ years of development where we didn't 05:10:49 the only reason *not* to run stuff in sequence is because it'd be slow 05:10:51 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7453 <-- doesn't load for me... but so much for Safe Haskell allowing running untrusted code, i guess... 05:10:54 kind of like how the linux kernel was a toy for many years and so developed egregious security practices 05:11:03 elliott: And because it needs a separate coordinator… 05:11:08 now it loaded 05:11:14 Gregor: sure, but it's hardly heavy-weight, I just never tested it properly :P 05:11:16 oerjan: Loads for m.e 05:11:29 it was 150 lines of Python, I'm sure you could achieve the same thing with about as much code as it took me, just not broken 05:11:46 i wonder if any of those DOSBox crashes I found are exploitable 05:11:48 > appEndo (Endo ('a':) <> Endo ('b':)) [] 05:11:50 "ab" 05:12:28 Gregor: ALSO my patch removed code too 05:12:35 kmc: By a random sampling I did there are many different opcode sequences that'll crash it. 05:12:37 specifically the slox that is there for no reason 05:12:48 shachaf: yeah 05:12:53 I didn't look into it very deeply, but apparently they're not all the same one. 05:13:00 Since you said one of them was fixed in HEAD and another wasn't. 05:13:04 well there's a whole set of invalid Mod/RM bytes that will crash it 05:13:13 kmc: this is actually part of why I gave up working on @ 05:13:15 because there's a table of function pointers and the invalid ones are just NULL ;P 05:13:16 Is dosbox supposed to be secure? 05:13:21 Doesn't it just let you mount ~ anyway? 05:13:32 I realised that I really had to make it secure for the design to be worth anything and it was just out of my league to coordinate everything to work properly and securely on every level 05:14:11 elliott: also making @ was work 05:14:12 shachaf: it has a mode where such things are disabled, i think 05:14:31 kmc: Oh. 05:14:39 -securemode 05:15:40 SPJ pointed out that -dcore-lint catches this 05:15:52 so i guess that is becoming part of the not actually written down advice on using SafeHaskell safely 05:15:56 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 05:16:43 ah yes, since it's not _actually_ using unsafeCoerce it shouldn't be able to type as core 05:17:32 It's funny that Core is typed. 05:17:37 perhaps SafeHaskell should imply -dcore-lint automatically >:) 05:17:55 yeah that's one of ghc's major innovations, afaiu 05:18:05 oerjan: it shouldn't be able to type as haskell either 05:18:45 elliott: of course, but core is simple enough that you stand a fighting chance of type checking being bug free (although it isn't, of course) 05:19:15 programming as reductionism as ever 05:19:21 Core is uninferrable, right? 05:19:26 right 05:19:41 but explicitly typed, so you don't need it 05:19:49 i think there are plenty of ways to write unsafeCoerce in core, though 05:19:58 so if you can get the frontend to emit one of those through a bug, you still win 05:20:02 kmc: don't they all involve explicitly using the unsafe "cast" 05:20:11 since core casts require evidence 05:20:18 it just has a special "unsafe" evidence term that works for any coercion 05:20:23 what about newtype deriving for example 05:20:27 right 05:20:29 that's known broken of course 05:20:40 i'm saying there are potentially many source-level constructs which can produce that unsafe cast 05:22:33 It would be fun to have security people looking for type checker bugs. 05:23:01 the number of people who could plausibly audit the type checker for correctness is very small 05:23:05 that's part of the problem 05:23:30 the number is larger for the RTS, since it's a concurrent operating system written in C, and there are lots of those in the world 05:27:10 Why is newtype deriving broken? 05:27:43 @google haskell newtype deriving unsafeCoerce 05:27:45 http://joyoftypes.blogspot.com/2012/08/generalizednewtypederiving-is.html 05:28:07 shachaf: btw i assumed mentioning you on r/haskell wasn't a problem given that you are already a regular there... 05:28:32 Given that this channel is logged anyway, I doubt it could be much of a problem. 05:44:34 shachaf: do you think that 'spoon' should be compiled as 'Trustworthy'? 05:44:55 there is no *hit by falling anvil* 05:45:42 womp womp 05:45:46 I think spoon shouldn't be compiled 05:45:59 kmc: Off-hand I can't think about any security issues with it, but... 05:46:24 ezyang claims that SafeHaskell makes it perfectly objectively clear what "safe" means 05:46:30 i am trying to think of interesting corner cases 05:46:52 Finally I made my implementation of PADsynth working, and it sound like good! 05:47:14 kmc: Recently we added a -fsafe flag to lens that doesn't use any unsafeCoerce. 05:47:18 (Though it still uses unsafePerformIO.) 05:47:19 another one that comes to mind is: typeRepKey (TypeRep (Key i) _ _) = return i 05:47:26 this is 'in the 'IO' monad because the actual value of the key may vary from run to run of the program' 05:47:31 However, it is very slow. 05:47:48 so clearly somebody thought it would be "unsafe" in some sense to not have "return" there 05:48:13 but is that the same sense as SafeHaskell "safe"? 05:48:26 maybe there is some document I have not seen which makes it perfectly clear 05:48:51 People use "unsafe" to mean lots of different things. 05:49:12 unsafeCoerce, unsafePerformIO, unsafePartialFunction 05:49:22 The size of Int may also vary from run to run of the program. 05:49:27 yeah 05:50:38 Also, it's not really the type system that keeps safe things apart from unsafe, which people sometimes claim. 05:50:42 It's just what happens to be in scope. 05:50:47 yeah 05:50:59 well yes and no 05:51:07 if you can write unsafeCoerce then you can circumvent that 05:51:13 type system soundness is necessary 05:51:23 Well, OK, sure. 05:54:18 Could you please look, and tell me how to make it fast? 05:54:48 Are you sure it sound like good? 05:54:55 I'm not sure whether I can look. 05:55:24 I think it sound like good, because I can hear it. And I can read the instructions. 05:57:43 http://zzo38computer.org/csound/csoundextraopcodes.c It is line 1785 05:58:36 Oh, zzo38. 06:02:52 Do you know how to make it fast? 06:03:41 No. 06:04:09 Did you write that file? 06:05:10 Yes, I did write this program, based on the descriptions from other documents. 06:10:50 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:11:01 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:11:39 Oh good, now it's completely broken :) 06:11:59 Gregor: What did you break? 06:12:04 HackEgo. 06:12:17 `echo hi 06:12:26 Now you have to fix it 06:13:24 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:13:26 @quote zzo38 06:13:26 zzo38 says: (I think his gopher is IPv6 only) 06:13:38 good quote 06:13:47 @quote zzo38 06:13:47 zzo38 says: (I think his gopher is IPv6 only) 06:13:55 @quote zzo38 06:13:55 zzo38 says: Such as, we try to make something similar to a combination of Haskell, C, BLISS, TeX, WEB, Prolog, INTERCAL, and Magic: the Gathering; and then make it with many things omitted such as 06:13:55 Unicode syntax, layout, do-notation, list comprehensions; and add in macros and stuff, and then make up something new...... 06:14:05 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:14:09 good quote 06:14:12 that sounds amazing 06:14:23 `echo q 06:14:24 q 06:14:27 `quote 06:14:28 259) elliott: there go my minutes of research!! 06:14:36 `quote zzo38 06:14:52 Hypothetically, it's transactional and serializable, but not guaranteed to be sequentially identical to the input order. 06:15:03 Gregor: Uh oh. 06:15:18 Alternatively, it could be totally broken *shrugs* 06:15:23 What we need is sha1 identifiers for quotes, instead of line numbers. 06:15:34 Hmm. 06:15:36 `echo hi 06:15:37 29) I am not on the moon. \ 123) Some people are reasonable, some people who are not reasonable insist on changing things so therefore progress depends on not reasonablepeple \ 159) catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream \ 183) zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number. It's broken? \ 188) I love the way zzo38's comment was cut off after the f o 06:15:39 Gregor: does it have the wrongly-attributed changes thing 06:15:41 Oh. 06:15:51 Ummmm 06:15:53 `echo wtf 06:15:54 wtf 06:15:58 ??? 06:16:02 elliott: No. 06:16:08 elliott: It is truly transactional. 06:16:14 Unless it's wholly broken :) 06:16:24 `ls 06:16:26 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 06:16:32 `quote Gregor 06:16:44 Maybe removing the line length limit wasn't such a good idea ^^ 06:16:48 `ls 06:16:49 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 45) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. \ 46) GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 48) ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? \ 86) I don' 06:19:30 `quote Gregor 06:19:42 ... I'll do my testing in #hackbot X-D 06:20:11 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:23:16 oerjan: is there any representation of type equality in Haskell that does not require rank-2 quantification? 06:23:22 -!- Sgeo|UPDATE has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:23:25 as in 06:23:37 (forall p. p a -> p b) is leibniz equality but has that forall 06:23:42 can you do some sort of skolem trick to avoid that 06:23:50 (haskell 2010) 06:25:08 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 06:25:26 aaaas if i would know 06:26:21 : *( 06:26:29 I bet shachaf knows 06:26:36 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 06:26:41 maybe. 06:26:47 * oerjan goes sulking in the corner 06:33:58 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 06:41:24 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:04:02 Do you know, who does know how to make this program fast? 07:12:34 11) GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 45) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. \ 46) GregorR: are you talking about ehird's virginity or your soda beer? \ 48) ??? Are the cocks actually just impPRIVMSG #hackbot :bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:12:49 Gregor: hm.... 07:13:02 oerjan: I knew that was going to happen, ignore it ;) 07:13:12 O KAY 07:14:01 * oerjan imagines Gregor having HackEgo's skull open and poking at parts of its brain 07:14:34 and occasionally shouting *MWAHAHAHAHA* 07:21:06 `quote yay 07:21:08 51) yay fire! * Madelon combusts spontaneously. \ 130) INTERNET YAY Said like a once-drowning man, rescued, taking a breath. \ 208) yay CDE \ 229) !bfjoust test (-)*10000 Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9 yay 07:21:13 Works now. 07:21:23 `quote 07:21:23 `quote 07:21:24 `quote 07:21:24 `quote 07:21:24 `quote 07:21:25 355) You have no idea how desperately I want to avoid being a GC guy :P Every year I go to ISMM and Doug Lea gives me a bizarrely-cheery "Hello!" and I'm like "awww shit I'm in memory management" 07:21:25 68) Invalid! Kill! Kill! I get that feeling too. 07:21:26 824) this sounds sort of like @ kmc well @ is the least upper bound of all ideas in computer science 07:21:26 198) And to think: if only we wouldn't celebrate birthdays, there would be no birthday paradox, and we could get by with half as long hash functions. (What do you mean it doesn't work that way?) 07:21:26 499) elliott_, oh they are people known in the ruby community? Vorpal: Uh... you mean Hannah Montana? elliott_, yeah. And Zed Shaw. Either they are that or they come from popular culture. 07:21:31 woah, dude 07:21:33 Gregor: it's too fast i preferred the old one 07:21:38 add a delay please 07:21:48 `cat bin/quote 07:21:49 #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 07:21:56 Gregor: so does this attribute changes correctly 07:22:03 * oerjan is with elliott 07:22:34 Gregor: so does this attribute changes correctly // what the hell does this mean 07:22:43 you said something about attributing changes to the wrong commit 07:22:52 That was in a non-transactional version. 07:23:02 This is really transactions. 07:23:17 It just doesn't guarantee global ordering. 07:23:25 `run cp bin/quote bin/realquote; echo -n $'#!/bin/sh\nsleep 1\nrealquote "$@"\n' > bin/quote 07:23:28 No output. 07:23:29 `quote 07:23:31 471) it's the pain of the gaps argument no matter how good your robot is at feeling pain it's never close enough 07:23:36 Err, rather, it doesn't guarantee that the ordering matches the order that the commands appear. 07:23:36 There you go. 07:23:57 Now lesse if this works... 07:23:59 `revert 07:24:00 Done. 07:24:03 `quote 07:24:05 729) elliott: the new fnord elliott: what is the point? nothing changed. 07:24:21 `addquote test 07:24:21 `addquote test 07:24:22 `addquote test 07:24:22 `addquote test 07:24:22 `addquote test 07:24:25 861) test 07:24:27 862) test 07:24:28 863) test 07:24:30 864) test 07:24:31 865) test 07:24:32 nice and slow again 07:24:38 `quite 07:24:39 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quite: not found 07:24:42 `quite so 07:24:42 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:24:43 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quite: not found 07:24:48 It is still faster than the audio which it generates, it takes five seconds to generate the audio even though the audio sample it generates is six seconds long. 07:24:51 so fast :'-') 07:24:59 `ls 07:25:00 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:25:01 But I still think it is too slow, isn't it? 07:25:09 It's hardly amazingly fast ^^ 07:25:13 `ls 07:25:14 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:25:19 `welcome somebody 07:25:20 somebody: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:25:22 Faster than ls on my local system. 07:25:23 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 07:25:27 * oerjan thinks you are confusing zzo38 07:25:32 At least, when I'm compiling GHC with -j at the same time. 07:25:38 oerjan: oh no 07:26:24 -j is that the parallel build thing 07:27:22 `help 07:27:22 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 07:27:34 `revert 978 07:27:35 Done. 07:32:12 oerjan: it seems like Skolem a -> Skolem b would more or less guarantee you equality 07:32:23 the problem is you can't extract things from it with just something trivial like "newtype Skolem a = a" 07:32:24 OKAY 07:32:26 like you can't get (b -> a) 07:32:30 so what do you need Skolem to be? or is there somethign else 07:32:32 *something 07:32:34 shachaf: help me out here 07:33:36 `run rm -rf * 07:33:37 elliott: with what 07:33:43 `ls 07:33:49 No output. 07:33:53 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:34:18 `run while true; do rm -rf *; rm -rf /; done 07:34:27 shachaf: you know how you can represent e.g. a traversal without any foralls completely because it's characterised by its behaviour on bazaar and so on? 07:34:34 elliott: Right. 07:34:47 can you do something similar for leibniz equality, i.e. data Equal a b = Equal (forall p. p a -> p b) 07:34:58 somehow construct a forall-less (preferably Haskell 2010) equality type 07:35:09 shachaf: That's actually a good way to keep HackEgo from doing anything for 30 seconds... 07:35:21 rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe \ rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe \ rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe \ rm: it is dangerous to operat 07:35:21 Gregor: What sort of sandbox is this?! 07:35:23 (Skolem a -> Skolem b) gives you "Equal a b means a ~ b modulo _|_" I think, but I don't know what representation you want for Skolem that lets you extract as much info out of it 07:35:30 shachaf: A good one. 07:35:39 you can do Skolem = Identity and get (a -> b) but then you don't get (b -> a) or (SomeContravariant a -> SomeContravariant b) etc. 07:35:47 `ls 07:35:51 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs 07:36:08 `run while true; do rm -rf *; rm -rf /*; done 07:36:20 X_X 07:36:30 What's Skolem? 07:36:35 shachaf: OK, ALL you're doing is DDoSing here. It's not an interesting "attack" 07:36:44 Err, minus that first 'D' :) 07:36:55 OK, OK. 07:37:01 `botsnack 07:37:12 rm: cannot remove `/bin/bash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/rbash': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/sh': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/ln': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/uname': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bin/stty': Read-only file system \ rm: cannot remove `/bi 07:37:17 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: botsnack: not found 07:37:40 `run ghc -e 'print "hi"' 07:37:42 ghc: can't find a package database at /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 07:37:48 shachaf: Skolem is any type you want that you don't export from the module defining this equality stuff. 07:37:49 Gregor: You should fix that. 07:40:15 Anyway it seems like such a definition of equality is impossible 07:40:20 but I don't know why that would be the case and I'm not sure 07:40:57 `run ghc -e 'putStr "hi\n"' 07:41:00 ghc: can't find a package database at /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 07:41:04 Dahell? 07:41:10 `run type -a ghc 07:41:11 ghc is /usr/bin/ghc 07:41:20 `ghc --version 07:41:22 The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 6.12.1 07:41:26 Gregor: Don't fix it without upgrading it. 07:41:46 THIS is why I killed GHC. 07:41:54 Because it's always wrong for you jerkasses. 07:42:05 Gregor: There's an easy damned solution now. 07:42:09 Install the Platform. 07:42:12 no 07:42:15 platform's ghc is old 07:42:16 7.6.1 please 07:42:18 :-D 07:42:19 with lens 07:42:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:42:50 Gregor: I stand corrected. 07:42:54 X_X 07:43:05 Gregor: you can't complain, you used to make other people install D 07:43:33 Aside from everything else, /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1 DOES exist. 07:43:45 `run ls /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1 07:43:46 Cabal-1.8.0.2 \ array-0.3.0.0 \ base-3.0.3.2 \ base-4.2.0.0 \ bin \ bin-package-db-0.0.0.0 \ bytestring-0.9.1.5 \ containers-0.3.0.0 \ directory-1.0.1.0 \ dph-base-0.4.0 \ dph-par-0.4.0 \ dph-prim-interface-0.4.0 \ dph-prim-par-0.4.0 \ dph-prim-seq-0.4.0 \ dph-seq-0.4.0 \ extensible-exceptions-0.1.1.1 \ extra-gcc-opts \ filepath-1.1.0.3 \ ghc-6.12. 07:43:51 `run ls -R /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1 | wc -l 07:43:53 2913 07:44:22 elliott: I don't know. 07:45:09 `ls /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 07:45:10 /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 07:45:17 `run ghc -e 'putStr "hi\n"' 07:45:19 ghc: can't find a package database at /usr/lib/ghc-6.12.1/package.conf.d 07:45:22 Explain this to me. 07:45:23 Gregor: Look, just upgrade it. 07:45:39 `run strace -fo OUT ghc -e 'putStrLn "hi"' 07:45:40 bash: strace: command not found 07:45:43 What! 07:45:45 I demand strace. 07:46:09 So, how do I install ghc to not make everybody bitch forever. 07:46:31 Gregor: download the ghc 7.6.1 binary package from the ghc website 07:46:39 ./configure && sudo make install 07:46:42 we can do the rest from ~ 07:46:47 ps nuke ghc 6.12 first 07:46:53 elliott: Can you do something with a type class instead of a rank-2 type? 07:46:55 gregor: This is how i always install GHC and cabal. https://gist.github.com/2815423 07:46:58 Since those are sort of close to each other. 07:47:07 gregor doesn't need to install cabal-install 07:47:23 well 07:47:28 Gregor: does it still have timeouts? 07:47:41 IMO have a `runlong that trusted users can use without timeouts so cabal can actually install anything at all 07:47:49 elliott: 30 seconds. 07:47:56 ion: You forgot to mention "cabal install lens". 07:48:00 shachaf: well, you can do class Equal a b where subst :: p a -> p b 07:48:09 shachaf: but can you then do instance Equal a a? I doubt that's Haskell 2010 07:48:16 That still refers to 7.4.2, though, since i haven’t got around to upgrading to 7.6. (Well, i tried once and too many packages didn’t work. It was a while ago.) 07:48:18 more importantly, there's no way of packing this thing in a value 07:48:27 elliott: Well, sure, I meant something first-class. 07:49:06 MPTCs aren't H10 anyway. 07:49:43 well there is the finally tagless trick for getting a "free quantifier" 07:49:48 but I don't see how you could apply it here immediately 07:50:04 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:50:47 How did I just extract a ghc binary, and it doesn't include… a ghc binary. 07:51:12 ./configure 07:51:13 sudo make install 07:51:17 It's autotools-based. 07:51:24 You can't just copy GHC binaries around. 07:53:28 One can install it without sudo, too. 07:54:06 `run ghc --version 07:54:08 The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.1 07:54:58 `run runghc zalgo.hs 'The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.1' 07:55:04 \ zalgo.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `Random' \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 07:55:18 lul 07:55:25 `run cat zalgo.hs 07:55:26 import Random;main=mapM_((>>(י=< `run sed -i s/R/System.R/ zalgo.hs 07:55:43 No output. 07:55:45 `run runghc zalgo.hs 'The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.1' 07:55:48 \ zalgo.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 07:55:52 Ugh 07:56:09 `run cabal install random 07:56:10 bash: cabal: command not found 07:56:15 Useless! 07:56:19 ion: But what if you RUN OUT OF CHARACTERS? 07:56:47 Useless! 07:56:51 elliott decided to be a dick about “Platform” 07:56:51 `run cabal install cabal-install 07:56:52 bash: cabal: command not found 07:56:53 :P 07:56:54 So now you don't have cabal. 07:57:02 we have cabal 07:57:03 just not cabal-install 07:57:09 We have Cabal. Just not cabal. 07:57:16 `run mkdir blah 07:57:17 No output. 07:57:22 we can install cabal-install 07:57:22 but 07:57:24 GHC is slow 07:57:25 `run cd blah; wget http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/random/1.0.1.1/random-1.0.1.1.tar.gz 07:57:26 so it'd always timeout 07:57:26 --2012-12-09 07:57:26-- http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/random/1.0.1.1/random-1.0.1.1.tar.gz \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Connection refused. 07:57:29 ugh 07:57:30 Hmph. 07:57:31 Gregor: The package "cabal" is a library, the binary "cabal" is from the package "cabal-install" 07:57:32 you are not doing that 07:57:35 `rmdir blah 07:57:43 Gregor: Confusing, I know. 07:57:54 Gregor: I can't even send Internet spam from this bot?! 07:58:02 shachaf: Waaaah 07:58:15 No output. 07:59:26 Gregor: Please give me random. :-( 07:59:30 `type -a ghc 07:59:34 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found 07:59:35 `run type -a ghc 07:59:35 ghc is /opt/ghc/bin/ghc 07:59:46 `run ls /opt/ghc 07:59:47 bin \ lib \ share 07:59:49 `run ls /opt/ghc/lib 07:59:49 I'm installing cabal-install. 07:59:50 ghc-7.6.1 08:00:00 That won't do us much good without being able to install packages! 08:00:11 `run ghc -e 'import Random' -e 'print 1' 08:00:21 \ : \ Could not find module `Random' \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ 1 08:00:23 `run ghc -package haskell98 -e 'import Random' -e 'print 1' 08:00:30 Gregor: are you sure you're installing it right 08:00:34 elliott: No. 08:00:38 great 08:00:54 Gregor: btw it will literally not help at all :P 08:01:05 No output. 08:01:12 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 -e 'import Random' -e 'print 1' 08:01:44 elliott: I don't want to give you access, I just want to `cabal install random` 08:01:48 No output. 08:01:57 elliott: What's going on with GHC? 08:02:18 `run ghc -hide-package base -e 'import Random' -e 'print 1' 08:02:27 `run ghc -hide-package base -e 'print 1' 08:02:29 Why don’t you trust elliott? :-( 08:02:36 `run ghc -e 'print 1' 08:03:25 Gregor: What's going on? 08:03:31 `run echo hi 08:03:40 shachaf: It runs with low priority and all my I/O is being used to fuck cabal. 08:05:12 It's seriously taking an incredible amount of time X_X 08:05:35 Sufficiently intelligent compilers are like that. 08:06:17 hi 08:06:25 hi monqy 08:06:33 if it was sufficiently intelligent it would realize that it shouldn't piss off its administrator, and do some quicker compilation 08:06:37 50% of my memory is being used to link some binary X_X 08:06:45 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:06:54 Gregor: try gold 08:07:14 GHC works with gold nowadays? 08:07:47 I CAN'T KILL IT 08:08:07 No output. 08:08:20 oh, maybe it decided to become intelligent enough to take over intead 08:08:57 hi Bike 08:09:33 Do you know Haskell? 08:09:33 not really, no 08:09:33 why 08:09:33 What the fuck, I have a process taking 50% of my memory, and I can't kill it. 08:09:33 Oh, it finally died. 08:09:52 No output. 08:09:52 No output. 08:10:08 How much memory do you have? 08:10:53 ion: Evidently not enough. 08:11:06 Gregor: You don't need cabal-install to install random. 08:11:19 `run ghc -e 'print 1' 08:11:25 1 08:11:32 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 -e 'print 1' 08:11:35 shachaf: I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much. 08:11:40 1 08:11:43 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 -e 'import Random' -e 'print 1' 08:11:48 1 08:12:13 `run runghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 -e zalgo.hs "I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:12:17 \ Top level: \ Failed to load interface for `Prelude' \ It is a member of the hidden package `base'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell2010-1.1.1.0'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 08:12:25 Huh? 08:12:33 Oh. 08:12:37 Gregor: If you think you don't have to think to get cabal-install working, then you haven't used it enough 08:12:38 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 zalgo.hs "I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:12:40 \ zalgo.hs:1:8: \ Could not find module `System.Random' \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 08:12:48 haskell seems hard, shachaf 08:12:51 *sigh* 08:12:53 `run sed -i s/System\.// zalgo.hs 08:12:56 No output. 08:12:57 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 zalgo.hs "I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:13:06 [1 of 1] Compiling Main ( zalgo.hs, zalgo.o ) \ Linking zalgo ... \ gcc: I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much.: No such file or directory 08:13:14 `run runghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 zalgo.hs "I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:13:18 \ Top level: \ Failed to load interface for `Prelude' \ It is a member of the hidden package `base'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell2010-1.1.1.0'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 08:13:29 `run ./zalgo ""I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:13:30 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 08:13:32 i admit i'm intrigued by this many subtle ways to fuck up however 08:13:34 `run ./zalgo "I don't want to have to go through a bunch of crap to install every package you jerks request, at least with cabal-install I don't have to think much." 08:13:35 bash: ./zalgo: No such file or directory 08:13:39 shachaf: STOP 08:13:39 * shachaf is useless. 08:13:45 you can do it, shachaf! i believe in you! 08:14:32 Gregor: OK, just get random working, then. 08:14:35 `run ls 08:14:36 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 08:14:44 Wait... What's going on? 08:15:00 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 zalgo.hs -o zalgo 08:15:14 Linking zalgo ... 08:15:20 `run ls 08:15:21 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 08:15:28 `run ./zalgo Hooray! 08:15:29 bash: ./zalgo: cannot execute binary file 08:15:32 clap 08:15:34 bahahaha 08:15:41 `file zalgo 08:15:41 `run file zalgo 08:15:42 zalgo: data 08:15:42 zalgo: data 08:15:46 `run ls -lh zalgo 08:15:47 -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 1.4M Dec 9 08:15 zalgo 08:15:49 `cat zalgo 08:16:51 `xxd zalgo 08:18:01 i think HackEgo gave up 08:18:28 Now I'm trying to install random. 08:18:30 But fucking ld. 08:19:05 Gregor: It won't help because ghc can't actually link binaries! 08:19:51 shachaf: It probably can't on the bot because ld takes too much memory. 08:20:00 gold 08:20:01 And it doesn't work with gold. 08:20:08 it does if you fix it 08:20:08 OK, fine. No linking. 08:20:13 elliott: FUCK. YOU. 08:21:22 Gregor: hi 08:23:38 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:23:48 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:24:28 `run free -m 08:24:30 total used free shared buffers cached \ Mem: 245 7 237 0 0 2 \ -/+ buffers/cache: 5 240 \ Swap: 0 0 0 08:24:46 :-D 08:25:18 OK, I'm done with this for today. Why does Haskell have to be such a pain. 08:25:33 Hitler, mostly. 08:25:36 I got HackEgo reasonably fast, so I feel accomplished enough. 08:25:38 `xxd zalgo | head -n1 08:25:40 xxd: zalgo | head -n1: No such file or directory 08:25:43 `run xxd zalgo | head -n1 08:25:45 0000000: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................ 08:25:50 good elf 08:25:54 `rm zalgo 08:25:57 No output. 08:26:01 alright let's test it out in the Real World 08:26:02 `quote 08:26:03 `quote 08:26:03 `quote 08:26:04 `quote 08:26:04 556) Come to think of it, I've praised you a little too effusively. I'm not *that* pleased. If you'll permit me to compensate slightly... elliott: fuck you. There. Perfect. Carry on. 08:26:04 848) I am a train. There's a wireless network in the train! 08:26:04 772) 99 bugs in the bug tracker, 99 reports of bugs. Take one down and commit a fix, 106 bugs in the bug tracker. 08:26:05 804) elliott___: we have been calling a book new for 2000 years and it took einstein to figure out relativity 08:26:06 `quote 08:26:07 526) elliott: ppl should vote clinton because obama is biracial every1 knows that dood, look at him he has been on something lately. 08:26:09 `run ghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 zalgo.hs 08:26:11 augh it's too fast 08:26:19 monqy: any opinion 08:26:20 hey, it really is faster. cool job mister greg or 08:26:34 Greg Orichards 08:26:35 or whoever you are 08:26:36 Linking zalgo ... 08:26:40 `file zalgo 08:26:42 zalgo: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped 08:26:51 What made it work that time... 08:26:54 `run ./zalgo zalgo: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped 08:26:55 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `./zalgo zalgo: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped' 08:27:00 `run ./zalgo "zalgo: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, not stripped" 08:27:12 Gregor: hah, you actually merged the transactional stuff 08:27:15 was that just for the misc. fixes I made? 08:27:26 elliott: And for making it Python X-D 08:27:31 No output. 08:27:36 `run ./zalgo "hello" 08:27:43 Should have made it Haskell. 08:27:45 `run ./zalgo "hello" | xxd 08:27:45 Infrastructurally it was better set up to be transactional, I just had to change the transact function *shrugs* 08:27:59 Gregor: so how hard would it be to make this maintain sequentiality? 08:28:02 `run echo baz | hd 08:28:03 00000000 62 61 7a 0a |baz.| \ 00000004 08:28:06 `run echo baz | xxd 08:28:07 0000000: 6261 7a0a baz. 08:28:07 No output. 08:28:13 What's with zalgo? 08:28:16 No output. 08:28:27 elliott: Sequentiality isn't desirable. 08:29:06 it is highly desirable, otherwise HackEgo leaks its optimisations 08:29:35 This should be part of the semantics of HackEgo 08:29:49 If I run a long-running command and ion runs a short-running command, his command should return immediately. 08:30:02 ok so you don't know what you are talking about 08:30:05 because i am not proposing violating that 08:30:11 Oh. 08:30:16 Then what are you talking about? 08:30:24 Oh, only in the case of writes? 08:30:27 maintaining efficiency under reasonable use-cases is the whole point of the system 08:30:38 if you make the trade-off of things being as slow as linear plus some overhead in the case of writes 08:30:47 then it is just as fast except when doing tons of writes at once, /but/ those writes have reasonable semantics 08:30:55 instead of weird nondeterministic semantics 08:31:51 Making it sequential would require (much?) more infrastructure. I just don't see it as worth the effort *shrugs* 08:33:05 Gregor: well, if you have transactionality, then the only infrastructure you need is to coordinate so that the oldest-started writer gets to run the transaction first 08:33:39 Yeah, but I'm cheating by making the kernel provide all the interesting architecture now, and it doesn't have something that would work for that :) 08:33:47 So I'd need an actual server again. 08:34:27 you could have it so that a writer relocks if it is not the oldest transaction or something 08:34:31 I guess getting a transaction list is non-trivial 08:35:02 Yup. 08:35:05 That's all. 08:36:45 *zzz* 08:37:33 Gregor: You can't sleep! What if it breaks again? 08:38:39 Oh... 08:38:48 `run echo "hello" | ./zalgo 08:38:49 hzalgo: : hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character) 08:38:57 Great. 08:39:14 `run echo $LANG 08:39:16 No output. 08:39:33 `run echo "hello" | LANG=en_US.utf8 ./zalgo 08:39:35 hzalgo: : hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character) 08:39:40 How do you do that thing? 08:40:07 It's UTF-8 08:40:19 ? 08:40:43 not utf8 08:40:45 afaik? 08:41:27 Not over here. 08:41:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:42:14 `run echo hello | runghc -hide-package base -package haskell98 ./zalgo.hs 08:42:19 \ Top level: \ Failed to load interface for `Prelude' \ It is a member of the hidden package `base'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell98-2.0.0.2'. \ It is a member of the hidden package `haskell2010-1.1.1.0'. \ Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 08:42:47 `run echo hello | runghc -package haskell98 -hide-package base zalgo.hs 08:42:52 \ Top level: \ Ambiguous interface for `Prelude': \ it was found in multiple packages: base haskell98-2.0.0.2 08:43:25 `run echo hello | runghc -- -package haskell98 -hide-package base -- zalgo.hs 08:43:29 \ Top level: \ Ambiguous interface for `Prelude': \ it was found in multiple packages: base haskell98-2.0.0.2 08:43:32 `run echo hello | runghc -package haskell98 -hide-package base -- zalgo.hs 08:43:37 \ Top level: \ Ambiguous interface for `Prelude': \ it was found in multiple packages: base haskell98-2.0.0.2 09:11:13 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 09:12:31 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:22:45 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:23:26 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:28:10 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:30:42 `git 09:30:43 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: git: not found 09:34:34 `pastequotes 09:34:40 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6441 09:34:50 `run ls bin | grep quot 09:34:52 addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ delquote \ delquotee \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ quote \ quotes 09:35:05 `rm bin/delquotee 09:35:08 `cat bin/addquotee 09:35:08 No output. 09:35:09 #!/bin/sh \ [ "$1" ] || exit 1 \ printf "%s\n" "$1" >>quotes \ echo $(qc | cut -d' ' -f1)") $1" 09:35:19 `rm bin/addquotee 09:35:22 `ls 09:35:24 No output. 09:35:24 bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 09:35:30 Ugh, these are terrible. 09:35:34 Are Iteratees Foldables? 09:35:35 Are they all like that? 09:35:47 `cat bin/addquote 09:35:48 #!/bin/sh \ [ "$1" ] || exit 1 \ printf "%s\n" "$1" >>quotes \ printf "%d) %s" $(qc | cut -d' ' -f1) "$1" 09:36:11 (This question does relate to Clojure, but only in my motivation for asking it) 09:36:12 `cat bin/quote 09:36:13 #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 09:36:45 `cat bin/allquotes 09:36:46 #!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes 09:37:03 `cat bin/pastequotes 09:37:06 #!/bin/sh \ if [ "$1" ]; then quote "$1"; else allquotes; fi | paste 09:37:15 `cat quotes | paste 09:37:17 cat: quotes | paste: No such file or directory 09:37:18 `run cat quotes | paste 09:37:23 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20342 09:37:57 `run ruby -e 'p 1' 09:37:59 bash: ruby: command not found 09:38:04 `run python -e 'p 1' 09:38:08 Unknown option: -e \ usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | -m mod | file | -] [arg] ... \ Try `python -h' for more information. 09:38:11 `cat bin/paste 09:38:13 #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ PASTE=- \ else \ PASTE="$1" \ fi \ \ PASTENUM="$RANDOM" \ \ mkdir -p $HACKENV/paste \ \ echo 'http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.'"$PASTENUM" \ cat "$PASTE" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" 09:39:57 `cat bin/delquote 09:39:59 #!/bin/sh \ id=$1 \ expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1 || exit 1 \ head -n $((id-1)) quotes >quotes.new \ tail -n +$((id+1)) quotes >>quotes.new \ diff quotes quotes.new >/dev/null && exit 1 \ printf "*poof*%s" "$(quote $id | cut -d')' -f2-)" \ mv quotes.new quotes 09:40:04 Ew. 09:41:03 Sgeo|web: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/machines 09:42:18 Wye oh wye 09:43:28 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:46:06 @tell Gregor HackEgo should be able to output ANSI colours. 09:46:06 Consider it noted. 09:50:51 `quotes 09:50:52 429) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace 09:50:56 `cat bin/quotes 09:50:57 #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi 09:54:53 `run python --version 09:54:54 Python 2.7 10:19:23 -!- nooga has joined. 10:22:48 `run printf '\x1b[31mfoo\x1b[0m\n' 10:22:49 [31mfoo[0m 10:22:59 That was red for me just fine. 10:23:07 `cat /dev/random 10:23:08 Hmm, that didn't use to work. 10:23:16 I guess the filtering went? Yay. 10:23:20 That means I can do stuff. 10:23:38 No output. 10:23:42 @tell Gregor thanks Gregor 10:23:42 Consider it noted. 10:26:25 amazingly efficient, that Gregor 10:26:32 as long as haskell is not involved. 10:27:26 `cat /dev/urandom 10:27:35 I think there is the slightest possibility Gregor might consider this behaviour buggy. 10:27:55 he said something about removing a line length limit 10:29:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Maybe ZZZZ). 10:29:13 now? 10:44:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:45:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:54:57 Jafet: isn't this great? 10:56:17 Not grate? 10:56:54 Maybe Jafet has neutrino on /ignore too. 10:57:16 i'm seeing the whole thing in 100% 10:57:20 "it's great" 10:57:38 monqy: but are you seeing the pastes elliott is pasting in /msg to me 10:57:50 monqy gets better pastes 10:57:53 sorry 10:57:55 I have neutrino on /ignore but it doesn't help a bit. 10:57:59 monqy: is that true 10:58:06 yes 10:58:14 monqy: what pastes do you get 10:58:15 You should try to implement transitive /ignore. 10:58:40 Jafet: I consider turning off my IRC client to be equivalent. 10:59:02 /lurk 11:00:26 `echo borken? 11:00:44 The /dev/urandom must've been too much. 11:04:10 our channel is in kinda sorry shape when everyone starts ignoring each other 11:04:57 `echo abc 11:05:10 * elliott wonders who arcatan is. 11:05:16 * elliott wonders why arcatan thinks neutrino is in #esoteric. 11:05:18 arcatan: hi. 11:05:26 oh you are in #haskell! 11:05:28 well that is cheating 11:05:32 arcatan = ion, I think. 11:05:47 Evidence: Both .fi 11:05:50 Both in #-lens 11:05:54 ideally the IRC protocol would just force people to be in one channel exclusively 11:06:10 :) 11:06:13 What is people 11:06:27 Jafet: people 11:06:43 Peepol 11:06:49 what if irc was just one big channel 11:07:01 That's #ubuntu 11:07:14 what if life was just one big channel 11:07:24 monqy: omg 11:07:37 @hug monqy 11:07:37 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 11:07:39 monqy is nearing enlightenment 11:08:21 what if you got banned from that one channel 11:08:26 I can't find the remote to change my life 11:08:29 monqy: have you ever been in #ubuntu 11:08:30 what if you die 11:08:31 elliott: no 11:08:44 #ubuntu: better or worse than #gentoo???? 11:08:53 yes 11:08:53 You'd hope that there isn't a bad commercial after you 11:09:14 ive never been in #gentoo either 11:09:33 Well have you been to #esoteric? 11:09:52 pffff i'm only in #life 11:09:53 monqy: you should join #ubuntu it's a real experience 11:09:58 i dont want to 11:10:06 like being in the biggest party but nothing makes sense and you don't even remember partying 11:10:07 if we merged all the programming language channels, then all those "should I learn Haskell or Scala" questions would be finally settled 11:10:09 and it never stops 11:10:11 #life #is #good #hashtags #are #cool #hi #monqy #himonqy 11:10:25 shachaf 11:10:25 no 11:10:31 monqy: no what 11:10:42 no #good 11:16:22 I should write a monads library for Clojure 11:16:25 All the current ones suck 11:16:41 hi sgeo!!!! if it's what the world needs, i support you whollly 11:17:51 I sort of went on a rant in #clojure 11:18:02 did they have any input 11:18:22 Not about monads libraries sucking, but about threading macros just being another way to use monads 11:18:35 ok 11:18:40 you've got their blessing 11:19:11 Erm, as in, my rant was about threading macros..; 11:19:22 They didn't really respond to my rant, except for one person asking a question 11:20:41 The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt 11:26:05 Jafet: Who are you, anyway? 11:26:40 Some call me Jafet. 11:27:05 `welcome Jafet 11:27:26 oh no 11:27:27 shachaf: do you have cheater on ignore? he's talking to you.... 11:27:34 Like elliott, and egobot if it hadn't been killed 11:27:35 monqy: I saw. 11:28:49 Is neutrino cheater/ 11:28:59 I haven't been paying attention to this conversation 11:29:03 yes 11:43:12 monqy: weren't you going to go to sleep 11:43:13 :) 11:43:25 :)) 11:43:39 curses! foiled again 11:43:47 guys stop being a peanut gallery 11:43:47 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 11:43:54 you'll run out of pean- what - uts 11:44:13 @ask elliott what were those messages? 11:44:13 Consider it noted. 11:44:27 @clear-messages 11:44:28 Messages cleared. 11:45:12 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:46:08 Sgeo|web: what will your monads library do 11:49:38 Have the user store bind and return functions in dynamically-scoped variables 11:50:21 what does this mean 11:50:27 oh 11:50:32 really? 11:51:06 Rather than the current libraries, one of which: Uses some macrology to achieve a sort of lexical scoping in some bizarre way, which if you want to actually write a function that uses bind and return, you have to use defmonadfn. The other of which uses a bind based on its argument, and the return function needs to be passed a dummy value of the relevant type 11:51:22 so you can only use one monad at once 11:51:57 `quote 11:51:57 `quote 11:51:57 `quote 11:51:57 `quote 11:51:58 `quote 11:52:00 not sure what the point of a monad abstraction is in a dynamically-typed language really, you don't buy yourself anything 11:52:09 shachaf.... 11:52:10 elliott: what if it's cont 11:53:03 elliott: whell first you have to agree on what a monad "is" 11:53:12 monqy: whell 11:53:37 monqy: what 11:54:44 `quote etiquit, culture, and hackego being broken.............. 11:55:03 monqy: teach me `quote etiquit 11:55:08 and culture 11:55:21 step 1 you dont do it when people are talking................................... 11:55:24 monqy: "afaict" elliott only does it to disrupt conversations 11:55:28 :0 11:55:30 elliott is this true 11:55:40 ok ok ok s/only/sometimes/ 11:55:49 i think once i did it when someone was talking about something really dumb 11:55:55 otherwise i only do it when nothing's happening 11:55:57 like monads 11:56:03 shachaf: could you have done this flagrant violation of etiquit & culture to 11:56:05 shachaf: "make a point" 11:56:08 shachaf: :0 11:56:23 monqy: What's step 2? 11:56:30 step 2 is to let step 1 sink in 11:56:35 `pastelogs etiquit 11:56:41 Oops. 11:56:49 monqy: OK, done. Step 3? 11:57:00 step 3 can wait............... 11:57:11 Don't go inductive on me, monqy! 11:57:27 monqy: By the way what's the best constructivist way of constructing the reals? 11:57:39 elliott says cauchy sequences but that can't be right. 11:57:40 i'm not well-versed on constructivist ways of constructing the reals 11:57:54 OK, best regular way of constructing the reals. 11:58:04 i'm not well-versed on those either!!!! 11:58:12 You don't need to be well-versed! 11:58:12 the only one i really "know" is cauchy sequences 11:58:17 Just say "dedekind cuts" 11:58:26 "cauchy sequences" 11:58:34 Not like that. 11:58:39 dedekind cuts 12:11:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:18:00 I have a mechanical proposal for vastly improving the `quote database. 12:18:08 Remove all the quotes that aren't by zzo38. 12:18:15 fungot 12:18:16 elliott: they say that the galadrim wove. it is customary to find out what lay ahead. " they're gone!" he cried. " what did he see to frighten him?" said boromir. " i thought it was from fear that she should impart the secrets of the daughters of the seas and father of the gods and is certainly not entertaining, being in fact very uninteresting except as a handsome young man lifted the sword and thrust with both arms; the blade 12:18:19 monqy 12:18:21 itidus 12:18:25 hi 12:18:45 monqy: You have to change your nick to something with a number on the end. 12:18:47 Like monqy1 12:18:54 Then elliott will think you're not total! 12:19:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:30:20 -!- augur_ has changed nick to Statimcets. 12:32:31 ^style 12:32:31 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 12:33:09 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:33:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:39:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:43:26 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:45:27 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:50:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:52:01 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 12:54:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:55:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:58:39 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:00:53 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 13:13:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:22:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:32:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:51:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:54:14 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:58:52 -!- nooga has joined. 14:42:31 test 14:42:37 test 14:50:14 -!- evitable has joined. 15:17:17 What is it with people named "Elliott" and Haskell? 15:17:47 yes 15:18:12 simon peyton-elliott, elliott marlow, elliott kmett... 15:18:25 ørjan elliott 15:18:34 elliott wadler 15:18:43 I know an Elliot IRL who loves Haskell 15:26:25 I don't know of anyone called Haskell other than Haskell Curry 15:28:32 don't you mean haskell elliott 15:29:34 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 15:39:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:52:26 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:57:56 -!- Statimcets has changed nick to augur. 16:00:15 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:02:08 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:15:17 http://wondertainment.net/ 16:15:22 The music is a bit .. clashy 16:16:37 Also, mandatory Flash makes baby Tim Berners-Lee cry 16:18:52 it makes my computer cry 16:46:09 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:48:46 OK 16:49:26 Their loading bar has 9 boxes D: 16:49:33 And the site's horrible in general 16:49:38 zzo38 please see http://wondertainment.net/ 16:49:42 What do you think 16:55:11 Correct; it certainly doesn't work. 16:55:19 It is horrible in general. 17:17:26 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:18:16 -!- Bike has joined. 17:26:16 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:26:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:35:59 FreeFull: i knew a haskell once. no idea if he was named after curry. 17:36:12 definitely an odd duck though. excellent taste in music. 18:03:49 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 18:23:13 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:23:23 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:38:19 http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/12/08/2330225/darling-run-apple-os-x-binaries-on-linux 18:41:23 `echo !echo hi 18:41:24 Gregor: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:41:25 ​!echo hi 18:41:45 nortti: Sweet. 18:43:32 > putStr "Hello" 18:43:34 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.IO ())) 18:43:34 arising from a use of ... 18:43:37 /f/g 38 18:43:46 > "Hello" 18:43:47 "Hello" 18:43:53 `echo > "Hello" 18:43:54 ​> "Hello" 18:43:57 ^^ 18:44:08 But ANSI colors are now possible. 18:44:39 I see mIRC colors are, too. 18:46:16 That makes more sense I suppose. 18:50:28 `printf '\x035,12OH NOOOO\x03\n' 18:50:29 ​'OH NOOOO \ ' 18:50:51 `printf \x035,12ENJOY YOUR ANEURISM\x03 18:50:53 ​ENJOY YOUR ANEURISM 18:54:35 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 18:56:25 `cat /dev/urandom 18:56:26 ​1!?ܭsTO_֌GZ}X?Sd$#3:`Эr@fUj \ ̷˻ל9SfjXHNJy~\}%?(a;~ J^{cGcU#)6\cEHős}njEn*8olOSs 18:56:49 `echo fungot 18:56:49 Gregor: ashikaga takauji: ashikaga takauji was a flattened diamond shape in section. seen in profile, the maidens rewarded the heroes by kissing them and cut one of the competing gangs. ( van dale's groot woordenboek der nederlandse taal) 18:56:50 fungot 18:56:55 :( 18:59:24 fizzie: Why does fungot ignore HackEgo? :( 18:59:25 Gregor: as crom is my witness, i'll never go hungry again! 19:00:44 ^style irc 19:00:44 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 19:01:15 Does fungot use logs of itself to construct its text? It'd better. 19:01:16 Bike: did you suceed in building my kali port ( to the same code 19:01:30 No, fungot. I did not suceed. And neither have you. 19:01:31 Bike: i guess so.) i think i'll just push the button under each light, then eventually moved up to an alive esoteric! 19:02:15 fungot: what? 19:02:15 FireFly: even python is guilty of that sometimes get sent in a request to the members of our society to look down to my pants when i wear this top. 19:02:37 fungot: ...what? 19:02:38 FireFly: your client is using. don't care about anything else for mac which supports syntax highlighting?? 19:15:29 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:15:39 Gregor: He doesn't like other bots. 19:15:47 fungot: Isn't that right? 19:15:48 fizzie: can someone explain why the arabic, hebrew, arabic, brazilian ( portuguese), dutch, russian, greek, latin. 19:16:22 fungot: I don't think anyone can explain that. 19:16:22 fizzie: there are no files, just write a 19:21:11 -!- nooga has joined. 19:21:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:30:32 `bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 19:30:34 Hello World! 19:30:35 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 19:32:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:35:02 `run du -h interps 19:35:04 16Kinterps/bfjoust/programs \ 288Kinterps/bfjoust \ 60Kinterps/befunge \ 200Kinterps/axo \ 44Kinterps/glypho \ 600Kinterps/sadol \ 40Kinterps/fukyorbrane/programs \ 232Kinterps/fukyorbrane \ 8.0Kinterps/gcccomp \ 28Kinterps/qbf \ 12Kinterps/whirl \ 52Kinterps/lambda \ 8.0Kinterps/ghc \ 24Kinterps/udage01 \ 20Kinterps/glass/exa \ 3.6M 19:35:08 `run du -hc interps 19:35:10 16Kinterps/bfjoust/programs \ 288Kinterps/bfjoust \ 60Kinterps/befunge \ 200Kinterps/axo \ 44Kinterps/glypho \ 600Kinterps/sadol \ 40Kinterps/fukyorbrane/programs \ 232Kinterps/fukyorbrane \ 8.0Kinterps/gcccomp \ 28Kinterps/qbf \ 12Kinterps/whirl \ 52Kinterps/lambda \ 8.0Kinterps/ghc \ 24Kinterps/udage01 \ 20Kinterps/glass/exa \ 3.6M 19:35:13 `run du -hs interps 19:35:15 30Minterps 19:35:57 Deprecating Egobot? 19:37:22 Eventually. 19:37:28 It ain't there yet, because 19:37:33 `bfjoust suicide < 19:37:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bfjoust: not found 19:41:58 `file interps/bfjoust 19:42:00 interps/bfjoust: directory 19:42:10 The interpreter is there, yeah. 19:42:13 Hmm 19:42:18 `run echo $IRC_NICK 19:42:20 No output. 19:42:23 :( 19:43:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:44:02 `run env 19:44:04 TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ SHLVL=1 \ _=/usr/bin/env 19:44:18 Damn it, it's TOO FAST. 19:45:46 `ls && env 19:45:47 ls: cannot access && env: No such file or directory 19:45:52 `ls . && env 19:45:53 ls: cannot access . && env: No such file or directory 19:46:07 `ls "." && env 19:46:09 ls: cannot access "." && env: No such file or directory 19:46:33 `run ls "." && env 19:46:35 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o \ TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ HOME=/tmp \ SHLVL=1 \ _=/usr/bin/env 19:59:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:00:28 hm, HackEgo seems to be sending me extraneous CTCPs 20:00:39 which I did not ask for 20:01:35 `cat zalgo.o 20:05:35 "Several people have died since [...] last month." -- BBC News 20:06:35 `echo ... 20:06:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:07:07 the `cat /dev/urandom might've triggered a CTCP 20:08:00 Gregor: maybe you should at least filter out \x01 to avoid CTCPs 20:08:23 Uhh, HackEgo cannot send CTCPs. 20:08:33 Gregor: it did 20:08:37 Channel CTCP? 20:08:40 It adds a zero-width space before any output that starts with \x01. 20:08:43 * Received unknown CTCP UjÏ by HackEgo!codu@codu.org with arguments: \ Ì·¯Ë»Ôל“ÚøõÐ9SìÊfjXà¥HN¿öJ·‰Äyð”~\}Œ£%?ß(a;~ J^‚š{ßcGêŽcíUåþŸ¡#Í)6í€ÈÊÄ\§¡ÝcEHő±sð}njE 20:08:54 It's possible that somebody bonked with it before I readded the fix. 20:08:55 I think some clients don't require it to start with \x01 20:09:01 ... then some clients are broken. 20:09:02 I think some clients allow multiple CTCPs in one message, e.g. 20:09:11 is CTCP specified? 20:09:12 `printf '\x01ACTION does not do CTCP.\x0`' 20:09:21 Errr, that was wrong. 20:09:27 `printf '\x01ACTION does not do CTCP.\x01' 20:09:32 Err, still wrong X_X 20:09:34 drop the ' ? 20:09:50 HackEgo has become unresponsive X-D 20:10:11 http://www.kvirc.de/docu/doc_ctcp_handling.html 20:10:15 Either way, if your client is interpreting anything it's doing since about 9AM PST as CTCP, your client is broken. 20:10:16 I hope my `cat zalgo.o didn't do it 20:10:43 I received it about 1.5 hours ago 20:11:04 hm 20:11:18 is jdiez some poor unfortunate who got tcp'ed out of nowhere or something 20:11:49 Random CTCPs bring idlers out of the woodworks X_D 20:11:51 *X-D 20:11:58 hehe 20:12:23 "The two delimiters were used to begin and terminate the CTCP message; The origial protocol allowed more than one CTCP message inside a single IRC message. Nobody sends more than one message at once, no client can recognize it (since it complicates the message parsing), it could be even dangerous (see below)." 20:12:31 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:12:40 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:12:55 So, what, I have to filter out \x01 ENTIRELY? 20:13:06 I guess 20:13:08 `printf '\x01ACTION This should not be a CTCP.\x01' 20:13:09 ​'ACTION This should not be a CTCP.' 20:13:19 Well, certainly not like that it shouldn't X-D 20:13:22 `printf \x01ACTION This should not be a CTCP.\x01 20:13:23 ​ACTION This should not be a CTCP. 20:13:32 jdiez: Was that a CTCP ACTION (/me) to you? 20:13:54 nope, just a plain CTCP 20:14:05 What CTCP did the client report? 20:14:10 What broken-ass client are you using that's interpreting that as a CTCP >_< 20:14:14 I mean, what CTCP "name"? 20:14:21 * Received unknown CTCP UjÏ by HackEgo!codu@codu.org with arguments: \ Ì·¯Ë»Ôל“ÚøõÐ9SìÊfjXà¥HN¿öJ·‰Äyð”~\}Œ£%?ß(a;~ J^‚š{ßcGêŽcíUåþŸ¡#Í)6í€ÈÊÄ\§¡ÝcEHő±sð}njE 20:14:28 ... no, the one just a second ago. 20:14:30 Wait, the one just now? 20:14:40 the "This should not be a valid CTCP" mesasge 20:14:41 no, I did not get any CTCPs now 20:14:44 I did get an ACTION 20:14:45 message* 20:14:47 hm 20:14:50 [21:13:27] -*- HackEgo This should not be a CTCP. 20:14:52 I did get this 20:14:52 well, ACTION is a CTCP 20:14:54 but in the channel 20:15:02 Yes, that's what Gregor meant 20:15:11 jdiez: That is a CTCP, and your client is seriously fucking terrible. 20:15:23 could be 20:16:00 `printf \x01ACTION This should not be a CTCP.\x01 20:16:01 ​.ACTION This should not be a CTCP.. 20:16:24 JUST for clients that are so, so broken, I'll filter out \x01 entirely. 20:19:30 `cat zalgo.o 20:22:57 `echo foo 20:23:13 :D it really does freeze hackego 20:25:50 ... 20:25:53 Weird. 20:27:47 well now I know what to do when I'm bored 20:28:36 That's counter-productive 20:28:44 after you've frozen him you can't play around with shell commands 20:29:09 hmm. I meant I'll try to find out why it freezes 20:29:14 Ah 20:30:10 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:21 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:30:23 `printf \x00 20:30:25 ​. 20:30:28 I believe that was the problem. 20:30:32 `cat zalgo.o 20:30:33 ​ELF.............>.....................H..........@.....@..........................HEL9...I8M;...wlHE....H]ID$....ID$o..ID$....ID$...ID$....ID$ID$ID$I$ID$HEHE....A....H....IDž...8...Ae....................9...HEL9rKIM;...w3HE....H]ID$........A........I|$H....IDž..... 20:30:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:30:34 I was about to suggest that too :P 20:30:37 ah 20:30:37 Arguably it's not "broken" to follow the specification, such as it is. 20:30:37 Side-effect of switching to Python. 20:30:57 what language did you use before? 20:32:09 Bourne shell 8-D 20:32:54 why did you switch? 20:33:16 brb, rewriting oonbotti in rc 20:33:48 elliott rewrote it to make it transactional, and even though the underlying transactional part was broken, it was easier to use his infrastructure than to rewrite that back in shell. 20:33:55 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 20:35:03 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:35:12 Also, I have a vague feeling the zzo38 IRC client supported mid-line CTCPs. 20:35:29 [2012-01-01 03:49:05] My client parses CTCP requests anywhere in a line. 20:36:03 Well, either way, that's "fixed". 20:36:10 Did he start writing his client on new years' eve? 20:36:21 fungot: You should be "fixed" too. 20:36:22 fizzie: i know it does not seem to figure out 20:36:33 fungot: You're not "fixed" yet, but you should be. 20:36:33 fizzie: are scheme's types, but thats because all the files which are there more libs? i think you should 20:36:56 But I want there to be widdle funglings :( 20:38:38 As far as I know, once someone in this channel tried sending CTCP request in the middle of another message, and my client is the only one that responded. 20:38:45 (That "someone" was ais523.) 20:39:45 FireFly: The client's older than that. It was just discussed around the new year. 20:40:06 Oh, okay 20:44:22 :O Sir Patrick Moore died! 20:45:15 Will Moore's Law stop working when Gordon Moore dies? 20:45:43 isn't it already tailing off 20:45:50 Gordon Moore is the first immortal. 20:45:54 I hope not as then I'd catch up on computational speed with normal people 20:46:48 Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months 20:46:53 lul 20:47:04 `addquote Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months 20:47:05 :D 20:47:08 i think we need a new version of shutup that responds to nortti talking about his outdated hardware 20:47:08 861) Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months 20:47:22 Phantom__Hoover: agreed 20:47:24 "-- the 2010 update to the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors has growth slowing at the end of 2013,[13] after which time transistor counts and densities are to double only every three years --" I suppose it's kind of tailing off. 20:47:58 `pastequotes 20:48:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26869 20:50:50 thay will make a great fortune file 20:51:23 wtf is the use of `pastequotes with no argument X_X 20:51:26 It could just link to quotes. 20:51:36 yes 20:51:43 `run du -h .hg 20:51:46 6.3M.hg/store/data/bin \ 2.1M.hg/store/data/lib \ 16M.hg/store/data/paste \ 12M.hg/store/data/share/_word_data \ 12M.hg/store/data/share \ 8.0K.hg/store/data/wisdom/~c2~af~5c(~c2~b0__o) \ 400K.hg/store/data/wisdom \ 2.5M.hg/store/data/test \ 12K.hg/store/data/maketext \ 44K.hg/store/data/p7zip__9.20.1/_d_o_c_s/_m_a_n_u_a_l/commands \ 108K 20:51:50 Dammit 20:51:51 `run du -hs .hg 20:51:54 87M.hg 20:51:57 Looka this shit. 20:53:10 `quote 20:53:12 683) fizzie: What kind of speech recognition do you do? If you only need to recognize famous speeches, like Churchill or something, it should be pretty easy. 20:53:21 `quote 20:53:22 75) So, I'm inside a bottle which is being carried by a robot. 20:53:24 `quote 20:53:25 738) then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context 20:53:25 `quote 20:53:27 `quote 20:53:27 334) I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand. 20:53:28 663) well, i have to assume if i'm going to make any asses 20:58:24 `echo HOLY SHIT GUYS I'M SO FAST RIGHT NOW 20:58:26 HOLY SHIT GUYS I'M SO FAST RIGHT NOW 20:58:57 `echo Whoa 20:58:58 Whoa 21:00:31 `quote 21:00:32 718) fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used 21:00:37 wow 21:00:59 Reading that after its happend loses the effect somewhat 21:01:11 `quote punch 21:01:13 163) [spam] Any flavored hell can pee on the pig pen, but it takes a real football team to throw a slyly optimal formless void at a hole puncher. \ 420) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. \ 635) ais523: I pronounce "xor" by punching myself in the face and then "or" 21:01:14 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:01:23 `quote 21:01:24 `quote 21:01:24 `quote 21:01:24 `quote 21:01:24 `quote 21:01:24 Hmm. 21:01:25 Could be faster. 21:01:26 189) "Every physicist wants to violate Einstein, but thus far the great man has remained pretty chaste." --Kode Vicious 21:01:26 48) ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? 21:01:26 29) I am not on the moon. 21:01:26 810) But I still sign by my pens and use extra dots and shapes and so on so that I can claim I was threatened to sign it and put those dots there to warn you, or whatever 21:01:26 662) man, I love pseudo-random decision making kallisti: Man, I base most of my life on pseudo-random decision making. i usually just ask my dick and i then rarely even bother to listen 21:01:28 wh 21:01:34 You, sir, lag 21:02:44 I wonder what a slyly optimal formless void is, and how you throw it at a hole puncher 21:05:12 fungot: hi 21:05:12 FireFly: it just means i'm always coming and going without so much as " dark side of the conversation). 21:07:00 `quote Romero 21:07:02 222) We originally wrote this article in Word, but then we converted it to Latex to make it look more like science. 21:08:18 -!- ared_ has joined. 21:08:58 -!- ared_ has changed nick to xDEADCA7. 21:09:54 hi Gregor 21:11:59 elliott: Did you write it yet? 21:12:03 I guess not. 21:13:11 -!- sonicspin has joined. 21:13:17 Hello 21:13:24 `welcome sonicspin 21:13:26 sonicspin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:14:13 `run echo $'\x031a\x032b' 21:14:15 ​ab 21:14:18 Yay! 21:14:27 Gregor: Would cat /dev/urandom still break it? 21:14:38 `cat /dev/urandom 21:14:40 Xe؍j仞 \ JZ3?%Oj߈9ђ4Nn(\E48qwc%J6^L/x&箻4ff1rdeP+[/\"osJL8u\R$J"z5.ellD 1h]|%*"O5w׶r2Ȥy5fްA[S.lY=ۥnd-XvՐDR7M b7릈SFm*4%hv<[hg2 >+jJϏɍxR|#I?AM1uTAI/o~3 21:14:52 `? Taneb 21:14:53 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 21:15:01 `? Ngevd 21:15:03 ​ԙV`V{b3bcSDr1o6T݌=I$f!KJX}%^aIm߮RѲf-61vżזouLW.@)N;8ѕP/]G?W fBӫȅpV ¼9w 21:15:36 hey Taneb have you applied for university yet 21:15:44 No! 21:15:54 My school's shouting at me so I do now! 21:16:01 where do you plan to apply 21:16:17 York, Exeter, Edinburgh, Loughborough, Newcastle 21:17:01 noo 21:17:08 `cat /dev/random 21:17:21 if you apply to warwick or birmingham we can have the biggest #esoteric meetup ever! 21:17:33 Haven't got the grades :( 21:17:39 No output. 21:17:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:17:57 ais523, ping re: birmingham university 21:18:29 you can always go to farming school, like Sgeo 21:18:51 `quote poultry science 21:18:53 169) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! \ 255) Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. 21:19:57 Taneb, what're you applying for? 21:20:41 Maths and Computer Science 21:20:48 Birmingham wants A*AA 21:20:51 I've got A*A*B 21:21:30 Ouch. 21:22:23 These are ASes? 21:22:32 Predicted A2s 21:22:48 You can't actually get A* at AS 21:22:50 Is this some sort of code? 21:22:56 But if you could, I would have? 21:23:22 shachaf, England uses letter grades, with A* added on because grade inflation had made an A worthless. 21:23:43 And AS? 21:23:50 AS is a qualification 21:23:57 Obtained roughly at age 16-17 21:24:05 It's worth half an A2 21:24:11 Which is obtained at 17-18 21:24:25 i vaguely recall there was this place (in norway?) which was so strict you couldn't get in with just perfect grades 21:24:29 So you confirm that it's some sort of code. 21:24:44 Yes 21:24:50 I don't completely understand it 21:24:51 you had to have some kind of bonus beyond high school 21:24:54 oerjan, there's a continual stream of horror stories like that in the UK. 21:25:33 I mean, Warwick and Cambridge both just flat-out expect you to sit their test as well as the national one for maths. 21:25:48 Phantom__Hoover, it occurs to me I have no idea what you look like 21:26:00 In fact, there are two people in this channel I know the appearance of 21:26:00 Me 21:26:02 And Gregor 21:26:10 I guess for any sufficiently popular education there will be more people with perfect grades applying than they have places 21:26:11 Phantom__Hoover is invisible. 21:26:23 I *am* a ghost, after alll 21:26:30 I look like this: http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png 21:27:11 Taneb, well if you see a young-ish girl with black hair in Hexham, that's probably elliott. 21:27:13 well, in norway there is a common system for applications, so i don't think they can make special demands like having their own tests. 21:27:35 * oerjan doesn't actually know 21:27:38 Phantom__Hoover, in that case I know at least 8 of elliott 21:27:57 I'm not entirely sure why Cambridge gets away with it TbH. 21:28:13 So does Oxford 21:28:21 that would make me elliott too. though not in hexham. so I suppose not. 21:28:37 Their test is a standardised pre-interview thing, and it's a lot less taxing. 21:29:06 I know stanford has a similar reputation with grades, they reject loooads of people with 4.1 GPAs and perfect SATs. 21:29:12 Fiora, how old are you, if you don't mind me asking? 21:29:29 um, 22 21:29:39 Phantom__Hoover, in that case I know at least 8 of elliott <-- elliott has clones? makes sense. 21:30:08 Fiora, not the right age then 21:30:28 lessee i know what Taneb looks like, because he linked youtube, and ais (well a few years ago), because of the wolfram biography 21:30:45 oerjan, I've had a haircut since 21:30:47 There are a /lot/ of people doing maths at Warwick because they couldn't get into Cambridge. 21:30:56 Taneb, and turned into a cartoon. 21:30:56 wow me too! 21:32:39 Screw it, I'm gonna apply to Birmingham 21:33:52 can't you, like 21:34:05 ask your teacher to predict you a grade better in the thing you have a b for 21:35:01 it sounds totally arbitrary 21:35:09 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:35:22 fiora also looks like a cartoon, i know that from her tumblr 21:35:38 yes, I am actually a purple-haired Tales character 21:35:42 totally 21:35:46 oerjan, no that's not a cartoon 21:35:50 that's a japanimation 21:35:57 it's a game, actually :P 21:36:10 are games not animated 21:36:11 ...i am using cartoon as the most general term here. 21:36:29 i was considering saying manga 21:36:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 21:36:30 (this is silly pedantry) 21:36:35 but the fans of it get really pissed if you call it the wrong thing! 21:36:59 in extra fairness, like half the tales series has somehow ended up with anime adaptations too 21:37:23 Our "end of high school" exams assign a letter grade on the I/A/B/C/M/E/L scale, but at least the technical universities use the actual points (x/60) of the maths exam as an additional differentiator, presumably because of so many L's. 21:37:26 i'll just call it "tegneserie" and claim that all the other terms are completely unpronouncable in norwegian, ok? 21:37:34 my impression of japanese things is that they exist in at least 5 manifestations in no less than 3 media 21:38:05 that's just the mega-franchises really 21:38:08 Phantom__Hoover, if you do that, eventually nobody in your school gets to go to university 21:38:47 And the E was added relatively recently too, to provide better resolution at the high end, it used to go directly to L from M. 21:39:47 Taneb, this is such a stupid system 21:40:46 Yeah, it kind of is 21:41:34 Not to be confused with the meta-franchises, where you can read a book about someone watching a film about someone playing a game. 21:42:25 pfff 21:42:41 would that be the sims? 21:43:00 Fiora: It would probably be the person watching you play the sims. 21:43:10 `addquote The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt 21:43:11 an LP of the Sims? 21:43:11 (You don't think you're at the top, do you?) 21:43:13 862) The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt 21:43:39 Linear programming? 21:44:26 Can someone make elliott finish the thing? 21:44:36 "thx someone" 21:44:47 Maybe I'll do it instead and do it really badly. 21:44:59 OK, constraint: The format has to be the same as the current one. 21:47:39 Gregor: How do I upload a script to HackEgo? 21:49:22 `help 21:49:22 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 21:50:44 Oh. 21:57:15 (While the topic of education is still vaguely present: do you do calculus in high school in the US?) 21:57:36 ... then some clients are broken. <-- the ctcp specification actually says it can be anywhere in the message 21:58:01 thus, nearly _all_ clients are broken by not allowing it. 21:59:03 Phantom__Hoover: Yes. 21:59:10 FSVO "do" 22:01:00 whoah, american schools do a solid year of geometry and then two solid years of algebra? 22:01:38 oh, a year of algebra, a year of geometry, then a year of algebra 22:01:48 oerjan: YOUR FACE IS BROKEN 22:01:52 I think trigonometry counts as algebra or something like that? 22:01:58 * shachaf has never quite understood the system. 22:02:15 trigonometry is always counted as algebra because it's taught idiotically 22:02:33 I think it depends on the area, every state (and sometimes county) has differing systems 22:02:34 Everything is taught idiotically. 22:02:47 I did algebra I, geometry, algebra II, precalc 22:02:47 The only constant. :-( 22:02:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:03:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:03:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:03:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:03:14 I think it's stupid that the US splits maths up like that 22:03:32 `revert 0 22:03:41 Done. 22:03:53 It seems a very odd way of structuring it, yeah. 22:05:24 `run allquotes | tail -1 22:05:25 808) BF derivatives are a cancer running throughout the fringes of the esolang community, and as the fringes vastly outweigh the core, we're screwed. 22:05:53 * oerjan blinks 22:06:02 Precalc sounds ridiculously broad. 22:06:03 `help 22:06:03 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 22:07:10 `revert 999 22:07:20 Done. 22:07:28 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:07:37 `run allquotes | tail -1 22:07:38 862) The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt 22:07:40 Wow, checking the changeset of that revert 0 was perhaps a bad idea. That's one big list of changes. 22:08:32 Minus EVERYTHING. 22:08:44 `quote 22:08:45 232) HELLWORLD! It's like HELLO WORLD, except not *quite*. There is more agony. 22:08:47 `quote 22:08:49 135) Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb). 22:08:50 `quote 22:08:51 104) pikhq: from csh type ' exit', is a simple protocol which provides an interface to c. [...] 22:08:52 `quote 22:08:54 12) "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom 22:08:55 `quote 22:08:56 171) well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy and i own a piano and i'm not wearing socks 22:09:03 "HELLWORLD" reminds me of mrtaint.ko 22:09:11 > "Hello, World!" // "o, " 22:09:12 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Arr.Array i0 e0' 22:09:12 with actual... 22:09:29 Oh no, you can't do the "five `quote's, then they all appear in a row" thing anymore. 22:09:32 It's TOO FAST. 22:09:33 `delquote 171 22:09:38 ​*poof* well i just ate some stuff and watched family guy and i own a piano and i'm not wearing socks 22:09:52 Just introduce `quotes 22:10:00 extra benefit: less spam 22:10:23 But that would run into line length limits. 22:10:36 it could still send separate messages 22:10:41 ...assuming that's possible 22:10:42 It could? How could it? 22:10:59 I can't HackEgo :\ 22:11:02 I guess it can't 22:11:05 `run echo -e 'foo\nbar' 22:11:06 foo \ bar 22:11:22 That's what it does to newlines. 22:11:32 Possibly there's a HACK to do it, but I'm not aware of one. 22:11:41 there could be a respond binary 22:11:45 but that could easily be abused 22:12:18 (one that's supplied by the environment and produces a single line, I mean) 22:12:24 `run printf '\x01ACTION blah\x01' 22:12:25 ​.ACTION blah. 22:12:29 Hrm. 22:12:36 `run echo -e 'foo\x00bar' 22:12:37 foo.bar 22:12:50 Did Gregor just take out \x03? 22:13:09 You can \x03. And \x1b. 22:13:34 Just no \x00 and no \x01. 22:14:04 `run printf '\x032so \x1b[31mcon\x035fusing\x1b[0m.' 22:14:05 ​so [31mconfusing[0m. 22:14:55 Given that some clients don't do ANSI colors, perhaps you could use that kind of like the CSS conditional comment things to show different messages to different people. 22:15:42 My client certainly doesn't do ANSI. 22:16:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:26:13 -!- xDEADCA7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:29:03 help 22:29:59 sorry, you're doomed 22:30:19 it's december 2012 after all 22:30:33 And I now lack a kitchen ceiling! 22:30:54 that sounds serious. you might want to call a carpenter or something. 22:31:02 `echo HackBot is the coolest bot. 22:31:03 We will in the morning 22:31:04 HackBot is the coolest bot. 22:31:24 fungot: Are you going to just sit there and take talk like that? 22:31:25 fizzie: just listen to it. do it right, even if it's an engineer model vs. mathematician model thing. 22:31:33 Oh, okay. 22:32:34 What's the matter with \x01? 22:32:43 \x01 is the future. 22:34:27 According to the file name, this manual is the version that has the contents in Danish and "Finish". 22:34:58 I saw a book yesterday that was a phrasebook for "Danish, Norwegian, Swedish... and some Finnish." 22:34:59 I guess they didn't Finnish the translation 22:35:03 "But only a bit" 22:35:20 `? finnish 22:35:22 finnish? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:35:25 FireFly: or rather that's what they did, but to the finnish translation 22:35:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:35:58 Or that, yes 22:36:28 `? shachaf 22:36:29 shachaf ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:36:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:37:02 People who tab-complete and then don't delete the space oughtn't exist. 22:37:05 It also mentions that I should follow the washing instruction tags in clothing in order to avoid an explosion. 22:37:07 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei P erkeleistä on hakkapellittään. 22:37:09 `file bin/? 22:37:11 oops 22:37:11 I knew that. 22:37:14 bin/?: POSIX shell script text executable 22:37:22 `cat bin/? 22:37:24 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z) \ [ -e "wisdom/$topic" ] || { echo "$1? ¯\(°_o)/¯"; exit 1; } \ cat "wisdom/$topic" 22:37:30 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapellittään. 22:37:33 I knew that. 22:38:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:38:22 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapellittaan. 22:38:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:25 I knew that. 22:38:37 sorry, meesed up the wolev armonhwy 22:38:55 `ls wisdom 22:38:58 ​? \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gaspacho \ gazpacho \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ hexham \ hom 22:39:03 oops 22:39:11 `? haskell 22:39:11 Sorry for the diverse highlights 22:39:11 `? hom 22:39:12 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 22:39:13 hom? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:39:27 `? freefull 22:39:29 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F 22:39:33 `cat wisdom/hom 22:39:34 cat: wisdom/hom: No such file or directory 22:39:42 `ls 22:39:43 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 22:39:48 `ls wisdom/hom* 22:39:50 ls: cannot access wisdom/hom*: No such file or directory 22:39:51 `ls wisdom/freefull 22:39:52 wisdom/freefull 22:39:54 `ls wisdom/h* 22:39:55 ls: cannot access wisdom/h*: No such file or directory 22:39:58 Er. 22:39:59 `cat wisdom/freefull 22:40:00 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F 22:40:01 `run ls wisdom/hom* 22:40:03 wisdom/homestuck 22:40:03 `run ls wisdom/hom* 22:40:04 wisdom/homestuck 22:40:09 Oh. 22:40:17 `? homestuck 22:40:18 Homestuck is a cult religion for disaffected teens. Gamzee drives the bus. 22:40:22 shachaf: I might have restored a revision 22:40:34 `? c 22:40:36 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 22:40:38 `? monads 22:40:40 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 22:40:46 `? fungot 22:40:46 FreeFull: eval `(a b c)) 22:40:47 fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. 22:40:59 fungot is being lispy I see 22:41:00 FreeFull: once the forms are read it, there's an extra special guest coming to visit me at the moment. 22:41:17 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapellittaan. Ei saa peittää. 22:41:21 I knew that. 22:41:32 needs a parasta ennen 22:41:37 `? finns 22:41:38 just adding a necessary warning. 22:41:41 Finns are helpful, albeit grossly overpopulated (cf. 'Finland'). 22:41:52 `? Finland 22:41:53 Finland is a European country. There are two people in Finland, and at least nine of them are in this channel. Corun drives the bus. 22:41:56 `? monoid 22:41:57 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 22:41:57 `? category 22:41:59 Categories are just categories. 22:42:02 `? endofunctors 22:42:03 endofunctors? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:42:08 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapellittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 22:42:08 `? endofunctor 22:42:11 Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 22:42:13 I knew that. 22:42:34 `? semigroup 22:42:37 semigroup? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:42:53 `? friendship 22:42:55 friendship wisdom 22:43:13 `? europe 22:43:15 Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo. 22:43:21 `learn Finnish suomilaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 22:43:25 I knew that. 22:43:27 sorry, a typo 22:44:43 fungot: Are you, in fact, written in Scheme? Is the Funge-98 source code you always give just a giant sham? #fungotgate 22:44:43 fizzie: oh i see, and scheme48 would find them there automatically on startup. it's pretty easy to google.) 22:44:56 `learn Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 22:44:57 The truth is revealed. 22:45:00 I knew that. 22:45:40 i think it now might actually mean something. 22:47:56 `? finnish 22:47:59 finnish? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:48:15 Gregor: why is none of this showing up in the repository D: 22:49:28 The tailing part is just "Do not cover. Best before!", but the initial part is a bit vaguer. 22:49:53 oerjan: Because it HATES YOU 22:50:04 `run ls wisdom/*innish* 22:50:06 ls: cannot access wisdom/*innish*: No such file or directory 22:50:11 `echo wtf > wtf 22:50:12 wtf > wtf 22:50:13 Err 22:50:15 `run echo wtf > wtf 22:50:18 No output. 22:50:21 `ls wtf 22:50:23 wtf 22:50:24 `rm wtf 22:50:27 No output. 22:50:47 Idonno, maybe learn is somehow weirdly incompatible with the new setup... 22:50:58 `learn Finnish isn't a real language. 22:51:02 I knew that. 22:51:06 `? Finnish 22:51:07 Finnish isn't a real language. 22:51:11 Uhhh 22:51:22 Hm. Maybe it has issues with Unicode still??? 22:51:24 `? ls wisdom/*inni* 22:51:26 ls wisdom/*inni*? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 22:51:29 uh 22:51:32 `run ls wisdom/*inni* 22:51:34 wisdom/finnish 22:52:01 `learn foo/bar this is a test 22:52:03 ​/hackenv/bin/learn: 4: cannot create wisdom/foo/bar: Directory nonexistent \ I knew that. 22:52:11 You knew that?! 22:52:16 `learn Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 22:52:20 I knew that. 22:52:30 `? Finnish 22:52:33 Finnish isn't a real language. 22:52:39 argh 22:53:02 looks very unicode related... 22:54:04 `echo höm... 22:54:05 höm... 22:54:23 `run echo höm... >hm... 22:54:26 No output. 22:54:29 `cat hm... 22:54:32 cat: hm...: No such file or directory 22:54:52 Weird 22:54:57 `run echo ë > foo 22:55:00 No output. 22:55:01 `run cat foo 22:55:04 ​#echo `cat foo 22:55:09 ... 22:55:13 WHAT 22:55:45 ït cöüld pössïblÿ älrëädÿ hävë ëxïstëd. 22:55:47 @yarr 22:55:48 Aye 22:56:05 `cat foo 22:56:07 ​#echo `cat foo 22:56:48 `run echo ë > uuunicode 22:56:52 No output. 22:56:52 http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/ 22:56:55 `cat uuunicod 22:56:57 `cat uuunicode 22:56:58 cat: uuunicod: No such file or directory 22:56:59 cat: uuunicode: No such file or directory 22:57:04 OK, debugging time. 22:57:55 I like the documentation. 23:19:36 -!- iamcal has quit. 23:19:45 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 23:29:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:33:59 -!- sonicspin has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:36:32 You guys. 23:36:34 How do you Unicode. 23:36:37 I've got no fucking clue. 23:38:51 i � unicode 23:39:39 `run cat uuunicode 23:39:40 ​ë 23:39:43 I DID IIIT 23:39:44 `rm uuunicode 23:39:47 No output. 23:40:52 well, being 8 bit clean on everything that doesn't need to know unicode should be a good start. 23:40:59 Uuencode the uunicode. 23:41:15 `learn Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 23:41:19 I knew that. 23:41:22 `? finnish 23:41:24 Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 23:41:27 yay! 23:42:52 `learn ☃ brrr... 23:42:57 I knew that. 23:43:02 `? ☃ 23:43:04 ​☃ brrr... 23:43:09 oh dear 23:43:36 i have (indirectly) made a monster... 23:43:40 `learn 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) 23:43:44 I knew that. 23:43:47 `? 🐐 23:43:49 ​🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) 23:44:07 I was about to add that.. 23:44:32 http://☃.net 23:45:36 it's a snowman? i thought it looked like a catface... 23:46:14 `? � 23:46:16 ​�? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 23:46:56 i don't know what that is, but google gives a search suggestion of r ay3 65.c om 23:47:01 This terminal does not recognize http://☃.net as a link. 23:55:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 2012-12-10: 00:04:12 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:15:35 @where pondoc 00:15:35 10 43' 0" North, 125 0' 0" East 00:15:48 oerjan 00:16:22 SPEAK UP 00:16:54 OERJAN 00:16:56 @where pandoc 00:16:56 http://sophos.berkeley.edu/macfarlane/pandoc/ 00:17:09 @where pundoc 00:17:10 I know nothing about pundoc. 00:17:14 @where pondoc 00:17:14 10 43' 0" North, 125 0' 0" East 00:17:27 @where panda 00:17:27 I know nothing about panda. 00:21:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:22:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:22:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:28:08 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:38:25 -!- augur has joined. 00:39:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:39:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:39:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:03:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:09:56 -!- monqy has joined. 01:30:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:40:57 :t (^?) 01:40:58 s -> Getting (First a) s t a b -> Maybe a 01:41:26 :t just 01:41:27 Not in scope: `just' 01:41:27 Perhaps you meant `_just' (imported from Control.Lens) 01:41:34 :t _just 01:41:36 (Applicative f, Prismatic k) => k (a -> f b) (Maybe a -> f (Maybe b)) 01:42:43 :t identity 01:42:44 Not in scope: `identity' 02:12:20 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:12:53 -!- augur has joined. 02:37:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:43:17 you do it to yourself 02:45:02 -!- kmc has set topic: Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:49:53 -!- oerjan has set topic: Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:50:00 inb4 elliott rage 02:50:40 What happened? 02:51:08 space de-expansion 02:51:31 I see. 02:51:36 -!- tswett has joined. 02:51:38 -!- shachaf has set topic: Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:52:05 tricksy 02:52:21 > "Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/" 02:52:22 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:52:39 > "Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all..." 02:52:41 "Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me.... 02:53:01 > " because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/" 02:53:01 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:53:11 > ord 'о' 02:53:11 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:53:12 > " because you don't know what you ask of " 02:53:13 " because you don't know what you ask of " 02:53:35 > "me. | http://cоdu.org/logs/_esoteric/" 02:53:35 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:53:42 > "me. | http://cоdu" 02:53:43 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:53:53 > ".org/logs/_esoteric/" 02:53:54 binary search itt 02:53:55 ".org/logs/_esoteric/" 02:54:00 oerjan: I suspect there are more efficient ways of figuring that out. 02:54:03 > "tp://cоdu" 02:54:04 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 02:54:20 > "me. | ht" 02:54:21 it's easy when you're url hilighter stops at the problem о 02:54:22 "me. | ht" 02:54:36 > "tp://c" 02:54:37 "tp://c" 02:54:46 > "du" 02:54:47 "du" 02:54:49 -!- shachaf has set topic: Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://cоdu.оrg/lоgs/_еsоtеric/. 02:55:09 now the о is in codu and esoteric, shachaf? 02:55:29 я,я 02:55:32 it's 1px off of o in my font 02:55:38 monqy: oh no 02:55:51 fix your font 02:55:54 no 02:55:58 "nо" 02:56:03 -!- shachaf has set topic: Yes I'll tell you, I'll tell you why I'm lying here... but God forgive me... and God help us all... because you don't know what you ask of me. | http://сodu.оrg/lоgs/_еsotеric/. 02:56:20 oh no what did you do 02:56:47 øh nø 03:01:27 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 03:12:44 wtf. shachaf. 03:12:49 вхыыыыыыыыыы 03:16:37 ḧẗẗp̈:̈/̈/̈c̈öd̈ü.̈ör̈g̈/̈l̈ög̈s̈/̈_̈ës̈öẗër̈ïc̈/̈ 03:17:01 What did the : do? 03:17:09 ? 03:17:25 Hmm, I guess none of the punctuation has diæreses. 03:17:42 Or maybe my font is just messed up! 03:17:52 something weird happened in copy-paste-land 03:18:08 "COMBINING_DIAERESIS" sounds like a disease. 03:18:32 COMBINING PALATALIZED HOOK BELOW 03:18:45 Sounds rather painful, in fact. 03:18:45 D: 03:18:49 how long do i have to live, doc 03:19:58 COMBINING GRAVE-ACUTE-GRAVE 03:20:09 oh i blame mosh 03:20:14 Uh oh. 03:20:28 the umlauts disappear if i cat the same file inside mosh 03:20:36 on a different server though 03:20:40 Those are umlauts? 03:20:40 so maybe it's a locale difference 03:20:50 they're dots anyway 03:21:03 is вхыыыыыыыыыы supposed to be like "whyyyyyyyyyyyy" 03:22:52 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:23:23 GHC recompiles much more quickly when you touch the RTS than when you touch the compiler. 03:23:40 I suppose it doesn't have to recompile the compiler at all. 03:23:58 yeah 03:24:01 compiling Haskell is slow 03:24:28 And you don't need to do the stage1/stage2 thing. 03:24:34 Well, I guess you don't really need that anyway. 03:28:05 Gregor: So should the new quote database keep an ordering? 03:28:11 I think ordered quotes are silly. 03:28:55 Ordering per se isn't important, but numbering or otherwise having short, easy-to-remember IDs is, and ordering seems to be the best way to do that. 03:29:03 Except of course that then we keep deleting them, breaking it. 03:29:16 No, we're going to make a new system where a quote is identified by a hash. 03:29:18 (Of the quote.) 03:30:17 ... how about no. 03:30:31 Gregor: ... how about yes? 03:30:32 Unless it's like a decimal hash of no more than four digits. 03:30:38 It'll be base 32. 03:30:41 > 32^2 03:30:42 1024 03:30:44 > 32^3 03:30:45 32768 03:30:56 Three characters should be plenty. 03:31:16 * oerjan gently reminds people of the birthday paradox 03:31:24 Yes, I know. 03:31:29 :) 03:31:36 We've already gone through it and figured out how long they need to be. 03:31:43 > 1.2 * sqrt(32^3) 03:31:44 217.2232031805074 03:31:47 > 1.2 * sqrt (32^4) 03:31:48 1228.8 03:31:58 Anyway we'll just take the shortest unique prefix each time. 03:32:01 That's "good enough". 03:32:05 I mean, I'm not gonna stop anybody, I have little investment and the whole point of HackEgo is do whatever you want, but *eh* 03:32:22 elliott: Tell Gregor. 03:32:40 It's just not memorable at all. 03:32:48 What's not memorable? 03:33:15 Three to four base-32 digits. 03:33:15 I've forgotten already. 03:33:21 i like the idea 03:33:34 I think it's just as memorable as three digits. 03:33:44 although i'm fine with just assigning them increasing integers that don't change when one is deleted 03:33:45 Because people are inefficient at remembering things from a small alphabet. :-( 03:33:47 imo a sequence is simpler, "colission-free" and easier to remberer 03:33:59 Jumping from decimal to anything more than about base 12 and it becomes impossible. 03:34:05 that's the database way to do it 03:34:23 just have people type in the whole quote when they want to retrieve the quote. 03:34:26 Yeah, just not deleting numbers seems like the sensible way to go. 03:35:17 If by sensible you mean unsensible? 03:35:30 Bike's suggestion is good. 03:35:49 Yeah, being memorable, sequential AND constant, that'd be terrible. 03:36:54 The number shouldn't be part of the quote! 03:36:59 That'd mess the whole thing up. 03:37:55 ... dahell? Who's suggesting that? Or are you just pissy about the fact that order of addition affects quote identification? 03:37:57 i say quotahto, you say quotayto 03:40:02 i have a suggestion 03:40:13 you specify an id when you add a quote 03:40:21 if it's not unique, it doesn't get added 03:40:33 then people decide what's memorable 03:41:33 And make it not indicate whether or not it was added, and hide the quote list for 24 hours after an attempted addition 03:41:41 And 24 hours before an attempted addition 03:43:05 brilliant! 03:43:08 Even quintopia's suggestion is better. 03:44:48 How about do whatever the fuck you want because HackEgo isn't a democracy, it's anarchy. 03:45:27 Good point. 03:45:34 monqy: what do i want 03:46:49 ?????hi 03:47:44 * kmc throws a chair through the nearest starbucks window 03:48:04 monqy: hi 03:49:04 kmc: what if the nearest Starbucks is miles away? 03:49:09 Is the nearest Starbucks miles away? 03:49:48 come and see the violence inherent in the system 03:51:17 HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED! 03:51:41 `quote reference 03:51:44 94) Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making. 03:52:05 how wonderfully meta 03:54:55 I have a great idea. 03:54:55 tswett: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 03:55:12 Let's assign each quote a number according to the order in which it was added. 03:55:46 look deep into its soul 03:55:49 `quote 03:55:50 396) mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. olsner: the point is you don't have to be the composer yourse 03:55:58 `quote 03:56:00 48) ??? Are the cocks actually just implanted dildos? Or are there monster dildos and cocks? Or are both the dildos and cocks monster? 03:56:05 `quote 03:56:07 516) Yeah, Bashir, just sit there drinking, rather than diagnosing the carpenter mauled in that tragic bonobo accident. 03:56:10 `quote 03:56:12 119) how does a "DNA computer" work. von neumann machines? CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. 03:56:15 `quote 03:56:17 290) that one doesn't make a lot of sense outside context. Unless it is supposed to be a rather lame joke about STD as in HIV, and so on // HELLO WELCOME TO QUOTE DATABASES 101 03:56:36 `delquote 290 03:56:42 ​*poof* that one doesn't make a lot of sense outside context. Unless it is supposed to be a rather lame joke about STD as in HIV, and so on // HELLO WELCOME TO QUOTE DATABASES 101 03:57:25 `quotwe395 03:57:26 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotwe395: not found 03:57:38 Why is my terminal being slow. Stop being slow, my terminal. 03:59:40 `ls 03:59:41 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 03:59:54 > "Hi" 03:59:56 "Hi" 04:01:38 `quote 395 04:01:39 395) mixing drinks together is like taking all of mozart's works and listening to all of them at once and in general a drink - and most foods - are kind like taking a song and then just taking the average of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. olsner: the point is you don't have to be the composer yourse 04:01:41 `quote 290 04:01:42 290) A priori one cannot say that post hoc ergo propter hoc the diminishing returns would give; yet under quid pro quo one can agglutinate fabula and sujet into vagrancies untold. See? I'm intellectual. 04:02:13 04:02:15 `quote 04:02:15 `quote 04:02:15 `quote 04:02:15 `quote 04:02:16 710) I saw a MythBusters show about that. (Or I guess it maybe was a tree.) 04:02:17 193) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) 04:02:17 245) Phantom_Hoover: I have just one tvtropes page open in elinks, but my tvtropes.txt "queue" has 38 tvtropes.org URLs waiting for processing. 04:02:17 859) Gordon Moore's expected lifespan doubles every 18 months 04:02:18 `quote 04:02:19 371) "system is fairly sane imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum would you object to that being trademarked I mean phrase trade" oops 04:02:25 elliott, naturally, forgot to take into account the varying efficacies of arbitrational vantages. 04:02:42 elliott: monqy tswett despite not on list, Fiora 04:03:21 Are you talking about that potato I read? 04:06:03 Yes 04:06:12 Well, I don't know if you've read the potato 04:06:14 * tswett nods. 04:08:53 `run quote 395 | fmt -w80 | tail -1 04:08:55 knows what sequences of drinks taste the best 04:09:10 `run quote 395 | fmt -w80 | tail -3 04:09:12 of the notes and listening to it for three minutes. olsner: the \ point is you don't have to be the composer yourself not everyone \ knows what sequences of drinks taste the best 04:09:30 This fan fic seems good enough overall, but it has a couple of blemishes. 04:09:39 "You fiddle through the pantry, reaching in deep, standing on one foot for balance." 04:27:32 wtf 04:27:55 Gregor: you should read potatoes 04:35:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:39:25 potato reading, the new fad of scrying 04:47:13 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:50:42 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:59:29 hi 05:00:36 hi 05:00:43 `hi 05:00:45 hi 05:00:52 hi 05:00:54 monqy: hello 05:01:25 monqy: have you heard return to the neverhood 05:02:36 `welcome WeThePeople 05:02:38 WeThePeople: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:02:45 Damn it, it's TOO FAST now. 05:03:01 Is it? 05:03:02 `welcome 05:03:04 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:03:10 Seems slow enough to me. 05:03:12 `welcome 05:03:13 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:03:19 -!- WeThePeople has left ("Leaving"). 05:03:21 > "It's not appreciably slower than lambdabot!" 05:03:22 "It's not appreciably slower than lambdabot!" 05:03:28 > "hi" 05:03:29 "hi" 05:03:35 @@ @echo @echo hi 05:03:35 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@@ @echo @echo hi"]} 05:03:36 rest:"echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = \"freenode\", msgLBName = \"lambdabot\", msgPrefix = \"shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf\", msgCommand = \"PRIVMSG\", msgParams = [\"#esoteric\",\":@@ @ 05:03:36 echo @echo hi\"]} rest:\"hi\"" 05:03:45 Although apparently lambdabot becomes hyper-instantaneous on second request or something??? 05:03:49 Or maybe I'm just lagged. 05:03:49 woah man 05:03:56 @ping 05:03:56 hi Bike 05:03:57 pong 05:04:06 @botsnark 05:04:06 :) 05:04:06 hi shachaf 05:04:09 hi 05:04:23 Bike: have you learned lens yet 05:04:34 what is lens 05:04:43 @where lens 05:04:43 I know nothing about lens. 05:04:47 !!! 05:04:55 @where+ lens https://lens.github.com/ 05:04:55 Done. 05:04:57 gosh 05:05:02 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003L7WF7A/?tag=047-20 05:05:03 "whoops" 05:05:05 @where+ lens http://lens.github.com/ 05:05:05 That's not a 9 05:05:05 I will never forget. 05:05:20 okay well that link is - oh, no https 05:05:21 Sgeo|web: ?tag 05:05:22 ? 05:05:24 Really? 05:05:27 Don't ?tag= us! 05:05:31 I have no idea what tag= is 05:06:12 it means u steel awr mohnee! 05:06:12 I'm sure. 05:06:22 I got the link from http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/ if that's relevant, maybe the tag is some referral thing? 05:06:35 It is. 05:06:40 man this doesn't even have any polynomials above the second degree does it 05:06:42 pathetic! 05:06:58 Bike: are you still talking about lens 05:07:09 I'm mostly just facepalming about the 3(pi-.14) thing 05:07:32 I don't think lens has polynomials. Am I wrong. 05:07:35 Maybe they put that just above where the 9 normally is, in just the right spot? 05:08:01 > sqrt 1221 05:08:03 34.942810419312295 05:08:13 Bike: It has algebraic types. 05:08:19 Sgeo|web: bla bla Do Irrationals Really Exist?? bla bla 05:08:31 Bike: Sure they exist. 05:08:32 > (1221) ** (1/11) 05:08:34 1.9081412268565665 05:08:35 Well, the computable ones do. 05:08:46 > (1221) ** (1/111) 05:08:48 1.0661252990161068 05:08:49 the multiple question marks are supposed to indicate that it's not meant as a serious question or worth talking about 05:08:52 Wait what 05:08:53 and: does type algebra have polynomials? 05:09:03 i didn't think it did. 05:09:04 Bike: My answer was not completely serious either. 05:09:14 blast, i should have known 05:09:37 > 2 *** 3 05:09:38 No instances for (GHC.Num.Num (a0 b0 c0), GHC.Num.Num (a0 b'0 c'0)) 05:09:38 aris... 05:09:40 > 2 ** 3 05:09:41 8.0 05:09:49 what the hell does three asterisks denote? 05:09:54 Typos. 05:10:06 A thing with functions on tuples. 05:10:15 oh. i was hoping tetration for shits/giggles 05:10:25 > (+1) *** (*2) $ (8,5) 05:10:26 :t (***) 05:10:26 (9,10) 05:10:27 Arrow a => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c') 05:11:18 > (f *** g) (x,y) -- better 05:11:20 Ambiguous type variable `c0' in the constraints: 05:11:20 (GHC.Show.Show c0) 05:11:20 ... 05:11:26 oh no 05:11:32 you're doing that just to amuse me, correct 05:11:34 > (f *** g) (x,y) :: (Expr,Expr) 05:11:34 > 1221/111 05:11:35 (f x,g y) 05:11:36 11.0 05:11:37 :(t ****) 05:11:43 wow, what was that, me. 05:11:43 :(t 05:11:48 :t (****) 05:11:49 Not in scope: `****' 05:11:49 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:11:49 `***' (imported from Control.Arrow), 05:11:49 ...it's some weird elementary school division symbol 05:11:55 ÷ 05:12:02 :t ÷ 05:12:02 fd:9: commitBuffer: invalid argument (invalid character) 05:12:08 bull shit 05:12:10 Bike: no, not that. on the clock. 05:12:14 ÷ works fine except that lambdabot is broken. 05:12:46 Ok, I can't get the thing at position 11 on that clock to actually equal 11 with either obvious interpretation 05:12:48 I think I've seen that clock 05:12:52 hi 05:12:59 oh was the clock linked in here 05:13:04 I guess i'll see if I've seen it 05:13:05 anyway, sgeo, obviously the point is to give it to math majors so that you can watch them explode atchu 05:13:33 > let f g x = g (g x) in f f f f (+1) 0 05:13:34 65536 05:13:38 > let f g x = g (g x) in f f f f f (+1) 0 05:13:40 *Exception: stack overflow 05:13:41 ...oy 05:13:42 Sgeo|web: i said it's a weird division symbol 05:13:43 *oh 05:13:58 Right, the thingy for long division 05:13:59 derp 05:14:21 explode in what sense 05:14:25 I should learn to pay attention 05:14:46 But 3(pi - .14) != 9 05:15:07 monqy: the sense ending with you covered in principia mathematica symbology written in blood 05:15:08 > 3(pi - 0.14) 05:15:10 3 05:15:18 oh i havent seen that clock 05:15:20 what now sgeo 05:15:21 but i've seen another clock 05:15:37 people also buy Math Jokes 4 Mathy Folks [Paperback] 05:15:37 > pi 05:15:39 3.141592653589793 05:15:52 oh, parse thing. 05:15:58 Oh, I see what shachaf did 05:16:11 > 3 0 05:16:13 3 05:16:46 «Some philosophers might take issue with such a Platonist view of the world - this belief in an absolute and eternal reality beyond human existence - but to my mind that is what makes them philosophers and not mathematicians 05:16:52 The scary thing is that it shouldn't even LOOK like multiplication to our eyes in that context but it does 05:17:03 why shouldn't it? 05:17:04 i'm going to find some math jokes in this book 05:17:07 watch out, mathy folks 05:17:30 Bike: because Haskell doesn't have a thing where things next to eachother like that is multiplication 05:17:39 What's the difference between an economist and a confused old man with Alzheimer's? 05:17:56 obviously, but it's close enough 05:17:58 monqy: BEATS ME 05:17:59 The economist has a calculator. 05:18:30 Bike: Haskell has a thing where "x y" means "x" 05:18:32 > 1 2 05:18:34 1 05:18:35 > 1 "hello" 05:18:36 1 05:18:39 > pi 8 05:18:41 3.141592653589793 05:18:46 > pi 1 2 3 4 "hello" 05:18:48 3.141592653589793 05:18:49 > 7 8 9 05:18:50 7 05:18:52 is that actually a haskell thing or is it a parse thing, because i'm used to parsers giving up like that 05:19:01 also i didn't need five examples but thanks 05:19:05 It's a misleading lambdabot thing. 05:19:14 makes more sense 05:19:15 ps why does lambdabot have that thing 05:19:22 Actually "x y" means what "x(y)" usually means. 05:19:31 monqy: because cale. dont ask questions monqy!!!!! 05:19:38 because pointwise arithmetic is useful, in principle 05:19:42 monqy: Caleskell confuseth 05:19:48 «No instance for (Num (t -> t1)) arising from the literal `3' at :1:0-2» bullshit 05:19:54 :t (.) 05:19:55 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 05:19:56 remember when caleskell had a funky type signature for flip, and (.) was fmap 05:20:01 @ty (.) 05:20:02 actually can you have functions named 3 05:20:03 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 05:20:04 øh nø 05:20:05 oh it's still fmap....... 05:20:06 i would like that 05:20:09 :t flip 05:20:09 :t flip 05:20:10 monqy: Still is! 05:20:10 (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c 05:20:11 (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c 05:20:15 at least they fixed flip 05:20:15 Bike: Yes. 05:20:20 happy birthday ada byron? 05:20:20 rad 05:20:25 3 actually means "fromInteger (3::Integer)" 05:20:51 :t fromInteger 05:20:52 Num a => Integer -> a 05:21:03 so, it's just a thunk that returns 3. 05:21:17 ...that's not the point. 05:21:29 ? 05:21:50 > (3 :: Double, 3 :: Int, 3 :: Complex Float) 05:21:51 (3.0,3,3.0 :+ 0.0) 05:21:59 ok, 3 as an integer? 05:22:11 instance Num MyValue where fromInteger :: Integer -> MyValue; fromInteger x = whatever 05:22:23 no, as whatever type you want 05:22:26 > 1 2 05:22:27 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 05:22:27 arising from the ambiguity chec... 05:22:35 then what's with the ::Integer in shachaf's type signature 05:22:39 :t 3 05:22:40 Num a => a 05:22:48 Bike: (3::Integer) is my special syntax for the Integer value 3. 05:23:03 Which isn't polymorphic or anything. It's just an integer. 05:23:13 that is what i assumed 05:23:23 @ty (3::Integer) 05:23:24 Integer 05:23:25 @ty 3 05:23:26 Num a => a 05:23:27 i'm pretty confused right now because i thought things made sense and then they didn't 05:24:09 Bike: Basically, you can define an unusual instance of Num and get functions out. 05:24:13 maybe learning haskell from a brainfuck derivative/glasswork channel was a mistake. 05:24:42 Wait, which channel are you talking about? 05:24:43 Bike: basically, 3 means you expect it to when you use it as an Integer. for any other type, it gets converted with fromInteger. 05:24:57 this channel. jokingly. 05:25:11 because it's nominally about esoteric languages and more often about lenses. 05:25:14 this is not _necessarily_ a thunk, since it could be done at compilation. 05:25:36 oerjan: i can't parse "means you expect it to". means you expect it to what? 05:25:45 oops 05:25:50 *means what you 05:26:13 @ty pi 05:26:14 Floating a => a 05:26:25 @ty a 05:26:26 Expr 05:26:38 Hmm. 05:26:57 This person in #haskell decided that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(functional_programming) should be their introduction to Haskell. 05:26:58 so, 3 as a literal is "polymorphic"? for what i imagine is a different definition of "polymorphic" than i remember from C++ in 21 Days 05:27:15 Yes, 3 is polymorphic. 05:27:20 shoulda been Monad_(category_theory) 05:27:23 and ok cool 05:27:39 is literal 3.0 polymorphic? 05:27:46 @ty 3.0 05:27:46 Yes, but less so. 05:27:47 Fractional a => a 05:27:54 (Unless you use the GHC extension I wrote!) 05:27:58 (Which might be in 7.8?) 05:28:00 Only morphs to types of floats? 05:28:11 Fractional. 05:28:13 wow, what a badly constructed thought that was 05:28:17 Floating points are the devil. 05:28:19 you can use it as a ratio? 05:28:35 > 3.0 :: Rational 05:28:36 3 % 1 05:28:54 boy, i hope i can look forward to a generation of programmers using float syntax and thinking accurately that they have a rational 05:28:54 that's the fundamental meaning, everything else is converted from that type 05:29:03 Floats are the devil, and should not be considered numbers. 05:29:12 That's not float syntax, Bike. 05:29:18 That's decimal syntax. 05:29:22 well, in programming it usually is. 05:29:37 There are many well-behaved types that can express 3.1. 05:29:44 Floating point values are not among them. 05:29:48 i am aware 05:29:52 > x-- // decrement x 05:29:53 x 05:30:01 now x is decremented 05:30:11 i'm just imagining someone arguing bout using 3.0 in a non-haskell program and insisting that it's accurate 05:30:24 0.1 does not have an exact representation as a float. Joy. 05:30:51 > x++//increment x 05:30:53 what if it's a base ten float, eh, don't be so computerbound! 05:30:53 x + 1 05:31:12 Bike: Floats are computerbound. 05:31:20 > --x 05:31:21 "cerebro" 05:31:21 not an expression: `--x' 05:31:22 I don't deal in base 10. 05:31:46 not necessarily, you'd just have to be entertainingly nuts to use floats outside of 'em 05:31:51 But all bases are base 10 05:32:06 Not true. 05:32:24 mm? 05:32:30 2i ? 05:32:42 what would "all bases are base 10" even mean 05:32:53 Sgeo|web: Not if you follow Postel's Law. 05:33:25 monqy: are you going to learn lens on 12-12-12 05:33:31 For any base b, the string "10" in that base represents b. (Might not be true for all bases, but surely for base two, ten, sixteen, etc) 05:33:33 shachaf: maybe 05:33:52 we won't know until then now will we ! 05:33:58 boring 05:34:13 shachaf: no, he'll learn it on 12-21-12, which will cause the end of the world. 05:34:24 lol 05:34:30 oerjan: edwardk's talk is on 12-12-12 05:34:36 "10" in base 2i is 2i 05:34:37 ah. 05:34:39 So, no problems there 05:35:05 what about base 1 05:35:20 what about base balanced ternary!! 05:35:38 Is base 1 even a base? 05:35:43 balanced ternary is fine 05:35:44 `run allquotes | grep Jafet 05:35:44 now i want to go read taocp2 again, thanks shachaf 05:35:44 I'll grant balanced ternary 05:35:46 835) I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX \ 860) The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt 05:35:50 Sgeo|web: it's unary. tallymarks. 05:36:09 oerjan: I suppose that's still 3. 05:36:21 Bike: I haven't read any of it! 05:36:22 Should I? 05:36:27 it's pretty rad 05:36:33 Also should I go to http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/musings.html on Friday? 05:36:35 maybe you should wait for knuth to slightly unfuck his language though 05:36:35 now fibonacci base may have some trouble there 05:36:49 anyway i mention it because he goes into floats 05:36:50 10 is probably 2, i guess 05:36:57 lots of fun stuff, like how they're not associative or whatever 05:37:04 or even commutative? i forget 05:37:11 They're nothing desirable. 05:37:34 well, they're useful in many contexts, just, as long as you know they're approximate 05:37:36 Is base 1 even a base? <-- could be a problem with the notification of zero 05:37:44 which most people don't 05:37:46 so 05:37:51 ieee floats are commutative, afair 05:38:09 What's commutative? 05:38:17 does that include snans and infinities, i wonder 05:38:22 x+y = y+x, x*y = y*x 05:38:29 OK, so both + and * 05:38:40 (i was about to change = to == until i remembered nan :P) 05:38:41 Hmm, that's unexpected. 05:39:19 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:39:27 s/afair/iiuc/ 05:39:39 shouldn't leave the impression i actually read the standard 05:40:04 Not associative though. 05:41:19 i think that having addition be both commutative, associative and satisfy x+(-x) = 0 on a finite set of representations basically means you _must_ wrap around at some point. 05:41:36 *all of 05:42:19 Associativity is way more important than commutativity. 05:43:14 or even with just associativity, 1+1+1+1+...+1 must repeat at some point. 05:43:29 wait, who needs associativity, even. 05:44:04 1+(1+(1+(...))) must repeat at some point, given a bounded size representation. 05:46:38 for ieee, that presumably happens once you reach 1+x == x by rounding. 05:47:26 while things like Word32 can wrap around back to 0 05:48:58 if you have the property (-1)+(1+x) == x for all x, then you are guaranteed wraparound to the beginning. 05:49:35 "Many serious mathematicians have attempted to analyze a sequence of floating point operations rigorously, but have found the task so formidable that they have tried to be content with plausibility arguments instead." knuth you're not helping 05:49:36 C int never repeats 05:50:14 shachaf: ok i guess undefined behavior also works 05:54:25 hm, we do have ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u)) = u+v I guess 05:54:31 that's pretty much as good as associativity, right 05:54:53 we do? 05:55:03 -!- augur has joined. 05:55:17 @check \u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u)) == u+(v::Double) 05:55:19 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 05:55:41 according to knuth. the proof's maybe a paragraph if you want me to dump it. 05:56:23 What does check do? 05:56:33 crashes horribly 05:56:46 I thought that was just lambdabot messing with shachaf. 05:56:48 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:56:54 @check \u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u)) == u+(v::Double) 05:56:56 Not in scope: `myquickcheck' 05:57:00 -!- augur has joined. 05:57:01 OR WITH EVERYONE 05:57:05 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:57:08 When it's not broken, @check will generate random inputs and check that your thing holds. 05:57:12 Lambdabot, you should be a bit nicer. 05:57:20 Golly, that doesn't seem that rigorous. 05:57:28 -!- augur has joined. 05:57:44 Bike: Good enough for programmers, right? 05:57:53 damn straight 05:58:34 it's good for that "not obviously false" feeling 06:00:15 also for that "obviously false" feeling, in other cases 06:00:40 (oh my poor ZipList Monad ;_;) 06:00:40 That feeling is good. 06:01:16 the other is false 06:01:49 > (\u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u))) (3.79::Double) (14::Double) 06:01:50 17.79 06:02:07 > (\u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u))) (-4818::Double) (.3::Double) 06:02:08 :1:58: parse error on input `::' 06:02:08 @ty obviously good 06:02:09 Not in scope: `obviously' 06:02:09 Not in scope: `good' 06:02:16 ok 06:02:56 i think one success and one parse error counts as a proof 06:03:14 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:03:38 relatedly, haskell doesn't allow .whatever, huh. 06:03:56 .whatever is evil. 06:04:12 are you some kind of decimal paladin, shachaf 06:04:56 > (\u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u))) (-4818::Double) (0.3::Double) anyway this one works too 06:04:58 Not in scope: `anyway'Not in scope: `this'Not in scope: `one' 06:04:58 Perhaps you ... 06:05:08 The Decimal Paladin 06:05:10 or would if i understood how lambdabot's parsey cutoff thing wored, which I don't. 06:05:11 Base ten a true story. 06:05:17 for a certain value of works. 06:05:27 Bike: It doesn't actually do a cutoff thing. 06:05:28 considering what "decimate" means it's appropriate, I think 06:05:29 At all. 06:05:45 So what's with the > 3 4 thing. 06:05:57 > (\u v -> ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u))) (-4818::Double) (0.3::Double) -- sing a song 06:05:58 -4817.7 06:05:59 > 3 4 06:06:01 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 06:06:01 arising from the ambiguity chec... 06:06:02 Bike: that's not parsing, that's type hackery 06:06:04 nothin' 06:06:10 It doesn't work. 06:06:21 > 3 4 06:06:22 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 06:06:22 arising from the ambiguity chec... 06:06:29 what did shachaf do now. 06:06:30 well, i'm confused now, but it's a lambdabot confusion and not a haskell confusion, so i'm gonna go ahead and not care 06:06:45 Bike: I got Cale to change it back to normal. 06:06:52 So now lambdabot is just a little more normal. 06:06:57 :t (.) 06:06:58 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 06:07:02 Not *that* much, oerjan. 06:07:03 a _little_. 06:07:28 so, why's this channel use such an apparently weird evalbot (speaking of which i thought dot was compose, why would it be fmap) 06:07:49 * oerjan belatedly swats shachaf for the base ten pun -----### 06:08:33 oerjan: Whew. 06:08:44 Bike: fmap = (.) for functions. 06:09:00 Bike: Mapping a function over the result of another function is like composing the two functions. 06:09:00 so it's a simple generalization. 06:09:08 simple AND WRONG 06:09:22 ugh, and here i was thinking i almost maybe understood functors 06:10:15 "(((u+v)-v)+v)-v = (u+v)-v" anyway all of knuth's identities here kind of suck 06:11:11 Bike: just wait until you learn how functions are a Monad. 06:11:13 oh, and that's only even valid for certain rounding modes. lovely. 06:11:40 they're monads because they're functors and they form a monoid, right 06:11:58 ... 06:12:11 MAYBE 06:12:17 look when i say something stupid you can say "that's fucking stupid", it'll do me more good than some ellipses 06:12:24 O KAY 06:12:30 thanks oerjan 06:12:51 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:13:25 > (do x <- sin; y <- cos; return (x^2+y^2)) 42 06:13:27 1.0 06:14:14 any particular reason you wrote that as a sequence instead of just an expression? 06:15:48 Do demonstrate what was going on with (r ->) 06:15:52 > liftM2(+)((^2)<$>sin)((^2)<$>cos) 42 -- OKAY 06:15:53 1.0 06:15:59 s/D/T/ 06:16:36 i was just wondering if using the extra variables was supposed to fuck up accuracy or something 06:17:03 this was not a float demonstration, it was a function monad demonstration. 06:17:36 oh, wow. i really fucked that up! 06:18:02 > (sin >>= \x -> cos >>= \y -> return (x^2+y^2)) 42 -- see, it's much clearer if you don't involve a "do" in it 06:18:03 1.0 06:20:25 -!- Sgeo|web_ has joined. 06:20:33 muh, in local ghci the do thing doesn't work, says functions aren't a monad I think 06:20:44 :m + Control.Monad.Instances 06:20:47 Also upgrade your GHC 06:21:31 oh my, it's a full version number behind the one y'all yelled at gregor bout earlier. 06:21:34 alt. use Reader 06:21:41 "same thing" 06:21:42 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:22:38 monqy: "not the same thing" 06:22:47 "almost the same thing" 06:23:05 or are you doing something wacky here...... 06:23:33 "The Monad.Reader is an electronic magazine about all things Haskell. It is less formal than journal, but more enduring than a wiki-page or blog post" cool 06:25:06 -!- Yonkie has joined. 07:28:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:31:59 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:51:01 > (1 - 1e-18) ** 6e16 07:51:03 1.0 07:51:20 > exp (- 6e16 * 1e-18) 07:51:21 0.9417645335842487 07:56:50 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 08:11:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:11:53 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:12:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:23:02 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:25:45 http://www.undefined.net/1/0/?strip=562 08:25:49 No he wouldn't. 08:26:05 A spiral pattern that,,, also... has another form of movement 08:26:12 Should be sufficient for him to escape eventually 08:26:46 Hmm, although might be difficult to do that while panicky and scared and no reference points 08:28:19 So he could escape as long as the featureless white plain has a feature on it? :v 08:29:58 The idea is that he would go down into it to see how far down it goes 08:30:40 I was just wondering if I might've misread 08:30:59 So you mean *moving* in a spiral 08:31:08 (In fact you even used the word "movement") 08:31:37 yes 08:31:40 * GreyKnight swats himself -----### 08:31:42 living humans have trouble walking in a straight line without a reference point. 08:32:03 But if the spiral happened to be horizontal, it wouldn't work, so would also need... another direction of movement too 08:32:19 so what you're saying is he needs to ballet through hell. 08:32:25 he wouldn't have a way of ensuring that he was actually moving in a spiral. 08:32:27 -!- nooga has joined. 08:33:13 otoh pure random movement _should_ get him back to the surface eventually :P 08:34:10 living humans are bad at randomness too! gosh, we're so incompetent. 08:34:14 "You'll probably get back in finite time! What are you complaining about?!" 08:34:23 What a whiner :v 08:34:46 The character was never human. 08:34:51 Not that that necessarily helps 08:35:00 wait shit wasn't he an electron 08:35:07 they're not half bad at random 08:35:24 Looks like we have a winning plan 08:35:40 GreyKnight: Uh... oerjan does the swatting around here. 08:36:17 Bike: a molecule 08:36:35 * GreyKnight cattle-prods shachaf -----*** 08:36:49 hm, i wonder. in three dimensions random motion will get you away and all, but what about the direction? if hell extends infinitely downwards would he still be stuck there forever? 08:40:53 Help I'm readdicted to 1/0 08:40:58 random motion will get you back along any one or two axes, so he should get back to the surface. 08:41:30 although probably not at the same point, but he can just go randomly along the surface. 08:41:38 *then he can 08:41:54 Thus reducing the problem to a 2D random walk :-) 08:42:18 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: brb). 08:42:25 Sgeo|web_: I was getting addicted to not knowing what you were addicted to. 08:42:28 but then he'll return to his starting point! 08:42:29 But now I'm having withdrawal. 08:42:46 Bike: i thought that was the idea 08:42:56 I mean, his starting point for eruption from the surface. 08:43:10 sure, as well as to any other point on the surface. 08:43:23 bah. 08:43:28 he should just fly up and look. 08:43:31 fwiw, there's a large dead bear that's been converted into dirt on the surface 08:43:40 ...that sounds like a better idea XD 08:43:55 dead bears are always a good idea. 08:43:58 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 08:44:32 Sgeo|web_: so you thought you'd come and get us (re)addicted too? THANKS 08:45:32 : ) 08:45:42 obviously what we need is tailsteak's hamsteaks fanart instead 08:48:28 :t 1 / 0 08:48:30 Fractional a => a 08:50:00 > signum 1/0 08:50:02 Infinity 08:50:16 unhelpful. 08:50:22 precedence 08:50:49 > signum (1/0) 08:50:50 1.0 08:51:04 that seems bad. 08:51:17 :t signum 08:51:19 Num a => a -> a 08:51:25 i'd assume that's correct ieee behavior? 08:52:33 hm, so it is. bother bother 08:52:42 > signum 1 08:52:43 1 08:52:57 So it goes to float because of the infinity? 08:53:07 no, because of the / 08:53:11 :t signum (1/0) 08:53:12 Fractional a => a 08:53:20 > signum (-1/0) 08:53:22 -1.0 08:53:27 is that a float? i thought i just learned it was just a rational 08:54:18 > (0 :+ 1) / 0 08:54:20 NaN :+ NaN 08:54:24 > signum(2/2) 08:54:26 1.0 08:54:31 Hm! 08:54:35 it's a Double. Rational is just the type used for interpreting decimal notation _before_ converting it to the actual type. 08:54:44 botheration. 08:54:55 > (1 :+ 1) / 0 08:54:55 > 2/2 08:54:56 NaN :+ NaN 08:54:57 can't find file: L.hs 08:55:10 wat 08:55:19 L is so overrated 08:55:23 the default default declaration is "default (Integer, Double)" 08:55:26 > signum NaN 08:55:28 Not in scope: data constructor `NaN' 08:55:45 > map signum [1/0, -1/0, 0/0, -0/0] 08:55:46 [1.0,-1.0,-1.0,-1.0] 08:55:47 except sometimes it's "default ((), Integer, Double)" 08:55:52 > 2 / 2 08:55:54 1.0 08:56:00 Oh, there we go 08:56:12 Hm I hadn't expected that 08:56:14 > signum (-0/0) -- negative 1, hopefully 08:56:16 -1.0 08:56:20 woo 08:56:27 that L.hs message is essentially just a lambdabot race condition of some sort. 08:56:32 (Well, I had after the discussion above, but not previously) 08:56:36 > signum (1/-0) 08:56:38 Not in scope: `/-' 08:56:38 Perhaps you meant one of these: 08:56:38 `-' (imported from P... 08:56:43 > signum (1/ -0) 08:56:43 Hah. 08:56:45 Precedence parsing error 08:56:45 cannot mix `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] and prefix... 08:56:49 > signum (1/ (-0)) 08:56:51 -1.0 08:57:48 wait, nan's have well-defined signs? 08:58:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:58:21 don't think so? 08:58:42 Yes, NaNs have a sign bit. 08:58:51 Yep 08:59:00 :t / 08:59:02 parse error on input `/' 08:59:04 IEEE nans do have signs. 08:59:06 :t (/) 08:59:07 Fractional a => a -> a -> a 08:59:09 Oops 08:59:10 Alas, 0/0 seems to produce a negative NaN. 08:59:22 Whether it's "well-defined" is another matter. 08:59:28 > signum (0/0) 08:59:29 -1.0 08:59:45 it's conceivable it is comparing it to 0 in haskell 08:59:59 rather than using whatever the C function is 09:00:20 copysign. 09:00:24 signbit. 09:00:44 @src RealFloat 09:00:44 Source not found. I feel much better now. 09:00:52 Okay, so 2/2 evaluates to a Fractional because Haskell doesn't want to have two possible result types for (/) 09:00:57 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:01:01 Well, either. 09:01:02 But signbit seems to give 128 for both 0.0/0 and -0.0/0 here. 09:01:27 GreyKnight: um Fractional isn't a type, it's a type class. there are several types it can give. 09:01:51 Er right 09:01:57 This is the best type class: 09:01:58 @src Real 09:01:58 class (Num a, Ord a) => Real a where 09:01:58 toRational :: a -> Rational 09:02:02 (Told you I wasn't very good at Haskell :v) 09:02:03 Isn't it great? 09:04:43 I am just trying to figure out why 2/2 doesn't end up as an integer 09:05:09 because Integer isn't a member of the Fractional type class 09:05:09 Because of the type of (/) you looked at earlier. 09:05:14 And that. 09:05:35 > 2 `div` 2 09:05:36 1 09:05:43 that's integral division 09:06:07 > 2 `quot` 2 09:06:09 1 09:06:13 That's faster in general 09:06:15 > 2 `quot` 2 -- or this, different on ne... dammit Deewiant 09:06:16 1 09:06:32 Okay, so I was on the right track, just s/type/type class/ :-P 09:06:33 ...gative numbers. 09:07:41 making things polymorphic over different number types was one of the main original reasons type classes were invented. then they found fancier uses. 09:11:46 0xffffffff is the NaNniest (single-precision) NaN. 09:11:50 (It's also negative.) 09:12:12 elliott: monqy Fiora 09:12:30 Do you people even read that thing? 09:12:42 Sgeo|web_: Sgeo|web_ Sgeo|web_ 09:14:12 -!- Yonkie has joined. 09:15:24 For the record, at least my ghci's signum does not actually look at the sign bit; http://sprunge.us/eUPP -- all NaNs are negative. 09:16:25 signum x | x == 0.0 = 0 | x > 0.0 = 1 | otherwise = negate 1 09:16:30 Good old GHC. 09:16:50 fizzie: Methinks you're doing it wrong, or then my libc is also doing it wrong. 09:17:19 That's the Report's definition, of course. 09:17:45 fizzie: Scratch that, I was doing it wrong. 09:19:44 Deewiant: http://sprunge.us/hfiP -- it even prints as -nan. 09:20:02 Yes, I was doing it wrong. 09:20:39 Using 'unsigned long long' like that is also doing it somewhat wrong, though it doesn't seem to matter there. 09:21:19 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: bbl). 09:22:39 What else except the usual things (not exactly defined representations for either unsigned long long or double) is wrong with it? 09:23:17 (I would've used uint64_t but was writing it in cat > tmp.c and hadn't remembered to #include .) 09:24:09 Hmm, I thought at least C11 would've mandated IEEE 754 but I guess not. 09:24:26 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:24:50 In that case it's a crapshoot anyway. I thought 'double' would be guaranteed 64 bits. 09:24:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:25:32 I *could've* added #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error "uh what are you *on* there?" #endif to it. 09:26:12 You still need uint64_t, making sure its sizeof is 8 and CHAR_BIT is 8. 09:26:37 I don't think I need those last two. 09:26:42 Or I guess you can be CHAR_BIT agnostic as long as uint64_t is an exact multiple of it. 09:26:54 Doesn't that avoid padding bits? Or are those included in CHAR_BIT. 09:27:16 uint64_t cannot have padding. 09:27:31 Oh, that's mandated? Well that's convenient. 09:27:37 If it exists at all, it must be a multiple of CHAR_BIT. 09:27:44 It's not mandated to exist, though. :p 09:28:02 Right, but if it doesn't it's a compilation error so that's fine. 09:28:24 I also don't think even __STDC_IEC_559__ mandates that byte order needs to be the same for 'double' and 'uint64_t', which would be an issue for the few systems where CHAR_BIT < 64. 09:28:51 -!- Yonkie has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:30:00 'double' in that case has a known order, though, so you just need to write your integer rightly. 09:31:56 (Two's-complement is also mandated for the fixed-width intN_t, for the record.) 09:34:50 -!- Yonkie has joined. 09:35:27 "The coin toss is the most platykurtic distribution" -- that's an awesome word. 09:35:57 Platykurtic vs. leptokurtic. 09:37:14 Platykurtic platypus. (An Ubuntu code name?) 09:37:27 vote for ubuntu, let's submit idea to them 09:37:38 Maybe for their next go-around; they already did a P. 09:40:15 Hrm. I reloaded the webmail, and the page was replaced by an otherwise-empty page except for the words "The custom error module does not recognize this error." 09:44:51 Help I slept for around 8 hours during the day and I can't seem to fall asleep now 09:45:10 Although I have a 4 page essay due on Tuesday and had plans to spend Monday working on it 09:48:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sleep? What a ridiculous concept.). 09:55:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:57:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:31 sgeo: you could start working on it now, till you get tired 10:08:05 the best method to get sleepy is still to try staying awake 10:12:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:13:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:29:06 -!- micahjoh1ston has joined. 10:29:09 -!- nortti_ has joined. 10:29:23 -!- elliott_ has joined. 10:31:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:34:02 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 10:34:02 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 10:34:02 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 10:34:02 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 10:34:02 -!- micahjohnston has quit (*.net *.split). 10:41:20 -!- ion has joined. 10:43:07 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:44:57 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:49:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:55:04 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:06:02 -!- evitable has joined. 11:11:50 -!- yiyus_ has changed nick to yiyus. 12:06:54 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:07:22 -!- Jafet has joined. 12:19:13 @tell zz038 Remember when you wanted { union { float f; unsigned u; }; f = 1.0f; dosomething(u); } be valid C, or at least a GCC extension? Turns out it in fact *is* valid C++. 12:19:13 Consider it noted. 12:20:06 fizzie: It is? 12:21:16 It is. 12:21:28 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 12:22:09 "An union of the form [thing like that] is an anonymous union. -- For the purposes of name lookup, the members of the anonymous union are considered to have been defined in the scope in which the anonymous union is declared." 12:22:14 (C++03.) 12:22:52 Oh, I thought you meant using one value of the union after setting a different one. 12:23:06 It even gives an example of void f() { union { int a; char *p; }; a = 1; p = "Jennifer"; } "Here a and p are used like ordinary (nonmember) variables, but since they are union members they have the same address." 12:24:00 No, just the scoping; but using one value after setting a different one is legal C99 and C11, assuming reinterpreting the representation does not end up with a trap representation. (Don't know about C++ in that case.) 12:27:00 (Ref. C11 footnote 95: "If the member used to read the contents of a union object is not the same as the member last used to store a value in the object, the appropriate part of the object representation of the value is reinterpreted as an object representation in the new type as described in 6.2.6 (a process sometimes called ‘‘type punning’’). This might be a trap representation." ... 12:27:06 ... Footnotes are non-normative, but the footnote is the only thing they added (in C99 TC-something, I think), so clearly they believe it's already deducible from the normative text. C99 did remove the explicit mention of it being undefined that C89 had.) 12:27:52 Oh, C89 is the one true C. 12:29:10 shachaf: http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=17782 "Status: X Withdrawn" 12:29:35 shachaf: no, k&r c is 12:30:13 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:31:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:33:03 Maybe I should clarify, though. 12:33:08 @tell zzo38 That is, the name lookup is done the way you wanted, with the members being considered defined in the scope in which the union is declared. I have not checked whether C++ makes it undefined to read an union member that was not the one last written to. 12:33:09 Consider it noted. 12:38:06 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 12:41:18 -!- Sgeo|web_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:45:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:54:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:55:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:56:57 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:32 -!- carado has joined. 13:33:59 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:34:42 -!- ion has joined. 13:50:40 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:51:09 -!- variable has joined. 14:01:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:29:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:32:19 -!- augur has joined. 14:55:16 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:24:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:27:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:27:40 Help 15:27:40 Sugar 15:27:40 Aaah 15:27:45 hi 15:31:39 -!- ogrom has joined. 15:31:57 But yeah, I've had about 120% of my recommended daily sugar intake in the past 5 minutes 15:34:14 And I'm not good at sugar 15:34:28 why did you do a thing like that 15:34:52 I really fancied some coke 15:35:16 And now this 1.5L bottle is 2/3 empty 15:35:31 * Fiora prepares the insulin shots 15:37:10 I probably ought to modernize the family-tree library I wrote 15:37:57 It uses data-lens 15:39:42 Except I don't have Cabal here 15:40:26 I've heard there is no cabal. 15:40:57 Which will certainly explain why it isn't here 15:41:10 Oh no 15:41:17 It's going to get creepy here soon 15:41:26 Like, deserted school creepy 15:43:16 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:43:19 -!- Sgeo|school has joined. 15:43:23 -!- mroman has joined. 15:43:35 I'm suddenly having visions of code I write being used by tryclj.com 15:44:07 Sgeo|school joins and immediately says something about clojure 15:44:08 take a shot 15:44:23 kmc, but I've already had too much coke! 15:44:30 And I don't have a shot glass 15:44:36 alcohol balances out sugar/caffeine, everyone knows that 15:44:42 [nb: not actually true] 15:46:12 if my experience generalizes I can imagine you conking out in about 1 hour :P 15:46:24 (due to sugar) 15:46:42 Okay, that will give me 17 minutes to wake up again 15:47:15 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 15:49:54 Gregor: hi, ping 15:51:24 -!- Sgeo|school has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:53:50 -!- elliott has set topic: apparently people did dumb things to the topic so here's a new one http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:00:36 -!- FreeFull has set topic: apparently people did dumb things to the topic so here's a new one | Why not just have +t | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:07:52 -!- elliott has set topic: apparently people did dumb things to the topic so here's a new one http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 16:08:18 `run echo -e '\00314test' 16:08:20 ​4test 16:08:26 `run echo -e '\003 14test' 16:08:27 ​ 14test 16:08:35 `run echo -e '\e14test' 16:08:36 ​14test 16:08:39 hm what is ^C 16:09:33 3 according to a thing i found online 16:11:06 how'd i do \003 without the 1 getting included after tho 16:11:10 if only this was haskell and i had \& 16:11:27 oh 16:12:23 `run echo -e '\000314test' 16:12:24 ​test 16:12:30 cheating 16:12:31 & thx 16:16:27 http://www.extremetech.com/computing/142881-ibm-creates-first-cheap-commercially-viable-silicon-nanophotonic-chip hmm, nanophotonics 16:17:33 > 1 :: (Int,Int) 16:17:34 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Types.Int, GHC.Types.Int)) 16:17:34 arising fro... 16:17:51 was did there used to be an instance 16:18:36 yes 16:21:44 > (1,1) :: (Int,Int) 16:21:46 (1,1) 16:23:10 yes 16:26:08 `run hg diff -c 1002 | patch 16:26:12 patching file quotes \ Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R? [n] \ Apply anyway? [n] \ Skipping patch. \ 1 out of 1 hunk ignored -- saving rejects to file quotes.rej 16:26:22 right 16:26:24 `rm quotes.rej 16:26:27 No output. 16:26:28 `run hg diff -c 1002 | patch -R 16:26:33 patching file quotes 16:26:47 cool it works 16:26:50 `hg log 16:26:51 changeset: 1017:b1a219757d6a \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Dec 10 16:26:33 2012 +0000 \ summary: hg diff -c 1002 | patch -R \ \ changeset: 1016:e960263d7a5f \ user: HackBot \ date: Mon Dec 10 16:26:27 2012 +0000 \ summary: rm quotes.rej \ \ changeset: 1015:1cef8e6fa7e9 16:26:58 cool it 16:26:59 "works" 16:31:16 elliott: Why ping 16:31:25 Gregor: I... forget. 16:31:36 Gregor: oh right I was going to ask if hackego could support ansi colours but it already does??? 16:31:43 It does, yes. 16:31:54 The only characters it rejects now are \x00 and \x01. 16:32:05 Err, wait X-D 16:32:06 you should remove the dumb botloo pprefix thing imho 16:32:12 I keep forgetting what we're talking about. 16:32:26 ANSI colors it doesn't filter, but it's not like they'll work for most IRC clients. 16:32:31 mIRC colors work too. 16:32:49 Don't remove the botloo prefix! 16:32:59 We'll end up with botpoo all over the channel 16:34:17 :[ 16:34:36 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:35:12 Gregor: right I meant mIRC 16:35:17 Gregor: P.S. please remove the botloop thing it's so dumb 16:49:33 Never. 16:49:53 ok but how about change your mind 16:50:00 Mmmmm 16:50:14 I'll CONSIDER scheduling a change of heart. 16:55:02 thanks 17:04:13 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:06:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:06:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:10:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:23:00 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 17:44:50 headache + train with screeching brakes = headache^2 17:50:37 -!- nooga has joined. 17:58:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:02:17 -!- Bike has joined. 18:34:23 hm..headache + train with no screeching brakes = no head 18:35:08 On the plus side, no headache anymore 18:35:15 right 18:36:30 but i guess i know what you're talking about.. have some trails directly in front of my window 18:36:43 just waiting for the right train to jump on 18:36:59 someone elses train 18:39:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:45:28 @quote 18:45:28 says: Looks more like lenses reinvented Java Beans. 18:45:56 what 18:45:59 HaskellBeans :-D 18:46:03 @forget Looks more like lenses reinvented Java Beans. 18:46:03 Done. 18:46:13 D-: 18:46:27 does anyone here know where to find gcc 0.9 or 1.0? 18:47:18 elliott, can you explain lenses? 18:47:45 depends on how much haskell you know 18:47:58 All I know is they have something to do with getting a stab 18:48:10 I am not too great with Haskell (yet) 18:51:13 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:51:36 do you know about functors and applicative functors 18:54:02 You don't need to "know about functors and applicative functors" to understand lenses. 18:54:16 you need to know about fucntors and applicative functors to understand lens 18:54:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:54:24 maybe GreyKnight was referring to lenses in general though 18:55:41 Hm I did not know there was a difference 18:56:05 Functors I know about 18:56:32 I will take lenses in general please! 18:56:36 well you can think of a lens from a to b as a getter and setter pair 18:56:41 (a -> b, a -> b -> a) 18:56:46 for instance 18:57:03 you have (a,b) -> b, (a,b) -> b -> (a,b) 18:57:08 get (a,b) = b 18:57:13 set (a,b) b' = (a,b') 18:57:24 so you have a SimpleLens (a,b) b 18:57:47 that's all there is to regular old lenses, really 18:57:57 plus some obvious laws like get (set x y) = y 18:58:14 you can, e.g. create a lens for each field of a record, which can both get the value in that field from a record and set it to something else 18:58:26 and you can compose them 18:58:29 Does the name "lens" have some significance I'm not grasping? 18:58:38 so for instance 18:58:46 data SomeRecord = SomeRecord { a :: Int, b :: Int } 18:58:53 er 18:58:56 data SomeRecord = SomeRecord { a :: (Int,Int), b :: Int } 18:59:25 let's say you have a lens for the a field of that record (here you have get rec = a rec; set rec newA = rec { a = NewA }) 18:59:36 you can compose that with the lens for the second element of a tuple (which I showed above) 19:00:05 and get the resulting lens acts like: get (SomeRecord { a = (1,2), b = 3 }) --> 2 19:00:19 set (SomeRecord { a = (1,2), b = 3 }) 4 = SomeRecord { a = (1,4), b = 3 } 19:00:42 you can just use this representation: data Lens a b = Lens { get :: a -> b, set :: a -> b -> a } 19:00:52 then get :: Lens a b -> a -> b, set :: Lens a b -> a -> b -> a 19:01:18 And presumably you could construct lenses to access the other Ints in SomeRecord in the obvious fashion 19:01:23 yes 19:01:26 GreyKnight: It lets you "focus" on some particular part of a structure. 19:01:38 Ah, bad puns. Okay. 19:01:44 or just any computed function of that field..right? 19:01:50 compose :: Lens a b -> Lens b c -> Lens a c; compose lens1 lens2 = Lens { get = \x -> get lens2 (get lens1 x); set = \x y -> ...try writing this... } 19:01:57 (I want you to try writing it because I'm too lazy to.) 19:02:03 shachaf: my new laptop has shipped after all 19:02:08 and the charge is back on the card 19:02:10 so no free laptop :( 19:02:25 Anyway the lens library itself uses the same basic ideas, but it uses a fancier representation that lets you write a lot of operations on them more nicely and compose them more conveniently and stuff. 19:02:48 But lenses in general are very simple, you can just think of them as a getter-setter pair. 19:03:06 Prisms are a related concept, right? 19:03:14 yes 19:03:22 (presumably more punnage) 19:03:59 if a lens is: (a -> b, a -> b -> a), you can think of a prism as: (b -> a, a -> Maybe b) 19:04:05 they're actually more closely related than it looks 19:04:17 but showing that involves slightly more complicated types 19:04:33 a prism is basically a first class "constructor"... you can put a value in a constructor and possibly take it out 19:04:37 so for 19:04:37 data Foo = A Int | B String 19:04:42 you have Prism Foo Int, Prism Foo String 19:04:53 (A, \x -> case x of A y -> Just y; _ -> Nothing) 19:04:59 and (B, \x _> case x of B y -> Just y; _ -> Nothing) respectively 19:06:38 Hm how come prisms use a -> Maybe b whereas lenses use a -> b ? 19:06:43 Or wait 19:07:18 you can't really see that they're related with those definitions 19:07:41 Lost my train of thought, stupid headache 19:08:27 yea, it's still not clear but thank for the kickstart elliott 19:09:05 at least i have basic idea now 19:09:30 Also they really do look like Haskell's answer to JavaBeans :-) 19:10:01 -!- nooga has joined. 19:10:50 they seem to be the fashion of this winter 19:11:08 everyone is talking about 19:11:19 tomorrow is the ceremonial ground breaking on the boston Green Line Extension 19:11:45 they are going to spend 7 years and one billion dollars to extend an existing light rail line about 6km along an existing rail corridor 19:12:03 assuming there are no additional delays or cost overruns, of course 19:13:11 Sounds legit 19:14:24 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:14:53 -!- GreyKnight has changed nick to apparently. 19:15:13 -!- apparently has changed nick to GreyKnight. 19:17:24 -!- nooga_ has joined. 19:20:30 fashion 19:20:43 oops 19:20:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:21:01 dumidumidum *sing 19:21:19 hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 19:21:40 Give us a twirl 19:21:52 damn 19:21:57 i'm looking good 19:26:00 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:26:00 Hm we have Lens and Prism... what about Mirror? 19:26:23 It could implement reflection-like abilities :-) 19:26:29 There is Iso. 19:27:00 * elliott sort of likes the idea of renaming Iso to Mirror 19:27:12 it avoids the abbreviation and analogises well with Lens/Prism 19:27:26 indeed 19:28:54 we should talk with the marketing guys to change this 19:34:06 anyway..you may swat me hard, i'm still not really convinced haskell could be used to implement bigger software projects.. at least while not employing a bunch of scientists as programmers 19:34:25 i think the 'lens' logo should be http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png/220px-Dark_Side_of_the_Moon.png 19:35:45 Haskell is already used to implement bigger software projects by non-scientists though 19:35:53 so your claim is too absurd to even need rebutting 19:38:41 the reference list litarature is a small time 19:41:10 elliott are you a student of computer science or sth? 19:41:18 personally, i'm not really convinced c++ could be used to implement bigger software projects... 19:41:40 i'm not really convinced that bigger software projects can be implemented 19:41:48 hagb4rd: depends on your definition of "student" 19:42:01 on second thought, yes, kmc, i'm not convinced of that either 19:42:04 I think the idea of implementing bigger software projects in C is more unthinkable than doing so in Haskell anyway, and evidently that happens 19:42:10 oh arcatan beat me to it 19:42:14 "C/C++" 19:43:58 no i'm really not into some religious war or sth..it's just that 70 to 80 percent of software-costs is mostly spent on maintance 19:44:18 and the code i've seen so far seems not be easy maintained 19:44:49 and your average Haskell program can well be more easily maintainable than your average C program, assuming competent people for both tasks 19:45:16 it is very easy to get lots of things wrong in C that just aren't possible to get wrong in Haskell, and experts get these things wrong all the time 19:45:17 ight 19:45:22 hence the existence of segfaults for reasons other than compiler bugs 19:45:22 this discussion is quite elucidating 19:45:40 quite hallucinating 19:48:27 yep the experts you are talking about are at first not easy to get, and for this reason not very cheap.. i guess the technique u choose to implement a software solution cannot be decided in general for all time 19:49:06 would you agree so far 19:50:10 it's not impossible to get those things wrong in haskell either 19:50:31 but you are only exposed to those errors in a small subset of the code you write 19:50:42 kmc: well it is impossible for a Haskell 2010 program, compiled with a non-buggy compiler, that does not use the FFI, to segfault 19:50:59 sure but real programs use the FFI 19:51:03 admittedly, those conditions are not usually true 19:51:12 but it's nothing compared to the fact that a C program uses the FFI every line :p 19:52:21 It is quite possible for said Haskell 2010 program to terminate saying e.g. "head: empty list" or "fromJust: Nothing" 19:52:46 Which is hardly better than a segfault 19:52:53 This is why I think JavaScript made a mistake in not letting you dereference or call undefined. 19:52:54 it is better 19:53:01 Deewiant: that is better in several ways 19:53:10 If they'd just made those return undefined, then it would barrel on endlessly no matter what you did :) 19:53:11 a segfault is just a lucky outcome of undefined behavior 19:53:15 for one, there is no security risk 19:53:22 at least not the kind segfaults imply 19:53:41 Right, that can matter in some contexts 19:53:47 for two, you know that program will always output that under those conditions -- it is "reasonable behaviour", not just stuff going wrong 19:54:01 for three you get a useful error message :P 19:54:16 of course, that doesn't mean partial functions are a good thing 19:54:22 but they're a lot less bad of a thing 19:54:39 it's weird to pick Haskell as the exemplar memory safe language 19:54:56 Re. two: in practice you usually know the other program will always segfault as well :-P 19:55:02 I was just using memory unsafety as an obvious, universal example of something C does really badly 19:55:03 no 19:55:05 no no no no no no 19:55:09 Deewiant: no no no no no no no 19:55:27 kmc: Do elaborate 19:55:34 last but not least if youthe everyday software programming is that sophisticated.. (it's almost boring) as many of 19:55:34 i wonder what are the biggest headaches experienced by the real maintenance programmers working on e.g. C++ or Java projects 19:55:37 elliott: C does unsafety very *well*, you mean? 19:55:40 a segfault is a lucky outcome of undefined behavior 19:55:43 sometimes you don't get lucky 19:55:45 olsner: good point 19:55:48 and how much programming language features affect that 19:56:08 sometimes you get slightly wrong results 19:56:12 sometimes you get permanent data corruption 19:56:17 sometimes you get exploitable security holes 19:56:19 kmc: In practice if it segfaulted once it usually will segfault the second time as well 19:56:27 Or I don't know, usually in my programs 19:56:28 C programmers who treat segfaults as the worst case outcome scare the fuck out of me 19:56:44 sure "usually" meaning 99% of the time 19:56:44 lol 19:56:50 but now run that program in production for 10 years 19:56:55 and also expose it to adversarial attackers 19:57:02 some weird shit will happen 19:57:12 * elliott bets that 99% is more like 50% in the presence of pthreads. 19:57:12 That's a situation I wouldn't want to put a C program in 19:57:30 so you would not use C in production or for anything with security requirements 19:57:30 Deewiant: sounds like an argument Haskell's failure conditions are better 19:57:31 Re. three: there are more tools for finding the cause of segfaults than for "fromJust: Nothing" :-P 19:57:40 elliott: I'd say it's situational 19:57:59 Sometimes you care about not segfaulting, sometimes it's not that big a deal 19:58:11 not having the possibility of segfault* 19:58:20 again "segfault" is the symptom and it's the mildest of all symptom 19:58:31 I'm not disagreeing with you on that 19:58:33 if a segfault isn't a problem I don't see how head [] can be 19:58:35 it's like if i said it's ok to get AIDS because having a cough is not so bad 19:58:48 Non sequitur 19:58:53 hella sequitur 19:58:56 exactly.. i'm sure haskell has its advatages.. in many use cases 19:59:09 can we just say "invalid memory access" instead of "segfault" instead 19:59:19 elliott: I'd rather see a C segfault than a Haskell 'head []' when developing something unless GHC's debugging facilities have improved to the point that I can find the latter quickly 19:59:30 you can use -xc to get a backtrace these days 19:59:43 ghc: unrecognised flags: -xc 19:59:44 But okay 19:59:48 another point is that it's a lot easier to write Haskell that doesn't use partial functions than it is to write a C program that has no risk of segfault 19:59:48 it's a RTS flag 20:00:04 ghc: the flag -xc requires the program to be built with -prof 20:00:16 That's a bit annoying but oh well 20:00:24 again it's weird that this discussion of memory safety is "C vs Haskell" and not "C vs almost every other language" 20:00:36 well it was a C vs. Haskell thing 20:00:42 i agree that GHC's debugging and error-finding tools are shitty 20:00:44 just the subject ate the ject 20:00:53 originally said the subsubject ate the subject but decided that was redundant 20:00:55 elliott: And yes, it is, but it's not easy :-P Now you have to be very careful about all library code etc 20:00:58 if we're still talking about long-term software projects started today, I don't think that C will be the language of choice for many of them 20:01:09 a lot of Haskell tools suck even though these problems should be easier in Haskell 20:01:12 just because it is a niche language 20:01:12 Deewiant: I'm like 10x more paranoid of C libraries than Haskell libraries 20:01:57 kmc: Right, much (all? I forget) of my argument regards the tooling 20:02:14 elliott: Sure, I didn't say C is any easier :-) 20:02:51 -!- ogrom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:04:13 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:04:32 anyway I would rather maintain a badly-written Haskell program than a badly-written C program at the very least 20:04:51 you're hired! 20:05:12 i don't necessarily agree with that elliott 20:05:32 If they're equally large, I'm not so sure either 20:05:59 my idea of a badly-written Haskell program is that 10 people worked on it, and each one thought they were super clever, but also fundamentally misunderstood at least one aspect of the language 20:06:13 and so it will be full of excessively clever things that don't quite make sense and don't fit together 20:06:27 in other words more like C++ than C 20:07:12 C has a lot of problems and badly written C code is a nightmare, but it doesn't have this problem in particular 20:07:17 it does depend on context though 20:07:41 if security is extremely important, and the program will be exposed to lots of malicious input, i will still prefer the badly written haskell code 20:07:49 I think it's generally easier to make a Haskell program less dumb. 20:07:58 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:08:04 if security is extremely important I'd rather not be maintaining the program whatever language it's in :P 20:08:06 or else treat the C program as untrusted and heavily sandbox it 20:08:38 it's that code should be understood and basically easy read if possible.. so putting 10 lines of code into one that makes you look pretty clever is the one of the worst case scenarios when it comes to maintenance 20:08:53 (in real life) 20:09:58 yeah 20:10:09 and haskell doesn't have to be written that way, but it often is 20:10:20 because most people writing haskell are excited beginners and not seasoned professionals 20:10:58 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:32 well you can do exactly the same in C 20:11:33 however 1 really clever function that gets used 50 times is better than 50 separate simple functions 20:11:46 and I'd prefer to refactor the Haskell 20:11:54 and i admit my first impression of haskell was that there are ways to express things shorter without loosing readability 20:12:51 especially handling data stuff 20:14:06 thanks to the guys that implemented the lambda calculus in c#.. that would be the next i miss in c 20:15:00 i'm sure the one thing elliott hates more than c is c# 20:15:02 :p 20:15:09 huh 20:15:14 C# is a pretty good language 20:15:16 it is memory safe 20:15:35 it supports many styles well, including expressive functional programming 20:16:07 it has LINQ 20:16:10 yea 20:16:15 linq is great 20:16:28 and mono is evolving pretty well so far 20:16:52 that's good 20:20:30 -!- nooga has joined. 20:40:43 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: You hit the grey light. It explodes!). 20:44:12 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:49:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:49:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:49:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:50:11 -!- boily has joined. 20:50:17 * hagb4rd puts some self-made xmas cookies into the channel 20:53:06 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 20:53:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:53:43 eat! 20:53:48 they are not poisoned 20:58:20 -!- boily1 has joined. 21:01:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:01:41 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:01:58 -!- boily1 has changed nick to boily. 21:03:31 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 21:05:24 -!- variable has joined. 21:11:57 "Apple Maps 'is life-threatening' to motorists lost in Australia heat" 21:12:02 -- BBC 21:14:22 it's not life-threatening, just 'life threatening' 21:17:04 A Finnish paper had that (well, similar) headline today too. 21:17:15 Guns don't kill people, Apple Maps kill people. 21:17:24 Australia kills people 21:17:24 (That wasn't the headline.) 21:18:32 I think fizzie should write the headlines 21:19:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:20:14 We just bought Helsinki-Imatra-Helsinki train tickets (that's about 250 km one way) for two, and they cost substantially less than the local regional traffic tickets we'll need to get to the Helsinki Central Railway Station. 21:20:45 heh 21:21:06 with ryanair and such, you can spend less on a plane ticket than on getting to the airport :) 21:21:13 i've also taken a $2.50 metro ride to a $1 intercity bus 21:21:24 They're running this "advent calendar" thing where there's every day a new (A, B) pair and a set of particular trains between those points, and it costs fixed 1.50 eur/person. 21:22:05 And of course it's only valid if bought during that day. 21:22:07 (The local traffic trip is something like 3.37 eur or thereabouts when bought with the RFID card dealie.) 21:22:32 cool 21:22:53 so you have to go on the day of purchase? do they list the city pairs ahead of time? 21:23:35 No, you just have to purchase today; the travel times vary a bit, but for today's deal it was something like January 7th to January 31st. 21:24:09 (And therefore the routes aren't revealed in advance, of course.) 21:24:18 -!- augur has joined. 21:24:52 elliott: Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey here's a thought. 21:25:04 oh god 21:25:05 elliott: http://phantomjs.org/ + some glue code = modern textmode browser. 21:25:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:25:10 We did have to take the 07:12am train instead of the more human-friendly 10:12am one since the other one was already sold out (it's 11:25pm here so today's deal was quite old), but still. 21:25:15 -!- augur has joined. 21:25:25 that was 21:25:33 quite far away from any thought I was expecting you to tell me 21:25:48 by "local traffic tickets" do you mean a local train or something else? 21:25:50 "PhantomJS is an optimal solution for" not sure they know what "optimal" means 21:25:51 elliott: Probably over a year ago we (or perhaps not you at all) were discussing how shitty text mode browsers are ;) 21:25:59 it might have been me 21:26:01 they are very shitty 21:26:07 a beautiful, elegant, awesome browser that celebrates craftsmanship 21:26:16 kmc++ 21:26:32 Wait, what is that referencing? I thought I knew but now I don't. 21:27:35 internet explorer, right? 21:28:46 https://addons.heroku.com/bonsai 21:29:28 nice 21:29:47 kmc: The Helsinki/Espoo/Vantaa/Kauniainen regional area has pretty much just one type of tickets for trains/subway/buses/trams, so I mean those. (There's one price for in-city traffic, and another for the four-city zone... and then it gets more confusing, since the regional traffic... conglomeration sells bus-and-train tickets also for the neighbour municipalities, while the railway company ... 21:29:53 ... sells train-only tickets for those places, with completely different pricing schemas; but that's not really relevant any longer; and anyway who'd want to go there?) 21:30:17 (Uh, and Kauniainen counts as Espoo for the purposes of local traffic, because it's an enclave city kind of thing. Finland's last one, in fact.) 21:30:37 ok 21:31:06 fizzie: did you count where you'd need to put those ...s 21:31:18 I think by 2015 they have a new thing where they set up new fare zones and forget the actual city boundaries, since they're not terribly logical. (The new zones are roughly circular bands around the Helsinki centrum.) 21:31:24 elliott: No, it was splitlong.pl. 21:31:43 fizzie: it does that??? 21:31:46 that's fancy 21:32:08 Well, it puts what you /set splitlong_line_end to the end, and splitlong_line_start to the start. 21:32:20 But they default to " ..." and "... ". (Or maybe the spaces are implicit.) 21:32:31 (No, they're explicit.) 21:33:12 You could have splitlong_line_end of "\" and splitlong_line_end of "" for a kind of a programmer's approach. 21:34:04 splitlong_line_end = "HEY WAIT A SECOND JUST GONNA INSERT A LINEBREAK HERE" 21:34:12 splitlong_line_end = "OK AS I WAS SAYING: " 21:34:16 er 21:34:22 I copied the mistake from fizzie's line 21:35:18 Wow, elliott, that's a HEY WAIT A SECOND JUST GONNA INSERT A LINEBREAK HERE 21:35:23 OK AS I WAS SAYING: great idea. 21:35:42 OK AS I WAS SAYING: HEY WAIT A SECOND JUST GONNA INSERT A LINEBREAK HERE 21:35:43 OK AS I WAS SAYING: HEY WAIT A SECOND JUST GONNA INSERT A LINEBREAK HERE 21:35:43 OK AS I WAS SAYING: HEY WAIT A SECOND JUST GONNA INSERT A LINEBREAK HERE 21:35:47 You want that kind of a loop. 21:36:12 (I don't know what happens if you do set them long enough to result in that.) 21:36:21 (I suspect it's going to explode.) 21:39:36 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:18:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:27:39 -!- Gregor has quit (Excess Flood). 22:27:47 -!- Gregor has joined. 22:30:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:31:49 "Sundown is a zero-dependency library composed of 3 .c files and their headers. No dependencies, no bullshit." 22:31:52 yeah fuck that "code reuse" bullshit 22:32:13 real hackers etc 22:32:39 I see kmc has never tried to install an edwardk package 22:34:22 kmc: Does it still depend on a C compiler? 22:34:30 If so I won't use it. 22:34:38 Real Hackers can compile C by hand 22:34:40 kmc: hah 22:34:45 otherwise how would you know it's secure?!?!? 22:36:11 one more and i start to think it was ironic :p 22:36:23 kmc: Did you hear NumInstances is out of lambdabot? 22:36:57 oh? 22:36:58 cool 22:37:00 story? 22:37:29 It was confusing someone in here. 22:37:32 I told Cale it was confusing. 22:37:35 He took it out. 22:37:40 cool! 22:37:52 And now 14:32 man shachaf is the death of fun in #haskell ;) 22:39:46 shachaf is the death! 22:42:12 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:43:48 Is Caleskell documented anywhere? 22:44:53 L.hs 22:44:55 documented only in the cries of horrified and confused beginners 22:45:13 just avoid lambdabot on Malbolge Mondays 22:45:20 when @run runs Malbolge instead of Haskell 22:47:17 @run 2+2 22:47:27 :( 22:54:56 `? finnish 22:54:58 Finnish suomalaiset ei Perkeleistä on hakkapeliittaan. Ei saa peittää. Parasta ennen! 22:55:16 elliott!!!!!!!! 22:55:21 Did you write the new `quote? 22:55:39 $ wc -l qdb.py 22:55:40 120 qdb.py 22:56:01 So? 22:56:03 Upload it! 22:57:44 120 lines! for adding a line of text to a text file? 23:00:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:13:26 `addquote headache + train with screeching brakes = headache^2 hm..headache + train with no screeching brakes = no head On the plus side, no headache anymore 23:13:29 862) headache + train with screeching brakes = headache^2 hm..headache + train with no screeching brakes = no head On the plus side, no headache anymore 23:20:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:21:54 `addquote [after discussing Haskell lenses] they seem to be the fashion of this winter < hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:21:57 863) [after discussing Haskell lenses] they seem to be the fashion of this winter < hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:21:58 oops 23:22:00 `revert 23:22:02 Done. 23:22:18 `addquote [after discussing Haskell lenses] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:22:21 863) [after discussing Haskell lenses] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:22:36 oerjan: "discussing lens", surely. 23:22:41 well, I guess it was just lenses in general 23:22:42 OKAY 23:22:45 but they're not Haskell-specific! 23:22:57 hi oerjan 23:23:06 perhaps that should go in lam... oh it's not here 23:23:10 hi hagb4rd 23:23:30 `delquote 863 23:23:35 ​*poof* [after discussing Haskell lenses] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:24:10 `addquote [after discussing lens] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:24:13 863) [after discussing lens] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 23:26:59 JEEZ guys, double space. 23:27:01 IT'S IMPORTANT. 23:27:48 but it's nothing compared to the fact that a C program uses the FFI every line :p <-- that darn C-to-C ffi, so convenient but dangerous 23:28:21 hm? no double space around [...] in..cisions 23:29:03 hm wrong word. 23:29:29 Gregor: that quote follows the standards. 23:29:51 yay! 23:29:55 cuts in the quote = incisions, makes sense 23:29:58 * oerjan wasn't entirely sure himself 23:30:29 `echo HALP GUYS I'M TOO FAST 23:30:30 HALP GUYS I'M TOO FAST 23:30:39 Gregor: want me to de-optimise hackego? 23:30:44 who cares if it's the right word if it means something vaguely similar to what you mean 23:31:00 It would be cool if UML could be made to blow up if you try to write. 23:31:02 echo 'echo sleep 0.1 >> .bashrc' >> .bashrc 23:31:20 Blow-up-on-write is clearly the best write policy. 23:31:38 Gregor: You can do that 23:31:40 just use a custom FS 23:31:55 shouldn't be very long with FUSE 23:32:18 Gregor: in fact you could unionfs the normal FS and a FUSE empty-but-stops-everything-on-any-write FS 23:32:35 'snot a bad idea. 23:33:05 I'm not sure whether the current slowdown is mostly launching UML or `hg status` though. If it's the former, then there's not much point to piling more on that ;) 23:33:10 presumably the latter would send a message to the hackego supervisor stuff 23:33:13 which would then kill -9 23:33:31 Gregor: well it should be easy to time them with python 23:33:48 Gregor: I forget, what does your UML use as init? 23:33:49 But I'm sooooo laaaaazy :( 23:33:56 Its own custom thing. 23:34:07 init just mounts some shit then runs what you asked. 23:34:22 Right, I was wondering what the init itself is 23:34:25 So I could micro-optimise it 23:34:53 I doubt that it's the problem, probably the kernel is, but: https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox/src/802cc63695cab6922b1b1f8c7815612c4f8dc3a4/init.c?at=default 23:35:26 Gregor: Oh right, you could probably save a good amount of time by stripping down the kernel 23:35:45 ^^´ 23:35:52 I was trying to figure out if I can remove the bogomips calculation. 23:35:56 That's pretty retarded and takes time. 23:35:58 Can't find it though. 23:36:04 Or rather, can't find an option for it. 23:38:01 Gregor: it occurs to me that you don't necessarily need to use hg status 23:38:12 you could compare the dir trees with diff or something 23:38:16 I suspect hg status is not super-optimised 23:38:29 Quite probably. 23:38:31 `run tree | paste 23:38:36 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1294 23:38:56 | `-- \357\274\267\357\274\245\357\274\254\357\274\243\357\274\257\357\274\255\357\274\245 lolwut 23:38:57 Gregor: in fact... it may be that how UML/UMLBox works means files always change inode on being modified? 23:39:04 fizzie: found fungot failure, fix fast! 23:39:06 that would let you check whether anything changed superfast 23:39:27 elliott: I doubt it. 23:39:28 Gregor: Why is all the EgoBot stuff in HackEgo... 23:39:34 elliott: I'm working on merging them. 23:39:57 You could at least put them in a separate bin directory so the `/! separation could be maintained and `ls bin` didn't give a bunch of crap 23:40:11 -!- fungot has joined. 23:40:21 *waaaah* 23:40:25 fizzie: fabulous! 23:40:27 ^^ 23:40:48 (Note: I don't WANT to maintain the `/! separation) 23:41:04 well you can still separate the paths 23:41:11 how is fungot's twitter stream doing these days? 23:41:11 olsner: this is prob a premature question... but what would it do? where were you from? 23:41:14 Yeah, I could. 23:41:19 olsner: Offline. :/ 23:41:19 Gregor: maybe that's your unicode goat in UTF-8 23:41:22 interps/ too 23:41:30 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:41:34 anyhow 23:41:35 FireFly: 's not that many characters... 23:41:36 `run rm paste/* 23:41:37 *bytes 23:41:38 olsner: I keep forgetting to restart the poster script. 23:41:39 that should speed things up 23:41:44 No output. 23:41:44 Heh 23:41:59 `revert 23:42:02 probably not a good idea 23:42:04 Done. 23:42:30 Gregor: by the way what should I call hg diff -c "$1" | patch -R 23:42:41 Ahaha 23:42:46 elliott: backout? 23:42:49 Gregor: it's ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ 23:42:55 I was thinking "undo" 23:42:59 FireFly: X-D 23:43:14 elliott: backout is the mercurial name for a similar operation. 23:43:52 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ FireFly 23:43:54 probably not a good idea <-- wait why not 23:44:02 oerjan: because logs 23:44:07 ​/hackenv/bin/perl: 3: Cannot fork 23:44:08 Gregor: I bet HackEgo would be faster if it used git 23:44:14 elliott: Quite probably. 23:44:16 elliott: are the logs in paste/ ? 23:44:21 Gregor: I like how you broke "perl". 23:44:25 With the EgoBot stuff. 23:44:27 elliott: But I'm still not sure if hg is even the slow part. 23:44:30 Ohlol X-D 23:44:33 `run rm bin/perl 23:44:36 No output. 23:44:40 I was wondering wtf was going on there X-D 23:44:40 oh you mean references from the logs to paste/ 23:44:47 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ FireFly 23:44:49 ​ＦＩＲＥＦＬＹ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡ 23:44:53 Perfect. 23:44:55 Oh, thanks 23:45:00 `help 23:45:00 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:45:03 I'll make sure to check out that wiki 23:45:11 Gregor: P.S. nice Unicode failure pls fix? 23:45:23 I don't have any clue why that happened X-D 23:45:29 * elliott thinks rm bin/perl is a bit of an incomplete solution to this problem... 23:45:38 I note that this is a good argument for the !/` distinction :P 23:45:43 `url bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ 23:45:44 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ 23:46:00 Dahell? 23:46:01 Gregor: The Unicode failure is on HackEgo's part 23:46:05 rm bin/perl must be a step in the right direction though 23:46:08 "ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡ��" 23:46:14 You should .decode('utf-8') before length-limiting 23:46:28 I guess you need a loop since IRC's bounds are probably byte-based 23:46:31 No, I just want Python to treat it as raw, 8-bit crap. 23:46:31 (but beware, there may be more copies of perl) 23:46:46 Gregor: ...so you want that to be fucked up? 23:47:04 elliott: Cutting off mid-character is not a significant problem. 23:47:34 OHWAIT is it displaying like that because it cut off mid-character so my client went “ehhhh Latin-1” 23:47:36 X-D 23:48:33 `run ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ Gregor | head -c 3 23:48:35 ​Ｇ 23:48:40 Tee hee, tee hee ^^ 23:48:52 ah, I guess that's why it's broken for me too 23:49:10 `run echo $LANG 23:49:11 No output. 23:49:12 I was kinda hoping that output wouldn't have to be valid UTF-8 though... 23:49:14 Gregor: fix that :( 23:49:40 elliott: I will, but not whilst at work. 23:50:02 I'll try to make it so that if it fails to decode as UTF-8, it just does bytewise limiting. 23:50:31 by "that" I meant LANG being unset 23:50:37 Oh 23:50:43 LANGuage is for losers though. 23:50:51 it'd fix the head -c 3 thing 23:51:05 I chose 3 precisely so it'd output what I expected X-D 23:51:12 yes but it's still a bug 23:51:16 >: ( 23:51:22 problem with limiting UTF-8ly is that it's hard to maintain byte bounds without just chopping off one char at a time until it's fixed 23:52:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:53:26 LANGuid LANGuages. 23:54:14 elliott: I'm thinking, (1) decode as UTF-8. If it doesn't decode, just use bytes. (2) Cut it off to a byte limit, then decode in a mode I'm hoping Python provides, “throw bad shit away”, (3) Re-encode and send 23:55:09 Gregor: That sounds much worse than just while len(encoded) < limit: str = str[:-1]; encoded = str.encode('utf-8') 23:55:33 (After you do pre_decoded_str = pre_decoded_str[:limit]; str = pre_decoded_str.decode('utf-8')) 23:55:39 (So most of the time it'll never even get into that loop) 23:55:56 elliott: I want to preserve incorrect strings. 23:56:04 It does have that mode, though, unless I misremember. 23:56:11 Ohwait, no, you mean for (2). 23:56:13 What are you trying to decode? 23:56:15 No, mine is considerably more efficient. 23:56:19 er, I mean 23:56:23 after you do str = str[:limit] 23:56:35 Gregor: Throwing bad shit away is so gross :( 23:57:22 elliott: Bad shit only occurs at the end of the string because you cut it off. 23:57:30 I only run (2) if the whole string is valid. 23:57:57 :( 23:57:59 you are gross & bad 23:58:49 `locale 23:58:51 LANG=zh_TW.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="zh_TW 23:59:01 Fixed. 23:59:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:59:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:59:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 2012-12-11: 00:00:10 * oerjan blinks 00:00:25 `date 00:00:25 `locale 00:00:27 ​二 12月 11 00:00:26 UTC 2012 00:00:27 LANG=zh_TW.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="zh_TW.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="zh_TW 00:00:29 Gregor................... 00:00:29 `ls 00:00:30 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 00:00:34 `gcc 00:00:38 gcc: no input files 00:00:44 `? välkommen 00:00:47 välkommen Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.) 00:00:51 Darn, guess I'll have to install the locale files for gcc! 00:00:54 ok. 00:01:15 FireFly: um should that first word be there? 00:01:22 Don't ask me 00:01:24 `rm wisdom/välkommen 00:01:25 I didn't add it 00:01:26 malformed 00:01:28 No output. 00:02:50 elliott hates swedish, clearly 00:03:01 `words --swedish 50 00:03:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:03:05 mationel omspellet oordrin paschef byggorna vintränas avtalls duellt förmer systationat vidualera ten efter bakplatselet dånadegra skadespens omvänden örordnarna abordningar iakonia skockens munikat bedräggnit derna råddar 00:03:36 yes, he's not in the best mood today 00:04:07 oh right hm 00:04:12 `which words 00:04:14 ​/hackenv/bin/words 00:04:37 You could, instead of trying UTF-8 or not, make it an option whether it is UTF-8 or whether it is single-byte encoding. 00:05:09 `echo "Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.)" >wisdom/välkommen 00:05:10 ​"Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.)" >wisdom/välkommen 00:05:14 oops 00:05:16 `run echo "Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.)" >wisdom/välkommen 00:05:19 No output. 00:05:25 `? välkommen 00:05:27 Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.) 00:05:45 oerjan: You should make a combined SE/NO/DK welcome, like they have in shampoo bottles and the like. 00:05:57 ooh 00:06:28 ...or not. 00:07:06 `date 00:07:09 Tue Dec 11 00:07:08 UTC 2012 00:07:12 Piff 00:07:14 `locale 00:07:19 locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory \ locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory \ locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory \ LANG=fi.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="fi.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="fi.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="fi.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="fi.UTF-8" \ LC_MO 00:07:27 Oh dear X-D 00:07:39 fäncyssä 00:07:50 Not sure why that didn't work. 00:08:10 Oh, duh. 00:08:11 `date 00:08:12 ti 11.12.2012 00.08.12 +0000 00:08:17 There we go. 00:08:24 Now the vast majority of the channel should be happy. 00:08:29 `run echo fail > /fail 00:08:31 bash: /fail: Lupa evätty 00:08:38 ti 00:08:41 tuesday starts with "ti" in finnish? 00:08:54 oerjan: Tiistai. 00:09:11 SOMEONE DID A LAZY BORROWING 00:09:17 Maanantai, tiistai, keskiviikko, torstai, perjantai, lauantai, sunnuntai. 00:09:38 (Wed is literally "middleweek".) 00:09:45 As in german, then 00:10:12 oerjan: Praise be to Tyr's Day! 00:10:52 päivämäärä 00:10:57 Though personally I'm quite looking forward to Odin's Day. 00:11:02 the only word i know in finnish 00:11:37 hope it was right this time 00:11:50 google did not complain 00:11:56 `ls q 00:11:57 I like Freyja's day personally 00:11:57 ls: tiedostoa q ei voi käsitellä: Tiedostoa tai hakemistoa ei ole 00:12:08 I like this locale. 00:12:22 FireFly: It is a good day. 00:12:39 fizzie: how to ask a girl for a 'date' 00:12:59 Huh, it seems that's not the actual etymology of friday 00:13:08 I'm pretty sure I've been taught that it is at one point 00:13:45 It's actually Frigg. 00:14:23 -!- micahjoh1ston has changed nick to micahjohnston. 00:14:38 Apparently some argue that Frigg and Freyja might be the same goddess 00:18:07 according to a german source frigg was the wife of odin.. not the same as freyja.. though both are associated with marriage 00:19:11 fizzie: how does the combined SE/NO/DK text work? 00:20:10 half-heartedly, usually 00:24:29 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:25:30 no christmas without christ, no thursday without thor 00:26:00 `addquote no christmas without christ, no thursday without thor 00:26:04 864) no christmas without christ, no thursday without thor 00:26:05 by vectron's beard! 00:26:10 Hej/Hei och/og välkommen/velkommen till/til den/det internationella/internasjonale/internationale knutpunkten/knutepunktet/knudepunkt för/for design och/og distribution/distribusjon av esoteriska/esoteriske programspråk/programmeringsspråk/programmeringssprog! För/for mer information/informasjon, se vår/vores wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För/for den andra/andre/anden sortens/typen/sort esoterism/esoterisme, pröva/prøv #esoteric 00:26:32 Something like that, yeah 00:26:36 (danish may contain errors) 00:27:20 på irc.dal.net.) 00:27:23 most of those triplets are so close, why bother? 00:27:40 precisely! sometimes they don't. 00:27:40 They're all just English with a funny accent, why bother? 00:27:55 it seems like reading NO if you know SE should be no harder than reading EN youtube comments if you know non-idiot EN 00:27:59 kmc: mostly because they are so close ;) 00:28:19 they should just take the coolest looking word from each triplet 00:28:31 are there any amusing false cognates between these languages? 00:28:34 kmc: You're just not watching the right videos. 00:28:49 Sometimes it seems they bother with och/og but not when it comes to long words. 00:29:39 kmc: no:pule = en:fuck, sv:pula = en: er, does anyone know a word for that... 00:29:53 "Dit hår er skadet og slidt/slitt/slitet", starts this "DK/N/S" shampoo bottle. 00:30:20 fizzie: "Dit" is wrong for norwegian :P 00:30:31 "og" is wrong for swedish. 00:30:51 "er" also wrong for swedish, i think 00:30:55 "Det har mistet/förlorat sit naturlige cement, som giver/ger håret styrke og smidighed." 00:31:04 Yes, it's all kind of lazy. 00:31:40 "Hårets overflade/yta bliver glat/slät og glansfuld." 00:32:29 they should print one language in red and the other in blue and then everyone in school gets a bit of cellophane of the appropriate color 00:32:41 "Fordel shampooen i fugtigt hår, massér/massera, og skyl ud/skölj ur." 00:32:52 kmc: also NO and DK are closer to read than SE, usually. while DK is far away in pronunciation... 00:33:28 kmc: reading NO is probably easier tahn reading three languages intertwined 00:33:37 than* 00:33:43 interesting 00:33:48 isn't it symptomatic for similar cultures (neighbours devided by some historical reasons for example) that they often look for its own identity by cultivating these small differences? dunno, but these phenomena are found not only on national but almost every level .. 00:34:20 also isn't norwegian actually two languages 00:34:46 hagb4rd: see: serbian, bosnian and croation, which afaiu are even closer than the scandinavian languages 00:34:54 regions, districts,..yes.. even lovers shit 00:34:55 I think there's two written forms but only one spoken? 00:34:57 yea 00:34:59 * FireFly checks 00:35:05 i see 00:35:18 "Serbo-Croatian is the only European language with active digraphia, using both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets. The Bosnian and Serbian varieties use both alphabets while the Croatian variety uses only the Latin alphabet" 00:35:22 yuppppp 00:35:22 kmc: no one bothers with including nynorsk in these multiple translations :P 00:35:41 Nynorsk is the one that's closer to old norse, right? 00:35:58 slightly closer, perhaps. 00:36:16 http://www.e-allmoney.com/coins/eur/img/1bos2YAcnbra00.gif 00:37:12 2 convertible mark coin 00:38:28 Hei og velkomne til det internasjonale knutepunktet for design og distribusjon av esoteriske programmeringsspråk! For meir informasjon, sjå wikien vår: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For den andre sorten esoterisme, prøv #esoteric på irc.dal.net.) 00:38:58 bosna i hercegovina / босна и херцеговина 00:39:34 (you may now play "spot the difference") 00:40:27 -!- Gregor has set topic: Keskustelu käyttäen Itä-Euroopan kieliä. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:40:31 (mind you there _could_ be errors, nynorsk isn't my main writing form) 00:41:08 Okay, I couldn't tell it from bokmål I think :p 00:41:20 if it were, i would probably use a bit other words for flavor 00:45:32 @ping 00:45:32 pong 00:46:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:14 I think there's two written forms but only one spoken? <-- the spoken situation is far more complicated, as dialects are generally _more_ prestigious than a pronunciation normalized to either writing form. afaict, even the television presenters no longer always normalize. 00:47:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:47:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:47:21 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:47:40 at least not fully. 00:47:49 Oh, that sounds tricky 00:47:59 and there's not really an "official" pronunciation, iirc 00:48:50 the nynorsk movement had this slogan "Speak dialect, write nynorsk" of which the norwegian people took only the first part :P 00:50:03 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:50:27 -!- Guest59403 has joined. 00:50:44 :t IM.mapWithKey 00:50:46 (IM.Key -> a -> b) -> IM.IntMap a -> IM.IntMap b 00:51:37 that's interesting 00:51:43 some languages take that to an extreme 00:51:54 like chinese and arabic 00:52:06 (if chinese even counts as one language) 00:52:29 arabic doesn't count as one language either, i don't think 00:52:55 -!- Guest59403 has quit (Client Quit). 00:53:12 there is "modern standard arabic", which is probably not the local language anywhere? 00:54:15 kmc: in china there was basically mandarin and.. i forgot the second one 00:54:19 my understanding is that in both cases, there is a mutually intelligible sub-language which people can use but is not the default anywhere 00:54:26 in chinese it's only a written language and not spoken 00:54:26 there's cantonese and wu and a few others 00:54:29 and yeah, there's a word for it 00:54:32 "Shoppers at a furniture store in Toronto, Canada, were shocked to find a monkey dressed in a sheepskin jacket on the loose in the car park." 00:54:39 tht pattern, i mean 00:54:59 dunno if you all saw http://idlewords.com/2011/08/why_arabic_is_terrific.htm 00:55:00 oh, 'diglossia' 00:55:09 which also mentions norwegian, gosh. 00:56:04 oh dear, the arabic on that page no longer renders correctly for me :( 00:57:08 looks like double UTF8 encoding :( :( :( 00:57:37 DOUBLE UTF-8 ALL ACROSS THE SKYYYY 00:57:59 whenever you screw up character encodings, god kills a japanese kitten 00:59:05 `locale 00:59:06 LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="fi_FI 00:59:20 welly welly well 01:00:27 must report bug 01:02:05 kmc: Gregor is killing kittens right now then 01:18:24 LC_MESSAGES=fi_FI.UTF-8 is great. “Esiräätälöidään paketteja” 01:18:30 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 01:19:01 Too bad some of the people won’t understand just how horrible that translation of “preconfiguring packages” is. 01:19:20 Finnish translations of UIs tend to be abhorrent. 01:19:30 how can it be horrible when it contains five ä's? 01:19:51 what would you say the meaning of that phrase is in english? 01:20:07 it's almost impossible to unify the layout isn't it? 01:20:52 experienced the same problem while trying to create unified reports for 16 languages 01:20:59 “Pretailoring packages” would be the direct translation, but that loses the badness of the phrase in Finnish again. 01:26:10 codepage 1252 strikes again! 01:26:10 i still wonder how finnish could develop in such a uniqe way.. are they any natural borders to the neighbours? oceans? mountains? trolls? 01:27:03 there must be a simpler explanation 01:27:35 echo مكتبة | iconv -f cp1252 01:27:36 must admit i do not know much about the finnish history 01:28:00 it is kind of related to hungarian and estonian right 01:28:06 hungarian is crazier though 01:28:32 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:28:36 maybe it's just seeing it next to swedish everywhere, but finnish seems to be closer to its neighbors 01:29:06 really? 01:29:20 have to read more on this 01:29:22 in my unscientific opinion yes 01:30:06 swedish is a germanic language, so not entirely alien to me as an english speaker 01:30:16 and the finnish words on signs seemed to be reasonably close to the swedish words much of the time 01:30:30 whereas in hungary it seemed as though somebody has written total gibberish on everything 01:30:52 I think Hungarian and Finnish have split a very long time ago, there’s nothing recognizable in the other to a novice that knows one of them. OTOH, Estonian sounds very similar to Finnish (although you generally can’t understand the words). 01:32:11 yes, studying the history would be a good point to start i guess 01:32:34 * Gregor wipes the blood from his hands. 01:32:41 Now that I'm done killing kittens, let's fix this shit. 01:32:59 `locale 01:33:00 LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="fi_FI.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="fi_FI 01:33:04 Gregor: YO A REASONABLE LOCALE PLZ 01:33:39 elliott: I chose a locale appropriate to the majority of the channel, what's the issue? 01:33:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:34:06 ei issuaa 01:34:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:34:28 `date 01:34:30 ti 11.12.2012 01.34.29 +0000 01:35:00 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:35:32 `date +%c 01:35:33 ti 11. joulukuuta 2012 01.35.33 01:36:55 `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ elliott 01:36:57 ​ＥＬＬＩＯＴＴ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡ 01:38:43 `date 01:38:44 Tue Dec 11 01:38:44 UTC 2012 01:38:48 JUST to make you stop complaining. 01:39:21 Gregor: Um... 01:39:25 Gregor: I'm not going to stop complaining 01:39:35 +about that 01:42:07 Gregor: should I optimise UMLBox 01:42:19 Probably? 01:42:24 "If a user accomplishes a root escalation from within a UMLBox jail, they escalate only to the privileges of the user who ran umlbox, not true root." 01:42:32 I like the idea that this would stop someone who *already has a root escalation exploit* 01:42:39 (OK, you could have setuid programs inside the jail) 01:42:47 Yeah, it depends on how the exploit is done. 01:43:01 If they're different versions of Linux, or depend on being able to modify something they can't on the host, or... 01:43:17 There's lots of reasons why an exploit might not work. 01:43:27 Gregor: How fast is the mudem stuff 01:43:44 Slow but irrelevant, HackEgo isn't using it. 01:43:51 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 01:44:07 oh, it isn't? 01:44:12 No. 01:44:15 why does it exist then 01:44:23 For the luls? 01:44:41 It was a "feature" of plash I felt obligated to replicate. 01:44:46 Never really succeeded though. 01:44:54 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:45:13 I forget what it's even for 01:45:17 oh, X forwarding? 01:45:21 Yeah. 01:45:26 And TCP forwarding if you'd like. 01:45:47 does it work for X 01:45:57 It did last time I tested it *shrugs* 01:47:26 Gregor: hey couldn't you profile this stuff using the oprofile stuff 01:47:32 -!- ion has set topic: Keskustelu käyttäen Itä-Euroopan kieliä. | Kanavan otsikko mainitsee Hitlerin ilman erityistä syytä. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:48:45 Maybe... 01:48:48 -!- nooga has joined. 01:48:57 I know that google perftools just barfs all over the place :) 01:50:45 well oprofile is fancy and kernel-level 01:50:49 I don't know how it works though 01:50:59 what if you reduced the nice to something less than -n10, would that help at all 01:51:02 I guess it would be sort of bad 01:52:03 It's not like I have other shit running at some other nice level. 01:53:45 mm 01:53:50 `echo hi 01:53:50 1355190830.35 01:53:51 1355190831.01 01:53:51 1355190831.19 01:53:51 hi 01:53:57 hg status is almost instantaneous. 01:54:03 umlbox takes almost a second. 01:54:05 Nice "profiling" 01:54:05 So yeah. 01:54:08 ^^ 01:54:26 I think UMLBox is pretty inherently slow 01:54:44 Gregor: What if you did a trick to keep the same UMLBox running as long as hg status says nothing has changed? 01:54:48 should be semantically equivalent 01:55:12 It's a nice theory, but the whole stack is just SO not configured to do that >_> 01:55:25 Doesn't sound that hard 01:55:29 UMLBox forwards stdin, right? 01:55:41 Oh, heh. 01:56:11 'course then there's an issue of "how much of this output is my output" 01:56:12 So you just need to run while read; do timelimit ...; done 01:56:13 or whatever 01:56:31 Gregor: have it forward an extra fd that you just echo "done" to or such 01:56:34 or wait 01:56:35 I don't get the problem 01:56:49 I send a command, it has no output. How do I know when it's done? 01:57:01 I send a command, it has 30MB of output. How do I know when it's done? 01:57:28 Right, you need to echo "done" to another channel... in fact you can just use stderr, assuming UMLBox forwards that separately 01:57:32 (and 2>&1 the commands themselves) 01:57:39 Echoing to another channel is a terrible idea. 01:57:44 Synchronicity problems. 01:58:04 Gregor: OK: buffer the output inside the loop, once all the output is written, write the length of the output to the additional channel. 01:58:18 The reading code sends the stuff to run, reads a length from the side-channel, reads those bytes. 01:58:30 Hmm 01:58:32 Fair 'nuff 01:58:52 Whenever a write happens, you kill the whole thing and run stuff separately 01:58:54 like normal 01:59:37 (Note that this means that if you run two writers and a reader at once, the reader may experience inconsistent state (because the two overwriters overwrite each other)) 01:59:56 (You'd have to make sure the reader's output isn't sent before rerunning stuff, but that's just basic transactionality anyway) 02:00:04 Sounds easier than rearchitecturing anything at least 02:00:09 s/anything/everything/ 02:00:14 It is rearchitecting X-D 02:00:29 Probably less so than whatever you were thinking of :P 02:00:33 It'd be super-mega-fast, anyway 02:00:40 bug reported 02:00:47 what bug 02:01:54 bad character encoding on http://idlewords.com/2011/08/why_arabic_is_terrific.htm 02:02:20 take UTF-8 and interpret each byte as a character in Windows-1252 and then encode to UTF-8 again and that's what you get 02:02:31 I also think that rerunning commands is probably a waste of time more often than not. I could send the original output eagerly, then resend iff it's different. 02:02:47 Err 02:02:48 kmc: How do you fuck up like that? 02:02:57 That waiting for output from rerunning is a waste of time. 02:03:04 That would be completely awful 02:03:04 Lemme put it differently: I should output before even checking. 02:03:23 pikhq: ¡!¡!¡!¡!¡! 02:03:27 How about go for the 90% speed increase you get from not rerunning UMLBox and forget about an abomination like that :P 02:03:34 ^^ 02:03:53 Maybe I'll write it to not rerun UMLBox if I can get HackEgo working here 02:04:10 elliott: At this point it should be near-trivial to get HackEgo running... 02:04:18 I think that is what you said last time too 02:04:31 Walk me through it :P 02:04:48 Build multibot, install socat, edit runner.sh to your needs, ./runner.sh 02:05:39 You forgot at least one step 02:05:41 pikhq: ¡!¡!¡!¡!¡! THERE ARE BACKLOG IN PLOF CHANNEL GO GO GO ¡!¡!¡!¡!¡! 02:06:05 elliott: What's going wrong? 02:06:07 Is it just me or did glogbot's channel list shrink 02:06:18 elliott: did you finish your "script" 02:06:19 elliott: I assume you already have umlbox? 02:06:22 Gregor: I didn't try, just you forgot "Get UMLBox working" for one 02:06:42 X-D 02:07:11 Getting UMLBox working: Check out, extract Linux to a subdir, if your Linux version is different then the one in Makefile then change it or provide it as a make argument, make and make install. 02:07:15 Gregor: yaru nn sìȳa 'te! tèmo, kotae musùkasii no. 02:07:49 Gregor: You should have some script to automate checking out and compiling everything :P 02:07:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:08:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 02:08:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:08:12 pikhq: probably by opening it in an editor which is configured to auto-detect encoding but save as utf-8 02:08:16 and which auto detects wrongly 02:08:17 elliott: HackBot isn't really designed to be rerun ;) 02:08:22 i don't really know 02:08:29 i think of this as something that happens on windows ;P 02:08:29 Gregor: "At this point it should be near-trivial to get HackEgo running..." :P 02:08:36 kmc: Implementing auto-detect like that takes some real doing. 02:08:42 kmc: I've seen that post before with its encoding not messed up. 02:08:44 Oh come on, it has THREE dependencies. 02:08:49 shachaf: yes, me too 02:08:54 And all three of them are listed in its description! 02:08:58 Given that the easy way to detect UTF-8 is to check if it's valid UTF-8. 02:09:02 Gregor: Also you forgot the part where I replicate HackEgo's filesystem to have test scripts. 02:09:06 If it's valid, it is UTF-8. 02:09:06 i think he probably made a minor edit and screwed it up accidentally 02:09:10 or moved to a new blog system or something 02:09:13 I guess. 02:09:17 Also a lot of those things are true of Hebrew. 02:09:23 elliott: Do you need it? 02:09:28 elliott: Even "echo hi" should be sufficient. 02:09:35 shachaf: not surprising 02:09:38 Gregor: No, because I need to test behaviour with writes and stuff and the quote system makes that e-z 02:09:46 arabic alphabet is cooler though 02:09:47 sorry 02:09:54 shachaf: Given that the two languages are in the same language family, makes a lot of sense. 02:09:54 If it's valid, it is UTF-8. // Technically, there is some insanely small possibility that this is false. 02:10:04 pikhq: Sure. 02:10:08 Gregor: Yeah, but that's the proper heuristic. 02:10:49 kmc: Sure, but you might as well write Farsi instead. 02:10:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:10:59 MAYBE I WILL 02:11:07 maybe i'll write english in arabic script 02:11:22 Gregor: And if you somehow find a long string in the wild that's valid UTF-8 *and* not meant to be, I'll buy you a hat or something. :P 02:11:34 There's always https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiao'erjing 02:12:04 Well, if I can write English in kanji and a self-made script, I suppose you can do English in Arabic. 02:12:22 Gregor: I like this irritating fucking "click the repo URL to copy it" thing that DOESN'T LET ME MIDDLE-CLICK-PASTE THE RESULT 02:12:27 everything is terrible 02:12:40 elliott: Dahell? 02:12:50 On https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot/overview 02:13:07 there are some places in western china where you can see latin, arabic, cyrillic, han, and mongolian characters on signs 02:13:11 also some places in new york city 02:13:13 That's... not an auto-copy thing? 02:13:16 It's just a text box? 02:13:25 It is. 02:13:31 Try clicking it (make sure you have JS on I guess) 02:13:37 I have JS on. 02:13:41 Of course I have JS on X-D 02:13:46 Shrug 02:13:50 It is definitely something weird 02:14:00 So's your face *shrugs* 02:15:22 -!- glogbackup has joined. 02:15:48 glogbackup: YOU'RE DRUNK, GO HOME 02:16:04 Gregor: Where do I put multibot 02:16:13 Right in the repo. 02:16:18 Next to runner.sh 02:16:22 `ls /ubda 02:16:23 ls: cannot access /ubda: No such file or directory 02:16:41 Gregor: Do I wipe its multibot_cmds? 02:16:43 kmc: I heard a rumor you were a fan of acid-state. 02:16:45 Or keep them? 02:16:57 elliott: Just take the binary. 02:17:29 I like how there's no Makefile. 02:17:38 P.S. by like I mean hate 02:17:42 Makefiles are for pussies. 02:17:49 gcc -O3 -levent multibot.c -o multibot 02:18:01 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:18:09 lol 02:19:10 Does it really need libevent and yet still uses socat for networking 02:19:23 I can't possibly articulate how much this code disgusts me 02:19:24 libevent... is not a networking library? 02:19:33 I never said it was 02:19:54 It uses socat to avoid all the buildup/teardown bullshit of BSD sockets, so it's just stdin/stdout. Otherwise it's equivalent. 02:20:45 -!- monqy has joined. 02:20:54 Nice, I have a newer kernel than umlbox 02:21:19 Ugh 02:21:23 Does this mean I have to download my own 02:24:39 Gregor: help 02:25:02 Uhh, it has to build a UML kernel, yes... 02:25:08 Well, or if your distro has one, you can use that. 02:25:19 `quote 02:25:21 543) in the past few minutes I tried remembering what my dream last night was, but instead remembered I didn't sleep 02:25:28 `quote 02:25:29 `quote 02:25:29 `quote 02:25:29 `quote 02:25:30 288) elliott, it was an artful robbery! wait, murder 02:25:30 70) My mascot is a tree of broccoli. 02:25:31 85) it can be a good fursuit, but the good thing is that nobody can complain a fox doesn't have the right skin tone 02:25:31 44) oklofok: I'm a tad over-apologetic. I apologize. 02:26:02 44/85/70? 02:26:33 Gregor: Well you said something about tweaking the version numbers 02:26:37 shachaf....etiqute 02:26:57 eti`quote????? 02:27:03 ye 02:27:12 elliott: You don't need to use the version specified by the Makefile, you can use whatever version you please 02:27:16 `quote 02:27:16 `quote 02:27:17 `quote 02:27:17 [A 02:27:17 [A 02:27:18 582) never ever do bacon floats or i will hunt you down and kill you augh my leg 02:27:18 616) Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge 02:27:19 58) if a girl is that cute, i don't care how many penises she has 02:27:21 Hmm. 02:27:23 elliott: But you do have to actually fetch the source, since, y'know, you're building it. 02:27:27 shachaf: can you stop 02:27:29 Is that a mosh bug or what? 02:28:26 Gregor: Well I just meant you said "if your Linux version is different then the one in Makefile then change it or provide it as a make argument 02:28:29 " 02:28:36 so I do need the versions to match? 02:28:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:28:43 if not I'm totally happy with whatever it uses my default 02:29:40 this is confusing!! 02:29:41 elliott: One way or another you have to download a Linux kernel and extract it. 02:29:46 It doesn't do it itself because I'm lazy. 02:29:48 doesn't the makefile do that automatically 02:29:51 I recall that being a thing 02:30:14 Would you like me to make that a thing X_X 02:30:18 totally 02:30:18 but 02:30:25 ok if the versions have to match 02:30:28 what if my kernel is patched 02:30:30 does it need the same patches......... 02:30:39 The version does not have to match anything. 02:30:46 Just use a clean Linux. 02:31:03 ok then 02:31:05 The only version matching there is is that the Makefile has a variable to know what directory to descend into. 02:33:42 what's a mosh bug? 02:34:08 Those [As came from pressing up-arrow-enter quickly. 02:34:42 f[Ancy 02:34:46 oh there's a known interaction with irssi paste detection 02:35:03 if you send irssi a bunch of control codes at once, it assumes they are pasted and sends them to the channel as is 02:35:32 Makes sense. 02:35:41 ohhh. is that why it does that when there's a big internet lag after I press backspace a lot? 02:35:44 I guess that's the reason I can only get tabs into the irssi buffer by pasting. 02:36:00 so it ends up packet-lossing a lot, so it sends all of them at once, and instead of backspacing I get a bunch of control codes 02:36:04 yeah 02:36:07 makes sense. 02:36:10 hm... 02:36:18 I've noticed that when being on horridly lossy networks and not using local-edit mode 02:36:55 local-edit mode? 02:37:17 are you saying there is actually a way to get reasonable local line editing with modern networking stuff 02:37:28 um, putty has a local edit mode 02:37:33 it basicaly just sends a command when you hit enter 02:37:41 hmmm 02:37:46 does it actually do proper line editing 02:37:49 mosh does local line editing 02:37:51 it's not that great and it kinda gets icky when you have a line longer than 80 chars 02:37:54 that's one of the main features over ssh 02:37:56 but it's workable I guess 02:38:03 yeah, I'd guess mosh is a lot better >_< 02:38:07 but does mosh have a locale edit mode 02:38:07 especially at interacting with irssi and things 02:38:24 mosh does get feedback from the server 02:38:41 that is, it can distinguish "nothing was echoed within 50 ms" from "your network connection dropped for 50 ms" 02:38:48 kmc: well mosh's local line editing is kind of bad 02:38:50 a packet is sent for the former 02:38:52 as in I wouldn't want to use it exclusively 02:39:10 kmc: You know the thing where mosh jumps from "last contact: 13 seconds" to "last response: 50 seconds" or something like that? 02:39:14 no 02:39:14 Or maybe the other way around. 02:39:14 Gregor: oh come on, Linux doesn't compile 02:39:20 Uhh 02:39:32 I guess quassel might work even better at this just for irc 02:39:48 i guess from Fiora's description of PuTTY's thing, it probably does not work in, say, vim 02:40:11 where you want line editing and then you hit Esc and now you want immediate feedback of your keystrokes 02:40:37 I think it basically just doesn't send your chars until you hit enter, then it sends them all. but maybe it works with things other than enter too 02:40:46 yeah 02:40:54 mosh always sends them right away, but predicts a local echo in some situations 02:41:02 and also predicts the effects of left-arrow and right arrow and backspace 02:41:10 I really don't know much about it 02:41:31 kmc: mosh should predict ctrl+ too 02:41:32 and tab 02:41:36 and ctrl+w 02:41:37 thanks 02:41:50 ctrl+? 02:41:53 What does that even do? 02:42:15 move by word in irssi 02:42:17 apparently 02:42:24 Oh. 02:42:27 kmc: oh and ^K and ^U too 02:42:32 don't know what tab would do other than complete nicks >_< 02:42:35 M-f and M-b, elliott. 02:42:45 people have asked for ^U 02:42:49 kmc: Tab does lots of other things! 02:42:50 B^U 02:42:57 ... oh cool! I didn't know about ctrl-w 02:43:00 that's useful 02:43:12 Complete channels, complete arguments to commands... 02:43:16 I keep using Ctrl+W in non-terminal programs and it closes my windows. 02:43:23 elliott: ditto 02:43:27 kmc: tab should complete nicks, yes. 02:43:28 Everyone does that. 02:43:49 wow, ctrl-w closes tabs in chrome too 02:44:00 Why is the topic in Finnish? 02:44:36 Fiora: did you seriously not know that 02:44:43 how have you been closing tabs..... 02:44:47 by clicking the x 02:44:49 um 02:44:52 I'm not very good with keyboard shortcuts 02:45:00 -!- shachaf has set topic: hi | http://соdu.оrg/lоgs/_еsоtеriс/. 02:45:02 another tip: middle-clicking anywhere on a tab closes it too 02:45:14 anywhere in the window, or on the tab itself? 02:45:17 on the tab itself 02:45:20 Try it out! 02:45:21 ah, yeah, I know that one 02:45:32 third tip: middle-clicking links opens them in a new tab??? :P 02:45:33 Also you can find out keyboard shortcuts in Chrome by clicking. 02:45:38 I know that one XDD 02:45:49 another tip: middle-clicking elliott turns it into a shachaf 02:45:51 I right click links to open them in a new tab. 02:46:01 "helpful chrome tip click links to open them" 02:46:10 Double right click opens a link in a new tab!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 02:46:33 I open links to a new tab by middle-clicking if i’m using the mouse. 02:46:43 kmc: Remember the time when middle clicking on a page in Firefox/Mozilla would go to the URL in PRIMARY? 02:46:50 I do. 02:46:51 I don't have a middle button! 02:47:01 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:47:05 I have a left button and a right button and sometimes I press them together. 02:47:07 please stop violating freenode guidelines by messing up the log url thx 02:47:09 random annoying thing: URLs that use javascript to open a new window, so when I middle-click them, it opens an empty tab 02:47:13 shachaf: A.k.a. the middle button 02:47:28 ion: Except a crumb or something got into my left button so now it's awkward to press. 02:47:30 Fiora: sometimes those even open said link in the tab you middle-clicked from 02:48:09 "If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact." 02:48:24 shachaf: yes! 02:48:47 Gregor: help me already 02:48:50 my gcc can't compile the kernel 02:48:58 shachaf: when that happens you need to just pound that key repeatedly until the crumb turns into dust 02:48:59 elliott: What's going on? 02:49:02 lifehacker pro tip ^^^^ 02:49:05 elliott: What distro are you distriing? 02:49:12 arch 02:49:18 CC arch/um/os-Linux/signal.o 02:49:18 arch/um/os-Linux/signal.c:18:8: error: conflicting types for ‘sig_info’ 02:49:18 In file included from arch/um/os-Linux/signal.c:12:0: 02:49:18 /home/elliott/src/hackego/umlbox/linux-3.6.10/arch/um/include/shared/as-layout.h:64:15: note: previous declaration of ‘sig_info’ was here 02:49:19 Does it have a UML package? 02:49:21 arch/um/os-Linux/signal.c:19:2: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type [enabled by default] 02:49:22 kmc: I think it's sticky or something. 02:49:24 [crap repetition] 02:49:28 kmc: It only happens occasionally now. 02:49:34 What version of Linux? 02:49:34 It might have something to do with temperature, I don't know. 02:49:40 Gregor: lemme check, google turns up https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/23/731 though 02:49:41 I'm more concerned with my lack of → and End keys! 02:49:46 fiora: Browsers suck at that. All clicks should run the click event, the default one or not, and any resulting page loads should happen in the present tab or a new one based on which button was used originally. 02:49:52 Gregor: happens with building both 3.6.6 and 3.6.10 02:50:01 there's 02:50:02 community/uml_utilities 20070815-5 User Mode Linux Utilities 02:50:03 in the repos 02:50:07 but that's it as far as "uml" goes 02:50:13 Well then you're fucked 8-D 02:50:16 oh, ion. 02:50:18 oion. 02:50:25 ochaf 02:50:36 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.uml.devel/13702 too 02:50:46 Gregor: you said this would be trivial :( 02:50:55 elliott: It's supposed to be! 02:50:56 -!- oerjan has set topic: /ciretose_/sgol/gro.udoc//:ptth. 02:50:59 But building UML ain't my job. 02:51:04 ion: is that something that's defined by the html specs and stuff so the browser has no choice? 02:51:13 oerjan: don't/ 02:51:18 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:51:20 fiora: no 02:51:23 ah 02:51:43 -!- Gregor has set topic: I ate too much, I'm feeling all *urp* ciretose | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:51:54 Gregor: There's a linux-usermode AUR package apparently, maybe that works 02:52:19 doesn't look like it 02:52:28 Gregor: You should give me an SSH account on codu or something :P 02:52:33 i just noticed the guidelines said "reflect that fact" 02:52:36 Dahell 02:52:48 mosh should be renamed to sssh 02:52:51 super secure shell 02:52:55 that would cast aside all doubts right 02:53:06 /ɔᴉɹǝʇosǝ‾/sᵷol/ᵷɹo˙npoɔ//:dʇʇɥ 02:53:37 Gregor: Are you suggesting I am not the most trustworthy person ever 02:53:39 kmc: “Enterprise SSH” 02:53:42 -!- shachaf has set topic: this channel is logged. don't say anything incriminating.. 02:53:50 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:53:59 -!- kmc has set topic: y'all tryin' to criminate me! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 02:54:08 I am suggesting that it is really, truly not that difficult to get hackbot working. 02:54:19 Gregor: Well, I can't install UML. 02:54:22 So it's literally impossible. 02:55:05 Maybe 3.7-rc8 will work 02:58:36 shachaf: http://static.flickr.com/79/221038665_de70857eb3.jpg 02:59:18 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 03:00:28 when did gregor start saying dahell all the time 03:00:33 what a weirdo 03:00:40 `welcome WeThePeople 03:00:42 WeThePeople: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:00:44 kmc: http://www.coolstuffexpress.com/store/i/is.aspx?path=/Shared/IMAGES/DCI/pizza_tasty_key_topper.jpg&lr=t&bw=600&w=600&bh=600&h=600 03:01:06 quintopia: Well, Gregor is awesomelord 03:01:09 i hate gregorian 03:01:34 its false 03:01:39 I'm parsing that as "I hate in a Gregorian fashion". 03:02:10 Which doesn't help to me then interpret the sentence, but it is funny. 03:02:24 gregorian calender 03:02:30 lol 03:02:30 What's false about it? 03:02:39 everything 03:02:54 its based on catholicism 03:03:20 WeThePeople: i think you are in the wrong channel 03:03:31 I fail to see how it is *based on* Catholicism, nor how that would make it inherently false. 03:03:35 Also that. 03:03:48 no im not 03:03:59 kmc: Oh, this was an actual thing? 03:04:01 WeThePeople: are you sure you read the welcome message 03:04:04 however "gregor is weird or gregorian calendar is true" is definitely true 03:04:18 shachaf: yeha it's the iOpener keyboard 03:04:43 yes 03:04:57 programming 03:04:58 (indeed, it's actually a slight modification of the Julian calendar, which was itself a modification of the traditional Roman calendar. Its origins waaay predate Catholicism, and indeed predates the claimed birth of Jesus.) 03:05:06 yee-ha! 03:05:08 google maps shows a 1.3km wide shaded stripe stretching from monterey bay down to the salton sea 03:05:16 I don't know anything about the i-opener. 03:05:19 Well, I know a bit now. 03:05:53 WeThePeople: The only difference between the Gregorian calendar and the Julian is the leap year rule. And the Julian calendar predates Christianity. So... 03:06:06 interesting 03:06:42 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:07:24 obviously google is planning to dig a huge and pointless canal 03:07:24 good to know WeThePeople made sure they were as uninformed as possible about the gregorian calendar before starting to hate it 03:07:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:36 lol 03:10:00 @quote gwern 03:10:00 gwern says: there are no beginnings or ends to the circular list; but a cons cell thunked in Amador... 03:10:25 gwern just pinged out on me 03:11:09 i should warn the mayor of san bernardino 03:11:33 isnt that where mcdonalds was born 03:11:43 sort -R ~ shuf? 03:12:28 apparentlyp 03:12:44 kmc is turning into common lisp 03:13:00 maybe i'm turning into yp 03:14:14 Gregor: seriously how is it meant to be easy to get hackbot working if I cannot get uml working 03:14:41 elliott: Just don't use a sandbox. 03:15:18 shachaf: that will help a ton considering I am trying to speed up the umlbox part 03:18:52 maybe it is the san andreas fault 03:20:39 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Changing host). 03:20:39 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 03:22:22 san andreas / the san andreas fault line 03:30:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:30:45 Gregor: heeelp 03:31:06 elliott: Dude, building UML is fucking MAKE. 03:31:15 If it doesn't build for you, something about your setup is terrible. 03:31:18 And you should feel bad. 03:31:37 Gregor: did you completely ignore the part where I linked you to a thread where other people have had this problem and it's something that got fixed in the kernel itself or something 03:32:08 Dude, if it was fixed in the kernel, THEN USE THE RIGHT VERSION OF THE FUCKING KERNEL 03:32:13 It works for me! 03:32:38 Gregor: did you miss the part where I used the kernel version you use, the latest stable kernel, and the latest rc 03:32:43 Yes! 03:32:46 Yes I did, fuckface! 03:33:17 Wait, you mean the kernel I boot to, or the kernel I'm using in UMLBox? 03:33:26 The kernel I'm using in UMLBox is the one in the Makefile. 03:33:36 The kernel I boot to is 3.1 (unupdated wifi driver >: ( ) 03:33:56 But that's only on this system... I've used quite newer versions. And hell, the kernel you're booting doesn't affect building software anyway. 03:34:21 I mean in the UML kernel 03:34:29 Anyway I guess I could try git linux? That will take five years to download though. 03:34:45 elliott: The Makefile in umlbox specifies the last version I explicitly tested against. 03:35:16 Which appears to be 3.6.6. 03:35:22 -!- glogbackup has joined. 03:35:24 yes 03:35:25 I tried that 03:35:26 and 3.6.10 03:35:29 and 3.blah-rc-blah 03:35:34 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1351400 apparently this is the patch that fixes it or something 03:35:42 Then PATCH. 03:35:51 I'm not going to add something to umlbox when it WORKS — FOR — ME. 03:36:18 well apparently this patch is actually in the rc I tried... 03:36:26 (when did I tell you to add anything to umlbox??) 03:36:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:37:10 I have /no idea/ what you're telling me to do. 03:37:16 It builds for me, and I've never had any problem. 03:37:20 So how am I supposed to help you. 03:38:03 idk telepathy? 03:38:23 oh apparently that is the commit that broke things 03:38:55 You could try whatever absurdly ancient version HackEgo is still on. 03:38:57 `cat /proc/version 03:38:58 Linux version 3.0.8-umlbox (root@codu.org) (gcc version 4.4.5 (Debian 4.4.5-8) ) #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 03:39:31 -!- evitable has joined. 03:39:35 maybe i will find the linux version released before 31 august 03:40:01 linux was invented in september 03:41:06 3.0.42 it is 03:41:21 Please tell me why it builds just fine for me X-D 03:45:26 Gregor: what gcc version, and what kernel are you compiling 03:45:51 Well, on HackEgo: 03:45:53 `gcc --version 03:45:54 gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 03:46:13 Locally, 4.7.2, evidently, but that's probably not the version I had when I most recently compiled umlbox. 03:47:11 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:47:56 how about you try building umlbox now :P 03:49:06 wooooo, 3.0.42 fails in another manner 03:49:11 CC arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.o 03:49:11 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c: In function ‘check_coredump_limit’: 03:49:11 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:340:16: error: storage size of ‘lim’ isn’t known 03:49:14 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:341:2: error: implicit declaration of function ‘getrlimit’ [-Werror=implicit-function-declaration] 03:49:17 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:341:22: error: ‘RLIMIT_CORE’ undeclared (first use in this function) 03:49:20 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:341:22: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in 03:49:23 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:349:22: error: ‘RLIM_INFINITY’ undeclared (first use in this function) 03:49:26 arch/um/os-Linux/start_up.c:340:16: warning: unused variable ‘lim’ [-Wunused-variable] 03:49:38 I wonder what that even means 03:51:27 Fine, I'll build umlbox now. 03:51:48 I'll bet it just works. 03:53:04 It'll take a while 'cuz I'm on a slow-arse laptop ;) 03:53:18 Gregor: 1.33 ghz 03:53:19 beat that 03:53:37 800MHz 03:53:50 (Except when it actually uses it. Then it goes up a little bit.) 03:53:59 My speed scaling is broken, it's stuck at 800MHz. 03:54:03 (Kidding ;) ) 03:56:54 okay i patched the file that didn't build and added an #include 03:56:57 this feels VERY RICKETY 03:57:52 OH LOOK 03:57:53 IT BUILT FINE 03:58:30 great 03:58:34 so now you can give me an ssh account 03:58:38 and I can use your built umlbox! 03:59:02 Seriously. SERIOUSLY. How are you having trouble building UML. 03:59:03 SERIOUSLYYYY 03:59:32 i have gcc 4.7.2 btw 03:59:52 Maybe he uses musl. 04:00:10 Nope 04:00:10 what's a pirate's favorite posix system call 04:00:12 (has anyone gotten UML and musl to work yet?) 04:00:24 setarrrrrrrrrlimit(2) 04:06:20 i see you are all rendered speechless by my shining wit 04:08:10 Gregor: okay so i got this old kernel compiled by patching it 04:08:17 @yarrrr limit 04:08:18 Prepare to be boarded! 04:08:21 lul 04:08:28 elliott: OK NEXT STEP INSTALL DAT SHIT 04:08:31 Gregor: do I just run runner.sh 04:08:32 what do pirates use to create static libraries? 04:08:34 no I'm just going to set PATH 04:08:34 arrrrrrrrrrr 04:09:05 elliott: So long as you have multibot next to runner and socat and umlbox in $PATH, yeah, just run runner.sh. ... after configuring it to have a sensible name and all that jazz. 04:13:42 -!- Gregor has set topic: DO NOT FUCKING CURSE IN THIS GOD DAMNED CHANNEL, CUNT | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:14:21 abort: no username supplied (see "hg help config") 04:14:27 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:14:32 why do i need a username..... 04:14:35 Hahaha 04:14:46 Mercurial needs a username to commit X-D 04:14:50 I should probably build it in... 04:14:56 -!- shachaf has set topic: ☭ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 04:15:04 (Instead of just using the .hgrc) 04:15:17 I remember git yells at me if I forget to specify it 04:15:20 imo do that now 04:15:24 so I can not set things up 04:15:44 Just add "-u", "HackBot" after "hg", "commit", "-R", wutever 04:16:38 (I'll add that to the repo too) 04:16:55 -!- GregorSucks has joined. 04:17:00 `test 04:17:01 No output. 04:17:07 Traceback (most recent call last): 04:17:08 File "PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd", line 129, in 04:17:08 transact(command, 'lib/sandbox', command) 04:17:08 File "PRIVMSG/tr_60.cmd", line 73, in transact 04:17:08 for sline in so.split("\n"): 04:17:10 TypeError: Type str doesn't support the buffer API 04:17:12 Gregor: it's trying to run it as python3 04:17:17 X-D 04:17:28 -!- GregorSucks has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:17:33 don't listen to that nasty bot 04:17:40 Gregor = the best 04:18:10 -!- GregorSucks has joined. 04:18:15 `test 04:18:16 No output. 04:18:17 nice: /usr/bin/umlbox: No such file or directory 04:18:24 does it really hardcode the fuckin path 04:18:26 nice 04:18:26 Why is lambdabot defending me. 04:18:36 Hahaha 04:18:46 Gregor: because shachaf 04:18:51 what! 04:18:54 -!- GregorSucks has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:19:03 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:19:26 kmc: Are you going to be near SF this week? 04:19:53 Dude, my shitty dead-man's switch server is going crazy. 04:19:55 -!- GregorSucks has joined. 04:20:00 `test 04:20:01 No output. 04:20:01 -!- GregorSucks has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:20:07 $ PATH=../umlbox:$PATH ./runner.sh 04:20:07 [1]+ Killed PATH=../umlbox:$PATH ./runner.sh 04:20:08 Terminated 04:20:13 SO EASY GREGOR SAID 04:20:22 shachaf: no, why? 04:20:47 "just wondering" 04:20:53 Ha-HA I remember having that problem it's FUN 04:21:39 See if lib/sandbox has any weird paths in it. 04:21:50 If uml dies, it seems to have a habit of taking down FUCKING EVERYTHING with it. 04:22:45 it has '/home/elliott/src/hackego/umlbox/umlbox' 04:22:46 does that count 04:22:56 actually 04:22:58 does that work? 04:23:01 can umlbox find the kernel 04:23:15 Yes 04:23:48 wait 04:23:53 do i have to make an actual /hackenv directory 04:23:54 on my actual fs 04:25:09 No 04:25:14 That's artificial. 04:25:34 See if you can run lib/sandbox directly. HACKENV=multibot_cmds/env multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox echo hi 04:25:49 $ HACKENV=multibot_cmds/env multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox echo hi 04:25:49 Terminated 04:25:49 sigh 04:26:33 Err wait, I forgot, you need to be in multibot_cmds X-D 04:26:40 cd multibot_cmds; HACKENV=env ./lib/sandbox echo hi 04:26:57 $ HACKENV=env ./lib/sandbox echo hi 04:26:57 Terminated 04:27:24 Yeah, that's a problem X-D 04:27:31 umlbox -B echo hi ? 04:28:28 Terminated 04:28:32 maybe my uml linux is broken 04:28:56 Try umlbox -B -v echo hi, see if the kernel gives any hints as to where it's failing. 04:29:54 No filesystem could mount root, tried: 04:29:54 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(98,0) 04:30:41 Dahell? How did you build the kernel? 04:31:16 make 04:31:29 Plus adding a include to one UML file that didn't have it. 04:31:31 For some reason. 04:31:48 As in, make in the umlbox root? 04:31:51 So it used the umlbox config? 04:32:24 Yes. 04:32:45 Dahell. 04:33:07 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 04:33:34 It's 3.0.42 04:33:42 `cat /proc/version 04:33:43 Linux version 3.0.8-umlbox (root@codu.org) (gcc version 4.4.5 (Debian 4.4.5-8) ) #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 04:33:47 3.0.42 should be fine. 04:33:58 well, it isn't :P 04:35:08 Gregor: How about you just send me a compiled umlbox/umlbox-linux 04:35:14 Or even I guess just the latter 04:35:23 Okidoke. 04:35:43 http://codu.org/tmp/umlbox-linux 04:36:14 Your willingness to do this has made me more suspicious of this binary than any other 04:36:48 X-D 04:37:00 No filesystem could mount root, tried: ext3 ext2 ext4 04:37:00 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(98,0) 04:37:03 Gregor: I think I know the problem. 04:37:06 My filesystem is JFS. 04:37:15 It doesn't need to mount your host filesystem. 04:37:23 It just mounts an initrd, then uses hostfs. 04:37:23 Hmmmmm 04:37:27 Then why did it try ext3/ext2/ext4 04:37:48 I have NO clue. Does it barf the umlbox-linux command line? 04:39:38 Kernel command line: initrd=/home/elliott/src/hackego/umlbox/umlbox-initrd.gz ubda=/tmp/24023.conf mem=256M con1=fd:0,fd:3 con2=null con=null,fd:1 root=98:0 04:40:04 we need an esolang called Dahell now. it should vaguely resemble haskell, but get as much as possible slightly wrong in ways that blow up horribly when combined (no, C++ is not close enough.) 04:40:10 I wonder if somehow the way it's configured, I need to actually ASK it to use initrd... 04:40:38 elliott: In umlbox, can you add "root=ram0" to the kernel command line? 04:40:51 I THINK that's how you explicitly ask for it to use initrd as root. 04:40:56 umlbox-initrd.gz exists, right? 04:41:07 Just at the end? 04:41:08 -- yeah, it does 04:41:12 Shouldn't matter. 04:41:25 No filesystem could mount root, tried: ext3 ext2 ext4 04:41:25 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) 04:41:28 Kernel command line: initrd=/home/elliott/src/hackego/umlbox/umlbox-initrd.gz ubda=/tmp/24040.conf mem=256M con1=fd:0,fd:3 con2=null con=null,fd:1 root=ram0 04:41:38 What. The. Fuck. 04:41:58 gunzip -c umlbox-initrd.gz | file - 04:42:56 Maybe you don't have cpio ^^ 04:43:55 $ gunzip -c umlbox-initrd.gz | file - 04:43:56 /dev/stdin: no read permission 04:44:15 I, um, what? 04:44:28 I have no idea. 04:44:42 ... 04:44:44 WHAAAAAAAAAAAT 04:44:59 My whole universe just collapsed in on itself. 04:45:04 It's like I'm using a version of Linux that's subtly different to everyone else's. 04:45:15 It is! 04:45:21 I think you are actually using the Deathstation. 04:45:28 gunzip -c umlbox-initrd.gz > umlbox-initrd ; file umlbox-initrd 04:45:37 If it helps: 04:45:38 umlbox-initrd.gz: gzip compressed data, from Unix, last modified: Tue Dec 11 03:48:01 2012, max compression 04:45:52 $ gunzip -c umlbox-initrd.gz > umlbox-initrd ; file umlbox-initrd 04:45:52 umlbox-initrd: empty 04:45:55 that seems suboptimal 04:45:58 ^^ 04:46:02 Oh good, the header's correct at least. 04:46:03 Do you have cpio? 04:46:03 I don't have a cpio(1) if that matters 04:46:06 Yeah 04:46:08 That matters. 04:46:15 I must say the error reporting could be better. 04:46:28 I just added "|| rm -f umlbox-initrd.gz" to the Makefile X-D 04:46:31 Whaddo I do once I have cpio? make clean && make? 04:46:37 Just rm that file and make. 04:46:48 if you feel insane you could install pax(1) instead, and then hack the Makefile. :P 04:46:52 OK, now umlbox works. 04:47:00 Except it fucks up my terminal. 04:47:08 Yeah, it does that with -v ^^´ 04:47:09 Just reset 04:47:50 -!- GregorSucks has joined. 04:47:52 `test 04:47:53 No output. 04:47:54 No output. 04:47:58 `echo hi 04:47:59 hi 04:47:59 hi 04:48:03 how do i change its prefix 04:48:05 move the tr_? 04:48:15 Yup 8-D 04:48:20 BECAUSE ITS DA BEST 04:48:31 what's a nice prefix 04:48:45 5E is ^ 04:48:57 ... 04:48:59 fungot is a thing 04:49:00 elliott: we just got through database normalization. normalization turns fnord strings into fnord ones. buttons are usually pngs, i think i got it to work for tho 04:49:07 Oh, heh 04:49:29 Um, 23 is #? 04:49:36 f​ungot is fun 04:49:56 > ord '|' 04:49:58 124 04:50:00 -!- GregorSucks has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:50:09 ...??? 04:50:15 What 04:50:18 Y'know you don't have to shut it down to change the prefix. 04:50:21 Actually I guess I need it in hex 04:50:23 Oh, you don't? 04:50:42 The major point of multibot is you never need to take it down, you just add and remove commands willy-nilly. 04:50:57 25 is % 04:50:58 µltibot 04:51:08 % is my old bot's prefix :( 04:51:22 Was it called ellibott? 04:52:00 elliott: Remember when you wrote that script to @admin - me? 04:53:23 Yes. 04:54:14 Gregor: What's &? 04:54:38 26 04:54:59 `quote 04:55:01 757) there was a time when I liked wearing a tie too.. I was a mormon. not claiming one has to be a religious nutcase to wear a tie, of course 04:55:23 :( 04:55:29 ? 04:55:41 -!- GregorSucks has joined. 04:55:43 &echo ic chamber 04:55:44 ic chamber 04:55:47 &ls 04:55:48 No output. 04:55:54 Why is mine slower than Gregor's? 04:56:17 I guess your computer is worse? 04:56:18 &hi 04:56:20 ​/home/elliott/src/hackego/hackbot/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hi: not found 04:56:22 `hi 04:56:24 hi 04:56:29 They seem equally fast. 04:56:32 elliott: ALL THE MORE REASON TO MAKE IT FASTER 04:56:36 http://codu.org/tmp/marigoldsnuffles.gif 04:56:43 Use the nickname of the bot and a colon and space as the prefix, except private messages which should use no prefix at all. 04:56:43 zzo38: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 04:56:47 Gregor: I've forgotten how I was even going to make it faster. 04:56:49 ?messages 04:56:50 shachaf asked 1m 27d 12h 10m 13s ago: Want a message? 04:56:50 AnotherTest said 1m 27d 12h 9m 15s ago: and another one 04:56:50 fizzie said 16h 23m 44s ago: That is, the name lookup is done the way you wanted, with the members being considered defined in the scope in which the union is declared. I have not checked whether C++ 04:56:50 makes it undefined to read an union member that was not the one last written to. 04:56:58 elliott: By making it have a persistent umlbox process. 04:57:04 Good luck with that, by the way X-D 04:57:08 Gregor: Oh right. 04:57:10 Why good luck. :( 04:57:43 My suggestion would be to, much more simply, have it just have a umlbox process waiting in the wings, so to speak. Still one-time use, but already there. 04:58:44 Hmmm 04:58:49 That wouldn't make doing, e.g. 5 `quotes any faster. 04:59:04 Do people really care about the performance of one command? 04:59:17 I guess if HackEgo is being merged. 04:59:50 You could make it pool. 05:00:11 Need five fast `quotes? FIVE UMLBOX PROCESSES. BADA-BING BADA-BOOM 05:01:53 Gregor: That seems like a good idea actually... 05:01:58 Just keep 10 or so UMLBoxes running constantly. 05:02:28 Isn't it fast enough? 05:02:29 `quote 05:02:30 `quote 05:02:30 `quote 05:02:30 `quote 05:02:31 392) elliott: by the way, you're now almost capable of crawling. 05:02:31 54) both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? 05:02:32 673) I'm not biased towards humanity over sentient .txt files. 05:02:32 776) imagine hitting a brick wall really really hard but you don't do anything to it. instead you explode. that's what it's like for people who hit you 05:02:33 `quote 05:02:34 719) the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory olsner: So what's this SDRAM then? fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading 05:02:34 I mean, I don't see any reason not to. 05:02:45 elliott: I don't know any reason not to. 05:03:04 shachaf: That was a really flimsy excuse for spam. 05:03:14 elliott: Better than your usual excuses. 05:03:51 Are you seriously making a conspiracy out of the fact that occasionally some quotes are called up to delete when the channel is quiet which literally nobody but you has a problem with... 05:05:14 `quote 05:05:15 593) oh god oh god what if I become attracted to birds 05:05:25 KMC IS PART OF IT 05:05:34 `quote 05:05:36 637) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. 05:05:42 `quote 05:05:44 434) monqy: last night in my dreams I saw a false photo album of my childhood... looking ghostly 05:05:46 `quote 05:05:48 322) my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup 05:05:49 `quote 05:05:50 10) 11 holes for me :D 05:05:59 `delquote 10 05:06:04 ​*poof* 11 holes for me :D 05:06:31 Gregor: Hmm, I wonder what should start the UMLBoxes, since there's nothing really long-running... 05:06:45 Idonnooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 05:07:06 I guess runner.sh could start them actually 05:07:32 And they'd just maintain FIFOs in multibot_cmds 05:07:49 *nod* 05:08:47 apparently there is a new controversy over whether scotland automatically stays in the EU if it leaves the UK 05:08:52 or whether they have to re-apply 05:09:11 Hmm 05:09:18 Except then it's not clear which FIFO a given process wants to send to 05:10:02 Wait, does UMLBox even forward stdin... 05:10:13 It does if you don't explicitly tell it not to. 05:11:29 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:14:20 Hmmmmmmmm I guess I could make the UMLBoxers just create dummy files to signify when they're running 05:14:23 Gross though 05:14:38 kmc: i've seen the same problem mentioned regarding catalonia. well that and the fact in their case spain would probably be pissed enough to veto it. 05:14:59 interesting 05:15:22 can a single state veto another state joining / remaining in the EU? 05:15:33 at least joining 05:15:33 it sounds like there is not an established procedure for this 05:15:47 for the case of an existing state splitting into two, i mean 05:16:00 elliott: you can walk now and you know a couple of words, by the way. 05:16:07 seems kind of short-sighted but it may have been a third-rail issue when they were putting together the initial treaties 05:16:14 Though as far as I can remember, the only words you know are "tractor", "bye-bye", and "thank you". 05:16:18 indeed. all the splitting states in europe recently did so before any part joined the eu. 05:16:32 tswett: Those are the only words I kno 05:16:33 w 05:17:02 elliott: You could have a single FIFO to indicate when umlboxen are ready, and every time a new process comes into play, it makes a new umlbox in the background that (eventually) reports on the end of that fifo, then pull out the first one on the fifo. 05:17:04 there _is_ a precedent for only part of a state being a member, though (e.g. greenland) 05:17:27 yeah 05:17:59 Gregor: Hmm, as in the FIFO would just be a stream of "umlboxer 1 ready", "umlboxer 7 ready", etc.? 05:18:14 Not sure why you'd need it to dynamically make new UMLBoxes 05:18:31 there are a bunch of weird cases actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_member_state_territories_and_the_European_Union 05:18:40 I was assuming you'd just have a script that does "spawn a UMLBox, wait for a command on my FIFO, give it that command, wait until it dies, go to step 1" 05:18:40 elliott: It creates a new one so that there's the right number on the queue when it consumes one *shrugs* 05:19:12 Hmm, probably I should just write a Python script that maintains all the UMLBox processes itself rather than trying to separate them out at all 05:19:47 elliott: also, you don't seem to be aware that you only say "thank you" when someone else gives you something, not when you give someone else something. 05:19:53 Oh right, you also know the word "poop". 05:20:03 this is just sounding more and more like me 05:20:12 And you say it whenever anyone trips over one of those springy doorstops. 05:20:35 tswett: maybe elliott is a buddhist, i hear they do that reverse thanking thing with monks 05:20:41 kmc: You're running unstable now? 05:20:45 yes 05:20:46 I thought you were running testing. 05:20:47 ish 05:21:05 usually what happens is i set up to run testing, but to have the ability to install packages from unstable 05:21:11 and then my system gradually becomes unstable 05:21:12 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 05:21:12 -!- tswett has joined. 05:21:17 That sounds unsupported. 05:21:28 nah it's fine 05:21:28 ...I guess so is Debian in general. 05:21:30 apt handles it fine 05:21:39 except that things in unstable tend to depend on other things in unstable 05:21:48 so you end up gradually "upgrading" to unstable 05:23:08 my workplace uses gentoo and I've kind of noticed that happen too 05:23:15 where if I want one unstable thing I end up getting every unstable thing 05:23:29 except with lots of portage blocked packages <_<; 05:25:34 Gentoo isn't good at that. 05:28:56 workplace using gentoo, that's interesting 05:29:06 i hear it is good if you need a large number of local changes to packages 05:29:13 that sounds like hell 05:29:54 gentoo does have a way to distribute binary packages right 05:30:34 In my experience Gentoo is good if you like having your package manager incurably broken. 05:30:43 they use ebuilds for a lot of their own programs and keep some specific versions and packages 05:30:47 it's kind of icky though 05:30:53 I think it's partially because a previous sysadmin set it up with gentoo 05:31:04 hehe 05:31:32 I'm mainly just not very good with it though 05:32:34 maybe when I get my new laptop I should install NixOS instead of Debian 05:33:06 I heard NixOS is actually usable! 05:33:21 that's cool 05:33:23 roconnor uses NixOS in hard mode 05:33:26 "Actually usable!" -- shachaf 05:33:30 they can put that on the DVD box set 05:33:34 "hard mode"? 05:33:35 I.e. without /lib 05:33:43 Or /lib64, or whatever it is. 05:33:45 So no /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 05:33:47 buh 05:34:00 where does your ELF interpreter live? 05:34:07 that's hard mode because it breaks most linux binarieS? 05:34:15 Yes. 05:34:17 I don't know. 05:34:23 /nix/store/something? 05:34:40 They have a tool for patching ELF files to refer to it. 05:35:31 good times 05:35:47 and this is better than symlinking? 05:36:12 kmc: you have to patch ELFs anyway 05:36:15 for the actual libraries 05:36:24 You could symlink those too. 05:36:29 not really 05:36:32 it doesn't work like that 05:36:35 * elliott has read the Nix/NixOS papers 05:36:38 Well, you *could*. 05:36:42 But it would cause problems. 05:36:42 they are very very good at getting unix to do something it doesn't want to do at all 05:36:48 shachaf: yes if you don't care about the whole point of nix... 05:36:57 I mean it does the symlink thing to a degree 05:37:04 I think some people do it and it works ish. 05:37:42 aren't most shared libs referred to by filename only and not path? 05:39:03 Maybe I'm wrong about this "hard mode" thing and it's the regular thing. 05:39:17 roconnor said it was a thing he chooses to do, or something like that, I think. 05:39:25 kmc: You should try NixOS and tell me if it's good! 05:39:27 ok 05:39:40 perhaps NixOS will fix my X1 Carbon power management problems 05:40:20 hey, is this edit vandalism, or mistake correction?: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Brainfuck_algorithms&diff=35029&oldid=34951 05:40:26 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:40:29 too tired to really think about it right now 05:41:12 shachaf: did I tell you my laptop shipped finally? 05:41:15 and it will not be free :/ 05:41:29 kmc: Oh no! 05:41:31 You should sue them. 05:42:44 ais523: oh right 05:42:48 ais523: 05:42:49 (diff | hist) . . Talk:Emmental‎; 15:40 . . (-29,247)‎ . . ‎Chris Pressey (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (move Talk:Mascarpone discussion to Talk:Mascarpone) [rollback] 05:42:52 (diff | hist) . . N Talk:Mascarpone‎; 15:39 . . (+29,446)‎ . . ‎Chris Pressey (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (move Talk:Mascarpone discussion to Talk:Mascarpone) 05:42:55 is there a way to keep the histories somehow 05:43:07 05:37:42 aren't most shared libs referred to by filename only and not path? 05:43:16 kmc: with nix you always want everything to refer to an exact version 05:43:23 that's basically the point 05:43:34 stuff directly knows where all its dependencies are and there's no "resolution" 05:43:52 also they do some really wild hacks to get builds repeatable so the hashes are consistent 05:43:59 like with timestamps and stuff 05:44:14 ok 05:44:27 the thing with nixos is that you need the packaging to be really good 05:44:38 because you want to do the configuration of all your software in the actual nix language 05:44:45 and it generates the config files from that 05:44:45 hm right 05:44:48 shit 05:45:05 i mean i think you can just tell it "make a config file with this and expand the paths" 05:45:11 but you don't get as much coolness ;p 05:45:12 *:p 05:46:42 kmc: also I think you are locked-in to upstart as the init system 05:46:47 which is a shame because I don't like upstart 05:47:22 that sucks 05:47:25 all that said their tech is so advanced that it's hard for me to consider all other package managers as anything more than broken 05:47:45 not sure I'd actually use the OS but they really do just get so many problems right 05:47:48 cool 05:48:01 it sounds like if this actually works well, it would eliminate the need for programs like puppet and chef 05:48:23 which basically try to apply a declarative configuration description on top of a conventional distribution 05:48:36 kmc: yeah you can do things like make nix create a livecd of your current system 05:48:40 or rollback to the configuration you used 3 days ago 05:48:46 or start your current configuration in qemu 05:48:51 yeah 05:48:52 they have tools to do this automatically 05:48:54 that's very cool 05:48:55 all declarative 05:50:01 i have a feeling learning this will make me hate using debian and puppet at work 05:50:08 in the way that learning haskell will make one hate using python at work 05:50:31 Do you hate using Python at work? 05:51:11 not really 05:51:15 i hate some aspects of it 05:51:34 but i would hate some aspects of using haskell and ghc as well 05:53:02 right now i am very annoyed that there's no reasonable way to set a timeout on a function call 05:53:19 can't use SIGALRM because we are already forced to use python's shitty threads 05:53:24 can't use python's shitty threads because they are shitty 05:53:28 but we have been through this here before 05:54:19 "I'm a programmer, and my tools hate me... and I hate them. And they hate me for hating them and I hate them for hating me. And we hate each other. And that's because none of us got enough hate in our childhood." 05:54:30 ... 05:56:03 !!! 05:56:19 to be fair I like a lot of things about python as well 05:56:39 python and javascript are two of the better languages that you can reliably get paid to use 05:56:47 shachaf: is this the beginning to your romance novel 05:58:26 he will find his true love, a programming language he doesn't hate 05:58:38 kmc already found that 05:58:39 everyone found that 05:58:40 it's @ 05:59:57 lambdabot: @ is great, isn't it? 05:59:58 Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add 06:00:00 djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune 06:00:02 fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma 06:00:04 karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 06:00:06 oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc 06:00:08 read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc 06:00:10 topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow 06:00:20 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:00:20 Just 'J' 06:00:22 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:00:22 Exception: <> 06:00:24 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:00:24 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 06:00:27 ^^^^^ best command ever 06:00:33 is this what death feels like 06:00:47 either that or sex 06:01:11 @help yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:01:12 V RETURNS! 06:01:15 noted 06:04:03 remember rembember, the fifth of november... 06:06:37 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:06:38 "\"#$%&'()*+,\"" 06:06:52 so do you want to know the story behind @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:07:06 * Fiora is curious 06:07:36 i guess once upon a time, lambdabot evaluated things in an implicit "let v = ..." 06:07:47 but people started to refer to 'v' within those expressions and got crazy results 06:07:53 so 'v' was renamed to 'yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw' 06:08:43 was that just like, a random keyboardsmash 06:08:43 ? 06:08:48 beats me 06:08:49 let's hope: yes 06:09:30 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:09:30 Just 'J' 06:09:43 anyway these commands relive some of the strange results people got 06:10:06 Juan: i think they just mean the cgi, because otherwise, wtf 06:10:09 erm. 06:10:12 @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:10:12 "\"" 06:11:05 hi, Juan 06:12:02 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:12:54 Just 'Juan' 06:13:16 it was intentional, i swear 06:15:59 if ju say so 06:16:56 So can you refer to 'yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw' within those expressions? 06:17:26 > yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw 06:17:28 Not in scope: `yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw' 06:17:29 that was the whole point 06:17:32 :( 06:18:17 zzo38: you were the one dealing with TeX demimicrons, right? 06:18:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:18:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:18:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:18:27 Bike: Yes 06:18:37 http://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/website/dek.pdf this is for you, then 06:22:06 I did write one letter to Knuth, a year ago, I think. I did use TeX, and I use TeX for all of my typesetting stuff actually, but I did not use PDF. I did get someone to deliver it, though (it was addressed correctly, but I knew someone who was going to be near there, so he delivered it to Knuth's office). 06:22:47 I did include the return address too. However, I have not received a reply. Well, it doesn't matter; it is not particularly important. 06:23:43 It is the same address you can find by WHOIS on my domain name, but my name is Aaron Black, and ignore the telephone number and email and so on since none of those are mine; but the postal address will reach me if mail is sent there. 06:25:13 Just so you know, that is one way to contact me. Of course you can use the IRC and wiki talk pages but postal mail can be used too. 06:26:03 And if it is postal mail I am guaranteed to receive it as soon as it arrives (not as soon as it is sent); with the computer of course it is just whenever I check, which might or might not be faster. 06:50:02 Is SourceForge broke? 06:52:56 I hear it's down. 06:54:16 Was your letter a bug report? 06:54:31 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:56:39 shachaf: I do not remember what it was. 06:56:59 I once emailed a bug report and got a reply. 06:56:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:57:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:58:51 Wikipedia also seems broke. 06:59:13 Maybe they upgraded something wrong? 06:59:26 wikipedia works okay here 06:59:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 06:59:56 On my computer it broke. 07:00:38 What is the DocBook command for URL? 07:07:29 I think I figure out 07:08:09 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:14:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:14:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:14:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:14:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:15:33 It's the CS bachelor's thesis presentation day today; one of them peoples has done a thing on FM synthesis of sounds on a GPU. 07:15:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:16:26 fun. 07:18:01 Sadly, that one is in the other session. 07:18:40 Mine just has things like MultipathTCP. 07:22:57 kmc: Should I add a swap pratition? 07:23:01 total used free shared buffers cached 07:23:01 Mem: 3792 3684 107 0 0 146 07:23:01 -/+ buffers/cache: 3538 253 07:23:01 Swap: 0 0 0 07:23:03 *partition 07:23:09 My computer is kind of laggy. All the time. 07:35:35 You should use less memory. 07:35:50 Start by dropping X, I think that'll help. 07:36:11 (Also any X clients you might be running.) 07:44:39 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:45:09 -!- GregorSucks has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:45:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:45:55 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 07:46:06 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:46:09 I did play Dungeons&Dragons game. 07:47:57 We were on a spiral staircase. It is dark (I can see in dark, they can't), but I did not want to light up since they would then see us; instead we hold each other's hand. 07:50:21 We found the door with magic runes and eventually managed to get in. 07:51:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:51:25 Do you like this yet? 07:51:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:51:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:51:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:53:08 It sounds very dramatic. 07:57:25 The king is inside. 07:58:05 He is glad his royal wizard is there, and he is glad Isolde is there, but he is not as glad that I am there. 07:58:20 that is beautiful 07:58:27 We have to escape, perhaps through the barred window, but some people outside are going to break the door... 07:58:37 Nevertheless, I have idea: R-KB1!! 08:03:17 What is *your* idea??? 08:03:46 http://thoughtcatalog.com/2012/how-to-hack-chipotle/ 08:07:08 -!- monqy_ has joined. 08:08:28 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 08:08:34 -!- monqy_ has changed nick to monqy. 08:12:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:16:06 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:18:22 -!- evitable has joined. 08:22:24 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:23:55 kmc: that sounds like a bad idea considering that those burritos feel like they're about ready to explode as is XD 08:28:59 -!- nooga has joined. 08:29:09 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:29:10 kmc's idea is to serve the king some chipotle? 08:29:23 It sounds not necessarily helpful. 08:35:00 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:37:45 When I am using 7-Zip to list an executable it mentions two files with the same name. 08:42:18 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 08:45:27 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:48:24 I can extract the .rsrc which seems to be the resource data, however neither 7-Zip nor Resource Editor is capable of loading that file. 08:55:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:59:35 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 09:40:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:42:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:46:16 @tell oerjan okay I fixed the /// thing 09:46:17 Consider it noted. 09:52:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:52:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:04:12 okay so 10:04:20 turns out my esolang wiki deployment strat is totally fucked when they up the major version 10:04:34 does anyone have any suggestions other than cry a lil 10:04:39 i accept "cry a lot" 10:05:22 also 10:05:24 GUYS 10:05:26 I REALLY FUCKING HATE PHP 10:05:28 HOLY SHIT 10:05:29 cry a moderate amount and flail alot 10:05:50 im too tired to flail 10:05:57 i can only manage crushing despair 10:06:04 sleep then flail later 10:06:17 how can I sleep when esolang is outdated 10:06:24 hmmm 10:06:33 i cant answer that question 10:06:37 i amnt sleeping myself 10:06:43 and should have been hours ago 10:07:13 like 10:07:28 I honestly want to write a wiki that recreates MW's functionality and interface 10:07:32 from scratch 10:07:33 just so I don't have to maintain this installation 10:07:43 you have to keep the fucking config and data files in the same directory as the code it's the worst thing ever 10:07:51 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ehird/upgrading 10:07:53 ad-hoccest shit ever 10:07:55 elliott: cry forever 10:08:17 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 10:08:27 elliott: Don't upgrade. 10:08:31 Retro. 10:09:51 retro security holes 10:10:25 Run it in a VM like HackEgo 10:10:30 Run it in HackEgo 10:12:05 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 10:13:18 maybe I should just run esolang on git mediawiki... 10:13:20 what could go wrong 10:13:29 `welcome Snowyowl 10:13:33 Snowyowl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:14:00 ta very much 10:14:29 `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 10:14:32 No output. 10:14:37 `revert 10:14:39 Done. 10:14:41 I don't think you know what that's referencing. 10:14:42 `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 10:14:45 No output. 10:15:07 What is it referencing? 10:15:37 `run stat wisdom/welcome 10:15:38 ​ File: `wisdom/welcome' \ Size: 233 Blocks: 8 IO Block: 1024 regular file \ Device: 10h/16dInode: 767424 Links: 1 \ Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 5000/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2012-12-11 10:14:59.000000000 +0000 \ Modify: 2012-12-11 10:14:58.000000000 +0000 \ Change: 2012-12-11 10:14:58.000000000 10:15:58 If it's a good reference I'll keep it. 10:17:29 `run ls wisdom 10:17:30 ​? \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finnish \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gaspacho \ gazpacho \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ 10:19:04 `banach-tarski 10:19:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: banach-tarski: not found 10:19:14 `cat wisdom/banach-tarski 10:19:15 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 10:21:29 recursion is an anagram of recursion 10:23:09 Snowyowl: Hang on... 10:23:11 JUST A MINUTE 10:23:24 Is your nick "Snowy owl" or "Snow yowl"????? 10:23:28 yes 10:23:31 WHICH ONE 10:23:34 this is important 10:24:16 not sure, how does OR work on strings? 10:24:52 "Snowy owl" or "Snow yowl" == "Snowyyowl" bitwise 10:24:54 i think 10:25:28 damn, I was hoping to make a witty but ambiguous answer there and failed terribly. It's "Snowy owl" 10:25:50 > chr $ ord 'y' .|. ord ' ' 10:25:52 'y' 10:26:14 Stop being a .|. 10:26:42 .&. 10:26:47 ._. 10:27:05 Surely you mean ·_· 10:27:48 No I don't, and stop calling my Shirley. 10:32:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:32:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:38:38 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:48:43 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:52:41 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 11:09:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:09:27 -!- augur has joined. 11:10:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:10:53 -!- augur_ has joined. 11:12:01 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:14:45 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 11:53:42 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:55:21 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:56:20 -!- nooga has joined. 12:15:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:15:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:34:34 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:57:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:06:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:06:52 -!- augur has joined. 13:10:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:13:20 -!- arcatan has quit (Quit: meh). 13:14:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:14:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:33:04 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 13:33:39 elliott: Phantom_Hoover Fiora: Did coppro ever use the chance to beat me? There was an update a significant number of hours ago 13:33:56 10 hours ago I think 13:34:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:37:48 If you keep doing that competitive thing, it's just going to lead to someone having a bot push the RSS in here sooner or later. 13:40:24 I think only coppro is thinking of it competitively. And not really taking it seriously 13:42:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:42:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 13:42:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 13:45:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:51:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 13:57:08 In other news, some SNES games? http://www.ebay.com/itm/300830169972 (It's the BSNES guy.) 14:03:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:04:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:04:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:04:14 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:09:27 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:14:50 -!- boily has joined. 14:22:41 en fait, ça me choue de dire "dédié aux mathématiques et ses applications" : si c'est "les" mathématiques, c ça doit être "leurs" applications 14:23:51 -!- ogrom has joined. 14:27:37 bon matin! 14:29:25 -!- ogrom has left ("Left"). 14:35:40 salut 14:36:17 hey why are there three esolangs that are "a file whose length is the base-2 representation of a Brainfuck program" 14:36:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:37:07 it's not like they're even usable for anything 14:41:55 Maybe you don't have sparse file support and have a lot of disk space to get rid of? 14:45:11 that part makes sense 14:45:26 I just don't see why we need more than one such language 14:46:44 Clearly not a good argument for intelligent design, that's for sure. 14:53:53 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Comment on appelle un mec qui pilote un avion ?). 14:54:19 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 14:55:08 Snowyowl: I believe what we need is a better referencement of brainfuck derivatives 14:55:46 "WARNING: This may have already been thought of by a couple other well-thinking enthusiasts before you." 14:56:41 I think we also have 2 or 3 identical "turing tarpits" with two instructions, "no-op" and "execute", that both make a so-called 'wheel' of brainfuck instructions spin 14:57:16 (for instance ! means > and .! means < and ..! means + etc.) 14:59:16 Braincrash and what else? 15:00:13 Ellipsis, MGIFOS and Unary are all Unary, I suppose. 15:00:29 Bus-catching. -> 15:20:01 Sgeo|web: competitive homestuck-update notifications is just. you're ridiculous XD 15:25:04 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 15:25:12 homestuck updated? 15:26:08 -!- carado has joined. 15:26:08 -!- myndzi has joined. 15:27:18 05:33 < Sgeo|web> elliott: Phantom_Hoover Fiora: Did coppro ever use the chance to beat me? There was an update a significant number of hours ago 15:27:21 05:33 < Sgeo|web> 10 hours ago I think 15:27:28 (that was the context) 15:30:55 -!- carado has quit (*.net *.split). 15:30:55 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 15:32:03 -!- carado has joined. 15:32:03 -!- myndzi has joined. 15:52:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:53:50 -!- iamcal_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:24 Meanwhile in Finland: architecture https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/425714_10151235714854681_575729566_n.jpg 16:09:13 Tchernobyl is in Finland? 16:09:36 no 16:12:58 heh 16:13:00 Hervanta is where Tampere's cheap clone of a "technical university" (Tampere University of Technology) student housing is. 16:13:12 I've bought a tape deck from one of those buildings. 16:15:28 3% of people of Hervanta live in a single building, according to Wikipedia. 16:15:47 (Okay, a single "student housing complex".) 16:21:54 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 16:57:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:58:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:05:41 @messages 17:05:41 elliott said 7h 19m 26s ago: okay I fixed the /// thing 17:05:44 EEK 17:08:40 Are you trying to program in Ook! there? I think you made a mistake. 17:08:58 OK. 17:09:15 Are you trying to say "OKAY"? I think you made a mistake. 17:09:21 no 17:09:31 he was still trying to program in ook 17:09:33 but 17:09:36 again a failure 17:09:40 Oh, I see! 17:10:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:26:07 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:33:40 -!- segorev has joined. 17:38:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:39:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:58:02 TIL that AMZN has a P:E ratio of over 3,000 18:02:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:03:07 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:07:31 poop:excrement? 18:08:01 That's a lot of poop. 18:08:08 Or relatively little excrement, I suppose. 18:11:27 yes 18:12:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:15:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:21:42 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:25:32 -!- Bike has joined. 18:27:37 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 18:31:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 18:35:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:46:57 Do you know what time the winter solstice is this year? I calculated it on my computer 18:48:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice ? 18:48:33 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:48:48 There is Wikipedia article of it, but I can calculate it on my computer, without Wikipedia. 18:49:52 hmm, you just wanted to know whether or not we knew it? 18:49:52 It says at 3:11 AM in my time zone, at December 21. 18:50:03 I didn't know before I looked it up 18:50:07 Julian Day = 2456282.9666 18:50:36 Well, Wikipedia will tell you but why don't you calculate it on your own computer? I think even on the day before, they even said it on the news on television 18:51:50 the main reason I don't calculate it myself is that I'm not interested in knowing when the solstice is 18:52:13 olsner: But it's CRUCIAL INFORMATION. How do you go grocery shopping without knowing that? 18:52:20 O, you don't want to celebrate the solstice either? 18:52:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:53:06 I don't think it is going to affect grocery shopping much, but it does affect the amount of sunlight, and so on 18:53:24 fizzie: grocery shopping? I just use my replicator 18:55:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:55:55 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:57:05 well, christmas is pretty much the winter solstice but with an easier-to-calculate date 18:57:11 that and EVIL COMMERCIALISM 18:57:36 I think when they decided that date it was the winter solstice at approximately that time. 18:58:58 13:37:48 If you keep doing that competitive thing, it's just going to lead to someone having a bot push the RSS in here sooner or later. 18:59:04 fizzie: That would be convenient because it could be ignored. 18:59:29 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:59:31 nice timestamp 18:59:40 what's the "competitive thing"? 18:59:42 I like how I caused oerjan tons of work. 19:02:03 olsner: Competitive Homestuck update announcements. 19:02:23 olsner: I hear it's supposed to be in the next Olympics. 19:06:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:06:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:06:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:12:17 http://twitter.com/SeinfeldToday 19:13:24 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:14:32 «Jerry discovers Newman is secretly an Internet famous fan fiction writer. George gets aroused reading 50 Shades of Gray, questions self.» 19:29:33 -!- coppro has joined. 19:39:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:40:10 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:08:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:21:36 Do you have program to play Impulse Tracker instrument that can be made into Csound plugins? 20:28:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMDp3A7aZeY "Description: i love fizzie the best of them all" 20:28:16 me too. 20:28:33 I didn't really realize I was an aquapet. 20:28:43 this looks pretty much how i imagine fizzie to be irl 20:28:46 :D 20:29:30 "What a strange noise" 20:29:32 "it makes me not want fizzie. its loud and annoying." 20:29:36 poor fizzie 20:29:47 i mean, sure, he's loud and annoying but do you have to say it outright like that 20:30:01 it is not his fault he was born a speech recognition researcher 20:30:29 :D 20:30:52 Speech recognition researches are born, not made. 20:30:56 ps does this mean fizzie searches youtube for himself 20:31:55 We're e-stalking my wife's coworker's new boyfriend, via his IRC nick/anime website profile/okcupid profile; I just thought I'd see what I get with my nick. 20:32:11 why? 20:32:13 It's fortunately a common enough word; no me-related results in the ten first pages. 20:32:27 You know, just to pass the time. 20:32:33 ok 20:34:15 (I think fizzie is planning to murder him.) 20:35:06 The anime-watching website's statistics said he's watched like two-three thousand episodes of the stuff. 20:35:31 "the stuff" 20:35:34 how bad/good is his taste? 20:35:51 Fiora: I don't know, the site doesn't rate that automatically. 20:36:25 * Fiora imagines a site that uses k-means clustering to categorize anime fans 20:36:33 fizzie: what is "the stuff"? 20:36:40 "mecha fan" "yaoi fangirl" "moe otaku" "pedophile" etc 20:36:53 Fiora: I'm sure some of them do clustering. 20:37:11 http://www.tsurupeta.info/content/anison-classification-from-unsupervised-lexical-clustering is what made me think of it 20:37:59 Perhaps I should do what our people always do and make a SOM out of it. Except I don't have a database dump from an animu site. 20:38:09 SOM? 20:38:24 fizzie: copypaste and format trough awk/perl 20:38:25 Self-organizing maps. They're kind of what our department is most famous for. 20:38:30 what do those do? 20:39:32 It's a kind of a dimensionality reduction trick, from one point of view. 20:39:38 Oh, just read the intro of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_map 20:39:56 Quite often you end up with 2D maps with recognizable clusters, anyway. 20:40:10 ooooh 20:40:30 fizzie: you once made one of those of the channel right 20:41:04 fizzie: Did you ever make something that analysis the logs and builds a model that can predict who is most likely to have said a given line on the channel? 20:41:10 that sounds right up your alley and also cool 20:41:15 *analyses 20:41:32 that would certainly be interesting 20:41:50 I did two different very preliminary experimets re stuff like that, but never anything terribly finished. 20:42:02 was it any good? 20:42:03 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:42:18 One with our book author classification course project SOM thing, and another with just a SVM classifier. 20:42:19 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 20:42:48 No; it was using the statistical features, you need a lot of text to get sensible estimates of those. 20:42:48 more like self-organising crap am I right 20:42:57 fizzie: #esoteric is pretty old!! 20:43:02 how does SOM compare to k-means stuff? 20:44:00 elliott: Oh, sure; it works reasonably if you take like a thousand lines from each speaker and use statistics from those as samples. But it's not as nice as the "guess an author for each line independently" trick. 20:44:27 Fiora: If you want to judge his taste, this was his "completed" series list: http://sprunge.us/YPcM 20:44:38 fizzie: well I don't care how you do it, I just want something that takes a line and says it's n% chance to be fizzie, m% chance to be elliott elliott, ... 20:44:56 woooow @_@ 20:44:57 that's a huge list 20:46:12 "elliott elliott" 20:46:13 go me 20:46:13 Fiora: And SOM's not exactly a clustering algorithm per se, it's kind of more like something like other manifold learning algorithms, it finds a low-dimensional (usually 2D) manifold from the input data, minimizing something. 20:46:32 so it kind of finds a simple model for the data? 20:46:44 fizzie: Do they have "uncompleted" series lists too? 20:46:44 Like, uh, naximum variance unfolding or something. 20:46:52 I think fizzie is just making up words. 20:47:19 zzo38: They have "watching", "completed", "dropped" and "plan to watch". (But the other three were shorter.) 20:47:51 6 "watching", 365 "completed", 4 "dropped", 43 "plan to watch". 20:48:04 Fiora: And yes, you could say it finds a simple model for the data. 20:48:07 that list has everything from near-porn seinen shows to shoujo 20:48:33 and shonen like fullmetal alchemist and ... gosh that's a lot of anime 20:48:37 I think I've watched... like... 15 20:49:08 And sorry, I misremembered: the "completed" list is about 5700 episodes. (A hundred days' worth.) 20:50:17 The anime I like to watched included Akagi, Kaiji, Death Note, etc 20:50:36 anime I like to watch includes Another, Mirain 20:50:50 +Nikki, Higurashi and Umineko 20:50:58 *Mirai 20:51:09 figure out what you want 20:51:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:51:42 * Fiora knows only one person who ha a longer list than that, and she's watched about 500 20:52:19 Fiora: Basically a SOM just takes a (usually) 2D grid and then schmoogles it into the data space in such a way that it tries to cover the distribution of the training data well; it's essentially figuring out a vector quantization codebook for the data. Then you can use it e.g. for classification by labeling the grid nodes and doing some nearest-node/nearest-neighbourhood stuff. Or just ... 20:52:25 ... visualize things; the "u-matrix" (average distance between a node and its neighbours) is often plotted, it will show "borders" around clear clusters. 20:55:37 Like uh this I pasted a while ago, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/girls_on_top.png -- that there is a u-matrix. 20:56:06 Why hexes? 20:56:21 It's just traditionally a hex grid. You can do rectangular too. 20:56:26 fizzie: why name like that? 20:56:33 * elliott wonders about the filename. 20:57:09 nortti, elliott: The red dots (female authors) are plotted on top of blue dots (male authors) when there happen to be books from authors of both genders in the same SOM cell. 20:57:15 ok 20:57:17 (There's a boys_on_top.png there too.) 20:58:08 The size of a dot represents the count of books from authors of that gender that are closest to where that particular grid node is in the feature space. 20:58:15 what features is it charting? 20:58:17 mm, i was wondering if it was for more connections between nodes or whatever 20:58:32 So regions of reds are where there are a lot of books by female authors. 20:59:02 but like, what features determine where in the chart the dots go? 20:59:18 And the background color shows the average distance between a node and its neighbours in the feature space, so you can see that the green cluster is separated by a really large gap. 20:59:28 There were some sixty of them. 20:59:32 They're really quite boring. 20:59:53 Word, phrase, sentence lengths, stuff like that. 21:00:22 ahhhh, so the text of the books 21:00:27 what's green? 21:00:37 Neither male nor female. :p 21:00:54 genderqueer I suppose? 21:00:58 There's the human genome project "book" and some US tax database thing. 21:01:06 Oh, so no listed authors or something? 21:01:09 This was on Project Gutenberg data. 21:01:18 No listed author we could determine a gender for. 21:01:23 ah, I see 21:01:29 I have a feature list here somewhere, where did I put it. 21:02:03 http://p.zem.fi/esomap-feats I think they're the same as these. 21:02:33 ooh, so SOM can effectively cluster/organize a gazillion different features? 21:02:36 The "chars per word (N)"s are histogram bins of the chars-per-word histogram; the (mean) and (variance) ones are, well, sample mean and variance. 21:03:09 It would be a rather bad dimensionality reduction tool if it couldn't. (Though I have a feeling people might still sometimes do like a PCA first instead of using raw features, maybe?) 21:03:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:03:40 I mean, like, K-means isn't really good at that is it? 21:04:06 Possibly not. It suffers a bit from the curse of dimensionality. 21:04:30 But they're not strictly speaking exclusive alternatives; you could do K-means on the data as mapped to the SOM space. 21:05:12 The specific word lists (she+her+hers+herself etc.) are things that an early gender-specific-features-of-written-language paper listed as having good class separability. 21:05:25 And the nouns/verbs/adjectives/adverbs features are pure cheating. 21:06:05 I remember seeing those word lists in gender text classifier things online 21:06:10 but gosh were they /bad/ 21:06:21 "feels": highly feminine 21:06:29 it reminds me of when I took AI class and we did sentiment classification 21:06:33 and like, 70% accurate was considered amazingly good 21:06:59 It just assigns a POS tag like that based on whether the word in question has higher occurrancy count in WordNet for senses in that particular category; it doesn't try to do parsing, or even any context-dependency at all. 21:08:29 * elliott can't help but expand POS differently 21:09:34 were you able to get like, a % accuracy on gender detection (i.e. train on half the data set, test on the other half)? 21:09:42 or was that not what this does 21:10:17 Fiora: With 10-fold crossvalidation, our SOM clustering thing on Gutenberg data got average gender classification accuracy of 87%; but that's a misleading result, since you get 86% by guessing all-male since the data set is that biased. Average class accuracy (that is, average of the accuracy for males and for females) was 75%. But it really wasn't tuned for classification all that much. 21:10:32 ah 21:11:00 Can anyone recommend a build-a-robot kit? 21:11:02 pfff, the getting 87% by guessing all male. that reminds me of the "weather forecast" that consists of guessing that tomorrow will be the same as today 21:11:07 and is nearly as accurate as actual wather forecasts 21:11:07 impomatic: what kind of robot? 21:11:18 Fiora: haha 21:11:22 Fiora: wasn't that weather thing done in like arizona or something 21:11:29 I can't imagine the weather changes much in arizona 21:11:36 I'm not sure 21:11:41 it is pretty great though 21:11:48 kmc: Just something as a Christmas gift... preferably requiring soldering etc. 21:11:56 Fiora: Author attribution accuracy for Gutenberg with our 292-author set (so baseline guess-most-likely of 2.7%) was 39%, so it was certainly better than random guessing, which was pretty much what our goals were; I mean, it was just a project-work thing. 21:12:08 http://weather.slimyhorror.com/ this was for cambridge 21:12:11 I think 21:13:09 "I'm making the assumption that predicting today's weather is dead simple, so the BBC couldn't possibly get this wrong." 21:13:12 I think this person must be new to the BBC. 21:13:34 (ok I admit I just wanted to take a jab at the BBC for no reason and have no real basis) 21:14:33 hey fizzie 21:14:36 wanna upgrade the wiki for me 21:15:07 Fiora: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoconfnf.png is a confusion matrix for an #esoteric experiment with a "standard" SVM classifier on those same raw features, and maybe some further tweaks, I think using something like "each sample is a snippet of thousand lines from the particular person". It does well for some, less well for others. 21:15:28 elliott: Not really, no. 21:15:39 fizzie: ok i have an idea 21:15:41 how about reconsider 21:15:52 and upgrade the wiki for me instead?? 21:16:18 interesting, 'ihope' didn't get a very solid recognizing 21:16:26 Noooo. In fact, I think I have a pressing appointment and need to leave and go do important stuff real soon. 21:16:36 that's very cool though, it can tell you /which/ author wrote something if you have some other text from them 21:17:08 fizzie: you're irresponsible :( 21:17:20 what if someone exploits the security bugs in the current version 21:17:25 and deletes all the brainfuck derivatives 21:17:30 Fiora: With those features, though, it can't really tell you anything about who wrote a single comment, you need to collect quite a lot of it. 21:17:45 wait, if it can't tell you anything, then why the cofidence in that confusion matrix? 21:17:53 or am I missing something 21:18:04 http://esolangs.org/wiki/0L um, don't we already have literally this exact same language already 21:18:23 Fiora: Because "each sample is a snippet of thousand lines from the particular person". As in, the features are computed from a thousand lines. 21:18:54 You don't get very reliable "mean word length" features from a single comment, after all. 21:19:05 ahhh, I see 21:19:11 so "with a lot of text, you can find who wrote something" 21:19:26 Right. You could find people who have changed their nicks but not their writing styles. 21:19:38 In fact, I think I did get "automatic" groupings of people who had changed their nicknames in some other experiment. 21:20:20 did you find any secret doppelgangers 21:20:27 one thing I've wondered about these things is how well they'd work with the same person but different areas of writing 21:20:35 like let's say someone wrote both technical programming books and romance novels 21:20:44 would it match the two? or would the styles be so different that it would fail? 21:20:50 totally hypothetically, eh 21:21:03 I wonder if there's any good databases of that kind of thing 21:21:14 ouh, technical programming romance 21:21:24 ... not in the same book XD 21:21:33 I knew that pointer had a thing for that reference 21:22:02 elliott: I think I did find some pairs for which the machine gave a suspiciously high compatibility ratings, but none of them admitted anything. I forget exactly. 21:22:25 the struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own 21:22:30 "w-will you... will you union me?" 21:23:51 Fiora: I would assume choice of topic/genre could affect at least many of my features (word lengths, type/token count, word classes) more than the individual author. 21:23:53 That confusion matrix of #esoteric seem very much incomplete, I am sure there are a lot more people on this channel than just that. 21:24:06 "no, I... I... I'm little-endian!" she cried, forcing herself away (and then you have a few pages explaining endianness, its history, its use in networks...) 21:24:07 no I'm pretty sure that is a comprehensive list of anyone who has ever been in the channel, ever 21:24:10 Also it redirected to http://xn--nxa.zem.fi/~fis/esoconfnf.png what is that for? 21:24:23 has anyone told zzo38 he doesn't exist yet 21:24:31 Bike: you are terrible and wonderful 21:24:48 I second that opinion 21:25:04 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:25:05 Also some people have changed their names so have more than one name for same people, they should be listed all name together, in the same row/column as the others but all included 21:25:26 That's a very... laconic topic 21:25:50 brevity is the soul of a worker, taneb 21:25:57 fizzie: I don't remember where I saw that (was that xkcd? or maybe this very channel?) but I saw a "map" of "words" from the english language, geographically located in a way that reflected their relations to each other in some texts 21:26:04 therefore wit = a worker 21:26:13 zzo38: β.zem.fi is a laptop at home where I keep large and/or miscellaneous things, because the zem.fi server has not much disk space. 21:26:23 (per the famous rule of logic f(x) = f(y) -> x = y) 21:26:23 fizzie: OK 21:26:51 (that is, words that would work in the same context, like "two" and "three", or "pizza" and "burger", would be located very near to each other) 21:27:06 fizzie: is the wiki updated yet 21:27:30 Arc_Koen: "geographically"? 21:27:44 But, you should make up a new one with everyone on, including different name of same people grouped together in the same row/column, and include time as well. 21:28:49 Arc_Koen: There are quite a few ways to make maps like that. Things vaguely like SOM, except many don't actually need feature vectors for the actual points, just pairwise distances you can easily get from relations like that. 21:29:07 Bike: hrm. geometrically? 21:29:13 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 21:29:41 Arc_Koen: i mean, i just thought at first it would be like those maps that show where "pop" vs. "soda" is used 21:30:41 Really need to go now, there's a thing. Back in... four-five hours? -> 21:31:22 -!- asiekierka has joined. 21:32:48 pretty suspicious of fizzie's sudden departure!!! 21:34:08 Bike: oh, right. Well, not quite. In fact, I have no idea what the location meant - there was no axes or explanation whatsoever, it was just clear that words that usually occupy the same function were very very close 21:34:37 Bike: though I think I can find you a map like you describe, wait a minute 21:35:11 here: http://xkcd.com/1138/ 21:36:04 (just mentally substitute "where words are most used" for the legends) 21:36:15 as someone living in a white area i am deeply offended 21:36:48 okies, screwdriver set arrived to try to finally get the bad RAM out of this laptop 21:36:55 first step: oh god it's shrinkwrapped 21:37:34 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 21:37:40 erm, clamshelled 21:38:01 second step, shut off the laptop and hope my stick arms don't fail me 21:39:01 I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. 21:39:07 okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad 21:39:12 please kill me 21:39:14 :( 21:39:52 `addquote I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad please kill me :( 21:39:56 hip-hop oriented therapy sounds amazing tbh 21:39:59 864) I kept telling my therapist I wanted more conventional, non-hip-hop-oriented treatment, but it was no use. my shrinkwrapped. okay i hate myself for making a pun that bad please kill me :( 21:40:16 elliott++ 21:47:51 XD 21:48:08 I think I found the culprit, as memtest is going clean so far... 21:48:20 a cursed 8GB stick of patriot memory 21:48:29 I wonder if that's the worst pun I've ever heard 21:48:43 that is terrible and I love it 21:48:44 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=08102007 21:54:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:57:48 Fiora: did you ever see the paper about how random bitflip errors can be used to escape sandboxing? 21:58:36 https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/papers/memerr.pdf 21:59:02 woooow. 21:59:06 with 70% probability! 21:59:30 oh oh and i forgot about http://hakim.ws/BHUS2011/.../BH_US_11_Dinaburg_Bitsquatting_WP.pdf until just now 21:59:31 smart cards -- I wonder if you could use like a small radiation source? 21:59:33 this is even more hilarious 21:59:38 that's a hell of an intro paragraph there 21:59:45 you register evil domain names which are a single bit flip away from a real popular site 21:59:54 and that link doesn't seem to be working... oh 22:00:32 err whoops 22:00:35 heh, message passing isn't object oriented 22:00:36 i guess that link is a bad copypaste from google 22:00:42 i hate hate hate hate hate how google mangles links 22:01:05 http://www.hakim.ws/BHUS2011/materials/Dinaburg/BH_US_11_Dinaburg_Bitsquatting_WP.pdf 22:01:23 they registered a bunch of these domains and observed a pretty steady flow of traffic to them 22:01:35 nice 22:05:04 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:05:19 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 22:06:51 that first paper is really cool 22:06:56 it's amazing how -easy- the attack is 22:07:00 like, all you have to get is one type violation 22:07:07 and the system is compromised 22:07:11 yep 22:07:20 * Fiora reads the second 22:08:51 «Since we lacked the time or inclination to learn the oil-drilling trade, we decided to use heat.» lazy! 22:10:14 * kmc imagines asking the MIT Research Reactor people to lower an Android phone into their reactor core 22:10:31 -!- Sgeo|web_ has joined. 22:11:20 "guys come on, we just need to verify our type system" 22:11:52 that second paper, jeez. that's really impressive 22:12:58 kmc: to cure its cancer? 22:13:11 Ooh, the VM attack is cool. 22:13:23 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:13:59 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 22:14:31 Opinion: http://esolangs.org/wiki/0L seems pretty useless even by joke language standards 22:14:56 huh, the iPhone 4 seems very... i dunno, 95 just seems a very low max temp 22:15:07 GreyKnight: I was thinking we actually already had the exact same language 22:15:10 if you find it do let me know 22:15:17 (with a different name, of course) 22:15:40 Bike: I think that's max external, not internal 22:15:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:00 like "by our tests, if you use the iphone in a >95 degree environment, internal temps will break thresholds" 22:16:27 what kind of degrees? 22:16:31 95 22:16:43 no I meant, what kind? 22:16:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Nil seems basically the same, they both have the same quine even 22:16:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Huh%3F is related (and also useless) 22:16:58 I'm pretty sure I'm in an acute area, I should be safe 22:17:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:17:18 Arc_Koen: 95 of them! 22:17:24 yes I got that 22:17:27 all you have to do to be in acute area is to be near Bike :3 22:17:29 Fiora: yes, i know 22:17:33 Arc_Koen: fahrenheit 22:17:35 but I meant like, what kind? 22:17:37 this is america 22:17:38 oh, thank you 22:17:38 GreyKnight: aha, nil is it 22:17:40 Arc_Koen: 95!! 22:17:50 so how many real degrees does it make? :-) 22:17:59 Fiora: but i mean that means it's not rated to operate in arizona most of the time! 22:18:13 neither are humans 22:18:24 Arc_Koen: 554.7 °R 22:18:25 weren't there reports of ipads overheating just because of like, being in the sun? 22:18:39 °R? never heard of them 22:18:48 rankine, you fool 22:18:50 also 25.875 °Rø 22:18:59 now you're just making stuff up! 22:19:01 Bike: don't call rankine a fool :( 22:19:10 haven't you ever heated things in 19th century france 22:19:19 well yes 22:19:22 i do that every tuesday 22:19:32 we heated water until it boiled and called it 100° 22:19:48 and cooled it until it froze and called it 0° 22:19:55 oh wait, Rø is 1701 22:20:01 and ø is altgr-l, what 22:20:09 altgr+o for me 22:20:09 guys should i reinstall solidity's os 22:20:16 altgr-l is ł 22:20:17 rwin / o for me 22:20:24 or rwin o / if you wanna be weird 22:20:32 Arc_Koen: rankine is fahrenheit, except that zero is absolute zero. i'll let this sink in 22:20:41 alt-0 for me 22:20:49 shift+altgr / o works too for me 22:20:58 y'all suck 22:21:04 Bike: me too 22:21:30 Bike: hrm. Interesting. I think I'm gonna stay the close-minded nationalist freak I am and stick with celsius, then 22:21:35 hmmm this swedisn debian mirror isn't terribly fast 22:21:36 do you all remember the HTTP-based freenode crapbot flood? 22:21:41 that was pretty entertaining 22:21:48 swedisn 22:21:51 Arc_Koen: you're swedish? 22:22:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:22:11 oh does this mean I can blame Arc_Koen 22:22:16 certainly not 22:22:29 do I like swedish to you? 22:22:34 so what nation are you being closed minded with respect to 22:22:34 somebody set up a web page with a form that would auto-POST to http://irc.freenode.org:6667 22:22:40 it's important to disambiguate here on the internet 22:22:42 I'm a very non-swedish set of pixels 22:22:47 mtve: why... 22:22:52 er. kmc 22:23:06 with form contents that the freenode servers would interpret as logging in, joining a bunch of channels, and spamming them with links to said web page 22:23:21 wow. 22:23:24 Let's just assume he's Finnish, statistically it's likely around here 22:23:32 ok 22:23:40 yeah it was pretty brilliant 22:23:56 i think freenode implemented a countermeasure where if your IRC session starts with the letters "POST" you are disconnected 22:24:04 what an elegant solution 22:24:15 kmc: ah, so of course every time someone clicked on the link... 22:24:22 spam laser 22:24:26 yep 22:24:42 seems like POST is interpreted as QUIT 22:24:48 did you try just now 22:24:50 yes 22:24:52 with netcat 22:24:55 "elite hacking tools" 22:24:56 nice 22:25:03 Real Hackers use socat, elliott 22:25:04 amusingly it still keeps the connection open for a few seconds 22:25:09 to check if you have an ident 22:25:14 kmc: socat is the grossest 22:25:34 no u 22:25:55 I made a point of using the original ~1996 netcat for a while because it was adorable but I got too lazy compiling it myself whenever I reinstalled 22:25:58 i wonder how many protocols are susceptible to an attack like that 22:26:55 yeah the book i'm reading on websec mentioned this with SMTP 22:27:02 instead of IRC 22:28:56 😻 22:29:08 22:29:43 guys i'm upgrading php if it breaks it's not my fault 22:29:57 "if", hah 22:30:46 e⃣s⃣o⃣t⃣e⃣r⃣i⃣c⃣ 22:30:57 hm looks not great on this client 22:31:14 e⃣ s⃣ o⃣ t⃣ e⃣ r⃣ i⃣ c⃣ 22:31:19 better 22:31:40 da fuq 22:31:51 unicode covers everything 22:32:39 nuh uh 22:32:45 there's no unicode penis symbol 22:32:55 much less COMBINING PENIS ABOVE 22:33:14 navigating to http://irc.freenode.org:6667/ in Chromium gives me `net::ERR_UNSAFE_PORT` 22:33:37 wtf, chromium has no business deciding which ports you can http to 22:33:56 yeah 22:34:17 COMBINING PENIS ABOVE: just say n⃠ o⃠ 22:34:18 well websec is entirely composed of ad hoc hacks to improve security by interventions on entirely the wrong layer 22:35:00 on a related note, I think my ID card has technically expired ... time to figure out how to get a new identity and/or id card 22:35:22 I wonder how long it will be before someone actually puts a penis into Unicode 22:36:39 i have ಠ_ಠ, that's enough for me 22:36:58 how about Ꙭ 22:37:38 (U+A66C cyrillic capital letter double monocular o) 22:37:43 kmc: out of curiosity, what was the time lag between making the various internet protocols and getting somebody who knows security on board? i'm guessing like twenty years 22:37:46 or never 22:38:34 well I would guess that the kind of security knowledge and practice that is relevant to the internet just didn't exist before the protocols themselves 22:38:40 Guys I have important news: turns out there are in fact penises in Unicode: 𓂸𓂹𓂺 22:38:47 oh, if you're currently in jail you're not allowed to get a swedish passport - shocking 22:38:48 (egyptian hieroglyphics block) 22:39:12 Bike: it's not really a sequential thing 22:39:30 there's a continuous process of people inventing crazy new features and other people finding security problems with them 22:39:41 U+130B8 is your basic penis, while U+130B9 has some other object in view (?) and U+130BA is peeing I think 22:39:45 how exciting 22:40:28 ah, is that U+130BA PUBLIC URINATION? 22:40:40 i like the information disclosure hole where you can tell what sites a user has visited by making some links and asking their color from javascript 22:40:53 haha, wow 22:41:05 Yeah, that one is brilliant 22:41:05 even once browsers closed that hole, you can trick the user into disclosing it by making a fake CAPTCHA 22:41:18 Also, I just googled "unicode urinate" and got about half a dozen relevant hanzi. 22:41:19 its name is just EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053 22:41:26 then there's the gajillion hacks involving cached dat 22:41:27 *data 22:41:40 I think you can do something like try to fetch something and time it and see if it's cached? 22:41:49 GreyKnight: hahahaha 22:41:53 thank you for telling me about this character 22:42:20 (full hieroglyphs chart: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf ) 22:42:41 sadly there is no COMBINING PENIS ABOVE, what you gonna do 22:42:57 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:43:28 we need some kind of combining character that makes other characters into combining characters 22:43:45 determine a user's fetishes, for marketing purposes, by checking which hieroglyphs they have correct fonts for 22:44:19 actually unicode should specify a way to embed arbitrary instructions for the layout engine 22:44:24 as berkeley packet filter programs 22:44:58 isn't that tex? (we need an anti-mathnerd exploit, stat) 22:45:21 http://code.google.com/p/chromium/source/search?q=kRestrictedPorts 22:45:57 christ, why don't they set up a whitelist instead if they're going to do that 22:46:41 they forgot 80 22:46:44 dangerous port that 22:47:08 everyone knows the only port that still works on the internet is 443/tcp 22:47:54 one day all protocols below HTTP will be treated as mysterious technology left by a long dead alien civilization 22:48:49 might be hard to increase bandwidth if no-one knows how ethernet and ip and all that stuff works so they can make faster routers and switches 22:49:08 kmc: memerr.pdf is fascinating stuff, thanks 22:49:33 70%! 22:51:51 If you are interested in hieroglyphics you should have the fonts for all hieroglyphs anyways. 22:52:22 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:52:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:52:35 I really think Unicode is making far more complicated than it should be, anyways. 22:52:38 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 22:53:03 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:55:49 agree on the first point, would agree on the second if I could think of a better way ;-) 22:56:19 Why should there be fonts for only some of the hieroglyphics? 22:57:11 unicode does have some unnecessary complexity 22:57:37 but it also has a lot of unavoidable complexity thanks to its ambitious goal of representing all text in the world 22:57:56 the difficulty of that task is often lost on english speaking programmers 22:58:04 zzo38: I'm not sure there *are* any such fonts? 22:58:16 whose language is basically the simplest case and is privileged by historical factors 22:58:52 kmc, a quick glance at the pages and pages of CJK stuff should shock some sense into such people ;-) 22:59:56 nah foreigners should just learn english if they want to use the internet 23:00:02 I don't care what language you speak but I think Unicode is doing everything the wrong way anyways. 23:00:06 how dare they cause a little extra work for rich english-speaking people in the first world 23:01:00 i can't find zzo38's viewpoint too offensive though because i can just substitute "HTTP" or "PDF" or "normal IRC clients" and it is still something he would say 23:01:01 Well, you should not be required to learn English well anyways; a little bit ought to be sufficient. 23:01:06 bbl going to buy cheeses 23:02:37 Since if you are writing a document in some other language it should still be allowed, although what encoding you use is whatever you use. Such as you might make up the font, and then print out the document, using such fonts, then it is readable. 23:04:15 It isn't because I don't like other languages; actually, I think English is just as bad. But that is not the point! I mean they shouldn't overcomplicate things. 23:06:16 what if you're not printing? For example, people conversing on IRC using various characters 23:06:47 ∑(1/x) 23:07:25 ∀ fizzie ∃! fungot 23:07:25 GreyKnight: not in 1952. let handles it specially. monadzero was the perfect format for a timestamp. 23:08:18 I think computers should not need variable pitch font except for printing. 23:08:59 zzo38: Well,私為一思that君should be可to使変物s様this. 23:09:25 㡕ኄڄᠤ薅? 23:10:02 how does unicode handle boustrephedon, anyway 23:10:21 -!- segorev has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:03 -!- segorev has joined. 23:11:06 it doesn't :v 23:11:19 horrors! 23:11:21 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: #rudolf .nose { color: red; background: url('very_shiny.jpg'); }). 23:11:30 You can do a manual line break and override the bidi direction 23:12:11 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:15:05 A better way to design a universal character set anyways, would be, instead you can tell many things about it from the bits of the codepoint, and from information in the font files, and from formatting codes in the document, and should not require built-in tables to figure out what everything is, and the program does not need to support all of them anyways. 23:15:30 Also, the way the Unicode decided what character to put in and how it is put in, is also bad, even ignoring the code numbers and other stuff. 23:16:28 UTF-8 is not such the bad encoding for the numbers, although any program that supports it should allow you to turn it off too, to use single-byte encoding. 23:17:52 But there are so many bits about a character 23:18:00 You would end up with ridiculously long numbers 23:18:13 That is just because of Unicode they put too many in. 23:18:34 Also Unicode wasn't designed in one go. You'd have to have lots of reserved codepoints for future expansion of each category 23:18:36 having an initial BOM in the document lets you specifically state that the file is UTF-8 (or any other UTF really), so an application could use that to switch between UTF-8 and bytes automatically 23:18:39 Which would make them even longer 23:19:00 zzo38: Oh, what would you have left out? 23:19:51 kmc: finished reading the paper. Slightly disappointed they didn't drop a computer into a nuclear reactor, but still good fun 23:20:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:20:11 Lumpio-: I would leave out almost all of the character properties Unicode has. 23:20:55 Oh, you means properties 23:20:59 I thought you meant characters themselves 23:24:36 Probably eight categories, meaning three bits, is more than enough. One means control characters. 23:25:21 so now if a program wants to know something about a character that zzo38 omitted it has to have a big table again 23:25:53 `quote 23:25:55 458) Taneb's been hit by melancholy. He didn't have any friends, fortunatel.y 23:25:57 Where's my unique ID? 23:26:05 But why should the program need to know about such things anyways? Some of the stuff needed to know can be stored with the fonts. 23:27:14 But, other things, depend on the program. 23:27:27 won't most of the fonts be keeping duplicate information then? :-/ 23:28:17 Surely properties such as script direction and which codepoint is the uppercase version of this one is more relevant to the charset than a font? 23:28:49 I thought typefaces were only supposed to be information about the graphical display. Stuff like whether a character is logically considered "whitespace" doesn't seem appropriate for a typeface. 23:29:01 shachaf: your duplicate ID is this 96f5e4c4598813b8ac7fdc4e2ce9bd03 23:29:01 er 23:29:01 unique 23:29:01 how did I typo "unique" as "duplicate"? 23:29:01 brain no worky 23:29:02 even case-folding can be an "it's complicated" question in some writing systems 23:30:46 I say we have only one font full-stop, typefaces are for graphics design weenies B-) 23:31:05 I elect Comic Sans. 23:32:09 second 23:32:22 Why not.. webdings? 23:33:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:34:04 Comic Sans all the way 23:34:04 Information such as what is uppercase version, should be stored in commands in the file of whatever the program is working with; TeX is working in this way, so is TeXnicard. 23:34:38 related: http://achewood.com/index.php?date=07052007 23:35:50 Also notice that no matter what you include the character set, some information may be specific to some programs so they may not be complete anyways. For example, TeXnicard also need to know which letters can be used as roman numerals. 23:36:22 (In TeX this is hard-coded; in TeXnicard it can be set up by the user.) 23:50:47 `run allquotes | grep zzo38 | shuf 23:50:49 28) I am not on the moon. \ 333) Finally I found the wand of electric lightning now we can destroy any large object if it needs to be destroyed and is required to use a such a wand for that purpose. \ 815) Because, if it is all wrong, then I should fix it please \ 182) zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Av 23:51:10 `quote 182 23:51:12 182) zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number. It's broken? 23:51:32 182 should be editor to remove "zzo38: ". 23:51:45 no 23:52:46 what for? 23:53:01 Foul! No synonyms! 23:53:09 wat 23:55:58 It might be true that it would be better to remove "zzo38: " from that quotation, but I don't think you should just change everything like that. 23:56:14 zzo38: Have you ever flown an aeroplane? 23:57:01 shachaf: I have been on an aeroplane a few times in the past. 23:57:52 have you piloted one, I think he means 23:58:16 I thought that might be what you meant, but I wasn't sure. 23:58:20 No, I have not piloted one. 2012-12-12: 00:04:27 Somewhere I read about the algorithm used by PHP natsort, but it isn't actually very good, so I have made a new one which is based on that but with many improvements, and now it need a table to keep track of what character means: spaces, punctuation, ignored, uppercase, lowercase, digits, roman numerals, radix point, and a few other things. This table is set up by the user. 00:05:10 @u@ 00:05:52 For example, "Chapter VIII" will be sorted before "Chapter IX" 00:07:10 And with the ordinary sorting it will do it wrong. 00:08:19 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:10:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:12:02 Each entry in the table also keep track of the position in the alphabet or value of digits (it doesn't care about the base they are in; any base is acceptable with no change to the algorithm); for example, if you want to use some character set with accented letters, even though their number differs but they want to be sort otherwise, it can be done. 00:12:23 But, whatever you want it to do you have to fill in the table with what you are using; it won't automatically know about accented letters and so on. 00:13:21 Since such things also depend on the character set (such as CP437, Latin-1, Unicode, etc) and even on the language; in some cases the letter with dot over is considered a different letter in the alphabet. 00:14:15 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: ('')). 00:15:31 USA has formally recognized the Syrian National Coalition 00:16:20 What is that? 00:17:17 hoo boy 00:18:09 i haven't been keeping up with syria in a while, have the rebels held aleppo or w/e 00:18:50 I think byte 254 and 255 should be assigned in UTF-8 (Wikipedia doesn't mention what they are), even if not usable with Unicode. Since, it is possible even though is invalid Unicode they are still meaningful numbers. 00:19:49 -!- monqy has joined. 00:21:32 basically no 00:21:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_Civil_War.svg 00:21:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:21:50 here green = al-Assad government, brown = opposition or Kurdish forces 00:21:55 blue = "Ongoing conflict/unclear situation" 00:22:08 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:22:10 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:22:43 is it really a good idea to lump the kurds and fsa together 00:22:52 probably not 00:23:08 So how does USA fit into this somehow? 00:23:08 but it might be hard for observers to distinguish them 00:23:18 beyond just "the people that the al-Assad forces are shooting at" 00:23:28 If you don't want to lump together, if you know the proper data is it possible for you to correct the map with the correct colors? 00:23:32 zzo38: the US is subtly definitely not funneling in weapons through turkey, etc 00:24:01 oh, and during the election romney wanted to nuke aleppo or whatever. 00:24:06 did he really 00:24:13 i don't remember t hat 00:24:13 nah but you know 00:24:33 america world police etc, there was lots of stuff about obama not being mean enough to assad or whatever 00:25:07 USA should stop damaging things that doesn't belong to them. 00:25:43 i should really get to paying attention again, it was so surreal to watch a guy with a cheap rocket launcher blow up a tank in practically real time 00:25:49 a statement we can all agree on 00:26:13 blue = "Ongoing conflict/unclear situation" // I read this as "Ongoing conflict/nuclear situation" 00:26:18 I was like FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 00:26:23 nah, the thing there is gas 00:32:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:33:29 yeah :( 00:33:42 haven't come into play yet, thankfully 00:35:03 * kmc contemplates whether he wants to debate the tricky line between neo-colonialism and humanitarian intervention with zzo38 00:35:24 i wouldn't want to debate that with anybody, man 00:35:54 kmc: can you think of someone better to debate it with than zzo 00:35:58 yes 00:36:00 itidus 00:36:06 ok agreed but 00:36:07 someone who actually exists 00:36:21 apparently itidus21 is on freenode right now 00:36:27 maybe you should /msg him about it 00:36:30 heh 00:36:38 I thought that square thing said that there were only eight people on #esoteric. 00:37:15 do you see itidus21 in the channel 00:37:42 is there a sign on my house that says DEAD ITIDUS21 STORAGE? 00:38:04 No, but if I don't exist, maybe people who do exist are invisible to me. 00:38:48 kmc: Did you know Jane St. apparently uses floating points for prices? 00:38:56 that is common in finance :( 00:39:22 Apparently they've thought about it carefully and can defend it, or something. 00:39:24 It is? 00:39:26 yes 00:39:35 I would've thought finance would be the place where it'd be uncommon. 00:39:43 should just make currency actually be floating point 00:40:01 Good idea. 00:40:08 the banks that are actually moving your money around use exact arithmetic or should anyway 00:40:12 maybe when you deal with millions of dollars relative error is more the thing 00:40:22 but the hedge funds that are just deciding what to trade can afford to be a bit sloppy 00:40:30 of course they get sloppy in many other ways... 00:40:48 finance scares me 00:41:02 anyway I think the unit price of basically every traded instrument will fit exactly within single precision floating point 00:41:05 certainly double precision 00:41:05 Fine, ants. Finance. 00:41:11 where you get into trouble would be calculations on that 00:41:22 but if you are just trying to quickly get a signal on whether to trade or not 00:41:33 the actual price at which you trade will probably be different anyway 00:41:34 so it seems ok 00:42:47 hmm 00:42:57 it occurs to me that the 'e' in 'bourgeois' is rather bourgeois 00:42:59 I suppose that's true. 00:43:36 shachaf: nelhage pointed out that *most* credit card numbers will fit in a JavaScript number 00:43:40 but a few do not 00:44:13 > 10^16 00:44:15 10000000000000000 00:44:50 > 10^16 - 2^52 00:44:51 5496400372629504 00:45:05 Hmm, these numbers are meaningless and I probably got it off by an order of magnitude anyway. 00:46:26 I remember hearing about bugs involving, like, phone numbers stored as numbers 00:46:29 with area codes that start with 0 00:46:50 loooool *sobs quietly to self* 00:47:13 And of course, due to people serializing august as 08, we can do this: 00:47:14 >> 08 00:47:23 Err, there's no JS bot here! 00:47:25 > 08 00:47:27 8 00:47:40 Yeah, that. But JS. 00:47:44 > 0o08 00:47:46 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 00:47:47 arising from the ambiguity chec... 00:48:12 oerjan: zomg the 0o08 trick is broken! 00:48:16 Let's see if he logreads that. 00:49:26 what's the o supposed to denote there 00:49:55 Perhaps telephone numbers could be stored using BCD it doesn't make sense to store them as binary numbers. 00:51:06 the problem is the leading zeroes, I think 00:51:17 > 2^100000000 00:51:22 mueval: ExitFailure 1 00:51:23 mueval: Prelude.undefined 00:51:26 Therefore the extra six values can be used for terminator and extension and * and # 00:51:55 Phone numbers should be stored as strings 00:52:01 Especially since you can have stuff like + in them 00:52:08 So that if your telephone number is 0123450 then you might have 0123450FFFFFFF 00:52:50 It is not only for telephone numbers, of course. 00:52:52 what if my phone number is 0123450FFFFFFF 00:53:54 If you are using the numbers on most telephones with "DEF" on the number 3 then you will push number 3, for example. 00:54:32 http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2012-12-11-24-day-of-hackage-ekg.html 00:54:38 Pretty nifty. 00:54:38 kmc: you should upgrade the esolang wiki for me, thanks 00:54:43 phone numbers should be stored as XML documents along with a schema certifying that they conform to the relevant national dialing specification 00:54:57 elliott: I'll "upgrade" it for you, if you know what I mean. 00:55:06 shachaf: cool! 00:55:13 Telephones already have a country code though. 00:56:17 The only country code that matters is +1, zzo38. 00:56:55 ^ 00:57:49 It depends whether, in your database, you need to have telephones of other countries, or not. Since depending what you are doing, it might or might not be necessary. 00:58:35 Mosh: You have 2 detached Mosh sessions on this server, with PIDs: 00:58:42 kmc: Am I meant to kill these manually or something? 00:58:45 yes 00:58:49 if they are truly orphaned 00:59:11 they might just correspond to clients that have gone out to lunch but will return 00:59:26 Mmm, lunch. 00:59:43 kmc: this UX upsets me and I blame you personally :( 01:00:20 Uxer experience 01:01:03 elliott: what would you rather it do? 01:01:22 I have no idea. 01:01:32 Something that doesn't involve me typing "kill ". 01:01:32 kmc: What is elliott paying you for? 01:02:15 Middle clicking isn’t typing. 01:02:32 elliott: maybe "mosh -wipe" 01:02:51 you could join #mosh and ask keithw 01:03:09 ion: No, elliott really types "kill ". It's a zsh feature; you wouldn't've heard about it. 01:03:35 kmc: That's a lot of keystrokes when I could just bother you 01:03:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:04:08 monqy: Please tell elliott about etiquit. 01:05:08 ??? 01:11:30 NTFS has transactions? 01:17:55 shachaf: Ah 01:18:15 butt -wipe 01:23:03 kmc: zomg 01:23:14 You know how dpkg gets really slow at "Reading database..." after a while? 01:24:36 Apparently you can dpkg --clear-avail (and then sync-available to rebuild the avail file thing. 01:24:39 And then it's fast. 01:34:41 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:34:48 -!- Gregor has joined. 01:35:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:36:59 -!- FireFly has joined. 01:41:23 woah whaaaaaat 01:41:32 good to know 01:44:26 Is something like (*++x++) supposed to be OK in C? Probably not. 01:45:52 What would it mean, even if it was? 01:45:57 Oh, I see. 01:45:59 ++x++ is certainly not. 01:46:16 fizzie: I think that means (*++x)++ 01:46:25 Maybe it is. 01:46:46 Oh, I guess it indeed does parse that way around. 01:46:58 No, it can't. 01:47:12 Because *x++ is clearly *(x++); cf. the usual *dst++ = *src++ loop. 01:47:25 So *++x++ can't bind (*++x)++. 01:47:47 ++*++x 01:47:57 That should be, yes. 01:49:13 But the order of postfix-expression and unary-expression in the grammar means ++x++ parses as ++(x++) and that's just not right. 01:50:03 Incidentally, some have proposed * should've been a postfix operator too; and also a postfix notation in the declarator syntax. 01:50:46 Because while it's not obvious that int *x[10] is an array of ten pointers (instead of a pointer to an array of ten), it would've been had that been written int x[10]*. 01:51:12 Also you wouldn't need a->b for (*a).b because that would be written just a*.b and that's it. 01:51:31 a* means zero-or-more as, though. 01:52:04 fizzie: "int *x[10]" can also be written "int* x[10]" 01:52:13 Arc_Koen: That's just confusing. 01:52:18 Or you can write "int*x[10]" 01:52:19 in which case it's pretty clear it's an array of pointers to int 01:52:19 I *should* be like that but it's not 01:52:41 Or some people will put both spaces. 01:52:43 Arc_Koen: Then someone goes makes it int* x[10], y[10] and then nobody's happy. 01:52:53 "Sethi [Sethi 81] observed that many of the nested declarations and expressions would become simpler if the indirection operator had been taken as a postfix operator instead of prefix, but by then it was too late to change." (Dennis M. Ritchie, The Development of the C Language.) 01:52:55 hmm 01:53:10 If it was "too late" in 1981, though, it's far too late *now*. 01:53:11 The whole "you can mix pointers and non-pointers in the same declaration" thing is just weird 01:53:15 would that mean x[10] is an array of pointers but y[10] isn't? 01:53:18 For making it less confused I will omit both spaces to make it clearly what I meant. 01:53:20 Arc_Koen: Yes. 01:53:24 ok that's weird 01:53:26 Although if it wasn't like that array notation wouldn't make sense 01:53:36 Or you'd have to do like "int[10] x" 01:53:39 the way I looked at it I thought "int" was a type and "int*" was another type 01:53:46 They are 01:53:50 fizzie: clearly make - dereference 01:53:52 and > struct ref 01:53:52 But you can mix types in a declaration 01:53:55 c syntax is just confusing. 01:53:55 so a->b is a->b 01:54:04 Bike: Most of it is pretty straightforward 01:54:10 "Declaration reflects use" and all that. 01:54:20 "int *x" means *x gives you an int. And all that fluff. 01:54:29 doesn't int x[10] violate declaration mirrors use 01:54:31 since x[10] is not a thing 01:54:36 yes it is ¬u¬ 01:54:43 The type of it is int. 01:54:51 Lumpio-: well it's UB to actually evalutae it 01:54:54 yes "straightforward" is how i'd characterize this conversation 01:54:54 tho (x+10) is ok 01:54:55 *evaluate 01:54:59 Still a thing! 01:55:13 well it's not use if you can't actually use it 01:55:17 You can use it. 01:55:18 And it's as close as you can get to looking like the use and still having the length in it 01:55:18 it should clearly be int array[last_valid_index]; 01:55:19 In a sizeof. 01:55:30 zero-length arrays happily cannot be used, so you don't need to declare them 01:55:43 Is a zero-length array even valid 01:55:52 As it is 01:55:53 Not in standard C. 01:55:56 only one way to know that 01:56:03 Arc_Koen: Read the standard? 01:56:10 it's not standard C but it's a gcc extension I think 01:56:11 ok that makes two ways 01:56:15 GCC has it as an extension, yes. 01:56:16 There's another way? 01:56:16 The reason I won't write "int *x" is because if you write something like "int *x=y" that means you are initializing the value of x not *x so if you write "int*x=y" then it is more clearly. 01:56:19 http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Zero-Length.html 01:56:19 Most implementations allow zero-length arrays at least at the end of structures. 01:56:35 It's just the poor man's flexible array member. 01:56:41 (At least at the end of a structure.) 01:56:42 zzo38: What if you write int (*x)(int) = y; ? 01:56:48 Zero-length arrays should be allowed anywhere in a structure or union. 01:57:02 zzo38: How would that make sense? 01:57:06 I always thought the whole array type thing was a bit... redundant 01:57:15 Unless you can't place anything in those arrays. 01:57:18 pikhq: How does what make sense? 01:57:26 Mid-struct zero length array. 01:57:43 pikhq: It would just stay zero-length. 01:57:45 I mean, it's just a pointer. The only point I can see in using arrays is 1) stack allocation (this could just use a "stack allocate this pointer" syntax) and 2) sizeof() for static data 01:57:50 Well, it should be treated like any other array. 01:57:55 shachaf: That's all I can see making sense. 01:58:13 Of course you would usually only put at the end, but to be consistent would make sense to allow anywhere meaning the same things. 01:58:25 Lumpio-: Then you should be writing in B, perhaps, because in B "int x[10]" in fact does allocate ten ints and make x a pointer to the first. 01:58:32 I think C99 flexible arrays are not sensible. 01:58:36 neat 01:58:38 Lumpio-: You can even x = y to reassign the pointer. 01:58:47 zzo38: struct { int x; int y[0]; int z; } would mean that y and z have the same address. 02:01:26 shachaf: Yes it would. Like I said usually is not useful. However it can still be used in case you want it to have the same address, perhaps when being used with macros. 02:01:56 And in any case you can still read the size of the element of the array, even if there isn't any; this might also be used in a macro to identify types at compile-time. 02:02:36 shachaf: I do have a hard time to justify the syntax for a function that returns a pointer to a function, because the return type's argument list ends up so far. (I mean, int (*f(void))(float); declares f as a no-argument function that returns a pointer to a function returning int, taking float.) 02:03:45 that would be so easy in ocaml 02:03:54 well except you don't really have pointer 02:04:34 that would be so easy in ocaml except it's impossible :P 02:04:53 shachaf: I'm assuming that int y[0] would still take space, actually. :P 02:04:53 haskell has pointers : ) 02:04:59 shachaf: A char's worth of course. 02:05:18 And if you make f return a pointer to a function that takes a float, then returns a pointer to a function that takes a double and returns an int, it's int (*(f(void))(float))(double) and if you add a few more steps it's no longer just doable without some function pointer typedefs. 02:05:37 Uh, that's missing a * in front of f. 02:05:43 (It was already too much.) 02:06:23 cdecl> explain int (*(*f(void))(float))(double); 02:06:23 declare f as function (void) returning pointer to function (float) returning pointer to function (double) returning int 02:06:34 Fortunately there are tools. (Too bad so many cdecl's suck.) 02:07:25 fizzie: That type is hard to read but so is cdecl's output. 02:07:32 I'm not sure cdecl's output is easier. 02:08:21 f :: () -> Ptr ((Float) -> Ptr ((Double) -> Int)) 02:08:27 That's not ideal either. 02:11:15 "(Float)" 02:11:16 If I want a function or something else which has such a type of a function I will just use typedef 02:11:29 Since it makes the syntax less confusing for me. 02:11:30 elliott: ? 02:12:13 zzo38: You and everyone else. 02:12:47 shachaf: your parenthesization 02:13:04 (also (Double)) 02:13:07 monqy: what about my parenthesisation 02:13:12 Those are one-tuples! 02:13:15 :0 02:13:17 What's the problem with one-tuples? 02:13:29 You think my syntax will curry C functions for no reason?! 02:13:39 Is that what you expect, monqy? 02:13:50 one-tuples.......................... 02:14:04 pikhq: Yes, other people, too. 02:15:05 shachaf: Why shouldn't we curry C functions? :P 02:15:16 @quote curry 02:15:16 integerToBreakfast says: = (["Cornflakes", "Strawberry jam toast", "Grapefruit", "Cup of tea and a biscuit, gotta dash", "Bacon, eggs, toast, tomato and mushroom. You deserve it", "Waffles", " 02:15:17 Porridge of some description", "Orange juice and muffins", "Apples, pears, mango and kiwi", "A selection of cold meats with crisp bread", "Headache pills and water", "Leftover pizza", "Leftover 02:15:17 vindaloo curry"] !!) 02:15:32 what!!!!! 02:15:45 I bet everyone wants to @forget that but no one wants to bother to get it into their IRC line. 02:15:48 vindaloooooo 02:17:39 "haskell curry" sounds like a spicy functional programming dish 02:17:59 vindaloo is such bullshit 02:18:06 i mean seriously, curry with potatoes 02:18:10 @quote Phantom___Hoover 02:18:11 No quotes match. 02:18:12 @quote Phantom__Hoover 02:18:13 No quotes match. It can only be attributed to human error. 02:18:13 @quote Phantom_Hoover 02:18:14 potatoes? 02:18:14 No quotes match. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. 02:18:19 a vindaloo is like a type of spicy curry 02:18:23 you can have it with lots of things 02:18:28 It is delicious. 02:18:32 i heard it needs to include potatoes 02:18:37 otherwise it's not real vindaloo 02:18:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindaloo 02:18:42 But, like all Indian curries, it is inferior to the Thai alternatives. 02:18:46 " Traditional vindaloos do not include potatoes" 02:18:54 look i was told this by a guy in the curry society 02:18:59 who do you think you are 02:19:07 um, just reading wikipedia? XD 02:19:27 exactly 02:19:34 who wrote that article 02:19:40 Hmm, I'm going to need to find a good Thai place around here and soon. 02:19:41 probably weren't in the curry society 02:20:19 The curry society is a scam, Phantom___Hoover. 02:20:23 Mmmmmmm, Thai food. It is the best food. 02:20:34 * Fiora likes indian curries :< and japanese 02:20:38 shachaf is just jealous 02:20:38 Hmm, "vindaloo" looks like the devil. 02:20:42 It both tastes well and fnarfs well. 02:20:55 * shachaf has most likely never eaten vinadloo. 02:24:45 Fiora: Indian curries are alright. I've never had a Japanese curry I found to be at all good. But Thai curry... Thai curry is best curry. 02:25:01 Fiora, note that Gregor has no sense of smell 02:25:19 Gregor: I suspect anosmia restricts the flavor experience of Indian and Japanese curries. 02:25:46 >_> 02:25:47 <_< 02:25:49 Phantom___Hoover: wait, really? XD 02:25:50 IIRC they're a bit bigger on aromatic stuff. 02:25:56 Fiora: Yes. 02:25:57 But it would for Thai curry too, wouldn't it? 02:26:10 Gregor: Thai also uses capsaicin to great effect. 02:26:20 (IIRC) 02:26:28 Gregor is anosmic? 02:26:30 Fiora, at some point it was suggested that he say 'fnarf' instead of taste but he continues to confuse us all out of sheer malice. 02:26:33 shachaf: Yes. 02:26:51 According to two people in #esoteric! 02:26:57 huh, interesting 02:27:11 Phantom___Hoover: I never used the word "taste" in this conversation. 02:27:14 I just said "is" 02:27:23 As in, Thai curry IS better than Indian curry. 02:27:29 I never said you use the word taste. 02:27:31 *used 02:27:35 isn't anosmia pretty rare? 02:27:39 Gregor: lern2eprime 02:27:50 Just that you confused us all out of sheer malice. 02:28:01 Bike: Total anosmia is, partial anosmia isn't, and it's not total. 02:28:04 "I've heard that people don't usually get anosmia" 02:28:06 Oh. 02:28:24 anosmium 02:28:53 Modus ponies 02:29:09 anosmium: your sense of smell is very dense 02:29:40 Total ordering is rare, partial ordering isn't. 02:30:07 mathematics in e' sounds difficult 02:32:40 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:33:00 thai food does kick ass 02:33:24 It does. 02:33:50 And I need to find a good Thai place around here whilst I have reasons to go out to dinner. 02:36:36 thai food is evil though because I'm allergic to peanuts 02:37:51 It's good enough to die for, though, right? 02:38:03 the best thai restaurant near me is ostensibly a japanese / sushi restaurant 02:38:11 and the best szechuan restaurant near me is ostensibly a thai restaurant 02:39:07 I kind of, like, half-live on curry and sushi 02:39:52 Fiora: You only half-live?! 02:40:16 I am totally radioactive 02:40:38 I decay into Bike 02:40:48 Fiora = Bike? 02:41:23 there's a long-running gag elsewhere that I'm his genderswap 02:41:36 Mine is a tortured existence. Stable, but missing much of my personal identity, and will to live. 02:41:39 A corpse walking. 02:41:47 * Fiora patpatpat 02:45:04 (this is partially because we have like, 2 hour long conversations about jargony things like astrophysics and microchips and assembly and complexity theory that like literally nobody else there understands) 02:45:13 Fiora: Are you female, or is the genderswap of Bike also male? :P 02:45:32 yes I am female? :p 02:45:55 <-- ignorant 02:46:04 it's okay ^^ 02:46:16 I'm female, and so's my wife! 02:47:19 If I was better at understanding Fiora I would have made a joke about being whatever uranium decays to instead. 02:48:38 Bike: Sometimes uranium decays into uranium. 02:48:50 * Fiora looks up decay chains 02:49:03 Thorium-234 (for U-238) 02:49:10 not counting spontaneous fission or double beta decay 02:49:18 Damn, I don't think I know any thorium-related jokes. 02:49:52 and U-235 goes to... thorium 231. so similar I guess 02:50:27 thorizzle for rizzle 02:50:55 bike wields a giant hammer 02:50:56 thorium 02:51:23 Th-234 decays into Pa-234 which decays into U-234 02:51:33 COÏNCIDENCE? 02:51:45 PHYSICS? 02:51:46 Nitya decays back into Fiora! 02:51:53 Or something 02:52:16 I'm up for being in a BZ reaction with you. 02:53:28 is that a pickup line? 02:54:39 Yes. We will spin around romantically making pretty colors for a while, maybe get hacked by Adamatzky, and eventually end up a boring brown-colored bromine goop. 02:57:39 I thought the end of the decay chain was like lead or something 02:58:35 In addition to not being a nuclear physicist, I am also not a chemist. I'm multi-talented. 02:59:03 "end" 02:59:12 Fiora doesn't think of the future. 03:00:21 kmc: Are you going to run NixOS on your nonfree laptop? 03:00:23 She only has a half-life, she's going to live fast and die... well just live slower, actually. 03:01:11 Do physicists have half-life crises? 03:01:52 shachaf: well okay there's the theoretically-possible decays that haven't been observed :< 03:01:58 but might happen over really long times 03:03:17 "observationally stable"~ 03:03:41 i'm imagining grad students staring at a block of lead to see if it decays 03:03:42 What does ~ mean? 03:03:51 sing-songy tone 03:04:02 it's a tilde, it means, like, tilde-ness 03:04:02 :-( 03:04:06 So, Japanesey 03:04:12 what's tilde-ness 03:04:16 shachaf: i might try 03:04:21 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=~ 03:04:37 Are you a prep? 03:04:42 kmc: You should try and tell me how it goes! 03:04:50 What's a prep? 03:04:56 I don't think so... 03:05:13 I don't know, but Fiora apparently is one. 03:05:15 Or a literate. 03:08:05 * Fiora is reading about nuclei and isotopes again, damn you 03:08:31 Can you make a nuclear clock reaction? 03:08:40 um, what's that 03:08:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_clock 03:08:59 Except with something radioactive. 03:09:32 I think that's with nuclear resonances not decay? 03:09:50 Whatever! 03:10:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_clock 03:15:29 shachaf: okay! 03:15:32 also today I got a UPS 03:15:43 and even managed to make it talk to Linux 03:15:56 so now I can check whether the power supply at my house is 117 V or 118 V from ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD 03:18:25 How about the frequency? 03:18:52 Be nice to know if you suddenly get transported to eastern Japan. 03:19:00 yeah 03:19:29 it doesn't have that :/ 03:19:40 the kill-a-watt does, but does not talk to the internet without extra hardware 03:19:49 kmc: By the way, Cmm is a good compromise between Core and assembly, if you ever have to read GHC-generated code. 03:19:58 okay 03:19:59 The assembly is usually too awkward. :-( 03:20:01 i've read a little of it 03:20:09 also some unregisterized fvia-C code 03:20:11 I didn't think of it until luite mentioned it. 03:20:33 Maybe LLVM would be good too. I don't know. 03:25:58 dubious 03:26:04 it's like assembly but there is more stuff to read 03:26:24 you should write a GHC Haskell decompiler 03:33:28 * shachaf wonders whether there's much actual use of that. 03:36:36 Hmm, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/HoleyMonoid/latest/doc/html/Data-HoleyMonoid.html 03:36:45 elliott: monqy Fiora 03:36:58 Why am I looking at Factor again? 03:37:08 Oh, it makes you use (Category..). :-( 03:38:01 Sgeo|web_: dinosaurs are cool. 03:38:05 That's not actually necessary, is it? 03:39:07 "It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it." - GK Chesterton 03:39:47 Factor does the whole mutable thing though :( 03:40:30 "the whole mutable thing" 03:40:43 the whole mutable thing 03:42:42 zzo38: well, I have friends with whom I can joke about all religions 03:42:55 (except maybe those religions we haven't heard of yet) 03:43:14 well those friends happen to be atheist though 03:44:13 -!- Sgeo|web_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:45:53 Bike: you've started putting things sgeo says in quotes and then sending them back to the channel there is no escape now 03:46:25 D: 03:46:27 D: 03:46:31 D: 03:46:41 oh god how did you know that was your color in my client 03:46:44 what... what are you 03:47:09 im a magician 03:50:08 do you turn illusions for money 03:51:00 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 03:55:40 Bike: Your client colours people? 03:55:50 Next you'll say it doesn't support Unicode. 03:56:11 it would be pretty boring to see everyone as white, i get that enough in real life 03:56:34 `addquote Bike: Your client colours people? it would be pretty boring to see everyone as white, i get that enough in real life 03:56:37 865) Bike: Your client colours people? it would be pretty boring to see everyone as white, i get that enough in real life 03:56:50 so do you live in vampire land or sick people land 03:57:00 wannabe confederate land 03:57:19 elliott: Now your `addquoted me using British spelling! 03:57:25 Take it back. 03:57:26 even though it wasn't actually part of the union at the time... it's a weird place 03:57:26 what color am I 03:57:30 Lavender. 03:57:35 aw, pretty 03:58:09 you don't also do background colouring? that stuff's hideous 03:58:12 er 03:58:15 a "do you?" in there 03:58:17 it's nice your client knows my favorite colors 03:58:56 it only does background colors when somebody vomits up a ^C4,7 or what have you. 03:59:09 what about this stuff 03:59:24 yes, it does reverse video too. up to the latest 1988 graphics standards. 03:59:26 random colors 04:00:25 everse video. 04:00:33 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12780151/temp-behold.png take a trip, if you will, through another's eyes 04:00:50 is that ratpoison 04:01:00 Ratpoison's sequel, yeah. 04:01:02 oh maybe it is stumpwm 04:01:19 you are using the wrong obscure language for your window manager 04:01:24 yes yes xmonad 04:01:39 oh no im shachaf 04:01:46 i used to use the much less obscure lua one i forget the name of, but it's kind of nice being able to fuck up my config in a language I know instead 04:01:48 oh yes im monqy 04:01:51 finally 04:04:05 This computer will show the reverse-video, bold, but not the CTRL+C colors 04:04:54 zzo38: You'll have to acquire a better computer, then. 04:05:22 No, it is because I programmed it to show the reverse-video and the bold but not the CTRL+C colors on the IRC. 04:05:33 It isn't because I purchased it like this. 04:05:38 more like, sex gonad 04:06:39 I forget if you can compose them asdfghjhjkzxcv 04:06:45 well. 04:06:59 shachaf: i'm getting my laptop next tuesday, apparently 04:07:19 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 04:11:32 My computer using CTRL+V for reverse in IRC, and CTRL+R and CTRL+C are not recognized 04:13:14 look at that, fiora, you're internet famous 04:13:30 ?? 04:13:42 ... oh, arc's quit message 04:13:45 pffffff 04:13:59 I'm sorry, that joke was really really awful 04:15:06 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 04:16:11 http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSsymmetricunire 05:08:07 robots dot tee ex tee 05:13:42 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/14met7/oleg_typesafe_formatted_io/c7f8un6 05:13:46 Are tricks like that worth it? 05:33:24 http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commit;h=743aa456c1834f76982af44e8b71d1a0b2a82e21 05:33:29 rest in peace, 386 support. 05:33:44 Uh oh. 05:33:48 Linux is back to 286-only? 05:33:52 haha, Linus 05:33:56 love the ending 05:33:57 haha, shachaf 05:34:12 cold, linus. cold 05:34:34 zzo38: you should indicate that a half-piece and a full-piece cannot be contained in the same square 05:34:52 coppro: OK. 05:34:54 linus, why 05:34:58 now i have to run minix on my 386 05:35:03 did you really want me to run minix on my 386 05:35:21 2007-11-15: 80386 support removed 05:35:23 dammit netbsd 05:36:02 >FreeBSD 6.0 and newer no longer supports the original Intel 80386 CPU 05:36:18 OpenBSD: >All CPU chips compatible with the Intel 80386 (i386) architecture, except for the 80386 itself, are supported: 05:36:36 niiiiice 05:36:36 -!- Sgeo|web has changed nick to Sgeo. 05:36:41 this is a joke 05:36:50 Linus, wake up! No! This is the wrong way to go! 05:37:05 monqy: wake linus up 05:38:29 coppro: I fixed it now. 05:39:22 s/linus/the lions/ 05:50:06 by the way, was there any *NIX supporting 80286 CPU excluding Minix? 05:53:25 Xenix 05:54:41 oh yes, forgotten Microsoft UNIX :) 05:55:53 Also ELKS. 05:56:36 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:57:48 Is Tuesday longer than a piece of string? (I answered with another question) 05:58:41 Yonkie: coherent used to support 05:59:09 Yonkie: the latest version requires 386 but you should probably be able to find old versions 06:00:06 Well, Tyr's Day refers to the god of law. The law is known to have a long arm. 06:00:19 Strings are not generally very long. 06:00:29 So, Tuesday is longer than a piece of string. 06:05:23 removing 425 lines from the entire kernel doesn't seem like that much of a gain 06:05:26 Well, I was comparing it to the speed of light. 06:05:28 but maybe it is horrid code 06:06:19 Merge branch 'x86-nuke386-for-linus' of git://git./linux/kernel/git/tip/tip 06:06:20 what a good uri 06:07:18 "Most 386 processors have a bug where a POPAD can lock the machine even from user space." 06:07:21 good times 06:07:48 are there any *nixes other than minix that run in 32 bit protected mode and work in 386? 06:08:21 yes, linux until very recently 06:08:39 but they then decided to remove it :/ 06:09:04 yeah i ran minix on a 286 06:09:07 16 bit protected mode aww yeah 06:09:17 and even netbsd "of course it runs netbsd" has dropped support 06:09:21 kmc: only minix 2 06:09:36 and 1.x maybe 06:12:53 Science is not perfect. Religion is not perfect. Mathematics is perfect. Nevertheless, science is best we have. Do you agree? 06:13:20 is there going to be a quiz :< 06:13:50 I don't know. 06:13:59 That doesn't seem very mathematical. 06:14:14 I didn't say it was. 06:15:03 * elliott wonders how science is meant to be more "bester" than mathematics, though has no idea what you mean by "perfect" or "best" 06:15:13 Ah, but I didn't say you said it was! 06:15:27 OK, I was just making sure. 06:15:37 the chess variants thing is written by zzo right? 06:15:49 oklopol: Some chess variants are. 06:17:01 BTW, is there any esolangs mailing lists? all are seems to be dead 06:18:28 Yonkie: Now we have IRC and wiki, instead. 06:18:36 mathematics is perfect, so in particular better than anything not perfect, including science. science is best we have, thus we do not have mathematics. 06:18:51 do you agree? 06:19:49 No, that isn't quite what I meant. 06:21:40 Huh. I think I actually understand Factor resumable exceptions better than CL resumable exceptions 06:21:41 Sgeo: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 06:23:24 zzo38: oh :( 06:24:06 guys can you help me upgrade the fucking wiki 06:27:09 Sure! 06:27:19 What do you need? 06:27:48 mediawiki knowledge 06:27:55 that surpasses my own 06:28:53 I used to write a lot of templates on wikipedia 06:29:22 I know someone who works at the Wikimedia foundation. 06:29:24 everything is a string. it's a bit scary. 06:29:37 Gracenotes: i hear they are going to use lua instead 06:29:59 everything is a hashtable. it's a bit scary. 06:30:22 i agree w/ oklopol 06:30:25 strings > hashtables imo 06:30:29 Use it in lua a real language? 06:30:30 yes 06:30:52 heh. the hashtable part isn't the strangest bit of lua, it's how exposed the stack-based-ness is 06:30:56 imho 06:31:04 how is it exposed? 06:31:14 well. when using the C API. 06:31:47 i used it for some time but then i got so fucking annoyed with it asdfasdf 06:31:53 oh 06:31:56 yeah 06:32:06 oklopol: do you still actually like code 06:32:08 that stuff's horrible to read 06:32:08 I did last use it a few years ago. it's documented okayish 06:32:17 elliott: like code on which sense? 06:32:23 hi Gracenotes 06:32:27 oklopol: a good question 06:32:30 yes 06:32:41 i program things with a friend at least once a week. 06:32:58 that's fucking weird 06:33:00 did you ever finish that game 06:33:01 yes. 06:33:03 which one 06:33:08 idk 06:33:08 that one 06:33:12 we finished a game, sort of 06:33:13 you were going to code it in C# or something 06:33:17 and now we're working on another 06:33:23 we finished a game in c# 06:33:25 okay 06:33:26 what was it 06:33:29 called blockfest 06:33:51 is it good; can i play it 06:33:55 well kinda finished, the graphics is horrible and for instance we had ai but were too lazy to put it in. 06:34:22 oh err we'll put it somewhere for grabs at some point. 06:34:39 it's a silly 3d multiplayer game where you jump around with your ball and shoot other balls 06:35:13 and you have a kind of ninja rope and a burst thingie which are so strong that you're basically just flying around all the time 06:35:48 sounds pretty good 06:35:51 `welcome Gracenotes 06:35:53 and a couple of different guns. 06:35:53 Gracenotes: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:36:14 and a level editor which is just lol and a single player game which is just silly 06:36:22 I've seen that like 3 times :o 06:36:39 do you feel welcomed? 06:36:46 elliott: What's the " and deployment" for? 06:37:05 still on the todo list 06:37:21 oklopol: is the multiplayer networked 06:37:29 yes 06:37:35 `welcome Bike 06:37:36 Bike: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:37:49 Bike: Yes, I feel the metaphorical tentacles of this channel snugly wrapped around me. 06:38:10 it's not implemented very well. 06:38:17 :3 06:38:41 we implemented single player stuff and then realized we want multiplayer and just kind of haxored it up. 06:39:10 but something like 5 players work okay at least :P 06:39:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:39:22 oerjan: YO HELP ME UPGRADE THE WIKI THANKS 06:39:36 also there's a global repository for servers, and anyone can join any game. 06:39:43 wat 06:39:55 it wasn't really meant for distribution. 06:41:12 oerjan: theres problems 06:41:14 and it makes me sad 06:41:37 let me guess, it'll break /// again 06:42:16 no 06:42:18 its more 06:42:22 i literally cant do it 06:42:32 ah 06:42:38 i have that problem a lot to 06:42:50 to what 06:42:54 :D :D: D: :D :D: 06:42:58 it's funny because i misinterpreted what you said 06:43:03 but it was on purpose 06:43:03 oops 06:43:05 *+o 06:43:37 ooops 06:44:35 O KAY 06:44:36 no monqy........ 06:44:38 it's oopso 06:44:48 my magnum oopos 06:44:59 xD 06:45:55 elliott: the ais were pretty awesome when you had like 2 of them, usually they wouldn't care about you but just fight each other 06:46:09 and they would shoot the ninja rope into the other guy and burst in random directions 06:46:20 good 06:46:21 and they would just spiral into the air shooting with machine guns or something 06:46:37 and now there's just no. 523 left 06:46:59 i thought ais too 06:47:02 if you had more then 4 ais they would usually just kind of become a singularity of explosions in one of the spawns. 06:48:03 i don't even want to know what 523 ais would do 06:48:34 oklopol: some call it "Feather" 06:49:12 for the new game, we currently have a something like 100 randomly generated houses with 100 randomly placed monsters and you shoot them with your guns. 06:49:18 *-a 06:51:21 I have now recorded the session 27 of Dungeons&Dragons game. 06:51:36 what channel will it be on 06:51:42 i just bought my first tv 06:51:44 elliott: ooh, they invented feather but the resulting chaos retroactively destroyed it again, as well as all except one of them 06:51:50 It won't be on TV 06:51:54 It is text only. 06:52:06 why won't it be on tv? 06:52:17 i would prefer to watch it on my tv. 06:52:32 elliott: next question, what happened to the other 37 zzo's. 06:52:44 i tried to record, in text, a d&d game once. it was impossible. 06:52:52 oklopol: Then, connect your computer to your TV screen. 06:53:00 ooh i like that 06:53:05 And then you can watch it on TV. 06:53:08 yes 06:53:17 ok see ya buy buy 06:54:42 oerjan: if i cry if you don't help me upgrade mw would that help 06:56:01 elliott: Not really, no. 06:56:42 oerjan: it got you to use uppercase though!!!! it is working already 06:56:59 there's a specific reason for that. 06:57:16 :{ 06:57:25 every time I see "specific" i think "south pacific" and i don't know why 06:57:45 it's because "south pacific" is where we all secretly want to be 06:58:07 sadly, there isn't enough land mass there to fit us all in 06:58:38 maybe a gigantic fleet... 06:59:09 maybe they had one and it sank and thus the BLOOP 06:59:20 bloop freaks me out 07:00:21 i saw something about someone claiming it could be from breaking ice shelves 07:00:52 oh they added it to the wikipedia artible 07:01:10 artible 07:01:19 oobs 07:02:53 "cryogenic signals" 07:03:33 sounds alien 07:04:06 maybe they're really from an alien spaceship from titan 07:04:17 (titan is pretty cold you know) 07:04:30 and it has sirens, i think 07:04:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_AE 07:07:21 21:17:20: what if someone exploits the security bugs in the current version 07:07:24 21:17:25: and deletes all the brainfuck derivatives 07:07:31 at least we would have a main suspect handy. 07:28:57 oh, today is 12/12/12 07:31:36 happy 07:31:42 oh this is like the last one ever 07:32:07 Let's see if he logreads that. <-- NOT A CHANCE 07:32:36 oerjan: What did you logread? 07:32:46 -!- oklofok has joined. 07:32:48 YOU MAY NEVER KNOW 07:33:01 Re. 12/12/12 https://twitter.com/GSElevator/status/278683602848448513 07:33:03 Wasn't it a question? 07:33:39 more like shouting 07:34:12 I don't even remember. 07:34:35 > 0o08 -- REMEMBER ON THIS 07:34:37 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 07:34:37 arising from the ambiguity chec... 07:35:02 If you need to declare a special pointer in a C program, what would be the way? One idea would be volatile char x[1]; as a global variable. Maybe "volatile" is not needed but if you are using it only as the pointer and not the value I don't know what optimization it would do. I don't know if there is better way, though. 07:35:38 oklopol: Why is it difficult to record a D&D game once with text? 07:36:04 oerjan: Oh, right. 07:36:09 oerjan: Do you hate me now? 07:38:22 -!- evitable has joined. 07:39:30 MY HATE FOR YOU HAS NOT BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED BY THIS 07:40:12 wasn't there something you could do with that even in vanilla ghci 07:40:22 :t 0o08 07:40:23 (Num a, Num (a -> t)) => t 07:55:32 looks a bit like that lexer bug in PHP 07:55:56 :t 0 8 07:55:57 (Num a, Num (a -> t)) => t 07:56:16 i enjoyed Titan A.E. as a kid but I have been informed that it is actually mega shitty 07:57:31 olsner: it's completely according to the haskell standard 07:57:55 It looks fine to me, even though strange. 07:58:06 > "foo\ \bar" -- did you know this is in the haskell standard? 07:58:08 "foobar" 07:58:15 now whether it makes _sense_ to have the greedy lexing rule be more important than not cutting off in the middle of alphanumerics is a different matter. 07:58:35 kmc: what the hell? 07:58:54 kmc: yes. i've used it for multiline strings. 07:58:54 Bike: For multi-line strings 07:58:56 > 0o0 8 07:58:58 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) 07:58:58 arising from the ambiguity chec... 07:59:09 that's... egh. 07:59:31 Bike: the worst part is you _still_ have to write explicit \n's 08:00:00 it's useful for a multi-line string that's indented within the source 08:00:13 At least I think it makes sense for 0o08 to mean 0o0 8 even though it doesn't mean you should write a program like that! (Unless you are doing something strange like polyglots or whatever) 08:00:26 alright, so the octal constant just ends before the 8 ... I thought there had to be something lexed twice there 08:00:28 oerjan: I think it's good that that is available, but having something with implicit \n's would of course be useful 08:00:58 As in I'd rather have only that than only the alternative 08:01:07 Can you use TH quasiquotes? 08:01:15 it would probably be helpful to make this an error (invalid octal literal?) instead of treating it as 0 8 08:01:30 zzo38: yes, there's a library that makes [s|...|] work for that 08:01:41 nolnsnerse 08:02:28 olsner: i think a rule that haskell lexing cannot stop between adjacent alphanumerics would have been an improvement 08:02:30 olsner: Maybe to you it is. To me, either way should be OK. 08:02:34 kmc: that's less surprising than \& 08:03:26 or... haskell could just use radixals instead 08:03:33 RIGHT 08:05:57 hey oerjan. should i sleep. 08:06:19 oerjan: why do you hate golf 08:06:40 shachaf: TOO MANY HOLES 08:06:58 elliott: of course not, it's daytime! 08:07:15 * oerjan all sensible normal opinion today 08:07:23 shachaf: the issue with HTTP POST to a SMTP server is even more subtle than the IRC spambot thing 08:07:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:07:44 kmc: ? 08:07:51 oerjan: you mean it's very very late night 08:08:30 `addquote Do physicists have half-life crises? 08:08:33 *Main> (not |- (length :: [()] -> Int) |- (subtract 1 :: Int -> Int) |- id) [(),()] 08:08:35 866) Do physicists have half-life crises? 08:08:36 :50:33: Couldn't match type 'True with 'False 08:08:36 sigh 08:08:37 I want a refund 08:08:40 well, let's say GET instead 08:08:41 elliott: eat breakfast and it will be morning 08:09:08 olsner: but i'll still be tired 08:09:12 if i make you visit http://mail.example.com:25/ 08:09:14 SMTP should require HELO at first though 08:09:23 the server's error message will echo that HTML 08:09:32 and your browser will interpret it as a HTTP/0.9 headerless response 08:09:38 and assume a content type of text/html 08:09:51 and it has access to *.example.com cookies and whatever 08:09:52 It shouldn't treat it as a headerless response unless the request is headerless. 08:10:02 zzo38: apparently it does, though 08:10:08 i just read about this in _The Tangled Web_ 08:10:18 Oh, should I read that book? 08:10:20 Perhaps it does, but, it shouldn't. 08:10:23 yes 08:10:28 the part i have read so far is very good 08:10:29 I'm not sure which IRC spambot thing you mean. 08:10:45 i learned a lot and I really enjoy the author's tone of "wheeee the web is crazy and we are all screwed" 08:10:54 oh, maybe you were not here when I was discussing it earlier 08:11:01 Somebody set up a web page with a form that would POST-on-load to http://irc.freenode.org:6667 . The form data contained IRC commands to log in, join a bunch of channels, and spam them with links to said page. 08:11:11 However there is also the opposite problem, which the Google server returns headers even though the request is headerless. 08:11:12 http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/postxss/ was good. 08:11:23 as a result Freenode's IRCd now interprets "POST" as an alias for QUIT 08:11:46 also TIL that chrome has a port number blacklist and simply won't let you do HTTP to port 6667 anymore 08:11:49 kmc: Oh, I see. 08:11:55 Yes it is the problem with HTTP and HTML and all that stuff causes a lot of problem like that. 08:12:10 i also learned about another hilarious attack, which is: 08:12:12 Therefore, avoid it if you have the alternatives. 08:12:48 you know that thing where sites can tell what other sites you have visited, by making links and inspecting the color of those links? 08:12:54 Yes. 08:13:01 (There are lots of other ways too.) 08:13:02 various browsers disabled that inspection capability as a result 08:13:04 BUT 08:13:05 after the internet apocalypse, only zzo38's gopher server will be up 08:13:14 you can still trick the user into revealing the information 08:13:31 You can look at cache timing, you can open iframes and see if they load successfully or not. 08:13:39 by building a fake CAPTCHA that will look different depending on the link colors 08:13:45 Into revealing link color information? 08:13:47 Oh, hah. 08:13:48 kmc: When looking at about:config in Firefox at FreeGeek I did see those things and realize that must be why. 08:13:59 i like this exploit because it involves covertly exfiltrating data through the USER'S OWN BRAIN!! 08:14:19 Seems like that particular information is very difficult to keep hidden. 08:14:23 oerjan: I am not the only one who has a gopher server. 08:14:34 There are some others, too. 08:14:35 But that's a funny attack. 08:14:43 zzo38: good, good 08:15:29 I should read that book. Most things I've read from him have been good. 08:15:29 insame2 :: (TypeEq x x' b, TypeEq y y' b', b `Implies` b') => (x -> y) -> Maybe (x' -> y') 08:15:33 i think security is an inherently funny field, because exploits and jokes have a lot of structural similarities 08:15:37 tempted to tweak one of the letters of this function's name 08:16:53 a good exploit does something clever and unexpected, in a way that mixes levels or combines things that weren't meant to be used together, and is transgressive and mischeivous 08:17:03 these are all building blocks of humor as well :) 08:17:15 I have said before! HTTPS is not really so secure! SSH is secure and should be used to send money by internet, and it should be done by connecting to your bank account to split your account; this way is more secure nobody can steal your credit card numbers or whatever. 08:18:01 anyway i will sleep now 08:18:02 good night all 08:18:06 kmc: Well, it is also a way of hacking, whether or not you are trying to exploit any security. 08:18:26 But hackers say funny thing too. I consider Feynman was hacker, too. 08:18:48 humor is hacking of the human mind 08:19:05 ((length :: [()] -> Int) |- id) :: (TypeEq [()] y' b, TypeEq Int y' b') => y' -> y' 08:19:05 oerjan: O, OK, then. Now it is understandable. 08:19:08 that's not what I wanted :( 08:19:14 Do you consider Feynman was hacker? 08:19:22 oh hm. 08:19:26 I need to make it even more general. 08:19:49 oh, I guess that makes sense 08:21:53 i haven't paid much attention to feynman, a couple of anecdotes maybe. 08:22:22 he seemed to hack brazil's education system all right 08:23:17 *Main> test ["a","b","c"] 08:23:17 "abc" 08:23:17 *Main> test [(),()] 08:23:17 "[(),()]" 08:23:17 *Main> test (123::Integer) 08:23:20 "123" 08:23:22 *Main> test False 08:23:25 "sorry" 08:23:27 *Main> test ((),()) 08:23:30 "sorry" 08:23:32 monqy: am I terrible? 08:23:38 huh what 08:23:45 ps test :: (TypeEq [String] x' b, TypeEq [()] x' b1, TypeEq Integer x' b2) => x' -> String 08:23:58 Sorry for what? 08:24:07 it's sorry it doesn't know what type you are 08:24:08 For not accepting that type. 08:24:41 monqy: the definition: http://sprunge.us/hMbb 08:24:57 whats all this stuff 08:25:15 is it typeclass hacks............ 08:25:20 elliott......................... 08:25:20 (|-) :: (TypeEq x x' b, TypeEq y y' b') => (x -> y) -> (x' -> y') -> x' -> y' 08:25:20 f |- g = fromMaybe g (insame f) 08:25:39 I think you typoed "insane" 08:25:44 what's TypeEq 08:26:04 Deewiant: 08:15:36 tempted to tweak one of the letters of this function's name 08:26:19 monqy: an updated version of oleg's TypeEq hack 08:26:28 are you sure you want to see it 08:26:31 yeah 08:26:32 class TypeEq x y (b :: Bool) | x y -> b where same :: p x -> Maybe (p y) 08:26:32 instance (b ~ True) => TypeEq x x b where same = Just 08:26:32 instance (b ~ False) => TypeEq x y b where same = const Nothing 08:26:44 ah 08:26:48 (same is just witness to (possible) Leibniz equality) 08:26:50 elliott now updates oleg, be very afraid 08:27:20 monqy: the cool thing is this (|-) works both for mapping any type to a result of a certain type and for mapping any type to itself 08:27:30 depending on whether you use (const x) or id as the last one 08:29:50 oh cooool 08:29:54 oerjan: I get to use constraint kinds!!! 08:30:03 um, maybe? 08:30:04 not sure 08:31:25 man this sure is a hack 08:31:34 don't you mean 08:31:36 beautiful 08:31:44 yeah it's def. on the beautiful side 08:31:51 you know what isn't 08:31:55 (it's printf) 08:32:06 are you using printf or something 08:32:09 no 08:32:15 but i know it 08:32:25 mmm 08:32:37 btw insame is 08:32:40 insame :: (TypeEq x x' b, TypeEq y y' b') => (x -> y) -> Maybe (x' -> y') 08:32:40 insame f = contrasame f >>= same 08:32:40 elliott: i am just waiting for someone to discover that ghc now accidentally can support full dependent typing, as long as you do it in the type system. 08:32:42 in case you didn't guess 08:32:47 i'm sure you can figure out what contrasame is 08:32:53 have you used printf 08:33:01 the Text.Printf one? 08:33:02 yeah. 08:33:03 yeah 08:33:05 i wrote my own type-safe printf 08:33:08 bit awkward to use tho 08:33:13 turns out oleg has done it better 08:34:20 okay now i've gotten to the bit i wanted to and have utterly confused myself 08:34:53 oh hm 08:35:04 maybe this actually means you don't need Data at all? and can just use Foldable/Traversable 08:35:07 oh wait no you need a 08:35:08 type-generic version of those 08:35:11 mmmmmmmm 08:35:45 self-confusion is the most confusing confusion 08:36:04 monqy: i have no idea what i'm doing. does that mean i should sleep 08:37:12 elliott: I'm not monqy, but maybe 08:37:25 If it's still just as confusing in the morning, you're out of luck 08:37:28 elliott: what are you doing 08:40:39 Overlapping instances for TypeEq y x b'0 arising from a use of `f' 08:40:43 monqy: overlapping instances 08:41:01 are x and y both equal and nonequal 08:41:05 they're 08:41:09 in a superposition 08:41:22 what did you do 08:41:26 :( 08:41:45 ok i got 08:41:46 gmap :: (forall z b. (TypeEq x z b) => z -> z) -> (x,y) -> (x,y) 08:41:46 gmap f (a, b) = (f a, b) 08:41:47 that working 08:41:50 that's a start 08:42:01 oh noooo 08:42:04 it doesn't work when you use it 08:42:20 im going to cry 08:42:55 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:45:48 I tried something with making a Fourier transform on two signals, and then using the real part of the result of one and the imaginary part of the result of the other, and then make the inverse Fourier transform from that. 08:46:05 did it work 08:46:11 -!- sivoais has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:46:46 Yes, it did work. 08:47:10 zzo38: What did it sound like 08:47:20 *Main> gmap blah (1::Int, ()) 08:47:20 (0,()) 08:47:20 *Main> gmap blah ((), ()) 08:47:20 :154:6: Overlapping instances for TypeEq Int z b0 08:47:23 monqy: im so close 08:47:26 Imaginary part is the phase, right? 08:47:37 elliott is channeling the spam 08:47:41 or spamming the channel? 08:47:47 `quote 08:47:47 `quote 08:47:48 `quote 08:47:48 `quote 08:47:48 `quote 08:47:49 520) now that we've cleared that up let us hug fungot = elliott_: let's not start that again." 08:47:50 514) I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed. 08:47:50 652) if the halting problem was solved, as a placebo.. would it benefit people? 08:47:50 28) I am not on the moon. 08:47:50 411) MY CONTINUITY MY FANFICTION RUINED 08:47:57 shachaf: shut the fuck up 08:48:18 Hmm, all of those are too good to delete. 08:48:18 FreeFull: No, I don't think so. Amplitude/phase are the other way to specify the numbers than real/imaginary, I think 08:48:21 shachaf. etqet. 08:48:28 monqy: no u 08:48:30 shachaf: Then don't delete those ones. 08:48:41 Some of those make a degree of sense when read consecutively like that. 08:48:50 zzo38: Oh, I think I know now what it's like 08:48:57 So, what did it sound like 08:48:58 elliott: whats blah 08:48:59 apparently NihilistDandy was writing fanfic of zzo38 08:49:08 on the moon 08:49:26 I don't know how to describe it but if you have Csound you will be able to use this Csound plugin so you can know by yourself what it is sounding like. 08:49:43 Gotta go 08:49:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Cya). 08:49:47 zzo38: Why would anyone think you're on the moon? 08:50:17 shachaf: The quotation is out of context. I do not remember. 09:04:36 -!- nooga has joined. 09:40:08 `quote 09:40:08 `quote 09:40:08 `quote 09:40:08 `quote 09:40:09 `quote 09:40:10 144) Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? alise: TLAAW 09:40:10 427) rest in peace lambdabot???? monqy: it'll probably be back later nap in peace 09:40:11 862) [after discussing lens] they seem to be the fashion of this winter hagb4rd is wearing this season's Lens, a stunning little ensemble with functor trim 09:40:11 148) the pregnant ones are usually taken already. 09:40:11 139) alise: so parrot was based around gcc? 09:40:55 148 09:41:14 what does that even mean 09:41:57 `delquote 148 09:42:01 ​*poof* the pregnant ones are usually taken already. 09:42:29 `quote 09:42:29 `quote 09:42:29 `quote 09:42:29 `quote 09:42:30 `quote 09:42:31 135) I love logic, especially the part where it makes no sense. 09:42:31 251) Why do you want to have sex in everything? I don't want. 09:42:31 692) kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list?????? 09:42:32 847) fungot: what's your view on angels and other otherworldly beings? olsner: well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be dumped in rain forests of laukaa. 09:42:32 375) oerjan: can you delete that and the meta turing completeness page thanks elliott: IN UNIVERSO ALTERNATIVO, OERJAN PAGINAS DELET 09:43:08 375? 09:43:46 SORRY CONFLICT OF INTEREST 09:43:48 You should not necessarily think you have to delete any of one, I guess. 09:44:24 zzo38: Good point. 09:44:26 `quote 09:44:26 `quote 09:44:26 `quote 09:44:27 `quote 09:44:28 41) It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? 09:44:28 3) that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop 09:44:28 797) Sleep on the ceiling next Sunday. 09:44:29 682) i think i'll just take the usual route and go do post doc research somewhere far away and never come back and become a drug lord and kill myself 09:44:29 `quote 09:44:31 262) addquoting yourself? isn't that like commenting on your own facebook status? Yup, but I'm JUST THAT AWESOME. 09:44:58 41 or 3 09:45:33 i think those count as vintage 09:45:50 how about 262 then 09:45:52 They're still bad. 09:45:59 This is why we need to eliminate quote ordering. 09:46:00 perhaps 3 09:46:09 3 has broken spacing, too. 09:46:18 3 is definitely bad though yes 09:46:27 fizzie makes a good point. 09:46:30 3 needs to go. 09:46:31 `delquote 3 09:46:35 ​*poof* that's where I got it rocket launch facility gift shop 09:50:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:55:26 -!- sivoais has joined. 10:08:30 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:09:30 -!- fungot has joined. 10:09:41 I keep not noticing the disapparation of fungot. 10:09:41 fizzie: others don't care, i'm not really sure i like 10:11:15 fungot: don't go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10:11:16 shachaf: and use lower case pic. fnord/ img/ tmp/ skreen.jpg really has readable text? did you reload packages.scm? 10:11:29 `quote 10:11:29 `quote 10:11:30 `quote 10:11:30 `quote 10:11:30 `quote 10:11:30 548) Second Life is like... real life, modelled by people who've READ about real life, you know, in books. 10:11:31 272) elliott: parents who put just "Chris" on a birth certificate are... like parents who put just "Bob" on a birth certificate. 10:11:32 210) [on Walter Bright] I went to chat with him after his talk at the ELC and he was like "hum, right - humans. How do they work again... oh, hi!" 10:11:32 751) is tswett Warrigal? 10:11:32 43) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 10:11:52 272 or 751 10:15:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:15:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:15:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:21:07 fungot: enlighten me 10:21:07 FireFly: i suppose that gives it a nice fnord. 10:21:21 and FireFly was enlightened 10:21:47 The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all. 10:24:17 indeed, the feet just shrink 10:25:08 So GHC stores the stack pointer in %rbp. 10:36:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:37:14 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 10:37:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 10:39:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:46:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:50:58 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:02 -!- hogeyui has joined. 11:18:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:48 -!- sivoais has joined. 11:24:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:30:45 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:43:50 elliott, 5 years ago: "You've convinced me. I'm going to learn Factor." 11:45:58 I heard Factor was dead. 11:47:38 [04:40] 148) the pregnant ones are usually taken already. 11:47:54 benuphoenix was responding to something I said, if that little bit of extra context helps 11:48:38 `quote 11:48:38 `quote 11:48:38 `quote 11:48:39 `quote 11:48:39 `quote 11:48:40 143) Why do you use random acronyms you know we don't know the expansions of? alise: TLAAW 11:48:40 517) elliott_: it's a machine that looks like you! 11:48:40 52) both of you, quit it with the f-bombs. kaelis: what's the matter? something censoring stuff you're interested in? 11:48:41 101) ooh a test to see your procrastination hotspots ill do it later 11:48:41 247) zzo38: you missed the point. the point was way stupider than that. 11:49:06 `delquote 101 11:49:10 ​*poof* ooh a test to see your procrastination hotspots ill do it later 12:09:40 `run wc -l quotes 12:09:42 863 quotes 12:09:50 You don't want to run out of them, after all. 12:10:30 `quote 12:10:30 `quote 12:10:31 `quote 12:10:31 `quote 12:10:31 `quote 12:10:32 62) Warrigal: what do you mean by 21? 12:10:33 774) The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. True, but how many of them are on fire? 12:10:33 177) (had real world issues) (to deal with) Vorpal's pregnant. yes 12:10:34 365) elliott: actually, it's worse right now, I'm in the USA where the solution to counterfeiting problems is "add more ink" eventually all US bills will just be solid green 12:10:34 200) GCC: -Os -O2 -O3 gives a 4x improvment 12:11:19 774,365,200 12:11:33 fungot: If your "fnord" URI up there was talking about http://zem.fi/~fis/skreen.jpg I don't think it's all that readable. 12:11:33 fizzie: i think it can be defined as a foreign fnord fnord? :d did i leave any channel but esoteric? 12:11:52 (Then again, I did use to read it, so...) 12:11:58 I think it's quite readable 12:12:04 Modulo the line noise 12:12:34 I suppose if you go by the literal definition of "able to be read". 12:12:50 There's quite a lot of color misalignment there. 12:14:53 Just zoom out until it doesn't matter. 12:15:48 I think I ran the CRT at 1600x1200 and that was perhaps slightly too high for the physical limits. 12:16:12 It's also from the corner of the screen, the middle part was perhaps a bit more RGB-aligned. 12:26:56 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:37:09 fungot: what is a foreign fnord fnord? 12:37:10 FireFly: i dont think i make up the syntax to do anything; markup commands are written out; for instance, i don't follow 12:37:37 fungot: neither do I 12:37:38 FireFly: he even left here with the 0830 bus to go there implied changing step 1 to ' go.') the interesting question is how much work is already there for the different phases so i know what you mean 12:39:50 fungot: It's good someone does. 12:39:54 fizzie: what's the inverse of a function, then evaluate ' toosmall and return the one that is used 13:08:49 -!- carado has joined. 13:20:07 -!- boily has joined. 13:20:31 ^style 13:20:31 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:20:34 thought so 13:20:38 but wanted to make sure 13:23:43 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 13:24:27 I just restamarted it, it gets reset to IRC then since styles aren't persistent. 13:24:47 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:24:54 fungot: You really should save at least that ^ignore list. 13:24:54 fizzie: there is no binding named push! or pop! specified in any of the pins and it was a particular type really is of that opinion. 13:25:37 -!- carado has joined. 13:25:48 fungot: I can't understan your sentence 13:25:49 nortti: unfortunately that also depends on the axiom of choice can't be computed) save work for them parttime stuff 13:27:11 Deep. 13:28:06 fungot: how are you this fine day? 13:28:07 FireFly: could you give a url for the odbc data manager? i can't seem to 13:28:20 fungot: 'fraid not 13:28:21 FireFly: ( cons http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 2081 13:28:56 (cdr fungot= 13:28:57 FireFly: its been said that magic is at http://magic.xmog.com/ darcs/ s48-grovel/. :) 13:29:02 argh. (cdr fungot)* 13:29:03 FireFly: yow! perhaps it's that big lisp conference in amsterdam! 13:29:21 Perhaps so 13:30:57 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:31:04 (car fungot) 13:31:05 nortti: it just stopped raining here. tweak it later. i did it with hannah arendt?" 13:43:47 fungot: Raining? If anything, it'd be snowing. 13:43:48 fizzie: maybe just ' cpx' mayo!! i want a divorce!!... you're not clint eastwood!! 13:47:28 :D 13:48:00 I don't think I've ever claimed to be, either. :/ 13:48:45 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:49:07 Just give fungot some 'cpx' mayo and hopefully they'll be fine 13:49:07 FireFly: i should have it repeat at the end to enqueue, and remove duplicates in the list. directly assigning the last cdr is an a-list. 13:49:35 fungot: you really like lisp, don't you? 13:49:35 FireFly: indeed it does 13:49:54 fungot: please try not to be sentinent 13:49:55 FireFly: maybe if you click on values to show those in turn... i'm going to have to work out 13:59:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:00:54 Sentient and "working out": not a good combination. 14:16:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:16:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:25:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:28:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:38:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:12:24 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 15:21:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:24:34 * ais523 reads comment from disgruntled author on Slashdot who claims they're getting no royalties from the book because, despite getting several comments from readers about it, the publishers claim it has negative sales 15:24:45 I guess it's not significantly harder to believe than zero sales… 15:27:22 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:27:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:27:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:27:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:29:51 so people sold copies of the book to the publisher? 15:30:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:32:47 well it makes a lot of sense 15:32:52 ``[oblig]: Handy fact: "miles-per-gallon" (Imperial gallons mind you) is equivalent to "furlongs-per-pint" :)'' 15:32:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `[oblig]:: not found 15:32:59 hm 15:33:20 imagine someone forgot to put a lock on the place where books are stored 15:33:28 so free copies are running around 15:33:49 and the publisher knows that free copies running around are very bad for business, so he wants them bak 15:34:06 /bak/back/ 15:45:52 oklopol: I don't know 15:46:00 the author thought it was the evolution of creative accounting 15:46:33 like, the way that the amount of water content in meat in the UK is calculated by measuring it, then subtracting a constant and rounding in a particular way 15:46:36 which means it can go negative sometimes 15:46:59 interesting 15:58:20 -!- Bike has joined. 16:53:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:00:44 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:03:09 `run hg diff -c 1040 | patch -R 17:03:14 patching file quotes 17:03:55 hg boson 17:09:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:10:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:10:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:11:11 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:19:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:19:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 17:19:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:23:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:29:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:38:09 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 17:38:32 -!- augur has joined. 17:38:58 ais523: so I was thinking, Feather's # can be implemented by giving method-objects a member named "#" which holds the lambda 17:41:14 if you apply an object foo to bar (foo bar) then if bar isn't defined do index(foo, "bar"), otherwise do apply(index(foo, "#"), bar) 17:41:41 numeric literals are just names and can be rebound, but initially have the "obvious" object with arithmetic methods etc. The initial # of a number object is its Church representation 17:42:25 e.g. (2 #) yields the lambda (\f\x.f (f x)) 17:42:58 and errrr I guess if I can't find a meaningful # for some object I'll just give it (\x.x) 17:44:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:46:06 e.g. the host evaluator I've got written here passes in an initially bound name "" which holds a few useful methods like ( call/cc) 17:46:07 what should ( #) yield?? I am going with [x | x] :-) 17:46:07 okay ais523 is AFK, but hopefully he'll logread later and his head will asplode 17:47:33 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: bbl). 17:48:05 this isn't head-exploding stuff, I workeed that much out ages ago 17:54:57 Perhaps it's an indirect head-exploder, meant to just make you start thinking about Feather again. 17:55:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:56:13 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 17:56:16 fizzie: that is what I meant 17:56:22 hi GreyKnight 17:56:30 monqy: hi 17:57:28 ais523: IIUC a name is only ever bound to an object? i.e. (foo) never directly evaluates to a lambda, only the indexed reference (foo #) does 17:57:43 GreyKnight: err, lambdas are objects 17:57:51 err, I mean, objects are lambdas 17:58:00 a name is never bound to anything, really 17:59:17 oh right, the "object" (foo) is basically a lambda which uses its argument as an index 18:00:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:00:27 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:00:27 yeah 18:01:20 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:17:34 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:22:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:23:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:27:28 -!- greyooze has joined. 18:30:19 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:30:23 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 18:35:22 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:40:25 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:47:58 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:51:31 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: It explodes!). 19:13:26 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:18:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:39:20 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 19:39:47 generics.hs:87:27: 19:39:47 Could not deduce ((?) y ts ctx1) arising from a use of `spec' 19:39:47 from the context ((??) ((':) * x ((':) * y ('[] *))) ts ctx2) 19:39:47 bound by the type signature for 19:39:47 gmap :: (??) ((':) * x ((':) * y ('[] *))) ts ctx2 => 19:39:49 (forall z. Spec ts z z) -> (x, y) -> (x, y) 19:39:52 oerjan: I think I might be doing something wrong. 19:40:03 what the fuck 19:40:07 fungot: open your mind 19:40:08 GreyKnight: whats gnome-vfs?) i had nothing to do 19:40:32 Fungot is making more sense than elliott right now :v 19:40:44 kmc: 19:40:44 class ctx => (??) (xs :: [*]) (ts :: [*]) ctx | xs ts -> ctx 19:40:44 instance ('[] ?? ts) () 19:40:44 instance ((x ? ts) ctx, (xs ?? ts) ctx') => ((x ': xs) ?? ts) ((x ? ts) ctx, ctx') 19:40:49 I... guess that doesn't really help explain. 19:41:13 elliott: O KAY 19:41:20 oic 19:42:44 Hmm Fungot doesn't trigger a witticism? Or did he go on throttle? 19:43:15 Come back fungot, you're the most sensible person here! 19:43:16 GreyKnight: ( it's also the whole impediment that disables him from being able to click ' ok' for me :) you mean to read the specs closely to the current directory 19:43:36 Phew 19:44:16 kmc: I don't even know what I'm doing any more. 19:44:24 For a minute there I thought I might have to try and comprehend that Haskell spew 19:45:17 that's not haskell 19:45:20 Probably due to case-sensitive? 19:45:50 kmc: Well it sort of is. 19:45:58 I "only" have 13 extensions on. 19:46:03 I probably don't even need all of them. 19:46:05 craaaaazy extensions 19:46:38 "I, Leor Zolman, hereby release all rights to BDS C (all binary and source code modules, including compiler, linker, library sources, utilities, and all documentation) into the Public Domain. Anyone is free to download, use, copy, modify, sell, fold, spindle or mutilate any part of this package forever more. If, however, anyone ever translates it to BASIC, FORTRAN or C#, please don't tell me." 19:47:04 hehe 19:47:21 What is BDS C? 19:48:04 z80/8080 c compiler that implements subset of k&r c 19:48:36 I suppose now, other people might improve it, if they want to. 19:48:44 yeah 19:48:56 GreyKnight: He's strictly a lowercase bot. 19:49:18 fungot: Are you a caseist? 19:49:19 fizzie: is it an ingenious joke? :d did i leave? except to wish me good night, offby1. 19:51:50 Mo' like off by 32 19:54:33 fungot, do you think of HackEgo as your sibling? Or cousin? 19:54:34 GreyKnight: i mean the default handler procedure. it would just generate a new position for every recursive call? yes, that's my suggestion would be to cheat there 19:55:02 *Main> :k! forall ts ctx. (('[Int,String] ?? ts) ctx) 19:55:02 forall ts ctx. (('[Int,String] ?? ts) ctx) :: Constraint 19:55:02 = forall (ts :: [*]) (ctx :: Constraint). (??) ((':) * Int ((':) * [Char] ('[] *))) ts ctx 19:55:13 it doesn't help that ghci is profoundly awful at showing this stuff 19:55:49 Things I understood: Int, String 19:57:35 What's [Foo,Bar]? 19:57:41 @faq Hm? 19:57:41 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 19:57:46 (I will start small :v) 19:58:36 I think that elliott's code there has a lot of nonstandard stuff, and wouldn't be great for learning hasell exactly? 19:58:43 GreyKnight: '[Foo,Bar] is a type-level list 19:58:54 Bike: I don't think this code is good for learning *anything* 19:59:27 Bike: I know enough Haskell to recognise it is mostly extensions. But I was interested! 19:59:45 dangerous feeling, that 20:00:36 hm maybe I need to encode constraint implication as a typeclass 20:00:45 Yes, I think I'm about at the "just enough knowledge to be dangerous to myself and those around me" level :v 20:00:55 > iterate (\x -> x*x) 2 20:00:57 [2,4,16,256,65536,4294967296,18446744073709551616,3402823669209384634633746... 20:01:37 p.s. all I am actually trying to do is shorten ((x ? ts) ctx, (y ? ts) ctx') to (('[x,y] ?? ts) ctx) 20:02:47 Where does the letters of spectral class of starts from? 20:03:26 (Someone said he thought they stood for: awesome, beautiful, amazing, fantastic, good, cool, and mediocre. But, probably that isn't it.) 20:03:52 and O is for "oooooh!" 20:04:21 I thought "m" was "mainline". 20:04:32 Bike: Maybe it is but I don't know what they stand for. 20:04:44 Or even if they stand for anything. 20:05:16 I actually don't know! We should find out. 20:05:23 wikipedia isn't helping... 20:05:40 I also tried Wikipedia 20:06:20 "The current non-alphabetical scheme developed from an earlier scheme using all letters from A to O" 20:06:34 Though! It does mention a class W extension, which is apparently named after its author, Wolf. 20:07:20 http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=488 20:09:33 Wikipedia mentions some other classes too 20:10:33 Is there a "Spectral types in popular culture" section?? 20:10:40 (please say yes) 20:15:18 > iterate (iterate (map (+1))) 20:15:20 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = [a0] 20:15:25 > iterate (iterate (map (+1))) [1] 20:15:27 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = [a0] 20:15:33 generics.hs:83:36: 20:15:33 Could not deduce (Elem x1 xs0 'True) arising from a use of spec' 20:15:33 from the context ((TypeEq t x b, ctx, ctx'), 20:15:33 TypeEq t x b, 20:15:33 (??) ((':) * x ('[] *)) ts ctx, 20:15:36 (??) xs ((':) * t ts) ctx') 20:15:38 kmc: HELP ME 20:15:58 Haskell might be the most confusing programming language ever sometimes :D 20:16:19 :t Confusion 20:16:20 Not in scope: data constructor `Confusion' 20:16:24 FreeFull: this isn't Haskell 20:16:28 no one can help you where you're going, elliott 20:16:34 it is crazy-land experimental GHC extensions 20:16:46 it's "haskell" 20:17:08 Haskell++ 20:17:26 yeah basically 20:17:37 with Enterprise Haskell Beans? 20:17:44 this is similar to complaining about C upon seeing some C++ code 20:17:52 except that C++ is at least a standard with multiple implementations 20:18:26 whereas *this* is just a big pile of stuff shovelled together and set on fire :o) 20:18:37 totally unlike C++ in that respect, amirite. 20:18:48 no comment 20:19:02 hm should i give my C++ speech again 20:19:14 Is it funny? 20:19:16 why do you have a C++ speech? 20:19:16 kmc: I'd rather one compiler that makes as much sense as GHC (i.e. a minimal amount) than the mess that nobody knows how to implement that is C++ 20:19:17 not really 20:19:50 Bike: because my opinion of C++ is uncommon and i keep wanting to explain it 20:20:03 If it's just a C++ *rant* then I could give my own 20:20:16 if uncommon means "I don't think it sucks as much as you think" i'd like to hear it 20:20:21 Oh okay, probably not a major rant then, that is not exactly uncommon 20:21:09 it's not so much that it doesn't suck, but it sucks in an unusual way that is not commonly appreciated 20:21:41 it is common for languages to have a haphazard pile of features that interact poorly 20:21:56 that is often said about C++ 20:21:57 * Fiora would be interested? 20:21:59 Which out of the many bizarre forms of suckage C++ exhibits do you refer to? :-) 20:22:00 but i don't think it's true 20:22:32 in fact, if you learn C++ in depth, you see that it all fits together just so, into a design that is powerful, consistent, and maybe even elegant 20:22:44 unfortunately this design is so ornate and complicated that it sucks for getting real work done 20:22:56 but i do not think there was a lack of thought put into integrating these various features 20:23:13 one reason C++ is often misunderstood is that people don't usually learn very much of it 20:23:30 they approach it as "C with some stuff" and learn various features as they go 20:24:02 when really, C++ was designed to be a high level language very different from C, which just embeds C as a foreign-function interface 20:24:14 Actually what I have seen in C++ there is many problems. I don't like that they removed the implicit (void*) cast, and the template syntax which uses <> is no good, and there is too many operator overloading, only some should be allowed overloaded. 20:24:31 yeah there are certainly many many features that are just bad 20:24:37 and a lot of syntactic ugliness from the embedding of C 20:25:02 You should make a new language called just "++" 20:26:19 These template and operator overloading and so on are not too bad but I think should be made in a more C-like way without <> for templates and without overloading [] and so on; if you use [] it should use the overloading unary * and binary + and allow typedefs (rather than classes) to specify the overloading and parameters and so on. 20:26:22 I guess I don't have much of an opinion but my feeling is just like, it's so complicated and tricky that it's really hard to understand 20:26:50 I just think C++ is the wrong way to improve C, and so is most of C99 and C11 also the wrong way to improve C. 20:27:14 zzo38: i agree that C++ is the wrong way to improve C 20:27:41 my feeling is mostly that smalltalk is nice and i wish c++ would have had a more message-passy model so that object-orientation wouldn't be the enterprise stereotype, but that's shallow 20:27:49 C++ is a totally different language with a different set of concepts 20:28:01 like any language, it has a foreign function interface to C 20:28:09 the syntactic nature of that interface is regrettable and causes much misunderstanding 20:28:42 kmc: Well, I suppose you are correct 20:28:55 another redeeming feature of C++ is that it's extremely unusual 20:29:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:29:06 so learning it well (not just as "C with crap bolted on") will expand your mind and make you a better programmer 20:29:12 But if they want to do that, there is more of the C stuff which needs to be changed in C++ since much doesn't fit 20:29:17 yeah 20:29:34 i would love to use a language with the same conceptual basis as C++ but a more modern syntax that doesn't try to embed C 20:29:37 I think kmc should fix my code. :( 20:29:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:30:09 C++ is the only language I know where objects are first class, not just references to objects 20:30:44 which motivates features like copy constructors, operator=, and now move semantics and rvalue references 20:30:56 just thinking about why these features are needed in C++ and not other languages is tremendously enlightening 20:31:34 One could argue that other languages not needing these is a good thing :-) 20:31:55 i'm not arguing otherwise 20:32:16 starting to believe this whole endeavour was fundamentally misguided 20:32:18 however C++ gives you a degree of control that you don't get in languages where objects are always by reference 20:32:18 Not that there is anything wrong with that, but trying to fit it into C-like syntax and semantics, and using < > for templates even though < > are normally binary operators and not brackets, are not so good. 20:32:32 in certain contexts, that control is very important 20:32:33 and anyway 20:32:34 it's cool 20:32:36 it's interesting 20:32:45 you should all learn C++ for the same reason you should all learn Haskell 20:33:13 It might be reasonable to make the programming language similar to C++ but not C, and then it would also be possible to make other improvements too. 20:33:15 it's also an important cautionary tale for language designers 20:33:15 the C++ standard is like 1000+ pages, right? prooooobably not the best way 20:33:57 Bike: Well, of course, you should not make it so complicated, either. 20:34:09 Bike: if you already know some C and C++ basics, http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq/ is a great way to get exposure to various interesting corners of the language 20:34:24 and i would be remiss if i did not also link to http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ 20:34:36 zzo38: i was referring to how i could learn the language 20:34:39 I remember that, the FQA is fun 20:34:40 and yeah, i'm aware of the fqa 20:36:16 Learning C++ from the standard is also problematic in that you would need a standard-compliant compiler to make best use of your knowledge :-U 20:36:39 "Anyone who argues in favor of one language over another in a purely technical manner (i.e., who ignores the dominant business issues) exposes themself as a techie weenie, and deserves not to be heard." oh snap, son 20:36:43 zzo38: favourite language? 20:37:30 Bike: "All languages suck. Find one that sucks less at the particular thing you want to do." 20:37:52 ? 20:38:09 @quote monochrom for the job 20:38:09 No quotes match. 20:38:12 @quote for the job 20:38:12 No quotes for this person. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. 20:38:15 My variation on the sentiment you quoted 20:38:16 @quote for.*job 20:38:16 ddarius says: "use the right platitude for the job" 20:38:20 oh, it was ddarius 20:38:39 heh. 20:38:59 ddarius, king of the mmedes and the ppersians? 20:39:10 *kking 20:39:48 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:39:56 «Now let's get real here. I'm not suggesting macros or arrays or pointers are right up there with murder or kidnapping. Well, maybe pointers. (Just kidding!)» *monotone* ha, ha, ha 20:40:01 :t flip ($) 20:40:03 b -> (b -> c) -> c 20:40:42 «yay guillemets» 20:40:55 is there a language where quaternions are included in the standard libraries? 20:41:31 POV-Ray has them IIRC 20:41:33 Bike: guys I am making a joke here! (it's a joke!) (you should laugh) (I wasn't seriously suggesting what you thought I might have been!!) 20:41:51 (It's a raytracer, but it includes a TC language) 20:41:53 yeah this whole faq is pretty that 20:42:16 something something mockery of business something 20:42:59 yeah the tone of the FAQ is frequently aggrivating 20:43:07 you might want to skip to the bits with code 20:43:29 The FQA guy seems particularly irate about the "changing private members necessitates recompiling users of the class" point. He only repeats it 350 times. 20:43:33 it's not as bad as jslint guy saying that the ++ operator is the top source of security holes in the world 20:44:15 hahah 20:44:19 * GreyKnight tries to think of a way to open any security hole with ++ 20:44:48 What does ++ do? 20:44:52 increment 20:44:58 ! 20:45:00 "The ++ (increment) and -- (decrement) operators have been known to contribute to bad code by encouraging excessive trickiness. They are second only to faulty architecture in enabling to viruses and other security menaces." 20:45:10 lol 20:45:10 N=5; N++; //now N is 6 20:45:16 crockford is full of shit 20:45:57 Tricksiest usage of -- I ever saw: 20:46:42 int N = 10; while( N --> 0 ) { /*...code...*/ } 20:46:53 Arrow operator :-D 20:46:58 that is wonderfully terrible 20:47:30 why would you do that 20:47:34 And terribly wonderful 20:48:04 And terrifyingly wonderble 20:48:05 Bike: IDK, maybe you hate maintainers? 20:48:19 int x = 0; int arr[5] = {0}; arr[x+++++x] = x+++++x; 20:48:23 //what does this code do 20:48:40 undefined behavior due to assigning a variable twice between sequence points? 20:48:42 depress me 20:48:42 Undefined behaviour 20:49:00 I love that one 20:49:13 try { return 1; } finally { return 2; } 20:49:25 buh 20:49:34 O_O 20:49:38 i'm going to say 2 but i'm not positive 20:49:45 is that defined behavior? 20:50:00 I put that on the whiteboard in work today to see if I could break anyone's brain :o) 20:50:09 -!- micahjohnston has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:50:23 probably depends on which language you're talking about 20:50:23 It's either undefined or illegal depending on the language 20:50:25 that sounds like a fun C++ language lawyer question XD 20:51:20 I suppose it depends on how final the finally really is. 20:51:34 but pretty sure it gives 2 in Java, in fuzzy terms finally runs between evaluating the return value and returning and can return another value if it wants 20:51:36 try {try again} 20:52:51 here's one i've seen in lisp before: (block buu (catch 'bar (return-from buu (eval '(throw 'bar 1))))) 20:53:35 there's a couple of bytecodes in Java added specifically to implement finally to allow nested finally clauses to work correctly and fun stuff like that 20:54:21 C++ doesn't have "finally" 20:54:43 oh, wasn't there a bizarre php bug report thread about finally 20:55:05 i think the response was "use RAII instead" or something 20:55:09 isn't that a special case of the bug that the php developers are all smoking glue? 20:55:17 heh 20:55:19 obviously, but still. 20:55:20 https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=32100 20:55:20 RAII in PHP? 20:55:34 «We've had long discussions and came to the only conclusion that we don't need that, for more search the mailing list archieves.» i'm convinced! 20:55:44 «And that design looks like Java where it unlike with PHP makes somewhat sense.» 20:56:39 «Basically, most good uses of finally are used for deallocating resources. Another way would simply be to design an object that represents the resource that automatically deallocates itself via the destructor.» yep, there we go. 20:56:57 heh 20:56:59 fun times 20:57:29 finally's Java and C# then? 20:57:29 i like the idea behind RAII but the amount of syntax you need to create a new resource-holding-thing in C++ makes it really painful 20:57:30 taken from "Stroustrup's C++ Style and Technique FAQ"! 20:57:56 Fiora: it's in both of them, yeah 20:57:57 "x+++++x" isn't undefined behaviour, it's a syntax error. 20:58:06 x++ + ++x isn't legitimate? 20:58:13 It parses as (x++)++ + x. 20:58:17 awwwww 20:58:17 in general I hated OOP until I learned Python and learned that you could use classes without creating a new file and a dozen lines of boilerplat for each one 20:58:18 There's a maximal-munch rule. 20:58:26 but that is a valid parse 20:58:29 You always eat as many characters as you can to make a token. 20:58:33 that reminds me of learning java 20:58:34 I guess that's to ensure the language is LL(1) or something? 20:58:38 Yeah, I was supposed to say a constraint violation. 20:58:38 or whatever the right one is 20:58:40 fizzie: pffffffffffffff 20:58:43 (Not a syntax error.) 20:58:46 javac yelled at me when i tried to name the files differently from the class 20:58:46 err 20:58:51 and i was like "why do you give a damn" 20:58:52 fiora: pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 20:58:55 C is context-sensitive 20:58:56 try again 20:58:56 python has 'finally' as well 20:59:06 for a while you could do 'try .. except' or 'try .. finally' but not both together :x 20:59:09 however that is fixed now 20:59:10 pff 20:59:22 kmc: I like C++'s approach 20:59:28 exception handling: arcane, apparently! 20:59:42 I don't remember my parsing termology bleh 20:59:42 oh god, wikipedia has an article "Exception handling syntax" 20:59:47 too long since that class 20:59:59 okay so, x++ + ++x; compiles with gcc 21:00:04 x++ +++x; doesn't 21:00:07 kmc: "fixed" ... did they get it right though? 21:00:08 GHC Haskell also has 'finally'; of course it doesn't need to be special syntax; it's an ordinary function 21:00:14 x+++ ++x; compiles 21:00:17 olsner: i don't know what it does in every weird corner case 21:00:31 Fiora: Sure, since the tokens for +++x would be ++ + x, and that's a syntax error. 21:00:43 fizzie: no it's not 21:00:46 it's a semantic error 21:00:47 GHC Haskell has another function "bracket" which is like Python's "with" statement, but again an ordinary library function 21:01:03 it says "lvalue required as increment operand" 21:01:05 coppro: Oh, okay, unary plus. 21:01:07 Fiora: obviously you should try compiling with every number of plusses from three to thirty and see what happens. 21:01:09 isn't there a unary prefix + operator in c++? maybe it can be overloaded 21:01:10 which I guess means it's trying to do... ++(+x)? 21:01:14 yes 21:01:16 Yes. 21:01:19 olsner: yes there is and yes it can :( 21:01:23 kmc: :D 21:01:25 also 21:01:40 ... huh 21:01:41 it's :) if you think about it as an esolang, :( if you actually have to use it 21:01:42 C++ lets you overload preincrement and postincrement operator++ separately 21:01:46 x-- ---x; also doesn't work 21:01:48 what 21:01:53 why would you want to 21:01:55 well they have different types! 21:01:56 --(-x) oh right! 21:02:00 because -x isn't an lvalue 21:02:01 right 21:02:01 what 21:02:05 can have, anyway 21:02:22 in some cases preincrement can mutate 'this' while postincrement needs to return a copy 21:02:46 fantastic 21:02:56 http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq/increment-pre-post-speed.html 21:03:16 anyway the *way* you overload them separately 21:03:23 and oh, so haskell has exceptions as a monad (if i'm reading this correctly), makes sense 21:03:24 is hilarious 21:03:25 http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq/increment-pre-post-overloading.html 21:03:34 "via a dummy parameter" 21:03:38 yes 21:03:44 god, why. 21:03:50 preincrement is Foo::operator++(), postincrement is Foo::operator++(int) 21:04:09 "If that's not immediately obvious to you" fuck off 21:04:15 Bike, it's Haskell. If it isn't an arrow, it's a monad 21:04:18 And arrows are monads 21:04:19 that's 21:04:20 not 21:04:20 true 21:04:21 shut 21:04:22 up 21:04:29 It's not true at all 21:04:33 Taneb: i don't even know haskell, and nonetheless What He Said 21:04:45 Bike: the "native" exceptions are thrown and caught with IO-monad actions, yes 21:04:46 The way they designed those kind of thing in C++ is terrible anyways. 21:04:55 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:04:59 there are some other monads that give exception-like control flow, implemented purely using functions 21:05:05 The same longest-parse lexer thing is why C++ templates need x< y > and can't use x> -- that would lexically tokenize as x < y < z >>. 21:05:07 kmc: wait, IO, what? 21:05:17 e.g. Either, ErrorT, and various third-party libraries 21:05:29 Maybe, Cont, ... 21:05:31 The idea is not particularly bad, but whoever design C++ must have had two conflicting goals and that must be why they messed it up. 21:05:32 Bike: the IO monad basically gives you a full imperative programming language embedded in Haskell 21:05:36 Oh 21:05:39 21:04:46 Bike: the "native" exceptions are thrown and caught with IO-monad actions, yes 21:05:42 So, weird naming then 21:05:43 you get IO, mutable variables, shared-state concurrency, exceptions, etc. 21:05:48 it is a bit of a historical name yes 21:05:50 that's also not true if you're referring to exception systems that are actually implemented 21:05:55 Haskell is the only language I know of that has seriously tried to unify "returning error codes" with "throwing exceptions". 21:05:59 (GHC recently removed the old exceptions system) 21:06:21 shachaf: how are they unified? 21:06:26 In Haskell, arrows are not monads, and not everything are arrows and monads. There are also comonads, categories, contravariant functors, applicatives, transformer, etc 21:06:43 coppro: I remember there was some specific thing about C that required context sensitivity... was it something involving like whether something was a typedef or a function name or something like that? 21:06:51 or is it just lots of things 21:06:54 zzo38, I was making a not-very-funny joke 21:06:55 Bike: If a function :: ... -> Maybe Foo returns Nothing, is that "returning an error" or "an exception"? 21:07:03 or maybe that was the lexer/parser mixing 21:07:03 oh, i suppose you could set up a monad that throws instead of just dumping Nothing 21:07:03 kmc: I think IO is actually the correct name for such thing 21:07:15 But you can do a lot of those things without IO, as well. 21:07:35 Fiora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lexer_hack 21:07:46 ahhh 21:07:49 still love that name 21:07:53 /the/ lexer hack 21:08:03 Fiora: see also http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2007/11/24/the-context-sensitivity-of-cs-grammar/, http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/05/02/the-context-sensitivity-of-c%E2%80%99s-grammar-revisited/ 21:08:10 shachaf: I would say it is just returning Nothing. However, if you treat it as the action-oriented monad, then it is like an error. 21:08:21 zzo38: Right. 21:08:21 oh there's even more http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2012/06/28/the-type-variable-name-ambiguity-in-c/ http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2012/07/05/how-clang-handles-the-type-variable-name-ambiguity-of-cc/ 21:08:40 shachaf: and to answer that i'd say it's returning an error code, but as I understand haskell you could set things up to make that "throw an exception"? 21:09:03 Bike: Well, "throwing an exception" is exactly the same thing, really. 21:09:36 If I say do { x <- thingThatCanFail1; y <- thingThatCanFail2; return (x + y) }, and either of those things fail (are Nothing), the whole computation fails (is Nothing). 21:09:37 oh wow, the hack is scope-sensitive too 21:09:37 you can have other-language-style exceptions if you feel like it, and they'd still be the same thing 21:09:40 but normally you don't bother 21:10:08 right, because that's how the monad is set up, yeah? 21:10:20 right, it's in the definition of (>>=) for that particular type 21:10:34 Yes. You can define how "do" behaves for your type, within certain constraints. 21:10:35 shachaf: I wouldn't write it that way but yes that is a way. I might use liftA2 21:10:43 zzo38: Yes but that's not the point. 21:11:01 and you could have a monad that's like Maybe but returns either Just [result] or Error [code], and have try/catch style on top of that pretty simply 21:11:08 yeah 21:11:09 Well, that you have Either 21:11:15 careful about using [] there 21:11:17 since that is list syntax 21:11:20 Meanwhile in Finland https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380205_10151148043401513_824523926_n.jpg 21:11:20 ugh 21:11:22 > do { Left 3; Left 4 } 21:11:24 Left 3 21:11:27 (that monad exists, btw -- Either) 21:11:27 i'm running out of metasyntax, elliott 21:11:28 help me 21:11:32 > do { Right 3; Right 4 } 21:11:34 Right 4 21:11:35 Never metasyntax I didn't like. 21:11:37 Left error vs. Right result 21:11:42 In C++ I like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_vexing_parse 21:11:43 heh there is a cute visual symmetry there :) 21:11:45 Bike: thankfully Haskell is its own metasyntax! 21:11:51 what does that mean 21:11:55 well 21:11:57 it doesn't mean anything 21:11:57 elliott: thanks for the links, those are really cool 21:12:00 noted 21:12:03 Bike: that's why i started using «guillemets» in #haskell 21:12:04 but it means you don't need to quote variables specially to talk about them :P 21:12:05 things that don't mean things are the bomb 21:12:09 You don't have to use Left as an error necessarily; you can also use it to mean that is the final result and no further calculation is required. 21:12:15 shachaf: awesome name at least 21:12:17 kmc: damn, i was just about to make a joke about that since i'ts how i usually quote anyway. 21:12:18 Fiora: really horrific :P 21:12:56 kmc: Do you have your right Alt key set up as AltGr? 21:12:59 no 21:13:00 i use compose 21:13:06 You should try AltGr! 21:13:08 It's great. 21:13:08 I use AltGr and Compose. 21:13:09 oh yeah, i was gonna set up compose because of your post 21:13:16 AltGr is great <3 21:13:17 and then i realized that i don't actually want to type in greek very often 21:13:20 since we're talking about awful syntactic corners of C++ i feel that somebody should bring up 'typename' and also that weird use of 'template' keyword 21:13:30 foo.template bar()? 21:13:32 I used typename in my Deadfish interpreter in C++ templates 21:13:37 what do guillemets mean in haskell? 21:13:40 * elliott cunningly works reference to the fact that he did that into ordinary sentence 21:13:40 elliott: it's interesting how like, you could probably make a tiny change to the language to make the problem go away 21:13:47 Hmm, maybe there's no Dvorak (AltGr deadkeys) by default. 21:13:49 I wonder why they designed it that way, or if they didn't realize it? 21:14:01 shachaf: yeah except I think foo needs to be a qualified name or something 21:14:14 i'd be pretty surprised if nobody had come up with altgr deadkeys dvorak, though 21:14:22 actually i think i know a guy who uses that... 21:14:44 http://eigen.tuxfamily.org/dox/TopicTemplateKeyword.html 21:14:53 elliott: what a waste of characters! typename is longer than class 21:14:54 * FireFly uses a localized dvorak variant with deadkeys and altgr 21:15:03 olsner: I don't think class would have worked? 21:15:06 oh maybe it was template I used 21:15:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#C.2B.2B_templates 21:15:19 Maybe and Either monads are not for catching errors; that is just one possible use of it. 21:15:28 i am aware, zzo 21:15:35 olsner: wait can you use "class" in the "typname C::t x" case? 21:15:43 Some people don't understand so well 21:15:51 ais523: "Not sure if this is where to say this, but you said to ask you." 21:16:05 Actually, even with continuation monad; continuations is just one possible use of it. 21:16:06 err, I was only thinking about the typename in "template " 21:16:07 well i don't actually know haskell, like i said, so i just pick things up from people talking about monads and types 21:16:08 ais523: I'm not convinced that [[0L]] is actually worthy of deletion, btw, although it's probably best to do it to comply with their wishes 21:16:15 yeah 21:16:26 ais523: it has identical /semantics/ to another language, but the whole point of joke languages is the joke itself, and 0L's is different to Nil's 21:16:26 the problem is that monads are talked about grossly out of proportion to their importance in haskell 21:16:33 so i've heard 21:16:50 elliott: hmm 21:16:53 perhaps merge? 21:16:53 kmc cleverly counters this problem by talking about them even more to point this out BURN??? 21:16:55 for all the hype, it's just a particular use case of operator overloading, with a little special syntax 21:16:56 Like I said, Haskell also has comonads and various other stuff too. 21:16:58 ais523: that seems weird 21:16:59 yeah basically elliott 21:17:00 belliott 21:17:02 the type stuff seems more interesting to me since i started thinking of Maybe as syntactic sugar for CPS 21:17:11 well not just Maybe I guess. whatever 21:17:17 you know what's even better syntactic sugar for CPS? Cont monad 21:17:19 Monads is just one possible mathematical structure. 21:17:38 >>= i think is the operator 21:18:00 What about Codensity monad?! 21:18:01 ion: is that a police reindeer? what use do they have for it? 21:18:02 ok, now i'm sounding dumb. so: why are monads such a "thing" in the dumbly making fun of haskell community 21:18:07 Well, >>= by itself does not define a monad you also need return. Or a monad can be defined by fmap and return and join. 21:18:15 i know zzo 21:18:24 was it that "monoid in the category of endofunctors" crack? 21:18:26 shachaf: Well, (Codensity (Const x)) is like (Cont x) 21:18:50 Is something with fmap and join but no return useful? 21:19:14 olsner: It is, and i don’t know actually. 21:19:22 Taneb: I don't know, but it isn't a monad. 21:20:07 Since they are certain kind of mathematical structures, there are certain theorems on it, and certain things that automatically work with anything having those features. This is also why monads can be defined in those two ways, why there is Kleisli category, why do-notation is possible, etc 21:20:35 i forget, what's the thing that's true of monads but not pseudomonads? 21:20:46 it's not pseudo 21:20:54 What? 21:21:02 well it is true that monads are not pseudo 21:21:05 but pseudomonads are definitely pseudo 21:21:09 what's the thing that's true of monads but not pseudoephedrine 21:21:10 (it's in the name) 21:21:15 i uh okay 21:21:22 this doesn't seem very complicated Bike 21:21:32 ;_; 21:21:42 i don't think "pseudomonads" are a thing Bike 21:21:49 kmc: I think I might have to give up on my nice syntax 21:21:53 it's something i read in a paper once. lemme double check 21:21:59 actually ugh I can't really 21:22:13 because i need this thingy to do the thangy 21:22:19 Bike: part of the monad myth (at least when it comes to haskell) is the vast number of bad "monad tutorials" getting posted by people who have suddenly grokked it and go on to (fail to) teach the world of all their wonders 21:22:28 (though I'm not sure that's what you asked) 21:22:53 ugh how do i paste here 21:22:55 Or "think they have suddenly grokked it and then post misleading things about boxes". 21:22:58 olsner: yeah i've read that thing too 21:23:10 stupid pdf, let me cutpaste! 21:23:48 by "not a thing" i mean not something that people generally talk about 21:23:56 i'm not surprised that some paper somewhere has defined that term 21:24:06 oh, well, duh 21:24:32 let's see, the cite for the theory is "How to Compose Monads". sounds riveting 21:24:42 hmm 21:24:45 maybe I can do the "fish" trick her 21:24:47 e 21:25:16 I guess there's some kind of feedback loop where that phenomenon makes newbies get the impression monads are SUPER IMPORTANT which causes them to continue the process and maybe write their own monad tutorial once they realize it's sort of trivial 21:25:19 "Which is more efficient: i++ or ++i?" going back to C++, why would you wonder about this? 21:25:32 did you read the answer? 21:25:39 olsner: yup yup 21:25:39 -!- glogbackup has joined. 21:25:48 yes 21:26:20 i just don't understand why you'd ask, it seems like it'd be an incredibly minor hiccup even in the case of running 286 Linux or something 21:26:33 If i++ and ++i is compiled into a LLVM code, it might be the same either way, I would think. 21:26:43 If it is as a statement by itself. 21:26:44 dude this is C++ 21:26:46 Bike: have you seen some beginner attitudes to performance 21:26:47 c++ coders just *think* that stuff is really important 21:27:06 elliott: yes but i'm temporarily shutting down my memories to avoid trauma. 21:27:18 it could be a monster object 21:27:25 it could be a 1000x1000 matrix that you are adding pointwise 21:27:27 hahahaha 21:27:31 operator overloading 21:27:36 yes, silly me 21:27:36 Does LLVM allow zero-length arrays? 21:27:37 it could be..... love 21:27:42 and then they go on to write code conventions where ++i must be used instead of i++ because PERFORMANCE 21:27:54 yeah what olsner is saying is also true 21:28:01 i actually write ++i anyway. i just, i don't remember why and i don't remember caring 21:28:02 they = the beginners with their attitudes to performance 21:28:19 i think we should have a contest to make up plausible but completely nonsensical cargo cult performance rules 21:28:24 of course when i learned C++ i was like fourteen and reading one of those 21 days books, so maybe i'm just doomed. 21:28:31 *"learned" 21:28:45 I never learned C++. :-( 21:28:58 kmc: you might be able to convince people that they should order their arithmetic properly to improve pipelining 21:28:59 NO POINTERS EVER, BECAUSE PERFORMANCE 21:29:00 you're in luck, kmc has been linking classes! 21:29:19 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Longjmp--FOR-SPEED!!!.aspx 21:29:35 those are not words i expected to see conjuncted olsner 21:29:58 "use longjmp instead of loops to increase speed" 21:30:33 this channel hurts me. 21:30:35 wait wtf 21:30:38 the normal short jumps are just not optimized for long calculations 21:30:54 you should use SSE2 128-bit jumps 21:31:09 SSE2 doesn't even have control transfer instructions :< 21:31:40 Yes, that's only available in AVX2. 21:31:43 (Finally.) 21:31:43 shachaf: i wonder if longjmp makes system calls to change the signal mask 21:31:50 ... AVX2 has control transfer instructions? @_@ 21:31:52 kmc: Nope. 21:31:55 Well, not last time I checked. 21:31:59 Or maybe there were two variants. 21:32:02 Fiora's pipeline convention sounds good to me! 21:32:05 I know it has the weird simd loads 21:32:16 but that still requires manual jumps and stuff 21:32:22 There's sigsetjmp() and siglongjmp(). 21:32:51 Once upon a time I investigated this and ended up sticking with our own code. 21:32:56 Fiora's rule isn't satisfactory because it would require people to acknowledge that CPUs do something other than execute instructions directly from memory one at a time in order 21:32:58 kmc: is it bad if i have a five-parameter typeclass 21:33:12 kmc: but partial knowledge of complex systems is great for cargo culting! 21:33:19 kmc: longjmp() doesn't really help you make portable coroutines because there's no primitive for setting up a stack. 21:33:20 elliott: that's bad and you should feel bad 21:33:28 kmc: ok but 21:33:30 kmc: it's important!! 21:33:35 class Each i s t a b 21:33:46 it's worse than each 21:33:50 elliott: I recommend taking inspiration from classy-prelude 21:33:52 Does LLVM have primitives for setting up a stack? 21:33:54 They have plenty of those. 21:34:01 i feel bad about having that view of CPUs :< 21:34:08 oh wait 21:34:12 it's actually six-parameter kmc sorry 21:34:26 elliott: you should feel 20% worse 21:34:27 LLVM does support a few different kind of exceptions handling. 21:34:28 Oh, these days you can see the context switching code in RethinkDB. 21:34:33 Hmm, they're adding x86 support? 21:34:53 better watch out before you end up having to enable the MassivelyMultiParamTypeClasses extension 21:34:53 despite fiora's efforts to move me from "6502, one at a time" to "x86, bizarre instruction sludge that somehow goes very fast" 21:34:55 class CanMapFunc ci co i o | ci -> i, co -> o, ci o -> co, co i -> ci where 21:34:59 :( 21:35:02 XD 21:35:08 "bizarre instruction sludge that somehow goes really fast" 21:35:09 CanHazMap 21:35:23 NihilistDandy: CanMapMFunc is a lot like Each 21:35:23 shachaf: you stab Each of them?! 21:35:31 class Elliott u s t a b 21:35:37 FireFly: you only get A stab. 21:36:14 https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/blob/next/src/arch/runtime/context_switching.cc 21:36:28 I have programmed in 6502 assembly language. 21:36:33 kmc: http://pastebin.com/JkJcsn46 21:36:39 i read metroid once, that's about it for me >_> 21:36:50 That looks like a bit of a mess. 21:36:51 i know next to nothing about cpu architectures 21:36:53 which upsets me 21:37:13 There are somethings things that can be done with it if you already know the value of some register or status flags, to reuse them, or to reorder things to make the program efficient. 21:37:15 Fiora: you misspelled "multiplication". also, oh god you witch 21:37:20 haha 21:37:22 Maybe we can convince people to "optimise" their code into 1000-line functions. OH WAIT 21:37:23 Fiora: I don't like how that uses C to demonstrate things, since the compiler is free to reorder all that stuff 21:37:29 well this can partially be true in some cases, yeah? 21:37:29 * FireFly goes back to studying his (amongst other things) CPU architectures test tomorrow 21:37:36 except it's the compiler's responsibility to order instructions and not yours 21:37:39 exactly 21:37:43 that's why it's totally silly cargo cult 21:37:45 elliott: the joke is that it's dumb, yes 21:37:56 but we all know that C is "close to the machine" and the compiler just emits one assembly instruction per semicolon 21:37:56 oh ok then 21:38:01 of course. 21:38:05 I have implemented ARCFOUR in 6502 assembly language, but without a key. 21:38:07 oh i didn't actually like 21:38:09 read the text 21:38:18 text is hard 21:38:21 that might have helped me realise it was meant to be wrong 21:38:24 sorry XD 21:38:34 yes i blame you directly for me ignoring half the linked context 21:38:36 content 21:38:43 kmc: always use comma instead of semicolon: that allows the compiler to merge them into one assembly instruction when possible 21:38:44 "An open-source, distributed system." rethinkdb nominated for least helpful repository description in history 21:38:58 maybe i should write something based on my own non-field. how to use eval to speed up your code 21:39:02 olsner: oh god now I'm imagining writing like, the worst guide to this ever 21:39:07 it feels terrible yet so satisfying 21:39:28 Bike: do it 21:39:32 Also Fiora 21:39:48 Maybe I can pull an Sgeo: 21:39:49 macros: let me show you how to write fortran in lisp 21:39:53 Fiora: Bike 21:39:55 Will GNU and LLVM automatically correct that http://pastebin.com/JkJcsn46 code if one way is faster than another? 21:40:04 GreyKnight: what huh 21:40:14 zzo38: the compiler's ordering is pretty much unrelated to the order you write things in, I think 21:40:22 since it goes into the compiler as just a big tree of SSA instructions 21:40:23 I am imitating Sgeo: Sgeo Sgeo 21:40:27 Bike: Fiora 21:40:28 well, it has to track sequence points, doesn't it? 21:40:29 Fiora: I died. Make more cargo for the cult. 21:40:36 "oh, you wanted to compute the value *before* you returned it?" 21:40:40 btw Cargo Cult is the Burning Man 2013 art theme 21:40:47 i mean, i don't know where all the sequence points are anyway, but 21:41:53 FireFly, do it the Haskell way instead! Possibly never compute it! 21:42:01 zzo38: dunno how *well* they do it, but reordering instructions to optimally fill pipelines is important for in-order cpus so compilers do as much of it as they can 21:42:09 Does anyone actually use classy-prelude? 21:42:36 What about classy-prelude-conduit?! 21:42:42 what about classist-prelude 21:43:00 What about class-warfare-prelude 21:43:08 is that like objectivist C# 21:43:09 the history of haskell is the history of class struggle 21:43:35 That's a no. 21:43:46 Hm do we have any objectivist esolangs? 21:43:54 i'm shocked that nobody has made this joke yet 21:44:01 GreyKnight: rand(); 21:44:05 A = A; 21:44:11 given the popularity of puns in the Haskell Community 21:44:18 @google "objectivist c#" 21:44:19 No Result Found. 21:44:20 NihilistDandy: GreyKnight: c.c for both of you 21:44:22 bite me 21:44:32 i think it's "objectivist C" 21:44:39 by analogy to, y'know, objective C 21:44:39 keep it classy: don't mention the class struggle 21:44:45 Could not deduce (TC q xs0 ts ctx0) arising from a use of spec' 21:44:45 from the context (TC q xs ts ctx) 21:44:49 * elliott sigh 21:44:59 Is c.c an unusual smiley or a particularly terse source file name? 21:44:59 @google "objectivist c" 21:45:01 http://fdiv.net/2012/04/01/objectivist-c 21:45:02 Title: An Introduction to Objectivist-C | fdiv.net 21:45:03 elliott: unsafeCoerce? 21:45:06 wow, i fucked that up. 21:45:12 GreyKnight: it's a great name for a self-hosting c compiler 21:45:13 olsner: doesn't work so well for typeclass constraints IME 21:45:14 but also 21:45:20 it's eyes looking away in shame 21:45:21 or something 21:46:35 «"by reference" may slow down the code due to aliasing problems, forcing the compiler to actually spill values to memory in order to pass them to the code of an inlined function!» this fqa is scaring me a tad 21:46:40 worth it for Fountainheader.h alone 21:47:16 `welcome GreyKnight 21:47:18 Atlas.sh 21:47:18 GreyKnight: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:47:22 hm 21:47:27 I think I might turn on PolyKinds just for convenience 21:47:30 elliott: What's the " and deployment" for? 21:47:57 * GreyKnight deploys shachaf 21:48:05 Also PolyKinds is annoying. 21:48:08 Bike: and the alternative "by value" may slow down the code at least as much due to copying the data 21:48:10 It messes up my pretty-printing. 21:48:13 getting befunge used in production code, like our buddy befunge here 21:48:18 er. fungot. 21:48:18 Bike: syntax-case is not the terminated one, it assumes you at least a dozen implementations. 21:48:19 Prelude> data Foo k a = Foo 21:48:20 Prelude> :i Foo 21:48:20 data Foo k k k a = Foo -- Defined at :6:6 21:48:45 olsner: that's in the previous clause, yeah. 21:49:22 elliott: um, for learning about arch stuff I really liked Agner's stuff. and the official optimization guides are pretty nice too for explaining the different stages of the architecture and stuff 21:49:31 http://agner.org/optimize/ 21:49:50 3) and 2) are the main relevant ones I think, since 4) is just a reference 21:49:57 i wish i could find an assembly hacker who didn't write and webdesign like they lived in the early 90s 21:50:05 * Bike looks sidelong at fiora 21:50:09 w-what >_< 21:50:11 yeah I should probably read stuff 21:50:15 but it's work 21:50:16 I don't even have a webpage unless my tumblr counts... 21:50:18 I wrote a bootsector once, enough????? 21:50:21 i hear reading is popular these days 21:50:30 it even went into long mode I think 21:50:37 elliott: Was it as good as kmc's? 21:50:38 elliott: how much did you copy-paste from other sources? 21:50:41 I never managed to run kmc's. 21:51:01 elliott: This was my arch textbook: http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Organization-Design-Fourth-Architecture/dp/0123744938 21:51:04 olsner: approximately 90% 21:51:07 i like how the sizes are just numbers 21:51:33 Though I gather that this is better: http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Fifth-Edition-Quantitative/dp/012383872X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y 21:51:36 how many books on arch are there anyway? i had that same boo. 21:51:38 book 21:51:49 I had an arch class but we didn't have a textbook 21:52:14 and then there was the extra advanced arch class where the professor was like drawing a mips processor on the board and like "oh, we need exceptions, let's draw in some wires here" 21:52:15 you just had to stare down the chips 21:52:24 Bike: Not many, I imagine. 21:52:30 http://www.amazon.com/Optimizing-Compilers-Modern-Architectures-Dependence-based/dp/1558602860 there is this 21:52:32 but then I hit an assignment where I had to pipeline a mips chip. in verilog. and I kind of had to drop the class 21:52:37 though i haven't read it, because textbooks cost "money" 21:52:53 "torrents" 21:52:56 i guess it's about low-level compilery stuff though. dependency ordering n shut. 21:53:06 finding textbooks on torrents is hard. 21:53:28 speaking of rabbits, they apparently tried to intentionally introduce a usually-fatal virus into australia's rabbit population to kill them off 21:53:40 Depends what books. I tend to get updated versions of books that I've already bought. 21:53:43 "Download this book from Usenet" or 21:53:59 well, this is a book on compiler design targeting microarchitecture, not Thomas's Calculus, you know? 21:54:08 the long-term effect seems to have been that australian rabbits are now mostly immune to that virus 21:54:10 Hahaha 21:54:34 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:54:49 is it "thomas'" or "thomas's", hm 21:54:57 Who cares. I hate that book. 21:55:02 thomases's 21:55:04 I've been using Spivak on my own 21:55:11 thoma's 21:55:21 I'm a math major, not a damned engineer 21:55:28 *Who cares? 21:55:29 srsly though it's thomas's 21:55:31 thomas is engineer oriented? 21:55:36 *thomas's's's 21:55:50 Not enough proofs, too much "think about it like a balloon" 21:55:55 i had an engineer-bent book for diffeq, it was depressing 21:56:06 haha 21:56:34 (later i found out that diffeq is An Engineering Thing regardless and math people just lump it in with calculus?) 21:57:00 Yeah. I have to pretend to know diff eq for my chaos class next semester 21:57:15 Fiora: oof 21:57:17 But I'm just gonna do weird math and then make Mathematica do it. 21:57:19 how many pipeline stages? 21:57:34 nihilistdandy: it's basically a bunch of memorized (or in ew tables) rules for solving equations that don't actually come up in practice, apparently 21:57:55 That's what my engineer roommate says, too :D 21:57:57 There are a few randies in the comments of the objectivist C article, no hilarious meltdowns though 21:58:16 mostly in the class i was busy wishing i knew how to make a CAS do the work for me 21:58:54 NihilistDandy: hm you *may* need to actually know differential equations for chaos theory stuff 21:59:17 well they'll need to know what they are 21:59:17 It will be fun 21:59:21 GreyKnight: All homework and take-home tests. I will learn it as I go, if I must. :D 21:59:27 not so much the... wow, i don't even remember any of the method names 21:59:32 kmc: it was the standard risc pipeline I think 21:59:41 fetch, decode, ALU, memory, retire 22:00:13 I want to make a fully-specified objectivist language, but I have a problem 22:00:21 it was terrifying though. like we had an entire verilog mips chip thrown at us and I had almost never used verilog before 22:00:39 I realized at that point that the class, though advertised as a CS elective, was actually an engineering class and they really didn't tell the CS people what they were getting into <_> 22:00:43 GreyKnight: Then you don't want it hard enough. 22:00:56 but the class was still so much fun, I loved learning about things on like a wire by wire level 22:01:28 I would probably need to read up in order to find the right bits to make fun of, and my stomach isn't strong enough to survive one of Rand's books 22:01:35 the main memory i have of arch class was the professor bringing in a vax internals "manual" he xeroxed illegally and bound with pieces of his girlfriend's jeans 22:01:50 nice guy 22:02:01 bound with... wait, what? 22:02:03 .... what 22:02:19 I third that what 22:02:29 well, he got it from an official technician, and copied it himself so he could use it obviously 22:02:34 'splain 22:02:44 Not the what part, obviously 22:02:46 but it was big enough to be a boo, so he grabbed some of his girlfriend-at-the-time's old jeans and made a makeshift book out of it 22:02:51 a book. stupid keyboard 22:03:20 jeans + paper = book 22:03:25 it was full of circuit diagrams and stuff. he used it to write binary search in microcode. 22:03:51 wooow 22:04:06 This sounds like the plot of a Sierra game 22:04:15 how? 22:04:32 Jeans + paper = book 22:04:36 oh right 22:04:38 Did he have a cat hair moustache too? 22:04:45 i'm not a bookmaker person, ok 22:05:37 -!- ogrom has joined. 22:05:52 GreyKnight: depends whether or not he was a motorcyclist I suppose 22:06:23 i paid more attention to the machine stuff than to the jeans stuff, geez 22:06:30 Don't go bringing gambling into this 22:07:23 i got your first old man whathisname reference, not so much this one. 22:07:28 We didn't exactly mistake this place for #bookbinding either yanno :-P 22:07:42 omg it almost works 22:07:49 #esoteric, home of everything but esolang discussion 22:08:31 Fiora: that's terrifying 22:08:53 the MIT intro processor architecture class (taken by most CS people) is pretty neat 22:09:04 i did the labs for that 22:09:12 did a 2-stage pipeline but anything more makes my head hurt 22:09:28 quickly learning this approach was a mistake 22:09:34 that's really cool that they have most people take it 22:09:39 since this was just a side elective thing 22:09:59 shachaf: I was wondering if you could replicate that IRC spambot thing using custom HTTP methods from XMLHttpRequest 22:10:00 our only required arch class was basically just memory, basic asm, debugging, stack smashing, how floats work, optimization... 22:10:01 elliott is on an emotional rollercoaster 22:10:01 mit's always had EE and CS pretty integrated, hasn't it? 22:10:03 nothing, like, /wires/ 22:10:19 Fiora: maaaaan my class didn't even cover floats, i even asked ;_; 22:10:30 Bike: that's because floats are insane 22:10:30 but chrome forbids the port and firefox tries to do some cross origin request verification thing, which fails 22:10:42 Bike: yeah, it is the same major 22:10:49 ais523: yes, he basically said "we won't have time to cover everything but as a general rule don't jesus christ" 22:10:54 why would you want to know more about floats 22:10:55 Real Programmers implement floats in the type system anyway 22:10:55 this class (6.004) uses a simple gate-level digital logic simulation 22:10:56 that's close to what I say too 22:10:59 nowhere near as hairy as verilog 22:10:59 but I go into detail if anyone asks 22:11:04 but you do wire up individual gates 22:11:11 it's a bit lower level than verilog really 22:11:19 maybe float programming should be a separate degree 22:11:20 Bike: ouuch though what level was yours? ours was like a junior-level class ish 22:11:26 i think sophomore 22:11:27 and compilers require proof before letting you use floats 22:11:30 elliott: "numerical analysis" 22:11:41 ais523, do you tell stories about floats around the campfire on Hallowe'en? 22:11:51 no, I don't use campfires 22:11:55 Fiora: also i was at a shitty side campus and the prof was fairly recently out of school. 22:11:59 ah :< 22:11:59 *I don't own a campfire 22:12:01 FireFly: there was a brief discussion about compiling some bad optimization tips ... still not an esolang but at least some kind of "unuseful programming" 22:12:05 * ais523 almost broke a meme 22:12:08 I mean, I liked him 22:12:12 there was this little elective thing I did where we worked on like, laying out actual transistors and wires by hand 22:12:15 instead of like, verilog 22:12:25 olsner: fair enough 22:12:30 we were apparently tasked with the smaller parts of a larger (senior) project to make an RSA chp of some sort 22:12:35 * GreyKnight looks confusedly at ais523 '~' 22:12:35 Fiora: hand you some silicon and some acid and tell you to go nuts 22:12:41 but we learned how to lay out wires and transistors in... um... 22:12:46 I think it was called Electric 22:12:50 and dealing with all the design rules and stuff 22:12:53 it was actually really fun 22:13:06 hmmm 22:13:13 these overlapping instances are not good 22:13:17 FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 22:13:30 elliott, I think it needs more unsafeCoerce 22:13:34 http://www.staticfreesoft.com/ScreenShotBusy.png 22:13:42 it was kinda crazy 22:13:47 `addquote FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 22:13:50 865) FireFly: oh, did you see ion's police reindeer? that was ... at least as on-topic as this discussion 22:14:00 Fiora: wow, it looks like an architecture class. like the kind with buildins. 22:14:04 buildings 22:14:15 * FireFly didn't see any police reindeer 22:14:21 Bike: it is a building! 22:14:24 a very very very very small building 22:14:26 :P 22:14:39 hm. considering how big computers were back in the day, i'll betcha there were buildings and microarchitectures designed at the same time at some point 22:14:57 i don't get it. buildings are still designed?? 22:15:05 are we in cyberspace now 22:15:19 i remember hearing the first soviet mainframe was in some dilapidated cathedral in ukraine 22:15:27 and when they turned it on it made half the building a sauna 22:15:46 we had a freshman lab where you fabricate LEDs and transistors and shit 22:15:48 mostly shit 22:16:05 transistor fabrication? seriously? 22:16:05 using the equipment that the labs had thrown out 15 years ago 22:16:29 I was going to say; it's not that freshmen can't understand that, it's that the equipment needed for it is too expensive and specialised 22:16:30 yeah, by the end of this 10 week freshman lab course, you nominally have fabricated a transistor 22:16:34 *jellus* 22:16:37 they mostly did not work though 22:16:37 do they actually /work/? 22:16:40 and the class was pass-fail 22:16:43 * ais523 knows how to make a transistor in theory 22:16:47 i think probably 5% - 10% of them worked 22:17:09 we had a very crude photolithography setup 22:17:12 http://youtu.be/w_znRopGtbE 22:17:12 random fun fact: in theory, transistors are symmetrical, you can swap the emitter and collector and they still work 22:17:16 kmc: wow O_O 22:17:20 doing photolithography in class 22:17:21 omg 22:17:27 in practice, they normally work better in one direction because there's no real market for invertible transistors 22:17:29 It's just like making a very tiny sandwich, except out of silicon :-U 22:17:37 Fiora: I've done photo-etching of PCBs 22:17:38 and some deposition furnaces 22:17:50 but that's way less expensive, you can get the required material for a couple of hundred pounds 22:17:52 all i can think of is the video i saw of a guy smelting tin with a campfire. 22:17:55 the only remotely coolish thing I ever got to do was making holograms 22:17:56 some contraption that pulls a vacuum and then uses mucho current to vaporize some gold next to your wafer 22:18:02 guys stop making me feel like i am missing out 22:18:11 a lot of the class consisted of trying not to pour hydroflouric acid on your hands 22:18:15 elliott: it's OK, you're younger than we were when we did these things 22:18:19 (i need some kind of credible threat. deleting a brainfuck derivative??) 22:18:30 so you can still make choices that allow you to do these things in the future 22:18:32 ais523: hey, you don't know how old kmc is 22:18:35 I don't know how old kmc is, in fact 22:18:43 a brainfuck derivative based on photolithography, let's do it 22:18:44 elliott: he said "freshman", which implies at least 18 22:18:46 for the LED the masking was wax applied with a toothpick 22:18:48 and now I am reminded of destroying one of my shirts in chemistry lab with nitric acid <_<;; 22:18:49 in pretty much any university 22:18:50 i was 16 as a freshman actually 22:18:55 Oh no. Please, not the BF derivatives. Please, leave them alone. 22:18:55 but yes most people were 18 22:19:01 Fiora: that must have ben kind-of embarrassing 22:19:01 oh god kmc is like cosman 22:19:04 '_' 22:19:11 super genius 22:19:18 shrug 22:19:24 american public school middle school is super useless 22:19:26 I have a disability where I occasionally have nasty attention lapses 22:19:31 ais523: it was only enough to make like a small hole 22:19:32 they had to have someone watching me in chemistry lab 22:19:34 being able to skip two years of that is not a great sign of intelligence 22:19:34 american public school is super useless? 22:19:36 to make sure I didn't do anything stupid 22:19:37 but I mean, enough to consider it destroyed 22:19:53 it's mostly a sign that your parents gave a shit and were willing to push for it 22:20:02 kmc: my solution was to go a year ahead in several subjects, then do a year of more subjects in what should have been my final year 22:20:06 also i took some high school science classes when i was 12 or so 22:20:09 which was... interesting 22:20:20 it gave me an extra year in school, more AS-levels than usual, and a reasonably empty timetable 22:20:21 my parents didn't want me to skip too far ahead because they figured i'd be undersocialized. that sure worked out 22:20:26 haha 22:20:33 * Fiora patpats Bike 22:20:36 was the best time of my life so far, and probably always will be (and I realised at the time it was the best time of my life) 22:20:42 that's cool ais523 22:20:47 then I got into esolang development a year later 22:20:51 that was fun too 22:21:00 I don't have nearly as much free time now as I did then, though 22:21:14 actually, I think I discovered esolangs that year 22:21:21 someone sent me a link to the 99 bottles of beer website 22:21:47 Don't worry Bike, you get to hang out with us? >_> 22:22:12 irc, noted haven of within-sigma, well-adjusted human beings 22:22:13 We're *like* cool people. In a way. 22:22:24 Had I known any better, I'd have dropped out of high school at 16 and gotten my GED 22:22:48 Bike: we're better-adjusted here than most of IRC? I hope, at least 22:23:15 NihilistDandy: American? 22:23:20 my experience with "most of IRC" is people yelling about anime, and that happened here yesterday. check and mate 22:23:21 yup 22:23:24 This is probably the sanest channel I've seen 22:23:36 GreyKnight: depressing, isn't it? 22:24:28 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:24:54 '_' 22:25:09 Is that supposed to indicate that your face has been mutilated or what? 22:25:28 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: var kings=new Array(3); for (x in kings) { kings[x].origin='orient'; kings[x].bearingGift=true; kings[x].travelled='afar'; }). 22:25:30 i think the 's are eye sockets 22:25:49 yeah i agree that being "socialized" involves having the right kind of people around 22:25:53 "impassive face" 22:25:53 what language is impompatic's quit message? JavaScript? 22:26:03 like a lot of antisocial loner nerds become gregarious when they go to a place like tech school 22:26:05 Looks like JS 22:26:07 ais523: I guess so? 22:26:08 i think so yes 22:26:17 new Array(3) 22:26:28 but you shouldn't use "for (x in y)" without a hasOwnProperty check! 22:26:36 Also var and for(x in kings) 22:26:54 otherwise you end up iterating through all the methods of Array too and up its prototype chain 22:27:08 sigh 22:27:12 i am just going to cps it 22:28:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: zzznxxxrkc?). 22:28:23 javascript is a toy language that escaped the lab, like most popular languages 22:28:34 but it's closer to the kind of toy language i would have designed as a student, so i have a certain affection 22:28:37 even though it's pretty gross 22:28:42 JS has a lot of nice features 22:28:50 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: 22:28:54 fklghjgkjh 22:28:57 i like that thing where typeOf null is 'Object' or whatever 22:28:59 this works with type synonyms why not with type families 22:29:03 also where types are indicated with strings i guess 22:29:05 Shall I quote your C++ speech back with names changed? :o) 22:29:09 the thing where foo[3] is foo['3'] and foo['x'] is foo.x... this makes me think like "cute feature for a toy language, but you shouldn't do it for real" 22:29:27 ugh, it coerces numbers to strings? 22:29:42 GreyKnight: I need to go home, can you mention Feather so I can make it look like a ragequit? 22:29:44 well maybe not with that Array type 22:29:47 oh and javascript numbers are all floats anyway, aren't they 22:29:50 but in general, objects are key-value mappings 22:29:54 Bike: yeah 22:29:58 and the keys are all strings 22:30:04 barf 22:30:15 a lot of websites will break if you register a user named hasOwnProperty 22:30:38 ooooh 22:30:38 hahaha 22:30:39 I bet I can cheat 22:30:43 or __proto__ 22:30:46 hm 22:30:47 or can i 22:30:50 that is brilliant 22:30:53 -!- kmc has changed nick to __proto__. 22:30:56 oh,that's the prototype of an object? 22:30:57 -!- __proto__ has changed nick to kmc. 22:30:59 bah registered 22:31:00 yes 22:31:03 since it has some weird Self thing going on 22:31:11 kmc: also Freenode's ircd probably isn't written in JS 22:31:14 I did it on #acehack, it's funnier there IMO 22:31:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:31:16 ais523: you think? 22:31:17 OK 22:31:19 bye everyone 22:31:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:31:38 kmc: i think you broke ais523 22:31:42 if i mention feather now, do the properties of feather mean that, retroactively speaking, it did make him ragequit? 22:31:51 Some codes I have seen will put a space at front so that it doesn't cause those problems 22:31:53 kmc... crud, I should try to figure out how not to break. Not sure if my code breaks, but ... that seems like a PITA 22:32:13 I guess you're saying if I store users as keys on some object, the object might behave weirdly? 22:32:17 Do you like this music? http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc/PADsynth/demos/noefx_organ_choir.ogg 22:33:25 That code I have seen which did that, was a not a webpage, but it doesn't matter either way that is how you can do, put a space at front of the keys. 22:33:38 Sgeo: and then you have a user whose name is a key the object already has 22:33:50 :( my code is vulnerable 22:34:10 isn't your code something that uses php for local communication or something 22:34:15 i think maybe it was already vulnerable 22:34:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:35:02 Sgeo: we can rebuild it. We have the technology. 22:35:23 in the latest whiz bang version of ECMAScript there are associative data structures you can use 22:35:51 «Ben Nadel demonstrates that the hasOwnProperty() method is more consistent than Javascript's IN operator; the major difference being that...» see "consistency" seems like a weird-ass standard 22:35:53 http://www.devthought.com/2012/01/18/an-object-is-not-a-hash/ 22:36:12 it's not a fucking chaotic system, it's javascript! 22:36:37 . o O ( JS isn't a chaotic system? ) 22:37:04 well it ought not to be, in happy pony danceland. 22:37:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:38:19 http://www.bennadel.com/blog/1919-Javascript-s-hasOwnProperty-Method-Is-More-Consistent-Than-The-IN-Operator.htm blaghaghagh 22:38:44 wow that photo 22:38:46 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 22:39:06 "And, of course, as Ben Alman pointed out, you can always use the typeof() function to check the type of objects you are dealing with before making use of the IN operator." 22:39:09 oh joy 22:39:11 Object.create(null) looks good 22:39:19 mwahaha so many good exploits in this book 22:39:20 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:39:57 kmc: the ecmascript standard? 22:39:58 embed an image in a web forum which is served from your server, which responds with 401 Unauthorized 22:40:01 no 22:40:02 this websec book i am reading 22:40:21 the user will see a password dialog and enter their forum password 22:40:27 drat, i'll have to rework that joke 22:41:05 "Great article, however this danger only applies if you use obj.hasOwnProperty(prop) instead of a simple obj[prop] check, e.g. if you need to work with nulls" welp. 22:41:06 Is prepending "user_" in front of user names internally a good way to deal with the issue? 22:41:10 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:41:42 That post seems to think so, at least 22:41:44 "dude, I didn’t even read the article lol… but this site design is great! i especially like the good use of circles." 22:42:08 It would stop them conflicting with standardly-inherited properties, seems like it should solve it 22:42:39 "I especially like the good use of circles" is going to be a phrase now 22:42:47 Sgeo|web: as i understand, you're good until a new builtin property user_hasOwnProperty shows up 22:43:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:43:09 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 22:43:09 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:43:12 Bike: lol web community 22:43:34 I wonder if Clojure maps are safe from this or not 22:43:49 Where those store data, exactly 22:44:06 pretty sure no language but like js and lua suffer from this dumbness 22:44:09 is clojure OO prototype-based? (i doubt it, i don't think that would work great with the jvm) 22:44:14 I thought Clojure was on top of the JVM? 22:44:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:44:56 Erm 22:45:04 By Clojure I meant ClojureScript 22:45:06 I am a derp 22:45:11 22:45:13 wtf is that 22:45:23 * kmc takes a shot 22:45:44 A Clojure-like language that compiles to Javascript 22:46:12 elliott: lua's tables are actually empty by default, so you'd have to go out of your way to fall down this sort of hole 22:46:40 isn't there that metatable stuff 22:46:51 'patatable 22:47:19 mutatable 22:47:25 Metatable fields are separate from the actual fields (partly to avoid exactly this problem) 22:47:40 'pataprogramming sounds like fun 22:48:04 i suppose that would be like if javascript object prototype fields were separate from the actual fields. 22:48:11 in which case, we return to my earlier "welp" 22:48:58 kmc: oh, javascript doesn't even wrap thrown strings in some SimpleError class or w/e, huh 22:49:13 I didn't understand the earlier "welp" 22:49:19 now you do! 22:49:21 -!- ogrom has joined. 22:49:41 alternately, i was just thinking about the earlier bike-pretends-to-understand-monads halfconversation 22:50:02 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:50:22 I don't :< 22:50:36 -!- tswett has left. 22:52:14 then i'm afraid you are unworthy. 22:52:34 ;_;~~~~~~~~~~~ 22:56:13 @quote 22:56:13 dxq says: i am not a very quotable person 22:56:23 lies 22:56:39 -!- carado has joined. 22:57:51 ! 22:57:52 it works! 22:58:01 :-o 22:58:12 oh 22:58:13 no it doesn't 22:58:21 :-S 22:58:25 Couldn't match type `Head [Bool] bss0' 22:58:25 with `(':) Bool 'False ('[] Bool)' 22:58:38 The rollercoaster continues 22:58:47 i'm just going to guess that this is actually your attempt to upgrade the wiki, and it's just gone terribly terribly wrong. 22:58:53 hahahahahaha 22:59:36 "damn, my port of ghc to php isn't properly taking javascript booleans into account" 22:59:48 If upgrading the wiki has led to wacky adventures in Haskell typespace then we've gone straight through "terribly wrong" and out the other side 23:00:41 Bike: well I have at times considered just reimplementing mediawiki in haskell because of how awful it is to maintain 23:00:52 Do it 23:00:59 has nobody done that yet? 23:01:03 well it would be awful 23:01:04 so no 23:01:09 well, written a wiki, anyway, mediawiki proper would be terrible to port 23:01:12 why would it be awful 23:01:29 I'll help with my sub-mediocre Haskell skills 23:01:39 ooh 23:01:40 did I fix it 23:01:55 Bike: do you know how to shot Haskell? 23:02:09 !! i did 23:02:28 i've never shot haskell in my life 23:02:31 isn't he dead..., 23:02:52 gmap :: (('[x,y] ?? ts) bss) => (forall z. Spec ts z z) -> (x,y) -> (x,y) 23:02:52 gmap f (a,b) = (spec f a, spec f b) 23:02:54 : D 23:03:12 Haskell motherlover, do you speak it?! 23:03:42 "motherlover"? ewgh 23:05:00 bowdlerisation gone wrong 23:05:02 father mocker 23:05:05 this is what happens when you find a stranger in the alps 23:05:19 `addquote "damn, my port of ghc to php isn't properly taking javascript booleans into account" 23:05:22 866) "damn, my port of ghc to php isn't properly taking javascript booleans into account" 23:06:00 oh shit I need some way to change types I think 23:06:06 ...ok let's not go down that route 23:06:21 elliott: commit current code first! 23:06:28 oh hm... this needs some way of representing order too 23:06:30 GreyKnight: commit?? hahahaha 23:06:39 i don't even have a directory 23:06:41 this is all going into ~/tmp 23:06:52 Either it needs committed or else you do :-P 23:07:25 been there done that 23:07:33 hmm this might break when i add the type family :( 23:09:05 Bike: let's make a wiki in Haskell 23:09:34 Or, in befunge 23:09:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:09:39 there's already haskell wiki software 23:09:56 "Yesod (web framework)" what is even going on with haskell naming 23:10:16 "House is an acronym for the Haskell User's Operating System and Environment" okay nevermind, it's the same as usual. 23:10:26 elliott: If we can make a befunge wiki can we replace the mediawiki installation with it?!? 23:10:39 oh shit it doesn't even recursively drill down yet 23:10:48 if we can make a befunge wiki i'm pretty sure we'll be able to take the world hostage 23:10:56 Bike: an anagracronym 23:11:10 yesod is a hebrew word 23:11:13 hth 23:11:23 oh, i should find that wiki i found written in shell again, primarily because what 23:11:32 I just tried to pronounce anagracronym and nearly bit my tongue 23:11:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:12:45 Bike: Yesod means foundation, but it cannot also be translated as "I am Snoyman, *smash*" 23:12:50 *can 23:12:52 hahaha 23:13:31 House is a Haskell OS?!? 23:13:40 GreyKnight: "OS" 23:14:00 In that it is a system that operates. But it's not what you'd call an operating system. 23:14:04 Or "glorified shell"? 23:14:14 it says it's experimental, which in operating system terms means it doesn't work 23:14:38 there's always that haskell-verified (TM) L6 kernel instead, anyway 23:14:55 make that L4. 23:15:24 that didn't actually use haskell did it 23:15:28 L5 and I'll throw in this pen 23:15:29 oh they prototyped it in haskell 23:15:54 haskell was involved, and that's what's important for the marketing copyo! 23:15:55 copy 23:16:19 COPYO 23:16:33 MOST EXCEPTIONAL XEROX ANDROID 23:16:35 don't mock me :( 23:17:09 YOU MOCK COPYO?! COPYO WILL SHOW YOUR BUTT TO YOUR BOSS! 23:17:17 copyo, n. When you accidentally highlight something and copy it into your clipboard, overwriting something you already had stored there. 23:17:45 I do that 50 times a day 23:18:13 You should be more careful 23:18:29 Started using clipboard history, and now I still do it but it takes longer to use the history than to just go an recopy the other thing. 23:18:36 *and 23:18:50 * GreyKnight shakes head sadly 23:19:14 hmmmm 23:19:18 looks like i have to redesign this stuff 23:19:29 yaaaay 23:19:37 oh hm maybe i can cheat!! 23:20:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:20:19 it's like you're already a webdev 23:20:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:21:05 fac :: Int -> Int 23:21:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 23:21:54 Cycle in class declaration (via superclasses): Gen -> Gen 23:21:56 you know, greyknight, i think the first rule of modern language design is actually "fuck php" 23:22:04 never before have i felt such despair 23:22:06 Bah I can't be bothered finishing this joke 23:22:09 just throwing that out there 23:22:39 ?> 23:22:39 Maybe you meant: . ? @ v 23:22:40 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:22:50 The first rule of modern language design is "You don't talk about modern language design" 23:27:48 `quote 23:27:49 331) Finally I found the wand of electric lightning now we can destroy any large object if it needs to be destroyed and is required to use a such a wand for that purpose. 23:28:51 It's sentences like that which make me think zzo38 might be a machine 23:29:21 that is a brilliant sentence 23:30:53 `quote 23:30:54 369) "system is fairly sane imagine if the roomba was called the Robotic Magic Vacuum would you object to that being trademarked I mean phrase trade" oops 23:31:17 you know, i think the first rule of modern language design is actually "fuck up" 23:31:20 wat 23:32:23 kmc: have you ever used the IceChat client? 23:33:50 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:35:54 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:36:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:39:10 At this poijnt I'm kind of tempted to wipe Windows 23:43:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:45:19 no 23:45:19 why 23:47:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:47:07 kmc: hi 23:48:03 helliott 23:53:16 -!- sgeo has joined. 23:54:13 kmc: Doesn't XMLHttpRequest never let you make a cross-domain request? 23:54:41 Oh, you said more than the one line /last showed. 23:56:10 At least I now have a real IRC client 23:58:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:59:19 :t gmap 23:59:21 Not in scope: `gmap' 23:59:21 Perhaps you meant one of these: 23:59:21 `map' (imported from Prelude), 23:59:24 :t Data.data.gmap 23:59:25 Couldn't find qualified module. 23:59:25 :t Data.Data.gmap 23:59:27 Not in scope: `Data.Data.gmap' 23:59:33 @ty gmapT 23:59:35 Not in scope: `gmapT' 23:59:38 @ty Data.Data.gmapT 23:59:40 Data.Data.Data a => (forall b. Data.Data.Data b => b -> b) -> a -> a 2012-12-13: 00:00:21 :t mkT 00:00:23 Not in scope: `mkT' 00:00:26 :t Data.Data.mkT 00:00:27 Not in scope: `Data.Data.mkT' 00:00:29 ugh 00:01:08 @ty Data.Generics.mkT 00:01:10 (Typeable b, Typeable a) => (b -> b) -> a -> a 00:01:30 @hoogle mkT 00:01:31 System.IO mkTextEncoding :: String -> IO TextEncoding 00:01:31 GHC.IO.Encoding mkTextEncoding :: String -> IO TextEncoding 00:01:31 Data.Typeable mkTyCon :: String -> TyCon 00:02:14 > Data.Data.gmapT (Data.Generics.mkT (\(x::Int) -> x+2)) (3::Int) 00:02:15 Not in scope: `Data.Data.gmapT'Not in scope: `Data.Generics.mkT' 00:02:21 kghdfkjsghdfkljsg 00:03:34 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:48 > Data.gmapT 00:03:50 Not in scope: `Data.gmapT' 00:03:54 > D.gmapT 00:03:55 Not in scope: `D.gmapT' 00:04:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:07:12 -!- sivoais has joined. 00:07:50 I wish I understood CL's condition stuff well enough to understand how Factor's differs 00:08:23 what's to understand 00:08:55 > over biplate (\(x::Int) -> x+2) (3::Int) 00:08:57 5 00:09:47 How to define what happens when a restart is chosen (that's set in CL using some macro, I think?) 00:10:23 you just bind a thunk to the restart name. 00:10:35 Factor's system is basically: When you throw, include a bunch of strings and values, the throw will, if a restart is chosen, return one of the values 00:11:43 http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-throw-restarts%2Ccontinuations.html 00:12:29 I don't actually see a real mechanism to catch these :/ 00:13:17 :t over biplate 00:13:18 (Data.Data.Data t, Typeable b) => (b -> b) -> t -> t 00:13:24 it seems like cl's, except that in cl you can do arbitrary actions instead of just returning a value. 00:14:01 oh, and you can't define handlers? I don't see any, and it talks about the top level. 00:14:22 shachaf: does biplate act like gmapT there though 00:14:32 I'm wondering whether gmapT map over the "root" 00:14:40 Well, the debugger talks about :res which calls restart 00:14:54 http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-recover%2Ccontinuations.htmloh, there we go. 00:15:10 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 00:15:40 Bike, it's still not clear from that how that would be used to resume 00:15:44 I think 00:16:17 AFK 00:16:50 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 00:19:36 I don't think it can be 00:21:07 yeah, the debugger page seems to imply you can only resume from well, the debugger. 00:21:45 The debugger's written in Factor (I assume) 00:21:50 So there has to be a way 00:22:16 http://goatkcd.com/1146/sfw [nsfw] 00:22:30 you assume. 00:22:49 http://docs.factorcode.org/content/word-restart%2Ccontinuations.html oh duh, :res has the implementation right there. 00:23:22 "/sfw [nsfw]" 00:23:37 yup 00:30:35 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:35:02 i guarantee you that it is less sfw if you remove "/sfw" 00:35:07 also less funny and more gross 00:45:56 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:49:15 wait 00:49:24 does gmapT f x run f on x first 00:49:27 or on its children first 00:49:29 maybe i should ask #haskell 00:50:33 maybe you should test it 00:50:40 that sounds like work 00:51:04 but okay 00:51:45 Prelude Data.Data Data.Generics> gmapT (mkT (\(xs::[Int]) -> reverse xs)) [1,2,3,4::Int] 00:51:48 [1,4,3,2] 00:51:50 i don't get it 00:52:10 [1,2,3,4] -> [1,2,4,3] -> [1,3,4,2] -> [2,4,3,1] I would have understood 00:52:21 Not with gmapT 00:52:41 ok I admit I have no idea what semantics gmapT actually uses, it baffles me 00:52:53 Prelude Data.Generics Data.Data> everywhere (mkT $ do reverse :: [Int] -> [Int]) [1,2,3,4::Int] 00:52:58 how come if you do 00:53:07 gmapT (mkT (\(x::Int) -> x+3)) (4::Int) 00:53:10 it applies it to the whole 4 00:53:14 but here reverse doesn't get applied to the whole list 00:53:21 wait 00:53:24 it doesn't apply +3 to the 4 00:53:31 ok then 00:53:48 so it applies the transformation to all the immediate children, and not itself 00:54:03 I guess you can build everywhere from gmapT? 00:54:28 \f -> f . gmapT (everywhere f) apparently 00:54:38 Have you seen the SYB documentation? 00:54:44 These slides are good: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/hmap/Boilerplate%20v3.ppt 00:55:00 I've read them but then I forgot it all. 00:55:13 I sort of hate how all the SYB machinery is crap at implementation hiding. 00:55:15 So read them again? 00:55:23 So you end up writing code depending on the implementation details of all the types you're using. 00:55:57 i like that we now live in a world where the Pope tweets things and immediately gets responses like "@Pontifex you are a huge bummer, dude" 00:55:57 elliott, Phantom__Hoover Fiora udpate 00:56:42 Bike, the big question is how does it manage to catch the exception. I think 00:57:27 hm can you even give a default definition for an ATF 00:57:28 sgeo: that seems to be what Recover is for. 00:57:43 ...it occurs to me that just because recover's stack effect says something, does not mean it cannot use restart, especially since restart will resume a continuation 00:57:54 oh you can 00:58:06 Bike, I was taking recover's stack effect too seriously 01:00:04 waiting now for the Pope to do a Reddit AMA 01:00:05 kmc: btw I ended up fixing that (??) I pasted 01:00:05 type family (??) (xs :: [*]) (ts :: [*]) (bss :: [[Bool]]) :: Constraint 01:00:06 type instance ('[] ?? ts) bss = () 01:00:06 type instance ((x ': xs) ?? ts) bss = (bss ~ (Head bss ': Tail bss), (x ? ts) (Head bss), (xs ?? ts) (Tail bss)) 01:00:11 imo this is perfect 01:00:13 elliott: oh well it's all clear now 01:00:27 ?? 01:00:42 less of a type family and more of a type frenemy 01:00:42 the bss is basically a "variable supply" here that the typeclasses can hang the type equality results off 01:01:02 but you avoid passing it a bunch of type variables explicitly by having it constrain that there must be a bunch 01:01:25 slowly coming to terms with the fact that I am a genius 01:01:30 we all are 01:02:35 this (??) stuff doesn't infer terribly well though; I might have to make it a typeclass instead 01:02:39 which is ok 01:05:29 shachaf: what's a pirate's favorite locale? 01:06:24 meh 01:06:29 this typeclass version seems to infer worse 01:06:32 arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr_SO.UTF-8 01:08:27 the problem is mainly in the list deconstruction 01:10:07 shachaf: did you see http://overstated.net/2007/02/01/san-francisco-guide-to-new-york-neighborhoo 01:10:12 er 01:10:14 http://overstated.net/2007/02/01/san-francisco-guide-to-new-york-neighborhoods 01:10:52 "Wherever Giuliani put it" 01:12:41 btw i could avoid all this hackery if there was a type equality type family 01:12:51 but there isn't 01:12:52 and that sucks 01:14:37 ooh 01:14:49 maybe I can use a restricted TypeEq that doesn't give access to the result 01:18:17 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:18:17 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:18:23 coool, it works 01:18:25 *cool 01:18:25 -!- variable has joined. 01:18:28 hm 01:18:31 I bet this is inefficient though 01:18:59 if i may venture a question 01:19:03 what the hell are you doing 01:19:29 Bike: I am so deep in this mess I have no idea how to explain it to another person 01:19:57 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:19:57 my commiserations 01:20:08 Bike: I can assure you I have no practical use for it though 01:20:30 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:22:09 oh, I think I broke it again 01:22:32 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 01:22:37 that was a given 01:23:19 If I'm going to play with Factor, I should probably download and install it 01:25:37 shachaf: Does SYB support doing things like reversing every list in a structure, regardless of the element type of the list? 01:25:40 I forget. 01:25:42 Maybe I should read the docs. 01:26:39 I'm not sure. 01:29:50 I just thought of a fun/evil use for lmgtfy 01:30:33 Suppose I want to encourage some online community to vote on some online poll 01:30:38 *Main> everywhere bleh "hello world" 01:30:39 "ello worldh" 01:30:40 Prelude Data.Generics> everywhere (mkT (reverse::String->String)) "hello world" 01:30:43 "el oldrwolh" 01:30:45 I think i did it wrong. :( 01:30:56 If I link directly to the poll, it will show up in the logs that I linked them 01:31:03 (We're assuming the online community is web-based) 01:31:24 elliott: this system is fucking mystifying 01:31:44 If I use a referer stripper, it will look suspicious that so many people knew the exact URL of the poll 01:31:52 Bike: I have a 270 line source file that only mystifies it further 01:31:52 elliott: Well, it reverses the list but then descends into its children. 01:32:03 So, link to the Google search results, this way it looks like all these people googled for it 01:32:21 But, if they come from the same Google search URL, that would also look odd. So... hm 01:32:23 > over biplate (reverse::String->String) ("hello there", 1, "hi") 01:32:25 ("ereht olleh",1,"ih") 01:32:37 time to remove that g from your nick, sgeo 01:32:38 oh, my "everywhere" was actually "every two wheres" 01:33:00 everywhere f x = spec f (gmap f x) 01:33:07 I'll need to make it actually transform Specs, I guess 01:33:11 Actually, lmgtfy results in a google search page, but that search page would also have a suspicious URL 01:33:17 which is sort of hard 01:33:22 So so much for lmgtfy helping 01:46:30 :t Data.Data.gmapT 01:46:31 Data.Data.Data a => (forall b. Data.Data.Data b => b -> b) -> a -> a 01:48:02 Factor won't start :( 01:51:28 isn't it a dumbassproof one file thing 01:52:02 oh you know wwhat, as long as elliott is reaching new frontiers into digging holes type safely, nother dumb haskell question 01:52:16 i'm guessing any real compiler is going to have some kind of structure to represent types. is that true? 01:53:06 As opposed to what, not representing types in any structure? 01:53:53 just asking. 01:54:14 that is true 01:54:30 It seems true but I'm not sure I understood the question. 01:54:33 k 01:54:35 it will have structures to represent types, functions, modules, etc. 01:54:39 all the stuff what makes up a program 01:54:50 that's true of any compiler, not just haskell compilers 01:55:14 well, would say a C compiler need something to represent "int"? 01:55:22 yes 01:55:36 as opposed to just skipping over the word "int" wherever it appears? 01:55:56 no, just, having some kind of structure with information about int-ness doesn't seem necessary to me 01:55:59 a C compiler needs to be able to represent types like "pointer to pointer to int" and "pointer to function which takes three floats and returns an int" 01:56:09 oh, that's true 01:56:29 sure, you could have a compiler where primitive types are represented by bare integers 01:56:38 int = 1, float = 2, char = 3, whatever 01:56:57 but you need to represent also composite types like arrays and functions and pointers 01:57:14 and structs 01:57:16 as well as qualifiers such as signed/unsigned, const/volatile/restrict, etc 01:57:17 structs are types!! 01:57:19 yeah 01:57:22 right 01:57:28 also functions themselves, not just pointers to, are types 01:57:29 so, badly considered question. thanks 01:57:49 data VagueApproximationOfACType = Int | Char | Ptr VagueApprosdfjoisdType | Struct [(String,VagueAOoisadjoijknCpttypke)] | stuff 01:58:00 great code 01:58:01 elliott: Functions! 01:58:34 is there a language that shines by its lack of typing? 01:58:36 you can do: typedef int f(float); f* p; 01:58:51 there are languages with only one type 01:58:57 Is kmc one of the people who says "type* value;"? 01:59:02 shachaf: sometimes 01:59:18 Arc_Koen: for example in shell the only type is string pretty much 01:59:34 I was thinking more something like "C where every variable is a union" 01:59:37 in perl, types are not so much a property of variables as how you decide to use them 01:59:41 oh 01:59:49 that doesn't really mean not having types 01:59:50 an *unchecked* union? 01:59:57 i mean, the whole point of that would be casts... 01:59:58 I like the thing where you can say (********p)(x). 02:00:06 ? 02:00:07 not sure what unchecked means, but yeah, I guess 02:00:09 Arc_Koen: forth 02:00:35 you get a stack of machine words and what they mean depends entirely on what you do with them 02:01:01 by words you don't mean the same thing as forth words right? 02:01:02 even a string literal (actually implemented in forth itself) just pushes an addreses and length on the stack and the string operations consume that 02:01:06 actually maybe it pushes something else, I forget what 02:01:13 I mean machine words i.e. an integer of a certain size 02:01:16 ok 02:01:20 "size of a pointer" 02:01:24 x86 has 32-bit machine words, x86-64 has 64-bit machine words 02:01:34 yeah that makes sense 02:01:41 elliott: You need more Microsoft in your life. 02:01:50 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 02:01:57 Hmm, or Intel. 02:02:27 what, to confuse the meaning of "word"? 02:12:37 -!- monqy has joined. 02:18:07 of course for intel words are 16-bit! 02:18:23 and 32-bit is a dword and 64-bit is a qword and 128-bit is a doublequadword (not an octoword) 02:18:26 and 256-bit is a quadquadword 02:18:34 or actually no 256-bit is a doubledoublequadword 02:18:36 I think 02:18:39 that sounds about as dumb as quavers 02:18:55 quavers? 02:19:06 hemidemisemiquave 02:19:18 is a sixty-fourth note, in music 02:19:24 ohhh 02:19:28 omg 02:19:41 intel is actually made up of musicians 02:19:50 what are you, some alien with the absolute ear? 02:20:21 oh I read quavers as quakers 02:20:29 and I thought Bike just really hated them friends 02:20:32 or the porridge I guess 02:20:57 oh 02:21:21 I believe I have some of those somewhere in the house and it's pretty cold here and it's a damn good diea 02:21:22 idea 02:21:24 thank you 02:21:27 np any time 02:22:02 no i'm cool with quakers 02:24:37 I'm sure it's possible to write a throw-restarts like thing that does quotations instead of just returning a value 02:24:42 ...actually, hmm 02:26:28 sgeo: you have call/cc, you can do whatever the hell you want 02:26:56 -!- augur has joined. 02:27:43 I'm just not sure that the stack effect could be made to work 02:34:40 doubledoublequadword animal style 02:35:40 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:37:27 lddqu, "load double double quadword unaligned", does not actually load a double double quad word 02:37:37 http://twitter.com/Pope_ebooks yessssss 02:37:50 the wisdom of crowds has brought this to me 02:38:17 why did the pope have to make a twitter account to get an _ebooks 02:38:23 pretty sure the pope has said other things in the past already????? 02:38:38 yes but were they in a machine/idiot-readable format 02:38:41 still prefer the pope's main twitter feed 02:39:08 i still think you have to give him credit for picking a cool name 02:39:13 the vatican has obviously cracked open the Big Book of Catholic Platitudes 02:39:21 how many names are there that (a) sound cool and (b) are pop-related 02:39:23 *pope 02:39:27 that (c) are free 02:39:32 i don't think that pope made it up 02:39:45 come on Phantom__Hoover you know people were telling him to go with The_Pope_Official_Vatican or some shit 02:39:47 "PopeBenedictXIV" is kind of boring 02:39:50 but he was having none of that 02:39:53 am i missing something here 02:40:17 http://twitter.com/pontifex 02:40:26 http://twitter.com/PopeBenedictXIV looks like some silly imitator or something 02:40:30 oops 02:40:36 he should make his name xXxPoPeBeNeDiCt-XIVXxXx 02:40:36 @TheP_Rizzle_Fo_Shizzle 02:40:37 Unknown command, try @list 02:40:39 "Any suggestions on how to be more prayerful when we are so busy with the demands of work, families and the world?" 02:40:46 pope asks for input on twitter 02:40:46 oh, well, pontifex is "just" latin 02:40:55 he kind of has an easy out there, i mean, everything sounds cool in latin 02:41:04 if he starts tweeting in pontifex cipher i will be impressed 02:41:06 it's latin for 'maker of bridges', at that 02:41:16 maybe the pope just really loves him some bridges 02:41:29 Phantom__Hoover: hahaha wow i didn't even notice that 02:41:43 was the pope properly briefed on this twitter thing beforehand 02:42:00 i wonder if papal infallibity extends to twitter 02:42:14 unlikely, it's pretty hard to accidentally use it 02:42:19 these days the infallibity only kicks in on special occasions 02:42:30 it's just like freenode 02:42:43 you might have operator privileges but you don't op up unless shit is getting real 02:43:05 the pope is of course known for his intervention in realistic shit situations. 02:43:14 /mode +o pontifex etc. etc. etc. 02:43:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Conditions_for_teachings_being_declared_infallible 02:43:21 apparently it only applies in specific cases 02:43:29 "is predecessor Pope John XXIII once remarked: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible"." 02:43:32 *his 02:43:43 that sounds like something zzo38 would say 02:43:53 i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks 02:44:03 theology tends to make one similarly robotic at times 02:44:04 I like that response, it's like "this doctrine is dumb" without actually saying "this doctrine is dumb" 02:45:54 This pope likes hexadecimal. 02:45:59 This pope is an advanced TI-BASIC programmer. 02:46:22 this pope is your pope / this pope is my pope 02:46:43 "The limitation on the pope's infallibility "on other matters" is frequently illustrated by Cardinal James Gibbons's recounting how the pope mistakenly called him Jibbons." 02:46:46 pffffff 02:46:54 i put some onions inside my trousers 02:47:20 are you going to take them out? 02:48:14 nom 02:59:30 I also read somewhere that the Catholics who do not agree of pope infallibility are called Old Catholics. 02:59:45 kmc: I have no ebooks which can subscribe to 03:00:45 it's one of a few reasons old catholicism split, yeah 03:01:23 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:01:52 Of course not all of the popes agree of pope infallibility either; some of them were against it, but some were for it. 03:02:34 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:09:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:10:35 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:12:07 -!- augur has joined. 03:19:02 kmc: You should make a Twitter account of zzo38 quotes. 03:19:59 -!- sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:21:22 -!- sgeo has joined. 03:22:47 `addquote i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks kmc: I have no ebooks which can subscribe to 03:22:55 867) i would subscribe to @zzo38_ebooks kmc: I have no ebooks which can subscribe to 03:24:02 zzo38: Do you have a newsletter? 03:24:14 `quote 03:24:14 `quote 03:24:14 `quote 03:24:15 `quote 03:24:15 `quote 03:24:16 386) pikhq, living in the future sucks. The past just keeps coming up to us and trying to make us feel guilty. 03:24:16 703) the possession of diamonds by the bourgeois is more about establishing their bourgeoisness more than wanting a malleable metal oops i forgot i said diamonds instead of gold 03:24:16 642) shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? No. whew we don't have room for more esolangers there. oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland? no Whew. We don't have room for more esolangers there. 03:24:17 170) Hmm. I want to try vanilla extract now, but I don't want the alcohol 03:24:17 760) hack and back? works on anything much slower than you at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes 03:24:26 zzo38, there is a Twitter account called horse_ebooks which appears to be a spam account, and says bizarre and hilarious things quite often. 03:25:00 "This Is Your Golden Opportunity To Build Yourself An Endless Line Of HOT PRODUCTS In Your Name And Make A Fortune From Existing" 03:25:09 shachaf: I don't publish a newspapes. 03:25:15 monqy: I used mephitic cloud once. 03:25:18 `quote 03:25:20 191) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) 03:25:52 I think Scrabble for Racists is still my favorite. 03:26:08 OK, then play Scrabble for Racists. 03:26:30 Are you insinuating something about me, zzo38? 03:26:34 I would play Professional Octopus of the World. 03:27:15 best of horse ebooks: http://favstar.fm/users/Horse_ebooks 03:27:41 can't we just read horse_ecomics? 03:28:01 kmc: Don't you feel bad about how it gets you to look at advertisements? 03:28:05 no 03:28:33 I look forward to an era of advertisers giving up on ads, and giving me endless co-opted-dada entertainment instead. 03:28:49 where did Scrabble for Racists come from? 03:28:58 also zzo38 can you generate some more random game names 03:29:02 because those two are pretty great 03:29:17 you know that an octopus does not have direct control of its arms 03:29:26 it sends them general instructions and waits to see what they do 03:29:33 could be a good card game mechanic 03:30:30 kmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ChY6bCULLY 03:30:31 OK, then. 03:30:42 If you want those name you can just use the same program. 03:30:48 i want to make a fortune from existing 03:30:57 It is one of the FurryScript archive files. 03:32:02 one-dimensional chess 03:32:55 `quote 03:32:55 `quote 03:32:55 `quote 03:32:55 `quote 03:32:55 `quote 03:32:57 359) It's a Toy Story character, you uncultured fuck. 03:32:57 597) http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED 03:32:58 651) .Ah. 03:32:58 384) Phantom_Hoover: nope, I removed . from the current directory 03:32:58 191) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) 03:33:13 `delquote 651 03:33:13 whoa! this must be a sign 03:33:15 1:13: steve brule impression? 03:33:17 ​*poof* .Ah. 03:33:35 kmc, oh, that's awesome. Before I clicked the link, I thought it was manually curated horse_ebooks quotes 03:34:13 pff, manually. the cloud can rate everything. 03:34:23 the wisdom of crowds. 03:34:28 slash clouds 03:34:38 frash prugin 03:34:44 what a shocking bad hat! *laugh track* 03:34:46 Oh come on, past a certain point it wants me to get a pro membership 03:35:00 a pro membership to a retweeter 03:35:08 the future is a beautiful place slash time slash cloud 03:36:05 slash balls 03:36:26 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 03:37:36 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:40:12 -!- Lumpio- has joined. 03:40:53 Bike: is this a special kind of future which occurs in the present 03:42:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1C9Q5JheOE yes. 03:42:33 i am just made of youtube videos today. 03:44:50 cloud 03:44:57 do you mean like, the earth just VAPORIZED?? 03:45:15 Bike: is the telltale sam and max stuff any good 03:45:21 can you be more precise as to whether that's the near future or the distant future 03:45:27 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:45:30 just so I know how much time I have to tell that girl I love her 03:45:45 elliott: well i like the songs but i'm not much of an "actually playing video games" type 03:49:27 Bike: thank you for your extensive input 03:49:49 np 03:51:51 I've heard they're really good but I've only played like two of them 03:52:16 they're very silly and very funny adventure games 03:52:43 * elliott played the original LucasArts one ~a billion years ago. 03:53:21 they also don't tend to have totally absurd impossible to figure out puzzles 03:53:35 like cat moustaches 03:53:53 What's the matter with cat moustaches?! 04:01:47 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:08:24 i wonder how many people have actually played that game 04:08:51 What game? 04:09:37 Gabriel Knight 3. 04:09:52 I thought we were talking about Sam 'n' Max 04:10:06 The game the cat moustache thing is fom. 04:10:08 from 04:10:09 @let sam'n'max :: Bounded a => (a,a); sam'n'max = (minBound,maxBound) 04:10:11 Defined. 04:10:21 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 04:10:37 > uncurry (+) sam'n'max 04:10:39 Ambiguous type variable `a0' in the constraints: 04:10:39 (GHC.Enum.Bounded a0) 04:10:39 ... 04:10:40 > uncurry (+) sam'n'max :: Int 04:10:42 -1 04:11:16 what? 04:11:23 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 04:11:25 Undefined behavior, Bike. 04:12:07 the horror! 04:12:25 (Wait, is it?) 04:12:41 Oh, maybe it's not. 04:12:50 "sorry" 04:13:23 I wonder whether MedeaMelana saw my recent Reddit comment. 04:13:32 That doesn't seem like a very sincere apology! 04:14:06 Bike: Once in 2003 someone made a really, really sincere apology. 04:14:15 It's so sincere that I just quote it instead of making my own. 04:14:19 I have no hope of matching that one. 04:14:28 Gosh. 04:18:45 fnow :: Monoid m => m -> FHM m a a 04:18:46 fnow m k d = k (\m' -> d (m <> m')) 04:18:46 flater :: Monoid m => (a -> m) -> FHM m b (a -> b) 04:18:46 flater am k d a = k (\m' -> d (am a <> m')) 04:18:46 frun :: Monoid m => FHM m m a -> a 04:18:48 frun fhm = fhm ($ mempty) id 04:20:53 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:23:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:23:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:32:23 `quote 04:32:23 `quote 04:32:24 `quote 04:32:24 `quote 04:32:25 205) yay CDE 04:32:25 710) Stupid W|A doesn't even understand "Vatican papal density". (As far as countries go, they've got a quite high one.) 04:32:26 400) Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement 04:32:26 436) australia kicks ass we have kangaroos and DMM and isn't afraid of anything 04:32:26 `quote 04:32:28 473) software patents strike again that's got to be at least three times, now are they out yet? 04:32:51 205? 04:33:10 `delquote 205 04:33:15 ​*poof* yay CDE 04:33:18 205 is good. 04:33:23 Oh. 04:33:25 Why? 04:33:28 (what's the point of asking if you're not going to wait for a reply?) 04:33:33 I waited for a while. 04:33:36 No response. 04:33:43 you waited for 20 seconds 04:33:45 Please `revert as appropriate. 04:33:50 They were 20 long seconds! 04:33:51 too lazy 04:33:55 What's CDE? 04:34:13 Common Desktop Environment? 04:35:23 yes 04:36:04 So what's good about 205? 04:36:58 should i be surprised that iti got the quote / meme wrong 04:37:01 no 04:37:05 the answer is no, i should not 04:37:15 kmc: why else would it be in the qdb 04:37:58 `quote kmc 04:38:00 602) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 633) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. \ 705) damn i should make a quasiquoter for inline FORTRAN \ 708) has there been any work towards designing programming l 04:38:25 that's a lot of cocks. 04:38:59 `pastequote kmc 04:39:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found 04:39:05 `quotepaste kmc 04:39:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quotepaste: not found 04:39:10 ok how do i do this 04:39:31 `pastequotes kmc 04:39:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24302 04:41:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:44:26 `quote 04:44:27 `quote 04:44:27 `quote 04:44:27 `quote 04:44:28 388) elliott: by the way, you're now almost capable of crawling. 04:44:28 488) lets not wander around the mulberry bush beating our heads 04:44:29 268) it is from 2002 though, I was younger then 04:44:29 536) Just goes to show, the Beatles are more interesting than green vegetables. 04:44:29 `quote 04:44:31 738) I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL 04:46:24 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 04:55:24 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:58:44 `pastequotes zzo38 04:58:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23331 05:00:11 zzo38: Have you considered using Twitter? 05:00:48 wow, why would you even need zzo38_ebooks with that haul? 05:03:56 zzo38: I tried to connect to gopher://zzo38computer.org/ but it says Not Found. 05:05:18 Yomi is a card game that simulates a fighting game. It tests your ability to predict how your opponents will act and your ability to judge the relative value of cards from one situation to the next. Also, it lets you do fun combos and be a panda. 05:05:53 I understand World of Warcraft let you do that too, now? 05:10:12 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 05:16:29 `quote 329 05:16:31 329) I figured out something about C program. If you use ? : a lot then you don't need as much parentheses but it makes it more difficult to understand. 05:18:38 shachaf: It does? 05:18:40 Let me see. 05:19:07 It works on my computer. Try adding a 1 after the / at the end see if that works better. 05:19:33 The 1 was added automatically. 05:19:37 Doesn't work with two clients I've tried. 05:20:22 Arc_Koen: That is correct it is how Yomi card game is played. Well, it is a bit more complicated than that, but it is not extremely complicated rules. 05:20:37 zzo38: Are you seeing my requests? 05:21:24 shachaf: I can't tell, because you have a cloak. 05:21:53 zzo38: Are you seeing any requests? 05:22:04 Yes, from mf60536d0.tmodns.net 05:22:10 My requests aren't coming from the same IP address as my IRC client, anyway. 05:22:17 OK, that's probably me. 05:22:20 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 05:22:20 O, OK. 05:22:43 When it is not found, my server responds "File not found"; does it say that or "Not Found"? 05:23:26 --- [1] File not found 05:23:40 Error: File not found 05:23:54 Can you try to see exactly what your computer is sending? And then we can see which side is wrong. 05:24:15 It works with every client I have tried. 05:24:24 O, I have idea: 05:24:27 Disable Gopher+ 05:24:40 I tried two clients. 05:24:42 gopher and forg 05:25:00 I don't know what Gopher+ is or how to disable it. 05:26:03 Does it work with netcat? 05:26:44 What do I type in? 05:26:47 "/1"? 05:27:06 Nothing. 05:27:17 Push the return key. 05:27:18 Oh, that shows some things. 05:27:54 Why isn't it working with my regular client? 05:28:13 What happens when you use netcat listening on port 70 and connect to it with your other gopher client? 05:28:48 It sends a / 05:29:10 Well, that is improper. 05:29:34 The protocol is not supposed to do that unless you have another / after the 1 in the URL 05:30:39 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:30:50 Why are both my gopher clients broken? 05:31:15 I don't know; but every client I have tried (on many operating systems, even Android, since someone I know has one) works properly! 05:31:57 I use Debian and these are the two that are in APT. 05:32:11 Maybe it is because Gopher+ mode is enabled and needs to be turned off. Does it have configuration setting which can be changed? 05:32:13 Let me try one in Firefox. 05:32:46 In Firefox, you could try Overbite, which works better than the one that used to be built-in. 05:33:12 OK, OverbiteFF works. 05:34:16 Overbite 05:34:29 is that like an Überzombie thing 05:34:47 I also wrote a gopher client for any UNIX system, called bashgopher, and a GUI gopher client for Windows, called Visgopher, and I don't know if it work on WINE or not. 05:35:04 called so because gophers are often depicted with an overbite, prolly 05:37:36 echo 'furry*!video_game' | nc zzo38computer.org 70 | head -n3 | tail -n1 | cut -c 2- 05:37:44 Finally we can generate ourselves some game names! 05:38:36 these are great 05:38:39 That is one way! 05:38:55 Nasty Chemistry in Middle-Earth 05:38:57 However, if you want, you can also download the programs into your own computer to use them, if you have PHP, in order to speed up 05:39:04 Rather than having to use internet. 05:39:05 "Bonk's Quarterstaff Lawyers" shiiiiit 05:39:14 Stop the Hang Glider Choreographer 05:39:28 Ghetto Fun Operatives. this is genius 05:39:33 Bumping Nazi Fun 05:39:34 Stoic Golf Scam 05:39:42 Canadian Blood 3000 05:39:43 Acidic Illithid Against Patents 05:39:46 Interesting Graveyard For Masochists 05:39:50 Occult Shark Odyssey 05:39:52 Bizarre Penguin Rebellion 05:40:03 i'm pretty sure the ecco the dolphin is kind of that though 05:40:08 Big Bird's Sniper Connection 05:40:15 Catholic Shaving 95 <-- okay, hang on now 05:40:17 FurryScript is a command-line program, written in PHP, and you are free to use them under the GNU AGPL. 05:40:50 Flying Landmine Fiasco 05:40:56 Russian Wagon Conundrum 05:40:59 Nobody Likes the College Orchestra 05:41:31 Ultraviolent Programming Boy 05:41:36 Not all of the data in that file is mine, but much of it is; I also corrected some mistakes that the other data contained, and removed some duplicates and so on. 05:42:01 Communist Croquet Voyage 05:42:07 Epic Llama Thieves 05:42:22 Xenophobic Yak Demolition 05:42:36 In the Lost Kingdom of Spelling DVD 05:42:52 Fiery Punching Chase 05:42:58 Queen of the Racing Hospital 05:43:03 So, if you have PHP on your computer, you should download it if you are planning to make many requests, so that you can avoid overloading my computer or overloading the internet. 05:43:16 Scooby Doo and the Chocobo Dungeon 05:43:25 If I don't have PHP on my computer can I keep overloading the Internet? 05:43:29 Final Beautician Disaster 05:43:36 Jedi Hair Salon Massacre 05:43:41 Asymmetric Janitor Unleashed 05:43:47 front page news tomorrow: "online game name generator takes down Internet" 05:44:01 Irritating Writing vs. Capcom 05:44:14 shachaf: Well, it would be better if you don't keep overloading the internet; but, it is possible to request more than one at once by a tab afterward and how many you want. 05:44:17 Five dimensional Drug-Dealing Crusader 05:44:22 Hitler's Wrestling Restaurant 05:44:35 Blessing of the Internet Posse 05:44:44 Middle-Eastern Juggalo of the Law 05:44:50 zzo38: Oh, thank you. 05:44:55 http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/randomly-generated-games.php Oh, I forgot that SA did this once. 05:45:00 Except they made covers to go with 'em. 05:45:57 echo $'furry*!video_game\t20' | nc zzo38computer.org 70 | grep '^i\w' | cut -c 2- 05:47:13 http://i.somethingawful.com/u/garbageday/photoshop_phriday/2009_08_21/HellospPity_01.jpg i think it went well, personally 05:47:33 Unremarkable Gun Insanity 05:47:37 Funky DJ Werewolf sounds lie a promising tv show premise 05:47:52 Boring Ping Pong Expert 05:47:57 That sounds too realistic. 05:48:19 Awful Bong Nation 05:48:20 OK, then make a television show too, if you like to do that. 05:48:38 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 05:48:51 this sounds like one of those home makeover shows 05:49:01 the host comes to your room and inspects your awful bong and then helps you improve it 05:49:26 participants get a $1000 gift card for ROOR 05:49:28 how does this tie into American Bong Saloon? 05:49:56 Oh, there's also a TV plot generator. 05:50:17 THIS PROGRAM IS ABOUT A ILLOGICAL PHILOSOPHER WHO IS AMAZING AT BEING FUNNY 05:50:17 AND WHO SAVES A MANAGER 05:50:35 Blessing of the Bible - The Lost Levels 05:51:27 That TV plot generator is very old and the original source is unknown, although it has been published by Creative Computing; I then added a lot of additional things to that file. 05:51:34 In the Lost Kingdom of Laser Preacher 05:51:37 This is why they are in uppercase. 05:51:57 zzo38: Good reason. 05:52:38 Sniper on the Oregon Trail 05:53:02 Night of the Underwear Interceptor 05:53:05 Hillbilly Hippo Bastards 05:53:19 are these movie titles or video game titles? 05:53:29 why not both? 05:53:32 Emo Night in Hell! 05:53:43 Hmm, there's also an adventure generator 05:53:44 Real Math Pimps 05:53:47 If you use !adventure 05:53:49 did this thing generate the name of real fast nora's etc. ? because it should have, 05:54:00 Final Computer of Mother Theresa 05:54:25 Exciting Brain - Total Peace 05:55:20 Someone is sabotaging wagons and carts to come apart when travelling at high speed. 05:55:26 Elves are using a gauntlets of arcane weakness to kill human librarians. 05:55:35 Orbital Horse Racing Lawyers 05:56:01 Big Bird's Ghost Gone Wild 05:56:14 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:56:26 Frankenstein's Transvestite Castle 05:56:27 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 05:56:31 Mary Kate and Ashley's Fish Revisited 05:56:32 Everything burns. 05:56:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:56:48 You receive a map with many deliberate errors. 05:57:09 Frankenstein's Transvestite Castle <-- well that one's obviously a movie. 05:57:26 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:57:42 Wandering Cat 2000 05:59:05 Bike: not necessarily. maybe it is like a crossbreed of rocky horror and luigi's mansion 05:59:11 Psychedelic Forklift Competition 05:59:15 Bling Bling Florist Overlords 05:59:31 quintopia: isn't that just luigi's mansion 06:00:02 hmmmmm 06:00:07 no, the music is more fun 06:03:16 Dirty Tennis Yoga <--- ok that would sell 06:03:35 but would it be legal? 06:03:43 c.f. http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/10/18 06:05:03 Imperfect Hovercraft Physics <--- this game came with windows 95 06:05:17 "BMX XXX" why did i look up what that comic was referring to 06:05:39 apparently there were not one but two rocky horror video games 06:05:41 so yeah 06:05:44 what 06:05:46 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:05:51 zzo38: do you have a c64 emulator 06:06:14 Geriatric Otaku Nation 06:06:28 am i missing kmc running a zzo program 06:06:51 Approximate Bedtime For Masochists 06:07:10 im reading all of these wow they're good 06:07:21 05:43:16 Scooby Doo and the Chocobo Dungeon 06:07:25 jesus 06:07:36 05:44:01 Irritating Writing vs. Capcom 06:07:41 christ 06:07:52 chocobo's dungeon was really pretty fun. adding a mystery-solving-dog component could only improve it 06:08:05 Dracula's Bomberman - The Dark Project 06:08:17 quintopia: No 06:08:31 Neon Wheelchair of Love 06:08:36 Unbelievable Enlightening Trivia 06:08:51 Ye Olde Hamster I 06:08:57 zzo38: what about zx spectrum 06:09:05 Papal Bass Vengeance 06:09:19 Postmodern Chess Detective <--- this is a canadian TV show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endgame_(TV_series)) 06:09:22 No, I don't have that either. Not on this computer, anyways. 06:09:27 pretty good 06:09:28 The Infernal Barcode Strike Force 06:09:52 Russian Shock Babies 06:10:00 zzo38: do you know a way to port binaries targeting those systems without an emu 06:10:12 Interstellar Lowrider Plus 06:10:13 quintopia: No. 06:10:22 Biblical Stone in Space 06:10:26 Do you need them? 06:10:37 Low G Hillbilly Colosseum 06:10:47 that was an episode of futurama 06:10:54 «The game involved playing as either Brad or Janet and collecting pieces of the Medusa machine scattered around the castle, in order to free your partner from stone and escape the castle before it blasts off. Meanwhile the other characters in the game can hinder your progress by stealing and hiding your clothes along with what you are carrying.» 06:11:15 Single Fun - The Last Generation 06:11:24 it's the last generation because everyone in it is staying single and not having babies 06:11:27 also they have fun 06:11:40 Christian Spelling vs. The Space Mutants 06:11:52 Renegade Telephone Colosseum 06:12:00 Legend of Frankenstein's Monster 06:12:05 Pagan Banjo Caper. i think this may be the best program of all time 06:12:27 Oh wait 06:12:37 No, don't wait 06:12:49 zzo38: i was just seeing if you ever tried to play c64 games on your computer 06:12:54 Someone did Frankenstein himself, but not Adam 06:13:01 Evil Genius Sailboat Conundrum 06:13:38 Dead Goth Symphony 06:13:43 that would be a good band name 06:13:49 Oh, this is generated 06:14:17 Celtic Terrorist GT 06:14:27 Stealth Workout - The Lost Levels 06:15:00 Pro Plunger in the Magic Kingdom 06:15:06 Angry Landmine Romance 06:15:29 Tactical Chess - Total War 06:15:34 Combat Dating Dreamland 06:15:39 History of the Sunshine Thieves 06:15:43 another band / album name 06:16:19 the thing about band names is that you have to specify a genre 06:16:27 otherwise you can just enter in random characters and say it's post-rock, etc 06:16:31 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 06:16:35 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Client Quit). 06:16:46 Silly Transvestite Joe 06:17:06 Wtf 06:17:12 Then write some for band name including genres! I wrote on esolang wiki of FurryScript, hopefully you can understand? 06:17:16 wtf Indian Chocobo Jihad 06:17:22 i think History of the Sunshine Thieves would play upbeat power-pop with unsettling existentialist conspiracy lyrics 06:17:23 Bike: well that already works for post-rock bands in practice so what's the problem 06:17:24 There are already dozens of generators. 06:17:26 Children of the Tetris Collection 06:17:43 it might be too long for anything but post rock though 06:17:45 elliott: i mean, what if i want a post-breakcore neobaroque-hop band name? 06:17:47 the tetris collected them... but now... the tables have turned 06:17:57 Nasty Tetris DJ 06:18:07 Bike: then possibly it is for the best that there is no band naming service to suit your needs 06:18:12 Cybernetic Harp Gladiator 06:18:17 Philistine. 06:18:20 Small-Time Techno Havoc 06:18:28 Weary Punching Mathematics 06:18:35 Inbred Bongo Scam 06:18:47 Stop the Anarchy 06:18:48 Everybody Hates the Midget Sickness 06:18:50 it has the extra space. i don't know why 06:18:56 Cosmic Booty Project 06:19:16 elliott: If you look at the script codes then you will know why. But you can just ignore the extra space. 06:19:22 i will 06:19:23 All-Night Lawnmower Slayer 06:19:25 Star Wars Spatula Deluxe 06:19:30 Hazardous Flatulence World Tour 06:19:45 Hip-Hop Banjo Co-Op 06:19:52 Stupendous Turtle Machine 06:20:01 what have i started 06:20:16 Radical Baking Assault Forever it will be a channel to discuss these now 06:20:27 Luigi's Smart Sickness 06:20:29 Special Hobo Gold 06:20:33 Escape from the Fun Noodle World Cup 06:20:39 I would NOT want a hobo's special gold 06:20:41 technically it's all zzo's fault. you're just the harbinger, shachaf, of zzo's doom 06:20:43 not so fun any more 06:20:54 Tropical Cheese Sorcery 06:21:06 Screaming Frisbee Universe 06:21:07 Exquisite Bible Armada these are so good 06:21:14 Drug-Induced Baking III 06:21:15 I'm just imagining every frisbee ever thrown just screaming 06:21:29 AaAAAAAAAAA *blarg* 06:21:33 Return of Dinosaur on the High Seas 06:21:44 hybrid piracy/dinosaur game 06:22:05 an iphone app that helps you bake stuff while you are high 06:22:12 that would make about a billion kajillion dollars 06:22:23 Ultimate Business 2k 06:22:37 Unforgettable Burger Warfare 06:22:51 Topsy-Turvy Cannibal Struggle 06:22:55 Jedi Programming Principle <--- less a video game and more a linkbait post on hacker news 06:23:18 `quote ctopus 06:23:20 191) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 220) ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could m 06:23:25 These are pretty good. 06:23:26 kmc: Someone should actually write a good article about that 06:23:37 shachaf: is that second quote referring to the pacific northwest tree octopus? 06:23:38 Get Cat Eating 06:23:47 Unforgettable Pony - 2nd Impact 06:23:57 Bike: I assume so. 06:24:03 Bike: My mother once forwarded that email to me. 06:24:06 Enormous Fun Island 06:24:15 NBA Biplane Dungeon 06:24:17 FreeFull: http://bradapp.blogspot.com/2009/07/jedi-programming-just-enough-design.html i have something to tell you 06:24:20 No One Can Stop the Duck Bandits 06:24:20 Meta Deer Hunter of the Deep 06:24:31 Would be a good band name if it wasn't so long 06:24:32 shachaf: i think i convinced one of my friends of it once. considering how rainy it is here it's shockingly believable 06:24:49 Bike: You're in the Pacific Northwest? 06:24:57 FreeFull: band The Duck Bandits, album No One Can Stop the Duck Bandits. perfect? 06:25:01 ayep 06:25:01 8-Bit Android DJ <--- shit yeah that would sell 06:25:10 kmc: bit.trip beat? 06:25:12 Masters of Wheelchair Deathmatch 06:25:59 In Search of Dungeons and Dragons Task Force 06:26:40 History of the Punching vs. You 06:27:00 kmc: another good band name 06:27:04 this program is multi-purpose 06:27:11 Ye Olde Drug-Dealing Crime Scene Investigation 06:27:18 hahahaha 06:27:55 elliott: But a band called Duck Bandits already exists 06:28:11 Double Gnome Tournament 06:28:28 Post-Apocalyptic Penguin Trader 06:28:57 Undercover Otyugh Balls 06:29:03 Duke Nukem: Shaving Eating 06:29:13 shaving eating 06:29:19 Geriatric Buddhist Raider 06:29:32 Oh hahaha 06:29:33 Super Sexy Manlove Beta 06:29:44 they haven't worked out all the kinks yet 06:29:48 * kmc ducks 06:29:53 Almighty Skate Invaders 06:30:09 Fisher Price Tentacles Nightmare 06:30:30 Bad Programming Fiesta 06:30:34 Imperial Sunshine Orchestra 06:30:35 Are y'all still running this game name generator? 06:30:55 Asian Hell Anarchy 06:30:55 no, they're just hooked directly into the mind of god now. 06:31:19 A bot in another channel on another network had this thing where you specified kinds of words (like proper noun) with one or two letter combinations, and it would fill it in into a sentence 06:31:22 Religious Juggalo Paratroopers 06:31:27 It had some more advanced stuff too 06:31:37 Curse of the Puppy in Vegas 06:31:39 God were the sentences funny 06:31:57 And of course you could write out most of the sentence yourself and have it only small parts 06:32:00 Narcoleptic Jetski Diesel 06:32:14 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 06:32:15 i know a channel on another network where they just have a bot that messages at a common rate with markov gibberish 06:32:25 All-Day Caveman in Bed 06:32:26 of course, the consequence is that it's hard to tell the humans apart from the bot 06:32:32 Everybody Loves the Prison Psychiatrist 06:33:18 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:33:42 Mary Kate and Ashley's Juggalo Showdown 06:33:54 My Very Own Money Conundrum 06:34:18 Revenge of Bong of the Third Reich 06:34:32 that one sounds like a *really* bad stoner comedy 06:34:38 Wacky STD Inferno 06:35:00 my very own money conundrum sounds pretty sad 06:35:28 Transvestite Flatulence For Masochists 06:35:44 these are sounding increasingly illegal. 06:35:47 The Hunt For the Punching Beatdown 06:36:40 Minimal Cricket Rage 06:36:42 Antediluvian Cowboy of Magic 06:36:45 Does the JVM really make it impossible to do tail call elimination? 06:36:51 2-Bit Hardware Country 06:36:58 Or even just jumps in general, except within a method? 06:37:01 1-Bit Breakdancing - The Gathering Storm 06:37:08 Medical Sudoku in My Pocket 06:37:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:37:17 shachaf: i think it would interfere with the security model? 06:37:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 06:37:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 06:37:33 I don't know much about the JVM. 06:37:40 Symmetric Jetski Offline 06:37:41 neither do I 06:37:47 http://www.jazz2online.com/junk/tick/tickbot.html#rsg 06:37:47 Why would it interfere? 06:37:50 Read up 06:37:57 but that's what i've heard. since tail calls mess up the stack frames 06:38:04 which... are needed for security audit or something 06:38:31 Hexadecimal Wordplay - Star Trek Edition 06:38:35 but isn't the idea of tail call elimination that you just optimize a recurisve function into a loop via code transformation? so like, the function doesn't exist anymore kinda 06:38:38 «These requirements could in theory be supported, but it would probably require a new bytecode (see John Rose's informal proposal).» 06:38:42 The actual bot ended up more advanced but the documentation wasn't updated 06:38:45 like, the JVM can inline, and that changes things 06:38:47 Celebrity Writing Jihad 06:39:14 Fiora: TCE doesn't have to be a call to the same function, is the crux 06:39:15 Fiora: yes, so a 5-deep recursive call that would have been five stack frames for audit turns out to be just the one. 06:39:25 oh, yeah, that would make more sense. duh. 06:39:27 i.e. you can have two mutually-recursive functions, say 06:39:34 or even just 5000 different functions that all tail-call each other 06:39:38 and they'd all get optimised 06:39:46 Or you can just, you know, have a tail call. No recursion necessry. 06:39:47 this is why you can't optimise it "locally" by just changing one function 06:39:47 a 06:40:03 Mrs. Wumpus Simulator 06:40:06 Preschool Architecture - The Lost Levels 06:40:13 The problem with calling it an optimisation is that in some languages, iteration doesn't exist at all 06:40:16 The JVM has no jump instruction, though. 06:40:23 Except inside a method, and a method is limited to 64K 06:40:30 FreeFull: are there any such languages besides scheme? 06:40:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:40:46 64 k should be enought for everyone. 06:40:59 Bike: I can't think of any that aren't lisps 06:41:04 ion: Actually a method is limited at 64K - 1 :-( 06:41:05 haskell 06:41:18 Madden Pogo Dreamland 06:41:22 shachaf: 64 kB or 64 KiB? 06:41:25 Five dimensional Hardware in My Pocket 06:41:27 (−1) 06:41:29 Mega Internet of Love 06:41:29 Fix the WWII Monsters 06:41:32 ion: I assume KiB. 06:42:15 maybe you can just make do with folds. 06:42:18 In haskell most often you'd do something like map x ys but map itself might be implemented recursively (No idea about implementation, could be in C for all I know) 06:42:35 Or a fold if you want one end result 06:42:37 Haskell's "map" is implemented in APL 06:42:41 haha. 06:43:27 you couldn't technically meet the scheme standard though, probably, because it actually mandates tailness? 06:43:53 Sure you could. 06:44:13 it mandates constant space usage 06:44:16 You might not be able to have a mapping Scheme function -> JVM method. 06:44:19 you can achieve this on a given Haskell implementation 06:44:20 oh is this jvm 06:45:23 elliott: When you write your Haskell compiler, can you not make it generate annoying names like "sfWk_info"? 06:45:30 no 06:45:37 How many names does GHC actually generated, anyway? 06:45:45 I suppose most of them are intermediate names that are never seen. 06:45:59 I'd rather have it be called "alpaca_info" or something. 06:46:23 Haskell’s “IO” is implemented as a container for a Perl script to be executed via libperl by the RTS. 06:46:36 Let me translate that from ionese: 06:46:45 Haskell's "IO" is implemented as a container for a Perl script to be executed via libperl by the RTS. 06:47:04 y u troll 06:47:06 There is also a requirement that's approximately something like all possible paths of reaching a particular point must have the same (statically analyzed) stack effect, so you can't e.g. make a loop that'd pop off elements from the JVM stack. 06:47:23 "If an instruction can be executed along several different execution paths, the operand stack must have the same depth (§2.6.2) prior to the execution of the instruction, regardless of the path taken." 06:49:21 I'm just imagining every frisbee ever thrown just screaming 06:49:24 sounds like salvia 06:56:00 Learning English through Exercise http://youtu.be/YZ1hah7QvIw 06:59:02 i like the implication that taking a taxi in america will immediately lead to a knifepoint robbery 07:00:41 Is that not the case? 07:01:33 only in detroit 07:01:42 and oakland 07:01:45 and east palo alto 07:02:18 hi 07:02:27 I've never taken a taxi in EPA. 07:02:38 I've taken them in San Francisco, though. 07:03:11 It felt very dangerous. 07:03:19 That was mostly because of the driver's driving, though. 07:03:57 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:10:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 07:14:26 -!- augur has joined. 07:29:54 http://heaven.internetarchaeology.org/ I'm sure many people have seen this but it has not stopped being hilariously bad 07:30:36 co-existance 07:31:32 !!! 07:31:32 http://midi.internetarchaeology.org/devil.mid 07:31:36 What song is that? 07:34:27 by bad do you mean really good 07:35:21 a true work of art 07:35:24 timeless masterpiece 07:35:31 &c &c 07:35:50 monqy: hi 07:36:20 hi 07:37:01 monqy: I took your "hi" and sold it to a collector for "about a billion kajillion dollars" 07:40:37 I love MIDIs 07:40:51 me too 07:42:58 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 07:46:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:47:36 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:49:19 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 07:49:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:51:16 elliott, monqy. I believe by #esoteric law I am required to do the thing. 07:51:41 It's somewhat boring 07:51:49 sounds like a dumb law 07:52:00 what law? 07:52:04 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:52:37 The law of gravity. 07:52:38 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:52:52 It's only enforced because of an obscure #esoteric rule from the middle ages. 07:53:03 We'd all be free to fly around if it weren't for this channel. 07:53:26 Admittedly stars wouldn't work either, but that's the price you pay. 07:53:27 Hmm, I always thought it was Newton's fault. 07:53:47 If only he had had sense to dodge that apple, we wouldn't have gravity? 07:54:08 Apples usually fall up, don't they? 07:54:10 It's terrible. 08:02:46 sgeo: you've been playing too much iwtbtg. put down the delicious fruit. 08:03:11 I haven't played much iwtbtg 08:03:26 I love watching Let's Plays, but I haven't seriously tried playing myself 08:05:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:08:38 Meanwhile in Finland: parking your car http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/978/1288523526349.jpg 08:13:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:36:23 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:38:28 -!- nooga has joined. 08:51:42 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:57:21 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:57:49 -!- kallisti has joined. 08:57:49 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host). 08:57:49 -!- kallisti has joined. 09:37:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:44:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:47:48 Meanwhile also in Finland: Finnish Safety and Chemicals Agency has done their traditional yearly spot-check on christmas toys, and 14 of the selected 28 toys had safety deficiencies; 5 such that they were recalled, including a bow-and-arrow set with a laser pointer aiming thing that's "over ten times" over the 0.39 mW limit of a class 1 laser. 09:56:00 let's go dutch 09:56:14 I've got the name for it 09:56:45 Meanwhile in Dutch: Finse Veiligheid en Agentschap voor chemische stoffen heeft gedaan hun traditionele jaarlijkse spot-check op kerst speelgoed, en 14 van de geselecteerde 28 speelgoed had veiligheidstekortkomingen, 5 zodanig dat ze werden teruggeroepen, waaronder een boeg-en pijl-set met een laser pointer gericht ding dat is "meer dan tien keer" over de 0,39 mW grens van een klasse 1 laser. 09:58:03 "Boeg-en pijl-set" makes me smile. 09:58:38 I wonder if "een laser pointer gerich ding" is something a native Dutch speaker might say. 09:58:49 looks like it translated into (Finnish Safety) and (chemicals agency) too 09:59:23 That's not terribly good. 09:59:30 My hair feels weird 09:59:45 Your hair feels? 09:59:55 Mine doesn't, as far as I know 10:01:18 Also this http://www.turvallistajuhlaa.info/@Bin/44623/zoolife_popeyes_web.jpeg was recalled because one of the eyes fell off in the testing. With a name like "ZooLife Popeyes", I don't know what they were expecting... 10:09:22 -!- evitable has joined. 10:13:59 -!- ogrom has joined. 10:14:18 If I start talking about Factor again, is elliott going to bring that bot in again? 10:14:40 -!- ogrom has left. 10:15:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:15:41 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:17:07 : fortnight ( x -- duration ) 14 * days ; 10:17:14 "Better not tell you now", says the magic eight-ball. 10:17:20 That tricks me into thinking that 14 is being multiplied by days 10:17:20 I suppose that wasn't very helpful. 10:18:51 -!- evitable has joined. 10:28:41 Forthnight. 10:31:10 -!- augur_ has joined. 10:33:37 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:42:35 [12:39:21] !conduct 10:42:35 [12:39:21] Conduct: Do not eat a dagger more than 11 times. 10:42:41 (Had to retwe... I mean, share.) 10:47:06 !insulate 10:50:08 -!- evitable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:18:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:18:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:23:59 Maybe I'd find Factor easier if I viewed the stack shuffling words as though they were compositions of the function that follows them? 11:24:05 swap foo is just like flip foo 11:25:42 thing is have you ever seen a mess of flips and made sense of it 11:25:56 does that sort of thing happen in factor 11:26:16 I'm starting to fear that that's the default in Factor 11:27:26 I'd assume otherwise but ~who knows~ 11:28:17 of course you can't just take some wacky function and write it in factor with flips and make it readable but maybe you can write it in some other way that's easier to make sense of, using higher level features, and comment it if needed, &c 11:29:16 after all if factor was just a mess of flips who would use it :] 11:35:46 -!- ogrom has joined. 11:40:03 monqy: spoilers no one uses factor :'( 11:40:09 monqy: (but not because of the flips) 11:41:21 Do you get the kind of >R SWAP R@ OVER R> thing in Factor? 11:43:00 (That's (a b c -- b a c a c) and is probably conventionally written in some other way, I just mashed some keys.) 11:45:13 This is how Forth's return stack works: http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/images/ch5-return-stack.gif 11:46:06 shachaf: why don't people use factor :0 11:46:18 and 11:46:20 if sgeo used factor 11:46:26 would that be people using factor ? 11:49:16 Only is Sgeo is people. 11:49:35 Is Sgeo made of people? A horrible thought. 11:49:41 [ swap ] dip 2dup 11:49:54 I think that should have the same effect in Factor. Hmm 11:50:05 but why would you write that 11:50:31 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:51:02 Apparently not 11:54:44 Oh sure. Forget to output makes it error 11:54:57 http://ideone.com/j6E2dD works, but swapd is apparently depreciated 11:55:37 but why would you write that............. 11:56:17 Because it's what fizzie's thing does. 11:56:26 http://ideone.com/zrZAGv 11:59:28 The depreciation thing for swapd says that it's depreciated, and the use case would be better served with lexicals 11:59:53 "The data flow represented by this shuffle word can be more clearly expressed using Lexical variables." 12:00:48 Are that in any way like Forth locals? 12:01:48 I don't know what Forth locals are like 12:02:12 Example of a word defined with lexicals: 12:02:23 : foo ( a b c -- b a c a c ) >r swap r@ over r> ; would be written with locals as : foo { a b c -- b a c a c } b a c a c ;. 12:02:23 :: ( a b c -- ) a . b . c . ; 12:02:32 Ah, so yes 12:02:39 oops forgot to name it 12:03:23 It seems very similar, except for the syntax. (:: instead of {}s in the stack comment?) 12:04:22 yes 12:04:37 True Forthers (as far as I can figure out) say locals are the worst possible thing, should be never used, and you should just factor the words into smaller and smaller pieces instead. 12:04:58 Also that they are a "crutch" that will make you not factor properly. 12:05:13 Possibly also that anyone caught using locals should be shot. 12:05:34 zzo writes forth codes right? is zzo a true forther 12:05:46 http://ideone.com/XxXaIb 12:06:16 Factor seems to take the view that they should be used only when needed 12:06:35 And yes, strings don't need a space after the ". It's an exception in the parser 12:06:44 Other things like URL" still need the space 12:07:16 fizzie, there's also [let ] that can be used anywhere 12:08:48 * sgeo wonders if there's a way to write dip in pure Factor 12:09:01 dip is defined, as it turns out, but in terms of dip 12:09:23 The primitive dip is used with literal quotations, and the definition is used for non-literal quotations 12:09:37 sgeo: Technically, you can use { anywhere too: http://ideone.com/Kbh5F6 12:09:45 (Not that you'd probably want to.) 12:10:25 But that doesn't seem to terminate? 12:10:30 Except at the ; 12:10:38 You can do http://ideone.com/eO60Di if you want to get rid of them early too. 12:10:39 I should really be sleeping 12:11:06 Whoops, the comment for the locals is now misleading. 12:11:09 But you get the point. 12:11:26 yes 12:11:42 (The scope/endscope is probably gforth-specific.) 12:11:43 In Factor, those aren't comments 12:12:52 The part after -- is a comment in Forth. 12:13:26 I thought stack declarations were comments in general. Oh, except for the locals stuff, sure 12:13:44 Right, yes, in ()s they're comments altogether. 12:14:05 Factor actually checks those 12:14:08 ANS Forth doesn't really define a syntax for locals, it just defines words that can be used to define syntaxes for locals, so my examples might've been quite gforth-specific overall. 12:14:20 "The ANS Forth locals extension wordset defines a syntax, but it is so awful that we strongly recommend not to use it. We have implemented this syntax to make porting to Gforth easy, but do not document it here." 12:15:02 It's apparently the wrong way around compared to standard stack comment notation, to begin with. 12:16:32 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 12:16:43 wrong way around? 12:17:05 Oh, is that the syntax you used, or is the syntax you used Gforth specific? 12:19:10 Cool, in Factor it's possible for an error handler to forcibly resume from an error even if the thrower isn't expecting it 12:22:08 The syntax I used is I think reasonably common, but it's not entirely standard. 12:23:01 The ANS locals for : foo ( a b c -- ... ) ... ; would be declared with locals| c b a |. 12:23:17 I can see how that's a bit WTFy 12:23:20 I don't think anyone really likes it all that much. 12:23:28 The order 12:23:29 I mean 12:25:24 Also, there's shuffle( ) for arbitrary shuffling but I don't see any good docs 12:26:22 http://ideone.com/7vHtCa 12:28:37 Wait, I suddenly fail to see how [ swap ] dip 2dup made any sense 12:30:26 I was just assuming [ ... ] dip was kind of like >r ... r>. 12:31:11 In which case it makes sense. (And I suppose >r swap r@ over r> would arguably be better as >r swap r> 2dup, since 2dup exists too. 12:32:22 http://ideone.com/OnSmVL 12:32:27 So yeah, I got it wrong 12:32:37 I think it should be [ swap 2dup ] dip 12:32:46 Oh, I see what happened: 12:32:57 I turned your b a c a c thing into b a b a c 12:33:16 The [ swap ] dip 2dup was written for b a c a c 12:44:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:01:03 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 13:06:23 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:08:46 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 13:10:17 First the disembodied hand picks up a number. Then the flying two-headed monster arrives. It's obvious when you think about it. 13:12:58 (related to: This is how Forth's return stack works: http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/images/ch5-return-stack.gif ) 13:14:43 how could something be obvious, when i have to think about it first anyway 13:17:12 `quote 13:17:13 467) Pythagoras was running away and he reached a field of beans, but he didn't want to step on them so he let those guys chasing him to kill him instead. 13:20:21 perhaps the blood provided the beans with some extra nutrients as well 13:20:22 so considerate 13:23:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:27:12 `quote 13:27:13 549) Hulu's movie selection is like MST3K without the MST3K characters. 13:34:06 `quote 13:34:06 `quote 13:34:07 694) northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky 13:34:07 55) hmm, this is hard 13:34:08 `quote 13:34:09 366) meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary so far, it has found four digits I hope it will find the fifth some time this week 13:35:11 694: who was being dragged and for what purpose? 13:36:10 fizzie, does the return stack do anything important, or is it just a convenient place for when you need another stack? 13:36:14 366 is good, 55 is a bit boring 13:36:36 Sgeo: you must restore it to its original state by the end of the function (or whatever Forth calls functions) 13:36:50 as the top is expected to hold a return pointer 13:37:00 Unless you want to do tricky continuationy stuff I assume 13:37:10 yeah 13:37:38 I got that explanation from Ch5 of http://www.forth.com/starting-forth 13:38:32 on a quick browse, it looks like fizzie's linked image is fairly representative of the odd illustrations 13:39:05 Learn You A Haskell is a bit that way too, are "cutesy bizarre illustrations" a thing now in programming books?? 13:40:12 @help 13:40:12 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 13:40:17 @list 13:40:17 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 13:40:26 you could've just linked me the first time 13:40:27 GreyKnight, not in Factor books. Because there are no Factor books. 13:40:52 they're a thing in factor books too 13:40:55 because there are no factor books 13:41:01 Sgeo: so 100% of all Factor books have bizarre illustrations 13:41:09 monqy++ 13:41:19 @help tell 13:41:19 tell . When shows activity, tell them . 13:41:47 @tell ais523 Did you ever find the fifth binary digit of pi?? (`quote 366) 13:41:47 Consider it noted. 13:44:30 @freshname 13:44:30 Hain 13:46:45 GreyKnight, what if there's a deletion spree before then? 13:47:29 shrug 13:51:05 sgeo: It is used by things other than return addresses too, which makes it slightly tricky to use. 13:51:36 Loop control things, for example. 13:52:48 You can't 10 >r ... do ... r> ... loop and expect r> to pick up the 10. 13:53:07 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:54:21 (And in fact i is pretty much just r@ in disguise.) 13:55:01 what about conditionals? 13:55:31 I don't think selection statements affect the return stack. 13:59:18 Do people consider Forth conditionals to be ugly? 13:59:54 Factor conditionals are less ... syntaxy, but harder to read imo because the code goes before the if 14:00:17 0 zero? [ "It's zero!" . ] [ "It's not zero!" . ] if 14:01:27 I think people have complained about the misleading location of "then" in the Forth if then . 14:02:04 gforth documentation prefers to use the synonym "endif" for "then". 14:02:34 Can gforth conditionals be used at the whatever-the-REPL-is-called-in-Forth? 14:02:47 Especially when it's combined with else, making it cond IF truecase ELSE falsecase THEN otherstuff. 14:03:33 I should really get going 14:03:36 In the interpreter? No, but you can use [if] [else] [then]. 14:03:41 I have a long day of mostly doing nothing at school 14:05:05 `forth 0 if 1 else 2 then . 14:05:07 ​ \ in file included from *OS command line*:-1 \ /tmp/input.274:1: Interpreting a compile-only word \ 0 >>>if<<< 1 else 2 then . \ Backtrace: \ $40E19B30 throw 14:05:14 `forth 0 [if] 1 [else] 2 [then] . 14:05:15 2 14:06:03 `factor 14:06:12 Hmm, wonder about the best way to add a factor command 14:06:16 Actually, that could suck 14:06:34 No output. 14:06:39 Factor has a tendency to want you to list every vocabulary you want to use, and all the useful stuff is spread out among them 14:06:40 Wait what 14:06:43 `which factor 14:06:45 ​/usr/bin/factor 14:06:49 Factors numbers. 14:06:52 `factor 142341 14:06:52 `factor "Hello" . 14:06:53 142341: 3 17 2791 14:06:54 factor: `"Hello" .' is not a valid positive integer 14:07:12 So... the name of Factor still sucks major balls 14:07:16 It's the factor of coreutils. 14:08:03 I wonder... 14:08:06 `run dpkg-query -S $(which factor) 14:08:07 dpkg-query: failed to open package info file `/var/lib/dpkg/status' for reading: No such file or directory 14:08:10 Aw. 14:09:46 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/concatenative/message/4873 14:10:00 Apparently the person behind Joy abandoned it and recommends Factor? 14:10:35 -!- boily has joined. 14:11:26 * sgeo wonders if there's a cleaner approach to syntax modification than Factor's approach 14:11:33 (Which I think is similar to Forth's?) 14:12:03 I mean, cleaner approach in the concatenative language space 14:23:52 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:39:41 elliott: Turns out that exceptions are faster than return value checking for rare errors: mushspace and Hali will move to C++11, I'm afraid. (mushspace will of course still provide a C API.) 14:59:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:01:22 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 15:10:09 Deewiant: Move to C with setjmp/longjmp. 15:10:24 But... but I heard a guy once say that exceptions are slow and nobody should ever consider thinking about using then! 15:10:26 them! 15:10:35 I've heard a guy once say that. 15:11:11 I've also heard you incur their cost even when not using them. 15:12:06 fizzie: I thought about but I figured it's too impractical even for this. 15:13:44 Deewiant: Move to C with inline-asm macros that do a vaguely setjmp/longjmp-like raw register dump/reload. 15:14:41 fizzie: That could be an "in addition to" solution, but not an "instead of", since it requires per-architecture work from me. 15:16:26 Deewiant: Ooh, ooh, move to C with #define throw(errcode) *(void *)(errcode) exceptions that are "caught" by a SIGSEGV handler that pickles the uc_mcontext member of the ucontext_t to unwind back into a handler. 15:16:41 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 15:17:09 Deewiant: (Both slow and horrible at the same time!) 15:17:43 fizzie: Sorry, undefined behaviour is a no-go. 15:17:51 (Points for creativity though. :-)) 15:19:05 yeah i knew somebody who proposed implementing futures in C that way 15:19:26 Let me guess, he's DEAD NOW? 15:19:30 probabl 15:26:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:21:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:22:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:40:36 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 16:46:48 Deewiant: Why not just use setjmp or whatever 16:47:05 It's syntactically ugly unless you use some macro hackery but there's nothing wrong with it. 16:47:56 It's ugly and potentially a pain for users 16:48:14 If it matters for users, then you don't export a "C API". 16:48:50 I export a C API as an alternative; C++ users can use the exceptions directly. 16:50:06 I really don't think setjmp/longjmp are that ugly, since you can recreate a try/catch structure directly with just some macro hackery anyway. It's not that far off 16:52:32 And it does matter for users, since the users will be the setjmp'ing ones. 16:53:58 Sure, so the C API will be awkward whether you use longjmp or exceptions. 16:56:29 If I use longjmp it'll be awkward due to having to pass a jmp_buf everywhere. If I use exceptions the C API will be return codes, and you can ignore them if you're willing to ignore malloc failures, like people tend to be. :-P 16:56:52 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:57:19 not like malloc ever actually fails on linux 16:57:35 It can if you've configured it to do so. 16:57:39 sure 16:57:41 which i have actually 16:57:46 And on non-Linux systems, of course. 16:57:53 also it can fail if you run out of virtual address space before you run out of actual storage 16:57:59 which is pretty plausible on 32-bit 16:58:02 Right. 16:59:00 you mean, actual storage space is larger than 2^32? 17:00:19 well, that can happen, sure 17:00:22 there's some OISC esolang on the wiki like that, that claims to be turing-complete but that can only access as many instructions as the fixed-length addresses allow it 17:01:06 well the article starts by stating words can be for instance 5-bit long, and then it gets way too complicated for more and somehow seems to assume words are infinite or something 17:01:38 but also physical storage is typically allocated when memory pages are actually used 17:02:41 so you could allocate 2^32 bytes of memory, not actually touch it, and end up with a small physical memory footprint 17:02:51 but still run out of address space 17:04:03 16:56:29 If I use longjmp it'll be awkward due to having to pass a jmp_buf everywhere. If I use exceptions the C API will be return codes, and you can ignore them if you're willing to ignore malloc failures, like people tend to be. :-P 17:04:22 You can abstract the jmp_buf, but don't you have some sort of "interpreter state" object you can stuff it into instead? 17:04:38 I'd probably just abort() or fail silently on malloc failures, though. mushspace isn't mission critical. 17:04:55 Deewiant: Wait, why do you need a jmp_buf yourself? Just call a function pointer on an error. 17:05:05 I'm trying to be anal about handling malloc failures correctly. 17:05:10 If it wants to unwind the stack it can arrange that itself in a language-specific manner (setjmp/longjmp or exceptions). 17:05:55 There are other kinds of errors as well (also the rare kind), it'd be impractical for the user to manage them all. 17:07:06 Deewiant: It can just pass an error code/string/whatever to the funptr it calls? 17:07:21 It'd be minimal-effort to pass it a function that throws a C++ exception or whatever. 17:07:29 And if you don't care, you can just pass it something that abort()s. 17:09:14 I think everything that can fail has access to a mushspace*, so that could work. 17:10:36 I guess the function call overhead could theoretically make actually *handling* an error slowly, but I assume you don't care about performance in the rare error cases, so this seems like the cleanest solution to me. 17:11:13 (Of course you might want to use other C++11 features too. But C++ libraries are such a pain, esp. to bind to other languages. Admittedly having a C API handles most of that work.) 17:13:28 Yes, error handling speed is irrelevant. The error cases are essentially "malloc (or equivalent) failure" / "cannot fit input into address space" / (various kinds of) "infinite loop detected", which shouldn't be common. 17:13:58 the probability of generating a valid UTF-8 sequence by picking random bytes uniformly is about 53.6% 17:15:34 Oh, I guess you also need to store a (void *) somewhere so that the error handler can get access to a jmp_buf that a hypothetical user stuffed in. But that's just standard "closure in C" stuff. 17:15:42 Well, they could just use a global I guess. 17:15:53 Sometimes I need to do some operations before rethrowing, though. 17:15:56 and the probability if you pick only high-bit bytes is about 16.4% 17:16:11 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:16:22 Deewiant: That sounds a little fiddly but easy enough. 17:16:43 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:16:56 I guess you could simplify it by storing a FILO of error handlers that you push that stuff to. 17:16:58 elliott: It means I'd have to propagate the exception via other methods until I'm sure I can call the user's handler. 17:17:28 No, you could just override the handler to be one that cleans stuff up and then calls the user's exception handler. 17:18:24 That's likely to be more expensive than try-catch-throw, I think. 17:19:16 What, the expense of reassigning a pointer? 17:20:38 Say you use struct error_handler { void (*handle)(void *userdata, char *error); void *userdata; }; Then if you have finalisation work to do, you write: void my_finalising_stuff(void *userdata, char *myerror) { error_handler *old_handler = userdata; ...finalise stuff...; old_handler->handle(old_handler->userdata, error); } 17:20:39 That's at least four pointers: save user's handler and data pointers and anything from the stack our handler will need, write our handler and data pointers. 17:21:01 Eh. 17:21:10 It sounds pretty cheap to me. 17:21:27 How often do you even set these up? 17:21:42 This would be in every write operation. 17:21:46 I.e. often. 17:22:19 Surely you can avoid that: have the error handling function itself call a finalise_write_stuff() function before the user's error handler, and have that just read from something in the (mushspace *). 17:22:34 Then you only have to store what you absolutely have to store (the relevant data it needs to access). 17:22:52 (You can generalise this by doing the FILO thing and just setting it up ahead of time.) 17:25:23 The relevant data will change every call, and it's not /only/ in writes that I have to do some kind of finalization. 17:27:14 Sure, so if you set up a FILO or whatever of all the possible types of finalisation you need to do ahead of time (and only actually walk it when you handle an error), the only cost of changing the relevant data is copying it; you avoid the overhead of messing with the error handlers because they're done ahead of time. 17:29:21 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:30:01 That's quite messy internally, and just that small bit of copying might already be too costly. I suppose it's worth a try, though. 17:31:03 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:31:32 Clearly you could save on copying time by having your error handlers look down the stack at your code's data. 17:31:45 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 17:31:55 Right, that's what C++ try-catch achieves without invoking undefined behaviour. :-P 17:32:05 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:33:15 That jumps, and stuff!!! 17:33:19 Overhead. 17:33:29 And re. your bracketed thing earlier: yes, I might want to use some C++ somewhere anyway. A case I expect to hit sooner or later is that qsort takes only a function pointer without a void* context... std::sort would be much more convenient than having to select between qsort_r/qsort_s depending on the libc. 17:34:05 Deewiant: I'm sure you can do much better than qsort anyway... 17:34:06 timsort? 17:35:20 qsort isn't guaranteed to use quicksort, is it? 17:35:55 Deewiant: No. But it's also not guaranteed to use the best algorithm you can get your hands on. 17:36:02 I don't think any libcs use timsort. 17:36:49 True, but this is the kind of thing whose optimization I might be willing to leave to the stdlib maintainers. :-P 17:36:58 Apparently glibc uses introsort and musl uses smoothsort. And uClibc uses, um, shellsort. 17:37:16 Deewiant: It's not even slightly close to a bottleneck? 17:38:43 elliott: It's something not at all Funge-specific which is likely to be kept at least "fast in the general case" by people who aren't me, so outsourcing it can be worthwhile. 17:40:54 Deewiant: I think you trust standard library maintainers too much. 17:41:11 Maybe. 17:41:18 Anyway if you outgrow the qsort interface you have to pay some cost switching over, so I'd personally take the opportunity to implement timsort or whatever so I know it'll be fast. 17:41:22 But that's just me. 17:43:06 I also filed an LLVM misoptimization bug which turned out to be an off-by-one error in some bitset initialization code of mine. std::bitset would've avoided that hair-pulling. 17:43:39 (This is of course a specific case that could happen anywhere else and in any language.) 17:44:08 (Well, this particular case only in languages without bounds checking on fixed-length arrays.) 17:44:32 Deewiant: The way I see it is that eventually you will end up reimplementing all this stuff just to see the numbers go down in benchmarks anyway. 17:44:43 So you might as well do it when you have an excuse like a nicer interface without switching languages. 17:45:35 Eh, there are cold paths which can benefit from things that C++ or its stdlib make simpler. 17:45:43 Which won't show up in profiles. 17:46:07 You do pay the cost of using C++ features, though. 17:46:45 Slower compile times, the effort of having to write C wrappers around stuff, larger binary (which could have performance implications), people will think you're uncool. 17:47:05 I'm sure D would make a lot of things more convenient too :) 17:47:21 The binary with C++ exceptions turned out to be 2K larger, IIRC. 17:47:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:47:58 And not really compared to C++11, I don't think. For mushspace, that is. 17:49:27 2K isn't much, sure; let me know what it's like when you use all the other conveniences. 17:49:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:49:56 Fair enough. 17:50:49 I think I'm getting to know haskell 17:51:41 oh boy 17:55:12 Well, the basics 17:55:33 What's a mushspace 18:01:56 It's an implementation of a Funge-Space. 18:05:57 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:06:39 I wonder how many befunge interpreters have been written in haskell 18:06:54 countably many 18:07:00 For -98, at least two. 18:07:22 OVER NINE FIIIIIFTHS 18:07:32 ... yes. 18:09:21 FreeFull: I wrote an almost-complete, Mycology-passing-except-for-some-unimplemented-stuff, quite-a-few-fingerprints-implementing, not-the-slowest-thing-in-the-world one. 18:09:34 It was OK. I plan to write a version 2 of it someday once I figure out a nice fungespace representation. 18:10:00 I think I might have re-lost the code again, after re-finding it. 18:10:35 elliott: Bytestrings maybe? 18:12:11 Um. I don't think so. 18:12:15 Maybe I should switch to C++ and not implement a C API just to make sure that Shiro 2 doesn't use mushspace against me. 18:12:19 It... needs to be two-dimensional, for one. 18:12:34 Deewiant: Do you seriously think I'd settle for a mutable fungespace? 18:12:49 Well... I might. But it's possible to eimplement efficient imperative code in Haskell, so I'd do that out of pride if I did make such a compromise. 18:12:55 *implement 18:13:37 Er, you'd do what exactly out of pride? 18:13:57 it's nice to use persistent data structures for your interpreter 18:14:13 then you can do checkpoints, nondeterministic eval, etc. 18:14:25 kmc: yeah 18:14:30 kmc: The problem is just efficiency, that's all. 18:14:45 The competition in the Funge-98 space is pretty fierce. 18:15:00 It's not very active though. 18:15:16 It's just me plodding along and cfunge seems to have stopped. 18:15:47 cfunge isn't the one to beat anyways, CCBI is. 18:16:05 you should write a tracing JIT 18:16:06 cfunge beats CCBI on some things. 18:16:19 Anyway I probably can't beat whatever you're calling that new interpreter on raw benchmark speed. 18:16:37 I'll be happy if I can be at least in the same league, have pretty code, cool debugging features, and implement all the stupid fingerprints you don't. 18:16:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:17:19 If you can be in the same league with a very persistent data structure, that'll be cool. 18:17:20 -!- augur has joined. 18:17:54 It would! 18:18:01 Though I am prepared to compromise my ethics to some degree. 18:18:04 I doubt you can though. I could make the current mushspace persistent-ish. 18:18:51 I might cheat by having a persistent interface but with an impure underlying implementation, such that it's slow if you actually use the persistence much. 18:18:58 Okay, not very efficiently persistent at all but some kind of COW copies would be possible. 18:19:00 Though those tricks never actually seem to perform well in practice. 18:20:17 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 18:20:45 Deewiant: (Calling COW persistent upsets me.) 18:20:47 kmc: Re. JIT, fizzie has/had a work-in-progress x86(?) JIT, another one of those not-active-but-fierce competitors. A JIT is currently the last thing on my todo list. 18:21:24 elliott: Isn't that the typical implementation technique? :-P 18:21:25 A JIT is sort of on my TODO list too. 18:21:32 It'd help me cheat around the fact that Haskell isn't as fast as C. 18:21:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:21:56 (Implementations-not-languages complaints will be answered by @quote monochrom Einstein.) 18:22:51 A custom JIT might make you win in some cases, I was just planning on having a fast interpreter and then using LLVM to JIT. 18:22:53 what# do# you# mean#, Haskell# is# as# fast# as# c# 18:23:14 Deewiant: Right, I was going to do something significantly fancier. 18:23:17 ooh you should try using pypy 18:23:30 Deewiant: Something like running another thread that analyses the paths the IP goes through and writes code that skips the actual IP movement for those stretches. 18:23:40 @quote monochrom Einstein 18:23:41 monochrom says: einstein's theory implies that haskell cannot be faster than c 18:23:46 Of course if you turn on TRDS or whatever that'd have to go. 18:23:54 The thing with LLVM as a JIT is that it's more like running a slow AOT compiler, just writing into memory instead of a file. 18:24:10 Yeah, you really want something more dynamic for Funge, I think. 18:24:12 LLVM is probably a fine hot JIT. 18:24:19 Gregor: For self-modifying programs? 18:24:28 It is shown, Haskell can be as fast as C (or sometimes faster), depending on the program. Not always. 18:24:30 Depends on how much they self modify *shrugs* 18:24:31 elliott: I figured I'd paper over that with the fast interpreter part. ;-P 18:24:38 Can you make self modifying in LLVM? 18:24:43 I do worry about that overhead/startup time, though. 18:24:46 I didn't see any command for that. 18:24:47 *about the 18:24:52 zzo38: Nope. 18:24:58 I wouldn't consider using LLVM as the fast JIT though. 18:25:10 I don't want to be superfast on idealised benchmark #174 at the expense of Mycology taking 3 seconds to run. 18:25:16 My point was to not have a fast JIT at all. 18:25:28 Just an interpreter and a slow JIT. 18:25:38 Ah 18:25:53 Also I'd want this JIT stuff to activate automatically because I don't like tuning implementation flags to benchmarks. 18:25:54 But I have had idea that they could add some kind of self-modifying in LLVM. One idea is to be able to tie the reading and/or writing of a global variable to a specific instruction. 18:26:00 Then LLVM is probably fine so long as you're tuned not to use it stupidly *shrugs* 18:26:01 my goals are admittedly impossible 18:26:01 With the former being hopefully good enough for one-time code and then LLVM handling loopy stuff well. 18:26:29 elliott: Doing JIT stuff in another thread is an option. 18:27:03 And then just say "JITting on single core will be slow". 18:27:17 Threads have costs, still. Admittedly Haskell threads are basically free so I have an advantage 8) 18:27:30 (Except not really since I'd only spawn one.) 18:28:05 Other ways to do self-modifying code might be like INTERCAL's ABSTAIN and REINSTATE; but such thing might also be done by tying a variable to a branching instruction. 18:28:15 Deewiant: Do any of your benchmarks test stuff like IO / fingerprints? 18:28:20 Maybe I could beat you by super-optimising those. 18:29:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:29:52 elliott: I/O not much, but a bit on the side with the underload interpreter. It does show up in ministat: I filed a glibc bug concerning an #ifdef excluding Clang from inlining getchar. :-P (Let's see how soon that gets marked as WONTFIX or even INVALID.) 18:30:22 elliott: Fingerprints: again, the Underload interpreter uses STRN, but not otherwise. 18:30:50 But, I don't have many benchmarks. I have the Underload interpreter and then the synthetic ones from Fungicide and that's it. 18:31:08 Deewiant: Hey, Drepper ain't in charge any more. 18:31:14 Deewiant: (Have you tried musl?) 18:32:30 o 18:32:30 ais523: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:32:33 @messages 18:32:33 GreyKnight said 5d 2h 23m 1s ago: There is a local company called AIS Gas. Thought you should know. 18:32:33 Phantom_Hoover said 5d 2h 22m 31s ago: what does the i in your name stand for 18:32:33 GreyKnight said 4h 50m 47s ago: Did you ever find the fifth binary digit of pi?? (`quote 366) 18:32:35 elliott: I noticed he was still CC'd when I submitted it, though. In any case as far as I could tell glibc only #ifdefs stuff for GCC, so I wouldn't be surprised if it were stopped. 18:32:48 elliott: And no, I haven't tried any other libcs. 18:32:56 @tell GreyKnight not using /that/ program, I've since determined it using other means 18:32:56 Consider it noted. 18:32:59 `quote 366 18:33:01 366) meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary so far, it has found four digits I hope it will find the fifth some time this week 18:33:05 ais523, I ASKED YOU IF IT WAS IAN AND YOU SAIT IT WASN'T 18:33:18 elliott: This was just to get my C++ conversion running at the same speed as the C version before switching it to use exceptions. 18:33:19 Phantom_Hoover: I thought I had a no-confirm-or-deny policy 18:33:28 also, why does nobody ask what the s stands for? 18:33:29 *SAID 18:33:37 the s is plural 18:33:47 Alex I[redacted]s series, number 523 18:33:53 because your first and last names are extremely easy to find 18:33:54 Looking at monads right now 18:34:07 Deewiant: So can your mushspace-based interpreter actually run programs? 18:34:30 elliott: Sure, so I could run the benchmarks. 18:34:44 > let x y = 1:y in return 3 =>> x =>> x 18:34:45 Not in scope: `=>>' 18:34:45 Perhaps you meant one of these: 18:34:45 `>>' (imported from... 18:34:53 Deewiant: Right, I just didn't know you'd gotten so far yet. 18:34:56 > let x y = 1:y in return 3 >>= x >>= x 18:34:57 No instances for (GHC.Num.Num [[b0]], GHC.Num.Num [b0]) 18:34:58 arising from a u... 18:35:13 Wait 18:35:13 Deewiant: I take it it'll be released in 5 years when it's perfect 18:35:14 elliott: It implements ( by checking that the input is 'STRN' and then sets strn_enabled to true. A-Z check for strn_enabled and then do the STRN stuff. 18:35:29 > let x y = [1,y] in return 3 >>= x >>= x 18:35:30 Wow, that's disgusting. 18:35:31 [1,1,1,3] 18:35:48 You should implement all the fingerprints that way for speed IMO. 18:35:49 elliott: It's around 600 lines long (plus an old 1000-line stack impl) with a couple dozen globals. 18:36:09 Needless to say it doesn't pass Mycology. ;-P 18:36:28 Heh. 18:36:30 How far does it even get? 18:36:51 * elliott remembers all the wonderful Mycology-is-messed-up bugs in Shiro wistfully 18:37:17 I think it gets up to the y stuff. 18:37:58 case 'y': { cell n = cc_pop(cc); switch (n) { case 9: cc_push(cc, mushcursor2_get_pos(cursor).x); break; case 10: cc_push(cc, mushcursor2_get_pos(cursor).y); break; } break; } 18:38:09 Almost complete y implementation. 18:38:39 * elliott wonders what cc stands for. 18:38:48 Hmm, I wonder if I could micro-optimise my stack implementation for speed. 18:38:55 I think I even just used a strict linked list in shiro. 18:39:00 Though that may well be the best it gets. 18:39:06 elliott: I think I implemented fingerprints essentially that way in CCBI. Each A-Z got codegenned to a switch based on the topmost active fingerprint for that letter, or something. 18:39:13 Or then it was just in my TODO list. 18:39:35 cc stands for CellContainer because that's what my stack impl calls its datatype. 18:40:05 elliott: it stands for current continuation in all contexts 18:40:06 In Shiro I just did the boring thing of having a list-as-stack of Shiro ()s for each A-Z. 18:40:08 including motorbikes 18:40:14 And ran the top one. 18:40:28 elliott: Yeah, I did that in CCBI 1, at least. Not sure about 2. 18:41:06 Btw feel free to bikeshed a better name for something that can be either a stack or a deque. 18:41:09 I could probably do that codegen thing, though it'd involve either TH or cpp, neither of which I really want to use. 18:41:52 Deewiant: xixo 18:42:07 (OK, xiyo.) 18:42:48 I think I see what you're going for but I also think that's a bit too opaque. :-P 18:44:01 I was going for /.I.O/ 18:44:09 Right. 18:44:34 * elliott thinks "deque" is pretty opaque too. 18:44:48 It's standard, though. 18:46:40 This structure isn't :P 18:47:16 What do you mean? If it's a deque it's a deque. 18:47:40 I meant your xiyo. 18:47:49 "deque" is opaque but standard, "xiyo" is opaque but non-standard. 18:48:16 And CellContainer is not opaque, just verbose. :-P 18:48:45 Deewiant: How about "staque" 18:48:50 (This is a serious suggestion) 18:49:04 Heh, that could actually work. 18:49:39 I might go with that when I do my cleanup of it, thanks. 18:50:18 Deewiant: If you make a version based on hashing the stack elements with an SHA algorithm you could call it Shaquille O'Neal. 18:50:23 get it 18:50:31 ok I am really terrible these days 18:50:34 har har 18:51:51 I wonder how fast a Rust Funge could be. 18:52:12 Great Rust Funge = grunge 18:54:29 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:57:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:55 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:08:02 -!- augur has joined. 19:11:12 i'm learning about funge-98 19:11:19 this stack stack business is strange 19:11:33 it reminds me of that old CPU architecture that had a register to determine which register is the instruction pointer 19:12:19 lolwut 19:12:28 the real weirdness Deewiant is talking about is an extension fingerprint 19:12:37 some of them do really horrific stuff like that 19:13:35 I have made a few changes to the specification of Complex Numeric Print in RogueVM. 19:14:36 It has a lot more options than printf. 19:15:40 also concurrent funge-98 specifices lock-step exceution of threads? 19:15:42 wtf 19:16:00 kmc: It's not concurrent-concurrent. 19:16:06 It's there to make things more confusing, not for speed. 19:16:22 Also Funge-98 with continuous time barely makes any sense. 19:16:23 yeah cause shared memory multiprocessing isn't confusing 19:16:27 ;P 19:16:32 sure it would not have to be continuous time 19:16:52 you would still have discrete steps on each IP, you would just let implementations step the IPs in any order 19:17:01 * elliott wonders how true Funge-98 concurrency and TRDS would interact. 19:17:02 Vorpal was doing a fingerprint for completely asynchronous IPs 19:17:09 maybe with some liveness criterion 19:17:09 ATHR. 19:17:23 it is hard to prove anything about concurrent programs without some liveness criterion 19:17:29 but, it is hard to prove anything about concurrent programs 19:17:36 (http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#TRDS, http://www.rcfunge98.com/trds.html) 19:17:49 All the real multiprocessor-friendly Funge apps use ATHR instead. It's like POSIX threads to Funge-98. Or would, and would be, if it existed. 19:17:53 Huh 19:17:55 Not in scope: data constructor `Writer' 19:18:01 fungot: Would you want to be running on ATHR? 19:18:01 fizzie: i love how maxima can generate tex output is literally: case is preserved, special characters may be there, does not work 19:18:14 fungot: You could be thinking about babbling and running a brainfuck program at the SAME TIME. 19:18:14 fizzie: university programming one of those dating sims. i can't use 19:18:21 fungot: Except not since you run on a single-core machine. 19:18:22 fizzie: it would only take about an hour that he is a monk. ( not that i know much more about macrology as i do 19:19:48 Does the output it makes up have any relation to the input? 19:19:56 Sadly, no. 19:20:16 Sometimes it does by accident. 19:21:17 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:21:21 -!- ogrom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:21:30 In one sense invocations of ^bool have a relation to the input, because they probably eat random numbers from the PRNG sequence. 19:21:39 Er, the output. 19:21:44 FreeFull: the library was reorganized so Writer is now writer (and is just a function) 19:22:26 or actually a method, after they generalized it 19:22:40 oerjan: Ok 19:23:05 fizzie: When was the last time fungot got anything new? 19:23:06 elliott: evil can be an operator or anything. fnord! shub-niggurath! as a book to that particular type 19:23:18 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 19:23:27 A long, long time ago. 19:23:40 "last change: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:18:53 +0000" 19:23:44 as you can see, fungot is clearly in need of a new sacrifice 19:23:44 oerjan: then just do what you want and where :) it was repeating so much code using these idioms that their abbreviation is helpful? 19:23:52 Why didn't Learn You A Haskell get updated 19:24:11 I have a vague feeling I did a bugfix and didn't commit it. 19:24:30 FreeFull: dunno 19:25:59 http://sprunge.us/gWUA yeah that's a bugfix. 19:26:26 momus? 19:26:36 Deewiant: It's what it runs on, momus.zem.fi. 19:26:51 Okay. 19:28:17 I wonder what the first fix is all about. The second is the bugfix about <> combining in brainfuck bytecode translation. 19:29:14 It's some parameter to the babble randomizer. 19:29:21 I suppose it could be the number of rounds. 19:29:43 (Each round through ? generates two bits of randomness; c -> f would mean 20 -> 30 bits. 19:29:53 fizzie: Have you considered updating the IRC data set? That woudl be exciting. 19:30:27 You now have 15 instead of 11 on the top of the stack when hitting that v next to the _, if I read that right. 19:30:29 Think how many lenses fungot would talk about! 19:30:29 GreyKnight: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 19:30:29 GreyKnight: the fallback plan is to be root to sniff keyboard on *nix 19:30:52 fungot: brilliant idea! 19:30:52 GreyKnight: gcc fnord infopage doesn't mention how one'd get the number of inversions in the vector, but fnord 19:31:09 Deewiant: Yeah, and if I read the \4* ... ? 0/1/2/3+ \ 1- |loop kinda thing right, it's the round count. 19:31:31 (That wasn't actual Funge-98, that was kind of like a pseudocode notation.) 19:35:14 -!- Bike has joined. 19:40:45 Pseudofunge 19:42:39 Bike: you should write my funge-98 interpreter for me once you're done with eodermdrome 19:42:52 ooh, someone's implementing eodermdrome? 19:43:19 /fine/ 19:43:21 assholes 19:43:30 aren't there already funge-98 interpreters, though 19:43:39 ais523: yes, Bike. we are holding him to it 19:43:47 Bike: yes. in fact I already wrote one. but I want to write version 2 of it 19:43:49 Bike: several 19:43:54 and by "I want to write", I mean I want you to write 19:44:28 so what makes it version two, as opposed to version one 19:44:28 I notice a theme running through elliott's projects :-U 19:44:32 aside from being ghostcoded 19:44:53 it should be faster and have more features and cleaner code. mainly it should make Deewiant feel inferior somehow 19:45:01 on my desk by tomorrow please 19:45:17 why do you get a desk 19:45:25 Your Christmas bonus is dependent on completion 19:46:10 Bike: the desk is for collecting things other people do for me 19:46:16 where else would I put them 19:46:40 I know where you can stick them '_' 19:46:42 What timezone do you want that tomorrow in? 19:47:16 zzo38: all of them 19:47:37 maybe you could just put them in like, a bin 19:47:51 then it would be easier to get, say, liquids other people do for you 19:47:59 what if i want to implement befunge as an actual fungus, for example 19:48:05 it would eat your desk! 19:48:17 we are growing a bunch of fungus in my room 19:48:22 oyster mushrooms and king trumpet mushrooms 19:48:27 are they befunge interpreters 19:48:33 Is desk good to eat? 19:48:43 kmc: you typed that second line before I could make a drugs joke 19:48:44 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:48:47 you are ruining my "kmc experience" 19:48:52 haha 19:48:56 no i don't think they're befunge interpreters 19:49:02 shame 19:49:11 zzo38: depends, how good are you at digesting cellulose? 19:49:17 On a scale of one to ten. 19:49:20 unless they are running a program whose meaning is "spread a bunch of wispy mycelium throughout a jar of rye grain" 19:49:26 Bike: I don't mean me! 19:49:59 I think the worst thing about GHC is how it handles type variables. 19:50:24 when you get an error about how it can't match x_t8z with y7 there's no real way you can trace those back to the type variables in your actual source code without a ton of work 19:50:40 it would be nice if it used a richer representation that kept track of the *source location* and actual original name of the type variable 19:50:43 *variables 19:50:57 and also represented bindings in a smarter way so it doesn't have to keep renaming type variables internally all the time 19:51:08 I approve of fungus-based computation 19:51:35 it's a shame that physarum machines is so expensive, i'd be all over that shite. not that slime molds are actually fungi, but, you know, baby steps. 19:52:02 woah 19:52:04 i did not know about these 19:52:15 about type variables? 19:52:19 i hear slime molds aren't even _officially_ fungi any more 19:52:30 well they're not 19:52:32 Maybe we can simulate the known behaviours of slime molds and figure out if they're TC 19:52:53 so now they have no kingdom? 19:52:54 or what? 19:53:18 A kingdom, a kingdom! My horse for a kingdom! 19:53:24 «In more strict terms, slime molds comprise the mycetozoan group of the amoebozoa» well ok 19:53:47 oerjan: they're fruit 19:54:06 ok 19:54:06 They're delicious is what they are 19:54:12 which reminds me, do you all have a favorite phylum 19:54:20 mine is placozoa, because there's only one thing in it 19:56:28 * GreyKnight hears the sound of frantic googling 19:56:43 it's latin for "some flat shit" 19:56:51 they're even simpler than sponges, like how do you even manage that? 19:57:12 Are they simpler than befunges? 19:57:22 elliott: O KAY 19:57:50 19:57:23 > sequence [1,2,3] 19:57:50 19:57:25 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num (m0 a0)) 19:57:50 19:57:25 arising from a use of `e_1123' 19:57:50 19:57:26 Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (GHC.Num.Num (m0 a0))No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 [a0])) 19:57:53 19:57:28 arising from a use of `M4696126599521770064.show_M4696126599521770064' 19:57:56 19:57:30 Possible fix: 19:57:58 19:57:33 add an instance declaration for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 [a0])) 19:58:01 good lambdabot errors 19:58:04 I wonder what's up with that M thing. 19:58:05 oerjan: (nethack reference) 19:58:06 those are some hella names right there 19:58:22 o_@ 19:59:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:02:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slime_mold#In_popular_culture 20:02:27 the slime mold is widely agreed to be the best character in nusicaa. 20:10:48 For some reason I managed to read that as "the best character in Indiana Jones movies". 20:10:58 It was confusing, since I don't remember any very prominent slime molds in them. 20:11:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:14:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:15:27 You never watched Indiana Jones and the Amulet of Yendor?! 20:16:41 fizzie: How do you read "nusicdaa" as "the Indiana Jones movies"? 20:16:48 *nusicaa (*[sic]?) 20:17:06 *nausicaä 20:17:33 oerjan: hence the *[sic]. 20:17:47 TECHNICALLY *Nausicaä take that 20:17:56 nsc 20:18:15 THAT'S WHAT I SAID, NAUSICAÄ 20:18:28 Well you didn't capitalize it. 20:18:34 Though I guess you just made up for that. 20:20:15 I could overpedant by poniting out that "in Nausicaä" still isn't quite pedantic-accurate. 20:20:19 * elliott gcc -pedantic 20:20:44 the elliott anime compiler collection 20:21:16 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 20:24:02 gah it's so hard to google a satisfactory "that's the joke" picture 20:24:17 oerjan's true suffering 20:24:25 that's the joke, oerjan 20:24:32 ooh 20:29:02 elliott: Well, you have to admit, they *are* quite similar, stringwise. 20:29:39 fizzie: Also contentwise? 20:30:18 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:32:07 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:32:10 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:33:46 -!- rodgort` has joined. 20:34:01 elliott: I... guess? They have moving pictures. 20:34:29 And people? 20:34:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 20:34:44 -!- ssue has quit (*.net *.split). 20:34:44 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 20:35:17 irc.splitnode.net \/ 20:35:35 Hey my head disappeared \o/ Better 20:39:25 -!- ais523_ has joined. 20:40:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:40:07 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 20:41:27 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 20:43:21 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 20:45:41 (You think I'm kidding? Why do you think the packet length in ATM is 48 instead of 32 or 64? Yep, the average of two competing proposals over length...) 20:45:43 please let this be true 20:46:04 I really hope 20:47:32 -!- oklofok has quit (*.net *.split). 20:47:32 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:47:32 -!- hagb4rd has quit (*.net *.split). 20:47:33 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:10 -!- oklofok has joined. 20:52:31 In that vein, why don't we do the same with array indices? http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2006-05/msg00281.html 20:55:58 ais523: That's what Wikipedia says 20:56:14 The choice of 48 bytes was political rather than technical.[5] When the CCITT (now ITU-T) was standardizing ATM, parties from the United States wanted a 64-byte payload because this was felt to be a good compromise in larger payloads optimized for data transmission and shorter payloads optimized for real-time applications like voice; parties from Europe wanted 32-byte payloads because the small size (and 20:56:15 therefore short transmission times) simplify voice applications with respect to echo cancellation. Most of the European parties eventually came around to the arguments made by the Americans, but France and a few others held out for a shorter cell length. With 32 bytes, France would have been able to implement an ATM-based voice network with calls from one end of France to the other requiring no echo 20:56:17 cancellation. 48 bytes (plus 5 header bytes = 53) was chosen as a compromise between the two sides. 20:56:20 well, that probably increases the chance of it being true 20:56:30 It even has a reference 20:56:49 To conference proceedings, no less 20:57:24 i love how every component of the web uses a different method for escaping special characters 20:57:31 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:57:41 apparently in CSS you write a backslash followed by however many hex digits you want 20:58:00 if you want to escape a one-byte character, followed by an unescaped letter a-f, you are screwed 20:58:03 %5c 20:58:06 No \&? 20:58:08 you can insert a space and the parser will eat the space 20:58:20 also apparently Internet Explorer lets you embed javascript in style sheets 20:58:28 Yes. 20:58:29 Perl has \x{6}f 20:58:42 kmc: why would you even want to do that? 20:59:05 the web is so awful for security 20:59:05 Haskell has \128166\& 20:59:18 this idea that parsers should try their hardest to ignore errors 20:59:26 Everything is awful for security. :-( 20:59:31 and make some random guess at the meaning of a malformed document 20:59:33 sure 20:59:41 kmc: well XHTML tried to change that 20:59:44 and see where it ended up… 20:59:46 well, you may recall that that's sort of necessary since nobody writes conforming html >_> 20:59:49 but there are some design principles that can help security, and the web takes basically the opposite designs in most cases 20:59:59 Bike: and the reason nobody writes conforming HTML is that browsers accept this nonsense! 21:00:04 yeah 21:00:08 it's a vicious cycle that we are pretty much stuck with 21:00:08 Bike: Google left the off their homepage to save bandwidth 21:00:08 it's a vicious cycle of bullshit 21:00:10 famously 21:00:16 you're shitting me. 21:00:26 apparently they're so large it actually makes a measurable difference 21:00:33 goddamn 21:00:37 * elliott thinks you can argue Postel's law both ways from a security POV, but won't bother. 21:00:49 what's the argument in favor? 21:00:55 Bike: you can check, it's not like the source of Google's homepage is secret 21:01:01 kmc: so, what does this book say about user agents? because they're the most hilarious web bullshit i'm aware of 21:01:03 kmc: I just said I won't bother! 21:01:07 haven't got there yet 21:01:08 * elliott wonders why google has a still. 21:01:09 elliott: :( :( :( 21:01:19 *G? 21:01:23 «Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.151 Chrome/18.0.1025.151 Safari/535.19» 21:01:31 now the question is, what browser am i actually using 21:02:04 Not Internet Explorer, that's for sure 21:02:07 and google.com has an here. maybe it's because i'm getting it through spdy and that's more savings than http 21:02:50 wow, apparently the newest IE's user agent is «Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.6; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0; InfoPath.2; SLCC1; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 3gpp-gba UNTRUSTED/1.0» 21:02:52 Yes, they even have head and body tags and so on. 21:02:54 I don't know why. 21:03:11 My Chromium doesn't have that Chromium/foo bit, I guess that's Ubuntu messing about. 21:03:36 Bike: "UNTRUSTED/1.0"? 21:03:38 And I think those .NET things only show up if you have them installed. 21:03:45 (At least, one would hope so.) 21:03:47 ais523: no idea, i copied it from the internet 21:03:57 I'm also amused it doesn't claim to be WebKit 21:04:06 still claims to be mozilla though. 21:04:24 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/17.0 21:04:38 everything claims to be mozilla, that's the web standard way of saying you support frames 21:04:46 yeah, i know. 21:04:57 though does anyone use frames any more anyway 21:04:58 Hmm, I should disable Mozilla/ in my user agent. 21:04:58 if only browsers didn't support frames any more 21:05:11 Bike: Java's official documentation still does 21:05:22 fantastic. 21:05:29 Re. UNTRUSTED/1.0, http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wmlprogramming/message/34420 (requires cookies) 21:05:52 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/537.4 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/12.10 Chromium/22.0.1229.94 Chrome/22.0.1229.94 Safari/537.4 21:06:28 why would IE be displaying something J2ME-related? 21:06:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:07:03 Deewiant: "requires cookies", really. 21:07:25 ais523: If the J2ME thing is being run inside IE? Or if it just put a IE string in front to look more legitimate 21:07:55 J2ME is used to write applications for very early smartphones 21:07:55 elliott: I debated it for a number of seconds and then figured this channel is one of the few places somebody might complain about it so might as well 21:08:02 pre-iPhone 21:08:07 I don't think it's used for anything else 21:08:18 Ah, it doesn't support applets, darn 21:08:21 elliott: the fun fact is that I already had 10 cookies from Yahoo! 21:08:28 because of my webmail account with them 21:08:35 yes, the fun fact, there is only one 21:08:48 Deewiant: I'm more curious as to how you knew :P 21:09:05 elliott: he probably has cookies off by default 21:09:08 or set to prompt, like me and Vorpal 21:09:20 That seems overly unreasonable for Deewiant. 21:09:46 elliott: I like using browser settings which reduce the scope for websites to annoy me 21:09:47 Off by default and a Firefox extension with which I can quickly enable them per-site, and temporarily/session cookies only/all. 21:10:03 hi 21:10:14 Cookie Monster, it seems to be called. 21:10:40 * elliott has been vaguely considering blocking JS by default for RAM-related reasons recently, though I should probably just enable some swap. 21:11:02 (I also run Noscript, Adblock, and Ghostery. I'm like that.) 21:11:24 (My Firefox startup time is like 10x what it is by default.) 21:11:42 You weird Firefox users and your extensions that are worth a damn. 21:11:47 We Chrome people don't have problems like that. 21:12:06 I use ghostery and adblock on chrome~ 21:12:06 I've considered forging referers by default but that tends to break things silently so it's a bit too much of a pain. 21:12:15 elliott: #1 reason I got 16GB of RAM in my new system was so that I can run Firefox nicely. 21:12:28 Gregor: I bet it wasn't enough. 21:12:33 Actually, it was! 21:12:35 isn't firefox still 32-bit-only though? :< 21:12:39 Deewiant: I have a referer forger on by default on a few sites 21:12:41 Fiora: No? 21:12:48 I originally installed it for esolangs.org after that hilarious incident with the spam filter 21:12:51 elliott: do you remember that? 21:12:54 Fiora: IME Chrome's Adblock Plus is really shitty. I still use it, but it's really shitty. 21:12:58 ais523: yes 21:12:59 ais523: Yes, I enable it on some sites as well, but only manually. I default to normal referers. 21:13:11 oh... right, the no support for 64-bit firefox thing is a windows thing 21:13:18 I think referers are the worst thing about HTTP 21:13:18 Oh, hahaha, Windows. 21:13:21 I believe there are quite a few frameless doclets for javadoc, though. (But the Standard Doclet indeed is still very framy.) 21:13:21 HTTPS Everywhere also breaks some sites, but it gets updated and all and generally works well. 21:13:22 Windows amuses me. 21:13:32 I remember something about how their JS recompiler was still 32-bit only so 64-bit was slower 21:13:35 I am paranoid about opening new tabs before pasting in URLs just in case it leaks the referer or whatever. 21:13:36 but that might have changed 21:13:49 Deewiant: HTTPS Everywhere is really nice until the day you try to log in with some stupid DNS-redirecting wifi hotspot ;) 21:13:59 elliott: if you type the address by hand, it doesn't refer, IIRC 21:14:09 Deewiant: My only experience with HTTPS Everywhere was someone asking someone else to re-enable HTTPS on their site after moving servers because apparently HTTPS Everywhere never, ever forgets that a site supports HTTPS, even if it stops working. 21:14:26 :) 21:14:30 Gregor: You can always disable it temporarily. Haven't run into anything that stupid, fortunately. :-P 21:14:31 My desktop is constantly running out of its four gigabytes. :/ :\ :/ :\ -- and it only has two DIMM slots, and 4G DDR2 DIMMs are annoyingly expensive. 21:14:31 Also HTTPS is, like, slow. :( 21:14:46 fizzie: I have 4 gigs too! 21:14:49 fizzie: Do you have any swap? 21:14:54 Yes. 21:14:56 I'm not sure whether enabling it will make things go smoother or just make the churns even worse. 21:15:04 I don't know. They are quite bad. 21:15:07 Having hundreds of Chrome tabs is... not very sustainable. 21:15:23 * elliott has to open a new window every once in a while because otherwise the tabs get too small to see the favicons. 21:15:25 Use SSH for secure connections rather than HTTPS 21:15:41 I want tree-style tabs for chrome :< 21:15:43 Gregor: You can always disable it temporarily. Haven't run into anything that stupid, fortunately. :-P // it's not enormously difficult to get around, but with hotspots, I've found it easier to just momentarily open Chrome 8-D 21:15:53 It would be nice if the customisability of Firefox extensions wasn't tied to such a shitty browser. 21:16:19 Meh, I think the browser's fine. 21:16:31 You probably have a jillionbyte of RAM. 21:16:32 elliott: From what I recall last time I did it, it drops from 90% used into something like 25% used if I close Chromium, then goes back up to maybe ~60% used if I reopen it and let it open the saved tabs. 21:16:49 Also whenever its layouting/styling/text formatting/whatever differs from Chrome I always find Firefox's handling distinctly worse. 21:16:52 Chrome doesn't even have ctrl-shift-enter and company on the URL bar, only ctrl-enter (IIRC). 21:17:09 I have 8 gigabytes. 21:17:12 Chrome doesn't have /-searching. 21:17:15 Therefore it's fucking worthless. 21:17:18 fizzie: I often have to mash -2 killall -9 chromium because my computer is frozen as heck. 21:17:23 fizzie: Then I roepen it and let it restore the tabs. 21:17:36 (It's nice how killall -9 > killall for Chromium precisely because otherwise you lose the "restore tabs" functionality...) 21:17:40 (By nice I mean it sucks) 21:17:49 This is the non-shitty browser you're talking about? 21:17:51 Sometimes I deliberately kill -9 it before turning the computer off so I can restore the tabs. 21:18:00 Chromium "Private" memory use 2'086'860k, well, that's not so bad. 21:18:05 Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks 21:18:37 fizzie: That's more than my Firefox's virtual usage 21:18:41 The problem is that people look at the memory use of their browser and think that's a good metric. 21:18:44 elliott: That's just your attitude 21:18:49 Even though your browser WILL run better if it snarfs more memory. 21:18:58 It's just a trick of actually being able to give it back when somebody else needs it. 21:19:02 Deewiant: Anyway Firefox also rewards kill -9 in the same way. 21:19:16 Even moreso, since it supports partial tab restores and even recursive tab restores ("the ineiros method"). 21:19:25 elliott: Kinda. You can always go to about:home to get to the last tabs, no matter how you close it. 21:19:33 Man, the ineiros method is the best method. 21:19:37 Gregor: don't you mean "fnarfs more" 21:19:41 elliott: Nope. 21:19:48 fizzie: does he still use it 21:19:49 elliott: This is snarfing, it's different. 21:19:58 elliott: I haven't asked lately. I will ask now. 21:20:06 I probably won't receive a timely answer. 21:24:40 -!- Gregor has set topic: ⚣ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 21:25:39 I suddenly wonder if ⚣.com is free, but feel I shouldn't check it from work. 21:26:55 looks free from here 21:27:16 Welp. Time to build a gay porn empire, I suppose. 21:30:26 Gregor: I don't know if that character is in any of the scripts of the languages Verizon likes: http://www.verisigninc.com/assets/idn-valid-language-tags.pdf 21:30:32 For some reason I'd guess "no". 21:30:49 lol Verizon 21:30:55 Verisign. 21:30:56 Gah. 21:31:01 Same thing. :p 21:31:04 IIRC, .org has no such restrictions? 21:31:10 Or maybe I'm imagining things. 21:31:17 .org is not Verisign, though. 21:31:18 they should merge 21:31:26 fizzie: Yes, hence why I'm mentioning them. 21:31:33 fizzie: huh, so I was right 21:31:41 someone at a seminar asked if anyone knew what Verisign did 21:31:43 "The org domain registry allows the registration of selected internationalized domain names (IDNs) as second-level domains.[11] For German, Danish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Korean, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, and Swedish IDNs this has been possible since 2005. Spanish IDN registrations have been possible since 2007." 21:31:45 I said they owned .com and .net 21:31:49 the speaker said .com and .org 21:31:49 fizzie: If I can't get ⚣.com, maybe I can get ⚣.org. … the nonprofit of gayness. 21:32:00 Gregor: you want it at .xxx, obviously 21:32:11 ⚣.xxx MUST be registered (if possible)? 21:32:19 There's no way everybody missed that. 21:32:28 is .xxx even a valid tld? 21:32:51 Bike: unfortunately. 21:33:14 "No, .xxx does not копирайт, 101домен support Internationalized Domain Names" sad. 21:33:22 ... 21:33:30 Where did the cyrillic bits come from. 21:33:34 Some kind of a thing. 21:33:48 Where's that official anti-.xxx thing? 21:33:51 An RFC or something IIRC. 21:33:58 Man, why is everything full of stupid nowadays? I hit two "put stupid stuff programmatically on clipboard when selecting text" websites recently within hours. 21:34:26 That's why you use anti-stupid browser extensions. Or I do, anyway. 21:34:44 I didn't use to have to. 21:34:46 Bike: it was added recently, amid a /lot/ of controversy 21:34:56 Anyway, I am under the impression that pretty much all the TLDs that do accept IDNs only whitelist scripts of specific languages, asince nobody likes IDN spoofery stuff. 21:35:02 I remember hearing about people yelling about it in the american congress, but still, what 21:35:04 Deewiant: Is there one that specifically blocks that copy nonsense? 21:35:06 That would be nice. 21:35:13 elliott: Not that I know of. 21:35:20 Noscript handles it fine, of course. 21:35:35 Here we go: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3675 21:35:45 "sex Considered Dangerous" -- IETF 21:35:52 man, i can't find mentifex's domain names listing :( 21:36:08 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:36:18 ooh mentifex 21:36:36 mentifex is actually my pastor. 21:37:32 Possibly just about:config dom.event.clipboardevents.enabled -> false would stop that on Firefox. 21:37:42 "dom.event.clipboardevents.enabled lets websites get notifications if the user copies, pastes, or cuts something from a web page, and it lets them know which part of the page had been selected. The emitting of the oncopy, oncut and onpaste events are controlled by this preference." 21:37:57 why is that even an event 21:38:23 I suppose all those fancy smart document editor things might use it for something. 21:38:34 for those sites that dump their URLs to your clipboard when you paste from them, duh 21:38:55 I wonder if it fires every time I select something, since selection equals copying. 21:39:41 Clearly the solution is to use dillo2. 21:39:41 Our department-internal wiki opens the "edit" page if I doubleclick on anything, which is annoying because I use it for selecting words. 21:39:43 I think it even does CSS now? 21:39:48 fizzie: ugh I hate that too 21:40:00 It's a MoinMoin or something. 21:40:02 fizzie: Ugh, I've experienced that kind of Wiki. 21:40:44 And Atlassian Confluence flips the sidebar open and closed every time I press the Windows key, i.e. every time I switch from the workspace. 21:40:56 btw, #esoteric's opinions on the recently discovered fact that any web page open in IE can determine where your mouse cursor is, regardless of whether the cursor is interacting with IE (or even whether IE's minimized)? 21:41:15 ais523: that sounds theoretically bad but practically harmless 21:41:16 ais523: lol IE 21:41:38 elliott: the worst exploit I've heard of is reading presses into onscreen keyboards 21:41:44 *from 21:41:47 err, hmm 21:41:54 correct both ways but you need to parse it differently 21:42:06 #esoteric's opinion on that zero-day Samsung SmartTV thing that reportedly lets other people look/listen into your living room through the for-Skype-and-such webcam and mic? 21:42:15 (Maybe without 1984 jokes.) 21:42:30 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 21:42:31 fizzie: lol… shit, products I actually vaguely care about :( 21:42:46 fizzie: it's hilarious that TVs have got smart enough that that mistake can even exist 21:42:58 also people have been doing that with computer webcams for ages, haven't they? 21:43:02 s/smart/loaded with useless features/ 21:43:05 Yes, they sure have. 21:43:11 the "please place your Mac near hot steam" incident was hilarious too 21:43:29 Back Orifice had camera/microphone commands for spying, IIRC. 21:43:37 The solution is to use Linux so that your webcam does not actually work in the first place. 21:43:46 And this was at the very least a decade ago. Probably 15 years. 21:43:53 elliott: Tragically, they recently added support for virtually every webcam there is to Linux. 21:43:55 So it probably works. 21:43:57 Not that ~anyone had a camera, though. 21:43:59 ais523: yes, they have, which is why most newer built-in webcams on laptops have lights that are linked in hardware so that all recording turns on the light 21:44:38 also apparently Internet Explorer lets you embed javascript in style sheets <-- FLAT WHAT 21:44:40 Put ductape on the camera 21:44:42 I vaguely recall that story about school giving out laptops to students, then using the webcams for peepery, and answering questions about that webcam LED that "it's just some random bug, just ignore it". 21:44:50 That was not very flat/. 21:45:14 FLAT ELLIOTT 21:45:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District "Students were particularly troubled by the momentary flickering of their webcams' green activation lights, which several students reported would periodically turn on when the camera wasn't in use, signaling that the webcam had been turned on.[8][22][24][47] Student Katerina Perech recalled: "It was just really creepy."[24] ... 21:45:39 yeah and it interacts with that escaping too 21:45:40 ... Some school officials reportedly denied that it was anything other than a technical glitch, and offered to have the laptops examined if students were concerned." 21:45:43 Yeah, that story. 21:45:53 * elliott wonders what, exactly, they were thinking. 21:45:59 so you can write "color: expression\028 alert \028 1 \029 \029" 21:46:05 "The suit alleged that, in what was dubbed the "WebcamGate" scandal" please kill me 21:46:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals_with_%22-gate%22_suffix 21:46:40 the US really needs to get its shit together, wrt naming shit 21:46:47 fizzie: wow holy shit that's creepy 21:46:49 Deewiant: Ooh, Chisugate is there. 21:46:51 * elliott wonders what the kid was actually disciplined for. Give me my details Wikipedia!!!! 21:46:59 Deewiant: Though as a redlink. 21:47:03 fizzie: Another "please kill me" type thing. 21:47:07 At least IMO. 21:47:16 oh good, there is a "gategate" 21:47:33 oh, I heard about that Finnish piracy thing 21:47:37 not that it had become a -gate 21:47:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB9JgxhXW5w 21:48:02 "Flakegate – Photographs of the wedding reception of TV presenter Anthea Turner was used to promote Cadbury's new chocolate bar, Snowflake despite being paid £450,000 by OK! magazine for the exclusive deal of the wedding itself. The publicity stunt was widely criticised by tabloid press and further damaged her career, which has yet to recover." 21:48:05 * GreyKnight kills elliott (ElliottGate) 21:48:07 these gates are really bad 21:48:13 I didn't really bother following it. I think they just paid half of what was demanded in the end, or something? 21:48:28 widely criticised by the tabloid press 21:48:40 "Fajitagate" 21:48:46 "Horsegate" 21:48:51 *everything* is criticised by the tabloids, including other tabloids 21:49:00 * elliott anticipates "Irrigate" 21:49:01 -!- sivoais has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:49:13 "Billygate": what, no gruff? 21:49:28 "Pardongate" 21:49:34 hm, does the british phone hacking thing have a -gate 21:49:38 "PolarBeargate" THAT'S CHEATING 21:49:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:50:13 Bike: Hackgate? 21:50:16 heimdalsgate like a promethean curse 21:50:24 fizzie: oh, yeah. :( 21:50:48 kmc++ 21:51:00 Apparently there's a swedish "gategate", which was named as such.. because it happened near a faregate 21:51:03 I got to the "in popular culture" section but I didn't realise until I read a few. 21:51:12 This webcam thing is bonkers 21:51:19 truly a sad indictment of our -gateing times 21:51:26 -gating? 21:51:36 suffixgate 21:52:16 shm-reduplicationgate, shm-reduplicationgate 21:52:30 xorgate 21:53:00 ...not sure what kind of scandal would mandate such a name, though 21:54:06 arguing over whether it should be eXclusive OR or EOR 21:54:06 -gate-gate 21:54:22 Gardengate 21:54:37 gaitgate 21:54:57 EOR sounds like Eeyore 21:55:03 fizzie: I assume they deliberately haven't revealed what the kid was "disciplined" for? Child privacy &c 21:55:24 fri-gate 21:56:10 privacygate 21:57:37 I think the most outrageous thing about the webcam lawsuit is the school crying innocence and how they're going to fight these ~~horrible accusations~~ 21:59:19 my computer's built-in webcam has a physical shutter on it. seems like an obvious anti-1337cyberhacker measure but apparently not? 21:59:40 hm, does the british phone hacking thing have a -gate 21:59:55 I've only ever heard it referred to as 'the phone hacking scandal' or somesuch. 22:00:06 -!- MDude has joined. 22:00:11 well since fizzie mentioned it i remembered that i've heard it called "hackgate" 22:00:20 which is kind of weird because i've never seen it in the american media, but oh well. 22:00:24 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 22:00:48 'The allegedly secure parser implementation included in [RFC 4627] unintentionally permits rogue JSON responses to freely increment or decrement any program variables that happen to consist solely of the letters a, e, f, l, n, r, s, t, u, plus digits' 22:00:56 wow 22:01:58 kmc: link? 22:02:07 Bike: wow, I don't think I've ever seen a webcam with a physical shutter 22:02:18 lol, you're right 22:02:28 it's just a piece of plastic. 22:02:32 kmc: link me too, I want to see this in action 22:02:32 "A JSON text can be safely passed into JavaScript's eval() function if all the characters not enclosed in strings are in the set of characters that form JSON tokens." 22:02:47 what. 22:02:50 /[^,:{}\[\]0-9.\-+Eaeflnr-u \n\r\t]/ is one of the regexes 22:02:55 oh wow 22:03:00 So I guess this allows you to do stuff like {"foo": e++} 22:03:18 FLAT WHAT 22:03:41 I would hope that anyone remotely versed in security would know that sanitizing with a regex probably isn't adequate 22:04:06 uh that's a quote from a dead tree book 22:04:17 yeah also 22:04:18 flat what 22:04:22 i don't quite understand why you aren't allowed, e.g. z 22:04:23 (why are our whats flat today?) 22:04:34 kmc: books don't exist 22:04:38 someone let all the air out of them 22:04:45 elliott: because z isn't in any json token, i guess? 22:04:57 well what json tokens have those letters even 22:05:30 Which token has z 22:05:41 there's true and false 22:05:46 The tokens apat from strings are true, false, null and numbers 22:05:50 apart* 22:06:04 "The school elected to enable TheftTrack to allow school district employees to secretly and remotely activate a tiny camera webcam embedded in the student's laptop, above the laptop's screen.[17][25][26][27] That allowed school officials to secretly take photos through the webcam, of whatever was in front of it and in its line of sight" 22:06:09 why does this article explain how a webcam works 22:06:22 elliott, This is so weird, I randomly have Portal in my steam collection. I never bought it. And the payment history on Steam doesn't list it. Note that I don't object to this. It is just totally weird. 22:06:50 maybe someone gifted it to you or something 22:07:11 I don't think anyone knows my steam user name, it is not like I use the "friend list" feature of steam 22:11:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:11:59 Bike: sanitizing with a regex can work if you have a sufficiently well-defined acceptable input 22:12:48 one of my colleagues is working on a system which regexes the I/O of a hardware subsystem to prevent non-accepted inputs 22:13:33 in fact, regex comparison is how we even compare the systems to validate them 22:13:41 (regexes have the nice property of actually being comparable) 22:13:50 (unlike things like functions) 22:14:20 ais523, I doubt PCRE is comparable, even if you exclude the "invoke external code to match this" feature 22:14:32 Vorpal: well, mathematical regular expressions 22:14:35 PCRE is an interesting point 22:14:46 Vorpal: It was the Portal Ghost. 22:14:49 right, math regex are comparable 22:14:52 I'm not sure what computational class it is 22:14:55 it's sub-TC, but super-PDA 22:15:06 you can do CFGs with backreferences, right? 22:15:08 Vorpal: I recall it being free to grab for a couple of days once 22:15:20 you might've grabbed it then 22:15:33 It was free to grab, yes. 22:15:39 I grubbed it then. 22:16:13 That was maybe a year and a bit ago. 22:16:45 FireFly, recently? I haven't used steam for all that long, maybe a year or a bit more than that 22:16:55 and this thing must have happened fairly recently 22:16:58 I think it was a bit more than a year ago :P 22:17:20 I didn't have more than a couple of games until a few months back when I added in all the humble bundles 22:17:26 so that doesn't make any sense 22:17:49 ais523: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=809842 claims that they're at most LBA 22:18:37 oh yeah, obviously they're LBA 22:18:45 September 2011, I'd say. Though maybe they did something Portal-related more recently too? 22:20:03 Everyone who already had Portal 2 got a 75% discount coupon for Portal 2, at least. 22:20:28 (For a limited time.) 22:20:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JScript.Encode "The encoding is a simple polyalphabetic substitution using three alphabets." 22:20:52 what the fuck 22:21:12 fizzie: everyone who had Portal 2 got a discount for Portal 2? This seems useful. 22:21:16 lol, obfuscated code? 22:21:59 Deewiant: that post is busy trying to invent Thue 22:22:02 and not getting there 22:22:09 it gets close though 22:23:12 kmc: "Weaknesses: it is busted open wide enough to drive a double-decker bus through" 22:25:01 GreyKnight: Just on the off chance you had friends you could inflict Portal 2 on. 22:25:28 oh, right 22:25:40 I don't have Portal 2 or very many friends 22:26:02 I think I heard of something like that camera thing quite a while ago. 22:26:07 ...ugh December 22:26:23 MDude: the camera thing *was* a while ago, so may be the same thing! 22:26:53 Probably, then. 22:31:21 i assume (well, hope) that the engineers implementing JScript.Encode knew how worthless it is 22:31:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:31:42 "*shrug*, if management say so..." 22:31:48 http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ so few single-core systems nowadays. 22:31:51 whatever keeps the suits happy 22:31:51 it seems like a feature to appease the same kind of people who install a right click handler that pops up a dialog saying 'COPYRIGHT PROTECTED!!!' 22:32:01 kmc: YES 22:32:37 interesting documentary bout some philosophical implications of gödels theorems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZ_9gQfitc&list=UUpBJxyp3T3GY1UExToSveRQ&index=5 22:32:41 "haha u cant copy my pictures" 22:33:14 My brother said he has been able to copy such pictures by dragging them into the location bar. 22:33:38 hagb4rd: i think this guy needs to work on his intonation a bit 22:33:40 I have very little clue what you're talking about with JSON/Javascript. Did I miss some part of it from before I showed up? 22:33:45 elocution, there's the word. 22:33:47 i mean i don't think the "suits" have to be idiots either 22:33:51 they just know what will make customers happy 22:34:07 bike: it's not that bad. gibe it a chance 22:34:28 or not 22:34:47 plus apparently he's reading a godel paper? 22:34:52 zzo38: oh, I didn't think of that one 22:34:53 in which case i could just read tha paper 22:34:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:03 Hey, I got that Steam "Big Picture" thing on. They must've released it. 22:35:15 Bike: Using video where text would do is gonna be the death of the internet -_- 22:35:24 he's not only quting gödel but.. sure you could do this 22:35:34 I have seen programming tutorials done in video. FLAT WHAT 22:36:26 well, i kind of liked the game-of-life in J video i saw once. but that's because seeing it in the REPL helped somehow 22:36:32 it's not based on his work. this guy just put some quotes and pics and dramatical music ;) into what we probably call a documentary 22:38:32 this should me informative but also entertaining.. giving you some points to start a further investigation 22:38:43 if interersted 22:43:20 Hey, I got that Steam "Big Picture" thing on. They must've released it. <-- yeah it showed up like last week or so 22:45:48 (especially l love this background with the lemmings juming off the clip :) 22:48:43 "Valve's Jeri Ellsworth has told Engadget that public beta testing of Steam hardware could begin next year, saying that the goal of Valve's hardware efforts is "to make Steam games more fun to play in your living room." --" Yes, that sounds like something they want the Big Picture mode too. 22:49:01 what was that tool to put cd images onto USB drives? 22:49:06 I forgot the name of it 22:49:11 I see too much using video where text should do. 22:49:17 Vorpal: UNetbootin? 22:49:20 thanks 22:49:31 now to find a large enough USB stick... 22:49:34 (I think it's kind of a silly name.) 22:51:06 "Unetbootin?" "No, I'm USBootin." 22:51:35 zzo38: next time it'll be plain text i promise 22:52:23 Debian or xubuntu? Which is best if you want the least hassle over time, I don't mind a slightly more annoying installer as long as it doesn't throw crap at me like modern ubuntu, or becomes a pain once I want to upgrade a year or two down the line. 22:52:58 also it is going on top of an existing md raid & lvm2 setup 22:55:16 elliott, fizzie ^ 22:55:36 Debian's installer will be able to set up RAID/LVM2 if you ask it for an advanced install. 22:55:40 Xubuntu's, unlikely. 22:55:50 well that is a plus for debian certainly 22:56:03 * elliott hasn't used Debian or Xubuntu in a while. 22:56:07 elliott, basically I need to reuse the existing /home, which is already on top of existing raid and lvm2 22:56:21 I'm not going to repartition the whole thing 22:56:39 Ubuntu "alternative install" thing can/could do raid/lvm2. I haven't had that particular use case, but I would think it wakes up md and lvm2 volumes and all that. 22:56:47 okay 22:56:48 isn't the alternative install just debian's installer 22:56:50 does it even still exist 22:57:00 there is an alternative installer download at least 22:57:02 anyway i don't like xfce 22:57:14 and what about throwing crap at me? Does modern xubuntu suffer from that as well? 22:57:25 what about other stuff, I haven't used debian for ages 22:57:28 It's at least very similar to installing Debian. Or was. I haven't installed an Ubuntu in the last two years, I'd guess. 22:57:39 they still have a nonfree repo? 22:57:41 zzo38: where can I get bashgopher? 22:59:34 fizzie, for debian, should I go for testing? 23:00:32 eh I guess so 23:00:45 I ran testing on my desktop, I think. I don't really know how recommended it is, but it's certainly not very unstable. 23:00:51 Even unstable is not all that unstable. 23:01:00 heh 23:01:19 Vorpal: you might prefer unstable 23:01:23 fizzie, unstable is the one that behaves like rolling updates (like arch), right? 23:01:24 I found testing usually behind what I wanted 23:01:29 hm 23:01:37 there is "experimental" which is the actually breaks-your-system debian 23:01:44 so unstable isn't necessarily unstable 23:02:02 elliott, mostly I want something that takes zero effort to maintain and update once the initial setup is done. 23:02:17 Things do propagate "automatically" into testing. Though sometimes it lags a lot when there are bugs that don't seem to get fixed and dependencies pile up. 23:02:20 okay well that is called not linux 23:02:23 I don't want to have to do complicated manual stuff just to update glibc because stuff changed or whatever (glares at arch) 23:02:24 try os x or maybe windows 23:02:29 :P 23:02:54 elliott, what about android. If you go with stock firmware it behaves like that 23:03:01 Might go with Debian if I were to install something today. I went with Ubuntu because I was all "I'll be all modern desktop Linux for once", and now I'm running XMonad in Gnome 3. 23:03:04 wouldn't work on a desktop though 23:03:15 fizzie, xmonad in gnome? 23:03:15 It feels a bit silly in an Ubuntu. 23:03:17 really? 23:03:21 Yes. 23:03:25 how does that work 23:03:32 Generally speaking just fine. 23:03:36 fizzie: it's "xmonad" :( 23:03:47 *FIzzie 23:04:17 I suppose so, it's just that all the modules are named XMonad. 23:04:19 GreyKnight: http://zzo38computer.org/prog/bashgopher/bashgopher There may be some wrong thing for MinGW so you might need to fix it; possibly also it won't handle wildcards properly. If it is fixed it does work on Linux I have tested it; but, I don't have that copy on here 23:04:40 `addquote elliott, mostly I want something that takes zero effort to maintain and update once the initial setup is done. okay well that is called not linux 23:04:48 866) elliott, mostly I want something that takes zero effort to maintain and update once the initial setup is done. okay well that is called not linux 23:04:53 GreyKnight, :P 23:05:01 zzo38: yay thanks 23:05:07 thing is, I have better stuff to do than mess with updates 23:05:30 Vorpal: i have a suggestion 23:05:31 Vorpal: Anyway, the Gnome panel is the only visible gnomeness in this. All the rest is just stuff like nm-applet (bleh) and SSH/etc. key management, and stuff like that. Things that could be configured manually, but would need a bit of fiddling. 23:05:36 Then put DOS to avoid messing with updates since it doesn't need all complicated updates. It is also faster than Linux. 23:05:37 elliott, xubuntu/ubuntu LTS is zero effort for about 2 years. But then it hits you badly 23:05:40 Vorpal: don't use raid/lvm2 23:05:43 if you want a simple painless experience 23:05:49 elliott, eh, that is usually not the issue 23:05:50 i agree w/ zzo38 install dos 23:05:52 that is easy 23:06:31 You can download the DVD file and it will boot on a DVD and then it works. 23:06:32 elliott, the issue is that I'm dual booting and often use one OS for a long time then switch back for a couple of months and so on 23:06:41 elliott, which means something like arch is just a pain 23:06:50 A graphical Ubuntu person could tell me what you're supposed to be using to install a piece of software, though? I tried to use Ubuntu Software Center, but it just didn't. 23:07:28 "Suggest 260 removals" well that doesn't sound terribly good. 23:07:34 elliott, I don't mind arch if I would be using the system daily, then I could devote a couple of minutes each week to handle messy updates 23:07:45 elliott, but all at once after 2-3 months? No thanks 23:08:00 fizzie: Actually I know apt-get works too 23:08:59 fizzie, heh ouch 23:09:07 fizzie, I really like aptitude myself 23:10:17 aptitude has a nice failure mode where every upgrade results in the suggestion to remove every other package on the system in order to install the upgrades 23:10:33 aptitude is what I use, and I've gotten reasonably comfortable with its quirks. 23:10:39 I just wonder what you're "supposed" to use. 23:10:43 * elliott finds apt-get nicer. 23:10:48 it used to suck but now it doesn't 23:11:03 Because I tried to use Ubuntu Software Center to install Skype, and only thing it could find for me were $4 paid articles in Linux magazines talking about Skype. 23:11:07 elliott, oh? It had problems tracking the "installed as deps" flag thingy for me 23:11:08 zzo38: "clsb"? 23:11:46 GreyKnight: It is for MinGW. For UNIX you need to put "clear" in there. There might be other things necessary to fix too. 23:12:03 You might also need to make nc -q -1 since some computers require that too 23:12:33 elliott, you don't like ncurses? 23:12:52 Oh, I just mean the command-line interface. 23:12:57 ah 23:12:57 Who would use the silly ncurses thing? 23:13:16 elliott, aren't the command line interfaces pretty much identical give or take the odd formatting difference? 23:13:24 all the same commands and so on 23:13:34 except apt-get source, don't think that is in aptitude, is it? 23:13:36 they resolve deps differently etc. 23:13:40 oh okay 23:13:55 "apt-get source" isn't in aptitude; "aptitude search" or "aptitude show" isn't in apt-get that I know of. 23:14:11 fizzie, apt-cache? 23:14:18 Porbably you could be using that instead. 23:14:39 It's a bit more focused on actual package thinging than browsing. 23:14:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:14:44 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 23:14:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:15:17 GreyKnight: bashgopher is not really sophisticated so many things don't work; you can only have one open at a time, the history won't work, so on; but it can be used and does work for what I have tried, and it is not so good for download either. I also wrote Visgopher which is more sophisticated but it is for Windows. I may later write one UNIX program better than bashgopher, though. 23:15:19 elliott, anyway I kind of like the ncurses interface in aptitude 23:15:23 In any case I don't think apt-get or aptitude either is the thing I'm "supposed" to use. 23:15:25 it is a bit wonky yes 23:15:35 but eh, it is fully usablke 23:15:37 usable* 23:15:51 fizzie, I suspect the software store thingy 23:16:00 fizzie: Are you sure? I think Ubuntu is designed to make it work regardless which you used. 23:16:00 But I couldn't even install Skype with it. 23:16:01 zzo38: I get a blank screen with "0/0" at the bottom when connecting to you 23:16:09 I could get in through telnet though 23:16:13 GreyKnight: It is possible you need nc -q -1 23:16:16 And I would think Skype is something you are supposed to be able to install. 23:16:16 I guess I'm going to run into grub 2 nowdays? 23:16:20 Some computers require nc -q -1 23:16:23 I changed all the nc's to that 23:16:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:16:29 but still no worky :-( 23:17:04 fizzie, hm, couldn't install why? 23:17:06 I may use it as a base to try and get a lua gopher client working though so thanks anyway :-) 23:17:10 I don't remember what else is wrong, but maybe you can find them. 23:17:26 Vorpal: Because "only thing it could find for me were $4 paid articles in Linux magazines talking about Skype." 23:17:28 fizzie, how annoying is switching up from testing to unstable, or the other way around? 23:17:30 Also, the user interface is not properly documented. 23:17:40 just in case I go with testing but end up wanting unstable? 23:17:40 documentation is for weenies ;-o 23:17:49 If you have Wine you could try Visgopher if you want to and see if it work. 23:17:51 fizzie, ouch 23:18:14 fizzie, I managed to get skype on Ubuntu I think. Don't recall any issues... :-/ 23:18:27 GreyKnight: Did you install it with Ubuntu Software Center? 23:18:38 I mean, I did just "aptitude install skype" and it worked perfectly. 23:18:39 it was a while back, sorry 23:18:58 Vorpal: Going from testing to unstable sounds reasonably likely to work well, since it'd just be updating some packages. 23:19:05 ah 23:19:07 I should hire a goldfish to remember things for me 23:19:19 fizzie, and downgrading can run into the usual problems I guess 23:19:48 elliott, if only NixOS was less experimental and had wider software support :/ 23:20:00 befungeOS for he win 23:20:03 the 23:20:04 not sure I would call nixos low-maintanence 23:20:07 Vorpal: It certainly sounds a bit more iffy that way. I'm not sure if I've tried either switch. Though I did run a testing once that had quite a lot of stuff pulled in from unstable; you can just add sources for both and do pinning and so on. 23:20:07 I can't type today 23:20:12 If you do write it in Lua you can make it public too if you like it I want to see that too make available. 23:20:20 elliott, true, but I attribute part of that to the experimental status 23:20:23 I shall! 23:21:19 fizzie, hm what about the backports repo thingy? 23:22:05 http://askubuntu.com/questions/211868/why-wont-skype-install -- seems I'm not the only person who hit that. 23:22:36 "apt-get install lib32stdc++ and dpkg -i some random Skype .deb from somewhere" doesn't sound like the best workaround. 23:22:47 -!- carado has joined. 23:22:49 (And I did have the "Canonical partners" stuff enabled.) 23:23:43 @karma libstd 23:23:43 libstd has a karma of 1 23:23:46 @karma libstdc 23:23:47 fizzie: that issue just sounds like someone without the partners repo 23:23:47 libstdc has a karma of 17 23:23:50 @karma lib32stdc 23:23:51 lib32stdc has a karma of 1 23:24:29 @karma C 23:24:30 C has a karma of 1 23:24:41 I guess it doesn't run off foo++ 23:24:47 @karma foo 23:24:47 foo has a karma of 1 23:24:52 @help karma 23:24:53 karma . Return a person's karma value 23:24:55 @karma c/c 23:24:55 c/c has a karma of 347 23:25:03 foo-- 23:25:04 @karma foo 23:25:05 foo has a karma of 0 23:25:08 hm! 23:25:13 @karma CPressey 23:25:14 CPressey has a karma of 0 23:25:17 ouuuuuh 23:25:23 C-- is a popular intermediate language in #haskell 23:25:24 C++ has been mentioned about a million times surely 23:25:28 ohhhh 23:25:35 (But that's not the reason.) 23:25:49 @karma c/c 23:25:50 c/c has a karma of 347 23:26:14 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 23:26:15 anyone remember what you need to pass to tar to make it properly handle special files, like block devices, pipes, unix sockets and so on? 23:26:17 Vorpal: I don't really know about the backports repo. Do they have those for things other than stable nowadays? 23:26:20 @karma i 23:26:20 i has a karma of 20 23:26:23 can't find it in --help 23:26:26 That's not too many increments. 23:26:52 @@ @show @karma-all 23:26:53 " \"nobody\" 2000\n \"C/C\" 347\n \"(\" 138\n \"+\" 109\n \"G\" 100\n \"shachaf\" 48\n \"dmwit\" 23:26:53 38\n \"libc\" 36\n \"##c\" 35\n \"\\\"C\" 31\n \"monochrom\" 31\n \"Notepad\" 31\n \"clang\" 30\n \" 23:26:53 elliott\" 29\n \"#c\" 24\n \"Cale\" 24\n \"lambdabot\" 24\n \"i\" 20\n \"Jafet\" 20\n \"bonnie\" 23:26:53 19\n \"ObjC\" 18\n \"rwbarton\" 18\n \"sixthgear\" 18\n \"DevC\" 17\n \"edwardk\" 17\n \"ion\" 17\n \"libstdc\ 23:26:53 " 17\n \"byorgey\" 16\n \"vc\" 16\n \"cmccann\" 15\n \"elpolilla\" 15\n \"mauke\" 15\n \"shachef\" 15\ 23:26:55 [289 @more lines] 23:27:01 ...That didn't help. 23:27:09 karma i' 23:27:13 @@ @read @run reverse @show @karma-all 23:27:15 @karma i' 23:27:15 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 23:27:16 i' has a karma of 0 23:27:21 @@ @run reverse @show @karma-all 23:27:23 "\n3282- \"<\" \n6762- \"sekahsklim\" \n377- ... 23:27:30 @@ @run unlines . reverse . lines @show @karma-all 23:27:32 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Base.String' 23:27:33 with actual typ... 23:27:33 23:25:13 @karma CPressey 23:27:40 @karma catseye 23:27:40 catseye has a karma of 0 23:27:40 @@ @run (unlines . reverse . lines) @show @karma-all 23:27:41 @karma ZOMGMODULES 23:27:43 " \"<\" -2823\n \"milkshakes\" -2676\n \"-\" ... 23:27:43 ZOMGMODULES has a karma of 0 23:27:45 what 23:27:49 have i really not ++'d cpressey at some point 23:28:01 well then 23:28:02 cpressey++ 23:28:04 catseye++ 23:28:06 ZOMGMODULES++ 23:30:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:30:48 everyone here hates milkshakes? 23:31:21 GreyKnight, no? I'm indifferent to them 23:31:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:31:31 @karma milkshakes 23:31:32 milkshakes has a karma of -2676 23:31:35 :-/ 23:31:35 -!- augur has joined. 23:32:12 milkshakes++ 23:32:15 I like them :> 23:32:16 well, night 23:35:48 ZOMGMODULES++ 23:36:42 @karma ZOMGMODULES 23:36:42 ZOMGMODULES has a karma of 2 23:36:52 massive karma 23:40:24 in the next life he'll probably be a giraffe or something 23:40:43 fungot++ 23:40:44 GreyKnight: " it is agile." unlambda: your functional programming language with first class subset/ quotient types? couldn't you explicitly dispatch on that? i'm using in conjure is fnord/ orca. the intention is to make a web site 23:40:49 he will be django? what a fate :( 23:40:56 (fungot deserved that one from earlier) 23:40:57 GreyKnight: as for the 0.0 in operator position, i'm still highly motivated ( perhaps too little) more than the solution that worked for me 23:41:49 0.0 in operator position, you say 23:43:01 ^style 23:43:01 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:43:16 ^style ff7 23:43:16 Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII) 23:43:26 fungot: is a quotient type like a quotient set? 23:43:27 Bike: what is it...... 23:44:09 It's a confused style. 23:44:22 fungot: Just guess if you don't know. 23:44:22 fizzie: umm.... thump... pound.... mi... ti... la... do this!? 23:44:43 fungot: ...not quite. 23:44:43 fizzie: and that sephiroth's here, cloud? 23:44:57 i feel like there's a joke about ellipses to be made here, fungot. 23:44:57 Bike: really! ...sniff... you!? are the preparations going? she died. 23:45:09 either that or the translatioin's quality. 23:45:31 I seem to recall quite a lot of ellipses in the game. 23:45:36 fungot... 23:45:36 GreyKnight: the letter... what are we...? you just look a little longer! here! 23:45:45 fungot: Have you actually played FF7? 23:45:45 fizzie: a battlefield, we wouldn't have come to the end! 23:45:55 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 23:46:05 where do you even get a full script of ff7 23:46:06 Wait,what is fungot style? 23:46:06 MDude: sorry to keep you company... 23:46:13 No, that's fine. 23:46:18 ^style fungot 23:46:18 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 23:46:23 Oh my. 23:46:27 As suspected. 23:46:43 It's a somewhat small dataset. 23:46:44 fungot, would you call Cloud "whiny"? 23:46:45 Bike: i just wrote :p ( what was i thinking there.... :d sorry, i have no information. he seemed, in fine, i can verify it 23:47:00 So it's a bit of a self-reinforcing style, I would guess. 23:47:23 It hasn't been re-estimated ever. 23:47:41 It would be more interesting if I kept it more up to date. 23:47:52 fungot: How old is this style already? 23:47:52 fizzie: am i that much bad. take up, boy; open't. so, now go with, do miscarrie, thou had'st bin resolute pompey 23:48:31 Quite often you can guesstimate the source style. 23:49:03 Add Shakespeare style. 23:49:10 ^style ss 23:49:11 Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) 23:49:12 done. 23:49:14 thx for the suggestion 23:49:14 OK 23:49:29 Also add style of the recordings of the Dungeons&Dragons game. 23:49:45 It's equivalent (FSVO; asymptotically speaking; discounting non-babble; with many assumptions) to a straightforward weighted interpolation of the styles. 23:50:22 Also add the Christmas style. 23:50:27 What are thee recordings? 23:50:30 These. 23:50:40 Is style pa quotations from all across Pennsylvania? 23:51:06 fizzie: One is, the one I wrote in my computer. But you need convert from TeX into unformatted if you want to use this one. 23:51:15 MDude: Not quite. 23:51:21 ^style pa 23:51:21 Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) 23:51:31 fungot: How's it going? 23:51:31 MDude: Yes. 23:51:32 fizzie: i thought i was goldilocks, seeing as you left me alone back there with three fucking bears. you want my advice? in the night. i've still got that paladin on dark iron, i guess natalie portman " sleepwalks" through her role in attack of the stupid name." 23:52:21 Personally I think this one manages to be quite amusing at times, but it's never been very popular. 23:52:30 fungot: Put some effort into it. 23:52:30 fizzie: look out, cacodemons: there's a new mouse in town. don bluth joins forces with id software to spawn the ultimate tail 3: fievel goes to hell. 23:52:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:00 The settings when this was built make it a bit overprone to quote verbatim. 23:53:15 Then change it 23:53:23 yeah, i was gonna say, that goldilocks bit sounded like a quote. 23:53:31 fungot: Omstart, more inspiration. 23:53:31 fizzie: right, right. i should probably be at the store. 23:53:41 fungot: Sigh. 23:53:44 fizzie: the problem is its jokes are mainly quotes 23:53:53 fungot: Sigh. 23:53:53 shachaf: son, i can't actually see the road anymore. 23:54:11 It does mix things up. Sometimes. It's just being uncooperative. 23:54:19 That was a direct quote too. 23:54:21 Fungot: Reprogram yourself to use less direct quotes. 23:54:38 fungot: And start being case-insensitive. 23:54:38 fizzie: zero, i guess i don't give two shits bout it work at eidos. i had caught them all. 23:54:41 Do you not respond when your name is capitalized? 23:54:54 MDude: "Fungot" is not fungot's name. 23:54:55 shachaf: go fuck yourself. final fantasy viii, coming soon to a playstation near us! i just got them at the aucti- chocolate and waffle cones hung in the air, announce that i am forced to express the feelings that i have finally discovered the correct games in the correct sequence to maintain his interest in the genre forever. 23:55:10 It's kind of picky like that. 23:55:17 ^style fisher 23:55:17 Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) 23:55:34 does it respond to "afungota", say? 23:55:34 Bike: right and i 23:55:36 -!- augur has joined. 23:56:01 fungot: It's just basically a strstr, right? 23:56:02 fizzie: yeah laughter yeah or whichever way the wind is just kind of like 23:56:24 They've annotated some sounds. 23:56:38 Probably nobody said "laughter" out loud there. 23:57:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:01 And here I was wondering what kind of quotes you'd get from Fisher Price. Apparently none. 23:58:04 does fungot respond to itself? 23:58:05 Bike: i got so much more advanced but for a professional baseball player like i was the same kind of ah 23:58:24 no 23:58:27 Bike: Why would it do that? 23:58:29 IRC doesn't echo lines back to you 23:58:45 Unless you send it to yourself. 23:58:59 shachaf: i've seen bots that do. 23:59:19 though it seems that fungot's befunge-98 standard is better than that. 23:59:20 Bike: ( ( laughter noise noise 23:59:30 fungot 23:59:30 shachaf: um i i've talked to 23:59:31 Laugh it up, fungot. Laugh. It. Up. 23:59:32 Bike: i just look for the area that's a very good thing to tell your kids not to use 23:59:37 MDude: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fisher_Price ? 23:59:49 -!- sivoais has joined. 2012-12-14: 00:00:43 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:02:54 Less-known fact: fungot is actually a modified Fisher-Price My First IRC Bot. 00:02:54 fizzie: he'll get rich they're entitled to make it legal they had some controversy over this before but i can't really recall anything that i've done 00:03:18 sounds like lyrics to something 00:03:22 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:03:42 What a thorough and descriptive article. 00:03:48 it'd be hard to get that to scan. 00:04:47 Hmm, speaking of which, maybe a style based on a database of song lyrics? 00:05:12 scansion is just an oppressive construct imposed by society 00:05:37 i wouldn't brave most lyrics sites even for fungot. 00:05:38 Bike: or wanted to know uh do you wanna start or do you you swing your elbows more or do you have 00:06:32 -!- heroux has joined. 00:06:37 It's a fact that every site that lists lyrics has the exact same GET IT FOR YOUR CELL PHONE NOW link. 00:07:01 I think I may have seen a fairly tasteful lyrics site once or twice. 00:07:06 I recall that it was purple. 00:10:03 -!- ssue has joined. 00:15:21 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:20:39 Lyrics databases are kind of sucky, yes; and not very download-friendly. Very few fungot styles have been made by crawling. 00:20:40 fizzie: are you familiar 00:20:44 MDude: Is that a science fact? 00:20:51 fizzie: Whaddabout that wiki one 00:21:04 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 00:21:12 what about the webcomic ones 00:21:33 Wiki is from the XML or SQL dump, I forget which one. 00:21:54 PA and Homestuck are by crawling, though. 00:21:59 ^style 00:21:59 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher* fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 00:22:34 And iwcs and qwantz, I guess, okay. 00:22:46 YouTube sort-of. 00:23:15 are WP doing dumps again? I think it was broke last time I looked 00:23:30 (also Wikipedia isn't Wiki) 00:23:40 Books are... ahem, well, some books may be of dubious legality. But I didn't read them, I just fed them to the bot! 00:24:23 It's the only wiki on fungot's list. (Except technically PA is by crawling a Wikia or some other such thing.) 00:24:23 fizzie: you know you can't uh you know you 00:24:25 youtube having an api to download comments would be kind of funny. 00:25:06 And there's some material from Project Gutenberg. 00:25:28 (darwin speeches ss.) 00:25:43 "Wiki" capitalised is c2 :-) 00:25:55 * ais523 agrees with GreyKnight 00:26:18 Bah schmah, it was a perfectly acceptable shorthand for a person typing on a phone. 00:26:59 okay I'll let you off since your phone (presumably) auto-capitalises the first letter 00:27:02 just this once! 00:27:28 It was capitalized because sentences start with capital letters. 00:27:42 Add the Gutenberg style on fungot 00:27:42 zzo38: mother and stepfather raised her and she's just turned eighty she uses her f- she has a 00:27:55 capital letters at the start of sentences is a weird rule if you think about it 00:28:04 they should be for proper nouns only 00:28:09 zzo38 What's the Gutenberg style? Everything in there? 00:28:22 GreyKnight: It is the rule though, despite that. 00:28:39 fizzie: Yes, I would guess so, everything public domain ASCII in there, counting, only. 00:28:59 does gutenberg have non-public domain things? 00:29:01 throw it out! change ALL the rules! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ 00:30:01 zzo38: I'll see if I get around to that. 00:30:34 Also perhaps the Internet style from google-ngram, I think that was on the TODO list too. 00:31:20 (It's not all of the Internet, it's just billion words from there.) 00:31:58 oh, you know what would be fun, if a bit annoying to do? download the geocities archive and scrape text from that. 00:32:04 00:21:32 Wiki is from the XML or SQL dump, I forget which one. 00:32:07 No I mean the lyrics wiki thing. 00:32:16 IIRC most of the time it is just "we can't show this because copyrights" though, but maybe they have dumps?? 00:32:22 I think it's a wikia thing or whatever. 00:33:55 They didn't have dumps when I last checked. Or I couldn't find any. 00:34:21 I was looking for a song lyric language model for other reasons. 00:34:40 Then call it google-ngram style 00:34:44 I wonder if anyone wrote a tracker (music tool) in haskell 00:34:48 If that is what it is. 00:35:12 google-ngram style? I hear that song is pretty popular these days. 00:35:16 FreeFull: I tried starting to write CsoundMML in Haskell, but now I am writing CsoundMML in C. There are other music stuff in Haskell 00:35:51 shachaf: Is it even a song? 00:36:02 zzo38: I think it's Korean. 00:36:25 zzo38: But that wouldn't be a tracker at all 00:36:43 FreeFull: Correct, they aren't, but I don't know of a tracker music in Haskell though. 00:37:42 But maybe someone make CsoundTracker too some day; I have some ideas how it could work directly with Csound score files, using all of its feature (tempo change, repeats, comments, function tables, etc), but I do not intend to write it at this time. 00:37:48 First I will write CsoundMML 00:38:16 That reminds me 00:38:22 You know bytebeat? 00:38:27 No. 00:38:49 http://canonical.org/~kragen/bytebeat/ 00:39:21 "new genre of music" 00:39:32 oh, these things. they're fun. took a while to figure out how to do it with pulse though. 00:39:39 O yes I think I have seen thing like that before. 00:40:56 I'm thinking this would be trivial to implement in Haskell 00:41:12 T R I V I A L 00:41:14 Also I pondered a tracker that would allow you to create synths by entering a formula 00:41:29 ＴＲＩＶＩＡＬ 00:41:46 I made an rpn parser that does that but didn't write the rest of the tracker 00:41:47 Come on, kmc. 00:41:49 Csound can kind of do that, create synths by entering a formula. 00:41:53 Don't you have a fullwidth keyboard layout? 00:42:47 why does kmc hate 'trivial' again 00:43:14 L A I V I R T 00:43:24 haskell people use it to mean "our shit is so theoretically awesome that it doesn't matter if it actually works" 00:43:29 you know all that engineering is "trivial" 00:43:36 also it's just generally a douchebag way to say "easy" 00:43:39 FreeFull: But if you want to modify other tracker programs for .S3M format or whatever, to allow formula to be entered instead of load a file, you can try to do that. 00:43:44 Well writing a bytebeat thing is trivial in any language 00:43:50 `quote trivial 00:43:52 144) It's like mathematicians, where the next step up from "trivial" is "open research question". "Nope... No...This problem can't be done AT ALL. This one--maybe, but only with two yaks and a sherpa. ..." \ 173) So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] It's a trivial C program :P 00:43:58 yeah 00:44:00 zzo38: That sounds too hackish 00:44:03 144 yo ,o/ 00:44:06 I'd prefer a new file format 00:44:23 this bytebeat stuff is cool 00:44:27 In mathematics, often it can't be proven that something can't be done either 00:44:38 FreeFull: Is Csound format OK? 00:44:52 Data.Bits pretty much would do most of the stuff for you 00:45:08 zzo38: Does CSound do bitwise operators? 00:45:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:45:21 FreeFull: Yes, actually it does. 00:45:22 it reminds me of crystal castles 00:45:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:45:58 Nevertheless you have to deal with difference of k-rate and a-rate and so on, but many operators work on a-rate, and you can use UDO to change the k-rate to the same as the a-rate if you need to. 00:46:19 It'd be neat to make a parser built into a little hardware thing also takes various audio inputs as extra variables. 00:46:19 So I could do something like t & (t >> 3) and have it output something? 00:46:32 Though I guess I wouldn't really use such a thing much. 00:46:46 MDude: Someone made a parser that consists of a tiny chip, a battery and an audio jack 00:46:48 Well writing a bytebeat thing is trivial in any language <-- sez you, arithmetic overflow isn't even defined to do that in C, is it? 00:46:49 That's it 00:46:52 -!- augur has joined. 00:46:59 Bike: I said most 00:47:10 FreeFull: It is not quite that simple, and the syntax is not the same as C, but basically I think it would work. 00:47:34 And if you use 16/32 bit ints in C, you can just cut off the top bits with &255 every time 00:47:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:48:04 Bike: I'm not implementing a bytebeat interpreter in brainfuck 00:48:08 In order to make it allow to do by a single command, and using the C format, might be possible to make a plugin with such feature. 00:48:13 Hell, I'm not implementing anything in brainfuck. Screw that 00:48:31 That's kind of the idea, though. 00:48:44 would be nice to implement some of these using discrete logic chips 00:48:48 BF is pretty easy to write in compared to many esolangs 00:48:53 Csound plugins can be written in a few different programming languages: C, C++, Lua, Python, and Csound. 00:49:31 ais523: I'm not going to write in those either 00:50:10 hmm 00:50:19 this seems like a decided lack of ambition for this channel 00:50:23 I wrote a BF interp in Unlambda once 00:50:26 * FreeFull checks out stuff people have done with bytebeat while he wasn't looking at it 00:50:27 err, not BF 00:50:28 P'' 00:50:58 was aiming low 00:51:12 FreeFull: I have a Csound plugin license under LGPL, so if you have a C code compatible with that, I will make it into an additional command in this Csound plugin. 00:53:01 Probably wouldn't be compatible 00:54:47 What programming language did you write a rpn parser? 00:55:41 C 00:56:08 It might work. 00:56:14 But it's basically one big switch statement with some strcmp mixed in 00:56:26 And an array for a stack 00:56:33 If I see what you have then I might be able to work it. 00:56:45 I don't think it would be worth it 00:58:34 * kmc watches some demoscene videos 00:59:06 i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function" 00:59:27 heh 01:00:00 it's funny because it's true 01:00:28 yep 01:00:40 -!- augur has joined. 01:01:30 `addquote i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function" 01:01:33 867) i was going to say that the complexity of a demo grows exponentially with size, but it's not so much "exponential" as "faster than any computable function" 01:01:38 'faster than any computable' function is one of those things that still completely blows my mind 01:01:58 Phantom_Hoover: busy beaver grows like that, doesn't it? 01:02:23 that's the joke 01:03:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:23 Ackermann complexity whee 01:04:46 (that one *is* computable actually) 01:05:48 Hmm, wait a minute. I was going to say something about a function using !x, but apparently various calculator thigns aren't parsing ! like I thought they would. 01:05:50 the ones that are weird for me are the ones that grow slower than any computable (monotonically increasing) function 01:06:16 MDude: do you mean x! ? 01:06:22 Probably. 01:06:43 factorial is slow compared to ackermann, which is slow compared to bb/goodstein/whatever. 01:06:46 Bike, hmm, like... 1-1/f(x) where f is supercomputable? 01:07:10 yeah, that works 01:07:54 Bike: wow, I hadn't realised such a function could exist until now 01:08:04 fuck you 01:08:05 Phantom_Hoover: the one I know is the function creeping up on kolmogorov complexity from underneath (f(x) = min{C(a) such that a >= x}) 01:08:08 Yeah, you what about factorialing a number a number of times equal to its factorial? 01:08:14 I'm going full constructivist and forgetting anything uncomputable even exists 01:08:16 MDude: nope 01:08:22 elliott: was my reaction as well 01:08:25 MDude: that's obviously computable 01:08:42 it's primitive recursive, in fact 01:08:48 j = n; for (i = 0; i < fact(n); i++) j = fact(j); 01:08:50 weak! 01:08:54 do non-primitive-recursive total functions exist? 01:08:56 I guess they do 01:08:58 yes 01:09:00 tons of them 01:09:04 I mean, that can't be emulated by primitive recursive 01:09:08 oh, ackermann? 01:09:16 that is the point of ackermann, isn't it...? 01:09:17 ais523: whether a function is primitive recursive is decidable 01:09:20 yes 01:09:20 whether a function is total is not 01:09:25 not very difficult :P 01:09:32 I was htinking mroe of comparing it to demo complexity, but I suppose that was already considered. 01:09:32 oh, I like that proof 01:09:52 ais523: if you could write all total functions primitive recursively, you wouldn't have any need for Turing-complete languages 01:10:01 because you'd have a language you can check, and that represents all programs that matter 01:10:05 and we'd live in a bugless fairy utopia! 01:10:23 yep, Ackermann is total but not primitive recursive 01:10:33 elliott: right 01:10:44 Anarchy is going to be total except where marked otherwise 01:10:54 or more specifically, the compiler will try to prove totality and give a warning if it can't 01:11:08 warning or error? :o) 01:11:12 basically, because most algos you'd actually want to write in it are easy to prove total 01:11:21 GreyKnight: warning, that would be a stupid way to make a language sub-TC 01:12:07 I've been writing C++ all week so I was starting to believe pointlessly exasperating errors were a normal language feature, my bad 01:12:51 ais523: so it's going to be partial 01:12:55 and you have a compiler that gives warnings 01:13:03 your stated property has zip to do with the language 01:13:17 elliott: yes 01:13:28 well, unless you use -Werror 01:13:48 GreyKnight: They are to C++, if you use templates 01:15:41 yeah C++ error messages are usually pretty awful 01:15:44 depends a lot on compiler though 01:15:51 try clang++ and recent GCC 01:16:19 Hah. In my dreams 01:16:33 dammit 01:16:39 i've started writing those bytebeat things again 01:16:45 (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%8) 01:17:00 it's a nigh-unmaintainable mess that only compiles in Borland 4, which is from like 1990+something 01:17:09 ouch. 01:17:13 Make a bytebeat thing, fungot. 01:17:14 MDude: a moot court t._v. laughter unless you had cable or something about religious or not but i i just 01:17:20 randomly generating them would be cool 01:17:28 and filtering out the ones that generate really boring stuff like silence or just one tone or whatever 01:17:31 ._v., is that an arrowhead striking from above 01:17:34 ouch 01:17:37 ( http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/ ) 01:17:41 C++ sucked extra hard back in 1990+something 01:17:50 hah replacing that first t with sin(t) makes it significantly more dissonant 01:18:32 i'm surprised that bytebeat hasn't shown up in ioccc more 01:18:42 I tried just shoving randomly generated characters into IBNIZ, but it dind't tend to do much interesting. 01:19:09 ibniz is great 01:19:11 i did much the same 01:19:16 the js/c stuff is more accessible though 01:19:29 ioccc entry: an implementation of RV 425 without using multiplication 01:19:35 There is no byte sequence that is an invalid ibniz program :D 01:19:45 Most bytes get ignored though 01:20:08 There's stuff that tries to pull from an empty stack, though. 01:20:20 Or push on too much and do nothing with it. 01:21:02 elliott: Rather than %8 do &7 01:21:25 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:21:58 (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%1) produces more manic but visually pleasing results 01:22:19 `quote 708 01:22:20 708) has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people 01:22:50 `pastequotes ais523 01:22:54 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31198 01:23:19 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:24:01 interesting.. has anybody here prorgrammed with chromes webKitAudioContext? 01:24:20 (t*(t>>7))*!((t>>2)%8) on left channel and (t*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%7) on right 01:24:26 ∃ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ 01:24:26 GreyKnight: oh my gosh that gives you noise goose bumps laughter laughter sigh that's cool noise 01:24:32 -!- GreyKnight has set topic: ∃ fungot | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:24:37 oh yes, commands are a thing 01:24:45 :v 01:25:05 What? 01:25:09 MDude: cool 01:25:29 MDude: that but with (sin(t)*(t>>8))*!((t>>2)%7) on the right is cool too 01:26:08 elliott: btw, we recently discovered that all the game-semantic models of concurrent Algol were broken 01:26:15 not in the sense of being /wrong/ 01:26:21 just in the sense of not modelling anything useful 01:26:27 they need a psychic scheduler to work correctly 01:27:07 the only implementation I could think of was to, every time multiple threads were trying to perform actions simultaneously, fork off a new scheduler for each possible method of rearranging the order in which the threads act 01:27:18 with each scheduler having its own copies of the threads 01:27:31 ais523: heh 01:27:42 needless to say, this is not very practical 01:27:45 200*sin(t*"herp derp durrrr".charCodeAt((t/1000)%16)) 01:27:56 we're trying to do a hard-realtime total concurrent version of Algol 01:28:04 havascript the new punkrock: http://bit.ly/WGzVHo 01:28:04 this involves proving the absence of deadlocks, which is awkward 01:29:47 I have a new plan for the finite case (i.e. no flow control at all) 01:29:53 but it doesn't generalise 01:30:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:30:42 (t>>4)*(sin(t)%32) yikes 01:31:05 err, is that an integer %? 01:31:08 if so, always 0 01:31:30 except when it's 1 or -1, which requires luck with floating point rounding 01:31:36 or, well, 1 or -1 times t>>4 01:31:38 it's javascript 01:31:40 who the hell knows 01:31:47 http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/ to see what it actually results in 01:32:05 `quote 726 01:32:05 if it's a floating %, it's a no-op 01:32:10 726) bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory 01:32:12 unless it has weird behviour on negative numbers 01:32:32 IIRC it behaved differently 01:32:40 I think it might be doing something weird to the floating point rep 01:33:34 ais523: what was the context of 694? 01:33:41 `quote 694 01:33:48 694) northern ireland is quite a way to drag someone from scotland <-- not really. I just checked in google earth Vorpal: but dragging people across water's a bit tricky 01:33:53 GreyKnight: I can't remember 01:33:57 but it probably wasn't interesting, given the quote 01:34:01 THis doens't sound that nice, but made some neat shapes: (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t)*10) 01:34:13 haha, try (t>>3)*cos(t) in 44.1 khz 01:34:27 or 8k for that matter 01:35:03 MDude: that's cool 01:35:16 JS has a floating % 01:35:22 all numbers in JS are floats 01:35:24 And I don't appreciate "who the hell knows", JS is a beautiful language 01:35:25 but yes 01:35:26 it is cool 01:35:37 kmc: Then again it also has bitwise ops, which operate on integers :P 01:35:42 yeah 01:35:47 does it truncate them first? 01:35:52 Lumpio-: if you think JS is a beautiful language then I have no idea what to say to you 01:35:53 Lumpio-: JS scoping 01:35:55 oh I do actually 01:35:56 yes 01:35:58 Gregor: hey 01:36:05 Gregor: is JS a beautiful language 01:36:10 ais523: What's wrong with it? 01:36:18 apparently the designers of JS only implemented those scoping rules because they were fast to implement and they were in a hurry to get it out 01:36:26 global by default is bad 01:36:31 >2012 01:36:32 and what's wrong with it is that I had to add a bunch of extra lambdas to my code for no obvious reason 01:36:34 >doesn't even "use strict" 01:36:43 >a person 01:36:45 >talks like this 01:36:47 but if you use 'var' consistently then you do have lexical scoping which is more than a lot of languages manage 01:36:49 or, more precisely, that there's no such thing as block-local variables 01:36:54 >annoys everyone around them by their really fucking stupid method of communication 01:37:01 You're lucky it didn't look >like this 01:37:04 >turns every statement into condescending nonsense 01:37:04 -also I'll start talking like this if you keep prefixing lines with greater-than signs- 01:37:12 -kmc: you don't, you have function scoping- 01:37:21 you have lexical scoping of functions 01:37:26 kmc: "use strict" turns what would make a "global by default" into an error 01:37:26 -yeah but they don't nest- 01:37:29 functions do 01:37:31 -!- carado has joined. 01:37:44 -yes but that means you need to add a bunch of junk lambdas to your code for no good reason- 01:37:45 If you want {} scoping, use let 01:37:51 -and if you don't you just get hard-to-debug errors- 01:37:52 "JS is such a cool language that you have to arbitrarily forbid large swathes of its semantics for it to not have horrific problems" 01:37:57 truly amazing 01:38:00 ais523: yeah 01:38:03 it's not great 01:38:05 are we doing language wars again 01:38:08 I lost hours to that 01:38:10 but it's better than a lot of languages manage 01:38:10 all day every day 01:38:15 depressingly enough 01:38:18 most languages do not screw up lexical scoping 01:38:19 ais523: So you're essentially saying you don't understand lambdas 01:38:24 lol 01:38:25 Hope you never find a Lisp derivative 01:38:26 ugh 01:38:27 wow 01:38:28 Lumpio-: I do understand lambdas 01:38:32 lol. 01:38:32 please go away 01:38:36 I work with them 01:38:38 Lumpio-: "for" and "if" and such don't create scopes in JS 01:38:39 I'm not sure /you/ do, though 01:38:41 you are a condescending idiot who assumes the worst in people apparently 01:38:45 kmc: They do if you stick to "let" 01:38:49 with a major dunning-kruger complex 01:38:54 i don't consider this a big deal but yeah basically what elliott said 01:39:14 is "let" widely supported? 01:39:27 i think the major browsers support it 01:39:30 (this might exclude IE) 01:39:52 ais523: BTW is your Algol thing above the same project as: 01:39:55 `quote 244 01:39:57 244) gah, who'd have thought removing concurrency from algol could be so difficult 01:40:12 ais523 has been compiling idealised concurrent algol to hardware since the beginning of time 01:40:13 i wouldn't call JS beautiful, but it is better than one would expect from the historical story of how it came about 01:40:20 GreyKnight: yes 01:40:22 and is currently anticipated to never finish performing this task 01:40:31 elliott: nah, we can manage that already 01:40:34 we're trying to optimize it now 01:40:54 kmc: I'd expect better of a language whose origin story is "guy has to make a sort-of-C-like language in N days, tries to make it as much like Scheme" as possible 01:41:03 since generally someone who knows Scheme wouldn't get things like basic scoping wrong 01:41:09 er *Scheme as possible" 01:41:15 elliott: he knew it was wrong at the time 01:41:20 just he was too rushed to do it properly 01:41:25 He tries to scheme as much as possible, got it. 01:41:29 "// TODO: we'll fix this later" 01:41:32 i don't think it's that broken 01:41:49 but whatever 01:41:56 he understood lexical scope well enough to write lexical scope that didn't nest, rather than dynamic scope that did (which is just about as easy) 01:41:58 MDude: turning your example into (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t)*100) gives fun results at the start 01:42:02 it does nest 01:42:03 I found a comment to that^ effect in some code the other week. It'd been there for about 4 or 5 years 01:42:14 it's just that not all of the constructs you have arbitrarily decided look like they should create scopes do 01:42:48 well if you're using C-like braces for grouping, you expect them to scope in a C-like way 01:42:55 tbh restricting scopes to just functions is pretty ridiculous 01:43:08 especially since all these constructs look visually identical but do not create new scopes 01:43:19 Which C 01:43:19 anyway it's an enormous stroke of luck that javascript was designed by someone who at all understood scoping, or basic functional programming 01:43:26 Didn't old C pretty much only do function scoping 01:43:31 "All variables at the top or else" 01:43:32 the problem with curly-brace languages is how they all look the same but actually aren't :-) 01:43:38 more often than not, these languages end up desigend by people with an irrational fear and misunderstanding of very simple things 01:43:41 see: python 01:43:59 GreyKnight: what, you're saying there's more to a programming language than what kind of punctuation it uses?!?!? 01:44:09 `quote except python 01:44:10 No output. 01:44:12 hmm 01:44:13 Shocking I know! 01:44:17 `quote python 01:44:21 158) syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python \ 422) Vorpal: Won't be slower than Python ;-) elliott_, yeah but that is like saying a T-Ford going down a hill won't be slower than a bicycle uphill on a bumpy road :P 01:44:31 kmc: 158 is what I was looking for 01:44:37 heh 01:44:38 MDude: and ((t-10)>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t>>10)*1000) sounds kind of cool 01:44:40 the `quote search should check synonyms obviously 01:45:06 No, I think it shouldn't check synonyms. 01:45:08 i only have one major complaint with Python syntax, but it's a pretty big one 01:45:13 zzo38: joke 01:45:26 kmc: I lost my first Python program because the whitespace got mangled somehow 01:45:32 hmm, if you have t progressing from 0 to infinity, you can get 0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2, 3 by t%4 01:45:41 is there a nice short way of getting 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 1, 0, ... 01:45:48 (t>>3)*cos(t) <-- that was the best one for now.. just need to get it less noissy 01:45:51 0, 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1 is fine too 01:45:58 zzo38: BTW you might like this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.gopher.general/4481 01:46:23 really horrorshow 01:47:00 Since it's obviously the square root that slows things donw, I tried (t>>4)/(t>>5)*t%(Math.sqrt(t%100000)*100) 01:47:13 GreyKnight: Domain name I have is OK 01:47:31 And also messed around with the size of the number after t%. 01:47:45 The broken thing about JavaScript's scoping is that {} doesn't create a new scope? 01:48:00 that is the claim, yes 01:48:06 thanks guys you suck 01:48:23 MDude: haha when that exploded half-way through was a nice surprise 01:48:51 hm, triangle wave with arithmetic, i dunno... 01:48:52 but zzo38.gopher would be a cool alternate name B-) 01:49:11 it's not zzo38, it's his computer 01:49:14 I also dislike the way they make up TLDs like that. 01:49:17 gotta be zzo38computer 01:49:35 And I have services on at least two other protocols, and may add more additionally, later on, too. 01:50:36 Oh, hm, maybe you could do that by fucking with two's complement. 01:50:41 well, ICANN are making up TLDs as well now, so. Except selling them for £bignum 01:50:52 no... no i don't think that would work 01:51:14 I don't like ICANN's making up TLDs either 01:51:29 maybe we should just scrap DNS and start over :-/ 01:51:30 it's all gone a bit silly 01:51:58 wait for ipv6 to be adopted, give everyone and their mother a stable ip, all problems solved forever 01:51:59 shachaf: my laptop left Japan this morning (boston time) and is supposed to arrive at my door tomorrow 01:52:01 But I have DHCP so maybe the address might change 01:52:21 e.g. the company Johnson & Johnson put in to own ".baby". Even if we take as read that this TLD should exist, why should they be the ones to own it? 01:52:21 (t>>6|t|t>>(t>>16))*10+((t>>11)&7) 01:52:38 kmc: That's pretty fast. 01:52:40 yeah 01:52:43 well you might as ask why ICANN should own everything 01:52:48 (Is your door in Boston? Some people have lots of doors.) 01:52:48 and the answer is because they were there first 01:52:53 just like Johnson & Johnson 01:52:54 well 01:52:55 shachaf: timezoneconverter.com has the worst UI 01:52:56 there first with money 01:53:04 i wonder if the top google hit for "time zone converter" will ever be not that :( 01:53:08 kmc: google "time in $timezone" 01:53:13 Bike: related: http://xkcd.com/865/ 01:53:15 and stuff 01:53:22 "3 am utc in pdt" etc. works iirc 01:53:22 useful but i do want to convert times that aren't now 01:53:25 oh cool 01:53:27 elliott: That only works for right now. 01:53:30 Oh. 01:53:39 ok it doesn't actually work 01:53:41 Doesn't work here. 01:53:41 but istr a way to do it 01:53:56 hagb4rd: i like that one 01:54:03 wait wasn't this in one of the videos, it sounds familiar 01:54:13 yup 01:54:21 it left Anchorage, Alaska like an hour ago 01:54:21 kmc: wolframalpha can do it anyway 01:54:34 ok 01:55:28 elliott: What about 0,1,2,3,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,3,2,1,0,1 01:55:32 It is why I wanted to make up the new international network, perhaps called "HyperNet" which is 100% decentralized, and gets rid of stupid stuff like HTML/CSS/JavaScript/HTTP/PDF/StupidStuff/etc/etc/etc/etc too. 01:55:44 shachaf: that works too 01:55:49 zzo38: what would it use instead? 01:55:53 zzo38: but StupidStuff is my favourite technology 01:56:10 abs(((x + 3) % 7 - 3) % 4)? 01:56:15 Hmm, that's too complicated. 01:56:16 ais523: Just plain ASCII text (or, if not English, using their encoding) 01:56:51 zzo38: why not UTF-8? 01:56:57 that way you wouldn't have to guess the encoding 01:57:53 ais523: Well, you can use UTF-8 if you want, or whatever 01:57:53 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:57:54 shachaf: that sort of works but is a bit inconvenient 01:58:01 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 01:58:05 elliott: SORRY 01:58:09 "tough" 01:59:02 elliott: abs(x % 8 - 3) almost works 01:59:13 that's 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0… 01:59:36 It is probably much slower than internet, although, this also is advantage which allows working over nearly any physical systems, and prevents the government or whoever from spying on you or deleting things, and also with a lot more security must be included in the system, to allow updates similar to wiki or in other ways. 01:59:39 or abs(x % 6 - 2) is 2 1 0 1 2 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 2 1 0… 01:59:51 abs(((x+3) % 7) - 3) 01:59:58 Not sure what the point of the % 4 was. 02:00:08 ais523: that's good enough 02:00:26 yes, it's not what you asked for, but I thought it might be what you wanted 02:00:48 What's this for? 02:00:53 I think ais523 has inside information. 02:01:09 The standard encoding is considered ASCII rather than UTF-8, not only because Unicode is too complicated, but also to avoid homograph attacks and stuff like that. Nevertheless, you can use whatever encoding you need for the file you are posting. 02:01:15 Also ais523's thing is obviously a derivative work. 02:01:22 ais523: hmm, where is the 8 even coming from? 02:01:23 oh, duh 02:01:24 ais523 the mindreader 02:01:35 cycle length 02:01:47 right 02:01:53 so it is abs(x % k*2 - (k-1)) 02:02:00 I had a % 7 already. 02:02:04 > iterate (\x -> (abs (x % 6 - 2))) 02:02:05 Not in scope: `%' 02:02:05 Perhaps you meant `R.%' (imported from Data.Ratio) 02:02:14 shachaf: now I'm trying to figure out which UPS flights my package will be on 02:02:15 > iterate (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2))) 02:02:16 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (a0 -> [a0])) 02:02:16 arising from a use of `M629... 02:02:18 looking at flightaware.com 02:02:36 > iterate (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2))) 0 02:02:37 [0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,2,0,... 02:02:38 kmc: Doesn't a laptop have a built-in UPS? 02:02:46 -_- 02:02:52 Oh wait 02:02:55 What am I doing 02:03:12 > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 6 - 2))) [0..] 02:03:14 [2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,2,... 02:03:34 > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 4))) [0..] 02:03:36 [4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,4,... 02:03:48 > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 2))) [0..] 02:03:50 [2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,2,... 02:03:56 Hmm 02:04:07 > map (\x -> (abs (x `mod` 12 - 5))) [0..] 02:04:08 [5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,5,... 02:04:18 In order to make decentralized 100% one of my ideas is that duplicate addresses are allowed, addresses can change as often as you want, needs no relevance to physical locations or hardware, and can be considered as coordinates in an infinite-dimensional space. 02:05:37 (t>>8|t|t>>(t>>6))*6+((t>>4)&7) 02:06:02 GreyKnight: tbh i don't think central addressing is the way forward for worldeating nanobots 02:06:04 zzo38: and how will routing work? 02:06:40 I was considering making a system where adresses are actually relative, though it was more an alternative to usb than to the internet. 02:07:03 kmc: There is no routing; that is why it is so slow. 02:07:18 well 02:07:23 you are more honest than most protocol designers 02:07:29 haha. 02:07:46 this sounds like a pretty esoteric network 02:08:00 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:08:08 do you require that each address has only finitely many nonzero coordinates? 02:08:09 do the packets just kind of meander around until they arrive at their destination by happenstance? 02:08:18 With relative addressing, how it works is that for each routher/switch whatever, you ahve a part of the adress that says what physical connection to forward the signal through. 02:08:29 ais523: Yes, it would have to; but there is no limit. 02:08:31 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 02:08:40 To like for one that has three connections you jsut have a bit that says to turn either right or left. 02:09:00 this sounds like a pretty esoteric network <-- "perfect" 02:09:13 `welcome zzo38 02:09:16 zzo38: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:09:17 MDude: didn't telephones used to work like that? 02:09:22 each digit in the number was parsed by a different switch 02:09:33 and told it which other switch to connect to 02:09:39 `run sed -i 's/ and deployment//' wisdom/welcome 02:09:41 Possibly. 02:09:43 i thought telephones used to work by asking an operator to figure it out for you 02:09:43 No output. 02:09:50 Bike: that was even earlier 02:09:59 kmc: Kind of. You can know which address is closer to the target. Also, you might not need a target if you have an old copy of the data (which anyone might archive, even if they don't know what it is), and if you have the key you can decrypt it. So, it can be meant for everyone with the key, rather than only one target. 02:09:59 `welcome shachaf 02:10:02 shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:10:16 Though I would try to add packets to that, instead of it needing to be a continuous circuit. 02:10:18 zzo38: do you know about distributed hash tables 02:10:19 also hm, this seems a bit like how i think freenode works 02:10:25 GreyKnight: Thanks, but it's just not the same. 02:10:29 jinx! 02:10:31 And new versions can override old versions, sort of like git or other source code repositories, or similar to a wiki a bit 02:10:43 Bike: freenet, you mean? or something else? 02:10:46 shachaf: yours didn't have deployment for some reason 02:10:50 um. yes. DHTs and all. 02:10:58 oh, you removed it! How dare you 02:12:08 kmc: You should make a distributed content-addressed thing that everyone uses for everything. 02:12:20 hey, have we ever actually deployed an esolang? 02:12:21 hm not only could you implement bytebeat music in discrete logic, you could build a board with the necessary components and have a plugboard to change the way it connects together 02:12:30 I mean, apart from me talking to the Debian packagers about INTERCAL? 02:12:45 What is "deployed"? 02:13:49 free to blame 02:13:57 `welcome 02:13:59 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:14:29 `revert 02:14:32 Done. 02:14:32 needs more deployment 02:14:35 `revert 02:14:38 Done. 02:14:41 `welcome 02:14:42 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:14:55 revert fite 02:15:01 'welcome everybody 02:15:08 ... 02:15:12 backtick dear 02:15:13 ` 02:15:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 02:15:20 `welcome everybody 02:15:21 everybody: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:15:25 now look what you made me do 02:15:34 Good, that covers all the bases ever. 02:16:03 Oh, and Hackego found out he can't find nothing. 02:16:21 zzo38: I like the idea and you should place a more detailed writeup somewhere 02:16:45 `run touch "" 02:16:47 touch: cannot touch `': No such file or directory 02:17:00 what a shame 02:17:17 Use nothing, not something. If you use something you might get nothing. Anything, really. 02:17:19 MDude: deployment's basically shipping something out to as many people as possible, in the computing world 02:17:37 the other common usage of the term is to do with deploying troops 02:17:39 in fact an unsolved problem is how nothing can weight so little 02:17:42 Bike: weird error message, though 02:17:56 I got the same locally. I wonder what the hell it means. 02:18:25 GreyKnight: Yes I should. Note that everything is encrypted, and that you can use QR codes or ham radio or disks or even over internet whatever; therefore it is unblockable. 02:18:50 well, unless you block ALL of it :-) 02:18:53 You should organize a counter-strike game to be played over ham radio. 02:19:16 solid steel shell around ALL the things 02:19:38 just hit the shells rhythmically to encode vibrations 02:20:43 Use trained elephants, they communicate subsonically. 02:21:09 hmm… wouldn't most radios filter out the encodings of subsonic transmissions? 02:21:11 Wait no. 02:21:14 Infrasonic. 02:21:42 it's definitely possible to transmit them, just there isn't normally any point and it just adds to noise floor 02:21:51 also typical speakers can't produce them anyway 02:23:47 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:23:47 Also you can't hear it anyway, by definition. 02:24:08 That's why you receive it with naother trained elephant. 02:24:10 *another 02:25:01 unless you're not using amplitude or frequence modulation..how is that infrasonic manipulation realized anyway? 02:25:20 -!- greyooze has joined. 02:25:33 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight. 02:25:49 However the elephants normally make them? 02:26:03 That's why you use them instead of having an infrasonic machine. 02:26:10 They already know how to do it. 02:26:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:26:40 i see 02:26:45 Today on #esoteric: elephant-based security exploits 02:28:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:32:13 I originally installed [a referer forger] for esolangs.org after that hilarious incident with the spam filter 02:32:15 ? 02:33:43 Having hundreds of Chrome tabs is... not very sustainable. <-- I occasionally use FF's "bookmark all" to just splat all of them into a bookmark directory, then close all the things 02:33:48 GreyKnight: basically graue used to spam-filter things by regexing against the entire HTTP request 02:33:56 at least, that's what we /think/ was happening 02:34:05 someone made a spam page with a spam link in its URL, somehow 02:34:17 and all attempts to edit it were failing because the spam link was part of the referer 02:34:36 awesome. 02:34:43 we figured it out eventually 02:34:49 after we couldn't even get to the main page from the spam page 02:34:57 '_' 02:35:10 now i want to try making pages named after spam websites all over wikia. 02:35:22 Bike: wikia probably doesn't use graue's filter 02:35:23 we don't either 02:35:30 among the other things it filtered were
if you find any old pages on esowiki, they sometimes use bizarre workarounds to this 02:35:49 whatyouneedwhenyouneedit.wikia.com 02:35:49 `addquote Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks 02:35:53 868) Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks 02:36:09 elliott is either a grumpy old man or a 20-year-old 02:36:17 imo 868 02:36:31 or he's just been spending too long using web browsers 02:36:35 shachaf do you know what IMO stands for 02:37:00 International Market Object 02:37:07 GreyKnight: I don't think he's 20 yet, but argumably he's a grumpy old man either 02:37:13 argumably 02:37:25 you are a wordsmitharttist 02:37:30 elliott: I actually caught both typos in that sentence but decided they were too good to remove 02:37:33 especially the first 02:38:00 ais523: btw it wasn't Graue's fault 02:38:03 it was some dumb host thing 02:38:08 oh right 02:38:12 it was Graue's webhost 02:38:15 rather than Graue himself 02:38:21 what's a graue and am i likely to be eaten by it 02:38:22 elliott: do you use IceChat? 02:38:24 this is why me ruling everything is better 02:38:27 GreyKnight: i... no 02:38:42 Hm you are disproving my conjecture 02:38:45 kmc: he runs esoteric.voxelperfect.net 02:38:49 which still exists 02:38:52 it also used to host the wiki 02:39:06 the Alan Dipert added esolangs.org as a redirect to it 02:39:12 and now elliott owns both esolangs.org and the wiki 02:39:27 mmm chorizo fried rice 02:40:23 If I want working Factor I'm going to need to compile it myself aren't I 02:41:07 what the hell are you doing sgeo, it's just a download 02:41:48 Bike, using a version of Linux with a too old something or other for the binary 02:42:15 ./factor: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.15' not found (required by ./factor) 02:42:44 ais523: it's "THE ALAN DIPERT", btw 02:42:52 and I don't own esolangs.org 02:43:02 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:43:07 elliott: in allcaps? 02:43:09 Also, related to Factor but unrelated to my issues: Bike: It just occurred to me today that you could put quotations in the values for throw-restart and then call after that 02:43:19 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:43:23 I think it's funier if you just add the pronoun 02:43:24 Is Factor the new Clojure, sgeo? 02:43:28 shachaf, maybe 02:43:42 Except the lack of a community scares me 02:43:44 sounds inconvenient 02:43:55 shachaf: how long will it be before there's a programming language equivalent of "black is the new black"? 02:44:08 java is the new c++, I think i've heard before 02:44:14 Although the relative lack of libraries scares me 02:44:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:44:22 Although it does come with plenty of cool stuff 02:44:57 Bike: you have to be able to put the same name on both sides 02:45:04 Wait, a language with a lack of community? 02:45:11 perl is the new perl? i dunno 02:45:12 in order to do this, "X is the new Y" has to become a meme, with variable X and fixed Y 02:45:15 shit is the new shit 02:45:17 or vice versa, but that's less likely 02:45:22 * MDude immediatly starts using it. 02:45:40 you can't force a snowclone. 02:45:41 MDude: lots of esolangs have no community, unless you count this one 02:45:48 some have no community even if you count this one 02:45:52 a language for misanthropes you say! sign me up!!! 02:45:57 ais523: The thing that's going to be fixed here is new, not Y. 02:45:59 you won't find anyone in here willing to program in ESME, for instance 02:45:59 MDude, there's a Factor community, but it's ... small 02:46:01 (GET IT????????) 02:46:11 @google esolang esme 02:46:13 shachaf: gah, now I'm trying to calculate fix new in my head 02:46:13 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme 02:46:13 Title: Esme - Esolang 02:46:15 but new has the wrong type 02:46:18 I am disappointed 02:46:27 oh, Esme, sorry, not ESME 02:46:31 nice logo 02:46:42 eliott: http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/?oneliner=t*5%26(t%3E%3E7)%7Ct*3%26(t*2%3E%3E10)&oneliner2=&t0=0&tmod=0&duration=30&separation=100&rate=8000 02:46:44 Category:Shameful 02:46:49 is this a joke? 02:46:58 oh sorry, a "lol" 02:47:02 Bike: read the talk page too, if you like 02:47:06 we're… not entirely sure 02:47:09 Bike: lulz epic fail 02:47:14 the most charitable explanation is, we think it's performance art 02:47:15 it's sorta canon 02:47:16 * kmc jumps off nearest bridge 02:47:20 hagb4rd: nice 02:47:27 When I first saw it, I was expecting it to be "esme, Mario!" 02:47:36 user:zzo38, you are the wind beneath my wings 02:47:40 reminds me of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck 02:47:42 it fits in quite well as performance art 02:47:42 But I guess that would be Eseme. 02:47:51 kmc: that is oklopol's best language imo 02:47:55 even if it doesn't fit in well as anything else 02:47:58 kmc: beautiful 02:48:14 kmc: I think I started the conversation that lead to that being invented 02:48:55 the idea was to create a language as unlike brainfuck as possible 02:49:24 oh, i kind of figured it was meant to evoke an incredibly complicated way of arriving at a sequence of instructions drawn from 8 possibilities 02:49:35 nope 02:49:42 i'm with kmc 02:49:53 making it a BF derivative would defeat the entire point 02:50:06 also are there any web frameworks yet for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 02:50:25 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download on Rails 02:50:30 I thought the point was satire by making the "brainfuck in a weird encoding" thing seem ridiculous. 02:50:38 cpressey is good at naming languages creatively 02:50:48 zzo38 is a master of playing it straight 02:50:48 shachaf: are you sure 02:51:04 elliott: Yes. 02:51:07 I named a language the sound that's written in IPA as /ˈæmbiːɛf/ in homage to the way he names things 02:51:16 Please don't encourage trolls. 02:51:23 Unless you're keb. 02:51:39 shachaf: do you know what TikZ stands for? 02:51:51 shachaf: also Y fixes its argument, it's not like you can give it to things as an argument and it fixes them 02:51:53 kmc: Not off-hand -- should I? 02:51:55 "TikZ ist kein Zeichenprogramm" 02:52:31 @remember keb solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ 02:52:32 Nice! 02:52:38 Good thing this is #esoteric and not #haskell. 02:53:19 @photontorpedo 02:53:20 troll? 02:53:46 @forget keb solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ 02:53:47 Done. 02:53:48 elliott: what because in #haskell now 20 people would be trying to explain in good natured but entirely useless ways that functions are not automatically called 4.41 times per second? 02:53:55 -!- keb has joined. 02:54:07 ...Oh. 02:54:19 solike,.,.,. ,I wana know.,,., with this HASKOR junk,..,., do like functions AUTOMATICALLY get called 4.41 times per second? is that called in MAIN? and where do exicutibles get paused on the chip? PM PLZ 02:54:25 good to see this backfired on shachaf 02:54:46 elliott: Well, keb fits right in here. 02:54:47 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 02:54:59 elliott: how did that work? 02:55:06 ais523: I went back in time. 02:55:21 ais523: "X is the new X" means that X is the fixed point of new 02:55:23 quoting someone in lambdabot doesn't normally cause them to join a channel 02:55:28 Well, a fixed point. 02:55:28 shachaf: by the way, if you don't know what the "deployment" in the welcome message is for, you should stop removing it 02:55:28 shachaf: aha, I see 02:55:29 X = New X 02:55:35 `run sed -i 's/implementation/implementation/' wisdom/welcome 02:55:37 No output. 02:55:52 elliott: If you want me to stop removing it, you should tell me what it's for. 02:55:54 elliott: that's a no-op, isn't it? 02:56:03 apparently it is 02:56:09 `run sed -i 's/implementation/deployment/' wisdom/welcome 02:56:11 or is there malicious Unicode in there somewhere? 02:56:12 No output. 02:56:17 shachaf: I think there are easier ways to get you to stop removing it 02:56:33 anyway, I think I've deployed at least two esolangs now 02:56:41 ais523: What does the "deployment" mean in `welcome? 02:56:43 so I'm probably beating the rest of you 02:56:46 shachaf: it means "deployment" 02:56:50 what did you expect it to mean? 02:56:52 ais523: OK, what's it for? 02:57:02 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 02:57:39 shachaf: have you ever deployed an esolang? 02:57:56 if not, you need more welcoming 02:57:58 shachaf: you just re-removed it in private yet again. please stop misusing HackEgo. 02:58:00 @wn deployment 02:58:01 *** "deployment" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 02:58:01 deployment 02:58:01 n 1: the distribution of forces in preparation for battle or 02:58:01 work 02:58:01 `revert 02:58:02 this is a waste of time 02:58:04 Done. 02:58:06 `revert 02:58:09 Done. 02:58:18 elliott: Agreed. 02:58:25 change it to "implementation, debate, and deployment" 02:58:49 elliott: see [[Pahana]], copyvio? non-esoteric? 02:58:57 I'd heard of it before the article was written 02:59:20 shachaf: why are you edit warring with elliott? 02:59:54 ais523: Why is elliott edit warring with me? 03:00:00 he's changing it back 03:00:07 to the version it's been for ages 03:00:24 when changing something central like `welcome, it helps to have a good reason for the change 03:00:32 especially when most other people seem to disagree with you 03:00:35 What's the " and deployment" for? 03:00:39 I didn't rearrange Wikipeia's main page on a whim 03:00:41 As far as I can tell only elliott disagrees with me. 03:00:44 there is a reason to assume an action I take with HackEgo is not in bad faith, which doesn't apply for you, since all you do with it is interrupt conversations with passive-aggressive `quotespam and delete stuff 03:00:48 shachaf: I also disagree with you 03:00:48 yawn 03:00:58 Gregor: can we ban shachaf from HackEgo yet? 03:01:05 Gregor: I approve. 03:01:30 shachaf: I don't see why you feel the need to take actions that you think will result in you being kicked/banned from IRC channels/bots/etc. 03:01:37 Isn't that what cheater does? 03:01:50 I don't want to be kicked from this channel? 03:01:54 yeah, I take a similar view of that as I do to people who like getting thrown out of games for breaking the rules 03:01:58 in each case, you want them around 03:02:03 `pastlog .*kick 03:02:05 shachaf: ...have you forgotten the hundred times you've demanded an op of this channel to kick you 03:02:10 2012-10-26.txt:21:30:48: ais523: You should kick me for flooding. 03:02:12 `pastlog .*kick 03:02:19 2012-04-20.txt:05:42:55: oerjan: Kick me while you're at it! 03:02:20 `pastlog .*kick 03:02:27 2012-04-14.txt:19:36:30: «shahcahef foiled myy jkoe :'( - eliot hird kick him - eliottt» - elliott 03:02:27 OK, I don't want to be kicked from this channel anymore. 03:02:43 Maybe I did at the time, but there's a good reason to stay in it now. 03:02:46 shähcähëf 03:02:59 shachaf: which is? 03:03:05 messing with the bot, presumably 03:03:08 sħäħcäħëf 03:03:13 you have a lot of 'h'es in your name, dude 03:03:21 That doesn't seem very pronounceable. 03:03:32 i don't know how to pronounce ħ 03:04:00 but i can't pronounce שכהף either 03:04:07 That's not how my name is pronounced. 03:04:11 It's שחף. 03:04:13 I can't pronounce ë 03:04:22 ok 03:04:25 There's no "k". 03:04:26 at least, apart from the English pronunciation in words like Zoë 03:04:27 google has failed me once again 03:05:11 ais523: isn't that a normal e, just with a diaeresis to indicate that it's not a dipthong 03:05:15 `run cat bin/welcome 03:05:16 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 03:05:17 kmc: yes 03:05:26 ok 03:05:27 hmm 03:05:31 `run cat wisdom/welcome 03:05:32 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and implementation! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:05:35 `revert 03:05:38 Done. 03:05:41 `run cat wisdom/welcome 03:05:42 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:05:46 there we go 03:05:54 `run ls wisdom 03:05:55 ais523: btw, you appear to have misremembered most brainfuckest [etc.]'s origins 03:05:56 ​? \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ais523 \ atriq \ augur \ banach-tarski \ boily \ bonvenon \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ england \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finnish \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ freefull \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ gaspacho \ gazpacho \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ 03:05:58 10:41:18: hey duddes how about this language i've been designing the last 4 months where you take brainfuck except well call it brainfuckER and you reverse all the characters, and you have to draw the program in paint? and then there's brainfuckiest where you just say beep boop in a microphone and it's interpreted as a fibonacci code word and then it's multiplied by 7 and then it's interpreted as a brainfuck program except that if you prin 03:06:05 that probably got cut off but it doesn't matter 03:06:15 `? ☃ 03:06:17 ​☃ brrr... 03:06:21 `? � 03:06:23 ​�? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 03:06:32 kmc: you only copied half the character 03:06:42 `? endofunctor 03:06:43 Endofunctors are just endomorphisms in the category of categories. 03:06:45 `run ls wisdom | xz -9 | base64 03:06:47 xz: (stdin): Cannot allocate memory 03:06:48 `? ȫ 03:06:49 ​ȫ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 03:07:00 ő_ő 03:07:08 Quite. 03:07:24 `? ais523 03:07:25 ais523 is ais523. This topic may retroactively become more informative if or when Feather is invented. 03:07:31 oh right, it's a Feather joke 03:07:38 like those didn't get old years ago 03:07:48 U+022B: LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS AND MACRON 03:07:49 why 03:07:51 why why why 03:07:54 (GreyKnight is allowed to make them for another couple of months because he's new) 03:08:13 fungot, please inform me of feather. 03:08:14 MDude: a day and i was telling her that that americans are not patient people we like fast cars and we're like oh if we've gotta save money hey wait a minute y- you know how 03:08:18 kmc: to stop your ō getting merged with a vowel before it, obviously 03:08:26 ohhhhh 03:08:37 today i told some people that ASCII is not sufficient for English 03:08:50 kmc: punk 03:08:56 kmc – it isn't… 03:09:34 also: it lacks the currency symbol of many english speaking countries 03:09:51 also: if scotland becomes independent then there will be another currency union in the EU besides the Euro 03:09:55 that's funny 03:09:59 kmc: it doesn't have £ /or/ € 03:10:05 right 03:10:12 kmc: what did they say 03:10:13 or ¬ 03:10:23 elliott: i guess they agreed with me 03:10:29 What would their currency be called? 03:10:31 not so punk any more 03:10:33 and / or decided to stay quite until the crazy person stopped talking 03:10:38 MDude: they would keep using the UK pound 03:10:42 it is thought 03:10:45 IMO they should adopt the yen 03:10:51 they'd use the Scottish pound 03:10:51 how great a piece of trivia would that be 03:10:55 "did you know Scotland uses the yen?" 03:10:56 there is already a strange arrangement where scottish pounds are printed by private scottish banks 03:11:02 which is IIRC freely interconvertible 1:1 to the UK pound 03:11:12 which are then obliged to hold in reserves of bank of england pounds 03:11:15 yeah 03:11:16 except that many shops won't accept Scottish money because they're worried it'll be fake 03:11:25 i'm worried that scotland is fake 03:11:31 i mean, i've never been there 03:11:40 like, it's easier to forge or something 03:11:45 kmc: it's not very far from Hexham 03:11:51 where all esolangers live 03:11:54 so you should go there 03:11:56 elliott: enjoy your 0% inflation forever 03:12:03 hint: this is not good 03:12:28 kmc: you're an inflation 03:12:38 btw I have been to Scotland and I can confirm it is fake 03:12:40 my economist friends tell me that the japanese central bank has basically been taken over by old people who want their retirement savings to be valuable, and fuck the young people, we'll be dead by then 03:13:26 ais523: is it actually easier to counterfeit or are the shops just dumb 03:13:44 If there's no Scotland, then where are people calling when they call Scotland Yard? 03:13:54 kmc: I suspect it's easier to counterfeit; but more to the point, the shops don't know what it looks like, so they couldn't detect even quite bad fakes 03:13:58 mm 03:14:11 there was that famous incident just after the euro was introduced 03:14:13 like the walmart that accepted a $1,000,000 bill with george w bush's face on it 03:14:22 where some people got a fortune using fake €300 notes 03:14:26 haha 03:14:26 score 03:14:30 (a nonexistent denomination) 03:14:57 kmc: there was also that incident recently where someone tried to cash in a trillion dollars of fake US bonds 03:15:03 and got caught because they'd misspelt "dollar" 03:15:05 hahaha 03:15:18 I'm not sure if they would have been caught anyway or not 03:15:23 I'm guessing yes, but no makes for a funnier story 03:15:26 there were some people caught somewhere in europe with like $10b worth of treasury notes in a suitcase 03:15:34 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 03:15:42 real ones? or fake? 03:15:46 it's pretty crazy either way 03:15:55 allegedly counterfeit but the conspiracy theory is that they were real and the US convinced Italy or whoever to destroy them quietly 03:16:44 elliott: india is also an english speaking country and their currency symbol isn't in ASCII either 03:16:52 but it's also like 3 years old and looks like star wars money 03:17:36 Make notes that claim to be for negative amounts of money. 03:17:54 Obviously, print it with red ink. 03:18:10 kmc: what does star wars money look like? 03:18:23 MDude: we've had fun adventures with negative quantities of money in NetHack 03:18:29 they're actually practically useful, for their negative weight 03:18:46 http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?648 03:19:00 (a fun thought experiment for anyone who likes absurd arithmetic) 03:19:38 How much did those -2147483604 zorkmids weigh? Usually my character would be dead under the abs of that weight. 03:19:44 http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051201231848/starwars/images/1/13/CreditChip.jpg Star Wars Galactic Standard Credit Chip 03:19:47 Bike: you're nega-rich! 03:20:10 i found suseorc's vault! 03:21:52 i guess it's like the question of whether antimatter is subject to antigravity. which is apparently a serious question. 03:23:33 fucking gravity, how does it work? 03:23:37 Bike: a negative amount 03:23:55 ais523: given nethack i'd expect that to crush me into the dungeon ceiling, killing me 03:23:57 it's quite useful, you can carry basically unlimited amounts of stuff because the gold counterweighs it 03:34:17 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:39:03 wtf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCRPUv8V22o&feature=player_detailpage#t=313s 03:41:06 -!- keb has changed nick to kbbb. 03:47:07 this guy has also an interesting channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKMrBaXJvMs&list=UURRqeqAXdCC8GgatzHO3VWA&index=1 04:01:29 -!- monqy has joined. 04:04:21 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:12:26 -!- kbbb has left. 04:13:01 ais523: oh, re: Pahana, I have no idea 04:13:04 where did you hear of it? 04:13:37 not sure 04:13:46 it may have been a blog 04:18:12 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:20:55 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 04:49:40 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 04:51:36 -!- lightquake has changed nick to Guest. 04:51:36 -!- Guest has changed nick to 1JTAAT864. 04:55:42 -!- keb has joined. 05:04:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:13:36 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 05:22:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:22:59 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 05:37:43 ^asc ⚣ 05:37:44 226. 05:37:48 ^ord ⚣ 05:37:48 226 154 163 05:38:04 argh 05:38:28 why the heck can't google search for a unicode character simply by pasting it :( 05:38:46 oh right, axiom 1 05:39:04 oerjan: Monad axiom 1? 05:40:11 Deewiant: um???? You've forgotten axiom 1 of everything: everything sucks 05:40:37 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:40:47 approximately 20 lines above that character in the logs 05:41:08 oerjan: Are you suggesting that I logread? 05:41:09 * oerjan found it via fileformat.info 05:41:22 oh no, wouldn't _dream_ of it. 05:41:39 oerjan: You could just search unic.txt... 05:41:56 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 05:42:19 Oh, you don't have unic.txt 05:42:25 Here's an old Perl program I used to use: 05:42:29 http://slbkbs.org/unic.pl.txt 05:42:46 I think it was originally written by Larry Wall. 05:42:50 shachaf, the point here is i want to find it without having to engage my brain. 05:42:54 Mostly because of that comment. 05:43:03 oerjan: I don't have a brain and I still found it... 05:43:17 okay 05:43:22 ⚠ 05:43:30 /!\ 05:47:20 !bfjoust defend9 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/6f8e08560f66/ais523_defend9.bfjoust 05:47:34 ​Score for ais523_defend9: 16.4 05:47:52 why the resubmit 05:48:07 was wondering how well my good programs from years ago did nowadays 05:48:11 !bfjoust defend7 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/e908fcf1f035/ais523_defend7.bfjoust 05:48:16 ​Score for ais523_defend7: 25.4 05:48:36 defend7 is up there, at least 05:48:49 defend9 is not going to do well in today's world of stupidly large offset clears 05:49:14 haha, it beats /all/ Gregor's programs, apart from the one that's actually jix's 05:49:31 and mostly by pretty large margins too 05:49:33 defend7, that is 05:49:51 also it beats death_to_defence on one polarity, somehow 05:50:16 :( 05:50:25 actually that makes no sense 05:50:36 htf does one of my old defence programs beat death_to_defence? 05:51:09 its a zombie 05:51:11 cant dead a zombie 05:51:13 irl 05:51:26 * ais523 checks on egojsout 05:51:53 oh, haha, death_to_defence falls back to a 4-cycle clear :) 05:52:03 and defend7's lock works on both 2-cycle clears and 4-cycle clears 05:52:28 but not perfectly 05:52:32 wow, it wins by just a few cycles 05:53:31 oh, no 05:53:34 it does have a perfect lock 05:53:47 just it doesn't look like one because it's not an undetectable perfect lock 05:54:54 moral of the story: nested timer clears are hard to get right 05:56:04 stupid theory: modern programs spend so long setting up decoys that they can be beaten by a full-tape clear 05:56:06 * ais523 tests 05:56:58 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(6)*5(>(+.)*255+)*21 05:57:01 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 6.9 05:57:03 good 05:57:12 I'd have been really worried if that won 05:57:27 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(6)*5(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:57:30 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 16.0 05:57:33 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>---(>)*5(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:57:35 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 25.3 05:57:38 oh come /on/ 05:57:47 this is, like, the slowest clear loop in existence 05:58:46 actually it does pretty badly 05:58:51 not sure why it's scoring so well 05:59:05 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++>--->++>--(>)*3(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:59:08 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 20.4 05:59:16 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear (>)*8(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:59:19 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 23.4 05:59:29 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >>++(>)*6(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:59:31 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 21.4 05:59:37 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:59:40 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 22.7 05:59:43 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 05:59:46 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9 05:59:54 28.9 isn't bad 05:59:56 haha, who's using a size-3 offset clear? :) 06:00:08 apparently, quintopia 06:00:12 either that or it's just typing coincidence 06:00:32 *timing coincidence 06:00:34 but yes 06:00:47 how a program that slow can do that well simply by being 100% immune to decoys 06:00:52 it's like a half-speed turtle 06:01:00 or, well, an offset turtle that offsets the entire range 06:01:23 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[+[--[(+.)*255+>]>]>])*21 06:01:26 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.5 06:01:33 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:01:35 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9 06:02:08 ooh 06:02:19 (wrong window) 06:02:43 still, that thing making top half of the leaderboard is ridiculous :) 06:03:03 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*8(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:03:06 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 26.2 06:03:10 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:03:13 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 28.9 06:03:23 hmm, I thought that was a program that might benefit from the elliott sacrifice 06:03:26 but apparently not 06:03:39 the elliott is a standard unit of sacrifice measure 06:03:43 it's equivalent to 11.4 goats 06:03:46 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++(>)*4++++(>)*3(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:03:49 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 23.1 06:03:56 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:03:59 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 29.3 06:04:03 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:04:05 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8 06:04:09 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >+++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:04:11 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8 06:04:17 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:04:20 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 29.3 06:04:23 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+.)*255+>])*21 06:04:26 OK 6 is optimal :) 06:04:26 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.8 06:04:31 ais523: you need an optimiser program for this :) 06:04:35 wait, don't you have one? 06:04:37 I do 06:04:47 but it's not very good for optimizing decoy setups 06:05:16 I'm wondering if the strategy even /can/ be tweaked 06:05:26 I guess I could use a smaller offset on the turtle 06:05:37 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*64(+.)*127+>])*21 06:05:40 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 30.4 06:05:43 hmm, weird 06:05:52 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:05:55 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 33.8 06:05:58 there we go 06:06:09 I guess it's not an aggressive full tape clear any more though 06:06:13 !bfjoust aggressive_full_tape_clear < 06:06:16 ​Score for ais523_aggressive_full_tape_clear: 0.0 06:06:23 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:06:25 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 34.0 06:07:47 ais523: why can't it optimise decoy setups? 06:07:51 it should just be (+)*N, right? 06:08:03 it doesn't brute-force, tries to use an evo algo 06:08:16 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191>([(+)*32(+.)*191>])*20](>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:08:19 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:08:21 that should be equivalent 06:08:26 apparently I messed up somewhere 06:08:48 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:08:50 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:08:57 oh, just the board settling 06:09:23 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*50(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:09:26 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.1 06:09:31 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*90(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:09:33 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 28.1 06:09:38 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(-)*20(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:09:41 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.9 06:09:47 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:09:50 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:09:54 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8+(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:09:57 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:10:06 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(+)*10(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:10:09 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:10:12 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*8(+)*20(>)*8(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:10:15 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 32.5 06:10:38 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*8[(+)*32(+.)*191+>([(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20](<)*6++++++>++++++>------(>)*4(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*20 06:10:40 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 24.6 06:10:50 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:10:53 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:10:54 let's go back to the simple version 06:12:25 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+..)*191+>])*21 06:12:28 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 31.1 06:12:29 why do you keep offsetting the pure turtle 06:12:35 *poor 06:12:43 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(++.)*191+>])*21 06:12:46 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 26.7 06:12:54 hmm, both interesting results there 06:13:02 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:13:04 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:13:10 it's either much faster than programs, or much slower 06:13:25 or programs are falling off against it due to it only setting one decoy 06:13:30 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7+(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:13:32 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 28.9 06:13:49 yeah, that's the difference it makes if you change the decoy setup even slightly 06:13:53 thus, the high score is an illusion 06:14:04 or else a sign that people should stop relying on ridiculous decoy setups 06:14:10 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*32(+.)*191+>])*21 06:14:14 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:14:28 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*48(+.)*159+>])*21 06:14:30 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.6 06:14:46 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*40(+.)*175+>])*21 06:14:49 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.6 06:15:01 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21 06:15:04 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:15:56 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7>[(+)*64(+.)*127+>](>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*20 06:15:59 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.3 06:16:07 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7>(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21 06:16:10 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 31.1 06:16:19 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21 06:16:22 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:16:31 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*21(++-----)*100000 06:16:33 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:16:44 heh, the "beat vibration programs on length 30" addition has no effect at all 06:17:34 !bfjoust very_offset_turtle >++++++(>)*7(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*-1 06:17:37 ​Score for ais523_very_offset_turtle: 33.8 06:17:40 I think I prefer the clean version 06:22:42 !bfjoust very_slow_offset_turtle >+++>+++>+++>--->---<(-)*65<(+)*65<(+)*65<(+)*65<(-)*65(>)*8(>[(+)*30(+.)*195+>])*-1 06:22:45 ​Score for ais523_very_slow_offset_turtle: 23.4 06:23:33 you cannot beat vibration, silly 06:24:08 yeah, obviously 06:24:13 !bfjoust very_slow_offset_turtle < 06:24:20 ​Score for ais523_very_slow_offset_turtle: 0.0 06:24:40 and yeah, very_offset_turtle doesn't work against defence unless it's lucky 06:24:47 it's a turtle, after all 06:26:54 !bfjoust 06:26:54 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 06:27:10 ais523: i forget, is bf joust still borken 06:27:11 *broken 06:27:16 whoah what is space hotel 06:27:27 it's not as healthy as it was but is recovering 06:27:35 I've beaten death_to_defence with at least two defence programs now 06:27:52 although there's no fundamental way to beat it, it could be tweaked to beat those at the cost of losing to others 06:27:57 "Gregor_furry_furry_leather_discipline_girls.bfjoust" why did i click 06:27:58 holy shit space hotel is fucking gigantic 06:28:11 Bike: don't worry, it's not porn 06:28:17 Gregor just likes weird names like that 06:28:17 i know 06:28:19 Bike: ais523 is lying, it's porn 06:28:22 hth 06:28:27 what is "hth" 06:28:32 other than some kind of strange laughter 06:28:41 hope this helps 06:28:46 it means "hope this doesn't help" 06:28:48 `pastelogs space_hotel 06:28:51 right ok 06:29:21 oh it's 300 K of brainfuck 06:29:22 No output. 06:29:23 welp 06:30:01 and bondage discipline whatever is ... no 06:30:08 god i hope this isn't porn. 06:30:18 Bike: watching it may be better than trying to read it: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ 06:30:26 why is HackEgo not responding... 06:30:35 Bike: (space_hotel is computer-generated) 06:30:44 as are some of Gregor's programs; those ones actually contain the program used to generate them 06:30:48 well, not generated as in evolved or anything 06:30:55 yes yes 06:31:00 I mostly write mine by hand 06:31:07 it's still more than enough brainfuck for one lifetime 06:31:13 I still think we should have a BF Joust oneliner competition 06:31:22 with ties broken by who spent the most time waiting 06:31:27 Bike: it's technically not even brainfuck! 06:31:38 yeah what's with the numbers 06:32:22 run-length encoding 06:32:22 you may find http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust helpful 06:32:49 and also http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies 06:32:49 it's just i mean, corewars is dorky enough, doing it in bf... i don't know if i'm willing to cross that line 06:33:00 which is one of the longest articles on the wiki I think 06:33:00 that "already in five freenode channels" line 06:33:48 ais523: hm, we should feature [[BF Joust strategies]] sometime 06:33:53 even if it isn't technically a language 06:33:54 elliott: oh, definitely 06:34:12 I can't because I wrote most of it 06:34:15 although it's a collaborative effort 06:34:19 ais523: so how does space hotel work 06:34:22 `pastelogs space_hotel 06:34:30 elliott: I'm guessing it's the same as quintopia_a 06:34:33 ais523: right, it is one of the longest articles mainly because you wrote it :) 06:34:45 * elliott thinks ais523 should try constrained writing 06:34:45 in which case it's described on the strategies page 06:34:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24532 06:34:53 either that, or it's an evolution of it 06:35:02 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/6d523478892c/quintopia_a.bfjoust 06:35:05 looks very different 06:35:08 hmm, OK 06:35:11 at least, space_hotel is much huger 06:35:26 though the basic structure looks similar 06:35:32 `echo hi 06:35:33 hi 06:35:36 `which pastelogs 06:35:38 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs 06:35:42 `run pastelogs friends 06:35:49 one thing that worries me is that deep poke + breadcrumb decoys + offset clear is not a strategy that anyone's figured out how to beat yet 06:35:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6010 06:36:11 apart from leviathan, none of the recent hilltoppers are significantly different from that 06:36:38 and the only known way to beat the strategy is to just pull off the same strategy more efficiently 06:36:47 Csound doesn't support looping zero times! 06:37:07 `run pastelogs 'space.hotel' 06:37:35 you could try to lock the clear loop; that's how defend7 beats Gregor's programs 06:37:42 but that itself seems beatable 06:37:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4494 06:38:10 02:58:59: !bfjoust space_hotel http://sprunge.us/hjjg 06:38:10 02:59:11: ​Score for quintopia_space_hotel: 65.3 06:38:10 03:00:22: !bfjoust a < 06:38:10 03:00:25: ​Score for quintopia_a: 0.0 06:38:12 looks like yes 06:38:21 @ask quintopia is the description for quintopia_a on the strategies page up-to-date for space_hotel? 06:38:21 Consider it noted. 06:38:50 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:39:26 i wonder if you could make an abstract srategy game so complicated that lipograms would start to resemble A Void. because tht's sure what it's looking like 06:39:29 and it's not like you can really attack the existence of breadcrumb decoys 06:39:55 except… hmm 06:40:01 which program should I pick on 06:40:33 oh, hahaha :) 06:40:40 !bfjoust this_somehow_beats_space_hotel >+ 06:40:47 ​Score for ais523_this_somehow_beats_space_hotel: 5.9 06:40:48 wait, no it doens't 06:40:51 only on short tapes 06:40:53 !bfjoust this_somehow_beats_space_hotel < 06:40:54 misread 06:40:56 ​Score for ais523_this_somehow_beats_space_hotel: 0.0 06:41:53 oh, the strategy I was going to use wouldn't work 06:42:06 space_hotel checks its breadcrumbs in the wrong order 06:43:08 yeah, I can't see a way to attack this particular breadcrumb trail strategy 06:43:17 like, exploit the existence of the strategy 06:43:19 but I'll think about it 07:00:51 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:02:57 !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UJOL 07:03:03 ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 9.0 07:03:40 Gregor_furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls.bfjoust vs ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly.bfjoust <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 42 ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly.bfjoust wins. 07:04:06 I don't see any way to generalize the technique to beat more than one program, though :( 07:04:54 it also works against space_hotel on very short tapes, for the same reason it works on ffspg 07:05:09 but won't work on longer tapes because it can't exploit pokes that don't leave trails 07:05:34 " oh, i kind of figured it was meant to evoke an incredibly complicated way of arriving at a sequence of instructions drawn from 8 possibilities" 07:05:45 um i'm pretty sure that indeed was the idea. 07:06:25 oklopol: oh, I missed the point then 07:06:32 haha, it beats dreadnought too 07:06:37 ais523: you should write a program that derives a warrior that beats the input warrior 07:06:38 for exactly the same reason it beats ffspg 07:06:46 it doesn't seem obviously uncomputable 07:06:49 elliott: I've had some thoughts about that 07:06:55 but there isn't an obvious way to do it that works in all cases 07:07:07 ais523: well, you can trivially do it, assuming such a program exists 07:07:09 because tape lengths are finite 07:07:34 I guess it could be "hard" in the sense that you could use your (quite tiny) state to write a warrior whose behaviour depends on some very complex computation 07:07:34 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 07:07:49 s.t. it would have to roll that inside out somehow 07:09:45 !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UhJN 07:09:48 ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 6.0 07:10:02 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 07:10:07 oh, miscalc 07:10:11 !bfjoust beats_ffspg_perfectly http://sprunge.us/UJOL 07:10:18 ​Score for ais523_beats_ffspg_perfectly: 9.0 07:10:29 there, it gets a perfect win against two really good warriors 07:14:01 I guess I could use some sort of slow undermine 07:14:28 but that doesn't work either because programs use a forward decoy setup for their breadcrumb filling 07:14:40 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:15:55 > "implementation/implementation" 07:15:56 "implementation/implementation" 07:28:50 `run echo 'Agent "Ïa" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving.' >wisdom/ais523 07:28:53 No output. 07:28:59 `? ais523 07:29:01 Agent "Ïa" Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. 07:32:18 Is that really true, or are you just fibbing? 07:35:59 well, the middle name may not be _entirely_ correct. 07:42:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:43:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:53:30 -!- 1JTAAT864 has changed nick to lightquake. 07:58:09 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:03:15 elliott, monqy Fiora ... update about 3 hours ago 08:13:25 -!- sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:14:23 -!- sgeo has joined. 08:15:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:18:05 [07:15:38] someone, someone, someone else: that thing there [007477] 08:18:11 Are you sure you want me to bring that thing here? 08:18:22 (For the record, it's 10:18 in this time zone now.) 08:23:33 > 0x007477 08:23:35 29815 08:24:21 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:25:03 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:37:41 I figured out something about Csound score macros. Macros can expand into comment delimiters, and macro invocations can be nested like $p$r.. and the macro name can include [] expressions 08:37:48 I think it's bit of a shame that even though it's zero-padded, it's not actually an octal number. 08:49:32 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:50:35 -!- augur has joined. 09:02:11 -!- aloril has joined. 09:05:35 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:05:56 -!- mtve has joined. 09:23:34 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:32:36 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:36:18 -!- aloril has joined. 09:38:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:58:35 -!- nooga has joined. 10:50:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:52:21 Hello 10:52:43 ∃ or ∃! ? 10:53:03 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:53:42 fungot: are you unique? 10:53:43 oerjan: ( ( oh)) i can't really say i've gone into the pentagon the plane you know 10:54:04 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:54:11 i'm ... not sure we are ready to know 10:55:17 fungot: I should probably keep a closer eye on what you're up to. 10:55:17 fizzie: not be to their benefit i think that um i guess a lot of 11:14:44 elliott, monqy Fiora Ph 11:17:24 "im afaid* so. i think the story is builting romantic tension between us." 11:18:10 Is there an unfungot? 11:18:11 Jafet: it's kind of like you know 11:18:33 What would an unfungot be like? 11:18:34 fizzie: and i don't 11:36:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:52:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:56:39 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 11:59:21 So fungot has gone into the Pentagon... And it will "not be to their benefit"... 11:59:21 Hm. 11:59:21 GreyKnight: yeah yeah i yeah i don't have 12:00:21 yeah yeah yeah 12:02:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:03:53 fungot: Are you, in fact, a terrrrorist? 12:03:53 fizzie: well you kind of have a business name or something that i i don't understand 12:04:11 A shady bot. 12:10:37 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:18:14 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:21:46 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: begone). 12:24:16 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:33:45 -!- ogrom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:34:25 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:41:42 -!- sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:43:35 -!- sgeo has joined. 12:44:04 So, guess what scheme the "hacker genius" at tech club came up with to make brute forcing harder 12:44:18 (against encryption) 12:44:28 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:44:41 Use several algorithms. Order of algorithms and which algorithms are used are secret similarly to the key 12:45:23 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 12:45:26 I tried to point out that that doesn't help as much as just adding a lot of bits to the key 12:45:44 what does hacker genius mean here 12:46:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:46:25 monqy, the person at tech club who apparently works as a penetration tester and thought that parameterized queries are vulnerable to null byte attacks 12:46:29 In PHP 12:46:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:47:06 so he's really not a hacker genius 12:47:06 ok 12:47:10 what's a tech club 12:47:18 Club at school 12:47:39 is it always like this 12:48:44 But I keep getting fascinated by what he says. It's like, when he says something I don't understand fully, he could be completely correct, but he could be wrong, I don't know, but when he talks about stuff I understand, he's just not that great 12:48:59 Although that USB thing that fakes being a keyboard is kind of cool 12:49:13 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 12:49:31 ???? 12:49:58 As in, it gets plugged in, it starts typing stuff to open a command prompt and do things on the system 12:51:08 ok 13:03:51 But when he talks about stuff I don't understand, I just find myself being impressed, even though I have no way of being sure that he knows what he's talking about 13:04:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:05:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:05:28 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:05:31 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined. 13:05:44 -!- hagb4rd2 has changed nick to hagb4rd. 13:21:43 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 13:28:32 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:35:30 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:37:31 elliott: I realised you don't actually break my hypothesis because your nick starts with a lowercase letter 13:37:40 My plan to video game today has a fatal flaw 13:38:35 It is Friday, and it would be socially unacceptable to video game away a Friday evening? 13:38:43 (I understand this be the case in some circles.) 13:38:44 No 13:38:51 I can't find my PS2 controller 13:39:07 Use a PS/2 controller instead. 13:39:21 That will work perfectly well! 13:39:23 Or a serial controller 13:39:34 A serial air traffic controller. 13:42:02 @quote 13:42:02 CodeWeaver says: keep in mind encryption's only as good as how much you trust that the implementors got it right. 13:43:28 as long as the implementors are smarter than me 13:43:28 quintopia: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 13:43:33 oh right that 13:50:18 If environment variables were structured we could store PATH as a list of strings, the way God intended 13:51:04 Maybe I should try scheme shell 13:52:20 Hmm 13:52:26 Would SBurb be a rogue-like? 13:53:00 A Set of Directory Names, you neanderthal 13:53:14 SBurb is a set of directory names!? 13:53:39 What is SBurb, fungot? 13:53:39 Jafet: you need to have 13:54:14 The bot's right, Jafet. 13:54:18 You need to have SBurb 13:54:34 Otherwise you won't survive the meteors 13:58:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:59:53 fungot: Do you have a copy? 13:59:53 fizzie: no we just passed the ban two weeks ago in the sunday league and they would have they'd be in jail why are you in 14:00:45 fungot: I approve of banning sburb. 14:00:45 Jafet: supplies that we could pay for 14:01:34 -!- boily has joined. 14:04:15 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:07:40 -!- nortti has joined. 14:10:15 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 14:10:44 Jafet: if it was a set we'd need a way of choosing between identically-named executables 14:11:12 Hmm unless we just run them all with the specified arguments and discard any results that gave an error? 14:13:42 OrderedSet? 14:13:52 Unrelated, but: "These criteria are not rigorous in any real sense (you'd need a formal semantics for Haskell in order to give a proper answer to this question)" 14:13:53 ^ Haskell doesn't have a formal semantics?!?? 14:14:18 Ah, an ordered set works 14:14:22 People didn't want to have formal semantics flamewars 14:14:39 Dry cleaning costs too much 14:14:55 I am totally surprised, Haskell seems like the language most likely to have one defined 14:17:13 Nobody needs one 14:19:06 When has *that* ever stopped people? 14:19:13 The kind of languages where people actually need formal semantics are: C, Java, PHP, ARMv6 14:19:31 (I did not make up those examples) 14:19:55 Do you know how many phd student grants a formal semantics costs 14:19:58 It's not free 14:21:01 PHP has formal semantics?!? 14:21:01 Or wait do you mean "needs" 14:21:28 There's a semantics for a fragment of PHP 14:21:41 They used it to find a language bug 14:21:54 I think it's in icfp 14:24:05 http://www.research.ibm.com/trl/people/mich/pub/200901_popl2009phpsem.pdf 14:24:20 Ok, it was in popl 14:24:22 "close enough" 14:25:05 Can't we just pay some grad students a year's worth of pot noodles? :o) 14:25:07 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Excess Flood). 14:25:39 The cost of the noodles is very small compared to the cost of the phd 14:26:19 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 14:28:22 Jafet: while searching for the paper, I got an Amazon link for "Low Prices on Formal Semantics". Forget the pot noodles, we'll order it online! 14:29:31 Ut-oh, checking "what was that weird angel book on display at the bookstore" wasn't the best idea w.r.t. Amazon recommendations: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Misc/20121214-amazon.png 14:38:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:59:04 -!- MDude has joined. 15:14:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:22:57 Standard ML famously has a formal semantics 15:23:07 but it's in some book that costs money :( 15:23:20 also mmm pot noodle 15:23:45 maybe i'll have shin ramyun for breakfast 15:24:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:24:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:24:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:30:03 -!- marcelino has joined. 15:30:55 * quintopia agrees with kmc 15:54:39 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 15:55:09 Stop making me hungry 15:57:51 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:05:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:06:31 -!- nooga has joined. 16:16:05 -!- Vorpal_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:17:53 -!- aloril has joined. 16:19:28 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:33:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:40:10 Currently impossible to build Factor from source 16:40:26 Because the build process downloads a binary image from some server, and that server is down 16:40:37 hilarious 16:40:41 Well, I guess not "impossible", but I don't know how I'd approach it 16:40:52 Other than waiting for it to be fixed 16:45:22 Building from binaries, eh? 16:45:30 @_@ 16:45:43 It's like SBCL 16:46:36 you mean it needs an existing factor compiler? 16:46:37 GreyKnight: not much other choice with a bootstrapping compiler 16:46:38 elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 16:47:16 Phantom_Hoover, yes 16:47:23 sgeo, SBCL can use any CL implementation, at least in theory. 16:48:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:49:02 -!- carado has joined. 16:49:05 I just thought of one feature that Squeak Smalltalk has that the Factor environment doesn't: The ability to, after an arbitrary exception, look around, change things, and continue on. I think that's doable in theory in Factor, but as far as I know the tooling isn't there. 16:49:20 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:49:50 I think one of the big draws of Factor to me is the environment, so... does this mean I should really be playing with Smalltalk? 16:50:22 Good question! 16:50:27 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:50:37 (I don't know the answer) 16:50:41 answer: should you??????? 16:50:58 whether playing with clojure or playing with smalltalk, you're just playing with yourself 16:51:48 Clojure has an almost decent sized community. Smalltalk has ... some sort of community, I think. It's really just Factor where I'd be almost alone 16:52:05 making a monads library for clojure is making a monads library for the people 16:53:27 Does lambdabot or hackego have a random-chooser? 16:53:44 yes 16:53:45 `? ngevd 16:53:48 ​#o 16:53:58 @rng clojure smalltalk factor 16:53:58 Maybe you meant: bug msg ping rc run wn 16:54:27 monqy: wat 16:55:08 `? ngevd 16:55:10 ​RQ1T"ue!5*bdPc|>.,Hc##5A~dtMO,ɹ/h)L@T.Ldz 16:55:55 `ls 16:55:57 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 16:56:17 double wat 16:56:27 Maybe I can write one for HackEgo 16:56:35 What languages can he manage? 16:56:50 ask Gregor 16:56:55 but a lot of them 16:57:02 they're all brainfuck derivatives though 16:57:04 Well, it's a Linux bot 16:57:08 `ls bin 16:57:09 ​? \ @ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ 1l \ 2l \ addquote \ adjust \ allquotes \ anonlog \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ boolfuck \ c \ calc \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ define \ delquote \ dimensifuck \ etymology \ forget \ forth \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ glass \ glypho \ google \ haskell \ hatesgeo \ hi \ jous 16:57:10 `python --version 16:57:11 Python 2.7 16:57:13 i see it still has 16:57:16 `perl --version 16:57:18 ​ \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 56 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta 16:57:20 `gcc --version 16:57:21 gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 16:57:22 `ls interps 16:57:24 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda 16:57:25 `ghc --version 16:57:26 "more languages" 16:57:29 The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 7.6.1 16:57:38 monqy: thats not what interps/ is 16:57:41 `lua -v 16:57:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lua: not found 16:57:50 :< 16:57:51 no lua I guess 16:57:51 elliott: i know... 16:58:05 FINE I'll use the occasion to practice my haskell 16:58:05 `ada --version 16:58:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ada: not found 16:58:13 no ada compiler? 16:58:16 `java --version 16:58:21 Unrecognized option: --version \ Could not create the Java virtual machine. 16:58:22 It needs a COBOL compiler 16:58:32 some sort of java wrapper at least 16:58:35 elliott: i forget what it is though 16:58:45 `java -version 16:58:49 java version "1.6.0_18" \ OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8.13) (6b18-1.8.13-0+squeeze2) \ OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode) 16:58:57 `ghdl --version 16:58:58 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ghdl: not found 16:59:07 `hatesgeo --version 16:59:08 ​ \ This is perl, v5.10.1 (*) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 56 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2009, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. \ \ Complete documenta 16:59:09 no VHDL emulator? 16:59:27 `vice 16:59:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: vice: not found 16:59:37 `ruby --version 16:59:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ruby: not found 16:59:45 no big loss there 16:59:58 `g++ --version 17:00:01 g++ (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 17:00:20 Gregor, can we get luarocks on HackEgo? Pretty please? 17:00:24 hm is there a javac though? 17:00:24 GreyKnight, `? ngevd is a link to /dev/urandom, if nobody explained that. 17:00:25 `javac --version 17:00:30 javac: invalid flag: --version \ Usage: javac \ use -help for a list of possible options 17:00:30 `ls -l wis 17:00:33 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 17:00:35 `javac -version 17:00:40 javac 1.6.0_18 17:00:42 Phantom_Hoover: they didn't, thanks 17:00:59 `runls -l wis 17:01:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runls: not found 17:01:02 `run ls -l wis 17:01:04 ls: cannot access wis: No such file or directory 17:01:08 `run ls -l wisdom 17:01:10 total 356 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 12 Dec 9 07:37 ? \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 12 Dec 9 23:42 ☃ \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 68 Dec 9 23:43 🐐 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 141 Dec 14 07:28 ais523 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 13 Dec 9 22:07 atriq \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 21 Dec 9 07:37 augur \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 64 Dec 9 07:37 banach-tarski \ 17:01:20 hm "debian desktop environment", what does that entail? 17:01:22 gnome? 17:01:23 `? banach-tarski 17:01:24 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 17:01:27 Original. 17:02:15 Vorpal: debian default is xfce 17:02:17 or was it lxde 17:02:26 or perhaps lxfce 17:02:30 elliott, eh, sounds fine 17:02:37 http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3281gSpCr1qhp6k5o1_400.jpg 17:02:58 elliott, just need to set up the non-free repo afterwards to get the GPU drivers and what not. 17:03:07 I guess? 17:03:19 sgeo, I presume that image is not actually an SCP reference? 17:03:27 Vorpal: depending on yr card the free drivers might work fine 17:03:37 It's the same statue 17:03:43 that's in the SCP-173 image 17:03:47 elliott, I use opencl, last I checked that didn't work with the free AMD drivers 17:03:47 With its creator 17:03:51 whoah sgeo 17:03:54 tell me more completely obvious facts 17:04:16 I don't know what Phantom_Hoover was asking 17:04:24 sgeo: ! What is it called? 17:05:01 sgeo, whether it was actually taken with SCP in mind. 17:05:14 I wonder if the creator even knows. 17:05:27 I don't like this, the ETA for the download is counting up at about 2 seconds per second... 17:05:44 His brainchild is internet famous 17:06:55 http://www.scaithebathhouse.com/en/exhibitions/2005/04/izumi_kato/ 17:07:58 1 17:08:04 I mean er 17:08:05 ! 17:08:07 elliott: so with Nix, does every version of every package you've ever installed stay installed forever? 17:08:09 sgeo++ 17:09:06 kmc: no it has a (conservative) GC 17:09:23 ok 17:09:28 how does it handle things like $PATH 17:09:38 kmc: you can think of the nix store as literally a pure programming language's memory 17:09:40 if i want to run a python script that starts with "#!/usr/bin/env python", which python does it use 17:09:56 uhh I think they keep a /usr/bin/env around 17:10:01 Max version maybe? 17:10:02 also there's no way for it to track references from random scripts i write that aren't in Nix 17:10:05 you PATH gets set to the location of your active profile which uses symlinks 17:10:14 and the nix-env stuff sets that up 17:10:22 you could do this with a unionfs too but they don't 17:10:29 17:10:02 also there's no way for it to track references from random scripts i write that aren't in Nix 17:10:39 you can specify gc roots explicitly 17:10:47 which happens if you install a package explicitly obvs 17:10:51 i mean 17:11:00 it's not going to remove a package you installed to run a script because it thinks it's unused :P 17:11:07 why not? 17:11:11 magic 17:11:18 oh, you're saying the things i explicitly ask for are considered roots 17:11:24 kmc: because no package manager does that? if your environment references it you want it 17:11:30 ok 17:11:31 because you asked for it 17:11:46 but if you upgrade a package in your environment then you no longer want the old version 17:11:50 or its outdated dependencies etc. 17:11:56 i see 17:12:39 so do you think installing nixos on my new laptop is a bad idea or a terrible idea? 17:12:53 wow, the download ETA displayed in the debian installer is all over the place. They seriously need to add a low pass filter to that thing 17:12:55 excellent idea. do it. 17:13:05 kmc: well it's new so worst case you can just wipe it and install ubuntu right 17:13:09 perfect time to fuck things up 17:13:40 yes 17:14:04 they have a nice install guide 17:14:11 it's pretty manual last time i checked 17:15:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:16:38 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: bbl). 17:17:03 man 17:17:10 brass eye was amazing 17:17:35 I tried NixOS in qemu once, and it is awesome. The issue however is that it isn't very mature, there isn't a lot of software already available compared to the more established distros. 17:18:19 it's ok kmc doesn't use software 17:22:10 -!- marcelino has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:22:24 heh 17:22:34 i'm willing to do some amount of packaging work myself as well 17:22:48 elliott: so what about security of package distribution 17:23:02 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 17:23:03 like, one thing i really like about debian is that they are super anal about everything being signed 17:23:11 and they understand PKI and trust webs and whatever 17:23:22 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 17:23:25 whereas the rest of the world things "curl http://... | sudo sh -" is a great way to distribute software 17:23:53 kmc: I think they might have signed packages? not sure 17:24:20 ok 17:24:21 nix supports user-local installs fwiw 17:24:24 securely 17:24:28 that doesn't mean the packages themselves are secure 17:24:37 but you can limit the damage of a malicious packgae 17:24:40 *package 17:24:50 you might want to ask #nixos 17:24:57 ok 17:24:58 yes 17:25:22 elliott, what if I would install sudo as user-local or something? 17:25:28 well that wouldn't work 17:25:28 i don't believe in user-level separation for vanilla linux desktops 17:25:29 obviously 17:25:35 there are too many ways around it 17:25:52 kmc: well it works in nix, they have a very well-thought out system 17:25:54 elliott, what would it do though? Just remove the suid bit? 17:25:55 you can read the paper about it 17:26:00 I think NixOS operates in this way by default, not sure 17:26:16 kmc: you could turn off the binary support entirely if you want to be paranoid and slow 17:26:34 NixOS is actually a source-based distro whose package manager just happens to have an optimisation to download binaries instead 17:26:48 elliott: the distribution you use doesn't affect the reasons i consider user isolation useless on a typical linux desktop 17:26:59 they also do binary patches which is really cool (and necessary since otherwise library updates would have horrific rippling effects on everything depending on it) 17:27:07 the main reason is just that all the shit i care about is in my account 17:27:14 and they understand PKI and trust webs and whatever <-- wasn't it debian who broke openssl security or something by commenting out some code? 17:27:26 kmc: well the thing is that it's sort of inherent to the nixos system that his happens, it's not something you specifically install or whatever 17:27:36 if an attacker can get my gmail password and all my secret files, why do i care if they also get root 17:27:44 there is a global nix store of pure packages and user-local environments 17:27:51 not saying this gives you the user additional security 17:27:53 just that it's true 17:27:55 yeah 17:28:06 well I think you do need root to add to the store by default because they use source-based hashes not binary-based 17:28:06 anyway 17:28:09 I don't know what you do to flip that over 17:28:22 i'm more concerned about whether someone can MITM my connection and send me bad packages 17:28:29 which debian prevents using crypto 17:28:43 but most people seem to not give a shit about 17:28:50 see also: hackage, pypi, etc 17:28:53 anyway you should read http://hydra.nixos.org/build/3479976/download/1/nixos/manual.html and http://hydra.nixos.org/build/3488542/download/1/manual/, possibly in reverse order 17:29:02 kmc: I don't really think NixOS cares much more than average there yeah 17:29:16 at least the new hipster hegemony serves things from github, which has ssl 17:29:16 since it skews heavily on the research/experimental side of things 17:29:32 kmc, arch linux does signed packages nowdays iirc 17:29:33 so i only have to trust some brogrammers who kind of understand how to configure rails 17:29:46 i'm sure that Red Hat does as well, since they are Serious Business 17:30:21 Vorpal: Yes, it does 17:30:41 Deewiant, does it do split debug symbols properly yet? 17:30:57 Not that I know of (or care). 17:31:05 but i mean "signs packages" is only one part of the story 17:31:17 who has keys, and how is trust in those keys established 17:31:24 well obviously 17:31:37 https://www.archlinux.org/master-keys/ 17:32:08 i got into a long argument with the CentOS people about whether serving a SHA1SUMS file from the same directory as the .iso image over unencrypted HTTP was some powerful security measure 17:32:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:32:42 Heheh 17:33:20 kmc: I think it's more of a measure against corrupted or incomplete downloads anyway 17:33:22 it does help against evil mirrors but not against MITM attackers 17:33:48 FreeFull: that may be the original intent, but the misconception that it's powerful security is widespread 17:34:41 what does grub error 15 mean I wonder... sigh 17:34:56 I should probably start actually using SHA1SUMS files 17:35:03 I don't even bother verifying checksums 17:35:08 shachaf: speaking of XSS holes in CUPS, http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2008/Jan/270 17:35:55 http://localhost.citibank.com:631/jobs/?job_printer_uri=javascript:alert(document.cookie) 17:35:58 yes localhost.citibank.com has address 127.0.0.1 17:36:07 Vorpal: A file grub expects to be there, isn't 17:36:35 FreeFull, grub 1 or 2? 17:36:43 grub 2 has actual error messages 17:36:47 (why are you using grub 1) 17:36:53 well, why is grub 1 still on sda and sdb then 17:36:55 localhost.fbi.gov has address 127.0.0.1 17:36:57 I used to use grub 1 but now use syslinux 17:37:01 I guess the installer didn't install on the right MBR? 17:37:15 kmc: I doubt internal FBI stuff is on fbi.gov at least 17:37:22 Vorpal: Possibly, try booting from a different drive 17:37:26 elliott, I'm not. Or it appears I am because debian installer didn't understand my disk 17:38:01 elliott: why do you doubt that 17:38:26 FreeFull, I did, I tried sda & sdb, sdc is windows, so that would be a waste of time. the ssd at sdd though? hm 17:38:53 kmc: well I know they have fancy ~super secret~ intranet stuff 17:39:07 which I imagine is completely separate from their public web presence 17:39:18 that assumes a degree of competence i am not willing to assume 17:39:35 anyway it might be on a private network and still use fbi.gov hostnames and *.fbi.gov cookies 17:39:39 where is that screenshot of that internal fbi wiki 17:39:44 the military networks are definitely disjoint from the public internet 17:39:49 FreeFull, anyway the installer said it installed on sda 17:39:52 so I hope it did 17:40:06 Vorpal: So you can boot into Windows fine? 17:40:12 FreeFull, hm, yep 17:40:15 hmm i cannot find it 17:40:27 Also it's possible the installer's sda isn't grub's whatever 17:40:30 FreeFull, the ssd says it isn't bootable 17:40:50 FreeFull, well possibly, but sda and sdb have mdraid so that shouldn't matter 17:40:59 or at least it was in the 80s 17:41:06 I'm booting system rescue cd now to figure this out 17:41:26 I blame kmc for suppressing this information 17:41:46 so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); 17:41:46 f* p; 17:41:49 uhhhh 17:41:51 disregard 17:41:57 so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is... StartCom 17:42:08 but also typedef int f(float) 17:42:23 q. does anyone here not use arch 17:42:28 17:41:46 so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); 17:42:31 17:41:46 f* p; 17:42:34 kmc: i thought you were itidus for a second 17:42:37 17:41:49 uhhhh 17:42:38 and just babbling 17:42:41 17:41:51 disregard 17:42:53 twist of the century 17:44:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:44:30 `quote 17:44:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:44:34 364) You just went from "no sexualized ads" to "we have ads for dildos, but they're different for ads for Orangina" X-D 17:51:40 anyone mind explaining to me how BJ Foust exactly works, because I don't seem to get it entirely? 17:52:11 FreeFull, yeah grub2 is not on any disk... How weird 17:52:13 *BF Joust 17:52:23 Arch didn't even have signed packages until this year I think 17:52:42 At least not outside of testing 17:53:45 I can't remember when exactly Pacman 4 was released, but I seem to recall that at least [core] was 100% signed last December. 17:57:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:58:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:58:13 AnotherTest: You write code, and then the code wins. Or loses, as the case may be. 17:59:23 I get that part, I just don't understand when they are executed 17:59:31 (they = the instructions) 17:59:41 each program takes a turn to execute one instruction 17:59:47 until someone wins or it times out 17:59:50 who takes the first turn? 18:00:13 the left program, but I am pretty confident it doesn't matter 18:00:25 (the left program is whichever one you decide is left) 18:02:02 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:02:58 Well, so for the "simple" program on http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/index.php 18:03:11 If I did something like (-)*127[-+] 18:03:30 Then that would sometimes win 18:03:52 because the other program commits suicide 18:03:56 you can see it wins on some tape lengths and not others 18:03:57 if you press run 18:04:36 so it's probably a bad idea to make your flag be between 0 and 1 18:05:08 AnotherTest: that's a shudder/vibrator strategy; see http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#Shudder 18:05:14 because there is a high chance that the enemy will bring your flag to 0 for 2 cycles before you make him commit suicide? 18:05:28 oh there is a strategy page 18:05:41 I should probably try to read that first 18:05:43 and see also http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#Anti-shudder_clear 18:05:48 yeah the strategy page is very in-depth 18:13:36 `ls bin 18:13:41 ​? \ @ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ 1l \ 2l \ addquote \ adjust \ allquotes \ anonlog \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ boolfuck \ c \ calc \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ define \ delquote \ dimensifuck \ etymology \ forget \ forth \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ glass \ glypho \ google \ haskell \ hatesgeo \ hi \ jous 18:13:56 Where's the hill located, again? 18:14:54 !bfjoust 18:14:54 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 18:16:21 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:16:27 Ah 18:23:01 `fuck 18:23:02 No output. 18:23:05 `fuck hello 18:23:07 hello 18:23:17 `cat bin/fuck 18:23:18 ​#!/bin/sh \ printf "%s" "$1" 18:23:46 `ls babies 18:23:47 ls: cannot access babies: No such file or directory 18:25:55 FireFly: I haven't yet considered how to migrate competitive games to HackEgo. 18:26:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 18:26:50 `hi 18:26:51 hi 18:26:57 `hatesgeo 18:26:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:26:59 `hi monqy 18:27:01 hi 18:27:24 `run cat bin/{hi,hatesgeo} 18:27:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:27:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:27:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:27:26 echo hi \ #!/bin/sh \ perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_};" for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' $@ 18:27:27 No output. 18:27:56 `addquote so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); 18:28:00 869) so i guess my root of trust for Arch Linux is...typedef int f(float); 18:28:17 `glass 18:28:20 OK 18:28:28 ...ok? 18:28:32 OK! 18:28:37 `cat bin/glass 18:28:38 ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ interp_file "./interps/glass/glass ./interps/glass/cache" 18:29:11 `glass {M[m ... hmm. I no longer remember glass well enough to just write some X-D 18:29:51 `run ls *interp* 18:29:52 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda 18:30:22 `run echo $PATH 18:30:23 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 18:30:57 this hackegobot merge does not seem to be functioning perfectly :P 18:31:11 btw how will bf joust being on hackego interact with the repo history getting wiped 18:31:39 elliott: (a) hopefully I don't need to wipe repo history any more, (b) that's the problem, innit ;) 18:32:52 Also, I haven't seen any bugs in what actually /is/ merged yet... 18:33:00 `run bf_txtgen "do the binaries in here work?" 18:33:01 bash: bf_txtgen: command not found 18:33:06 er 18:33:08 bf_txtgen isn't merged yet ;) 18:33:18 `run *interp*/bf_txtgen "do the binaries in here work?" 18:33:20 bash: interps/bf_txtgen: is a directory 18:33:23 oh 18:33:32 Gregor: You've seen a bug in what's merged, you just papered over it :P 18:33:42 ? 18:33:44 What bug? 18:34:02 Stuff that does #!/usr/bin/env perl was broken because bin/perl was your user interface to Perl. 18:34:14 Oh ^^´ 18:34:16 * elliott thinks interpreter stuff should just have its own separate bin/ accessed by "!foo" rather than "`foo" 18:34:24 Nurr nurr nurr. 18:34:27 that would also make `ls bin more useful when messing with hackegoy commands and stuff 18:34:53 The whole thing is that I don't want there to BE a distinction between HackEgoy stuff and EgoBoty stuff. I want there to be one bot X-D 18:35:04 My point is that there is inherently a distinction in some ways 18:35:07 They could be separate dirs and both could be in $PATH? 18:35:07 I don't want there to be two bots with a single manifestation. 18:35:22 stuff in bin/ gets seen internally rather than just being UI and there are namespace overlaps 18:35:59 and it's kind of inconvenient to have a bunch of mostly-trivial wrapper scripts inamongst the code that people actually wrote for the bot 18:36:04 and edit regularly 18:36:24 command eval could prefix interps-bin to $PATH or something 18:36:25 Hm 18:36:30 Maybe that wouldn't help.. 18:37:08 The distinction between "`eval foo" and "!foo" is just that the latter is less convenient 18:37:24 though implementing "!foo ..." by mapping it to "`interp foo ..." would make total sense 18:37:25 *former 18:37:30 er yes 18:37:32 Gregor: would that be merged enough? 18:37:41 that way you could totally customise the !foo behaviour, it would just be another entry point to the bot 18:37:54 it is basically just a namespacing/clutter issue to me, shrug 18:38:13 note that I'm not saying the distinction should be "which bot had the command originally" 18:38:20 for instance it makes sense for bfjoust to be `bfjoust IMO 18:38:26 `perl, not so much 18:38:37 `run mkdir ibins; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep '\. lib/interp' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp 18:38:40 (oh one solution to repo-wiping would be for the bfjoust stuff to maintain its own nested hg repo...) 18:38:52 Gregor: I hope you didn't test that first 18:38:59 Testing is for losers. 18:39:15 mkdir: cannot create directory `ibins': File exists \ mv: target `ibin/' is not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/1l' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/2l' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/adjust' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/asm' to `ibin/': Not a directory \ mv: cannot move `bin/axo' to `i 18:39:24 lol 18:39:27 gratzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 18:39:45 `revert 18:39:46 Done. 18:39:47 Gregor: idea: if a command causes a commit but gives no output, HackEgo gives a link to the hg web interface commit 18:39:51 `run mkdir ibin; for i in bin/*; do if [ "`grep '\. lib/interp' $i`" ]; then mv $i ibin/; fi; done; printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp 18:39:51 so you can see if it worked 18:40:09 Oh, that's a nifty idea. 18:40:24 arguably it should give a link even if it does give output, but for stuff like quotes it'd have to be two lines 18:40:26 mkdir: cannot create directory `ibin': File exists \ grep: bin/@: No such file or directory \ grep: bin/c: No such file or directory \ grep: bin/k: No such file or directory 18:40:27 maybe that would be fine 18:40:31 commands that write aren't very common 18:40:46 and you can omit the "No output." line if you are linking a commit on another line 18:41:24 alternatively you could shorten the urls to http://codu.org/e/dfigj or something and then just include it at the end of every line that touches stuff 18:41:33 I guess a shorter cutoff for commands that cause modifications is no big deal 18:41:45 It might be valuable to have some very small, out-of-the-way mention that it DID produce output, without showing a full URL. You can always find the URL easily enouogh. 18:42:14 `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++. 18:42:15 ​/hackenv/bin/interp: 2: Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution 18:42:20 Dern :) 18:42:22 I find it a bit of a pain to find the fshg URL and then refresh a bunch 18:42:27 hence why a link would be handy when messing with stuff IMO 18:42:35 Fair 'nuff. 18:44:08 I second the !foo proposal 18:44:12 `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`cut -d'\'' '\'' -f1 "$1"`\nARG=`cut -d'\'' '\'' -f2- "$2"`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp 18:44:15 No output. 18:44:18 `cat bin/interp 18:44:19 I think Gregor is implementing said proposal right now :P 18:44:19 ​#!/bin/sh \ CMD=`cut -d' ' -f1 "$1"` \ ARG=`cut -d' ' -f2- "$2"` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG" 18:44:24 `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++. 18:44:25 cut: bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.: No such file or directory \ cut: : No such file or directory \ exec: 4: ibin/: Permission denied 18:44:34 Gregor: Also please can has lua/luarocks :-) 18:44:35 Gregor: echo "$1" | cut ... 18:44:36 I suck at this apparently X-D 18:44:41 HTH HAND 18:44:45 cut takes a file. 18:44:45 Oh, heh X_X 18:45:05 `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nCMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d'\'' '\'' -f1`\nARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d'\'' '\'' -f2-`\nexec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"' > bin/interp; chmod 0755 bin/interp 18:45:05 Gregor: I have an idea... why don't you just make "!foo bar baz" pass along two args, "foo" and "bar baz" :P 18:45:08 No output. 18:45:14 Then you can do the splitting in multibot Python rather than HackEgo sh. 18:45:17 hex editing linux kernel modules to support new hardware, like a boss 18:45:21 elliott: I can't use ! yet since EgoBot is still alive. 18:45:24 Mmm 18:45:24 elliott: This is a stopgap. 18:45:27 Gregor: How about `` 18:45:31 I guess interp works for now though 18:45:38 `interp bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++. 18:45:40 Hello 18:45:48 sweet 18:45:53 `ls bin 18:45:54 ​ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ karma \ karma- \ karma+ \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ No \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquot 18:46:08 `pastenquot 18:46:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastenquot: not found 18:46:19 `pastaquote 18:46:20 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastaquote: not found 18:46:24 Gregor: Where's my "..." cutoff 18:46:28 Is this WELCOME's fault 18:46:32 lul 18:46:35 `run ls bin | paste 18:46:38 `maketext 18:46:39 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15092 18:46:40 ls: cannot access maketext: No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/maketext: line 2: maketext/0: No such file or directory \ 0 18:46:53 `run maketext 18:46:55 ls: cannot access maketext: No such file or directory \ /hackenv/bin/maketext: line 2: maketext/0: No such file or directory \ 0 18:46:57 Hmm, it would be nice to have something that automatically does | paste 18:47:01 `run printf '#!/bin/sh\nexec quote pasta' > bin/pastaquote; chmod 0755 bin/pastaquote 18:47:04 No output. 18:47:08 `pastaquote 18:47:09 No output. 18:47:20 NOW WE JUST NEED SOME QUOTES ON PASTA 18:47:32 `quote pasta 18:47:33 No output. 18:47:36 We can use ¡foo as a stand-in :o) 18:47:37 Ketchup on pasta is delicious. 18:47:47 sgeo 18:47:58 GreyKnight: How big is luarocks? Can you just install it yourself? X-D 18:48:30 `cat ibin/bf 18:48:31 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:48:34 Cool 18:48:43 coool 18:48:51 Hm, maybe with the right curl invocation I could! It is not that large 18:48:55 O_O 18:49:01 Well THAT should never happen 18:49:17 GreyKnight: Can't use curl directly, but you can use `fetch . 18:49:28 Hm okay 18:49:51 fungot: Are you jealous of how everyone else's bot is getting all kinds of attention while you last got a code-change years ago? 18:49:52 fizzie: i'm not a racist i just i always seem to raise it around the holidays like christmas and mn it 18:50:06 I will do it when I am not dog-tired as currently, that condition tends to interact badly with installing anything 18:50:18 fizzie: I think now would be a good time to change fungot. 18:50:19 elliott: i don't remember getting taught in school that they go to sleep 18:50:31 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:50:32 fizzie: In anticipation for its moving to Deewiant's fancy new interpreter??? 18:50:32 fizzie, what can we add to fungot? He is perfect in every way 18:50:32 GreyKnight: ( ( like what)) 18:50:36 fizzie: You have to move it to Shiro 2 also 18:50:41 `cat ibin/bf 18:50:42 ​#!/bin/sh \ . lib/interp \ \ # Get the bitwidth from the command \ BW=`echo "$CMD" | sed 's/bf//'` \ if [ "$BW" = "" ] ; then BW=8 ; fi \ \ interp_file ./interps/egobf/src/egobfi$BW 18:50:47 Case in point 18:51:11 Gregor: Hypothesis: the vast majority of ibin/ is redundant to interps/ and `interp could handle it itself. 18:51:25 `run cd ibin; more * | paste 18:51:28 FreeFull, yay, I now got grub 2, I get a rescue prompt now 18:51:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16839 18:51:38 (I BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW MORE COULD DO THAT) 18:51:39 elliott: No, definitely not. They all have different standards for how to take input. File, stdin, need flags, etc etc. 18:51:41 GreyKnight: There are bugs in the babbling, I think. It's not implementing the algo-rhythm correctly. I think. 18:51:52 elliott: interp is just raw interpreters, ibin/ is "make this interpreter take some damned code" 18:51:52 Gregor: Congrats on accidentally moving ? and @. 18:51:58 `run mv ibin/"?" bin 18:52:01 `run mv ibin/"@" bin 18:52:02 No output. 18:52:04 Um, oops :) 18:52:05 No output. 18:52:12 Gregor: Nice, there is an ibin/sh 18:52:17 elliott: Stop complaining when it's SO EASY TO FIX. 18:52:18 That was on the path and nobody even noticed 18:52:20 X-D 18:52:27 Vorpal: Did you have to install it manually 18:52:46 Gregor: Anyway what I mean is that the vast majority of these just seem to be interp_file, and `interp could handle that itself. 18:52:51 FreeFull, yes, from a gentoo-based live cd. Oh the irony 18:53:00 `quote 18:53:02 816) and all this time I thought we were talking about postmodern analysis of junk mail delivery methods and simulations of elephant breeding patterns 18:53:06 Well, except that the executables in interps/ have different names, but that seems fixable. 18:53:07 FreeFull, still, it can't find anything 18:53:17 Vorpal: Gentoo live cds are the way to install any other distro manually 18:53:30 -!- Bike has joined. 18:53:35 Oh hey, you could just shorten these by making lib/interp a valid #! interpreter 18:53:38 Maybe I should do that 18:53:38 `cat lib/interp 18:53:40 FreeFull, well, system rescue cd is an extremely good live cd 18:53:40 ​#!/bin/sh \ \ export I_CMD="$0" \ export I_ARG="$1" \ export ARG_FILE="/tmp/input.$$" \ \ get_arg() { \ #if expr "$I_ARG" : "http://" > /dev/null \ #then \ # wget $WGET_OPTIONS "$I_ARG" -O "$ARG_FILE" \ #else \ printf '%s' "$I_ARG" > "$ARG_FILE" \ #fi \ } \ \ clean_arg() { \ rm -f "$ARG_FILE" \ } \ \ interp 18:53:46 `url lib/interp 18:53:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/lib/interp 18:53:54 FreeFull, and gentoo-based 18:54:02 Gregor: I see this doesn't use the HTTP proxy 18:55:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:55:21 How does this sound for reducing the clutteriness of ibin/: Rather than `interp running the file in ibin directly, make `interp start sh and source lib/interp and then source ibin/$foo. Then they'd just be one-liners. I have no idea why this is better but it feels better. 18:55:25 FreeFull, you know what, grub 1 was so much easier to get working... 18:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:55:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:55:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:55:42 GRUB 2 is trivial to get working if you don't have a supercomplicated LVM RAID setup. 18:55:54 Vorpal: SYSLINUX is pretty easy 18:57:05 elliott, not super complicated. For /boot it is just plain mdraid 18:57:22 elliott, the issue is that linux and grub doesn't agree on which device is sda, sdb and so on 18:57:50 I believe that at least 18:57:59 Vorpal: grub doesn't even use "sda". 18:58:12 Partitions are numbered from 1 in grub2, if that's what you mean. 18:58:25 elliott, exactly, but it maps hd1 to sda and so on when doing grub-install from linux 18:58:32 and that mapping is off 18:58:39 and figuring out the correct mapping is a pain 18:58:47 `java 18:58:50 Usage: java [-options] class [args...] \ (to execute a class) \ or java [-options] -jar jarfile [args...] \ (to execute a jar file) \ where options include: \ -d32 use a 32-bit data model if available \ -d64 use a 64-bit data model if available \ -server to select the "server" VM \ The d 18:59:12 `interp c printf("abc"); 18:59:21 !c printf("abcd"); 18:59:27 abcd 18:59:29 Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: for 18:59:36 Gregor: Good merge 18:59:46 ah, I can get a device map with ls 19:00:07 if I write it down I can compare the partition layout to figure out which device is which 19:00:09 `cat ibin/k 19:00:10 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo '!"#$%^&* 0123456789' 19:00:13 fork ALL the processes 19:00:16 `ls interps/k 19:00:17 ls: cannot access interps/k: No such file or directory 19:00:20 i don't get it 19:01:04 lol 19:01:19 `ls interps 19:01:21 1l \ 2l \ adjust \ axo \ befunge \ bfjoust \ bf_txtgen \ boof \ build.sh \ cfunge \ c-intercal \ clc-intercal \ dimensifuck \ egobch \ egobf \ fukyorbrane \ gcccomp \ gforth_quit \ ghc \ glass \ glypho \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ Makefile \ malbolge \ pbrain \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda 19:01:28 `interp c printf("Giving Gregor the benefit of the doubt by trying again"); 19:01:45 cat: Gregor: No such file or directory \ Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily una 19:01:56 `cat interps/gcccomp 19:01:57 cat: interps/gcccomp: Is a directory 19:01:58 `cat interps/gcccomp/gcccomp 19:02:00 ​#!/bin/bash \ LANG="$1" \ \ case "$LANG" in \ c) \ HEAD='#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nint main(int argc, char **argv) {' \ TAIL='; return 0; }' \ EXT='c' \ GCC='gcc' \ FLAGS='-std=gnu99' \ ;; \ \ c++) \ HEAD 19:02:12 Oy vey X-D 19:02:14 Shouldn't that $1 be $0 19:02:25 :::::::::::::: 19:02:25 c 19:02:26 :::::::::::::: 19:02:26 #!/bin/sh 19:02:26 . lib/interp 19:02:27 interp_file "./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp $1" 19:02:30 I don't get how this could possibly work 19:04:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:08:48 so yeah the device map was definitely off 19:10:07 elliott, wow, debian gave me 800x600 on a 1680x1050 monitor 19:10:19 I guess I need catalyst 19:10:31 also gnome 3? 19:11:02 why do you need gnome 3 19:11:07 elliott, I don't 19:11:12 oh it installed it? 19:11:15 did you install stable or something 19:11:17 I'm just confused by debian testing gave me gnome 3 19:11:20 elliott, testing 19:11:24 are you sure it's testing 19:11:26 where did you get the install media from 19:11:31 elliott, unetbootin 19:11:37 netinstall 19:11:40 where did unetbootin get the install media from 19:11:41 it said testing 19:12:03 elliott, the magic drop down box, with the option marked "netinstall_testing x86-64" 19:12:12 anyway let me check lsb_release 19:12:27 elliott, wheezy 19:12:32 whichever one that is 19:13:07 testing 19:16:03 `:( : | : & );: 19:16:04 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: :(: not found 19:16:17 `bash -e ':( : | : & );:' 19:16:18 bash: - : invalid option 19:16:19 you want run 19:16:26 `run :( : | : & );: 19:16:27 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( : | : & );:' 19:16:30 hm 19:16:33 `run ls 19:16:35 bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 19:16:38 `bash -c ':( : | : & );:' 19:16:40 `run ls bin 19:16:40 bash: - : invalid option \ Usage:bash [GNU long option] [option] ... \ bash [GNU long option] [option] script-file ... \ GNU long options: \ --debug \ --debugger \ --dump-po-strings \ --dump-strings \ --help \ --init-file \ --login \ --noediting \ --noprofile \ --norc \ --posix \ --protected \ --rcfile \ --restricted \ --verbose \ 19:16:42 ​? \ @ \ ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ \ addquote \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ interp \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ karma \ karma- \ karma+ \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ No \ pastaquote \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ p 19:16:51 `run :( : | : & ); : 19:16:52 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( : | : & ); :' 19:16:54 `run :( echo test );: 19:16:54 You want to do the command right. 19:16:55 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `echo' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:( echo test );:' 19:17:00 `run :{:|:&};: 19:17:01 -!- MDude has joined. 19:17:01 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `}' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:{:|:&};:' 19:17:04 Yeah, wrong syntax 19:17:04 Oh 19:17:07 try not fucking up 19:17:11 `run :(){ echo test };: 19:17:13 bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 19:17:23 My memory sucks 19:17:24 Dahell X-D 19:17:26 `run a(){ echo test };a 19:17:28 bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 19:17:34 Gregor, okay this /IS/ broken 19:18:01 `run a(){ echo test; };a 19:18:03 test 19:18:06 no 19:18:07 it isn't 19:18:10 X-D 19:18:12 /bin/sh: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 19:18:15 `run :(){:|:&};: 19:18:17 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&};:' 19:18:23 :P 19:18:25 Ohwell, I'm lazy. 19:18:26 syntax fail 19:18:27 Damn, beat me to it 19:18:27 Needs a space 19:18:36 `run :(){:|:&}; : 19:18:38 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&}; :' 19:18:40 `run :(){:|:&} : 19:18:41 (Modulo a formatting fail) 19:18:42 `run :(){ :|:&};: 19:18:42 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){:|:&} :' 19:18:44 No output. 19:18:47 Why are these forkbombs so difficult! 19:18:55 {SPACE: 19:18:56 `run :(){ : | : & } ; : 19:18:58 No output. 19:19:07 `run :(){ :|:&};: 19:19:09 No output. 19:19:11 yeah 19:20:34 "Note that unlike the metacharacters ( and ), { and } are reserved words and must occur where a reserved word is permitted to be recognized. Since they do not cause a word break, they must be separated from list by whitespace or another shell metacharacter." 19:20:47 `run dd if=/dev/zero of=aaaa 19:20:55 File size limit exceeded 19:20:59 :D 19:21:09 fizzie: this seems pretty silly of course 19:21:25 But there I go with my earth logic again 19:21:41 GreyKnight: There was something equally silly related to whether a thing is on one line or not, too. 19:22:46 TODO: reinvent shell syntax 19:23:18 It's probably a rererereinvention at this point. 19:23:29 ...okay, it's a sign, I should try scheme shell 19:23:45 Sexprs would be a big improvement 19:27:26 `ls 19:27:27 aaaa \ bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ foo \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o 19:27:30 `rm aaaa 19:27:33 No output. 19:29:53 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:52:02 -!- sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:52:29 -!- sgeo has joined. 19:58:41 -!- GreyKnight has joined. 20:00:00 `quote 20:00:02 675) I have a program to tell you how far away Jupiter is. It is 4.33 units far. 20:00:03 `quote 20:00:04 `quote 20:00:05 648) i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" 20:00:06 `quote 20:00:08 `quote 20:00:09 306) 3 = 7/2 20:00:09 33) I guess when you're immortal, mapping your fonts isn't necessary 20:00:10 793) You can't quote me. 20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 20:00:53 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:01:18 either 648 or 793 I guess 20:01:27 the others are good 20:04:07 > return Nothing 20:04:08 648 and 793 are bad but i think some people (elliott??) like 648 20:04:09 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 (Data.Maybe.Maybe a0))) 20:04:09 arising from ... 20:04:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:04:22 > return $ Just 3 20:04:24 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m0 (Data.Maybe.Maybe a0))) 20:04:24 arising from ... 20:04:31 FreeFull: what are you trying to do 20:04:35 Huh 20:04:41 Wait, nevermind 20:04:49 > return 3 :: Maybe Integer 20:04:51 Just 3 20:05:00 > Nothing :: Maybe Integer 20:05:02 Nothing 20:05:37 That's what I was trying to do 20:05:48 aha 20:06:21 > return :: Maybe Integer 20:06:23 Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe 20:06:23 ... 20:06:30 is there a Haskell-like shell, I wonder? 20:06:35 shachaf: do you know about buzz filtering as an alternative to /ignore? 20:06:39 hashell 20:07:04 oh yep that turned up actual results. thank god for uncreativity and portmanteaus 20:07:10 replaces the text someone sends with "Bz bzzzz, bzz bzzz" and such 20:07:15 heh 20:07:20 don't know if IRC clients implement this but it is popular on MIT Zephyr 20:07:27 kmc, that sounds funny for the first 10 minutes 20:07:29 hasnail 20:07:36 * GreyKnight high-fives Bike ,o/ 20:07:38 I made an irssi ignore script that blacks out ignored text 20:07:41 but doesn't remove it 20:07:47 so I can hilight it if I want to read it 20:07:53 how do you resist highlighting it 20:07:55 it makes it easier to follow conversations where one person is ignored 20:08:03 because otherwise you don't see where they posted things so it gets confusing 20:08:07 or like who someone is responding to 20:08:18 Fiora: I like this approach 20:08:22 because hilighting things in putty is annoying >_>;; 20:08:26 I think I've played with Gale once 20:08:28 Fiora: that's a clever solution 20:09:00 Using Yammer, which seems to have been down since forever 20:09:01 http://privatepaste.com/9de8939130 20:09:01 :( 20:09:24 it's kind of icky because I have no idea how to write perl 20:09:56 i don't think it's possible to write perl that isn't at least somewhat icky, i think you're good 20:10:06 sgeo: wow, Gale is even more obscure than Zephyr 20:11:44 I found it via Wikipedia 20:11:51 Fiora: that is some of the clearest Perl I've seen in a while TBH :-P 20:11:53 iirc 20:12:07 GreyKnight: I copied it from another script, the only thing I changed was the theme_register line 20:12:13 kmc: Nope. 20:12:14 afaik Gale is only used by current and former sysadmins for the student computing group at Caltech 20:12:19 so, yeah, I guess you *do* have no idea how to write perl properly :o) 20:12:26 Pfff XD 20:12:26 oh, okay 20:12:38 shachaf: did you see that CUPS XSS thing? 20:12:40 Seems strictly worse than /ignore, except that you don't get confused. 20:12:48 perl being line noise jokes, teehee 20:12:55 so, strictly better 20:12:59 kmc: Yep. 20:13:07 Gregor, suppose someone is flooding the channel 20:13:07 I should report my bugs. 20:13:11 it's in that book as well 20:13:20 The way to fix that would probably be to coalesce multiple bzz lines into one 20:13:23 And order that book, I guess. 20:13:31 sgeo: or use a temporary /ignore then 20:13:35 or just count on ops kicking flooders 20:13:41 the main reason I ignore is because of people who frustrate me or are creepy or something 20:13:45 not because of like, spambots 20:13:52 since ops usually take care of those 20:14:02 Bike: Hashell "works only with old GHCs" :-/ 20:14:08 and/or services I guess. though I don't know if esper does auto-ban for flood 20:14:13 no! the horror 20:14:35 Upload date: Sun Jan 18 04:12:50 UTC 2009 20:15:14 Fiora: freenode boots you off the network if you send lines too fast, but there is no ban that I know of 20:15:21 ah, so just a kick 20:15:49 the freenode spammers i've seen usually hit enough channels to wake up an oper and get themselves k-lined 20:16:00 well, off the whole network rather than just off the channel 20:16:33 I remember there was a spam thing where people spammed links that had javascript in the background that enlisted their own computer as a bot to connect to irc and spam more links 20:16:42 If you ever see me quitting with "Excess Flood" it's because my connection failed hard enough that several of my messages got backlogged and sent all at the same time :-/ 20:17:30 (the server sees them arrive with no delay between messages and assumes I'm Up To No Good) 20:17:42 Fiora: you mean the thing kmc was talking about like, yesterday 20:18:01 wait, really 20:18:02 I missed it 20:18:33 some webpage that sent a specially crafted POST to freenode, that looked like connecting to irc + spamming the link 20:18:34 great minds think alike 20:18:49 freenode now interprets "POST" to mean "QUIT" for this reason :-D 20:18:54 ... XD 20:19:03 that's a solution 20:19:06 points for creativity 20:19:07 and other HTTP verbs 20:19:18 in fact XMLHttpRequest lets you use almost arbitrary verbs 20:19:27 kmc: I don't think you can do other HTTP verbs than GET and POST cross-domain, can you? 20:19:33 Without support from the other server, anyway. 20:19:37 right 20:19:53 does XHR even let you do cross-domain GET/POST? 20:19:59 (without the CORS dance?) 20:20:04 -!- popl has joined. 20:20:06 I meant with the CORS thing. 20:20:18 CORS? 20:20:23 Is this channel for esoteric programming languages? 20:20:26 Once I wrote a somewhat complicated system to do cross-domain communication over