< 1340669359 576029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340670704 427880 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340671623 957721 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340671773 223343 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1340671815 413804 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340671984 11999 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340672022 790570 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340672100 421955 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340672209 559727 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340672395 402610 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1340672524 393788 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340672783 543925 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340674316 407981 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340674753 596462 :augur!~augur@c-69-250-16-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340675974 126056 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340677453 557307 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :c0w < 1340678135 471940 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340678293 817317 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340678632 336224 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340678683 419030 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340679818 141313 :c0w!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1340682267 612912 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340682290 872837 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340682919 403844 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340683306 935338 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ought to be a method of payment on internet like this: You connect to some SSH and send the amount of money you want to pay to them. The server responds with the keys to a new account consisting of that amount of money moved from the original account. You communicate this securely to the recipient, who then splits off the price from the new account and approves the transaction. < 1340683466 161299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is secure, is not susceptible to homograph attacks, is not susceptible to the merchant taking more money from you than you authorized, is not susceptible to false expiry warning messages, etc. < 1340683625 882405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recipient of the money then goes to the bank or whatever and retrieves the money using the keys to the account. They do not necessarily need their own bank account or anything like that. < 1340683661 169392 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think in practice what happens is a society collectively adapts to a payment system < 1340683692 542125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weaknesses in a system get exploited and as a result of this the system gets modified < 1340683715 384221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately a system with no weaknesses is very cold and sober... very 'soviet' < 1340683739 531458 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lol ...) < 1340683824 194761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the way I have specified you do not even necessarily need to connect to the same server, since they could belong to different banks, as long as those banks have an agreement between them, or possibly indirect through a number of other banks, you can make this payment. Neither the purchaser nor the merchant needs a bank account. < 1340683886 218184 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always think deeper about these things < 1340683896 516241 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1340683909 918263 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1340683918 833332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, think about it, due to weakness that is why they would be exploited and modified but that may cause other problems, and this and that, and etc. < 1340683923 24280 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much problems is there actually with these payment systems? < 1340683930 40824 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean existing payment systems < 1340683944 711921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know no weaknesses with the system I have proposed, although there may be some. < 1340683953 534123 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the current real world systems < 1340683978 44789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Some are the problems I have described, read what I have described above you may see. < 1340684014 944538 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these problems mostly related to the internet? < 1340684063 676027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, i have never had a bank problem < 1340684076 623864 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even thouhg once i gave my bank details to a mysterious woman online < 1340684097 684991 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :she was kind for not abusing that... but i freaked out ever since < 1340684138 262930 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are related to the internet, I suppose. < 1340684171 274390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest implementing both my new system as well as the old system, and deprecating the old system. < 1340684198 834764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if a person does nothing wrong, is the bank responsible to recover the money? < 1340684384 280794 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about those kind of laws. < 1340684451 244586 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enuf < 1340684483 74199 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. < 1340684525 876580 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not own a newsletter. < 1340684582 852271 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Simpsons/Season_8#Mountain_of_Madness < 1340684859 696986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I still do not own a newsletter. < 1340684914 107030 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does bart < 1340684920 187599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i can't back that up) < 1340685288 818453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the idea that a person has a newsletter < 1340687140 562353 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: Wychodzi < 1340687705 397428 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340687984 719954 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1340689326 816634 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P I am doing my programming course work in c (instead of python) on unix v7 (instead of debian) < 1340689395 101949 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: http://www.osnews.com/story/26114/Did_Alan_Turing_really_commit_suicide_ < 1340690118 647361 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how people say "LGBT" even when talking about things which have nothing to do with the trans part of that < 1340690135 296122 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a myth that all sexual minorities are united by oppression and have the same heroes and villains < 1340690158 398764 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :==kmc < 1340690160 53823 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually a lot of gay people hate bisexuals, and a lot of gay and bisexual people are transphobic < 1340690295 414740 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf < 1340690339 357769 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just see the worst in people though < 1340690392 307927 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I genuinely don't get that. < 1340690409 401109 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I know that it's the case, I just don't understand it. < 1340690429 340917 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal open a new tab (or close all open ones) and you'll get a new start page ... restarting mini will ususally resume in the state it was before closing < 1340690429 968955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340690494 822738 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a sad fact that recently oppressed people are perfectly willing to oppress others < 1340690509 122823 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think often "LGBT" = "all those weird people so I don't forget and accidentally offend any of them" < 1340690522 328522 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job right there < 1340690549 942069 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when the USA sent freed slaves to Liberia, and they set up basically an imitation of racist Southern society < 1340690553 519914 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in some cases (racial, historically), it can even be a form of fitting in < 1340690561 227065 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Still-oppressed people do, too. < 1340690565 931879 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with American ex-slaves on top and the native africans on the bottom < 1340690590 279007 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah. these "community" labels are an easy way for politicians to pander < 1340690593 471770 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will think they'll fit in better if they join in on the hate on existing (other) minorities < 1340690615 183821 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the assumption that anyone in the USA who has ancestors from Latin America in the past 4 generations is assumed to be a single issue voter on immigration < 1340690626 794518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: And it works! < 1340690628 49924 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was actually a lot of tension between cape verdean immigrants and historical ex-slave black people in the US, for example < 1340690640 7098 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though to most outsiders, they were just "black people" < 1340690644 712545 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, say something in spanish, mumble about immigration reform, check off the "latino community" box on your card < 1340690684 768544 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: in what time period? < 1340690767 669687 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of it was in the early-to-mid 20th century, but I've forgotten most of the details from that book < 1340690805 487264 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Black-Identities-Immigrant-American-Realities/dp/0674007247 < 1340690806 785012 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :good book < 1340690857 968022 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just about cape verde < 1340690861 481763 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1340690861 836007 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there was a section on it < 1340690901 345000 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite course in undergrad was the course on racial identity / racism in the US < 1340690912 481790 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I had the book :) < 1340691239 685798 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently I just don't understand people. < 1340691348 845978 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most of racism (etc) is grounded in thinking that's supposed to keep a tribe of people together and safe from other tribes < 1340691361 622765 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's basically perfectly natural for people to hate other people < 1340691408 711832 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also deliberately encouraged by the ruling classes to keep the masses in control < 1340691436 470478 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Alas, evolution works much slower than humans. < 1340691521 590831 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make the poor people fight each other according to arbitrary divisions, then they won't join forces against you < 1340691527 141218 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, doesn't have to be something genetic (although I suppose if there's a real biological predisposition for such thinking, that would have to be genetic) < 1340691576 431540 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's *not* a biological predisposition for it, how could it possibly survive this long? < 1340691590 508810 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :traits can be hereditary without being genetic < 1340691611 496283 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, but non-genetic things mutate rather a lot faster... < 1340691835 738756 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general idea that different/unknown things are possibly dangerous (e.g. don't accept candy from strange people) is easily exploitable < 1340692787 180857 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jumping back to a previous conversation state a bit... I wonder, do bisexuals often hate homosexuals? < 1340692809 147518 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it wouldn't make any sense, but the inverse *happens* and that makes no sense. < 1340693034 480682 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think declaring that you will only sleep with men, or only sleep with women, is a bit *silly* < 1340693037 505084 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't hate anyone for it < 1340693083 354246 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just a matter of you not being on one of the extremes of the Kinsey scale, isn't it? :P < 1340693093 656591 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1340693142 343280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the kinsey scale is about my preferences, not my attitude towards other people's preferences < 1340693210 228849 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds like you interpret that ("*will* only sleep with") as a declaration of intent, rather than e.g. an observation of what someone's attracted to < 1340693234 700734 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can observe many things about who people are attracted to < 1340693256 163562 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm only attracted to redheads, but most people would not consider that a core part of my personal identity < 1340693269 77012 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if i dated someone with blonde hair, they wouldn't be like "oh my god, i thought he was only into redheads" < 1340693269 772100 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :gingerlover < 1340693276 275013 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though this is not entirely unheard of, either < 1340693307 80852 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think the labels make sense in the context of solidarity against political oppression < 1340693329 242334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I date no-one and sleep alone. < 1340693346 875371 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have the privilege to live relatively free of that oppression, then the labels are silly < 1340693357 891122 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, labels are silly < 1340693391 733943 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, nobody thinks much of someone doing something that is considered *perfectly normal*. < 1340693416 374577 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can think of some useful consequences of cutting yourself off from 50% of the dating pool < 1340693444 602219 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have friendships with people in whatever gender you've declared no interest in, without you or them worrying that you're trying to get into their pants < 1340693503 884142 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i imagine being bisexual and strictly monogamous is a bit more awkward than being mono-sexual (?) and strictly monogamous < 1340693510 621211 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the rant about monogamy is another rant ;P < 1340693566 328424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "mono-sexual" a word? If not, then you made it up and it seems clear enough meaning < 1340693963 595474 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual, these things are skewed by pop culture too < 1340693997 234323 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a gay character on TV, more likely than not, being gay is like their #1 defining characteristic and the fact around which all their behaviors and interactions revolve < 1340694008 567033 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just another character point < 1340694017 484956 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that rather bothers me. A lot. < 1340694060 210987 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is why you can write down another story whatever you want involving whatever you want < 1340694076 368271 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is changing, though < 1340694082 728556 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, i can think of some good counterexamples < 1340694093 442009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: How would you even know that? < 1340694099 629843 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1340694106 192498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selection bias and all. < 1340694140 973446 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1340694149 442811 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this isn't a joke about me not owning a TV? < 1340694174 14900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Nope, I didn't think about that. < 1340694215 718632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems to me like there are a lot of "just another character point"s that you don't even know about, or don't really notice. < 1340694255 657257 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in The Wire there's a character who's seen in the background of a gay bar for a split second, and this is never otherwise referenced or explained < 1340694256 446270 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Society being what it is, if they're not *said* to be gay, it's assumed they're straight. < 1340694275 671248 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Who's being somethingist now?! < 1340694301 174640 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm not saying this is *correct*, I'm saying this is the *prevailing assumption*. < 1340694312 893019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if they are not said to be left-handed and you have no evidence like that, they would be assumed to be right-handed, isn't it? < 1340694313 747962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're calling kmc somethingist? < 1340694315 950202 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i need to make such an assumption for my claim to work < 1340694319 288300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just saying his statement is a tautology? < 1340694322 591308 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most characters *in general* are a single trait maximized, because that makes the whole thing easier < 1340694340 165644 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are characters whose sexual preferences are never explored, characters with lots of heterosexual relationships, and characters with lots of homosexual relationships < 1340694341 508592 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Lazy writing is lazy. < 1340694345 565669 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: exactly < 1340694346 22576 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, very occasionally, characetrs with both) < 1340694350 581650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That's a good point. < 1340694362 187765 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I don't watch much television, y'know. I don't even own one, actually. < 1340694363 555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am calling you right-handed! (Even though, I do not actually know.) < 1340694373 898883 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm comparing characters whose preferences are established < 1340694388 916620 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, stereotypes are too useful to ignore < 1340694398 700456 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you could say that most of the characters who are apparently straight are having awesome gay sex just off camera < 1340694402 290780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really how fiction works < 1340694421 800164 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cept fan-fic. < 1340694426 939462 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a matter of assuming they're straight, it's a matter of the author telling you they're straight and you not having any evidence they're secretly bi < 1340694429 997480 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes pikhq < 1340694433 883895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Really? You can write story however you want to let's try. Therefore you can say, I don't know, is it straight, gay, otherwise? We might not know for sure. < 1340694483 634076 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, fan-fic is a magic land where everybody's sexuality is whatever you want it to be. < 1340694491 638183 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try making a story where nobody knows they are homosexual for a long time, and also where nobody knows they are left-handed for a long time, and perhaps nobody knows they wear glasses either, for a while, etc < 1340694500 207930 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, males can get pregnant somehow. < 1340694537 680105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have an island with 100 people. Everyone knows everyone's "sexual preference" except their own. One day an oracle comes to the island... < 1340694543 994360 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a TV trope where the apparently straight woman has a lesbian fling with an attractive guest star during sweeps week < 1340694555 119562 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think another part of it is that they make characters some way to make some point, and often that point is "look how modern we are, we put a gay in our show!" < 1340694560 882050 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the guest star goes away and it never comes up again < 1340694565 773964 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you have to make it really obvious to score the equality points < 1340694572 557754 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: *gag* < 1340694588 122622 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1340694593 998879 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm trying to decide if Modern Family is an example of this < 1340694600 92764 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's right in the name ;) < 1340694610 573838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a story I try to do a lot of things different than other stories, although some things might be similar than others, such as writing in English and so on. < 1340694626 643548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I love equality points. < 1340694630 407759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :≑ < 1340694636 252601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the gay-dads characters do get reasonable three-dimensional character development, but they still have a lot of plots that are about how they're gay < 1340694637 588605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :≐ < 1340694685 880315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't really get the whole idea of caring about this topic at all.
< 1340694686 586451 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Hooray, penis!"? < 1340694688 884665 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1340694692 568621 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :omar little could kick their asses < 1340694693 592579 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there < 1340694704 708622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there are too many similar plots then try to diversify please < 1340694737 896397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as making different kind of plots < 1340694751 475228 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: only seen a few episodes of that show, but that couple seems to be doing a fair amount of of comic relief gayness < 1340694767 968332 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it really depends on the episode < 1340694777 430848 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they try to use all their ensemble characters in every episode < 1340694788 108465 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they get a main plot, it will probably be something more interesting < 1340694796 281120 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they get like the C plot, it might be cheap jokes based on teh gay < 1340694830 550277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C plot plot < 1340694851 947568 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basing an episode on the unique experiences of gay dads raising a family is at least more thematically relevant than making a big deal out of the gayness of a character on, like, some police procedural < 1340694906 362673 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: c.c < 1340694921 510023 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: when you say you don't get "the whole idea of caring about this topic" < 1340694924 467587 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which topic do you mean? < 1340694933 339395 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, but one takes writing ability and taste, the other just requires the ability to bash out words that won't make a producer actually hate you. :) < 1340694993 610238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I actually think I honestly don't watch enough television to know what you mean. < 1340694999 90927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not enough bad television, anyway. :-) < 1340695002 227339 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340695004 741118 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340695021 20604 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the reason people care is that pop culture influences social attitudes < 1340695078 526503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Fukumoto's manga such as Kaiji and Akagi. (I do not know if the characters are gay or anything like that; this is not relevant to the story.) < 1340695171 348845 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1340695294 436885 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i probably watch too much bad television :) < 1340695314 75947 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340695331 840891 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just good at joining complaint-fests. < 1340695333 252854 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1340695338 724954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Try _Breaking Good_ < 1340695342 840619 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1340695345 526344 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: not that there's a whole lot of good television out there < 1340695347 63283 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see what you did there < 1340695356 249678 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: there is a fair amount actually < 1340695382 495031 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just follows the rule that 99% of everything is shit. < 1340695386 649852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there is Star Trek, but I've already seen that < 1340695409 86328 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the period 2000-present is considered something of a golden age of television by most TV critics < 1340695462 879389 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of shows that really push the medium to be artistically on par with film and novels < 1340695479 109777 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also a lot of shit in that period. (but, this is nothing new) < 1340695483 440209 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1340695509 745294 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most TV is still bad (most film and novels, too) < 1340695514 614468 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1340695522 76003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to write book, anyways < 1340695637 699146 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, the third season premiere of Louie is on Thursday < 1340695640 593989 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that show fucking owns < 1340695773 963843 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really unlike anything else on TV < 1340695881 545910 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every week, they cut Louis C.K. a check for about $300k and he gives them what amounts to 1 - 2 short films about whatever the fuck he wants < 1340695938 252596 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which range from hilarious comedy to authentically poignant meditations on life to just bizarre unsettling shit < 1340696191 668147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently in ITMCK it recognizes the following commands in a channel: a ... g (notes), r (rest), n (direct note), ^ (tie), & (slur), / (auto portamento), L (song loop start), || (song loop skip), |L (song loop end), @ (instrument), @@ (key table), @u (effect table), @= (set variable), @q (quantize), @e (direct effect), o (octave), < (low octave), > (high octave), < 1340696201 232460 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340696201 480679 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340696201 679193 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340696201 878022 :constant!~root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1340696211 576949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: DId you know about Compose-.-=? < 1340696217 857941 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only knew about Compose-.--. < 1340696226 676963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suspects the punctuation may not be helpful there.
