< 1350086408 369359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Distributed as source code in a pre-extracted tar file" < 1350086410 356231 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeithW is using it also for his awesome dynamic bitrate inferential flow control videoconferencing thingy < 1350086414 37224 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/keithw/alfalfa < 1350086426 97922 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this may have started as a complete copy of the mosh repo... < 1350086432 99993 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's a videoconferencing program < 1350086449 393127 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slash an academically relevant demonstration of something that could be turned into a videoconferencing program < 1350086451 318861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same SSP protocol! < 1350086489 621360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350086494 791677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's what SSP stands for. < 1350086498 206458 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, with one modification < 1350086510 467669 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot which though < 1350086542 369738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :supplemental super proteins < 1350086562 741447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'The major modification we made to SSP to support Alfalfa is that in Mosh, “diff” and “patch” are round-trip operations, so the protocol is lossless. In Alfalfa, the “diffs” are lossy and the available length for a diff varies according to Sprout’s forecast window size.' < 1350086587 882367 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1350086604 302033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you then re-apply the lossy diff locally, so that errors don't accumulate < 1350086632 910449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here "diff" = MPEG-2 P-frames < 1350086660 401620 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350086667 29677 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sanyo’s “SSP” is the most horrible protocol i’ve ever seen. < 1350086678 91898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses MPEG-2 not because that's actually a good choice for videoconferencing but because keith had to implement a custom variable bitrate encoder in like three days < 1350086708 489844 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it uses bayesian estimation to figure out the maximum bitrate it can send with only a 5% chance of a delay larger than 100ms (i think) < 1350086808 257585 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish all software did that. < 1350086876 428956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How're your adventures in JavaScriptland, by the way? < 1350086879 853397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wherever it is you are. < 1350086888 772504 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good < 1350086893 548454 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am enjoying my job < 1350086898 160317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :MakingAUsefulThingland < 1350086904 35678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have been working on the thing for a month and a half and have made a ton of progress < 1350086914 561118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the thing still secret? < 1350086955 896864 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350087477 989566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is making a bomb < 1350087482 737393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in javascript < 1350087494 586772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ø̈h nø̈ < 1350087540 790586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ø̈ḧ¨n̈ø̈ < 1350087555 269689 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days I just tell myself "hey let's go to bed now before it gets late" and then before I have successfully gone to bed I tell myself "hey I should take a look at that Emmental language it seemed really interesting" or anything of the like and it overwrites the previous resolution and IT'S 2:30AM ALREADY and today is one of those days < 1350087578 299554 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnight < 1350087582 430374 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1350087591 205154 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I woke up before 08:00 today! < 1350087593 592740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was crazy. < 1350087734 693788 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd you manage that? < 1350087780 154889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happened. < 1350087810 534461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally when I need to wake up early I set several alarm clocks and still have a lowish probability of it doing any good. < 1350087811 254942 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1350087815 924033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you feel about this event? < 1350087829 840477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like waking up early. < 1350087835 582972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it happens on its own and I'm not tired. < 1350088154 876031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waking up early is awful < 1350088162 392531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no good reason for hours less than 12 to exist < 1350088207 808752 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350088211 657491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 01:00 is a perfectly good time to be awake. < 1350088233 466366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott probably believes in Random Standard Time. < 1350088251 557688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what is shachaf talking about < 1350088259 493083 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1350088269 375955 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: RST goes from 06:00 to 29:59 < 1350088270 240433 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread killed btw < 1350088280 977261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc probably knows more about it than I do. < 1350088299 681671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dammit < 1350088303 996874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: shut up let me war with monqy in peace < 1350088322 720348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What war are you having? < 1350088328 802209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot war? < 1350088353 122435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a personal war < 1350088369 258615 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread killed btw < 1350088379 609526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 06:00 is wrong anyway < 1350088383 505326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i'm often still up at that time < 1350088391 56335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:00 would be a reasonable roll-over probably < 1350088406 67941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this command even work again < 1350088411 491912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh like that < 1350088416 665984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@admin - elliott < 1350088418 846768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ignore + elliott < 1350088425 360835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess monqy wins :'( < 1350088575 440086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Phantom__Hoover elliott monqy et all, recent update if you didn't see it < 1350088586 652171 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*et al < 1350088597 305727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350088599 385287 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1350088648 184832 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sghello < 1350088656 457776 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :creative liberties, artistic license < 1350088667 795753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i didn't know you coded perl < 1350088693 197568 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to know some perl but then i forgot it < 1350088702 824993 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i';ve only written one perl thing in my entire life < 1350088714 189185 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :iused to forgot all perl but thenr i learned it :"( < 1350088728 634578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_License < 1350088767 847755 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1350088796 930023 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350088798 210819 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it! < 1350088803 379691 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty about the other artistic license though < 1350088805 684621 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite license < 1350088813 849478 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350088860 936598 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgets whether there's a way for non-admins to privately message lambdabot to get it to say something in channel < 1350088882 747442 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's obviously someone in here who can do it, shachaf I think? < 1350088889 78247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350088918 335964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is lying. It's me. < 1350088947 165826 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf vs shachaf, FIGHT! < 1350088989 138573 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whether or not the original Artistic License is a free software license is largely unsettled. It was criticized by the Free Software Foundation as being "too vague; some passages are too clever for their own good, and their meaning is not clear."" < 1350088990 971816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is lying < 1350089008 432411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stop @admin-ing me :'( < 1350089011 695324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too clever for their own good? Like some Perl code? < 1350089027 464101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like all Haskell code? < 1350089219 136281 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1350089259 201407 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350090424 744444 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not all haskell code is clever =P < 1350090437 825741 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: All Haskell code I've ever written < 1350090466 562285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all things FreeFull says are clever. < 1350090487 234174 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I say none of them are < 1350090904 920364 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091601 677108 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091601 677846 :slbkbs!~shachaf@c-76-126-243-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091601 677923 :slbkbs!~shachaf@c-76-126-243-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1350091601 678002 :slbkbs!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091609 513630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1350091612 758826 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350091623 939065 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091685 744486 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1350091722 960488 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1350091822 167419 :slbkbs!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Quit: adieu < 1350092037 789172 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350092086 782636 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350092213 450370 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp:Clojure::Tcl:??? < 1350092219 415382 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants the ??? language < 1350092242 313094 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350092316 275189 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ???=Clojure < 1350092350 130712 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure has CL-style macros, when I think I really like Tcl-style I-don't-know-what-to-call-it < 1350092380 558254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fexprs? Except, if Kernel is said to have fexprs, it's not quite it < 1350092427 96144 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl: a Tcl-expr lisp. < 1350092427 808528 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1350092469 328533 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about strings < 1350092562 337011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say I like the string aspect < 1350092586 677492 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the idea of being able to dynamically generate the code that a control structure will see < 1350092636 685270 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly it hurts compilability and any code-walking ability < 1350092664 30658 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do anything good < 1350092680 791506 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be pretty sad if something so crazy was entirely useless and just a huge mess for losers!!! < 1350092776 858357 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It comes to mind whenever I see someone complain about how some macro they want to use won't accept a variable containing a symbol or a vector in place of where the macro usually accepts a symbol or vector < 1350093101 611488 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350093184 193570 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350093453 951221 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, why exactly am I chatting on the W:A chat as though anyone actually chats? < 1350093481 802397 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snooper.worms2d.info/ < 1350093569 937681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you asking #esoteric, Sgeo < 1350093585 315859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Twist: #esoteric is W:A caht. < 1350094135 479899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs omee < 1350094163 774528 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17397 < 1350094855 157217 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350096541 319681 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1350097680 151921 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should attempt to implement ALPACA in Clojure < 1350097923 530800 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpaca meat is fairly tasty < 1350097965 367888 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, it's better than nothing, unless it isn't < 1350098798 448632 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does catseye keep 404ing on me? < 1350098803 893140 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/alpaca/doc/alpaca.html < 1350098816 568323 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Game of Life link and the WireWorld link both 404 on me < 1350098831 835486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost complained that ALPACA cheats, but that's REDGREEN not ALPACA cheating < 1350098845 923367 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good catch < 1350098870 834521 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you have a chance at winning the: catch of the year award???? I think you do < 1350098892 509362 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to compete with the fishers but all they catch are fish < 1350099037 822641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sometimes they catch other things by accident < 1350099042 95185 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do it in ClojureScript, not Clojure < 1350099059 936692 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I kind of hate ClojureScript. A "lisp" with macros in a different language and no eval. < 1350099066 523621 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it in "clozure" < 1350099075 898623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is the joke clozure common lisp < 1350099078 745069 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1350099083 698188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great joke < 1350099111 807550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i have a joke monqy < 1350099127 455689 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i'm fresh out < 1350099133 622219 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my final joke < 1350099135 887094 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4the last one < 1350099142 304902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sinister < 1350099146 334472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of living if you don't have jokes to tell. < 1350099147 887805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about just a pub < 1350099150 813006 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a pun < 1350099157 491489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant a pun but a pub would also do < 1350099214 31285 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is APALCA's only full documentation the Perl implementation? < 1350099274 930036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apalca < 1350099287 416815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ALPACA < 1350099359 324570 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, REDGREEN's source probably serves as documentation < 1350099390 462498 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O cpressey writes useful code? < 1350099723 252929 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350099735 959035 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350099743 925713 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can REDGREEN fish interact with the rest of the REDGREEN world? < 1350099766 108867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the GoL simulation interacting with WireWorld < 1350099859 830004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a } is just Curry's paradox. < 1350099870 554229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nifty, eh? < 1350100089 580057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: curry's paradox doesn't work because you have to mix logic with common sense to get the best results < 1350100091 693216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a wise man once told me this < 1350100226 645693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are the ingredients of a delicious curry. < 1350100531 877093 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-31-108.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1350100623 819334 :kinoSi0!