00:00:26 X1 Carbon with i7 processor and 8 GB of RAM 00:00:55 due to thinness the RAM is soldered on and can't be upgraded :/ 00:01:26 on the US site you can get the best CPU or the best RAM but not both at once :( 00:01:53 kmc: Soon Haswell will come out and it won't be the best CPU anymore. 00:02:03 true enough 00:02:10 Why can't i just by "the best CPU for all time"? 00:02:18 s/by/buy/ s/i/I/ 00:02:47 is cerqvpgnoyrchaf a haswell instruction 00:02:55 oh, carbon was an actual part of the name, I thought it was generally refering to any carbon fibery lenovo model starting with "x" 00:03:07 (which is pretty much all of them) 00:03:08 yeah, this one is... more carbon fibery 00:03:19 kmc: Yes, that gzips a buffer. 00:04:46 Well, rep cerqvpgnoyrchaf does. Without the rep prefix it consumes a single byte of the to-be-gzip'd stream (of course) 00:04:50 they typically use carbon fiber reinforced plastic, together with magnesium alloy 00:09:54 the new keyboard style looks flimsy though 00:11:58 everyone who has reviewed it says it's great 00:12:42 i literally have not heard a single bad thing from anyone who has actually used it 00:12:52 plenty of nerd rage from thinkpad diehards looking at photos, though 00:13:16 i don't think you can really tell if it's flimsy from photos 00:13:32 i'll also note that the internal mechanism of the beloved 'classic keyboard' changed all the time 00:15:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:18:34 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 00:19:51 -!- monqy has joined. 00:21:32 monqy: welcome back 00:24:16 all laptop keyboards hurt my hands; they can't compare to the kinesis 00:25:37 I want a kinesis keyboard for my phone. 00:25:42 You could call it a telekinesis. 00:25:54 -_- 00:52:25 shachaf: today I actually understood how Django's CSRF protection works 00:52:53 Is it an unusual sort of CSRF protection? 00:52:58 i don't know 00:53:06 perhaps i actually understood how CSRF protection works in general 00:53:17 How does Django's work? 00:53:32 how do djangos work? 00:53:40 the server makes up a random value and sets it in a cookie 00:53:52 and also arranges that all form submissions will include this value in a hidden 00:54:11 when a request comes in, the server doesn't know what the "right" random value is 00:54:18 it just checks that the cookie matches the form field 00:54:34 That's CSRF protection in general, I think. 00:54:39 yeah 00:54:45 i think this is the usual way 00:54:50 What would it mean for it to know the "right" random value? That it would store a value in a database and look it up from your session cookie? 00:55:10 That's still cookie-indexed, so I don't think you gain much. 00:55:11 right -- I think in that case there's no point in it being distinct from the session ID 00:55:34 You usually do want to avoid using the session cookie itself as the CSRF token. 00:55:40 if you had a system where the session ID is submitted with every request, that would also be safe against CSRF 00:55:49 but would be insecure in other ways 00:55:58 Ideally JavaScript doesn't have access to the session ID at all. 00:56:05 but i haven't thought through which specifically; it just seems like a bad idea 00:56:08 yeah, that's one of them 00:56:54 one advantage of it not being part of the session is that you can protect not-logged-in views, including the login page 00:57:45 Well, session /= login 00:57:47 But yes. 00:57:58 true 00:59:57 i don't know enough about web security 00:59:59 gotta learn more 01:01:10 I found multiple web bugs in a web application that's running on my computer right now. :-( 01:01:19 great 01:01:26 Including broken XSS protection and pretty broken CSRF protection. 01:01:51 Also, double-free or something. But I didn't have any luck tracking it down last time. 01:02:41 I should probably report it... 01:04:41 what is broken about them? 01:05:08 A CSRF token is generated based on a very complicated algorithm seeded with time(NULL). 01:05:22 On a web page that you normally never visit. 01:06:26 great 01:07:03 the significance of the latter is that you keep the same one for a long time? 01:07:07 did you report those two problems? 01:09:16 No, because I was hoping to track down the other problem and make them all work together. 01:09:29 Individually they're relatively minor bugs but code-execution-by-visiting-a-webpage-on-a-default-Debian-install would be more fun to have found. 01:10:28 This might be silly reasoning. :-) 01:10:53 heh 01:11:00 Did I mention this is a custom-written C web server that runs as root (and some CGI scripts also written in C)? 01:11:08 is it cups 01:11:19 Yes. 01:11:26 I expected that you'd find it from what I said. :-) 01:11:29 great 01:11:42 Should I report the bugs? 01:11:47 it's not remotely accessible by default, though, is it? but I suppose an attacker can always make you visit a link to it 01:11:57 Remotely accessible? 01:12:11 the web server only accepts connections on localhost, or no? 01:12:44 you should report it 01:13:14 I guess I should. 01:13:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:14:00 They have some XSS protection but it's broken. 01:14:51 I've found at least three real bugs, and know of one more that I haven't managed to track down yet. 01:16:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:16:54 Hmm, https://cups.org/ has an invalid certificate. 01:19:05 CUPS is an Apple thing, right? 01:21:00 They bought it, yes. 01:24:07 kmc: Did you see http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/postxss/ ? 01:27:16 nice 02:13:04 i think the worst part of living on campus is the random screams piercing the night 02:31:49 Why, precisely, does your campus have random screams piercing the night? 02:33:36 For the first time in a very long time, I have purchased a book on programming 02:40:43 >.> The Joy of Clojure 02:42:43 how's it compare to The Joy of Sex? 02:46:48 pikhq, I'm not keen to investigate. 02:47:53 Bike: Normally, I'd say it's quite inferior 02:47:56 but with Sgeo, I'm unsure 03:03:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:27:47 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:28:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:28:03 Gregor: Have you heard the news? (perhaps a bit slow, but still) 04:28:20 Which news? 04:28:33 Gregor: Nov. 10. FiM. Just sayin'. 04:28:41 Yeah, of course I have. 04:29:15 See also: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4008180436991&l=9e2e2cbb5d 04:29:28 :D 04:29:33 I did see that one. 04:29:44 (we *are* "friends" on Facebook) 04:29:56 Sure, but things tend to go unnoticed on FB *shrugs* 04:30:04 Can you guess what the remaining component is? ;) 04:31:06 I sense a distinct lack of horn? 04:31:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:32:24 pikhq: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070QMUFA/ 04:32:30 I shall be what nightmares are made of. 04:32:46 :D 04:33:52 It's even got blue eyes. 04:38:16 So, how do you make nightmares, then? 04:39:54 Nightmares are made out of him. Meaning, Gregor needs to be ground up into a fine powder, and this powder is then mixed with a dream. 04:40:29 samsa? 04:41:12 Bugs are boring nightmares. 04:41:15 O, that is how you are going to do it. 04:41:24 zzo38: Do you believe in leap months? 04:42:11 Leap months? I don't think so (although it might depend on the calendar). 04:43:11 I prefer the name "INTERCALARIS" 04:44:01 Which of course belongs between FEBRVARIVS and MARTIVS. 04:45:08 -!- energumeno has joined. 04:45:23 O, so you want 29 Feb to be not called a day of a month, is that what you mean? 04:45:41 zzo38: What if there was a leap month called "Sanctuary". 04:45:43 ! 04:45:50 No, I'm just being silly. 04:46:29 monqy: what if we had 13 months of 28 days each 04:46:31 > 13 * 28 04:46:32 364 04:46:37 coïncidence??????? 04:47:11 There are also various other calendar systems, and depending how important you want seasons to line up, what features of days of week, and other things. 04:47:13 Why not 5 months of 73 days? 04:47:22 what about the 11:11 phenomena? 04:47:34 pikhq: That is the Discordian calendar is it not? 04:47:34 energumenoqy brings up a good point 04:47:39 zzo38: Is it? 04:47:49 I think it is. 04:48:15 Is there any coherence to the current calendar 04:48:16 Sure enough. 04:48:28 As in, any good reason that different months are different lengths? 04:48:31 And then the 29 Feb will be called St.Tib's day, so not belonging to a day of week or to a month. 04:48:57 jung's archetiype is the key to all the abstract concepts 04:49:22 `welcome energumeno 04:49:26 energymeno: Can you please be more specific? 04:49:33 energumeno: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:49:34 hi sgeo! 04:49:45 And does 11:11 phenomena have what to do with what? 04:49:56 Let me look it up in Wikipedia. 04:50:14 Sgeo: Only historical: the ancient Roman calendar had irregular months. 04:50:27 "Numerologists believe that events linked to the time 11:11 appear more often than can be explained by chance or coincidence." It is nonsense, as far as I am concerned. 04:50:38 Why did the ancient Roman calendar have irregualr months? 04:50:48 Sgeo: Good question maybe Wikipedia has that too. 04:50:50 Unknown. 04:50:59 Possibly something to do with the moon? 04:51:00 Possibly because ROMVLVS said so. 04:51:02 the digital programming is a binary sequence 04:51:29 i thought it was augustus and julius being arrogant, or is that an urban legend 04:52:01 energumeno: I do not understand what point you are trying to make, although I guess it is correct yes the digital programming is a binary sequence, in computer machine codes, whatever 04:52:12 frequencies are modulating something in our brains 04:52:23 Bike: Nah, Julius was just making a sane modification to already-extant Roman practice. 04:52:46 Replacing an inconsistent intercalary month with a consistent intercalary day. 04:53:10 have you seen the 23 film? 04:53:10 Huh. I didn't know that. 04:53:12 energumeno: Yes I think it is, frequencies are modulating something in everything, I do not understand what you are trying to make. 04:53:18 is a good point of references 04:53:18 And changed some month lengths slightly so the year was 365 or 366 days, instead of 355 or 377 or 378 days. 04:53:26 No, I have not seen the 23 film. 04:53:58 (the length of the month Intercalaris varied slightly) 04:54:00 Film is about a hacker's history 04:54:05 zzo38, I have a feeling energumeno is exactly the sort of person looking for the other kind of esoteric. 04:54:20 Sgeo: I agree, but I try to answer question anyways. 04:54:32 Fair enough 04:54:54 O, yes, OK, I can see about that film on Wikipedia now. 04:55:05 sgeo "yes and not" jajaja 04:56:16 Let me know if the number 3 starts appearing everywhere and everyone has a sense of deja vu 04:56:54 "Apophenia is the experience of seeing meaningful patterns or connections in random or meaningless data." Yes this can certainly happen. It is one way to give you ideas, certainly, even though there is not a real objective patterns. It is also synchronicity, I think? 04:57:57 "For example almost every culture has a savior that has come back from heaven or the dead, or reincarnation is a main point of the belief. Jesus for example in the Christian texts and also Buddhists and Hindus have reincarnation as a principal part of their religion, these being principal parts of many religions." These are things I have noticed. 04:57:57 zzo38 apophenia is a compulsive finding about patterns 04:58:02 A book I read about more than 3 dimensions had a chapter on synchronicity, no idea why. It seemed to buy into that sort of mysterious gunk 04:58:17 But other than that it was a good book 04:58:27 energumeno: O, yes, OK. 04:58:42 zzo38: a life-death-rebirth deity, often linked to farming. 04:59:16 Sgeo: I cannot understand either, it doesn't make much sense. Perhaps a sentence or footnote about synchronicity might go, but (at least without knowing much about the book) it doesn't seem like it ought to have a chapter of it. 04:59:51 Might not have been a full chapter 04:59:54 I don't remember 05:02:19 Can I link wiki's refs here? 05:02:58 energumeno: What refs specifically? Link some, if we don't like it we can tell you 05:03:41 Synchronicity's scientific refs 05:04:59 Well, link some, I don't care. (Maybe others do, but I don't care) 05:05:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity 05:05:14 And then I will look if I want to. 05:05:19 Yes I read that already. 05:05:29 ah ok! 05:06:32 As far as I can understand, it refers to a subjective grouping of events rather than objective. 05:08:11 mmm not at all. the first lawer of shynchronicity is that phenomena isn't pre-subjetive 05:08:45 subjetivity is post-phenomena 05:09:23 Well yes, subjectivity is post-phenomena, but I don't think that violates what I have said. 05:11:53 trouble is: how phenomena is rapping the law of space-time 05:12:45 Again, I do not understand you. 05:14:23 Have you seen PI film? 05:15:04 the bug theory (yes the same that computing) is the explanation 05:15:27 No, I have not seen. 05:16:06 is very good (and very rare) 05:16:40 I am not sure what a "bug theory" is. 05:17:00 heisenberg's indeterminacy theory 05:17:33 the eye can't see himself 05:17:37 Do you mean Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle? 05:18:05 yes it is 05:18:20 OK 05:22:15 Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle can tell how you cannot know the position and momentum precisely simultaneously. 05:23:06 I know some things about physics, and I like physics and mathematics. 05:23:52 yes, in other words I think, when a person is nearing the true, the true protects itself, the bug, the shynchronicity is the mask 05:33:28 the spin numbers' dancing 05:33:31 "the true"? 05:33:31 I suffer this phenomena in my life continuosly 05:33:35 palindromic numbers seeing... 05:33:39 redundant people shynchronicities... 05:33:42 life-after-death-ville 05:33:42 I don't understand why shynchronicitie often primes about some people 05:33:43 kmc ufffff! 05:33:45 I have interests in philosophy too. 05:33:46 Like the welcome message says, you may have been looking for the other kind of esoteric, which is not known a lot by people on this channel. Nevertheless, we can and do discuss a variety of things in this channel, including things like that possibly. 05:33:48 I am mainly interested in mathematics, physics, computer programming, etc but I know some things about various other topics as well: astrology, religion, linguistics, various others too a few things. I also play Dungeons&Dragons game. 05:34:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:34:06 energumeno: Probably just because you notice it, I guess. 05:35:08 -!- lahwran has quit (Excess Flood). 