< 1351728298 538909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Know Anything About Baseball < 1351728386 871938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the one area where nerds -- usually a fairly intellectual lot -- are extremely proud of ignorance < 1351728393 663678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it so in all countries or just the USA? < 1351728493 809563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, outside USA and Japan *no-one* knows what baseball is < 1351728567 57695 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose nerds might be more proud of that ignorance though < 1351728578 467140 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to simply not caring about it < 1351728592 756322 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sports in general i mean < 1351728618 229149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :baseball's just on my mind because San Francisco won at baseball and now all the nerds in San Francisco are loudly proclaiming how much they don't know or care about baseball < 1351728637 33389 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't actually realise san fransisco won < 1351728646 585209 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a coincidene < 1351728648 182235 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c < 1351728652 100882 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's san francisco? < 1351728662 649224 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1351728664 678900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: some baseball thing i think < 1351728674 190651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a player? < 1351728760 309356 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's a type of base < 1351728770 994223 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Some other countries play baseball. Japan managed to get other bits of Asia in on it, and it's apparently pretty common in the Carribean. < 1351728820 403064 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this clip will make it clear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElAcu-1dlPM < 1351728820 564777 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can't comment about the ignorance: I don't actively *follow* most sports, but I'm not exactly ignorant on them. < 1351728823 401462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nsfw language) < 1351728846 985936 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hell, I've been known to nerd out on the origins of (American) football and its relation to other games) < 1351728878 958913 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also enjoys watching football, so. *shrug* < 1351728891 61802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the irony (?) < 1351728894 645303 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sports fans are sports nerds < 1351728898 837813 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, i never understood nsfw language < 1351728914 52153 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean ffs you shouldn't be listening to videos at work with speakers on < 1351728920 601566 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the most part? Yeah, it's just nerding out about sports instead of something else. < 1351728959 814914 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsfwu < 1351728964 253439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: people do though < 1351728965 950268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1351728976 68531 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to have been fairly safe for wu though, so that's not funny < 1351728976 559263 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially given that for most spectator sports, 99% of the audience doesn't actually *do* the sport in question. < 1351728990 485500 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in any capacity, obviously) < 1351728996 938969 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thanks, I think I understand san francisco now < 1351729002 258770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :baseball in particular is all about the stats and the obsessive knowledge of past games and teams < 1351729011 103987 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1351729017 455453 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, in that case your workplace is either so relaxed I can't believe someone's going to flip out over some cursing, or you deserve what's coming to you anyway. < 1351729042 232659 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yeah, baseball in particular is a land of statistical analysis. < 1351729055 313360 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brrrr stats < 1351729114 44711 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't care if people care about baseball or are ignorant of baseball < 1351729162 329367 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just finding it an interesting cultural phenomenon. < 1351729186 387643 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That smarter people go "sports -- eeew" as a *rule*. < 1351729199 930614 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no what i mind is people who are conspicuous about their ignorance and proud of it < 1351729211 299743 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah. Well. Yes, there is that. < 1351729218 971644 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pride in ignorance is sad. < 1351729231 294465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a rule that whenever spots are brought up, you have to be the loudest in proclaiming your utter contempt and ignorance of sports < 1351729233 587626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1351729235 889700 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lest you be branded as one of Them < 1351729256 647667 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the aspects of "nerd culture" which I think derives directly from middle school bullying or something < 1351729264 463423 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1351729286 91059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: r < 1351729291 76192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1351729297 668352 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I might end up having to watch the rest of deadwood now... all because of wu < 1351729300 522113 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ティ < 1351729319 974010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can you explain san francisco to me? < 1351729322 236003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't watch the video < 1351729368 812503 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott go vote in the distributor election < 1351729378 888844 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I really can't do it as well as wu does < 1351729383 749290 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1351729385 179538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: isn't it all votes for you? < 1351729392 149781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i do that i'd have to like email taral though and ugh < 1351729394 708127 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, go vote for President of the World. < 1351729405 682887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i vote comex < 1351729414 437972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1351729416 344861 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one vote for me, one vote for scshunt, one vote endorsing me, two present, endorse Google Groups, and denounce Google Groups :p < 1351729417 42943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vote olsner < 1351729427 340983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well i dont think anyone actually cares about the vote < 1351729429 813639 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :deadwood is fucking brilliant < 1351729435 413402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure why you're even voting at all < 1351729440 175727 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just don't want to arbitrarily declare myself the winner < 1351729454 992449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well you can arbitrarily declare yourself the winner by having taral decide you'd be good to give the lists :P < 1351729466 947655 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I started a vote because I felt it was an appropriately Agoran way to do things :p < 1351729468 572250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could vote for you though < 1351729472 850788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not right now, too lazy < 1351729490 668357 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: yw < 1351729501 979228 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything a regex can do that a finite list of greedy string substitutions can't? < 1351729503 780252 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ? < 1351729507 813669 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: voted for you < 1351729512 347983 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But there's only Obama and Romney! < 1351729512 732375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1351729515 40171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll vote coppro then < 1351729520 392703 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1351729690 125723 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you already voted me < 1351729745 337291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no this is for distributor silly < 1351729774 762304 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :voting for sillies? < 1351729883 281433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1351729925 367974 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1351730021 434182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Epsilo wow what a page < 1351730025 8300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps this should be deleted < 1351730102 215353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw < 1351730112 524166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know why ctrl+alt+fN might not work to switch to vts < 1351730116 199099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been like this a while for me! < 1351730192 98712 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351730197 695790 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351730258 244740 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey elliott do you think i should follow this link to accounts-google-com-id189134acx-ssl-k-emailrenew77.idns.pl and put in my gmail password < 1351730263 634560 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems legit right < 1351730274 304365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1351730282 67965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: google is the most famous polish company < 1351730301 264486 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1351730305 720051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has ssl right there in the name! < 1351730308 304903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :secure! < 1351730346 357375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emailrenew77 ... if the previous 76 renews got lost, they might give up trying to renew your email any moment < 1351730454 306978 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351730459 693092 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351730647 446513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know :( < 1351730656 107094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i know what < 1351730664 104314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why ctrl+alt+fN might not work to switch to vts? < 1351730686 462047 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you've remapped those keys in X then you have to use the remapped ones < 1351730730 853109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't remapped them at all < 1351730732 430165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't do shit < 1351730850 748203 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Confirmation process complete.. Click here to Continue to your Gmail < 1351730889 360749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just put q in all the fields < 1351730893 15448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i SCAMMING the SCAMMERS???? < 1351730895 904992 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put “test”. < 1351730934 494814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does that make YOU a SCAMMER? < 1351730939 650447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you SCAMMING the YOURSELF? < 1351730941 738957 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :scammer² < 1351730955 798212 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :contravariant scammer < 1351730956 200829 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s scammers all the way down. < 1351731102 21136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait did you actually visit that url < 1351731105 249408 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been there < 1351731108 564847 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the good sense to stay away < 1351731117 486803 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see if you can SQL inject it < 1351731158 360412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what url ?? ? < 1351731203 907408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1351731267 676542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can tell it's fake because it doesn't require you to check the "I agree to the Google Terms" checkbox. < 1351731284 481935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the malware will aim heck your linux system < 1351731286 563809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont visit the page!!! < 1351731304 418998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "2 l8" :'( < 1351731322 199894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway seriously does anyone know why vt switching is fucked < 1351731331 37836 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should upgrade to lens 3.1 < 1351731336 448568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it helps i am using kms < 1351731339 361449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel graphics < 1351731381 211188 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So guys, you know how there's no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely determines the natural numbers? < 1351731404 66475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tswett < 1351731410 603393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone had been repeatedly saying that for the past week or so < 1351731410 765687 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: No number greater than about 30 is natural. < 1351731412 377039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I would know that < 1351731437 653573 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm. I'm not so sure about that. < 1351731440 609048 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 30 a natural number? < 1351731451 649683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1351731456 425091 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about 32? < 1351731462 547621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1351731468 380229 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about 31? < 1351731473 451999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1351731479 278422 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 is quite unnatural indeed. < 1351731482 366612 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about 31 + 1? < 1351731485 620297 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1351731492 798517 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1351731502 373609 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the natural numbers closed under addition? < 1351731511 906062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Are you thinking of the axiom "every natural number has a successor"? < 1351731518 876635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was mistranscribed from the original. < 1351731527 106394 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1351731529 417915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original is "every natural number (except 31) has a successor". < 1351731536 946008 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1351731537 162828 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1351731543 194546 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they are, in fact, not closed under addition? < 1351731553 389895 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That depends on what addition is. < 1351731561 582951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 has a successor < 1351731563 918033 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mindblower is that the “31” in the original text is in base-8. < 1351731564 681154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not a natural successor < 1351731565 596339 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1351731584 732011 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I prefer wording it as "Every natural number that is not 31 has a successor" < 1351731591 237111 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's clear that it doesn't preclude 31 having a successor < 1351731601 321549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, that's not right. < 1351731605 614364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 *doesn't* have a successor. < 1351731610 496522 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's define n + 0 as n, and n + (the successor of m) as the successor of (n + m). < 1351731636 893880 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then clearly 31 + 1 is undefined, since it would be the successor of 31. < 1351731651 915662 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Well, you have to prove that a natural number N isn't 31 before you can say things like "the successor of N" < 1351731658 207766 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1351731664 888190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you have to prove it's not 0 before you can say "the predecessor of N". < 1351731681 864629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fix my ghc bug :'( < 1351731697 37078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1351731718 946522 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's add another axiom. < 1351731731 723704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7364 < 1351731762 767139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw zfc is inconsistent guys < 1351731762 931148 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exists an operation @ such that for all natural numbers a, b, c, and d, if a @ b = c @ d, then a = c and b = d. < 1351731776 81682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett.gimli.moed++ < 1351731782 668312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that axiom looks rejectable < 1351731803 909173 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Maybe it's consistent with the axioms we have so far. < 1351731810 650805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dont wrorry!! hes not talking about @ < 1351731813 768083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "@" < 1351731838 996325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that isn't a funny joke though < 1351731851 433080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1351731917 801620 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/5147243 - I think these are the axioms we're dealing with. < 1351731922 381808 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know much about accordions? < 1351731952 151111 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to whom? < 1351731966 37357 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is zero, 2 is successors for n != 31, 3 is successors for n = 31, 4 is the predecessor of 0, 5 is that succession is a bijection, and 6 is the @ operation. < 1351731978 597480 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :≠ < 1351732031 115018 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this system might be inconsistent. < 1351732051 271699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You just had to go and add that weird axiom, didn't you? < 1351732069 635214 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, yes. How else are we supposed to represent ordered pairs of natural numbers as natural numbers? < 1351732097 375851 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the type of @? < 1351732113 149739 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nat -> Nat -> Nat, I guess. < 1351732121 456295 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I should have specified that. < 1351732144 720397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make sense. :-( < 1351732159 239432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think @ is just fine < 1351732165 764695 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider the natural numbers 0 @ 0, 0 @ 1, 0 @ 2, ..., up through 0 @ 31, as well as 1 @ 0. Assume that 0 @ 0 = 0, 0 @ 1 = 1, 0 @ 2 = 2, ..., up through 0 @ 31 = 31. Then 1 @ 0 can't be any natural number, so we have a contradiction. < 1351732168 771078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because tswett does not restrict natural numbers to 0 and successors of natural numbers < 1351732175 333038 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's annoying < 1351732176 923151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ can just create natural numbers that are not the successor of anything < 1351732180 702243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1351732183 777655 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, good point. < 1351732196 90519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance < 1351732199 669235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could give back 32 < 1351732206 586691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereby 32 i mean the number that is not the successor of 31 < 1351732213 257324 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, 5? < 1351732219 293655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 is a number < 1351732224 532530 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we *do* assume that every natural number is either 0 or the successor of a natural number, though, we simply have to go through all 32! permutations there, and we can show that our system is inconsistent. < 1351732228 545395 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get a different set of natural numbers depending on the left side of @ < 1351732228 768196 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not the successor of 31. < 1351732234 296699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: but why would you assume that < 1351732240 801148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to break mathematics??? < 1351732243 543573 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is (0@1) + (1@0) < 1351732259 379266 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm trying to bend it as far as it will go without breaking it. < 1351732270 733432 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys are so boring :/ < 1351732323 984092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: Let's make things more interesting by defining a new esolang! < 1351732325 606107 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking it'll have about 8 operations. < 1351732330 635320 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1@0 could be 0 + aleph < 1351732332 861208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite sure what they'll be yet. < 1351732337 619250 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 1@1 would be 1 + aleph < 1351732343 240149 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :By aleph < 1351732348 418233 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :By aleph I mean aleph zero < 1351732363 199708 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about 2@0? < 1351732379 135073 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: One of them is @ < 1351732389 955067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: What does @ do? < 1351732399 704499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1351732410 220613 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2@0 would be 0 + theconstant + theconstant < 1351732418 618863 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 0 + 2*theconstant < 1351732436 638976 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no < 1351732567 6611 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, supersedes all lesser operating systems and gives you a sensual massage < 1351732567 167947 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351732594 699375 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/5147243 - okay, we've added an axiom and clarified an axiom. < 1351732598 873075 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This new system is inconsistent. < 1351732599 360765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayan_(accordion) are pretty the future, huh? < 1351732601 724955 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1@0 is larger than any 0@x < 1351732609 425143 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :2@0 is larger than any 1@x < 1351732611 128265 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on < 1351732616 861163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define larger < 1351732635 126931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a type of beer, right? < 1351732635 427399 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Why are you only going up to 31? < 1351732648 735987 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well, how high would you go? < 1351732662 997068 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Like yo momma < 1351732666 891451 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, suggn. @'s name should be bayan < 1351732672 922044 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I wouldn't have an upper limit < 1351732674 196569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: why < 1351732682 262076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you can't just have all the integers. < 1351732688 35964 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accordion, that's why < 1351732690 788577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's greedy as fuck. people like you disgust me!! < 1351732698 583184 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I mean, you have to stop *somewhere*. < 1351732714 690273 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder if you could declare 31 as its own successor < 1351732723 4353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just saturated arithmetic no < 1351732733 594586 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let's see, how can we make our system consistent. < 1351732745 701650 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the inconsistency? < 1351732752 964195 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The successor of 31 is 31.5. The successor of 31.5 is 31.75. < 1351732753 769831 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why use the boring old definition of consistency anyway < 1351732763 203133 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, it's possible to prove that every natural number is equal to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, or 31. < 1351732776 614802 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that none of these numbers are equal to each other. < 1351732815 35910 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1351732817 692299 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351732818 693306 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: in http://pastie.org/5147243? Given a set of 32 different natural numbers, you can prove that there are no natural numbers different from all of them. < 1351732825 129948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351732861 444011 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1351732869 630889 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do these rules forbid an x where S(x) = 0 < 1351732878 496556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1351732880 709631 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Axiom 4. < 1351732882 920115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. 