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350100651 455996 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1350101187 646885 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DuctTape is flammable. < 1350101225 982870 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll keep that in mind < 1350101236 996555 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350101560 97164 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : let's train a new generation of programmers capable only of thinking functionally, leaving us with the high-paying procedural maintenance < 1350101806 95098 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350101996 370590 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350102362 545532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so Himera needs a server. < 1350102376 92024 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Himera is a web-based REPL for ClojureScript) < 1350102435 786490 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this bothers me. < 1350102451 870463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for letting us all know, Sgeo < 1350103099 119174 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1350103134 471268 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350103522 181651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350104841 852492 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steam is Steamy. Good to know. < 1350106324 713871 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1350106334 80869 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350106364 67540 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350106563 679345 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ivan is alive? < 1350106594 138553 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, this is surprising to you? < 1350106658 38557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't it be? < 1350107141 590485 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1350107351 930850 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350107621 903954 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350108207 856254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now running memtest86+ v4.20 < 1350108214 104231 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :test memory everyday < 1350108362 805735 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350108505 223355 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350110864 351119 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350111170 769478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :achievement unlocked: mounted boot drive using only duct tape < 1350111264 479159 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps looking at redgreen.alp < 1350111288 142886 :evincar!~jon@70.42.240.22 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1350111358 946929 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that is roughly all i know about random standard time < 1350111378 698216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is? < 1350111386 85261 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you said < 1350111389 381699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1350111405 332699 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes from 06h to 29h, with the numbers under 24 lining up with normal time < 1350111424 143198 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think in some real world contexts both 00h and 24h are used < 1350111429 423362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to denote beginning or end of day resp. < 1350113427 293700 :carado!~user4539@78.250.130.164 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350114378 211960 :carado!~user4539@78.250.130.164 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350115171 77849 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my college so full of idiots < 1350115198 89718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, a bunch of students ignored a fire drill, then ignored a seminar that they were required to attend because they didn't participate in the fire drill. < 1350115203 694009 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are now expelled from the dorms. < 1350115256 669366 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1350116444 279442 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, I think I found a mistake in cpressey's REDGREEN implementation < 1350116504 672118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fish in water are supposed to follow GoL rules. But one fish surrounded by 8 fish will turn into air (not a GoL cell state) rather than water (GoL dead) < 1350116532 338492 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the precedence of the state transitions is opposite of what I think it is < 1350117055 880417 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350117235 466955 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I think I'm right and cpressey is wrong. < 1350117417 325965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think it's first-matching, too. < 1350117443 945151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you could just try it out. < 1350117485 164525 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we talking about < 1350117501 814314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: REDGREEN's ALPACA spe < 1350117507 67856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curse my fingers. < 1350117521 543824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to make that "Arc_Koen: Fish.", to be more mysterious. < 1350117526 103299 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, looking at the generated Perl also suggests it's first-matching < 1350117526 250532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I spoiled the whole thing. < 1350117578 540240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just looked at the Perl generating the Perl, but it did, too. < 1350117594 741590 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: according to the logs the discussion about alpaca and redgreen started four hours ago < 1350117633 611700 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's actually what you were talking about ? < 1350117656 442139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1350117686 242577 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl generating the Perl gives me a headache of confusion < 1350118177 902096 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1350118666 54223 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does fungot speak REDGREEN? < 1350118666 975953 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and the same buttons to page up and page down in aterm. oh, you are just making a bad optimization for fun < 1350118680 901410 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad optimizations for fun! < 1350119085 853869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350119492 225871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350119532 159953 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350120297 877073 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1350120357 483359 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1350120703 146434 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG < 1350120718 356315 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I accidentally erased the brainfuck interpreter I had written in thue < 1350120757 873936 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the backups! < 1350120860 854459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god prison architect's in open alpha!!!!! < 1350121003 611958 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: fortunately I pasted it to sprunge.us and copied the link here and it's in the logs < 1350121198 764727 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it turns out § is not ascii < 1350121243 337528 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did you think it was? < 1350121272 149519 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think that was the problem < 1350121305 38824 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it kinda screwed the file < 1350121319 8095 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaced § with ¬ß (which is not ascii either, that's weird) < 1350122193 766014 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1350122193 884875 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1350123729 422995 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not screw files, shall we? < 1350124127 843276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seven bits is not enough for miracles. At least ASCII has both upper- and lowercase. < 1350124551 162113 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1350124555 585991 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1350124981 602107 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need only 6 bits for A-Za-z0-9, who needs the rest < 1350125862 903120 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1350125987 168971 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes a bit of punctuation is good too. < 1350126505 190375 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :get access to GAME BREAKING BUGS < 1350126738 56976 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350127205 678363 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350127224 880760 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1350127248 717990 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350127930 582108 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350127973 147799 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350130008 507389 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1350130224 961855 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may seem odd but < 1350130251 977531 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric is: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | < 1350130262 349407 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | < 1350130271 38710 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E156 < 1350130279 487469 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :5E03EBF2 | ZARDOZ created ZARDOZ; all else is the work of < 1350130290 617910 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZARDOZ | New channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nak < 1350130302 547031 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :edgrandmas.jpg | Old-style channel logs: http://codu.org/logs/_es < 1350130311 707529 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oteric/ < 1350130321 529587 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric set by zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.c < 1350130326 264939 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it is looking more odd the further you go < 1350130335 218627 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a at Sat Oct 13 04:37:01 2012 < 1350130358 786872 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arbitrary line breaks are new information < 1350130412 296081 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, zzo probably put weird ascii in there < 1350130424 987280 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1350130438 770115 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. thats just the linebreaks based on the width of my xchat window < 1350130443 68537 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was implementing the . instruction in my brainfuck interpreter in thue < 1350130448 396598 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Dave. He's like "Okay. You can do this. DON'T hit the cymbals as hard as you fucking can!" < 1350130452 147563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: so what is the odd thing? < 1350130484 56899 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the odd thing was me re-posting the topic with the linebreaks based on the width of my xchat window < 1350130490 177846 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1350130500 502706 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I though "I'd do characters 32-126 manually, and characters above 128 can be detected easily since they have a 1 as their most significant digit < 1350130512 310832 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I do all characters 32-126 manually < 1350130514 515934 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1350130536 78540 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realize I did all that with the . marker right to the number < 1350130546 158780 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most significant digit is left to the number < 1350130573 886896 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so i can't detect it) < 1350130599 685863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so the oddest part about that whole thing was that nothing was odd in the first place < 1350130600 882914 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean I have to do it all over again? < 1350130601 955584 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... except itidus, I guess he's a bit odd < 1350130677 872205 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell itidus21 about that null stack you were so impressed about: I thought maybe a copy stack that would do exactly the opposite: instead of destroying everything that's pushed onto it (and being always empty) it keeps copy of everything that's popped from it (and is never empty) < 1350130678 496840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1350130759 445386 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok one cheap way to cover my mistake without redoing everything manually is to consider ascii characters mod 128 < 1350130785 371542 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, characters 128-255 would be equivalent to characters 0-127 < 1350130817 149101 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I could just say I don't care and trying to output a character outside the range 0-127 causes the program to halt < 1350130825 963647 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that should be good enough < 1350130851 420813 :spamdribble!~Dad@c-24-16-123-144.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350130904 400041 :spamdribble!~Dad@c-24-16-123-144.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1350131163 257391 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1350131556 522223 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouuuuuuuuh works with the Hello World program from the esolangs.org brainfuck page! < 1350131654 408208 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: congratulations < 1350131677 290431 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm gonna send an email to the guy who wrote the thue interpreter I'm using < 1350131727 620516 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows to run the thue program step by step or at any speed and to see the current state of the program and that's a very valuable debugging tool < 1350132313 852197 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350132327 639809 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1350133307 334351 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350133407 953270 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1350133704 792150 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350134913 532106 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely No Words http://youtu.be/pquYAEfbBFM < 1350135447 963786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's slightly disturbing < 1350135624 222968 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350135961 421758 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1350138066 908112 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1350138294 878403 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1350138755 382198 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1350139322 779321 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1350139334 93988 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1350139591 132870 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350140716 662803 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f568.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350140776 644155 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f568.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350140794 939707 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1350140877 563245 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350141125 228001 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1350141545 801782 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1350141626 837868 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1350141824 889897 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1350142009 722045 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-31-108.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1350142169 878610 :nooga!~nooga@77-254-80-68.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1350142965 879142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1350144726 442448 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1350144800 687588 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350144903 998383 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350146084 281893 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1350146320 289580 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-27-216.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350146324 125533 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350146632 379135 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350146851 879399 :nooga!~nooga@77-254-80-68.adsl.inetia.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1350147383 236927 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350147722 197297 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell? < 1350147735 505719 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook just told me that somebody I don't know accepted /my/ friend request. < 1350147939 301171 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D Someone had made a friend request to me ages ago, but i didn’t recognize the name immediately and didn’t get around to looking up who he was until today. It turns out it was you and i accepted. < 1350148024 924248 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dafaq, why would I friend you, I hate you. I MEAN, NOTHING. < 1350148046 900875 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :More tot he point, I don't remember ever doing this, or for that matter, ever friending anyone from #esoteric other than pikhq >_> < 1350148059 297791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion = pikhq < 1350148070 65967 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1350148126 204523 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I know what ion looks like. Just like I imagined, really. < 1350148135 1235 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Only me? Hah. < 1350148163 889000 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have “friends”, I only have “acquaintances I tolerate”. < 1350148169 504588 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1350148182 734809 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 17:36:14 -0700 Subject: Gregor Richards haluaa olla kaverisi Facebookissa. < 1350148206 757751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :haluaa olla kaferisi Facebookissa < 1350148221 601578 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :June? May as well be 1960. < 1350148247 64570 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haruā orra kaferishi fēsubūkkissa < 1350148289 374056 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350148295 539860 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1350148359 713759 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1350148444 852281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, if I break my system, fix it. < 1350148455 221390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what I'm doing, so I probabiy will break it. < 1350148474 802572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1350148478 26048 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers love coffee. < 1350148485 628920 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should pour a whole pot on it. < 1350148529 448602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Weeeell, I'm removing my separate ext2 /boot partition and merging it into my JFS / at the same time as switching from MBR to GPT. < 1350148543 814179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make room for a 2 MiB partition GRUB2 apparently needs on GPT systems. < 1350148554 215089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm fairly certain my system is going to stop booting in a few minutes. < 1350148574 733047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound like something almost guaranteed to break your system < 1350148582 484665 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You *might* want to make a boot disk of some sort. < 1350148601 457303 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what's up with people trying out GPT < 1350148606 933440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I have a USB drive with an Arch thing on it. < 1350148619 694168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So probably I can just boot from that if it goes wrong. < 1350148623 358793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea where it *is*, mind you. < 1350148685 369871 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I switched to GPT when my 3TB HD forced me to ;) < 1350148699 462681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK; writing new GUID partition table (GPT) to /dev/sda. < 1350148699 611303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: The kernel is still using the old partition table. < 1350148699 692213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new table will be used at the next reboot. < 1350148699 692379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The operation has completed successfully. < 1350148705 520208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey does anyone know how I can force the kernel to reload the partition table? < 1350148708 430216 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: MBR is almost tolerable if you've got a small enough HD. < 1350148710 278241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, currently looking at my MBR table. < 1350148714 279632 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How did it force you to? < 1350148715 940908 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: And besides, this is new interestingness. < 1350148721 359213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the problem is I want GRUB to see the partition I just made or something. < 1350148725 870949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: mbr is limited to 2 tb < 1350148728 139933 :micrypt!~micrypt@oftn/member/micrypt JOIN :#esoteric < 1350148729 415506 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Erm. I dunno. < 1350148749 605613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME micrypt < 1350148749 725934 :brownies!~brownies@unaffiliated/brownies JOIN :#esoteric < 1350148760 31127 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MICRYPT: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1350148764 155651 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can't you just have the boot partition setup < 1350148766 192439 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE brownies < 1350148770 848410 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrOwNiEs: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) < 1350148784 13239 :brownies!~brownies@unaffiliated/brownies PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1350148788 248305 :micrypt!~micrypt@oftn/member/micrypt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Hi there, folks. < 1350148815 707482 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: That doesn't help you if you cannot *represent partitions for the whole drive*. < 1350148821 884058 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what was done in the olden days when the BIOSes didn't support booting partitions larger than 528MB < 1350148823 748236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :micrypt: They don't actually ever talk about esolangs in here. < 1350148831 560343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nice, apparently tar doesn't save symlinks. < 1350148833 407959 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I see < 1350148835 893604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1350148837 303188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait, it does. < 1350148876 188672 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's other file types tar doesn't preserve, though. < 1350148907 472226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, let's reboot. < 1350148913 959652 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does tar preserve fifos? < 1350148914 973761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350148947 89498 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legacy tar only handles normal files, hard links, and soft links. Sane tar also preserves character specials, block specials, directories, and FIFOs.' < 1350149000 938064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1350149006 239287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... booted perfectly. < 1350149008 381393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm baffled. < 1350149013 596299 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll note it still doesn't handle named sockets. < 1350149016 773828 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Awesome. < 1350149025 991295 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then BAM < 1350149035 165373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not meant to be possible to fiddle about with that many things related to your boot process in one go and still have it work first try. < 1350149043 305709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I messed up the conversion and it's still MBR??? < 1350149075 267403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, nope, gdisk says it's GPT. < 1350149098 497922 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet dmesg says what the kernel thinks it is. < 1350149102 327019 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have both GPT and MBR at the same time < 1350149111 308287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah, but gdisk says I just have the protective MBR thing. < 1350149129 676850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dmesg | grep -i gpt gives nothing. < 1350149136 607795 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Linux doesn't like that though < 1350149144 923425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same applies to | grep -i mbr. < 1350149146 469259 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeBSD does but who uses FreeBSD? =P < 1350149147 417631 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember trying to set MBR back up after accidentally the GPT < 1350149188 337518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Huh? Linux manages it fine, I thought. < 1350149218 14257 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeBSD does it a bit better than Linux, but Linux doesn't *utterly break* on hybrid MBR configs. < 1350149236 355807 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux only uses MBR or GPT, not both. < 1350149255 617556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of upset that I didn't get any fancy breakage. < 1350149285 716722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should enable [testing] for more fun. < 1350149286 864568 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, from what I gather, the easiest way to check would be to see if /boot is a separate filesystem. < 1350149293 5370 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1350149308 34814 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, partitioning and boot loader setup is so boring when it just works < 1350149323 548478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, there's no /boot mounted, it's definitely GPT... < 1350149333 408408 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bad is it to use an SSD with the wrong sector size? < 1350149357 263694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think it's just slightly slower. < 1350149374 619434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey, the ghc package got updated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1350149379 299010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to blow away /opt/ghc and break everything. < 1350149381 322636 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It will show the GPT partitions, or the MBR partitions, but not both at the same time < 1350149387 351009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 7.2 finally? < 1350149395 307822 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the drive < 1350149412 807312 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :And which ones it shows depends on if you booted it from GPT or MBR < 1350149504 271321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 7.6.1. < 1350149582 486428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eurgh, the package only provides Cabal 1.16.0. < 1350149587 896686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess upgrading probably won't work. < 1350149600 624823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: That seems OK though, since in hybrid configurations you keep the two tables synchronised. < 1350149636 126755 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, to the extent possible. < 1350149662 376433 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably if you're using a gigantic HD in a dual boot config, you don't try to keep track of your partition that goes over the 2TB boundary) < 1350149742 463247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just going to not install Windows until using a UEFI system. < 1350149765 961141 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the best option. < 1350149830 643969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like the things I'd want a Windows partition for are viable on this machine, anyway... mostly games and this system is sort of crappy. < 1350150121 846428 :brownies!~brownies@unaffiliated/brownies PART :#esoteric < 1350150344 500271 :micrypt!~micrypt@oftn/member/micrypt PART :#esoteric < 1350151611 403208 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1350151622 331648 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, uh. Technically possible to use EFI with MBR. < 1350151633 456892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds unwise < 1350151644 384361 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your MBR partition scheme just needs to have an EFI system partition and it "just works". < 1350151689 779361 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only benefit I can see here is if you wanted to image a giant bunch of disks with the same OS install and have it work identically on BIOS and EFI. < 1350151713 568505 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, hypothetically speaking, it's an OS that doesn't boot from GPT on BIOS. < 1350152134 483070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetically < 1350152223 907660 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough*fuckyouwindows*cough* < 1350152263 194371 :micrypt!~micrypt@oftn/member/micrypt JOIN :#esoteric < 1350152768 119328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME micrypt < 1350152772 656480 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​MICRYPT: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANG < 1350152862 567645 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, zenkaku Roman. < 1350152912 766947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wish I could get rid of all these 32-bit libraries. < 1350152925 584331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Dwarf Fortress is still 32-bit only, though. < 1350152929 655985 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considering replacing all with musl? < 1350152947 802848 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of, I really need to help finish glibc ABI compat on musl one of these days. < 1350152954 760825 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :enjoy!zenkaku < 1350152969 518793 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1350152970 467604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't see how musl helps. < 1350152981 848861 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't directly. < 1350152987 373515 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes me happier. < 1350152995 162897 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like helping. < 1350153015 996219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of doubt musl's binary compatibility is good enough to use all of Arch's glibc-based binary packages with it. < 1350153028 408005 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why I need to finish it. < 1350153045 137329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1350153047 784126 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm aware, the single largest gaping hole is the lack of the _FORTIFY_SOURCE functions. < 1350153075 359753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about those warnings you get about needing dynamically-loaded stuff if you statically link with glibc? Does musl have to do anything to support that kind of stuff? < 1350153084 106247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that the packages are statically-linked, but you know what I mean. < 1350153097 555054 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What those are is functions in glibc that call dlopen... < 1350153100 153778 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In musl, they don't. < 1350153207 678810 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, static linked glibc stuff won't work without those... < 1350153216 882725 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betcha they could be stubbed without much trouble though. < 1350153245 682180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kick shachaf < 1350153249 450657 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mind, nobody, and I mean nobody, *actually static links against glibc*. It makes GHC's runtime look minimal.) < 1350153312 46321 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :675k for "int main(){}" is a bit much. < 1350153315 862774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I statically link against glibc sometimes. < 1350153345 167635 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 675k needed for glibc's *startup routines*. < 1350153374 218343 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's just the text segment. < 1350153403 158114 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The equivalent in musl is 1.5k for my current checkout. < 1350153406 527367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:35 Zeno knew how to halve his cake and eat it too. < 1350153490 924401 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went down a couple bytes when I did a git pull... < 1350153505 102662 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 883kB for an empty main with whatever libc ubuntu has < 1350153522 427225 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :854 with -Wl,--gc-sections < 1350153543 679244 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :650 B for a dynamic linked program. < 1350153614 443528 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm arbitrarily just measuring the text segment. < 1350153622 506587 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1350153658 257378 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350153676 9695 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you only look at the binary size proper, static linked musl is the smallest. < 1350153701 592523 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no real reason that program should have anything more than an exit syscall in its text segment < 1350153718 588524 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, you still need the startup code. < 1350153742 990733 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How it works is _start runs, it sets things up for main, and only *then* does an exit syscall. < 1350153751 859649 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slightly more work than just _exit. < 1350153759 643444 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still shouldn't be *that* much. < 1350153772 34117 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but even that is not necessary for this program < 1350153784 507568 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The linker can't magically know that main is a no-op. < 1350153836 194115 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All it knows is it needs the startup code and the program's objects to be glued together into a single binary. < 1350153850 244996 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350153853 804568 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it can, but it's somewhat reasonable that the linker doesn't have that magic built in < 1350153903 409461 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/somewhat/perfectly/ < 1350153964 158422 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The linker is getting handed headered machine code. You need a disassembler and some sort of assembly logic analyzer to determine what main is doing, and if any bit of the startup code is necessary. < 1350153980 59497 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, you'd basically be shoving compiler infrastructure