00:00:16 That's not a bad first approximation, though there are .s in many more places than just ends of sentences. 00:00:36 fungot: Do you remember how this style was made? 00:00:36 fizzie: 110 if n 0 is displayed normally by the kernal make heavy use of these locations must be selected through this ram for this bit position 00:00:46 so you have used a more advanced approach? 00:01:01 I don't remember what I've used. 00:01:52 The "word consisting of a single uppercase letter immediately before the . means it's not a sentence-ending ." can be a useful heuristic too. 00:02:12 the most advanced approach gave him a memory wipe afterwards. 00:02:37 * hagb4rd giggles 00:02:39 Gets "J. Doe" style names right; breaks on poetic sentences that, say, end in I. 00:03:02 Or end in the name of the king Fungot I. 00:03:28 fungot 00:03:28 shachaf: if you wish to read the changing output of sid or processed through the kernal 00:03:41 ^style 00:03:41 Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 00:03:44 `quote end to all 00:03:46 449) fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. 00:03:58 hi fungot 00:03:58 shachaf: lfn-the logical file to be eaten, then type this: lx 0 ( medium gray) 152 ( 98) to zero amplitude after the switch. since this table is to establish the makeup of logical lines, or errors that have occurred during the i/ o 00:06:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds). 00:07:09 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:10:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:56:25 Factor screws up dynamic scoping. 00:57:06 oh? 00:57:16 is the joke that dynamic scoping is a screw up 00:58:34 No 00:58:49 SYMBOL: foo 00:58:54 SYMBOL: bar 00:59:32 5 bar [ 3 foo set ] with-variable 00:59:36 Behaves differently fro 00:59:38 *from 00:59:41 3 foo set 01:00:34 is the real question why you'd want to do that 01:00:39 No 01:00:50 Erm, yes, why would you want to behave differently 01:00:56 It can break stuff 01:00:56 more of a mystery than a question i guess :-0 01:01:23 what sort of stuff 01:01:37 Suppose you write a word that takes in a quotation 01:02:02 Unbeknownst to the quotation, you want to use dynamic scoping for a specific variable, to pass in some stuff to another word you write 01:02:15 If you use this dynamic scoping stuff, it might not remain unbeknownst 01:02:57 good thing i don't want to use dynamic scoping 01:03:01 It might instead be rebeknownst. 01:03:25 so, the quality of a symbol being dynamically scoped is itself dynamically scoped? 01:04:40 It's more that all variables are forced in a new dynamic scope when you use with-scope. It's like, in a Lisp, let'ing all special variables to their current value every time you let one 01:05:58 dynamic scoping sure is excitingn. 01:06:43 I sometimes think it's more essential in Factor than it is in other languages 01:07:35 actually yeah why does a stack language even have scope 01:08:43 Because it can be useful sometimes? 01:08:56 Well, there's no lexical scoping unless you use it 01:09:14 (use lexical scoping, I mean) 01:09:49 (Lexical scoping is provided as a library. As is dynamic scoping) 01:16:55 -!- myndzi has quit (Quit: .). 01:39:25 I still wish I knew what kind of idiot calls a programming language "Factor" in the age of search engines 01:40:14 You. 01:40:31 * sgeo is not Slava Pestov. 01:41:10 Well, I think it is not idiotic I think it is OK. It is you who are over reliance on search engines. 01:49:13 quiet zzo38 01:49:21 avoid success at all costs hurff durff 01:49:31 is sgeo going on about factor again 01:49:45 is kmc bringing up a pet peeve 01:49:56 Phantom_Hoover: #esoteric exists only in your mind 01:50:02 is god in his heaven and is all right with the world 01:50:13 we are archetypes you have constructed to externalize parts of your own personality 01:50:14 sgeo: You could say that about most any name. 01:50:23 this explains so much 01:50:28 Except Web 2.0y names like "Clojure". 