< 1340323232 102034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340323277 363544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/gjesteserie/panto/ < 1340323398 37980 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no text to translate) < 1340324722 776049 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the above implication that England, Great Britain and The UK all refer to the same place. The American equivalent would be to claim such of Texas, Dixie and The US... < 1340324979 485209 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refer you to Shachaf's Confusion. < 1340325003 263809 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. what, exactly, is the Isle of Man in relation to the United Kingdom. < 1340325250 154000 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: those are all different places < 1340325311 106172 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's a self-governing crown dependency < 1340325313 476483 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia < 1340325328 178229 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? < 1340325369 885650 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Under British law, the Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom. However, the UK takes care of its external and defence affairs, and retains paramount power to legislate for the island." < 1340325383 785743 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a colony >_< < 1340325398 753308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION meditates upon Spitsbergen, Svalbard, Norway and Kingdom of Norway < 1340325412 161853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is the isle of man a british overseas territory < 1340325421 739776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is pretty much our name for colonies < 1340325425 856736 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 svalbard < 1340325434 929794 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1340325447 67023 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jersey, guernsey, and isle of man have their own deal < 1340325467 682283 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/British_Overseas.png < 1340325494 460260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So what is the UK? < 1340325499 858982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, I thought I knew all the answers. < 1340325510 475342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it turns out the UK makes no sense at all. < 1340325519 604307 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1340325524 497478 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the UK is a nation-state < 1340325543 163752 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I mean the UK is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. < 1340325546 532357 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right there in the name. < 1340325549 207315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Okay. What does it compromise? < 1340325553 213452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*comprise < 1340325556 709356 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. < 1340325559 537703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hum wait Svalbard _is_ part of the kingdom. < 1340325569 264683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between somethin being part of the UK and something being governed by it? < 1340325587 802859 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know, but the UK as a soverign entity is allowed to make such an arbitrary distinction < 1340325588 595615 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is actually part of the UK, the other is only governed by it? < 1340325598 866800 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it has bearing on citizenship, for one < 1340325608 309463 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Uh, the term "nation state" means it's a state representing a nation. As in, a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history... < 1340325614 949012 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Although Manx passport holders are British citizens, because the Isle of Man is not part of the European Union, people born on the Island without a parent or grandparent either born or resident for more than five consecutive years in the UK do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the EU" < 1340325617 595056 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By my count, the UK has 4 constituent nations. < 1340325628 438947 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so maybe it's just a state < 1340325734 631035 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US have a similar thing with certain nearby islands... < 1340325789 931503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is a "sovereign state" apparently < 1340325803 962834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess this means england is not a nation-state, it is a nation and a country that is part of the UK sovereign state < 1340325806 655981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is england itself a state < 1340325830 593862 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you're using the word "state" < 1340325848 224869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i believe there are also certain overseas territories that the royal family actually *own*, through the crown < 1340325849 692010 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the constituent states of the United States are, in most all senses of the term, at least de jure... < 1340325863 973036 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the US has incorporated unorganized territories, unincorporated organized territories, and unincorporated unorganized territories < 1340325864 225648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do the royals own Ireland? < 1340325868 914558 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used to have the fourth one too < 1340325871 654407 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legal statuses are confusing as hell with the UK. < 1340325903 765618 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc: i believe there are also certain overseas territories that the royal family actually *own*, through the crown < 1340325935 902022 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've been over this; Crown ownership only represents ownership by the regent in the most abstract way. < 1340325946 621236 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In all practical senses it's state ownership. < 1340325985 604000 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know there is a piece of land on the border between Egypt and Sudan which is claimed by neither country? < 1340325986 465086 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like how, in theory, the Queen exercises near-ultimate power, but in practice the Queen only has enough power to be on TV and such. < 1340325988 605545 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil < 1340326028 497742 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't think she even has power over that; < 1340326036 675032 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's the Queen, she can't not appear on TV. < 1340326048 951212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know that. < 1340326052 736614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But the whole point of this is technicalities. < 1340326063 177866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, I knew. < 1340326078 726725 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure it's true as a technicality, considering all that corporation sole stuff. < 1340326082 661815 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" In 1999, Queen Elizabeth II, acting on the advice of the government, refused to signify her consent to the Military Action Against Iraq (Parliamentary Approval) Bill, which sought to transfer from the monarch to Parliament the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq." < 1340326088 699419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i knew, probably because someone here mentioned it < 1340326145 107498 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is a bit of territory which lebanon and syria both agree is part of lebanon, but israel considers to be part of syria < 1340326194 606327 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the story behind that? < 1340326199 83124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that quote is weird < 1340326202 976659 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_farms < 1340326268 218292 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's occupied by israel, but israel withdrew from occupied territories in lebanon, therefore they consider it to be part of syria's golan heights < 1340326311 948962 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just realised that I've never actually heard of any of Israel's territory being occupied by anyone else, except when it was previously disputed. < 1340326337 264237 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... seems that should happen as much as the other way round. < 1340326365 910507 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because israel had a tiny amount of territory to begin with < 1340326401 652985 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they started out with some large section of what was formerly British Palestine. < 1340326448 199259 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "to begin with" i mean after the war of independence < 1340326506 809001 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait there was a war of independence too?? < 1340326512 73880 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War < 1340326527 512277 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using an operational definition of "state" here < 1340326543 123390 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the fact that the UN says you're a state is not very relevant < 1340326553 632047 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact that you control some territory and provide state-like services within it is more relevant < 1340326579 942155 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.184 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340326583 410870 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ability of the israeli government to do that was not established until the end of the 1948 war < 1340326699 349830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120621/01482419410/cbs-mocks-its-own-failed-copyright-lawsuit-sarcastically-announcing-new-completely-original-show-dancing-stars.shtml < 1340326700 834252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1340326740 335496 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we’re sure nobody will have any problem with this title or our upcoming half-hour comedy for primetime, POSTMODERN FAMILY." < 1340326743 489533 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would watch that < 1340326755 876697 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would watch the shit out of that. < 1340326765 491277 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention Dancing on the Stars. < 1340326766 888614 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would watch it until my TV literally took a shit in my room < 1340326786 991597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your tv a dog < 1340326806 321772 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to check < 1340326815 828131 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :put cat in front of it < 1340326835 936939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: try throwing a bone < 1340326841 344709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your tv runs towards it and picks it up it is probably a dog < 1340326852 353646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :high definition dog < 1340326863 552533 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: at what point do you consider the territory "occupied"? if there's active fighting and the front moves into the previous borders of your country, is that occupation < 1340326870 497933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with UltraSmell(R) Technology < 1340326871 198235 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it only count after a ceasefire of some length < 1340326876 21331 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1340326878 248022 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES THIS IS DOG < 1340326881 334026 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN I HELP YOU < 1340326896 912430 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, when the Wikipedia article calls it 'occupied'. < 1340326897 72045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumpio-: CAN YOU SNIFF THIS BAG OF SUSPECTED DORITOS < 1340326904 723057 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: gimme 2 minutes then < 1340326909 217725 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHO WAS PHONE? < 1340326914 947541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1340326916 20968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of you < 1340326919 440598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Phantom_Hoover < 1340326921 996887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can keep talking < 1340326928 120621 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott smash < 1340326933 882885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: D8 < 1340326938 858476 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to keep talking then i took an arrow to the knee < 1340326944 143334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do what i do because i must < 1340326951 928669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: your right to talk has how been revoked < 1340326956 442257 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry it was the only awful meme that came to mind) < 1340326962 553152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not accept apologies < 1340326963 630488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only blood < 1340326965 183256 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1340326978 164928 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've said 'y u no let kmc talk' < 1340326984 156828 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you revoked my right to speek < 1340326987 480449 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :said 'u mad bro' < 1340327000 167903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i mad :( < 1340327006 152353 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't understand, could you copy-paste that text into a bad drawing please and upload it to imgur < 1340327009 787494 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327014 562640 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327024 887246 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1340327028 144188 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott < 1340327031 25927 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1340327036 798584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1340327037 880203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1340327039 806895 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1340327042 606041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott < 1340327046 61338 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? < 1340327050 394672 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327054 73841 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327055 438606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1340327060 524528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Phantom_Hoover had an extra space < 1340327062 646800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BEWARE OF THE EVIL TRAILING SPACE BUG < 1340327074 104003 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327076 517869 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1340327127 254689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf completamente loco < 1340327130 320787 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1340327168 662417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327172 158416 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327176 845282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1340327179 632307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327180 324758 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls wisdom < 1340327180 484350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327187 213199 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327196 719633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we might be killing HackEgo < 1340327196 879670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn < 1340327201 234841 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ hexham \ ievan \ intercal \ internationale \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad \ monads \ monoid < 1340327202 188762 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/ .*//' | tr A-Z a-z) \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." \ < 1340327203 489354 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327203 712394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1340327204 978342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1340327206 319332 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uname -a < 1340327208 800976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems something is wrong < 1340327209 205583 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1340327214 421824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try adding it again < 1340327280 335475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf completamente loco < 1340327284 184520 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1340327291 709916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327294 88670 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327309 611693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf2 < 1340327311 882906 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf2? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1340327354 424213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat wisdom/shachaf wisdom/shachaf < 1340327356 853802 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327362 69543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1340327382 110660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file wisdom/shachaf < 1340327385 172323 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/shachaf: symbolic link to `/dev/null' < 1340327406 528966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----### < 1340327413 679427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/shachaf < 1340327416 277976 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1340327434 706599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fairly easy to fix that bug in `learn but i cba < 1340327468 509815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bug, surely that doesn't make it /dev/null < 1340327496 430074 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fake british friend says that crown dependencies are more like personal union, and so aren't bound by the uk parliament < 1340327508 603392 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except wikipedia says parliament occasionally passes laws that intend to apply to mann and the channel islands < 1340327517 80879 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how this works really < 1340327531 875789 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :law (especially british law) seems nice and formalized but really it's all made up as you go < 1340327538 951506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn shachaf sprø som selleri < 1340327539 585718 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait really < 1340327541 910628 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1340327546 949746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1340327547 361819 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the impression you get of british law < 1340327549 935649 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri < 1340327559 100582 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340327563 612266 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwritten constitution and all < 1340327577 66548 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has no written constitution and is very interpretative < 1340327586 726731 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some law is made up more than others... < 1340327608 522358 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :British law is probably the most blatantly so of any modern nation. < 1340327627 44596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the odd part is that you think it seems nice and formalised < 1340327638 658966 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :law here is completely made up < 1340327645 159358 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems better than US law, where we spend a long time worrying about what some slaveowning aristocrats 220 years ago intended < 1340327645 837717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly our government is good at printing impressively attractive forms that make you think they have an awful lot of iron-clad rules behind them < 1340327649 166443 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make it up in a lab with chemicals < 1340327670 834167 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whenever the supreme court wants to invent a new civil right (or take one away), they have to come up with a ridiculous justification for why it was intended all along < 1340327688 135337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: unfortunately the result is that we don't have any credible arguments that the government can't legally violate our rights :P < 1340327703 172463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that having one necessarily helps < 1340327719 986203 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH the government don't have any credible arguments that they *can* legally violate our rights. < 1340327744 615607 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340327750 939676 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it is presumptuous of me to say which one is "better" < 1340327792 976030 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the difference relates to the fact that USA is a much newer country with a very strong origin myth < 1340327821 76677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do they have any credible arguments that they can do anything by that definition? < 1340327831 969870 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know jesus guided the writing of the constitution and this is why USA #1 forever < 1340327864 611512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should employ some militant Tea Partiers to come and live in the UK so the government has some kind of vaguely credible thing to be afraid about. < 1340327875 268594 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo credible < 1340327896 163860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, the guns are credible. < 1340327916 438016 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see