< 1340696227 921314 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :·• < 1340696260 104013 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340696262 982282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :·•● < 1340696276 857136 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :l (note length), K (transpose), v (volume), G (global volume), X (call user-defined macro), C (note cut setting), q (quantize), t (tempo), [ ] (repeat), I (tremor), J (arpeggio), T (tremolo), P (panning), V (vibrato), Y (panbrello), z (cancel effects). < 1340696287 78878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good? < 1340696291 118044 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Neat. < 1340696318 490566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION · ◦ ○ ( ski )
< 1340696328 296832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What compose is that? < 1340696369 810749 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicechaf < 1340696385 262145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Compose-compose-Win-T-Ctrl-R-u-n-i-c-Enter-/-W-H-I-T-E- -C-I-R-C-L-E-Enter < 1340696396 638974 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340696411 289365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of an awkward combination. < 1340696429 402515 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The worst part is you have to press them all at once.) < 1340696438 962707 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are some duplicates < 1340696449 553103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I have two keyboards. < 1340696483 874477 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many people went up and double-checked that there aren't three of any letter just to prove him wrong.
< 1340696522 505578 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the lowercase "i" and two of uppercase "I" < 1340696551 310209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are different letters. < 1340696596 357224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the same key on a standard computer keyboard. < 1340696629 158224 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After a man in an Elmo costume was ejected from Central Park for an obscenity-laced rant, fellow impersonators of the Sesame Street star breathed sighs of relief." < 1340696639 302113 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I'm glad I still get NYC local news < 1340696652 400784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is obscenity a 5-HT_2A agonist? < 1340696658 62013 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sighchaf < 1340696719 632447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way JetBlue advertises their airplane-flying-points. < 1340696730 30290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Points never expire!*" < 1340696730 660283 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this particular Elmo had some problems with the Jews and the illegal immigrants < 1340696735 285171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Unless you don't use them. < 1340696944 68969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1340696991 277455 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340697178 95862 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1340697321 371599 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340697802 747463 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: when do they expire actually? < 1340697861 953027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: After you've flown on no flights and earned no points for 12 months. < 1340697881 754674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea seems to be that no *individual* point expires, i.e., by refreshing your pool you refresh all the points in it. < 1340697888 118124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still very misleading advertising. < 1340697888 440407 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340697890 325074 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340697901 320624 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jetblue does have some very cheap fares from time to time, though < 1340697914 701519 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the upkeep cost is low, if you're paying attention < 1340697947 251877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's just another form of market segmentation, or something. < 1340697949 392574 :constant!~root@c-98-234-180-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340697958 769482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind being segmented too much, I just mind being lied to. :-( < 1340698072 554571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you seen this puzzle? http://cryp.to/address-of-riddle/ < 1340698089 801809 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! < 1340698097 351127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some variety of it. When I first heard that you could overload &, it's what I immediately thought of, but I didn't realize it was solveable. < 1340698228 90947 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, overloading operator & should be punishable by death < 1340698456 182736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ T *ret; asm("mov %%rdi,%0" : "=g"(ret)); return ret; } < 1340698457 993307 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I win? < 1340698466 379319 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340698471 783820 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're winner < 1340698481 482978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also sometimes spelled "wiener". < 1340698483 775699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1340698511 632376 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i solved it in C++ but i basically looked up the solution < 1340698518 425166 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.informit.com/guides/content.aspx?g=cplusplus&seqNum=546 < 1340698528 468621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I don't know C++ well enough to figure out an answer without reading about C++. < 1340698539 633998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, reading about C++ is the usual way I write C++ when I come across weird edge cases. < 1340698575 346674 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my thoughts exactly < 1340698605 761297 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1340698705 148136 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is pretty simple, and involves something i didn't know you could do < 1340698709 348271 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so thachaf < 1340698837 996156 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340698869 553944 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340698888 986967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, I looked at your link and tried that and my program did something unexpected. < 1340698898 665437 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :expect the unexpected < 1340698904 806327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, it's expected. < 1340698908 821978 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't expect it. < 1340698912 865069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you get my meaning. < 1340698925 692461 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1340698965 527843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this not undefined behavior or something? < 1340698980 984040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Casting to char& seems mighty fishy to me. < 1340699000 749452 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article says it's defined < 1340699009 991265 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340699036 376067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The C++ standard guarantees that an lvalue expression of type T1 can be cast to the type T2& if an expression of type T1* can be explicitly converted to the type T2 * using a reinterpret_cast" < 1340699043 842337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have that guarantee in general about foo and double and char? < 1340699079 695358 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1340699092 251050 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, the article suggests you can < 1340699103 811494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You ought to write a post about gcc inline assembly. < 1340699110 666842 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1340699119 268417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ibiblio.org/gferg/ldp/GCC-Inline-Assembly-HOWTO.html is outdated and I have the feeling it's more confusing than it can be. < 1340699130 378972 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used GCC inline assembly in a few posts < 1340699212 303155 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i have much to say about it < 1340699224 80822 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340699228 303100 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the realistic use cases are a bit too disjoint to just have a list of examples < 1340699309 425212 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Extended-Asm.html isn't outdated < 1340699420 988986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can cast any pointer to char*, so assuming that "T1 to T2&" reinterpret_cast statement is true, that should be fine. < 1340699431 371744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks real bad, though. < 1340699451 602587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/any pointer/any pointer to object type/ or whatever. < 1340699706 594633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an undefined-behaviour-but-works-for-me solution, here's one: < 1340699730 273202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct tref { T& r; tref(T& t) : r(t) {} }; tref r(obj); return *(T**)&r; < 1340699784 89876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It assumes a reference is really just a disguised pointer with the same representation.) < 1340699856 968553 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah very good < 1340699864 472114 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nya ha ha ha ha < 1340699930 492065 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it also assumes something about the layout of that struct < 1340699947 514473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but at least in C the first member is guaranteed to be at the same address as the struct itself. < 1340699969 784660 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that's true in C++ < 1340699976 83641 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't some compilers put a vtable pointer in the first field < 1340699996 790814 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be some compiler which produces vtables unconditionally ;) < 1340700068 847361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could struct tref { T& r; tref(T& t) : r(t) {} }; tref r(obj); T* p; memcpy(&p, (char*)&r + offsetof(tref, r), sizeof *p); return p; instead, assuming 'offsetof' still exists in C++ land. < 1340700091 727471 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, i bet offsetof is broken for members which overload operator& < 1340700141 113834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simple implementation would be, that's true. < 1340700179 786386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because of the extended functionality of structs in C++, in this language, the use of offsetof is restricted to "POD types", which for classes, more or less corresponds to the C concept of struct (although non-derived classes with only public non-virtual member functions and with no constructor and/or destructor would also qualify as POD)." says a random reference. < 1340700242 98966 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pod people < 1340700324 387859 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B32.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340700395 957276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it in fact does not seem to work. < 1340700398 338209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp.cc:10: warning: invalid access to non-static data member ‘address_of(T&) [with T = foo]::tref::r’ of NULL object < 1340700401 452674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp.cc:10: warning: (perhaps the ‘offsetof’ macro was used incorrectly) < 1340700524 177084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another too-clever-by-half version: struct tref { T& r; char c; tref(T& t) : r(t) { } }; tref r(obj); return *(T**)(&r.c - sizeof(T*)); < 1340700532 40841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time it assumes no padding after the T& r. < 1340700782 912231 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340700825 435931 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is how the "struct to first member" rule survives in C++: "A pointer to a POD-struct object, suitably converted using reinterpret_cast, points to its initial member -- and vice versa. [Note: There might therefore be unnamed padding within a POD-struct object, but not at its beginning, --]" < 1340700929 369692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A POD-struct is an aggregate class that has no non-static data members of type non-POD-struct, non-POD-union (or array of such types) or reference, and has no user-declared copy assignment operator and no user-declared destructor." < 1340700947 145793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, there is a reference member, so tref is not a POD-struct. < 1340700987 653633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, the ref-is-a-pointer was already unambiguously undefined. < 1340701231 123708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340701244 936154 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct treif { ... } < 1340701445 897316 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do i get multi-lingual pun points < 1340701624 412440 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: C/C++ *and* Objective-C/C++? < 1340701688 659742 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and Hebrew < 1340701712 489491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's Yiddish. < 1340701714 283169 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we're talking about type punning so it's like, a meta-pun, man < 1340701718 719100 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you're right < 1340701721 439585 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1340701740 475289 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm usually good at puns. < 1340701784 640684 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this how i send bold in irssi? < 1340701797 618921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340701804 287914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you were using irssi < 1340701815 122524 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not wysiwyg < 1340701818 316941 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340701826 466754 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1340701828 448675 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1340701853 840146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow rainbow < 1340701861 243108 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1340701861 441953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1340701866 363080 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5R7O8Y3G2B10I6V < 1340701868 811619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot :'( < 1340701878 627350 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's a depressing rainbow. < 1340701886 965190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please in future for use brighter colors. < 1340701887 219041 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5R7O8Y3G2B10I6V < 1340701894 109610 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bold statement to make < 1340701916 927689 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,14blink? < 1340701919 804856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it has begun < 1340701925 23807 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no blink < 1340701937 418972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Bilingual puns aren't cool. You know what's cool? 2000-lingual puns. < 1340701943 155417 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right you are < 1340701972 914539 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\0035hello" < 1340701973 988375 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : #hello < 1340701993 40421 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\x035hello" < 1340701993 927070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5hello < 1340701998 959757 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :punks < 1340702024 576752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote maximal.munch < 1340702025 206081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. < 1340702069 994753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximal munch is the best thing, I'm told. < 1340702075 571857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ma < 1340702185 465073 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you can eat < 1340702214 865423 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i can eat in a month? < 1340702234 368681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, itidus21. All you can eat in a month. < 1340702247 152234 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be bad for my health < 1340702282 561356 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340702326 135500 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would go for kfc pieces < 1340702419 831364 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340702450 871898 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1340702523 819584 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had KFC < 1340702597 151875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too close to home, eh? < 1340702607 323463 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-208.washdc.east.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340702611 681294 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1340702619 571945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol lol < 1340702624 643217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1340702651 997624 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew there was something fishy about that comment of mine < 1340702656 351400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i couldn't place it < 1340702656 856093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340702664 503900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the "lol"s < 1340702683 65063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If you like KFC so much why don't you marry her? < 1340702691 763909 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1340702715 409467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: when i said it i thought.. why does "kfc pieces" sound weird to say? < 1340702722 563146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect I'll only get myself deeper into bad-pun-debt here. < 1340702728 643338 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now i see < 1340702734 864586 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought that was a joke about me growing up in the midwest < 1340702740 311537 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now i realize it is a joke on my IRC nick < 1340702744 653047 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much more sensible < 1340702747 452601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i suggest you use the spork up in the topic < 1340702759 174271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes. < 1340702763 339273 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooo < 1340702777 148506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to wash it first < 1340702778 144780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is that Russian GPS equivalent called now again? < 1340702778 833745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340702779 515613 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats terrible < 1340702783 653527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :KFC is, like, the female version of you. < 1340702787 295659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it < 1340702789 619605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1340702790 259281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner said 3h 26m ago: open a new tab (or close all open ones) and you'll get a new start page ... restarting mini will ususally resume in the state it was before closing < 1340702800 799848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see the /dev/{zero,null} logic gate thing? < 1340702801 899593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GLONASS < 1340702805 176606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, thanks < 1340702808 131445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1340702813 327809 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually ГЛОНАСС < 1340702820 397924 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no < 1340702825 152546 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/pipelogic/index.php < 1340702826 60402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, stop showing off :P < 1340702829 488629 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe < 1340702831 365646 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, did see < 1340702840 945183 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, my incredible copy pasting from wikipedia skills < 1340702846 211068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340702847 133587 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty funny < 1340702853 696444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows if GLONASS operates on a frequency that works better indoors than GPS? < 1340702857 548626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you copied and pasted? < 1340702866 794560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a Russian keyboard like the rest of us? < 1340702867 121361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new phone supports both and it can get a fix indoors in a matter of seconds < 1340702868 25956 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have compose key codes for cyrillic < 1340702873 557181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.$/!/ < 1340702876 757925 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the words kfc and kmc are now ruined for me :D < 1340702882 418596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Тхе рест оф ус. < 1340702882 832745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty impressive < 1340702899 492014 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -_- < 1340702901 483411 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nice < 1340702903 472553 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are you? < 1340702907 591754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Sweden < 1340702909 809971 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought glonass coverage is much better in russia < 1340702911 600292 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, close enough < 1340702923 60797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :кмц: Ыоу дон'т хаже ацтуал кеыбоард лаыоут свитцхинг сет уп? < 1340702924 478973 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: preved medved < 1340702928 185842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340702934 824530 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: reading that is painful < 1340702935 841428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ис цхеатинг, оф цоурсе, витх тхе пхонетиц лаыоут.
< 1340702957 437181 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☭ < 1340702961 837382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Русский язык < 1340702962 288701 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well it must not be as attenuated by walls I guess. Which kind of sucks for me, I did my bachelor thesis on indoor positioning systems using WLAN XD < 1340702967 336184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i doubt glonass is in geostationary orbit (gps certainly isn't), so why should it be better in russia? < 1340702969 561499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Привет! < 1340702970 484570 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340702982 462480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow IM BAKC < 1340702983 192011 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :02I03M04 05B06A07K08C < 1340702996 11713 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have set up a false dichotomy there < 1340702998 401488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Баян < 1340703007 254518 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many orbits other than geostationary which cover some area better than others < 1340703012 444476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1340703021 411142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess straight north-south would... < 1340703023 600245 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :molniya orbits for example < 1340703030 729436 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Molniya.jpg < 1340703071 758633 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oxts.com/default.asp?pageRef=134 < 1340703085 222331 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :культура < 1340703093 622218 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't fixed ^rainbow vs. multibyte. < 1340703099 110906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow ГЛОНАСС < 1340703099 875930 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :02�03�04�05�06�07�08�09�02�03�04�05�06�07� < 1340703104 142132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, no. < 1340703104 444526 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1340703106 995659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this is a wood building (with mexitegel (a Swedish product, according to wikipedia it is only known as "calcium silicate bricks" elsewhere) on the outside) < 1340703110 256792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...actually given one of my math articles, i should have suspected that. even if the article used a torus, not a sphere. < 1340703118 738963 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i really like that rainbow of unicode replacement characters < 1340703121 543807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to test it in a concrete building at some point too < 1340703123 169527 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cheating with google translate tho < 1340703136 53798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other rainbow is made from Unicode block drawing characters. < 1340703137 862812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow2 < 1340703138 642030 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :6█0█15█14█1█2█12█11█10█3█9█8█7█5█4█13█6█0█15█14█1█2█12█11█10█3█9█8█7█5█4█13█6█0█15█14█1█2█12█11█10█3█9█8█7█5█4█13█6█0█15█14█1█2█12█11█10█3█9█8█ ...too much output! < 1340703150 790874 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more cat < 1340703154 746435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is black in that rainbow? < 1340703157 44717 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340703169 219327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's the colour of magic, maybe? < 1340703170 817555 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1340703172 652123 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow в Советской России, водку пьет вы < 1340703173 755312 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :0203�04�05 06�07�08�09�02�03�04�05�06�07�08�09�02�03�04�05�06�07�08 09�02�03�04�05�06�07�08�09�02�03�04�05,06 07�08�09�02�03�04�05�06�07�08�09 02�03�04�05 ... < 1340703175 438022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340703177 487379 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1340703190 70301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I don't think it does multi-byte correctly < 1340703203 937753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :в Советской России, водку пьет вы < 1340703204 939399 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in before shachaf says i will call someone racist < 1340703207 497148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOCK is byte-oriented < 1340703209 259277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from google translate < 1340703230 437035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey you should write an UTF-8 library in befunge! < 1340703230 674564 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340703246 744583 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 8======Д < 1340703306 310066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Been suggested. Waiting for suitable amounts of free time and/or boredom, I suppose. I can't just decode UTF-8 to Befunge cells and back (even though they're certainly wide enough) without also upping the brainfuck cell size from 8 bits. < 1340703320 100005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340703324 757502 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should make it 16 bits. < 1340703328 445746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll hold any Unicode character. < 1340703330 905044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1340703337 90313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't though < 1340703337 290164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it'd at least make ISO-8859-1 work properly. < 1340703343 280141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rainbow blärp < 1340703344 31313 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :02b03l04�05�06r07p < 1340703364 930717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ISO-8859-1 is enough for the important Nordic languages < 1340703404 290685 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about ISO-3103-1980 < 1340703409 327980 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Машина Тьюринга является мнимым машина разработана Алана Тьюринга, который выполняет вычисления. < 1340703462 239141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw importing vCalendar 1.0 files into an android device is painful as I found out when I tried to import the calendar from my old phone. What I did was importing it into evolution, then exporting a backup of evolution and extracting the data as a iCalendar file from that backup, then import that backup < 1340703480 650273 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i secretly wish i knew russian < 1340703491 217110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: your secret is safe with me < 1340703495 253296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no you don't. You told us, it isn't secret < 1340703515 130405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is in the logs now too < 1340703540 103625 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340703543 145295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO-8859-1 lacks Š, š, Ž, ž which I think are used sometimes in loan words in Finnish/Estonian, and I think at least one of them is in one of the Sami alphabets. < 1340703551 672961 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1340703566 775837 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean to say is < 1340703580 973418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also œ, which is important for typing œrjan. < 1340703594 905448 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ærjan < 1340703596 406437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't it Örjan in proper language? < 1340703597 850180 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretending that expressing interest in things makes me a better person < 1340703599 408674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1340703605 743140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ørjan? < 1340703608 612214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would assume it's more of an ø. < 1340703609 529748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1340703613 25756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often works < 1340703617 646176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ørjan Johansen < 1340703620 998087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, they use that silly ø instead of the proper ö < 1340703625 763599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of course is in latin-1, but anyway. < 1340703634 420451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should get multiple keyboard layouts set up! < 1340703637 858582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy. < 1340703647 499101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can just press Shift-Shift to switch layouts. < 1340703648 447893 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already have < 1340703652 521593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like that though < 1340703658 463313 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. < 1340703660 562132 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what program handles that? < 1340703663 305300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently (wikipedia) œ is "used in the modern scholarly orthography of Old West Norse, representing the long vowel /øː/, contrasting with ø, which represents the short vowel /ø/". < 1340703665 392090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think X11? < 1340703693 218179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows tradition is to use Alt-Shift. < 1340703704 245958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think you can easily get X to act exactly like Windows. < 1340703726 281674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it will switch on keydown of the Shift, making a lot of keyboard shortcuts impossible.) < 1340703744 746232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the Windows tradition is that right-Ctrl-Shift will switch to an RTL language and move your cursor to the right side of the input field. < 1340703750 743738 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And left-Ctrl-Shift the reverse. < 1340703758 594284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's an equivalent. :-( < 1340703795 758670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't think xkb's built-in keyboard layout switching can do shift-shift, unless by that you mean "both shifts at the same time", not a two-key thing. < 1340703806 344403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean both at the same time. < 1340703816 219901 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay; then it's the grp:shifts_toggle option. < 1340703830 384153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, left-Shift-right-Shift will cycle in one direction, and right-Shift-left-Shift will cycle in the other. < 1340703846 363751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe I should refer to those keys as << and >> < 1340703856 274076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think in many cases it's still the desktop environment doing the switching, not xkb itself. < 1340703877 217617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Doesn't the desktop environment just tell xkb to use grp:whatever? < 1340703906 424707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example when you configure GNOME to behave that way, it generates an xkb configuration file and runs xkb with it. < 1340703911 82982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could, but obviously it could also use whatever mechanism it uses for all other keyboard shortcuts, and then just tell xkb to switch. < 1340703913 809229 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This fact brought to you by: strace.) < 1340703934 844202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that would let it use any kind of thing instead of just what xkb supports. < 1340703955 421497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know what they actually do.) < 1340703982 543530 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340704012 433372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GNOME "Options..." menu does smell a bit like it's more or less just a mapping from xkb into a graphical thing, that's twue. < 1340704112 131634 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a bit" < 1340704142 775867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also someone's configured "both alt keys together" to switch layouts on this box, but there's just one Alt key. The other side is an AltGr and doesn't seem to count. < 1340704153 502194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I have more than just two Finnish layouts there, so...) < 1340704182 566590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you even need a Finnish layout? < 1340704193 369825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once tried to use a laptop with a Finnish layout and it was horrible. < 1340704219 127699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, uh the Finnish layout is basically the same as the Swedish one < 1340704221 670229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too used to it. There's quite a bit of AltGr'ing when programming. < 1340704227 201622 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can type the characters with AltGr on a US layout. < 1340704233 168600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't all that terrible except for the AltGr-stuff < 1340704240 482689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has AltGr!
< 1340704243 943868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ä < 1340704268 821602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :å < 1340704269 823960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö < 1340704280 917035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Å-hä! < 1340704282 38140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, would you consider a layout where the letter e required altgr to type? < 1340704290 479720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yës. < 1340704294 308893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiight < 1340704311 464213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amount of Finnish I write with this keyboard does make äöå kinda superfluous. But since they're printed on it... < 1340704316 254429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thé lèttër E. < 1340704331 546386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I can type all that without altgr < 1340704349 112111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :öóíø < 1340704354 410238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :úü < 1340704360 572203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ëéð < 1340704364 768707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ç < 1340704365 666729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know /why/ I can type ë without altgr though, there is no use for that in Swedish < 1340704373 600050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you Swedish or something? < 1340704377 43253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340704396 370104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should stop being Swedish and be Finnish instead. < 1340704401 426777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll solve your keyboard problems. < 1340704413 930184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, they use the same layout as Swedish! < 1340704414 265521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in Swedishanialand once! < 1340704421 43564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that makes no sense < 1340704433 935369 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but the Finns are crazy, so they have an excuse. < 1340704448 309513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, using the US layout would be a bit strange what with the whole 104-key/105-key difference. What would our <>| key do? < 1340704452 86714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, oh come on, only a crazy person could pack things like IKEA < 1340704485 286259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you complaining about having an *EXTRA* key left over? < 1340704488 380314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they don't have that key? < 1340704504 16746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ¦ < 1340704505 120371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They have 'z' right next to shift, I believe. < 1340704509 142629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1340704511 252052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, that's just like the good old days! < 1340704518 268367 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikea is hax < 1340704524 931242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat file ¦ cat < 1340704533 394004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :¦¦¦ < 1340704540 713268 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The groups of companies that form IKEA are all controlled by INGKA Holding ., a Dutch corporation, which in turn is controlled by a tax-exempt, not-for-profit Dutch foundation. The IKEA trademark and concept is controlled by a series of corporations that can be traced to the Netherlands Antilles and to the Interogo Foundation in Liechtenstein." < 1340704555 563470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The broken bar is one of the casualties of ISO-8859-15. < 1340704557 84453 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I wonder is why the norwegian and danish qwerty layouts have their æ and ø buttons swapped, when comparing them to each other < 1340704570 779960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Are you Nordanish? < 1340704577 741190 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm swedish < 1340704589 162885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is everyone Swedish? :-( < 1340704594 199978 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the entire billion euro company is owned by a "nonprofit" whose mission is "To promote and support innovation in the field of architectural and interior design." < 1340704594 438868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I asked that very question here on this channel, and I think we had a Norwegian present, but I don't think there was an answer. < 1340704601 554968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it was originally Swedish though, and it is actually owned by the same person who founded it still afaik. There are a few steps in between though < 1340704608 426282 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in turn gives "grants" to IKEA's designers < 1340704615 89772 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is super sketchy < 1340704621 636493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1340704625 971064 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the wealthiest nonprofit in the world < 1340704639 544398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is actually non-profit though < 1340704654 282902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe legally, but not in any other sense < 1340704668 82176 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh yeah < 1340704671 492156 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'm getting at >_< < 1340704690 200138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm under the impression that foundations mostly exist for shady tax business purposes. < 1340704713 890375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely < 1340704730 474884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of my wife's friends that have amounts of money (I don't recall details) have been doing some foundation-owned-apartments whatever thingamajiks. < 1340704749 18063 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, IKEA has <300 stores. < 1340704760 343718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I thought it would be more. < 1340704767 211657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, 300? That is a lot < 1340704770 295714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I live next door to one! < 1340704773 541252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the chances? < 1340704800 441378 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340704817 572891 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh, me too < 1340704826 405764 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thought it was more) < 1340704830 20179 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time i took the boat to ikea < 1340704847 687590 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You don't live next door to one? :-( < 1340704847 886855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boat to ikea? < 1340704849 466659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1340704864 556211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm told the EPA IKEA is one of the better things that happened to EPA. < 1340704873 367315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is EPA? < 1340704881 79716 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340704888 376240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IKEA in new york city is down by the waterfront, in an area which is kind of annoying to get to by subway < 1340704889 380140 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: The Finnish/Swedish keyboard has this §½ key at the top-left; the Danish layout has the same characters, but they're swapped; it's ½ raw, and § with shift. They just have to do everything backwards. That might explain the ø-æ thing. < 1340704892 813322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electronic Powder Anthology < 1340704894 115292 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they run a free boat from Manhattan < 1340704900 451416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340704909 896961 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it's $5 in the to-IKEA direction, but you get a $5 gift card < 1340704915 358073 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, silly danes.. < 1340704916 409827 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the other direction you just show a receipt < 1340704922 767483 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think it's still free-free at weekends < 1340704937 49023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No public-transportation tourism for you! < 1340704946 282857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, fizzie: Well it is totally in line with their pronunciation and their counting so... < 1340704951 467258 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they do things backwards < 1340704971 807156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: EPA is East Palo Alto. < 1340704972 665623 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the Staten Island Ferry is still entirely free! < 1340704978 13494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Helsinki metropolitan region IKEAs have free bus transportation to/from them. < 1340704979 79336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's where silicon valley ends and the murders begin. < 1340704982 644090 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SI threatened to secede in order to get that sweet deal < 1340704982 843181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, and what is Palo Alto? < 1340704988 488902 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure why NYC was so sad to see them go...) < 1340704989 262455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Silicon valley. < 1340704993 215264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc their name for "20" is basically "half-forty" < 1340704996 81851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, ah < 1340704997 116993 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly they should trade SI to New Jersey in exchange for Hudson County < 1340705017 226585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Should I go and see El Palo Alto? < 1340705044 786039 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1340705046 943232 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the big tree? < 1340705054 124607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's lines from the city centre to both Espoo and Vantaa IKEAs, and also from Sello (a big shopping mall in a "centre"-ish location in Espoo) to the Espoo IKEA and from Itäkeskus (ditto for Vantaa) to the Vantaa IKEA.) < 1340705056 267066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340705058 733548 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so? < 1340705062 207587 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw the biggest tree in somerville < 1340705062 406377 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340705066 562215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it's just something like three or four times per day. But still. < 1340705068 833830 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be, like, hypocritical if i told you not to < 1340705083 198263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in Yosemite and they had pretty big trees there. < 1340705131 923596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Does Somerville actually have trees? < 1340705144 269383 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340705147 515067 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :several < 1340705210 330970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have some (two, I think) product-testing robots on display at the Espoo IKEA. IIRC, there's a thing that repeatedly sits on a chair, and a thing that repeatedly opens and closes a cupboard door. < 1340705227 141093 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to paulgraham.com, California Ave. in Palo Alto used to have oak trees until a few years ago. < 1340705235 905422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh yeah I seen those as well < 1340705240 12925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some numbers on to how many sittings they test their chairs, or something. < 1340705348 38945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : iirc their name for "20" is basically "half-forty" <-- erm no, the danish madness doesn't start until 50. < 1340705431 501378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix $ ("half "++) . ("twice" ++) < 1340705434 58040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "half twicehalf twicehalf twicehalf twicehalf twicehalf twicehalf twicehalf... < 1340705494 322334 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you have a job these days? < 1340705499 531629 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember you talking about an image processing thing < 1340705500 106992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, 50 = half-60, 60 = thric(e-20) < 1340705525 491017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sure? < 1340705534 968121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1340705545 106903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CV thing was just for a couple of weeks. < 1340705549 902297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was "half-fjers" then? (not sure about the spelling) < 1340705557 149070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :70. < 1340705564 331771 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and what is "fjers"? < 1340705567 765568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :80. < 1340705571 586230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm doing a different thing -- life is too complicated. :-( < 1340705573 739430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it didn't even make sense < 1340705575 204061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340705591 374096 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"half" means ten less, obviously < 1340705596 399430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it makes sense. 70 = half-80, 80 = four-t(imes 20) < 1340705606 951537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, rather than half? < 1340705609 731382 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's it like? < 1340705613 861370 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why does it complicate < 1340705623 313315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so the "half"-bit means? < 1340705628 371179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's probably half in the same sense as clock hours < 1340705634 177773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1340705634 733484 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity512.html < 1340705674 676247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It remains to be seen. < 1340705747 928528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 90 = half-five-t(imes 20), although 100 is just "hundre" < 1340705773 902558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't the French do 80 as '4*20' too? And 75 as '60+15'? Something like that, anyway. (I didn't do any French.) < 1340705804 222886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like Americans say "fourscore". < 1340705810 111403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes. < 1340705826 763461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quatre-vingts quinze [sp] < 1340705834 250781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And "threescore years and ten" of life. < 1340705845 204802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1340705853 897507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be 95 < 1340705872 262832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, 4*20+15. < 1340705881 247104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: threescore years and ten or threescore and ten years? < 1340705904 634956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away." --KJV < 1340705924 740438 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not Americans, that's KJV. < 1340705941 223616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you have your own share of KJV-fanatics, don't you? < 1340705951 305500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you"? < 1340705952 768032 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey careful, that's a copyrighted work < 1340705955 97259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is Finnish.
< 1340705964 932174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly more than the British do. < 1340705966 692861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine score years ago, americans spoke like KJV < 1340705971 13857 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, KJV being? < 1340705978 312629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A bible edition. < 1340705980 919873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340705981 121824 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :King James Vible. < 1340705982 12929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :King James Version. < 1340705990 514369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The One True Edition, according to some. < 1340705998 35744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truer than the original. < 1340706015 507160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's divinely inspired so it's infallible, or something like that. Unlike later editions that match source texts better. < 1340706027 422317 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the source text itself! < 1340706036 189453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being Finnish, I can read the bible in the original. < 1340706067 263447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also called "Authorized Version". < 1340706077 290142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quatre-vingt quinze < 1340706214 260688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alussa Jumala loi taivaan ja maan < 1340706243 704136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alussa oli suo, kuokka -- ja Jussi. < 1340706266 722749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this should explain about KJV: < 1340706268 586543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, google translate seems to have learned that exactly. < 1340706270 49991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inspiration is when God takes a blank piece of paper (papyrus, vellum, etc.) and uses men to write His words. < 1340706273 565308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preservation is when God takes those words already written and uses men to preserve them to today. < 1340706276 559952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both of these actions are DIVINE and are assured by God as recorded in Psalm 12:6,7. < 1340706280 109915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. < 1340706283 553063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."" < 1340706298 171614 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I in the wrong #esoteric? < 1340706321 271778 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Is there a right #esoteric? < 1340706328 320666 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not. < 1340706330 702476 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION >>= sleep
< 1340706345 298207 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_LORD < 1340706368 49659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set errno to E_LORD when divine intervention inhibits your code. < 1340706403 289287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :E_NDOFWORLD < 1340706421 389532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will Squeak or Pharo ever have decent namespacing, or ways to prevent conflicts with monkeypatching? < 1340706464 371433 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no lonesome george died < 1340706581 546240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also KJV is better than the originals because there are three occurrances of "translation" in KJV, and in all those cases the translation is better than the original: the "translation" of the kingdom of Isreal over to David, the "translation" of a sinner into Christianity, and the "translation" of Enoch to heaven. In all these cases, the translation was an improvement, so it must also apply to ... < 1340706588 41043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the KJV. (Also other editions have not used the word 'translation' in those places, which means they are... bad, or something.) < 1340706591 69237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I read the above from the Internet.) < 1340706599 824019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia seems to go out of their way not to call him that < 1340706604 311363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's called logic.) < 1340706625 323853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course if you "worship education" you may disagree. < 1340706633 417907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source: http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/translation-better.html ) < 1340706634 611377 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340706656 508405 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, have you seen the Conservative Bible Project? < 1340706665 63506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard the name, yes. < 1340706667 583705 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does your divine intervention contains unknown behavior ? < 1340706708 783936 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one point where they interpret Jesus telling his disciples to cast their fishing nets on the right of the boat as an endorsement of conservatism. < 1340706740 376920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION expects the conservative bible project to contain "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, strike him down _hard_."
< 1340706753 203215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I read some comparison review text thing about it too. < 1340706780 852605 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did get rid of the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" bit because it was liberal anti-capital punishment claptrap.; < 1340706787 514005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Express Free Market Parables" is one of their guidelines. < 1340706800 239683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh having an uneven number of icons you want on a given home screen on android is annoying, no symmetry is possible :/ < 1340706925 819376 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm wait, I wonder what they did with the bit where Jesus gets all angry at the shopkeepers. < 1340707065 202304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Colbert Report interview featured this project" < 1340707068 616444 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem mighty proud of it < 1340707086 852158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Proposed Conservative Translation: They entered Jerusalem and Jesus entered the Temple. He threw out the vendors and toppled the moneychangers' tables and dove-sellers' seats." < 1340707093 183609 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't sound very different there. < 1340707118 432562 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive. < 1340707126 417638 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340707132 96037 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember seeing a difference between 2 versions of one of the english bible where the meaning was *changed* < 1340707142 236019 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+<++]> appears to be a solution for 128 for interpreters that don't check brackets :) < 1340707148 990716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu, which bit? < 1340707162 203435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I do like it how they've annotated the "And if a woman divorces her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery.'" verse with an "Analysis" note of "This is the real answer to the question of divorce." < 1340707166 748916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, what would the ] jump to? < 1340707167 574025 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit which said in which cases you'ld have to be punished < 1340707173 192976 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Jump to the beginning. < 1340707174 253551 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what punition should be expected < 1340707183 183592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, right, so not an actual solution then < 1340707192 249259 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: fish! < 1340707198 463459 :MDoze!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340707206 179326 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember the exact reference < 1340707266 41580 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i remember something like "if you hit a pregnant woman", which originally included causing miscariage, but now only include causing stillborn < 1340707300 800884 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first case is no longer punished < 1340707325 485689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also the Matthew version of the temple scene carries a note "Jesus does not mean to say that all commerce is inherently evil. He does make the point that commercial activity in the Temple can never be proper." And the Luke version with "The kind of buying and selling going on was not ordinary commerce, but trade in sacrifices and special coins which exploited religious values ... < 1340707331 721862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... for personal gain by non-believers." < 1340707502 784757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340707622 92777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've also reworded the "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" bit by changing the "rich man" to "an idle miser". < 1340707633 160141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For obvious reasons. < 1340707727 852497 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trolling < 1340707728 961238 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by < 1340707729 864778 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy < 1340707928 297214 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......why in the world did I have any trouble understanding Scala's unapply? < 1340707986 193829 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION generalizes Sgeo's question into why in the world does anyone have trouble understanding anything designed by man
< 1340708065 956386 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one reason may be that any attempt to explain and record civilization in infinite detail would bring civilization to a grinding halt < 1340708093 712020 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus we must choose our queries and expend some energy in research < 1340708199 636358 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. suppose that someone wanted to walk across the room.. recording all the details of this act.. they would perhaps photograph all their footsteps.. but in order to record the act of photographing their footsteps they would install a mirror.. but to record the act of installing a mirror they would reach that endless recursion thing < 1340708239 118953 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stops.
< 1340708583 316471 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340708758 182739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What languages are there with strong static typing but with a highly dynamic environment? < 1340708764 851399 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B32.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340708766 717940 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :python < 1340708773 39594 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh static typing < 1340708792 146639 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B32.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340709050 528403 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B32.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1340709059 864014 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1340711093 877416 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340711125 874922 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340711129 632276 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340711142 903993 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340711359 37372 :MDoze!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDUde < 1340711366 474722 :MDUde!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 NICK :MDude < 1340711471 442880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340711882 134945 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340713637 309844 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you mean exactly wyth 'dynamic environment'? < 1340713639 6016 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with < 1340713651 807446 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Native support for dynamic code loading? < 1340713679 301501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It being as comfortable as possible to modify a program while it's running < 1340713690 736505 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang maybe? < 1340713731 712119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the strong static typing? < 1340713878 340881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Erlang's dynamic loading stuffs are all *that* comfortable, either. It can be done, sure, but (AFAIK) you need to design for that when writing the program. < 1340714002 414127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang doesn't really have static typing < 1340714002 612767 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340714008 156875 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340714010 719825 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an optional static checker that some people use, which can catch some stuff < 1340714080 343119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things found when googling for "statically typed Smalltalk", which I suppose is kind of what the question was all about: Strongtalk, the language with the best name. < 1340714090 554157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't go wrong with Strongtalk. < 1340715437 718160 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hasn't Strongtalk been sort of neglected? < 1340715459 272642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds very likely. But the name is still great. < 1340715463 957774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strongtalk. < 1340715492 360048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I see latest news are about the open-sourced VM from 2006.) < 1340715523 719876 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But with the release of the virtual-machine source code, a whole new world of possibilities has opened up. What will become of Strongtalk? Now, the answer is finally in the community's hands!" < 1340715532 870732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the answer was a resounding "meh". < 1340715675 755321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiee, this project uses ant. Oh the pain to build it < 1340715686 118062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you may need to type "ant". < 1340715712 88794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err, more than that, I need to configure the location of the android sdk somehow, since it complained about not finding it < 1340715721 25578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh build.properties < 1340715798 137815 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu[Zzz] < 1340715859 91058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds terrible. My condolences. < 1340715914 817440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also .svn is annoying. It messes up tab complete if you do something like cd foo/ if foo contains just one visible directory under it. < 1340715933 549351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is annoying when navigating java source, com/foo/bar/xxyz and so on < 1340716021 42386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you happen to know how to specify a main class when using java -jar? < 1340716036 842302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, override the one that's in the manifest? < 1340716054 330726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, or in this case there isn't one in the manifest < 1340716072 911754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always just "java -cp blah.jar MainClass". < 1340716096 502873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1340716101 902616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think -jar does much more than adds to classpath and picks up the Main-Class attribute. < 1340716104 386005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "set match-hidden-files off" in .inputrc. < 1340716113 670500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh nice, thanks < 1340716131 895035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm java.lang.ClassNotFoundException, okaaay < 1340716142 462283 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been annoyed at the '.svn' directories in one school Java thing too. < 1340716179 158399 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1340716183 255488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, having a .inputrc will still load /etc/inputrc right? No need to include or duplicate settings? < 1340716207 495876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hm, what about tab completing when I *did* type a dot, < 1340716228 471093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads bash manual page
< 1340716233 920503 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need "$include /etc/inputrc" according to man bash. < 1340716260 981165 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that just changes things so that you need to type the dot. If you do, completion works as usual. < 1340716262 169768 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1340716272 886991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah I don't remember how to reload inputrc on the fly < 1340716297 470071 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind -f ~/.inputrc < 1340716303 837623 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1340716322 833342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay works < 1340716378 397798 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wow, my 'man bash' seems to be pretty confused: "match-hidden-files: This variable, when set to On, causes readline to match files whose names begin with a `.' (hidden files) when performing filename completion, unless the leading `.' is supplied by the user in the filename to be completed." < 1340716396 207852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it won't match hidden files if I supply that dot. < 1340716469 344936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm anyone know a good open source QR code generator that runs locally on your computer. I know there are various web based ones, but that is a security issue since my use case is transferring passwords to a phone from a laptop or desktop < 1340716470 478691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might have earlier been written for the 'Off' case, or something. < 1340716472 588854 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to say that when the variable is On, .-names are completed automatically unless you supplied the dot yourself, in which case they are also completed as per usual. < 1340716501 694525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see that last part in it. < 1340716521 200001 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've used 'qrencode' in Arch. < 1340716527 210594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "match files -- unless the leading '.' is supplied" sounds more like it wouldn't match them if you supply them. < 1340716530 721807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thanks < 1340716537 440864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used something with 'qr' in the name. < 1340716567 269714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that seems a pretty obvious choice for naming such a product < 1340716581 49922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might've been the same thing. < 1340716618 241519 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, true; I was thinking that when the . is already there that part of the completion would've already taken place, but it does say that it wouldn't match at all if the dot's there. < 1340716691 588882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm isn't QR typed? I see no options to set the type < 1340716723 157999 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1340716773 28451 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340716912 96653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe they aren't < 1340717403 148255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a mode, but that only determines the character set. And the error correction level. I'd assume most programs can set those. < 1340717476 148844 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might also just pick the optimal mode. < 1340717670 937786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, I guess readers just guess if it is text, urls, or contact info or whatever < 1340717776 70693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's no real content-type sort of field. < 1340717865 344143 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D35.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340717922 73372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess a large proportion of "live" QR codes are URLs. < 1340718400 110285 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340718811 32418 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340719671 563410 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340720053 339530 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340721023 576555 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340722942 872750 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :Guest8000 < 1340722954 741579 :constant!~root@c-98-234-180-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1340722954 939828 :constant!~root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1340722956 281688 :constant!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :trout < 1340723245 460561 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoho < 1340723248 868903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found solutions! < 1340723354 964749 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :all already known though. < 1340723443 273114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :85,171,127,129 are all possible in 10 Instructions. < 1340723606 506567 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the constants on the esowiki human-made? < 1340723612 896609 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how were they found? < 1340724214 278176 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-91.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1340724245 776743 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340724571 601961 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, Phantom_Hoover, there's been updates. They're not visible on the left-hand side of MSPA < 1340724664 618729 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first page is. < 1340724716 59296 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340724785 845575 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1340724787 867172 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did jane just < 1340724845 46052 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1340724851 518849 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340724907 60930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, how far are you going to go in length? < 1340724945 534179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how many computers (and cores) are you distributing the brute forcing on? < 1340724949 354365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the programm is programmed to run until 256 Solutions have been found. < 1340724963 497604 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means there is no limit to length actually. < 1340724976 616346 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But after a length of 32 all solutions *should* be found. < 1340724993 967691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I haven't found a performant way to distribute it. < 1340725000 778267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you said 5 years? Was that for one core then? < 1340725011 477023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I limited it to 1500 Cycles for each Brainfuck program < 1340725022 833794 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawning threads is more expensive than just run the few cycles ;) < 1340725031 182452 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340725038 194377 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, let each thread run a large set of programs < 1340725046 48798 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asiajin.com/blog/2009/09/22/uroboros-programming-with-11-programming-languages/ :) < 1340725055 676928 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that currently it runs on 1 core < 1340725059 228016 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I optimized it < 1340725064 734001 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at < 1340725068 425139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :6^11 < 1340725069 318856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, like have the threads running and give them each jobs maybe 1000 programs to test from a shared work queue < 1340725088 271808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems the optimal way to do it for a single-computer situation < 1340725089 99346 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means 6046617 programs per minute < 1340725114 75569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340725116 252420 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means 2.5 years ;) < 1340725139 943118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so maybe not 1000 but instead 100000 programs per batch < 1340725148 698064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340725152 442739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, you could easily cut that if you have a multi-core CPU < 1340725176 242796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even multiple computers. I have cycles to spare if you write a distributed version (Brainfuck@HOME?) < 1340725182 545737 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, I don't see char select screen on the left < 1340725191 954899 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1340725199 90647 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be cool @Brainfuck@HOME < 1340725204 255290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340725207 713513 :tswett!~tswett@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you don't? Here, it says 06/26/12 - "Select character." < 1340725230 490087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :06/21/12 - "==>" < 1340725230 758637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, anyway my point is that this seems like a trivial thing to parallelize. < 1340725236 967409 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340725242 403322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, how are you enumerating the programs < 1340725245 440188 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't have a multi core at home < 1340725252 155123 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I did not really bother to try to hard ;) < 1340725266 40866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, I have a 4 core 3.4 GHz 64-bit core i7 (with hyper threading on top of the 4 cores) < 1340725277 753618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I could help < 1340725293 966318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sandy bridge, so not the very last generation any longer < 1340725314 98044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a /simple/ way to enumerate the set of *valid* programs < 1340725327 927643 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The easiest thing probably would be to give "ranges of programs" to clients @Brainfuck@HOME < 1340725336 922434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the extra @ at the start? < 1340725341 669361 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we'd need to find a way to verify that they actually run it. < 1340725354 374109 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's like @Vorpal ;) < 1340725358 322071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Marks the topic of my sentence < 1340725361 463641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1340725378 622227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes obviously you give ranges of programs < 1340725390 203556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what you would do for multi-core scheduling too < 1340725394 486591 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340725404 180882 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I give them away I need to be sure that they were run. < 1340725409 639139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run correctly < 1340725434 122253 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Else somebodys client might crash in the middle < 1340725440 216676 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'd miss solutions :D < 1340725474 886827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to write the program to keep track of where it left off. Presumably track which chunk you got to < 1340725491 946009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway where did you get the 2.5 year figure from? The length of the longest of the known solutions? < 1340725495 742376 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, some bad guy could just say "Yeah, I tested that range." < 1340725507 360431 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1340725515 205760 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@longest known solution < 1340725515 736942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1340725532 693728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, riiight, brainfuck research is a high profile target for sabotaging < 1340725537 351033 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340725556 186087 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write something with no security checks ;) < 1340725557 746395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, I need to find a good icon for this... < 1340725561 668257 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind runing python :) < 1340725569 25947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(android status bar notification, ICS style) < 1340725576 484924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, python?! < 1340725589 542538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are number crunching in python? < 1340725596 60132 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn < 1340725608 829171 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340725611 41014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah ;) < 1340725620 281374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you are doing is essentially a number crunching task. Python is /not/ suited for that < 1340725631 365586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the few areas I would actually suggest using C < 1340725637 583240 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will rewrite it in C ;) < 1340725642 580013 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's no problem. < 1340725656 995118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will probably cut the time by a lot that way < 1340725719 710275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1340725729 860270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if openmp would be useful for this < 1340725731 913273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be < 1340726754 230281 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1340728511 616539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm checking out the android source code is taking forever < 1340728528 495535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and all I wanted was getting at the system icons!) < 1340728547 628099 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340728556 473691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my c version currently crashes when compiled with gcc -O9 < 1340728562 177655 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not with gcc -O0. < 1340728564 431068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no -O9 < 1340728575 931170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything higher than -O3 is the same as -O3 < 1340728587 943788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they changed something very recently < 1340728608 796560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just checked on gcc 4.4.3) < 1340728614 589684 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it crashes with -O3 < 1340728617 331813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340728620 102462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about -O2? < 1340728622 204392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -O1? < 1340728623 131328 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and -O2 < 1340728634 870941 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O1 runs fine. < 1340728660 107353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, try valgrind on the -O0 binary and see if the program does anything stupid (that might not cause issues with -O0 or -O1 perhaps) < 1340728686 30898 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't help I would suggest compiling with -O2 -ggdb3 to be able to at least see which function it crashes in < 1340728742 583826 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: is this true for all programs you try to compile? < 1340728775 197160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340728783 534613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is AnotherTest? < 1340728785 114984 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually surprised it does not crash with -O1 < 1340728785 966942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :new user? < 1340728791 506348 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it should < 1340728796 647697 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: relatively new you could say < 1340728811 479703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, so not just a long time user testing with some unusual irc client setup? < 1340728824 122260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :your nick /sounded/ like that :P < 1340728824 926995 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1340728827 889363 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's really the intention < 1340728841 391273 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have got that reaction from a number of members here :p < 1340728849 859536 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe I should change :p) < 1340728864 846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well I seen people test using irc with telnet and what not before < 1340728872 961214 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes at < 1340728878 256466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc zzo used to use telnet for irc until he wrote his own client even < 1340728878 820246 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch(program[iptr]) < 1340728879 762294 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with < 1340728887 35206 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) inspect iptr < 1340728887 234115 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 = 2 < 1340728887 234332 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) inspect program < 1340728887 234445 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2 = 0x804a008 "<-]+" < 1340728896 368465 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a segmentation fault. < 1340728898 174626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, inspect = print? < 1340728914 639907 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect is gdb < 1340728917 759382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(zzo's client is probably the only irc client with an option to turn off automatic ping replies!) < 1340728921 537928 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wich prints it, yes. < 1340728934 618797 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :program[iptr] points to ']' according to gdb < 1340728934 817634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure print works in gdb < 1340728938 865844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what I used < 1340728944 666898 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) inspect program[iptr] < 1340728945 423499 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :$3 = 93 ']' < 1340728959 719838 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that seems not to be a cause for a segfault. < 1340728977 811964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay this stuff is not helpful without the code. And I'm kind of semi-busy with understanding how Android foreground services work < 1340728980 333032 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so it's a specific problem; in that case it's either unexpected behavior or something or a bug in gcc I would say < 1340728992 812040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :android programming is somewhat annoying due to the unusual life cycle of objects < 1340729025 147000 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: could you paste the part where things go wrong? < 1340729030 792023 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1340729057 513408 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/EM1bHFjg < 1340729066 348196 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes boom at line 11 with -O2 and higher. < 1340729122 363588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this is very annoying to debug: I need to debug what happens when I remove or insert the USB cable < 1340729129 36903 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1340729147 192746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm writing an app that deals with charging on/off state) < 1340729168 948229 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340729171 137068 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not much of a C guy(more C++, forgive me) but I'll try to see if I can find something < 1340729175 23848 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the error is *in the switch* < 1340729180 880544 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of at switch(program[iptr]) < 1340729183 620663 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :or before it < 1340729186 723433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, I'll take a quick look < 1340729196 773988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, did you try valgrind yet? < 1340729205 583088 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume program is an array which contains the characters in your source code? < 1340729218 995821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, if it is a segfault when accessing an array it might be an out-of-bounds access < 1340729231 119355 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Vorpal says < 1340729237 55999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and optimising could confuse gdb about the actual index, I had that happen to me) < 1340729245 99878 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind doesn't report anything suspicious. < 1340729249 33380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1340729263 999865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait your array is on the stack < 1340729264 371611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Yes, program is an array containing the code. < 1340729274 434300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, for valgrind debugging purposes, malloc the array instead. < 1340729280 51297 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: is PROG_MAX_STEPS the max. index for sure? < 1340729286 302492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind can't detect if you overflow into another variable on the stack < 1340729290 388836 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: That's not an index. < 1340729294 720628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, that when optimised might be in a register instead < 1340729311 700175 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: sorry, meant to say steps < 1340729327 176103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1340729334 107986 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah valgrind is not so useful for stuff on the stack in general < 1340729377 255757 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Yes @steps. < 1340729381 121002 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1340729384 578047 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but steps has nothing to do with array access. < 1340729386 13061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that doesn't help I would try valgrind on the optimised code. < 1340729406 751408 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it's not 100% sure yet that it's the array access < 1340729472 631141 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is program like really big? < 1340729475 181340 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1340729478 490667 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mroman < 1340729481 367208 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1340729482 707782 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1340729493 47389 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:41 < mroman> $2 = 0x804a008 "<-]+" < 1340729496 138495 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if short would overflow < 1340729499 727762 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that long. < 1340729500 764988 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't be nice < 1340729565 215597 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess that would have nothing to do with optimization < 1340729575 997471 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/AaJvlSQl < 1340729578 612199 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- valgrind. < 1340729591 961412 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, does your code compile with other compilers? < 1340729614 383558 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 45 would be the switch(program[iptr]) < 1340729711 126238 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry; I don't understand why that code breaks when optimized < 1340729718 375679 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) inspect cptr < 1340729718 574555 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :$3 = < 1340729724 63246 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it optimizes away cptr :D < 1340729727 740046 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340729731 450143 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile! < 1340729733 492519 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1340729772 87228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, presumably it ended up in a register, volatile would likely work to make it show up for debugging < 1340729794 968944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, also you might want to run valgrind with --db-attach=yes to make it attach on the first of the many errors listed < 1340729796 733246 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340729801 624872 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with volatile it does not crash anymore ;) < 1340729806 67629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1340729811 442720 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1340729820 264094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile is going to slow things down though < 1340729823 167279 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1340729838 99609 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would try to debug it further < 1340729865 301397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, but it /might/ actually be a compiler bug. I would suggest testing with clang or another non-gcc C compiler. < 1340729867 115762 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if optimizations make code break, the code either has a bug or the optimization is bad < 1340729894 288520 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, which gcc version are you using? < 1340729906 256062 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc --version < 1340729914 102783 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cptr is -15 < 1340729929 72011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wonder why that happened < 1340729934 339524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It crashes still, if I don't make iptr and steps volatile too < 1340729935 148630 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look good to me :p < 1340729945 278152 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I make iptr and steps volatile too it does not crash anymore. < 1340729947 723355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340729953 940384 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cptr -15 is definitely a no-go :) < 1340729956 3782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, how did cptr end up at -15? < 1340729968 659752 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm trying to find out right now. < 1340729990 518757 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :This means, that it executes case ']' < 1340729999 383012 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which decreases the pointer in a while(iptr >= 0) loop < 1340729999 855315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, your program parses text every time to search for matching [? < 1340730015 805188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than building a tree representing the program and executing that < 1340730017 500273 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Currently yes, not very optimal though. < 1340730025 582836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even keeping a stack of [ < 1340730028 748186 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340730055 106128 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340730091 448405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, personally I would build a quick tree representing the program (possibly doing trivial optimisation at the same time, such as keeping a running count of + and - and merging them, probably not worth doing much more in this case) < 1340730170 720338 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Vorpal says is probably faster < 1340730187 995311 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that matters for so small programs. < 1340730217 439071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*makes a big performance increase < 1340730228 966587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably easier to implement though < 1340730236 724266 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :iptr--; while(iptr >= 0) { iptr--; } < 1340730245 917051 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what case would that leave iptr at -15 o_O < 1340730261 935636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm thunderstorm < 1340730309 196264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: When iptr is -14. < 1340730313 462968 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340730313 661559 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well iptr-- if iptr was at -14 < 1340730385 620311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1340730400 281509 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340730401 476139 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1340730415 610210 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's % is not always positive :) < 1340730552 76696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may want &= 255 for that operation. < 1340730593 217988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though really, wouldn't it be easier to make cptr an unsigned char too, assuming you can assume CHAR_BIT == 8. < 1340730612 868720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if you can do that, doing %= 256 on memory[x] is not useful.) < 1340730637 332282 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. < 1340730645 971615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340730667 923330 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo is slow anyway. < 1340730714 96235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo with a constant 256 is probably going to be optimized to something doing the bitmask plus a few extra instructions to handle the negative case. < 1340730749 870904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at some of the things msvc, clang and gcc turn int i; i /= k; where k is a constant and k = 2^n with an integral n. < 1340730755 504701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were kind of fancy. < 1340730819 907713 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340730827 938468 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is WAY faster than python at least :) < 1340730833 755964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them involved the instruction that sign-extends eax to edx (i.e. fills it with zeros or ones; it's used for preparing for div, which divides the full edx:eax pair) and then anding some constant with it, to get either the constant or 0. < 1340730841 232028 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already at 130 in just a few seconds :D < 1340730853 413460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the paste, case '[' doesn't seem to be tracking nesting depth. < 1340730920 693299 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1340730922 360415 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug :) < 1340731018 827978 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fixed. < 1340731051 579583 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/qkTR6fAe so far. < 1340731435 687031 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1340731457 520227 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[+[+>]<<+]> produces 88. < 1340731482 353387 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is shorter than any previous program that produces 88. < 1340731495 167616 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the wiki there are 13 Byte versions. < 1340731511 25443 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :++[>+<---]>++ <- 13b < 1340731521 63367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[+[+>]<<+]> <- 12b < 1340731540 249286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like it goes through your whole 256-cell tape, though. < 1340731548 41550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wraps over. < 1340731560 243962 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be. < 1340731563 935053 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to verify that. < 1340731589 644842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the +[+>] component will. < 1340731610 231184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1340731618 136592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1340731623 607712 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread that as +[>+]. < 1340731628 987293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it doesn't, at that. < 1340731646 796203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With just 1500 cycles or so, it'd be strange it it had time to wrap around many times. < 1340731712 840694 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the unbalanced loops are kinda scary, it might be doing something rather bizarroid. < 1340731740 91318 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technical term) < 1340731761 137743 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1340731915 442764 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it seems to work in different interpreters. < 1340731952 479340 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/impl/interp/i.html < 1340731960 720810 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses an array of size 32768 < 1340731968 368733 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess. < 1340731977 242233 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understand the obfuscated source code well enough. < 1340732067 236161 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bf +[+[+>]<<+]>. < 1340732073 137672 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1340732074 175205 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1340732075 966 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1340732078 727641 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1340732079 989150 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bf: not found < 1340732080 186750 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1340732083 263467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+[+>]<<+]>. < 1340732084 179843 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1340732090 221034 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is 88. < 1340732091 169926 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1340732101 6367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1340732115 334984 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a... thousand-cell tape, IIRC. Or something like that, anyway. < 1340732143 852825 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340732155 139269 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +[+[+>]<<+]>. < 1340732156 838019 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X < 1340732160 759641 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very, very large tape. < 1340732170 886550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to wrap around the tape. < 1340732174 294520 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be meandering around in cells -1, 0 and 1. < 1340732181 671351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it starts from 0, that is. < 1340732193 472052 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that !bf accepts -1, it should segfault if you do that. Maybe. < 1340732213 523202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works with different starting positions as well. < 1340732241 953971 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :With start pos = 10 < 1340732257 554737 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's using cell 11,10 and 9 < 1340732283 311344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. So it's a (12, 3) solution, pretty much. < 1340732297 375120 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say so < 1340732301 51909 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(12, 3) (wrapping) < 1340732332 724824 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I add it to the list? < 1340732341 771201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not the kind of thing that a human is likely to write. < 1340732342 527304 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :including or without a warning about unbalanced loops? < 1340732425 23032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could add a comment that the three cells include neighbours on both sides; I wouldn't be surprised if all the existing programs only used space to the right of the start. (But it doesn't say anywhere that that'd have to be the case.) < 1340732583 765920 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a 12 B solution for 168. < 1340732600 643109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++[-<+++++++>]<.>>[ look ma, no segfault ] < 1340732601 86824 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1340732604 410951 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf -[-[->]<<-]>. < 1340732604 909587 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​� < 1340732612 719785 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340732613 347370 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340732632 668234 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non printable < 1340732638 77388 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf -[-[->]<<-]>. < 1340732638 625076 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :� < 1340732674 141870 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also using -1,0,1 cells. < 1340732690 76597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shows up as a diaeresis/umlaut here, which would be correct for latin-1 168. < 1340732695 145038 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same as 88 < 1340732701 322079 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of adding 88 it subtracts 88 of course. < 1340732834 114789 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340732838 74299 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another solution :D < 1340732870 231032 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :13B for 89. < 1340732879 474168 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously 12B 88 plus a '+' < 1340732925 571382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess, you might have a 14-character solution for 90, a 15-character for 91, and so on up to a 19-character to 95. < 1340732929 96459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those all are improvements. < 1340732946 570451 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :) < 1340732948 299608 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1340732949 492664 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll se < 1340733026 807746 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 167 of course. < 1340733029 908794 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such ;) < 1340733144 501779 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have a 13B solution for 56. < 1340733151 946214 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of 17B < 1340733175 474733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that look like? < 1340733233 487524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[++>+[+<]>]>. < 1340733238 588262 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to use cell 0,1 and 2 < 1340733249 390535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf -[++>+[+<]>]>. < 1340733250 260181 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1340733254 893584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works there. < 1340733257 392257 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not going to the left. < 1340733324 864404 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very surprised. < 1340733336 29602 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect to find any solution not previously known. < 1340733343 393959 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340733348 446967 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :got another for 200 < 1340733363 666781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coincidentally, 200 + 56 is 256. < 1340733372 685192 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340733374 622784 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1340733378 162102 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same but with - < 1340733387 417545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck constant optimization is not exactly a terribly popular field. < 1340733406 985062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you get improved 55, 57, 58, 59 (and the negative versions) from that. < 1340733462 431483 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1340733684 51514 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1340733697 397651 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to pause right now :) < 1340733733 953274 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give my poor cpu a little bit to rest. < 1340733804 55715 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I may have been able to help you reduce the code size of your brainfuck programs :D < 1340733825 860967 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll contiune the program next day. < 1340733862 697694 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: implying your brain contains a CPU? < 1340733874 189817 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340734081 8230 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. < 1340734091 318774 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to do work on my computer right no. < 1340734102 111989 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other work ;) < 1340734111 407589 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1340734158 194896 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah I see, it's fun not to have to work(for now) < 1340734820 528197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340734951 254242 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340735168 71755 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1340735301 994289 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting the feeling that 1500 Cycles is a too low limit. < 1340735303 606894 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1340735312 444736 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-[++>+[+<]>]> runs in 1482 cycles. < 1340735318 786003 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it just barely made it. < 1340735335 369312 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I might have missed solutions that would have ended at 1600 cycles < 1340735345 154499 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no practical solution to that. < 1340735419 258436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not really a theoretical solution either. But there's the practical solution of optimizing the implementation some more, say for a 2x speedup, then duplicating the limit. < 1340736158 853770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly dislike the new android API docs web page. It scrolls down a bit from the top when you scroll down, thus hiding the header. Including the search field < 1340736167 673476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what idiot thought that was a good idea < 1340736209 892968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, moving the mouse to the top doesn't help < 1340736349 410541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally don't mind websites that work like websites used to, i.e. scroll the whole page. Especially when the alternative is not CSS fixed-positioning but some sort of a blurb that tries to constantly reposition itself to stay in one place with javascript. < 1340736376 49287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the previous android docs design (and thank good, still the design of the offline docs) uses frames < 1340736377 544829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to add a go-to-top button on top of that package browser list, which is kinda weird, since most of the browsers have some sort of a home key. < 1340736380 187960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the header is a bit large < 1340736392 414765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meh < 1340736404 122260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the search field being accessible all the time < 1340736448 365912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway another issue with the new design is that not everything scrolls, the namespace list still behaves as a frame < 1340736454 979122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is inconsistent too < 1340736458 623349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they could incorporate search functionality in that package browser. That's maybe where I'd have looked first. < 1340736500 33096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you notice the arrow-and-line icon that appears above the package browser as soon as the top scrolls out of view? < 1340736500 948282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it searches the various non-reference parts of the site too, like concept overviews and guides < 1340736502 918685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useful < 1340736527 91740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the package browser would be an odd place for it < 1340736529 649466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no I didn't < 1340736542 738040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that jumps to the top of the page < 1340736557 326093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Someone has certainly thought about how people need to jump to the top a lot. < 1340736559 43131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying since I tend to open things in new tabs all the time by middle clicking < 1340736574 676088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't want it to jump to the top just to search < 1340736598 90922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though middle click doesn't work in that search field anyway, I'm pretty sure it used to < 1340736605 576554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the old online version that is < 1340736624 185109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the font they went for is far too blurry IMO < 1340736628 114880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad hinting there < 1340736652 930777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be okay on a high dpi monitor. But that site is not made to be read /on/ the phone! < 1340736745 119148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if it is okay to bind a service in a broadcast receiver registered in the manifest file... < 1340736758 254495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the android application life cycle stuff < 1340736769 363516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as you need something to run in the background it gets complicated < 1340736950 41540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not allowed < 1340736960 648591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am I going to tell my service that stuff then... < 1340737096 122009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they wanted it to be thematically appropriate. (It's the same Roboto font as in Android 4, right?) < 1340737103 978678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340737110 780866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works fine on a 300 dpi monitor < 1340737122 282351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is terrible on a 96 dpi desktop monitor < 1340737126 241046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with full hinting < 1340737139 664316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should browse the Android APIs on your iPad 3. < 1340737146 385191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an ipad? < 1340737161 254235 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that's a 264 dpi screen. < 1340737171 46873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so still less than what my phone has < 1340737175 167641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc is around 320 < 1340737181 956286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More pixels, though. < 1340737183 100098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048x1536 at 9.7 inches. < 1340737186 655546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340737201 852341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 1080p videos look horrible on it then in full screen? < 1340737203 792754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1340737225 908072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could do it at 1920 without people noticing too much. Not many pixels in the border. < 1340737237 389032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also the native resolution of Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition, since that's what it's aimed at. < 1340737269 270136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my broadcast receiver is getting -1 as the charging state when I plug it in. That doesn't even make sense... < 1340737272 765342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They put a 2880x1800 15.4" screen in the latest MacBook Pro. < 1340737276 967667 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wow, you actually have to upscale 1080p. < 1340737282 738645 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1920x1080) < 1340737302 367301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340737308 520915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; especially with 2880 you will probably actually have to. < 1340737311 165033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe my phone is 1920x1080 < 1340737319 609620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty crazy for a phone < 1340737332 591528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than my desktop monitor even (1680x1050) < 1340737361 795074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920x1080 even at 4.5 inches diagonal (and that'd be a *big* phone) would be around 490 dpi. < 1340737375 955808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah misremembered then < 1340737380 979218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway isn't it 4.8? < 1340737388 484015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be, I'm no expert. < 1340737394 9593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right it is 720p < 1340737399 773653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 3.8" < 1340737403 343620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 306 dpi < 1340737408 163633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's reasonable. For some values of. < 1340737408 574884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.8* < 1340737411 639588 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY phone is merely 800x480... < 1340737415 944632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a big phone yes < 1340737430 96288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also quad core CPU < 1340737430 879429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340737434 121352 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine should be 480*360 or something < 1340737442 436162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The N900 is 800x480 at around 3.5", so ~267 dpi. < 1340737479 289757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2880x1800 at 15.4" is "only" 220 dpi, but that's still a lot of pixels. < 1340737481 731566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, android used to have an option in the development menu to prevent the phone from going to sleep while USB was connected. It is missing on this phone. Apparently that is a Samsung thing. < 1340737493 813975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since Galaxy Nexus had it) < 1340737503 37457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm writing a program that does the same thing < 1340737524 297005 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "a Samsung thing" < 1340737524 496523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why they removed it. It was really useful when debugging < 1340737527 472746 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My off-brand tablet has that. < 1340737534 452467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that they removed it? < 1340737541 317613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that removing it was a samsung thing < 1340737546 49666 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohoh, I misunderstood. < 1340737551 190217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340737552 73935 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant that including it is a Samsung thing. < 1340737562 705353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, my Samsung Galaxy S3 is missing that option < 1340737566 246438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the whole point < 1340737572 169868 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nods* < 1340737596 973115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I have to properly learn the android life cycle thingy for services < 1340737600 433152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying < 1340737606 854306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not straight-forward at all < 1340737630 18315 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Straightforward is one word) < 1340737635 376023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1340737655 101476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw anyone know a good android irc client? < 1340737659 771454 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I understand what "life cycle thingy for cervies" means... < 1340737663 963048 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use AndChat, it's not terrible. < 1340737669 884967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1340737721 627401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, in general android activities, services, and so on have pretty strange life cycles (when they are created, suspended, resumed, destroyed and so on) when coming from a desktop programming perspective. < 1340737749 748540 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that they're effectively suspended and destroyed "whenever the OS damn well pleases"? < 1340737764 503937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is that, and in this case I don't want that to happen < 1340737774 143092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means quite a complex set of steps must be performed < 1340737848 88798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a lot of things happen async < 1340737856 217574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when talking between different such objects < 1340737861 285552 :augur!~augur@206.196.186.115 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340737863 242590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even more confusing sometimes < 1340738120 869241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, also for broadcast receivers the extra data sent with the intent seems to be poorly documented < 1340738130 248911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it varies for different intents of course < 1340738146 140424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't find which ones are available for the intent I'm interested in < 1340738182 74862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340738431 951279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logcat log on this thing is huge (~37000 lines), so it takes several seconds for it to load the whole thing in after connecting the device. Which is annoying since I'm debugging how my program handles plugging/unplugging the USB cable atm XD < 1340738455 300941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eclipse loads the whole log after every connect < 1340738596 390601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1340738666 503161 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's probably stupidly difficult to debug. < 1340738670 809318 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of a catch-22. < 1340738718 740528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well logcat thankfully does have a buffer on the device. The issue here is that it is so huge it takes ages to load < 1340738720 717024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't someone using AndroIRC? But I have no first-hand knowledge of these things. < 1340738941 345557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: It's always fun not to work by the way ;) < 1340738957 588955 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remember that :p < 1340738959 177311 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you need money, of course. < 1340738970 636779 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But working for money is the suckers way :D < 1340738977 828031 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't need money as a kid < 1340738979 714418 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340739002 267027 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly we're all suckers then :( < 1340739035 320419 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm currently living with what I saved during apprenticeship. < 1340739058 159560 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340739065 378555 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1340739071 971694 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Vorpal clone. < 1340739092 43217 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using stype < 1340739100 452573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err swype that is XD < 1340739104 225452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't spell to itself < 1340739156 274158 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WLAN is horrible here < 1340739156 666743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be using... that one thing, what was it called. That zoomy flowy thing. < 1340739162 600277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1340739164 332618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dasher. < 1340739165 537895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340739166 143098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1340739167 52166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340739184 416940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a small game every time you want to enter some text. < 1340739213 413668 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smart stay on s3 works better than expected < 1340739232 909561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the camera thing where it tries to see if anyone is looking on the screen before going to sleep < 1340739247 803331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On 22 March 2010, a new Guinness World Record of 35.54 seconds was set for the fastest text message on a touchscreen mobile phone using Swype on the Samsung Omnia II,[7] and reportedly improved on 22 August of the same year to 25.94 using a Samsung Galaxy S." < 1340739263 593153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long was the message < 1340739270 109403 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :160 characters, 25 words. < 1340739277 839022 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah nice < 1340739290 701736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The razor-toothed piranhas of the genera Serrasalmus and Pygocentrus are the most ferocious freshwater fish in the world. In reality they seldom attack a human." < 1340739298 847108 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure I could send "lol" in <25 seconds. < 1340739303 765622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was the message.) < 1340739318 33306 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's commonly known that piranhas can't kill a human just like that ;) < 1340739331 680673 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also swype works better than I expected before I tried it < 1340739350 118325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBC article doesn't mention if he had been writing stuff like "Serrasalmus" and "Pygocentrus" in advance. I suppose those things do some learning? < 1340739362 156442 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably would die from blood poisoning & co. < 1340739386 389481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Only a skeleton is left after about three seconds, I've seen this in comics. < 1340739428 447033 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it isn't swype as such. On older phones there was an IME oil < 1340739430 668186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1340739439 33249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME option* < 1340739444 725372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I hit enter by mistake < 1340739445 643764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1340739452 257394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an IME option called swype < 1340739460 121717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it is included in the default "Samsung keyboard" IME < 1340739488 996624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Nuance bought the Swype company? They're really chomping people up. < 1340739490 319836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do tap or swipe, not sure if you could that with the original swype < 1340739498 575920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are nuance? < 1340739504 273081 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, and terrorist are everywhere. < 1340739508 808193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is my laptop acting like it is swap trashing < 1340739510 789322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit < 1340739522 449638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuance Communications, it's a speech/imaging/language company conglomerate. < 1340739531 775887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although far more people die during falling down their stairs than from terror attacks. < 1340739536 194220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it isn't swap trashing < 1340739537 83632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've been buying other companies like it's going out of style. < 1340739540 772942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it acting like it then < 1340739559 728475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait actually it is. Looks like Linux preferred to use the RAM for cache instead of xchat or X11 < 1340739569 215522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Loquendo, who did... something, I forget exactly what. < 1340739582 6924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am doing IO operations on it) < 1340739605 108809 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D35.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1340739607 80315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A speech thing in some well-known thing, anyway. < 1340739639 894027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of speech. Samsung included a Siri clone < 1340739644 48423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it isn't funny < 1340739650 374859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know what the point is < 1340739656 792156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not like even Siri is remotely useful < 1340739819 753927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since their 2006 merger with ScanSoft, they've bought: Dictaphone Corporation; Mobile Voice Control, Inc.; Focus Informatics, Inc.; Bluestar Resources Ltd.; BeVocal, Inc.; VoiceSignal Technologies, Inc.; Tegic Communications, Inc.; Commissure, Inc.; Vocada, Inc.; Viecore, Inc.; eScription, Inc.; Multivision Communications, Inc.; Philips Speech Recognition Systems GMBH; SNAPin Software, Inc.; a ... < 1340739826 44795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... pile of IBM's patents; Zi Corporation; speech technology department of Harman International Industries; Jott Networks Inc.; nCore Ltd.; Ecopy; Spinvox; MacSpeech; iTa P/L; PerSay; Equitrac; SVOX; Webmedx; Loquendo; Swype; Vlingo; Transcend Services. < 1340739833 501074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that many of those are big companies, but still. < 1340739868 830209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of those companies I hadn't even heard of < 1340739893 895041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they do speechy and voicy stuff. Nothing terribly famous there. < 1340739915 826959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the somewhat known "Dragon ThisAndThat" family of speech things is by Nuance. < 1340739963 27032 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: people like Siri because they think it's actual ai < 1340739969 250775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vlingo I remember seeing in some other context. < 1340739981 26910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I thought they liked it because it was programmed to be somewhat funny < 1340739982 680079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've heard some people claim they actually get some use out of Siri. < 1340740000 840726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of them was a blogging lawyer, and lawyers aren't known to joke. < 1340740005 632916 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: most people I know, know the word programming but do not understand its meaning < 1340740040 852506 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: most people that use the iPhone etc. are such people < 1340740061 482717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also Tegic (in that list of companies) made and patented the "T9" text input, if you've heard of that. < 1340740082 948193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes I know of T9 < 1340740103 946700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that made writing SMS on keypad phones actually possible < 1340740122 923901 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. That made it not actually suck. < 1340740128 533620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also made so many jokes about predictive text input mishaps possible. < 1340740146 712351 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was also kinda an obvious thing if you had used tech in Asia. < 1340740169 31935 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1340740169 360537 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by necessity, text input in CJK is predictive) < 1340740180 492354 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding the actuall number of used cells is not that easy :D < 1340740205 515209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! I found the icon for adb being attached (which doesn't show on my samsung btw, why?) < 1340740209 974179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1340740214 749678 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. < 1340740222 255474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it doesn't show? yes < 1340740232 15797 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-57.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Samsung believe in being blatantly non-stock? < 1340740232 684623 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it seems like a good thing to represent what I'm writing < 1340740238 929179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1340740247 787286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the stuff they do are improvements sure, but only some < 1340740257 228180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among the university students there's a slang term of sorts to say "jalka mk" in place of "kalja ok", i.e. "beer ok", because that's what some phone produced for the corresponding keys. (It's from the SMS-to-Usenet gateway that CS students used to use to announce when they were off partying somewhere, and how things went wrong that time.) < 1340740260 816395 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall write a program that measures cell usage. < 1340740261 41163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like their start application menu, it is better than stock < 1340740268 601762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the UI? nah < 1340740269 701951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, SMS-to-private-news-server, not Usenet per se. < 1340740299 452256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does "kalja ok" mean? < 1340740306 528413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also usenet? you guys still use that? < 1340740311 564305 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "beer ok", like he said. < 1340740317 8964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1340740337 352253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newsgroups are pretty dead nowadays. < 1340740339 524915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find this icon btw, I had to check out 13 GB of android sources < 1340740341 768291 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess most people don't but news.tky.fi is certainly up and running. < 1340740353 634070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, it still *works*. < 1340740359 611600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are posts, just not all that many. < 1340740373 421460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I presume "jalka" doesn't mean anything? < 1340740381 399855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: leg, foot. < 1340740383 756601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of stuff. < 1340740384 450849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340740387 348039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mk? < 1340740388 908462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it wouldn't be predicted. < 1340740393 771748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that doesn't really mean anything. < 1340740404 217104 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Marks? < 1340740408 165246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1340740417 825306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The abbreviation for the previous monetary unit. < 1340740419 827444 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there is this professor(in Java) at the university near where I live(not sure what his name is), and he said that in public methods you should always use the getters rather than the field name directly. Isn't that a little over-pedantic? < 1340740424 374265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you have a word without vowels? < 1340740425 828028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1340740428 291602 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How didn't I think of that? Face to palm. < 1340740428 561265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :abrev < 1340740446 735851 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. 56 and 200 require 4 cells, not 3. < 1340740453 676644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, it is very... object oriented < 1340740463 998748 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, android lint can be set to complain about it < 1340740477 60174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also, the news.tky.fi webterface gives me 403 now. Was it restricted to local use or what? < 1340740477 665080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since apparently it is up to 3x slower with the dalvik VM < 1340740497 842642 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Beats me, I've only used it like once or twice. < 1340740507 272635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to work from work. < 1340740527 235541 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://news.tky.fi/ seems to work for me. < 1340740600 138700 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was just wondering if there's a lot of advantage. Using getters has great advantage if you want to change fields, however, someone who writes public methods should also have written and/or understood the fields?(or else you would have not enough abstraction?) < 1340740618 180577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss ? on the end of function names from scheme, I can't think of a good equivalent of "take-lock?" (a function that decides if we should take a wake lock by looking at the current situation and settings) < 1340740625 181917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hah: < 1340740625 850358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ curl -s -4 -I http://news.tky.fi/ | grep HTTP < 1340740626 49732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 200 OK < 1340740626 49878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ curl -s -6 -I http://news.tky.fi/ | grep HTTP < 1340740626 49981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden < 1340740626 408269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340740633 872553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IPv6 breaks the day again. < 1340740641 805389 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs181243217.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340740654 670441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I think C#/.NET properties is a nice solution to the issue. < 1340740656 127208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1340740669 295861 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, have seen that < 1340740679 424971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a reasonable one < 1340740682 57433 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just not doing it :p < 1340740683 603805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still object oriented < 1340740690 339792 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or doesn't that count :p?) < 1340740695 111527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, my suggestion: go with the policy at the company you work at. Or of the teacher for the course in question. < 1340740700 966606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your own code? Do what you prefer < 1340740714 4796 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have a teacher, nor a company < 1340740715 867808 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1340740719 140317 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also a tradition to post a fixed-content disparaging message to the "-h" newsgroup (mostly CS students) whenever someone left their account logged-in at one of the university workstations. < 1340740724 246075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I don't do getters or setters if they would be just this.foo = foo < 1340740728 412550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or return foo; < 1340740740 704973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are making an API? < 1340740744 884682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is trickier < 1340740745 364803 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see last one is from April 5th, so either the tradition has gotten less common, or people have gotten better at not leaving unlocked computers unattended. < 1340740755 194616 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what is best then for maintaining it < 1340740775 588984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, from within the same class I wouldn't use "pointless" getters/setters < 1340740783 468583 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I do as you do it seems. I'm not writing an API, although my project is quite big. < 1340740796 18556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Re ?, you can do what Lisp folks do and substitute in "P". < 1340740805 328766 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know have a program which accept a range of programs to calculate. < 1340740822 135525 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that you can run different processes with different ranges on each core. < 1340740826 94282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1340740833 539292 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accepts < 1340740846 305714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or I could confuse every haskell programmer out there and call it maybeTakeLock < 1340740855 80061 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have to generate a list of ranges first. < 1340740858 988528 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe tomorrow :) < 1340740887 848407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, s/know/now/ < 1340740940 208134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That name also sort of suggests it would actually do take the lock if necessary, and not just check whether it should. < 1340740980 34336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1340740988 43461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the P thing would just confuse me < 1340740994 220086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not sure what I would call it < 1340740996 996054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"takeLockP" is I think the combination of Lisp P-for-predicate and Java CamelCase. < 1340741011 136400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's probably not a good idea. < 1340741044 502059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it isn't < 1340741046 82607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can call it mustTakeLock if you want your programs to look like English. ("if (mustTakeLock) ...") < 1340741053 500437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiee < 1340741062 947737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldWeTakeLock? < 1340741064 965563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit long < 1340741073 32930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "We" sounds out of place < 1340741082 124102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "mustWeTakeLock" sounds like it is whining about it < 1340741083 154637 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesTheOneHasTheHonourToTakeTheLock? < 1340741098 580438 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :takethYeOldeLocke? < 1340741099 664288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I presume it is a reference. I don't get it however. < 1340741101 212908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mustWeTakeTheLockAgainReallyOhMan. < 1340741105 628193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, heh < 1340741108 103873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1340741158 889983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'is'/'has' prefix is a conventional for boolean-returning methods, but it's not really all that applicable here. isItLockingTimeAgain? < 1340741160 108755 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just an overly long identifier name, intended as a parody on long names < 1340741170 388730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventional in Java, that is. < 1340741185 467864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, ah < 1340741206 94698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, that is why I have the silly field "isUSB" < 1340741207 62796 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but I must say l isn't much better :p < 1340741210 395005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indicating if we are on USB < 1340741230 325106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I was kind of aiming for a balance in between those extremes yeah < 1340741239 739487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :'isLockNeeded' is kind of tame, but preferrably you'd have some sort of closer match to other things, maybe. < 1340741252 513242 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :needsLock < 1340741255 508650 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's bad < 1340741288 375833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a "release-lock?" as well btw < 1340741315 364792 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you want generality for sure < 1340741334 325810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm, actually I can rewrite it as one function and move the check of the current state of locking elsewhere < 1340741335 796097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340741344 420054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case "needsLock" is fine < 1340741348 447919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or isLockNeeded < 1340741358 36105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :isLochNess. < 1340741405 270286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :enums behave silly in switch blocks btw < 1340741409 979951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1340741412 123272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :inconsistent < 1340741424 153799 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everywhere else you need to qualify it like MyEnum.VALUE < 1340741428 130759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there it is just VALUE < 1340741454 331024 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of enums, I like C++11's strong enums < 1340741497 345995 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1340741499 872986 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340741504 500376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, java is being stupid. The end of the function /is/ unreachable < 1340741511 808756 :AnotherTest!~Test@d51A4C6EE.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340741529 125495 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh. yeah @know. < 1340741557 788322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never learnt how to write english :D < 1340741568 132865 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt it by listening. < 1340741581 400996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu? < 1340741608 476151 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I've < 1340741720 1332 :rvchangue!~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue QUIT :Quit: 　 < 1340741753 814875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, I'm surprised < 1340741788 916154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I had english in school years ago. < 1340741789 563318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sadly, the rules of switch don't let you write it as switch (enumvalue.ordinal()) { case MyEnum.VALUE.ordinal(): ... } for consistency. < 1340741799 501754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340741804 243100 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but leaning languages in school is pretty much useless. < 1340741806 501254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*learning < 1340741807 401780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that what it translates to? < 1340741810 299080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems terrible < 1340741818 687067 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides < 1340741831 348249 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I like red cars. I like them because they are red" < 1340741832 233144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MyEnum.VALUE.ordinal() isn't constant enough for a case label is why.) < 1340741840 221991 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably the niveau of school english. < 1340741849 484063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, "niveau"? < 1340741851 904391 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else I learned by watching american television shows. < 1340741869 81493 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1340741872 82730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :niveau = level < 1340741875 280450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340741878 724080 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a french word ;) < 1340741884 443760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so save as Swedish "nivå" then < 1340741944 221318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange question here.. what does it mean for an Ada, Common Lisp or REBOL program to have a loop condition in the middle of the loop? < 1340741971 436349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it translates probably into either the 'tableswitch' or the 'lookupswitch' bytecode, if you look deeply enough. But to something approximating that code, anyway. < 1340741991 141161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that the constants are consecutive, I guess tableswitch. < 1340742012 109549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340742012 308268 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just know how an english word sounds and guess how to spell it :) < 1340742028 41966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you seem to know a lot about java bytecode? < 1340742051 552515 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've browsed the specification now and then. I had some sort of vague plans for something I've forgotten. < 1340742061 173694 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it probably means that it would look something like { ... while(condition) ... } < 1340742068 402579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out the verification rules make doing exotic things impossible. < 1340742112 164156 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89B32.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340742118 39809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is that rule? < 1340742163 841816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's all kinds of rules. But one of them makes it so that you can't (at least easily) translate a general stack-based language to Java bytecode in such a way that the VM stack would be used as the language's stack, because if some point of the code can be reached via multiple paths, all the various paths must have provably identical stack effects. < 1340742180 886254 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:12 ln *.o libglfw.a -lOpenGL32 -lpng < 1340742181 85314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't do any sort of "loop until stack empty" sort of things. < 1340742197 850951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'd hit the loop start with different stacks.) < 1340742201 928028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1340742219 919232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^disregard < 1340742260 521874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do the values have to be the same, or just the number of elements and their types? < 1340742281 738197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no computed jumps either, all targets must be known bytes that are start of one opcode. < 1340742300 796312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check how the exact wording was. < 1340742326 977429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same stack depth regardless of the path taken. < 1340742333 650084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340742354 840821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1340742376 37683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it help the optimiser that much? < 1340742388 888003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is going to be JIT-compiled anyway < 1340742403 703922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they determine the maximum stack depth at compile time. < 1340742420 445571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340742424 181096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be harder, I suppose. < 1340742442 55380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how can they do that though, recursive functions would mess that u < 1340742443 711585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :up* < 1340742459 37917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stack is local to the function. < 1340742471 794069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they pass parameters then? < 1340742481 928035 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1340742495 362588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such a stack sounds terribly inefficient, allocating a stack for each function call < 1340742496 211748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'invokeblah' opcodes pop them off the local stack. (It's a different thing than the call stack.) < 1340742524 691226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is JVM stack or register based btw? < 1340742528 545075 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack. < 1340742528 744247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess stack based? < 1340742533 329927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340742558 742370 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly going to be very many elements deep. I don't think values usually live on it from one statement to the next; it just converts expressions into stack-based opcodes. < 1340742578 360253 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the JIT will revamp it back to register-oriented machine code. < 1340742601 952358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dalvik is IIRC a register-based arch. < 1340742607 60858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why do they use a stack based vm < 1340742628 170763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not in the book. Or at least I haven't noticed it yet. < 1340742645 538604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1340742654 614238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Java Virtual Machine Specification book. < 1340742657 120339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean why did Sun decide to use stack based < 1340742661 369356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really deal in whys. < 1340742662 177080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the JVM is stack based < 1340742663 769920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said < 1340742666 313086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340742667 172395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340742683 443871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not all that uncommon; .Net's bytecode uses a stack-based architecture too, unless I misremember. < 1340742731 225763 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Llvm and dalvik are both register based though. < 1340742761 670157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're also sort of more modern. < 1340742764 867004 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they inherited some of that stuff from Self. < 1340742793 427710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how that thing's internals looked, but they had some JIT stuffs that I think ended up in Java's HotSpot. < 1340742804 669676 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the lag between your messages arriving on my laptop and this phone is very large. < 1340742816 326972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange since they are both currently on the same WLAN < 1340742825 79153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is no such lag in sending < 1340742884 899425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typing on swype may be fast compared to non-swype on phone, but I really wish there was something as fast as a laptop keyboard on a phone (no those tiny keyboards like your nokia has are not as fast as laptop keyboards) < 1340742897 816485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Self"? < 1340742985 801970 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :The (AFAIK) first language with prototypical inheritance, a Smalltalk dialect < 1340742996 18409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds like a reasonable summary. < 1340743015 947364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also involved people went to Sun and worked on the Java JIT. < 1340743018 710460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a language with stereotypical inheritance? < 1340743041 969030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340743065 951344 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, < 1340743122 846813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1340743130 163446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do spinners work in Android for fixed translatable strings... gah < 1340743141 556001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only populated spinners from code before. < 1340743166 436907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, like that. Right < 1340743207 938789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually to be slightly more accurate, the "operand stack" (spec term; what the VM instructions operate on) is in fact part of the stack frame on the "real stack" (my term). It has that smallish fixed maximum depth, so it's not all that resource-intensive, I suppose. So it's not separate stacks, at least conceptually. < 1340743226 94292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340743372 823297 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :VorpalPhone, Testing highlight < 1340743375 573822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340743397 917592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it did a nick column like xchat < 1340743401 546338 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that easier to read < 1340743664 507961 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@h34n5c1o291.bredband.skanova.com QUIT :Changing host < 1340743664 706703 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340743805 611431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the VorpalPhone go snickersnack? < 1340743835 93893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1340743843 389734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, let me try < 1340743856 738823 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sticker snack < 1340743865 658617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is swype for you < 1340743870 352237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1340743887 745090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thinks stickers are more edible than snickers, i take < 1340743903 364360 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snickers really satisfies < 1340743906 669208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I went with first suggestion < 1340743933 201737 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im allergic to peanuts < 1340743935 202779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck snickers < 1340743983 222016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't convince my doctor i'm allergic.. i just get an awful reaction that i have to spit and spit and perhaps take anvil < 1340744036 38885 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :advil < 1340744093 516706 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to recollect to check auto identify < 1340744099 689428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reconnect* < 1340744105 283795 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1340744124 9626 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340744130 969286 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1340744448 867946 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to try randomly dragging around to see what I get . < 1340744508 605210 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Divisive bridal vocabulary history Cisco Hutchison subdivision search zero workshop wagon worn posh high ennui caucus vista Chicago citizen < 1340744511 683996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1340744677 102220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you played Tale of Monkey Island right? < 1340744682 469832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I misremember < 1340744689 854742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more recent game that is < 1340744721 816447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... http://www.sheldoncomics.com/ < 1340744737 70020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw it was 60% off on gog, not sure if it is worth it still at $14 < 1340744934 700074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1340745048 356135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so was it worth that price? < 1340745057 537067 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340745071 19429 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340745080 431822 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Client Quit < 1340745163 625113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really answer questions of worth. It wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't terribly good either. I did have some fun with it. Some of the parts were on the boring side, and I vaguely recall there were some frustrating bits, but perhaps that's to be expected. Anyway, the writing wasn't bad (in my subjective opinion), which I suppose was a big plus. < 1340745212 491889 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1340745217 351665 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Released 3 years ago and alreayd on gog? < 1340745226 679730 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't sell for long... < 1340745229 647542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old" is the new new. < 1340745250 93943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how do you compare it to MI1, MI2 and MI3? < 1340745252 82172 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got all five for some not terribly large amounts of money, Telltale themselves were having some sort of a thing. < 1340745274 541074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, there are some new releases on gog happening nowdays (apart from their own witcher series I mean) < 1340745292 973856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess they are looking for extra revenue < 1340745337 929066 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, they are the episodic game guys < 1340745382 780554 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1340745400 373949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It wasn't as consistently good as I remember those games being, but that could be nostalgia talking. But the best moments were in the same ballpark. Also, I kind of like puns, and there was some amount of those. I suppose the puzzles weren't all that clever, all in all. < 1340745410 1477 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't feel like playing MI with 3D graphics .__. < 1340745424 324845 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it takes ages to do 2D animation but somebody could at least try .__. < 1340745425 398711 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although < 1340745429 92418 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I think of it < 1340745430 757688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it looks different, that's certainly true. < 1340745432 824044 :nortti!jhaverin@evo.paivola.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay. I ported unix v7 ed to windows < 1340745435 11489 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a kickstarter for something like that lately < 1340745479 719469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: There was at least that Double Fine Adventure kickstarter. < 1340745484 947811 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable for getting so much money. < 1340745491 8053 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, you know they made special editions with completely redrawn graphics of MI1 and MI2? < 1340745497 489797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :new music, and voice acting as well < 1340745501 609781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same puzzles though < 1340745509 220561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They got $3,336,371 of their $400,000 goal. < 1340745526 884496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the special editions are fancy in that they allow you to swap between the original and the new graphics at any time you like. < 1340745534 487797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they do that topo < 1340745535 753405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too* < 1340745543 80134 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...realy? < 1340745552 340619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :watched a bit of an LP of MI2 special edition < 1340745554 151982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked good < 1340745567 220511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really interested in the LP itself though < 1340745572 88444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if I can find it < 1340745617 412851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De2xdeIrtTI < 1340745626 520434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, you might want to check if that is something in your taste < 1340745626 731957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of tempted to take part in that kickstarting thing since you could've gotten the game from it for just $15, but in the end sort of forgot. < 1340745652 212567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-, oh wait, it actually starts here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcyFF1wIQPs < 1340745684 730984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also kickstarters involve some economical risk < 1340745720 9251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there really haven't been any major game kickstarters before. So we can't really compare successrate yet. < 1340745725 197178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :success rate* < 1340745740 336961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from the Psychonauts folks, so they should know how to do fun, or so people at least say; and Tim Schafer should know a thing or two about adventure games. < 1340745777 259493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose cautious optimism is warranted. < 1340745779 610168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they might not know how to do it economically though. < 1340745786 283493 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant idea #51: inhaling capsaicin. http://youtu.be/7bKTsmIBIao < 1340745786 908974 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1340745787 348872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sure, I do think they will manage < 1340745823 101385 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, i’ve been playing TSOMI:SE since yesterday. < 1340746030 608557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, TSOMI? < 1340746053 197027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh MI2 < 1340746055 881180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or MI1 < 1340746062 3113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :MI1 right? < 1340746189 645865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay my screen waker program works < 1340746216 424087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :need some GUI polish though < 1340746235 660626 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1340746250 716344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gooey polish, check < 1340746277 940543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, like, you know, saving your settings < 1340746301 750088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but why do you want them in polish < 1340746326 417134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340746342 950850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, currently the UI looks terrible. I should upload a screenshot < 1340746378 846726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets try the built in stuff for that < 1340746522 742130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/Screenshot_2012-06-26-23-32-49.png < 1340746561 8730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this phone came with 50 GB on dropbox for 2 years btw, kind of nice, what with how expensive it was) < 1340746569 483181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very minimalistic < 1340746577 871117 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inhaling anything besides air sounds suspect to me < 1340746578 550905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also doesn't save settings yet < 1340746588 108868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway the start/stop service buttons are going away < 1340746595 267830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not relevant really except when debugging < 1340746601 252290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: nose drops < 1340746638 894314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also I plan to add a notification thingy for it < 1340746648 532221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the notification screen you know < 1340746675 513048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, i don't have a smartphone < 1340746717 335295 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1340746778 576495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this screen, you reach it from anywhere by dragging down from the top of the screen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/Screenshot_2012-06-26-23-38-20.png < 1340746795 680593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows stuff like that listed there, also things like "you got new mail" < 1340746852 99980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1340746993 460183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropbox is kind of neat. I just hit the "send to dropbox" on my phone in the gallery, then it showed up within seconds on both my computers < 1340747163 81512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banner ad of the day: an ad for a self-described "combat lightsaber specialist" company. < 1340747201 726816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1340747207 99232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you check out the details? < 1340747262 531297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they sell lightsabers. I don't know how combat-ready they are. Prices generally range from $100 to $200 for single-bladed models, approximately. < 1340747306 701657 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The models have very impressive names. The Dark Initiate LE v3, the Collectors Edition Liberator v3, and so on. < 1340747344 545137 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dart Maul UltraFX Double Hilt with their Premium Obsidian soundboard retails for $649. < 1340747354 456855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Dart/Darth/ obviously. < 1340747379 601451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UltraEdge blades provide a thick, bright blade due to the white polycarbonate tube. They are as good as the mid-grade blades for dueling purposes." < 1340747389 302311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really know this sort of thing was a thing. < 1340747479 404959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I suppose there's really no reason to be surprised at all.) < 1340747523 564132 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340747582 818568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's when the specification includes amount of kilokelvins you can start being surprised. < 1340747803 920451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Genuine Luxeon III LED installed with high quality heat-sink" "Detachable fiber optic Ultra Blade with polycarbonate blade tip" "Stainless steel retention bolt used to secure blade while also allowing for quick blade removal" sadly it sounds quite like fakery. < 1340747838 830777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a heat-sink _should_ be useful. < 1340747963 683598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are light sabres supposed to work (in the story that is) < 1340747972 333897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sci-fi justification do they have? < 1340747972 949740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crystals, if I recall correctly. < 1340747978 17982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :crystals of what? < 1340747983 759037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "blade" itself? < 1340747990 548350 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean crystals of what? Crystals! < 1340748002 325144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340748002 797054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wookieepedia has quite a lot of *text* about it. < 1340748012 672491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the blade consist of for example < 1340748015 25573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The weapon consisted of a blade of pure plasma emitted from the hilt and suspended in a force containment field. The field contained the immense heat of the plasma, protecting the wielder, and allowed the blade to keep its shape." < 1340748033 704579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pure" plasma contained in what? < 1340748041 137759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the force field. < 1340748045 415300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says right so. < 1340748053 808912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a "the what" as in "I don't believe that" < 1340748064 605568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1340748067 293432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "force containment" < 1340748068 643176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1340748076 349274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"may the force be with you"? < 1340748093 969144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually a regular force field, but I'm not completely sure. < 1340748094 223959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it's not the same force < 1340748106 75205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and how are *those* supposed to work? < 1340748110 547648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for some value of "regular" < 1340748121 340940 :blom!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340748144 514514 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340748145 123728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :next up Vorpal will claim star wars hyperdrive is unrealistic. < 1340748150 847040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1340748159 239523 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primary parts of a lightsaber: the hilt, the pommel cap, the diatium power cell, the inert power insulator, the focusing lens, the lightsaber crystal, the emitter matrix and the blade emitter. Each of those is its own article. < 1340748168 299086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, all FTL travel I seen so far is unrealistic. < 1340748173 321591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't surprise me < 1340748185 148165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wow < 1340748224 967471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main article is 27 A4 pages, printed. < 1340748228 837696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TechnoBabble hth < 1340748248 2365 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly history, though. < 1340748280 995946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The blade emitter was the part of a lightsaber that actually projected the blade. It consisted of the emitter matrix, which further focused the blade after the crystal with a tightly wrapped magnetic field, and the emitter itself, where the blade actually protruded. The emitter possessed the magnetic ring that created the field that contained the plasma of the blade and arced it back to the ... < 1340748287 40877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... lightsaber for reconversion back to electricity." < 1340748318 492229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :P < 1340748337 865126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's magnetic containment in this article, so who knows. < 1340748350 413869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't exactly explain how the magnetic field is shaped, anyway. < 1340748355 65711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of course it's history, it happened a long time ago you know < 1340748384 270590 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340748464 906725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, but history-history. You know, the whole story from the Rakatan Forcesabers with their ebon crystals that channel the dark side, through the First Blade and he Duinuogwuin Contention days, up to adoption by the Jedi, the Great Galactic War, and so on. < 1340748576 614461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As everyone knows, it was the Sith Empire that were mostly responsible from refining them from mostly ceremonial tools into a practical weapon, primarily by solving the power supply problem by including an internal superconductor that transferred the returning looping energy from the negative-charged flux aperture back to the power cell. < 1340748587 65430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These are all quotes from Wookieepedia.) < 1340748608 526779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not direct quotations, but the information.) < 1340748665 447279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wonders if "Rakata" is a mangling of Raksha
< 1340748708 108659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rakata is the name of a volcano on the island of Krakatau", according to the 'Behind the scenes' section. < 1340748725 922190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it _is_, but that doesn't prove anything... < 1340748757 803096 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were invented for one of the games, apparently. < 1340749109 642628 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1340749456 74470 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340749527 797998 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they were invented for KOTOR, which is one of the better-regarded games. < 1340749568 90743 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that people these days constantly use it in the phrase "is crap, why can't we go back to the days when things like KOTOR were made". < 1340749589 651019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340749771 596279 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also if you're in the mood for weird Wookiepedia articles, they have a very odd article on 'breast'. < 1340749784 838650 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i try to rant fiercely about what is wrong with todays games... < 1340749807 393369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my usual set of deficiencies plagues me < 1340749898 937773 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reluctance to do actual research, focusing outside of actual practice preferring imaginary practice, spending half my rants correcting the errors i have made so far < 1340749913 559414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1340749965 842559 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as for "why can't we go back to the days when things like KOTOR were made" i -like to think i- rarely make statements of the form "why can't we?" but i probably do anyway < 1340750067 450913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What games do you mean? < 1340750130 425000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike some, i am quite happy to play by fair rules in such discussions (eh i don't know a meaning discussion vs debate vs rant) < 1340750143 716845 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is a good question < 1340750183 909004 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340750230 683804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order for a modern game to be categorized as inferior to a past game, some kind of analysis of what is actually wrong should take place < 1340750248 375573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1340750273 186986 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, the burden of proof is really on the gameplayer to prove that somehow their experiences with the modern game are unsatisfactory in some way < 1340750284 95736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1340750303 512193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose in reality, comparison to past games is really a special case, and a mistake < 1340750320 47555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps yes it may be one special case < 1340750347 453659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be related to how one can grow weary of something < 1340750355 640981 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the lens of nostalgia < 1340750357 83212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In many computer games one problem may be that the scoring could be improved from how they had made it < 1340750394 58189 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how we measure what we like is probably relative to what is available < 1340750469 496910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people don't have time to carry on about these questions < 1340750471 768803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like to < 1340750499 767859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be necessary to go back to aristotle to uncover some of the answers < 1340750511 603772 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a fallacy that good graphics are more desirable < 1340750517 634853 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1340750534 173735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the fallacy is that "good" is ill-defined i suppose < 1340750550 571416 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What graphics are needed may also depend on the game < 1340750561 334606 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is pointless to say the desirable graphics are desirable < 1340750577 414967 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In generaly I think the graphics is generally not needed < 1340750599 91391 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except to counter the fallacy that undesirable graphics are desirable < 1340750655 980398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consumer sheep have been well-fed on 3d graphics... < 1340750683 794610 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If 3D geometry is not used in the gameplay, it should not have 3D graphics, is my opinion. < 1340750687 999005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way theres nothing wrong with the system < 1340750703 539802 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i am happiest when trying to criticize something < 1340750760 550138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make many different computer games in the way I prefer it, and then other people that like in this way can play this game too. < 1340750773 569916 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340750808 616003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like graffiti is only meaningful in as much as some can't stand it so much that taxes get spent cleaning it < 1340750904 467087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time, there was some artwork by that banksy guy which accidently got destroyed, and people have started speculating about putting protective plastic on certain works of graffiti < 1340750910 313737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't waste your taxes like that. < 1340750952 58735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going off topic it seems, but i gotta go make breakfast < 1340750957 222498 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1340751035 122419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1340751799 173243 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so i try to focus on answering questions like "why can't we go back to the days when things like KOTOR were made" < 1340751814 407799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than treating it as rhetorical which would be the norm < 1340751956 938893 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never had an internet connected console, but some of the problems i think is the way that when a game is played in single player, that it needs cultural relevance to be deeply enjoyable < 1340752048 66691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. ok i'm honing in on the problem < 1340752085 834551 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write a software application it is natural to use it a lot.. < 1340752155 942320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you write a game, then somehow it would be weird to spend signifigant time playing the game yourself if not for testing < 1340752185 590891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i hear the creator of gran turismo plays it < 1340752199 136975 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is the mark of a good game if the developers themselves actually want to play it < 1340752363 580310 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know KOTOR. But, I do make the game that I like to play by myself too < 1340752439 607241 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do feel a sense of guilt when i flood this channel with this wall of text < 1340752482 746098 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only you'd act upon it. < 1340752491 585716 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Vorpal, say something, anything < 1340752499 402418 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im done < 1340752502 585996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I am OK with that. Although other people can type on here too < 1340752506 415293 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the best of intentions < 1340752521 299357 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not the right place to say quite so much quite so fast < 1340752656 435425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind < 1340752745 462480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequels in the top 100 game sales of 2012: mass effect,diablo,just dance,mario kart,call of duty,super mario,mario party,final fantasy,elder scrolls,fifa soccer,battlefield,uncharted,resident evil,max payne,gran turismo,ufc undisputed,assassin's creed,zelda,grand theft auto < 1340752816 168867 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few others i guess. basically the best popular games are almost all franchises and sequels. < 1340752830 219112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^best selling < 1340753216 566088 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several of those are from relatively new franchses. < 1340753216 801475 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*franchises < 1340753231 631017 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd probably be more meaningful if you looked at sales figures across the series. < 1340753239 677498 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some bias in the ones i left out too < 1340753294 8309 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that there is a great emphasis on gaming as a form of social interaction. this is probably nothing new. nightclubs have gotten rich as social networking services < 1340753308 631535 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: point noted. < 1340753415 920823 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really astonishing how many sales super mario gets < 1340753501 881564 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW the top selling console games in 2001 were *all* part of a preexisting franchise, as were all but 2 of the PC games. < 1340753509 14216 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1340753509 266998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How good game do you think the computer game I have made would be? (Super ASCII MZX Town, Potion of Confusing, XnazzyBall, Disk Catch, The CGA Collection (which consists of various computer games), etc) < 1340753549 310571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sales do not affect the quality of a game unless they use that money to hire people to make improvements and that those people are actually competent to do so. < 1340753622 68913 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although games tend to be similar to each other < 1340753627 18730 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although games get called clones < 1340753660 512935 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think theres almost no instances of a non-puzzle game's physics being copied verbatim < 1340753664 717955 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :====== < 1340753674 835145 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why we should make up the games differently, even if there are some similarities. < 1340753681 68260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1340753701 224964 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you are correct there does tend to be too many similarities, but usually they do not even make improvements to those things < 1340753705 766793 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, is that a "please for the love of god stop this conversation" line? < 1340753716 643271 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1340753721 194123 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue < 1340753849 799191 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'm going to draw one of those lines: < 1340753853 641431 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--------------------------------------------------------- < 1340753973 413381 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340754023 465834 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: something < 1340754024 219961 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He took his vorpal phone in hand; < 1340754043 698177 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good job, rather late. < 1340754068 18803 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I was playing edge < 1340754079 362469 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edge...? < 1340754109 506537 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sticker snack (I blame swype) < 1340754117 467704 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plot of the "Potion of Confusing" game is somewhat like this: You have to solve the puzzles to collect the purple keys and once you have enough you can leave. You have to save gibbering mouthers from the king's army, and the only way to do that is to hold the second purple key as you hold a pencil, and write "VOID" on the contract; that way the army will attack the king instead. But you need to go to the library to learn the contract law first, < 1340754118 183873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, a puzzle platformer < 1340754125 19443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, was part of a previous humble bundle < 1340754131 694804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the android bundle iirc < 1340754140 301849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I put it on my new phone to try out touch controls for games < 1340754141 993470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games such as "Disk Catch" have no real plot because it is not that kind of game. < 1340754171 334804 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340754180 614356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, displaying a gamepad on screen and using that worked best out of the three control methods (the one I just mentioned, tilt, drag cube (the player is a cube)) < 1340754196 21346 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascinating. < 1340754203 64299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there external keyboard method? < 1340754205 222815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my room is a wifi white spot < 1340754216 563355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't have an external keyboard for my phone though < 1340754220 228115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is on the PC version < 1340754226 574695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc it is wasd or the arrow keys) < 1340754234 237492 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remember that in the event that I buy an Android phone and feel the need to play a highly-reviewed indie game on it. < 1340754245 186170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, anyway why did you want me to say something? < 1340754262 645357 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To break the iti/zzo feedback loop. < 1340754266 989812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, stop being sarcastic, there is no call for it < 1340754272 188798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, that.... sounds terrible < 1340754280 682175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will not read the scrollback, I'm too scared < 1340754280 884272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have something to say? < 1340754308 583631 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340754309 661944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a white spot for wifi here, even my laptop can only get like 2 bars :/ < 1340754325 427155 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something < 1340754332 365574 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me, the wifi in my house is insane. < 1340754360 934574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, well, it doesn't normally bother me since I use ethernet for my laptop in here < 1340754380 387686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, Samsung neglected adding an ethernet port to this phone! < 1340754385 526235 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'm pretty sure wifi in general is a big hoax, and it's actually all run with the souls of baby rabbits or something which keep hopping into the wrong place or something I swear this made sense when I started typing < 1340754397 275121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm kind of happy with that, think how bulky it would have been!) < 1340754403 426127 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1340754406 208033 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not need to say that < 1340754413 36115 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to mock you for it < 1340754426 26071 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i thought "nah, he must be blatantly ironic" < 1340754455 458681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, zzo was in here, I'm not sure he would have understood that I was ironic < 1340754533 682136 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct protocol in that case is to ignore him. < 1340754632 486791 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like swype though. At least for English it is pretty good. Haven't tried it much for Swedish yet. Although it can't tell to and too apart. < 1340754689 762198 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need to make it confuse see and seen and it'll be able to perfectly mimic your typing. < 1340754719 442644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, I confuse those two words? < 1340754728 427055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess I need to work on that then < 1340754748 66230 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I've brought up your struggles with the pluperfect at least twice before. < 1340754813 989091 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Testar swype för svenska. Ett sammansatt ord: ... well that fails (concur < 1340754818 513738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1340754823 715894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatinated* < 1340754830 358217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and words fell off < 1340754836 963162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is backspace next to enter :/ < 1340754849 904666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on phones it is annoying < 1340754871 685106 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because they both needed to operate similar mechanisms on typewriters, seeing as both moved the carriage back. < 1340754895 437572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340754903 511749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense on a phone keyboard though < 1340754914 51009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway swype fails concatenated words in Swedish < 1340754924 831037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least non-common ones < 1340754944 364598 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, of course it does, they both need to move the little carriage under the screen back. < 1340754945 546825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Swedish you really need a set of base-words and a ruleset for how to construct concatenated words < 1340754954 166726 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, XD < 1340754972 791514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks like for Swedish it just has a simple word list < 1340754986 654597 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1340754987 555431 :Patashu[Zzz]!~Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1340755012 990860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is annoying, the quit message looks very similar to when the client said it lost connection itself < 1340755024 877220 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backspace < 1340755027 732685 :VorpalPhone!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well < 1340755035 857378 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That page image is possibly the best I've seen on Wikipedia. < 1340755050 62100 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1340755050 261192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that some keyboards (rarely-used) have non-destructive backspace above the return key but the rubout key to the left of the "A" < 1340755054 542787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is crazy < 1340755069 116565 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think that is a better place for it? < 1340755074 306750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover, click the image and read the description < 1340755120 654024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where non-destructive backspace is used for overlapping characters to make a non-equal sign and so on) < 1340755134 731177 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Backspace < 1340755139 562190 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dour bastards < 1340755173 214017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh