00:00:26 And there's a bit at the end where it takes you into a "spooky" room 00:00:33 kmc: the flipside of web dev is that the reason you can get away with all that is because you will be told, "this must be done in 2 weeks, we didn't spec it properly, we're already over budget, so we don't care how you make it work, just do it" 00:00:55 that really depends on the company 00:03:11 sure, there's a lot of variance 00:04:07 i'm not sure it's more common with web dev than other areas of programming 00:04:10 i don't have the experience to know 00:04:33 -!- JaBoJa has joined. 00:06:08 I think web dev is the most publicly visible (to non-technical people) segment of programming, and that tends to attract a whole lot of people and money who are utterly disinterested in technical details. If you have a spot at a good firm, it's fine, but if you're trying to freelance, there's a LOT of low-end work to wade through. 00:06:40 yeah, i am not talking about freelancing 00:07:35 if we're going to say "it's a great field for language nerds if you're at a good firm"... well, that could apply to any field 00:07:41 -!- JaBoJa|2 has joined. 00:07:47 not really 00:08:12 a great embedded systems company might be a great place to work, but you won't get to use much of anything other than C 00:08:23 ATS? 00:08:29 looooooooool 00:08:42 sure, with some exceptions 00:09:10 but if you're writing video games or word processors or music sequencer apps, there's no reason you couldn't do so in if you were at an enlightened firm 00:09:21 i'm saying web developers have greater freedom to choose language, and also better "typical" languages, than (say) kernel programmers, high-frequency traders, or enterprise business software developers 00:09:31 -!- JaBoJa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:10:06 not that C is a bad language for kernel development (that's a different argument anyway), but it doesn't scratch that PL nerd itch 00:10:10 Perhaps I'm biased, since I'm a web developer who has been trying to convince people to do a project in Lisp for the better part of a decade now :) 00:10:44 oh 00:11:00 the reply is always: "Sure, Lisp is cool and all, but if you get hit by a bus, who will pick up where you left off? Do it in Rails and we can find 5 million people tomorrow." 00:11:19 sure 00:11:21 that's a valid argument 00:11:57 a few tiers down from that, there's a whole mass of "let's hire overseas programmers to do it in PHP for $15 an hour" web dev 00:11:57 but you still get to use ruby, javascript, and maybe C++, every day if you like 00:12:02 another variant of that argument might be, but if you start being annoying who will replace you when we fire you? 00:12:32 maybe "start being annoying" is wrong 00:12:33 https://twitter.com/cperciva/status/247848282880106496 00:12:44 itidus21: well, no business should have a single point of failure. I agree with the principle. 00:13:05 kwertii: anyway i don't care about your employers >:) 00:13:41 some businesses inevitably have a single point of failure 00:13:44 startups have many 00:13:58 itidus21: wasn't asking you to care, not sure where you're going with that 00:14:29 kmc: of course. and the process of developing the business should include reducing the single points of failure to the greatest extent possible, to minimize risk for all involved 00:15:04 yes and no 00:15:16 kmc: There are a few enlightened people in high freq trading. One I can think of off the top of my head, Jane Street Capital, works mainly in OCaml 00:15:19 by starting a company or joining a startup, you are deliberately taking on risk 00:15:41 i'm not comfortable calling the people who use the languages i like more "enlightened" 00:15:54 my point is about flexibility, not about one language over another 00:16:16 whatever you want to call it :) 00:16:35 i mean the most popular language in web dev is also one of the worst languages to ever become popular 00:17:37 taking on risk is inevitable, but there are many degrees of risk. a company built around is a lot riskier than a company built around C, PHP, or Ruby, all else being the same. it's just much harder to find staff who can comprehend obscure languages. 00:18:06 you don't need to convince me of that 00:18:29 my point about risk was a tangent from the PL discussion, i did not mean to imply that you should use the most obscure language for your startup 00:18:43 (there are some benefits to using a somewhat obscure language, though, as paul graham pointed out) 00:18:55 (dude's kind of a blowhard but he makes some good points from time to time) 00:19:33 if PG were right, there'd be a lot more startups built on Lisp, and there'd be VC firms specializing in Lisp. it seems that language choice is a rather minor factor in the massive number of variables that go into a startup, though. 00:19:44 i agree with that too 00:20:00 i'm talking about http://paulgraham.com/pypar.html 00:20:13 which is not about lisp circa 2012 but about python circa 2004 00:20:22 yeah, I've read it, and most of the other pg essays 00:20:25 he has a point 00:21:12 I was referring to the other essay where he talks about what a huge competitive advantage it was to be using Common Lisp at ViaWeb in the 90s 00:21:31 yeah, that is massively over-fitted 00:21:56 i'm sure that Lisp is a competitive advantage over vintage C++ for web dev 00:22:17 i guess that it could be painful for someone who can code in lisp well to be forced to code in c 00:22:36 and be daydreaming about what it would be like if they could use lisp 00:22:54 and i think he is extrapolating too much from a success in a very early stage of the web 00:23:06 I'd love to have the resources to start a web shop on CL or Clojure. The average quality level of the programmers is much higher, as per the python essay. But it's much, much harder to scale. You (apparently) get a better return on capital with 100 mid-skill Ruby programmers than you'd get from the 40 Lisp programmers you could hire for that money. 