at least one flaw in this plan. < 1340327927 44660 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to hearing about how david cameron is an atheist muslim terrorist from kenya who was born in a terrorist training camp in pakistan < 1340327938 838441 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty likely < 1340327944 566112 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, have you seen his birth certificate? < 1340327947 342363 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS HE HIDING < 1340327960 861527 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340327974 860164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think if Cameron wasn't British he'd have to kill himself. < 1340328031 248003 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how it works < 1340328036 318141 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think to find a nation with a stronger origin myth you have to go back Romulus. < 1340328049 496488 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he wasn't British I would be very curious as to who is. < 1340328067 243372 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'At the core of this doctrine was the notion that the crown itself had personhood and as a legal entity is identical to the state of Hungary. It is superior to the ruling monarch, who rules "in the name of the crown".' < 1340328068 875561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well I mean wouldn't you rather Cameron *wasn't* British. < 1340328082 311557 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Crown_of_Hungary#Holiness_doctrine < 1340328093 443668 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, his britishness is an integral part of his terribleness < 1340328100 236063 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wouldn't be as fun to hate if he wasn't < 1340328373 716101 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340328459 600856 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust freeze (((((((((()*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1)*-1 < 1340328619 51756 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1340328637 600046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: That won't work :P < 1340328651 697200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: Macros aren't expanded; there's no way to cause exponential blowup. < 1340328653 656792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just time out. < 1340328655 269720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or lose. < 1340328666 676340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1340328674 911721 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't timed out yet. < 1340328680 50614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could freeze the thing up, but I don't think the interpreter is susceptible to it... < 1340328687 814571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know lance handled it correctly... so I blame fizzie. < 1340328693 647692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: I think EgoBot has a global timeout on everything, though. < 1340328719 203630 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so too, but apparently not short enough. < 1340328753 340629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo hi < 1340328755 80403 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340328760 614803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's... reassuring. < 1340328799 361293 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm not using "!perl fork() while fork()". < 1340328848 120843 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That freezes codu entirely. < 1340328944 404965 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, why is bfjoust still running after all this time? < 1340329124 59493 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1340329137 302767 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340329278 822739 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust isitreally? < < 1340329301 95753 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: don't do that :P < 1340329307 957314 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340329325 466454 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340329327 895752 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340329344 278668 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects the timeout is on program cycles and not the ()* construct < 1340329398 362329 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that bug is my responsibility so... < 1340329427 527091 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor http://www.filedropper.com/newbfjousttar and ask about the bug in gearlance < 1340329427 726160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1340329436 874673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : That freezes codu entirely. < 1340329439 572191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not. < 1340329444 456102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot uses UMLBox. < 1340329464 79597 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did freeze codu a while back using that. < 1340329475 48832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, really? < 1340329476 588241 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl fork() while fork() < 1340329477 245509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1340329480 857851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a serious bug in UMLBox, then. < 1340329488 859578 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also froze all other websites running or Gregor's box. < 1340329526 748224 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the bug uncovered was in fact bad timing when I was introducing bugs to fuck up Codu on my own the other day ;) < 1340329553 206598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sounds implausible to me... UML shouldn't be forkbombable like that. < 1340329558 424799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with EgoBot's ulimits. < 1340329565 966808 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... so that was it. < 1340329578 99862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Link me to your local *lance copy >_> < 1340329579 885950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git.zem.fi is down. < 1340329585 234484 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonetheless bfjoust has not returned < 1340329611 228000 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I recall, EgoBot just remains silent if the time limit is reached. < 1340329640 347913 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would not have been reached on the call i made afterwards < 1340329648 691451 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust working? < < 1340329657 158045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1340329657 988092 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1340329660 573853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I know lance handled it correctly... so I blame fizzie. <-- perhaps there's a bug when the "expanded" content is empty? < 1340329660 702482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!source < 1340329661 951760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!come on < 1340329664 671419 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, it is in fact running that other bfjoust 8-D < 1340329671 714697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right, it's () that would cause any such bug. < 1340329676 393871 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR-E-VER < 1340329678 993829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can patch up *lance for it in a jiffy. < 1340329700 845366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly ()*anything should never be a timeout as you might expect, but instead be simply skipped. < 1340329703 265636 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: remember to patch the new version < 1340329709 802453 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ ought to be up to date. < 1340329713 368884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... that's kind of a pain. < 1340329717 41585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you have to handle the nesting. < 1340329723 231182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you need is a recursive expands_to_empty function. < 1340329730 769385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is easy to define but a pain to use. < 1340329737 428057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I won't fix it, because it'd be ugly. fizzie can. < 1340329767 147338 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you already installed the new version that fast? < 1340329791 451520 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1340329793 425205 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done nothing. < 1340329796 925303 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm super-tired X-D < 1340329809 100161 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's not up to date < 1340329810 364936 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340329824 707605 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: have you got out of china yet? with all your body parts? < 1340329829 872832 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to elliott X_X < 1340329834 332504 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Days ago. < 1340329842 452358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1340329892 260250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1340329919 165632 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: codu is down < 1340329929 998463 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The forkbomb worked < 1340329960 294413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks wikipedia should have a different color for links that go to disambiguation and misspelled redirect pages < 1340329960 583344 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: oh i thought you were telling him it was OK to patch the version of gearlance found at http://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ , which would cause it to conflict with the version in the tarball i just gave you < 1340329960 583440 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's irrelevant if codu is down :P < 1340329961 626323 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340329968 155455 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy_: hi < 1340329973 982958 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340329991 644337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, Gregor IRCs through codu. < 1340329991 644453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just broke his IRC client. < 1340330007 328961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that sounds DB-intensive < 1340330007 576658 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's incentive to fix it, right? < 1340330007 849878 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually he ran the forkbomb himself XD < 1340330018 527781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then... Gregor did :P < 1340330021 440559 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : could someone please write in this channel an IRP implementation of a universal Turing machine? < 1340330038 486195 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IRP may be in fancy-L ;) < 1340330042 269158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it already have a different color if the page doesn't _exist_ < 1340330073 504938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1340330082 660276 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit EgoBot is still using Plash, isn't it X_X < 1340330098 425236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha is it really < 1340330103 874745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are you lagged to hell < 1340330114 665943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1340330114 666271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a much simpler check than the others, I think < 1340330132 464450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do i know. i just see people are _still_ making new links to [[Issac Newton]]. < 1340330143 342596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340330212 373127 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-150-54.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340330212 406862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Issac+Newton&namespace=0 < 1340330212 414329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yw. hth. < 1340330213 897988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um i already did that, and fixed most of them < 1340330219 504511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :P < 1340330229 93806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think there might be a bot that finds links to redirects from misspellings? < 1340330322 232916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple old ones i haven't fixed because i haven't been able to check if the misspelling is in the actual source referenced < 1340330326 690834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i just after that fixed a lot of "pentathalon"s :P < 1340330327 294317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you should buy the comics < 1340330327 294367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah in theory < 1340330347 757384 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340330347 862624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will buy them if they are cheap < 1340330391 795480 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340330406 148286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one answered my question on the talk page, anyway < 1340330944 247799 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1340330944 759132 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1340331249 754043 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331251 169931 :glogbot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331251 568502 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric > 1340331253 870298 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331254 173655 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1340331254 385677 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331254 827580 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331305 905008 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331328 945814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbackup: smooth < 1340331349 754688 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1340331401 292211 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, probably time to switch EgoBot over to UMLBox... < 1340331403 295153 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously thought I had done that, like, ages ago X_X < 1340331851 823879 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340332383 912912 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'll enjoy what I just did to blognomic. < 1340332445 752678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What happened? < 1340332467 927514 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I replaced the word 'Dynasty' with 'Machine'. BlogNomic is now in the Third Machine of scshunt. < 1340332474 130622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1340332575 350029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: can you explain henri bouchard to me < 1340332596 175777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait, did I do the /dev/null thing? < 1340332601 512334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was clever of me! < 1340332613 421748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/clev/null < 1340332649 445945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Can you come up with some plan to win BlogNomic that lets me win without doing anything so that I can start a good dynasty? < 1340332664 774284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You are also permitted to do so. < 1340332678 86261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/hm/whydidn'tirssibreakthat < 1340332692 496981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it doesn't count it as a command if it contains a / < 1340332951 615284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i don't see where you actually did that < 1340332959 569427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340332966 235018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaced it in the core rules as well as dynastic by mistake or something? < 1340333070 812806 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340333082 851290 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: neither of the other two things though < 1340333111 604289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other what < 1340333126 732211 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two requests < 1340333196 883720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340333200 523687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm upset < 1340334450 945804 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340334519 679013 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-150-54.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1340335124 385210 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340335179 746326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I thought about it I can know, you can make a sum of categories, you can make a product of categories, and a monad or comonad on one of them you make the sum of monads and product of monads too, etc < 1340335699 651041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing is that it seems that you cannot actually make sum of categories and product of categories with the Category class in Haskell. < 1340336626 107408 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1340337084 30994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know of multiplexing X forwarders, sort-of like tmux but with X rather than terminals? < 1340337104 172652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nope < 1340337301 584867 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: To the best of my knowledge, none exists < 1340337305 908183 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered writing one < 1340337312 231616 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a lot of tricksiness < 1340337322 59119 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since IDs can change < 1340337325 447826 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and resources are stored server-side < 1340337330 848533 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the muxer would have to retain copies < 1340337334 100145 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and restablish them server-side < 1340337337 113315 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340337362 73623 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd basically need to write a server < 1340337370 72770 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except its display backend is also X < 1340337390 755250 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and GL wouldn't work unless you implemented software emulation on the muxer) < 1340337608 600552 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see blognomic < 1340338019 418273 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340339560 943396 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be trivial with Wayland, as far as I know. < 1340339686 908950 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1340339694 318275 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean local muxing? < 1340339699 230606 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local muxing might work. < 1340339712 216469 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not remote, since Wayland has no forwarding < 1340339764 831538 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant local. Though remote would work if you implemented your own forwarding protocol. < 1340339799 172882 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRIVIAL < 1340339817 647882 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, -lx264 < 1340339818 699314 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340340149 972003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how many things are banned in the Free Land of Not a pipe? Some of them are: * Searching housing units is banned. * Assisted suicide is banned. * Assisted abortion is mostly banned. * Hunting is mostly banned. * Surveillance cameras are banned in public areas. * Secret police are banned. * Elite police are banned. * Monopoly is banned. * Smoking in public is banned. * It is prohibited for someone who is dead to act as alive. < 1340340496 367602 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do I own park place and boardwalk? < 1340340513 444726 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: remote Wayland would largely defeat the point < 1340340564 21652 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It'd still be a much less shitty setup. < 1340340606 802787 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apps currently try to treat X as a framebuffer muxer, setting up forwarding on top of an *actual* framebuffer muxer rather than a hacked-up one would work at least a bit better. < 1340340639 588692 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are also many things which are permitted: * Free speech is permitted without restriction. * Hate speech is permitted. * Discrimination is mostly permitted. * Cannibalism is permitted. * Voting is permitted at any age. * Writing and publishing whatever book you want is permitted. * Most other things are also permitted. < 1340340883 998744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kasparov once played chess against a team of fifty thousand people. < 1340341116 42963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The team of fifty thousand people lost. < 1340341881 268488 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of us is as dumb as all o fus < 1340341951 915580 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340342254 829676 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they vote on moves? what was the procedure? < 1340343722 900417 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be in my "hunt for a language" phase < 1340343749 329747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have moved from looking at Clojure to looking at ... not sure which of SML or OCaml I should look at, there seems to be more OCaml'ers on Reddit < 1340343754 763983 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And am now doing a Try OCaml thing < 1340343763 290744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasparov_versus_the_World. < 1340343845 623424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ See/See / < 1340343869 451393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: of course by "50k people" it was actually "far less people who were good at chess arguing on an internet forum and then getting everyone else to vote for that" < 1340343924 276194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Black finally secured the opportunity to castle but refused to be so defensive. This move was a novelty by the World Team, i.e. a move which had never before been played in a recorded game. Krush discovered and analyzed the move, and enlisted Paehtz to recommend it as well, to give it a better chance of winning the vote. Their combined advocacy, plus much discussion on the bulletin board, was enough to gain it 53% of the vote. After this move, < 1340343924 474863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSN requested that the four official analysts not coordinate with each other, perhaps to ensure a greater variety of recommendations. The analysts worked in isolation from each other thereafter.