00:08:35 Can you make a Verilog/VHDL/PALASM/other hardware description languages implementation of Checkout? 00:13:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:39:06 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:01:14 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 01:12:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:18:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:18:54 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:22:46 «I'm not a real programmer. I throw together things until it works then I move on. The real programmers will say "Yeah it works but you're leaking memory everywhere. Perhaps we should fix that." I’ll just restart Apache every 10 requests.» -- Rasmus Lerdorf 01:22:50 «We restart HN every 5 or 6 days, or it gets slow (memory leaks).» -- Paul Graham 01:22:54 Coïncidence? 01:24:17 haha 01:24:35 real programmers indeed 01:34:56 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 01:57:35 esolang idea: an esolang where leaking memory and having allocations fail is the only way to do conditionals 01:59:36 ais523\unfoog: OK, let's write that in esolang list of ideas. 02:00:22 I have been told that LLVM does not target old ARM architectures. It is not too much of a problem, since GCC can still target them. 02:00:43 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:01:47 -!- Bike has joined. 02:02:24 ARM are still called RISC even though the new ones are more complicated. 02:02:43 do they have an "evaluate polynomial" instruction? 02:03:13 I don't know, but I don't think it has something like that; only I know VAX has evaluate polynomial, I think. 02:05:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 02:06:35 RISC just means "not x86" now ;P 02:09:46 I program in notx86 all the time! 02:09:54 notx86 is the best language 02:13:43 kmc: Why did they do that? 02:14:19 RISC is in the name of ARM though. 02:15:34 pikhq: Yes I know but still the new ones are more complicated, having not just one but many instruction sets, and various other features added on 02:16:16 but it's still "reduced" from the vax, so it's all good 02:16:50 In modern parlance "RISC" refers to ISAs that use a load/store architecture, no? 02:17:28 well i would say it refers to a whole set of architectural features 02:17:33 i.e. without really ludicrously complex addressing modes, like x86 is known for... 02:17:43 ARM has some fairly complex addressing modes 02:17:51 Hrm, right. 02:17:51 and x86's aren't that complex 02:18:01 ARM has pre/post increment/decrement which x86 lacks 02:18:27 but x86 lets you do things like INC a memory address, which RISC processors typically avoid 02:18:39 And has a strcpy opcode. 02:18:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:18:54 though you need something like that for concurrency primitives 02:19:05 atomic test-and-set is also a memory read and a write together in the same instruction 02:20:35 6502 also has increment a memory address (it lacks a increment accumulator instruction!), and VAX even has increment immediate. 02:21:00 increment immediate, really? is it self-modifying, then? 02:23:22 Yes, if the program is stored in RAM it may, I suppose, do so. It sets the flags too so it might be useful for that purpose too. 02:24:43 dang. 02:30:45 (RogueVM also can use (non-short) immediates as a destination, by using the PC post-increment addressing mode. I think this is similar to how VAX does it.) 02:33:02 6502 does have increment X register and increment Y register, but cannot increment A register; but, instruction for addition is only usable with A register. 02:36:19 -!- monqy has joined. 02:43:03 by that standard, AMD64 also has store immediate, increment immediate, etc. 02:43:56 incb (%rip); .byte 0xc2 02:44:55 rip %rip 02:46:00 ARM is interesting because they added various features specifically to combat weaknesses of RISC 03:01:49 i think increment/decrement address modes are an example of that 03:02:18 otherwise you have to load, add, store, and it just sucks 03:04:15 -!- augur has joined. 03:08:10 kmc: That fourth operation is the worst. 03:21:25 the sucking one? 03:21:40 hm but what i said isn't very accurate 03:21:46 because your counters should be in registers anyway 03:27:59 i am the wrost 03:28:35 i watched Star Trek: TNG for the first time the other day 03:29:09 Fair warning, TNG honestly varies from awesome to suck. 03:29:47 How'd you like whatever episode you saw? 03:30:14 we had some expert nerds select a 3-episode cycle 03:30:21 well okay "select 3 episodes" 03:30:55 That probably helps. 03:30:56 I watched all of Star Trek a few years ago. It took about a year. 03:31:10 (in chronological order) 03:31:15 we watched "Clues", "The Measure of a Man", and "The Inner Light" 03:31:38 -!- FreeFull has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:31:43 Perfect selection. 03:32:17 i didn't much care for the second one 03:32:24 "clues" was good and "inner light" was great 03:32:59 "The Inner Light" is often considered the best episode of TNG. It is inarguably a great one. 03:33:15 yeah it's pretty cool 03:33:24 That selection is overall great for giving you a feel of what the series is like. 03:33:31 excellent 03:33:38 i have the whole series stashed away on a hard drive somewhere 03:33:42 maybe it's time for a marathon 03:34:42 "clues" had a cool idea but the structure was kind of weak 03:35:01 Beware: season 1 sucks horribly, and season 2 varies ("Measure of a Man" is one of the better ones)... 03:35:23 they don't really get very far in unraveling the mystery before data is just like "ok, here's what happened" 03:35:37 Should I watch these? 03:36:18 The show really got into its stride after Roddenberry's death, TBH... 03:36:18 you should watch "The Inner Light" at least 03:36:23 shachaf: In short, yes. 03:37:02 Especially The Inner Light. Hugo Award winner. 03:37:30 A brilliant series of TNG remixes (to be watched in order): http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9CCCF2C09E92679B 03:38:05 One of three Trek episodes so awarded. (the other being "The Menagerie", the only TOS two-parter, and "All Good Things...", the TNG finale) 03:38:17 ("All Good Things..." is an amazing episode, but don't watch it yet.) 03:39:00 kmc: Another one I recommend is "Darmok". 03:40:36 Has everyone watched Babylon 5? 03:40:47 No; it's in my giant queue 03:41:32 ℚ 03:42:12 Q 03:43:01 It’s a rare show in that they had a great five-year story in advance instead of inventing the story as they go. 03:43:21 One of my absolute favorites. 03:43:56 that's cool 03:43:58 i should watch that too 03:44:20 kmc: You may also enjoy DS9. There might be a modicum of enjoyment from TOS and TAS. VOY and ENT will make you want to drink all the alcohol. 03:45:06 that sounds hazardous 03:45:19 It's better than remembering. 03:46:24 B5 can seem to start a little slowly (especially since you don’t realize all the apparently insignificant things that are preludes to big events later on) but after watching enough of it you’ll surely find it worth it. 03:46:37 don’t realize the first time you watch it, that is 03:47:00 And the episode "Threshold" will make you omit the middlemen and simply give yourself a brainectomy. 03:48:48 Be sure to watch Star Trek: The Animated Series, the pinnacle of the franchise. 03:49:07 I wouldn't say that. 03:49:19 It's decently written, but the animation is hilariously bad. 03:49:42 pikhq: is threshold the one that got retconned out instantly? 03:49:44 It also does weird things to the setting if you accept it as canon. 03:49:46 coppro: Yes. 03:50:21 M’Ress making random noises while talking http://youtu.be/jjGhYexrJ0c 03:50:21 Among other things, TAS imports parts of Known Space into the setting. 