00:08:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:22:40 Everyone's jumping ship, I see. 00:23:04 ? 00:23:04 elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 00:23:23 I guess they might also just be sleeping. 00:23:42 @ask monqy your messages were beautiful. 00:23:42 Consider it noted. 00:23:48 @ask monqy I will watch your brogue game 00:23:48 Consider it noted. 00:30:49 -!- Yonkie has quit. 00:38:50 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 00:38:53 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 00:39:56 @@ @tell ion @echo @echo @echo @echo @echo 00:39:56 Consider it noted. 00:45:05 -!- elliott has joined. 00:45:10 @ask monqy nice D:1 plate armour, you cheater 00:45:10 Consider it noted. 00:45:55 elliott: Did you see that great SO question? 00:49:57 probably not 00:50:33 was it great 00:53:47 @ask monqy close call with the purple gas and the shattering on D:7 00:53:47 Consider it noted. 00:54:37 What game? 00:55:17 Sgeo__: brogue 00:55:21 it's excellent, you should play it 00:56:13 @ask monqy either the recording viewer handles it badly (slowly) or you actually rest manually instead of using Z 00:56:13 Consider it noted. 00:57:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:57:25 Ah. Really wish there were brogue servers 00:57:53 -!- pumpkin has joined. 00:58:32 i'm idly working on a streaming patch. recording files work pretty well, though. 00:58:41 a lot of them are posted on the forums 01:01:14 Cool, at the streaming patch 01:12:38 @ask monqy goes out of sync on turn 8728 : ( 01:12:38 Consider it noted. 01:39:54 -!- kwertii has joined. 01:43:42 I made this MagicKit improvements http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9137 but you can tell me please if you think should have other improvements too, which one do you want? 02:20:16 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:22:07 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:35 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:27:39 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:38:39 > co "coward" 02:38:42 "ward" 02:42:57 co? 02:45:43 @source co 02:45:43 co not available 02:49:44 @src co 02:49:44 Source not found. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 02:53:40 @check \coy -> co y == case coy of 'c':'o':y -> y; y -> 'c':'o':y 02:53:41 Not in scope: `co' 02:57:24 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:57:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:08:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:15:19 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:16:02 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 03:56:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:59:07 -!- monqy has joined. 03:59:20 hello monqy 04:00:56 hi 04:00:56 monqy: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 05:07:19 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:29 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 05:58:22 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:30:58 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:53:48 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:01:25 -!- nooga has joined. 07:25:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:33:38 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:37:10 -!- soundnfury has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:39:52 -!- soundnfury has joined. 08:52:53 -!- itidus20 has joined. 08:55:18 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:12:23 -!- itidus20 has changed nick to itidus21. 09:35:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:37:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:37:52 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:55:08 hi shachaf 09:55:31 hi kmc 09:57:45 kmc: Now I can't randomly move conversations over to the other channel! 09:58:13 I'm not quite sure what happened but I hope you stick around somewhere or other. 10:00:39 -!- derdon has joined. 10:01:23 thanks 10:01:30 what happened should be pretty clear if you read the logs 10:02:54 mysterious 10:03:19 I read the logs and couldn't figure it out. 10:04:13 joshua_ was a douche to me in a way that i can't really tolerate 10:04:30 i explained why i was upset, and gave him an opportunity to say something in response, which he declined to do 10:04:33 so i left 10:04:52 * shachaf 's people-being-rude-on-the-Internet detector may be broken. 10:04:57 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:05:24 elliott: "exciting #suction happenings" 10:15:36 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:58:26 Buttermilk "plays" with her "friends" http://youtu.be/5IuRzJRrRpQ 11:16:44 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi). 11:32:30 elliott, Brogue has an ID system o.O 11:32:51 is Sgeo__ playing brogue 11:33:06 monqy, I might start 11:33:10 Currently just reading wiki 11:33:18 I hear the wiki contains wrong information 11:33:41 elliott: are you going to teach sgeo how to be good at brogue 11:35:15 elliott, Brogue has an ID system o.O 11:35:16 astonishing 11:35:19 a roguelike with an id system 11:35:33 Sgeo__: just play it, it spoils you on 90% of everything if you look at descriptions 11:35:44 including hit rolls etc. 11:35:53 elliott, I was under the impression that id systems were generally disliked in here, or by someone in here, or is that specific to Crawl and NetHack IDing? 11:36:08 i don't like most id systems and crawl's is especially bad 11:36:13 brogue's is not objectionable 11:38:17 It's interesting to read about a game without playing it. 11:40:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:40:37 http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Staff_of_Blinking 11:40:49 The description in-game does not appear to be enough to aide with proper use 11:41:46 oh no 11:41:49 Sgeo__: it is impossible to write a complete strategy guide for use of items and terrain in brogue because the whole game is figuring out how to exploit those things within the context of a randomly generated terrain; it is 100% a game about dealing with what you get and exploiting your surroundings to your advantage 11:42:10 therefore the only guide that can possibly be helpful for 90% of things is trial and error, building the skill of learning to recognise uses 11:42:30 there are some things that are relatively constant (for instance, how to play the id game) but those are easily figured out in a game or two if not explained 11:42:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:43:00 elliott, by proper use, I mean details of how the item functions such as "It uses all the charges to put you $num_of_charges spaces in that direction" 11:43:28 huh? 11:43:33 elliott, did you read what I linked? 11:43:50 yes. 11:44:04 the in-game description is perfectly consistent, only a misreading would suggest the erroneous interpretation that the wiki tries to suggest; 11:44:09 additionally, the in-game targetting makes it completely clear 11:44:11 as it displays the beam 11:44:20 and hence you would see it is impossible to use it to teleport 11:44:34 Ah, ok 11:45:53 iirc at least the guide thing on the wiki is terrible 11:46:06 i dont read the wiki so 11:47:47 I like watching Let's Plays 11:47:52 I'll see if there's a Let's Play 11:48:07 Sgeo__: just watch one of the recordings on the forum or something 11:48:26 mikeym or Creaphis or i-forget-who-else if you want to see a good player 11:49:04 Hmm, anything wrong with watching one on YouTube? 11:49:13 I actually get narration that way. 11:49:26 I guess even though I tend to prefer blind LPs, there's no point with Brogue? 11:49:37 how can you use your imagination if you have narration 11:49:41 how can you use your imagination if you're not playing yourself 11:49:43 how can you use your imagination, sgeo 11:50:16 It's not an LP if there's no commentary, really. 11:50:45 Oh, the one I'm watching is largely blind 11:51:34 why would you watch a blind lp of brogue, don't want any informative information or spoiling on how to play well? 11:52:09 Because I like blind LPs, it's fun to watch someone struggle to learn how to play a game 11:52:32 I tend to look for text if I want to learn how to play a game well 11:53:10 monqy: sgeo doesn't like doing things, he just likes consuming media about doing things 11:53:25 What elliott said. 11:53:43 it is sad that you agree 11:57:38 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:00:05 This person has Homestuck music playing in the background 12:01:25 good to know 12:01:56 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 249 seconds). 12:02:45 -!- boily has joined. 12:11:47 elliott, isn't reading Boatmurdered the same? 12:12:35 Phantom_Hoover: the same as what 12:12:48 Consuming media about doing things. 12:13:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 12:25:16 -!- boily has joined. 12:32:46 So, how are people supposed to know about altars? 12:33:07 Um, ok, maybe not "altars" 12:33:23 Um, carpeted rooms with the items and when you take one item cages fall around the rest 12:35:08 "Either Incendiary darts or a potion of incineration are always generated on the level." about "Flammible Barricade in the Doorway" 12:35:18 Is that explained in the game somehow, or is that a genuine spoiler? 12:40:39 Mind you, I think the person I'm watching is an idiot: Attacking a thing that's described as containing poisoned gas? 12:41:00 : ) 12:42:27 Sgeo__: maybe you should play the game rather than asking people to do your research on the game for you 12:51:06 -!- ogrom has joined. 12:52:58 * Sgeo__ downloads 1.6.4 12:53:03 (Had 1.6.2 on here before) 12:57:51 Someone told me how to change the size once but I forgot 13:00:44 PageDown 13:04:55 It, uh, apparently comes with a bot 13:06:11 what do you mean 13:06:29 -!- itidus21 has joined. 13:06:46 clearly any form of automation of anything is a "bot" 13:06:50 wouldn't you agree, itidus21 13:07:15 Well, it seems to automate playing the game... 13:07:22 does it? 13:07:23 for the greater good i will quietly agree 13:07:28 thank you 13:07:50 What's Autopilot 13:07:59 why don't you try it out 13:08:04 It seems to explore and fight mosters and descend levels 13:08:15 i'm quite happy though, i got minecraft today 13:08:48 i'm quite sad though, i crashed minecraft today... but i changed some things so hopefully it will be better 13:08:56 Sgeo__: it is useful for the first few levels, at least it was when they didn't have vaults 13:09:30 autoexplore is still useful for the first N floors 13:09:49 hmm 13:10:05 It seems to die to sentinals a lot 13:10:14 I'm surprised it gets to sentinels 13:10:20 maybe chess games should be played that way.. only stopping for the humans when they're not sure what to do 13:11:05 i know that that guy already suggested something like computer assistance during chess 13:11:17 This iteration got stuck due to .. hm 13:11:27 I see no path for further exploration 13:12:02 it doesn't do secret doors 13:12:03 Got jammed due to caustic gas 13:12:12 are you going to use autoplay as your let's play 13:13:12 Died to pink jellies 13:13:21 apparently yes 13:21:27 -!- asiekierka has joined. 13:24:21 itidus21, no, everyone should just play continuous chess 13:27:06 Phantom_Hoover: for the greater good i will quietly agree 13:28:49 speaking of jellies though, i would like to know what a jelly or slime is supposed to be. is it like the thing in the blob? is it a land-jellyfish? is it fungus? 13:29:10 just putting that out there 13:29:46 oh, must be about time for a what-if 13:29:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:30:01 Hello! 13:30:35 @ping 13:30:35 pong 13:30:36 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 13:30:36 hi 13:33:01 i believe the best way to introduce something is to not influence the audiences expectations at all 13:35:21 @ping 13:35:21 pong 13:36:13 like, this is a cardboard box 1ft x 1ft x 1ft. it may contain cookies, or books, or chicken bones, or old records, or fossilized tree samples, or diet coke, but really so long as it's safe, i'm only dampening the experience by talking about it at all 13:37:36 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 13:38:28 What if you open the box? 13:40:18 yes, it's infact a collection of bertrand russell's academic elbow patches 13:40:37 better than i ever could have dreamed of or hoped for 13:43:14 discalimer: i don't actually believe he necessarily had any, nor that they mean anything, nor that i have a clue what he did 13:44:41 included is an undiscovered notebook of mozart explaining his toilet humour 13:50:27 ive always wondered what was up with that 13:51:12 i can't help feeling a bit wrong by making references to things i have no association with 13:51:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:34:51 itidus21: i like your chess idea 14:35:01 computer and human playing in teams 14:35:09 have seen this talked about, mostly where the human has the final say 14:35:24 but you could also do it where the computers play except when uncertain 14:36:39 stop signs seem to be entirely optional in montenegro 14:36:50 we saw 6 cars in a row go through one without even slowing down 14:48:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:19:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:21:44 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: begone). 15:23:02 -!- ogrom has joined. 15:28:46 -!- augur has joined. 15:37:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:37:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:46 -!- augur has joined. 15:38:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:38:55 -!- augur has joined. 16:33:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:33:48 Hello! 16:37:36 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:37:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:37:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:38:36 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:38:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:38:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 16:38:42 -!- glogbot has joined. 16:38:43 -!- glogbackup has left. 16:43:37 Thanks 16:49:39 How the hell is selling DRM-protected games on Linux any less ethical than on any other operating system? 16:50:09 hi 16:50:36 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:59 Oh wait, the thing I'm complaining about isn't a thing 16:50:59 That's good 16:51:25 good to hear 16:53:10 ironically it's probably more ethical to sell DRM-protected games on Linux than any other OS 16:53:53 more or equally 16:54:05 eg FreeBSD, Hurd 16:54:18 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 16:55:51 i think using DRM is ethical, but makes your product significantly less valuable 16:55:58 i also think publishing tools to break DRM is ethical 16:56:20 I don't really have a stance on the ethics of DRM 16:56:25 in the USA there is a legal asymmetry here 16:56:27 which needs to go away 16:56:39 DRM that negatively affects other parts of your system is unethical 16:56:46 though i think we've moved on to other things to nerd-rage at 16:56:50 yeah 16:56:50 DRM that installs without permission is unethical 16:56:54 invasive rootkit DRM is not ok 16:57:23 hmmm 16:57:44 Taneb: is there DRM that doesn't negatively affect your system? 16:57:47 the question i guess is whether linux would become corrupted by DRM 16:58:06 nortti, parts of your system that are used when not playing the game? I dunno, probably not 16:58:28 Not just games, other stuff too, but I think games is the context where DRM comes up the most 16:59:25 well, how does one prevent oneself being a pirate when one compiles ones own OS 16:59:35 lol 16:59:38 wow 16:59:42 and should one 16:59:57 itidus21, if it's your own OS, it's not piracy 17:00:10 Going on your own boat isn't being a pirate 17:00:17 Neither is taking your money off it 17:00:41 it's quite possible to violate copyright on GPL software 17:00:53 probably not so easy to do this with "personal use" only 17:01:29 anyway copyright law is just as essential to free software as it is to proprietary commercial software 17:01:33 so im starting to go back on my last statement 17:01:35 at least the GPL school of free software 17:01:47 itidus21: doesn't that happen every time you make a statement? 17:01:55 I'm not a huge fan of GPL 17:01:57 you could save us all some time by going back pre-emptively 17:02:04 yeah. for WTFPL/CC0/PD school it wouldn't matter 17:02:29 for BSD/MIT it would not matter much, but perhaps people still want attribution 17:02:38 yeah 17:02:42 kmc: only because i make my statements around phds, haskell coders and mathematicians 17:02:43 MIT and CC0 are the two I use the most 17:02:51 here i'm ignoring the fairly separate issue of warranty / liability 17:02:55 itidus21: no 17:03:07 I use WTFPL or the license original software used 17:03:09 you say things which any reasonable person would judge to be nonsense 17:03:22 kmc, I find a bit of itidusrant on occasion quite therapeutic 17:03:38 +(if I'm developing software project someone else started) 17:03:38 yeah i'm happy itidus21 is here 17:03:41 first you have to know GPL exists before you can know i am talking nonsense about it 17:03:44 don't get me wrong :) 17:04:35 if there were no copyright law, then corporations could use currently-GPL software in proprietary products, but their employees could also legally publish that proprietary source code 17:04:48 however they'd still be fired for doing so, and maybe sued for breach of contract 17:04:48 ok.... yes it does happen every time 17:05:10 kmc, are you a fan of your local Pirate Party? 17:05:17 no strong opinion 17:05:39 actually I think currently the GPL benefits large companies over small ones 17:05:45 Last election, they were the only party who I read their manifesto and agreed with everything. 17:06:01 Which isn't saying much, as the only other manifesto I read was the BNP's 17:06:02 large companies can develop everything in-house and make money with software they never publish in any form 17:06:07 Taneb: where do you live? 17:06:31 Every bit I say goes through a box that's busy violating copyright on GPL software by using it in a way not allowed by the license. 17:06:33 in that case they can use GPL software however they like (though many are still deathly afraid of it) 17:07:39 nortti, UK 17:07:46 ok 17:07:50 BNP is the extreme right-wing pary 17:07:54 *+t 17:08:10 BNP is the Basic Nultilingual Plane. 17:08:21 I am member of piraattinuoret which is yout organization of pirate party of finland 17:08:23 also the Bacchus Naur Party 17:08:40 ^Baccus 17:08:53 black panther party with NP oracle 17:08:55 Backus. 17:09:10 @ping 17:09:10 pong 17:09:15 Taneb: i have heard that BNP is actually in favor of liberal social policies like increased funding for education 17:09:19 in between all the racism 17:09:30 you know, increased funding for educating white british people 17:09:49 Ooh, that ping is not good 17:09:52 my british friend speculates that this is because people in the BNP don't agree on anything other than the racism, and whoever happened to draft their platform decided this bit sounds good 17:09:53 Bacchus-Naur Form is what you get when you try to do a BNF grammar but you're really really drunk. 17:09:58 ++ 17:10:28 nortti, WITHIN THE SAME TOWN AS ELLIOTT! 17:10:47 so you are hexam 17:10:53 *live in 17:10:56 I'm all the hexham 17:11:15 so elliott lives in Taneb? 17:11:44 Yeah. 17:11:55 As do just less than 12000 other people 17:11:59 isn't that kinda strange 17:12:04 A bit 17:13:13 its only strange to me because i had never heard of hexham before 17:13:40 apparently hexham is the #2 location for esoteric programming 17:13:45 It still sounds like cursed pork to me. 17:14:14 kmc, by density, #1 if you only count places with >1 person 17:14:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:14:59 Is there a slang verb "hexhamming", and if so, what does it mean? 17:15:07 No 17:15:16 kmc: which is the #1 locatin? 17:15:17 A shame. "I'm really hexhamming it up tonight" sounds very dynamic. 17:15:19 *what 17:15:28 finland 17:15:49 that is a whole country 17:15:57 Specifically Helsinki, iirc 17:16:02 ok 17:16:06 the trouble of it is that most artificial constraints in real life are created by police.. eg. your car can go over the speed limit... a person can leave a store without paying for something 17:16:12 fizzie, make that a thing 17:16:24 A THING IN A PLACE WHERE BARELY ANYONE HAS HEARD OF HEXHAM 17:16:27 but... if you have police regularly patrolling your pc.. then you lose your privacy 17:16:51 if only there were some legal doctrine regarding limits of what police can do on private property 17:17:13 but if you don't have police regularly patrolling your pc, then you would never get caught doing something outside of the artificial constraints 17:17:40 Helsinki (or the "Greater Helsinki" region, more appropriately) is probably esoteric-important only by virtue of having something like 25% of all Finns in it. 17:17:53 Things like oklopol come from different cities. 17:17:57 I believe Hexham has been used as a euphemism for Hell and the middle of nowhere in parts of southern Scotland 17:18:01 so my naive understanding is that the pc sort of polices itself, some of the time 17:18:16 how many here live in Helsinki? 17:18:23 About 4, I think? 17:18:57 It depends on whether you're counting the neighbour towns, like is sometimes done. 17:19:04 so does that make Helsinki the esolang capital of the world-? 17:19:07 -- 17:19:21 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:19:23 I'm technically from Espoo, for example. 17:20:21 I'm technically from Newcastle, my birth certificate says Yorkshire, and I've lived in Melbourne 17:20:32 But I live in Hexham 17:21:16 Yes, I suppose I'm "from" Helsinki in the born-in sense. But currently-living-in Espoo. 17:21:27 I have a vague feeling elliott lives just outside, but this is only based on the one sighting I have heard of of elliott, which occurred at the latest in 2004 17:21:31 I seem to recall Deewiant lives in Helsinki proper. 17:21:41 That is, just outside Hexham, not just outside me 17:21:43 And atehwa probably somewhere around here too. 17:21:49 (It's nickping time.) 17:22:02 Oh, and ineiros nowadays. 17:22:05 What the hell is a nick 17:22:18 I suppose you could say fungot lives here too. 17:22:19 And how does one "ping" one 17:22:20 fizzie: after this proceeding, i say, god bless the land, or the lives of your officers. you must ride at the fnord. 17:22:29 I think you mean "nitpicking" 17:22:46 Nicks are the names before the comments, and you "ping" one by mentioning it in the text. 17:23:04 Oh, that makes sense 17:23:19 Although you are nitpicking 17:23:40 Taneb: a nick is a set of symbols, used to identify a chatter which can be embedded within a post 17:24:28 I think I've just broken my headphones 17:24:52 @ping 17:24:52 theres no great need for nicks to be in roman characters except that they're easier to type 17:24:53 pong 17:25:13 Nah, the Youtube video just started buffering as I turned the volume right up 17:25:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:25:43 the channel could consist of entirely brainfuck nicks 17:25:58 -!- augur has joined. 17:26:03 Or Cyrillic 17:26:06 except it would be difficult in many ways, and possibly not allowed as nics 17:26:59 * >[-]+ :Erroneous Nickname 17:27:35 @ping 17:27:35 pong 17:28:47 I think that []{}\|-_ are legal but otherwise it must be alphanumeric 17:29:12 -!- Taneb has changed nick to [-]. 17:29:18 -!- [-] has changed nick to Taneb. 17:29:27 nortti: ` and ^ too. 17:29:33 [-] is registered 17:30:04 nickname = ( letter / special )*8 ( letter / digit / special / "-" ) special = %x5B-60 / %x7B-7D ; [ ] \ ` _ ^ { | } 17:30:15 (From the RFC; there might be network-specific rules, of course.) 17:30:21 -!- nortti has changed nick to []{}\|-_`^. 17:30:24 <[]{}\|-_`^> :D 17:31:05 Quick, register it 17:31:14 some of t he symbols are considered upper case versions of others 17:31:23 kmc: Not everywhere any more. 17:31:35 Freenode has ASCII-specified uppercasings, for example, IIRC. 17:31:40 i bet the irc protocol forbids bytes above 0x7E in nicks 17:31:55 (One of the numerics at connection time specifies case mapping.) 17:31:56 which means you could not use UTF-8 for non-ascii nicks 17:32:03 obviously we should switch to UTF-7 17:32:10 <[]{}\|-_`^> hmm 17:32:16 <[]{}\|-_`^> no. base64 17:32:19 /nick +Ji0 17:32:25 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to struct{int_a[5]_. 17:32:31 hm no 17:32:32 {}|^ would be the lowercase of []\~, and still are in e.g. IRCnet, I think. 17:32:39 utf-7 is shorter and still coincides with ASCII in some places 17:33:08 <[]{}\|-_`^> foo 17:33:10 <[]{}\|-_`^> ok 17:33:20 <[]{}\|-_`^> ~ is not allowed 17:33:56 -!- struct{int_a[5]_ has changed nick to tidus21. 17:34:09 Oh, "CASEMAPPING=rfc1459" in Freenode still. I was a mistaken. 17:34:16 Maybe they've reverted their stance or something. 17:34:26 <[]{}\|-_`^> I registered this nick by the way 17:34:44 -!- []{}\|-_`^ has changed nick to nortti. 17:34:52 #quit 17:34:52 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti). 17:35:09 ä/nick []{}\|-_`^ 17:35:13 -!- nortti has changed nick to []{}\|-_`^. 17:35:56 Yeah, current Freenode does the {}|^ <=> []\~ casemap. Well. Good. 17:36:55 -!- oonbotti has joined. 17:37:35 <[]{}\|-_`^> fizzie: isn't ` lowercase ^? 17:38:26 lol 17:38:33 Nnno? [\]^ are 0x5b .. 0x5e, {|}~ are 0x7b .. 0x7e. 17:38:40 <[]{}\|-_`^> hmm 17:39:06 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:39:48 my chaos is too great for this chatroom 17:40:34 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 17:40:42 taneb innocently said "What the hell is a nick?" 17:40:45 I didn't know about ^/~, incidentally; it's not part of the same 7-bit Finnish encoding that I believe gave us the equivalency of [\] and {|}. 17:40:49 ^Taneb 17:40:50 $ echo '[\]^{|}~' | iconv -f ISO646-FI -t utf-8 17:40:50 ÄÖÅ^äöå‾ 17:42:52 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Taneb|Away. 17:43:27 And of course quite often d = ä, v = ö since so few things are 8-bit clean. (Okay, maybe not so often these days.) 17:46:53 sucks 17:50:12 -!- derdon has joined. 17:55:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:29 -!- Taneb|Away has changed nick to Taneb. 18:07:51 -!- augur has joined. 18:10:56 I think it's funny how, as a video game, the music video for Californication looks incredibly dated 18:17:31 -!- elliott has joined. 18:17:35 Taneb: I live inside Hexham. 18:18:12 elliott, I never said you didn't. I merely said I had very weak evidence suggesting you didn't. 18:18:22 But I am glad to have that confirmation 18:18:23 Well I'm suing. 18:18:33 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 18:21:21 ...did he join the channel JUST to say that? 18:22:37 -!- elliott has joined. 18:22:40 Yes. Good night. 18:22:40 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 18:23:12 How enigmatic 18:23:37 Wait, that's barely enigmatic at all 18:24:10 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 18:26:50 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:10:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:14:08 "It's advised to have a functional internet connection" "But my browser's written primarily in C!" 19:18:11 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:18:17 <[]{}\|-_`^> what? 19:19:31 <[]{}\|-_`^> #shell poweroff 19:19:40 -!- oonbotti has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:20:12 -!- monqy has joined. 19:21:48 Not very funny joke 19:22:23 Reflecting the double meaning of Functional in the context of computing 19:24:13 @ping 19:24:14 pong 19:38:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:39:22 i'd swat []{}\|-_`^ for that name, but i fear the swatter might get stuck. 19:43:23 oerjan: Do it! 19:43:46 always the enabler, shachaf 19:44:11 however, tradition requires that i ignore your request. 19:44:22 oerjan: I just want to see the swatter get stuck. 19:44:34 oerjan: Perhaps the entire nick will get stuck to the bottom of the swatter! 19:44:41 Then you'll have to do two-level swats forevermore. 19:45:18 fancy 19:45:35 We haven't had a good swattage in here for years. 19:47:02 I still remember when FireFly died due to swatting 19:47:13 * oerjan gives shachaf a roundhouse swat -----### 19:47:18 that one time 19:50:29 kmc: Should I say "poëtry"? 19:55:18 obvioüsly. 19:57:11 it was funny 19:57:36 now that was a bad joke today, http://www.yafgc.net/ 19:57:55 (warning: the rest of the comic is not always sfw) 19:58:20 * oerjan seeks for a missing i lying about 19:59:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:01:16 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to TwoFixt. 20:03:24 -!- TwoFixt has changed nick to copumpkin. 20:07:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 20:08:41 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:12:07 -!- augur has joined. 20:13:51 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:14:14 -!- augur has joined. 20:23:37 Incidentally, how would you pronounce []{}\|-_`^ if you happened to be talking to []{}\|-_`^ in some voice-oriented medium? 20:29:15 left square bracket, right square bracket, left seagull, right seagull, backslash, pipe, sheffer stroke, dash, underscore, grave accent, caret 20:29:23 these were supposed to be finnish replacement characters, no? so however those are pronounced. 20:29:29 i was intending to delete the word pipe 20:30:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:35:20 oerjan: Not all of them are. 20:36:02 oerjan: It's ÄÅäåÖö-_`^ if you interpret it that way. 20:36:12 a household name, surely 20:36:50 I guess the -_`^ part could be some sort of a suffix, since there's of course so many ÄÅäåÖös around, not everyone can be "the ÄÅäåÖö". 20:37:22 true dat 20:38:46 @ping 20:38:47 pong 20:39:12 That probably means it's time for bed... 20:39:17 Or Minecraft 20:39:24 same thing. 20:40:23 I suppose an INTERCAL user would pronounce []{}\|-_`^ as U-turn-U-turn-back-embrace-bracelet-backslat-spike-worm-flat-worm-backspark-shark. 20:42:58 and not an ampersand in sight. 20:47:05 And a normal person would pronounce it "fuck it, I can't pronounce that". 20:52:47 What's a normal person doing on IRC? 20:52:59 Define normal? 20:53:05 What’s a normal person? 20:53:22 a person with a gaussian distribution, of course 20:53:55 * ion degausses your distribution 20:54:56 Luckily I don't know what that is. 20:55:15 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:55:32 "Get out." 20:59:22 fizzie: wasn't "~" the worm, or am I getting my INTERCAL confused again? 21:02:44 And I don't understand the WP article for gaussian distribution so... 21:02:55 No idea :) 21:03:12 Basically, it's a continuous frequency distribution that's really useful 21:03:28 In that for sufficiently large samples, a LOT of things average to it 21:04:17 Goodnight 21:04:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:04:43 boily: I was looking at a HTML conversion of the manual. Maybe it got something wrong. ~ does sound more wormy. 21:05:13 He really expect me to understand "continous frequency distribution" 21:05:23 *expected 21:05:25 "In the dark, all distributions are normal." (An old adage.) 21:06:09 mroman: basically if you had any statistics course worth the name, you _would_ have heard of it. 21:06:24 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to cointegration. 21:06:34 -!- cointegration has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:06:37 I hadn't. 21:06:41 I like to call it "the hump distribution", even though I suppose most of them are quite humpy. 21:07:04 mroman: also it's the same as what's called the "bell curve" 21:07:32 Doesn't ring a bell (curve) ;) 21:07:48 I never had statistics. 21:08:59 my laptop has started making these clicking sounds again :( 21:09:40 i hadn't really noticed that it had stopped for a long time, but now it's really irritating. 21:10:08 oerjan: You could say it's kind of like a non-cyclic version of the Von Mises-Fisher distribution, I'm sure that'd be helpful. (Not that they're directly related or anything.) 21:10:54 come to think of it, it used to happen when i was solving a lot of simon tatham's puzzles before... 21:11:02 and now i've started again. 21:11:11 fizzie: surely. 21:12:20 it's just the universe's way of telling me, "you can try as hard as you want to have fun; i will do _something_ to ruin the experience." 21:13:42 Those puzzles, if I recall correctly, do involve a lot of clicking. 21:13:59 that's not where the sound is coming from. 21:14:28 No, but it's the law of similarities. As above, so below. And all that. 21:15:00 i guess it's the disk which does it with a certain kind of access pattern. 21:15:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:15:03 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 21:16:04 * oerjan hits fizzie with an emerald table (^^^^) 21:16:21 I had a disk which did a horrible clicking. Or it was even more like a whirr-clunk kind of thing. (Sadly, I don't remember what happened in the end.) 21:16:46 oh wait it's supposed to be tablet, not table. sorry about that. 21:17:12 No worries, people hit me with tables all the time. (Not really.) 21:35:23 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:37:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:43:55 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 21:59:06 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:02:10 http://xkcd.com/761/ i like to follow the hottest trends and be all hip and shit so here's an old xkcd; now isn't breadth-first search that you first date multiple people for a week one after another, then you date them the same people for two weeks, and so on, and depth-first search is where you're in a relationship until it goes bad 22:03:01 hmm okay maybe he means dating these people at the same time 22:07:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:27:40 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 22:36:41 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:50:55 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:57:57 is this where i start an argument about monogamy 22:58:52 no. you can only start a monologue. 22:59:07 * kmc rimshot 23:01:56 what's your opinion on it? 23:03:27 eh i think i will pass on this one 23:03:51 but i wanna know :( 23:04:24 i dated a polyamorist for two and a half years 23:04:37 how did that work out 23:06:10 well for the first two years it was effectively just an open relationship, which was cool. then she got a second boyfriend and my world collapsed and shit. 23:06:36 :/ 23:06:45 did you think you would be cool with it, and you turned out not to be cool with it? 23:06:46 so now i hate polyamory but am not really satisfied with a fully closed relationship. 23:07:05 i think deciding you hate polyamory is an unreasonable generalization from that 23:07:10 but understandable on an emotional level 23:07:13 i didn't understand someone could actually want multiple partners apart from sex until it was too late. 23:07:27 my girlfriend broke up with her other boyfriend and i'm extremely bummed about it 23:07:51 sounds reasonable 23:07:51 lol 23:07:58 loltidus 23:08:11 im not sure which comment is funny 23:08:16 the comment or the reply 23:08:18 i'm not a very social person, for me the point of a gf is to get to be alone with someone. 23:08:19 how come your nick changed 23:08:25 typo 23:08:27 mm 23:08:29 darn 23:08:30 that's a good way to pu tit 23:08:31 put it* 23:08:31 because being alone alone is lonely at times. 23:08:42 :| 23:08:53 -!- tidus21 has changed nick to ineedanick. 23:09:01 i don't think i recognize a difference between a significant other and a really close friend who you also have sex with 23:09:10 -!- ineedanick has changed nick to uncertain21. 23:09:13 /nick ineeddick 23:09:35 yeah theres a lot wrong with ineeda**ck 23:10:26 well if we discount the sex thing, afaiu usually the difference is you have an implicit agreement to stay together through the hard times instead of always being with the partner that is currently the most satisfying. 23:11:16 or really that's just my opinion, not what i understand to be the case 23:11:24 well i think close friends also stick together through hard times 23:11:29 i only have a few close friends though 23:11:37 friendships can fade away 23:11:44 so do relationships 23:12:20 "til death do us part" is still a finite amount of time 23:12:21 i don't think so 23:12:50 and the proper order of things is that the man dies a natural death first 23:12:59 i think crashing characterizes the ends of ideal relationships better. 23:13:15 you can't break up with a friend, nor do you have to. just don't see them. 23:13:32 i think it's not the same for "close friends" whatever i mean by that 23:13:38 it would be like breaking up 23:13:44 yeah i guess 23:14:01 they would try to contact me and i would ignore them and we'd both get really sad 23:14:07 that's a way to break up with someone 23:14:34 so why were you sad that she broke up with him? 23:14:44 lol 23:15:05 i mean was it because you felt bad for her or something more practical 23:15:11 my guess is that it's because suddenly he is burdened with her whole existence 23:15:23 instead of having adapted to sharing part of her existence 23:15:32 amazingly your ability to guess things correctly is not improved when you are talking about my personal life 23:15:47 oklopol: a lot of reasons 23:15:55 i feel sad when my friends are sad 23:15:58 i'm close with both of them 23:16:11 now i can't hang out with both of them at the same time 23:16:14 like haskell, and lambda calculus, relationships are not something i have actually used 23:16:21 also he's less friendly toward me, understandably so 23:16:49 and i feel guilty too 23:16:50 did you have like casual threesomes and shit? wait that's a bit inappropriate perhaps. 23:17:03 also i worry that she'll eventually dump me 23:17:09 what do you mean by "casual" 23:17:24 just like, normal relationship shag. 23:17:34 oklopol: yes... it was a binary tree sort of threesome, rather than a triangle 23:17:41 shut the fuck up 23:17:47 you are really getting to me 23:17:48 no i mean in my life actually 23:18:21 my friend and his gf.. when drunk 23:18:56 uncertain21: congrats 23:18:56 wat 23:19:04 are you people talking about relationships 23:19:13 oklopol: we had threesomes, i don't know what's "casual" about it as she was in a long term relationship with both of us 23:19:16 its about the closest i get to a sex life 23:19:27 there were other threesomes as well 23:19:32 with other third parties 23:19:45 a number of people had sex in various configurations and settings 23:19:56 not including the back of a volkswagon 23:20:29 kmc: okay casual is perhaps a bad term for describing relationship sex, given that it basically means the opposit. 23:20:30 re 23:20:32 e 23:20:32 oh dear shit uncertain21 is iti oh dear 23:20:52 but i find it more casual than non-relationship sex. 23:21:09 Phantom_Hoover: just force your memory to block it out 23:21:23 oklopol: hmm, it's casual in another way, yes 23:21:31 a nice way 23:21:32 iti is not a virgin? 23:23:00 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:23:14 so if your gf has multiple boyfriends, you aren't afraid that you're inferior to them and will lose her? 23:24:16 well ideally no 23:24:27 if your friend has other friends, do you worry similarly 23:24:35 i mean with monogamy, you don't have this problem, they can be sex-machines made of money and sexiness and she can't touch them. well unless you break up but the barrier is bigger, and she can't sample beforehand. 23:24:48 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:24:55 people like having multiple friends because they get complimentary things out of each relationship 23:24:59 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 23:25:17 and if your friends get along with each other as well, the whole is better than the sum of the parts 23:25:24 -!- azaq23 has joined. 23:25:26 i don't see why "relationships" should be different 23:25:42 oklopol: i don't count casual threesomes i'm involved in as real sex :P 23:25:43 that said if you ask "do you worry that $x" to me, the answer is always "yes" 23:25:47 i worry about everything all the time 23:25:49 so yes 23:25:57 it's just.. worse than nothing really 23:26:16 i would never impose a rule that my girlfriend can't sleep with other people at all 23:26:19 that is terrible 23:26:27 i want her to be happy 23:26:39 sleeping with other people from time to time is something which makes her happy 23:26:52 and conversely for me 23:27:00 i don't worry about my friends, but i'm not sure i'm really bffs with anyone. 23:27:03 Now I get what gaussian distribution is. 23:27:05 i mean that's just gay. 23:27:09 -_- 23:27:10 It's what xkcds random button is missing. 23:27:21 It produces 23 all the time. 23:27:55 -!- uncertain21 has changed nick to itidus21. 23:27:58 kmc, wait did you just equate friendships to romantic relationships. 23:28:06 (that said, yes, i'm bisexual.) 23:28:20 Phantom_Hoover: yes 23:28:36 That's... quite a leap. 23:28:45 i don't understand the difference anyway 23:28:56 and i've been in several of what you'd probably call romantic relationships 23:29:00 including currently for several years 23:29:27 What about hormones and shit? 23:29:34 what... about them? 23:29:39 i don't really know how to respond to that statement 23:30:14 `pastlog I'm fairly sure there's a neurochemical difference between the two. 23:30:36 there are people i'd like to have sex with but not be friends with, and vice versa 23:30:48 No output. 23:30:51 `pastlog i dunno if i'm doing this wrong 23:31:03 i have friends who i would never have sex with but who give me the warm fuzzy "relationship" feeling 23:31:07 2012-06-28.txt:06:47:27: itidus21: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbnjusltDHk 23:31:20 anyway there are all sorts of neurochemical phenomena which i have no conscious access to 23:31:25 Phantom_Hoover: that link can explain hormones and shit 23:31:30 clearly 23:32:08 i am saying that i don't understand the difference, not that there isn't one 23:32:12 maybe eventually i will understand the difference 23:32:15 OTOH the idea of romantic and sexual feelings being separate is hardly an unconventional one. 23:32:27 but i have got this far in life without doing so, and not for lack of close friends or sex partners 23:33:04 i see the difference between friendship and relationship mostly as a contractual one 23:33:24 wait i guess i said that already 23:33:35 i think there's an implicit contract in any close friendship, whether 'romantic' or not 23:33:44 maybe this means i have 'romantic' non-sexual close frienships 23:33:45 whatever 23:33:47 terminology sucks 23:34:35 the bit about friendships can fade and relationships can't is interesting, though 23:34:38 i wil think about that more 23:34:41 i don't think i have an implicit contract with any of my friends 23:34:57 then again i don't have friends i don't just occasionally completely forget about for months. 23:35:24 i have a few friends who i talk to practically every day 23:35:43 constantly throughout the day i will see or do something and want to tell them about it 23:35:46 on the other hand when i then randomly call them i expect nothing to have changed so i'm probably wrong about this. 23:35:47 so i'm thinking about them all the time 23:35:52 i don't have anyone outside of my family that i talk to offline 23:36:33 except people who i am paying for their time, or people who the government is paying for their time :P 23:36:37 itidus21: no talking during the threesomes? sorry, i can't get over this, it's so outside character. 23:36:43 wait what about the one with whom you had the threesome? 23:36:48 oh that.... 23:36:52 or was he a family member? 23:36:55 :D 23:37:01 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 23:37:14 ok.. i should add the constraint of for years 23:37:17 "except people who i am paying for their time" 23:37:32 * oerjan is starting to suspect that the clicking from his laptop is because for the first time in months it spends several seconds in a row _not_ doing disk I/O, so it actually gets parked... so something has stopped hogging the disk and it should be a _good_ thing. but damn that sound is irritating. 23:37:33 friend whores 23:37:36 yes :D 23:37:51 watch out for FTDs 23:37:57 aka therapist 23:38:03 (sorry for not joining the sex talk) 23:38:06 paying for their time = doctors, people selling food 23:38:06 they're highly trained though 23:38:07 :P 23:38:14 like those $1,000/hr prostitutes 23:38:39 hehee FTDs 23:38:42 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if you could hire one of those prostitutes for 3.6 seconds. 23:38:50 oerjan: please do 23:38:54 1 prostitute.. she just didn't appeal to my twisted needs 23:39:04 which are? 23:39:06 itidus has threesomes regularly, your turn to surprise us 23:39:49 no no.. there was only 2 .. and threesome only in a binary tree topology 23:39:55 lol 23:40:06 you mean you didn't have sex with the guy? 23:40:09 right 23:40:22 really, i would've never guessed 23:40:43 some things about me are best left unexplained 23:40:43 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:40:46 usually when two guys and a girl have a threesome, the guys can't stop kissing each other 23:41:46 you should all trust oklopol on this. 23:41:52 can't tell if oklopol sarcastic or not 23:41:59 pretty accurate in my experience 23:42:05 :P 23:42:15 oh you. 23:42:22 can't tell if oklopol and kmc or both sarcastic or not 23:42:26 well i mean you eventually stop kissing 23:42:32 to do other things with your mouths 23:42:33 *are 23:42:40 i have some mental issues to work through before i can enjoy sex 23:42:54 :/ 23:43:06 * kmc had some as well 23:44:25 just remember it's not gay unless the balls touch 23:44:48 oerjan: i was being sarcastic, kmc wasn't 23:44:51 what if the penises touch 23:44:54 unless the balls touch what? 23:45:07 oklopol: OKAY 23:45:20 i was not being sarcastic until the "balls touch" statement 23:45:30 that was clear 23:45:34 ball touching is neither necessary nor sufficient for gayness 23:46:13 yeah... it's probably best if i don't explain any more 23:46:40 no it's not 23:46:46 we won't judge 23:47:23 Phantom_Hoover: if penises touch, you're gay. 23:47:24 ive told other chatrooms every last detail about anything related to sex.. it's really not interesting 23:47:31 super gay. 23:47:48 can you paste the log? 23:47:54 lol 23:47:55 no 23:48:11 then why the long teaser 23:48:13 itidus21, I dunno, a lot of people find sex very interesting. 23:49:39 * oerjan tries disabling jqs as that seemed to run every few seconds. 23:49:40 women always keep their distance from me 23:49:44 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:49:50 ah, java quick starter 23:49:51 even prostitutes? 23:50:09 That's where it went wrong. 23:50:19 Getting close to iti was just too far. 23:50:27 Too twisted. 23:50:44 itidus21: yep. i think it might be keeping the disk working unnecessarily, but not continuously, causing constant parking (i noticed the clicks seemed to happen a few seconds after jqs wakes up) 23:51:02 they still happen now, but not as frequently 23:52:17 shiit 23:52:50 ok to end the suspense 23:53:55 my first time was with this guys sister.. except since she acted like she was missing a few cards in her deck, it didn't go all the way 23:54:08 how far did it go and what age? 23:54:11 but the next day she said it did.. and started up about how i better not make her pregnant 23:54:21 oh 23:54:33 your penis didn't go all the way i guess 23:54:40 it was at this point i realized my memory isn't very good 23:55:23 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:31 i don't think i got it in on my first time. such a complicated process :D 23:56:06 first step was accidently trying to finger her urethra, until she explained my error 23:56:15 hehe :D 23:56:37 did you hear the story about the woman who used the urethra as a vagina 23:57:29 but yeah usually that's more like third date stuff so it's understandable if she got mad 23:57:58 also.. there was an awful squeaking noise when our bodies touched, like an armpit raspberry thing 23:58:48 and you were twelve so that was really bad? 23:58:51 argh 23:58:53 nah not 12 23:59:53 poor Phantom_Hoover