[5]]] < 1340343925 378472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1340344122 460602 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kasparov-18.jpg < 1340344124 349367 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :love the joystick < 1340344137 807786 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yeah i actually spent most of the time playing TIE Fighter" < 1340344142 299187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's how you play chess < 1340344229 535647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies, n. "You wont get better error messages than with ghc and ghci." < 1340344230 823077 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He actually uses a combat emulator to decide his moves. < 1340344256 303724 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, chess actually comes out of ancient combat rituals. Therefore, what is best in battle directly corresponds to what is best in chess. < 1340344331 490822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Those who complained were not overstating Krush's influence; her recommendations were selected every single move from the 10th to the 50th." < 1340344340 492023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc. etc. < 1340344437 326372 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was The World allowed to use computer chess programs? < 1340344442 125101 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and opening books, etc < 1340344512 249343 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340344539 448469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the opening of the article? It would be exceedingly difficult to stop an open web poll doing anything. < 1340344552 708770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So any such rules would be irrelevant, really. < 1340344565 633013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt computer chess programs are any good when they only get to take some of the moves. < 1340344586 121497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This move was posted by United States Senior Master and Life Master Brian McCarthy, one of the most prolific contributors to the World Team forum. He found the move working with his Bookup database and the integrated computer program Zarkov." -- so it was done. < 1340344595 141262 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340344635 996296 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm looking at Mercury. < 1340344637 658355 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yipee. < 1340344695 591800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340344904 338366 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340344933 534724 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340345440 592897 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to ask what it is with "Objective" being added to language names to indicate OO, but then saw the obvious < 1340345483 112831 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Objective C as opposed to subjective C, of course. < 1340345494 710005 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there examples other than C and C++? < 1340345508 452749 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Objective Caml < 1340345511 575618 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1340345521 92143 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but almost nobody expands that acronym and almost nobody uses the object system ;) < 1340345553 465874 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides apparently having more of a community, is there any reason to go OCaml over SML? < 1340345569 169955 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm currently looking at OCaml more because of the community than anything else < 1340345572 635607 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mpi-sws.org/~rossberg/sml-vs-ocaml.html < 1340345574 485445 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell < 1340345574 953072 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://adam.chlipala.net/mlcomp/ < 1340345590 887845 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :sml isn't worth anything except learning why haskell is better < 1340345606 709064 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which probably has high value all its own. < 1340345616 444342 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML syntax is a bit nicer i think < 1340345623 252374 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a wider variety of implementations < 1340345633 657354 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are not really big points in favor < 1340345639 414927 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml is used by real companies doing real things < 1340345648 259543 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't say much, anyways: Haskell's nearly a monoculture by now. < 1340345653 744366 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even more than Haskell < 1340345664 299195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML is totally used for, uh, things! < 1340345687 688852 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which is weird < 1340345709 600032 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comparison is hard to make because i think ocaml users are less evangelical < 1340345760 230465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether he should do the ICFP contest. < 1340345770 826379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That article gets less and less Wikipedia-y as it goes on. "Here then is a six-man ending; www.shredderchess.com has a tablebase for all these endings available; after 55.Qxb4 the tablebase shows White can win in 82 moves!" < 1340345810 584644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml is a very ugly language. < 1340345815 164864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML is less so. < 1340345825 392740 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340345829 237670 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml is ugly, and i don't just mean syntax < 1340345829 657375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not talking about syntax here.) < 1340345832 481015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snap. < 1340345837 27239 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is plenty ugly too ;P < 1340345847 158001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually quite like OCaml's syntax. < 1340345889 581315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: did you just break agora < 1340345891 533361 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i really like about ocaml (the implementation) is that it's factored into a thing which produces bytecode, a bytecode interpreter written in C, and a bytecode to native code compiler < 1340345896 647862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :& also: should i sleep < 1340345913 170558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Guess what #haskell is doing! < 1340345923 160048 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even though the compiler is self-hosting, you can get it running on a new platform just by compiling the interpreter (a C program) and then running pre-compiled bytecodes for the compiler < 1340345947 186272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What's the practical difference between that and generating portable C? < 1340345956 863251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340345982 848331 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe none < 1340345986 544212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340346009 933127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory GHC can do something like this with the unregisterized C backend < 1340346017 186481 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice it is an unmitigated clusterfuck < 1340346029 62490 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat crudded out on me < 1340346031 555737 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C produced by the unreg'd C backend is not portable C at all < 1340346032 600385 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1340346036 200877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to assumptions made while compiling, or something like that, if I remember correctly? < 1340346057 372886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand these same problems might apply to the bytecode approach. < 1340346060 221502 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you build GHC, it hardcodes a bunch of struct sizes and offsets and the like for the target platform < 1340346067 573510 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and GHC was never really designed to be built as a cross compiler < 1340346074 29092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's ugly about OCaml? < 1340346088 348783 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides the lack of typeclasses (and I heard modules are sort of better, but is that just SML?) < 1340346092 861597 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data constructor arguments aren't curried < 1340346106 5044 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality is a single baked-in special case typeclass-like thing < 1340346109 49420 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't define your own < 1340346115 757875 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: So I think the issue is "GHC was never designed to built as a cross compiler", not so much the particular approach they didn't take while not designing it. :-) < 1340346117 775146 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :modules aren't a replacement for typeclasses, or vice versa < 1340346126 16368 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some problems can be solved with either feature < 1340346128 410566 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :others can't really < 1340346153 148311 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are data constructors functions at all? < 1340346162 25251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them are. < 1340346162 223634 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are they functions that take a tuple, or what? < 1340346171 480159 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're talking about OCaml. < 1340346178 298475 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like functions that take a tuple. there might be additional restrictions < 1340346204 502334 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1340346207 740284 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc printf formatting is also a special baked in thing < 1340346209 969480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc: Guess what #haskell is doing! < 1340346216 883118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it "explaining" monads? < 1340346236 812150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I was thinking along the lines of "annoying me", but that too. < 1340346241 505328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah ocaml's pritnf stuff is weird < 1340346248 784535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale is so hlepflu. :-( < 1340346255 977464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string literal can be overloaded to a "printf" value when it is the second argument of printf < 1340346266 224591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this breaks substitution etc. < 1340346270 730193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically printf is a macro that takes a string literal < 1340346284 293500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an inherently bad way to do things but ocaml's execution of it is gross < 1340346286 447982 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also OCaml has extensible sum types... wait, no, it has a *single* extensible sum type, named exn and usually used for exceptions < 1340346289 453107 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah < 1340346309 627626 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh OCaml has better support for adding your own macro-like stuff than pretty much any non-Lisp i know of < 1340346326 380352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the camlp stuff is interesting < 1340346331 756840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly better than TH < 1340346335 470039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it wasn't attached to ocaml < 1340346338 547793 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah camlp4 lets you modify the concrete syntax of the language < 1340346343 944883 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write true syntactic extensions < 1340346356 495760 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you can define your own totally alternate syntax < 1340346363 746544 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-camlp4/manual007.html < 1340346379 893698 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you think the value restriction counts as "ugly"? < 1340346414 271113 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, i forgot another major blemish: addition on ints is + but addition on floats is +. < 1340346426 18103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i forget what that is < 1340346431 881443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's how they stop unsafeCoerce from references right < 1340346487 988045 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because they don't have type-class overloading < 1340346490 545112 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was wrong before < 1340346499 670463 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml doesn't have the fake typeclass for equality, that's SML < 1340346513 123463 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ocaml you can use the equals operator on any type, including say functions < 1340346520 796607 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the type isn't comparable, it's a run-time exception < 1340346541 560965 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it do structural equality? < 1340346579 100246 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably? < 1340346588 353077 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't override it, afaik < 1340346605 472810 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually not a big fan of typeclasses in Haskell < 1340346610 432814 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think these alternatives are worse < 1340346653 70697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeclasses are nice when you have a single definitive fundamental implementaion. < 1340346655 486225 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my view is more that, typeclasses are a good feature, but people (especially beginners) go way overboard defining new typeclasses and instances < 1340346671 1363 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typeclasses aren't a *great* feature; there is room for improvement < 1340346680 837776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses are one of the worst features I kno wof and cause an infinite multitude of problems... but they also seem to be necessary < 1340346687 131185 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340346703 948618 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, define "necessary" < 1340346709 580284 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people get by with the SML and OCaml solutions too < 1340346709 858967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody wants to use a different operator for integers and floats, nobody wants to recode Map for every type < 1340346720 705004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I seriously mostly looking at other languages because of Haskell's records situation? < 1340346724 844681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Map would not be so bad < 1340346728 43886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have < 1340346733 66581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty :: Ordering a -> Map a < 1340346736 741790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1340346745 596337 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1340346746 266262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Ordering a = Ordering (a -> a -> Thingy) < 1340346747 385922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's thingy < 1340346748 320700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t compare < 1340346749 405065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ord a) => a -> a -> Ordering < 1340346751 745193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Ordering a = Ordering (a -> a -> Ordering) < 1340346752 642389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oops) < 1340346753 242812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unions are a bit of a problem. < 1340346758 72303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1340346758 921622 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you union two maps constructed with different ordering functions, you're gonna have a bad time < 1340346760 865424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be slow < 1340346764 432907 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but serves you right, or something < 1340346764 827201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you actually want: < 1340346768 921855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty :: (ord :: Ordering a) -> Map ord a < 1340346772 704734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you run into fun issues < 1340346774 28531 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1340346777 104893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can't get two Maps with the same ordering to unify < 1340346777 747409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fissues < 1340346782 340424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1340346786 975119 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types cat < 1340346808 789339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type system is invariably incredibly inadequate for the task it is set, until you increase its power such that it becomes tangled up in its own mechanisms and stops working for anything < 1340346814 400435 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Ordering a = Ordering (a -> a -> Ordering a) < 1340346817 189935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hope the latter is due to our inexperience, rather than fundamental < 1340346817 845411 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :invent a use for this type, now < 1340346818 974089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So Monads are also a maybe something? < 1340346820 122061 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zardoz demands it < 1340346829 154940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a variadic function < 1340346835 18552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a covariant functor < 1340346836 395971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1340346843 569193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's a description, not a use. < 1340346846 82178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1340346846 963792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :contavariant < 1340346848 943964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*contravariant < 1340346854 164079 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think it is due to inexperience, because people who don't know Haskell say the same thing about Java < 1340346875 62400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well I am 90% certain that, say, Agda is not The Way < 1340346891 101763 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agda is certainly The Way to somewhere. < 1340346892 154693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly I could not write an Agda program right now if you told me to but I understand how it works on a basic level < 1340346895 546519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can read a lot of the stdlib code < 1340346897 33985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the proofs < 1340346900 788150 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm glad there are people who are going down it! < 1340346911 116406 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"apart from the proofs" < 1340346911 540819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that every dependent type system seems to be so much more awkward than the simpler ones < 1340346912 508623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GET IT < 1340346929 805986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram 2 sounds like it'd be better if McBride actually worked on it < 1340346938 586646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i agree with him about totality < 1340346957 46032 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i think this field is very new and we can't say it's reached the best possible solution < 1340346958 788662 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's McBride's opinion about totality? < 1340347002 10601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Haskell and ML type systems are very new < 1340347012 408770 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you're talking about a time when more than 5 people use them < 1340347034 108208 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programming itself is very new ;P < 1340347061 400187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/pub/Totality.pdf < 1340347075 738751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I agree that our languages should be total < 1340347083 495885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this does not impede their turing-completeness < 1340347104 889036 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1340347105 647704 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have a partiality monad? < 1340347119 649422 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did I see something about optionally being able to mark functions as total? < 1340347124 899611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: more or less, yes -- more directly, a potentially non-terminating computation is just codata < 1340347137 423125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :codata Possibly a = Definitely a | WaitForIt (Possibly a) < 1340347138 650905 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or non-totality being mentioned in the type system < 1340347138 849337 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1340347148 277508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can get your runtime system to evaluate these just fine < 1340347155 397333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the RTS executes the IO value for Haskell < 1340347164 792783 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he seriously redraw xkcd 386 on a whiteboard just to take a photo of it < 1340347171 319602 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't decide if that's wonderful or pathetic < 1340347175 807006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conor mcbride can do whatever the fuck he wants < 1340347184 564693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: -- indeed, the top-level value of your program should probably be something that can do both IO and partial computations < 1340347194 382613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if you have a nice algebraic effect system, then these can be defined independently! < 1340347222 738170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are of course total functions that you have to represent as possibly non-terminating for obvious reasons < 1340347229 884811 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will this thing explain what codata is? < 1340347241 562445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: most directly and perhaps most meaningfully, an interpreter of the language itself < 1340347253 773475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but I don't mind that < 1340347258 70338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: especially since you can have unsafePerformPartial < 1340347263 238438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the standard caveats < 1340347270 522448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, but codata is simple < 1340347286 257589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: basically < 1340347289 230251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "data" is finite < 1340347294 90977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, < 1340347296 765392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [a] = [] | a : [a] < 1340347299 612273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is data, were haskell strict < 1340347303 332560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the strictness being important) < 1340347315 922702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: with *codata*, you don't have to guarantee you can evaluate it all in finite time < 1340347324 322126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: all you have to do is guarantee that you can peel off *one constructor* in finite time < 1340347325 213808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1340347330 77237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [a] = [] | a : [a] < 1340347333 180914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a valid piece of codata < 1340347336 645171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 : 2 : 3 : 4 : ... < 1340347337 703306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1340347338 250973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined < 1340347338 783725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not < 1340347344 213619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't peel a (:) or [] off it in finite time < 1340347352 948118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, you can always examine codata further < 1340347356 285594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does not necessarily have any end < 1340347359 671618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you have < 1340347364 727270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :codata Sometime a = Now a | Later (Sometime a) < 1340347365 990404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can have < 1340347376 9111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later (Later (Later (... < 1340347377 59584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that never ends < 1340347377 258646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1340347379 947230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later (Later (Now 3)) < 1340347382 402086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lazy list based on network operations would NOT be codata, correct? < 1340347383 662687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't have < 1340347384 416887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined < 1340347384 803180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1340347385 866163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later undefined < 1340347388 855991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed not < 1340347396 637428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Haskell makes everything into codata < 1340347400 644708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you make it into data by using ! < 1340347402 862814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is a mistake < 1340347407 465501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that "lazy lists" are a bad idea < 1340347414 887212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you want is either lists-the-data, or colists-the-codata < 1340347418 251356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, possibly, streams-the-codata < 1340347423 860532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(streams being codata Stream a = Cons a (Stream a)) < 1340347431 974033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact colists are probably rare compared to lists and streams) < 1340347708 641052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made the idea for Ibtlfmm which you can have two maps or sets of the same type but different ordering, but you cannot union them because these maps are of different types even though their contents are the same. I think this is the way they should be done < 1340347837 547190 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Objective C is really a strict superset of C, unlike C++ which differs a bit. < 1340347928 607140 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340347947 65335 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tragic how many parts of C++ got fucked over thanks to needing C compatibility, and then they threw out the latter anyway over some dumb shit < 1340347983 735885 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is how the "auto" keyword is no longer backwards-compatible. < 1340347987 331236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaks all my programs. :-( < 1340347996 904031 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You... Use auto in C? < 1340348007 182665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: When I want an automatic variable, sure! < 1340348010 345619 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any point to the auto kw in C? < 1340348015 886051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1340348023 159942 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trivia. < 1340348027 716041 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistency is a point, i suppose < 1340348040 10551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of surprising that Algol 68 came before C. < 1340348052 13137 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of surprising that Algol 68 came before Go. < 1340348073 194867 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I saw that article. < 1340348088 536139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it's the first article I ever read about Algol 68. < 1340348113 680393 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you all think of Rust? < 1340348145 69163 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I learn OCaml or Clojure? < 1340348145 782465 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's what's for dinner" < 1340348150 123684 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust looks pretty neat. < 1340348151 304494 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1340348166 795548 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Rust seems cool < 1340348177 267865 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Rust any further along these days? < 1340348181 167922 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something actually usable? < 1340348188 125665 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants Rust < 1340348190 628896 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like an informed, clever attempt to improve on C in C's niche < 1340348206 941966 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's GCed. < 1340348209 26224 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the BLISS programming language? It has some ideas which I think are some better than C. So we should have something which combines features of BLISS, C, and LLVM. < 1340348247 974148 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Go seems like an attempt to simplify Java further and then make the syntax weird enough that C programmers won't feel it's a slight to their e-penises < 1340348276 31596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Go has that thing where it has language-defined generics but no way for users to define them?/ < 1340348279 11292 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a fine way to help society < 1340348284 63897 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much to interest me < 1340348312 380643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things I've seen relating to Rust have made me think "oh, that's neat". < 1340348315 41209 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i thought it wasn't so much GC as reference counting + uniqueness types < 1340348318 44593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has all of these < 1340348318 816919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it's been slides and such. < 1340348346 945262 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, Rust has a special GC... part... thingy... < 1340348352 448080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, it's an optional GC with some of those other things, yes. < 1340348364 233437 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, as in, mutable, immutable, GC, but then GC got merged in with mutable or separated out? < 1340348500 206970 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I once considered writing something in Rust but I saw how volatile it was. < 1340348551 923397 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, aiui, it's not there yet < 1340348556 121368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are six possible coercions, termed "deproceduring", "dereferencing", "uniting", "widening", "rowing" and "voiding" < 1340348563 560514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Algol 68, not Rust.) < 1340348612 196884 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :voiding while rowing considered harmful < 1340348694 735463 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Rust have a way to..... specify how to do destructuring? < 1340348700 600187 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm thinking of Scala's unapply < 1340348705 292738 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I may be wrong < 1340348709 916726 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Return a list. < 1340348714 82116 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And have no idea what Scala's unapply does) < 1340348717 380069 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No.) < 1340348719 963907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I don't either.) < 1340348799 244155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If more and more things annoy me in general in the world, does it mean I'm getting old? < 1340348807 597240 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340348812 259807 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been wondering that myself < 1340348885 749029 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1340348908 688252 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Rust, is the stack closure/box closure distinction ultimately for optimization? Couldn't everything use box closures? < 1340348939 796339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, box closures can't mutate their environment, I guess? < 1340348992 84733 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack closures are allocated on the stack? < 1340349061 401118 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a further simplification, if the final parameter to a function is a closure, the closure need not be placed within parentheses. You could, for example, write..." < 1340349075 831601 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sticks his tongue out at Ruby < 1340349122 44715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let doubled = vec::map([1, 2, 3]) {|x| x*2}; < 1340349161 232166 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340349166 817853 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lols < 1340349172 839748 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that only for lambda syntax? < 1340349182 457966 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it actually for anything of type 'function' < 1340349192 558020 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "the last argument" < 1340349246 631985 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340349249 499848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby has a special argument slot for a callable thing. < 1340349269 108685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you say foo(...) { ... }, it passes a new Proc in that special argument slot. < 1340349294 166244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo(arg1, arg2, &block) is the way you define a function that takes the callable thing. < 1340349307 46525 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Rust's way better < 1340349307 925602 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can alos pass anything in the block slot with the same syntax: foo(arg1, arg2, &b) < 1340349384 248470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is pretty fundamental to the way Ruby does things, and while it's a little weird, it can be nice. < 1340349389 584492 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Have you learned about the distinction between procs and lambdas yet? < 1340349432 265762 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, erm, I know there's a distinction between do/end and {/} which amounts to precedence. < 1340349440 997334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's just syntax. < 1340349471 764907 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference between proc and lambda? < 1340349477 374610 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the difference is that return inside a block returns from the enclosing function? < 1340349477 843470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm scared. < 1340349483 197876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yep. < 1340349489 811035 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a bit like it captures a continuation as well < 1340349491 619747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't use it to implement callcc. :-( < 1340349510 425658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hmm < 1340349512 8479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just throws an exception if you use it after the function has returned. < 1340349515 401232 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1340349525 297591 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one does a Smalltalk-like ^ and the other does just a normal... thingy? < 1340349569 626720 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo; b = lambda { return 5; }; [1,2,3].map(&b); end < 1340349577 529612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :def bar; b = proc { return 5; }; [1,2,3].map(&b); end < 1340349612 449801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no. < 1340349625 663297 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo returns [5,5,5], bar returns 5? < 1340349646 393923 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they both return 5 < 1340349657 573655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340349664 838761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd. < 1340349666 801715 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what gives < 1340349684 933899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda and proc are the same < 1340349772 711623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1340349772 910480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1340349792 394340 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you get a normal lambda < 1340349826 252392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a normal lambda < 1340349844 958502 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i declare an anonymous function which returns 5 < 1340349853 533966 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not 'declare' but create, as a value < 1340349854 192359 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda { 5 } < 1340349854 723025 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1340349858 773430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh: < 1340349864 632900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what is a function < 1340349865 256789 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo; b = lambda { return 5 }; ['hi', b.call]; end < 1340349867 713383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean somethiing you can do < 1340349869 172004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(foo) on < 1340349870 249106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't < 1340349871 66874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :def foo; b = Proc.new { return 5 }; ['hi', b.call]; end < 1340349874 952927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean something you can do < 1340349877 988861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.call(foo) on < 1340349879 789282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then lambda { 5 } < 1340349880 220522 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1340349884 654575 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1340349898 647855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby's solution to this is honestly not as bad as it sounds given certain syntactic things ruby desires < 1340349901 334320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc == lambda != Proc.new < 1340349904 91386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of ugly even then < 1340349926 921242 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but you can't call the result of Proc.new without .call? < 1340349933 413366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm not quite sure. < 1340349940 116074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that doesn't really make *sense* < 1340349944 258210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in foo(bar), foo isn't a value < 1340349947 145942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a name < 1340349949 573788 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck not < 1340349954 977336 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of shit-ass language is this < 1340349959 470374 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in C, foo there is a value < 1340349961 933625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ruby supports calling functions without parentheses. < 1340349964 871354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's complicated :P < 1340349973 854047 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want the value foo you can use Method.new(:foo) or something like that. < 1340349974 53158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is a bad language but this isn't as unreasonable as it sounds < 1340349985 437054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is inherited from Perl. < 1340349992 684828 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's no excuse < 1340350024 456135 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Ruby better or worse than OCaml? < 1340350054 37664 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a shitty question < 1340350072 362517 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages are not totally ordered < 1340350074 84201 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for PHP < 1340350120 927349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAOS is worse. < 1340350144 32840 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what are you looking for in a language, anyway < 1340350146 959695 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you want to use it for < 1340350159 148017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "Everything" isn't a good answer < 1340350166 588139 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... an OK answer < 1340350169 178756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for comparing it with other languages !! < 1340350171 110294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: nothing < 1340350173 776765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo doesn't code < 1340350178 505953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just learns languages and gives up on them < 1340350200 157742 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually do write code sometimes. < 1340350239 867191 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Antiposeball-5-SAVE-PRIMS-ON-FURNITURE/219014 is not a thing that could exists if I did not write code. < 1340350270 760997 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you see my .COM file? < 1340350281 145953 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h<|XP- {P_X(%GGG(%GGWZ- sh LI!XI!Hello, DOS!$ < 1340350308 109989 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if this can be made smaller < 1340350320 632637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ais523 < 1340350332 651212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wrote a program which turned strings of text into printable com files that printed them < 1340350337 443659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which was itself a printable COM file, I think < 1340350342 682499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it a uudecoder in printable COM < 1340350344 117517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1340350346 164197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awesome ask him about it < 1340350347 117859 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, pro < 1340350351 410132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was a uudecoder yeah < 1340350358 940010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he could transfer binary files over text lines < 1340350361 821932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any prerequisites < 1340350364 358631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... except for DOS < 1340350445 141164 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps just COMBOOT. < 1340350473 624907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a PHP bug where I completely agree with the PHP team in every respect and think the behaviour is reasonable < 1340350476 62042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a first < 1340350481 729442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bug report, that is < 1340350483 926642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696 < 1340350497 445733 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have some sympathy for their position as well < 1340350510 294502 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that person really has this hellish dev environment, they should have been testing RCs < 1340350512 236042 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(format supported by syslinux bootloaders, in its 16 bit mode, if not using Syslinux-specific APIs, is a COM file that only uses BIOS calls) < 1340350521 706537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best part is where the reporter asks rasmus to escalate the issue < 1340350523 663071 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said the function shouldn't return 0 or NULL, it should throw an exception < 1340350526 656949 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i lolled at that < 1340350538 377582 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, has a small handful of DOS APIs. < 1340350548 66269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: php doesn't really have "errors" < 1340350553 454371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not type ones < 1340350553 858992 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anything trivial) < 1340350554 519372 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340350636 781577 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it significantly likely that the problem can't be fixed with a search/replace, perhaps to a custom function that emulates the old behavior? < 1340350653 968752 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read the thread < 1340350667 539673 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Each of those changes will have to be coded, tested, written-off, released, tested by the clients since this is tax data and has to be precise for tax planning and retirement planning." < 1340350746 998781 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for every changed line of code? < 1340350963 642110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently something on that order < 1340351396 612998 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340351429 453952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: rasmus gives the exact search and replace < 1340351438 863816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's adding a single cast to the first argument of every function < 1340351442 588130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, you wrote that? < 1340351443 498217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1340351444 957749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evrey function call < 1340351445 884483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of that call < 1340351446 787226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*every < 1340351447 325845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgoji < 1340351448 405071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orgji < 1340351449 191574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'r;lkhkrt < 1340351450 778118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :krogjirge < 1340351456 949372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was that anti-virus test code thing, but I guess not. < 1340351473 550377 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340351473 786299 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i wrote it < 1340351480 58259 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of adding COM support to my polyglot < 1340351510 22683 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they're using eval? < 1340351520 63791 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that self-modifying code? < 1340351525 820418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that would be stupid, but given who we're dealing with < 1340351547 30271 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*using eval in ... ways worse than normal eval. < 1340351715 249107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1340351715 456697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rasmus Lerdorf is a braindamaged idiot. He always was, and it was obvious from start. Shame on everybody who uses anything he touched. < 1340351715 655678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could escalate, he could ask some adults to fix this issue. But he won't because he is naughty. < 1340351715 968509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1340351719 887878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know proggit is the best < 1340351749 94711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile at the top of hacker news "16,000 core neural net (andrew ng/jeff dean) - singularity is near (research.google.com)" < 1340351790 442872 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1340351804 969984 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because the interrupt instruction is not ASCII < 1340351814 328198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1340351820 704428 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any non-self-modifying way to do it? < 1340351834 433386 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know, but feel free to try :) < 1340351839 599364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any non-self-modifying way to execute some code that is not in ASCII with just ASCII < 1340351839 798380 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am curious to hear about any improvements to this code < 1340351844 698926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing ... no? < 1340351846 393349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no i have an idea < 1340351850 302200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scan RAM for the interrupt instruction < 1340351851 805814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then jump there < 1340351856 680697 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are other ways to get to the "print shit on the screen" code < 1340351857 389660 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340351860 105223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't self-modify < 1340351861 776412 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm wondering whether there's a jump instruction. < 1340351864 281989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like self-modification < 1340351865 732962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but minus a MOV < 1340351878 830492 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just read the interrupt vector table and then far jump to the right place < 1340351904 101886 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions you get are: or and daa sub das xor aaa cmp aas inc dec push pop pusha popa push insb insw outsb outsw jo jno jb jae jz jnz jbe ja js jns jp jnp jl jge jle < 1340351908 608851 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not every form of those < 1340351938 967053 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you have those jumps? < 1340351945 929206 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it different in real mode? < 1340352022 687904 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As.... biased I may be against Republicans, how is http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/richard-mourdock-obamacare-youtube-accident.php?ref=fpa a big deal at all < 1340352046 609439 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is real mode < 1340352050 602906 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some guy accidentally posted video reactions to several possible Supreme Court rulings) < 1340352057 453821 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have conditional jumps < 1340352057 794207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Right, which is why I was asking. < 1340352059 688499 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive offsets only < 1340352078 757581 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you also have bound and arpl but those aren't on the 8086 < 1340352092 719500 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i didn't include \t because fuck tabs < 1340352184 669952 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried using the INT at 0000h or the long call at 0005h? < 1340352209 464530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very printable! < 1340352221 657106 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct such numbers (this code does) < 1340352227 238292 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no indirect jump/call, either < 1340352246 254233 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in memory 0000h or 00005h when a .COM file runs. They're in the header. < 1340352276 276447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Next step: Write a printable MBR < 1340352293 264563 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: the last byte of a MBR isn't printable < 1340352296 938896 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, like, what's the point, man < 1340352317 152276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1340352365 831919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write just the executable program part of MBR as printable < 1340352420 393410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: write a printable bootloader < 1340352439 849901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, I think what ais523 wrote is something which turned any program printable through self-modification < 1340352445 816166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then converted a uudecoder with it < 1340352447 410556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... something < 1340352464 649305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :john_metcalf: Yeah, but how do you encode that address in the printable code? < 1340352472 238716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you just have to alculate it. < 1340352485 175230 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you jump there once you calculated < 1340352504 854412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm having trouble groking the purpose of the Functor type class. What benefit is there in deriving a class from Functor? Especially since every derived type is going to have to supply an implementation anyway. < 1340352546 596341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's really dumb "newS" < 1340352547 658155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*news < 1340352561 241791 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I agree. < 1340352571 785650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as tired as "all political parties are the same lol dumbos" stuff is you can't really expect reasonability on either side of a political campaign < 1340352597 710231 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Fark thread on it has a few people objecting to the fact that the messages were pre-recorded, rather than just the speech being pre-written < 1340352649 675648 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, I think that's silly. < 1340352685 118231 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly not surprised to find that he did that at all... < 1340352720 107140 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, heck, it straight-up makes *sense* to have a bunch of speeches pre-written, and pre-recording them is just one extra step. < 1340352721 983555 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are quoting? < 1340352740 784161 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially makes sense for a person who is probably quite busy. < 1340352757 17287 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, absolutely < 1340352758 15092 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record a bunch of responses for things over the course of an afternoon, release as needed. < 1340352797 931187 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of an embarassing accident to release them all, but it's still *not a big deal*. < 1340352801 17882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1340352815 35484 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at me i say "grok" instead of "understand" without understanding what "grok" means < 1340352817 697632 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, arguably it's humorous < 1340352820 598522 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :horp glurp ponk donk < 1340352841 267424 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling into the balls tank < 1340352843 68858 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yup. < 1340352850 19588 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should grok some more water < 1340352855 324944 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beer me that water, bro < 1340352875 514217 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually read the damned book, so there. :P < 1340352883 487972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should read that law < 1340352890 325036 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1340352974 823271 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know nixon had a speech prepared in case they had to leave neil armstrong and buzz aldrin stranded on the moon to die < 1340352979 361183 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shame there's no recording of that < 1340353003 824583 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he hadn't actually recorded it. < 1340353005 409293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that speech is depressing < 1340353011 539148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hence why there is no recording of it < 1340353013 228377 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We drop turkeys out of planes just to fill up the sky / And we know damn well that they can't fly" < 1340353017 846032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't record live speeches :P < 1340353020 14080 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, the one he actually read was done live. < 1340353021 812007 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a winner < 1340353033 837985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanx < 1340353069 259886 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/390933.stm < 1340353069 458435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, grog. < 1340353073 437183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION groks some grog. < 1340353075 610359 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit weird, realising we went to the *moon* at a time where it was impractical to pre-record the President. < 1340353080 38889 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION groks some water < 1340353091 663451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brog like rocks! < 1340353095 109038 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm! < 1340353106 277083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you been to the moon ?? < 1340353133 348510 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not really impractical < 1340353158 326065 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean NASA recorded all that video from the moon on magnetic tape < 1340353164 352001 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and film works too < 1340353179 554762 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just not much of a point to it < 1340353190 10328 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: At the time, you'd only record stuff if you wanted it to run more than once, in part because of the expense. < 1340353197 120978 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the president can't be trusted to give a speech without fucking it up then... < 1340353206 923593 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reflects on 2001-2008 < 1340353214 70583 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins kmc in reflection < 1340353222 237388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have never been to the moon, can you prove it? < 1340353235 734103 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, if we reflect each other then we'll create a quantum time vortex that might rip the very fabric of spacetime from this channel! < 1340353256 401460 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a quantum time vortex? < 1340353262 794762 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what *isn't* a quantum time vortex, man < 1340353268 365785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's a science thing. You wouldn't understand. < 1340353285 385376 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are working hard to convince both the Indians and the Pakis there's a way to deal with their problems without going to war." < 1340353288 405036 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sob* < 1340353300 483043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/390933.stm < 1340353307 493324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving that the bbc news site has always been the best-designed of all the news sites < 1340353309 379310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION PATRIOTISM < 1340353309 774333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nixon < 1340353310 238821 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics would be a helluva good business if it weren't for the goddamned people. < 1340353328 996069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(displays were tiny in 1999 so that probably looked non-terrible!) < 1340353334 5668 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 640x480? < 1340353345 821777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Labour "got it wrong" when it allowed uncontrolled immigration from new EU states in 2004, Ed Miliband will say in a speech later." < 1340353349 736160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Labour leader will say people who worry about immigration are not "bigots"" < 1340353369 553175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently labour has decided that moving to the right is an excellent idea at a time when the right-leaning coalition government is unpopular < 1340353392 847035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most left-wing main party has become kinda unelectable < 1340353397 646331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx labour < 1340353405 139567 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thlabour < 1340353419 939148 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a standard policy to always move right when your policies are unliked? < 1340353424 814773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can 5-HT_2A agonists take me to the moon? < 1340353429 808912 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in general? < 1340353434 88207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: *thabour < 1340353435 398733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noob < 1340353449 538777 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well, if you can raise $100M selling them < 1340353455 973580 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1340353461 963009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you do that? < 1340353469 234009 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hear there's rumors on the internets [pause] that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period." — Bush, 2004 < 1340353475 381379 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He actually said internets? < 1340353477 858528 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in 2005, Space Adventures announced its intention to work with Russian Spacecraft manufacturer Energia and the Russian Space Agency to offer a roughly one-week two-passenger flight around the Moon (no orbit, no landing) in a booster-equipped Soyuz craft for $100 million per person, as early as 2010" < 1340353497 559689 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, "internets" is a fine word < 1340353514 494944 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bush was just acknowledging the reality that the Internet is itself composed of smaller internetworks < 1340353516 514216 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, but it doesn't refer (just) to the Internet. < 1340353531 968081 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Bush knows that much about internetworking. < 1340353541 688936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MULTInet. < 1340353544 939652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE < 1340353545 573667 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n.b. once they have your $100 million they will probably ask for more < 1340353548 411648 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wikitravel.org/en/Space < 1340353570 639242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if, like, every ip address that doesn't respond on the internet is like a BLACK HOLE < 1340353571 242071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: as bushisms go that is really tame come on < 1340353574 57232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do better than that < 1340353577 966326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, like, it has a whole new pocket internet inside it < 1340353585 731589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a parallel multinet < 1340353598 21213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "There are quite a few space-related places on the Earth itself." < 1340353608 969339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is using DrRacket with the SICP language a good way to do SICP? < 1340353648 970333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340353655 274948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's up to you" < 1340353669 631946 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeahyeahyeah. < 1340353672 930812 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd rather not. < 1340353697 187263 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm afraid if I go for the worse one's I'll shoot. Myself or someone else, either way it's undesirable. < 1340353702 560412 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/one's/ones/ < 1340353720 786739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The whole point of going to the moon is landing. < 1340353727 343059 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you go and then not land? < 1340353729 119247 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm inclined to agree with you there < 1340353731 777991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "The sight of the *Earth* from Space is reputed to be incomparable." < 1340353737 706522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "At altitudes above the thick atmosphere, the *stars* cease to "twinkle"." < 1340353746 788665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "*Sunrise* and *sunset* lose much of their multicolored glory, but take on greater intensity and speed at orbital and even suborbital velocities." < 1340353769 361444 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I can get rid of my web browser < 1340353775 421296 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanxs elliot < 1340353799 24902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Although Space food has come a long way in terms of taste and variety in recent decades, the quality and taste is still not up to standards of most connoisseurs of fine cuisine. Your transportation provider may offer some choice in the foods available, but you will ultimately be limited by their willingness to indulge you." < 1340353806 683098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Bigelow Aerospace, [13]. In 2006, they successfully tested the first prototype of an inflatable Space hotel. However, even if everything goes according to plan, the real thing won't be up in orbit before 2012." < 1340353809 403731 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BE SURE TO PASTE THE COPYRIGHT NOTICE TOO < 1340353817 63880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "Text is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0, images are available under various licenses, see each image for details." < 1340353826 614449 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "i think kmc is hitnitng at somethign" < 1340353851 51557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: waht could he poIBSlY be hinting at - god - gad - gud < 1340353879 651173 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was all ready to burn my draft card in 2003 < 1340353898 275995 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead i watched on TV as the children of more economically disadvantaged families fought the war < 1340353902 669968 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then snarked about it on the internet < 1340353905 517859 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's protest too rite? < 1340353916 270137 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just fucking depressing. < 1340353922 13972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1340353924 543520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you get a gold star < 1340353936 396958 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, remember when the USA literally filled a C-130 cargo plane with $20 bills and flew it to Iraq and then lost the money? < 1340354004 566172 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1340354039 723411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are the legal 5-HT_2A agonists any good? < 1340354050 535308 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we discuss that recently < 1340354055 602986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we? < 1340354064 416893 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2C-E is pretty good, if you consider that legal < 1340354085 772197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a 5Hwhatever? < 1340354088 669430 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340354091 712430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1340354096 663860 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethyl-phenethylamine < 1340354138 197349 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, 5-HT is a legal 5-HT agonist and is a pretty cool guy < 1340354154 285309 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much good taking it orally though < 1340354157 363355 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the 2A part mean? < 1340354162 870522 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a receptor subtype < 1340354184 482897 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all serotonin (5-HT) receptors but there are different types which respond differently to different other chemicals < 1340354188 872789 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know man, i'm not a neurochemist < 1340354230 348089 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent these drugs have different effects, it's probably through different receptor type selectivity < 1340354232 348444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just work there. < 1340354248 468578 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only really clear example I have is DiPT, which has a specific auditory effect which the others don't have < 1340354264 101379 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a nonlinear pitch shift + flanging < 1340354280 495349 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think shulgin got one of his musician friends with perfect pitch to take it < 1340354360 343879 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, 5-HTP is a metabolic precursor to 5-HT that you can buy at any dietary supplement store < 1340354364 599473 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the counter < 1340354381 192223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no expert, but effects like that sound easier to do by just running some filters on a DSP or whatever, instead of trying to do it in your auditory system. < 1340354385 798476 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to act as a mild antidepressant < 1340354412 441450 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think you are missing the point :) < 1340354417 898458 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're not an expert? < 1340354422 6391 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day it will be possible to generate sounds by physical simulation of vibration :D < 1340354431 311136 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how far away such things are < 1340354446 376878 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that was done in like the 80's < 1340354451 532715 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most of the things itidus21 says will happen "one day" < 1340354469 485855 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340354479 903853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do physical-inspired string instrument simulation in our acoustics lab. < 1340354482 297211 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_modeling_synthesis < 1340354499 238492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've written some papers on Finnish instruments like the kantele. < 1340354506 814789 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1340354526 78969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all include some amount of approximation, though. < 1340354532 744522 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a sensible starting point given that it's the stupidest instrument in the world < 1340354536 635142 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have a number in my nickname... like a robot! < 1340354543 167973 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the electric kantele is used in finnish heavy metal < 1340354547 959630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly modeling strings at subatomic level. < 1340354563 251437 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :modeling strings by modeling strings < 1340354566 762935 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what we demand < 1340354567 697618 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no less < 1340354570 749666 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zardoz has spoken < 1340354593 528455 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340354608 600910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/research/asp/ < 1340354608 799208 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they say, you can't simulate strings without understanding string theory < 1340354636 757902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have some lutes. And "mainstream" stuff. < 1340354643 833202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also say you can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish < 1340354649 362151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really looked too closely. < 1340354731 562093 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm shin ramyun < 1340354735 256278 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my new favorite snack < 1340354785 848548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it? < 1340354793 711874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it vegetarian? < 1340354795 950482 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant ramen < 1340354808 34353 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :far tastier and more filling than top ramen / maruchan < 1340354813 551066 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like $1 a pack instead of 20¢ < 1340354848 163096 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the one i have contains beef powder < 1340354850 116698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not vegetarian. < 1340354852 594843 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if they make other flavors < 1340354853 490636 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :/ < 1340354858 171446 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also quite spicy < 1340355023 639178 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Alas, that probably comes in two varieties: "with meat" and "animal genocide". < 1340355048 126017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which animal? < 1340355057 874328 :fad!~fad@130.43.64.77.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340355065 499993 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genocide against the clade Animalia. < 1340355075 943925 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that, like, regicide < 1340355118 582337 :fad!~fad@130.43.64.77.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr PART :#esoteric < 1340355639 718365 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: here's the source to my com file https://gist.github.com/2971501 < 1340355642 919689 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to make it better < 1340355662 164033 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340355706 568613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the source file has the compiled binary in a comment. < 1340355754 462410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC News headline: Player 'completes' Diablo III video game < 1340355808 809401 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but i missed the opportunity to make the source code also an executable com file < 1340355848 685950 :lahwran-!lahwran@sonicrules.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1340355859 598964 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC is an example of the confusion < 1340355898 339383 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know dot-coms haven't been "all the rage" for more than 10 years, right? < 1340355903 675445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all about the agile social now. < 1340355905 903764 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm bringing it back < 1340355917 518917 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the English Broadcasting Corporation, or the UK Broadcasting Corporation < 1340356023 263373 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[The BBC's] main responsibility is to provide impartial public service broadcasting in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands and Isle of Man." < 1340356050 275513 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a jig. < 1340356181 673538 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you jigging < 1340356189 82232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In addition, he used a "hard core" character. This meant that, if the character died once, the game would be over. He also got in-game help from another player called Krippi.]] < 1340356194 406872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :journalism < 1340356209 624161 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: BBC does serve the parts of UK which are not in Britain < 1340356304 679455 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the UK situation is less complicated than NYC-area place names < 1340356312 953345 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340356413 789016 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, NYC, Manhattan (borough), Manhattan (island), Brooklyn, Kings County, Long Island, and "The City" < 1340356423 185742 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit of a mess to explain how these things relate geographically and politically < 1340356424 524556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The City /= NYC? < 1340356429 899097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Can you implement a better language than Haskell for me? < 1340356437 299183 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: some people use it to mean Manhattan < 1340356448 876140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :New York, New York, so good they named it once but then used the same name again < 1340356453 944876 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't *think* i made that up < 1340356457 14828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And Manhattan is New York County! < 1340356457 373967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because they were unimaginative < 1340356461 925978 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1340356469 944458 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you live in manhattan you can get mail addressed to "New York, NY" < 1340356504 839015 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in the other parts of NYC? < 1340356519 221388 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it will probably work but it's not proper < 1340356521 808073 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SIPB, MIT, USA" < 1340356536 950300 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was there once! < 1340356547 936265 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have a New York, NY address even if you live in that part of Manhattan (borough) which is not on Manhattan (island) < 1340356558 23225 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you live there you can also have a Bronx, NY address, I think < 1340356564 188944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Structure and Interpretation of Pomputer Brograms? < 1340356612 574043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are brograms what a brogrammer writes < 1340356640 697431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do they really use the word 'programmme' in britain < 1340356649 428297 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brogramme < 1340356673 315902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't watch many brogrammes. I don't even own one. < 1340356681 891433 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you pay TV tax?!? < 1340356689 370613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no ! < 1340356692 904483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's TV tax < 1340356716 74960 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in UK you have to pay a license fee to have a TV < 1340356719 571831 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom < 1340356736 642594 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Licences are half price for the legally blind." < 1340356754 716371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : As of 2010, this costs £145.50 for colour and £49.00 for black and white.[1] < 1340356761 143142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should charge more for black and white. < 1340356783 384514 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, can we have us.wikipedia.org and uk.wikpedia.org? < 1340356811 111805 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1340356825 502314 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipædia.org < 1340356837 759011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess au.wikipedia.org would be asking too much < 1340356881 483240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i see what you're saying now < 1340356891 528267 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the BBC has vans which they claim can detect unlicensed TVs < 1340356905 171012 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color < 1340356919 370250 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is widely considered to be bullshit < 1340357010 504989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The color table should not be interpreted as a definitive list – the pure spectral colors form a continuous spectrum, and how it is divided into distinct colors linguistically is a matter of culture and historical contingency (although people everywhere have been shown to perceive colors in the same way[2])." < 1340357038 397465 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, what if, like, yeah < 1340357070 24460 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uk.wikipedia.org could be s/color/colour < 1340357082 578887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more concerned with "license" and "licence". < 1340357086 872860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the en. page uses both. < 1340357166 575908 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favourite < 1340357253 117361 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Successful minister-favourites also usually needed networks of their own favourites and relatives to help them carry out the work of government - Richelieu had his "créatures" and Olivares his "hechuras"." < 1340357276 364954 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well you need to use one of each, so it will be legally binding in all jurisdictions < 1340357376 79617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is obviously bullshit < 1340357383 874204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: also they tend to pester people even if they don't own a tv < 1340357404 501233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(otoh, the people who get *persistently* pestered by them tend to be the sorts who seem to be looking for something to complain about in the first place) < 1340357414 124338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should see their tv ads < 1340357428 710163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find the one i'm thinking of < 1340357459 274468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uIpbpSU3XA < 1340357598 465521 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340357645 315175 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1340358748 775447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.2012ark.net/ < 1340359035 561688 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-58.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340359035 798398 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-58.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1340359035 798519 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340359078 634961 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340359204 155617 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: erm, so where can you actually hear the results? < 1340359215 919103 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/research/asp/ just has a bunch of papers < 1340359244 768702 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry < 1340359369 761071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so what does that audio topic mean for me? quite simply a game with no pre-recorded audio! < 1340359538 769620 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno much about sound and music and stuff.. but like for example, the current sound could be a function of the distances between all the geometrical game entities < 1340359622 906505 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if there were 3 circles, then the sound could be a function of the average distance between them < 1340359684 504694 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1340361129 611972 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you would set up a virtual microphone which would recieve soundwaves < 1340362115 432160 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340363395 38306 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1340365310 682555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1340366556 274171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my turing machine! http://oi50.tinypic.com/29z9egm.jpg < 1340367389 838408 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340368097 758889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@168-103-255-220.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340368103 248694 :pikhq!~pikhq@70-56-230-157.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1340368250 172729 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: simulating sound propogation is something that games have done for a long time < 1340368327 534646 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340368363 966951 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it seems to me that a variable sound response could be a fun way to respond to a collision < 1340368432 832200 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like normally that collision response information seems to be used for, well, i'm not sure.. but it could be used as a function of how loud an impact is < 1340368541 687555 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is done also < 1340368557 187884 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most people have better sense than to do it :D < 1340368568 827602 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm confused < 1340368585 643308 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when an object runs headlong into a wall and the velocity gets set to zero. the amount of velocity which was lost could produce a sound < 1340368590 391223 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340368592 760796 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a bad idea < 1340368644 848107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see any particular reason why < 1340368661 415934 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1340368664 592887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1340368670 266548 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its a good idea < 1340368672 782736 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what you said about the circles flying around and making music and whatever < 1340368687 665914 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first i assumed you were just talking about modeling sound propogation in an environment < 1340368693 569679 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a novel idea -- games have done that for many years < 1340368707 969232 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i thought you meant something more like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditorium_(video_game) < 1340368710 963611 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a neat game < 1340368791 619523 :lahwran-!lahwran@sonicrules.org QUIT :Changing host < 1340368791 818625 :lahwran-!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1340368798 534250 :lahwran-!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran NICK :lahwran < 1340368847 997882 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340368895 641040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well in this whole topic, im in trouble from the get-go... my conception of producing sound is nothing beyond the QBASIC function SOUND(frequency, duration) < 1340368923 964107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i didnt know it had a duration argument until i looked it up just now < 1340368967 315883 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i gathered as much < 1340368973 619786 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game sound is in fact a bit more complex these days ;P < 1340369039 598083 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340369169 723857 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, about 3 circles {a,b,c} .. what i had in mind was something like: n=distance(a,b)+distance(a,c)+distance(b,c)/3; SOUND(n,30 milliseconds?) < 1340369223 823141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually i think it would be kind of cool in such a system how destroying one of the circles would lead to a sudden change in the sound < 1340369273 106055 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well n could be normalized into a comfortable set of frequencies < 1340369314 512294 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this page says duration works in clock ticks.. that could be "tricky" < 1340369526 26438 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was within the last few months i think that it clicked to me that sound can be produced within a physics simulation < 1340369574 623330 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that with enough computing power and good algorithms behind it, we could even hear how fictional objects and instruments might sound < 1340369632 402632 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but i don't even know what i mean by fictional objects! < 1340369799 977268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we could simulate the sound of filling some time and place with air and putting a microphone there < 1340369981 166642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the truth is if i actually did more in my day i wouldn't feel the need to ramble < 1340370751 179046 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340370830 892071 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'morning, all! < 1340370962 312488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340371242 406050 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340371713 401754 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340371717 601577 :AnotherTest1!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1340371984 170616 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily! < 1340372006 714776 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.1895 < 1340372037 954846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb! < 1340372041 464707 :AnotherTest1!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be NICK :AnotherTest < 1340372146 331776 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: infact i actually linked to the very same thing in this room once >:D < 1340372153 947020 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1340372155 995098 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okidoke < 1340372156 589662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is time to take a closer look < 1340372163 765704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i appreicate it though < 1340372181 980232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadnt read it.. :-j white papers are mostly about reading the titles for me < 1340372227 207917 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am working on a cool turing machine < 1340372260 466435 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lost deep in browser tab hell < 1340372315 324502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahaha < 1340372527 10590 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: turing machine and browser tabs... hmm... is it possible to crate a machine where the tape is an infinite stream of browser tabs? < 1340372653 814583 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: not on the iPad for sure(unless they changed that awful limit) < 1340372682 175124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: well.. i am fascinated by the movement of a turtle shell in super mario bros. and the way the turtle shell resembles a tapehead < 1340372782 797122 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340372811 564011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i am satisfied now that the turtle shell is a turing machine, not a turing complete language < 1340372928 268359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340372969 180146 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dislodges a spork and returns it to oerjan  < 1340373464 242874 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1340373475 57435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks pal < 1340374115 683793 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340374678 242134 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu[Zzz] < 1340374687 502925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu[Zzz]: don't do that :( < 1340374705 328665 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... so i go to google and i see the last thing i expected to see < 1340374747 244461 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://www.google.com < 1340374768 88143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, can we have us.wikipedia.org and uk.wikpedia.org? <-- you can have the latter. < 1340374775 58698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, +i < 1340374800 638933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find it disappointingly non-british, though. < 1340374873 221520 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is the turing machine i made just now: http://oi47.tinypic.com/35n31ip.jpg < 1340375946 925780 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want you can < 1340375950 344796 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it out < 1340375964 793737 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my awesome language! < 1340375965 667552 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/NTCM < 1340377124 354950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: so i have a version of python on windows but i have no idea about python.. but it's giving invalid syntax for the > in "while b<>"esc":" < 1340377154 296642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that something in python has changed which has rendered old programs not working right < 1340377212 228418 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that its something screwy with document formats etc < 1340377227 919457 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something tells me i can assume the program itself is fine < 1340377390 12648 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: "<>" is a very, very old way to write "!=". < 1340377461 259673 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it just doesn't like the encoding.. < 1340377471 254543 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll sort it out i think < 1340377576 571515 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i told it the proper encoding < 1340377579 847242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1340377609 758696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> is obsolete, but still in the manual, so it should work... < 1340377626 505836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*obsolescent < 1340377954 710692 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still works in python 2 (2.7.3 on my machine), but chokes in python 3 (3.2.3). < 1340378222 294553 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an esolang which is based on the idea where the instruction pointer is at multiple positions at the same time < 1340378229 603540 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1340378256 379090 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, always, not optionally) < 1340378441 248173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it is working < 1340378496 308524 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i had to change was to replace all the <> with != and to change print foo into print (foo) and change raw_input to input < 1340378537 715704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you have python 3 < 1340378557 205812 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not for any good reason though < 1340378871 203209 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 PART :#esoteric < 1340378985 514241 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna look into pygame but then i regained my self respect < 1340379550 884773 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. i piped it into a textfile.. which i think is pretty good for a novice windows user < 1340379567 348803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i quickly got 4mb of hello world! < 1340379659 726988 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads me to think, a file system should have optional size constraints < 1340379676 809650 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can say, this file cannot become larger than N bytes < 1340379701 931558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< this is why i don't design OSs < 1340380438 702024 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why Steam so often has to install DirectX. < 1340380438 940949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1340380443 741070 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think once would be enough. < 1340380461 615573 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its conservation of installs < 1340380479 208579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :install windows once, install directx many < 1340380498 791443 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :install linux many, install opengl once < 1340380973 78480 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you use Steam on Wine on Linux... D-8 < 1340380994 752461 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1340381167 616249 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did you put egobot on umlbox yet < 1340381244 203721 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1340381257 665395 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bye < 1340381628 718222 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340381636 151410 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1340381833 28878 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340381847 702398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1340381965 449312 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had an exam today < 1340382004 556660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1340382256 551381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a national midsummer holiday day today; no exams. < 1340382263 76692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of fire, though. < 1340382505 594450 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340382686 783530 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Excess Flood < 1340382886 512316 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340383068 662584 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-155-215.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340383073 606906 :pikhq_!~pikhq@168-103-255-220.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1340383156 792708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1340383341 617408 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the exam went well < 1340383845 6500 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340384724 346168 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lines in xkcd are thicker now < 1340384949 90838 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1340385035 133354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a scale thing. The dude is taller than the last dude, too. < 1340385076 726893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't checked if they stay a consistent size.) < 1340386094 311846 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 : So did the program work in the end? < 1340386110 161691 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't use it in a while < 1340386116 85600 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1340386127 762963 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact i just now got the use out of it i wanted < 1340386137 386320 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo! < 1340386147 960372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. i will show you my turing machine in NTCM < 1340386178 59595 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[4[5:P0RI:0;0:P0RI:0;1:P1RI:0;2:P2RI:0;3:P3RI:0;4:P4RI:0]|0[5:P4LE:1;0:P0RI:0;1:P0RI:2;2:P1LE:1;3:P2LE:1;4:P4LE:1]|1[5:P4RI:0;0:P0LE:1;1:P0LE:3;2:P1RI:0;3:P2RI:0;4:P4RI:0]|2[5:P4LE:3;0:P0RI:2;1:P0RI:2;2:P1LE:3;3:P2LE:3;4:P0LE:1]|3[5:P4RI:2;0:P0LE:3;1:P0LE:3;2:P1RI:2;3:P2RI:2;4:P0RI:0]][0=5;ims=4;d10;vh;etFecF;t1] < 1340386273 677144 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i added 2 or 3 lines of python so that it will animate the output so i can watch it move < 1340386338 335773 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this machine is really for that purpose >:-) < 1340386545 959876 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iiii don't have Python anymore < 1340386551 968352 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-197-40.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1340386577 944891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. it's inspired by super mario bros. turtle shells < 1340386592 337452 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTCM? is that a list of states and transitions? i can almost read it. < 1340386601 404739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about the head bouncing back and forth < 1340386642 453075 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :4:P0LE:1 does that mean go to state 4, move left, leave behind a 1? < 1340386694 442954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "0=5;ims=4;d10;vh;etFecF;t1" seems somewhat nontrivial to figure out with no apriori knowledge. < 1340386703 479575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1340386707 441969 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cant be < 1340386713 102244 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it means if the symbol is 4, go to state 1, move left, and leave behind a 0 < 1340386726 937818 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1340386873 460581 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the turtle shell thing again? < 1340386887 423842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol.. yes.. i didn't stop.. < 1340386899 462933 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is a more sophisticated turtle shell < 1340386973 200436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems more complicated than would be necessary for just the left-right bounce. Incidentally, does that formulation permit a don't-move case? All I see is just PxRI or PxLE. < 1340386998 517368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does a few curious things < 1340387240 916570 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did do a picture of it earlier though < 1340387251 965283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would that spoil all the fun of reading it in NTCM < 1340387322 999323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oi47.tinypic.com/35n31ip.jpg < 1340387510 330546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340387778 392254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I vaguely recall JFLAP. < 1340387796 189269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe from a course or something. < 1340387818 673740 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340387827 808130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it works is that when the head hits a 1, then the turtle shell becomes more powerful < 1340387832 772504 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of like it < 1340387919 929367 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition when it hits a 3 that 3 becomes a 2, and next time it becomes a 1 < 1340387959 441476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh.. theres all kinds of zaniness that it does < 1340388030 413349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you giving it an initial tape to play with? I mean, I might misremember the syntax, but the "square ; 4" bits make it look like it'd just put 4s at the edges. < 1340388081 588802 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. the sample input on the tape i used with NTCM is 40000001012122301040001001 < 1340388092 85542 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340388093 412774 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the NTCM version 5 is a blank < 1340388116 553397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when testing it with JFLAP i just put random things in similar to that < 1340388131 152696 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340388584 153162 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1340388584 352255 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1340389357 76957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340389586 488335 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340389810 555444 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340390087 574488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we have a computer with 3D display, one thing that can be displayed would be 3D horoscopes. < 1340390156 695880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some astrologers say all horoscopes that include objects other than the Sun are 3D, but they don't know what 3D means, that is why they are astrologers.) < 1340391188 552348 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote (Some astrologers say all horoscopes that include objects other than the Sun are 3D, but they don't know what 3D means, that is why they are astrologers.) < 1340391192 105865 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1340391192 462471 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :845) (Some astrologers say all horoscopes that include objects other than the Sun are 3D, but they don't know what 3D means, that is why they are astrologers.) < 1340391250 259426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am temporarily happy.. i'm in that pattern where i keep working on a thing, unable to let it rest on it's laurels < 1340391272 441361 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1340391300 104571 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably not very readable now, but this is one hell of a kick ass turing machine in NTCM: < 1340391307 131079 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[4[ :P_RI:4;_:P_RI:4;*:P*RI:4;o:PoRI:4;O:PORI:4;|:P|RI:4;S:P_:0]|0[ :P|LE:1;_:P_RI:0;*:P_RI:2;o:P*LE:1;O:PoLE:1;|:P|LE:1;S:P_:0]|1[ :P|RI:0;_:P_LE:1;*:P_LE:3;o:P*RI:0;O:PoRI:0;|:P|RI:0;S:P_:1]|2[ :P|LE:3;_:P_RI:2;*:P_RI:2;o:P*LE:3;O:PoLE:3;|:P_LE:1;S:P_:2]|3[ :P|RI:2;_:P_LE:3;*:P_LE:3;o:P*RI:2;O:PoRI:2;|:P_RI:0;S:P_:3]][0= ;ims=4;d13;vh;etFecF;t1] < 1340391669 328851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you like this quotation? < 1340391709 225813 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Quite. < 1340391717 240052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he hates it. That is why he added it. < 1340391783 275017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree? Do you have any experience in these matters? < 1340392789 492571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our "CS theory: basics" course had some turing machine writing exercises; I remember liking those. < 1340392882 49070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were kind on the trivial side. < 1340392897 158132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340392909 614899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Design a two-tape TM that recognizes the language {wcw | w \in {a,b}*}" -- an actual example. < 1340392925 572949 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, "write the word, check the word". < 1340393003 882738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might've done a single-tape version that just checked letter-by-letter symmetrically around the c, not sure, but that's not terribly interesting either. < 1340393021 187542 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-221-74.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1340393021 635522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 8 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1340393035 834663 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's also a "design a three-tape TM that adds two binary numbers" question. < 1340393077 393499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will this thing let go of me < 1340393092 226427 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to edit the TM any more < 1340393142 83441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there is in fact a third question that's "Design a non-deterministic (single-tape) TM that recognizes {wcw | w \in {a,b}*}. How about a deterministic one?" That's why I had that one-tape version. < 1340393211 315477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know how to recognize things with a TM < 1340393246 180123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just code for "make one that ends up in a particular state when X". < 1340393281 396767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on an input? < 1340393296 180521 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Input typically being the initial contents of the tape. < 1340393322 570108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my TMs are about having fun playing with the tape < 1340393341 278786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they achieve little of actual value < 1340393357 888691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recognizes language X" meaning "ends up in state Q whenever the initial content of the tape is a word in language X, and doesn't otherwise". < 1340393383 117817 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't necessarily say these have any actual value either, they're all quite boring. < 1340393403 739185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there's even the {a^n b a^n | n >= 0} that you don't even need a TM for. < 1340393407 476934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gonna now post the umpteenth update of my turtle shell thing < 1340393426 675849 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[6[ :P_LE:6;_:P_LE:6;*:P*LE:6;o:PoLE:6;O:POLE:6;|:P|LE:6;S:P_:6;>:P>LE:1;<:P:P>RI:5;<:P:P>RI:4;<:P:P>RI:0;<:P:P>LE:1;<:P < 1340393426 997865 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P>:5;<:P<:6]|3[ :P|RI:2;_:P_LE:3;*:P_LE:3;o:P*RI:2;O:PoRI:2;|:P_RI:0;S:P_:3;>:P>:5;<:P<:6]][0= ;ims=4;d13;vh;etFecF;t1;input.txt] < 1340393463 734750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe the one that adds binary numbers could be said to have some sort of value, but still. < 1340393478 737167 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't expect it can be ledgible there.. but this is the greatest TM! < 1340393487 729044 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-16-5.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1340393712 270481 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually of course it goes without saying it's not < 1340393739 44693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I might've liked these "design a grammar" exercises more. It's almost like writing Thue, except you get course credits. (Indirectly, anyway.) < 1340393782 570287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's stuff like "design an unrestricted grammar that produces {w \in {a,b,c}* | w has equal amounts of a's, b's and c's}". < 1340393793 57811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing basically tries to be like super mario bros < 1340393805 482782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or {a^(2^n) | n >= 0}. Okay, so they're kinda boring tasks, but it's still funtimes. < 1340393827 955961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even immediately say why the a^(2^n) one works. < 1340393871 973095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's probably overly complicated.) < 1340393910 686790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you imagine each square on the tape is a graphics tile, and that the head is a turtle shell, that is the best way to understand my TM < 1340393971 574601 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, there may be other valid ways of understanding it < 1340393994 851573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"S -> >AP< | e; PA -> AAP; P< -> Q< | R; AQ -> QA; >Q -> >P; AR -> Ra; >R -> e" where e's epsilon. I guess it's just a "keep either doubling the amount of A's or alternatively make them all a's and remove the trash". < 1340394042 802418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually scratch that "| e" from S, that's obviously bogus, what can I have been thinking? < 1340394394 686788 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340394938 660072 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make closed/automatic instances in Haskell or Ibtlfmm. In Haskell you might have: auto_instance :: ([Type] -> Q (Maybe [Dec])) -> Q [Dec]; You can use this in a class declaration to make it closed and automatic. < 1340394987 664233 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340394989 814928 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1340395022 757715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1340395049 371186 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you want to pretend to be good at sport, Germany is winning < 1340395065 793656 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Against Greece < 1340395090 169273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, does anyone feel like explaining Volume of Revolution to me? < 1340395107 908886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just rotate a thing. < 1340395145 355911 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1340395185 130819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a surface of revolution, except you rotate some sort of a blorp and take the insides, instead of rotating a curve and taking just the shell. < 1340395208 36156 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume my teachers are awful and are teaching me volume of revolution before surface < 1340395254 80494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, you take a filled disc and rotate it around a suitable axis outside it, and you get a solid (volume) of revolution that makes a donut. < 1340395257 213233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what's sport < 1340395269 684699 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's a thing that normal people sometimes talk about < 1340395291 779160 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's found on the back page of some newspapers < 1340395304 727066 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, OK so when you rotate a curve about the x-axis you get a circularly symmetric volume. < 1340395315 167941 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I see that < 1340395329 353697 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember this from my days of playing with Google SketchUp < 1340395340 507335 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The area of a cross section of this volume at distance x along the axis is pi*y^2. < 1340395359 128614 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where y is the curve, obviously.) < 1340395361 565651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1340395362 102732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just rotate a curve, you probably just get a surface. < 1340395364 949460 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense < 1340395387 6720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can speak of the volume inside it, of course. < 1340395423 731853 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To find the volume, you integrate the cross sectional area along the x axis; i.e., integral from a to b pi*y^2 dx. < 1340395433 438529 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Greece has scored and they're tying < 1340395448 935875 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ooh < 1340395482 548352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so you wanted to know the volume of a solid of revolution, not just know general things about a "volume of revolution", which I think I've seen used as a synonym for a solid of revolution before. < 1340395514 887010 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1340395540 836639 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I've just got the slides from a lecture I missed due to my exam, and I'm trying to figure it out < 1340395602 29041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Germany's winning again < 1340395649 252616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, you can integrate that stuff. If what you want is not "rotate the surface between this curve and the X axis" but instead something like "surface between these two curves" (like if you wanted a hole inside the thing), you might want to use the areas of disc-with-a-hole regions. < 1340395780 928554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks fizzie and Phantom_Hoover < 1340395791 26178 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've understood enough to decipher this < 1340395975 353937 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray has surface of revolution as one of its object types. (And I'm pretty sure regular 3D modelers like Blender have a tool that'll take a segmented line of N points, rotate it with K steps, and make a N*K point mesh, but POV-Ray actually does intersection tests with the real surface, if I've understood correctly.) < 1340396009 235025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the curve is sampled, but the rotated surface part if it is right. < 1340396105 482232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the points of the curve can be connected by different kind of splines.) < 1340396174 984891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, there are details and a different-but-related 'lathe' object, but that's all probably outside the scope of this message.) < 1340396367 386836 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's 4-1 to Germany < 1340396417 589101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this still that football thing? < 1340396441 820576 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1340396448 475404 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the knock-out stage now < 1340396508 313514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray trivia: it has a "sphere sweep" object type that I think is pretty much meant for making tentacles. (Okay, I guess it could make some sort of tubes too.) < 1340396535 374670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the shape of an object sweeped by a sphere that moves from place to place and varies its radius.) < 1340396539 959609 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :POV-Ray is on my list of things to learn < 1340396569 577102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a silly thing. It's like you write this text stuff in a rude imitation of a programming language, and out comes a picture. < 1340396583 651357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can also use it as a back-end renderer, but that sounds terribly pointless. < 1340396584 635486 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to use it before < 1340396599 767234 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a pink sphere on a yellow background < 1340396621 759157 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have the dubious honour of having my code removed from Uncyclopedia < 1340396632 54442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, here's a sphere-sweep tutorial, and it's all about tentacles: http://cronodon.com/PovRay/Tentacles.html < 1340396658 640794 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Haskell&action=historysubmit&diff=5520895&oldid=5520863 < 1340396695 28978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Revert Anon; let us charitably assume he doesn't realize this is a humor site" < 1340396756 276145 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the record, it was not me who added it to the site, nor was it me who removed it) < 1340396785 488188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a shame, since I think it looks nice. < 1340396819 345566 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't try to run it with numbers more than 9 < 1340396829 883521 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works /in theory' < 1340396862 884117 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in practise? < 1340396868 822819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Haskell < 1340396870 78968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks david < 1340396895 609080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trying to store 10! in strict unary encoded by functions < 1340396940 843717 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1340396999 787703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1340397086 958253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like something similar to a SK combinator program < 1340397096 169034 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it essentially si < 1340397100 195046 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1340397196 778919 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :S = (<*>), K = pure, unsafeCoerce = I < 1340397286 583944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes I noticed that < 1340397331 893284 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the most core-dumps I've ever caused in one day, writing that < 1340397408 406035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a good way in a C program to make a white noise? < 1340397495 617603 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp ??? < 1340397524 47980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :atrapado: No, I mean in C < 1340397549 607880 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, uniform or gaussian white noise... just some random samples < 1340397575 792367 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take some random samples < 1340397608 870712 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even from rand() or similar < 1340397611 649068 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can I make a random real numbers in a C code in both Windows and UNIX? < 1340397638 12803 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I do not know < 1340397669 659598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like you will have to decide whether you want to use rand() or to embed your own PRNG. < 1340397672 449254 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, do you need quite random of just pseudorandom < 1340397745 47574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make uniformly distributed double-precision floats from rand() e.g. for the [-0.5, 0.5] interval by dividing the output by (double)RAND_MAX and subtracting 0.5. < 1340397748 350293 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0 * ((double) rand() / (double)RANDMAX - 0.5) ??? < 1340397787 967748 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an underscore in the constant. And you only need the latter cast, the rules for finding a common type for / will make it double. < 1340397816 311536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you only need one cast, to be more exact. It could be the first one, too. < 1340397900 713567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pseudorandom is good enough, and it doesn't matter if different implementations differ although it might be best to have one built-in so that the quality does not degrade too much with different implementation. I want to make it for audio, it will then be converted to integers after calculation finish < 1340397955 35179 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio I think rand() is enough < 1340397974 908678 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you want to add a seed < 1340397988 455044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably sure even a regular linear-congruential PRNG that you can do in one line will be good enough for audio purposes, if you want to get the exact same results everywhere. < 1340397989 623571 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for avoiding always the same sequence < 1340398009 362356 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may sound recognoscible < 1340398240 713611 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340398248 311197 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340398456 828729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly curious what it's for, though. < 1340398484 539470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a program to make .IT files. You can load external samples, although I also put a simple synthesizer with a few wave forms (including random); other things such as vibrato, tremolo, ADSR, filter, etc, can be provided by .IT format themself (and this program does include commands to enter those commands into the .IT) < 1340398518 311505 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is called ITMCK and is somewhat based on PPMCK (which is used to make .NSF) < 1340398560 857860 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what it is for. Do you like this? < 1340398565 407927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340398576 822419 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see my turing machine in action visit this TM simulator http://morphett.info/turing/turing.html and the pastebin has the necessary code and explanation http://pastebin.com/XJf4cPyd < 1340398584 435622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that thing again. < 1340398603 214458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have guesseded, I guess. < 1340398610 543638 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like fun < 1340398647 301873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How many programs have you used to write music? Have you written the music on paper? < 1340398680 604331 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive written music < 1340398686 392513 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :never on paper < 1340398730 768524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't write music, so I don't really have an opinion. My IT file format experiences are from a different angle. < 1340398771 772195 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote a lot of music in mpt, but i never studied the file format < 1340398839 393144 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1340398865 341992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Still it would help, if you have written the music perhaps you would have some opinion about the synthesizers and other features of the music < 1340398882 717969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including if there are some things you think MPT lacks, or some features you don't use < 1340399084 719697 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340399084 918714 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1340399233 977559 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw this is a more interesting input "....888.s..c..>.|..8.8.8.8.8.8.8.8.8.8....|...<...888.c.c...c." < 1340399527 387763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When making a computer program which displays the spherical coordinates of the object in space, for the longitudinal angles there can be hours (right ascension and hour angle), astrological signs (ecliptic longitude), and degrees (both). For latitudinal angles degrees are used, but I think another option should be to allow grads for latitudinal angles. < 1340399775 626017 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1340399793 422917 :george97!~george4li@41-184-84-250.rv.ipnxtelecoms.com PART :#esoteric < 1340400056 890923 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340401592 534569 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.136 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340401613 859691 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a white noise change if raised to an exponent? < 1340402158 905570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't. As long as the samples are all uncorrelated and zero-mean and finite-variance, the power spectrum will be flat. < 1340402191 63993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frequency-wise, that is. The amplitude distribution is clearly different. < 1340402198 867933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still a white noise. < 1340402238 293176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, it *might* (though it's perhaps best to ask a music-maker's opinion) be a good idea to provide a pink noise source also, since that's kind of a more natural noise. (White has relatively much stuff at high frequencies.) Even given that it's probably possible to get something pinkish with the IT filters. < 1340402345 279574 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used "L" for square/pulse wave, "N" for saw wave, "V" for triangle wave, letter omitted for sine wave, what letter for white and pink noise? Also how to generate pink noise? < 1340402389 711295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, W and P come to mind. Though the white noise could also be R for random. < 1340402417 57013 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at first using R for white noise, so I could keep it that way. < 1340402431 596455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I can put P for pink noise too < 1340402462 339736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although do you know why I have chosen L, N, and V? Maybe it is clear to you, maybe not.) < 1340402485 463399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it's the letter shapes. < 1340402507 567957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The noises don't probably have so good letters. < 1340402526 676510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is why we select letters based on different reasons for the noise. < 1340402530 266459 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/What/That/ < 1340402571 429537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo. There's two well-known ways to do pink noise; one's to generate white noise and apply a filter that approximates a 1/f frequency response (a third-order one could be close enough) while the second uses K (e.g. K=6) white noise sources, and updates each at different rate. (Basically getting a staircase-like approximation.) < 1340402607 458636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1340402657 804646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this bookmark on it: http://www.firstpr.com.au/dsp/pink-noise/ < 1340402664 424595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1340402884 619118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the discussion is a bit overly DSP-oriented. Like the improvement to the several-white-noise-sources that makes the work/sample constant, which isn't really an issue except in a DSP implementation. < 1340402996 636532 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* I feel more like a code monkey than a developer when I write LSL < 1340403002 974641 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I fix myself? < 1340403009 631701 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't write lsl < 1340403041 550412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to blame the lagginess of the built-in LSL editor >.> < 1340403047 596750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code monkeys are also developers too. < 1340403200 517690 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, use objectopattern synergies or whatever it is that developers stereotypically use < 1340403302 140891 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1340403303 404592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340403421 45970 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340403523 911720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably go with the "economy" filter mentioned there, the http://www.musicdsp.org/files/pink.txt < 1340403694 625904 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already written something and it does multiple white noise updating at different rates (using "R(divider),(amplitude),(exponent)" and then if you have more than one, they are added together) < 1340403829 125604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's very possible too. < 1340404449 575236 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340404712 13967 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DBBB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340405069 291186 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340405499 393618 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340405504 636632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I also haven't thought of yet, is how the table of the effect rows (which will be converted to patterns) should be internally represented. I currently have: typedef struct chan_row { byte note; byte instrument; byte effectid; byte effectpar; byte volumeset; byte continue_flag; /* 0x01=effect 0x02=volume 0x04=zero next effect */ } chan_row; < 1340406022 655079 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340406205 401137 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.231.162 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340406629 206857 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340406886 814274 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-127-153.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1340407208 584099 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.co.uk/ < 1340407353 980351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1340408152 325691 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1340408502 681537 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DBBB.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340408529 777627 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DBBB.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340408707 476403 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DBBB.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1340409021 682849 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340409025 126512 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340409238 944715 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340409255 45221 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric