< 1341792023 221932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be related to Kan extensions as well. < 1341792345 447052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example you can have: CoYoneda (X [] Maybe) < 1341792514 527881 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is a bit like (X x y) is decomposing the type x from y, sort of. < 1341792558 276156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of this way? < 1341793578 103216 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341794561 161477 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341794850 330702 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341794858 161996 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341794860 414855 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341794936 161673 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341795655 766963 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341795668 161525 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341795766 824731 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341795772 161739 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341795851 821769 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341795857 161987 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341796434 162536 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1341798550 162548 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341798952 245401 :rmdashrf!~rmdashrf@unaffiliated/rmdashrf JOIN :#esoteric < 1341798961 939249 :rmdashrf!~rmdashrf@unaffiliated/rmdashrf PART :#esoteric < 1341800077 572085 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1341800117 857714 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1341802405 866510 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341804308 885280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1341806180 574912 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1341807706 162679 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341807752 582839 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1341808005 403086 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1341808035 596088 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1341808634 528284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of simultaneous chess boxing where you have to call out the moves while you are fighting your opponent too. (You can use algebraic or descriptive notation.) There is chess clock but only the referee needs to touch them and to update the view of the board on the walls (there is none on the ceiling). < 1341809243 491358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how you can make a free monad using a F-algebra: toFree (CodensityAsk f) = f (Algebra Free) Pure; mkFree x = CodensityAsk (\(Algebra q) k -> q (fmap k x)); < 1341809924 645848 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1341810179 961186 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho, edwardk < 1341810185 571041 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :heya < 1341810212 782818 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you manage all your haskell code so that you can easily use it when you run ghci or the like? < 1341810222 701142 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start cabalizing and that means I need more than one directory tree < 1341810259 257052 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i make a cabal project for each thing i work on < 1341810261 365363 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :then its just there < 1341810348 139761 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you ensure that ghci loads all your projects? < 1341810381 272321 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you cabal install the project it will get loaded when you use it < 1341810387 543470 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg. in cabal install 'ad' < 1341810389 917041 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i run ghci < 1341810393 38692 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and import Numeric.AD < 1341810401 235460 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it just works since ghc-pkg has the package unhidden < 1341810439 773824 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use local installs? < 1341810551 649507 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1341810562 176691 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use 'cabal install' as my build process < 1341810577 695460 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then forget about the package and move on to the next when i start working on that < 1341810682 336672 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1341810796 228891 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :another useful thing to make ghci happy < 1341810796 467325 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to make your project source files sit in a src dir < 1341810816 387514 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add it via hs-source-dirs < 1341810816 586216 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way ghci doesn't try to load the file directly when you are in the top level project folder < 1341810827 788133 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can matter a lot when you have interesting build processes < 1341810917 526449 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to do that all the time when i have a package with a c library dependency or something else complicated < 1341813292 593241 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341813318 165845 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-48.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1341813815 775064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always run a Haskell code in GHCi although I may compile executable files too sometimes. < 1341813855 305886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how you can make a free monad using a F-algebra: toFree (CodensityAsk f) = f (Algebra Free) Pure; mkFree x = CodensityAsk (\(Algebra q) k -> q (fmap k x)); < 1341814063 11635 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341814148 286860 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1341814451 708366 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1341814516 731214 :Nothing!cfe43d80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.228.61.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341814540 553586 :Nothing!cfe43d80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.228.61.128 NICK :Guest46900 < 1341814617 549145 :Guest46900!cfe43d80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.228.61.128 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be off to sleep in short order. < 1341814640 172160 :Guest46900!cfe43d80@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.228.61.128 QUIT :Client Quit < 1341814988 152221 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep on the ceiling next Sunday. < 1341815019 204018 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Sleep on the ceiling next Sunday. < 1341815030 955805 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :849) Sleep on the ceiling next Sunday. < 1341815114 668422 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because g is a vector! < 1341816542 765642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341816954 899023 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1341817403 394216 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1341817407 605436 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341817583 963464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't it g then. < 1341818240 472553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1341818862 197360 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1341818903 591027 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341819182 559473 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341819191 319928 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341819223 453801 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-20-28.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1341819380 907560 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1341819904 231117 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341820231 149168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the mount options used on android are kind of crazy... < 1341820270 234522 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they funny < 1341820290 127267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :most partitions are mounted noatime, of the two that are mounted relatime instead, one is also mounted ro < 1341820298 573927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the relatime has no effect < 1341820339 702118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, http://sprunge.us/dEXZ < 1341820358 192308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it fakes the internal storage being an sdcard by using fuse < 1341820385 90604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuse file system emulates a FAT-style file system when it comes to permissions < 1341820411 491515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/mnt/sdcard is actually stored at /data/media < 1341820471 794250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have a real microSD yet, going to buy one later this week hopefully) < 1341820526 115936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EGaM < 1341820532 971692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know why /mnt/sdcard is mounted relatime when the underlying directory for it is mounted noatime < 1341820536 549706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work < 1341820560 580840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, n900? What is up with the bind mounts? < 1341820563 257750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Android. Because screw your concepts of userspace, we just want init=/bin/dalvik < 1341820581 298835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I don't think init is /system/bin/dalvik? < 1341820590 608360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is no /bin) < 1341820594 604094 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not, but they very obviously wish it could be. < 1341820602 214358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell@android:/ $ ps < 1341820602 413469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :USER PID PPID VSIZE RSS WCHAN PC NAME < 1341820602 413658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 1 0 528 356 ffffffff 00000000 S /init < 1341820612 901409 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you wouldn't need anything else! < 1341820616 826302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of name is /init? < 1341820625 206471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, fun fact: Samsung sucks at programming < 1341820633 402516 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably that's the path to init < 1341820637 496840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, nope < 1341820641 368678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's nothing especially "up" with them, it's just that the / partition is kinda small so large packages put themselves in /opt (which is physically on /home, a larger partition) and then do some bind mounts if they "need" to be somewhere in /usr. < 1341820643 765294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sort of name devised by people who hate everything. < 1341820675 252060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I get two zombie sh processes every time I plug the phone into a computer. The parent is /system/bin/kiesexe, Kies is Samsung's PC bloatware suite for phones < 1341820700 323944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1341820730 636808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ busybox df -h / < 1341820730 983939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on < 1341820731 183190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :df: /: can't find mount point < 1341820731 674317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1341820736 857093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the built in df works < 1341820743 196957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ df / < 1341820743 395642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem Size Used Free Blksize < 1341820747 81571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ 0K 0K 0K 4096 < 1341820750 320496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't make sense < 1341820770 521342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, any idea what is going on with / on android? < 1341820788 565669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah I see < 1341820803 677906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which one is your sdcard? < 1341820805 516025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have one < 1341820812 458094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have one, and I've forgotten where it goes to. < 1341820823 924308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir) <-- why is that vfat? < 1341820824 268358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing in /home/user/MyDocs is the ~30G internal storage thing. < 1341820824 467319 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Only that Android userspace is a tower of lies. < 1341820829 675506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well yes < 1341820852 8377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose to be "more compatible". It's what gets exported if you plug the phone in as a mass storage device. < 1341820853 504533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the id->group/user mappings are hard coded tables in the libc from what I understand < 1341820862 259880 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1341820862 992517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, which means the busybox id doesn't work < 1341820873 351233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the busybox I have at least < 1341820881 401816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is presumably compiled against a different libc < 1341820884 648555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind that they literally *started with* a BSD libc... < 1341820894 375912 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They *actually had to work* to make this suck. < 1341820901 4430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? I thought they wrote bionic from scratch? < 1341820905 649208 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1341820912 110964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so no MTP? < 1341820941 773284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, my phone does MTP. It is kind of funky. Works kind of randomly sometimes under linux on the computer < 1341820952 567459 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fork of a BSD libc with actual *effort* applied to it to make it suck. < 1341820959 360178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ouch < 1341820984 869524 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not them being lazy, that is them *actually hating you*. < 1341820989 590424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even under windows it seems like MTP