03:51:13 Also, the coloring is sad. ... The guy in charge of chosing the colors of things was literally color blind. 03:52:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdQwE6VK1hg 03:52:40 fan 03:52:41 fucking 03:52:42 tastic 03:53:53 Haha, i had forgotten Threshold was *that* episode. Yeah, it was horrible. :-D 04:06:41 aw, they're not making that spinoff of The Office starring Dwight and his wacky Nazi uncle, after all 04:07:02 i was looking forward to finding out just how bad it would be 04:08:41 I have everything from S06E20 still in the queue. 04:11:00 -!- krzysz00 has joined. 04:12:03 I wrote this over the last few days. Your thoughts? https://github.com/krzysz00/singl 04:13:28 i see a spec for a language but not a high-level overview of why it's interesting 04:13:35 good languages (esoteric and otherwise) usually have both 04:13:57 You have a point there, kmc. 04:15:29 krzysz00: It is OK, I think. Still you should also have what kmc request too 04:19:23 I have an esolang but its spec is uncomputable. 04:19:33 tswett: You know what else is uncomputable? 04:37:19 All non-standard models of the natural numbers? 04:43:44 somebody's mom? 04:49:49 shachaf: the busy beaver function? 04:50:23 Busy beaver is very computable 04:50:28 Slereah: no it isn't 04:50:37 Isn't it? 04:50:43 It has been a while 04:50:43 no 04:51:07 suppose you had a TM which could compute busy beaver 04:51:46 then you could create a machine which took as input another machine, determined its size, and ran it for BB(n) steps; if it halts, then it accepts, otherwise it fails. 04:51:51 then you've solved the halting problem 04:53:21 in fact this demonstrates that any upper bound for BB(n) is uncomputable 04:53:31 so we can say that it grows faster than any computable function 04:53:33 which is kinda crazy 04:54:15 so, how are exact values (for BB on really simple machines) known? 04:54:28 or are those just lower bounds? 04:54:36 some of them are exact 04:55:05 you enumerate all the different turing machines of that size and prove that they halt or don't 04:55:23 isn't that a procedure, then? 04:55:47 no because you can search for larger and larger proofs forever 04:56:22 exactly 04:56:26 that is, given the size of the machine, you have no computable bound on the size of a proof that it halts or doesn't 04:56:40 Given a fixed n, you can compute BB up to n 04:56:49 but no turing machine can compute BB for arbitrary n 04:56:58 FSVO "you" 04:57:21 well, that's a bit clearer. The whole thing always sort of confused me. 04:57:46 of course I have a book with a graph of the kolmogorov complexity of numbers as a function, maybe I should focus on that confusingness first. 05:03:48 ohhh i think there is something deeper going on here 05:04:45 say i have a turing machine M. in one thread i run M, and in another thread I enumerate all possible proofs that M doesn't halt, and check them one by one 05:04:52 why doesn't this solve the halting problem? 05:04:55 i think the answer is 05:05:27 for any (r.e.) axiomatic system of talking about turing machines, there is some machine which doesn't halt, such that you can't prove it doesn't halt within your system 05:05:36 basically by gödel's incompleteness theorem 05:05:53 Bahahah. 05:06:12 (or else the system is inconsistent, but in that case it doesn't agree with the meta-theoretic definition of "halt" and so is useless) 05:06:42 How do you enumerate the possible proofs that M doesn't halt? 05:07:24 [minBound..] 05:07:25 the proofs are just strings in some formal system; you can enumerate strings easily enough 05:08:08 But there are infinite such proofs 05:08:43 sure, but they are recursively enumerable 05:08:54 yeah, but how do you know your system will halt? 05:09:07 because every machine either halts or doesn't (on a given input) 05:09:14 so either there exists a computation history showing it to halt 05:09:19 or there exists a finite proof that it doesn't 05:09:27 but it's the second statement which is wrong 05:09:30 yeah 05:09:44 because even though the "proof exists" informally, you can't nail it down in any particular formal system 05:09:48 not even 05:09:54 whichever formal system you choose, some machine will escape you 05:09:56 coppro: Either the machine M halts, or the search for a proof that M doesn't halt, halts. 05:09:58 example: write a TM which enumerates theorems of ZFC and terminates when it finds a proof or disproof of CH 05:10:16 Except that by Gödel's incompleteness theorem, the second is not necessarily the case. 05:10:20 Yes, you get the idea. 05:10:33 I think? 05:10:46 yeah, i'm not sure if that is the same thing or different 05:10:47 so any r.e. axiomatic system has turing machine halting proofs independent of it? 05:10:48 err, sorry, a proof of CH 05:11:14 Bike: Seems like it. 05:11:19 hmm... actually, that doesn't quite work 05:11:36 but yeah, you can find a TM for which halting is independent of your axiom system 05:12:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Do not mix astrology with drinks containing caffine, alcohol or water.). 05:13:41 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=710 maybe this is what I'm thinking of 05:17:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:34:09 do you know which form of transit is still operating well in New York? boats! 05:34:21 even the IKEA boat is already back in service 05:34:51 ikea has a boat? 05:35:21 yes 05:35:30 rad 05:36:26 the ikea in NYC is somewhat inconvenient by bus or train 05:36:31 but it's right on the water 05:36:45 so they run a free shuttle boat 05:37:29 clever 05:37:38 good to have cheap furniture during the apocalypse 05:38:30 except then people started using it for commutes and whatever 05:38:37 so now it's $5 to go to IKEA, but you get a $5 gift card 05:38:43 and you have to show a receipt on the way back 05:39:00 this is like the express buses to atlantic city that make you buy casino chips with your bus ticket 06:04:31 -!- krzysz00 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:12:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:36:31 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 06:42:20 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:43:15 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:02:26 -!- nooga has joined. 08:10:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:20:18 -!- shubshub has joined. 08:20:51 Hey guys guess what 08:21:36 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Poison <-- My new programming language 08:22:52 I finished making my new programming language (Sort of enough for release) 08:23:11 Just adding a few more things before I release 1.1 08:24:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:27:02 -!- nooga has joined. 08:27:20 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: so tired, so vomitous). 08:28:20 is this a joke shubshub 08:28:57 Dude, mediafire is legit 08:31:45 shubshub: couldn't you just paste help contents onto the wiki page? 08:34:22 Maybe in next release 08:34:37 Alright fine ill post help on wiki page 08:34:50 ill also update it to 1.1 08:42:56 you're supposed to briefly explain what the language is 08:45:27 Im going to 08:56:48 Updated along with help on wiki page 08:56:49 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Poison 09:01:36 nooga I updatred it 09:05:17 uh 09:08:01 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit. 09:18:39 not sure if troll or just a beginner ;o 09:20:19 why whats wrong with it 09:21:47 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:22:32 read other entries, like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Unlambda , http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge 09:22:40 and then read yours again 09:23:31 meh ill edit it later 09:26:58 it's not only the description 09:27:12 what makes your language interesting? 09:31:49 the fact that it uses smasller commands] 09:44:01 smaller than what? 09:44:03 python? 09:46:44 yea 09:47:05 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:47:52 what's the execution model? 09:49:28 what do u mean? 09:49:38 -+ 09:53:44 What do u mean by execution model 09:59:28 Just out of curiosity, but did you actually write if x == 'a' or x == 'A': y = str(1); elif x == 'b' or x == 'B': y = str(2); ... elif x == 'z' or x == 'Z': y = str(26)? 10:00:51 yes 10:01:14 im typed up the entire language by hand 10:01:42 anyway how did you get the py file I only posted the pyc file 10:02:38 I decompiled it; to be honest, the urllib.urlretrieve and ['runas', '/user:Administrator', x] parts seen in strings file.pyc made me a bit uncomfortable. 10:02:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:02:48 ah 10:03:39 Why would you release only the pyc file? 10:03:54 Idk cuz I didnt want it to be Open source 10:04:09 How is that useful? 10:04:18 why not 10:05:58 I added the runas admin feature for something I was doing at school 10:08:04 I Am Al 10:08:35 i am also the creator of another language called !!!Batch and also NumericBatch both of which are very unstable 10:13:00 anyway gtg 10:13:30 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:13:54 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:14:29 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:22:07 -!- mean has joined. 10:29:57 -!- allu has joined. 10:31:57 -!- allu has left. 11:16:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:47:45 -!- russkiyhuy has joined. 11:49:49 hello! preved! 11:51:21 pidorasy present today? 11:52:57 everybody ebanod dniwe? 11:56:08 -!- russkiyhuy has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 12:01:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:01:35 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:26:33 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:51:08 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:04:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:05:34 -!- mean has quit (Read error: No route to host). 13:07:00 -!- mean has joined. 13:52:21 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:52:29 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 14:00:28 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:22:35 A Slower Speed of Light Official Trailer — MIT Game Lab http://youtu.be/uu7jA8EHi_0 14:26:49 -!- elliott has joined. 14:31:14 preved medved 14:31:54 x 14:32:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:33:46 @ask monqy One day I was Bored and Decided to learn how to program in python so I went and watched some youtube videos however I didn't just want to program in Python I wanted to form my own language perhaps an easier No wait more simplistic version of Python with smaller command names And easier programming so here it is The Poison Programming Language 14:33:46 Consider it noted. 14:34:30 -!- atriq has joined. 14:34:39 Verily. 14:34:47 Verily indeed. 14:34:48 atriq: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 14:34:52 Oh, sweet 14:35:04 Verily indeed indubitably. 14:35:13 I... 14:35:17 Oh Wow it's Shubshub 14:35:19 did you get good messages 14:35:20 I had seen all those messages before 14:35:32 kmc: shubshub: the best? 14:35:39 should i make poison the featured language 14:36:02 elliott, I did see them and I downloaded Brogue and I am playing it RIGHT NOW 14:36:05 Well, not right now 14:36:08 But I have it open 14:36:24 clear() - Clear the command line screen on a Linux Computer 14:36:26 cls() - Clear the command line screen on a Windows Computer 14:36:39 ion: it's cross-platform 14:36:42 like java 14:36:51 ion: def clear(): os.system('clear') def cls(): os.system('cls') 14:36:53 ion, a specific Linux Computer, or just any 14:37:35 We need languages that let us clear other people's screens 14:37:46 The mathes eqaution commands just print the result; now I need to manually copy the intermediate result to add three numbers. :/ 14:38:08 fizzie: sounds better than mathematica 14:39:00 elliott: what about http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Ozone#Interp ? 14:39:22 Arc_Koen: apparently i said something in 2008 and then didn't do it 14:39:29 :( 14:39:34 elliott: Yeah, I hate that I have to write 1 + 2 and then Out[1] + 3 to add three numbers there. :/ 14:40:05 wouldn't it be 1 + Out[3] 14:40:22 Maybe it's that. 14:40:31 since 1+2 is 3 iirc 14:40:52 1+2 ≈ FileNotFound 14:41:20 http://sprunge.us/cCjC look I'm pulling results from the future. 14:42:06 forall x: def x(): os.system('x') 14:42:33 fizzie: Ohh, right, Out is an array. 14:42:42 ocaml doesn't like me :( 14:42:55 fizzie: It should automagically recalculate the display of the Out[n]s each time you cause them to change. 14:43:01 Like a spreadsheet. 14:43:18 I suppose the gooey version can do some stuff like that. 14:43:27 I'm trying to implement circlefuck using the circular buffer module I wrote some time ago but I need two pointers to the same buffer and ocaml won't let me do that 14:44:28 if I try including the module and adding functions to it, they don't work because they're not allowed to access the internal structure 14:47:16 1.9.2p318 :001 > def method_missing(cmd, *args) system(cmd.to_s, *args) end; echo "foo" 14:47:18 foo 14:47:54 http://amoffat.github.com/sh/ is like that 14:47:56 and is wonderful 14:48:29 Arc_Koen: have you considered changing the module 14:48:43 well, yes, I could rewrite it all 14:48:45 self = sys.modules[__name__] 14:48:46 sys.modules[__name__] = SelfWrapper(self) 14:48:48 I like the kluge. 14:48:57 but is that really a good idea? 14:49:14 my first idea was to add a function "shallow copy" or something to it 14:49:30 but it causes problem if you try to pop an item that's the front item from a copy 14:49:51 A European shallow or an African shallow? 14:49:52 Arc_Koen: all i hear is yet more arguments against mutable state :p 14:50:27 do you have any idea to avoid using them? 14:51:30 well presumably you could use a purely-functional data structure instead... maybe for circular things that's a bit of a pain though, iirc Okasaki's /Purely Functional Data Structures/ extends the language with basic lazy values for things like that 14:51:45 (though I suppose you could implement them easily as (() -> a) if you're not worried about performance) 14:52:02 that said there is probably some solution to your problem that does not involve rewriting your program 14:52:07 but I don't know OCaml, so who knows what it is 14:52:18 When I was on holiday I wrote a Hunt the Wumpus clone 14:52:21 It's awful 14:52:24 you can implement them as (() -> a) with good performance if you can close over a mutable cell 14:52:40 kmc: right 14:52:47 I guess that is nicer than exposing the mutable cell in the type 14:52:51 yes 14:52:57 which was my first idea 14:53:04 You can write it in fucking C 14:53:07 <3 functional imperative programming 14:53:17 i would like to learn Fucking C 14:53:21 Fucking C is like system F, except you're forced to be more explicit. 14:53:21 is there a relevant ISO standard 14:53:21 Jafet, how is fucking C different from regular C? 14:53:26 ISO-Fucking-9899 14:53:31 what is it you call (() -> a)? 14:53:37 Arc_Koen: The Aristocrats 14:53:39 replacing the data structure with a function? 14:53:40 Arc_Koen: haskell 14:53:53 Arc_Koen: I guess it is (unit -> a) in OCaml 14:53:58 or I guess (unit -> 'a) even 14:53:59 Arc_Koen, I think it's thunking, but everyone's gonna shout at me because I'm wrong 14:54:08 I think it's thunking about thinking 14:54:21 Who'd've thunk it. 14:54:52 Arc_Koen: anyway I was just talking about the implementation of a simple lazy value 14:55:07 to use for implementing something circular-ish in a purely-functional manner 14:55:13 though I suppose a circular buffer could work as a zipper or something instead 14:55:19 well I still have no idea what you mean 14:55:25 that's ok 14:55:35 a zipper would be fine if there weren't two iterators 14:55:40 I mean, two pointers 14:56:25 data BiZipper a = BiZipper [a] a [a] (Maybe a) [a]? 14:56:42 atriq: yuk 14:56:48 a a a 14:56:56 Yes, that is the worst 14:57:17 is Maybe a constructor similar to ocaml's None / Some option type? 14:57:31 Probably 14:57:42 data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a 14:57:58 type 'a option = None | Some of 'a 14:58:29 elliott, there are at least three birthday parties in Hexham tomorrow. What's the word on the street? 14:58:55 is there word 14:59:03 yes 14:59:08 it is 14:59:14 "slow" 14:59:26 but i dont know the word 14:59:30 One of them's a sort of surprise party for me 14:59:34 And I want to know more details 14:59:45 Except I don't actually 14:59:50 ok well atriq 14:59:52 i can tell you this 14:59:59 if there is ever word on the street i know literally none of it 15:00:14 i may, in fact, be the single worst person in hexham to ask about the word on the street 15:00:15 so 15:00:16 congratulations 15:00:18 the word on the street is "slow" 15:00:24 its a school zone 15:00:42 elliott: Are you 'in' in the Hexham party scene, though? 15:01:27 fizzie: what is the opposite of in these days 15:01:33 "out" 15:01:42 right I am "out" 15:02:55 start your own private party scene. then everyone else will be out and you will be in 15:03:11 what if i get lonely 15:03:17 -!- mean has quit. 15:03:40 then little has changed 15:04:12 :'( 15:09:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rats_with_bushy_tails 15:10:39 nice 15:16:09 A mysterious package arrived for me when I was in Ibiza 15:16:18 I have to go down to the post office depot thing to pick it up 15:20:12 how was Ibiza? 15:20:17 Boring 15:22:31 that sucks 15:25:16 kmc: you know what else sucks? 15:25:42 PHP? 15:25:49 everything 15:26:46 ∀x. x sucks 15:26:57 Hence PHP sucks 15:27:20 PHP used to be a thing, but is it still a thing? 15:27:25 Yes 15:27:27 it is sadly still a thing 15:29:09 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:32:36 earth sucks 15:33:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:34:18 -!- girafee has joined. 15:34:29 `welcome girafee 15:34:40 girafee: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:35:36 -!- girafee has left. 15:37:02 You know, we might be able to do quicker welcome messages if we didn't rely on a bot starting up a linux environment on one of Gregor's computers every time 15:37:38 pfft 15:37:51 I confused immersion with orientation today and I think I made a complete tit of myself :( 15:38:09 do you feel blue? 15:38:18 atriq: that reminds me of boltzmann brains 15:38:34 kmc, that means nothing to me 15:38:47 Phantom_Hoover, what's your sexual immersion 15:38:47 (ah, vienna!) 15:39:14 Phantom_Hoover: don't you always make a complete tit of yourself 15:39:22 elliott, no, that's me 15:39:34 atriq, homeomorphic. 15:39:59 (Pedant's note, I couldn't be bothered doing that properly.) 15:40:41 Hrm, Aphrodite? 15:40:54 elliott, no, sometimes cauchy sequences on the tit don't converge. 15:41:31 You just need to apply the squeeze test 15:42:22 these jokes are dumb guys 15:42:24 To see if the tit is contractible? 15:44:46 elliott, you would know dumb wouldn't you?? 15:46:03 no 15:54:12 atriq: what did you do in Ibiza? 15:54:22 kmc, very little 15:54:37 It was too windy to go to the beach and the wrong part of the island to party 15:55:05 well... that sucks 15:55:11 Anyone want to see how much I suck at programming? 16:08:27 apparently not 16:11:03 show us 16:11:07 let us be compleasant 16:11:36 * hagb4rd turns the light down low 16:12:19 It's time to GET A PACKAGE 16:12:27 http://hpaste.org/77161 16:12:29 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:12:36 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 16:13:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:17:22 the monster is called a wumpus 16:17:30 and where are the bats and the pits? 16:18:42 also I don't know if that's how it worked with the original game, but I believe it's better if the room numbers are attributed randomly 16:18:56 so that when you start you don't already know what leads where 16:20:02 and last thing my comments are probably irrelevant as I can't read haskell 16:24:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:44:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:46:31 http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1136.html 17:03:36 -!- atriq has joined. 17:03:38 Back 17:04:33 atriq: don't use data.array it sucks 17:04:35 - my helpful advice 17:08:46 Okay 17:08:50 Elaborate please 17:09:01 And also give thoughts on the mysterious package I recieved 17:10:21 -!- Bike has joined. 17:10:31 it sucks 17:10:34 that's my elaboration 17:10:54 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:11:02 atriq: try importing it 17:11:05 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 17:11:19 I don't know what modules it contains! 17:13:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:14:41 elliott, what would you suggest to replace it? 17:15:18 atriq: either a function, vector (from the vector package), or a map/hashmap 17:15:21 depends on your needs! 17:15:28 I'd go for a function in this case 17:16:07 you should randomise the layout tho 17:16:10 that'd be cool! 17:16:12 and dumb 17:18:27 * ion randomizes elliott’s layout. 17:18:37 Go ion 17:19:49 atriq: btw why are you using makeLensesFor 17:19:52 rather than makeLenses or makeClassy 17:20:22 I didn't know how they named them 17:21:51 atriq: they expect your fields to be named _foo and produce a lens named foo 17:22:39 Hmm 17:22:43 That isn't quite what I have 17:22:55 I have fields named foo and lenses named foo_ 17:23:52 right but that sucks 17:23:54 so i don't care 17:26:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:26:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:34:18 Okay, I've changed it 17:38:12 It now uses functions instead of arrays, and makeLenses instead of makeLensesFor 17:38:47 ok now split that one gigantic definition you have into like five 17:40:12 That's not gigantic 17:40:16 That's merely stupidly big 17:40:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:40:32 It's less than 100 lines 17:40:35 Ergo, not gigantic 17:40:45 it's gigantic 17:53:55 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:59:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:06:20 Wow, I've just been retweeted by an Internet not actually celebrity 18:06:29 Webcomic author Dan Shive 18:19:24 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 18:22:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:21 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:26:33 -!- coppro has joined. 18:43:14 -!- Vorpal has joined. 18:47:09 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:48:07 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:49:40 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:49:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:52:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:55:01 -!- Sgeo|web has joined. 18:55:31 elliott, I crossed a shachaf. Am I alive? 18:55:36 -!- atriq has joined. 18:58:56 hi 18:59:17 Oh no! 18:59:18 Aaah! 18:59:21 that was to sgeo 18:59:26 Oh thank god 18:59:29 kmc: what does this mean: mount: /my/image/im/trying/to/loop/mount.img failed to setup loop device: No such file or directory 18:59:32 *img: 19:01:16 (the file exists) 19:01:18 (so does the mount point) 19:01:25 maybe you have no loopback devices for some reason 19:01:33 strace it 19:01:37 Remember that time I installed pacman on my computer 19:01:40 That was fun 19:01:55 oh hm 19:02:01 apparently that is true kmc! 19:02:07 why don't i have a loopback device 19:02:12 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:02:16 do you have a normal udev 19:02:33 yes AIUI 19:02:42 with systemd, which I don't think matters? 19:02:49 well i don't know then :/ 19:03:05 all i know is systemd and udev merged 19:03:11 so now i don't actually have a udev package 19:03:13 it's just systemd 19:03:50 huh 19:04:01 keeping up with how linux systems work is hard 19:04:18 kmc: well it's more that they just merged the packages upstream apparently 19:04:24 and it's still buildable separately or something 19:05:49 http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-August/006066.html 19:06:01 apparently that means basically "you can use udev without systemd in the future but we're not going to make it any better" 19:09:20 hmm 19:09:34 kmc: actually maybe i do have a loopback device or something 19:09:40 i do have the loop module loaded at least 19:12:51 open("/dev/loop-control", O_RDWR) = -1 ENODEV (No such device) 19:12:52 this is puzzling 19:12:58 because 19:12:59 $ ls -lh /dev/loop-control 19:12:59 crw------- 1 root root 10, 237 Nov 2 14:25 /dev/loop-control 19:13:10 so wtf 19:14:05 oh probably you just don't have loop.ko loaded 19:14:15 kmc: i've done sudo modprobe loop about 10 times 19:14:21 haha ok 19:14:23 https://gist.github.com/3397886 apparently this person has the same issue on the same OS three months ago 19:14:25 well maybe it's fucked somehow 19:14:51 well i am sure it is fucked 19:14:53 since it doesn't work 19:14:59 anything in dmesg? 19:15:11 checked before but no 19:15:19 nothing since boot-up 19:16:42 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:16:54 $ echo hi | sudo tee /dev/loop-control 19:16:54 [sudo] password for elliott: 19:16:54 tee: /dev/loop-control: No such device 19:16:54 hi 19:16:59 so loop-control exists as a device 19:17:02 but is not a device 19:17:09 so i guess the problem is 10, 237 doesn't identify a valid decide 19:17:10 *device 19:17:12 so why not 19:17:14 it's a file but there's no device hooked up to it in the kernel 19:17:14 yeah 19:17:19 that is the mystery 19:18:40 $ lsmod | grep loop 19:18:40 $ 19:18:46 so modprobe loop didn't work i guess 19:18:48 so why didn't it complain?? 19:19:07 ok 19:19:10 sudo modprobe -v sdlfkjsdfkl 19:19:12 also outputs nothing 19:19:19 what is going onnnnnnnnnnnnnnn 19:20:49 Maybe your system has deprecated the loop device completely, in favour of dm-loop? 19:21:09 fizzie: OK, I'm willing to accept that... but why is modprobe fucked? 19:21:15 (and how would I get dm-loop working) 19:21:42 I don't even know if dm-loop ever went anywhere, I just remember there was one once. 19:22:04 dm-loop is lvm only from the looks of it? 19:22:05 I don't have lvm. 19:23:36 "sudo modprobe -v -n dosfjsdofjoidsf" doesn't even give any messages. 19:23:39 I think grep loop /proc/devices should at least definitely say if the device is there. 19:23:46 Even "modprobe foo" as non-root doesn't give me any messages. 19:23:48 What's going on? 19:24:02 fizzie: That outputs nothing, right. 19:24:15 It seems fairly obvious I need to load loop... so the problem is just that modprobe is completely broken?? 19:24:24 Maybe they deprecated modutils and it's just a dummy stub. :p 19:24:39 Well it responds to --help and everything. 19:25:08 $ sudo modprobe -v -n dosfjsdofjoidsf 19:25:08 FATAL: Module dosfjsdofjoidsf not found. 19:25:17 $ modprobe -V 19:25:17 kmod version 10 19:25:30 Your system has EVERY MODULE, that's why they all work. 19:25:54 (what's your version?) 19:26:03 "module-init-tools version 3.16". 19:26:09 -!- ogrom has joined. 19:26:11 Very different. 19:26:35 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 19:26:57 Name : kmod 19:26:57 [...] 19:26:57 Conflicts With : module-init-tools 19:26:57 Replaces : module-init-tools 19:27:00 fizzie: What's going on? :( 19:27:14 It must be some kinda thing. 19:28:04 With module-init-tools being declared a dead project by its current maintainer, a new project has stepped up to take its place: kmod. This is intended to be a drop-in replacement, though deprecated functionality in module-init-tools has not been reimplemented. 19:28:05 Hokay. 19:28:58 [[ 19:28:58 Hello, 19:28:58 While setting up a new VPS with Wheezy under a module-less kernel 19:28:58 (everything compiled-in) I've noticed that kmod's modprobe silently 19:28:58 returns 1 with no error message printed, no matter if you tell it 19:28:58 to load or unload a module. 19:29:00 ]] 19:29:02 Hokay. 19:29:19 So "modprobe loop" is, in fact, failing. 19:29:29 How is a mystery. 19:29:56 Apparently things like "diagnostics" and "any messages" are part of the deprecated functionality they've not reimplemented. 19:30:33 [[ 19:30:33 After a bit more testing using a more "standard" Debian install 19:30:33 (barebones system from current netinst with Debian standard kernel 19:30:33 3.2.0-3-686-pae) I've found out that this behavior is caused by lack 19:30:33 of /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/modules.alias.bin . 19:30:33 ]] 19:30:35 Hokay. 19:30:49 fucking linux kids 19:30:57 gotta reimplement the whole system from scratch every few years 19:31:05 because clearly the old authors were idiots and that's why nothing works 19:31:06 Except I have that file. 19:31:09 Hmm. 19:31:18 it couldn't be that nothing works because it's all reimplemented from scratch every few years 19:31:27 Do you have a loop.ko in there though? 19:31:30 this reminds me of uni computing clubs actually 19:31:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:31:35 probably no coincidence 19:31:50 fizzie: Well, um, it's a binary file. 19:31:53 I don't know how to check. 19:32:09 I guess look at modules.alias? 19:32:11 I mean, in the module dir. 19:32:21 fizzie: Oh, I have loop.ko.gz, yes. 19:32:22 alias devname:loop-control loop 19:32:22 alias char-major-10-237 loop 19:32:22 alias block-major-7-* loop 19:32:28 That's what modules.alias has. 19:32:48 kmc: it's linux... the reason usually is because the old authors were idiots 19:33:07 That sounds suspiciously reasonable. It may be lulling you to a false sense of security. 19:33:46 fizzie: I'm going to have so strace modprobe, aren't I :( 19:34:24 There weren't any of these .bin files when I last wondered about modules, around the 2.4.x series or something. There was just one ascii .dep file for modprobe and that was about it. 19:34:34 open("/lib/modules/3.6.4-1-ck/modules.dep.bin", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) 19:34:34 open("/lib/modules/3.6.4-1-ck/modules.dep.bin", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) 19:34:34 open("/lib/modules/3.6.4-1-ck/modules.alias.bin", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) 19:34:39 OK, it's upset that those don't exist. 19:34:46 Ah. 19:34:57 fizzie: Guess why it's broken? Hint: It's a really dumb reason and I feel like an idiot. 19:35:30 fizzie: Here's a hint: 19:35:36 $ ls /lib/modules 19:35:36 3.6.4-1-ARCH 3.6.5-1-ck extramodules-3.6-ARCH extramodules-3.6-ck 19:35:56 Ah ha. 19:36:10 I see some different numbers. 19:36:17 The reason is I upgraded my kernel and it removed the old one and I haven't rebooted yet. :( 19:36:28 So, uh... be right back. 19:36:36 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:48 It's a Linux system, you should always try rebooting first, it usually fixes all the problems. 19:36:53 ...wait... 19:37:48 -!- elliott has joined. 19:38:54 Okay, now it gives error messages. 19:38:59 And works when it loads loop. 19:39:56 Yay, it works. 19:40:24 -!- shubshub has joined. 19:43:54 03:44:20: kmc: You may also enjoy DS9. There might be a modicum of enjoyment from TOS and TAS. VOY and ENT will make you want to drink all the alcohol. 19:43:59 pikhq: aw c'mon, voyager is hilarious 19:44:09 so is being very drunk 19:44:59 kmc: I suspect the experiences are comparable 19:47:58 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:48:04 -!- shubshub1 has joined. 19:49:43 -!- shubshub1 has quit (Client Quit). 19:49:50 -!- shubshub has joined. 19:50:54 hi guys 19:53:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 19:55:19 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0048331 19:56:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:00:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:04:16 shubshub: your language is really bad 20:04:26 why 20:04:42 i have no idea how to articulate the reasons 20:04:51 ... 20:05:46 kmc: help me out here 20:06:45 Is shubshub the alter ego of someone here? 20:06:55 no 20:07:09 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:07:11 i didn't really look at it 20:07:12 heh 20:07:16 he's the alter ego of shubshub 20:07:18 -!- shubshub has joined. 20:07:25 kmc: here http://esolangs.org/wiki/Poison 20:08:15 this is terrible 20:08:34 why do the built-in functions have terrible short names 20:08:49 also why do you need a different function to clear the screen on linux vs windows 20:08:51 to make it easier 20:08:53 shouldn't the language hide that detail 20:09:06 Apparently the function to Perform a Mathes eqaution doesn’t return the result, it prints it. So you can’t compute a Mathes eqaution such as 2+3*4 with it. 20:09:22 wow 20:09:23 And it’s only distributed as a .pyc file, no source. 20:09:29 wow 20:09:47 to make it easier 20:09:48 ion: that's a maths equation, not a Mathes eqaution 20:09:58 don't you know about famous Mathesamatician John Mathes 20:10:06 are you one of those people who believes the difficulty of programming is proportional to the number of keys you have to push? 20:10:36 elliott: I only know about Imhotep. 20:11:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 20:11:58 Just out of curiosity, but did you actually write if x == 'a' or x == 'A': y = str(1); elif x == 'b' or x == 'B': y = str(2); ... elif x == 'z' or x == 'Z': y = str(26)? 20:12:03 yes 20:12:07 im typed up the entire language by hand 20:12:15 can u please stop quoting me 20:12:23 ion: If Jean stands exactly one nautical mile away from Lord Scotland, how tall is Imhotep? 20:13:05 pikhq: I dare not compute that, lest i suffer the Helvetica scenario. 20:13:17 ion: It's easy! 20:13:19 can u please stop quoting me 20:13:34 And there's no calcium involved, so no fear of Helvetica. 20:13:35 u: Please stop quoting shubshub. 20:13:53 freenode -- u: No such nick/channel 20:15:28 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Poison&oldid=32167 20:16:01 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Poison&oldid=32171 As you can see Poison takes less coding to do Hello World :D 20:16:43 what do u mean 20:17:17 you realise you wrote that sentence not ion right 20:17:38 yes 20:18:02 Why did you switch from Ruby to Python in the middle of implementing Poison? 20:18:19 Cuz I didnt like ruby that much 20:18:19 And why does the Python implementation not have hgWorld("True")? 20:18:52 And what does the g stand for? 20:19:15 hold on let me think 20:19:56 Ah 20:20:08 hgWorld stands for Hello/Goodbye World 20:20:23 ok i take it back poison is my favourite language 20:20:30 really 20:21:17 yes 20:21:20 why 20:21:23 does hgWorld("False") print "Goodbye World !"? 20:21:33 shubshub: well why did you make it 20:21:37 hello, goodbye, world. it's very minimalistic.. though it may be not TC 20:21:39 no but I Believe hgWorld("False") did 20:21:40 some questions nobody can answer 20:21:56 shubshub: you literally just said the exact same thing as Bike 20:22:12 oh sorry i didnt read it properly 20:22:30 elliott: He describes why he made it in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Poison 20:22:46 ion: well 20:22:49 ion: i wasn't counting that 20:24:52 what about hgWorld(True) and hgWorld(False) though 20:24:54 what do those print 20:25:05 And how about hgWorld("Foo")? 20:25:12 ... 20:25:55 !!! 20:26:05 ¿¿¿ 20:27:38 ok.but i miss the two_power_eight(bool use_division_instead_of_power) function 20:45:04 Maybe I should redo my language with better commands or something 20:45:09 i strongly recommend removing hoovers blog entry from the topic. we should encourage folks with a positive attitude. show them where to look among the garbage and the flowers 20:45:24 that's not even Phantom_Hoover's blog post 20:45:49 doesn't change much 20:46:20 (that blog entry is a joke) 20:47:33 really? sry i forgo to take my meads 20:52:17 shubshub: It’s perfect the way it is. 21:25:57 -!- mindlessDrone has joined. 21:32:08 -!- monqy has joined. 21:46:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:47:14 `welcome noooooooooooooooooooooodl 21:47:17 noooooooooooooooooooooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:47:31 Thanks 21:47:37 `welcome nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodl 21:47:41 nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 21:47:44 i dont think you feel sufficiently welcomed yet 21:47:49 `WELCOME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL 21:47:52 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 21:48:37 "THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA"????? 21:49:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism 21:49:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:49:30 `? esoteric 21:49:30 Astral projection, crystal healing, the Bible, you know. 21:49:33 This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. 21:49:40 Gregor: :) 21:49:55 `WELCOME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL 21:49:58 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 21:50:05 Though if you make an astral projection-based programming language, this is probably the appropriate place. 21:50:15 Indeed! 21:50:16 man, do you guys seriously get visited by "that kind" of people often enough for that to be in the welcome message 21:50:21 yes 21:50:27 Yup. 21:50:29 ouch 21:50:34 `WELCOME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL 21:50:35 nooodl: It's not *exceptionally* common, but it's sufficiently common that it's necessary, yes. 21:50:37 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: 21:50:40 elliott: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP 21:50:43 nooodl: do you feel welcome yet asshole 21:50:47 Gregor: it's ok i know nooodl 21:50:52 i'll never 21:50:52 stop 21:50:58 For everyone ELSE'S sake X-D 21:51:02 `WELCOME nooodl 21:51:03 those people dont have souls 21:51:03 Twist: nooodl *is* "that kind" of people. 21:51:05 anyawy im going 21:51:05 ​NOOODL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS 21:51:28 elliott: lambdabot has lens now 21:51:38 We should buy the TLD “esolangs” so that http://esolangs will work. 21:51:56 We should buy the protocol “esolangs” so that esolangs: will work. 21:52:18 esolang:/esolang/esolang/esolang?esolang#esolang 21:52:25 how much does a protocol cost 21:52:32 host an irc server on there too 21:52:47 however much it takes to bribe browser developers 21:53:02 /server esolangs 21:53:14 Heheh 21:53:23 We should build our own Internet. 21:53:29 With booze and hookers and esolangs. 21:53:30 nooodl: エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 21:54:23 pikhq: ありがとう 21:55:05 `learn wercome エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 21:55:08 I knew that. 21:55:15 Gregor: :) 21:56:15 `run echo -e '#!/usr/bin/perl -w\nif (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? wercome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "wercome"; }' > bin/wercome; chmod a+x bin/wercome 21:56:17 No output. 21:56:20 `wercome pikhq 21:56:24 pikhq: wercome エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 21:56:30 ... >_< 21:56:57 `run echo 'エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ)' > learndb/wercome 21:56:59 bash: learndb/wercome: No such file or directory 21:57:04 Grr 21:57:23 `run echo 'エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ)' > wisdom/wercome 21:57:27 No output. 21:57:31 `wercome pikhq 21:57:34 pikhq: エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ!詳しく、ウィキを見て: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。(他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ) 21:57:43 That took more effort than it deserved X-D 21:58:25 lol 21:58:25 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:58:26 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 21:58:38 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:01:08 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:01:58 `rm bin/wercome 22:02:01 No output. 22:02:11 elliott: lambdabot has lens now 22:02:15 doesnt lens use a ton of common names 22:06:59 Exactly. 22:07:53 > ("hello","world") % zipper % down _1 % fromWithin traverse % focus .~ 'J' % rightmost % focus .~ 'y' % rezip 22:07:55 ("Jelly","world") 22:08:01 well isnt that bad then 22:08:04 kmc: "pretty crazy huh" 22:08:15 lambdabot should just import every single package on hackage 22:08:27 great 22:08:36 so how does this gel with edwardk updating lens every 2 days 22:08:40 and lambdabot being updated every 0 22:08:45 they should patch GHC so that if there's a name conflict, it picks the one with the most complicated type 22:09:04 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:09:06 elliott: I think you mean me updating lens every 2 days. 22:09:09 elliott: https://github.com/ekmett/lens/graphs/impact 22:09:12 `learn bonvenon Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-o: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) 22:09:15 I knew that. 22:09:21 "true esoteric" 22:09:21 esperanto? 22:09:26 yeah 22:09:39 Um, shouldn't we have tervetuloa? 22:09:47 And however you say "welcome" in Hexhammish. 22:09:58 esperanto is the "pointless brainfuck derivative" of constructed languages 22:10:07 What’s Lojban? 22:10:11 malbolge 22:10:14 i dunno 22:10:19 esperanto just seems pointless 22:10:19 malbolojban 22:10:25 there are already so many romance languages 22:10:29 they're pretty regular and easy to learn 22:10:35 and people actually use them 22:10:39 :t (^.) 22:10:42 forall s a t b. s -> Getting a s t a b -> a 22:10:47 i dont understand Mutator 22:10:53 lojban is binary lambda calculus 22:10:53 where does it ever get specialised to Mutator 22:10:54 Mutator = Identity 22:10:56 where does it ever get specialised to Mutator 22:10:59 "it's so 'simple'!" 22:11:01 so that it appears in errors 22:11:03 elliott: ^. doesn't use Mutator 22:11:07 er 22:11:08 kmc: But there are too many of them. Let’s make one that everyone can use! I’m sure everyone will switch to that one. 22:11:10 :t (^=) 22:11:11 forall s (m :: * -> *) a e. (Integral e, Num a, MonadState s m) => SimpleSetting s a -> e -> m () 22:11:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:11:19 ok 22:11:20 i guess esperanto makes more sense in the 19th century context where all of europe hates each other and is super proud of their own shitty local things 22:11:24 SimpleSetting uses Mutator 22:11:24 so where does Mutator come into play 22:11:29 type SimpleSetting s a = Setting s s a a 22:11:30 does it? 22:11:36 type Setting s t a b = (a -> Mutator b) -> s -> Mutator t 22:11:40 type Setter s t a b = forall (f :: * -> *). Settable f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 22:11:41 oh 22:11:41 type Setting s t a b = (a -> Mutator b) -> s -> Mutator t 22:11:43 it's a "politically neutral language that transcends nationality" 22:11:43 ok then 22:12:18 elliott: Do you like Bazaar? 22:12:35 i want a language that transcends rationality 22:12:41 also 22:12:45 i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead 22:13:33 kmc: Can you do those things? 22:13:40 I, even I, can play dead 22:14:04 But can you rationalize transcendentals? 22:14:13 doubtful 22:14:22 Time to gette some sleepe. 22:14:22 whats wrong with bazaar 22:14:45 elliott: Well, there was a strictness bug in holesOf. 22:14:52 Now it's fixed. 22:14:57 But can you make it more safe?! 22:15:10 more safe howso 22:15:17 holesOf :: LensLike (Bazaar a a) s t a a -> s -> [Context a a t] 22:15:17 holesOf l a = f (ins b) (outs b) where b = l sell a f [] _ = [] f (x:xs) g = Context (g . (:xs)) x : f xs (g . (x:)) 22:15:28 ins :: Bazaar a b t -> [a] 22:15:28 ins (Bazaar m) = getConst (m (Const . return)) 22:15:28 {-# INLINE ins #-} 22:15:34 outs :: Bazaar a a t -> [a] -> t 22:15:34 outs (Bazaar m) = evalState $ m $ \c -> state $ \cs -> case cs of [] -> (c,[]) (d:ds) -> (d,ds) 22:15:40 `learn välkommen Hej och välkommen till den internationella knutpunkten för design och distribution av esoteriska programspråk! För mer information, se vår wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (För den andra sortens esoterism, pröva #esoteric på irc.dal.net.) 22:15:42 See that? 22:15:43 more safe howso 22:15:43 I knew that. 22:15:55 elliott: It's using lists! 22:16:03 who cares 22:16:08 looks total to me 22:16:17 whats the problem 22:16:35 unsafePartsOf :: LensLike (Bazaar a b) s t a b -> Lens s t [a] [b] 22:16:35 unsafePartsOf l f a = unsafeOuts b <$> f (ins b) where b = l sell a 22:16:38 unsafeOuts :: Bazaar a b t -> [b] -> t 22:16:39 unsafeOuts (Bazaar m) = evalState (m $ \_ -> state unsafeUncons) 22:16:50 The point is it's ugly. :-( 22:17:31 howso 22:17:43 how would you write it 22:18:06 I don't know. 22:18:20 newtype Bazaar a b t = Bazaar { _runBazaar :: forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> f t } 22:18:22 looks fine to me 22:18:27 problem if anything is in the functions using it 22:18:29 so fix them 22:18:32 define your own f i guess 22:19:07 The *problem* is that there's no type safety, elliott! 22:19:12 "start caring plz" 22:19:45 i don't see how there's no type safety 22:20:53 Well, it's using regular lists, so how can you guarantee that it'll have the same number of elements? 22:21:50 data Bazaar a b t = forall n : Nat. Bazaar ((n -> b) -> t) (n -> a) 22:21:59 I have written some things on some paper I think there is some ways to make something like it having list of same number of elements, depending what you are doing with it there is the way. 22:24:54 shachaf: but whats wrong with bazaar's definition 22:25:13 Nothing's wrong with *Bazaar*. 22:25:18 Just the functions that are using it. 22:25:20 Is that the right and left bazaar? What is it? 22:25:35 zzo38: What's a left and right bazaar? 22:26:00 shachaf: so change the functions, not bazaar 22:26:11 elliott: I never said anything about changing Bazaar. 22:26:22 just define your own f that works as both Const and State 22:26:32 shachaf: I don't know, it is why I asked. 22:26:49 elliott: OK, how? 22:26:58 kmc: Can you believe there was once a time when you cared about crazy types like that? 22:27:17 But I thought it was something like, newtype Bazaar a b t = Bazaar { _runBazaar :: forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> f t } being the right bazaar and data Bazaar a b t = forall n : Nat. Bazaar ((n -> b) -> t) (n -> a) being the left bazaar, or something like that. 22:28:06 shachaf: well there's such a thing as applicative product.... 22:28:16 zzo38: Those are isomorphic. 22:28:33 Er wait. 22:28:42 shachaf: so just use product of const and state? 22:28:45 data Bazaar a b t = forall n : Nat. Bazaar ((Fin n -> b) -> t) (Fin n -> a) 22:28:52 elliott: Which is what? 22:28:59 shachaf: What is Fin in here? 22:29:08 shachaf: Product (Const a) (State b) 22:29:22 zzo38: Fin n = natural numbers < n 22:29:41 data Bazaar a b t = forall n : Nat. Bazaar (Vect n b -> t) (Vect n a) 22:29:45 shachaf: OK 22:30:53 O so that is how they work, OK. 22:31:11 Sorry for my category error before. 22:31:19 elliott: What's that? 22:31:24 what's what 22:31:31 Product blah blah 22:31:35 Can you write out the type? 22:31:50 Im rebuilding my language 22:31:55 Also how does it help? 22:31:57 here is a new command 22:31:59 cat("This is a cat program", math(9, 9, "*")) 22:32:47 shachaf: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/transformers/0.3.0.0/doc/html/Data-Functor-Product.html 22:33:24 shubshub: this language is the one taped onto python right 22:33:32 yea 22:33:44 I'm not sure how that'll help. 22:33:52 why would you write math(9, 9, "*") instead of 9 * 9 22:33:55 well you can combine in and out 22:33:57 nooodl: it's shorter 22:33:58 less typing 22:34:01 that's what poison's good at 22:34:02 elliott: oh 22:34:16 you know what would be really rad 22:34:27 !!!python, numeric python, maybe numeric python 22:34:27 monqy: what 22:34:30 good 22:34:48 monqy: do you like Bazaar 22:34:51 no just no monqy 22:34:57 what's bazarre 22:35:14 monqy: it is spellt bizaar!!! 22:35:19 no it's not 22:35:29 bezoar 22:35:49 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:36:38 monqy: oh drat, you caught me 22:37:33 monqy: data Bazaar a b t = Buy t | Trade (Bazaar a b (b -> t)) a 22:37:34 yes 22:37:36 -!- mindlessDrone has left. 22:37:58 what's that 22:38:22 data Bazaar a b t = forall n : Nat. Bazaar (Vect n b -> t) (Vect n a) 22:38:47 ok 22:38:56 what does it do 22:39:20 traverse 22:39:42 ok 22:39:51 now do you like it 22:40:13 yes 22:40:25 monqy: Bazaar a b t = forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> f t -- REAL DEFINITION 22:40:39 newtype Bazaar a b t = Bazaar { _runBazaar :: forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> f t } -- ACTUAL REAL DEFINITION 22:41:41 are you sure 22:41:45 you seem to be changing your mind a lot ! 22:42:06 monqy: it's a medical issue :'( 22:42:07 those are all equivalent 22:42:10 changeminditis 22:42:21 hi copumpkin 22:42:23 hi 22:42:23 monqy: A New And Much More Improved Interpreter For !!!Batch has Been developed It is Called !Py!Batch: Download It Here: http://www.mediafire.com/?9zx97k7zl04xk67 22:42:35 nooodl: i've seen that 22:42:35 copumpkin: I fixed the holesOf bug! 22:42:40 what bug? 22:42:59 It was too strict. 22:43:12 "no longer !" ! 22:43:20 So you you can use it on infinite lists and what not. 22:44:24 monqy: http://codepad.org/jThI4mnL !!! 22:44:36 hello 22:44:43 line 9 is the !!!Python code 22:44:52 !!!Python = !Python 22:44:56 even in intuitionism !!! 22:44:58 imo "exec e('')" is part of it 22:45:53 thhe encoding of the future 22:49:53 ... 22:50:02 hi 22:50:03 hi 22:50:34 hi 22:50:53 hey remember that time we all set our names to some variation of "monqy" and said hi like a billion times 22:51:00 me neither 22:51:12 hi 22:51:35 nobody is innocent 22:51:55 that's ok because that means you're not innocent 22:51:59 partner in crime 22:53:01 hi? 22:53:40 olsner: hi. 22:53:58 elliott: hej! 22:54:17 hoi 22:54:26 sup 22:54:54 soup? no, no soup 22:57:12 oh, macgyver ran long enough to have episodes taking place after the wallfall 23:13:01 hmm, what previously appeared to just be poor attention to keeping up the german accent, might actually be in-character 23:15:09 I made a game with backgammon and chess together http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSbackgammonches 23:31:08 monqy: Is "shachaf" a variation of monqy? 23:33:45 shachaf: yes, it's the rot13 of monqy 23:34:10 uh oh 23:34:12 ^rot13 monqy 23:34:13 zbadl 23:34:20 see, shachaf 23:34:26 elliott: Where's oerjan? 23:34:29 I miss oerjan. 23:34:38 All we have is this cheap knock-off. 23:35:52 ꙮrjan 23:36:30 @∀rr 23:36:31 Unknown command, try @list 23:36:32 oerjan?? 23:36:35 oerjan! 23:36:42 o oerjan 23:38:07 I bet he'll never come back. 23:38:39 How much money do you want to bet? 23:39:06 I'll bet you one Bazaar function. 23:39:16 kmc: Did you read _The Bottle Imp_? 23:39:38 2012-10-11.txt:07:53:38: -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: See you in a few days if I survive). 23:39:38 By Robert Louis Stevenson. 23:39:38 2012-10-11.txt:07:56:19: -!- oerjan has joined #esoteric. 23:39:38 2012-10-11.txt:07:57:09: Just realized I probably shouldn't imply that I expect not to survive hospital :P 23:39:38 2012-10-11.txt:07:57:12: -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 23:39:44 I think it's the only thing of his that I've read. 23:40:03 elliott: :-( 23:40:06 shachaf: Maybe you shouldn't make jokes about oerjan dying. 23:40:29 @tell oerjan sorry 23:40:29 Consider it noted. 23:40:33 -!- nooga has joined. 23:40:44 Hmm. 23:40:47 So it's been almost 20 days. 23:40:55 That's... not reassuring. 23:41:03 er, s/almost/over/ 23:41:18 Maybe I should try to get in contact with him. 23:41:56 You should. 23:42:12 what if he just doesn't want to be here? 23:42:22 impossible 23:42:47 olsner: that's perfectly possible... I never said I was going to drag him kicking and screaming back to the channel. 23:44:05 he wouldn't be kicking and screaming if you chain and gag him first 23:45:20 I guess I will just send him an email. 23:45:40 caulk 23:46:39 "Instead of taking up your entire Gmail window, clicking Compose now opens a smaller window at the bottom of your screen." 23:46:40 oh good. 23:46:43 just what i always wanted. 23:47:38 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 23:50:26 shachaf: no, what is it? 23:50:46 what happened to oerjan? 23:50:59 A short story. 23:51:07 I remember enjoying it years ago but that was years ago. 23:51:11 Maybe I should read it in English. 23:51:38 the story of oerjan? 23:51:51 kmc: last time he was in the channel was: 23:51:54 2012-10-11.txt:07:53:38: -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: See you in a few days if I survive). 23:51:54 2012-10-11.txt:07:56:19: -!- oerjan has joined #esoteric. 23:51:54 2012-10-11.txt:07:57:09: Just realized I probably shouldn't imply that I expect not to survive hospital :P 23:51:54 2012-10-11.txt:07:57:12: -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 23:52:13 probably he's just recovering or whatever 23:52:21 but it's getting on close to a month now 23:52:23 elliott: Did you try to get in contact with him? 23:52:35 shachaf: what 23:52:38 i said that like a few minutes ago 23:52:47 it takes time to do things 23:58:18 Hmm, he last edited the wiki on 27 October. 23:58:20 i guess it doesn't help that from what oerjan's told us he's pretty recluded 23:58:23 So... no need to worry, I guess. 23:59:04 unless he set up a bot to make it look like he was alive? 23:59:34 I bet he's logreading this right now 23:59:38 Phantom_Hoover: Come on. 23:59:39 AREN'T YOU ØRJAN