00:23:45 -!- keb_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:28:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:28:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 00:28:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:29:16 -!- keb has joined. 00:30:00 elliott, what was up with that guy in the desert sub-plot btw? 00:30:05 I never totally got that 00:30:32 ... 00:30:36 it... doesn't admit simple explanation if you didn't figure out what was going on all the way through 00:30:50 elliott, that is like MOST of homestuck :P 00:31:20 elliott: I thought you didn't even read that? 00:31:34 I don't. 00:32:24 monqy: Do you? 00:32:32 what 00:32:52 at 00:33:16 hi 00:34:01 what is the idea behind newkitten? 00:34:15 "However, no known interpreter ever, not even the reference interpreter, seems to have implemented any part of this other than the rules about parentheses, and this is therefore arguably not part of the language." 00:34:22 Is this talking about the whole " <> [] thing? 00:34:43 yes 00:34:56 Ok 00:35:02 Vorpal: http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/WV 00:35:25 http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/9/99/00710.gif homestuck.gif 00:35:25 i don't like cats anyway 00:35:33 Sgeo, which language 00:35:45 Underload 00:37:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:38:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 00:38:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 00:38:24 `pastelog newkitten 00:39:09 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3209 00:41:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:41:36 Fiora, hm 00:42:10 the wiki is really relaly good for refreshing on characters and events and stuff 00:42:16 I'd be clueless without it 00:43:44 Fiora, I stopped reading homestuck ages ago 00:44:10 oh 00:44:19 sorry, I thought you were curious or something <_> 00:44:47 only very slightly 00:44:56 * elliott thinks Fiora needs glasses or something for those eyes 00:45:15 * Fiora has glasses and is blind without them 00:45:56 My windows have blinds and are glass without them. 00:46:22 my glass blinds are windows without Vorpal 00:46:34 * Fiora giggles 00:46:45 (That's a joke. I don't have any windows.) 00:46:54 -!- nooga_ has joined. 00:46:57 Phantom_Hoover, and Linux with me? 00:46:59 or what 00:47:03 (The room that I sleep in is dark day-round year-round.) 00:47:26 shachaf sleeps in a ditch. 00:47:33 (shachaf lives in the north pole) 00:47:43 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:48:02 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:48:04 shachaf lives at the center of the earth 00:48:24 does that mean he's weightless right now? 00:48:48 I feel bad for him though, that must be really stressful to life there 00:48:50 all the pressure, I mean 00:49:02 *live 00:49:08 Fiora, pretty sure he is also dead due to the high pressure 00:49:14 Well, that was fun 00:49:27 so it is probably rather peaceful 00:49:39 or turned to a diamond 00:49:40 ^rot13 Fiora 00:49:40 Svben 00:49:49 You should /nick Svben 00:49:51 shachaf is a self-aware system of magnetic fields in the core 00:49:56 ^rot13 shachaf 00:49:56 funpuns 00:50:03 .... oh. XD 00:50:05 Phantom_Hoover, neat 00:50:05 Well, that would be too obvious. 00:50:12 Fiora: that's actually shachaf's name 00:50:13 er 00:50:14 shachaf that is 00:50:15 not funpuns 00:50:21 elliott: OR IS IT 00:50:34 ^rot13 homestuck 00:50:34 ubzrfghpx 00:50:40 ^rot13 nepeta 00:50:40 arcrgn 00:50:46 they don't work so well :< 00:50:48 shachaf, that is a seriously cool rot13 though 00:50:56 ^rot13 vriska 00:50:57 ievfxn 00:51:20 ^rot13 Phantom_Hoover 00:51:20 Cunagbz_Ubbire 00:51:32 I quite like that one. 00:51:36 ^rot13 Vorpal 00:51:36 Ibecny 00:51:42 hmm 00:51:47 could be worse 00:52:00 ^rot13 Fiora 00:52:01 Svben 00:52:07 ^rot13 elliott 00:52:07 ryyvbgg 00:52:11 ooh, nice 00:52:12 ^rot13 nitya 00:52:13 avgln 00:52:15 ^rot13 arvid 00:52:16 neivq 00:52:16 ^rot13 bike 00:52:16 ovxr 00:52:22 ... okay sorry I guess this is getting spammy 00:52:25 ^scramble elliott 00:52:26 elottil 00:52:26 please 00:52:30 ^scramble Phantom_Hoover 00:52:30 PatmHoervo_onh 00:52:35 patm hoervo 00:52:36 it's not like we ever talk about anything worthwhile 00:52:44 sounds spanish 00:53:03 (:aSS):aSS working 00:53:10 (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) not working 00:54:10 Phantom_Hoover, yeah that doesn't work too well, pretty sure it should be rot14.5 in the Swedish alphabet though. Which doesn't work 00:54:20 my name that is 00:54:31 fuck your swedish letters 00:54:36 :D 00:54:52 you just drew circles on top of existing letters 00:55:01 hm traditionally w is not part of our alphabet 00:55:02 that's not a new letter 00:55:07 which means it would be plain rot14 00:55:09 which would work 00:56:34 `pastelog entanglement 00:56:46 night → 00:56:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.135 00:56:52 `pastelog untanglement 00:57:05 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14378 01:04:32 Well, that crashed Factor 01:05:58 Because the string was too long, I think 01:06:02 (The resulting string) 01:06:43 oops 01:07:11 that's a very good way of handling long strings 01:07:23 http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=2813 01:07:32 I think it's the graphics drawing thing that crashe 01:07:34 crashed 01:07:36 thanks your name 01:08:31 Sgeo: how does this do (foo)S 01:08:40 oh hmm 01:12:20 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:19:51 The same thing does not crash when using the console-based listener 01:24:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:25:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:25:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:27:09 That felt like it took way more intellectual resources than it should have 01:27:33 now write something that takes an integer and returns the underload church numeral. 01:28:03 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:28:09 And the debugger isn't as great as I was imagining 01:36:20 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:39:01 I have not the faintest idea how to write idiomatic Factor 01:39:18 Or is all Factor code supposed to be this ugly 01:42:14 why are you asking us and not the factor channel 01:42:50 "yes sgeo, it is supposed to be ugly" 01:42:53 Because the Factor channel is practically dead and you've done Factor before 01:43:04 I hear nobody uses factor 01:43:15 monqy: "interesting theory" 01:43:23 I heard Factor was basically dead. 01:43:31 is factor the new clojure? 01:43:48 but clojure was the new factor 01:43:56 I heard if you look in a mirror and chant the contents of A Programming Language backwards, Factor appears and kills you. 01:44:04 kmc: How's the new laptop? 01:44:06 You're using Debian? 01:44:48 yeah 01:44:53 it's really nice 01:45:06 Sure, Debian's great. 01:45:10 i mean the laptop ;P 01:45:28 it suspends to RAM in under 2 seconds and comes back all the way in 1 second flat 01:45:53 battery charges from 40% to 80% in 20 minutes 01:45:58 which one did you buy ? is it that new dell (the link posted yesterday) ? 01:46:13 I’m not sure any of my laptops have had perfectly working suspend-to-RAM ever. 01:46:18 How long does it take to go from 80 to 40? 01:46:24 no it's the thinkpad x1 carbon 01:46:34 ah :) 01:47:04 shachaf: about 2 hours 01:47:53 Is this the i5 8GB version? 01:48:17 yes 01:48:47 so yeah it seems to get about 5 hours battery life at my usage, though i haven't tested running it down all the way 01:49:14 better than the 3 that nelhage reported 01:49:18 i wonder what the key difference is 02:31:44 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 02:42:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:42:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:43:50 -!