01:50:39 or 'shachaf' 01:50:48 the genius movement of web 2.0y 01:50:54 finally we have searchable names? 01:51:08 monqy: symmetric lenses are "pretty cool huh" 01:51:14 hi shachaf 01:51:21 shachaf, apparently your name means 'seagull'? 01:51:28 Phantom_Hoover: Apparently it does! 01:51:29 guess who didn't follow your advice not to learn lens!!!!!!! 01:51:32 shachaf, does "COBOL" have any other meaning? 01:51:39 my condolensations 01:51:43 monqy: oh no you learned lens???????? 01:51:48 only "sort of" 01:51:52 sgeo, it's that corporation in inception 01:51:58 monqy: i saw your ip address getting pr.hs 01:52:02 i don't have any experience with lens but i "get it" 01:52:08 "so i kind of knew already" 01:52:16 "oops" 01:52:41 monqy: did you learn ordinary lenses or twanvl lenses or symmetric lenses 01:52:43 according to the SGEOBE Index, Clojure is still 140% more popular than Factor 01:53:01 what does that stand for 01:53:04 monqy: btw puzzle!! 01:53:05 class Weird g where foo :: (b -> t) -> ((a -> b) -> s -> t) -> (g a -> b) -> g s -> t 01:53:08 instance Weird Identity where foo mk mp f = mp (f . Identity) . runIdentity 01:53:09 but Factor's popularity has surged in recent days 01:53:10 what should Weird be?? 01:53:13 instance Weird Proxy where foo mk mp f = mk . f . coerce 01:53:29 i learned the twanvl style "lens families" 01:53:34 already knew ordinary lenses ages ago 01:53:38 monqy: "excellent choice sir" 01:53:51 but have you considered expanding your knowledge to "symmetric lenses" 01:53:59 (g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t 01:54:10 what about colenses 01:54:14 i hear it's useful to use 4 functors instead of just 2!!!! 01:54:21 Phantom_Hoover: colenses are a special kind of symmetric lenses 01:54:29 monqy: if by useful you mean "the devil" 01:54:36 :0 01:54:41 only crazy people use 4 functors 01:55:26 monqy: Anyway, I'm trying to work out what class I need to be isomorphic to ((a -> b) -> s -> t, b -> t) 01:55:48 It seems like Functor g => (g a -> b) -> g s -> t is pretty close. 01:55:54 But Functor isn't strong enough, I think? 01:56:35 I can't figure it out. :-( 01:56:37 I bet it exists. 01:57:33 elliott says that (Functor g => (g a -> b) -> g s -> t) ~ ((s -> a) -> b) -> t 01:58:03 is that so :0 01:58:15 monqy: what does that type even mean 01:58:31 ((s -> a) -> b) -> t 01:58:38 yes that type 01:58:40 what does it mean 02:00:01 it'd help if i could remember what s a b t mean......i dont have enough experience to have memorized them and im sad that the type signatures for these new lenses arent cool enough to express the relationships between them!! 02:00:34 monqy: uh we could express the relationships between them if haskell was cool enough to have type lambdas 02:00:44 even if they were just synonyms not "real lambdas" 02:00:52 "guess what haskell doesn't have" 02:01:00 "not cool enough to have" 02:01:09 monqy: btw a and b are the same as in traverse 02:01:16 i have a radical suggestion: identifiers longer than one character 02:01:17 traverse :: (a -> f b) -> [a] -> f [b] 02:01:26 kmc: I tried. edwardk vetoed it. 02:01:46 monqy: s stands for "structure" or "source" or "state" 02:01:52 t stands for "the letter after s" 02:01:55 (or "target") 02:01:59 :( 02:02:12 kmc: s t a b isn't that bad. 02:02:14 i personally would have used a' instead of b.....and s' instead of t...........that makes it a bit clearer.......................... 02:02:31 fa fb a b 02:02:31 (a -> a') -> s -> s'????? 02:02:32 this is the _real_ reason unicode support is important 02:02:34 what are you crazy 02:02:38 yes 02:02:40 can't make do with only 26 letters 02:02:40 s and § 02:02:48 t and ⊤ 02:02:49 s -> ß 02:02:51 fa and fb are cool too 02:03:01 fi -> fa -> fo -> fum 02:03:06 monqy: but what about (Char -> Char) -> Text -> Text 02:03:13 (thumbs up) 02:03:23 monqy: what about 02:03:52 I’d be fine with “fa”, “fb” mnemonics even with things like Text. 02:03:53 type Lens i o = forall f a b. (i a -> f (i b)) -> o a -> f (o b) 02:04:07 monqy: "btw that totally works in haskell with LiberalTypeSynonyms" 02:04:16 "because theyd get expanded at use site" 02:04:35 "if haskell had anonymous type synonyms this would work ''everywhere''" 02:05:06 (a -> 𝖺) -> s -> 𝗌 02:05:26 ion: thanks for using non-BMP codepoints 02:05:32 Stupid screen. :-( 02:06:03 shachaf: putStrLn "(a -> \120250) -> s -> \120268" 02:06:20 MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF SMALL LATIN LETTER A 02:06:23 Or something. 02:06:27 I already looked it up. 02:06:28 sigh 02:07:14 monqy: have you considered using four functors......PLUS a functor transformer......... 02:07:25 ive never considered it but elliott sure did 02:07:30 i mean 02:07:32 using four functors 02:07:38 not sure if elliott's considered the transformers 02:07:42 elliott is using a functor transformer too 02:07:46 : ) 02:07:58 also elliott considered making jokes about five functors 02:08:00 we all did 02:08:15 is he using five functors yet 02:08:19 "i dont care if you have to cram the fifth functor in there perpendicular to the other four" 02:08:58 monqy: btw maybe you need four functor transformers 02:09:04 :0 02:09:11 (g a -> f b) -> i s -> h t 02:09:18 elliott said 4 functors would be nice for indexed types!!!or something like that....is this true 02:09:34 (t1 g a -> t2 f b) -> tt3 i s -> t4 h t 02:09:43 "sorry edwardk i ran out of letters" 02:09:48 also s/tt/t/ 02:09:56 monqy: do you mean indexed lenses.......... 02:10:08 maybe 02:10:13 all i remember is "indexed" 02:10:20 indexedfoo: 02:10:27 (i -> a -> f b) -> s -> f t 02:10:46 you would think you can pick g = (i,) 02:11:00 but then you get ((i,a) -> f b) -> (i,s) -> f t 02:11:04 "which makes no sense??" 02:11:09 so you need three functors 02:11:13 and if three why not four 02:11:22 why not......... 02:11:51 or eight............ 02:11:58 or even infinity functors 02:12:08 infinity functors is going too far 02:12:24 monqy: don't worry 02:12:30 countable infinity functors 02:12:38 just א0 02:13:20 that's aleph0 too many 02:14:04 monqy: ok just two functors 02:14:24 type Iso s t a b = (Functor f, Functor g) => (g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t 02:14:31 "isn't that a beautiful type" 02:14:51 guys 02:14:53 what about 02:14:56 no functors at all 02:15:07 Phantom_Hoover...... 02:15:11 you need at least one functor................. 02:15:16 you need to learn about the true spirit of lenses 02:15:18 but do yo 02:15:21 u 02:15:37 Phantom_Hoover: um yes 02:15:48 Phantom_Hoover: but that functor can be Identity if you like 02:16:00 you're just a shill for Big Cata 02:16:01 what if i want it to be Const r 02:16:12 can it be Const r 02:16:53 monqy: omg what about 02:17:06 (Proxy a -> Const r b) -> Proxy s -> Const r t 02:24:31 did you know water has about 40 unexplained anomalies? it's the source of all life.. and maybe more. interesting documentation -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SppiDB-hmzY 02:27:53 hagb4rd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY7XH2ulTEU 02:28:32 kmc what does this even have to do with water, it's about calcium 02:28:34 it was a tragedy when all the look around you videos got taken down 02:28:47 Bike, calcium is a crucial component of water 02:29:06 it's been a while since my o-levels but i distinctly remember water being made of ghosts? 02:29:23 do you do o-levels in luxembourg 02:29:56 well, i lived at the luxembourgish military base in cornwall when i was a teen 02:30:03 bike: maybe it really is 02:30:16 bike i believe you may be `shitting me' 02:30:17 indeed hagbard 02:30:32 Phantom_Hoover: “shitting” “me” 02:31:09 i was tipped off to your clever deception by the fact that nobody would want to have a base in cornwall 02:31:49 well it's the only place the queen would allow it 02:31:58 i mean, luxembourg, not exactly a world military power 02:32:20 but treaties have to be respected, even if they were signed in the 1300s by specially trained goats. 