doesn't do IO scheduling. You can not start two copy operations to/from the phone at once! < 1341820992 179861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1341820999 229688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No; it has two modes, the mass storage one and then Nokia's PC Suite mode which makes it pretend to be a pile of devices, I don't even know what all of them do. (But there's the "can talk AT commands to" regular modem one.) < 1341821011 307651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1341821012 855434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So terribly many processes: http://sprunge.us/EahJ < 1341821016 944726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much internal storage does it have? < 1341821032 534252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh, not much more than my ubuntu laptop I bet < 1341821049 293577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragon $ ps aux | wc -l < 1341821049 493954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :164 < 1341821052 795918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :32G, of which about 30G go to MyDocs. < 1341821065 899703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell@android:/ $ ps | wc -l < 1341821066 115265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :174 < 1341821072 37537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this ps doesn't do a, u or x) < 1341821091 921282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why would anyone want 30 GB of vfat... < 1341821131 529182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? You're supposed to put your photos, videos and music there. Why would the filesystem matter especially much? It's not like it wouldn't format the microSD card VFAT too. < 1341821140 45392 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont call it fat! its not PC! < 1341821162 627991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can't run linux software that want proper permissions from it < 1341821228 802988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :BogoMIPS : 1592.52 <-- the CPU runs at 1.4 GHz, what a strange number of NOPs per clock cycle this CPU must have... < 1341821281 224431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand the definition of BogoMIPS, this means the CPU can execute approx 1.138 NOPs per clock cycle? < 1341821283 486736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1341821337 261400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers on my laptop are much closer to a whole multiple (~2.000978) < 1341821361 518496 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341821366 916928 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Home-SSH froze.) < 1341821367 116211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which probably just means the CPU doesn't run at exactly 2.26 GHz like it claims to) < 1341821380 349327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, any idea about that bogomips number? < 1341821399 310415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew, well, you can't run linux software that want proper permissions from it < 1341821402 638575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you missed that < 1341821405 86617 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@46.208.235.230 QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf < 1341821481 612229 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the last thing I saw. And yeah, but your regular user has music collection that is >> in size compared to software; especially since code doesn't take up all that much stuff. (Some games in the repository with large data files install those in MyDocs.) < 1341821494 65762 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/stuff/space/ < 1341821498 765508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hmm. < 1341821514 763671 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Beats me. < 1341821543 125461 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well. Maybe the branch takes a weird amount of time. < 1341821549 855026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1341821559 261025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it uses Thumb or ARM to measure it < 1341821564 410732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could factor into it I guess? < 1341821582 200129 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM chips don't exactly design for really fast branching, so. < 1341821587 497115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, btw did you know that android hotplugs inactive CPU cores in order to save power? < 1341821598 299170 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. No, I didn't. < 1341821601 867407 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, though. < 1341821623 263097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ARM /proc/cpuinfo is weird < 1341821639 495559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UhML < 1341821645 825696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks nothing like the x86 one < 1341821653 326732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no model name either < 1341821671 637093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is from a 4-core CPU, I guess the other cores are unplugged atm though < 1341821693 808983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a refreshingly short feature flag list < 1341821714 270591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my core 2 duo it is absurdly long, even worse on my core i7 (sandy bridge) < 1341821719 948148 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/UTPP < 1341821733 568249 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1341821759 238842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew, you have an arm7 on that thingy? I thought it was older than that < 1341821769 766973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very low bogomips though < 1341821782 873528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the actual clock frequency on it? < 1341821795 957622 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clocked to about 250 MHz most of the time, IIRC. 600 MHz is what it runs when busy. < 1341821813 424998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew, I thought bogomips was measured when it ran at full speed? < 1341821814 151726 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the hardware is OMAP3, it's the same as e.g. the original Droid. < 1341821837 937247 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen changing bogomips; don't know details. < 1341821854 847840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone seems to idle (with screen on) jumping between 200 and 500 MHz, staying at 200 most of the time < 1341821897 137079 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jTWT with a while true; do true; done running in another terminal. < 1341821904 773928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1341821928 511802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew, did you run the shell from the computer or on the phone itself? < 1341821933 597049 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the phone. < 1341821943 885715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1341821978 710071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about two busy loops? Or do you have a single core only? < 1341821984 576101 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's single-core, yes. < 1341821991 871481 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *that* new. < 1341822017 621673 :fizziew!~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BogoMIPS are calculated for those busy-loop delays, so it'd make sense it'd change as a function of the frequency to keep the delay times equal. (What gets printed in /proc/cpuinfo of course needn't.) < 1341822053 252030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that it stays constant on x86 at least < 1341822063 822499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't on my Athlon X2, unless I misremember. < 1341822084 223597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, this one works again too. Phew; was worried for a moment there. Would've been a bit hard to go home to debug.) < 1341822124 155894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I thought you were abroad? "* [fizziew] (~htkallas@pc112.ics.hut.fi): Heikki Kallasjoki" < 1341822137 373950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you have a bouncer at the university too? < 1341822151 169032 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It doesn't on my Athlon X2, unless I misremember. <-- hm it does on my core 2 duo < 1341822163 539013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/gJMf < 1341822167 355951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's from this workstation. < 1341822187 580383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which also happens to be an Athlon X2.) < 1341822200 752795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again with a while true loop between the two.) < 1341822205 61856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://sprunge.us/SQJg < 1341822246 114574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you ran two such loops there? < 1341822247 854717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just goes on to show that BogoMIPS are maybe not the best benchmark. :p < 1341822263 867791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one; the X2 frequency scaling is CPU-wide, not per-core. < 1341822266 612723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341822299 220862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just goes on to show that BogoMIPS are maybe not the best benchmark. :p <-- the only reason I looked at BogoMIPS was that it wasn't even close to a multiple of the clock speed on the phone < 1341822341 338915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the actual clock speed was not listed in the ARM cpuinfo < 1341822429 894304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be a slightly different busy loop on ARM. Modern processors are so weird anyway, you can't just sum up cycles/instruction like you mostly could on, say, a Z80. < 1341822446 408805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1341822514 270862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To answer an earlier question, no, I don't run a bouncer on pc112; I just had a backup irssi in a screen there. < 1341822567 947658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, any idea what "rootfs" is under linux? My laptop has it too, (only in /proc/mounts, not /etc/mtab though) < 1341822571 80605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check the constantness of bogomips on the Atom this client is running on, but funnily enough it doesn't do frequency scaling. < 1341822588 723662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, I thought atom was low power stuff < 1341822597 801011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1341822597 999826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely those do frequency scaling? < 1341822603 177155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1341822613 11278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it due to the kernel or the hardware? < 1341822619 828382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hardware, as far as I know. < 1341822623 896590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I guess it could be related to kernel versions < 1341822628 762700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ones did you test on < 1341822645 142482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested on 3.0 for my phone and 2.6.39 for my laptop < 1341822651 934849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ark.intel.com/products/35635 < 1341822658 879325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enhanced Intel SpeedStep® Technology No < 1341822667 856204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1341822682 629196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it does hyperthreading? < 1341822689 580726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1341822696 883118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so weird < 1341822701 476499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I have a HT kernel on it, though. < 1341822703 225105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what sort of computer is it in? < 1341822718 641293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on a Jetway "mini-ITX" board. < 1341822729 1187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1341822753 900105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly chosen because they had a fancy add-on "daughterboard" that adds 3x Realtek gigabit ethernet ports to the one on the motherboard already. < 1341822755 542162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of power management, I'm pretty sure my desktop runs cooler under linux than under windows < 1341822770 113670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(idle condition, screen on empty desktop in both cases) < 1341822771 757427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's four ports in quite a small package, to summarize. < 1341822784 880584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 ethernet ports? < 1341822790 206199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use it as a router? < 1341822792 930817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1341822802 305639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1341822845 613565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also currently in an ATX chassis because the power supply in the tiny mini-ITX box sort of gave up, and I didn't see a reasonable replacement for it anywhere, it's kind of oddly shaped. It looks rather humorous with the tiny board inside the huge box. < 1341822859 478934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1341822875 927922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so a full tower case or what? < 1341822889 600114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/case/chassis/ < 1341822907 399894 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite, fortunately. It's some sort of a smaller edition, I suppose it's designed for a mini-ATX board. But still. < 1341822926 34845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those form factors < 1341822954 407969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "HD" is also just a 8G CF card with an IDE adapter, packed into a plastic box that used to hold screws, then electric-taped tightly shut. < 1341822975 875246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1341823011 808878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IDE adapter didn't really have places for mounting screws. Though it *is* vaguely in the place where a regular 3.5" disk would go in the chassis. < 1341823053 814528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1341823080 177012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/8G/16G/ apparently. < 1341823111 206023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1341823125 307038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is what you run your irc client on? < 1341823128 357773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about logs? < 1341823137 576404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :an nfs mount to a more capable computer? < 1341823143 313174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* < 1341823202 495394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a cron job that one-way rsyncs the logs every now and then when the more capable computer (my regular desktop box) happens to be on. Technically I could be removing local copies of old logs, but haven't had to, yet. < 1341823224 596891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 748M of them at the moment. < 1341823265 346608 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They start from 2009-03 when I switched to the current bouncer. Things older than that are elsewhere.) < 1341823291 260442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, there's one more complication, but it might be outside the scope of this discussion. Or, well... < 1341823316 960664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit worried about the write cycles of the CF card, I have no idea if those do any very sophisticated wear balancing like real SSDs nowadays. < 1341823332 269681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I have 850 MB of xz compressed logs since when I started logging < 1341823386 363458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've got the actual logging on a tmpfs that only holds current month's logs, and every three hours or so I batch-update new lines in those to the on-the-CF-card copies. < 1341823414 601426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1341823418 367274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the tempfs? < 1341823432 646060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to save on the flash memory? < 1341823455 494265 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1341823469 988426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might not really be necessary, but I was sort of worried. < 1341823492 371203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1341823493 799242 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've tried to put most of the often-changing files on tmpfs like that.) < 1341823495 696414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this month: 881 MB uncompressed logs < 1341823513 375895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a bit much < 1341823540 724932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This month: 13M, uncompressed. My channels are obviously less noisy. < 1341823541 54860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it is two months. Seems the cron script didn't run to rotate it this month since the computer was off due to a thunderstorm < 1341823553 273854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I hate cron < 1341823583 751669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :57M for 2012-0[67]. < 1341823708 391492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs find . -iname '*.log' -print0 | xargs -0 -n4 -P2 xz -z < 1341823735 540199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should set up automatic compressing after rotating) < 1341823740 577307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of N900, there's been a bit of a buzz in that a Finnish startup called Jolla, made mostly of ex-Nokians, said publicly they're going to make a new Meego/Mer smartphone. So maybe it's not an entirely dead platform quite yet. (Of course so far they're just *saying* that.) < 1341823750 830399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1341823774 112512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, n900 didn't sell terribly well did it? < 1341823811 318047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that meego is entirely dead, but there might be people intending to revive it < 1341823829 388453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, and neither did the actual Meego phone (N9), but it's not entirely obvious it's because of bad technology instead of other matters. < 1341823834 304700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so we might get an undead phone? Awesome < 1341823857 89399 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, after reviving it will be alive < 1341823866 735498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1341823870 840906 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1341823883 637505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, N9 had terrible battery time as well? < 1341823903 698354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall that, but it's certainly possible. < 1341823926 456498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new phone actually has way better battery time than I expected. I watched youtube videos over wlan with it recently for maybe 5 hours, only drained down to 85% charge (from full charge before) < 1341823991 60800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Nokia N9 has a BV-5JW 3.7V 1450mAh battery. According to Nokia, this provides from 7h to 11h of continuous talk time, from 16 to 19.5 days of standby, 4.5h of video playback and up to 50h of music playback." Well, going purely on the specs, it's not good, but maybe not quite "terrible" either. Anyway, new phone would presumably mean new hardware, too. < 1341824046 687412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems my phone has a 2100 mAh battery < 1341824062 543250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :N9's primary problem (I think) was that they didn't really *sell* it anywhere. I mean, it wasn't released in the US (not such a big surprise), but not in "UK, the Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, and others" either. < 1341824078 139275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1341824097 420370 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone only has a 1250mAh battery < 1341824140 579262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1320 mAh BL-5J on the N900. < 1341824156 191246 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how does this translate to mWh, which is what ACPI on my laptop reports: < 1341824160 545534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :design capacity: 51830 mWh < 1341824160 744610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :last full capacity: 48720 mWh < 1341824178 89175 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you multiply by the volts, I think < 1341824194 442149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mWh or the mAh? < 1341824203 44531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :design voltage: 10800 mV < 1341824205 195240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :A*V = W < 1341824219 974772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, shouldn't I divide by the voltage then? < 1341824233 967158 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on which number you do it on < 1341824236 259413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the h bit change that < 1341824253 851123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well I don't know the voltage on my phone, so lets translate the laptop to mAh < 1341824267 824996 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wh is a better comparison though < 1341824274 652946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1341824300 789770 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :50Wh, 11V, that's about 5Ah < 1341824301 784035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I guess ARM doesn't use ACPI < 1341824312 150937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, thanks < 1341824347 848656 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like the use of Ah and Wh < 1341824356 389450 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just big numbers of C and J < 1341824360 297442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh the phone adb shell seems to believe my terminal is 80 columns wide < 1341824371 993328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is the path is like 70 chars wide < 1341824386 648014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, I agree < 1341824387 645822 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try setting $COLUMNS? < 1341824402 939460 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or sending the shell process a SIGWINCH? < 1341824415 547061 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know the context, nor what adb is, but whatever < 1341824417 772362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1341824426 242780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, adb = android debug bridge < 1341824440 11563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, it is used when developing for android. In this case I ran adb shell < 1341824450 247340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I ran a shell on my phone over the usb cable to it < 1341824498 729497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who bother meddling around with N900 development generally just do USB networking and SSH in over that. < 1341824509 659469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, USB networking? < 1341824536 446223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do networking over usb? < 1341824539 519201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a standard? < 1341824542 706973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1341824546 814633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew you could do ethernet over firewire < 1341824549 534784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usb? < 1341824588 6486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1341824592 738271 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the batt_vol_* files are relevant for the phone. However all but one just returns N/A. the one that doesn't just blocks < 1341824598 383299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in /sys/devices/platform/samsung-battery/power_supply/battery) < 1341824610 259290 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, given that you can do networking over RS232, I think it'd be pretty remiss of USB not to support the same thing < 1341824620 759506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll need a special sort of a cable to do USB networking for two "hosts", though. < 1341824635 949172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the phone is normally... the opposite of a host, I forget which term the USB folks use. < 1341824641 524650 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB over ethernet is standardized < 1341824643 29635 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I hope you're not suggesting the use of a double-A-jack cable? < 1341824644 696023 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er < 1341824648 105308 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethernet over USB < 1341824667 161256 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found ago a couple of years ago when I plugged my phone into my laptop and found a network interface called "usb0" < 1341824668 635503 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB /always/ has a master and a slave < 1341824670 686939 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :them's the rules < 1341824671 680645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of special sorts of cables, I should get an USB on the go cable < 1341824678 290223 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Great. Good work brain < 1341824679 894008 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :found out* < 1341824692 807546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I read, for an android phone my phone has exceptionally good USB support < 1341824712 615164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: No, they make cables with electronics on it to make that sort of stuff properly work. < 1341824712 876850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone hooked up an xbox controller to the same model and got it working for example < 1341824723 786304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it PS3? < 1341824725 474528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1341824730 509740 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a cable anymore in that case. < 1341824737 618624 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a device that appears as a slave to two hosts at the same time. < 1341824740 866213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's arguable. < 1341824750 399134 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it might look like a cable < 1341824756 200817 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chips can fit inside the plugs these days < 1341824760 2978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it quacks like a duck... < 1341824771 112290 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from a USB viewpoint it's a device. < 1341824776 995209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1341824779 558019 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it quacks like a duck when your system sees it < 1341824784 213954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone want to do that though? < 1341824786 719434 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a slave device, from both ends < 1341824807 122170 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really it's a "router" that's a USB slave to two hosts < 1341824814 786277 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feels dirty somehow < 1341824816 453960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I found ago a couple of years ago when I plugged my phone into my laptop and found a network interface called "usb0" <-- what sort of phone was that? < 1341824823 778096 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nokia N900 < 1341824827 220681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341824829 948143 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as though the router should be the host and the PCs the slave < 1341824836 560486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that just network sharing over usb? < 1341824844 884851 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it can be used for that < 1341824852 869938 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a proper network interface < 1341824857 219612 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifconfig away and do whatever you want with it. < 1341824880 479527 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 3G sharing it offers PPP over USB serial though < 1341824892 684318 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the stripped down kernel on it doesn't even have iptables < 1341824894 794553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ethernet stuffs are in the "CDC" communications device class USB standard bits. So yes, it's just a standard way to pass Ethernet frames over USB. < 1341824904 257514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I get an usb0 when I enable tethering with usb on my phone < 1341824905 907446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1341824930 989683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I rooted my phone I decided to take a look at iptables < 1341824932 759174 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one way to do connection sharing if your phone can do it, I could never be bothered to replace the kernel on mine with one with iptables < 1341824940 79679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose some phones might use that by default for network sharing. < 1341824941 721343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that probably all ICS devices have iptables < 1341824952 416649 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...at once point I was writing some kind of custom pipe thing to get interwebs over there without iptables < 1341824955 485535 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1341824955 684335 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it does the "network usage per app" thing that is new in ICS by iptables rules < 1341824974 797130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you get a /dev/ttyUSBx device too, or just the usb0 interface? < 1341824976 179194 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually found out you could just use PPP. Somehow I was under the misconception that PPP would take over the phone's 3G modem entirely and the phone itself wouldn't be able to use it < 1341824981 923340 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what it did with GPRS on my old phone) < 1341824985 719987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sec, will turn the thing on again < 1341825001 764514 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently the modem supports multiple users at the same time, or the phone emulates PPP and talks to the modem by itself < 1341825013 313358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: I think the latter. < 1341825022 659079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no /dev/ttyUSB* < 1341825023 59250 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too < 1341825036 633739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could check whether you get pppd processes around when you share interwebs like that. < 1341825045 620427 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or well PPP and AT commands and all that < 1341825054 643265 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really need to share interwebs with it anymore. < 1341825055 857066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on the phone? < 1341825061 673500 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a laptop with built-in 3G < 1341825086 275156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1341825099 180861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the N900 do sharing by acting as a wifi AP too? < 1341825108 813390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, IIRC. < 1341825112 375855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never tried it, though. < 1341825118 919924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably not out-of-the-box. < 1341825130 172111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to work better than sharing by bluetooth on this phone. I used to use sharing by bluetooth on my old dumb-phone nokia. < 1341825152 124040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least for an ad-hoc network. < 1341825160 572511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure the driver/hardware can do a regular AP. < 1341825178 783096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341825209 123983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't investigated, really. < 1341825214 16502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is an option for wifi direct in this menu too, whatever that is < 1341825256 362955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a DLNA option, again no clue what it is. says "share your media files with nearby devices via DLNA" though < 1341825276 343073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also some options for NFC in that menu < 1341825300 332240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway does the n900 have a front facing camera? < 1341825303 682162 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can be put in AP mode < 1341825309 540365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but it's horrible. < 1341825311 863727 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as there's no iptables, you need extra software to do routing... < 1341825312 781487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1341825316 412778 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quality-wise, that is. < 1341825320 402014 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only used it in ad-hoc mode myself < 1341825338 277850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, samsung actually came up with a cool idea for it. To detect if you are looking at the phone, and if so delay the screen timeout < 1341825344 498773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually works surprisingly well < 1341825360 631012 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The front camera is actually pretty good on the N900 < 1341825365 335623 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...as an entropy source for RNGs < 1341825378 437519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose anyone expects good quality out of those, and it only does 640x480 anyway, but even given that the N900 camera is quite bad. (Also AFAIK depends a bit on the hardware revision, or so I've read.) < 1341825382 345248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work in a totally dark room, or if you look at the phone at too much of an angle < 1341825388 730826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that, it works pretty well < 1341825397 887442 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware revision? < 1341825405 698795 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some software said the picture quality depends on *software* revision lol < 1341825409 340016 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the hell would that even happen < 1341825418 256495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :different firmware? < 1341825428 524883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my front facing camera does more than that < 1341825432 995688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find the resolution for it < 1341825462 533437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1.9 MP, 720p@30fps", not sure about the resolution < 1341825505 134182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x960 seems to be standard for front facing camera, and 1392x1392 is max < 1341825514 83002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :curious with a square camera < 1341825533 84238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the back camera does 3264x2448 < 1341825541 846482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1280x720 is the "standard" 720p square-pixel size. < 1341825553 5573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess they wanted the resolution to be > than that. < 1341825553 552300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341825558 916701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1341825566 834940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess maybe for the anti-shake feature < 1341825570 908823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want a bit of leeway < 1341825591 670065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I doubt it has a physical anti-shake (like my Minolta Dimage A2 does) < 1341825617 368253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can hear the anti-shake motor when you take an exposure with that option turned on) < 1341825631 19503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daily trivia: you can make the N-gage get its internet connection via a computer (not terribly useful in general, but maybe in a specific situation) if you do a really terrible kludge. I've forgotten the details, but it involved DNS trickery to add a custom nonstandard TLD that it checks for. < 1341825656 963000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1341825659 114960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's related to what PC Suite does normally to speak with the phone. < 1341825757 915578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe 720x1280 is the phone screen resolution on my phone btw < 1341825768 325194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it is pentile < 1341825806 208716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dpi is high enough that you can't really notice that the screen is pentile though < 1341825854 977012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also sub-pixel hinting for pentile must be a nightmare to program, since it would depend on the exact location on the screen to a much larger degree than on a normal RGB TFT < 1341825911 31333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the N9 screen had one of those RGBG things too. < 1341825933 435623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the DPI on that thing? < 1341825963 775512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I mentioned this before, but it's funny how camera resolutions always count individual subpixels, while display resolutions (this far, anyway) have tended to report the number of actual RGB pixels. < 1341825996 480274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something smaller, since it had a 854x480 screen. < 1341826026 390623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it isn't exactly RGBG though, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nexus_one_screen_microscope.jpg (not the same phone, and I believe the exact arrangement is different on my phone) < 1341826097 44049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a matter of how you look at it. I mean, it's not the usual Bayer pattern "RGBG", but it does have twice as much green than R or B. < 1341826117 396075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1341826561 147880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I think I wondered out loud before: I wonder if there are digital cameras where, if you shoot non-raw and select a black-and-white mode, it makes the resulting image by doing something more black-and-white oriented on the subpixels, as opposed to just applying the same interpolation it would use for a color image and then weighted-summing the R, G and B channels. < 1341826585 804840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly something that would get mentioned on the manual, perhaps. < 1341827884 870063 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1341828066 231044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is an issue with doing that, in that not all those subpixels are sensitive to all the light < 1341828090 394573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to colour filters or whatever < 1341828105 553619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are however black-and-white digital cameras < 1341828387 69431 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1341828426 886910 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1341828677 686231 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1341829011 663658 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341830172 343043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it'd still need some sort of interpolation. And it's possible the best kind would still do the R, G and B channel separately. I was just wondering. < 1341830204 481665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :dcraw has a no-interpolation mode for if you're actually photographing something black-and-white. < 1341830612 887325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1341832701 948349 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. < 1341832708 723911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my toNAND is a little bit bloaty :D < 1341832721 394395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, toNAND? What does that do? < 1341832724 470378 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :toNAND on p => q < 1341832725 849412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives < 1341832736 27854 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(!(!(!(!(p && p) && !(p && p)) && !(q && q)) && !(!(!(p && p) && !(p && p)) && !(q && q))) && !(!(!(!(p && p) && !(p && p)) && !(q && q)) && !(!(!(p && p) && !(p && p)) && !(q && q)))) < 1341832743 502924 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-20-28.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1341832745 917930 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-20-28.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1341832746 444433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so not flashing to NAND-style flash? < 1341832750 822448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1341832760 70220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah that seems sub-optimal < 1341832761 281798 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it transforms a term into just NAND-Terms. < 1341832780 540260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, how does it do that? < 1341832812 550053 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/BfTFj88J <- that way. < 1341832827 282263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember doing that sort of thing by hand in some electronics course at university. Forgot what the diagrams were called. Used Gray coding for the numbering of the states along the sides I remember < 1341832865 875937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, any idea what those are called? < 1341832880 940412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :shanon? < 1341832887 145228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1341832889 310710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something else < 1341832895 416261 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :de morgan? < 1341832906 397902 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :shanon is a generalization of de morgan. < 1341832908 283619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... that is a law < 1341832912 186696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnaugh < 1341832913 356028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1341832915 181116 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341832918 912884 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnaugh diagrams. < 1341832921 546141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1341832922 452811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those < 1341832925 468870 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... they can be used for simplifications. < 1341832945 570579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, and to convert to specific forms (depending on if you circle the zeros or the ones) < 1341832957 738019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something is wrong else. < 1341832960 105197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which circling yielded what type of expression < 1341832960 697346 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p || q gives me < 1341832969 804516 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(!(!(!(p && p) && !(q && q)) && !(!(p && p) && !(q && q))) && !(!(!(p && p) && !(q && q)) && !(!(p && p) && !(q && q)))) < 1341832974 589040 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is too bloat for just an or. < 1341832994 752001 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing some toNAND $ are uneccessary < 1341832995 778287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, btw I used Karnaugh diagrams at a later point once. When I was building an 7-segment display in minecraft, to figure out the mapping from BCD < 1341832996 727819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1341833009 260737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only time I ever used Karnaugh diagrams outside that course < 1341833018 619047 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :toNAND (p :| q) = toNAND (ENot (ENot ((toNAND p) :| (toNAND q)))) < 1341833023 348061 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that first toNAND is bloat. < 1341833035 682907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, what is ENot? < 1341833038 401314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ENot < 1341833039 537742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `ENot' < 1341833307 608681 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> toHuman . toNAND $ EAny 'p' :=> EAny 'q' < 1341833308 569244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!(!!(p && p) && !q)" < 1341833311 27497 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect. < 1341833329 379377 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> shortest' . reduce $ toNAND $ EAny 'p' :=> EAny 'q' < 1341833330 9861 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(8,"(p => q)",EAny 'p' :=> EAny 'q') < 1341833340 801682 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not a predefined haskell thing. < 1341833343 114991 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ENot < 1341833343 684499 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1341833370 518453 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not perfect. < 1341833373 86733 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!q is not legal. < 1341833513 358839 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!q would use a NOT-Gate instead of just NAND-Gates. < 1341833618 217862 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p => q -> !(!(!(p && p) && !(p && p)) && !(q && q)) < 1341833671 22762 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://github.com/FMNSSun/hs-experiments/blob/master/rewrite.hs#L419 < 1341834116 225427 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/X5HSlpTR <- I use it for fun ;) < 1341834765 896114 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341836987 925824 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a => (b => a) is to my surprise a tautology. < 1341838282 76346 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-101.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1341838531 420100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if a, then obviously a no matter whether b. < 1341839149 479433 :Slereah_!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-239-186.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1341839160 49986 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-193-121.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1341841241 223551 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341841943 992567 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1341842981 865458 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1341843126 170828 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1341843537 450420 :augur!~augur@206.196.187.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341843674 393501 :augur!~augur@206.196.187.130 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341843693 168962 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341843696 893633 :augur!~augur@206.196.187.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341843730 168890 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341844178 164874 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341845748 910062 :augur!~augur@206.196.187.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1341845750 93311 :augur_!~augur@206.196.187.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341846287 283529 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Notice also that this fallacy does not apply to situations where there are only two rival claims and one has already been falsified, then we may justly establish the truth of the other even if we cannot find evidence for or against it." < 1341846290 993054 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/fallacy/fallacy-list.php < 1341846322 837448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err....... I mean, I guess that's strictly speaking true, if there is in fact some situation in which there are literally only two options < 1341846345 801719 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are fallacies where people wrongly think there are only two options < 1341846347 412921 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1341846729 690784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "either X or Y" is "evidence for X" < 1341848442 135590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that follows from the law of excluded middle in a logic which include that law < 1341848453 505535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I completely misunderstood what you meant < 1341848825 121761 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341849486 50603 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1341851234 336001 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The Ãœnicode lookup channel | Individuals guilty of ruining this channel: itidus21 (ex officio), oerjan (ex cathedra), olsner (k ex), others (see /names) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1341853248 496208 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341853709 88090 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341856627 590889 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-20-28.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1341856863 462425 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341856866 370465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1341857307 634566 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1341857581 128849 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-193-121.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341857608 986136 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-193-121.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1341857652 864450 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1341857956 97882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, hi < 1341857970 697891 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it right to say that, in Haskell, if you have f :: (), there are two possibilities for it, f = () and f = f? < 1341857990 258248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1341857997 83278 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :define:bbiab < 1341858001 850931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back in a bit < 1341858009 299498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Sgeo < 1341858013 634193 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think f = _|_ is a clearer way of putting it < 1341858015 691657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome < 1341858023 988381 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works too < 1341858045 838236 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say there's two possibilities, but only one possible value. Is that right? < 1341858060 71305 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me about terminology < 1341858063 751487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = () is the only fully defined possibility, but f = f and f = undefined and f = error "42" are other possibilities < 1341858080 175639 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would also say there is only one possible value. < 1341858109 815313 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to teach myself, for fun, without the use of any tutorial, how to write a compiler < 1341858119 510322 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 0x10c's DCPU as the target platform. < 1341858125 830168 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've picked a bad language to compile < 1341858156 710972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't mention the language. Or was it Haskell? < 1341858171 234052 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's Haskell < 1341858196 29685 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm trying to do way too much in compile-time < 1341858203 783325 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, thirsty < 1341858221 248486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...........I wonder if the thing that ais523 and I proved is provable with Coq < 1341858231 56131 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Trying to do too much in compile-time? No, you are not. < 1341858264 699162 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Trying to do too much in compile-time you are not. < 1341858284 126494 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1341858291 653061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is against the rules of Haskell for the compiler to assume f :: () implies f = () but it is OK for Ibtlfmm compiler (but not an interpreter) to assume that. < 1341858344 431407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, it's Haskell <-- trying to compile haskell? you crazy? < 1341858349 98643 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I created my own language (I've done it before, heh, otherwise I'd be ashamed to be on this channel), then create a Haskell to that language compiler, that would be easier < 1341858375 269516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could compile something simpler, that's what most people do, I'd say. < 1341858456 577940 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps MIBBLLII? < 1341858473 913642 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I mad? < 1341858495 346744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're dead-set to compile something lazy and as different from the resulting machine code that is physically possible? < 1341858515 875926 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIBBLLII isn't necessarily lazy < 1341858521 795641 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes < 1341858533 202960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile LLVM < 1341858546 442999 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure I mayswell dive in at the deep end and try not to drown < 1341858607 493371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to walking from the shallow end towards the deep end and testing the whole drowning thing a little more safely. Well, sure. < 1341858631 385650 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing as this, for now, is but a hobby. < 1341858665 296366 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For gods' sake, I'm writing a compiler for a platform that is from an unreleased video game! < 1341858689 615796 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one from minecraft's creator? < 1341858710 921236 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the one < 1341858746 36998 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, when I type "p" in chrome, the top result is the spec for the DCPU < 1341858758 393266 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second is "prime factors of 421" < 1341858764 994365 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, it's prime in of itself < 1341858775 951258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's personalized for you. < 1341858794 91626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"P-magazine | Elke dinsdag het vuur aan de lont!" is my current top result. < 1341858800 769893 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate it to be personalised for someone else < 1341858855 757675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uitgeverij P poëzie kunst geschiedenis creatief leuven" is #2. < 1341858882 242593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what any of that means. < 1341858903 933454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, UPDATE < 1341858926 457301 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about a publisher of poetry, art, something and creative living < 1341858926 658791 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT HAPPENED TO HIATUS < 1341858936 227559 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guessing) < 1341858955 177767 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, dutch - how hard can it be? < 1341859098 17459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, was going to be an update on 11th or before < 1341859108 244475 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiatus presumably back on, waiting for EoA6A3 < 1341859122 14044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think 'leuven' is about living. Google Translate translates it as "slots", but in this case it's probably just the name of this city maybe. < 1341859124 836250 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb again < 1341859136 435318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dutch so far has been rather easy to decode, that's true. < 1341859166 986224 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dutch is just English with a funny accent. < 1341859183 473151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a bit of German in there. Or is that just more English with a different accent? < 1341859207 247261 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an english/german/scandinavian hybrid < 1341859228 453733 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's equally similar to every language in the world < 1341859253 697664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I think geschiedenis means separate < 1341859261 523076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pickpocket is "zakkenroller", a warning about them loops in some of the trains. < 1341859399 116074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1341859407 13053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice word < 1341859429 129871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : for some reason I think geschiedenis means separate <-- does it though? < 1341859448 737935 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kobold has zakkenrolled a potion from you. < 1341859450 218857 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one guess and suddenly I'm the authority on dutch? < 1341859467 5949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, sure < 1341859486 647515 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I didn't even notice the additional pages < 1341859487 939868 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, it does mean that and I know because I'm the dutchmaster < 1341859553 868139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it < 1341859566 253976 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1341859629 871705 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341859726 448388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm heat exchangers installed for heating the house during winter are suboptimal when used to cool. The first floor is now frigid and the upper floor is still as hot as before. Oh well < 1341859873 884232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why am I not super-tired, I only managed to sleep like 2.5 hours during the night (I hate loud seagulls), and I was up all day yesterday, and today. < 1341859930 358675 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1341859962 32211 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo... that update... < 1341859988 465644 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1341860009 328376 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First I don't notice the ==> < 1341860016 113008 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, page 7150 breaks my browser < 1341860029 255112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, update to what? < 1341860036 722172 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Homestuck < 1341860041 65954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1341860234 248315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7150, if I had an iPhone, I'd want that as my wallpaper < 1341860445 475272 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7138 is taking so long to load < 1341860554 123680 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have got in before everybody else noticed < 1341860557 178903 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Sgeo < 1341860561 100622 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about? < 1341860573 452265 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck < 1341860596 560193 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the most esoteric web media projects out there (it's not a webcomic anymore.) < 1341860648 67274 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK that entrance sequence still wasn't as good as the 2nd through 4th but it was close. < 1341860712 957247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, what is it then? < 1341860721 44460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I haven't been keeping up with it < 1341860722 88845 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a web media project, duh. < 1341860723 26739 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A web multimedia project < 1341860739 268793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it used to have the occasional flash every now and then before too? < 1341860755 58847 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It encompasses webcomics, music, short video games, pseudo-interactive fiction, and others < 1341860784 358092 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god red dwarf references!!! < 1341860876 918167 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-193-121.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1341860899 215410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, what the hell is up with mediafire today, this 91 MB download has been running for 3 hours, with another hour estimated to go < 1341860900 203718 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :red dwarf references!? where !? < 1341860912 617671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what is red dwarf? < 1341860919 26588 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, fuck off < 1341860923 351 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what are you downloading from mediafire? < 1341860923 421933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1341860923 948937 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, homestuck < 1341860952 1763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, a zip file < 1341860975 305466 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Red Dwarf was a sci-fi TV series. < 1341860978 725048 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a kind of star < 1341860982 255809 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is it amateur porn you got linked from 4chan or something? < 1341860986 122539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I know the latter meaning < 1341860992 611904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, no it is a boring android related thingy < 1341861003 11122 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: boring < 1341861023 226426 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amateur android porn? < 1341861030 128127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome < 1341861103 603372 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the androids are not paid to be androids, ofc) < 1341861130 766053 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ok this is now my joint third favourite entrance sequence < 1341861251 109596 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when it reaches first < 1341861338 80177 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1341861356 144918 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot beat rose's or jade's < 1341861379 904587 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not rose's because it represents my single favourite point in homestuck < 1341861401 367131 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean it's my favourite < 1341861414 741875 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry you are wrong < 1341861415 290809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not here to enforce my opinions. < 1341861429 183089 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also almost wrote "here" twice in that sentence < 1341861431 476529 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, they're so wrong < 1341862204 90500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1341862440 779229 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-101.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1341862566 856663 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever document I have written in TeX, you should be able to compile them on any computer having TeX even in future and even in past, since it is the same TeX everywhere. < 1341862644 555405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1341862645 154588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX: the original programming language. that xkcd about the universe being written in perl and lisp was just propaganda. < 1341862692 884527 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it might not necessarily work if you use one of the programs other than "tex" (such as "pdftex", "latex", etc). < 1341862935 581326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the X and Y types I have written about yesterday, I have called Decompose and Recompose. < 1341863019 686464 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made those and other things available in "for-free" package. < 1341863252 442515 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, but TeX was written in WEB, and Don Knuth himself is actually written in XSLT (yeah, I was shocked too) < 1341863288 605560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1341863342 240068 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's XSLT written in? (dun dun DUN) < 1341863350 493149 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicorns. < 1341863373 191609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:23:38: toNAND (p :| q) = toNAND (ENot (ENot ((toNAND p) :| (toNAND q)))) < 1341863376 292652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:23:43: ^- that first toNAND is bloat. < 1341863413 153063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with toNAND (p :| q) = toNAND (ENot (ENot p :& Enot q)) < 1341863438 337096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341863448 334160 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1341863449 635700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1341863462 963541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: ^ < 1341863473 110160 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1341863479 733356 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking aloud < 1341863490 703369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i wasn't talking to you < 1341863510 581603 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misparsed your caret < 1341863517 251730 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix (\r a -> if a == 0 then 1 else r (a - 1)) < 1341863518 517777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a t. (Num a, Num t) => a -> t < 1341863529 598410 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\r a -> if a == 0 then 1 else r (a - 1)) 10 < 1341863531 1759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1341863539 183080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\r a -> if a == 0 then 1 else a * r (a - 1)) 10 < 1341863540 484473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3628800 < 1341863565 568588 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl fix (\r a -> if a == 0 then 1 else a * r (a - 1)) < 1341863565 767762 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix (ap (flip if' 1 . (0 ==)) . ap (*) . (. subtract 1)) < 1341863573 904843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid ugly code < 1341863586 333361 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But pointless recursive factorial! < 1341863595 474986 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :some combination of fix and zip`ap`tail should work < 1341863606 270041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip `ap` tail < 1341863607 758804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [(b, b)] < 1341863620 388157 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Now write a recursive factorial in Eniuq < 1341863626 396873 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith (*) `ap` tail < 1341863626 595579 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zip `ap` tail $ [1,2,3] < 1341863628 180638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,2),(2,3)] < 1341863628 720618 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => [a] -> [a] < 1341863644 802250 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, I know not what Eniuq is < 1341863650 345120 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: May not be possible. Management accepts no liability for loss of sanity. Brains parked at owners' risk.) < 1341863655 10560 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's quine backwards, that's what it is < 1341863656 191568 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eniuq < 1341863675 15108 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my latest esolang, is what it is < 1341863689 533161 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I'm not crazy enough to be able to write programs in it < 1341863702 60721 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm crazy < 1341863705 1982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give it a go < 1341863718 226749 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me three hours to write unary.en < 1341863731 961597 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks like this: ?1-"I~1-~84*3+f!1+4*5d3**+84*3+Dk84*3+"48*2+D48*2+O`Oo < 1341863792 89943 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix$(<$>)<$>(:)<*>((<$>((:[{-odd-}])<$>))(=<<)<$>(+)<$>(+)1)$1 < 1341863793 996932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43,45,47,49,51,5... < 1341863831 240691 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gesundheit! < 1341863874 859212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the format of the ITMCK manual so far? < 1341863907 992331 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that right there is probably the most useful haskell program I've ever written) < 1341863955 202374 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, have you seen my interactive factorial program? < 1341863966 306223 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the most controversial Haskell program on Uncyclopedia < 1341863972 694272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd say there's two possibilities, but only one possible value. Is that right? <-- that is not the standard haskell view, although i recall someone starting a flame war defending your interpretation < 1341864008 265618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, I agree, there is two possibilities but only one possible value. < 1341864026 518409 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two possibilities in a practical sense, one value in a theoretical sense < 1341864027 605487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there are more than two possibilities. < 1341864055 797967 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring any output to stderr < 1341864059 122530 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I think I have not, where is it? < 1341864066 40816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no, there are >= 2 values in the theoretical sense. haskell uses denotational semantics. < 1341864074 363600 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Haskell < 1341864081 726749 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you might have error "42" or error "I AM ERROR" or unsafePerformIO (putStrLn "Hello, World!") or a bunch of other possible stuff. < 1341864120 903483 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :" the Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphism section is outdated and wrong. The real code is ..." :D < 1341864122 34784 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the only proper value would be f = () < 1341864153 673348 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh, the one with all the <*> and unsafeCoerces? < 1341864157 687411 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1341864165 788501 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works, but takes ages for bigger numbers < 1341864170 837780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shouldn't be shocked about zzo38 not accepting the standard view of haskell. < 1341864172 958604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seem to me that it is like the SK combinators < 1341864175 760728 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where bigger means more than about 8 or 9 < 1341864185 572051 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that is EXACTLY how it works < 1341864223 436100 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I initially wrote it in SKI, then translated and fixed compily errors < 1341864283 833688 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Christopher Eccleston is on < 1341864288 450503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is what it looks like to me. < 1341864337 395498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three pures, one (<*>), and the only print each have an explicit type signature < 1341864406 430941 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because the unsafeCoerces confues GHC, and presumably every other Haskell compiler < 1341864438 262064 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a couple of unsafeCoerces can be replaced by id < 1341864456 291964 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably have a few unnecessary parens there, have you tried minimizing them? < 1341864483 597465 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was an earlier version, I'm not sure where the final one has got to < 1341864507 843101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I did < 1341864650 853388 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1341864975 337136 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ITMCK? < 1341865079 734483 :augur_!