- david_werecat has joined. 02:51:19 ion: what kinds of problems did you have? 02:52:19 it's been a long time since i had major suspend-to-RAM problems with the thinkpads i've owned 02:53:33 shachaf: should i get the fingerprint reader working? 02:54:20 kmc: Would you use it? 02:56:54 I hear they're insecure! 02:56:58 probably not: http://www.ccc.de/updates/2007/umsonst-im-supermarkt?language=en 02:56:59 yeah 02:58:29 the software I found for my fingerprint reader is probably the least secure part of my system, not that it has any real security in the first place 02:58:36 it was kinda useful with the convertible tablet thinkpad because you could log in without the keyboard available 03:12:38 mmmm new computer smell 03:14:39 ah, among the bestest of smells 03:14:57 do you sleep with your thinkpad now? 03:17:33 not any more than before 03:17:47 -!- Zhaofeng_Li has joined. 03:34:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:38:49 Deewiant: You wanted bifunctors to use ~(a,b) patterns for tuples, right? 03:39:54 ~(~a,~b) -- just in case 03:42:04 I wonder if the fact that Haskell is discussed here very often could be taken as an indication of the nature of the language 03:42:28 hilarious 03:43:29 that has more than once been suggested in the past 03:43:45 i really should start more conversations about C++? 03:44:05 so, what do you think about the fact that in C++, both class A and class B can define what happens in the implicit conversion from A to B? 03:44:07 implement haskell in c++ templates 03:44:13 How does that work? 03:44:18 i forget who wins if there's a conflict 03:44:40 well B can implement a constructor B::B(const A&) 03:44:54 Probably A, except on Wednesdays 03:44:56 and A can implement a method B A::operator B() 03:45:25 can you define implicit conversions in Java? I know there's like, toString and stuff but is there general things? 03:45:29 I was wondering if this could occur there too 03:45:33 Doubtful 03:45:41 i don't think you can 03:45:46 I don't think Java allows even operator overloading 03:45:50 (In 2012) 03:46:07 Java is designed for verbosity and extreme lack of cleverness 03:46:09 so, uniquely C++ 03:46:18 point for c++. suck it steele 03:46:43 (implicit conversions give me hives, though) 03:46:54 yep 03:46:57 i like that Haskell has none 03:46:58 hum 03:47:09 that got me a lot of times at first 03:47:10 kmc: Until edwardk gets his hands on it, anyway. 03:47:11 I think you might be able to define a both ways implicit conversation in C# though 03:47:13 sigh 03:47:14 especially the Integer <-> Int distinction 03:47:20 yeah 03:47:23 imo Int should not be in Prelude 03:47:35 Prelude should have the conceptually simple things, not the optimized machine-dependent things 03:47:38 is it like java where Integers are boxed or 03:47:44 they're both boxed 03:47:45 it's like Lisp 03:47:59 Int is a box on an integer of implementation defined size 03:48:07 but at least [-2^29 .. 2^29-1] 03:48:08 oh, i see. 03:48:13 and an Integer is a bignum? 03:48:15 yes 03:48:18 and there's no implicit conversion 03:48:28 but you can make functions that are polymorphic over both, naturally 03:48:38 in fact even the numerical literal 17 is polymorphic 03:48:39 :t 17 03:48:41 Num a => a 03:48:49 yeah i went through learning that the other day 03:48:53 :/ 03:49:02 GHC also has unboxed integers but they're not part of the language spec 03:49:10 and they are subject to various limitations 03:49:11 um, just don't use more than 30 bits and then Int isnt implementation defined?? it's pretty trivial 03:49:28 for example (as in Java) you can't store an unboxed int in a generic data structure 03:49:34 shachaf: that's like programming for MIX 03:49:40 where a byte might be 8 bits or 2 decimal digits 03:49:48 haha that shit sucks 03:50:08 Java generics are glued on afterwards 03:50:19 No wonder they can't handle stuff like value types 03:50:32 well there is an actual reason 03:51:27 Backwards compatibility? 03:51:35 they aren't glued on afterwards in ML or Haskell and they have the same limitation 03:51:46 well wait what do you mean by "value types" 03:51:54 Scalar types 03:51:56 you mean these primitive ints we are discussing? 03:51:56 Like int or boolean 03:51:59 yeah 03:52:09 so the reason is, you compile the code for a polymorphic function only once 03:52:22 and that code needs to be correct no matter what the type variable is 03:52:51 so it basically has to treat things of that variable type as opaque pointers 03:52:59 That's one way of doing it. 03:53:04 but int and bool and float might not even be the same size as a pointer 03:53:18 and in Haskell not only do you care about size, but you care about being able to force evaluation 03:53:24 and follow GC indirections and stuff 03:53:35 which means they need to be pointers to objects in the managed heap, with a certain layout 03:53:52 Lumpio-: the other way (that I'm aware of) is that you compile a different version of the function for each type with which it's used 03:53:55 as in C++ templates 03:54:00 this has some advantages and many disadvantages 03:54:17 It takes some extra memory and time 03:54:22 Are there other disadvantages? 03:54:28 what are the disadvantages, besides uh... multiple compilations, name mangling insanity... 03:54:34 (Assuming we don't allow all the craziness C++ templates do, but just what Java generics allow for instance) 03:54:43 taking extra memory can also slow down the program 03:54:47 because your code doesn't fit in cache anymore 03:55:11 and you need the source of the template visible anywhere that it might be instantiated 03:55:16 it pretty much wrecks separate compilation 03:55:44 i can't dynamically load two libraries and then instantiate a template from one with a type from the other 03:55:52 that shit works fine in Java or Haskell 03:56:02 I thought we were talking generics, not templates 03:56:22 fine 03:56:24 C++ templates allow for much more than Java/.NET generics 03:56:32 i can't dynamically load two libraries and then use a polymorphic function from one with a type from the other 03:56:44 Yes you can because it's all JIT compiled. 03:57:11 are you talking about a real or hypothetical system? 03:57:23 Once it figures you need a new concrete version of a generic thing, it just compiles it on the fly (or in advance as things are loaded at runtime) 03:57:27 A real system. 03:57:32 which one? 03:57:37 .NET for instance 03:57:41 right 03:57:48 but then and you need the source of the template visible anywhere that it might be instantiated 03:57:58 And indeed you do 03:58:00 where by "source" we might mean some intermediate form 03:58:01 As bytecode. 03:58:21 Just like you need the bytecode for a Java generic class 03:59:07 It doesn't introduce any additional requirements or dependencies, it only wastes some time and memory 03:59:41 But it has the advantage of making List actually use a tight array of integers inside, not an array of pointers to boxed integers 04:00:14 sure 04:00:31 it's advantagous though if the semantics of your language don't *require* a clever JIT 04:00:35 Oh, and if the compiler is smart, it can coalesce many instantiations into one 04:00:39 kmc: I just said "trivial". 04:00:48 so the Java route is that, semantically, List is auto-boxed to List or whatever 04:00:50 Like, say, all lists of objects 04:00:56 and then if the JIT happens to optimize that to something clever, great 04:01:01 Since in that case they're all just opaque pointers. 04:01:04 -!- Zhaofeng_Li has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:01:20 but at the bytecode level you don't assume it will be able to 04:01:24 at least that's my understanding 04:01:34 20:00 this would actually be fairly trivial 04:02:28 elliott: thanks for the update 04:03:46 it's the same way with GHC even though it's an ahead of time compiler 04:04:00 a good JIT for Haskell would kick ass though 04:06:31 kmc: Did you know GHC doesn't do vectored returns anymore? 04:06:35 Everything is pointer tagged. 04:06:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:06:43 The "spineless tagless g-machine" thing is a total scam. 04:08:56 20:08 instance (Indexable Int k, Applicative f, a ~ a2, a ~ a3, a ~ a4, a ~ a5, a ~ a6, a ~ a7, a ~ a8, a ~ a9, b ~ b2, b ~ b3, b ~ b4, b ~ b5, b ~ b6, b ~ b7, b ~ b8, b ~ b9) => Each Int (a,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9) (b,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7,b8,b9) a b where 04:09:00 20:08 each = Lens.indexed $ \ f ~(a,b,c,d,e,g,h,i,j) -> (,,,,,,,,) <$> f (0 :: Int) a <*> f 1 b <*> f 2 c <*> f 3 d <*> f 4 e <*> f 5 g <*> f 6 h <*> f 7 i <*> f 8 j 04:11:19 Does GHC have spines? 04:11:36 shachaf: yeah 04:11:43 though pointer tagging is just an optimization 04:11:51 What are spines, anyway? 04:12:07 kmc: Well, not really at this point. 04:12:09 you could AND every pointer with ~7 and it would still produce correct results 04:12:10 oh? 04:12:11 I mean, you have to use the tags. 04:12:21 Unless I misunderstood. 04:12:39 When the tag is unset, you jump to the code the pointer points to and then you get a new pointer with a new tag. 04:13:03 ok 04:13:05 Or something like that? 04:13:14 It's possible that I misunderstood. 04:13:17 i guess that makes sense, instead of returning just the constructor index and making the caller OR it in 04:13:27 though for data types with more than 7 constructors you must still do something like that 04:13:41 Well, with more than 7 constructors you look at the pointer. 04:13:48 I think at the part before the code. 04:13:53 Or something like that. 04:13:53 anyway the tags referred to in the original STG machine would be things like tagging primitive ints vs boxes 04:14:06 ah the info table has the constructor index? makes sense 04:16:50 It would be nice if GHC supported unboxed sums. 04:16:59 Apparently that's a lot of trouble though. 04:17:10 So it doesn't w/w functions that return Either/Maybe/etc. 04:17:50 w/w? 04:17:54 worker/wrapper? 04:18:05 how would unboxed sums work exactly? 04:18:24 (# tag, value #) or something. 04:18:40 If you return Maybe you can either return (# 0, a #) or (# 1, b #) 04:18:56 Er, Either 04:19:16 ok 04:19:20 As opposed to allocating an Either which gets consumed immediately. 04:19:26 which means those go in two STG-machine registers right? 04:19:30 why not just use products 04:19:30 Right. 04:19:51 so why in particular is this a lot of trouble for the compiler 04:20:03 I'm not sure. 04:20:08 SPJ said "don't hold your breath" 04:20:25 sucks 04:21:39 It could help a lot for list processing functions and what not, I think. 04:26:56 yeah 04:27:23 Did you read the CPR paper? 04:27:28 don't think so 04:27:49 http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/Papers/cpr/index.htm 04:28:02 These things are always more involved than they sound. 04:28:51 elliott: are you generating documentation with cpp................. 04:29:23 Yes. 04:30:50 for what 04:31:11 ,4/!\ 04:33:12 lens. 04:40:39 @ping 04:40:39 pong 04:42:22 shachaf: I saw some juvenile cuttlefish today! 04:42:24 at the aquarium 04:45:43 they also had comb jellies 04:45:53 and an electric eel in a tank with electrodes such that you could hear its zapping over a loudspeaker 04:46:36 kmc: Was this in Boston? 04:46:49 yes, this one: neaq.org 04:46:54 Have you been to the Monterey Bay Aquarium? 04:46:59 no, i want to go though! 04:47:02 i will go some day 04:47:11 I was in Monterey and ended up not going. 04:47:14 :/ 04:47:21 Perhaps I'll be there again. 04:47:23 You should go! 04:47:31 Did you know Oleg is in Monterey? 04:47:36 doing some navy thing? 04:47:38 or is that over 04:47:48 is he looking for the nuclear wessels? 04:48:00 Isn't he predicting the weather or something? 04:48:04 Who knows. 04:48:07 makes sense 04:48:09 he *is* a wizard 04:48:24 perhaps delimited continuations are the secret to predicting the weather 04:55:19 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 04:56:20 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Client Quit). 05:03:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 05:11:14 @tell Deewiant https://github.com/ekmett/bifunctors/issues/1 (and lens behaves this way too) 05:11:14 Consider it noted. 05:22:36 shachaf: do you know how Chromium's Ctrl-F manages to e.g. find 'ß' if you search for 'ss'? 05:22:39 is it based on http://unicode.org/cldr/charts/supplemental/character_fallback_substitutions.html 05:22:49 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:22:59 Sgeo: update 05:27:26 there are combining characters for musical note heads, stems, and flags?? 05:27:27 jesus 05:27:51 haha why would you ever want that 05:28:10 kmc: Makes sense. 05:30:09 yeah 05:30:30 it is kind of questionable to include "characters" for things with highly specific unusual forms of typesetting 05:30:34 like musical notes and mathematics 05:30:36 also does this mean there's COMBINING HEAD ABOVE? one step closer to COMBINING PENIS ABOVE 05:30:43 in theory music / math typesetting tools could use these characters 05:30:49 what theory is that 05:30:51 but i think they basically never will 05:30:53 yeah 05:30:57 someone who's never tried to typeset music? 05:31:28 at least with the math characters you can do some basic shit like sum notation. without a staff how are you supposed to do music? 05:31:36 I guess you could indicate rhythm... and... that's about it. 05:32:30 well a music typesetting tool could store things as "♪ at position y" 05:32:43 representing some of the information using unicode 05:32:48 but it's highly doubtful anyone will want to do this 05:33:20 anyway ♫ is also used to represent the concept of music without specifying particular music 05:33:24 e.g. in closed captions 05:33:48 hm... actually, what's the intended scope of unicode? not "all human communication" of course, but where's the line? 05:34:41 all human communication except klingon 05:34:48 there are some amusing decompositions in the list... like ₪ can decompose to שח or ILS 05:36:07 Bike: i'll let you know if i come across a precise mission statement 05:36:24 i think it's basically "all text" but the definition of text is slippery 05:36:43 in part it's a descriptive standard that tries to unify existing codes 05:36:57 a lot of things are in there so that you can round trip with existing legacy codes losslessly 05:36:59 are you on some kind of unicode binge? 05:37:08 even ASCII's beloved hyphen-minus is an example of this! 05:37:12 typographically it is a shit character 05:37:26 oh is that why wikipedia uses em dashes instead 05:37:34 but there it is, in the first 128 codepoints! 05:38:04 i guess i'd never thought of that as being silly. monoglot bias i suppose. 05:38:13 yeah 05:38:39 (now put me in charge of a character set. you get ascii) 05:38:58 unicode binge... we were just outside barstow when the grass radicals began to take hold 05:38:58 actually huh, what does unicode do about all the control characters? 05:39:05 they're in there 05:39:14 since they're kind of... not... charactery 05:39:29 the first 256 codepoints of Unicode are the same as the 256 codepoints of ISO-8859-1 05:39:30 of course it has its own like the text direction stuff, but that's not quite as abstract as bell 05:39:42 (more eurocentrism for you!) 05:39:46 including the C0 and C1 control codes 05:41:06 and yeah it has all kinds of new control characters like text direction stuff, language indication (officially deprecated), byte-order mark, etc 05:41:56 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:42:15 oh they *also* have the control characters encoded again at e.g. http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2400/index.htm 05:42:33 the hell is that 05:42:38 these are visible characters for when you want to talk *about* NUL or STX or whatever 05:42:55 "SYMBOL FOR START OF HEADING" 05:43:12 yeah it's a symbol representing the ASCII character 1 05:43:20 the fuck 05:43:45 defining "character" gets pretty tricky... for example, A vs. bold A is just a font distinction, except that mathematicians treat them as semantically distinct characters 05:43:52 ␀ is my favourite codepoint. 05:43:56 now which one do I mean? 05:44:08 2400, because i have the wrong fonts installed. take that unicode 05:44:26 so Unicode has a bunch of copies of the latin alphabet for MATHEMATICAL SANS SERIF BOLD LATIN A and whatever 05:44:26 kmc: does unicode have blackboard bold? 05:44:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols 05:44:35 yes 05:44:49 unicode meetings must be exciting. 05:44:49 scumbag mathematicians 05:45:05 invented a way to draw an equivalent of bold on blackboards 05:45:07 i should figure out what the deal with han unification was sometime 05:45:09 then decided it means something else 05:45:13 then decided to write them in print too 05:45:23 mathematicians are the worst at syntax 05:45:28 yeah 05:45:37 multi-character identifier names??? pfffffffffft fuck that 05:45:58 it was a good day when I realized mathematicians were basically doing for(i ...) all day erryday 05:46:01 han unification was an argument over to what degree similar Han characters from Chinese and Japanese and (old) Korean are "the same character" 05:46:14 yeah, i got that much 05:46:16 they might look a bit different but that can be a font thing as well 05:46:20 just, the arguments either way and such 05:46:33 i think it came up at a time when people still wanted Unicode to be a 16-bit code only 05:46:36 old vietnamese uses them too, doesn't it? 05:46:37 so there was kind of a space crunch 05:46:39 probably 05:46:47 han unification seems like a completely terrible idea to me 05:46:53 especially since unicode has no qualm with duplicates normally 05:47:02 now i'm wondering if they unified all the various mongolian alphabets 05:47:04 well yeah they've come around to that position 05:47:12 right but have they fixed it yet :P 05:47:22 one reason for duplicates is lossless round-trip with legacy encodings 05:48:09 unicode meetings must be exciting. ← i want to know what the meeting about Multiocular O was like 05:48:56 maybe i should get a tattoo of multiocular o 05:49:17 ok, ok wait, back on the math thing. why does it have MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL D, then two undefined codepoints, then MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL G 05:49:28 what else is going to go in those codepoints 05:49:32 oh cause E and F are already in the Basic Multilingual Plane 05:49:44 wht 05:49:58 they put the more common script letters in first 05:50:03 and then they were like "fuck it" 05:50:41 "The letters in various fonts often have specific, fixed meanings in particular areas of mathematics. By providing uniformity over numerous mathematical articles and books, these conventions help to read mathematical formulae." it's cute how they think mathematicians will ever use anything but LaTeX 05:50:51 also lol MathML 05:51:09 oh, i see. you have MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE STRUCK CAPITAL X, then Y, at 1d54f and on, but then DOUBLE STRUCK CAPITAL Z is hanging out back in 2124 05:51:20 because it's integers. wow. 05:51:25 yeah. 05:51:37 unicode has got to be fucking full of these warts 05:52:07 http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cjb/codepoints.html 05:52:11 this list is pre-emoji too 05:52:15 so there's no PILE OF POO 05:52:20 aw :( 05:52:42 "GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA" so i suppose this is in the same area has multiocular o 05:53:00 U+FDFA is the Arabic phrase "May Allah pray on him and grant him peace" as a single character 05:53:17 http://decodeunicode.org/data/glyph/196x196/2368.gif i love you, apl 05:53:26 pffft 05:53:45 it's a tilde with diaresis, how do you even come up with that? 05:53:47 ⍨ 05:53:49 KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT would be a good name for a band 05:53:54 hi 05:54:04 Did I miss a good Unicode discussion? 05:54:05 ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 05:54:16 oh, uighur, hm 05:54:26 uighur please 05:54:39 i wonder if those people who write arabic-infused mandarin in cyrillic have opinions on unicode 05:55:08 -_- 05:55:09 kmc: well there is a popular latex derivative that uses unicode 05:55:10 (xetex) 05:55:14 kmc: what? 05:55:18 it's a face 05:55:19 dunno 05:55:40 it was a serious question, they must have some pretty unique opinions on scripts 05:55:46 yeah 05:55:54 though cyrillic is a pretty well behaeved script 05:55:58 if they don't have weird customizations 05:56:00 which they probably do 05:57:12 "It is a Russian based alphabet plus four special letters: Җ, Ң, Ә, and Ў." well there we go then 05:57:33 "Zhe with extra crap hanging off the side" 05:57:44 Cyrillic_Capital_Letter_Zhe_With_Descender apparently, so... yes 05:57:58 Cyrillic Capital Letter Schwa. Lovely. 05:58:31 Chuvash language has CYRILLIC LETTER U WITH DOUBLE ACUTE 05:58:39 Ӳӳ 05:59:11 erdős, plural: erdӳ 05:59:15 yep 06:00:09 hm, apparently the dungan used to have their own script, which was basically chinese in arabic 06:00:30 "شِيَوْ عَر " 06:01:17 and it has four unique letters! yay 06:01:41 are they in unicode 06:02:11 google detects dungan as bulgarian, utterly fails to translate it 06:02:26 hm, wikipedia doesn't say which are unique 06:02:37 kmc: Do you know what the cheese which is called "bulgarian cheese" in Hebrew is? 06:02:42 is ARABIC_LETTER_KEHEH_WITH_THREE_DOTS_ABOVE used in usual arabic 06:03:13 shachaf: what is it? 06:03:23 I was hoping you knew! 06:03:27 It's sort of similar to feta. 06:03:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xiaoerjing-Ekzemplafrazo.svg is that a quotation mark? if so it's pretty awesome. 06:03:38 It's made with sheep's milk, I think? 06:03:41 It's good. 06:03:51 It's popularly eaten with watermelon (as well as many other things). 06:04:14 Bike: nice 06:04:43 "manuscripts which use the Arabic script for transcribing Romance languages such as Mozarabic, Portuguese, Spanish or Ladino" this must be exciting 06:04:45 is it this shachaf? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirene 06:05:41 using Arabic script to write a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew o_O 06:05:42 kmc: Hmm, it says it's "similar". 06:05:46 Hard to say. 06:06:13 kmc: you're aware of basque-icelandic pidgin right 06:06:18 Bike: what no 06:06:20 The Hebrew link on that page links to the Hebrew page. 06:06:28 kmc: swear to god it's real 06:06:31 I don't think I've come across that name before. 06:06:49 i think there was also a polish-mongolian pidgin 06:06:50 kmc: Apparently it is! 06:06:51 Bike: what 06:06:55 wow 06:07:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Mongolian_literary_relations 06:07:03 i like that one of the example phrases on wikipedia is "Fuck you!" 06:07:15 life is beautiful, elliott 06:07:36 Bike: why is ther e basque-icelandic pidgin 06:07:45 kmc: i imagine it comes up a lot when you're an icelandic sailor trying to talk to this weird mountainous french guy??? 06:07:46 *there a 06:07:57 elliott: so that icelanders and basques could talk, duh 06:08:02 hehehe 06:08:19 how did french people end up at the far side of iceland anyway 06:08:26 they got lost 06:08:30 i'll say 06:08:53 how did norse people end up on the far side of greenland 06:09:11 Wash a shirt for me. Fuck you! Give me garters. I will give you a biscuit and a sour drink. If Christ and Maria give me a whale, I will give you the tail. You are an evil man. Give me hot milk and new butter. 06:09:14 Ha, Bike still believes in Greenland. 06:09:32 give you the... is that some kind of rhyming insult 06:09:57 speaking of which, as long as i'm talking about language trivia i don't really know, are you all aware that rap battles have been invented independently all over the world centuries ago 06:09:57 i don't know 06:10:05 no but that's great 06:12:17 there are entirely different traditions in, say, norse (flyting) and... i forget the turkmen one 06:12:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 06:13:53 as long as i'm talking about whales did you know that all whales found beached on the shores of Britain are considered property of the Queen? 06:13:56 sturgeons too 06:14:06 well in Scotland it's only those whales too large to be pulled to land by a "wain pulled by six oxen" 06:17:51 אנשים נוטים לבלבל בין גבינת הפטה לגבינה הבולגרית, אך תהליך הייצור שלהם וטעמן שונה. הבולגרית עוברת כבישה והיא יותר קשיחה, לעומת הפטה שנוטה להתפורר. 06:21:19 kmc: what about in wales 06:25:59 whales in wales?!?!? 06:26:04 yes 06:26:32 _1 06:26:32 :: forall s t a b (f :: * -> *) (k :: * -> * -> *). 06:26:32 (Functor f, Indexable Int k, Field1 s t a b) => 06:26:32 k (a -> f b) (s -> f t) 06:26:37 Guess who's to blame for that type? 06:26:40 Hint: It's elliott. 06:27:14 is that a type with type annotations in it? 06:27:27 Kind annotations. 06:27:31 neat. 06:27:35 A kind is a type of a type. 06:27:38 yeah, i know. 06:28:37 those kinds could be inferred anyway 06:28:46 but ghci helpfully prints the ones which are not * 06:29:14 Except it doesn't. 06:29:16 does ghc possibly with whatever crazed extensions you're using have kinds other than -> ones? 06:29:19 shachaf just turned it on. 06:29:29 Bike: yes 06:29:33 What? 06:29:42 There are no datakinds there. 06:30:03 even without turning on any extensions, ghc has a few extra kinds 06:30:19 #, the kind of unboxed types 06:30:29 catchy name 06:30:33 Can you get access to them these days, without extensions? 06:30:35 (#), the kind of unboxed tuple typess (which are not unboxed types for this purpose) 06:30:38 (->) :: * -> * -> * 06:30:47 and ? and ?? which are unions of those 06:30:49 :k (->) 06:30:50 * -> * -> * 06:30:53 those don't exist any more kmc 06:30:54 huh why 06:30:55 ok 06:30:56 they have more reasonable names now 06:30:59 it's all different now 06:30:59 OpenKind and stuff 06:31:04 also now you have datakinds 06:31:04 elliott: # exists! 06:31:05 and constraintkinds 06:31:10 yes 06:31:13 Kinds, kinds, kinds! 06:31:17 so for instance Foo :: [Int] -> Constraint! 06:31:37 If it's unsatisfiable we call it a Constrain't. 06:32:37 elliott: huh what does "Constraint" mean as a type? 06:32:54 kmc: a constraint 06:32:57 like (Num Int) 06:32:59 or (a ~ b) 06:33:06 i understand it as a kind, e.g. forall (c :: Constraint). c => t 06:33:07 or (Num a, Foo a) 06:33:10 it's a kind there 06:33:13 how 06:33:14 that was a kind signature for Foo 06:33:18 oh 06:33:21 type family Foo :: [Int] -> Constraint 06:33:21 because [Int] is a datakind 06:33:22 -!- popl has joined. 06:33:26 type instance Foo '[] = () 06:33:32 this is some crazy shit 06:33:35 [Int] isn't a type in this context? 06:33:35 type instance Foo (x ': xs) = (MyTypeClassTakingAnInt x, Foo xs) 06:33:38 Bike: nope. 06:33:39 yeah 06:33:44 Hello. 06:33:46 it makes sense now 06:33:47 uh. so ... what is it 06:33:55 Bike: a lifted data kind. 06:34:00 GHC lifts data types to the kind level, and data constructors to the type level 06:34:15 when you enable appropriate crazy extensions 06:34:21 Haskell is esoteric? 06:34:36 #esoteric is on topic? 06:34:45 kmc: Mommy? 06:34:47 right i'm going to file this away as something i shouldn't try to understand right this second because i'll just fuck it up 06:34:52 thanks anyway 06:35:09 biiikeeee 06:35:21 what 06:35:46 I just found http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html 06:35:50 I think it's really cool. 06:36:08 i think the wiki has several examples of image languages 06:36:16 you're being like you and self-deprecating and depressive and stuff 06:36:43 geez, i'm just trying to be realistic. i barely know type theory, taking it to The Next Level too fast is just a dumb way to learn. 06:36:58 yeah a lot of people make this mistake learning haskell 06:37:09 Haha, Piet is in Category:Low-level 06:37:22 popl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages i think most of these are actually fungoids but 06:37:26 I was thinking how this channel allowed escape codes and thought about writing a language that made use of them. Then I thought somebody else might have already done, and I found Piet. 06:38:02 kmc: what mistake? 06:38:04 Bike: The operations are all low-level. I think it's neat. 06:38:23 it is neat, i just don't normally associate "low-level" and "you distribute it as a png" 06:38:41 hey, that means the executables come pre-compressed right? 06:38:43 XD 06:38:45 genius 06:38:48 Bike: trying to understand the coolest sounding advanced ideas without understanding the fundamentals 06:38:52 and instead of an executable packer, you have pngout 06:38:53 so i think your attitude is reasonable 06:39:15 oh, yeah 06:39:40 if i actually wanted to learn haskell i'd just write a regex matcher in it or something, it's more fun to sit around pretending to learn math 06:40:03 the archetypal example are people who are obsessed with "learning monads" but don't understand type classes and higher order functions 06:40:31 monads without understanding higher order functions sounds... depressing, really 06:40:33 yeah 06:40:39 "low-level" and "high-level" have two different meanings. 06:40:45 One is close or far to what the machine does. 06:40:50 The other is close or far to what you want to say. 06:41:00 We need two different sets of words for this. :-( 06:41:02 it's depressing that any programmers do not understand higher order functions, but there we are 06:41:23 did you know that Higher-Order Perl is a book that exists? 06:41:28 ok 06:41:48 What's wrong with that? 06:42:01 nothing, really 06:49:45 kmc: Did you mean it's depressing that all programmers do not ... ? 06:50:19 his sentence seems fine as it is. 06:50:31 "it's depressing that programmers that do not understand higher order functions exist" 06:50:42 AHHHH 06:51:03 popl: what are you even doing here popl 06:51:18 shachaf: slumming 06:51:23 :D 06:52:00 shachaf: It was easier to type /j #esoteric then /topic #esoteric 06:52:45 shachaf: And Bike ended up giving me the URI for the wiki anyways (it is not in the topic). 06:52:57 shachaf: I will leave if you ask. 06:53:21 `welcome popl 06:53:26 popl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:53:27 `WELCOME popl 06:53:29 POPL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 06:53:31 there's two URIs for you 06:53:32 i did? 06:53:36 ok the latter might not actually be a URI 06:53:44 22:37 < Bike> popl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages i think most of these are actually fungoids but 06:53:50 gosh 06:54:03 -!- Yonkie has quit. 06:55:10 I was joking when I said I was slumming. 06:55:20 elliott: I'm sorry I said your favoritest language was COBOL. 06:55:30 but it is 06:55:36 cobol's pretty cool 06:55:37 OH! GOOD! 07:17:21 -!- keb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:03:11 -!- monqy has joined. 08:38:41 -!- carado has joined. 08:53:47 `WeLcOmE 08:53:53 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 08:54:04 -!- popl has quit (Quit: Goodbye.). 08:54:15 `welcome monqy 08:54:17 monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:54:32 `welcome `welcome 08:54:33 hi shachaf 08:54:34 ​`welcome: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:54:37 hi monqy 08:55:00 `welcome ACTION 08:55:02 ​.ACTION: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:55:09 monqy: what's the pacific ocean like 08:56:28 it's an ocean 08:56:56 monqy: what about the indian ocean 08:58:12 also an ocean 08:58:45 monqy: what about the red sea 08:58:53 a sea 08:59:39 monqy: lake superior?? 09:01:06 a superior lake 09:01:23 shachaf you should be able to figure this out yourself 09:01:58 monqy: It's kind of tricky. 09:02:05 You have a natural talent at this. 09:03:04 monqy: What about the Sun? 09:03:17 a sun 09:03:27 What about 09:03:49 FreeFull: The Sun is dead. 09:03:51 rip sun 09:08:07 "when the doors of perception are cleansed man will see things as they truly are..infinite" 09:08:38 -wiliam blake 09:11:37 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 09:19:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:21:57 -!- ogrom has joined. 09:24:11 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:31:00 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:47:07 elliott: Bet me the year of my birth doubled is an odd number. 09:47:44 shachaf: You were born in a halfyeaer? 09:48:40 ElephantTraversal 10:04:03 `quote 10:04:03 `quote 10:04:04 `quote 10:04:04 `quote 10:04:04 `quote 10:04:05 470) now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him 10:04:05 233) OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension 10:04:06 216) Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway? 10:04:06 618) VMS Mosaic? I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS. 10:04:07 14) Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 10:06:57 `pastelogs Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 10:07:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3026 10:08:08 oh it was only no. 23 when it was added. 10:08:21 deletions aren't _quite_ as harsh as i feared :P 10:08:41 `quote 10:08:42 `quote 10:08:42 `quote 10:08:42 `quote 10:08:43 470) now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him 10:08:43 `quote 10:08:44 164) HOT SEXY SEX BITS 10:08:44 299) I just thought you might have meant the Ramanujan tau and I was WOAH he weilds heavy weapons 10:08:46 212) ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing I think that would be illegal. oh you are right damn :/ 10:08:46 717) aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable 10:09:06 i think 470 may have a death wish 10:09:13 Didn't someone delete 164 once? 10:09:13 470 is beautiful 10:09:22 164 is also beautiful 10:09:40 what's with 212......... 10:09:48 also what's with 717, but in a different way 10:10:07 wha'ts with the pacific ocean monqy! 10:10:13 monqy: 212 explanation: vorpal. 10:10:14 monqy: i don't think it's illegal any longer. maybe Vorpal should try again. 10:10:15 -!- nooga has joined. 10:10:19 717 explanation: my scherzo is unmeasurable 10:10:19 or is it. 10:10:21 apparently 10:10:33 kmc: What do *you* think about The Hashable Controversy? 10:10:39 elliott is getting quite worked up about it. 10:10:47 shachaf: it's a controversy now? 10:10:51 Yes. 10:11:15 i saw a reddit post but i didn't notice any controversy 10:11:18 shachaf: don't worry, I know you like to get shit done 10:11:26 shachaf: and that's why you use classy-prelude and new hashable 10:11:37 kmc: Example ☝ 10:11:53 elliott: Don't make me get my CanMapM_Func! 10:13:42 elliott: Did edward say /why/ he repented anywhere? 10:14:21 Deewiant: Apparently dolio convinced him. 10:14:54 Repented on what? 10:16:14 Deewiant: Quoth: "`nand` made a solid case in some code here, and dolio worked me over about the lack of true products in haskell for months before i broke.." 10:16:15 16.07:11:14* elliott | @tell Deewiant https://github.com/ekmett/bifunctors/issues/1 (and lens behaves this way too) 10:16:18 shachaf: On that. 10:16:28 s/broke../broke./ 10:16:38 @tell Deewiant Oh. 10:17:30 Deewiant: HTH. 10:17:38 elliott: Where's that quote from? 10:17:52 Deewiant: I told edwardk you wanted to know and that's what he said. 10:17:57 I am basically Deewiant'sIRC client. 10:18:02 Also Deewiant's IRC client. 10:18:02 Right. :-P 10:18:12 (But: #haskell-lens.) 10:19:48 Bike: why is ther e basque-icelandic pidgin <-- istr the basques were pretty great fishermen, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Basque_people#Basque_sailors 10:24:38 elliott, monqy Fiora updat 10:24:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:24:54 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 10:24:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:42:15 shachaf: I will leave if you ask. <-- NO DON'T GIVE SHACHAF POWER 10:42:25 IT'S TOO LATE HE ALREADY LEFT 10:42:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:42:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:42:51 Guys 10:42:53 I never 10:42:58 have to pretend to be a rabbi 10:43:03 ever again 10:43:09 good, good 10:43:13 what 10:43:48 <-- does it have to exist to be a URI? 10:43:51 ok the latter might not actually be a URI <-- does it have to exist to be a URI? 10:44:02 School's Youth Theatre's performance of Fiddler on the Roof is over 10:44:07 pesky non-automatic pasting 10:44:49 `? taneb 10:44:51 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. 10:45:31 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. 10:45:35 I knew that. 10:45:46 that almost rhymes 10:45:47 @quote Taneb 10:45:47 No quotes match. Where did you learn to type? 10:45:52 @quote Ngevd 10:45:53 No quotes match. Are you on drugs? 10:46:01 oerjan: double spaces after . s:( 10:46:03 *.s :( 10:46:20 elliott: um there is a double space 10:46:26 oerjan: EXACTLY 10:46:33 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask.He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. 10:46:36 I knew that. 10:46:38 Hmm, that's not right. 10:46:38 no no NO 10:46:38 AAAAAAAAAAA 10:46:43 there should be 1 space 10:46:44 Let's compromise. 10:46:45 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. 10:46:45 that's how it's meant to be 10:46:48 thank you 10:46:49 I knew that. 10:46:58 elliott: i thought double space was the standard. is that only for quotes? 10:47:09 yes. 10:47:12 Double space isn't for separating sentences... 10:47:20 the "elliott standard" 10:47:21 Only the scum of the earth separate sentences with double space. 10:47:22 * oerjan sad 10:47:40 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 10:47:41 For some reason I always doublespace between sentences in emails. I scum. 10:48:26 fizzie: The worst part is when you only do it on the first sentence. 10:48:30 That makes you a start-scummer. 10:48:31 oerjan: can you figure out how to unify view and view' 10:48:36 it's really buggign me 10:48:39 also bugging 10:48:53 :t view 10:48:54 MonadReader s m => Getting a s t a b -> m a 10:48:55 :t view' 10:48:56 MonadReader s m => Getting a s s a a -> m a 10:49:14 ok what are those and what's the actual difference 10:49:22 Same implementation. 10:49:23 view' = view 10:49:30 unifiedview :: MonadReader s m => Getting a s t a b -> m a hth 10:49:34 oerjan: Getting a s t a b -> s -> a 10:49:40 you don't have to care about the monad part 10:49:46 True. 10:49:49 oerjan: the problem is that s,t,a,b aren't known to be related by the typesystem 10:50:00 -!- sgeo_ has joined. 10:50:01 OKAY 10:50:03 oerjan: so if you have something which would be ambiguous if not for defaulting, then it still remains ambiguous 10:50:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:50:07 because it defaults s and a because you actually pass them 10:50:10 but t and b are just floating there 10:50:17 whereas with view' it's made unambiguous 10:50:31 we'd ideally like some way to say "if this function is used ambiguously, try again assuming s ~ t, a ~ b" 10:51:29 did you try the constraint GHC.Exts.MaybeUnify 10:51:33 a b 10:51:52 shachaf: Hey, I called my typeclass attempting to hack it in MaybeUnify. 10:52:02 I named the one I invented after yours. 10:52:07 Sorry. :-( 10:52:47 I didn't even tell you about mine! 10:53:05 02:34 what we need is some kind of constraint (MaybeUnify a b) 10:54:00 dammit 10:54:17 you let the secret escape 10:54:48 elliott: I'm a real mind reader. 10:54:59 After that, you went to Oleg's website and looked for similar things. 10:55:14 You found one, btu it turned out to just be (~)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 11:37:53 kmc: Usually some piece of hardware not working after resume. 11:45:55 We have a Lenovo laptop here where the firmware fan controller makes it do this really horrible "cycle the fan on to ~full for two seconds every 15 seconds when the box is idle" loop. It does that in Linux and in a clean Win8 install, but not in the provided Win7 with Lenovo's "Power Manager" thing running; presumably that takes control from the EC and runs the fans by itself. It's really a wurst. 11:47:48 ibm_acpi has an experimental mode where it can do thermal monitoring an fan control (and people have written scripts to do that), but I don't even know if it would work in that thing, and anyway it sounds like a good way to melt a processor or something. 11:52:40 have you tried upgrading the bios/ 11:52:55 Sure, it's at the latest revision they've made for that model. 11:53:09 Googling suggests Lenovo has fixed a number of older ThinkPads with similar fan issues with firmware upgrades. 11:54:02 I should probably complain on their forums. Though there's a 35-page thread from owners of a not-the-same-but-reasonably-close-in-model-number-space complaining about a fan loop, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. 11:54:20 (I have also tried turning it off and then on.) 11:56:08 yo elliott, i hird u like algebra, so i put sums and products in ur records 12:10:43 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 12:11:04 -!- monqy has joined. 12:46:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:49:00 :t main 12:49:02 Not in scope: `main' 12:49:02 Perhaps you meant `min' (imported from Data.Ord) 12:50:32 main :: IO a => a 12:51:59 Deewiant: what 12:52:01 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:52:38 GHC.Prim.State# exists but if I attempt to look at it, ghci parses the # as a separate symbol 12:53:07 you don't want to look at that 12:53:09 so it doesn't matter 12:53:32 FreeFull: {-# LANGUAGE MagicHash #-} or so 12:53:54 * elliott sigh 12:54:06 I should adjust GHC's IO representation so there isn't a definition in a file ending .hs. 12:54:18 elliott, so frustrated 12:54:42 also yes, main can be IO a for any a 12:54:50 yes but that's not what Deewiant said... 13:15:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:15:52 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:18:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:26:04 heh, guess I shouldn't try to write some quick Haskell on my phone without thinking when I haven't written Haskell in months 13:27:05 writing Haskell on a phone sounds distinctly unpleasant 13:28:00 Writing a phone on Haskell, though... 13:29:45 "fmap to unlock" 13:31:31 main :: MonadIO a => a 13:31:39 main :: MonadIO m => m a 13:53:34 :t putStr 13:53:36 String -> IO () 13:54:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:05:44 I'm graduating in a few days 14:05:46 It feels weird 14:07:16 i'll say 14:09:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 14:11:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:15:22 Ominously closer and closer to that dissertation 14:17:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:30:58 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:31:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:35:51 -!- david_werecat has joined. 14:43:45 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:56:44 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:03:43 -!- nooga has joined. 15:37:11 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 16:10:38 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:22:27 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 16:34:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:34:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:34:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:34:28 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:59:52 fizzie: oh yeah, my friend's thinkpad did the fan cycle thing 16:59:54 then the fan died :( 17:00:25 shachaf: what's the controversy 17:00:46 shachaf: and that's why you use classy-prelude and new hashable ← learning a lesson :( 17:02:15 hagb4rd++ for william blake quote 17:13:11 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 17:19:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:20:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:55:11 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:55:28 -!- ogrom has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:30 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:11:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:11:22 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:11:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:14:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:21:30 -!- Bike has joined. 18:23:25 -!- ais521 has joined. 18:23:29 Hello 18:23:30 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:23:51 ais521, you're looking somewhat decremented 18:23:53 Twice over 18:24:59 Well, since ais523 asked me (AnotherTest) to stop my testing period, this is my new pseudonym 18:26:06 Interesting to note: 521 and 523 form a prime twin 18:28:21 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 18:28:36 :/ 18:32:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:35:32 This is going to be confusing, I can tell 18:36:38 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:37:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:37:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:37:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:38:52 My vimrc file disappeared? :( 18:39:14 I can't exactly recall deliberately removing it 18:39:33 You know, ghci is actually pretty neat for programming with SDL 18:39:46 Because you can enter SDL commands and see what happens without having to recompile every time 18:56:34 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 19:05:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:08:17 -!- davidwerecat has joined. 19:08:17 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:08:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:38:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:40:14 This is going to be confusing, I can tell <-- YOU DON'T SAY 19:40:18 --> 19:40:29 let's hope not 19:51:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:52:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:52:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:55:33 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:55:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:07:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:10:38 -!- ais521 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:18:47 kmc: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/14tdab/a_major_new_release_of_the_hashable_library/ 20:19:59 -!- dekas has joined. 20:20:19 ok 20:24:45 -!- ogrom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:30:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:33:07 What is love? 20:33:57 happiness 20:35:28 Baby don’t hurt me 20:37:56 No more. 20:39:47 `quote 20:39:50 361) I'm not even going to try and understand what you're proposing. i understand it perfectly. it's completely nuts. 20:40:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:42:40 -!- augur has joined. 20:43:01 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:43:43 If a Brainfuck interpreter throws an error when it receives a comment, is it still considered a Brainfuck interpreter 20:43:53 no 20:44:39 Guess what the Brainfuck implementation that comes with Factor does? 20:44:44 no, it's an interpreter for a similar-to-BF language 20:44:57 what if it terminates upon reading a NUL character? 20:45:21 It would be a quick change to fix it though 20:46:19 https://github.com/slavapestov/factor/blob/master/extra/brainfuck/brainfuck.factor 20:48:14 -!- dekas has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:59:07 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 21:01:54 -!- asiekierka has joined. 21:05:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:05:04 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:08:23 you didn't even give dekas a `welcome, how will he now know where to go for esoteric love 21:08:40 `hi oerjan 21:08:42 hi 21:08:48 `hi shachaf 21:08:49 hi 21:09:00 @hi lambdabot 21:09:01 No match for "lambdabot". 21:09:05 oh no 21:09:41 @hi there 21:09:41 No match for "there". 21:09:51 lambdabot: ? 21:09:52 Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add 21:09:52 djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune 21:09:52 fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma 21:09:52 karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 21:09:52 oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc 21:09:54 read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc 21:09:55 @hip shachaf 21:09:56 topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow 21:09:58 Maybe you meant: bid help id map 21:10:05 @bid there 21:10:06 Can't find 'there' 21:10:11 Hm. 21:10:12 @id there 21:10:12 there 21:10:21 @help shachaf 21:10:21 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:10:28 @help there 21:10:29 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 21:10:32 Hm. 21:10:34 @map there 21:10:34 http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellUserLocations 21:10:39 @id shachaf 21:10:39 shachaf 21:10:41 @hit there 21:10:42 No match for "there". 21:10:48 @hiss there 21:10:48 No module "there" loaded 21:10:57 @hits there 21:10:58 Unknown command, try @list 21:11:02 @bit there 21:11:02 Can't find 'there' 21:11:17 @hot there 21:11:17 Maybe you meant: do ft let show vote what yow 21:11:36 @ft shachaf 21:11:37 Done. 21:11:40 yay 21:11:48 what did that do 21:11:51 @help ft 21:11:52 ft . Generate theorems for free 21:12:01 i have no idea what just happened!!! 21:12:06 @ft 2+2 = 4 21:12:07 oh dear it generated shachaf. for free no less! 21:12:07 Done. 21:12:17 Wow! 21:12:38 @ft bike :: oerjan -> Bike oerjan 21:12:39 Done. 21:12:49 @free bike :: oerjan -> Bike oerjan 21:12:50 $map_Bike f . bike = bike . f 21:13:00 @help ft 21:13:00 ft . Generate theorems for free 21:13:01 @help free 21:13:02 free . Generate theorems for free 21:13:05 @ft id 21:13:07 Done. 21:13:13 oh hm 21:13:19 @hitchcock shachaf 21:13:19 No match for "shachaf". 21:13:28 oerjan++ 21:13:37 @help hitchcock 21:13:38 I perform dictionary lookups via the following 13 commands: 21:13:38 all-dicts ... Query all databases on dict.org 21:13:38 devils ...... The Devil's Dictionary 21:13:38 easton ...... Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary 21:13:38 elements .... Elements database 21:13:40 [9 @more lines] 21:13:42 @more 21:13:42 foldoc ...... The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing 21:13:44 gazetteer ... U.S. Gazetteer (1990) 21:13:46 hitchcock ... Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's) 21:13:48 jargon ...... Jargon File 21:13:50 lojban ...... Search lojban.org 21:13:52 [4 @more lines] 21:14:01 My name totally appears in the bible! 21:14:01 shachaf isn't a biblical name? shocking 21:14:12 Admittedly it's mostly listed as a bird you can't eat. 21:14:29 @hitchcock nathan 21:14:30 *** "Nathan" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)" 21:14:30 Nathan, given; giving; rewarded 21:14:30 21:14:53 is that like the thing where locusts may or may not be kosher, or whatever 21:14:53 @hitchcock Taneb 21:14:54 No match for "Taneb". 21:15:21 @hitchcock аdam 21:15:21 No match for "аdam". 21:15:25 ... 21:15:27 I guess that's not biblical either. 21:15:31 with the command name, i would rather have imagined an index of horror films 21:15:45 @hitchcock psycho 21:15:46 No match for "psycho". 21:15:50 @hitchcock jehosaphat 21:15:50 No match for "jehosaphat". 21:16:01 @hitchcock jesus 21:16:02 *** "Jesus" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)" 21:16:02 Jesus, savior; deliverer 21:16:02 21:16:16 @hitchcock hitchcock 21:16:16 No match for "hitchcock". 21:16:22 coïncidence? 21:16:24 would have been embarassing to leave that out 21:16:29 @hitchcock adam 21:16:30 *** "Adam" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)" 21:16:30 Adam, earthy; red 21:16:30 21:16:43 wat 21:16:50 > "аdam" 21:16:51 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 21:16:58 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 21:17:27 hitchcock didn't cover cyrillic? terrible 21:17:49 @hitchcock Адам 21:17:50 No match for "Адам". 21:19:13 @show Адам 21:19:13 "\208\144\208\180\208\176\208\188" 21:20:14 @echo Адам 21:20:14 echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo \208\144\208\180\ 21:20:14 208\176\208\188"]} rest:"\208\144\208\180\208\176\208\188" 21:22:34 -!- asiekierka has quit (Excess Flood). 21:22:54 -!- asiekierka has joined. 21:26:51 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:35:44 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:43:25 -!- Gregor-3DS has joined. 21:44:10 3DS = worst IRC client 21:44:51 I've used that one thing in it. 21:45:15 Well, not in the 3DS, just on the DS. 21:45:35 Gregor-3DS, better or worse than Webchat on a Kindle? 21:45:49 Ah yes, that one thing. 21:45:59 DSOrganize! That thing. 21:46:06 It had a built-in IRC client, I think. 21:46:11 It was also the worst. 21:46:12 Taneb: Probably better. 21:46:14 (There are many worst.) 21:46:38 That was, in fact, web chat on 3DS. 21:47:16 I can't find a sensible screenshot of the DSOrganize IRC. But it was worst. 21:47:50 worse than mirc? 21:48:00 Oh, there's a set of screenshots, but they're just about how to use DSOrganize IRC + bitlbee in order to MSN from the DS. 21:49:06 It also has the worst web browser. 21:49:16 Maybe webchat on it would be doubleworst. 21:50:28 -!- Gregor-3DS has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:53:03 The browser on 3DS (built in, not a hack) isn't TERRIBLE, but I wouldn't want to use it too much. 21:53:53 doubleplusungood 21:59:30 The DSOrganize one is terrible. 22:00:04 http://nds.scenebeta.com/biblioarchivosdrupal/nds_pub/active/0/dso1.png that's it browsing bash.org. 22:16:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:25:13 I'm considering buying a DS homebrew cart for my 3DS. 22:25:18 Is there any vaguely-worthwhile homebrew? 22:27:53 There might be some. There might also be some homebrew for other systems which can be emulated on DS 22:29:44 last I heard flash karts still don't work on the DSi or 3DS... 22:30:32 Fiora: The right ones do, the wrong ones never will. 22:30:48 Fiora: The ones for 3DS are just DS-mode though, there's no true 3DS homebrew yet. 22:41:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:45:09 Nintendo doesn't like homebrew much 22:50:49 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:51:53 FreeFull: Indeed. 23:04:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:05:53 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 23:05:55 http://scpclassic.wikidot.com/scp-031 23:06:02 Thank you, scpclassic person 23:13:39 -!- keb has joined. 23:52:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:23 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:58:40 -!- TeruFSX has joined.