00:23:17 basically there were no good web dev languages at the time, and he kinda hacked one together in lisp (er, "on lisp"? ;) 00:23:31 today there are many cood web dev languages, ergo no need for Lisp in particular 00:23:35 many good* 00:23:51 plus it'll take you years to find 40 Lisp programmers, but you can get 100 mediocre Ruby programmers in a few months 00:24:22 i think choosing Python for a company in 2004 would have been a really good idea 00:24:32 not just because it was semi-obscure -- but because it became much popular within a few years 00:24:37 that's the have your cake and eat it too scenario 00:24:54 that's what I'm thinking / hoping for Clojure over the next few years 00:25:16 you start out with the high quality programmers, and then by the time you need to scale you can do so 00:25:29 obviously this is tricky to time ;) 00:27:34 lisp is older than c right? 00:27:37 yes 00:28:07 of still-used languages, only FORTRAN is older (if you're not counting assembly as a language) 00:28:19 and yet, lisp remains obscure 00:28:37 even assembly is less obscure 00:28:48 (guessing :P ) 00:29:26 a lot of people learn a little tiny bit of "lisp" 00:29:31 few use it for any real projects, though 00:30:15 maybe modern computer power will help 00:30:26 Clojure (a Lisp for the JVM) is starting to become popular 00:31:00 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 00:31:55 I think the issue is that most programmers can't grasp what makes Lisp different from other languages. they just think it's an imperative language with a funny parentheses based syntax. so they say, "eh, so what" and move on. 00:32:07 yeah 00:32:13 it annoys me to no end how people can't get past the parentheses 00:32:21 also, the range of libraries available for Common Lisp and Scheme has been quite poor compared to (say) Java or C. 00:32:38 maybe when enough time passes, someone will write a book to guide peopel 00:32:42 the CL community is openly hostile to newcomers, which doesn't help. 00:32:46 lisp hasnt been around long enough 00:32:58 even the advocates of lisp focus way too much on syntax (omg Lisp has none!) 00:33:01 which is a lie btw 00:33:09 every special form constitutes syntax 00:33:33 is it (let ((x 3) (y 4)) ...) or (let (x 3 y 4) ...)? well, CL and Scheme differ on this point, and that is a syntactic difference 00:33:42 oh, open hostility to newcomers... now this seems to be more likely part of the cause for lisp obscurity.. maybe they enjoy obscurity 00:34:20 i dont think a world in which lisp was coopted by the mainstream would be much fun for anyone 00:34:25 kmc: Is it foo(name=blah, contents=blam) or foo(title=blah, body=blam)? 00:34:44 Library X and library Y in Python differ on that, and that's a syntactic difference. 00:34:52 foo(name(blah) (contents(blah))) 00:34:56 kmc: in that sense, every macro you write introduces new syntax. I think the point of the "no syntax" argument is rather that everything is an S-expression 00:34:58 i dunno... i dont know lisp 00:35:01 Anyway that's a silly argument. 00:35:25 You can define syntax in a way that lisp has a lot of it, or not a lot of it, and it won't change anything about lisp. 00:35:35 kmc: as opposed to the 20-odd special syntax arrangements in Algol-derived languages - foo + bar; versus foo++; versus foo(bar); etc 00:35:54 kwertii: sure but S-expressions are only one of the layers of what i'd call syntax 00:36:09 if Lisp is only S-expressions then Lisp is only a data language (like XML) and not a programming language 00:36:16 you have to say what the token 'defun' means and what the token 'let' means and such 00:36:19 anyway 00:36:20 kmc: I'd call those things you mentioned "semantics" rather than syntax 00:36:20 shachaf is right of course 00:36:40 see i think the difference between (let ((x 3) (y 4)) ...) and (let (x 3 y 4) ...) is obviously a syntactic one 00:37:51 kmc: totally semantics. the syntax of both is just atoms and lists. 00:38:15 this is an arbitrary difference of opinion 00:38:16 The syntax of booth "foo + bar" and "foo++" is just characters! 00:38:52 yeah 00:39:00 kmc: it's arbitrary in some sense, but these terms have been kind of well defined in linguistics and comp sci already 00:39:06 though you're right, the line is not always clear 00:39:20 right, but many computer scientists include abstract syntax in the definition of syntax 00:39:36 shachaf: yeah, and that's why you need ridiculously complicated parsers to tokenize a language like that and make ... an S-tree graph out of it 00:39:45 *s-exp tree 00:40:02 kwertii: I think "C syntax -> AST" is a much simpler transformation than "AST -> optimized machine code" 00:41:09 Anyway this is a silly argument, like I said. 00:41:11 point is, C/whatever-language syntax is just a set of transformations on an s-exp tree. if you call those transformations "the syntax of C", then you can see where people come up with "Lisp has no syntax" (which isn't strictly true, but that's where it comes from) 00:41:26 it's all just functions on the natural numbers 00:41:30 If you want to say that lisp "has no syntax", fine. If you want to say that it "has syntax", fine. 00:41:53 what if i want to say it has syntax and syntax? 00:42:04 You can say that too, itidus21. 00:42:12 thanks 00:42:17 itidus21 has a special exemption such that he/she/it can say whatever he/she/it wants. 00:42:25 i would say that Lisp has three layers of syntax where most languages have two (lexical and parse tree) 00:42:40 * shachaf should dedicate his life to the noble cause of converting arguments about words to either nothing or arguments about meaning. 00:42:56 in particular, people like syntax to be something static, and reserve "semantics" for runtime behavior 00:43:20 and I know that CL does have some notion of compile time versus run time 00:43:55 shachaf: you plan to get a philosophy degree? :) 00:44:06 shachaf: I have one. it's not worth the trouble 00:44:13 it seems weird to say that we have no idea whether we should write (let ((x 3)) ...) or (let (x 3) ...) until runtime 00:44:29 kwertii: Philosophists spend way too much time arguing about things that aren't meaning. :-( 00:44:39 shachaf: I think everything is really arguments about words 00:44:45 sorrychaf 00:44:48 kwertii: Raymond Smullyan is a good philosophist, though. 00:44:55 shachaf: they spend plenty of time bickering over trivial distinctions of meaning between obscure technical terms that only 50 people in the entire world care about. 00:45:00 @quote formalist 00:45:00 SaulGorn says: A formalist is one who cannot understand a theory unless it is meaningless. 00:45:15 shachaf: I love Raymond Smullyan! Never met anyone who's heard of him, though, and Taoism is laughed out of the room in most academic phil depts in the US. 00:45:26 i downloaded some of his books 00:45:28 now you have met at least two of us 00:45:29 three! 00:45:31 havent e-read any of them 00:45:39 i found him on the wiki page of american taoists 00:45:41 kwertii: I don't care for philosophy departments much. 00:45:52 kmc: Have you heard of Raymond Smullyan from a source other than me? 00:45:54 shachaf: me, neither. thus, I work as a programmer rather than in a phil dept 00:46:04 shachaf: yes, from _The Mind's I_ 00:46:08 though i think i forgot the name 00:46:13 Ah, yes. 00:46:18 _The Mind's I_ is good. 00:46:24 Especially the Raymond Smullyan parts. :-) 00:46:26 (And also other parts.) 00:47:25 http://oi49.tinypic.com/35i0p5s.jpg 00:47:36 this is my (unread) smullyan books 00:47:40 gotta go out now bye 00:47:48 ttyl 00:48:02 kmc: You should read some of Smullyan's books! 00:48:14 probably 00:48:15 i suck at reading 00:48:29 Smullyan's books are so much fun to read, though. 01:04:07 Worlds stores a file with a silly encryption system 01:04:20 Although, admittedly, I only broke it with a Java decompiler 01:10:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:00 * kmc high fives Sgeo 01:17:14 i love breaking silly encryption with a java decompiler 01:17:25 420 break silly encryption with a java decompiler every day 01:28:50 As in, just reading what the algorithm is 01:29:04 Which I guess makes it not really encryption 01:29:13 More of ... an obfuscation 01:29:20 There's no key. 01:34:00 yeah 01:34:14 this is how i cheated at yahoo games poker in high school 01:40:27 kmc, did you get arrested 01:41:12 Kid, we only got one question. Have you ever been arrested? 01:43:07 no 01:43:13 it's not real money :/ 01:43:22 trollcoins only 02:00:39 -!- ais523 has quit. 02:13:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:13:38 -!- JaBoJa|2 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/). 02:19:02 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:35:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:07 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:42:53 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 02:45:03 -!- ion has joined. 03:02:10 -!- augur has joined. 03:23:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:24:02 -!- augur has joined. 03:25:45 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:26:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:26:51 another interesting american taoist on the wiki page was ursula something, who wrote some books the earthsea something 03:30:26 ^wikipedia 03:37:30 very specific 03:37:50 ^en.wikipedia 03:50:58 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:00:05 I'm not sure how I feel about ClojureScript macros being Clojure 04:00:17 It's kind of weird, having one language at runtime and a different at compile-time 04:00:20 Sort of un-lispy 04:13:34 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:24:02 WTF 04:24:16 This class provides a public static... I guess factory is the best term. 04:24:18 Overloads it 04:24:29 But one of the overloads just throws an exception 04:24:44 Oh, no, I misread ut 04:24:44 it 04:27:05 scheme also has one language at runtime and another for macros, sort of 04:27:26 it has several languages for macros, and you can use regular scheme in a cumbersome way 04:33:20 It has several languages for macros? 04:39:17 syntax-rules and syntax-case 04:39:55 i think syntax-case is not in r5rs, but is commonly implemented and there is a portable implementation of it 04:39:58 or something 04:43:17 What is it called if an assembler (which includes macros) has a section which can compile code into memory and then it is executed by an emulator before (or while) the output file of the section for file output is written? 04:44:40 it's called madness 04:44:58 Madness? 04:44:59 emulator alligator 04:45:28 Am I madness? 04:46:03 Mad, call I it; for, to define true madness, what is't but to be nothing else but mad? 04:47:06 There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity, and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity. 04:47:47 I have read of a "pathocircle" which is a circle with one point missing 04:51:18 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:57:39 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:09:09 -!- heroux has joined. 05:20:28 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:37:36 -!- augur has joined. 05:51:20 You say assembler like that is madness? Well, the assembler I use to write Famicom programs is like that. So, perhaps it is madness, too. 05:55:34 zzo38: Did you write said Famicom assembler? 05:56:16 That'd be a unique feature in an assembler, I think. 06:00:46 Fun fact, on May 1st 2012, Sweden made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-HO-MET illegal. 06:01:41 it's also probably illegal under the US Federal Analog Act, when bought or sold for human consumption. 06:01:55 but not any international law. 06:05:41 i took that once 06:05:51 pikhq: It is MagicKit assembler, although I have added various features and fixed various bugs, including that one I mentioned above. I also added macros to check if it is on the first or last pass, and some other things too. 06:09:19 Therefore my program is "Unofficial MagicKit". 06:11:24 I also was thinking about custom mappers. 06:11:31 kmc was taking 4-HO-MET before it was illegal. 06:11:41 yeppppp 06:12:32 kallisti: ooc, why do you mention 4-HO-MET? 06:13:35 One feature I have added is NES 2.0 headers. Someone wanted me to make NES 2.0 headers the default, but I don't want to. 06:14:29 kallisti: have you seen http://ugcs.net/~keegan/complexity.html 06:17:35 Features I intend to add but not yet have done so, are UNIF format, DotFami format, character encoding translation tables, and a few other things. 06:19:12 kmc: When does a drug stop being experimental? 06:19:29 Tomorrow. 06:21:50 I have an idea in the Dungeons&Dragons game. Some assassins try to kill me, and I have a correspond spell to communicate with anyone regardless of distance, so I have idea: During the day time when it is light, I can use this spell to tell them it is dark. 06:23:54 Do you like this? 06:26:10 shachaf: did you know it is the 40th birthday of BART? 06:26:15 there are banners up at stations and everything 06:26:25 the system actually opened on 9/11/1972 but i guess they wanted to avoid that date 06:27:09 My cjb.net account seems broken 06:28:52 I think my account expired but now I don't know how to create an account. 06:29:39 kmc: Nope, haven't been to SF in a while. 06:35:37 i guess EPA is pretty far from the end of BART 06:37:08 Yep. 06:37:11 Millbrae, I guess. 06:37:46 The way I usually get to SFO is Caltrain to Millbrae and then BART. 06:38:47 yeah 06:38:58 SFO BART is ridiculous 06:39:14 they should have just extended the SFO people mover to Milbrae 06:40:46 using big money airport tax funds to do so 06:41:22 also they should extend PATH to Newark Airport 06:41:51 kmc: No I haven't. have you read TiHKAL? 06:41:57 what is that link? 06:42:15 the link is a quiz "Complexity class or experimental drug" 06:42:21 i have read PiHKAL and parts of TiHKAL i think 06:42:52 Oh, I was thinking TiHKAL was a CS book. 06:42:54 Like TAPL. 06:43:01 hehehe 06:43:03 * shachaf is clearly not very good at that quiz. 06:43:03 you see 06:43:21 Types in Higher-Kinded Algebraic Logic 06:43:56 zzo38: tell who it is dark, the assassins? 06:50:46 06:42 < kmc> the link is a quiz "Complexity class or experimental drug" 06:50:49 lol'd 06:51:15 kmc: my god 06:51:27 (which doesn't actually exist) 06:51:52 Christian upgringing. it's in the lexicon. 06:52:06 ((??)) 06:53:20 itidus21: Yes. 06:58:19 zzo38: but what if they don't believe you 06:59:26 sorry :d 07:01:46 I thought of that too 07:04:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:12:48 yay 07:38:27 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:40:13 Account creation on cjb.net seems disabled, so I asked someone else to make a subdomain of one of theirs; they cannot do so, so instead we made up a new domain name: zzo38computer.org 07:46:27 zzo38: i miss writing html 07:46:48 or at least outputting html 07:46:55 I rarely write HTML 07:47:12 it was a wonderful thing 07:47:22 almost anyone could do it 07:48:33 I think I like Hiccup 07:49:55 This Is My Post

I don't know hiccup.


07:50:38 don't you just feel trolled when you see html code? 07:51:44 like theres something evil about posting it 07:51:50 (html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg}]]]) 07:52:10 (comment "I only think that's correct, I do not know for certain 07:52:14 ") 07:52:19 Oh, forgot to close a string 07:52:26 (html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg"}]]]) 07:52:44 (html [:html [:head [:title "This Is My Post"]] [:body {:bgcolor "#FFFFFF"} [:h1 "I do know Hiccup."] [:br] [:img {:src "shrug.jpg"}]]]) 07:57:52 Well, ok, so I don't know hiccup that well 07:58:19 That img could be replaced with (image "shrug.jpg") 08:03:07 -!- UnknownCharacter has joined. 08:03:17 i loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 08:06:06 `WELCOME UnknownCharacter 08:06:18 UNKNOWNCHARACTER: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 08:06:55 i was just passing by 08:07:01 but thanks for welcoming me 08:07:04 oh its just a bot command 08:07:20 it makes for grandoise welcomings 08:07:23 well, fuck u then 08:08:02 srory 08:08:05 ^sorry 08:08:15 im sorry, 2 08:08:32 let's make out to make up only if u r a hot girl 08:08:46 im not sure if there are any girls here 08:09:00 there's lymia, or did she leave 08:09:02 let alone hot ones 08:09:04 she hasn't talked in a while 08:09:20 there was tiffany but we successfully scared her off 08:09:34 i love girls whose names start with t 08:10:45 at any rate 08:10:55 i came here to tell you all a story 08:11:19 go on... 08:11:59 a story about how i fell in love... and a few years later died in a pool of blood and tears 08:13:05 oh 08:13:08 yes, im dead but my spirit remained. somehow I am able to chat through the internet. 08:13:08 that must be nice 08:13:37 it was nice at the beginning. All the promises, the innocense, the freedom. 08:14:07 but that all changed one fated stormy night. 08:14:36 the beginning of being dead or the beginning of being in love 08:14:52 of being in love 08:15:16 right 08:16:38 I found out that she didn't love me anymore. That she never really did. Confused and without any desire to do anything but let out the blackest of emotions out of my heart. 08:16:50 did you kill her then 08:16:55 I broke mind, spirit, soul 08:17:39 she had broken my heart... 08:18:16 anyway anyway skip to the blood and tears 08:18:41 well, i was crying already. 08:18:55 ok so who stabbed whom 08:19:00 did you both stab each other 08:19:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:19:22 with the rain covering my tears... i sat down on some stairs leading to a parking lot 08:19:39 can you type a bit faster please 08:19:40 and i wondered why this all happened. 08:19:50 i'm getting bored between messages 08:19:58 dont rush me, emotions cant be rushed 08:20:08 but typing can 08:20:23 typing can be an emotion 08:20:38 if you dont wanna listen to the story 08:20:40 then dont 08:20:43 no i do 08:20:45 that's the point 08:20:54 anyway go on 08:21:43 Devastate I was. Lost in my thoughts. Feeling an immense pain in my chest. Growing tighter as I thought about her grin 08:21:51 Phantom_Hoover: please let the man tell his story. 08:22:15 wtf kallisti 08:22:24 psionics? 08:22:32 it's been known to happen. 08:22:50 oh for fuck's sake story story story 08:23:26 remembering her indifference. It hurted ... it twisted my insides. 08:23:37 I wanted for it to stop. And then suddenly, I knew how. 08:23:59 kill her? 08:24:16 seppuku? 08:24:18 I knew also that if I did what I was planning on doing. I may stop having a heart 08:24:28 but I didn't care... I just wanted the pain to go away. 08:24:29 organ donation? 08:24:39 nop, i killed myself. 08:24:44 how 08:24:46 with a knife. 08:24:52 hmm, where 08:25:01 i hope you donated your organs 08:25:32 lol... okay, I didn't kill myself... but i wish i had thought of that. 08:25:54 well how does the story land you here? 08:26:10 i lost my train of thought. sorry 08:26:33 i mean.. can you guide the story through to arriving at #esoteric ? 08:27:07 he thought it was the other sort of esoteric and hoped he could get spiritual guidance 08:27:14 Some heavies can only be taken away by talking about it. 08:27:24 or i think thats how the quote goes. 08:27:52 so, here I am talking about it. Letting the pain go away. 08:27:53 best way to deal with heavies is a spy or sniper, don't let anyone tell you different 08:28:11 it does seem that way.. he hasn't made any references to brainfuck, lisp, turing, or haskell 08:28:20 okay, this is how the story really goes. 08:28:50 I was suffering a lot. I wanted the pain to stop. 08:29:27 So, I decided to break all the promises that I did to her, Destroy all of our dreams, just forget she ever existed. 08:30:02 not much emotion said there cause at this point... at felt indifferent as well. 08:30:17 However, the emotions will come back from time to time. 08:30:36 It haunts me. Makes me wonder if what I lived that night was how I imagine it to be. 08:31:01 as for dying in a pool of blood and tears 08:31:11 that probably didn't happen 08:31:16 it hasnt happened yet... but somehow I know it will. 08:31:53 so... to deal with your suicidal thoughts as a result of a bitter and traumatising breakup, you came to a channel about weird programming languages 08:31:54 you'd never know what truly happen... my emotions have clouded my memory. So, id never know either. 08:32:11 apparently, phantom 08:32:12 couldn't you talk to a psychiatrist, or one of those helplines they have? 08:32:25 they kinda annoy me 08:32:26 so no 08:32:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:32:47 plus, im an artist. 08:33:04 I chose to be a story teller this time to express my self. 08:33:09 oerjan, help someone came here looking for advice 08:33:19 i did? 08:33:32 i was just telling a story in the first person xD 08:33:45 sorry, my unicode setup isn't good enough to handle unknown characters 08:34:19 Let your wonder guide you in finding the mysteries and the unknown. 08:35:15 -!- nooga has joined. 08:35:23 this channel isn't about the other sort of esoteric btw 08:35:30 Ha, it was fun. 08:35:30 just in case you hadn't realised 08:35:36 it was fun anyway. 08:35:36 the topic isn't helpful right now 08:35:50 (was esme the name of your mysterious rejectress) 08:35:58 i wonder if he realizes what this channel is about 08:36:18 i realize it, but i just ignore the purpose of this channel 08:36:20 Phantom_Hoover: it _does_ say "programming language" in plain text, that's better than normal 08:36:24 but i am aware of it 08:36:26 Nop. 08:36:36 Her name isnt esme. 08:36:49 then it must be ralda 08:36:59 close 08:37:00 it's only logical 08:37:04 talda? 08:37:13 told'ya? 08:37:14 yup, thats it 08:37:51 any huevos, I think imma let you computer geeks do your stuff 08:37:55 now 08:38:22 so long and thanks for listening 08:38:30 -!- UnknownCharacter has left. 08:38:37 well that was surreal 08:41:22 why is the world unusually noisy today :( 08:41:58 or rather, why is the _low_ noise unusually annoying 08:48:28 I was going to ask if someone pointed him to a hotline, but I see it was mentioned 09:06:11 -!- soundnfury has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:38 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:21:05 -!- kinoSi has joined. 11:30:23 -!- ztirf has joined. 11:52:35 -!- boily has joined. 12:01:32 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:02:37 hi 12:02:51 hi 12:03:00 i fixed your fibonacci a little 12:05:29 Before fixing, was it so that F_{n-2} + F_{n-1} was *almost* but not quite F_n? 12:05:40 ...no. 12:06:47 you could say that a couple of while loops had their tests reversed. 12:07:43 which caused things not to happen at the right time, and it _looked_ like it essentially started turning into a fork bomb. 12:08:29 Arc_Koen: i had four cars by the time i decided something had to be wrong :P 12:09:17 haha 12:09:23 yeah I guess I should've added comments 12:09:49 left column is supposed to be the "smaller" number, and right column is the bigger 12:10:07 left column is added to a clone of right column, then destroyed 12:10:28 and then the clone becomes the new right column, and the original right column becomes the left column 12:10:31 i did figure it out eventually, i realized it made little sense for a loop to the left that only ever went at most once around 12:10:47 things is I had started doing the opposite - right column added to left column 12:11:08 I changed so that the smaller one got added, because then it's more efficient 12:11:16 right 12:11:16 (since it takes less time to add a smaller number) 12:13:24 if I were to implement it I guess I would allow function names to use the separator as a third letter, cause two-letter names don't mean much 12:13:57 two letters should be enough for everyone! 12:16:03 One letter seems to be generally speaking enough for mathematicians, so two sounds like plenty. 12:16:07 (What language is this?) 12:16:14 Maze 12:25:09 well when I program in ocaml, most variables are only one letter 12:25:16 but those are the "small" variables 12:25:48 variables that get used a lot (because they are global, or whatever) I give meaningful names 12:26:43 oerjan: the option I forgot about in the talk page, in case of multiple choices: make the car continue straight 12:27:19 that is, as long as it can go straight, it goes straight 12:27:39 only if an instruction tells it to turn, of if there is a wall ahead, will it try the other ways 12:28:02 but in this case if there is a T intersection, with turn right and turn left available but not go straight, then it's still blocked 12:28:51 ok 12:29:42 and if the car is forced into a wall by a direction or a splitter, I guess it would either result in an error, or the car would actually driver over the wall 12:30:13 because the purpose of walls is to guide the car when it has no directions, so I guess they shouldn't matter when the car actually has a direction 12:30:52 right 12:31:18 well i don't think a car should actually _get_ through the wall. 12:32:12 well I guess it would result in an error at the next tick, when the car tries to execute the instruction it is currently on 12:32:38 or it would destroy the car, but in this case holes are kind of pointless 12:45:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:49:00 Purely going on movie physics, it sounds like the car should explode. 12:55:26 when I was little I had this video game where you could destroy a wall, stand where it used to be, save the game, shut it off, then on again, and the wall would be back there... with you on top of it 12:56:17 and then the wall basically acted as an empty cell as long as you were standing on it (that is, once you get off it, you can't get on again) 12:57:15 (so, you can't walk into a wall, but you're allowed to "already" be on it 12:58:21 I think we had a law like that in france... underages were allowed to smoke, but not to buy cigarettes 13:01:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:02:55 It's possible that our current law re alcohol is similar. It's illegal to sell or give the stuff to minors, but I don't think it's illegal for them to actually possess or drink it. (Could be wrong here.) 13:05:09 may be the same here - though I guess the policy when minors are caught drinking is "call the parents" 13:08:27 Oh, seems that possession and transportation is also illegal for them. 13:08:34 But I'm sure there's something else that's similar. 13:09:29 -!- ztirf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:11:14 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:11:24 Arc_Koen: yeah i prefer that sort of coding 13:12:13 Also I sort of thought that our age limit for "strong" (> 22 vol%) drinks was 21, but seems that it's 20. 13:12:13 it works well with functional programming, I guess 13:12:48 -!- mtve has joined. 13:13:14 i think its a better game in fjidjiojeiojdewiojdiewjdiwejdiwejdiwjio why does my mom have to check up on me and leave my door ajar then wash her hands loudly 13:15:00 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:15:09 dammit nvg's python version is too old to run jolvering >_< 13:15:22 *jolverine 13:15:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:15:44 half-life 3: the anxiety transferance gun 13:16:58 gabe newell is a cyborg at this point 13:17:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: LAter). 13:29:30 -!- cuttlefish has joined. 13:34:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:58:36 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:15:46 -!- yiyus has joined. 15:32:26 -!- atriq has joined. 15:34:14 Today I thought of a brilliant way to obfuscate haskell 15:34:26 Rebindable Syntax, Overloaded Strings 15:34:48 fromInteger _ a _ = a; fromRational _ x y z = x z (y z); fromString _ = unsafeCoerce 15:36:28 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:36:47 -!- carado has joined. 15:38:53 -!- carado_ has joined. 15:38:58 -!- carado_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:41:01 This lets you do crazy things 15:41:09 Including computationally everything 15:41:25 I think fromString _ = fix also works 15:45:51 Then with 0, 0.0, and "0", you can do ANYTHING 15:46:08 Except IO 15:46:12 And some other things 15:52:35 NOW TO ABUSE THIS AND MAKE #haskell PANIC 16:01:50 But what... 16:01:53 Hmm 16:02:51 Ackermann function? 16:03:18 Collatz sequence? 16:13:04 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:13:35 -!- carado has joined. 16:18:33 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:35 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: No route to host). 16:18:47 -!- nooga has joined. 16:19:05 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:25:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:27:46 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:34 -!- atriq has joined. 16:36:57 -!- carado has joined. 16:49:44 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:58:46 -!- carado has joined. 17:06:46 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:13:26 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:38:32 -!- augur has joined. 17:39:43 atriq: wow 17:39:54 you are a maniac 17:39:57 i tip my hat to you 17:41:17 atriq: sweet 17:41:58 hmm, how does something like 0"0" lex in haskell? you might not need any whitespace even 17:43:45 you probably need parens for grouping though 17:46:37 do anyone of you happen to have xorg shape extension header file? 17:47:12 my system doesn't seem to have it 17:48:39 and X11/extensions/XTest.h 17:49:20 i have /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h 17:50:03 As do I 17:50:49 can those be downloaded separately from somewhere? 17:51:23 olsner, you don't need a space 17:51:30 because I'm not going to compile xorg on this macgine 17:51:34 *machine 17:51:43 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5073040/how-to-find-x11-extensions-xtest-h 17:52:38 I have that package installed 17:53:42 matti@konata:~$ pacman -Qo /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h 17:53:42 /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h is owned by libxtst 1.2.1-1 17:53:46 Maybe you should install Arch 17:54:17 if my computer had enough ram to boot the installer :/ 17:54:35 There's no installer 17:55:12 But if your computer can't run the live environment, you should consider buying a new one. 17:55:33 why? 17:55:40 it runs slitaz fast ennough 17:56:00 well slitaz without x11 and much of busybox replaced with toybox but still 17:57:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 17:57:57 What do you actually /do/ with such a computer 17:58:48 well I program, irc, surf web, listen to music, play video, play touhou, tweak 17:59:11 and of course try to squeeze last bit of performance out of it 17:59:20 Wiat 17:59:35 You play touhou on a computer that can't even run X11? 17:59:42 Or were you just talking about running everything off RAM 17:59:50 it can run x11 18:00:06 I just usually don't do it as it slows down the computer 18:00:36 also I only play pc98 touhous. I like those more compared to windows touhous 18:01:01 also if my computer can't run x11 why would I need the header files for x11? 18:01:02 ...I bet you don't like them just because they need more RAM 18:01:34 I dunno, for all I know you might have a dumb terminal to act as the server or whatnot 18:01:40 I wouldn't be surprised if you did! 18:01:57 no. I liked pc98 touhous more even when I had computer with enough ram to play them smoothly without any kind of hacks 18:02:19 What did you do to your computer!? 18:03:11 nothing. the hd controller just broke 18:05:03 and this is upgrade to the machine I used before this but after my ibook g4 broke 18:05:13 it had 100MHz P1 and 40MB of RAM 18:05:23 I ran DSL on it 18:06:47 worked pretty well but I wouldn't switch back to it unless I had 18:07:01 video playback was terribly slow 18:09:01 oh. almost forgot. I also run two instances of my ircbot and my web server on backgtound 18:09:50 My crappy cell phone from ten years ago probably had more megahertz and megabytes than that 18:10:07 I don't think so 18:10:18 nokia 9300 has same amount of ram 18:10:21 oh wait, yours has more memory I think. 18:10:42 But the venerable N-GAGE ran at 104MHz 18:10:59 and something like iphone 3g has same amount of meghertz 18:11:23 oh you were talking about that P1 computer and not my main computer 18:11:32 oh yes 18:11:42 What's the specs on your main computer then 18:11:54 700MHz P3, 64 RAM 18:12:02 And that can't run Arch's live environment? 18:12:54 almost every distro requires at least 128MB nowadays 18:13:59 I dunno if the wiki's up to date but it says 64MB minimum on one page. 18:14:29 well arch cd ran out of memory when it was starting up x11 18:14:39 So don't start X11 18:14:53 it did that automaticaly 18:15:07 wtf did you download exactly 18:15:31 The main Arch media is just for installation and it boots into a root shell 18:15:31 No X 18:15:36 hmm 18:15:40 interesting 18:15:49 There used to be an "installer" but it was character-based 18:16:06 Also burning CDs sucks, I prefer USB memory 18:16:25 well this thing has usb 1.1 and can't boot directly from it 18:17:40 All the more reason to get a new computer 18:17:42 Slackware 3.4 has a special LOWMEM.TXT for machines that have 4 megabytes or RAM or less. 18:17:44 Optical media is obsolete to me. 18:17:47 It's slightly old, though. 18:19:43 I can't recall which computer I had when I was installing that thing. It was either the 486sx/33 with 8M of memory, or the p233mmx with something ridiculous (64M? 256M!? maybe 64M...) of memory. 18:21:26 nortti: you can download the -dev .deb and extract it 18:26:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:28:46 fizzie: is 64M ridicilous? 18:30:04 I just recall it felt like some really big number. So maybe it was the 256M. 18:30:06 Lumpio-: can I replace all the gnu just in arch with busybox alternatives? 18:30:07 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:30:17 Or perhaps 128M. 18:30:35 s/just/junk/ 18:33:56 If I just trim down the kernel a bit, I could *totally* have a Linux system for you running in 4 megs of RAM. 18:34:04 (warning: do *not* run the compiler. Ever.) 18:34:21 or just use the updated linux 0.0.1 from 2008 18:34:22 not even tcc? 18:34:29 kmc: no 18:34:48 does ack work with linux? 18:35:43 with ack I refer to ack compiler, not that grep replacement 18:36:12 it runs nicely on my minix 1.5 box with 2MB of RAM 18:36:23 or another option is really old 1.x gcc 18:37:50 kmc: tcc would work. 18:38:00 kmc: I'm using gcc because tcc won't build Linux. 18:38:35 doesn't tcc use more than 4MB? 18:38:50 pikhq: yes it will. linux 2.4 18:39:45 nortti: That was heavily patched, and I'm using 3.0 anyways. :) 18:39:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:40:14 alias ld='swapon /dev/fd0;ld' 18:40:15 Well, 3.5 18:40:39 put the swap on a network drive or something 18:41:01 Still, busybox will run *happily* in a meg of RAM. 18:41:13 Assuming a sane libc, of course. 18:41:26 like µClibc or musl? 18:41:30 Yes. 18:41:39 is dietlibc sane? 18:42:16 Not really. 18:42:27 It's small, but blatantly non-conformant in several areas. 18:42:28 Jafet: o_o 18:42:33 i once used swap over NFS 18:43:07 It's also honestly not *that* much smaller than musl. 18:43:15 pikhq: is bionic sane :P 18:43:42 musl is ~3 times as much dietlibc, but that's largely because musl offers many functions that dietlibc doesn't. 18:43:57 (and if you don't use those functions, they aren't in your binary when static linked anyways) 18:44:00 nortti: Hell no. 18:44:35 how can someone break libc so badly 18:45:37 ach du libc 18:45:53 @google libgreat 18:45:55 https://github.com/lispmeister/libgreat 18:46:11 bionic isn't really supposed to be a libc right 18:46:31 it is a userspace library to help in the writing of dalvik and other android system stuff 18:46:36 which bears some resemblence to a libc 18:46:51 I think bionic is the libc used by ndk/jni code on android 18:47:15 yeah but ndk code is supposed to be mostly computation and not system stuff 18:47:23 i don't think they advertise it as a full POSIX / C compliant environment 18:47:25 shrug 18:47:57 well, does anyone advertise as that? 18:48:04 (except microsoft) 18:48:08 apple does 18:48:25 the mac os x I mean 18:49:36 kmc: It's not a full POSIX / C environment, but there's no real reason it shouldn't be, if not strictly compliant, at least close... 18:49:42 Is Linux not POSIX compliant? I'm vaguely aware it's not certified as such, or something 18:49:54 kmc: Except that Google only cares about having enough of a libc that Dalvik runs. 18:50:09 POSIX isn't completely linux compliant 18:50:14 Sgeo: wikipedia says it isn't 18:50:21 but minix 2 is 18:50:23 wtf 18:50:37 ... And they have a strict no-GPL-in-userspace policy, making use of extant Linux libcs a fucking pain. 18:50:58 (well, now that musl's MIT licensed they could use that, but that wasn't an option way-back-when, and switching libcs is still a damned pain.) 18:51:14 yeah 18:51:20 no-GPL-in-usespace? what? 18:51:23 *userspace 18:51:27 also same for busybox 18:51:38 so they have their broken toolbox 18:51:42 Sgeo: Linux itself cannot be POSIX compliant, but I'm pretty sure it supports enough functionality that a POSIX environment could be had reasonably. 18:52:00 I *think* musl might actually be, if you assume a set of POSIX utils? 18:52:16 Heck, I think glibc might be POSIX compliant modulo weird-ass edge cases. 18:53:11 maybe it is because gnu dd automaticaly assumes 1024b block size instead of 512b 18:53:34 POSIX_ME_HARDER 18:53:37 ... Oh, wait, getopt. 18:53:54 You need to force some environment flags down glibc's throat for getopt to conform. 18:54:10 oh yeah. getopt 18:54:15 POSIXLY_CORRECT does some of the things. 18:54:20 There's probably other similar breakage. 18:54:38 And I'd bet solidly on there being bugs in pthreads. 18:54:38 Like enables the 512-byte blocks. 18:54:57 Just because pthreads are somewhat complex, and more so in glibc. 18:56:21 "somewhat" 18:56:42 musl pthreads are a mere 10k. :) 18:58:02 http://git.musl-libc.org/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi?url=musl/tree/src/thread/sem_open.c being the most complex chunk of source in it. 18:58:23 I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere had run the (freely available) PCTS on some of these things, though. (At least some old versions are freely-freely available. VSX-PCTS2003 "is available for no fee to organizations submitting products for certification", which might not quite count.) 18:59:08 what is PCTS? 18:59:20 POSIX Conformance Test Suite. 18:59:26 oh 19:02:43 Unfortunately, that's only for POSIX 2003... 19:03:01 musl doesn't even pretend to conform to old standard versions. 19:03:06 What is POSIX-compliant these days, such that there's a POSIX 2003? 19:03:22 In 2003, I turned 7. 19:03:26 No wait 19:03:28 The other one 19:03:29 8 19:03:30 No 19:03:32 9 19:03:33 Sgeo: POSIX 2008 is the latest version. 19:03:33 Yes 19:03:34 stop 19:03:40 in 2003 I turned 6 19:03:55 pikhq, are there any POSIX 2008 compliant things out there? Maybe the BSDs? 19:04:58 Certified as such, I dunno. 19:05:00 According to http://get.posixcertified.ieee.org/docs/testsuites.html the only test suites are for 2003. 19:05:12 Actually compliant? Quite possibly. 19:20:59 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:21:26 -!- kinoSi has joined. 19:31:56 I swear I've done this before 19:39:10 I have done this many times before... 19:39:34 atriq, are you going crazy 19:39:50 AAAH YES I AM 19:39:57 Or at least forget to save things 19:40:22 brains have autosave 19:40:38 Hmm 19:40:44 Where can I get one of these brains 19:41:04 you ingest them and thus gain their powers 19:41:04 Anyway, I'm making a predecessor function in SK calculus 19:41:43 You have integers? 19:41:54 Church numbers 19:42:06 ooh, numbered churches 19:42:37 Hexham has too many churches 19:42:44 What kind of Church numbers? 19:43:02 \fx.x, \fx.fx, \fx.f(fx), etc 19:44:02 What the predecessor of \fx.x? 19:44:10 \fx.x 19:44:17 :-( 19:45:08 unless you consider that cheating, there's an implementation on the wikipedia page for church numerals 19:45:25 That is not cheating at all 19:45:40 Except that's in the lambda calculus 19:45:51 Not the SK combinator calculus 19:45:58 translating that to SK is a trivial exercise 19:46:01 atriq: there's an implementation hidden in the unlambda deadfish >:) 19:46:16 olsner, it's a really tedious exercise 19:46:22 somewhere close to the ?d , presumably 19:49:40 it _might_ be precisely the lines strictly between the lines of the ?d and the ?o, but no guarantee 19:50:37 hm is ``s``s`ks ``s`k`s`ks ``s`k`s`kk i `ki 19:50:58 increment again... 19:51:17 -!- JaBoJa has joined. 19:53:27 Are there any esoteric markup languages? 19:54:15 JaBoJa, not as far as I am aware 19:54:20 `welcome JaBoJa 19:54:42 JaBoJa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:55:06 I tried to make one once, didn't get very far 19:55:20 What it looked like? 19:55:48 Not much 19:56:01 Basically a series of instructions about putting things in boxes 20:02:03 -!- kenyerlin has joined. 20:03:09 las niñas digan yo 20:04:58 `welcome kenyerlin 20:04:58 -!- JaBoJa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:05:02 -!- JaBoJa|2 has joined. 20:05:04 kenyerlin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:05:09 :):-*:-*=-O8-) 20:06:33 hola como estan 20:07:02 oerjan, that appears to be increment 20:07:36 yes, i just finished checking 20:08:02 atriq: that means the lines i mentioned, which are in the corresponding spot for ?d, should be decrement 20:08:56 son de venezuela :) 20:09:00 Thanks 20:14:54 -!- JaBoJa has joined. 20:14:57 -!- JaBoJa|2 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/). 20:17:00 I wonder if I'm allowed to like the Clojure ecosystem, not directly because of its access to Java libraries, but because its access to Java libraries brought other people over, and those people made nice elegant Clojure libraries. 20:21:47 yes, but you're not allowed to meta-ponder it like that. 20:22:00 * oerjan crawls back under rock 20:23:48 Apparently, #clojure thinks of me as the annoying monad person. And one person says it's because I complain without actually taking action to fix anything. 20:25:44 -!- kenyerlin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:25:54 -!- kenyerlin has joined. 20:26:39 nnm 20:27:00 kenyerlin: no hablo español 20:27:33 q idioma 20:30:49 most of us speak english here 20:31:04 :-D 20:34:06 I'm not sure, but I think the majority might actually be non-native English speakers. 20:34:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:23 heh 20:34:36 what language do they speak in Hexham? 20:34:48 Hexhammish. Clearly. 20:35:58 hexham on the exam 20:36:41 The Axeman of Hexham. 20:37:49 -!- kenyerlin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:43 maximize the hammocks 20:38:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:39:33 Update your links (if you have any) to my computer! My domain name has changed from zzo38computer.cjb.net to zzo38computer.org 20:40:01 zzo38: i used the external links search page to fix some more on the wiki 20:40:21 Somehow it looks immediately more professional when it has a top-level name right after it. 20:40:54 oerjan: OK, thanks. I tried to use that 20:41:06 Note this includes all protocols. 20:50:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night, maybe). 20:53:31 kmc: There're slides/videos for nominolo's GHC JIT thing, it looks like. 20:58:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:04:08 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 21:05:57 hello 21:06:07 Hey 21:08:03 -!- augur has joined. 21:08:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:10:56 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:11:03 huh, Slashdot's owners have just been bought out 21:11:59 sourceforge's too 21:13:42 they're the same owners :) 21:13:48 Yep 21:14:01 but Slashdot is still vaguely relevant, whereas Sourceforge isn't really 21:18:53 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:20:07 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 21:32:02 ais523: Hey now, I just got a new "project of the month is this and that" email from them. 21:57:18 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:00:04 -!- itidus20 has joined. 22:04:04 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:14:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:23:34 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]). 22:37:41 -!- pumpkin has joined. 22:43:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:43:49 -!- cuttlefish has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:44 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:09:25 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:27:42 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 23:48:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Goodnight). 23:51:38 -!- itidus20 has changed nick to itidus21. 23:51:46 buhh 23:53:26 -!- madbr has joined.