05:35:38 ok zzo38, this is a baffling topic 05:36:40 -!- lahwran has joined. 05:36:45 but I begin to be afraid... 05:37:37 Of course I don't know for sure; I just guess. 05:39:02 23 film's hacker was a "real" history 05:39:20 There are various phenomena that are not yet known. The same applies to mathematics and to physics, and it is even proven. 05:42:43 why people separate mathematics and physics? 05:43:04 separates 05:43:20 Well, math covers a *lot* more than merely physics for one. 05:43:44 ok this is 05:44:00 math is a tool for physics 05:44:14 I think so 05:44:37 That's not the sum total *of* math, but that is one of its use cases, yes. 05:45:30 A button to touch, a dial to turn, a key to hold 05:45:48 mmm math is a tool for all 05:46:15 a conjunt of all 05:46:39 to infinite abstractions 05:47:10 Yes, math is used for a lot of things. Mathematics can also be studied for just itself too, even if the area studied is not currently being used for something else too. 05:49:13 so I think physics is applied mathematics simply 05:50:01 I think there are others who said the same. 05:52:29 some physicists would want to kill me... jajaja 06:02:50 -!- sivoais has quit (*.net *.split). 06:02:51 -!- lahwran has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:11 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:28 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:28 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 06:03:28 energumeno: Physics is one instance of applied mathematics, indeed. 06:03:28 Computing is another instance. 06:03:34 to infinity and beyond 06:03:34 shachaf: how do you feel about x["t"] === x.t 06:03:34 -!- monqy has left. 06:03:34 ok, returning to coincidences' phenomena, i think the key is the "kaos theory" or how microscopical physics is influencing "over" macroscopic physics 06:03:34 -!- ogrom has joined. 06:03:34 how collective thinking is influencing "over" random 06:03:35 http://www.buryl.com/Collective_thought.htm 06:03:36 what do you think about that? 06:04:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:06:30 yes ok, but a instance is a materialized abstraction 06:06:50 physics is a abstraction himself 06:07:43 so instance is not appropiated for this 06:08:57 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:08:57 -!- tswett has joined. 06:08:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:09:45 i would say physics or computing are interfaces of mathematics... 06:10:43 OK 06:11:41 -!- sivoais has joined. 06:17:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:18:12 well gentlemen I'll rest a while... 06:18:23 bye :-) 06:18:34 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 06:21:04 OK 06:22:21 -!- energumeno has left. 06:22:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:43:07 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 06:43:21 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 06:43:26 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Bike has joined. 16:06:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 16:13:51 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:16:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:26:09 wow they are shutting down the new york city subway for this storm 16:26:29 the subway almost never shuts down 16:26:33 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 16:29:27 fizzie: You know things about mod files, right? 16:32:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:34:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:39:06 I don't know about that. I had to learn quite a bit about the .it format when writing that one player, and I've dabbled a bit with some of the others. 16:53:05 -!- atriq has joined. 16:55:20 fizzie: I was wondering if you could, like, recommend a player. For Linux. 16:55:45 I really need to update Phantom_Hoover's tumblr at some point 16:56:01 I'd like to know a good player myself. I used to like Cubic Player on DOS, but opencubicplayer has underwhelmed. Lately I've just been using xmp. 16:57:18 fizzie: I just used this XMPlay thing in Wine. (It was for a purpose.) (It was awful.) 16:58:42 -!- barts__ has joined. 17:01:59 -!- barts_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:13:39 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:14:49 CP had a würfel mode. 17:18:29 elliott: Run OpenMPT in wine 17:18:45 Anything else is inaccurate 17:23:38 kmc: yeah, I'm annoyed by this storm and I live several hundred k inland 17:23:55 going to pull out my winter jacket tomorrow 17:24:30 kmc: What's a good language? 17:30:39 coppro: Sucker. 17:32:51 Jim Florentine – Terrorizing Telemarketers 2 – Broken Record http://open.spotify.com/track/1FwqzJruXtMzcvQ0rRBH0v 17:33:24 elliott: hungarian 17:45:51 magyar 17:47:25 kmc: Programming. :( 17:49:08 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:06 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:53:46 -!- ogrom has joined. 17:53:47 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 17:54:15 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:56:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:59:41 you should make a programming language called "what" 18:00:11 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:36 kmc: :( 18:02:33 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2083649206/the-d-programming-language-conference-2013-0 i am shocked that there is $15k worth of care for D in the world 18:02:35 Deewiant: how much did you donate :P 18:03:22 "The D community is a meritocracy comprising talented, ambitious, and opinionated hackers." 18:03:36 hahahahaha 18:03:37 good to know it's not a democracy or anything 18:03:51 i love open source "meritocracies" 18:03:56 aka shouting matches 18:03:56 It's just the regular sort of cracy. 18:03:57 it's meritocracy! 18:04:01 that means we hand out commit bits pseudo-randomly 18:04:14 and can shun people without having to justify it 18:04:21 in a meritocracy you show your merit by being a huge asshole to everyone, especially on mailing lists 18:04:31 if they put up with you, it means your code is good 18:04:33 qed 18:05:06 everyone who leaves because the community is full of assholes had no merit anyway 18:05:17 (nb: I have no idea what the D community specifically is like) 18:05:53 other than that it seems to be 100% white men, from that picture 18:05:57 shocking 18:06:04 All the KRYPTONITE SPONSORSHIP levels of the kickstarte are sold. :/ 18:06:12 the word meritocracy was apparently coined sarcastically 18:06:54 pikhq: aren't you in range too? 18:07:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:07:30 kmc: i think the D community is fairly good as far as language communities go 18:07:47 like walter bright is a smart guy 18:07:51 unfortunately their toolchain is shiiiiiiiiiiiiit 18:08:04 so the barrier to entry is being able to figure out how the fuck to compile D code 18:08:10 copumpkin: heh 18:08:55 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:09:16 I think the article in question had similar objections to yours, but I don't remember 18:11:33 "KRYPTONITE SPONSORSHIP. Because indeed D gives superhuman abilities!" 18:11:48 guys do you know what kryptonite does 18:12:06 makes bike locks 18:12:16 lol 18:12:28 It does an incredible variety of things, depending on color. 18:14:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite#Variations lists 18 variations, many with more than one supposed effect. 18:14:13 there has to be some kind of opposite superman that feeds on krypton 18:14:18 ite 18:14:25 right 18:14:38 "In post-Crisis continuity, Mister Mxyzptlk creates what he calls red kryptonite in the "Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite" story arc" 18:14:39 ok seriously 18:14:43 that's the stupidest fucking arc name ever 18:14:58 "Blue kryptonite is the Bizarro analogue to green kryptonite. Using Bizarro logic, this, in general, hurts Bizarros while having beneficial effects on ordinary Kryptonians." 18:15:00 ha i was right!! 18:15:20 The regular green one either gives you (a regular human) cancer, or superpowers. 18:15:20 coppro: In range of what? 18:15:36 fizzie: What odds are we talking here? 18:15:39 50% cancer, 50% superpower? 18:15:42 s 18:15:49 what if you already have cancer 18:16:04 I think it depends on where you're from, or something. But I'm no expert. 18:16:07 I'm merely in a cold area, but it's usually cold this time of year! I am evolved to meet the demands! 18:16:11 :P 18:16:16 Can it mean both together or is exclusive? 18:16:32 what if it gives you cancer, but also gives you the superpower that you're immune to cancer 18:16:32 cancer is not a very good superpower 18:17:40 I don't think you can possibly make kryptonite if krypton is a noble gas. 18:18:25 Krypton can form bonds. 18:18:47 guys does nvidia's propeirteirtiertary linux driver support kms 18:18:51 wait 18:18:52 zzo38: Kryptonite is not made out of krypton. 18:19:03 lex luthor is bald because he has kryptonite cancer? 18:19:07 elliott: No. 18:19:17 Phantom_Hoover: seriously? 18:19:20 pikhq: :( 18:19:21 pikhq: what about ati 18:19:27 zzo38: It's an alloy of "15.08% plutonium, 18.06% tantalum, 27.71% xenon, 24.02% promethium, 10.62% dialium, 3.94% mercury, and 0.57% of an unknown substance." 18:19:30 Also no. 18:19:39 pikhq: :( 18:19:45 pikhq: what about the open-source ones (are any of them good) 18:19:46 Intel is the only company for which the *official* drivers support KMS. 18:19:49 fizzie: where did you get that? 18:20:07 Then "kryptonite" is not a very good name for it. 18:20:07 For ATI, the open source drivers work decently. Lower 3D performance, but higher everything else performance. 18:20:14 nortti: The same Wikipedia page where the variants come from. 18:20:15 Can't tell you about Nouveau. 18:20:27 so it's made out of one thing that doesn't exist, a noble gas, and an element with a half-life of at most 17 years 18:20:31 pikhq: How much lower 3D performance are we talking here? 18:20:32 and plutonium 18:20:46 no wonder you get cancer from it 18:21:00 pikhq: O, so if you don't want 3D then you ought to use open source drivers. Is that it? 18:21:13 zzo38: It's related to the *planet* Krypton, not the element krypton. I think. 18:21:20 elliott: Maybe a little lower framerate? I've gotten shitty performance for both on my GPU, so. 18:21:55 has anyone suggested the theory that superman doesn't actually lose his powers but rather all of it goes to repairing cancer cells? 18:22:06 fizzie: Still that doesn't seem to make it a very good name for it. 18:22:10 nortti: You have. 18:23:30 nortti, he must get supercancer for that to work 18:25:40 so has anyone heard about a massive leather surplus in australia around the turn of the millennium 18:25:57 it seems to be the only rational explanation for farscape's costumes 18:41:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:46:09 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:48:45 pikhq: the oncoming storm 18:48:54 (not that one) 18:53:55 coppro: Nope. 18:54:12 Colorado is pretty damned far from the east coast. 18:54:20 pikhq: so it is 18:54:31 for some reason I thought you were near Michigan 18:54:37 Not even close. 18:54:57 the storm warnings say to have 3 days of supplies... I hope that doesn't become necessar 18:55:15 I think I will try to hole up in the university rather than my house if bad things happen 18:55:19 where are you? 18:55:23 (though that seems unlikely) 18:55:25 waterloo, ontario 18:55:28 ah 18:56:29 coppro: i read that as waterloo, waterloo 18:56:39 that too 19:16:43 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:26:24 shachaf: Apparently Stripe is unlikely to run the "misuse of crypto" CTF 19:26:28 but we should do it! 19:38:54 -!- barts__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:55:58 the spot where i used to live in NYC is under mandatory evacuation 19:56:23 I need to figure out a good plan to progress in this Dungeons&Dragons game; I need to trap the chancellor and rescue the king. I have some ideas, such as somehow telling the chancellor something by psychic communication (I don't know what to say), to try scrying the chancellor and/or king if possible, I have a few other ideas too but I don't konw all else. 19:57:29 I do have other idea what to do afterward, whether interrogation, anti-magic, to even modify my own memory, make fake plans, various ways to trick anyone trying to figure us out. 19:57:40 And then finally we can kill the demon. 19:58:06 -!- oonbotti has joined. 20:00:33 -!- barts_ has joined. 20:00:54 Do you have any better ideas? 20:01:08 today I learned: mandrake is a hallusiogenic plant 20:01:15 Perhaps it would help to know some more things about the chancellor and about the king. 20:02:06 nortti: Now you know! 20:02:32 it makes me wonder why was mandrake linux named mandrake linux 20:05:01 I don't know either. Maybe Wikipedia will tell you why? 20:06:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:08:17 It doesn't seem to say. I don't see a link tell you why, either. 20:18:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:25:54 -!- barts_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:26:53 -!- barts_ has joined. 20:33:09 -!- monqy has joined. 20:35:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:39:22 kmc: Is this based on new information? 20:40:10 which? 20:41:02 12:26 shachaf: Apparently Stripe is unlikely to run the "misuse of crypto" CTF 20:48:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:49:21 kmc: So a "lens" is just a mapM over some arbitrary structure. 20:49:49 If you want to modify you use Identity. If you want to read you use something like Writer to sneak the values out. 20:50:35 It's pretty nifty the way it all works out. 20:53:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:54:44 shachaf: someone told me this recently, i think it was nelson but it might have been you 20:55:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:55:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 20:55:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:56:28 I don't think I phrased it that way before? 20:57:00 Anyway, it's actually Applicative-style Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) 20:57:09 yeah i think it was nelson 20:57:22 If you restrict it to Functor instead of Applicative, you get an actual lens. 20:57:47 shachaf: that's cool 20:57:55 I have no idea if moving to HexChat was worth it 20:57:58 Because Monoid m => Applicative (Writer m) 20:58:08 Which lets it return zero-or-more values. 20:58:19 Whereas the Functor instance lets it return exactly one value. 20:58:31 It's pretty nifty how it all works out. 20:59:17 (It's actually using Const instead of Writer.) 20:59:37 If you restrict f to Identity or Const, you get read-only or write-only versions. 20:59:40 Sgeo: what is it? 20:59:47 ok, i can google that 21:00:08 kmc: HexChat is a program that lets you talk to people in Hexham. 21:00:37 I apt-get upgraded chromium and now libpdf.so won't work. :-( 21:00:41 Do you use libpdf.so? 21:00:48 shachaf: ah, that makes so much sense 21:01:14 It's rebranded and new direction for XChat-WDK I think 21:01:30 And considers itself to be a successor to X-Chat 21:03:18 ....o...k..... http://www.hexchat.org/home/fakes 21:03:31 * Sgeo is now wondering if he should walk away slowly 21:03:59 if I wrote a blog post about monads in brainfuck, do you think it'd get massively upvoted on proggit? 21:04:08 I probably can't be bothered to either way, btw 21:04:11 I was just curious 21:06:23 monads is brainfuck? 21:07:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:07:18 ais523: i've lost track of where proggit is in the haskell infatuation / haskell backlash cycle 21:07:51 i'm not sure what 'monads in brainfuck' would mean at all 21:07:53 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 21:08:06 unless it means 'monads in a functional language i've implemented on top of brainfuck' 21:08:16 and by "functional" i mean the old definition of "has functions" ;P 21:11:24 fun assignment: run the simplex method by hand 21:11:31 nothing can go wrong right? 21:11:42 Perhaps if you are going to have monads in brainfuck, first you need a category, so that you can have monads. 21:12:52 -!- barts__ has joined. 21:16:21 -!- barts_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:16:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:19:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:20:36 -!- augur has joined. 21:20:46 kmc: nah, you can map the general concept onto BF 21:21:33 you just have to evaluate the higher-order functions by hand 21:22:12 it's basically things like replacing all < and > by << and >> in order to use the cells in between as working space 21:22:25 it's the same sort of idea 21:22:36 zzo38: categories generally aren't hard to find 21:24:06 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:28:02 -!- rapido has joined. 21:32:12 i don't get it 21:32:14 can you elaborate? 21:32:35 are you saying that "replace < with << and then use the space inbetween somehow" is an example of a monad in BF? 21:35:53 by replacing > with >> you have DOUBLED the infinity... that has to boost one's self-confidence! 21:36:24 -!- guest_81723 has joined. 21:37:13 that kind of thing is also very common in computability theory proofs 21:37:19 so it would be interesting if there was a connection to monads there 21:38:21 Phantom_Hoover: hey if you feel like writing an article in your/Taneb's tumblr... http://esolangs.org/wiki/CubeCode 21:39:22 brainfuck with FBUDLR instead of ><+-., AND NO LOOPS 21:39:45 It took two people to make it. 21:39:50 I think that's the saddest thing of all 21:40:17 how many brainfuck derivatives are there? as a power of two. possibly using knuth arrows 21:40:58 2^\aleph_0 21:41:04 the example program is pretty great though 21:41:07 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurf 21:42:01 Arc_Koen: when you said that I thought that maybe it's programmed or visualized in some kind of 3D graphical way and that might be a bit novel 21:42:04 but no 21:42:07 it's just uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurf 21:42:18 It's at least number_of_unicode_codepoints P 8, I think? 21:42:30 P 8? 21:42:49 I don't think it even has to be Unicode, though 21:42:49 somebody had a hack that would record the registers of a program as it runs and make this into sound 21:42:52 yeah, uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurf pretty much sums it all 21:42:52 right? 21:43:01 or is that something i just thought of and then forgot to do and then forgot who invented it 21:43:25 i have definitely seen work regarding the actual noise produced by CPUs and what you can infer from it 21:43:50 Phantom_Hoover, as in, number_of_unicode_codepoints! / (number_of_unicode_codepoints - 8)! 21:44:03 get the cubecode people to make a language such that the execution always sounds like "urf" 21:44:07 I have sometimes put a calculator near a radio receiver to make noise 21:44:30 ohhhh 21:44:32 Sgeo: i thought that was usually denoted binomial[number_of_underscores, 8] in linear text 21:44:47 Bike, I have no idea how to denote stuff in linear text 21:44:57 Underscores? 21:45:03 nope, nPr and nCr are common expressions 21:45:13 how bothersome 21:48:07 I just found about BFJoust, by changing [a]b for ([a{}]b)%-1 you never reach a ], so there's no looping involved and you could thus play it yourself instead of having to program a complete AI 22:00:19 guest_81723: i don't understand 22:00:38 bfjoust 22:02:47 you can avoid any looping on that game, thus changing [] from "while" to "if...else", thus making you able to play it yourself while the game is going 22:06:11 -!- rapido has left. 22:07:03 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:08:06 -!- rapido has joined. 22:08:43 has 'exponential' computation like hash-life been explored yet? 22:09:02 exponential how? 22:10:39 What's a good screenshotting tool for Windows? 22:10:48 Superspeed - going faster in time - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashlife 22:10:59 Phantom_Hoover: infix alphanumeric operators, what is this, Perl? 22:11:00 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:11:07 hashlife can't do exponential computation 22:11:11 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:11:22 Greenshot? 22:11:50 i'm sure there's some precise complexity theoretic approach to it, but hashlife can only superspeed a pattern if it's highly ordered 22:11:57 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 22:12:06 -!- sivoais has joined. 22:12:17 sure - i understand that you need highly ordered structures 22:12:35 but i feel it can be generalized 22:12:56 what do you mean 'generalised' 22:13:07 most other computational systems don't have the overhead life does 22:13:22 spreadsheets? 22:13:32 languages virtually never do, and when they do it's called optimisation 22:14:39 anyway, i've created a data structure that exploits highly ordered patterns 22:14:47 recursively 22:15:03 don't suppose you're aware of computational complexity theory 22:15:14 -!- barts__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:15:16 Bike: why do you think that 22:15:33 i'm very much aware 22:15:57 wait, got the name wrong. kolmogorov and so on. 22:16:00 there this mystical temple in the jungle 22:16:38 does it have hashlife in it 22:17:01 when you get near the door, a deep, hollow voice would say "ARE YOU AWARE" 22:17:04 -!- barts_ has joined. 22:17:30 ok, tell me what you think of this. 22:17:33 The Uniquely Represented Two-Way Immutable Sorted Multimap 22:17:43 hmmmmm 22:18:02 you could call that structure "the wise turtle" 22:18:03 which also happens to be con fluently persistent 22:18:15 i call it the Spread data structure 22:18:20 because its acronym is "TURTWISM" and that sound like "TURTLE-WISDOM" 22:18:34 lol 22:18:47 Spread: the best thing since sliced bread 22:19:09 also "uniquely represented" doesn't tell me much about what it is 22:19:40 "Sorted"... well, your regular list/array/tree could be sorted as well 22:19:42 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dgolovin/papers/btreap.pdf 22:20:15 and "Two-Way Immutable"... I have actually no idea what it could mean 22:20:22 except maybe a double-linked list or something 22:20:26 that cannot be modified 22:20:31 it is actually a binary relation 22:20:50 you know, a table with two columns 22:20:57 you know it must be good because the guy's surname is eastern european 22:21:30 i think 3 of my 4 lecturers right now are eastern european 22:21:32 so you have a table with two columns that always has the same memory representation 22:21:39 is also immutable 22:21:47 but can be changed to create new versions 22:22:04 and it can embed the same structure recursively 22:22:47 i believe it the most general data structure which subsumes all other structures (graphs even) 22:23:22 i'm planning to run a higher-order spreadsheet implementation on top of it 22:23:45 maximally reusing computations - hence the reference to hashlife 22:24:02 * Arc_Koen is so not aware of what a b-treap is 22:24:29 so basically it's some kind of binary tree but with several values in each node? 22:24:42 yes, like an ordinary b-tree 22:24:50 this to maximise io 22:25:21 a treap is a randomised data structure 22:25:59 how can you have a 'most general data structure' 22:26:08 but if you do consistent hashing it folds into a unique representation 22:26:13 relations? 22:26:27 a binary relation is pretty fundamental 22:26:28 at best it'd be so pointlessly general as to have no meaningful 'structure' 22:26:58 oh, that's good - i like that 'at best it'd be so pointlessly general as to have no meaningful 'structure' 22:27:42 a function is a special binary relation 22:27:44 Phantom_Hoover: I have 'the world' 22:27:45 a map also 22:27:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:28:25 there is a whole zoo of special binary relations, which have certain special properties. 22:28:54 you know what the most general thing is 22:28:56 the entity 22:29:00 how general can you want it? or is it like in stargate - "What is this place?" "A confinement room in the infirmary." "Can you be less specific?" "Fine. We're on a planet called Earth." 22:30:14 hmm, the latter answer, while (I suppose) less precise, has more useful information for the otherworldly visitor 22:30:54 what really bothers me is this though: why aren't all planets named Earth? 22:30:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:31:27 some of them are made of sand 22:31:29 or snow 22:31:37 well in stargate every planet but earth and the first other one they discovered has a name like "P3X986" 22:32:03 those are most likely not the native names 22:32:39 well it's a close translation :p 22:33:22 they're actually all called p3x986 22:33:30 interestingly, people from other planets usually talk "a dialect that resembles ancient mesopotamian/chinese/whatever but is in fact exactly like english" 22:33:40 and they're also called that in their native languages 22:34:10 hmm, so we're the odd planet then? what a plot twist 22:34:44 yeah, we're the only planet where not everyone speaks english 22:36:42 Arc_Koen: IIRC those are systematic names derived from the Stargate address. 22:36:51 I will not excuse everything else. 22:37:20 olsner, that's why humans are special man 22:37:33 we're the only ones with distinctive names for things 22:37:39 pikhq: yeah I figured so. though I wonder how they can derive 5-digits names from addresses that are 7-symbols long (and there are more than 20 symbols I think) 22:37:54 then when the aliens invade we're the only ones who can keep track of where they actually invaded 22:38:16 well other planets are usually no more than one village wide 22:38:34 -!- guest_81723 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:38:37 hmm, the aliens might have trouble invading such a small target 22:40:12 Arc_Koen: There's also the two letters. 22:40:19 Still, hrm. 22:40:37 and we have one advantage: the aliens can live for millenia, and thus appear to be very slow at adapting (for instance they still go to war with heavy bodysuits that are completely useless against our "projectile weapons" (actually they are also completely useless against their own "energy weapons") 22:40:47 pikhq: well I'm pretty sure the P stands for "planet" 22:41:30 (they did send a stargate inside of a star once, though) 22:42:20 "What's wrong?" "Nothing, sir. It's just I've never blown up a star before." "... Well. You know what they say. The first one is always the toughest!" 22:42:40 wh 22:42:44 how did they blow up a star 22:42:55 they let go of a stargate inside of it 22:43:18 and I think the stargate was opened on something dangerous 22:43:18 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 22:43:29 fsvo "something" 22:43:30 I should probably fill a pot with water or something 22:43:47 Sgeo: what about hot coffee 22:44:17 i 22:44:21 -!- rapido has joined. 22:44:22 was there a context for that 22:44:33 or did sgeo just inexplicably say he should fill a pot with water 22:44:42 I had four full drinks of coffee today and yet at 9pm I was already very tired 22:44:44 blow up stars => fill pots with water 22:44:53 hmm, sounds consistent 22:45:06 you know in case the star dehydrates you or something 22:45:28 I hear they're quite toasty 22:45:45 Phantom__Hoover, hurricane 22:45:48 wasn't there a stargate that lead into a black hole or something 22:45:55 yes, yes there was 22:46:07 Sgeo, yes i'm sure a single pot of water will save you from dehydration 22:46:16 caused time to slow down a lot 22:46:41 wat 22:46:53 I don't particularly have many pots 22:47:08 like, "OK I'll go talk to the president and will be back in 17 hours. Hey I'm back!" "It's... been 5 minutes, sir." "But I just spent the whole day in the pentagon!" 22:47:16 didn't they do that twice, even 22:47:43 the second time had to be on purpose then 22:49:32 bbbbbbut 22:49:49 time would only slow if the gravity was coming through the stargate too 22:50:03 in which case they... would realise something was up rather sooner than that 22:50:55 yeah it's never been clear what could go through the stargate and what couldn't 22:51:23 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 22:51:35 so far we only know that men can travel one way (depending on what side dialed to the other), and radio waves can travel both ways 22:51:44 but can women?? 22:53:31 that usually causes at least one man from the other world to make advances, but that aside they should be ok 22:55:18 oh 22:55:23 i thought it'd be like 22:55:24 "You're a very attractive woman." "Yeah, let's just fix your ship's unknown original engine with our McGyver-sponsored nuclear reactor, shall we?" is a plot that comes up every other episode 22:55:42 women can only go through the opposite way to men 22:56:03 that would be so sad 22:56:45 though the whole point of the stargate seems to be that when someone dials your planet they can invade and there's nothing you can do to stop them because it only works one way 22:59:25 well, you can put up that wafer-thin metal iris thingy 23:00:51 yeah they invented that two days after the first time they were invaded 23:01:13 the aliens on the other hand have been using gates for millenia and never thought of that 23:01:51 except in that one episode where they discover *one* planet where the aliens had protected the gate using a forcefield (but it never occurred to the aliens to reproduce that on other planets as well) 23:02:58 for some reason I seem to have forgotten most of these episodes 23:05:32 that's because there was no time-travel in those! 23:09:59 so wait, do they just invade by marching right through the gate 23:13:57 yeah, and do the shiny eyes thing 23:14:11 oh 23:14:36 did nobody think to, like, put some sawblades or spikes or some other elaborate deathtrap in front of it 23:15:42 of course not, the gates were originally put up by the good guys, no reason to fear them 23:15:43 well sometimes they do try sending nuclear-ish "rays" trough the stargate 23:15:52 Well, the goa'uld do have ships that they can use to attack any planet that tries to defend their gate 23:16:09 uh 23:16:26 Sgeo: wait, that planet where they discovered Thor for the first time did have an automated weapon aimed at the gate 23:16:29 how is there even any drama then 23:16:50 somehow the goa'uld just figured "we shouldn't go to that planet" and never tried attacking it with a ship 23:16:52 the first season finale was about fighting off the goa-uld ship, right? 23:16:57 yes 23:16:59 "oh look evil aliens are coming through the gate" 23:17:00 "welp" 23:17:10 actually most season finales are about fighting off goa'uld ships 23:17:19 they were pretty big. 23:17:36 Phantom__Hoover: the earth gate had a thingie in front of it that could stop anybody from coming. 23:17:56 it's like, at the end of every season, one goa'uld remembers he actually owns a whole fleet of ships (every one of which could, alone, destroy the earth) and decides to attack 23:18:13 why didn't the gould just show up in their big ship and be like "right turn that off or we glass belgium" 23:18:36 they did, like a billion times, but the earthanoids fought 'em off with their protagonist powers 23:19:15 there's something about this all that's so dumb i can't even get my head around it enough to mock 23:19:22 I guess it takes one season for a goauld to figure that idea out, then they get killed with magic season finale plot powers, and some goauld newbie rises to power and uses the next season to do the same thing 23:19:59 it's kind of a dangerous way to fight a war 23:20:03 Phantom__Hoover, some sort of "treaty" I think? 23:20:18 the "treaty" was a joke, really 23:20:22 actually wasn't belgium specifically threatened, I think I remember that 23:20:46 Arc_Koen, I thought only in that the Asgard tried to make it look like they would be able to fight, but couldn't 23:20:50 yeah icing belgium rings a bell 23:21:16 It's been a while 23:21:23 Sgeo: that, and also the goa'uld were basically like "ok, we won't attack you... unless it's a season final" 23:21:58 was the treaty actually between the gould and the writers 23:22:16 I mean the simple fact that the asgard would respect the treaty and not just wipe the goa'uld out was kind of admitting they couldn't actually fight 23:23:07 to be fair, they might just not want to kill people 23:23:37 wait, there are space vikings as well 23:23:46 yeah the last very-very-advanced people to have such a policy was wiped out 23:23:55 yes, they look like small grey roswell creatures 23:24:06 this reminds me of freespace for some reason 23:24:15 Phantom__Hoover: well you didn't expect the whole galaxy to be filled only with mesopotamians and chinese people did you? 23:24:26 (actually the asgard are not from the same galaxy...) 23:25:43 wait were the genocidal precursors who got wiped out called the ancients by any chance 23:26:06 you sure you haven't seen this show 23:26:33 one day the earth people discovered there was an eighth button on the stargate's keyboard, that somehow they had manage to not see all this time 23:26:48 ok this is totally a ripoff of freespace 23:26:55 What does that do, explode the keyboard? 23:26:59 just like mass effect... 23:27:07 there are lots of buttons, 20-30 ish, it's just the length of the code that is normally 7 but can be 8 23:27:13 so 23:27:16 they're all ripoffs of each other 23:27:28 nobody had up to that point thought of pressing 8 buttons in sequence rather than 7 23:28:00 well, yes, there are 20-30 buttons on the dial-thingy, but the "lenght of the code" is represented as seven "chevrons" on the stargate 23:28:21 Phantom__Hoover: sure, but the "chevrons" don't "lock" unless you juice up the gate with a "zero point module" 23:28:25 I thought if you do that it would just execute the first seven and then use the last key as the first of another sequence of seven? 23:28:58 well they actually hooked their own computers to the gate so you can define it to do anything you want 23:29:15 (because the keyboard was missing) 23:29:47 how inconsiderate 23:29:59 (who built the keyboards) 23:30:09 (when they're stranded on a random planet with no keyboard, they usually don't have computers, so they instead hook up the nuclear reactor they happened to have in their backpack 23:30:15 (the ancients) 23:30:21 oh for fuck's sake 23:31:08 well for what it's worth, the ancients aren't actually all dead, some of them are ghost angels 23:31:16 istr their stargate hacking skills are very plot dependent 23:31:32 also the ancients "are still there somewhere, but have a policy not to interfere in all the wars going on because interfering would be morally reprehensible" (even though there would be no war at all if they hadn't built the gates in the first place) 23:31:56 when did this turn into a stargate discussion 23:32:11 some time today 23:32:57 blame Arc_Koen 23:33:02 I believe we were talking about wise turtles climbing binary trees and then all of a sudden there was a stargate in the conversation 23:34:32 there's not enough innuendo in this discussion 23:34:37 we were talking about generality, and then planet naming conventions and then ... 23:34:44 the stargate is a vagina 23:35:00 oh 23:35:02 ok 23:35:10 oh hey we had the giving-birth class today 23:35:19 also for the record the goauld did attack the planet with the defense thing in front of the stargate 23:35:20 unfortunately there was no practice for that class 23:35:26 they brought a ship 23:35:42 according to the plot it was because the defense thing was blowed up by the protagonists 23:35:44 coppro: the defense thing and the planet had been there for several thousand years 23:36:08 they never mention how the goauld figured this out though 23:36:24 I was gonna say that 23:36:44 maybe there was a spy in the viking people? 23:36:53 it's ok, it still makes more sense than the entire premise of universe 23:37:02 except for the part where destiny refuels by diving into a star 23:37:04 shit was awesome 23:37:28 I tried watching an episode from stargate universe 23:37:32 in universe, they decide that they already spawned one spinoff using the 8th chevron 23:37:39 that was so COMPLICATED 23:37:46 but stargates are nonagonal, so clearly there was room for another spinoff 23:37:52 haha 23:38:02 but dialing nine chevrons is hard, so they had to get a high school kid to do it 23:38:04 seriously? I never really took a close look at the stargate 23:38:11 and with little training he realized the trick 23:38:18 to dial the ninth chevron you have to use a button that isn't on the stargate 23:38:26 he just hooked up his pocket nuclear reacotr, didn't he 23:38:41 no see every stargate has a unique origin symbol 23:38:48 ohhhhh 23:38:52 in order to dial to destiny you needed to not use that stargate's origin symbol 23:38:55 instead you had to use earth's 23:39:01 what 23:39:05 the logic being that you had to be dialing from earth 23:39:15 of course, the earth stargate isn't the original stargate anyhow 23:39:32 I think they destroyed the original stargate once or twice 23:39:36 except during seasons four through six, when it was actually the antartic original stargate 23:39:56 you've obviously been thinking way too much about this 23:39:57 but it still had the same origin symbol because redoing the prop would have been expensive and the unique symbol on the stargate was kind of a symbol of the show 23:40:12 why is weird alien shit always in the antarctic 23:40:29 Phantom__Hoover: because it makes for good deus ex machina 23:40:42 because it's weird and empty (supposedly!!) 23:40:45 Because everything is under a huge chunk of ice 23:40:52 Giving a good excuse to why we haven't found it 23:40:53 oh, yeah, that woman who happened to be more than 65 million years old was in the antarctic as well 23:41:01 Same reason something would be on the moon, or on mars 23:41:15 Or under Earth's surface 23:42:05 "but there were supposedly no humans 65 million years ago!" "yeah, and she can't have been brought back through time travel, because it is well-known that time-travel isn't possible" 23:42:23 except when it is 23:42:27 (even though *we* did do it once or twice during the holidays) 23:42:52 you can't have people running around doing time travel outside the time travel episodes 23:42:55 ^ 23:43:39 oh 23:43:43 they did not mention that 23:43:57 also the best line in the entire series 23:44:02 "it's my sidearm I swear" 23:44:05 Refuse to use a time machine to save the entire galaxy, use the time machine to retrieve some power source to help boost a colony's defenses 23:44:58 kind of like how the prime directive only applies if disobeying it would save billions 23:45:22 it somehow makes sense though, use time travel to change a major event and Bad Things happen to the space-time continuum, use it to save a handful of people and nothing significant will change 23:45:23 Sgeo: also to prevent an entire expedition from dying 23:45:38 changes to the timeline after the part where you go back in time are okay too 23:45:50 so you're saying the space-time continuum is somewhat elastic 23:46:03 also completely nonsensical stable time loops are also permitted 23:46:16 but those were AWESOME 23:46:21 when time travel doesn't work like that any other time 23:46:34 they got to play golf in the stargate 23:46:41 oh that was awesome 23:46:44 but I wasn't talking about that 23:46:48 I mean in the time travel episodes 23:46:54 where time does the many worlds thing 23:47:01 uh? 23:47:05 except where it's needed to provide deus ex machina so that the guys can make it back through time 23:47:10 I thought you were talking about window of opportunity 23:47:12 no 23:47:12 2010/2001 uses a different model of time travel from 1969 23:47:16 ^ 23:47:27 oh, ok 23:47:40 not to mention Unending, Morpheus, the Atlantis one, and the movie 23:47:54 is morpheus the one where cody has dreams 23:48:01 s/cody/whatshisname 23:48:03 no it's the one where they go back in time to get the ZPM 23:48:11 coppro, Mobius 23:48:14 bah 23:48:16 quiet you 23:48:22 zpm? 23:48:25 zero point module 23:48:31 I don't remember that 23:48:36 magical power source 23:48:37 is that from sg1? 23:48:44 near the end of season 8 23:48:48 Mentioned in SG-1 a few times, more prominent in Atlantis 23:48:51 oh, i'm only in the middle of season 7 23:49:02 zpms first show up in the season 7 finale 23:49:13 well then I'd rather not read too much about it 23:49:15 which is fucking fantastic and why aren't you watching your way through the rest of the season 23:49:24 hmm, wasn't stargate the one that got farscape's actors after it was cancelled as a final "fuck you it's not coming back" 23:49:29 yes 23:49:39 also watch season 8 in lockstep with atlantis season 1 23:49:39 * Phantom__Hoover narrows eyes 23:49:44 then watch the rest of atlantis 23:49:56 will I like atlantis? 23:50:00 probably 23:50:05 I didn't understand anything from universe 23:50:14 then watch season 1 of universe 23:50:16 and you're done 23:50:21 I failed to do the lockstep thing, it's much too much work to figure out what the proper viewing order is 23:50:24 they were is some kind of ship, somewhere, sometime 23:50:30 coppro, I thought season 2 was considered to be better 23:50:38 Although season 1's Time was good 23:50:38 Sgeo: not to me 23:50:47 time was one of the best stargate episodes of all series 23:50:50 and they arrived in a planet and they said "hey this is a thousand year old" and then "wait the history books are talking about us" 23:50:55 air was really good too 23:51:23 I used to use the music from Air to help me concentrate on homework 23:51:35 anyway I'll watch a couple episodes now, see you later 23:51:40 i recall elliott saying universe is the voyager of stargate 23:51:46 it's a shame that seasons 9 and 10 are full of random shit because they have some really good episodes 23:51:50 Phantom__Hoover: yes 23:52:03 like beachead and the pegasus project and unending 23:52:04 hmm, and atlantis might be the DS9 23:52:16 I have yet to finish DS9 23:52:23 honestly I think universe is more like the enterprise 23:52:32 Sgeo, why 23:52:33 Phantom__Hoover: i enjoyed watching universe but i also enjoy watching voyager 23:52:39 wtf how is sgu still going 23:52:42 although I suppose that it is closer to sg-1 seasons 9 and 10 23:52:44 elliott, it's not 23:52:44 elliott: it's not 23:52:46 oh it isn't 23:52:51 elliott: it was killed one season late 23:52:53 The series finale was a cliffhanger 23:52:54 (after season 2) 23:52:55 but how did it get two seasons 23:53:01 i thought everyone had universally decided it was awful 23:53:08 I like the first half season 23:53:15 elliott, I liked it 23:53:19 it started really sucking when they tried too hard to bring earth into it 23:53:30 and then the lucian alliance was this big fuckyou to anyone who wanted anything interesting out of it 23:53:36 and then the random aliens 23:53:40 I think SGU survived only on the hope that it might eventually stop sucking 23:53:53 the first half of season 1 didn't have all that random baggage 23:53:55 And by the time it stopped sucking, it was cancelled 23:54:02 and was just 'ohfuckhowdowesurvive' and was sweet 23:54:21 did it actually stop sucking near the end? 23:54:24 I never finished it 23:54:41 Uh, I'm not the best on matters of taste 23:55:07 It's more 'ohfuckhowdowesurvive' to a good extent, but largely the same threat over those episodes 23:55:50 ok actually the one where rush goes all the way back to the planet in air was pretty good to 23:55:53 *too 23:56:19 How do I convince coppro to finish SGU 23:56:32 Phantom__Hoover, oh, and as for why I haven't finished DS9: Haven't gotten around to it yet 23:56:34 sgu tried to capitalise way too much on ~edgy danger~ 23:56:43 which was ok for a few episodes but then it was boring 23:56:57 Sgeo: busy rewatching sg1 at the moment 23:57:04 also yugioh the abridged series 23:57:13 so can we talk about something i've watched instead 23:57:18 no 23:57:20 let's talk about how no popular scifi tv series has ever lived up to ds9 instead 23:57:26 except maybe babylon 5 but i never got around to watching that 23:57:46 farscape is pretty good! although i can't make judgements between things i like 23:58:03 Phantom__Hoover: you could just watch everything we talk about 23:58:10 no 23:58:12 im hipster