0 is not the successor of any natural number. < 1351732891 298453 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1351732893 505207 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missed that one < 1351732904 180873 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hang on. < 1351732914 515092 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe these axioms aren't inconsistent after all. < 1351732947 967564 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you shouldn't be calling them natural numbers < 1351732948 846994 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 as the "standard" natural numbers. < 1351732955 198788 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's call them... < 1351732965 950957 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chafian numbers. < 1351732974 520792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You *did* see ion's remark, right? < 1351732978 210956 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 31 as the "standard" Chafian numbers. < 1351732993 274435 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what remark was that? < 1351732994 833579 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any value defined for 1@1 < 1351732996 89593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351733005 936249 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the @ operation needs to be fleshed out further < 1351733008 434729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The natural numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 31 < 1351733015 457803 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although < 1351733016 757088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Right? < 1351733020 861901 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1351733022 188552 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: well, yeah. Axiom 6. There is a natural number a @ b, for all a and b. < 1351733039 917091 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: But that doesn't say what the natural number would be < 1351733067 48874 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, see. Perhaps there exists a natural number, let's call it i, such that iterating the successor function on i never gets you a standard Chafian number, and iterating the successor function on a standard Chafian number never gets you i. < 1351733112 285617 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can disprove that. < 1351733119 91214 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are right < 1351733137 665457 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call the non-standard Chafian number 33 < 1351733157 173623 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe 32 < 1351733177 773833 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. What would we call the predecessor of its predecessor? < 1351733202 616056 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should just call it i. Then we can speak of numbers like i + 5, and i - 480, and so on. < 1351733217 412806 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sounds right. < 1351733227 460145 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we can't have 32 without 3 and 7 conflicting < 1351733235 665523 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe we could have i < 1351733278 698479 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have to be on a different ring < 1351733289 870310 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I think we have a model of these axioms. < 1351733328 308642 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even with i < 1351733330 901221 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the set {0, 1, 2, ..., 31} union {i + n where n is an integer}, such that 0 and S are defined in the obvious ways, and then @ is defined just however. < 1351733334 431226 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you see any inconsistency? < 1351733347 181125 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, these axioms are consistent. There's a model of them. < 1351733380 198591 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was an axiom stating there were only 32 chafian numbers, then it might be inconsistent < 1351733384 273399 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as it stands < 1351733388 296981 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1351733435 894466 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, this seems to raise a question: what is i + i? I don't think this model admits a consistent definition of addition. < 1351733459 734483 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, neither does the set {0, 1, 2, ..., 31}. < 1351733475 177198 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a @ b could be defined as b + a*i < 1351733486 506077 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you need to define + and *. < 1351733490 385634 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1351733517 747839 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you defined + in terms of successors < 1351733519 353464 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1351733523 547877 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it wouldn't work < 1351733682 489279 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what axioms do we want + to obey? < 1351733761 143454 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want 0 + a = a + 0 = a. We want a + b = b + a, and (a + b) + c = a + (b + c). < 1351733777 859794 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we want a + 1 = S(a) for all a ≠ 31. < 1351733826 654440 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these new axioms consistent? < 1351733862 915951 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can now posit a Chafian number corresponding to every natural number. < 1351733867 220781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1351733882 407594 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all Chafian numbers corresponding to natural numbers 32 or greater are non-standard. < 1351733898 237707 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351733918 342979 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, but does this work? 32 is not 0, so it has a predecessor. Call it P(32). < 1351733970 723992 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :P(32) is clearly not 31. This means that P(32) + 1 = 32. However, 31 + 1 = 32 as well. < 1351734038 736904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1351734046 80614 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett! < 1351734048 902434 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing! < 1351734076 664461 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I'm trying to do as much math as I can with the Chafian numbers. < 1351734086 967917 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chafian numbers? < 1351734099 900443 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. "Natural numbers" as defined here: http://pastie.org/5147243 < 1351734102 919233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:23 The natural numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 31 < 1351734127 529286 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's impossible for + to satisfy zero-is-identity, commutativity, associativity, compatibility with the successor function, and bijectivity. < 1351734162 305233 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont follow < 1351734245 978910 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the axioms at http://pastie.org/5147243 are consistent. < 1351734256 198022 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to add more axioms, defining arithmetic and stuff. < 1351734284 905837 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: There is no 31 + 1 < 1351734293 937812 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there is no S(31) < 1351734327 930725 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure these are truly consistent < 1351734328 710385 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: where does the standard Z/32 arithmetic break down? < 1351734350 702969 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I gave a model of it. < 1351734353 193581 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :< tswett> It's the set {0, 1, 2, ..., 31} union {i + n where n is an integer}, such that 0 and S are defined in the obvious ways, and then @ is defined just however. < 1351734354 736381 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: oh? < 1351734359 579111 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If P(0) was 32 and S(32) was 0 then it would be standard modular arithmetic < 1351734368 912739 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than the @ stuff < 1351734388 366908 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah. I said that "32 is not 0, so it has a predecessor", but maybe 32 *is* 0. < 1351734389 415238 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well i suppose you could define trivial models like {*} < 1351734397 14865 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that wouldnt work < 1351734401 651696 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{*,31} < 1351734413 996733 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 32 isn't 0 < 1351734429 77413 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: can you prove that? < 1351734449 692571 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351734451 281752 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't prove either way with these axioms < 1351734475 485211 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever the definition of + is, 16+16 wouldn't be a standard Chafian number < 1351734523 707900 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could forget about having + < 1351734525 62721 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw 7 and 4 say the same thing < 1351734546 909199 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more or less < 1351734551 902214 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you contradicting yourself? You said you can't prove that 16 + 16 ≠ 0, but you also said that 16 + 16 is not a standard Chafian number, didn't you? < 1351734585 605439 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1351734592 929446 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am contradicting myself < 1351734598 407498 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{0,31} work for S(0) = 31 < 1351734603 781262 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it satisfies up to 7 < 1351734605 603020 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously + is ill-defined right now < 1351734605 862096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am contracting m'self. < 1351734611 492611 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't prove anything about it < 1351734615 382681 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is also definable < 1351734630 790119 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lemme check if any @ can satisfy 8 < 1351734726 524658 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/5147243 - okay, here are our axioms now. < 1351734740 218195 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure we can prove that 31 + 1 = 0. < 1351734763 16250 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could define addition in following way: x + 0 = x x + y = S(x) + P(y) < 1351734820 516536 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1351734827 290159 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im confident, actually, that 8 is unsatisfiable < 1351734844 131793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1351734850 631160 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let 32 = 31 + 1. Suppose 32 ≠ 0; then, by axiom 7, the predecessor of 32, P(32), exists. By axiom 3, P(32) ≠ 31. Therefore, by axiom 14, P(32) + 1 = 32. This means that P(32) + 1 = 31 + 1, so, by axiom 15, P(32) = 31. This is a contradiction. < 1351734852 146406 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel < 1351734856 424853 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, 31 + 1 = 0. < 1351734857 381242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1351734858 769202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pigeonhole, no? < 1351734864 476354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett added 7 < 1351734865 584956 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah pigeon hole i think will work < 1351734874 109429 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 32^2 pairs of natural numbers (a,b) < 1351734874 270793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have the necessary infrastructure for pigeonhole though < 1351734881 310576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have the necessary infrastructure for pigeonhole though < 1351734885 218646 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1351734887 590452 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1351734890 456840 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Those axioms don't state what happens when you have something like 3 + 4 < 1351734892 38140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was at Phantom_Hoover < 1351734892 721574 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axioms 1 through 8 are consistent. You can't prove that there are only 32 natural numbers. < 1351734901 336603 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually there arent 32^2 pairs < 1351734902 991723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah < 1351734916 668157 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: sure they do. 3 + 4 = 3 + (3 + 1) = (3 + 3) + 1. < 1351734918 946118 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres (k+1)^2 pairs < 1351734923 154611 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some choice of k < 1351734932 191601 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually k+2 sorry < 1351734954 1632 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the model might identify things that you dont identify in the axioms < 1351734954 783845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: so when augur said yes he actuall ymeant no < 1351734961 494549 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, i meant yes < 1351734962 41144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually meant < 1351734963 994660 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You didn't put anywhere that x + y = x + P(y) + 1 < 1351734971 303667 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351734978 417309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well i do not see how you can prove it from those axioms < 1351734985 831283 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yes, but I put somewhere that x + S(y) = x + y + 1. Axiom 14 says so. < 1351735003 328457 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :14. For all a ≠ 31, a + 1 = S(a). < 1351735020 909635 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if there are (k+2)^2 pairs of numbers, and @ is an endomap on the (k+2) elements of Nat < 1351735029 80909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: "if there are (k+2)^2 pairs of numbers" < 1351735029 242756 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think axioms 1 through 15 are no longer consistent. I think you can prove that i = i + 32, and that i ≠ i + 32. < 1351735030 478204 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then @ is not injective < 1351735034 327551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you cannot prove there are only 32 chafian numbers < 1351735035 750424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :going by those axoims < 1351735037 365500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*axioms < 1351735038 58105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaict < 1351735042 709203 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i never said there were only 32 < 1351735045 208951 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why i said k+2 < 1351735047 598946 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep up, kid < 1351735051 683413 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: so, there are infinitely many Chafian numbers. < 1351735052 566874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you cannot prove there are only N chafian numbers for any constant N < 1351735061 102014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being condescending < 1351735078 548128 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and you need to stop not reading what i say < 1351735090 239158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: have fun < 1351735090 718769 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes, thats true. if there's infinitely many it might work < 1351735094 923121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow no shit < 1351735099 380739 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thanks. < 1351735099 901146 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for finite N it pigeonholes < 1351735100 63258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think there being infinitely many might have been.... < 1351735101 238702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point??? < 1351735120 241349 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving that i = i + 32. That's easy: i = i + 0 and 0 = 32. < 1351735136 771529 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did you prove 0 = 32 < 1351735143 805271 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: there is no + in these axioms < 1351735161 604716 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: 21:54:10 EDT. < 1351735168 380182 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: these axioms? http://pastie.org/5147243 < 1351735176 325679 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of bullshit time is EDT < 1351735176 487446 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Axioms 10 through 15 are about +. < 1351735183 454586 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I have no idea. < 1351735190 16273 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you added some axioms, ok < 1351735192 148768 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:54:10 < tswett> Let 32 = 31 + 1. Suppose 32 ≠ 0; then, by axiom 7, the predecessor of 32, P(32), exists. By axiom 3, P(32) ≠ 31. Therefore, by axiom 14, P(32) + 1 = 32. This means that P(32) + 1 = 31 + 1, so, by axiom 15, P(32) = 31. This is a contradiction. < 1351735192 410188 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt see that < 1351735225 354980 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 32 doesn't = 31 + 1 though < 1351735243 477063 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1351735247 426425 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me read the whole thing < 1351735282 581145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1351735317 529652 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, proving that i ≠ i + 32. We know that i + 32 = i + 1 + 1 + ... + 1, where there are 32 1s. Since all of those numbers are undefined, this means that i + 32 is the 32nd successor of i. < 1351735323 840074 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means that i is the 32nd successor of itself. < 1351735328 193690 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: You've proven that 32 ≠ 31 + 1 < 1351735334 784007 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not that 32 = 0 < 1351735360 644765 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I said at the beginning, "Let 32 = 31 + 1". I think said "suppose 32 ≠ 0". I then derived a contradiction. < 1351735389 852003 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this proves that 32 = 0. < 1351735429 412798 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, i being the 32nd successor of itself. Is that actually impossible? < 1351735445 978631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly possible if 32 = 0, surely < 1351735470 649587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: anyway can't i just be S(i) < 1351735476 234078 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ok, what you've proven is that either 32 = 0 or that 32 ≠ 31 + 1 < 1351735477 564748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see that forbidden in the axioms < 1351735489 114145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: you do not seem to understand what a definition is < 1351735495 274076 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: and 32 = 31 + 1 by definition; therefore, 32 ≠ 0. < 1351735495 552682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sequence of digits "32" has no meaning in itself. < 1351735500 523034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett defined 32 as meaning 31 + 1. < 1351735506 691569 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe i can be S(i). < 1351735506 987248 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: The axioms don't state that 32 = 31 + 1 < 1351735516 660049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so you actually do not understand what a definition is < 1351735530 591161 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: okay, replace 32 with 31 + 1 in this entire conversation, forever. < 1351735543 118010 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I've proven is that either 31 + 1 = 0, or that 31 + 1 ≠ 31 + 1. < 1351735554 1262 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The axioms don't state anything about what 31 + 1 would be < 1351735568 704985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just proved what it is tho < 1351735570 228073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using: the axioms < 1351735572 465579 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let me repeat my theorem a third time. < 1351735615 342775 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose 31 + 1 ≠ 0; then, by axiom 7, the predecessor of 31 + 1, P(31 + 1), exists. By axiom 3, P(31 + 1) ≠ 31. Therefore, by axiom 14, P(31 + 1) + 1 = 31 + 1. This means that P(31 + 1) + 1 = 31 + 1, so, by axiom 15, P(31 + 1) = 31. This is a contradiction. < 1351735625 799740 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :If 31 + 1 ≠ 31 + 1 then it could be not a Chafian number < 1351735653 740245 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor could it be anything whatsoever. < 1351735694 976990 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's late at night < 1351735713 773695 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is. < 1351735727 585725 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: your theorem has a flaw < 1351735727 830069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: how long until you have to specify the logic you're using < 1351735731 876361 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me take two 300-microgram tablets of melatonin. < 1351735734 608830 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: first-order logic. < 1351735738 754883 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :About six seconds. < 1351735763 530758 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it does? < 1351735825 493964 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ok, ok, I see it < 1351735849 379926 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a contradiction because of axiom 3 < 1351735885 920406 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1351735927 138013 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, you're right < 1351735972 87882 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Does this mean that all chafian numbers smaller than 0 or larger than 31 are equal to 0? < 1351736055 722019 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does one of the axioms imply uniqueness or something like that? This might be used to prove that there are only 32 unique chafian numbers < 1351736096 486674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define larger < 1351736118 624197 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, depends on how you define "larger". < 1351736126 959303 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :x + 1 is larger than x < 1351736157 949584 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actualyl < 1351736168 869956 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't prove all chafian numbers are equal to zero < 1351736200 479079 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 + 1 + 1 would be the same as 1, not the same as 0 < 1351736261 794693 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :All assuming 32 = 31 + 1 < 1351736289 798167 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I can still see nonstandard chafian numbers < 1351736317 28714 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see < 1351736364 551955 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x + 1 is larger than x" isn't satisfied by any total orders, since 31 + 1 = 0. < 1351736434 873514 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, just well-order the thing < 1351736475 83782 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose i ≠ 0; By axiom 7, P(i) exists. By axiom 2, S(i) exists < 1351736490 267532 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all models of the Chafian numbers have 32 elements, if that's what you're asking < 1351736495 982816 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can be repeated for the value P(i) and the value S(i), extending infinitely in both directions < 1351736496 246054 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there exists a model that does < 1351736502 881496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO infinitely < 1351736505 907910 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed, we're just defining i as "a non-standard number". < 1351736508 754284 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :At no point you will encounter a standard chafian number < 1351736512 894272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1351736514 825950 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: right. < 1351736527 505990 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: doesn't axiom 8 imply that there are no finite models of the Chafian numbers? < 1351736554 56960 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with axiom 6. < 1351736555 369406 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: 0 could be larger than 31 < 1351736586 712603 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1351736590 831324 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: yeah, but you can't consistently have... let me have lambdabot tell you. < 1351736596 963030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: what is axoim 7 < 1351736598 587605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*axiom < 1351736600 403642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1351736603 429556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes after axiom 3 < 1351736605 993247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before axiom 4 < 1351736606 667397 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, chafian numbers are almost but not quite mod32 < 1351736610 106420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chafian ordering?? < 1351736624 525598 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "You can't consistently have " ++ concat [show n ++ " < " | n <- [0..31]] "0." < 1351736625 663863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char] -> [GHC.Types.Char]' < 1351736625 848761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1351736633 165499 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "You can't consistently have " ++ concat [show n ++ " < " | n <- [0..31]] ++ "0." < 1351736633 328905 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Ok, how about this < 1351736635 258396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "You can't consistently have 0 < 1 < 2 < 3 < 4 < 5 < 6 < 7 < 8 < 9 < 10 < 1... < 1351736642 742939 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: S(x) is larger than x < 1351736647 496539 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1351736657 504443 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since there is no S(31), there is no number larger than 31 < 1351736657 666461 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that seems consistent. < 1351736667 608550 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could be larger than 31. < 1351736681 550576 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: totally forgot about those >< < 1351736692 37808 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so yeah, you definitely have nonstandard ones < 1351736707 410165 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1351736713 48760 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :your axioms are stupid < 1351736722 516742 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally someone speaks sense < 1351736726 546348 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(0) = 31 is allowable as a model of the Chafian numbers < 1351736752 997780 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: wait, no, that's not consistent. Every nonstandard number is the 32nd successor of itself. < 1351736753 948659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all're still talking about this? < 1351736761 379028 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: not necessarily < 1351736761 860669 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not with the axioms disallowing it < 1351736762 771393 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 31 is defined as the 31st successor of 0. < 1351736767 252839 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: no it's not < 1351736788 183947 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, I'm adding another axiom saying it is. < 1351736816 632143 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/5147243 < 1351736820 996082 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :16. 1 = S(0), 2 = S(1), 3 = S(2), ..., and 31 = S(30). < 1351736827 941677 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes. < 1351736856 422936 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the axioms numbered weirdly? < 1351736881 790611 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want them to be presented in a logical order, but I don't want to renumber any of them. < 1351736901 69029 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora Nomic gets along well that way. < 1351736931 507581 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you show that i would be the 32nd successor of itself? < 1351737005 201484 :QuaeroVeritatis!ad188947@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.24.137.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351737024 857540 :QuaeroVeritatis!ad188947@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.24.137.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello all < 1351737035 106424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome QuaeroVeritatis < 1351737040 784489 :QuaeroVeritatis!ad188947@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.24.137.71 PART :#esoteric < 1351737046 76277 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuaeroVeritatis: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1351737048 995313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fuck you < 1351737091 538013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome shachaf < 1351737094 823465 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1351737100 930919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: thx :') < 1351737105 52626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one's ever welcomed me before. < 1351737623 914785 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME shachaf < 1351737627 559786 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHACHAF: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1351737674 34658 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wELCOME tswett < 1351737676 965962 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wELCOME: not found < 1351737682 93464 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :i FEEL SO UNWELCOME. < 1351737739 808047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1351737765 500848 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Can you show i = S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(i)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) < 1351737778 985034 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I don't believe so. < 1351737807 745305 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1351737844 384312 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i is the 32nd successor of itself only if by 32 you mean the chaffian number 31 + 1 < 1351737860 477385 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used 16 Ss there, not 32 of them. < 1351737884 645185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, what's the difference < 1351737885 272313 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "32nd successor", I mean the successor iterated 32 times, where "32" is the ordinary natural number 32. < 1351737904 668940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we just establish 32 wasn't a natural number hours ago < 1351737927 250381 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :We did, but then we changed our definition of "natural number" to be not stupid. < 1351737935 181532 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not sure we really have a definition of "natural number". < 1351737942 259662 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Woops < 1351737957 702138 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, there's no definition of "natural number" in first-order logic that does not also admit things that aren't the natural numbers. < 1351737970 660801 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(S(i)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) < 1351737992 342679 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're perfectly definable in second-order logic, aren't they? But I don't know what the semantics of second-order logic are. < 1351738001 325695 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a number that isn't a surreal number? < 1351738012 41632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define number < 1351738020 252598 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imaginary numbers are not surreal numbers. < 1351738042 778400 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cardinal numbers are only sometimes identified with ordinal numbers. < 1351738074 961112 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cardinal numbers are ordinal numbers < 1351738091 520097 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all ordinal numbers are cardinal numbers < 1351738183 370867 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right about imaginary numbers not being surreal numbers I think < 1351738183 531615 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351738192 281669 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351738193 163655 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1351738234 707552 :ssue!u5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pggnfsfgxixgvpqc QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1351738241 661901 :ssue!u5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dlsvhviakmyossaq JOIN :#esoteric < 1351739028 246646 :Sgeo|web!a7ce4365@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.67.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351739065 494539 :Sgeo|web!a7ce4365@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.67.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hibye im alive < 1351739094 478422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: are you drunk < 1351739122 744414 :Sgeo|web!a7ce4365@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.67.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was in a rush < 1351739144 442129 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's worse < 1351739145 574046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the second time we have been told Sgeo|web is alive recently < 1351739158 154555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not to die < 1351739192 989241 :Sgeo|web!a7ce4365@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.67.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in any danger. except for crossing streets. < 1351739216 494971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't cross sts Sgeo|web < 1351739270 838477 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351739329 339502 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, Bike. < 1351739363 297553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hike. < 1351739364 561983 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, tsett. < 1351739453 266428 :Sgeo|web!a7ce4365@gateway/web/freenode/ip.167.206.67.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1351739582 177275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bad if i can't stop laughing at sgeo right now < 1351739605 683357 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1351739614 897882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of bad < 1351739626 592426 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1351739626 899055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo crossed a saint. < 1351739631 829666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to do that. < 1351739632 469712 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple dozen millihitlers. < 1351739646 120375 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between 40 and 50. < 1351739656 712325 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, as I was saying. < 1351739658 523339 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1351739694 325152 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know how there's no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers? And, in particular, the Peano axioms, in first-order logic, admit multiple models? < 1351739697 982419 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one of those models is computable. < 1351739712 945646 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can kind of define the natural numbers as "the computable model of the Peano axioms". < 1351739756 700829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hear there's no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers < 1351739765 467754 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1351739777 749108 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in particular, the Peano axioms, in first-order logic, admit multiple models. < 1351739781 644526 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb question time: a model is computable if it's a recursive set? < 1351739782 700120 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only one of those models is computable. < 1351739795 264517 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's the meaning I had in mind, yeah. < 1351739999 692317 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1351739999 692602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: a computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the booleans < 1351739999 692708 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351739999 692793 :glogbot!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1351740005 852108 JOIN :#esoteric > 1351740009 979319 JOIN :#esoteric > 1351740010 495307 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351740011 61173 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1351740028 475121 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351740086 513715 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, those exist. < 1351740128 325328 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exist Booleans x and y such that x ≠ y. There do not exist Booleans x, y and z such that x ≠ y, y ≠ z, and x ≠ z. < 1351740145 765381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well then! < 1351740148 912860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: just do the same thing for naturals < 1351740164 302265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there exist naturals x and y such that x =/= y. there exist naturals x and y and z such that x =/= y =/= z. there exist ... < 1351740264 615958 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There do not exist naturals a_0, a_1, ..., a_n such that a_0 ≠ a_1, a_0 ≠ a_2, ..., a_0 ≠ a_n, a_1 ≠ a_2, a_1 ≠ a_3, ..., a_1 ≠ a_n, ... ... ..., a_(n-1) ≠ a_n? < 1351740270 986369 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some uncountable natural number n? < 1351740275 905607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes. < 1351740298 464057 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand "uniquely", is this something with ordinals < 1351740365 24211 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: if a computable set of axioms has the natural numbers as a model, then it also has other things as models. < 1351740387 176320 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things like what? < 1351740476 540165 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_model_of_arithmetic < 1351740477 739553 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those. < 1351740495 184741 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, those things that I don't understand... thanks. < 1351740497 181766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: did you know: < 1351740502 919488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely determines the natural numbers < 1351740505 860707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1351740512 311237 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I should just read more boolos or somefin < 1351740514 109842 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tru fax" < 1351740528 871934 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hm. I think I remember somebody saying that before. < 1351740535 108900 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shadow fax < 1351740679 401699 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the Peano axioms + the negation of Goodstein's theorem is like. < 1351740704 731798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the Peano axioms + the negation of Godwin's law? < 1351740710 424196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that's unthinkable. < 1351740972 406611 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the Peano axioms + the negation of Goodstein's theorem < 1351741186 17707 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let i be the smallest number such that the Goodstein sequence G(i) is infinite. < 1351741277 189929 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must be very large, of course. < 1351741289 132176 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :O kay < 1351741296 645095 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So large, in fact, that ZFC tells you there's no such thing. < 1351741306 450558 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let's ignore the fact that i doesn't exist. Is it even or odd? < 1351741339 504771 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously neither is provable in peano arithmetic < 1351741354 639154 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless adding the axiom made it inconsistent, in which case both are provable < 1351741370 984324 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem obvious to me. < 1351741377 642105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote But let's ignore the fact that i doesn't exist. Is it even or odd? < 1351741380 598754 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :874) But let's ignore the fact that i doesn't exist. Is it even or odd? < 1351741385 800018 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Goodstein's theorem is trivial for odd numbers or something. < 1351741416 331966 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can prove that for any n, G(n) is a natural number < 1351741435 708180 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't prove anything about i, because it doesn't exist < 1351741453 174962 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but what can you prove about it within the Peano axioms? < 1351741470 337524 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, it doesn't exist < 1351741487 491037 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the contrary, you can prove that it's greater than 3. < 1351741496 256167 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes. < 1351741501 485516 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather: that if it exists, it's greater than 3. < 1351741525 288090 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since its existence is