~augur@206.196.187.130 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341865087 430729 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That wont work. < 1341865095 425891 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p might be an expression containing another or ;) < 1341865100 873575 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I already fixed it. < 1341865106 131890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: http://repo.or.cz/w/ITMCK.git https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/itmck are two webpages with information. < 1341865112 841445 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also added support for xor < 1341865118 543264 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noImplication, noEqu, noXor < 1341865125 132861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can send the files directly too if you want specific files. < 1341865130 109420 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that (((a == b) ^^ c) => d) (^^ is xor) < 1341865132 814631 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :translates to < 1341865140 726454 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!((!!((!a && b) || (a && !b)) && c) || (!((!a && b) || (a && !b)) && !c)) || d) < 1341865144 734529 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't noEqu Xor? < 1341865154 662186 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :noEqu uses xor, yes. < 1341865156 352709 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1341865160 49177 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :xnor to be specific. < 1341865178 631686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell you can use /= for boolean XOR. < 1341865197 921959 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it directly translates to what noXor would. < 1341865201 560207 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR is 0110; XNOR is 1001. XNOR is what I'd call Equ using your convention < 1341865203 385352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> toHuman . noEqu $ EAny 'a' := EAny 'b' < 1341865204 388805 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"!((!a && b) || (a && !b))" < 1341865223 954380 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah! how come gedit doesn't have a syntax highlighting option for TeX (only LaTeX) yet it has highlighters for shit like "Literate Haskell"? < 1341865233 93746 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still the biggest issue is toNAND :( < 1341865234 418740 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished Deus Ex. < 1341865242 250028 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> toHuman . toNAND . noEqu $ EAny 'a' := EAny 'b' < 1341865243 1899 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(!(!(!(!(a && a) && b) && !(!(a && a) && b)) && !(!(!(a && a) && b) && !(!(a && a) && b))) && !(!(!(a && !(b && b)) && !(a && !(b && b))) && !(!(a && !(b && b)) && !(a && !(b && b)))))" < 1341865250 385214 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks way too bloat :D < 1341865261 216626 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, I read that is Finnish Deus Ex, as the reason to soundnfury's moan < 1341865268 960431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: I don't know. But it is possible for the syntax in a TeX file to change part way through due to category codes, so it may not work extremely well < 1341865320 774836 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> shortest' . reduce . toNAND . noEqu $ EAny 'a' := EAny 'b' < 1341865321 591159 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(8,"(a == b)",EAny 'a' := EAny 'b') < 1341865334 342023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- but it's cleary a valid and equivalent only-nand logic expression :) < 1341865352 293048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For things such as literate Haskell, you just need to find the line with > at front and highlight everything else on that line as a Haskell code, and then highlight the rest using a different syntax highlighter (which could be the plain text highligher). < 1341865372 375780 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However literate Haskell codes can also have \begin{code} \end{code} so you would highlight those too. < 1341865380 935657 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but my question is, what kind of pervert uses Literate Haskell? < 1341865389 36022 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's plaintext dyed blue, iirc. Haddock docs are green, maybe? < 1341865391 105533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :< mroman> p might be an expression containing another or ;) <-- i don't see the problem. < 1341865399 63517 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1341865400 497063 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: I sometimes use it. < 1341865400 695269 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1341865402 381068 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, about half the haskell users in this channel < 1341865412 932988 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's useful for blogging etc < 1341865413 847165 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: An or is not a NAND. < 1341865418 480147 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not like haskell, had you guessed? < 1341865433 628934 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like Haskell that is OK you do not have to use it. < 1341865433 850539 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get out. (jk) < 1341865436 662184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is, to translate a logic expression to NAND so that < 1341865448 1646 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build it as a digital circuit only using NAND Gates. < 1341865449 643013 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still not here to force my opinions on people) < 1341865461 398153 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, but I have to read it all the time in this channel ;P < 1341865469 668086 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell you what < 1341865469 866784 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means: No or, no not... only NAND. < 1341865479 430220 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was what made me learn it, soundnfury < 1341865486 793727 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time someone posts a Haskell code snippet, I'll post some Z80 m/c < 1341865487 791355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!a is !(a && a) for example. < 1341865490 566610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That and I sucked at Python < 1341865498 571414 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because !a is not NAND-only. < 1341865505 875472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK post some Z80 m/c if you have something to write about it < 1341865525 366231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: Do you like ITMCK? Do you like TeX? Do you like LLVM? < 1341865548 970589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: An or is not a NAND. <-- you noted that my expression says to reapply toNand to everything, right? < 1341865590 942728 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :toNAND (p :| q) = toNAND (ENot (ENot p :& Enot q)) does not apply toNAND to p or q < 1341865598 963056 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nor < 1341865599 161868 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net TOPIC #esoteric :The Ünicode lookup channel | Individuals guilty of ruining this channel: itidus21 (ex officio), oerjan (ex cathedra), olsner (k ex), ion (deus ex), others (see /names) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1341865599 807990 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Dunno about ITMCK, I prefer beeper audio demos though chiptune is nice too. SIDs suck though. < 1341865624 535061 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly do like TeX, although I'd write a program manual in either XHTML or (better) troff -man < 1341865629 450207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like PPMCK? < 1341865635 296832 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1341865640 256588 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never heard of PPMCK before today < 1341865646 847092 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know almost nothing about LLVM < 1341865666 599431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPMCK is a program to create .NSF musics < 1341865668 551253 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p || q -> !(!p :& !q) is not NAND only. < 1341865688 790464 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSF := "Not So Fast!" < 1341865694 46688 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I'm using toNAND (p :| q) = (ENot $ toNAND (ENot ((toNAND p) :| (toNAND q)))) < 1341865706 669236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes it does, it should become ENot (toNAND (ENot p) :& toNAND (ENot q)) in the next step < 1341865708 438739 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses! foiled again! < 1341865713 666465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NSF musics is musics for NES/Famicom. < 1341865714 335810 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1341865717 451893 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that. < 1341865733 134856 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is more in the Spectrum scene < 1341865744 722714 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :never learned much about the Famicom < 1341865752 750867 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the "Famichord" < 1341865810 36537 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: about you spectrum lisp implementation. why wouldn't (lambda (args) (foo)) work instead of (lambda arg (foo))? < 1341865846 813676 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, um, because that would be hard < 1341865871 681686 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could go ((lambda arg (foo)) (args...)) < 1341865878 982236 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. you can pass a list as the argument < 1341865892 94784 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then (foo) has to extract the individual arguments from that < 1341865915 295590 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Still pretty bloat :) < 1341865953 73401 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/LeaJjhFp <- output of that. < 1341865953 845020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well there are limits, iirc xor and equ are bloated when expressed in nand < 1341865963 347793 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: Have you written any music? < 1341865990 730355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's also bloat because I only allow binary :& < 1341866003 622739 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life you have nand gates with more than just two inputs. < 1341866025 872336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1341866113 946561 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's broken :( < 1341866147 755690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um are you sure you gave the right paste? < 1341866212 857038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :toNAND (p :| q) = toNAND $ (ENot $ toNAND (ENot p :| q)) is definitely wrong < 1341866244 202373 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1341866268 415608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last ENot only affects the p < 1341866275 48112 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah. < 1341866324 753354 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :your suggestion is < 1341866327 117000 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :toNAND (p :| q) = (ENot $ toNAND (ENot p :| ENot q)) < 1341866343 121521 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if toNAND returns something in the form of ENot (...)? < 1341866344 441722 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1341866349 594718 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you got ENot $ ENot $ < 1341866353 649620 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whis is not NAND-only. < 1341866356 168508 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*which < 1341866372 282317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my suggestion is toNAND (p :| q) = Enot $ toNAND (Enot p) :& toNAND (Enot q) < 1341866387 321665 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ENot < 1341866422 887814 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1341866430 377019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| is wrong anyway :D < 1341866469 141729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just about applying deMorgan's law in the right places, really < 1341866504 74159 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1341866563 593847 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you mean chiptune, or in general? < 1341866568 504867 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still gets bloated way out of proportion :) < 1341866589 648438 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's most certainly due to the binary and. < 1341866591 632365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as just a simple < 1341866594 727783 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!(a && b) && c) < 1341866605 429010 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets bloated too !(!(!(a && b) && c) && !(!(a && b) && c)) < 1341866626 98163 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now If you add a && d < 1341866628 288360 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get < 1341866636 357452 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(!(!(!(!(a && b) && c) && !(!(a && b) && c)) && d) && !(!(!(!(a && b) && c) && !(!(a && b) && c)) && d)) < 1341866641 249409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: In general (but including chiptune too) < 1341866654 169898 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, there's a page on my site < 1341866670 131609 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's good enough for now. < 1341866671 985300 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jttlov.no-ip.org/music.htm < 1341866683 581979 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as it guarantees that the term only contains NAND, it does its job :) < 1341866707 278136 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chiptune-wise, I tried writing some AY music with SoundTracker about 5 years ago, but most of it was shoite :) < 1341866802 574473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is AY music and SoundTracker? < 1341866818 370699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow non-binary NAND, then ENot becomes just a single-argument NAND < 1341866856 782692 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: AY == General Instruments AY-3-8912 < 1341866869 541997 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sound chip in the 128k ZX Spectrum < 1341866888 752533 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SoundTracker was a piece of Speccy software for writing AY tunes < 1341866898 278017 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can probably find on World of Spectrum < 1341866977 573866 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That would require too much code change < 1341866987 123184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then EBool :& EBool is no longer usable. < 1341867009 907424 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but toNAND was actually not my intended goal. < 1341867015 92866 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a side experiment. < 1341867021 573028 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm going to leave it there. < 1341867026 452796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1341867107 477529 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1341867160 176909 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341867168 287035 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1341867172 166147 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1341867225 175132 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341867400 104322 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight, guys < 1341867401 614687 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1341867426 985794 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should remove rules changing stuff to implication or xor :) < 1341867462 532357 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p xor q is smaller than (!p && q) || (p && !q) but it pretty much < 1341867467 429206 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruins other rules after that :D < 1341867729 737805 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. now that I am making new version of my old lis.py I remember why I kinda dislike programming functionaly in python < 1341867753 21255 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1341867775 728104 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1341868005 325335 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reasons it the fucking ternary if. whose idea was to make it have syntax (if_true if condition else if_false) < 1341868085 385493 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1341868506 328547 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they should have used a nice sensible condition?yes:no like C < 1341868524 115259 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "don't do unless not or die()", like perl :P < 1341868558 448476 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1341868562 735302 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1341868566 632089 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perl < 1341868588 305618 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does in fact have an "unless" statement < 1341868612 914912 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: a if b else c is pretty cool. < 1341868615 668397 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally lets you put conditions before, after, or in compromising acts with statements < 1341868660 248273 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: a, b and c refer to what in that expression < 1341868721 378402 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe forth like condition if if_true then / condition if if_true else if_false then < 1341868734 894198 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1341868740 754548 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a IF b else c < 1341868747 23540 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats pretty like an english sentence < 1341868762 797421 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: trying to be like english just gets you COBOL < 1341868767 694146 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Go home" if "it rains" else "stay here" < 1341868771 834415 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: Good point. < 1341868775 488989 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to learn COBOL < 1341868777 759134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I failed. < 1341868790 117866 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1341868791 675223 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a damn fucking stupid language. < 1341868793 884137 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to learn COBOL is to fail < 1341868808 683961 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean srsly < 1341868814 191721 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was supposed to be easy. < 1341868822 40808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the total opposite of it. < 1341868826 8193 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worse than SQL < 1341868826 998149 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it is just bit irritating when nesting if expressions < 1341868830 243029 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coboloncogs.org/ < 1341868852 349051 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell it's worse than brainfuck. < 1341869273 89379 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually can't find the real words to describe how much it sucks. < 1341869296 964566 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried 7 minutes now. But it's not possible. < 1341869356 448217 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/real/right < 1341869458 642926 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Sgeo trying to learn cobol again < 1341869468 108242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, actually < 1341869474 533857 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1341869475 295721 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who# < 1341869493 174776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've looked at Tcl, and I know that's not really well liked. Although it's not bad like COBOL < 1341869523 173326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl is actually fairly enjoyable, if decidedly odd. < 1341869533 339286 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why id tcl not liked well? < 1341869538 710903 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Because it's odd. < 1341869558 677247 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1341869571 733668 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lisp well liked? < 1341869575 300922 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or forth? < 1341869584 130066 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth no < 1341869588 364462 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp yes. if it runs on jvm. < 1341869605 590324 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :allthough it's not called lisp anymore ;) < 1341869608 749486 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-l < 1341869623 395702 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341869636 693740 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :clojure? < 1341869645 374586 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about scheme? < 1341869663 129678 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the word "clojure" always looks faintly visceral and pornographic to me < 1341869691 687124 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to look up visceral in a dictionary? < 1341869695 715804 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it not worth it? < 1341869703 919692 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like guts and stuff < 1341869754 201371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help dict < 1341869754 786792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I perform dictionary lookups via the following 13 commands: < 1341869754 985763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all-dicts ... Query all databases on dict.org < 1341869754 986049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :devils ...... The Devil's Dictionary < 1341869754 986157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :easton ...... Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary < 1341869754 986262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elements .... Elements database < 1341869756 805342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[9 @more lines] < 1341869757 698646 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :intestines. < 1341869761 131001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dict visceral < 1341869761 845894 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported dictionary-lookup commands: < 1341869762 44836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 < 1341869762 678018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. < 1341869767 862034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1341869776 296508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn visceral < 1341869777 317837 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "visceral" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1341869777 517309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :visceral < 1341869777 517524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: relating to or affecting the viscera; "visceral < 1341869777 517632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : bleeding"; "a splanchnic nerve" [syn: {visceral}, < 1341869777 517740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {splanchnic}] < 1341869779 314958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: obtained through intuition rather than from reasoning or < 1341869781 297516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : observation [syn: {intuitive}, {nonrational}, {visceral}] < 1341869801 218854 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn viscera < 1341869801 961271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "viscera" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1341869802 378802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :viscera < 1341869802 379003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: internal organs collectively (especially those in the < 1341869802 379115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : abdominal cavity); "`viscera' is the plural form of < 1341869802 379227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `viscus'" [syn: {viscera}, {entrails}, {innards}] < 1341869805 121202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more interesting ;) < 1341869848 768842 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@devil BSD < 1341869849 167763 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: 550 invalid database, use SHOW DB for list < 1341869893 46096 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@all-dicts BSD < 1341869893 449890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "bsd" vera "V.E.R.A. -- Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms (June 2006)" < 1341869893 649198 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD < 1341869893 649399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Berkeley System / Software Distribution (manufacturer, Unix, OS) < 1341869893 649507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1341869893 649621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "bsd" vera "V.E.R.A. -- Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms (June 2006)" < 1341869895 589996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[46 @more lines] < 1341869939 885895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@jargon BSD < 1341869940 481335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "bsd" jargon "The Jargon File (version 4.4.7, 29 Dec 2003)" < 1341869940 701074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD < 1341869940 899268 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : /B?S?D/, n. < 1341869940 899462 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1341869940 899573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [abbreviation for ?Berkeley Software Distribution?] a family of {Unix} < 1341869942 681383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10 @more lines] < 1341870192 855426 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@devils BSD < 1341870193 630490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: 550 invalid database, use SHOW DB for list < 1341870237 959199 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1341870241 463395 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1341870436 472952 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1341870668 512508 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1341870812 513297 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341870966 754180 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-159.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341870967 658453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-22.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1341872604 55515 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1341872922 508603 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1341873308 122890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channel = (channelvariable-1) & 63 ; Channel is 0 based. < 1341873322 736268 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does it work like that? < 1341873412 168041 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like what? < 1341873547 221942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably some dried grapes involved, madly laughing < 1341873711 603074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapMaybe < 1341873713 483665 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1341873901 969141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t find < 1341873905 169856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Maybe a < 1341873971 978075 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t map < 1341873973 706571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1341874004 455964 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1341874248 818962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 26^5 < 1341874250 508039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11881376 < 1341875170 425535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose (Decompose g f) g = f < 1341875315 902150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works! < 1341875886 648200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolol < 1341875891 600328 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ rsync -azvX My\ Music/ quint@74.117.158.92:musics < 1341875894 85323 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending incremental file list < 1341875896 588810 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :./ < 1341875899 139794 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :02 Hornpipe.mp3 < 1341875901 605204 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write failed: Broken pipe < 1341875914 108674 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to fix a broken hornpipe? < 1341876969 432326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-140-227.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341876982 372732 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-159.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1341877759 861046 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, horn? < 1341877878 339433 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1341878266 169204 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it reasonable to want to make a non-eggdrop bot in Tcl?