02:32:35 nice try, but it would still be a diplomatic disaster if you forced anyone to be in cornwall 02:33:17 yeah, i think we seceded once or twice 02:33:42 it didn't really succeed because nobody believed we were there anyway, for the reasons you bring up 02:33:50 being a luxembourgish military brat is a sad lifestyle :( 02:34:16 still, at least the other kids couldn't make fun of you for your nationality 02:35:03 they tried to call me names but they couldn't think of any good ones 02:35:12 eventually they settled on "luxxy" but i don't think their hearts were in it. 02:35:47 and the only stereotypes of luxxys is that they're all really just corporations dodging tax 02:35:54 seems like your muse returns finally 02:36:02 whose muse 02:36:04 who's the muse 02:36:22 bikes muse ..sorry hoover 02:36:38 well, uh. i mean, i may have been in england slightly for tax reasons. a little. 02:36:49 whoah, underlining?? 02:37:07 it's a lux special 02:37:50 still more of a real country than liechtenstein 02:38:13 which was a scheme by some austrians to get extra votes in the holy roman imperial reichstag 02:38:27 at least liechtenstein has that whole last place to give women the vote thing 02:38:38 that's a whole two stereotypes 02:38:41 it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will 02:38:52 Phantom_Hoover: last place in the EU, or what? 02:39:06 `addquote it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will 02:39:08 i thought the last place was like, switzerland... oh right they're not in the EU 02:39:11 876) it's kind of the multiocular O of countries, if you will 02:39:11 last place in the eu 02:39:21 or maybe in europe in general 02:39:27 On 1 July 1984, Liechtenstein became the last country in Europe to grant women the right to vote. The referendum on women's suffrage, in which only men were allowed to participate, passed with 51.3% in favor.[20] 02:39:36 i guess it's because who the fuck cares if they have the vote in liechtenstein 02:39:52 switzerland did not have universal women's suffrage at the canton level until 1990 02:39:56 yeah hang on, i thought liechtenstein was a monarchy 02:40:07 constitutional monarchy 02:40:14 boring 02:40:28 san marino was doing that before it was cool and look where they are now! 02:40:46 rich as fuck? 02:41:07 damn straight 02:42:56 what about sealand 02:43:28 the EU used to be about just coal and steel 02:43:47 Phantom_Hoover: what about it 02:44:04 everything 02:44:13 can't take long to go over it all 02:44:24 place had what, one revolution? 02:44:34 and even that didn't last 02:46:52 what about bir tawil 02:47:22 camels 02:47:54 what about #esoteric 02:48:25 the closest thing we've had to a revolution was when lament got pissed 02:48:55 I've been in an IRC channel that had a revolution 02:49:08 Everyone got pissed at the channel owner, and fled to a different network 02:50:49 was it #clojure 02:51:01 was it #jesus 02:51:05 if it was a revolution they would have taken over the channel, not move to another 02:51:26 i agree with that c00kiemon5ter 02:54:24 It was #MSPA previously on Stardock now on SwiftIRC 02:54:24 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:08 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 02:57:12 Wow, I just realised exactly how arbitrary the assignment of north/south was. 02:57:46 ? 02:58:11 It's not arbitrary! 02:58:18 "north" is obviously "the cooler word" 02:58:25 i 02:58:34 will defer to shachaf on this 02:58:45 You can know where is north, where is east, etc, by the direction of spinning, isn't it? 02:58:50 haha 02:58:50 well i was just going to say yeah magnets 02:59:06 'north' actually derives from the word for 'down' 02:59:31 ooh, i should say that next time the topic of lower egypt comes up. 02:59:42 -!- augur has joined. 02:59:45 i mean the way north is considered the fundamental direction 03:00:09 It's not that arbitrary. Magnetic compasses, navigation by polaris, etc. 03:00:10 90% of humans are in the northern hemisphere. 03:00:18 Therefore north is better. 03:00:19 though a lot of the latter is due to the fact europeans live in the north. 03:00:39 shachaf, counterpoint: it's grim up north 03:00:47 shachaf: And how do you believe humans is better than the rest of the multiverse? 03:00:51 it's pretty grim in the south too! 03:00:59 zzo38: Um, I'm human. 03:01:04 "that should be enough" 03:01:11 shachaf: Yes, but I do not think that should be enough. 03:01:22 it's weird hanging around people for whom the northernmost point in the world is nottingham 03:01:24 You are Rosencrantz and Guildenstern! 03:01:26 That is enough. 03:02:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:00 But I thought the north/south/east/west is according to the rotation of a sphere? 03:03:15 Not historically. 03:03:43 If you want to look at the terms and their usage you'd have to go to the people who actually needed to give a damn, i.e., cartographers and ship navigators. 03:03:48 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:03:59 Perhaps, but now we can change it, just as we can do with the other units of measurement. 03:04:05 originally it was the movement of the sun along the sky. 03:04:39 well, phantom_hoover was talking about "how arbitrary [it] was" 03:04:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:05:00 so, more relevant to blather about shipping than to blather about lojban 03:05:34 i can imagine that north comes from down, as long as there is no real up and down.. 03:05:52 but there is east and west 03:05:53 Down is the direction of the gravitational force. 03:06:06 so up is down too 03:06:07 what is the true nature of the west 03:06:24 the sun goes down there 03:06:27 west is where the sun sets 03:06:34 thank you for your explanation, compatriots 03:06:56 you're welcome 03:08:48 Zero longitude is also arbitrary but they chose one point, and now according to astronomy it is even if the continents move, according to rotation of the Earth you know exactly which one it is anyways. 03:10:12 However, at least with ecliptic longitude, that is different from geographic longitude, so ecliptic has an intersection point with the equator do define the zero point. 03:12:28 How they should define the geographic zero longitude today should be, according to the hour angle of the sun is _____ at J2000, for example. 03:12:50 That's not very constant. 03:13:29 it changes due to the precession isn't it? 03:13:40 every 26k years 03:14:09 aquarius! 03:15:51 Well, yes the equinox point changes due to precession, but that depend if you use the equinox of current date, or of reference date. If that is what you mean. 03:17:08 aw i actually wanted to figure out what you mean.. but yes 03:17:48 The Sanskrit word for the amount of precession is "ayanamsha". You say it is Aquarius; well, you may have heard of the "Age of Aquarius", but really the definition of the astrological age is not agreed on; either it is [1] the negatave ayanamsha, or [2] the constellation of vernal equinox point. But in case [1] you still need a reference date! 03:19:35 well how can be there one word for the absolute amount of precession? 03:19:53 You still need a reference date. 03:20:20 yes.. i thought that's what you mean by j2000 03:20:26 but i must have been wrong 03:21:25 J2000 is the reference date. 03:21:53 At least, J2000 is reference date most commonly used in astronomy today. 03:22:07 great 03:23:48 i remember you've been working on some kind of astronomy program.. didn't you? have you deployed it zzo38? 03:23:59 -!- augur has joined. 03:24:00 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:24:31 No, I have not even written it, I don't have the library and program and stuff to write it. 03:25:32 a pity.. how is that? 03:25:55 I tried to find it, ask someone, but I cannot find anything sufficient which is what I am trying to make. 03:26:02 "now according to astronomy it is even if the continents move" <--- well, you still need to agree on what the shape of the earth is, and there are various competing models of that 03:27:38 hm right!.. not obvious but actually true 03:27:47 kmc: O, well, at least you can try... I made a slight mistake. 03:28:20 http://i.imgur.com/gxRap.jpg?1 03:28:48 wow. 03:29:42 "C++ makes it easier, I guess, to do things right" this is rather more unprofessional than i would expect from a modern programming textbook shachaf! 03:29:53 That's not a textbook. 03:29:55 There is not a date on this quotation? 03:29:58 is that kind of a historical source? it belongs to museum 03:30:07 Bike: http://imgur.com/a/Nbp70#0 03:30:38 1993..okay 03:31:05 pretty intense 03:31:12 so it might not be influenced by precession 03:31:23 I like how the headline says "Objects: A silver bullet?" and then when you read the text it says "This object-oriented approach is not a silver bullet" 03:31:35 it's like the usual headline rule, i suppose 03:31:41 Yep. 03:31:52 except conveniently located all on the same page! 03:32:00 http://cdn2.damnfunnypictures.com/qwsk5cy-WasDarwinWrong001.jpg 03:32:08 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:32:19 you have to admire their commitment to negativity though, kmc. 03:32:26 they used a whole third of a page! 03:32:46 «"We see virtually all C development moving to C++ over the next two to three years." -- Bill Gates» 03:33:03 I guess they managed that by getting rid of their C compiler and using a C++ compiler for C code. 03:33:10 «Fuck you, I saved like a million lives» -- Bill Gates 03:33:11 Darwin may have been wrong about a few things. 03:33:21 now that's innovation! -- shachaf 03:33:40 he was certainly in the dark on many things, like the biochemical basis of heritable traits 03:34:08 zzo38 it's not that we know about the evolutionary processes for sure.. but all in all he was right yes 03:34:08 darwin's theory on heritable traits was great though. little invisible things of sand 03:34:20 But on the other hand he had a pretty good barnacle collection. 03:34:33 Probably better than Bike's barnacle collection. 03:34:49 it is :( 03:34:51 hadb4rd: It is what I mean, he may be correct in general but wrong in some details. 03:35:13 his worm collection is also to be envied 03:36:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:36:43 http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2012/10/18/163181524/charles-darwin-and-the-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-day 03:37:37 i like the art 03:37:38 > has (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] 03:37:41 False 03:37:42 > hasn't (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] 03:37:44 True 03:37:48 Er... 03:38:11 > M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] ^.. _at 'a' 03:38:13 [1] 03:38:14 -!- augur has joined. 03:38:19 @undefine 03:38:29 status: finnish national anthem stuck in head 03:38:40 > has (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] 03:38:42 True 03:38:46 kmc: The Finnish one or the Swedish one? 03:38:58 > hasn't (_at 'a') $ M.fromList [('a',1),('b',2)] 03:39:00 False 03:39:01 just the tune since i don't know either language 03:39:14 I thought it was two different tunes. 03:39:33 I could be wrong. :-( I should probably know that... 03:41:18 elliott, monqy Fiora 03:43:26 i'm not sure 03:44:53 solanum tuberosum 04:00:23 "Man arrested after smoking, drinking in ATM" 04:12:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:14:03 coppro: OK, just watched stargate continuum. now THAT was a stargate movie 04:17:21 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:17:26 That was a good'n. 04:33:39 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 04:36:35 CsoundMML is now made. 04:36:39 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:39:29 of time? 04:40:35 What time? 04:44:59 Sorry, bad joke based on Homestuck 04:45:10