somehow an axiom, you don't need that bit < 1351741533 809102 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1351741538 138285 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be possible to prove it even or odd < 1351741547 197697 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving it to be both would be interesting < 1351741581 982590 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would mean that your system is inconsistent. And it isn't. < 1351741608 497376 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could be inconsistent < 1351741609 729417 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1351741618 898454 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anyone knows < 1351741628 55352 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't it only be inconsistent if peano was inconsistent? < 1351741639 87116 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Kirby–Paris theorem states that it is, in fact, consistent. < 1351741658 543088 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that... < 1351741664 323944 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1351741672 617357 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that it is neither provable nor unprovable in peano arithmetic < 1351741676 657025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well PA could be inconsistent < 1351741689 411125 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the sense that adding it or its negation won't cause the new axioms to be inconsistent < 1351741712 45362 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentzen showed that PA is consistent, sort of < 1351741719 175163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the "sort of" is the rub < 1351741739 958587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edward Nelson had an attempted proof of PA inconsistency recently < 1351741746 145293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turned out to be flawed < 1351741839 968543 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you know if you've exceeded my little brother in age yet? < 1351741855 207014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, how old is he < 1351741889 490988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Theorem: Nelson's proof can't be right. < 1351741889 538027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof: The formal system within which Nelson carries out his proofs requires a theory of syntax. This theory is surely at least as strong as PRA. So: < 1351741889 538201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) If Nelson's proof is right, then it follows that Nelson's proof is wrong." < 1351741889 951885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1351741931 341649 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you have consistent proofs in an inconsistent logic < 1351741942 998262 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just have to be really careful, probably < 1351741963 754045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what would happen if PRA got proved inconsistent overnight < 1351742005 250036 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The total and irrevocable collapse of civilisation < 1351742008 729110 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, I think he's like 17 or something. < 1351742016 208995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edward nelson is one of my favourite wacky mathematicians < 1351742021 331035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC he doesn't believe exponentiation is total < 1351742034 185616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget his argument, although ISTR it's at least vaguely compelling < 1351742057 125010 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Nelson is the guy that developed internal set theory. < 1351742078 641094 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=103 < 1351742092 106764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes! I love that anecdote < 1351742119 802031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone loves that anecdote. < 1351742375 911504 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that anecdote < 1351742409 839592 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :∀p. ♥(p, A) < 1351742537 786610 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742542 954867 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1351742552 744830 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742557 440960 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1351742560 722127 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1351742561 988666 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that proves that. < 1351742567 864766 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1351742571 176134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742576 318639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1351742578 186202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742581 486411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Debug.SimpleReflect': < 1351742581 644078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the... < 1351742586 19940 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to ask what the time limit is... < 1351742587 293172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742591 394918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Debug.SimpleReflect': < 1351742591 538044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the... < 1351742595 892231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something weird is going on with lambdabot recently. < 1351742596 925061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1351742599 265260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Debug.SimpleReflect': < 1351742599 425589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the... < 1351742723 386348 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1351742727 548660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Debug.SimpleReflect': < 1351742727 711114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the... < 1351742747 625129 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ∀p. ♥(p, A) < 1351742752 139805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1351742908 130323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 < 1351742912 685770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1351742915 495988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^100 < 1351742918 19056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Debug.SimpleReflect': < 1351742918 183412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the... < 1351742959 572641 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1267650600228229401496703205376 < 1351743222 844540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks tswett < 1351743603 599935 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '2^100' | bc < 1351743606 569117 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: bc: command not found < 1351743646 502964 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '2 100^p' | dc < 1351743649 636049 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1267650600228229401496703205376 < 1351745249 305491 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351745514 129133 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1351745552 207479 :evincar!~jon@173-228-13-253.dsl.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351746372 284304 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this machine has sda1 through sdo1 < 1351746376 791831 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than half way through the alphabet < 1351746505 886621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdz9 < 1351746511 34077 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351746512 222224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what comes after sdz < 1351746516 954475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hey < 1351746532 825547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :st:ds9 < 1351746539 127316 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1351746545 33527 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is next i think < 1351746745 183798 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 STDs < 1351746778 959571 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i can even name 9 STDs < 1351746795 318921 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to be as debauched as five Babylons < 1351746801 265279 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1351746812 986220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if you have sex with someone who has a cold, you might get a cold < 1351746814 534866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that count < 1351746842 32484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sexually transmitted crazy < 1351746885 160477 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's only used for things that are transmitted only through sex < 1351746897 472505 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well HIV is not transmitted only through sex < 1351746899 119512 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like national secrets < 1351746913 267743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think all STDs are possible to catch some other way < 1351746915 220431 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get creative < 1351746930 800418 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how phallic you think needles are < 1351746957 567911 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair point (no pun intended (pun very much intended)) < 1351750174 48597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My flag shirt arrived today. < 1351750191 703517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time Sensitive Material" < 1351750214 164135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a higher-quality shirt than the last one. < 1351753917 323115 :evincar!~jon@173-228-13-253.dsl.static.sonic.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1351755065 855163 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1351755372 939701 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351758409 888595 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1351759419 378396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351760575 874407 :opgrop!~opgrop@99-45-224-140.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351760593 202774 :opgrop!~opgrop@99-45-224-140.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net PART :#esoteric < 1351761689 325027 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1351761736 763402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1351761990 151463 :carado!~user4539@78.250.194.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351762267 497714 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1351762376 802800 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351762961 484192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1351763000 431666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1351763026 944722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1351763533 794867 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1351763539 318490 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :gur < 1351763723 138554 :carado!~user4539@78.250.194.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1351764122 590055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gur < 1351764450 950180 :carado!~user4539@78.250.212.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351764527 134265 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1351764893 507138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rug < 1351764943 277260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Please /nick to enlightening < 1351764946 524414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then back to elliott. < 1351764954 431901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my /query window gets renamed. < 1351764956 298436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thx" < 1351764973 572275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1351764992 860438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :'( < 1351765004 473321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Alternatively, tell me how to rename an irssi /query window. < 1351765086 132831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1351765094 892418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not using irssi < 1351765132 482148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about you try < 1351765136 762509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEING SAD < 1351765192 548095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1351765422 313581 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351765598 840755 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351765895 621607 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so here's an idea for a language < 1351765914 583077 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only way of branching would be to use lazy evaluation of boolean expressions < 1351765951 411381 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, assuming x always return true, "if (b) {x} else {y}" can be written "(b AND x) OR y") < 1351765981 575265 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this language would do its best to do minimalist; in particular, its only logic gate would be the universal logic gate XOR < 1351766055 872804 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1351766061 405446 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1351766197 526337 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1351766552 428640 :carado!~user4539@78.250.212.172 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1351766712 421881 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351768085 353672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351769785 674336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean: are you mean < 1351769843 398913 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :/mode +median mean < 1351769843 665016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds likely; the average person is mean. < 1351770014 648174 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1351770070 575881 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=)) < 1351770089 338365 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noticed they don't have this mode < 1351770092 356876 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on freenode < 1351770095 294388 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like undernet < 1351770095 639114 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1351770096 263745 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1351770135 428586 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hide my ip < 1351770342 928428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like you want a cloak < 1351770353 461314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get one for asking for one in #freenode < 1351770355 366020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, < 1351770356 971144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mean < 1351770366 586116 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1351770381 352431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(asking in #freenode after reading http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks, ofc) < 1351770392 99786 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1351770393 542524 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloak < 1351770415 785454 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1351770417 453135 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1351770462 699065 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351770868 368660 :this!~this@AC81E30C.ipt.aol.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1351770868 642814 :this!~this@AC81E30C.ipt.aol.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1351770916 309994 :mean!~this@188.214.33.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1351771154 61419 :impomatic!~digital_w@94.66.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351771457 960235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey you know things about wayland right < 1351771517 162231 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351772500 949501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351773155 931467 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351773314 524500 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I try to start thunar, I get (thunar:27545): GVFS-RemoteVolumeMonitor-WARNING **: invoking List() failed for type GProxyVolumeMonitorUDisks2: Method `List' returned type `(a(sssbbbbbbbbuasa{ss}sa{sv})a(sssssbbssa{ss}sa{sv})a(sssssbsassa{sv}))', but expected `(a(ssssbbbbbbbbuasa{ss}sa{sv})a(ssssssbbssa{ss}sa{sv})a(ssssssbsassa{sv}))' (g-io-error-quark, 13) < 1351773321 663765 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that the weirdest error < 1351773605 22005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: i think that's a dbus type thing < 1351773682 979740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be expecting three s too many. < 1351774335 202779 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1351774925 369806 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logging out and back in fixed it < 1351775152 855383 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351775537 887809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351775543 325805 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351775655 75107 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1351775666 99464 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you were right < 1351775700 64240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott was right?! Uh, I mean, of course. < 1351775715 766183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: but of course! < 1351775742 645802 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brogue is very fun < 1351775873 916018 :impomatic!~digital_w@94.66.112.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: http://RetroProgramming.com < 1351776709 561161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351776724 441802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351777091 36091 :nooga_!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1351777107 172987 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351777107 852158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351777158 551852 :nooga_!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've finally found the best reason to use OS X < 1351777182 337156 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on...? < 1351777188 899838 :nooga_!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehttp://cl.ly/image/3N1V131H2Z1B < 1351777196 489084 :nooga_!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cl.ly/image/3N1V131H2Z1B < 1351777331 175224 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351777365 188997 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=50107 < 1351777520 967831 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1351777895 865839 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1351778184 727535 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-5.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1351779189 61486 :nooga_!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1351780625 750846 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-40-234.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351780656 218609 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1351780796 311466 :nooga!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1351780813 893846 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, how do I get rid of this horrible scroll bar if my
 
is too large? < 1351780870 900229 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :overflow: < 1351780877 474280 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, how do I tell mediawiki that it should let my browser display a newline if the line is too large for the screen) < 1351780877 748487 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :using CSS, that is < 1351780916 428313 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, mediawiki < 1351780922 910669 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind in that case < 1351780931 359542 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks anyway :) < 1351780954 54076 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I could insert newlines my self but that sounds like a bad way to deal with the problem < 1351780977 557123 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if not everyone has the exact same screen I have < 1351781028 505130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obvious solution is of course to mandate same screens for everyone. < 1351781063 434619 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I was thinking about sending a mail to the president of computers < 1351781117 426701 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee, which US federal executive department would that be? < 1351781152 894119 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1351781172 513468 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Department of... Energy? < 1351781202 721827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't the chamber of commerce run the internet? < 1351781218 747113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does US have a Department of Conservation of Energy? < 1351781238 635771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't normally need government departments to enforce the laws of physics < 1351781252 783351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in case. < 1351781259 660631 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's have to be an agency of the Department of Things We Have No Control Over. < 1351781291 478531 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351781295 536541 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nah, the Democrats are in power and they're liberal < 1351781305 659442 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've got a Department for the Liberation of Energy < 1351781313 284774 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying there the president of physics is not needed? < 1351781322 308285 :nooga!~nooga@public-gprs184634.centertel.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1351781325 598501 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he would like hearing that < 1351781331 623894 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-40-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes for a Department of Entropy < 1351781464 158815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we compromise on a department of enthalpy? < 1351781480 399700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1351781633 198748 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I demand that it be a Department of Enormity. < 1351781638 68368 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-44-36.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1351781639 794289 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-40-234.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1351781643 834053 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not settle for anything less. < 1351781671 531473 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could apply for US citizenship on the basis that my gran was born in California < 1351781684 994279 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1351781704 922034 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would happen if I applied for US citizenship. < 1351781773 450923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1351781791 711620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351782178 821419 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hum, anyone knows how to get rid of the scroll bar? < 1351782248 349371 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1351782339 617769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll bar? < 1351782399 828698 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1351782445 816912 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I have a long line in a
 block, it all stays in one line, with a horizontal scroll bar to see what's out of the screen
< 1351782463 110113 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of displaying automatic newlines as is done with normal text
< 1351782508 141101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. ask oerjan :P
< 1351782515 393938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see
< 1351782518 498135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that is intentional
< 1351782527 409254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change the pre-wrap style thing but i forget how right now
< 1351782634 463062 :MoALTz!~no@host86-132-136-34.range86-132.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1351782674 429051 :MoALTz!~no@host86-132-136-34.range86-132.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351783327 202721 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :baa
< 1351784660 212698 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351784702 178249 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "Sherlock" a real name?
< 1351784717 925785 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it appears to be a surname that exists
< 1351784725 817447 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it could presumably be used as a first name
< 1351784739 606730 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cf. Robson Green et al)
< 1351784755 749701 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who incidentally was from Hexham)
< 1351784802 956836 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hex ham
< 1351784809 618696 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hexham
< 1351784812 569868 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham.
< 1351784831 420520 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what's Hexham, atriq 
< 1351784847 108047 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robson Green doesn't
< 1351784850 408417 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1351784857 91690 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl NICK :nooga
< 1351784882 688354 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about at riq
< 1351784885 972335 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Octham
< 1351785184 871699 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351786181 905691 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :after playing with this PDP8/e
< 1351786206 629382 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how they could use it for something useful back then
< 1351786698 218385 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spoiled by Gordon Moore.
< 1351786863 826756 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't really predict anything
< 1351786941 433515 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO management divisions just learned about his predictions and ordered enginieers to fulfill them
< 1351787105 424444 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :He should have predicted faster chips then!
< 1351787131 814677 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1351787178 13902 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is another law
< 1351787216 226408 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that limits the speed of electrons :F
< 1351787360 9260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1351787390 843601 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the size of components.
< 1351787400 322808 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the size restrictions were the harsher ones.
< 1351787410 77166 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the thermal ones too, I guess.
< 1351787462 501520 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smaller components get hotter because they have to move more electrons, which makes it harder to move electrons around, which makes it necessary to make the components smaller
< 1351787470 250913 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wonder that these chips ever get made
< 1351787524 648378 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't modern chips generate more power per unit volume than a nuclear reactor?
< 1351787530 76848 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/power/heat/
< 1351787562 977436 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nuclear reactors can probably generate more if they turned all the safeties off
< 1351787991 529012 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351788028 849336 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351788111 320391 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351788209 902119 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: in which case they would be called nuclear bombs
< 1351788233 166979 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen, no they wouldn't
< 1351788262 382916 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean there would be nobody left to call them anything?
< 1351788265 183961 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuclear reactors aren't even close to being able to properly explode.
< 1351788270 837743 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1351788288 136256 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought if you removed the control bars the reaction would chain exponentially
< 1351788298 820939 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1351788308 559529 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to actually blow up.
< 1351788320 638966 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'VE BEEN LIED TO
< 1351788332 905970 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They tend to melt through the containment vessel or cause heat-related explosions.
< 1351788379 184299 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason you get so much power out of a nuclear bomb is that you shove all the stuff together at high speed in a very precise way
< 1351788379 491155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1351788397 895611 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just that, the stuff has to be a lot purer than fuel.
< 1351788405 307478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which keeps it from flying apart just long enough to go crazy
< 1351788407 634390 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's true
< 1351788578 59610 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a criticality excursion might count as a tiny nuclear explosion? Anyway, not enough to fit into what everyone thinks of as a nuclear explosion.
< 1351788589 959411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the manhattan project had originally planned to use a gun-type bomb with plutonium
< 1351788606 605681 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they couldn't make plutonium pure enough at scale to prevent it from spontaneously fizzling during the detonation process
< 1351788631 193931 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they had to use the much more complex implosion design for Pu
< 1351788854 336844 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you mix naquida in the fuel?
< 1351788887 6656 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends, is it fissile
< 1351788894 901634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351789027 846978 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly have no idea. They usually just link it to some random ship they found, using copper and a lot of tape, and it generates enough power to travel across the galaxy (and sometimes outside)
< 1351789202 847702 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351790024 34047 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351790138 945711 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351790820 680585 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1351791071 379702 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351791741 386334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351792047 518021 :gippi!~pi@net-188-153-94-104.cust.dsl.teletu.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351792104 168799 :gippi!~pi@net-188-153-94-104.cust.dsl.teletu.it QUIT :Client Quit
< 1351792899 368562 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an email notifying me of a "female movable feast".
< 1351792969 325974 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o
< 1351793002 147411 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's run by RBS so doubtless the name will be the most interesting thing about it.
< 1351793019 175985 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351793082 609306 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1351793112 408975 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have an email notifying me of a "female movable feast".
< 1351793114 234505 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what
< 1351793199 719501 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "female movable feast"?
< 1351793264 865135 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea
< 1351793273 750269 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It involves investment banking though.
< 1351794671 468611 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351795636 843654 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1351796778 113498 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1351797059 813562 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351797140 242564 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351797440 781155 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351797815 568145 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what speed the ARMv2a-compatible Amber core can run at? Do you know how to make some of kind of modifications such as hardwiring the cacheable areas and supervisor areas and so on?
< 1351798072 699837 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might need to make the computer at first using FPGA, later on it may be replaced with open-source FPGA and/or ASIC components.
< 1351798444 251023 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351798635 173347 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-82-9.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1351798948 118848 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351798983 866033 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351799022 780105 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this chess/shogi variants?   http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSkirachesskiras
< 1351799254 875975 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351799509 500444 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Time to lose consciousness
< 1351799570 316259 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your opponent's Kira is a knight's move away or one space orthogonally away
< 1351799583 181198 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you mean by "one space orthogonally away"?
< 1351799688 420283 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't understand the thing about double wins
< 1351799858 869699 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I mean what is sometimes called the "Wazir"; from c3, it can capture on c2, c4, b3, and d3, for example.
< 1351799889 779372 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1351799901 720700 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double wins is just for scoring, you count as 2 wins instead of 1
< 1351799911 463586 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but when does it occur?
< 1351799930 503534 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I understand, you win when both special pieces of your opponents are out
< 1351799939 604490 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yES.
< 1351799978 547685 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when do you double-win?
< 1351800014 453721 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you win due to your opponent's L dies from your Kira when they have no Kira, then you win, this is a special win count as double. Same if your L capture opponent's Kira when they have no L, it is win so it count as a double win.
< 1351800018 238370 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1351800045 537306 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this understandable to you, or not?
< 1351800203 427939 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes but it that case it's only possible to double-win, is it not?
< 1351800228 489908 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a win occurs when both L and Kira are dead... but for that, you have to kill one of the two, then the second
< 1351800243 100497 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're saying that when the second dies, if the first was already dead, it's a double-win
< 1351800250 21519 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in those cases it is only possible to double win; if the second is captured normally though, then it is a single win.
< 1351800250 951204 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looks to me like it's always a double-win
< 1351800259 815205 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1351800261 783044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Did U know that 1-877-SAF-RAIL dials directly to our Transit Police dispatch center? Put it in ur contacts. #potontrain #crimesinprogress'
< 1351800264 898297 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HASHTAG POT ON TRAIN
< 1351800275 699247 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be confusing "killing" and "capturing"
< 1351800349 891193 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what exactly is the propoer vocabulary? "killing" for the death note, "capturing" for regular chess captures, and "eliminating" when not making the distinction?
< 1351800372 902763 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so.
< 1351800390 176622 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351800433 628038 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add that to the notes section.
< 1351800600 35982 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh I get it
< 1351800630 271643 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you eliminate your opponent's second special piece using your special power, then it's a double-win
< 1351800637 117521 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I get it right?
< 1351800812 246102 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1351801004 935028 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351801710 363569 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'...physics doesn't really need sophisticated stats (unlike biology and medicine) because your data isn't crap.  Nobody approves a billion-dollar supercollider because somebody was just slightly able to exclude the null hypothesis at two sigma with a chi-square. People do approve billion-dollar pills that way.'
< 1351801776 10250 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-44-36.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the frontier of physics actually based in sophisticated stats? :)
< 1351801815 660130 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't anger the nerds
< 1351801828 840241 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rational drug design" being a distinct thing is pretty funny, though.
< 1351801848 235390 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's angering what nerds
< 1351801872 462987 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think in physics you are just expected to get more data until your conclusions are relatively clear
< 1351801993 760916 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-44-36.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, yes, physics does expect a ton of data. The higgs boson result recently was "5 sigma confirmation of the existence of *a* boson that happens to be consistent with the Higgs boson hypothesis.", no?
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< 1351803025 514229 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think so
< 1351803030 941831 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i 
< 1351803061 185858 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like you are emphasizing a distinction between "the higgs boson" and "a boson that happens to be consistent with the higgs boson" and I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction
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< 1351803134 733917 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they would be different anyways; if it has the properties of the Higgs boson then it must be the Higgs boson isn't it?
< 1351803135 845362 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351803150 976287 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, sure it is.
< 1351803206 105773 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you detected an unknown particle and you only knew it had a charge of -1 it would be consistent with an electron, but it could well be something else.
< 1351803232 699943 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes the electron has more properties than just its electric charge.
< 1351803253 843060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1351803281 36713 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-44-36.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm saying that the physicists themselves are making that distinction. In the name of being careful.
< 1351804049 82720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'What does a $1.6 million explosion sound like? We'll have to ask Fisker Automotive. Sixteen of the luxury carmaker's $100,000 Karma hybrid sports sedans caught fire, blew up and then burned to a crisp after being submerged during Hurricane Sandy. '
< 1351804634 230987 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :‘Not a lot of people know this, but the “B” in Benoît B. Mandelbrot’s name stands for “Benoît B. Mandelbrot”.’
< 1351804724 550054 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-44-36.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :♥ Mandelbrot
< 1351805222 341319 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
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< 1351806030 520688 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351806177 610892 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only Unicode had a Mandelbrot Set character :/
< 1351806220 437618 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually for one of the two experiments it was actually 4.9 sigma :)
< 1351806632 186031 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is not really relevant at all, except very enjoyable for those who were part of the other experiment that got 5.1)
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< 1351814144 141316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfog
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< 1351814277 145740 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have had idea before, of a + | ^ operator (these being the C operators), which is allowed only if all are the same result, and its opposite being the - &~ ^ operator.
< 1351814295 483208 :zzo38!~zzo38@d173-180-203-184.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be usable for optimization in some cases, I guess.
< 1351814367 497193 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-69.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
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