into the linker. < 1350154045 539255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :link-time optimisation < 1350154054 768999 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not quite work like this, actually. < 1350154091 58220 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the linker's knowledge of LTO: it's passed a .so that should be loaded, and should have objects filtered through it. < 1350154103 805232 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, also, that .so isn't even looking at the machine code blob in the objects. < 1350154119 780533 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's looking at compiler IR that was shoved in the object files. < 1350154160 179177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was joking mostly < 1350154161 226643 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more-or-less just deferring optimization passes and code generation until all the translation units are available at once. < 1350154168 93917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see much wrong with putting compiler logic in the linker, though < 1350154174 1899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything i'd rather there be less compiler logic in the compiler < 1350154615 484473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Rust binaries are standalone enough to work as PID 1. < 1350154956 417860 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`W test < 1350154959 364948 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: W: not found < 1350155108 255868 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350155273 4668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is poppler or mupdf better these days? < 1350155400 572422 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: New tmux < 1350155428 256438 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mupdf: The muppet defragmenter. < 1350155731 343848 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1350155957 769160 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f648/index.htm < 1350155963 802588 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. The image they give seems to be wrong < 1350156101 198362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost like the font they use doesn't have perfect unicode 6 coverage < 1350156285 410279 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :preflex: seen kmc < 1350156306 924112 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, according to Wikipedia, Mayan symbols are not yet in Unicod < 1350156309 46408 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode < 1350156326 263403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicod. Universal fishing. < 1350156400 909789 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't count as being from #esoteric ? Or did I friend you? < 1350156416 74250 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I should figure out how to contact cpressey < 1350156443 173397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally impossible to contact Chris. < 1350156447 124034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does not exist. < 1350156486 5050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is, however, a tentative allocation for Maya hieroglyphs in the SMP roadmap: http://www.unicode.org/roadmaps/smp/ < 1350156489 912626 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see an email address on his about page < 1350156548 741666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think it went something like so that you write "cpressey" in blood on a mirror at midnight, and then... something. Some chanting was involved. < 1350156589 170470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, write it three times. Don't remember the other details. < 1350156725 289773 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And, because OpenZz thinks you are the input to a compiler, accumulating 10 of these errors will actually cause OpenZz to quit!" < 1350156739 567192 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can have 9 syntax errors and OpenZz will not quit? < 1350156745 826179 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems bizarre < 1350156799 36644 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall some other compiler having a "more than K errors, giving up" rule too. < 1350156832 728447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't know what "quit" means in that context. < 1350156871 247104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've assumed "stops trying to make sense out of the file", as opposed to trying to report all errors. < 1350156878 610246 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/zzrk/README.markdown.html < 1350156963 855253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it sounds a bit like that, then. < 1350157024 820672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like doing -fmax-error=10 to gcc. < 1350157037 712055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fmax-errors=10, I mean. < 1350157077 791499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely an error is something that should make the compiler quit immediately? < 1350157129 738236 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how often he comes in here, so don't know how long a @tell would take < 1350157379 878227 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1350157402 94769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think most compilers actually would instead read the whole file and try to report all errors at once, instead of quitting at the first, and that's what people actually want. < 1350157412 595422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, gcc doesn't give up at the first error or anything. < 1350157413 648017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good point < 1350157422 812811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the whole field of error recovery in parsing to make that possible. < 1350157520 350656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there was some tool with a finite default to '-fmax-errors'-like behaviour, I just can't remember which it was. The error message was mostly neutral, but there was a slight hint of disparaging the programmer. < 1350157539 582854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The limit was something like 500 or 1000 errors, after all. < 1350157643 561045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC just says "compilation terminated due to -fmax-errors=2." which is kind of boring. < 1350157646 712267 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :disparaging the programmer made me think INTERCAL, but I'm sure it would have a lower limit < 1350157749 817785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350157757 487283 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, this was some "serious" tool. < 1350157791 257133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm probably just thinking of Valgrind's "go fix your program" message. < 1350157817 939876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :==21573== More than 10000000 total errors detected. I'm not reporting any more. < 1350157820 939400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :==21573== Final error counts will be inaccurate. Go fix your program! < 1350157830 14398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing. It doesn't even quit. < 1350157837 842380 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kick shachaf < 1350157859 385857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least mingling that message and the as-yet unidentified compiler. < 1350157905 80543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valgrind's "go fix your program" is quite confusing < 1350157916 225459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that 10 million errors can happen very quickly, and often stem from the same cause < 1350157925 241022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I just received spam saying I'd been successfully unsubscribed < 1350157928 785451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure from what < 1350157933 245503 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This seems difficult at least, and not really necessary if we're willing to forego writing "Hunt the Wumpus" in Burro" < 1350157935 185538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it's angling for replies asking wtf is going on < 1350157943 420870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would confirm the address as genuine < 1350157951 850830 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, I wanted to write Hunt the Wumpus in Burro < 1350157956 358543 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not really) < 1350157957 825828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, which one's Burro? < 1350157965 604458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sort-of losing track of all the esolangs we have nowadays < 1350157978 191558 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck-like where every program has an antiprogram that when concatenated to the program results in a no-op < 1350157992 329987 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/burro/doc/burro-1.0.html < 1350158009 884294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that one < 1350158015 348679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it might be < 1350158027 78073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember talking to cpressey about it, because there was a mistake in it < 1350158071 16474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :JScript .NET has a syntax error "JS1197: Too many errors", but I'm sure I haven't used that. < 1350158128 803163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do I contact cpressey, there's a mistake in his REDGREEN implementation, I think < 1350158162 473127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and Apple MPW C has "Too many errors on one line (make fewer)". < 1350158260 344480 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : ≡ <> < 1350158272 181866 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That line should NOT have confused me as much as it did, even if it was only for seconds < 1350158297 269781 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350158324 543950 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1350158479 727319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Burro question: Is it mandatory to have a / inside (), or can you have (e) and no / in there < 1350158521 259316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd need a / or a \ because otherwise it wouldn't make sense < 1350158522 970564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure < 1350158544 761852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm pretty sure I've used compilers that stop at a configurable number of errors, with "error: too many errors" < 1350158562 490165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because they have bad error recovery and errors after the first few don't actually make sense anyway < 1350158567 158436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else that they fear a lot of duplicates < 1350158597 97513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So am I, but I can't remember which ones they were. (GCC has an option for it too, but it is off by default.) < 1350158648 671676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Borland C++ 4, perhaps < 1350158653 6 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler I grew up with < 1350158663 874931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there a way to contact cpressey? < 1350158700 804742 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350158834 362218 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1350158908 693296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think he has an email address < 1350158928 823700 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is having trouble finding it < 1350158945 4275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the email link on his userpage work? < 1350158952 69925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably not, given how often catseye moves < 1350159001 157322 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey REDGREEN is on Github < 1350159006 813931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just do something there < 1350159015 806634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on bitbucket. < 1350159027 265361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seemed to have identical commits. < 1350159047 74588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It smells like some kind of an automatic thing to have both. < 1350159089 589785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a VCS, right? < 1350159092 847631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can commit to multiple repos < 1350159099 225851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*DVCS < 1350159105 77840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that they're different DVCSes shouldn't matter < 1350159152 888194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I just gratuitously add myself to the comment at the top of the file in my fork, or just make the change? < 1350159198 50998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, Bitbucket also supports Git? I thought they only did Mercurial. < 1350159260 247492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case there would have needed to be some kind of a thing, or a person doing all commits twice with the same messages and so on. < 1350159337 486382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "thing" I mean something like that hg-git that people use. < 1350159413 426331 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f568.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1350159429 639623 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sgeo opened this pull request in a few seconds < 1350159429 724236 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1350159435 508248 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I should probably test it... < 1350159477 928525 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1350159489 586786 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350159508 902777 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-186-132.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1350159585 586639 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Madison, a Term-Rewriting Proof-Checker" < 1350159596 242294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread that as time-travelling proof-checker < 1350159627 800569 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let's travel back in time to check if fermat really had a proof" < 1350159649 655896 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's probably gonna be very disappointing) < 1350159706 367043 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350159804 497675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot needs to be rewritten in Flobnar < 1350159805 99089 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you'll be doing summer homework. *then* i can come up with a good solution < 1350159835 984552 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be fun < 1350159936 892237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So Flobnar is more functional than Befunge? < 1350159951 494156 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to understand the distinction between a moving IP and "evaluate what's over there" < 1350160048 480218 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1350160087 558309 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evaluate what's over there" has a sort-of intrinsic "move back and do the next thing afterwards" < 1350160111 461340 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arithmatic stuff helps me understand < 1350160138 428379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Flobnar like? < 1350160146 326763 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric < 1350160160 635131 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge but drunk < 1350160175 641818 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort-of Lisp-y < 1350160194 985267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is currently no text in this page. :/ < 1350160210 804321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- This frequent relocation of our web address was done specifically to < 1350160211 24218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :47 < 1350160211 105006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- please [[Phantom Hoover]]. < 1350160221 688894 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(And it's not implemented yet, but never mind that.)" < 1350160231 537694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://catseye.tc/node/Phantom%20Hoover.html < 1350160233 960177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yr famous < 1350160289 512270 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa man < 1350160325 910639 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah, I think the introspection and self-modification should perhaps use relative coordinates < 1350160348 539070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more famous than u < 1350160395 401594 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1350160402 710353 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so mysterious! < 1350160417 136513 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never did i think i would rub shoulders with douglas hofstadter < 1350160430 331242 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if he'll lend me some of his harem of beautiful french women now < 1350160456 251958 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have opened an issue than just issue a pull request < 1350160461 897909 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harems are overrated < 1350160462 954613 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rather than < 1350160476 887367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, yeah, sure < 1350160480 219819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not jealous at all < 1350160546 545247 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Befunge-93's : < 1350160572 354012 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duplicate, I think < 1350160618 53607 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends hates me in her sleep < 1350160629 855287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dup, yes. < 1350160636 91890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it has two dots. < 1350160637 757220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of her to abstain from hating you when awake < 1350160643 670179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than most of us can manage < 1350160645 333049 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed < 1350160649 328934 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least that's always been my personal logic for it.) < 1350160726 646353 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of bored right now < 1350160747 994675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, if you had a harem of beautiful french women you wouldn't be bored < 1350160752 543489 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge "!olleh">:#,_@ < 1350160753 91431 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1350160782 289342 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you're forgetting two things < 1350160789 725061 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an asexual < 1350160794 176324 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't speak French < 1350160813 711891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh you can be french and speak english < 1350160816 7301 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond "Ou est le W/C? Je voudrais une baguette!" < 1350160818 886129 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can have asexual harems! < 1350160849 1296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :harem -haref / < 1350160877 553888 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :harem haref? < 1350160930 106398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::$@ < 1350160932 765998 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that 0? < 1350160939 872893 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I need new glasses < 1350160949 978544 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that would make sense, but not sur < 1350160951 710366 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1350160963 640977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well,it has a 0 on stack at @. < 1350161024 545481 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But $ pops the stack < 1350161036 838555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but only one of the 0s pushed by :. < 1350161040 273312 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350161049 825603 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should the stack be considered to have an infinite number of 0s? < 1350161092 37647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like. Poppig an empty stack yields 0. < 1350161138 214200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spec (at least 93) isn't explicit about ':' on empty, but pushing two 0s is I believe most common. < 1350161139 459392 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The example cat program < 1350161142 813417 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, you've cloned yourself! < 1350161152 684950 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that .. n/m < 1350161208 25687 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 seems to be explicit about :. < 1350161224 902533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pops a cell off the stack, then pushes it back onto the stack twice, duplicating it". < 1350161226 994504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was talking Flobnar < 1350161230 645719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1350161240 957183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I haven't seen Flobnar. < 1350161247 995336 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/flobnar/doc/Flobnar.falderal.html < 1350161254 865195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1350161408 301413 :atriq!~nathan@host-78-146-171-45.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350161528 403549 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350161557 174985 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, it's so i can deal with all these french haremites < 1350161559 93115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that division by zero is funky. < 1350161578 739889 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enter Velo, a vaguely Ruby-inspired scripting language which unifies strings with code blocks, and scripts with object classes." < 1350161583 291253 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCL??? < 1350161688 416186 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, partly like Tcl < 1350161717 122118 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350161806 422414 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350163307 530521 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-71-171-202.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1350164657 614288 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1350165016 963441 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I'm answering things on Stack Overflow badly < 1350165088 860250 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I've got the Tumbleweed badge on Ask Ubuntu < 1350165094 144399 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst of crimes < 1350165106 149785 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I still have this problem < 1350165189 695175 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've spent my evening eating beef and drinking portuguese wine < 1350165197 867096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, in Tcl, Everything Is A String < 1350165206 160776 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: awful < 1350165247 451367 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: This includes code. < 1350165265 741319 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows Powershell Strings Are Not Actually Strings < 1350165276 989911 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's windows powershell? < 1350165296 170638 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thingy included with Windows 7 < 1350165305 106169 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposed to replace CMD.EXE or whatever < 1350165309 922167 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350165353 517953 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft finally noticed that unixy OSes had a serious command line shell for, llike, 40 years? < 1350165368 239491 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tried to copy the idea? < 1350165388 567804 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and more and wrong, I think < 1350165394 110054 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to copy the idea and wrote it thinking that attaching hidden information to EVERYTHING was a brilliant idea < 1350165403 859242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never used powershell so I don't really know < 1350165414 449260 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uess nobody ever used it < 1350165417 434893 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net NICK :awesome < 1350165425 440110 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the, gah, windows sever powerusers < 1350165430 336163 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :sewer < 1350165430 939130 :awesome!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net NICK :atriq < 1350165432 424305 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :danm < 1350165433 641011 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :server < 1350165448 338790 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to answer stuff on stack overflow but I got bored when I got all the privileges :I < 1350165456 499311 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still badges but they're meh hard < 1350165505 398637 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powershell manages to be more verbose than you reasonably want in a shell. < 1350165546 123569 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I actually tried to climb a building < 1350165559 740709 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1350165562 762229 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's C# with a funny syntax. < 1350165565 520823 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo *.txt|grep foo < 1350165567 962837 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is like < 1350165570 510557 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE ADVENTURE < 1350165613 232974 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :new-object Searcher::$search(call-static-method File::OfType("txt")) < 1350165615 695552 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬u¬ < 1350165618 898730 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that I don't know < 1350165630 266366 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehee < 1350165632 744879 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehehe < 1350165640 314324 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a spectacular fail < 1350165684 416789 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, because both POSIX and common systems permit some massive brain damage, "echo *.txt|grep foo" does not quite do what you think it does. < 1350165708 225848 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=youre_not_a_nerd < 1350165746 95530 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I meant cat! < 1350165747 921017 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬u¬ < 1350165750 616211 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's late. < 1350165760 173632 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok here's an actual example < 1350165784 824295 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't know how to search .__. < 1350165790 453740 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here's how to open a log: $AppLog = New-Object -TypeName System.Diagnostics.EventLog -ArgumentList Application < 1350165807 954529 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1350165811 266961 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have $ < 1350165846 58642 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1350165847 367645 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: echo *.txt|grep foo seems to do what i thought it does. < 1350165869 77840 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Consider the file -n.txt < 1350165889 279330 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solution: don't name files like that < 1350165894 938445 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps the file \n.txt (in C string notation "\\n.txt") < 1350165902 72837 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleepy time. < 1350165948 293599 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That behavior is what i think it has. It’s not what i’d *hope* it had, but that’s another matter. :-P < 1350165951 138989 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: Solution, smack whoever thought echo should be anything but int main(int argc, char**argv){for(int i = 1; i < argc; i++)puts(argv[i]);} < 1350165979 655594 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: was it a portable toilet? < 1350165983 595719 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something bigger/ < 1350165989 709183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that does not solve the bigger problem at all < 1350165990 242570 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, incidentally, remains a POSIX compliant echo.) < 1350165992 272411 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIGGER < 1350165999 284118 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't get very far, though < 1350166024 321816 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nah, but it's *less* brain-damaged at least. < 1350166025 127675 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gazebo? < 1350166046 246777 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Course, second you add spaces to your filenames, it breaks like crazy. < 1350166049 217750 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills the gazebo < 1350166051 423244 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a couple meters off the ground before I realised that the column I was ascending led to a horizontal wall thing < 1350166053 274090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why fix echo when there is also every other command with options < 1350166056 97512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: btw that is not a compliant echo < 1350166058 901341 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, a SHOPPING CENTRE < 1350166067 601615 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dur, puts does append newlines after everything. < 1350166091 495348 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion? < 1350166110 312417 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not climb ion < 1350166116 354527 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int argc, char**argv){for(int i = 1; i < argc; i++)printf("%s",argv[i]);puts("");} < 1350166128 218011 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1350166129 432618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: try again < 1350166136 74570 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a leisure and retail complex < 1350166138 953919 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever that is < 1350166139 521796 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant an arbour, not gazebo < 1350166147 965301 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not even sure what gazebo is < 1350166150 808365 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah! < 1350166157 3920 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Let's not. < 1350166159 410300 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid word < 1350166168 287999 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A gazebo is like a tent on stilts < 1350166176 969136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = fmap unwords getArgs >>= putStrLn < 1350166177 387459 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Complaint echo does not have options, so what do you mean, "every other command with options"? < 1350166188 407440 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except without walls < 1350166195 455257 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implementations shall not support any options." -- POSIX < 1350166200 463691 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ann arbor < 1350166208 213384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean "echo *.txt" not doing the right thing compared to globbing with any command that accepts options < 1350166210 99425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350166211 86818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cat *.txt or whatever < 1350166218 918668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't complain about cat's options or i'll just find a command with options you like :P < 1350166225 808205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: btw echo *.txt actually works perfectly < 1350166225 889110 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not climb an arbor < 1350166228 174593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since -n.txt is not -n < 1350166230 64992 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you even IMPLY that < 1350166231 361616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here < 1350166234 294053 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -- *.txt < 1350166236 583703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course spaces still mess it up) < 1350166255 373840 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I climbed an arbor < 1350166258 921951 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://www.comedycorner.org/90.html < 1350166270 943732 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above actually works. Perfectly. < 1350166276 254845 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :an I was slightly drunk and then i fell because i was afraid of falling < 1350166323 607442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define the above < 1350166330 114360 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat -- *.txt < 1350166333 461726 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350166336 874460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if "cat -- *.txt" is an ok solution then surely "echo -- *.txt" is too < 1350166342 106478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the problem isn't actually that echo has options there < 1350166354 254787 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except echo does not support options. Not even -- < 1350166360 135660 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn’t echo officially deprecated in the POSIX spec? < 1350166363 95995 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: No. < 1350166373 647201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading it. It is not deprecated. < 1350166412 640121 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the POSIX echo spec is that it doesn't match any existing implementation. < 1350166414 377279 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1350166429 276125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matches the one pikhq_ will write in one IRC line in three seconds < 1350166440 451863 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“New applications are encouraged to use printf instead of echo.” – echo(1posix) < 1350166454 883940 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: POSIX-but-not-XSI echo does map very well to sufficiently old UNIX. < 1350166460 118261 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: yeah, i was the Eric before a looked up the goddamn gazebo in my dictionary < 1350166469 884047 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: That is informative text, not a statement of deprecation. < 1350166489 160624 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: That's not the same thing as deprecation. < 1350166495 634445 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how's echo in Plan9 < 1350166510 869226 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the 1posix man pages are not the spec, but a derivative thereof. :P < 1350166527 970630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fun fact: It's impossible to write echo for GHC. < 1350166532 935940 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compliant echo, that is. < 1350166533 724623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ion < 1350166538 271275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear you linked to maddox < 1350166541 43247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat shit and die? < 1350166554 320883 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an answer to your question: feel free to. < 1350166581 785686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey man i'm just a soldier in someone else's war < 1350166586 895122 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It appears to be POSIXly correct. < 1350166590 817880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the war of the hoovers < 1350166595 235964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because +RTS? < 1350166595 682866 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can listen to repulsive idiots all you want < 1350166603 380044 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it does handle "-n" as the first operand. < 1350166619 698467 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about with -rtsopts=none? < 1350166642 873108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: z: RTS options are disabled. Link with -rtsopts to enable them. < 1350166642 957633 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No translations, though, so it's not XSI at all. < 1350166650 200048 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: duh < 1350166724 721965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: int main(int argc, char**argv){for(int i = 1; i < argc; i++)printf("%s%c",argv[i],i==argc-1?'\n':' ');} < 1350166815 207203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That doesn't print a newline for an empty command line. < 1350166817 647292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: fails to handle printf failing < 1350166820 916083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what shachaf said < 1350166964 67233 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what would happen if Kipple was working with queues instead of stacks < 1350167028 954494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You forgot to mention the undefined behavior bit where it doesn't return 0. < 1350167045 630739 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :main doesn't have to return < 1350167055 322394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's ok < 1350167056 734165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: C99 < 1350167060 349186 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that a C++-only thing? < 1350167062 239965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: In C99, if you reach the end of main you return 0. < 1350167063 397446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, C99 < 1350167065 883365 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine. int main(int argc, char**argv){for(int i = 1; i < argc; i++)if(printf("%s%s",argv[i],i!=argc-1?" ":"")<0)return 1;return putchar('\n') != EOF;} < 1350167066 733701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1350167067 158697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dumb though < 1350167069 669579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike it < 1350167072 730710 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still in C89 land. < 1350167078 558231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "things that make any sense" land. < 1350167090 269089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: makes assumptions as to what a return value of 1 means < 1350167098 751961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known as "ancient C" land? < 1350167099 5506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you want EXIT_FAILURE? < 1350167117 31279 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. POSIX echo returns some value greater than 0 on an error. < 1350167129 939897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1350167131 498914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :accepted < 1350167132 20347 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does not have to have semantics other than being greater than 0. < 1350167152 202155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1350167189 804266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: what if argv[i] is NULL? can that ever happen? < 1350167242 401024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, for 0 < i < argc. < 1350167260 753561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even handles the argc == 0 case. < 1350167277 312534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1350167283 235671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, it's not. It's initialized to 1 even if argc <= 1. < 1350167302 677670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: huh? < 1350167306 318836 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and even if Chris doesn't respond to your pull request for three or four years, at least your fork will be out there and available to anyone else who might be interested." < 1350167310 529223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was inside the loop. < 1350167311 995145 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is that particularly likely? < 1350167315 125907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not SEE. < 1350167326 124851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes. chris hates pull requests. and the web. < 1350167339 427797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he quit IRC because he refuses to use any other protocol but ssh and gopher. < 1350167344 536956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is also why he cannot be contacted < 1350167380 140538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: anyway I guess that might be valid < 1350167388 397327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it's still not compliant. < 1350167401 233927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1350167403 849192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems fairly airtight though < 1350167410 968529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was tryign to think of overflow behaviours with argc but that seems ok too < 1350167413 534908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*trying < 1350167423 15123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, which echo specification are we talking about here? < 1350167428 92622 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX. < 1350167434 465023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not XSI, just POSIX. < 1350167438 382511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. Simultaneously. < 1350167442 939816 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1350167445 82606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the spec? < 1350167453 531719 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX echo is boring though, judging by the echo(1posix) man page < 1350167455 964371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/echo.html < 1350167477 960188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, part of that spec is XSI. < 1350167478 949832 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n as the first operand is implementation-defined, as are instances of backslash in the operands. < 1350167492 177034 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I define them to be "they are treated as ordinary strings". < 1350167500 305283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: looks like you have to deal with locales < 1350167505 63114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :given ENVIRONMENT VARIABLES < 1350167545 998475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you have no diagnostic messages. < 1350167554 147501 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do so correctly, by having no diagnostic messages. < 1350167565 620141 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Determine the locale for the interpretation of sequences of bytes of text data as characters (for example, single-byte as opposed to multi-byte characters in arguments)." < 1350167570 852079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSI-only. < 1350167574 800448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes but that's XSI :( < 1350167576 462629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1350167593 633174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like this is more likely to be an invalid C program than non-compliant with the POSIX spec < 1350167609 697408 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you need #include < 1350167613 365840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess that was implied. < 1350167617 326119 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was taking that as read. < 1350167997 209398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Now golf it. < 1350168147 801240 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int a,char**b){int i=1;for(;i0||exit(1);} < 1350168378 365212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that correct < 1350168384 489642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that should be *(b++) < 1350168406 29476 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the argv vector is not NULL terminated. < 1350168414 976326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It is. < 1350168418 613565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1350168422 180335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :argv[argc] == NULL is in the C spec. < 1350168422 771941 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1350168434 489808 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It is strictly conformant for all POSIX utilities to be shell builtins, and for the shell itself to not actually exist in the filesystem at all. < 1350168449 383403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it should be *++b < 1350168451 170133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not *(b++) < 1350168466 955874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exit() isn't golf if you count the #include < 1350168474 860939 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ah, that kills any exec-based solution < 1350168480 796105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: mm < 1350168485 267099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: just exec sh < 1350168494 140905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should learn how to use yoob < 1350168504 658360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that only works if the shell is in the filesystem? < 1350168517 164018 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you always able to exec sh? < 1350168540 816308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, what's your correct program? < 1350168550 157543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main(int a,char**b){while(*b)printf("%s%c",*b,*++b?' ':'\n')>0||exit(1);} < 1350168565 674345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically both mine and pikhq_'s programs are wrong < 1350168569 774075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because printf can print only some output sometimes < 1350168590 386927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1350168597 846343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean so < 1350168619 986822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yours is wrong because it prints argv[0] < 1350168659 862298 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to POSIX, all of the standard utilities must be executable via exec(), even if they are implemented as shell builtins. < 1350168661 184172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1350168663 600723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what do you mean so) < 1350168666 671944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also doesn't handle the no argument case. < 1350168681 705187 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the "special" builtins, which needn't be. < 1350168690 578255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh boy, when you run your code with argc==0, it prints the environment! < 1350168704 652689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On Linux/glibc/etc., that is. It's undefined behavior, of course.) < 1350168715 35907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if you fix the thing that makes it not even compile. < 1350168728 789147 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's valid to have the C compiler as a shell builtin, but a POSIX system must execute that shell builtin on exec("cc") < 1350168730 422726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is '\n' guaranteed to equal 10 < 1350168740 292954 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1350168757 530029 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no charset guarantees beyond what characters must exist. < 1350168764 887813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what makes it not compile < 1350168770 771942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What about '\0' == 0? < 1350168774 236233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's not true. 'a' to 'z' are required to be adjacent IIRC < 1350168781 859737 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The || thing. < 1350168788 206746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think '0'+n has to work? < 1350168789 960275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: is that not valid? < 1350168796 541314 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not according to clang. < 1350168802 923151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of figuring it out I replaced it with an if(). < 1350168804 495805 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME FOUR FICTIONAL JAKES < 1350168807 101656 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You're handing a numeric literal there. < 1350168835 816274 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which of course works. '\0' is (char)0 < 1350168856 54469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but are there guarantees like 'a' != 0? < 1350168867 716453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *Very* certain '0'+n doesn't have to work. < 1350168876 670914 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Don't think so. < 1350168883 493759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i think you are wrong < 1350168885 524897 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Heck, that's not even true of EBCDIC systems. < 1350168890 503451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1350168893 276931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are some ordering guarantees < 1350168894 422879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1350168895 363766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's it < 1350168912 306799 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor is 'a' through 'z' adjacency... < 1350168927 992938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBCDIC is cruelty. < 1350168931 466599 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To specify an integer character constant containing < 1350168931 587614 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two characters whose values are 0x12 and '3', the construction < 1350168931 668427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :'\0223' may be used, since a hexadecimal escape sequence is terminated < 1350168931 668602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :only by a non-hexadecimal character. (The value of this two-character < 1350168932 200416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer character constant is implementation-defined also.) < 1350168936 180874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that was in C89. < 1350168945 215745 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation-defined, but still. < 1350168949 532709 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, 0 through 9 should be adjacent. < 1350168971 958728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :told you!! < 1350168972 837424 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no *other* ordering guarantees in POSIX. < 1350168994 732367 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And U+0 shall be '\0' < 1350169009 485909 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the only character with a fixed value. < 1350169115 321181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: What about the guarantee that if you order a copy of the POSIX spec, they'll send it to you? < 1350169119 179557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should hope that's a guarantee. < 1350169128 123880 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(POSIX volume 1, 6.1 "Portable Character Set") < 1350169137 168970 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't think that's *in* POSIX. < 1350169144 554735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1350169147 907116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a POSIX guarantee, though. < 1350169152 172958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you didn't say that. < 1350169158 678048 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "guarantees in POSIX". < 1350169165 534815 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ordering the spec should be undefined behavior < 1350169166 50172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oozlybub and Murphy is great so far < 1350169167 402800 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-163-202-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not guarantees *about* POSIX. < 1350169348 741339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1350169349 333819 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRIVIA PORTION OF SHOW < 1350169349 418290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO WAS IT FAMOUS MAN THAT SAID THIS? < 1350169349 499078 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) RONALD REAGAN < 1350169349 499244 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) RONALD REAGAN < 1350169349 499354 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) RONALD STEWART < 1350169351 436722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C) RENALDO < 1350169361 725424 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ in the Oozlybub and Murphy docs < 1350169375 331894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What does that have to do with Clojure? < 1350169379 947734 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon C < 1350169382 374380 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct answer is D) CAPTAIN PICARD < 1350169409 767025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you not "get" cpressey < 1350169435 614102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHAT IF!!! i do not "get" cpressey :'( < 1350169443 360197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know who that is. < 1350169451 725167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you don't get anything < 1350169453 14838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BURN THE BLASPHEMER < 1350169455 902430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is the only esolanger worth a damn < 1350169461 764858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ais523 and oerjan too < 1350169463 581014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I get abused! < 1350169464 750796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :By you! < 1350169467 519426 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://www.catseye.tc/projects/oozlybub-and-murphy/doc/oozlybub-and-murphy.html < 1350169512 86258 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that reminds me, I should start working on yonguilexiphonaugh some day < 1350169548 333620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cpressey is more prolific than me, and oerjan is more profound < 1350169577 904706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AmBF/AmbiF (it has two official names) has really got me annoyed, because I'm still not sure if it's TC < 1350169583 495428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing it's missing is arbitrary effect at arbitrary point < 1350169588 415977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess fizzie is good too for fungot < 1350169588 987681 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did they make it easier to use than a keyboard. < 1350169589 984792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know how annoying /those/ things are to prove TC < 1350169603 159333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every esolanger beyond that is unnecessary < 1350169615 294171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contemporary, that is < 1350169620 301982 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a good thing I'm not an esolanger, isn't it? < 1350169621 474138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot Keymaker, pah < 1350169628 137833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, not even < 1350169634 742401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is necessary. < 1350169648 336398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is arbitrary effect at an arbitrary point even well-defined? < 1350169651 486924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always been suspicious of it. < 1350169651 993755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350169654 457524 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary effect at arbitrary point is what's needed for quineness, right? Or, well, providing arbitrary effect at arbitrary point is necessary for a proof of the existence of a quine to hold, in addition to TC < 1350169665 330349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I understanding correctly? < 1350169677 69342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a good explanation to use for "I've been able to create two bignum counters in this with increment, decrement, and zero test and I'm /still/ not sure it's TC" < 1350169680 788321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1350169696 917235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I basically consider the TCness rules as not a mathematical definition but a heuristic < 1350169762 293918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, this nondeterministic BF variant is definitely TC if you add conditional goto < 1350169766 539530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd explain to oerjan but he isn't here < 1350169776 769611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ambif btw < 1350169791 827231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the word I was thinking when I said "unnecessary" was actually "inessential" < 1350169806 925487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's like BF, with a tape infinite both ways and bignum elements; and + does - instead half the time, and < does > instead half the time (and vice versa) < 1350169813 862325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. + and - are the same, and < and > are the same) < 1350169824 938473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is this on the wiki? < 1350169826 963307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350169831 422248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably add it some time but I'm lazy < 1350169842 356322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the name is /pronounced/ like "am BF" or "ambi-F" < 1350169848 958632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is spelled in such a way that you can't tell which it is, which is impossible < 1350169852 734757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm having issues titling the page < 1350169867 551586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's the point of the "vice versa"? < 1350169872 203223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not spelled /// < 1350169874 893224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get rid of - and > < 1350169881 578083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, yes < 1350169903 761653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also get rid of , and . < 1350169905 335030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make it so that [ does ] half the time too < 1350169915 428026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott++ makes a good point. < 1350169925 250926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, I did get rid of , and . < 1350169927 523067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just forgot to tell anyone < 1350169934 243835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would make the thing even harder to deal with < 1350169940 768683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd keep . < 1350169943 887066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't harm semantics, right? < 1350169971 34570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can keep . as long as it does , half the time. < 1350169982 62967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't < 1350169989 551269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't distinguish between n and -n < 1350170006 188201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and above 2, can't distinguish between two numbers if they have the same parity < 1350170013 689392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't actually construct anything coherent to output < 1350170023 169207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, can't non-destructively distinguish < 1350170029 373859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any distinction would be probabilistic as-is < 1350170032 301346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make it normalise the output to what's observable, then < 1350170038 532328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take abs as first step, obviously < 1350170046 657970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1350170053 502590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably make it output bits, actually < 1350170057 35615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just caring about 0 and non-0 < 1350170058 301019 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350170065 309452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct 0 and ±1 trivially < 1350170074 328166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just base it on boof < 1350170075 667701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :amboof < 1350170076 8312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO use * and @ for +- and <>, I think some other derivative does that < 1350170077 212257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some doubt as to whether you can reliably construct ±2, and if it's useful to do that < 1350170092 347671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess we should work out the IPA for it < 1350170094 802855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that in the title < 1350170097 817810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why would you use @ for <>? < 1350170109 747021 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ doesn't exist yet. < 1350170178 413750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ˈæmbiːɛf/ < 1350170184 787083 :atriq!~nathan@host-2-97-159-182.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350170195 374888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does æ mean the thing which is pronounced as "ea"? < 1350170201 608912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "and". < 1350170228 197152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's basically what English people do when trying to pronounce short "a" < 1350170245 967787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in "and"? < 1350170254 603577 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or "ambiguous" < 1350170257 665559 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm trying to run the example brainfuck program used on the Dbfi page to test the self-interpreter's speeds < 1350170267 885358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, "ambiguous" isn't pronounced like "and". < 1350170273 431526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/æmˈbɪɡjuəs/ /ænd/ < 1350170273 515861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'a', I mean. < 1350170279 790848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are according to Wiktionary < 1350170283 99145 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to run it in a brainfuck interpreter written in thue, itself ran in a thue interpreter in java < 1350170284 811232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I pronounce them the same way < 1350170289 928650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they differ in your language? < 1350170296 506293 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well it's been running for almost two minutes now < 1350170301 945410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: you can expect that to take a while < 1350170302 407124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You = wiktionary = wrong :-( < 1350170315 101110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue has an inherent O(n) slowdown < 1350170318 165956 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that brainfuck program was supposed to do < 1350170321 359634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: so how do they differ in your accent? < 1350170328 658864 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought this slowdown could easily be reduce < 1350170330 149069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd pronounce the 'a' in "ambiguous" like the 'u' in "up". < 1350170336 541499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1350170339 935318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird accent < 1350170347 189761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I wouldn't. < 1350170351 564091 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making a thue interpreter that, instead of selectng rules randomly, would "sort" them < 1350170358 244033 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :umbiguous < 1350170359 86553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not quite be like that, but it's certainly not like "and". < 1350170363 511400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pretty much any vowel can be pronounced as anything if you go looking around for weird accents < 1350170364 442133 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's way drawn out. < 1350170372 15173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: you still have to see where the rules match < 1350170375 781607 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, always trying to apply rules from the top of the rule list, and always placing the last rule used on top of the list < 1350170378 659285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might pronounce it that was for a long word like "ambiguity". < 1350170378 940826 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1350170385 110196 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've said ambiguous in so many ways now that I've forgotten the right way to say it (if I ever knew any) < 1350170396 763944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So have I. :-( < 1350170404 602922 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might just be wrong. < 1350170408 726204 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a system to try first where the last change has been made might be slightly more complicated < 1350170411 718682 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(About how I say it.) < 1350170414 741396 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(took about three tries to get there) < 1350170417 265549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: so basically each interpreter step is proportional to the size of the internal state < 1350170421 588063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what causes the O(n) slowdown < 1350170426 421614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thutu has the same problem for the same reason < 1350170427 564186 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, the sorting rules thing would make it much faster I think < 1350170432 511732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite running rules in deterministic order < 1350170453 569093 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the best that can be done, or is that just because the thue interpreters are not very good? < 1350170458 428398 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, uh < 1350170462 813548 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stopped (finally) < 1350170467 914161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's possible to optimise it in many practically useful special cases < 1350170468 197197 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it DOESN'T DO ANYTHING < 1350170470 418408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in general, IIRC < 1350170477 637699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: sure, benchmarks rarely do < 1350170482 654870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're running Crysis or something < 1350170485 413985 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well technically it tried to print the number 11001010 < 1350170508 485661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't have a BF version of Crysis to check; Lost Kingdoms is normally considered the closest substitute) < 1350170511 977184 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I only implemented the result of the . operator for ascii values 10 and 32-126 < 1350170516 962397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you pronounce "ambiguous" like "America"? < 1350170523 403717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here actually completed Lost Kingdoms, btw? < 1350170526 396221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1350170543 642645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So do I, I think. < 1350170544 581628 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thue interpreter in java seems to be pretty slow too < 1350170554 520352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you pronounce "america" with "æ"? < 1350170560 369877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you pronounce "and" with "æ"? < 1350170560 708792 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it allows me to see the internal state) < 1350170571 490877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1350170580 238234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only really have one sort of short "a" for the starts of words < 1350170587 665335 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does allow escaped characters in replacement rules, which is nice < 1350170626 595589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You pronounce "and" like "america"? < 1350170629 544409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they call *me* crazy! < 1350170639 517078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an america start with the same vowerl < 1350170655 984198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: only the first vowel < 1350170657 684484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the entire wordes < 1350170658 420676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vowerl" is the British spelling of "vowel", right? < 1350170660 648052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*words < 1350170661 262244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, yes. < 1350170677 736019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "er" for "e" in "vowel" is quite a common accent in the UK < 1350170683 611470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'd typically pronounce it as "vowl" < 1350170693 602238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a typo btw < 1350170723 349969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just like "colour", right? < 1350170815 228187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, New York just banned soda < 1350170824 280534 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it only banned large ones < 1350170828 341543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1350170829 947989 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi copumpkin < 1350170833 807830 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf < 1350170844 653357 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "banned soda"? < 1350170866 700311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically shops aren't allowed to sell more than 16oz at a time < 1350170871 306268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Rec is pretty nifty. < 1350170875 902188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, I'm British, and as such am not entirely sure how much 16oz is < 1350170877 757560 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rec? < 1350170880 693984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is that in metric? < 1350170881 200546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Rec < 1350170881 915126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Rec a = InR { outR :: Rec a -> a } < 1350170884 230827 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't that "unless the customer asks"? < 1350170885 136675 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a lot < 1350170890 577419 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh, the non-termination type < 1350170890 661145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1350170899 308886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you use newtype P = InP { outP :: forall a. P -> a } to write Y? < 1350170901 47491 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought 1 oz was about 30 grams < 1350170907 984658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yes. It's Curry's paradox. < 1350170908 389898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think yes < 1350170909 184904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1350170912 360158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conversion result: 473.2 mL (milliliters), assuming oz is US fluid ounces. < 1350170913 922115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1350170914 2925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody spoil < 1350170926 840992 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they just banned the "if the customer doesn't say how much they want, then they want a huge one" policy < 1350170929 739283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :350ml is about standard for a small bottle of drink in the UK < 1350170930 870309 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1350170934 513392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hey how do I define P in lambdabot < 1350170943 825388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which corresponds to 12oz < 1350170945 624024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't. :-( < 1350170946 665523 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the record our previous president made up a tax on soda < 1350170952 547376 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :50cl is the normal soda bottle size here < 1350170966 723417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype P < 1350170966 948336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : EmptyDataDecls is not enabled < 1350170974 282718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype P = InP { outP :: forall a. P -> a } < 1350170974 388131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : TypeOperators is not enabled < 1350170976 301149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I've seen 50cl bottles too, but they're rarely used for soda < 1350170977 532477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1350170983 87458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350170984 476059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the forall < 1350170985 657798 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: @let doesn't work that way. < 1350170988 451929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although they'd be marked 500ml in the UK) < 1350170990 89040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well < 1350170992 246498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cans are 350ml < 1350170992 607562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orwell < 1350170993 291869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype Test = Test Int < 1350170993 468037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Invalid declaration < 1350170996 285684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottles are 500ml indeed < 1350170997 745902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype Test = Test { test :: Int } < 1350170997 916287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Invalid declaration < 1350170998 783486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1350171000 715009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cans are more common < 1350171011 182309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I see fruit juice in the 500ml ones rather than soda, though < 1350171016 75685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cans are canon. < 1350171018 206990 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Double_big_gulp.jpg < 1350171024 724960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because using a built-in operation store in this way saturates it, it cannot be used again. Typically you want to make a copy of the store first, and use that, leaving the built-in store unmodified." < 1350171038 197592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: which language? < 1350171039 606009 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine how bad things would be if a mainstream language was like that < 1350171043 801704 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/xoomonk/doc/Xoomonk.falderal.html < 1350171044 934921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Pft. That cup is still smaller than the person holding it. < 1350171047 426098 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to this article the ban is for restaurants, "concession stands" and "other eateries" < 1350171059 302463 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure badly written libraries and programs would saturate important stores < 1350171066 270765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: fun fact: at the University, I can buy a 500ml bottle of carbonated water for 95p < 1350171073 78716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can buy a 2l = 2000ml bottle for 55p < 1350171084 666637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even from the same shop, I think < 1350171093 128174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure of the logic behind this < 1350171127 178867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: «'Only you MUST eat them both, if you buy two,' said the Sheep.» < 1350171133 610408 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second there I thought 'p' meant 'pound' < 1350171221 247807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: that'd be massively expensive < 1350171224 66517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1p = £0.01 < 1350171230 131895 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeayeah < 1350171234 819398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a dollar is usually somewhere between 60p and 70p < 1350171245 734678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's probably somewhere really different right now because the world economy is in a mess < 1350171266 848068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google 1 usd in gbp < 1350171267 698115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, 62.21p < 1350171268 621154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.x-rates.com/ < 1350171268 811274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Exchange Rates - X-Rates < 1350171271 882927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's prety much where you'd expect it to be < 1350171273 364152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless bot. < 1350171273 747450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pretty < 1350171304 581353 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow read p as cent < 1350171313 476854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 is at ₪3.8288 < 1350171319 620692 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I forgot how england and america are actually different countries that just happen to speak the same language < 1350171326 811166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1350171330 652147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: which country's currency is that? < 1350171345 620712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and also there's a distinction between England and the UK < 1350171349 791086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which many Americans don't seem to realise at all < 1350171360 764122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some of them catch on when you mention the existence of Scotland) < 1350171362 101653 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google ₪ < 1350171362 734701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Result Found. < 1350171367 370341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless bot. < 1350171381 110449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .il < 1350171390 543258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1350171399 174643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point $1 was ~₪5 < 1350171400 37950 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I will never learn how that distinction works < 1350171417 907397 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my internal money converter is still using the values from my childhood: 1$ ~= 10f (french francs), 1€ = 6.56f, 1 swiss franc = 4f, and 1$ is slightly less than 1€ < 1350171433 813026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To be fair, even people who live in the UK are confused on the finer points. < 1350171439 791173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Including elliott. < 1350171462 430058 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350171474 382870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember when I confused you by talking about the Isle of Man or something? < 1350171476 691239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can start a mindboggling flamewar by asking whether England is a country or not < 1350171485 871149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindboggling because nobody's entirely sure of which side of the argument they're on < 1350171494 787844 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm with Rosencrantz. < 1350171504 720305 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and when thinking about it you get "10 is slightly less than 7" but those rates might come from different times so it's ok) < 1350171526 682326 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's guidenstern? < 1350171529 871086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUIL (leaping up): What a shambles! We're just not getting anywhere. < 1350171529 988780 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROS (mournfully): Not even England. I don't believe in it anyway. < 1350171530 69579 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUIL: What? < 1350171530 69771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROS: England. < 1350171530 69881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUIL: Just a conspiracy of cartographers, you mean? < 1350171546 287400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Dead. < 1350171549 913487 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1350171569 578187 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Rosencrantz probably is too then < 1350171573 10223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latest terminology is that the UK is a nation, or a state, and that England, Scotland, Wales are countries, and screw all the smaller constituents of the UK because classifying Northern Ireland is a political minefield and the other places are too small to bother with < 1350171576 204779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Did you see R&G Are Dead? < 1350171581 661435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not convinced I agree with it < 1350171591 59375 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it at some point and then watched a video of a performance < 1350171591 481409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, he's in a box. Take that as you will. < 1350171596 680677 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember much < 1350171613 896759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good. < 1350171654 857615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UK is a kingdom, obviously < 1350171664 989165 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and where do you place Great Britain in all that? < 1350171665 629852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROS: We might as well be dead. Do you think death could possibly be a boat? < 1350171665 710564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUIL: No, no, no... Death is... not. Death isn't. You take my meaning. Death is the ultimate negative. Not-being. You can't not-be on a boat. < 1350171668 659271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROS: I've frequently not been on boats. < 1350171671 289497 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUIL: No, no, no - what you've been is not on boats. < 1350171677 920179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, explain the kingdom of fife?? < 1350171680 608083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Great Britain has already been placed. < 1350171683 737701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: imposter. < 1350171685 489984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty solid where it is. < 1350171695 296883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Impost*o*r. < 1350171713 913765 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I was referring to ais523: I think the latest terminology is that the UK is a nation, or a state, and that England, Scotland, Wales are countries, and screw all the smaller constituents of the UK because classifying Northern Ireland is a political minefield and the other places are too small to bother with < 1350171714 397756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: Great Britain is reasonably simple, it's a geographical term referring to an island < 1350171717 996256 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reasonably large island < 1350171725 443249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it contains England, and most of Scotland and Wales < 1350171730 198520 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 14 British Overseas Territories are under the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom, though they do not form part of it." < 1350171778 739355 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the english name for that dash in ń character? < 1350171781 995781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the Underseas Territories? < 1350171790 126079 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the UK is a state that contains countries... and the US are a country that contains states < 1350171793 278241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: acute < 1350171797 289605 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they are secret and don't officially exist < 1350171809 441944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have acutes in our own language, but we have a word for them so we can talk about them in other languages < 1350171814 58954 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thx < 1350171820 333071 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're at Lantis. < 1350171836 443018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: we're not really used to seeing them on n, though < 1350171846 392245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly we use them to talk about French because the French are closest < 1350171847 722533 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ćóńś < 1350171849 808888 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to learn dutch and they have acutes, though they seem to be saving them for onomatopoeias < 1350171853 162158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we used to repeatedly have wars with them < 1350171856 466321 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are Polish < 1350171885 215665 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is ń pronounced? < 1350171901 79238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ńot. < 1350171901 633047 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... give me a second < 1350171910 801421 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a modifier for silent letters. < 1350171923 716207 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure we have that in french < 1350171932 874867 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: silent letters should simply be removed < 1350171936 649579 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so cliché, ais < 1350171946 330054 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ni in night < 1350171975 32502 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ń alone is a whole syllable? < 1350171984 838304 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silent letters are what they read in silent films < 1350172020 944281 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's platal nasal consonant < 1350172024 92125 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a syllable < 1350172031 10941 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds like ni in night < 1350172040 309030 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350172041 624846 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1350172046 66074 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghhh < 1350172049 945694 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nile < 1350172053 74345 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1350172060 924605 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350172062 208277 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1350172075 697082 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the sound isn't used in english at all < 1350172078 566641 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ghhh"? that's a weird way to pronounce an n < 1350172119 467207 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pater ghoster < 1350172130 221482 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%83 < 1350172133 266062 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1350172164 729122 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ń (minuscule: ń) is a letter formed by putting an acute accent over the letter N. < 1350172185 744474 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad wikipedia can teach me those things every day < 1350172205 845661 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it's the same sound as ñ in spanish < 1350172211 346903 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pl-kwiecie%C5%84.ogg < 1350172218 967815 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep, pretty much < 1350172237 419362 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350172248 755356 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ó is pronounced like Polish u, which is like english oo < 1350172291 706747 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ś and ć do not exist in english < 1350172405 811136 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've also got ł,ż,ź,ą,ę and ł < 1350172424 615141 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1350172426 975501 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350172428 88267 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ł and ł < 1350172441 885094 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget rz, sz and cz < 1350172452 630350 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind me if I go off-topic for just one second? - do you know of a brainfuck program I could feed my interpreter with to check for potential bugs? (instructions +-><[] are supposed to be working properly, instruction . works if the current cell is either 10 or 32-126, and instruction , is considered a no-op) < 1350172455 2906 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :brzeszczot < 1350172500 272146 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :szcz is a nice combo < 1350172510 198937 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :brzeszczot -> knife edge < 1350172518 540646 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sharp word < 1350172576 996763 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrząszcz brzmi w trzczcinie w strzebrzeszynie, to remind the most known tongue breaker < 1350172596 266510 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess, that's polish for "hi"? < 1350172610 73632 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, hi is cześć ;) < 1350172610 827073 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm aren't we supposed to throw some vowels into that before even considering trying to pronounce it? < 1350172640 715228 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/quine.b.txt < 1350172656 391380 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: thank you! < 1350172712 442481 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350172741 26705 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric