00:00:16 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:54 -!- segorev has joined. 00:09:02 yo brothers 00:09:08 is anybody here? 00:09:14 alarm 00:10:25 all sleep ? 00:10:43 i think what only in russian night now 00:10:48 *russia 00:11:19 -!- david_werecat has joined. 00:11:26 david_werecat, hi 00:11:40 david_werecat, you hacker? 00:11:56 Hello, and not really. 00:12:27 hm.. it bad 00:19:15 -!- segorev has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:19:24 -!- segorev has joined. 00:27:43 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:53:33 omg russian Sgeo!!!!!!! 00:55:11 He could use some more patience… 01:08:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:08:24 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:23:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:23:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:27:33 if he's a doctor, he could use some patients? 01:27:45 blah blah pay shuns 01:31:01 -!- MDude has joined. 01:36:42 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:36:59 -!- MDude has joined. 02:27:30 -!- monqy has joined. 02:30:10 hi, monqy 02:30:26 russian monqy? 02:31:04 what's russian monqy 02:32:29 обезьяна with some phonetic changes? 02:32:55 > cycle "monqy inside another " 02:32:56 "monqy inside another monqy inside another monqy inside another monqy insid... 02:34:00 @messages? 02:34:00 monqy: You have 20 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 02:34:33 in soviet russia, monqy massages you 02:34:44 an in soviet russia joke 02:34:45 very funny shachaf 02:34:49 where do you possibly get the material 02:34:50 how can i learn 02:35:11 elliott: it's very complicated 02:35:48 you must be at least 23 dyalmunkts tall to make soviet russia jokes 02:36:12 23 dyalmunkts = 1 year 02:38:06 Oh man, I could not stop laughing when I wrote “vive le plarimasthugl”, and there it is again X-D 02:41:56 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:44:18 Gregor: what does it mean? 02:44:37 olsner: It was a word that `words thought looked French. 02:48:22 it seems to have a plarimasthugl idea of french 02:49:14 -!- david_werecat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:49:21 -!- david_werecat has joined. 02:52:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:54:38 -!- david_werecat has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:01:41 -!- ogrom has joined. 03:12:33 -!- ais523 has quit. 03:17:53 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: begone). 03:19:02 http://codu.org/fiction/LensCap.html I wrote a short story. 03:19:33 it does not mention plarimasthugl 03:19:42 Tragically, no. 03:34:26 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 03:36:04 -!- MDude has changed nick to Mdoze. 03:36:09 -!- Mdoze has changed nick to MDoze. 03:44:12 Gregor: it reminds me of this: http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1074 03:48:51 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:48:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:51:28 >_> 03:51:30 <_< 03:51:32 Ohhhhhhh kay. 03:56:54 Phantom_Hoover.... dangit 03:57:01 I want to ask him when Red Dwarf starts to suck 03:58:15 You'll know. 04:07:08 pikhq_: http://codu.org/fiction/LensCap.html I wrote a short story. 04:08:03 Gregor: K. But first, ponies. 04:08:21 OK, good, you've got your priorities straight. 04:08:43 * pikhq_ is IRCing while watching, so. 04:12:33 pikhq_: Also, don't forget to put Ponies in your Interwebs ( http://websplat.bitbucket.org/ ) 04:12:48 Where'd the extra Kryten head come from? 04:23:35 *cough* 04:23:44 ? 04:23:44 By your powers combined I am Captain Planet. Again. 04:24:58 Are you trying to tell me something? 04:25:05 Nah, more Gregor 04:25:20 Hey, #esoteric! 04:25:29 pikhq_: Why, are you up to the Season 2 opening or something? 04:25:33 Gregor: Yes. 04:25:38 Heh 04:25:39 Can you make a language that can evaluate algorithms as decribed in this? http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5060147.PN.&OS=PN/5060147&RS=PN/5060147 04:25:39 Gregor: Specifically, just finished. 04:27:49 pikhq_: Just wait for the S2 finale ;) 04:31:57 o.O I know a girl with a name in that story 04:32:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 04:32:39 -!- nvt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:37:14 Sgeo__: ? 04:37:39 Gregor, . 04:43:31 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:51:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:53:57 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:54:15 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:54:25 does websplat ponies now? 04:54:46 Yup. 04:54:56 hrray! 04:55:53 -!- aloril has joined. 04:58:19 how come dead with two hearts left? 04:58:45 If you fall off the bottom of the screen, you die automatically. 04:58:49 Otherwise, shouldn't happen. 05:00:07 who did graphix? 05:00:21 I stole them from Adventure Ponies, so Hasbro. 05:00:47 what does applejack's tree accomplish 05:00:56 You can climb it. 05:01:52 pinkie appears to be overpowered 05:02:37 They're not intended to be balanced, it's one-player. 05:03:11 but you should get more points for winning with the weaker ponies 05:03:25 also, ponyswitcher button to change at any time 05:03:28 and reset button 05:03:59 Reset is nigh-on impossible, though for stupid reasons. Ponyswitching just isn't built into the system. 05:04:51 Also, the points don't matter ;) 05:05:16 Anyway, I now intend to make a ponified web based version of Worms, which will be multiplayer and balanced. Need time and graphical assets. 05:05:21 never mind the ponies game 05:05:28 make a web page version of Worms 05:05:33 yes 05:05:57 Well, it has to not JUST be Worms. 05:06:04 i think yo me and wryen are thinking identically 05:06:15 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:06:15 i wrote that message before seeingyour message about Worms 05:06:25 afterwryen said antigravity pony was like worms 05:07:04 Is wryen… a person? 05:07:11 yes 05:07:21 Ah. 05:07:23 currently playing websplat with asscannon pony 05:07:48 I once played a color GameBoy game which is like breakout, but has both horizontal and vertical paddles, and color graphics, sound effects, all in only 1K ROM. The instructions say it even has a hidden movie. 05:08:02 never mind antigrav pony 05:08:09 asscannon pony is the most powerful 05:08:15 Ohhhhhhh kay, so I'm goin' to sleep, but yeah, Worms at some point X-D 05:08:42 where's the reddit thread for this 05:09:10 The smallest (and only) GameBoy game I made is 3K, but it is monochrome and has no sound effects, and has 256 levels in total so most of the ROM space is taken up by the level data. 05:09:21 quintopia: http://www.reddit.com/r/mylittlepony/comments/wrz8a/ponies_in_your_interwebs_ponies_on_any_web_page/ 05:09:26 (It is a clone of StroQ but not ll the same levels) 05:15:55 pikhq, I have to know if this is a permanent cast change 05:16:34 -!- nvt has joined. 05:17:32 Sgeo__: ? 05:17:53 In season 7 05:18:02 Maybe I should just watch the next episode 05:19:28 I think you're *past* where it sucks 05:20:13 How would you do if you are the President of United States? (even if you do not live in United States) 05:20:48 First thing I would do is try to figure out why this happen, especially since I am Canadian. 05:20:56 zzo38: Poorly. I have no tolerance for bullshit. 05:26:13 What happened to the laugh track? 05:32:29 Do you think the Gregorian calendar is difficult to learn, has no sync with the moon, days of week do not stay in sync with days of the month, and does not accurately track the equinoxes and solstices? I think at least the last three is correct, although the third (about days of week) I think is not important and is perhaps better the way it is anyways. 05:43:11 Personally, I feel we should change the Earth's orbit so we can have decimal time. 05:44:19 I say we shouldn't mix up the solar system like that. 05:44:42 Oh, if we're going to mix up the *solar system* I have a much better idea. 05:44:55 Well, I guess it's Freeman Dyson's idea. 05:45:23 This is what I would do if being President of United States: ... 05:45:38 First I would wonder what happened and how I got there especially since I am Canadian. I would probably just make my own breakfast. I would ensure my own personal money is kept separate from the government's money. I would try to abolish the DMCA and overturn some court cases. I would try to abolish the patent office. ... 05:45:46 I would try to make more so the government is not so secret from others. I would try to make it illegal to bribe the government. I would ask people to vote whether they want me as President of the United States, and what policies they want, so that we can have proper democracy. 05:45:47 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:37 pikhq: Freeman Dyson's idea to do what, specifically? 05:48:53 zzo38: Dyson sphere. 05:49:49 OK, I looked it up on Wikipedia. 06:04:49 pikhq, why would you need to change the orbit to have decimal time? 06:05:05 Sgeo__: So you could have a round number of days in a solar year! 06:05:07 I was thinking maybe so you'd have some units equal in old and new time, but I don't quite see how it would work 06:05:07 Oh 06:05:30 I thought you meant as in unit x is 10 unit y etc 06:05:45 Oh, yeah, non-integer days in a year would still break that 06:07:35 I do not think it is much of a problem. You can still use units such as dekaseconds and kiloseconds and so on if you like to do so. To track moon, solstices, and equinoxes, you can use a horoscope (you can also view the moon with a telescope, although you would use an ephemeris if you wanted to calculate ahead of time). 06:07:41 But you still shouldn't mix up the solar system. 06:08:14 And at least we do now have Gregorian calendar instead of the older Julian calendar; John Dee also wanted to have the Gregorian calendar despite hating the Pope. 06:12:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:45 -!- augur has joined. 06:12:53 You can also use UNIX timestamps or Julian day numbers. 06:14:31 Or use Planck times...... 06:15:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Finally! I proved the Twin Prime conjecture! The proof is *dies suddenly*). 06:19:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:26:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:40:01 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:46:24 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:49:35 kmc: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2004/12/15/313250.aspx 06:49:48 @localtime kmc 06:49:49 Local time for kmc is Wed Jul 25 02:50:37 2012 06:49:51 Oh, I guess that's wrong. 07:15:26 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:16:05 -!- Jafet has joined. 07:27:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:27:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 07:33:46 @localtime mroman 07:33:49 Local time for mroman is Wed Jul 25 09:33:46 2012 07:34:27 @localtime lambdabot 07:34:28 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 07:34:33 Yes! 07:39:16 lambdabot: Your local time should obviously be that Swatch Internet Time. 07:39:20 The "beat time". 07:40:15 It's now @361 .beats, I believe. 07:41:03 It's Internet because it's got @s and .s in it. 07:43:55 If I have (in C++) a templated function which turns into the exact same code for two different instantiations, should I expect g++ to combine the generated code for them? 07:45:34 I wouldn't expect that, but I guess miracles can always happen. 07:47:05 shachaf: gcc doesn't even merge identical jump tables. 07:47:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:48:01 Hello 07:48:01 AnotherTest: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 07:48:34 Microsoft's compiler apparently does it. :-( 07:49:09 Spam quote of the day: "You must be very discrete in the area of confidentiality". 07:49:12 mroman: I'll put it online somewhere later today ;) 07:49:30 (github probably) 07:53:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:57:38 yeah continuous confidentiality just won't do 07:58:32 The Ministry of Silly Walks approves. http://gizmodo.com/5928737/this-must-be-the-stupidest-way-to-fire-one-of-the-worlds-deadliest-cannons 07:59:20 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:59:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:07:10 AnotherTest: http://eso.mroman.ch/cgi/burlesque.cgi?q={qu+in+e.} 08:07:16 Now with fancy highlighting :) 08:10:15 :) 08:10:26 http://eso.mroman.ch/cgi/burlesque.cgi?q={%27c+5.6+7+%22HELLO%22} 08:16:14 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:17:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:19:57 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:19:58 Hello 08:30:57 :k Const 08:30:58 * -> * -> * 08:31:03 :k (:<) 08:31:04 Not in scope: type constructor or class `:<' 08:31:09 :k Cofree 08:31:10 Not in scope: type constructor or class `Cofree' 08:31:14 :< 08:38:24 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:39:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:48:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:48:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:55:08 :) 08:55:26 :D (:o) 08:55:33 :? 08:57:37 :t (:<) 08:57:38 Not in scope: data constructor `:<' 08:57:42 @hayoo (:<) 08:57:42 Unknown command, try @list 08:58:01 @hoogle (:<) 08:58:01 Data.Sequence (:<) :: a -> Seq a -> ViewL a 08:58:23 Not the :< I am looking for 08:58:50 that's what they all say 08:59:05 @hackage free 08:59:05 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/free 08:59:19 Control.Comonad.Free 08:59:22 *Cofree 08:59:34 I was wondering if lambdabot had it 09:02:25 Heh. 09:02:44 The cookbook is finished :) 09:02:49 yay! 09:02:51 but not finnished this time. 09:05:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 09:06:08 http://mroman.ch/burlesque/cookbook/ 09:06:35 Warning: Content could be satiric. 09:07:18 or whatever the right englisch word for that is. 09:07:28 mroman: Typo: "stock" instead of "stack" 09:07:59 Oops :D. Thanks. 09:09:56 mroman: typo "list of value" should probably be "list of values" (in Understanding Blocks) 09:10:03 -!- elliott has joined. 09:10:08 fizzie: is "Mikee" a finnish first name 09:10:11 oklopol: you may also answer 09:10:42 elliott: Not as far as I know. 09:10:52 thank you 09:10:55 however i did not solicit your response 09:10:58 Deewiant, you are neither fizzie nor oklopol! 09:11:13 however i will accept it anyway 09:11:19 I was just making a comment, it was not intended as a replacement for fizzie/oklopol 09:11:43 Deewiant: the alleged Mikee points me to http://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Mikee 09:12:03 The statistics are descriptive 09:12:06 And I must go now 09:12:08 --> 09:12:48 Deewiant: he claims it is short for mikael 09:13:14 there is also a type in "compares pops". Fixed that. 09:13:38 *typo 09:13:44 I make typos in spelling typo :( 09:13:57 The typo in the typo would make a great movie title. 09:14:53 mroman: what other features do you plan on adding? 09:17:52 More builtins 09:17:57 especially string manipulation 09:18:01 and golfing stuff :) 09:18:28 Then I'll try to get my language accepted for golf.shinh.org :) 09:20:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:21:04 I'm not planning on adding actual features 09:21:20 That's the mistake I did with Stlang. 09:21:31 It has useless features like OOP and stuff ;) 09:21:42 well, useless. Depends of course. 09:21:53 But it made the language bloat :) 09:22:35 Some colleagues of me dared me to add OOP in stlang :D 09:25:20 http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/66953/golfscript-in-codegolf-on-so-cheating-or-not :D:D:D 09:25:32 "I think, that Golfscript is unuseful, and it's not a language at all." 09:25:43 "It's a kind of Ruby library (proof - http://www.golfscript.com/golfscript/golfscript.rb)," 09:25:48 OMG, HE proof! 09:26:27 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 09:26:50 Oh no, I'm too late. 09:26:59 Elliott hates me :( 09:27:08 Anyway, you can search for Finnish given-name statistics at http://verkkopalvelu.vrk.fi/Nimipalvelu/default.asp?L=3 09:27:54 I haven't heard of anyone called Mikee, though there are very many Mikas and Mikaels. 09:28:42 Also some Miikas and Miikkas. 09:29:30 -!- elliott has joined. 09:29:39 fizzie: I hear it was short for Mikael. 09:29:43 Also I don't hate people. 09:29:46 I'm sure some Mikael could have a nickname "Mikee", even though it sounds pretty weird. 09:30:09 Nobody has it as an official name according to the gummint, though. 09:30:27 I think while I'm waiting to get my license renewed today, I'll finish up my new esolang interpreter. 09:30:31 and write up a spec. 09:30:32 "Mikke" is a name that exists, also. 09:30:43 or maybe read a book. 09:30:45 I don't know. 09:30:58 About 360s Mikkes listed in the Registry. 09:31:08 Or maybe it's the System. 09:31:13 The Population Information System. 09:31:27 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:33:02 I may or may not have taken the concept of dupdog and modified it to the point that it's turing complete, without feeling really cheap. 09:36:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:36:16 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:37:05 -!- quintopia has joined. 09:49:13 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 09:49:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:00:37 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:07:25 ya hahahahah 10:07:37 Hello 10:07:58 <-- possibly over excited about dupdog? 10:10:52 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:21:34 -!- monqy has joined. 10:23:53 Okay, expanding on what I have previously written 10:24:16 Many monads can be made using the base monad Foo a b c = Foo (a -> b) 10:24:27 Const a = Foo () a 10:24:34 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:24:37 Empty = Foo () () 10:24:43 (Foo needs a better name) 10:25:13 (Actually, it's stupid) 10:31:33 Taneb, what is Foo? 10:31:47 newtype Foo a b c = Foo (a -> b) 10:31:55 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:43:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:44:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 10:51:07 i think i like math a little bit. it's always pleasant to see how things can be more fully understood by trying to approach them more mathematically 10:54:58 eh.. 10:55:17 but now i will say the part that will get people fuming 10:55:45 so i often wonder what is it which someone like gauss does so well exactly 10:56:34 his brains I think 10:56:46 i know it's not something you can acquire at a gym, and it's something which money will only slightly help until a threshhold 10:57:09 Taneb: Isn't that the definition of Void? 10:57:27 the definition of Void is "data Void", I think 10:57:51 Hm no @() () 10:58:01 just for the sake of consistency, i mean that after some arbitrary figure such as $500,000 then any more money won't really aid in a persons education 10:58:04 Taneb: And it's data Void = Void Void 10:58:08 no it's not 10:58:15 That defeats the point of Void 10:58:18 it's "newtype Void = Void Void" 10:58:18 or Void !Void 10:58:25 which is equivalent to "data Void" in haskell 2010 10:58:30 but the latter is not possible in haskell 98 10:58:59 The point of Void is it has zero possible values. 10:59:01 and it's not simply a matter of having a powerful memory, or is it? exactly how far one can get on the strength of memory alone is unclear to me 10:59:09 Foo () () a has one possible value 10:59:12 Foo id 10:59:32 but i personally don't believe that memory, no matter how powerful can make you gauss 11:02:15 itidus21: maybe it's just genetics? However, I'm not sure whether his brains have a different physical structure. 11:02:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:04:10 AnotherTest: Well, there's the fact that they work with positrons... 11:04:30 Yes, but is that the reason? 11:04:42 It's a different physical structure, at least. 11:04:48 ititdus21: I don't think the speed at which you can remember / calculate things is that important. 11:05:03 (At least according to the so-called "Positronic Gauss" theory.) 11:05:17 I think it's the speed at which you can connect to things with each other. 11:05:50 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 11:06:05 no idea why asimov decided that the brains would have to be Positronic too 11:06:40 Picnic time, bye 11:06:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:06:58 uh, ask elliott 11:07:24 AnotherTest: I think officially because it sounded more sci-fi. (At least his intro to one of the short story collections said as much.) 11:08:54 mroman: # something (\d+) := $1 something 11:08:54 something 10 11:09:07 (that becomes 10 something) 11:09:28 (I'll make a git after I had lunch) 11:10:55 (now i'm getting really offensive) ok put another way what i am asking is, whether math is like a million monkeys typing, and occasionally one of them has reams of breakthroughs and things named after him/her 11:11:25 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:12:42 that just doesn't make sense since it implies the monkey didn't merely get lucky like a lottery winner 11:13:15 but rather like all the lottery winners had eventually won the jackpot, say > 5 times in their life 11:14:09 like somehow they are defying any sort of odds 11:15:47 is it that the system can't handle too many such people? 11:18:15 or maybe there is a decreasing amount of things to discover, and an increasing number of people working to discover them 11:22:36 I think it's the speed at which you can connect to things with each other. -- is this related to art? 11:26:07 i think that constraining connections to those where a logical connection is clear can be a problem 11:27:18 but then i'm wacked out of my mind 11:27:20 AnotherTest: Cool. 11:33:42 -!- itidus21 has left ("bye, have a beautiful time"). 11:42:07 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:48 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 11:49:48 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:57:03 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 12:03:37 itidus21: maybe. Although there are many forms of art (I think thinking can be an art, it doesn't have to be manual) 12:04:33 oh he left 12:08:26 Finished season 7 12:10:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:52 -!- itidus21 has joined. 12:16:40 hmm 12:18:11 so, if i have a repeating sequence say 56777..., what happens if i try to say 1234(56777...)(56777...)(56777...)... 12:18:19 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:19:15 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:20:28 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 12:20:33 probably there is no simple answer to this that i would need to know 12:20:59 oh dear 12:21:07 i guess it's a generalization of, 12333...4 12:21:39 which is missing the whole point of the ... 12:27:17 -!- boily has joined. 12:27:40 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:33:30 Phantom_Hoover, what happened? 12:33:41 itidus21 started talking 12:33:45 oh right 12:33:59 fortunately he stopped 12:35:14 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:43:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:49:10 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:01:44 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 13:13:35 -!- elliott has joined. 13:13:59 fizzie: Deewiant: Hey, what's a simple way to set up an FD (from a BSD socket later but a file now) with non-blocking reads? 13:15:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 13:17:56 long flags = fcntl(fd, F_GETFL); fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, flags | O_NONBLOCK); or some-such, maybe. 13:18:38 fizzie: :/ 13:18:41 fizzie: What about on, uh, Windows? 13:18:53 (Isn't there a way to open a file in non-blocking mode?) 13:19:18 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:19:22 mroman: https://github.com/AnotherTest/HELP 13:19:29 Yeah, that was the "turn it on post-creation" approach. You can | O_NONBLOCK to the second argument of open(2), too. 13:19:45 I'm not so sure about Windows, though. 13:20:00 fizzie: Thanks. 13:20:09 I'll wait for Deewiant for Windows since didn't he do mcmap's Windows socket stuff? 13:20:14 mroman: link with libboost_regex and -std=c++11 13:23:21 elliott: unsigned long yes = 1; ioctlsocket(s, FIONBIO, &yes); is what you'd have done in some winsock versions, but that place is a bit of a mess. (I don't think sockets and files are quite so interchangeable in Windows.) 13:24:37 Anyway, OK, this should be, uh. 13:24:40 Easy? I... guess. 13:25:01 (According to infallible SO, before POSIX standardized fcntl O_NONBLOCK, there used to be ioctl FIONBIO and fcntl O_NDELAY to do the same thing, with all kinds of amusing incompatibilities and discrepancies between them. 13:25:03 fizzie: (And is there a way to figure out "reading from this file wouldn't block" without actually reading from it?) 13:25:44 You can of course poll/select it, if you mean the "figure out for the very next read call" way. 13:25:49 There's a select for sockets in winsock. 13:26:12 And of course Windows-API ways to do it too, presumably. 13:26:25 fizzie: Ugh, well. I guess poll/select would work. 13:26:29 So heavyweight for a simple check though. 13:26:54 If only there was a poll1 or such. 13:28:45 there's an fcntl to ask for the number of bytes readable 13:28:46 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:28:58 or maybe it was an ioctl 13:29:39 That sounds more awful. :( 13:29:47 "Socket APIs will return WSA errnos, rather than the standard ones (e.g. WSAEWOULDBLOCK, although Windows also has EWOULDBLOCK). Except when they don't. Refer to MSDN." Lovable. 13:31:51 they would've been better off not even trying to emulate those unix apis 13:32:31 Currently it just makes people go all "they're *so* close I think if I squeeze a bit I can just use the same code". 13:32:48 fizzie: Can you fix this codebase? 13:32:51 It uses event polling and oh. 13:33:35 olsner: I wouldn't count on FIONREAD to (a) work on Windows' socket-ioctl-alike or (b) work on all kinds of fds in general, anyway. 13:34:26 Huh, what do I know: ioctlsocket in fact does do FIONREAD. 13:35:13 (Might still be better with a select.) 13:35:55 I guess I can just use read directly into a global buffer. Ugh. Ugh. UGH. 13:37:31 Guh, it's SO HOT. 13:38:03 Us nordics should say out of these kinds of southern desert countries such as e.g. Belgium. 13:38:10 It's like 28 Celsoids. 13:38:55 It's about degrees here. 13:38:56 WTF are you talking about, the average summer high in Helsinki is like 22 degrees. 13:39:09 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, and this is like six more. 13:39:12 HOW DO YOU LIVE 13:39:27 fizzie: The high today in this town is 37C. 13:39:43 Gregor, are you a magma being 13:40:14 (Actually for the previous three weeks it's been around 12-18 degrees and mostly rainy here, it's just this particular week; and to be honest, there's often a single hot week in a Finnish summer too.) 13:41:03 Two-digit temperatures that start with 3 (let alone 4) are scary. 13:41:07 do you all sit in your saunas eagerly awaiting the Hot Week 13:41:22 I think we just sit around complaining. 13:41:32 "Oh, it's been such a miserable summer." 13:41:36 Two-digit temperatures that start with 3!? Isn't that like above the melting point of humans? 13:41:37 are you sure you aren't british 13:41:49 olsner, but not magma beings. 13:42:05 Their melting point is well into the high 50s. 13:42:10 south europeans are magma beings 13:42:36 hm, does anyone know a tool to find differences between sets of files? With that I mean if I have two sets of files (A and B) each containing several files with some differences I want to find the set of differences such that the difference is not a difference of the files within set A or B but only between them 13:42:51 oh and the files are binary files, so standard diff and such are pretty useless 13:43:08 It is currently +49 degrees Celsius in Kut, Irak. 13:43:40 The (Finnish) weather site I use has this handy "hot and cold spots around the world" info-box. 13:43:43 it is like +27 C here, it is terrible 13:43:52 So you can be all "I'm glad I'm not there". 13:45:16 anyway, does anyone know a good way to do that sort of comparison? 13:45:25 -!- MDoze has changed nick to MDude. 13:46:21 Vorpal: I'm not sure what the question is, but maybe you want to e.g. take the md5sum of each file and compare the sets of sums of the sets of files 13:46:50 err, I mean "I'm not sure what the question is, but maybe you want to e.g. google it" 13:47:01 I'm not entirely sure what you wanted either. All differences between A1-B1, A1-B2, A1-B3, ..., A1-Bm, A2-B1, A2-B2, ..., An-B1, ..., An-Bm where |A|=n and |B|=m? 13:47:24 It's 19 here, and it's a warm day. 13:47:46 fizzie: that's actually extraordinary; we normally have much lower tempratures 13:48:09 AnotherTest: So I've heard. It's so extraordinary some of the people here are going camping. 13:48:34 global warming! 13:48:41 Vorpal: if what you want is to know how similar the aarch64 (arm64) code is to the arm code in the linux kernel, that comparison has already been done 13:49:14 10-day gue.. uh, I mean, predictions suggest that Friday's the last warm day. 13:49:23 Coincidentally, that's when we're going home. 13:50:28 AnotherTest, hardly the globe. 13:50:49 I'm leaving for vacation Friday :) 13:51:04 Phantom_Hoover: true 13:51:07 I dreamt about having a discussion where someone claimed the days of the week were sunday, monday, ..., sunday 13:51:29 i.e. 8 day weeks with two days having the same name 13:52:03 Sunday_1 and Sunday_2. 13:52:18 Sunday and Sunday'. 13:52:56 It sounds quite confusing, especially since the Sunday of one week is right adjacent to a Sunday' of another. 13:53:17 it's possible that they meant that each sunday is in two weeks at the same time 13:53:35 or more likely, they were idiots 13:54:03 So would, after a year, Sunday be Sunday'? 13:54:06 olsner: perhaps you are tired of having days and months named after celestial beings and gods who don't seem to get discussed often lately 13:54:07 No, they were Romans. 13:54:24 s/Sunday be Sunday'/Sunday' be Sunday/ 13:54:45 (Romans had 8-day weeks but counted inclusively so they said the weekly market was every ninth day. 13:54:46 *) 13:55:08 the song "sunday bloody sunday" is in fact about a mixup over the two sundays 13:57:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:57:15 While "Sundae, bloody sundae" is the lamentation of a dessertmaker. 13:57:28 Or possibly a mishap with a blender. 13:57:30 Either-or. 13:57:38 well, both 13:57:47 the dessertmaker's mishap with the blender 13:58:28 Is that the suicide song? No, that's Gloomy Sunday. 14:00:21 the chorus of sunday bloody sunday is funny in swedish 14:00:50 it sounds like they're singing "little negros in the sand" in a southern-swedish accent 14:03:56 Hey, it's also the cold stone day today. 14:04:20 a ceremonial freezing of magma people? 14:05:50 A Finnish folklore that today Jaakko casts a cold stone to the sea (and/or your local lake), causing it to cool down, signifying that summer's about to start ending, and the swimming season's going to be over. 14:05:58 Phantom_Hoover, olsner: Y'know, although 37C is a typical high in the summer, -23C is a typical low in the winter. 14:06:19 Thanks to calendarical confusion, the day's a bit earlier than it should. 14:06:23 -!- hughfdjackson has joined. 14:06:31 Muahahahaha 14:06:33 `welcome hughfdjackson 14:06:34 Gregor: Must be inconvenient for you magma beings. 14:06:38 hughfdjackson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:06:46 fizzie: It really is! 14:06:54 :D cheers 14:11:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:17:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:18:24 is there any evidence that the universe isn't a closed system? 14:18:43 i.e. heat death might not occur. 14:21:24 Phantom_Hoover, olsner: Y'know, although 37C is a typical high in the summer, -23C is a typical low in the winter. 14:21:34 Yeah, that's just wierd. 14:21:37 *weird 14:21:44 magmar will rise again... 14:22:12 ^ /s/magmar will rise again.../magmar magmar/ 14:22:59 the itch king of magmar 14:24:23 :3 "According to IGN, its English name is derived from the word "magma"." 14:24:57 who the hell wrote that 14:25:08 i have to see what other edits they made 14:25:59 Don't bother, it always turns out to be some IP. 14:28:52 User:New Age Retro Hippie 14:29:21 i just think it's funny... it's probably not contrary to fact 14:29:55 lol... goals.. 1. Create articles for every character in Punch-Out!! for Wii. 14:30:57 Thanks for all the work you did in making Rugrats: Search for Reptar a certified "Good Article"! Your work is much appreciated. 14:31:26 Impressive. 14:34:09 Is "repmat" a thing in some thing? 14:34:18 (It's a Matlab function, but I mean otherwise.) 15:00:20 Sgeo_: hey, how do you feel about forming a sort of Agoran partnership? 15:00:48 I'll say "Machiavelli agrees that from now until further notice, all messages published by Sgeo are also published by Machiavelli", and then you'll say something similar. 15:01:52 "if i am sgeo, i transfer all my possessions to tswett then deregister" 15:02:16 I'd state that as "Sgeo transfers all his possessions to Machiavelli and then deregisters." 15:02:46 Naturally, it doesn't work unless we trust each other not to be dicks. 15:06:09 I know I trust anyone with a good, solid name like Machiavelli to not be a dick. 15:22:07 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:46:04 -!- hughfdjackson has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:01:31 -!- soundnfury has quit (Quit: Time). 16:11:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:41:00 Vorpal: I'm not sure what the question is, but maybe you want to e.g. take the md5sum of each file and compare the sets of sums of the sets of files <-- I want to find specific offsets in the files for the differences 16:41:11 Vorpal: if what you want is to know how similar the aarch64 (arm64) code is to the arm code in the linux kernel, that comparison has already been done <-- nope 16:41:41 olsner, basically I want to reverse engineer which byte in a binary file contains a specific flag 16:41:48 -!- itidus21 has changed nick to honest_niccolo. 16:41:53 there are however always going to be other differences between the different files 16:41:59 thus I need to filter those out 16:42:05 and just find the one I'm interested in 16:42:59 thus I would have two sets of files, one set with the flag set, and one set with it unset. There would in all cases be a number of other differences between the files. So I want to find the byte that differs /between/ the sets but not /inside/ each set 16:43:13 fizzie, ^ 16:43:16 How can you find out such a flag? 16:43:30 What kind of flag is this anyways? 16:43:32 (sorry for going afk, got an important call and have to leave immediately) 16:43:56 maybe i am ...ST_NIC... 16:43:56 How can you find out such a flag? <-- that is what I'm asking 16:43:58 Vorpal: Do you mean all the files are of the same size or what? 16:44:04 honest_niccolo: me 2 16:44:04 fizzie, oh yes indeed they are 16:44:15 fizzie, the file is basically a huge struct as far as I can tell 16:44:23 What kind of flag is this anyways? <-- boolean 16:44:52 I mean, what is it measuring? 16:45:02 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:45:09 -!- honest_niccolo has changed nick to good_guy_machiav. 16:45:13 zzo38, if a specific feature is enabled or not. 16:45:45 fizzie, you know, what I want to do is kind of similar to those "find cheat" features in zsnes and so on, except on binary files 16:45:59 I mean, the same sort of algorithm would work 16:46:55 -!- good_guy_machiav has changed nick to itidus21. 16:46:59 Well, it would at least be an approximation, if you fed to the algorithm always one file from set A and then set B alternatingly. 16:47:30 Yes those kind of cheat finder is one idea 16:47:55 fizzie, hm? Do all the files in set a and select "same value", Do the same for set b. Then look for "differs" between those sets 16:47:58 mroman: # while\s+(.*)do(.*)od := {\2} {\1} w! 16:47:58 # \n := 16:47:58 # \s{2,} := 16:47:58 50 16:47:58 while 5 .> do 16:47:58 ^^ 16:47:58 1 .- 16:47:59 od 16:48:13 fizzie, anyway it is fairly easy to write the software to do this, I just wondered if anything existed already 16:48:33 (I would probably write it in erlang btw) 16:51:01 at least it would make it dead trivial to adapt the algorithm if it turned out to be part of a bitfield 16:52:43 Doing all files in set X with "same value" will only find you the offsets that are "fixed" throughout set X. It doesn't really sound like comparing those lists directly will help all that much. You want to find the masks of fixed bytes, take the & of them, and then considering only bytes in that find the ones in which there is a difference for each pair (a,b) with a in A, b in B. 16:53:24 fizzie, well I expect the byte I'm looking for to be fixed in each set. 16:53:39 -!- edwardk has left ("Leaving..."). 16:53:46 Sure, but you also want to consider only bytes that always differ when you look across-set. 16:54:01 Of course I don't know what your files are like. 16:54:44 binary blobs 16:54:48 -!- itidus21 has left ("fungot?"). 16:54:58 I mean, whether just finding the fixed bytes is enough. 16:55:01 fizzie, anyway I'm surprised this sort of software doesn't exist. It would seem like the ideal way to find stuff like which byte contains the flag for "this phone has a locked SIM". Which is kind of similar to what I'm trying to find. 16:55:34 But if files of set A contain A000000 and A000111, and set B has B000000 and B000111, finding the fixed bytes of both sets would give you a mask like 1111000 while you really only want 1000000. 16:55:48 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to scampumpkin. 16:56:23 fizzie, err why are you not comparing the values when comparing between the sets? 16:56:48 you need to use "differs" for the between-set comparsion 16:56:55 comparison* 16:59:12 you just use two equally long binary strings in memory for each set. One is the data of the first file, the other is the mask. For each file in the same set you compare and update the mask. Then when you compare between sets you compare again but this time you instead looks for where they differ rather than for where they are the same 16:59:39 Yes, that is what I would do. 16:59:46 I just didn't really catch your "differs" thing. 17:00:17 the most elegant way would be to consider each new file a new set, and then simply offer two merging operations between set: "mask-same" and "mask-different" 17:02:28 if we do this bitwise, then updating the mask is very easy. If we assign 0 to mean masked out (thus the mask starts out at all 1) then the new mask becomes (for "must be the same" case): newmask = m1 & m2 & ~(d1 ^ d2), no? 17:02:40 where m is mask, and d is data 17:03:06 and you would remove the bitwise not for the "must be different" case obviously 17:03:23 I love bitwise operations 17:03:33 I don't know what m1 and m2 are. 17:03:44 mask from old set 1 and mask from old set 2 17:03:49 same for d = data 17:04:20 fizzie, since there is no point is not generalising both operations to not work between sets 17:04:28 -!- scampumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 17:05:34 Well, okay, but you can't sensibly define the "new data" for the "must be different" case. 17:05:55 well okay 17:06:19 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:06:44 fizzie, actually the data is then meaningless since we know that that bit is either 0 or 1. 17:06:53 you could add a third mask to represent this I guess 17:07:23 don't see the point for my usage 17:14:13 * coppro grumbles about having to use e2fsck -c -c 17:15:09 coppro, -c -c? 17:15:52 Vorpal: rtfm 17:16:24 coppro, my manual only says what happens if you use it once 17:16:36 coppro, so that doesn't help at all 17:16:46 Vorpal: do a non-destructive read-write test 17:16:52 ah 17:17:02 to find stealth bad block 17:17:04 *blocks 17:17:34 Vorpal: Your man page really doesn't have the "If this option is specified twice, then the bad block scan will be done using a non-destructive read-write test." bit? 17:18:21 fizzie, nope 17:18:29 That's a pretty crummy man page. 17:18:31 ^ 17:19:00 fizzie, it actually seems they cut out a bit because that section ends with "If this option is specified" 17:19:07 guess it is a bug fixed in newer versions 17:19:16 this laptop is running a pretty old distro 17:19:33 That was from Ubuntu 10.10. 17:19:40 fizzie, that is very new 17:19:41 The "perfect ten", I think it was called. 17:19:46 It's not very new. 17:19:46 fizzie, I have 10.04 17:19:59 Yeah, it's just six months newer. 17:20:46 (I don't really know why they didn't stick with the LTS, but then also didn't keep updating things.) 17:21:03 (Though they do have a 12.04 installation rolling out, I believe.) 17:21:25 who are they 17:21:43 fizzie's evil overlord 17:21:48 People at regular-work. 17:22:13 fizzie, Finland then? 17:22:17 Yeah. 17:22:27 Let's see what they have at temporary-work. 17:22:40 Except I don't remember what the workstation was called. 17:23:09 CentOS 6.3, apparently. 17:23:40 That's very new, in fact the newest, apparently. 17:23:55 what is it with youtube and not the "buffered up until this point" marker not matching how far it actually buffered 17:24:38 -!- soundnfury has joined. 17:24:40 I wonder what it is with YouTube and the frame-thumbnail-for-the-seekbar that randomly seems to sometimes be there, sometimes not. 17:24:43 Videos are like WiFi. 17:24:56 fizzie, I think it is there for older videos 17:25:03 I guess they don't generate that straight away 17:25:10 They defy all mortal comprehension when examined too closely, despite being apparently simple. 17:25:21 Phantom_Hoover, wifi is in no way simple 17:25:31 Maybe they generate them only when sufficiently many people have bothered to seek the video in question. 17:25:41 not even apparently 17:26:04 also this video sometimes just breaks, stops loading 17:26:11 You want "defies mortal comprehension"? Try getting CPU frequency scaling to behave 17:26:13 Vorpal, well it certainly isn't obvious that your connection's stability is going to be incredibly variable for no apparent reason. 17:26:34 Phantom_Hoover, well, that follows from the SNR 17:26:49 * soundnfury has just spent about an hour on it, and "cpufreq-info" still doesn't work 17:27:50 and I still don't know whether the bug's in the kernel, the module, the bios, or whether I just have a shit and borken CPU 17:27:52 soundnfury, what CPU? 17:27:57 what system in general 17:28:25 Vorpal: Celeron. Linux (3.2.0-3-686-pae). MSI CR500X laptop 17:28:32 hm 17:28:39 no idea about that, maybe it is too old 17:28:44 does the CPU even support it? 17:28:59 Celeron T3500 17:29:17 Not sure, but there was a BIOS option to enable it 17:29:31 Sounds like acpi-cpufreq then. 17:29:34 any idea which of the /proc/cpuinfo flags might indicate it 17:29:50 fizzie: acpi-cpufreq wouldn't load (No such device). But, speedstep-lib did 17:30:18 Maybe it does the speedstep thing, then. Though module loading isn't really proof positive. 17:31:53 tru dat 17:32:10 but the BIOS option was (iirc) called speedstep too, 17:32:15 so unless the BIOS is overly generic 17:32:44 http://www.notebookcheck.nl/Intel-Celeron-Dual-Core-T3500-Notebook-Processor.48260.0.html through Google Translate sounds somewhat negative. "The Celeron T3500 does not have support for Enhanced SpeedStep (and other technologies), the average power consumption is so, however, higher, lower battery life as a result." 17:33:09 Maybe they have a real English version too. 17:33:18 Geolocation seems to have given me a .nl thing. 17:33:59 Well, http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Celeron-Dual-Core-T3500-Notebook-Processor.37117.0.html isn't any better English. 17:34:03 But that's what they claim. 17:34:18 what about the intel data sheet page 17:34:24 ark.intel.com or something iirc 17:34:27 That's http://ark.intel.com/products/42104 17:34:29 It's silent on it. 17:34:53 soundnfury, looks like you may be out of luck 17:35:21 yeah, just found out that "Enhanced SpeedStep" is cpuinfo flag "est", which isn't here 17:35:36 ok, so in other words My Laptop Is Shite 17:35:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: wrong). 17:35:43 but I already knew that 17:36:00 soundnfury, well obviously.... Anything with a Celeron is super-old anyway 17:36:05 and thus shit in modern terms 17:36:24 It was cheap 17:36:33 soundnfury, how long have you had it? 17:36:50 umm, year and a half I think 17:36:56 hm okay 17:37:03 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:37:07 bought it used then I guess 17:37:21 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:37:26 my previous laptop developed an intermittent fault due to (we think) a hairline crack on the mobo 17:37:36 no, new from Novatech 17:37:46 Vorpal: Celeron T3500 launch date is listed as Q3'10, that's less than two years ago. 17:37:47 Celeron new 1.5 years ago? 17:37:50 wow 17:37:51 -!- azaq23 has joined. 17:37:57 Celeron was still alive as a brand then 17:37:58 wtf 17:38:15 Celeron feels so 10 years ago 17:38:28 Vorpal: There are Sandy Bridge Celerons from 2012. 17:38:47 I thought they killed the brand ages ago? 17:38:59 Celeron 797, release date January 2012. 17:39:11 http://ark.intel.com/products/63917 17:39:35 huh 17:40:29 No Ivy Bridge Celerons (yet), though. 17:40:50 right 17:41:01 Celeron T3500 (what I have) release date September 2010 (says Wiki) 17:41:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Celeron_microprocessors 17:41:21 Yes. 17:41:41 I did quote the Intel spec-sheet launch date, up there. 17:42:35 Vorpal: Also Celeron G550 (a desktop thing) from June 2012, that's like last month. 17:43:38 Hey, whoa. 17:43:53 heh 17:43:56 Win-tab does some kinda threedee alt-tab in Win 7. 17:44:01 The more you know, I guess. 17:44:06 I haven't really used this much. 17:44:06 sec 17:44:13 fizzie, doesn't for me 17:44:16 are you using Areo? 17:44:20 Yes. 17:44:23 Aero. 17:44:26 I use the classic looks 17:44:28 so no Areo 17:44:36 fizzie, what does it look like? 17:45:13 http://www.windows7taskforce.com/uploads/alt-win%20tab.jpg like that top thing. 17:45:20 (That's some kind of a combined thing.) 17:45:29 But the thing with the "sheets". 17:45:38 I see 17:45:42 pretty useless 17:46:00 Sure, I was just surprised. Thought I was alt-tabbing. 17:46:04 heh 17:46:34 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:48:46 (Also it's still Aero and not Areo.) 17:49:27 whatever 17:50:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:51:36 Hello, orejan. 17:51:50 g'day fuzzie 17:52:01 I was hoping you'd correct the spelling. 17:52:08 Then I could've said "whatever". 17:52:31 sounds dangerous. 18:00:12 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:00:14 Hello! 18:11:54 It's quiet 18:16:18 too quiet 18:18:40 All quiet on the esoteric front? 18:18:42 -!- erwin has joined. 18:19:05 -!- erwin has quit. 18:20:02 Indeed 18:29:54 what is it with google services today. I'm having massive issues with youtube, gmail and google reader. Timing out or giving me 500 internal server errors sometimes 18:32:43 we hate yuou 18:33:03 who/what is "yuou"? 18:34:10 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:34:20 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:34:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:34:51 hm. 18:35:00 Kann a PDA reverse its stack? 18:35:20 No. 18:36:34 Public display of affection? 18:39:06 The "no takebacks" rule of public displays of affection. 18:39:43 mroman: if it could, then you could easily implement a tape 18:40:11 or queue 18:40:18 That's what I figured @queue 18:41:03 Taneb: pushdown automaton hth 18:41:05 A nondeterministic public display of affection can recognize a palindrome, though. 18:41:24 The thing is... 18:41:27 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Pushdown-overview.svg 18:41:35 What's state supposed to mean? 18:41:41 Is that some sort of internal state? 18:41:48 "Roll the dice, if it's 1, we just hug" 18:41:51 Modifieable by instructions on the input tape? 18:41:54 "That's not a palindrome!" 18:42:13 mroman: Just look at the mathy definition as opposed to confusing images. 18:42:28 mroman: yes, it has internal finite state in addition to the stack 18:42:43 The thing that starts with the 7-tuple. 18:52:44 I'm trying to figure out whether Burlesque is a PDA 18:52:54 it's probably not. 18:53:04 You can't reverse the stack though. 18:53:36 unless you know how many elements on the stack are or leave a marking element somewhere 18:56:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:58:17 if you have only finite memory other than the stack, and cannot do anything to the stack below some depth without removing what's above, then it's probably a PDA. 18:58:45 A nondeterministic public display of affection can recognize a palindrome, though. <-- what? 18:59:23 oh, I blame Taneb for that 19:00:04 oh and each stack element has finite bounded size 19:00:23 A stack element can have an infinite size. 19:00:31 (eg. Blocks (Lists)) 19:00:51 so you can simulate a queue with a list I guess. 19:00:55 hm right 19:02:54 which would probably make it turing complete. 19:03:46 I can simulate brainfucks >< by rotating a list, +,- obviously by incrementing the head of the list 19:04:00 [] using a while loop that checks the head of the list, done. 19:04:38 mroman: can you do underload's :()^ ? those are very simple for a stack language with blocks... 19:04:42 mroman, are you trying to prove a new language TC? 19:05:21 : is duplicate, I can do that. 19:06:05 duplicate, swap, pop not a problem. 19:06:16 and stuff is pushed automatically. 19:07:21 quite possibly !a* are also easy, but :()^ are all that are needed for TC 19:07:44 ^ modifies the program? 19:08:15 it's really just eval 19:08:29 hm. 19:10:20 (:^):^ 19:11:25 It's probably easier to translate brainfuck to Burlesque than translating underload :) 19:11:55 If you have integers of infinite size as the stack elements, and can do suitable things to it, you could go via a two-counter machine too. 19:11:58 Pushing instructions to the stack is possible 19:12:07 but it requires a lot of wrapping stuff in blocks :) 19:12:36 mroman: ah so you don't have a way to simply parse nested blocks? 19:12:52 oerjan: Nested blocks are no problem. 19:13:37 well then, hm 19:13:54 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:14:10 You can put code in a block and eval it. 19:14:11 ( -> { , ) -> } , : -> ^^ , ^ -> e! 19:14:21 is there anything wrong with that translation? 19:14:46 so (:^):^ becomes {^^e!}^^e!? 19:14:54 yeah 19:14:58 Sure, that works. 19:15:13 well then it's TC 19:17:17 ! and * may be vv and ** 19:18:41 or maybe .+ for the latter 19:19:50 .+ doesn't work for commands yet. 19:19:54 but that'd be a good idea 19:20:12 although 19:20:17 .+ works for blocks 19:20:54 hm. 19:20:58 yeah... should work with .+ 19:21:09 a might be {}\/[+ , assuming [+ nests if the arguments are both blocks 19:21:44 blsq ) {ab} {cd} [+ 19:21:44 {ab {cd}} 19:22:01 excellent 19:22:28 so then you have all of underload except S, which tends to break with reencodings anyhow 19:23:32 mroman: http://pastebin.com/bMpJPxQA -- just a quick example. It lacks many things. 19:25:01 I had to make it skip whitespace because blsq gives me errors if I don't? Shouldn't all whitespace be ignored? 19:26:03 White spaces are optional 19:26:08 *whitespaces 19:26:18 except after { 19:27:02 hm. 19:27:23 mroman: it seems to happen only with newlines(?) 19:28:20 Let me put an "optional spaces" after { 19:28:54 http://pastebin.com/gW3bfVu0 19:28:58 that gives me: 19:29:10 blsq: (line 3, column 1): 19:29:10 unexpected " " 19:29:30 yeah, that's invalid because whitespace can't follow {. 19:29:40 which is a missing optional spaces in my parser. 19:30:12 ah 19:30:19 Can't git just ignore binary files 19:30:27 yes 19:30:33 .gitignore 19:30:39 That should be possible 19:31:09 I thought that only allows extensions? 19:31:12 Unless your binary files are in the same directory as the source code? 19:31:28 I put bin/* in there today, and that worked 19:31:53 https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque/commit/8d7addc5667a703091fff9194b79a613c29d6da4 19:31:56 AnotherTest: Yeah that works. 19:32:02 But I whish it would ignore binary files at all 19:32:04 no matter where they are. 19:32:58 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:33:44 I sometimes do ghc --make main.hs -o burlesque to test things. 19:33:49 Hello 19:33:53 and then when I do git add . it adds it 19:34:02 and haskell binaries are like 6MB or so 19:35:38 I'm going. Tomorrow I will try to add functions or something else to Burlesque by using HELP. I think it's possible by adding a flag that will make it preprocess everything twice (this will allow a macro to generate a macro) 19:36:08 don't use git add ., just add the right files instead 19:36:26 I'm too used to git add . :D 19:36:32 or, if you really are lazy 19:36:38 *.hs 19:36:38 Because 19:36:47 sometimes I just edit files and have no idea which I edited 19:36:49 so i just do 19:36:56 git add .; git commit -m "*bump*"; git push; 19:37:00 git commit -a is also a lazy solution. 19:37:02 silly me :) 19:37:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:37:17 git add *.hs? 19:37:19 (It will only add modified/deleted, not new files.) 19:37:28 oh. 19:37:30 fizzie: Thanks. 19:39:22 Overuse of "commit -a" might make one forget to actually add new files, though. (Personally I just take a quick git status to see what I've been doing lately, and then add explicitly.) 19:39:43 -!- Taneb has left ("Leaving"). 19:39:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:40:01 I've... never figured out how to use git 19:40:06 Not that I've tried 19:46:19 it's not too difficult once you understand some basic stuff 19:50:28 unless you're Gregor 20:00:05 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:00:12 -!- SimonRC has joined. 20:06:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:10:44 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 20:10:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:25:17 You can put filenames in .gitignore 20:25:27 I usually put in the names of my binaries 20:36:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 20:52:56 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:03:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 21:03:36 -!- boily has joined. 21:12:35 It occurs to me, that I have now bought Amnesia 3 times 21:12:39 Never played it 21:14:45 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Friendship. 21:23:34 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:25:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8). 21:30:58 tswett, what's this about a partnership? 21:41:40 -!- Friendship has changed nick to Gregor. 21:42:36 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:43:12 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 21:43:12 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 21:43:12 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 21:44:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:01:00 Sgeo_: I think it was a trap. 22:04:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:09:49 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:50 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 22:11:47 -!- david_werecat has joined. 22:27:09 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:33:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:44:34 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:44:34 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 22:44:34 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:53:36 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:03:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:03:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:03:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:03:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:03:44 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:03:44 -!- glogbackup has left. 23:03:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:03:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:04:54 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:11:44 -!- MDoze has joined. 23:11:44 -!- MDoze has changed nick to MDude. 23:14:21 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 23:14:25 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:17:07 -!- yiyus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:19:38 -!- yiyus has joined. 23:43:09 -!- Gregor has joined. 23:54:25 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:56:43 -!- quintopia has joined.